# RIP Caroline Flack.



## xsunnysuex (Feb 15, 2020)

Found dead age 40. So so sad!  🙁


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## ffsear (Feb 15, 2020)

..


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## ffsear (Feb 15, 2020)

Love Island presenter Caroline Flack dies aged 40
					

The TV star was found dead in her flat in east London.




					metro.co.uk


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 15, 2020)

Didn't know much about her but very sad. If any good comes from this then maybe press will have spotlight on them for a bit


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## moomoo (Feb 15, 2020)

The media are disgusting. I hope someone is held accountable for this.


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## ffsear (Feb 15, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Didn't know much about her but very sad. If any good comes from this then maybe press will have spotlight on them for a bit



Hopefully big backlash coming.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2020)

Very sad. From the above comments I assume people are reading between the lines that it’s suicide? That’s terrible if she felt that was her only recourse.


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## girasol (Feb 15, 2020)

What????


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 15, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> Very sad. From the above comments I assume people are reading between the lines that it’s suicide? That’s terrible if she felt that was her only recourse.



Yeah prob shouldn't assume, but trial coming up, valentines day, 40. Anyway it's grim.


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## farmerbarleymow (Feb 15, 2020)

I've not heard of her but 40 is a young age to die.


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## Ax^ (Feb 15, 2020)

lass has a history of depression and drug use and has been crucified by the press for her presonal life

Rip hopefully find some peace


also cocaine is a shit drug


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 15, 2020)

I know threads got merged but weird to keep this in the telly forum instead of UK news given potential implications/consequences/fallout


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## pinkmonkey (Feb 15, 2020)

Awful. 😩


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 15, 2020)

What the fuck??? I'm only vaguely aware of her but fuck. That's awful.


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 15, 2020)

I never watched Love Island, but was aware of Caroline Flack from Strictly Come Dancing, and also from the Im a Celebrity fan show that she used to work on.

I was also aware from social media of some of what was going on in recent months.

I am feeling really sad and shocked about this death.

We have been talking about suicide at work a lot recently, for reasons I don't want to go in to.

Please reach out to people you think may be distressed.

And please, if you are feeling distressed, reach out to your family and friends!

And don't forget the Samaritans - they are just there as someone to talk to and are there 24 hours a day.









						Contact a Samaritan
					

If you’re going through a tough time, contact us free. We won't judge you or tell you what to do. We are here to listen so you don't have to face it alone.




					www.samaritans.org
				




Their phone number is 116 123









						BBC - Information and Support: Suicide / Emotional Distress
					

Support organisations for those feeling emotionally distressed.




					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Baronage-Phase (Feb 15, 2020)

Shocked to read this. 
Very sad. 
😟


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## weltweit (Feb 15, 2020)

I don't know the back story to this, nor have I seen her on the box, but to be found dead at age 40, and on Valentines day, very sad, RIP


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## Pickman's model (Feb 15, 2020)

Awful to see someone apparently hounded to her death.

Very sad


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## DJWrongspeed (Feb 15, 2020)

The Love Island show is cursed......hope it never returns, poor women.


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## Sprocket. (Feb 15, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Awful to see someone apparently hounded to her death.
> 
> Very sad



This post says what I feel Pickman's model, so sad, so avoidable.
RIP.


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## Mogden (Feb 15, 2020)

I hope she's now resting in peace. I didn't watch that shit storm of a programme but I hope it's now cancelled after 3 seemingly related deaths.

May this decade be the one where we build positivity about each other rather than doing our damnedest to put people down.


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## Sasaferrato (Feb 15, 2020)

Caroline Flack was found dead earlier today, her family have stated it was suicide.









						Caroline Flack, former presenter of Love Island, dies aged 40
					

Host, who left her job last year, reported to have been found at her home in London




					www.theguardian.com
				




What a waste of a life, only 40, no age at all.


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 15, 2020)

RIP Caroline Flack.
					

Found dead age 40. So so sad!  🙁




					www.urban75.net


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## Edie (Feb 15, 2020)

She attacked her boyfriend with a lamp whilst he was asleep.


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## Ax^ (Feb 15, 2020)

she won't do that again


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## wayward bob (Feb 15, 2020)

Mogden said:


> May this decade be the one where we build positivity about each other rather than doing our damnedest to put people down.


i don't know (of) ms flack in any capacity. but if the circumstances of her death relate in some way to social media i'm in agreement. 

ime the urban contingent is of an age that generally straddles the pre/post internet chasm. i'm not sure whether we're the lucky ones or not...


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## wayward bob (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> She attacked her boyfriend with a lamp whilst he was asleep.


and he killed her? sorry i literally have no understanding of the circumstances and no current inclination to go looking.


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## moomoo (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> She attacked her boyfriend with a lamp whilst he was asleep.



Allegedly.


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## Edie (Feb 15, 2020)

wayward bob said:


> and he killed her? sorry i literally have no understanding of the circumstances and no current inclination to go looking.


No, she killed herself whilst awaiting trial.


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## planetgeli (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> She attacked her boyfriend with a lamp whilst he was asleep.


... fuck it.


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## Thora (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> She attacked her boyfriend with a lamp whilst he was asleep.


She was accused of that, but didn’t the boyfriend dispute that?


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## Edie (Feb 15, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> Well, you can't libel the dead so I guess you're safe on that one. But he wasn't supporting the prosecution.


Oh really? Tbh I know fuck all about it. Police found em both covered in blood and him with a head wound apparently. Whole things fucked up obviously. Media loving it. Not heard of her before tbh cos I don’t watch Love Island.


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## Edie (Feb 15, 2020)

Thora said:


> She was accused of that, but didn’t the boyfriend dispute that?


Apparently so. Not unusual in DV.


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## wayward bob (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> No, she killed herself whilst awaiting trial.


i guess in a similar situation i'd do the same. speaking from a point of never having been physically violent to anyone else. not excusing.


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## wayward bob (Feb 15, 2020)

okay, definitely time to step away from the thread. i have some osas  waiting for my tea downstairs.


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## Thora (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> No, she killed herself whilst awaiting trial.


Do we know she killed herself?

Her boyfriend subsequently described her as harmless and said the photos of the alleged crime scene with his blood that appeared in the media were fake.


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## Sprocket. (Feb 15, 2020)

She won Strictly in 2014 too.


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## a_chap (Feb 15, 2020)

I saw "Caroline Flack" trending on Twitter. No idea who she was. It was only when I saw the thread(s) about her on Urban that I bothered to Google the name.

I'm sad someone has died - suicide (if that's what it turns out to be) is truly awful.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> Not heard of her before tbh cos I don’t watch Love Island.


She was a contestant on Strictly, and presented shows in the X Factor and I’m A Celebrity franchises, amongst other things. She dated Harry Styles.

I’m something of a metaphorical high court judge, but was aware of all that.

Whatever the truth of the domestic violence charges - and we don’t know - it’s still sad if she took her own life. That is not in any way to diminish the seriousness of the allegations.


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## Edie (Feb 15, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> She was a contestant on Strictly, and presented shows in the X Factor and I’m A Celebrity franchises, amongst other things. She dated Harry Styles.
> 
> I’m something of a metaphorical high court judge, but was aware of all that.
> 
> Whatever the truth of the domestic violence charges - and we don’t know - it’s still sad if she took her own life. That is not in any way to diminish the seriousness of the allegations.


