# Apple iPad and related items



## paolo (Dec 29, 2009)

Looks like the media frenzy has stepped up a gear.

The Apple tablet that has barely left the rumour mill for the best part of a year is now being strongly tipped to be announced at an as yet unbilled event that Apple has booked for January 26th, at the Yerba Buena Arts Center in SF - the place and time of the year where previous significant consumer products have been announced.

It's now gone from the tech blogs to the UK broadsheets. One story circulating is that Steve Jobs is "extremely happy" with the device. Another says that, after three years in development, this is his last big project. And another talks about a particularly novel user interface.

I'm expecting something that will make netbooks look like the dull shrinky-dink laptops that they are. But also that it will be eye wateringly expensive. And that the gap between smartphones and proper laptops isn't such a clear cut segment. Just how many devices do we need?

It's exciting though. Apple usually bring some new ideas. The ones they execute well become pervasive and spur the competion on. The ones they don't execute so well are picked up, reshaped and delivered by other companies. It's all good.

So. Wonder if it really will finally be revealed in just under a month?


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 29, 2009)

it's going to be a macbook air in tablet form

That's it. Beautiful UI no doubt, thinner, lighter and with mediocre battery life, cloud storage and possibly cloud processing too. Which means it'll have a built in 3G connection.

But you're right, it's going to be expensive as hell.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2009)

Looking forward to this, Apple shakes up every market it enters these days, be good to give the ebook reader market a swift kick up the backside too!


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looking forward to this, Apple shakes up every market it enters these days, be good to give the ebook reader market a swift kick up the backside too!



Yep. I think the current book readers are verrry workaday. Let's make a book. On a device. And, err, oh, that's it. The Kindle and its ilk have no vision, no leap forward.


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## kazza007 (Dec 30, 2009)

*mouth watering*



Kid_Eternity said:


> Looking forward to this



+1

and pricepoints suggested ?


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> +1
> 
> and pricepoints suggested ?



Well, logic suggests more than the iPhone, and less than a basic Apple laptop.

But the iPhone's 'real cost' is about £600 when you split it out from the telco charges.

So, £700+? That's eyewatering and then some. Or maybe they will try to hide the cost and sell it via telcos on subscription, like a phone.

For a collage of speculation, see:

http://gizmodo.com/5434566/the-exhaustive-guide-to-apple-tablet-rumors


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Yep. I think the current book readers are verrry workaday. Let's make a book. On a device. And, err, oh, that's it. The Kindle and its ilk have no vision, no leap forward.



Yep apart from the Nook which looks like it's trying to do something interesting. Also the UK isn't served well yet and the iSlate should force the market to mature.


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## Sunray (Dec 30, 2009)

To make it interesting it will have to have a slot for a SIM, but I doubt that it will be sold by telecoms companies.  It may well be offered but I can't see Apple trying an iPhone exclusivity thing this time.

Telecom companies sell phones not computers it's mainly a computer and Apple are very good at selling those.


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## Kanda (Dec 30, 2009)

Hopefully Apple will sell it in conjunction with a PAYG SIM from one of their partners. O2 do an unlimited data PAYG I think.


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## editor (Dec 30, 2009)

I've been banging on about this for ages: this market is wide open for Apple - with their colossal clout, vast resources and iTunes near-monopoly - to clean up with a netbook/eBook Reader/video/media player device.


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## Sunray (Dec 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Hopefully Apple will sell it in conjunction with a PAYG SIM from one of their partners. O2 do an unlimited data PAYG I think.



I get the feeling that thats far too sensible for Apple.

I look forward to seeing what they have come up with, this device has to be thin to make it sensible, iTouch thin max. Even slightly beyond svelte and its dead.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2009)

My price speculation would be £600. Anything above that and you might as well get a Macbook...


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## editor (Dec 30, 2009)

It's got to be cheaper than £600, I reckon. At that price it's barely going to impact on the netbook market, and there's a potentially massive market for a low cost, portable device.
I'd say £450 max, perhaps sweetened with network deals.


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## Sunray (Dec 30, 2009)

editor said:


> It's got to be cheaper than £600, I reckon. At that price it's barely going to impact on the netbook market, and there's a potentially massive market for a low cost, portable device.
> I'd say £450 max, perhaps sweetened with network deals.



Gonna take a massive ad campaign to show people what they can do for them to sign up to a network contract for 35+ a month for 18 months and still pay out 300+ for the device.  If its not pocketable I think its a hard sell unless its super super special.  Literally dripping with cool and many cool unexpected features


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## maldwyn (Dec 30, 2009)

I've got an ipodtouch and a MBP, so why would I want something ibetween?


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## editor (Dec 30, 2009)

maldwyn said:


> I've got an ipodtouch and a MBP, so why would I want something ibetween?


Reading books, watching TV/video on a decent size screen, basic computing stuff (email/browsing) etc etc on an easy to carry package.


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## HobgoblinMan (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm looking forward to the launch of the i-Tits.


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## Pie 1 (Dec 30, 2009)

maldwyn said:


> I've got an ipodtouch and a MBP, so why would I want something ibetween?



So have I (iphone though) & would fucking love some sort of in between device - That MS Courier thing is the closest I've seen to what I'd like & gone 'wow - that looks really good for what I need' (I'd just never buy an MS/Windows product though as my whole professional workflow is Mac).
If Apple pull off something like that, then I'm interested as hell. If it's just a big iPhone/macAir mish mash, I'm not.


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 30, 2009)

I really don't think it's going to be an ereader. It'll have a conventional backlit screen not an e-ink one.

It'll be able to display books for reading but there's no way it's going to get good enough battery life to be an e-reader as we think of them.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2009)

I almost got mildly interested when I heard about it. i-phone too small, web-book too big, WiFi radio too limited .. I'll wait until someone else makes one - I would only want phone connectivity once in a while ...


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I really don't think it's going to be an ereader. It'll have a conventional backlit screen not an e-ink one.
> 
> It'll be able to display books for reading but there's no way it's going to get good enough battery life to be an e-reader as we think of them.



"As we think of them" is a key point though. We don't think of them. Beyond tech heads, eReaders effectively don't exist. I've never seen one.

Battery life expectations for devices have been sunk. We used to have phones that would last a week. Now we charge them every night. One argument says that is the common expectation now. If it'll last a long train or aeroplane journey, that's enough to meet our now much reduced expectation.


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## kyser_soze (Dec 30, 2009)

Time to wheel this one out again then


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

Am I missing something? All the 'good' rumours I've heard is that it's not a tablet, just an eBook reader.


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## tarannau (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm slightly cynical that there's a large enough market for this kind of device unless there's some kind of exciting functionality that I'm missing. Sounds a kind of show-offy inbetween device, although maybe there's something in the execution that'll pull it all together.


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> "As we think of them" is a key point though. We don't think of them. Beyond tech heads, eReaders effectively don't exist. I've never seen one.
> 
> Battery life expectations for devices have been sunk. We used to have phones that would last a week. Now we charge them every night. One argument says that is the common expectation now. If it'll last a long train or aeroplane journey, that's enough to meet our now much reduced expectation.


If you lose the battery life you lose the single greatest thing that made ereaders practical, it would also make reading on it more uncomfortable, although that would vary person to person the vast majority of people prefer e-ink screens to backlit for reading.

The only thing apple really has going for it is itunes. If they can pull a rabit out of the hat on the store side of life then they'll sell millions.


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## editor (Dec 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> "As we think of them" is a key point though. We don't think of them. Beyond tech heads, eReaders effectively don't exist. I've never seen one.


Maybe not here, but in the US eReaders are fucking *HUGE* news:



> Amazon.com, Inc. (NASDAQ:AMZN) today announced that Kindle has become the most gifted item in Amazon's history. On Christmas Day, for the first time ever, customers purchased more Kindle books than physical books. The Kindle Store now includes over 390,000 books and the largest selection of the most popular books people want to read, including New York TimesBestsellersand New Releases.
> 
> "We are grateful to our customers for making Kindle the most gifted item ever in our history," said Jeff Bezos, founder and CEO of Amazon.com. "On behalf of Amazon.com employees around the world, we wish everyone happy holidays and happy reading!"


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> If you lose the battery life you lose the single greatest thing that made ereaders practical, it would also make reading on it more uncomfortable, although that would vary person to person the vast majority of people prefer e-ink screens to backlit for reading.



That's true when you limit your perspective to books.

It's ignoring other things people read though. Magazines and modern newspapers aren't black and white.


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> "As we think of them" is a key point though. We don't think of them. Beyond tech heads, eReaders effectively don't exist. I've never seen one.



Big, big sales over Xmas. I got one. I love it. Currently reading through the 100 best books of all time as voted by Times readers. Starting with A Tale of Two Cities.


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> That's true when you limit your perspective to books.
> 
> It's ignoring other things people read though. Magazines and modern newspapers aren't black and white.



Well, there are colour e-ink screens, but they come in at the £700 mark at the moment.


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

editor said:


> Maybe not here, but in the US eReaders are fucking *HUGE* news:



True

But I'm still not convinced that it will be low power eInk, or that it needs to be.

Daily charging is enough. Irritating, but enough, if you get all the goodies that eInk can't do... video, browsing, fast & nice looking UI.


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## Badgers (Dec 30, 2009)

Damn those rich clever geeks all to hell and whatetever!!! 
Just got my head around a 2G iPhone and now this ouiji board of trickery!!!


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> True
> 
> But I'm still not convinced that it will be low power eInk, or that it needs to be.
> 
> Daily charging is enough. Irritating, but enough, if you get all the goodies that eInk can't do... video, browsing, fast & nice looking UI.


It won't be e-ink. Jobs is rumoured to hate it and it precludes a snazzy UI because of the slow refresh rate.

This is going to cost a bomb. Way over £200 (the point at which i tune out e-readers), probably £400+

As an e-reader that's ridiculous, you can get two different models for under £150 now and the prices are going to fall sub £100 in the next year as volume ramps up. Mark my words, this won't be an e-reader. It'll be a tablet that has an e-reader app while it does everything else too and it'll be priced accordingly. More Air than Phone.


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> It won't be e-ink. Jobs is rumoured to hate it and it precludes a snazzy UI because of the slow refresh rate.
> 
> This is going to cost a bomb. Way over £200 (the point at which i tune out e-readers), probably £400+
> 
> As an e-reader that's ridiculous.



I'd be surprised if it's just an eReader. That would put it in a very isolated spot, in relation to the full iTunes ecosystem.

I'm thinking that it will have all the media stuff, plus books. Something like Ed imagined awhile back. Maybe chuck in 1080P output on HDMI aswell, so it can be a media centre thing too.

[you edited bob... looks like we agree]


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 30, 2009)

But that it's a tablet PC, not an e-reader. Just as the iphone is a phone not an ereader, netbooks are a subset of laptop and not ereader and my desktop is a computer not an ereader. All of them can run reader software but none of them are e-readers.

I doubt they'll market it as an e-reader, because if they did people will look at it and think "what a waste of money". If it doesn't have e-ink then it'll have to be marketed as a portable movie/internet device, something that builds on the itunes store content.

This won't be an ipod moment, the kindle is already too well established for that in the US and outside there the Sony range is pretty predominant. This might be an iphone moment, making it popular to the masses but the price would have to be comparable (higher perhaps but comparable) to existing items. This will be an air moment, funky, very cool but will ship very few units comparatively.


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> But that it's a tablet PC, not an e-reader. Just as the iphone is a phone not an ereader, netbooks are a subset of laptop and not ereader and my desktop is a computer not an ereader. All of them can run reader software but none of them are e-readers.
> 
> I doubt they'll market it as an e-reader, because if they did people will look at it and think "what a waste of money". If it doesn't have e-ink then it'll have to be marketed as a portable movie/internet device, something that builds on the itunes store content.



Yes. We're agreeing I think


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

But you can't make a good enough OLED screen to read for protracted periods of time. This is the issue with that theory. Who knows. It'll be way beyond anything I'm willing to pay anyway. Happy with my 3GS and my eBook reader!


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 30, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> But you can't make a good enough OLED screen to read for protracted periods of time. This is the issue with that theory. Who knows. It'll be way beyond anything I'm willing to pay anyway. Happy with my 3GS and my eBook reader!


Yup. It'll make a crap reader. I will still be able to enjoy my PRS505 knowing it is superior.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 30, 2009)

It won't be an ereader. It won't be a MacBook in tablet form either (unfortunately). You don't spend that long making a tablet if all it is is the same as other people's tablets, which have flopped. I'm not actually sure at all what sort of OS it *will* be running - full os x doesn't seem very likely with that size screen and lack of keyboard, it would make the ui peculiar, but then they might have found a way round that. iPhone OS is limited for a higher power machine and also, the apps just don't exist for new screen sizes, and they want apps to launch with. It puzzles me a lot.


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It won't be an ereader. It won't be a MacBook in tablet form either (unfortunately). You don't spend that long making a tablet if all it is is the same as other people's tablets, which have flopped. I'm not actually sure at all what sort of OS it *will* be running - full os x doesn't seem very likely with that size screen and lack of keyboard, it would make the ui peculiar, but then they might have found a way round that. iPhone OS is limited for a higher power machine and also, the apps just don't exist for new screen sizes, and they want apps to launch with. It puzzles me a lot.



Can they not just double the res and match the aspect ratio of the iPhone to ensure backwards app compatibility?

Isn't it just going to be an equivalent to the high end Archos devices?


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 30, 2009)

If it's just a big media player with a browser I'll eat my mouse. No way.


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 30, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If it's just a big media player with a browser I'll eat my mouse. No way.


I will provide salt and pepper.


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If it's just a big media player with a browser I'll eat my mouse. No way.



What else could it be? Apple don't invent things. They improve on existing products. What other existing products of that size, and that would fit Apple's business model, are there other than media tablets? It'll have a full HD touch screen, backwards app compatability, GPS, decent gfx chip, but I can't imagine too much more.


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

What could be quite neat, OS wise, would be a kind of extended iPhone OS. So it could run iPhone apps in standalone windows, or zoomed up. Not saying this is likely, but it's a thought.

At the very least I'm sure it'll carry over quite a few touch interface ideas.


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If it's just a big media player with a browser I'll eat my mouse. No way.



One could say the iPhone is "just" a media player with a phone and browser. But there were plenty of phones around like that.

In the same vein, the tablet thingy could be "just" what you say, and yet be amazing.

So I don't think you've given yourself a useful mouse eating definition. 

(I'll provide the cutlery)


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 30, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Can they not just double the res and match the aspect ratio of the iPhone to ensure backwards app compatibility?



Yeah, but that only technically ensures backwards compatibility. iPhone apps are designed with a particular physical screen size, mode of holding and ratio to hand size in mind.

So your buttons and text are suddenly four times the size and look all "my first tablet", and all the assumptions that you've made about controlling them - how far a thumb can reach in to the centre of the screen, whether you can easily select between a set of tabs or options - are suddenly wrong. Would cripple many games for instance and make most PIMs hard and annoying to use.

They may be hoping it could get by on media and web functions until people start making proper apps but that seems a bit much. I would like it if it was using OS X but with a heavily-customised Front Row front-end for day to day functions.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> One could say the iPhone is "just" a media player with a phone and browser. But there were plenty of phones around like that.



One could say that, but one would be missing the point of the iPhone somewhat.

Media playing and browsing will certainly be present of course, and important functions (just like they are on the iPhone).


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2009)

editor said:


> It's got to be cheaper than £600, I reckon. At that price it's barely going to impact on the netbook market, and there's a potentially massive market for a low cost, portable device.
> I'd say £450 max, perhaps sweetened with network deals.



I'm not sure it has to be, the iPhone is pricier than most smartphone and it still shook up the market selling tons...


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm not sure it has to be, the iPhone is pricier than most smartphone and it still shook up the market selling tons...



iPhone isn't really any pricier than equivalent devices. Not by much, anyway. My Touch HD was about £50 cheaper than an iPhone 3G was at the time.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 30, 2009)

It's pretty straightforward.

eBooks - great for black and white reading, long battery life. Pocket Size, if you have big pockets. Great if you fancy reading the complete works of Dickens on the train.

What I suspect would be more successful however is a tablet, with full touch control  (a la iPhone) with colour graphics, downloadable media (magazines, newspapers, full websites) with full integration with browsers, media players, familiar interface that people can browse photos on, watch movies on, surf web etc etc. Whilst you can do most of this on a laptop, its always a bit of a pain having to rest the computing part on your lap and angle the screen. The logical next step is to remove the physical keyboard, cd-rom drive, large storage and slim it down into one touch screen tablet. As Ed says, Apple could clean up with iTunes and their Apps all sorted and currently monopolising the market.

This was my (very crudely) envisinged idea of what the Amazon Kindle should be more like if its to take any significant foothold. It needs full colour graphics, and it should be more of a media tablet - not just an eBook reader:







Obviously, Apple can do much better than this - and my hunch is that they'll create something very iPhone like in the design and interface which will look way better than this. But, I'm sure it won't be long before the mainstream media get on board and within a few years people will be buying their copies of The Sun and The Times on a tablet, wirelessly, from anywhere. You can bet Murdoch will be on it like a shot.


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 30, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> This was my (very crudely) envisinged idea of what the Amazon Kindle should be more like if its to take any significant foothold. It needs full colour graphics, and it should be more of a media tablet - not just an eBook reader:



Yeah, but you can't do that with e-ink. And without e-ink, it's not gonna be much of a reader.

They're two different devices.


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, but you can't do that with e-ink. And without e-ink, it's not gonna be much of a reader.



What you see as a virtue, I see as a limitation.

It's obviously subjective, but I'd say a device that does lots of things would be more popular than something that only does one thing, albeit very well.

All things being equal of course. Which they won't be. Price rather than purpose-specific display technology is where Kindley things will score.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 30, 2009)

I don't even think they'll go directly after the e-book market.

They'll just create a device that is able to display books but it won't be the core business of the device. It'll do apps, web pages, video, graphics - just like a macbook. But in a more sexy way with a touch keyboard and pictures you can resize with your fingers. Just like the iphone.

Let's see if I end up quoting myself on this in a few weeks saying 'look I told you!'


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## Sunray (Dec 30, 2009)

The iTunes integration ensures it will do everything on iTunes or that would be Apple making a device they can't have a full iTunes revenue stream from, which I can't see would please Steve Jobs or the share holders?

The killer feature will be its portability because at that price I can buy a pretty decent fully featured but fairly non-portable laptop. Being able to cart them about is a cheap laptops only claim to portability.  Need to go up a few notches in price to get laptops that are both powerful and light. 

They are saying 7" and 9.3".   I think 9.3" is too big unless its truly wafer thin, and when I say thin we're going to have to be talking one of the thinnest devices of its kind ever made.


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm roughly with you on that.

One way of thinking about devices is not NetBook, or Phone, or PC, but about usage.


Always Carry...

There is the device you always carry. To the pub, or even to the corner shop. It's most important feature is voice calls. But it's your bog standard music player too.


Often Carry

Something you can sling in a day bag/pack. Not a big lump. Something as thin as the magazine you might pack, or the paperback. Not kilos of lump, with big external charger and all that. You can still get it out on the bus or whatever. Watch vids, do some browsing. And of course listen to music or do email. Or even read a book or a newspaper.


Occasionally Carry

It's bit of a lump, but you want a real PC. Maybe Microsoft Office, or photo or audio editing, or... well, you want a real PC. And it can also be your home PC. As it is, for more and more people.


It's this split that makes me question netbooks. If you want a proper laptop, they aren't really any good. It's bit like taking a Range Rover, and then saying - for our city runabout car - we'll build another Range Rover, but with smaller wheels, smaller engine and smaller doors. A mini Range Rover. When something totally different would be better.


Of course, there isn't really an "often carry" device that I'm thinking of at present. And maybe it's a device too far. But I think that's what Apple will be aiming at.


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## Throbbing Angel (Dec 30, 2009)

aaaaaaaaaanyway

what about the OLPC tablet?


OLPC unveils slimline tablet PC


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## paolo (Dec 30, 2009)

Throbbing Angel said:


> aaaaaaaaaanyway
> 
> what about the OLPC tablet?
> 
> ...



"So far the XO has been distributed to more than 1.4 million children in 35 countries."

Impressive number... is it true though?


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 31, 2009)

Throbbing Angel said:


> aaaaaaaaaanyway
> 
> what about the OLPC tablet?
> 
> ...



it's vapourware


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## paolo (Dec 31, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> it's vapourware



Thought so.

It only takes a quick Flickr search to find out if an object really exists.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 31, 2009)

Well, they do say "available in 2012" - typical BBC article headline.

The original OLPCs, I dunno how much they've actually been distributed and used in practice. I suspect not nearly as much as was envisaged. The OS had some really nice ideas behind it mind.


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## editor (Dec 31, 2009)

The problem with netbooks is that although they're small enough to carry around with you all day, have excellent battery lives and are up to most laptop tasks, they're awkward to use. Who'd want to read a paper or a book on a netbook when a tablet like the Kindle is far more comfortable? Watching movies or playing music would be far better on a slate/tablet form too.


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## Sunray (Dec 31, 2009)

Throbbing Angel said:


> aaaaaaaaaanyway
> 
> what about the OLPC tablet?
> 
> ...



Very noble device but on here nobody cares.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2010)

Looks highly unlikely to me - a projector?! - but here's the latest leak/fake/pile of bollocks:






http://www.newlaunches.com/archives...iltin_projector_are_you_kidding_we_dont_k.php


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## ChrisFilter (Jan 4, 2010)

Not using SSD would be a massive fail.


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## Crispy (Jan 4, 2010)

Internal apple documents set in Arial? Not likely 

Given that iphone devs have said they've been told to prepare 'full screen' - ie non-resolution limited - versions of their apps, I expect nothing more fancy than a large format ipod touch. Same sort of interface, same app model, same input schemes. At most 5 hardware buttons. No external ports beyond a dock and headphone ports. Wifi, _maybe_ 3G. Great for watching rented movies and TV through itunes. Great for the web. Don't expect to be watching your divx rips on it though.


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## stupid dogbot (Jan 4, 2010)

That's *so* fake.


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## Sunray (Jan 4, 2010)

It has to have 3G and it has to be as thin or thinner than the iTouch or Apple might as well pour them into the land fill.  Without these two things, its of little interest.  

Who wants an internet device for round the house only? 
Who wants a big chunky device?


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## editor (Jan 4, 2010)

Have you seen this eReader that's just been announced? It shows how fast technology is moving and might provide a pointer to where Apple may be going.












http://www.wirefresh.com/skiff-ereader-looks-incredible-with-huge-luscious-display/


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## Sunray (Jan 4, 2010)

That's the sort of thin I'm talking about.  That look pretty cool.

This has caught my eye of recent times, not only thin but flexible.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2009/12/plastic_logics_long_journey_to.html

Wonder if it any good?  They have signed up some big newspapers for it already. Released this Thursday.


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## paolo (Jan 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> That's the sort of thin I'm talking about.  That look pretty cool.
> 
> This has caught my eye of recent times, not only thin but flexible.
> 
> ...



That is sooooo not happening anytime soon.

All we saw was something like laminated card. 

C'mon Sunray. Shape up. You're a proper developer. Get your brain back. Stop browsing a possible future edition of the Innovations catalogue.


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## Sunray (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm not its being released in two days time at the CES show.


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## paolo (Jan 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I'm not its being released in two days time at the CES show.



Fair dos. I'm still sceptical though. Will be interesting to see what they actually show.


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## kyser_soze (Jan 5, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> That is sooooo not happening anytime soon.
> 
> All we saw was something like laminated card.
> 
> C'mon Sunray. Shape up. You're a proper developer. Get your brain back. Stop browsing a possible future edition of the Innovations catalogue.





Sunray said:


> I'm not its being released in two days time at the CES show.





paolo999 said:


> Fair dos. I'm still sceptical though. Will be interesting to see what they actually show.



I agree with the comment made by the last poster on the replies bit:




			
				BBC wesbite respondee said:
			
		

> I think Plastic Logic have shot themselves in the foot by not making it flexible. That would be what would make it stand out amongst the larger newspaper style eReaders



Surely the big USP of this tech is that it's bendy&foldable? What's to distinguish it from the rest of the pack?

Tech looks great tho - I remember reading about these guys in an Economist article way back in the day and thinking 'Plug it into a phone and you could have everything in front of you, interactive ads (I was in media buying at the time), updated newspapers, TV&movies, all in a roll up tube'.


----------



## paolo (Jan 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I agree with the comment made by the last poster on the replies bit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We're going way off on a tangent here. These displays are soo far off the Apple ecosystem. They'll be monochrome, slow refresh rates, and if it's a "laminated card", where do the speakers go? And the battery? And the chipset? And the camera?

And you can forget foldable. There's been no indication that foldable will happen in the near future. We didn't get flying cars in the year 2000, and we're not getting foldable displays in 2010.


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2010)

I really can't see Apple producing a monochrome job, and any large colour display - even OLED - is going to suck up battery power.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If it's just a big media player with a browser I'll eat my mouse. No way.



if it's much more I'd be surprised...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/31/islate_control/


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I really can't see Apple producing a monochrome job, and any large colour display - even OLED - is going to suck up battery power.



If they can get it near enough laptop standards then it'll be good enough to sell I'm sure. Advantage with a bigger screen is that the back should be able to support a bigger battery and thus longer power charges (in theory).

Also, if processing is cut down and hard drive solid state with relatively few moving parts. It could be a reasonable charge length.


----------



## paolo (Jan 5, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> If they can get it near enough laptop standards then it'll be good enough to sell I'm sure. Advantage with a bigger screen is that the back should be able to support a bigger battery and thus longer power charges (in theory).
> 
> Also, if processing is cut down and hard drive solid state with relatively few moving parts. It could be a reasonable charge length.



Assuming it will play films, I'd expect it to have 3 hours as a minimum.

My iPhone 2G could do over 6 hours when I first got it. In theory then, a tablet that is basically a scaled up version should do the same. Which will be passable if one accepts the 'nightly charge' MO.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2010)

Does anyone on here actually want the iSlate? I mean it sounds nice in a geeky kinda way but really do we need yet another gadget to lug about with us?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2010)

I don't want one, but then Mr. Jobs hasn't greased my desire glands yet.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 6, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Does anyone on here actually want the iSlate? I mean it sounds nice in a geeky kinda way but really do we need yet another gadget to lug about with us?



I'll probably get one if it's any good


----------



## tarannau (Jan 6, 2010)

yes, but you're a keen sucker early adopter for tech products in the main Kanda

I don't have the desire myself. £600 would go for a second laptop for the better half myself, but let's see if there are more tricks up the slate's sleeves that may persuade.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

If it's priced at $1,000 - as currently rumoured - then Kindle and a slew of cheapo netbook makers will breathe a sigh of relief. I can't justify that kind of money on a glorified media player.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I'll probably get one if it's any good



Why?



editor said:


> If it's priced at $1,000 - as currently rumoured - then Kindle and a slew of cheapo netbook makers will breathe a sigh of relief. I can't justify that kind of money on a glorified media player.



Indeed, I've got a sneaking feeling this is going to be the Mac Air all over again, lovely looking machine, but far too expensive and not really a must buy. One for the uber wealthy/Apple lovers only...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 6, 2010)

If it could act as a feasible replacement for a laptop then it would be tempting. I've considered getting a netbook simply for all the times when Im out of town and dont want to travel around with my bulky macbook just to get online away from home.

If it was a beefed up iphone type slate which could to run a browser, office, skype, itunes and sync to a bluetooth keyboard/mouse then I see no reason why it couldnt replace my macbook altogether. Storage would have to be cloud based, or external and a seperate DVD drive would be required, but it would be a lot more convenient to cart about.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 6, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why?



I have an iPhone and I don't like carrying my Macbook Pro around, depends where it falls inbetween really... I've thought about netbooks but am waiting to see what this delivers.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> If it was a beefed up iphone type slate which could to run a *browser*, _office_, *skype*, *itunes* and _sync to a bluetooth keyboard/mouse_


*Yes* and _No_ those, I am willing to bet.


> then I see no reason why it couldnt replace my macbook altogether. Storage would have to be cloud based, or external and a seperate DVD drive would be required, but it would be a lot more convenient to cart about.


No external DVD drive. It'll require a PC or Mac to sync with. A 'companion' product, not standalone; and compromised accordingly.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> If it could act as a feasible replacement for a laptop then it would be tempting. I've considered getting a netbook simply for all the times when Im out of town and dont want to travel around with my bulky macbook just to get online away from home.


The problem is that without a proper hardware keyboard, it's *never* going to replace a laptop for any thing more than casual emailing/browsing.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> The problem is that without a proper hardware keyboard, it's *never* going to replace a laptop for any thing more than casual emailing/browsing.



Roll-up keyboard in ya pocket?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Roll-up keyboard in ya pocket?


Those things aren't much better than touchscreens. No key travel or other haptic feedback.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> The problem is that without a proper hardware keyboard, it's *never* going to replace a laptop for any thing more than casual emailing/browsing.



Sure but how easy would it be to just make it compatible with a wireless keyboard and mouse for you to mount it on a screen stand and hey presto you've got something very similar to an iMac.

Desktop device at home. Casual browser on the move.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sure but how easy would it be to just make it compatible with a wireless keyboard and mouse for you to mount it on a screen stand and hey presto you've got something very similar to an iMac.
> 
> Desktop device at home. Casual browser on the move.


Way too much faffing. What happens if you need to send off a long email on the move (which surely is the whole point of a laptop)?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 6, 2010)

laptops are more the default home computer of today - it seems a little pointless trying to claim that the primary purchasing decision is mainly based around the ability to send an email on the move. Most of us probably crave the ability to post FaceTwittering inanities on the sofa whilst shovelling burritos in our gob more.



I'd be more convinced by the modular computing thing if Apple hadn't recently released the magic mouse and newer keyboards. Could be an opening salvo I guess - the technology's well advanced for wireless mac bits, from multitouch mice through online backup and dvd sharing


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sure but how easy would it be to just make it compatible with a wireless keyboard and mouse for you to mount it on a screen stand and hey presto you've got something very similar to an iMac.
> 
> Desktop device at home. Casual browser on the move.


Easy enough, but the current incarnation of Apple won't do it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Way too much faffing. What happens if you need to send off a long email on the move (which surely is the whole point of a laptop)?



Well you'd probably still be better off with a laptop. I agree it could never be all things to all problems. But they wouldn't sell it in like that I think.

*hazards a guess* They'd sell it to the fanboys as the ultimate device for reading and looking at things on the move and that you can sync to your iphone, download today's edition of the LA Times for example, browse you your favorite blogs and webfeeds, or read that subscription magazine you bought (on iTunes no doubt) and it would be much better than those dullard kindle and sony e-books with their monochrome façade and gimmicky design. And by the way, it also syncs with your mighty mouse and apple bluetooth keyboard and time machine so you can have a more enhanced experience at home as well as a portable solution on the move.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

tarannau said:


> laptops are more the default home computer of today - it seems a little pointless trying to claim that the primary purchasing decision is mainly based around the ability to send an email on the move. Most of us probably crave the ability to post FaceTwittering inanities on the sofa whilst shovelling burritos in our gob more.


Phones do that perfectly well. Not sure why I'd need a huge slate to do it any better. If it can't fit in my pocket then I expect this device to be better at some tasks than my phone.

The Magic Mouse is a classic case of Apple over-design. Pretty but pointlessly epxpensive and not particularly good for what you're paying.


----------



## paolo (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm not convinced about this picture of an established field of netbooks that Apple has to compete with, or it will fail.

It's not going to be a netbook. Keyboards aren't the be all and end all of devices. When the iPhone was introduced, a fair few pundits obsessed over this. They said it could never compete. Punters in their tens of millions didn't give a fig.

And it's not as if netbooks are pervasive either. Most people have a laptop. Hardly any also buy a slightly smaller one.

Also, it's a given that the Apple product will not be priced at the same level as netbooks either, which - from a software & UI point of view - have not advanced personal computing one single jot.

What it will share with netbooks is it not being in an 'essential' market. Everyone needs a phone, everyone needs a PC (or access to one). The middle ground is a niche.

It's that, more than anything else, that will limit sales.

Price and keyboards are a distraction.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It's not going to be a netbook. Keyboards aren't the be all and end all of devices.


They have been selling by the absolute bucketload though, completely outselling laptops.



> It's been a hot year for Netbooks, but not so much for the rest of the portable PC market.
> 
> Netbook sales are likely to hit $11.4 billion this year, a 72 percent rise from last year, thanks to a 103 percent leap in shipments, according to a new report from DisplaySearch.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10421063-1.html


----------



## Belushi (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm going to get a netbook in the spring as my old Dell laptop is on its last legs.  They're cheap; portable and I will only be using it for surfing and writing.


----------



## spacemonkey (Jan 6, 2010)

Will they be announcing a new range of Macbook Pro's as well.

I want to buy one, but Mac-rumours is telling me to wait, as a new range is overdue.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

Thing is - and I've been banging on about this for ages - there's loads of scope to improve the things or offer tweaked alternatives. A tablet one with a pull out screen would be ace because it would be a lot easier to watch movies/surf the web/play music without fiddling about with a traditional style lid.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2010)

I know what you mean. There's a new netbook coming out with one of those swivel screens to turn it into a tablet, but something about that 'single, multi-pivot' hinge design that seems like a massive bodge and screaming to break easily. I'd like to slide or fold in one single motion from notebook to tablet and I don't know how that can be done in a non-clunky way.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 6, 2010)

spacemonkey said:


> Will they be announcing a new range of Macbook Pro's as well.
> 
> I want to buy one, but Mac-rumours is telling me to wait, as a new range is overdue.



Probably not at the same event, but new processor must be on their way into the unibody MBPs soon.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 6, 2010)

I thought this was nifty, e-ink on one side, colour screen on the other:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/01/hands-on-with-entourage-netbook-e-reader-combo/


----------



## paolo (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> They have been selling by the absolute bucketload though, completely outselling laptops.



The article you linked to says just 20%.

"Our long-term outlook is that the mini-note share of the notebook PC market has stabilized, and will remain at approximately 20 percent through 2011 before starting to erode,"


----------



## Sunray (Jan 6, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Probably not at the same event, but new processor must be on their way into the unibody MBPs soon.



It probably is this event.  

Everyone expecting a new product but they are only going to release a new range of Mac's


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2010)

Sunray said:


> It probably is this event.
> 
> Everyone expecting a new product but they are only going to release a new range of Mac's


Nah, there's too much circumstantial evidence this time round.


----------



## g force (Jan 7, 2010)

spacemonkey said:


> Will they be announcing a new range of Macbook Pro's as well.
> 
> I want to buy one, but Mac-rumours is telling me to wait, as a new range is overdue.



If you want one get one...unles you're a detail obssesive or need a boost in power the new MBP's won't offer anything more than a new processor. The unibody design is still pretty new so don't expect a design change, and the OS is also not due for a massive change.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Nah, there's too much circumstantial evidence this time round.


I'd say it's definitely coming, but I wouldn't put money down on it being announced this month.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 7, 2010)

g force said:


> If you want one get one...unles you're a detail obssesive or need a boost in power the new MBP's won't offer anything more than a new processor. The unibody design is still pretty new so don't expect a design change, and the OS is also not due for a massive change.



I'd wager they're largely dependent on Intel. I suspect that the MBPs will be the first, or amongst the first, to feature new quad cores with lower power consumption - the current i5 and i7s are a little greedy for laptops if anything

I'd be surprised if the slate or whatever it's called isn't announced at this event, even if production lags a little behind


----------



## magneze (Jan 7, 2010)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8444672.stm

Microsoft & HP beat them to it ... if indeed Apple was going to introduce a slate PC ...


----------



## tarannau (Jan 7, 2010)

Nobody's claiming that Apple are going to be first to the tablet or slate market, are they? There have been tablets and modbooks for ages, albeit clumsy looking in comparison.

The only thing that really proves is that Microsoft still doesn't get it. The market's clearly not crying out for another attempt at a MS Tablet with a crappy variation of Windows running badly on it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 7, 2010)

magneze said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8444672.stm
> 
> Microsoft & HP beat them to it ... if indeed Apple was going to introduce a slate PC ...



Interesting how that HP device had a cradle/dock thing.

I'm positive Apple will also sell this in also as a device you can dock at home and be a lite home computer when coupled with a wireless keyboard and mouse.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Interesting how that HP device had a cradle/dock thing.
> 
> I'm positive Apple will also sell this in also as a device you can dock at home and be a lite home computer when coupled with a wireless keyboard and mouse.


I have a tenner here that's yours if this is true.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> The only thing that really proves is that Microsoft still doesn't get it. The market's clearly not crying out for another attempt at a MS Tablet with a crappy variation of Windows running badly on it.


No, but Microsoft's Courier looks fucking amazing with an interface that's streets ahead of anything else.






http://www.wirefresh.com/courier-microsofts-secret-tablet-project/


----------



## Xanadu (Jan 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Nobody's claiming that Apple are going to be first to the tablet or slate market, are they? There have been tablets and modbooks for ages, albeit clumsy looking in comparison.
> 
> The only thing that really proves is that Microsoft still doesn't get it. The market's clearly not crying out for another attempt at a MS Tablet with a crappy variation of Windows running badly on it.


Microsoft Courier looks pretty good though.  It's a shame that wasn't in the announcement.


----------



## Xanadu (Jan 7, 2010)

editor said:


> No, but Microsoft's Courier looks fucking amazing with an interface that's streets ahead of anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


snap


----------



## c01642 (Jan 7, 2010)

How about the 2002 version from compaq.

http://community.winsupersite.com/b...osoft-to-announce-tablet-pc-before-apple.aspx


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2010)

It's been a long, long time since Apple was 'first' in a particular market segment. They just have a knack of polishing core functions to an irresistable shine and solving the little problems that nobody else could see or thought were inconsequential.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 7, 2010)

Yep. And, to a large extent, it's largely the same reason why i wouldn't bet on the Courier being a coherent, focussed product for a little while. Looks great in prospect mind.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2010)

editor said:


> No, but Microsoft's Courier looks fucking amazing with an interface that's streets ahead of anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If that worked the way the demo vid showed it'd be amazing.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Yep. And, to a large extent, it's largely the same reason why i wouldn't bet on the Courier being a coherent, focussed product for a little while. Looks great in prospect mind.


Looks great, but it sings all and dances all before it's even born. This is MS's curse of development - trying to do everything in one go means you do nothing well enough.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's been a long, long time since Apple was 'first' in a particular market segment. They just have a knack of polishing core functions to an irresistable shine and solving the little problems that nobody else could see or thought were inconsequential.


Just wait until they nick the Palm webOS's superb multi tasking for the iPhone and big it up as the latest, greatest, must-have innovation! Mind you, they'll have a job outpolishing the Palm in this regard as it's beautifully implemented.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2010)

I think they'll have difficulty implementing that, actually. The hardware and software are both designed for one app at a time. Multi-tasking existing iphone apps will take more CPU and memory than the current models have. Sure, a new model with extra RAM and power could do it, but then they would fragment the app market - "only for multi-tasking iphone" apps and so on. It could happen, but I doubt it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2010)

I can see them allowing a restricted number of non Apple apps allowed to run in the background rather than MT like the Pre...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I think they'll have difficulty implementing that, actually. The hardware and software are both designed for one app at a time. Multi-tasking existing iphone apps will take more CPU and memory than the current models have. Sure, a new model with extra RAM and power could do it, but then they would fragment the app market - "only for multi-tasking iphone" apps and so on. It could happen, but I doubt it.



How so? If you brought out a new model with the grunt to run more apps, then you add a method of switching in the OS...older models can run the same apps, just only one at a time.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> How so? If you brought out a new model with the grunt to run more apps, then you add a method of switching in the OS...older models can run the same apps, just only one at a time.


But those old apps are not multi-tasking aware. I'm no expert in these things, but there must be some complications there? I suppose something could be bodged together. How do the jailbroken iphones handle it? (I think they have MT)


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jan 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'd wager they're largely dependent on Intel. I suspect that the MBPs will be the first, or amongst the first, to feature new quad cores with lower power consumption - the current i5 and i7s are a little greedy for laptops if anything
> 
> I'd be surprised if the slate or whatever it's called isn't announced at this event, even if production lags a little behind



Hang on are we saying that apple will be putting out quad core mac pros with the islate? In the next month or so? Cas I could go for one of them.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I think they'll have difficulty implementing that, actually. The hardware and software are both designed for one app at a time. Multi-tasking existing iphone apps will take more CPU and memory than the current models have. Sure, a new model with extra RAM and power could do it, but then they would fragment the app market - "only for multi-tasking iphone" apps and so on. It could happen, but I doubt it.


If Apple don't introduce proper multi tasking soon, the iPhone is going to look horribly dated as apps on other platforms make use of the considerable usability advantages offered.

It's already possible on jailbroken iPhones with the ProSwitcher app - here's a Pre-themed version in action -


----------



## Zabo (Jan 8, 2010)

Apple need to be careful in the tablet market. They had the iphone all to themselves until recently. There are lots of tablets on the way and I can see Apple getting a well deserved fuck over for selling over priced stuff. My money is waiting for the Microsoft Courier. That will steal the show. Only thing is, I don't know why MS have released the new tablet with HP. Seems very odd?

And don't forget Dell have the Nexus almost ready to go. With a 5" screen it is pocketable. A nice piece of kit and probably meets Dell's high standards.


Uptodate pictures from the CES

http://www.unwiredview.com/2010/01/07/dell-shows-off-android-tablet-with-5-inch-display-maybe-for-att/


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2010)

I got excited about an Apple Tablet way too long ago, before the rumours really got started, so I had to try to forget about it for ages to avoid going insane with impatience.

I have high hopes. Im a big fan of the iphone UI and expect Apple's usual sleekness of design will go well with the tablet format. If they cant make the tablet format work, then I dont know who else can - this does remain a possibility I suppose due to the devices size, it wont go in a pocket, and cost could be an issue.

Ive wanted a decent tablet all century. I tried a tablet pc and a umpc, and it was a bad bad experience. The tech was not quite ripe enough and the clunkiness spoiled the experience, although I liked the form factor. Reasonable screen, battery life, nice multitouch, nice hd video, pretty good 3d should all now be possible.

Its hard for me to overstate how important this stuff will be for me because since I came to hate my day job many years ago, Ive wanted to develop things for tablets instead, but the right device has not come along.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jan 8, 2010)

Zabo said:


> Apple need to be careful in the tablet market. They had the iphone all to themselves until recently. There are lots of tablets on the way and I can see Apple getting a well deserved fuck over for selling over priced stuff. My money is waiting for the Microsoft Courier. That will steal the show. Only thing is, I don't know why MS have released the new tablet with HP. Seems very odd?


You're dreaming. The iphone never had any technological edge over any of it's competition. It's sole and killer advantage was UI.

These tablet are just more refreshes of a product line / idea that's never worked, in no small part because the UI sucked. If these tablets are just based on Win7 then they're going to be little more successful than previous attempts.


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2010)

Zabo said:


> Apple need to be careful in the tablet market. They had the iphone all to themselves until recently. There are lots of tablets on the way and I can see Apple getting a well deserved fuck over for selling over priced stuff. My money is waiting for the Microsoft Courier. That will steal the show. Only thing is, I don't know why MS have released the new tablet with HP. Seems very odd?



I get your points about Apple but I dont share the faith that Microsoft will deliver the killer device - they failed badly in the past, put a lot of effort into trying to popularise these form factors but they messed up their software design in a big way, it was crap, just some fairly weak addons to the desktop OS experience. Im sure they have learnt from that, and maybe they can become one of the few companies that actually works out what Apple does well with its products and copy it well, there are sometimes some signs of that but then they revert to form. The Courier looks like it could be an attempt to be seen as different to Apple, not merely immitating them badly but Im certainly not surprised that the recent stuff showcased HP etc devices rather than their own thing. That courier may never end up as a real product, or it could have been a controlled leak to judge interest in certain aspects of its design for market research purposes. Still even the HP device lacks detail at this stage so I guess its all just marketing games, trying to steal some of Apples thunder as the hype whirls around about the apple tablet.


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> You're dreaming. The iphone never had any technological edge over any of it's competition. It's sole and killer advantage was UI.



The multitouch screen was a technological edge, and later the app store was seen as a bit of a revolution. You are right that it was the UI that really did it, and to make the UI sweet they relied on hardware-accelerated 3d and a multitouch screen that responds well and feels good. They didnt invent these technologies, but it still boggles my mind that so few others have been able to use this tech so effectively.


----------



## paolo (Jan 8, 2010)

I suspect the Courier video was a simply a concept demonstration. Possibly even created out of house, e.g. By an ad agency.

Elsewhere in this thread there's been gushing over photoshop mock ups of products.

Back to earth people!


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2010)

I'm not really bothered by the iSlate.  

I really can't see what they can offer me that I'd want to pay a stack of cash for when I already have my iPhone, even if its a little battered perhaps a little small in comparison. 

Its going to have to be something truly world beating to even get my attention.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 8, 2010)

If Apple can revolutionise the market and make them small and light enough I'd be interested and go back to using a phone that just make calls and sends txts.

The screen on my Touch HD is almost as big as they come and I often find myself wanting a bigger one. A separate device may be the way forward.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2010)

It's got to have 3g and wifi to make any impression on anyone. Lack of constant connectivity is just criminal these days. 

I know I don't want a large format phone but some people might want the features a larger size device can offer. 

Like I say I'm waiting to see what apple can do in this space but I really can't see what they can possibly offer over my phone that would get my wallet out?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2010)

It's always been a tricky thing to get right. The idea of a tablet computer is one of those ones that feels right, but has big problems fitting into the existing computer market. If you need a bag to carry it, then you may as well take a laptop. If it has no keyboard, then it may as well be a phone.
It'll have to do something truly exceptional to succeed, or do things that a laptop already does, but better. Not an easy task.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 9, 2010)

A quick look at iTunes tells you what it'll do as a base standard, Apple aren't going to produce a device that can't do all the things that iTunes does, they make hard cash out of it.

I'm assuming that they are going to add in books (if and) when this gets released.  I'm still totally meh about it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 9, 2010)

What if they got hand writing rec properly sorted? I can type faster then I can write if I have a proper keyboard, but can write a lot faster then I can type on phone and on-screen keyboards and it suits the tablet form factor.


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## maldwyn (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm with Sunray and his portability mantra. I'd rather stick with my ipodtouch for when I'mout and about, macbookpro when away from home and mac-mini/ACD for telly watching.


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## Sunray (Jan 9, 2010)

I've just download Engadgets full HD video demo of the Mirasol display. 

If the Apple tablet has one of those displays then, i'm starting to twitch, its lower power than e-ink but full motion video and higher resolution than e-ink, nearly rivalling a magazine.

45mb vid is here http://podcasts.aolcdn.com/engadget/videos/ces10/Mirasol_1080pFULL.mov 

Right click and save as..


----------



## mitochondria (Jan 9, 2010)

out of curiosity - anyone tried archos 9? 

I think display sector is growing quicker than computer industry aggregate and new inventions in display/touchscreen tech will shape next year or two of computing. I would really like to see dual display LED/e-ink + new standard of touchscreen. I played a bit with Sony reader and I really liked e-ink. 

Whoever gets this sort of thing right and on a massive scale, wins.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2010)

archos are historically appalling for reliability and quality. can't imagine they've improved any


----------



## Badgers (Jan 11, 2010)




----------



## Crispy (Jan 11, 2010)

nice mockup, but it will not be regular OSX, that's for sure


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 11, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I've just download Engadgets full HD video demo of the Mirasol display.
> 
> If the Apple tablet has one of those displays then, i'm starting to twitch, its lower power than e-ink but full motion video and higher resolution than e-ink, nearly rivalling a magazine.
> 
> ...



Oh, wow. That's very impressive.


----------



## elbows (Jan 11, 2010)

Crispy said:


> nice mockup, but it will not be regular OSX, that's for sure



Yeah probably not, especially as the app store success gives them reason to want another platform where they control app distribution.

Still if the price of the tablet is high enough, and considering that netbooks taking off are a reason apple looked at devices with screens of this size, there is some pressure from users not to make the device too dumbed-down. I am very keen to see whether it ends up resembling a souped-up iphone OS or a cutdown OS-X. And I wonder what UI stuff they have up their sleeve, there are some rumours about a 3D aspect to the UI but we shall see.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 11, 2010)

Crispy said:


> archos are historically appalling for reliability and quality. can't imagine they've improved any



Unionised French labour for you.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 12, 2010)

http://mashable.com/2010/01/12/apple-tablet-oled-screen-2/


----------



## Crispy (Jan 12, 2010)

EDIT: ok, I got it


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2010)

I can still see how it'll work. Absolutely. 

People are used to reading papers on their phones now, but I'd much rather read my morning paper on a larger slate than my phone. I'd even be happy to pay for a daily digital newspaper delivery and Apple are perfectly positioned to offer such a service.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 12, 2010)

editor said:


> I can still see how it'll work. Absolutely.
> 
> People are used to reading papers on their phones now, but I'd much rather read my morning paper on a larger slate than my phone. I'd even be happy to pay for a daily digital newspaper delivery and Apple are perfectly positioned to offer such a service.



I would agree and have no issue that its a nice idea and could be a winner in the future.  My issue is with cost rather than technology and the cost is going to be high.

I look at the price, look at my iPhone then continue to muddle along in a less than perfect world.


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I would agree and have no issue that its a nice idea and could be a winner in the future.  My issue is with cost rather than technology and the cost is going to be high.
> 
> I look at the price, look at my iPhone then continue to muddle along in a less than perfect world.


For sure: if Apple stick one of their ludicrous premium price tags on it, I'l just get the cheaper (and just as good) PC/Linux version which will inevitably follow.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 12, 2010)

That Plastic Logic Que looks great, its super thin and light with a nice touch screen, but the fully connected version is $799 in the US. 

The technology is very good and well thought out, but the price makes its nearly irrelevant.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 22, 2010)




----------



## gabi (Jan 22, 2010)

That's a thing of beauty


----------



## Crispy (Jan 22, 2010)

It's a mockup, but 'sources say' it's remarkably close to the real thing, just missing the Home button.


----------



## gabi (Jan 22, 2010)

How the hell are you sposed to type on it tho if you dont have a flat surface handy?


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

gabi said:


> That's a thing of beauty


Just begs to be sat on.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 22, 2010)

gabi said:


> How the hell are you sposed to type on it tho if you dont have a flat surface handy?


This is my major worry


----------



## paolo (Jan 22, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's a mockup, but 'sources say' it's remarkably close to the real thing, just missing the Home button.



I assume they just mean the case. That's very easy to guess at. It's the software where the real fun will be.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2010)

gabi said:


> How the hell are you sposed to type on it tho if you dont have a flat surface handy?



On your lap? Why would you want to type two handed while walking?


----------



## paolo (Jan 22, 2010)

gabi said:


> How the hell are you sposed to type on it tho if you dont have a flat surface handy?



Same as a laptop, no


----------



## magneze (Jan 22, 2010)

Apple will just sidestep all this stuff and release something totally off the wall IMO.

Seems this is rumoured too: http://web.mac.com/gomerjb/iWeb/gomercentral/Blog/69FD562E-0B37-435B-B697-F7D39A51ECA8.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2010)

Given that this is a media/ebook reader type thing I doubt typing will be the big thing you'll be doing on it. Seems to me it will be more loading stuff up, surfing, pressing play/pause etc.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

Looking good!


----------



## zenie (Jan 22, 2010)

"YEH, I'M IN THE LIBRARY!! I'M ON THE I-SLATE. CAN YOU HEAR ME??" 

Ha! 

I hope there isn't a phone in it almost, you'd feel a right dickhead holding that to your ear.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Looking good!



LOL! And what the hell are the two holes for?


----------



## paolo (Jan 22, 2010)

zenie said:


> "YEH, I'M IN THE LIBRARY!! I'M ON THE I-SLATE. CAN YOU HEAR ME??"
> 
> Ha!



 I did the same joke to my 'iFriends' in the pub the other night.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 22, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! And what the hell are the two holes for?


There's a big curved line hidden by his hand, so it looks like a smiley face. That's what I'd do


----------



## Sunray (Jan 22, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! And what the hell are the two holes for?




3D Camera!


----------



## Sunray (Jan 22, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


>



Fail, its too thick.


----------



## elbows (Jan 23, 2010)

gabi said:


> How the hell are you sposed to type on it tho if you dont have a flat surface handy?



Well with the previous failed UMPC format the keyboard was made up of two dials on the lower corners of the screen, and you would hold the thing with two hands and type with your thumbs. I hope Apple come up with something more interesting than that solution, though it did sort of work, its just UMPCs sucked in other ways.

Aside from typing, I expect Apple to do something wacky with the UI and interaction in general, not sure what exactly, not too long till we find out. If they really pull this off then the quality of the experience may just about justify the price tag, no matter if other much cheaper devices can do the same sort of thing, plus if there is a similar development frenzy to the iphone there will be some very interesting apps for it.

Ultimately Im not sure if I will be truly happy with this form factor until its somehow possible to have screens that can fold, thus enabling it to be carried in a pocket, but god knows how that will ever happen.

There is a rumour that it will be called the iPad rather than iSlate but I wouldnt bet on that one, though it was tempting to engage in a bit of domain name speculation.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 23, 2010)

iTunes says what it will do as a base level.  What else they will add to that mix is anyone guess, news and books are the obvious targets.  Its this coming Wednesday, not really worth speculating now, we shall know soon enough.


----------



## gabi (Jan 24, 2010)

elbows said:


> There is a rumour that it will be called the iPad rather than iSlate but I wouldnt bet on that one, though it was tempting to engage in a bit of domain name speculation.



I really doubt it'll be the iPad. Way too similar to iPod, particuarly when pronounced in languages other than english.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 24, 2010)

gabi said:


> I really doubt it'll be the iPad. Way too similar to iPod, particuarly when pronounced in languages other than english.



And it sounds like a sanitary towel.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 24, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*

Perhaps there'll be no 'i' and it might just the Apple Slate or Pad?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 24, 2010)

Looks like mockup for an Apple Tablet are nothing new....


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2010)

I can almost hear the iUnderpants moistening all around the world as The Lord Jobs' announcement grows nearer.

*packs sandwiches to join the fanboy queue outside the Apple store for whatever it is


----------



## paolo (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> I can almost hear the iUnderpants moistening all around the world as The Lord Jobs' announcement grows nearer.
> 
> *packs sandwiches to join the fanboy queue outside the Apple store for whatever it is



You _know_ you'll be following the launch like the rest of us


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 25, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You _know_ you'll be following the launch like the rest of us



Difference being that this year he'll be following one of the live blogs on an iPhone - Double bubble win! - He can take the piss & roll his virtual eyes about the new product, whilst simultaneously moaning about how much easier it was to do it from a Palm Pre last year. 

for editor


----------



## paolo (Jan 25, 2010)

Time to wheel out this again:


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 25, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Time to wheel out this again:



Keeps on giving 

"I'll buy almost anything if it's shiny & made by Apple"

I must remember to get this made into a t shirt for a friend of mine.


----------



## paolo (Jan 25, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Keeps on giving



Plus the bonus of the "Sudoku Killer" item at the end.


----------



## gabi (Jan 25, 2010)

The macrumour forums are currently working building towards the biggest collective orgasm the world's ever seen.

apparently steve jobs was overheard saying '"This will be the most important thing I've ever done"

The thread discussing that piece of hearsay is currently at 420 odd posts


----------



## Structaural (Jan 25, 2010)

Interesting article on the Fingerworks aquisition on Appleinsider (sorry on phone, no link) as it relates to the iSlate.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jan 25, 2010)

gabi said:


> The macrumour forums are currently working building towards the biggest collective orgasm the world's ever seen.
> 
> apparently steve jobs was overheard saying '"This will be the most important thing I've ever done"
> 
> The thread discussing that piece of hearsay is currently at 420 odd posts



This is causing me much mirth....




                                               which I like.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

gabi said:


> The macrumour forums are currently working building towards the biggest collective orgasm the world's ever seen.
> 
> apparently steve jobs was overheard saying '"This will be the most important thing I've ever done"
> 
> The thread discussing that piece of hearsay is currently at 420 odd posts


*swoons


----------



## paolo (Jan 25, 2010)

Most anticipated tech product launch of the year. I'd guess all the broadsheets have already planned up a full page on it, rolling news will cover it, wouldn't be at all surprised to see it spill over into places like Radio 6.

All of this on what is probably the most miserly PR budget in the industry. The less they say, the more coverage they get.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Most anticipated tech product launch of the year. I'd guess all the broadsheets have already planned up a full page on it, rolling news will cover it, wouldn't be at all surprised to see it spill over into places like Radio 6.
> 
> All of this on what is probably the most miserly PR budget in the industry. The less they say, the more coverage they get.


Apple are absolutely brilliant at stoking up at the hype - a little leak here, a whisper there, and the bloggers go crazy with desire and speculation.

The oddest thing is that when the actual product launch disappoints - as quite a few have recently - the press seem to instantly forgive and forget and start up the cycle all over again.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 25, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I'd guess all the broadsheets have already planned up a full page on it



Already planned? 
The bloody Guardian has had at least 2 or 3 pant wetting features/articles on the front page of the website in the past week.


----------



## gabi (Jan 25, 2010)

I've taken the day off work on the 27th (pure coincidence i hasten to add). Any idea what time the keynote is?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 25, 2010)

they're usually around 6pm our time


----------



## Kingdom (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> I can almost hear the iUnderpants moistening



All i hear are the screams of people still using windows.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=314859

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=314387


----------



## gabi (Jan 25, 2010)

Oofff.. I need to lie down..


----------



## mack (Jan 25, 2010)

iWish

http://www.pidjin.net/2010/01/25/iwish/


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

Kingdom said:


> All i hear are the screams of people still using windows.


Yeah! Because Macs never ever go wrong either!

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=289731
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=139999
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=212953



Back on topic, a part of me would love to have the Messiah Slate and another part of me wishes it turns out to be a total lemon, just for the fanboi lolz.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

Oh, and I'd like to TM and (c) that.

'Messiah Slate'.


----------



## Kingdom (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Yeah! Because Macs never ever go wrong either!


----------



## elbows (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Back on topic, a part of me would love to have the Messiah Slate and another part of me wishes it turns out to be a total lemon, just for the fanboi lolz.



Im assuming the design will be great, but whether its a winner in terms of sales is something I shall pay a lot of interest to - Ive been waiting a long time to see a tablet done properly so can really judge whether the form factor will ever really fit with humanity, and this Apple tablet should answer that question, as long as they dont mess up with the pricing of the device (which with Apple is always a possibility).

Ive got far more at stake with this announcement than I would ideally like, as it will likely determine my future career and how quickly I can get away from the day job that has been driving me bonkers for 10 years now.Want badly to develop sites/services/apps that work wonderfully on a tablet, it will be the complete opposite to the insanely poor UI & functionality that my deluded boos forces me to be involved with for years.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Back on topic, a part of me would love to have the Messiah Slate and another part of me wishes it turns out to be a total lemon, just for the fanboi lolz.



I really hope it does well, because apple are great at making the rest of industry improve their game.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

The pricing is absolutely critical. No matter how wonderful it is, if it's over £600 (as rumoured) then I can't see it replicating the iPhone's success. Price it a bit above netbooks (say £400), and I may well be high fiving the Apple Store staff.





Global_Stoner said:


> I really hope it does well, because apple are great at making the rest of industry improve their game.


They're pretty good at enforcing their way of doing things and using proprietary controls too, which ain't so good.


----------



## gabi (Jan 25, 2010)

It's gonna have a webcam allegedly. That'll be pretty cool.

And some kinda highly advanced handwriting recognition shit... ive got to stop reading that mac rumour site


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Price it a bit above netbooks (say £400), and I may well be high fiving the Apple Store staff.They're pretty good at enforcing their way of doing things and using proprietary controls too, which ain't so good.



That's one reason I don't own Apple kit. What will be interesting is how the market responds and what other products appear.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> The pricing is *absolutely* critical.



No it's not. 
To _*you*_ it may be, but Apple don't really give two figs about the you's of this world - we're talking about the rosy glow of Apple here & I'd never underestimate the spending power of the Kanda's of this world when it comes to things that are shiny & made by Apple 
If anything the iPhone & iPod support this.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 25, 2010)

gabi said:


> It's gonna have a webcam allegedly. That'll be pretty cool.
> 
> And some kinda highly advanced handwriting recognition shit... ive got to stop reading that mac rumour site



That could be very cool for a device with no hardware keyboard. 

My work mate is a big fan of tablets and I was very impressed by how good the handwriting recognition is on his HP Tablet. Of course its almost laptop sized, which partially defeats the point, but with Win 7 on and multi touch its a nice thing to browse from the sofa. 

Even if Apple just manage to make something a bit better with a nicer form factor it could be a winner and I'm hoping it will blow it away.


----------



## elbows (Jan 25, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> No it's not.
> To _*you*_ it may be, but Apple don't really give two figs about the you's of this world - we're talking about the rosy glow of Apple here & I'd never underestimate the spending power of the Kanda's of this world when it comes to things that are shiny & made by Apple
> If anything the iPhone & iPod support this.



Granted Apple have traditionally gone for the price premium end of things and they arent going to want to appear to cheapen their brand by going for the bargain basement side of things, but there are numerous reasons why the price might not end up being as stupidly high as some rumours would have it. They have to watch the price if they are trying to get share of the ebook market, and assuming it does not have a full OS & the flexibility of a complete computer or even netbook, it would be very risky to price it the same as an expensive computer.

Plus Apple have rather gotten into making lots of money through sale of digital goods, music, video & apps, and they will want to strike a balance between profit from selling the hardware and getting shedloads more potential customers for their digital wares.

If it includes 3G connectivity then there is also the possibility of having the hardware subsidised by a contract with mobile operator, which may not make total cost of ownership cheaper but would likely make the device appear more affordable in terms of up-front cost.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> No it's not.
> To _*you*_ it may be, but Apple don't really give two figs about the you's of this world - we're talking about the rosy glow of Apple here & I'd never underestimate the spending power of the Kanda's of this world when it comes to things that are shiny & made by Apple
> If anything the iPhone & iPod support this.


It's not just me, you know:


> It seems Apple might have difficulty in  shifting a high-priced tablet device in any great numbers if consumer  polls carried out in both the UK and US, revealed on the eve of what's  expected to be the iTablet unveiling, are anything to go by.
> 
> Here in the UK a survey of 3000 consumers by website VoucherCodes.co.uk  reveals that 46% of British consumers would not be prepared to spend  more than £250 on the Apple iTablet.
> 
> ...


I imagine Kanda will buy it if it tuns out to be just a glowing inflatable Apple iPillow.


----------



## gabi (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> It's not just me, you know:
> I imagine Kanda will buy it if it tuns out to be just a glowing inflatable Apple iPillow.



I remember it was widely claimed the iPhone wouldn't sell either, given its premium price... which was, well, kinda wrong...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*

Something that makes me wonder if it's gonna have 3G is the heavy focus on games in the rumours. Reminds me of the iPod touch...

Anyway, can't help but wonder if this will be the touch version of the MacBook air? Great looking, cool as hell but basically a premium edition of the iPhone for the luxury apple owning types...I guess we ain't got long now till we see the new Jobs toy.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 25, 2010)

1st gen ipod, iphone and (i betcha million bucks) islate: all overpriced at launch. that's the point. it is an expensive, highly desirable shiny toy. if the people who spend $1000 on shiny toys buy them in sufficient numbers, then we'll see versions 2 and 3 for cheaper (and most likely with the bugs ironed out too)


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

Crispy said:


> 1st gen ipod, iphone and (i betcha million bucks) islate: all overpriced at launch. that's the point. it is an expensive, highly desirable shiny toy. if the people who spend $1000 on shiny toys buy them in sufficient numbers, then we'll see versions 2 and 3 for cheaper (and most likely with the bugs ironed out too)


I'm not sure that the MacBook Air has reached sufficient velocity to escape out of the 'rich git' bracket yet. I don't know anyone who owns one.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 25, 2010)

nope. the G4 cube never made it either.

but the ipod and the iphone did. maybe the slate will too...


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

At 400 quid and its desirable then I want one and you want one and rest of the world will want one and Apple will be struggling to make enough.
Priced at more than 500 and it has to be better than a 500 quid laptop because 500 quid gets me quite a nice laptop which can do most everything I want.  

It also has to be thin, if its not thin and I am having to heft it in anyway, then its not so interesting.  

It might not even be a Tablet.  The new 4th generation iPhone. That would be classic. 

I'm looking forward to Mobile OSX ver 4 if thats released.  There has been a noticeable lack of updates to the iPhone over the last few months, so there is definitely something going on there.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> I'm not sure that the MacBook Air has reached sufficient velocity to escape out of the 'rich git' bracket yet. I don't know anyone who owns one.



I've known one out of all the mac owners I've known...


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

Has to be thin *and* strong seeing as it won't have a lid to protect all that glass.


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

OK, I've been trying to guess a price.

Factors...
1) Cheapest Macbook: $999. It surely has to be at least a little cheaper than that.
2) iPhone (real) price. I've not done enough digging to quantify this one. I'll hazard a guess at $500-$600 for the 32Gb 3GS unlocked. Maybe this is less of a factor, because most people don't know the real price.
3) Assuming, like the iPhone, there will be two SKUs, differing only in storage.... The premium on the iPhone is £90 for an extra 16Gb

So, in the urban sweepstake, my punt:

iThingy 32Gb: $699 - £549
iThingy 64Gb: $899 - £699


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> Has to be thin *and* strong seeing as it won't have a lid to protect all that glass.



One of the "chatter" reports I was listening to last night was saying there's a story about it taking them a year or more to sort out that issue. True or not, you're right, a big challenge.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 26, 2010)

At launch it will be pricey.

Thereby granting it that its soo cool mere mortals can't purchase it status.

Rich twats buy it and lord it over the rest smug in the fact they can afford the swankiest exclusive gadget.

Once its cool factor has been well and truly established by the above and they gauge the demand for it they release the version 2. Which is now priced for the masses of course. Who swarm out to buy it because their must have gadget glands have gone into overdrive now that they realise they too can afford the latest cool showy gadget. Not realising that the exclusive element that made them think it was soo cool no longer exists.

Its the marketing strategy Hagan Das are lauded for using to create a high priced ice cream brand that sold in buckets and that Apple have transferred to electronics.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> Has to be thin *and* strong seeing as it won't have a lid to protect all that glass.



Thats got to be a big worry for anyone purchasing. With a laptop the lid protects the glass and yet screens still sometimes crack.

With no lid? I'd be scared to death of breaking the screen.


----------



## hendo (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> I can still see how it'll work. Absolutely.
> 
> People are used to reading papers on their phones now, but I'd much rather read my morning paper on a larger slate than my phone. I'd even be happy to pay for a daily digital newspaper delivery and Apple are perfectly positioned to offer such a service.



There's such a lot riding on this thing now. My friend in publishing thinks it will save her business. And so do the newspaper people. It had better not suck! I'm sure it won't. 

I sort of want one, even though I don't know anything about it, so positive has been my experience of the iphone. And my next computer will be a Mac, I have decided, even though it doesn't play nicely with Total War.

In the meantime Apple has begun the process of getting the content companies sorted: 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fa35a512-09fb-11df-8b23-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss&nclick_check=1


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> It's not just me, you know:
> I imagine Kanda will buy it if it tuns out to be just a glowing inflatable Apple iPillow.



I'll buy it if it lives up to the hype and it's a good product.  Not just cos it's Apple..!! 

didn't buy an Air did I?!

Notice Metro Newspaper has released a reader app for it's publication. Allows offline reading, keeping back issues, searching back issues etc...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 26, 2010)

Kanda said:


> didn't buy an Air did I?!



You came very fucking close IIRC


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> You came very fucking close IIRC



I bought a Macbook Pro instead 

This was when I made the switch from PC to Mac though. I now have 2 Mac's, compared to 3 desktop PC's and a Laptop... downsizing


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

Fear not about its breakability.   It will be sporting gorilla glass. The Adamo from Dell has it.

http://www.corning.com/gorillaglass/index.aspx

Wow check out that cheezy video, there is a proper breakability test in there, and what they seem to have made is flexible glass.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

hendo said:


> I sort of want one, even though I don't know anything about it, so positive has been my experience of the iphone.


How can you want something when you _don't even know what it is?!_!


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> How can you want something when you _don't even know what it is?!_!


You must have had very deprived childhood Chistmasses


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You must have had very deprived childhood Chistmasses


Err, I wasn't paying for my own surprise presents.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

You wouldn't get a joke if it was delivered by hand


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You wouldn't get a joke if it was delivered by hand


With 'jokes' like that you should be on the stage.

It leaves in five minutes.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 26, 2010)

_Times were harder back then..._


----------



## gabi (Jan 26, 2010)

Seems to be a cert it'll be called the iPad now on that rumour site. A german retailer's already advertising it at 500 euros, so i guess about the same in quid. Not that bad...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 26, 2010)

gabi said:


> Seems to be a cert it'll be called the iPad now on that rumour site. A german retailer's already advertising it at 500 euros, so i guess about the same in quid. Not that bad...



It was a tweet that was deleted. Speculation is at fever pitch!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

iPad? That's awful. Still, iSlate wasn't much better.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

iPad is a stupid name, don't like iSlate much but prefer it...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

gabi said:


> Seems to be a cert it'll be called the iPad now on that rumour site. A german retailer's already advertising it at 500 euros, so i guess about the same in quid. Not that bad...



€499 with a data contract from T-Mobile. €899 without.

That's fucking pricey.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

This whole 'i' malarkey sounds well cheesy now. I  wouldn't be surprised if they dumped it altogether and called it something like the MacPad or summat.  

Or the 'Messiah Tablet' (TM) (c), editor 2009.


----------



## gabi (Jan 26, 2010)

Looks like it'll be colourful too..


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> €499 with a data contract from T-Mobile. €899 without.
> 
> That's fucking pricey.



Is it really?

I guess you could get a dongle and free Netbook deal but that's just your bog standard netbook deal. They're £30/month for 24 months??? 

Depends what the contract deal is with the Network Operator I suppose.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 26, 2010)

Gotta say, apple product launch threads are some of the most amusing ever on urban.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 26, 2010)

gabi said:


> A german retailer's already advertising it



How


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> How



http://www.macrumors.com/

It was a now deleted tweet...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Is it really?
> 
> I guess you could get a dongle and free Netbook deal but that's just your bog standard netbook deal. They're £30/month for 24 months???
> 
> Depends what the contract deal is with the Network Operator I suppose.



It is really. If they're going for the mid-range consumer market, then £500 (plus however much a month for data contract on top of existing mobile contract) is a lot. Most people will shrug and think "It's nice, but I have iPhone and a laptop/netbook, why would I want another device?".


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> It is really. If they're going for the mid-range consumer market, then £500 (plus however much a month for data contract on top of existing mobile contract) is a lot. Most people will shrug and think "It's nice, but I have iPhone and a laptop/netbook, why would I want another device?".


For most of my mobile needs, I've gone from laptop -> small laptop -> netbook -> iPhone.

I'm not sure why I'd want to start upsizing again.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> It is really. If they're going for the mid-range consumer market, then £500 (plus however much a month for data contract on top of existing mobile contract) is a lot. Most people will shrug and think "It's nice, but I have iPhone and a laptop/netbook, why would I want another device?".



Vaio P is £900 and doesn't come with a SIM for the SIM slot...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 26, 2010)

Kanda said:


> http://www.macrumors.com/
> 
> It was a now deleted tweet...



Ah, ok.

<sits back with popcorn to watch the climax to the show over the next 36 hrs>

What time is God on stage tomorrow?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> What time is God on stage tomorrow?



6pm UK time I think


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

Isn't that always going to be an issue though? A tablet hasn't already got a real space in the market and neat to nobody really 'needs' one.

You'd be verging on the delusional if you think Apple's going to start off with a cheap, mass market opener.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> This whole 'i' malarkey sounds well cheesy now. I  wouldn't be surprised if they dumped it altogether and called it something like the MacPad or summat.
> 
> Or the 'Messiah Tablet' (TM) (c), editor 2009.



Indeed, the Apple Slate sounds better than the iSlate to my ears...


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Vaio P is £900 and doesn't come with a SIM for the SIM slot...


But there's no shortage of much, much cheaper models offering 3G slots - like the rather attractive Lenono S10-2 which retails for just £250.






It's got great reviews too: http://hothardware.com/Articles/Lenovo-IdeaPad-S102-Review/


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> But there's no shortage of much, much cheaper models offering 3G slots - like the rather attractive Lenono S10-2 which retails for just £250.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True, hadn't seen them. Tis 'just another netbook' though isn't it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> You'd be verging on the delusional if you think Apple's going to start off with a cheap, mass market opener.



Depends what the product is really, doesn't it? Their big consumer gadgety products aren't cheap, but neither are they at the £900 mark.

Seems this is going to be a tablet netbook rather than a portable, iPhone-esque reader/player. For £900 I'd want a full OS.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

But for more than 600 quid, forget netbooks, you can get a 17" core i5 full on Dell laptop with Windows 7 and no control from Apple on what you install on it, no contracts required and a huge range of apps and games to play on it.  Pretty much no compromises made.

Apples offering might have a funky OS and whatever but of the two I know which I'd buy.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> But for more than 600 quid, forget netbooks, you can get a 17" core i5 full on Dell laptop with Windows 7 and no control from Apple on what you install on it, no contracts required and a huge range of apps and games to play on it.  Pretty much no compromises made.
> 
> Apples offering might have a funky OS and whatever but of the two I know which I'd buy.



Well exactly. For £900 it's gonna have to be pretty amazing. It'll have to do something different.

Or maybe it won't. Maybe it's like the Macbook Air. Not likely to sell a high volume at all.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 26, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed, the Apple Slate sounds better than the iSlate to my ears...



The rumour is that slate has been dumped alltogether and iTablet will be it's name. How true the rumour is though is anyone's guess.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> For most of my mobile needs, I've gone from laptop -> small laptop -> netbook -> iPhone.
> 
> I'm not sure why I'd want to start upsizing again.



I think it may be an issue that people will need a tablet and a phone. If you have a phone that does most of what a tablet does are you going to bother with the tablet? Why overload your pockets if you don't need to?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

Gromit said:


> The rumour is that slate has been dumped alltogether and iTablet will be it's name. How true the rumour is though is anyone's guess.



LOL! Rumour has it is starting to sound like a euphemism for whatever some tech blog thinks...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> €499 with a data contract from T-Mobile. €899 without.
> 
> That's fucking pricey.



I wonder if you'll be able to tether it to your phone or you will have to get a separate data plan for it?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Well exactly. For £900 it's gonna have to be pretty amazing. It'll have to do something different.
> 
> Or maybe it won't. Maybe it's like the Macbook Air. Not likely to sell a high volume at all.



I'm still not convinced by the concept especially at that price.  

I await tomorrow with at best a mild interest at the device.  Much more interesting to me is a demo of what features version 4 of the the iPhone OS is going to contain.

I've this funny feeling that the world expect Apple to pull some rabbit out of the hat on this and I am expecting no more than Apple TV which I see they still sell, crappy crippled box that it is.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I'm still not convinced by the concept especially at that price.
> 
> I await tomorrow with at best a mild interest at the device.  Much more interesting to me is a demo of what features version 4 of the the iPhone OS is going to contain.



Yeah, same.

My money is going on bike sat nav. Not a big iPhone running Snow Leopard.

It could have gone the other way, but doesn't look like a device aimed at me.


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

Will be iPhone OS beefed up, not OSX scaled down, btw.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Will be iPhone OS beefed up, not OSX scaled down, btw.



€499/€899 is even more of a joke then, if that's the case.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

... and you'll need an iMac to sync it


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> It's not just me, you know:
> I imagine Kanda will buy it if it tuns out to be just a glowing inflatable Apple iPillow.



the iDakimakura


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

Some weird expectations on this thread. I suspect most are going to be sadly disappointed by price, especially if they're going to try and compare it to a sodding Dell laptop of all things. 

Needless to say it's a different market entirely. And I really doubt Apple sees that as their competition - they're after all experiencing record profits whilst Dell's market cap decreases with every year


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 26, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> the iDakimakura



Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Is that actually real - I mean can a fanboi actually hug Steve at night if they wanted too???


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> €499/€899 is even more of a joke then, if that's the case.



I reckon those numbers are utter BS. Why would they need a German friggin' carrier deal worked out for a classic Apple Bay Area launch event?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Some weird expectations on this thread. I suspect most are going to be sadly disappointed by price, especially if they're going to try and compare it to a sodding Dell laptop of all things.



I don't think they're weird in the slightest. The original rumours I saw were all about it being a consumer-targeted reader aimed at a lower price point than the MacBook.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I don't think they're weird in the slightest. The original rumours I saw were all about it being a consumer-targeted reader aimed at a lower price point than the MacBook.



That was about 5 months ago...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Some weird expectations on this thread. I suspect most are going to be sadly disappointed by price, especially if they're going to try and compare it to a sodding Dell laptop of all things.
> 
> Needless to say it's a different market entirely. And I really doubt Apple sees that as their competition - they're after all experiencing record profits whilst Dell's market cap decreases with every year



It's a speculation thread, what else can it be until we see the actual device?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 26, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> 
> Is that actually real - I mean can a fanboi actually hug Steve at night if they wanted too???



some fanboy somewhere  with better photoshop skills than me (actually i did it in gimp as  i'm on my work laptop) probably  does have one somewhere


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 26, 2010)

I'll piss myself laughing if after all this they just announce a new sort of mouse and an update to Time Machine


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

I'm just saying that using a Dell laptop as a price comparator is daft. Apple's laptops rarely compete on price directly, let alone a new product.

A lower price than a Macbook perhaps,  but that's do with the Apple product Matrix rather than trying to compare different families of products from a different manufacturer. I doubt, given Apple's latest financial results, that they'll be in any rush to abandon the premium price positioning.


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

Kanda said:


> That was about 5 months ago...



And I never recall there being a concensus that it would (solely) be a reader.


----------



## magneze (Jan 26, 2010)

So the prediction is for a big iPhone, essentially?


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'm just saying that using a Dell laptop as a price comparator is daft. Apple's laptops rarely compete on price directly, let alone a new product.
> 
> A lower price than a Macbook perhaps,  but that's do with the Apple product Matrix rather than trying to compare different families of products from a different manufacturer. I doubt, given Apple's latest financial results, that they'll be in any rush to abandon the premium price positioning.



You're merging two seperate questions: 

(a) What one expects Apple to do.
(b) Whether one is convinced by that.

I expect Apple to make a premium priced mid-sized 'thing'
I am not convinced there's a proper market for mid-sized 'things'. I'd buy a replacement laptop instead. (This may or may not be what Sunray was driving at)


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

TBH I said pretty much the same thing on the first page of this or similar thread - I'm doubtful there's enough of a market for it, unless there's more up the sleeve than first appears.

Comparing any Apple product, let alone this new thing, to a bargain Dell laptop remains a daft comparison whatever though. If there's one thing Apple doesn't want to be associated with, it's an uninspired pile em high, sell em cheap product assembly merchant like Dill.


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> TBH I said pretty much the same thing on the first page of this or similar thread - I'm doubtful there's enough of a market for it, unless there's more up the sleeve than first appears.
> 
> Comparing any Apple product, let alone this new thing, to a bargain Dell laptop remains a daft comparison whatever though. If there's one thing Apple doesn't want to be associated with, it's an uninspired pile em high, sell em cheap product assembly merchant like Dill.



I agree that it's not Apple's business to compete with bland-o me-too products.

That people will or will not make price comparisons is a *seperate* point.

I personally would look at that kind of money and think, hmmm, could get a new laptop for that. It doesn't mean I think that Apple should be making yet-another-yawn laptop.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> If there's one thing Apple doesn't want to be associated with, it's an uninspired pile em high, sell em cheap product assembly merchant like Dill.


There's nothing wrong with 'pile 'em high' products - not everyone can afford Apple's lofty prices after all, and it's good that companies like Dell make computing affordable to all - but they can also produce some excellent and innovative products.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


>



$2k


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

That's the Adamo right? The original model of which worked out to be more expensive, less powerful and desirable than the much criticised Macbook Air.

That's a fairly direct comparison. That's a world apart from trying to compare mock ups of a possible tablet with a bum standard Dell laptop.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> TBH I said pretty much the same thing on the first page of this or similar thread - I'm doubtful there's enough of a market for it, unless there's more up the sleeve than first appears.
> 
> Comparing any Apple product, let alone this new thing, to a bargain Dell laptop remains a daft comparison whatever though. If there's one thing Apple doesn't want to be associated with, it's an uninspired pile em high, sell em cheap product assembly merchant like Dill.



You miss my point entirely.  

It has to have significant added value to make a laptop of a similar price less attractive. If they are going down the iPhone netbook route, then its a walled garden lock in to the App store and iTunes.  This proved a very successful format for a mobile phone, mainly down to the horrendous fragmentation of the applications in other sectors, low prices and slick end to end integration.  

If this model is moved into a larger device its moving into the the laptop space. I am nearly 100% certain however lovely the device will be and its certain it will be a gorgeous thing, that walled garden Apple control will look shabby against even their own laptops. 

It will make it a lot less attractive to someone when they can buy a proper laptop that does everything the tablet does and a mega load more with no wait for applications, for a very similar price.  Applications on the iPhone took the best part of a year to start to properly mature.  There will be less of a wait for the tablet as devs can just scale their apps up but not all will be applicable, but there is still going to be a wait.

Buy a laptop and you get it all and you get it right now.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

Buy a Dell laptop now and you certainly don't get anything approaching the Apple user experience, that's for sure.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Buy a Dell laptop now and you certainly don't get anything approaching the Apple user experience, that's for sure.



But you do have a lot more notes left in your pocket...


----------



## hendo (Jan 26, 2010)

The latest rumour-pictures are here

I'm oddly excited considering this is the launch of a bloody computer. 

Where has my life gone?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

There is precious little difference between OSX and Windows 7 in terms of what they can do and the user experience.  Go for a Dell and you get a much more powerful machine for the same money, not as well engineered but it will do the same.

There is a world of difference between a laptop running OSX or Windows 7 and some Apple controlled walled garden  device.  If they operate in the same price arena, who in their right mind will be choosing the Apple Tablet over a fully fledged laptop?  If you've a wad of cash in your pocket and want something cool, OK go get one.  But given the choice, I already own an iPhone and a laptop that does exactly what I need. How many people already have both of those?  They are going to have to generate some spectacular added value to get me interested.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

If that's it, it's going to be a funny shape to hold, no? And how could you type on all that flat glass?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

Again, the harware will not be a surprise. Shiny on the back, black on the front, few buttons. Software is the exciting bit and you can't fake that in photoshop in a few hours!


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

All these Johnny-come-latelys and their macboy fixations eh.



Sunray's talk of laptops seems to really miss the point. Like the smartphone market, having one device do it all (badly) isn't the key to building a market for a new product. It's doing things in a compelling fashion that counts. We'll see if the tablet has that wow factor.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

Why do all these rumours look like scaled up iPhones?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Why do all these rumours look like scaled up iPhones?


You actually need that answered for you?


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

MacWorld magazine has managed to stretch zero information about the upcoming product into a front page special, billing it as "Mac tablet - the pre-launch edition."

lol


----------



## g force (Jan 26, 2010)

Ah gotta love print magazines and there increasing struggle for anyone to give a shit.


----------



## gabi (Jan 26, 2010)

The guardian's running a 'crowdsourcing' thingee to try to figure out what it is 

Apple's PR dept are genius. Still not a word on their official site referring to anything at all going on tomorrow yet its still the talk of the internet...


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

Apple COO Tim Cook said:
			
		

> To one questioner, Cook replied: "I wouldn't want to take away your joy and surprise on Wednesday when you see our latest creations."



'creation*s*'  ?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

iphone OS4 and the tablet


----------



## fogbat (Jan 26, 2010)

Also, a hat that gives you psychic powers.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> There is precious little difference between OSX and Windows 7 in terms of what they can do and the user experience.  Go for a Dell and you get a much more powerful machine for the same money, not as well engineered but it will do the same.



Only real difference is that there's a fuck load more software (inc games) available for Windows 7.


----------



## gabi (Jan 26, 2010)

So the twitter post this morning was a fake... good...


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

Frankly Sunray and Filter, speaking as someone who's testing a Dell Latitude and Windows 7 at work I can assure that there's still a considerable difference in the user experience between a Mac laptop and Windows equivalent - see also responses like Kanda's since switching sides. It's hardly particularly relevant given that everyone and his dog assumes that this is going to be a tablet style device rather than another laptop anyway.

Equally, why the fuck people are wittering on about Windows games and more software is a moot point. What possible difference is that going to make to a tablet launch?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Frankly Sunray and Filter, speaking as someone who's testing a Dell Latitude and Windows 7 at work I can assure that there's still a considerable difference in the user experience between a Mac laptop and Windows equivalent - see also responses like Kanda's since switching sides. It's hardly particularly relevant given that everyone and his dog assumes that this is going to be a tablet style device rather than another laptop anyway.
> 
> Equally, why the fuck people are wittering on about Windows games and more software is a moot point. What possible difference is that going to make to a tablet launch?



 I love you. You're like the changing of a tide.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Only real difference is that there's a fuck load more software (inc games) available for Windows 7.



Quite a bit comes out of the box with the Mac. I think the only other software I have installed on mine is Adobe Creative Suite, Ableton, Traktor Scratch Pro and Office.  Everything else is pretty much there.

Not everyone plays games on a PC. Generally it's a pain in the arse to, upgrading and tweaking all the time. I've got consoles for games.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

And next to nobody is a serious gamer on laptop alone, let alone a tablet device so far.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> And next to nobody is a serious gamer on laptop alone, let alone a tablet device so far.



Although with the push they've made on the iPhone.. they could secure a decent market of non-hardcore gamers maybe.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

I love the fact that Filter's accusing someone else of being like the 'changing of the tide. As if his daft post had any real relevance.

This is the bloke who changes his routine 'it's great, the best ever' views dependent on whatever object he has in his hands at the time. He doesn't so much bend with the wind, as stoop over whilst building a giant wind turbine on his bonce. 

One day he'll grow up and achieve a little consistency.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

FWIW Kanda, the iphone gaming market has taken off in a serious way. It's a different type of game, and gamer, in the main from the BYO pc gamer market, you know the type who boast how powerful their rig is and how many games are available for it.


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

The difference between Windows and OSX isn't really relevant.

The question is, if you had to choose between a conventional laptop/netbook, or a walled garden tablet, which would you choose?

Hands up here who is prepared to ditch a laptop for this? Srsly?

Or, if you don't have a laptop, would get this instead?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

I don't have a laptop, but might consider this. If I already had one as my main computer, I probably wouldn't.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I love the fact that Filter's accusing someone else of being like the 'changing of the tide. As if his daft post had any real relevance.
> 
> This is the bloke who changes his routine 'it's great, the best ever' views dependent on whatever object he has in his hands at the time. He doesn't so much bend with the wind, as stoop over whilst building a giant wind turbine on his bonce.
> 
> One day he'll grow up and achieve a little consistency.



Don't confuse a preference for best of breed over brand loyalty as inconsistency. I go for the best for my needs and budget, not the one with the Apple badge. 

Sometimes the one with the Apple badge is the best I can afford, as per the iPhone.

There's no pride to be had in brand loyalty.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

Not me, which is what I said at the start of this thread.

But this isn't designed to be a laptop replacement, nor do we really know how it all hangs together yet. Apple's got a challenge on to carve a use for it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> FWIW Kanda, the iphone gaming market has taken off in a serious way. It's a different type of game, and gamer, in the main from the BYO pc gamer market, you know the type who boast how powerful their rig is and how many games are available for it.



Weak!


----------



## zenie (Jan 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Also, a hat that gives you psychic powers.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

Hold on a second Filter, you haven't even got consistency and loyalty to your own opinions!

There's no blind brand loyalty here - hell, I'll happily criticise and not pay for Apple products that I don't like - but equally I provide balanced, consistent views on products I use in the main. Unlike you, who'll big up any device they're using at the time and defend it to the hilt... until you get the next device and the cycle starts again. See your comments about the Nokia N9Shit, HTC and then the iphone. A bit of a calmer and more informed approach would have worked wonders.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Hold on a second Filter, you haven't even got consistency and loyalty to your own opinions!
> 
> There's no blind brand loyalty here - hell, I'll happily criticise and not pay for Apple products that I don't like - but equally I provide balanced, consistent views on products I use in the main. Unlike you, who'll big up any device they're using at the time and defend it to the hilt... until you get the next device and the cycle starts again. See your comments about the Nokia N9Shit, HTC and then the iphone. A bit of a calmer and more informed approach would have worked wonders.



Worked wonders for what? 

The N95 was a fantastic piece of kit. As was the Touch HD. However, in time they became second best. 

I wouldn't buy something if I didn't think it was the best.

You're a funny fellow


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> And next to nobody is a serious gamer on laptop alone, let alone a tablet device so far.


You're wrong. Quite a few serious gamers use laptops, and there's a whole industry providing them with the machines.


http://www.rockdirect.com/
http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/laptop-gaming/ct.aspx?refid=laptop-gaming&cs=19&s=dhs
http://computers.toptenreviews.com/gaming-laptops/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*




			
				tarannau said:
			
		

> And next to nobody is a serious gamer on laptop alone, let alone a tablet device so far.



Define serious? I've been a clan member played on or owned virtually every console going back to coleco vision, I've had gaming laptops and desktops, own a ds lite, xbox 360 and wii; the iPhone is my second most used gaming platform...a tablet would make for some great gaming.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 26, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Define serious? I've been a clan member played on or owned virtually every console going back to coleco vision, I've had gaming laptops and desktops, own a ds lite, xbox 360 and wii; the iPhone is my second most used gaming platform...a tablet would make for some great gaming.



He did say 'so far'


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

By 'serious' I mean the stereotype of the 'must have the latest overclocked processor and graphics card' gamer that's helped power the BYO market. The kind of people who are rarely satisfied with even the latest consoles. 

I like the iphone as a gaming platform fwiw, but it's succeeded in a different way, appealing more to the casual, quick or family gamer in a similar  way to the wii's carved out a space for itself. That's no bad thing imo, but you'd be blind not to see some of the condescending comments about the wii from 'serious' gamers on here, with much the same said about the iphone as a gaming platform at first.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

tarannau said:


> By 'serious' I mean the stereotype of the 'must have the latest overclocked processor and graphics card' gamer that's helped power the BYO market. .


Right, so by that curious wriggle of logic, you're going to say that people who fork out in excess of £2,000 for a gaming laptop aren't really serious gamers at all, yes?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

who gives a shit? derail imminent. anyone want a tablet?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 26, 2010)

no, but they're a tiny proportion of the laptop buying public, one willing to compromise small things like portability and appearance for the latest and greatest Alienware pigtop or similar. Most of the most committed of byo gamers will avoid laptops for their general lack of upgrade potential

People aren't buying laptops in droves to play the latest and greatest games, nor to replicate the more social area of iphone style gaming fwiw. The tablet's a different thing entirely again


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

Crispy said:


> who gives a shit? derail imminent. anyone want a tablet?



