# Ryanair reduce flights from Newquay to one a day



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

I don't know if I'm more pissed off with Ryanair or Cornwall CC but they've had a tiff over a £5 passenger tax which the council wanted to charge Ryanair.

Why did they have to do that when I'm supposed to be going away?  That's really fucked us up   

http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=05&month=aug&story=rte-en-310805


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

Why not get the train?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Why not get the train?


5 and a half fucking hours   If you're only going for one night it's a pain in the arse.

And it's just another reminder of what 3rd class citizens we are down here. They've been trying to stop trains at Plymouth for years, why not just cut Cornwall off completely?  We're only a fucking theme park after all.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

Think of the good you'll be doing for the environment.

You could always get the sleeper too if you're only going for one night - but you're not, are you?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Think of the good you'll be doing for the environment.
> 
> You could always get the sleeper too.


No we can't We can only go for one night. I do daily good for the environment Flying to London once a year wasn't such a crime.

I don't understand what you mean about not only going up for one night


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I don't understand what you mean about not only going up for one night


I assumed you were speaking rhetorically.

So why not get the overnight sleeper - that's something that really needs support from Cornish people as the fuckers at the top look like they're set to get rid of it.

http://www.saveoursleeper.com/mainpage.htm


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Because that would mean 2 nights away and we can't do it. We live on a smallholding. We're spending a night in London, seeing a show etc and coming back the next day. If we go on the train we don't get into London until 2.30pm (if it's on time) which just gives us enough time to get to the hotel, check in, have a shower, find somewhere to eat , go to the show and then back to the hotel. It's very rushed. If you fly you're in London by 10 am. If we go on the sleeper we'd have to leave the night before and someone would have to come and let the animals out and feed them next day.

Apart from anything else why shouldn't we have the same travel options as other people?

This is the first time we've been away together for over a year. One of us always has to be here.

In the greater scheme of things it's no big deal but it pisses me off how companies like ryanair can just pull the plug on a really useful service.


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Because that would mean 2 nights away and we can't do it. We live on a smallholding. We're spending a night in London, seeing a show etc and coming back the next day. If we go on the train we don't get into London until 2.30pm (if it's on time) which just gives us enough time to get to the hotel, check in, have a shower, find somewhere to eat , go to the show and then back to the hotel. It's very rushed. If you fly you're in London by 10 am. If we go on the sleeper we'd have to leave the night before and someone would have to come and let the animals out and feed them next day.
> 
> Apart from anything else why shouldn't we have the same travel options as other people?



How can you expect the same travel options as other people if you live in such an outlying area? Go and live closer to London or go for longer if you want to increase your options.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone, it is a simple fact that you choose to live somewhere which is a certain distance from the capital city, both geographically and in terms of transport. there's no point in getting angry about the fact that the time-space continuum can't be altered in order to give you an easy way of visiting london for just one night. as the editor says, there's a perfectly good sleeper train. it's unfortunate that your lifestyle/home situation means you can't use that, but that's not the fault of anyone but yourself.


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## WasGeri (Sep 1, 2005)

I think you're all being a bit harsh on Madzone. So what if she choses to live far away from London? It's not the fucking centre of the universe! What about cuts in rural bus services, I suppose people aren't allowed to complain about those either, after all, it's their own fault if they chose not to live in the city.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

fair point geri. i would argue that's not quite the same as this tho. it's more like someone complaining that the local bus service doesn't get them into town and back in a quick enough timescale. cos basically madzone is complaining that she wants to go into london but only for one night, and that's difficult cos of where she lives.
it's just a fact that it takes a certain amount of time to get from somewhere to somewhere else, and from where she lives, it's a tall order to get to london and back in one overnight trip.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> I think you're all being a bit harsh on Madzone. So what if she choses to live far away from London? It's not the fucking centre of the universe! What about cuts in rural bus services, I suppose people aren't allowed to complain about those either, after all, it's their own fault if they chose not to live in the city.


Despite madzone choosing to live in a relatively remote location, there's buses, there's cheap coaches, there's trains, there's a motorway and there's even a night sleeper service to take her back and forth from the capital.

That's more than many other folks get.


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## WasGeri (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> from where she lives, it's a tall order to get to london and back in one overnight trip.



It wasn't when there was more than one flight though - *that * is her point.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

yeah but she has lots of other options to get to and from london, and if ryanair wasn't making money then clearly not enough cornish residents were using the flights to make it worth their while, so the demand obviously isn't there.
there's still 1 flight a day, surely that's enough to do what she wants to do, ie. overnight in london, anyway?!

i mean, people living a certain distance from london should kinda expect it to take a while to get to and from london, no?
edit: i certainly expect it to take a certain amount of time to get to and from cornwall, when i go there. and i take enough time once i'm there to make that travelling worthwhile!


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> It wasn't when there was more than one flight though - *that * is her point.


To be honest, the less noisy, polluting internal air flights* around the UK the better, as far as I'm concerned.

(*where there are reasonable transport alternatives available).


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> I think you're all being a bit harsh on Madzone. So what if she choses to live far away from London? It's not the fucking centre of the universe! What about cuts in rural bus services, I suppose people aren't allowed to complain about those either, after all, it's their own fault if they chose not to live in the city.


Thank you Geri


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> yeah but she has lots of other options to get to and from london, and if ryanair wasn't making money then clearly not enough cornish residents were using the flights to make it worth their while, so the demand obviously isn't there.
> there's still 1 flight a day, surely that's enough to do what she wants to do, ie. overnight in london, anyway?!
> 
> i mean, people living a certain distance from london should kinda expect it to take a while to get to and from london, no?
> edit: i certainly expect it to take a certain amount of time to get to and from cornwall, when i go there. and i take enough time once i'm there to make that travelling worthwhile!



It's nothing to do with them not making enough money. They've thrown a hissy fit at the council.

The 1 flight left will be at 9pm at night. No good for people trying to get to work (which is what the flight is mainly used for ) Or for people like ourselves trying to  get a night away.


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> To be honest, the less noisy, polluting internal air flights* around the UK the better, as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> (*where there are reasonable transport alternatives available).


But the more the merrier to New York eh?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Despite madzone choosing to live in a relatively remote location, there's buses, there's cheap coaches, there's trains, there's a motorway and there's even a night sleeper service to take her back and forth from the capital.
> 
> *That's more than many other folks get*.


Name them.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> The 1 flight left will be at 9pm at night. No good for people trying to get to work (which is what the flight is mainly used for ) Or for people like ourselves trying to  get a night away.


How many people living in Newquay work in London then?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> How many people living in Newquay work in London then?


The Air SW and Ryanair morning flights are usually full of business people commuting to London. They don't all live in Newquay   Do all people taking flights from London live in Gatwick or Heathrow?


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Name them.


Pick any one of many small mid Wales towns where they're up to 30 miles from the nearest railhead and there's zero direct coaches and barely a bus passing by to London.

You're incredibly well connected by comparison to many towns.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> But the more the merrier to New York eh?


Perhaps you were so busy feeling smug at your _bon mot_ that you failed to observe the caveat I applied to my earlier post about "reasonable transport alternatives" being available.

So where's the train station and coach station for New York then?


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> The Air SW and Ryanair morning flights are usually full of business people commuting to London.


So do you approve of such long distance commuting then?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Perhaps you were so busy feeling smug at your _bon mot_ that you failed to observe the caveat I applied to my earlier post about "reasonable transport alternatives" being available.
> 
> So where's the train station and coach station for New York then?


You could go by boat  Or you could not go at all which is what's likely to happen to us.


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> So do you approve of such long distance commuting then?


What does that have to do with the thread?


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> What does that have to do with the thread?


Everything. You're demanding a level of service in a semi-remote location that can only be sustained by "business people commuting to London" so I can only assume you approve of such long distance commuting. Do you?


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> You could go by boat


I get seasick.


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Everything. You're demanding a level of service in a semi-remote location that can only be sustained by "business people commuting to London" so I can only assume you approve of such long distance commuting. Do you?



If it means that poeple living in a rural community can have a crack at jobs with fair pay in London then yes. If it's just so rich business men can buy houses in Cornwall then no.


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I get seasick.


Don't go at all then. If your morals dictate that you're against air travel then it's hypocritical to use it at all IMVVHO


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> If it means that poeple living in a rural community can have a crack at jobs with fair pay in London then yes. If it's just so rich business men can buy houses in Cornwall then no.




so people in cornwall are getting medium-paying jobs in london and using the plane to communte? that's a new one on me. most people who do things like that (eg. firemen, track repair workers) use their own cars from what i've heard.

it's a shame that you won't be able to make it to london because of this decision by ryanair madzone, but as i said earlier, i don't think it's unreasonable to point out that you have chosen to live somewhere which is a fair way from london, and hence it's pretty impractical trying to get up here for one night only anyway.

perhaps you could get someone to mind the smallholding and take a long weekend in london instead, to justify the journey?


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## Jangla (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> madzone, it is a simple fact that you choose to live somewhere which is a certain distance from the capital city, both geographically and in terms of transport. there's no point in getting angry about the fact that the time-space continuum can't be altered in order to give you an easy way of visiting london for just one night. as the editor says, there's a perfectly good sleeper train. it's unfortunate that your lifestyle/home situation means you can't use that, but that's not the fault of anyone but yourself.


And if we all thought like that we may as well cut Corwall away fom the country and let it drift off into the sea.  What about the tens of thousands of people who are born there and have no choice as to where they live?

Considering the tourism generated down there, the CC do seem a little backward at times.  All for the sake of a fiver that most passengers would be more than willing to pay to visit some of the most beautiful countryside england has to offer.


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

I was born here. I've grown up with people saying if we want to make it in the world we have to move away, leave our familes, the beautiful place we live in - just to make a wage that would enable us to get a mortgage?
I'm not sure you appreciate the scale of the problem down here Kea.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Don't go at all then. If your morals dictate that you're against air travel then it's hypocritical to use it at all IMVVHO


Are you being intentionally dense here?

I'm against air travel when there are - for the third time - *reasonable transport alternatives available.*


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## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

oh jesus. 

while i appreciate that madzone's lot might be slightly better than others in even less well provided for areas, i still think she's entitled to have a moan about it without being ripped to fucking shreds. or am i missing something?


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Jangla said:
			
		

> And if we all thought like that we may as well cut Corwall away fom the country and let it drift off into the sea.  What about the tens of thousands of people who are born there and have no choice as to where they live?
> 
> Considering the tourism generated down there, the CC do seem a little backward at times.  All for the sake of a fiver that most passengers would be more than willing to pay to visit some of the most beautiful countryside england has to offer.




oh do't be so overdramatic for christ's sakes, i'm not arguing for the removal of all public transport links to cornwall, i'm simply pointing out that it's a bit unrealistic for someone from rural cornwall to expect air travel to facilitate them paying a one night visit to london when they feel like it!


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I was born here. I've grown up with people saying if we want to make it in the world we have to move away, leave our familes, the beautiful place we live in - just to make a wage that would enable us to get a mortgage?
> I'm not sure you appreciate the scale of the problem down here Kea.




what does any of that (i have written articles about the economy and housing situation in cornwall madzone, i'm not a total twat) have to do with the fact that ryanair isnt' facilitating your one-night stop over in london?


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> while i appreciate that madzone's lot might be slightly better than others in even less well provided for areas, i still think she's entitled to have a moan about it without being ripped to fucking shreds. or am i missing something?


If she's going to post up her moans, folks are entitled to react and comment to them.

That's how this here interwebby board thing works, innit?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> what does any of that (i have written articles about the economy and housing situation in cornwall madzone, i'm not a total twat) have to do with the fact that ryanair isnt' facilitating your one-night stop over in london?