Oh right. Just don’t watch Sat night tv tbh (except TGD). Or read the Mail sidebar (although totally did used to). How the fuck do _you_ know that an ex Love Island presenter dated a boy band member?

edit: I’m largely indifferent to her death except a vague sense it’s sad when anyone kills themselves.


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## kebabking (Feb 15, 2020)

If there s to be an upside to this, one hopes it might be a rather stiff comparison  between the commercial/media treatment of Slack, and whichever TV Geordie it was who was who got done for drunk driving after ploughing into another car and injuring a kid.

One got sacked, the other got 'time and space to fight his demons' and is now back on TV...


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## QueenOfGoths (Feb 15, 2020)

I agree with what danny la rouge said above.

I'm aware of her via Strictly and had heard of the domestic violence charge but hadn't read a lot about it but I find it sad that a young woman has possibly taken her own life.


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## moomoo (Feb 15, 2020)

Edie said:


> Oh right. Just don’t watch Sat night tv tbh (except TGD). Or read the Mail sidebar (although totally did used to). How the fuck do _you_ know that an ex Love Island presenter dated a boy band member?
> 
> edit: I’m largely indifferent to her death except a vague sense it’s sad when anyone kills themselves.



I know of her through my daughter who watches stuff like this!


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## Edie (Feb 15, 2020)

moomoo said:


> I know of her through my daughter who watches stuff like this!


Fair enough. Love Island is massively popular.


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## girasol (Feb 15, 2020)

kebabking said:


> If there s to be an upside to this, one hopes it might be a rather stiff comparison  between the commercial/media treatment of Slack, and whichever TV Geordie it was who was who got done for drunk driving after ploughing into another car and injuring a kid.
> 
> One got sacked, the other got 'time and space to fight his demons' and is now back on TV...



Official line was she decided not to present Love Island, iirc. I wonder if she was getting professional help, like Ant or Dec did, or was just spiralling down, alone.


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## maomao (Feb 15, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> She dated Harry Styles.


When he was 17 and she was in her thirties.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2020)

maomao said:


> When he was 17 and she was in her thirties.


I know. It was creepy.


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## elbows (Feb 15, 2020)

Thora said:


> Do we know she killed herself?



Yes.



> A lawyer for the family said the star had taken her own life.











						Caroline Flack: TV presenter dies at 40
					

The former Love Island host was found dead in her London flat, her family confirm.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## scifisam (Feb 15, 2020)

That's horribly sad. Doing it on Valentine's Day isn't going to make it any easier for her BF either.



danny la rouge said:


> She was a contestant on Strictly, and presented shows in the X Factor and I’m A Celebrity franchises, amongst other things. She dated Harry Styles.
> 
> I’m something of a metaphorical high court judge, but was aware of all that.
> 
> Whatever the truth of the domestic violence charges - and we don’t know - it’s still sad if she took her own life. That is not in any way to diminish the seriousness of the allegations.



I'm not much of a high court judge type, but I didn't know who she was either. Nobody in my house watches Love Island that type of show, and I don't read celebrity stuff. The name was sort of familiar but for some reason I thought she was a politician.


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## elbows (Feb 15, 2020)

scifisam said:


> The name was sort of familiar but for some reason I thought she was a politician.



Caroline Flint is an MP.

edit - oops, was an MP. Lost seat at last election.


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## farmerbarleymow (Feb 15, 2020)

wayward bob said:


> ime the urban contingent is of an age that generally straddles the pre/post internet chasm. i'm not sure whether we're the lucky ones or not...


We are definitely the lucky ones.  For a start, thank fuck social media didn't exist so my mispent youth could be recorded for eternity.  Being of this generation probably makes us more grounded in general.


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## marty21 (Feb 15, 2020)

Sad news,  I didn't watch Love Island , but remember her winning Strictly, the media were all over her love life for years,  creepy obsession with her .RIP.


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## planetgeli (Feb 15, 2020)

maomao said:


> When he was 17 and she was in her thirties.





danny la rouge said:


> I know. It was creepy.



Ah right, ok. I think it was 17 and 31 btw ('in her thirties').

Out of interest, can either of you judges tell me where the line is drawn?

When I was 17, my gf at the time was 26. Relationship broken by me going to uni (distance).

When I was 24, my gf was 17. Relationship lasted 7 years (so, 31/24).

Now, my partner is nearly 10 years older than me. Been together 25 years. Started at 31/40, but I knew her at 21/30, and it's not inconceivable we could have started a relationship then.

Can either of you inform me which of these relationships was 'creepy' and how I've lived my life wrong? KThx.


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## Treacle Toes (Feb 15, 2020)

Not a watcher of strictly nor love island so had no awareness of her until the domestic violence incident was reported some weeks back.

What I am finding sickening is the scummy reporters like Piers et al and their platitudes on twitter...all of them have been complicit in mocking her and ramping up the gossip.

The Scum published this shit yesterday, now have deleted. Yet Dan Wooton is fawning along with the rest of them. Her family have issued a statement saying she died today.









						The Sun takes down article about Caroline Flack from website
					

Piece about a Valentine’s Day card mocking the presenter was removed amid concerns over media coverage of her arrest




					www.theguardian.com


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> Out of interest, can either of you judges tell me where the line is drawn?


No. And no offence to you was intended. Or implied.

If it makes any difference, my own partner is 7 years older than me.

I didn’t intend to imply I was in possession of a simple arithmetic formula. But if you’re looking for nuance, I must admit I’m too drunk to attempt to commit nuance to prosperity right now.


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## ffsear (Feb 15, 2020)

farmerbarleymow said:


> We are definitely the lucky ones.  For a start, thank fuck social media didn't exist so my mispent youth could be recorded for eternity.  Being of this generation probably makes us more grounded in general.


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## bellaozzydog (Feb 15, 2020)

maomao said:


> When he was 17 and she was in her thirties.



and.....is this some sort of indication that she was a “wrong un”

she just killed herself, put a lid on it


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## wayward bob (Feb 15, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> ...to commit nuance to prosperity right now.


posterity

 at self


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## danny la rouge (Feb 15, 2020)

wayward bob said:


> posterity
> 
> at self


That’s rich coming from you. 🥁


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## wayward bob (Feb 15, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> That’s rich coming from you. 🥁


i was genuinely peering at that trying to work out if it was a glass of red or a halter-neck bra  (both equally applicable )

<eta: shit none of which appropriate to the thread, soz>


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## Sasaferrato (Feb 15, 2020)




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## pinkmonkey (Feb 15, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> Not a watcher of strictly nor love island so had no awareness of her until the domestic violence incident was reported some weeks back.
> 
> What I am finding sickening is the scummy reporters like Piers et al and their platitudes on twitter...all of them have been complicit in mocking her and ramping up the gossip.
> 
> ...



The designer of the greetings card has shut down their social media and removed the card from sale. Twitter is having a fucking meltdown right now, it’s so predictable. It’s so depressing.


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## wayward bob (Feb 15, 2020)

fuck twitter


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 15, 2020)

wayward bob said:


> fuck twitter



<fuck off to to the cunts that use Twitter to be cunts>


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## equationgirl (Feb 16, 2020)

Edie said:


> She attacked her boyfriend with a lamp whilst he was asleep.