Doesn't look like it!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Right, so by that curious wriggle of logic, you're going to say that people who fork out in excess of £2,000 for a gaming laptop aren't really serious gamers at all, yes?



Heh it's a bullshit term and charactisation to make a point if you ask me...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*




			
				Crispy said:
			
		

> who gives a shit? derail imminent. anyone want a tablet?



Well if you're giving them away I'll take three.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> Right, so by that curious wriggle of logic, you're going to say that people who fork out in excess of £2,000 for a gaming laptop aren't really serious gamers at all, yes?



Of course they are, but I'd be surprised if many of them didn't have a more powerful rig at home. Toys like that are bought for LAN parties and the like.


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Doesn't look like it!



Only one person here so far saying they'd have a tablet instead of a laptop.

So, next up: Who might get a tablet _as well_ as a laptop?


----------



## gabi (Jan 26, 2010)

I'd rather have a tablet... if its anything like its rumoured to be anyway


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2010)

Well hasn't there been a message from above yet?

I thought this announcement was supposed to be happening today.


----------



## gabi (Jan 26, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Well hasn't there been a message from above yet?
> 
> I thought this announcement was supposed to be happening today.



Tomorrow, 6pm UK time.


----------



## paolo (Jan 26, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Well hasn't there been a message from above yet?
> 
> I thought this announcement was supposed to be happening today.



I think the talk of the 26th stemmed from the booking of the venue, but people hadn't clocked that they'd need a day for set up.


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 27, 2010)

my predictions for the islate:

1. whatever it is, kanda will have ordered one by the end of the week.
2. whatever it is, the editor won't like it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*




			
				onemonkey said:
			
		

> my predictions for the islate:
> 
> 1. whatever it is, kanda will have ordered one by the end of the week.
> 2. whatever it is, the editor won't like it



This.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

onemonkey said:


> my predictions for the islate:
> 
> 1. whatever it is, kanda will have ordered one by the end of the week.
> 2. whatever it is, the editor won't like it


Perhaps you missed this: 


editor said:


> The pricing is absolutely critical. No matter how  wonderful it is, if it's over £600 (as rumoured) then I can't see it  replicating the iPhone's success. Price it a bit above netbooks (say  £400), and I may well be high fiving the Apple Store staff.


If it's as good as the hype suggest and isn't priced for Planet Toff,  I'll probably get one.

After all, I've already joined the iBorg.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

*keeping the hype alive*

In case you haven’t heard about it yet, McGraw-Hill CEO confirms the iTablet/iSlate/iPad


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Perhaps you missed this:
> If it's as good as the hype suggest and isn't priced for Planet Toff,  I'll probably get one.
> 
> After all, I've already joined the iBorg.



You're actually scaring me now. It's like watching someone trying some heroin "just to see what it's like"


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> *keeping the hype alive*
> 
> In case you haven’t heard about it yet, McGraw-Hill CEO confirms the iTablet/iSlate/iPad



As predicted earlier in the thread, book content to be dual purpose, iPhone and tablet... it's all coming together.

Sceptical as I am about the "third device" market (vs. phone & laptop), I am really looking forward to this launch. The Air one was a bit mmm-kay, the iPhone 3.0 OS one pretty good, but this *should* be cracking. If London had a geek venue, in the style of a sports bar, with a live feed, I would sooo be there.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You're actually scaring me now. It's like watching someone trying some heroin "just to see what it's like"


The important bit of the  sentence is: "_IF_" it's as good as the hype suggests. 

If it's just another over-hyped, over priced slab of Apple uber-style over content, then I'll naturally continue to give Mr Jobs' computer based offerings a miss. I've got more sense than money, me,


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> The important bit of the  sentence is: "_IF_" it's as good as the hype suggests.
> 
> If it's just another over-hyped, over priced slab of Apple uber-style over content, then I'll naturally continue to give Mr Jobs' computer based offerings a miss.



You'll hate the price. But you will soooo want the gear, man.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You'll hate the price. But you will soooo want the gear, man.


Oh, I dunno. I've never felt much lust towards the MacBook Air or many Apple products to be honest.

I don't much like the design of their laptops - gimme a chunky IBM every time! - although their new iMacs are fucking well lush. I'd have one of them in a heartbeat.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh, I dunno. I've never felt much lust towards the MacBook Air or many Apple products to be honest.
> 
> I don't much like the design of their laptops - gimme a chunky IBM every time! - although their new iMacs are fucking well lush. I'd have one of them in a heartbeat.



I think any lust I had for the Air expired about 20 minutes after Jobs stopped talking about it and common sense kicked in.

With regards to the iMacs, I quickly figured all my lust was for the display, and promptly went and spent £500 on _two_ 24" HD panels for my PC.  Next spend is replacing the shite Vista laptop though. No tablet for me for the foreseeable.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Perhaps you missed this:
> If it's as good as the hype suggest and isn't priced for Planet Toff,  I'll probably get one.
> 
> After all, I've already joined the iBorg.



Don't you feel the iPhone is priced for planet toff?

$600 for a phone...?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Don't you feel the iPhone is priced for planet toff?
> 
> $600 for a phone...?



It's no more expensive than other high-end rivals, really. And it's better.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Only one person here so far saying they'd have a tablet instead of a laptop.
> 
> So, next up: Who might get a tablet _as well_ as a laptop?



Possibly  My Macbook Pro is purely used for Audio/DJ'ing now. It's beat to shit, scratched/dented etc. The iMac isn't really portable ... 



onemonkey said:


> my predictions for the islate:
> 
> 1. whatever it is, kanda will have ordered one by the end of the week.
> 2. whatever it is, the editor won't like it



Not unless it's really impressive.... 

..priced for toffs? fucksake


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

Interesting article about security at Apple http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/technology/23apple.html



> Work spaces are typically monitored by security cameras, this employee said. Some Apple workers in the most critical product-testing rooms must cover up devices with black cloaks when they are working on them, and turn on a red warning light when devices are unmasked so that everyone knows to be extra-careful, he said.
> 
> Apple employees are often just as surprised about new products as everyone else.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Don't you feel the iPhone is priced for planet toff?
> 
> $600 for a phone...?



Planet Toff?



It's a bit more than just a phone - even you can't avoid that - just as it's rivals are also a bit more than a phone and are all quite expensive as a stand alone product.

Next.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

DP


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*

I am waiting for the second generation slate meself. The first one is a bit buggy.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 27, 2010)

Badgers said:


> I am waiting for the second generation slate meself. The first one is a bit buggy.





So is our government going to announce a minutes silence at 6pm today then? Will everyone be allowed to down tools (itools?) and listen to the announcement?


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

Details apparently confirmed by CEO of MCGraw Hill on CNBC last night.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/27/mcgraw_hill_exec_confirms_tablet/


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

pinkmonkey said:


> So is our government going to announce a minutes silence at 6pm today then? Will everyone be allowed to down tools (itools?) and listen to the announcement?



I will be commuting  

If only I had some sort of hand-held device in order to be able to check the news as it breaks 


Hang on......


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Badgers said:


> If only I had some sort of hand-held device in order to be able to check the news as it breaks



Apparently, all non jailbroken iPhones will be simaltaniously woken up at 5.59pm and via iTunes, wil be automatically directed to a live feed of the second coming.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> ..priced for toffs? fucksake



Yeah, get it right. Toffs and the nouveau riche!


----------



## Gromit (Jan 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Apparently, all non jailbroken iPhones will be simaltaniously woken up at 5.59pm and via iTunes, wil be automatically directed to a live feed of the second coming.


 
They think of everything! I was worried that I was going to have to tune in manually.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, get it right. Toffs and the nouveau riche!



*snore*

Really fucking boring.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

iSlate? fuck that I want one of these (some smart fuckers in cambridge!)


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Planet Toff?


Oh dear. Humour failure. It was just a jokey expression. Jeez. Some of you iFans don't 'alf get uptight.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Some of you iFans don't 'alf get uptight.



Pot, kettle on line 2.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Pot, kettle on line 2.


*yawn


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh dear. Humour failure.



That's fucking rich, coming from you - on this forum!!


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

toff and iFan? really fucking hilarious... 

If it was a camera you liked, you'd pay a premium. You wouldn't say it was priced for toffs.

May have been an attempt at humour. Not a very good one and a very tired one at that


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 27, 2010)

They're talking about this magic box like it's going to blow all the e-readers away, save the newspaper industry etc etc... but surely if it has a backlit screen, it'll have the same problem that all computers do; it'll cause eye-strain.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

Apple have a deal with Specsavers already worked out. There's an app for it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2010)

Hahahhahahha! Fucking great!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> *snore*
> 
> Really fucking boring.



Oooh, alright touchy!


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

What time GMT will his Appleness  address us?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

6pm.

7 hours, 5 minutes


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> What time GMT will his Appleness  address us?


The Lord Jobs will be coming down from the Mount clutching the Messiah tablet at:

*08:00AM* – Hawaii
*10:**00AM* – Pacific
*11:00AM* – Mountain
*12:00PM* – Central
*01:00PM* – Eastern
*06:00PM* – London
*07:00PM* – Paris
*09:00PM* – Moscow
*03:00AM* – Tokyo (January 28th)


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Here's what we know:


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

Number 11 is our own Editor!!


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm going to be in oxford circus at 5.30pm - I try and watch it big screen at the Store for the full 1984 effect - bet it's invite only though . Still, if I hang around outside I'll be able to tell my grand kids where I was when IT was announced.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Number 11 is our own Editor!!


Yes! That's why I've said I'd probably buy one if it was reasonably priced!

Yet another Kanda humour fail.





maldwyn said:


> I'm going to be in oxford circus at 5.30pm - I try and watch it big screen at the Store for the full 1984 effect - bet it's invite only though ..


Are they really doing that? There's probably a queue out there already.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

No humour fail here, my name has been bought up enough in this thread about have I ordered it, will I buy it etc and I've said fuck all. Then you call it toff pricing? Sly dig at me? Could be construed as such. 

Then you can't take a joke yourself...


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> I'm going to be in oxford circus at 5.30pm - I try and watch it big screen at the Store for the full 1984 effect - bet it's invite only though . Still, if I hang around outside I'll be able to tell my grand kids where I was when IT was announced.



Never known them to do that before.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Then you call it toff pricing? Sly dig at me? Could be construed as such.


You're fucking paranoid, mate. It was nothing to do with you *AT ALL*. Got that? *Nothing. *

It was just a light hearted comment about the pricing - which we know nothing about - and taken in context you would have seen that I was just saying that I'd probably be getting the thing unless it was outrageously priced.

I reckon you owe me an apology because you've _really_ got the wrong end of the stick here.


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Are they really doing that? There's probably a queue out there already.



They usually do - or the last time I happened to be there on release days that's what happened - they have a theater/lecture space upstairs.

As an aside, I haven't seen much coverage regarding the opening of the massive Covent Garden branch in February.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Yeah, everyone always gets the wrong end of the stick when it comes to you and Apple, eh Ed. Remarkable that


The toff stuff remains entirely unfunny fwiw, notwithstanding the fact that the without contract iphone cost isn't massively different from competitors.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> .
> 
> I reckon you owe me an apology because you've _really_ got the wrong end of the stick here.



nevermind


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> I reckon you owe me an apology because you've _really_ got the wrong end of the stick here.



Ok, you have _got_ to be taking the piss now. 
Because you never get the wrong end of the stick when it comes to 'light hearted' banter do you? Oh no.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Ok, you have _got_ to be taking the piss now.
> Because you never get the wrong end of the stick when it comes to 'light hearted' banter do you? Oh no.


Funny thing is that no one here actually _knows_ the price of the Tablet and I didn't actually say it _was_ priced for toffs. 

But keep those knee jerks coming!


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Here's another supposedly leaked prototype shot showing the size of the thing.






http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/27/is-this-the-apple-tablet/


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> You're fucking paranoid, mate. It was nothing to do with you *AT ALL*. Got that? *Nothing. *
> 
> It was just a light hearted comment about the pricing - which we know nothing about - and taken in context you would have seen that I was just saying that I'd probably be getting the thing unless it was outrageously priced.
> 
> I reckon you owe me an apology because you've _really_ got the wrong end of the stick here.



I said 'could be construed as such'

Didn't say it WAS construed as such...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> I didn't actually say it _was_ priced for toffs.
> 
> But keep those knee jerks coming!



Whatever.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

But.....would Hitler buy one?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

So.. non iSlate predictions for the media event?

I predict Editor going on about it's crazy that they bring the Apple store down just to launch new products


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I predict Editor going on about it's crazy that they bring the Apple store down just to launch new products


Well, that clearly is daft, but I rather like the Inquirer's take on things: 


> ...Only Apple expects a frenzy of speculation and discussion for the launches of its products. When the day arrives we will also be treated to the shameful display of US press people standing up and applauding the appearance of Steve Jobs trying to hawk his latest product as if it is the cure for cancer.
> 
> In fact Apple has already seeded test gear to a few newspapers and tech magazines but only those who will praise it to the skies. We will not see a balanced review until the machines start to hit the shops in a month's time. By then Apple will have whipped its fanboy base into becoming early adopters and they will queue outside stores to give the impression that there is a movement to buy the product.
> 
> ...


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh come on that's a shit take on things. The last paragraph is clearly cobblers. Why would you want to cut and paste something so half thought through?


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Im not sure the UK press is immune, the BBC in particular usually gush over Apple stuff, especially in recent years.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

it's a spectacularly daft opinion piece to be fair, one that gets more removed from reality the more you read it.

There may be a hint of a point there, but it's a poorly written hamheaded piece of copy at best.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

Top news item on Tech section of BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8480063.stm

Top news item in same section on Sky News: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Technology

It's been in the Guardian all week.

The Times, The Telegraph have all run articles on it this week. It's all over the UK press 

It's even on the front page of The Sun! http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

And I dont know why people get quite so upset about editors stance regarding Apple - its one man with an opinion he is entitled to. Ive spent a small fortune on Apple gear since 2005 but it does not bother me if some people have some big gripes with Apple, indeed I can acknowledge their downside without feeling like my own tribe is under attack or that I have wasted my money. Sure I sometimes think that editor goes a bit ott but then again Im well aware that there are a range of subjects that make me go ott. And if we didnt have any negativity about Apple then it would make their image seem even more creepy and cult-like, so hoorah for those who dont drink the kool-aid.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It's all over the UK press



Radio 4 report was good this morning. 
Something about this product changing the 'ecosphere' or something


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm not bothered about the Ed's stance on Apple to be fair. It's only when he pretends to be 'fair and balanced' in that Fox News type way that objections tend to arise for me.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'm not bothered about the Ed's stance on Apple to be fair. It's only when he pretends to be 'fair and balanced' in that Fox News type way that objections tend to arise for me.



Exactly its not the stance, its how its articulated.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> And I dont know why people get quite so upset about editors stance regarding Apple - its one man with an opinion he is entitled to. Ive spent a small fortune on Apple gear since 2005 but it does not bother me if some people have some big gripes with Apple, indeed I can acknowledge their downside without feeling like my own tribe is under attack or that I have wasted my money. Sure I sometimes think that editor goes a bit ott but then again Im well aware that there are a range of subjects that make me go ott. And if we didnt have any negativity about Apple then it would make their image seem even more creepy and cult-like, so hoorah for those who dont drink the kool-aid.



Yeah, but if people didn't get so wobbly about Apple, it wouldn't be half so much fun. It's a symbiotic relationship.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 27, 2010)

It keeps the tech forums ticking over anyway


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> And I dont know why people get quite so upset about editors stance regarding Apple - its one man with an opinion he is entitled to. Ive spent a small fortune on Apple gear since 2005 but it does not bother me if some people have some big gripes with Apple, indeed I can acknowledge their downside without feeling like my own tribe is under attack or that I have wasted my money. ....


A sane opinion at last!

Some people seem to take any criticism (or even opinions expressed elsewhere by someone else!) I post up about Apple as some sort of personal attack, but in reality I very rarely have a bad word to say about _any_ of Apple's products.

However, making great consumer products doesn't mean Apple should be exempt from criticism or comment, or their business practices ignored.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

It does seem odd how Apple users seem to take an attack on Apple as an attack on themselves. No other company has managed to do this - maybe Google a little bit, but by no means as much as Apple. How did they do it?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes sir, you are misread on Apple products as often as GMarthews is elsewhere. It's the AppleMonoThought clique regarding any criticism of Apple as 'personal,' that's it.


You are welcome to your opinions about Apple and I mean that sincerely. But equally I really don't think people are consistently misreading your bias and jibes either. Fairy nuff?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

The attacks/criticisms are generally on the users though, not the products


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

magneze said:


> It does seem odd how Apple users seem to take an attack on Apple as an attack on themselves. No other company has managed to do this - maybe Google a little bit, but by no means as much as Apple. How did they do it?



I think it probably happens with cars and music quite a lot. It happened with ZX Spectrum versus C64 back when I was a kid.

I suspect its something to do with tribal instincts, the high price of apple stuff giving people more reason to be defensive, plus the absolute joy that many people get from apples product design makes them want to defend them like they would a loved one.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> The attacks/criticisms are generally on the users though, not the products


You've just proved his point.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> You've just proved his point.



You prove mine all the time 

How is iBorg, Fanbois and whatever else you want to come up with criticising a product? It's not, you're having a go at the people that use a product.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> I think it probably happens with cars and music quite a lot. It happened with ZX Spectrum versus C64 back when I was a kid.
> 
> I suspect its something to do with tribal instincts, the high price of apple stuff giving people more reason to be defensive, plus the absolute joy that many people get from apples product design makes them want to defend them like they would a loved one.


Comparing it with music is a good analogy - it feels a bit like that sometimes when reading these debates. Almost as if Apple is an artist in their own right rather than a massive corporate entity.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

magneze said:


> It does seem odd how Apple users seem to take an attack on Apple as an attack on themselves. No other company has managed to do this - maybe Google a little bit, but by no means as much as Apple. How did they do it?



Their products cost a lot more than similar products, and so people feel a sense of buyer's remorse that they bury in brand loyalty and a sense of righteousness. "But it's so much slicker!", "But it's so well made!". 

By not subscribing to the same sentiment, you undermine this, and this exposes the buyer's remorse.

Differing opinion is also a big deal for those that buy into Apple as a lifestyle brand. They buy it to be seen as a cut above the usual, so if people don't see the brand as any better then it undermines the lifestyle choice.

It's the same for any high-end brand, but particularly so with Apple.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'm not bothered about the Ed's stance on Apple to be fair. It's only when he pretends to be 'fair and balanced' in that Fox News type way that objections tend to arise for me.



This.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

I got felt defensive when people had a go about me upgrading from the Zeus 'Mars' model to the 'Jupiter' so know how you Apple lot feel


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> How is iBorg, Fanbois and whatever else you want to come up with criticising a product? It's not, you're having a go at the people that use a product.


I described *myself* as 'joining the iBorg' because I bought an iPhone.

Or are you upset because I took the piss out of myself now?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> I described *myself* as 'joining the iBorg' because I bought an iPhone.
> 
> Or are you upset because I took the piss out of myself now?



 back at you. How to take everything literally and entirely miss the  point


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Their products cost a lot more than similar products, and so people feel a sense of buyer's remorse that they bury in brand loyalty and a sense of righteousness. "But it's so much slicker!", "But it's so well made!".
> 
> By not subscribing to the same sentiment, you undermine this, and this exposes the buyer's remorse.
> 
> ...


I wonder if they've over-reached this time. The hype is so big that whatever they've done it's going to be disappointing.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

magneze said:


> I wonder if they've over-reached this time. The hype is so big that whatever they've done it's going to be disappointing.



Is it 'them' (Apple) that do it? 

Or is it the countless rumour sites etc that do it for them?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

To be fair, Apple don't really control the hype. They announce a product launch and give few hints. Mass hysteria and contagious media pant wetting then occurs.

I'm sure Apple aren't too fussed about the effect of their secrecy and past record, but they're not really in control of the circus that ensues.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

magneze said:


> The hype is so big that whatever they've done it's going to be disappointing.



Similar happened for the iPhone launch....


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

I would say the products are the innocent ones in all this. They can't defend themselves, or make any decisions about what they are. Therefore it is perfectly legitimate to launch any attacks on the users. 

It's like saying you shouldn't criticise fur coat wearers - only the fur coats themselves.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> To be fair, Apple don't really control the hype. They announce a product launch and give few hints. Mass hysteria and contagious media pant wetting then occurs.
> 
> I'm sure Apple aren't too fussed about the effect of their secrecy and past record, but they're not really in control of the circus that ensues.



This post shows just how good the Apple marketing department is


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

magneze said:


> I wonder if they've over-reached this time. The hype is so big that whatever they've done it's going to be disappointing.



Heh.. 

Jobs coming up on stage all sheepish. 
Shuffling nervously and mumbling about this 'prototype' tablet thing. 
Then tripping over and dropping it on the floor.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Why is Filter writing like Revol68 after he found the Ladybird book of marketing btw?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Similar happened for the iPhone launch....



with the added similarity that everyone knew it would be an ipod touch, with extras


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> This post shows just how good the Apple marketing department is


Yep.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm looking forward to the v4 of the Phone firmware much more than the tablet.  

The tablet I don't own and probably never will unless they can make a very impressive, compelling case for it tonight and I can't see how that would happen.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

I've worked with a goodly number of Apple marketeers on various tie-ups and promotions over the years

They're disturbingly ordinary.


Damn their agency and their secretive corporate culture giving them such an advantage.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> They're disturbingly ordinary.



Did you touch any of them?


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I'm looking forward to the v4 of the Phone firmware



v5 pisses on it you fucking luddite


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

Maybe they're multi-touch - that's the secret.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Why is Filter writing like Revol68 after he found the Ladybird book of marketing btw?



Another weak come back, old bean. Step it up


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> To be fair, Apple don't really control the hype. They announce a product launch and give few hints. Mass hysteria and contagious media pant wetting then occurs.
> 
> I'm sure Apple aren't too fussed about the effect of their secrecy and past record, but they're not really in control of the circus that ensues.



Oh the naivety


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Their protective aura stopped me, as did the halo shields.

TBH they're just another department. The difference is that they're representing a company with such clear focus and consistency from the leadership downwards. The marketing culture and focus on the detail is engrained throughout the whole company, ruthlessly so if anything.

It's an enviable position to be in for most I reckon. Witness the clarity of their product releases and matrix compared to the confused web of MS releases.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

People scrapping on here about a product that hasn't been announced yet is even better that the product itself.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

They have far fewer product lines too, which probably makes it easier too and only serves to heighten the excitement.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

Interesting article about security at Apple http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/technology/23apple.html



> Work spaces are typically monitored by security cameras, this employee said. Some Apple workers in the most critical product-testing rooms must cover up devices with black cloaks when they are working on them, and turn on a red warning light when devices are unmasked so that everyone knows to be extra-careful, he said.
> 
> Apple employees are often just as surprised about new products as everyone else.



(Reposted from early this morning.)


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm naive Filter? I'm not the one writing schoolboy level marketing guff with an indefensibly arbitrary use of 'lifestyle products' that doesn't hold water. Nor do I believe that one Cupertino company controls the world's media through hugely sophisticated micromanagement. They know the value of secrecy, but it's their track record that gets the media coming back again and again.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I've worked with a goodly number of Apple marketeers on various tie-ups and promotions over the years
> 
> They're disturbingly ordinary.
> 
> ...



Vast majority of Apple's marketing drones will just be carrying out the orders of the planners (who are very clever people).


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'm naive Filter? I'm not the one writing schoolboy level marketing guff with an indefensibly arbitrary use of 'lifestyle products' that doesn't hold water. Nor do I believe that one Cupertino company controls the world's media through hugely sophisticated micromanagement. They know the value of secrecy, but it's their track record that gets the media coming back again and again.



Blah, blah, blah  

(I note you don't object to any of my basic answer to magneze's question - it didn't need to be any more insightful than that)

(And I don't recall suggesting that Apple control any of the media :confused)


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

This thread will surely result in several bans once we've all wiped ourselves down at about 6.30...

Anyway, disappointingly it sounds like its gonna run iPhone OS... altho i think Apple's marketing people have been spending their time just spreading misinformation so that could be bollocks too.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> with the added similarity that everyone knew it would be an ipod touch, with extras



Thats not what happened, because the iphone was announced & came out in the USA quite a while before the ipod touch was announced.


----------



## electroplated (Jan 27, 2010)

Personally I'm hoping that they refresh the all Macbook Pro models and the iphone OS much more than announce a tablet device that I would actually want in addition to my laptop and ipod, but I've heard rumours the MBP refresh isn't going to be part of this event...


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Blimey. I didn't think anyone could take that 'answer' seriously, let alone object. It's a bit of oversimplified school-grade marketing gibberish that doesn't hold water. 

I can pick apart if you like - technology branding and mac user profiling used to be my baby after all - but I suspect it may deserve another thread to avoid a derail. Needless to say, whilst there's a hint of truth there, there's a whole load more guff and nonsense.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm kind of surprised no-one has yet brought up the issue of Apple's insensitivity in making this release on Holocaust Memorial Day.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I'm kind of surprised no-one has yet brought up the issue of Apple's insensitivity in making this release on Holocaust Memorial Day.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 27, 2010)

oh yeah  sorry stupid moment


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


>



http://www.hmd.org.uk/about/


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I'm kind of surprised no-one has yet brought up the issue of Apple's insensitivity in making this release on Holocaust Memorial Day.



I dont think that will be an issue unless they go with the slogan 'iPad will set you free'.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> http://www.hmd.org.uk/about/



Yes, I know what it is. Don't see why it should affect a product launch. 

Not even a Bank Holiday ffs!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

I'd also much prefer an updated iPhone - maybe a 1Tb model to house my record collection and some hi def movies and photos on. 32Gb is pretty shit really.


----------



## strung out (Jan 27, 2010)

iPad macht frei


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> 'iPad will set you free'.



<puts on rollerskates, grabs dog lead> Anyone got any balloons they don't need?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Blimey. I didn't think anyone could take that 'answer' seriously, let alone object. It's a bit of oversimplified school-grade marketing gibberish that doesn't hold water.
> 
> I can pick apart if you like - technology branding and mac user profiling used to be my baby after all - but I suspect it may deserve another thread to avoid a derail. Needless to say, whilst there's a hint of truth there, there's a whole load more guff and nonsense.



What did you expect from a quick response on a bulletin board? 

It was a two-pronged point. Buyer's remorse/damage to lifestyle choice by association. How those two basic points could contain both truth and a 'whole load more guff and nonsense' I don't know. Surely they're either wrong or right?

Flap, flap, flap!


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple 'iSlate'*




			
				teuchter said:
			
		

> I'm kind of surprised no-one has yet brought up the issue of Apple's insensitivity in making this release on Holocaust Memorial Day.



Hopefully you're a just a good deadpan comic. Otherwise you are a very, very odd person.
My instinct is plumping for the latter tbh.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

It doesn't even work as a two pronged point though. Start a thread on it and we can discuss if you like. 

It doesn't hold water. It's just a smartarse generalisation that makes a weird point of highlighting Apple as a lifestyle brand devoid of other brand qualities, with some weak buyer remorse guff tacked on. Oh and combined with some sneery guesswork into buyer motivation, extrapolated out to Apple as suppoed fact. As I say, feel free to start off another thread elsewhere


----------



## strung out (Jan 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Hopefully you're a just a good deadpan comic. Otherwise you are a very, very odd person.
> My instinct is plumping for the latter tbh.



i think it was a pastiche of johnny canuck's 'offline on 9/11' thread


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

strung_out said:


> iPad macht frei



IchPad macht frei, sicher?


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

Maybe all the hype is a smoke screen for the wonders that will be iLife10


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> It doesn't even work as a two pronged point though. Start a thread on it and we can discuss if you like.
> 
> It doesn't hold water. It's just a smartarse generalisation that makes a weird point of highlighting Apple as a lifestyle brand devoid of other brand qualities, with some weak buyer remorse guff tacked on. Oh and combined with some sneery guesswork into buyer motivation, extrapolated out to Apple as suppoed fact. As I say, feel free to start off another thread elsewhere



So you don't think a large chunk of Mac fanboys get defensive about Apple for the reasons I specified?


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

One fresh wheelbarrow load of condensed rumours coming up:


> Engadget  has pictures (see top of post) of what may be a prototype iTablet  bolted to a desk (like the key to the Fortress of Solitude, only Super  Steve Jobs is strong enough to lift it!).
> Fray publisher Derek Powazek has an excellent  post up outlining how he hopes Apple releases a device that makes  consuming premium media fun enough that people will buy formerly print  content from iTunes and the industry can finally monetize their work in  the digital age.
> Former Apple employee and current Palm developer relations  man-about-web, Chuq  Von Rospach follows up, saying that if Apple truly nails the  “content consumption” device, makes it easy to get and enjoy media,  they’ll cannibalize some laptop sales but will sell “zillions” of  iTablets.
> Wired  goes so far as to say Apple isn’t going to re-invent the up-until-now  failed tablet form factor but is going to re-invent content. Using an  HTML5 (WebKit) platform like iTunes LP and iTunes Extras, it’s going to  be as much about letting artists create for the iTablet as it is letting  users consume on it.
> ...


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Start a thread Filter, but rest assured I think you're being an oversimplistic goon, armed only with piss-weak generalisations.

Are you talking about mac owning (sigh) 'fanboys' or the more consumer level purchasers of Apple products recently. Is Apple any more of a lifestyle brand, more detached from a niche market, than its immediate competitors and many other questions. The thread could run.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> One fresh wheelbarrow load of condensed rumours coming up:



Good FSJ piece too.
http://www.fakesteve.net/2009/09/nobody-seems-to-realize-true.html



Tara/Chrisy? - get a room ladies.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i think it was a pastiche of johnny canuck's 'offline on 9/11' thread



Frankly it was outrageous, the way some people responded to JC's perfectly reasonable point on that thread.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Start a thread Filter, but rest assured I think you're being an oversimplistic goon, armed only with piss-weak generalisations.
> 
> Are you talking about mac owning (sigh) 'fanboys' or the more consumer level purchasers of Apple products recently. Is Apple any more of a lifestyle brand, more detached from a niche market, than its immediate competitors and many other questions. The thread could run.



Of course I'm being oversimplistic - it's an internet message board and I'm winding you up 

I'm talking about people who get oddly defensive when Apple are attacked, regardless of what they own.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm talking about people who get oddly defensive when Apple are attacked, regardless of what they own.



As said, I get defensive when I'm attacked. Not Apple.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Or the counterside is why are some inadequate types just so keen to try and wind up people largely happy with their purchases. If there's the phenomenon of the Apple fanboy, there's an even greater number of largely uninformed weirdos strangely committed to disliking the brand and making daft oversimplifications.

Oddly defensive my arse. Oddly quick to leap in with the daft oversimplifications and provocation more like.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

So anyway. The apple site is still staying resolutely mum.

anyone know if this ludicrous presentation is going to be broadcast?


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh and is Jonathan Ive still behind this?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Or the counterside is why are some inadequate types just so keen to try and wind up people largely happy with their purchases. If there's the phenomenon of the Apple fanboy, there's an even greater number of largely uninformed weirdos strangely committed to disliking the brand and making daft oversimplifications.
> 
> Oddly defensive my arse. Oddly quick to leap in with the daft oversimplifications and provocation more like.



 I don't dislike the brand. I love my iPhone.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Apple are hardly likely to leak product details on their own website, stealing Jobs' thunder are they?


I'd assume Ive's involved. Can't see why he wouldn't take an interest in all products off the line.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> As said, I get defensive when I'm attacked. Not Apple.



That's fair enough. Not seen anyone attacking you though.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 27, 2010)

not live video no, but the usual suspects will have live blogs, with pictures.

http://live.appleinsider.com
http://www.macrumorslive.com

Hit it at 6pm

Ive is still head of industrial design


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Apple are hardly likely to leak product details on their own website, stealing Jobs' thunder are they?
> 
> 
> I'd assume Ive's involved. Can't see why he wouldn't take an interest in all products off the line.



I would've thought they might promote the webcast if they're gonna show it


----------



## Crispy (Jan 27, 2010)

there's never a webcast, but you can usually download a recording shortly afterwards


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> That's fair enough. Not seen anyone attacking you though.


Indeed.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> That's fair enough. Not seen anyone attacking you though.



There's digs all over this thread at me regarding this launch, mainly lighthearted. Plenty in other threads cos I am an 'early adopter'. 

Early adopter of many things though, not just Apple products...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

Some twat is already listing the iPad/iSlate for sale on ebay and its got 28 bids at the moment 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-APPLE-ISL...iewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item4ced4b3955


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I don't dislike the brand. I love my iPhone.



To put this in context, you love your iphone after many months of auditioning competitor products - Nokia and HTC Hero iirc) and claiming that they were as good as the iphone. Before quietly changing over to the iphone, being won over by the clearly better system you had been quick to disparaged previously and whilst continuing to act reluctantly about the purchase because it came from Apple. You knows its true. 

 appreciate you being won over by the better product through gritted teeth and much procrastination, but let's not pretend that you're an unbiased commentator


I'm oddly indifferent about today. I'm sure it'll be a swish product, thought through into something more downright usable and compelling in product offering than previous tablet launches. I'm just not convinced that I need a new format for books and magazines in my life, nor that it'll beat a laptop and computer combination at home


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> To put this in context, you love your iphone after many months of auditioning competitor products - Nokia and HTC Hero iirc) and claiming that they were as good as the iphone. Before quietly changing over to the iphone, being won over by the clearly better system you had been quick to disparaged previously and whilst continuing to act reluctantly about the purchase because it came from Apple. You knows its true.
> 
> appreciate you being won over by the better product through gritted teeth and much procrastination, but let's not pretend that you're an unbiased commentator



But this is it, I AM unbiased! You are the one with bias. I would love a full spec MacBook Pro, they're lovely machines. I dislike the brand loyalty that Apple foster but that doesn't mean I don't like the products.

As for my purchases, I switched to the iPhone when it became a viable option for me. Before then I chose the best product for my needs.

Honestly, if you didn't react, I probably wouldn't say a thing about Apple.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Weirdos


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> To put this in context, you love your iphone after many months of auditioning competitor products - Nokia and HTC Hero iirc) and claiming that they were as good as the iphone. Before quietly changing over to the iphone, being won over by the clearly better system you had been quick to disparaged previously and whilst continuing to act reluctantly about the purchase because it came from Apple.


Or it may be that the iPhone has made such great improvements over the years that its feature set and particular set of compromises now appear more attractive than the current crop of alternatives which have failed to offer anything new?

Today's iPhone - crucially, backed by tens of thousands of apps and a vibrant developer community - is a far more compelling prospect than it was two years ago. After all, just five months ago it couldn't offer such rock bottom mobile basics like video, MMS and cut and paste, or features seen on other platforms like sat nav.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Like pish you wouldn't, not that you say anything worthwhile anyway.

I'm at a loss why you think Apple engenders special brand loyalty for anything other than the usual reasons. It's that bias of yours coming out again.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> After all, just five months ago it couldn't offer such rock bottom mobile basics like video, MMS and cut and paste, or features seen on other platforms like sat nav.



Exactly. And now it can, so now I have one.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Like pish you wouldn't, not that you say anything worthwhile anyway.
> 
> I'm at a loss why you think Apple engenders special brand loyalty for anything other than the usual reasons. It's that bias of yours coming out again.



 You're actually getting a bit upset now aren't you? 

I'm really just not that bothered about Apple themselves. Nice kit, but on the whole not for me. People who get so touchy about it, however, are fun to engage with. So I do.

A few months ago I advised a mate to get a MBP, she could afford it, she liked the idea of having a Mac, so I said 'do it'.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

No, I'm really not. I just dislike the Colin Hunt ('just a laugh innit') excuse used to justify posting a load of betty swollocks

I'm perfectly calm and shoving my gob full of Almond Joys if you must know.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Anyway. While we wait, here's a fairly lucid, non-hysterical view...

http://powazek.com/posts/2234

Which chimes well with me as a print designer as it might not necessarily mean I'll be having to learn web anytime soon if i want to make a living. Altho I'm not sure how long they'll stick to PDF in reality.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> No, I'm really not. I just dislike the Colin Hunt ('just a laugh innit') excuse used to justify posting a load of betty swollocks
> 
> I'm perfectly calm and shoving my gob full of Almond Joys if you must know.



I haven't posted any bollocks


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

RIGHT. I'm going to the shops. By the time I get back, I expect you _all_ to have settled down before Mr Jobs starts.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh yes you have. You'll recall that I invited you to start another thread to discuss your sub-revol level gibberish and avoid derailing this thread.

Anyway, two and bit hours to the this tablet lark. Feel the lack of excitement from here.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Which chimes well with me as a print designer as it might not necessarily mean I'll be having to learn web anytime soon if i want to make a living. Altho I'm not sure how long they'll stick to PDF in reality.


Although if it's delivered through a proprietary format which Apple solely controls, that may not be so hokey-cokey.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

I suspect it'd be more of a AAC style format if anything - its own or rebadged filetype, but one open to others to use as well


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Oh yes you have. You'll recall that I invited you to start another thread to discuss your sub-revol level gibberish and avoid derailing this thread.



Only because you couldn't succintly put paid to my suggestions.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

T minus 2 hours


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

2 hours, 17 minutes until the Apple Media Event

Timer here: http://www.macrumors.com/


----------



## mincepie (Jan 27, 2010)

"1 hour, 58 minutes until the Apple Media Event - *Tablet rumored to be launched*." 

I'd laught my self silly if no tablet came out.

Still I like the idea. But not the price.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

This is more exciting than when Channel 5 launched with the Spice Girls.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Good grief. Someone give this woman from the Telegraph a reality check: 


> It will make us fall in love with the printed word again...
> 
> It will introduce new ways of interacting with the world around us...
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...the-Apple-iTablet-could-change-our-lives.html


The comments are lively for the Telegraph too.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/frantic_steve_jobs_stays_up


----------



## ohmyliver (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/frantic_steve_jobs_stays_up



that article is actually trending on twitter now.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

No matter how cool this product is. Steve Jobs will never out do Steve Balmer's entrance for a microsoft keynote


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> RIGHT. I'm going to the shops. By the time I get back, I expect you _all_ to have settled down before Mr Jobs starts.



Mr Jobs should start his speech by telling everyone he's not going to begin until everyone in the internet has stopped bickering.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Although if it's delivered through a proprietary format which Apple solely controls, that may not be so hokey-cokey.



They have a reasonably good track record in this regard - h.264 standard video, various other things done with html5, css3, canvas and webGL and any additions to these being given over to the standards bodies.

Some of this was clouded in the dark days of DRM but hopefully that wont be an issue now, although I suppose it could be.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> They have a reasonably good track record in this regard - h.264 standard video, various other things done with html5, css3, canvas and webGL and any additions to these being given over to the standards bodies.
> 
> Some of this was clouded in the dark days of DRM but hopefully that wont be an issue now, although I suppose it could be.


Apart from the App Store of course, which they retain _sole and absolute control _over what gets allowed onto a user's phone.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

macrumors seems to have finally crashed under the sheer weight of expectation


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Ah its back


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Apart from the App Store of course, which they retain _sole and absolute control _over what gets allowed onto a user's phone.



So? That doesnt have anything to do with them using proprietary formats or not.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> macrumors seems to have finally crashed under the sheer weight of expectation



Leo Laporte's TWIT Live coverage is also AWOL.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> macrumors seems to have finally crashed under the sheer weight of expectation



Working here...


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Gizmodo are in the lobby. "We just saw Jon Ive, and he is drinking brandy like a classy son of a bitch."


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Jesus. This is worse than those religous channels u get in hotel rooms in the us

http://www.ustream.tv/leolaporte#utm_campaign=flive&utm_source=1&utm_medium=technology-computers


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Stephen Fry's there


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Stephen Fry's there



You don't get more faithful than Fry. Not since Douglas Adams sadly left us.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm going to laugh my arse off if after this massive thread building up to the announcement they show nothing more than the 4th Gen iPhone and OS 4.0. Not a tablet in sight.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I'm going to laugh my arse off if after this massive thread building up to the announcement they show nothing more than the 4th Gen iPhone and OS 4.0. Not a tablet in sight.



I'm hoping for the same thing  I cant imagine any use I'd have for a tablet computer. However I'm interested to see whats coming next for the iPhone.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

This video feed is making me want to punch myself in both eyes and ears. Jesus.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> This video feed is making me want to punch myself in both eyes and ears. Jesus.



What video feed?


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

The godawful link i posted up there


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I'm going to laugh my arse off if after this massive thread building up to the announcement they show nothing more than the 4th Gen iPhone and OS 4.0. Not a tablet in sight.



There won't be a 4th gen iPhone yet.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Mr Jobs should start his speech by telling everyone he's not going to begin until everyone in the internet has stopped bickering.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Engadget are in, and noting the table and chair on the stage... "very unusual for an Apple event".


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Big debate happening about the choice of Dylan for this. Wonder what this can mean....


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Big debate happening about the choice of Dylan for this. Wonder what this can mean....



Ha ha... it's like the life of Brian... "It's a sign, it's a sign!"

Wonder when they'll start interpreting the colour of the seats.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Debate still raging. Could it be significant?


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Ha ha... it's like the life of Brian... "It's a sign, it's a sign!"
> 
> Wonder when they'll start interpreting the colour of the seats.



They already did that. Seriously.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

What a load of shit.

I fuking hate myself for caring about this


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Debate still raging. Could it be significant?



I think we are hitting the point of 'peak insanity'


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

I went to an Apple launch once. It was the only place I've ever been where a flash memory upgrade was cheered.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Debate still raging. Could it be significant?



The times they are a changin.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

The lights are going down!!!!!


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

I can hear whooping!


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> I went to an Apple launch once. It was the only place I've ever been where a flash memory upgrade was cheered.



Bet you no one cheered the socks though. The socks were the true low point.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

lady commentator

'We're so close now.. hang on'


----------



## mincepie (Jan 27, 2010)

Feels like this is the most hyped thing since Windows 95!


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Jobs on stage


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

I think I'm gonna cum


----------



## mincepie (Jan 27, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> I think I'm gonna cum



Hahahaa made me laugh!


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

The bells in the church tower opposite my appt. have just gone crazy - seriously


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> I think I'm gonna cum



I've gone early. Hopefully I'll be back up to readiness in a bit.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

Job's voice is nearly as annoying as Bill Gates


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Why would anyone applaud a company announcing its own vast profits?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Job's voice is nearly as annoying as Bill Gates



Where are you getting audio from?


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

I always did hate foreplay. Bring it stevie.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Where are you getting audio from?



UStream.tv

crappy mobile phone quality though...

and it just cut out  oh its back again


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Reaaallly bigging this up, waaaaay more than usual... the whole history bit... even a photo with Woz in it. Unheard of.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Yay my bet that it will be called iPad was right.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

MOD... EDIT THREAD TITLE PLEASE!

iPad it is


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

here it is!!!


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Massive bezel. I can only think they had to do that to overcome torsional glass-break problem.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Nice.... shit.. fuck.... ooooarggh. jesus.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> MOD... EDIT THREAD TITLE PLEASE!
> 
> iPad it is


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

It's chunkier than I though it would be.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It's chunkier than I though it would be.



yeh yeh, they all say that


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


>



It comes with a free miniature Steve Jobs head in the task bar, I note.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)




----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It's chunkier than I though it would be.



Me too.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

Just realised I cant think of a physical stance that would make two handed typing on that tablet comfortable.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 27, 2010)

What a load of shit


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

I can see much (on this crappy little iPhone that is so last decade) but it seems well received. Suprised at the iPad thing


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> It comes with a free miniature Steve Jobs head in the task bar, I note.



You can probably disable that.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh Hai


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> It's chunkier than I though it would be.



Innit, thought there'd be less room around the screen too. Will have to see it up close to be sure but this isn't as slick looking as I expected...


----------



## 43mhz (Jan 27, 2010)

It's just a bigger iPod Touch.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Right. well. underwhelmed. I'm out to the pub to prepare for the United victory tonight.

Blue balls.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Just realised I cant think of a physical stance that would make two handed typing on that tablet comfortable.



Same as a laptop, no?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

Wow, that really isn't as pretty looking as I thought it would be...


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Same as a laptop, no?



No its totally different. Think about it. Laying it flat on a table/lap would be horrible. Other option is to hold with one hand like a clipboard and type which would be equally as shit.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Same as a laptop, no?



Well, no.  A laptop lets you put the screen and keyboard at angles to suit your position.  That can't.


----------



## twistedAM (Jan 27, 2010)

43mhz said:


> It's just a bigger iPod Touch.



that you can read a book on...quick response to Amazon's thingy?


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Innit, thought there'd be less room around the screen too. Will have to see it up close to be sure but this isn't as slick looking as I expected...



Thing is that there are lots of times where you dont want your hands obscuring the screen. Battery life, weight and how warm it gets are potentially larger problems.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

Any news on a price?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, no.  A laptop lets you put the screen and keyboard at angles to suit your position.  That can't.



Neither can paper on a desk. You read and write on one plane.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

I feel overwhelmed, underwhelmed and a bit hungry.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Apple really is shooting itself in the foot massively by not casting this themselves. Instead letting very very dodgy, geeky pirate versions go. Weird.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Neither can paper on a desk. You read and write on one plane.



You write with one hand and the process of using a pen is extremely different to typing.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Apple really is shooting itself in the foot massively by not casting this themselves. Instead letting very very dodgy, geeky pirate versions go. Weird.



It wont cost them a single sale though will it really? And they will make it available later, plus there is likely to be a delay before availability of the actual device to give people plenty of time to drool.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh. That is a bit disappointing. It looks like a digital photo frame with it's big old bezel.

And it's got a backlit screen, so no better to read on than a normal screen.

Ah well. Got an iPhone and got an ebook reader, so it seems I have all bases covered already.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> It wont cost them a single sale though will it really? And they will make it available later, plus there is likely to be a delay before availability of the actual device to give people plenty of time to drool.



It doesn't do their slick image any good. And people are far from drooling over an oversized iphone anyway.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

is there a live stream?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You read and write on one plane.



Using a pen is nothing like typing.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Apple site still up & running. Guess it's not ready for sale.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 27, 2010)

It looks completely crap


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Im not sure typing a lot on tablets will ever be really good, they will try to focus on tasks that dont require too much typing, and perhaps an option to use separate bluetooth keyboard if you want to do more typing.

9.7" display.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Apple site still up & running. Guess it's not ready for sale.


It's unlikely to be launched till at least May, I reckon.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

So far it's just a big iphone.  If they haven't got something up their sleeve it's utterly pointless.


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Apple really is shooting itself in the foot massively by not casting this themselves. Instead letting very very dodgy, geeky pirate versions go. Weird.



part of the hype innit. It'll be on youtube within minutes.

My partner going to be happy at least I'm not going to blowing the housekeeping. I'll stick with my Ipod-touch and MBP.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

I'll be stickin to my iMac and iPod touch for when im on the move... why the hell would u invest in that?? There's nothing added so far.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It's unlikely to be launched till at least May, I reckon.



March if we are really lucky. June at the worst.

10 hours of battery (so probably 5-8 hours depending on what you are doing)

16 to 64GB storage.

Hardware is turning out to be quite close to what I expected. Seen some people act surprised that it doesnt seem to have flash support, dont know why they were expecting it to have flash, think its quite clear apple has a strategy to sideline flash.

Want to know what the screen res is.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

No stream then. Oh well. Looked crap on Sky News before they cut away. Big iPhone. Big Whoop.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 27, 2010)

any multitasking shown yet?


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Crucially for an apple product, it doesn't look good. Coz lets face it, thats half the reason we love them...

Whats with the massive black border? Thats the shit thing about it. Course we dont know the price yet.


----------



## Janh (Jan 27, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> part of the hype innit...




Hype? What hype?



Great image from Wirefresh


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

10 hours of video is pretty good, even allowing for a reality version of that number.

Am slightly underwhelmed though. Nothing overly wrong with it, but no OMG feature.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

So, is it a phone as well or just a big Touch?


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

magneze said:


> No stream then. Oh well. Looked crap on Sky News before they cut away. Big iPhone. Big Whoop.



http://www.ustream.tv/leolaporte#utm_campaign=flive&utm_source=1&utm_medium=technology-computers

Thats as good as you'll get. Prepare to curl those toes.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

What were people expecting that are underwhelmed? I perhaps expected more in terms of UI evolution and some more killer apps, but other than that its as expected.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 27, 2010)

I would like Photoshop on it so i could draw on it..


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> Want to know what the screen res is.



Me too.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> http://www.ustream.tv/leolaporte#utm_campaign=flive&utm_source=1&utm_medium=technology-computers
> 
> Thats as good as you'll get. Prepare to curl those toes.


Cheers. Something to watch whilst cooking tea.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Whats with the massive black border? Thats the shit thing about it. Course we dont know the price yet.



Its where your thumbs will go when you hold it without obscuring the screen. It makes it look a bit clunky but without that space people would be upset when they actually came to hold one to read or watch stuff on.


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Thats as good as you'll get. Prepare to curl those toes.



i'm starting to warm to them


----------



## dogmatique (Jan 27, 2010)

No mention of 3G.  Which limits it A LOT.  I presume tethering to the iphone so you can drain_ its_ battery instead of the iPad.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> Its where your thumbs will go when you hold it without obscuring the screen. It makes it look a bit clunky but without that space people would be upset when they actually came to hold one to read or watch stuff on.



Good point.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Ok, so no flash... again.. what the fuck is going on there?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 27, 2010)

I can't believe this does not take a sim for a 3G network.  No mention of this so far?

Apple of all people now know that being fully connected is quite an important aspect of such a device.  Just empowering it with Wifi really cripples its as a device.  Still no mention of connectivity yet, I could be wrong.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Ok, so no flash... again.. what the fuck is going on there?



Apple want to avoid flash for more than one reason. Probably to do with wanting to make sure developers do things apples way, a few practical issues with performance & battery, multitouch issues, and perhaps some conflict between Apple and Adobe.

I dont mind this at all because as an alternative to flash apple have done good things for web standards, such as hardware accelerated css transforms and support of the html5 video tag.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Ok, so no flash... again.. what the fuck is going on there?



It's an OS by proxy. Doesn't fit Jobs world view, i.e. a heavily controlled one.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

The proprietary NYT reader is all very well, but there really needs to be a generic Apple reader.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It's an OS by proxy. Doesn't fit Jobs world view, i.e. a heavily controlled one.



Christ. I think I'm starting to see the editor's point about apple being a wolf in sheep's clothing. 

Flash, like it or not, is industry standard for illegally watching football. So fuck apple, and fuck their stupid massive iphone.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> The proprietary NYT reader is all very well, but there really needs to be a generic Apple reader.



Yes they seem to have fallen well short of what people were expecting in the ebook distribution department. 

This combined with the seeming lack of 3G and a few other omissions is indeed likely to result in quite a wave of disappointment. 

Price even more important now. 

A giant ipod touch was all I really needed to meet my minimum desires so Im not gutted, but this event has not thus far made it any easier to judge whether the tablet format is going to achieve mass success via Apple.


----------



## mitochondria (Jan 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> It comes with a free miniature Steve Jobs head in the task bar, I note.



THAT may convince me it is something more than ipod xxl


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It's an OS by proxy.



Whats that supposed to mean


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2010)

I can't help but to think


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

iBooks!


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Whats that supposed to mean



It means people could develop apps with flash and get them onto the iphone without going through apples app store, thus bypassing apples control freakery and an important revenue stream.

As a developer who likes open standards and free dev tools, I want flash (and silverlight) to fade away and apples control freakery happens to serve that end, its not their primary intent and obviously there is a hideous downside but it just happens to serve an open browser based html & css agenda that I welcome.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Flash already does all that baseball shit... has done for years. I guess they really are gonna try n take over their space.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Looks liek I spoke too soon about the lack of ebook stuff.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> It means people could develop apps with flash and get them onto the iphone without going through apples app store, thus bypassing apples control freakery and an important revenue stream.
> 
> As a developer who likes open standards and free dev tools, I want flash (and silverlight) to fade away and apples control freakery happens to serve that end, its not their primary intent and obviously there is a hideous downside but it just happens to serve an open browser based html & css agenda that I welcome.



Saying its a OS by proxy is a really weird way to describe that!

There is already other methods available other than writing in objective-c and distributing through the app store. Which apple have demonstrated they dont have an issue with, so I dont understand the point that your trying to make.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> iBooks!



iStrain.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Something in the reader just got a big cheer.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

They can have all the book sin the world on it, they'll still be fucking horrible to read.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Saying its a OS by proxy is a really weird way to describe that!
> 
> There is already other methods available other than writing in objective-c and distributing through the app store. Which apple have demonstrated they dont have an issue with, so I dont understand the point that your trying to make.



I do. Perfectly valid point n' all.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

iBook store


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Saying its a OS by proxy is a really weird way to describe that!
> 
> There is already other methods available other than writing in objective-c and distributing through the app store. Which apple have demonstrated they dont have an issue with, so I dont understand the point that your trying to make.



Well I wouldnt go quite that far, and I did already mention many other reasons that Apple arent keen to bring flash to these devices.

Before the app store apple did promote the idea of people writing webapps, these were the only option when the iphone first launched, and they were not enough to make people happy, although they work fine for certain applications. 

Anyway the bitching about lack of flash went on for ages after iphone launch so I thought most people had gotten over it.

Already stated that I am biased because I want to see flash largely eliminated from the web within 5-10 years.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

God i need a shave


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

OK, more interesting now. iWork means it's not just a scaled up iPhone.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> Already stated that I am biased because I want to see flash largely eliminated from the web within 5-10 years.



I agree with you, right now my money is on HTML5 to do it.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Are there any women on this thread? Not in any leery way. Just out of interest. Im thinking not.


----------



## zenie (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> God i need a shave


 
Is there an app for that? 

Hmm watching this awful sounding feed, someone just blew their nose. 

I'm a girl....


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

zenie said:


> Is there an app for that?
> 
> Hmm watching this awful sounding feed, someone just blew their nose.



They weren't blowing their nose


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Christ. I think I'm starting to see the editor's point about apple being a wolf in sheep's clothing.
> 
> Flash, like it or not, is industry standard for illegally watching football. So fuck apple, and fuck their stupid massive iphone.


----------



## strung out (Jan 27, 2010)

my facebook fan page just got deleted 



> The page "iPad sucks!" has been removed because it violated our Terms of Use. A Facebook Page is a distinct presence used solely for business or promotional purposes. Among other things, Pages that are hateful, threatening, or obscene are not allowed. We also take down Pages that attack an individual or group, or that are set up by an unauthorized individual. If your Page was removed for any of the above reasons, it will not be reinstated. Continued misuse of Facebook's features could result in your account being disabled.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns, you can visit the Terms applicable to Facebook Pages at http://www.facebook.com/terms_pages.php.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

The iWork stuff means they can probably get away with a fairly high pricetag and still sell quite a lot of these.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 27, 2010)

iPad? Don't american's call the iPod this?


----------



## Structaural (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm well underwhelmed. iTlooks pants.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> The iWork stuff means they can probably get away with a fairly high pricetag and still sell quite a lot of these.



What is iWork? An office suite?


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

http://www.apple.com/iwork/


----------



## Crispy (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Interesting software, especially iWork. Form factor looks about right. You need a wide border to grip your thumb. I think the work they've done here is very good, this is an interface made for a touchscreen this big and that's not been done right before.

But. I don't want one. I can't see the gap in my life that this would fill


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

So that's was iWork. Jobs back now.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Current female count on thread is 1 btw. Zenie. You rock.


----------



## spacemonkey (Jan 27, 2010)

I want to hear about new Macbook Pros.


----------



## grit (Jan 27, 2010)

Using a tablet for office applications would such a painful experience i dont want to think about it.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

3G


----------



## dogmatique (Jan 27, 2010)

On only the most expensive model, no doubt.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Interesting software, especially iWork. Form factor looks about right. You need a wide border to grip your thumb. I think the work they've done here is very good, this is an interface made for a touchscreen this big and that's not been done right before.
> 
> But. I don't want one. I can't see the gap in my life that this would fill



I kinda agree with this. 

Assuming this was £600 I would get a lot of IT kit I have been waiting to buy and have enough left over for a cheap netbook.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

3G Option (US)

250Mb/month = $14.99
Unlimited = $29.99


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Ahh the poor Americans and their expensive networks and AT&T exclusivity. Not that the UK will probably fare too much better.

The downside of 3G is the potential for it not launching in the UK at the same time as the USA.


----------



## dogmatique (Jan 27, 2010)

Another exclusive carrier in the UK I wonders?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

US 3G Deal is no contract.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Summer for international customers but sounds like may still be able to get device sooner.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Price!

$499 wow!!


----------



## dogmatique (Jan 27, 2010)

That' s pretty amazing!  16GB wifi...


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

REAAAALLY Wasn't expecting that.


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

where would I use it, it's too big to carry around in a everyday sense particularly once it's sleeved.  My MBP has the power I need and my ipodtouch has superseded that for when I'm out and about. A mac-mini and ACD takes care of things at home.

Actually, it would be really useful in the toilet! could've called it ishit.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Ships in 60 days. Worldwide for WiFi models


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> REAAAALLY Wasn't expecting that.



Um that means £600 over here. For a big iPod touch.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Using a tablet for office applications would such a painful experience i dont want to think about it.



But quickly updating a presentation and then displaying it to a small room or linking to an AV system would be comparatively effortless. I don't think anyone's claiming it to be a replacement for a mac or pc.

I'm a bit meh, but then again I've never bought into the desire for a tablet. It's a decently executed stab at the idea, a reasonable combination of hardware and software that hasn't really been offered as a comprehensive package before. This isn't just a reskin of a traditonal desktop OS. Quality content will be key and I'm still not convinced that there's a big enough immediate market for this thing. I don't doubt that publishers will be quickly over this thing though. It'd be interesting to see what they come up with and if they can get a sense of momentum going.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jan 27, 2010)

PAPER FUCKING LAUNCH!?

  

That is all.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Um that means £600 over here. For a big iPod touch.



No idea where you're getting that from.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Um that means £600 over here. For a big iPod touch.



Not necessarily. 

Still the 64GB 3G model is loads more $829 I think he said.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> PAPER FUCKING LAUNCH!?
> 
> 
> 
> That is all.



Hardly a surprise, they did it with the iphone.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> No idea where you're getting that from.



They jack up the prices when they export them, regardless of the exchange rate.

Like the stand/cover thing btw.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> They jack up the prices when they export them, regardless of the exchange rate.
> 
> Like the stand/cover thing btw.



Go and compare product prices on the Apple US site and UK site, then come back and tell us what you find.

It's not $499 = £600


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> They jack up the prices when they export them, regardless of the exchange rate.
> 
> Like the stand/cover thing btw.



Well VAT is part of the reason, and the actual price tends to vary as to how much more it is than the actual exchange rate. When the pound started to weaken against the dollar, they didnt put their prices up immediately, but that was because they had something of a buffer.

Ripoff Britain isnt quite as bad as it used to be a decade ago regarding us versus uk prices.


----------



## dogmatique (Jan 27, 2010)

Generally the prices are like for like when you take VAT into account etc.  499 bucks is likely to be 499 quid...


----------



## Crispy (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Keyboard dock is interesting.


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

I agree - on software updates it's usually $1 ='s £1


----------



## spacemonkey (Jan 27, 2010)

$129 extra for 3g?! They know everyone will want 3g.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Using an Apple 'exchange rate' derived from the basic MacBook ($999 / £819)...

$499 converts to £409

So not £600 at all then gabi.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

spacemonkey said:


> $129 extra for 3g?! They know everyone will want 3g.



Yep. Classic sell up.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

That's it folks!


----------



## mitochondria (Jan 27, 2010)

zenie said:


> Is there an app for that?



not yet


----------



## 43mhz (Jan 27, 2010)

It's growing on me.. I don't think the Home screen does it any favours.. looks dated.. I'm very interested to see how some of the music apps scale up/developed.. like Beatmaker.. Noise io.. even the piano app.. I can see some potential for music production vst type plug-in apps..


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

So, anyone think that _wasn't_ something of an anticlimax


----------



## spacemonkey (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> That's it folks!



I can hear millions of people thinking - "Meh, I'll stick with my iPhone & laptop".


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

Ok, fair enough, I'm shit at maths, but I've done a quick attempt here based on apple's site...

iMac in the UK - £969.00 ($1,565)
iMac in the US - $1,199

Which is pretty different in my mind, hence why i always buy my stuff over there. happy to be proved wrong though.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 27, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> No mention of 3G.  Which limits it A LOT.  I presume tethering to the iphone so you can drain_ its_ battery instead of the iPad.



TBH I'd see that as a good thing or else you'll end up getting stung for two data packages. I wonder if its just the iphone you'll be able to tether it to or other mobile devices?


----------



## mitochondria (Jan 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Using a tablet for office applications would such a painful experience i dont want to think about it.



more like portable display for meetings, etc.


----------



## dogmatique (Jan 27, 2010)

wouldn't suprise me if they cripple tethering to make you buy the most expensive one.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 27, 2010)

No phone calls?  If you've got a 3g connection why no phone calls?  They didn't make ripping the sim out of the iPhone particularly easy so that will just be annoying.  Is there bluetooth?

So who wants one then?

I quite like it, but I'm sitting here with a desktop and a laptop and an iPhone.  Do I really want or even need to splash out on it?  Does it offer me anything new? I don't thing it does.  So from that stand point its all a bit *meh*

I look forward to the update to the iPhone which clearly isn't today.

e2a: Well bluetooth is there but that 10 quid a month extra on o2


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

I heard the iWork stuff. Touchscreen spreadsheets. LOL. Massive hype fail.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

My initial reaction (as posted on Wirefresh - which has just had a record amount of hits for one day!):


> Our initial reaction is that we’re a little underwhelmed after all the hype.
> Sure, it looks better than any netbook we’ve ever seen, but we’re finding it hard to find what niche this is going to fill.
> For portable emailing and web browsing, we’ve got our iPhones, and for knocking out large amounts of text, a cheap £200 netbook will do the job just fine.
> With the iPad offering no memory card slot, it wont be so hot for quickly backing up photos when were on the move, and seeing as it can’t run industry standard programs like Photoshop, it looks like we’ll still need to pack our netbook or small laptops when we’re out on assignment.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

If I had £400+ right now I'd get a new laptop.

I could see myself getting something like this one day though, with one specific need: As an SLR tether for shoots. Lots of photographers use netbooks / laptops for this at the moment, but a 10hr battery tablet would be waaaay better. Keyboard largely irrelevant for that application. Multi touch massively beneficial.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 27, 2010)

I can imagine that someone would want to look at a spreadsheet with one rather than edit one but for the odd edit, it might be OK.

Today Apple lost the momentum of the iPhone, until they release the next iPhone of course.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> If I had £400+ right now I'd get a new laptop.
> 
> I could see myself getting something like this one day though, with one specific need: As an SLR tether for shoots. Lots of photographers use netbooks / laptops for this at the moment, but a 10hr battery tablet would be waaaay better. Keyboard largely irrelevant for that application. Multi touch massively beneficial.



Still waitin on your response. Are my maths off?


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

So let me get this straight, I have to take out a seperate monthly contract from my mobile phone (which has unlimited data), just for data?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

Ah well... what can I spend the £1k I had set aside for this on now!!!


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I could see myself getting something like this one day though, with one specific need: As an SLR tether for shoots.


Shame there's no SD card slot though.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> So let me get this straight, I have to take out a seperate monthly contract from my mobile phone (which has unlimited data), just for data?



Only if you buy one


----------



## Sunray (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> If I had £400+ right now I'd get a new laptop.
> 
> I could see myself getting something like this one day though, with one specific need: As an SLR tether for shoots. Lots of photographers use netbooks / laptops for this at the moment, but a 10hr battery tablet would be waaaay better. Keyboard largely irrelevant for that application. Multi touch massively beneficial.



With the IPS display they really missed a trick with the photographer. Being able to have a such a good quality display to preview pictures would have many of them standing outside queueing up with the geeks.  No memory card reader and they have gimped it.  Why have an IPS display if your not going to use it for photos.


----------



## zenie (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Ah well... what can I spend the £1k I had set aside for this on now!!!


 
new iphone will be a few hundred quid, I'm annoyed they didn't announce it


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm knackered after knocking out five articles on Wirefresh about this in 90 minutes - and having to listen to those fucking awful US webcasters the whole time.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

What it offers me that is new is the ability to access the web whilst lounging in bed, without the screen being too small or the os & interaction getting on my tits, or a fan & exhaust spitting hot air and making a noise. There are a few other devices around that could probably get close to doing this too, but they have limitations I dont like. The limitations of this iPad, and there are certainly some, arent ones that bother me.

The only thing I might be disappointed about is the screen res - it wasnt mentioned and the words HD werent used as far as I noticed, so I guess it will be below the 1280x800 I had hoped for. Perhaps it is 960X640, which would be amusing to me because when I was pondering best res for a tablet years ago, and what res I should use for HD video, I had quite a fling with 960x something resolutions.

I intend to buy the cheapest model (or maybe the 32GB depending on price) as soon as I can (60 days if initial stock is enough to meet demand or I get lucky) for development purposes. If I wasnt planning to develop on one then I would probably still buy one as I have no doubt there will be quite a few killer apps written for it. Then at my leisure I will decide whether to upgrade to a 3G one, Im not sure 'everyone will want one' but I dont anticipate too much trouble reselling the non-3G one I will get first.


----------



## zenie (Jan 27, 2010)

Fuck that, buy a 27" imac!


----------



## tarannau (Jan 27, 2010)

Touchscreen presentation and mapping software could be promising mind.

As most others I'm a bit meh. But on the other hand what would have really won people over given that it's a tablet? I'm cynical, but I can't help feeling that tablets will take off at some point and this is as good and comprehensive stab as any. If the content becomes compelling it could have wings.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Ah well... what can I spend the £1k I had set aside for this on now!!!



Five Asus Eee PC 1008HA Seashell netbooks? 

Nearly 20TB of storage


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Still waitin on your response. Are my maths off?



Your second attempt looked ok. 

Using the MacBook as an example, the exchange rate is about 1.22 Apple Dollars to 1.00 Apple Pounds

So yep, cheaper to buy in the US, but still not 1:1 $:£ or worse.

£409 UK, base price, using that model.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Shame there's no SD card slot though.



Huge fail IMO.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

If people view this as a 'take everywhere' product, which it is (it'll easily fit in any standard document holder), then I can see people ditching their expensive smartphones, going for a basic phone on a cheap sim only rolling contract, and using the spare £20pcm on a plan for this. That's how I'm selling it to myself right now...


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Shame there's no SD card slot though.



True, although in my 'future world', the SLR will have WiFi and it'll tether & transfer via that.

Also I don't shoot RAW so for me onboard storage isn't an issue.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

Two docks, one at home and one at work, you're sorted... Elimantes the need for an SD card slot for most, hardcore photographers excepted.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

Better off with a Toshiba NB200 or even a Nokia Booklet if you really want to spend that much.


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Your second attempt looked ok.
> 
> Using the MacBook as an example, the exchange rate is about 1.22 Apple Dollars to 1.00 Apple Pounds
> 
> ...



I bow to your ability with maths, i made a valiant attempt tho, considering im numerically dyslexic if there is such a thing 

Off to the pub to shout at people kicking a ball around on tv. better than shouting at geeks filming geeks filming geeks on the webz.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

zenie said:


> Fuck that, buy a 27" imac!



Got a 24", can't justify a 27"


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> Two docks, one at home and one at work



= more £££s to get it to do what you want.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> = more £££s to get it to do what you want.



Yup. I'd imagine an additional dock will retail at about £59.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Leo Laporte now doing his MacBreak weekly live from some camp chairs in front of the building. Funny. He's king of the tech podcasts. He's kicking off a full day of analysis!


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Also I don't shoot RAW so for me onboard storage isn't an issue.


Sure, but you've GOT to back up when you're on your travels. When I was in the US, I backed up to my netbook first, and then to a portable HD (as well as the original CD card), and uploaded the important images.

The iTab would be useless for any of that.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 27, 2010)

No SMS app? 

Its a pimped out and then gimped out iPhone. 

Of no interest to me in the slightest.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Sure, but you've GOT to back up when you're on your travels. When I was in the US, I backed up to my netbook first, and then to a portable HD (as well as the original CD card), and uploaded the important images.
> 
> The iTab would be useless for any of that.



Surely there'll be a third party device that turns the dock connector into an SD reader within weeks of launch?


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Ahh a spec page:

Its 1024x768 res and we dont get to find out the UK pricing today.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> Surely there'll be a third party device that turns the dock connector into an SD reader within weeks of launch?



That doesnt usually happen with these sorts of Apple devices.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Sure, but you've GOT to back up when you're on your travels.



It would be ok for me. The longest shoot I've done before returning to base was about 2.5gb. So easy enough to keep on both cards and the tablet. OK, so there's no third backup, but two places is enough for me.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

At the bottom of the spec page:

iPad Camera Connection Kit
The Camera Connection Kit gives you two ways to import photos and videos from a digital camera. The Camera Connector lets you import your photos and videos to iPad using the camera’s USB cable. Or you can use the SD Card Reader to import photos and videos directly from the camera’s SD card.


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2010)

1024x768 ... if you need a keyboard then the resolution is what? 1024x384? Oh dear.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

I've got pretty much the same reaction to it as I did to the first iPhone - nice, but missing a few things that seem essential.

iPad V3 will doubt be a great product


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

Quick show of hands - is there anyone here that thinks reading a book on it will actually be a pleasant experience and worth bothering with?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> That doesnt usually happen with these sorts of Apple devices.



Look down. 

http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Quick show of hands - is there anyone here that thinks reading a book on it will actually be a pleasant experience and worth bothering with?



Dunno. I think I'd have to try it. Won't be anywhere near as good as paper obviously.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> I've got pretty much the same reaction to it as I did to the first iPhone - nice, but missing a few things that seem essential.
> 
> iPad V3 will doubt be a great product



Yep thinking much the same. I'd like to see more storage, an SD card slot, bigger screen, front facing camera, any news on multitasking?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> any news on multitasking?



No.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> any news on multitasking?



Nope.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> Quick show of hands - is there anyone here that thinks reading a book on it will actually be a pleasant experience and worth bothering with?



Can't see it myself, back light screens hurt my eyes, e ink like the Sony ereaders doesn't. Be interesting  to see Sony's response to this. 

Looks like I'm still on track to get a dedicated ebook reader...


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Look down.
> 
> http://www.apple.com/ipad/specs/



Yes I saw that and posted about it after my previous comments, and I was referring to 3rd party hardware addons.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

> Quick show of hands - is the anyone here that thinks reading a book on it will actually be a pleasant experience and worth bothering with?


For me that's the biggest disapointment, if this had replaced the kindle I think I'd have been sold.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

No multitasking according to Engadget...


----------



## Gromit (Jan 27, 2010)

Apple eye pad?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> Yes I saw that and posted about it after my previous comments, and I was referring to 3rd party hardware addons.



Soz - me not keeping up. I've Leo Laporte chatting away in another window.


----------



## zenie (Jan 27, 2010)

What happened to handwriting recognition? Did I miss it


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

zenie said:


> What happened to handwriting recognition? Did I miss it



You didn't miss it, although it appears Apple did


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

zenie said:


> What happened to handwriting recognition? Did I miss it



Yes, you missed that.

It was in 1989 and didn't really work:


----------



## gabi (Jan 27, 2010)

zenie said:


> What happened to handwriting recognition? Did I miss it



Nah, its not in there.

It's a giant iPhone.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

So it's nothing like the publishing industry savin', paradigm shiftin', rule re-writin', Kindle crushin' uber-device it was rumoured to  be. 

Instead we've got what is basically a large iPhone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> we've got what is basically a large iPhone.



Not really even that, it's a large iPod Touch.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 27, 2010)

some crazy eyes here, but here's the official hype video from Apple

http://www.apple.com/ipad/#video

I like the back design though. No multi-tasking fail though. Chip not quite good enough?


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> So it's nothing like the publishing industry savin', paradigm shiftin', rule re-writin', Kindle crushin' uber-device it was rumoured to  be.
> 
> Instead we've got what is basically a large iPhone.



The thing about those rumours is that what hardware were people expecting that would actually achieve these goals? Im a bit out of date regarding screen technology, was there something people were hoping for in this regard?

It can still achieve those lofty aims with the current spec, all that is required is for a very large number of people to buy one. If people like & buy it then it can help to save the publishing industry I suppose.


----------



## Mr Moose (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes they've missed a trick as Dom Joly could have advertised it doing his trademark HELLO!!


----------



## teqniq (Jan 27, 2010)

Hell, if it's already been posted, apologies:-

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/27/south_african_police_apple_tablet_photos/








_Drugs_ forum maybe?


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 27, 2010)

Well I'd like to add my Meh to the general mehness.

This does not fill any gap for me as it stands. 
Maybe give it a year or so, some possible iPad versions the serious apps like Photoshop/Lightroom etc & I may start listening again.

I want that MS Courier, but with an Apple OS & apps bassically


----------



## ovaltina (Jan 27, 2010)

Looks like an oversized iphone/tablet hybrid to me - it looks like a nice bit of kit but with a 1ghz processor and the small solid state drive, there's not much bang for your buck compared to a netbook, which comes with a proper physical keyboard. Also, the built in battery is a bad thing because it's bound to start running down sooner or later and then you'd have to invalidate the warranty by prizing it open yourself and putting something dodgy from ebay in, or keep it plugged in all the time.

And, how can they charge an extra $130 just for 3g? I got a 3g phone from Argos for £20 so it can't be _that_ expensive.


----------



## ovaltina (Jan 27, 2010)

this whole "i" thing's a bit naff now. Time for a new i-dea...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 27, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> this whole "i" thing's a bit naff now. Time for a new i-dea...



Everytime I hear it now I can't help but think iToilet (from Curb Your Enthusiasm)


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Well I'd like to add my Meh to the general mehness.
> 
> This does not fill any gap for me as it stands.
> Maybe give it a year or so, some possible iPad versions the serious apps like Photoshop/Lightroom etc & I may start listening again.
> ...


It's very disappointing. It's just a big iPod Touch, with an Amazon rip off book store bolted on, a copy of Kindle's newspaper idea and, err, that's about it, no?


----------



## spacemonkey (Jan 27, 2010)

zenie said:


> What happened to handwriting recognition? Did I miss it



eat up martha.


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 27, 2010)

Looking on the bright side there's loads of room for improvement. In a couple of years and a few updates it could be a something rather special instead of just another cash generating device.

Apple must be feeling a tad vexed with this lukewarm reception.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

If I compare the reality to the hype its easy to be disappointed.

But if I think of how great the multitouch & ui work on the smaller devices, and how much I have wanted the same experience with a larger screen, the iPad does not seem like a failure.

There will be some killer apps for it, if there was a dissapointment today it was that they did not have anything totally spectacular to deminstrate in that regard, but Im sure some 3rd party developers will come up with some interesting uses for multitouch on a larger screen.

Its a Jazzmutant Lemur killer for a start, and the Lemur had a silly pricetag. This is a niche application, but there are other interesting possibilities for using the iPad as a giant multitouch remote control device for other computers/kit.

For years I wanted a full apple mac tablet, and that would still be nice, but the iphone has taught me that a device with far more limitations than a full computer can still shine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				maldwyn said:
			
		

> Looking on the bright side there's loads of room for improvement. In a couple of years and a few updates it could be a something rather special instead of just another cash generating device.
> 
> Apple must be feeling a tad vexed with this lukewarm reception.



Maybe...I always liked the iPhone but it took until the 3GS before it got to what I'd accept as a minimum spec...


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

I agree with Elbows - it's a disappointment only for us who have been following all the speculation and letting our imaginations run wild.

I think it is somewhere between a 7 and an 8 out of ten.

Certainly the only credible tablet known today. It won't be as big as the iPhone (IMHO), but it's a good first attempt at the format. If Apple can't make this work, and maybe they won't, I really doubt anyone else can.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

If it could be tethered to a phone so as to get around the data plan issue then it'd be a nice tool, but as a additional monthly expense it's unjustifiable.

Until it gets jailbroken couldn't everyone just hold their iphones a bit closer to their face?


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

It just seems massively _unimaginative_ for an Apple product to me. And the stick on keyboard/card reader with its wires and dongles is hardly the most elegant solution.

On the plus side, the launch has helped me notch up my busiest day on Wirefresh with way over 4,000 page views so far


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Well I guess the two things working against apple besides the overhype, is that the tablet form factor in general has not so far seemed attractive to a lot of people, and that will take some time to change, and because realistically Apple cannot repeat the joy they elicited from first unveiling their multitouch technology. This is an evolution of that stuff which wowed a lot of people, and the evolution cannot hope to elicit as much shock & awe as the initial iphone unveiling of this tech & approach to interacting with computers. There may still be a wow when people actually hold & use an iPad for themselves, time will tell.

As far as I can guess the next tech evolution which may cause the big new wow will be Microsofts Project Natal if they actually make it work right.


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It's very disappointing. It's just a big iPod Touch, with an Amazon rip off book store bolted on, a copy of Kindle's newspaper idea and, err, that's about it, no?



Or alternatively:

It's "just" based on one of the most revolutionary bits of consumer technology in the last five years.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Or alternatively:
> 
> It's "just" based on one of the most revolutionary bits of consumer technology in the last five years.



You mean it's the same technology as something released five years ago?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well I guess the two things working against apple besides the overhype, is that the tablet form factor in general has not so far seemed attractive to a lot of people, and that will take some time to change, and because realistically Apple cannot repeat the joy they elicited from first unveiling their multitouch technology. This is an evolution of that stuff which wowed a lot of people, and the evolution cannot hope to elicit as much shock & awe as the initial iphone unveiling of this tech & approach to interacting with computers. There may still be a wow when people actually hold & use an iPad for themselves, time will tell.
> 
> As far as I can guess the next tech evolution which may cause the big new wow will be Microsofts Project Natal if they actually make it work right.



Elbows keeps saying what I was going to say.

Thanks Elbows. This predictive paragraph technology, tell NO ONE, ok?

Regards,
Steve


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> You mean it's the same technology as something released five years ago?



Stop being silly


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

It seems very strange to have a device that big that can't multi-task and it would soon become a real pain opening and closing apps all the time,
Here's Engadget's hands on. 


> *  It's not light. It feels pretty weighty in your hand.
> * The screen is stunning, and it's 1024 x 768. Feels just like a huge iPhone in your hands.
> * The speed of the CPU is something to be marveled at. It is blazingly fast from what we can tell. Webpages loaded up super fast, and scrolling was without a hiccup. Moving into and out of apps was a breeze. Everything flew.
> * There's no multitasking at all. It's a real disappointment. All this power and very little you can do with it at once. No multitasking means no streaming Pandora when you're working in Pages... you can figure it out. It's a real setback for this device.
> ...


No camera, no flash, no hardware keyboard, no SD slot, no gesture areas, no DVI/HDMI ports, no USB, and it can't run Mac OS apps - and it's going to be heavy to hold after a while. 

Love this user comment: 


> Apparently they are coming out with an iPad Mini that will have phone and camera integration sometime around 2007. I can't wait.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 27, 2010)

editor.. you have been consistantly anti apple for as long as I have ever known of your existance. Based on your views I forsook apple for a PC. About two years ago I got an MBP and now having experienced both sides am now very happy with the apple side of things. I have to say I do not think you are impartial in your views on apple products.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2010)

wait  what  no fucking usb?

sorry  forgot  myself there for a moment  it doesn't have usb  becaulse it's not  a laptop/netbook/tablet  at all ... it  really is  just a giant ipod touch


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Its reasonable to expect that future OS 4.0 will have multitasking, though not a cert. They might be paranoid about anything ever running in a way that looks well sluggish, which would get in the way of providing multitasking.

Apple or 3rd party webcam addon seems plausible at some point.

Weight is bound to be an issue with tablets, no matter how hard they try. As I probably mentioned earlier, heat is another factor that can make tablets uncomfortable to use for long periods, so will be interesting to see how iPad performs in this regard.

It feeling fast is very good news and quite essential if it is to uphold the iphone tradition of not being highly annoying to operate. This is one of the areas that other manufacturers have not learnt the lessons of the iphone properly in the last 3 years, you need to accelerate your interface so that it feel very responsive to what you are doing with your finger right now.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 27, 2010)

I've heard iBooks is US only.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2010)

also last time i checked  ebooks are still really  damn expensive   and i mean hardback type  prices


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It seems very strange to have a device that big that can't multi-task and it would soon become a real pain opening and closing apps all the time,
> Here's Engadget's hands on.
> 
> No camera, no flash, no hardware keyboard, no SD slot, no gesture areas, no DVI/HDMI ports, no USB, and it can't run Mac OS apps - and it's going to be heavy to hold after a while.



As a concept I think its great, now I can wait for the lower cost and more versatile versions powered by Atoms and Ion chips to come from other manufacturers. 

No doubt the apple will be slicker to use and better made, but that's the choice we make.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 27, 2010)

And not as commonly available as music via other less legitimate channels.

Edit: @ebooks comments.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> editor.. you have been consistantly anti apple for as long as I have ever known of your existance. Based on your views I forsook apple for a PC. About two years ago I got an MBP and now having experienced both sides am now very happy with the apple side of things. I have to say I do not think you are impartial in your views on apple products.


My opinions are honest and the criticisms on the iPad would apply to any similar device on any platform not offering multi-tasking, USB, SD slots or a proper keyboard. I don't recall slagging off any other Apple products recently.

You are aware that I own an iPhone, yes?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

I think they've gone a bit long of themselves. (bit overconfident...)

Yeah, the iPhone (once in 3GS version) DID allow some people to leave the laptop at home, casual users that like being connected etc, anyone with serious need would still carry a lappy/netbook of some sort... 

This doesn't quite cut the mustard even for an early adopter like me, yet. The original iPhone didn't for most either (apart from early adopters like me ). But they at least improved on it over time. Can they do that with this? I'm not entirely sure, I'll keep an eye on it for sure. Am not likely to buy 'just another netbook' though, if I wanted one of those, I'd get my company to buy me one. 

It's funny listening to people dissapointed that it didn't live up to the rumour.. lol, come on, really??!! 

I hope they sort it out, it could have been a lot better. But now the race is one with all manufacturers... ship it in  Innovation time across the board.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 27, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> also last time i checked  ebooks are still really  damn expensive   and i mean hardback type  prices



I'm wondering what will happen to the publishing industry when they catch on and people start torrenting them. It's not like that authors can go and gig, sell the rights to radio/tv or flog overpriced merchandise. 

Anyway for an ebook reader I want a cheap as chips device that's tough and contains few features, so I don't have to worry about where I take it. Would you want to take an iPad to the beach?


----------



## paolo (Jan 27, 2010)

Just in case anyone isn't aware, the OS supports multitasking, but it is inhibited for 3rd party apps unless you hack it.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> As a concept I think its great, now I can wait for the lower cost and more versatile versions powered by Atoms and Ion chips to come from other manufacturers.
> 
> No doubt the apple will be slicker to use and better made, but that's the choice we make.


It's part of the reason I find this launch so frustrating.

I thought Apple would have been able to sprinkle their fairy dust about and create a fantastic Kindle/netbook/mini Mac OS hybrid, but I can't think of any reason why I'd want to fork out £500+ for an inflated iPhone that can't even multi-task.

I'm sure there'll be big improvements coming up, so maybe it will become   a more compelling offering in a few months, but at the moment it's all a bit 'meh' for me.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2010)

i'd love it  if  ibook  had  a link to Project Gutenberg  so you could get loads of free books

but will it fuck


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I think they've gone a bit long of themselves. (bit overconfident...)
> 
> Yeah, the iPhone (once in 3GS version) DID allow some people to leave the laptop at home, casual users that like being connected etc, anyone with serious need would still carry a lappy/netbook of some sort...
> 
> ...


The thing is, netbooks are hideously flawed beasties. They're mainly rubbish to use, fiddly to type on and not very pretty to look at, but they filled an immediate need and people flocked to buy the things.

I'm not feeling any of those emotions towards the iPad and that's a shame because - believe it or not - I quite like seeing shiny new things that make me go, "want."


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Ideally lots of people will be uninterested int he iPad at launch so that I can actually get one straight away without stock issues, and then by the time Ive developed something for it more people will have decided that actually its great.

Certainly as a developer I have concerns about how it hasnt gone down that well so far, and I am not certain it will succeed, but my posts make it fairly clear that I think there is plenty of hope yet, its early days.

Heck even if its a complete failure it will have motivated me to learn more about certain web development technologies in the next 60 days, most of which are applicable to far more than just the iPad or iPhone. Im hoping that the iPad and iphone etc will support webGL at some point, which could be fun.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

As a developer point of view.. wicked stuff. Cash cow times like when the original SDK was released. Good luck! 

I paid for the SDK and membership and stuff when it 1st came out a year ago.. I've done fuck all!! Doh!!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm not feeling any of those emotions towards the iPad and that's a shame because - believe it or not - I quite like seeing shiny new things that make me go, "want."


does the missus know?


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> As a developer point of view.. wicked stuff. Cash cow times like when the original SDK was released. Good luck!
> 
> I paid for the SDK and membership and stuff when it 1st came out a year ago.. I've done fuck all!! Doh!!



Cheers. The reason I am so happy today is that once i got an ipod touch (& later an iphone) I realised that the sort of stuff I wanted to do doesnt work on screens that small. Its been a really long wait for me for Apple to do a larger screened device. I didnt make best use of the wait by getting up to scratch on developing with all the tech, so now I have to cram a lot in in 60 days, silly me. 

Making much money from developing for the iPad is only a dream for me because I dont actually know if my ideas and skills are any good, looks like this is the year I get to find out. If it all goes wrong then the iPad can just become a web-reading gadget and overpriced remote control for my realtime visual animations hobby.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm not feeling any of those emotions towards the iPad and that's a shame because - believe it or not - I quite like seeing shiny new things that make me go, "want."



So if you sit and enjoy the iphone and imagine the possibilities of a larger screen but with that experience, no parts of the brain start to buzz? Im genuinely interested because obviously Im far too smitten with multitouch to accurately imagine what other minds think of the possibilities.

Would it take many great apps before this device started to look very attractive?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> So if you sit and enjoy the iphone and imagine the possibilities of a larger screen but with that experience, no parts of the brain start to buzz? Im genuinely interested because obviously Im far too smitten with multitouch to accurately imagine what other minds think of the possibilities.
> 
> Would it take many great apps before this device started to look very attractive?



Yes, I know I bang on about it loads, but mapping apps could get very exciting! Pinch to zoom on such a big area whilst on my lap? Yes please!


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> So if you sit and enjoy the iphone and imagine the possibilities of a larger screen but with that experience, no parts of the brain start to buzz? Im genuinely interested because obviously Im far too smitten with multitouch to accurately imagine what other minds think of the possibilities.
> 
> Would it take many great apps before this device started to look very attractive?


Not really because it's just another device to lug about that I can't even make calls on. Or take pictures with.

It's not going to be particularly nice to type on, and without multi-tasking, the thing is pretty much useless as a laptop replacement.

If I was loaded, I'd probably buy one as a bedroom iPlayer/book reader/games player, but I really can't see anything it can do that I can't do already on either my iPhone or my netbook.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

iTampon is a hot trending topic on twitter.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> My opinions are honest and the criticisms on the iPad would apply to any similar device on any platform not offering multi-tasking, USB, SD slots or a proper keyboard. I don't recall slagging off any other Apple products recently.
> 
> You are aware that I own an iPhone, yes?



Indeed not. But I don't want to step into the mac/pc flame war territory.. But I try to see the posatives in things..


----------



## mincepie (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Jesus. This is worse than those religous channels u get in hotel rooms in the us
> 
> http://www.ustream.tv/leolaporte#utm_campaign=flive&utm_source=1&utm_medium=technology-computers





I left this on when I went out at 6 - and the same two people are still talking!!!


----------



## Kanda (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> If I was loaded, I'd probably buy one as a bedroom iPlayer/book reader/games player, but I really can't see anything it can do that I can't do already on either my iPhone or my netbook.



I wouldn't even if I was loaded.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> iTampon is a hot trending topic on twitter.



as is "giant iPhone"


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Jesus. This is worse than those religous channels u get in hotel rooms in the us
> 
> http://www.ustream.tv/leolaporte#utm_campaign=flive&utm_source=1&utm_medium=technology-computers


fucking hell, that's like watching/listening to a massive experiment in autistic nonsense of the nth degree....


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Not really because it's just another device to lug about that I can't even make calls on. Or take pictures with.
> 
> It's not going to be particularly nice to type on, and without multi-tasking, the thing is pretty much useless as a laptop replacement.
> 
> If I was loaded, I'd probably buy one as a bedroom iPlayer/book reader/games player, but I really can't see anything it can do that I can't do already on either my iPhone or my netbook.



Cheers, yep thats certainly a lot of the issues with the whole tablet genre.

I suppose the purchase is a no brainer for me not just because of developer career hopes and whilst I havent got much money I have credit cards and no family to support and I am stupid and have spent a lot more money than this in the past on crap windows tablet & umpc.

If these things did catch on and people spent lots of time on them without having other computers & tvs switched on at the same time, quite a lot of electricity could be saved. It is possible that the tablet form factor could fit better with our future lives & energy realities. At a push I can even imagine it has a role in a grand migration away from the car and back to public transport - everyone can ignore fellow passengers by staring at their tablets.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2010)

If the whole tablet class of device fails to catch on this year, I guess they may as well give up until such a time as devices can weigh even less, and be folded or rolled up and are affordable. I presume that will eventually be possible if no global events get in the way of high-tech industries march.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2010)

tablet laptops are nice though  i  severely  crave  a thinklpad tablet...    but that's  because it has power as well as  the tablet interface


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

My first thoughts.

Apple have managed to lose the portability of an iPhone and combined that with losing the ease of use of a netbook.

Because at least with a netbook you don't have to hold it. You can sit it down (on a lap even) and tilt the screen where you want it. Where as the iPad sits flat on a table or you have to hold it. I wouldn't like to try using it on my lap. 

Also, at least with the iPhone you can thumb type. 

I can see this tablet being in any way practical.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Because at least with a netbook you don't have to hold it. You can sit it down (on a lap even) and tilt the screen where you want it. Where as the iPad sits flat on a table or you have to hold it. I wouldn't like to try using it on my lap.
> 
> Also, at least with the iPhone you can thumb type.
> 
> I can see this tablet being in any way practical.



