# Another Camberwell pub in trouble - Hoopers real ale pub in Camberwell



## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

Hoopers real ale pub in Camberwell is close to giving up completely, it would seem. They have announced that they are "taking a break" until mid November, and will then open only on Friday and Saturday evenings. 

I fear this is the end of what was trying to be a community pub. 

It was set up a few years ago by a real ale fan who sank his life savings into a run down pub but which never quite worked for him....


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 25, 2012)

That's a shame, I really liked it. It was never very busy though so I'm not surprised. It's just a bit too tucked out of the way really.


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## editor (Oct 25, 2012)

Ah, shit, That's bad news.


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## Crispy (Oct 25, 2012)

I lived in Camberwell for 2 years and never even heard of it


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## editor (Oct 25, 2012)

Sounds great too: 


> Hoopers is a beautiful, traditional Victorian pub set where Camberwell (SE5) meets East Dulwich (SE22) and Peckham (SE15). We offer a relaxed friendly atmosphere where both family and friends can meet  and choose from our extensive beer and wine selections. We also offer overnight accommodation with or without continental breakfast.
> 
> We are known throughout the area for our ever changing range of micro-brewed real ales, and as well as being Cask Marque accredited are included in CAMRA's Good Beer Guide for 2012 and have been rated as one of London's top 25 pubs for this year. We also have a bottled beer list of over 50 mainly Belgian and German brands embracing most styles.
> 
> ...


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## RubyToogood (Oct 25, 2012)

I did a gig there once, great place. Never went back mind as it's not anywhere I'd normally go and yes, it is really a bit tucked away.


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## Crispy (Oct 25, 2012)

Oh, that's Dulwich, not Camberwell!


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Oh, that's Dulwich, not Camberwell!


It's Camberwell 

The owner likes to claim that it is East Dulwich, but it is actually Camberwell!

We had an urban meet there once and did the quiz, I seem to remember.  I don't remember how well we did, so I suspect we didn't win 

It really is tucked away, so gets no casual traffic. Jamie, the owner, tried really hard to get it going, including the quiz night, free comedy nights, some of which were good, showing sports matches etc. etc.  But it was just too tucked away, and he could never keep staff, so wasn't able to do food, and, for a while, the beer actually kept going off because he didn't have enough trade, so we drank bottled beer!

His original plan was to set up a micro brewery, and he brought some chap over from Canada to manage the pub and set up the brewery, but that collapsed at an early stage. 

Eventually, he built flats above it, which are rented, so I guess that is how he is making some money, although he can't be making much, because the building was all a bit of a disaster, one way or another.

Then he fell out with the neighbours because he introduced live music and wouldn't soundproof the pub, or find a way to get the smokers to go somewhere other than right underneath the windows of people trying to sleep etc. etc. The neighbours launched a licence challenge and won, so that he had to make significant changes to how he ran the pub.

Whatever, it is a shame!


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## golightly (Oct 25, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> The owner likes to claim that it is East Dulwich, but it is actually Camberwell!
> 
> We had an urban meet there once and did the quiz, I seem to remember. I don't remember how well we did, so I suspect we didn't win


 
I Remember that night.  Every now and again I think about paying another visit, but never get around to it.  Tbf, with Stormbird and hermits cave just round the corner from us there hasn't been huge motivation to wander up to Hoopers.  It is a shame but it would only have worked as a community pub so pissing off the neighbours wasn't a wise move.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

I don't think the owners did their homework properly before they bought it, actually, because, as you say, there are already several real ale pubs round there, and it is actually quite difficult to get to Hoopers unless you live nearby.

It was really run down beforehand, and was run by a string of people who didn't really seem to know or care too much about it. I was once served orange juice in a dirty glass by a woman in her pyjamas on a Sunday lunch time! 

Jamie got it cheap and, initially, he consulted the local community - everyone got letters inviting them for a free drink before they had even done the work on it, so we went along and they seemed really keen, but then they ignored everyone and just pushed the real ale/micro brewery/expensive chef idea straight away, so that he ran into difficulties very quickly, when the real ale was going off, no-one was buying the expensive food, and the specialist brewer and his family got disillusioned and left.

Jamie, bless him, has been feeling the strain for a while, and has been taking it out on his customers rather too much, which has not encouraged the neighbours' loyalty, either!