Because it's part of the wider assumption that we somehow have to be happy being 3rd class citizens in terms of any kind of provisions (be it transport, education, employment) and what's more we should be ahppy about it becasue we're lucky enough to live by the beach.


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## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

at the editor: yeh, but come on.

for every moan, there will be a counter-moan, life's complicated. are you telling me you've never moaned and bitched on here about something that's pissed you off that actually has another side to the story you've not taken into account? it's just human nature, and it just seems like people are queueing up to have a pop over something which - the broader transport / socio-economic picture aside - must be fucking irritating


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Are you being intentionally dense here?


Oh here we go   

It's your toy so you get to talk to people like they're shit.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Because it's part of the wider assumption that we somehow have to be happy being 3rd class citizens in terms of any kind of provisions (be it transport, education, employment) and what's more we should be ahppy about it becasue we're lucky enough to live by the beach.




how does 'only' one ryanair flight a day make you and other cornish people '3rd class citizens'?

edit: i want to visit cornwall. there's only one ryanair flight a day! does that make me a 3rd class citizen as well??


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> oh jesus.
> 
> while i appreciate that madzone's lot might be slightly better than others in even less well provided for areas, i still think she's entitled to have a moan about it without being ripped to fucking shreds. or am i missing something?



She's hardly been ripped to shreds. One or two people have pointed out that it's not really realistic to expect to live at the far end of the country and throw a tantrum if you can't get plane travel on demand to go and see a show in London for the night.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Because it's part of the wider assumption that we somehow have to be happy being 3rd class citizens in terms of any kind of provisions (be it transport, education, employment) and what's more we should be ahppy about it becasue we're lucky enough to live by the beach.


"Third class citizens"? WTF?

Err, many, many towns don't enjoy Newquay's connectivity:



> *By Air*
> Newquay Airport has daily flights to and from London Gatwick and London stansted airports connecting with national and international flights. Contact Ryanair on +44 (0)871 2460000 www.ryanair.com and Air South West on +44 (0)870 2418202 www.airsouthwest.com
> 
> *By Rail*
> ...


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> It's your toy so you get to talk to people like they're shit.


Oh yes, That's _actually_ what I'm doing, isn't it?



If you keep trying to intentionally misrepresent my words, I've every right to correct you. 

How many times do I have to keep repeating _what I actually said _before it sinks in?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Ah fuck it. I'm today's sacrificial sheep 

There's more to Cornwall than you can see on a fold up bike you know. Some of us actually live here. You keep coming down and looking at cornwall through your rose tinted specs but don't be surprised if I run you over in my 4x4


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> but don't be surprised if I run you over in my 4x4



Why not drive to Exeter in your 4x4 and catch a plane from there?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Why not drive to Exeter in your 4x4 and catch a plane from there?


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Ah fuck it. I'm today's sacrificial sheep
> 
> There's more to Cornwall than you can see on a fold up bike you know. Some of us actually live here. You keep coming down and looking at cornwall through your rose tinted specs but don't be surprised if I run you over in my 4x4




ie. 'i don't have an answer'.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> There's more to Cornwall than you can see on a fold up bike you know. Some of us actually live here. You keep coming down and looking at cornwall through your rose tinted specs but don't be surprised if I run you over in my 4x4


I've been going to Cornwall since before you were born and I've only ever been on a folding bike _once_. And you can shove you patronising "rose tinted specs" comments right up your landing pad.

I'm more than aware of the socio-economic problems facing Cornwall, thanks. They aren't a great deal different to the kind of problems faced in my home country.

If you really care for your area, you should be grateful that people like me aren't put off by the lack of a polluting air service and use environmentally sound means of getting there and then getting about the area.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

incidentally, there are other airlines which also fly from cornwall to london, including -

http://www.airsouthwest.com/newquay-london.shtml
4 flights a day, every day of the week!!


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Why not drive to Exeter in your 4x4 and catch a plane from there?


Or even - gasp! - get a train to Plymouth and catch a plan from there?


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> incidentally, there are other airlines which also fly from cornwall to london, including -
> 
> http://www.airsouthwest.com/newquay-london.shtml
> 4 flights a day, every day of the week!!



how dare you provide facts that might get in the way of a good old bout of cornish whinging!


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Or Use Another Airline As My Post Above Demonstrates!!!!


edit: the airport website also has flights by bmibaby, monarch and skybus incidentally.


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## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> edit: the airport website also has flights by bmibaby, monarch and skybus incidentally.


I'm beginning to feel sorry for the those poor "third class citizens" nearby who must have to put up with the  endless racket and the pollution from all these flights taking off from Newquay!


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

not to mention the rumble of trains as they roll back and forth across the cornish countryside! oh and the national express buses ... why it must be the most incommunicado outpost in the whole british empire   
((((((((((poor cornish people)))))))))))))


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## WasGeri (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I've been going to Cornwall since before you were born



How is that possible?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> incidentally, there are other airlines which also fly from cornwall to london, including -
> 
> http://www.airsouthwest.com/newquay-london.shtml
> 4 flights a day, every day of the week!!


Quite right Kea. The cheapest ticket being £56 pp each way. Somewhat more expensive than Ryanair's £5 a each way


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> ie. 'i don't have an answer'.


*hands up* No, I don't have an answer Kea. I post a small moan, fuelled by disappointment at not being able to go on the trip I planned, which then turns into a smug London fuckers versus the yokels bitchfest.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Quite right Kea. The cheapest ticket being £56 pp each way. Somewhat more expensive than Ryanair's £5 a each way




ah ok so it's not that there's only one flight a day you're complaining about, it's that the flights aren't cheap enough for you?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> not to mention the rumble of trains as they roll back and forth across the cornish countryside! oh and the national express buses ... why it must be the most incommunicado outpost in the whole british empire
> ((((((((((poor cornish people)))))))))))))


Yeah, lets hop on the coach that takes 12 hrs to get to London. What am I thinking of? 1 hr each way on the plane versus 12 hrs each way on the coach - what on earth am I moaning about?


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

It's a terrible state of affairs when a farmer from one of the furthest reaches of the British mainland can't get to go for a night out in the West End for less than 10 quid by plane. It's no wonder farming's in decline


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> ah ok so it's not that there's only one flight a day you're complaining about, it's that the flights aren't cheap enough for you?



The plane provided a vaible alternative to train travel at that cost.

*Checks to see if she's grown whiskers and a tail and a strange liking for cheese*


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> It's a terrible state of affairs when a farmer from one of the furthest reaches of the British mainland can't get to go for a night out in the West End for less than 10 quid by plane. It's no wonder farming's in decline


I'm not a farmer..

Ohhh I love it when all the urban inadequates smell blood


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I've been going to Cornwall since before you were born and I've only ever been on a folding bike _once_. And you can shove you patronising "rose tinted specs" comments right up your landing pad.
> 
> I'm more than aware of the socio-economic problems facing Cornwall, thanks. They aren't a great deal different to the kind of problems faced in my home country.
> 
> If you really care for your area, you should be grateful that people like me aren't put off by the lack of a polluting air service and use environmentally sound means of getting there and then getting about the area.



I'll be grateful for people like you coming to cornwall when hell freezes over 

I'm 40 - how old are you?


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## Jangla (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> oh do't be so overdramatic for christ's sakes, i'm not arguing for the removal of all public transport links to cornwall, i'm simply pointing out that it's a bit unrealistic for someone from rural cornwall to expect air travel to facilitate them paying a one night visit to london when they feel like it!


Why is it unrealistic?  It was in place until very recently.  If there was no such thing previoulsy I'd be on your side but the point is that a service that many have come to rely on has been removed without due conslutation of the very users of the service.


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I'm not a farmer..
> 
> Ohhh I love it when all the urban inadequates smell blood



Blood? No, it was shit I smelt someone talking

is that urban with a big U or a little one? Cos it's semi rural and 250 miles from London here


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Jangla said:
			
		

> Why is it unrealistic?  It was in place until very recently.  If there was no such thing previoulsy I'd be on your side but the point is that a service that many have come to rely on has been removed without due conslutation of the very users of the service.


Thank you very much


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Blood? No, it was shit I smelt someone talking
> 
> is that urban with a big U or a little one? Cos it's semi rural and 250 miles from London here



So, if you had been using a service for a couple of years which was convenient and viable cost wise you wouldn't be pissed off if somoene removed it just as you had a trip planned and trebled your travellling time for more cost  thus making the trip unviable?


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

Jangla said:
			
		

> Why is it unrealistic?  It was in place until very recently.  If there was no such thing previoulsy I'd be on your side but the point is that a service that many have come to rely on has been removed without due conslutation of the very users of the service.



Oh come on! Nobody here is talking about relying on anything. It's not like a life or death thing. One person is whinging cos they can't get exactly what they want - ie a dirt cheap return fare to London at the precise time of day they like for a pleasure trip in a time frame which is pretty unrealistic given the distance they have to travel.

As people have pointed out there are other airlines and other means of transport and they could try and do something about the time they have to spend away.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> The plane provided a vaible alternative to train travel at that cost.




yes but SHOULD IT? that, my little yokel, is what i am getting at.


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## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Jangla said:
			
		

> Why is it unrealistic?  It was in place until very recently.  If there was no such thing previoulsy I'd be on your side but the point is that a service that many have come to rely on has been removed without due conslutation of the very users of the service.




are low-cost short-haul flights a 'service'? i don't think so. if you think they're a community service presumably you'd approve of ryanair being given public subsidy to keep them going, in the same way that the rail network receives public subsidy because of its community benefits?


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> yes but SHOULD IT? that, my little yokel, is what i am getting at.


SHOULD there be any air travel at all? That's a stupid point. There was a service and now it's been stopped. You'd be pissed off if it happened to you.


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## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> So, if you had been using a service for a couple of years which was convenient and viable cost wise you wouldn't be pissed off if somoene removed it just as you had a trip planned and trebled your travellling time for more cost  thus making the trip unviable?



Yeah, I would. Had you actually booked? 

What's wrong with the other airline exactly?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> are low-cost short-haul flights a 'service'? i don't think so. if you think they're a community service presumably you'd approve of ryanair being given public subsidy to keep them going, in the same way that the rail network receives public subsidy because of its community benefits?


Maybe there should be no internal flights at all then. Let's campaign for that.

By service I mean as in bus service, rail service. I'm not insinuating it's a right. I'm sure Jangla isn't either.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Yeah, I would. Had you actually booked?
> 
> What's wrong with the other airline exactly?


I wasn't booking till the end of this week as I'm waiting for hotel vouchers to come through.

The other service is too expensive. It'll work out at nearly 300 quid.


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

so are people telling me that if they made use of a service which was then withdrawn - even for good reasons - rather than go 'oh bugger' and moan about it, they would carefully consider the entire socio-economic question and just live with it?

bollocks, frankly


----------



## Jangla (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> are low-cost short-haul flights a 'service'? i don't think so. if you think they're a community service presumably you'd approve of ryanair being given public subsidy to keep them going, in the same way that the rail network receives public subsidy because of its community benefits?


If you'd spent as many hours as I have on the A-friggin-303 then , yes, it's a service    And this entire thread is about a subsidy (paid by the public) to keep it going, which CC took upon themselves to decide - so yes again.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Jangla said:
			
		

> If you'd spent as many hours as I have on the A-friggin-303 then , yes, it's a service    And this entire thread is about a subsidy (paid by the public) to keep it going - so yes again.


It fucking is subsidised isn't it?? I forgot about that.


