# 24 Hours in Police Custody



## passenger (Sep 29, 2014)

Looks wicked any one else watching ?
 post number 5000 for me


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## BandWagon (Sep 29, 2014)

Do you get a choice of cell-mate?


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## passenger (Sep 29, 2014)

no


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## BandWagon (Sep 29, 2014)

Don't fancy that then. You don't know who you'd get.


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## butchersapron (Sep 29, 2014)

passenger said:


> Looks wicked any one else watching ?
> post number 5000 for me


Depends if you're on watch. Every now and then if you pretend to have panic attacks. So, every 3 hours.


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## passenger (Sep 29, 2014)

your mum can visit  but, can`t come into your cell


BandWagon said:


> Don't fancy that then. You don't know who you'd get.


your mum can visit,  but can`t come into your cell


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## BandWagon (Sep 29, 2014)

It could be someone who resembles Ronnie Kray. Only worse.


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## BandWagon (Sep 29, 2014)

How many people here have ever spent the night in jail? Not me, that's for certain.


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## passenger (Sep 29, 2014)

no coment


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## BandWagon (Sep 29, 2014)

You're taking the 5th?


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## sim667 (Sep 29, 2014)

There needs to be a "no comment" drinking game


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## Dowie (Sep 29, 2014)

Watched this by chance... was really good. Certainly seems that the way to go in police interviews is always 'no comment'.

Unfortunately it does seem like the guy they were interviewing quite likely was involved in conspiracy to murder and got away with it.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 29, 2014)

Always no comment all the way at least until you get your brief sorted and get your shit together.

Always


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## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

BandWagon said:


> How many people here have ever spent the night in jail? Not me, that's for certain.


I have. Quite a few in fact.

*well, police cells.


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## The39thStep (Sep 30, 2014)

BandWagon said:


> How many people here have ever spent the night in jail? Not me, that's for certain.



Unfortunately several times


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## Ax^ (Sep 30, 2014)

It would not be jail it would be in police custody 

Which is never nice 

:Hmm:


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## albionism (Sep 30, 2014)

Jail, no. Police custody several times.


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## sim667 (Sep 30, 2014)

Dowie said:


> Unfortunately it does seem like the guy they were interviewing quite likely was involved in conspiracy to murder and got away with it.


 
I really though they had him bang to rights, be it seemed like he totally rolled on his half brother and got off on the technicalities of reasonable doubt. Thats how the system works I guess.


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## bmd (Sep 30, 2014)

BandWagon said:


> How many people here have ever spent the night in jail? Not me, that's for certain.



I was once banged up with a bloke with paranoid schizophrenia, doing 7 years for tie ups. He couldn't face life without a regular supply of drugs, had tried to get his meds changed to something more interesting and didn't tell me. I got back to the pad one night and we were banged up, all the screws went home and there's just the night screw. He doesn't have keys to the pads.

About an hour later my padmate stands up from the bottom bunk with a blade and tells me that he has worked it all out: I'm in league with the governor and this is all a game so he's got to kill me in order to get the drugs he wants. 

We're in a 6ft wide by 10ft long cell, with a double bunk, a toilet, sink and a cupboard each. So there's not much standing room. He's been taking steroids on the out and although he's not as tall as me he's definitely wider. There's a button on the wall behind him and if I press that then a buzzer goes off and the night clocky comes. But it's not a great idea in prison to broadcast you're a grass.

So he wants to kill me and I'm trying to talk him down in between keeping him away from me. He swings between completely understanding what I'm saying to believing I'm playing a game. It turns into a bizarre merry-go-round of me convincing him he's wrong and then thinking it's over and then him rearing up again after a bout of introspection.

Eventually the night clocky comes round, hears us fighting and opens the flap on the door, sees what's going on, closes it and fucks off. Half an hour later the screws turn up in riot gear, steam into us both and take him away. He was shipped out the next day and I heard a few weeks later that he'd killed himself after taking a screw hostage.

Helluva night in jail.


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## Gingerman (Sep 30, 2014)

Thought it was quite gripping,that copper was very David Brentish was'nt he ?,the suspect seemed to have lost a lot of his impressive muscle bulk while in prison,couldn't believe the difference in size when he was interviewed at the end of the program.


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## Dowie (Oct 1, 2014)

The one who'd come back from his Vegas holiday? Yeah he was a bit Brentish... seemed quite friendly though.

Had watched Louis Theroux's Miami Jails documentary the night before... bit of a contrast between a US Jail and UK custody suite... conspiracy to murder suspect driven to the UK police station with no cuffs on, lead politely to his cell and then asked what he'd like for breakfast - cooked breakfast or cereal... 

Then again the police were no doubt on their best behaviour with all the cameras about... presumably they also picked that particular case because they thought they were sure to get a conviction too.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2014)

what nick was doing a cooked breakfast? luxury! its a brake bros microwave abomination normally- tiny portion of.


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## mr steev (Oct 1, 2014)

Dowie said:


> Had watched Louis Theroux's Miami Jails documentary the night before... bit of a contrast between a US Jail and UK custody suite... conspiracy to murder suspect driven to the UK police station with no cuffs on, lead politely to his cell and then asked what he'd like for breakfast - cooked breakfast or cereal...



The pogram was way off the mark from my own brief experience of police custody. Handcuffed and shoved around and sarcastic passive agressive police. I can't remember been given breakfast in the cells but literally had a ham cob thrown at me in the holding cells at the courts. When I sent it back as I was veggie (as they knew) it was thrown back a few minutes later... the same cob but with the ham took out.
FWIW, after being remanded then on ridiculous bail terms for 4 months all charges were dropped on account of me being completely innocent and them having no evidence
They also treated my law abiding father with the same contempt when he posted my bail. His opinions of them are very different these days


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## Dowie (Oct 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> what nick was doing a cooked breakfast? luxury! its a brake bros microwave abomination normally- tiny portion of.



It was Bedfordshire Police - I think the police station featured was in Luton... was a good documentary: the interviews the way the suspect's behaviour changed as they brought out more evidence. Worth a watch on 4OD - though like I said I'm sure they were on their best behaviour for the cameras - though you'll spot the David Brent character fairly quickly.


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## Dan U (Oct 1, 2014)

some wider fall out from this case i saw linked elsewhere

http://www.easterneye.eu/news/uk-ne...after+interfering+with+murder+plot+trial/3915


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## Dan U (Oct 1, 2014)

mr steev said:


> The pogram was way off the mark from my own brief experience of police custody. Handcuffed and shoved around and sarcastic passive agressive police. I can't remember been given breakfast in the cells but literally had a ham cob thrown at me in the holding cells at the courts. When I sent it back as I was veggie (as they knew) it was thrown back a few minutes later... the same cob but with the ham took out.
> FWIW, after being remanded then on ridiculous bail terms for 4 months all charges were dropped on account of me being completely innocent and them having no evidence
> They also treated my law abiding father with the same contempt when he posted my bail. His opinions of them are very different these days



the couple of times i was nicked by uniform, this was my experience.

when i got nicked by CID as some kind of consolation prize in a drugs operation (I was very much wrong place, wrong time and they knew that) they were totally different, nice as pie and very professional.


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## Dowie (Oct 1, 2014)

Dan U said:


> some wider fall out from this case i saw linked elsewhere
> 
> http://www.easterneye.eu/news/uk-news/Deputy PCC forced to quit after interfering with murder plot trial/3915



yikes - she is the woman at the center of this, the one who's family spurned the marriage offer of the suspect's brother in law leading to her fiance being shot.... and she is the deputy police and crime commissioner?????

and to think one of the detectives referred to her as 'some bit of skirt' in the interview....

edit... ah I'm clearly misread the article... tis her cousin who was the 'bit of skirt' & giving evidence


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## peterkro (Oct 1, 2014)

Fairly obviously if you've been nicked it is somewhat different from what the tele program showed but the geezer with the muscles did a master class in how to do an interview,I'd guess guilty as sin but as much as they blathered on you can't trace a cell phone to a house not even to a street.


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## wiskey (Oct 1, 2014)

Bloke who made it was on the radio the other day. He said they got good footage because police stations are already so full of cameras everyone ignored them. 

I thought it was interesting. 

The bloke was indeed very David Brent


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## Cpatain Rbubish (Oct 1, 2014)

Also, no comment.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 1, 2014)

BandWagon said:


> How many people here have ever spent the night in jail? Not me, that's for certain.



Spent a few nights in the plod cells. In each case the actual being locked in a cell bit was a walk in the park compared to the circumstances that led to me being there in the first place, but I've heard some horror stories. If you're in the cells and you have any kind of injury or medical need, you're probably not going to enjoy yourself much.

A friend of mine recently spent 12 hours locked up, much of it spent pleading for a doctor and vomiting from the concussion her arresting filth had given her. She was released when the pigs realised they had nothing to charge her with, presumably having spent the night flicking through the law books to find the bit where it says that 'being a black person' is a crime.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 1, 2014)

On a lighter note, one time the turnkey banged on my door and told me to stop singing. I'd been caterwauling my way through the complete works of Simon and Garfunkel in an attempt to stave off the boredom.

Naturally I seized on this chance to use the immortal line, 'what are you gonna do, arrest me?' before launching into 'Keep the Customer Satisfied':

_'Gee but it's great to be back home...'_


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## Matysik (Oct 6, 2014)

peterkro said:


> but as much as they blathered on you can't trace a cell phone to a house not even to a street.



This was driving me mad when I was watching it. They kept saying the phone was used at his house when they can't trace it to a house.


I spent 8 months on remand last year before being found not guilty. The police officers reminded me of the ones who interviewed me in that they had already made their minds up and were very smug. Will never forget the police officers face when I got the not guilty!


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## spliff (Oct 6, 2014)

I've listened to hundreds of hours of police station interviews under caution and was always amazed about how easily people slipped out of the 'no comment' advice. After all the questions about the alleged crime being successfully 'no commented' the cops say something like "And have you been married to Susan for eight years?" and the accused replies that her name is Sarah or that it's been eleven years and suddenly they're in a conversation. And it all breaks down.


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## 5t3IIa (Oct 6, 2014)

On tonight at 9. Domestic abuse and harassment  

Hope there's less no commenting this time. I want to see someone talk themselves into/out of the shit


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 6, 2014)

spliff said:


> I've listened to hundreds of hours of police station interviews under caution and was always amazed about how easily people slipped out of the 'no comment' advice. After all the questions about the alleged crime being successfully 'no commented' the cops say something like "And have you been married to Susan for eight years?" and the accused replies that her name is Sarah or that it's been eleven years and suddenly they're in a conversation. And it all breaks down.



It's fucking dry saying 'no comment' over and over again for long periods of time. The cops know this all too well and they have their little tricks. You have to sit there and keep reminding yourself that anything they say, any question they ask, is all part of the stitch up. Then it can be quite fun to watch them mentally going through their 'big book of ways to get people to talk in an interview' with increasing annoyance.


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## Part 2 (Oct 6, 2014)

Looking interesting tonight....'What would Tom Cruise do?'


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## Part 2 (Oct 6, 2014)

Copper was shit at climbing that fence!


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## wiskey (Oct 6, 2014)

When people ring 999 I can see where they are to about 3 metres (the newer the phone the better the location).


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## Betsy (Oct 6, 2014)

Dowie said:


> Watched this by chance... was really good. Certainly seems that the way to go in police interviews is always 'no comment'.
> 
> *Unfortunately it does seem like the guy they were interviewing quite likely was involved in conspiracy to murder and got away with it.*


Agreed.. I gasped when it was said that he was innocent.


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## Matysik (Oct 6, 2014)

All I know was in my case they could only trace my phone to a fairly large area. I did question why as I thought it would have helped me. Their response was that's all the information they could get.


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## Dan U (Oct 6, 2014)

All these investigating officers, are they 'almost police' like PCSOs?


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## Part 2 (Oct 6, 2014)

She does look a bit Nicole Kidman!


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## Dan U (Oct 6, 2014)

I like the way breaking in to your exes house and getting your tits out was styled out as totally normal. 

Respect that.


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## wiskey (Oct 6, 2014)

Matysik said:


> All I know was in my case they could only trace my phone to a fairly large area. I did question why as I thought it would have helped me. Their response was that's all the information they could get.


Well I know they can do more in other circumstances.


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## wiskey (Oct 6, 2014)

This bloke is a nasty piece of work


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## Dan U (Oct 6, 2014)

Yeah show took a turn didn't it


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## 5t3IIa (Oct 6, 2014)

That wasn't as good as the first one  The plot was rubbish and the casting was half-arsed. No tension. Agree about the tits though.


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## editor (Oct 6, 2014)

That window climbing "you know you want it" grinning lady was a bit on the scary side and the girlfriend beating bloke was a fucking beast.


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## Matysik (Oct 6, 2014)

I thought this one was pretty boring.

That bloke has a lot of issues!!


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## Matysik (Oct 6, 2014)

wiskey said:


> Well I know they can do more in other circumstances.



I think it might be easier on new phones like iphones. The police couldn't even get my texts that \I had deleted while they can do that on iphones


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## Gingerman (Oct 7, 2014)

Chip Barm said:


> Looking interesting tonight....'What would Tom Cruise do?'


 
Thought she was quite attractive, but that wore off as soon as she started with the Tom Cruise bollocks.


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## Gingerman (Oct 7, 2014)

wiskey said:


> This bloke is a nasty piece of work


A right charmer,what a 'catch' eh?'......


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## ddraig (Oct 20, 2014)

E2a tonight's drug episode.

Shit! What a mare!! Imagine he was fucked losing that much 
Twat


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## Part 2 (Oct 20, 2014)

It's like dumb criminals tonight! The meat shoplifting attempt was a joke aswell.


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## Supine (Oct 20, 2014)

Having a neck tattoo is a bad plan if your a crim!


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## Betsy (Oct 20, 2014)

I hope Darren stays clean...


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## 8115 (Oct 20, 2014)

That drug dealing kid actually made me feel really sad.


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## sim667 (Oct 21, 2014)

Matysik said:


> I think it might be easier on new phones like iphones. The police couldn't even get my texts that \I had deleted while they can do that on iphones



Ive seen some news stories about iPhones being wiped whilst in police evidence holding recently though


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## bmd (Oct 21, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Ive seen some news stories about iPhones being wiped whilst in police evidence holding recently though



They turn them off and take out the sim card now so you can't do that.


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## Celt (Oct 21, 2014)

just watched the last one with the drug use and abuse, sobering stuff.

and yes I spent a night in the cells but its 20 years ago.

Its been really interesting.


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## bmd (Oct 22, 2014)

How unlucky do you have to be to lose that much coke? He had one of those faces that spoke of a lifetime of misfortune.


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## Part 2 (Oct 22, 2014)

bmd said:


> How unlucky do you have to be to lose that much coke? He had one of those faces that spoke of a lifetime of misfortune.



And you almost expect there's more to come. Such a babyface.

I don't think they said how old he was but he was so frank when they interviewed him about not being ready to address his drug use and his saying that at school he was seen as a 'drug addict' felt almost like saying..'that's what I am'


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## bmd (Oct 22, 2014)

Chip Barm said:


> And you almost expect there's more to come. Such a babyface.
> 
> I don't think they said how old he was but he was so frank when they interviewed him about not being ready to address his drug use and his saying that at school he was seen as a 'drug addict' felt almost like saying..'that's what I am'



Was that him? I thought it was two different people. I wondered where he came into it all.


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## passenger (Nov 17, 2014)

bump 10 mins in


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## sim667 (Nov 18, 2014)

bmd said:


> How unlucky do you have to be to lose that much coke? He had one of those faces that spoke of a lifetime of misfortune.


 
Didn't he mention he was using a lot of ketamin?

If you're using k regularly your brain just goes a bit haywire and you do start doing silly stuff.......


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## passenger (Aug 10, 2015)

*bump* te bump


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## Part 2 (Aug 10, 2015)

Last weeks paedo one was good


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## porp (Aug 12, 2015)

I hate hate hate the Channel 4 police / emergency services documentaries. 24 hrs here, there and everywhere. What I hate most of all is the constructed persona of the put-upon world weary-yet-tolerant copper/doctor/paramedic 'clearing up' after society's mess -  the not so implicit political content being that the illness/upset/violence of the drunk/drugged/poor are linked to a breakdown in the social order. Not a politically engineered and designed impoverishment - no, never that. Just a mysterious change that magically appeared from nowhere across our cities since the 80s and has led to these outcomes that put-upon yet patient copper 'has to' clean up. But never mind, at least he/she gains the right to judge and condemn the terminally poor, unloved and unlucky -  and on TV too. You know what PC Shrug Shoulders? Fuck off back to your suburb with your M&S meal deal for £10, or engage with what's in front of your eyes. Seriously, to think how challenging TV documentary could be to the police narrative up to the 80s, and how desperately arse licky it is now


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## Artaxerxes (Aug 12, 2015)

I've no quibble with the A&E one, its good stuff.

The police custody one could be more hard hitting but it does what it says on the tin, its not an aggressive critique at all mind (what is these days though?)


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 20, 2018)

Last night's one was by far the best one of these. BY MILES. Get on to CatchUp, you will not be disappointed


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Last night's one was by far the best one of these. BY MILES. Get on to CatchUp, you will not be disappointed


fucking LOVED it!!  classic
what a fucking dickhead eh


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## moomoo (Feb 20, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Last night's one was by far the best one of these. BY MILES. Get on to CatchUp, you will not be disappointed



Is this back on? I didn’t know! What channel?


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

CH4


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

24 Hours in Police Custody - All 4


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## Spymaster (Feb 20, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Last night's one was by far the best one of these. BY MILES. Get on to CatchUp, you will not be disappointed


The fucker should have got 10 years. 

The forensic examinations of his computers and phones was pretty scary though. Pretty much everything you ever do on either is going to be permanently available to plod and other agencies.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

The tension! The twists!!

There was that DCI (?) doing a talking head saying “The question I most wanted to ask was ‘why??’” and I just thought “Oh, blahblah people always say that. They always want to know WHY. It’s not usually much beyond people being greedy, or angry or mad. Very profound, Mr. Policeman ” But actually we didn’t find out why at all  Wtf was that geezer thinking? He literally looped a crime directly back to himself...and for what? No real debts, no gambling probs(?), nothing to do with his partner or family. I mean..._why_??


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

and they were all going on about how good a fucking copper he was even after arrested


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## Spymaster (Feb 20, 2018)

5t3IIa said:


> The tension! The twists!!
> 
> There was that DCI (?) doing a talking head saying “The question I most wanted to ask was ‘why??’” and I just though my “Oh, blahblah people always say that. They always want to know WHY. It’s not usually much beyond people being greedy, or angry or mad. Very profound, Mr. Policeman ” But actually we didn’t find out why at all  Wtf was that geezer thinking? He literally looped a crime directly back to himself...and for what? No real debts, no gambling probs(?), nothing to do with his partner or family. I mean..._why_??


He should have been given an extra 5 years for sheer incompetence. Using the plod computer , checking out the car park in plain sight of video surveillance  .


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

leaving a copy of the ransom note in the bin!!! 
and copies of the photos in the bedroom  
worra prick


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

I’d also hope they’d have made it clear whether he’d got away with it before and if that was really the first time. Like, the Loop of Ineptitude was so perfect...flawless. But that was apparently it. That was his big score  Every ad break had a babble of speculation our end - that woman wouldn’t be in business long if that’s her caper! How much money has whoever made doing this!! A handful of successes is tens of thousands of pounds!!! How far is the wheelchair bloke’s jaw going to drop when the gossip hits him??!


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> leaving a copy of the ransom note in the bin!!!
> and copies of the photos in the bedroom
> worra prick


But he tore it into _really small_ pieces!!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 20, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> The forensic examinations of his computers and phones was pretty scary though. Pretty much everything you ever do on either is going to be permanently available to plod and other agencies.



Tor Browser

For your more 'specialist' searches


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> leaving a copy of the ransom note in the bin!!!
> and copies of the photos in the bedroom
> worra prick


All this makes the WHY more interesting


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

5t3IIa said:


> All this makes the WHY more interesting


because he's thick and thought he'd get away with it!


5t3IIa said:


> But he tore it into _really small_ pieces!!


 that was soooo funny


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> because he's thick and thought he'd get away with it!
> 
> that was soooo funny


Yes, but he’s clearly not thick, is he?


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

5t3IIa said:


> Yes, but he’s clearly not thick, is he?


he clearly was! even i'd have burnt the ransom note and wore a hood/hat when doing the recce


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

and not used the police computer to do a search
how thick was that!!


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## Thora (Feb 20, 2018)

Watching this now.  Half way through.  What a moron.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> he clearly was! even i'd have burnt the ransom note and wore a hood/hat when doing the recce


He wasn’t! He was clever. That’s why the why is interesting. Because  something interesting went _wrong_. You’re thick so you don’t get it.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> and not used the police computer to do a search
> how thick was that!!



I think arrogance did for him. He surely can't have been so stupid as to use the PNC and keep pictures and the note etc. unless he thought there was no way that the bloke would report it. £1000 is a good amount, not too little to not be worthwhile, not too much that he can't raise the cash. Most people I guess would rather pay up than risk their wife finding out what they'd been up to.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

I think he was so worried his wife would find out what _he’d_ been up to that he got in a blind panic and it turned him thick.


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## Spymaster (Feb 20, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Tor Browser
> 
> For your more 'specialist' searches


That'll stop outsiders from finding out who you are but it won't prevent plod from interrogating your hard drive and finding out what you've been looking at if they actually get hold of your computer will it?


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

5t3IIa said:


> He wasn’t! He was clever. That’s why the why is interesting. Because  something interesting went _wrong_. You’re thick so you don’t get it.


how was he clever and how am i thick and why are you calling me thick?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 20, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> That'll stop outsiders from finding out who you are but it won't prevent plod from interrogating your hard drive and finding out what you've been looking at if they actually get hold of your computer will it?



Oh no, but I think last night we saw them going through his google history; if you use Chrome and it's linked to your google sign in then your entire history is there, forever: How to make money through crime, etc.


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## ricbake (Feb 20, 2018)

The officer who worked with him on this case was visibly gob smacked when a colleague told him what was going on - And how weird he was put on the surveillance watching the money he was extorting.
Stupid tosser must have just assume the guy he blackmailed would pay up without question...

Screwing himself over for a grand - job - career - liberty - reputation....


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## sim667 (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> and they were all going on about how good a fucking copper he was even after arrested


One of them did say they thought he got off very lightly, and called him a dickhead tbh.


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

sim667 said:


> One of them did say they thought he got off very lightly, and called him a dickhead tbh.


yeah after a while, a few of them were going on about how good he was tho, to camera with a straight face!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 20, 2018)

sim667 said:


> One of them did say they thought he got off very lightly, and called him a dickhead tbh.



Yeah it was plod what got his sentence doubled, the original one was very light, would be about right for the misconduct in a public office, never mind the blackmail.


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

thought they would get a decent amount of time just for using the pnc for own ends!


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> how was he clever and how am i thick and why are you calling me thick?


So profound


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## sim667 (Feb 20, 2018)

ddraig said:


> yeah after a while, a few of them were going on about how good he was tho, to camera with a straight face!


I mean, editing comes into play there too.


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## ddraig (Feb 20, 2018)

5t3IIa said:


> So profound


are you going to answer or on a wind up too?


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## Spymaster (Feb 20, 2018)

ricbake said:


> And how weird he was put on the surveillance watching the money he was extorting.


I expect there's only one of those surveillance rooms in Bed's and his involvement in it is precisely what made him think he'd be able to get away with this.


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## wiskey (Feb 20, 2018)

5t3IIa said:


> He wasn’t! He was clever. That’s why the why is interesting. Because  something interesting went _wrong_.



this. He was doing something else, still is probably, something bigger that being banged up and losing his job was worth risking for.


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## ricbake (Feb 20, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> I expect there's only one of those surveillance rooms in Bed's and his involvement in it is precisely what made him think he'd be able to get away with this.


I really don't think he'd thought it though at all.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 20, 2018)

Just watched this and I'm surprised that a few of the featured participants signed the consent forms for their faces to be used.


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## moomoo (Feb 20, 2018)

Is this the first one of a new series?


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## clicker (Feb 20, 2018)

How long did he get? I missed the last 10 minutes


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## ska invita (Feb 20, 2018)

thanks for the heads up on this
love it: Plod - lets let reality tv cameras in to see what hard work we do and how we protect the public, should help people respect us a bit more. Head office reckon its worth doing. Every one on their best behaviour please!

DoH!
Not only do they catch a bent cop on film, he then gets a tiny sentence despite his long charge sheet
police rep as expected


clicker said:


> How long did he get? I missed the last 10 minutes


serve 9 months


----------



## Thora (Feb 20, 2018)

Initially got 18 months but the police appealed his sentence and he got 3years.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 21, 2018)

Thora said:


> Initially got 18 months but the police appealed his sentence and he got 3years.


dont think that was in the show. but again means he'll serve half (18 months)
cant imagine the police wouldve appealed for leniency if it wasnt on tv though - desperate face saving


----------



## MrSpikey (Feb 21, 2018)

ska invita said:


> cant imagine the police wouldve appealed for leniency if it wasnt on tv though - desperate face saving



It would be the CPS, not the cops, who decide to chase the appeal, but yeah, I agree with the reason.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Feb 21, 2018)

ska invita said:


> dont think that was in the show. but again means he'll serve half (18 months)
> cant imagine the police wouldve appealed for leniency if it wasnt on tv though - desperate face saving


Tbf it was in the show. He got the 18 months then the big cop talking head said he wasn’t happy with that and explained that they appealed. There had been a mention of four years earlier by one of the same team as wheelchair guy, which I’d assume is the potential sentence for non-aggravated blackmail (or whatever they reckoned the charge could be) so matey boy did get off lightly but I’d still give them credit for appealing. Seems like the judge is more to blame for being classically out of touch than the police but sentencing guidelines are a thing.


----------



## wiskey (Feb 21, 2018)

It really annoys me when they let you know the outcome by putting text on the screen, means I actually have to pay attention.


----------



## Thora (Feb 21, 2018)

ska invita said:


> dont think that was in the show. but again means he'll serve half (18 months)
> cant imagine the police wouldve appealed for leniency if it wasnt on tv though - desperate face saving


It was on the show.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 21, 2018)

moomoo said:


> Is this the first one of a new series?



Yes.


----------



## iamwithnail (Feb 21, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> That'll stop outsiders from finding out who you are but it won't prevent plod from interrogating your hard drive and finding out what you've been looking at if they actually get hold of your computer will it?



Hard drive evidence is accessible in two ways - general cached stuff that your browser stores when you browse in normal mode - all the images, videos, streams etc - that's all just there (and very easy to link to IP addresses/etc.), unless you delete it or browse in private mode. If you're browsing in private mode, you should also use a VPN, Tor, or both.  (Using a VPN and then connecting to TOR hides the fact that you're connecting to Tor bridges in the first place.  Likely be super slow, though.) 

Secondly, what happens when you delete stuff normally is that the computer deletes the reference to the stuff. How and where depends on the system, but largely, that's the fastest way to delete stuff from a filesystem - forget it exists.  It doesn't automatically actually delete it until the computer happens to overwrite it with new data.  You can use secure delete (which overwrites the data on purpose, a varying number of times depending on how secure/slow you want to be) and also 'free space deletion', which overwrites the bits of your drive that aren't actively being used, in the same way, with junk data.

Now, if you have a magnetic drive, rather than a new fangled Solid State Drive, then storing data on the drive leaves a magnetic imprint, even if it's been overwritten by the normal course of use - sort of like seeing the marks from a page above further down in a notepad.  The more you overwrite, the less likely that is.

Eta:  Also, most people are horrified to see what their browser gives away about them, to every single page that asks.


----------



## tommers (Feb 21, 2018)

We watched this as well.  Bizarre.

He did start getting upset when they were asking him about pressure on his family or something.  There must be more to it, no way does a copper risk everything for a grand.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 21, 2018)

iamwithnail said:


> Hard drive evidence is accessible in two ways - general cached stuff that your browser stores when you browse in normal mode - all the images, videos, streams etc - that's all just there (and very easy to link to IP addresses/etc.), unless you delete it or browse in private mode. If you're browsing in private mode, you should also use a VPN, Tor, or both.  (Using a VPN and then connecting to TOR hides the fact that you're connecting to Tor bridges in the first place.  Likely be super slow, though.)
> 
> Secondly, what happens when you delete stuff normally is that the computer deletes the reference to the stuff. How and where depends on the system, but largely, that's the fastest way to delete stuff from a filesystem - forget it exists.  It doesn't automatically actually delete it until the computer happens to overwrite it with new data.  You can use secure delete (which overwrites the data on purpose, a varying number of times depending on how secure/slow you want to be) and also 'free space deletion', which overwrites the bits of your drive that aren't actively being used, in the same way, with junk data.
> 
> ...


