# The 2012-2013 Rugby Union Thread



## Red Faction (Sep 2, 2012)

Slightly belatedly,

In the warm up fixtures to this season Scotland & London Irish centre Joe Ansbro suffered a broken neck. The rugby community wishes him well, and hope he will return to the game.

In the English Premiership:

Bath hope to banish memories of their disappointing season last year. Boosted by a new coaching set up they aim to finish above 8th this time around.

Exeter had a fantastic season last year, finishing 5th in only their second season in the league, and reaching the quarter finals of the European Challenge Cup. Their reward this season is a place in the Heineken Cup. 
The task facing the Chiefs is to overcome titans of domestic and international club rugby, facing Northampton, Saracens, ‘Quins, Leicester, Leinster and Clermont before the end of October.
Can they impress in Europe without undermining their league campaign?

Gloucester have welcomed a new coaching set up, after the controversial move of Bryan Redpath to Sale. Nigel Davies has brought in very talented players and Scotland lock Jim Hamilton has been named club captain, to replace outgoing Luke Narroway. Their European Cup participation means Cherry and White fans will be visiting exotic European locations such as France, and Reading…

‘Quins celebrated their finest season in professional rugby last season. Conor O’Shea’s men find themselves in one of the easier Heineken Cup groups this season as they aim to retain their premiership title and progress beyond the European quarter finals for the first time in their history.

Leicester Tigers will continue to cheat their way through the domestic fixture list. Hopefully Toulouse and the Ospreys will make their Heineken cup season totally forgettable.

London Irish performed impressively in the pre-season. Although they have lost many key players during the summer, they have also brought in some experienced international talent. Without the distraction of Heineken Cup rugby pressure will be on the Exiles to finish well this season.

London Wasps were very lucky to remain in the premiership last season. After this summer’s mass exodus of players, financial clouds still hanging over the club and with Dai Young at the helm many pundits will be asking is their season over before it has even begun? 

London Welsh celebrate promotion to the premiership with a visit from 9 time championship winners Leicester Tigers. After a fantastic championship campaign Lyn Jones will hope to continue their run of form. The return of Gavin Henson to professional rugby will also be keenly watched.

Northampton fans felt let down by last season’s performance. Despite the loss of Chris Ashton they have a strong squad of players. The club face a potentially tricky Heineken Cup pool, but anything less than the quarter finals and a top 4 league finish will be viewed with disappointment.

Sale Sharks were boosted by the arrival of Bryan Redpath and Danny Cipriani during the close-season. This plus the move to the Salford City Reds stadium has left a growing feeling of optimism around the club. They have a large, experienced squad of players and faced with an interesting Heineken Cup pool, they will hope for a real push this season.

Saracens finished 3rd last season. They look forward to a new stadium in February, and have secured some excellent players over the summer. Their Heineken Cup pool includes Munster, Metro and Edinburgh. Fans of this club, London South Africans will be optimistic for domestic and European success this season. 
Worcester have built on last season, expanding their coaching and playing staff. Richard Hill will face a stern challenge if the club aim for a top half finish this season.

In the Rabo12

Glasgow and Edinburgh are hyped to have big seasons, on the back of Scottish Rugby’s four year strategic plan. However apart from a blip last season when Edinburgh reached the Heineken Cup semi-final, both teams have shown little promise since their creation. Even moderate success would be a big surprise.
In Ireland Leinster have strengthened their squad, and their dominance of the Heineken Cup and the league are likely to continue.
Munster are still a team undergoing transition, having lost a coaching set-up, front row, second row and back row during the summer. In addition, they have lost their scrum half, and most of the backs. Nevertheless, their often deluded fans will still claim that “This is our year”, and will actually be shocked when they lose any game, and will claim failure to reach the knockout stages of the Heineken Cup are “a fix”, and “a Leinster conspiracy”.

Ulster, last season’s Heineken Cup finalists are buoyed by the return of local hero Tommy Bowe. They have performed well in pre-season friendlies, but have a tough Heineken Cup group this time around. 

Connacht are featuring in the Heineken Cup again this season thanks to Leinster’s success last year. Eric Elwood’s men have lost a number of talented players over the summer, but have also surprised, picking up Dan Parks from Cardiff. A top half finish in the league, in addition to a few home wins in the European group stages would be considered a good season overall.
Italian team Zebra, a new, unknown entitity is widely tipped to spend the season propping up the league. 

Benneton Treviso have strengthened their squad, recruiting a number of international players from the demise of Aironi.
A synopsis of the Welsh teams will be covered by Bendeus in a subsequent post…


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## Red Faction (Sep 2, 2012)

Some epic matches took place on Saturday.

In the London double header, a 10 try thriller unravelled as a 'Quins late effort saw them pip Wasps 40-42.
Saracens thumped London Irish 40-3, while Exeter thrashed Sale 43-6 in remarkable circumstances.
Olly Barkley kicked Bath to a 24-23 victory against Worcester.

In the Rabo
A giant killing took place in west Wales, as the Scarlets put 7 (SEVEN!!) tries past current European champions Leinster.
Munster got 4  hard earned points against Heineken Cup rivals Edinburgh, while Cardiff did as expected against Connacht.
Treviso earned a surprising win against the Ospreys, while Newport stuffed Zebre.

The table  has Zebre, Glasgow and Leinster rooted to the bottom with 0 points between them.  

If only these trends could continue...


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## starfish (Sep 2, 2012)

Heres hoping for a speedy & full recovery for Ansboro.

My club, GHA, are off to a good start in the Scots Prem 2. 2 wins from 2.


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## The Boy (Sep 2, 2012)

Ever since Eurosport stopped broadcasting the Top14 i've been somewhat out of the loop.  Looks like it will be the usual suspects this year though.  Biarritz and Toulon currently top with ASM, Toulouse and Racing close behind.  Also Montpellier and Castres who may be able to get in the mix.

Mont de Marsan have no points after three games so probably heading straight back down to Pro2.


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## trampie (Sep 3, 2012)

Do they have a stewarts enquiry in English rugby ?, Harlequins coming from 40-13 down with just over 20 minutes to go and score 4 tries and 29 unanswered points to win 40-42....hmm


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## Red Faction (Sep 3, 2012)

Interesting performance by London Welsh.

They were always going to be big underdogs, but still pulled 2 tries out against a team with a very mean defensive record.

Bear in mind some team (Worcester) averaged less than a try a game last season.

There are a lot of positives many LW fans will take from that display...


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## bendeus (Sep 4, 2012)

Well, RF, you made up for the tardiness of your anointed responsibility with what is in my mind the finest and most detailed Rygbi thread starter in the history of U75 Rygbi threads. Awesome stuff.

My synopsis of welsh teams will, no doubt, be enhanced by Chemster, '27 et al, but this is my take:

The Mighty Os: as a team they have proven that they are capable of mixing it hard with the very, very best. One defeat against the Irish provinces last season, including the SF and QF of the Rabo (and yes, it does get competitive at that end of the season) demonstrates the talent inherent in that squad. They continue to boast one of the most competitive packs in European Rygbi (even minus Paul James) and have some decent youngsters coming through. Expect Hanno 'Taffy' Dirksen to continue to impress and for Tipuric to demonstrate the type of form that has him as, in my opinion, the second best 7 playing in the British isles at the moment. Bevington continues to impress as a mobile loosie who can scrummage to the required standard, and provided Ian Evs keeps his head you have two potential Lions in the second row. We are decent at halfback if Dan the Man continues to kick on in the same way as he did last season and in Beck seem to have uncovered one of those Hensonesque 12s, who seem to have far to much time on the ball and a ridiculous ability to break the line and offload at will. Still weak at 13, and clearly missing the incomparable Ickle, but I expect them to continue to develop under Tandy, especially with less of a call at critical moments from Team Wales? Expect them to be in the mix again for Rabo glory, and quite possibly for progression beyond the QFs in the HEC if they click. Building and maintaining momentwm is critical for the fragile 'Spreys, but we know what this young side is capable of if all the components come together. 

The baby eating Turks: like the Os, they can boast one of the most destructive units in Ewrop, but this time their back division, and under the tutelage of Yorkshire Irishman, Simon 'Taffy' Easterby - one of their own- they could be playing to their strengths and with a lot of coherence this season. Williams and Davies are a very dangerous centre pairing outside a fit and uninjured Priest and (hopefully) a more seasoned and wily Knoyle and Davies at 9. Then, of course, there's Gogzilla, who appears to remain totally unplayable, especially coming in off the line one out from 10. He is the most exciting back the British Isles has produced in this emerging generation, and is a nailed on Lion. Also watch out for Liam Davies, who appears to be turning into a very decent 15. What's interesting about the Turks is happening up front. They suffered from an almost Spinal Tapesque exploding drummer season up front, which saw Rhys Thomas almost die of a heart attack and Iestyn Thomas retire with a neck injury alongside the losses of Lou Reed to the Blues and Dom Day to Bath. Assiduous Recruitment of (hopefully) bastard hard SH locks Earl, Vallejos and Ball as well as TH Aadrianse from SA alongside very serious emerging front row talent coming through in Rhodri Jones, Samson 'whatbetternameforaprop?' Lee and Kirby Myhill could finally see the Turks having the grunt to provide good, clean ball to that glittering backline. 5th in the Rabo and no HEC qualification.

Blues: Whole lot of meh, really. The departure of soon to be three time British Lion, Gethin Jenkins and should have had more caps at British Lion, Martyn Williams would weaken any squad, and the loss of the Oompah Loompah at hooker is also an issue. Recruitment up front has been underwhelming though not desperate. Fact is, they're broke like all the other Welsh sides. Lou Reed should complement Bradley at lock, and some real talent is coming through in the likes of McCauley Cook. Xav is a big loss, but in new captain Andries  'Taffy' Pretorius, Paterson 'Taffy' Paterson and the incomparable Warburton you have some serious quality in that backrow. Tovey at 10, provided he kicks on, could make a big difference to a potentially stellar backline containing Lloyd Williams (who also needs to demonstrate progress this season), Jamie Roberts, Halfpenny ('nuff said), and Alex Cuthbert. Watch out for Ickle mkII, Harry Robinson, this season. He has a 1/2p Rygbi brain, pace to burn and one fuck of a sidestep. Outside chance as a bolter for the Lions. Phil Davies, who can at least claim to be a coach, has apparently been beasting them in pre season, and you can't rule out the return to the AP factors, but I think this season will be one of rebuilding and consolidation. 7th in the Rabo and no HEC qualification.

Dragons: meeeeeeeh, though some decent players coming through and two touring Lions in Toby and Dan in the backrow. Watch out for Jack Dixon, who could be quite something if he keeps progressing. Will be scrapping it out against Zebre and Connacht for bottom spot but maybe, just maybe, have turned a corner in terms of total crapness. Seem to have more balance at the least.

London Welsh: love to say this, but little knowledge of them or their recruitment. Seems that they've strengthened up front fort the battering they're going to get, and in Lyn Jones may have a coach who knows how to keep them alive in the AP. Henson at 10 is the biggest story here - looking forward to seeing what he can do providing he is given the platform. Exciting days for the Exiles.

Welsh rugby: watch this space. PWC report on the health of the game has been submitted. Expect central contracts and less control by/for the regions. Further expect Chemster to embarrassingly mess his drawers at this news. Me? I think the ongoing subsumation of club Rygbi into the arms of the WRU can only be a bad thing long term.

Trampie:  what's a 'Stewart's enquiry'? Is it an enquiry led by Fatty Barnes? If so, expect it to have a Saes bias.


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## bendeus (Sep 4, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Interesting performance by London Welsh.
> 
> They were always going to be big underdogs, but still pulled 2 tries out against a team with a very mean defensive record.
> 
> ...



Yeah. I think LW won't go down without a fight this year. Lyn's Rygbi by numbers may well suit the AP.


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## bendeus (Sep 4, 2012)

Come on, Mattie, you're back on the boards after a very impressive flounce. We all want you back!


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## gabi (Sep 5, 2012)

Graham Henry seems to have become Pumas coach by stealth. Pretty decent signing I'd say.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10831735


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## flypanam (Sep 5, 2012)

Good move by the Pumas alright. Jeez that Chris Rattue, is some whopping ass. Betraying the spirit of the AB's all henry is doing is testing himself against the best, whats wrong with that?

eta My hopes for Irish rugby are pretty low this season. I look forward to see what Penny brings to Munster and if Anscombe can take us a step further.

Kidney can do one.


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## gabi (Sep 5, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Good move by the Pumas alright. Jeez that Chris Rattue, is some whopping ass. Betraying the spirit of the AB's all henry is doing is testing himself against the best, whats wrong with that?
> 
> eta My hopes for Irish rugby are pretty low this season. I look forward to see what Penny brings to Munster and if Anscombe can take us a step further.
> 
> Kidney can do one.


 
I agree. The journo sounds like a right cock. I hope the kiwi rugby public are smart enough not to think like that. I reckon coaching Argentina would be an excellent (and promising) challenge.


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## The Boy (Sep 5, 2012)

No doubt a slightly frustrating one though, if the French clubs continue to play sill buggers about releasing players...


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## bendeus (Sep 5, 2012)

gabi said:


> I agree. The journo sounds like a right cock. I hope the kiwi rugby public are smart enough not to think like that. I reckon coaching Argentina would be an excellent (and promising) challenge.


 
Rattue is the same journo who was kind enough to call Wales 'the village idiots of world rugby' alongside a number of other cyclopean and parochial articles that betray the nastier side of AB rugby dominance. He's a prize prick.


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## bendeus (Sep 5, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Good move by the Pumas alright. Jeez that Chris Rattue, is some whopping ass. Betraying the spirit of the AB's all henry is doing is testing himself against the best, whats wrong with that?
> 
> eta My hopes for Irish rugby are pretty low this season. I look forward to see what Penny brings to Munster and if Anscombe can take us a step further.
> 
> Kidney can do one.


 
You'll do well in the Rabo and HEC again, and will have a large representation for the Lions tour. Can't see any trees being pulled up at international level, though. I have a suspicion that this may be England's year, especially given the continued disarray of the French and the fact that we are now effectively being coached by Stan Laurel while Gatland swans around being Lions coach.


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## The Boy (Sep 5, 2012)

French in disarray?  Nothing compared to the new jersey...


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## flypanam (Sep 5, 2012)

bendeus said:


> You'll do well in the Rabo and HEC again, and will have a large representation for the Lions tour. Can't see any trees being pulled up at international level, though. I have a suspicion that this may be England's year, especially given the continued disarray of the French and the fact that we are now effectively being coached by Stan Laurel while Gatland swans around being Lions coach.


 
I suspect if my win bonus was £100k+ i'd swan around too...

Yeah your right, about us anyway as for England, you well be right but I suspect there will be a little second season syndrome with them. I don't think anyone will do the GS this season.


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## trampie (Sep 6, 2012)

A European competition should have the best entrants from different countries not from different leagues or not based purely on merit. 

Europe has been dominated in recent seasons by the Irish with the French having some success, the French and English don't like getting beaten all the time by Irish teams so they are demanding changes to the competition the Irish teams play in, its not their business how the Celts and the Italians run their league, the English are talking about entry into Europe based on merit, the laugh is the English league is far weaker than the French league and weaker than the top of the Rabo league, so on merit very few if any English teams would be in Europe.


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## bendeus (Sep 7, 2012)

trampie said:


> A European competition should have the best entrants from different countries not from different leagues or not based purely on merit.
> 
> Europe has been dominated in recent seasons by the Irish with the French having some success, the French and English don't like getting beaten all the time by Irish teams so they are demanding changes to the competition the Irish teams play in, its not their business how the Celts and the Italians run their league, the English are talking about entry into Europe based on merit, the laugh is the English league is far weaker than the French league and weaker than the top of the Rabo league, so on merit very few if any English teams would be in Europe.


 
None of this matters. What matters is who has the TV audiences that the sponsors so crave. Saes and Frogs have the whip hand when it comes to any negotiations wrt the HEC, and I fully expect them to carry the day one way or another.


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## flypanam (Sep 12, 2012)

BT Vision (wtf is that?) has got the rights to the APL (£152m for what is the shittest domestic game imo.) Looks like the English teams will get their way in Europe after all as BT will bet the rights to English HEC games.

“This is a game-changing agreement and will deliver a service that I know our club supporters will enjoy,” Premiership Rugby chief executive Mark McCafferty said. “We are delighted to have concluded our discussions with such an ambitious partner that will help bring the Premiership to new audiences.”

CUNT!


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## trampie (Sep 12, 2012)

English capitalism doesn't know where to stop does it, if they don't get their way with the ERC England and France will breakaway from the rest of Europe then they will try their nonsense with the world game, when and where internationals and world cups will be played etc, could the end game be England and France being kicked out of the world game ?


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## flypanam (Sep 13, 2012)

trampie said:


> English capitalism doesn't know where to stop does it


 
Capitalism is capitalism don't matter from where it's from, it's global. It's destined to trample over everything, distort and corrupt 'The sacred becomes the profane...all that is solid melts into air...etc'

Good to see the ERC saying that this violates the regulations. Looking forward to the Anglo/French league while the rest off us move on to a World League when the best of the Celts play the best of SH.*

*Not gonna happen but I'd love it if the Rabo teams proposed it.


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## bendeus (Sep 13, 2012)

trampie said:


> English capitalism doesn't know where to stop does it, if they don't get their way with the ERC England and France will breakaway from the rest of Europe then they will try their nonsense with the world game, when and where internationals and world cups will be played etc, could the end game be England and France being kicked out of the world game ?


 
More like the world game being kicked out be Eng and Fra. We are their bitches.


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## The Boy (Sep 13, 2012)

Seems my lack of properly following rugby is beginning to tell.  Only just seen this stuff about a new Euro comp.  What sort of format are they talking about, etc?


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## bendeus (Sep 13, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Seems my lack of properly following rugby is beginning to tell. Only just seen this stuff about a new Euro comp. What sort of format are they talking about, etc?


 
The Saes and Froggies want to remove the national quotas from the Rabo as well as two HEC places, I think, so we'd go from 2 Italian, 2 Scot, 3 Welsh and 3 Irish qualifiers to the top eight (or maybe even six(?)) regardless of nationality. All this breakaway bullshit is just that; jostling for a favourable negotiating position in order to drive home their overwhelming economic and commercial advantage. They'll be telling the Celtic nations how to organise our national sides in order to be less competitive next.


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## The Boy (Sep 13, 2012)

One thing I've never understood about the Rabo:  must be dull as fuck playing a team that you will probs be facing up against in the HEC, no?  Or rather it must take away from the glamour of at least one of the competitions.

French league isn't as safe as that money wise though - I would call their bluff.


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2012)

The Boy said:


> One thing I've never understood about the Rabo:  must be dull as fuck playing a team that you will probs be facing up against in the HEC, no?  Or rather it must take away from the glamour of at least one of the competitions.
> 
> French league isn't as safe as that money wise though - I would call their bluff.



The Rabo has no glamour up until the playoffs. It is a joke league set up to ensure that players are available and fit for international games. The fact that teams can use the same tactics to preserve strength for the HEC is, in the case of Ireland at least, a happy coincidence. That doesn't take away from the cold fact, however, that we can organise our fucking league exactly how we  want to without interference from rival national groupings. If they're so worried about how terribly unfair the HEC is then maybe they should model their leagues on ours rather than trying to force us to give up the admittedly flawed structure of our club game.


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## flypanam (Sep 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> They'll be telling the Celtic nations how to organise our national sides in order to be less competitive next.


 
McCafferty has already been banging on to the Irish media about the unfair advantage our players have because of central contracts. This on two levels shows how fucking thick he is. 1. They mashed us last year. 2.The Irish just love been told what to do by some English Toff.


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2012)

flypanam said:


> McCafferty has already been banging on to the Irish media about the unfair advantage our players have because of central contracts. This on two levels shows how fucking thick he is. 1. They mashed us last year. 2.The Irish just love been told what to do by some English Toff.


 
Self-awareness, or indeed humility, doesn't appear to be a resource in much abundance in the PRL. I really fear that their selfishness is a threat to the world game. SH nations are already feeling it. Celtic nations, too. Unlike us Taffies the IRFU have managed to keep elite players at home to date, but what if France and England are able to negotiate even bigger money from the HEC on top of the significant sums available from their domestic leagues? And what then if they're able to offer even stupider money to the world's best? Would the likes of POC see the benefit in three or so years earning a fucking packet in the south of France in the late afternoons or evenings of their careers? They're like a black hole that will eventually suck in all talent from the periphery; essentially strip mining the domestic game and fundamentally undermining national sides. Then there'll just be an England vs. France round robin every year, while our players head overseas from our fatally weakened domestic setups to bolster the likes of the Tigers.

We have genuine cause for concern. Look at Welsh football if you think it couldn't happen.


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## Teaboy (Sep 14, 2012)

This new tv deal the english premier league has signed all seems a bit of a mess as it seems Sky have extened their deal to exclusive rights to the HC.  I don't blame the premier league for trying to get more money for their domestic game as collectively it does make a big loss each year, but they do seem to have gone about it in a strange and even underhand way, and as for the TV rights over a different tournment what is all that about?  I can see this all ending up in court.

None of this makes any difference to me though, as a Richmond fan the Heinken cup is but a mere dream and I doubt we'll see any of BT's money either.


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## The Boy (Sep 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> That doesn't take away from the cold fact, however, that we can organise our fucking league exactly how we want to without interference from rival national groupings. If they're so worried about how terribly unfair the HEC is then maybe they should model their leagues on ours rather than trying to force us to give up the admittedly flawed structure of our club game.


 
Didn't suggest otherwise.  Was a separate point that I raised since we were in a thread talking about the HEC/Rabo.  Still think the Rabo clubs should call their bluff, an Anglo-French tourney has even less appeal than a Rabo+Anglo-French one.  And the French clubs, despite their massive budgets aren't all that secure.


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Didn't suggest otherwise. Was a separate point that I raised since we were in a thread talking about the HEC/Rabo. Still think the Rabo clubs should call their bluff, an Anglo-French tourney has even less appeal than a Rabo+Anglo-French one. And the French clubs, despite their massive budgets aren't all that secure.


 
Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that you did.

However, the ability of the Rabo to call any bluffs is very limited. The Irish provinces could probably survive a year or so without HEC competition due to the much higher gates they get for non HEC matches. Given the fact that all the Welsh sides are on the verge of bankruptcy, however, I don't think any of them could survive without HEC revenue. Same goes for the Jocks. They have us over a barrel.


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2012)

An apology:

To anyone who believed the incoherent bobbins I spouted in my earlier post on this thread regarding the once-Mighty Os. Instead of a promising group of up-and-coming players being moulded by a hungry and savvy coach into a first class outfit we instead find a shambolic melee of clueless idiots who have been found out as a result of the absence (long and short term) of Shane, Adam and Ryan, who clearly have been the only reason our results haven't been more embarrassing over the last half decade or so. If I have misled, papered over or deflected I can only apologise. We are shit, and this will be our longest season.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 14, 2012)

So PRL have sold the rights to a competition that doesn't exist yet?

I think it's an incredibly short sighted move by them.Are people really going to buy a BT box just to watch boring PL rugby?


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> So PRL have sold the rights to a competition that doesn't exist yet?
> 
> I think it's an incredibly short sighted move by them.Are people really going to buy a BT box just to watch boring PL rugby?



I'm surprised you think this. I'd say it was the opposite. And incidentally, ireland look to be the biggest losers of any new arrangement, IMO.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'm surprised you think this. I'd say it was the opposite. And incidentally, ireland look to be the biggest losers of any new arrangement, IMO.


 
Why do you think it's a good move by the PL?. Ireland have central contracts and I don't think our top three teams would struggle to qualify for the HEC. The losers are scotland and italy.


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## bendeus (Sep 14, 2012)

Because they'll use the weaker unions to drive through what they want. Because you're strong and financially healthy you represent the biggest obstacle. They'll make overtures to us, I reckon, and we're weak and malleable enough to go along with it. I suspect you'll end up isolated. I don't think this is a good thing, BTW.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 14, 2012)

I think it's a bad move in terms of getting people watching the Prem and the teams in it. 

For the European competition it's questionable whether they had those rights to sell off. http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/18589.php

ERC has also agreed a deal with sky until 2018  so they will have money to throw at teams for a while. http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/news/18588.php

I think the prem could end up with egg on their faces


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## flypanam (Sep 15, 2012)

I doubt they will sleater. BT have the cash and McCafferty has the desire, they'll fuck over anyone for a pound.


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## bendeus (Sep 15, 2012)

flypanam said:


> I doubt they will sleater. BT have the cash and McCafferty has the desire, they'll fuck over anyone for a pound.


 
This. It's going to be divide and rule. Ironically it may end up that one or two of the smaller countries end up better off as a result of it, or at least no worse off than they were already, due to their being chucked a bone by the PRL for their backing. I'm sure at some point recently McCafferty alluded to some kind of cross-border competition or league involving Welsh teams. This is why I feel that Ireland may end up isolated. After all, it is your success, not ours, that has precipitated the whole sorry mess in the first place.


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## flypanam (Sep 15, 2012)

bendeus said:


> This is why I feel that Ireland may end up isolated. After all, it is your success, not ours, that has precipitated the whole sorry mess in the first place.


 
Blaming us again, bendy? had to happen at some point i suppose 

Fuck I wish we all pipped up when High Wycombe and the tiggers were boring Europe to submission.


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## bolshiebhoy (Sep 15, 2012)

God this Sarries Tiggers game is a yawnathon. I hope nobody at Wembley is there for their 1st game of rugby. They'll never come back :-(

Nothing boring at LI on the other hand. 3 games and zero points, 123 pts shipped against us. At this rate the Exiles who go down won't be Welsh.


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## bendeus (Sep 15, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Blaming us again, bendy? had to happen at some point i suppose
> 
> Fuck I wish we all pipped up when High Wycombe and the tiggers were boring Europe to submission.



Heh. Your success is hard won and deserved. But the Saes don't like it. Not one bit.


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## flypanam (Sep 16, 2012)

Sad news Nevin Spence the ulster centre died yesterday in a farming accident along with his brother and father.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0916/1224324067625.html

RIP Nevin


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## bendeus (Sep 16, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Sad news Nevin Spence the ulster centre died yesterday in a farming accident along with his brother and father.
> 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/0916/1224324067625.html
> 
> RIP Nevin



RIP. Fucking awful news. What a way to go


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## flypanam (Sep 16, 2012)

Awful way to go. Got to feel for his Ma.Hope his sister pulls through.

To play on Friday afternoon for the Ravens against Munster A then go home to work on the farm. Shows the dedication that the young lads who play the game have.

Anyhow this is how I'll remember him...


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## Red Faction (Sep 19, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19628134


----------



## bendeus (Sep 19, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19628134



Arrogant? English clubs? They'll be accusing Jonny Jebus of being injury-prone next!


----------



## Red Faction (Sep 19, 2012)

England boycotted the HC before and caved.
The threat of England and France withdrawing is an empty one, they just want to use it as a barganing tool.
The fact is- the fans, the players and therefore ultimately the clubs want HC rugby.

This next step is very interesting.
What the EPL have done is ultimately illegal.
Regardless of whether they opt to withdaw or not, BT vision do not have rights to broadcast any HC games.  
That will still be with BSkyB.

It is stupid beyond words, "The RFU said we could..."
The RFU had no power to authorise that.  The rights are owned by the ERC.

 So here is the rub- we hold out for a year of negotiations.
From 2013 onwards- BT vision have the rights to broadcast all rugby played by EPL clubs.
However only BSkyB can broadcast European matches, so potentially English clubs will be unable to to play in any competitions other than their own domestic league.

Surely that would make French clubs more likely to compete.  Suddenly it's become much easier to win.  More places become available for French teams, more money trickles in.
England find themselves isolated and complain it's a giant conspiracy.

Just need the Welsh and Scots to hold tight.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 21, 2012)

trampie said:


> A European competition should have the best entrants from different countries not from different leagues or not based purely on merit.
> 
> Europe has been dominated in recent seasons by the Irish with the French having some success, the French and English don't like getting beaten all the time by Irish teams so they are demanding changes to the competition the Irish teams play in, its not their business how the Celts and the Italians run their league, the English are talking about entry into Europe based on merit, the laugh is the English league is far weaker than the French league and weaker than the top of the Rabo league, so on merit very few if any English teams would be in Europe.


 
*shakes finger* Banned from Gwlad again, Trampie? (or should I say, 'scamp')


----------



## bendeus (Sep 21, 2012)

ESPN's 'Most influential Lions of All Time' list published.



