# Unison or RCN?



## jigotai (Apr 9, 2007)

What are peoples experiences of the RCN (Royal College of Nursing) and UNISON? 

I'm a learning disabilities nurse coming back into work after a year out. I'm initially looking to work on agencies, but hopefully will move on to a more permanent post in a few months, probably in a private or charitable setting. I've not currently got membership of any union, and I'd like the back-up, and the insurance.

So any advice and comments are more than welcome...

Is the RCN as bad as I hear? (for actually dealing with disputes)

Are there any other options than these two?

Cheers, 
Jigotai


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## Mr Smin (Apr 10, 2007)

Mrs Smin is in RCN and they don't seem to have any presence (stewards / reps / whatever) in her department, which means she ends up asking me about contracts and stuff.
I'm in Unison and my workplace has plenty of stewards which means I can speak to someone familiar at short notice any time I have any issue at work.
You can in principle join any union that will have you, but joining one that has some presence where you work can be a big help.
You can also get insurance by other routes.


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## Chillinmink (Apr 10, 2007)

i work for the rcn and can confirm it is an absolute mess. not having any experience of unison i couldnt say wether they are as bad.


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## moonsi til (Apr 11, 2007)

Im in the RCN which has a high profile where I work (as does UNISON). I chose the RCN for the sole reason that IF something ever did happen my dispute would be handled by a registered nurse. This seemed important to me when I joined. I benefit hugely from the educational output of the RCN and I had to call upon them a few years back when a senior nurse bullied me at work and found their support helpful and understanding especially of the petty dynamics that exist within nursing. I have never compared the 2 though and the RCN I feel is expensive at about £15 per month.


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## jigotai (Apr 11, 2007)

Thanks for all the feedback. I've emailed both unions with a few fuckwit questions that I was told in no uncertain terms not to post up here, for fear of flaming But as they haven't replied I'll ask them anyway...

There are no prices on the UNISON site. Anyone a nursing member of them? How much does it cost, and do they give you indemnity insurance?

What are the other options for professional indemnity insurance?

£15 a month for the RCN seems a lot to me as well. The missus is a member of the National union of Journalists, and they have insurance, for a couple of quid a month less. Having been looking into this for a few days, it seems that the RCN have quite a soft, fuddy-duddyD ) rep, not really advocating for their members. But as moonsi til says, the professional development stuff may help.

Not decided yet!


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## FiFi (Apr 11, 2007)

I believe Unison use a sliding scale of fees, this means you are charged more if you earn more. 

However there is also something about political fees, so it would depend on how you feel about your money going to the Labour Party!


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## FiFi (Apr 11, 2007)

Also, both RCN and Unison do provide indemnity insurance, but at differing levels. Depending on your area of practice this may be relevent.


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## jigotai (Apr 11, 2007)

A reply to an email I sent to the RCN yesterday...



> Thank you for your email enquiry.
> 
> There is information on this on the RCN website at _insert link to page_
> 
> ...



Well, if this is an example of their member service, I'll be signing up tomorrow


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## jigotai (Apr 11, 2007)

FiFi said:
			
		

> Also, both RCN and Unison do provide indemnity insurance, but at differing levels. Depending on your area of practice this may be relevent.



Yeah, it is. I'll need to get hold of my local UNISON guys and ask them a little more. Trouble is I don't have a phone at the moment. 

I don't suppose there will be any problem wandering into the nearest hospital and asking to speak to the UNISON rep?

Thanks, 

Jigotai


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## FiFi (Apr 11, 2007)

Wait til you need to do something complicated, like change your address!  

They are about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

(Apologies to the poster who works for them  )


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## FiFi (Apr 11, 2007)

jigotai said:
			
		

> Yeah, it is. I'll need to get hold of my local UNISON guys and ask them a little more. Trouble is I don't have a phone at the moment.
> 
> I don't suppose there will be any problem wandering into the nearest hospital and asking to speak to the UNISON rep?
> 
> ...



If you tell them you're interested in joining I'm sure they'll be happy to help, or at least point you in the right direction to find the information.

Good Luck.