Allegedly. She was not convicted of anything as the trial had yet to happen.


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## PartTimer (Feb 16, 2020)

Love the way people post on here to state categorically that they have no idea who she is.


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## a_chap (Feb 16, 2020)

Thank you


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 16, 2020)

PartTimer said:


> Love the way people post on here to state categorically that they have no idea who she is.


It's an Urban tradition.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 16, 2020)

PartTimer said:


> Love the way people post on here to state categorically that they have no idea who she is.



Just showing our age and/or concern about how someone can be hounded to death,  I guess.


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## tim (Feb 16, 2020)

PartTimer said:


> Love the way people post on here to state categorically that they have no idea who she is.



And who are you?


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## salem (Feb 16, 2020)

Caroline Flack: Love Island episode taken off air after ex-host's death
					

ITV pull Saturday's edition of Love Island following the death of the show's former host.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				






> ITV2's programme announcer said: "In light of today's sad news we're replacing tonight's episode of Love Island: Unseen Bits with a double bill of You've Been Framed."



Ah well that'll help cheer the nation up.


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## marshall (Feb 16, 2020)

Her management is blaming the CPS for an unnecessary ‘show trial’, but surely, they’d have credible evidence to prosecute, wouldn’t they? 999 phone records, police body cams when they arrived, neighbours’ testimony, reports from her exes. The fact that her b/f withdrew his accusations is par for the course in DV cases isn’t it? I mean what were the CPS meant to do, we want them to take reports of DV more seriously, so…sure it’s tragic but she sounds like she had serious issues which her management were probably aware of years ago. 

Maybe they should look at themselves.


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## Treacle Toes (Feb 16, 2020)

Yeah blaming the cps is a bit too convenient IMO. If it had been the other way around and her BF was the suspected perp, there'd be outrage if they weren't following the incident up.

All I can see is people around her finger pointing most probably through shock and sadness, others clearly desparate to exonerate themselves after they were very much a part of the harassment and humiliation machine that is the MSM/tabloid media.

#CarolinesLaw trending on twitter this morning. Calling for a stop to the culture of media led bullying. Specifically of female celebrities.


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## salem (Feb 16, 2020)

She'll do that classic overnight flip from tabloid villain to martyr a la Diana and Jade Goody. 

No nuance of the situation required!


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## kebabking (Feb 16, 2020)

Her management company/agent is called _Money Management ,_which probably tells you all you need to know about the priorities involved.

How many of those who were happily hiving of the 10/20% knew she was _vunerable _but kept selling the celeb-social media roles?


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## Glitter (Feb 16, 2020)

maomao said:


> When he was 17 and she was in her thirties.



The press never left her alone after that. I’m not getting into a discussion on age gap relationships but it’s hardly unusual in celebrity circles.

What was unusual was the woman being older.

She was clearly fucked up, the dv charge is a particularly troubling element but the press hounding started here, when she was riding high after winning Strictly. How much the constant hounding she got from there contributed to her fragile state and the events that followed is anyone’s guess but it would be naive in the extreme to think it didn’t have an impact.


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## Celyn (Feb 16, 2020)

PartTimer said:


> Love the way people post on here to state categorically that they have no idea who she is.


To  be fair, it's probably bemusement that she is the lead story on the BBC news website, given that other things happen in the world. That, with a bit of wry acknowledgement of being out of touch in some way.


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## Treacle Toes (Feb 16, 2020)

PartTimer said:


> Love the way people post on here to state categorically that they have no idea who she is.



If it's true what's the problem?


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## maomao (Feb 16, 2020)

Glitter said:


> The press never left her alone after that. I’m not getting into a discussion on age gap relationships but it’s hardly unusual in celebrity circles.
> 
> What was unusual was the woman being older.
> 
> She was clearly fucked up, the dv charge is a particularly troubling element but the press hounding started here, when she was riding high after winning Strictly. How much the constant hounding she got from there contributed to her fragile state and the events that followed is anyone’s guess but it would be naive in the extreme to think it didn’t have an impact.


It's definitely less fucked up than middle aged record company execs chasing teenage female pop stars. I was just posting out of surprise really. I hadn't heard of her in 2011.

I think it's possible to be a victim of toxic celebrity culture and to have been complicit in it to some extent too. That's how the whole thing works.


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## Glitter (Feb 16, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> If it's true what's the problem?



It feels like a bit of competitive ‘I don’t watch such low brow tv’ posturing.

If they don’t know who she was why take the trouble to post?


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## IC3D (Feb 16, 2020)

Ive been punched in the face in my sleep by a female partner with cocaine and MH issues Id be pretty defensive if women started saying oh its not been to court yet and leaping to her defense. 
Hasnt Love Island had at one other suicide associated with the show, its a really grim premise I find it sad how massively popular it is.


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## Treacle Toes (Feb 16, 2020)

Glitter said:


> It feels like a bit of competitive ‘I don’t watch such low brow tv’ posturing.
> 
> If they don’t know who she was why take the trouble to post?



I posted above about how she came on my radar. That wasn't posturing, I just don't watch the programs she was on. I get your point but FWIW I don't think everyone who says they don't or didn't know of her is being sneery.


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 16, 2020)

Glitter said:


> It feels like a bit of competitive ‘I don’t watch such low brow tv’ posturing.
> 
> If they don’t know who she was why take the trouble to post?


We can't all know who everyone is but can still be interested/shocked/moved by the sudden death of a young person.


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## Glitter (Feb 16, 2020)

maomao said:


> It's definitely less fucked up than middle aged record company execs chasing teenage female pop stars. I was just posting out of surprise really. I hadn't heard of her in 2011.
> 
> I think it's possible to be a victim of toxic celebrity culture and to have been complicit in it to some extent too. That's how the whole thing works.



Oh yeah, definitely.

I’m torn on this one as I really liked her in Strictly and the hate she got for shagging HS was horrendous. Obviously things have spiralled massively for her and it’s impossible to condone or excuse what she was accused of (if she was guilty) but what has happened now is just beyond words.

Questions should be asked about how it got here. But I think they probably should a lot of the time and when the answer is a huge overhaul of patriachy, celebrity culture and life as we know it I can’t see anyone taking that on.


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## Glitter (Feb 16, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> I posted above about how she came on my radar. That wasn't posturing, I just don't watch the programs she was on. I get your point but FWIW I don't think everyone who says they don't or didn't know of her is being sneery.





Mrs Miggins said:


> We can't all know who everyone is but can still be interested/shocked/moved by the sudden death of a young person.



I’ve just read this thread again and actually nobody has done any of the stuff I said, apologies.

I’ve been reading a lot around this for the last couple of hours and I have seen it elsewhere and got confused by what I’ve seen where.

There’s a huge difference between ‘I don’t know who she is but this is a terrible thing to have happened’ vs what I described.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 16, 2020)

maomao said:


> It's definitely less fucked up than middle aged record company execs chasing teenage female pop stars. I was just posting out of surprise really. I hadn't heard of her in 2011.
> 
> I think it's possible to be a victim of toxic celebrity culture and to have been complicit in it to some extent too. That's how the whole thing works.