Interesting. This is a new computer. A friend of mine transferred a load of files from the old one. Will this computer have the browsing history of the last one?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Interesting. This is a new computer. A friend of mine transferred a load of files from the old one. Will this computer have the browsing history of the last one?


let's hope not, eh


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 21, 2018)

Quite


----------



## 5t3IIa (Feb 21, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Interesting. This is a new computer. A friend of mine transferred a load of files from the old one. Will this computer have the browsing history of the last one?



I think it’s on the hard drive only. Just sticking a bunch of files on a usb and putting them on a new pc won’t have the footprints of deleted stuff. When the forensics cops do their thing they will list accessible and inaccessible files, which includes any fragments of deleted stuff that’s not been over written.

Edit: but if you mean internet browsing and you also log in to your browser eg chrome then yes - you can access your browsing history.


----------



## moomoo (Feb 21, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yes.



Fab. Thanks.


----------



## iamwithnail (Feb 21, 2018)

^^ yeah, that.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Feb 21, 2018)

wiskey said:


> It really annoys me when they let you know the outcome by putting text on the screen, means I actually have to pay attention.



I've got repeat form for changing the volume just when they put the text up. You can hear my aaaaaargh halfway down the street, I end up having to google the result

The blackmail episode was a curve ball. What a life that prostitute has, camper van sex with punters in car parks while her partner/business partner/husband sits in the front. Did they get a release form explained to them?

The sad thing is the coppers colleagues thought very well of him professionally and he cracks on and makes every mistake in the book.

I'm not keen on senior coppers challenging sentences on a principal/organisational embarrassment, I'd like to think that the legal system have "got this" within the sentencing tariff system

I might get shot down but he tried to extort a grand off some bloke, in a fairly inefficient manner, he didn't use any violence, fairly pathetic and his victim a family man was using a prostitute in a camper van in a car park

ETA, sentencing research..

_There are no Sentencing Council guidelines for blackmail. The offence is fact-specific and the sentence must be arrived at after identifying the pertinent aggravating and mitigating factors (see R v Ferguson [2017] EWCA Crim 356).

Practical Law UK Signon
_


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 21, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> I've got repeat form for changing the volume just when they put the text up. You can hear my aaaaaargh halfway down the street, I end up having to google the result
> 
> The blackmail episode was a curve ball. What a life that prostitute has, camper van sex with punters in car parks while her partner/business partner/husband sits in the front. Did they get a release form explained to them?
> 
> ...



You forget he was also done for misconduct in a public office, relating to the computer search. That alone can get you life. Blackmail can get 14 years. It is exceedingly rare for the police to oppose a sentence, but in a small way they were one of the victims of this case, so they did have a vested interest in getting a worthwhile result.


----------



## alex_ (Feb 21, 2018)

iamwithnail said:


> Hard drive evidence is accessible in two ways - general cached stuff that your browser stores when you browse in normal mode - all the images, videos, streams etc - that's all just there (and very easy to link to IP addresses/etc.), unless you delete it or browse in private mode. If you're browsing in private mode, you should also use a VPN, Tor, or both.  (Using a VPN and then connecting to TOR hides the fact that you're connecting to Tor bridges in the first place.  Likely be super slow, though.)
> 
> Secondly, what happens when you delete stuff normally is that the computer deletes the reference to the stuff. How and where depends on the system, but largely, that's the fastest way to delete stuff from a filesystem - forget it exists.  It doesn't automatically actually delete it until the computer happens to overwrite it with new data.  You can use secure delete (which overwrites the data on purpose, a varying number of times depending on how secure/slow you want to be) and also 'free space deletion', which overwrites the bits of your drive that aren't actively being used, in the same way, with junk data.
> 
> ...



Forensic data recovery is pretty expensive, and if you’ve written over it they’ve got no chance.

Eg cipher /w:c on a windows box will wipe all free space.

Alex


----------



## Calamity1971 (Feb 21, 2018)

I liked the way they shown him interviewing a blackmailer 18 months previously. 
When he was arrested him they called him Pc ..... yet one of his colleagues said he was a great detective?
Had he already been demoted or am I being a bit thick?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 21, 2018)

Calamity1971 said:


> I liked the way they shown him interviewing a blackmailer 18 months previously.
> When he was arrested him they called him Pc ..... yet one of his colleagues said he was a great detective?
> Had he already been demoted or am I being a bit thick?


Detective isn’t a rank, it just means he’s in the CID as opposed to a uniformed plod. Strictly speaking he’d have been a DC.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Feb 21, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Detective isn’t a rank, it just means he’s in the CID as opposed to a uniformed plod. Strictly speaking he’d have been a DC.


Cheers. Bit thick confirmed


----------



## ricbake (Feb 21, 2018)

Detective Constable Gareth Suffling was charged with blackmail, malfeasance and computer misuse.
Police officer who blackmailed member of the public has sentence increased - GOV.UK


----------



## Part 2 (May 21, 2018)

Heads up...new episode on now. Looks like an interesting one.


----------



## bellaozzydog (May 21, 2018)

Part 2 said:


> Heads up...new episode on now. Looks like an interesting one.



I am jumping up and down watching this


----------



## Part 2 (May 21, 2018)

He's unreal!


----------



## Supine (May 21, 2018)

Guilty!! Burn him


----------



## bellaozzydog (May 21, 2018)

I wasn't keen on the "mental health assessor"


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 21, 2018)

Never seen this before. Watching now. Quite engaging.


----------



## Supine (May 21, 2018)

Supine said:


> Guilty!! Burn him



Put the fire out! Oops.


----------



## bellaozzydog (May 21, 2018)

The lower level coppers all seem very unsophisticated and super prejudiced


No surprise there really

They'd still see him strung up for it for the result because he is "wierd"


----------



## cyril_smear (May 21, 2018)

Supine said:


> Guilty!! Burn him



Trial by heavily edited TV show?


----------



## Supine (May 21, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> Trial by heavily edited TV show?



That's why we enjoy it


----------



## cyril_smear (May 21, 2018)

Why was this episode given 90 minutes instead of the usual 60?


----------



## ddraig (May 21, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> Why was this episode given 90 minutes instead of the usual 60?


because it was 36hrs in police custody??


----------



## cyril_smear (May 21, 2018)

ddraig said:


> because it was 36hrs in police custody??



Touche; well done.

I've had one of those twelve hour extensions while going through full on DT's. Horrible!!


----------



## Mumbles274 (May 21, 2018)

Just watched on +1.. Sad story. Felt pretty early on he wasnt involved, there just wasnt any forensic evidence case being shown. I dont know if his actions really helped her before she died, but it certainly wasnt done from any ill intent.


----------



## moomoo (May 22, 2018)

Oooh! I didn’t know this was back!


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 22, 2018)

What an odd-bod, with the doctor stuff and the spreadsheets but the outcome was horrific. Can you imagine doing it yourself like that??


----------



## moomoo (May 22, 2018)

Where can I find it on catch up?


----------



## ddraig (May 22, 2018)

moomoo said:


> Where can I find it on catch up?


All 4 i imagine


----------



## ddraig (May 22, 2018)

googled it for you 
24 Hours in Police Custody - All 4


----------



## Hellsbells (May 22, 2018)

I watched it up til the last 30 minutes because I was nodding off. Will catch up on the end tonight. It's the first time I've watched this programme & I was fascinated by it.


----------



## xsunnysuex (May 22, 2018)

Hellsbells said:


> I watched it up til the last 30 minutes because I was nodding off. Will catch up on the end tonight. It's the first time I've watched this programme & I was fascinated by it.


Loved it.   One of my favourite programs.	Not going to comment further though as don't want to spoil it for Hellsbells


----------



## D'wards (May 22, 2018)

It really is a fantastic programme.

The bent copper one last series- what a story! And the heroin addict woman who'd moved her mates body on a disability scooter- it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic


----------



## cyril_smear (May 22, 2018)

D'wards said:


> and the heroin addict woman who'd moved her mates body on a disability scooter- it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic



I must've missed that episode.


----------



## xsunnysuex (May 22, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> I must've missed that episode.


It was strange.  Her friend died in her flat.  She was so worried she'd get the blame,   she borrowed her neighbours disability scooter to dump the body in the park.


----------



## Looby (May 22, 2018)

I’ve never watched this before last night. I’d wrongly assumed it was going to be like a channel 5 cop chase thing but it was really good. I can’t seem to find previous episodes anywhere. I’ve tried sky box sets and all 4.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 22, 2018)

Pretty much all episodes available on daily motion.


----------



## Casual Observer (May 22, 2018)

D'wards said:


> It really is a fantastic programme.
> 
> The bent copper one last series- what a story! And the heroin addict woman who'd moved her mates body on a disability scooter- it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic


I'm afraid I find some of it very funny, more so because I know I shouldn't.

Police: Have you had anything to drink?
Suspect: I've had 4 litres of 5%.

Police: We're just going to pat you down.
Suspect: I should warn you I am going commando.


----------



## Mumbles274 (May 22, 2018)

Being repeated now


----------



## Calamity1971 (May 23, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I'm afraid I find some of it very funny, more so because I know I shouldn't.


When they shown the footage of him opening the door with the stethoscope round his neck I lost it. He even controlled his bloody dog! 
That's one of the most fucked up episodes I've seen. It even beats them arresting one of their own.


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 23, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I'm afraid I find some of it very funny, more so because I know I shouldn't.
> 
> Police: Have you had anything to drink?
> Suspect: I've had 4 litres of 5%.
> ...


And the “I’ll need to put some shoes on” and a shot of 100 pairs of manky trainers


----------



## moomoo (May 23, 2018)

5t3IIa said:


> And the “I’ll need to put some shoes on” and a shot of 100 pairs of manky trainers



But the way they were all lined up the stairs!!! He was very odd!


----------



## Supine (May 23, 2018)

Add to spreadsheet "arrested"


----------



## moomoo (May 23, 2018)

Supine said:


> Add to spreadsheet "arrested"


----------



## Reiabuzz (May 23, 2018)

moomoo said:


> But the way they were all lined up the stairs!!! He was very odd!



Yep. The coppers at the end saying he 'was in no way responsible' for her death weren't really looking beyond the final act itself. He was a very fucked up person and undoubtedly something of a psychopath. Of course that doesn't make him 'guilty; of her death but absolving him of partial responsibility is at least a poor choice of words.


----------



## Teaboy (May 23, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Yep. The coppers at the end saying he 'was in no way responsible' for her death weren't really looking beyond the final act itself. He was a very fucked up person and undoubtedly something of a psychopath. Of course that doesn't make him 'guilty; of her death but absolving him of partial responsibility is at least a poor choice of words.



It seemed to me that he certainly knew more than he was letting on.  Whilst he was a total oddball his behavior was far too suspicious.  Given the control he had over her and the mental state she was in it wouldn't surprise me if had told her to go off and kill herself.  All his behavior suggested he knew she was dead before the police told him and he wasn't bothered by it.


----------



## Reiabuzz (May 23, 2018)

The end bit with his dog was also pretty disturbing


----------



## Teaboy (May 23, 2018)

Yes, clearly a very disturbed and disturbing man.

Ultimately though the Police couldn't place anyone (let alone him) at the scene apart from the poor women and that actually is the part of this story that is hidden by his weirdness, the story of this poor women's grim and terrible life and the incredible sadness of it all.


----------



## bellaozzydog (May 23, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Yep. The coppers at the end saying he 'was in no way responsible' for her death weren't really looking beyond the final act itself. He was a very fucked up person and undoubtedly something of a psychopath. Of course that doesn't make him 'guilty; of her death but absolving him of partial responsibility is at least a poor choice of words.



He was obviously very unusual. I wonder if he has ever had a “diagnosis”

Perhaps not necessarily a sociopath but on some scale somewhere


----------



## Hellsbells (May 23, 2018)

I found something about the guy incredibly sad rather than disturbing.


----------



## bellaozzydog (May 23, 2018)

Hellsbells said:


> I found something about the guy incredibly sad rather than disturbing.



THIS

his motivation was altruistic, in his mind at least but obviously fed his obsessional/controlling personality

The Walter Mitty stuff is generally performed by those who don’t think much of themselves.

If you think the Dog thing was odd you haven’t met many dog owners, many who are undoubtably crackers in their behaviour to their dogs and training them


----------



## Reiabuzz (May 23, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> THIS
> 
> his motivation was altruistic, in his mind at least but obviously fed his obsessional/controlling personality
> 
> ...



Well I've got a dog myself, had one all my life and my parents ran dog kennels when I was a youngun so I've met one or two. I know it was possibly selective editing but the parallels between the way he treated/trained the dog and the woman were pretty clear


----------



## ddraig (May 23, 2018)

why would you agree to be in one of these if you were innocent?!?! 
he may have moved from that area as it said at the end but now people in new area will recognise him surely!


----------



## Teaboy (May 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> why would you agree to be in one of these if you were innocent?!?!
> he may have moved from that area as it said at the end but now people in new area will recognise him surely!



Yes that's what I thought.  Then again he didn't strike me as a person who was very self-aware or someone who makes particularly good decisions.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> why would you agree to be in one of these if you were innocent?!?!
> he may have moved from that area as it said at the end but now people in new area will recognise him surely!


The episode proves his innocence, I can see why he would want that widely known.


----------



## ddraig (May 23, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> The episode proves his innocence, I can see why he would want that widely known.


there is that but still


----------



## cyril_smear (May 23, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> The episode proves his innocence, I can see why he would want that widely known.



He could have stayed completely anonymous though couldn't he?

In that situation I think I would have wanted to start anew where nobody would know me.


----------



## ddraig (May 23, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> He could have stayed completely anonymous though couldn't he?
> 
> In that situation I think I would have wanted to start anew where nobody would know me.


not sure that would work for this programme


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 23, 2018)

Hellsbells said:


> I found something about the guy incredibly sad rather than disturbing.


I'd agree with that. Whilst he is undoubtedly a very unusual person I didn't see malice and think he genuinely thought he was helping her by trying to "contol" the booze and medication. He had already had his world shattered by divorce and now it's happened again. That's not easy.

I also felt desperately sad that she took her own life in such a violent manner.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 23, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I'm afraid I find some of it very funny, more so because I know I shouldn't.
> 
> Police: Have you had anything to drink?
> Suspect: I've had 4 litres of 5%.
> ...


He mentioned going commando more than once and the copper stifling her laughter when he pulled his foot up and said he did a lot of yoga....naughty police....


----------



## trabuquera (May 23, 2018)

Fascinating and ambiguous story. I was uneasy about the inclusion of images of the woman's dead body, not-very-well pixillated - surely a bit too distressing for her bereaved relatives.


----------



## Teaboy (May 23, 2018)

trabuquera said:


> Fascinating and ambiguous story. I was uneasy about the inclusion of images of the woman's dead body, not-very-well pixillated - surely a bit too distressing for her bereaved relatives.



Perhaps for the family and perhaps I've become used to seeing pictures of dead bodies on the news etc.  Personally I found the state of her life and the nature of her death much more distressing than the image of her body.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> not sure that would work for this programme



??


----------



## ddraig (May 23, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> ??


them remaining anonymous
as it's mostly about the person who's been arrested and going through the 24hr process of being in custody


----------



## cyril_smear (May 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> them remaining anonymous
> as it's mostly about the person who's been arrested and going through the 24hr process of being in custody



There have being episodes where the people arrested have had their identities not shown in the past e.g when they were not charged with anything.


----------



## joustmaster (May 23, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> There have being episodes where the people arrested have had their identities not shown in the past e.g when they were not charged with anything.


not on this program though?


----------



## Part 2 (May 23, 2018)

It's a very well edited program so difficult to know anything really but his controlling behaviour seemed to be matched by her violence. They were one of those codependent couples who probably shouldn't be together but don't know how to go their own ways. 

I was interested in his friends testimony. Think he said he was pretty normal until the divorce and it made me wonder what he'd been like in his marriage that perhaps wasn't seen by friends. He seemed so off the scale with the spreadsheets and recording everything I can't believe he was ever straight forward.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 23, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> not on this program though?


What's your point caller?


----------



## cyril_smear (May 23, 2018)

Part 2 said:


> It's a very well edited program so difficult to know anything really but his controlling behaviour seemed to be matched by her violence. They were one of those codependent couples who probably shouldn't be together but don't know how to go their own ways.
> 
> I was interested in his friends testimony. Think he said he was pretty normal until the divorce and it made me wonder what he'd been like in his marriage that perhaps wasn't seen by friends. He seemed so off the scale with the spreadsheets and recording everything I can't believe he was ever straight forward.



I watched this episode again today whilst I was sober and I come to the conclusion that he most certainly wasn't a normal fella. Very fake in my opinion.


----------



## joustmaster (May 23, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> What's your point caller?


You said that programs sometimes have anonymous people featured. This program doesn't seem to do that. 
So if the dude insisted on being anonymous, they wouldn't have made the program.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 23, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> You said that programs sometimes have anonymous people featured. This program doesn't seem to do that.
> So if the dude insisted on being anonymous, they wouldn't have made the program.



Fuck knows. You've lost me.


----------



## joustmaster (May 23, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> Fuck knows. You've lost me.


no bother


----------



## moomoo (May 29, 2018)

Last nights was hilarious! When the girlfriend said she had been his Probation Officer! What???!!! And then she totally dropped herself in it. And the gang were all a bit thick weren’t they?


----------



## D'wards (May 29, 2018)

moomoo said:


> Last nights was hilarious! When the girlfriend said she had been his Probation Officer! What???!!! And then she totally dropped herself in it. And the gang were all a bit thick weren’t they?


I felt a little bit sorry for the young lad, he obviously thought he was in with a crew, but you know they'd turn on him in a second if it would be to their advantage


----------



## cyril_smear (May 29, 2018)

moomoo said:


> Last nights was hilarious! When the girlfriend said she had been his Probation Officer! What???!!! And then she totally dropped herself in it. And the gang were all a bit thick weren’t they?



 I was a bit tidly last night, and now deleted the programme. What did she do to drop herself in it? 

Were they thick? As I recall they no commented... Leave it to the police and CPS to prove it.


----------



## Part 2 (May 30, 2018)

moomoo said:


> Last nights was hilarious! When the girlfriend said she had been his Probation Officer! What???!!! And then she totally dropped herself in it. And the gang were all a bit thick weren’t they?



You don't think that happens loads? Probation officers, screws and solicitors, happens all the time.

Not really the best episode. Better where there's one suspect and the interviewing/editing makes the program. These lot were bang to rights from the off. Surprised at the low sentences for the main guys though.


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 30, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> I was a bit tidly last night, and now deleted the programme. What did she do to drop herself in it?
> 
> Were they thick? As I recall they no commented... Leave it to the police and CPS to prove it.


The texts showed she knew all about the business.


----------



## Casual Observer (May 30, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> I was a bit tidly last night, and now deleted the programme. What did she do to drop herself in it?
> 
> Were they thick? As I recall they no commented... Leave it to the police and CPS to prove it.


The probation officer answered all the questions put to her and admitted that she had large amounts of money in her bag, that a machete belonged to her partner and that her partner knew 'V', the distributor. The gang were a bit thick in having a loud conversation across the corridor between the cells discussing whether 'V' had been arrested. Also, probably unwise for the gang's leader to call the arresting officer a faggot and tell him you'll cut his head off if he sees him on the street.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 31, 2018)

Posting photos on Facebook of a massive wad of cash with "gang shit" written across it.


----------



## Shechemite (May 31, 2018)

Buying the phone/sim with yer gang mates probably not the best way to keep under the radar.


----------



## Supine (May 31, 2018)

Being guilty and signing a disclaimer that allows the TV company to show your faces on the screen 

Not the sharpest tools in the toolbox


----------



## Teaboy (May 31, 2018)

Supine said:


> Being guilty and signing a disclaimer that allows the TV company to show your faces on the screen
> 
> Not the sharpest tools in the toolbox



I don't think you get the choice if you're convicted.  Its the ones who were not charged or acquitted that'll be signing the waiver.  There is a right to be forgotten thing which means these programs will not be able to repeated after they've served their sentences or at least not without blurring of faces and editing out of names.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 31, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> I don't think you get the choice if you're convicted.  Its the ones who were not charged or acquitted that'll be signing the waiver.  There is a right to be forgotten thing which means these programs will not be able to repeated after they've served their sentences or at least not without blurring of faces and editing out of names.




Ah, that would explain why you can't find 24 hours on all4.


----------



## Dandred (May 31, 2018)

Why didn't they try to get anyone higher, wouldn't have been that difficult, just a little more surveillance.


----------



## bellaozzydog (May 31, 2018)

Was it a two parter or did I fall asleep


----------



## likesfish (May 31, 2018)

cops hate
name rank and number 
whats your unit tells us and they will come and get you
I'm sorry I can't answer that question sir 
copper fuck


----------



## cyril_smear (Jun 25, 2018)

Anybody watching?


----------



## moomoo (Jun 25, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> Anybody watching?



Me!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 25, 2018)

Bums! Forgot this was on. Just hit the restart button on All 4.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 25, 2018)

...which doesn't work! So I'll have to watch it later


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 25, 2018)

Last week's was incredibly sad.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jun 25, 2018)

moomoo said:


> Me!



It's a bizzare one tonight.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jun 26, 2018)

The first half of this one just seemed like he was a baby faced gang member who was going to no comment until the police busted him with a gun under his pillow but the rest was horrible. Wtf was supposed to happen to get him a diagnosis/help? Literally no available physical bed space  meant he was almost released to murder someone! Also the CPS seemed a bit hung up on some illogicalities 

I like that nurse policewoman  Very powerful presence.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jun 26, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> Anybody watching?



A cracking episode. The low levelCoppers real motivation seems to be get a result at all costs. Up the ladder a bit public safety and some ethics seem to sneak in.

Incredibly a kid who has just attempted to murder his mother is about to be Launched back into the streets because mental health services can’t deal with him within their protocols/physical capacity. And the kid is assessed as fit for justice......despite the later diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia and a not guilty and sectioning/secure psychiatric placement

Only the polices desperate need to convict gets the lad the access to treatment he needs

Fascinating and depressing to watch


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 26, 2018)

As ever excellent commentary from Michael Brown:

Twenty Four Hours in Police Custody


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 26, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> As ever excellent commentary from Michael Brown:
> 
> Twenty Four Hours in Police Custody



He’s right about a lot (and is often putting MH pros to rights about the law - but ACAB yeah?). 

He’s not half a pompous prick though


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 26, 2018)

He's an expert in his field, is a copper, and doesn't suffer fools, so it's not like the flavour of the dish being cooked should be a surprise


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 27, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> Only the polices desperate need to convict gets the lad the access to treatment he needs



In addition to the knifing of his own ma, he was also a member of an organised crime gang. One engaged in a postcode turf war involving shootings (including his own brother). If I lived on his estate I'd probably be desperate for him to be off the streets.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 2, 2018)

Just about to start watching it on record.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jul 2, 2018)

a differently paced episode this week.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 2, 2018)

Oh thank god; it was just a big misunderstanding.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jul 2, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> Oh thank god; it was just a big misunderstanding.



Part of the "Hostile environment" ?

Uncomfortable watching


----------



## ddraig (Jul 2, 2018)

can they sue for being in prison for a month?


----------



## The Fornicator (Jul 3, 2018)

Cracking hour of tv that was. Very well judged imo.


----------



## moomoo (Jul 3, 2018)

That was so interesting!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 3, 2018)

Very interesting and so glad there wasn't anything sinister going on.

It did feel somewhat like harrassment when they arrested Gencho and keeping them inside for so long.

I reckon the girl probably said she was going to be working because she thought that would be the right thing to say to the police.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 3, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I reckon the girl probably said she was going to be working because she thought that would be the right thing to say to the police.



I dunno.  I suspect the girl probably was going to be working, just not sex work.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 3, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> I dunno.  I suspect the girl probably was going to be working, just not sex work.


Maybe....she was so vague about it though and everybody else denied it. The families also seemed to realise the importance of education for getting out of poverty. Who knows. Given the home situation in Bulgaria, another wage would certainly help


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 3, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Maybe....she was so vague about it though and everybody else denied it. The families also seemed to realise the importance of education for getting out of poverty. Who knows. Given the home situation in Bulgaria, another wage would certainly help



Yeah, no judgment at all against the family, its grim for a lot of Bulgarians let alone Roma.  Its just its most likely that she told the story she was told and also the reason the father gave such an odd and evasive interview.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 3, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah, no judgment at all against the family, its grim for a lot of Bulgarians let alone Roma.  Its just its most likely that she told the story she was told and also the reason the father gave such an odd and evasive interview.


His interview was really odd yeah. Perhaps due to fear at not really knowing why he'd been arrested and wanting to give as little information as possible to the authorities? I dunno.


----------



## The Fornicator (Jul 3, 2018)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I reckon the girl probably said she was going to be working because she thought that would be the right thing to say to the police.


Yep, probably.

The other thing might be her father used the prospect of work - and her own money - to lure her to England knowing that going to a school system where she didn't speak the language was not going to win over her new hot boyfriend at home. Turns out the best economic hope for the whole family is now a bi-lingual 5-year old who he hopes will go to to a UK Uni.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 3, 2018)

I don't know what I was expecting the outcome of the programme to be in honesty. 

For some reason I thought they were all going to prison, including the daughter.


----------



## The Fornicator (Jul 4, 2018)

They kind of are. It just doesn't have bars.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 4, 2018)

So much dodgy shit goes on around that part of the world regarding sex trafficking. The police had a real duty to get right involved there.
It's better an odd acting but innocent man gets locked up for a bit than a 12 year old girl is consumed in the sex trade imho


----------



## Thora (Jul 4, 2018)

I thought it was most likely that she was coming to stay with Gencho for all the good reasons her family had to send her to England, but she would be working/helping with childcare and housework to earn her keep at least.  12 year old nanny in England was still a much better prospect than 13 year old wife in Bulgaria.  Less clear was whether she would be attending school, or whether she would be paid or not.


----------



## Thora (Jul 4, 2018)

I am surprised she didn't get a bit more coaching on what to say to the police/border control though!  Not even knowing the name of the bloke who was bringing her over.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 9, 2018)

Challenging viewing tonight


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 9, 2018)

Aye, not very pleasant.


----------



## Saffy (Jul 9, 2018)

Just awful.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 9, 2018)

A suspended sentence for encouraging a man to shag his kids so he could watch? The mind boggles.


----------



## moomoo (Jul 9, 2018)

That was horrible to watch. I felt a bit sorry for the old bloke though. I can’t stand that mob mentality. The court should be left to deal with punishing him.


----------



## The Fornicator (Jul 10, 2018)

I'e only seen 2 hours of this programme - the last two episodes - and it's floored me each time. So good. BAFTA noms at least.

The Facebook Live scene in the carpark was beyond most Black Mirror episodes. Extraordinary.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 10, 2018)

moomoo said:


> That was horrible to watch. I felt a bit sorry for the old bloke though. I can’t stand that mob mentality. The court should be left to deal with punishing him.


That made very conflicting viewing didn't it? He is guilty of grooming and sexual assault in the past (was it?) but I also felt sorry for him being subjected to that kind of mob "justice". That is not right. So sad when he said that he thought moving to Cornwall might help. As if people in Cornwall don't use Facebook.

The gang of kids trashing his car egged on by the adult filming was particularly vile.


----------



## The Fornicator (Jul 10, 2018)

The thing I didn't understand was how the pensioner was so compliant. He got out the car - madness, stood where he was told, accepted the filming accepted the verbal abuse, accepted the egg throwing, stood there as the crowd got bigger ... why do that. And then he went to his home address where the mob trashed everything.

It was like he had no idea how to live with himself.


----------



## clicker (Jul 10, 2018)

Was it the pensioner who got the custodial sentence? If so I reckon he would have been relieved. Makes you wonder how the one who got the suspended sentence will cope. They both seemed so unable to  function or even comprehend what they have done was wrong. When the pensioner talked about suicide it did seem his only way to escape . Fantastic series .


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jul 10, 2018)

Would like to know if the
Police caught up with the  father in the video and threw away the key.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 10, 2018)

mystic pyjamas said:


> Would like to know if the
> Police caught up with the  father in the video and threw away the key.



I think that was addressed at the start, they had intercepted that bloke and that is how they got the lead on the young guy.

As others have put it, it was difficult to watch and I did admit at times I felt for the pensioner.  Thing is there can be no doubt what he was up to, he was attempting to meet a child, get her drunk and have sex with her.  All this whilst on police bail for other similar nastiness.  His self-pitying 'I'm not a peado, I'm just lonely' comments were pathetic.  He is a persistent predator of young girls and whilst I'm no great fan of mob justice, he quite frankly had it coming.


----------



## ash (Jul 10, 2018)

clicker said:


> Was it the pensioner who got the custodial sentence? If so I reckon he would have been relieved. Makes you wonder how the one who got the suspended sentence will cope. They both seemed so unable to  function or even comprehend what they have done was wrong. When the pensioner talked about suicide it did seem his only way to escape . Fantastic series .