> *1. Ronan O'Gara - South Africa 2009*
> The undisputed king of the British & Irish Lions History Committee's list of all-time most influential Lions is Ronan O'Gara.
> Despite going on Lions tours in 2001, 2005 and 2009, O'Gara only gained two Lions' Test caps, both as replacements. It was in 2009 as a replacement in the crucial second Test against South Africa, that he became a legend. Coming on with 13 minutes of normal time remaining, O'Gara went on to have a series-turning impact.
> Chairman Jackson takes it from here: "Has there ever been a more important thirteen minutes in Lions' history? I think not. O'Gara's first tackle? Well he went in a bit iffy and whacked his head. His second act was to be a minor inconvenience for Jaque Fourie as he scored the try which put South Africa in the lead after 74 minutes. The Lions pulled it back to 25-25 but, wait, there was a twist.
> "O'Gara's next act was to secure the series by putting up an aimless up and under and then followed it up by taking the receiver, Fourie Du Preez, out in the air and giving a penalty to South Africa which sealed the match and gave them an unassailable two match lead in the series. That's three actions and ten points in just 13 minutes. What was extra special was they say great occasions bring out great moments, and O'Gara's penalty for taking the man out in the air was the only recorded instance of him following up a kick he made in his entire career. Extraordinary stuff! Now tell me, honestly, whoever else has ever had more influence on a Test series? This is why we've crowned O'Gara the most influential British & Irish Lion of all time."


 
http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/170062.html#



Of course, this may not be entirely serious


----------



## bendeus (Sep 23, 2012)

Just thought I'd pop in to mention the fact that the cockney Taffs have just recorded their second win, putting clear water between themselves and Sale and Plastic Paddies.  Lyn may just be a better coach than I'd given him credit for. Big win for the once-mighty Os vs the Turks, also. Ryan is lush, so is Tipuric and Biggar is vastly underrated. Talking to myself anyway, so hey ho.


----------



## trampie (Sep 24, 2012)

If you support an illustrious village team that happens to have a more glorious past than any first class team, posters do get very jealous.


----------



## Red Faction (Sep 26, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Big win for the once-mighty Os vs the Turks, also. Ryan is lush, so is Tipuric and Biggar is vastly underrated. Talking to myself anyway, so hey ho.


 
Saw the highlights of the match.
Two interesting calls.

The high tackle that prevented the first try being scored- surely should have been a penalty try?
Also- as it would have been a penalty try- surely would have triggered an automatic red?

Second call- grounding the ball from outside the field of play?
Surely if the player is out, then the ball is out too?- No? 

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19697872


----------



## bendeus (Sep 26, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Saw the highlights of the match.
> Two interesting calls.
> 
> The high tackle that prevented the first try being scored- surely should have been a penalty try?
> ...



Aye. Should have been a penalty try. Stowers was cited but not banned, mind. 

Strange decision for the Gogzilla grounding, too. I also thought that a foot out of play meant no try. However, the TMO and the pundits seemed to think that because his foot went out of play at a point when he wasn't in contact with the ball, and that he grounded the ball 'coming in' from an out of play position the try was legitimate. I dunno.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 26, 2012)

bolshiebhoy said:


> God this Sarries Tiggers game is a yawnathon. I hope nobody at Wembley is there for their 1st game of rugby. They'll never come back :-(
> 
> Nothing boring at LI on the other hand. 3 games and zero points, 123 pts shipped against us. At this rate the Exiles who go down won't be Welsh.



Care to revise that opinion, Bolshieboy? I reckon it's going to be Sale. They've just sacked their forwards coach and all.


----------



## flypanam (Sep 27, 2012)

I see that Monghan Top Boy Tommy Bowe is starting for us in Cardiff tomorrow night. Great to see him back...but it's gonna be an emotional night for the Ulster boys.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Just thought I'd pop in to mention the fact that the cockney Taffs have just recorded their second win, putting clear water between themselves and Sale and Plastic Paddies. Lyn may just be a better coach than I'd given him credit for. Big win for the once-mighty Os vs the Turks, also. Ryan is lush, so is Tipuric and Biggar is vastly underrated. Talking to myself anyway, so hey ho.


 
Living in Richmond I keep an eye out for the London Welsh scores, went to a few games when they played on the old deer park.  London Scottish are going a lot better this year as well, great game last weekend as well.

Anyway bendeus is this one of yours?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19757642

Could be good for the spectators, since Powell has faded the Welsh team are all a bit squeaky clean.  Get more thugs involved thats what I say.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 28, 2012)

flypanam" post: 11553838 said:
			
		

> I see that Monghan Top Boy Tommy Bowe is starting for us in Cardiff tomorrow night. Great to see him back...but it's gonna be an emotional night for the Ulster boys.



Tommy Slowe? He's so last year


----------



## bendeus (Sep 28, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Living in Richmond I keep an eye out for the London Welsh scores, went to a few games when they playe
> the old deer park.  London Scottish are going a lot better this year as well, great game last weekend as well.
> 
> Anyway bendeus is this one of yours?
> ...



Aye. Bishop is Os and Wales. Dull twat; if you're going to do something daft then golf buggies and swan dives off ferries is far, far better than common thuggery.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 28, 2012)

Ulcer looking very impressive. Slowe may not be the busted flush I'd made him out to be.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 28, 2012)

Cardiff Blues: embarrassment of Welsh rygbi. Welsh club rygbi: embarrassment of Welsh rygbi.


----------



## The Boy (Sep 28, 2012)

I see Mike Philips and Cedric Heymans have been suspended indefinitely by Bayonne.  Something to do with being out partying after yet another defeat.


----------



## flypanam (Sep 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Cardiff Blues: embarrassment of Welsh rygbi. Welsh club rygbi: embarrassment of Welsh rygbi.


 
Lets see big statement about the 'spays - Retracted.
Small statement about TB - Retracted
Cardiff dismissed - They'll win the HEC


----------



## bendeus (Sep 28, 2012)

Slowe had one good game. He'll find his proper level for the rest of the season, and no doubt. BTW, Os for the Rabo. You heard it here first.


----------



## bendeus (Sep 28, 2012)

[quote = Boy, post: 11558662, member: 6079"]I see Mike Philips and Cedric Heymans have been suspended indefinitely by Bayonne.  Something to do with being out partying after yet another defeat.[/quote]

Now THATS, what I meant when I talked about quality embarrassment.


----------



## Red Faction (Sep 29, 2012)

what the fuck is going on???

ospreys in a comprehensive victory over the (former) European champions
Treviso romping to another victory over Welsh opposition
Connacht in a 5 try humping over those Dublin wankers
LI & Sale in freefall

madness!!


----------



## bendeus (Sep 30, 2012)

Ahem. I think you'll find that:

Os victories over Muhnner are becoming tiresomely normal. More noteworthy was the sudden and very effective use of the maul from a Welsh side. Seeing the Corkonian cheetas undone by rolling mauls from the lineout was curiously satisfying. What do you think of Tipuric, BTW?

Treviso are a decent outfit and have already beaten the Os and drawn with the Ladyboys at home. Turks yet-to-play signings from SA in the tight five can't come soon enough. Until then they're vulnerable against powerful forward outfits, and they don't come more powerful than the Os (who have something close to the best pack in Europe, IMO) and Treviso.

Sale have been on a downward trajectory for some time now. Plastics are the big surprise here; going to be a long season.


----------



## Red Faction (Oct 1, 2012)

bendeus said:


> What do you think of Tipuric, BTW?


 
Once upon a time, Munster had a terrible problem with their back row.
They just had so much talent, they didn't know who to pick.
Jim Williams, or Anthony Foley?
Wallace, Leamy or Quinlan?

How spoilt for choice we were.

Think Warren Gatland will need some extra strength paracetamol for the headache Tipuric gives him.

Such a wealth of talent.

Warburton, Lydiate, Tipuric, Delve, Jones, Faletau.

Don't think I share your philosophy of having designated, role specific 6s, 7s and 8s.

The French had it right with Left, Middle and Right.
Ball carrying, bosh merchants.
Fearsome in the tackle, fearsome ball in hand, fearless on the deck.

Warren Gatland- Absolutely spoilt for choice.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Oct 1, 2012)

Delve is the forgotten man, I do feel for him, quality player. Hopefully Lydiate will be back before the 6 nations is over and maybe he can be on the plane for the Lions. 

Cardiff Blues are shocking, hopefully the likes of Warbs, 1/2 penny, Robinson and that guy with the jaw wont carry it over to the internationals.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 1, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Delve is the forgotten man, I do feel for him, quality player. Hopefully Lydiate will be back before the 6 nations is over and maybe he can be on the plane for the Lions.
> 
> Cardiff Blues are shocking, hopefully the likes of Warbs, 1/2 penny, Robinson and that guy with the jaw wont carry it over to the internationals.


I imagine most of them are taking French lessons.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 2, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Delve is the forgotten man, I do feel for him, quality player. Hopefully Lydiate will be back before the 6 nations is over and maybe he can be on the plane for the Lions.
> 
> Cardiff Blues are shocking, hopefully the likes of Warbs, 1/2 penny, Robinson and that guy with the jaw wont carry it over to the internationals.


 
Unlikely it's the weird thing about the present welsh team, they click quite beautifully as a team yet back at their clubs some just can't seem to reach the highs that they do in the red shirt...Makes me jealous I'd love to have a team of big game players in green shirts but what we seem to get in the rivalries of the provinces imported into the national set up.

As for Lydiate, I'd say he's a cert for at least a seat on the plane, and judging by his dedication in looking after his ankle at the WC there's no reason to believe he won't start.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 3, 2012)

Interesting options for Stan Laurel in this 6N. In the absence of Dan the Man the conservative choice would have Ryan at 6, Faletau at 8 and Warburton at 7. However, and given the fact that as captain Warburton is undroppable but has been the second best performing openside in Wales since his post WC injury, there is the rather wonderful option of moving him over to blindside, where his physique and tackling wouldn't look out of place, and bringing Tipuric in at openside, where his link play and Nugget-esque footballing brain alongside his brilliantly prescient breakdown work would complement Sam's beef and physicality. Faletau to start and have Ryan benching as a replacement option at 4, 6 and 8.

Astonishing to think that losing a player of Lydiate's quality could still leave plenty of options in the locker, but as RF says, we are truly blessed in the backrow. Agreed that he'll be on the plane if he is fit, though I wonder with the hard pitches of Oz Gatland may go for a more mobile, ball-carrying blindside as his starting choice. Remembering how SOB destroyed Aus in the WC, for example.

Pundits going for Sexton as the starting ten ATM. This is disturbing as I'm yet to see him delivering in any meaningful way at international level. I guess it's down to the dearth of decent fly halves in the British Isles ATM. That, for me, and halfback more generally, is the biggest weak point of any test selection at the present moment.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Oct 6, 2012)

Stop the press...LI 18-0 up against Saints at half time. Can't last surely?!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 6, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Wallace, Leamy or Quinlan?


All gone in a couple of years, same with the front row. Shame Leamy had to retire at 30.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Oct 6, 2012)

39-17 what a result over Saints even if they had one eye on europe


----------



## bendeus (Oct 6, 2012)

bolshiebhoy said:


> 39-17 what a result over Saints even if they had one eye on europe



Always nice to see those fucking thugs getting turned over


----------



## bendeus (Oct 6, 2012)

...meanwhile, another meek capitulation from the Blues. Saddens me to see one of the greatest and most historic clubs in the world in such a desperate plight.


----------



## Red Faction (Oct 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> All gone in a couple of years, same with the front row. Shame Leamy had to retire at 30.


That's the real headache now.

Yes we've brought in talented players from abroad, yes we have talented homegrown players coming through, but we need a truly solid front 3.
You reckon the current bunch could stand up to the Claws, the Raging Potatoes, the Bulls, of old?
Flannery, Sheehan, Horan- their days are over.

Even Paul O'Connell's days are numbered.  Perenially crocked.

Every time I look at the teamsheet I see new names, and hope that these youngsters can fill the big boots of the international rugby giants who have played for us in the past.

See we got beat by Leinster again?  The same Leinster who received a near whitewash against Connacht the week before...

I'm off to Paris on Friday for the Metro match.

Give me some solace before I go eh?


----------



## flypanam (Oct 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Give me some solace before I go eh?


 
Your not playing Ulster for a few months. That should help 

Your changing the way you play, your first try on Saturday was a good effort even Schmidt admitted as much. It's a bedding in period but you'll come good again.


----------



## gabi (Oct 8, 2012)

When do the SH-NH games start then?


----------



## flypanam (Oct 8, 2012)

November. Your All Blacks are playing Aus in HK on the 20th and a week or two after that is the first Autumn international.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> That's the real headache now.
> 
> Yes we've brought in talented players from abroad, yes we have talented homegrown players coming through, but we need a truly solid front 3.
> You reckon the current bunch could stand up to the Claws, the Raging Potatoes, the Bulls, of old?
> ...



Well, your threequarter line looks good: masses of creativity and guile. Some wag on a Welsh forum is referring to the new, expansive Muhnner as the 'Harlem Bogtrotters' . POC isn't finished yet, and in Donnacha Ryan and POM you have some real talent coming through. 

Your problems are that your backrow as a unit no longer has the dog or balance of yesteryear, and as such can no longer protect Onan. He's being targeted like never before, and it's costing you. And yes, your front 3 isn't really top level HEC standard. I still fully expect you to get out of your group, mind, but unlikely beyond the quarters.

Oh, and John Hayes: international rugby giant


----------



## bendeus (Oct 8, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Your not playing Ulster for a few months. That should help
> 
> Your changing the way you play, your first try on Saturday was a good effort even Schmidt admitted as much. It's a bedding in period but you'll come good again.



I agree with RF here. Munster's issues are as much about personnel as about a switch to a new gameplan. Forwards win games, as any fule kno, and I don't think Munster's are as scary as of old. The Os handed them their arses on a plate up front, just as they did last year.


----------



## Red Faction (Oct 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Oh, and John Hayes: international rugby giant


----------



## Red Faction (Oct 9, 2012)

On a serious note, despite the tag "rollerskates" you so kindly bestowed upon him,
He won ever single honour available at national and club level, bar the World Cup.
He was 1st choice tighthead for Ireland for over a decade.
(According to wikipedia) is the 14th most capped rugby player in the world
Twice capped for the Lions

give him his due 

we have no-one who comes close to matching that guy


----------



## bendeus (Oct 9, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> On a serious note, despite the tag "rollerskates" you so kindly bestowed upon him,
> He won ever single honour available at national and club level, bar the World Cup.
> He was 1st choice tighthead for Ireland for over a decade.
> (According to wikipedia) is the 14th most capped rugby player in the world
> ...



Hayes' strength was his lifting at the lineout, something that made the Munster setpiece so strong for so many years. He was too big to make an effective scrummager and thus compensated with every illegal trick in the book to hold up his side. That refs consistently refused to notice this says a lot about the officiating of both Munster and Ireland's scrum at the time.

Wasn't his ten year test career more down to a lack of quality competition rather than his own excellence? I struggle to think of any other 6N country, barring possibly Scotland, who he would have been first choice for in the same era.

As for the Lions, two words: Ugo. Monye.

E2A: but yeah, I'm being ungenerous. You can't argue with a GS and 2 HECs, I guess.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 11, 2012)

This should cheer you RF; The ginger second row is back and feels able to handle it and Racing await.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/1011/1224325174976.html

Good to see him back.

Is there gonna be a seperate HEC thread? (I ain't starting it Bendy)


----------



## bendeus (Oct 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> This should cheer you RF; The ginger second row is back and feels able to handle it and Racing await.
> 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/1011/1224325174976.html
> 
> ...



Got to now. It's de roolz


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 16, 2012)

Great to have the Heineken back, Munster played a lot better than I thought they would and can fell unlucky not to have won despite giving starts to six players. What are the thoughts on Keatly?


----------



## bendeus (Oct 17, 2012)

Looks a tidy player. 25 years old, though - quite old to be coming through (though Priestland was also a late bloomer so I guess you can't read that much into it)


----------



## flypanam (Oct 17, 2012)

Ian Keatley? A Leinster man in a Munster shirt, a fly half at full back, he's better than Hurley but not as good as Paul Warwick, I  doubt he'll add to his two caps. I like the look of Scott Deasy he seems to have the range of skills required for a full back but he's a bit limited in his dinner guest list...

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/6812.php


----------



## bendeus (Oct 17, 2012)

Actually, and while we're on the subject, what do people, and particularly Irish people, think of Biggar? Me, I think he's maturing into an absolutely top-drawer ten. He's added intelligent running with ball in hand to his decent distribution and inch perfect kicking from hand. His place kicking is, I would say, the best in the Rabo (recall his winning conversion against the Ladyboys in the playoff final as a case in point),  and even better than 1/2p's. Great defence, intelligent and ambitious. Way ahead of the Priest at present, but unfortunately another of the legion players that Stan Laurel loathes; and what Stan loathes don't get picked.

Be good to see him get a start in the AIs. He's every bit as good as the best the league has to offer, IMO.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Oct 18, 2012)

I've not seen him play this season but at the end of last season he was on fire. If he's still in that form he should be starting at 10 for Wales for the autumn internationals


----------



## flypanam (Oct 18, 2012)

Biggar is quality, he does not seem prone to the mistakes that The Rev or Sexton seem to make in a game. He's just seems to have a very cool head,  great decision making and all the attributes you describe. A good autumn and a good 6N and he'll start in Australia. Fuck knows the northern game seems to lack quality first fives at the moment.


----------



## gabi (Oct 18, 2012)

Not following the NH game much, I've never heard of Biggar - but I also don't think I've ever heard a better name for a rugby player. Brilliant. I hope he's as immense as his name suggests.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 18, 2012)

Surely not as good as upcoming Welsh prop, Samson Lee


----------



## bendeus (Oct 18, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Biggar is quality, he does not seem prone to the mistakes that The Rev or Sexton seem to make in a game. He's just seems to have a very cool head,  great decision making and all the attributes you describe. A good autumn and a good 6N and he'll start in Australia. Fuck knows the northern game seems to lack quality first fives at the moment.



Saes pinning a lot of their hopes on young Ford atm. Anyone had a good look at him?


----------



## bendeus (Oct 19, 2012)

Where's Chemster? 

www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Mike-Cuddy-appeals-help-Welsh-rugby-regions/story-17109273-detail/story.html


----------



## flypanam (Oct 19, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Saes pinning a lot of their hopes on young Ford atm. Anyone had a good look at him?


 
No. Who does he play for?


----------



## marty21 (Oct 19, 2012)

Noticed a new player made his debut for Bath last night - Skuse is his name - recognised the name - turned out I went to school with his dad, Matt Skuse, who played for Bristol in the 80s I think


----------



## bendeus (Oct 19, 2012)

flypanam said:


> No. Who does he play for?


Leicester. He's been world young player of the year, IIRC, and is the jizz-festooned totem of Cipsesque Saes excitement at present.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 19, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Leicester. He's been world young player of the year.


 
Does not quite compute. Leicester AND World young player of the year.

Still time to beat the talent out of him yet and make him into an unimaginative drone that Leicester like so much. Probably will be beat up and broken by 26.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 19, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Does not quite compute. Leicester AND World young player of the year.
> 
> Still time to beat the talent out of him yet and make him into an unimaginative drone that Leicester like so much. Probably will be beat up and broken by 26.


 
Here he is. Cockers has a problem on his hands with Ford pushing for the 10 spot and Flood the current incumbent (and perfectly suited to the way the Cheetahs play). Some rumours that he'll need to go elsewhere for his development. Questions around his defensive abilities, apparently.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

Adam Jones. Fucking legend!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/19/adam-jones-ospreys-leicester-heineken-cup


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

What is the Muster coach smoking?. Donnacha O'Callaghan on the wing - and passing (not very well mind you)


----------



## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

Great start for the O's againts Leicester. beating them would be oh so sweet, c'mon boys!


----------



## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

Awaits Bendy to give a summary of first half refereeing performance, slightly puzzled by some of his decisions!


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

1927 said:


> Awaits Bendy to give a summary of first half refereeing performance, slightly puzzled by some of his decisions!



Astonishing from Poite.

I have seen Cole pop up at least three times. Either ignored or Bevington pinged. One of these led to the try.
Towards the end of the half the scrum wheeled 180, let alone 90, on Cheetas put in. Ignored.

The lack of a platform is fucking killing us. We are the architects of 50% of this with our shit line outs, but Toite is murdering us for the other 50%. Can't win a game at Cheet Towers with a fucking 16th man dictating the pace, and he is that in spades.

Poite is a horrible ref when it comes to homerism and failure to adequately ref the scrum


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

....hopefully Duncan will have Cole's measure. He's been around a bit longer and knows all the dirty tricks in the book


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> ....hopefully Duncan will have Cole's measure. He's been around a bit longer and knows all the dirty tricks in the book



First scrum pen of the second half goes to the Os. Duncan is sorting it.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

Kitchener makes two offside runs in a row before the ball was kicked at the restart. Ignored.

Adam comes out of the line a moment later. Penalty.

Poite is a cunt.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

....Saes wankathon gathers ruddy-faced and sticky-fingered pace in the Sky commentary box. What Gatland should clearly do is pick all the Cheetahs' English players for the Lions.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

Bloody hell. Toite must've heard me. Starting to even things up.


----------



## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bloody hell. Toite must've heard me. Starting to even things up.


 
About time Tigers had a yellow card too methinks!


----------



## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Astonishing from Poite.
> 
> I have seen Cole pop up at least three times. Either ignored or Bevington pinged. One of these led to the try.
> Towards the end of the half the scrum wheeled 180, let alone 90, on Cheetas put in. Ignored.
> ...


 
I thought ut was just me being one-eyed hence wanating you to jump in. Agree 100%.


----------



## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

He's even penalising them for diving on now, why wasnt he doing that all game?


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

Ah, FFS!


----------



## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

Typical O's you can always rely on them to give away an interception to lose a tight game!


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

And then a soft try by spilling a high ball


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

1927 said:


> I thought ut was just me being one-eyed hence wanating you to jump in. Agree 100%.




Leicester are far from the force of old, aren't they?.


----------



## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Leicester are far from the force of old, aren't they?.



Yeah. There for the taking today. That peculiarly Welsh cocktail of our own ineptitude at critical moments, a laughable lineout and some bellend with a grandmother from the home city reffing it was our undoing.


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

I was impressed with Biggar today, is he ahead of Preistland now?


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## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I was impressed with Biggar today, is he ahead of Preistland now?



He should be, but Howley doesn't like him, and therefore he's not an option.

Did you enjoy the breathless spunking over Flood's performance today in comparison to the seeming dismissal of what Biggar brought to the table?

Clue: interception brainfart aside, Flood was the second best outside half on the pitch today.


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

bendeus said:


> He should be, but Howley doesn't like him, and therefore he's not an option.
> 
> Did you enjoy the breathless spunking over Flood's performance today in comparison to the seeming dismissal of what Biggar brought to the table?


No bendeus because that didn't happen. And tbf flood did make the difference for Leicester both in his long range penalties and the intercepted try which Biggar passed to him.


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## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

Watch the game again, then. Listen to the way they describe Floods kicking compared to Biggar's, who up to the point I turned off had missed none to Flood's one. Are you seriously telling me that there was equivalency in the language used?

And do you not think Biggar made a difference to the ways the Os played?


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## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> No bendeus because that didn't happen. And tbf flood did make the difference for Leicester both in his long range penalties and the intercepted try which Biggar passed to him.


 
were you watching the same commentary as me? I thought I could hear Barnes wanking everytime Flood lined up a kick!


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

I heard plenty of praise for Biggar, you're being paranoid.


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

1927 said:


> were you watching the same commentary as me? I thought I could hear Barnes wanking everytime Flood lined up a kick!


That's because he was knocking them over from his own half.


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## 1927 (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> That's because he was knocking them over from his own half.


 
with the wind behind and straight in front of the posts!


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## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> That's because he was knocking them over from his own half.



As was Biggar. Your point was?


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## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I heard plenty of praise for Biggar, you're being paranoid.



No, I'm not. Listen again to the language used. Cries of ecstasy followed by "he doesn't even look like he's TRYING!!!!!1!!!" compared to "he's doing a good job for his team", when, in essence, both players are executing the same thing effortlessly. Being a Munsterman you are obviously inured to Sky bias, what with your honest boys being their favourite non-Saes side.


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

I'm from Connaught!. That was a low blow.


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 21, 2012)

Flood scored more points than the Ospreys did, I think you're being a bit one-eyed


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## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I'm from Connaught!. That was a low blow.



Blimey! Do you know that in all the time we've both been posting on this thread I never realised that you were a fan of Connacht. Can't even remember you mentioning them.

"Connaught", btw?


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## bendeus (Oct 21, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Flood scored more points than the Ospreys did, I think you're being a bit one-eyed



Eleven of which were gift-wrapped.


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 22, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Blimey! Do you know that in all the time we've both been posting on this thread I never realised that you were a fan of Connacht. Can't even remember you mentioning them.
> 
> "Connaught", btw?


Spelling in my browser. Rugby not a big thing over there, so I tend to follow whichever province is winning.


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## torquemad (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh dear! All that hatred, all that vitriol. Of course Leicester were there for the taking. But clearly it needed a (much) better team than the Hairsprays. Sorry bendy, your boys had their ten minutes in the sun. And as for the "lucky" interception from Flood, did you hear his post-match interview? No, thought not. It was clearly a well-researched look at Hairspray tactics in the line. And it paid off.

You makes your luck.

Anything to say about the other three tries btw? Were they lucky as well or was it just that your defence wasn't up to the task? And as for Manu, every time he took the ball going forward at pace the Hairsprays tacklers were  bricking it. Cannot say as I blame them but the fact is they need to man up.

Oh, and while we are about it, your front row were blatantly failing to bind all afternoon. Poite missed it on at least six occasions which I saw. Trust me, he did not win universal admiration from the Welford Road faithful. We also saw him as clearly unable to ref the scrum. Yes, I thought Biggar played well. Unlucky for him he had so many donkeys around him.

Is it a fitness thing in your part of the principality in that tacklers are too knackered to roll away? Either that or you have been studying the Richie McCaw handbook. Poite should have carded at least three of your players. And what is it with the whingeing? Not just you. Your players were at it too. Marched back ten metres more than once because they were acting like petulant schoolboys.

To cap it all, the singing Hairsprays on the Terrace in front of me (well, they "sang" for ten minutes!) couldn't hold a note between them. Max Boyce, eat your heart out.



What I am pleased about is that the pool is now wide open again. And my bet on Tigers for automatic progression still leaves me confident I will be seeing Mr Ladbroke's open wallet.


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## torquemad (Oct 22, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Yeah.... and some bellend with a grandmother from the home city reffing it was our undoing.


 
This always makes me larf. To paraphrase, Barnes is a cunt (cf. his "breathless spunking" over Flood), Poite is a homester and, basically, everyone hates us, likely 'cos we are Welsh. Grow a pair, boyo.


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## bendeus (Oct 22, 2012)

torquemad said:


> Oh dear! All that hatred, all that vitriol. Of course Leicester were there for the taking. But clearly it needed a (much) better team than the Hairsprays. Sorry bendy, your boys had their ten minutes in the sun. And as for the "lucky" interception from Flood, did you hear his post-match interview? No, thought not. It was clearly a well-researched look at Hairspray tactics in the line. And it paid off.
> 
> You makes your luck.
> 
> ...



Hahahaa. Didn't realise our erstwhile Cheetah was still present on the boards 

Fair dos, since putting my second eye in yesterday evening, and having ruminated on events, I'd say on balance you probably have a point regarding the shennanigans at the scrum. I maintain, however, that at least two of the first half decisions were farcical from whatever point of view (barring that of a lawyer loving Tigger). First being the 180 degree scrum, and the second being the one leading to the first Cheetah try in which Cole popped up like a jack-in-a-box and flopped around above the parapet like an inadequate walrus with seemingly no sanction. He's obviously learning his tricks from Dylan Hartley, as this is his MO. As for us falling on the wrong side, you clearly failed to notice the fact that your boys spent most of the match off their feet and, frequently, living very successfully offside. Comme ci comme ca, I guess.

As for Toite, I'm not the only one who has experienced his, ahem, *unique* interpretation of the laws. Why, even the Harlem Bogtrotters have experienced his appalling reffing of the only scrummaging competition they have won since their inception. He's a shit ref.

Leicester were their usual low-risk, mistake-free selves. Nothing spectacular (including ManuSamoa, in spite of the sticky gusset you no doubt had to scrub afterwards) but typically efficient. Poor substitutions (Rhys fucking Webb) and typical Welsh brainfarts did for us at the end. But 'ten minutes in the sun'? What a fucking laugh. We were worse off for 25 minutes of the first with Toite's help, and had parity for most of the second. Tell me you weren't shitting yourself when we came back to 22-19 with ten minutes to go.

'Tobe's' reading of the poor set move wasn't the mark of genius. It was what you'd expect any elite player to do with so poorly executed and obviously telegraphed tactics. Fucking idiots, we are.

As for Fatty in the jizzbox; just for a second why don't you watch it again and just try to imagine what it sounds like if you're not English (or an Irishman who can't spell 'Connacht' properly) 

Anyway, all being said, don't forget that you're still our bitches on balance of the last few years, and that the away leg awaits at the house of emptiness


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## bendeus (Oct 22, 2012)

torquemad said:


> This always makes me larf. To paraphrase, Barnes is a cunt (cf. his "breathless spunking" over Flood), Poite is a homester and, basically, everyone hates us, likely 'cos we are Welsh. Grow a pair, boyo.