What I found creepy was that she was in a position of power in the show that he was a then young protege of. It was a brief relationship, but it felt something like a lecturer/student relationship: not something to be encouraged whatever the genders of those involved.

I take the point though that she was a damaged person in an unhealthy  industry. Indeed we’re all to some extent damaged people unavoidably living in an unhealthy society.

That she may have made some bad choices and behaved badly does not stop me feeling empathy for her situation or for those who knew her. It’s a sad story all round.


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 16, 2020)

According to the Guardian she was on Loose Women a while back talking about her anxiety and how her work helped her with it. Apparently, working on live TV helped her manage it. 

So, being forced to stop working at all, and not being able to see her boyfriend (apparently, he didn't accept her prosecution and wanted to continue in a relationship with her), and being stuck at home with the press outside and with social media full of stuff about her....


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## marshall (Feb 16, 2020)

farmerbarleymow said:


> We are definitely the lucky ones.  For a start, thank fuck social media didn't exist so my mispent youth could be recorded for eternity.  Being of this generation probably makes us more grounded in general.



Agree, 100%. Anyone who's watched Eighth Grade can imagine the pressure social media places on kids today. 'Tis a fucked up world and I reckon the pre-internet generation recognises that clearer than those gens who followed. So much about the internet is fantastic, almost sci-fi to someone of my age, but social media in general is just wrong, an aberration.


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## two sheds (Feb 16, 2020)

marshall said:


> social media in general is just wrong, an aberration.



Well the bullying use made of it but of that aspect yes not disagreeing.


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## pinkmonkey (Feb 16, 2020)

Glitter said:


> The press never left her alone after that. I’m not getting into a discussion on age gap relationships but it’s hardly unusual in celebrity circles.
> 
> What was unusual was the woman being older.
> 
> She was clearly fucked up, the dv charge is a particularly troubling element but the press hounding started here, when she was riding high after winning Strictly. How much the constant hounding she got from there contributed to her fragile state and the events that followed is anyone’s guess but it would be naive in the extreme to think it didn’t have an impact.


Mate of mine who has adhd and is a counsellor and therapist working with young  offenders said after the alleged attack, ‘undiagnosed adhd’. I tend to agree. She also said Katie Price ( she seems textbook to me too, what with the reckless cheating and spending). Mel B and Ant McPartlin. (Who are both now diagnosed). We adhd folk can be impulsive and reckless, sometimes that means violence, or other troubles with the law, but we also feel shame x 10000 times more than normals do.


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## starfish (Feb 16, 2020)

Such a shame. I remember watching her saturday morning show with Sam & Mark years ago. RIP.


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## belboid (Feb 16, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> Yeah blaming the cps is a bit too convenient IMO. If it had been the other way around and her BF was the suspected perp, there'd be outrage if they weren't following the incident up.


It’s very unusual for the police to prosecute if the victim doesn’t want to, even if there is plenty of other evidence.  

Of course, the majority of such victimsare female, and most likely in greater danger if a prosecution does go ahead.


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## D'wards (Feb 16, 2020)

Former head of CPS was on lbc this morning. He totally rejected the idea of a "show trail" stating that they will only prosecute if they consider on balance of probability there is enough evidence for there to probably be a guilty verdict. Taking into account the evidence they will be presenting. 

He stated that every not guilty verdict is a black mark against the CPS so would not frivolously make a prosecution on a high profile case like this.


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## pinkmonkey (Feb 16, 2020)

Trial by media/social media and then the court case must've been too much to bear.


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## D'wards (Feb 16, 2020)

Obvious to say, but suicide is such a bad do.
A permanent solution to a temporary problem. 
Was discussing with a friend who is in the filth. She reckons if found guilty she may have got community service but not custodial. 
The whole thing would have blown over in time


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 16, 2020)

Guineveretoo said:


> According to the Guardian she was on Loose Women a while back talking about her anxiety and how her work helped her with it. Apparently, working on live TV helped her manage it.
> 
> So, being forced to stop working at all, and not being able to see her boyfriend (apparently, he didn't accept her prosecution and wanted to continue in a relationship with her), and being stuck at home with the press outside and with social media full of stuff about her....



We've all got anxiety. Most of us manage to deal with it in a way that doesn't involve bashing anyone's head in.


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 16, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Obvious to say, but suicide is such a bad do.
> A permanent solution to a temporary problem.
> Was discussing with a friend who is in the filth. She reckons if found guilty she may have got community service but not custodial.
> The whole thing would have blown over in time


If the woman was sufficiently mentally unwell to have taken her own life it is unlikely that her suicide is down to just this one thing. There will have been many, many things that have brought her to this point. Perhaps this is what tipped her over the edge.

I imagine she has probably lived for a long time with feelings of self loathing and pointlessness and has managed to keep it in check until now. I imagine stories in the press constantly criticising when you already have low self esteem must be extremely hard to deal with. That evil little voice that tells you you're not good enough has actual, real world back up no matter how hard you try to ignore it.

And now, not only is it an absolute tragedy for her, there are a load of people left with a crushing grief because someone they loved thought that the best thing - the only thing - they could do was to kill themselves.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 16, 2020)

What has struck me about the massive flood of coverage - apart from it being generally exploitative and how many journos are desperate to show their pop culture credentials - is how much reaching there is for a simple narrative, despite how people can be (and frequently are) both victims and culprits. But I don't see that part changing any time soon.


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## Manter (Feb 16, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> We've all got anxiety. Most of us manage to deal with it in a way that doesn't involve bashing anyone's head in.


We still operate under the presumption of innocence in this country, surely?


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 16, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> We've all got anxiety. Most of us manage to deal with it in a way that doesn't involve bashing anyone's head in.


a) innocent until proven guilty! I am assuming we will now never know what actually happened.

b) that is not what I was talking about - I am referring to the fact that this young woman thought that suicide was the only option available to her. She must have been feeling pretty desperate.


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 16, 2020)

What actually was the way she was potrayed in the press? Genuine question as I really have not followed much about her. Did she just commit the heinous crime of being a successful, attractive woman who wore flattering clothes and had boyfriends?


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## existentialist (Feb 16, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> We've all got anxiety. Most of us manage to deal with it in a way that doesn't involve bashing anyone's head in.


I find this kind of argument particularly detestable. It is invariably used as a way to undermine the experience of someone else, usually someone whose experience we can't hope to appreciate or understand.


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## Ax^ (Feb 16, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> What actually was the way she was potrayed in the press? Genuine question as I really have not followed much about her. Did she just commit the heinous crime of being a successful, attractive woman who wore flattering clothes and had boyfriends?



you remember the british press right


they just had a princess run off to canada


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## IC3D (Feb 16, 2020)

I was interested in her before she ended her life cos of my own experience and I was pushed to prosecute my partner for DV cos of multiple instances and ultimately understand the cause was is anxiety I'm still with my partner partly cos our our child but I think that Caroline had issues before fame as my partner has because of her mum's death when she was young. It is human nature to look for a simple answer and I through my own experience have learned we should be more open irrespective of gender or politics. A violent person got to that point for a reason. I still think this shitfest show that is racking up young people topping themselves should just fuck off.