I wondered about that he even lit a cigarette I couldn’t work out if he was like a rabbit startled in the headlights or if he was getting some sort of kick out of it.
I felt almost (or just) as disgusted at the braying mob mentality which was sick in its own right as I did at his history.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 10, 2018)

ash said:


> I wondered about that he even lit a cigarette I couldn’t work out if he was like a rabbit startled in the headlights or if he was getting some sort of kick out of it.
> I felt almost (or just) as disgusted at the braying mob mentality which was sick in its own right as I did at his history.


He looked frightened to death and appeared to be trembling.

No sympathy, although it wasn't nice to watch.


----------



## The Fornicator (Jul 10, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> ..  whilst I'm no great fan of mob justice, he quite frankly had it coming.


And that in a nut shell is the dilemma the programme made so well.

On a tangent, I wasn't sure if social media creates the situation described. I've long since shut down Facebook but I'd be surprised to go on there and be able to locate Gary Glitter or Venables or some other notorious offender, never mind men like this.


----------



## ash (Jul 10, 2018)

I thought the two coppers interviewing the younger bloke did a great job- real skill.


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 10, 2018)

arrgh...why isn't on all4 yet?


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jul 11, 2018)

Hard viewing. why are known paedophiles able to continue grooming children while on bail. Is that a failure of the system? Yes
Mob law, I question the motivations of the main protagonists and I hate watching the ugly mob psychology play out into violence, it makes me feel physically quite sick.
I think the justice system and police need to be left to deal with justice (however unpalatable that is) do they have enough bodies and budgets to deal with the issues, probably not
While I lean strongly towards ACAB and I'm not happy with the "get a result at any cost" culture the coppers dealing with this sort of shit on a daily basis have my respect for exposing themselves to it on a daily basis, no doubt they have some high burn out rates

Very conflicted. my natural instinct would be protect the paedophile from the mob and hope that he would be dealt with by the justice system in a way that reduced the risk to future victims

More investment needs to be put into the less palatable areas of societies ills, identification and treatment/mitigation of sexual predators, unfortunately that's just not popular. likewise coppering.

A depressing episode from all directions.

Still the best TV of the year IMHO


----------



## D'wards (Jul 12, 2018)

There's no doubt paedophiles are the most depraved and disgusting individuals in society.  The paedo-hunters, however, are pretty unpleasant people, for entirely different reasons


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 12, 2018)

Still waiting for it to appear on all4. Is there any reason it might have been pulled?


----------



## Yata (Jul 12, 2018)

probably worried one of them will get killed or something? its on here anyway if anyone needs the link https://www.seriestop.net/show/24-hours-in-police-custody


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 13, 2018)

D'wards said:


> There's no doubt paedophiles are the most depraved and disgusting individuals in society.  The paedo-hunters, however, are pretty unpleasant people, for entirely different reasons


Im certain that some of the "paedos" are set up. I know of one round here where a lad his name smeared for being a grass; people saying he was looking at their kids etc.

Then the hunters turned up at his door, live streamed it to thousands of people, giving his name and general location, and then left without calling the police as usual.

Why would they not phone the police? Because nothing untoward had happened is my guess.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 20, 2019)

I just downloaded all 4 specifically to watch this... what happened? Why don't they have it on there anymore?


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 20, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> I just downloaded all 4 specifically to watch this... what happened? Why don't they have it on there anymore?



I suspect some/all will return when the next series is aired although Amazon looks to be showing some so may have an exclusive deal for a period of time.

Doesn't seem to be any info online about when series 8 is due to show, funny because a few months ago at my mates we were excited to see series 8, episode 1 on her telly ready to watch but when we clicked on it there was nothing there and it had disappeared the next day. Maybe it's success will mean it moving off ch4?

Some episodes are on youtube/dailymotion in the meantime.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 20, 2019)

Part 2 said:


> I suspect some/all will return when the next series is aired although Amazon looks to be showing some so may have an exclusive deal for a period of time.
> 
> Doesn't seem to be any info online about when series 8 is due to show, funny because a few months ago at my mates we were excited to see series 8, episode 1 on her telly ready to watch but when we clicked on it there was nothing there and it had disappeared the next day. Maybe it's success will mean it moving off ch4?
> 
> Some episodes are on youtube/dailymotion in the meantime.



Thanks. I always forget about  daily motion


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Mar 7, 2019)

It's back! New series starts on Monday 9pm.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 10, 2019)

Yay


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Mar 26, 2019)

I know the mum from the one last night. We used to hate each other, but get on surprisingly well these days.  A strong, brave lady.  She has thrown herself into speaking out against knife crime, since this happened.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Mar 26, 2019)

I'd forgotten about this as I was away last week. Will catch up tonight as I know these programmes have a tendancy to disappear very quickly.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

Jon-of-arc said:


> I know the mum from the one last night. We used to hate each other, but get on surprisingly well these days.  A strong, brave lady.  She has thrown herself into speaking out against knife crime, since this happened.



Last night was shocking. Absolutely shocking, my 15 year old watched it with me with the widest eyes I have ever seen on her. 

Sure there have always been stabbings, but the murder, they absolutely did mean to kill him, a total stranger who had not wronged them personally in any way. 

The minimum recs they got were far too short, 30 should be the starting point.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Mar 26, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Last night was shocking. Absolutely shocking, my 15 year old watched it with me with the widest eyes I have ever seen on her.
> 
> Sure there have always been stabbings, but the murder, they absolutely did mean to kill him, a total stranger who had not wronged them personally in any way.
> 
> The minimum recs they got were far too short, 30 should be the starting point.



The one who grassed himself and the others up - the driver.  Felt a little sorry for him.  When he was saying about the crazy one, the one who did the stabbing, about how he would just do serious violence with no emotion.  Get to hanging round with someone like that aged 18 or so, you don't know how that is gonna impact your life.

I'm not a huge fan of massive prison sentences for their own sake. 18 years is a long time. A time to reflect on your mis-deeds etc, maybe do some growing and repent.  Or not, as the case may well be.  If he's a changed man in 18 years I would see no problem with releasing him.  If he's still a dangerous nutcase, then keep him in for much, much longer. 

I think Roseanne (the mum) is quite forgiving of the lads who did it. She's not allowed herself to become swallowed by bitterness (she would have before this happened - I can assure you).  It's funny how awful events can change people for the better.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Mar 26, 2019)

She attended the trial, and apparently some of the lads were smirking at her when the judge/jury were out of the court room. I was expecting her to put the boot in (something she could do amazingly well, if it took her fancy - and who could have blamed her?), on the victim impact statement at sentencing, but apparently she did not. Wrote a thoughtful letter explaining her loss and forgiving those who had done it.  Society will punish them enough, I guess is the thinking. Her own vitriol wouldn't bring her son back.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

Jon-of-arc said:


> The one who grassed himself and the others up - the driver.  Felt a little sorry for him.  When he was saying about the crazy one, the one who did the stabbing, about how he would just do serious violence with no emotion.  Get to hanging round with someone like that aged 18 or so, you don't know how that is gonna impact your life.



tbf to him, he got 11 for manslaughter, not life, so out in 5-6. Still a large part of his life in prison, but not life with the 18's the others got.



> I'm not a huge fan of massive prison sentences for their own sake. 18 years is a long time. A time to reflect on your mis-deeds etc, maybe do some growing and repent.  Or not, as the case may well be.  If he's a changed man in 18 years I would see no problem with releasing him.  If he's still a dangerous nutcase, then keep him in for much, much longer.



I am certainly not a hang'em and flog'em type and yes, 18 years is a long time to spend inside. However as deterrent, and deterrent is part of a sentence, an 18 year old getting 18 (with decent behaviour that is likely to 20-22 until they do get out), the message to others is that you'll be out in your 30's. The current guidelines state 25 is the starting point for knife murders, and from what I saw (of course not the full picture) there was precious little to mitigate that down to 18 with this bunch.



> I think Roseanne (the mum) is quite forgiving of the lads who did it. She's not allowed herself to become swallowed by bitterness (she would have before this happened - I can assure you).  It's funny how awful events can change people for the better.



She's done the right thing in forgiving them, you can't move forward without doing so. Not sure I'd want to, hope to fuck I never need to find out.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Mar 26, 2019)

I think they got life, with a minimum of 18.  I guess if could well be longer.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

Jon-of-arc said:


> I think they got life, with a minimum of 18.  I guess if could well be longer.



Yes, they were done for murder, so life is mandatory, the minimum recommendation of time to be served before parole can be considered is 18 years. Most lifers spend longer inside, normally 4-8 years longer, sometimes decades more.

Just couldn't really work out why so far below the 25 starting point here. Perhaps cos of their age, under 18's have a lower starting point, were they 17 when they did it? Or if they were 18 that's only just over, I guess.

Shitty business all round.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 26, 2019)

They seem to be focusing on Asian or black offenders this series so far....


----------



## wiskey (Mar 26, 2019)

I found last nights hard watching, partly because of the sheer pointlessness of the murder but also because when I was 16 one of my friends stabbed another one, only one wound but it killed him ... Seeing the force with which those boys assaulted each other was miserable watching. And not just once, over and over


----------



## moomoo (Mar 26, 2019)

wiskey said:


> I found last nights hard watching, partly because of the sheer pointlessness of the murder but also because when I was 16 one of my friends stabbed another one, only one wound but it killed him ... Seeing the force with which those boys assaulted each other was miserable watching. And not just once, over and over



Awful wasn’t it? So sad.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

I wonder if age  had part to do with the low sentence... I was watching it with my father and as soon I saw the video I said that's at least 25 years.

I reckon the lad who was honest(the driver) was hoping for something like an affray charge. I'm not sure if I felt a bit sorry for him... He seemed a bit soppy.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> I reckon the lad who was honest(the driver) was hoping for something like an affray charge. I'm not sure if I felt a bit sorry for him... He seemed a bit soppy.



He was lucky to get a manslaughter, if he'd not bubbled up the others he'd have been thrown in with the joint enterprise and be doing life too.

He was white, btw, Dandred


----------



## Dandred (Mar 26, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> He was lucky to get a manslaughter, if he'd not bubbled up the others he'd have been thrown in with the joint enterprise and be doing life too.
> 
> He was white, btw, Dandred



I said focusing, not only.

The one of the series so far.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> He was lucky to get a manslaughter, if he'd not bubbled up the others he'd have been thrown in with the joint enterprise and be doing life too.
> 
> He was white, btw, Dandred



Didn't leave the car though did he? Id have being grassing if I was him as well. He will certainly have a rough time in jail.

How did he get guilty of manslaughter?? He was charged with murder... Would that be down to culpability?


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> He was lucky to get a manslaughter Dandred



He was charged with murder though wasn't he?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> He was charged with murder though wasn't he?



No, they charged him with manslaughter in view of his cooperation.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> He was charged with murder though wasn't he?


Manslaughter 11 years.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> Didn't leave the car though did he? Id have being grassing if I was him as well. He will certainly have a rough time in jail.
> 
> How did he get guilty of manslaughter?? He was charged with murder... Would that be down to culpability?



Joint enterprise could have roped him in with a murder charge, he was the getaway driver, and the driver to get them to the scene of the crime. He knew the bloke was a psycho, was armed and would use it, yet he still drove him there. That's joint enterprise. 

Not only did he get an effective 6 years rather than a minimum 18, cos he 'grassed' he'll be in a very soft nick all the way, so won't have a rough time. Of course once he's out he may have issues in the Luton area if those others still have friends/influence.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> No, they charged him with manslaughter in view of his cooperation.



"Reece Bliss-McGrath, 20, of Exton Avenue, Luton, was found not guilty of murder but convicted of manslaughter, and was sentenced to 11 years - half to be served in custody and half on licence"

From Bedfordshire police website


----------



## wiskey (Mar 26, 2019)

I'm not sure about the joint enterprise thing. If it had been around when I was 16 we'd all have been sunk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> "Reece Bliss-McGrath, 20, of Exton Avenue, Luton, was found not guilty of murder but convicted of manslaughter, and was sentenced to 11 years - half to be served in custody and half on licence"
> 
> From Bedfordshire police website



Fair enough.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Joint enterprise could have roped him in with a murder charge, he was the getaway driver, and the driver to get them to the scene of the crime. He knew the bloke was a psycho, was armed and would use it, yet he still drove him there. That's joint enterprise.
> 
> Not only did he get an effective 6 years rather than a minimum 18, cos he 'grassed' he'll be in a very soft nick all the way, so won't have a rough time. Of course once he's out he may have issues in the Luton area if those others still have friends/influence.



It's all madness however you look at it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> It's all madness however you look at it.



Totally.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Fair enough.



That's my point... I agree with joint enterprise. How did he end up with a not guilty though? Possibly because he gave an account where as the others didn't idk?


----------



## Dandred (Mar 26, 2019)

Does anyone else seem to think this is focusing mainly on none whites? The last three episodes seem to be. In the past I've not noticed this? (I don't live in the UK but keep up with UK TV)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> That's my point... I agree with joint enterprise. How did he end up with a not guilty though? Possibly because he gave an account where as the others didn't idk?



The found not guilty thing can be at the direction of the prosecution. Dunno in this case, thought they said they were going to do him a favour for talking, but may have misheard, the programme was a bit of a shocker.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Dandred said:


> Does anyone else seem to think this is focusing mainly on none whites? The last three episodes seem to be. In the past I've not noticed this? (I don't live in the UK but keep up with UK TV)



Report it to ofcom. I can't remember the previous 2 episodes; only that they were about sex offences


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Also, is it a different police station they are working with? Perhaps the demographic of the area that station serves is different to the previous series?


----------



## Dandred (Mar 26, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> Report it to ofcom. I can't remember the previous 2 episodes; only that they were about sex offences


I was asking if anyone else thought or had noticed the same theme.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 26, 2019)

Dandred said:


> Does anyone else seem to think this is focusing mainly on none whites? The last three episodes seem to be. In the past I've not noticed this? (I don't live in the UK but keep up with UK TV)



Well, the show is pro-filth propaganda and the filth are a well known racist organisation so...


----------



## Thora (Mar 26, 2019)

Dandred said:


> I was asking if anyone else thought or had noticed the same theme.


I seem to remember the ethnic makeup of Luton is a slight majority bme population, so I guess you could expect 50/50.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 26, 2019)

Dandred said:


> I was asking if anyone else thought or had noticed the same theme.



I was being flippant/an arsehole. No need for it, sorry.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Mar 26, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well, the show is pro-filth propaganda and the filth are a well known racist organisation so...



Not sure it's entirely pro-cop.  The way it was sold to me was my dad basically saying that sometimes it shows the cops massively fucking up.


----------



## smmudge (Mar 26, 2019)

Like when they went to the chief of drugs investigation cos they found a bunch of drugs and he went, err no you can deal with it. Reminded me of my own workplace, ffs.


----------



## wiskey (Mar 26, 2019)

Or when they started investigating something (? Blackmail of a prostitute maybe?) and had to nick one of their colleagues as the perpetrator


----------



## Dandred (Apr 4, 2019)

A white man at last! But a noble one, just supplying us with weed...


----------



## Dandred (Apr 4, 2019)

24 months for nearly a ton of drugs. Cut my finger!


----------



## 8115 (Apr 4, 2019)

Dandred said:


> A white man at last! But a noble one, just supplying us with weed...


What, Mr "Speed Factory"? As saints go, I've seen more convincing.


----------



## Dandred (Apr 4, 2019)

8115 said:


> What, Mr "Speed Factory"? As saints go, I've seen more convincing.


Much better than the crack factory.


----------



## Dandred (Apr 4, 2019)

Drug importation seems to hold a heroic myth, look at Howard marks, not like child rape or molestation. I still think this show is quite biased against Asians and Blacks.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 4, 2019)

I'm just watching the one about the stabbings. So sad.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 5, 2019)

Spoiler: Episode 3



I'm really torn about joint enterprise. In some ways it seems unfair, and I've heard of cases where it was undoubtedly applied unjustly.


The child abuse program was making me want to hurl but now 



Spoiler: Episode 2



they've nicked the brothers and then found out about the drugs and that's definitely justice.


I think the sentencing for indecent images is too lenient though. 118 is no accident and he didn't even go to prison. Literally thousands and the bloke got 18 months. That's not right.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 8, 2019)

Worra dickhead tonight! 
Big time "do you know who I am"


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 8, 2019)

ddraig said:


> Worra dickhead tonight!
> Big time "do you know who I am"



A well deserved 8 years. Stupid fucker.


----------



## quiet guy (Apr 8, 2019)

The man is a complete tosser. Does he not watch any crime tv?


----------



## colacubes (Apr 8, 2019)

What a total bellend


----------



## Calamity1971 (Apr 8, 2019)

How did you get the big fuck off riccoco fireplace down into the cellar.? 
'The French invented flat pack'. 
what a bleeding tool.


----------



## Casual Observer (Apr 9, 2019)

5 minutes into his first interview... "Can I go home now?"


----------



## purenarcotic (Apr 9, 2019)

I can’t believe it took 4 years and 2 trials to get him. What an absolute wally.


----------



## rubbershoes (Apr 9, 2019)

Ans not nearly as smart as he thought he was


----------



## wiskey (Apr 9, 2019)

purenarcotic said:


> I can’t believe it took 4 years and 2 trials to get him. What an absolute wally.


Rich wally ... Although his solicitor did appear to have failed to advise him to no comment in the first interview


----------



## moomoo (Apr 9, 2019)

Forgot to watch this. What’s it about?


----------



## Supine (Apr 9, 2019)

moomoo said:


> Forgot to watch this. What’s it about?



A prick getting time


----------



## clicker (Apr 9, 2019)

Why did it take 4 years? When he was saying he had an heir and a spare for all stolen items I wondered how it could be proved otherwise? I wouldn't have fancied being one of his patients during those four years. And why did he object to being addressed as 'doctor'? Arrogance and stupidity.


----------



## Casual Observer (Apr 9, 2019)

On top of the insurance fraud, he also made three fraudulent mortgage applications and accused the judge of being racist when sentenced. 

One of the more enjoyable episodes as there was no murder or violence. Just a thick and greedy entitled prat getting his just deserts.


----------



## clicker (Apr 9, 2019)

You can also see a grown man emotionally bereft when presented with a photo of a candleabra .  He gilded a very tarnished lily.


----------



## colacubes (Apr 9, 2019)

clicker said:


> Why did it take 4 years? When he was saying he had an heir and a spare for all stolen items I wondered how it could be proved otherwise? I wouldn't have fancied being one of his patients during those four years. And why did he object to being addressed as 'doctor'? Arrogance and stupidity.


Cos he’s a Surgeon and they’re Mr rather than Dr. But it was arrogant af.


----------



## Dandred (Apr 9, 2019)

What an arrogant wanker. Deserved the eight years.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Apr 9, 2019)

Dandred said:


> What an arrogant wanker. Deserved the eight years.


He should have got an extra 2 on top for calling the two detectives 'girls' .


----------



## clicker (Apr 9, 2019)

Calamity1971 said:


> He should have got an extra 2 on top for calling the two detectives 'girls' .


I thought I heard that , but was at the point where I thought he couldn't dig a deeper hole for himself.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 9, 2019)

Just watched this. I can only echo the "what a fucking massive arrogant prick" that everyone else has said. I did a little fist bump when it said he eventially got 8 years. Fucking prick. Seriously believed he was cleverer than the police and above it all. What a horrible little man.


----------



## moomoo (Apr 9, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Just watched this. I can only echo the "what a fucking massive arrogant prick" that everyone else has said. I did a little fist bump when it said he eventially got 8 years. Fucking prick. Seriously believed he was cleverer than the police and above it all. What a horrible little man.


I’ve just watched it as well and thought the same!


----------



## Mogden (Apr 10, 2019)

Christ if there was ever an illustration of a  textbook sociopath, he was it. I wonder how he's managing on the inside


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 13, 2019)

still got all his antiques...

Fraudster still has 'break-in' antiques

Mind you this made me laugh. 

'McGrath hoped his scam would raise enough to finish renovations on his £1.1m property in St Albans - which has since been found structurally unsound'


----------



## Dandred (Apr 18, 2019)

Bad foreigners.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Apr 18, 2019)

Dandred said:


> Bad foreigners.


There has been a real wiff of that this series. Very dubious


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 21, 2019)

I dont know if anybody in this thread watches gogglebox but some of the goggleboxers comment on this episode of 24 hours were hilarious.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 2, 2020)

It's back on for a two parter on Monday and Tuesday next week.


----------



## moomoo (Jan 2, 2020)

cyril_smear said:


> It's back on for a two parter on Monday and Tuesday next week.



Amazing! Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## Numbers (Jan 6, 2020)

Bump/nudge, on now.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 6, 2020)

Watching


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 6, 2020)

grim story.. it appears


----------



## moomoo (Jan 6, 2020)

Grrrr. I’m going to have to watch it on catch up tomorrow.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 6, 2020)

Jordan obvs not the murderer...County lines innit.


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 6, 2020)

dumb kid doing dumb shit...

guy looks like he could not lie on a job application rather than a murder charge


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 7, 2020)

Part 2 said:


> Jordan obvs not the murderer...County lines innit.



I reckon. And the so called Cali medi weed in green pill pots with a home made label is proper suss & more than likely the scam that went tragically wrong - imo of course.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 7, 2020)

Just watched it. Really fascinating. 

I don't reckon Jordan is the killer.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 7, 2020)

round 2 tonight


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 7, 2020)

looking more like jordan is involved in the killing

buying 2 set of dark clothing, switching off phones at the sametime

:hhms:

how does the g/F fit into the picture


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 7, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> looking more like jordan is involved in the killing
> 
> buying 2 set of dark clothing, switching off phones at the sametime
> 
> ...



Don't google it whatever you do...


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 7, 2020)

resisting the temptation since yesterday


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 7, 2020)

Still the most daft pair of criminals i've ever seen if it is them


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 7, 2020)

As soon as I saw the advertisement online I googled the case. Still good TV.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 7, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> Still the most daft pair of criminals i've ever seen if it is them



Couldn't keep their gobs shut.


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 7, 2020)

most here the bag the fella had when we killed the guy

lets give it back to the G/F


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 7, 2020)

hmm the lass got off for preverting the course of justice


surprised as changing her story after 24 hours looks very very dodgy also dumping all his gear the following day at his moms

mouring for the fella "better get rid of his stuff"


----------



## wiskey (Jan 7, 2020)

Omg the 4player (  ) is shit! Streaming E2 it fell over half way through and I can't get it to reload. So I've not seen the end yet


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 7, 2020)

There goes my career as a detective


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 8, 2020)

All I can say is that it's a good job U75 wasn't appointed to investigate the case judging by the comments here.....

The highlight for me was seeing the second killer's journey from headbutt threatening hard man to blubbing and blabbing child (with the requisite patois of a white boy living in what looked like a perfectly decent house and neighbourhood).

What was profoundly depressing was the realisation that this type of pathology isn't limited just to the cities and deindustrialised dead zones in Britain. All across the place there are these pathetic anomic cultures at large.


----------



## Numbers (Jan 8, 2020)

I thought it was obvious Jordan was involved albeit with an additional caveat.

What a bunch of eejits tho.

Would be interested to know why tho’.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 8, 2020)

Smokeandsteam said:


> All I can say is that it's a good job U75 wasn't appointed to investigate the case judging by the comments here.....
> 
> The highlight for me was seeing the second killer's journey from headbutt threatening hard man to blubbing and blabbing child (with the requisite patois of a white boy living in what looked like a perfectly decent house and neighbourhood).
> 
> What was profoundly depressing was the realisation that this type of pathology isn't limited just to the cities and deindustrialised dead zones in Britain. All across the place there are these pathetic anomic cultures at large.



After threatening the much bigger coppers with a headbutt, he went on to say he's been inside and liked it as it showed you who was proper. Then went on to blub as he spilled his guts 


+ Rozzers upstairs watching in as he was grassing; "He thinks he's talking his way out of this!"


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 14, 2020)

Just watching the second part. God if I had to sit and listen to someone saying "No comment" over and over again I'd be screaming in their face


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 14, 2020)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Just watching the second part. God if I had to sit and listen to someone saying "No comment" over and over again I'd be screaming in their face



All the more reason to sit there and say 'no comment' to everything. You don't want a copper who has put you in a cell to be happy, now do you?


----------



## wiskey (Jan 15, 2020)

I'm confused - why is it being shown again as a feature length show?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 16, 2020)

wiskey said:


> I'm confused - why is it being shown again as a feature length show?



I was wondering that.Bizarre


----------



## smmudge (Jan 16, 2020)

Oh crap, we put that on record hoping it was a new story!


----------



## 5t3IIa (Nov 4, 2020)

Back on Sunday at 9pm 👍🏼


----------



## moomoo (Nov 4, 2020)

5t3IIa said:


> Back on Sunday at 9pm 👍🏼



Hurrah!!!


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 4, 2020)

5t3IIa said:


> Back on Sunday at 9pm 👍🏼


----------



## ddraig (Nov 4, 2020)

2 parts apparently, part 2 on the Monday


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 4, 2020)

do not google don not google


Google here I come


----------



## D'wards (Nov 9, 2020)

Was well good the first part. Bit like The Wire.

I'm amused by the fact the front business is a Happy Days themed camper van business


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 9, 2020)

Second part is amazing


----------



## clicker (Nov 9, 2020)

The dashcam


----------



## D'wards (Nov 9, 2020)

Spoiler



I too am intrigued how this bloke got caught up in it all. Looks like his wife left him, was down on his luck and did a weekly trip up the motorway every week for a wedge. Doubt he's a big player


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 9, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I too am intrigued how this bloke got caught up in it all. Looks like his wife left him, was down on his luck and did a weekly trip up the motorway every week for a wedge. Doubt he's a big player



No comment


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 9, 2020)

Watched for the first time and thought it was good. Wanted to watch past shows but it looks as though it’s been removed from BritBox


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 9, 2020)

Ayyyy


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2020)

clicker said:


> The dashcam



You couldn’t make it up. A dash cam that automatically comes on and records everything you do outside of the car ffs


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

cyril_smear said:


> You couldn’t make it up. A dash cam that automatically comes on and records everything you do outside of the car ffs





Spoiler: But



...he INTENTIONALLY turned it on!


----------



## moomoo (Nov 10, 2020)

Damn. I forgot it was on!


----------



## clicker (Nov 10, 2020)

moomoo said:


> Damn. I forgot it was on!


 you've just summed up the episode perfectly.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

I FUCKED UP


----------



## bellaozzydog (Nov 10, 2020)

Is there anywhere I can watch online I live 24 hours


----------



## D'wards (Nov 10, 2020)

bellaozzydog said:


> Is there anywhere I can watch online I live 24 hours


4od if in Blighty


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 10, 2020)

Yep, 4 on demand. I’m watching episode 2 tonight! Gripping stuff.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 10, 2020)

What struck me was just how ordinary everyone was who was involved.  Of course they were all just middlemen but I don't understand how you get into this sort of thing? Where do you get the contacts?  It didn't seem like they were deep in the criminal underworld like the hatton garden lot.

I would love to know the back stories.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Nov 10, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> What struck me was just how ordinary everyone was who was involved.  Of course they were all just middlemen but I don't understand how you get into this sort of thing? Where do you get the contacts?  It didn't seem like they were deep in the criminal underworld like the hatton garden lot.
> 
> I would love to know the back stories.



My mate the Barrister is always going on about the absolute mundanity of even serious crimes/criminals, none of it seems very high speed/leading edge/criminal genius type stuff 

He says murder is always the sorriest bunch of fuckwittery.


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

bellaozzydog said:


> My mate the Barrister is always going on about the absolute mundanity of even serious crimes/criminals, none of it seems very high speed/leading edge/criminal genius type stuff
> 
> He says murder is always the sorriest bunch of fuckwittery.




Not to wave my criminal record about like a willy but yes, your barrister mate is spot on. The ratio of ordinary bloke to actual gangster is astonishing. 

You know how you get that vibe fromsome folk that they're naughty, a bit tasty like? I'm willing to bet my Friday night biscuits that you'd not get that from 90% the cons inside most jails.


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

This two parter..... I'd fucking hate to be them blokes right now coz they'll be having the absolute granny ripped out of them inside.   

I did think the sentence for the courier bloke was a bit excessive mind you. Still, good show that was. Think I prefer it like that, I'm terms of a special over a couple episodes as opposed to a series of one or two nickings each.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Nov 10, 2020)

I felt quite sorry for the courier bloke.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> I did think the sentence for the courier bloke was a bit excessive mind you. Still, good show that was. Think I prefer it like that, I'm terms of a special over a couple episodes as opposed to a series of one or two nickings each.





ElizabethofYork said:


> I felt quite sorry for the courier bloke.