So, is Slow Jonny Slow going to be Lions 10 then, Torquemad, because the press are dreadfully keen, you know!


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## bendeus (Oct 23, 2012)

...on a very relevant but less partisan note, 'Mooro' holds forth on the abdication of responsibility of serial abdicators of responsibility, the IRB, regarding the scrum. It discusses their failure to adequately protect players, esp hookers, from serious on-pitch and residual injury from the running joke (sore?) that is the 'hit' and the inadequate provision of clothing onto which opposing props can bind (take note, Tomas). He's a bloody good journo, that one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...s-of-IRB-examination-of-the-modern-scrum.html


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## torquemad (Oct 23, 2012)

bendeus said:


> So, is Slow Jonny Slow going to be Lions 10 then, Torquemad, because the press are dreadfully keen, you know!


 
I see what you did there! I originally castigated you for your hissy-fit about Barnes - and, just so you know, Tubby gets more abuse than anyone else on his regal visits to WR - and you come back with a curveball regarding Goldenballs from the south of France. If Wilkinson is up to it he should be included. End of. Personally I don't think I would pick him at this point. But for you to insinuate that there is a conspiracy against Biggar is manifest bollox - or merely another expression of some vicarious form of "victimhood". As for Flood, apart from Sunday his form this season had convinced a lot of people in Leicester that he should not be the starting England ten, never mind the Lions. Personally speaking as an Irish expat in Leicester I would be delighted to see Flood in the England starting XV when he is playing such shite. Sadly, when he and Youngs play together the whole is usually greater than the sum of the parts. Your effete Hairspray coiffeurs on Sunday will have experienced that at first hand.

So now to Biggar, which I guess was the aim of your original post.  He is good. I acknowledged that already. He is playing well. But, then, so are others in his position, in England, in Ireland and in France. So lets just see how things pan out over the next few months shall we? In the meantime stop with the "all my Geese are Swans" myopia. Biggar is no more deserving nor entitled than anyone else, so sort out your own sticky gusset before you castigate anyone else. And in the spirit of your gratuitous racist name-calling ("Harlem Bogtrotters") perhaps, in your rose-tinted swooning over the boy Biggar, you haven't even noticed that he doesn't look remotely like a sheep. Still, with the cold winter nights drawing in .....

If you have an issue with Fatty Barnes don't whinge to me.  Write to Sky or do as we do at Leicester and let him know directly and in a very vocal manner what we think. But wait..... you don't get enough people at the House of Emptiness to make a noise. Pen and paper or third-party ranting it is, so, eh? 

As for the Moore article, once again I had previously referred to Poite's - and by extension the overwhelming majority of top refs - lack of competence at reffing the scrum. I have been boring anyone close enough to hear for the last two years that the scrummaging laws need to be revisited. For my money, we need to revert to the stationary engaging and setting of the scrum  before front rows are permitted to drive. Otherwise I do seriously fear that there will be major problems for some of today's hookers and props. I may not often like the style of his delivery nor the one-eyed content of his commentary. When it comes to scrums and scrummaging, however, Moore knows what he is talking about.


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## torquemad (Oct 23, 2012)

bendeus said:


> ...on a very relevant but less partisan note, 'Mooro' holds forth on the abdication of responsibility of serial abdicators of responsibility, the IRB, regarding the scrum. It discusses their failure to adequately protect players, esp hookers, from serious on-pitch and residual injury from the running joke (sore?) that is the 'hit' and the inadequate provision of clothing onto which opposing props can bind (take note, Tomas). He's a bloody good journo, that one.


 
Thanks, bendyboyo, for the link to the Torygraph article. I also picked this up from their match report. Another bloody good journo btw:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...cester-Tigers-39-Ospreys-22-match-report.html

"Leicester Tigers ..... put the RaboDirect champions to the sword"

"Ospreys were good but Tigers were much better"

"Tigers are right back in contention to qualify from this most competitive of pools"

"Prop Dan Cole inflicted much grief on opposite number Ryan Bevington"

"Manu Tuilagi went efficiently about his work and bagged two tries, the first of which was a corker"

"Geoff Parling went toe to toe with the Wales second row pairing of Alun Wyn Jones and Ian Evans"

Now, I know what you are thinking. Not one mention of your wet dream fancy-boy Biggar. Brendan Gallagher, the author of the piece, is clearly, therefore, an anti-Welsh, white-stick merchant who was given this game to cover because his usual beat of womens underwear coverage had nothing newsworthy this week. 

When you have finished writing to Barnes/ Sky, don't put that writing pad away. You may find the following helpful. The editor of the Welsh-hating, anti-Biggar Telegraph can be contacted at:- telegraphantiwalesclub.co.uk.

* This has been a public service announcement.*


ETA: T_hat anonymous tenner we Tigers supporters sent to Poite must have been split with Gallagher. Thanks to you both, lads. We could never have done it without you._


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## 1927 (Oct 23, 2012)

I particulalry like the bit in that Telegraph report where it says the 2002 team had a celebratory lunch in the week. that will be the team that cheated there way to a win.

Same old Leicester, always cheating.


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## 1927 (Oct 23, 2012)

Shit me. I have just reread that FULL Match report. The writer is a fucking magician, manages to write a report and not even mention Ryan Jones (try scorer) or Dan Biggar!

I think torquemad may just have shot himslef on the foot by quoting that report.


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## torquemad (Oct 23, 2012)

1927 said:


> Shit me. I have just reread that FULL Match report. The writer is a fucking magician, manages to write a report and not even mention Ryan Jones (try scorer) or Dan Biggar!
> 
> I think torquemad may just have shot himslef on the foot by quoting that report.


 
And why is that? If they had made a (winning) contribution then I am sure they would have got a mention. So, you are another one with Biggar's photo on the ceiling above your bed? I wouldn't like to be privy to yours and the bent one's PMs.

Anyway, as I said, it was a tenner well spent and I am pleased that M.Poite diverted a fiver Mr Gallagher's way.


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## 1927 (Oct 23, 2012)

torquemad said:


> And why is that? If they had made a (winning) contribution then I am sure they would have got a mention. So, you are another one with Biggar's photo on the ceiling above your bed? I wouldn't like to be privy to yours and the bent one's PMs.
> 
> Anyway, as I said, it was a tenner well spent and I am pleased that M.Poite diverted a fiver Mr Gallagher's way.


 
So you think its right that the point scorers dont get any mention and the only Os who get named are because they came off second best, hardly a FULL MATCH REPORT as stated.


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## torquemad (Oct 23, 2012)

1927 said:


> I particulalry like the bit in that Telegraph report where it says the 2002 team had a celebratory lunch in the week. that will be the team that cheated there way to a win.
> 
> Same old Leicester, always cheating.


 
Oh fuck. Here we go again with the old "Hand of Back" incident. The instinctive action which Stringer himself subsequently said he would have used 'appen it fell his way in a game.

I could spend an hour itemising the blatant cheating/ sharp practice employed by Welsh teams (or Irish, English, NZ, French for that matter). But why bother. Even casting my mind back over games involving the Welsh just makes me fall asleep. The one that IS worth mentioning, nonetheless, is your theft of the Grand Slam. Second ballfor quick throw-in. Remember that one?

Away and throw one off the wrist to the boy Biggar. And as for the team that cheated there(sic) way to a win in 2002, you're really just another bitter (underachieving) Blue, no?

Sorry, not under-achieving. Non-achieving.

ETA: At least Ospreys won the Rabo last season. And _Gleision Caerdydd_...... oh wait, they didn't.


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## torquemad (Oct 23, 2012)

1927 said:


> So you think its right that the point scorers dont get any mention and the only Os who get named are because they came off second best, hardly a FULL MATCH REPORT as stated.


 
Oh please, already!

Go and cry in someone else's beer. I am too happy re-reading the article to be diverted by your sad bleating  .... is that learned behaviour in the principality btw.

Where would you put it on the nature/ nurture continuum?


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## torquemad (Oct 23, 2012)

1927 said:


> So you think its right that the point scorers dont get any mention and the only Os who get named are because they came off second best, hardly a FULL MATCH REPORT as stated.


 
But wait! Isn't that the whole point???

The entire fucking Hairsprays team - starting XV/ bench/ staff/ hair-product support staff/ nail varnish ancillary workers/ water carriers to name but a few - came off "second best". Like it or not them's the facts of the matter. History will not remember the losers. 

Just sup it up with a long spoon.

Oh, and who stated it was a "FULL MATCH REPORT" ? Not me I think you'll find. Personally speaking, I don't much care for objectivity. Certainly not other peoples' objectivity. It's usually bollocks.


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## 1927 (Oct 23, 2012)

The telegraph headed it as a full match report.

Please keep posting as you do the whole pf rugby a service, by proving that even the most one-eyed Scarlet appears rational and fair in comparison.


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## torquemad (Oct 23, 2012)

1927 said:


> The telegraph headed it as a full match report.
> 
> Please keep posting as you do the whole pf rugby a service, by proving that even the most one-eyed Scarlet appears rational and fair in comparison.


 
Righto. Just so long as we know that the Telegraph is now officially on the "Everyone-Hates-Us-We Don't-Care. We-Are-Welsh" register. Good to get that sorted.


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## bendeus (Oct 23, 2012)

torquemad said:


> I see what you did there!


 
No, you clearly didn't 



> I originally castigated you for your hissy-fit about Barnes - and, just so you know, Tubby gets more abuse than anyone else on his regal visits to WR - and you come back with a curveball regarding Goldenballs from the south of France. If Wilkinson is up to it he should be included. End of. Personally I don't think I would pick him at this point.


 
Just making a point about the press and some of the sputum they dribble, that's all.



> But for you to insinuate that there is a conspiracy against Biggar is manifest bollox - or merely another expression of some vicarious form of "victimhood".


 
I didn't. I merely pointed out that the effusiveness of praise reserved for him when he did exactly what Flood did was of several magnitudes less than that of his opposite number. You're not doing great so far, are you? The only 'conspiracy' is from Rob Howley, and that's an internal matter.



> So now to Biggar, which I guess was the aim of your original post. He is good. I acknowledged that already. He is playing well. But, then, so are others in his position, in England, in Ireland and in France.


 
I agree, and am on record as saying so. The halfback problem currently besetting the B&NI nations is a serious weakness.



> So lets just see how things pan out over the next few months shall we?


 
Yes, let's. Maybe within that time period you'll be able to grasp context and meaning from a multiplicity of posts 



> In the meantime stop with the "all my Geese are Swans" myopia. Biggar is no more deserving nor entitled than anyone else


 
Yes, he is, but on current form only in terms of inclusion in the Wales squad. Where do you dredge this drivel up from, m'dear boy?



> And in the spirit of your gratuitous racist name-calling ("Harlem Bogtrotters")


 
I'm half Irish by descent and have an Irish surname. My antipathy to the 'Irish way' and the 'golden generation' is a matter of record on here. The Munster reference (which I will admit to finding quite amusing) was nothing to do with me, but was lifted from a poster on a Welsh rugby forum, and is referenced in a previous post on this here thread. _Racist_ 



> perhaps, in your rose-tinted swooning over the boy Biggar, you haven't even noticed that he doesn't look remotely like a sheep. Still, with the cold winter nights drawing in .....


 
Racist!111elevetyone!!!111



> If you have an issue with Fatty Barnes don't whinge to me. Write to Sky or do as we do at Leicester and let him know directly and in a very vocal manner what we think.


 
You don't get it, do you? I have an 'issue' with the unbalanced treatment of the English media and the myopia regarding its teams and its stars, in rugby as well as a number of other sports. This, too, is a matter of record, and I bear the scars from plenty of tussles on here regarding the same thing. To castigate Fatty alone is missing the point. He should be tarred and feathered along with Inverdale, Greenwood, Robertson, _et al_ for being a one-eyed twat who wouldn't know objectivity if it did him up the arse with a marrow.



> But wait..... you don't get enough people at the House of Emptiness to make a noise. Pen and paper or third-party ranting it is, so, eh?


 
I have dealt with the slow death of Welsh regional rugby on these threads plenty of times. Do you really think this is going to cut me deep?



> As for the Moore article, once again I had previously referred to Poite's - and by extension the overwhelming majority of top refs - lack of competence at reffing the scrum. I have been boring anyone close enough to hear for the last two years that the scrummaging laws need to be revisited. For my money, we need to revert to the stationary engaging and setting of the scrum before front rows are permitted to drive. Otherwise I do seriously fear that there will be major problems for some of today's hookers and props. I may not often like the style of his delivery nor the one-eyed content of his commentary. When it comes to scrums and scrummaging, however, Moore knows what he is talking about.


On this, we agree. Moore is bright and has a lot of insight. He is passionately patriotic and makes no bones about who he wants to win, but this doesn't blind him to the excellence of oppo teams and players. He's a patriotic Englishman who really understands rugby and sees both sides. Fatty is a jingoistic twat who only sees one. Can you see the difference?


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## bendeus (Oct 23, 2012)

torquemad said:


> I could spend an hour itemising the blatant cheating/ sharp practice employed by Welsh teams (or Irish, English, NZ, French for that matter). But why bother. Even casting my mind back over games involving the Welsh just makes me fall asleep. The one that IS worth mentioning, nonetheless, is your theft of the Grand Slam. Second ballfor quick throw-in. Remember that one?


 
Hate to tell you this, Torquemad, but that incident (the one involving Phillips, yes?) wasn't a GS year. It was in 2011. You're rapidly heading for a 0/10 here, mate, and no amount of red writing is going to help, I fear.

http://www.skysports.com/rugbyunion/match_report/0,20244,11069_42861_1,00.html



> Sorry, not under-achieving. Non-achieving.


 
That's proper silly. Non-achieving is not something I'd use to describe Cardiff RFC or its later incarnation, the Blues. They have some of the best honours against international sides of any club in the world, have recently won the Amlin and the EDF as well as countless titles back in the days of the Welsh Cup and League. Their _modern _record is one of under-achievement given the fact that they were once one of the greatest club sides in the world, and had some of the most glittering names in world rugby history playing for them at the same time.



> ETA: At least Ospreys won the Rabo last season. And _Gleision Caerdydd_...... oh wait, they didn't


You're also aware that '27 is an Os fan, aren't you? Tut tut.


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## bendeus (Oct 23, 2012)

...and finally, re:the Telegraph article you used as the source that 'proves' your point. You're aware that sports hacks write to an imaginary demographic with an imaginary income from an imaginary part of the world that most closely defines their client base, aren't you? Whether that hack is Welsh (Rees), Scottish (Robertson) or Irish (Gallagher) the result is the same. Rees won't write stuff for some bloke in a two-up-two-down in Pontlottyn in the same way Robertson won't for a Scotsman. They write for those who will pay them most, and in the case of the Torygraph it's, well, Torygraph readers, who are mainly white, male, older, well-off and, wait for it, English. You expect balance? LOL.


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## bendeus (Oct 23, 2012)

torquemad said:


> History will not remember the losers.


 
Unless the losers schweam and schweam till they're thick, and get their lawyer friends to fight their failed on-field campaigns for them, of course. History remembers those cunts, all right.


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## torquemad (Oct 24, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Unless the losers schweam and schweam till they're thick, and get their lawyer friends to fight their failed on-field campaigns for them, of course. History remembers those cunts, all right.


 
Oh dear. We have touched a nerve here, innit.

In fact, based on previous exchanges,  I always had you down as a half reasonable sort, unlike '27. The significant part of the exchange today was with your mate 1927. Disappointingly although not surprisingly he did not offer a scintilla of meaningful comment or analysis. In reality, he has played today exactly like the Hairsprays did on Sunday. Plenty of bluff and bluster up front, blaming third parties and, finally, leaving the game with fuck all. It says it all that I did not identify him as an O's supporter. Nor has he. Weak, ineffectual and lacking in insight should - right enough - have given the game away. But sometimes base fucking nationalism seems to cloud judgements. And not only in the context of rugby.

I sometimes despair of messageboards. Too many keyboard warriors. Looking back over this exchange, I could have had a reasonable dialogue with you especially after, as you said yourself, you put your other eye back in. Your observations re Gallagher, Barnes are in point of fact contradictory and, more to the point, specious. I now remember why I took a two year leave of absence from this thread.The next one will be longer.

Of this I am sure, Tigers will prevail and on merit. Of that I have no doubt. The keyboard warriors will be left to sleep in their own pish. But hey, maybe that is an enjoyable night out for some?

Best of luck to you and yours in the coming season. As before, I will be happy to meet with you face to face for a beer, perhaps in the House of Emptiness or in the Arms Park.

Anyway, on the basis of your itemised response above, I make the "score" nine to me and one to you. The "I am half Irish" bollocks therefore I cannot be a racist shite is just that. Shite. Yes, I did bite and respond in kind but do not delude yourself, you can stick your half-Irishness up your hole. I care not a jot where you lifted it from, your "Bogtrotter" sobriquet is offensive. Just as my sheepshagger was in direct response. My justification - and it is weak -  is that mine was in direct relation to your soi-disant innocuous shite and was actually meant to elicit a response. It did. And if it makes a "half-Irish" twat think twice about using offensive terms in the future, good.

Where exactly do you want to draw the line? Cardiff has a proud history BUT currently are shite? The Welsh have been emasculated by all those cunts from everywhere else who just piss on us anyway? We Welsh don't bend the rules, unlike all the other cheating bastards? Get your head out of yer arse man.

And then there is this bollocks. Hardly reasoned debating points, wha? :-

"You don't get it, do you?" Not sure what you are referring to with that one.

"Maybe .... you'll be able to grasp context and meaning from a multiplicity of posts" Oh yeah, I am a proper thick cunt me, unlike your eloquent and learned self. Yeah right.

And this, arguably best of all:-

"the losers schweam and schweam till they're thick, and get their lawyer friends to fight their failed on-field campaigns for them" What the fuck ARE you bleating about????

I am sorry to say that you are increasingly sounding like a shrill irate little man with a "victim" complex, whose only pleasure in life is to castigate anyone who is outside the Principality _boyo_. You are living on past dreams, imaging slights in the present and becoming more embittered and poisonous by the day. Wise fucking up.


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## bendeus (Oct 24, 2012)

torquemad said:


> Oh dear. We have touched a nerve here, innit.


 
_Au contraire, _Torquemad, I'd say that the content and tone of your posts would indicate touched nerves. It's not me, after all, who is resorting to some fairly unpleasant _ad hom, _but hey ho! I'll be at the game, and I'd be more than happy to meet for a pint at the Library (provided you're civil, of course )

This all started because, in the heat of battle, and while watching live, I made two assertions:

That Poite was missing some clear Tigers infringements at the scrum, that he was a homer, and that he had previous here (citing Munster, the outcome of whose game in the HEC against Ulster last year he had a significant bearing on). _At no point _did I suggest the fact that he has an anti-Welsh bias, and if you can find anything, I'll even buy you that beer. You have thus far failed to raise any cogent points that rebut either of my assertions, instead wading rather lamely in with the far more difficult to prove "you weren't binding." I acknowledge that this may have happened, but it doesn't negate my points about Tigers players popping up with no sanction, nor the 180 degree wheel debacle. Would you care to respond on either of these points?
That Barnes was commentating differently on the two teams, and specifically the two outside halves. I gave quoted examples of this, which again you didn't respond to. Again, Barnes has previous here, and I find it slightly baffling that for the sake of this 'debate' you'd try to suggest a two-eyed objectivity on his part that clearly wasn't there.
I _am _a reasonable sort of fella, but you appeared to be on a roll, citing bluster and non-facts as substantiation to the points you weren't making, hence my response to your responses to '27's posts. Remember, also, that 1927 is his own poster. I am neither responsible for the content of what he posts nor the sentiments behind it, so I'd thank you to not regard us as some kind of two-headed chippy Welsh hydra, if you'd be so kind.



> Your observations re Gallagher, Barnes are in point of fact contradictory and, more to the point, specious.


 
O rly? How so? 



> Anyway, on the basis of your itemised response above, I make the "score" nine to me and one to you. The "I am half Irish" bollocks therefore I cannot be a racist shite is just that. Shite. Yes, I did bite and respond in kind but do not delude yourself, you can stick your half-Irishness up your hole. I care not a jot where you lifted it from, your "Bogtrotter" sobriquet is offensive. Just as my sheepshagger was in direct response. My justification - and it is weak - is that mine was in direct relation to your soi-disant innocuous shite and was actually meant to elicit a response. It did. And if it makes a "half-Irish" twat think twice about using offensive terms in the future, good.


 
Ok, let's put this one to bed right now. I don't consider 'sheepshagger' to be racist in the same way as I don't consider 'Taffy' to be so. It can be annoying and/or chauvenistic, or it can be used jokingly in a way that doesn't cause offense. I wonder if you *really* think this is racist in the same way as if I'd called you 'fenian scum', or used the word 'Paki' or 'nigger' in another context, or whether this is more of a useful pretext for you to start wading in with your _ad homs. _I had previously assumed that the word in question was on the scale of 'sheepshagger' in the hierarchy of offensiveness (i.e. not very). I am, however, quite happy to be proven wrong on this._ If _you genuinely believe the word 'bogtrotter' to be on an equal scale of offensiveness as the previously cited words, and _if _you are genuinely offended rather than full of _faux _fury that justifies your bile, then I am quite happy to retract it, delete it and apologise unreservedly, _and _to buy you a second pint at the Library.

I would also add that I have never called an Irishman a 'bogtrotter' to their face or on a messageboard. As mentioned already, I read it somewhere else as a description of the new, expansive style of rugby that Muhnner are employing, and thought it rather sweet. _That _was the context it was used in, and it certainly doesn't make me racist.



> Where exactly do you want to draw the line? Cardiff has a proud history BUT currently are shite?


 
I draw the line at your inaccuracy. To call Cardiff 'non-achieving' when all the evidence clearly indicates otherwise is daft, and merely exposes you as someone who is desperately trying to point score. Under-achieving is more accurate, though even that is debatable considering the budget they have available compared to, say, the Irish provinces or the top AP sides.



> The Welsh have been emasculated by all those cunts from everywhere else who just piss on us anyway?


 
The Welsh have been emasculated by themselves in the main. Do keep up.



> And then there is this bollocks. Hardly reasoned debating points, wha? :-


 
Eh? They were in direct response to the wild inaccuracies you were chucking round, such as the lineout controversy 'stealing a GS'. In 2011! How can this not be 'reasoned'? You also seemed to be asserting that I was on a crusade to make Biggar the new Lions 10, when I was doing nothing of the sort. Again, permit me to point it out when you're spectacularly missing the point. They were reasoned debating points because they were responding to points and/or assertions you made that either failed to grasp the drift or context of the points they were addressing, or were just plain wrong. And when you say, 'reasoned', who do you think that calling people 'twats' or 'racists' in the course of MB arguments makes you? Rene fucking Descartes?




> And this, arguably best of all:-
> 
> "the losers schweam and schweam till they're thick, and get their lawyer friends to fight their failed on-field campaigns for them" What the fuck ARE you bleating about????


 

You crowed about history forgetting losers. I gave you an example when it doesn't. Yes, that still rankles. Leicester behaved appallingly over the whole debacle, and demonstrated themselves to be bullies with delusions of grandeur, who thought their status would allow them to get what they wanted by steamrollering the opposition into submission through the courtroom. It was a less-than-edifying spectacle that did little to impress Os fans or the many neutrals who thought their behaviour was equally reprehensible. And no, I won't forget that behaviour in a hurry. Tigers are not a very pleasant team, IMO.



> I am sorry to say that you are increasingly sounding like a shrill irate little man with a "victim" complex, whose only pleasure in life is to castigate anyone who is outside the Principality _boyo_. You are living on past dreams, imaging slights in the present and becoming more embittered and poisonous by the day. Wise fucking up.


 
Funny, did I 'dream' the GS of 2012, I wonder? And _you _accuse _me _of 'imagining slights'. You may want to reread the thread again.

By way of conclusion, I think you're a bright, articulate guy who really knows his rugby. If you're not prepared for the cut and thrust of a rugby thread where people dare to have opinions, perspectives and, given that this is sport, the occasional bit of bias, then as you say you're probably better off out of it. I enjoy your posts and think you definitely add something to the debate, but if you're going to fly off the handle when someone comes back at you, contradicts you or articulates an opinion that you don't like then maybe we're better off discussing it face to face at the game, because the tinterweb sometimes does that. /keyboardwarrior/


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## bendeus (Oct 24, 2012)

Another example of the perfidious English conspiring to fuck up Welsh domestic rugb.....oh!



> The regional sides believe the Welsh Rugby Union is cutting the ground from beneath their feet by refusing to back them financially, or even acknowledge their contribution in developing the players who have brought Wales three Six Nations Grand Slams in eight years and took them to within an ace of a first World Cup final 12 months ago. In fact, they go further. They say the union is actively marketing the national side against the regions and stripping them bare as a consequence.
> 
> "Here are some facts for you," said Rob Davies, one of the Ospreys' directors and principal investors. "The English and Scottish clubs receive upwards of £5m a year from the central pot, as do the Irish provinces. In Wales, the regional sides get £3.5m. And we're meant to be competitive? With that kind of shortfall?
> 
> ...


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## Red Faction (Oct 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Another example of the perfidious English conspiring to fuck up Welsh domestic rugb.....oh!


 
Blimey it's all kicking off here.

Interesting dilemma faced by the WRU.
Of course everyone wants more money.

Whats the smart thing to do?

The paying off of MillStad could be one of the quickest mortgages in history (maybe second to Arsenal at the Emirates?)

And not having to service that debt would only serve to make the profit margins higher.

What about giving more money to the clubs?
So they can invest in the youth teams, or they can raise their salary caps?

No- the WRU have the right of it here, players who leave for the money in France know they are sacrificing their international career.   In the meantime, another Welsh players gets blooded at first class club level, and so the national elite player squad grows.

There's no real risk of any of these regions going bust is there?

The stark parallels are something you can put to the fans- grass is always greener etc

Would you rather have 3 Slams in 8 years (is that right?)  and lamentable performances in Europe's flagship club tournament?

Or win the HC 5 times in 7 years and scrape a grand slam? 

Once the MilStad is paid off- everyone will be better off.


What are you more surprised by:

1.  Bryan Redpath has been axed?
2.  Michael Bradley hasn't? 
3.  Eddie O'Sullivan is still on the dole?


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## bendeus (Oct 30, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Blimey it's all kicking off here.
> 
> Interesting dilemma faced by the WRU.
> Of course everyone wants more money.
> ...



Hi, RF! *waves*

I think the answer to your question lies in whether the WRU intends to spread the largesse at a point when the mortgage is paid off. There is no indication that they plan to do this, either verbally or in writing. They are staying schtum on this and additionally spreading disinformation. They haven't conducted themselves appropriately with regards to these negotiations, IMO.

There are a number of points that are unassailable here:

1) That they stage matches that are outside the IRB window in order to earn more money for themselves, and which directly impact on regions' ability to compete in Europe, for example, for example Wales vs Aus a week before a HEC weekend
2) That they have greater access to players prior to major tournaments than any other nation that doesn't employ central contracts
3) That they contribute less for these elite and development players than any other major first or second tier nations
4) That they expect regions to shoulder the finanical burden of training and maintaining elite players when those players are lost to the regions for a total of 13 weeks over a playing season (not taking into account injuries to those players that are sustained when on or training for international duty)
5) That they continue to do this even when it becomes clear that the money the regions can command is insufficient to keep players in Wales, and when it begins to emerge that those regions no longer have the will to keep such expensive part-timers on their books

And yes, there is a real risk of these regions going bust. They are currently only sustained by benefactors consistently and continually taking a financial hit, a hit that is, in essence, a subsidy back to the WRU by wealthy, but not limitlessly wealthy, individuals. The reason the Os offloaded Paul James at the end of last season (something they are really suffering for now) is that unless they got him off their books they may well have gone bust. The Blues are creaking, even Llanelli, whose business model and state-of-the-art rugby stadium makes theirs the most viable financial model in Wales, are losing money hand over fist.

I also am unsure of whether simply shipping out our more experienced elite players to France necessarily equals a like-for-like replacement suddenly emerging. Sometimes it happens, often it doesn't.

As for the GSes; well, I'd probably rather have a mix of the two if it indicated the long-term health of the game in my country as it does in yours. Your provinces continue to dominate, you have some decent players coming through (something that looks set to accelerate with the enaction of your rule on foreign) players, the game is in financial good health, which leads to success, bigger crowds and a long-term future.

The WRU are in danger of cutting off the roots and trunk of the game in a blind pursuit of the fruit on the crown. Swansea City are already in the prem. Cardiff may well follow next season. Without a successful club game in Wales capable of pulling in the punters by keeping the best players in Wales and managing them in order to get the best out of them for club AND country then this may well be our swansong - the last hurrah before a slow decline into history.


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## bendeus (Oct 30, 2012)

Red Faction said:
			
		

> What are you more surprised by:
> 
> 1.  Bryan Redpath has been axed?
> 2.  Michael Bradley hasn't?
> 3.  Eddie O'Sullivan is still on the dole?