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## not-bono-ever (Oct 25, 2012)

fuckin shame - its has the best selction of bottled beers in the hood - it utterly shits on the nasty Lordship lane outlets.If I have mates up, this is where we invariably start the night. Its a bit tucked away and thats probably its downfall - though about 10 mins walk from the station or the " up and coming" Bell end road area. Didnt Reginald Hunter do a warm up one off gig there a few months back ?


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

It might be that it can still be saved - if anyone has any ideas, maybe they could feed them in, somehow? It's clear that Jamie doesn't want to close it, but I don't see how it can possibly survive if it is only open at weekend evenings, so I really think something more radical needs to be done.


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## editor (Oct 25, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> It might be that it can still be saved - if anyone has any ideas, maybe they could feed them in, somehow? It's clear that Jamie doesn't want to close it, but I don't see how it can possibly survive if it is only open at weekend evenings, so I really think something more radical needs to be done.


Advertising their presence more and getting more active on social networks might help and perhaps inviting down local bloggers/journos to review it.

It seems that most people here have never heard of the place.


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## golightly (Oct 25, 2012)

Also, Jamie will probably have to suck it up and fix things with the local community.  They are likely to be the most regular users of the pub after all.


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## editor (Oct 25, 2012)

It might be an idea if he posted here, or at least read the thread. I'll change the thread title so it gets Google'd.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Advertising their presence more and getting more active on social networks might help and perhaps inviting down local bloggers/journos to review it.
> 
> It seems that most people here have never heard of the place.


He does have a facebook presence, https://www.facebook.com/hoopers.bar.7?fref=ts and used to email me regularly about events. 

I did try and get people on here interested when it re-opened, including setting up meets, because I was really keen for a back street pub to be saved.

Jamie doesn't actually live in London - his intention always was to put in a manager - so maybe that is his first problem!


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

editor said:


> It might be an idea if he posted here, or at least read the thread. I'll change the thread title so it gets Google'd.


I will forward it to the email address he uses to tell me about events.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

golightly said:


> Also, Jamie will probably have to suck it up and fix things with the local community. They are likely to be the most regular users of the pub after all.


Oh, I think he has done that...  I am not aware of any fallings out recently.


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## editor (Oct 25, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> He does have a facebook presence, https://www.facebook.com/hoopers.bar.7?fref=ts and used to email me regularly about events.!


That's not really the most effective way to use Facebook to promote a business!


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## golightly (Oct 25, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> Oh, I think he has done that... I am not aware of any fallings out recently.


 
That's good.  It seems that pubs need to find a niche to survive.  A music pub would be a great thing for Camberwell, but Hoopers is clearly not in the right location for that.  It serves quite a large residential area without any competition nearby, so to my mind it would make sense to find out what the pub could do to enhance the lives of people in the area.  For example, the local people may need a meeting space or maybe they need to have somewhere that they can come with their kids.  It might take Jamie away from his original dream, but it's going to have to be what the punters want otherwise the won't come, obviously.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

golightly said:


> That's good. It seems that pubs need to find a niche to survive. A music pub would be a great thing for Camberwell, but Hoopers is clearly not in the right location for that. It serves quite a large residential area without any competition nearby, so to my mind it would make sense to find out what the pub could do to enhance the lives of people in the area. For example, the local people may need a meeting space or maybe they need to have somewhere that they can come with their kids. It might take Jamie away from his original dream, but it's going to have to be what the punters want otherwise the won't come, obviously.


Yeah, that's what I think he has been trying to do or, at least, it's what he said he was going to do. I am not sure why it has not worked. He has not been able to keep staff, which is not helping, and I am not sure why. For a while, it was a nice pub, with a bar man who remembered my drink, which was cool, because I didn't go in there that often really, but then he left, too, and all the punters seem to have drifted away, too, other than for special events.


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## golightly (Oct 25, 2012)

From what you say, he's very stressed by the whole thing, which may make him irritable and hard to work with.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2012)

Yeah, I think that may be part of it!


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## Manter (Oct 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Advertising their presence more and getting more active on social networks might help and perhaps inviting down local bloggers/journos to review it.
> 
> It seems that most people here have never heard of the place.


^^ this.  The Northerner is a real ale obsessive rolleyes and he has never been.  I've never heard of it


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 26, 2012)

To be fair to Jamie, he did a lot of promotion in the early days, including getting lots of mentions in Camra publications, and hosting Camra events etc. I don't think it helped his cause that he claimed to be in East Dulwich, because people who wanted to go to East Dulwich would go to East Dulwich, which is nowhere near!