Yep thats another huge reason why tablets have failed to catch on in the past, though personally I never get on with using laptops on lap or low surface and cant wait to get away from sitting upright at a desk, but I might be a freak in this regard.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Not really because it's just another device to lug about that I can't even make calls on. Or take pictures with.
> 
> It's not going to be particularly nice to type on, and without multi-tasking, the thing is pretty much useless as a laptop replacement.
> 
> If I was loaded, I'd probably buy one as a bedroom iPlayer/book reader/games player, but I really can't see anything it can do that I can't do already on either my iPhone or my netbook.



Yup.

I just get the distinct impression they are trying to protect the iPhone revenue stream with the connectivity options.  There is clearly data but no voice.  Its lack of ergonomic design for use is another flaw, Steve Jobs to be sitting in a big chair to demo it means they know its flawed in that aspect.  They didn't want him to be straining his arms after holding it up for a while.   Two fingered typing is going to be difficult most of the time.

What also puts me off is that its too big.  I was expecting it to be smaller.  I really dont think that it needs to be that big.  I was fully expecting something the size of a DVD case.   That for me is the ultimate Tablet size when the software is that slick.

I'll be interested to see one in the Apple shop when they are released.  Defo not parting with my cash.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 28, 2010)

it really want's to sell the pictures and video aspect  and   the screen is  about the right size  for portable video watching... it  just  means  that it is in the awkward size zone


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 28, 2010)

actually  thinking about it the multi task thing  is  a real fucker     it means  you can't listen to music  while browsing the net  of  doing your emails...  unless they are going to do a special  exception for audio


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> it really want's to sell the pictures and video aspect  and   the screen is  about the right size  for portable video watching... it  just  means  that it is in the awkward size zone


It's not widescreen though.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I just get the distinct impression they are trying to protect the iPhone revenue stream with the connectivity options.  There is clearly data but no voice.  This shying away from giving it phone operations has meant its been knobbled.  Its lack of ergonomic design for use.  The need for Jobs to be sitting in a big chair to demo it means they know its flawed in that aspect.  They didn't want him to be straining his arms after holding it up for a while.
> 
> What also puts me off is that its too big.  I was expecting it to be smaller.  I really dont think that it needs to be that big.  I was fully expecting something the size of a DVD case.   That for me is the ultimate Tablet size when the software is that slick.



You might be right about protecting the iphone market, but also I imagine the jokes would be even worse if people really thought of it as a giant phone. Oh wait, people think of it as a giant iphone anyway.

The screen is actually not far off the size of a dvd case, and as previously discussed there needs to be space round the edge of the screen for bits of your hands to go without obscuring the view.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> it really want's to sell the pictures and video aspect  and   the screen is  about the right size  for portable video watching... it  just  means  that it is in the awkward size zone



There are large dedicated video players you can get which are a lot cheaper. That run off memory rather than DvDs too.

You'd be a mug to spend that much if a portable player is your priority.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 28, 2010)

no but   as  someone who only went wide screen a month  or so ago  i know  that's  not  a killer  you still get a fair  picture  with 16:9 and there  is a lot of old 4:3 stuff you can watch


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 28, 2010)

Gromit said:


> There are large dedicated video players you can get which are a lot cheaper. That run off memory rather than DvDs too.
> 
> You'd be a mug to spend that much if a portable player is your priority.



i think the size is also good for  browsing  and  reading  

but  yes it is a very awkward size   it's  too big  to be pocket sized  but  not flexible enough to compeat with a laptop

you would  have to be someone  who really wanted to do things the way  the device wanted to do them


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Just watched some vids, very fast machine! Games look fantastic on it too...but still can't shake the 'what's the point of it' feeling...


----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

Just come back home and switched on TWiT Live again... Dunno what else they've uncovered whilst I've been out, but they've just been saying the 3G SIM is some new smaller size. So you can't drop in an existing one.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> no but   as  someone who only went wide screen a month  or so ago  i know  that's  not  a killer  you still get a fair  picture  with 16:9 and there  is a lot of old 4:3 stuff you can watch



You went wide screen a month a go?? In what format? 

Not exactly a late adopter are you??


----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

I think some of the appeal maybe in the actual use. I know I wasn't massively on fire seeing iPhone stuff online, but the moment I actually tried the Touch I knew I'd buy an iPhone on day one.

Will definitely be going in to Regent Street to try an iPad out.

Anyone else planning the same?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				paolo999 said:
			
		

> I think some of the appeal maybe in the actual use. I know I wasn't massively on fire seeing iPhone stuff online, but the moment I actually tried the Touch I knew I'd buy an iPhone on day one.
> 
> Will definitely be going in to Regent Street to try an iPad out.
> 
> Anyone else planning the same?



Yup going to have a play when it's out too.


----------



## grit (Jan 28, 2010)

600 odd quid or whatever its going to be for essentially a machine with a resolution from 5 years ago and a CPU thats about an 8th of my desktop.

No form factor can make that compelling.


----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

Leo's now on phone-in segment:

http://live.twit.tv/


----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

iPad spoof sanitary towel ad very good


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> You went wide screen a month a go?? In what format?



h264 of course


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

And here's the second stupid article from this Claudine Beaumont woman at the Telegraph:

"Apple's iPad, which resembles a 'giant iPhone', may sound the death knell for netbook computers."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7087088/Apple-iPad-review.html



A slightly more critical article can be found here:
http://mashable.com/2010/01/27/apple-ipad-downsides


----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> A slightly more critical article can be found here:
> http://mashable.com/2010/01/27/apple-ipad-downsides



Their closing point "It’s Not Worth It If You Have a Smartphone and Laptop" is where I'm at.

This isn't about whether it has the right sockets. The challenge is way bigger than that.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 28, 2010)

The 16Gb 3G version is $629, not sure 16Gb is quite enough so the most common model will be the 32Gb 3G version.

The most basic MacBook is $999, if you've got $729 to spend on an iPad then I think stretching to the MacBook isn't beyond the realm. A 3G dongle is cheap.

If you don't want a Mac then the iPad is putting its walled garden up against some very serious hardware indeed.  A Dell 17" Inspiron with a 3Gb ram, 250Gb hard disk, a Core i3 CPU, a built in webcam and comes with a proper keyboard.  You can argue all you like about small form factor keyboards but there isn't anything out there that can replace a larger one.  

The iPad will never >ever< match the flexibility of a proper laptop computer.  Its only major advantage is weight at about 750g.

Not multi-tasking is comedy because that means you have to run the iPhone apps one at a time on a screen that can support many of them quite easily.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I think some of the appeal maybe in the actual use. I know I wasn't massively on fire seeing iPhone stuff online, but the moment I actually tried the Touch I knew I'd buy an iPhone on day one.



The iPhone was out before the Touch.....


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 28, 2010)

I've been thinking about this thing over night & the more I think about it (& echoing articles yesterday), it really is the content that will make or break this thing. If developers - esspecially in the publishing/imaging sector do step up, then there are some really exciting possibilities with the ipad interface. 
On 2nd looking, It's actually not a bad machine tbh, sure it needs some refinements, which will undoubtably come - I wouldn't touch this 1st edition - but I'm starting to see where it could go.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> A slightly more critical article can be found here:
> http://mashable.com/2010/01/27/apple-ipad-downsides



"a cool toy"

Sums it up really.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm interested in seeing the dimensions.

I like the idea of a portable device that's bigger than the phone (but ISN'T a netbook), which I can carry easily on the bike...

Carrying the laptop about in a rucksack is arse. If this'll fit in my tail pack, I suspect it'll bridge my intended gap between my current MBP and the next one.


----------



## magneze (Jan 28, 2010)

Apple have developed a custom all in one processor for it. I wonder if this will make it into any other devices. Developing that must be expensive so to limit it to this is a bit odd.


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

Paperbacks are more portable  and I have an iPhone and a MBP. This seems like a solution in search of a problem unlike the iPod or iPhone where there was a clear need. It's just a touch screen netbook however Apple tries to sell it and the 3G version will be expensive compared to that market's competition. I'm sure it will sell but it's a niche device IMO.

Jobs' speech to me ears was tantamount to admitting the Air simply hasn't done what it needed to and this will replace it over time as the truly portable Apple device.

It won't surf the web better than a Netbook, it won't be a better eReader than some devices on the market. And for the price they want I can't see the benefit.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

magneze said:


> Apple have developed a custom all in one processor for it. I wonder if this will make it into any other devices. Developing that must be expensive so to limit it to this is a bit odd.



It's an ARM chip, so you can bet it'll turn up in the next iphone/touch.


I can see how it would be nice to have one of these around the home. But if I'm going somewhere, I'll have a bag, and a laptop fits in a bag, and a laptop does more stuff. So yeah, nice product, but I have no urge to actually buy one.


----------



## zenie (Jan 28, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Well I'd like to add my Meh to the general mehness.
> 
> This does not fill any gap for me as it stands.
> Maybe give it a year or so, some possible iPad versions the serious apps like Photoshop/Lightroom etc & I may start listening again.
> ...


 
I saw that this morning in Shortlist, will take a closer look. Shame it's Microsoft. 



paolo999 said:


> Yes, you missed that.
> 
> It was in 1989 and didn't really work:


 
Got it on my 5800!  



paolo999 said:


> I agree with Elbows - it's a disappointment only for us who have been following all the speculation and letting our imaginations run wild.
> 
> I think it is somewhere between a 7 and an 8 out of ten.
> 
> Certainly the only credible tablet known today. It won't be as big as the iPhone (IMHO), but it's a good first attempt at the format. If Apple can't make this work, and maybe they won't, I really doubt anyone else can.


 
You're very generous 

Have you looked at the M$ Courier?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

Courier is just a concept. It'll take a lot of software engineering before it's a reality...


----------



## zenie (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Courier is just a concept. It'll take a lot of software engineering before it's a reality...


 
Says 'Expect a Summer relases' in the article, but online says different so I'm guessing they're just hyping it. 

Could be good if it comes out though.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

The Courier's basically vapourware though - a concept from a company renown for producing many abortive and half thought through concepts that go on a slow road to nowhere. .

Looks flaming great, but it's basically a mock up with demo at the moment.


----------



## zenie (Jan 28, 2010)

nvm another thread maybe


----------



## magneze (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's an ARM chip, so you can bet it'll turn up in the next iphone/touch.
> 
> 
> I can see how it would be nice to have one of these around the home. But if I'm going somewhere, I'll have a bag, and a laptop fits in a bag, and a laptop does more stuff. So yeah, nice product, but I have no urge to actually buy one.


Yep, it'd be nice to have if you didn't have a laptop ... but I reckon anyone who might want an iPad probably already has a laptop.

It's the netbook market they're gunning for here. Will be interesting to see how it plays against them.

If they did a ruggedized one that could be read in direct sunlight then it'd be great for reading books or surfing internet on the beach.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

I already use my touch in the way that this is supposed to be used, but I can't replace one with the other, and I can't really justify owning both


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

Interested to see the UK pricing...suspect they may come close to swapping the $ with a £


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

Out of interest, how good is a iPhone/Touch to use outside in the sunshine?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

With the brightness up, it's fine, but the battery life does drop.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> With the brightness up, it's fine, but the battery life does drop.



Would you want to read a book on it, sat in the park, by the pool etc?

Coz Apple seem to be making a big thing of the eReader aspect, but unless I've missed something major it's going to be bloody awful in that regard.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 28, 2010)

So, it's either an iPhone that's too big, or a laptop that's too small and has no keyboard?

It won't catch on, will it?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

stranger things have happened, but no it won't


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

magneze said:


> It's the netbook market they're gunning for here. Will be interesting to see how it plays against them..


Thing is, netbooks run full versions of Windows programs and you can just plug in USB peripherals, hook it up to a monitor/DVD/hard drive, insert memory cards etc, which makes it far more useful for all round mobile/work use than a glorified iPhone. The iPad is next to useless for me as a travelling companion, and that's the only thing I really use my netbook for.

After all the build up I feel a bit cheated by what Steve Jobs described as Apple's 'revolutionary' product.


----------



## strung out (Jan 28, 2010)

was hoping it would be more like one of these...


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Jan 28, 2010)

If I was Sergey Brin, Larry Ellison, or even Steve Ballmer, then I'd be a happy man today.

No multitasking.  Ugly form factor.  Big ergonomic issues.  A device that appears to be trying to do too many things poorly (an ebook reader that's not as easy on the eye as an eInk display, a media player with poor resolution screen, a web browsing device that can't handle flash, etc)

And all the while, you've got Android devices getting better and better, and talks of HTC doing a chrome based tablet, other companies are looking at Android based tablets, and Microsoft (of all people) have come out with a far more interesting form factor with their Courier prototype.

Really, really disappointed.


----------



## magneze (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Thing is, netbooks run full versions of Windows programs and you can just plug in USB peripherals, hook it up to a monitor/DVD/hard drive, insert memory cards etc, which makes it far more useful for all round mobile/work use than a glorified iPhone. The iPad is next to useless for me as a travelling companion, and that's the only thing I really use my netbook for.
> 
> After all the build up I feel a bit cheated by what Steve Jobs described as Apple's 'revolutionary' product.


He has to say that though doesn't he?

With iPod sales now going the wrong way, Apple needs something different. Now if someone hasn't already got an iPhone or a netbook, this is an intriguing alternative.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 28, 2010)

First I've heard of the Courier. Fuck me, that looks cool. That's what you'd expect from Apple for £900. That's what I would want. What an odd role-reversal.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 28, 2010)

http://gizmodo.com/5458382/8-things-that-suck-about-the-ipad?skyline=true&s=i

8 things that suck about the iPad - fair points all.


----------



## cybertect (Jan 28, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> "a cool toy"
> 
> Sums it up really.



Though I seem to recall people exactly saying that about every Apple product since the 128K Mac in 1984 - I remember being accused of having a 'toy computer' when I had a Mac Plus in the late 80s because it didn't use a command line interface like DOS.


----------



## stowpirate (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> stranger things have happened, but no it won't



Haven't they just reinvented the wheel as in a cash generating Tablet PC engineered in such a way as to fool another generation. Can you replace the OS with something less Apple focused or is it locked as with the iPhone.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

hee hee hee


----------



## jusali (Jan 28, 2010)

and now the fall of apple............


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

So I take it iPlayer wont work on this?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

jusali said:


> and now the fall of apple............



Yeah... right....


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

Comments bit on the guardian site are universially scathing.



> Can I edit video with it?
> Can I record my band's demo and mix it?
> Heck- can I Skype video call my friends in Hamburg?
> 
> Think I'll be sticking with my MacBook Pro, then.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> So I take it iPlayer wont work on this?



Why do you think that?


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Courier is just a concept. It'll take a lot of software engineering before it's a reality...


Sure, but at least they're aiming high. 

The iPad is just a passive media consumption tablet, burdened with all the control freakery of the AppStore, running a crippled three year old OS and with a stupid new 'Micro SIM' slot that's not compatible with anything you currently own. 

Maybe I was suckered by the hype, but I expected more from Apple after their recent run of underwhelming launches. Where's the vision? Where's the 'think different' philosophy gone?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

I think it will depend on what content becomes available as to whether or not it's a success. I do think it eventually will be a success, just not in this incarnation.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> So I take it iPlayer wont work on this?


 
It works on iPhone so bound to work on this.

What you won't get maybe is Real Player meaning that other BBC content won't work. 

I also ponder whether this device will feature Flash or not?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I also ponder whether this device will feature Flash or not?



Already covered, it doesn't.


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I think it will depend on what content becomes available as to whether or not it's a success. I do think it eventually will be a success, just not in this incarnation.



This my feeling...not a big enough "wow", yet. Where does this leave the Air? It's too pricey as a netbook, too compromised compared to the MacBook range.

Will it be upgraded when the MBPs are? or just left to die slowly like the Mini?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

Microsoft always do decent concept launches though - like that tabletop multitouch display that seems to have gone nowhere much. They even made the Zune sound revolutionary once, although the results and impact were much more prosaic

I'm cynical about the Courier too fwiw. Looks great, but the stylus seems a bodge already. Everyone's moved away from stylii for a reason,and the logic of introducing two forms of input into the system seems to make things more fiddly and inconsistent than finger alone. It's about doing a few things well, not producing an all singing swiss army knife that does everything a little clunkily. 

Apple's fired the first big shot. It'll be interesting to see how fast worthwhile content and competitors appear on the scene.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> First I've heard of the Courier. Fuck me, that looks cool. That's what you'd expect from Apple for £900. That's what I would want.



Exactly.

Now watch MS totally fuck it up


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

I think the Air's a different segment fwiw. It's a niche ultraportable without the obvious drawbacks of a netbook - it's got a full size keyboard and screen for a start. There's probably an argument that that sector in the market for luxury ultraportable toys will always be small and expensive


----------



## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Where's the vision? Where's the 'think different' philosophy gone?



And quality control. Apple must have known the ipad's shortcomings compared to other devices that are already available (netbooks) but decided to launch anyway. They're going to lose their all-important brand recognition if they start knocking out ill-conceived products that are nowhere near the zeitgiest (sp?).


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> the stylus seems a bodge already.



Not if someone, somehow, gets it right. 
I still use a note book all the time to scribble thoughts/phone numbers/instructions etc down. 
Writing is still the quickest, most direct & instinctive way of getting something onto paper/post it note/screen with the right technology.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Jan 28, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Now watch MS totally fuck it up



It doesn't matter if they do.  That factor has obvious suitablity for a number of tasks, and is MS don't bring it to market properly, HTC or someone else will.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jan 28, 2010)

I cant see the point in this.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Jan 28, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Writing is still the quickest, most direct & instinctive way of getting something onto paper/post it note/screen with the right technology.



Most people I know can type a shitload faster than they can write.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Already covered, it doesn't.


 
Thats stupid. Definately don't want one then.

Best browsing experience I've ever had Steve? 

Not if it doesn't match what my PC browser can do.


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Most people I know can type a shitload faster than they can write.



Innit... I can't actually write much any more at all, my handwriting's become shocking. It's so rare i have to... Which does make me sad....


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Most people I know can type a shitload faster than they can write.


 
Aye.

Also my (already bad) spelling suffers on paper since I've gotten used to my fingers thinking for me and spellcheckers tidying up after me


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 28, 2010)

http://i.gizmodo.com/5458510/wait-no-this-is-the-real-ipad?autoplay=true


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 28, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Most people I know can type a shitload faster than they can write.



Whilst holding a phone to their ear on a park bench/bus seat with a laptop on their knee?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Most people I know can type a shitload faster than they can write.



On a proper keyboard, maybe


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> Innit... I can't actually write much any more at all, my handwriting's become shocking. It's so rare i have to... Which does make me sad....



It's true of me as well, haven't had to write longhand in years properly, apart from the odd note taking most of my writing is typing. Can type far faster than I can write...


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

Same here. Styli are basically archaic I reckon - the youth will be thumbing away frantically and it just introduces an extra UI fudge.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 28, 2010)

Shiny Thing Make It All Better

and an old classic:

Apple to Charge $2000 for shit in a box


----------



## magneze (Jan 28, 2010)

What we're forgetting here I think is that it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be usable. The first iPod was the first usable mass market MP3 player. Key words here being first and usable. Being first is always an advantage - yes better products will come out this year ... but they won't be the first.


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

Netbooks are useable. Smartphones are useable.


----------



## magneze (Jan 28, 2010)

g force said:


> Netbooks are useable. Smartphones are useable.


This is neither ... that is the point.

Interesting analysis here - "it's all about TV": http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/01/28/ipad_equals_tv/


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

magneze said:


> This is neither ... that is the point.
> 
> Interesting analysis here - "it's all about TV": http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/01/28/ipad_equals_tv/





> But a lot of folk - and not just the usual suspects - will take a shine to this handy, personal, internet-connected portable telly. A telly that's not restricted to the room it's placed in. A telly you can easily take on holiday with you, or just out to the park.


Might be a tricky seeing as it can't receive terrestrial programs, you can't add a TV card and you'll be fucked if there's no wi-fi about and you've run out of your pricey 3G allowance (if you've paid the extra for that model). 

What a ridiculous article.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Might be a tricky seeing as it can't receive terrestrial programs



Oh, I bet it can.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Might be a tricky seeing as it can't receive terrestrial programs, you can't add a TV card and you'll be fucked if there's no wi-fi about and you've run out of your pricey 3G allowance (if you've paid the extra for that model).
> 
> What a ridiculous article.



http://www.tvcatchup.com/ 

Works over wifi and 3G


----------



## magneze (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't agree - people watch stuff on their iPhones and iPod Touches with the same connectivity limitations. There is now something that makes that experience a bit nicer.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> http://www.tvcatchup.com/
> 
> Works over wifi and 3G



Innit. And works very, very well.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'm cynical about the Courier too fwiw. Looks great, but the stylus seems a bodge already. Everyone's moved away from stylii for a reason,and the logic of introducing two forms of input into the system seems to make things more fiddly and inconsistent than finger alone.


Tell you what: there are quite a few times where I've found myself missing a stylus when I'm using my iPhone.

They may not be fashionable but as Pie1 says, sometimes they can do things a whole lot quicker than smudging around with your finger, and stylus-led screens can be a lot more productive because the interface doesn't have to be dumbed down into child-sized buttons with massive text.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> http://www.tvcatchup.com/
> 
> Works over wifi and 3G


That's a great service but it relies on the user being near a wi-fi connection or having the pricier 3G iPad (with sufficient bandwidth allowance). 

This thing won't be replacing my tele any time soon.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> This thing won't be replacing my tele any time soon.



I don't think the article was suggesting it could replace a conventional TV, more like supplement it.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a great service but it relies on the user being near a wi-fi connection or having the pricier 3G iPad (with sufficient bandwidth allowance).
> 
> This thing won't be replacing my tele any time soon.



Apple are also in talks with with networks about reducing TV pricing in iTunes. http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/26/apple-pressuring-tv-networks-to-halve-itunes-episode-pricing/


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's an ARM chip, so you can bet it'll turn up in the next iphone/touch.



That would make a lot of sense, especially as its made in house and lots of other phones now have a 1ghz CPU.

Next question for me is res...will the next iphone bypass the 800x480 that's becoming standard for new smartphones and share the same res, so make sharing apps between the devices easier?


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

No disrespect meant here Ed - I'm Psion generation myself - but add Pie in and we're not the future mass market. 

Styli are always clumsy imo, especially to a generation won over by more intuitive touch based interfaces and used to fingers flying on small keypads.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

magneze said:


> This is neither ... that is the point.
> 
> Interesting analysis here - "it's all about TV": http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/01/28/ipad_equals_tv/


 
So its a portable telly. But not the latest telly which is widescreen. The old 4:3 type of telly with fancy teletext minus the option to read the text at the same time as viewing the telly.

Is that about right?


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> No disrespect meant here Ed - I'm Psion generation myself - but add Pie in and we're not the future mass market.
> 
> Styli are always clumsy imo, especially to a generation won over by more intuitive touch based interfaces and used to fingers flying on small keypads.


 
Can you zoom, pinch & slide with your styli?


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

Well, I've spent the morning reading reviews. They're generally positive. Readers' comments on the other hand are overwhelmingly along the the lines of 'what's the point?'

This will fail.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

Gromit said:


> So its a portable telly. But not the latest telly which is widescreen. The old 4:3 type of telly with fancy teletext minus the option to read the text at the same time as viewing the telly.
> 
> Is that about right?



If you turn it sideways it's widescreen...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> No disrespect meant here Ed - I'm Psion generation myself - but add Pie in and we're not the future mass market.



True. 
But a good styli interface _in conjuction_ with multi touch wouldn't be a bad combination would it?


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> No disrespect meant here Ed - I'm Psion generation myself - but add Pie in and we're not the future mass market.
> 
> Styli are always clumsy imo, especially to a generation won over by more intuitive touch based interfaces and used to fingers flying on small keypads.


Maybe, but I'd say that depends on what the intended use is. I don't think, say, students or business users would have a problem using a stylus - _as well as_ finger control - if it meant they could get things done quicker.


----------



## zenie (Jan 28, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Can you zoom, pinch & slide with your styli?


 
Aye. It is a bit superfluous most of the time though.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

*meh*



beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't think the article was suggesting it could replace a conventional TV, more like supplement it.



and while I'm reading this thread I'm replying to this post, going through my emails (via plugged in 3g dongle) _and_ listening to the telly (via my tv stick) _all on one laptop._ 

I'm disappointed with the ipad.  I'm surpirsed at how locked down they've really made it, no usb or sd card reader, wtf? I think I'll be getting a netbook and an ebook reader instead.  Would be cheaper. Dunno 'bout anyone else but on our usenet account we've started seeing ebooks appearing on there of late.  

and another thing.  Mobile internet service providers don't exactly give you much allowance, do they? Download a couple of films for £££ on your ipad and that's your allowance caned for the month as well. I'm already forking out £130 a month for crackberry and two dongles (landline broadband isn't possible for us).

and another thing, it's all very well getting an ipad and a subscription to a newspaper, but I wonder how many seconds I'd last reading a paper on the ipad on a local bus in Tottenham, before I was taxed for the device?

It sure is puurty tho.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

Above all, styli potentially add inconsistency and confusion to what should be an intuitive OS. And do I trust MS and their loose team of developers not to bodge up such a balance? Of course not.

TBH I reckon styli should be consigned to history or confined to very specific tasks.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> If you turn it sideways it's widescreen...



No it's not. The screen is 1024x768 - Oldschool 4:3

960x640 would have made some sense, to get exactly double the pixels of iPhone (this is 3:2)

1280x720 would have been the best size though, for proper 16:9 HD


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 28, 2010)

How does this device improve my life?

The iPod made carrying more music than I'm ever likely to listen to easy

The iPhone made smartphones easy to use 'for everyone' (as opposed to geeky types who bought something like a Touch HD)

What does this do? Aside from be bulky, cost loads for not much storage, and you're tied into the whole Apple content dictatorship.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> 1280x720 would have been the best size though, for proper 16:9 HD



Is there an obvious technical reason why they haven't done this?

It does seem rather odd.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> How does this device improve my life?
> 
> The iPod made carrying more music than I'm ever likely to listen to easy
> 
> ...


"use a computer round the home or on the go, without the hassle of having to use a desktop OS in a suboptimal shape for it"

not the greatest selling pitch, really


----------



## Sunray (Jan 28, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Is there an obvious technical reason why they haven't done this?
> 
> It does seem rather odd.



Cheap screens.  Its an off the shelf size and being IPS there are more limited sizes available.  Just going to have black bars when watching 
widescreen content.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 28, 2010)

> not the greatest selling pitch, really



Shiny new thing!! Lookit the shiny new thing!!! would probably be better.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

Hmmm. I would have thought 720p screens this size were being made in sufficient numbers...


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> "use a computer round the home or on the go, without the hassle of having to use a desktop OS in a suboptimal shape for it"
> 
> not the greatest selling pitch, really


Have you seen this from Lenovo?



> Showcased at CES earlier this month, the tablet packs everything you'd need from a fully functioning tablet PC - touchscreen, full multitasking, automatic screen orientation, 3G, Wi-Fi, onboard camera etc, but comes with a very clever  twist: it can clip into a special shell to become a full Windows 7 laptop with a proper keyboard.



http://www.wirefresh.com/lenovo-u1-tabletpc-hybrid-well-take-this-over-the-ipad-thanks/


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2010)

It's not _just_ for watching video on though. If it was then a 16:9 screen would've been better, but that's only part of the sales pitch. A more standard screen is probably better for portability and all the other apps they want to run on it.


----------



## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2010)

Isn't tv catch up a flash service? (I've been known to watch tv in the bath with it on my battered old laptop. Would't risk it with this though, too valuable)


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> Isn't tv catch up a flash service? (I've been known to watch tv in the bath with it on my battered old laptop. Would't risk it with this though, too valuable)



Works on iPhone... which doesn't support Flash.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

Many services that use flash in your desktop browser are actually using h.264 video, just wrapped up in flash, so whilst the iphone & ipad dont support flash, they can use the underlying videos. We will see this increasingly on the desktop too - for browsers that support h.264 playback without flash, via the htm5 vieo tag, the page wont need to use flash, but for browsers that dont support that technology the video will be wrapped in flash so it still works.

As for the dismal reception to the iPad, there are 3 things that prevent me from being sure that the device is doomed:

The web experience might be great once people actually try it.
There could be some killer apps
Young people might like it

Time will tell, certainly initial indications are not good so I am quite depressed about my planned future career today, but really I need to give it 6-12 months before I write this one off as a complete failure.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Have you seen this from Lenovo?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/lenovo-u1-tabletpc-hybrid-well-take-this-over-the-ipad-thanks/


Spot-on formfactor, but idiotic decision to have effectively two computers in it (the Linux, ARM screen and the Windows, Intel base)

And agreed on the flash 'problem' - all the major online video people will be using HTML5 (pushed, in no small part, by the success of the iphone/touch and the lost users that represents) in the next year I reckon, so it's just a passing thing.


----------



## Cm7 (Jan 28, 2010)

Somehow, I envision iPad will be used more in retails/business, e.g. waiters taking your orders in fancy restaurant, stock brokers, props in movies etc.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

Tablets really do seem a bit weird.  To my mind they're something that should be great, yet nobody seems to be able to crack how to do one just yet.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2010)

zenie said:


> "YEH, I'M IN THE LIBRARY!! I'M ON THE I-SLATE. CAN YOU HEAR ME??"
> 
> Ha!
> 
> I hope there isn't a phone in it almost, you'd feel a right dickhead holding that to your ear.



It was only a matter of time...


----------



## Cm7 (Jan 28, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> It was only a matter of time...



Haha, it has 3G, so it's possible.
Haven't read the features on the website though, so don't know if you can call. If so, a pair of earphones and a mic would surely be better than holding that thing close to your cheek.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

Cm7 said:


> don't know if you can call



You can't.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

They might allow voice over IP stuff on it though, it has got a built-in mic.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2010)

You can voip on an ipod touch. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to on the ipad.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

Judging from the initial reaction on the net yesterday, I think they may really have messed up the name - being a UK male I did not realise how much the pad part of the name may make a lot of women think of tampons etc, not sure if that will be as big an issue in the uk but doesnt seem like Apples finest hour.

Still find it quite odd how many people got excited about an apple tablet when they are not really sold on the tablet form-factor in general - not sure what Apple or anyone else could have done to get round that one, what innovation could they possibly have come up with that would overcome these hurdles?


----------



## Cm7 (Jan 28, 2010)

elbows said:


> They might allow voice over IP stuff on it though, it has got a built-in mic.



Does it have a front camera?
It'd be quite dumb not being able to do video chat on it.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

elbows said:


> Judging from the initial reaction on the net yesterday, I think they may really have messed up the name - being a UK male I did not realise how much the pad part of the name may make a lot of women think of tampons etc, not sure if that will be as big an issue in the uk but doesnt seem like Apples finest hour.



Yeah, ye old paper Notepad suffered exactly the same fate...


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 28, 2010)




----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> The iPhone was out before the Touch.....



Not in the UK.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


>



hehe shake to undo


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 28, 2010)

The B3ta image challenge is making me lol


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> The B3ta image challenge is making me lol



Aye. some good stuff today..



> Gary Glitter's getting one..


----------



## Structaural (Jan 28, 2010)

I think when Apple say it's their most revolutionary product yet, they mean, this is our most proprietary product yet. We make all the money. Now they own the chips, they have complete control.

I just tried to watch the keynote, but the deathly silence after the iPad was shown and demoed was too unnerving  especially as it's all the same shit we saw on the iPhone two years. Oh a maps app, a email app, wow you can point and click with your fingers! Did you just pinch to zoom? Show me that shit again Steve!

My first take on it now, is that it's a bit dull. A giant iPod touch. I still think it looks a bit crap with that massive bezel, they could have slimmed that down a bit, my thumbs ain't that big, it looks remarkably similar to the Que Touchbook but without e-ink. 
Glossy screens are shit, the end. 
The Home screen looked bloody awful with 8 tiny icons and 4 on the dock. That it runs iPhone 3.2 is disappointing, (I want a desktop, with real files) if they don't support multi-tasking with the next OS, then I can't recommend this product to any grandmas (this must be their target market with this, people without ipod/iphones who are thinking of buying a netbook).
That presentation was the most corporate and microsoft like I've seen apple do - fucking pie-charts? what is this 1988? Do work in my iBed or when doing an iPoo? forgetaboutit, we're not all crazy workaholics, Jobbie.

Painting with my fingers, that's the best graphics app you've got to show off?
Hardly any inputs or outputs, oh fuck off Apple, we've had enough of this, from removing Firewire from Macbooks to forcing proprietary cables on iPhone users who want to output to a tv, this control freakery and greed is tiresome. Where's my HDMI outputs, my USB inputs, my card reader? How about a firewire connection to I can upload films quickly rather than at USB 2.0 speed. Again locked to iTunes on ONE computer no doubt. I can't even plug my iphone into my ipad so that I can share photo or video? What if I don't want a laptop or a desktop? How am I gonna sync. 

Lack of any new gestures, or anything new at all that uses this lovely big touchscreen. What was the point of buying FingerWorks - so no-one else can make a good touch interface no doubt. Lame. You can't even two-finger rotate the maps in the maps app.

That keyboard looks childlike - why not just make it fullsize, the thing looks big enough. I'm sick of pressing a button to get numbers up, but I understand it on a tiny iphone.
No iSight, so I can't sit in bed and skype my family like I do with my missus's laptop?
Locked in - probably worse than the iPhone as that new chip will probably contain some hard-coded security shit making jailbreaking even harder.
No flash, so how is this the best browser experience then jobs? You might not like Adobe - but those 'liberal creative artistic' types you banged on about at the end (wank!), like snazzy graphics and have been using adobe software way before Apple pulled their finger out and started making decent apps. Just shit, 30% of the sites I have to use, are flash.

I sometimes think Jobs and Ives have lost the plot, too rich, they just make things they'd like to have on their laps while they travel around first class. And Ives barely concealed 'we call this magical because the plebs won't understand how it works' was wankier than 'our funnest ipod yet' campaign. Okay mate.
I personally have no time for all this kindle e-ink, media crap, nothing beats a real book and a lamp. If I have a computer in front of me I don't use it to read a book, I make stuff and surf the web generally (and work occasionally).

Did I mention lack of multi-tasking, that is so fail.

What do I like about it? The fact that it is multi-touch - I use a wacom on my desktop and I often wish I could use my fingers instead for some things. Browsing is definitely improved by with smooth scrolling and pinch zooming etc... 

If money were no object I'd buy one for browsing in bed like I do with my iPhone. I doubt I'd use the book reader - especially as the pricing is analogous to a real hardback/paperback. I'll have the real thing thanks. I watch almost all my films and tv on the plasma in the living room through a media box that picks up my downloads from the internet so it's not going to replace that and anyway it's a bit low-res for widescreen films given that they went with a low dot pitch on the screen.

Anyway like most things Apple, you need to wait for around the 3rd iteration for the problems to be sorted out. The shat all over, badly treated (but occasionally rich) developers will save it though.
I'm sure it'll sell like hotcakes, but not to me. Not this year anyway.

No multi-tasking!


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

Structaural said:


> You might not like Adobe - but those 'liberal creative artistic' types you banged on about at the end (wank!), like snazzy graphics and have been using adobe software way before Apple pulled their finger out and started making decent apps. Just shit, 30% of the sites I have to use, are flash.
> !



You know what? I don't think they're interested in us 'liberal creative artistic types' anymore.  They're pissing some of the design community off - there have been Adobe compatibility issues with Macs which required patches.  Ok, I don't work in graphics, I work in fashion, but we still use Adobe CS in a big way, but I've seen quite a few fashion companies, (incl 3 old employers of mine) ditch their macs and get pcs instead. 

I don't think they're that interested in geeks either - they don't want people who rip and hack shit, who alter stuff and write scripts, there's not enough money in it for them, I think they want people who can be spoon fed stuff via itunes _and pay for it_, too. Theres something very 'toy' about it all.

ETA I'd love a _useable_ tablet that I could take to meetings, I often lug the laptop to go thru stuff with a client.  The good thing about the ipad is that it will give a great big kick up the arse of  developers in the 'tablet' market (incl. Apple) so I don't think we'll be that far away from something useable (and cool)


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 28, 2010)

pinkmonkey said:


> You know what? I don't think they're interested in us 'liberal creative artistic types' anymore.  They're pissing some of the design community off - there have been Adobe compatibility issues with Macs which required patches.  Ok, I don't work in graphics, I work in fashion, but we still use Adobe CS in a big way, but I've seen quite a few fashion companies, (incl 3 old employers of mine) ditch their macs and get pcs instead.
> 
> I don't think they're that interested in geeks either - they don't want people who rip and hack shit, who alter stuff and write scripts, there's not enough money in it for them, I think they want people who can be spoon fed stuff via itunes _and pay for it_, too. Theres something very 'toy' about it all.
> 
> ETA I'd love a _useable_ tablet that I could take to meetings, I often lug the laptop to go thru stuff with a client.  The good thing about the ipad is that it will give a great big kick up the arse of  developers in the 'tablet' market (incl. Apple) so I don't think we'll be that far away from something useable (and cool)



I'm a director at a design company and all but two of the designers use a PC now. To be fair, it was bought for them 'cos it was so much cheaper, but no-one moaned.


----------



## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2010)

Just watched the gizmodo video on the MS Courier http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet

I'm terminally disorganised and always writing notes on scraps of paper that later go missing, so if it's in a reasonable price range this looks very interesting. Add instant internet access allowing you to share info with colleagues etc, and this could be a really useful work tool. Apple's decision to just make a big iphone with no phone or camara, and expect people to jump for joy, looks lazy by comparison.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

Yes agreed cost is a big factor, also one company I worked for moaned that they had to have two seperate IT support teams - one for everyone on pcs using spreadsheets and one for the designery mac bods.  Just didn't make financial sense!


----------



## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm a director at a design company and all but two of the designers use a PC now. To be fair, it was bought for them 'cos it was so much cheaper, but no-one moaned.



When I used to work for newspapers in the early 00s we had Mac Power PCs struggling to run Speedwriter/Pagespeed, then switched to QuarkXpress on Imacs and G4s, then they bought in PCs happily running Quark.

Macs were good for subeditors back in the day, but now you can run Adobe Indesign on a PC without it breaking a sweat.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm positive Apple will also sell this in also as a device you can dock at home and be a lite home computer when coupled with a wireless keyboard and mouse.
> 
> 
> Crispy said:
> ...











			
				macrumors said:
			
		

> Accessories will also be available for the iPad, including a dock with a mechanical keyboard that will accommodate the iPad in portrait orientation and a case with a built-in stand for video viewing. Prices on these accessories were not announced. The iPad also supports Bluetooth keyboards.



Stick it on the server fund Crispy


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm a director at a design company and all but two of the designers use a PC now. To be fair, it was bought for them 'cos it was so much cheaper, but no-one moaned.



I can use both mac and pc and ive freelanced in one or two studios which are pc, but its very rare. as such LOADS of designers simply don't know how to use windows. it's comical.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

It depends on your trade. If you're doing fashion design you spend as much time on spreadsheets as you do in CS.  Many of the tech packs I make for factories are excel with imported CS artwork, it means that the buyers can order extra colourways and change stuff without having to learn graphics software.  Plus no one uses macs when you go out to the factories.  If you took a mac, if something went tits up, no one in the factorys IT dept would be able to help you.  

I still want some kind of 'tablet', though, I'm really excited about what we will see next, whoever it is from.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

Same here. Most of the guys in our main design team would look at you with horror if you wanted to replace their macs. The higher up the food chain and the more renown an agency the more likely that seems.

There was a period when pcs made bigger inroads, usually in the Editorial field where Quark was trying to change workflow, but if anything it's changing back again at the moment.

The halo around Apple products and greater flexibility with the hardwear mean the reverse is true if anything ime. Final Cut Pro and Logic have also made decent inroads and have retained loyalty. I suspect that's one reason why Apple feel empowered enough to keep Adobe at arms length and not just because of bad feeling about Flash.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

In every design studio I've ever worked there's always been a mix of PCs and Macs, with some now replacing Macs with PCs as they represent a substantial saving for exactly the same end result. Having worked on both, there's barely any difference I can see for mainstream Photoshop/Dreamweaver/webdev/photography/design work so I guess it's harder for companies to justify paying what is essentially a style premium, uness there are some Mac-specific apps offering a real difference.

It's a different story in the States where Apple is _far_ more popular though.


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

Agreed...all the publishing houses I worked at moved to PCs as it was really no big deal and saved them a small fortune. I did a day of freelancing at a London design agency and took a Vaio with me (missus was using the MBP) and you'd think I'd suggested fornicating with their mothers the looks I got! Next week went to different agency with the MBP and they were all using PCs.


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> In every design studio I've ever worked there's always been a mix of PCs and Macs, with some now replacing Macs with PCs as they represent a substantial saving for exactly the same end result. Having worked on both, there's barely any difference I can see for mainstream Photoshop/Dreamweaver/webdev/photography/design work so I guess it's harder for companies to justify paying what is essentially a style premium, uness there are some Mac-specific apps offering a real difference.
> 
> It's a different story in the States where Apple is _far_ more popular though.



InDesign actually runs better for me on the PC. Pains me to say it


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm positive Apple will also sell this in also as a device you can dock at home and be a lite home computer when coupled with a wireless keyboard and *mouse*.
> 
> 
> Crispy said:
> ...



*raspberry*


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

There is some dreadful - and I mean _really_ dreadful - snobbery amongst a small minority of Mac designers who like to sneer at anyone who isn't using the same OS as them. 

I met some right fucknuts when I worked in the States, who looked at me like I'd just crawled out of a bin liner when I pulled out my wee Vaio.

Thankfully, most normal people don't give a flying fuck what you create your designs on - it's the finished work that matters, not the style of your laptop.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2010)

It was a close enough prediction!


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Stephen Fry's frothing fanboyism is getting positively embarrassing now. But then he was being _personally escorted_ around Apple's launch by the iPad's designer.

http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/01/28/ipad-about/


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

But Stephem Fry isn;t mass market...he's a niche buyer, total gadget head with loads of disposable cash. Very different to ipod/iphone buyers and even many laptop buyers.


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> There is some dreadful - and I mean _really_ dreadful - snobbery amongst a small minority of Mac designers who like to sneer at anyone who isn't using the same OS as them.
> 
> I met some right fucknuts when I worked in the States, who looked at me like I'd just crawled out of a bin liner when I pulled out my wee Vaio.
> 
> Thankfully, most normal people don't give a flying fuck what you create your designs on - it's the finished work that matters, not the style of your laptop.



I've met a few of them too....turns out there the ones producing distinctly average work


----------



## Structaural (Jan 28, 2010)

I don't mind what people want to design/create on, but personally I'd have to have a Mac at work. I can't lose 20 years of muscle memory and OS knowledge. I owned a PC at home between Macs but it became really frustrating bringing work home to do on it. I'm just too used to OS X to change. And I need my command key where it is. There's not much in it though, and the PC Photoshop CS4 is truly 64-bit unlike the Mac version. If Adobe ever abandoned the Mac though, I might have to rethink that.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> I can use both mac and pc and ive freelanced in one or two studios which are pc, but its very rare. as such LOADS of designers simply don't know how to use windows. it's comical.





If you're mid 30's onwards, chances are you A level'd, Degreed & job trained on Mac's pretty exclusively. Why's it comical 

I've been on Mac's since 1992 & I've just never really come into contact (or had the need) with PC's - I know them enough to stumble around, but that's about it.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 28, 2010)

At my charity job, we had a designer who threatened to quit if we replaced his hoary old Apple laptop with anything other than a shiny MBP that he specced.

"Bye then".


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> If you're mid 30's onwards, chances are you A level'd, Degreed & job trained on Mac's pretty exclusively. Why's it comical
> 
> I've been on Mac's since 1992 & I've just never really come into contact (or had the need) with PC's - I know them enough to stumble around, but that's about it.



Because as a freelancer you should be able to deal with walking into a studio and using Windows if thats what they're using.

According to my agent when I was freelancing I was one of the few on her books who could do that. Which is prettystupid imo...


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Stephen Fry's frothing fanboyism is getting positively embarrassing now. But then he was being _personally escorted_ around Apple's launch by the iPad's designer.
> 
> http://www.stephenfry.com/2010/01/28/ipad-about/



Well, read his article and frankly I don't see it as frothing fanboyism.

And to be fair, he is hideously minted, and is a real gadget freak, so his evalution criteria are unlikely to be the same as most people.  In fact if I recall correctly he wrote about a pretty much identical device to the iPad, so this could well be an old dream come true for him


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Structaural said:


> If Adobe ever abandoned the Mac though, I might have to rethink that.


They're definitely not getting on too well these days.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Well, read his article and frankly I don't see it as frothing fanboyism.


He'd earlier said how he wanted to 'fondle and lick' the iPad and was 'drooling in anticipation at being able to buy one' which I think you will agree is about as fanboy as you can possibly get.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

I'd say they're more indications of a manic gadget freak myself. 

Fry's undoubtedly an Apple nut, but he's far from averse from gushing about any technology that takes his fancy.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> Because as a freelancer you should be able to deal with walking into a studio and using Windows if thats what they're using.
> 
> According to my agent when I was freelancing I was one of the few on her books who could do that. Which is pretty stupid imo...



Ok fair enough. You're coming across a tad sneery about it though.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 28, 2010)

Its not exactly hard to be able to switch between PC and mac if they need to..........


----------



## Structaural (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> They're definitely not getting on too well these days.



No, and I blame Apple (mostly). Adobe made the Mac successful, there should be a bit more mutual respect. Though the fact that Adobe like Apple are a victim of their own success and have virtually monopolised the graphics market (buying up Aldus and Macromedia and then killing competing products on the whole) doesn't help. Apple really are their only decent competitor (well in the semi-pro video arena anyway).


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

Apple released OSX with 2 separate APIs. One was new and based on NeXT, while the other was based on old OS9. They said from the beginning that one day, they'd drop the old API. Adobe ported over their OS9 versions of photoshop etc and never took heed of that warning. Result: No 64-bit support, because the old API can't do it. Result: Massive port/re-write of all the CS applications. No wonder Adobe's pissed off.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> He'd earlier said how he wanted to 'fondle and lick' the iPad and was 'drooling in anticipation at being able to buy one' which I think you will agree is about as fanboy as you can possibly get.



I'm afraid I'd say that it was hyperbole for comedic effect.


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

Indeed...he's a mac fan but more than that he's a huge tech geek who mixes heart on the sleeve love of tech with a lovely turn of phrase.


----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> But then he was being _personally escorted_ around Apple's launch by the iPad's designer.



Was he?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Was he?


hmmm. yes, looks like the same hands-on that other press sites got


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> hmmm. yes, looks like the same hands-on that other press sites got


I don't think they all went for breakfast with Apple design guru Jonathan Ive first, or were personally chaperoned by him around the launch party, though.

http://blogs.reuters.com/richard-ba...-what-theyre-talking-about-apple-via-jpowell/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/maggieshiels/2010/01/the_morning_after_the_tablet.html


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> I can use both mac and pc and ive freelanced in one or two studios which are pc, but its very rare. as such LOADS of designers simply don't know how to use windows. it's comical.



Surely there isn't any designer who's under, say, 25 who hasn't grown up using PCs in some form or another?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Same here. Most of the guys in our main design team would look at you with horror if you wanted to replace their macs. The higher up the food chain and the more renown an agency the more likely that seems.



+1 for the style over substance argument that can be directed at a lot of the bigger agencies.


----------



## gabi (Jan 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Surely there isn't any designer who's under, say, 25 who hasn't grown up using PCs in some form or another?



You'd be surprised


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> If you're mid 30's onwards, chances are you A level'd, Degreed & job trained on Mac's pretty exclusively. Why's it comical
> 
> I've been on Mac's since 1992 & I've just never really come into contact (or had the need) with PC's - I know them enough to stumble around, but that's about it.



I learnt Illustrator 1 and photoshop 1 on mac, _way_ before I could use a pc. wtf happened to me then? 

I could be the execption to the rule though.  I had to give up smoking weed because it motivated me so much I wore myself out!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> You'd be surprised



I frequently am.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

Well Ive been surfing the web with a browser window set to the iPads resolution, using a monitor that has the same pixels per inch as the iPad, and I think it stands a fair chance of being a hit, given time.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Maybe we'll all look back in about 6 months and be kicking ourselves for not realising what a soaraway success this is destined to be, but right now the gripes are coming in thick and fast:

Apple iPad: bashed by bloggers around the web
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/jan/28/apple-ipad-bashed-bloggers-web


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Can they not just double the res and match the aspect ratio of the iPhone to ensure backwards app compatibility?
> 
> Isn't it just going to be an equivalent to the high end Archos devices?



That was my thought It looks just like the archos 9.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

I think it will be a success. If the content is thrown out for it, definitely.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

If the interface and build quality on that archos tablet is anything like their MP3 players, it'll be SHITE


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2010)

Big if though...Sony thought the same of UMD and film studios kinda shrugged. The breadth of book for example will be critical as will the licencing of newspapers and online news content.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

g force said:


> Big if though...Sony thought the same of UMD and film studios kinda shrugged. The breadth of book for example will be critical as will the licencing of newspapers and online news content.


Given the way the paper press has been talking about this thing, I should think they'll be all over it. And I think having a fullscreen version of the newspaper to take with me in the morning would actually make me pay for a newspaper again.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

..as well as magazine publishing online via iTunes. Huge potential. At last being able to make money online for publishers.

People were creaming about paper magazines with video in them a few weeks ago...


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Given the way the paper press has been talking about this thing, I should think they'll be all over it. And I think having a fullscreen version of the newspaper to take with me in the morning would actually make me pay for a newspaper again.



Get the Metro App for your Touch and download the full version before you leave the house....


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Interesting  piece on Lifehacker: 



> The iPad, much like the iPhone, is *completely locked down*.  The user has *no control* over what she installs on the  hardware short of accepting exactly what Apple has approved for it. From  past experience, we know what happens when a completely legitimate  application—from a huge company that's actually _partnered_ with  Apple—doesn't gel with Apple's business plan. They  reject it, and you can't use it. And what recourse does the power  user have?
> 
> Jailbreaking! And certainly the iPad will see plenty of hacking, but  only because Apple _requires_ you to hack the device if you  actually want control over it yourself. Apple's gotten into the habit of  acting like you're renting hardware. They've become the all-powerful,  over-restrictive, ambivalent IT person in the sky, restricting what  users can and can't install on their hardware.
> 
> With a device like the iPhone, most people slowly accepted Apple's IT  state over time. Apple's stance is basically that their lockdown is for  your own good—they're protecting us from unstable apps, pornography, _confusion_,  and other nasties. And for the most part, it worked, right? iPhones  have remained fast, capable, and strong-like-bull, and _extremely  popular_. But conceding that Apple's restrictive policies are to  credit is sort of like claiming you've cured cancer because you knocked  on wood every morning of your life and, as a result, never got cancer.  (Sorry for the weak simile.)



http://lifehacker.com/5458690/the-problem-with-the-apple-ipad


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> If the interface and build quality on that archos tablet is anything like their MP3 players, it'll be SHITE



I have the archos 7 and have no problems with it although I'm aware some folk have net issues with being stuck with flash 9 etc. But I don't use it for the web.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Given the way the paper press has been talking about this thing, I should think they'll be all over it. And I think having a fullscreen version of the newspaper to take with me in the morning would actually make me pay for a newspaper again.


Well, that's the idea they ripped off Kindle and I think it's quite a persuasive one too, but the device I read it on would have to be cheap.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Get the Metro App for your Touch and download the full version before you leave the house....



dinky screen. SHIT newspaper


----------



## paolo (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> dinky screen. SHIT newspaper



Metro: For those who find Teletext news too heavy.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Metro: For those who find Teletext news too heavy.



Teletext gone, something had to replace it


----------



## Structaural (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Apple released OSX with 2 separate APIs. One was new and based on NeXT, while the other was based on old OS9. They said from the beginning that one day, they'd drop the old API. Adobe ported over their OS9 versions of photoshop etc and never took heed of that warning. Result: No 64-bit support, because the old API can't do it. Result: Massive port/re-write of all the CS applications. No wonder Adobe's pissed off.



Yep. But Cocoa's been out for ages now. If Adobe wanted to keep Photoshop as fast and efficient as it's been in the past they should have started on that some time ago. Photoshop's been pretty slow for the most part for years - it's barely multi-threaded, uses RAM haphazardly (and that's the main reason to go 64-bit so it can use more than 3GB, I've got layers bigger than that) and it still doesn't save prefs until you quit (grrrr - most annoying when you've made 10 actions and it quits). I'm not letting Adobe off either, they're getting a bit complacent, bloaty apps with underlying bugs that haven't been fixed for years. But no-one will be switching to GIMP anytime soon...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm tied to CS - because we do character licensing, all the graphics and all the style guides are always in the latest edition of cs.  When they upgrade, we have to, too - I can't see the BBC or ITV (some of the licensors we work with) swapping to anything else anytime soon.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

It's total lock-in and adobe can be as lazy as they want 
Same situation with Autodesk in the CAD/BIM world


----------



## Structaural (Jan 28, 2010)

Init, but look what happened to quark. That'll teach them, though they're on a bit of a comeback because of inDesigns bugs (geez sort out the Pdf export), but they'll never get that sort of market share again

Enough from me on this derail...


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

It's a little sad to see such a decline in the relationship really. A long time ago we did a tie up at Cannes with Adobe and their bigwigs and general crew seemed like huge Apple fans. There was a real buzz around CS starting and all seemed well. It's difficult to know when things began to turn really, but they both seemed trapped in a bit of a symbiotic relationship now.

From my point of view I still resent Adobe for the truly shit performance of Flash on PowerPC chips. An awful bit of slow and jerky software that really never got better.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> It's a little sad to see such a decline in the relationship really.


 
Awaits their profiles on eHarmony with interest.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Maybe we'll all look back in about 6 months and be kicking ourselves for not realising what a soaraway success this is destined to be, but right now the gripes are coming in thick and fast



Yeah I cant bet my life on it and obviously I am wary of my own bias, but with every passing hour now that I have time to recover from the vast quantity of words and initial opinions that have emerged, Im betting its going to be a huge hit, and am pressing ahead with my development plans.

Watching the full Apple presentation in decent quality helped - the graphics performance of games looks like it will be just about good enough to satisfy that segment, and I think it is cheap enough with just enough features to be a big hit with business. 

The very nature of the tablet form factor certainly means there is more risk of this failing to take off than most Apple products of the last decade, so it would not be completely stupid to bet against this device, but at a minimum it is far too early to write this device off.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 28, 2010)

elbows said:


> Watching the full Apple presentation in decent quality helped - the graphics performance of games looks like it will be just about good enough to satisfy that segment



Yeah, but as with the iPhone, less than amazing controls let down the high-end graphics titles. You need an analogue stick for 3D to be worth it.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> From my point of view I still resent Adobe for the truly shit performance of Flash on PowerPC chips. An awful bit of slow and jerky software that really never got better.



Only with the most recent updates to flash player 10 have performance factors such as cpu use when playing back video reached acceptable levels on os x.

Sometimes we lose out when corporations collide, but there has been quite a lot of good stuff happening as a result of intense competition between the likes of adobe, google, apple, microsoft in certain areas of the internet & related technologies. Flash for video playback in browser helped to kill quicktime & wmv plugin horrors, then h264s rise forced flash and silverlight to support that standard. Now various mobile devices are reversing the tide of flash domination, as well as making it even harder for Silverlight to take off and are giving momentum to proper web html etc standards. Its not a perfect picture, with some mess remaining over video format used by html5 video tags, but its better than we'd have if all these corps had cosied up and played nice with eachother more unless part of that cosying up involved voluntarily abandoning some of their proprietary technologies such as flash.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, but as with the iPhone, less than amazing controls let down the high-end graphics titles. You need an analogue stick for 3D to be worth it.



True except developers try to turn this limitation into an advantage by finding new ways to use the multitouch and accelerometers to control games, and indeed new or modified forms of gameplay. There is room for all kinds of different gameplay and control in the world, its been quite a joy to see the wii and iphone alternatives, and I look forward to microsofts project natal a lot too. Its still relatively early days for touch & multitouch games in general, this is a good platform to see what can be done with a larger screen and touch/accelerometers.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jan 28, 2010)

You know what, this is really good for the premium eReader market. With the ipad sat around $499 it's going to kill virtually any eReader around that price. The main reason the damned things cost so much right now is the lack of competition, goodbye premium pricing.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2010)

There's a bit of a mess with <video> but everyone knows it'll be H.264 cos it has such widespread hardware support. Youtube are offering it as a trial and where they lead, others will follow. Not long now, I reckon.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> There's a bit of a mess with <video> but everyone knows it'll be H.264 cos it has such widespread hardware support. Youtube are offering it as a trial and where they lead, others will follow. Not long now, I reckon.



Plus h.264 was already catching on for years now and most modern sites that use flash for video already have all the actual video files in h.264, the flash is just a wrapper round it, so it was really trivial for youtube to do a version of the page that didnt have this flash wrapper. It'l take them a while to add all of the other functionality they built into their flash video player to non-flash versions, and I assume flash as a video playing wrapper will live on for years due to the usual enemy internet explorer, but yeah I cant see how ogg theora is going to compete with h.264. Thus firefox may be the big victim in this battle, as its hard for their open model to work with the h.264 license. Google gets the best of both worlds by supporting both video formats in chrome, and Apple stick to the h.264 strategy that they have persued since around 2005.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Heh the iPad got two front pages today in the Times and Indy. Apple are PR masters!


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

They don't like it on core77.  (Industrial design bullletin boards). Oh dear.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 28, 2010)

I have recently been amused by Opinion Pieces On The Internet that have simultaneously criticised the iPad for being "locked down" and not open, and at the same time for not supporting Flash.

Personally I want Flash to die. If a browser plugin could die painfully I'd like that, but I don't think it can, so I'll settle for simple demise, and if Apple can help that I'll clap my flippers in delight.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 28, 2010)

Flippers? This multitouch lark isn't for the likes of you.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 28, 2010)

I've got two flippers inaye?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 28, 2010)

Salinger dead at 91 of iPad disappointment.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Flippers? This multitouch lark isn't for the likes of you.


  On core77 they wanted a stylus.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 28, 2010)

pinkmonkey said:


> On core77 they wanted a stylus.



if you can't run illustrator on something, what's the point?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

It gets worse:

Confirmed: no iPad iBooks for Blighty


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 28, 2010)

That's a good thing surely? "Oh dear you won't be able to buy stupidly overpriced ebooks with DRM that lets us delete them if we fancy it."


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That's a good thing surely? "Oh dear you won't be able to buy stupidly overpriced ebooks with DRM that lets us delete them if we fancy it."



But of a fucker if you buy expecting to see lots of lovely colourful books on it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 28, 2010)

Only if you expected to just be able to buy them from Apple; you could still read other ebooks, just like you can on the iPhone. Though I bet they'll internationalise it fairly swiftly.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> if you can't run illustrator on something, what's the point?


If it ran illustrator, they'd have been in with a chance, with me. It's a shiny toy really isn't it?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Only if you expected to just be able to buy them from Apple; you could still read other ebooks



The link implies otherwise...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 28, 2010)

No; the "iBooks" thing appears to be just for ones purchased via Apple but there are a million and one ebook-reading apps already.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2010)

A mate of mine wrote this pretty decent piece (he's a web designer):



> As a web developer I have to accept that the Apple app-store approach is bad for the web. When one creates an application for the web, be it using the latest HTML5 techniques or Flash, one can be sure that everyone can use it. As crap as Flash is for online video, it excels in some areas (like casual gaming). But that would mean that Apple loose out to free online alternatives to many (if not most) apps in their store.
> 
> Apple is creating an elite version of the web, for only those who pay them directly, and because of this the iPhone and the iPad must be seen as poisonous to the internet, just as iTunes is poison to the music industry.


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## spitfire (Jan 28, 2010)

I have one (stanza) on my iPhone, therefore it will work on the iPad. Just no iBooks (yet), hey ho.

I see the iPad as being a slow burner, the iPad won't make the big splash that the Iphone made but in a couple of years it will make sense. I won't be buying one yet, same as I didn't buy the first iPhone. but I won't be writing it off.

Also as a fairly casual user, lack of Flash has not been a massive problem for me on the iPhone. can't say I'm that bothered.


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## teuchter (Jan 28, 2010)

Been reading the discussion about designers preferring macs a few pages back... One of the reasons for this that wasn't mentioned, was that mac products are generally very well designed from a visual point of view.
If what you do is some kind of visual design/'creative' work, you value things looking good. If you didn't... you'd be kind of hypocritical. So, you don't really want your studio full of ugly Dell PCs. Apple products on the whole are very, very well designed from a visual point of view. The same extends to the interface. The Apple OS interface simply looks better than windows and is more cleanly designed.
I can understand why geek types might have a hard time getting their head around this, because functionality is what they are mainly interested in. They will scoff at the notion of paying extra for something that looks better rather than works better. But that's just a reflection of their different priorities and sensitivities.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 28, 2010)

has the 'hitler ipad' youtube been posted yet?  here it is anyway


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No; the "iBooks" thing appears to be just for ones purchased via Apple but there are a million and one ebook-reading apps already.



let us pray apple  don't fix it  so they don't run on the ipad

that's being a little  bit of a worry wart  though


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				bouncer_the_dog said:
			
		

> has the 'hitler ipad' youtube been posted yet?  here it is anyway




I'm going to kill the person that made that Downful film.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 29, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Been reading the discussion about designers preferring macs a few pages back... One of the reasons for this that wasn't mentioned, was that mac products are generally very well designed from a visual point of view.
> If what you do is some kind of visual design/'creative' work, you value things looking good. If you didn't... you'd be kind of hypocritical. So, you don't really want your studio full of ugly Dell PCs. Apple products on the whole are very, very well designed from a visual point of view. The same extends to the interface. The Apple OS interface simply looks better than windows and is more cleanly designed.
> I can understand why geek types might have a hard time getting their head around this, because functionality is what they are mainly interested in. They will scoff at the notion of paying extra for something that looks better rather than works better. But that's just a reflection of their different priorities and sensitivities.



not sure that is why they were traditionally used, maybe now, some of them were ugly back in the day!
when i used to do a bit of design in the late 90's Macs were just what was used and they could handle the bigger progs and files better. and what printers init bruv. 
was it not that macs processed bigger files better and had more RAM then or something to do with the graphics cards?

of course pc's caught up and other posters have covered that better than i can.


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## teuchter (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm sure those were all reasons in the early days... I'm not a computer historian... I just know that looks are an influencing factor now and have been I guess since the first iMacs.


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## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

teuchter said:


> If what you do is some kind of visual design/'creative' work, you value things looking good. If you didn't... you'd be kind of hypocritical. So, you don't really want your studio full of ugly Dell PCs.


That's a really, _really_ stupid argument. Following your daft logic, design companies would only employ good looking people for fear of having an 'ugly' view in their offices.



Back on topic, Adobe are still showing just how unchuffed they are: 



> It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
> 
> If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab -- not to mention the millions of other sites on the web -- I'll be out of luck.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/28/adobe-on-flash-and-the-ipad-apple-is-continuing-to-impose-rest/


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## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> design companies would only employ good looking people for fear of having an 'ugly' view in their offices.



This isn't THAT unusual ^^ ....


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm looking forward to this, for the first time in my Apple purchasing history (nearly 20 years) I'll be picking up a rev 1 device.

Must say there is a lot of crap being posted on this thread, and apparently by tech savvy individuals...

Couple of things for me:

No Flash - thank christ, the sooner there is a move to the HTML5 standard the better (Youtube and now Vimeo supporting h264), if Apple can help eliminate Flash from the web all the better. 

No camera - This is a Rev 1 device, people need to look at previous rev 1 devices by Apple and see how limited they were on release to what they became a few revisions later - with that in mind I think this device gives a huge amount on it's first release. - and no camera isn't a huge issue for me at the moment.

No Multi-task - no doubt a software update will address this, Apple doesn't want sluggish performance on it's new device on launch - again, not a huge issue for me as I know it won't be forever.

Bezel around device - how the fuck else are you going to hold the damn thing? and not get in way of both the screen and touch sensors?

Oh yeah, everyone was going on about it costing around the $1000 mark - lol


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a really, _really_ stupid argument. Following your daft logic, design companies would only employ good looking people for fear of having an 'ugly' view in their offices.
> 
> 
> 
> Back on topic, Adobe are still showing just how unchuffed they are:



it's not really anywhere near the same is it? People involved in product design prefer to choose well designed computers and surround their office with them, as surely as day follows night and well designed studios are created to leave an impression with clients and inspire employees. And whatever you throw at Apple their computers, especially in the last decade, have had a strong and consistent design ethos where form tends to follow function. That's not the same as just picking dolly birds and hunks just to brighten up the office, any office.

Historically Macs had some compelling advantages over pcs when it came to design software and the OS. That's long been eroded, but you can't blame folks in the design industry from taking more than a passing interest and affinity in a brand with an outstanding reputation for product design. There's some ponciness and pickiness for sure, but you can understand that given the field.


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## mauvais (Jan 29, 2010)

There is no HTML 5 video standard. Mozilla want Ogg, the other smaller shares want H.264, and Microsoft haven't bothered at all. Even then all you've covered is dumb video - nothing interactive. There's not really an excuse for omitting Flash from a serious web device.


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## fen_boy (Jan 29, 2010)

mauvais said:


> Even then all you've covered is dumb video - nothing interactive. There's not really an excuse for omitting Flash from a serious web device.



Isn't that what HTML5 Canvas is for?


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## teuchter (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a really, _really_ stupid argument. Following your daft logic, design companies would only employ good looking people for fear of having an 'ugly' view in their offices.



Well, your appearance will certainly affect your chances of getting a job. At least, what you are wearing and stuff. Yes, this applies to any job but in the visual/design industries it means more than just showing up for the interview in a suit and tie.


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## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a really, _really_ stupid argument.



No it's not. 
But in relation, your following analogy is.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 29, 2010)

Same applies to furniture by the way. Any half decent self respecting design business will not have bog standard office chairs. FACT


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## Sunray (Jan 29, 2010)

People should not be advocating H264 as a video format like Apple does.  Its problem is that there are huge patent issues with regard to H264, technology on the web should be patent free.  Note that there is PNG file format. Why?  Because of patent issues.  

Read Mozilla reason for not using H264 and understand that is a very powerful argument.  Unless someone like google buys the patent holders and makes them free for all then its Ogg or perhaps On2 as google just bought them.


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## fen_boy (Jan 29, 2010)

The HTML5 version of youtube isn't very good yet.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

Sunray said:


> People should not be advocating H264 as a video format like Apple does.  Its problem is that there are huge patent issues with regard to H264, technology on the web should be patent free.  Note that there is PNG file format. Why?  Because of patent issues.
> 
> Read Mozilla reason for not using H264 and understand that is a very powerful argument.  Unless someone like google buys the patent holders and makes them free for all then its Ogg or perhaps On2 as google just bought them.


Except loads of devices already have hardware support for decoding h264. Ogg can't be run on these devices without caning the CPU. I agree that h264 is a box of patent hurt, but realistically, Ogg doesn't stand a chance.


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## elbows (Jan 29, 2010)

The h.264 patent issues are a shame, and are especially painful for the likes of firefox to try to deal with, but unless the license terms for h.264 become extremely draconian in future then it wont affect many people. It could become a nightmare, or not.

I could not safely bet that ogg theora will catch on before the h.264 patents expire.

html5 and css3 are not miracles, and it will take a while for flash to be displaced, but to assume these alternatives are pointless just because the reality right now is imperfect is a mistake. 

Of course its also true that the lack of flash on devices like the iPad is a real issue for real users, one that will diminish with time and will help the standards-based web as time goes on, but these issues certainly have an ugly side.


----------



## elbows (Jan 29, 2010)

Anyway I have no shame at all in advocating h.264 because:

The quality/filesize ratio is quite good.
Hardware accelerated encoding&decoding can save a lot of energy
I spent years moaning in the bad old days when there were lots of different video formats on the web which made it confusing for many people and h.264 is largely responsible for taking away much of that pain. 

Flash played a big part in enabling browser-based video to take off, it did something useful, but I would like to see its domination wane in future. Likewise I would not be sad to see h.264 go, and to advocate alternatives, but only when these alternatives are actually winners when it comes to the main issues of practicality. For that to happen we require far more than some people preaching the benefits of open technology, we need developers to actually harness this to provide great tools & functionality. That hasnt come close to happening with ogg yet, which remains largely trapped in a timewarp no matter how much Mozilla wail about the issue.


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## magneze (Jan 29, 2010)

Ogg Theora would catch on if someone like Google wanted it to and started supporting it. Now they have their own browser supporting H264 is a neat was of killing off Firefox market share as they know Mozilla can't afford to support it.


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## mauvais (Jan 29, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Isn't that what HTML5 Canvas is for?


Partly, but it's not going to be enough.

HTML5 isn't Flash, and it isn't Flex or Silverlight or (ha) JavaFX. All of these are very attractive for development, and although all the vendors _could _have got it all hideously wrong, Apple definitely aren't going to be the nail in anyone's coffin. HTML5 will solve some issues but it won't address just as many, it'll be years before anyone serious takes it seriously, and when they do the rest of the RIA world will have already marched on.

If you want to deploy an app *now *and be guaranteed it'll work on most of your customers' machines, you damned sure don't consider HTML5. Hell, you can do it in any bonkers proprietary technology you like as long as you can add a plugin for it to IE and a handful of other browsers. But you can't do it in HTML5.

That alone is why web on the iPad is ever so slightly useless without Flash.


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## kyser_soze (Jan 29, 2010)

On the design agency front, I've known clients to 'worry' that their creative work wouldn't be 'up to scratch. because they didn't see a bank of Macs when they visited the office...


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

Mozilla will end up pushing h264 decoding onto the OS's video system - directshow on windows, quicktime on mac etc. Then it's just up to the OS to support the decoding. Doesn't remove the problem, because linux distros still can't legally include h264 without paying the license (so I suppose Red Hat and the other commercials will manage to)


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## mauvais (Jan 29, 2010)

The other point to consider is why you would cut off your nose to spite your face.

You don't like Flash because what, all the adverts use it? People build stupid Flash heavy sites that are hell to navigate, just because the technology is there? Fine...

...and you think HTML 5 will be different because...?

Flash probably isn't the most efficient video streaming mechanism. It adds a third party component to the browser that makes reliability a much more complex issue. It's a proprietary standard. There are plenty of other failings.

In practice though, these things really don't interfere that heavily with anyone's life. All the things it's hated for are transferable to whatever the next big thing is. On the other hand it runs on something like 95% of computers - remember that the average enterprise is likely still on IE6. It's tried, tested, and atechnical graphic designers can build stuff in it.


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

It runs shitly on a comparatively high percentage of those 95% of computers though. And many of the world's worst designed and most fatuous websites are Flash based. I'm not going to shed a tear that it's lost, nor that legions of clunky flash developers will have to become more trained.


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## mauvais (Jan 29, 2010)

They won't be any better trained though, will they? Do you not remember frames? Background music? <blink>? People automatically do all the stupid things they can with whatever tools they're given, and just changing up the platform will do next to nothing.


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm not convinced by that. Flash's approach and terminology (producers etc) tend to make it more visual and 'flashy' than other web standards.

Even the name suggests a little extra frill. Even allowing for stereotypes, Flash often became a parody of itself.


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

Can't edit for some reason, but I think it's fair to say that most decent sized firms and corporates didn't go for gaudy websites with background music and awfulness aplenty. That way lies new age and conspiraloon websites.

However, nearly every company in the world will now have repeatedly been presented overblown Flash intros and near usable bits of nonsense by agencies and producers. There's some good flash stuff, but it does tend to overindulge the awful too.


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## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> There's some good flash stuff, but it does tend to overindulge the awful too.



As you can probably imagine, a lot photograhers got seriously carried away with flash for their sites at first - there were, & still are, some naval gazing Fail montrosities out there that would take busy AD's ages to get to the actual work - the best one I ever saw borked on launch & then said something like "were sorry, this site needs Internet Explorer to be viewed"  

I stipulated a no flash rule for my site & that the portfolios must be one click from the homepage.


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

Check this out for complex interactive web application with no flash: http://www.freeciv.net/


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## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> it's not really anywhere near the same is it? People involved in product design prefer to choose well designed computers and surround their office with them, as surely as day follows night and well designed studios are created to leave an impression with clients and inspire employees. And whatever you throw at Apple their computers, especially in the last decade, have had a strong and consistent design ethos where form tends to follow function. That's not the same as just picking dolly birds and hunks just to brighten up the office, any office.


No, really. It's a shit argument.

Most clients don't give a flying fuck abut the shape, look or brand of the computers being used by design monkeys: they've got more important things to worry about, like the design, the budget, the deadline and the overall work itself.

I've headed up big projects for some very large clients - Virgin Radio, Capital Radio, BBC, British Council, XFM and some large US companies - and not once has the fact that I've designed their sites _exclusively_ on a PC been an issue.

Stupid argument is stupid argument.


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## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Check this out for complex interactive web application with no flash: http://www.freeciv.net/



You fucker.... I didn't know about that site... 

No work being done by me today then!


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

not sure if they have computer players on it 
(if you find an opponent, they'll probably crush you!)


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## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> I've headed up big projects for some very large clients - Virgin Radio, Capital Radio, BBC, British Council, XFM and some large US companies - and not once has the fact that I've designed their sites _exclusively_ on a PC been an issue.



I absolutely _knew_ that was coming when I read the other posts earlier


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## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> I absolutely _knew_ that was coming when I read the other posts earlier


Sometimes you just gotta slap down the bullshit.

If I thought - for a second - that my choice of OS was somehow stopping me getting work, I'd change platforms in an instant, but it's something that's never, ever come up.


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## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Sometimes you just gotta slap down the bullshit.
> 
> .


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Jan 29, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Must say there is a lot of crap being posted on this thread, and apparently by tech savvy individuals...



You may want to hold off on accusing other people of talking crap when you're going to make claims like the following

1 "No Flash - thank christ, the sooner there is a move to the HTML5 standard the better"

I think you'd struggle to find anyone here opposed to the takeup of HTML5.  What is undeniable though is that there is a huge range of web content that currently requires flash.  I'd hope you accept it is entirely reasonable to criticise a device intended to be used for web browsing on the grounds that it cannot handle currennt content.

2 "No camera - This is a Rev 1 device, people need to look at previous rev 1 devices by Apple and see how limited they were on release to what they became a few revisions later"

You mean we should judge the device by what it may be in future releases, rather than what it is now?  I don't think that's even vaguely logical.  Any current device can be excused by saying "well a future one will be much better"

3.  "No Multi-task - no doubt a software update will address this, Apple doesn't want sluggish performance on it's new device on launch - again, not a huge issue for me as I know it won't be forever."

I'm glad you know this to be the case.  The moment it comes around, then this issue can rightly be put aside.  Until then, it is a serious limitation on the usefullness of the device.

4.  "Bezel around device - how the fuck else are you going to hold the damn thing? and not get in way of both the screen and touch sensors?"  Considering the iphone does not have a bezel on left or right side, yet people still manage to use that, it would appear that your point is wrong.

When the iPhone first came out I looked at it and decided that as gorgeous as it was, glaring omissions such as 3G and SMS meant it was no use for me.  When they released the 3, corrected these and other points, and reduced the price as well, then I happily bought one.  In the future, I hope the iPad will be similarly improved.  Until then though, all I can do is judge it on the current state, which is sadly limited.


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

Sometimes you just gotta slap down the bullshit.

If I thought - for a second - that my choice of OS was somehow stopping me getting work, I'd change platforms in an instant, but it's something that's never, ever come up.

Again you seem to be suspiciously quick to misread others posts and take them on a weirdly unbalanced angle. I talk about designers understandably being attached to products and brands with decent design values and you witter on about personal anecdotes about 'not getting work.' It's a ludicrous, tactical extreme misreading which betrays your bias. It seems fundamentally weird to attempt to deny that folks involved with design and advertising understandably value good design and appreciate brand values and loyalties. 

With the greatest of respect Capital and Virgin Radio hardly count as hugely respected brand or marketing powerhouses. Had they or a more high profile advertiser  wanted more brand leading work it's likely they'd have chosen a different approach, just as surely that not every design agency is the same

If you want to blow trumpets, I've worked with North, Fathom, and Kessels Kramer through to Sky, Reuters and lower profile ad agencies. At Getty Images I spent over 6 years marketing to creative professionals, building customer profiles and getting a feel for their favoured brands and values. I can only comment that logic, research and wide experience seems to be against your 'design doesn't matter to designers or their customers' approach.


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## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

TBF to editor, I don't think the BBC give a shit that I work on a pc.  I get tapped up by Nike about every six months (not that I ever say yes), don't think they give a shit either.  All they give a shit about is whether our stuff sells.


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## paolo (Jan 29, 2010)

I spent two years happily using a modern phone whilst people looked on and tutted about things like MMS, which they rarely ever used. Two years of their Symbian, or Windows Mobile, or whatever. They pulled out their styluses, peered at their tiny screens, poked around on numeric keypads. Ah yes, they said, if I go through these menu options, you'll see - "hang on a moment, it's here somewhere" - here's the GPS! 

Two years later they bought a modern phone. It was never about MMS or cut and paste. Anyone who says that is in denial.


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

pinkmonkey said:


> TBF to editor, I don't think the BBC give a shit that I work on a pc.  I get tapped up by Nike about every six months (not that I ever say yes), don't think they give a shit either.  All they give a shit about is whether our stuff sells.


Of course, but that doesn't stop the design teams choosing macs just because they look nice. My boss does this with furniture.


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

I don't disagree with that fwiw. I do object to the fundamental misreading of my post and quoting it to argue something I didn't suggest.

Of course clients shouldn't care about which machine their work is created on. However to deny that designers/marketeers can become attached to brands and their values and that clients can be won over by similar seems weird to the point of contrariness.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Of course, but that doesn't stop the design teams choosing macs just because they look nice. My boss does this with furniture.



I don't like them, I think they're starting to look dated.  I want a steampunked ipad.


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

pinkmonkey said:


> I don't like them, I think they're starting to look dated.  I want a steampunked ipad.


ewww!


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## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> ewww!



All that smooth shiny, radius edged, glossiness, it's so noughties.


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

But Steampunk is so 80s


TBH it's not just the outward appearance of Apple machines, it the brand which attracts as well. It's a company with design at its core, not an efficient organised producer like Dell or beancouter-filled all things to all men company like MS. For us, by us.

That may not be really that true in reality of course, but brand associations are a precious things.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> If you want to blow trumpets, I've worked with North, Fathom, and  Kessels Kramer through to Sky, Reuters and lower profile ad  agencies.


Funnily enough, I turned down the biggest contract I've ever been  offered from Reuters, and they didn't seem to care much about what  machine I was using. In fact, they never bothered to ask - just like  every client I've ever worked for. Just about no one gives a fuck really, and rightly so.


tarannau said:


> However to deny that designers/marketeers can become attached to brands and their values and that clients can be won over by similar seems weird to the point of contrariness.


I'm having trouble making sense of your point here. Are you suggesting that if a client has two equally attractive tenders for a design contract, they'll then ask what machines were used to create the work and then choose the Mac version over the PC one?


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

EDIT: Tech forum argument = WASTE OF MY TIME


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## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

I thought this was about walking into an office and seeing what people have setup? Not what you have at home as a freelancer?


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## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

Christ you really are trying too hard to misread. I have said nothing of the sort. 

It's such a remarkably unrealistic and artificially limited question to be almost useless fwiw. As a client I don't select agencies to pitch on a whim, devoid of other considerations or our impressions of them. Nor is it ever a simple shoot out between one piece of work and another - that would clearly be oversimplistic.

I note however, you still can't bring yourself to comment on the obvious logic that those involved in design and marketing tend to value good design and brand association, both qualities that Apple do well in. See Teuchter's comment about office chairs earlier. 

It's this evasion and obvious misrepresentation which gets my goat.


----------



## stowpirate (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I thought this was about walking into an office and seeing what people have setup? Not what you have at home as a freelancer?



What has any of  this to do with the product. You are not seriously going to do any  work on an iPad except maybe an email or two. To me it just looks like another product designed to point you at iTunes, App store etc... albeit an entertainment console with a few bells and whistles so a  must have gadget for some albeit I think the iPhone does a better job.


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## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

stowpirate said:


> You are not seriously going to do any  work on an iPad except maybe an email or two. To me it just looks like another product designed to point you at iTunes, App store etc... albeit an entertainment console with a few bells and whistles so a  must have gadget for some albeit I think the iPhone does a better job.



Yes, I said that earlier in the thread.


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## stowpirate (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Yes, I said that earlier in the thread.



The whole debate has turned into a flame war


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## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau;10253849]It's a company with design at its core said:


> I note however, you still can't bring yourself to comment on the obvious  logic that those involved in design and marketing tend to value good  design and brand association, both qualities that Apple do well in.


I'm 'associated with design' and I 'tend to value good design' too but I  find your comment trite and meaningless.

I've never, ever, ever, known anyone not get work because of their  choice of operating system. I've worked with major design agencies and  no one's given a fuck. I've headed up a large US start up and no one gave a fuck there either, and I'm pretty sure they cared about good design and brand association too, so what is your point?

Are you saying that using Apple products give you an inherent advantage over the competition?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

stowpirate said:


> The whole debate has turned into a flame war



Aye 

Can you all piss off with the derail? 

Cheers


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 29, 2010)

stowpirate said:


> The whole debate has turned into a flame war



Good old urban.


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## Lemon Eddy (Jan 29, 2010)

Any chance that this hijack could be moved to its own thread, as it's sod all to do with the iPad.


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## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

As an aside, I was at a mobile network shindig last night and was talking to a mad-for-it Nokia PR bloke.

I felt sorry for him. Remember Nokia's tablets?

Exactly.

*Oh, I'm done arguing with tarannau.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jan 29, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> You may want to hold off on accusing other people of talking crap when you're going to make claims like the following
> 
> 1 "No Flash - thank christ, the sooner there is a move to the HTML5 standard the better"
> 
> I think you'd struggle to find anyone here opposed to the takeup of HTML5.  What is undeniable though is that there is a huge range of web content that currently requires flash.  I'd hope you accept it is entirely reasonable to criticise a device intended to be used for web browsing on the grounds that it cannot handle currennt content.



Like it or not Flash runs like dog shit on OS X, the majority of Flash on the web is used for film/movie clips, a move to h.264 would suit me a whole lot better, I fail to see an issue with that? maybe you should get talking to Adobe on that one.



Lemon Eddy said:


> 2 "No camera - This is a Rev 1 device, people need to look at previous rev 1 devices by Apple and see how limited they were on release to what they became a few revisions later"
> 
> You mean we should judge the device by what it may be in future releases, rather than what it is now?  I don't think that's even vaguely logical.  Any current device can be excused by saying "well a future one will be much better"



I mentioned that a camera is not top of _my_ list, and that this is no doubt something that will be introduced at a latter date, people dismissing the product on a lack of a camera, imho, are a little short-sighted (!)



Lemon Eddy said:


> 3.  "No Multi-task - no doubt a software update will address this, Apple doesn't want sluggish performance on it's new device on launch - again, not a huge issue for me as I know it won't be forever."
> 
> I'm glad you know this to be the case.  The moment it comes around, then this issue can rightly be put aside.  Until then, it is a serious limitation on the usefullness of the device.



_Serious?_ I don't think so, you can still play music and surf the web for instance, it's certainly not a serious issue.



Lemon Eddy said:


> 4.  "Bezel around device - how the fuck else are you going to hold the damn thing? and not get in way of both the screen and touch sensors?"
> 
> Considering the iphone does not have a bezel on left or right side, yet people still manage to use that, it would appear that your point is wrong.



I disagree, my point is correct.



Lemon Eddy said:


> When the iPhone first came out I looked at it and decided that as gorgeous as it was, glaring omissions such as 3G and SMS meant it was no use for me.  When they released the 3, corrected these and other points, and reduced the price as well, then I happily bought one.  In the future, I hope the iPad will be similarly improved.  Until then though, all I can do is judge it on the current state, which is sadly limited.



one man's limitation is another mans _look what I can do with this_

As i've mentioned. compared to previous rev 1 products from Apple, this one is surprisingly feature packed (and I'm not comparing it to any other device by any other manufacturer). 

The talking crap comment was aimed at a couple of posters who seem obsessed with dismissing this product before it's even been reviewed/released, and who would appear to be technical types. It appears to boil down to Flash/Camera/Multi-Task. If these are so important to you right now then obviously this is not for you at the moment (and if Flash is important to you then you may as well give up now).


----------



## stowpirate (Jan 29, 2010)

What is the upgrade path on the iPad? Can you replace the default OS with Windows, Linux or something more exotic or is the device locked. If so it is an expensive gadget to be sitting gathering dust when it becomes obsolete in a  years time? I can stomach an inexpensive gadget like a bog standard mobile being landfill fodder within a couple of years but not something as expensive as this.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Jan 29, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:
			
		

> Like it or not Flash runs like dog shit on OS X, the majority of Flash on the web is used for film/movie clips, a move to h.264 would suit me a whole lot better, I fail to see an issue with that? maybe you should get talking to Adobe on that one.



Completely missing the point.  Whether you like it or not, a huge amount of web content uses flash.  As such any device that does not support it at all is clearly limited.




			
				sunnysidedown said:
			
		

> I mentioned that a camera is not top of _my_ list, and that this is no doubt something that will be introduced at a latter date, people dismissing the product on a lack of a camera, imho, are a little short-sighted (!)



And again, completely missing the point.  For people who need a camera then marking it down because it does not have a camera is not shortsighted.  It's hardly as if this is a feature that will magically appear in OS4, it is something the device does not do.  If a future device rolls out with a camera, wonderful - it can be judged on its own merits.  You are trying to claim that we should judge the iPad on the upgrades it may get in the future, which is self-evidently ridiculous.




			
				sunnysidedown said:
			
		

> _Serious?_ I don't think so, you can still play music and surf the web for instance, it's certainly not a serious issue.



The fuck it isn't.  I want to read a book and listen to spotify.  Nope, can't do that.  I want to jump between an email and a pdf file.  Nope, can't do that.  It is a ridiculous thing to say that the omission of a standard feature of devices for many years is not a serious issue

And no, just saying "I disagree, my point is correct." does not somehow change the fact that my perfectly useable iPhone doesn't have a bezel, so the iPad should be just as useable without one.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jan 29, 2010)

stowpirate said:


> What is the upgrade path on the iPad? Can you replace the default OS with Windows, Linux or something more exotic or is the device locked. If so it is an expensive gadget to be sitting gathering dust when it becomes obsolete in a  years time? I can stomach an inexpensive gadget like a bog standard mobile being landfill fodder within a couple of years but not something as expensive as this.



I think Apple are going to make this device for over 14 year olds, it looks like you're out of luck kiddo.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> And no, just saying "I disagree, my point is correct." does not somehow change the fact that my perfectly useable iPhone doesn't have a bezel, so the iPad should be just as useable without one.



The iPad is quite a bit wider, iPhone actually FITS in your hand....


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> It seems fundamentally weird to attempt to deny that folks involved with design and advertising understandably value good design and appreciate brand values and loyalties.





Crispy said:


> that doesn't stop the design teams choosing macs just because they look nice. My boss does this with furniture.



Exactly & Exactly.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Exactly & Exactly.




We're trying to get this thread back on topic.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> I've never, ever, ever, known anyone not get work because of their  choice of operating system. I've worked with major design agencies and  no one's given a fuck. I've headed up a large US start up and no one gave a fuck there either, and I'm pretty sure they cared about good design and brand association too, so what is your point?



Oh please, put a sock in it.

(BTW, are you aware that your online portfolio appears to be very pixelated & made up of work mainly from the last century? Maybe a little update is wouldn't be a bad idea)


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> We're trying to get this thread back on topic.



What, you mean after you de-railed it?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jan 29, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Completely missing the point.  Whether you like it or not, a huge amount of web content uses flash.  As such any device that does not support it at all is clearly limited.



Apart from film/movie clips, what am I missing out on, exactly?



Lemon Eddy said:


> And again, completely missing the point.  For people who need a camera then marking it down because it does not have a camera is not shortsighted.  It's hardly as if this is a feature that will magically appear in OS4, it is something the device does not do.  If a future device rolls out with a camera, wonderful - it can be judged on its own merits.  You are trying to claim that we should judge the iPad on the upgrades it may get in the future, which is self-evidently ridiculous.



It is currently a device sans camera, if you need a camera your going to have to wait, otherwise - buy something else.




Lemon Eddy said:


> The fuck it isn't.  I want to read a book and listen to spotify.  Nope, can't do that.  I want to jump between an email and a pdf file.  Nope, can't do that.  It is a ridiculous thing to say that the omission of a standard feature of devices for many years is not a serious issue



Use a computer then, buy a laptop or whatever... Have you read any hands on experiences with the iPad yet? most refer to the speed of the device, obviously Apple want to show off their first foray into chip development and this will be helped by _initially_ only running single apps - the OS is already MT.



Lemon Eddy said:


> And no, just saying "I disagree, my point is correct." does not somehow change the fact that my perfectly useable iPhone doesn't have a bezel, so the iPad should be just as useable without one.



Rubbish, your fingers would not only obscure the screen but you would be also interfering with the multi-touch gestures... again, have you actually read any hands on reviews?


----------



## gabi (Jan 29, 2010)

Wow. what a classic willy-waving car crash of a thread this has turned into. well done


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> (BTW, are you aware that your online portfolio appears to be very pixelated & made up of work mainly from the last century? Maybe a little update is wouldn't be a bad idea)


To be honest, I might take it down soon because I can't be arsed to update it - and I get my work from word of mouth these days.

It was also problematic having it updated as it was occasionally providing ammo for sick fuckwits from here and elsewhere to have a pop at me.

One bunch of charmers went out of their way to _write to all my clients_ to try and get me thrown off contracts because someone else posted something here that they disagreed with. Something that I'd never even seen!

Oh, and in case you're wondering why the portfolio sits on the same domain as the boards, it was all was down to an accident when the boards were being installed. They were supposed to go on urban75.org. Doh!

*apologies to all for the derail, but I was asked.


----------



## girasol (Jan 29, 2010)

Full marks to Apple and iPad for providing so much material for comedy.  On that front they have been successful.

I haven't read the thread (short of time), and although the whole thing seems pointless, it will lead to something useful one day...

The feature that's really grabbing my attention is the reader, I think they're onto something (yes, I know it's been done before but eventually the perfect gadget for doing this will be created).

Imagine you don't have much space for books...  having a reader like that to read anything you ever wanted, anywhere, would be great.  Much better if it could be folded though.  and be truly affordable.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Iemanja said:


> Imagine you don't have much space for books...  having a reader like that to read anything you ever wanted, anywhere, would be great.  Much better if it could be folded though.  and be truly affordable.


I think you'd be better off with a Kindle screen than the iPad's though as it's much more like paper, and much kinder on the eyes.