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> so are people telling me that if they made use of a service which was then withdrawn - even for good reasons - rather than go 'oh bugger' and moan about it, they would carefully consider the entire socio-economic question and just live with it?
> 
> bollocks, frankly



hehe, here's Dubversion with the counter-counterpoint. Urban's such a giggle sometimes


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> SHOULD there be any air travel at all? That's a stupid point.




no, that's not what i asked. what i asked was, should there be cheap short haul flights? i think no, because i think that flight prices should reflect all the costs including the environmental. short haul flights in particular involve a large amount of environmental damage proportional to their result, especially given that there are other travel options such as trains.
therefore no, i don't think it's your god-given right to have cheap short haul flights - preferably more than one a day - from cornwall to london. i think you should get the train.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Jangla said:
			
		

> And this entire thread is about a subsidy (paid by the public) to keep it going, which CC took upon themselves to decide - so yes again.



you think it's the right thing to do, to spend government money paying for cheap short-haul flights? blimey.


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I wasn't booking till the end of this week as I'm waiting for hotel vouchers to come through.
> 
> The other service is too expensive. It'll work out at nearly 300 quid.



Looks like the train then? Often (I did Leeds to Exeter by plane the other week) it doesn't work out that much longer on the train if you take into account check in time, baggage collection, travel to and from airport. It's just easier on the plane


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> no, that's not what i asked. what i asked was, should there be cheap short haul flights? i think no, because i think that flight prices should reflect all the costs including the environmental. short haul flights in particular involve a large amount of environmental damage proportional to their result, especially given that there are other travel options such as trains.
> therefore no, i don't think it's your god-given right to have cheap short haul flights - preferably more than one a day - from cornwall to london. i think you should get the train.




I've never said it's my god given right?   

I've said I'm pissed off that my trip has been fucked up. 

And if it's not _my_ right to have cheap, short haul flights I take it you've never flown to Europe?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Looks like the train then? Often (I did Leeds to Exeter by plane the other week) it doesn't work out that much longer on the train if you take into account check in time, baggage collection, travel to and from airport. It's just easier on the plane


It's much quicker. You're in London (liverpool St) by 11am as ooposed to 2.30pm. With all due respect if you haven't done the trip you can't know what you're talking about. AND it's explained at the beginning of the thread why the train is an unsuitable option.


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I don't know if I'm more pissed off with Ryanair or Cornwall CC but they've had a tiff over a £5 passenger tax which the council wanted to charge Ryanair.
> 
> Why did they have to do that when I'm supposed to be going away?  That's really fucked us up
> 
> http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=05&month=aug&story=rte-en-310805




i thought it might be worth reposting the original thread starter. read it again. it's someone that's pissed off about an air route being reduced. that's all.

it's just human nature, surely, to be miffed about that?

if they stopped selling Red Stripe in my local offlicence i'd be pissed off. further investigation might reveal that there were sound reasons, and of course i could always drink Grolsch. but i bet i'll still moan about it.

po-faced fuckers


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> "Third class citizens"? WTF?
> 
> Err, many, many towns don't enjoy Newquay's connectivity:



Err, I don't live in Newquay


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i thought it might be worth reposting the original thread starter. read it again. it's someone that's pissed off about an air route being reduced. that's all.
> 
> it's just human nature, surely, to be miffed about that?
> 
> ...



*passes dub a tin of red stripe*

Anyway, I reckon there's just a couple of bored people on Urban today and I've provided a short diversion for them to flex their po faces and vent some spleen.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I'll be grateful for people like you coming to cornwall when hell freezes over


Fuck you then.

Seems that your "concern" is purely selfish.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Fuck you then.
> 
> Seems that your "concern" is purely selfish.


  

I've never hidden my hatred of tourists.

And I've NEVER said my concern was anything BUT selfish.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

BTW Kea I can fly with Monarch - you're quite right - only trouble is I don't want to go to Malaga


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I've never said it's my god given right?
> 
> I've said I'm pissed off that my trip has been fucked up.



and as i've said, i'm sorry to hear that. it's clearly bad timing and it's unfortunate. what i was taking issue with, however, was your later posts, not your first post. in your later posts you said - "why shouldn't we have the same travel options as other people?" and asserted that you were being treated like '3rd class citizens'. that is what i am disputing.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I've never hidden my hatred of tourists.


So you hate the very people that help keep Cornwall provided with public transport and many of its inhabitants in employment?

What a strange outlook.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> BTW Kea I can fly with Monarch - you're quite right - only trouble is I don't want to go to Malaga




you should, the weather's better!


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> So you hate the very people that help keep Cornwall provided with public transport?
> 
> What a strange outlook.


So an area can only have a public transport infrastructure for people who don't live there?  What a strange idea.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> you should, the weather's better!


And the people are less grumpy


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

are planes 'public transport infrastructure'?
if you're on the scilly isles, perhaps ...


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> and as i've said, i'm sorry to hear that. it's clearly bad timing and it's unfortunate. what i was taking issue with, however, was your later posts, not your first post. in your later posts you said - "why shouldn't we have the same travel options as other people?" and asserted that you were being treated like '3rd class citizens'. that is what i am disputing.


But - own pissed offness aside - why shouldn't we have the same opportunities as other places?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> And the people are less grumpy




we're not grumpy, just anti-yokel - you lot don't walk fast enough down the street when you're visiting town. oh and you don't stand on the right of the escalator.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> are planes 'public transport infrastructure'?
> if you're on the scilly isles, perhaps ...


Ed said about tourists being the reason our public transport was kept going. The plane service is used as much, maybe more by business people and poeple travelling to work than tourists.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> But - own pissed offness aside - why shouldn't we have the same opportunities as other places?




this is what i don't understand. by the looks of it you have very good travel opportunities, with several planes a day of which at least one is jolly cheap. plus train, sleeper, coaches, etc etc. what other places are you talking about?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Ed said about tourists being the reason our public transport was kept going. The plane service is used as much, maybe more by business people and poeple travelling to work than tourists.




yeah and in the case of cornwall i accept that but i wouldn't class it as 'public transport', i know it's pickyness but i wouldn't.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> we're not grumpy, just anti-yokel - you lot don't walk fast enough down the street when you're visiting town. oh and you don't stand on the right of the escalator.


I wouldn't put my sensitive feet on your stinking streets love - I get carried around ina  sedan chair when I'm there . And escalator?! How common


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> *passes dub a tin of red stripe*
> 
> Anyway, I reckon there's just a couple of bored people on Urban today and I've provided a short diversion for them to flex their po faces and vent some spleen.



Soz, maybe we should've all queud up to give you big ((((((()))))))s

I wasn't bored. I just found it staggering that you were so surprised that you couldn't shoot up to London to catch a show from one of the extremities of the British Isles in such a ridiculously short time window. It came across to me as a self-centred temper tantrum, especially when all the Cornish persecuton complex stuff appeared in your second post


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> yeah and in the case of cornwall i accept that but i wouldn't class it as 'public transport', i know it's pickyness but i wouldn't.


I was talking about transport in general, kea - now I've forgotten what I was saying!    Bully

Ahh yes - it came about from me saying I hate tourists ( which I do , with a passion) and Ed started talking about public transport. Blame him


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Soz, maybe we should've all queud up to give you big ((((((()))))))s
> 
> I wasn't bored. I just found it staggering that you were so surprised that you couldn't shoot up to London to catch a show from one of the extremities of the British Isles in such a ridiculously short time window. It came across to me as a self-centred temper tantrum, especially when all the Cornish persecuton complex stuff appeared in your second post



But I could, until ryanair had a hissy fit.


----------



## WasGeri (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> i think that flight prices should reflect all the costs including the environmental. short haul flights in particular involve a large amount of environmental damage proportional to their result



How do you get to Greece when you go on holiday with mummy and daddy?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> now I've forgotten what I was saying!    Bully




 aha my method worked 
<goes off to find some newbies to tread on>


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> How do you get to Greece when you go on holiday with mummy and daddy?




i swam, geri.
and i call them mum and dad these days, not being 5 years old any more.

do you think, incidentally, that flying to another country which would take over 24 hours on a train is comparable to getting from one part of the country to another, which takes iirc 4 to 5 hours by train? seems a minor difference in magnitude to me.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> aha my method worked
> <goes off to find some newbies to tread on>


Read the edit bitch 
*blows smoke off end of revovlver*

You know I'm not really saying you're a bitch don't you? I'm just trying to be hard


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

christ.

and another seemingly innocent thread collapses into fucking nastiness.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> i swam, geri.
> and i call them mum and dad these days, not being 5 years old any more.
> 
> do you think, incidentally, that flying to another country which would take over 24 hours on a train is comparable to getting from one part of the country to another, which takes iirc 4 to 5 hours by train? seems a minor difference in magnitude to me.


Well yeah, I think it's relative.  Why shouldn't the longer travelling hours be taken into consideration by poeple travelling to Greece? My travelling time has trebled. 12 hrs is how long it takes me to get to London on the coach.

Why can't they get a sleeper like I've been told to do?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> christ.
> 
> and another seemingly innocent thread collapses into fucking nastiness.


Mine was a joke dub - kea will know that.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> You know I'm not really saying you're a bitch don't you? I'm just trying to be hard




i know. it doesn't work tho cos i know you actually look like this -


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

LMFAO @ kea


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> 12 hrs is how long it takes me to get to London on the coach.




or 4-5 hours on the train. or overnight on the sleeper. i know that's no good to your personal circumstances and that's a shame but i don't think it makes a strong enough case to justify your argument tbh.


edit: re: greece sleeper - if there was a train i could get from london to corfu town overnight that would be great (as i'm a bit scared of flying  ). i think the snowtrain is the best invention ever. however, afaik there isn't one. if anyone wants to do battle with european rail timetables and find one for me, that would be great. geri?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> or 4-5 hours on the train. or overnight on the sleeper. i know that's no good to your personal circumstances and that's a shame but i don't think it makes a strong enough case to justify your argument tbh.


But people can get to greece in the time it takes me to get to London!

Why shouldn't it take 24 hrs on the train to get to Greece? I don't think it justifies flying if you can get there by train.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> edit: re: greece sleeper - if there was a train i could get from london to corfu town overnight that would be great (as i'm a bit scared of flying  ). i think the snowtrain is the best invention ever. however, afaik there isn't one. if anyone wants to do battle with european rail timetables and find one for me, that would be great. geri?


But by the arguments that have been posted towards me, you have no right to _expect_ to be able to fly to Greece. 

If it's tricky to plan that's just too bad.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> i swam, geri.
> and i call them mum and dad these days, not being 5 years old any more.
> 
> do you think, incidentally, that flying to another country which would take over 24 hours on a train is comparable to getting from one part of the country to another, which takes iirc 4 to 5 hours by train? seems a minor difference in magnitude to me.



Its a fair point though. Your concern with the environment doesn't stop you going on holiday.  

I know of someone who simply won't use planes because of the environmental damage they cause.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 1, 2005)

Anyway.. the train journey from Cornwall's quite I nice one IMHO.. Wouldn't use a coach in a million years..


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Anyway.. the train journey from Cornwall's quite I nice one IMHO.. Wouldn't use a coach in a million years..


It depends why you're doing it. It loses it's novelty when you've done it since you were small.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> But by the arguments that have been posted towards me, you have no right to expect to be able to fly to Greece.
> 
> If it's tricky to plan that's just too bad.



there was one flight to corfu on the day i was going. it wasn't on the most convenient day for me, either - there aren't flights everyday. but i wanted to go so i fitted my schedule around it, i got up very early to get the inconveniently-timed flight, and i went for a week in order to make the length of journey seem worthwhile. 
as i've said above, it's not a destination to which train links are do-able (afaik).

you want to go to london by plane, for one night, from a place which has multiple alternatives to your chosen means of travel. i think it's not a comparable situation.

you CAN go for a night by plane but you don't want to pay for it.
you CAN go by train but it takes a bit longer and you don't like that either.
you COULD choose to go for longer, but that doesn't fit in with the rest of your life.
you COULD get the inconveniently-timed flights but those don't suit your exact plans.
can you see where i'm going with this?
soemthing's got to give.
none of the transport available to you fits in with your plans/wishes and that's a shame but i think you're being unreasonable in expecting it to.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Its a fair point though. Your concern with the environment doesn't stop you going on holiday.




my disagreement with madzone isn't based on 'concern for the environment' hollis, it's because it seems to me that she's expecting the unreasonable.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 1, 2005)

Oh,, okay..