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 26, 2012)

Never been in, will have to check it out. 

Is it open this weekend or will we have to wait until mid November?


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## Get Involved (Oct 26, 2012)

unfortunately this place is just TOO quiet. in the end that puts the very few people who do go there off as well, because you don't want to be basically the only people in a pub. viscious spiral really.  the only times it's busy are when sport is on (i remember once coming in during a six nations match and being shocked that there was actually nowhere to sit!).


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 26, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Never been in, will have to check it out.
> 
> Is it open this weekend or will we have to wait until mid November?


According to the note on the door, it's not open until mid November.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 26, 2012)

Get Involved said:


> unfortunately this place is just TOO quiet. in the end that puts the very few people who do go there off as well, because you don't want to be basically the only people in a pub. viscious spiral really. the only times it's busy are when sport is on (i remember once coming in during a six nations match and being shocked that there was actually nowhere to sit!).


There have been occasions when we have literally been the only people in there other than the bar staff, but that was a long time ago. 

It used to get pretty busy when there was a comedy night, and the quiz was mostly okay. I never went there for the music nights, but they certainly sounded loud enough!

I suppose that was my point, really - it seems only to get people when there is an event, but that is not enough to survive. 

They gave up doing food a long time ago. I think they should persevere with that, and see if they can build up trade that way. Even if just did things like shop bought dips and bread as starters, and stuff heated from the freezer for the mains, I think they might start attracting locals who couldn't be bothered cooking, but didn't fancy a "night out"... All pubs seem to do food these days, but Hoopers haven't quite got it right yet. There are other back street pubs which survive....


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## editor (Oct 26, 2012)

The main problem is that no one's heard of the pub and that's hardly a massive problem to fix. He just needs to get off his arse and make some effort.


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## golightly (Oct 26, 2012)

editor said:


> The main problem is that no one's heard of the pub and that's hardly a massive problem to fix. He just needs to get off his arse and make some effort.


 
You could give him some pointers on promotion.


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## editor (Oct 26, 2012)

golightly said:


> You could give him some pointers on promotion.


I already have but he could start by posting here.


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## golightly (Oct 26, 2012)

He could indeed.  Thing is Camberwell has already got loads of good pubs and Hoopers is just too far from transport routes to attract people, which is why I think that the locals trade is the only option he really has.


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## editor (Oct 26, 2012)

golightly said:


> He could indeed. Thing is Camberwell has already got loads of good pubs and Hoopers is just too far from transport routes to attract people, which is why I think that the locals trade is the only option he really has.


As is getting local newspapers, bloggers and social media talking about the place. Put of the way pubs can prosper but it takes effort, enthusiasm and seeking out an unusual niche.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 26, 2012)

That's a bit unfair! You may not have heard of the pub, but others certainly have, and he did a lot of promotional stuff when he first opened, and since. 

I think the problem is something different, although I'm not sure what. I've suggested lack of food as a factor. Another one might be that the staff keep changing, so there's no familiarity for locals. Perhaps the owner's grumpiness has manifested itself too often. Or perhaps it's just the vicious cycle that, because he's not getting the custom, he can't keep the beers going, so people get pints that are off? 

But whatever it is, it's not true that the owner is lazy and hasn't tried.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 26, 2012)

And I agree about the "niche". Perhaps that's the real issue. I'm trying to think how I'd describe the pub to someone if I wanted them to go there. 

It's a back street real ale pub. The only good thing I can think of is that it's usually quiet. Hardly a reason for going some distance off the beaten track, and without another pub or restaurant nearby to move on to...


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## editor (Oct 27, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> That's a bit unfair! You may not have heard of the pub, but others certainly have, and he did a lot of promotional stuff when he first opened, and since.
> 
> I think the problem is something different, although I'm not sure what. I've suggested lack of food as a factor. Another one might be that the staff keep changing, so there's no familiarity for locals. Perhaps the owner's grumpiness has manifested itself too often. Or perhaps it's just the vicious cycle that, because he's not getting the custom, he can't keep the beers going, so people get pints that are off?
> 
> But whatever it is, it's not true that the owner is lazy and hasn't tried.


I didn't say he was lazy, but it seems pretty obvious he hasn't made that much of an effort to promote the place over things like social media and websites because just about no one here seems to have even heard of the place.