I am unsurprised by 3
I'm not surprised by 2. Rugby has little form for precipitate sackings early in the season.
I am more surprised by 1 for the reason given above


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## bendeus (Oct 31, 2012)

Ryan Jones (shoulder) joins Adam Jones and Lydiate in the ranks of the crocks for the AIs after sustaining a shoulder injury in Spala.

That's our two best blindsides out alongside our best TH, as well as the best TH backups (Mitchell and Rhodri Jones). It's going to be a long autumn


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 31, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Ryan Jones (shoulder) joins Adam Jones and Lydiate in the ranks of the crocks for the AIs after sustaining a shoulder injury in Spala.
> 
> That's our two best blindsides out alongside our best TH, as well as the best TH backups (Mitchell and Rhodri Jones). It's going to be a long autumn


Well we've got a TH literally off the plane from NZ, Michael Bent, qualified through his grandmother. he might be the first player since BOD to play for Ireland without playing for a province first.

I'd like to see us try some new blood in the AIs. Dunno if it will happen.


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## Red Faction (Oct 31, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> he might be the first player since BOD to play for Ireland without playing for a province first.


 
connor murray?


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 31, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> connor murray?


He played for Munster first?


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## bendeus (Nov 1, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Well we've got a TH literally off the plane from NZ, Michael Bent, qualified through his grandmother. he might be the first player since BOD to play for Ireland without playing for a province first.


 
Bloody hell! I have to say that this would make me feel rather uncomfortable. How do you guys feel about the possibility of a Saffa and a Kiwi packing down for you in the autumn?

Are we now at a point where notions of nationality and/or belonging in international rugby are as obsolete as amateurism?


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## bendeus (Nov 1, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I'd like to see us try some new blood in the AIs. Dunno if it will happen.


 
Anyone in particular that you have in mind?


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## gabi (Nov 1, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bloody hell! I have to say that this would make me feel rather uncomfortable. How do you guys feel about the possibility of a Saffa and a Kiwi packing down for you in the autumn?
> 
> Are we now at a point where notions of nationality and/or belonging in international rugby are as obsolete as amateurism?


 
It's been that way for some time. I dont like it either. Cricket's suffering from it too. It's hard to support NZ when we've got a saffa keeping wicket.


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## bendeus (Nov 1, 2012)

gabi said:


> It's been that way for some time. I dont like it either. Cricket's suffering from it too. It's hard to support NZ when we've got a saffa keeping wicket.


 
Yeah. It's the blurred lines between residential qualification and ancestral qualification. I think that this guy Bent sounds particularly dodgy, though. A product of a Kiwi system (and NZRFU investment), born and raised in NZ and two generations removed from his adopted country. It may be that he kept the flame of Ireland burning bright in his heart throughout his young life, but I somehow doubt it.

Not questioning the legitimacy of his cap, as by the roolz he's perfectly entitled to it, but more the _rightness _of it.


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## Nigel Irritable (Nov 1, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Not questioning the legitimacy of his cap, as by the roolz he's perfectly entitled to it, but more the _rightness _of it.


 
You won't get very far with Irish fans questioning "granny rule" players. The football team has long inured people here to it. Also, a long history of mass emigration means that everyone has cousins born abroad and, by and large, their "Irishness" is accepted in Ireland to a greater degree than, say the "Scottishness" of some American with a Scottish granddad would be in Scotland.


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## bendeus (Nov 1, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> You won't get very far with Irish fans questioning "granny rule" players. The football team has long inured people here to it. Also, a long history of mass emigration means that everyone has cousins born abroad and, by and large, their "Irishness" is accepted in Ireland to a greater degree than, say the "Scottishness" of some American with a Scottish granddad would be in Scotland.


 
God, I'd forgotten about Wor Jackie's Cockney-Irish army. I just find the idea of somebody representing a country that they have never set foot in before rather sad. It's obviously not just Ireland - think Vinnie Jones (plus three feather, _Ich Dien _tattoo) turning out for Wales - but to me it does debase the shirt somewhat, regardless of the colour of the shirt is that is being pulled on.


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## Nigel Irritable (Nov 1, 2012)

bendeus said:


> God, I'd forgotten about Wor Jackie's Cockney-Irish army. I just find the idea of somebody representing a country that they have never set foot in before rather sad.


 
Probably because you don't come from a country with a diaspora many times larger than the country's current population and a history of centuries of continuous mass emigration.

National identities are shaped by history. Large scale emigration has a central part in Ireland's history. Therefore there are attitudes to the "Irishness" of the children of emigrants which might reasonably seem strange to a Welsh or English person.


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## gabi (Nov 1, 2012)

The thing with a country like NZ is that it's very very young (170 years or so i think). Most people there have relatively recent British heritage. I could theoretically represent England, Wales or Scotland based on my grandparents. Give it 50 years or so and I don't think you'll be seeing so much of this stuff.


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## Teaboy (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm fairly relaxed about players born outside of the UK playing for England although I think a UK passport should be a pre-requisite.  Frankly I'd be more concerned if holders of a UK passport were not considered because they were born elsewhere.  Obviously the passport thing gets a bit more confused when you start talking about English people playing for Scotland etc.


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 1, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> You won't get very far with Irish fans questioning "granny rule" players. The football team has long inured people here to it. Also, a long history of mass emigration means that everyone has cousins born abroad and, by and large, their "Irishness" is accepted in Ireland to a greater degree than, say the "Scottishness" of some American with a Scottish granddad would be in Scotland.


It's different though as pro rugby is played in Ireland so there is more of a connection with the players and the team. I don't care that much about granny rules players but residency rules really bother me.


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 1, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Anyone in particular that you have in mind?


Zebo, Felix Jones, keatley, Dave Kearney, Craig Gilroy


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## Red Faction (Nov 2, 2012)

see ulster have sent the largest contingent to the ireland training camp?

when was the last time they were able to boast that stat?

i have a great deal of sympathy for players who up sticks to the other side of the world, settle down, raise a family, and part of me thinks- on residency, probably should deserve a national call up for the adopted country

such as that chap -?van Gisbergen?  a Wasps centre who played for England, born in South Africa

on the other hand

the laws must be tightened up substantially

the IRB wants to promote rugby world-wide?

then why allow australia/nz to poach pacific islanders?

they use the same loopholes


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## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 3, 2012)

The only thing that annoys me about some of rules are because it allows the 2nd and 3rd tier nations to have their best players taken by 1st tier nations. Imagine if the Pacific Island nations had all their best players available, they would be winning many more games. Then there's Visser playing for Scotland instead of Netherlands, Dusautoir playing for France instead of Ivory Coast or Pocock playing for Australia instead of Zimbabwe (probably many more examples). I understand why those players want to play for those countries as they want to test themselves at the highest level and they're entitled to play for those countries. But part of me thinks it would be better for the game if they played for the lesser nation to help bring those teams on a bit while still playing professionally in their now adopted countries. I really can't blame them for their choice though


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## gabi (Nov 4, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> then why allow australia/nz to poach pacific islanders?
> 
> they use the same loopholes


 
Can I please, hopefully for the last time, point out how untrue this statement is. Just because a player has a Samoan name doesn't mean he was born in Samoa. Auckland has the largest population of Pacific Islanders in the world, far bigger than all the islands put together. Nobody in the current squad was 'poached'. They were all born and raised in New Zealand. They're kiwis. By this logic, England's cricket team 'poached' Monty Panesar and Ravi Bopara.

Would be good to sort your facts out before making such an ignorant claim.


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## Red Faction (Nov 5, 2012)

Would be good to sort your facts out before making such an ignorant claim.


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## Red Faction (Nov 5, 2012)

What an important win for London Welsh!

Their season began inauspiciously with defeats to tigers and and absolute hammering by 'quins

Having said that, they pushed leicester and despite shipping over 30 points, played very attacking rugby

They picked up crucial victories against Exeter and Sale

Then shipped ~ 30 points a game against Cherries, Wasps and Sarries

                 Pld PD Pts
1 Harlequins 8  65  28
2 Saracens   8  64  28
3 Leicester  8  52 25
4 Gloucester 8 26 24
5 Northampton 8 0 23
6 Exeter      8  43  20
7 Bath         8  13  20
8 Wasps       8  4  19
9 Worcester 8  -12 15
*10* *London Welsh* *8* *-65* *14*
11 London Irish 8 -85 10
12 Sale          8 -105 6


They're by no means safe, but they're playing so much better than Sale. If they carry on like this, fingers crossed they can avoid the drop!!


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## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 5, 2012)

I think Sale might stage a come back now they've picked up their 1st win after changing things around coaching wise. London Welsh don't have the squad to match other teams and I think that could tell in the 2nd half of the season.


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## gabi (Nov 5, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Would be good to sort your facts out before making such an ignorant claim.


 
How so?


----------



## flypanam (Nov 6, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Bloody hell! I have to say that this would make me feel rather uncomfortable. How do you guys feel about the possibility of a Saffa and a Kiwi packing down for you in the autumn?
> 
> Are we now at a point where notions of nationality and/or belonging in international rugby are as obsolete as amateurism?


 
About the same as you felt with Shane Howarth and Brett Sinkinson.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 6, 2012)

So then the Autumn internationals and the big question of whether any of the NH sides are going to be able to muster anything close to a first choice 15.  England have been decimated, I think they've not either picked or put on standby every English qualified prop in the league.  Looks like Ireland and Wales are also suffering injuries.


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## bendeus (Nov 6, 2012)

flypanam said:


> About the same as you felt with Shane Howarth and Brett Sinkinson.


Not very good, then


----------



## bendeus (Nov 6, 2012)

gabi said:


> Can I please, hopefully for the last time, point out how untrue this statement is. Just because a player has a Samoan name doesn't mean he was born in Samoa. Auckland has the largest population of Pacific Islanders in the world, far bigger than all the islands put together. Nobody in the current squad was 'poached'. They were all born and raised in New Zealand. They're kiwis. By this logic, England's cricket team 'poached' Monty Panesar and Ravi Bopara.
> 
> Would be good to sort your facts out before making such an ignorant claim.


But Gabi, winding you up about poaching is as much a tradition of this thread as me moaning about refs


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## bendeus (Nov 6, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> So then the Autumn internationals and the big question of whether any of the NH sides are going to be able to muster anything close to a first choice 15.  England have been decimated, I think they've not either picked or put on standby every English qualified prop in the league.  Looks like Ireland and Wales are also suffering injuries.



Aye. That combined with the fact that nobody gives a fuck about them means we'll end up on the wrong end of some beatings, I reckon


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## bendeus (Nov 6, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> What an important win for London Welsh!
> 
> Their season began inauspiciously with defeats to tigers and and absolute hammering by 'quins
> 
> ...



Very impressive again. Lyn the Lip is really going up in my estimation as a coach. Elfman' s right though, the squad is paper thin and that could be telling at the business end


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## bendeus (Nov 8, 2012)

Roberts off to Racing. Has decided not to renew his contract: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/cardiff-blues/2012/11/08/91466-32188447/

Ironically this may be good for the Blues, as they will be able to recruit 2 decent NWQs for the wages they currently pay him to play about 10 games per year. Exposes the utter clusterfuck that is Welsh regional rugby, though.


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## gabi (Nov 9, 2012)

bendeus said:


> But Gabi, winding you up about poaching is as much a tradition of this thread as me moaning about refs


 
Just seems a bit rich when the Welsh have more Pacific Island born players than the All Blacks


----------



## gabi (Nov 9, 2012)

If I was Howley I'd politely ask Gatland to 'go away'



> Warren Gatland may not be directly involved in Wales's first two matches in their autumn series, starting with Argentina on Saturday as he focuses on the Lions, but he has been spotted patrolling his squad's base in the Vale of Glamorgan on a Segway, a battery-powered, two-wheeled contraption that allows him to be mobile without using the feet he injured in a fall last May.


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/09/wales-warren-gatland-argentina


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 9, 2012)

Irish team, good to see some new faces, not sure about Zebo at FB. It will be interesting to see how McCarthy gets on.

15-Simon Zebo, 14-Tommy Bowe, 13-Keith Earls, 12-Gordon D'Arcy, 11-Andrew Trimble, 10-Jonathan Sexton, 9-Conor Murray; 1-Cian Healy, 2-Ruairí O'Strauss, 3-Mike Ross, 4-Mike McCarthy, 5-Donnacha Ryan, 6-Peter O'Mahony, 7-Chris Henry, 8-Jamie Heaslip (captain).


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## bendeus (Nov 10, 2012)

Wales team for the Poomas:


Wales team: L Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues); A Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), S Williams (Scarlets), J Roberts (Cardiff Blues), G North (Scarlets); R Priestland (Scarlets), T Knoyle (Scarlets); G Jenkins (Toulon), M Rees (Scarlets), A Jarvis (Ospreys), A-W Jones (Ospreys), I Evans (Ospreys), J Turnbull (Scarlets), S Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), T Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: R Hibbard (Ospreys), R Bevington (Ospreys), P James (Bath), R McCusker (Scarlets), J Tipuric (Ospreys), M Phillips (Bayonne), J Hook (Perpignan), L Williams (Scarlets).

Some utterly batshit selections here. Knoyle at 9 will ensure no control or nous at half back, and Turnbull, although a blindside, is about Rabo level, let alone HEC or international. What's even odder is the bench: no specialist second row cover means we are fucked if AWJ or Bradley get injured, and Hook ahead of the clearly superior Biggar smacks of yet another Stan Laurel grudge. We have a number of players who are woefully off-form, who should have benched in a meritocratic team; a brainless Spikey-Lite at the base of the scrum, and an until-recently journeyman prop up against one of the strongest scrummaging sides in the world. Why, also, is the Hibbardotomus on the bench in this situation? He's the best hooker in Wales by a mile ATM. 

It could be that they're trying combos and fringe players in order to build towards the AB/Aus games, but this is fucking Argentina, who could easily take us at the MS. Starting the series with a loss would be the worst thing we could do, and this is precisely what I expect to happen.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2012)

Given that Argentina severely pushed a full-stength NZ side I think you may be right.

Imagine what the argies could acheive with decent rugby infrastructure. Ie, central contracts.


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Nov 10, 2012)

Anyone got a solid stream/feed for the England Fiji game??


----------



## The Boy (Nov 10, 2012)

*France:* 15 Brice Dulin, 14 Wesley Fofana, 13 Florian Fritz , 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Vincent Clerc, 10 Frederic Michalak, 9 Maxime Machenaud, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Yannick Nyanga, 5 Jocelino Suta, 4 Pascal Papé (c), 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Yannick Forestier.
*Replacements:* 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Thomas Domingo, 18 Vincent Debaty, 19 Sébastien Vahaamahina, 20 Damien Chouly, 21 Morgan Parra, 22 Francois Trinh-Duc, 23 Yoann Huget.

France team for the game against the Wallabies.  Can't see anyone being scared by that line-up.


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## bendeus (Nov 10, 2012)

Yes kids, it's the Wales reverting to being totally shit after a grand slam show, again. AWJ off exposing Stan's farcical bench selection with only 40 minutes gone. Fuck off, Howley.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 10, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Irish team, good to see some new faces, not sure about Zebo at FB. It will be interesting to see how McCarthy gets on.
> 
> 15-Simon Zebo, 14-Tommy Bowe, 13-Keith Earls, 12-Gordon D'Arcy, 11-Andrew Trimble, 10-Jonathan Sexton, 9-Conor Murray; 1-Cian Healy, 2-Ruairí O'Strauss, 3-Mike Ross, 4-Mike McCarthy, 5-Donnacha Ryan, 6-Peter O'Mahony, 7-Chris Henry, 8-Jamie Heaslip (captain).


 
Keith earls at 13 gives the saffas a great attacking opportunity. He is not an international centre. I see we're playing in an all black kit  must be mourning for our national side.

As an aside it's interesting that Kidney is sticking with Murray, who is a liability in whatever shirt he plays. Also Heaslip as capt is plain weird as the man has not played a good game for Ireland in three years.

Saffas by 8+


----------



## flypanam (Nov 10, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Fuck off, Howley.


 
To paraphrase Millwall 'Rob Howley, England legend!'


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2012)

Typically classy from the Welsh crowd there. Half leaving well before full-time and the other half booing at the end.

Can't wait to see what happens when the All Blacks rock up.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2012)

Totally dominated. Wales aren't bad but I'd say Argentina are in the top 3 tbh. Brilliant performance.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 10, 2012)

flypanam said:


> To paraphrase Millwall 'Rob Howley, England legend!'



We were shocking. Beaten senseless in every area of the game. Stan picked on reputation not form, took risks with his bench and paid the price. What fucks me off to the point of insanity is our utter, utter reliance on Roberts to provide the platform for phase play. Remove him and you have a bunch of numpties shuffling from side to side and aimlessly kicking the ball away. Our basic skills were atrocious both with ball in hand and in defence, and the use of the bench poorly thought through and erratic. Why, for example, was Tipuric brought on after 72 minutes when Warburton had delivered the sum total of fuck all over that period and the game was screaming out for competition for the ball at the tackle area.

Don't get me fucking started on the lack of second row cover on the bench - it's inexcusable at this level.

I can easily see us losing all four of these. WRU: that's what you get for giving your head coach a one-year sabbatical and allowing the buffoon who he has been covering for and protecting to take the reins. What other fucking country would do this?

Only bright side is the fact that we'll be taking far, far fewer players to Australia next year, which means fewer injuries and less burn out.

Rejoice, we're pants again!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Typically classy from the Welsh crowd there. Half leaving well before full-time and the other half booing at the end.
> 
> Can't wait to see what happens when the All Blacks rock up.



They were booing their own team, IMO. Entirely justified given what was on offer today.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2012)

Argentina are a very very good side bendeus. Better than the aussies imo. Dont be too down on your boys. They probably underestimated them, as the tri-nations teams did.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Argentina are a very very good side bendeus. Better than the aussies imo. Dont be too down on your boys. They probably underestimated them, as the tri-nations teams did.



I agree about Argentina, Gabi, but there's no excuse for some of the excrement on display from the home side. We didn't threaten their line once.


----------



## 1927 (Nov 10, 2012)

What is Howley's obsession with Priestland? shouldnt have been anywhere near that team omho. Warbs hasnt played enough rugby to have been considered.

Missed Ryan massively, front row wasnt exposed as I thought it would be in Adam's absence. Ian Evans did his best as he always does. Scott Williams only saw the ball twice and looked good both times, but it we persevere with Priestland he might as well have th enext 3 weeks off. even Wellies would have given us more options. Oh for a fucking fit and mentally stable Henson, he;d have fucking strolled into that team.

Why the fuck did Toby keep popping up on the wing? he;s a good ball carrier close to the ruck, but aint gonna do feck all out wide. Tips to start next week please, and if that means dropping the skipper then fucking get it done.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 10, 2012)

Well that was unexpected...


----------



## gabi (Nov 11, 2012)

Disgraceful from Thomson. Deserves a lengthy ban, the fucking idiot.

Carter was stupidly good. Again. It's like watching Federer play tennis. Just looks so easy.


----------



## starfish (Nov 11, 2012)

Well that was expected. Gave them a bit of a game for 20 minutes or so though.

Not really sure what Thompson was trying to do, it wasnt a stamp or a kick but it was stupid.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Keith earls at 13 gives the saffas a great attacking opportunity. He is not an international centre. I see we're playing in an all black kit  must be mourning for our national side.
> 
> As an aside it's interesting that Kidney is sticking with Murray, who is a liability in whatever shirt he plays. Also Heaslip as capt is plain weird as the man has not played a good game for Ireland in three years.
> 
> Saffas by 8+


A game of two halves. We are so bad at closing out games though. We really should have won that.

I'd like to see Bowe at 13, him and Zebo linked up well in that game, Maybe Paul Marshall will get a run out againsy Fiji.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 14, 2012)

Yeah I saw Marshall is in the running for a start. He's consistently out performed Murray, who is so fucking slow in thought and deed and Reddan who is on his way out. I'd like to see Boss back on the bench I really think he's a gem.

Zebo was very good on Saturday, no Kearney, but he's got some talent. Just a shame that our moves in the final quarter we easily snuffed out. Not his fault though.

Bowe at 13 is an option but not a long term solution I really think that if Eoin O'Malley was fit him and Luke Marshall would make a good centre partrnership, though size might be an issue.

Thank fuck for Bent too!

I'd be fairly hopeful about our prospects but I've lost all faith in Kidney...I think the players might have too.


----------



## gabi (Nov 14, 2012)

SBW's left the game for bit. Such a slapper. He'll be back.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/7950079/SBW-raises-NRL-TV-rights-by-1m


----------



## flypanam (Nov 15, 2012)

CONOR FUCKING MURRAY - What has this tool got on Kidney?

*Ireland XV* (v Fiji): 15 Denis Hurley (Munster); 14 Fergus McFadden (Leinster), 13 Darren Cave (Ulster), 12 Luke Marshall (Ulster), 11 Craig Gilroy (Ulster); 10 Paddy Jackson (Ulster), 9 C Murray; 1 David Kilcoyne (Munster), 2 Seán Cronin (Leinster), 3 Mike Ross (Leinster); 4 Donncha O’Callaghan (Munster), 5 Dan Tuohy (Ulster); 6 Iain Henderson (Ulster), 7 John Muldoon (Connacht), 8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster, capt). *Replacements:* Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Cian Healy (Leinster), Michael Bent (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Chris Henry (Ulster), Paul Marshall (Ulster), Jonathan Sexton (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster).


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 15, 2012)

flypanam said:


> CONOR FUCKING MURRAY - What has this tool got on Kidney?
> 
> *Ireland XV* (v Fiji): 15 Denis Hurley (Munster); 14 Fergus McFadden (Leinster), 13 Darren Cave (Ulster), 12 Luke Marshall (Ulster), 11 Craig Gilroy (Ulster); 10 Paddy Jackson (Ulster), 9 C Murray; 1 David Kilcoyne (Munster), 2 Seán Cronin (Leinster), 3 Mike Ross (Leinster); 4 Donncha O’Callaghan (Munster), 5 Dan Tuohy (Ulster); 6 Iain Henderson (Ulster), 7 John Muldoon (Connacht), 8 Jamie Heaslip (Leinster, capt). *Replacements:* Richardt Strauss (Leinster), Cian Healy (Leinster), Michael Bent (Leinster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Chris Henry (Ulster), Paul Marshall (Ulster), Jonathan Sexton (Leinster), Simon Zebo (Munster).


 
Blimey, all change from the SA match.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 15, 2012)

It's not a test.

Tests can only be played at the 'AVIVA' according to the naming rights agreement the IRFU signed with the insurance comapny.

Money ruining rugby.


----------



## gabi (Nov 15, 2012)

that cant be true? really?


----------



## flypanam (Nov 15, 2012)

afaik


----------



## flypanam (Nov 16, 2012)

It's SAMOA!!! My second team. C'mon Manu Samoa!


----------



## ddraig (Nov 16, 2012)

1 min 4 seconds!


----------



## flypanam (Nov 16, 2012)

After watching Wales bowl over opposition teams, a bit of their own medicine was deserved. Great try.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 16, 2012)

Arse. Beck read that well.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 16, 2012)

ouch!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

I somehow get the feeling that this team don't like playing for Stan. No heart, no soul, no guts. Falling off tackles, absent at the breakdown, don't give a fuck. This is a good thing; hopefully it means that we'll be rid of the clueless fuck and his antediluvian tactics sooner rather than later.

As an aside, that's now Adam, AWJ, The Hibbardotomus and Biggar injured on Wales duty. Fucked for the HEC now. *update* now Ian Evs.

As another aside, that 'clear out' was appalling. Led with head and shoulder on the vulnerable side of a player who didn't know it was coming. Exactly what Bakkies did on Adam in the Lions tour in SA. Cynical fucking cunt. Hope he's cited, but he won't be. IRB really care, you know.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 16, 2012)

Davies calls it right on Barnes.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Davies calls it right on Barnes.



I also enjoyed "Hands off, Blue!", followed by the Blue player emerging with the ball and a try being scored. FFS!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

They're a bunch of fucking cheap shot thugs, but they're bullying us on our own home turf. Shameful. 

I won't be watching next week.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

4 daft pens from Ryan now. Do you think they're making a statement? Playah Powah!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

Priestland is a busted flush


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

Flat footed, clueless, cowardly, and that's just the match officials.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

2 matches, 1 line break, no tries scored from phase play, 5 tries shipped.

I feel a crisis stirring, hopefully followed by a sacking. This is wooden spoon form.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 16, 2012)

That was a yellow at least for that clearing out


----------



## 1927 (Nov 16, 2012)

Unbelievable, tells them to play on when there was clear knock on and offside!


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## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

The officials are clueless. This, however, is not the cause of our demise. The WRU allowing our head coach to take a year off to coach the Lions, and insisting on succession planning based around a fuckwit with no pedigree being in charge for a year is the reason. The players obviously agree judging by our performance. We are not this bad. Not at all. The stats speak for themselves, however. We are being "coached" up our own arses. This defeat will be the record run for a new coach. It is incumbent on the WRU to do something, but what can they do? Painted into a corner of their own decorating skills. Gatland gone, no obvious successor, discord in the camp, idiots in charge, year after a Slam. Croeso I Gymru.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> That was a yellow at least for that clearing out



And for all the other thuggery. They could have had seven. However, see my above post.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

This is 2005 all over again. Something rotten in the camp.


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## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

Oh, and please form an orderly queue to laugh at me, English and Irish posters


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## 1927 (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> This is 2005 all over again. Something rotten in the camp.


 
Howley and too tough a regime in Poland.


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## flypanam (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Oh, and please form an orderly queue to laugh at me, English and Irish posters


 
Nah can't do it mate, it tough when yr team loses.

Maybe, just next week you may throw the game plan out the window when it doesn't work for you and maybe play some heads up shit.

'27  there's a lot of truth there. Spala is good for pre season but midway? madness.


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## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

Lions team for XV for 2013: Halfpenny, North, Tuilagi, Allen, Sexton, Youngs, Bowe, Ferris, Morgan, Tipuric, POC, Gray, Healey, AN Other, Cole

Lube up before you shove it in, bois!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Oh, and please form an orderly queue to laugh at me, English and Irish posters


Kiwis up next


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Lions team for XV for 2013: Halfpenny, North, Tuilagi, Allen, Sexton, Youngs, Bowe, Ferris, Morgan, Tipuric, POC, Gray, Healey, AN Other, Cole
> 
> Lube up before you shove it in, bois!


There's plenty of rugby to go and hopefully some better candidates will emerge.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Nah can't do it mate, it tough when yr team loses.
> 
> Maybe, just next week you may throw the game plan out the window when it doesn't work for you and maybe play some heads up shit.
> 
> '27  there's a lot of truth there. Spala is good for pre season but midway? madness.



We're automata. No more capable of a talk under the posts gameplan change than Michael Gove is of being a likeable fella you'd want to have a pint with.  The game has moved on: support runners and offloading in the tackle off the strike runner ( see Samoa today) and aggressive counter rucking against the weakest pillar followed by flooding the breakdown once the weak point had been identified. NZ lead and the world follows, unless you're us, of course, in which case you stick with the same outdated tactics year after year because you think you know better. 

Spala fucked us, yes. Apparently you need a week to recover, and we didn't have that luxury. However, the problem lies elsewhere. The players don't believe in the 'gameplan' they're being sold. They think it's idiocy that doesn't suit their natural style. They believe they're being coached by a stubborn cretin who is utterly out of his depth. All this is surmise, however., but it seems very plausible, doesn't it?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Kiwis up next



Thanks. I expect your AIs to be poor as well, if that's any consolation.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> There's plenty of rugby to go and hopefully some better candidates will emerge.



Yes, Sexton and Allen are, frankly, ridiculous choices ;-)


----------



## fucthest8 (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> We're automata. No more capable of a talk under the posts gameplan change than Michael Gove is of being a likeable fella you'd want to have a pint with. The game has moved on: support runners and offloading in the tackle off the strike runner ( see Samoa today) and aggressive counter rucking against the weakest pillar followed by flooding the breakdown once the weak point had been identified. NZ lead and the world follows, unless you're us, of course, in which case you stick with the same outdated tactics year after year because you think you know better.


 
Intelligent post.

I'll be honest, I worry about the ability of many players these days to think for themselves and whether Captain is a meaningful appointment any more. I always used to dig at my footy playing mates that "Captain" of a football team was fucking meaningless, that they never made any on-pitch decisions, never changed the course of a game ... I fear Rugby has gone the same way. The collapse of Wales without Gaitland is just that writ large. I've long thought he major difference with the Southern Hemisphere nations is (a) utter self-belief, both in terms of the team and the individuals and therefore (b) the ability to make intelligent mid-game choices, adapt to the opposition and fuck the game plan.