Yeah, I thought that as well and wondered about the quality of his brief.  Obviously we don't know all the evidence but I'm a bit surprised they couldn't raise a defence of

'I'm just a sad, desperate old man who lives alone in a static caravan.  I knew what I was carrying was likely dodgy but didn't ask because I'm in a desperate situation. I had no idea it was serious drugs and wouldn't have been involved if I had knew'.

Its not like he had any previous or anything.  Then again even the young Polish lad who likely did little more then unload a few boxes got given six years.  The book was well and truly thrown at this lot.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 10, 2020)

They were dealing loads of smack, no sympathy


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah, I thought that as well and wondered about the quality of his brief.  Obviously we don't know all the evidence but I'm a bit surprised they couldn't raise a defence of
> 
> 'I'm just a sad, desperate old man who lives alone in a static caravan.  I knew what I was carrying was likely dodgy but didn't ask because I'm in a desperate situation. I had no idea it was serious drugs and wouldn't have been involved if I had knew'.
> 
> Its not like he had any previous or anything.  Then again even the young Polish lad who likely did little more then unload a few boxes got given six years.  The book was well and truly thrown at this lot.



Upon reflection, it was being filmed. The beak would have taken note and whacked out lumps all round to look tough on crime in front of the cameras.


----------



## clicker (Nov 10, 2020)

Filming the 2  (very different) personal phone calls  was a good move . We got to hear them actually speak. The total 'we've fuckedupness' was palpable.


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

clicker said:


> Filming the 2  (very different) personal phone calls  was a good move . We got to hear them actually speak. The total 'we've fuckedupness' was palpable.



Oddly enough i found the second guy much more emotional affecting than the first with the phone calls. Somehting about him talking to his boy and him knowing his son will likely be married and have kids of his own when he gets out etc....


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 10, 2020)

ddraig said:


> They were dealing loads of smack, no sympathy



Its possible to have sympathy on a human level and still think they had it coming and punishment is richly deserved.  You could easily make the same argument about an addict in that there would be no heroin related problems at all if there was no market for it.  Doesn't mean I can't have sympathy for some addicts.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 10, 2020)

I’ve been fascinated with Encrochat since it first got busted, at the same time I can’t quite believe that that many serious crims put that much trust in it. But then again, I’m mindblown by the incriminating stuff that gets shared on Facebook. I once deleted a post on a group I admin where someone was asking for mdma to help his heroin addict friend who was clucking. Mate, it’s a public group, WTAF?


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

Thank god most criminals are thick as shit eh?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 10, 2020)

pinkmonkey said:


> I’ve been fascinated with Encrochat since it first got busted, at the same time I can’t quite believe that that many serious crims put that much trust in it. But then again, I’m mindblown by the incriminating stuff that gets shared on Facebook. I once deleted a post on a group I admin where someone was asking for mdma to help his heroin addict friend who was clucking. Mate, it’s a public group, WTAF?


yup and bang to rights with 2 phones on the go!


----------



## clicker (Nov 10, 2020)

I couldn't work out who got charged with what amount? Or does it not come down to actual individual amounts. The lorry and the car had vastly different amounts.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 10, 2020)

clicker said:


> I couldn't work out who got charged with what amount? Or does it not come down to actual individual amounts. The lorry and the car had vastly different amounts.


yes it did seem rushed at the end! Would like to have seen the bit where they proved main guy was "Jaguar Palace" etc


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

Eh...... I honestly don't think they did get the real main guy.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> Eh...... I honestly don't think they did get the real main guy.


I wondered that but it said in the text at the end that the Brooks bloke was "Jaguar Palace"


----------



## clicker (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> Eh...... I honestly don't think they did get the real main guy.


But they showed Brooks the mobile phone data, showing Jaguar Palaces phone and his phone were always close to each other...and one switched on as one switched off. He didn't deny it. 
I do wonder if we were deliberately not shown everything.


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

ddraig said:


> I wondered that but it said in the text at the end that the Brooks bloke was "Jaguar Palace"





clicker said:


> But they showed Brooks the mobile phone data, showing Jaguar Palaces phone and his phone were always close to each other...and one switched on as one switched off. He didn't deny it.
> I do wonder if we were deliberately not shown everything.




I get all that, I just kinda think there's people above Jaguar Palace in the chain.


----------



## clicker (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> I get all that, I just kinda think there's people above Jaguar Palace in the chain.


Ah yes, undoubtedly.  I wondered how far they would trace the drugs back. But it could be that they just had to  target the people involved once it was imported. UK soil and all that. 
It definitely left more questions than answers.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

Of course they obfuscated!

'Oh gee, this is how all our big busts happen, completely found the load by accident, and wow, what luck, a dodgy phone...'


----------



## BoxRoom (Nov 10, 2020)

Just watching part 2 now.

“Any mental health issues?”
“Just my knees.”


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> Eh...... I honestly don't think they did get the real main guy.


 Agreed.


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

cyril_smear said:


> Agreed.



These guys were patsys, nothing more or less.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> These guys were patsys, nothing more or less.


The courier was more of a pastie TBF


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> The courier was more of a pastie TBF



Ohhhhh, that's an insult almost as grievous as his 9 and a half year stretch.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> These guys were patsys, nothing more or less.



Yeah I got the impression there were much bigger operators below them in the chain as well.  Its not like they had a big distribution web in the UK.  These guys were just logistics likely involved because they were so normal and not on any Police radars.  

Beyond the silliness of the dashcam there were some right schoolboy mistakes.  Setting up a business front but not attempting to operate as a legit business in anyway? Carrying his clean phone and dodge phone at the same time switched on?  All very amateurish.


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah I got the impression there were much bigger operators below them in the chain as well.  Its not like they had a big distribution web in the UK.  These guys were just logistics likely involved because they were so normal and not on any Police radars.
> 
> Beyond the silliness of the dashcam there were some right schoolboy mistakes.  Setting up a business front but not attempting to operate as a legit business in anyway? Carrying his clean phone and dodge phone at the same time switched on?  All very amateurish.



The more I think on it, the more I can see their big fish bubbling them up to the old bill, let them catch a case whilst more gear flows in through another method. Police are happy, they got a win they can wave on TV, the higher ups the criminal chain have just paid their tax and everyone's a winner. Except for the simple simons doing between 6 to 21 year that is.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

They didn't even seem to have any mechanisms in place to launder their money!


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 10, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> They didn't even seem to have any mechanisms in place to launder their money!



"You've seen them on 24 Hours In Police Custody but making their debut on Britain's Thickest Criminals...."


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2020)

21 stretch up ya arse at 50 year old! That’s rough. I’d have been singing like a canary. 

How on earth did they get mixed up with that.


----------



## clicker (Nov 10, 2020)

The luxurious life of 'Jaguar Palace' - the man behind Herts' biggest drugs bust
					

The multi millionaire had fancy cars and holidays, but will now spend 21 years behind bars




					www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk
				



Even Brooks had no previous according to his local paper.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

tonysingh said:


> "You've seen them on 24 Hours In Police Custody but making their debut on Britain's Thickest Criminals...."


And the coppers kept banging on about how their unit only dealt with the very smartest crooks...


----------



## ddraig (Nov 10, 2020)

The extrapolation of "they've had this many deliveries times this amount of cash" was just that, no proof that what was in the previous deliveries!


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2020)

ddraig said:


> The extrapolation of "they've had this many deliveries times this amount of cash" was just that, no proof that what was in the previous deliveries!


Read the article a few posts up. It sounds like he was doing it for anybody who would give him enough money. Silly man, why would you start getting involved in stuff like that at 50 year old.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 10, 2020)

cyril_smear said:


> Read the article a few posts up. It sounds like he was doing it for anybody who would give him enough money. Silly man, why would you start getting involved in stuff like that at 50 year old.


Yeah I read that. Didn't cover that in the prog tho, just saw that there were x deliveries


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2020)

ddraig said:


> Yeah I read that. Didn't cover that in the prog tho, just saw that there were x deliveries



Considering it was nearly 3 hours worth of TV as well.


----------



## On Fire (Nov 11, 2020)

pinkmonkey said:


> I’ve been fascinated with Encrochat since it first got busted, at the same time I can’t quite believe that that many serious crims put that much trust in it.



Yes definitely EncroChat gave criminals a false sense of security. I can't see how it was any more secure than using WhatsApp or Signal on a password protected iPhone or Android phone.
Ultimately, it turned out to be less secure than that because according to Wikipedia the entire thing got hacked and busted by European police joint operation. EncroChat's server was in France and had malware put on it by the police.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 11, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Of course they obfuscated!
> 
> 'Oh gee, this is how all our big busts happen, completely found the load by accident, and wow, what luck, a dodgy phone...'


Because I’ve got nothing better to do (BIG LIE) I went on a Google oddysey and discovered that Brooks wife was director of warehousing/haulage companies (obviously both fronts too) at the same address, obviously with these programmes they’re not gonna reveal much are they?
If it weren’t for being the police, I’d have loved a job like this, or in forensics, I’m a natural nosey bastard  investigator.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 11, 2020)

On Fire said:


> Yes definitely EncroChat gave criminals a false sense of security. I can't see how it was any more secure than using WhatsApp or Signal on a password protected iPhone or Android phone.
> Ultimately, it turned out to be less secure than that because according to Wikipedia the entire thing got hacked and busted by European police joint operation. EncroChat's server was in France and had malware put on it by the police.



Yeah good point. They may well just have used WhatsApp on a cheap burner smart phone.  You can get brand new smart phones for less than a £100 now as well not the thousands these things cost.


----------



## On Fire (Nov 11, 2020)

The police can apply for wiretaps that would show the contents of SMS text messages, but not WhatsApp (which is end to end encrypted). Most lower level drug dealers seem to prefer plain old SMS though.


----------



## Maggot (Nov 11, 2020)

Did anyone notice that JaguarPalace bore more than a passing resemblence to Badgers ?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 11, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah good point. They may well just have used WhatsApp on a cheap burner smart phone.  You can get brand new smart phones for less than a £100 now as well not the thousands these things cost.


I think the way that Encrochat phones were marketed alone would've made the cops absolutely desperate to get on those servers and see what was there. <Puts on Lhoyd Grossman voice>.  Who would use a phone like this?        Features | EncroChat


----------



## Jay Park (Nov 11, 2020)

Let’s all be assuming about how organised criminals go about their business, condemn them, yet still allow them to profit through our spliff whizz and cocaine parties


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2020)

Sounds good to me


----------



## rummo (Nov 11, 2020)

I wonder how long supply was disrupted for as a result of that whole police operation?

I'd guess a matter of hours.

The whole system is a nonsense. There has been a generation of Plod etc whose entire careers have been spent fighting the war on drugs. And by the time they retire there's more out there than when they started.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 2, 2020)

This is still on, right? I overextended myself synchronising a catch-up then part 2 then utterly forgot about the rest of it.


----------



## BCBlues (Dec 2, 2020)

5t3IIa said:


> This is still on, right? I overextended myself synchronising a catch-up then part 2 then utterly forgot about the rest of it.



Yeah it's still on the All4 player, both episodes (not sure about outside uk)


----------



## moomoo (Dec 2, 2020)

Was it just the two episodes?


----------



## BCBlues (Dec 2, 2020)

moomoo said:


> Was it just the two episodes?



Yeah. Pretty good too.


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Dec 2, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Carrying his clean phone and dodge phone at the same time switched on?  All very amateurish.



Encro phones and clean phones are the same phone. The Encro part accessible with a code. That's why they were always 'close by'


----------



## AverageJoe (Dec 2, 2020)

Did not know that. Everyday is a lesson


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Dec 2, 2020)

AverageJoe said:


> Did not know that. Everyday is a lesson



They also have different phone numbers to make them seem like different phones to the masts. The main 'benefit' of Encro is it had a kill button which would wipe the phone, unfortunately for them it doesn't delete pings to masts


----------



## neonwilderness (Dec 2, 2020)

moomoo said:


> Was it just the two episodes?


There was another two parter back in January which was also part of season 9 and pretty interesting. I don’t think there’s been any more since the two cartel episodes though. 

I’ve recently started watching them all from season 1. It’s pretty good background telly.


----------



## On Fire (Dec 3, 2020)

josef1878 2.0 said:


> Encro phones and clean phones are the same phone. The Encro part accessible with a code. That's why they were always 'close by'



I don't think this is true, because according to Wikipedia,  "The EncroChat service was available for handsets, whose GPS, camera and microphone functions were disabled by the company for privacy reasons."





__





						EncroChat - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




The GPS, camera, and microphone were physically removed from the handsets, according to Vice:

"Encrochat's phones are essentially modified Android devices, with some models using the "BQ Aquaris X2," an Android handset released in 2018 by a Spanish electronics company, according to the leaked documents. Encrochat took the base unit, installed its own encrypted messaging programs which route messages through the firm's own servers, and even physically removed the GPS, camera, and microphone functionality from the phone. Encrochat's phones also had a feature that would quickly wipe the device if the user entered a PIN, and ran two operating systems side-by-side. If a user wanted the device to appear innocuous, they booted into normal Android. If they wanted to return to their sensitive chats, they switched over to the Encrochat system. The company sold the phones on a subscription based model, costing thousands of dollars a year per device."









						How Police Secretly Took Over a Global Phone Network for Organized Crime
					

Police monitored a hundred million encrypted messages sent through Encrochat, a network used by career criminals to discuss drug deals, murders, and extortion plots.




					www.vice.com


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Dec 3, 2020)

On Fire said:


> I don't think this is true, because according to Wikipedia,  "The EncroChat service was available for handsets, whose GPS, camera and microphone functions were disabled by the company for privacy reasons."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Dec 3, 2020)

I've highlighted the relevant bits and reposted them. It's the same phone using two operating systems.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 3, 2020)

neonwilderness said:


> There was another two parter back in January which was also part of season 9 and pretty interesting. I don’t think there’s been any more since the two cartel episodes though.
> 
> I’ve recently started watching them all from season 1. It’s pretty good background telly.


Yeah, I assumed this two parter was the start of a new series, but after some _exhausting_ googling it turns out it’s part of series 9, where the first two parts were those in January, and there’s no more scheduled. Well, not currently scheduled weekly on c4 for 6 eps or whatever.
I suppose (?) it’s been challenging to get anything substantial filmed during 2020, so I’ll wait 👍🏼


----------



## ddraig (Jan 2, 2021)

Back on Monday with another 2 parter! 
Trailer looks good 

Channel 4 Mon 04 Jan, 9pm
*Black Widow - Part One *


----------



## ddraig (Jan 4, 2021)

2 minute warning!


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 4, 2021)

Ooh. That was good


----------



## moomoo (Jan 4, 2021)

AverageJoe said:


> Ooh. That was good


 
It was!


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 4, 2021)

I got 15 minutes in then a mate phoned me, so I’ll have to watch the rest on catch up or get a torrent


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

Feels sorry for the ex and the cheated on BF. Might be some twists yet. That faining illness thing, 9f that's what she is doing, is very very manipulative. Classic sign of a dark personality


----------



## quiet guy (Jan 5, 2021)

I know that there is an element of selective presentation of the facts but she does come across as one very conflicted, manipulative personality.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 5, 2021)

Yup. A cracking first parter last night. Looking forward to seeing if there is a twist in the second part tonight. The convenient back flare up - and the manc cop reaction - was darkly hilarious. I suspect we’ll be learning more about that tonight...


----------



## Anju (Jan 5, 2021)

Hoping that she gave Earl her ex's address and that he went to check the place out or contacted someone and passed the details on so at least they can be done for conspiracy to commit murder.

It's also going to be interesting to see how she copes when her usual methods for getting / maintaining control fail to work.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 5, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> I know that there is an element of selective presentation of the facts but she does come across as one very conflicted, manipulative personality.



She came across as an out and out narcissist.  Everybody in her life is there to serve a purpose for her, if you can't than you are worthless to her.  If she doesn't get her way she'll kick and scream until she does.  Remind you of any toupee wearing US politician?


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jan 5, 2021)

Earl....the stuff of nightmares.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

mystic pyjamas said:


> Earl....the stuff of nightmares.


Yes. Reminds me of lads I grew up with. Permantly 16. A "right laugh" until you cross them. Malevonant presence. When in the pub, everyone would have their eye on them.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 5, 2021)

I should have waited until next week so I could watch both episodes back to back.

I wasn’t sure what to make of it until that bit with the car  Looks like there’s going to be more revelations next week too.


----------



## moomoo (Jan 5, 2021)

neonwilderness said:


> I should have waited until next week so I could watch both episodes back to back.
> 
> I wasn’t sure what to make of it until that bit with the car  Looks like there’s going to be more revelations next week too.



Episode 2 is on now.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

neonwilderness said:


> I should have waited until next week so I could watch both episodes back to back.
> 
> I wasn’t sure what to make of it until that bit with the car  Looks like there’s going to be more revelations next week too.


part 2 is on now


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

she's got them by the balls.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

they might see through the game but she's the master.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 5, 2021)

neonwilderness said:


> I should have waited until next week so I could watch both episodes back to back.
> 
> I wasn’t sure what to make of it until that bit with the car  Looks like there’s going to be more revelations next week too.



Second episode is on now, it's only 2 parts.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

lol the nurse said pacific instead of specific.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 5, 2021)

Anyone remember David Charlton from the strangeways program?


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 5, 2021)

Just looked again and it looks like they’re showing both parts again next Monday. I assumed that was the second ep.

I’ll watch part 2 on +1 or catch up


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Anyone remember David Charlton from the strangeways program?



Haven't you got a belt David?

Al fuckin belt you in a minute!!


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

i dont think i've eye rolled at someone so much as her. 

or am i being insensitive?


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> i dont think i've eye rolled at someone so much as her.
> 
> or am i being insensitive?



she certainly looks to be enjoying that cucumber and carrot wrap anyway.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

she's actually chiling. that's proper psychopath territory, no?


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

*deletestinder


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 5, 2021)

Glad nothing happened to Earl. He's just a big daft get. 

Graham's fucked when she gets out though.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Glad nothing happened to Earl. He's just a big daft get.
> 
> Graham's fucked when she gets out though.


yes, mind changed about him. could see that he was just trying to impress her by talking a load of bollocks.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Glad nothing happened to Earl. He's just a big daft get.
> 
> Graham's fucked when she gets out though.


the thing is he actually got charged with conspiracy and would have got more jail time than her!


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> yes, mind changed about him. could see that he was just trying to impress her by talking a load of bollocks.



I think it's called the getting ya end away defence.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

her face was permanently "local resident points at pot hole" sad face. permantly. 

genuienly miserable, depressed, suffering people have a range of facial emotions. her constant sad face i found actually creepy.


----------



## moomoo (Jan 5, 2021)

I want to know where she got all that money from!


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

moomoo said:


> I want to know where she got all that money from!



Cash in hand hod carrying. Hence the back.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 5, 2021)

Me too!
e2a in response to moomoo


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

moomoo said:


> I want to know where she got all that money from!


inhereted and then cashed? so she can be quick at hand to get the ex whiped out?


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Glad nothing happened to Earl. He's just a big daft get.
> 
> Graham's fucked when she gets out though.


Graham is _fucked. _she'll be out in four mate!


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

(((((graham)))))


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jan 5, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Glad nothing happened to Earl. He's just a big daft get.
> 
> Graham's fucked when she gets out though.


Yeah I tend to agree after watching the second part. ADHD and  mental health issues as explained by his mum showed Earl as being just as much of a victim as the other guys.


----------



## Callie (Jan 5, 2021)

moomoo said:


> I want to know where she got all that money from!


Why has she got loads of empty sma tins??? It's that s bit fucking weird. Don't get me wrong I'm sure they're useful (for stashing your ££££s) but her kid is how old now? so why has Vicky got sma tins?!

(Btw I'm not drunk, I just don't check for typos before posting )


----------



## moomoo (Jan 5, 2021)

mystic pyjamas said:


> Yeah I tend to agree after watching the second part. ADHD and  mental health issues as explained by his mum showed Earl as being just as much of a victim as the other guys.



His mum wasn’t exactly the full ticket though was she?


----------



## moomoo (Jan 5, 2021)

Callie said:


> Why has she got loads of empty sma tins??? It's that s bit fucking weird. Don't get me wrong I'm sure they're useful (for stashing your ££££s) but her knees ds plus how old now so why has Vicky got sma tins?!



Clearly she saved them in case they’d come in handy one day for storing £18k.


----------



## quiet guy (Jan 5, 2021)

The cogs and wheels were whirling away all the time she was pushing back about the food at that first interview as she knew she could play the medical card. Feel sorry for people who are so manipulative of others. None of the guys really had much of chance with her.


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jan 5, 2021)

((((( look out Graham he’s got a gun))))).


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

Callie said:


> Why has she got loads of empty sma tins??? It's that s bit fucking weird. Don't get me wrong I'm sure they're useful (for stashing your ££££s) but her knees ds plus how old now so why has Vicky got sma tins?!



Probably because she was as mad as a box of frogs?


----------



## ddraig (Jan 5, 2021)

moomoo said:


> His mum wasn’t exactly the full ticket though was she?


Reckon they were smoking a spliff?


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 5, 2021)

you have to wonder why she only got a 9 year sentence? Most people would get a minimum of 9 years at the least.


----------



## smmudge (Jan 5, 2021)

Out of interest would the police be able to seize that money if there was no evidence it was from the proceeds of crime? Can they take it away if they show it was intended to do a crime?


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

smmudge said:


> Out of interest would the police be able to seize that money if there was no evidence it was from the proceeds of crime? Can they take it away if they show it was intended to do a crime?


asking for a friend?


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

no way, i'd think, unless gotten through illigal means


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 5, 2021)

smmudge said:


> Out of interest would the police be able to seize that money if there was no evidence it was from the proceeds of crime? Can they take it away if they show it was intended to do a crime?



I should hope not


----------



## smmudge (Jan 5, 2021)

Lol just thinking if she's still got the means, she's probably now also in one of the best places to ask around if anyone knows anyone who will off a person.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

Garham, if your car alarm goes off, run in the garden, ffs. not hte front one.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 5, 2021)

smmudge said:


> Lol just thinking if she's still got the means, she's probably now also in one of the best places to ask around if anyone knows anyone who will off a person.


all part of the master plan


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 6, 2021)

“I’m about to lose my shit here” (vegan wrap-gate)

“I loved her. I didn’t like her very much, but I loved her.” poor Graham reflects on his 10 week relationship

“Do you know any nutters back in Scotland”

“can I take the sick bowl with me?”

“He had a reputation. In Bletchley”

A classic, if slightly chilling, investigation


----------



## Mogden (Jan 6, 2021)

Bugger me that was interesting.  I'd love to know her history when growing up.  Unfortunately I can see a lot of similar traits in someone I know who I've flagged to others as having sociopath tendencies. Not sure whether old Vicky qualifies as socio or psychopathic but she's definitely got the antisocial personality disorder thing going on. I do love that she thought she could keep delaying and that would stop it all happening. Doesn't work like that love!


----------



## Mogden (Jan 6, 2021)

She was 39 when sentenced last year!! Must have been that hard paper round when she was a nipper that put her back out


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 6, 2021)

Mogden said:


> Bugger me that was interesting.  I'd love to know her history when growing up.  Unfortunately I can see a lot of similar traits in someone I know who I've flagged to others as having sociopath tendencies. Not sure whether old Vicky qualifies as socio or psychopathic but she's definitely got the antisocial personality disorder thing going on. I do love that she thought she could keep delaying and that would stop it all happening. Doesn't work like that love!


She previously got away with a similar thing, so maybe she was deluding herself.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

Mogden said:


> Bugger me that was interesting.  I'd love to know her history when growing up.  Unfortunately I can see a lot of similar traits in someone I know who I've flagged to others as having sociopath tendencies. Not sure whether old Vicky qualifies as socio or psychopathic but she's definitely got the antisocial personality disorder thing going on. I do love that she thought she could keep delaying and that would stop it all happening. Doesn't work like that love!


if it was balanced, that was a pretty chilling portrait of a very, very, very dark personality. 

there are some truly dangerous people out there. i feel sorry for anyone who has to share a cell with her.

maybe she'll look deep within and change things round.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 6, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> maybe she'll look deep within and change things round.



Maybe. Or maybe the jail sentence will simply further file her self constructed version of what has befallen her, who’s to blame and her palpable sense of being the victim.

I’d imagine the performative health crises will be a nightmare for the screws as well...


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

the relationship dynamics were interesting - sort of a trail of "captured" blokes - besotted with her. I think sometimes the darker someone is inside, the more they can have this power over someone - like they compensate for the inner darkness with charm. So when you fall for them, you fall deeply. and then it's too late - and before you know what you're setting fire to an X's car. Love's a terrible risk. Gotta watch for those red flags in the dating game, no joke.


----------



## Mogden (Jan 6, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> if it was balanced, that was a pretty chilling portrait of a very, very, very dark personality.
> 
> there are some truly dangerous people out there. i feel sorry for anyone who has to share a cell with her.
> 
> maybe she'll look deep within and change things round.


Unlikely she'll change.  Similar,  although not as dangerous, people I've met will delude themselves and other people into thinking the used up and worn out ones were the problem and she's still squeaky clean. There's a lot of truth in if someone's exes, whether relationships or friendships, are all "nutters" maybe it's not the exes that are the problem!


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Maybe. Or maybe the jail sentence will simply further file her self constructed version of what has befallen her, who’s to blame and her palpable sense of being the victim.
> 
> I’d imagine the performative health crises will be a nightmare for the screws as well...


yes, and i would think, to a degree, a very affective strategy. "no, i can't go to the kitchen to work, i'm sick" - how, as a screw, do you handle that?


----------



## Mogden (Jan 6, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> yes, and i would think, to a degree, a very affective strategy. "no, i can't go to the kitchen to work, i'm sick" - how, as a screw, do you handle that?


Restrictions. Like they did with the food. We'll absolutely stick to what you say so if you say you're too sick to work you can stay on the prison hospital wing with no communication with other prisoners and minimal contact from meds. She does not win and she's then got no one to coerce. She'll have a flat out rage within hours and demand to go back to work.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 6, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> yes, and i would think, to a degree, a very affective strategy. "no, i can't go to the kitchen to work, i'm sick" - how, as a screw, do you handle that?



They’ll just leave her locked in I guess. The point is it’s unlikely that the experience of prison will cause her to rethink. Its more like that the narrative explanation of what has happened to her, in her own head, will become more deeply embedded by the process. If I was her ex or one of the fellas who testified I wouldn’t be happy that she’s likely to be back on the streets in 4 years time


----------



## Mogden (Jan 6, 2021)

The very worst thing they could do with her and people like her would be to put them in that super quiet place, an ultimate padded cell,  I think it's somewhere on the continent where you can hear every tiny movement of your own body and might even be negative  decibels?! and give them a good amount of time in there. They would implode.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

Mogden said:


> Unlikely she'll change.  Similar,  although not as dangerous, people I've met will delude themselves and other people into thinking the used up and worn out ones were the problem and she's still squeaky clean. There's a lot of truth in if someone's exes, whether relationships or friendships, are all "nutters" maybe it's not the exes that are the problem!


my sister is a psychologist and she said one of the key factors in personality, no matter what the persons behaviour, is the idea of self reflection. This is where guilt and shame can be seen as healthy. It's when there is no self reflection that people can be hurt in the most cruel ways, because the source of explanation for the abuser is *always *external. She has dealt with arseholes, but the ones she knows will change are the ones who carry the shame and internally struggle with their behaviour. she has met others though who literally have no idea that they are the sources of the cruelty. if you're being abused, it's truly terrifying when the abuser sees you and you only as the reason for the abuse. 

she seems the same.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

Mogden said:


> Restrictions. Like they did with the food. We'll absolutely stick to what you say so if you say you're too sick to work you can stay on the prison hospital wing with no communication with other prisoners and minimal contact from meds. She does not win and she's then got no one to coerce. She'll have a flat out rage within hours and demand to go back to work.


yes, thought that was damn savvy of the checking in cop. i probably would have dithered around it and maybe conceeded. he knew the boundaries to set exactly.


----------



## Mogden (Jan 6, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> my sister is a psychologist and she said one of the key factors in personality, no matter what the persons behaviour, is the idea of self reflection. This is where guilt and shame can be seen as healthy. It's when there is no self reflection that people can be hurt in the most cruel ways, because the source of explanation for the abuser is *always *external. She has dealt with arseholes, but the ones she knows will change are the ones who carry the shame and internally struggle with their behaviour. she has met others though who literally have no idea that they are the sources of the cruelty. if you're being abused, it's truly terrifying when the abuser sees you and you only as the reason for the abuse.
> 
> she seems the same.


Partly shown by gas lighting to make the victim themselves feel they are the problem and convince others of the same. If someone is reading this now and they're in a relationship where the other person will never EVER admit they are wrong despite damning evidence to the contrary, please reconsider the relationship.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

Mogden said:


> Partly shown by gas lighting to make the victim themselves feel they are the problem and convince others of the same. If someone is reading this now and they're in a relationship where the other person will never EVER admit they are wrong despite damning evidence to the contrary, please reconsider the relationship.


trump is the embodiment of this.

can you imagine, EVER, EVER, him sitting down and saying "...you know, I was wrong about that. I got that wrong. I should have considered that. I should have done that differently."