I certainly haven't and I "do" pubs.


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## Citizen66 (Oct 27, 2012)

If there's other real ale pubs in the area that are more easily accessible, why would people wander further to check this place out? 

I'm actually surprised that there's such real ale competition going on, given that in some parts of London decent real ale boozers are as rare as hen's teeth. 

Given that he can't compete from a real ale point of view, what can he offer that his competition doesn't cater for? I've been known to walk the extra mile past good pubs to a particular one in the past if they have a decent juke box loaded with interesting music, for starters. Although that's quite an investment for a pub that's currently on its ass. I don't care too much for food or quizzes. If I want food I'll go to a restaurant and quizzes kill the atmosphere if you're not interested in that, same as sport does.


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## golightly (Oct 27, 2012)

editor said:


> I didn't say he was lazy, but it seems pretty obvious he hasn't made that much of an effort to promote the place over things like social media and websites because just about no one here seems to have even heard of the place.
> 
> I certainly haven't and I "do" pubs.


 
There have been meet ups there that have been arranged on urban which Guinevere can attest.

e2a:  I really don't think it's just about promotion.  The pub needs something to promote.  As c66 said - something to walk past other pubs for.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 27, 2012)

editor said:


> I didn't say he was lazy, but it seems pretty obvious he hasn't made that much of an effort to promote the place over things like social media and websites because just about no one here seems to have even heard of the place.
> 
> I certainly haven't and I "do" pubs.


Actually, I got the impression from this thread that most people had heard of it, but just didn't go there, or had only been there once...

I do think he could have done more with social media and the internet more generally, but I was trying to make the point that, for a while at least, his promotion worked and the pub became popular. But I guess even real ale aficionados would want somewhere to eat, or a different pub nearby to try, or public transport to get to and from the pub?  Frankly, I don't know why it stopped being popular.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 27, 2012)

golightly said:


> There have been meet ups there that have been arranged on urban which Guinevere can attest.
> 
> e2a: I really don't think it's just about promotion. The pub needs something to promote. As c66 said - something to walk past other pubs for.


Yes, I think this is the point. As I said earlier up the thread, I can't think of a hook to try and attract people, other than it being quiet, which is not always an attraction, unless you want to have a deep and meaningful conversation with someone and, in fact, it's probably too quiet for that, because the bar staff would probably hear you! 

And yes, there have been urban meets in there!


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## Ms T (Oct 27, 2012)

My mate used to live opposite Hoopers, which is the only reason I know where it is.  It's in East Dulwich though, not Camberwell.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 27, 2012)

Ms T said:


> My mate used to live opposite Hoopers, which is the only reason I know where it is. It's in East Dulwich though, not Camberwell.


Honestly, it's in Camberwell, although it claims to be in East Dulwich!

My mate also lives opposite it, which is how I know.


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## golightly (Oct 27, 2012)

Call it East Camberwich.

Actually, there's a major problem right there.  No one can agree where it is.


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## Ms T (Oct 27, 2012)

It's probably on the border between the two, like my house is between Brixton and Herne Hill.


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## spanglechick (Oct 27, 2012)

I went once, for someone's birthday. It really is about as far from a bus stop as anywhere in zone 2/3 can be.  I would never go again for that reason.  Although maybe if Reginald D Hunter really has been doing a gig...  Might be worth the hike.  Maybe a comedy club would be the answer? Since the one at the hobgoblin closed, there's a lack of a regular comedy venue - tho obv the half moon in herne hill occasionally does it, as do others I guess.  

But a comedy club isn't regular mon-sun trade.  Not often.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 27, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> And I agree about the "niche". Perhaps that's the real issue. I'm trying to think how I'd describe the pub to someone if I wanted them to go there.
> 
> It's a back street real ale pub. The only good thing I can think of is that it's usually quiet. Hardly a reason for going some distance off the beaten track, and without another pub or restaurant nearby to move on to...


 
Yeah, I'd describe it as generally 'nice'. It's a good pub, most things about it are decent IMO. But there's nothing about it to get me to go there regularly over the many other options that are more convenient (even before we moved house when it was a bit closer).

And all the social media in the world isn't going to change that - they're really never going to be getting regular visitors from Brixton.