----------



## 1927 (Nov 16, 2012)

Wales won the GS last season and did well in RWC cos they found a few big guys all at once and could play a fast physical game. But now we rely on that every second of every game, we have been sussed, Oh for a fit, mentally as well as physically, Gavin.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Nov 16, 2012)

1927 said:


> Wales won the GS last season and did well in RWC cos they found a few big guys all at once and could play a fast physical game. But now we rely on that every second of every game, we have been sussed, Oh for a fit, mentally as well as physically, Gavin.


 
We have been sussed, no plan B whatsoever. and Howley at the helm is a bloody joke, we are clueless.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

fucthest8 said:


> Intelligent post.
> 
> I'll be honest, I worry about the ability of many players these days to think for themselves and whether Captain is a meaningful appointment any more. I always used to dig at my footy playing mates that "Captain" of a football team was fucking meaningless, that they never made any on-pitch decisions, never changed the course of a game ... I fear Rugby has gone the same way. The collapse of Wales without Gaitland is just that writ large. I've long thought he major difference with the Southern Hemisphere nations is (a) utter self-belief, both in terms of the team and the individuals and therefore (b) the ability to make intelligent mid-game choices, adapt to the opposition and fuck the game plan.



Intelligent reply. Yes, the Kiwis are in another galaxy, let alone league, in terms of decision making. We can train our players, we can condition them to within an inch of their lives, but unless they are able to make the right decisions at the right moments (something the ABs do subconsciously) we will end up looking like village idiots. That was evident today: Priestland booting away turnover ball with an overlap had me blubbing into my sofa cushions, but it was precisely because he has been taught to within an inch of his life that unless Roberts is running a line, or unless North is coming inside, there is nothing for him to do. From worthy champions to joke of world rugby. Again.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> We have been sussed, no plan B whatsoever. and Howley at the helm is a bloody joke, we are clueless.



This. They've had four years to come up with plan B, mind. Every other team in the world seems to have pushed own except us. We're living in the past and nobody seems to have felt it necessary to make a change. Last season we had the basics right; good breakdown, strong and aggressive defence and direct running. Add offloads and counter rucking to this and all of a sudden you have a modern side. Compare us to England now: it makes you weep.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

1927 said:


> Wales won the GS last season and did well in RWC cos they found a few big guys all at once and could play a fast physical game. But now we rely on that every second of every game, we have been sussed, Oh for a fit, mentally as well as physically, Gavin.



We were sussed in 2008. Training and conditioning carried us last season. I've been ranting about our gameplan since 2009 on here, and I've been ranting about Stan even harder. It's just this time we don't have Shane, Sam, Spala fitness or North to fall back on. Found out is right. Oppo teams have just realised that, and it's starting to bite.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Thanks. I expect your AIs to be poor as well, if that's any consolation.


So do I. Hopefully it will make Kidney go quicker 

But it won't, he'll be there for the 6N


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 16, 2012)

.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> but it won't.



We have a spare Howley, if that's any help


----------



## The Boy (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Intelligent reply. Yes, the Kiwis are in another galaxy, let alone league, in terms of decision making. We can train our players, we can condition them to within an inch of their lives, but unless they are able to make the right decisions at the right moments (something the ABs do subconsciously) we will end up looking like village idiots. That was evident today: Priestland booting away turnover ball with an overlap had me blubbing into my sofa cushions, but it was precisely because he has been taught to within an inch of his life that unless Roberts is running a line, or unless North is coming inside, there is nothing for him to do. From worthy champions to joke of world rugby. Again.


 
To be honest, I thought it was an affliction that only affected the French, but it seems that NH coaching techniques are so prescriptive as to leave the players unable to play what they see in front of them.  SH teams aren't immune to this, mind - see NZ fannying about against France in WC quarter at MillStad when they could have taken the drop goal - but they definitely strike me as having a lot more nous than your average NH grunt.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

SH teams are most definitely not immune: http://www.clubcall.com/rugby-union/deans-under-attack-from-campese-1501226.html

Remind you of anyone?

It's the failure to adapt that saddens me. We had a platform to build off in 08, but inexplicably decided that the same tactics would do next year. And next. And next, etc.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

The Boy said:


> To be honest, I thought it was an affliction that only affected the French, but it seems that NH coaching techniques are so prescriptive as to leave the players unable to play what they see in front of them.  SH teams aren't immune to this, mind - see NZ fannying about against France in WC quarter at MillStad when they could have taken the drop goal - but they definitely strike me as having a lot more nous than your average NH grunt.



Lancaster is better than this, IMO.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm quite prepared to believe that, tbh.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 16, 2012)

The Boy said:


> I'm quite prepared to believe that, tbh.


GS winners next year. In Cardiff as well.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 16, 2012)

bendeus said:


> GS winners next year. In Cardiff as well.


 
I'm sure your boys will do their duty and stand up for the civilised world.


----------



## Grandma Death (Nov 17, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> We have been sussed, no plan B whatsoever. and Howley at the helm is a bloody joke, we are clueless.



It's hard not to get mad at Howley. We didn't do too bad against the aussies despite losing the series. We drifted by what was it 11points? However Fuck knows what's going on at the moment. I've just gotback from the match and we looked clueless. No spirit at all. Stupid mistakes and diabolical line outs. We've got the talent we just seem to have lost our way. We slumped after the 05 and 08 slams and it looks like that's gonna happen again.


----------



## Grandma Death (Nov 17, 2012)

bendeus said:


> GS winners next year. In Cardiff as well.


For sure... Them or the irish.


----------



## Grandma Death (Nov 17, 2012)

So just how severe is the spanking we're gonna take from NZ then?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

The Boy said:


> I'm sure your boys will do their duty and stand up for the civilised world.



We couldn't 'stand up' for Eva Herzigova with a 'hello boys' look in her eyes at present. Defeated before we take to the field.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> It's hard not to get mad at Howley. We didn't do too bad against the aussies despite losing the series. We drifted by what was it 11points? However Fuck knows what's going on at the moment. I've just gotback from the match and we looked clueless. No spirit at all. Stupid mistakes and diabolical line outs. We've got the talent we just seem to have lost our way. We slumped after the 05 and 08 slams and it looks like that's gonna happen again.



The Aussies are shit, and France just proved it. Stan fucked that series for us. I got mad at Howley in 08/09. What took you so long?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> For sure... Them or the irish.



Nah. They'll be competing with us for a new coach at the end of this series.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> So just how severe is the spanking we're gonna take from NZ then?



Bummed raw. What's that in points?


----------



## Grandma Death (Nov 17, 2012)

bendeus said:


> The Aussies are shit, and France just proved it. Stan fucked that series for us. I got mad at Howley in 08/09. What took you so long?



Cmon bendeus. You know your stuff and I respect your rugby views but the wallabies aren't that bad. Their rankings and scorecard wouldn't suggest they're shit. Personally I thought individuals in the team fucked that series with some pretty poor last gasp decisions.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Cmon bendeus. You know your stuff and I respect your rugby views but the wallabies aren't that bad. Their rankings and scorecard wouldn't suggest they're shit. Personally I thought individuals in the team fucked that series with some pretty poor last gasp decisions.



Watch what England do to them and let's discuss again after that.


----------



## gabi (Nov 17, 2012)

Aussies are all over the poms at the moment in every respect except the scoreline


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Watch what England do to them and let's discuss again after that.



I'm not very good at this, am I?


----------



## gabi (Nov 17, 2012)

It was definitely a game of two halves to use Sven's expression. England should have won that. Take the fucking penalty kicks you arrogant idiots. This is a defence that kept the All Blacks at bay a few weeks ago for the first time in a very long time.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 17, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Watch what England do to them and let's discuss again after that.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 17, 2012)

And France win two games in a row.  Both against bogey teams, and with a largely unchanged squad.  

How terribly...un-French.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

The Boy said:


>



Shhhhhhh


----------



## bendeus (Nov 17, 2012)

The Boy said:


> And France win two games in a row.  Both against bogey teams, and with a largely unchanged squad.
> 
> How terribly...un-French.



Only just seen this. Shows how far you guys have come in a short space, and how far we've fallen. Coaches make a big, big difference. Funny old game, Rugby.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 18, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Only just seen this. Shows how far you guys have come in a short space, and how far we've fallen. Coaches make a big, big difference. Funny old game, Rugby.


 
Now watch us fuck up against Samoa


----------



## bendeus (Nov 18, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Now watch us fuck up against Samoa



Oh, if you don't mind, that would make me feel a whole lot better


----------



## starfish (Nov 18, 2012)

Twice as much possession & half as many tackles to make yet we still managed to lose. Pot 3 for the World Cup here we come.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 19, 2012)

Not too fussed about England losing in a way, even though they should of won and probably favourites going in to the game. They played some good rugby and I'd rather they learnt the lesson about taking points now than at the 2015 WC.

France look to be on fire at the moment, probably only NZ better than them at the moment.

Dunno what's going on at Wales but was quite happy to see Samoa win. It seems hard on Samoa with them not being in an elite competition but I suppose they don't have the funds or population to compete in one.

On current form this is how I think the top 12 should be (but won't be because of the way points are given over a longer period in rankings)

1- NZ
2- Fra
3- SA
4- Aus
5- Arg
6- Eng
7- Sco
8- Sam
9- Wal
10- Ire
11- Ita
12- Ton


----------



## gabi (Nov 19, 2012)

Gatland's timed this supremely methinks. He knew Wales were gonna get stuffed in the first two games to 'weaker' opposition and stayed away. Now he's come back to oversee a mauling by NZ which everyone always knew would happen. Something he can't really be blamed for by the media as NZ are unplayable at present. 

Gotta feel for Howley.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Nov 19, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> It seems hard on Samoa with them not being in an elite competition but I suppose they don't have the funds or population to compete in one.


 
That a joint Pacific Islands team was never brought into the Tri Nations is one of the abiding disgraces of modern rugby.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 19, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> That a joint Pacific Islands team was never brought into the Tri Nations is one of the abiding disgraces of modern rugby.


 
Maybe there could at least be a joint PI Super Rugby franchise when the next TV deal is done? There's definitley going to be expansion. Argentina should get a team now they in the RC and SA look to be adding another team, so there could be room for another. I'm just being very optimistic though


----------



## bendeus (Nov 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> Gotta feel for Howley.



No, no you haven't. He's played at being a top level coach for 4 years now. In that time he has done the square root of fuck all in terms of getting that backline clicking. Our line break stats are appalling, we're making the same mistakes now as we were in '08, our basic skills remain dreadful, and we butcher the majority of chances we have on the 'frame them' rare occasions we get into their 22.

I'm sick of incompetence being retained on Gatland's coat tails, and as a result of Roger Lewis obviously feeling it to be a legacy decision to have a Welsh coach succeed Gatland from within the setup.

Nothing Stan has ever done in coaching, including being backs coach for the Blues, would dissuade me from a strongly held belief that he does, indeed, deserve it, and that he has deserved it for a very long time without during that time having to suffer anything but the mildest criticism.

Fuck off, Stan!


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## bendeus (Nov 20, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Maybe there could at least be a joint PI Super Rugby franchise when the next TV deal is done? There's definitley going to be expansion. Argentina should get a team now they in the RC and SA look to be adding another team, so there could be room for another. I'm just being very optimistic though



*chomps cigar* now where's the money in that?


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## bendeus (Nov 20, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> That a joint Pacific Islands team was never brought into the Tri Nations is one of the abiding disgraces of modern rugby.



Or that NZ have never toured the PIs. Least they can do for nicking all their players and all.


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## flypanam (Nov 20, 2012)

Samoa left the PI team saying it wasn't financially viable in 2008 (i think)

There was talk that they would make up a lions like touring side - nowt has come of that in the last couple of years.


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## gabi (Nov 20, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Or that NZ have never toured the PIs. Least they can do for nicking all their players and all.


 
As stated previously, both Wales and England have far more players born in the Pacific Islands. Stop being so wilfully ignorant.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 20, 2012)

bendeus said:


> *chomps cigar* now where's the money in that?


 
I can always wish


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## bendeus (Nov 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> As stated previously, both Wales and England have far more players born in the Pacific Islands. Stop being so wilfully ignorant.


 
It makes an interesting counterpoint to your will-less ignorance, Gabi


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## flypanam (Nov 20, 2012)

Well looks like Gats is back for Wales. http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/1120/1224326867708.html

Annual leave from the lions? Anway watch bendy explode!


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## gabi (Nov 20, 2012)

bendeus said:


> It makes an interesting counterpoint to your will-less ignorance, Gabi


 
How sage


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## bendeus (Nov 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> How sage


Well, if you will keep biting at poaching jibes....


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## Teaboy (Nov 21, 2012)

I've not seen either of the England games yet but as much as I know we are still at the beginning of a world cup cycle and we've had some injuries I have been surprised with some of the people being selected, its good to see some more familiar faces back in the squad for Saturday.


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## The Boy (Nov 21, 2012)

France squad to choke against Manu Samoa:
*Forwards (13):* Thomas Domingo (Clermont), Yannick Forestier (Castres), Benjamin Kayser (Clermont), Dimitri Szarzewski (Racing-Metro), Vincent Debaty (Clermont), Nicolas Mas (Perpignan), Yoann Maestri (Toulouse), Pascal Pape (capt/Stade Francais), Jocelino Suta (Toulon), Damien Chouly (Clermont), Yannick Nyanga (Toulouse), Fulgence Ouedraogo (Montpellier), Louis Picamoles (Toulouse)

*Back (11):* Maxime Machenaud (Racing-Metro), Morgan Parra (Clermont), Frederic Michalak (Toulon), Franxois Trinh-Duc (Montpellier), Vincent Clerc (Toulouse), Brice Dulin (Castres), Wesley Fofana (Clermont), Florian Fritz (Toulouse), Yoann Huget (Toulouse), Maxime Mermoz (Toulon), Benjamin Fall (Racing-Metro)


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## bendeus (Nov 21, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Well looks like Gats is back for Wales. http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2012/1120/1224326867708.html
> 
> Annual leave from the lions? Anway watch bendy explode!



No exploding from me, butt. Weary resignation is my MO at present.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 21, 2012)

There has to be more to it than Gats not being totally in charge. He's still around the team and he will of set things out clearly for everyone else to follow. He seems like the kind of person who still makes sure he's in control even when he says he's not.


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## bendeus (Nov 21, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> There has to be more to it than Gats not being totally in charge. He's still around the team and he will of set things out clearly for everyone else to follow. He seems like the kind of person who still makes sure he's in control even when he says he's not.


 
Oh, he's still in control in terms of selection and tactics, I'd imagine, but very backseat. I have the feeling that it's Howley's person management and training sessions that has got players past the point of caring. At least, that combined with an incredibly outmoded gameplan that everybody has worked out. That, again, is Gatland's decision, but it's Howley who puts meat on the bones in terms of training players to fit into that tactical system, at least in attack.

The whole thing is a shambles. WRU should have called WG's bluff and told him that if he wanted the Lions he would have to resign. We're now left in the bizarre situation of having an underperforming coach dragging us down through the world rankings, who can't be sacked because the actual coach is swanning around the UK tracking potential Lions players and will return to his post in a year. Even if they did get rid of Stan, who would come in for a year? No fucker, that's who :-(


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## bendeus (Nov 22, 2012)

George North out with a hip injury. Liam Williams to wing So of our optimum starting XV that's:

Adam Jones, AWJ, Ian Evans, Richard Hibbard, Dan Lydiate, Dan Biggar, George North all out injured, and Gethin Jenkins, Jamie Roberts and Warburton way off the pace.

No team could cope with injuries to so many key players and hope to win. Oh, except the terrifying rugby machine that we will be facing on Saturday. A terrifying rugby machine that has named a full-strength side to face us. Lube up, bois, lube up


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## gabi (Nov 22, 2012)

If I was a rugby player I'd be insulted if the best sides sent out their second team against me. It might make the Welsh raise their game.

Are you going bendy?


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## Teaboy (Nov 22, 2012)

bendeus said:


> George North out with a hip injury. Liam Williams to wing So of our optimum starting XV that's:
> 
> Adam Jones, AWJ, Ian Evans, Richard Hibbard, Dan Lydiate, Dan Biggar, George North all out injured, and Gethin Jenkins, Jamie Roberts and Warburton way off the pace.
> 
> No team could cope with injuries to so many key players and hope to win. Oh, except the terrifying rugby machine that we will be facing on Saturday. A terrifying rugby machine that has named a full-strength side to face us. Lube up, bois, lube up


 
Up until the injury to North the backs looked pretty strong, although you could argue about the whole Preistland / Biggar thing.  Its the damage to the forwards and particuarly the front row that stands out for me, ok so Jones is injured but what on earth is going on with Jenkins?


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## bendeus (Nov 22, 2012)

gabi said:


> If I was a rugby player I'd be insulted if the best sides sent out their second team against me. It might make the Welsh raise their game.
> 
> Are you going bendy?



I know what you mean. On the other hand Hansen has to keep his 30+ world class players happy somehow I suppose. 

Not going. Can't afford matchday tickets these days.


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## bendeus (Nov 22, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Up until the injury to North the backs looked pretty strong, although you could argue about the whole Preistland / Biggar thing.  Its the damage to the forwards and particuarly the front row that stands out for me, ok so Jones is injured but what on earth is going on with Jenkins?



Mighty destroyer of worlds, Andrew Sheridan is being picked ahead if him due to his superior scrummaging. Gethin is bench warming and putting on weight. Thus less mobile and undercooked. Rumours abound he wants out of his contract to return to Wales.


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 22, 2012)

Irish team, Surprise, Surprise

S Zebo (Munster); T Bowe (Ulster), K Earls (Munster), G D'Arcy (Leinster), C Gilroy (Ulster); J Sexton (Leinster), C Murray (Munster); C Healy (Leinster), R Strauss (Leinster), M Ross (Leinster), D Ryan (Munster), M McCarthy (Connacht), P O'Mahony (Munster), C Henry (Ulster), J Heaslip (Leinster, capt).

it's good to see Gilroy and McCarthy there but D'Arcy?


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## bendeus (Nov 22, 2012)

Just what, exactly, does he offer?


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## flypanam (Nov 22, 2012)

Excuses, would be my guess.


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## bendeus (Nov 22, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Excuses, would be my guess.



That or dewy-eyed nostalgia. He's like the Bruce Forsyth of Irish rugby.


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## Teaboy (Nov 23, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Mighty destroyer of worlds, Andrew Sheridan is being picked ahead if him due to his superior scrummaging. Gethin is bench warming and putting on weight. Thus less mobile and undercooked. Rumours abound he wants out of his contract to return to Wales.


 
Not surprised if he wants out, 9 months ago he was a shoe-in for the Lions at the moment he'll be lucky to get on the plane.


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## gabi (Nov 23, 2012)

Carter's out according to kiwi meeja. Few other injuries too. Liked the look of Tamati Ellison. He's not in.


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## flypanam (Nov 23, 2012)

Crudden is not a bad replacement. Maybe cos Wales are borked that Chubby Hanson may play Bowden Barrett (joke)


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## gabi (Nov 23, 2012)

Cruden's not in the same league


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## bendeus (Nov 23, 2012)

gabi said:


> Cruden's not in the same league



With the exception of Ronan O'Gara , is anyone?


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## bendeus (Nov 23, 2012)

You'll still moider us with or without Carter, BTW.


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## flypanam (Nov 23, 2012)

gabi said:


> Cruden's not in the same league


 
No one is.

Did you watch any of the CHIEFS destruction of their rivals in Super rugby this year. Crudden was key. He wasn't so bad for the AB's in Argentina either, he's not the best but then again when your playing behind a dominate pack you don't need to be.


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## flypanam (Nov 24, 2012)

Fucking hell, Paul O' Connell has ruled himself out of the Lions. Reckons he won't be fit in time to earn his place.


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## Teaboy (Nov 24, 2012)

Bit early for that isnt it?


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## bendeus (Nov 24, 2012)

Ireland showing us how it should/could be done. Very impressive scoreline.


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## bendeus (Nov 24, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Fucking hell, Paul O' Connell has ruled himself out of the Lions. Reckons he won't be fit in time to earn his place.


 
Pah. Just preempting the inevitable non-pick. /oldlion/


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## The Octagon (Nov 24, 2012)

Superior tactical thinking from England at the end there


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## bendeus (Nov 24, 2012)

Fucking hell, Scotland. Beaten by Tonga at home. Puts our misery into perspective.


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## bendeus (Nov 24, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> Superior tactical thinking from England at the end there



Wonder if the Robshaw4lionzcaptain111!!11 twaddle will die down now.


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## starfish (Nov 24, 2012)

That wasnt very good was it.


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## bendeus (Nov 24, 2012)

starfish said:


> That wasnt very good was it.



Last 5 minutes were vey, vey funny, mind. Reckon AR will keep his job after this?


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## starfish (Nov 24, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Last 5 minutes were vey, vey funny, mind. Reckon AR will keep his job after this?


 
We blew it with that scrum at the end when they were down to 13. I think AR is a good coach, its the players that let him down. Sometimes they just dont do the basics well enough & we dont seem to have a sparkle in the backs.


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## Pingu (Nov 24, 2012)

hore v lucky to still be on imo.

we are getting the predicted shoeing that was inevitable tbh


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## bendeus (Nov 24, 2012)

ROFLMAO. 15 man catch and drive from the lineout. First time I've ever seen that. Try!


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## flypanam (Nov 24, 2012)

ts an old Gatland trick. Ireland used in a game against Argentina in Lens at the 99 world cup. We didn't score.


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## Pingu (Nov 24, 2012)

its a shame.. NZ dont need to play dirty and yet...


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## Pingu (Nov 24, 2012)

‎"well.. it may not be all over" lol its 5 -33 and its against new zealand, with a team full of replacements and a biased ref... got to admire the optimism though​


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## gabi (Nov 24, 2012)

Who was the ref biased towards? I thought he was a saffa?

The silence of the crowd was highly amusing. Pretty good effort from NZ but could do better. Can't wait to see Cameron/Osborne squirming in the crowd next week.


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## 1927 (Nov 24, 2012)

gabi said:


> Who was the ref biased towards? I thought he was a saffa?
> 
> The silence of the crowd was highly amusing. Pretty good effort from NZ but could do better. Can't wait to see Cameron/Osborne squirming in the crowd next week.


 
You never had any credibility on a rugby thread, but to claim after that performance that Joubert was not biased has relegated to you to the position of total idiot rather than  just idiot!


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## ferrelhadley (Nov 24, 2012)

Wales were pish and deserved to lose.

But that haymaker in the first minute was just outrageous. Pure filth.


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## Pingu (Nov 24, 2012)

To be fair Wales played ok. However the all blacks played much better.  They  also had the lions share Of The luck.  Should have played most of the year game with 14. Having said that when they we re at 14 they were still dominant


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## The Boy (Nov 24, 2012)

Disappointing from France, but at least they secured 4th in the rankings.  Although I guess it just means we'll get England or Argentina in our group


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## 1927 (Nov 25, 2012)

Pingu said:


> To be fair Wales played ok. However the all blacks played much better. They also had the lions share Of The luck.* Should have played most of the year game with 14*. Having said that when they we re at 14 they were still dominant


 
Yeah, like 79 out of 80 minutes!


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## bendeus (Nov 25, 2012)

ferrelhadley said:


> Wales were pish and deserved to lose.
> 
> But that haymaker in the first minute was just outrageous. Pure filth.



This. In abundance. Welsh press already shaping it up as a glorious defeat. Fuck off, will ya? Either way, the Hore incident was appalling, but you can't blame a ref for not seeing something in the first place


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## sleaterkinney (Nov 25, 2012)

Argentina were tired but it was a good positive performance, the back line looks great too with BOD and Rob Kearney to come back.


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## flypanam (Nov 25, 2012)

Agree, Sleater, but there are a couple of things to be worried about, the first is Earls, for all his talent, he fell of tackles, he threw a number of poor passes and his famed footwork going into gaps was not in evidence. Despite is stated preference for 13, he's not up to scratch. He may make it as a wing. As 13 is a defensive cog and attacking link we need to look past him to O' Malley, Fitzgerald or even Griffin from Connacht.

The inability of Sexton of convert point opportunities, it's cost us games in the past and against teams pushing us close it will lead to more failure. In his defence the constant presence of O'Gara is not doing him any favours. You can imagine the Cork cunt in the changing room, making light of Sexton's misses with the words' I would have...'

Conor Murray who is slow and dim witted. His box kicks were weak and cost us possession a couple of times. I suspect the only reason he makes the side is his size which is admittedly useful when we don't have the ball. I wish Kidney would give Marshall and Boss a chance.

I was really happy with the forwards and Bent as tighthead looks the real deal. Good to Heaslip working hard, if he keeps doing it yards will come. Henry and O'Mahony just seemed to be able to effect what Ferris and O'Brien failed to do in the 6 nats. The locks were great and it's time to say bye to O'Callaghan. I thought McCarthy deserved the full 80. The only worry is the hooker but I'll put that down to bedding in.


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## gabi (Nov 25, 2012)

1927 said:


> You never had any credibility on a rugby thread, but to claim after that performance that Joubert was not biased has relegated to you to the position of total idiot rather than just idiot!


 
Sorry? How/when did I gain or lose any so-called 'credibility'? It's the internet. I recognise there's a massive bias on these boards towards the northern hemisphere sides, which is understandable considering they're run by a Welsh exile living in London. The occasional wilful ignorance here is amusing though.

Anyway, I agree Hore should be banned for a very long time. That, again, was fucking disgraceful. When i was a kid the all blacks were renowned for their hard but fair play. Hansen's got to get this shit under control. That was embarrassing, as a kiwi.


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## starfish (Nov 25, 2012)

Andy Robinson has resigned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20484998


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## The Boy (Nov 25, 2012)

starfish said:


> Andy Robinson has resigned.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20484998


 
And as we speak, bendy is busy trying to pay the SRU to take Howley...


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## bendeus (Nov 25, 2012)

The Boy said:


> And as we speak, bendy is busy trying to pay the SRU to take Howley...



I fear it could turn out even worse for the old sporran munchers. Dappydoo waits in the wings, and we all know his incredibly, *ahem* 'galvanising' affect on the teams he manages.

((((Scotland))))


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## bendeus (Nov 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> Sorry? How/when did I gain or lose any so-called 'credibility'? It's the internet. I recognise there's a massive bias on these boards towards the northern hemisphere sides, which is understandable considering they're run by a Welsh exile living in London. The occasional wilful ignorance here is amusing though.
> 
> Anyway, I agree Hore should be banned for a very long time. That, again, was fucking disgraceful. When i was a kid the all blacks were renowned for their hard but fair play. Hansen's got to get this shit under control. That was embarrassing, as a kiwi.



Hore has been cited. So far, so good. Now comes the hearing and, hopefully, the very lengthy ban. We await with bated breath another high-profile test of the IRBs authority and credibility that they are almost bound to fail


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## 1927 (Nov 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> When i was a kid the all blacks were renowned for their hard but fair play. Hansen's got to get this shit under control. That was embarrassing, as a kiwi.


 
When excatly when were you a kid then? as I can remember the ABs being dirty cycnical feckers for most of my life. First tour I remember them coming over here was 1973, Murdoch sent home in disgrace, 5 years later Ashworth nearky blinding JPR and the disgraceful sight of players diving out of a line out to win a penalty and ultimately the game. If I had time I'm sure I could prob find some action of dubious ethics every year since,


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## bendeus (Nov 26, 2012)

Yeah. Some of the brutality meted out to Llanelli during the famous win in ’72 was astonishing by modern standards. Keith Murdoch was punching and kicking anything that moved out there. ABs were always famous for 'enforcing' or intimidating their way to victory, and equally famous for getting dirty when that victory wasn't assured.

Funny how perspective can alter so radically in sport depending on what side you're on. I have no doubt that there is good reason for the NZ attitude that, historically, the ABs were 'hard but fair'. From this side of the globe, however, I just remember a succession of violence and cheating that marred their obvious excellence, but I guess I'm probably basing that on the famous lineout foul that never was in 72, Murdoch's extraordinary violence in the same year, the attack on JPR that tore his face open, and now Hore's vicious act this week. Not enough to convict them by any stretch, but a few indicators of the darker side of that famous Kiwi will to win.


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## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

So, English posters, Freddie Burns: great white hope or Saes jizz totem? Being talked up in anticipation of Saturdays game, which of course you'll comfortably lose.


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## 1927 (Nov 27, 2012)

Bendy.Ya not often wrong but the line out was 78 not 72.

Watch from 4.40


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## gabi (Nov 27, 2012)

It's a contact sport. The Welsh can't compete physically and never have been able to. tbh, they've never been taken seriously in new zealand. they're admired for their lusty efforts but that's it.


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## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

gabi said:


> It's a contact sport. The Welsh can't compete physically and never have been able to. tbh, they've never been taken seriously in new zealand. they're admired for their lusty efforts but that's it.



This is the kind of bullshit that I expected, tbh. Lucky your countrymen take a more dim view of it, at least with Hore's antics. Since when has a 'contact sport' involved almost blinding people deliberately, or chucking yourself out of a lineout like a big, play-acting Jessie in order to get a penalty?