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> there was one flight to corfu on the day i was going. it wasn't on the most convenient day for me, either - there aren't flights everyday. but i wanted to go so i fitted my schedule around it, i got up very early to get the inconveniently-timed flight, and i went for a week in order to make the length of journey seem worthwhile.
> as i've said above, it's not a destination to which train links are do-able (afaik).
> 
> you want to go to london by plane, for one night, from a place which has multiple alternatives to your chosen means of travel. i think it's not a comparable situation.
> ...




I can see where you're going with it. It's ok for you but not for me. You want to go to Corfu so it's right that there's a conveneint service to get you there. I want to go to London and I'm not allowed to be pissed off that they've removed the most conveneint service we had.That's the whole ethos towards people in rural areas. I don't agree with your argument about Corfu. You talk about my plans as if they're all wants and wishes whilst yours are needs. It's city mentality through and through. We come up against it all the time down here.
''If you don't like it you shouldn't live there''


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> my disagreement with madzone isn't based on 'concern for the environment' hollis, it's because it seems to me that she's expecting the unreasonable.



surely the point is that until this recent change, it wasn't unreasonable? it was in fact entirely possible. any change like that will irk people surely, regardless of the justifications?


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 1, 2005)

That's the problem solved 









Except that they are short of theatres


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> surely the point is that until this recent change, it wasn't unreasonable? it was in fact entirely possible. any change like that will irk people surely, regardless of the justifications?


That's the central point that people seem to be missing.


----------



## Jangla (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> you think it's the right thing to do, to spend government money paying for cheap short-haul flights? blimey.


Dont put words in my...er..post    I said that the argument was derived from the public being asked to pay a subsidy and rather than consult, CC took the decision for them.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Ground Elder said:
			
		

> That's the problem solved
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The whole place is a fucking theatre 

You know I'm banned from Camborne


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

no madzone, my desire to go on holiday to corfu is not a need, it's a desire. one which i know i must fit with the schedules and transport methods available to me. hence i compromise when i go, how i go, etc. i actually love sleeper trains. if i could get to corfu by sleeper i would much prefer to. i am hoping geri has gone quiet cos she's off finding out about sleepers for me. 
i'm going to edinburgh for work soon, incidentally. everyone else in the company flies there and thinks i'm mad for getting the train. i choose the train cos i prefer train travel, i don't believe there's that much of a time difference, and it's more environmentally friendly. i did the same when i was down in cornwall for work a few months ago.


----------



## WasGeri (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> my disagreement with madzone isn't based on 'concern for the environment'



Then why did you bring it up?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> no madzone, my desire to go on holiday to corfu is not a need, it's a desire. one which i know i must fit with the schedules and transport methods available to me. hence i compromise when i go, how i go, etc. i actually love sleeper trains. if i could get to corfu by sleeper i would much prefer to. i am hoping geri has gone quiet cos she's off finding out about sleepers for me.
> i'm going to edinburgh for work soon, incidentally. everyone else in the company flies there and thinks i'm mad for getting the train. i choose the train cos i prefer train travel, i don't believe there's that much of a time difference, and it's more environmentally friendly. i did the same when i was down in cornwall for work a few months ago.




You're only seeing things from your own perspective Kea.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Jangla said:
			
		

> I said that the argument was derived from the public being asked to pay a subsidy and rather than consult, CC took the decision for them.




i would have no problem with the public in cornwall choosing whether to pay a subsidy to keep the flights going (as long as the subsidy reflected the true full costs involved).


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> i would have no problem with the public in cornwall choosing whether to pay a subsidy to keep the flights going (as long as the subsidy reflected the true full costs involved).


But that's the point. We weren't asked. I'm all for taxing the fuck out of people who come down here and push up our water bills and hospital running charges. As for 2nd home owners don't even start me on them


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> You're only seeing things from your own perspective Kea.





rofl, says you!!! you're having a hissy fit cos flights were cut back from cornwall to bloody london forchrissakes!


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> rofl, says you!!! you're having a hissy fit cos flights were cut back from cornwall to bloody london forchrissakes!




are you telling me that in madzone's situation you wouldn't have been even a bit pissed off?


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> So an area can only have a public transport infrastructure for people who don't live there?


<bangs head against desk>

Tourism in Cornwall pumps a huge amount of money in the local transport infrastructure. Without that money coming in, there's be less of an economic case for retaining the rail service.

Without that local rail service, less people would be likely to visit the area and thus deprive the local economy of much-needed cash.

Despite your hatred of people who dare visit your corner of the world, I trust you now appreciate their contribution to your local services.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> <bangs head against desk>
> 
> Tourism in Cornwall pumps a huge amount of money in the local transport infrastructure. Without that money coming in, there's be less of an economic case for retaining the rail service.
> 
> ...



No - because they end up costing the county money in increased running costs for public services. Tourists don't use public transport. You might use the train to get here but the majority drive. Mianly because it's so fucking hard to get anywhere once you're here.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> But that's the point. We weren't asked.




there are a few issues here. one is that it's a private company not a publicly provided service, so there is a question of the degree to which their services should be open to control by local government. if the residents of cornwall think it should be a publicly provided service that's fine, i have no problems with that (other than cost as mentioned). that can be done either by subsidy of the existing private company or by a wholly public-run service being set up. that's fine, local people can decide that and i fully agree with you that if local people want this service to be provided and are willing to pay for it, then it should go ahead, that's your (collective) choice.
perhaps local government feels that the existing transport links are sufficient? what's their argument on this, have they said anything?


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> But - own pissed offness aside - why shouldn't we have the same opportunities as other places?


So you think that every small town in the UK should come equipped with its own airport offering a wide range of cheap flights then?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> So you think that every small town in the UK should come equipped with its own airport offering a wide range of cheap flights then?


*bangs head on eds desk*

I'm talking in a broader sense as you well know 

And if a place has a small airport which is of benefit to the local community then it should be kept. (environmental issues aside)


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> there are a few issues here. one is that it's a private company not a publicly provided service, so there is a question of the degree to which their services should be open to control by local government. if the residents of cornwall think it should be a publicly provided service that's fine, i have no problems with that (other than cost as mentioned). that can be done either by subsidy of the existing private company or by a wholly public-run service being set up. that's fine, local people can decide that and i fully agree with you that if local people want this service to be provided and are willing to pay for it, then it should go ahead, that's your (collective) choice.
> perhaps local government feels that the existing transport links are sufficient? what's their argument on this, have they said anything?



It's a complicated issue because it's a military airport. I haven't kept up with the ins and outs of it but a lot of is to do with airport maintenance I think

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4137732.stm


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

can you explain that a bit more? don't understand.

edit: ah ok so ryanair have cut their flights cos a levy is being imposed because of maintenance costs?


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Tourists don't use public transport.


What?

I suggest you visit the St Erth to St Ives line before repeating such a daft statement.

When was the last time you used it?



> Malcolm Bell, Chief Executive of South West Tourism said: "It is great to see initiative and vision for the South West. Quality transport infrastructure is vital for our future prosperity. A high speed rail link would significantly improve access to the South West and would mean that the tourist industry here could really capitalise on the trend towards more frequent short breaks throughout the year. Truly integrated high speed rail connections which encourage people to leave their cars at home would reduce the current peak season road congestion – good news for the people of the South West and the tourist industry."
> http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/news/release.php?item=29


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> What?
> 
> I suggest you visit the St Erth to St Ives line before repeating such a daft statement.
> 
> When was the last time you used it?



The st erth to st ives line is used becasue it's a beautiful train journey in and of itself. People aren't using it to get from A-B. I find it really amusing when you start telling me how the place I live in 2 4/7 365 days a year functions 

That article just states how useful fast links would be, it doesn't say it's used now.
Have you ever driven ina nd out of Cornwall? We have 15 mile long tailbacks both ways. If they're all on public transport why would the roads be so busy.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Is there any other county in UK which doesn't have an aiprort?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

what do you mean 'any other'? you DO have an airport.

edit: map of uk airports - 

http://www.a2btravel.com/airports/


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> can you explain that a bit more? don't understand.
> 
> edit: ah ok so ryanair have cut their flights cos a levy is being imposed because of maintenance costs?


I think so. The MoD have been footing the bill for maintenance by the sound of it and they leave the airport in 2007


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> what do you mean 'any other'? you DO have an airport.



Only because it's a military airbase. We don't have a custom built air terminal. Are there any other counties where the only aiprort has come about through MoD allowing it to be used?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

but you have passenger flights. and the mod are leaving in 2007 so then it will be fully passenger no?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> but you have passenger flights. and the mod are leaving in 2007 so then it will be fully passenger no?


Picky - you know what I mean. We don't have a proper university either. We have to borrow some from Devon.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> The st erth to st ives line is used becasue it's a beautiful train journey in and of itself.


Err, you claimed that, "Tourists don't use public transport."

You were wrong.

When was the last time you used the service?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Picky - you know what I mean. We don't have a proper university either. We have to borrow some from Devon.




no, i think it's picky to say that you don't have a proper airport, when you clearly have a fully functioning one.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> no, i think it's picky to say that you don't have a proper airport, when you clearly have a fully functioning one.


*sigh*


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Is there any other county in UK which doesn't have an aiprort?


Loads. Try looking at rural Wales and try to find the commercial airports for starters.

And then look around mid Wales.

And north Wales.

And west Wales.

etc etc


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Picky - you know what I mean. We don't have a proper university either. We have to borrow some from Devon.



Loads of counties in the UK - probably the majority - don't have universities or scheduled passenger flights. Why is Cornwall so special among these rural counties that it should have them?


----------



## jæd (Sep 1, 2005)

From what I can see on the RyanAir website there are at least two flights a day at the moment... With the introduction of the £5 charge they're going to only have one flight a day. Whats the problem with that...? How many zillions of people travel the distance there and back in a day...?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Err, you claimed that, "Tourists don't use public transport."
> 
> You were wrong.
> 
> When was the last time you used the service?



I took the kids on it last year. I don't use it for standard travel (no-one does) because I would have to drive to lelant or carbis bay to get on it when I can drive to St Ives in 5 minutes. It's a scenic railway in all but name. 
*Hands ed a straw so he doesn't have to hurt his hands clutching at them*


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Loads. Try looking at rural Wales and try to find the commercial airports for starters.
> 
> And then look around mid Wales.
> 
> ...


It was a genuine question. No need to get your boxers in a  lather.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

jæd said:
			
		

> From what I can see on the RyanAir website there are at least two flights a day at the moment... With the introduction of the £5 charge they're going to only have one flight a day. Whats the problem with that...? How many zillions of people travel the distance there and back in a day...?


Locals doing Christmas shopping, people doing day trips to London to see friends, or to hit the shops. It's viable on the airoplane you see jaed, whereas it's an 11 hr round trip on the train or in the car. On the aeroplane you're in London by 11am and don't come back until 8pm or so at night.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Loads of counties in the UK - probably the majority - don't have universities or scheduled passenger flights. Why is Cornwall so special among these rural counties that it should have them?