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 16, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> What actually was the way she was potrayed in the press? Genuine question as I really have not followed much about her. Did she just commit the heinous crime of being a successful, attractive woman who wore flattering clothes and had boyfriends?



And the actual crime of violent assault, allegedly.


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 16, 2020)

existentialist said:


> I find this kind of argument particularly detestable. It is invariably used as a way to undermine the experience of someone else, usually someone whose experience we can't hope to appreciate or understand.



I understand and appreciate the experience of being in an abusive relationship. Rehabilitating an abuser after their death seems like a great way to undermine the experience of their victims.


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## existentialist (Feb 16, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> I understand and appreciate the experience of being in an abusive relationship. Rehabilitating an abuser after their death seems like a great way to undermine the experience of their victims.


I don't think you get the point. And I'm not sure you're going to, so I'm going to save my fingers and leave it there


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 16, 2020)

existentialist said:


> I don't think you get the point. And I'm not sure you're going to, so I'm going to save my fingers and leave it there



I get your point I just don't like it. 

Anyway I'm recusing myself from this thread because it's making me feel slightly ill.


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## editor (Feb 16, 2020)

I once had a tiny flavour of what it's like to be on the receiving end of a social media hate storm, and I was shocked by its viciousness and how much it hurt.

I can't imagine what it must be like if you're a public figure and you're getting it from the press and every cunt with an opinion on social media I can see how it might tip someone over the edge.


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 16, 2020)

Deleting because can't be bothered engaging....


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 16, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> you remember the british press right
> 
> 
> they just had a princess run off to canada


I do. And they have so made the right choice.


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## existentialist (Feb 16, 2020)

editor said:


> I once had a tiny flavour of what it's like to be on the receiving end of a social media hate storm, and I was shocked by its viciousness and how much it hurt.
> 
> I can't imagine what it must be like if you're a public figure and you're getting it from the press and every cunt with an opinion on social media I can see how it might tip someone over the edge.


And for me, the fact that the press - either recklessly or deliberately, it doesn't really matter - fuel and encourage this kind of behaviour is a horrible, appalling indictment of our mass media. And, thereby, a significant proportion of us, because if we didn't consume it, it wouldn't pay them to make it.


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 16, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> And the actual crime of violent assault, allegedly.


I am not excusing her of that in any way, shape or form. I am asking how she was generally depicted in the press.


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## Looby (Feb 16, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> What actually was the way she was potrayed in the press? Genuine question as I really have not followed much about her. Did she just commit the heinous crime of being a successful, attractive woman who wore flattering clothes and had boyfriends?


There’s been a huge amount of attention on her relationships for years. Not just Harry Styles but others too. She was engaged to a bloke from The Apprentice and they had big bust ups that were all over the papers and gossip columns. 

It’s been really invasive at times. She’s been portrayed as a party girl, cougar, sad and unlucky in love, a bit stupid for going back to same bloke over and over. The tabloids have been camped outside her house.


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 16, 2020)

Looby said:


> There’s been a huge amount of attention on her relationships for years. Not just Harry Styles but others too. She was engaged to a bloke from The Apprentice and they had big bust ups that were all over the papers and gossip columns.
> 
> It’s been really invasive at times. She’s been portrayed as a party girl, cougar, sad and unlucky in love, a bit stupid for going back to same bloke over and over. The tabloids have been camped outside her house.


Thanks for that.
So she's done nothing that we all haven't done.
DV accusation excepted.
Poor woman.
I am unreasonably affected by this.
I confess to having skin in the game. My mother killed herself and I'll never really understand why.


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## Looby (Feb 16, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Thanks for that.
> So she's done nothing that we all haven't done.
> DV accusation excepted.
> Poor woman.
> ...


I’m sorry Mrs Miggins. 😞 

I feel really sad about her death but I’m not as sure why. I have always liked her, she seemed warm and funny and kind of normal I guess. ETA- I mean like me and my friends and not some untouchable ideal like other celebs. 

It’s so so sad that she felt she had no way out of this.


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## D'wards (Feb 16, 2020)

editor said:


> I once had a tiny flavour of what it's like to be on the receiving end of a social media hate storm, and I was shocked by its viciousness and how much it hurt.
> 
> I can't imagine what it must be like if you're a public figure and you're getting it from the press and every cunt with an opinion on social media I can see how it might tip someone over the edge.


Me too, brought about by Jameela Jamil of all people, after she was going on about other people's privilege and I pointed out she went to Queens College school so knows a thing or two about privilege herself.
She set her flying monkeys on me but I wasn't really that bothered cos I knew I was right, and they were wrong iyswim

But I can totally see how stressful it could be.


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## JuanTwoThree (Feb 16, 2020)

I have no way of knowing how much of this is true in this case but the popular press does generally  start by idolising and building up someone, then stretch their newsworthiness  a bit longer by tearing down the image they themselves  (the press) built up. If the person has enough of a crisis then they are pitied and sanctified by exactly the same bunch of sanctimonious cunts.

I'm  going to assume that this story has some  elements of the pattern until I categorically  get told different. And even then.  I'd not give one solitary fucklet about being mistaken this time.  That the gutter press gets a  bit of my prejudice  in return for all theirs and a gut reaction from me as a result of their repeated pattern of behaviour  is tough shit.


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## existentialist (Feb 16, 2020)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I have no way of knowing how much of this is true in this case but the popular press does generally  start by idolising and building up someone, then stretch their newsworthiness  a bit longer by tearing down the image they themselves  (the press) built up. If the person has enough of a crisis then they are pitied and sanctified by exactly the same bunch of sanctimonious cunts.
> 
> I'm  going to assume that this story has some  elements of the pattern until I categorically  get told different. And even then.  I'd not give one solitary fucklet about being mistaken this time.  That the gutter press gets a  bit of my prejudice  in return for all theirs and a gut reaction from me as a result of their repeated pattern of behaviour  is tough shit.


Except it isn't prejudice. If they didn't do this one, it'd be a shocking variation from past form.


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## JuanTwoThree (Feb 16, 2020)

That's a bit like the Biĺl saying you're in the frame for this one for all the other times. But I don't care.


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## existentialist (Feb 16, 2020)

JuanTwoThree said:


> That's a bit like the Biĺl saying you're in the frame for this one for all the other times. But I don't care.


Well, no, it's not as if we're pretending to do "due process" or anything... 

Fuck 'em. It's probably more like the police having to deal with some slime whose lawyers get him off every single cast iron case using every trick in the book saying "We know he dunnit. You know he dunnit. He knows he dunnit. But we can't prove it. But he dunnit."...


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## scifisam (Feb 17, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Former head of CPS was on lbc this morning. He totally rejected the idea of a "show trail" stating that they will only prosecute if they consider on balance of probability there is enough evidence for there to probably be a guilty verdict. Taking into account the evidence they will be presenting.
> 
> He stated that every not guilty verdict is a black mark against the CPS so would not frivolously make a prosecution on a high profile case like this.



I hope he didn't phrase it exactly like that. Obvs the cps will only prosecute if there's enough evidence for a trial, but this madness it sounds like they decide ahead of time that a person is guilty. Fairly sure they're not supposed to do that.