I'm assuming you feel that that Northampton player who broke the guy's arm recently, or the guy who blinded the youngest Quinell a couple of years back were playing within the spirit of the game, and that their victims were simply physically inferior, and should man up?


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## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

1927 said:


> Bendy.Ya not often wrong but the line out was 78 not 72.
> 
> Watch from 4.40




Ai. Tru, dat.


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## gabi (Nov 27, 2012)

Bendeus, I said further up the thread that Hore should be banned. And for a very long time. The 70s thing was a joke of history. NZ aren't a dirty side. Just a slightly better one than Wales.


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## 1927 (Nov 27, 2012)

gabi said:


> It's a contact sport. The Welsh can't compete physically and never have been able to. tbh, they've never been taken seriously in new zealand. they're admired for their lusty efforts but that's it.


 
Hold on, which team was it that dived out of that line out without any contact. worse still Graham Mourie admitted years later that it had been planned in the hotel the night before. Cheats, end of.


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## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

gabi said:


> Bendeus, I said further up the thread that Hore should be banned. And for a very long time. The 70s thing was a joke of history. NZ aren't a dirty side. Just a slightly better one than Wales.



Yes, and your penultimate post directly contradicts that. You're not addressing the points being made, just making cliched statements that tacitly excuse the clear examples of thuggery that have been mentioned.

That NZ are better than Wales and always have been is, of course, self-evident.


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## 1927 (Nov 27, 2012)

gabi said:


> Bendeus, I said further up the thread that Hore should be banned. And for a very long time. The 70s thing was a joke of history.* NZ aren't a dirty side*. Just a slightly better one than Wales.


 
Keep digging!


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## 1927 (Nov 27, 2012)

Should have been down to 13 men for the entire test match!

Do you want me to go on?


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## 1927 (Nov 27, 2012)

This is too easy.


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## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

Thing is, I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I acknowledge that NZ are not a dirty side in the same way that, say, Samoa are. But I do think that their winning mentality can boil over into some pretty nasty on-field behaviour. So far, so uncontroversial, I'd have thought. To ignore some of the fairly ignominious examples cited as simply by-products of a contact sport is, IMO, lazy and inaccurate. Similarly, to cite the brutality meted out by some NZ sides against some players doth not them a thuggish side make, but I'd say that they have tendencies towards it (BOD on the Lions tour being another example) that are not in evidence among other teams. I'd also say that their MUFC-like ability to overawe match officials gives them more latitude in this area than most other teams.


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## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

1927 said:


> This is too easy.




Wish there was some good footage of Murdoch in '72. He really took it to another level.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

1927 said:


> Should have been down to 13 men for the entire test match!
> 
> Do you want me to go on?




They'd still have won the series, mind


----------



## 1927 (Nov 27, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Wish there was some good footage of Murdoch in '72. He really took it to another level.


 
In the end he was sent home for beating the shit out of the manager of the Angel Hotel, but never actually got back to New Zealand and went into exile.


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## Nigel Irritable (Nov 27, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Thing is, I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I acknowledge that NZ are not a dirty side in the same way that, say, Samoa are. But I do think that their winning mentality can boil over into some pretty nasty on-field behaviour. So far, so uncontroversial, I'd have thought. To ignore some of the fairly ignominious examples cited as simply by-products of a contact sport is, IMO, lazy and inaccurate. Similarly, to cite the brutality meted out by some NZ sides against some players doth not them a thuggish side make, but I'd say that they have tendencies towards it (BOD on the Lions tour being another example) that are not in evidence among other teams. I'd also say that their MUFC-like ability to overawe match officials gives them more latitude in this area than most other teams.


 
Isn't the self-image as "hard but fair" mainly a comparison to the other historically dominant side, South Africa, the only team New Zealanders regard as almost a peer? And a side who have over the years been pretty much synonymous with violent shenanigans.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 27, 2012)

NZ have always had that thuggish side, look at Colin Meads for example, and the BOD example was notable for the whole country ganging up on the Lions.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 27, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Isn't the self-image as "hard but fair" mainly a comparison to the other historically dominant side, South Africa, the only team New Zealanders regard as almost a peer? And a side who have over the years been pretty much synonymous with violent shenanigans.



Yeah. I'd say that the Saffas are more consistently dirty than the ABs, and that their whole, bulldozer style of play lends itself to this. I'd say that NZ are prone to 'outbreaks' and this either comes as a result of their finding themselves on the back foot and not liking it much, e.g. the Llanelli match, or as the result of calculated and premeditated decisions to take key players out of the game, such as BOD in the first test and, IMO, Bradley on Saturday (very, very New Zealand). The Boers tend to just do violence because that's what they do.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 27, 2012)

I would have the Boks down as a tough physical side, but the examples on this thread from the kiwis are just cheap shots.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 28, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> NZ have always had that thuggish side, look at Colin Meads for example, and the BOD example was notable for the whole country ganging up on the Lions.


This happens for every Lions tour, no matter watch country it's in tbf


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> So, English posters, Freddie Burns: great white hope or Saes jizz totem? Being talked up in anticipation of Saturdays game, which of course you'll comfortably lose.


He's an exciting prospect but not the finished article, which is why he's only just getting called up with Flood injured. If I'd compare him to anyone it would be Cipriani but seemingly without off the field crap he has. Just wait and see how he turns out


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I would have the Boks down as a tough physical side, but the examples on this thread from the kiwis are just cheap shots.



Hmmm. It was a bit more than tough and physical in the second Lions test. I've never seen a more brutal match in the modern game, and it wasn't all legal.

E2A: thank fuck Ronan was there, mind


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> He's an exciting prospect but not the finished article, which is why he's only just getting called up with Flood injured. If I'd compare him to anyone it would be Cipriani but seemingly without off the field crap he has. Just wait and see how he turns out



I'm uncomfortable with the notion of an exciting running 10 from England. Makes me feel all weird. That's why I was so ecstatic with Tranny's implosion


----------



## gabi (Nov 28, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I would have the Boks down as a tough physical side, but the examples on this thread from the kiwis are just cheap shots.


 
For balance, Richie McCaw is probably the most beaten up player in rugby. Granted it's usually saffas and aussies trying to break his face/legs/arms, but the frogs had a pretty good go at his eyes in the WC final.

Anyway. As previously said, of course this site is gonna be totally biased towards the home nations sides. I accept that


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 28, 2012)

fwiw gabi, I've never seen th AB's as a dirty team, no more then anyone else - then again I havent seen as much rugby as most on this thread.  However, they do seem to have the occasional individual discipline meltdown unlike the low level constant bending (breaking) of the rules like England's forwards did for years.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2012)

gabi said:


> For balance, Richie McCaw is probably the most beaten up player in rugby. Granted it's usually saffas and aussies trying to break his face/legs/arms, but the frogs had a pretty good go at his eyes in the WC final.


 
Well, there has to be some comeback for his constantly illegal play, and if the refs ain't gonna do it.......


----------



## flypanam (Nov 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Well, there has to be some comeback for his constantly illegal play, and if the refs ain't gonna do it.......


 
Quade Cooper will!


----------



## flypanam (Nov 28, 2012)

Hore the seal killing wanker got 5 weeks. Dunno if its enough or not.


----------



## gabi (Nov 28, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Well, there has to be some comeback for his constantly illegal play, and if the refs ain't gonna do it.......



Do you really thin McCaw is constantly breaking the rules? I thought you knew a thing or two about rugby. He's a master of not quite breaking the rules. I'm sure it drives refs just as crazy as it does his opponents.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2012)

gabi said:


> Do you really thin McCaw is constantly breaking the rules? I thought you knew a thing or two about rugby. He's a master of not quite breaking the rules. I'm sure it drives refs just as crazy as it does his opponents.


 
Yes, I do, and I think he gets more latitude than his peers in this regard, as does his team.

To avoid the possibility of any equivocation here, here's a useful video:


----------



## bendeus (Nov 28, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Hore the seal killing wanker got 5 weeks. Dunno if its enough or not.


 
Not. at least 7 weeks not.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 29, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Hore has been cited. So far, so good. Now comes the hearing and, hopefully, the very lengthy ban. We await with bated breath another high-profile test of the IRBs authority and credibility that they are almost bound to fail



Well, well, well. Turns out that the five week ban also includes three pre-season matches for the Highlanders. so, as a result of an assault on a player on the pitch that would have landed him in hot water with the law, should they have chosen to take jurisdiction over the event, he will miss a grand total of two matches.

Once more the IRB bottle it, the fucking bunch of weaselly cowards, and essentially condone the type of behaviour on the pitch that could easily lead to serious injury.

Question: if he wasn't an AB, do people think that the sentence would have been as lenient?

Apparently he had an 8 match (still too little IMO) ban reduced to five because he was really, really sowwy, and because he doesn't have previous for knocking people out from behind. This is fucking bullshit: no mitigation - minimum tariff should be exactly that.

I hate the IRB. They are destroying our sport.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 29, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Well, well, well. Turns out that the five week ban also includes three pre-season matches for the Highlanders. so, as a result of an assault on a player on the pitch that would have landed him in hot water with the law, should they have chosen to take jurisdiction over the event, he will miss a grand total of two matches.
> 
> Once more the IRB bottle it, the fucking bunch of weaselly cowards, and essentially condone the type of behaviour on the pitch that could easily lead to serious injury.
> 
> ...


 
It could always be worse, it could be run by FIFA!

Also, IRB player of the year nominations are....

McCaw, Carter, Michalak and.... Farrell. How he is nominated I don't know. Lobbe should easily be on there instead of him and I think personally should win it the way he's led the Argies this year.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 29, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> It could always be worse, it could be run by FIFA!
> 
> Also, IRB player of the year nominations are....
> 
> McCaw, Carter, Michalak and.... Farrell. How he is nominated I don't know. Lobbe should easily be on there instead of him and I think personally should win it the way he's led the Argies this year.



Lobbe absolutely. Michaelak? WTF?

England's second choice fly half is obviously one of the four best players in the world ATM. Nice of them to inform us. From the home nations I'd have gone for Lydiate, Cole, Grey, North, Bowe and O'Gara before even thinking about the people I'd be thinking about before I'd be thinking about Andy's son.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 29, 2012)

Owen Farrell aint even the best player in his family. Disgrace.

Does Freddie get the nomination based on his two or three games for France this year or the fact that the Sharks lost the super rugby final?

Agreed Lobbe stand head and sholder above the others. Fuck McCaw, what has he got on the IRB?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 29, 2012)

Maybe we might have a chance of winning now 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20537967


----------



## gabi (Nov 29, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Fuck McCaw, what has he got on the IRB?


 
In what sense..? Do you not think he should have been nominated? He seems the most obvious candidate to me. Like him or not. Even the saffa coach said recently he's the finest player he's ever seen. Probably why he instructs his own players to try to disable him.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 29, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Lobbe absolutely. Michaelak? WTF?


 
Agreed on Lobbe. 

As for Michoko, if the AIs are anything to go by, he is a different player from the one which left for the Sharks last year.  Perhaps he's nominated for his performances in Super Rugby?  Genuine question - didn't follow his career after he moved what with me not being able to stand the guy.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 29, 2012)

The Boy said:


> Agreed on Lobbe.
> 
> As for Michoko, if the AIs are anything to go by, he is a different player from the one which left for the Sharks last year. Perhaps he's nominated for his performances in Super Rugby? Genuine question - didn't follow his career after he moved what with me not being able to stand the guy.


 
He wasn't considered a stand out player in Super Rugby really but nobody could say his time there was particularly bad. SR is just way ahead of NH rugby. He's been great in the AIs but 3 matches doesn't make up the whole year


----------



## flypanam (Nov 29, 2012)

gabi said:


> In what sense..? Do you not think he should have been nominated? He seems the most obvious candidate to me. Like him or not. Even the saffa coach said recently he's the finest player he's ever seen. Probably why he instructs his own players to try to disable him.


 
Just frustrated that he seems to be nomiated every bloody year. Agree he is fantastic. NZ would not be half the team without him.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 29, 2012)

Paul Rees has obviously been reading my posts on Urban:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/nov/29/the-breakdown-wales-pay-price-money-first


----------



## gabi (Nov 29, 2012)

just seen this on the gruniad too. some of these almost gave me the shits.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 29, 2012)

yeah, quite a few of them are players making no attempt to tackle, they may as well have their hands in their pockets.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 29, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> yeah, quite a few of them are players making no attempt to tackle, they may as well have their hands in their pockets.


Welcome to Samoa


----------



## 1927 (Nov 29, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> yeah, quite a few of them are players making no attempt to tackle, they may as well have their hands in their pockets.


 
Thing is, a lot of those were hard, many of them illegal and dangerous, but the ref had discretion as to what action he took, Then look at sam's tackle in RWC semi and altho it wasnt dangerous, ref had no alternative but to send him off. law needs looking at.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 29, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> He wasn't considered a stand out player in Super Rugby really but nobody could say his time there was particularly bad. SR is just way ahead of NH rugby. He's been great in the AIs but 3 matches doesn't make up the whole year


 
Indeed, that's why I was asking.  Seems to just be a very odd choice then.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 29, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> He wasn't considered a stand out player in Super Rugby really but nobody could say his time there was particularly bad. SR is just way ahead of NH rugby.


Even the HC?. The SR rugbt I've seen seems to be boring matches with questionable reffing in half empty stadiums.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 29, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Even the HC?. The SR rugbt I've seen seems to be boring matches with questionable reffing in half empty stadiums.



SH reffing is diabolical in the main. It is inimical to the style of play favoured in the north. Why the fuck we have to put up with their idiots officiating the AIs when we have plenty of idiots of our own, who understand, at least, how our teams play, is baffling


----------



## gabi (Nov 29, 2012)

Jesus. Get over it bendeus.

People enjoy a free-flowing game these days. You're stuck in the fucking xenophobic 70s, complete with a weird hatred of attacking rugby.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 29, 2012)

gabi said:


> Jesus. Get over it bendeus.
> 
> People enjoy a free-flowing game these days. You're stuck in the fucking xenophobic 70s, complete with a weird hatred of attacking rugby.


 
What people? I rather like the contest for the ball at the breakdown as well as the set pieces.  If free-flowing rugby was the only thing I was interested in, I would watch league.


----------



## gabi (Nov 29, 2012)

Well. Keep losing by 30 points then. I hope you find that enjoyable too.

NZ get reffed by NH refs and still  boot arse, against everyone up here except the French. I think it's you lot that needs to change, not us.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 30, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Even the HC?. The SR rugbt I've seen seems to be boring matches with questionable reffing in half empty stadiums.


 
I would say half of the SR teams are better than any HC club. I think they should have some sort of league style World Club Challange, where the winner of both play each other in a neutral stadium like Hong Kong, New York or Dubai. I think that would make people see the difference.

I would also say that the ITM Cup is better to watch than the English Premiership, even though All Blacks don't play in it (unless coming back from injury or just not in the squad at the time). The standard of skills are much higher outside the rucks, mauls and set pieces. Rugby is moving on and the ABs are showing where it's going imo.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Well. Keep losing by 30 points then. I hope you find that enjoyable too.
> 
> NZ get reffed by NH refs and still boot arse, against everyone up here except the French. I think it's you lot that needs to change, not us.


 
I'm fine with my lot beating you every second world cup, ta.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Jesus. Get over it bendeus.
> 
> People enjoy a free-flowing game these days. You're stuck in the fucking xenophobic 70s, complete with a weird hatred of attacking rugby.



No doubt you were all in favour of the Aussies' attempts to depower the scrum as well. Fuck the rules of the game eh, bru, it's all about attracting more dimwitted, know-nothings to the sport.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Jesus. Get over it bendeus.
> 
> People enjoy a free-flowing game these days. You're stuck in the fucking xenophobic 70s, complete with a weird hatred of attacking rugby.



Oh, and xenophobic? SH refs are shit in the main. So are Scottish ones, FWIW. I'm all for equal opps when it comes to my bile.

E2A: in fact, I don't know where to start. You appear to have constructed an enormous pile of erroneous ordure and I can't be bothered to reach for my shovel.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

The Boy said:


> I'm fine with my lot beating you every second world cup, ta.



You'd have improved that ratio with a ref whose plughole water spins the right way during the last WC final, IMO.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> I would say half of the SR teams are better than any HC club. I think they should have some sort of league style World Club Challange, where the winner of both play each other in a neutral stadium like Hong Kong, New York or Dubai. I think that would make people see the difference.
> 
> I would also say that the ITM Cup is better to watch than the English Premiership, even though All Blacks don't play in it (unless coming back from injury or just not in the squad at the time). The standard of skills are much higher outside the rucks, mauls and set pieces. Rugby is moving on and the ABs are showing where it's going imo.



And you actually want this? Having a strong set piece and fair competition at the breakdown doesn't preclude decent attacking rugby. As The Boy says, maybe we should replace flankers with props, reduce the XV to XIII and be done with it.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> And you actually want this? Having a strong set piece and fair competition at the breakdown doesn't preclude decent attacking rugby. As The Boy says, maybe we should replace flankers with props, reduce the XV to XIII and be done with it.


Yeh I want this but it doesn't mean there is no place for a good flanker at the breakdown when it happens. I mean why else would everyone in NZ love McCaw so much?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Yeh I want this but it doesn't mean there is no place for a good flanker at the breakdown when it happens. I mean why else would everyone in NZ love McCaw so much?



I said fair competition, not McCawball


----------



## gabi (Nov 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Oh, and xenophobic? SH refs are shit in the main. So are Scottish ones, FWIW. I'm all for equal opps when it comes to my bile.


 
Where, out of interest, do the non-shit refs come from? The fucking valleys by any chance?


----------



## gabi (Nov 30, 2012)

Ah well. at least Hore's issued a complete apology. God knows what was going through his head.



> Suit pressed, shoes shined, eyes wide open - Hore took a deep breath in a bid to relieve his anxiety before taking a seat just a few feet in front of the gathered New Zealand media.
> 
> "I want to say how bad I feel and how embarrassed I am to be in this situation," he said.
> 
> ...


----------



## 1927 (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Ah well. at least Hore's issued a complete apology. God knows what was going through his head.


 
how dull are you not to realsie that this was only done to get a reduced sentence. ffs


----------



## 1927 (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Where, out of interest, do the non-shit refs come from? The fucking valleys by any chance?


 
well in all honesty Nigel Owens is one of the better refs around.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 30, 2012)

1927 said:


> well in all honesty Nigel Owens is one of the better refs around.


 
Unless you're French


----------



## flypanam (Nov 30, 2012)

Digression alert*

Gabi just so the Horrors don't get overlooked this year check out http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...2012-the-polls-are-open.302782/#post-11748360

Digression over

All refs got shit presents from Santa, that is why they are refs.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

1927 said:


> well in all honesty Nigel Owens is one of the better refs around.


Munster agree wholeheartedly with you.


----------



## gabi (Nov 30, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Digression alert*
> 
> Gabi just so the Horrors don't get overlooked this year check out http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...2012-the-polls-are-open.302782/#post-11748360
> 
> ...


 
No fucking idea why you're cross-posting from a music thread but the level of desperation to distract from the discussion of the quality of rugger being played up here doesnt surprise me tbh  

pssst.. the horrors didnt put a record out this year


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Nov 30, 2012)

1927 said:


> well in all honesty Nigel Owens is one of the better refs around.


I think he's shit tbh


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> No fucking idea why you're cross-posting from a music thread but the level of desperation to distract from *the discussion of the quality of rugger being played up here* doesnt surprise me tbh


 
Do you read anything into the fact that, of the eight tier 1 and 2 SH/NH clashes during the WC (i.e. when our players weren't distracted by domestic and European rugby, and were in their straps at the end of their season) the results went 5-3 to the SH sides, with three of those victories being by a single point, i.e. it could quite easily have been 6-2 to the NH?

What do you think this means, especially given the fact that the matches were played in the SH?


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Where, out of interest, do the non-shit refs come from? The fucking valleys by any chance?


 
Have I ever stated that NH refs are 'non-shit'? What I said related to an interpretation of the laws that favours teams from one hemisphere over the other. I can't quite work out why we have to endure SH interpretations of the setpiece and breakdown (plus massive and well-recorded All Black manlove from Joubert) up here, with all the disadvantages to our style of play that this brings.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

gabi said:


> Ah well. at least Hore's issued a complete apology. *God knows what was going through his head*.


 
I'll hazard a guess: 

"I'll act on my coach/captain's [delete as necessary] instructions and take out their most physical second row knowing they have no specialist bench cover in that position."


----------



## 1927 (Nov 30, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'll hazard a guess:
> 
> "I'll act on my coach/captain's [delete as necessary] instructions and take out their most physical second row knowing they have no specialist bench cover in that position."


 
Youre bloody good as this guessing game lark!


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

Another injury. Lou 'Who?' Reed replaces Ian Evs at lock. That's an exploding clown car of a pack to face the Crims.

This match is as good an example as you'll find of the short-termist idiocy of the WRU. Flogging a dead horse the week before a HEC weekend just to pull in extra cash in order to pay the fucking mortgage faster. This AI series has been an absolute, unmitigated disaster.


----------



## bendeus (Nov 30, 2012)

Oh, an Os first-teamers injured on Wales duty now include: Adam, Jarvis, Hibbard, AWJ, Ian Evs and Biggar (though he's mostly recovered). This adds to the season that our best strike runner, Hanno Dirksen, will be spending on the sidelines.

We're fucked for the HEC, and for everything else for that matter.


----------



## The Octagon (Dec 1, 2012)

Good start from England, helped by Carter not having his shooting boots on (yet)


----------



## The Octagon (Dec 1, 2012)

This is fantastic to watch


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 1, 2012)

Blimey. THis could be cited as proof that miracles do happen.......


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 1, 2012)

I think this deserves a wee celebratory drink!


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 1, 2012)

I enjoyed that.


----------



## The Octagon (Dec 1, 2012)

Limejuice said:


> I enjoyed that.



I might need to change my trousers I enjoyed that so much 

*hubris moment* Bring on the 6 Nations


----------



## ddraig (Dec 1, 2012)

and 
AGAIN!


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 1, 2012)

We can draw some positives. Yes we lost but that's the best we've played all series. The highlight of my rugby weekend is knowing that smug smile on hansens face will have slipped somewhat. Well done England from what I'm reading an immense performance.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 1, 2012)

as much as wales will be disappointed to have slipped into 3rd tier (a joke by the way of the rankings) i gain satisfaction from knowing that for the next 3 years there will be 2 teams shitting themsleves at the thought of having Wales in their group at RWC 2015,

can someone explain to me why the seeding and groups have to bed decided so far in advance? surely a more represnetative system would be to decide 12 months in advance.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm still hopeful for Wales this 6N. Our tough matches will be France away and Ireland at home... If we beat them we could be in for a thrilling grand slam decider finale at the millennium stadium.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 1, 2012)

1927 said:


> as much as wales will be disappointed to have slipped into 3rd tier (a joke by the way of the rankings) i gain satisfaction from knowing that for the next 3 years there will be 2 teams shitting themsleves at the thought of having Wales in their group at RWC 2015,
> 
> can someone explain to me why the seeding and groups have to bed decided so far in advance? surely a more represnetative system would be to decide 12 months in advance.



Yes it's weird. Bendeus will know the rationale I know.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 1, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> I'm still hopeful for Wales this 6N. Our tough matches will be France away and Ireland at home... If we beat them we could be in for a thrilling grand slam decider finale at the millennium stadium.


 if we had a decnet squad to pick from free of injuries we would still be a match for anyone n the NH, but with Howley in charge we will struglle to win the wopden spoon.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 1, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> Yes it's weird. Bendeus will know the rationale I know.


 
this is the IRB, there wont be a rationale.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 1, 2012)

1927 said:


> if we had a decnet squad to pick from free of injuries we would still be a match for anyone n the NH, but with Howley in charge we will struglle to win the wopden spoon.



The 6N is a couple of months away. Key players like Lydiate , North and Jones will be back . I'm more worried about halfpenny at this moment in time.


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 1, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> The 6N is a couple of months away. Key players like Lydiate , North and Jones will be back . I'm more worried about halfpenny at this moment in time.


 
That looked like an injury to be concerned about


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 1, 2012)

That was fucking incredible! I heard that there was a match on this afternoon, 1:30 start, on R4 at midday. So got in the shopping and went to the gym for 2.10, hoping to catch the end of the 1st half and all of the 2nd half whilst enjoying an awesome display of NZ rugby.

When I got there, I realised the *start* was an hour before kick-off. So I'd got 20 mins to go before kick-off. So got started, thinking I'd just plough through and do 2hrs of cardio instead of one.

And, just, fucking hell. I was properly expecting to see an All Blacks walk-over. But England were just all over them. The five-try burst in the second half was some of the most exciting rugby I can remember having seen.

Awesome stuff! And a genuine surprise. That accidentally led me to doing the hardest / longest bastard of a workout I've done in an age


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 3, 2012)

Wales have lost eight in a row, so I'm not sure the rankings are that wrong.


----------



## treefrog (Dec 3, 2012)

Not often an England win makes me  but that was pretty awesome.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 3, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> Wales have lost eight in a row, so I'm not sure the rankings are that wrong.



Two of these also against hitherto lower ranked opposition. Rankings about right atm.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 3, 2012)

anyone seen gabi since the weekend? is awfully quiet...

well done the sais, and an entertaining match to boot


----------



## The Boy (Dec 3, 2012)

Pingu said:


> anyone seen gabi since the weekend? is awfully quiet...


 
Off out celebrating his side showing the world of rugby how to play the game with yet another 30+ point victory.  Oh, wait...


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2012)

Well like everyone else I didnt see that England performance coming at all, I thought we would be competative but no chance of winning.  I don't know whether it was the virus or they just had a bad day but at times the AB's looked a bit ordinary, fair play to them for fronting up and not blaming all the illness they've had. 

Whilst the end score looks impressive I think it could have easily gone the other way, the Barritt try was the turning point.  After getting it back to 15-14 if NZ then secure the re-start and get the ball back down England's end then it could have been a different story, instead some schoolboy defending followed by 10 minutes of madness.  All good stuff though. 

Tough on Wales that result but at least its good to see Halfpenny is out of hospital and hopefully that isnt as bad as it looked.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 3, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Whilst the end score looks impressive I think it could have easily gone the other way, the Barritt try was the turning point. After getting it back to 15-14 if NZ then secure the re-start and get the ball back down England's end then it could have been a different story, instead some schoolboy defending followed by 10 minutes of madness. All good stuff though.
> .


 

^^ this too

i satthere thinking "dont write the ABs off so easily" and then it was 15:14. Nice composure from england tough they could so easily have bottled it. some very nice fast ball through ands by the Abs too


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 3, 2012)

Just got around to watch the England match. Wow! Biggest ever winning margin against them. We didn't play that bad in the other games we lost either. Against SA the only difference was one of the luckiest tries I've ever seen and with better decision making we would of drawn against Aus.

And how Wales lost that, I just don't know...

Obligatory post-AIs Lions match day squad. Some based on performance, some on reputation and some just because I don't have a clue who else to put there 

1. Cole (Eng)
2. Strauss (Ire)
3. Ross (Ire)
4. Gray (Sco)
5. Ryan (Ire)
6. Wood (Eng)
7. Tuperic (Wal)
8. Faletau (Wal)
9. Care (Eng)
10. Sexton (Ire)
11. North (Wal)
12. Tuilagi (Eng)
13. Davies (Wal)
14. Gilroy (Ire)
15. Halfpenny (Wal)

16. Healey (Ire)
17. T Youngs (Eng)
18. Murray (Sco)
19. Launchbury (Eng)
20. Heaslip (Ire)
21. Murray (Ire)
22. Farrell (Eng)
23. Bowe (Ire)

7 England
9 Ireland
5 Wales
2 Scotland


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2012)

I'm not going to bother with Lions stuff until after the 6N.  Virtually every one of Wales' grand slam winning forwards were either injured before or during the last few weeks, so I'm going to wait until they are back playing and have got some form.    But really if you were going to pick off the Autumn internationals alone then the pack should be dominated by English forwards, especially the front row because I think they got the better of all the SH teams in the scrum.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 3, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Just got around to watch the England match. Wow! Biggest ever winning margin against them. We didn't play that bad in the other games we lost either. Against SA the only difference was one of the luckiest tries I've ever seen and with better decision making we would of drawn against Aus.
> 
> And how Wales lost that, I just don't know...
> 
> ...



If Gatland's picking there is no way on God's earth that Spikey won't be in the XXII


----------



## bendeus (Dec 3, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I'm not going to bother with Lions stuff until after the 6N.  Virtually every one of Wales' grand slam winning forwards were either injured before or during the last few weeks, so I'm going to wait until they are back playing and have got some form.    But really if you were going to pick off the Autumn internationals alone then the pack should be dominated by English forwards, especially the front row because I think they got the better of all the SH teams in the scrum.


Cole (who I think is quality) was embarrassed against the Aussies. Doesn't look good for him vis a vis a tour over there, tbh. I think Adam might shade it.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 3, 2012)

From the BBC website, a lot of different choices. Think only Gray and Sexton have been choses by all of them.



