# Tax and Tax Credit Fraud



## DexterTCN (Aug 9, 2018)

We are having a concerning amount of trouble with fraud...it appears that they (the conmen) have enough details to realistically impersonate HMRC employees.  They also send letters that look 100% real but have payment slips with different bank account numbers.

They have 0300 phone numbers, they know your reference numbers and they know your current bill.

Until this is sorted I would suggest refusing to pay if anyone calls or writes to your company (or self-employed self or tax credit overpayments) claiming to be HMRC and then call us *only* on the numbers I'm listing here to confirm and discuss.  Please keep these for reference.

PAYE: 0300 200 3859
SA: 0300 322 7823
VAT: 0300 200 3838
CT: 0300 322 7831
TC: 0300 322 7832  (tax credits)

Best wishes.


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> ... they know your reference numbers and they know your current bill.



How is that possible, without a data breach from HMRC?


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## Chilli.s (Aug 9, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> How is that possible, without a data breach from HMRC?



Isn't that some sort of crime now? Leaking confidential data.


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## Teaboy (Aug 9, 2018)

So the fraud will happen by people phoning the number given on the letter and making the payment over the phone or is it a dodgy website address given?


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## friedaweed (Aug 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> We are having a concerning amount of trouble with fraud...it appears that they (the conmen) have enough details to realistically impersonate HMRC employees.  They also send letters that look 100% real but have payment slips with different bank account numbers.
> 
> They have 0300 phone numbers, they know your reference numbers and they know your current bill.
> 
> ...


 Yeah you would sat that yer conman. You nearly got me there. i was just about to ring the VAT number


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## Supine (Aug 9, 2018)

Should those numbers be on here?


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## DexterTCN (Aug 9, 2018)

Supine said:


> Should those numbers be on here?


100% correct and for the public


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## ricbake (Aug 9, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> 100% correct and for the public


So are those the bad numbers or the ones people SHOULD ring?


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 9, 2018)

ricbake said:


> So are those the bad numbers or the ones people SHOULD ring?



Read the OP, they are the legit numbers.


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## DexterTCN (Aug 9, 2018)

The number in my post are copied directly from HMRC and are the only numbers to use if you want to discuss payments, payment delays, time to pays etc.


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## stuff_it (Aug 16, 2018)

Wouldn't frauding HMRC when you're on tax credits mean you'd have to in fact give them money?


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## Looby (Aug 16, 2018)

stuff_it said:


> Wouldn't frauding HMRC when you're on tax credits mean you'd have to in fact give them money?


If scammers are pretending to be HMRC then people with tax credit overpayments could be targeted.


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## DexterTCN (Aug 16, 2018)

Looby said:


> If scammers are pretending to be HMRC then people with tax credit overpayments could be targeted.


Not really.  It is possible of course and I did post the TC number to be fair but people with TC overpayments don't generally have the means to make large card pymts via the bank or over the phone so (these) criminals would be wasting resources targeting them.

TC claimants should always be wary just like everyone else but I was a bit hasty with that part and wouldn't want them to worry.

Just use the numbers I posted and it's all good.


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## kebabking (Aug 17, 2018)

My old boy has had a letter from the DWP about his state pension entitlement that just doesn't look right - it doesn't ask for money, infact it says they owe him money - but it doesn't contain the stock DWP phrases, it doesn't say when they'll pay him, it doesn't tell him he needs to do anything, it just smells wrong...


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## Schmetterling (Aug 17, 2018)

DexterTCN
I have had a letter which I have been shitting myself over. I had forgotten about this thread but have now had a good look at all letters.
The latest letter lists a different bank (Barclays), sort code, and account no to the one listed in previous letters (Santander). Is that normal?
It has a slightly different phone no., too.


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## alex_ (Aug 17, 2018)

Schmetterling said:


> DexterTCN
> I have had a letter which I have been shitting myself over. I had forgotten about this thread but have now had a good look at all letters.
> The latest letter lists a different bank (Barclays), sort code, and account no to the one listed in previous letters (Santander). Is that normal?
> It has a slightly different phone no., too.



Hmrc have their own sort code.

Alex


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## DexterTCN (Aug 17, 2018)

Schmetterling said:


> DexterTCN
> I have had a letter which I have been shitting myself over. I had forgotten about this thread but have now had a good look at all letters.
> The latest letter lists a different bank (Barclays), sort code, and account no to the one listed in previous letters (Santander). Is that normal?
> It has a slightly different phone no., too.


Unless it is for VAT the account number and sort codes should either be...

12001039 - 083210 or
12001020 - 083210

As I mentioned the current fake letters also have 0300 numbers. 

What's the phone number?  I'll check it on Monday.


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## Smangus (Aug 17, 2018)

go to the hmrc website for payment details etc  if in doubt. they also have a facility for reporting suspected frauds I will post details tomorrow.


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## DexterTCN (Aug 17, 2018)

gov.uk


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## Smangus (Aug 18, 2018)

Details of how to pay for various taxes 

Dealing with HMRC: Paying HMRC - GOV.UK

Report email fraud 

Avoid and report internet scams and phishing


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## Schmetterling (Aug 18, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Unless it is for VAT the account number and sort codes should either be...
> 
> 12001039 - 083210 or
> 12001020 - 083210
> ...



Well, I am paying off a debt by direct debit so account/sort code may be different. (I know, I know; I fucked up buuuut the situation was also made worse by an extremely bad cash flow).

Details on genuine letter
0300 200 3824
Santander, 25-03-49, 225 0349

Details on, hopefully (though it somehow makes sense), fake letter
Barclays
0300 123 1813
Barclays, 25-03-57, 63464695

Thank you for helping. I am not stupid but I do find the many letters and calculations one receives hard to understand.


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## Schmetterling (Aug 20, 2018)

Update: it was a genuine letter but an automatically triggered one, the sum of which was already included in the previous debt calculation.  I won’t hijack this thread any further with the details, suffice it to say that I am budgeting a higher sum than I will probably need to pay for the current tax year, just to be safe.

Thank you for your offer of help in checking the phone numbers, DexterTCN. 

Edited as I had tagged the wrong forum member.


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 20, 2018)

Schmetterling said:


> Thank you for your offer of help in checking the phone numbers, DexterTCN.
> 
> Edited as I had tagged the wrong forum member.



I was about to ask, did I?


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## Schmetterling (Aug 20, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I was about to ask, did I?



Just take the credit, anyway.


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 20, 2018)

Schmetterling said:


> Just take the credit, anyway.



The tax credit?


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## Schmetterling (Aug 20, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> The tax credit?



No, the credit for ‘helping’.


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 20, 2018)




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## StoneRoad (Sep 27, 2018)

I so wish that HMRC still had face to face offices.
The paye system for employers is a massive mess.

One provided official programme calculates you owe £"X" for the current month.
OK, go to BACS and send "X" (the correct amount goes from bank account)
Look at HMRC to see if "X" has been received, nothing shows for Z time.
Nope, an amount "Y" has been put against last month, not the current month.
Rinse and repeat.
So far this year, only the first month has had "X" in all locations, all the remainder have had various "Y" amounts shown as received.
This happened all through last year as well, and one month this year the "X" was credited against last year ...

Repeated phone calls - when not stuck in a queue - have not solved the situation.
Steadily loosing the will to continue ...


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## DexterTCN (Sep 27, 2018)

StoneRoad said:


> I so wish that HMRC still had face to face offices.
> The paye system for employers is a massive mess....


ETMP/RTI?

Yup.


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