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## golightly (Oct 27, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> they're really never going to be getting regular visitors from Brixton.


 
tbf, it's bloody difficult getting people out of Brixton generally.  Some sort of gravitational force acting on Coldharbour Lane I believe.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 27, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> I went once, for someone's birthday. It really is about as far from a bus stop as anywhere in zone 2/3 can be. I would never go again for that reason. Although maybe if Reginald D Hunter really has been doing a gig... Might be worth the hike. Maybe a comedy club would be the answer? Since the one at the hobgoblin closed, there's a lack of a regular comedy venue - tho obv the half moon in herne hill occasionally does it, as do others I guess.
> 
> But a comedy club isn't regular mon-sun trade. Not often.


There used to be a bus stop pretty much outside, but the locals objected, and it was moved!   But it is not far away, if you are on the route of the P13.  HTH.

They did run a comedy night there which was very successful - I am not sure what happened with that.

On a slight derail, which comedy club has closed? The one at the Hob in Forest Hill is still running, isn't it?


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## editor (Oct 27, 2012)

golightly said:


> There have been meet ups there that have been arranged on urban which Guinevere can attest.
> 
> e2a: I really don't think it's just about promotion. The pub needs something to promote. As c66 said - something to walk past other pubs for.


Yes. And then you promote that, just like I have to do when I put on a club night that's competing with loads of other club nights. You have to work out what's special, good and unique about the place and then tell the world. 

As it is, all I've learnt about the pub is that it exists and sells real ale.


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## spanglechick (Oct 27, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> There used to be a bus stop pretty much outside, but the locals objected, and it was moved!   But it is not far away, if you are on the route of the P13.  HTH.
> 
> They did run a comedy night there which was very successful - I am not sure what happened with that.
> 
> On a slight derail, which comedy club has closed? The one at the Hob in Forest Hill is still running, isn't it?


Yup - and does at least three nights a week. The hobgoblin is where the hootenanny took over in Brixton. They used to do a monthly comedy club there.  Quite big names.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 27, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> Yup - and does at least three nights a week. The hobgoblin is where the hootenanny took over in Brixton. They used to do a monthly comedy club there. Quite big names.


Oh, okay. I was worried for a minute 

The Hob in Forest Hill used to be called the Hobgoblin, you see, when it was part of the same chain as the one in Brixton


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## golightly (Oct 27, 2012)

editor said:


> As it is, all I've learnt about the pub is that it exists and sells real ale.


 
Not much more to say than that.  It would be a shame if it went, but at this point it doesn't look like it'll be greatly missed, seeing as hardly anyone was aware of its existence.


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## Miss-Shelf (Oct 27, 2012)

I really enjoyed the elvis night last year
had to get a cab there and back though

spangles idea of a commedy club is good


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## Maggot (Nov 10, 2012)

They are doing a comedy benefit night on 2nd December, in aid of Fareshare.   

A good chance to support the pub and a worthwhile charity. 



*Hoopers Charity Comedy Night in aid of **




*

*Join us for some top class comedy and the opportunity to sample the extensive range of beers & ales this cozy pub has to offer*.





What                    Hoopers Charity Comedy Night
Who                     Comedians Nick Revell, Keith Platt, Annabel O'Connell, Tom                                      Hayward, David Hannant and MC Siôn James
When                    *Sunday 2 December 2012*
Where                   Hoopers, 28 Ivanhoe Road, East Dulwich, London, SE5 8DH
Time                     Doors open at 7.00pm and the show begins at 8.00pm
Book                     email  info@hoopersbar.co.uk or call Hoopers on  020 7733 4797                              to reserve a table
Transport              BR: East Dulwich / Denmark Hill/Peckham Rye, Tube:                                                                           Oval/Brixton,  Bus P13, 40, 176, 185, 484

More info            jessjam5@hotmail.com or text 077 3480 5817


*Entry is free. There will be a collection for audience donations with all proceeds going to FareShare. *

*The Acts*
·         *Nick Revell  *
Multi-Award Winning Comedian Legend and Emmy & BAFTA Award winning writer for Drop the Dead Donkey.
_A master craftsman_ Time Out           
_Scalpel-sharp satirist_ Evening Standard                   
_Satirically brilliant...travel miles to see him_ Guardian 
·         *Keith Platt*
_Brilliant, like a Yorkshire Al Murray_ Daily Mail      
_Unmissable _Time Out 
·         *Annabel O'Connell*
Finalist in Dublin’s Laughter Lounge Craic Attack Comedy Competition 2012
_Annabel O'Connell should have been a nun because she has so many bad habits_
·         *Tom Hayward *
Semi-finalist in So You Think You’re Funny
_Hayward is a name to watch_ Metro
·         *David Hannant *
Finalist of Up The Creek 'One To Watch' competition 2011
_Charming, clever and quality_ ThreeWeeks 
_Intelligent wit, expertly delivered_ thenewkid.co.uk 
·         *MC Siôn James* 
_Sion James bases his set around interaction with the audience and reminds us what stand-up should be as he riffs expertly_  3 weeks EdFringe


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## Guineveretoo (Nov 10, 2012)

I wish they wouldn't put their comedy night on a Sunday, though!