It's just not within him.


----------



## Numbers (Jan 6, 2021)

Really enjoyed it.  What a horrible person.

I didn’t for second think she was vegan.


----------



## Mogden (Jan 6, 2021)

Numbers said:


> Really enjoyed it.  What a horrible person.
> 
> I didn’t for second think she was vegan.


She was out for blood.  Surely that automatically makes her not vegan


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

i think with the true sociopath, the really bad ones, all the good eventually gets sucked out. there is no redeeming features. even her banter with the appropriate adult was cold and empty of anything like connection.

now, not all criminals are like this. bad people can have good sides. like good people can have bad sides. sometimes the ying is bigger than the yang, but there's still the yang!

but i do think these truly dangerous folk - the mechanism of their personality get so dark that they just become shells and the extreme selfishness just takes over. i wouldn't want to be anywhere near her. feel sorry for the Xs.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 6, 2021)

hope she turns it around!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 6, 2021)

Mogden said:


> She was out for blood.  Surely that automatically makes her not vegan



And she happily drank the tea, despite stating 'this probably isn't vegan either'....


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2021)

Surely with these things the dead giveaway is that nobody is blobbed. Even if the accused, after being found not guilty eventually gave consent, in this context the cops press would never allow it and the TV lawyers would still never let the program pass.


----------



## smmudge (Jan 6, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Surely with these things the dead giveaway is that nobody is blobbed. Even if the accused, after being found not guilty eventually gave consent, in this context the cops press would never allow it and the TV lawyers would still never let the program pass.



Yeah I always know from the start they got their conviction because of that reason, doesn't make it any less interesting though!

And in fairness even the final conviction and sentence can be surprising, for instance the case where the man threw his mother over the balcony.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2021)

smmudge said:


> Yeah I always know from the start they got their conviction because of that reason, doesn't make it any less interesting though!
> 
> And in fairness even the final conviction and sentence can be surprising, for instance the case where the man threw his mother over the balcony.


In work in telly making cop shows an the like and the access here is incredibly surprising. Masterful even. To build up that amount of trust with the cops, the cops press and lawyers is almost inconceivable. They way they have gotten around a lot of the legal restrictions on filming is also very impressive. To get these stories they must have been working on an absolute shit load of cases that went nowhere or didn't get a conviction. Then they have to sit on the final product for perhaps as long as a year for all convictions and appeals to be settled, something most production companies would not be willing to do. . . . Then after all that it could all just be wiped out by suicide threat.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jan 6, 2021)

I thought the interview with the bloke living on the barge looked like it was done with a concealed camera. Bit morally dubious but I guess he gave consent in the end.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 6, 2021)

It reminded me of this woman, who I knew in my past work life. 
She was offering money on Facebook for someone to hurt someone shortly before the kidnapping incident.

Jail won't do anything for her, or Vicky. They'll make friends among vulnerable women there who'll be sympathetic towards her and who she can call on in future.









						South Yorkshire woman faked kidnap plot to frame neighbour who wouldn’t have sex with her
					

Shaelynn Stewart claimed she was bundled into a black Audi by two men, who punched her and locked her in a "dark room" somewhere in Sheffield, on March 12.




					www.thestar.co.uk


----------



## ddraig (Jan 6, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> And she happily drank the tea, despite stating 'this probably isn't vegan either'....


IIRC she said "probably not gluten free" which is a stupid thing to say about a cuppa, unless it was soup!


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 6, 2021)

Indeliblelink said:


> I thought the interview with the bloke living on the barge looked like it was done with a concealed camera. Bit morally dubious but I guess he gave consent in the end.


Bodycam footage maybe? They've used that in other episodes.


----------



## ash (Jan 6, 2021)

Did anyone hear the ‘appropriate adult’ say about her photo on her ID card- ‘at least I don’t still look like a serial killer’.  Nothing very appropriate about that 😂😂


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jan 6, 2021)

It looked like it was in something (a bag maybe) that had been placed lying on a table or shelve so it was facing the bloke, I suppose one of the cops might of been leaning against it.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 6, 2021)

ddraig said:


> IIRC she said "probably not gluten free" which is a stupid thing to say about a cuppa, unless it was soup!



You are right. I’d forgetten the gluten allergy!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2021)

Indeliblelink said:


> I thought the interview with the bloke living on the barge looked like it was done with a concealed camera. Bit morally dubious but I guess he gave consent in the end.


I didn't see it but a concealed camera would not be allowed. If it was on the cop it would have to be the cops own official work camera and not one the TV company pinned on him. They would then have to go through official channels to obtain a copy of that footage, probably post conviction. Any TV camera has to be fully visible and the owner of the property has to give consent at the time of filming unless the cops have a warrant even then they have to declare who the camera is filming for and why.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 6, 2021)

I wondered if the confined space of the boat and time constaints may have led to that shot. Looked like a copper could have propped a phone up in the corner to film the statement which I'm guessing could be used in the same way as interview room footage with the agreement of the witness.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> I wondered if the confined space of the boat and time constaints may have led to that shot. Looked like a copper could have propped a phone up in the corner to film the statement which I'm guessing could be used in the same way as interview room footage with the agreement of the witness.



I don't think the copper needs the agreement of the witness. Just as long as he is following police procedure and using police kit and NOT anything provided by the TV company/crew. Sometimes cops have their own crew to follow them for assessment/training purposes. It's probably crossing the line the TV company to ask for this, and it's a grey area to ask cops to set up cameras. Bodycam is ok.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jan 6, 2021)

Just caught the 2 parts on catchup. What I thought was missing were details about Rob & Vicky's split. Was there an explanation around why Rob was given custody of their daughter. This is not to say Rob was obviously going to be a better parent but all her rage revolves around that event quite understandably.


----------



## clicker (Jan 7, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Just caught the 2 parts on catchup. What I thought was missing were details about Rob & Vicky's split. Was there an explanation around why Rob was given custody of their daughter. This is not to say Rob was obviously going to be a better parent but all her rage revolves around that event quite understandably.


I don't think they gave any background to their break up, or I missed it if they did. But I think they said Vicky hadn't seen her daughter for 7 years.
Possibly not giving details for confidentiality in respect of their daughter.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jan 7, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Just caught the 2 parts on catchup. What I thought was missing were details about Rob & Vicky's split. Was there an explanation around why Rob was given custody of their daughter. This is not to say Rob was obviously going to be a better parent but all her rage revolves around that event quite understandably.


I would be interested in that too, for completeness. I mean, the part 2 twist _could _conceivably have been that Rob did this and that and she had a somewhat understandable (though obvs morally and legally highly dubious) reason for wanting him offed. But no mention.

I also agree that the appropriate adult woman was...inappropriate. She had a few 🤪 facial expressions during the interview too.

It was interesting that the pay-off info text at the end, wrt to outcomes, started with 'found not guilty.....on one count [out of the four]'. We figure that count must have been Hamish the Boat as he had no one to corroborate his statement as she visited him alone to quiz him about nutters, rather than the German Break Down guy, who was quizzed in front of Wayne etc. 

Good stuf, as usual. Ginger Rage and You-Won't-Fucking-Believe-This guy were good value but I can't help but think some of the language and reaction to the offender were pretty sexist....in that she was painted as evil and manipulative in a tone that few of the men are. But that's not a discussion I would wish to take any further


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jan 7, 2021)

5t3IIa said:


> Good stuf, as usual. Ginger Rage and You-Won't-Fucking-Believe-This guy were good value but I can't help but think some of the language and reaction to the offender were pretty sexist....in that she was painted as evil and manipulative in a tone that few of the men are. But that's not a discussion I would wish to take any further


She was certainly manipulative and preyed on certain men. At the end of the day here was a women losing it due to no access to her daughter for 7 years. This seemed to be forgotten in the conclusion.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 7, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> She was certainly manipulative and preyed on certain men. At the end of the day here was a women losing it due to no access to her daughter for 7 years. This seemed to be forgotten in the conclusion.


Don’t you think certain types of people tend to gravitate towards one another though?


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 7, 2021)

Given everything her ex said had happened I think she was fucked up long before meeting him or having a child although I would agree it gave her a focus from thereon.

I've read she had 2 other children. I'm gonna hazard a guess that they were removed from her care. The offence she wasn't convicted of seems to have involved her handyman lover, Daniel Proctor who I don't think appeared in the program.









						Mom tried to have ex murdered thrice after losing custody battle, court hears
					

A mother tried to persuade three separate men to murder her former husband after he won sole custody of their child.




					www.iol.co.za


----------



## rutabowa (Jan 7, 2021)

Courts are usually very keen to make sure both parents get access,  you'd have to do something pretty bad to be completely stopped (afaik).


----------



## Dandred (Jan 8, 2021)

She was only caught because of that one guy, imagine how many other men and women behave like this. 

Shocking .


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 8, 2021)

I'm bored daft tonight.

There was a show, can't remember how long ago, where 3 guys turned up to evict a drug dealer called love or valentine, or some such from a female friends house, and subsequently ended up killing him. They all got lifed off after one of the guys thought he would get off with it if he bubbled theother two involved. Any body remember the names of the guys involved? Solely for reading thwe case to the pass my time.


----------



## MBV (Jan 8, 2021)

this: Who was Courtney Valentine-Brown and why is his death on TV? ?


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 8, 2021)

dfm said:


> this: Who was Courtney Valentine-Brown and why is his death on TV? ?



thank you


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 8, 2021)

dfm said:


> this: Who was Courtney Valentine-Brown and why is his death on TV? ?


it wasnt 24 hours in police custody it was a different program.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 8, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> it wasnt 24 hours in police custody it was a different program.











						Murder 24/7 - Series 1: Episode 1
					

The critical first two days of the investigation into the murder of a man in his flat.




					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 8, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Murder 24/7 - Series 1: Episode 1
> 
> 
> The critical first two days of the investigation into the murder of a man in his flat.
> ...


I’m watching it as we speak. Stupidity all round from this bunch.


----------



## MBV (Jan 8, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> it wasnt 24 hours in police custody it was a different program.



Yep as the article says.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 8, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> I’m watching it as we speak. Stupidity all round from this bunch.


Not exactly criminal masterminds


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 8, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Not exactly criminal masterminds


I was getting more at the fact they jthrew their lives away.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 9, 2021)

Indeliblelink said:


> I thought the interview with the bloke living on the barge looked like it was done with a concealed camera. Bit morally dubious but I guess he gave consent in the end.


We’re just waiting for her to come out of prison and set up home on the river here, we’re ready, we’ve met a few similar.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 9, 2021)

pinkmonkey said:


> We’re just waiting for her to come out of prison and set up home on the river here, we’re ready, we’ve met a few similar.


She'll have had some experience of locks I guess


----------



## salem (Jan 12, 2021)

Another great episode, I've only seen the one with the drug importers that was on before Christmas and though it was a special. Is this the normal format of the show then? Worth watching previous series?

I felt sorry for pretty much everyone in the show, even the main woman was just utterly miserable and had deep seated issues that needed resolving. I was surprised she got so long. Obviously we didn't see all the evidence but the the only thing that made me thinks she was serious was the prior arson - which wasn't admissible in court (or would it have been for sentencing?).

I'll certainly be a bit more careful with my flippant remarks about stringing up certain politicians when I've had a beer!



moomoo said:


> Clearly she saved them in case they’d come in handy one day for storing £18k.


I thought Graham said there was £23k there and then when they counted it there was £18k - may have been a coincidence but I thought it interesting that there was a £5k discrepancy which was mentioned as the amount she'd offered to have Rob bumped off.



BigMoaner said:


> they might see through the game but she's the master.



They've got to play the game too, no point in them having the whole lot chucked out because she hasn't had due process.



moomoo said:


> His mum wasn’t exactly the full ticket though was she?



She had the demeanour of someone who'd lived a hard life and was worn down. I felt really sorry for her.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 12, 2021)

salem said:


> Worth watching previous series?



Absolutely worth it. From the first episode it's been really good telly.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Feb 2, 2021)

That was mega


----------



## ddraig (Mar 18, 2021)

New series 9pm Monday!!
22 March
*"Bedfordshire's Most Wanted"*


----------



## xsunnysuex (Mar 22, 2021)

Another reminder. New series tonight!


----------



## moomoo (Mar 22, 2021)

xsunnysuex said:


> Another reminder. New series tonight!



Thanks!


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2021)

ddraig said:


> New series 9pm Monday!!
> 22 March
> *"Bedfordshire's Most Wanted"*


Must not google the case, must not google the case!

It looks like an interesting one.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Absolutely worth it. From the first episode it's been really good telly.


They can be difficult to find. I think the daily motion has a fair few hosted.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 22, 2021)

8 minute warning!


----------



## ddraig (Mar 22, 2021)

Oh wow! proper proper scumbag 
allegedly


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2021)

They already have my full interest. What a fucking piece of shit.


----------



## moomoo (Mar 22, 2021)

Ugh.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2021)

Bloody hell. This guy is a monster.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2021)

Good work, cops.


----------



## moomoo (Mar 22, 2021)

Wonder if he was watching the show from his cell.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2021)

He deserves every second of that sentence if he did what was said. 

He reminded me of that Joseph McCann who got 30 years I.e an off the rails nut case.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Mar 22, 2021)

What a fucking creature 

absolutely worthy of any prison violence he is on the receiving end of


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2021)

moomoo said:


> Wonder if he was watching the show from his cell.


I watched it with my mum and I said to her that I bet everybody in the jail will be watching this.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Mar 22, 2021)

moomoo said:


> Wonder if he was watching the show from his cell.


Hopefully all the other people he's imprisoned with will have seen it too.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2021)

He'll be on the nonce wing, he'll be safe enough.


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 22, 2021)

I was glad they made it clear his dad had cooperated. Up to the first adverts I was thinking 'what exactly is the relevance of him being a traveller? and having the police talking about how usually travellers don't want to speak to the police?'.

And unless he actually said 'I'm only talking to you because it's a rape and that breaks our code', I don't believe that shit either.


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 22, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> He reminded me of that Joseph McCann who got 30 years I.e an off the rails nut case.



Defo, felt like he was possibly at the start of a spree.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2021)

kebabking said:


> He'll be on the nonce wing, he'll be safe enough.


He will be as of 8am tomorrow morning anyway...


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2021)

kebabking said:


> He'll be on the nonce wing, he'll be safe enough.



I’ve been in prison with people(maybe not as bad) like him, and they try and bullshit their way through it; maybe they have a mate or two who is willing to overlook it because, when he’s not being a nonce cunt, they are one of the lads.


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 22, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> I was glad they made it clear his dad had cooperated. Up to the first adverts I was thinking 'what exactly is the relevance of him being a traveller? and having the police talking about how usually travellers don't want to speak to the police?'.
> 
> And unless he actually 'I'm only talking to you because it's a rape and that breaks our code', I don't believe that shit either.



think this was offences was  against other traveller girls...

not because any of the image of the girls involved


just the way his mother reacted when he called

mostly because she believe the allegations before  the moment she talks to him

also he was shouting at her to come to court, because he knew he was going down


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 22, 2021)

just a shame he only got 18 years and not the rest of the convictions


----------



## bellaozzydog (Mar 22, 2021)

This case could have been documented without any reference to his GRT background


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Mar 22, 2021)

The bit at the beginning when he said "this place is full of nonces and rapists"

Yep and one more now. Horrible little cunt


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 22, 2021)

bellaozzydog said:


> This case could have been documented without any reference to his GRT background



it was his own mouth who brought it up

I'm going to scream and shout before declaring no comment


----------



## bellaozzydog (Mar 22, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> it was his own mouth who brought it up
> 
> I'm going to scream and shout before declaring no comment



i’m railing against this shit today, I had the misfortune to have to watch crime watch this morning and their top criminals to look out for were either foreign or “spoke with Irish accents”

it’s like the fuckers can’t find any “English” criminals    to chase after


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 22, 2021)

are we sure about which community he is from or just that he shouted it to the police

and aye also have some experience with the whole which accent has he got sort of stuff


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 23, 2021)

I've done a fair share of bird, I deserved my stretches. This absolute fucking shitcunt tonight? I swear down, there's cons right now kicking their doors and shouting to him. Big hard man attacking everyone but someone who'd fight back. I lay odds he's cowering in his flowery right now. Even if, as other posters here have stated, he's on the numbers, he ain't safe. He's gonna have an interesting few days either way. 

Sorry for the rant but fuck, he is an odious no mark. I feel dirty saying this, my family would disown me if they hadn't already done so, but well done the old bill for nicking him.


----------



## tony.c (Mar 23, 2021)

It was really brave of the girls to report him and give evidence in court. I can't help thinking there were other victims who didn't. It seemed he had a set pattern for committing these vile attacks.


----------



## purenarcotic (Mar 23, 2021)

the girls were so brave. His poor children too; your dad being a rapist is not an easy burden to carry.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2021)

Utter scum with not a single redeeming feature.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 23, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Utter scum with not a single redeeming feature.



Each crime either acquisitive or involving  vulnerable children and the elderly. The type who always attaches himself to harder lads in the hope that nobody notices that they are a coward.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

bellaozzydog said:


> i’m railing against this shit today, I had the misfortune to have to watch crime watch this morning and their top criminals to look out for were either foreign or “spoke with Irish accents”
> 
> it’s like the fuckers can’t find any “English” criminals    to chase after


Railing against what? A vile little cunt, who case was very newsworthy?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 23, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Railing against what? A vile little cunt, who case was very newsworthy?


  they're talking about crimewatch not 24hrs in police custody! it's quite clear


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

ddraig said:


> they're talking about crimewatch not 24hrs in police custody! it's quite clear



Maybe because, rightly or wrongly, it’s easier for people in minorities to disappear🤷‍♂️ Surely you’d want the wider public to be alert to dangerous individuals?


----------



## tony.c (Mar 23, 2021)

I was surprised that the crime scene investigators didn't find his mobile phone in his jacket which was left in car until police asked them to look for it.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 23, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Maybe because, rightly or wrongly, it’s easier for people in minorities to disappear🤷‍♂️ Surely you’d want the wider public to be alert to dangerous individuals?


What are you even on about?


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 23, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> think this was offences was  against other traveller girls...
> 
> not because any of the image of the girls involved
> 
> ...



Weird...Was any of this actually in the program or is it just in your head?

There was no mention of where the girls came from or who they were. I don't recall hearing the mother speak so how do you know if she believes him or not? And how do you know what he was thinking?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> There was no mention of where the girls came from or who they were.


It was mentioned that both girls were from traveller families, and that they didn't know each other. I think it was implied that they lived on different sites.


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 23, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> It was mentioned that both girls were from traveller families, and that they didn't know each other. I think it was implied that they lived on different sites.



Ah, thanks, I must've missed that.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> It was mentioned that both girls were from traveller families, and that they didn't know each other. I think it was implied that they lived on different sites.


I must have missed that part...


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Ah, thanks, I must've missed that.


I didn’t hear it either


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Ah, thanks, I must've missed that.


This episode in particular I think was artfully edited together, so several of the pieces of footage seem to be played out of sequence to better serve the narrative the film makers wished to present. Similarly early on they are making fruitless inquiries around a housing estate where nothing seems to be happening (visually), but they still keep it in, perhaps to bulk up the sequence on a traveller site where they are asking about the suspect but the two women are adamant they don't know him, which then leads into a bit where a copper is describing how travellers won't speak to the police (in general), which is later revisited in terms of 'but if it's a nonce then the wall of silence crumbles'. It all sort of works but on closer examination some of the pieces don't look like they naturally fit together, at least not without exposition which doesn't necessarily chime with the actual footage.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

ddraig said:


> What are you even on about?


Well you said you were sick of seeing people with accents on crimewatch, and I suggested that it’s easier for people in minorities/people with accents to disappear, so perhaps that’s why they are making appeals on national tv to find them🤷‍♂️ I don’t know what your problem is; or do you want criminals running around the place?

Edit... and it wasn’t even your post I was replying to, so maybe keep your beak out.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 23, 2021)

"yeh, just a...two foot machete"


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 23, 2021)

cops doing what they should do - protecting the public, no more no less. when they are good like this, they are really good. 

think it is important to remember. 

a whole world of justified criticisms against them too, of course.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 23, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Well you said you were sick of seeing people with accents on crimewatch, and I suggested that it’s easier for people in minorities/people with accents to disappear, so perhaps that’s why they are making appeals on national tv to find them🤷‍♂️ I don’t know what your problem is; or do you want criminals running around the place?
> 
> Edit... and it wasn’t even your post I was replying to, so maybe keep your beak out.


Hang on, I didn't say that so maybe an apology instead of "keep your beak out"?

You do know how social media works right? People can and do respond, not up to you who can respond or not.

Still don't get why you think it's easier for minorities and people with accents to "disappear", is this based on any actual evidence or a weird "hunch"/issue of yours?


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Still don't get why you think it's easier for minorities and people with accents to "disappear", is this based on any actual evidence or a weird "hunch"/issue of yours?



Less lines of enquires because, sadly, minorities and natives don’t seem to mingle🤷‍♂️ There’s no sinister insinuations.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 23, 2021)

amazing work from the two young girls too.

always found these wreckless, heartless criminals fascinating. i know environmental factors play a *huge* part, but it's nto the whole picture, is it? more going on. utterly mysterious, if you ask me.


----------



## muscovyduck (Mar 23, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Still don't get why you think it's easier for minorities and people with accents to "disappear", is this based on any actual evidence or a weird "hunch"/issue of yours?


because if you stick out it's easier for you to hide yeah


----------



## ddraig (Mar 23, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> because if you stick out it's easier for you to hide yeah


init, very strange "logic"


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> because if you stick out it's easier for you to hide yeah



Stick out? Care to explain

If somebody “stuck out”, your words not mine, there would be no need for an appeal to help find them.

I can’t fathom your reasoning here?


----------



## MBV (Mar 23, 2021)

This is on at 9pm BBC 2:









						BBC Two - The Detectives: Fighting Organised Crime, Series 1, Episode 1
					

Specialist detectives hunt a gang suspected of committing violent kidnaps in Manchester.




					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 23, 2021)

dfm said:


> This is on at 9pm BBC 2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve had a few diazes but I’m half watching it.


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 23, 2021)

first guy clearly not on a heavy dose of roids 

spots and rage

jebus how bad are criminal these days.. 

linked to the site by newish cars


----------



## moomoo (Mar 23, 2021)

Is 24 hours on again next week or was it another one off?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 23, 2021)

moomoo said:


> Is 24 hours on again next week or was it another one off?


On next week as new series








						24 Hours in Police Custody
					

The landmark series that follows police detectives as they investigate major crimes



					www.channel4.com


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 23, 2021)

its a new 4 part series methinks

next episode is next monday 


the bbc series is no bad either same narrator methinks


----------



## bellaozzydog (Mar 23, 2021)

That was a cracker.....violent and chaotic but amateur as fuck 

phones, car nav and dna


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Mar 23, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Ah, thanks, I must've missed that.



Me too


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Mar 23, 2021)

dfm said:


> This is on at 9pm BBC 2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very good that. I was reading a MEN article tonight re this type of kidnapping and in just one two day period recently there had been four!


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 23, 2021)

dfm said:


> This is on at 9pm BBC 2:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


another belter.

what a shower. and horrible fucking crimes. that guy's beating, jesus.


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 23, 2021)

Just watched that, lots of familiar places. The Maine rd dead end was where my mates lived when I first moved to Manchester. The flat they were looking for Darren Berkeley was Hulme not moss side.

And Carlos buller was convicted of assault years ago after his appearance on come dine with me was repeated and someone resigned him. Anyone who was clubbing in Manchester late 80s through 90s would know of his brother Fonzo....or MVITA, (Manchester Vibes In The Area).









						Come Dine With Me contestant's pub attack caught on CCTV
					

Carlos Buller was caught on CCTV hitting Anthony Hargreaves in a pub brawl, but police were unable to identify him. But he was caught after apparently being spotted taking part as a contestant on the hit Channel 4 cookery show. Interior designer Buller, 45, was arrested on suspicion of assault...




					www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 24, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> And Carlos buller was convicted of assault years ago after his appearance on come dine with me was repeated and someone resigned him. Anyone who was clubbing in Manchester late 80s through 90s would know of his brother Fonzo....or MVITA, (Manchester Vibes In The Area).



Ooh, interesting stuff 









						Manchester legend MVITA talks of Stones Roses, raves and the Madchester madnessvv
					

Manchester legend MVITA talks of Stones Roses, raves and the Madchester madness




					louderthanwar.com


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 24, 2021)

bellaozzydog said:


> it’s like the fuckers can’t find any “English” criminals    to chase after



Just coincidentally in watching crinwatch and don’t see what your problem is? If he speaks with an Irish accent and is in England where Irish accents aren’t common then why not mention it🤷‍♂️ It’s like saying you don’t like them mentioning the massive scar he has on his face as a distinguishing feature... I think some folk take offence just for the sake of it nowadays.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 24, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Just coincidentally in watching crinwatch and don’t see what your problem is? If he speaks with an Irish accent and is in England where Irish accents aren’t common then why not mention it🤷‍♂️ It’s like saying you don’t like them mentioning the massive scar he has on his face as a distinguishing feature... I think some folk take offence just for the sake of it nowadays.


You want to keep this up?


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 24, 2021)

ddraig said:


> You want to keep this up?


Not particularly, as I said it was just coincident I had it on in the background and, I assume, the chap the other poster referred to popped up again today. They did also mention his massive scar as well as his(not very common in England) accent, by the way.


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 24, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Just watched that, lots of familiar places. The Maine rd dead end was where my mates lived when I first moved to Manchester. The flat they were looking for Darren Berkeley was Hulme not moss side.
> 
> And Carlos buller was convicted of assault years ago after his appearance on come dine with me was repeated and someone resigned him. Anyone who was clubbing in Manchester late 80s through 90s would know of his brother Fonzo....or MVITA, (Manchester Vibes In The Area).
> 
> ...


 
Just to correct something. Carlos In the detectives is apparently son of CDWM Carlos.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 29, 2021)




----------



## Shechemite (Mar 29, 2021)

Ah fuck I forgot it was on. Was watching something on YouTube about Disraeli


----------



## ddraig (Mar 29, 2021)

Oh man  tough


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2021)

veyr tough


----------



## MBV (Mar 29, 2021)

Just sad for all involved.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2021)

shoudl have got about 6 years in my view, if that. but no sooner than that because he's obvisouly dangerous in his current state. 22 years is sick.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 29, 2021)

22 years is pointless, utterly pointless. The dude could have gotten therapy, sorted himself out and that in with a sentence of say 5 or 6, with a portion of that in a secure forensic unit. 

22 years in big man jail will only turn him into an even angrier and much dangerous person upon release, assuming he makes it through. 

I totally get his victims anger, that's understandable and especially so when one considers that he's not from that life were violence is the norm. I really, truly hope the guy finds peace after such a traumatic experience. Its awfully sad that he felt he had to move back to Poland to recover. 

However, my thoughts tonight are with the fella looking down the barrel at a lump. It's just...i wasn't expecting the end credits to say that he got that long. I also hope that the screws on his houseblock have the savvy enough to put him on suicidewatch right fucking now and for a while ahead. Seeing that on telly must feel like being sentenced again.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2021)

The tears struck me. Having watched so much true crime over the years on TV etc, you rarely ever get tears. Normally just seering difiance, anger, or rationalisation. The guy tonight was broken and you could see he was owning his shit. Like finally having hit bottom and there's no where else to look other than oneself. I've been there with drink and it was that period of finally owning it all that made me quit.


----------



## BigMoaner (Mar 29, 2021)

That scene where the poor Polish bloke is lying prostate fighting for his life. 

Not sure of the ethics of it all, but it's certainly a compelling series.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 30, 2021)

Bloody fell asleep!


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 30, 2021)

Very good episode. The end where the solicitor was reading his history just reminded me of so many care leavers I've met who could've been sat there. Few would've had the insight to say the sort of things he did. I couldn't help wondering what made him snap aside from the exhaustion of carrying around so much anger. At 21 his realtionship with Children's Services would end and as bad as that might've been they're possibly the only consistent presence in his life. Many would've internalised the anger and killed themselves before harming others and I wondered what creates that difference. As the episode last week reminded me of Joseph McCann I thought of Jonty Bravery who killed the kid after insisting there was somethigng wrong with him and he needed services.

I guessed he might get about 12 years but a random attack on a stranger with no apparent motive and the impact statement provided by him trumps childhood trauma in court. Most people can't comprehend the impact of being abused and of neglect on brain development but the fear of being attacked is ever present. I really wonder how someone lwho's had such a shitty upbrining even begins to try to make sense of the world. Even with 12 years do 8 and license after it might've been a chance to change but with 15 years before parole is considered he's gonna need to dig very deep to have any sort of meaningful future. Very sad indeed.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 30, 2021)

Sheesh... the next 16 year to think about it!

