# Smiley culture update



## AndyCam (Mar 16, 2011)

SMILEY CULTURE UPDATE:
VIA Merlin Emanuel (NEPHEW)
Ok, 
Family press conference, 
Tomorrow  17th March 11.30am
in Brixton 
Gresham Road, 
right next to Police Station across the road in Mosque meeting room. 
TV and radio will be there. 
Question is will you? 
Please come to support, not abort, through foolishness. 
We're gonna get these demons legally.


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## bmd (Mar 16, 2011)

What does that mean? Did the police stab him?


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## AndyCam (Mar 16, 2011)

No Idea but it stinks...let's hope the answers are true & not taking the public for fools again!


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## BlackArab (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks for posting that. Can you pop back and let us know what happened/keep us updated. Cheers


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## Bingo (Mar 16, 2011)

Surely some kind of cover-up...


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## editor (Mar 16, 2011)

Bingo said:


> Surely some kind of cover-up...


Err, I think the idea is to try and find out what happened _before_ declaring it to be a cover-up, no?


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 17, 2011)

on today's press conference, called by the family: http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/03/smiley-culture-press-conference/

(includes video of the whole thing)


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## stethoscope (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks for the report on what happened today Fozzie, reading now.


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## chazegee (Mar 17, 2011)

With Police as the only witnesses, it's going to be very difficult to get a fully accurate picture. 
Best shot is the independent Pathologist.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 17, 2011)

I should also flag up here that there is going to be *a public meeting in Brixton at 7PM on 24th of March.*

Venue TBC, because they need to find a bigger one.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2011)

chazegee said:


> With Police as the only witnesses, it's going to be very difficult to get a fully accurate picture.
> Best shot is the independent Pathologist.


 
Yep.


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## ericjarvis (Mar 18, 2011)

The important thing is to attempt to get across to the Met that regardless of precisely what happened in this incident, the simple fact is that they have previous form, and they need to be aware of that when investigating such incidents. Simply assuming that they can label somebody as a "wrong 'un" and then make little or no effort to make it clear that a proper and suitably open investigation has taken place simply won't wash. They've been trying it for years and that's the whole problem.

When the Met Police start showing the people of London that they hold their own officers to the standards they demand of the rest of us, and that they treat all suspicious incidents accordingly, then and only then can they start mending the divide between them and so many Londoners.

I don't hold out a lot of hope. There are some excellent police officers in the Met, but far too few who are prepared to challenge the culture of "us and them/with us or against us" that pervades most of the Met Police's approach to any suspicion of wrongdoing by its officers.

I make no assumptions about what happened. The point stands regardless of the specifics of this particular case. The Met HAS to show itself as capable of being self critical.


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## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

I was extremely suspicious when I first heard details of what happened to Smiley. Let hope his family get some answers.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 18, 2011)

Today's links: http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/03/smiley-culture-rip-day-4/ sorry to keep spamming the place up with links to my blog, but I'm a bit short of time!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2011)

No worries keep it coming.


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## BlackArab (Mar 19, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Today's links: http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/03/smiley-culture-rip-day-4/ sorry to keep spamming the place up with links to my blog, but I'm a bit short of time!



Deffo not spam, keep up the good work mate.


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## ernestolynch (Mar 19, 2011)

Is Warlingham Met or Surrey Police?


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## chazegee (Mar 19, 2011)

From Oracle. The Police BB's



> It's only given 'air-time' because it involves the police. If he had been stabbed by a gang of thugs it preobably wouldn't have made the small print on page 17 of the Sun.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 19, 2011)

ernestolynch said:


> Is Warlingham Met or Surrey Police?


 
It is Surrey, but it was a Met operation. I think they visited a few people that morning. One of the questions the IPCC is asking is if Surrey Police were properly informed.


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## BlackArab (Mar 19, 2011)

chazegee said:


> From Oracle. The Police BB's



Unfortunately true. IMHO.


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## DJ Squelch (Mar 19, 2011)

In all the times my house was raided by police I don't remember them allowing me to go make a cup of tea. Not really smart to allow someone access to a pot of boiling water when you're about to screw their life up.
Probably bad reporting rather than some sort of cover up.