> *Jeremy Guscott's team: *R Kearney (Ire), T Visser (Sco), B O'Driscoll (Ire), M Tuilagi (Eng), G North (Wal); J Sexton (Ire), D Care (Eng); C Healy (Ire), R Best (Ire), A Jones (Wal), R Gray (Sco), G Parling (Eng), T Croft (Eng), S Armitage (Eng), D Denton (Sco).
> *Keith Wood's team: *L Halfpenny (Wal), T Bowe (Ire), M Tuilagi (Eng), B O Driscoll (Ire), G North (Wal); J Sexton (Ire), B Youngs (Eng); C Healy (Ire), R Best (Ire), A Jones (Wal), R Gray (Sco), C Lawes (Eng), S Ferris (Ire), S Warburton (Wal), S O'Brien (Ire).
> *Andy Nicol's team: *A Goode (Eng), T Bowe (Ire), M Tuilagi (Eng), J Roberts (Wal), T Visser (Sco); J Sexton (Ire), B Youngs (Eng); G Jenkins (Wal), D Hartley (Eng), D Cole (Eng), R Gray (Sco), C Lawes (Eng), S Ferris (Ire), S O'Brien (Ire), T Faletau (Wal).
> *Jonathan Davies's team: *R Kearney (Ire), T Bowe (Ire), J Davies (Wal), B O Driscoll (Ire), G North (Wal); J Sexton (Ire), D Care (Eng); C Healy (Ire), D Hartley (Eng), A Jones (Wal), R Gray (Sco), AW Jones (Wal), D Lydiate (Wal), S Warburton (Wal), J Heaslip (Ire).


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Cole (who I think is quality) was embarrassed against the Aussies. Doesn't look good for him vis a vis a tour over there, tbh. I think Adam might shade it.


 
Of course, but I was basing it soley on the Autumn Internationals. I think tighthead is a position of strength for the Lions and I can't see any of the Irish front row getting the nod to be honest.

I don't think Cole was embarrased, he didnt have a great game but I don't think his cause is helped by Alex Corb constantly wheeling the scrum by not scrummaging straight.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 3, 2012)

France, Italy, Europe 2 and Americas.

Great group for Ireland though we have to win it.

Wales, Australia and England. Group of death/mirth?


----------



## Balbi (Dec 3, 2012)

Bring it Welshies


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2012)

Meh, I think its better to have competative matches from the off, gets you battle hardened.  Its in a couple of years and its in England, I fancy both England and Wales to cruise through that group.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 3, 2012)

gabi.. last seen in wilkinsons buying a packet of razor blades


----------



## 1927 (Dec 3, 2012)

the thing about deciding the rgoups so early, is that they actually mean nothing right now.of course the ABs will still be good, or atleast conning referees and getting away with murder, them aside there is no real knowing whether the groups are strong or not. Will the ARgies maintain their top 8 position, will Italy have kicked on to challenge Ireland and France?

I am quite happy with Aussies and the Saes, we are as good as both of not better on our day.

Dont forget if we hadnt got to the semi of the last world cup and lost both games after the group stages we would not have been 9th, the rankings are a joke and need to be looked at. Atleast at the RWc 2015 we have the chance to beat England, and if we dont go onto win it will still have been a great tournament!


----------



## bendeus (Dec 3, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Bring it Welshies



We will, Ruperts! In ffycin' shovels


----------



## The Boy (Dec 3, 2012)

Not sure about that group, tbh.  Italy should still be very much beatable but, as 1927 points out, it's impossible to know what the relative strengths of Ire and Fra will be come 2015.  Depends who the two qualifiers will be too - Georgia would be the sort of banana skin that all of the 6N countries could probably do without.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 4, 2012)

Stop moaning about the rankings. You only won ONE tier 1 nation in the whole of the WC and lost 3 matches in it 

I'm happy with Aus and Wales, will be a competitive group


----------



## bendeus (Dec 4, 2012)

Aye. We're where we are because we didn't take our chances. Five losses to Aus by a total of, what 10-odd points over all the games. If rugby lasted for 79 minutes we'd be second rather than ninth  

As it is we'll get the opportunity to ensure that either Orcs or Crims don't qualify for the knockout stages. S'good.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 4, 2012)

Wales are clearly in a false position in the rankings but it matters not it is what it is, anyway having an 'easy' group doesnt mean anything really look at England last time around, you get rolled by the first half decent team you play.

I wasnt joking when I said I fancy England and Wales to get through, particuarly if they can swing it so Wales get a couple of home matches at the mil stad and England get the crims at Twick. 

Fair play here to Roger Lewis for an early balls out pitch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20587821

Nothing wrong in principle with that of course, the England v Wales, Wales v Aus and Eng v Aus games are 3 of the 4 or 5 biggest games in the first round they should all be played at the biggest and best stadiums which is Mil stad, Twick and Wembley.  Mind, I can't see the suits at the RFU liking the idea of having to play Wales in Wales at a world cup England is supposdly hosting.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 4, 2012)

If England play Wales in Cardiff, you'd never hear the end of it. Apparently the unions have no say where it is played, only the official WC organisers. Fair enough if England had to play there for QFs after coming 2nd in the group (like France did) but one of the reasons teams bid for WC is for home advantage!


----------



## bendeus (Dec 4, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> Wales are clearly in a false position in the rankings but it matters not it is what it is, anyway having an 'easy' group doesnt mean anything really look at England last time around, you get rolled by the first half decent team you play.
> 
> I wasnt joking when I said I fancy England and Wales to get through, particuarly if they can swing it so Wales get a couple of home matches at the mil stad and England get the crims at Twick.
> 
> ...



Surely it's just a case of Roger asking for something he knows he'll never get in order to get something he thinks he might, e.g. Aus at home.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 4, 2012)

It's been made quite clear that this WC is about making lots of money, so Wales will get all the other pool games at home


----------



## bendeus (Dec 4, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> It's been made quite clear that this WC is about making lots of money, so Wales will get all the other pool games at home


Australia and Fiji at the MS. What could possibly go wrong


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 4, 2012)

Well the aussies would love it, so it gets my vote.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm gonna throw in my tuppence worth by saying the aussies will get knocked out at the pool stage.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 5, 2012)

Lydiate the latest to be heading to France. Racing, apparently. So that's Roberts, Charteris, Gethin, Lydiate, Spikey and Hook from the optimal XXII who will be plying their trade Frogside, and with more to come, no doubt.

It's like '88 all over again, but with Chateaubriand instead of black pudding 

Oh, and we'll lose to Oz but beat the Saes


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 7, 2012)

I see Rowntree, Farrell and Howley have been added to the lions coaching team.  Any guesses for which two countries will be supplying the bulk of the lions squad?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I see Rowntree, Farrell and Howley have been added to the lions coaching team.  Any guesses for which two countries will be supplying the bulk of the lions squad?


How the fuck can Stan have been drafted in if he's supposed to be coaching Wales as well? There will be a development tour that summer so who in hell is going to lead it? The ghost of fucking Carwyn? Lions will fuck Wales proper, just like it always does


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

Oh, and by the by, it looks like Chavin is dating Jordan 

I guess it was always going to happen at some point 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-price-spotted-on-date-with-gavin-henson.html


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> How the fuck can Stan have been drafted in if he's supposed to be coaching Wales as well? There will be a development tour that summer so who in hell is going to lead it? The ghost of fucking Carwyn? Lions will fuck Wales proper, just like it always does


 
I'd thought you would have pleased if it keeps him away from the Welsh set-up.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> I'd thought you would have pleased if it keeps him away from the Welsh set-up.


I'm one of those masochistic souls who think he should still be in the Welsh setup, Teaboy 

E2A: got mixed up. Thought you were replying to the Chavin post. Yes, Stan being as far away from the national side is good. How the fuck he's with the Lions on anything approaching merit is a mystery.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

We're up against it tonight. I would love it if we do the saints. Just love it.

Come on Ruan them boys!


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

Power and guile...

Northampton 'much vaunted' pack pushed around. Great try.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Power and guile...
> 
> Northampton 'much vaunted' pack pushed around. Great try.


Couldn't happen to a nicer team. The gouger, the elbow breaker, the swan diver and the cheap shotter all in one, odious unit.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

'Kinell, Connacht currently beating Biarritz. That would be a fuck of a result if they can hold on.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

Go, Ireland!


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

Payne leaves 'Foden for dead'

J-O-Y


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

Afoa is worth his weight in gold. The scrum in the first half on our 5 meter line and then his ability to keep players of the ground.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Go, Ireland!


 
I had to check that twice!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 7, 2012)

Ulster are looking good. i like Henderson. How shit is Foden though?.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Go, Ireland!


I knew you'd come around eventually.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

Lawes running upright into contact. D'oh.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

Hartley should get cited for the punch on Best. Worra dirty cunt.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 7, 2012)

Bonus point win.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 7, 2012)

Connacht winning too


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

flypanam said:


> I had to check that twice!


Ah, I can afford to be generous looking up from the third tier 

In fairness, my beef was always with Munster and, by association, Ireland, when Muhnner players and tactics dominated. What can you say about Ladyboys and, now, Ulcer? Fucking brilliant sides playing beautiful, heads up rygbi. No issue with the emerging Irish side at all. And after all, you're a winsome and friendly lot.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I knew you'd come around eventually.


Your patience should see you canonised.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Hartley should get cited for the punch on Best. Worra dirty cunt.


The gouger should be cited for drawing breath


----------



## bendeus (Dec 7, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Bonus point win.


Thumbs


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 8, 2012)

Utterly sensational wins last night.
The Ulster game was a belter.  They came with their tails up, and if not for a few forward passes and wonky lineouts would have trebled that scoreline.
Felt Gilroy was a little hard done by, by my goodness- they totally dominated Northampton
Hope Harley gets cited for that punch.

One one undefeated team in the northern hemisphere, doing it for Nevin.

Really hope Ulster win the Heineken cup this year.


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 8, 2012)

Also- credit to Connacht for turning over former Heineken Cup finalists Biarritz, really shows how well they've come on.

Have a lot of anxiety about tonight.
On paper, I imagine bookies are already paying out on bets for Sarries, however- to the brave and faithful etc.

I still remember the Miracle Match!

_ALLEZ LES ROUGES!!! _


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> Also- credit to Connacht for turning over former Heineken Cup finalists Biarritz, really shows how well they've come on.
> 
> Have a lot of anxiety about tonight.
> On paper, I imagine bookies are already paying out on bets for Sarries, however- to the brave and faithful etc.
> ...


How long do you think is realistic before Muhnner return to their former position as the preeminent Irish side?

E2A: I ask because a couple of years back you'd have swaggered into a match like this with all the insouciance of the anointed, and more likely than not you'd have come away with a BP victory to boot


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 8, 2012)

The difference is- that was at a time when the other Irish teams were offering nothing but broken dreams.
The current position is hugely embarrassing because it feels like we're the only gun that isn't firing.

This current Leinster team remind me of Munster in c. 2002
We blew a few HC finals, but our squad was about at that level of cohesion and maturity.

This current Ulster team remind me of Munster c. 1999
younger, full of enthusiasm, a never say die attitude etc

It's not just a case of reminding Connacht they're our feeder club and taking their first XV to become 'development players', they're capable of winning things on their own.  
They don't need to come to Munster.  We have good players, not all young.  We have young players, not all good.

This current Munster team remind me of Gloucester c. 2005, with enough competent players, and 'mercurial' (copywright James Simpson-Daniel), we might be top of the table by Christmas, but once the Leicester team return from England duty, we'll let them have their league back. 

As it is, we're not even top of the table.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> doing it for Nevin.


 
Well said


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Well said


seconded


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> The difference is- that was at a time when the other Irish teams were offering nothing but broken dreams.
> The current position is hugely embarrassing because it feels like we're the only gun that isn't firing.
> 
> This current Leinster team remind me of Munster in c. 2002
> ...


 
Ah well, at least you're not Welsh, eh?


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 8, 2012)

If Cardiff had won the inaugural HC final, would it all have been a different story?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

Red Faction said:


> If Cardiff had won the inaugural HC final, would it all have been a different story?



Doubt it. The canker is in the bones. If they'd won the other year when knocked out on penalties it wouldn't have made a difference. The problem is structural


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> How long do you think is realistic before Muhnner return to their former position as the preeminent Irish side?
> 
> E2A: I ask because a couple of years back you'd have swaggered into a match like this with all the insouciance of the anointed, and more likely than not you'd have come away with a BP victory to boot


They've lost a lot of good operators over the last few years and are having a bit of an identity crisis. I wouldn't bet against them today though.


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 8, 2012)

sleaterkinney said:


> I wouldn't bet against them today though.


 
True, but if you like your money, you wouldn't necessarily bet on them either


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 8, 2012)

The ref in the Munster game is silly, everything a free kick


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 8, 2012)

He's really getting on my nerves, however- if he keeping pinging their lineout i'll let him be


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 8, 2012)

Well Owen Farrell, that performance might be good enough to beat the All Blacks, but it won't be good enough to beat Munster...


----------



## flypanam (Dec 12, 2012)

He badly wants to rep the USA in the Rio olympics, he knows he won't make it as a sprinter, so he takes up rugby, and aims to play 7's in Rio.

He'll be in the Leinster back line in a year.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 12, 2012)

Hopefully he won't end up like Dwayne Chambers when he "went" to League.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Hopefully he won't end up like Dwayne Chambers when he "went" to League.


This guy has already played american football quite successfully at high school though, so isn't afraid of contact. Where as Chambers failed at american football, then failed at league.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 13, 2012)

flypanam said:


> He badly wants to rep the USA in the Rio olympics, he knows he won't make it as a sprinter, so he takes up rugby, and aims to play 7's in Rio.
> 
> He'll be in the Leinster back line in a year.




No, he won't. Look at Alex Cuthbert; wonderful raw skillz but no idea of defensive positioning or how to read the game. The idea that you can reprogramme a magnificent specimen and turn him into a rugby player is fantasy. The reason the ABs are so fucking good is that they can understand what the ball is doing before the ball does it. He might make a sevens player, because frequently raw skillz is all you need (and I speak as a representative of the current world champions), but a XVs player? Doubt it. I could be wrong but I don't reckon I am.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 13, 2012)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> This guy has already played american football quite successfully at high school though, so isn't afraid of contact. Where as Chambers failed at american football, then failed at league.



What does successful American Football have to do with a promising career in elite rygbi, if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 13, 2012)

bendeus said:


> No, he won't. Look at Alex Cuthbert; wonderful raw skillz but no idea of defensive positioning or how to read the game. The idea that you can reprogramme a magnificent specimen and turn him into a rugby player is fantasy. The reason the ABs are so fucking good is that they can understand what the ball is doing before the ball does it. He might make a sevens player, because frequently raw skillz is all you need (and I speak as a representative of the current world champions), but a XVs player? Doubt it. I could be wrong but I don't reckon I am.


He doesn't want to play XVs as far as I'm aware. He just wants to represent the US at the Olympics.



bendeus said:


> What does successful American Football have to do with a promising career in elite rygbi, if you don't mind me asking?


They are quite similar sports, so it gives him a head start compared to someone who switched from just sprinting.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Dec 13, 2012)

> "I believe there is a solution whereby the top four [of the Pro 12] would go through to a new primary competition and the next two sides going through would be for example the best Scottish and best Italian teams. In terms of a compromise, this allows it to be a true European competition."


 
So, it could make sure all nations are represented, even if they don't finish in the top 6.

Looking at the table now, presuming it finished this way and a Rabo team didn't win a euro cup, the teams who would qualify are Ulster, Scarlets, Leinster, Munster, Glasgow and Treviso. If say Ulster won the H cup (none winning the A Cup because only 1 Rabo team in it) the teams qualifying would be Ulster, Scarlets, Leinster, Munster, Glasgow, Ospreys and Treviso.
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php




> "Together with the French, we're keen to make the case for a strengthening of both the Heineken Cup and the Amlin Challenge Cup. Two 20-team competitions, underpinned by a third tournament aimed at developing rugby nations like Russia and Georgia, Spain and Portugal… we believe very strongly in this and we'll push hard for it."


 
http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-c...?goback=.gmr_56610.gde_56610_member_195604380

From wiki:

The Heineken Cup would be reduced from 24 to 20 teams.
Six sides each would qualify from the Premiership, Top 14, and Pro12, based on league position. The remaining two Heineken Cup places would go to the nations that win the previous season's Heineken and Challenge Cups.
All remaining sides from the three leagues—a total of 18—would play in the Challenge Cup, which would remain at 20 teams.
A completely new third-tier competition would be launched, covering emerging European rugby nations such as Georgia, Portugal, Russia and Spain. The top two teams from this competition would take up the remaining two Challenge Cup places.
I dunno, but I kind of like this proposal now...
*Waits for everyone to disagree*


----------



## flypanam (Dec 13, 2012)

My gut reaction is that it will be a carve up in favour of the English and the French. The Scottish sides are well and truly fucked as are their national side.

But I will read more about it later, and have a better response.


----------



## flypanam (Dec 13, 2012)

Right read it, and didn't digest it. So i read the irish Times the only thing that sticks out is

"The English and French clubs are also demanding an equal three-way split in profits from European competitions with the Pro12 clubs. They currently share 52 per cent of funding, with the French and English receiving 24 per cent each. They are thus seeking a nine per cent increase"

I dunno but denying any national teams top players access to the HEC will a.Leave to the failed club losing players, so for Wales, Scotland, Italy and potentially ireland we could lose more players to England and France.

The follow on is that national teams will suffer with the exception of surprise, surprise England and France.

So I'm not a Irishman who espouses "Burn everything English but their coal" but this to me is horse shit. And I'm agin it!


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Dec 13, 2012)

There's nothing to like about it. It's the English and the French demanding an even bigger share of the money and a higher proportion of the qualification spots. That can only serve to further strengthen the countries with the biggest built in advantages in terms of population, player base and money and weaken the rest.

As an added bonus, it will mean that in any given year Scotland and Italy and in some years Ireland and Wales won't be able to pick a full national squad who are getting top level club rugby. Two HC teams is the absolute minimum a country requires to be able to do that.


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 13, 2012)

Awesomeness.

Jamaica could be rugby 7s world champions within my lifetime...


----------



## bendeus (Dec 13, 2012)

And meanwhile, the gouger gets 2 weeks for his attack on Best. Two. Fucking. Weeks. With his previous he should have been looking at a starting tariff of 5.

Slowly but surely and irrevocably, my faith in the game I love is being eroded by the cunts who run it.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2012)

This is really rather funny:

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5904.php


----------



## 1927 (Dec 14, 2012)

bendeus said:


> This is really rather funny:
> 
> http://www.ospreysrugby.com/news/5904.php


 
They might as well take their boots the way we are falling by the wayside this season. Go on Bendy you know you want to!


----------



## bendeus (Dec 14, 2012)

1927 said:


> They might as well take their boots the way we are falling by the wayside this season. Go on Bendy you know you want to!



There was a time when there was a place in the game for rotund, semi-alcoholics on the wrong side of thirty. Now, alas, things are different.


----------



## 1927 (Dec 15, 2012)

bendeus said:


> There was a time when there was a place in the game for rotund, semi-alcoholics on the wrong side of thirty. Now, alas, things are different.


 
About 15 places per team!


----------



## bendeus (Dec 15, 2012)

Os beating Toulouse, and Cheetahs losing to Treviso. This group is shaping up to be very, very interesting.

Eli Walker. Watch out for that name - looks like the Os have uncovered another absolute little gem at 11


----------



## 1927 (Dec 15, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Os beating Toulouse, and Cheetahs losing to Treviso. This group is shaping up to be very, very interesting.
> 
> Eli Walker. Watch out for that name - looks like the Os have uncovered another absolute little gem at 11


 
I know it wint do us any good in terms of getting out of group, but all things cinsidered thats a hell of a result for Os.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 15, 2012)

1927 said:


> I know it wint do us any good in terms of getting out of group, but all things cinsidered thats a hell of a result for Os.



Fucking Cheetahs!

Clermont doing a job on the Laydeez ATM. Could be seeing the holders going out.


----------



## The Boy (Dec 15, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Could be seeing the holders going out.


 
If it weren't for the losing BP I would say that was them out.  Still gonna be tough for them though.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 15, 2012)

The Boy said:


> If it weren't for the losing BP I would say that was them out.  Still gonna be tough for them though.


Fair dos, Clermont were awesome today. Laydeez lucky to get the BP. Their aggression and physicality were quite something. 

Sad that Ulcer choked against those scumbags. A win would have as good as done for them.


----------



## torquemad (Dec 16, 2012)

Fair play to the Hairsprays. Will make it all the more disappointing for their support (i.e. TV/ home-based as opposed to actually in the Hall Of Silence ) when Tigers chin them next month.

Oh, anddespite the best efforts of M.Rolland, Tigers scramble over the line at the death for a one-point win - not the first time Treviso have taken "better" teams the distance in recent years.

Quite fancy them (Treviso, that is)  to do Hairsprays, actually. Still.... wouldn't be the first time, eh?


----------



## torquemad (Dec 16, 2012)

And, sticking with the name changes, good to see the Chefs turning the ScaredLads over.

All is not well in the valleys.

Looks like the Hairsprays could well have competition for House of Silence/ TV Armchair Warriors title next season.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 16, 2012)

torquemad said:


> Fair play to the Hairsprays. Will make it all the more disappointing for their support (i.e. TV/ home-based as opposed to actually in the Hall Of Silence ) when Tigers chin them next month.
> 
> Oh, anddespite the best efforts of M.Rolland, Tigers scramble over the line at the death for a one-point win - not the first time Treviso have taken "better" teams the distance in recent years.
> 
> Quite fancy them (Treviso, that is)  to do Hairsprays, actually. Still.... wouldn't be the first time, eh?



Thought you'd flounced. 

Given the fact that in your last two meetings on their patch you've beaten them by a jaw-dropping combined total of six, last-gasp points I'd say that there is every chance they can turn us over, especially given our injuries. 

Treviso are a very competitive side on their home turf, as you've noticed.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 16, 2012)

torquemad said:


> And, sticking with the name changes, good to see the Chefs turning the ScaredLads over.
> 
> All is not well in the valleys.
> 
> Looks like the Hairsprays could well have competition for House of Silence/ TV Armchair Warriors title next season.



Exeter are a very decent side. Strong up front, which remains the Turkish Achilles heel. They are, in fact, a model of how to successfully run a competitive club that lives within its means; a lesson the Welsh sides would be wise to learn from in these straitened times.

You seem almost gleeful at the ongoing, slow demise of Welsh rugby. How nice.


----------



## torquemad (Dec 17, 2012)

_"Given the fact that in your last two meetings on their patch you've beaten them by a jaw-dropping combined total of six..."_

Six points you say? Exactly the margin by which they beat _the Hairsprays _iirc. Difference is the Tigers aggregate total of six points meant we left with a full set of points on both occasions. And Hairsprays? they left with nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero.__

As for me being_ "almost gleeful at the ongoing slow demise of Welsh rugby", _I think you may be confusing me with someone who cares. To put it another way, I care just about as much as the legions of armchair supporters who leave your lovely, shiny, new stadia embarrassingly empty week after week.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 17, 2012)

torquemad said:


> _"Given the fact that in your last two meetings on their patch you've beaten them by a jaw-dropping combined total of six..."_
> 
> Six points you say? Exactly the margin by which they beat _the Hairsprays _iirc. Difference is the Tigers aggregate total of six points meant we left with a full set of points on both occasions. And Hairsprays? they left with nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero.__



Hmmm. Have a look back at my post. I was agreeing with you. The point I thought I was making abundantly clear is that Treviso are capable of turning over any club on their home patch, including the Cheetahs. There is every chance we'll experience heavy weather out there. On the other hand It might also be worth pointing out that the Os lost their recent game out there in the Rabo - a league not known for its competitive edge - at the start of the season, a period that as a Tigers fan you should know full well sees even good sides starting slowly and being turned over. The HEC is the sternest test, and it may be better for us to chat after the event rather than speculate before it.



> As for me being_ "almost gleeful at the ongoing slow demise of Welsh rugby", _I think you may be confusing me with someone who cares. To put it another way, I care just about as much as the legions of armchair supporters who leave your lovely, shiny, new stadia embarrassingly empty week after week.



See, I actually do care. Wouldn't want to see any club, let alone nation, going through the kind of difficulties being experienced by Welsh sides at present, and that, believe it or not, even includes the Cheetahs (not that they're in any danger of extinction). It's myopic to think that what is becoming a reality on the periphery of the game is not going to spread, as the uneven influence of the T14 and AP begins to further cut into domestic competition in Scotland, Wales and, increasingly, NZ, Aus and SA. National sides start to struggle next, leading to decreased competitiveness at the top of the game and more revenue moving away from the periphery, thus exacerbating the existing inequalities. If you're happy for the 6N to be increasingly two-tier, and if you're happy for the HEC to be a two, possibly three, nation affair, then fine, and if you're happy for the game that I'm sure you love to become ever less multipolar then fine as well, but it marks you out as a bit of a twat, if you don't mind me saying.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 20, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I fear it could turn out even worse for the old sporran munchers. Dappydoo waits in the wings, and we all know his incredibly, *ahem* 'galvanising' affect on the teams he manages.
> 
> ((((Scotland))))


 
Kneel down and praise my prescience 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/dec/20/scott-johnson-scotland-head-coach

That's them even fucked'er, then.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 3, 2013)

In news set to make Torquemad tumescent it has been revealed in the rugby paper that the WRU has secretly been conniving behind the scenes to reduce the Welsh regions from four to 2+1 (development region).

What's more astonishing is who they intended to ditch and, if some rumours are to be believed, still do. Yes folks, it's our most successful region and main supplier of players to 'team Wales' for the best part of a decade, the Os. They have, apparently, even been talking to the Scarlets about basing recruitment around the 'Spreys' crown jewels. What's yet to emerge is the degree of connivance on the part of the Turks and, potentially, the Blues in all of this. 

It's classic divide and rule. Turks and Blues to have a much more favourable split of central funding dangled in front of them, while the Dragons are being threatened with becoming a development region and the Os with extinction. Why? Because the Os are the only region refusing to bow to WRU dictats and again, if rumours be true, have a WRU representative foisted onto their board.

Now I know we're just a sleepy backwater, and I know nobody really cares, but what is most astonishing, and what has been clearly revealed by all of this is the utterly parasitic relationship between the Western Mail and BBC Wales and the WRU. This has appeared precisely nowhere in the Welsh press or wider broadcast media. Beeb and WM shit scared about offending the WRU and losing special player access/broadcasting rights, etc. So what should be a scandal of similar equivalence to that which would be caused by the RFU trying to break up the Tigers and send all their best players to Northampton has evinced not a squeak from our brave, 'investigative' journalists.

What is also clear is that the WRU is now blatantly acting against its mission to support and promote the game in Wales, and is actively seeking to destroy one of our own regions for its own self-interest.

Blog article here if you want a read: http://cornelsiobhan.wordpress.com/2013/01/02/wru-supposed-talks-to-drop-ospreys-unthinkable/


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 3, 2013)

Scrapping the most successful region out of spite???

*Dons tin foil hat *

Almost as surreal, Cardiff Blues skipper Pretorius says he has dreams of playing for Wales.
(Dreams or nightmares?)

He had passed the 'residency test' (bit of a rubbish test really)
Is that enough to make him Welsh?

Surely the there must be sterner tests to prove someone is Welsh- such as being able to pronounce 
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, in under a minute with no hesitation, repetition or deviation?

Any other ideas for Welsh tests?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 3, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Scrapping the most successful region out of spite???
> 
> *Dons tin foil hat *


 
No, not out of spite; out of hubris, control and ambition. Roger Lewis recently came out and flatly stated that they would look at options of 3+1 regions, but within that to restructure the money paid out of the £15m central pot from an equal split to a 6+6+1+1 model, with the two teams with the best chance of achieving in Ewrop getting the 6 and the development team plus the weaker of the others to get the one. Problem with this is that, given finances are so tight, by selecting the weaker of the three non-development teams you are essentially consigning them to a perpetuity of underachievement without serious injections of benefactor cash - something they are unwilling to do.

Given the WRU's reluctance to stump up more money (which they have in abundance) it therefore looks like a 2+1 would be more workable. At this point you need to decide who those 2 are if it is a given that the NGDs will be your +1. There's no way they would be stupid enough to get rid of the Blues given their capital city status (though notwithstanding the fact that they are appallingly managed and, frankly, shit), so the axe would have to fall out west. The Os remain entirely intransigent when it comes to bending over and accepting greater levels of WRU control of the regions (in addition to an appointed WRU member on the board they are also talking about having a hand in appointing coaches, etc.), while the Turks may prove more pliant. Therefore, by the hardnosed, profit and loss based business logic currently in control at the top of the governing body, the Os are the ones standing in the way of progress, and who therefore need to be got rid of.