This is why you don’t get involved in guns. A lad, not a friend, I know got ten year just for shooting the bonnet of a car... no intent to endanger life or any of that, no members of the public nearby.... ten year! He was 19.

What a waste.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 30, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Very good episode. The end where the solicitor was reading his history just reminded me of so many care leavers I've met who could've been sat there. Few would've had the insight to say the sort of things he did. I couldn't help wondering what made him snap aside from the exhaustion of carrying around so much anger. At 21 his realtionship with Children's Services would end and as bad as that might've been they're possibly the only consistent presence in his life. Many would've internalised the anger and killed themselves before harming others and I wondered what creates that difference. As the episode last week reminded me of Joseph McCann I thought of Jonty Bravery who killed the kid after insisting there was somethigng wrong with him and he needed services.
> 
> I guessed he might get about 12 years but a random attack on a stranger with no apparent motive and the impact statement provided by him trumps childhood trauma in court. Most people can't comprehend the impact of being abused and of neglect on brain development but the fear of being attacked is ever present. I really wonder how someone lwho's had such a shitty upbrining even begins to try to make sense of the world. Even with 12 years do 8 and license after it might've been a chance to change but with 15 years before parole is considered he's gonna need to dig very deep to have any sort of meaningful future. Very sad indeed.


From what I could gather he had a relationship with his kids, and the mother, so it wasn’t like he lost all stability when care dumped him(and thst is what happens to care leavers by the way). A very troubled young man indeed, and I fear the next 15 years in prison won’t reform him in any way whatsoever 🤷‍♂️


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 30, 2021)

Also,  he pleaded guilty to attempted murder... schoolboy error... he could have argued it down to wounding


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 30, 2021)

The adults who failed him as a child, they deserve a bit of a slap imho.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 30, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> From what I could gather he had a relationship with his kids, and the mother, so it wasn’t like he lost all stability when care dumped him(and thst is what happens to care leavers by the way). A very troubled young man indeed, and I fear the next 15 years in prison won’t reform him in any way whatsoever 🤷‍♂️





cyril_smear said:


> Also,  he pleaded guilty to attempted murder... schoolboy error... he could have argued it down to wounding




Yeah, he's hardly a master criminal, i grant you that. All the more reason to offer him a glimmer of hope I'd say. 

Hopefully, and it might be a long old shot, but he could maintain that relationship with his kids. There's programmes in jail to facilitate that.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 30, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Also,  he pleaded guilty to attempted murder... schoolboy error... he could have argued it down to wounding



A point blank shot centimetres from the heart, would be a big ask to get that down to wounding.

Was an excellent episode though, clearly no one wants violent nutters walking around shooting randoms, that's a nightmare scenario and you want the key thrown away, but then to show the other side of the coin, really strains at the emotions.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> A point blank shot centimetres from the heart, would be a big ask to get that down to wounding.
> 
> Was an excellent episode though, clearly no one wants violent nutters walking around shooting randoms, that's a nightmare scenario and you want the key thrown away, but then to show the other side of the coin, really strains at the emotions.


How often do you hear of attempted murder cases? The only person who knows if he was trying to kill the victim was the perpetrator; unless there is proof of pre planning... wound/gbh with intent and attempted murder carry very similar sentences anyway🤷‍♂️


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 30, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Hopefully, and it might be a long old shot, but he could maintain that relationship with his kids. There's programmes in jail to facilitate that.



15 years... hate to say it but he will lose what ever he had on the out, and in 15 years when he gets out we’ll probably see him on 24 hours in police custody for another serious offence... you lose what little you have, and you lose hope🤷‍♂️ Those lads on long stretches rarely make the best of their time inside, they just get more and more angry.

I’ve seen too many just throw their life away spending 2 year in prison a few months out, 2 years in prison a few months out ad infinitum.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 30, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> 15 years... hate to say it but he will lose what ever he had on the out, and in 15 years when he gets out we’ll probably see him on 24 hours in police custody for another serious offence... you lose what little you have, and you lose hope🤷‍♂️ Those lads on long stretches rarely make the best of their time inside, they just get more and more angry.
> 
> I’ve seen too many just throw their life away spending 2 year in prison a few months out, 2 years in prison a few months out ad infinitum.




Same as that mate, I guess I was just trying to see a glimpse of light through the cell door.


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 31, 2021)

is "attempt_ed_" one too many syllables?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 31, 2021)

The last page of this thread indicates a significant amount of sympathy for the perp. The gist of it seems to be the length of the sentence and the fact that this will be unlikely to rehabilitate him and will simply produce an angrier and more dangerous individual upon release. I suspect that's largely true. 

But, here's the thing. If I remember correctly he had been arrested 26 times previously for robbery, drugs offences and other offences that carried either no sentence or a short one. Presumably his lawyers offered the same arguments then as they did on this occasion. So, given that the previous 26 attempts failed why would a 27th succeed? 

Put another way, is there any evidence at all that a shorter sentence succeed could succeed in persuading him that shooting and threatening total strangers with a gun is a bad thing?


----------



## Thora (Mar 31, 2021)

Prison doesn’t work you mean?


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 31, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The last page of this thread indicates a significant amount of sympathy for the perp.



_Massive snip_

Not from me


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 31, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The last page of this thread indicates a significant amount of sympathy for the perp. The gist of it seems to be the length of the sentence and the fact that this will be unlikely to rehabilitate him and will simply produce an angrier and more dangerous individual upon release. I suspect that's largely true.
> 
> But, here's the thing. If I remember correctly he had been arrested 26 times previously for robbery, drugs offences and other offences that carried either no sentence or a short one. Presumably his lawyers offered the same arguments then as they did on this occasion. So, given that the previous 26 attempts failed why would a 27th succeed?
> 
> Put another way, is there any evidence at all that a shorter sentence succeed could succeed in persuading him that shooting and threatening total strangers with a gun is a bad thing?




Being arrested 26 times isn't the same as 26 convictions, much less 26 custodial sentences. I'm willing to bet that any custodial sentences he did get were barely a handful of weeks. In other words, not even close enough to address whatever issues he clearly has. I'm also willing to lay odds that any jail time he had done was spent near enough 24/7 behind the door with zero rehabilitation, education, work or therapy opportunities. 

The dude was clearly young enough to sort himself out, with assistance from the authorities. 15 years stir simply won't do that. So yes, I have sympathy for him, just as I do his victim. 

A shorter sentence could sort him, assuming the time was spent addressing his offending behaviour. Otherwise punitive sentences are pointless and a waste of money. 




Thora said:


> Prison doesn’t work you mean?



There's also this. The penal system in this country is knackered. It needs reform at every level and every point. As it is, it's doing much more harm than good.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 31, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The last page of this thread indicates a significant amount of sympathy for the perp. The gist of it seems to be the length of the sentence and the fact that this will be unlikely to rehabilitate him and will simply produce an angrier and more dangerous individual upon release. I suspect that's largely true.
> 
> But, here's the thing. If I remember correctly he had been arrested 26 times previously for robbery, drugs offences and other offences that carried either no sentence or a short one. Presumably his lawyers offered the same arguments then as they did on this occasion. So, given that the previous 26 attempts failed why would a 27th succeed?
> 
> Put another way, is there any evidence at all that a shorter sentence succeed could succeed in persuading him that shooting and threatening total strangers with a gun is a bad thing?



It did also say that the vast majority of those crimes were committed whilst a juvenile.


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 2, 2021)

Wouldn't say I have sympathy for him. I've had enough trauma in my life to know that a sense of justice is healing and necessary for closure. That polish bloke was nothing to him as he fired the bullet. He has the propensity to see people as trash, okay enough to fire bullets into. 

But that is no justification for punitive inhuman sentencing. As I say, 6 years noparole and a shit load of help. The sentence because justice is as human as love or loyalty etc.  The help because he himself has probably had a tough life and needs it find peace. Prisoners probably need more help than anyone in this society. But victims also need justice.


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 2, 2021)

Justice makes the victim feel seen, that the pain is acknowledged. That they were not to blame. Its societies way of saying "what you want through is real. It had nothing to do with you. We have your back".


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 2, 2021)

That's why victims breakdown in court. All that self blaming and self doubt finally vanished with a guilty verdict. The felt somewhere that they were blameless and now someone has finally acknowledged it fully and comprehensively.


----------



## Dandred (Apr 2, 2021)

That's what you get for getting involved with guns.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Apr 5, 2021)

Fascinating episode tonight. 
Poor bloke.


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Apr 5, 2021)

Indeliblelink said:


> Fascinating episode tonight.
> Poor bloke.


  Jesus Christ. Estimated 100,000 people enslaved  in uk !


----------



## ddraig (Apr 5, 2021)

Indeliblelink said:


> Fascinating episode tonight.
> Poor bloke.


Mad AF! Amazing survival skills

Easy to say of course but if he was up for telling the cops "everything" (according to his sister) then could've maybe gone in asda and asked staff to ring em


----------



## marshall (Apr 5, 2021)

I've just checked out an aerial shot of the woods where he hid for four/five years and it's not like it's even 'deep in the woods', it's a small patch of trees near some houses and what looks like a playing field. Just weird that you can tuck yourself away like that and not get spotted or hassled by kids or something. Mad story.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 5, 2021)

That poor bloke. Its almost incomprehensible to be so scared that you live in isolation like that.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 6, 2021)

That was mad. 

And to think he managed to live for five years in the woods, 50m from the local asda and the police still couldn't find him. 

One could summise they didn't want to.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 6, 2021)

AverageJoe said:


> That was mad.
> 
> And to think he managed to live for five years in the woods, 50m from the local asda and the police still couldn't find him.
> 
> One could summise they didn't want to.


Yeah, the top copper was giving it about how much they "cared" and "wanted to solve" the case but they'd closed it so bollocks pr/damage limitation


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 6, 2021)

It was only when the Facebook account appeared that things started to move. Until then, he was just another statistic.

It's actually a bit odd that it's included in this series as it shows the failings of Cambridshire police


----------



## Mogden (Apr 6, 2021)

I thought the way his name was pronounced differently, at least 3 different versions, throughout the investigation, spoke volumes.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 6, 2021)

AverageJoe said:


> That was mad.
> 
> And to think he managed to live for five years in the woods, 50m from the local asda and the police still couldn't find him.
> 
> One could summise they didn't want to.





ddraig said:


> Yeah, the top copper was giving it about how much they "cared" and "wanted to solve" the case but they'd closed it so bollocks pr/damage limitation





AverageJoe said:


> It was only when the Facebook account appeared that things started to move. Until then, he was just another statistic.
> 
> It's actually a bit odd that it's included in this series as it shows the failings of Cambridshire police





Mogden said:


> I thought the way his name was pronounced differently, at least 3 different versions, throughout the investigation, spoke volumes.



All of this smacks loudly of immigrants being more or less invisible really, of little consequence. 

I forget what crop it was but that shot of people tending to a field was somewhat haunting. How many of those could go missing or be kept their against their will and the authorities only give a derisory shit at best?


----------



## tony.c (Apr 6, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> I forget what crop it was


Leeks.


----------



## quiet guy (Apr 7, 2021)

It's surprising the number of people who are over here but out of sight to the vast majority of us. When language is a barrier and people have a fear of authority due to the fear mongering and shear bloody mindedness of the Home Office, it must feel safer to just drop out of sight and keep below the radar.


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 12, 2021)

Fucking hell. 16 months!?


----------



## quiet guy (Apr 12, 2021)

Yes that's just not right. She'll be out and latch onto some other poor bloke and the whole cycle will happen again. She won't change as she doesn't see she has done anything wrong.


----------



## clicker (Apr 12, 2021)

I missed the sentencing bit....why so short??Was the brain examination unable to link it as a cause?


----------



## Petcha (Apr 12, 2021)

4OD crapped out on me at the crucial moment so I missed the sentencing too. 16 months does seem a bit light but maybe he had an underlying heart condition? He didn't actually die of the brain injuries technically.


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 12, 2021)

clicker said:


> I missed the sentencing bit....why so short??Was the brain examination unable to link it as a cause?



The judge said something like there wasn't enough evidence to say the assault caused his death.. I was most surprised because she was only just out after her previous sentence.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Apr 12, 2021)

I’ve been knobbled  the last two episodes 

people fucking pile in the house right at the point where they announce the sentences

DON’t TALK!!!! GET OUT THE WAY OF THE TELLY


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 13, 2021)

16 months for killing someone. 

Fucking outrageous. 

I can only speak to male prisons but there's geezers in there doing a life ride for killing in similar way. You can see in how she came across that she didn't give a fuck, that she didn't see how she was in the wrong. Right at the start there was a horrible little bit where she did what a lot abusers do and blamed the victim. "look what you made me do" kinda thing.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Apr 13, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Fucking hell. 16 months!?



That was one of the saddest 24 episodes I've watched. The sentence was utterly baffling.


----------



## sovereignb (Apr 13, 2021)

Never given my full attention with this show, but yesterday was something else. Since there was a max of life for intentional GBH, surely the sentence she got was just outright wrong? Truly baffling


----------



## moomoo (Apr 13, 2021)

Just watched it. Utterly heartbreaking.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Being arrested 26 times isn't the same as 26 convictions, much less 26 custodial sentences. I'm willing to bet that any custodial sentences he did get were barely a handful of weeks. In other words, not even close enough to address whatever issues he clearly has. I'm also willing to lay odds that any jail time he had done was spent near enough 24/7 behind the door with zero rehabilitation, education, work or therapy opportunities.
> 
> The dude was clearly young enough to sort himself out, with assistance from the authorities. 15 years stir simply won't do that. So yes, I have sympathy for him, just as I do his victim.
> 
> ...



You have to ask is it worth handing out a sentence for, lets say, common assault or some other petty offence of e.g. 4 months every 12 months or so, or do you just keep letting people get off with petty shit until they end up feeling like they won't be punished and decide to use a knife rather than a fist. I dunno. 

Those short sentences are nearly always spent in a local jail with no stability, no education, no reformation etc. anyway... it's a fine line.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 13, 2021)

Going to watch it tonight. 

But sentencing is so constricted now by guidelines that judges have little leeway and few sentences are appealed either up or down. Even then the change is usually only minor.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 13, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> You have to ask is it worth handing out a sentence for, lets say, common assault or some other petty offence of e.g. 4 months every 12 months or so, or do you just keep letting people get off with petty shit until they end up feeling like they won't be punished and decide to use a knife rather than a fist. I dunno.
> 
> Those short sentences are nearly always spent in a local jail with no stability, no education, no reformation etc. anyway... it's a fine line.


There is no evidence that really supports short sentences doing anything to help crime reduction.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

clicker said:


> I missed the sentencing bit....why so short??Was the brain examination unable to link it as a cause?



Correct, and they are encouraged not to plead until the cause of death is proved. For example... how much heroin did Mr. Jones have in his system before he was repeatedly kicked in the head? Enough to kill him? And people do get away with it sometimes.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> Going to watch it tonight.
> 
> But sentencing is so constricted now by guidelines that judges have little leeway and few sentences are appealed either up or down. Even then the change is usually only minor.



Always an exception to the rule. I got a total of 5 months not long ago -2m2m1m all consecutive- appealed it and got them all concurrent... I walked out on the last court day before Christmas


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> There is no evidence that really supports short sentences doing anything to help crime reduction.



or vice versa, which is why I said it's a thin line.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 13, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Always an exception to the rule. I got a total of 5 months not long ago -2m2m1m all consecutive- appealed it and got them all concurrent... I walked out on the last court day before Christmas


I didn't say that it did not happen. Just that it is a waste of time and money. The Scottish governnent is trying to stop all short sentences. Unlikely to happen in England because of Express/Mail thinking.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 13, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> or vice versa, which is why I said it's a thin line.


Using prison without it having any real effect is a waste of resources.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> I didn't say that it did not happen. Just that it is a waste of time and money. The Scottish governnent is trying to stop all short sentences. Unlikely to happen in England because of Express/Mail thinking.



Ye, that's what I thought at the time as well, so I didn't even take an overnight bag. G4S bastards sneeringly said ''this'll be a quick search''


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> Using prison without it having any real effect is a waste of resources.



so do we allow petty crime to go unpunished? if so, for how long? it's a difficult one. Probation service is a joke anyway, now that it's a company.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 13, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> so do we allow petty crime to go unpunished? if so, for how long? it's a difficult one. Probation service is a joke anyway, now that it's a company.


Why spend money on doing something that just disrupts someone's life with no societal benefit?


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 13, 2021)

not sure if just locking people up would sort out  petty crime
and at times increase it i suppose


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 13, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Always an exception to the rule. I got a total of 5 months not long ago -2m2m1m all consecutive- appealed it and got them all concurrent... I walked out on the last court day before Christmas




You lucky cunt. I got 2 x 6 months consecutive on the last court day before Christmas.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> You lucky cunt. I got 2 x 6 months consecutive on the last court day before Christmas.



I knew I was getting a walkout as soon as they came for me in the morning, and then they took fucking hours to do all the checks before I got out of the cells.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 13, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> I knew I was getting a walkout as soon as they came for me in the morning, and then they took fucking hours to do all the checks before I got out of the cells.



That last bit, when you're in the flowery as they process your release paperwork? Fuck that's looooong. 

I swear they put the thickest fucking possible screws on reception and that.


----------



## BCBlues (Apr 13, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> That last bit, when you're in the flowery as they process your release paperwork? Fuck that's looooong.
> 
> I swear they put the thickest fucking possible screws on reception and that.



Not quite on the same level I admit but very similar to when hospitals discharge you but make you wait 9 hours for a prescription of 4 paracetamol with your discharge note


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> That last bit, when you're in the flowery as they process your release paperwork? Fuck that's looooong.
> 
> I swear they put the thickest fucking possible screws on reception and that.



This was from court though don't forget... so they had to do it all twice.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 13, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> This was from court though don't forget... so they had to do it all twice.



Then you'd expect the practise would make them really good at it.


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 13, 2021)

Clearly a very troubled woman. Vicious. In the court system in my own head I would have given her ten years.


----------



## pbsmooth (Apr 13, 2021)

They mentioned her troubled past was a factor in the sentencing. Horrible case but don't think she'd had much of a life either. Shit all round


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 13, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> Clearly a very troubled woman. Vicious. In the court system in my own head I would have given her ten years.





crojoe said:


> They mentioned her troubled past was a factor in the sentencing. Horrible case but don't think she'd had much of a life either. Shit all round




I'd compare her sentence with that guy who had an episode and went a bit off with the gun. He didn't actually kill anyone, though it was close. He got a lump, I think it was 26 years? He had a troubled past too. Mind you he was also black which adds a tax onto your sentence.


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 13, 2021)

problem with domestics is they are less reported

they guy involved even turn down a second interview

that the sort of power people like this have

and its regardless of gender


how was she not back on license for contact the victim of her initial sentence


----------



## pbsmooth (Apr 13, 2021)

Gun and you're in trouble sentence wise full stop. 
Not defending it. My missus had a "troubled past" and she's a saint, so she hates that excuse. Sentencing does seem a bit erratic


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 13, 2021)

crojoe said:


> Gun and you're in trouble sentence wise full stop.
> Not defending it. My missus had a "troubled past" and she's a saint, so she hates that excuse. Sentencing does seem a bit erratic



I had that troubled past too but that don't excuse me being a shitcunt in the present so i totally get why your missus hates that excuse. Own your shit innit?


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> I'd compare her sentence with that guy who had an episode and went a bit off with the gun. He didn't actually kill anyone, though it was close. He got a lump, I think it was 26 years? He had a troubled past too. Mind you he was also black which adds a tax onto your sentence.


Guidelines innit? He made the mistake of admitting attempted murder, with a gun🤷‍♂️   I think he had a shit soliciting


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> Using prison without it having any real effect is a waste of resources.


So is community sentencing, which probably costs more. The probation company is a joke, absolute waste.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 13, 2021)

crojoe said:


> They mentioned her troubled past was a factor in the sentencing. Horrible case but don't think she'd had much of a life either. Shit all round


And, of course, we aren’t allowed to hope something similar happens to her.


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 14, 2021)

I was looking for reports on the previous sentence but couldn't find anything. This one says the case was in court last October so she'll probably be due for release very soon if she's not out already. Also gives a little more detail of the stuff that happened to her.





__





						Murder trial dropped against Houghton Regis woman accused of killing partner
					

A murder trial against a Houghton Regis woman accused of killing her partner was sensationally dropped in court today.




					www.lutontoday.co.uk


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> So is community sentencing, which probably costs more. The probation company is a joke, absolute waste.


Community sentencing is far cheaper than imprisonment.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

Watched it. 

1/ no evidence that death was connected with the assault. Not murder, or manslaughter.
2/ insufficient evidence that GBH occurred.
3/ only ABH proved. Sentencing guidelines suggest starting point of eighteen months, maximum three years. Insufficient aggravating factors to increase above the target sentence. Some evidence of mitigating factors.
4/ looks spot on to me.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> 3/ only ABH proved.


According to the report in the local paper at post #697, she admitted the ABH, so she would also have been given a discount on her sentence for pleading guilty. I think the guilty plea discount is 30% so she would have got 27 months if she had been found guilty rather than admitting it.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

tony.c said:


> According to the report in the local paper at post #697, she admitted the ABH, so she would also have been given a discount on her sentence for pleading guilty. I think the guilty plea discount is 30% so she would have got 27 months if she had been found guilty rather than admitting it.


The starting point is eighteen months. So she received some discount for pleading guilty (don't know at what stage) and some increase to end up at sixteen months.


----------



## Petcha (Apr 14, 2021)

I have a general question about this show, its probably been covered already but this thread is 24 pages. How do they get away with filming these people and their crimes in such intimate detail and broadcasting them to the nation? Do the people in question give their consent?


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

Petcha said:


> I have a general question about this show, its probably been covered already but this thread is 24 pages. How do they get away with filming these people and their crimes in such intimate detail and broadcasting them to the nation? Do the people in question give their consent?


No consent is necessary If official police footage is used in the furtherance of justice if the person is convicted. You have no right to privacy in a police station when under arrest. You will see third parties are sometimes blurred out.


----------



## Petcha (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> No consent is necessary If official police footage is used in the furtherance of justice if the person is convicted. You have no right to privacy in a police station when under arrest. You will see third parties are sometimes blurred out.



Well, its not just 'futherance of justice'. It's one of C4's highest rating programmes and therefore advertisers will be climbing over themselves and paying top dollar to fill the ad breaks. I dont see how they can screen, for example, the guy who was shagging very young teenage girls a couple of weeks ago without his consent. He'll be a marked man now surely.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> The starting point is eighteen months. So she received some discount for pleading guilty (don't know at what stage) and some increase to end up at sixteen months.


The local paper said she pleaded guilty at start of trial.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

tony.c said:


> The local paper said she pleaded guilty at start of trial.
> 
> View attachment 263195


The discount is much lower at trial than closer to first being charged.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 14, 2021)

Petcha said:


> The guy who was shagging very young teenage girls a couple of weeks ago without his consent. He'll be a marked man now surely.



Even better


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

Petcha said:


> Well, its not just 'futherance of justice'. It's one of C4's highest rating programmes and therefore advertisers will be climbing over themselves and paying top dollar to fill the ad breaks. I dont see how they can screen, for example, the guy who was shagging very young teenage girls a couple of weeks ago without his consent. He'll be a marked man now surely.


They can do it because there is a very limited right to privacy except in private spaces. Advertising and profit are immaterial.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> The starting point is eighteen months. So she received some discount for pleading guilty (don't know at what stage) and some increase to end up at sixteen months.



The discount doesn't have to be actual time off your sentence. In my last case, I plead guilty and my credit was the case not being referred onto Crown. (Mind you, I'm still bitter about the actual sentence.  )

The killing in this show.... It reminds me a lot of the one punch deaths you see too often. You know, someone goes out and gets into a row, one punch and their victim falls n hits their head just qt the wrong angle... Hey presto, they're a killer. Them sentences run in years. I get it's within guidelines but it's the summit of a campaign of violence from her.

She lucked out with 16 months, big time. If I were her, I'd start playing the lotto straight out the gate.



Edited to add, i just looked up a case that happened a fair while back outside the football near  where I live. Two firms run at each other, one guy chins another and the other fellas brown bread. No intention to kill, explosion of anger etc etc. He only got 4 years. I thought he'd got a lot longer.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> The discount doesn't have to be actual time off your sentence. In my last case, I plead guilty and my credit was the case not being referred onto Crown. (Mind you, I'm still bitter about the actual sentence.  )
> 
> The killing in this show.... It reminds me a lot of the one punch deaths you see too often. You know, someone goes out and gets into a row, one punch and their victim falls n hits their head just qt the wrong angle... Hey presto, they're a killer. Them sentences run in years. I get it's within guidelines but it's the summit of a campaign of violence from her.
> 
> ...


As above she is not "lucky". The verdict and sentence are spot on the intention of the sentencing council.

One punch manlaughter is a major concession, not an unfair result.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> As above she is not "lucky". The verdict and sentence are spot on the intention of the sentencing council.
> 
> One punch manlaughter is a major concession, not an unfair result.



She really is lucky though, in comparison with other similar cases. She also has a record for at least one other offence, committed against the same victim plus substantial police involvement in her life. 

I can't speak to women's jails and how they run things inside. I can only use male jails as a rule and 16 months is not enough to address her offending behaviour. That's 8 months of actual time which is a long layin. Alcohol dependency and her serious mental health issues and traumatic past need dealing with really. Perhaps avoiding jail entirely and a sentence in a secure mental health facility would have been better and more compassionate, both for her and her those affected by her crime.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> She really is lucky though, in comparison with other similar cases. She also has a record for at least one other offence, committed against the same victim plus substantial police involvement in her life.
> 
> I can't speak to women's jails and how they run things inside. I can only use male jails as a rule and 16 months is not enough to address her offending behaviour. That's 8 months of actual time which is a long layin. Alcohol dependency and her serious mental health issues and traumatic past need dealing with really. Perhaps avoiding jail entirely and a sentence in a secure mental health facility would have been better and more compassionate, both for her and her those affected by her crime.


As I say, the rules were applied precisely in her case. 

I cannot speak for other examples but most anomalies become clear when the sentencing guidelines are followed.

Most anomalies are caused by ignorance and misunderstandings.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> As I say, the rules were applied precisely in her case.
> 
> I cannot speak for other examples but most anomalies become clear when the sentencing guidelines are followed.
> 
> Most anomalies are caused by ignorance and misunderstandings.



Ouch.


----------



## Border Reiver (Apr 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Ouch.


But it is so true. The popular press belly aches about a sentence but in almost all cases the sentencing falls within government approved sentencing guidelines. Now the guidelines may be wrong but that is a political, not legal, problem.


----------



## A380 (Apr 14, 2021)

Petcha said:


> I have a general question about this show, its probably been covered already but this thread is 24 pages. How do they get away with filming these people and their crimes in such intimate detail and broadcasting them to the nation? Do the people in question give their consent?


Apparently: Garden Productions go into Luton Nick and wire up custody and quite a few strategic offices and other rooms with lots and lots of HD but small CCTV cameras and microphones . They also have teams of camera operators who both float round the building and follow officers and staff outside on jobs. They also have a team of editorial interviewers who ask questions of all those involved on camera.  The filming stage doesn’t take very long six weeks or so? But they film hundreds and hundreds (thousands even?) of hours of footage. They will also go out to follow possibly  interesting stories in the wider Tri-force consortium (Beds, Herts and Cambs- firearms, MCU- major crimes or ‘murder squad’ and Roads policing traffic- boring). They will also spend a few days in the force control room for background. Finally they do conventional interviews when they have more of an idea of what stories / cases they are going to use. Apparently.

The selection of stories and editing takes a couple of years as they sort through all of the content to boil down into strong narratives.
People (suspects, witnesses, staff and cops) do have to give consent which is why some faces are blurred. Really unusually- perhaps uniquely- the force though has no editorial control. The Chief Constable when Garden Productions first started got a huge amount  of stick from NPCC for that, but it’s probably one of the reasons the programme is so good. That and the fact it must cost an absolute fortune compared with all that ‘police camera actin bang crash tosh’ made with a couple of blokes with a camera in the back of an ANPR interceptor.

Allegedly there are two types of senior officers in Beds. Those who tried their hardest  to stay away from Luton when Garden were in. And those, often those who would never be seen near a custody block or CID office normally, who can often be seen swanning round in the background- much to the derision of everyone else... Allegedly.


----------



## A380 (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> No consent is necessary If official police footage is used in the furtherance of justice if the person is convicted. You have no right to privacy in a police station when under arrest. You will see third parties are sometimes blurred out.