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## girasol (Feb 17, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Obvious to say, but suicide is such a bad do.
> A permanent solution to a temporary problem.
> Was discussing with a friend who is in the filth. She reckons if found guilty she may have got community service but not custodial.
> The whole thing would have blown over in time



I know, it was really, given some perspective, a really minor thing.  It's so sad that she couldn't see past that.

People who are in the public eye need to be given a big armour of super thick skin because it's fucking tough out there - but I think once you learn the coping mechanisms and learn to ignore the opinions of people who don't know you, you learn to survive.  It's just not for everyone though, some people can't take the pressure.


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## Big Bertha (Feb 17, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Thanks for that.
> So she's done nothing that we all haven't done.
> DV accusation excepted.
> Poor woman.
> ...


She did attack her boyfriend with a lamp while he was asleep.

A lot of people have not done that


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 17, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> She did attack her boyfriend with a lamp while he was asleep.
> 
> A lot of people have not done that


Hence me saying "DV accusation excepted"


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 17, 2020)

We can't really know her thought processes and motivations tbh.


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## D'wards (Feb 17, 2020)

They quoted her friend on the radio this morning who said it was her dread and terror of the upcoming court case that was ruining her mental health


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## two sheds (Feb 17, 2020)

girasol said:


> I know, it was really, given some perspective, a really minor thing.  It's so sad that she couldn't see through that.
> 
> People who are in the public eye need to be given a big armour of super thick skin because it's fucking tough out there - but I think once you learn the coping mechanisms and learn to ignore the opinions of people who don't know you, you learn to survive.  It's just not for everyone though, some people can't take the pressure.



I don't think I'd take the pressure. Once something is splashed across the media it's out there, and people have very long memories. There'll always be some twat who'll make a passing comment to remind you.


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## girasol (Feb 17, 2020)

two sheds said:


> I don't think I'd take the pressure. Once something is splashed across the media it's out there, and people have very long memories. There'll always be some twat who'll make a passing comment to remind you.



One of the many reasons I've never felt the need or want to be famous  She was describing how she felt after winning Strictly and it just shows how fame, money, success don't really bring what you expect...


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## two sheds (Feb 17, 2020)

Too fucking right.


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## ElizabethofYork (Feb 17, 2020)

The stinking hypocrisy of the tabloids this morning is sickening.  Going out of their way to blame the CPS and ITV, rather than looking at their own role in hounding and harassing her.


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 17, 2020)

Trying to blame the CPS seems more than a little bit crazy. The notion of a "show trial" is barking. I'm quite sure the CPS have better things to do than stage show trials for minor celebrities. Surely it would be like any other case brought to court - sufficient evidence to warrant it being prosecuted.


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## existentialist (Feb 17, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Trying to blame the CPS seems more than a little bit crazy. The notion of a "show trial" is barking. I'm quite sure the CPS have better things to do than stage show trials for minor celebrities. Surely it would be like any other case brought to court - sufficient evidence to warrant it being prosecuted.


In any case, better a "show trial" than a kangaroo court, such as the tabloids are so fond of...


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## Rushy (Feb 17, 2020)

scifisam said:


> I hope he didn't phrase it exactly like that. Obvs the cps will only prosecute if there's enough evidence for a trial, but this madness it sounds like they decide ahead of time that a person is guilty. Fairly sure they're not supposed to do that.


They are supposed to do pretty much exactly that. The CPS are the prosecutor. They essentially take the place of the victim and the victim themselves is no more than a witness. It is their duty to try as hard as they can to convince the judge / jury of the defendant's guilt. So they look at the evidence beforehand and if they don't feel that it allows them to present a strong case, they don't take it on. That's why they have a very high success rate somewhere in the 80%s.


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## Big Bertha (Feb 17, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Hence me saying "DV accusation excepted"


Sorry didn’t see/understand abbreviation at the time!


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 17, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> Sorry didn’t see/understand abbreviation at the time!


No worries


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## Big Bertha (Feb 17, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> No worries


I remember thinking it must be something to do with DVLA!


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 17, 2020)

ElizabethofYork said:


> The stinking hypocrisy of the tabloids this morning is sickening.  Going out of their way to blame the CPS and ITV, rather than looking at their own role in hounding and harassing her.



The whole blame shifting is grim. The way it is now being framed as down to individual twitter users or people on forums ('trolls') and how it's the public responsible for demanding content from the professional media which is intrusive and cruel. Not that it's the tabloids and established media which creates this demand and this perception that anybody vaguely famous is fair game, which in turn creates the culture on twitter and forums and below the line comments etc. Pricks.


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## scifisam (Feb 17, 2020)

Rushy said:


> They are supposed to do pretty much exactly that. The CPS are the prosecutor. They essentially take the place of the victim and the victim themselves is no more than a witness. It is their duty to try as hard as they can to convince the judge / jury of the defendant's guilt. So they look at the evidence beforehand and if they don't feel that it allows them to present a strong case, they don't take it on. That's why they have a very high success rate somewhere in the 80%s.



That's rather different to actually ascertaining guilt before the trial, which is what it sounded like.


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## Treacle Toes (Feb 17, 2020)

scifisam said:


> That's rather different to actually ascertaining guilt before the trial, which is what it sounded like.



Wasn't the 'guilt' part of it informed by her partner's 999 call and statement to police? I know he withdrew it but at the same time I also know if it were a female victim most people would assume she withdrew as part of the landscape of DV.... The cps obviously thought they had enough evidence to investigate, that doesn't mean she would have got a custodial sentence.


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## scifisam (Feb 17, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> Wasn't the 'guilt' part of it informed by her partner's 999 call and statement to police? I know he withdrew it but at the same time I also know if it were a female victim most people would assume she withdrew as part of the landscape of DV.... The cps obviously thought they had enough evidence to investigate, that doesn't mean she would have got a custodial sentence.



Thing is, although he might have withdrawn his statement due to ongoing domestic violence, he might also have withdrawn it because it was being misrepresented - which is what he claims. It's difficult, really, because although we know that DV victims often back up their attackers, it's also wrong to tell the supposed victim they're lying, especially in a case like this where it never went to trial.

One of the things he claims is that photos of him covered in blood were completely fake. Though I can't find a link for that right now because all the results coming up on google are more general today.

If the roles were gender-reversed I'm pretty sure there would be sympathy for the male alleged attacker too. There's plenty of sympathy for male convicted attackers without mental health problems, even. Geoff Boycott, the cricketer convicted of domestic assault, was knighted the day before Caroline Flack died.


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## equationgirl (Feb 17, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> She did attack her boyfriend with a lamp while he was asleep.
> 
> A lot of people have not done that


Allegedly attacked him. She was not convicted of any crime before she died.


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## Avidya (Feb 18, 2020)

I wrote a response on Instagram several weeks ago criticising the morality of one of her quotes. I said basically why would you write this, then go onto hit him in his sleep.

I said maybe this could be a case of demonic possession.

Now she tragically killed herself and this has blown up.

I completely regret what I wrote. A bit late now. I don't know what part I actually had, however I am horrified beyond description, and feel a sense of responsibility.
There is not an hour that goes by that I don't think about it.

What I did was very wrong folks. It was just an opinion I offered, however I do not know her, or her boyfriend.

The fact it was extreme led me to comment.