Geography has a part to play in it. We've got water on 3 sides of us.  So, whereas someone in another county may have other adjacent counties to tap into we only have Devon. I'm as far away from Devon as you can get.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Locals doing Christmas shopping, people doing day trips to London to see friends, or to hit the shops. It's viable on the airoplane you see jaed, whereas it's an 11 hr round trip on the train or in the car. On the aeroplane you're in London by 11am and don't come back until 8pm or so at night.



yes and that's very nice but is it actually necessary? i mean, there are plenty of cities between cornwall and london in which you could do your christmas shopping aren't there?  coming into london isn't actually a necessity for life, is it? it's a luxury (or not, depending on your opinion of the place  )


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> yes and that's very nice but is it actually necessary? i mean, there are plenty of cities between cornwall and london in which you could do your christmas shopping aren't there?  coming into london isn't actually a necessity for life, is it? it's a luxury (or not, depending on your opinion of the place  )


Choice kea, choice. People in cities seem to feel that choice is their right whilst us bumpkins should be content with limits.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I took the kids on it last year. I don't use it for standard travel (no-one does) because I would have to drive to lelant or carbis bay to get on it when I can drive to St Ives in 5 minutes. It's a scenic railway in all but name.


So when you made the emphatic claim that "Tourists don't use public transport" what you actually meant was "Tourists don't use public transport, except the ones who pack on to the St Ives line to, err,  purely admire the "scenic railway", yes?

That's rather strange because I could have sworn I saw lots of holidaying families clutching beach towels and the like on the train. Were they planning on having a paddle on the train, do you think?

In fact, I could have sworn I was talking to a tourist in the Sloop Inn who told me that - like us -  he'd caught the train to and from Penzance a couple of times durnig his holiday.

Does this make him a non-tourist in your eyes then?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> Then why did you bring it up?




because it's one aspect. i do think that air travel when there is a viable alternative means of transport isn't justified. i wouldn't fly to paris for example, i wouldn't fly to edinburgh, glasgow, cornwall ... etc.
yes OBVIOUSLY that then raises the question of where the boundary is, for example if you can change trains in paris to get where you're going, and that's a matter that people are going to have varying opinions on. but i DO think that unless someone has a good reason, travelling from newquay to london on the plane is just not necessary. it's a luxury, as i said above.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> So when you made the emphatic claim that "Tourists don't use public transport" what you actually meant was "Tourists don't use public transport, except the ones who pack on to the St Ives line to, err,  purely admire the "scenic railway", yes?
> 
> That's rather strange because I could have sworn I saw lots of holidaying families clutching beach towels and the like on the train. Were they planning on having a paddle on the train, do you think?
> 
> ...


Sorry - I forgot, you're such an expert on cornwall aren't you? You speak to one tourist in the pub who came on the train and suddenly you can state that people don't actually drive here at all! Fuck me, you're Tobyjug and I claim my £5


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Choice kea, choice. People in cities seem to feel that choice is their right whilst us bumpkins should be content with limits.


How wrong you are. I've already signed my name to the 'saveoursleeper.com' campaign site and actively do my bit for the local railway's survival by extensively using the service when we're in Cornwall.

I just can't get excited about the supposed 'need' for filthy, polluting air traffic when there's practical, less environmentally harmful alternatives available.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Choice kea, choice. People in cities seem to feel that choice is their right whilst us bumpkins should be content with limits.




madzone, there are good things and bad things about living in cities, there are good things and bad things about living in the countryside. the fact that it's a bit harder for you to get into london and back is just a fact of living in cornwall. as i said in my first post, short of altering the space-time continuum i don't see what can be done. you DID choose to live in cornwall and it IS a long way from london and that's just an upside/downside (depending on your view) of living where you do.
i'm sorry if that sounds like metropolitan arrogance but if you've got a different logical argument please let me know, cos i'm interested to hear it. so far it seems to consist of 'we deserve to be able to get to and from london in a day, because we do'.


----------



## jæd (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Choice kea, choice. People in cities seem to feel that choice is their right whilst us bumpkins should be content with limits.



If you are that dependent on your friends in London, or the choice in shops, perhaps you should move to London. Its your choice to live in Cornwall...!


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Sorry - I forgot, you're such an expert on cornwall aren't you? You speak to one tourist in the pub who came on the train and suddenly you can state that people don't actually drive here at all!


So was he a tourist in your eyes or not? And what about al lthose people on the tran every day? Where they all there to admire the scenic railway?

After all, it's not me making the emphatic claim that "Tourists don't use public transport"!!!

Oh, and I hate to call you a liar, so I'd be obliged if you could point me in the direction of a post where I've claimed that "people don't actually drive here at all" as you've claimed.

If you can't find such a post, I'd be obliged if you apologised for trying to put words in my mouth. That's not nice, you know.


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Choice kea, choice. People in cities seem to feel that choice is their right whilst us bumpkins should be content with limits.



I think if you choose to live far from the UK's big cities there are limits that you just have to put up with. I lived in London for 13 years and had access to 24 hour shopping, mugging, foul water and traffic jams. Since moving up north I'm happy to forego the 'pleasures' of the city for the clean air, countryside and other qualities of life.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Here you go Ed

*''In 2002/03 88.6% of the visitors travelled by car, 5.4% by coach, 4.2% by train and 2.9% by air and other modes''*


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> I think if you choose to live far from the UK's big cities there are limits that you just have to put up with. I lived in London for 13 years and had access to 24 hour shopping, mugging, foul water and traffic jams. Since moving up north I'm happy to forego the 'pleasures' of the city for the clean air, countryside and other qualities of life.


lol - so we're back to the 'If you don't like it don't live there' argument. I was born here.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> It was a genuine question. No need to get your boxers in a  lather.


More like a stupid one, is you ask me. 

Oh, and I don't wear boxers. Horrible things.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

it's nice that you live where you were born madz but if you want to be near a big city for shopping/theatre/whatever then your choices are - 
a) build one in cornwall
b) move to be near a big city


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> So was he a tourist in your eyes or not? And what about al lthose people on the tran every day? Where they all there to admire the scenic railway?
> 
> After all, it's not me making the emphatic claim that "Tourists don't use public transport"!!!
> 
> ...



I've posted you a little statistic. Maybe your little blokey in the pub was the .2%?

I'll apologise when you do.


----------



## WasGeri (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Tourists don't use public transport. You might use the train to get here but the majority drive. Mianly because it's so fucking hard to get anywhere once you're here.



We use public transport when we come to Cornwall as neither of us drive. We manage _reasonably_ well, but there are some places that are very inaccessible by train or bus (I'm thinking of the Lizard).


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> but if you want to be near a big city for shopping/theatre/whatever then your choices are -
> a) build one in cornwall
> b) move to be near a big city


Or be allowed to be pissed off when a useful service which you've used many times is withdrawn?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> We use public transport when we come to Cornwall as neither of us drive. We manage _reasonably_ well, but there are some places that are very inaccessible by train or bus (I'm thinking of the Lizard).


Yep, pain in the ass trying to get to certain places. Of course some people come on the train, I'm not disputing that, but as the statistic I posted shows, it's less than 5% of all the visitors to the region.


----------



## jæd (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Or be allowed to be pissed off when a useful service which you've used many times is withdrawn?



Its not being withdrawn, just scaled back.


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Or be allowed to be pissed off when a useful service which you've used many times is withdrawn?




i've never said you shouldn't be pissed off, in fact i've sympathised with you several times, i've just challenged your assertion that it makes you '3rd class citizens'.


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> lol - so we're back to the 'If you don't like it don't live there' argument. I was born here.



Well yeah, basically, and where you were born doesn't matter a toss. Cornwall is never going to be very well served in terms of infrastructure given where it is and its economic importance.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> i've never said you shouldn't be pissed off, in fact i've sympathised with you several times, i've just challenged your assertion that it makes you '3rd class citizens'.



On it's own it doesn't but added to other factors it certainly contributes to how I feel as a resident of Cornwall.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I've posted you a little statistic. Maybe your little blokey in the pub was the .2%?.


What the fuck are you on about?

You claimed that "Tourists don't use public transport" - that's provable bullshit - and then you went on to claim that I said that "people don't actually drive here at all" which was more provable bullshit - I've never made any such claims.

So are you going to apologise for lying?


----------



## kea (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> On it's own it doesn't but added to other factors it certainly contributes to how I feel as a resident of Cornwall.




what other factors? sincerely. i'm not a resident of cornwall and never have been so my metropolitan arrogance is actually just lack of knowledge. please tell me more! house prices for starters, right? i've done some work on that aspect.


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## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

jæd said:
			
		

> Its not being withdrawn, just scaled back.


The morning service is being withdrawn. It's the only one I've ever used. I don't find the night-time one useful. Therefore, the service which was useful to _me_ is  being withdrawn


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> On it's own it doesn't but added to other factors it certainly contributes to how I feel as a resident of Cornwall.


You're hardly an advert for the place with your self-declared hatred for tourists bringing much-needed money into the area, putting cash in the pockets of locals and ensuring the survival of services.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> What the fuck are you on about?
> 
> You claimed that "Tourists don't use public transport" - that's provable bullshit - and then you went on to claim that I said that "people don't actually drive here at all" which was more provable bullshit - I've never made any such claims.
> 
> So are you going to apologise for lying?


Oh dear Ed, this is silly. I thought you said you were older than me? 

I apologise for lying 

How very dare I


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> We use public transport when we come to Cornwall as neither of us drive. We manage _reasonably_ well, but there are some places that are very inaccessible by train or bus (I'm thinking of the Lizard).


Get yourself a folding bike!

I've always used public transport all around Cornwall and got by OK.

Mind you, I've never caught an internal UK flight in my life, so maybe I'm one of these "third class citizens" that madzone's banging on about.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> You're hardly an advert for the place with your self-declared hatred for tourists bringing much-needed money into the area, putting cash in the pockets of locals and ensuring the survival of services.


Tourists don't ensure the survival of services. How did you work that out? They cost the local taxpayers money. And I'm sure the region would cope without a million pasty shops. Hell, if everybody fucked off we might even get some of our houses back so that nurses, teachers and other service providers could afford to buy a home.


----------



## jæd (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> The morning service is being withdrawn. It's the only one I've ever used. I don't find the night-time one useful. Therefore, the service which was useful to _me_ is  being withdrawn



So... Use the night time service instead...? Since you don't make day trips to London then this won't affect you because you must have made multiday trips instead.




			
				Some Stats said:
			
		

> 2.9% by air and other modes



So the airplane is hardly used by tourists. Perhaps thats another reason Ryan are scaling it back.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

jæd said:
			
		

> So... Use the night time service instead...? Since you don't make day trips to London then this won't affect you because you must have made multiday trips instead.
> 
> 
> 
> So the airplane is hardly used by tourists. Perhaps thats another reason Ryan are scaling it back.



Oh jaed read the thread


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Tourists don't ensure the survival of services. How did you work that out? They cost the local taxpayers money.


Christ, you're clueless.



> The seasonal influx of visitors has a far reaching effect upon the County’s character and life during the summer. *It enables many services to be provided which would not otherwise be viable* but the pressure of numbers creates problems such as traffic congestion, pressure on services and environmental damage.
> 
> In 1998, the last occasion when a comprehensive economic impact of the tourism sector was made, it was estimated that visitors spent some £953 million, of which about one third is retained in Cornwall. *The industry accounts for at least 30000 jobs* - with many more at the peak of the season. The average visitor to Cornwall spends £118 on accommodation and £100 on other expenditure
> http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/business/economy/corn9.htm


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Christ, you're clueless.


 Have you actually read that or are you just on a cut and paste spree form cornwall.gov? What services are they actually talking about because they then go on to say that the presence of visitors creates pressure on services.

Even if (and I don't concede this fact in the slightest) Cornwall couldn't survive without tourism that still doesn't mean I have to like the fuckers or even tolerate them.