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## DaveCinzano (Mar 21, 2011)

From: http://www.vevite.com/viewevent.php?id=4380



> *Justice for Smiley Culture Campaign Meeting*
> 
> Where 	Brixton Town Hall, Brixton Hill SW2 1RW
> 
> ...


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 21, 2011)

Updates here, including IPCC video on the investigation: 
http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/03/smiley-culture-rip-day-7/


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 24, 2011)

http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/03/smiley-culture-rip-day-10/

footage of tonight's meeting and other linky roundups

A march has been called for April 16th.


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## Mation (Mar 24, 2011)

Could you summarise what happened at the meeting?


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 25, 2011)

There is a summary here:

http://history-is-made-at-night.blogspot.com/2011/03/justice-for-smiley-public-meeting.html


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## Mation (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks!


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 25, 2011)

More coverage linked up from here:
http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/03/smiley-culture-rip-day-11/


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## PursuedByBears (Mar 25, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There is a summary here:
> 
> http://history-is-made-at-night.blogspot.com/2011/03/justice-for-smiley-public-meeting.html


 
Cheers for keeping us all updated fozzie bear.  Hopefully more will come to light soon...


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 31, 2011)

There's a delegation going to City Hall today. Also a copper has sworn under oath that Smiley stabbed himself:

http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/03/smiley-culture-rip-day-16/


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## shaman75 (Mar 31, 2011)

Just heard the meeting got interrupted by shouting from the public gallery.

Was on LBC news.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 31, 2011)

Cool. I think they are also discussing the policing of Saturday's march today? If anyone knows more about the meeting being interrupted that would be interesting.


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## shaman75 (Mar 31, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Cool. I think they are also discussing the policing of Saturday's march today? If anyone knows more about the meeting being interrupted that would be interesting.


 
there you go: http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...GZNVB2tVIno-s1HZA?docId=N0325941301569722797A

lbc had sound from the meeting too, which was stopped and the broadcast cut.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 31, 2011)

ES have their story too: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...orters-and-lee-jasper-break-up-met-meeting.do


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## salem (Mar 31, 2011)

Interesting that Merlin Emmanuel, nephew and official family spokesman said that "We don't want to ethnicise this issue" but Lee Jasper does just that anyway.


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## RaverDrew (Mar 31, 2011)

Lee Jasper always does tbf, he loves a bit of political point scoring. I appreciate that he puts in the effort and drive though, he obviously has the right contacts to raise the awareness of the campaign which is certainly a good thing. The family have to be careful though that smiley's death is not used as a platform for those with certain agendas. It could completely undermine getting to the truth of the matter.


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## shaman75 (Mar 31, 2011)

big piece on bbc london news just then.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2011)

What did they say?


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## shaman75 (Apr 1, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What did they say?


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-12921530

(video at the bottom)


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2011)

Cheers.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 1, 2011)

Links to coverage by the ES and Guardian here;

http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-rip-day-17/
Plus some stuff on the campaign being mentioned at the Nas and Damien Marley gig at Wembley last night.

Thanks for that BBC link also shaman75


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2011)

Cheers for the updates Fozzie, really appreciate it.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-rip-day-21/

The campaign seems to be linking up with other death in custody cases. There's a meeting in Birmingham on Friday.

Also an interview in Socialist Worker and some music bits.


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## treelover (Apr 6, 2011)

'The family have to be careful though that smiley's death is not used as a platform for those with certain agendas. It could completely undermine getting to the truth of the matter. '


That is what Jasper does, he sees himself as the sole spokesman for the community,


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## Louloubelle (Apr 6, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> The important thing is to attempt to get across to the Met that regardless of precisely what happened in this incident, the simple fact is that they have previous form, and they need to be aware of that when investigating such incidents. Simply assuming that they can label somebody as a "wrong 'un" and then make little or no effort to make it clear that a proper and suitably open investigation has taken place simply won't wash. They've been trying it for years and that's the whole problem.
> 
> When the Met Police start showing the people of London that they hold their own officers to the standards they demand of the rest of us, and that they treat all suspicious incidents accordingly, then and only then can they start mending the divide between them and so many Londoners.
> 
> ...