The battery life is much, much better too.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> I think you'd be better off with a Kindle screen than the iPad's though as it's much more like paper, and much kinder on the eyes.
> 
> The battery life is much, much better too.



Hmm.. not when glossy, interactive magazine content comes along.


----------



## gabi (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> I think you'd be better off with a Kindle screen than the iPad's though as it's much more like paper, and much kinder on the eyes.
> 
> The battery life is much, much better too.



At the risk of sounding like a luddite, i really dont see the need for an e-reader when reading an actual physical book is a far more enjoyable experience. i dont see it catching on tbh.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

gabi said:


> At the risk of sounding like a luddite, i really dont see the need for an e-reader when reading an actual physical book is a far more enjoyable experience. i dont see it catching on tbh.



DVD's would never catch on when we already had VHS...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> One bunch of charmers went out of their way to _write to all my clients_ to try and get me thrown off contracts



Fucking hell. 
I mean, I've been here long enough to know some of the old suspects were a tad on the obsessive side of things, but that's just straight up fucking malicious. 
No matter what you think of someone, there's no excuse in the real world for that sort of shit. 

(TBH it's exactly why I'm so careful/paranoid about my web presence & bulletin boards.)


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

gabi said:


> At the risk of sounding like a luddite, i really dont see the need for an e-reader when reading an actual physical book is a far more enjoyable experience. i dont see it catching on tbh.



I already get_ several _ esubscriptions, there's lots in the fashion trade.  I love 'em.  As I need to work with them on the 'pooter, it saves me a hell of a lot of scanning in of paper.

This one comes as a dvd or printed. http://www.wear-magazine.com/

even the beardy steampunked narrowboaters world can get its paper online. 
http://www.mpldigital.com/mortons-media/towpath-talk


So it would catch on with me, infact it already has.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Fucking hell.
> I mean, I've been here long enough to know some of the old suspects were a tad on the obsessive side of things, but that's just straight up fucking malicious.
> No matter what you think of someone, there's no excuse in the real world for that sort of shit.
> 
> (TBH it's exactly why I'm so careful/paranoid about my web presence & bulletin boards.)



offtopic/ I'm removing my cv from my website today coz it keeps popping up on Craigslist all over the world, pretending to be someone elses.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Hmm.. not when glossy, interactive magazine content comes along.


You're just described a website, no? 

I'm talking about _books_, full of words, and it's definitely easier to read them on e-Ink than a backlit LCD screen.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> You're just described a website, no?
> 
> I'm talking about _books_, full of words, and it's definitely easier to read them on e-Ink than a backlit screen.



No, big publishing houses like Future Publishing don't put a lot of content on their websites... they'd lose too much revenue.

So if they made E-Versions of their magazines and cover CD's/DVD's and put them out over iTunes.. they keep the revenue stream.

I'm talking about what sort of content I think/hope will be available on the iPad.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

stowpirate said:


> What is the upgrade path on the iPad? Can you replace the default OS with Windows, Linux or something more exotic or is the device locked. If so it is an expensive gadget to be sitting gathering dust when it becomes obsolete in a  years time? I can stomach an inexpensive gadget like a bog standard mobile being landfill fodder within a couple of years but not something as expensive as this.



If I could have my own way, I'd have it so you could muck about with the OS too, and I'd want Illustrator, photoshop and a stylus.  (Because finger painting is hard to take srsly in a meeting).  I'd get rid of itunes.  SD card reader, usb connectivity, a proper sim card in a normal size. I can appreciate it's more of a fun toy to use at home, but I was hoping we'd get something that was more like my wants list. Please someone make one.  Last time I went to the airport and was searched, they pissed themselves at the amount of tech junk I was schlepping around.  A good tablet would cut that down a bit.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Regardless of who makes the reading device, I'd still rather read a magazine on paper. It's still the best format for reading!


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Regardless of who makes the reading device, I'd still rather read a magazine on paper. It's still the best format for reading!



it is on a bus in Tottenham - for reasons of personal safety!


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Regardless of who makes the reading device, I'd still rather read a magazine on paper. It's still the best format for reading!



My problem with that is you either have them sitting around for ages after or just end up wastefully binning them. I like the idea of having subscriptions electronically delivered and stored electronically.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> My problem with that is you either have them sitting around for ages after or just end up wastefully binning them. I like the idea of having subscriptions electronically delivered and stored electronically.


I like that as well - that's why I got so excited by the Kindle's daily newspaper delivery - and there's no reason why we can't mix and match them.

But given the choice between sitting in a café flicking through a magazine or sitting with an expensive, one-screen-at-a-time device with a limited battery life, I'd take the magazine every time.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> My problem with that is you either have them sitting around for ages after or just end up wastefully binning them. I like the idea of having subscriptions electronically delivered and stored electronically.



Exactly.  Also much easier to search for past articles.


----------



## Tricky Mickey (Jan 29, 2010)

I hate apple hype, but reckon this is a very interesting moment that we'll look back on in years to come. 

I was watching a few films last night on my laptop - I don't have a TV. And I thought, imagine if I could uncouple the screen from this Macbook and watch films on just the screen, in my lap. It'd be ace. 

At first I thought - ah look, the iPad's just a big iPhone. It's shit. 

Then after a bit I thought, "It's gonna be good that. It's a big iPhone". 

In a few years, i reckon we'll laugh at the concept of not having a tactile interface with our data. 

The iPad - it's a PUI (physical), not a GUI and it might just be the new mouse.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Interesting piece: 



> Hey, remember back when Steve Jobs said "people  don't read anymore" when discussing why the Kindle would be a failure?  Heh, funny story: turns out Apple just released a device called the  iPad and, at  its unveiling, spent an awful lot of time showing off what a great  reader it is. However, when comparing it to Kindle (as  we did here) you have to think about that battery life figure: 10  hours vs. _seven days_.
> 
> When Walt Mossberg caught Jobs after the  unveiling for a little gonzo-style interview he asked about this, and  Jobs said "you're not going to read for 10 hours...you just end up  pluggin' it in." So, Steve now concedes that people _do_ read,  but apparently they don't do it for long without coming close to a power  receptacle. When asked about price differentials between books on the  devices, rumored to be as much as $5  more than on Kindle, Jobs somewhat reluctantly states that  "publishers are actually withholding books from Amazon because they're  not happy," and that "the prices will be the same" -- but doesn't  indicate whether Amazon's prices will be going up or that rumored $14.99  price point is going down. It's all in the video after the break,  including plenty of face time with Walt.



http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/29/steve-jobs-compares-ipad-battery-life-to-kindles-youre-not-g/


----------



## Structaural (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I note however, you still can't bring yourself to comment on the obvious logic that those involved in design and marketing tend to value good design and brand association, both qualities that Apple do well in. See Teuchter's comment about office chairs earlier.
> 
> It's this evasion and obvious misrepresentation which gets my goat.



Just my two cent derail:

The main reason the Mac rules in design/production scenarios in most cases is not entirely down to aesthetics. A lot of the big softwares like Quark and Photoshop (and a few others were around then), freehand and illustrator came out in 1988 -1990. They didn't hit the PC platform until around 1992 and no-one used them on PCs then, they were just shit. Pagemaker came out in 1985. System 6-7 was bad by todays standards but nowhere near as bad as window 3.0. Macs were just better for graphics, they had ATM (smooth type) in 1990 and Quickdraw, which was just the nuts at the time. 24-bit was almost the norm, while PCs were struggling along with 256 colour dithered screens mostly.
The PC didn't even get inroads until Win2000 was released. The PC was just a poor choice to do professional graphical work on in the early-mid 90s. Things are pretty equal now but certainly not the case then. Nothing compared to my work Quadra 840av back in '93  There wasn't a decent version of illustrator for the PC until 1997 (though Corel draw wasn't too bad then) and Freehand was never made for PCs. Freehand was very popular with designers (not so much with us production guys). Pagemaker was the ipso facto standard on PCs generally and that wasn't a patch on Quark Xpress.

I started on a Dicomed Imaginator in 1987 with 128k memory, a vector engine and 128k file size on 5" disks, these cost over 100k each!
Within a year the whole company had switched to Macs running illustrator 88. My first Mac was a IIcx with a 24-bit Radius card in 1989, moving on the IIfx later, these pissed on anything in the PC world - unless you decided to buy Sun system PC-based proprietary systems costing upward of 30-50 grand.

I'm not a designer, I work in Production (Heavyweight Artworker and Production Manager) in the music, branding, advertising and packaging industries and in 20 years and working in over 150 different companies you just don't see PCs in that environment (or the designers environment if there's a production dept.) except as EFI rips and Server farms. They just haven't been powerful enough for production work.
These days it's all 4, 8-core macs with 32-64GB of RAM and iMacs for the designers. 
I only know one production dept that uses PCs and that's Phillips in Amsterdam and with their aesthetic it seems fitting somehow.

So that's the real reason I think, people are used to them, have used them for 25 years and are not going to change now. Newer firms with younger people probably aren't so bothered, but most graphic production people I know you would have to prise their mac from their cold dead hands. 

Considering the amount of profit bosses generally make from the work done on these machines, being tight about the tools people want to use when the price differential is so slight, is just typical really.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Freehand was never made for PCs.



Yes it was, I had a copy. It was shite.


----------



## Tricky Mickey (Jan 29, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Just my two cent derail:
> 
> The main reason the Mac rules in design/production scenarios in most cases is not entirely down to aesthetics. A lot of the big softwares like Quark and Photoshop (and a few others were around then), freehand and illustrator came out in 1988 -1990. They didn't hit the PC platform until around 1992 and no-one used them on PCs then, they were just shit. Pagemaker came out in 1985. System 6-7 was bad by todays standards but nowhere near as bad as window 3.0. Macs were just better for graphics, they had ATM (smooth type) in 1990 and Quickdraw, which was just the nuts at the time. 24-bit was almost the norm, while PCs were struggling along with 256 colour dithered screens mostly.
> The PC didn't even get inroads until Win2000 was released. The PC was just a poor choice to do professional graphical work on in the early-mid 90s. Things are pretty equal now but certainly not the case then.



Top history, chimes with loads of my on experiences, too.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

Hate to point this out Structural, but that did get mentioned earlier in the thread.

Anyway, let's avoid more derails. I will just say that it's hard not to react when someone wades in repeatedly dismissing other opinions as 'shit' or 'bullshit' and then misrepresenting what they say, replacing it with altogether dafter and more manipulative logic.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Yes it was, I had a copy. It was shite.



 oh they did, my mistake.


----------



## mack (Jan 29, 2010)

Tricky Mickey said:


> I was watching a few films last night on my laptop - I don't have a TV. And I thought, imagine if I could uncouple the screen from this Macbook and watch films on just the screen, in my lap. It'd be ace.



So you would want to sit like this for two hours?







Yeah.. no thanks.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Hate to point this out Structural, but that did get mentioned earlier in the thread.



I know, I just thought I'd expand on it a bit (or go on about it for a while


----------



## stowpirate (Jan 29, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I think Apple are going to make this device for over 14 year olds, it looks like you're out of luck kiddo.



So it is aimed at the 15 to the twenty something Gadget show market


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

And I avoided the detail for fear of derail. Hey ho


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

15 to 20 somethings? Yeah, that's just the market Apple choose to push their premium electronics at. There's no potential upside of tablets at all

Honestly.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

I find myself in that position all the tie with my ipod touch, and I find the small screen annoying sometimes


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Hate to point this out Structural, but that did get mentioned earlier in the thread.
> 
> Anyway, let's avoid more derails. I will just say that it's hard not to react when someone wades in repeatedly dismissing other opinions as 'shit' or 'bullshit' and then misrepresenting what they say, replacing it with altogether dafter and more manipulative logic.


Give it a rest. Please.



mack said:


> So you would want to sit like this for two hours?
> 
> Yeah.. no thanks.


It's not that comfy to hold, is it? 

No doubt there'll be a load of third party stands'n'stuff coming out, but it's going to be pretty heavy to hold for long periods and become as awkward to read as a heavy book, so I wouldn't fancy trying to read one on a packed tube


----------



## Structaural (Jan 29, 2010)

I made an omelette today and ate it trying to read a new hardback, man I could have done with an iPad for those 5 minutes  In the end I had to cut up my omelette and eat it with one hand while holding open the book. Terrible.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

Happy to. Maybe you can ponder the approach of your posts in future and consider why folks tend to react the way they do. It may even help many a thread going this way, or lessen the anti-apple bias allegations.

I'm a bit indifferent about the weight aspect fwiw - I'm obviously reading too many big tomes as a rule - but like you it's hard to see anything replacing the legibility and simplicity of print on paper. There again folks have been quick to accept lower quality standards for everything digital, as long as the conveninence and cost are there.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

mack said:


> So you would want to sit like this for two hours?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> but like you it's hard to see anything replacing the legibility and simplicity of print on paper. There again folks have been quick to accept lower quality standards for everything digital, as long as the conveninence and cost are there.



I've sat in front of a computer for about 12 hours a day for the last 10 years, I have no problem getting used to reading off a screen.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 29, 2010)

I like the cover thingy a lot.


----------



## mack (Jan 29, 2010)

@Kanda

so a screen tilted with a keyboard in front of it - now where have I seen that before.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

mack said:


> @Kanda
> 
> so a screen tilted with a keyboard in front of it - now where have I seen that before.



Probably on a laptop... but you don't carry the iPad keyboard with you do you? Not sure I get what point you're trying to make...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I like the cover thingy a lot.



Me too. 
It's a very nice looking package wrapped in that.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

I bet one of the first 3rd party peripherals will be a jacket with built-in bluetooth keyboard


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I bet one of the first 3rd party peripherals will be a jacket with built-in bluetooth keyboard


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm much the same fwiw, but it's nice to take your eyes off the screen and concentrate on paper once in a while.,

Equally that's why I don't really believe people don't care about the advantage the Kindle's screen could potentially have for reading. They see a big colour ipad/iphone and it just seems more inviting than a more mono kindle or ereader.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


>


and a stylus that slots in the spine, you can already get 3rd party stylus for the iphone can you not?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'm much the same fwiw, but it's nice to take your eyes off the screen and concentrate on paper once in a while.,
> 
> Equally that's why I don't really believe people don't care about the advantage the Kindle's screen could potentially have for reading. They see a big colour ipad/iphone and it just seems more inviting than a more mono kindle or ereader.



It's not about 'inviting' though, it's about not having bleedy eyes after getting stuck into a good book.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's not about 'inviting' though, it's about not having bleedy eyes after getting stuck into a good book.



But I sit and stare at a screen reading all day every day and don't get bleedy eyes.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

I haven't had 'bleedy eyes' after spending many hours of the day staring at worse monitors than's likely to be in the ipad.

The kindle probably is marginally better for reading, but it's not as good as a book. And I'm guessing that most will quickly be won over to the familiarity and versatility of a colour screen.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I haven't had 'bleedy eyes' after spending many hours of the day staring at worse monitors than's likely to be in the ipad.



Apologies, I thought it obvious that 'bleedy' was an exaggeration for effect.

(Also, I meant to write 'bleeding')


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 29, 2010)

I like that cover and the keyboard.... makes the form factor infinitely more tempting. Shame about the locked down OS and all the other issues.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> The kindle probably is marginally better for reading, but it's not as good as a book. And I'm guessing that most will quickly be won over to the familiarity and versatility of a colour screen.


It's *a lot* better than a LCD screen actually, and as close to print as you're likely to get.

Have you ever used one? It's pretty impressive (although the Kindle's ergonomics are awful).


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

To be fair, I rarely even get headaches from staring at a crappy IBM monitors all day. And I'm an unbalanced lazy eyed cyclops type of person

I just think the Kindle's screen technology looks a bit archaic to the techno-uninterested. Colour was always the way for Apple to go and they're likely to improve the technology in future.

Bleedy was better than bleeding btw.


----------



## zenie (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> But I sit and stare at a screen reading all day every day and don't get bleedy eyes.


 
Don't you EVER get eye strain, you do wear glasses so maybe that helps a bit? But on a computer you're having regular breaks, whereas with a book it's constant iyswim? 

I know we have to take breaks because of the eye strain thing. 

The black stand/case is sexy as fuck.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

I've briefly looked at the Kindle but I can't say it rocked my world. It's a proficient device, but badly designed and I'll admit to making the mental comparison to a book and quickly discounting.

I'm sure the technology is better for reading than LCD, but the majority of folks don't seem to struggle with LCDs and going mono seems a strangely retrograde step.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

Nah, never get eye strain. Have sat in front of screens for the best part of 20 years.

I've used an e-reader and it made me drowsy, just like books do


----------



## Tricky Mickey (Jan 29, 2010)

I tend to watch films/iPlayer lying down with the laptop on a speaker stand or coffee table at head height - I reckon you could sit with the iPad in your lap easily enough, or drop it in that boss case. Or one of the several hundred versions that are being knocked out in china as we speak. 

I think the main point to recognise here is that Apple does touchscreen better than anyone. And that's the future of human-digital interfaces, no doubt. We'll piss our sides at the mouse one day. 

They should drop this iShit branding though.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/29...images-show-properly-displayed-flash-content/

Interesting...


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

Tricky Mickey said:


> We'll piss our sides at the mouse one day.



Quoted for great truth.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'm sure the technology is better for reading than LCD, but the majority of folks don't seem to struggle with LCDs and going mono seems a strangely retrograde step.


Most books and textbooks are in mono and for some people I'd imagine a 30x battery life is a worthwhile trade off for pretty colour screens.

The Kindle failed to nail it with its dreadful ergonomics and the iPad offers its own set of hefty compromises, but I'm still hopeful that something better will come along soon. Colour eInk is already being trialled so maybe there'll be some movement there soon.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 29, 2010)

Why are there no black borders on that image of Star Trek I keep seeing.

Fuck pan & scan. I ditched that about 8 years ago.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Perhaps not as pretty, but the Archos 9 looks interesting. 







Microsoft Windows 7, 9" screen, 80 to 160GB hard drive options, WiFi 802.11b/g connection, Bluetooth 2.1, 16mm thin, 620g, dual digital TV tunes + recording... and an early hands was positive. 

No idea about battery life though. 

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...ones/hands-on-archos-9-pctablet-review-613148


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

Derail.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 29, 2010)

Yeah, not sure how non computer people will get one without a keyboard, tbh...


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

Windows 7 does not have an interface suited for touchscreen

Anyway, iPad.

Thought: can you get home media server software that will transcode on the fly to an iphone/pod/pad-friendly format?


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Perhaps not as pretty, but the Archos 9....





Sorry, but design wise, it looks fucking amature next to the iPad.
I wasn't blown away by the iPad's looks - to used to seeing an iPhone every day I guess - but this brings it home again. They really do have the Midas touch in Ive.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Sorry, but design wise, it looks fucking amature next to the iPad.
> I wasn't blown away by the iPad's looks - to used to seeing an iPhone every day I guess - but this brings it home again. They really do have the Midas touch in Ive.


There's no denying that Apple's design is fantastic, although there has been some really good stuff on other platforms too. 

I won't mention any here though for fear of being accused of derailing the thread.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Windows 7 does not have an interface suited for touchscreen
> 
> Anyway, iPad.
> 
> Thought: can you get home media server software that will transcode on the fly to an iphone/pod/pad-friendly format?



Yeah AirVideo will do it - I use quite a lot to watch downloads in the garden.

link


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> I won't mention any here though for fear of being accused of derailing the thread.



I was only joking mate 

Archos is actually worthy of a thread though.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Yeah AirVideo will do it - I use quite a lot to watch downloads in the garden.
> 
> link


Looks good. How much is the client app, and how well does it work?


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 29, 2010)

TBH, having looked at the specs, aside from the UI and doubtlessly better touchscreen, it doesn't really advance on the HP tablet I've had for aaages. Probably as-shite performance too...at least the HP can multitask...and it comes with a keyboard you can detach from the main body of the tablet, and a docking station with a DVD or CD drive, plus additional network connectivity, 4 USB ports etc...


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

How much does it weigh Kyser?


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## Crispy (Jan 29, 2010)

They shouldn't be compared. The HP is a general-purpose computer, shoehorned into touchscreen box. The ipad is a piece of consumer electronics, designed for touchscreen.


----------



## c01642 (Jan 29, 2010)

The iPhone gives it a big thumbs up.

http://gizmodo.com/5459050/a-message-about-the-apple-ipad-from-the-iphone?autoplay=true


----------



## Structaural (Jan 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Looks good. How much is the client app, and how well does it work?



It works very well, I get 1 in 20 files that don't work in realtime - but will convert in the background fine. 720p mkvs work mostly too. CPU usage when converting is about 97% on all cores so it's pretty well written.
I think it was about 2 quid - check that link.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Good interview here with The Guardian's online editor: 



> TechRadar: What are the Guardian's first impressions of the Apple iPad?
> 
> Janine Gibson: I think, like everybody, that it doesn't live up to the massive expectations. We expected something more multi-functional from them, as that is what we have come to expect from Apple since the iPhone.
> 
> ...


Spot on, I reckon.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jan 29, 2010)

Why has no one else commented on how this will effect premium e-readers?

The Que was supposed to be $800. That's not going to work anymore.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Good interview here with The Guardian's online editor:
> 
> Spot on, I reckon.



I'd definitely agree with this one:



> JG: Personally, I'm a bit sceptical that any one device at this point could be a game-changer.



As a first stab, it's a more compelling, intuitive tablet to most than any. That's a low bar to set admittedly


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> How much does it weigh Kyser?



_Sans_ keyboard, 1.4kg, 2.3cm thick. Visible screen size is 26.5cm on the diagonal. The model I've got doesn't have wifi, but does have bluetooth (in fairness, it was 'borrowed' from a previous employer too, and worked well as a download point for most of the time I had it )

Given that it's about 3 years old it's not too bad...and Crispy, point taken re: comparison, but that puts the iPad in even more of a 'doesn't know what it is' place.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Windows 7 does not have an interface suited for touchscreen
> 
> Anyway, iPad.
> 
> Thought: can you get home media server software that will transcode on the fly to an iphone/pod/pad-friendly format?



Thats not true, its not something that can be installed and is only availlable to OEM's but W7 has a reasonably nice multi touch interface.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Crispy, point taken re: comparison, but that puts the iPad in even more of a 'doesn't know what it is' place.



Yes it does. It's a consumer media device. It's not trying to be a laptop or netbook or e-reader.... 

It's a device that will live or die by the content provided for it from the app store, from iBooks, from iTunes etc etc


----------



## tarannau (Jan 29, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Why has no one else commented on how this will effect premium e-readers?
> 
> The Que was supposed to be $800. That's not going to work anymore.



To be honest I've never even considered a premium e-reader or investigated price. That at least puts pricing in a more palatable light.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 29, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Why has no one else commented on how this will effect premium e-readers?
> 
> The Que was supposed to be $800. That's not going to work anymore.



At $800 it was never going to be anything other than a bit part.  The technology it is interesting, it can be flexible. In the future it may make something more interesting than the Que.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 29, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Yes it does. It's a consumer media device. It's not trying to be a laptop or netbook or e-reader....
> 
> It's a device that will live or die by the content provided for it from the app store, from iBooks, from iTunes etc etc



Absolutely, content is king for this device. If people (both developers and users) start buying into the content then it'll be a huge success.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 29, 2010)

THis made me chuckle







a theme....  quite impressive given the time involved.  They must have been praying for iPad...


----------



## paolo (Jan 30, 2010)

I wonder if any of the newspaper's will do a 'free iPad' deal.

Let's take an example. The Guardian currently charges £99 per year for the full PDF style edition. Add £400 for the cost of the tablet. That's £25 a month. Maybe less depending on the retailer margin from Apple. Compared with north of £50 for the print edition at the newstand.

Obviously it's not a no-brainer purchase. You can read the web version for free, after all.

But it's interesting though, I think. There's probably other 'price masking' opportunities too. e.g. premium TV (Sky).

And of course, Carphone Warehouse will have a pay-monthly deal with zero up front cost, just like they do for netbooks.

No silver bullet here obviously, but deals like this could draw a few people in.


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2010)

Interesting piece in t'Guardian:



> Apple + iPad + Huxley = Orwellian nightmare
> 
> For the implication of an iPad-crazed world – with its millions of delighted, infatuated users – is that a single US company renowned for control-freakery will have become the gatekeeper to the online world. The iPad – like the iPhone – is a closed, tightly controlled device: nothing gets on to it that has not been expressly approved by Apple. We will have arrived at an Orwellian end by Huxleian means. And be foolish enough to think that we've attained nirvana.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jan/31/ipad-review-comments-naughton


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 31, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Interesting piece in t'Guardian:



Link?


----------



## ovaltina (Jan 31, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I wonder if any of the newspaper's will do a 'free iPad' deal.



Several years ago, a friend who worked at a national newspaper told me they were looking at a scroll-type device that would download content automatically every day, and would be subsidised by newspapers in the same way satellite dishes were subsidised during the 80s, with punters eventually paying the money back as they buy in content.

It would have advantages over newspapers in that, say you're reading a story about Britney or whatever, if you're interested you can click the picture and whoosh - you're given a list of related articles about her, click again and zap - here's a wikipedia piece - and here's stuff about her next concert, and here's where to buy tickets, etc etc.

It may be that the scroll never worked but devices like the Ipad and MS Courier could fill the gap.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Interesting piece in t'Guardian:



Yet another low on substance, high on melodrama piece you've found there - well done.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Feb 1, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> The Guardian currently charges £99 per year for the full PDF style edition. Add £400 for the cost of the tablet. That's £25 a month. Maybe less depending on the retailer margin from Apple. Compared with north of £50 for the print edition at the newstand.


I think they should be charging alot less than £99 a year if they want the masses to cough up.  Most of the online subscriptions I get (weekly trade press from the US) are  $50-$100 a year, with the print edition being $300-$500 a year. Then theres the narrowboat one I think I linked to, which is free (advertising subscribed).


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Yet another low on substance, high on melodrama piece you've found there - well done.


Did you bother to read it? Which specific points do you disagree with?

Or are you going for the 'fingers in your ear' approach?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Link!


----------



## tarannau (Feb 1, 2010)

Oh come on Ed, that piece is near hysterical. When something virtually signs off suggesting that:



> The iPad – like the iPhone – is a closed, tightly controlled device: nothing gets on to it that has not been expressly approved by Apple



And brings in the Huxley/Orwell associations you just want to get an iphone and show the writer how to access the web freelly. The fact that the App Store is controlled doesn't stop the internet being available

We'll be having iphone-jailbreakers portrayed as rebellious citizens resisting thoughtcrime next. TBH everytime I see a writer forcing yet another Orwell/Huxley angle on a story I want to shudder - 90% of them are simply asinine alarmist laziness rather than a telling insight into the future.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

tarannau said:


> And brings in the Huxley/Orwell associations you just want to get an iphone and show how to access the web freel. The fact that the App Store is conrrolled doesn't stop the internet being available


If the iPad achieves the same kind of overwhelming success as the iPod, then I believe it could be a worrying prospect to have one corporation in sole control of what programs and apps can be used on that machine. No programs that compete with their own allowed. No competition allowed. Apps rejected because they contain swear words, or offer functionality that Apple doesn't like.

Apple has already refused apps on the basis of _moral_ grounds. Do you agree with that? Do you think that's the direction technology should be moving?

Or do you think punters should just accept corporate censorship because the iPad is shiny and cute?


Kid_Eternity said:


> Link!


Eh? It's in the article.


----------



## tarannau (Feb 1, 2010)

You have the option to jailbreak or simply buy another phone. 

I can see the concern, but hysterical comparisons to Orwellian visions just seem utterly daft and frankly unbalanced. You have a massive choice of apps to choose from still, the freely available internet and the chance to jailbreak your device should you choose. It's hardly 1999, is it?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

It's a concern, but it wouldn't stop me buying one

I'm liking the idea more and more now, and can see myself buying the 2nd version


----------



## tarannau (Feb 1, 2010)

I'd put in down as a very minor concern fwiw too. But given that (Herr) Jobs only has so long left to give and the historical ebb and flow of computing dynasties I really doubt that there's much to worry about. It's certainly not worth getting your knickers into yet another tired Orwellian twist about anyway.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

Great Scott! - here's a review by someone _who actually hand their hands on the bastard_

linky


----------



## magneze (Feb 1, 2010)

tarannau said:


> You have the option to jailbreak or simply buy another phone.
> 
> I can see the concern, but hysterical comparisons to Orwellian visions just seem utterly daft and frankly unbalanced. You have a massive choice of apps to choose from still, the freely available internet and the chance to jailbreak your device should you choose. It's hardly 1999, is it?


Jailbreaking is only an option for the tech-savvy. Most users will not do it IMHO.


----------



## gabi (Feb 1, 2010)

What planet is steve jobs living on? He's fucking lost it...

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010...-is-bullshit-adobe-is-lazy-apples-steve-jobs/

Apparently nobody will be using flash in the near future (because he says so).. Ha. yeh right. 



> On Google: We did not enter the search business, Jobs said. They entered the phone business. Make no mistake they want to kill the iPhone. We won’t let them, he says. Someone else asks something on a different topic, but there’s no getting Jobs off this rant. I want to go back to that other question first and say one more thing, he says. This don’t be evil  mantra: “It’s bullshit.” Audience roars.
> 
> About Adobe: They are lazy, Jobs says. They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it. They don’t do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

tarannau said:


> You have the option to jailbreak or simply buy another phone.


What percentage of regular users do you think will be savvy enough to jailbreak the iPad and what percentage will simply accept whatever terms Apple foists on them? For the vast majority of users, Apple will be in _sole control_ of what's allowed to be installed on their machines, and that kind of corporate power worries me, and I think it's a topic worthy of some discussion.

If getting tech-dazzled people to listen to the argument in the first place involves authors employing hyperbolic arguments, more power to their elbows, I say. It _is_ important, and if Apple continue to grow it become a very important issue.


----------



## tarannau (Feb 1, 2010)

Most users don't want to break their iphone, nor see any need to. The ones who want to and are motivated to jailbreak can, without much problem or hinderance from Apple it seems so far. It really doesn't seem that huge a factor atm., no matter how often a tiny majority of users waffle on.

Principled stands are one
thing, but when they seem based on slightly hysterical logic and against the lessons of computing history then I'll reserve the right to look blissfully unbothered. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, and even I'm not enough of an Apple-Zealot to see them ever being the only game in town.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 1, 2010)

I think prefer the book-like appearance of the Microsoft Courier. I'd like to see some demos in action and see if its more functional than an ipad.


----------



## gabi (Feb 1, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> I think prefer the book-like appearance of the Microsoft Courier. I'd like to see some demos in action and see if its more functional than an ipad.



http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet

Looks pretty cool on the vid on that link. Looks totally different to anything out there. dunno about naming it after one of the worst typefaces in history though.


----------



## tarannau (Feb 1, 2010)

I think the Courier looks great, but the more I think about it, the less compelling and the more issues there potentially are with the thing. 

Thw two screen form factor carries a host of drawbacks. Splitting the UI with a touch interface could lead to some weird inconsistencies and compromises. And in general I'm not convinced MS has the ability to focus in on a compelling UI and approach for the Courier.  

Maybe they'll blow our socks off, but I get the feeling the courier may take off more slowly than the fantastic demo would suggest.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Great Scott! - here's a review by someone _who actually hand their hands on the bastard_
> 
> linky


Good article. This is the key point, IMO



> I like my netbook a lot. Most of my admiration for it comes from the knowledge of what I can accomplish with it despite its many limitations. “Wow, this keyboard and screen are useful ... they’re not as big as I’d like, but what would you expect from a machine this small?”; “This webpage loaded plenty quick ... of course, it’s a lot slower than what I’d get on a real notebook, but what do you expect for $300?” ... that sort of thing. Most of my admiration for the iPad comes from the fact that I left that demo room with absolutely no complaints about the speed, comfort, or simplicity of my user experience.


----------



## gabi (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Good article. This is the key point, IMO



The key point is you can't watch 75% of web video content on it. Which is a showstopper imo.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

that'll change by the time this thing is mass-market


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> What percentage of regular users do you think will be savvy enough to jailbreak the iPad and what percentage will simply accept whatever terms Apple foists on them? For the vast majority of users, Apple will be in _sole control_ of what's allowed to be installed on their machines, and that kind of corporate power worries me, and I think it's a topic worthy of some discussion.
> 
> If getting tech-dazzled people to listen to the argument in the first place involves authors employing hyperbolic arguments, more power to their elbows, I say. It _is_ important, and if Apple continue to grow it become a very important issue.



Apple are not cut throat enough when it comes to the app store afaic, they need to be even _more_ ruthless in purging out some of that crap.

So, I'm interested - can you give me a list of say 5 applications that are worthy of our attention that Apple refused?


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Apple are not cut throat enough when it comes to the app store afaic, they need to be even _more_ ruthless in purging out some of that crap.
> 
> So, I'm interested - can you give me a list of say 5 applications that are worthy of our attention that Apple refused?


Google Voice and a ton of  Google Voice telephony services.  The Opera browser. Any browser in fact. And so on. 

And the concerns are growing:





> "It's chilling," said Brewster Kahle, a technology veteran and director of the Internet Archive. "We may be seeing the iPhone-ification of the Macintosh."
> 
> The concerns come because – contrary to the predictions of many pundits – the iPad is more like a scaled-up version of the iPhone than a scaled-down laptop computer. That means it can only run one program at a time, and even then those applications must be approved by Apple before they can be loaded on to the machine. This is the opposite of the traditional model used by the computer industry, where the makers of operating systems have little or no control over what software their users buy or download.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> If the iPad achieves the same kind of overwhelming success as the iPod, then I believe it could be a worrying prospect to have one corporation in sole control of what programs and apps can be used on that machine. No programs that compete with their own allowed. No competition allowed. Apps rejected because they contain swear words, or offer functionality that Apple doesn't like.
> 
> Apple has already refused apps on the basis of _moral_ grounds. Do you agree with that? Do you think that's the direction technology should be moving?
> 
> ...



Ah it wasn't showing while I was viewing via Tapatalk...


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Adobe are still miffed:



> But I want to be very clear. My concern isn't just about Flash on the iPad. It's about a disturbing trend where Apple is starting to inhibit broad categories of innovation on their platforms. On the iPad, it looks like developers won't be able to write applications in Java, .net, Python, Ruby, Perl, or any number of other languages (including Flash). And users won't be able to install Firefox, Opera,IE, or any third party browser. There are countless other examples of applications and technologies that Apple doesn't allow. Why? Apple won't say.
> 
> And innovation isn't just about technology, it's also about business models. Developers on this new platform aren't able to innovate there either. At best, developers targeting the iPad are subject to a 30% Apple Tax in the App Store. And at worst, developers invest time and money building a product that can never be brought to market, because the only channel is one that is centrally controlled and entirely opaque. In every case, Apple is a gatekeeper on how developers are able to deliver content to their consumers.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Feb 1, 2010)

What about all the claims that Flash is buggy as fuck?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

> There are countless other examples of applications and technologies that Apple doesn't allow. Why? Apple won't say.



The reasons are perfectly clear, IMO. They are "protect the user" and "protect Apple's control of the core experience"

The iphone is a device, not a general purpose computer. Nobody complains about not being able to install custom codecs on their DVD player, or custom wash cycles on their washing machine. Keeping the device simple and coherent is what makes the iphone good. If it weren't for the profit and market expansion that apps bring, I think Apple would prefer to keep the device entirely closed to developers.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> What about all the claims that Flash is buggy as fuck?


I can't say that chimes with my experience and Adobe have been quick to claim it works just fine on other mobile platforms:



> "Flash won't perform well on the iPad (iPhone)" -- It's fast enough  for other devices that have similar chips (and even less powerful chips)  built on the ARM architecture.  The Palm Pre, Google Nexus One,  Motorola Droid, and other devices all  run beta versions of Flash Player 10.1 beautifully.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

Flash is buggy as fuck on OSX - responsible for the majority of crash reports from Safari apparently. Opinions differ on whether this is due to adobe's incompetence or apple's non-cooperation.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> I can't say that chimes with my experience and Adobe have been quick to claim it works just fine on other mobile platforms:



You're not a Mac user... 

Numerous reviews I have read about Flash on the Mac have slated it, one reviewer blocked all Flash content and didn't have any crashes or have to hard reset his PC any more...


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Numerous reviews I have read about Flash on the Mac have slated it, one reviewer blocked all Flash content and didn't have any crashes or have to hard reset his PC any more...


That's one reviewer. 

I can't say I've ever encountered issues looking at Flash content whenever I've used a Mac (last time was on Saturday, in case you're wondering), and I can't say I've seen huge amounts of bad press from consumers all complaining about it either.


----------



## gabi (Feb 1, 2010)

Flash runs fine for me on my macs at home and work


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Opinions differ on whether this is due to adobe's incompetence or apple's non-cooperation.



I know which one I'd put my money on.


Apples approach sucks, end of, IMO.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

gabi said:


> Flash runs fine for me on my macs at home and work


It's ok, but fullscreen performance only just got good, and have you seen how it canes the processor? Flash on windows can access the gfx card for decoding acceleration. Apple only allow that through the Quicktime API (windows allows direct access to the video card from browser plugins)


----------



## tarannau (Feb 1, 2010)

Flash is shit on PPC macs generally, terrible compared to similar era PCs. It's also as buggy as it really gets even on OSX really, even on Intel chips.


----------



## elbows (Feb 1, 2010)

As I mentioned earlier, flash performance on mac has not been great but the beta they released some months ago did finally give me flash video playback without silly cpu use.

The downsides to Apples strategy are easy to see, there are disturbing aspects which could have bad implications for the future.

The problem is that for all the barriers Apple put up, they are lowering one very important barrier, the ease of use of their new uncomputers. My dad is unlikely to go all over the place buying apps, but the app store works for him. I really didnt want to see another gatekeeper for mobile devices, but Apple have done it in a way that is quite compelling for many. There is an upside, even for many developers, and unless Apple totally lose the plot & their brand goes toxic, I dont know what will stop this phenomenon.

There are also big problems putting the energy of those who are vocal about computer freedoms to good use. Computer hardware & most important web services are controlled by corporations, whose business strategies could at any time call for the curbing of certain freedoms, no matter what tune they whistle today. Its not like I feel I should trust Google or Adobe more than Apple. Plus for all the waffle about openness = innovation, Apple have already shown that this isnt a golden rule, and I havent seen the open software world catching up as quickly as even a cynic like me expected them to - they have not learnt enough from the iphone. Plus I dont know what the ratios are but for every developer who is passionate about the open stuff, there are those that arent and are just getting paid to do what some corp wants, or are just getting on with using the development tools, languages, frameworks & platforms that they are already trained to use.

All I can really be greatful for is that so far Apple have not ruined the world of web standards, but have in fact been helping in this regard. Ive waffled on about h264 and html5 and flash already but some people remain in disbelief that flash could fade from the web quickly. Flash isnt going to vanish quickly, and may well stick around for IE users for quite some time, but I dont think people realise how easily a lot of the video on the internet can be freed from its flash wrapper - much of it is already h264 as the youtube html5 video beta demonstrates. Flash has already lost prominence in some of the other areas of the web that it used to dominate, as various javascript & other browser improvements have made AJAX suitable technology to use for various widgets. It will probably take ages for flash to be displaced in the casual web-game space, but overall there is a very high chance of it being significantly marginalised in the next few years. Over the years flash has always been used to do things that couldnt be done with the browsers of the day, so as browsers get better its only natural that flash becomes less needed.

Being a web developer I cannot help but like Apple for being part of the solution rather than the problem, if that ever changes when it comes to browsers on their mobile devices then I will be the first to go nutty and hate on them.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

Those of you with iphones/touches have probably used the facebook app. It's really good isn't it? Better than the website in many ways. Here's what the developer of that app has to say about the ipad:

http://joehewitt.com/post/ipad/


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Those of you with iphones/touches have probably used the facebook app. It's really good isn't it? Better than the website in many ways. Here's what the developer of that app has to say about the ipad:
> 
> http://joehewitt.com/post/ipad/


Seems strange how he's suddenly not so bothered about Apple's app approval system. 


> Facebook iPhone Dev Quits Project Over Apple Tyranny (Nov 2009)
> 
> “My decision to stop iPhone development has had everything to do with Apple’s policies.” – Joe Hewitt
> 
> ...


Nothing's changed in the 'tyrannical' process he was so upset about, has it?


----------



## Tricky Mickey (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> That's one reviewer.
> 
> I can't say I've ever encountered issues looking at Flash content whenever I've used a Mac (last time was on Saturday, in case you're wondering), and I can't say I've seen huge amounts of bad press from consumers all complaining about it either.



IME, it's truly awful. the fan kicks in on macs running Flash video content almost instantly. Flash will be dead in 2 years - or so i hope.


----------



## elbows (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Seems strange how he's suddenly not so bothered about Apple's app approval system.



I think he is still bothered by it, he refers to it in his ipad post. Being bothered by it does not mean he has to ignore the potential of the ipad though, seems he can see a bigger picture away from the apple gatekeeper issue.

From reading the following post by him, I get the idea that he is really into the web as an open platform that can overcome some of these issues whilst still enabling people to do innovative stuff on new mobile platforms.

http://joehewitt.com/post/on-middle-men/



> I do not wish to fight any mobile device makers who want to create a software ecosystem and act as the gatekeepers for that ecosystem. What I do want to fight for is the viability of the mobile web. Developers are rushing to create native apps, meanwhile letting their mobile web apps atrophy (I have certainly been guilty of that myself). Web technology is still relatively weak, and improving slowly. At this pace, what will the mobile web look like in 10 years? Will we wake up and find that the next generation of great software companies have incredibly powerful native apps, but mobile websites that are little more than "About" pages?
> 
> In short, the mobile web needs better tools, better standards, and better browsers, and it needs them fast, before the only technologies that matter are the ones controlled by the gatekeepers.



Bingo, thats where Im at too, only with far far less skill than him.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

elbows said:


> I think he is still bothered by it, he refers to it in his ipad post. Being bothered by it does not mean he has to ignore the potential of the ipad though, seems he can see a bigger picture away from the apple gatekeeper issue..


It's still strikes me as a fucking almighty u-turn and one that casts the odd doubt on th credibility of his comments.

One minute he's slagging off Apple's 'tyrannical App Store approval policies' claiming to be 'philosophically opposed to the existence of their review process' and stating how he hever wants to be part of a world, "where every developer must go through a middleman to get their software in the hands of user,"  and the next minute he's enthusiastically embracing a new device that uses the *exact same process.*

Call me cynical, but I wonder if he's got any apps coming out for the iPad?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> It's still strikes me as a fucking almighty u-turn and one that casts the odd doubt on th credibility of his comments.
> 
> One minute he's slagging off Apple's 'tyrannical App Store approval policies' claiming to be 'philosophically opposed to the existence of their review process' and stating how he hever wants to be part of a world, "where every developer must go through a middleman to get their software in the hands of user,"  and the next minute he's enthusiastically embracing a new device that uses the exact same process.
> 
> Call me cynical, but I wonder if he's got any apps coming out for the iPad?



I thought he was full of shit when he left the FB app tbh so none of this surprises me...


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## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

I think it's possible to hold both views at once.


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## fen_boy (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It's still strikes me as a fucking almighty u-turn and one that casts the odd doubt on th credibility of his comments.
> 
> One minute he's slagging off Apple's 'tyrannical App Store approval policies' claiming to be 'philosophically opposed to the existence of their review process' and stating how he hever wants to be part of a world, "where every developer must go through a middleman to get their software in the hands of user,"  and the next minute he's enthusiastically embracing a new device that uses the *exact same process.*
> 
> Call me cynical, but I wonder if he's got any apps coming out for the iPad?



I don't see anything contradictory in his posts. He embraces the OS not the approval process and his stance doesn't change on that. Though I do agree he's likely to have an iPad app in development.


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## elbows (Feb 1, 2010)

Very much so, developers are after all used to having to deal with a very imperfect base on which they can build. In the grand scheme of humanity there is a danger that, much like scientists, developers can become too used to holding their nose and creating, no matter what ends their creations may end up being used for by others, or what precedents the process sets. But I dont think we are getting into that danger zone with mobile devices or what Apple does just yet.

Its nothing new that the iphone-os devices present both opportunities and risks to developers. There are a multitude of reasons why some developers will love it, others will have mixed feelings and some will try to ignore the platform if they are wedded to development tools & platforms which arent coming to the iphone.

Users can and should be vocal about limitations Apple imposes on them if they use certain Apple hardware, but when it comes to issues of closed or open development I am going to listen far more to developers, not users, because the developers are the ones directly affected who have to get on with it and generally dont have the luxury of sticking to the philosophical and political highground. Joe Hewitt has done some great things in the past, and this matters far more to me than whether some people think he's being inconsistent. I think he has been very clear about his motivations, what excites him and what alarms him, and is attempting to tread a very sensible path by looking again at webapps as a means to negate gatekeepers. If he just sticks with native apps and doesnt do webapps stuff again then that will represent a clearer gap between what he preaches and practices, and the stuff he develops will be of less interest to me because standards-based web applications are the area I am interested in.

This is at the heart of why I will gladly hold my nose and go Apple at the moment. They are delivering interesting devices that are better in various key ways than the alternatives. I would like to develop for them using standard (but very new) browser technologies, with the anticipation that in future there will be a much broader range of devices from different manufacturers that will support the same browser technologies.  

This is one of the things that bugs be about those who claim that innovation always requires freedom. Balls. Apple are innovating in various ways, some of those ways are uncomfortably tied to closed and controlled, but that does not completely soil and make useless all the other innovations, which if they prove to fit humanity well will no doubt become part of a wider progress that is not tied to any single corporation. Open and free stuff can learn and grow from it, do it better one day, but pissing on other closed innovations because they dont follow some glorious doctrine is silly and a waste of effort.


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## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Gurt lush post


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I think it's possible to hold both views at once.



Watch out the hystericals will be burning you at the stake.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I think it's possible to hold both views at once.



Perhaps but that's not the issue, it's the way he made such a big deal about it. Guy comes across as a bit a nob.


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## Sunray (Feb 1, 2010)

Has any one looked at the iBook controls with regard to control over purchased books.  Can they be read on other devices?  No?  Can they be deleted like Amazon did on the Kindle?  No mention of that? Are Apple going to censor books they don't like like they did on the iPhone?  No mention.

Its a device headed to the Apple TV graveyard of interesting but ultimately too flawed to be of any use to anyone bar Apple clan members. Its an uninteresting product.  I've no idea why people are still talking about it? 

Roll on v4 of the iPhone OS.


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## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Watch out the hystericals will be burning you at the stake.


You seem quite determined to stir things up, don't you?


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## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Google Voice and a ton of  Google Voice telephony services.  The Opera browser. Any browser in fact. And so on.
> 
> And the concerns are growing:



So, that's 2 then... gosh (and one had already breached terms before it even started).

How many applications are currently available on the App Store?


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## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> So, that's 2 then... gosh (and one had already breached terms before it even started).


If you're going to badger people to answer your questions, it's often seen as a courtesy to follow the links provided. Thanks.


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## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> That's one reviewer.
> 
> I can't say I've ever encountered issues looking at Flash content whenever I've used a Mac (last time was on Saturday, in case you're wondering), and I can't say I've seen huge amounts of bad press from consumers all complaining about it either.



What is quite interesting is that you are quick to knock Apple for the way it handles applications submitted to the App Store, crying about a Huxley/Orwelian future blah, blah.. Yet you are quick to defend Adobe and it's software that at one time was responsible for the vast majority of web content. Funny how Apple's attempt at opening up web content technology (a result of the poor performance of Adobes software) - is completely ignored.


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## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Have fun


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## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> If you're going to badger people to answer your questions, it's often seen as a courtesy to follow the links provided. Thanks.



So a few apps that were a subset of the Google app... And of course there were a lot of politics involved here, with Apple, AT&T & Google.


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## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

A rather nice HTML5 video player here.

linky


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## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> What is quite interesting is that you are quick to knock Apple for the way it handles applications submitted to the App Store, crying about a Huxley/Orwelian future blah, blah.. Yet you are quick to defend Adobe and it's software that at one time was responsible for the vast majority of web content. Funny how Apple's attempt at opening up web content technology (a result of the poor performance of Adobes software) - is completely ignored.


Wrong on both counts, I'm afraid. I haven't been defending Adobe - merely posting up their arguments - neither have I been "crying about a Huxley/Orwelian future" - I simply posted up an interesting article and suggested that such hyperbolic arguments could be good to get a discussion going.

FYI: I've actually been ranting against Flash's proprietary technology for some time.

Oh, and your link doesn't work.


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## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2010)

I think the server is being hammered right now.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 2, 2010)

editor said:


> That's one reviewer.
> 
> I can't say I've ever encountered issues looking at Flash content whenever I've used a Mac (last time was on Saturday, in case you're wondering), and I can't say I've seen huge amounts of bad press from consumers all complaining about it either.



partly resulting from reading this thread, when I got home I had a little look into this flash/mac thing.

I have noticed for a while that when I am looking at certain websites on my mac mini, the CPU is hammering away at 100% constantly.

I have installed a flash blocker on safari. Now the CPU is down at more sensible %s and the fan can have a rest.

I will see if it crashes less often from now on too. It doesn't do it much, but it will now and again if I've got loads of windows open.


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## Crispy (Feb 2, 2010)

Interesting:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...how_slot_for_forward_facing_video_camera.html







From top to bottom: ipad replacement frame, macbook camera module, macbook glass front
Source: Mission Repair apple repairs shop


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2010)

OMG! So it might have a crappy camera in the next version, like just about every cheap netbook already out there.

It's amazing how such non-news becomes news in the Apple world of online hype.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2010)

It's just interesting, that's all. Keep your iknickers on.


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's just interesting, that's all. Keep your iknickers on.


Don't get in an iStrop with me just because I don't find your picture of a bezel iMoistening.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2010)

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii


----------



## Structaural (Feb 2, 2010)

iGrin


----------



## Ae589 (Feb 2, 2010)

I got a MacBook Pro last year, and recently got an apple tv - mainly to play an mp3 collection to multiple speakers in the house (I guess the video content will be good too).  The idea of the apple tv was to avoid having a pc just to play media, and I'm pretty pleased with it.  When the ipad comes out, the combination of the two will cover 90% of the uses we have for computers in the house.  I'm expecting seamless operation and setup (because that's why you buy Apple).  
While the tech isn't revolutionary, I think it will revolutionise home computing for non-tech audiences.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 2, 2010)

Ae589 said:


> I got a MacBook Pro last year, and recently got an apple tv - mainly to play an mp3 collection to multiple speakers in the house (I guess the video content will be good too).  The idea of the apple tv was to avoid having a pc just to play media, and I'm pretty pleased with it.  When the ipad comes out, the combination of the two will cover 90% of the uses we have for computers in the house.  I'm expecting seamless operation and setup (because that's why you buy Apple).
> While the tech isn't revolutionary, I think it will revolutionise home computing for non-tech audiences.



Wow, someone bought an Apple TV  (when I was on the lookout for a media box - the Apple tv wouldn't even support a standard PAL TV, unless it had component in; some 'tv'). 
Sorry, it's the worse thing Apple make. 720 res, small HD for the price, very little updates, won't play mkv, xvid, avi, divx, DVD isos. Only mp4 and quicktime h.264. Gets really fucking hot and the remote is too simple. Their first foray into locked-down 'appliances' and it didn't go so well... I hear it's good for playing music though, at that price it should be 

Make sure you crack it for full enjoyment, then it's a decent bit of kit: http://www.appletvhacks.net/


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## g force (Feb 2, 2010)

AppleTV - megalolz


----------



## Kanda (Feb 2, 2010)

I've got an Apple TV too.. fully hacked 

Works well, hard disk size isn't a problem, it streams from my iMac. Controlled from my iPhone


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## Ae589 (Feb 3, 2010)

Structaural said:


> won't play mkv, xvid, avi, divx, DVD isos



http://www.atvflash.com/

A big draw for me was airport extreme/airtunes.  I wanted multi room music, without multi-room cabling.  Previously I'd been looking at the Marantz ZR6001, which has more functionality but tiny speakers (and about 3 times the cost).  With ATV we can play our itunes library in the bedroom, controlled with an ipod touch/iphone/ipad.

What did you get in the end?


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## Kanda (Feb 3, 2010)

What I did.. ^^

Works very well.


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## Ae589 (Feb 3, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Works very well.



Which is why people will buy into this ecosystem.  When people can get multi-room entertainment, rental downloads, HD films, internet access, access to all mp3's through tv/stereo, they can control it all from the little slate that sits on the bookshelf that powers up is 3 seconds (or their phone), it costs them 500 quid (appletv+ipad), and most importantly, works as soon as they plug it in, you have a whole new set of customers.

I'm a long time linux/unix user (that's one reason I moved to OSX), I've just bought a nexus one; I'm no an apple fanboy, but in my opinion, the iPad is the mini cooper/fiat 500 of home computing.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 3, 2010)

Ae589 said:


> Which is why people will buy into this ecosystem.  When people can get multi-room entertainment, rental downloads, HD films, internet access, access to all mp3's through tv/stereo, they can control it all from the little slate that sits on the bookshelf that powers up is 3 seconds (or their phone), it costs them 500 quid (appletv+ipad), and most importantly, works as soon as they plug it in, you have a whole new set of customers.
> 
> I'm a long time linux/unix user (that's one reason I moved to OSX), I've just bought a nexus one; I'm no an apple fanboy, but in my opinion, the iPad is the mini cooper/fiat 500 of home computing.



I do all that on my Xbox 360 which you can get for a lot less.

edit: Actually, I can't browse the web on 360.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 3, 2010)

mwgdrwg said:


> I do all that on my Xbox 360 which you can get for a lot less.
> 
> edit: Actually, I can't browse the web on 360.



I have an Xbox 360 too.. which looks shit in the front room. Apple TV looks ok.


----------



## RaverDrew (Feb 3, 2010)

Windows 7 to Run on iPad With Citrix Receiver



> Don't like the fact that the iPad can't multitask but have, for some reason, decided you're buying the device anyway? Well, rest easy because soon enough, you can run Windows 7 on your shiny Apple tablet and multitask to your heart's content.


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## Crispy (Feb 3, 2010)

'Run On' isn't really accurate though.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 3, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Windows 7 to Run on iPad With Citrix Receiver



You can run Citrix on the iPhone already. Screen is just smaller.


----------



## gabi (Feb 3, 2010)

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010...+wired/index+(Wired:+Index+3+(Top+Stories+2))

Seems like the first version might have a webcam.. makes it slightly more appealing...


----------



## Grobelaar (Feb 3, 2010)

Have been dawding my way through the book 2666. Started it way back in October has a holiday novel. Dunno why I chose this great big lump of a novel, but every time I read it I think how much easier this would be if I had an e-reader like a Kindle or this iPad.

Trouble is I do most of my reading in the bath...

Oh well.


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## Grobelaar (Feb 3, 2010)

gabi said:


> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010...+wired/index+(Wired:+Index+3+(Top+Stories+2))
> 
> Seems like the first version might have a webcam.. makes it slightly more appealing...



I reckon there maybe a few surprises by the time it comes out. I'm sure I've read separately somewhere that iPhone OS 4.0 will have support for multi-tasking. 

I'm guessing that maybe they're not entirely sure what final features will be for that release and so are not announcing things that may or may not be supported.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 3, 2010)

If you want a windows tablet, wouldn't it just be easier - and a whole lot cheaper - to buy a windows tablet?


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## Structaural (Feb 3, 2010)

Ae589 said:


> http://www.atvflash.com/
> 
> A big draw for me was airport extreme/airtunes.  I wanted multi room music, without multi-room cabling.  Previously I'd been looking at the Marantz ZR6001, which has more functionality but tiny speakers (and about 3 times the cost).  With ATV we can play our itunes library in the bedroom, controlled with an ipod touch/iphone/ipad.
> 
> What did you get in the end?



\ramble/
At the time (about 3 and half years ago) I was only interested in video, specifically something that would play _downloaded_ material and let me put ISO of all my DVDs on it and store everything off my main Mac. A media centre without a noisy PC around it .
Wasn't much out then (and the Apple TV was even more pants back then: 160GB HD, but I came close to getting it) but I went with a tvix4100sh with a 500GB harddrive (which I've since replaced with a 1TB, it just slides out the side). Outputs SCART, composite, HDMI, optical, audio, etc - at the time I just had a normal SCART TV so the Apple TV was a no-no. And when I got my 47 plasma the tvix just carried on in HDMI mode. My entire DVD collection is on there now, slowly being replaced with downloaded and hired blu-ray versions 

It plays absolutely everything (mkv, wmv, avi, xvid, divx, h.264, x264, apples mp4 among others) up to 1080, hardware upscaling, good network access (mount NAS on it, FTP to it, two USB ports to add additional HDs or thumbdrives), wireless and ethernet.
You can also just connect it as a hardrive to your mac/pc to dump a load on it. It mounts my mac's download folder as a NAS so I can play stuff as soon as it's finished downloaded (I use sabnzbd so everything gets unpared and unrared automatically). It's quite nifty, great remote. 

There are better cheaper solutions now - the WD is only 100 quid and plays everything 1080 but lacks it's own HD and Network access.

I also play music but like you I use airtunes from my mac pro (it's always on anyway) to an airport xpress and control it with my iPhone. Or if I'm in the garden, stream to my iPhone using Simplify media... But I think there's much better and cheaper music solutions out there. The tivx plays music but the linux browser is annoying so I don't use it.

I think the next iteration of the apple TV will be the one, but your average consumer isn't going to want to have to crack their systems to play a bit of pirate material or be entirely beholden to the AppleStore. Which is why it's a poor seller at the moment.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Feb 3, 2010)

Concept vid for something Google may or may not go forward with:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/feb/02/google-tablet-computer


----------



## Structaural (Feb 3, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Windows 7 to Run on iPad With Citrix Receiver



Strange thing to want to do, OS X and I'm there....


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Here's an interesting angle:


> *Why some people are so angry about the iPad*
> 
> Some people get angry about anything to do with Apple. It's not for me to suggest they should get a life, because I am sure they feel they already have one, thank you very much.
> 
> ...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 4, 2010)

^ more noise, less signal...


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Feb 4, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Windows 7 to Run on iPad With Citrix Receiver



Ooh.  Now that could be interesting.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 4, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Ooh.  Now that could be interesting.



Did you actually read it? It's just a Citrix client. I can do that already on my iPhone...


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> ^ more noise, less signal...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 4, 2010)

ed's link said:
			
		

> It isn't perfect. Neither are real people



Genius... is it your Forte to litter Apple related threads with inane articles? if so you are doing a sterling job.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Genius... is it your Forte to litter Apple related threads with inane articles? if so you are doing a sterling job.


It's actually quite an interesting article with some sharp user comments and observations, but if such things trouble you, please put your head back in the sand and simply ignore any future links. Thank you.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2010)

It's another article about those crazy apple fans, with no content about the actual device


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## Kanda (Feb 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's another article about those crazy apple fans, with no content about the actual device



This ^^.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Feb 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Did you actually read it? It's just a Citrix client. I can do that already on my iPhone...



Actually, I didn't know there was a citrix client for the iPhone.  I'm going to experiment with it today.  It would be dead nice for me, as it means I can look at server errors via my phone if I'm out and about.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Feb 4, 2010)

editor said:


> It's actually quite an interesting article with some sharp user comments and observations, but if such things trouble you, please put your head back in the sand and simply ignore any future links. Thank you.



Ed.  Can I call you Ed?  No.  Fine.  Well it's Mr bloody Lemon to you then.

Anyway, where was I.  Ah yes.  Seriously, Ed, sorry Editor - much as I shake my head at the rather non-critical adulation that some people greet Apple releases with, you really do seem to take it to extremes.  It comes across as a bit, well, evangelical in your position.  It sort of dilutes your argument a bit.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Anyway, where was I.  Ah yes.  Seriously, Ed, sorry Editor - much as I shake my head at the rather non-critical adulation that some people greet Apple releases with, you really do seem to take it to extremes.  It comes across as a bit, well, evangelical in your position.  It sort of dilutes your argument a bit.


Have you actually _read _the article? 

How is linking to an article which presents a large variety of viewpoints about the iPad on a thread discussing the iPad be 'evangelical' in any way at all? 

This is the conclusion to the article. It seems you - and Crispy and Kanda - were too busy knee-jerking to get this far. It argues in _favour_ of the iPad.



> For all I know, some of the above may, indeed, be entirely true. But from my own distant perch up here in the mental woods, there might be a simpler explanation: the iPad is for real, ordinary people. Real, ordinary people who just want things to work simply. In fact, even more simply than they already do.
> 
> They want those things to have as few buttons as possible. They want those things to look welcoming, rather than intimidating. If those things happen to work beautifully, too, as many Apple products do, this is a pleasure beyond their most ravished imaginings.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2010)

I read the article to the end thanks


----------



## Kanda (Feb 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I read the article to the end thanks



Me too.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I read the article to the end thanks


User comments on the site: 



> "Best interpretation of the iPad concept I've read to date."
> "Damn, that was excellent."
> "One of the best posts I've read since the iPad release."
> "Yup, you hit the nail on the head."


Comments here: 


> "It's another article about those crazy apple fans, with no content about the actual device"
> "more noise, less signal..."


Oh, and I'm supposed to be an anti Apple 'evangelist' for linking to an article that...argues in favour of an Apple product.

 

No, really.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2010)

Oh, I went past 40,000 posts without realising


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 4, 2010)

editor said:


> ...argues in favour of an Apple product.



It doesn't argue, in fact it doesn't do much at all... apart from provide a load of fluff to the needle.

Here are a couple of _interesting_ articles that I will refrain from selectively quoting, or bolding sensationally...

http://northtemple.com/2010/02/01/on-ipads-grandmas-and-gam

http://www.macworld.com/article/146040/2010/02/ipad.html?lsrc=twt_macworld


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> It doesn't argue, in fact it doesn't do much at all... apart from provide a load of fluff to the needle.
> 
> Here are a couple of _interesting_ articles that I will refrain from selectively quoting, or bolding sensationally...
> 
> ...


The exact same points were expressed in the first link so I'm not sure why you were so quick to dismiss it.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2010)

Because the (small) point it was making was buried in a mound of fluff about cult of mac.


That macworld article is very interesting, though.



> The iPad won’t kill the computer any more than the graphical user interface did away with the command line (it’s still there, remember?), but it is Apple saying once again that there’s a better way. Regardless of how many people buy an iPad, it’s not hard to look forward a few years and imagine a world where more and more people are interacting with technology in this new way. Remember: even if it often seems to do just the opposite, the ultimate goal of technology has always been to make life easier.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Because the (small) point it was making was buried in a mound of fluff about cult of mac.


Isn't that what was said on the page I liked to? The vast majority of comments were _nothing_ to do with the cult of the Mac but were all about the implications of the iPad.

There's some very informed comments in there.



> yes, the iPad is for lounging about [that's what lots of folks do now with iPhones, iPod touches, and laptops, and now they can do it bigger and easier]; but there is so much more potential in this product: sketching and drawing at home or in meetings?with the finger or a 3rd party stylus; architects and construction crews on-site; doctors and other hospital staff; schoolteachers and coaches, and on and on... anyone who needs to make, store and retrieve data. and the beauty part is that applications are easy to find, cheap to buy, and usually easy to use. and apple makes it easier for those developers to develop and distribute their wares. it's a win-win-win situation for users, apple, and program designers.





> It seems to me that Apple made it very clear that the iPad is a creative tool - with their invite picture (the one behind Steve Jobs in your article) but not just for adults, but their children as well. iPad seems the ideal tool to take to vacation - hundreds of books and children's books, in color, without the weight. What better tool for mom waiting in the airport to occupy her children, or during the flight.
> 
> And the greatest asset: for school children. It will make it possible for schools to distribute e-books to their students, from the science tome to the world atlas, all for 1.5 pounds weight, because i-pad can render these books in color and pages can be flipped by hand as before. All the heavy weight is off the children's back pack. What a great invention. Because the ipad has iworks on it, and access to the web, the homework and creative learning in any field can, be done on it too.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2010)

oh sorry, didn't realise you were talking about the comments. tbf I rarely read them


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> oh sorry, didn't realise you were talking about the comments. tbf I rarely read them





editor said:


> It's actually quite an interesting article with some *sharp user comments and observations.*....



They're the best bit. There's some good stuff in there.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 4, 2010)

from b3ta:


----------



## Tricky Mickey (Feb 5, 2010)

My dad will be reading his footy news on the internet for the first time, on an ipad, by the end of the year, stone fact. Cos I'll buy him one. 

*And he won't even realise he's on the internet. *

that, i think, is the winning genius of the concept.


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## sunnysidedown (Feb 5, 2010)

Good article here about the iPad's possible use in the Enterprise *insert joke*

http://db.tidbits.com/article/10972


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## fen_boy (Feb 5, 2010)

I can't really see the ipad being a business tool.


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## tarannau (Feb 5, 2010)

Maybe not as a laptop replacement for business, but there are loads of applications from displaying medical records to providing POS sales tools that it would seem well suited for.


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## gabi (Feb 5, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I can't really see the ipad being a business tool.



I can. Depends on what business... It'd be great to pass round the table at a design pitch.


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## fen_boy (Feb 5, 2010)

gabi said:


> I can. Depends on what business... It'd be great to pass round the table at a design pitch.



Yes, I imagine it would be very useful for hoovering gak.


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## gabi (Feb 5, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Yes, I imagine it would be very useful for hoovering gak.



Well, that too


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## Lemon Eddy (Feb 5, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Good article here about the iPad's possible use in the Enterprise *insert joke*
> 
> http://db.tidbits.com/article/10972



Actually, I'd argue that article is very dodgy, with some deeply unlikely assumptions or just out and out inaccurate statements:

_
"it's likely that 95 percent of what you see are email, movies or games, a spreadsheet, a PowerPoint presentation, Microsoft Word document, a Web browser, or perhaps a PDF file.  But we road warriors have never really had a viable option other than a full-sized laptop."_ - Other than all the 11" CULV devices that have been on the market for the last year you mean?

_"neither laptops nor netbooks can get you through a full day"_  The fuck?  Both sectors have devices that can run 10 hours on a charge - and hey, with laptops and netbooks you can swap the battery (or even run two batteries at the expense of a bay"

_"Requests to support the iPad in the enterprise are inevitable, both from individual users and business units with particular needs"_  Inevitable?  Hardly.  Most of the large corporates I work with expressly state in their COE what devices will be supported (or are even allowed on the premise)

_"it's important to understand that if you work in IT you will see these requests, and you should have a plan in place to handle them, especially once your CEO plays with one at the next executive conference."
_ IT departments constantly get requests for "why can't we support this device/web browser/mail client/whatever.  They're pretty damned well versed in sending politely worded "only if you want to authorise $xxx,000 budget to change the infrastructure to support this" emails.
Again, bullshit.

_"iPad seems well positioned to meet needs of both the field user and the business traveler"_  Except by the time you add in a keyboard, stand, and power supply then you've taken the iPad up to notebook weight.  With CULV devices that have as long battery life, bigger screens, keyboards AND run an OS that the IT department already support, I think a brand new device that has a cut down OS and needs additional hardware to make it workable isn't well positioned, at all.

_"In practice, this shouldn't hinder potential iPad deployments since we are not trying to replace employee PCs, but instead want to add an additional device option. I highly doubt we'll see any organization rip out the sales team's laptops in exchange for iPads any time soon."_  The guy doesn't see a whole new budget cost for a device that won't replace laptops as a hindrance?

I mean, maybe I'm missing something here.  Perhaps my experience of IT in the enterprise is particulary unusual, and in fact:

1)  Most business users don't need a device they can type lengthy documents on
2)  IT departments just love to roll out a new OS to support
3)  IT departments don't usually block any support requests for non COE devices
4)  Companies love to spend money on extra hardware that doesn't actually replace existing devices of save them any money.
5)  There aren't already a number of lightweight laptops that offer 8+ hour run times

But unless I am wrong on those points, that article is a load of cobblers.


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## tarannau (Feb 5, 2010)

With the greatest of respect, I work in one the most conservative areas of corporate business, provided services to safe financial corporates typically in thrall to MS and Blackberries.

The iphone tool we provide are the fastest growing ones in the sector, with widespread acceptance already achieved. The ipad's compatible with iphone software and should thus have a huge head start


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## Lemon Eddy (Feb 5, 2010)

tarannau said:


> With the greatest of respect, I work in one the most conservative areas of corporate business, provided services to safe financial corporates typically in thrall to MS and Blackberries.
> 
> The iphone tool we provide are the fastest growing ones in the sector, with widespread acceptance already achieved. The ipad's compatible with iphone software and should thus have a huge head start



But the iPhone has made big inroads to business because it fits into an existing market sector -it's a phone, just one that does a hell of a lot more than many other phones.  It's a pretty easy sell to say "let's move from blackberry to iphone".  Sure, you'll get people arguing the toss over whether the blackberry is better, but it's a straight out swap proposal.

While the iPad cannot replace laptops.  It requires a whole, dedicated budget.


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 5, 2010)

In related news...The iTablet has been announced from UK company X2

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/31294/x2-computing-launches-itablet-windows-ipad


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## Crispy (Feb 5, 2010)

Runs windows XP

FAIL


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## fen_boy (Feb 5, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> In related news...The iTablet has been announced from UK company X2
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/31294/x2-computing-launches-itablet-windows-ipad



That looks terrible.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				fen_boy said:
			
		

> That looks terrible.



It doesn't look that bad, I note they've made a big deal about the bezel in the press release. Wonder if we'll see the iPad bezel reduced in the next gen?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Runs windows XP
> 
> FAIL



Quite, they've missed the point by a country mile.


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## fen_boy (Feb 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wonder if we'll see the iPad bezel reduced in the next gen?



Possibly not if this is anything to go by, which it probably isn't.


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## fen_boy (Feb 5, 2010)

This is interesting too. Amazon looking to add multi-touch to Kindle?


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## Lemon Eddy (Feb 5, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Possibly not if this is anything to go by, which it probably isn't.



From your link:



> previous patent applications from Apple have also pointed to its interest in "back-side touch".



Jobs, you filthy beast!


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## editor (Feb 5, 2010)

gabi said:


> I can. Depends on what business... It'd be great to pass round the table at a design pitch.


Until they say: "can we see that design with a different shaped logo" and you have to pull out your laptop, open up Photosop, make the edit, put it onto a webpage, upload it all and then refresh the iPad's screen.


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## teuchter (Feb 5, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Possibly not if this is anything to go by, which it probably isn't.


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## teuchter (Feb 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Until they say: "can we see that design with a different shaped logo" and you have to pull out your laptop, open up Photosop, make the edit, put it onto a webpage, upload it all and then refresh the iPad's screen.



Yes, but this is no different to the situation when passing round an image on a piece of paper.


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## Lemon Eddy (Feb 5, 2010)

Actually, change of plan.  Following the following bloody-obvious-yet-still-I-completely-missed-it point, I have now decided I need an iPad.  Right now.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/02/comic-books-will-look-incredible-on-the-ipad/


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## editor (Feb 6, 2010)

I'll probably get shouted at again for having the audacity to post up a link that doesn't totally high-five everything Apple, but please note: this is an article written on one of the biggest Apple fanboy sites on the web and it's being posted because I think it's a subject worthy of discussion.



> *Why (and How) Apple Killed the $9.99 Ebook*
> 
> Publishers joining Apple's iBooks store are turning their back on Amazon and its vision of the flat $9.99 ebook. Apple forced the music industry to charge 99 cents per song, so why are they helping publishers set their own prices?
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 6, 2010)

The book publishers are idiots if they fall for such a transparent move. Once Apple gets the market share with the iPad what's to stop them telling the publishers they have to sell ebooks cheaper...?

(Good article Ed, very relevant if you ask me)


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 6, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Actually, change of plan.  Following the following bloody-obvious-yet-still-I-completely-missed-it point, I have now decided I need an iPad.  Right now.
> 
> http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/02/comic-books-will-look-incredible-on-the-ipad/



Heh I did think this would be cool to get all those back issues of comics I love without having to worry about storage space!


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## tarannau (Feb 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Until they say: "can we see that design with a different shaped logo" and you have to pull out your laptop, open up Photosop, make the edit, put it onto a webpage, upload it all and then refresh the iPad's screen.



You would kind of hope that a decent agency/designer would come prepared with alternatives, wouldn't you?

In over ten years of pitches I can't really think of one time when we've asked a designer or agency to redesign something of consequence on the spot. It'd be a waste of everyone's time and seem a bit unprofessionally shoddy really. There's feedback meetings and studio visits if the client really wants to play live tinkerman like that.


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## editor (Feb 6, 2010)

tarannau said:


> You would kind of hope that a decent  agency/designer would come prepared with alternatives, wouldn't  you?


I'm a designer,and usually a well prepared one, too. However, I've taken  countless designs along to loads of clients and it's really not that  unusual for some doofus sat around the table to suddenly butt in with  some random idea he'd like to see onscreen. Usually the ideas are shit, so it's very handy being able to make the proposed changes and promptly illustrate how crap the change would look. 

The iPad's screen is a bit small for showing off some work too and the lack of multi-tasking would make it a pain in the arse to use in such situations. Even worse is the lack of Flash, which would render the iPad totally useless for showing off many sites.

That's not to say that it may not make a great home media device though.


Kid_Eternity said:


> The book publishers are idiots if they fall for such a transparent move. Once Apple gets the market share with the iPad what's to stop them telling the publishers they have to sell ebooks cheaper...?


Or upping their own fat slice of the pie when they have market dominance? 

Apple - with all their trillion$ - could have helped musicians all around the world by accepting a proposed higher royalty rate, but instead threatened an almighty flounce rather than pay up.

It's been said that it's like we're sleepwalking back into the equivalent of the old Hollywood studio system, with a handful of big players holding all the cards and dictating terms and taste. They may have a point.


----------



## tarannau (Feb 6, 2010)

Ah well, I think we're both united in saying that clients like that would be dufuses. I've worked on both sides of the client/agency fence and with too big a studio to make that mistake I guess - the results would almost invariably be shit and annoy some.

i'm not convinced that the ipad is a perfect presentation tool fwiw, but it certainly has some potential utility there. 

I'm not convinced it's really a recreation of the hollywood studio baron system really. It's more a natural result of corporate consolidation and perceived scale/integration opportunities - seen everywhere from chocolate to car making. And on the plus side the openness and comparatively low entry barriers to internet trading make independents more of a possibility


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## sunnysidedown (Feb 6, 2010)

editor said:


> I'll probably get shouted at again for having the audacity to post up a link that doesn't totally high-five everything Apple



lol



editor said:


> this is an article written on one of the biggest Apple fanboy sites on the web and it's being posted because I think it's a subject worthy of discussion.



Amazon were making a loss on the $9.99 price, the purpose was to sell Kindles.


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## Structaural (Feb 6, 2010)

Apple make 30% on all e-books too, the publishers actually end up with less revenue with the higher prices on the AppStore than they do with lower prices on Amazon. You can't take it with you Jobsie.


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## Structaural (Feb 6, 2010)

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...hachette_pricing_leverage_against_amazon.html

Would you pay 12-15 quid for an ebook? As that endgaget article points out we like '9's

Well retailers have often controlled the market and Apple and Amazon are the internet Curry's and Walmart.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2010)

ebook sale prices are one of the things I'm happy to see "ruled by the market" because they're basically just stupidly high _anyway_, and I'm not buying DRMed ebooks in any case. The publishers want to be able to set them so that they can charge people $50 for advance access to the new Harry Potter or whatever, then put it down to $10 for everyone else, then $2 after a year or something - just like they do with paper books. Well, good luck to them - if they use their "market freedom" to start charging reasonable prices I might buy some, if they continue as they have been, I'll not bother and take alternative routes if I'm so inclined, like everyone else will.

I'm very happy if Amazon and Apple want to fight about ebooks, too, rather than forming a cosy cartel.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 6, 2010)

^ Spot on FM.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 7, 2010)

I've come to the conclusion that I've no interest in buying ebooks.  Its someone solving a problem that didn't really exist until they solved it.

I like books.  They require no hardware spend and will never fail unless I set them on fire or leave them in water.


----------



## editor (Feb 7, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm very happy if Amazon and Apple want to fight about ebooks, too, rather than forming a cosy cartel.


Trouble is, Apple's intervention into the market has just forced the prices _up_.


http://forums.cnet.com/5208-10152_102-0.html?threadID=381088


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I've come to the conclusion that I've no interest in buying ebooks.  Its someone solving a problem that didn't really exist until they solved it.
> 
> I like books.  They require no hardware spend and will never fail unless I set them on fire or leave them in water.



Yep, pretty much what I've said from the start


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 9, 2010)

*Council slammed for plans to spend £30,000 on iPads for councillors ... to save paper*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nd-30-000-iPads-councillors---save-paper.html



> Taxpayers could be forced to foot a £30,000 bill after a Town Hall earmarked some of its 'climate change' budget to buy iPads.
> 
> Cambridge City Council has pledged to spend the cash on 42 of Apple's latest gadget to help get rid of some of the thousands of pages of paper printed in meetings each year.



Just think of the fun the papers will have when these start going missing on trains.


----------



## elbows (Feb 9, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nd-30-000-iPads-councillors---save-paper.html
> 
> 
> 
> Just think of the fun the papers will have when these start going missing on trains.



Aside from the tabloid and security issues, Im well interested to know the reality when it comes to tablets harm to the environment versus paper.

Certainly tablets such as the iPad dont use much power compared to laptops and desktops, though I assume power used during manufacturing will still be rather high.

But Im completely clueless about paper beyond the general environmental harm its manufacture is likely to cause, and all the subsequent uses of power such as transporting it, printing on it, throwing it away.

How am I to find out how many pieces of paper a tablet would need to displace in order to be better for the environment, making certain asumptions about the life of the tablet?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 9, 2010)

elbows said:


> How am I to find out how many pieces of paper a tablet would need to displace in order to be better for the environment, making certain asumptions about the life of the tablet?



I think I've seen an attempt to work this out somewhere (not specifically for the iPad; I think it was comapring to a PC) but can't remember exactly where...


----------



## Kanda (Feb 9, 2010)

elbows said:


> Aside from the tabloid and security issues, Im well interested to know the reality when it comes to tablets harm to the environment versus paper.
> 
> Certainly tablets such as the iPad dont use much power compared to laptops and desktops, though I assume power used during manufacturing will still be rather high.
> 
> ...




Apple website has loads of info about it's green credentials. Like it does it's whole range.

Quick link I found..http://www.geeksugar.com/Apple-iPad-Environmentally-Friendly-7194529

From the iPad webpage:



> iPad embodies Apple’s continuing environmental progress. It is designed with the following features to reduce environmental impact:
> Arsenic-free display glass
> BFR-free
> Mercury-free LCD display
> ...


----------



## teuchter (Feb 9, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Apple website has loads of info about it's green credentials. Like it does it's whole range.
> 
> Quick link I found..http://www.geeksugar.com/Apple-iPad-Environmentally-Friendly-7194529
> 
> From the iPad webpage:



That doesn't actually tell you anything very useful in terms of comparison with the impact of the amount of paper its use might offset though.

Ecofriendliness is all relative... virtually nothing we do is "sustainable" - it's a question of what's the least bad.


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2010)

Apple are better than most, but are nowhere near the best when it comes to eco-credentials.

(Higher marks the better)



> *7.3*​ *Nokia* -- Remains in first place  with good scores on toxics use reduction, but loses points on energy.  More... *6.9*​ *Sony Ericsson* -- Moves up with  top marks on toxics elimination but weak on recycling. More... *5.3*​ *Toshiba* -- Good score on toxics  elimination but needs to meet upcoming phase out commitment by March  2010. More... *5.3*​ *Philips* -- Loses points for  failing to lobby for phase out of hazardous substance in legislation. More... *5.1*​ *Apple* -- Continues to improve,  scoring best on eliminating toxic chemicals and e-waste criteria. More... *5.1*​ *LG Electronics* -- LG score  improves, but is still penalized for postponing date for toxics phase  out. More... *5.1*​ *Sony* -- Maintains overall score  with better energy total, but needs to lobby for stronger chemicals  legislation.  More... *5.1
> *​ *Motorola* -- Slightly reduced  score, due to lack of lobbying for stronger chemicals legislation. More... *5.1*​ *Samsung* -- Big drop due to  penalty point for failing to meet commitment to phase out hazardous  substances. More... *4.9*​ *Panasonic* -- Score unchanged,  strongest on energy but poor on e-waste and recycling. More...



http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/how-the-companies-line-up

Not sure where the iPad sits in all that.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 12, 2010)

I've decided that yes, I do want an ipad. I spend the vast majority of my computing time on the internet or listening to music or watching movies etc. Doing all that sat in a hard chair at a table is unnecessary. I'd much rather slouch on the sofa. I don't need the power of a laptop and besides, they're not really made for sofa slouching.

I'll probably get the 2nd version.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I'll probably get the 2nd version.



Pah.... 

The second version is basically the first version but with some stuff slightly improved.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 12, 2010)

yep. and the bugs fixed, and cheaper


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> listening to music or watching movies... sat in a hard chair at a table



Who on earth does that?

This is why stereos, televisions and sofas were invented, surely


----------



## WWWeed (Feb 12, 2010)

Overpriced POS like everyone has said:



> Apple stands to make a profit of up to $483 per unit on its iPad according to a very literal breakdown by industry analysts iSuppli.
> 
> The research firm said the total cost of materials and manufacture for Apple's big iPhone ranged from $229.35 for the 3G-less, 16GB version, which sells for $499 to $346.5 for the top of the range 3G 64GB version, which carries a $829 price tag.
> 
> ...


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/11/ipad_breakdown/

I'm glad you guys have money to burn because I dont!


----------



## Crispy (Feb 12, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Overpriced POS like everyone has said:
> 
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/11/ipad_breakdown/
> ...


Exactly why I'm waiting for v2. Just like every previous apple consumer electronics device, the price will drop after the early adopters have created the word-of-mouth hype.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 12, 2010)

If this follows the same pattern as the iPhone I'll wait till V3...if I bother at all. Still remain to be convinced by this, although it has increased my interest in getting a ebook reader this year...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 13, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Overpriced POS like everyone has said:
> 
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/11/ipad_breakdown/
> ...



On the other hand, the details in that article are made up and the title is a lie. So, eh. I'm glad so many people have money to burn making shit up so they can get their company's name in tech blogs.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 13, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> On the other hand, the details in that article are made up and the title is a lie. So, eh. I'm glad so many people have money to burn making shit up so they can get their company's name in tech blogs.





I don't think its made up?  Not hard to check prices for stuff in quantity. Given that its Apple they can get stuff made even cheaper.

http://www.isuppli.com/News/Pages/M...eMaximumProfitsforApple,iSuppliEstimates.aspx


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 13, 2010)

Quite a few of the prices are basically guesses, and more to the point, they don't even have an ipad to take apart. (Also the idea that retail price minus basic component cost equals profit is quite comical )


----------



## grit (Feb 13, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Also the idea that retail price minus basic component cost equals profit is quite comical



Exactly! People quickly forget R&D,Packaging,marketing etc.


----------



## Ae589 (Feb 13, 2010)

grit said:


> Exactly! People quickly forget R&D,Packaging,marketing etc.



I'm surprised that the cost of labour is $10.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

Apparently 'pent up demand' for iPad is higher than it was for the iPhone: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/23...some-cannibalization-of-other-apple-products/


----------



## Crispy (Feb 23, 2010)

pretty meaningless really


----------



## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

Crispy said:


> pretty meaningless really



Isn't most market research?


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Apparently 'pent up demand' for iPad is higher than it was for the iPhone: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/23...some-cannibalization-of-other-apple-products/


If proof were needed of what bollocks those surveys are, gaze your eyes at this recent gem:



> *Palm Pre demand on O2 higher than for iPhone?*
> 
> The launch of the Palm Pre on O2 could generate more attention than the iPhone did just two years earlier, a TNS study finds today. About 26 percent of 1,000 UK residents polled say they will or probably will buy a Palm Pre for its October 16th British launch; by comparison, only 17 percent planned to get an iPhone when it debuted in fall 2007


----------



## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

As I said, most market research is meaningless. up there ^^

People post them up though, you have before too...


----------



## magneze (Feb 23, 2010)

All the pent up demand for the iPhone gave Apple a 2.1% market share in 2009. What can we expect for the iPad? The mind boggles.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 23, 2010)

magneze said:


> All the pent up demand for the iPhone gave Apple a 2.1% market share in 2009. What can we expect for the iPad? The mind boggles.


Well, the markets are quite different eh? 5 million iphones in the phone market is a dribble. 5 million ipads in the tablet market is a flood


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## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

Has Pre restarted production yet btw??


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## magneze (Feb 23, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Well, the markets are quite different eh? 5 million iphones in the phone market is a dribble. 5 million ipads in the tablet market is a flood


Depends which pigeon hole though doesn't it. Put it in with a netbook, which Steve Jobs named as the target in his speech and 5 million isn't much ...


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## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

It is significant if it nicks the marketshare of whatever it's pigeon holed as going forward.


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## Crispy (Feb 23, 2010)

true, but then that 2% is of all phones, no 'smart'phones, isn't it? lies damn lies and statistics


----------



## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

It's 14.4% of smartphone marketshare: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/23...apple-claims-third-place-in-smartphone-sales/

apparently...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 23, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Well, the markets are quite different eh? 5 million iphones in the phone market is a dribble. 5 million ipads in the tablet market is a flood


Tablet market?

There's a tablet market?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 23, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It's 14.4% of smartphone marketshare: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/23...apple-claims-third-place-in-smartphone-sales/
> 
> apparently...



Apparently they cornered 100% of the iphone marketshare. Impressive stuff


----------



## Badgers (Mar 2, 2010)

Sorry if 'pearoasting' this but I smiled 







From - www.bitterwallet.com


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 2, 2010)

Heh.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 2, 2010)

So in 2014 the hardware will finally be available for my Twister Online ap idea?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2010)

As long as it's not _naked_ twister.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 2, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> As long as it's not _naked_ twister.


 
You'd need a forward facing cam on the iMat for that. So its not likely.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 3, 2010)

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/02/apple-ipad-to-go-on-sale-friday-march-26th/



> Finally, those who camp out for the iPad will receive a "special gift".



Fucks sake, don't encourage them!!


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 3, 2010)

> Finally, those who camp out for the iPad will receive a "special gift".



Considering how gorgeous most of the female staff at the Zurich store are, they'll have pent up fanboi's around the block twice with this anouncment


----------



## 19sixtysix (Mar 3, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Sorry if 'pearoasting' this but I smiled
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a use for an iBoard. Want!


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

There's a good piece here about how awkward the thing might be to use:



> But here’s one thing you may not notice unless you pay extra close attention: Almost every shot of a person actually using the iPad shows legs contorted into unusual positions. Because while you can hold an iPad in one hand and poke at the screen with the other, the iPad is really just too big to use this way. So Apple is suggesting you prop it up on your legs — and that makes it all but useless if you’re sitting in a normal position.
> 
> If you place a notebook computer on your lap, you can still see the screen because the keyboard rests on your legs and the screen extends upward. When you put a slate PC like the iPad on your lap, the screen is where the keyboard would normally be. You’d have to bend over awkwardly and incur neck and back pain to use it like this.
> 
> ...


Video:


----------



## Crispy (Mar 8, 2010)

Nobody really knows what it's like to use in real world situations, because the only chance the press have had to actually touch one was for a brief fondle while standing round a table at the launch event. Until they're actually in real people's hands, it's all just speculation.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Nobody really knows what it's like to use in real world situations, because the only chance the press have had to actually touch one was for a brief fondle while standing round a table at the launch event. Until they're actually in real people's hands, it's all just speculation.


Well, I think you can use your imaginatrion to work out what it will be like typing on a flat tablet device, and use your noggin to work out what kind of positions you might have to adopt.


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2010)

I just rested a similarly-sized book on my lap, sitting here in my chair. It's fine for one or two-handed typing. Wouldn't write an essay on it of course, but fine for its intended use I think. The all-angles screen on the iPad will help here, as it won't matter you're viewing the screen at an angle. Will have to play with the real thing to know for sure of course.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Mar 8, 2010)

More rumours/simulations from Engadget on the courier.  OK, I know this is all at the mockup stage, but I really do believe if MS can do a half decent implementation of courier, it'll wee all over the iPad as a form factor:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

I'll surprised if it turns out that good but Jesus just imagine if it did??


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> More rumours/simulations from Engadget on the courier.  OK, I know this is all at the mockup stage, but I really do believe if MS can do a half decent implementation of courier, it'll wee all over the iPad as a form factor:


We discussed this in the Courier thread. It's a fantastic looking device and unlike the iPad seems to be as much more concerned with creating content rather than focussing on buying and consuming content.

If the Courier is half as good as this demo, I'm getting one.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Mar 8, 2010)

Someone pointed out just how utterly unlikely the courier ever was to appear.

Look at microsoft's track record. Time and time and time again they've demo'd something or proposed something then either dropped it or when it appears two years later it turns out to be vastly underwhelming.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Someone pointed out just how utterly unlikely the courier ever was to appear.
> 
> Look at microsoft's track record. Time and time and time again they've demo'd something or proposed something then either dropped it or when it appears two years later it turns out to be vastly underwhelming.



True, but they have got the most successful console of this generation, which proves they can do hardware well if they want to, even if they have to take a massive loss to achieve market dominance.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Mar 8, 2010)

editor said:


> If the Courier is half as good as this demo, I'm getting one.



I would be surprised if this one doesn't happen, and happen well.

The form factor makes perfect sense.  Hold it like a book for browsing/reading, or editing on the go.  Flip it to netbook when you're typing.  The DS has shown how you can use that form factor in different modes for different purposes.

Even if MS fluff this, how long for Google to add a booklet mode to Android or Chrome OS, and HTC to knock out a similar system?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Mar 8, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> True, but they have got the most successful console of this generation, which proves they can do hardware well if they want to, even if they have to take a massive loss to achieve market dominance.


The XBox 360 is probably the most unreliable mass produced electrical item of all time. Awful design that was not tested enough and not fit for purpose. Anyone who uses the 360 as an example of how to do hardware right should be taken outside and shot, then shot again.

Sorry GS.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> The XBox 360 is probably the most unreliable mass produced electrical item of all time. Awful design that was not tested enough and not fit for purpose. Anyone who uses the 360 as an example of how to do hardware right should be taken outside and shot, then shot again.
> 
> Sorry GS.



Fair. 

Maybe well was the wrong choice of words, when I meant successful. The poor reliability rate hasn't stopped it doing very well. I can see why MS would be willing to make a loss on this as well if its running winmo 7 (sorry windows phone). Seeing as mobile devices are seen as the future of computing, then the losses on toy project like xbox could seem like nothing.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Mar 8, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> Fair.
> 
> Maybe well was the wrong choice of words, when I meant successful. The poor reliability rate hasn't stopped it doing very well. I can see why MS would be willing to make a loss on this as well if its running winmo 7 (sorry windows phone). Seeing as mobile devices are seen as the future of computing, then the losses on toy project like xbox could seem like nothing.