Hey amazing, two more topics that apparently you can be completely fucking  wrong about and yet pontificate on. Do your ignorance and arogance have any bounds?


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> The discount doesn't have to be actual time off your sentence. In my last case, I plead guilty and my credit was the case not being referred onto Crown. (Mind you, I'm still bitter about the actual sentence.  )
> 
> The killing in this show.... It reminds me a lot of the one punch deaths you see too often. You know, someone goes out and gets into a row, one punch and their victim falls n hits their head just qt the wrong angle... Hey presto, they're a killer. Them sentences run in years. I get it's within guidelines but it's the summit of a campaign of violence from her.
> 
> ...



Is that where you got the 6+6... I’d have rather gone to the crown and probably get a suspended 🤪


----------



## A380 (Apr 14, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> As I say...Most of my erroneous sweeping proclamations are caused by my ignorance and misunderstandings.



FTFY


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 14, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Is that where you got the 6+6... I’d have rather gone to the crown and probably get a suspended 🤪




Yeah, it was them cunts. Admittedly I didn't take my sentence well. 😂 I might have kicked off.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Yeah, it was them cunts. Admittedly I didn't take my sentence well. 😂 I might have kicked off.


They aren’t stupid, they know what they are doing! 

I was in Dewsbury mags cells the day that Craig Meehan was up for sentencing and the G4S bloke knew what he was getting before he’d even been in front of the district judge🤷‍♂️... he even “accidentally” left our cell unlocked and made a point of telling us who was in the cell next door! UNLOCK MEEHAN, MEEHAN IS COMING BACK... I didn’t bite... he was a little drip of a bloke anyway when I saw him walk past.


----------



## Petcha (Apr 14, 2021)

A380 said:


> Apparently: Garden Productions go into Luton Nick and wire up custody and quite a few strategic offices and other rooms with lots and lots of HD but small CCTV cameras and microphones . They also have teams of camera operators who both float round the building and follow officers and staff outside on jobs. They also have a team of editorial interviewers who ask questions of all those involved on camera.  The filming stage doesn’t take very long six weeks or so? But they film hundreds and hundreds (thousands even?) of hours of footage. They will also go out to follow possibly  interesting stories in the wider Tri-force consortium (Beds, Herts and Cambs- firearms, MCU- major crimes or ‘murder squad’ and Roads policing traffic- boring). They will also spend a few days in the force control room for background. Finally they do conventional interviews when they have more of an idea of what stories / cases they are going to use. Apparently.
> 
> The selection of stories and editing takes a couple of years as they sort through all of the content to boil down into strong narratives.
> People (suspects, witnesses, staff and cops) do have to give consent which is why some faces are blurred. Really unusually- perhaps uniquely- the force though has no editorial control. The Chief Constable when Garden Productions first started got a huge amount  of stick from NPCC for that, but it’s probably one of the reasons the programme is so good. That and the fact it must cost an absolute fortune compared with all that ‘police camera actin bang crash tosh’ made with a couple of blokes with a camera in the back of an ANPR interceptor.
> ...



Thanks for that. I'm still astonished that a suspect up for something incredibly dodgy like sex with a minor would agree to have this broadcast, without any obvious benefit to themselves.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 14, 2021)

Petcha said:


> Thanks for that. I'm still astonished that a suspect up for something incredibly dodgy like sex with a minor would agree to have this broadcast, without any obvious benefit to themselves.



The mind boggles🤷‍♂️


----------



## A380 (Apr 14, 2021)

Petcha said:


> Thanks for that. I'm still astonished that a suspect up for something incredibly dodgy like sex with a minor would agree to have this broadcast, without any obvious benefit to themselves.


God knows, I’d tell them to fuck right off personally.


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> I had that troubled past too but that don't excuse me being a shitcunt in the present so i totally get why your missus hates that excuse. Own your shit innit?


Some arrive at it, others don't.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 14, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> Some arrive at it, others don't.




Yes, but a troubled or traumatic past only works so far as an excuse for current behaviour. I totally get that I might come across as a heartless bastard at the moment but it's a subject close to my heart. As it stands right now I'm trying to take steps with a personal crisis that could end badly. 

Getting to the point you can own your shit... I'd argue that was the point of prison and lead an actual life outside, and not in the shadows. Rehabilitation as opposed to punishment but that's a hard sell to the public. 

Id put myself in the same bracket as the guy that got lumped off and the woman from Monday night. My first offence that warranted custodial? Make that longer but mandate its served in a therapeutic setting. Upon release put actual support in place as opposed to probation and that should solve most of, if not all, the issues that push as far as offending behaviour.




(fuck. I'm being deep atm.)


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 14, 2021)

I think punishment should work side by side rehabilitation.


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 14, 2021)

If I steal all my folks saving leaving them destitute, why shouldn't I stare at four walls for a while? Why should I just go straight to a therapeutic setting? Both should be working at the same time.


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Apr 14, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> If I steal all my folks saving leaving them destitute, why shouldn't I stare at four walls for a while? Why should I just go straight to a therapeutic setting? Both should be working at the same time.



Doesn't always work. My cousin did rob his parents, served 8 years for attempted murder, did beat his smack addiction. He came out rehabilitated, got a job, a girlfriend, got made redundant. He died of a methadone overdose a very long time ago.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 16, 2021)

These programmes are all incredibly sad. I'm watching the latest one now and she is clearly covered in self harm scars. I can't condone what she's done of course but everyone involved in these cases of violence always make me very sad for the people involved.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 16, 2021)

Mrs Miggins said:


> These programmes are all incredibly sad. I'm watching the latest one now and she is clearly covered in self harm scars. I can't condone what she's done of course but everyone involved in these cases of violence always make me very sad for the people involved.



At their heart lays a lack of mental health care in this country. I repeat that therapy plus compassion would be infinitely preferable to punitive punishments.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 24, 2021)

New Series on Monday at 9pm


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 27, 2021)

Fuck this is brutal.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2021)

puts it on record on +1

reminded me


----------



## Supine (Sep 27, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Fuck this is brutal.



Really hope they get this guy


----------



## moomoo (Sep 27, 2021)

They didn’t say what sentence he got did they?


----------



## Supine (Sep 27, 2021)

moomoo said:


> They didn’t say what sentence he got did they?



No


----------



## moomoo (Sep 27, 2021)

Ah. According to Twitter…

He's still awaiting sentencing, he will appear in Luton Crown Court on October 7th, he's remaining in custody until then.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2021)

OMG I forgot to watch it and now can't go back to start


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2021)

dad is fucking suspicious


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 27, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> dad is fucking suspicious


 How so? I thought his actions in releasing the video were understandable.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2021)

just odd to make the attacker go to ground so quickly in multiple countries


fustration at the police is one thing but having no real contacts and throwing that out immediately


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2021)

Brotel inforcers attacks were you live


why the fuck do they know you and where you live


----------



## pbsmooth (Sep 28, 2021)

enjoy the series and found this one interesting if very grim. but did feel they rushed the end. felt like it would have been better if they could have waited another six months and tied it all up a bit more and stuck it in next series (as if I know anything about how TV series are made/planned).


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 28, 2021)

crojoe said:


> but did feel they rushed the end. felt like it would have been better. if they could have waited another six months and tied it all up a bit more and stuck it in next series


I thought the same, it felt like lots was missed out compared to previous episodes. I was only half watching by the end, but don't think I heard any mention of a motive for the attack?


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 28, 2021)

that's the very odd part hope the revisit down the line,

something very dodgy from a guy who is help running a brothel to appear to randomly attack that house, could easily of be something far more sinister going on only stopped by the other women being in the house


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 28, 2021)

.


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 28, 2021)

Also did they find out what was stolen? The guy grabbed a couple of things before he left, but looked to me like something really specific he knew to find or just something to grab to make it look like a burglary?


----------



## pbsmooth (Sep 28, 2021)

certainly didn't seem like a random burglary - you'd bail on that when people answer the door surely. they thought he was grabbing what he believed to be a hard drive for the security camera. one possibility would be the victims were known to him for some reason but they apparently found no evidence of that and the way the male victim acted, with all the publicity etc, made it seem less likely imho.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 28, 2021)

Thought the end was rushed but I'd read there's 6 episodes in the series and assumed it would roll over to next week. One of the best things about the programs for me is the police interviews and there wasn't enough in this one.

Also felt there was more to it. If he was waiting for a plane 5 hours later I'd think there was some planning involved but It looked like he was completely unprepared and didn't have much of a plan once he was in the house. 

One explanation might be that he was at the wrong address?


----------



## Indeliblelink (Sep 28, 2021)

Isn't having CCTV inside your house a bit odd or is that something people do these days now the technology is cheap?


----------



## pbsmooth (Sep 28, 2021)

yeah, I wouldn't of thought that many people have it indoors (lots of people have the video doorbells). especially in Luton.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 29, 2021)

Really tough watching it, all of it.

As for motive it surely has to be that he went to the wrong address or got given some duff info.  Its sadly not that unusual for the homes of South Asian and South East Asian business owners to be targeted by burglars.  The assumption is there will be a lot of cash and jewellery there which there can often be.

He didn't really bother to do any robbing though.  He just seemed to quickly realise he was in the wrong place.


----------



## pbsmooth (Sep 29, 2021)

didn't really understand the violence if he was in the wrong place. could have just left after the door is answered. obviously a bit of a head case.


----------



## Supine (Sep 29, 2021)

I want to know what he took. It looked targeted and the show seemed to not even mention what it was.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 29, 2021)

Finally watched it, proper shocking psycho scumbag!

My guess is that maybe some of the women at the brothel got their nails done and he knew how much it cost and thought the bloke must be loaded? 
Or had even been to scope the business out and saw how much it was making...


----------



## D'wards (Sep 29, 2021)

Just watched and agree with all the comments on this thread. 

The guy is pure scum who should be put out of his (everyone's) misery for the common good. 

Also they went off half cocked- so many unanswered questions.


----------



## clicker (Sep 29, 2021)

Oh well, definitely disappointed with that.
The first ones in the series have been the jaw droppers in the past.

As above, what did he steal? why did he do it? where were the taped interviews? why not hang on until the sentence at least?

The violence was shocking.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 29, 2021)

They reckoned he took the thing that he thought was the CCTV hard drive, looked more like a DVD player/Cable TV box imo


----------



## BigMoaner (Oct 4, 2021)

If you're fighting in the street with hammers, you're not doing it right!!

Liked Robert


----------



## BigMoaner (Oct 4, 2021)

Always pretty compelling tv


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 4, 2021)

do kinda worry about the fella if he does not get clean and does not move

no wait wtf the fuck

they take kilos from your garage and garden and you get 2.8 years and caught in possession of a shotgun with no futher action 
aside from a fight related to a business that is still going 


someone tell me who the lawyers are


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 4, 2021)

Just catching up on +1 
The legal rep for the Parvez brothers riding around with the personalized plate R999 LAW  and stressing they do a lot of good work for charity


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 4, 2021)

sure they charge quite a lot but they are almost as good as the michael family lawyers from eastenders



drugs murder guns, no worries we get you out in six months and no proceeds of crime bullshit


----------



## ddraig (Oct 4, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> do kinda worry about the fella if he does not get clean and does not move
> 
> no wait wtf the fuck
> 
> ...


Yeah, seemed a well short term for "half a million £'s worth"


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 4, 2021)

the whole thing he attacked me for being a snitch and then light sentences


snitching might be a hobby in luton


----------



## Dandred (Oct 7, 2021)

Wait, the guy found with a loaded shotgun was found not guilty? 

WTF.......


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 11, 2021)

This one looks promising. Hope there's more interviews.


----------



## May Kasahara (Oct 11, 2021)

I have never watched this programme before, but can't seem to look away from this one.


----------



## BigMoaner (Oct 11, 2021)

God that was gruelling
 So sad for those guys, and so brave for talking
When I was a kid I’m surprised I didn’t come across characters like that, the waif and strays that we were. They act like Predators, no less.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 11, 2021)

The bit about the 2008 trial where he was found not guilty despite all the forensic evidence made me feel sick.


----------



## Supine (Oct 12, 2021)

Ii watched the first two minutes and decided i couldn’t watch any more.


----------



## moomoo (Oct 13, 2021)

.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 13, 2021)

Err spoilers please for those of us haven't googled.


----------



## moomoo (Oct 13, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Err spoilers please for those of us haven't googled.



Sorry, no idea how to do that. Just scroll past really quickly! 🤷‍♀️


----------



## ddraig (Oct 13, 2021)

.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 14, 2021)

moomoo said:


> Sorry, no idea how to do that. Just scroll past really quickly! 🤷‍♀️


edit you post and look for the spoiler 3rd icon along

them put you post inside this bit that it generates not the below 

SPOILER][/SPOILER


----------



## moomoo (Oct 14, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> edit you post and look for the spoiler 3rd icon along
> 
> them put you post inside this bit that it generates not the below
> 
> SPOILER][/SPOILER



Not a clue. 🤷‍♀️ I deleted it instead. 🤣


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 14, 2021)

fair play for trying


----------



## Numbers (Oct 14, 2021)

That was a tough watch  I’m both almost crying and almost angry.  

Where I grew up was rife with that shit.


----------



## clicker (Oct 14, 2021)

I missed the last couple of minutes...is it being concluded next week?


----------



## A380 (Oct 14, 2021)

clicker said:


> Oh well, definitely disappointed with that.
> The first ones in the series have been the jaw droppers in the past.
> 
> As above, what did he steal? why did he do it? where were the taped interviews? why not hang on until the sentence at least?
> ...


Sentenced to 11 Years today. Did six years in Italy for sex trafficking.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 18, 2021)

just catching up with the first episode before watching the second party


this is pretty grim stuff


----------



## ddraig (Oct 18, 2021)

Spoiler: 2nd episode question



Probably wrong but were those witnesses ('B','C' and 'D')  who were offered money not to testify or change their testimony not able to give evidence because of the fact they were potentially bribed?


Thanks


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 18, 2021)

being forced to defend yourself in court with a record, in a case like this is not something i'd wish on someone


nice bit of telly but the hardest episodes of the show to watch so far


----------



## clicker (Oct 18, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Spoiler: 2nd episode question
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wasn't totally sure, because I can't see anyone trying to buy them off on behalf of Grimes (who'd want to help him?)  so thought it must have been Grimes himself.


----------



## clicker (Oct 18, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> being forced to defend yourself in court with a record, in a case like this is not something i'd wish on someone
> 
> 
> nice bit of telly but the hardest episodes of the show to watch so far


Yes, really grim. I'm sure there were dozens more victims/survivors watching tonight who may come forward now.


----------



## moomoo (Oct 18, 2021)

clicker said:


> Yes, really grim. I'm sure there were dozens more victims/survivors watching tonight who may come forward now.



The writing at the end said that 9 people had already come forward since the first episode had aired.


----------



## clicker (Oct 18, 2021)

moomoo said:


> The writing at the end said that 9 people had already come forward since the first episode had aired.


Ah I didn't see that, hopefully he'll be further sentenced.


----------



## moomoo (Oct 19, 2021)

clicker said:


> Ah I didn't see that, hopefully he'll be further sentenced.



The police have said that they’ll be investigating these further claims so let’s hope so.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 19, 2021)

clicker said:


> Yes, really grim. I'm sure there were dozens more victims/survivors watching tonight who may come forward now.


I felt like that wouldn't just apply to crimes Grimes had committed aswell. Anyone who watched that and who hung around a house like that when they were young could spark another investigation because they saw other survivors get a result.

I liked how the copper acknowledged the case had changed they was she sees the habitual criminals she arrests as potential victims, and the barrister who spoke of the cost Grimes actions had to society in terms of court time, police expenditure etc

On channel 4 news last night they said 11 new cases had now come forward.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Oct 19, 2021)

What a deeply sad and powerful 2 episodes. And what a damming indictment of how the prison system is a fucking failure for those young men and women that have suffered such abuse and have lives that are so destroyed by it


----------



## ddraig (Oct 19, 2021)

clicker said:


> I wasn't totally sure, because I can't see anyone trying to buy them off on behalf of Grimes (who'd want to help him?)  so thought it must have been Grimes himself.


Yeah, get that, what I was confused about was why they didn't testify and was it related to alleged interference/bribery


----------



## Mumbles274 (Oct 19, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Yeah, get that, what I was confused about was why they didn't testify and was it related to alleged interference/bribery


Maybe because the intimidation could have worked and the evidence they would give might then be influenced to damage the case?


----------



## ddraig (Oct 19, 2021)

Mumbles274 said:


> Maybe because the intimidation could have worked and the evidence they would give might then be influenced to damage the case?


Did think this but that would help the disgusting sicko pervert rapist and would be worth doing just for them being unable to get them not to testify?!?
Didn't seem to be any consequences for the accused, unless they glossed over it of course
What a mess!

But right result in the end thankfully


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 19, 2021)

Very grim story and clearly and appalling human being.

From a purely televisual perspective I wonder why C4 chose to tell the story over 2 episodes?  I know it was a very long investigation but it wasn't like much developed throughout it was just accumulation of evidence by the Police.  It was only really when they interviewed the woman who had been abused as a small child that there was a development as such.

There was an awful lot of interviews with the cops involved and a fair bit with the CPS so I'm guessing that was a large part of the story they wanted to tell.

It was an important story to tell but it was as someone said upthread quite a gruelling watch.


----------



## pbsmooth (Oct 19, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Yeah, get that, what I was confused about was why they didn't testify and was it related to alleged interference/bribery



Eh? They got scared/paid off by Grimes to not testify.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2021)

Good this dick went down, 22 years at 65 should be life for the fella



thankfully he was not as rich as he portray himself

'Multiple failings' in responses to claims of child sex abuse made against Lord Janner, report finds


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 19, 2021)

Recorded it, but not sure I'll watch this one due to the case. I enjoyed watching the world's stupidest drug barons being caught out and sent down, but this is something else


----------



## ddraig (Oct 19, 2021)

crojoe said:


> Eh? They got scared/paid off by Grimes to not testify.


Right, so they did get scared off and weren't not able to just because he had tried it?
I'm not explaining what I mean well at all, apologies


----------



## D'wards (Oct 20, 2021)

I'd like to hope Grimes spends the rest of his life in misery and fear, as his actions have put countless other lives in misery and fear.


----------



## moomoo (Oct 25, 2021)

Does anyone know if it’s on tonight?


----------



## Indeliblelink (Oct 25, 2021)

My TV Guide says yes. Sounds like an interesting one.


----------



## clicker (Oct 25, 2021)

moomoo said:


> Does anyone know if it’s on tonight?


I've just checked and yes. It's the 5th out of the 6 episodes.


----------



## moomoo (Oct 25, 2021)

clicker said:


> I've just checked and yes. It's the 5th out of the 6 episodes.



Great. Thanks very much.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 25, 2021)

hmm does look like an interesting one so far

and whilst not a happy story

nothing like the last 2 episodes  thank god


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 25, 2021)

Mum didn't last long with the no comment approach. 

If her sister died the day before I'd imagine it could be argued she's not fit to be interviewed.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 25, 2021)

think she would of stuck to it if they did not just tell her they been to the other sisters and the game was up

also think she been in the cops shop for more than one day as she was wearing the tracksuit


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 25, 2021)

mother of the offfender more worried about what the neighbours think that anything her son did
 lovely


----------



## Dandred (Nov 4, 2021)

Well, that was horrific.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 4, 2021)

was it on last night


----------



## ddraig (Nov 4, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> was it on last night


Monday


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 4, 2021)

Ty

damn it


*shakes fist at early shifts


----------



## D'wards (Nov 4, 2021)

Whilst the crime in this week's one was one of the most horrific they've ever had, its better viewing when they don't just give a "no comment" interview


----------



## Dandred (Nov 5, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> was it on last night


I just watched the one with the shaken babies. Not sure when it was aired as I torrent any TV I watch.


----------



## D'wards (Nov 5, 2021)

Dandred said:


> I just watched the one with the shaken babies. Not sure when it was aired as I torrent any TV I watch.


That was this weeks


----------



## Numbers (Nov 5, 2021)

We watched the baby one y/day.



Spoiler: Question about the baby.



After watching it we spoke about would it be better if the baby died?  7 weeks old, irreversible brain damage, blind, deaf, cerebral palsy in 4 limbs, will never be able to walk, unable to eat without a tube - just seems a life of misery is ahead, or is there any hope or chance of experiencing some good things with proper care?  I'm not saying we think he would be better dead, in fact we couldn't answer because we don't know what his life would be like, he deserves a chance however small.  Truly sad tho'.


----------



## clicker (Nov 5, 2021)

I got confused. Was the first case related to the second case and was there an outcome in the first case. Or was it the same case but a different incident?


----------



## BoatieBird (Nov 5, 2021)

Me and Mr B had the same discussion Numbers, without coming to any real conclusion.
Desperately sad all round.


----------



## BoatieBird (Nov 5, 2021)

clicker said:


> I got confused. Was the first case related to the second case and was there an outcome in the first case. Or was it the same case but a different incident?



Two separate cases.
There wasn't enough evidence to proceed in the first case so all charges were dropped.


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 5, 2021)

clicker said:


> I got confused. Was the first case related to the second case and was there an outcome in the first case. Or was it the same case but a different incident?



I think they used it to show how difficult it is to get a conviction.


----------



## moomoo (Nov 5, 2021)

BoatieBird said:


> Two separate cases.
> There wasn't enough evidence to proceed in the first case so all charges were dropped.



This shocked me so much.


----------



## BoatieBird (Nov 5, 2021)

moomoo said:


> This shocked me so much.



Me too, I'd always assumed in cases like this that both people would be charged.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 5, 2021)

Well, I was confused, the one on yesterday was a repeat from Monday, no idea why my freesat box recorded a repeat, that doesn't usually happen, I guess someone at C-4 must had tagged it wrong for recording.  🤷‍♂️


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 5, 2021)

BoatieBird said:


> Me too, I'd always assumed in cases like this that both people would be charged.



While I was watching I was thinking it was a possible instruction maual for anyone that ever found themselves in that situation. I'm pretty sure I've seen cases where both parents were convicted and wondered if there was a specific charge that needs to be brought. 

Not exactly the same....but it seems ridiculous that a joint enterprise murder charge can see 10 boys with long sentences when some might not have even been at the scene but 2 parents in the same house can't be charged for the murder of a baby despite expert witnesses being certain of the cause and likely time of death.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Jan 3, 2022)

New 2 parts on tonight


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 3, 2022)

Heavy this. 

Pretty unreal given the recent high profile cases that they've got this on film.


----------



## moomoo (Jan 3, 2022)

This is awful. And the dad is clearly guilty. And a terrible actor


----------



## quiet guy (Jan 3, 2022)

It's really heavy. Unbelievable that given the amount of times neighbours had reported the couple that they weren't on any social services radar.


----------



## quiet guy (Jan 4, 2022)

Part 2 just starting


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 4, 2022)

Christ. That was horrific viewing. Absolutely stomach churning.



Spoiler: Spoiler 



The sentences for both seem depressingly light. A community order for the mother and 18 years for the battery and murder of a child by the piece of shit she lived with. I found myself disappointed that he survived the van smashing into him


----------



## Thora (Jan 4, 2022)

Just so hard to understand the mother.  Why move a man like that in to your children's home.


----------



## tonysingh (Jan 5, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Christ. That was horrific viewing. Absolutely stomach churning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know if this brings any comfort but i know that this series is very popular in prison and thanks to it, that cunt is having a horrible time of it right this moment. His life will be a living hell


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 5, 2022)

Thora said:


> Just so hard to understand the mother.  Why move a man like that in to your children's home.



He wasn't like that when they got together, he was probably charming, a big strong man who she found attractive and presumably could provide support to her when she was on her own trying to look after 3 children. It was quite clear she was unable to recognise it had become an abusive relationship. All the signs of minimising and self blame were there. She didn't see it as a problem if it wasn't in front of the kids and she thought his behaviour was normal.....so why wouldn't she have him in the house? 

I wondered what her other relationships had been like. The fella who was Teddie's real dad was with her for a matter of months from what I've read and where was the dad of the other 3 kids?..and how did they come to split up?  I think it said in the first part the kids had gone to him?...... Assuming he was having contact beforehand he might have been the one to recognise they were living with a lunatic since she was unable to.... Or maybe he was just as bad.

I also wondered why he had an appropriate adult with him when he was interviewed so that police were sure he understood what was being put to him. Normally that would only happen with under 18s or people with mental health problems or learning difficulties. He was 31, much as I was surprised to read that.  He was talking himself into a hole and didn't even acknowledge his controlling behaviour in terms of telling her to come back from the park and to get her to say the fellas second name or whatever.... his methods just worked and that was that, he wasn't trying to hide anything and was almost proud of it because it achieved what he wanted. Every interaction with him seemed to show him to be unable to manage himself appropriately. I'd be very surprised if he didn't have a diagnosis of some sort and tbh I wondered if the police had put any safeguarding measures in for him when he went off and tried to top himself because it surely should've been considered a risk after what they'd told him about Teddie not being his kid.

I read a BBC report that said a social worker went out end of September, after the reports of fighting between the couple and spoke with her about domestic abuse but she said he was in the house and the conversation ended. Sounds to me.like something that should have been followed up very soon after.

There's a serious case review to come later this year that should make interesting reading.


----------



## Thora (Jan 5, 2022)

I'm sure she is a very damaged person (both of them probably) but the relationship with this man she'd known for 5 minutes was more important to her than the violence he inflicted on her older children or that he tortured and murdered her newborn.  Her lack of response to the police detailing all the injuries.  Just the lack of normal parental instinct I guess seemed so bizarre.
She seemed to be caring for the children in other ways - clean bedrooms and clothes and taking them to school and the park - just no willingness or ability to keep them safe from terror and violence.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 5, 2022)

Thora said:


> I'm sure she is a very damaged person (both of them probably) but the relationship with this man she'd known for 5 minutes was more important to her than the violence he inflicted on her older children or that he tortured and murdered her newborn.  Her lack of response to the police detailing all the injuries.  Just the lack of normal parental instinct I guess seemed so bizarre.
> She seemed to be caring for the children in other ways - clean bedrooms and clothes and taking them to school and the park - just no willingness or ability to keep them safe from terror and violence.


tbf I'm probably a bit jaded having seen so many families that don't fit the usual expectations. Very little surprises me about the shitty ways people treat each other or function in relationships and I've seen too many mum's choose their partner over their kids even when it comes to removing them.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 5, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> I don't know if this brings any comfort but i know that this series is very popular in prison and thanks to it, that cunt is having a horrible time of it right this moment. His life will be a living hell



He's a properly horrible cunt. Came very, very close to losing it in the interview room there. Imagine there's a quite a few horrible cunts inside, but he seems on a higher level, and being a baby killer and someone who loses his rag at the drop of a hat I can well imagine that not going down too favourably.


----------



## Petcha (Jan 5, 2022)

What a truly awful human being. I also wondered about the 'appropriate adult' being present. They didn't mention any mental issues, learning difficulties etc but that person wouldn't have been there if there weren't. 

I'm a dad myself and I cannot fathom how you could even harm a hair on his little head let alone do what this guy did. I'm glad he survived that suicide attempt. He now has 18 years to punch holes in the wall of his cell. Cunt.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2022)

Thora said:


> I'm sure she is a very damaged person (both of them probably) but the relationship with this man she'd known for 5 minutes was more important to her than the violence he inflicted on her older children or that he tortured and murdered her newborn.  Her lack of response to the police detailing all the injuries.  Just the lack of normal parental instinct I guess seemed so bizarre.
> She seemed to be caring for the children in other ways - clean bedrooms and clothes and taking them to school and the park - just no willingness or ability to keep them safe from terror and violence.



Yeah she just seemed to have this really weird disconnect.  I can understand why she wanted to keep the police and others away from her relationship but its impossible to escape that somebody battered her baby to death.  It was one of them and she knew it wasn't her. 

Just a complete disconnect.

Both very messed up people and he did strike me as having quite a young mental age, certainly the tantrums and child-like lying.  

That poor baby and those poor other kids of hers.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 12, 2022)

Me and a pal have discussed a "human hoover" before. 
Just sucks people out of existence, never to be seen again. 
This bloke is a prime candidate


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 28, 2022)

Noticed Police Custody USA on at 10 tonight. First of 4 episodes.

"A man is shot dead at point-blank range on a hot afternoon in a trailer park in Kansas. Veteran homicide detectives think it’s a family affair. But can they prove it?"


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 28, 2022)

Funny enough, I've just set my box to record all 4 episodes, I have a feeling it'll be a bit of an eye opener.


----------



## Part 2 (Mar 29, 2022)

They're all on all4 already.

I watched the first 2. It's much the same as the UK program but with policing differences. Second was better I thought.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 29, 2022)

Just watched it and I might have shouted at the telly in a few spots. 😁


----------



## pbsmooth (Mar 29, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> It's much the same as the UK program but with policing differences.


they just end up shooting all the suspects?