 

excellent post


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## Louloubelle (Apr 6, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'The family have to be careful though that smiley's death is not used as a platform for those with certain agendas. It could completely undermine getting to the truth of the matter. '
> 
> 
> That is what Jasper does, he sees himself as the sole spokesman for the community,



I think that people at the Friends and families campaign have an understanding of how certain careerist "spokespersons" (e.g. Lee Jasper) can try to ride on the coat tails of these kind of events and use them for their own agendas.  I cannot speak for any of them personally but I have friends who lost loved ones after assaults by police in highly suspicious circumstances that were never adequately investigated and the people I know are acutely aware of the tendency of certain campaigning groups and career spokespersons to try to use the deaths of their loved ones to their own advantage. 

Having said that I imagine it's a difficult line to tread between welcoming support from outsiders and also trying to keep the integrity of the campaign free from careerists.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 10, 2011)

Boris Johnson's comments: http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-rip-day-24/

Beginning of a backlash against the campaign? http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-rip-day-26/


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## ericjarvis (Apr 10, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Boris Johnson's comments: http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-rip-day-24/



I just hate it when Boris talks sense. It means I have to carefully analyse all my attitudes and ideas on the subject in order to work out whether I've got it all wrong or whether by some freak of chance Boris has actually managed to say something intelligent.



Fozzie Bear said:


> Beginning of a backlash against the campaign? http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-rip-day-26/


 
Colin Roach's death was the one that first made me notice that there was something very sick in the way the Met Police closed ranks whenever the possibility of serious misconduct by police officers happened. Wasn't one of the police officers in Stoke Newington nick at the time involved in the fatal arrest of Cynthia Jarrett some years later? ISTR that being the word around Tottenham at the time.


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## Crispy (Apr 10, 2011)

Hang on a sec. Theres a guy who some mates used to know who went by the name Brother Culture - this isn't the same person is it?


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## editor (Apr 10, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Hang on a sec. Theres a guy who some mates used to know who went by the name Brother Culture - this isn't the same person is it?


No. He's alive and well and playing the Albert soon.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 11, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Beginning of a backlash against the campaign? http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-rip-day-26/


 
It was bound to happen sooner or later but not sure it'll gain much traction just yet...


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## Crispy (Apr 11, 2011)

editor said:


> No. He's alive and well and playing the Albert soon.


 
Good good  Nasty moment there!


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## tommers (Apr 14, 2011)

So, anybody marching on Scotland Yard on Saturday?


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## dynamicbaddog (Apr 14, 2011)

tommers said:


> So, anybody marching on Scotland Yard on Saturday?



yeah I'll be there.

assembly point -  Southbank Club, 124 - 130 Wandsworth Road SW8 2DL 12 noon.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 14, 2011)

Me too!


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## Streathamite (Apr 15, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'The family have to be careful though that smiley's death is not used as a platform for those with certain agendas. It could completely undermine getting to the truth of the matter. '
> 
> 
> That is what Jasper does, he sees himself as the sole spokesman for the community,


Yes, lee really is Mr Agenda, which is why so many (me, for one) are wary of working with him. The emmanuels would be wise to be wary of him too.


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## dynamicbaddog (Apr 16, 2011)

that was a good turnout


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 16, 2011)

How many people would you say attended? Ch4 news says 600, organisers appear to be claiming 2500...


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## killer b (Apr 16, 2011)

the demo turnout formula would say 12-1500 in reality then.


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## dynamicbaddog (Apr 16, 2011)

killer b said:


> the demo turnout formula would say 12-1500 in reality then.


 
I think that could be right.  
 More than 600 anyway. It was really moving at the end when after the speeches they played Police Officer from the sound system and everyone was dancing and singing along.


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## MellySingsDoom (Apr 16, 2011)

Channel 4 report on the march today: http://www.channel4.com/news/police-failed-miserably-dead-reggae-star-smiley-culture


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## chazegee (Apr 16, 2011)

http://blog.thtc.co.uk/content/thtc-and-mau-mau-produce-official-smiley-culture-organic-t-shirt


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## Treacle Toes (Apr 16, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> I think that could be right.
> More than 600 anyway. It was really moving at the end when after the speeches they played Police Officer from the sound system and everyone was dancing and singing along.


 
For some reason (I didn't know about the march at this point) ,I woke up today and fantasised about being at a march where at some point this happened, it felt wonderful in my fantasy...I am glad it has happened.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 16, 2011)

Sky news report at least a 1000 people, some of the footage I shot that this maybe a little conservative...