Yup, they're nice enough machines now they've matured and it does prove how well MS can do when they throw their muscle and money behind development of games / apps. Which will be the thing (possibly after UI) that makes the most difference in this market segment.


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## magneze (Mar 8, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> More rumours/simulations from Engadget on the courier.  OK, I know this is all at the mockup stage, but I really do believe if MS can do a half decent implementation of courier, it'll wee all over the iPad as a form factor:


That looks great, but I do wonder about handwriting recognition. Many people can now type faster than they can write. A potential stumbling block for all tablets.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Someone pointed out just how utterly unlikely the courier ever was to appear.
> 
> Look at microsoft's track record. Time and time and time again they've demo'd something or proposed something then either dropped it or when it appears two years later it turns out to be vastly underwhelming.



All this says to me is "Microsoft appear to have a design team that is exploring new ideas". Which is not a bad thing of course, would make a refreshing change, but it doesn't say "this is any sort of actual product" to me at all.

(will move to the correct thread - this isn't an iPad after all)


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

Back on the iPad: if multi-tasking isn't brought in by the time it's released, it's going to be hideous to use. 

Here's how it goes on my iPhone: load up Scrabble (12 seconds), and start to play game. Get an email alert. Close Scrabble, go to look at email, reply, close it, click on Scrabble icon and wait another 12 seconds for it to load. Get an SMS. Close, Open, Close, Open etc etc ad infinitum. 

It's shit on the iPhone and it's going to be ten times more annoying on the iPad where you might reasonably want to keep web pages/IM/Skype or whatever open.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2010)

12 seconds? That is an unusual length of time to launch an app.

Anyway, it isn't something that's ever bothered me. I'm playing a game, a notification comes up. Either I think "oh that looks interesting, sod the game I'll go read the email", or I think "oh just another stupid notification, I'll look at it later maybe". I can only ever use one app at a time, I can't play solitaire at the same time as read mail.

This is very much the case on my desktop too. I don't actually need my mail app open all the time, all I want is notification of new mail and the option to switch over if it looks important. I do use multiple apps at once but those tend to be things I couldn't practically do on a mobile device anyway (BBEdit and Pixelmator and Transmit to do code/images/ftp for web design for instance).


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> 12 seconds? That is an unusual length of time to launch an app.
> 
> Anyway, it isn't something that's ever bothered me. I'm playing a game, a notification comes up. Either I think "oh that looks interesting, sod the game I'll go read the email", or I think "oh just another stupid notification, I'll look at it later maybe". I can only ever use one app at a time, I can't play solitaire at the same time as read mail.
> 
> This is very much the case on my desktop too. I don't actually need my mail app open all the time, all I want is notification of new mail and the option to switch over if it looks important. I do use multiple apps at once but those tend to be things I couldn't practically do on a mobile device anyway (BBEdit and Pixelmator and Transmit to do code/images/ftp for web design for instance).



For other users multitasking is essential and it is a strange decision to disable them in this way. I don't ever browse/email/im without spotify or last.fm in the background, for example.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2010)

Listening to music is the only time I've had that desire actually. You can do it with the standard music player but not with music-generating apps.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Back on the iPad: if multi-tasking isn't brought in by the time it's released, it's going to be hideous to use.
> 
> Here's how it goes on my iPhone: load up Scrabble (12 seconds), and start to play game. Get an email alert. Close Scrabble, go to look at email, reply, close it, click on Scrabble icon and wait another 12 seconds for it to load. Get an SMS. Close, Open, Close, Open etc etc ad infinitum.
> 
> It's shit on the iPhone and it's going to be ten times more annoying on the iPad where you might reasonably want to keep web pages/IM/Skype or whatever open.


 
12 seconds?? I've never known any app to take that long on the 3GS! I'd advise playing other games.


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Listening to music is the only time I've had that desire actually. You can do it with the standard music player but not with music-generating apps.


You can't even play Spotify and do a single other thing on the iPad.





Kid_Eternity said:


> 12 seconds?? I've never known any app to take that long on the 3GS! I'd advise playing other games.


The iPhone version is as slick as you might expect but it takes ages to load up and is actually worse than Ye Olde Palm version.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 9, 2010)

I don't have Scrabble but:

Guardian app: 10 secs to load & update
Google Maps: 3 secs load & update
Facebook: 6 secs -  load & update
PS Mobile: 1.5secs
Gorilla Cam: 2.5 secs
GTA Chinatown: 8 secs
Peggle: 8secs
Sim City: 13 secs 
X Plane9 :  8.5 secs

(all times on a 3gs & wifi)

So, the longest load is Sim City which, like Scrabble, is EA isn't it?


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Mar 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 12 seconds?? I've never known any app to take that long on the 3GS! I'd advise playing other games.



Peggle takes even longer.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 9, 2010)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Peggle takes even longer.



It really doesn't.


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## Crispy (Mar 9, 2010)

Scrabble is one of the worst iphone apps out there. Massively bloated, terrible interface and somehow manages to drain the battery just sitting there doing nothing. The AI is either stupidly easy or ridiculously difficult. Oh and you get 5 free 'cheats' per game and you can't turn the option off.

But yes, some sort of multi tasking or task switching at the least can't come sooner. I wouldn't mind a 'freeze-state' task switcher combined with an API for basic background processes eg. playing a music stream, if they're not willing to go as far as full MT.


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## editor (Mar 9, 2010)

The thing is, for all its bloat it doesn't even tell you the meaning of the words (unless I'm missing something). I didn't know you can cheat either (how?).

For the record, I counted 12 seconds from hitting the icon to actually playing the game. It's immediate on the Palm.


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## Crispy (Mar 9, 2010)

Those five little hearts are your 'hints' or rather, the best possible scoring moves you can make with your current tiles. There's a button (it might be in the Pause menu) that lets you play your best possible move. Spoils it, cos I'm too weak to avoid the temptation!

Blame EA, who have made a 'video game' version of scrabble, rather than a lightweight word game


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## Gromit (Mar 9, 2010)

Instead of Scrabble I play Words with Friends. 

It's like scrabble but bigger board and special tiles are in different places. You have to wait for the other player to take their turn but I like playing a game over the space of days.


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## editor (Mar 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Those five little hearts are your 'hints' or rather, the best possible scoring moves you can make with your current tiles.


Ah, gotcha. I've not noticed that before.

It's truly rubbish that it doesn't tell you what the words mean - so when you're getting annihilated by it in expert mode, you never get to learn what its killer XYRYERIABZT move means.


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## Sunray (Mar 9, 2010)

Lack of multi-tasking on a iPhone is daft but generally tolerable until you want to use spotify and then it becomes weird.

Lack of multi-tasking on the iPad is quite the most ridiculous thing ever, its adding a flaw unnecessarily and its got too many obvious flaws that everyone can pretty much agree are flaws and nobody even owns one yet.  Its in the Apple TV bracket as far as I can see, nice but no thanks.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> I don't have Scrabble but:
> 
> Guardian app: 10 secs to load & update
> Google Maps: 3 secs load & update
> ...



Where are these numbers from?  The guardian opens and loads faster than 10 seconds for me, Facebook is barely 2 seconds and Peggle isn't that close to 8 seconds before it's ready...


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## editor (Mar 9, 2010)

The Guardian app loads pretty quick, but can then take a fair while to update.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Lack of multi-tasking on the iPad is quite the most ridiculous thing ever, its adding a flaw unnecessarily



The flaw is there so that Apple get lots of money when all the idiot fanbois buy it for a second time when they release V2.0


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 12, 2010)

US Apple store is 'busy updating' (13:00pm GMT) so no orders are happening at the moment.

Rumour has it that the iPad will begin pre-orders today.


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> US Apple store is 'busy updating' (13:00pm GMT) so no orders are happening at the moment.
> 
> Rumour has it that the iPad will begin pre-orders today.


It's just another of Apple's hype-boosting tactics to get fanboy bloggers squeaking with iExpectation - and, right on cue, loads of sites covered the "OMG! The store is down!!!!" 'story'.

The date was already set for today for iPad pre-orders.


> The UK store is back online without any noticeable changes, certainly no Apple UK iPad pricing. The US store has been updated with pre-ordering ability for the iPad. Apple is only shipping to US locations from the US store.
> 
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/business/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=3215041


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## Crispy (Mar 12, 2010)

teeny-weeny little feature update - the Mute switch is now a Lock Screen Orientation switch


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 12, 2010)

I quite like the case


----------



## Crispy (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah it's a clever design


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## teuchter (Mar 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> teeny-weeny little feature update - the Mute switch is now a Lock Screen Orientation switch



That's it. I'm getting one now.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 12, 2010)

teuchter said:


> That's it. I'm getting one now.


I knew you'd crack

My need for lounge sofa internet/lightweight computing is about to become very real, with my desktop computer being banished to the spare room. My tweaky-tweaky geek side says get a Dell Mini 10v and put Snow Leopard on it, my gadget-lust and KISS side says get an ipad. My sensible voice says hold your horses


----------



## teuchter (Mar 12, 2010)

You could get a glass of whisky, a cat, and a pipe instead.


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## Crispy (Mar 12, 2010)

That can be arranged


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> teeny-weeny little feature update - the Mute switch is now a Lock Screen Orientation switch


Alluring though that feature is, I'm still finding the Courier a far more appealing prospect.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 12, 2010)

Long term, whisky, cat and pipe would cost more than an iPad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 12, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

It's sold 51,000 units in two hours apparently...


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 12, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Where are these numbers from?



My head. 
After nearly 20 years as a photographer, my counted seconds are more acurate than a fucking swiss watch


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not sure whether to get the 3G model or not, given that I have a 3G modem which I use for proper computers anyway, and could just get one of those little wifi router things for it for about the same price as the difference between models, with no extra data charges paid by me. On the other hand it's less convenient, and just a PAYG data plan would cost basically bobbins anyway.

#firstworldproblems


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 13, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The flaw is there so that Apple get lots of money when all the idiot fanbois buy it for a second time when they release V2.0



MT will be a software update, and could still be available on this release (according to a few reports).

btw, you think those idiot fanbois you mention actually keep the original harware when upgrading? I've been buying Mac's and selling them when upgrading without making a huge loss (sometimes making a profit) for years.


----------



## ovaltina (Mar 13, 2010)

Bit off topic but I just found this video from the opening of Brighton's Apple Store last summer. Fast forward to 2.30mins to see the Geniuses limbering up for opening day. I had to stop watching then but you might have a stronger stomach


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## editor (Mar 13, 2010)

x 1,000


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## ovaltina (Mar 13, 2010)

It's just sales isn't it... double glazing and hoover salespeople do the same motivational bollocks before they start the day. I'm far too grumpy for that sort of job and will never be an iGenius


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 15, 2010)

editor said:


> x 1,000



For once, I'm in total agreement with you 

Someone should to mod the airport level in MW2 to become an apple store opening. That would be seriously satisfying


----------



## Kanda (Mar 15, 2010)

FF13 launch the other day, HMV was rammed with people dressed like characters from the game, best 20 got prizes.. and you think an Apple store is bad?!


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2010)

Kanda said:


> FF13 launch the other day, HMV was rammed with people dressed like characters from the game, best 20 got prizes.. and you think an Apple store is bad?!


Did the HMV staff first run around the block shrieking and high fiving everyone and then line up inside ready to   whoop and applaud incoming customers, making sure another high five accompanied every purchase?

No, I thought not. And, of course most of the people in the FF13 queue were _children_ and the launch was positively dignified and calm compared to an Apple consume-a-thon.

See the video here:


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2010)

Apparently the battery replacement program for the ipad will involve being sent a whole new ipad without any of your data on it.  This does not fill me with deep joy but is not enough to stop me getting one.

I remain convinced that I will really enjoy surfing the web with one of these so I am getting impatient, especially as the UK release has been delayed. The availability of various accessories such as the keyboard and memory card reader in the US have also slipped, but not sure if thats down to demand or production issues.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 17, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				elbows said:
			
		

> The availability of various accessories such as the keyboard and memory card reader



All other issues aside, why the fuck they won't put an even an sd slot on it is a real fucking mystery - is it too PC like for apple's tastes or something, or is it simply the oppertunity to put a $10 card reader in a shiny apple wrapper & milk the gulable for more cash?


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

SD card slot would be VERY handy but I know why exactly Apple won't include one: it's because it would usefully let people increase the memory themselves and that would ruin the chances of shifting iPad II (with added memory!).

The notion of replacing an entire computer just to get the battery replaced remains as daft as it ever was.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> All other issues aside, why the fuck they won't put an even an sd slot on it is a real fucking mystery - is it too PC like for apple's tastes or something, or is it simply the oppertunity to put a $10 card reader in a shiny apple wrapper & milk the gulable for more cash?



I suspect there are several business reasons why they have tended not to include memory readers, I was a bit surprised they have even offered an adaptor for the ipad. They havent even offered memory readers built into their laptops very often although that has changed in the last year or so on a few models.

I would speculate that reasons include what editor said, along with an approach to hardware that favours minimalistic style & simplicity over features, and also a possible fears that the memory slot could be exploited to offer an alternative way to transfer stuff onto the device, when they of course want nearly everything to go via itunes so they can retain maximum control.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

elbows said:


> I would speculate that reasons include what editor said, along with an approach to hardware that favours minimalistic style & simplicity over features....


If Apple can fit a sleek CD/DVD slot into their MacBooks I don't think an SD card is likely to cause the slightest disruption to the iPad's lines. 

The reason is purely profit and, sadly, where Apple lead, others often follow.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> SD card slot would be VERY handy but I know why exactly Apple won't include one: it's because it would usefully let people increase the memory themselves and that would ruin the chances of shifting iPad II (with added memory!).
> 
> The notion of replacing an entire computer just to get the battery replaced remains as daft as it ever was.



SD card slot is an optional extra but clearly read only for the reasons you state.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> The reason is purely profit and, sadly, where Apple lead, others often follow.



Not many have followed Apples level of control freakery though have they, at least yet.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 17, 2010)

elbows said:


> Not many have followed Apples level of control freakery though have they, at least yet.



That's because your product has to be shit hot to get away with it. However looks like WinMo 7 is taking lots of leaves out of apples book at the moment.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

elbows said:


> Not many have followed Apples level of control freakery though have they, at least yet.


Eh? Windows Mobile 7 are right there in the queue:

apps have to be approved? check
only one place to get them from? check
and that's solely controlled by a committee of Microsoft people? check


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> SD card slot is an optional extra but clearly read only for the reasons you state.


Optional suggests you can get an iPad with one built in. 

In fact, you have to buy a separate dongle thing and then lug that around with you - just like the equally irritating USB dongle. 



> Don’t you worry about the iPad lacking an SD card slot and USB port. Apple has you covered with adapters! How nice of Lord Jobs. Instead of building in two industry standards, users are forced to buy extra items with their new iPad. It’s not like the these standards are large and would take away from the oh-so-important design.
> 
> But it really is ridiculous that the iPad doesn’t have an SD card slot built-in. USB port, fine. Apple is sticking with its massive dock connector, but an SD card slot — or microSD card slot — would actually open the iPad to some niche markets.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2010)

Good grief. Let the hype build!


> Apple Swears iPad Partners to Secrecy
> 
> Developers must sequester the tablet computer in rooms with blacked-out windows, reflecting secrecy around a product that may mean billions of dollars in sales
> 
> ...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Mar 19, 2010)

Wonder how many app developers will be arrested by the Met for terrorism following their suspicious behaviour?


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Good grief. Let the hype build!




A friend who is a very sought after advertising still life photographer was approached via his US agent to shoot "something" for Apple. 
He said the document they sent over regarding secracy etc was hilarious.
He turned it down in the end due this excessive silliness & them not grasping the concept that he didn't really give a toss about whatever their shiny little object was, he had other jobs to do that were equally as big, if not bigger than Apple & if they wanted him to fly over & shoot it, then they could bloody well tell him what it was they wanted shooting, so he could decide what he needed to bring with him to the small room in California in order to shoot it.

To this day, he still has no idea what it was


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 21, 2010)




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## editor (Mar 22, 2010)

So, no Picasa for the iPad then. 



> "…Are there any plans to support Picasa’s faces and albums in iTunes, so I can take full advantage of the [iPad] Photos application, since Photoshop Album is long discontinued. If not, please can you look into supporting the Picasa library format?"
> 
> And the response from Steve Jobs:
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Mar 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Eh? Windows Mobile 7 are right there in the queue:
> 
> apps have to be approved? check
> only one place to get them from? check
> and that's solely controlled by a committee of Microsoft people? check



To be honest I hadnt seen the Microsoft Phone 7 details when I wrote that few had copied Apple in terms of control freakery yet. Im not really surprised they have gone down the same route, though I think success is far from assured for them. Much will come down to how well they actually get silverlight to perform on the device, and some good handsets.

On the iPad front it seems Amazon are doing a Kindle app for the iPad so it will be interesting to see if it gets approved. Assuming it might not have a store feature in order to try to avoid treading on Apples toes too much but only time will tell how this one plays out.

Oh time. Not sure how long I will have to wait before I can get my mits on the ipad, not sure how long I will have to wait for a more open tablet alternative thats as polished in some key areas.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 26, 2010)

Apparently iBooks on the iPad is going to have the whole Project Gutenberg catalogue on it (probably): http://appadvice.com/appnn/2010/03/exclusive-ipad-ibooks-features-gutenberg-project-library/


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apparently iBooks on the iPad is going to have the whole Project Gutenberg catalogue on it (probably): http://appadvice.com/appnn/2010/03/exclusive-ipad-ibooks-features-gutenberg-project-library/


No doubt that'll be spun into something, like, incredible, even though smartphones and laptops have been able to access that entire library for years on end!


----------



## elbows (Mar 26, 2010)

editor said:


> No doubt that'll be spun into something, like, incredible, even though smartphones and laptops have been able to access that entire library for years on end!



Im sure youd be the first one to grind an axe if it didnt support that library though.


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im sure youd be the first one to grind an axe if it didnt support that library though.


Even for Apple, actively blocking users from accessing a free library set up to distribute public domain books would have been a bit much.


----------



## elbows (Mar 26, 2010)

I think its a question of how you get the stuff onto the device - think they have already announced that they will support the right file format to enable this content to be viewed, but the latest rumour is about whether they will include it in the ibookstore which make it easier for people to get onto their iPads. If it wasnt on the store but wasnt blocked either, it wouldnt be quite the scandal you've just mentioned.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> Apparently iBooks on the iPad is going to have the whole Project Gutenberg catalogue on it (probably): http://appadvice.com/appnn/2010/03/exclusive-ipad-ibooks-features-gutenberg-project-library/



Smart and almost a surprising move by Apple. Credit where credits due!


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Smart and almost a surprising move by Apple. Credit where credits due!


Sure seems a bit weird to giving Apple  'credit' for allowing free access to a free library that just about every single capable device on the planet can already access freely.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 26, 2010)

It's available on iPhone already, they couldn't block it on iPad.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 26, 2010)

It's not a question of blocking it, they were never going to block it, it's how easy you make it to get hold of the content in your os native reader.

It's a feature meant to differentiate it from the Kindle IMO. Apparently Amazon do have some public domain books for free download but not a huge number, and region availability isn't good; you can convert books to their format but it sounds like a right pain in the arse. The ipad supports more import formats including epub and also (it seems from this) has Gutenberg titles available for direct download through the OS native reader _anyway_. Of course, this means Amazon may open up a bit too which would be good for everyone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> It's not a question of blocking it, they were never going to block it, it's how easy you make it to get hold of the content in your os native reader.
> 
> It's a feature meant to differentiate it from the Kindle IMO. Apparently Amazon do have some public domain books for free download but not a huge number, and region availability isn't good; you can convert books to their format but it sounds like a right pain in the arse. The ipad supports more import formats including epub and also (it seems from this) has Gutenberg titles available for direct download through the OS native reader _anyway_. Of course, this means Amazon may open up a bit too which would be good for everyone.



Like I said smart move.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 26, 2010)

Also, it's an example of a broader difference which you can bet Apple will be doing their best to promote, a wide range of suppliers for the iBooks system and the ipad in general, again compared to the kindle. Why would they not have Gutenberg as a content provider on there? Hey, if you sell ebooks, sell through us, we're not a bookseller so we won't be wanting special deals.

Amazon are really going to have to up their game in the face of both full colour book downloads and also extra-content book apps - which sell by the bucketload on the iPhone already. This will all probably get quite nasty too.


----------



## paolo (Mar 26, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Amazon are really going to have to up their game in the face of both full colour book downloads and also extra-content book apps - which sell by the bucketload on the iPhone already. This will all probably get quite nasty too.



chiming in...

Full colour books yes, and also magazines, newspapers. And of course videos, if we are looking at a device as something to "see stuff on".

In comparison, vs. something like the iPad, the Kindle looks as relevant as telly that only shows (say) documentaries, but in slightly higher quality. If the documentaries are made in a certain way.

Today's dedicated eBook readers are toast. Not because of the iPad per se, but because they are book-centric.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> chiming in...
> 
> Full colour books yes, and also magazines, newspapers. And of course videos, if we are looking at a device as something to "see stuff on".
> 
> ...



I have to say even though I'm not sold on the iPad the idea of reading all those old comics [I used to love] again on the move is a nice one!


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2010)

Well Brightcove (provide video services to many large websites) have announced HTML5 video support so thats quite a step in the 'make flash unnecessary for video on the web' story.


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I have to say even though I'm not sold on the iPad the idea of reading all those old comics [I used to love] again on the move is a nice one!


Are you prepared to pay for them all over again?
Or spend money on an iPad just to view them on a lower resolution screen than your laptop?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 29, 2010)

You can download loads of comics for free in the open CBR format, just as easily as you can MP3s for example, which also play on the "ridiculously locked down by Herr Jobs control freak-o-pad" or whatever you want to call it.


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You can download loads of comics for free in the open CBR format, just as easily as you can MP3s for example, which also play on the "ridiculously locked down by Herr Jobs control freak-o-pad" or whatever you want to call it.


Does the iPad natively support that format then?

There's a paid app in the works: http://www.bitolithic.com/spilling-the-beans-on-comic-zeal-v4


----------



## Crispy (Mar 29, 2010)

There's several comic book readers on the iphone, and presumably many of them will be released for ipad as well.

EDIT: exactly, comiczeal is one of them


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 29, 2010)

What's the Windows _native_ .cbr reader, please?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 29, 2010)

dunno, not my expertise. "windows cbr reader" in google gets you started


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 29, 2010)

Yeah. All of those results are 3rd party software, though...


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> What's the Windows _native_ .cbr reader, please?


Free download here: http://comicrack.cyolito.com/
http://blogs.howtogeek.com/mysticgeek/2009/02/24/how-to-read-comic-books-on-your-computer/

Not sure why you're asking, though.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 29, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Yeah. All of those results are 3rd party software, though...


There's no 1st party  - it's an open standard, so there's loads of readers.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 29, 2010)

Rather obviously, because you asked if it would be native, when it's not native to any OS...


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Rather obviously, because you asked if it would be native, when it's not native to any OS...


Yes, that's right. 

You can read comics for free on Windows/Mac/android etc, but it seems that you'll have to buy an app to do it on the iPad.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Yes, that's right.



I know.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 29, 2010)




----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2010)

Built in USB support? An SD card slot? Don't be daft - this is Apple, with their rip-off premium pricing continuing for the iPad's peripherals. 

If you want to do something crazy like transfer an image off your camera into the iPad, that'll be $29 for the two dongle kit and two extra things to lug about/lose.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 29, 2010)

So, when're you getting yours, then?


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> So, when're you getting yours, then?


I'd gladly accept a free one as it would be fun around the house, but it represents terrible value for money for my needs. A £200 netbook would be more productive and useful.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 29, 2010)

I've been doing quite a lot of "here, lend me your lappy" type passing around of my laptop recently, and I'm sorely tempted as a replacement for that - because I'd like my laptop to last a bit, and being chucked about is not conducive (even though my mates are careful and so on).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 29, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				Badgers said:
			
		

>



Haha I like that. Can't ask the people that got mine as they're all dead...


----------



## kazza007 (Mar 30, 2010)

editor said:


> I'd gladly accept a free one as it would be fun around the house, but it represents terrible value for money for my needs. A £200 netbook would be more productive and useful.



Will you be given a freebie if you write a positive review on it?


----------



## Gromit (Mar 30, 2010)

Badgers said:


> http://www.bitterwallet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/ipad-flowchart.jpg/IMG][/QUOTE]
> 
> Lol, brilliant.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 30, 2010)

not sure if this has been posted : http://www.apple.com/ipad/guided-tours/

looking forward to getting the 32GB 3G model.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Why do you want one?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 30, 2010)

well... I spend all day sat at a desk, I then go home and sit at a desk, this will allow me to do 80% of what I do at home at my desk away from my desk.

Also, I read a hell of a lot of PDF's, this is going to be perfect for that task.

and it looks like a lot of fun


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Will you be given a freebie if you write a positive review on it?


Yes, of course. How did you know?

I'm going to write glowing reviews of a Leica M8 camera and MacBook Air next, and then maybe write a really positive article for London Luxury Apartments Weekly, followed by a 5 star review of Virgin world cruise holidays.

That's my summer sorted then.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Yes, of course. How did you know?
> 
> I'm going to write glowing reviews of a Leica M8 camera and MacBook Air next, and then maybe write a really positive article for London Luxury Apartments Weekly, followed by a 5 star review of Virgin world cruise holidays.
> 
> That's my summer sorted then.



Sounds like more fun than shouting at your computer about your phone, to be honest


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Yes, of course. How did you know?
> 
> I'm going to write glowing reviews of a Leica M8 camera and MacBook Air next, and then maybe write a really positive article for London Luxury Apartments Weekly, followed by a 5 star review of Virgin world cruise holidays.
> 
> That's my summer sorted then.



Hope they come through for ya...


----------



## maldwyn (Mar 30, 2010)

Isn't the American release this weekend? How long before we see a deconstruction on Youtube. I'm still not warming to this device, perhaps 3rd or 4th generation might get my attention.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Isn't the American release this weekend? How long before we see a deconstruction on Youtube. I'm still not warming to this device, perhaps 3rd or 4th generation might get my attention.



I'm betting 3rd gen will be the first worth buying, just like it was with the iPhone...that said if the MS Courier actually works the way the demo's show the iPad can fuck right off!


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2010)

I'm still lusting over the MS Courier device over the passive media consumption-ness of the iPad . Bring it on Microsoft (and don't fuck it up on the way!).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> I'm still lusting over the MS Courier device over the passive media consumption-ness of the iPad . Bring it on Microsoft (and don't fuck it up on the way!).



I really hope they pull it off, love the idea of having a digital notepad...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 30, 2010)

The Courier does rather fall down in one crucial area compared to the iPad mind you: existence. Real products have a significant market advantage over imaginary ones.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 30, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Courier does rather fall down in one crucial area compared to the iPad mind you: existence. Real products have a significant market advantage over imaginary ones.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Courier does rather fall down in one crucial area compared to the iPad mind you: existence. Real products have a significant market advantage over imaginary ones.


It's no less imaginery than the 'iPhone HD v4.0' or any of the other products that are talked about endlessly before they eventually declare themselves alive or a work of fantasy. 

Interestingly, a post on a Microsoft's JobsBlog appeared briefly mentioning, “the upcoming Courier digital journal”.





http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/23/microsoft-courier-existence-confirmed-on-the-companys-jobsblog/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 30, 2010)

Save us, Microsoft!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 30, 2010)

Classic - you get a write-up about the Courier by _deleting a reference to it_ 

This wouldn't have anything to do with the iPad's upcoming release of course.


----------



## tarannau (Mar 30, 2010)

Yeah, if there´s one company with a fierce commitment to open standards and not getting into restrictive deals with media corps it´s Microsoft.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 30, 2010)

And obviously, years and years of experience in producing robust, quality hardware...

"But it's NOT Apple, so I _want_ it!!"


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This wouldn't have anything to do with the iPad's upcoming release of course.


The Courier was being talked about - and demo videos released -* long* before the iPad was announced. Besides, Apple is famous for its careful leaking of info, it's what they all do.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Yeah, if there´s one company with a fierce commitment to open standards and not getting into restrictive deals with media corps it´s Microsoft.


Apple are _every bit as bad_ these days, and make no mistake, squire. 

But we've had all this a thousand times before, so let's keep the topic about the actual devices please.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2010)

This is interesting: Europe's biggest publisher Gruner + Jahr have already signed up for the iPad rival - the hideously named WePad - and it seems there's substantial interest in Germany:



> It seems that Gruner + Jahr is not the only publisher who believes in the WePad’s success. Neofonie CEO Helmut Hoffer von Ankershoffen is “happy about the first big advance orders from companies”, he wrote on the WePad Facebook site (5,709 fans). Gruner + Jahr has officially announced a plan to license the WePad’s epaper software, that Neofonie developed on their behalf, to other publishers. The WeMagazine publishing software is platform independent and apparently works with several devices or user interfaces, including the iPad and normal computers.
> 
> The underlying strategy is clear: “We insist on our sovereignity of products and contents”, Buchholz said in his Thursday’s speech, clearly hinting at recent problems. Apple removed the Stern iPhone app in November without warning from the App Store due to objections over photo galleries featuring too much nakedness. The Association of German Magazine Publishers (VDZ) warned that such intrusions might represent a move towards censorship.
> 
> German publishers are also disgruntled with Apple’s pricing policy. Buchholz said they need to “get in charge of pricing”. Apple’s regulations have the absurd side effect that an iPhone version of Germany’s most important news magazine, Der Spiegel, will cost more than the print version. Its price will soon jump to €3.99, after the €2.99 introductory offer is over, while the paper sells for €3.80.



http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/03/29/europes-biggest-publisher-embraces-the-wepad/


----------



## Gromit (Mar 30, 2010)

editor said:


> This is interesting: Europe's biggest publisher Gruner + Jahr have already signed up for the iPad rival - the hideously named WePad


 
/Awaits Samsung's MaxiPad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Courier does rather fall down in one crucial area compared to the iPad mind you: existence. Real products have a significant market advantage over imaginary ones.



Yeah hence all the caveats about it...


----------



## elbows (Mar 30, 2010)

editor said:


> This is interesting: Europe's biggest publisher Gruner + Jahr have already signed up for the iPad rival - the hideously named WePad - and it seems there's substantial interest in Germany:
> 
> 
> 
> http://eu.techcrunch.com/2010/03/29/europes-biggest-publisher-embraces-the-wepad/



Hmm its sorta hard to tell what the reality will be as the company behind the device are fairly fond of misrepresenting Apples iPad by trying to make it sound like the ipad only supports proprietary formats. 

Still apart from the dodgy name and the attempts to harness iPad publicity for themselves, its kinda interesting. If it actually comes to fruition then I suspect that aside from the things it may do better than the iPad by being more open, it will suffer some of the issues that non-ipad tablets have in the past - battery life, clunky in places.

Time will tell. There are certainly no end of issues that may arise from Apple trying to become the new platform for publishers, cant blame publishers for being a bit wary of dealing with Apple and potentially chnaging their entire industry in a way they dont like.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 30, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Yeah, if there´s one company with a fierce commitment to open standards and not getting into restrictive deals with media corps it´s Microsoft.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2010)

Could the iPad be blocked by a patent claim? Oooh, the irony!



> Elan Microelectronics filed suit against Apple with the U.S. International Trade Commission today, alleging that certain Apple products violate a multitouch patent previously awarded to the Taiwanese company. Elan in April of last year filed a related suit with the U.S. District Court in Northern California over the same patent — No. 7,274,353 — which it calls “a fundamental patent to the detection of multi-fingers that allows for any subsequent multi-finger applications to be implemented.”
> 
> By going to the ITC in addition to filing a patent infringement suit, Elan seeks to block Apple from importing its products into the U.S. that use multitouch, including the iPhone, iPod touch, MacBook, Magic Mouse and the iPad, which is due for release on April 3. Since Apple products are designed in Cupertino but assembled outside of the U.S., Elan is courting the appropriate trade commission that has authority to stop such products from reaching America’s shores. Notably, any ITC findings will be binding regardless of the patent lawsuit outcome, thanks to a loophole in U.S. patent law. Ironically, Apple is using this same strategy to try and block HTC from importing phones that Cupertino alleges violate its patents.
> 
> http://gigaom.com/2010/03/30/elan-sues-to-ban-apple-multitouch-products-in-u-s-even-the-ipad/


----------



## editor (Mar 31, 2010)

This is interesting. It looks like Android's buzz is really picking up.

Survey: Developer enthusiasm for iPad slackens as Android surges
http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallifestyle/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=3218950


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 31, 2010)

editor said:


> This is interesting. It looks like Android's buzz is really picking up.
> 
> Survey: Developer enthusiasm for iPad slackens as Android surges
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallifestyle/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=3218950



the second comment under that 'article' sums it up perfectly 

_what a pointless load of bo**ocks that article was

It means nothing to say that so many people are interested in developing for a particular platform - I would like to develop software for a platform that no one's even thought about yet that will literally make people's head explode 

See - it's totally meaningless

all it is is a bunch of nobodies riding the iPad hype by publishing some bit of rubbish not backed by any facts and peddling it as information

why on earth did you think it was worth publishing this tat?_


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> the second comment under that 'article' sums it up perfectly
> 
> _what a pointless load of bo**ocks that article was
> 
> ...


I'm more curious why you thought that comment was worth posting up here, to be honest. 

FYI: here's the PR release: http://www.prweb.com/releases/Appcelerator/MobileDeveloperSurvey1Q/prweb3814454.htm  I think it's of some interest.

Oh, and if that bloke's getting mad about this article supposedly not containing any facts, he'd better steer clear of most of the tech blogs whop are currently shovelling out endless streams of, well, Apple fluff as the hype hits truly preposterous levels. 

Just about every other 'news story' on my RSS feed is an iPad related slab of nothingness, making that survey look like an academic study in comparison.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Looks like the next iPhone will multitask, which means the ipad will too:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/31/apple-rumor-twofer-expose-like-multitasking-in-iphone-os-4-0-i/?icid=engadget-iphone-url


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like the next iPhone will multitask, which means the ipad will too:
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/31/...-in-iphone-os-4-0-i/?icid=engadget-iphone-url


That's just another rumour posing as a news story and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that the iPad will have multi-tasking when it launches. 

Still, it's indicative of the hype surrounding this product that people get excited about it _possibly_ offering what loads of other handsets and devices have had for years.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> That's just another rumour posing as a news story



You've not been posting any of those here at all of course e.g. every single thing about the Courier, particularly when there's already another thread about about Microsoft's imaginary iPad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Who cares? Until we personally have our hands on the ipad this whole thread is just speculation and conjecture! Why not just enjoy shooting the breeze..?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> That's just another rumour posing as a news story and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that the iPad will have multi-tasking when it launches.
> 
> Still, it's indicative of the hype surrounding this product that people get excited about it _possibly_ offering what loads of other handsets and devices have had for years.



I think it's just a symptom of the need for information driven, internet "news" age we're now in, rather than an iPad specific thing, no?

And as KE says, part of the fun is the speculation.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You've not been posting any of those here at all of course e.g. every single thing about the Courier.


Compared to the endless fucking onslaught of non-stories, micro non-factoids, excited non-informed squeaking and aimless speculation churning out about the iPad al week, the Courier seems _well documented_ by comparison.

I have to read most of it too because I'm supposed to be a tech writer, but I refuse to post up shite all day when I haven't got a fucking clue about tge thing - like the rest of the ;news' sites.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

As an aside, if I wanted to push my blog traffic through the roof (and pick up a nice wad of advertising revenue), I could just make up a load of fresh tosh about the iPad's UK launch, mixing it a few half-credible facts and sitting back and watching people scoop it up.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> the Courier seems _well documented_ by comparison.



iPad: Exists and about to go on sale.

Courier: Imaginary Microsoft bollocks with _absolutely nothing to support its existence_, to detract from Apple selling a gadget.

This thread: About iPads.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Courier: Imaginary Microsoft bollocks with _absolutely nothing to support its existence_, to detract from Apple selling a gadget.


Except the Courier videos were released _way before_ the iPad was announced - or even heard of.

Edit: oh, and for the record, the Courier was brought up by Pie 1 on the first few page of this thread.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2010)

Except that they don't show any sort of device at all. They're UI mockups. _There is no Courier_.







hey that's so much better than the iPad it has a USB port too

also, _there is already a whole thread about the Courier_


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Except that they don't show any sort of device at all. They're UI mockups. _There is no Courier_.


_There was no iPad_ when this thread started too!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				stupid dogbot said:
			
		

> I think it's just a symptom of the need for information driven, internet "news" age we're now in, rather than an iPad specific thing, no?
> 
> And as KE says, part of the fun is the speculation.



People be getting way too hot under the collar about this shit yo!


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> also, _there is already a whole thread about the Courier_


There is indeed. And you mentioned the iPad in that too!  

Seems a bit daft not to expect both tablet devices to be discussed seeing as they're two similar, but different approaches.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> _There was no iPad_ when this thread started too!



well obviously that makes it fine to fill the whole thing with imaginary Microsoft marketing which has nothing to do with the iPad apart from being designed to spoiler its release - after all it's not as if there is one now, with clearly defined hardware and software, which is going to be around in a month or two


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> well obviously that makes it fine to fill the whole thing with imaginary Microsoft marketing which has nothing to do with the iPad apart from being designed to spoiler its release


I *really* don't believe that the Courier has been marketed as a 'spoiler' for the iPad launch. Honestly. If it was, surely they'd be be releasing fresh, juicy product videos and dropping hints all over the place? 

In reality, there's barely been a peep out of Micosoft for ages, and considering the huge interest there is in the Courier, they'd have no problem attracting column inches for even a short clip or 'leaked' document.

I don't really think they're chasing the same market either: the iPad is more of a passive entertainment consumption device, whereas the Courier appears to be more focused on being a personal journal with a focus on  creating content. 

And to get right back on topic, it's funny that the one iPad game that got me excited today was one that lets you play chess and card games on:







http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/game-table-chess-and-card-game-simulator-for-ipad/


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> As an aside, if I wanted to push my blog traffic through the roof (and pick up a nice wad of advertising revenue), I could just make up a load of fresh tosh about the iPad's UK launch, mixing it a few half-credible facts and sitting back and watching people scoop it up.



what the devil are you going on about?

the iPad is _real_, it will be released in the USA on Saturday, and in many other countries the end of April.

And according to legit sources the iPhone 4.0 OS will support MT.

people are obviously getting geared up for this device being released around the world over the next few weeks. 



> According to a reliable source, Apple Germany had ordered only 75,000 iPads. Against all their predictions, they got 250,000 orders.



for a tech writer you have a huge 'micro' chip on your shoulder.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> what the devil are you going on about?
> 
> the iPad is _real_, it will be released in the USA on Saturday, and in many other countries the end of April.


Yes, of course it is, but the bit you seem _singularly unable to comprehend_ is that many of the articles being published ahead of the iPad's launch have little basis in fact. They're simply shunted out to drive up traffic and advertising revenue. 


sunnysidedown said:


> And according to legit sources the iPhone 4.0 OS will support MT.


Not sure what a "legit source" is - Apple have either announced it or they haven't - but I've never made  claims about whether the 4.0 OS will have MT or not, although I'd guess that it looks rather likely.





sunnysidedown said:


> for a tech writer you have a huge 'micro' chip on your  shoulder.


Actually, I'm rather more responsible than quite a few, and try to refrain from endlessly speculating (although sometimes it's an inevitable part of the job).

Have you any idea how many Apple pre-launch "reliable sources" later turn out to have spouted a load of codswallop? No, I guess not.


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Here. Here's a collection of "reliable sources":







http://i.engadget.com/2010/01/26/the-apple-tablet-a-complete-history-supposedly/


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 1, 2010)

^ they are not "reliable sources" - they are rumors.

unlike you i don't read every rumor about apple on the web...

if I want rumors I go to macrumors.com

if I want something more reliable, I go to daringfireball.net

that's it.

you seem somewhat obsessed though...


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## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Add 'makes editor a crushing bore' to the list of downsides of Apple.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				elbows said:
			
		

> Add 'makes editor a crushing bore' to the list of downsides of Apple.



Lol he is almost a little OCD when it comes to Apple!


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Well in the past Ive defended his right to have whatever opinion he wants about Apple and to talk about it, and I stick by that. Its just become a little too much for me right now in terms of quantity, and the desire for successful alternatives to emerge & succeed has become tinged with an air of desperation.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

elbows said:


> Its just become a little too much for me right now in terms of quantity, and the desire for successful alternatives to emerge & succeed has become tinged with an air of desperation.


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Dont worry, its the only day you'll have to react like that to my posts, I hope. The day your posts flip my tripswitch will not likely come again.


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## Kanda (Apr 1, 2010)

Some early reviews:



> *David Pogue / New York Times*
> 
> Pogue attacks the iPad from two different perspectives: techie and "everyone else". If you're a techie, Pogue says that a laptop will do more for less money. But, if you like the concept of the iPad, "you'll love the machine". Pogue did test the iPad's battery life and found it could play movies continuously for over 12 hours.
> 
> ...



From Macrumors.


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## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Very strange to hear of a devices battery life exceeding the manufacturers claims - I suspect the devil will turn out to be in the detail on this so I will take it with a pinch of salt for now.

I think the lack of flash is going to be a lot more painful than its been on the iphone, as in other regards the ipad should be really excellent for browsing the web, magnifying the lack of flash somewhat. Im looking forward to Apple devices causing the reduction in use of flash on the web, but its going to be such a pain in the bum in the meantime.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 1, 2010)

if only...


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

elbows said:


> I think the lack of flash is going to be a lot more painful than its been on the iphone, as in other regards the ipad should be really excellent for browsing the web, magnifying the lack of flash somewhat. Im looking forward to Apple devices causing the reduction in use of flash on the web, but its going to be such a pain in the bum in the meantime.


I'm not sure that's going to be happening at the speed Apple will like: Google have just announced that Flash will come built in to their next Chrome browser. 

http://www.wirefresh.com/google-chrome-to-offer-built-in-flash-support-apple-quietly-fumes/


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

apple already include flash with OSX, it's not a massively important move IMO. In two years time, nearly all web video will be html5 h.264, and I'm willing to put money on that


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## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> apple already include flash with OSX, it's not a massively important move IMO. In two years time, nearly all web video will be html5 h.264, and I'm willing to put money on that



100 quid says your wrong, I'm serious.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 1, 2010)

grit said:


> 100 quid says your wrong, I'm serious.



are you saying that the majority of websites containing video in 2 years time will still only provide flash versions of that video, and not offer html5/h.264 as an option?


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## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> are you saying that the majority of websites containing video in 2 years time will still only provide flash versions of that video, and not offer html5/h.264 as an option?



Nope, the quote was "In two years time, nearly all web video will be html5 h.264, and I'm willing to put money on that"

which is what I think is incorrect. Yes some sites may provide HTML 5 options but its not going to be the majority.


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## magneze (Apr 1, 2010)

Depends how you measure "nearly all web video". For example, I'd hazard a guess that a huge proportion of web video _usage_ is via YouTube and Google already have HTML5/H264 betas of that running. However, if we're talking about "nearly all web video websites" then I dunno how that would even be measured.


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

hmm, requires clarification then

How about "The top 20 video-hosting websites will, by April 2012, support htlm5 video for their content"


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Well, I'm not going to rewrite any of the Flash content on this site into HTML5/H264*, and I doubt it many smaller sites will bother either. Of course, if they're writing new content...

(*unless a free, super-easy converter is released).


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

do you have any flash video on urban? 
non-video uses for flash don't really bother me personally. can't remember the last time I used it ofr such a thing


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> do you have any flash video on urban?


Not video, but Flash games.


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## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> do you have any flash video on urban?
> non-video uses for flash don't really bother me personally. can't remember the last time I used it ofr such a thing



Why does using flash to deliver video bother you?


----------



## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> hmm, requires clarification then
> 
> How about "The top 20 video-hosting websites will, by April 2012, support htlm5 video for their content"



All of their content?


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

grit said:


> Why does using flash to deliver video bother you?


Because when I'm using my ipod touch to browse the internet, I'd like to be able to view videos



grit said:


> All of their content?


ooooh 
I'll say "the majority of" with a Bonus Ball for "all of"


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## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Because when I'm using my ipod touch to browse the internet, I'd like to be able to view videos
> 
> 
> ooooh
> I'll say "the majority of" with a Bonus Ball for "all of"



Thats an issue with the touch, not using flash to deliver video to be fair. In summary, I think flash will remain as the default for delivering video content. Sure ffs we still have not gotten people off IE6 yet


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

oh flash will be around - I'm not suggesting that it will be directly replaced. the two will exist side-by-side


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Ultimate Apple fanboy Stephen Fry has wowed the world by uploading the all-important 'unboxing' video - but he sounds too awestruck to speak!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2010/apr/01/stephen-fry-apple-ipad


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> oh flash will be around - I'm not suggesting that it will be directly replaced. the two will exist side-by-side



exactly - and the choice between using a (on a mac at least) buggy plug-in to view video, or this (obviously iPhones & iPads need not worry about the former choice).


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## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> exactly - and the choice between using a (on a mac at least) buggy plug-in to view video, or this (obviously iPhones & iPads need not worry about the former choice).



whats a buggy plug in?


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

grit said:


> whats a buggy plug in?


flash on OSX


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> flash on OSX


Presumably it'll become less iffy on future Mac OS versions of Chrome.

http://mac.blorge.com/2010/03/31/google-sides-with-adobe-in-flash-war/


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Presumably it'll become less iffy on future Mac OS versions of Chrome.
> 
> http://mac.blorge.com/2010/03/31/google-sides-with-adobe-in-flash-war/


but that just bundles adobe's flash plugin. it's not some wonderful googles-own flash, just the same old.


----------



## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> flash on OSX



Um, can you give an example of the issues with the flash implementation on OSX?????

E2A: I dont have any Mac boxes but I find it really hard to believe that flash is not stable on it.


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

grit said:


> Um, can you give an example of the issues with the flash implementation on OSX?????
> 
> E2A: I dont have any Mac boxes but I find it really hard to believe that flash is not stable on it.


Flash is notoriously less reliable and less efficient on OSX than it is on windows. I have only anecdotal evidence for it myself, though.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> but that just bundles adobe's flash plugin. it's not some wonderful googles-own flash, just the same old.





> According to a blog post, Google plans to work with Adobe to make Flash Player work with Chrome’s sandboxing security feature. This would restrict the ability of any malicious Flash code to interfere with the rest of your computer.


http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/soft...chrome-for-safer-and-more-stable-web-browsing


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## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/soft...chrome-for-safer-and-more-stable-web-browsing


So? That's not addressing the stability and efficiency issues?
Chrome already has threading for each tab, to avoid plugins (flash) taking down the whole browser. That's great. This moves adds extra security. That's also great.


----------



## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/soft...chrome-for-safer-and-more-stable-web-browsing



If there are implementation issues such as Crispy is suggesting, those changes will have no issues at all as all they address is Chrome's handling, not the flash code.


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2010)

Safari was recently updated to sandbox Flash so it couldn't take down the whole browser, which it used to have an appalling tendency to do. Now, you just see an "Adobe Flash Plugin has unexpectedly quit" dialog. While Safari is not the world's most non-crashy browser by any means, I can tell you that Flash is _definitely_ the biggest culprit for freezes and crashes in my experience. It also takes a noticeable time to start up (my heart sinks when I open a page and Safari starts to beachball - it means that page has some Flash content that I didn't expect and almost certainly don't want) and has poor performance.

Some of this I think is Adobe and Apple fighting. Adobe want Flash to have very low-level access to hardware and functions and almost be a little OS of its own. Apple absolutely does not want anything doing that even in OS X, let alone on the iPhone.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 1, 2010)

testing...does this work?

Sent from my iPad


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Some of this I think is Adobe and Apple fighting. Adobe want Flash to have very low-level access to hardware and functions and almost be a little OS of its own. Apple absolutely does not want anything doing that even in OS X, let alone on the iPhone.


Isn't it also because Flash lets users run games and fully fledged apps within the browser, and Apple isn't so keen on the competition?



> Apple's problem with Flash is competition. The company doesn't want any. Hence the anti-Flash campaign now under way. The Flash slandering will only increase as Jobs courts more content publishers for iPad and Flash becomes widely available on every other mobile device.


http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/a...is-mobile-applications-competition/1266602742


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2010)

No, not really, I would say. Apple is not a games company and makes little to no money from the sale of games, and web flash games would not be a significant threat to natively compiled games anyway (slow to load on 3G, poor performance on mobile devices). It's an OS architecture decision; Apple has always quite clearly stated that it wants to keep full control over the basic elements. There are some good pieces on Daring Fireball about the issue - I'll look them up when I get home.


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## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, not really. Apple is not a games company and makes little to no money from the sale of games, and web flash games would not be a significant threat to natively compiled games anyway (slow to load on 3G, poor performance on mobile devices). .


Are you sure? I'd imagine they're making an _absolute mint_ from their juicy cut of the ten zillion games downloaded onto iPhones.

I know Apple claim not to make money from it, but that sounds a bit weird to me, as this poster commentated:



> So it's a business that doesn't have to hold any inventory, where the delivery costs are minimal, that has a direct channel through to all it's highly locked-in customers and doesn't have to worry about clients not paying. For an operation like that to NOT make money must be quite hard. Especially when, a lot of the time, they simply act as a middleman between the _real_ talent of the app. developers and the punters - just taking their rather high percentage off the top.
> 
> From the standpoint of a casual observer that looks a lot like eBay, though maybe without the same volume of trade - but with a much greater rake. So if eBay can make the odd $billion or 10 from online sales of other people's stuff it seems odd that shiny old Apple can't do the same. Maybe they just aren't very good at it.
> 
> http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2010/01/26/app_store/


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## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's an OS architecture decision



This. end of.


----------



## magneze (Apr 1, 2010)

TBH Flash isn't exactly stable on Windows or Linux.


----------



## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

magneze said:


> TBH Flash isn't exactly stable on Windows or Linux.



WTF? Of course it is dont be silly.


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2010)

This is a good piece on Flash and Apple: http://daringfireball.net/2010/01/apple_adobe_flash


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## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Oh we are doing the full on flash debate again, thought we had already done this to death but I dont mind repeating myself endlessly  so here goes...

I think the reason Apple dont go for flash on these mobile devices is just about every reason anyone can think of.

Performance, multitouch, battery, security, protecting their app-store revenue, getting developers to use the Apple developers tools (& buy mac computers as a result), and possibly some previous souring of the relationship between Apple and Adobe. I think its fair to have mixed feelings about some of these explanations, but again it comes down to Apple thinking that their winning formula is to craft the user experience to a very specific design, and whilst many users could be happy with flash even if it didnt perform amazingly well, anything better than nothing, thats not how Apple tend to work.

Whatever Adobe claim, the Flash experience on mobile devices up till very recently has been less than wonderful. Im slightly out of date but I suspect this is not really going to change until the feature-full version of flash for mobile devices becomes mature. One of the good things that come come from Apples stance is if it encourages others to do better.

Have Adobe got a decent multitouch implementation for flash yet?

From previous posts it should be clear that I want the reliance on flash for browser-based video to erode, and I believe it will because in many instances the transition is easy. The html5 video alternative is not without its teething problems and flaws, but it can provide a better user experience on certain devices. Its not at all hard to imagine that the transition will for many people be almost un-noticable, with sites simply serving the h264 video via html5 for some browsers/devices, and wrapping the same h264 video in flash for others. Its not very hard for sites to do this. Where it is trickier is with the addons they have put in their flash video players, eg adverts or additional functionality. This can mostly also be done with html5 & javascript but it will take a little while for equivalent functionality to be reengineered.

Games and other stuff will be much harder, and whilst browser technologies such as WebGL will probably be better for games than flash is, given time, the development tools and services to make WebGL, html5, canvas & javascript a joy for developers of all levels are not with us yet by a long-shot. There are also quite a lot of flash developers out there who arent going to be able to transition to alternatives without quite a learning curve, even once some of the alternative tech has matured. Adobe have provided a way for them to turn their existing flash games into native iphone apps but this does not help the 'flash game/app embedded in a web page' on devices like the ipad at all.

Its a shame Microsoft couldnt help themselves but to try to launch their own flash alternative, silverlight, and some pretty rich development tools to author that stuff. It doesnt go down well in an age where Microsoft dont garner much trust, and lots of people like cross-platform web standards. So the only useful purpose Silverlight ends up serving is to give developers who are already well versed in various microsoft (& other) languages/technologies a way to develop stuff on the client-side web, and its overcome some of the issues that sites that serve protected & nonprotected video in wmv format had with working on non-windows platforms. Its still been a failure overall, the wrong era to do it in, but time will tell if they get anywhere with silverlight by making it fairly central to Windows Phone 7. Personally Id rather Microsoft had tried to copy Google than Apple in various key ways relating to standards and control freakery, but its impossible to say which approach will successfully help them to reinvent themselves and deliver really good products. 

If I had the resources and the skill I would be looking at starting to make rich development tools that work in a way similar to Flash authoring software & Microsoft Expression Blend, but deliver results that use html5/css/js/canvas/webGL. This is far easier said than done at this stage, likely we will get there in the end but it could be a very long road.

My original reason for disliking flash was the large amount of electricity that is wasted by inefficient flash video playback. Adobe have made it plenty more efficient since I first developed this strong opinion, so its not quite the issue it was, and even on the mobile if Adobe can work with device/OS manufacturers on the right level then flash should be able to harness the video decoding chips present in many smartphones, as they now do to an extent with GPUs on the desktop. Still room for improvement in this regard though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Christ alive Apple threads have become boring as fuck these days...


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Oh and the flash issue is already creating lots of work for Apple when it comes to the iPad, because they are feeling that they have to wave around a list of high-profile websites that are going to work on the ipad OK, mostly because they've managed to get the companies behind the sites to develop versions that work fine on the ipad by ditching flash for video.

Its one of the things Apple have done to promote certain standards (the other being h264 in a .mp4 wrapper) which Im really happy about, regardless of their motives. It is harming flash/Adobe, to what extent we wont know for some time. It certainly undoes some of the massive rise in flash use that the video-in-the-browser era gifted to Adobe. Adobe also shot themselves in the foot by enabling flash to play h264 video in the first place, because many videos of recent years have been done in h264 and flash is just a wrapper that can be discarded without having to reencode all the videos. Still they would have eventually ended up in woe if they had chosen not to support h264 as well, no easy way for them to avoid serious threats from rival tech.

Anyway my point was that its costing Apple effort and customers by not having flash, so they must be really convinced that it will yield them many benefits in the grand scheme of things. I assume they will probably succeed with this strategy, although its too early to completely rule out them being forced to change their flash stance one day if the device markets change a lot from where they are today.

In addition to the reasons for Apples flash stance that I speculated on previously, by getting developers to buy macs & use their dev tools & language to write native iphone & ipad apps, they are encouraging some more developers to start looking at writing apps for the mac as well, which of course Apple hope to profit from via hardware sales & also a possible app-store model for desktop/laptop OS's one day (shudder).


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## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Christ alive Apple threads have become boring as fuck these days...



Were they ever much different? I write tedious long posts, most of the issues have been done to death, Apple gets far too much attention in general, the pace of change cannot be fast enough to ensure a steady ability to say something original.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				elbows said:
			
		

> Were they ever much different? I write tedious long posts, most of the issues have been done to death, Apple gets far too much attention in general, the pace of change cannot keep up with our pace of talking a subject to death.



They used to be speculative fun...now it's tedious same old same old....


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## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Well there isnt too much to speculate about really is there, compared to the days before the iphone was first launched where there were so many unknowns.

Its understandable that Apple have reached this stage, whats sad for me is that there isnt more signs of competitors innovating in ways that can really get the speculative juices flowing. I suppose it happens sometimes, but then you get no end of people complaining that its all just speculation, vapourware etc.

In terms of the progress of computer technology reaching exciting new highs, I feel pretty spoilt really, Im not really moaning about lulls, if anything I look forward to more maturity of platforms and hope that resource & financial reality might actually get us to make better use of existing equipment rather than throwing it away so quickly.

Progress that will excite me in the near future is if the ipad is a roaring success that rubs off onto the tablet form in general, microsofts project natal, and hopefully some other stuff that isnt showing on my radar yet.


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## Sunray (Apr 2, 2010)

The more is read about this the more I am left with the feeling the Mobile OSX 4.0 is behind schedule and its what was intended to be used with the iPad, 3.2 is just the dev version made release because 4.0 isn't ready but the hardware is ready.  3.2 is good enough to launch the iPad with and get the coverage and they will launch version 4 to even more free advertising in a few months time.

I think there will be some significant changes to the system with OS4.  1GHz cpu is a bit of a waste and slightly pointless if it can't multi-task.


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

Curiously, New York Times reviewer  David Pouge, has done two separate reviews – one for techies, and another one for regular folks. 



> There’s an e-book reader app, but it’s not going to rescue the newspaper and book industries. The selection is puny (60,000 titles for now). You can’t read well in direct sunlight. At 1.5 pounds, the iPad gets heavy in your hand after awhile (the Kindle is 10 ounces). And you can’t read books from the Apple bookstore on any other machine — not even a Mac or iPhone”.
> 
> When the iPad is upright, typing on the on-screen keyboard is a horrible experience; when the iPad is turned 90 degrees, the keyboard is just barely usable (because it’s bigger). A keyboard dock will be available in April, but then you’re carting around two pieces”. .


Ad in his second, 'consumer' review:


> The simple act of making the multi touch screen bigger changes the whole experience. Maps become real maps, like the paper ones. Scrabble shows the whole board, without your having to zoom in and out. You see your e-mail inbox and the open message simultaneously”.
> 
> The new iBooks e-reader app is filled with endearing grace notes. For example, when you turn a page, the animated page edge actually follows your finger’s position and speed as it curls, just like a paper page. Font, size and brightness controls appear when you tap. Tap a word to get a dictionary definition, bookmark your spot or look it up on Google or Wikipedia. There’s even a rotation-lock switch on the edge of the iPad so you can read in bed on your side without fear that the image will rotate”.
> 
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/mixed-reviews-for-the-apple-ipad/112580-11.html


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## gabi (Apr 2, 2010)

It's worthwhile pointing out that the other major review so far (leaving aside stephen fucking fry's frankly toe-curling effort in Time mag) was overwhelmingly positive... 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304252704575155982711410678.html

And in fact contradicts a lot of what the NYT guy says.


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> It's worthwhile pointing out that the other major review so far (leaving aside stephen fucking fry's frankly toe-curling effort in Time mag) was overwhelmingly positive...
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304252704575155982711410678.html
> 
> And in fact contradicts a lot of what the NYT guy says.


Almost all of the ones I've seen have been positive, but many fall short of being 'overwhelmingly positive.' E.g. the Telegraph's:


> But in several crucial areas, the iPad falls short of the functionality that would have made this more than just a large iPod touch. The lack of Flash support is a major issue; the iPad's big screen is designed to make the best of multimedia content and the full-screen browsing experience, but the sight of little blue squares dotted around web pages where embedded video should have been just makes you feel like you're being short-changed.
> 
> The iPad's inability to multi-task could also severely hamper its appeal. It's being pitched as a portable device that you could kick back and use on the sofa at home, but you can't listen to your Spotify playlists at the same time as writing an email, or browse the web while using an instant-messaging app to chat with friends. It's one or other, just as it is on the iPhone and iPod touch, but for the extra money you're paying for the iPad, you expect something more akin to a laptop computing experience...
> 
> ...


I think the Telegraph review is closest to what I'm currently thinking (although when I get to touch the thing I may fall hopelessly in love and instantly buy one).


----------



## gabi (Apr 2, 2010)

It is indeed a giant iPod touch... which is not a bad thing... I actually do most of my browsing these days on my iPod, even at home, where i have a desktop... I really only use that for design work and to watch football these days. 

Surely they'll sort out the flash and multi-tasking things for the second version. And put a fucking camera on it so I can skype wherever i am. Those are the things that are stopping me buyin one first up. Hope they dont fuck around too long in sorting those issues.


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## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

I don't think you'll be getting a camera any time soon (that'll be the big amazing revolutionary feature to entice your wallet out for v2), but multi-tasking can't be far off. 

If I had the spare cash, I could certainly see how an iPad would be a nice thing to have around the house.


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## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

May I point people in the direction of this post I made back in *July 2008. *


editor said:


> I reckon Apple is going to surprise everyone and  launch a netbook/e-Reader/web/email tablet device with full wireless  syncing and downloading of newspapers, books, movies and music files  through a revamped iTunes.
> 
> It'll have a loooong battery life, look stylish, feature an onscreen  keyboard (al la iPhone) with optional hardware keyboard and piss all  over the great-idea-but-executed-badly Kindle reader.
> 
> And they'll clean up the market.


There were doubters. But I was spot on!

I am the tech seer!

*smug


----------



## mitochondria (Apr 2, 2010)

no multitasking, no fun. my nokia e72 can multitask to some degree so it is just lame job by apple. 

they will hit back with ipad pro once fanboys' wallets have been taxed.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

So negatives so far are no Flash - *yawn*
and no Multitasking - see OS 4.0


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## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> So negatives so far are no Flash - *yawn*
> and no Multitasking - see OS 4.0


There's a few more than that:

No camera.
No SD card
Virtual keyboard
No USB slots
No upgradeable memory
No webcam
Non replaceable battery
Heavier than the Kindle 
No tabs in Safari
No GPS in wi-fi version
Hard to read in sunlight
Expensive in comparison to better spec'd laptop (although that's clearly not the point of this device)

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2010/04/01/neat-complete-list-positives-negatives-ipad-handson-reviews/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 2, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

A tablet with a hardware keyboard would be a bit odd no?

Also how how many tablets currently on the market have everything listed above..?


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> A tablet with a hardware keyboard would be a bit odd no?


I dunno. I've seen various mock ups of tablets with fold out/slide out keyboards that looked interesting. I think having to lug around another keyboard is full of fail though - and I speak as someone who used to use a IR fold out keyboard with my old Sony TH55 PDA.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 2, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> A tablet with a hardware keyboard would be a bit odd no?
> 
> Also how how many tablets currently on the market have everything listed above..?



If it had usb you could optionaly plug one in.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

editor said:


> There's a few more than that:
> 
> No camera.
> No SD card
> ...



jesus christ...


No slide out mirror for chopping lines
No firewire port
No PCMCIA port
No dual monitor option
No velcro on the back for sticking it to bus seat in front of you while your sitting on the bus.
No upgradable drive

btw, no camera? you want to take fucking pictures with this thing?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> If it had usb you could optionaly plug one in.



there is both USB & SD card adapters


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 2, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> I dunno. I've seen various mock ups of tablets with fold out/slide out keyboards that looked interesting. I think having to lug around another keyboard is full of fail though - and I speak as someone who used to use a IR fold out keyboard with my old Sony TH55 PDA.



Maybe I misunderstand but I thought a tablet was a clean surface you write/interact with without mouse or keyboard?


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> btw, no camera? you want to take fucking pictures with this thing?


Why not? Just about everything else comes with a built in camera (phones, netbooks, laptops) and they sure are handy things. That's why just about everything else comes with one, you see.

Dave Letterman's take on the iPad: http://mashable.com/2010/04/01/letterman-ipad/


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Maybe I misunderstand but I thought a tablet was a clean surface you write/interact with without mouse or keyboard?


I don't believe that definition actually exists for electronic devices any more than a digital camera is defined as a thing for taking pictures on, and not video/sound etc.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

editor said:


> Why not? Just about everything else comes with a built in camera (phones, netbooks, laptops) and they sure are handy things. That's why just about everything else comes with one, you see.



well if everything else comes with one, then that's a good enough reason to me not to include one on the iPad - ludicrous idea.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

editor said:


> I don't believe that definition actually exists for electronic devices any more than a digital camera is defined as a thing for taking pictures on, and not video/sound etc.



once again you are missing _the whole point_ of this thing - honestly, give it up and go and find something that will bring you some semblance of happiness - you've wasted far too much time on something that will never bring you satisfaction.


----------



## gabi (Apr 2, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> well if everything else comes with one, then that's a good enough reason to me not to include one on the iPad - ludicrous idea.



Um, yes, both a camera *and* a webcam are key to its success imo.

I'd use the cam for design work all the time and a webcam would let me sit in bed and vid skype my friends


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> Um, yes, both a camera *and* a webcam are key to its success imo.
> 
> I'd use the cam for design work all the time and a webcam would let me sit in bed and vid skype my friends



a webcam yes, but a camera? crazy talk.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

^ btw, key to it's success?? *lol*


----------



## gabi (Apr 2, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> ^ btw, key to it's success?? *lol*



Given that initially it will undoubtedly be aimed at the creative industries then, yes, i think it is pretty important... i find it amusing that you find this notion so amusing


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> *Given that initially it will undoubtedly be aimed at the creative industries* then, yes, i think it is pretty important...



it's not.



gabi said:


> i find it amusing that you find this notion so amusing


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 2, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> a camera? crazy talk.



Why 
I'm a photographer & my props stylist & I can spend an whole day selecting stuff for a particular shoot & taking dozens of photo's of items to send to clients for approval etc. 
That task would be perfectly suited to an iPad with a camera.


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> well if everything else comes with one, then that's a good enough reason to me not to include one on the iPad - ludicrous idea.


So how do you get a picture of something onto your iPad and email it to someone?  Or maybe snap a mag article or something you want to remember? Any ideas?


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

Here's a really interesting article from a BoingBoing writer: 
http://gizmodo.com/5508130/why-i-wont-buy-an-ipad-and-think-you-shouldnt-either



> *Incumbents made bad revolutionaries
> 
> ...*So what does Marvel do to "enhance" its comics? They take away the right to give, sell or loan your comics. What an improvement. Way to take the joyous, marvellous sharing and bonding experience of comic reading and turn it into a passive, lonely undertaking that isolates, rather than unites. Nice one, Misney.





> *Wal-Martization of the software channel*
> And let's look at the iStore. For a company whose CEO professes a hatred of DRM, Apple sure has made DRM its alpha and omega. Having gotten into business with the two industries that most believe that you shouldn't be able to modify your hardware, load your own software on it, write software for it, override instructions given to it by the mothership (the entertainment industry and the phone companies), Apple has defined its business around these principles. It uses DRM to control what can run on your devices, which means that Apple's customers can't take their "iContent" with them to competing devices, and Apple developers can't sell on their own terms.
> 
> The iStore lock-in doesn't make life better for Apple's customers or Apple's developers. As an adult, I want to be able to choose whose stuff I buy and whom I trust to evaluate that stuff. I don't want my universe of apps constrained to the stuff that the Cupertino Politburo decides to allow for its platform. And as a copyright holder and creator, I don't want a single, Wal-Mart-like channel that controls access to my audience and dictates what is and is not acceptable material for me to create. The last time I posted about this, we got a string of apologies for Apple's abusive contractual terms for developers, but the best one was, "Did you think that access to a platform where you can make a fortune would come without strings attached?" I read it in Don Corleone's voice and it sounded just right. Of course I believe in a market where competition can take place without bending my knee to a company that has erected a drawbridge between me and my customers!





> *Gadgets come and gadgets go*
> The iPad you buy today will be e-waste in a  year or two (less, if you decide not to pay to have the battery changed  for you). The real issue isn't the capabilities of the piece of plastic  you unwrap today, but the technical and social infrastructure that  accompanies it.
> If you want to live in the creative universe where anyone with a cool  idea can make it and give it to you to run on your hardware, the iPad  isn't for you.
> If you want to live in the fair world where you get to keep (or give  away) the stuff you buy, the iPad isn't for you.
> If you want to write code for a platform where the only thing that  determines whether you're going to succeed with it is whether your  audience loves it, the iPad isn't for you.


----------



## hendo (Apr 2, 2010)

I think that piece is brilliant. But in fairness there's nothing stopping anyone getting a proper computer, the ipad is a gadget at the end of the day. 
And if Doctorow is right something this DRMed will die a death.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 2, 2010)

And Gizmodo do a response. Of course, it was about as likely that Cory would buy an iPad as it was that Richard Stallman would (or that Stephen Fry wouldn't - well, he didn't buy his, but he'll probably buy another one, he has four iPhones after all).

I'm even sicker of this whole thing now to be honest. It's such easy copy, with both fanboys and haters taking the predictions about how it's "the future of computing" as a premise (which makes me laugh), and every piece is always followed by the same stupid comments too. I think this post by Jason Kottke is possibly the best commentary.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 2, 2010)

editor said:


> So how do you get a picture of something onto your iPad and email it to someone?  Or maybe snap a mag article or something you want to remember? Any ideas?



Simple, instead if owing an iPad you own a fully fledged laptop.  

One is for consumers and the other is for people doing work creating stuff for the consumers to use on the iPad.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 2, 2010)

You can quite easily create stuff on an iPad. You can't take a picture of something with it (or scan a document or make hard copies or play DVDs or etc etc).


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Why
> I'm a photographer & my props stylist & I can spend an whole day selecting stuff for a particular shoot & taking dozens of photo's of items to send to clients for approval etc.
> That task would be perfectly suited to an iPad with a camera.



just plug your 'proper' camera into the iPad with the USB adapter...

you honestly want to hold up the iPad and take pictures with it?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Simple, instead if owing an iPad you own a fully fledged laptop.
> 
> One is for consumers and the other is for people doing work creating stuff for the consumers to use on the iPad.



you take pictures with a laptop? 

a webcam on the iPad would be a good move, if you want to take 'pictures' with that then fair enough - but a dedicated camera would be daft.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 2, 2010)

editor said:


> So how do you get a picture of something onto your iPad and email it to someone?  Or maybe snap a mag article or something you want to remember? Any ideas?









and don't whine on about having to carry extra stuff... the thought of holding up an iPad to take a picture is ridiculous.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 3, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's a really interesting article from a BoingBoing writer:
> http://gizmodo.com/5508130/why-i-wont-buy-an-ipad-and-think-you-shouldnt-either




big fucking yawn (again)

you keep trotting out the same tired crap - more _interesting_ articles that do nothing more than exaggerate, distort and spoon on a large dollop of paranoia...

as I've mentioned above, leave this stuff alone or you'll be heading off to the funny farm - your obsession is getting OTT.

For those interested in what our Apple fascist overlords have so far allowed us access to, here's a list of some of the good stuff:

link


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 3, 2010)

word just in... the fascists have just approved Amazon's Kindle application for the iPad - allowing direct competition with Apples own iBooks.

Standards must be slipping.


----------



## Zabo (Apr 3, 2010)

*Save your pennies and buy the new i-pad dock to use with your i-phone or even your Newton!* 








*Also Available In Apple Silver and Lemon*


----------



## Sunray (Apr 3, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> you take pictures with a laptop?
> 
> a webcam on the iPad would be a good move, if you want to take 'pictures' with that then fair enough - but a dedicated camera would be daft.



No for proper work, a high quality DSLR connected to a laptop.  

Quite why anyone would want to use a lowly powered tablet netbook to do more than its advertised as doing is beyond me.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 3, 2010)

And so the desperate queueing begins...



> Cheline Lundin camps out Friday at the Michigan Avenue Apple Store, eager to be the first person in Chicago to take home an iPad


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 3, 2010)

St. Louis


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

It's like those people that wait all night for the Harrods sale, or for the opening day of a game or movie. Odd but I bet they enjoy themselves so is it really a big deal?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 3, 2010)

Palo Alto (California)


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 3, 2010)

NYC


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 3, 2010)

Check out this eager chap who's been waiting since *Wednesday*! 

There's video  too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2010)

If anyone is interested in the guts of the thing, these chaps are liveblogging a "first teardown": http://www.powerbookmedic.com/wordpress/2010/04/03/ipad-teardown-live-blog


----------



## sumimasen (Apr 3, 2010)

ARGH THE 'iFIVE' REARS ITS UGLY HEAD AGAIN!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Delete! The Ed will have a cardiac arrest if he sees that!!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2010)

Fake Steve Jobs on the iPad launch:


> ...Some pundits have posed the question: Why do anyone need this thing? Indeed, even those of you are lining up and standing outside stores may be wondering, Why am I doing this? Why am I lining up like a zombie for an expensive piece of consumer electronics, a product for which there is no shortage and which, let’s face it, nobody really needs? Back in the early days of our design process, Jonny Ive came in to see me and we spent a long time trying to decide where on Mazlow’s triangle this product would sit. Because we knew if we couldn’t be way up above the very top of that pyramid, floating above it, totally outside the needs it describes, then this wouldn’t be a product we wanted to make. Some of our early iterations, in fact, had to be tossed out because when we looked at them we realized that parts of them were too, well, necessary. Don’t get me wrong. That’s fine for other companies. It’s just not what we do here at Apple.
> 
> But let’s get back to you people who are waiting in line. I mean it’s not like you’re in Bolivia and there’s just been an earthquake and you need to line up to get food and clean water. It’s not like you’ve time-traveled back into the Depression and you’re waiting in line at a soup kitchen. And yet, in fact, that’s exactly what you’re doing. Spiritually speaking, we are living in the Great Depression, and you are waiting in line for sustenance. We, all of us, are experiencing the world that Deleuze and Guattari described so presciently in Capitalism and Schizophrenia. If you haven’t read this incredibly important two-volume work, I highly recommend that wait for us to make both volumes available on our iBooks store and then order them right away. The cool thing is that then, as you’re reading, you will have the strange and circular experience of discovering why you bought the iPad in the first place...


http://www.fakesteve.net/2010/04/an-open-letter-to-the-people-of-the-world.html


----------



## dlx1 (Apr 3, 2010)

Can't you put a deposit down and pick one up on the day.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2010)

People who pre-ordered are getting theirs by FedEx. The ones in the queues are the ones who didn't pre-order, or deliberately wanted to go to the shops. (Some people are like that.)


----------



## dlx1 (Apr 3, 2010)

> deliberately wanted to go to the shops. (Some people are like that.)


 Some people like to sit out side a shop for three or for days. Why


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

All hail the conquering hero!







High fivin', self-applaudin' whoop-fest video here - with added 'countdown':
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8601679.stm


----------



## the B (Apr 4, 2010)

I saw that and thought about doing a photoshop of it. All sorts of ideas came into my mind... but it's late so I can't be arsed.

This came to mind first:
http://www.blogcdn.com/nintendo.joystiq.com/media/2008/12/link_holding_up_triforce_sm.jpg


----------



## Kanda (Apr 4, 2010)

People done it for the PS3 and numerous other gadgets.. so what?


----------



## the B (Apr 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> People done it for the PS3 and numerous other gadgets.. so what?



I think this is the weakest one yet...


----------



## Kanda (Apr 4, 2010)

the B said:


> I think this is the weakest one yet...



Nah, getting repeatedly bothered about launch events is stupid. It's like re-runs on CH5.. who gives a fuck?

People are stupid, we know that.


----------



## the B (Apr 4, 2010)

Apparently, the queues were tiny (a few dozen people in size).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Nah, getting repeatedly bothered about launch events is stupid. It's like re-runs on CH5.. who gives a fuck?
> 
> People are stupid, we know that.



People get enjoyment in ways other people don't shocker.


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> People get enjoyment in ways other people don't shocker.


If it's news enough for the BBC to run a video report, it's news enough to comment about it on here.

Jeez: this idiot bought an iPad just to smash it up for some internet 'fame':
http://gizmodo.com/5509032/crazy-guy-smashes-ipad-with-baseball-bat


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

Ive been looking at how much the iPad weighs, and I think its going to annoy people. I believe it weighs about the same as a Samsung Q1, which to me is about twice as heavy as Id really want. I shall still get one, but am tempering my expectations a little. Still if its a lot cooler than the tablets/UMPCs Ive tried in the past then that should help the overall experience, which I found to be pretty dire with the last generation of tablets.

Fingerprints on the screen is another issue which may somewhat hamper peoples joy with this device.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2010)

It's apparently noticeably heavier than the Kindle. As far as fingerprints go, the 3GS' screen has an oleophobic coating which repels oils from fingers, so presumably the iPad does as well - mind you I'd be putting a screen protector on it as I do with my 3GS, because it's not *scratch*-repellent.


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

There's a pretty big difference: the Kindle is just 10.2 ounces compared to the iPad's 1.5 pounds. Neither weigh a ton of course, but 1.5lbs may become noticeable if you're holding the iPad for some time.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 4, 2010)

It's not a bookreader though. Not the best comparison.


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It's not a bookreader though. Not the best comparison.


Of course it does more than just show books, but it's certainly being heavily touted a book/magazine/e-reading device.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 4, 2010)

Comparing a iPad to a Kindle is a very poor comparison no matter what it might be touted as, it does many more things the Kindle wasn't designed to do.

Its much better comparing it to a fast net book.

As for no queues, unlike the iPhone, you can get them from all over the place.  The iPhone launch, the only place you could get them was the Apple shop.  Instant queue, clapping and hi-fives.


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Comparing a iPad to a Kindle is a very poor comparison no matter what it might be touted as, it does many more things the Kindle wasn't designed to do.
> 
> Its much better comparing it to a fast net book.


I don't think that's too accurate a comparison either really, as on specs alone, it fares very poorly against a similarly priced netbook.

However, as a media tablet, it's currently without peer.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> Fingerprints on the screen is another issue which may somewhat hamper peoples joy with this device.



Only the US that has this device at the moment, greasy fingers kind of goes with the territory.


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 4, 2010)

I can't be doing with that chunky bezel.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Comparing a iPad to a Kindle is a very poor comparison no matter what it might be touted as, it does many more things the Kindle wasn't designed to do.



They are different classes of devices but its still fair to compare them when it comes to weight because both are supposed to be held. There were many terrible flaws with the original PC tablets but for me it was the weight was a dealbreaker. Things arent so bad now but I think its still an issue. I stil expect the iPad to succeed but I dont think we can be completely sure that the tablet form factor is a surefire big hit with a huge part to play in the future - I hope it will because I want tablets to succeed, but even I will give up at some point if the flaws continue to hamper the experience of using tablets.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 4, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> I can't be doing with that chunky bezel.



the bit where your fingers go, so as not to obscure the screen?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> They are different classes of devices but its still fair to compare them when it comes to weight because both are supposed to be held. There were many terrible flaws with the original PC tablets but for me it was the weight was a dealbreaker. Things arent so bad now but I think its still an issue. I stil expect the iPad to succeed but I dont think we can be completely sure that the tablet form factor is a surefire big hit with a huge part to play in the future - I hope it will because I want tablets to succeed, but even I will give up at some point if the flaws continue to hamper the experience of using tablets.



I'm interested in the weight, that is actually holding it without resting it for a period of time - so far reviews seem to be more on the 'it's a little heavier than I thought' side of things - hopefully someones working on lighter batteries.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2010)

I've seen more than one person saying that they couldn't imagine holding it upright with one hand for very long like they do with the Kindle or a paperback. I don't think that aspect will affect sales really; a few people who like that aspect of the Kindle and aren't that interested in the other factors might not switch when they otherwise would have, I suppose.

In general, though, sure, the lighter the weight the better; 1.5lbs is a fine "bag weight" and nowhere near the old brick tablet PCs, but if you were on your feet using it for hours it might get annoying (as it would if it weighed much more than a clipboard really). I expect future revisions will work on that.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 4, 2010)

here's a hands-on *critical* review that's worth reading -  (no mention of cameras, multitasking or flash... well one small refernce to flash at the end) 

link


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> here's a hands-on *critical* review that's worth reading -  (no mention of cameras, multitasking or flash... well one small refernce to flash at the end)
> 
> link


I'm not sure how 'critical' a review can be from a lifelong Mac super-fan posting on a Mac bulletin board, but there you go.


> "My wife and I between us have: a 15.4" unibody MacBook Pro with an OCZ Vertex SSD, a 17" unibody MacBook Pro, a 27" i7 iMac with OCZ Vertex SSD, a 24" LED Cinema Display, ANOTHER 24" LED Cinema Display, a 2009 Mac mini, a Time Capsule, 2x Airport Express, 2x iPhone 3GS 32GB, a 1st gen 2GB iPod Nano and a 16GB last-gen iPod Nano....
> 
> ....and 3x Apple wireless aluminum keyboards, 2x Magic Mouse,"



Elsewhere the hype really is getting ridiculous:

iPad: "Like the Beatles of 2010"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/04/sunday/main6362239.shtml


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm not sure how 'critical' a review can be from a lifelong Mac super-fan posting on a Mac bulletin board, but there you go.



It seems to highlight quite a lot of the flaws more than any of the 'proper' reviews Ive read so far.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Elsewhere the hype really is getting ridiculous:
> 
> iPad: "Like the Beatles of 2010"



Well I disagree with that particular Beatles iPad analogy but I think its true in a different sense: Both have way too much hype but at least there is something substantial beyond the hype.


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> It seems to highlight quite a lot of the flaws more than any of the 'proper' reviews Ive read so far.


It's not unrelenting fanboydom for sure and the writer points out some flaws, but the author admits to being in love with just about anything made by Apple:





> It's a gorgeous, flawed, piece of industrial - yet sci-fi - artwork. Images look stunning on it. Surfing the web is a lot of fun (yes, yes, Flash blah blah), e-mail is a cinch, downloading apps a breeze...., but at the same time you do wonder what the point is...
> 
> But, but.... it's so gorgeous!
> 
> You see? Apple did it to me again. Just like they did the last time. And the time before that...


----------



## Zabo (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm given to believe that the Apple freaks and ipad swooners are like a weird Mormon sect. They appear to have lost all sense of objectivity. Ne'er mind eh, the Japanese and a few others will soon give Apple the good fucking they deserve - Compare the eye-eye phone with HTC's new wonderful gear.

Can't last forever. Now which is the best soap powder?


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> Both have way too much hype but at least there is something substantial beyond the hype.


It's a ridiculous, inane comparison. Really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				Zabo said:
			
		

> I'm given to believe that the Apple freaks and ipad swooners are like a weird Mormon sect. They appear to have lost all sense of objectivity. Ne'er mind eh, the Japanese and a few others will soon give Apple the good fucking they deserve - Compare the eye-eye phone with HTC's new wonderful gear.
> 
> Can't last forever. Now which is the best soap powder?



In my view apple fans are as bad the anti apple brigade, neither offers an honest or objective view...


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> In my view apple fans are as bad the anti apple brigade, neither offers an honest or objective view...


You keep banging on and on about this mysterious "anti-Apple brigade" but where are they? I see endless magazine pages, blogs, Tweets, websites and newspapers full of frothing Apple fans gleefully uploading high fiving videos and superlative-packed praise, but where can I find this "anti-Apple brigade"?

Who's their equivalent of Stephen Fry? Where are the websites? Where are the magazine articles?


----------



## Zabo (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm not anti-Apple I'm just anti-hype about something which is nothing more than a glorified consumer monitor. I'd rather get excited about the doctors in Oz who are developing real skin tissue that grows for victims of severe burns  - no longer plastic surgery. Now that is worth getting excited about not something that a dozen other things can already do.

Do you remember when the iphone was launched? Men screaming and a hollering in front of Jobs as if he had discovered the cure for cancer. Sad bastards.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

editor said:


> It's a ridiculous, inane comparison. Really.



On a number of levels it is a very stupid comparison, I agree. But I really dont think any study of hype and excessive fan devotion would be complete without including The Beatles. Lots of really great music and interesting cultural developments happened in the 1960's, but it was also the decade where hype and consumerism were taken to a whole new level. I dont think there is anything wrong with comparisons on a certain level because whilst bands are not the same as electronic devices, they have a few things in common on the pop culture level.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I don't think that's too accurate a comparison either really, as on specs alone, it fares very poorly against a similarly priced netbook.
> 
> However, as a media tablet, it's currently without peer.



Just because it fairs poorly does not mean its a bad thing to compare against.  They are being targeted at the same market and do similar things.  Just the net book with an intel CPU will always have a great advantage.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

editor said:


> You keep banging on and on about this mysterious "anti-Apple brigade" but where are they? I see endless magazine pages, blogs, Tweets, websites and newspapers full of frothing Apple fans gleefully uploading high fiving videos and superlative-packed praise, but where can I find this "anti-Apple brigade"?
> 
> Who's their equivalent of Stephen Fry? Where are the websites? Where are the magazine articles?



I dont think they are organised, nor do their views have much representation in the media.

But clearly they exist, you are hardly alone in having a bad reaction to the hype, cultural phenomenon and certain aspects of product functionality and other baggage that comes with Apple. Im glad you and plenty of others have this reaction, because Apple would be even creepier and cult-like if the only voices we heard were those of the drooling Apple fanatics. There is a risk of some people overcompensating in the face of the excessively positive reaction Apple stuff gets, but I think it generally balances out in the end.  And there are plenty of people who are somewhere in the middle, who will not defend Apple when they do bad things, but will not take every opportunity to hate on them either. They get less attention because they arent out on a limb or clashing with their opposite number every 5 minutes.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2010)

The comment section of any piece in any publication involving an Apple product is guaranteed to include at minimum 35% "only sheep fooled by advertising / rich trendies / stupid people who know nothing about computers buy Apple products" comments. There will also be a good proportion saying "it's just a big iPod Touch, Apple are crap" or "you should buy Android not Apple" or "I'm waiting for the Courier" or "the screen only costs $X and the processor $Y omg they are making a million dollars profit" - but not _directly_ insulting anyone who buys Apple, just calling Apple shit. It's in the rules of the internet apparently. You don't get that when a new Sony or HP product is announced.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You don't get that when a new Sony or HP product is announced.



Probably do, its just far less noticeable. For Sony its probably reaches noticeable levels when it comes to games consoles, and within a more limited high-end/prosumer audience things like cameras, tvs and fancy hi-fi's.

Brands of all sorts have their lovers and haters, and its no surprise that as Apple have a very visible brand and a mountain of hype these days, that they get a lot of the attention. I dont think Apples critics will succeed in bringing Apples visibility down to a more acceptable level, because they just bring more attention to Apple stuff by adding to all the talk about Apple, what will actually bring Apple down is really good alternative products marketed well by competitors, or simply the passage of time (& poor decisions on Apples part) leading to the fading of their star.

I dont really care if it seems silly and over the top to talk in terms of products and brands forming part of our identities, its no more absurd than other things that made up our identity in the past such as geographical location, religion, favorite musical genres. And its been a triumph of propaganda that a world of mass produced goods which are more uniform than was previously possible, have been sold to people on the basis of supporting their individuality.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> You keep banging on and on about this mysterious "anti-Apple brigade" but where are they? I see endless magazine pages, blogs, Tweets, websites and newspapers full of frothing Apple fans gleefully uploading high fiving videos and superlative-packed praise, but where can I find this "anti-Apple brigade"?
> 
> Who's their equivalent of Stephen Fry? Where are the websites? Where are the magazine articles?



You never seen a negative comment about apple online ever? I thought you were a connected guy! There's always fanboyish detractors just like there are against Sony, nintendo or Microsoft...it's just a fact that one polar extreme will provoke the opposite.

Anyway like I say people that idolise apple are as idiotic as those that instinctively jump to slag them off....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				elbows said:
			
		

> Probably do, its just far less noticeable. For Sony its probably reaches noticeable levels when it comes to games consoles, and within a more limited high-end/prosumer audience things like cameras, tvs and fancy hi-fi's.
> 
> Brands of all sorts have their lovers and haters, and its no surprise that as Apple have a very visible brand and a mountain of hype these days, that they get a lot of the attention. I dont think Apples critics will succeed in bringing Apples visibility down to a more acceptable level, because they just bring more attention to Apple stuff by adding to all the talk about Apple, what will actually bring Apple down is really good alternative products marketed well by competitors, or simply the passage of time (& poor decisions on Apples part) leading to the fading of their star.
> 
> I dont really care if it seems silly and over the top to talk in terms of products and brands forming part of our identities, its no more absurd than other things that made up our identity in the past such as geographical location, religion, favorite musical genres. And its been a triumph of propaganda that a world of mass produced goods which are more uniform than was previously possible, have been sold to people on the basis of supporting their individuality.



The detractors are clearly as obsessed with apple as the fan bois. Probably just a load of undiagnosed OCD sufferers I mean why else would you spend so much energy on this??


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The detractors are clearly as obsessed with apple as the fan bois. Probably just a load of undiagnosed OCD sufferers I mean why else would you spend so much energy on this??



I can think of loads of good reasons why people might talk about Apple too much.

Like it or not, their stuff is presently a bit of a cultural phenomenon, its what lots of people keep talking about, good and bad, both media and individuals online.

Its a company that has some very specific approaches to a variety of things which may get people hopping mad, issues that may be worth harping on about such as control over what apps run on the device.

It suggests not enough other companies are innovating and succeeding in areas that become increasingly important in this internet age.

And never underestimate the internal conflict that can arise when you end up using a product because it currently seems to be the best one, but the brand is incompatible with your own sense of self, values. There have always been plenty of Apple users who do not like the cult of Apple, and the iphone brings these conflicts to the pockets of the pub-goer.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Does Apple have too much influence?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/04/debate-apple-steve-jobs


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2010)

That is a pretty silly article.


> We already know that iPhone owners use it incessantly as an internet gateway and that they use their PCs less. The iPad is likely to turbocharge this trend. So we could be heading for a time when a significant proportion of internet users will access the network via a gateway controlled by a single powerful, secretive company. And a world in which most online paid-for journalism comes through a channel controlled by that same company.


That's just basically cock, unless you believe that Apple have internet filters on all of their devices, in which case I have a selection of highly-effective tinfoil hats I would like to sell you.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

There are some silly points on both sides of that article, the one that is positive about Apple features even more stupidity.

The bit you quote is not quite as silly as it seems, at least when it comes to apps and paid content, where Apple are indeed the gatekeeper. I am sad that many of those who have concerns about the very real control that Apple exert over many aspects of the device and content, feel the need to make the stakes seem higher and the fear greater by conveniently forgetting to mention the web browser as a gateway to content that is not controlled by Apple. Unfortunately its not restricted to these criticisms of Apple, Ive seen it before with debates about net neutrality and h.264 licensing terms - it makes some sense that those who are fighting for freedom/openness and dont want to see us 'sleepwalk into a new trap' would draw attention to the implications and worst case scenerios, but I think they usually go well beyond that, ralying the troops with disproportionate fear rather than building alternatives that deliver in a meaningful way.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2010)

But it isn't about apps and paid content. It explicitly says "internet users will access the network via a gateway controlled..." which is rubbish - quite apart from the fact that works on the same old "omg iPads will take over the world it really IS the future of computing" premise based on the wildest imaginings of fanboys and Apple PR (even the well-established iPhone only constitutes a tiny number of the mobile devices used), Safari does not and can't filter content. It is not a controlled gateway. When Safari starts to have content filters I would switch to another device. I'm far far more concerned about mandatory ISP and government content filters, which already exist.