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## Guineveretoo (Apr 11, 2007)

I know lots about both UNISON and RCN, and will come back and try and answer this question later on this evening or tomorrow - currently at my parents' house, on an ancient old computer, and about to set off to drive home anyway 

But, if you would like to PM me with any specific questions you may have, I promise not to flame you, but to answer you as honestly and fully as I am able. In case you don't know, I am a national official for a trade union, which is not UNISON, but I used to be a regional official for UNISON, and was very active in Nalgo before that, too. So I know quite a lot about both unions


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## Appassionata (Apr 11, 2007)

jigotai said:
			
		

> A reply to an email I sent to the RCN yesterday...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if this is an example of their member service, I'll be signing up tomorrow



Count yourself one of the lucky ones! The last time I emailed them, they took 10 days to reply!


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## butterfly child (Apr 11, 2007)

Rightly or wrongly, I've always felt RCN think themselves better than UNISON because all their members are NURSES and not other lowly professions!

My mum used to do a lot of work for Unison, I'd rather have her on my side in a battle


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## Mr Smin (Apr 11, 2007)

Dunno who told you those questions would get flames? Possibly if you ask them in the politics section but not in the work one!
Just for the record, if you join Unison you can opt out of giving money to New Labour (thank fuck).
Consider having a chat with unison and rcn reps on your first few agency/bank placements.


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## Guineveretoo (Apr 11, 2007)

UNISON actually have two political funds - one of which is affiliated to the Labour party, so gives money to them, and allows for a vote etc., and the other of which is not affiliated, and is merely used for campaigning. This is because Nalgo always refused to affiliate to the Labour Party, but needed to have a political fund in order to be able to run campaigns which would otherwise be deemed to be political. Quite a few of these campaigns were, in fact, anti Labour, since Labour were doing some pretty shit things in local authorities, even when they were in opposition.

Anyway, RCN is not really a trade union, in that it's not affiliated to the TUC, and its focus is on professional issues, rather than employment matters. They don't traditionally do much campaigning at all, although they have been getting a bit arsey recently, and they have no collective voice or methodology at all. 

I am told that they are very good at providing professional advice and support, and I know lots of nurses who are members of the RCN in order to get that advice and support, but who are also members of UNISON in order to get employment advice and a collective voice in negotiations and campaigns locally and nationally. 

Personally, if I have an employment dispute, I would want to be represented by someone who was trained in employment law, and who had a knowledge of the NHS and its way of working. I don't think it needs to be a nurse, though  

Does that help?


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## hotvans (Apr 12, 2007)

I am a member of UNISON and have found them to be totally shite. The local rep was ignoring my pleas for help, so I went directly to the UNISON main office who refused to help me instead they said in order not to hurt his feelings they would chase him on my behalf. I never heard anything else from them or him. When I asked if I could make a complaint they sent me a form along with a load of guff about how I should call them to resolve the matter peacefully etc.

Frankly rubbish, once my contract here is sorted I'm leaving them.


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## Guineveretoo (Apr 12, 2007)

hotvans said:
			
		

> I am a member of UNISON and have found them to be totally shite. The local rep was ignoring my pleas for help, so I went directly to the UNISON main office who refused to help me instead they said in order not to hurt his feelings they would chase him on my behalf. I never heard anything else from them or him. When I asked if I could make a complaint they sent me a form along with a load of guff about how I should call them to resolve the matter peacefully etc.
> 
> Frankly rubbish, once my contract here is sorted I'm leaving them.



All unions are only as good as their local membership. If your rep is no good, is there anything you can do to mobilise some opposition, and get a new rep? I find it difficult to believe that the office were worried about hurting the reps feelings. They were more likely simply stuck in the position of not being able to do anything other than chase up the local rep. UNISON has 1.3 million members (allegedly). It doesn't have an individual person to represent each of these, but relies on local reps for groups of members who are then trained and supported by full time officials. 

But, because the reps are volunteers, it can be difficult to complain and to get your complaints taken seriously. You should try again with the UNISON office. Who did you contact? They have a series of regional offices which support branches. If yo go to their main site - www.unison.org.uk - you should be able to track down your regional contact, and email them asking for their intervention. Hopefully, if they find out they have an inactive rep in your branch, they will either be able to find someone else from the same branch to help, or be able to work with the branch to find a replacement. Or both


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## Rebelda (Sep 26, 2017)

Ten year bump! Same question


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## Red Cat (Sep 26, 2017)

Blagsta is a member of Unison, was RCN for a while, I can't recall why he left - probably the reasons Guineveretoo gives in post 16. He was in the RCN when he was a student nurse though. 