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 17, 2011)

I would say about 2000. Possibly more.


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## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2011)

Fantastic. Well done all.


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## dynamicbaddog (Apr 17, 2011)

here's a report on the march that my mate did for his blog. He managed to get some photos yesturday.

http://jerrybarnett.blogspot.com/2011/04/justice-for-smiley-culture-march.html


http://www.demotix.com/news/660279/justice-smiley-culture-march-london


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## winjer (Apr 17, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How many people would you say attended? Ch4 news says 600, organisers appear to be claiming 2500...


Less than 1000. 2,500 would have filled Broadway - o/s the Yard - didn't come close.


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## audiotech (Apr 17, 2011)




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## dogDBC (Apr 17, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> Wasn't one of the police officers in Stoke Newington nick at the time involved in the fatal arrest of Cynthia Jarrett some years later? ISTR that being the word around Tottenham at the time.



Yes, he was.  100%.

Randall (Mick?)   

I was surprised at what a twerp he was when I ran into him


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## ericjarvis (Apr 17, 2011)

dogDBC said:


> Yes, he was.  100%.
> 
> Randall (Mick?)
> 
> I was surprised at what a twerp he was when I ran into him


 
What bugs me is that the real problem is down to a fairly small proportion of police officers who are repeat offenders, but who are backed up by the vast majority of their colleagues who seem to think that by denying that any policemen are "bad un's" they will protect their own reputation. In fact we just end up suspicious of all of them. Regardless of this that or the other initiative from on high that never seems to change. It's a change that has to be made and it's a change that is entirely in the hands of the police, nobody else can make that change for them.

Until we know that any wrongdoing by a police officer will be dealt with by other officers in the same way as the same thing done by a member of the public, then there will not be widespread trust in the police. No matter what they do in terms of PR.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 18, 2011)

I see the SWP were out in force with their attention grabbing placards...


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## porno thieving gypsy (Apr 18, 2011)

It was an amazing atmosphere


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## JHE (Apr 18, 2011)

When I first read about this death, he really odd thing about it, it seemed to me, was that (i) if people are going to kill themselves they don't stab themselves in the chest and (ii) if Mr Plod is going to be a thug, he doesn't stab people in the chest either.  Mr Plod may bash or kick, but he doesn't, it seems to me, plunge blades into chests.

I have just read the news article posted in the world politics forum about some young American who committed suicide in front of an audience by _stabbing himself in the chest_.  Clearly, it can be done and my guess is that Mr Plod is telling the truth.


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## porno thieving gypsy (Apr 18, 2011)

That person had been suicidal for months


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## ericjarvis (Apr 18, 2011)

JHE said:


> When I first read about this death, he really odd thing about it, it seemed to me, was that (i) if people are going to kill themselves they don't stab themselves in the chest and (ii) if Mr Plod is going to be a thug, he doesn't stab people in the chest either.  Mr Plod may bash or kick, but he doesn't, it seems to me, plunge blades into chests.
> 
> I have just read the news article posted in the world politics forum about some young American who committed suicide in front of an audience by _stabbing himself in the chest_.  Clearly, it can be done and my guess is that Mr Plod is telling the truth.


 
The point isn't whether he was killed or took his own life. The point is that he was in the care of the Met at the time, and they are treating the family as if they don't have any right to ask questions. It's about getting the police to understand why there are suspicions and concerns and to act accordingly.


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## JHE (Apr 18, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> The point isn't whether he was killed or took his own life. The point is that he was in the care of the Met at the time, and they are treating the family as if they don't have any right to ask questions. It's about getting the police to understand why there are suspicions and concerns and to act accordingly.



No, I'm sorry, I think it _is_ about who killed him.  Was it suicide or did Plod kill him?  That is the central question.

You are right, of course, that there are suspicions - suspicians that Plod killed him.

If Plod is not being very forthcoming at the moment, my guess is that that is because he has said what he wants to say for the moment (that SC stabbed himself in the chest) and will say more when he has conducted some internal investigation, interviewing all relevant people, and/or when the coroner asks questions (which Mr Plod is of course obliged to answer).