----------



## jæd (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Oh jaed read the thread



Most of it seems to be your whinging about a service being cut back that you feel is your right to have. Here's some news for you: *It isn't* If you want easy access to airports, shops, and friends living in large cities then live in a large city... 

Not the hardest line of logical thought.

Oh, but we established in the homepathy thread that you don't have any truck with logic.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Have you actually read that or are you just on a cut and paste spree form cornwall.gov?


I had no problem reading that bits that tore apart your stupid claims - you know like your claim that tourism doesn't  ensure the survival of services - from cornwall.gov.uk: *(tourism) ...enables many services to be provided which would not otherwise be viable.*


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I had no problem reading that bits that tore apart your stupid claims - you know like your claim that tourism doesn't  ensure the survival of services - from cornwall.gov.uk: (tourism) ...enables many services to be provided which would not otherwise be viable.


What services though? They could mean anythng? They certainly don't ensure the services such as hospitals and water, they create enormous strain on those. Then there's the roads and the damage they do to them. So which services are they talking about? They couldmean Flambards for all we know. Fuck, Cornwall without Flambards doesn't bear thinking about does it?


Here's a A-Z list of services, I wonder which ones rely on tourism.
Because as far as I'm aware local services are paid for by our council tax and holiday makers don't pay that here.

http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/a-z/a-z.htm


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> What services though? They could mean anythng? They certainly don't ensure the services such as hospitals and water, they create enormous strain on those.


I'm getting bored pointing out the woeful gaps in your local knowledge:



> The Impact of Tourism on Health Care in Cornwall
> Introducing the report, Mrs Cox said that tourism *was one of Cornwall’s most valuable industries* which had done much to *improve the county’s economy* and also *helped maintain the viability of some community based services *such as the *Minor Injury Units and Community Hospitals*.
> 
> http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/Newsdesk/ns4-2004/ns04-466.htm


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I'm getting bored pointing out the woeful gaps in your local knowledge:


lol - the minor injuries units - fucking wonderful. We pay for them and they're kept open for the tourists. Fucking class. 



> However she added that the influx of visitors, which almost quadrupled the county’s population at peak times, exerted increasing pressures on staff, services and the resident population.




Why did you leave that bit out?


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Why did you leave that bit out?


How's that relevant to your emphatic (and, again, woefully incorrect) claim that tourists *"certainly don't ensure the services such as hospitals..."*

How many more daft, unresearched claims do you intend to post up today?


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> How's that relevant to your emphatic (and, again, woefully incorrect) claim that tourists *"certainly don't ensure the services such as hospitals..."*
> 
> How many more daft, unresearched claims do you intend to post up today?


It's relevant because it admits that they create a strain on local resources. 
They don't ensure the services such as hospitals.Our main hospital is stacked. In summer you could die waiting to be seen _because_ of tourism. There's a tenuous link by CCC about how they may contribute to the minor injures and community hospitals but it doesn't say how. They create as much if not more strain on our public services, it says as much in the document (however tickly they are about it) You won't get CCC saying anything negative about tourism because they're very fucking twitchy about it.

BTW - are you going to tell me how old you are?


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> lol - the minor injuries units - fucking wonderful. We pay for them and they're kept open for the tourists. Fucking class.



Your vehement anti-tourist stance is coming across as a pretty nasty bit of xenophobia and also very hypocritical for someone who started the thread cos they were pissed off they couldn't go and be *a tourist * themselves.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Your vehement anti-tourist stance is coming across as a pretty nasty bit of xenophobia and also very hypocritical for someone who started the thread cos they were pissed off they couldn't go and be *a tourist * themselves.


I'm self admittedly xenophobic 

I'm a very responsible tourist though. I realise that when I go somewhere that it's actually someone's home and not some 100 mile long fucking theme park which I know more about than the residents themselves. I don't expect people to stop going about their daily business just because I'm there and I don't expect the face of the place to be changed permanently because I want a particular type of coffee bar.

I would also listen to the advice of local service providers such as lifeguards and not let my kids go 200 ft off shore in a  inflatable fucking dinghy thus necessitating the launch of the lifeboat and all the costs that ensues.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> BTW - are you going to tell me how old you are?


Frankly, that's none of your business.

And seeing as you choose to continually ignore all the official information that contradicts your opinion, there's not much point pursuing this discussion.


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I'm self admittedly xenophobic



You tar all tourists with the same brush and then tell us how you're different when you're a tourist. What a scummy attitude.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Frankly, that's none of your business.
> 
> And seeing as you choose to continually ignore all the official information that contradicts your opinion, there's not much point pursuing this discussion.





> The sheer scale of activity places a strain on local
> resources and services, such as health facilities, water supplies and the road network. Tourism
> can also bring pressure for intrusive and inappropriate development, including accommodation
> and visitor attractions, which has important implications for such a fragile environment as
> Penwith.



From my district council

You've ignored all my counter arguments about how tourism places a strain on Cornwall. Why would that be? And you're age is entirely relevant because you said you'd been coming to Cornwall since before I was born. Which is fine if true, however if not then you've been lying and I feel it only fair that you profer your apologies for lying the same way you asked me to  Judging by your pic I'd say you were about 38. I'm 40. Hmmmmm


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> You tar all tourists with the same brush and then tell us how you're different when you're a tourist. What a scummy attitude.


Of course I'm generalisng


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 1, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> madzone, it is a simple fact that you choose to live somewhere which is a certain distance from the capital city, both geographically and in terms of transport. there's no point in getting angry about the fact that the time-space continuum can't be altered in order to give you an easy way of visiting london for just one night. as the editor says, there's a perfectly good sleeper train. it's unfortunate that your lifestyle/home situation means you can't use that, but that's not the fault of anyone but yourself.




Are you joking? 'Chosen' to live somewhere??


What ???  I 'choose' to live in Leeds (not!!) we still have a decent connection to London regardless of my 'lifestyle' or distance from the capital.


----------



## djbombscare (Sep 1, 2005)

Walking in very carefully indeed as I can see that its er been kicking off a bit. . . 

Flybe have said that they are talking with Newquay to try and fill the void left by Ryanair.


As you were


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

djbombscare said:
			
		

> Walking in very carefully indeed as I can see that its er been kicking off a bit. . .
> 
> Flybe have said that they are talking with Newquay to try and fill the void left by Ryanair.
> 
> ...



Are flybe the cheap greek lot with the orange planes?


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Are flybe the cheap greek lot with the orange planes?



They're based at Exeter I believe, which is probably several degrees worse than being Greek in in the Madzone scale of fear and loathing


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> They're based at Exeter I believe, which is probably several degrees worse than being Greek in in the Madzone scale of fear and loathing


Grow up 

I hate emmets - nothing racist about it. In fact you tend to find that it's Northerners who are the worst.


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Grow up
> 
> I hate emmets - nothing racist about it. In fact you tend to find that it's Northerners who are the worst.



Hehe, I'm glad they really wind you up, cos you deserve it with your miserable xenophobic attitude.

(adds pointless smiley)


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> Hehe, I'm glad they really wind you up, cos you deserve it with your miserable xenophobic attitude.
> 
> (adds pointless smiley)


They don't wind me up, they provide me with endless amusement. In fact sometimes I drive through St Ives when I don't need to just to annoy them 
Ocassionally I'll even park up to watch them being attacked by seagulls.


----------



## Spion (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> They don't wind me up, they provide me with endless amusement. In fact sometimes I drive through St Ives when I don't need to just to annoy them
> Ocassionally I'll even park up to watch them being attacked by seagulls.



You're a nutter, love


----------



## djbombscare (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Are flybe the cheap greek lot with the orange planes?




Noooooo they used to be Jersey European and were based in Exeter then joined with I think its was British Midland or something like that.


----------



## madzone (Sep 1, 2005)

djbombscare said:
			
		

> Noooooo they used to be Jersey European and were based in Exeter then joined with I think its was British Midland or something like that.


I wonder if they'll be as cheap as ryanair so that us choughy chavs can fly again


----------



## djbombscare (Sep 1, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I wonder if they'll be as cheap as ryanair so that us choughy chavs can fly again



http://www1.flybe.com/


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 1, 2005)

Choughy chavs   That's dreadful. You're losing your touch


----------



## boskysquelch (Sep 2, 2005)

*smirk* _what  a breakfast *this* was!_


----------



## Hollis (Sep 2, 2005)

Tbh if I was Cornish I'd tell the editor to get stuffed.. See him cycling around on his 'folding bike'  - shoot the fucker.

End of.

Straight.

Safe.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 2, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> because it's one aspect. i do think that air travel when there is a viable alternative means of transport isn't justified. i wouldn't fly to paris for example, i wouldn't fly to edinburgh, glasgow, cornwall ... etc.
> yes OBVIOUSLY that then raises the question of where the boundary is, for example if you can change trains in paris to get where you're going, and that's a matter that people are going to have varying opinions on. but i DO think that unless someone has a good reason, travelling from newquay to london on the plane is just not necessary. it's a luxury, as i said above.



And going to Greece on holiday is a necessity and not a luxury?     Please never bring up the environmnet in an argument again *ever*, as it is quite obvious you do not give a fuck about it.



  

End of.


Straight.


Safe.


----------



## boskysquelch (Sep 2, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Tbh if I was Cornish I'd tell the editor to get stuffed.. See him cycling around on his 'folding bike'  - shoot the fucker.
> 
> End of.
> 
> ...



I was goona see if I could get Objectifff Wun Funn_*ding*! to get one of those puta system that can isolate Emmet_Brixtonians like how that girl was saved from drownin' the other day>>>Linkeeeeeeeeeeee and put it somewhere spssshll on the Bissoe Trail...I reckon he'll stop long enough to take a snap and I'll get a clear shot fromm the furze with me catapult and take his dynamo powered engine out...innit!?


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

Ground Elder said:
			
		

> That's dreadful. You're losing your touch


C'mon then Camborne boy - come up with summat better


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Tbh if I was Cornish I'd tell the editor to get stuffed.. See him cycling around on his 'folding bike'  - shoot the fucker.
> 
> End of.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Tbh if I was Cornish I'd tell the editor to get stuffed.. See him cycling around on his 'folding bike'  - shoot the fucker.


What an utter fucking twat you are at times, Hollis.

Really.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 2, 2005)

Ditto you and your finger pointing moralising.

xx


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Ditto you and your finger pointing moralising.


Have you actually got a grown up argument to offer about tourism, public transport and the environmental  pollution caused by air flights in Cornwall or are you only capable of posting up moronic "shoot the fucker" comments?


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Have you actually got a grown up argument to offer about tourism, public transport and the environmental  pollution caused by air flights in Cornwall or are you only capable of posting up moronic "shoot the fucker" comments?


I think he has a fair point. How would you feel if I was banging on about how things are/should be in Brixton based on a couple of visist a year?


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I think he has a fair point. How would you feel if I was banging on about how things are/should be in Brixton based on a couple of visist a year?


If I was posting up inaccurate crap or making a big noise with unreasonable demands, then I'd deserve to be challenged and I'd have no problem arguing the toss.

But you've managed to stamp your personality on this thread appearing to be selfish, self-centred, not particularly bothered about the environment and full of hatred for any tourist who dares visit your precious area (although you expect full, immediate and cheap transport to be provided for your occasional tourist trips elsewhere).

Have I got that right?

Oh, and since when was "shoot the fucker" a "fair point"?


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> If I was posting up inaccurate crap or making a big noise with unreasonable demands, then I'd deserve to be challenged and I'd have no problem arguing the toss.
> 
> But you've managed to stamp your personality on this thread appearing to be selfish, self-centred, not particularly bothered about the environment and full of hatred for any tourist who dares visit your precious area (although you expect full, immediate and cheap transport to be provided for your occasional tourist trips elsewhere).
> 
> ...