I can ask him about it.


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## Guineveretoo (Sep 27, 2017)

Where does it indicate the number of a post? 

I'm not seeing that on my iPhone. 

So I don't know which post is being referred to, and this isn't making sense.


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## Plumdaff (Sep 27, 2017)

I was a Unison nursing student rep!  Although none of the health unions are exactly going to set the world alight in terms of radicalism and workplace organisation, at least Unison (or Unite, or GMB, which are recognised in many workplaces) represent all health workers not just one of the professions. Both Unite and Unison have got much better at catering to health staff recently, and all will offer you professional indemnity insurance, which you need. Plus what Guineveretoo said.

My advice would be to go with the union, not RCN, that is best represented and organised in the organisation where you work. That's why I'm currently in Unite.


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## Rebelda (Sep 27, 2017)

Red Cat said:


> Blagsta is a member of Unison, was RCN for a while, I can't recall why he left - probably the reasons Guineveretoo gives in post 16. He was in the RCN when he was a student nurse though.
> 
> I can ask him about it.


Thank you.



Guineveretoo said:


> Where does it indicate the number of a post?
> 
> I'm not seeing that on my iPhone.
> 
> So I don't know which post is being referred to, and this isn't making sense.


They only show when you're on a computer, but as it's only 16 you can count the posts. I think (I did count last night) it's your post that begins 'UNISON actually have two political funds' 



Plumdaff said:


> I was a Unison nursing student rep!  Although none of the health unions are exactly going to set the world alight in terms of radicalism and workplace organisation, at least Unison (or Unite, or GMB, which are recognised in many workplaces) represent all health workers not just one of the professions. Both Unite and Unison have got much better at catering to health staff recently, and all will offer you professional indemnity insurance, which you need. Plus what Guineveretoo said.
> 
> My advice would be to go with the union, not RCN, that is best represented and organised in the organisation where you work. That's why I'm currently in Unite.


Good advice, ta, although it's a bit different for me currently being a student. I won't always be in a workplace and when I am it won't be for long.

Eta: I read that the RCN have a lot of useful resources for students. Presumably Unison/UNITE etc don't offer similar?


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## Plumdaff (Sep 27, 2017)

Rebelda said:


> Good advice, ta, although it's a bit different for me currently being a student. I won't always be in a workplace and when I am it won't be for long.



Sorry, I should have been clearer. If you are likely to mostly have placements within one Trust, go for the union that is best organised and represented in that Trust


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## Guineveretoo (Sep 27, 2017)

RCN has changed in the 10 years since this thread was started 

For one, they joined the TUC, which was a big thing for them to do. it changes the sort of union they are, and the role that they have at all levels. 

Previously, they were seen as more of a professional association, with no political strength or even interest, and lots of people joined both the RCN, because they wanted help and advice on professional matters relating to being a nurse, and to Unison because they wanted to be a member of a trade union who would represent them industrially and politically. 

RCN still don't have a political fund, and I am not aware of any intention to set one up, so there are no party politics involved, but they are changing the way they work, and who they are, by joining the TUC. 

The RCM have also joined the TUC, so now the health unions section is pretty much all of the unions in the NHS other than the BMA. 

This gives the RCN some added muscle, collectively.


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## Rebelda (Sep 27, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> Sorry, I should have been clearer. If you are likely to mostly have placements within one Trust, go for the union that is best organised and represented in that Trust


Oh gotcha. Good point!


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## Rebelda (Sep 27, 2017)

Thanks Guineveretoo, I suspected things had moved on a bit


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## Red Cat (Oct 4, 2017)

Forgot to get back to you. Blagsta said he was a member of the RCN and Unison as a student partly because their student deals were good. He said RCN do trade magazines (not sure of that's the right term) so he got a mental health nursing mag monthly (?) which he thought was quite useful as a student to keep up to date with nursing news. He left the RCN after he qualified because they didn't take industrial action around the pay freeze and unison did; he's a unison rep.


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## Rebelda (Oct 6, 2017)

Thanks everyone. Have joined the RCN for now because they have a huge library of resources not far from me. Will consider other unions as and when my placements come up


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