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 18, 2011)

JHE said:


> When I first read about this death, he really odd thing about it, it seemed to me, was that (i) if people are going to kill themselves they don't stab themselves in the chest and (ii) if Mr Plod is going to be a thug, he doesn't stab people in the chest either.  Mr Plod may bash or kick, but he doesn't, it seems to me, plunge blades into chests.
> 
> I have just read the news article posted in the world politics forum about some young American who committed suicide in front of an audience by _stabbing himself in the chest_.  Clearly, it can be done and my guess is that Mr Plod is telling the truth.



Yeah this suicide story is showing up on my Facebook feed too...


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## salem (Apr 19, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> The point isn't whether he was killed or took his own life. The point is that he was in the care of the Met at the time, and they are treating the family as if they don't have any right to ask questions. It's about getting the police to understand why there are suspicions and concerns and to act accordingly.


 
In what way are the Met treating the family as if they don't have the right to ask questions?

Edited to add - genuine question by the way, rather then trying to refute what you're saying!


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 28, 2011)

Belated impressions of the march, plus the campaign's demands, Asher Senator's tribute tune and more police-sourced bollocks in The Sun:

http://www.uncarved.org/blog/2011/04/smiley-culture-march-and-updates/


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## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2011)

Cheers fozzie, keep it up.


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## TopCat (May 1, 2011)

That Blog reports the death of Cherry Groce? Is this correct anyone?


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## butchersapron (May 1, 2011)

Yep. Friday just gone i think.


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## audiotech (May 15, 2011)

Deaths in custody.

333 deaths in police custody since 1998. Officers convicted - none.


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## TopCat (May 16, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yep. Friday just gone i think.


 
RIP Cherry.


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## stethoscope (May 22, 2011)

Reply to spammy post now removed.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2011)

That took up a good thirty seconds of my precious time, banning that spammer and deleting all his injunction posts. I hope he's _happy_


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## Streathamite (May 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That took up a good thirty seconds of my precious time, banning that spammer and deleting all his injunction posts. I hope he's _happy_


well, we appreciate you, HTH


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## stethoscope (Sep 2, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/02/smiley-culture-david-emmanual-reggae




			
				guardian said:
			
		

> Police officers who carried out the raid in which the reggae star Smiley Culture allegedly stabbed himself to death are unlikely to face criminal charges, disciplinary action or be officially questioned, the Guardian has learned.
> 
> The disclosure comes despite an admission by the Independent Police Complaints Commission that the operation at the singer's home in Warlingham, Surrey, on 15 March was "not satisfactory" and that the actions of at least one officer have been criticised.
> 
> ...


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## OneStrike (Sep 3, 2011)

I just came in to post that.  Its amazing that the IPCC doesnt have the powers to interview the officers present at such a death, the police can simply refuse unless made a suspect.  To refuse suggests some sort of guilt or a complete disregard for the deceaseds family imo.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2011)

And the great and the good wonder why the public rarely seem mollified by the prospect of an IPCC investigation.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> I just came in to post that. Its amazing that the IPCC doesnt have the powers to interview the officers present at such a death, the police can simply refuse unless made a suspect. To refuse suggests some sort of guilt or a complete disregard for the deceaseds family imo.


it's not amazing at all. it's only to be expected and shows why the ipcc is a worthy successor to the pca.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2011)

> As far as our family are concerned, Smiley was executed.



His nephew said the above on the FB page...feel like this one is not going away.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 4, 2011)

Blimey. Nothing in the press at all though. Why is that?


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## lighterthief (Sep 4, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Blimey. Nothing in the press at all though. Why is that?


Um, it's on the BBC website.


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## 8115 (Sep 4, 2011)

I didn't realise that apparently he'd stabbed himself and *then* been put in handcuffs - I read that in the Guardian yesterday.  That looks odd.


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## stethoscope (Sep 4, 2011)

I think it smells a whole lot more than just 'odd', but I'm hardly surprised by the IPCC.


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## Dan U (Sep 5, 2011)

if i was a copper and someone had just stabbed themselves in the heart and was collapsed on the floor, bleeding profusely, i would definitely think 'i know, i'll handcuff this person, that will help'

then refuse to speak to the iPCC about it

fucking stinks.


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## The Old Bird (Sep 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> His nephew said the above on the FB page...feel like this one is not going away.