If that's how you choose to percieve my arguments I can do nothing about it. You've posted links to CCC websites which state precisely fuck all and have conveniently managed to side step discussing the counter arguments which have been posted, also from official sources . And you haven't apologised for lying about your age despite demading that I apologise to you. You've equally managed to  stamp your personality on the thread as someone who thinks they know more about where someone lives than  they do, and someone who is always right , even when they're not.

I never said that 'shooting someone' was a fair point. However, the sentiment behind it _is_.


----------



## pogofish (Sep 2, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> are low-cost short-haul flights a 'service'? i don't think so. if you think they're a community service presumably you'd approve of ryanair being given public subsidy to keep them going, in the same way that the rail network receives public subsidy because of its community benefits?



Ever been to the Outer Hebridies?  Affordable regular flights play a big part in the public transport infrastructure there.  Or should the islanders stick with the resident "Bhata" (boatman) beloved of highland lore?


----------



## 1927 (Sep 2, 2005)

djbombscare said:
			
		

> Flybe have said that they are talking with Newquay to try and fill the void left by Ryanair.



I hope they dont even consider publishing a timetable before consulting Madzone to ensure that their once a year travel plans can be accomodated on the service!!

What effect does Madzone think that a total boycott of Cornwall by tourists will do for local services in Cornwall? No surfers,family holidays,stag weekends etc., will  surely entail pubs restaurants and other businesses failing in record numbers,which will mean no business rates and no employment. But atleast there wont be any tourists eh!


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> If that's how you choose to percieve my arguments I can do nothing about it.


I was only quoting your own words:



			
				madzone said:
			
		

> I've never hidden my hatred of tourists.
> And I've NEVER said my concern was anything BUT selfish.


You were wrong about your claim that tourists don't use trains, you were wrong to claim that people only used the St Ives line for a "scenic" ride, you were wrong to assume that Cornwall was the only county without an airport, you were wrong to claim that tourists didn't contribute to the retention of local services and - amazingly - it turned out that for all your claims of being treated like a "third class citizen", your area is in fact served by a host of buses, coaches and a host of airlines.

In fact, your area is far better connected than many, many other comparable areas.






			
				madzone said:
			
		

> And you haven't apologised for lying about your age despite demading that I apologise to you.


I haven't "lied" about my age you fucking idiot. I just chose not to broadcast it here for your benefit.

PM someone like MrsM if you're that interested and then work on the text of your apology.


----------



## kea (Sep 2, 2005)

pogofish said:
			
		

> Ever been to the Outer Hebridies?  Affordable regular flights play a big part in the public transport infrastructure there.  Or should the islanders stick with the resident "Bhata" (boatman) beloved of highland lore?




did you miss the bit where i explicitly said that i can understand why planes are a public service for people on outlying islands? or did you just choose to ignore it so you could enjoy chipping in your 2c-worth?

edit: isn't tourism the biggest employer in cornwall? (or 2nd after agriculture) in which case, the pressure tourists put on local facilities is balanced by the fact that without it, the local economy would collapse.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

pogofish said:
			
		

> Ever been to the Outer Hebridies?  Affordable regular flights play a big part in the public transport infrastructure there.  Or should the islanders stick with the resident "Bhata" (boatman) beloved of highland lore?


I think you're missing the bit about practical alternatives being available.

With no rail line, motorway or coach/bus service, flights (and boats) are clearly the only practical means of getting to the Outer Hebridies.

That's hardly the case for the well connected Newquay, is it?

But there again, I wouldn't have too much sympathy for an Outer Hebridian  complaining loudly that there wasn't a service on hand that would whisk them off to London for a tourist day out.


----------



## pogofish (Sep 2, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> did you miss the bit where i explicitly said that i can understand why planes are a public service for people on outlying islands? or did you just choose to ignore it so you could enjoy chipping in your 2c-worth?



Caught-up to that bit now


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

1927 said:
			
		

> I hope they dont even consider publishing a timetable before consulting Madzone to ensure that their once a year travel plans can be accomodated on the service!!
> 
> What effect does Madzone think that a total boycott of Cornwall by tourists will do for local services in Cornwall? No surfers,family holidays,stag weekends etc., will  surely entail pubs restaurants and other businesses failing in record numbers,which will mean no business rates and no employment. But atleast there wont be any tourists eh!



What makes you think Cornwall couldn't be self sufficient without tourism?


----------



## pogofish (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> But there again, I wouldn't have too much sympathy for an Outer Hebridian  complaining loudly that there wasn't a service on hand that would whisk them off to London for a tourist day out.



Careful!

Fairly recently anyway, it *was* easier & quicker to get to London form some islands than to travel between them.  Getting an elderly relative home form Stornoway in less than two full days & an overnight stop in Glasgow was next to impessible - her surgery ruled out the usual method of sitting on a pile of creels in a small fishing boat.  the new causeways, bridges & air services have improved matters somewhat but there are still some places that are a bugger to get to, even with a plane.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I was only quoting your own words:
> 
> You were wrong about your claim that tourists don't use trains, you were wrong to claim that people only used the St Ives line for a "scenic" ride, you were wrong to assume that Cornwall was the only county without an airport, you were wrong to claim that tourists didn't contribute to the retention of local services and - amazingly - it turned out that for all your claims of being treated like a "third class citizen", your area is in fact served by a host of buses, coaches and a host of airlines.
> 
> ...



Over 86% of tourists reach Cornwall by car. Less than 5% come by train. If you choose to demand absolute precision from every comment that anyone makes then yes, you're right, I was wrong that 'tourists' don't use public transport' Howeve, any person with common sense can see that I meant that the vast majority of tourists come to Cornwall by car. The official statstics more than back it up.

And, because you demand absolute precision from your users I am merely asking for the same courtesy. You stated that you'd been coming to Cornwall 'since before I was born'. As I was born in 1965 I'd like verification of whether your statement is true or not. If it isn't then I would like an apology from you for lying. It is nothing more or less than you constantly demand from other users. You don't even have to state your age.

How was I wrong to state that St Ives - St Erth is scenic railway in all but name?


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I think you're missing the bit about practical alternatives being available.
> 
> With no rail line, motorway or coach/bus service, flights (and boats) are clearly the only practical means of getting to the Outer Hebridies.
> 
> ...



I don't live in Newquay


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> As I was born in 1965 I'd like verification of whether your statement is true or not. If it isn't then I would like an apology from you for lying. It is nothing more or less than you constantly demand from other users. You don't even have to state your age.


I've already told you what to do.

Seeing as I've no intention of posting up my birth certificate for your benefit, PM MrsM or eme - they both know my age -  and then work on the text of a big, fat public apology. I don't like people calling me a liar, you see.

But here's some clues for you:
http://www.urban75.org/photos/reading/
http://www.urban75.org/music/ticket.html

Go on. Do the maths. And then be rightly embarrassed.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> What makes you think Cornwall couldn't be self sufficient without tourism?




What would be the key industries that would replace tourist income then? I'm struggling to come up with plausible alternatives.

It's the double-standards that annoy me with your posts on this thread. On one hand you want to seemingly cut Cornwall off, discouraging tourists and trade from outsiders, the other and you're asking for a subsidised travel route to use to escape Cornwall quickly - no doubts subsidised even more heavily without the tourist income to the route. It just doesn't add up.

And stay out of London. We don't need hypocritical yokels like you down here, littering our streets and increasing congestion. It's bad enough we get all the Northern bastards coming here taking our jobs and increasing property values for us cockneys....


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I've already told you what to do.
> 
> Seeing as I've no intention of posting up my birth certificate for your benefit, PM MrsM or eme - they both know my age -  and then work on the text of a big, fat public apology. I don't like people calling me a liar, you see.
> 
> ...



I don't want your birth certificate - such a  drama queen   - none of that proves anything. Did you go on the train on your own when you were under a year old? You said you've been coming here since before I was born you see.


----------



## pogofish (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Only because it's a military airbase. We don't have a custom built air terminal. Are there any other counties where the only aiprort has come about through MoD allowing it to be used?



Yes, Stornoway airport is in the same position, an RAF base with a civil portakabin bodged-on.  Except that the RAF are now all-but pulled-out & have only used the base for excercises in the last few years.  IIRC, some deal involving EU funding/Holyrood subsidy is being negotiated.  the only other sizable airport was also constructed by the RAF to support missile testing in the 50's & 60's & of the individual island airstrips, many were constructed by the islanders themselves with no public money whatsoever & only the vaguest promise of an actual service.   Barra still lands their planes on the beach


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> What would be the key industries that would replace tourist income then? I'm struggling to come up with plausible alternatives.
> 
> It's the double-standards that annoy me with your posts on this thread. On one hand you want to seemingly cut Cornwall off, discouraging tourists and trade from outsiders, the other and you're asking for a subsidised travel route to use to escape Cornwall quickly - no doubts subsidised even more heavily without the tourist income to the route. It just doesn't add up.
> 
> And stay out of London. We don't need hypocritical yokels like you down here, littering our streets and increasing congestion. It's bad enough we get all the Northern bastards coming here taking our jobs and increasing property values for us cockneys....




You're mixing up the way this thread was derailed by the editor. I am pissed off that ryanair are pulling a service that was useful for me. The other stuff has been a separate issue.

Tourism doesn't subsidise that service, the majority of tourists come to Cornwall by car. The air service is used more by business people and locals.

On the surface tourism looks like it keeps cornwall afloat but there are loads of hidden costs to locals. Over 60% of tourists to cornwall stay in self catering accommodation. I'll look for statistics but I have a feeling that most of it will be poroperty which is owned out of county. We have whole villages 'shutting down' because there's no-one living there in the Winter. Our water rates are among the highest in the Country and our council tax has gone sky high with the damage done to roads by the influx of tourists being subsidised by us. We have some of the highest parking charges in the Country, property prices second only to London, we have local fishermen losing access to net lofts because they're being sold as bijou apartments ,the list is fucking endless, yet we have some of the lowest incomes in the UK. All this because where we live is pretty. So excuse me if I can't stand the fucking knowitall wankers who come down a couple of times a year and think they know more about Cornwall's basic infrastructure than we do and fuck it all anyway as long as they can have a cosy self catering apartment.

We need to invest in small buisiness that can sell their services and goods out of county, then maybe we could stop prostituting our countryside to all and sundry. Cornwall has always attracted tourists but it's become unbalanced.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I don't want your birth certificate - such a  drama queen   - none of that proves anything.


Are you going to apologise for accusing me of lying yet?


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

This bloke sums up pretty much what I think


From here

*ETA apparently it's a .doc file?


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> This bloke sums up pretty much what I think


PLEASE  post up a warning to posters if you're going to directly link to a .doc file. 

Now your apology for wrongly calling me a liar,  please.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> PLEASE  post up a warning to posters if you're going to directly link to a .doc file.
> 
> Now your apology for wrongly calling me a liar,  please.


Why do you have to post up a warning?


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Why do you have to post up a warning?


Because:

(a) some people will be unable to view .doc files
(b) some people don't like/want Word unexpectedly opening from a link
(c) there could be a virus in the doc file
(d) it's a courtesy to warn people that you are not linking to a HTML file

Now your apology for wrongly calling me a liar, please.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Because:
> 
> (a) some people will be unable to view .doc files
> (b) some people don't like/want Word unexpectedly opening from a link
> ...




I didn't realise that. Is it in any of the guidelines?

BTW - you haven't proved your'e not lying yet.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I didn't realise that. Is it in any of the guidelines?


No. It's common sense, I would have thought.