----------



## moomoo (Mar 29, 2022)

Bizarrely I’m not that interested in watching an American version so I think I’ll skip this.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Mar 29, 2022)

Watched the first episode but ended up going to bed before it finished

Just not as invested in American police procedurals for some reason


----------



## ddraig (Apr 4, 2022)

bellaozzydog said:


> Watched the first episode but ended up going to bed before it finished
> 
> Just not as invested in American police procedurals for some reason


Agreed, just watching it and it's just jock cops and guns mostly!


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 11, 2022)

bellaozzydog said:


> Watched the first episode but ended up going to bed before it finished
> 
> Just not as invested in American police procedurals for some reason



watching the second episode as i suspected, it just highlights why i think guns have no place in public ownership

or at least bullets should be so much more expenisve


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 5, 2022)

New episode at 9!


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 5, 2022)

Depressing as fuck, really hard to watch.


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 5, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Depressing as fuck, really hard to watch.


Has it already been shown?...I was surprised it's not usually a Tuesday night


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 5, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Has it already been shown?...I was surprised it's not usually a Tuesday night



It's part 2 tonight. Part 1 was last night. I recommend seeing that on catch up first. Just be warned, it'll make you angry


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 5, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Has it already been shown?...I was surprised it's not usually a Tuesday night



First part yesterday, second tonight.


----------



## moomoo (Jul 5, 2022)

Oh! What’s it about?


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 5, 2022)

moomoo said:


> Oh! What’s it about?



The murder of Rikki Neave


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 5, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> First part yesterday, second tonight.


Cheers I would've started on the second part if I'd waited til 9


----------



## moomoo (Jul 5, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> The murder of Rikki Neave


Oh crikey. 

I’ll watch it on Thursday.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 5, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Depressing as fuck, really hard to watch.



watching the first episode mid way thru have to agree

jesus


----------



## Maggot (Jul 5, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Cheers I would've started on the second part if I'd waited til 9


Quite appropriately with your name.


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 5, 2022)

Maggot said:


> Quite appropriately with your name.


I thought the same as I was writing that


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 5, 2022)

Is it a play rather than a documentary?


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jul 5, 2022)

I’m fucking in


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 6, 2022)

she was never going to look like mother of the year

but Witch

1994


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 7, 2022)

No one in the original investigation came off well tbf. 


I'm astonished at the sentence handed to his actual killer though. 15 is fuck all for what he did.


----------



## Petcha (Jul 7, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> No one in the original investigation came off well tbf.
> 
> 
> I'm astonished at the sentence handed to his actual killer though. 15 is fuck all for what he did.



He was sentenced as a child given his age at the time


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 7, 2022)

Petcha said:


> He was sentenced as a child given his age at the time



Yes, I know.


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 7, 2022)

Other than what I saw in the program I don't know much about the case and not sure if there's a comparable recent one. I imagine he might have got longer thesedays but doubt that at the same time. 

I wonder if the fact he went on the run and was so cocky aggravyes things. 

And why she was the one imprisoned for neglect and why Dad wasn't seen as being in any way responsible. 7 years seems a long sentence. I understand she's trying to have the charges dismissed.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 7, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Other than what I saw in the program I don't know much about the case and not sure if there's a comparable recent one. I imagine he might have got longer thesedays but doubt that at the same time.
> 
> I wonder if the fact he went on the run and was so cocky aggravyes things.
> 
> And why she was the one imprisoned for neglect and why Dad wasn't seen as being in any way responsible. 7 years seems a long sentence. I understand she's trying to have the charges dismissed.




Was the dad around at all? I got impression he was absent


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 7, 2022)

U t


tonysingh said:


> Was the dad around at all? I got impression he was absent


I think she was in a relationship with someone else. Maybe he didn't live there.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 27, 2022)

Back tomorrow night at 9


----------



## ddraig (Nov 27, 2022)

seems like could be an old episode shown in July


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 27, 2022)

Sky+ says different. We'll find out tomorrow night. 😁


----------



## bellaozzydog (Nov 28, 2022)

I’m frothing about a new one of these dropping


----------



## ddraig (Nov 28, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Sky+ says different. We'll find out tomorrow night. 😁


Cheers!


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 28, 2022)

I’ve never watched this series, but saw a trailer on All4 and it looked interesting- are they mostly worth watching, or is it a mixed bag?


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I’ve never watched this series, but saw a trailer on All4 and it looked interesting- are they mostly worth watching, or is it a mixed bag?



Mostly worth watching.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> are they mostly worth watching, or is it a mixed bag?


Unlike many of the people featured on there who get sent down, I wouldn't like to comment.


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

Another site saying tonight is the first of 2 new episodes. 

Gives quite a lot of information about the offence being investigated so don't look if you don't want to know.









						24 Hours In Police Custody | Series 10 Preview (Channel 4)
					

The UK's biggest true crime documentary series returns with two brand-new programmes featuring unprecedented access to behind-the-scenes police investigations into major crimes. This episode - Two Wrongs - begins late at night in a quiet village in rural Bedfordshire, when a husband and wife are...




					www.tvzoneuk.com


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> I’ve never watched this series, but saw a trailer on All4 and it looked interesting- are they mostly worth watching, or is it a mixed bag?



Some of the offences and the perpetrators attitudes around them will make you want to chin the TV though


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 28, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Some of the offences and the perpetrators attitudes around them will make you want to chin the TV though


I recently rewatched the Black Widow ones and can attest to this


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 28, 2022)

Thanks all, I’ll give it a watch.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

bump bump again on at 9 pm


----------



## moomoo (Nov 28, 2022)

Is it a one off just today?


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

bah stand down it a repeat of bedfordshires most wanted from 2021


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

hmm wait its odd it might be a new one

24 Hours In Police Custody: Two Wrongs (Monday 28 November 2022 Channel 4)


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

Weird how it's only channel 4 that's got it as being a repeat


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

virgin media has it as a repeat

did something happen in the new case that scuppered it


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> virgin media has it as a repeat
> 
> did something happen in the new case that scuppered it



Not on my all4 on VM... showing as new


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

sounds like a new one from the intro


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

tis new 2 parter


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

does not sound nice home owner running 2 guys on a bike off the road :/


----------



## MBV (Nov 28, 2022)

Don't think I've seen this if it's a repeat.


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 28, 2022)

The Tony Martin defence


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

MBV said:


> Don't think I've seen this if it's a repeat.



its new 

as per my post #885 just was showing as a repeat


----------



## ddraig (Nov 28, 2022)

Oof


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

don't want to damn the fella but thats not a moment of madness

thats rage for a period of time where you should of backed off


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

Digging a hole for himself by the looks of it


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

done in my his response to officers at the incident


the 2 wankers whilst gesticulating his anger

cops told him at the scene to stop it


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

so bets it turns out he is a drug dealer


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> so bets it turns out he is a drug dealer



I'd be surprised. I reckon the other kid might die though.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

being a 2 part episode and he being that aggressive with getting them away from the property there is a chance

and defo the other kid is dead with this lead up

not one to google the case btw


*edited to add** stand corrected*


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

saying that if its a 2 hour programme about justifying the  Tony Martin defence


----------



## moomoo (Nov 28, 2022)

That was outrageous! How did Adam White get sent to prison and the burglars get community service?


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

2 burglars gave evidence against adam white

trying to kill someone outside of your drive way is frowned upon


if he had not crashed his own car he would of gotten away with it
and remembering cops are not friendly


----------



## ddraig (Nov 28, 2022)

moomoo said:


> That was outrageous! How did Adam White get sent to prison and the burglars get community service?


Because he used a car as a weapon and caused life changing injuries?
And they, despite being thieving scumbags, didn't steal anything


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

According to news stories they're suing against his car insurance for £1million for the injuries, he spent £50k on his defence and his wife terminated the pregnancy because they couldn't afford another baby with him being sent away.


----------



## clicker (Nov 28, 2022)

I thought once the accident investigator said the car hit the kerb, 2 tyres deflated, then it hit the bike, that he'd get off as the car was out of control when it hit the bike.


----------



## moomoo (Nov 28, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Because he used a car as a weapon and caused life changing injuries?
> And they, despite being thieving scumbags, didn't steal anything


It was an accident. He didn’t mean to injure them.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

not sure about that

why did he hit the kerb if he was out of control

more like aiming the car


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

bike inside corner

Merc that size could never take a corner like that without crashing out


----------



## clicker (Nov 28, 2022)

I know it _could_ be a deliberate ram job, but equally it could have been him not thinking, speeding round the corner and hitting the kerb. Then chaos and he hit the bike. 
We'll never know, there was no cctv and he did hit the brakes, but too late to stop. Just surprised at the jury's decision. They could only guess at the level of intent too.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

they never provide the distance from the house


might of been a factor


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 28, 2022)

Didn’t it say near the start that he’d been driving for a “few minutes” before the accident? They didn’t seem to cover what his intentions were had he caught up with them which might have been a factor since he’d already scared them off. 

Seems a bit harsh that he got sent down while the other two didn’t though, especially as they were caught on the rob again during the investigation


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## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

if you are going to try to kill someone do it near or close to your house is my only suggestion


i chased these 2 wanker for a few miles at 90 mph is not a good look if you crashed your car into a parked pick up...

intend to rob vs intend to kill


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## AverageJoe (Nov 28, 2022)

All three guilty in various ways.

Sadly, Adam decided to take the law into his own hands. The two thieves know how to play the game and work the syatem by saying "no comment" to everything. That forces the police to find more evidence.

Adam had no experience of this so tried to help. He should not have done what he did - he was lucky not to have had "with intent" added to his charge because at any time in those few minutes he could have decided to stop chasing.

As I found out last month, this is the worst thing to do. Trying to be helpful and honest leads to an easy conviction, another statistic, and another win on the forces books.

I never thought I'd say this after my ordeal but the police and the justice system is absolutely fucked.


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## AverageJoe (Nov 28, 2022)

For clarity. I was told by my solicitor that if I had said "no comment" in my interview I'd have been found not guilty. 

Now I can't train kids at football or any other sport for a few years because my victim knew how to play the system and make it appear worse than it was. 

So who wins? The kids at sport don't. I don't. And I guess he just carries on as notmal.


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## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

i feared for my life as i chased a motorbike down in a Jeep was never really going to win


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## Ax^ (Nov 28, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> I never thought I'd say this after my ordeal but the police and the justice system is absolutely fucked.



sorry you found this out late

but police are never your friends

ACAB


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## AverageJoe (Nov 28, 2022)

MCAB


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## Part 2 (Nov 28, 2022)

moomoo said:


> It was an accident. He didn’t mean to injure them.


What do you think his intention was in chasing them? I don't think he was just going to tell them off.

It was a fucking idiotic thing to do whichever way you look at it. He'd seen they were tooled up and left his pregnant wife and kids in the house. It seemed quite clear from the camera they'd been seen on that they'd not robbed anything. 

The bit where he said 'they looked like two skinny kids' then changed it to 'about as big as me' when he realised it was the wrong thing to say was very revealing imo.


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## not henry (Nov 28, 2022)

This is a long watch. It is also invaluable knowledge if you are having any dealing with the police. 
Why is this stuff not taught a a basic life skill
I know it's American but so much translates. 
After all why would you speak up


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## DaveCinzano (Nov 28, 2022)

If you want to increase your chances of not being banged up, whether you've done anything or not, just remember that every day is SHUT THE FUCK UP FRIDAY.


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## AverageJoe (Nov 28, 2022)

Wow. He talks fast. If that was normal speech that video woukd be like, three hours long!


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## tonysingh (Nov 28, 2022)

That'll be the Daily Mail readers frothing in outrage now then. 

The guy in the car...i get the moment of anger but once the burglars have had it on their toes, he's ripe for a nicking. In fairness he's lucky he didn't get a section 18 GBH lumped on him and thats gonna be double the bird at least. Using the car could easily have been seen as using a weapon. 

The other two? Frequent fliers for real. They're gonna end up lumped off sooner or later.


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## Petcha (Nov 29, 2022)

What odious little shits. Their suspended sentences have probably already been activated by now anyway. And those injuries are gonna be with them for the rest of their lives.

The detail about her deciding to have an abortion because of the legal costs. Well, you dont need to be a DM reader to be pretty fucking outraged about that.


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## tonysingh (Nov 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> What odious little shits. Their suspended sentences have probably already been activated by now anyway. And those injuries are gonna be with them for the rest of their lives.
> 
> The detail about her deciding to have an abortion because of the legal costs. Well, you dont need to be a DM reader to be pretty fucking outraged about that.



I entirely agree they are odious shitebags. But they still only attempted to burgle. That's almost always a suspended sentence. GBH is usually custodial.


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## Petcha (Nov 29, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> I entirely agree they are odious shitebags. But they still only attempted to burgle. That's almost always a suspended sentence. GBH is usually custodial.



I dont think he was eventually charged with GBH was he? It was some other charge like using a vehicle as weapon or something. He clearly should have kept his mouth shut at the scene and in the interview. I didn't actually see if he had a lawyer present there anyway which in itself is a bit unfair as the cops must have clearly seen he had no experience of the justice system.


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## Ax^ (Nov 29, 2022)

the abortion line is kinda odd addition


no ones ever had a kid whilst their partner is in jail

sure the hails comments section is having a field day


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## tonysingh (Nov 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I dont think he was eventually charged with GBH was he? It was some other charge like using a vehicle as weapon or something. He clearly should have kept his mouth shut at the scene and in the interview. I didn't actually see if he had a lawyer present there anyway which in itself is a bit unfair as the cops must have clearly seen he had no experience of the justice system.



Ah I missed the bit dropping GBH bit. 

Totally agree re old bill stitching him up.


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## moomoo (Nov 29, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> What do you think his intention was in chasing them? I don't think he was just going to tell them off.
> 
> It was a fucking idiotic thing to do whichever way you look at it. He'd seen they were tooled up and left his pregnant wife and kids in the house. It seemed quite clear from the camera they'd been seen on that they'd not robbed anything.
> 
> The bit where he said 'they looked like two skinny kids' then changed it to 'about as big as me' when he realised it was the wrong thing to say was very revealing imo.


This is very true. I certainly wouldn’t have chased them.


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## clicker (Dec 1, 2022)

A Go Fund me was set up to cover the legal costs etc. Its currently  over £120,000.


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## editor (Dec 1, 2022)

clicker said:


> A Go Fund me was set up to cover the legal costs etc. Its currently  over £120,000.


More here Dad-of-two jailed for running burglars off the road 'blown away' after strangers raise £121,000 for legal fees


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## Thora (Dec 1, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> the abortion line is kinda odd addition
> 
> 
> no ones ever had a kid whilst their partner is in jail
> ...


Why is it odd?  They already had another child to think about and couldn't afford another one.
Maybe the mother felt she couldn't cope with being a single parent?
People have kids in all kinds of situations, doesn't mean everyone would choose to.
Seemed like a rational decision.


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## Thora (Dec 1, 2022)

Adam White had obviously never watched an episode of 24 Hours in Police Custody though or he'd have known NO COMMENT.  Even the police were trying to shut him up.


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## Ax^ (Dec 1, 2022)

he still got a light sentence that he should of for what quite clear intended gbh

and has 121 grand for his trouble

not bad for 22 months


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## On Fire (Dec 1, 2022)

Thora said:


> Adam White had obviously never watched an episode of 24 Hours in Police Custody though or he'd have known NO COMMENT.  Even the police were trying to shut him up.



I will watch it later on demand. But did he not have a solicitor in with him? Any decent solicitor tells you to make no comment...


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## ddraig (Dec 1, 2022)

On Fire said:


> I will watch it later on demand. But did he not have a solicitor in with him? Any decent solicitor tells you to make no comment...


didn't look like it
seemed pretty thick/naïve tbh


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## Ax^ (Dec 1, 2022)

On Fire said:


> I will watch it later on demand. But did he not have a solicitor in with him? Any decent solicitor tells you to make no comment...



if you told the police at the scene of the accident 
you already pretty fucked  as well


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## Ax^ (Dec 1, 2022)

ddraig said:


> didn't look like it
> seemed pretty thick/naïve tbh


which is the bad part as he not learn anything about why it's not a good idea to take the law into your own hands

he'll feel vindicated by the public's reaction


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 1, 2022)

What I took from it is that a bad thing happened, he was targeted and victimised, and so he lashed out. But in pursuit of that over an extended period of time and distance, his righteousness declined, to the point of the impact. 

By that point he was acting in a way in which he endangered countless people with nothing to do with the situation. But even though he was shaken up, and crap at keeping his mouth shut, by the time of the crash scene conversations, he was seemingly at the stage of minimising his responsibility, reframing his narrative, and making some conscious efforts to present his actions in the most positive light. He appeared to be chasing approval whilst simultaneously avoiding accountability.

Everything that happened from the police station onwards seemed to feed into a persecution complex. Every thought expressed or action explained seems to be a way of demonstrating how life is unfair, the bad guys get everything handed to them whilst the good guy comes last, etc. Heavy Tony Martin vibes for sure, but with notes of Rittenhouse and Dryden, and hints of incel/MRA whininess, that sort of thing. 

He went too far, and was fortunate that bystanders weren't hurt. He could have either shrugged his shoulders and taken his medicine, or just STFU and made the cops do all the running around. But he hasn't - he's portrayed himself as a forever-victim and denies he has any agency. Not sure that going to be good for him in the longer run.


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## pbsmooth (Dec 1, 2022)

Sprinting after them out the house seems such a weird reaction to me especially if you're saying you're terrified. 
Either way, couldn't help but feel a bit sorry for him but the stronger emotions were dispair and anger at the state of the wannabe criminals. No hint of any remorse for lives of crime, no suggestion of ever going straight. Revelling in it. And bringing kids into the world with no care as well.


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## Ax^ (Dec 1, 2022)

as an aside if one of them had died would we be championing the fella


for killing someone who attacked his castle


a few miles away

without the slightly wanky " well if you attacked my car/missue/house/kids" bravado ballocks

he should of just joined the police he is daft enough


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## pbsmooth (Dec 1, 2022)

Is anyone championing him?


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## Ax^ (Dec 1, 2022)

got a gofund me up to 121 grand


talk aside from posters on here


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 1, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> What I took from it is that a bad thing happened, he was targeted and victimised, and so he lashed out. But in pursuit of that over an extended period of time and distance, his righteousness declined, to the point of the impact.
> 
> By that point he was acting in a way in which he endangered countless people with nothing to do with the situation. But even though he was shaken up, and crap at keeping his mouth shut, by the time of the crash scene conversations, he was seemingly at the stage of minimising his responsibility, reframing his narrative, and making some conscious efforts to present his actions in the most positive light. He appeared to be chasing approval whilst simultaneously avoiding accountability.
> 
> ...


I note you've positioned yourself with the prosecution rather than the defence.


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 1, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I note you've positioned yourself with the prosecution rather than the defence.


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## Ax^ (Dec 1, 2022)

Thora said:


> Why is it odd?  They already had another child to think about and couldn't afford another one.
> Maybe the mother felt she couldn't cope with being a single parent?
> People have kids in all kinds of situations, doesn't mean everyone would choose to.
> Seemed like a rational decision.



the mental gymnastics of spending 50 grand in defence of a fella who basically admitted on camera to trying to kill 2 people before getting council 
is not worth thinking about


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 4, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> so bets it turns out he is a drug dealer


Watching now, that crossed my mind


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 4, 2022)

NEVER EVER TALK TO THE COPPERS


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## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2022)

watch i can understand the anger about the consequences

but go back and watch the first 5 minutes of the cops on the scene

telling him to shut the fuck up and then the change in his story under interview

without a solicitor... 

that and him still seeing his self as a victim after trying to kill 2 people 


he got a go fund me at Mad money now he has been compensated for his troubles


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## A380 (Dec 4, 2022)

Three plus one rules of police interviews:

1. Get a solicitor 
2. Get a solicitor 
3. Get a solicitor 

3A listen to what your solicitor says.

Mind you, the last time I looked it wasn't the old bill who decided on charges or who sentence...


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## Part 2 (Dec 4, 2022)

Seen a few people sharing this petition about this. Is it me or does it appear to have no aim?...what does 'Justice for Adam White' mean? 









						Sign the Petition
					

Justice for Adam White




					www.change.org


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 4, 2022)

A380 said:


> Three plus one rules of police interviews:
> 
> 1. Get a solicitor
> 2. Get a solicitor
> ...


And if you can't afford a lawyer, and don't trust the duty solicitor/public defender, just get a glove puppet with a voicebox programmed only to say SHUT THE FUCK UP


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## Ax^ (Dec 4, 2022)

A380 said:


> Three plus one rules of police interviews:
> 
> 1. Get a solicitor
> 2. Get a solicitor
> ...




police suggest the charges to the cps and they confirm it


he put himself into charge without police assistance, they cannot just lose bodycam footage

not sure what justice he wants.. atm he appears to have served time and is getting a donated generous payday


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## A380 (Dec 4, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> And if you can't afford a lawyer, and don't trust the duty solicitor/public defender, just get a glove puppet with a voicebox programmed only to say SHUT THE FUCK UP


Not with the 'new' caution. Prepared statement plus no comment 85% of the time...the 15% and actually writing the prepared statement is why you need a brief...


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## A380 (Dec 4, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> police suggest the charges to the cps and they confirm it
> ...


If fucking only..


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 4, 2022)

A380 said:


> Not with the 'new' caution. Prepared statement plus no comment 85% of the time...the 15% and actually writing the prepared statement is why you need a brief...


"What's that, Sooty? 'SHUT THE FUCK UP!'?!"


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## Athos (Dec 5, 2022)

Shame the couple of surplus cunts didn't die.


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## Calamity1971 (Dec 5, 2022)

Athos said:


> Shame the couple of surplus cunts didn't die.


Ouch !


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## Calamity1971 (Dec 5, 2022)

The bit that got me was, ' my car was pristine' , ' it was my pride and joy'. If I had gone into a rage and caused life threating injuries on someone , albeit a burglar, I'd have been fucking in tears, not concerned about my car.


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## bmd (Dec 5, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> According to news stories they're suing against his car insurance for £1million for the injuries, he spent £50k on his defence and his wife terminated the pregnancy because they couldn't afford another baby with him being sent away.


They look like they couldn’t afford… anything? I mean, it’s all relevant but he could have got an old Raleigh Shopper, sold the beemer and funded the kid’s early years that way. You can take them on trains too. I hate burglars almost as much as him but if someone ran you over deliberately then wouldn’t you claim too?

I used to deal with this kid at work who probably caused as much misery as those two cunts and he came in one day really pissed off. The police had turned his flat over like a washing machine. Proper smashed it to bits. He asked me how I thought that made him feel? I asked him how he thought his victims felt after he’d turned them over? I was definitely down for that bit of restorative justice.


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## tonysingh (Dec 5, 2022)

Athos said:


> Shame the couple of surplus cunts didn't die.



That's no way to talk about the first pair of officers on scene!


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## Thora (Dec 5, 2022)

What's with the weird judgement from men on this thread about Mrs White not wanting to have another baby while her husband is in prison   Do you think she was just being a wimp about it?


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## Part 2 (Dec 5, 2022)

bmd said:


> They look like they couldn’t afford… anything? I mean, it’s all relevant but he could have got an old Raleigh Shopper, sold the beemer and funded the kid’s early years that way. You can take them on trains too. I hate burglars almost as much as him but if someone ran you over deliberately then wouldn’t you claim too?
> 
> I used to deal with this kid at work who probably caused as much misery as those two cunts and he came in one day really pissed off. The police had turned his flat over like a washing machine. Proper smashed it to bits. He asked me how I thought that made him feel? I asked him how he thought his victims felt after he’d turned them over? I was definitely down for that bit of restorative justice.


100% I'd be claiming if I were them. They're doubtless being advised to do so by a solicitor who's out for a nice cut. Obvs Adam White was advised of by a solicitor aswell, except his charged him £50k for a shit result.

The real kick in the balls would be if the solicitor was looking for a way to get hold of the £150k crowdfunder. That would take some neck. I could see why people might get pissed off then.


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## bmd (Dec 5, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> 100% I'd be claiming if I were them. They're doubtless being advised to do so by a solicitor who's out for a nice cut. Obvs Adam White was advised of by a solicitor aswell, except his charged him £50k for a shit result.
> 
> The real kick in the balls would be if the solicitor was looking for a way to get hold of the £150k crowdfunder. That would take some neck. I could see why people might get pissed off then.



Yeah, too right. Not sure what outcome his solicitor had in mind but if I was AW I'd be thinking that ain't it. There seems to be a high incidence of money grabbing bastards amongst criminal solicitors. No wonder they get on so well with their clients.


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## bmd (Dec 5, 2022)

Thora said:


> What's with the weird judgement from men on this thread about Mrs White not wanting to have another baby while her husband is in prison   Do you think she was just being a wimp about it?


That's exactly what I meant! How did you guess? That is so spooky.

But because you seem to be unable to see past your own prejudices, here's what I actually meant: 

She was blaming those two for her decision when in reality it was her husband's choices that brought her to that point.


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## tonysingh (Dec 5, 2022)

Thora said:


> What's with the weird judgement from men on this thread about Mrs White not wanting to have another baby while her husband is in prison   Do you think she was just being a wimp about it?



I got the impression that aborting the baby was much more his idea than hers. 

I also thought that him having too much rabbit both at the scene and at the station was a result of him panicking over a situation he can't control and trying regain said control. Now that might be relatively normal behaviour but the guy did give me the ick..


Still, new episode tonight for us all to argue about.


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## Ax^ (Dec 5, 2022)

don't want to be cynical about the mother

but both of them took the injury's inflected without any sign of remorse and the fella could of pushed her into it to get a lesser sentence

all a bit icky to be honest


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 5, 2022)

The guy seemed imbued with impotent anger and a ticker tape of daily mailesque working man   Cliches going through his head 

Patently naive ( his interactions with the coppers) and weirdly righteous. I doubt whether he’d have been as “brave” if the two robbers had stood their ground and he wasn’t in a ton and a half of prime German metal 

Looking forward to tonight’s, I’ll be avoiding any spoilers this time though


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## moomoo (Dec 5, 2022)

What is tonight’s about?


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## tonysingh (Dec 5, 2022)

moomoo said:


> What is tonight’s about?



Something to do with grooming i think.


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 5, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Something to do with grooming i think.


Sweeney Todd revisited?


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## moomoo (Dec 5, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Something to do with grooming i think.


Thank you.


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## pbsmooth (Dec 5, 2022)

uh oh, a grim one then


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## tonysingh (Dec 5, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> uh oh, a grim one then



Yeah, I'm almost certainly gonna skip it tonight.


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## pbsmooth (Dec 5, 2022)

same. not really much enjoyment to be had from the investigation side of it when the crimes are really horrific.


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## savoloysam (Dec 5, 2022)

The smarmy little cunt last week telling us he's a proud dad or some bollocks. Proud dad's work hard and don't go around stealing from hard working people.


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## Part 2 (Dec 5, 2022)

Well that was a horrible watch. Fuck I've known so many lads like that through work. 

Really not sure what the answer is when someone's so actively predatory at age 20. At least he went guilty I suppose. Striking how the other lad he ran into in the police station knew exactly what he was like, telling him to get a proper girlfriend, as though the problem was with young girls and nothing to do with him.


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 5, 2022)

Chilling how casual the chat was amongst young men 

I didn’t hold much hope for a decent sentence or even a sentence to start with but his catalogue of  offences just kept getting bigger 

Fuxking horrible


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## Dandred (Dec 9, 2022)

14 years for numerous rapes, indecent images of children, history of aggressive grooming, recorded sexual acts with underage girls. Doesn't seem long enough. 
That bit were his associate is chatting to him as he is originally being charged, telling him there won't be space on the nonce wing, and the look on his face was priceless.


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## ddraig (Dec 14, 2022)

On at 10 tonight


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## ddraig (Dec 14, 2022)

Been on before meh
The detective and the surgeon


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## neonwilderness (Dec 14, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Been on before meh
> The detective and the surgeon


Oddly enough I rewatched that one recently. It was good to see him get his comeuppance.


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## Shechemite (Dec 14, 2022)

neonwilderness said:


> Oddly enough I rewatched that one recently. It was good to see him get his comeuppance.



Was that the one who faked the house break in?


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## ddraig (Dec 14, 2022)

Shechemite said:


> Was that the one who faked the house break in?


yup, arrogant fool posho who was all over the place


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## Ax^ (Dec 15, 2022)

officer "So all this stuff you said was stolen we found in your basement"


oh i have 2 of them all, i'm a surgeon


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## tonysingh (Dec 15, 2022)

I've seen that episode before but I'll never tire of seeing that arrogant dickhead get sent down. What's even better is, each time that episode gets screened,  his time inside gets that much harder. Guarantee that at unlock this morning he was swarmed with cons bullying him and tapping him up for canteen. 


(Also odds-on he's on the numbers. Prick)


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