I hope it doesn't. There have beenothers this year and one just two weeks after Smiley's death.

What I think? I think there was a struggle and a cop accidentally stabbed him.
http://duchessofhackney.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/smiley-culture-police-say-they-didnt-kill-him/


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## Fozzie Bear (Nov 29, 2011)

Amazingly, nobody was to blame:

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/p...intodeathofdavidemmanuelakasmileyculture.aspx


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## TopCat (Nov 29, 2011)

Quelle surprise..


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## ska invita (Nov 29, 2011)

8115 said:


> I didn't realise that apparently he'd stabbed himself and *then* been put in handcuffs - I read that in the Guardian yesterday. That looks odd.


hadnt heard that before - thats prize bullshit.

From Fozzies link:


> The Coroner has already stated the inquest in to Mr Emmanuel's death will be held with a jury


~
Hopefully a jury will be able to be critical on this... though sometimes jurys aren't given a remit to ask the key question, such as was he handcuffed and then stabbed. Anyone know what happens next?


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## ddraig (Nov 29, 2011)

fucking stinks 
hope jury trial sorts it out


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## sojourner (Nov 29, 2011)

Unfuckingreal that about the coppers being 'witnesses' and not one of them a possible suspect, when you have all of those unanswered questions.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 29, 2011)

ddraig said:


> fucking stinks
> hope jury trial sorts it out



Not (unfortunately) a jury trial, a jury inquest.


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## Teaboy (Nov 29, 2011)

I suspect after the Tomlinson case we will see more and more deaths in police custody having a jury at the coroners.  It just underlines how little faith there is (even within the justice system) in the Police investigating itself or the 'independence' of the IPCC.


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## MellySingsDoom (Nov 29, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Amazingly, nobody was to blame:
> 
> http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/Pages/p...intodeathofdavidemmanuelakasmileyculture.aspx



Thanks Fozzie - this made me go "WTF!" several times:



> Consideration was also given to whether the actions of individual officers met the threshold for misconduct under the Police (Conduct) Regulations 2008. *The investigation has found there were no individual failings which, for the purposes of the Regulations, amounted to misconduct.*


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 29, 2011)

This will go down well...


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## twentythreedom (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm sure it's standard procedure to cuff anyone immediately when raided, let alone let them go make tea unaccompanied. When I got raided, the second they were through the door they immediately cuffed me and sat me down with a copper watching my every move.

The whole thing stinks. Fuck the lot of 'em. Cunts.


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## Flanflinger (Nov 29, 2011)

The Old Bird said:


> I hope it doesn't. There have beenothers this year and one just two weeks after Smiley's death.
> 
> What I think? I think there was a struggle and a cop accidentally stabbed him.
> http://duchessofhackney.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/smiley-culture-police-say-they-didnt-kill-him/



I see you've been making a pratt of yourself on Digital Spy this afternoon.


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## ska invita (Nov 29, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> I'm sure it's standard procedure to cuff anyone immediately when raided, let alone let them go make tea unaccompanied. When I got raided, the second they were through the door they immediately cuffed me and sat me down with a copper watching my every move.
> 
> The whole thing stinks. Fuck the lot of 'em. Cunts.


blatantly


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

<bump> Any updates? Not quite abreast, Is there still at least some "I" PCC stuff to be dreamed up?


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## Fozzie Bear (Feb 6, 2012)

I think there's an ongoing case being built and possibly a private prosecution in the offing?

There was a bit of noise in the media about the cocaine angle at the back end of January:
http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/..._to_Smiley_Culture_drugs_racket_found_guilty/

But I don't know if there is an actual connection between these people and Smiley, I've not had a chance to look into it.


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## Fozzie Bear (Nov 9, 2012)

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/smiley-culture-no-drug-dealer-says-singers-nephew



> A court spokesperson told _The Voice _the judge ended the case and released the remaining three defendants when “the prosecution offered no evidence”.


 
Hmmph.