To the people I have spoken to who attempted to console, or reason with me, my conscience is intact. What a silly thing to do, weigh in on the morality. Directly I made no threats or suggestion to her. I am getting help with coming to terms with it, and feel I should do mental health campaigning myself.

I have adult ADHD and am on the waiting list at the Maudsley for counselling therapy.

My take home from this is to never criticise an event or person again, which I do not know the real facts of. I have faced some animosity and rightly so. Now i'm in a bad place, I've expressed remorse and learned my lesson, as I have a history mental health struggles myself, and was on antidepressants for years. I will face up to my mistake.

I have been on this forum before, along time in the past, and know people will be real with me, and accept this.


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## Avidya (Feb 18, 2020)

My lesson for myself and others, just don't comment on the morality of anyone, but offer a constructive suggestion.


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## two sheds (Feb 18, 2020)

Totally with you on that. And so easy to make a comment not understanding how it will be taken. 

Brave post. Hope you stay on the site.


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## Wilf (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> The whole blame shifting is grim. The way it is now being framed as down to individual twitter users or people on forums ('trolls') and how it's the public responsible for demanding content from the professional media which is intrusive and cruel. Not that it's the tabloids and established media which creates this demand and this perception that anybody vaguely famous is fair game, which in turn creates the culture on twitter and forums and below the line comments etc. Pricks.


I'd love to see fly on the wall testimony as to the instructions given out by editors and the like to the journos who doorstepped her, the feverish hawking round of photos, all the attempts to get her friends/fellow TV people to dish the dirt, tell a lie and all the rest. We all _know _what they did, but I'd like to see _that _splashed across the papers.


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## Avidya (Feb 18, 2020)

I'm nearly 40 myself, so around Caroline's age. Thank you I will do. Just sad all round, and an experience points to myself to improve.


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## two sheds (Feb 18, 2020)

Is good - but I think the incessant stories from the Mail and Sun and the rest (with the aim of boosting readership and making profit) are the real culprits here. She wouldn't have even have seen your post - really don't beat yourself up too much and learn but move on.


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## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2020)

two sheds said:


> She wouldn't have even have seen your post - really don't beat yourself up too much and learn but move on.



I’d second this


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## two sheds (Feb 18, 2020)

It is the thing about 'people of good will' - they feel guilty about things they've done and then regret.


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## Edie (Feb 18, 2020)

Avidya said:


> I wrote a response on Instagram several weeks ago criticising the morality of one of her quotes. I said basically why would you write this, then go onto hit him in his sleep.
> 
> I said maybe this could be a case of demonic possession.
> 
> ...


Fair enough but I wouldn’t ascribe too much importance to your one comment. She had much more significant problems, like an impending court case and the loss of her career. So give yourself a break. Personally, I’d never send a personal message to anyone I didn’t know anyway. Maybe stick with that rule?


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## two sheds (Feb 18, 2020)

Edie said:


> Fair enough but I wouldn’t ascribe too much importance to your one comment. She had much more significant problems, like an impending court case and the loss of her career.



Yes that.



> So give yourself a break. Personally, I’d never send a personal message to anyone I didn’t know anyway. Maybe stick with that rule?



But that's the nature of social media, including urban. We hardly actually know any of the people on here - all of us make comments about other people, so I'd say just be sensitive about the feelings of the person on the end of the comment.


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## Clair De Lune (Feb 18, 2020)

Avidya has seen something within their experience they wish to improve upon. That's to be encouraged, not clouded by platitude fog.


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## two sheds (Feb 18, 2020)

I'm off to bed. Apologies to Avidya if I came across like that.


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## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2020)

Clair De Lune said:


> clouded by platitude fog.



That’s not what’s happening here. People are offering support (however clumsy you make think they’re being)


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## scifisam (Feb 18, 2020)

Wilf said:


> I'd love to see fly on the wall testimony as to the instructions given out by editors and the like to the journos who doorstepped her, the feverish hawking round of photos, all the attempts to get her friends/fellow TV people to dish the dirt, tell a lie and all the rest. We all _know _what they did, but I'd like to see _that _splashed across the papers.



There was a quote from someone I don't recall when reading about the Leveson enquiry, something about paparazzi chasing her. They got away with it because they were journalists, but it still meant that she was a woman being chased down streets in the dark by a dozen men who would not stop. Put like that, it's terrifying.


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## maomao (Feb 18, 2020)

scifisam said:


> There was a quote from someone I don't recall when reading about the Leveson enquiry, something about paparazzi chasing her. They got away with it because they were journalists, but it still meant that she was a woman being chased down streets in the dark by a dozen men who would not stop. Put like that, it's terrifying.


It's disgusting. In my job I've been involved (from a distance) in smuggling people out of their own homes when there are papparazzi in front of their house. I get hanging around the west end to catch celebs stumbling out of clubs but I really don't see how hanging around in front of people's houses with cameras isn't some sort of illegal harrasment.


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## Avidya (Feb 18, 2020)

That is ok, and I am pushing on. People have been helpful to me here. I'm going to get the help I need, as I should have got this before the event too.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 18, 2020)

Good piece by Joan Smith (who I heard on Woman's Hour yesterday and was talking sense there too) on the DV case and media misogyny:









						Caroline Flack’s tragic death has rightly put the tabloids back in the dock | Joan Smith
					

It was right that the TV presenter’s domestic abuse case was sent to trial, says Joan Smith, chair of the Mayor of London’s Violence Against Women and Girls Board




					www.theguardian.com


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## Edie (Feb 18, 2020)

Clair De Lune said:


> Avidya has seen something within their experience they wish to improve upon. That's to be encouraged, not clouded by platitude fog.


Bit of perspective was required I thought.


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## nogojones (Feb 18, 2020)

I've never seen Love Island and never heard of CF until her death, so my comments here are likely to be pretty uninformed.


The show seems to be one of these reality shows where all the contestants are harshly judged about the most intimate aspects of their life and personalities by millions of people, alongside coverage of their onscreen and off-screen lives by the tabloid press, so much so that this is the third suicide linked to the show (I think this is correct).

It's fucking disgraceful that this exploitative shit continues to be broadcast and the producers and marketers should be pilloried in the streets, sued ‘til they're living in a bedsit and banned from the media.

I'm unsure of CF's depth of involvement in the production and direction of the show, but she seems to have become a victim of the beast she helped foster.


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## two sheds (Feb 18, 2020)

Clair De Lune said:


> Avidya has seen something within their experience they wish to improve upon. That's to be encouraged, not clouded by platitude fog.



What would you, pinkmonkey and maomao have said/not said?


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## Chilli.s (Feb 18, 2020)

Avidya said:


> That is ok, and I am pushing on. People have been helpful to me here. I'm going to get the help I need, as I should have got this before the event too.



Don't beat yourself up over this.

She was in a profession that should have done more for her, her agent should have been more attentive to her state, not you. Your comments seem harsh today but when you wrote them could have been seen as quite a funny joke.

Try not to worry and seek the help you need.


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## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2020)

Whatever you did or didn’t do Avidya, you’re not to blame for Caroline Flack’s death. 

Be kind to yourself.


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

If there is a pile on over your comments on insta then the people doing that are engaging in exactly the same behaviour anyway. Can't put the internet back in a box. What can be challenged and changed is the culture and environment created by media generally and tabloid press at forefront which vilifies people - famous and otherwise - for clicks, circulation, and revenue


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## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Can’t put the internet back in a box.