Apology please.
(edited to respond to edited part)



			
				madzone said:
			
		

> BTW - you haven't proved your'e not lying yet.


I've told you how to check the facts and I've even supplied you photographic evidence which proves my age.

Apologise now or fuck off, I've had enough of your cheap slurs.


----------



## Spion (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> This bloke sums up pretty much what I think
> 
> 
> From here



At a skim read, he highlights some undesirable features of the Cornish economy (tho there's a strong whiff of the xenophobic particularism of which we've seen a lot on this thread). But, there's a complete failure to present an alternative. It's no good whinging if you're not putting up an alternative vision and campaigning for it.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> No. It's common sense, I would have thought.
> 
> Apology please.



That's a bit of an assumption to make isn't it? Not everyone works with computers.

Like I said, you haven't addressed the claim. Stalemate I fear. Still, I expect I'll be banned anyway for disgreeing with the infallible Ed


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

Spion said:
			
		

> At a skim read, he highlights some undesirable features of the Cornish economy (tho there's a strong whiff of the xenophobic particularism of which we've seen a lot on this thread). But, there's a complete failure to present an alternative. It's no good whinging if you're not putting up an alternative vision and campaigning for it.



I personally don't work in any tourist related area. I worked in the voluntary sector until I got ill and am now planning to run a small business from home when I'm better. I'm not in a position to ofer viable alternatives for anyone but mysef. However, I thought ICT, food production and investing in the agricultural sector were mentioned in that doc


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Like I said, you haven't addressed the claim. Stalemate I fear. Still, I expect I'll be banned anyway for disgreeing with the infallible Ed


No, but you'll certainly be banned for posting up unfounded allegations that I'm a liar, which you refuse to support with facts.

The picture from the Reading Festival was taken in 1975. Do I look younger than 10 years old there?

I've told you that I'm not prepared to post up my age for your benefit, but I have told you how you can easily verify how old I am - something you refuse to do.

I suggest you apologise because it's not on to accuse people of lying with zero evidence to support that accusation.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> No, but you'll certainly be banned for posting up unfounded allegations that I'm a liar, which you refuse to support with facts.
> 
> The picture from the Reading Festival was taken in 1975. Do I look younger than 10 years old there?
> 
> ...


You claimed you'd been coming to Cornwall since before I was born. You haven't said anything that proves/disproves it.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Tourism doesn't subsidise that service, the majority of tourists come to Cornwall by car. The air service is used more by business people and locals.
> .




I think you're being a bit naive here, although I'd love to see the some figures to support your assertion. My boss has flown to Cornwall more than a couple of times this year, on business as you suggest. However the business is totally linked to the tourist trade in his case - both supporting the surf and accommodation markets. He's also brought a hosts of others down on that Newquay airport services - photographers, his wife, children etc. I suspect much is true of much of the other business trade.

He also met his most recent business contacts on holiday in Cornwall. Local Cornish boys working on tourist houses...

As for the rest of your anti-outsiders rant, it's the same elsewhere in much of the country. You just have to look at some of the gentrification 'debates' on the Brixton and Welsh forums, for example, to see that it's far from just working people in Cornwall who are being priced out of their neighbourhoods and denied an effective living wage.  The same factors about stressed infrastructure, tourists, second homes, half-year occupancy, obscene property values and workers pushed out all apply to London and elsewhere as well.  So you'll have to excuse my seeming distaste for 'knowitall wankers' who think that they're in a some kind of special situation, despite only leaving their own area a few times a year.

What industries are going to replace tourism btw? Cornwall ain't ever going to be a self sufficient rural,  fishing and mining idyll again. Small cottage industries selling stuff out of the region is never going to generate anywhere near the level or income - besides selling Cornish 'crafts' elswhere is only likely to increase the tourist appeal.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> You claimed you'd been coming to Cornwall since before I was born. You haven't said anything that proves/disproves it.


I'll tell you what. £100 quid says that I can prove that I was going to Cornwall since before you were born. 

I've got a photo of me with my Dad on St Ives beach in 1962 that proves it beyond doubt.

Care to put your money where your big mouth is?


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> I think you're being a bit naive here, although I'd love to see the some figures to support your assertion. My boss has flown to Cornwall more than a couple of times this year, on business as you suggest. However the business is totally linked to the tourist trade in his case - both supporting the surf and accommodation markets. He's also brought a hosts of others down on that Newquay airport services - photographers, his wife, children etc. I suspect much is true of much of the other business trade.
> 
> He also met his most recent business contacts on holiday in Cornwall. Local Cornish boys working on tourist houses...
> 
> ...



A) I never said my anti-outsiders stuff was reasonable. 

B) Tourism is changing the face of Cornwall to the extent that people won't want to visit the area anyway.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I'll tell you what. £100 quid says that I can prove that I was going to Cornwall since before you were born.
> 
> I've got a photo of me with my Dad on St Ives beach in 1962 that proves it beyond doubt.
> 
> Care to put your money where your big mouth is?



Actually my mouth is quite small. Always been the bane of my singing life that


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> B) Tourism is changing the face of Cornwall to the extent that people won't want to visit the area anyway.


So what's your pragmatic alternatives?


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Actually my mouth is quite small. Always been the bane of my sinigng life that


Don't wriggle. Either meet my bet or apologise.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> So what's your pragmatic alternatives?


Have a look at the Cornwall Conference link I posted. There's some viable alternatives from people who know what they're talking about on there.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Don't wriggle. Either meet my bet or apologise.


I'm morally against betting. How would I know that the picture really was 1962? Are you really _that_ old?


----------



## pogofish (Sep 2, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> IWhat industries are going to replace tourism btw? Cornwall ain't ever going to be a self sufficient rural,  fishing and mining idyll again.



Don't know about the Cornish position but in parts of Scotland, tourism often only serves to hold-back the development of other industries and very often, any benifit from that tourism goes straight out of the area anyway, with few tangibles, other than a some low-paid seasonal jobs.  Have a look at the objections to almost development, most often they are from absentee landowners who don't have a finger in the pie & holiday occupiers who don't want to see their two weeks of "beauty" spoiled.

Community buy-out laws & local investment palns might help matters eventually but these are only very recent innovations.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I'm morally against betting. How would I know that the picture really was 1962? Are you really _that_ old?


<content removed>

Perhaps that fucking answers your disgusting slurs that I'm a liar.


----------



## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> <content removed>
> 
> Perhaps that fucking answers your disgusting slurs that I'm a liar.



I'm sorry to hear that.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> I'm sorry to hear that.


Then *fucking apologise *for your slurs that I'm a liar. Now.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> A) I never said my anti-outsiders stuff was reasonable.
> 
> B) Tourism is changing the face of Cornwall to the extent that people won't want to visit the area anyway.




To play your game:

a) I'd say that you're deliberately being unreasonable to provoke a reaction on this thread. 
b) Can't you say the same of many other areas - substitute any number of place names for Cornwall or even 'gentrification' for 'tourism' and you can carry on endlessly. Besides, doesn't this bode well for the future as far as you're concerned  - a balance will be struck eventually.

I can understand your frustration at losing a convenient service. But you surely must understand why some folks are taking some offence when you're  arguing from what's essentially an unreasonable, self-interested and hypocritical position.


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## Stobart Stopper (Sep 2, 2005)

Just say sorry, it's not that hard to do. Ed isn't a liar, that's one thing he isn't.


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## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> To play your game:
> 
> a) I'd say that you're deliberately being unreasonable to provoke a reaction on this thread.



That's pushing it a bit but I have been over egging it. I don't really go into town to watch Northerners be attacked by seagulls




			
				tarranau said:
			
		

> b) Can't you say the same of many other areas - substitute any number of place names for Cornwall or even 'gentrification' for 'tourism' and you can carry on endlessly. Besides, doesn't this bode well for the future as far as you're concerned  - a balance will be struck eventually.



Yes of course you can name other ares it's happening to but not neccessarily on the scale it's happening to Cornwall. And by the time a balance is struck (if ever) it may be to late and the Cornwalls uniquenes may be lost.




			
				tarranau said:
			
		

> I can understand your frustration at losing a convenient service. But you surely must understand why some folks are taking some offence when you're  arguing from what's essentially an unreasonable, self-interested and hypocritical position.



Of course I can but it was Urbans po faced, moralists at their best. It's difficult not to bite.


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## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> Just say sorry, it's not that hard to do. Ed isn't a liar, that's one thing he isn't.


He needs to calm down. It's not that important.


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## tarannau (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> Yes of course you can name other ares it's happening to but not neccessarily on the scale it's happening to Cornwall. And by the time a balance is struck (if ever) it may be to late and the Cornwalls uniquenes may be lost.
> .




From Brixton through to the Welsh valleys, I suspect that people will disagree with you. Many people feel just as strongly about their own unique backyard.

Pogofish - I take on board what you're saying - tourism and the associated hopitality industries tend not to be the most equitable of emplyers. However, I don't believe the local crafts based industries that Madzone seems to be suggesting in their place are a viable alternative either. Too often they end up as boutique goods,  sold to an urban clientele (mark ups mainly to existing poncey shops) and further reinforcing tourist views of 'quaint' or 'traditional' Cornwall, exacerbating the problem. It's hardly a Silicon Glen style solution bringing employment and long term growth prospects to the area.


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## jæd (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> He needs to calm down. It's not that important.



A bit like the news of the reduction in service at Newquay airport, but you've spun it out...


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## editor (Sep 2, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> He needs to calm down. It's not that important.


If your next post on these boards isn't an apology for your disgraceful slur, you're on a week ban.


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## madzone (Sep 2, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> If your next post on these boards isn't an apology for your disgraceful slur, you're on a week ban.






I'm sorry I upset you


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## rowan (Sep 6, 2005)

kea said:
			
		

> but you have passenger flights. and the mod are leaving in 2007 so then it will be fully passenger no?



From what I can gather, when the MOD leave in 2007 the commercial airport will then have to pay for the services such as fire cover etc that the MOD currently provide.

As it stands at the moment, the money generated by commercial flights isn't enough to pay for the running of the airport once the MOD go, so the Council need to charge a £5 tax on people using the airport to help keep the airport open.

Ryanair have refused to charge their customers the £5 and have reduced the number of flights out of spite.  Presumably Ryanair think the Cornish ratepayers should pay for the airport instead of the aiport users.

I don't use planes because of teh environmental issues, and I'm not happy at having to pay subsidies for any airport. And I see no reason why the passengers shouldn't pay the extra £5 themselves.


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## rowan (Sep 6, 2005)

madzone said:
			
		

> On the surface tourism looks like it keeps cornwall afloat but there are loads of hidden costs to locals. ....... Our water rates are among the highest in the Country



For example, I pay far higher water rates now in my 1-bedroom mobile home than I did when living in a large 3-bed semi in Kent.

It's so high because we have to pay to keep the beaches clean for the benefit of tourists who have to pay nothing towards them. From memory, the statistics are that we have 30% of the UK bathing beaches, paid for by just 3% of the UK population (who are most probably on a much lower than average wage anyway).

AND I can't even use most of the beaches for half the year because they don't allow dogs during the holiday season!


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## rowan (Sep 6, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> What industries are going to replace tourism btw? Cornwall ain't ever going to be a self sufficient rural,  fishing and mining idyll again. Small cottage industries selling stuff out of the region is never going to generate anywhere near the level or income - besides selling Cornish 'crafts' elswhere is only likely to increase the tourist appeal.




Cornwall isn't just a quaint holiday/fishing/craft area, people LIVE here as well. We have industrial areas, business parks, technology parks, as well as all the usual support services every other area of the UK has to support it's local population.     

Ok (I could be wrong here, I don't know all of Cornwall well yet), but I don't know of many major companies here  - but that's probably because of the poor transport links.


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