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## ska invita (Nov 15, 2012)

> Campaign for Justice for Smiley Culture
> Just got word that the officers who falsely implicated Smiley in a drugs charge have retired (KMT).... You can run but you can't hide. The Emanuel family are pleased to announce that we are preparing to sue the Met Police and certain tabloids for misinformation and slander. M.E


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 12, 2013)

The inquest begins today:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-heart-during-a-raid-on-his-home-8655008.html


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## el-ahrairah (Jun 12, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> The inquest begins today:
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-heart-during-a-raid-on-his-home-8655008.html


 
i bet we'll discover that no-one was to blame and that nothing could have prevented this happening.


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## brogdale (Jun 12, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> i bet we'll discover that no-one was to blame and that nothing could have prevented this happening.


 
I'm sure you're right and the OB's version of events will be believed...but really?


> Surrey Coroner Richard Travers told an inquest jury: "You will hear from Witness 2 that, when they were coming to the end of the search... Mr Emmanuel very suddenly and without warning stood up and Witness 2 realised for the first time that he, Mr Emmanuel, had a large kitchen knife in his hand.
> "The officer says that he shouted out 'knife' so as to warn his colleagues, at which point, Mr Emmanuel, he says, held out his arm and screamed at Witness 2 'Do you f****** want some of this?' Or 'What about this?'
> "Witness 2 will tell you that Mr Emmanuel's face and body language had completely changed, he became angry and was screaming.
> "He will tell you that he, Mr Emmanuel, then held the knife with both hands and plunged it into his own chest."


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## ddraig (Jun 12, 2013)

proper bastards


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## CharlieChaplin (Jun 13, 2013)

The police never get found guilty when stuff like this happens.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 13, 2013)

Hmmmmm



> Dr Nathaniel Cary, who carried out the second post-mortem examination, said: "My final conclusion is that, whilst it is clearly possible that the fatal stab wound was, as described, a self-inflicted injury, on pathological grounds alone there is nothing to determine that this was in fact the case, although it is fair to say that the site chosen is one of the sites that may be used in self-infliction."


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/12/smiley-culture-trial-stabbed-himself


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## ddraig (Jun 13, 2013)

dodge
sorry to be thick but what do they mean by pathological grounds?


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 13, 2013)

ddraig said:


> dodge
> sorry to be thick but what do they mean by pathological grounds?


 
forensics/scientific


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## ddraig (Jun 13, 2013)

thanks


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## peterkro (Jun 13, 2013)

^^ It's the study of disease.A stab wound to the heart is probably a stretch of the definition.


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## likesfish (Jun 13, 2013)

i doubt the police stabbed him seems unlikey shot by accident beaten kicked to death likely.
  They still fucked up smiley should have been cuffed not allowed near sharo stabby things.
   Probably thought they had it all under control


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## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2013)

on the balance of things that are likely I'd take police stabbing him over him stabbing his ownself.

how else could it happen? by magic flying knives?


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## ska invita (Jun 13, 2013)

What is the jury being asked exactly?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> on the balance of things that are likely I'd take police stabbing him over him stabbing his ownself.
> 
> how else could it happen? by magic flying knives?


 

It depends on how out of it he was. But yeah still not believing the police version of this.


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## likesfish (Jun 14, 2013)

i could see him getting stabbed in a struggle but the idea that a copper would just stab him out of the blue doesnt ring true either.
 Cops kill the mad and the drunk when restraint crosses the line or fucking up with guns not stabbing people.
   But nobody is going to belive somebody just stabbed themselves its a bit of a wtf moment.


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## 8115 (Jun 14, 2013)

ska invita said:


> What is the jury being asked exactly?


 
Cause of death I would think, same as any other inquest.

From wiki



> Since 1927, coroner's juries have rarely been used in England. Under the Coroners Act, 1988, a jury is only required to be convened in cases where the death occurred in prison, police custody, or in circumstances which may affect public health or safety. The coroner can actually choose to convene a jury in any investigation, but in practice this is rare. The qualifications to sit on a coroner's jury are the same as those to sit on a jury in Crown Court, the High Court, and the county courts


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 17, 2013)

> The court heard how Emmanuel’s demeanour changed and he was screaming and shouting, prompting witness one to try and restrain him by reaching for his left arm and lowering him to the floor – *at which point the police officer said he first noticed a “large” knife sticking out of his chest.*
> Worried the reggae artist would cause further injury to himself, or injure another police officer, witness one said he tried to keep Emmanuel’s hands away from the knife.
> Home Office pathologist Robert Chapman said it was “impossible to say” who inflicted the chest wound because while it was “consistent with self-infliction” the location and the angle of the wound “do not exclude actions by someone else”.