The pro-Apple one is just pretty vapid tbh, it barely says anything.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> That is a pretty silly article.
> 
> That's just basically cock, unless you believe that Apple have internet filters on all of their devices, in which case I have a selection of highly-effective tinfoil hats I would like to sell you.



Indeed, the article in the yes assumes people don't have brains to make other choices.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

I mean lets look at this sentence ' And a world in which most online paid-for journalism comes through a channel controlled by that same company.'

There is a real chance that Apple may end up getting a lot of clout in the publishing industry, some power and control, and will have some say in how things are reshaped and potentially the content itself. In some areas it may actually improve things for customers, where Apples ideas are more progressive than the old distribution network it usurps, in other ways it can bring new horrors, restrictions or price implications for consumers, creators and the rest of the industry. A mixed bag thats worthy of watching and discussing as it happens.

But no, they have to go and stretch the fear too far with suggestions that most online paid journalism will come through channels controlled by them, which again is ignoring the wider web and the ability that sites featuring journalism will retain to charge customers to consume their content without going through the Apple gatekeeper taking its cut. Apple may get a nice big market share, enough to set some industry rules, but they dont become the only game in town. I mean heck, itunes is huge, and is the easiest option for me to purchase music for the ipod, but there is nothing to stop me buying music from other sources and using it on the ipod. Likewise Apple are leaving a few doors open besides the web for people to get books etc to get onto the iPad. The ultimate nightmare that some people fear will not happen unless they block off these gateways that they are not the keeper of, and I think if they went that far they would face a huge backlash and lose users, gotta keep an eye on them to make sure they dont push harder in this regard but its hardly a forgone conclusion that Apples way will lead us down this, the darkest of paths.


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2010)

And as for the apparent pro-Apple bias in the media, I think there are plenty of reasons for it. Ive never been bowled over by the quality of reviews and especially not technology reviews. Lazy or poorly informed journalists, going with the flow, jumping on the bandwagon, unable to resist joining in the hype, not wishing to go against conventional wisdom or fail to back a winner, being easily impressed by commercial success, identifying with certain aspects of the brand, actually liking the devices because they fit their own needs quite well despite being a poor choice for others (apple airbook!), commercial interests interfering with integrity, saying what they think will be in tune with their audience, hoping that some of Apples kudos will rub off on them, being able to personalise the story by focussing on Apples highly visible figurehead, and probably others.


----------



## mitochondria (Apr 5, 2010)

how many apple fanboys are there?

the remains of my faith in humanity would be shattered

shedload of ipads though - what do you think is their profit per item?


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The pro-Apple one is just pretty vapid tbh, it barely says anything.



It makes amusingly absurd assertions which would be dangerous if many people believed them, as if the quality of the chairs are a guarantee against brutal dictatorship.


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2010)

mitochondria said:


> the remains of my faith in humanity would be shattered
> 
> shedload of ipads though - what do you think is their profit per item?



Not sure of exact profit but a fairly tidy sum. All the same they will be drooling over another potential prize, the amount of money they can extract from the ipad users by getting them to buy various sorts of content on a regular basis.

I dont think the various phenomenon surrounding Apple should be cause to change levels of faith n humanity, I dont think there is anything really unique happening here that we havent seen before. We know how much power and influence corporations can weild once they dominate an industry. We know that people are preapred to sacrifice many freedoms if they percieve that there are benefits to doing so, no matter how superficial those benefits may turn out to be in the grand scheme of things. We know that some people love certain brands and form very strong attachments to certain products. We know that strong aspects of form and design can overcome other limitations. We know that people can get all tribal and take things personally and that platform wars are a new ism, that humans are obsessed with what we have in common and what sets us apart.


----------



## laptop (Apr 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That is a pretty silly article.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Interestingly, this is the line Google's been (thinking about) pushing.

Rather than donning tinfoil hats, they're asking about proprietary news-reader formats, and the possibility of iNews following on from iTunes.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm not sure how 'critical' a review can be from a lifelong Mac super-fan posting on a Mac bulletin board, but there you go.
> 
> 
> Elsewhere the hype really is getting ridiculous:
> ...



I would rather read a _critical_ review of the new Beatles album by someone who was a fan and had all their albums, than by someone who didn't have any... let alone someone who was a closet Stones fan, or someone who thought they had to comment just because _it's the new Beatles album and I have to say something_.


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I would rather read a _critical_ review of the new Beatles album by someone who was a fan and had all their albums, than by someone who didn't have any..


I'd always prefer to read open-minded, independent, non-aligned reviews written by people who aren't already self-confessed life-long fans of the band/product they're reviewing, but each to their own, eh?


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

Here's an interesting article about the hype surrounding the iPad.

And before I hear the usual bleating, please note: It was written by a self confessed Apple fanboy.





> I don't recall any other product launch getting this sort of press—except, maybe, the iPhone. But just about every Apple product introduction is greeted with this sort of media frenzy. Incremental upgrades in the company's laptops are deemed worthy of coverage that must be the envy of Apple's competitors.
> 
> Quick quiz: When was the last time you saw coverage of the latest Thinkpad or Sony Vaio release? Never happens. Do you remember the coverage of Microsoft's efforts at a tablet computer (a proto-iPad) several years ago? I didn't think so. Do you remember voluminous takeouts a couple years ago when Asus, Dell, HP and others pioneered the netbook category, which was arguably as significant a development in portable computing as the iPad? Nope, didn't happen. But we're marinating in the iPad.
> 
> http://recoveringjournalist.typepad.com/recovering_journalist/2010/04/padding-the-coverage.html


----------



## grit (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I'd always prefer to read open-minded, independent, non-aligned reviews written by people who aren't already self-confessed life-long fans of the band/product they're reviewing, but each to their own, eh?



Same goes the opposite direction regarding an axe to grind, but each to their own, eh?


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

grit said:


> Same goes the opposite direction regarding an axe to grind, but each to their own, eh?


Who's written an "axe-grinding" review?


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's an interesting article about the hype surrounding the iPad.



It made some good points. Some slight over egging of its points here and there, eg the idea that wide coverage of certain product launches by other corps 'never happens', though Id certainly agree that it rarely happens to the extent achieved by Apple in recent years.Personally I thought that iphone hype & media frenzy reached a more offensive level than ipad did, partly because of longer gap between product announcement and availability of iphone, partly because smart mobile phones were a surefire hit, a form factor lots of people clearly wanted, unlike tablets which still has unknown potential market size. Plus the form & UI was new with the iphone, creating a wow factor, whereas the ipad struggled to meet the stupidly high expectations and didnt have some mega new wow. The coverage is more positive now but from both individual consumers and journalists the initial reaction upon unveiling of the ipad was quite negative, an anticlimax in some ways. It may not be reflected in the actual sales figures, but even the extent of the queues does not give off quite the frenzied feel that the jesus phone launch did.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I'd always prefer to read open-minded, independent, non-aligned reviews written by people who aren't already self-confessed life-long fans of the band/product they're reviewing, but each to their own, eh?



so you only trust reviews on Apple products by people who do not use/own Apple products?

define independent/non-aligned.

that review I posted was open-minded (they were pretty critical of the device), independent (they do not work for Apple or write for _tech_ sites/mags) - as for non-aligned, if you already have an Apple product are you aligned?


----------



## moose (Apr 5, 2010)

I get my work iPad on Wednesday. I'd report back, but I'm a long-time fangirl, so my opinion is probably worthless 

They're already having supply/demand issues, I note - I've pre-ordered 104 on behalf of a client, and they emailed last week to say we can only have 2  with the balance coming in May and June.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> You keep banging on and on about this mysterious "anti-Apple brigade" but where are they?



There's a fuck ton of them on CiF who pile into pretty much any Guardian article/blog piece on Apple that allows comments.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyway like I say people that idolise apple are as idiotic as those that instinctively jump to slag them off....



Thanks for taking time out of your busy Xbox schedule to share your opinion with us, Billy Jnr.


----------



## gabi (Apr 5, 2010)

> Standing outside an Apple store in Arlington, Va., Saturday, was John Kay, a 27-year-old employee of AT&T. He would pay for just about anything Apple made and said, "If they came out with a $US1000 microwave, I'd buy the microwave."



from an article I've just read


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				stupid dogbot said:
			
		

> Thanks for taking time out of your busy Xbox schedule to share your opinion with us, Billy Jnr.


----------



## grit (Apr 5, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> There's a fuck ton of them on CiF who pile into pretty much any Guardian article/blog piece on Apple that allows comments.



I'd describe editor as a member of the anti apple brigade tbh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				grit said:
			
		

> I'd describe editor as a member of the anti apple brigade tbh.



I wouldn't. He's ott to be sure but he owns an iPhone now so he's at least got an informed opinion derived from personal experience.


----------



## grit (Apr 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I wouldn't. He's ott to be sure but he owns an iPhone now so he's at least got an informed opinion derived from personal experience.



ill take it back as I dont have the energy to get dragged into another circular discussion on the same old shit.


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2010)

There are some complaints about wifi reception, though its too early to be completely sure how bad it is.

The sales figures Apple have announced, 300,000, are probably below some expectations, especially as I think that includes devices shipped to retailers but not necessarily sold, and it certainly includes pre-orders.

Im not that surprised, it would be silly to presume that its certain to be a huge hit. Still to early to make any grand predictions.


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

grit said:


> I'd describe editor as a member of the anti apple brigade tbh.


That argument kind of falls apart when you consider that my current phone  is...an Apple iPhone!  

It looks ever stupider when you bother to read what I've actually said about Mac products over recent months, like the iPhone ("the best smartphone currently available"), MacBooks ("really lovely looking machines") and the iMac ("looks well lush.").

There's a lot I don't like about Apple's business practices and walled-garden control-freakery of course, but that doesn't make me 'anti-Apple'. In fact, you'll find no shortage of Apple fanboys expressing similar concerns to mine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				elbows said:
			
		

> There are some complaints about wifi reception, though its too early to be completely sure how bad it is.
> 
> The sales figures Apple have announced, 300,000, are probably below some expectations, especially as I think that includes devices shipped to retailers but not necessarily sold, and it certainly includes pre-orders.
> 
> Im not that surprised, it would be silly to presume that its certain to be a huge hit. Still to early to make any grand predictions.



Yeah I've read there's been some charging and syncing issues too. Don't really take much from such 'reports' there's always a few probs in a new tech release...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> That argument kind of falls apart when you consider that my current phone  is...an Apple iPhone!
> 
> It looks ever stupider when you bother to read what I've actually said about Mac products over recent months, like the iPhone ("the best smartphone currently available"), MacBooks ("really lovely looking machines") and the iMac ("looks well lush.").
> 
> There's a lot I don't like about Apple's business practices and walled-garden control-freakery of course, but that doesn't make me 'anti-Apple'. In fact, you'll find no shortage of Apple fanboys expressing similar concerns to mine.



He withdrew the comment, why waste time dragging it back up again?


----------



## Janh (Apr 5, 2010)

grit said:


> I'd describe editor as a member of the anti apple brigade tbh.



Hardly. Have you read his enthusiastic piece on running OS X on a (PC) netbook?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				Janh said:
			
		

> Hardly. Have you read his enthusiastic piece on running OS X on a (PC) netbook?



Seriously, he withdrew the comment, this thread really doesn't need a ten page derail over this tedious shite...


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> He withdrew the comment, why waste time dragging it back up again?


He didn't withdraw the comment because he believed it to be untrue or unfair, he only withdrew it because he didn't, "have the energy to get dragged into another circular discussion on the same old shit."

He posted bullshit about me, and I corrected it. Seems a fair enough response to me.


----------



## mitochondria (Apr 5, 2010)

well the most important question about ipad is .


----------



## gabi (Apr 5, 2010)

oh, my sides...


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

Engadget editorial about the increased price of apps for the iPad: 


> Editorial: iPad app prices are out of control
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/editorial-ipad-prices-are-out-of-control-and-will-kill-us-all/


----------



## Sunray (Apr 5, 2010)

Unless people go out and do what I wouldn't and buy these in huge numbers, I can't see it being anything other than an Apple TV.

Colleges in the US are keen, but that's for testing and exam coaching which does not make for a consumer success story.

Nobody has come up with even a 1/2 decent reason to own one of these, let alone a compelling one apart from that Apple make it.  

A normal 17" laptop will cost less, is faster, more expandable and happily run iTunes so can access nearly all the content that the iPad can and can run unlimited applications.  No Apple walled garden approach and a full keyboard and hard disk included in the price.


----------



## the B (Apr 5, 2010)

To all new iPad owners. 

When you masturbate in front of your new device, make sure to put some porn on its screen to avoid embarrassment.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> A normal 17" laptop will cost less, is faster, more expandable and happily run iTunes so can access nearly all the content that the iPad can and can run unlimited applications.  No Apple walled garden approach and a full keyboard and hard disk included in the price.



But weighs a ton, is nowhere near as portable etc..


----------



## Kanda (Apr 5, 2010)

the B said:


> To all new iPad owners.
> 
> When you masturbate in front of your new device, make sure to put some porn on its screen to avoid embarrassment.



Are you a teenager???


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Unless people go out and do what I wouldn't and buy these in huge numbers, I can't see it being anything other than an Apple TV.


I can see the appeal if you're living in a fully Apple'd up household (my mate in NYC was in a high-fiving queue on Friday), or if you just like to have a nice, easy-to-use gadget around the house to watch films on/read magazines etc but it seems to fall short on too many things for me to justify shelling out a wad (and the lack of Flash support is just daft IMO).

Apple says it's going to preview the iPhone OS 4.0 on Thursday - if there's not multi-tasking in that announcement, then the iPad is going to look even sillier compared to competing products like the upcoming HP Slate:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...ises_everything_the_ipad_isnt_with_slate.html


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> the upcoming HP Slate:
> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...ises_everything_the_ipad_isnt_with_slate.html



lol imaginary product


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> lol imaginary product


Want to put a tenner on that?


----------



## paolo (Apr 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I can't see it being anything other than an Apple TV.



It can't be _that_ bad


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Want to put a tenner on that?



Fifty quid to the charity of your choice if that appears in the next two months.


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Fifty quid to the charity of your choice if that appears in the next two months.


Its release date is rumoured to be June. But you were calling it an "imaginary" product. If that's the case, HP are going to look very silly seeing as they're already releasing promo videos.

http://www.wirefresh.com/hp-slate-video-shows-off-ipad-pwning-possibilities/
http://www.wirefresh.com/adobe-shows-off-flash-on-the-hp-slate-device-pc/


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 5, 2010)

All right, fifty quid if it appears for sale in the next six months then.

Or a year actually.


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> All right, fifty quid if it appears for sale in the next six months then.
> 
> Or a year actually.


You are aware that it was shown off at this year's CES and that HP have already got a holding page up for the device, yes?


----------



## paolo (Apr 5, 2010)

Windows tablets... haven't we been here before? Or more accurately, we haven't been there before because nobody bought them. Can't see that changing.


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Windows tablets... haven't we been here before? Or more accurately, we haven't been there before because nobody bought them. Can't see that changing.


You could say the same about the Apple Newton.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> You could say the same about the Apple Newton.



Could you? 

I'd say it would be a crap comparison to what is being discussed. Also, Newton was in the dark years of Apple when they nearly fell apart wasn't it? Then Jobs and Ive came on board?


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Could you?
> 
> I'd say it would be a crap comparison to what is being discussed. Also, Newton was in the dark years of Apple when they nearly fell apart wasn't it? Then Jobs and Ive came on board?


The point being that the Newton (and earlier Windows tablets) are pretty much irrelevant to the tablet market today. Both got it wrong the first time around.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> You are aware that it was shown off at this year's CES and that HP have already got a holding page up for the device, yes?



I don't mind giving money to charity - let's say, six months, if I can go and buy that slate in a shop in six months' time I'll give fifty quid.


----------



## paolo (Apr 5, 2010)

editor said:


> The point being that the Newton (and earlier Windows tablets) are pretty much irrelevant to the tablet market today. Both got it wrong the first time around.



I'd actually say you trace the UI lineage right out of Newton through to Palm. Stylus PDAs were far from fail, for quite awhile.

But back to Windows tablets.

Repackaging desktop OS's for touch so far hasn't worked. I don't think there's any sign of that changing. There is sooo much UI that has to reworked. Pretty much all 3rd party apps fall apart.

Apple's bet here is that it's better to upsize an OS solely designed for touch. I think that's a better bet (although I have my doubts about it becoming pervasive in the same way as the iPhone et al have become).

I think in the next 12-24 months, we're far more likely to see interesting tablets running Android or Windows Mobile 7 Series, than desktop Windows.


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2010)

Right on cue, some leaked docs are showing off the HP's specs:








http://www.wirefresh.com/hp-slate-video-shows-off-ipad-pwning-possibilities/


----------



## paolo (Apr 6, 2010)

It's impossible for HP to reskin an entire OS and all its applications. We've seen this over and over with WinMo. Microsoft themselves gave up and have chucked it in the bin. It's not about a spec-race, it's about user experience.

For anyone who might assume, from the post above, that Engadget don't understand this... here's the paragragh that was omitted:

"Of course, what this spec list doesn't cover is software, and we still haven't seen much of how HP plans to make Windows 7 on a full slate device with netbook-class internals perform as smoothly or as intuitively as its demo videos. That's not a small challenge, especially since the iPad is out now and setting some pretty high expectations for how this new breed of tablets should work. We've got our fingers crossed -- show us something good, HP."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Right on cue, some leaked docs are showing off the HP's specs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That thing looks far too chunky, and the screen ui doesn't look anywhere near as smooth as the ipad...


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It's impossible for HP to reskin an entire OS and all its applications. We've seen this over and over with WinMo. Microsoft themselves gave up and have chucked it in the bin. It's not about a spec-race, it's about user experience.


If HTC can cover over the _indescribable_ hideousness of Windows Mobile to provide a phone as delightful as the HD2, then I wouldn't say it's impossible for HP to do a decent job on the already-attractive W7.  



Kid_Eternity said:


> That thing looks far too chunky, and the  screen ui doesn't look anywhere near as smooth as the  ipad...


There's not a lot between the two on the dimensions, and  it weighs a little less.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It's impossible for HP to reskin an entire OS and all its applications. We've seen this over and over with WinMo. Microsoft themselves gave up and have chucked it in the bin. It's not about a spec-race, it's about user experience.
> 
> For anyone who might assume, from the post above, that Engadget don't understand this... here's the paragragh that was omitted:
> 
> "Of course, what this spec list doesn't cover is software, and we still haven't seen much of how HP plans to make Windows 7 on a full slate device with netbook-class internals perform as smoothly or as intuitively as its demo videos. That's not a small challenge, especially since the iPad is out now and setting some pretty high expectations for how this new breed of tablets should work. We've got our fingers crossed -- show us something good, HP."



You clearly haven't used the full multi touch interface of W7.  Its been heralded as very impressive by many people.  Its the real deal, full multi touch capability built right into the OS.  No re-skinning or anything extra to be done by HP unless they feel they need it. You could quite happily remove their UI and it will be as usable as the iPad.

So I am very interested in the slate, its got all the things the iPad doesn't, has a nicer name and is a proper PC running Windows 7, a great OS that is without peer at the moment.


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

This developer seems to have had a pretty shit time of things, although I'm guessing she still gets her money through even though the app got yanked?
http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/05/fa...-facebook-ultimate-removed-from-the-app-store


----------



## paolo (Apr 6, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You clearly haven't used the full multi touch interface of W7.  Its been heralded as very impressive by many people.  Its the real deal, full multi touch capability built right into the OS.  No re-skinning or anything extra to be done by HP unless they feel they need it. You could quite happily remove their UI and it will be as usable as the iPad.
> 
> So I am very interested in the slate, its got all the things the iPad doesn't, has a nicer name and is a proper PC running Windows 7, a great OS that is without peer at the moment.



When you say multi touch _capability_, what does that mean for the typical Windows app? Are they usable? Or do they need to be redeveloped?

(Perhaps not a fair challenge, given how few iPad apps there are at the moment, but what you're describing sounds too good to be true)


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It's not about a spec-race, it's about user experience.



and that's where people like the editor fail in understanding a device like the iPad.

and ed, for a supposed 'tech' writer you come over more as a gadget man.


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## TopCat (Apr 6, 2010)

All that whooping and clapping and high fiving at the Apple store on the telly made me puke. The only thing worse was that the people in the Q were all filming their entry to the store.


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

I used windows 7 on a touchscreen device over the weekend. Usability was a JOKE. It had an atom processor and got uncomfortably warm and ran out of power in a couple of hours. It had a stylus, which you needed to use as soon as you used a 3rd party bit of software. It was plasticky and flimsy. Terrible. This slate thing will have to be an order of magnitude better than that.


----------



## ernestolynch (Apr 6, 2010)

Which of these gadgets only need one hand to operate them?


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

oooh, is this going to be a wanking joke? they're well funny they are


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## ernestolynch (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> oooh, is this going to be a wanking joke? they're well funny they are



No lol. I post on here on my sony w890i mobile. Just need one hand as the other is invariably holding a baby or a drink. My mate has to put his pint down to use the HD2 touch screen. One handed browsing is good for while I am driving too.


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> No lol. I post on here on my sony w890i mobile. Just need one hand as the other is invariably holding a baby or a drink. My mate has to put his pint down to use the HD2 touch screen. One handed browsing is good for while I am driving too.



But this isn't a mobile phone, or even meant to be anything similar to one..


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## ernestolynch (Apr 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> But this isn't a mobile phone, or even meant to be anything similar to one..



Though the last few posts are about Windows Mobile and the HTC. Keep up.


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> Though the last few posts are about Windows Mobile and the HTC. Keep up.



That's talking about interface design and shortcomings, not the device itself. Keep up


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## ernestolynch (Apr 6, 2010)

Ok.


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## Sunray (Apr 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> When you say multi touch _capability_, what does that mean for the typical Windows app? Are they usable? Or do they need to be redeveloped?
> 
> (Perhaps not a fair challenge, given how few iPad apps there are at the moment, but what you're describing sounds too good to be true)



All the W7 common controls have been made multi-touch.  Vista has had enormo icons.  

Zooming via the scroll wheel has been mapped to pinch.  Developers would have to make something touch enabled if they wanted to take advantage of it.  

This is all irrelevant simply because the iPad offers less than a normal net book with a mouse and keyboard and access to all the window apps.  People are talking like applications are a new thing?

The phone space Apple has a winner.  The netbook space, the net book wins in so many ways the iPad is an irrelevance.  Both are compromises but Apples walled garden is far too much bullshit to take when I can get a very nice little machine that does so much more for less.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> and that's where people like the editor fail in understanding a device like the iPad.
> 
> and ed, for a supposed 'tech' writer you come over more as a gadget man.


I am more than aware of the excellence of the iPad's interface and have said so _many_ times both on here and elsewhere in my capacity as a tech writer, so STFU up with the cheap, moronic ad hominems. Thanks.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I used windows 7 on a touchscreen device over the weekend. Usability was a JOKE. It had an atom processor and got uncomfortably warm and ran out of power in a couple of hours. It had a stylus, which you needed to use as soon as you used a 3rd party bit of software. It was plasticky and flimsy. Terrible. This slate thing will have to be an order of magnitude better than that.


What was the device?


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

editor said:


> What was the device?


Can't remember, it was round dervish's place. It had a slide-out keyboard that then tilted to make it laptop-py. It had a tiny (useless) touchpad, a fingerprint reader and hardware mouse buttons.

EDIT: oh and it somehow had windows mobile on there too, on the windows 7 dekstop, which I didn't really understand.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Can't remember, it was round dervish's place. It had a slide-out keyboard that then tilted to make it laptop-py. It had a tiny (useless) touchpad, a fingerprint reader and hardware mouse buttons.
> 
> EDIT: oh and it somehow had windows mobile on there too, on the windows 7 dekstop, which I didn't really understand.


Are you sure it wasn't some sort of horrid hack?


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

no idea about the WM bit, but everything else was the intended device. came out last year I think. It was a horribly compromised machine, which ran out of battery quickly and could barely play youtube.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> no idea about the WM bit, but everything else was the intended device. It was a horribly compromised machine. came out last year I think.


It sounds more like an over-specced smartphone rather than a proper attempt at a tablet, no?

Either way, I suspect HP's offering is going to be something of a more focussed and slick affair rather than the horrible botch you've described.


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

I suspect it will be, but it'll have to be a LOT better 

Personally, I don't think a desktop OS has any place on a tablet - as soon as you step outside the specially prepared interface into a 3rd-party app you'll run up against an interface designed for keyboard + mouse. It's the same problem that the WM phones had/have - the custom UI is lovely, but creaky old windows is still there underneath. And with every manufacturer bringing their own stick-on UI, developers have no incentive to make touch-enabled versions of their apps.

When you make software for the ipad/pod/phone you must make it for touch. If you're making software for the HP slate, you're making it for Windows.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I suspect it will be, but it'll have to be a LOT better
> 
> Personally, I don't think a desktop OS has any place on a tablet - as soon as you step outside the specially prepared interface into a 3rd-party app you'll run up against an interface designed for keyboard + mouse. It's the same problem that the WM phones had/have - the custom UI is lovely, but creaky old windows is still there underneath. And with every manufacturer bringing their own stick-on UI, developers have no incentive to make touch-enabled versions of their apps.
> 
> When you make software for the ipad/pod/phone you must make it for touch. If you're making software for the HP slate, you're making it for Windows.


I'd be happier taking a tablet with an easy to use touch interface for all the regular tasks - browsing, email, photos etc - and then being able to switch to a pen interface for using 'serious' apps like Photoshop etc - over a super-simplified, basic device like the iPad. The resolutely linear, over-sized button approach of the iPhone drives me mad enough as it is!


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## Cm7 (Apr 6, 2010)

I suspect the next big thing from Apple would be a touchscreen macbook pro


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

Cm7 said:


> I suspect the next big thing from Apple would be a touchscreen macbook pro


which would be just as compromised as a touchscreen windows computer.
I expect larger ipads though, but not for a year or two.


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## Cm7 (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> which would be just as compromised as a touchscreen windows computer.
> I expect larger ipads though, but not for a year or two.



I thought that would be a better strategy - touchscreen macbook, rather than the oversize iphone - ipad.  

A even larger ipad?  I can't imagine the practicality of it.  It'd be home based mostly.


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## Cm7 (Apr 6, 2010)

But then again, they have the 17" macbook around... it's too huge being portable imo.


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## gabi (Apr 6, 2010)

im trying to imagine using this for my job (print design). i can see indesign being pretty cool... but photoshop or illustrator...? paths/beziers with your fingers? hmm... maybe.. i havent tried the PS app on my ipod, is it any good?


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

Cm7 said:


> I thought that would be a better strategy - touchscreen macbook, rather than the oversize iphone - ipad.
> 
> A even larger ipad?  I can't imagine the practicality of it.  It'd be home based mostly.


The problem is that OSX is designed for mouse and keyboard. There are actions you can make with a mouse that can't be done with touch. Click+drag is the most obvious, but there's mouseover and keyboard modifers as well (eg. Alt+Click). This is why windows sucks on tablets, and it's why regular OSX would too, and it's why the ipad runs mobile OSX



gabi said:


> im trying to imagine using this for my job (print design). i can see indesign being pretty cool... but photoshop or illustrator...? paths/beziers with your fingers? hmm... maybe.. i havent tried the PS app on my ipod, is it any good?



These tasks are best done on a proper computer. It's not what the ipad's designed for


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## gabi (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> These tasks are best done on a proper computer. It's not what the ipad's designed for



I'm looking down the track. They obviously intend this to replace laptops eventually.


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> I'm looking down the track. They obviously intend this to replace laptops eventually.



They've actually said otherwise. They're pitching it as something in between.


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> I'm looking down the track. They obviously intend this to replace laptops eventually.


Yeah maybe. Fingers just aren't as precise as mice or pens though - for some stuff (esp. the software I use in my job, CAD etc), a touchscreen will never be good enough.

I can see tablets as general-purpose devices for office use, sitting in keyboard docks and then whisked off to meetings, but not for workstation power-user stuff


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## teuchter (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Yeah maybe. Fingers just aren't as precise as mice or pens though - for some stuff (esp. the software I use in my job, CAD etc), a touchscreen will never be good enough.
> 
> I can see tablets as general-purpose devices for office use, sitting in keyboard docks and then whisked off to meetings, but not for workstation power-user stuff



If they could be used with a stylus though, then they would be great.

I am waiting for the day that I can do CAD stuff and similar on a big touchscreen tablet using a stylus just like you can with a graphics tablet.


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

teuchter said:


> If they could be used with a stylus though, then they would be great.
> 
> I am waiting for the day that I can do CAD stuff and similar on a big touchscreen tablet using a stylus just like you can with a graphics tablet.


Yes, a pen interface would be good for CAD. Wake me up when there are A1, 300dpi screens  (might finally convince my boss that computers are better than paper)


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## gabi (Apr 6, 2010)

Does the PS app have the pen tool?


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> Does the PS app have the pen tool?


no, it's very basic


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2010)

teuchter said:


> If they could be used with a stylus though, then they would be great.
> 
> I am waiting for the day that I can do CAD stuff and similar on a big touchscreen tablet using a stylus just like you can with a graphics tablet.



You can already can't you? Am sure I've seen one my flatmates were after.


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## teuchter (Apr 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> You can already can't you? Am sure I've seen one my flatmates were after.



I think such things already exist but are very expensive; too expensive to be generally adopted in drawing offices.

Also, I don't know what the biggest size available is but it's probably considerably smaller than a reasonably affordable large desktop screen.

But I'm assuming things will change over the next few years.

Once an A2-ish sized tablet is fairly affordable, I'm sure they will become very popular.

Meanwhile I am also waiting for A2 (or even A3) sized foldable digital paper that can be taken onto building sites and the like.


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## gabi (Apr 6, 2010)

How about this as a contender for most pointless and unnecessary survey of the year?



> Piper Jaffray, a leading middle-market investment bank, conducted a survey over the weekend, which has indicated that a significant number of consumers that have purchased an iPad are also owners of Macs and iPhone devices.
> 
> Read more: http://www.itproportal.com/portal/n...apple-aficionados-survey-finds/#ixzz0kJombNTM



Astonishing


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## paolo (Apr 6, 2010)

The interesting thing will be if there is (or isn't) a shift in a few months time once that latent demand is soaked up.

So if they repeat the survey, the initial one isn't quite as daft as it seems because it's a baseline.


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## Sunray (Apr 6, 2010)

50% of engadget people (including me) said they didn't want it, and if you count fence sitters its rises to nearly 70%. Its just a net book in a nice package and a stack of limitations and Apples dictator control of what goes onto it.  

How that is causing the storm that it has so far is entirely down to the iPhone and it being Apple. Its no more than a blip in the sea of net books.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

Sunray said:


> How that is causing the storm that it has so far is entirely down to the iPhone and it being Apple. Its no more than a blip in the sea of net books.


The amount of press it's currently generating is nothing short of _preposterous_, and completely out of proportion. 

As you know, I have to scan all the tech news stories every day, and there's been an endless torrent of iPad 'stories'. It's insane.


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## grit (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Click+drag is the most obvious,



I know what your getting at, but I've seen click and drag emulated with touch pretty well.

Tap->hold->drag, just saying.

Also to gabi, why the fuck would you want to put yourself through the pain of trying to compose on a tablet?!


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## gabi (Apr 6, 2010)

grit said:


> Also to gabi, why the fuck would you want to put yourself through the pain of trying to compose on a tablet?!



i think indesign could work - placing pics, resizing text boxes etc... could be kinda fun using your fingers...

not PS/illy tho. that way lies pain methinks.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

I can't imagine doing any kind graphic/Photoshop work on a touchscreen tablet without a pen/stylus input.


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## teuchter (Apr 6, 2010)

Apart from the problems of accuracy, your fingers would keep obscuring what you were working on.


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## Sunray (Apr 6, 2010)

Shall we have a competition on the most ludicrous use of an iPad?

I shall start with silicon chip design for the hard working chip designer.  When Cadence finally get their arses into gear and write an iPad application (tsk), it should be as fully featured as the main multi-million application and allow for full front to back design for silicon chips and if its more than a few quid, people should moan like its the end of humanity.


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## grit (Apr 6, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Shall we have a competition on the most ludicrous use of an iPad?
> 
> I shall start with silicon chip design for the hard working chip designer.  When Cadence finally get their arses into gear and write an iPad application (tsk), it should be as fully featured as the main multi-million application and allow for full front to back design for silicon chips and if its more than a few quid, people should moan like its the end of humanity.



 

I like your style.


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> i think indesign could work - placing pics, resizing text boxes etc... could be kinda fun using your fingers...



OmniGraffle has been released for the iPad - http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraffle-ipad - though they seem to have made the decision to charge a similar price for it as they do for their desktop app.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

FridgeMagnet;10510634]OmniGraffle has been released for the iPad - [URL]http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnigraffle-ipad[/URL] - though they seem to have made the decision to charge a similar price for it as they do for their desktop app.[/QUOTE]$50. LOL.[QUOTE=Sunray said:


> Shall we have a competition on the most ludicrous use of an iPad?


Here's my nomination for the most piss weak iPad 'news' story of the day:

OMG! The wallpaper looks like a scratched screen to stupid people!!!!!
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=3219431


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## Pie 1 (Apr 6, 2010)

grit said:


> Also to gabi, why the fuck would you want to put yourself through the pain of trying to compose on a tablet?!



It's not such a ridiculous idea in some areas. 
For example, in the studio my digital camera back already has a remote server app for the iphone, that can send an image direct from the camera to an iPhone (ie: a clients) that is logged on via wifi for hi res viewing purposes. 
If you could also grab a small jpg on the viewing device & then drop it into a page layout, that would be very handy for myself & on set art directors, as we compose images to fit very specific copy layouts a lot.


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## grit (Apr 6, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> It's not such a ridiculous idea in some areas.
> For example, in the studio my digital camera back already has a remote server app for the iphone, that can send an image direct from the camera to an iPhone (ie: a clients) that is logged on via wifi for hi res viewing purposes.
> If you could also grab a small jpg on the viewing device & then drop it into a page layout, that would be very handy for myself & on set art directors, as we compose images to fit very specific copy layouts a lot.



If you have requirements to do rough work ups on the fly I see how it would benefit. I wasn't considering the niche areas, more so I had visions in my head of people trying to draw vectors in illustrator using a tablet.


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## Structaural (Apr 6, 2010)

ipad wifi isssues already

and the important stuff:


I wonder why YouTube doesn't get its official icon, just that crappy Apple old tv icon. Another poke in the eye of google?

I know for a fact that I wouldn't do any reading with this device, I'd be straight on the internet all the time, the good thing about books is that's all they do.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

Structaural said:


> ipad wifi isssues already


So that's a mainstream UK newspaper reporting on the wi-fi issues of an Apple product that _isn't even available in the UK_ and won't be for several weeks at least.


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## paolo (Apr 6, 2010)

Sunray said:


> 50% of engadget people (including me) said they didn't want it, and if you count fence sitters its rises to nearly 70%. Its just a net book in a nice package and a stack of limitations and Apples dictator control of what goes onto it.
> 
> How that is causing the storm that it has so far is entirely down to the iPhone and it being Apple. Its no more than a blip in the sea of net books.



I'd say it was a tablet.


----------



## grit (Apr 6, 2010)

editor said:


> So that's a mainstream UK newspaper reporting on the wi-fi issues of an Apple product that _isn't even available in the UK_ and won't be for several weeks at least.



so?


----------



## gabi (Apr 6, 2010)

grit said:


> so?



I think editor is commenting on the awesome power of the apple PR machine. which i believe they've now brought back in house rather than using an external agency. it's certainly effective.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> So that's a mainstream UK newspaper reporting on the wi-fi issues of an Apple product that isn't even available in the UK and won't be for several weeks at least.



And reporting on something all new gadgets have when first released, a few bugs/glitches etc...


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## elbows (Apr 6, 2010)

editor said:


> The amount of press it's currently generating is nothing short of _preposterous_, and completely out of proportion.
> 
> As you know, I have to scan all the tech news stories every day, and there's been an endless torrent of iPad 'stories'. It's insane.



Yes. The only way that with hindsight it will not seem out of proportion, is if it really does end up significantly altering the way we interact with certain sorts of computers, and makes a success of the tablet form factor.

Even if it fails massively I consider Sunrays notion that it is nothing more than a blip on the sea of netbooks to be very silly- even if it fails it will be a huge story and could be an important nail in the coffin of the tablet formfactor, or would have implications for Apples methods of control and app store etc.

Another reason not to compare it to a netbook is that there is a proven market for those that is quite large, not so for tablets.


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## paolo (Apr 6, 2010)

elbows said:


> Yes. The only way that with hindsight it will not seem out of proportion, is if it really does end up significantly altering the way we interact with certain sorts of computers, and makes a success of the tablet form factor.
> 
> Even if it fails massively I consider Sunrays notion that it is nothing more than a blip on the sea of netbooks to be very silly- even if it fails it will be a huge story and could be an important nail in the coffin of the tablet formfactor, or would have implications for Apples methods of control and app store etc.
> 
> Another reason not to compare it to a netbook is that there is a proven market for those that is quite large, not so for tablets.



All of the above.


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## elbows (Apr 6, 2010)

As well as the wifi issue it seems that USB charging requirements are also causing some confusion and sadness for some users - it will only charge in standby mode when used with older USB ports.


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2010)

elbows said:


> older USB ports.



Boofuckinghoo... Jesus... it's not the only gagdet that needs +5v or whatever it is


----------



## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

+10V, which really is a lot for USB to manage


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> +10V, which really is a lot for USB to manage



Well, no, it's not. Every PC since god knows when has had numerous +12v from the supply... and for years I've had devices that have said 'fuck you, I need more power'


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## elbows (Apr 6, 2010)

I think you are proving that its understandable that some people are confused or sad about this issue. Although related to voltage in some ways, we need to talk about watts or amps to make proper sense of it.



> Older, USB 2.0 ports deliver 0.5 amp, which is only enough to charge the iPad when it’s off. Newer machines that feature USB ports conforming to Battery Charging v1.1 standards, and the iPad’s own power outlet, have enough power that the iPad can draw the full 1.5 amps it needs to recharge the battery while it’s running, according to the USB Implementers Forum.



http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/ipad-battery-charging/#ixzz0kMRfQPIP


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## Crispy (Apr 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Well, no, it's not. Every PC since god knows when has had numerous +12v from the supply... and for years I've had devices that have said 'fuck you, I need more power'


Yeah, but the USB spec says 5V maximum, which is why many DVD burners come wih two USB plugs in order to get enough power


----------



## elbows (Apr 6, 2010)

I repeat that this talk of volts is only demonstrating the confusion. Although for the average user its not about the precise nature of the detail, but a failure of the USB scene to remain as simple as the basic 'usb 1' and 'usb 2' labels would imply.

But just to be anal about it, its not about volts, USB standard is still around 5 volts, the only 12 volt USB stuff is 'Powered USB' which is something used by certain business equipment and has additional connections beyond what we are used to with USB.

Over time the amount of power that can be drawn by devices according to the USB spec has been increased, by increasing the current not the volts. And now there are additional 'Battery Charging Specifications' which allow for even more power to be drawn from a single USB connection, up to 9 Watts I believe.


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## Sunray (Apr 7, 2010)

elbows said:


> Yes. The only way that with hindsight it will not seem out of proportion, is if it really does end up significantly altering the way we interact with certain sorts of computers, and makes a success of the tablet form factor.
> 
> Even if it fails massively I consider Sunrays notion that it is nothing more than a blip on the sea of netbooks to be very silly- even if it fails it will be a huge story and could be an important nail in the coffin of the tablet formfactor, or would have implications for Apples methods of control and app store etc.
> 
> Another reason not to compare it to a netbook is that there is a proven market for those that is quite large, not so for tablets.



I just think that their implementation of it is quite poor from an ergonomic point of view. I also think its misses the mark in the size and weight stakes.  

It _has_ to be much thinner, I'd say 1/2 the size and 1/4 the weight before it becomes a ubiquitous computing device which is what I think that Apple are striving to achieve. 

I think they also know this but technology isn't there to properly support it right now, but want to get in there 1st as a land grab, the iPhone nailed it in this respect.  

Not sure if getting in there way behind the technology curve does anything for you as such, just tarnishes the brand producing clunky heavy and functionally light products.


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## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

So does this mean that people buying the iPad single USB dongle won't be able to add USB-powered external HDs and DVDs etc?


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## elbows (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> So does this mean that people buying the iPad single USB dongle won't be able to add USB-powered external HDs and DVDs etc?



A Different issue, one that the USB charging stuff does not shed any light upon as far as I can tell.

Certainly I think it would be a mistake to assume that the USB dongle is going to support a wide range of uses, its being sold as a camera connection kit and I would be somewhat surprised if it fully supported USB hard drives etc, even leaving aside any power issues there are a variety of other reasons that it wont be quite like having a USB port on a computer.


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## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

Arstechnica have their Review and as always it's a detailed, sober examination with good analysis.


----------



## TopCat (Apr 7, 2010)

So is it just mainly a netbook with limited facilities?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

TopCat said:


> So is it just mainly a netbook with limited facilities?


It does some things a netbook does and some things it doesn't. And vice versa. I don't think it can be put in a pithy one-liner. The Ars review comes close with "The ipad is not a big ipod touch, the ipod touch is a small, restricted ipad"


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 7, 2010)

Not a bad review, by any means.


----------



## elbows (Apr 7, 2010)

When it comes to comparisons with the netbook, Id say it can be used to do many of the things people use netbooks for, but the experience of using it, and its strengths and weaknesses are really not that similar to netbooks.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Arstechnica have their Review and as always it's a detailed, sober examination with good analysis.



Cheers, been waiting for that.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Arstechnica have their Review and as always it's a detailed, sober examination with good analysis.


I've bigged up that review on wirefresh and added a few observations of my own:
http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-ipad-gets-comprehensively-reviewed/


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I've bigged up that review on wirefresh and added a few observations of my own:
> http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-ipad-gets-comprehensively-reviewed/



A review of a review!

Weren't you just moaning about the useless iPad articles just recently?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I've bigged up that review on wirefresh and added a few observations of my own:
> http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-ipad-gets-comprehensively-reviewed/





> mixing Apple’s legendary ease of use with the iPhone’s wondrous ease-of-use


 What a heady concoction!

On a more serious note, your familiar "Herr Jobs" quote is a bit offensive maybe? Herr just means Mr, and not all male germans are authoritarian nazis (as implied by the usage) - not sure how I'd feel about that if I was German...


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

grit said:


> A review of a review!
> 
> Weren't you just moaning about the useless iPad articles just recently?


I guess you're still smarting after your last pathetic attempt to slur me as "anti-Apple" backfired so spectacularly in your face, but pray tell what's so 'useless' about my article, please? 

I offer my opinion on the iPad based on what I've seen and read thus far, and then I direct users to what is quite possibly the best review available.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 7, 2010)

*Apple admits its Ipad can't do wireless very well*



> Apple has admitted that its over-hyped Ipad has difficulty connecting to the Internet, which is one of the main reasons for its existence.
> 
> Since the device came out last Saturday Apple message boards have been full of people complaining that they have difficulty getting a WiFi signal if they take the tablet a short distance from the router.
> 
> ...



LOL! Kinda undermines the whole idea of this being a wireless device if you have to stand in a certain spot to connect. I read somewhere the wifi ariel is actually under the black apple logo which is why they think it's not working as well as it should. I expect the 3g version, with is black plastic ariel bit at the top, will fix this issue...


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> What a heady concoction!


Oops! That's not what I meant to write. It's rubbish publishing without a sub editor. You can read your article five times over and still not see really obvious typos and mistakes.

Edit: no, I don't think the 'Herr Jobs' comment is offensive. It's a clearly jokey reference that has been coined for years and I don't think I've ever seen any one complain. 

No doubt grit will be here soon though, claiming to be outraged on behalf of all Germans.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 7, 2010)

Ok, 'Herr editor'.


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I guess you're still smarting after your last pathetic attempt to slur me as "anti-Apple" backfired so spectacularly in your face, but pray tell what's so 'useless' about my article, please?



"Attempt to slur" lol get over yourself. Maybe anti apple is too restrictive a description for how you express your views. I was just referring to the boredom myself (and I presume other posters) experience with your constant linking to articles that highlight apples less than desirable practices. We know, that you know now please quit it.

Personally I dont give a fuck about apple anymore. I did when I was a iPhone 3g user for 2 years but once the iPhone became dated and better alternatives appeared I jumped ship. 

I just didnt think that a cut and paste of an Ars review is worthy of an article itself. Seemed strange after your comments regarding the guardian. But hey all those wirefresh links in the forum must do something for your SEO right? 

Also why would I express rage on behalf of all Germans? When have I ever done something similar?


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! Kinda undermines the whole idea of this being a wireless device if you have to stand in a certain spot to connect. I read somewhere the wifi ariel is actually under the black apple logo which is why they think it's not working as well as it should. I expect the 3g version, with is black plastic ariel bit at the top, will fix this issue...



yeah it's something all new gadgets have when first released, a few bugs/glitches etc...


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot;10513611]Ok said:


> I just didnt think that a cut and paste of an Ars review is worthy of an  article itself.


Hey how about you keep your ad hominems and dishonest  "criticisms" to yourself and do something really wild like discuss the iPad instead? 

What do you reckon? Could be a winning idea, you know.


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> You're velcome.Hey how about you keep your ad hominems and dishonest  "criticisms" to yourself and do something really wild like discuss the iPad instead?
> 
> What do you reckon? Could be a winning idea, you know.



Where was I dishonest?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

grit said:


> Where was I dishonest?


Right here:


grit said:


> I just didnt think that a cut and paste of an Ars review is worthy of an  article itself.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Arstechnica have their Review and as always it's a detailed, sober examination with good analysis.



Thanks for the heads up, i've been waiting for Ars to get their review out - ncie and in depth, one thing I'm hoping gets sorted soon is decent PDF support in iBooks.

And it's nice to finally read something well researched/written by people who have actually _used_ the device...


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Right here:



That word doesn't mean what you think it means.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Thanks for the heads up, i've been waiting for Ars to get their review out - ncie and in depth, one thing I'm hoping gets sorted soon is decent PDF support in iBooks.
> 
> And it's nice to finally read something well researched/written by people who have actually _used_ the device...


Ars has become my very favorite tech site for just that reason. No hype. No blogging a blog about a blog about a rumour about a press release. Just knowledgeable people, writing well about technology. No need to be first or shiniest, just good jouranlism. I like


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2010)

^^^ and they're not afraid to be long-winded, unlike most tech blogs where you're always left wanting more or it's just a cut and paste of the press release. When I see 14 pages to go I'm a happy man.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 7, 2010)

Structaural said:


> ^^^ and they're not afraid to be long-winded, unlike most tech blogs where you're always left wanting more or it's just a cut and paste of the press release. When I see 14 pages to go I'm a happy man.



did you see their Snow Leopard review? it was about 60 pages


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> did you see their Snow Leopard review? it was about 60 pages


That guy _really_ knows his OSX 
Their science editor has a PhD.

Anyway, enough hugging arstechnica







Nice


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 7, 2010)

^ indeed


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Some blogs have no choice but to write articles based on other reviews, press releases, BB posts, user comments, industry viewpoints and other bits of gleaned information because the manufacturer won't give them a review model and/or it's not available in their country. 

That doesn't mean they can't raise valid points or post up interesting observations that even those handling the device may miss.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

Well good luck to them, cos I've got no interest in such original-content-free sites.


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Well good luck to them, cos I've got no interest in such original-content-free sites.



++


----------



## paolo (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Well good luck to them, cos I've got no interest in such original-content-free sites.



++ too


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Ars has become my very favorite tech site for just that reason. No hype. No blogging a blog about a blog about a rumour about a press release. Just knowledgeable people, writing well about technology. No need to be first or shiniest, just good jouranlism. I like



It is a shining beacon in a squalling sea of Techcrunches and Gizmodos.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Well good luck to them, cos I've got no interest in such original-content-free sites.


Informed opinion can be original content too, no? 

I've sometimes found interesting opinions and points being raised on small blogs, and user opinions elsewhere can be just as valid as some 'big site' opinions posted by 'name' staff writers.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 7, 2010)




----------



## Kanda (Apr 7, 2010)

Opinions of others opinions instead of the actual device?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Good example. How many of these so called 'expert' websites test this important criteria of new products, eh? eh?


----------



## Badgers (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Good example. How many of these so called 'expert' websites test this important criteria of new products, eh? eh?



Gap in the market Ed?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Informed opinion can be original content too, no?
> 
> I've sometimes found interesting opinions and points being raised on small blogs, and user opinions elsewhere can be just as valid as some 'big site' opinions posted by 'name' staff writers.


It's ok as these things go, but there's 1000s of these sites out there and I don't want to read them all. I read slashdot and this forum and that already takes up too much time! I go to ars because I know that nearly all their content will be worth reading.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's ok as these things go, but there's 1000s of these sites out there and I don't want to read them all.


Me neither, but I'm not going to dismiss them all as having no original content either.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

ok, then - "very little"


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I've sometimes found interesting opinions and points being raised on small blogs, and user opinions elsewhere can be just as valid as some 'big site' opinions posted by 'name' staff writers.



That usually only happens when the writer has a specific background in the subject.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

grit said:


> That usually only happens when the writer has a specific background in the subject.


Nah. You don't need a doctorate in mobile phones to offer a constructive and valid critique, so long as you've done your research. You're talking to consumers after all, not a room full of electrical engineers.


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Nah. You don't need a doctorate in mobile phones to offer a constructive and valid critique,



You need to have at least used the phone/device in question or have a greater insight than reading a few blogs to add any value. 

I guess its this fundamental view that is the root of the friction regarding the article.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

didn't realise we were critting a particular article really, it's a general issue I have with the echo-chamber of internet 'journalism' - by accumulation of speculation and rumour, 'stories' come into being and websites start to think they're doing actual reporting.


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> didn't realise we were critting a particular article really, it's a general issue I have with the echo-chamber of internet 'journalism' - by accumulation of speculation and rumour, 'stories' come into being and websites start to think they're doing actual reporting.



In general we arnt, just seemed that this part of the discussion had been spurred on by my comments regarding the wirefresh article.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

grit said:


> In general we arnt, just seemed that this part of the discussion had been spurred on by my comments regarding the wirefresh article.


 It was a straightforward lie. 

I'm getting really bored with you posting unfounded and disruptive personal attacks now, so can you keep your digs to yourself from now on, please? Thanks.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

eh? that last post wasn't a dig, ed


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> eh? that last post wasn't a dig, ed


His comments about my wirefresh article were. He claimed it was all "cut and paste".


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> It was a straightforward lie.
> 
> I'm getting really bored with you posting unfounded and disruptive personal attacks now, so can you keep your digs to yourself from now on, please? Thanks.



Personal attacks? Where?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

yeah, but he hadn't made any new ones. no point in raking over the coals eh?

actually. warning bells. arguing with ed on tech thread again.

*fucks off*


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> His comments about my wirefresh article were. He claimed it was all "cut and paste".



I was claiming that it didn't contain enough content to be worthy of an article. Read it again slowly, out loud if helps with the context. 

"I just didnt think that a cut and paste of an Ars review is worthy of an article itself. "

Hardly a vicious personal attack is it?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

grit said:


> Personal attacks? Where?


"Anti-Apple brigade"... "all cut and paste"... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Can you just _zip it_ with the personal stuff and your unique wirefresh 'critiques' and keep it on topic, please? Thanks.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

That was ages ago! You'll do anything for a ruck you will


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> That was ages ago!


Monday, actually.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

christ!


----------



## Kanda (Apr 7, 2010)

Monday is ages ago on here!


----------



## sumimasen (Apr 7, 2010)

Anyone watch Modern Family this week?  For those that live inside cabbages, it's one of the funniest sitcoms to come out the USA in recent years.  I know the bar hasn't been set high , but it's still funny.

Anyway, what's interesting about this week's episode was that it was based on the lead character's desire for an ipad - including the queueing and hi-5ing razzmatazz of it all.  Honestly it was the slickest piece of PR you will see this month.


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

I rephrased the apple comment as to not hurt your feelings. Similarly I made a comment about wirefresh.   NEither are "personal" attacks. 

I've always been careful not to resort to personal attacks no matter how tempting a prospect you make it at times


----------



## Kanda (Apr 7, 2010)

sumimasen said:


> Anyone watch Modern Family this week?  For those that live inside cabbages, it's one of the funniest sitcoms to come out the USA in recent years.  I know the bar hasn't been set high , but it's still funny.
> 
> Anyway, what's interesting about this week's episode was that it was based on the lead character's desire for an ipad - including the queueing and hi-5ing razzmatazz of it all.  Honestly it was the slickest piece of PR you will see this month.



Article on Ars about it: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...f-primetime-modern-family-becomes-ipad-ad.ars


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

That's where money gets you. Nice prime-time pieces of product placement.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 7, 2010)

sumimasen said:


> Anyone watch Modern Family this week?  For those that live inside cabbages, it's one of the funniest sitcoms to come out the USA in recent years.  I know the bar hasn't been set high , but it's still funny.



You are joking, right? It's awful. 

Have you not seen Arrested Development or 30 Rock? Both can be ranked up there as two of the best sit-coms ever, from any nation.

2 and Half Men, Everybody loves Raymond - also both great. Frasier is good.

Even How I Met Your Mother is better than Modern Family!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 7, 2010)

Clearly they shipped them a iPad and had a shop all kitted out for it way before it actually was released so they could edit the show in time for the actual release.

How much moola that cost is any ones guess, but Apple just made that back on interest of the cash they have in the bank in the time it took me to write this post.


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

Here's one of the first reviews from a Brit perspective. He's not exactly thrilled like Stephen Fry and he's well miffed with the lack of Flash. The NY Times app fails to impress him too.



> Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger has been one of the first Brits to spend some time with Apple's iPod device, branding the new tablet PC from Cupertino an 'interim device' and saying that the lack of Adobe Flash on the iPad is just 'perverse'.
> 
> These opinions matter far more than those from most other iPad reviewers to date, because they come from the editor of one of the world's most forward-thinking newspapers...
> 
> ...



Guardian video review: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2010/apr/07/apple-ipad-review-alan-rusbridger


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

Rusbridger is a huge cunt whose expertise is limited to "how to be the biggest cunt", to be fair.

I may be being slightly biased in that viewpoint.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 8, 2010)

> Rusbridger highlights the lack of a proper word processing app as something that he really missed on the iPad, although notes that "as a typing experience, it is not that bad."



Ah great, ok. You fucking ponce. The guys a dick  

Watch his paper jump all over it when it's released in the UK and charge more for the app they have and have a zero flash version of their site... hilarious.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> Rusbridger is a huge cunt whose expertise is limited to "how to be the biggest cunt", to be fair.
> 
> I may be being slightly biased in that viewpoint.



Why do you say that?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why do you say that?



Assorted media-based reasons, but he has no relevant technology experience at all. You might as well ask Piers Morgan. I'm sure he'd answer.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 8, 2010)

Or Max Clifford.

Or Peter and Jordan

Or Posh Spice


All as relevant.


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Rusbridger is a huge cunt whose expertise is limited to "how to be the biggest cunt", to be fair.





Kanda said:


> Ah great, ok. You fucking ponce. The guys a dick


Blimey. The poor fella was only expressing a personal opinion, not strangling small children and setting fire to grannies.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

To be fair it's not about what he said about the iPad, but it's like having Andrew Neil write a review. This is really getting out of hand.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Blimey. The poor fella was only expressing a personal opinion, not strangling small children and setting fire to grannies.



When people start respecting personal opinions then I may agree with you...


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> When people start respecting personal opinions then I may agree with you...


If posters here started calling someone a 'cunt', a 'dick' and a 'fucking ponce' just for expressing a personal opinion on a product, I don't think they'd last very long, you know.


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2010)

Rusbridger is quite obsessed with the future of journalism & newspapers, and as the iPad has been touted as a potential gamechanger for these industries his views seem relevant to me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

elbows said:


> Rusbridger is quite obsessed with the future of journalism & newspapers, and as the iPad has been touted as a potential gamechanger for these industries his views seem relevant to me.



I think "predictable" would be a better match, and he doesn't even talk about that aspect, he just witters on like somebody's poorly-informed dad. My dad could have done lots better than that.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> If posters here started calling someone a 'cunt', a 'dick' and a 'fucking ponce' just for expressing a personal opinion on a product, I don't think they'd last very long, you know.



You know to ignore that, I'm just a little pissed. Look at the clock


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Here's one of the first reviews from a Brit perspective. He's not exactly thrilled like Stephen Fry and he's well miffed with the lack of Flash. The NY Times app fails to impress him too.
> 
> 
> 
> Guardian video review: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2010/apr/07/apple-ipad-review-alan-rusbridger



Amusingly that won't play on my iPhone...


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think "predictable" would be a better match, and he doesn't even talk about that aspect, he just witters on like somebody's poorly-informed dad. My dad could have done lots better than that.



Yes well your own admitted bias regarding him makes your opinions on this matter somewhat predictable and besides the point too. He touches on the aspect a few times, not in any great depth but thats pretty typical for short newspaper video stuff.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

I have to say that I'm still wondering why Rusbridger's opinion of the iPad is any more important than my dad's; in fact I can think of a few why my dad's would be more worthwhile (he doesn't edit an involved publication for a start).

Next up: Sharon Osbourne on the iPad, followed by Nigella's Six Fantastic iPad Recipes.


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2010)

Im interested in all opinions about it, at least as long as the opinions seem new. They dont have to be deeply profound, and I want to hear the opinions from those with vested interests too. 

Technology is far too broad a part of peoples lives now for me to discount the opinions of those whose careers are not technology-related.

Im not sure about Sharon Osbourne but Ozzy would make a fascinating useability tester, he couldnt work a tv back when his doctor had him on too many medications, can he work Apples legendary user interface?


----------



## Zabo (Apr 8, 2010)

*Oops!*

"Some owners of the newly-available iPad have reported problems with connecting their devices to wi-fi.

Hundreds have complained about weak signals on the tablet computer. 

Apple acknowledged on its support page that "under certain conditions, iPad may not automatically rejoin a known wi-fi network".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8606727.stm


----------



## ovaltina (Apr 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> To be fair it's not about what he said about the iPad, but it's like having Andrew Neil write a review. This is really getting out of hand.



Surely the ipad is aimed at non-techies? Andrew Neil should be the perfect person to write a review, or maybe Jeremy Clarkson and his set of hammers?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				Zabo said:
			
		

> Oops!
> 
> "Some owners of the newly-available iPad have reported problems with connecting their devices to wi-fi.
> 
> ...



I'm having de ja vu.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

It's to do with routers that have *b/g* and *n* networks with the same name. Apparently, this confuses all sorts of devices, not just the ipad.


----------



## grit (Apr 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's to do with routers that have *b/g* and *n* networks with the same name. Apparently, this confuses all sorts of devices, not just the ipad.



Thats the cause? its a 30 second fix so. The way people had been going on I was wondering if there was a large amount of dodgy chipsets.


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> Surely the ipad is aimed at non-techies? Andrew Neil should be the perfect person to write a review, or maybe Jeremy Clarkson and his set of hammers?


Well, exactly. 

Some tech reviews are hopelessly irrelevant to the market the product is aimed at, and are really written only for the benefit of fellow techies.

For a mainstream consumer device like the iPad aimed at non-techie people, I'd say that informed, non-spoddie user opinions can be every bit as valid as a 60 page, in-depth technical analysis. As far as I'm concerned, such reviews can complement each other and both have their merits.


----------



## sumimasen (Apr 8, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> You are joking, right? It's awful.
> 
> Have you not seen Arrested Development or 30 Rock? Both can be ranked up there as two of the best sit-coms ever, from any nation.
> 
> ...



WTF, did you just say 2 and a Half Men. Fucking hell


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 8, 2010)

2 and a Half Men is fucking _attrocious_.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Well, exactly.
> 
> Some tech reviews are hopelessly irrelevant to the market the product is aimed at, and are really written only for the benefit of fellow techies.
> 
> For a mainstream consumer device like the iPad aimed at non-techie people, I'd say that informed, non-spoddie user opinions can be every bit as valid as a 60 page, in-depth technical analysis. As far as I'm concerned, such reviews can complement each other and both have their merits.



I think you do non-techies a disservice with that position - take the Arstechnica review - you don't _really_ have to be a techie to understand that do you?, it's a user account of the device and covers every area of what it can do.  If people don't want to read something well written/detailed then they can go and play with one themselves - a much better option than reading someone's personal subjective opinion culled from their own expectations and based upon reviews by others.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 8, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I think you do non-techies a disservice with that position - take the Arstechnica review - you don't _really_ have to be a techie to understand that do you?, it's a user account of the device and covers every area of what it can do.  If people don't want to read something well written/detailed then they can go and play with one themselves - a much better option than reading someone's personal subjective opinion culled from their own expectations and based upon reviews by others.



I think the point is not that a non-techie wouldn't be able to read it, more that they probably couldn't be bothered to plough through something that long. They might have more interesting things to do with their time.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 8, 2010)

how about a naked bird holding one above her head with 'it's cool' written accross her tits?

cut to the chase...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 8, 2010)

obviously she would have the Apple logo over her snatch.


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I think you do non-techies a disservice with that position - take the Arstechnica review - you don't _really_ have to be a techie to understand that do you?, it's a user account of the device and covers every area of what it can do.  If people don't want to read something well written/detailed then they can go and play with one themselves - a much better option than reading someone's personal subjective opinion culled from their own expectations and based upon reviews by others.


The average consumer rarely has the time or the inclination to read 18 page, in-depth technical analysis of new products, no matter  how well written they are. 

I'd wager the vast majority of iPad purchasers have never even _heard_ of  Arstechnica, let alone read the article, and they have even less interest in trawling through pages about Sunspider benchmarks and page render tests.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> did you see their Snow Leopard review? it was about 60 pages



That was a good day


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm having de ja vu.



init, that's 3 times now


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

All I (as a representative sample of an average punter) wants from a review is:

Marks out of ten or a percentage score.
If its marks out of ten then a 8 or above is required by the product or I don't read about it.
If its a pecentage score the product should get 92% or above to get my interest.

A pretty picture of the gadget, being held by a bikini clad woman is best.

Details of its cool factor.

List of celebrities that have one.

Volla!


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Nigella's Six Fantastic iPad Recipes.



You jest, but tbh this is exactly the sort of content that an iPad is for and, if done well, will attract a lot of buyers.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

A cookery book, with big colour pictures and videos showing you how to do each step? Yes, exactly the sort of thing the ipad is for, and will probably sell well


----------



## Kanda (Apr 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> A cookery book, with big colour pictures and videos showing you how to do each step? Yes, exactly the sort of thing the ipad is for, and will probably sell well



Jamie has already done it on the iPhone too...


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

The iPad on a stand would be _perfect_ in the kitchen. Eme asked about a tablet device for the kitchen a while ago, and all I could find were clunky PC tablets. Happily, there's loads of tablets coming up on the horizon, so there should be a wide choice of options, although the software will be key. I can see Apple and Android ruling the roost in this department.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

Not recipes *on* the iPad, recipes made using an iPad to crush garlic perhaps, or ideal lightweight one-handed snacks that can be eaten while you hold the iPad in the other hand. We have not seen the end of this.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> The iPad on a stand would be _perfect_ in the kitchen. Eme asked about a tablet device for the kitchen a while ago, and all I could find were clunky PC tablets. Happily, there's loads of tablets coming up on the horizon, so there should be a wide choice of options, although the software will be key. I can see Apple and Android ruling the roost in this department.



Currently we've got a laptop on the breakfast bar mainly used for browsing, watching video or listening to music while cooking/cleaning etc. It takes up too much space and I'm seriously considering an ipad as a replacement. The only thing stopping me is that I'm a Spotify subscriber and I want to multitask goddammit!


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not recipes *on* the iPad, recipes made using an iPad to crush garlic perhaps.


 
Plus an ap that allows you to drop the iPad into a mixing bowl and it vibrates in pulses that evenly mix / blend / stir your ingredients for you. Different settings for different cooking senarios. Houmous setting etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> The iPad on a stand would be _perfect_ in the kitchen. Eme asked about a tablet device for the kitchen a while ago, and all I could find were clunky PC tablets. Happily, there's loads of tablets coming up on the horizon, so there should be a wide choice of options, although the software will be key. I can see Apple and Android ruling the roost in this department.



Hmmm iPad in the kitchen sounds like a recipe for disaster...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> The average consumer rarely has the time or the inclination to read 18 page, in-depth technical analysis of new products, no matter  how well written they are.
> 
> I'd wager the vast majority of iPad purchasers have never even _heard_ of  Arstechnica, let alone read the article, and they have even less interest in trawling through pages about Sunspider benchmarks and page render tests.



Those 18 pages were mostly filled with stills/videos of the device, it was also in sections, you didn't have to read it all - if you were interested in games there were a few pages reviewing those, if you wanted to know about how it compared to the kindle, a page or two about that etc.

As to your second point, why would anyone who's purchased an iPad want to read a basic slapped together summary of it? I'm sure if they were _interested_ in the device the Ars review would give them some valuble knowledge....

Ars is 4th in an iPad review Google search btw.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmm iPad in the kitchen sounds like a recipe for disaster...



using it between the kitchen and the toilet could lead to all kinds of ills.


----------



## paolo (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmm iPad in the kitchen sounds like a *recipe* for disaster...



*groan*


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

mwgdrwg said:


> Currently we've got a laptop on the breakfast bar mainly used for browsing, watching video or listening to music while cooking/cleaning etc. It takes up too much space and I'm seriously considering an ipad as a replacement. The only thing stopping me is that I'm a Spotify subscriber and I want to multitask goddammit!


Fingers crossed for OS 4.0 then! Wonder what they're going to reveal today?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> using it between the kitchen and the toilet could lead to all kinds of ills.



And spills...



paolo999 said:


> *groan*





Just couldn't resist!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 8, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I think the point is not that a non-techie wouldn't be able to read it, more that they probably couldn't be bothered to plough through something that long. They might have more interesting things to do with their time.



Like posting on lots and lots and lots of Apple threads, for example...


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> As to your second point, why would anyone who's purchased an iPad want to read a basic slapped together summary of it? I'm sure if they were _interested_ in the device the Ars review would give them some valuble knowledge....
> 
> Ars is 4th in an iPad review Google search btw.


Regular consumers shopping for mainstream products do not, generally,  read 18-page reviews in niche tech websites like Arstechnica.

They're more likely to be swayed by less detailed reviews in mainstream publications, word of mouth, friend's opinions and experiences and online consumer user reviews. 

I don't care whether you believe that or not, but it's a fact. 

http://www.triangledirectmedia.com/consumer-review.htm


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Jamie has already done it on the iPhone too...




And the company that made it for him did a bloody good job of it too IMO.


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> And the company that made it for him did a bloody good job of it too IMO.


Aye. Can't bear the prick, but the app is superb.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmm iPad in the kitchen sounds like a recipe for disaster...



They'll probably fuck up with the approval for recipes, only allowing recipes that involve apples to go through


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm surprised the iPad has only 256MB of Ram - same as the 3GS, that's going to make multi-tasking troublesome. If it appears.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> They'll probably fuck up with the approval for recipes, only allowing recipes that involve apples to go through


 
No no no, they'll block the ap if any recipe contains the word apple claiming it infringes their copyright somehow.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 8, 2010)

Apple Crumble's got fuck all chance of approval, has it?


----------



## teuchter (Apr 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not recipes *on* the iPad, recipes made using an iPad to crush garlic perhaps, or ideal lightweight one-handed snacks that can be eaten while you hold the iPad in the other hand. We have not seen the end of this.



You could use the ipad as a tea tray, with user-selected rural scenes (or royal marriage photos) displayed on its surface.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Apple Crumble's got fuck all chance of approval, has it?




Nope, those Apple Tarts will scupper it.


----------



## moose (Apr 8, 2010)

Right, so I've been using the iPad on and off during the day, and unfortunately I'm a bit underwhelmed.... and I'm one of the most devoted fangirls. 

The Flash issue can't be avoided. It's one thing reading media/news sites on my iPhone and not being able to access the video content, but on the larger screen of the iPad, the big gaping hole on pages where the Flash should be just can't be ignored. 

Multitasking I can do without, because I'm used to it. The look of some of the basic utilities like Contacts have been updated for the iPad but given a weird 'antique address book' look, which seems a little odd unless they're going for steampunk irony. 

Sound quality's ok, but obviously nothing brilliant, and quite quiet. 

Maps are a joy on the larger screen, as is iTunes - nice looking, intuitive to touch. 

I'm having some issues with Internet connection - the iPad I'm using is WiFi only, no 3G, and the connection keeps dropping. It takes around a minute after firing the device up to get connected. 

The keypad is very impressive - it's possible to do proper 2-handed typing on it, even though the layout takes a bit of getting used to. 

My biggest problem with it I think is the size. The device is too heavy to hold for long, and I've only got small hands, so it's tricky to know how to hold it safely and still be able to touch the screen. I've resorting to wedging it under my bosom if I'm standing up  Laying it flat on a table isn't a good angle for reading, either. I think the stand up dock would be a must if I were to buy one for myself. 

More later....


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 8, 2010)

moose said:


> I'm a bit underwhelmed





I think the world might have just stopped turning


----------



## moose (Apr 8, 2010)

I know! It must be really shite


----------



## pboi (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Aye. Can't bear the prick, but the app is superb.



mate of mine from uni is responsible for that. Not sure what tech stuff you do, but let me know if you want to pick his brains


----------



## ooo (Apr 8, 2010)

iPad will run OS 4, coming in the fall though.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 9, 2010)

DF's detailed 'you don't have to be tech savvy' review of the iPad - lots of constructive criticism, and as usual a very good read (10 minutes?)



link


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

moose said:


> Right, so I've been using the iPad on and off during the day, and unfortunately I'm a bit underwhelmed.... and I'm one of the most devoted fangirls.
> 
> The Flash issue can't be avoided. It's one thing reading media/news sites on my iPhone and not being able to access the video content, but on the larger screen of the iPad, the big gaping hole on pages where the Flash should be just can't be ignored.
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting that. It's good to get 'real world' feedback - especially when it's of the critical kind from a self-confessed 'devoted fangirl'!


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Anyone else really dislike Job's talking about popping an advertisement every 3 minutes?


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Bosh! The iPad app bannings begin!



> When developer Rich Hong published a sneak preview video of his home-made Dashboard app for iPad, plenty of commentators deemed it cool and a potentially very useful addition to the tablet device’s software stack.
> 
> Alas, Cupertino has now rejected the app for “contradicting the iPad’s user experience”, whatever that means (I guess Apple doesn’t want even a hint of multi-tasking on the iPad until they decide to add support for it). Hong has swiftly made the code for the app open source on GitHub, enabling other developers to compile it for themselves and/or their social circle.
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/09/dashboard-app-ipad-2


The video looks good too.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

I've stopped dithering in my mind now - I'm getting one.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I've stopped dithering in my mind now - I'm getting one.



I'm fairly convinced it's not going to be worth owning until:

a) the other tablets (including the Courier) come out and we can compare
b) the second or even possibly third generation

Going to wait 12 months, like I did with Android, to see what's worth bothering with...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

don't care, still gonna get one 
(and then sell it at a considerable loss when v3 comes out )

basically, I am going to need something in this size range imminently, so may as well go for it


----------



## ooo (Apr 9, 2010)

Autodesk Sketchbook done it again!  I use it on the iPhone, and on the iPad it's certainly more impressive.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/15-ipad-apps/6/


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> don't care, still gonna get one
> (and then sell it at a considerable loss when v3 comes out )
> 
> basically, I am going to need something in this size range imminently, so may as well go for it


If it suits your needs, go for it!

I would recommend giving it a good go in the Apple store first, just to make sure it lives up to your expectations (see moose's comments).

If I had spare cash galore I'd probably consider one for the front room too.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 9, 2010)

Spoken to two mates just now who have iPads in their possession, on trial...

Both are "decidedly underwhelmed", apparently.


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Spoken to two mates just now who have iPads in their possession, on trial...
> 
> Both are "decidedly underwhelmed", apparently.



Aye a friend of my girlfriend is in marketing and she was saying its "fun" but thats about it.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 9, 2010)

Lack of Flash right puts me off. It may be buggy piece of shit but it's still everywhere and to have that choice removed is just shit.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

Yeah I'll give it a go first. Can always take it back in the first two weeks if it turns out to be crap. Just don't want a netbook with its poky little touchpad and crappy battery and cramped keyboard


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Yeah I'll give it a go first. Can always take it back in the first two weeks if it turns out to be crap. Just don't want a netbook with its poky little touchpad and crappy battery and cramped keyboard


Some netbooks most certainly have cramped keyboards (some have excellent ones too) but most offer a more than adequate battery life (many with 7 hours plus). And of course they generally cost a lot less too.

http://www.fantastic-netbooks.co.uk/netbook-rankings/longest-battery-life/


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

Stop it, I want a shiny toy


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Stop it, I want a shiny toy


Here's another Guardian hands-on:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/apr/09/ipad-flaws-review


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 9, 2010)

Apparently Katie Price thinks it's terrific.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apparently Katie Price thinks it's terrific.


Are you dismissing moose's opinion too because it's not written by an _expert_?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 9, 2010)

I'm just a bit sick of people handing iPads to random journos and passing that off as journalism. I care a lot more about moose's opinion because of the "real person" factor, let alone the lack of wittering about clocks ffs.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2010)

What Im really interested in is whether people come up with many highly compelling multi-touch applications for a larger screen. Thats where I would look to have the feelings of being underwhelmed, that quite a few people are reporting, vanish.

I think the first time I ever got really excited about the possibilities with having a larger multitouch device was when I first used google maps on an ipod touch shortly before the iphone was available in the UK.  It remains to be seen quite how many other useful applications can be seriously enhanced with multitouch, I would expect there to be some, but its easier said than done.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2010)

I cant quite figure out why its going to take a fair bit longer for version 4 of the os to come out for the ipad compared to the iphone.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm just a bit sick of people handing iPads to random journos and passing that off as journalism. I care a lot more about moose's opinion because of the "real person" factor, let alone the lack of wittering about clocks ffs.


Journos are real people too, you know.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 9, 2010)

So is Katie Price!


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

the streaming version of the iplayer doesn't work? it works just fine on the iphone and itouch. don't tell me the BBC are being stupid and not recognising the pad as a pod?!

her other niggles are already well know and do not dim my intent. eyes forward!


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2010)

Maybe the BBC have some licensing and internal approval hoops to jump through before they can stream to a different sort of device? Or they dont think they need to get this right before the iPad is available for sale in the UK? Or they are silly.


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

elbows said:


> Maybe the BBC have some licensing and internal approval hoops to jump through before they can stream to a different sort of device? Or they dont think they need to get this right before the iPad is available for sale in the UK? Or they are silly.



Nah once its licensed for online content thats going to be it. I'm guessing its just  not setup for the user agent of the ipad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Some netbooks most certainly have cramped keyboards (some have excellent ones too) but most offer a more than adequate battery life (many with 7 hours plus). And of course they generally cost a lot less too.
> 
> http://www.fantastic-netbooks.co.uk/netbook-rankings/longest-battery-life/



Which netbook would you suggest?


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Which netbook would you suggest?


That very much depends on your needs and preferences. Some have got super long battery lives (10hrs), some have got bigger screens, some have got touchscreens, some have excellent keyboards, some are fast, some are slow, some are pretty, some are chunky. 

Happy to throw up some choices, but I don't think it's the right thread for it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				editor said:
			
		

> That very much depends on your needs and preferences. Some have got super long battery lives (10hrs), some have got bigger screens, some have got touchscreens, some have excellent keyboards, some are fast, some are slow, some are pretty, some are chunky.
> 
> Happy to throw up some choices, but I don't think it's the right thread for it.



Heh yeah sorry didn't mean to derail just mulling getting one at the moment.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh yeah sorry didn't mean to derail just mulling getting one at the moment.


One last derail (and then let's take it to another thread!) - I'd definitely look at getting a s/hand ThinkPad instead of a netbook. The battery life is good (5hrs) and the 12" models aren't much bigger than a netbook. I just got an X200 and it is sweeeeet!

*no more netbook stuff on this thread folks, I promise! Sorry!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

Ah them ones have the nipple right? Can't stand that thing...


----------



## Structaural (Apr 10, 2010)

Get the iPad browsing experience on your desktop 

https://chrome.google.com/extensions/search?itemlang=&q=cubeme


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2010)

The New York Times has a piece about the upcoming competition for the iPad, including Android and Microsoft Courier. It doesnt add much that hasnt already been speculated about, but there are one or two points made that may be of interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/technology/12slate.html


----------



## pinkmonkey (Apr 12, 2010)

my brother is using one - he's writing apps for it for some big US company (can't say who, here) he says, 'you see the power of them when you watch video or look at some of the dedicated apps but I dont see the need for one personally.'  the client is giving him an ipad in a couple of weeks so I'll get chance to have a play then.


----------



## hendo (Apr 14, 2010)

Oh Lordy it's been delayed by a month!

Time to save up I suppose.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/04/14advisory_ipad.html


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 14, 2010)

hendo said:


> Oh Lordy it's been delayed by a month!



((((((((UK fanbois))))))))))


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2010)

*wail of frustrated lust*


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 14, 2010)

Bloody American exceptionalism.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 14, 2010)

Crispy said:


> *wail of frustrated lust*



i think i have that manga


----------



## editor (Apr 14, 2010)

I see it's a case of "I'm alright Jack" for the Yanks.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2010)

what a strange view...


----------



## editor (Apr 14, 2010)

Kanda said:


> what a strange view...


Apple have elected to service their home market sales first and make Brits wait, no?

Least that's what their press release says.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2010)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8620195.stm

Forester Research seem to think it's credible.

If they can't keep up with demand for their launch territory, how the fuck are they going to keep up with demand for an international launch?

Pretty simple really.


----------



## elbows (Apr 14, 2010)

What bullshitters they are, its clearly a manufacturing problem, probably not able to make as many screens as originally anticipated. Demand in the US has been quite good but unlikely to be beyond their original expectations when they first set the timescale.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 14, 2010)

Have we had this, yet?



At least someone is impressed with the iPad, but I'm not sure he can afford one...


----------



## editor (Apr 14, 2010)

Kanda said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8620195.stm
> 
> Forester Research seem to think it's credible.


They also think that there, "is a possibility of manufacturing or component problems" too.

Either way, Brits are having to wait while US orders ship. Not a problem for me, but bad news for those turning moist at the prospect of owning an iPad.


----------



## editor (Apr 14, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Have we had this, yet?


Be funnier if the cat had managed to scratch the fuck out of the screen.


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 14, 2010)

editor said:


> They also think that there, "is a possibility of manufacturing or component problems" too.
> 
> Either way, Brits are having to wait while US orders ship. Not a problem for me, but bad news for those turning moist at the prospect of owning an iPad.



I'm not buying one but was looking forward to playing with it.

Isn't it time Apple grew up and started behaving like an international company; stop this obsessive secrecy, properly test its products and stop thinking of the rest-of-the-world as a secondary market to the US of bleeding A.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2010)

I don't seem to remember this much venom when the Palm Pre was delayed...


----------



## tarannau (Apr 14, 2010)

I bet he was right stamping his foot whilst typing that.

Ooh. I won't be able to play with it in the shops for a month. The bastards eh


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 14, 2010)

Well _I_ want it. Fuck the yanks.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2010)

I was waiting for the 3G one anyway, not fussed


----------



## tarannau (Apr 14, 2010)

It wouldn't have turned out this way if Sir Clive and the Spectrum ruled the computer world.


----------



## editor (Apr 14, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I don't seem to remember this much venom when the  Palm Pre was delayed...


The  Palm Pre wasn't delayed in the UK because of claimed high US sales.  Mind you, I imagine Palm would have _loved_ to have had it delayed for those reasons, but there you go. What's this got to do with this thread, btw?

Oh, and I certainly was pissed off at the huge delay between the US and  UK Pre launches. It was well annoying. The fucks.





tarannau said:


> I bet he was right stamping his foot whilst typing that.


Who? Why?


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2010)

editor said:


> What's this got to do with this thread, btw?



Probably about as much as Thinkpads


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 14, 2010)

tarannau said:


> It wouldn't have turned out this way if Sir Clive and the Spectrum ruled the computer world.



It'd have rubber keys, for a start.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 14, 2010)

Crispy said:


> *wail of frustrated lust*



See it as an extra month to come to your senses ;-)


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2010)

ooooh, looks very likely that the ipad supports USB1 audio devices - that means 2x2 I/O which means headphones and output which means fully-fledged DJ apps


----------



## Echo Base (Apr 15, 2010)

Never early-adopt Apple products. Big mistake. iPad 1.1 is bound to have things like a camera, a USB port. And theyll be jailbreaked by that point too!


----------



## Kanda (Apr 15, 2010)

so you just go buy a 1.1 and give the original one to the g/f. Simple.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2010)

Kanda said:


> so you just go buy a 1.1 and give the original one to the g/f. Simple.




I am going to have to buy _something_ in this sort of size, so I either

a)buy a netbook now, maybe a 1.1 or 2.0 ipad down the road

or

b)buy an ipad now, maybe a 1.1 or 2.0 ipad down the road

My guess is that a 1.0 ipad will hold more resale/reuse value than a netbook


----------



## Kanda (Apr 15, 2010)

This early adopt Apple products thing is a load of crap though. Everything gets upgraded at some point, not JUST Apple products.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2010)

Kanda said:


> This early adopt Apple products thing is a load of crap though. Everything gets upgraded at some point, not JUST Apple products.


doesn't stop it making sense though


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> ooooh, looks very likely that the ipad supports USB1 audio devices - that means 2x2 I/O which means headphones and output which means fully-fledged DJ apps



If it's only 2 channels out it's useless for DJ apps, you need a cue output as well.

Could still have interesting uses though, but nothing like as interesting as it could be if Apple weren't so fucking controlling about the whole affair


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 15, 2010)

Kanda said:


> This early adopt Apple products thing is a load of crap though. Everything gets upgraded at some point, not JUST Apple products.



Yes, I've never understood it. If you want one, buy it ASAP unless it's going to be updated in the next few months, because that means you'll be able to use it for longer. If you don't want this version enough to buy it now, _then_ you wait to see what the next version has.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2010)

There's the headphone socket on the ipad isn't there?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 15, 2010)

The usual reason not to buy Apple products soon after release is that they tend to have a few hardware foibles, e.g. Macbook heatsink, 27 inch iMac displays. These are usually sorted after a few months though. That really only applies to 'new' products though, rather than revisions of existing hardware.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2010)

And besides, those issues are always well catered for if you take the thing into the apple store


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

There's as much actual weight to this one as a fluffy little cloud, but the Telegraph is speculating that the next iPad may do something really radical like include a camera. 

I wonder if those folks here who _positively insisted_ that having a built in camera was a really bad idea will feel when it comes to upgrade time. 

I'd say it would be a ruddy useful thing myself. Stick in a SD card slot and USB and I'll start to look interested. And multi-tasking, of course. It's shite without that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7596906/Next-gen-iPad-to-feature-camera.html


----------



## Kanda (Apr 16, 2010)

editor said:


> I wonder if those folks here who _positively insisted_ that having a built in camera was a really bad idea will feel when it comes to upgrade time.



Who on earth said that?


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Who on earth said that?


Sunnysidedown thinks a camera on the iPad would be a "ludicrous idea."

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10498326&postcount=1552


----------



## Kanda (Apr 16, 2010)

So just the one then.


----------



## magneze (Apr 17, 2010)

iPad printing solution:


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Sunnysidedown thinks a camera on the iPad would be a "ludicrous idea."
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10498326&postcount=1552



yeah, using an iPad to take pictures with would be daft - a front facing webcam otoh, would be a different kettle of fish all together.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Sunnysidedown thinks a camera on the iPad would be a "ludicrous idea."
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10498326&postcount=1552



a quick look at that article reveals this:



> Technology experts have already discovered a slot within the iPad's frame that is exactly the right size for an Apple iSight camera.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 19, 2010)

That could just mean that they gave themselves the option of including one but decided it wasn't really necessary in field trials so ditched the idea.

Popular pressure might lead to its re-instatement.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

If you're waiting for the 3G...



> Apple's seeming disregard for European customers continues with the launch of the 3G version of the iPad in the US.
> 
> The iPad 3G will begin shipping in the US on 7 May - three days before Apple will even start taking pre-orders for the regular iPad in the UK and the rest of Europe.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 19, 2010)

Must be taking a page out of Palm's book


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 19, 2010)

"Temerity". Lulz. So much passion over _things_.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Must be taking a page out of Palm's book


Not sure why Palm keeps getting brought up on iPad/iPhone threads, but yes - their attitude towards the UK was fucking shit, with their loyal customers always coming off a poor second best. 

Their terrible attitude is the reason I'm now holding a phone running the most censored and controlled consumer mobile platform in the known universe.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 19, 2010)

11 mentions of that company in the 1,953 messages on this thread. 8 of those 11 posted by someone called "editor" 

No idea why they keep mentioning it though....


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 19, 2010)

The "you should be pleased for us" thing _did_ feel bloody cheeky though. Yes Apple, I'm very happy for you, now where's the fucking iPad?

this is irritating me at the moment because I've now gone and broken the screen on my Eee too


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Their terrible attitude is the reason I'm now holding a phone running the most censored and controlled consumer mobile platform in the known universe.



Throw it away and buy an HTC, then...


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> 11 mentions of that company in the 1,953 messages on this thread. 8 of those 11 posted by someone called "editor"
> 
> No idea why they keep mentioning it though....


I haven't brought them up for months _ackshully_ and, of course, context is everything.





stupid dogbot;10556089]Throw it away and buy an HTC said:


> this is irritating me at the moment because I've now gone and broken the screen on my Eee too


How did you manage that?!

Edit to add: this might be useful if you are getting one: 10 common iPad problems solved
http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...mputing/10-common-ipad-problems-solved-684416


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 19, 2010)

Whacked it with something - the right hand side of the screen is all flickery lines now.

On the other hand, I learned how to disassemble it completely while I was trying to fix it - didn't help, but it was educational, and I now know how to replace any of the bits. Screens are probably quite cheap on eBay.


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## grit (Apr 19, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Throw it away and buy an HTC, then...



Please dont post such logical and obvious messages, this is an Apple thread on Urban ffs!


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## stupid dogbot (Apr 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Yeah, there's a really smart suggestion.



Obviously, I've missed the bit where you were forced at knife-point to buy this _simply dreadful_ device...


----------



## pboi (Apr 21, 2010)

Adobe throws in the towel on Flash for iPhone
Seth Weintraub | April 20, 2010 | iProducts 
Share
 Adobe is basically saying they've given up on Apple's iPhoneOS products. Principal Product Manager for developer relations for the Flash Platform at Adobe, Mike Chambers lays out the bad news for Flash developers who'd want an easy way to port their apps to iPhone. 

While CS5 will still export for the current iPhone, they are warning developers that Apple will probably pull their "100+ apps already built in Flash"from the App Store at some point in the future and, most importantly, Adobe have suspended all investments in Flash CS5's iPhone App export functionality.

What's interesting is Chambers says they are going to learn from their experience on the iPhone and put their energy behind Android phones and tablets.   He's excited about Android.  But Is Google excited about Flash?  Remember, it was Youtube that went to H.264-encoded MP4s (and made lack of Flash on the iPhone that much more bearable).  That wasn't because Google was head over heals for depending on Flash and their technology.

At this point in time, with Google being the underdog in the field, the Android folk are probably looking for differentiators to Apple's dominant iPhone platform.  Flash is definitely different and brings with it hundreds of thousands of ready-built apps.  Plus, it is better to have friends in the industry rather than enemies.  Speaking of which, no recent Adobe blog post would be complete without a jab at Apple:

To be clear, during the entire development cycle of Flash CS5, the feature complied with Apple’s licensing terms. However, as developers for the iPhone have learned, if you want to develop for the iPhone you have to be prepared for Apple to reject or restrict your development at anytime, and for seemingly any reason. In just the past week Apple also changed its licensing terms to essentially prohibit ad networks other than its own on the iPhone, and it came to light that Apple had rejected an application from a Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist on editorial grounds (which Apple later said was a “mistake”).


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## elbows (Apr 21, 2010)

pboi said:


> Flash is definitely different and brings with it hundreds of thousands of ready-built apps.



Balls. There are hundreds or thousands of games, and quite a lot of web widgets that could probably be adjusted for mobile devies without much effort (if the mobile flash plugin actually performs well) but hundreds of thousands of apps is just not true.


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## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

This woman claims to be the 'world's first iPad DJ' but it's more of a publicity stunt than something regular DJs are going to run to adopt.



> Meet Rana Sobhany. She puts together some great beats using only two iPads and some apps. No laptop or synth needed—this gal's an iPad DJ.
> 
> As she explains in the video, Rana is using some additional equipment for this presentation, but she can work with just her iPads and some apps—Groovemaker House, Looptastic HD, iDaft, AC-7 Pro, Pianist Pro, and Sonosaurus Rex to be specific.
> 
> ...


The user comments seems more informed:


> She's definitely in control of her apps and is obviously familiar with djing/dance music production techniques. She should lose that iDaft one-trick-pony and use BeatMaker. She's doing her thing, I'm not mad at her. And damn, I gotta say, those iPads look sexy in tandem.
> 
> Something that stuck with me was that although she had the same app running on both iPads, they sadly weren't really in any sort of communication with each other - an adhoc WiFi connection allowing control of tempo sync, mixing, synchronizing/sharing sounds or data, effects... There are lots of possibilities in the coming apps.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

There will be some very interesting music-making apps on ipad, especially if the USB audio interface works as promised.


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 21, 2010)

I think music apps have been a very underrated segment of the iPhone (and now iPad) market - they don't seem to get a lot of publicity, but I think they're probably the most interesting area, with a huge variety - simple loop-making toys, experimental touch-controlled instruments, proper hardcore sequencers, emulators for antique synths and music chips, interactive ambient music generators....


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> There will be some very interesting music-making apps on ipad, especially if the USB audio interface works as promised.



They'll be stylish certainly, but I can't see anything groundbreaking coming out.

For real music making ingenuity, check out what some people are doing using Wii remotes as controllers...


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## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think music apps have been a very underrated segment of the iPhone (and now iPad) market - they don't seem to get a lot of publicity, but I think they're probably the most interesting area, with a huge variety - simple loop-making toys, experimental touch-controlled instruments, proper hardcore sequencers, emulators for antique synths and music chips, interactive ambient music generators....


I think that's a lot to do with the size of the iPhone's screen and lack of hardware buttons which makes it hard to do much when you're mobile (buttons on DJ decks are usually mahoosive). And if you're not mobile, you may as well use a laptop.