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## editor (Nov 10, 2012)

Tell 'em to mail their details to brixtonbuzz.com


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## Guineveretoo (Nov 12, 2012)

It has reopened, but only at weekends. 

There were 3 people in there on Saturday night, apparently.


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## editor (Nov 12, 2012)

We've still received nothing at brixtnbuzz.


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## Guineveretoo (Nov 12, 2012)

editor said:


> We've still received nothing at brixtnbuzz.


 
Did you email them about it? I didn't, although I did message them on facebook about it.

I seem to have slipped off their email list, since I didn't even get the info about the comedy night which Maggot quoted above.


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## editor (Nov 12, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> Did you email them about it? I didn't, although I did message them on facebook about it.


No. I haven't really got time to chase up pubs to help them with their own promotion if they can't be arsed to do anything themselves!


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## Guineveretoo (Nov 12, 2012)

editor said:


> No. I haven't really got time to chase up pubs to help them with their own promotion if they can't be arsed to do anything themselves!


Me neither. 

I don't even live in Brixton. Or Camberwell


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## William of Walworth (Nov 13, 2012)

It's a real shame Hooper's isn't succeeding too well. I only discovered it in 2008, shortly before I left London, and that was through real ale connections (plus also people mentioning it on here). Location far from ideal, although we enjoyed the walk between there and the Hermit's. The Hoopers beer choice used to be cracking, festivaldeb and I both rated it highly.

Does it not do food any more? It certainly used to.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 4, 2012)

Last day of trading to be Christmas Eve apparently.


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## editor (Dec 4, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Last day of trading to be Christmas Eve apparently.


That is a shame.


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## Brixton Hatter (Dec 5, 2012)

I've witnessed the rare phenomenon of a pub *reopening *on Camberwell New Road. The Clarendon Arms - formerly a slightly dodgy-looking bar called Miliki Spot - has been reopened as a proper pub. No idea of the story behind it, but it's there. Didn't get a chance to pop in for a beer but maybe I will soon. It's on Camberwell New Road at the junction with Wyndham Road. Here's a pic:



Anyone know it?


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## George & Bill (Dec 5, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I've witnessed the rare phenomenon of a pub *reopening *on Camberwell New Road. The Clarendon Arms - formerly a slightly dodgy-looking bar called Miliki Spot - has been reopened as a proper pub. No idea of the story behind it, but it's there. Didn't get a chance to pop in for a beer but maybe I will soon. It's on Camberwell New Road at the junction with Wyndham Road. Here's a pic:
> 
> View attachment 25786
> 
> Anyone know it?


 
It is of course good news that anyone would think of opening a new pub business at the moment - but what makes the Miliki Spot a 'dodgy-looking bar' but the Clarendon a 'proper pub'?


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## Maggot (Dec 5, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> It is of course good news that anyone would think of opening a new pub business at the moment - but what makes the Miliki Spot a 'dodgy-looking bar' but the Clarendon a 'proper pub'?


The name.


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## tarannau (Dec 5, 2012)

And the fact that it doesn't have plasticised letters on the windows, in a style, shape and typeface reminiscent of a Soho Sex Store to boot.

To be fair, I'm sure it was a perfectly adequate (African themed?) bar, but there's something that doesn't ring true as a pub visually from outside.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 5, 2012)

tarannau said:


> To be fair, I'm sure it was a perfectly adequate (African themed?) bar, but there's something that doesn't ring true as a pub visually from outside.


 
From google it seems it was a Nigerian Pub as Miliki Spot, and was the Clarendon Arms before that.


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## George & Bill (Dec 5, 2012)

Maggot said:


> The name.



Wow. So it has the all-day opening of a pub, sells beer like a pub, has a pool table, and is in a pub building - but because it had been re-named to appeal to West Africans, it's not a pub? That's quite a suggestion, Maggot.