This.


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## Clair De Lune (Feb 18, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> That’s not what’s happening here. People are offering support (however clumsy you make think they’re being)


Yeah fair enough. It just felt a little like sticking plasters where there weren't cuts. Shame and remorse feel unpleasant to us but can be a vehicle to change. I think avidya was doing that and that's the part I'd encourage personally.
And if anyone was clumsy here it was me with my wording. Apologies.


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 18, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Good piece by Joan Smith (who I heard on Woman's Hour yesterday and was talking sense there too) on the DV case and media misogyny:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The last sentence of that article:

“Misogyny is still the lens through which well-known women are viewed and Caroline Flack, tragically, is the latest in a long line of victims.”


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## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2020)

The whole thing is fucked up. A lot of stuff is I guess.


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## Avidya (Feb 18, 2020)

I broke down today in my local pharmacy coming back from the V&A with mum. The pharmacy knows me well here.

I used to work in dispensing at another pharmacy however.

Now I am analysing how guilt is generated in brain regions. Tonight I have a psychiatric team coming. Now it's just fast thoughts and constant dread. Doc Tried to tell me I had no bearing on an adult decision.

I wrote a response to her quote "in a world where you can be anything, be kind". There was nothing active there for 2 months.


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## Avidya (Feb 18, 2020)

I realise I'm trying to estimate what peoples thoughts are even. I conceive a day when I can get back to working out in brixton normally.

On thing I agree on with many people is the newspapers and some media can be monstrous. Alternative media is quite different.


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## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2020)

Avidya said:


> Alternative media is quite different.



Not trying to be a dick, but I have no faith in the kindness of alternative media. 

We’re living in maddening times. I think people are by and large doing their best to manage. 

I respect your courage fwiw Avidya


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## existentialist (Feb 18, 2020)

Wilf said:


> I'd love to see fly on the wall testimony as to the instructions given out by editors and the like to the journos who doorstepped her, the feverish hawking round of photos, all the attempts to get her friends/fellow TV people to dish the dirt, tell a lie and all the rest. We all _know _what they did, but I'd like to see _that _splashed across the papers.


I expect it's all done on a nod and a wink. Lots of plausible deniability - editors don't want to know _how_ you get the story, just get the story and don't get caught. Phone tapping, anyone?


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## Manter (Feb 18, 2020)

Wilf said:


> I'd love to see fly on the wall testimony as to the instructions given out by editors and the like to the journos who doorstepped her, the feverish hawking round of photos, all the attempts to get her friends/fellow TV people to dish the dirt, tell a lie and all the rest. We all _know _what they did, but I'd like to see _that _splashed across the papers.


They slashed her tires to get a reaction from her, among other things


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 18, 2020)

Guineveretoo said:


> The last sentence of that article:
> 
> “Misogyny is still the lens through which well-known women are viewed and Caroline Flack, tragically, is the latest in a long line of victims.”


She didn't sound hopeful that that would change on WH either. Paraphrasing, "the outrage about this lasts about ten minutes doesn't it and then it's back to normal".

There are multiple social issues here which all come together to produce this sort of situation, and which all seem to go mostly unchallenged in favour of easy targets like "ooh social media is bad", platitudes about how we should be all nicer (like there's a shared and equal responsibility here) and the Sun having the sheer cheek to blame the CPS.


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## D'wards (Feb 20, 2020)

This is Laura Whitmore (basically the Irish Caroline Flack for the majority or U75 folk who have the understanding of pop culture of a high court judge).
She was filmed this paparazzi and posted it on twitter, and the pile on has begun in earnest. 
I'm a little conflicted, cos we all know photographers can be scum, but isn't she encouraging the online bullying behaviour that we are supposed to be abandoning?


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## existentialist (Feb 20, 2020)

It's about time Liverpool's Sun boycott went national, and extended to all the tabloids...


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## Thora (Feb 20, 2020)

So from reading her/her boyfriend's stories, it seems like all the blood at the scene was from her cutting her own wrist, and the injury to her boyfriend was a scratch on his head that they say was accidental.

The prospect of police bodycam video of her hugely distressed and bleeding being shown in court was what she was most worried about   Can just imagine how it would have been mocked and picked over.


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## AverageJoe (Feb 20, 2020)

Ed: I've removed the content as I've received several reports, one of which read: "Really offensive. Was a reply to someone that appears vulnerable and made an honest and genuine post about remorse which did not appear to be for personal gain. "


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## kebabking (Feb 20, 2020)

AverageJoe said:


> -



I have some sympathy with this view - all the 'be nice' shit on SM makes me vommit, most of it being from people who happily post vile shit every day.

Don't 'be nice', just fucking do something with your life you sad cunts...


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## Rushy (Feb 22, 2020)

Thora said:


> So from reading her/her boyfriend's stories, it seems like all the blood at the scene was from her cutting her own wrist, and the injury to her boyfriend was a scratch on his head that they say was accidental.


This would doubtless have made the job of the court even trickier. The court would have had to balance their later evidence (that she accidentally scratched him) with the police recording allegedly taken at the time of the event of her boyfriend telling them that she had tried to kill him (by hitting him on the head with a lamp whilst he was asleep).


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## D'wards (Feb 24, 2020)

It's all getting very ugly between Piers Morgan and Jameela Jamil.

Jamil did one of those #bekind type posts mentioning the abuse Flack got.
A lot of people pointed out that Jamil herself had publicly criticised a show Flack had lined up called The Surjury, entered into a twitter spat, and the show was ultimately cancelled anyway.

Morgan yesterday published private messages to him from Flack saying the hatred she was getting from Jamil was upsetting her.

No one comes out of this looking good...









						Jameela Jamil calls Piers Morgan ‘bullying parasite’ for sharing private Caroline Flack messages
					

‘Out of respect for Caroline, I will not allow this conversation to carry on in which she can’t respond or speak for herself,’ writes actor




					www.independent.co.uk


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## Edie (Feb 24, 2020)

Christ this stuff is embarrassing. These people have no dignity. Just stop.


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 24, 2020)

D'wards said:


> It's all getting very ugly between Piers Morgan and Jameela Jamil.
> 
> Jamil did one of those #bekind type posts mentioning the abuse Flack got.
> A lot of people pointed out that Jamil herself had publicly criticised a show Flack had lined up called The Surjury, entered into a twitter spat, and the show was ultimately cancelled anyway.
> ...



I've never even heard of Jameela Jamil. I wish I could say the same about Morgan. 

So, ok in the eyes of Morgan she seems to be guilty of critiquing a show Flack was hosting (I note not Flack herself). If so, big deal. That's hardly bulling. Flack seemed to be the one going a bit far by asking Morgan for 'pictures' - which presuming she means something embarrassing (why else go to Morgan?), seems pretty shitty.


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## Shechemite (Feb 24, 2020)

Which is why Morgan is doing what he’s doing 

keeping the churn going

they can all fuck off


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## D'wards (Mar 3, 2020)

A petition with 850k signatures handed in to 10 Downing Street for the press to not be allowed to bully anyone to death anymore.

It'll do as much good as t* * * on a * * *


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