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

except a laptop isn't multi-touch. That's what makes things a little more exciting. Don't know if you've ever tried to use laptop DJ software without a specialist interface - it's a nightmare getting the mouse around and pushing all the right buttons. A direct touch interface will be so much nicer.


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## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> except a laptop isn't multi-touch. That's what makes things a little more exciting. Don't know if you've ever tried to use laptop DJ software without a specialist interface - it's a nightmare getting the mouse around and pushing all the right buttons. A direct touch interface will be so much nicer.


I really wouldn't fancy trying to DJ on an iPhone screen in a lively, boozed up club, multitouch or not.

Besides, the screen doesn't work too well when you've got beer getting sloshed about.


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

I don't think I'd want beer on my DJ equipment no matter what it was made of tbf.


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## Kanda (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I don't think I'd want beer on my DJ equipment no matter what it was made of tbf.



Aye ^^

My coffin case of gear cost over 4 grand... bit different to a couple of iPads.


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## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I don't think I'd want beer on my DJ equipment no matter what it was made of tbf.


Best you never set up in lively, lairy bars then!

It's not uncommon to turn up at a new venue and find the turntables, CD decks and mixer with a liberal sticky coating of stale beer.

You could build yourself an impenetrable DJ throne though, or go for the weird plastiglass-protected affair at Hootananny which feels like DJing inside a cockpit.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> except a laptop isn't multi-touch. That's what makes things a little more exciting. Don't know if you've ever tried to use laptop DJ software without a specialist interface - it's a nightmare getting the mouse around and pushing all the right buttons. A direct touch interface will be so much nicer.



But will still be style over substance. 

They'll look cool (I imagine someone like Tiesto has got 10 on order ) but compared to a proper laptop + controller setup they'll be somewhat lacking.


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

well yeah, but I'd like to be able to pull it out of a bag and plug in at a house party or whatever. And it could be good as a controller in its own right. I've got a few apps on the touch that do that but they're really limited by the small screen.


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## Kanda (Apr 21, 2010)

Traktor + iPad:


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> it could be good as a controller in its own right



It will be a cool, visually stunning controller (and as such there is a market for it, stage visuals are important, especially for traditionally dull looking electronic acts), but practically, it will be awful. 

I can operate a mixer without looking at it, you won't be able to do that with a pad.


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

obviously not one for the pros  but for little old me who'd like to to try a bit of mixing without filling my house (or the party) up with clutter, it could be great fun


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## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

The lack of removable storage on the iPad might also prove a pain to DJs on the road.


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

maybe. there is plenty to go round tbf
a great shame that 3rd party apps can't access the onboard song store though


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> obviously not one for the pros  but for little old me who'd like to to try a bit of mixing without filling my house (or the party) up with clutter, it could be great fun



But how will it be differnt from a laptop setup?


iPad - You need this, plus an adapter, plus an audio interface.

Laptop - you need this, plus a combined interface/controller.


What's the difference, other than looking cool?


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

try using all that laptop stuff while sat in a comfy chair


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 21, 2010)

"DJ Comfy"


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## editor (Apr 23, 2010)

Check out this absolutely stunning weather app - probably the most purdy weather app ever:







http://www.wirefresh.com/weather-hd-for-the-ipad-lush-gorgeous-stunning-but-a-bit-pointless/

Elsewhere, another developer fell foul of Apple's increasingly daft rules and had his simple clock app refused:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=3221374


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 25, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I imagine someone like Tiesto has got 10 on order



Or maybe not.

It seems there's a limit to the number of iPads you're allowed to buy 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/25/ipad_lifetime_limit/


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Check out this absolutely stunning weather app - probably the most purdy weather app ever:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure is nice but not sure it's worth bothering with, I've never managed to use anything other than the standard weather app on my iPhone. In terms of weather it really does the job for me...


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## editor (Apr 26, 2010)

Oh dear. More DRM nonsense!


> Apple iPad Dock Connector to VGA Adapter not accomplishing the simplest of tasks
> 
> Look, there's no arguing that Apple charges a boatload for its first-party adapters, and this isn't the first time that one of those overpriced dongles has caused an uproar (Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter, anyone?). But when the company trots out an iPad Dock Connector to VGA Adapter and promises to enable users to "see their videos and slideshows on the big screen," it should probably make a few clarifications.
> 
> ...


There's problems with the SD card reader, with some high capacity cards not working. And you can forget all about lobbing in portable HD drives into that USB slot, apparently.


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## cybertect (Apr 26, 2010)

Engadget got it completely wrong about Keynote. 

That _will_ output the presentation to a second display. 

What it doesn't do with Keynote is mirror what's on the external display to the internal one, but present a control console and a filmstrip of the slides in the presentation on the internal display.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/09/real-life-ipad-presenting-with-an-ipad-keynote-and-vga-connec/


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## editor (Apr 27, 2010)

cybertect said:


> Engadget got it completely wrong about Keynote.
> 
> That _will_ output the presentation to a second display.
> 
> ...


You can't use the iPad to project Safari on the screen either which would rule it out for me (I've given lectures with laptops/netbooks in the past and absolutely need a browser).


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## ooo (Apr 27, 2010)

I find typing on the onscreen keyboard a little difficult, too much travelling distance for my fingers between letters.
It's huge, it's full size, but I'm holding the ipad in one hand and typing with the other, and it isn't the most practical.


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## stupid dogbot (Apr 27, 2010)

And ANOTHER thing... iPad may not be conducive to getting a good night's sleep....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/27/ipad_insomnia/

Well, there's a shock!


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## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

ooo said:


> I find typing on the onscreen keyboard a little difficult, too much travelling distance for my fingers between letters.
> It's huge, it's full size, but I'm holding the ipad in one hand and typing with the other, and it isn't the most practical.



When the device was first announced, this was the thing that always bugged me. I still cant see a physical stance that would be comfortable using it long term.


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## pboi (Apr 29, 2010)

elbows said:


> Balls. There are hundreds or thousands of games, and quite a lot of web widgets that could probably be adjusted for mobile devies without much effort (if the mobile flash plugin actually performs well) but hundreds of thousands of apps is just not true.



dude I didnt post that did I?


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## elbows (Apr 29, 2010)

pboi said:


> dude I didnt post that did I?



Post 1960, you posted an article that said that.


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## pboi (Apr 29, 2010)

ah right, phew. Thought I was losing my mind then! thanks


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## hendo (Apr 29, 2010)

Here are Steve Jobs's thoughts about Flash

(This is where we discuss this isn't it?)


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## gabi (Apr 29, 2010)

hendo said:


> Here are Steve Jobs's thoughts about Flash
> 
> (This is where we discuss this isn't it?)



Bit of chat about that on the iphone thread..

This site really needs an Apple sub-forum. Ed?


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## Crispy (Apr 29, 2010)

The mods have discussed it before and came to the conclusion that there isn't enough traffic to warrant sub-forums for different platforms


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## editor (Apr 29, 2010)

Apart from an Amiga one, of course.


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## gabi (Apr 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The mods have discussed it before and came to the conclusion that there isn't enough traffic to warrant sub-forums for different platforms



How long ago was this discussed? Apple threads are waaaaay heavy. 

At a guess I think the tech posts probably make up a higher proportion of total posts than in times past. It would make more sense to divide this forum up than say, the sports one..


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## tarannau (Apr 29, 2010)

Gawd that's be flamebait territory for a forum. No need really - threads hang around here happily enough.


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## gabi (Apr 29, 2010)

Yeh, well the only problem is that it's very easy to miss things on the Apple threads as they move fast across a fairly wide range of sub-topics.. Which is usually when you'd make it a forum...

Anyway. I won't dig further


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## tarannau (Apr 29, 2010)

Things move fast on Apple threads because there's usually an endless series of distractions and gripes at Apple with marginal relevance to the ongoing thread, with all the lively debate that ensues as a result.  Generally enjoyable really.

Expanding it to its own forum wouldn't help imo, more likely the opposite. Apple tends to attract plenty of comment all across the web. And can you imagine the Windows and especially the Linux forum in the main? No thanks.


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## editor (Apr 29, 2010)

gabi said:


> How long ago was this discussed? Apple threads are waaaaay heavy.
> 
> At a guess I think the tech posts probably make up a higher proportion of total posts than in times past. It would make more sense to divide this forum up than say, the sports one..


If we had an separate Apple forum, then we'd have to have a separate Microsoft one. And then an Android one.  And maybe ones for Linux, Nokia, HTC, netbooks, laptops, Sony, Dell etc etc.

It's not a practical idea and besides, there's not that many active Apple threads going on.


----------



## gabi (Apr 29, 2010)

Why not an Apple forum and a 'general gadgets' one? 

I realise there's not many Apple threads but the point is they're so bloated they should really be divided up.


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## paolo (May 3, 2010)

Apple has announced that they've passed the million units mark. I didn't expect it to do so well out of the gate. About half the time that it took the iPhone to do the same number.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 3, 2010)

I had a play with one of these last week the place i'm contracting in atm has had a load shipped in which arrvied a bit late due to the volcano.

First impressions it's very usable and tactile and a lot lighter than you'd expect for it's size, second thought I have literally no idea what I'd use it for or when.  No good for web dev no good for presentations quite good as an electronic clip board to wander round making notes but as it's crippled once again by the Jobsian lunacy of we don't support some stuff cos I'm mental (tm - apple) then again I'm at a loss as to understand where exactly this product will fit in...

We've already gone back to using mac book pros when demoing stuff to clients and the ipads aren't being used at all.

So a lovely idea crippled by a moronic stance on what it will and won't support natively that the bigger machines will... 

Oi jobs sort it out.  I really want to like this product in the wild but it's like a shit fat ipod touch with no possible use other than as a paper weight...


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## elbows (May 3, 2010)

If your company arent using them then Id happily take one off your hands  Wonder what the UK retail price will be, gotta wait about a week to find out.


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## GarfieldLeChat (May 3, 2010)

elbows said:


> If your company arent using them then Id happily take one off your hands  Wonder what the UK retail price will be, gotta wait about a week to find out.



I'm guesing close to the £350 mark...  tho tbh the pie fone was £600 when it came out but I'm thinking this will have to compete with the netbook market (although it won't in functionality alone).

It's a very very tactile thing though but the screen doesn't half get smudgy quickly and again the size of the on board storage basically cripples it, along with not supporting flash (even despite adobes changes to running code from CS5 which apple have now kiboshed (thanks Jobs) meaning that the iphone app build in cs5 is now against the TOS of usage for OS4 cos it's not native compiled code and it access the ARM directly...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/09/apple_iphone_4_sdk_change/

Which pretty much ends the apple flash war there and then apples recent announcement has in effect said we're no longer supporting adobe in any capacity, I'll await to see if they make the same lunacy take over the updates for snow leopard soon to drop but i suspect that this is coming...

particlarlly after his bullshit lettle about flash recently which basically says it'll affect how much money apple can make fuck you

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/30/jobs_flash_letter_deconstructed/

but as with all of this then the other side of it is that the us law courts are looking into it under the auspices of anti trust and so it might just be that the jobsian nightmareish future is kicked to touch.... but some how I doubt it...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/03/doj_and_ftc_exploring_apple_antitrust_inquiry/

worst case senario they'll allow it on os3 and then 'break' it on os4 update at some point apologising but saying they really can't fix it...

more likely though the result of the anti-trust were it to go ahead would fall in apples favour with them making some basically sound but of course easily circumvented claims that allowing access to the ARM processor directly could detestablise the hardware/make it vulnerable and so on or in traditional apple fashion they'd simple withdraw support and cease selling them, releasing a new product with similar feature sets but 'different' arch a few months later.

so I very much doubt there's any good reason to have one other than out and out fashionista kudos for the foreseeable, not that of course it'll stop mac heads and technophiles buying them in the truckload like crack sweets when they finally do drop.

The only thing which might slow this down is the current two issues with the units, 1 it doesn't conform to uk/euro wifi regs it's signal is too strong on output which means it's already been banned in Israel for fear of it interfering with their military hardware (unlikely tbh and you could always have the thing attenuated or put a condenser in their which lowered the output) the other is that they physically cannot make enough units and like the Wii a few years ago apple might have just hit pay dirt on this (indeed it might even be a clever marketing/sales ploy) the scarcity of the item will inevitably put up the price of the units as retailers make hay while the sunshines meaning that being an early adopter of the ipad will almost certainly leave you with a system which is limited in hdd size and capabilities with in the os until things like app support are sorted (and the other jobsian lunacy)


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## elbows (May 3, 2010)

To be honest Im fine with all the limitations because all I want it for at this stage is to surf the web in bed and do some experimental development of multitouch HTML5-based apps.


----------



## editor (May 3, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> ....second thought I have literally no idea what I'd use it for or when.  No good for web dev no good for presentations quite good as an electronic clip board to wander round making notes but as it's crippled once again by the Jobsian lunacy of we don't support some stuff cos I'm mental (tm - apple) then again I'm at a loss as to understand where exactly this product will fit in...


That's where I'm at with the iPad too.

I've just got back from a week away with my netbook and I'd forgotten how ruddy useful they were. I was storing images off my camera on them (via the SD card slot), browsing the web, sending emails, streaming web music, writing work stuff, uploading FTP files, downloading files and editing images, all with a ton of things merrily multi tasking away - and with a 7hour battery life.

The only real criticism is the size of the keyboard (it's an Eee901), but my friend's Samsung netbook had a near full-size one that was a joy to type on. If I was to upgrade, that's what I get instead of an iPad.

Mind you, if I wanted an expensive gadget for around the house, the iPad would be great.


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## Zabo (May 5, 2010)

*iPad*

When you've spent all your money on the useless ipad you may want to make your own interactive stylus. Here's how:

http://www.ipodtouchfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=284534


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## editor (May 5, 2010)

And here's macworld to back up what I was saying about the iPad - it's not a very good tool if you're on the move, and the keyboard is only good for "tapping out a paragraph or so."





> On the plus side, the iPad proved to be a lightweight powerhouse, useful in situations where a notebook computer is impractical.
> 
> On the minus side, it simply lacked the tools and versatility I needed to be able to rely on it as my only computer.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2010)

> It's not a stand-alone computer; it's a companion to your main computer. If you want to do any serious work, you need a laptop or a desktop computer.



No shit? What the fuck do they think it syncs with?


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 5, 2010)

Yep, that'll be _exactly_ what I had in mind for it.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2010)

That is a bit of a "durrrr really?" article 

Next week: stripping down a motorbike engine with a swiss army knife.


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## editor (May 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> That is a bit of a "durrrr really?" article


Sure, but some people are keen to suggest that the iPad really is some kind of credible alternative to netbooks.



> Here we go again. Another group is claiming that netbook sales are down largely because of the introduction of the Apple iPad...
> 
> On the other hand, a report from Morgan Stanley analyst Katy Huberty does carry some weight, since it doesn’t just try to tie together the facts that netbook sales are slowing while Apple is selling a pretty decent number of iPads. It also cites survey data showing that 44% of the folks planning to buy an iPad in the US said they were looking at getting an iPad instead of a notebook or netbook.
> 
> http://www.liliputing.com/2010/05/is-the-ipad-eating-into-netbook-sales.html


----------



## tarannau (May 6, 2010)

I think a lot of people would also argue that Netbooks aren't credible alternatives to a 'full' machine either. They're companions to existing computers imo, not for doing 'serious work' on either.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 6, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*




			
				Crispy said:
			
		

> That is a bit of a "durrrr really?" article
> 
> Next week: stripping down a motorbike engine with a swiss army knife.


 
Lol when writing articles about apple it seems it turns off the common sense gene at times in the writer...


----------



## Kanda (May 6, 2010)

I'm getting an iPad instead of a Netbook


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2010)

ditto 

(but I'm not going to try and use it like a laptop)


----------



## Kanda (May 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> (but I'm not going to try and use it like a laptop)



ditto


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 6, 2010)

^^ I am also like them.

Well, in this, anyway.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 6, 2010)

I'd get one if I had the money and didn't need a new laptop. Think I'll be getting my first mac in the next couple months...


----------



## grit (May 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'd get one if I had the money and didn't need a new laptop. Think I'll be getting my first mac in the next couple months...



Aye the macbooks are nice machines, I'd like to have one but since the irritation of owning an iPhone I cant justify giving them more money.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 7, 2010)

Whereas, I've had Apple laptops for 10+ years and am never again buying anything else from another manufacturer.


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## Kanda (May 7, 2010)

UK Pricing released:



> In the U.K., the Wi-Fi-only iPads will sell for £429, £499, and £599 for 16GB, 32GB, and 64GB respectively. The 3G models will go for  £529, £599, and £699 16GB, 32GB, and 64GB. All prices include the U.K.’s Value Added Tax (VAT); the iPads will be available through brick-and-mortar and online Apple Stores, as well as select Apple resellers. There’s no news yet on what the prices of 3G plans in the U.K. will be, though British providers such as Orange, O2, and Vodafone all said last month that they will offer dedicated iPad data plans.



http://www.macworld.com/article/151113/2010/05/ipad_international.html


----------



## editor (May 7, 2010)

£700 for the 64GB!!!!!


----------



## TitanSound (May 7, 2010)

editor said:


> £700 for the 64GB!!!!!


----------



## Gromit (May 7, 2010)

editor said:


> £700 for the 64GB!!!!!


 
Its time to pearoast that flowchart I think. The 'should I buy an iPad' one.


----------



## grit (May 7, 2010)

editor said:


> £700 for the 64GB!!!!!



Crazy isint it? think of the laptops you can buy for that money, or the total beast of a desktop you could build. 

Granted I know they are totally different use cases but to even think about getting a device like an iPad it needs to be closer to the impulse buy price point for me.


----------



## tarannau (May 7, 2010)

Who impulse buys the top of the range 3g tablet though?

Not for me, but there should be no real surprise at those price points. Aside from the white macbook the ipads are basically half the price of any mac laptop


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 7, 2010)

grit said:


> or the total beast of a desktop you could build.



Might be a little difficult to carry about, though. 

Tbh, I don't see why anyone's surprised about this pricing, it's in line with other Apple pricing.


----------



## Kanda (May 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Who impulse buys the top of the range 3g tablet though?


----------



## tarannau (May 7, 2010)

Pish soft lad. You've been cogitating and salivating over the prospect of an ipad for a little while now.


----------



## editor (May 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Not for me, but there should be no real surprise at those price points. Aside from the white macbook the ipads are basically half the price of any mac laptop


As they should be, seing as they only provide a fraction of the functionality.

Kanda: aren't you going to buy the top of the range model?


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 7, 2010)

32g 3g looks good.


----------



## Kanda (May 7, 2010)

Dunno yet. I was thinking about the 32g+3g but when I get to the store.. that might change


----------



## tarannau (May 7, 2010)

Most people only use a fraction of the functionality of a decent laptop though, at least a hefty proportion of the time. 

To many consumers their laptops are little more than outlets for the web and a little entertainment.


----------



## editor (May 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> 32g 3g looks good.


Shame the networks haven't announced their iPad rates yet.


----------



## editor (May 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Most people only use a fraction of the functionality of a decent laptop though, at least a hefty proportion of the time.
> 
> To many consumers their laptops are little more than outlets for the web and a little entertainment.


Indeed. And they usually budget for it accordingly. Unless they're loaded of course!


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Shame the networks haven't announced their iPad rates yet.



Meh. I doubt it'll be prohibitive.


----------



## tarannau (May 7, 2010)

Like bollocks they do ime. People generally buy the best laptop they can justify/afford rather than look at a dispassionate selection of stats and functionality gubbins to ensure that they purchase something that meets their needs and little more.

Laptops are the majority of pcs sold now, not unusual purchases that people analyse and agonise over in the main. Yep, budget's a part of that decision, but it's not a dry look at functionality and bang for the buck in the main.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 7, 2010)

prices are out

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/05/07/apple_ipad_uk_pricing/

ffs howmuch....

so no not a netbook replacement then...


----------



## grit (May 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Shame the networks haven't announced their iPad rates yet.



Would it not be the case of just banging in any sim?


----------



## Crispy (May 7, 2010)

grit said:


> Would it not be the case of just banging in any sim?


You'd have to physically slice the SIM down to fit - the ipad uses the SIM micro format. exactly the same chip, just a smaller piece of plastic.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 7, 2010)

I would imagine the immediate reason is to stop iPhone customers just swapping SIMs, no?


----------



## editor (May 7, 2010)

Here's Orange's charges which go right up to £50 for a GB!!!



> Pay-as-you-go data bundles are the most interesting, as you'll basically be charged 5p for every MB you consume, which equates to £50 for a single GB of data.
> 
> Alternatively, you can go for the iPad Daily scheme: £2 for 200MB per day, from midnight to midnight.
> 
> ...


----------



## grit (May 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's Orange's charges which go right up to £50 for a GB!!!



Fuck that! razor blade to a pre pay sim is the way to go


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 7, 2010)

Iirc those PAYG prices are not what you'd call competitive with payg dongles. (The monthly charges are about the same.)


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 7, 2010)

Sim mod how too

http://www.johnbenson.net/How_to_Co..._a_SIM_to_a_MicroSIM_with_a_Meat_Cleaver.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 7, 2010)

Wow crap prices for hardware and data...


----------



## rbs bob (May 7, 2010)

Great Apps for the iPad!!

http://www.uselessjunk.com/article_full.php?id=114584


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 7, 2010)

I'd have to think twice about bothering with a 3G version if the payg prices are going to be that shit. I'm not prepared to add another fifteen quid onto my current bills for broadband, phone and dongle. I could always get a mifi router and plug the dongle into that - not as convenient obviously but noticeably cheaper and would still give me 3G access while mobile.


----------



## WWWeed (May 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wow crap prices for hardware and data...



I know! who would have thought it?


----------



## teuchter (May 8, 2010)

.


----------



## editor (May 10, 2010)

Look familiar?!






http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2010/05/the-camangi-webstation-as-an-ebook-reader.html








Elsewhere, Jailbroken iPad gets Bluetooth mouse support. Which is handy:
http://mashable.com/2010/05/09/ipad-magic-mouse


----------



## elbows (May 10, 2010)

iPad pre-orders are now live on the online uk apple store as of about 10 mins ago.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 10, 2010)

*Apple iPad is announced*

Be interesting to see how big the sales will be...


----------



## Winot (May 10, 2010)

£429 for 16GB with Wifi.

I had hoped they would bring it in under £400.


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

Finger hovering over pre-order button.. argh!!!


----------



## ovaltina (May 10, 2010)

Archos has launched an Android based tablet for £130 with USB and 3g... http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...home-tablet-a-sub-euro150-tablet-1969868.html

I'd still rather have a netbook, but this makes the ipad look a bit pricey!


----------



## Crispy (May 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Look familiar?!



Yeah, they both look like Delicious Library

Also, I bet that Archos is exactly as good as you'd expect it to be for £130. I've never seen a product of theirs worth owning.


----------



## ovaltina (May 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, they both look like Delicious Library
> 
> Also, I bet that Archos is exactly as good as you'd expect it to be for £130. I've never seen a product of theirs worth owning.



Well the review is less than glowing: 





> When it comes to the touch screen browsing don't expect an iPad-like experience. There is no multi-touch support and the onscreen input often felt slow and unresponsive. There is also no support for Flash.



But it shows what it's possible to put together for £130 when there's no Apple premium (or software).


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> Well the review is less than glowing:
> 
> But it shows what it's possible to put together for £130 when there's no Apple premium (or software).



It shows how shit it is then?


----------



## Winot (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Finger hovering over pre-order button.. argh!!!



Already done I'm afraid... shameless fanboy...


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

Winot said:


> Already done I'm afraid... shameless fanboy...



Am delaying to find out about SIM deals, am off to Vegas next week so may get one there.


----------



## editor (May 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Also, I bet that Archos is exactly as good as you'd expect it to be for £130. I've never seen a product of theirs worth owning.


Do you think the iPad represents good value then?


----------



## fjydj (May 10, 2010)

Winot said:


> Already done I'm afraid... shameless fanboy...



 is there a "pick up in store" option on the pre orders? i can't see it if there is.


----------



## Winot (May 10, 2010)

fjydj said:


> is there a "pick up in store" option on the pre orders? i can't see it if there is.



Not sure - getting mine delivered to work.


----------



## Crispy (May 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Do you think the iPad represents good value then?


Can't say for sure until I've tried one out.

My suspicion is that it'll be like apple's other products. Over-priced when considered on specifications, but having ease-of-use that isn't available at any price from anyone else. Also, this is the first version of the hardware, which is always more expensive. I suspect that the 2nd or 3rd iteration of the ipad will be much more competitive on price, as seen with the ipod and iphone.


----------



## editor (May 10, 2010)

I'm sold on the idea of fairly simple media tablet for around the home, but not at Apple's prices. Hopefully there'll be some cheaper Android alternatives coming soon or - more excitingly - HP's rumoured webOS powered affair.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Do you think the iPad represents good value then?



It represents far better value than that other piece of shit does.


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Finger hovering over pre-order button.. argh!!!





Winot said:


> Already done I'm afraid... shameless fanboy...



You should wait til end of this year where OS 4 will be implemented into it, which supports multitasking (though limited) and probably a front camera for iChat...


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

ooo said:


> You should wait til end of this year where OS 4 will be implemented into it, which supports multitasking (though limited) and probably a front camera for iChat...



Or get it now and just upgrade to OS4 later in the year... I'm quite capable of the upgrade process, why wait?

I thought OS4 was due around June.


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Or get it now and just upgrade to OS4 later in the year...
> 
> I thought OS4 was due around June.



For iPhone, yes.
But for iPad, it's end of this year.

I'm unsure you'll be able to upgrade to OS 4 because of iPad hardware specs...


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

Anyway, wouldn't it be cheaper by then?


----------



## Crispy (May 10, 2010)

ooo said:


> I'm unsure you'll be able to upgrade to OS 4 because of iPad hardware specs...


Serious?


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

ooo said:


> Anyway, wouldn't it be cheaper by then?



Not bothered about cost really. I want to have a play with one, buggered if I'm waiting till the end of the year. 

I also doubt very much Apple would be stupid enough to make OS4 incompatible with the current iPad. That would piss a fuckton of people off.

Anyway...if iPad 2 comes out, iPad 1 becomes the g/f's iPad (if it's worth the upgrade etc)


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Serious?



I'm unsure, sorry.



Kanda said:


> Not bothered about cost really. I want to have a play with one, buggered if I'm waiting till the end of the year.
> 
> I also doubt very much Apple would be stupid enough to make OS4 incompatible with the current iPad. That would piss a fuckton of people off.
> 
> Anyway...if iPad 2 comes out, iPad 1 becomes the g/f's iPad (if it's worth the upgrade etc)



I played with one.
It's ok.  
It's a little heavy to hold.


----------



## elbows (May 10, 2010)

OS4 for iPad is scheduled for autumn, so a little earlier than the end of the year.

And it will work on the current iPads, I have no doubt about this at all. OS4 multitasking works on iphone 3GS so its bound to work on iPad, and there arent going to be new models of iPads for some time.


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

So no front camera on iPad soon?
That sucks.


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

I've never used the front facing camera on my Macbook.. not bothered.


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I've never used the front facing camera on my Macbook.. not bothered.



For video chat, it's handy.


----------



## elbows (May 10, 2010)

ooo said:


> So no front camera on iPad soon?
> That sucks.



Well I have no way to be sure when the next models may come out, but it would be surprise me a lot to see them before 2011. Maybe if sales were horrible and their research indicated that everyone was waiting for a front camera then they would speed up their plans, maybe they would want something new for the Christmas market, but generally Id expect at least 12 months between models.


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

ooo said:


> For video chat, it's handy.



I live with my girlfriend, I don't need to videowank across the internet


----------



## fogbat (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I live with my girlfriend, I don't need to videowank across the internet



Got to be worth a go, surely?

Different rooms of the house, both frenziedly rubbing one out, like randy monkeys? It'd spice things up, that's for sure.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I live with my girlfriend, I don't need to videowank across the internet



And even if you did, you could use your MacBook anyway!


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> And even if you did, you could use your MacBook anyway!



Exactly


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 10, 2010)

£10 a month for O2's 1GB per data plan. Sounds good to me.


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

Is 1GB a month enough?
I imagine the scenarios of the iPad being used at home watching lots vids.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 10, 2010)

ooo said:


> Is 1GB a month enough?
> I imagine the scenarios of the iPad being used at home watching lots vids.



I have WiFi at home.


----------



## tarannau (May 10, 2010)

Yeah, but you'd use the wireless network at home for that.

Having 3g as your only network connection would be rubbish tbf


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 10, 2010)

Just out of interest, I use my iphone a little bit, for lunchtime browsing or odd lookups quickly...

My data usage in nearly 2 years is... 1067MB.

So yes, 1GB a month will be more than sufficient.


----------



## elbows (May 10, 2010)

I pre-ordered the 32GB Wifi model last night. Now there is something of a race against time for me to get the iPad & start developing on it before the company I presently work for goes bust!


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Having 3g as your only network connection would be rubbish tbf



I wonder how many will use the iPad outside their home?

My friend in the States told me he've already seen some are used in the subway


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 10, 2010)

I fully intended to use it outside my home, and I really couldn't give a fuck what you think.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 10, 2010)

Yeah, you know what - I might as well. I'll end up buying one anyway, I can feel it, so I might as well do it now.


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

ooo said:


> I wonder how many will use the iPad outside their home?
> 
> My friend in the States told me he've already seen some are used in the subway



Saw a girl in Starbucks with one this morning. 

People use laptops on trains/buses/starbucks/park benches etc.. why shouldn't they use iPads in the same way??


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

I'm a mac user and do use my mac outside once in a while.
Just that, I'm getting annoyed by all things Apple at the moment.  I'm disappointed by their progress and damn marketing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Saw a girl in Starbucks with one this morning.
> 
> People use laptops on trains/buses/starbucks/park benches etc.. why shouldn't they use iPads in the same way??



Best place for one I would have thought - laptops, you end up elbowing people, but phones are too small to do anything serious with.


----------



## tarannau (May 10, 2010)

I'm not too sure why tbh. Apple's marketing seems fairly restrained compared to the past if anything - there's nothing as ambitious as the 1984 ad, nothing as iconic as the ipod silhouettes, nothing as annoying as the 'I'm a Mac' campaign. It seems almost, whisper it quietly, pretty functional and underplayed if anything

As for progress, they seem to be doing alright for themselves. Laptops sales up, ipod and iphone a raging success, ipad doing pretty darn well for a new product. Not sure what else you could expect.


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

Progress as in innovation.
I thought the OS4 annoucement was a little embarrassing.
Nothing's really new.  Trying to fix/provide things other phones already do.
Perhaps I expected too much of them...


----------



## Kanda (May 10, 2010)

They've only been in the phone business a short time. The iPad has just come out and shipped a million in the US alone... 

What DID you expect?


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

I expected it could make me coffee 

... well, built-in SD card slot for one.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 10, 2010)

Kanda said:


> They've only been in the phone business a short time. The iPad has just come out and shipped a million in the US alone...
> 
> What DID you expect?


----------



## ooo (May 10, 2010)

I've just sent myself a moon on a stick 

What a useless site.


----------



## editor (May 11, 2010)

Guardian's got a useful price comparison for you wild impetuous folks buying the iPad without even seeing the thing:



> Orange, meanwhile, does not allow users of its pay as you go, daily or weekly offers to access wi-fi hotspots. The two monthly packages that it offers – at £15 and £25 a month – do come with wi-fi access but that access is capped at a rather paltry 750MB. The reason, it would seem, is that Orange customers can not only access BT's 3,800 Openzone hotspots, but also a further 150,000 BT Business Hubs, giving users a total of 153,800 places in which they can browse the web over wi-fi.
> 
> O2, however, allows anyone signing up to its three tariffs unlimited wi-fi access to BT Openzone hotspots as well as locations operated by The Cloud. In total that will give iPad users with O2 access to wi-fi in 7,500 places across the country.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (May 11, 2010)

The O2 deal looks good, with the cloud access...

Whether that makes it worth the extra £100 for the 3G model though, I don't know.


----------



## Kanda (May 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Guardian's got a useful price comparison for you wild impetuous folks buying the iPad without even seeing the thing:



We have one at work....


----------



## tarannau (May 11, 2010)

had my first play on one at work today too. Very slick unsurprisingly.

It still needs customised content to make it compelling, but the momentum of the launch mean that some decent developments seem to be on their way


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Guardian's got a useful price comparison for you wild impetuous folks buying the iPad without even seeing the thing:



I have seen one. Haven't you had a review copy yet?


----------



## editor (May 11, 2010)

Kanda said:


> We have one at work....


Haven't you already ordered one? An _awful _lot of people pre-order such Apple things without actually seeing one first, you know.

Some even stand in queues for days on end!


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 11, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The O2 deal looks good, with the cloud access...
> 
> Whether that makes it worth the extra £100 for the 3G model though, I don't know.



This is the decision that's holding up my pre-order atm.


----------



## Kanda (May 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Haven't you already ordered one?



Nope.


----------



## Kanda (May 11, 2010)

editor said:


> An _awful _lot of people pre-order such Apple things without actually seeing one first, you know.



Do they really? Source?


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 11, 2010)

No one ever queues for anything else, mind. There were no overnight queues for say, the PS3, Xbox 360, or the Palm Pre. Well, certainly not the last one.


----------



## elbows (May 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Haven't you already ordered one? An _awful _lot of people pre-order such Apple things without actually seeing one first, you know.
> 
> Some even stand in queues for days on end!



Most of the stuff I buy I dont see first, Apple or not, I read about it and look at videos. This strategy worked worst for me in the earlier part of the last decade, where I bought some right lemons in the 'tablet/mobile windows-based crap' category. Its worked out much better for me in the last 5 years, funnily enough since I switched to mostly Apple products 

For my sins I did queue at an Apple store once, for the Leopard launch, never again! I didnt queue early though, I just got on the train to Birmingham after work and waited for the 6pm store reopening horror.


----------



## maldwyn (May 11, 2010)

David Hockney swaps a sketch pad for an iPad


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 11, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> David Hockney swaps a sketch pad for an iPad


but you can't create anything on an iPad!!!! it's for passive consumer sheep buying censored books from $teve Job$!!!!! etc etc yawn


----------



## editor (May 11, 2010)

The Telegraph's take on buying the iPad now. Sounds like good advice to me. 





> Only the most rabid and unapologetic gadget fans and early adopters can justify buying the first generation of a new product. By this time next year, Apple is almost certain to have a new iPad on the market, likely with an integrated camera, more storage, and other bells and whistles, while developers will have created a swathe of new apps that really make the best of the iPad's slick user interface. The second- and third-generation iPads will benefit from better features and functionality, and an ecosystem of software and applications that will transform the computing experience. I'm hanging on to my cash until then.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7710838/10-reasons-why-I-wont-be-buying-an-iPad.html


----------



## Crispy (May 11, 2010)

yep, all true. but I _want_ one now!


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 11, 2010)

Reason One:

"I don't need one"

Yeah, cos that's often a factor with the "most rabid and unapologetic gadget fans and early adopters". 

Besides, surely the Tories who read that can afford to get one now and one when the new one's released anyway. No bother. Just send the butler for it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 11, 2010)

The other 9 points are however about how much the author thinks it sucks, including the old favourites "it's not a laptop replacement", "it's just a big iPod Touch", "no camera", "no multitasking", "it's style over substance" and "NO FLASH".

I would say "don't buy an iPad if you think it sucks" is fairly good advice in general.


----------



## editor (May 11, 2010)

Crispy said:


> yep, all true. but I _want_ one now!


Can't argue with that


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 11, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The other 9 points are however about how much the author thinks it sucks, including the old favourites "it's not a laptop replacement", "it's just a big iPod Touch", "no camera", "no multitasking", "it's style over substance" and "NO FLASH".
> 
> I would say "don't buy an iPad if you think it sucks" is fairly good advice in general.



Thank god we've got the Telegraph to point this stuff out for us, eh?


----------



## maldwyn (May 11, 2010)

Where would we be without early adopters? 

Personally, I'm happy with my MBP - but would be well interested come Ipad g3/g4.


----------



## elbows (May 11, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with being an early adopter as long as you are fully aware of the implications and wont throw a fit when better or cheaper models arrive.

There are already just about enough apps to make it worthwhile for me, although as you know I also plan to develop on it which is more than enough justification for getting one now.


----------



## editor (May 11, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Thank god we've got the Telegraph to point this stuff out for us, eh?


Not everyone is as smarmily knowledgeable as you and some mere mortals pondering over whether the iPad is for them or not may have found the article useful, Mr Condescending.


----------



## moose (May 11, 2010)

Well I finally got my order of 100, only a month later than promised by Apple. We've been having a bit of a 'mare with them - quite different to the phone for developers, particularly sorting out portrait/landscape orientation.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

moose said:


> Well I finally got my order of 100, only a month later than promised by Apple. We've been having a bit of a 'mare with them - quite different to the phone for developers, particularly sorting out portrait/landscape orientation.


What kind of problems have you been getting? And why did you buy some many of the things in the first place!


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 12, 2010)

> Only the most rabid and unapologetic gadget fans and early adopters can justify buying the first generation of a new product. By this time next year, Apple is almost certain to have a new iPad on the market



the plum gets paid to write that crap as well... the whole early adopter thing (esp with Apple products) is about *hardware issues* that may arise, it has nothing to do with a better product being released at a later date.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> the plum gets paid to write that crap as well... the whole early adopter thing (esp with Apple products) is about *hardware issues* that may arise, it has nothing to do with a better product being released at a later date.


Nah, it's also about refining the _software_, just like what happened with the iPhone.

I wouldn't even look at a smartphone without any copy and paste and all the other fairly rudimentary software stuff that was missing from the first iPhone, but by the 3GS it had become a great handset because of the improved hardware _and_ software.


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Nah, it's also about refining the _software_, just like what happened with the iPhone.
> 
> I wouldn't even look at a smartphone without any copy and paste and all the other fairly rudimentary software stuff that was missing from the first iPhone, but by the 3GS it had become a great handset because of the improved hardware _and_ software.



The whole early adopter thing is with regards to _potential_ hardware issues, something Apple was known for - hence the reason a lot of Apple purchasers would wait for the second or third release.

Software is just an update to the hardware you have already purchased.

So far the iPad doesn't appear to have any _hardware_ issues, hence the reason I would be quite happy picking one up in a few weeks.


----------



## moose (May 12, 2010)

editor said:


> What kind of problems have you been getting? And why did you buy some many of the things in the first place!



Client want's 'em. They're going on a stand at a huge oncology congress in Chicago, and we've put loads of medical animation, slides and stuff about breast cancer on them. There's a quiz app for doctors to do, that makes them wander round the booth looking at video and graphic panels to get the answers. The security tags we've stuck on them are almost bigger than the iPads.  

Because we didn't have the devices when we started programming, we were using emulators, and it all seemed to be working fine, but when we got it on the actual iPad, the top and bottom of the screen image kept disappearing, and sometimes it sticks when you rotate the device. We've had a hasty rewrite and sorted it out, but it nearly gave me a heart attack! Also had some issues with scrolling - because resolution is higher than iPhone, the file sizes are bigger and they don't draw on screen quick enough to scroll smoothly. We're going to have to live with that.

Some poor bastard is going to have to sync all 100 in a hotel room in Chicago  in a couple of weeks, but not me


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> So far the iPad doesn't appear to have any _hardware_ issues, hence the reason I would be quite happy picking one up in a few weeks.


Apart from the lack of a camera, built in USB, HDMI port, SD card slots etc etc, some of which will be likely to turn up in v2.

Think: video on the iPhone.


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2010)

None of those items will be forthcoming, except the camera. If you don't want a forward-facing camera, then IMO, there is nothing wrong with the hardware.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> None of those items will be forthcoming, except the camera. If you don't want a forward-facing camera, then IMO, there is nothing wrong with the hardware.


It's not about what's 'wrong' with v1, it's about the overall package, and quite a few informed observers have been known to remark that it's generally best to avoid v1 of a new product.

In fact, I'm pretty sure you've said that yourself!


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2010)

Yes I have, because there's usually faults with that hardware. So far, there don't appear to be any with the ipad. The 'overall package' is unlikely to change much - maybe it'll gain a camera, but you can count USB or SD out.


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 12, 2010)

I'll wait till 2025 then when the fucking thing can beam me up scotty.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Yes I have, because there's usually faults with that hardware. So far, there don't appear to be any with the ipad. The 'overall package' is unlikely to change much - maybe it'll gain a camera, but you can count USB or SD out.


HDMI out would be very, very useful for a tablet device. It would be perfect for lecturers and back up the iPad's media and gaming capabilities.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that in v2/v3 as well as a camera.


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2010)

You'll see it via a dock adaptor, not a socket


----------



## tarannau (May 12, 2010)

I'd be very surprised myself. Apple are moving to DisplayPort rather than HDMI for a start.

And besides there's the trusty old dock connector, which will soon offer the 3rd party add-ons most need. If you're waiting for that exact spec you're doomeed to be waiting for some time - indeed they seem the kind of requirements that you know Apple aren't going to offer.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I'd be very surprised myself. Apple are moving to DisplayPort rather than HDMI for a start.
> 
> And besides there's the trusty old dock connector, which will soon offer the 3rd party add-ons most need. If you're waiting for that exact spec you're doomeed to be waiting for some time - indeed they seem the kind of requirements that you know Apple aren't going to offer.


OK, well a useful built-in display port of some description that doesn't involve additional parts.

Dock on connectors are not an elegant or particularly Apple-like solution - unless you're seriously going to contend that you'd be just as happy having to lug around easily lost/forgotten bits of cables and plastic than having a proper built in port.

My Sony Vaio had a similar feature and it was always a source of anxiety when I was on my way to a lecture. Built in is always best.


----------



## Kanda (May 12, 2010)

I think you're still viewing it as a laptop/netbook. It's clearly not.


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Dock on connectors are not an elegant or particularly Apple-like solution



Every non-tower apple computer for the last christ know how many years has needed a dongle adapter for VGA/HDMI/Video/Component output. It is very much an apple-like solution.


----------



## Kanda (May 12, 2010)

My component out for my iPhone sits hanging out the back of my TV. I never carry it anywhere.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Every non-tower apple computer for the last  christ know how many years has needed a dongle adapter for  VGA/HDMI/Video/Component output. It is very much an apple-like  solution.


Don't MacBooks have built in SD card slots and USB ports rather than  dongles?


Kanda said:


> I think you're still viewing it as a laptop/netbook. It's clearly not.


I'm viewing it as a handy media device that can replace laptops for some tasks - isn't that why companies are already making presentation software for the iPad?

Still, I'm getting the message here. A total lack of useful, built in ports is not a shortcoming, it's actually a great Apple feature and therefore must be defended at all costs, regardless of the logic.


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2010)

yes, that's right. we are mindless fanboi$, defending the motherjobs at all costs


----------



## Kanda (May 12, 2010)

We just have different expectations for the device and it's capabilities. The sooner YOU deal with that the better really


----------



## tarannau (May 12, 2010)

Oh please. Nobody's defending anything.

But for a tech writer, you seem to be remarkably quick to set up a list of requirements and features that you must know that - both historically and logically - Apple will not provide. And then you'll keep repeating these points ad nauseum as things that stop you personally buying an ipad. 

It's much like the list of shortcomings you had for the iphone. As I and others said then, these will be minor and surmountable concerns for the vast majority of purchasers, a point subsequently borne out by the vast (initial and beyond) sales of the platform. It seems a weirdly uninformed and somewhat limiting posture tbh.


----------



## elbows (May 12, 2010)

Waa waa the iTedious lacks a stuck record bypass filter.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Don't MacBooks have built in SD card slots and USB ports rather than  dongles?



How are those used for video out??


----------



## elbows (May 12, 2010)

Came across this site which is dedicated to highlighting iPad apps that look good visually, via full-res screenshots.

http://landingpad.org/


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 13, 2010)

UK release put back to June...?

http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3223366


----------



## elbows (May 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> UK release put back to June...?
> 
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3223366



No all that means is that all the initial available stock has now been pre-ordered, so people going to order from now on are seeing a later delivery date.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 13, 2010)

Sorry, yeah. That should have said "Shipping date".

Still, might just walk into the Apple store anyway.


----------



## paolo (May 16, 2010)

Been playing with the one in the office that arrived a few days ago.

Only five minutes or so, mainly browsing. It's soooo fast and smooth at scroll and zoom, it makes it really tactile. Really a joy to browse with. And it doesn't do that shitty rerendering thing that the iPhone does when you flip between browsing windows.


----------



## Structaural (May 16, 2010)

Interesting email exchange between gawker journo and puritan jobs:

http://gawker.com/5539717/steve-jobs-offers-world-freedom-from-porn


----------



## grit (May 16, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Interesting email exchange between gawker journo and puritan jobs:
> 
> http://gawker.com/5539717/steve-jobs-offers-world-freedom-from-porn



I see where the gawker chap is coming from, however his emails read horribly for someone who is supposed to be a professional writer. He gets too emotional.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 16, 2010)

Steve Jobs seems happy enough to mix it up with random drunk people on the Internet at 2am. Perhaps he's a secret urbanite


----------



## paolo (May 16, 2010)

grit said:


> I see where the gawker chap is coming from, however his emails read horribly for someone who is supposed to be a professional writer. He gets too emotional.



And Gawker have proved themselves to be in a poor position to be delivering ethical lectures.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 17, 2010)

I doubt that'll stop them. Everyone on the internet with a website and a vague interest thinks they're the tech 2nd coming, these days.


----------



## Gromit (May 17, 2010)

Anyone watch the F1 coverage and note the presenter waving a iPad around.

Got on my tits tbh. Why didn't he just put it down during broadcasts and pick it up inbetween broadcasts.

Or is it a feature that they glue themselves to your hand?

It was several hours before it became apparent why he had it at all. He was using it to read the Beeb's F1 twtiter feed. Suppose it was a good device for this rather than having to hold a laptop.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 17, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Anyone watch the F1 coverage



No.


----------



## Kanda (May 17, 2010)

Gromit said:


> It was several hours before it became apparent why he had it at all. He was using it to read the Beeb's F1 twtiter feed. Suppose it was a good device for this rather than having to hold a laptop.



Several hours?? He read the twitter feed numerous times from it before the race even started...! lol


----------



## Gromit (May 17, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Several hours?? He read the twitter feed numerous times from it before the race even started...! lol


 
I didn't notice till the end. Although I admit I fast forwarded many bits as I was watching it one hour late on Sky Plus.


----------



## Kanda (May 17, 2010)

So it got on your tits that he was using an iPad whilst you were fast forwarding...


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Suppose it was a good device for this rather than having to hold a laptop.



Phone would have been better, sounds like product placement to be honest.


----------



## tarannau (May 17, 2010)

Product placement? You're having a laugh aren't you. I'm guessing that it probably seemed more attractive a prospect than holding a laptop out and - frankly - it's of the moment and not exactly crowded out by other competitor tablet devices. 

You seem to have some weird, if not barkingly paranoid,  views of how marketing and brands work. Wasn't it also you who claimed that Apple must have deliberately leaked the 4g iphone to Gizmodo as a PR stunt too?


----------



## editor (May 17, 2010)

Interesting snippet. It looks like some trendy mags are going to have to rethink their content or stay off the iPad gravy train altogether.


> Magazines planning to launch iPad editions for the Apple's glossy e-Reader device will have to censor themselves to make into Apple's No Porn app store, I heard yesterday.
> 
> And we're not just talking about Nuts; "edgier" fashion magazines like Dazed & Confused and Vice will have to seriously cut back on nudity in photography and fashion shoots. New fashion bible LOVE famously launched a first edition with a naked photo shoot of Beth Ditto. That would not be alright with Steve Jobs.
> 
> ...


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Product placement? You're having a laugh aren't you. I'm guessing that it probably seemed more attractive a prospect than holding a laptop out and - frankly - it's of the moment and not exactly crowded out by other competitor tablet devices.
> 
> You seem to have some weird, if not barkingly paranoid,  views of how marketing and brands work. Wasn't it also you who claimed that Apple must have deliberately leaked the 4g iphone to Gizmodo as a PR stunt too?



The device has been used in product placement situations already, product placement is a common tool used. Wasnt there an arrested development episode or something that centered around the launch?

Whats paranoid about the possibility of it being used as product placement?

I was of the view that the leak was a PR stunt, what I said was that if Apple didnt want it online it wouldn't be. True to form the guys door was kicked in by request of jobs. It wasnt until Apple made a move that I accepted it was the real deal. Frankly I thought they would have been quicker off the mark but I guess even if your a billionaire there is only so much you can do in a week.

Edit: weird I thought I had your ramblings on ignore.


----------



## Gromit (May 17, 2010)

Kanda said:


> So it got on your tits that he was using an iPad whilst you were fast forwarding...


 
It was the reason I started fast forwarding. The worst being when he looked at his watch with it in his hand. Oh ffs just put the fucking thing down if you aren't going to look at it right now.


----------



## Kanda (May 17, 2010)

You have way too much time to get pissed off with shit that really has no affect on you


----------



## Gromit (May 17, 2010)

grit said:


> Phone would have been better, sounds like product placement to be honest.


 
Nah he'd have looked stupid bringing a phone up to squint closly at whilst on TV. 

Instead he could just glance down and read the pad at arm's length.


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Nah he'd have looked stupid bringing a phone up to squint closly at whilst on TV.
> 
> Instead he could just glance down and read the pad at arm's length.



They are 140 character messages, any modern smart phone would display them at readable distance and.. ah fuck it this isint even worth commenting on


----------



## Gromit (May 17, 2010)

grit said:


> They are 140 character messages, any modern smart phone would display them at readable distance and.. ah fuck it this isint even worth commenting on


 
Even outside on a very sunny day on yaght?


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Even outside on a very sunny day on yaght?



Easier to give shade to a smaller screen than a bigger one, I really wish I had the self control not to get involved with these trivial arguments, but I just dont


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 17, 2010)

grit said:


> Phone would have been better, sounds like product placement to be honest.



he used to use his phone but now he uses his ipad I'd assume this is because it's what he's issued...

I'm also assuming that we've gone past the point of picking up presenters for using the provided technology when presenting too....


----------



## editor (May 20, 2010)

Thanks to bad publicity, Apple have now dropped their ridiculous 'credit/debit card only' policy for buying iPads.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/20/apple-now-accepting-cash-for-its-cold-hard-ipads-video/

Talking of ridiculous (and admittedly only half on topic - sorry) this woman's $60m law suit accusing Apple's company employees of waiting like "vultures" to spy on her every time she used an Apple laptop to access the internet, has been laughed out of court. She sounds a bit  like the old urban nutcase windsor.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/358093/woman-fails-in-bid-to-sue-apples-greedy-vultures


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2010)

8m predicted sales in 2010!! http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/20/analyst-raises-2010-ipad-sales-estimate-to-8-million/

Blimey.


----------



## Gromit (May 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> 8m predicted sales in 2010!! http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/20/analyst-raises-2010-ipad-sales-estimate-to-8-million/
> 
> Blimey.


 
I can't see it selling in bucketloads until the iPad2 comes out with a cheaper mass market price.

Thats how iPhones started selling in real bulk.


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I can't see it selling in bucketloads until the iPad2 comes out with a cheaper mass market price.
> 
> Thats how iPhones started selling in real bulk.



8mill isn't bucketloads??


----------



## tarannau (May 20, 2010)

This is Apple. They won't make it particularly cheap or drop the price massively. Looking at its place in the Apple product matrix I doubt it's going to drop that noticeably in price for the forseeable - expect incremental changes and more power for the same money if anything.


----------



## Gromit (May 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> 8mill isn't bucketloads??


 
Not compared to 41 million it isn't.


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Not compared to 41 million it isn't.



Why are you bothering to compare it to a phone?

That's like me comparing Mars bar sales to Volkswagen sales...


----------



## Gromit (May 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Why are you bothering to compare it to a phone?
> 
> That's like me comparing Mars bar sales to Volkswagen sales...


 
1. The iPad is nothing more than a giant iPhone / iPod.
2. I'm comparing it with a product aimed at exactly the same target market. 
3. iPhone and IPad are both high tech gadgets. 
4. A Mars bar is a food and a Volkswagon is a vehicle. They don't sit in a grouping together so its nothing at like mars v Volks you numpty.


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2010)

I was pissing about 

Still don't think you can compare it to iPhone sales.

E2A: iPhone cost is free or up to £100 or something.. these are £430-£699.


----------



## Gromit (May 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I was pissing about
> 
> Still don't think you can compare it to iPhone sales.
> 
> E2A: iPhone cost is free or up to £100 or something.. these are £430-£699.


 
you missed out...


.... on contract.

Trying buying pay as you go to see the real cost.


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2010)

Gromit said:


> you missed out...
> 
> 
> .... on contract.
> ...



Yeah, of course, I wonder how many of that 41mill are PAYG though..


----------



## editor (May 20, 2010)

8 million iPad sales is a mighty big figure no matter how you spin it, although these analysts types can get it horribly wrong.

For example, the death of the netbook was being widely forecast by some eggy faced 'experts' last year, whereas it's been estimated that there'll be 58 million of the wee blighters sold this year - way ahead of the 36m sold in 2009.
‎

http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...sales_death_greatly_exaggerated_says_analyst?
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2263218/abi-research-conservative


----------



## Gromit (May 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Yeah, of course, I wonder how many of that 41mill are PAYG though..


 
Even if the majority of them are on contract they've still paid the PAYG price, only its been spread over 18-24 months (with interest) instead of upfront.

£45 a month contract with phone instead of a £20 contract giving exactly the same (if not more) calls and txts but no phone.

Hmm where does that extra £25 come from?


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2010)

CBA


----------



## elbows (May 21, 2010)

Well I can be an extreme geek now because my iPad order is starting its journey from China, I can track it on the TNT site. Will I be a happy man this time next week or frustrated and padless? Stay tuned for this less than gripping tale of one man and his quest to finally have a tablet that does not completely suck, a mere 6,7 or 8 years (cant quite remember) since I first wanted one.


----------



## Kanda (May 22, 2010)

I should have mine on Monday if my mate can be arsed to bring me one back from Vegas  64GB + 3G.


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 22, 2010)

moose said:


> Well I finally got my order of 100, only a month later than promised by Apple. We've been having a bit of a 'mare with them - quite different to the phone for developers, particularly sorting out portrait/landscape orientation.



Funny you should say that, my brother is an app developer, his company has had a nightmare with their order of Mac Book Pros and ipads too, six weeks late and counting _and_ he's on a deadline.


----------



## elbows (May 24, 2010)

Oh dear oh dear, I should not have started tracking my order, its bringing out the worst in me. It got stuck not going anywhere in China for 3 days, and I had researched when the plane was leaving HK, and time was running out. But my iPad finally turned up in Hong Kong, fingers crossed there are no further delays, I may even get it a day early (Thursday).

Depending on the model & accessories, some iPads are being shipped from within the UK and Europe so some people may get theirs several days early assuming Apple arent blocking early delivery.


----------



## grit (May 24, 2010)

pinkmonkey said:


> Funny you should say that, my brother is an app developer, his company has had a nightmare with their order of Mac Book Pros and ipads too, six weeks late and counting _and_ he's on a deadline.



Why wouldnt you just grab some petty cash and buy it off the shelf if you are under that sort of pressure?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 24, 2010)

elbows said:


> Depending on the model & accessories, some iPads are being shipped from within the UK and Europe so some people may get theirs several days early assuming Apple arent blocking early delivery.



I got a "shipped" email today, but there's no estimated delivery date or tracking facility.


----------



## Winot (May 24, 2010)

Odd.  Mine shipped on 22 May and had a track my order button - when I clicked it yesterday it had an estimated delivery of 28 May but that has now been replaced by a product code.


----------



## elbows (May 25, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I got a "shipped" email today, but there's no estimated delivery date or tracking facility.



If you login to the US Apple store you may be able to see more info such as courier and tracking number. 

Still from what Ive read from people so far, many of the tracking numbers arent working properly yet. Likely if your iPad is starting its journey in europe or the UK its too early for the tracking number to be valid, but ones that are coming straight from China like mine had to start their journey much earlier so the tracking already works.

Having said that I still havent received any kind of email confirmation, I found out mine had shipped by logging onto the store and order tracking that way.


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 25, 2010)

grit said:


> Why wouldnt you just grab some petty cash and buy it off the shelf if you are under that sort of pressure?



You couldn't just buy an ipad off the shelf, not yet anyway...it was a huge order, they couldn't just swan in to pc world..  Apparently it was something to do with a revised OS but Apple wouldn't tell him anything, he found out what the problem was from a blog!


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2010)

Well the ipads that came straight from China have made it to the netherlands and beyond, and orders that are starting their final journey from the UK have started to show up for people on the TNT & UPS tracking sites. There is a fair amount of evidence that some people are going to get theirs tomorrow, although mine is lagging behind somewhat so Im thinking Friday is more likely for me.


----------



## ooo (May 26, 2010)

Ours was from Hong Kong.
It took ages to arrive 'cos of the volcanic ashes.
Does your version come with Winnie the Pooh iBook??


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2010)

Yeah their factory is in China but very close to HK. Mine got delayed a bit when it first left the factory due to Lord Buddhas Birthday holiday in HK, so I dont know if I will get it tomorrow or Friday.

Im not sure about the Winnie the Pooh ibook, it probably will unless there are some different copyright/licensing issues in the UK for that title.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2010)

Also can I just say how relieved I am that the iPad appears to be a hit. I was bemused and a tad concerned when the iPad was first announced because of all the people that were not impressed and were underwhelmed by the announcement. But it seems that its doing rather well which is great news for me as its been many years that Ive been hoping and wondering if the tablet format would ever catch on. 

Im going to feel quite ashamed to wave mine around in front of people because I really dont like posing, but at the same time I am fascinated to discover what people will think of it when they get to see and try one briefly for themselves.


----------



## editor (May 26, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im going to feel quite ashamed to wave mine around in front of people because I really dont like posing, but at the same time I am fascinated to discover what people will think of it when they get to see and try one briefly for themselves.


What else do you go around waving?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 26, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well the ipads that came straight from China have made it to the netherlands and beyond, and orders that are starting their final journey from the UK have started to show up for people on the TNT & UPS tracking sites. There is a fair amount of evidence that some people are going to get theirs tomorrow, although mine is lagging behind somewhat so Im thinking Friday is more likely for me.



Mine's now on the TNT tracker - it claims to be in Nuneaton right now so it sounds like it'll be here tomorrow.

In case anyone was wondering.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2010)

editor said:


> What else do you go around waving?



Not a lot  Ive always struggled with Apples brand and what it can be associated with, I really didnt enjoy that aspect of getting an iphone. And I still find it annoying when my Dad & brother get their iphones out in the pub.

I want to use my ipad at work but I will feel like a bit of a plonker walking round with it.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Mine's now on the TNT tracker - it claims to be in Nuneaton right now so it sounds like it'll be here tomorrow.
> 
> In case anyone was wondering.



Im in Nuneaton, surrounded by ipads at local TNT & UPS depots, but mine isnt one of them


----------



## Gromit (May 26, 2010)

Am I right that in theory I'll be able to WiFi tether an iPad to a broadcasting HTC Desire? Thereby eliminating the need for me to buy the 3G version and a data plan?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 26, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Am I right that in theory I'll be able to WiFi tether an iPad to a broadcasting HTC Desire? Thereby eliminating the need for me to buy the 3G version and a data plan?



Should be possible yes.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Mine's now on the TNT tracker - it claims to be in Nuneaton right now so it sounds like it'll be here tomorrow.



Many people have been calling TNT and have been told they will get it tomorrow, sometimes they are also told that if nobody is in then they will try again on Friday. But some people have also been told that they wont get them till Friday, or worse, so there is a fair amount of confusion about this from some quarters including people within TNT.

Personally for anyone that is unsure, I wouldnt even bother calling them tonight due to the different answers people are getting, call them early tomorrow if your tracker still doesnt say anything useful & conclusive about delivery time.

Not sure there are enough people here with ipads pre-ordered for me to have bothered posting the above but hey I cant stop talking about this, Im making up for the fact that the international delay was announced 2 days before my birthday so I spent a month forgetting all about the ipad so I wouldnt get too impatient.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 26, 2010)

It does say estimated delivery tomorrow on the tracker, as well as it being in Nuneaton. I work from home anyway so it's not really a big deal for picking it up, but I hate hate hate waiting for stuff, I waste the whole day looking out of the window.


----------



## Winot (May 26, 2010)

Mine is now saying estimated delivery tomorrow (by UPS).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 26, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Am I right that in theory I'll be able to WiFi tether an iPad to a broadcasting HTC Desire? Thereby eliminating the need for me to buy the 3G version and a data plan?



Only when the Desire gets the Android 2.2 update, it won't do it atm afaik


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 26, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Am I right that in theory I'll be able to WiFi tether an iPad to a broadcasting HTC Desire? Thereby eliminating the need for me to buy the 3G version and a data plan?



Are there no third party apps that will do it? You've been able to do this on WinMo for yonks.


----------



## Kanda (May 27, 2010)

I wonder if this IS true.. http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/26/microsofts-steve-ballmer-to-present-during-wwdc-2010-keynote/



> Microsoft will reportedly be talking about their development tool Visual Studio 2010. The new version of Visual Studio will reportedly allow developers to write native applications for the iPhone, iPad and Mac OS.



That's huge if so...


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2010)

That would be huge, but not sure how they'd pull it off - you'd need OSX installed somewhere, to run your test builds, and that's only supposed to be installed on apple hardware...


----------



## magneze (May 27, 2010)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/27/ballmer_wwdc/

It's not a rumour. It's a very clever move.



> Right now, if you want to develop iPhone OS apps you need Apple's tools and Apple's computers. Good though they are - this reporter is happy to do his programming in Xcode - this is an area Apple can be more accommodating. Before the advent of Mac OS X, there were a handful of high-level language compilers for the Mac. RealBasic is still around but it remains a minority interest and is of no use to iPhone coders.
> 
> What better for Apple to stress its 'openness' by not only allowing third-parties to create iPhone OS development tools but for the first of them to be the old enemy - a company that now has a smaller market capitalisation than its arch-rival?
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> That would be huge, but not sure how they'd pull it off - you'd need OSX installed somewhere, to run your test builds, and that's only supposed to be installed on apple hardware...



Well if this stuff turns out to be true then I doubt it will be impossible for them to make the ipad emulator work on windows.

Meanwhile my ipad just arrived about 10 minutes ago, the majority of people are indeed receiving them today rather than tomorrow.

Havent used it yet but initial impression from holding it is that its even nicer than my expectations, and my expectations were pretty high. The bezel does not appear quite so stupidly oversized as it looked in the early pictures.


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2010)

If I walk into an apple store tomorrow, I won't be able to get one will I?


----------



## Kanda (May 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> If I walk into an apple store tomorrow, I won't be able to get one will I?



I'll let you know what the queues are like in the morning (I walk past the store at 7am on the way to work) but this may be of use... http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/May2010/Apple-iPad-To-Be-Sold-in-Currys-And-PC-World-At-Launch-3G.html


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> If I walk into an apple store tomorrow, I won't be able to get one will I?



The early bird catches the iPad.

There are also a variety of Currys branches that will have some stock, think there is a list of which branches somewhere online but I dont have a link.

BBC iPlayer for iPad comes out tomorrow too, which is nice.

Still not tried mine, my boss phoned me up and now Ive got to do some work for a bit.


----------



## Kanda (May 27, 2010)

List of DSG stores: http://www.bitterwallet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Apple_iPadStores03.pdf


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2010)

There's an official reseller that I can get to on my way to work who've just confirmed they will be doing first come first served tomorrow morning. Reckon I'll give it a shot.


----------



## editor (May 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> There's an official reseller that I can get to on my way to work who've just confirmed they will be doing first come first served tomorrow morning. Reckon I'll give it a shot.



But you'll miss out on all the:


----------



## hendo (May 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> There's an official reseller that I can get to on my way to work who've just confirmed they will be doing first come first served tomorrow morning. Reckon I'll give it a shot.


 
Hang on, you told me never to buy the first version of an Apple product! What's made you change your mind?


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2010)

hendo said:


> Hang on, you told me never to buy the first version of an Apple product! What's made you change your mind?


it's been out for a while now and there have been no reported hardware issues (which is what the don't buy v1 thing is about)

plus it's really shiny and I want one now or I'm going to sulk

ed: your image is a 'don't hotlink' replacement

if anyone tries to high five me I'll kick them in the shins


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 27, 2010)

where's my feckin iPad


----------



## hendo (May 27, 2010)

There have been a couple of niggles though haven't there, specifically a wifi connection problem reported with some units. 
I totally get it though, I don't care, I want one too.


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2010)

the wifi issue is a software one, apparently


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 27, 2010)

seriously though, where the fuck is my iPad


----------



## Kanda (May 27, 2010)

Mate is gutted, his wife was on the shitter and he has to re-arrange delivery


----------



## sim667 (May 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> the wifi issue is a software one, apparently



I thought it was to do with antennae placement.


----------



## Winot (May 27, 2010)

UPS tracking site now says:

THE RECEIVER WAS UNAVAILABLE TO SIGN ON THE 1ST DELIVERY ATTEMPT. A 2ND DELIVERY ATTEMPT WILL BE MADE 

...except it's to my work address with permanent manned reception and they haven't even fucking tried.


----------



## editor (May 27, 2010)

Crispy said:


> if anyone tries to high five me I'll kick them in the shins


Good on ya'!


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2010)

Oohh its amazing, have only had a brief go with it, the Guardian eyewitness photo app is lovely.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 27, 2010)

Winot said:


> UPS tracking site now says:
> 
> THE RECEIVER WAS UNAVAILABLE TO SIGN ON THE 1ST DELIVERY ATTEMPT. A 2ND DELIVERY ATTEMPT WILL BE MADE
> 
> ...except it's to my work address with permanent manned reception and they haven't even fucking tried.



I swear they're going to try to pull some shit like this with me. I wouldn't have minded if they'd said "yeah it'll come tomorrow", I could have left the house then ffs.


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2010)

Vbulletin forums work real nicely with it, can type pretty fast too.

Almost perfect, though the ideal device would weigh slightly less, would not be able to feel vibrations from speaker, would perhaps have more RAM, no real complaints so far though.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 27, 2010)

shut up you


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2010)

You need to activate it with a computer with itunes don't you?

This will complicate matters if I do get one tomorrow morning...


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> shut up you



Sorry. I think you may have to allow till 7pm before giving up for today, as they have been a bit overwhelmed in some areas. What does your tracker say?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 27, 2010)

Still out for delivery. I have to be somewhere at 7. Luckily it's not far I suppose.


----------



## Kanda (May 27, 2010)

About 10 people queue outside Regent St store lol


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 27, 2010)

> Time Constraint Prevented Delivery. Delivery At First Opportunity


cunts 

now I must run to the pub


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Mate is gutted, his wife was on the shitter and he has to re-arrange delivery



Grounds for divorce if there ever was one...


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

Queues at Apple store are round the block to Hanover Sq


----------



## Strumpet (May 28, 2010)

I want to touch one. NOW.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Queues at Apple store are round the block to Hanover Sq


fuckinell

pcworld on old kent road would be convenient for me, but they don't open till 10


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 28, 2010)

Can someone sum up for me why this is good? It looks pointless.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> fuckinell
> 
> pcworld on old kent road would be convenient for me, but they don't open till 10



Buying a 1st gen model _and_ from PC World? 
Crispy's been assimilated


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

magneze said:


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/27/ballmer_wwdc/
> 
> It's not a rumour. It's a very clever move.



Its not going to happen.


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Buying a 1st gen model _and_ from PC World?
> Crispy's been assimilated


Look what Apple's done to him!

(((Crispy)))


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

Yeah the analyst who originated that story has now said its not happening - yet - claims his timescale was wrong for it to be announced at wwdc.

Meanwhile


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

I bought a new, top of the range router from PC World two weeks ago. Got it home only to discover it was a second hand model - and I'm still waiting for the useless fuckers to sort it out. I don't think I'd by an iPad from there.


----------



## fogbat (May 28, 2010)

Big queues outside the Albion Apple shop on the Strand.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

I went to that shop, got the last 3G 16GB in the store. They handed out registration forms for people who wanted the 3G (so they could get the SIM sorted) and then had to take half of them back cos they only had so many 3G models. So many broken faces!


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

Some more initial impressions from me:

Device is a fair bit faster/smoother than I had expected - this may be because I havent used an iphone 3GS much so Im used to the performance of my overloaded iphone 3G. Fullscreen games with lots going on work really well. Device has certainly exceeded my expectations in this regard and left a very good first impression.

Music apps are much fun on this sized screen, and one of my (yet to be tried) primary uses for this ipad is as a midi & OSC controller for audio & realtime visual apps.

It does not get warm to the touch, which is excellent as this was a serious flaw with other tablets Ive tried in the past, making them uncomfortable to use for long periods. It will apparently shut down due to internal overheating if you take it outside in hot sunny weather and dont keep it in the shade.

There are already enough ipad-specific apps to keep you busy for some days, although the serious depth isnt really there yet.

Deals seem to have been done with a few publishers for iBooks in the uk - I was happy to se Douglas Adams books on it  Books can seem a tad pricey to me compared to other media & apps for the device though. I shalltry other book purchasing options this weekend.

The 3 productivity apps that Apple has made are very well thought out, bound to be room for improvement and not hugely feature rich, but enough for some business uses for sure.

The Reuters photo app is better than the Guardian one, although both show off the screen nicely.

Its certainly going to have a noticeable impact on my energy useage and I have at last been freed from sitting at a desk (I could never get on with using laptops on lap etc).

No wifi problems here, yet.

Its certainly a very good thing that they put a screen orientation lock switch on it, would be quite annoying without it when used at a variety of angles.

Too early to be sure it wont just end up as a gimmick, though it certainly has the potential to cause a few mini-revolutions. Really looking forward to seeing what I can do in regards to ipad-optimised websites/webapps.

I havent been annoyed by lack of flash at all, yet, but suspect I will for video on a few websites at some point.

It will soon be time to see how much of a knob I feel taking it to work.

If you feel like you might want one, you probably really do and will not be disappointed.  If you arent sure, certainly worth waiting until you can try one for 10 mins.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I went to that shop, got the last 3G 16GB in the store. They handed out registration forms for people who wanted the 3G (so they could get the SIM sorted) and then had to take half of them back cos they only had so many 3G models. So many broken faces!



Well done, very keen to hear your impressions once you have had a chance to sync it etc, will that be tonight? 

Gutted for those who thought they were going to get one and didnt, cruel & unusual torture!


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Queues at Apple store are round the block to Hanover Sq








jeeeeeeez


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

Id always love to know what percentage of people who queue want an ipad based purely on the devices merits, as opposed to being influenced by the media stories hyping up the launch & other aspects of herd mentality.

Still if there ever was an apple device worth waiting for, its this one, woooo its not often something outdoes my expectations.


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

elbows said:


> Yeah the analyst who originated that story has now said its not happening - yet - claims his timescale was wrong for it to be announced at wwdc.
> 
> Meanwhile



There is a bunch of different reasons for it not to happen, timing is pretty much the bottom of the list.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

The two people infront, and the person behind me in the (very small) queue weren't buying for themselves. One was buying as many as possible all over town in order to have 10 by next week for a client schmooze. The other two were PAs getting one for their boss.


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

I just got mine from Regent St. 2 x 64GB 3G. They  have fucktons of them but the queue and clapping is atrocious.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

grit said:


> There is a bunch of different reasons for it not to happen, timing is pretty much the bottom of the list.



Well I never say never, but that particular analyst has rather soiled his own credibility so Im going to forget all about that story until such a time as other sources start the same rumour.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I just got mine from Regent St. 2 x 64GB 3G. They  have fucktons of them but the queue and clapping is atrocious.



Yeah after being scarred by my Leopard launch experience at the Apple Bullring store some years ago, I pre-ordered to avoid the whoopfest. But then I got involved with a 100+ page thread on another forum tracking the deliveries, and Ive ended up going woooo on forums several times, which is probably worse!


----------



## tarannau (May 28, 2010)

And I remember you sounding hesitant Kanda. It's good to see the early adopter tendency has continued with both barrels blazing.

Actually I've just remembered I've your SL disk - PM on way (sorry!)


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well I never say never, but that particular analyst has rather soiled his own credibility so Im going to forget all about that story until such a time as other sources start the same rumour.



Its a bit of a ridiculous rumor tbf.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

grit said:


> Its a bit of a ridiculous rumor tbf.



Its certainly not the most likely rumour Ive every heard but there are a couple of reasons why its not necessarily 100% false.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

aaargh, there's no wifi in our office so I can't get on the internet, and you need wifi access in order to register for a 3G account 
(I went for the PAYG £2 a day when you want it option - I'll only use it on trips)


----------



## TitanSound (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> aaargh, there's no wifi in our office so I can't get on the internet, and you need wifi access in order to register for a 3G account



Apple fail


----------



## Badgers (May 28, 2010)

Blend it, blend it, blend it!!


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

TitanSound said:


> Apple fail


O2 fail really


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Blend it, blend it, blend it!!



I always find those videos fun, its great marketing.


----------



## hendo (May 28, 2010)

I went to Westfield this morning, took an hour to buy one. They activated it in the store for me (ed: I saw no high fiving but there was some applause from the apple-people) and now it's sat on my desk, where people are coming to play with it. 
Many of them are impressed after expressing scepticism that it could be any good. Can't seem to get my google contacts into its gorgeous address book app, but I think I may have that sorted by the end of today. And that is my only gripe, this thing is a lovely device that will probably become my digital companion on lonely trips to Manchester etc.

Photos a revelation, iplayer even more so, tweetdeck a pleasure. Safari is so much better on the fast chip, and web pages become almost a tactile experience. There's a sample ibook (Winie the Pooh) which is extraordinary. I'm not even missing flash that much. Ipad owners are at the start of something here, I'm sure the device will evolve as the iphone did.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I just got mine from Regent St. 2 x 64GB 3G. They  have fucktons of them but the queue and clapping is atrocious.



The Apple queue - full of middle class geeks apparently



> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...scenes-at-apple-stores-for-ipad-launch-692712


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The Apple queue - full of middle class geeks apparently



It was full of a variety of people from varying backgrounds. Very few proper geeks.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It was full of a variety of people from varying backgrounds. Very few proper geeks.


----------



## hendo (May 28, 2010)

This is not a geek device. It's too easy to use


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It was full of a variety of people from varying backgrounds. Very few proper geeks.



Hardly a surprise


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 28, 2010)

hendo said:


> This is not a geek device.



I never personally said it was.  I was just posting up link from another site where it was mentioned


----------



## hendo (May 28, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I never personally said it was. I was just posting up link from another site where it was mentioned


 
I think it's the opposite of a geek device, in that it tries to demystify the whole experience of using a computer.  It's been easier and easier to use these things over the years and now we've got something that infants and pensioners will feel very comfortable with.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 28, 2010)

hendo said:


> I think it's the opposite of a geek device, in that it tries to demystify the whole experience of using a computer.  It's been easier and easier to use these things over the years and now we've got something that infants and pensioners will feel very comfortable with.




It was a policeman that said it


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

Found some free wifi and got it all working. I'm sitting with it in my lap and typing about as fast as i would on a regular keyboard. Feels fine. So far everything feels smooth and pleasant.


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

hendo said:


> I think it's the opposite of a geek device, in that it tries to demystify the whole experience of using a computer.  It's been easier and easier to use these things over the years and now we've got something that infants and pensioners will feel very comfortable with.


If they're lucky enough to be able to afford the very high price of such a luxury item, of course.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

fuck's SAKE! still not arrived!

I could have gone down to the Apple Store at Westfield and got one by now. Mind you they probably sold out to people from the BBC.


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

Yeah, infants are gonna save up...


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Yeah, infants are gonna save up...


I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure parents tend to buy things for their children. 

Look! Here's a  of a 2.5 year old playing with one!


----------



## revol68 (May 28, 2010)

oi cunt mods, can't you tell the difference between a thread on the iPad being announced and the iPad being released?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

don't troll the thread please


----------



## Ax^ (May 28, 2010)

Still honestly think anyone who's will to spend the money on this out dated bit of a kit is a bit of a sucker


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

Ax^ said:


> Still honestly think anyone who's will to spend the money on this out dated bit of a kit is a bit of a sucker



that's nice


----------



## revol68 (May 28, 2010)

what this thread about the iPad being announced as opposed to say a thread about it being released?

Anyway I'll post my OP from the other thread in here.

So which degenerate fucks on here are planning to buy this embodiment of everything wrong in the world? A fucking golden calf for the cunt worshippers of backslapping, smug, liberal capitalism.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 28, 2010)

Ax^ said:


> Still honestly think anyone who's will to spend the money on this out dated bit of a kit is a bit of a sucker



How is it 'out of date'?


----------



## Ax^ (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> So which degenerate fucks on here are planning to buy this embodiment of everything wrong in the world? A fucking golden calf for the cunt worshippers of backslapping, smug, liberal capitalism.




no more coffee for this guy


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

Oy revol: with _two_ iPad fanboy mods ready to declare undying love for their shiny new toys today, I suspect you may be heading into stormy waters if you continue your current critical trajectory.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> what this thread about the iPad being announced as opposed to say a thread about it being released?
> 
> Anyway I'll post my OP from the other thread in here.
> 
> So which degenerate fucks on here are planning to buy this embodiment of everything wrong in the world? A fucking golden calf for the cunt worshippers of backslapping, smug, liberal capitalism.



Fuck off you tedious gimp.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> what this thread about the iPad being announced as opposed to say a thread about it being released?
> 
> Anyway I'll post my OP from the other thread in here.
> 
> So which degenerate fucks on here are planning to buy this embodiment of everything wrong in the world? A fucking golden calf for the cunt worshippers of backslapping, smug, liberal capitalism.


Posted from your soviet spectrum clone?


----------



## Ax^ (May 28, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> How is it 'out of date'?



pretty much this picture








looks cool but nothing really new about the ipad


----------



## gabi (May 28, 2010)

Looking at the size of this thread and the iPhone one surely it's time for an Apple sub-forum.

Poll to follow.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> what this thread about the iPad being announced as opposed to say a thread about it being released?
> 
> Anyway I'll post my OP from the other thread in here.
> 
> So which degenerate fucks on here are planning to buy this embodiment of everything wrong in the world? A fucking golden calf for the cunt worshippers of backslapping, smug, liberal capitalism.



last warning, don't troll the thread


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Oy revol: with _two_ iPad fanboy mods ready to declare undying love for their shiny new toys today, I suspect you may be heading into stormy waters if you continue your current critical trajectory.


I think fridge's more full of hate than love today tbf!


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

Ax^ said:


> pretty much this picture
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah because software has no bearing on the user experience (I dont even like the iPad) 

Your comparison is ridiculous.


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

gabi said:


> Looking at the size of this thread and the iPhone one surely it's time for an Apple sub-forum.
> 
> Poll to follow.


We've already tried sub forums for individual brands. Didn't work.


----------



## fractionMan (May 28, 2010)

ipad == shit

I have no facts to back this up, but fuck it, it's never stopped me before.

*runs away*


----------



## Pie 1 (May 28, 2010)

Ax^ said:


> pretty much this picture
> 
> 
> 
> looks cool but nothing really new about the ipad



Riggggght.

<backs slowly away from the random>


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I think fridge's more full of hate than love today tbf!


That's only because you've got your shiny new iPad and he's still waiting to rub up against his own one.

I hate waiting in for gadget deliveries.


----------



## tarannau (May 28, 2010)

Of course there is. What use are stats if the OS and software isn't there?

You don't buy a car solely on the capacity of engine it has. Comparisons like this are just asinine really.


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

editor said:


> We've already tried sub forums for individual brands. Didn't work.



Would a mobile forum be a happy medium?


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

The hardware is nothing special (although its a very nice screen) - it's the software and the user experience i paid for.

I highly recommend the "icab mobile" browser btw, proper tabs, with open in background, download manager and all sorts of other nice things. With the £1.50 or whatever it was. Posses on safari, while rendering pages just as well.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I hate waiting in for gadget deliveries.



They _always _end in dissapointment 

((((FM))))


----------



## revol68 (May 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Oy revol: with _two_ iPad fanboy mods ready to declare undying love for their shiny new toys today, I suspect you may be heading into stormy waters if you continue your current critical trajectory.



Maybe you should put the muzzle on your bitches then.


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

grit said:


> Would a mobile forum be a happy medium?


Where would iPads, tablets, multimedia devices and slates go?


----------



## Ax^ (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The hardware is nothing special (although its a very nice screen) - it's the software and the user experience i paid for.




fair point 

just think the price tag is mightily hefty for the hardware your getting

but course's for horses and such


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

Ax^ said:


> just think the price tag is mightily hefty for the hardware your getting



don't buy one then.


----------



## hendo (May 28, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> It was a policeman that said it


 
Strong stable computing. Coalition computing.

Shall we do an ipad app thread?


----------



## revol68 (May 28, 2010)

£429 and rising for that sort of spec is pathetic.

Face it, this is just a 'lifestyle item', mass produced Faberge eggs for aspirational wankers.


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Where would iPads, tablets, multimedia devices and slates go?



In the mobile forum, as they are mobile computing devices.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

As for whether there is anything new about the hardware, I would say yes: battery life and the touchscreen are not really comparable with devices from years ago. Also the old tablets got hot & blew hot air in an annoying way.


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

Remote Desktop and VPN over 3G is a lot nicer.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> £429 and rising for that sort of spec is pathetic.
> 
> Face it, this is just a 'lifestyle item', mass produced Faberge eggs for aspirational wankers.



What does lifestyle item really mean anyway? The internet and computers are a big part of peoples lives now, and if we start getting into judging what is essential and what is just luxurious time-wasting aspirational lifestyle bollocks, then I dont know where it will all end, being as we dont actually need computers & the net to survive but its gone well beyond being a pointless gimmick.


----------



## revol68 (May 28, 2010)

elbows said:


> What does lifestyle item really mean anyway? The internet and computers are a big part of peoples lives now, and if we start getting into judging what is essential and what is just luxurious time-wasting aspirational lifestyle bollocks, then I dont know where it will all end, being as we dont actually need computers & the net to survive but its gone well beyond being a pointless gimmick.



it's when the use value of the object extends beyond accessing the internet, providing a function and instead becomes about looking cool, gaining status etc etc

I've no problem with people buying fashion or making choices based on aesthetics and the like, my problem is when it's tied such pathetic aspirational ways.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 28, 2010)

Ax^ said:


> pretty much this picture
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you ever actually used a TC1100, or just seen pictures?


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> I've no problem



Quite a bit of evidence to the contrary.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> it's when the use value of the object extends beyond accessing the internet, providing a function and instead becomes about looking cool, gaining status etc etc



Seems like you know me better than I know myself, doctor


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> it's when the use value of the object extends beyond accessing the internet, providing a function and instead becomes about looking cool, gaining status etc etc
> 
> I've no problem with people buying fashion or making choices based on aesthetics and the like, my problem is when it's tied such pathetic aspirational ways.



Christ, I don't even want an iPad, but your wibbling arse dribble is about as good an advert for getting one as I've seen so far.

It's Friday, the sun is shining, so how about you go have a nice big portion of shut the fuck up and bugger off to play outside?


----------



## fjydj (May 28, 2010)

Re that HpTc1100 table... iPad does have a headphone socket, it's at the top. I've just got one just checked, that table got me worried then.


----------



## Santino (May 28, 2010)

The iPed: http://kotaku.com/5549865/china-rips-off-the-ipad-with-the-iped


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 28, 2010)

Wondering whether to wander down to PC World and pick one up. I was initially thinking I'd just get the Wifi version as I'll mostly be using it at home, and an extra £100 plus another mobile contract is a little too pricey for me.

Anyone know how much HD space the apps take up? Is it comparable to the iPhone, or are they monsters?


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Wondering whether to wander down to PC World and pick one up. I was initially thinking I'd just get the Wifi version as I'll mostly be using it at home, and an extra £100 plus another mobile contract is a little too pricey for me.
> 
> Anyone know how much HD space the apps take up? Is it comparable to the iPhone, or are they monsters?



An issue of Wired magazine is 500 megs.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

That wired magazine app is shite anyway.

Games will be larger, text based apps are no different


----------



## hendo (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> That wired magazine app is shite anyway.
> 
> Games will be larger, text based apps are no different


 
Mail's a bit different though, lists them in a handy pop out window on the left


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

hendo said:


> Mail's a bit different though, lists them in a handy pop out window on the left



I think he was talking about file sizes, not other differences.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 28, 2010)

grit said:


> An issue of Wired magazine is 500 megs.


Blimey.

Do iPads work without a desktop machine? I can't see how it's much of a netbook competitor if you also need to own another PC to make the thing work...


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Blimey.
> 
> Do iPads work without a desktop machine? I can't see how it's much of a netbook competitor if you also need to own another PC to make the thing work...



It runs independent


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

again - the wired app is a bag of shite, technically speaking. it's just images, no plaintext or markup, just images and video. no wonder it's 500 meg!

you need a pc to get it started (sync it to a copy of itunes) but then it's autonomous


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

I heard that the wired app was originally done in flash using adobe converter thing but then that plan got scuppered due to Apples stance on these things, leading them to knock together some equally shite alternative.


----------



## grit (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> again - the wired app is a bag of shite, technically speaking. it's just images, no plaintext or markup, just images and video. no wonder it's 500 meg!
> 
> you need a pc to get it started (sync it to a copy of itunes) but then it's autonomous



Isint that all any magazine/publisher can do? Except for lack of plaintext obviously.


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I can't see how it's much of a netbook competitor if you also need to own another PC to make the thing work...



Who says it's a Netbook competitor? Steve Jobs certainly doesn't think so.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

grit said:


> Isint that all any magazine/publisher can do? Except for lack of plaintext obviously.


There's nothing wrong with the content, just that it was put together in a very inefficient manner, so should not be taken as indicative of typical ipad app size


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> it's when the use value of the object extends beyond accessing the internet, providing a function and instead becomes about looking cool, gaining status etc etc
> 
> I've no problem with people buying fashion or making choices based on aesthetics and the like, my problem is when it's tied such pathetic aspirational ways.



Well my main dislike of Apple stuff these days is based on these preconceived conceptions about what their brand stands for. I guess its partly based on how Apple tried to position their brand, partly on the pricetag, partly on the excessive love that people show for their products on the internet, jesus phone etc. 

Its a shame because Apple stuff has gone well beyond that now, its far more mainstream, and there is some real substance beyond the style and inflated pricing. Im a fan of technology done well, but as I have complained about here on several occasions, I am uncomfortable with posing or trying to look cool. WhenI was at school all I aspired to was not to be called Kevin the Gerbil anymore!


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Who says it's a Netbook competitor? Steve Jobs certainly doesn't think so.



Im sure he does really, he just wants to create a new category for it but one that eats into netbook market, and for to be more than a netbook, to appear to offer so much more so that he can charge a handsome price for it. To be a different 'experience' than a netbook but still one that renders netbooks largely obsolete.


----------



## editor (May 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Who says it's a Netbook competitor? Steve Jobs certainly doesn't think so.


Weeelll, maybe. He's certainly mentioned the iPad in relation to netbooks, suggesting it was a better alternative.



> During the iPad launch, Jobs claimed that netbooks had failed to create a category of devices somewhere between smartphones and laptops --- and then added that the iPad would succeed in that category where netbooks failed. According to APC he said:
> "Is there room for something in the middle? We've wondered for years as well. In order to create that category, they have to be far better at doing some key tasks better than the laptop and better than the smartphone."
> "What kind of tasks? Browsing the web. Doing email. Enjoying and sharing pics. Watching videos. Enjoying music. Playing games. Reading ebooks."
> "If there's going to be a third category it has to be better at these tasks -- otherwise it has no reason for being."
> "Now some people thought that was a netbook -- the problem is that netbooks aren't better than anything."​​http://blogs.computerworld.com/15494/windows_netbooks_versus_apple_ipad_victory_goes_to_microsoft


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## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

Yeah, the idea goes that when you make a computer this small, interfaces that work well on a desktop stop working well. SO you need something else.

I think he's right, which is why I bought a tablet. No other competing products come near the ipad for ease of use, IMO, so that's the one I got.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, the idea goes that when you make a computer this small, interfaces that work well on a desktop stop working well. SO you need something else.
> 
> I think he's right, which is why I bought a tablet. No other competing products come near the ipad for ease of use, IMO, so that's the one I got.



Yeah. I still struggle to believe that I made it to an era where there were some mobile devices that didnt annoy the heck out of me when I was using them. What a journey, when I was younger I liked to geek out on the command line, now I just want to get on with the task at hand with minimal fuss and without swearing at it too much. 

Feels like a new era, shame I am still going to get wound up by the content creation/development tools, I suppose I have a while to wait till most of the pain is removed from web development. 

I wonder if we will get to see many devices which use the ipad as a touchscreen to keep the costs of the main device lower. Im thinking of digital music hardware mostly.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2010)

I had one of these 9 years ago. I could see the potential, but nobody was doing it right. That casio sucked, bigtime, for pretty much everything and was horrible to use. Those days are gone now


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## elbows (May 28, 2010)

7 different clones, I suppose Id be interested to know what the touchscreen and battery life are like on them:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/05/28/the-top-seven-ipad-knockoffs/


----------



## Kanda (May 28, 2010)

Just been past the Regent St store... Still queues around the corner, store is rammed and they still have loads of stock!


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## maldwyn (May 28, 2010)

I was there around 3pm and when an enthusiastic assistant asked if he could help I was tempted to inquire about fridgemagnet's lack of delivery.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

I did in the end have somebody from TNT come round with it. Of course as soon as I started to unpack it there were millions of urgent emergencies and conference calls etc so I've not really had much time to play.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I did in the end have somebody from TNT come round with it. Of course as soon as I started to unpack it there were millions of urgent emergencies and conference calls etc so I've not really had much time to play.



Glad you got it anyway, perhaps I can post here now without feeling too guilty 

And for Editor and others, here are the cringeworthy quotes and video from the hideous spectacle that was the London Regent Street launch:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ish-fans-embrace-new-gadget-after-launch.html



> As Jake ran into the store, after a countdown, he was greeted by screams and cheers from dozens of excited staff members who hugged and high-fived him before posing for the world’s media.
> The exhausted but “elated” performing arts student was then led up to the second floor under arch of hands, while quipping “let’s hope my card works”.
> “This is just amazing,” he told The Daily Telegraph just moments after he had bought the 64GB iPad with the help of some extra money from his father.
> “It is exactly what I thought it would be. This is just fantastic. It is unreal. I can't explain it, it is just ridiculously amazing. I just want to have a go on it now.
> “I have not slept for ages but I still have to go to college."



Never mind, I found an amusing error in the article to keep me sane:



> one of the first touch-screen *table-style* computers in Britain


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## Spymaster (May 28, 2010)

I'm posting from one now and the interface takes some getting used to but it's a great little thing.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

Table-style - now that's the Surface....