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## George & Bill (Dec 5, 2012)

tarannau said:


> And the fact that it doesn't have plasticised letters on the windows, in a style, shape and typeface reminiscent of a Soho Sex Store to boot.
> 
> To be fair, I'm sure it was a perfectly adequate (African themed?) bar, but there's something that doesn't ring true as a pub visually from outside.



It wasn't an 'African themed' bar, it was a pub run and largely (though by no means exclusively) used by West Africans. Having some garish signage does not stop a place from being a pub


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## tarannau (Dec 6, 2012)

No, but it stops folks easily recognising it as a pub that would appeal to them. There are certain visual expectations and associations that you play with your peril - it takes a bold brand to try and circumvent those conventions, and the successful exceptions generally don't rely on hastily tacked on lettering and a confused approach. 

Not saying it was a bad place - I've never drunk in there - but I can see why punters were seeing it from the outside and not being drawn in.


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## George & Bill (Dec 6, 2012)

tarannau said:


> No, but it stops folks easily recognising it as a pub that would appeal to them. There are certain visual expectations and associations that you play with your peril - it takes a bold brand to try and circumvent those conventions, and the successful exceptions generally don't rely on hastily tacked on lettering and a confused approach.
> 
> Not saying it was a bad place - I've never drunk in there - but I can see why punters were seeing it from the outside and not being drawn in.



Well that's a totally different discussion from that of whether or not it's a pub. 

TBH I wonder whether you'd have questioned its status as a pub if it had exactly the same signage (and for the record I think the Clarendon is actually less appealingly and thoughtfully designed), but was called 'The Old Red Lion' or similar. At least Maggot just came out and said it.


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## Guineveretoo (Dec 6, 2012)

tarannau said:


> No, but it stops folks easily recognising it as a pub that would appeal to them. There are certain visual expectations and associations that you play with your peril - it takes a bold brand to try and circumvent those conventions, and the successful exceptions generally don't rely on hastily tacked on lettering and a confused approach.
> 
> Not saying it was a bad place - I've never drunk in there - but I can see why punters were seeing it from the outside and not being drawn in.


I can also see why people were not drawn in or, at least, those looking for a traditional pub. 

I tried to go there one time, because I liked the name, and thought it might be a bit quirky. It seemed to have odd opening hours, though, and was closed, despite it being a Sunday afternoon, which I thought was a bit odd. We looked through the windows, to see what sort of place it was, and we decided it probably wasn't ever designed for a place to go on a Sunday afternoon, to chill out. It also didn't seem to do any food of interest to a vegetarian, iirc. 

Anyway, we never did go again, despite going past it loads of times, and I guess it is too late now. I will certainly give it a go under its new name, if I am passing and in the mood. 

It looks like it also too late for Hoopers Bar, as well! I wonder what will happen to it now....


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## golightly (Dec 6, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> I tried to go there one time, because I liked the name, and thought it might be a bit quirky.


 
Yeah, I liked the name too.  It always reminded me of the Clockwork Orange.


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## George & Bill (Dec 6, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> I can also see why people were not drawn in or, at least, those looking for a traditional pub.
> 
> I tried to go there one time, because I liked the name, and thought it might be a bit quirky. It seemed to have odd opening hours, though, and was closed, despite it being a Sunday afternoon, which I thought was a bit odd. We looked through the windows, to see what sort of place it was, and we decided it probably wasn't ever designed for a place to go on a Sunday afternoon, to chill out. It also didn't seem to do any food of interest to a vegetarian, iirc.
> 
> Anyway, we never did go again, despite going past it loads of times, and I guess it is too late now. I will certainly give it a go under its new name, if I am passing and in the mood.



No I agree, I wouldn't have gone to the Miliki for a relaxing Sunday afternoon either - but I'd be surprised if the Clarendon, which to me also looks like a decidedly basic setup, has much by way of comfort or decent food (let alone veggie options), either.


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## Guineveretoo (Dec 6, 2012)

golightly said:


> Yeah, I liked the name too. It always reminded me of the Clockwork Orange.


Yeah, me too!


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## Guineveretoo (Jan 8, 2013)

Well, Hoopers didn't even make it to Christmas Eve, apparently - it is now shut, with nothing seemingly known about what will happen to it.  Hopefully, it will be taken over by someone with a bit more nous, and stay as a pub, but it seems unlikely....


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