 
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/inquest-hears-‘smiley-culture-stabbed-himself’



The article also points out that Emmanuel had been smoking weed, but presumably not as much as the copper who didn't notice he had a huge fucking knife sticking out of his chest until it was too late.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 17, 2013)

peterkro said:


> ^^ It's the study of disease.A stab wound to the heart is probably a stretch of the definition.


 
In context 'pathological' means concerned with the physical cause of death. He's just saying that, taken in isolation, the nature of the stab wound neither confirms nor rules out the possibility of the wound being self-inflicted.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 29, 2013)

The inquest jury retired yesterday so verdict soon I guess. 

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/smiley-culture-trial-jury-deliberate-verdict


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## likesfish (Jul 1, 2013)

Once had someone drag an unconcious body past hostel reception desk of sombedy who had od'd in his room.
  Took moments for my brain to compute what I'd just seen.
 i can see that happening if what the police say actually happened because you dont expect somebody to stab themselves in the chest.


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## plurker (Jul 2, 2013)

Majority verdict.

_Returning the verdict, the jury foreman said: "David Victor Emmanuel took his own life. "Although the tragic events... were unforeseeable, giving one officer the responsibility of supervising Mr Emmanuel and, at the same time the premises search book, was a contributory factor in his death."_

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23146121


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 2, 2013)

So, no ticking off for the police then? No further action?

I reckon the police fucked up and Smiley got stabbed in the struggle. Majority verdict isn't unanimous is it - serious element of doubt.


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## ska invita (Jul 2, 2013)

majority is 10/2 i think? less than 10 doesnt count as a verdict - thats what happened when i was on jury service


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## Sirena (Jul 2, 2013)

I attach no credence to this story but I have heard it from two people: one from London and one from Wolverhampton, and both what you might call deeply knowledgeable of what goes on in the local black communities. It was that Smiley Culture had a thing going with some corrupt police where he was given confiscated cocaine to sell back onto the streets and that he would have probably told the whole story if he had been arrested.

He was never an innocent. As far back as '92, he was known for carrying guns and everyone knew, unofficially, of his involvement in the coke business.

It just offers another possibility to how/why he died.


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## ska invita (Jul 2, 2013)

though if he was going to get killed by corrupt police why do it at a raid?


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## Sirena (Jul 2, 2013)

ska invita said:


> though if he was going to get killed by corrupt police why do it at a raid?


 
I'm not sure of the finer points but, it was said, the police who were doing the raid were not his suppliers. How the final scene worked out, I don't know. The story is full of holes, maybe, but it seems to be the word on the street from people who usually know these things.


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## ska invita (Jul 2, 2013)

i can see that - bent copper has a last minute chance to get off the hook....


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## Fozzie Bear (Jul 3, 2013)

BBC Tribute: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23128810


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## barney_pig (Jul 4, 2013)

.


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## where to (Jul 4, 2013)

ska invita said:
			
		

> i can see that - bent copper has a last minute chance to get off the hook....



Easier to smear him as incredible witness etc etc, surely ?


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 15, 2014)

Just read an article in _Private Eye_ about Smiley Culture being hired by The European Azerbaijan Society (TEAS) to record a promotional song... TBH this completely went by me at the time, but I notice that he mentions it in an interview with _The Guardian_ six months before his death:



> ...At school I thought diamonds came from vaults: now I've got gold and diamond mine concessions in Ghana, Uganda, Liberia, Kenya and the Congo, and *I'm promoting a record for the Azerbaijan government*.



TEAS is:



> Ostensibly an independent trade body...[which] regularly takes MPs, MEPs and government officials on trips to the former Soviet state, where they are put up in luxury hotels.
> 
> On previous trips, members of the Council of Europe visiting the capital, Baku, are among those to have been treated royally. According to one insider: "These are real vacations and there are many expensive gifts. Gifts are mostly expensive silk carpets, gold and silver items, drinks, caviar and money. In Baku, a common gift is 2kg of caviar."
> 
> ...



Etc, etc.
Bizarre.


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## GarveyLives (Mar 15, 2017)

*Lest We Forget*​


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