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2010)




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## Kid_Eternity (May 28, 2010)

Will have to try it out but still finding it hard to get interested in this. It's feel just too expensive for something that allows you to consume but not really create...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> something that allows you to consume but not really create...



What would make you think that?


----------



## revol68 (May 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> What would make you think that?



touch screens suck for typing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

revol68 said:


> touch screens suck for typing.



Some people have this opinion; some don't. There are external keyboards anyway, and typing is not required for creation.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Some people have this opinion; some don't. There are external keyboards anyway, and _typing is not required for creation_.



time for that birds n bees conversation FM...


----------



## Slippers (May 28, 2010)

Typing actualy much much better than I was expecting.

Very nice piece of kit for an evening on the sofa!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> What would make you think that?



What makes you think it isn't much more than a device to consume via?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What makes you think it isn't much more than a device to consume via?



The fact that you can quite easily create stuff with it?

What makes you think computers aren't just devices to consume via?


----------



## Winot (May 28, 2010)

First thoughts 

- browsing is pretty much as expected (fast)
- it's easy to hold and use than I thought it would be
- Pages and Goodreader better than expected: I thought transfer of files would be clunky but I can download Word docs from work email into Pages and edit them with no difficulty
- apps copied over from the iPhone are pretty crap


----------



## Winot (May 28, 2010)

Oh and it's not an iPad point particularly but getting one persuaded me to try MobileMe and it is utterly fab.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2010)

This whole argument about whether its any good for creating content - it really depends what you are creating.

There are lots of things that can, or will be at some point, a pleasure to create using an ipad. Keyboard is low on the list of limitations, a more pressing concern is that the finger is not as accurate as the mouse, drawing tablet etc. For musical creation it has plenty of potential with the main limitation being a lack of pressure sensitivity. It obviously lacks the grunt required for heavy 3D work and suchlike but I still predict that we will see all sorts of interesting ways to create stuff with this device.

And the surface of what is possible with >2 finger touch has hardly been scratched yet. This is one of my primary interests as a potential developer, but the iphone was not big enough to do much with in this regard, so Ive been crying out for a larger device using the same tech since I first tried an ipod touch, now I will get to find out if I actually have any useful ideas that arent just gimmicks.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 28, 2010)

Yeah guess that's a fair point, I'm not particulary bothered really just don't seem to find it that dazzling...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 29, 2010)

Well that's my first BT Openzone failure, probably of many; it claims that despite my having an O2 sim, this is "the wrong sort of hotspot". Typical.

Typing is a bit odd on this thing. I feel very _precious_ doing it; you can't leave your fingers on the keyboard, you have to hover your hands over it when you're not actually typing letters. I wouldn't want to do that for long, my wrists would go. Bluetooth keyboard works pretty well though.

Complete fingerprint/dust/fluff magnet of course.


----------



## maldwyn (May 29, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> . Bluetooth keyboard works pretty well though.


 Another advantage of using a bluetooth keyboard over that ridiculous docking keyboard is the ability to type in landscape.


----------



## editor (May 29, 2010)

Charlie Brooker on the iPad:


> Typically for Apple, the packaging virtually places the device in your hands with the grace of a well-trained butler. The iPad itself is surprisingly heavy: about the same as a hardback book. It gave me mild arm ache almost immediately. Maybe there's an app that can tell you how many calories you're burning just by holding it. The best solution is to adopt a self-consciously casual crossed-legged sitting position, and prop it up with your thigh. Fanboys who wet themselves may cause a short circuit...
> 
> You're required to use iTunes during the setup process, which is like  being forced to eat a handful of mud. iTunes is twice as awful as any  software crime Microsoft ever inflicted on the world...
> 
> ...



http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/29/ipad-review-charlie-brooker


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## Crispy (May 29, 2010)

It is heavier than it should be, yeah. But it's still comfortable to use. I'm in bed right now with it resting against my raised knees. Comfy and pretty easy to type. I'm actually getting about the same wpm as i get from a hardware keyboard.  

Haven't actually tried reading book yet, but given that I spend all day looking at LCD screens already without straining my eyes, i don't think this will be any different.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 29, 2010)

Have you bought Numbers?

Pages is excellent; I would like to get omnigraffle but like everyone else it seems, I looked at the videos and specs and thought "must buy this" and then saw the price and thought "ehhhhhhhh maybe I'll think about that one".


----------



## Crispy (May 29, 2010)

Don't feel the need for office apps yet. Could see myself getting a spreadsheet of some sort but not splashing all the way out for numbers...


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## editor (May 29, 2010)

I had a good play with one today at PC World. The screen is lovely and bright but it's way heavier than I expected and it became uncomfortable to hold after a while. 
The keyboard was usuable but I really wouldn't like to use it for much more than short emails. 

Some of the apps were just giant-sized iPhone apps, and I don't really think there was much benefit from blowing them up. The magazine apps looked all shiny and glossy but I think I'd much rather read the print version unless there was some worthwhile interactive 'extras' on offer. The car racing game was fun and fast too - the iPad could be a great, albeit expensive, gaming platform - but I'm not really sold on the overall concept yet. It feels a bit unfinished with no multi taking too, and I wouldn't like to use it for writing documents or emailing on a train because a tablet feels far more exposed to prying eyes.

I enjoyed playing with it - it's a lovely piece of beautifully executed design - but it's not for me. It's just too heavy, too expensive and too feature-limited to justify the outlay.


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## editor (May 29, 2010)

The most whoopin', high fivin', clappin' and cheerin' celebration of luxury consumer item spending you'll ever see in the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ho-bought-the-first-Apple-iPad-in-the-UK.html

The way he's embraced and cheered really does look disturbingly cult-like.


----------



## Kanda (May 29, 2010)

I was there shortly after, as i walked in and got met by my own personal Apple dude and taken over to the stairs they started doing it, i just scowled and told them to leave it out. On the way out they all just shut up instead of cheering. The bloke that served me said these people actually volunteer for it!!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 29, 2010)

A bit of occasion is fine with me. Obviously that "first bloke to buy an iPad" was massively orchestrated - look at the camera crews all in there.

I bought Leopard on the first day iirc. Didn't queue up, but I went to the Apple Store and bought one; I got a set of commemorative dog tags, and there was a bit of a feel of community with other people also buying it, and the staff. It's not like buying software is normally great laughs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2010)

Don't really have a problem if people want to high five and whoop tbh, it ain't my thing but don't see much point being off key about those that do...


----------



## twistedAM (May 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Charlie Brooker on the iPad:



Does that fucker actually like anything? Boring....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2010)

twistedAM said:


> Does that fucker actually like anything? Boring....



I don't usually read him, his 'i hate this media shit' while getting paid fat wads of cash for doing media shit is more than a little boring..,


----------



## editor (May 31, 2010)

Might be worth buying an iPad when you're on a trip out of the country....  





> *iPads cost more in Europe and the UK than elsewhere in the world, according to latest reports.*
> 
> Prices in Britain and Europe are around around a quarter higher than in the United States, says a new study.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pie 1 (May 31, 2010)

editor said:


> Might be worth buying an iPad when you're on a trip out of the country....



16GB wifi is CHF649.00 here (Switzerland) = £387.00 or $562.00.

So the UK's a whopping $124 dearer [than the US], Switzerland $63.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 31, 2010)

Veering towards the 32GB wifi model, here.

It'll be a good few months before I buy one yet, though... new phone and bike gear needs to come first.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 31, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> It'll be a good few months before I buy one yet, though



Add a couple of months to that & you'll probably get a 2nd Gen 32gb 3G for the same price


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 31, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Add a couple of months to that & you'll probably get a 2nd Gen 32gb 3G for the same price



Given that the 3G is outselling the wifi one 3-1 it wouldn't surprise me if they dropped the 3G one to wifi price lines in the next year...


----------



## Kanda (May 31, 2010)

I've been on call all day today. It's been a godsend. RDP back to work from anywhere on a decent sized screen has been bliss. Could do it on iPhone but this is so much faster and easier.


----------



## paolo (May 31, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I've been on call all day today. It's been a godsend. RDP back to work from anywhere on a decent sized screen has been bliss. Could do it on iPhone but this is so much faster and easier.



Sounds good.

Out of interest, how does 'clicking' work?


----------



## editor (May 31, 2010)

This guy has likened buying an iPad to having a child!





> "After a 13-hour wait, it's like giving birth," he said after emerging from the Apple store.
> 
> "You're in labour for 13 hours and you're tired and exhausted, you're hot one minute then you're cold the next, and you're in pain, but then there's the ecstasy when you have this little thing in your arms."
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/may/28/ipad-apple-sale-britain


----------



## elbows (May 31, 2010)

Apple have announced that sales have reached 2 million, this includes the international launch sales, they havent broken them down by country as far as I know.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 31, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Add a couple of months to that & you'll probably get a 2nd Gen 32gb 3G for the same price



Mebbe so. 

Tbh, it's a toy type purchase, not something I particularly need.


----------



## Crispy (May 31, 2010)

Ok, after using it all weekend i can safely say that it replaces my computer for the majority of tasks.  All I've used my desktop for was downloading a movie. I can type pretty fast and I am not missing flash. There have been a few videos I couldn't watch, but so many sites use youtube its not a big problem (and this situation will only improve). For a first version it really is very polished. Not a toy.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2010)

Think I'm going to have a wander down to the Apple Store at lunchtime today and have a play with one (assuming they're not sold out, but reports I've heard have been that stock levels are much better than at the iPhone launch). Chances of buying one probably around 75-80%. 

If I buy one can I play with it at the office, or is it like the iPhone and will just display a "connect me" message until it's synced with my home desktop first?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 1, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> If I buy one can I play with it at the office, or is it like the iPhone and will just display a "connect me" message until it's synced with my home desktop first?



Connect me. But they'll do that for you in store if you ask them.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2010)

Well I can connect it to my work laptop to get it going, as long as that won't mess up the syncing when i get home. I assume I can just sync it and wipe the previous sync when I get home with it, right?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2010)

Currently me and a couple of other AV techies are having a play with one.  We keep coming up with loads of things it could do if only Apple had put some fucking USB sockets on it 

It is _very_ slick though.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 1, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Well I can connect it to my work laptop to get it going, as long as that won't mess up the syncing when i get home. I assume I can just sync it and wipe the previous sync when I get home with it, right?



Yeah, it'll be fine. I just registered it on my MacBook I had with me at work, downloaded apps over WiFi then when I got home synced it with my iMac, transfered purchases, no probs.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Ok, after using it all weekend i can safely say that it replaces my computer for the majority of tasks.  All I've used my desktop for was downloading a movie. I can type pretty fast and I am not missing flash. There have been a few videos I couldn't watch, but so many sites use youtube its not a big problem (and this situation will only improve). For a first version it really is very polished. Not a toy.




Sorry - I couldn't be bother to back-track...which version did you get?


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Yeah, it'll be fine. I just registered it on my MacBook I had with me at work, downloaded apps over WiFi then when I got home synced it with my iMac, transfered purchases, no probs.


Cheers.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 1, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Sorry - I couldn't be bother to back-track...which version did you get?


3G 16GB


----------



## sim667 (Jun 1, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Currently me and a couple of other AV techies are having a play with one.  We keep coming up with loads of things it could do if only Apple had put some fucking USB sockets on it
> 
> It is _very_ slick though.



We were talking about it at work, it could be such a good tool for so many things as you say if it only had some fucking USB on it

I read a rumour somewhere that they're working on an OSX based tablet too.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> 3G 16GB




see - that seems to be the sensible option...but I just can't shake the suspicion that 16Gb isn't enough for me...though I would be hard pushed to clarify _why_!


----------



## Crispy (Jun 1, 2010)

What are you going to fill it with? I've put a gig of music on it, about a gig of photos and the rest is free for apps. I stream movies to it using AirVideo and I suppose I will load a movie or two on it at some point, but there hsould be plenty of space for that too


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 1, 2010)

The Groke said:


> I just can't shake the suspicion that 16Gb isn't enough for me...though I would be hard pushed to clarify _why_!



Well, I reckon it probably is enough, but I would probably end up plumping for the 32.
If you think that the music is the thing that fills iPhones & you shouldn't have that much need to put music on it as you've already got it on your phone when out & about, & you use Remote to access it all at home.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Well, I reckon it probably is enough, but I would probably end up plumping for the 32.
> If you think that the music is the thing that fills iPhones & you shouldn't have that much need to put music on it as you've already got it on your phone when out & about, & you use Remote to access it all at home.




Yeah true...

Was perhaps thinking more of movie and TV rips I suppose - but you only really need a handful of those at a time.

32gb is probably the best compromise.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> What are you going to fill it with? I've put a gig of music on it, about a gig of photos and the rest is free for apps. I stream movies to it using AirVideo and I suppose I will load a movie or two on it at some point, but there hsould be plenty of space for that too




Yeah - see above.

I have my iMod for tunes, so would be movies, TV, comics and apps I guess.

Not sure what size a HQ movie rip handbrakes down to for the iPad, but is probably around 800Mb or so I guess...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 1, 2010)




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## g force (Jun 1, 2010)

It's a lovely piece of kit - had a play on one at the weekend for a few hours. But as I have an iPhone and an MBP I just can't see myself using it enough to justify the ludicrous price. I may however be tempted when I go to the US early next year if the exchange rate is better.

I did have a chuckle in the Apple store are the lady who bought one for her young 12/13 year old son along with a keyboard and a stand...couldn't help but feel maybe he needed a laptop but wanted to show off.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2010)

My verdict after an hour or so playing with one this morning.

1 - It's really nice to use. Slick, responsive, everything you expect from Apple. It's got that "wow" factor.

2 - Typing on it is _horrible_. Sorry Apple, I just don't like virtual keyboards. Not being able to rest my fingers on the keys is the worst bit, it hurts my wrists. The lack of an angle between keys and screen makes this worse.

3 - Web browsing is fantastic. Didn't do enough to find out if the flash thing is that big an issue though.

4 - The book reader thingy looks lovely, but I stand by my position that ebooks are the spawn of satan. 

5 - Apple have utterly crippled it by refusing to add USB sockets.


Point 5 is the one that really grates with me.  I wanted to like it, I really did. Apple had a chance to make something that could have been a genuinely fantastic bit of kit, with all sorts of posibilities for creative use.  As it is, they've built a giant iPod Touch.  If that's what you want, fine, you won't be dissapointed, but it's not for me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Well, I reckon it probably is enough, but I would probably end up plumping for the 32.
> If you think that the music is the thing that fills iPhones & you shouldn't have that much need to put music on it as you've already got it on your phone when out & about, & you use Remote to access it all at home.



What I normally do is work out what I need right now then double it. I had 12-3 gigs of music so went for the 32 gig iPhone to be future proof in terms of space...


----------



## editor (Jun 1, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My verdict after an hour or so playing with one this morning.
> 
> 1 - It's really nice to use. Slick, responsive, everything you expect from Apple. It's got that "wow" factor.
> 
> ...


I've now had two fairly long goes on an iPad and much as I admire the technology and the beautiful design, it remains too heavy, expensive and feature-crippled for me to justify the expenditure and I still can't find the niche it's supposed to fill in my life.

I've posted up my rather lengthy appraisal here, if anyone's interested: http://www.wirefresh.com/the-apple-ipad-not-for-us-well-at-least-not-yet/


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2010)

The 3G version means you also need a new mobile contract too, right? I assume there is no way to just swap your iPhone SIM into the iPad if you find yourself needing a little 3G connectivity?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 1, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> The 3G version means you also need a new mobile contract too, right? I assume there is no way to just swap your iPhone SIM into the iPad if you find yourself needing a little 3G connectivity?



Yup, you need a 3G contract.

No, it's a different type of SIM.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 1, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 2 - Typing on it is _horrible_. Sorry Apple, I just don't like virtual keyboards. Not being able to rest my fingers on the keys is the worst bit, it hurts my wrists. The lack of an angle between keys and screen makes this worse.



It becomes a better angle and easier with it in the Apple case at an angle.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 1, 2010)

You can cut the edges of a regular sim and it'll fit. Then you need a template for sticking it back in the iphone. tricky but possible.

The £2 for 24h 3G access is a good enough deal to make such hackery redundant though.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 1, 2010)

I went for the £10/1GB a month deal. Have already used 209MB! You can top up 500MB chunks for £2 a pop if needed though.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2010)

just had a look and go on one... it's fucking stupid for the money. 

but if you got money to burn then, yeah go for it.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The £2 for 24h 3G access is a good enough deal to make such hackery redundant though.


You mean the O2 PAYG model? Seems a bit cheeky including any wifi data in the daily allowance...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It becomes a better angle and easier with it in the Apple case at an angle.



So, Apple will flog you somthing to overcome an inbuilt shortcoming of one of their bits of kit. Nothing new there then


----------



## Crispy (Jun 1, 2010)

can't say I've found typing to be that bad at all. were you standing or sitting, bees?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> can't say I've found typing to be that bad at all. were you standing or sitting, bees?



Tried both, just couldn't get to a position that worked for me.  Like I said in my post, the big problem was being unable to rest my fingers on the keys.


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## Crispy (Jun 1, 2010)

fair enough - touchscreen typing isn't for everyone it seems (and as was shown by the iphone too)


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> fair enough - touchscreen typing isn't for everyone it seems (and as was shown by the iphone too)



Yeah, even though I'm getting the hang of it on my Desire I'd still rather have proper keys. Just seems to be one of those Marmite things.

Saying that, I don't like a lot of modern/Apple keyboards either, I like big clunky keys. There's never been anything better than the old IBM "M" type IMO


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## editor (Jun 2, 2010)

Catastrophe! The once mighty iFart app - now iFart HD - has been banished from the iPad app store!
http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/01/former-app-store-king-ifart-gets-blocked-from-the-ipad/


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## Sunray (Jun 2, 2010)

Got one of these for work and blimy its much heavier that it needs to be.  I constantly get this feeling I'm going to drop it and I can't find a nice way to hold it one handed that makes it comfortable.

Nice try but no cigar.


----------



## paolo (Jun 2, 2010)

Mega battery life though.

Would have been lighter if they'd skimped on that.


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## Kanda (Jun 2, 2010)

You lot need to get to a gym.....


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 2, 2010)

Yeah, it's not *that* heavy. Fine, holding it for an hour with one hand would be a bit of a strain on the wrist, but if you're going to wank for that long prop it up somewhere ffs.


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## Kanda (Jun 2, 2010)

You just put it in the palm of your hand and down your forearm... If you want to hold it like a piece of paper... Read a book or something


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 2, 2010)

Lying bastards at the Cambridge Apple Store - they told me that they were out of stock, so I said I'd wander down to PC World and see if they had any. "Nah mate, don't do that - they're all out of stock as well. Let me take your name and we'll order one in for you." Went down to PC World instead - they had loads in stock!


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## Pie 1 (Jun 3, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Mega battery life though.
> 
> Would have been lighter if they'd skimped on that.



& then we'd be back to square one with the battery life whingers


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## elbows (Jun 3, 2010)

editor said:


> Catastrophe! The once mighty iFart app - now iFart HD - has been banished from the iPad app store!
> http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/01/former-app-store-king-ifart-gets-blocked-from-the-ipad/



Never mind, I was browsing the app store today and saw that an app called Fart Drums HD has been released.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2010)

I've been using a music making app call bleep box tonight and I'm well impressed. It's like a miniature Reason, with synths and drum machines, all with automation of parameters in real time. The interface is obviously a mashup of the various parts of the iPhone version but they're promising improvements. The machinery inside it is very good though - i got a respectable track going in a couple of hours from scratch. 6 quid.

Can't wait to see what sort of stuff the future will bring in this area....


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

Looks like you can forget abut tethering your iPhone to your iPad:



> This isn't so much news as it is a public service announcement: even in  markets where iPhone tethering has launched, you've never been able to  use it to connect to an iPad, and you won't be able to when AT&T  flips the switch on tethering with the release of OS 4. That's  clearly not AT&T's fault, it's Apple's -- the iPhone inexplicably  supports only USB and Bluetooth for sharing its internet connection,  even though jailbroken apps like MyWi prove that a WiFi connection is  totally doable and countless other handsets already support WiFi  routing. And iPad doesn't support using another device as a Bluetooth  modem, either. And as long as you're paying the tethering fee, there's  no reason why AT&T wouldn't want you tethering the iPad; you'll  certainly be able to do it with any phone in AT&T's lineup that can  create a WiFi hotspot, after all, and we're sure they'd be happy to take  your overage cash once you hit 2GB regardless of the device you're  using to gobble the data.
> 
> In the meantime, you know what you _can_ tether to an iPad? A  phone running Froyo, for one -- Google was certainly happy to show  off that capability back at IO. Or pretty much any  device running S60 from  the last several years. Or a Palm Pre Plus... yeah, you  get the idea.
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2010)

If you've got a 3G one it's no issue though right? I mean, I don't see the point of the wifi only one and don't expect it to last as a product line...


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If you've got a 3G one it's no issue though right? I mean, I don't see the point of the wifi only one and don't expect it to last as a product line...


But equally, what is the point of the 3G one if you're only ever going to use it at home? I don't need a 3G iPad - on the very odd occasion I might take it away somewhere with me, it'll either be abroad (insanely expensive) or somewhere I can find some wifi fairly easily.


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## elbows (Jun 4, 2010)

I didnt go for a 3G one because of the speed & cost of 3G. Lack of internet anywhere will only bother me about 5-10% of the time.

As for tethering, it will influence my next choice of phone but not sure it will be a dealbreaker. Mind you I will only consider android if they add hardware accelerated css transforms to their browser.


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## elbows (Jun 4, 2010)

Ive been trying the Wired magazine app - he it really shows up the weaknesses of magazines in general. Reading it on the same device that can pick up the wider internet, I am really struck by the lack of length & depth of articles, and the large quantity of fullpage adverts that I have to flick through.


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## Kanda (Jun 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> I didnt go for a 3G one because of the speed & cost of 3G. Lack of internet anywhere will only bother me about 5-10% of the time.



It's suprisingly quick over 3G.


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> Ive been trying the Wired magazine app - he it really shows up the weaknesses of magazines in general. Reading it on the same device that can pick up the wider internet, I am really struck by the lack of length & depth of articles, and the large quantity of fullpage adverts that I have to flick through.


I think most magazines are fine as they are - it's still the best format for reading and flicking through articles and it's far easier to ignore ads.

Transferring them wholesale to an electronic tablet is where they fall down. People tend to read electronic devices differently to conventional print media and there's an expectation with the shiny new iPad for magazine apps to_ do more_ and be all interactive and exciting.

The mags I've seen on an iPad so far have been very underwhelming and sourcing all that extra whizz-bang content may make it an expensive and/or uneconomic prospect for publishers.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2010)

I wouldn't mind a plain old PDF of the print version, which can't cost them much at all


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I wouldn't mind a plain old PDF of the print version, which can't cost them much at all


Steve Jobs wouldn't like that as other platforms would be able to access the content and the publishers would probably insist on it being DRM'd to fuck.


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## tarannau (Jun 4, 2010)

Ach, new content will come though - there's the market size to develop for it already, no mean feat. From our company's point of view, the ipad app is already proving very popular - people tend to linger around 4 times longer than the same content via the 'conventional' website according to earlier metrics.

What's clear is that it's a challenging time for publishers. There isn't going to be a goldrush for them. In fact it reminds me a little bit of the early days of CDR content, where publishers rushed to put the same content in much the same way onto CD and (unsurprisingly) and didn't impress many or make sales. Only more inventive and involved designs proved more popular.

Clearly the ipad offers something fundamentally more involving with navigation and format that CD, but the challenge for publishers remains similar - how to customise their content so that it becomes genuinely attractive. No doubts there'll be more than a little consolidation in the publishing industry as the costs of this reformatting become apparent - as usual with the net, expect a handful of dominant players to develop.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Steve Jobs wouldn't like that as other platforms would be able to access the content and the publishers would probably insist on it being DRM'd to fuck.


Steve jobs can do nothing about it - there's already all sorts of content offered this way via in-app purchase. The file doesn't have to come via the web, for all to plunder.


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Steve jobs can do nothing about it - there's already all sorts of content offered this way via in-app purchase. The file doesn't have to come via the web, for all to plunder.


And what would stop people forwarding the PDF formatted mag straight off their iPad to all and sundry?


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2010)

a)The lack of a 'forward this thing I just paid for' button in the mag's app, and
b)The lack of a file explorer to root through an app's filestore, and (probably)
c)DRM encapsulation for the file to make scraping it from a jailbroken phone more difficult

There are already comicbook apps in the store that let you download the latest Marvel, DC etc. comics for a couple of quid a piece - that's the business model I'm talking about.


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> There are already comicbook apps in the store that let you download the latest Marvel, DC etc. comics for a couple of quid a piece - that's the business model I'm talking about.


It's a bit clumsy alright, but it looks like some piracy has already started up...
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?id=25745&page=article

And some in the industry are already voicing concerns:


> With new technology comes new threats. Will comics be able to be traded and uploaded to an iPad as easily as other files? It may be inevitable that comic piracy will become more prevalent, with more fans turning to bit torrent to get what they want for free. I have heard more than one fan in our store bragging how they just downloaded entire runs of comics.
> 
> If the actual physical sales of comics take a hit, it may be only a matter of time, and a bit of nerve on a major publishers part, to go Internet only. It reminds me of when Marvel bought Heroes World with the attempt to cut out the middleman in distribution, and we all know how that turned out. But that's not to say they won't try it again in the future...
> 
> http://www.newsarama.com/comics/the-Q-retailers-ipad-100408.html


More: http://bookbee.com.au/index.php/201...ics-destroy-comic-book-shops-or-boost-piracy/


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2010)

Comicbook piracy has been around for years already and one of the first comics apps of the ipad was for reading the common .cbr format used for such piracy. What the official apps provide is a very user-friendly, high quality, speedy service (and higher resolution than 768x1024, zooming in is important!)

Music piracy exists and yet, somehow, those crazy guys at iTunes are making shedloads of cash selling DRM-free music. Same reasons.

There is no reason why other print media cannot follow the same model, apart from inertia, which is what hurt the music industry first time round.


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> There is no reason why other print media cannot follow the same model, apart from inertia, which is what hurt the music industry first time round.


I can think of other reasons why some magazines may be reluctant to jump into bed with Steve Jobs: his moral censorship campaign being one of them.



> German publishers have told Apple's Steve Jobs to stop behaving like a Nazi censor.
> 
> A group of German magazine publishers have been trying to get Jobs to negotiate on the handling of applications for iPad and iPhone.
> 
> ...



More: http://gizmodo.com/5490310/its-time-to-declare-war-against-apples-censorship


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## elbows (Jun 4, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Clearly the ipad offers something fundamentally more involving with navigation and format that CD, but the challenge for publishers remains similar - how to customise their content so that it becomes genuinely attractive. No doubts there'll be more than a little consolidation in the publishing industry as the costs of this reformatting become apparent - as usual with the net, expect a handful of dominant players to develop.



I think there are still big questions about how much 'multimedia' and touch interaction can actually improve the experience. Its quite hard to come up with things that arent simply gimmicks. The web in general has evolved to the point where benefits can sometimes be seen from the use of video clips, audio, photo galleries and the occasional interactive chart/map. But it doesnt always add much, and traditional publishers of the written word can struggle to make compelling video. And a lot of stuff is still best consumed in a fairly linear way with minimal interaction required.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2010)

I agree, they need much clearer rules (and to stick to them) about what content is and is not allowed via in-app purchases.


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

If urban75 was a mag it would almost certainly be banned from the AppStore. If the iPad is the future, then that's of some concern.


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## editor (Jun 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> I think there are still big questions about how much 'multimedia' and touch interaction can actually improve the experience. Its quite hard to come up with things that arent simply gimmicks. The web in general has evolved to the point where benefits can sometimes be seen from the use of video clips, audio, photo galleries and the occasional interactive chart/map. But it doesnt always add much, and traditional publishers of the written word can struggle to make compelling video. And a lot of stuff is still best consumed in a fairly linear way with minimal interaction required.


I'm a gadget freak but I'm happy to concede that the best way to read a book or a magazine remains in print.


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## elbows (Jun 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm a gadget freak but I'm happy to concede that the best way to read a book or a magazine remains in print.



Well that wasnt quite the point I was trying to me, although I can see why many are of that opinion. I was just saying that beyond the core advantages of getting stuff digitally, there isnt always much apparent value to trying to add different sorts of navigation & content to the mix. If I preferred to read stuff on paper then I doubt I would have felt the need to buy an ipad at all.

As for my general experience and impressions of the ipad after a week of ownership, Im as impressed as the first day I bought it. The only issue Im having at the moment is that Ive spent so many years glued to a computer whilst sitting at a desk, that its taking me a while to adjust my routine so that I actually use my ipad more. Every day I am getting a little better at this, but have a long way to go. 

As for the impressions of other people who have seen my ipad, I have avoided gratuitously waving it around but the few times it has come out in public at work it has generated considerable interest, more than when I first got an iphone. The price certainly puts people off and some have gotten sad when I tell them it does not completely replace their laptop.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2010)

I haven't used my desktop computer to browse the net all week  Feels very nice, and I find myself bimbling round the house with it - quite unlike a laptop. Sparrow's always had her macbook, but it really behaves like a desktop that changes table maybe twice a day (and has to bring its power adapter along just in case). I used mine solidly, from hometime till bedtime last night, including several hours of music making and an episode on iplayer, and there's still just under 50% battery. No regrets splashing out on it, it's very nice indeed


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## Sunray (Jun 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm a gadget freak but I'm happy to concede that the best way to read a book or a magazine remains in print.



It still is and technology might like to think it can take its place but there is a long way to go before I put down a book and read it on an ebook.

Currently my use for an ebook is travelling and for reference manuals.  This is giving up some things that I like about books for weight and searchability reasons.


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## magneze (Jun 4, 2010)

I used Crispy's last night. It's is really really nice. Yes, it's a big iPod touch and maybe a little heavier than I expected but the screen and interface really makes for such a nice natural touch experience.


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## Winot (Jun 4, 2010)

Winot said:


> Oh and it's not an iPad point particularly but getting one persuaded me to try MobileMe and it is utterly fab.



Have changed my mind about MobileMe - turns out it doesn't work if you want to also synchronise using Microsoft Exchange Server.

So:

iPhone <-> MobileMe = great
iPad <-> MobileMe = great
iMac <-> MobileMe = great
but Work PC <-> MobileMe = no go

That means I have to sync contacts and calendars between iPad/iPhone and the work PC using Microsoft Exchange Server.  This results in different calendar/contact entries on the iPad/iPhone depending on the sync method.

Would be OK if I could sync the iMac with Microsoft Exchange Server but we have 2003 at work and that's not compatible with Snow Leopard which only works with 2007.

I shall reluctantly have to stick with Plaxo.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 5, 2010)

Got one.  16Gb wifi model in the end.

The kids absolutely love it - I think it's going to end up being an entertainment machine more than anything else.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Got one.  16Gb wifi model in the end.
> 
> The kids absolutely love it - I think it's going to end up being an entertainment machine more than anything else.



Have to say one thing I really thought was quite neat was the way you can play scrabble on it with your letters kept on your iPhone.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have to say one thing I really thought was quite neat was the way you can play scrabble on it with your letters kept on your iPhone.


LOL - did anyone ever think they'd need over a thousand pounds worth of kit just to play Scrabble..?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> LOL - did anyone ever think they'd need over a thousand pounds worth of kit just to play Scrabble..?



Well if you can afford it that would be the most stylish way to play.


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## elbows (Jun 5, 2010)

Yay I have spent a day stumbling around trying to replicate the sorts of things the various apps do with being able to swipe fullscreen photos, but using css transforms & transitions in the browser rather than a native app. I knew it should turn out pretty smooth and Im very happy with the results.

Here is a test for ipad in landscape mode. It isnt doing anything clever in terms of loading the images as it goes, and its a bit of a botch job really but it demonstrates that smooth animation in the browser is pretty achievable on the ipad, as expected.

http://padapt.com/s/


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2010)

my boss has one  and  he let me have a play with it

it's a nice little machine   it's  very  slick  and  it is  about the  right  size  for what it does,  also  the screen is  excellent  and  video play back  is  very sweet   and  the  browsing  experiance is  crisp

however   more and  more  it told  me   it was  the answer  to a  question i wasn't asking 

i  would  fucking  hate it   if i got one     because of these   reasons...  all my new music is  flac... all m,y  video  is   mkv  with soft subs  and  sometime dual audio...   and  i  can just  envision  the  hell i'd have to go through  trying   to  get it  all on  there...   

the  books are nice but waaaaaaaaaaaay over priced...  mind you it  would  be awesome  for manga...  but   not regular  books...


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## Crispy (Jun 7, 2010)

AirVideo can pipe your MKV over wifi, with on the fly conversion to MP4, with dual audio and subtitle support 

You'd be a bit screwed with the FLACs though


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2010)

you know  if it wasn't  for the price...  and   my pathalogical hate of itunes  i'd be  tempted

if  i was  rich  i'd  get   one...


but then if i was  rich  i'd   have  ended up  smothered under a pile of dakimakura


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2010)

Doh I thought my screen had gone wrong, it was extremely dark in portrait mode but ok in landscape, then I realised I was wearing sunglasses and for whatever reason (polarisation?) they almost completely block out the light from the screen when its in portrait mode. 

I decided to test this phenomenon with laptop screen and the gasses do a similar thing but only when at angles such as 45 and 135, not 0 or 90.


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## grit (Jun 7, 2010)

elbows said:


> (polarisation?)



Yeah that sounds right


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2010)

Tried it with the iphone and it only goes really dark at around 25 degrees.


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## fjydj (Jun 7, 2010)

This seems a neat trick, add the BBC iplayer to the homepage and it then opens in it's own window, not in safari. Never noticed that happen before.


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2010)

Vaguely interesting looking at the design of the iPad now that the iPhone 4 design is confirmed. Although the iPad is seen as being mostly a giant iPhone/iPod touch, there are at least some slight hints of the iPhone 4 design around the edges, ie slightly less curvy than the older iPhones. So the iPad probably just about pulls off the feat of not looking instantly outdated looks wise now that iPhone 4 is here.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2010)

Priceless!


> *Pulse iPad App Gets Steve Jobs’ Praise in Morning…Then Booted From App Store Hours Later After NYT Complains*
> 
> Yesterday morning, the pair of Stanford University graduate students  who made the hot news-reading iPad app, Pulse News Reader, were ecstatic  to be mentioned first–as one of the most promising developers for the  new tablet device–in his keynote speech by Apple CEO Steve Jobs at the Worldwide  Developers Conference in San Francisco.
> 
> ...


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## editor (Jun 10, 2010)

Teehee!



> Over 100,000 iPad owners' e-mail addresses exposed
> 
> A security bug in AT&T's Web site had exposed more than 100,000 iPad users' e-mail addresses, U.S. media reported Wednesday.
> 
> ...


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## Kanda (Jun 10, 2010)

Funny why?


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## editor (Jun 10, 2010)

_Goatse security_, that's why!


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## hendo (Jun 10, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> LOL - did anyone ever think they'd need over a thousand pounds worth of kit just to play Scrabble..?



The Scrabble app was the first thing I bought. It's super.

Another of the first things I bought was the clever Pulse news app, which is back in the store btw, on both sides of the Atlantic.

Flash or no Flash I love my ipad. I pop video on it for night shifts, have started to read books on it, check me news sites and tweet away on tweetdeck. Still looking for a top strategy title, ie Civ, hurry up developers.

But wish it supported picasa and had a dedicated blogging app. It seems less obviously a creating tool than a computer should be.


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## Crispy (Jun 10, 2010)

You can get civ revolution for it. Not full fat civ, that's for sure, but it scratches the itch.


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## elbows (Jun 10, 2010)

Ahhh the Star Walk app is great, and quite the demo of what a decent iPad app can do. Now I just need to clouds to bugger off one evening so I can make good use of it.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 11, 2010)

fjydj said:


> This seems a neat trick, add the BBC iplayer to the homepage and it then opens in it's own window, not in safari. Never noticed that happen before.


That is clever - kids will love that they can watch their Cbeebies shows on it.


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## elbows (Jun 11, 2010)

fjydj said:


> This seems a neat trick, add the BBC iplayer to the homepage and it then opens in it's own window, not in safari. Never noticed that happen before.



That stuffs been around since an earlier version of the OS on the iPhone - part of Apples pre-app-store efforts to make webapps useful. With one line added to your webpage you can tell it to hide the safari browser chrome when loaded via its own icon. Its still loading in safari, its just that most of the Safari UI is hidden.


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## Sunray (Jun 11, 2010)

Using the iPad to post this and the keyboard is a puzzle, there is plenty of space but it's copied from the iPhone. I'm not sure that that is sensible, make the keys a bit smaller and then put a full keyboard there.

Whats the point of full gps on a wifi only iPad?


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## elbows (Jun 12, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Whats the point of full gps on a wifi only iPad?



Apps that dont require a current internet connection can make good use of GPS.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2010)

Would have loved an iPad with evernote today while doing some viewings...


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## editor (Jun 16, 2010)

It seems that you can't swap microSIM cards between the iPhone and iPad: http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-micro-sim-wont-work-with-apples-ipad/


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## Kanda (Jun 16, 2010)

editor said:


> It seems that you can't swap microSIM cards between the iPhone and iPad: http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-micro-sim-wont-work-with-apples-ipad/



Never expected it too. Why would you??


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## editor (Jun 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Never expected it too. Why would you??


Handy to swap over SIMs if you were running out of data allowance on the one device etc.


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## Kanda (Jun 16, 2010)

It's £2 for 500MB if I'm running out on my iPad....

Anyway.. can you swap the SIM out of 3G dongles into phones? That's how I see this issue...


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## elbows (Jun 16, 2010)

Im not surprised the iPad SIM wont work on the iPhone due to the lack of voice, but perhaps an iPhone 4 microSIM will work in an iPad.


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## Kaye (Jun 16, 2010)

If you don't have an ipad, add "sent from my ipad" at the bottom of an email to a few people and see what response you get!


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## Kanda (Jun 16, 2010)

Kaye said:


> If you don't have an ipad, add "sent from my ipad" at the bottom of an email to a few people and see what response you get!



Why?


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## grit (Jun 16, 2010)

Kaye said:


> If you don't have an ipad, add "sent from my ipad" at the bottom of an email to a few people and see what response you get!



Mockery in my circles.


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## paolo (Jun 16, 2010)

Wirefresh headline: "iPhone micro-SIM won’t work with Apple’s iPad"
Wirefresh O2 quote: "iPad micro-SIM card will not work with your iPhone"

Is the headline a guess?


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## editor (Jun 16, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Wirefresh headline: "iPhone micro-SIM won’t work with Apple’s iPad"
> Wirefresh O2 quote: "iPad micro-SIM card will not work with your iPhone"
> 
> Is the headline a guess?


No idea why you're bringing this up because that style of writing is no different to hundreds of news reports you'll read today and every other day.


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## paolo (Jun 16, 2010)

editor said:


> No idea why you're bringing this up because that style of writing is no different to hundreds of news reports you'll read today and every other day.



Nothing to do with style of writing.

I'll let you see if you can work out the difference between the two statements.


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## Kanda (Jun 16, 2010)

Didn't notice that!


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## kyser_soze (Jun 17, 2010)

I've almost cracked godammit! All that stands between me and an iPad now is $700 (my keyboard's doing weird layout things on here and the grauniad today...)

Must hold on til it's thinner.


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## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

It's thin enough, surely!

PS: It's still performing 95% of my home computing. The honeymoon is over and I'm not going "ooh shiny new toy!" any more. Just getting on with it. Excellent


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## kyser_soze (Jun 17, 2010)

Nah, next year Jobs'll come along and declare the original 'primitive' and unveil something an atom wide that comes in it's own force field to stop it slicing your hands in two when you hold it.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 17, 2010)

I also suspect that the $700 may well be insurmountable for at least a year or so, what with the cash hoover daughter on the way and all.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Nah, next year Jobs'll come along and declare the original 'primitive' and unveil something an atom wide that comes in it's own force field to stop it slicing your hands in two when you hold it.



I'd like an 5mp camera on the back and a front facing camera on it. Be nice if they dropped the wifi line and replaced them with the wifi&3G line at the same price point too while I'm wishing...oh yeah give is iOS4 too.


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## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm usually pretty quick adopting new technology and I love the look of Apple's latest bit of gadgetry, but I'm still looking for the niche in my life that the iPad could fill. 

If it had an SD card so I could use it for my photography then I might be interested - it would be ace to be able to slam in a card from my camera, check out the images on a bigger screen, make some quick edits and upload it from a tablet. It seems mad that it hasn't got a video camera seeing as that's a big feature on the new iPhone too, but I guess that's for the next update (I really can't see Jobs keeping cameras off the iPad forever).


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2010)

I can see where it fits a great more easily if it had the camera. It'd good for casual sofa surfing, it'd also be useful with things like dropbox for reading briefing notes etc. It'd be great well doing viewings on properties, taking notes, photos etc...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 17, 2010)

editor said:


> If it had an SD card so I could use it for my photography then I might be interested - it would be ace to be able to slam in a card from my camera, check out the images on a bigger screen



Works well with the camera connection kit.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm usually pretty quick adopting new technology and I love the look of Apple's latest bit of gadgetry, but I'm still looking for the niche in my life that the iPad could fill.
> 
> If it had an SD card so I could use it for my photography then I might be interested - it would be ace to be able to slam in a card from my camera, check out the images on a bigger screen, make some quick edits and upload it from a tablet. It seems mad that it hasn't got a video camera seeing as that's a big feature on the new iPhone too, but I guess that's for the next update (I really can't see Jobs keeping cameras off the iPad forever).


I think you do too much regular content creation (esp. website editing) to have an ipad as a viable 2nd machine. The screen is lovely for photos though


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Works well with the camera connection kit.


Too clunky, too easy to lose/forget/break (I have form in this area) and it kicks the already high price up even further. 

My netbook is a hideous compromise and nowhere near as slick as an iPad, but it does all of the jobs I want to do a whole load better.

Mind you, I don't need a lot more features than what's already on the iPad, but the mix just isn't there for me at the moment.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The screen is lovely for photos though


Indeed - and that's why something like the iPad could be a perfect back-up/image viewing tool for photographers - but give me SD slots dammit! And proper USB ports.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

Well, even the mini has an SD slot now, so it's not impossible that a future model will have one.

It'll be interesting to see if they expand the range of ipads - eg. an ipad pro with 15 inch screen, sd slot, usb etc.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 17, 2010)

A friend of mine who is a consultant asked me about it and I said I thought he'd probably find it more useful than I do professionally. One strength is that it's extremely quick to display and share information to people who are there. For example I had it in the pub this afternoon - somebody came in asking for directions and I was able to pull up a map in a few seconds, at a size that was reasonable enough to actually read easily rather than phone-squinty. I can see that going to a client meeting with one loaded with some Keynote, samples, case histories etc would be very handy.

What it's really crying out for is a good multimedia database app. I have Bento for it which transforms the desktop app from a mediocre list maker into something actually potentially very useful. But there's a lot better that could be done. Apps are in development for this purpose as well; Circus Ponies Notebook should be a killer if and when it emerges, for mac users anyway.


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 17, 2010)

I know of a few industrial designers who use the ipad as a portfolio.  I haven't used a paper portfolio for years, I always take my laptop, but the iPad is a bit small  - a 15 inch one would be good, though.


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## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

Evernote is already quite good on it, although I'd like to be able to see images inline, without tapping them first


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 17, 2010)

Don't get me started on evernote


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## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

I'd better not!


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## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Evernote is already quite good on it, although I'd like to be able to see images inline, without tapping them first


Evernte.

I've lost count of the times I've given it 'one more go.'


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 17, 2010)

It's a big barrel of badger cocks


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## elbows (Jun 17, 2010)

I think Im going to need to put in an additional standard VPN at work because the one we currently use isnt standard so wont work with the iPad, and the need to keep doing quick tasks on work machines is forcing me to keep using the laptop, reducing my iPad time.

I finally got the Apple case for it a few days ago, ahh thats it much more practical in a number of ways, although its a shame I can t take it in and out of the case more quickly.

In the coming hours Im going to have a go with trial version of Flash to see what their basic initial flash-HTML5 stuff is like, and to see how many different elements I can animate on the iPad with good performance. If flash does a poor job of generating HTML5 & CSS3 then I will build the animation tests manually, still well chuffed with how smoothly full-screen photos within webpages can be swiped within the browser using CSS3 transforms & transitions.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2010)

Oh yummy I just noticed there is now an ipad-optimised version of Google Earth 

I didnt end up doing HTML5 flash tests tonight because a javascript touch-enabled application framework came out, its an iphone/ipad/android version of ext-js (now called Sencha) so there was lots for me to get my teeth into. Over the coming week or so I shall give it a try by writing an app that feeds off of JSON data from the likes of the Guardian.


----------



## grit (Jun 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Evernte.
> 
> I've lost count of the times I've given it 'one more go.'



I fucking hated it.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2010)

elbows said:


> Oh yummy I just noticed there is now an ipad-optimised version of Google Earth


I downloaded Google Earth on my iPhone. Went ooh! and aah! for a few minutes and then never used it again.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2010)

Great for showing off


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## elbows (Jun 18, 2010)

Google Earth is not as smooth as I was hoping, and the auto-tilt thing seems a bit jumpy.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Indeed - and that's why something like the iPad could be a perfect back-up/image viewing tool for photographers - but give me SD slots dammit! And proper USB ports.



SD slot? For sure - stupid ommision. 
USB? not a big deal  - dead input for the future.

The remote viewing over wifi, like I have on the iPhone for my Leaf digi back will come into it's own on the iPad with the ability to save to album as small jpegs added I'm sure.
& I'm certain that Canon & Nikon will have one for the higher end of their market very soon & eventually, the compact market will come on board too.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 18, 2010)

editor said:


> I downloaded Google Earth on my iPhone. Went ooh! and aah! for a few minutes and then never used it again.



Yep, same.
I deleted the app some time ago - waste of memory.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2010)

An SD card slot and a iPad updated version of the Photoshop app would actually be very nice thinking about it...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2010)

grit said:


> I fucking hated it.



I seem to download and start using it again every few months, it's ok for some things but not a full blown note solution really (I used Awesome Notes for my note taking stuff generally)...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 19, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> SD slot? For sure - stupid ommision.
> USB? not a big deal  - *dead input for the future.*
> 
> The remote viewing over wifi, like I have on the iPhone for my Leaf digi back will come into it's own on the iPad with the ability to save to album as small jpegs added I'm sure.
> & I'm certain that Canon & Nikon will have one for the higher end of their market very soon & eventually, the compact market will come on board too.



Doubt it, the current iPad will have been fully recycled before USB bites the dust.  Remember that every single USB device still works on every single USB machine or close to that, the power handling for some newer devices on USB 1.1 ports can make them fail from time to time but that's all.

Lightpeak is its natural successor, but that will take a while to take over.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2010)

I'd prefer an SD card slot than usb tbh. That said how many cameras have wifi these days?


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'd prefer an SD card slot than usb tbh. That said how many cameras have wifi these days?


Barely any - and it's a horrible drain on the battery anyway.

A removable card is far more efficient.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2010)

Yeah good point on battery...


----------



## elbows (Jun 22, 2010)

Apple have announced that they have now sold 3 million iPads. I think the traditional PC tablets have tended to sell less than that in a whole year.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 22, 2010)

Interesting graphs here: http://www.reghardware.com/2010/06/17/netbooks_vs_tablets/
Looks like the iPad is stealing net book sales


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2010)

elbows said:


> Apple have announced that they have now sold 3 million iPads. I think the traditional PC tablets have tended to sell less than that in a whole year.



Or decade.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 25, 2010)

A couple of weeks on, I can say that my major uses of the ipad are:

1. Keeping me awake when I should just go to sleep. It's even better than the iphone for that because the battery is bigger and its more fun browsing. I have had to ban both iPhone and ipad from the bedroom because of this.

2. Going to the pub while pretending to work, and actually getting some work done. Without the annoyance of having to boot up the laptop, lug it there in the first place, dial in with the dongle, make sure its asleep when go to the loo or lock it to the table etc. I can sling it in my bag, maybe with the Bluetooth keyboard, and it's small and light; just whip it out, turn on and I can write notes, outlines and documentation, plan tasks, clear my inbox etc. The 3G implementation is completely transparent as opposed to laptops and I'm much less restricted in the space I need to use it. I'm much more prepared to carry this around than a laptop which means I'm much more likely to have it when I come up with a good idea.

Of course none of this is specific to the iPad - it just happens to be the only real mobile tablet around at the moment.

I confess to still being more likely to use a fountain pen and paper notebook to write and diagram and so on but one can have both. Paper won't sync to the desktop - well, it will, by the conduit known as "typing it up".


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 25, 2010)

Oh, the other thing is the absurd battery life. I just don't even consider it, as long as I remember to plug it in when I get home. Or even sometimes not. I don't think I've ever gone below 50% even being really slack.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 25, 2010)

Oops wrong Apple thread.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 25, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh, the other thing is the absurd battery life. I just don't even consider it, as long as I remember to plug it in when I get home. Or even sometimes not. I don't think I've ever gone below 50% even being really slack.


It's liberating. "warning 20% battery" means "oh I'd better plug it in at bedtime then" as opposed to "shit shit shit where's the adapter"


----------



## hendo (Jun 26, 2010)

What apps do you use for work Fridge?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2010)

Nothing fancy - mail and safari obviously, Things for task management and basic planning, Outliner for er outlining, Simplenote for writing.

I have a copy of Omnigraffle but while it's great I don't actually use it in practice. Similarly with Pages. Its impressive that you can put quite serious content creation stuff on an ipad but to be honest I think they might be a bit misplaced, at least for the way I use it.


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## hendo (Jun 27, 2010)

I'm feeling the lack of a decent word processor. 

And the other thing I miss is tabbed browsing. I do wish firefox was on here.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2010)

What's wrong with the WP apps around at the moment?

I rarely have a lot of call for a WP, all the documents I write are plain text, outlines or at the most in HTML, so I don't really know.


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## Crispy (Jun 27, 2010)

hendo said:


> I'm feeling the lack of a decent word processor.
> 
> And the other thing I miss is tabbed browsing. I do wish firefox was on here.


Icab mobile browser. Get.


----------



## Winot (Jun 27, 2010)

Does anyone know if you can get a foldable bluetooth keyboard with a built-in trackpad?

The problem I am having with editing documents (on e.g. Pages) is accurately placing the cursor by touch - for some reason it seems harder than on the iPhone.


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## Crispy (Jun 27, 2010)

Trackpads, mice and other pointing devices are not supported by iOS. They don't map 1:1 with touch interface - you can't drag with touch, for example. I know what you mean about inaccurate cursoring though. It's easier if you press and then move it to where you need to be, but you do still sometimes get surplus movement as you lift your finger off. Given all the other adjustments for finger movement that they've made, it's weird that this still happens.


----------



## hendo (Jun 27, 2010)

Thanks Crispy icab is much better


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## Kanda (Jun 28, 2010)

Just realised. The O2 1GB/£10 a month deal is cumulative. Says I have 1.168GB left for 29 days.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Just realised. The O2 1GB/£10 a month deal is cumulative. Says I have 1.168GB left for 29 days.


Says it's "recurring" on their website. 

http://shop.o2.co.uk/ipadtariffs/index.html


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## Kanda (Jun 28, 2010)

Ah, didn't read that.


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## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Ah, didn't read that.


It's o2, innit? Tight bastards that give nothing away.

I can't wait to get off 'em. They make T-Mobile look reliable!


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## Structaural (Jun 28, 2010)

Have they made Jaadu for the iPad yet? 
That would be impressive on that device...


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## editor (Jun 29, 2010)

Idiot thinks it would be really k3wl to conduct a marriage ceremony with an iPad.
Idiot looks even more stupid when iPad overheats mid-ceremony.



http://gizmodo.com/5574759/an-ipad-wedding-gone-wrong


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## Gingerman (Jun 29, 2010)

Im tempted to get an ipad,how long do you reckon before the price comes down?


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## editor (Jun 29, 2010)

Want to know what's sadder than the high fivin' idiots who whoop their way out of Apple stores holding their expensive products aloft?
Try these pricks who film themselves shooting Apple products: http://mashable.com/2010/06/29/iphone-4-ipad-shot-then-returned


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## Crispy (Jun 29, 2010)

You should start a thread for those sort of reports, ed - be good to have them all in one place


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## Kanda (Jun 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You should start a thread for those sort of reports, ed - be good to have them all in one place



Already done it for him


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## editor (Jun 29, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You should start a thread for those sort of reports, ed - be good to have them all in one place


No thanks. I'll keep them in the related threads.


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## elbows (Jun 29, 2010)

Gingerman said:


> Im tempted to get an ipad,how long do you reckon before the price comes down?



Its not clear that the price will come down. The wobbly global financial situation makes it unclear how the pound will fare agains the dollar, which could affect Apples UK pricing in future. The VAT rise in January may make the price higher although its quite possible that Apple will absorb the VAT rise and leave the retail price unchanged.

And if Apple stick to form then we may be looking at 2nd generation of iPad in spring 2011, but they may leave the price the same and add a few features, or they may not even bring out a new model that soon.

My Dad did mention yesterday that he was seeing a lot of iPads popping up on ebay now, but I havent looked at prices or what countries they are being sold from.


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## Crispy (Jun 29, 2010)

There's a few that have sold recently - all at RRP or just under. No bargains yet.


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## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

People who have iPads. Now the initial purchase buz is over are you using the device a great deal?

I still can't see how it would fit into my lifestyle.

I use my laptop at home, my phone when out and about.
The only time i could see me wanting to carry around something bigger than my phone would be when traveling on holiday.


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## Kanda (Jun 29, 2010)

Use it all the time. Haven't touched my Macbook Pro.


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## Crispy (Jun 29, 2010)

I have barely touched my desktop computer since. It downloads films/tv and that's about it. I use my ipad for all my web, RSS, email, videos, TV, maps etc. I have a handful of games I play the hell out of. I find it's a joy to use and so much more convenient than a laptop (size/weight/battery/instant-on-off)

If I already owned a laptop, however, I doubt I would have got one.


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## Crispy (Jul 12, 2010)

Bought two excellent games recently

First, Osmos, a great indie puzzle/ambient/dexterity game where you can absorb things smaller than you, but must expel mass in order to move.







Second, Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge, Special Edition, one of the finest adventure games ever made, made to look modern-day pretty and with an excellent voice over cast.






(xbox screenshot, but the ipad version looks identical)


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2010)

Had my first play with one yesterday and have to say my impression was actually one big 'Meh'. I just couldn't see the point, yeah it's a nice screen, films, apps, surfing etc but it just felt too expensive for something that other devices I have do pretty well anyway...really expected to be wowed by it and get 'The Desire' to own it but it didn't materialise.

I mean yeah if someone bought one for me I wouldn't say no but can't see me getting an iPad any time soon...so yeah...meh.


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## ChrisFilter (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm starting to want one. But I use my iPhone single-handed a lot and can't do that with an ipad.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm starting to want one. But I use my iPhone single-handed a lot and can't do that with an ipad.


 
I really liked the look of one until I actually got to try it out. Kept thinking 'why would I buy this?' and trust me, if I can't think of a good argument for having a gadget (as my long suffering partner knows!) then it's probably not worth owning.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 12, 2010)

Gromit said:


> People who have iPads. Now the initial purchase buz is over are you using the device a great deal?
> 
> I still can't see how it would fit into my lifestyle.
> 
> ...


More than I did when I first got it. I only ever take my laptop out, now, when I'm going to the office - and that, only when I know I'm going to be needing to do proper dev work, which really needs a full-fat computer.

There isn't an awful lot that is _impossible_ to do on the iPhone that can be done on the iPad, but it is _so_ much easier with a larger screen and more powerful setup. Processing your inbox. Sketching wireframes or pictures. Mindmapping. Typing things of any length. Task management. Looking at maps or images. The web is a thousand times better and for lots of things, better than a laptop. And it's a properly portable machine, unlike a laptop where you have to haul it out of your bag, wake it up, connect 3G dongle, put it to sleep when you're done etc etc. The laptop really has been relegated to the "movable desktop" position now.


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## paolo (Aug 13, 2010)

Very similar here. I've hardly booted the shiny new 1080P VAIO since I've got the iPad. No lumpy carrying around the house, no battery dead in an hour or two, fetching the PSU... the pick up-browse-put down thing is great.

It's not a laptop replacement. If I had to choose, I'd keep the VAIO. It's a full blown computer. But for the more casual stuff - which is most of my home use - the iPad works better. A luxury item, sure, but no regrets so far.


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 13, 2010)

I can't believe OS4 isn't up and running on the ipad, get it together Apple


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 15, 2010)

Yeah that's a very odd decision, guess they're holding back so they can add it as a big new thing to get excited about?


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## elbows (Aug 17, 2010)

Why hello there vocoder for iPad:



Now heres a clever way to represent music loop sequences.



If the first months are anything to go by, music creation on touchscreen tablets has quite some potential.


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## Bruce (Aug 19, 2010)

Yeah I use my iPad loads. I still use my desktop pc (and xbox) for gaming and my laptop for working at home. I use them nowhere near as much any more and even then I still have my iPad running at the same time for general browsing or bits on the side - like having a second screen.

Plus I tried to read a paperback today and hated it, I have truly adopted the iPad as my preferred way of reading. Just hope more books are put on so that I never have to put up with any other paperback!


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2010)

Bruce said:


> Plus I tried to read a paperback today and hated it, I have truly adopted the iPad as my preferred way of reading. Just hope more books are put on so that I never have to put up with any other paperback!


It's not so good for your eyes, you know. 

What's so hateful about reading a book, by the way?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2010)

Bruce said:


> Yeah I use my iPad loads. I still use my desktop pc (and xbox) for gaming and my laptop for working at home. I use them nowhere near as much any more and even then I still have my iPad running at the same time for general browsing or bits on the side - like having a second screen.
> 
> Plus I tried to read a paperback today and hated it, I have truly adopted the iPad as my preferred way of reading. Just hope more books are put on so that I never have to put up with any other paperback!



Seems you're not alone, recent study found something like 40% of owners prefer to use the iPad to read books over 'real' ones...


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## Crispy (Aug 19, 2010)

why isn't it good for your eyes? I spend my entire working day infront of a computer screen and that doesn't seem to do me much harm. if there is some mechanism by which reading a book on a computer can harm your eyes, I'd like to know about it.


----------



## paolo (Aug 19, 2010)

(awaits cherry-picked 'evidence'  )


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> why isn't it good for your eyes? I spend my entire working day infront of a computer screen and that doesn't seem to do me much harm. if there is some mechanism by which reading a book on a computer can harm your eyes, I'd like to know about it.


 
Not sure about the iPad but computer screens aren't good for your eyes...


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 19, 2010)

I spend the entire working day in front of a computer screen and it makes me blink and stare like a demented lemur.


----------



## paolo (Aug 19, 2010)

"Don't watch too much television - it's bad for your eyes".

Anyone old enough to remember that?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not sure about the iPad but computer screens aren't good for your eyes...


 
Yeah but WHY?


----------



## Kanda (Aug 20, 2010)

Reading a book sends me to sleep, but I can read from a computer/ipad screen all day long.


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2010)

I assume a lot of the potential eye issues are to do with screen brightness & contrast. Ive been lucky, never had a problem with my eyes yet despite years in front of monitors, and years as a child sitting for too close to a dodgy telly screen playing on 8-bit computers.

I dont presently have any problem reading books on the ipad but I do look forward to the continual development of screen technology that is better suited to this task.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 20, 2010)

_Because_ I spend all day staring at a screen, I don't want to read on one in the evenings. I don't unwind properly if I do that.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2010)

I can understand that argument, but is there actually something about reading from a screen that's not good for your eyes?


----------



## Kanda (Aug 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I can understand that argument, but is there actually something about reading from a screen that's not good for your eyes?


 
You get free eye tests if you sit in front of a screen all day for work... there must be some basis for that?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 20, 2010)

I think it stems from when most monitors were CRTs, something to do with their flicker compared to the flicker from shit office lighting.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I can understand that argument, but is there actually something about reading from a screen that's not good for your eyes?


 
Not that I'm aware of, although Bees' CRT suggestion seems to make sense.

Fwiw, I really like iBooks, I just can't see me sitting at home reading from it. For out and about, it's excellent.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2010)

Yes, that's correct on the CRT thing.


----------



## magneze (Aug 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I can understand that argument, but is there actually something about reading from a screen that's not good for your eyes?


My optician said that staring at a monitor means not blinking as much as normal, which is bad.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 23, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think it stems from when most monitors were CRTs, something to do with their flicker compared to the flicker from shit office lighting.


 


Crispy said:


> Yes, that's correct on the CRT thing.


 
Correct. It was to do with screen refresh rates on CRTs. Anything below 85hz could cause eyestrain in some people. The higher the better for people. This isn't a factor with LCDs for some reason.



magneze said:


> My optician said that staring at a monitor means not blinking as much as normal, which is bad.



The dry eyes factor of not blinking as much can also be a health concern for those who wear contact lenses. Not so much a concern for anyone else.

/former DSE Assessment expert


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 26, 2010)

Gonna get one tomorrow I think.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2010)

you won't regret it


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 26, 2010)

Well, if nothing else the PSX emulator will keep me busy!

(I will be jailbreaking)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Gonna get one tomorrow I think.


 
Which model?


----------



## Gromit (Aug 26, 2010)

Summo wrestlers given iPads as their fingers are too fat for phones 

WWW.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082125


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2010)

Although Chris - there will very likely be a spec bump soon. If they get the RAM up to 512MB, you'll see much better multitasking when iOS4 comes out for it. Just saying


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 26, 2010)

Well, if nothing else the PSX emulator will keep me busy!

(I will be jailbreaking)


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 26, 2010)

How far off is the spec bump do you think? Surely they won't fuck the early adopters after less than 6 months?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> How far off is the spec bump do you think? Surely they won't fuck the early adopters after less than 6 months?


 
Well the original iphone had a storage bump 6 months after release...

But yeah, maybe it is too soon for a RAM boost. Sod it, get one anyway = it'll work just fine


----------



## elbows (Aug 26, 2010)

We might expect new models in time for the Christmas market but Im not altogether sure.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 26, 2010)

Surely everyone will be clamouring for facetime enabled ipads before long if the ipod range gets to have them by next week.


----------



## paolo (Aug 28, 2010)

Loving: AirVideo.

Use the dusty laptop as a server

Play / convert at will from the pad. Super.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 30, 2010)

It's very nice


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 31, 2010)

Wow, I love the Comics app. Never read comics and superhero stuff is, to me, lame, but there's loads of free graphic novels on there. Very impressive.

And oh my fucking wow to the Korg iElectribe app. I'm gonna lose days to this thing 

I'm very impressed. I get where it fits in the product set now. One of those things that only really starts to make full sense when you start using it.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 31, 2010)

Play _Osmos_


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 2, 2010)

Have they announced when iOS4 is out for iPad yet? I can't jailbreak my 3.2.2 device and they aren't going to bother trying to hack it - moving straight onto 4... VERY frustrating.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

November


----------



## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

November Im afraid.

edit - oops I didnt see the last page of this thread.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 2, 2010)

Yeah, I thought so. 

My own fucking fault, I upgraded to 3.2.2 without doing proper research. I mean, I googled it and everything, but it wasn't until I dug deeper that I realised I'd backed myself into a corner.

Grrr. I want Snes/n64/psx games.


----------



## paolo (Sep 3, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Play _Osmos_


 
Thanks for that. Very nice.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 9, 2010)

VLC coming to the iPad, which will/would be nice.
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/09/09/vlc-coming-to-the-ipad/


----------



## elbows (Sep 9, 2010)

I hope VLC actually gets approved, I have some doubts about that but we will see.

I will then be very interested to see how battery life when playing non-h.264 movies via VLC compares with playing the standard ipad h.264 format videos in the existing movie player, as Im assuming the built in stuff makes efficient use of the processing hardware and VLC will be lucky if it can match it. Other performance issues such as framerate of great interest too.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 15, 2010)

Once you get past the corporate marketing crap - this is quite impressive - light painting with an iPad:


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2010)

Our very own hendo has written a fantastic piece detailing the best news apps on the iPad:
http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-ipad-and-the-news-the-killer-apps-listed/


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2010)

The iPad is now available in China.

http://gizmodo.com/5640644/an-apple-superfans-rudy-moment


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2010)

He made his own t-shirt. Aww, somehow this one is so over the top that it amuses me rather than annoys me like they usually do.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2010)

elbows said:


> He made his own t-shirt. Aww, somehow this one is so over the top that it amuses me rather than annoys me like they usually do.


Matching Apple iBorg Staff blue too!

Bless.


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2010)

Sounds like VLC is coming out in a few hours (once it becomes Tuesday here). Apples slightly more relaxed stance to a range of app issues (eg duplicating built-in functionality) is very welcome. Still control freaks, but at least the grip isnt quite so tight.

Seen some rumours about new model of iPad next year, which would fit with the idea that they will do a new model once a year. A camera for facetime is the main change sites go on about. I cant think of many possible new features that would compel me to get a new model, although I really hope they improve the speakers one day. A need for more RAM could quickly become an issue once the multitasking OS is out I suppose. Weight is a slight issue, although I dont want them to offer anything with less battery life than the current model, Id rather it stays the same weight if it comes down to it. Other than USB or memory card slot nothing else really springs to mind for improvements, my other wishes are fantasy for the forseeable future, eg foldable screen that has some sort of 'readable in sunlight' mode without compromising the current screen capabilities. I suppose they will bump the screen res up one day, although they should wait till they can ensure the processor & gpu are up to the task of pushing a lot more pixels around.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2010)

Hopefully the increased threat from Android will force Apple to relax further. Competition is a good thing in this market...


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2010)

That and they probably realised they were going to have some legal woes & more bad publicity as a result.

VLC came out, it works ok


----------



## Crispy (Sep 21, 2010)

It doesn't work over the network does it? (VLC)


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2010)

No it just plays local files that you transfer via the usual itunes app file method as far as I know. No wmv support either.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 21, 2010)

Bah  If they can get a simple local-server-browsing, multi-format player going on iPad, I'll be on it like a shot.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 21, 2010)

You want the moon on a stick.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 21, 2010)

with strawberry sauce please


----------



## g force (Sep 21, 2010)

elbows said:


> Sounds like VLC is coming out in a few hours (once it becomes Tuesday here). Apples slightly more relaxed stance to a range of app issues (eg duplicating built-in functionality) is very welcome. Still control freaks, but at least the grip isnt quite so tight.
> 
> Seen some rumours about new model of iPad next year, which would fit with the idea that they will do a new model once a year. A camera for facetime is the main change sites go on about. I cant think of many possible new features that would compel me to get a new model, although I really hope they improve the speakers one day. A need for more RAM could quickly become an issue once the multitasking OS is out I suppose. Weight is a slight issue, although I dont want them to offer anything with less battery life than the current model, Id rather it stays the same weight if it comes down to it. Other than USB or memory card slot nothing else really springs to mind for improvements, my other wishes are fantasy for the forseeable future, eg foldable screen that has some sort of 'readable in sunlight' mode without compromising the current screen capabilities. I suppose they will bump the screen res up one day, although they should wait till they can ensure the processor & gpu are up to the task of pushing a lot more pixels around.


 
Not sure about USB/memory slots on the iPad...personally i'd love them but I think they've been purposely left off to avoid it killing the Macbook Air.


----------



## paolo (Sep 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Bah  If they can get a simple local-server-browsing, multi-format player going on iPad, I'll be on it like a shot.


 
You tried AirVideo?

Local server browsing, on the fly format conversion, etc.


----------



## grit (Sep 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Bah  If they can get a simple local-server-browsing, multi-format player going on iPad, I'll be on it like a shot.


 
Viewing a shared drive and playing back a lot of codecs isn't exactly a moon and stars request in fairness.


----------



## paolo (Sep 21, 2010)

grit said:


> Viewing a shared drive and playing back a lot of codecs isn't exactly a moon and stars request in fairness.


 
Which is why it exists, today.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 21, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You tried AirVideo?
> 
> Local server browsing, on the fly format conversion, etc.


 
Yeah, it's great but canes my computer while I'm using it. With native .avi streaming, I could finally excuse myself a little NAS box and leave my computer off.


----------



## paolo (Sep 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, it's great but canes my computer while I'm using it. With native .avi streaming, I could finally excuse myself a little NAS box and leave my computer off.


 
Ah yeah. The reencoding is CPU heavy.

As elbows also said earlier, I wonder if the A4 is actually up to decoding any old bitrate random codec stuff. (or does this implementation of VMC prove that it is? Do AVI files transfer from iTunes without reencoding to h.264? Do they play OK? elbows?)


----------



## Crispy (Sep 21, 2010)

The Internet reports that SD videos play well and although the battery doesn't last as long its not catastrophic


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2010)

There is no reencoding. Performance seems to be as Crispy indicates. But I've not used it enough yet to form strong conclusions, nor have I tried to push the res etc to the point where it cant handle it anymore.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 21, 2010)

I just loaded three random DVD-res DivX files onto it and they all seem to be playing fine.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 21, 2010)

Does subtitles too, as long as the SRT or SUB file has the same base filename as the movie (i.e. the standard way).


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2010)

Get in quick if you fancy bagging a back up power source for your iPad:



> HyperMac will stop selling MacBook charging cables on November 2 -- Apple wins, you lose
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2010)

Get in quick if you want a back up power source for your macbook, you mean. It's just the magsafe connector issue here, which doesn't affect the ipad at all.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2010)

More diligence required in the quest to find something negative to say about apple tablets


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2010)

elbows said:


> More diligence required in the quest to find something negative to say about apple tablets


 
LOL!


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2010)

elbows said:


> More diligence required in the quest to find something negative to say about apple tablets


Where did I say anything negative about Apple's tablets? I just quoted from the biggest tech site on the planet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Where did I say anything negative about Apple's tablets? I just quoted from the biggest tech site on the planet.


 
I believe this may, just may have been something called a 'joke'.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Where did I say anything negative about Apple's tablets? I just quoted from the biggest tech site on the planet.


 
You are quoting an article that has nothing to do with iPads in the iPad thread, so Im only half joking.


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2010)

elbows said:


> You are quoting an article that has nothing to do with iPads in the iPad thread, so Im only half joking.


I could be wrong but I could have sworn I'm seeing a big iPad in the picture that accompanied the article!

Anyway, I didn't make a single negative comment about the iPad and that's the end of it.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2010)

The article's not about the iPad at all.


----------



## paolo (Oct 18, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The article's not about the iPad at all.


 
That was what confused me. I read it several times and still couldn't figure it out.

So all is now revealed. It was posted here because there was a picture.

If anyone else sees any pictures of an iPad in the news, please do let us know.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2010)

editor said:


> I could be wrong but I could have sworn I'm seeing a big iPad in the picture that accompanied the article!


 
The relevant part of the picture in relation to the story is the red banner that says they are ceasing the sale of the MacBook charging cables. So you dont need to 'get in quick' if you want that particular ipad backup power source. Crispy pointed this out before I even spoke so Im not sure why this part of the conversation continues! 

You didnt make any negative iPad comments in relation to this device, that was thejoke part of my comment, although its only possible to make this joke because you have something of a reputation for not exactly being Apples biggest fan. Nothing wrong with that, although pushed to the extreme it will cause some goofs like me to occasionally extrapolate the urine, quite ineffectively it seems!


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2010)

Well if Steve Jobs comments on the earnings conference call are anything to go by, rumours of a smaller iPad in the not-too-distant future are balls:



> He also forecast that would-be rivals to Apple's iPad tablet computer would struggle to make a mark because many were offering screens only 7" diagonally – "which is only 45% of the area of the iPad," Jobs said. "We think these 7" tablets will be DOA – dead on arrival. They'll learn the painful lesson that they're too small and have to expand them next year."





> Asked whether rival tablets so far announced – which will run Google's Android 2.2 software, and have 7" screens – posed a threat, Jobs was scornful. "You might think a 7" screen would have 70% of the size of a 10" screen, but that measure is diagonal. In fact it's only 45% of the area of an iPad screen. If you take an iPad and draw an imaginary horizontal line halfway along, that's the size of a 7" tablet display."
> 
> He added: "The only way they're going to sell is if they come with sandpaper, because you're going to have to sand peoples' fingers down so they can work it. You can't run the software you need on a screen that small."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/19/apple-profits-rise-ipad-mac

Of course his comments about sanding peoples fingers down to use them are silly given he sells iphones. Software can be made to work well with a range of screen sizes. The question is whether the sort of apps that people want on a tablet are ok at the smaller size, and we will just have to wait and see how competitors do to find out.


----------



## paolo (Oct 19, 2010)

The remark which I thought "nod", was...



> "We've now passed RIM [which sold 12.1m phones in the comparable quarter], and I don't see them catching up with us. It's going to be a challenge for them to become a competitive platform and to persuade developers to develop for a third platform after iOS and Android."



It's all about Android and iPhone now. Ultimately Android by volume. RIM? Too big to fail? Remember Netware?


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2010)

Im really very happy with the way music software is progressing on this platform. Here is the latest.







http://www.korg.com/ims20

Hellooooo baby!


----------



## electroplated (Nov 9, 2010)

Wicked!


----------



## Crispy (Nov 9, 2010)

Nice!


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2010)

Ha it seems ReBirth for iPad came out yesterday too


----------



## electroplated (Nov 10, 2010)

bloody hell... didn't need to build that 303 after all


----------



## Crispy (Nov 10, 2010)

Just need Reason now


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2010)

Does anyone know when the next gen iPad is due? not sure i can wait much longer but i need it to have a cam


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2010)

_"I'm too sexy for my iPad!"_





> The print edition of Esquire’s November issue, featuring the newly crowned “sexiest woman alive,” Minka Kelly, hit newsstands in mid-October — yet four weeks after it was submitted to Apple for approval, the iPad edition of the issue has yet to appear in the App Store.
> 
> The problem? The issue is simply too risque for the App Store, one source familiar with the matter told Mashable. The publication has submitted a revised version it expects to be approved in the next few days, around the time the December issue is slated to hit the App Store.
> 
> ...




http://mashable.com/2010/11/16/esquire-sexiest-woman-alive-app-store


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2010)

Apparently Damon Albarn is making the new Gorillaz album solely on his iPad...which is er interesting...


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently Damon Albarn is making the new Gorillaz album solely on his iPad...which is er interesting...


I'm sure it will sound very good and do a great job of showing off the iPad's abilities, but it all seems a bit gimmicky. Perhaps Apple are throwing him a big wedge to do it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm sure it will sound very good and do a great job of showing off the iPad's abilities, but it all seems a bit gimmicky. Perhaps Apple are throwing him a big wedge to do it?


 
Before the Times adverts I'd said he seems like the kinda artist that likes to innovate but now...?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 17, 2010)

gabi said:


> Does anyone know when the next gen iPad is due? not sure i can wait much longer but i need it to have a cam


 
^This.

I need to have full skype functionality and unfortunately if there's no camera then its not good enough.


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## Kanda (Nov 17, 2010)

iPad wins Stuff Magazine's gadget of the Year awards 2010.


----------



## TitanSound (Nov 17, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently Damon Albarn is making the new Gorillaz album solely on his iPad...which is er interesting...


 
Sounds like when all those superstar DJ's lent their names to mix CD's that were done in some studio by a pro tools engineer i.e. rubbish


----------



## Crispy (Nov 17, 2010)

Dunno, there's some damn powerful audio apps on it now. He'll mix and master on PT, I'm sure, but using the ipad to generate/record/manipulate all audio? Totally doable.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Totally doable.


 
Still fucking pointless though


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 17, 2010)

Some of the DJ apps look very cool - if a little too gimicky to consider replacing tracktor with at the moment.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2010)

Heh just come on here to post this! Been playing with the Mac version the last few days, great fun. And man I'm so getting an iPad when 2.0 comes out!


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2010)

Havent used much of the stuff in 4.2 yet, but oh thank heavens for finally having home screen folders, its been a long wait.

Must get camera connection kit USB port so I can see if the new USB midi support works with any of the apps Ive got.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 23, 2010)

Multitasking is the big yay for me


----------



## Winot (Nov 24, 2010)

And a bonus is that you can now deploy orientation lock from the screen cf iPhone - good for iPads in cases which make the physical button difficult to get to.


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## elbows (Nov 24, 2010)

Yeah I think the physical button sets mute now instead.


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## Crispy (Nov 24, 2010)

elbows said:


> Yeah I think the physical button sets mute now instead.


 
Except this "mute" only mutes alarms/alerts, not music, websites, games, videos etc.
Useless. I'd much rather have orientation lock.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 24, 2010)

New acer duel screen tablet. Shades of the Courier anyone?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 24, 2010)

In hardware, yes. The courier was exciting due to its very interesting software and interface.


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 24, 2010)

Thinking of getting an iPad for Xmas,can I Bluetooth stuff from my HTC desire onto it or dos it only accept data from other apple products


----------



## paolo (Nov 24, 2010)

Crispy said:


> In hardware, yes. The courier was exciting due to its very interesting software and interface.


 
Did it exist? I thought it was a video.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 24, 2010)

It had an exciting mockup video


----------



## paolo (Nov 24, 2010)

I watched Dixon of Dock Green the other day. I tell you what, he could teach other policemen a thing or two!


----------



## Crispy (Nov 25, 2010)

Gingerman said:


> Thinking of getting an iPad for Xmas,can I Bluetooth stuff from my HTC desire onto it or dos it only accept data from other apple products


 
No you can't Bluetooth stuff onto it. Have to go via a comupter


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Nov 26, 2010)

some sort of sale on at apple store online today
http://store.apple.com/uk

Macs, ipads, ipods all appear to be discounted (a bit)


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 30, 2010)

£200 ipads http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/29/ipad_subsidy/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> £200 ipads http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/29/ipad_subsidy/


 
So basically you pay about 80 quid more for the finance option...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 30, 2010)

Well, yes, that's how network deals always work isn't it? But I don't think it will make so much difference here, because the iPad isn't being introduced into a marketplace where people automatically expect that sort of "cheap now but get screwed over two years" deal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, yes, that's how network deals always work isn't it? But I don't think it will make so much difference here, because the iPad isn't being introduced into a marketplace where people automatically expect that sort of "cheap now but get screwed over two years" deal.


 
Sure, wasn't a criticism more just thinking out loud, 80 quid to spread the payment isn't that bad really, that's what 10% which is less than some finance deals...


----------



## Kanda (Nov 30, 2010)

People have been signing up for dongle and crap netbook deals long enough, could work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2010)

Speaking of the iPad...what do people think about the lates rumours of the iPad 2? The USB one seems to be the biggest eyebrow raiser, retina screen would be nice too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 30, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sure, wasn't a criticism more just thinking out loud, 80 quid to spread the payment isn't that bad really, that's what 10% which is less than some finance deals...


Technically perhaps - but two year data deals are always a bad idea IME, on any product. The cost of data subscriptions keeps going down, even within the same company.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Technically perhaps - but two year data deals are always a bad idea IME, on any product. The cost of data subscriptions keeps going down, even within the same company.


 
Thinking in strictly financial terms but yeah you're right about the data deals likely to get better...reckon and iPad should easily last two years though in terms of wear and tear...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 30, 2010)

That sort of solid-state, consumer-durable hardware should last almost indefinitely unless you actively break it. There are plenty of people who still have first-gen iPhones around - they abandon them because of the availability of new software, not because the original units stop working.


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> £200 ipads http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/29/ipad_subsidy/


 
That Bill Ray doesn't half write some bollocks:

"The iPhone was originally sold without a network subsidy, which is why it didn't have 3G or MMS."

Eh?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 30, 2010)

either way for £250 you can have a 32 gig ipad which I think's actually a good deal even when you look at the two year instalment plan...


----------



## sim667 (Nov 30, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> either way for £250 you can have a 32 gig ipad which I think's actually a good deal even when you look at the two year instalment plan...


 
Well its not really £250 is it....... if you have to have a £28 a month contract for 2 years.........


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 30, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Well its not really £250 is it....... if you have to have a £28 a month contract for 2 years.........


 
£27 and no but it's money down the repayments aren't that much 4 packs of fags a month, in effect...


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 7, 2010)

UPDATE 1-IPad 2 to start shipping as early as Feb -report



> Dec 7 (Reuters) - Apple Inc's (AAPL.O) next iPad tablet will start shipping as early as the end of February from electronics maker Foxconn Electronics' factories in China, DigiTimes reported on Tuesday.
> 
> The report, citing unnamed sources from Taiwan-based components makers, said Apple originally planned to start mass production of the new device, known as iPad 2, in January.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 7, 2010)

A little earlier than this year...good time too, that month is the first month most people are financially recovered from the Christmas splurge...


----------



## editor (Dec 7, 2010)

DigiTimes posts up a right load of made up shite most of the time.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2010)

Lots of photos of ipad2 cases out there. They show holes for a rear-facing camera (so we can assume a front-facing one too) and what is described as an SD slot (seems like the right size)


----------



## g force (Dec 10, 2010)

Good....it needs an SD and preferably a USB too though I doubt they really want to give it one.


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 10, 2010)

Wouldn't it dent their christmas sales if they were to update in february - april seems much more likely.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 10, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> £27 and no but it's money down the repayments aren't that much 4 packs of fags a month, in effect...


 
Well it works out at £848 in total as opposed to £599 for just buying one......So you end up paying £10.38 a month for 1GB on peak and 1GB off peak GB of data, which you can hardly claim is a bargain considering you can get 3 3 mobile micro sims on prepay with 10GB of data for £15, and considering it doesnt have a phone number assigned to the sim, you can just order a new one when ever it runs out...... essentially on top of the cost of the ipad you'd get 48 gigs of data over 2 years costing you £249, where as with 3 prepay sims from 3 for a comparitive amount (50 GB is the nearest) it would cost you £75..... bearing in mind 1 GB of data each month is restricted to off peak, the orange deal is actually complete dogshite.

If you really want an ipad over xmas, and were considering the orange deal, the cheapest way to do it is to go to cancom, take out their £0 depostit 0% interest offer over ten months and use the prepay sims from 3...... on the basis of the orange deal that you'd use 2 gb a month for 2 years then doing it this way would cost you £62.15 for the first 10 months, then £3.13 for the next 14 months, making a grand total of £664.82, in other words £184 cheaper than the orange plan.

references:
3g data sims with 10GB preloaded

Cancom offer


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Lots of photos of ipad2 cases out there. They show holes for a rear-facing camera (so we can assume a front-facing one too) and what is described as an SD slot (seems like the right size)


 
Links? An SD slot would be very nice but a USB port would be great!


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2010)

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...d_cases_suggest_rear_camera_sd_card_slot.html

USB port is very unlikely, given Apple's desire to present an it-just-works device. They don't want people calling the helpline asking why their $30 USB wingwang-mi-doodle doesn't work with their new computer. Don't expect the SD slot to be open-access either. My guess is that it'll be no more than an internal version of the Camera Connection kit, allowing transfer of photos/videos from cameras, but no more.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2010)

<curses vB's double post frenzy >


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2010)

Without a built-in USB and SD card slot, a tablet seems hopelessly crippled to me. With all those great iPad editing apps, it would be handy to slam in a camera's SD card or hook up a USB drive/storage device, but it seems that Apple wants people to pay out twice and lug even more losable peripherals around.



> Complaints have surfaced over Apple’s iPad Camera Connection Kit, after iPad owners upgrading their tablets to iOS 4.2 have apparently discovered the adapter no longer provides sufficient power. 9 to 5 Mac claims Apple has reduced the power supply from 100mAh to just 20mAh, which means that many cameras – along with keyboards, microphones and flash drives – now throw up an error message warning “The connected USB device requires too much power.”
> 
> Apple has never publicly promised that the Camera Connection Kit – which includes two dongles, one with an SD card reader and the other with a USB port – would work with keyboards and other non-camera peripherals; still, many iPad users rely on the adapter for easier text entry and for holding VoIP conversations using USB headsets.
> 
> http://www.slashgear.com/ipad-ios-4-2-power-loss-leaves-connection-kit-users-in-the-cold-07117992/


----------



## elbows (Dec 10, 2010)

Im not convinced that a USB port is highly unlikely - after all the latest iOS supports some USB midi stuff for music software.

Having said that Im not banking on it either.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im not convinced that a USB port is highly unlikely - after all the latest iOS supports some USB midi stuff for music software.
> 
> Having said that Im not banking on it either.


 
Yeah, and the latest iOS update broke it, restricting the power available through the dock connector from 100mA to 20mA


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Without a built-in USB and SD card slot, a tablet seems hopelessly crippled to me. With all those great iPad editing apps, it would be handy to slam in a camera's SD card or hook up a USB drive/storage device, but it seems that Apple wants people to pay out twice and lug even more losable peripherals around.


 
Things like Dropbox are going to kill USB drives.


----------



## editor (Dec 11, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Things like Dropbox are going to kill USB drives.


Not much use if you're a photographer in the field though. USB drives (or similar local storage) aren't going away any time soon.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2010)

Eta: misread post!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Not much use if you're a photographer in the field though. USB drives (or similar local storage) aren't going away any time soon.


 
I've got a photo viewer storage thingy for that tho and that's pocket sized.

I wouldn't want to lug an additional thing around like an iPad when shooting unless it was capable of running photoshop or something... 

went for one of these over one of these purely on the storage.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 13, 2010)

My mate is selling a 16 GB wifi ipad for £360, still with full warranty...... Im very tempted, but im meant to be saving up for a mac.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I've got a photo viewer storage thingy for that tho and that's pocket sized.
> 
> I wouldn't want to lug an additional thing around like an iPad when shooting unless it was capable of running photoshop or something...
> 
> went for one of these over one of these purely on the storage.


Thing is, I want less gadgets and less power supplies to lug about. I currently use my netbook and a pile of memory sticks as a 'double' back up for trips away, but a smaller tablet with decent storage and SD slots could be a handy replacement.

You can do a lot of Photoshop-like editing online now, so a good browser and a reasonably nippy tablet could be a good travel solution.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 13, 2010)

Im seriously contemplating this ipad..... he's asking for £360 for it, its an unopened 16GB wifi only ipad. He won it in a comp, but he's already got one....... I've got enough in the bank for a new macbook, which i was thinking about buying, but mainly I wanted something just for browsing t'internet, doing facebook and forums on while im watching a bit of tv...... I've got a mac pro for all my photography stuff....

Someone help me make up my mind, pleeeeasse


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 13, 2010)

You'd only be saving £69 - will you get a full 12 months guarantee? Plus there's an update scheduled.

If you were already thinking of getting a macbook than an ipad is no substitute.

I've got a mac-mini and a macbookpro but really couldn't justify buying an ipad, particularly at this point of its evolution.


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## Kanda (Dec 13, 2010)

Wouldn't bother right now.

wouldn't bother with just a WiFi one either.


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## Crispy (Dec 13, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Im seriously contemplating this ipad..... he's asking for £360 for it, its an unopened 16GB wifi only ipad. He won it in a comp, but he's already got one....... I've got enough in the bank for a new macbook, which i was thinking about buying, but mainly I wanted something just for browsing t'internet, doing facebook and forums on while im watching a bit of tv...... I've got a mac pro for all my photography stuff....
> 
> Someone help me make up my mind, pleeeeasse


 
I've got an ipad, sparrow's got a macbook. My machine is much more convenient and comfortable for the lounge. Battery life in particular is a huge benefit, as is weight and heat (even the new alumnium ones get warm, and that's just not nice on your thighs). At that price, I think you'd be getting a great solution for your needs.


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## Piers Gibbon (Dec 13, 2010)

they are a luxury item but after just a few days of having it around I feel that even a wifi only ipad is never going to be unused in my household...propped it up next to the bath for a tv news catchup...lent to guests..recipes in the kitchen

there's something about the no boot-up time, no keyboard closing down, no heat + looong battery life combo that changes how it gets used.


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## Crispy (Dec 13, 2010)

Spot on, Gibbon. A laptop may be more capable, but it's only just more portable than a desktop. A netbook is more portable, but then you start compromising on performance and interface. And it's still going to warm your thighs, take time to start/stop and only get 4-5 hours battery _if you're lucky_.


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## editor (Dec 13, 2010)

Crispy said:


> A netbook is more portable, but then you start compromising on performance and interface. And it's still going to warm your thighs, take time to start/stop and only get 4-5 hours battery _if you're lucky_.


Actually, loads of netbooks offer 8+ hours battery life. 
http://www.fantastic-netbooks.co.uk/netbook-rankings/longest-battery-life/

http://blog.laptopmag.com/long-lasting-laptops-to-help-cut-the-cord


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## sim667 (Dec 13, 2010)

Well I have decided to go for it, Ive got enough for the macbook anyway, so all im going do is put off buying that for a few months........ and if i decide i dont like the ipad after a month, ill sell it on for £270-£300 ish (my grandma thinking about buying it anyway). Mainly Ill be using it for ebooks, VNC and streaming via airvideo, if i can find a way to stream music to it then that would be a bonus, but i can do that to my xbox, and my powerbook still does it fine anyway...... 

Basically ive got him down enough, so I'd essentially pay full price, but i'd get the applecare free...... which is good for me, the thing that does worry me is because there's no receipt (it was a competition prize) will the manufacturers warranty be valid if it goes wrong? I cant remember how apple warranties work, i've had to show a receipt from what i recall.


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## electroplated (Dec 13, 2010)

i didn't need to show anything to get my ipad replaced, and that was one i bought in hawaii, so i'd have thought you'd be ok


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 13, 2010)

They do it by serial number. I've never had to show a receipt to get something fixed (I never *have* a paper receipt from Apple - I get it emailed to me whenever I buy anything).


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## sim667 (Dec 13, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They do it by serial number. I've never had to show a receipt to get something fixed (I never *have* a paper receipt from Apple - I get it emailed to me whenever I buy anything).


 
ah awesome, does that mean the scan the serial barcode before the make the exchange then?


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 13, 2010)

Well, you can get the serial from the firmware of the iPad, it's in the preferences somewhere (same with the iPhone). I've certainly never had any issues with any Apple product to do with documentation, I just take stuff into the shop. I've never had a second-hand one repaired but from what I understand, Applecare and warranties are fully transferrable.


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## sim667 (Dec 14, 2010)

Will i need to buy seperate apps to my iphone?

Its things like VLC etc i dont want to pay for again (well i got it free first time round).


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## Crispy (Dec 14, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Will i need to buy seperate apps to my iphone?
> 
> Its things like VLC etc i dont want to pay for again (well i got it free first time round).


 
No, all your iphone apps will run on the ipad. Some will be 'universal' apps that have proper ipad interface built-in. Others will run in pixel-doubled mode, which is usable, but looks all blocky. VLC is a Universal app.


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## editor (Dec 14, 2010)

Thread continues over here:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/339628-Apple-iPad-and-related-items-(part-2)


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