This is approaching the end game, and unless the clubs stand together there is a strong chance the benefactors (some of whom are very, very wealthy) will walk away (why invest in development of so uncertain a market). At this point the WRU takes control of all four entities, downgrades one, casts another adrift completely _a la _the Warriors in 2004 and beefs up the other two with central contracts and patsies on the board.

_Coup d'etat _complete. WRU gets the player access and management of gametime, etc. it so craves. Two ever-more plastic entities with bigger budgets (but are they big enough even then to compete with the lure Frogside?) emerge, and one club with a rich tradition stretching back a long old time, with the best support in the country and the best record of success gets dumped into oblivion with a concomitant exodus of players heading abroad.

The impact on the game in Wales would be devastating, IMO. Yet another massive chunk of the rugby heartland population - Newport/Gwent and Swansea/Swansea Valleys/Bridgend will be cut adrift from the game, and may well decide to start going and watching our successful football sides instead. WRU will pay off the mortgage quicker, but may find it has no grassroots game to focus on once this has happened.

The WRU are the problem now, not the solution. They have set themselves up as a competitor to those very entities they are supposed to be representing and in a monocular pursuit of the 'best' for 'team Wales', they will destroy the game in Wales.

It's a colossal clusterfuck and one that we'll pay for. Our record for internecine strife is, after all, fairly dismal.



> Almost as surreal, Cardiff Blues skipper Pretorius says he has dreams of playing for Wales.
> (Dreams or nightmares?)
> 
> He had passed the 'residency test' (bit of a rubbish test really)
> ...


 
Give him a knife, turn your back and see if he plunges it between your shoulderblades 

Don't want Pretorius playing for us, BTW. Good player, but about as Welsh as John Redwood. Still, if everyone else is doing it.......


----------



## bendeus (Jan 3, 2013)

Finally our supine press stirs itself. Still only half the story though, IMO.

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Ospreys-odds-WRU-claims/story-17723985-detail/story.html


----------



## bendeus (Jan 3, 2013)

Also some allusion to the claims by Paul Rees in The Times. Rees, it should be noted, is matey with Roger Lewis.



> WALES WANT TO MAKE HOME SWEET HOME
> 
> It is also a turbulent time in Wales where talks to revamp the regional game have yielded smoke but no clarity.
> It is 10 years since Wales decided to abandon club rugby for a regional system. Five sides became four after one season, but with money from central funds tight and with the RaboDirect Pro 12 fixture list making it hard for the regions to generate new income, there is pressure to reduce that number to three.
> ...



E2A: £7500 p.a. Seems like a piss in the pot compared to the megabucks they could earn in a single season in France. Wonder if it's a typo?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 3, 2013)

And more, the first two quotes from Rob Lewis of the Hairsprays,



> They held very serious discussions with a view to getting rid of the Ospreys. There is no doubt that the Union were planning a future without the Ospreys.
> 
> Their plan was to introduce a new region in North Wales and that the Scarlets would take our players. The WRU were hell bent on destroying us.
> 
> ...





> Lewis is going to have a fight on his hands from the Ospreys unless he persuades us to support his view of the way forward.
> 
> His proposals have not even been discussed at the new Professional Rugby Game Board. Contrary to public statement from Lewis, no agreement has been reached with the regions.
> 
> ...



....and the 'lady doth protest too much' rebuttal from the WRU,



> The core allegation is incorrect and defamatory to a degree which means it would be inappropriate to comment further.
> 
> The assertion that the WRU is unaccountable is measurably incorrect in that the Union now shares more relevant information in the public domain that at any time in its history. The chief executive also reports monthly to the full board who in turn report to the clubs through their district representatives.



Thanks to Gwlad for providing these. Reckon that tinfoil hat ain't going to provide enough protection.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 6, 2013)

Have to say I'm surprised by the lack of response on this one. This is a big story that cuts to the heart of the game globally, not just in Wales. Anyway, whatever.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 6, 2013)

well until it's picked up by planet rugby or the bbc or sky sports news
it still sounds so far fetched

lets axe our best team, and give the leftovers to llanelli?

there should be a downfall parody on this surely
a la

or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tyVBvvQtyNU

can you believe the scarlets would be so crafty as to carve up their nearest and dearest on the sly?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 6, 2013)

almost reeks of cannibalism


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 6, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Have to say I'm surprised by the lack of response on this one. This is a big story that cuts to the heart of the game globally, not just in Wales. Anyway, whatever.


What difference will it make to other countries?. The big story is the HC.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 6, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> What difference will it make to other countries?. The big story is the HC.



It would have some fairly major implications in the Rabo. One less fixture all round, less revenue and the not insignificant element of the WRUs contract with that league to provide four sides to compete it.

Equally, I don't think you're asking the right question. Rather than the difference it makes to other countries I'd say one of the issues here is about the sustainability of the global game when such massive financial disparity exists, the impact it is having right now on one of the 'weaker' countries and the potential for other countries and unions to feel the chill blast at one point or another.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 6, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> almost reeks of cannibalism



I'd say its more a 'this is going to happen, we're favouring you as a recipient of the 6-6-1-1 split and the players of that team over the Loughor that keeps beating you will soon be available'.

What's interesting here is that given they were specifically named there has only been deafening silence from Llanelli. No denial, no statement of clarification, nothing.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 6, 2013)

The fact is- France is a bubble.
Like the English premiership, that bubble will burst.  The clubs that have been splashing the cash will suddenly struggle for viability, as, like Rangers in Scotland, the taxman and their creditors will call their debts in.

The concern is what these teams in Wales are doing.
If players want to cash in on the French bubble- good luck to them.
Local clubs, particularly provincial clubs MUST keep producing good young players.
The future is in their academies, not in their stars.

How they get bums on seats is the perogative of the individual clubs.

This club vs WRU batle though is bizarre.

If it were release of contracted players, in a typical club v country dispute, I would understand.

If they were to centrally contract their top starts, provided they play within a Welsh region (as they do in Ireland), that would solve a few problems.

But the dis-establishment of the Ospreys...
over what????


Sounds like utter fruit-loopery


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 6, 2013)

bendeus said:


> It would have some fairly major implications in the Rabo. One less fixture all round, less revenue and the not insignificant element of the WRUs contract with that league to provide four sides to compete it.
> 
> Equally, I don't think you're asking the right question. Rather than the difference it makes to other countries I'd say one of the issues here is about the sustainability of the global game when such massive financial disparity exists, the impact it is having right now on one of the 'weaker' countries and the potential for other countries and unions to feel the chill blast at one point or another.


But surely it's just the game being run badly in Wales?. Ireland have run four pro teams successfully with other competing sports to contend with.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 6, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> well until it's picked up by planet rugby or the bbc or sky sports news
> it still sounds so far fetched
> 
> lets axe our best team, and give the leftovers to llanelli?
> ...




Scrum V on BBC Wales has just run with it (or bits of it). Jiffy quite vitriolic. This is good. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20929267


----------



## 1927 (Jan 6, 2013)

Yhose who dont believe that the WRU would be stupid enough to kill off the most succesful region only have to look back 10 years to see a case where the WRU did excatly that.

Having introduced the league system to make rugby more competitive and marketable in wales, a decision that actually reduced attendances to a fraction of those that attended the previous friendly arrangment, the WRU then ensured that Swansea RFC, the club that had won the league more than any other, had a superb development system in place, provided several Lions in the 90s, beat the Australian world champions etc, were put out of business. This despite giving them an assurance that if they returned to the wru, having left along with Cardiff, to play friendly fixtures against english opposition, that they woulkd be financially looked fater for 10 years.

So being successful is not a guarantee of survival if you go against thye WRU.

And what happened to what was lkeft of Swansea RFC, oh yes they merged wth Neath and became the Os.....


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 8, 2013)

so apart from this take on the childrens party game, this version- pin the knife in the back

any other ideas for Welsh citizenship tests that this South African should have to complete?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 8, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> any other ideas for Welsh citizenship tests that this South African should have to complete?


 
Fourie getting effectively deported back to SA shows just how silly the qualification rules for national rugby are.  Personally I think a passport should a basic requisite for playing for the national side, all the other stuff regarding where they were born and which system they came through is less important.  How can someone represent a national side then be told the leave the country when their career is over?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 8, 2013)

almost as crazy as what the gurkhas have gone through


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 8, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Scrum V on BBC Wales has just run with it (or bits of it). Jiffy quite vitriolic. This is good.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20929267


It's a good point about the WRU turning a profit, what use is that if they don't invest it in the game...


----------



## 1927 (Jan 8, 2013)

Teaboy said:


> Fourie getting effectively deported back to SA shows just how silly the qualification rules for national rugby are. Personally I think a passport should a basic requisite for playing for the national side, all the other stuff regarding where they were born and which system they came through is less important. How can someone represent a national side then be told the leave the country when their career is over?


Absolutely, shows up the residency rules for playing international rugby to be a total pile of shit.


----------



## 1927 (Jan 8, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20954379

What a fucking joke, but nothing more than I expected. Corrupt feckers that the RFU are.


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## The Boy (Jan 8, 2013)

Should be banned for that fucking 'tache.


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## bendeus (Jan 9, 2013)

1927 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20954379
> 
> What a fucking joke, but nothing more than I expected. Corrupt feckers that the RFU are.



"If you're an England player you can do what you want on the pitch with impunity."

It is fucking disgusting.


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## Red Faction (Jan 9, 2013)

in football as well as rugby


no sanctions taken as France 98 world cup looming

however


----------



## bendeus (Jan 9, 2013)

So that's Flood, Hartley, ManuSamoa and, IIRC, Cueto who have got away with murder prior to a major tournament in recent years. It's a good job the IRB prove to be so effective when it comes to ensuring the letter and spirit of the game are upheld......hang on!


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 9, 2013)

Personally I wish Flood had been banned, he's ok but we need to move on, we're not going to win a world cup with him at 10.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 9, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's a good point about the WRU turning a profit, what use is that if they don't invest it in the game...



Absolutely. They have enough money to fund at least three regions that retain Welsh players and are competitive in Europe. They choose not to.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 9, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Absolutely. They have enough money to fund at least three regions that retain Welsh players and are competitive in Europe. They choose not to.


Because they won't have control?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 9, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> Because they won't have control?



I daren't even imagine the more Byzantine machinations of politics at the top of the WRU, but I don't think so. I think the single, monocular focus of the WRU is paying down the stadium debt as quickly as possible. For Roger Lewis this is how success is defined. 

I'm sure it will all play out in its own good time, but while they prevaricate and posture we'll continue to leak both talent and grassroots support. Not a good thing.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 9, 2013)

bendeus said:


> I daren't even imagine the more Byzantine machinations of politics at the top of the WRU, but I don't think so. I think the single, monocular focus of the WRU is paying down the stadium debt as quickly as possible. For Roger Lewis this is how success is defined.
> 
> I'm sure it will all play out in its own good time, but while they prevaricate and posture we'll continue to leak both talent and grassroots support. Not a good thing.


How much debt are they in?. We've got Lansdowne rd to pay off, but I think they're doing ok.


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## bendeus (Jan 9, 2013)

£19m down from £75m. WRU say they are on target to pay it off by 2021. Thing is, they could quite easily restructure to free up more for the regions; it's not like people are suddenly going to stop going to see the national side. About as nailed on an income as you could wish for.


----------



## The Boy (Jan 9, 2013)

bendeus said:


> it's not like people are suddenly going to stop going to see the national side. About as nailed on an income as you could wish for.


 
Yep, even the SRU get a decent income from internationals, and the game is dying on its feet up here there.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Jan 10, 2013)

England squads announced and the strength in depth is starting to impress me. A few good young ones in the Saxons squad like the younger Vunipola, Wade, May and Daly. If Burns can make the step up to international level, I think we'll have a competitive team this 6 nations and because the squad is so young, it looks like it's building to peak at the next World Cup

*England senior elite player squad:*

Forwards: C Clark (Northampton Saints), A Corbisiero (London Irish), D Cole (Leicester Tigers), T Croft (Leicester Tigers), D Hartley (Northampton Saints), J Haskell (London Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), J Launchbury (London Wasps), C Lawes (Northampton Saints), J Marler (Harlequins), B Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), G Parling (Leicester Tigers), C Robshaw (Harlequins), M Vunipola (Saracens), T Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), D Wilson (Bath Rugby), T Wood (Northampton Saints), T Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
Backs: C Ashton (Saracens), B Barritt (Saracens), M Brown (Harlequins), F Burns (Gloucester Rugby), D Care (Harlequins), L Dickson (Northampton Saints), O Farrell (Saracens), T Flood (Leicester Tigers), B Foden (Northampton Saints), A Goode (Saracens), J Joseph (London Irish), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), B Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), B Youngs (Leicester Tigers).
*England Saxons elite player squad:*

Forwards: M Botha (Saracens), N Catt (Bath Rugby), L Deacon (Leicester Tigers), P Doran Jones (Northampton Saints), P Dowson (Northampton Saints), W Fraser (Saracens), J Gray (Harlequins), G Kitchener (Leicester Tigers), S Knight (Gloucester Rugby), M Kvesic (Worcester Warriors), M Mullan (Worcester Warriors), D Paice (London Irish), T Palmer (London Wasps), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester Tigers), H Thomas (Sale Sharks), B Vunipola (London Wasps).
Backs: N Abendanon (Bath Rugby), A Allen (Leicester Tigers), T Biggs (Bath Rugby), E Daly (London Wasps), K Eastmond (Bath Rugby), G Ford (Leicester Tigers), G Lowe (Harlequins), J May (Gloucester Rugby), U Monye (Harlequins), J Simpson (London Wasps), C Sharples (Gloucester Rugby), J Tomkins (Saracens), J Turner-Hall (Harlequins), C Wade (London Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).


----------



## bendeus (Jan 10, 2013)

Some of them are even English! 

But yeah, Saes looking stronger and stronger.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 10, 2013)

Spikey Pikey Mikey slays dragons. 

The Dragons are no Connact, they have plenty of Wales players on their books- so why are they so shite?

Lots of stories in the news recently about career ending injuries. 

Is this a current new boom or what?


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## bendeus (Jan 10, 2013)

By 'plenty' do you mean Faletau and Lydiate?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 10, 2013)

And I doubt their budget is bigger than Galway's finest, TBH.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 11, 2013)

Cardiff Blues rugby player Jason Tovey has been forced to pull out of a Heineken Cup game in France, after his Labrador puppy Buster chewed up his passport.


----------



## torquemad (Jan 13, 2013)

Just back from the principality.

Decent team, especially at the breakdown. Cannot remember a better team at winning breakdown ball . What intrigues me though is, given how quick the sheepshaggers (is that more offensive that "Saes" btw, or Ladies, or Munners or whatever other epithets you employ Monsieur Bendybus? ), why they are so slow to roll away. Right on the edge, I would say. If not cheating ..... oh wait, there is only room for one set of cheet-ahs, apparently. Fucking Welsh accent!

That said, it was a decent game. Even if the ref was a bit of a homer. The boy Walker looks the business and Fotuali'i is a handy sort. However, there is no substitute for class and determination. Hairsprays? Hairdressers more like.

Ah well, next year boys. 

Right, where's me tin hat!


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## bendeus (Jan 13, 2013)

Man, you're a proper cock, aren't you?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 13, 2013)

What a horrendous drive from Edinburgh to Manchester!
Set off straight after it finished. 
Driving through a blizzard in pitch black before I even reached the border. 
Terrifying. 
A poor win. 
We needed the bonus point to be in with a shout. 

Did anyone catch the game at home?

Felt I spent more time watching Edinburgh be told to reset for the scrum than I did watching rugby. 

Can't understand how, after speaking to their front row, no cards were shown, and no penalty tries were awarded for collapsing on their 5m line. 

Also felt a penalty try should have been given for the yellow card offence. 
Throwing the ball out from over the try line. 

Anyone have a better view from their armchairs?


----------



## torquemad (Jan 13, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Man, you're a proper cock, aren't you?


 

Aye. Monkey see monkey do, fella. Thing is you are, on the one hand, quite an articulate sort of geezer. However your propensity for idiot and juvenile name-calling confuses me. Are you really a language-deficient middle aged knob or are you some sort of nerd Mensa sixteen year old with a typically teenage vocabulary and soccer-style level of abuse?

Either way, it's goodbye to the HEC for another year boyo. On the plus side, it will give you more time for the pigeon loft.

ETA. Just to eliminate any doubt, I really do find your analyses generally very interesting and informative. But please do leave out the imbecile, occasionally racist and offensive epithets.  It does not become you


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Ah, fuck off! I was going to do one of my 'incisive' and rather balanced analyses of the rather wonderful match both you and I just had the privilege to view, but I think I'm just going to call you cunt and be done with it. You going to bother making any other gloating posts now you've managed to draw with a side with half your player budget?


----------



## torquemad (Jan 14, 2013)

No





bendeus said:


> Ah, fuck off! I was going to do one of my 'incisive' and rather balanced analyses of the rather wonderful match both you and I just had the privilege to view, but I think I'm just going to call you cunt and be done with it. You going to bother making any other gloating posts now you've managed to draw with a side with half your player budget?



. Not bothered really. Except to say it is disappointing that you now want to cry foul on budgets. This is a new development. Whatever next? Colonialism? Imperialism?


----------



## 1927 (Jan 14, 2013)

supporter of most cuntish team in rugby is a cunt shock!


----------



## torquemad (Jan 14, 2013)

1927 said:


> supporter of most cuntish team in rugby is a cunt shock!





1927 said:


> supporter of most cuntish team in rugby is a cunt shock!



A trifle harsh on your compatriot, boyo!


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

What amuses me most about all this is quite how clever you clearly think you are  

I, for one, am terribly impressed.


----------



## torquemad (Jan 14, 2013)

bendeus said:


> What amuses me most about all this is quite how clever you clearly think you are
> 
> I, for one, am terribly impressed.




Always happy to please. 

But now please excuse me … sooo … tired …


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Aye, sleep well. How you're going to rid yourself of that proud tumescence is anybody's guess, mind.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 14, 2013)

O'Gara, the silly cunt cited and will be deservedly out for next week 

I'm not sure if it will be worse to go out in the group stage or to scrape through and get danced on in an away quarter final in France


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 14, 2013)

When did that happen?
I missed it during the match.

Was it during the 2nd half melee after our first try?
Thought Zebo might walk for getting a bit too enthousiastic

The crowd were all on their feet belting out Stand Up and Fight.

They got into the habit of blasting out shit pop music loudly for spurts, when we were in full song.

I missed the Sarries game, but many were pissed off after similar antics.

Whats all that about?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> When did that happen?
> I missed it during the match.
> 
> Was it during the 2nd half melee after our first try?
> ...



A few games off the all time international appearances record, no? If he gets the ban he should he'll miss a chunk of the 6N - could this mean the end of Onan's international career?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 14, 2013)

bendeus said:


> A few games off the all time international appearances record, no? If he gets the ban he should he'll miss a chunk of the 6N - could this mean the end of Onan's international career?


Don't think so.
He's still the back up to Sexton.

Remember when we imploded during the France world cup?  We had no alternatives to Ronan, David Humphreys was at home in Ballymena.
Won't be in that position again.  He'll remain on the fringes, earning caps for 79th minute appearances.

A link to the kick in question?  I've not seen it.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Don't think so.
> He's still the back up to Sexton.
> 
> Remember when we imploded during the France world cup?  We had no alternatives to Ronan, David Humphreys was at home in Ballymena.
> ...



Me neither, from descriptions is sounds pretty low. Unprovoked kick from behind or some such.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Any chance Keatley can step up, or will he always be Rabo fodder?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 14, 2013)

Really?

:-(

If you're going to get banned, at least do it for something worthwhile...

Never understood why they took rucking out of the game.

Made no sense at all...


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Really?
> 
> :-(
> 
> ...



'Elf and facking sayftee'. The primary cause of the slow burn farce that is the modern breakdown, though. I love it on the odd occasion you see proper, old-fashioned and justified rucking pass unnoticed or unpunished by the ref.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 14, 2013)

I have a lot of sympathy for the ref.  There are too many rules around the ruck and they need to sport each and every one of them for fear of being labelled biased/shit.

Do them a favour.  Take away having to ref who is in an offside position by allowing rucking back into the game.

The players aren't stupid, they'll learn...


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Interesting comments from Schmidt here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21003484

Basically saying Wales should adopt the Irish model of central contracting and player management.

I guess in a Welsh context this would depend massively on whether they would release extra money in addition to existing regional budgets to pay the elite player contracts or whether it would mean less for the regions on an ongoing basis.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> I have a lot of sympathy for the ref.  There are too many rules around the ruck and they need to sport each and every one of them for fear of being labelled biased/shit.
> 
> Do them a favour.  Take away having to ref who is in an offside position by allowing rucking back into the game.
> 
> The players aren't stupid, they'll learn...



Yeah, the game is now unreffable in its current form. This doesn't excuse the fact that some make up for this by choosing a side they intend to 'ref' more than the other, but it is a serious issue. 

Rucking would go a long way to redressing one of the major imbalances of the game. As would reffing straight feeds and setting the scrum before the drive. Far too simple for the cretins in the IRB, mind.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 14, 2013)

I agree entirely.

Think I've said it before on here.

If you're going to drop the pyramid league and go for centralised provincial model, you can't do it by half measures.

Look at what works, and copy them.

It kills 2 birds with one stone.  The top players stay in Wales, knowing their pay is secure and decent.

The clubs balance their books.

I know you've long argued against the lack of investment in the clubs by the WRU, but this is a compromise where everyone is satisfied in the short term.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 14, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Yeah, the game is now unreffable in its current form. This doesn't excuse the fact that some make up for this by choosing a side they intend to 'ref' more than the other, but it is a serious issue.
> 
> Rucking would go a long way to redressing one of the major imbalances of the game. As would reffing straight feeds and setting the scrum before the drive. Far too simple for the cretins in the IRB, mind.


 
I think its very difficult for one man to do.
I don't understand why they don't get the touch judges and 4th official more involved.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> I agree entirely.
> 
> Think I've said it before on here.
> 
> ...



Out of interest, to what degree do you feel that Irish provinces are independent of the IRFU, and to what extent do you think that they trust them to represent their interests.

I think the breakdown of trust here is such that there is a suspicion that the WRU wants total control, and is only interested in representing the interests of itself and of its stadium, hence the deadlock. I mostly subscribe to this perspective.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 14, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> I think its very difficult for one man to do.
> I don't understand why they don't get the touch judges and 4th official more involved.



Yeah. The real problem lies in the danger of TJ and 4th official intervention turning our beloved game into American Football, with a constant stop-start for infringements. You've got to balance the need for fairness and the need for flow. My mate reckons there should be a permanent audio live feed from the 4th official to the ref, with a certain time lapse moratorium on how long after the incident you can inform him of the infringement. Don't know if its workable....


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 15, 2013)

Symbiosis.

They take our best players, but only when we have players worth taking.

They invest in out academies.

There has been animosity, even very recently.  Feelings that other provinces are having players picked preferentially.

But now we have 4 strong provinces.
Connacht, the best they have ever been. 
(Modern) Ulster they best they have ever been.
 Leinster the best they have ever been (shaky HC matches apart)
Munster, retiring some phenomenal players, and bringing through excellent young players.
Harvesting fruits well sown.

There are such strong parallels between the WRU & IRFU.
4 provinces, one clearly a development side.
A big mortgage on the stadium.

Our system works.

You want buy in from the clubs.

Its not about the WRU running the clubs, its about the clubs running the WRU.

The simple fact is, strong club sides = a strong Welsh side.

I think you've had too much 'luck' in recent years (I appreciate you don't win slams by luck).

If you hadn't had such a good time, it wouldn't have carried on this way for so long.  A bit of myopia from the WRU that they could actually have their cake and eat it.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 15, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> You want buy in from the clubs.
> 
> Its not about the WRU running the clubs, its about the clubs running the WRU.
> 
> ...



This is bang on. I posted a few months ago that we may have just witnessed the apogee of Welsh rygbi. The WRU have been dining on the golden goose for a long time now and the eggs may well have dried up, leaving them a scabby carcass to try and jam in the food caddy. Symbiosis is the only way; not a wholesale aping of the Irish model but one that borrows the good bits and that is adapted to us, our history and our circumstances. The problem is, I fear, that the WRU don't have the DNA to be able to relinquish control for the good of the game. They conflate Welsh rygbi with themselves in a rather absolutist way that brooks little alternative. Hubris can fuck us yet.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 15, 2013)

But who makes up the WRU?

Who is this faceless organisation?

Elected apointees from... the clubs?


----------



## bendeus (Jan 15, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> But who makes up the WRU?
> 
> Who is this faceless organisation?
> 
> Elected apointees from... the clubs?



Yes. From all 293-odd of them. This is part of the problem. Root and branch the WRU are still founded on amateur blazerati desperate for their ticket allocations and to be made to feel important when they attend the AGMs, etc. They are easily impressed and easily bought. Voting rights are equal, so Llantwit Major RFC (my local side) have equal say to the Ospreys. This allows the structure to be stacked against the regions, as turkeys don't tend to vote for Christmas.

I think that part of the problem here is that Lewis is a very shrewd, very canny operator, who has been in and out of a lot of blue chip boardrooms. He can manipulate and connive in a way that the board and the rank and file are not equipped to deal with, so he gets his way. Essentially he is an unaccountable viceroy sat at the top of the pyramid.


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## Red Faction (Jan 15, 2013)

The regions could orchestrate it themselves then.

E.g. Make sure the clubs from the west sing to the Scarlets hymn sheet. 
So the 70 members from the west vote as the Scarlet block etc.


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## bendeus (Jan 15, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> The regions could orchestrate it themselves then.
> 
> E.g. Make sure the clubs from the west sing to the Scarlets hymn sheet.
> So the 70 members from the west vote as the Scarlet block etc.



Yes. This is why the likes of the Os are calling for regional unity and why the WRU appear to be trying to divide and rule


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 15, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> When did that happen?
> I missed it during the match.
> 
> Was it during the 2nd half melee after our first try?
> ...


I was at The Saracens game and they absolutely blared that stupid fucking song of theirs out at every break in play. Including once when O'Gara was starting his penalty routine and once when a Munster player was down injured. It was a fucking disgrace and spoiled the atmosphere and every bodies enjoyment of the game. To be fair all the Sarries fans were mortified too. I'll never go to one of their home games again after it though.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 15, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Any chance Keatley can step up, or will he always be Rabo fodder?



I don't think he can. I think Jackson could though. What's the point in having O'Gara on the bench for the 6 nations? We should try something different. Jackson can cover first centre too.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 15, 2013)

.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 15, 2013)

Mr Retro said:


> I don't think he can. I think Jackson could though. What's the point in having O'Gara on the bench for the 6 nations? We should try something different. Jackson can cover first centre too.



He's Deccie's lucky rabbit's foot though, isn't he?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 18, 2013)

Mr Retro said:


> What's the point in having O'Gara on the bench for the 6 nations?


He can close out games.
Things are tight, he can put the ball back in their corner.

Having said that- the Edinburgh match was the first time I've head a decent number of fans voicing Keatley should be given the Munster 10 nod


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jan 19, 2013)

Oh well I wasn't enjoying having to support a team with Johnny Wilkinson in it anyway.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jan 19, 2013)

Weirdly that could be the best Leinster have played in years and yet they lost the half?!


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## Red Faction (Jan 20, 2013)

If (and its a big if) we get the 4th try, what will they use to determine whether we get the nod ahead of Leinster, if we're both tied on 20 points?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 20, 2013)

Also- the BBC website says that if Leicester get a bonus point win over Toulouse, then we will be out.

But that also doesn't make sense- surely their match it a straight winner takes all for QFs?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 20, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Also- the BBC website says that if Leicester get a bonus point win over Toulouse, then we will be out.
> 
> But that also doesn't make sense- surely their match it a straight winner takes all for QFs?


Munster will qualify as long as Toulouse do not score four tries and lose by 7 pts or fewer in Leicester. Leinster are out


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 20, 2013)

Its the difference between us and Leinster tries scored?

If so- why hasn't anyone covering these matches mentioned it?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 22, 2013)

And so we’ve reached the quarter finals of the Heineken Cup.

Perhaps we should reflect on the winners and the losers, after 5,760 minutes of rugby.

Pool one winners Saracens welcome Ulster in the quarter finals.  After beating Munster at home, and clawing two phenomenal wins against Metro, they earned a home tie in the next round.  Munster can feel disappointed at being drawn away, having thrown away victory against Metro in the closing stages of round one.  Their prize in the second round is a trip to the Stoop.  Metro played fantastic rugby this season, however poor away form ultimately cost them.
Apart from 10 minutes in the penultimate group game, Edinburgh were wholly dreadful.  It is amazing to think that this team were semi-finalists last time out.

Pool 2 came to a nail biting finish as previous 2x champions Leicester ground out a victory against previous 4x champions Toulouse, earning them an unenviable trip to Le Stade Mayol in quarter finals.  Swansea’s finest hardly covered themselves in glory, a far cry from the team that won the 2008 Grand Slam.  Meanwhile, Italian club Treviso will be proud of their performances, but unhappy that they couldn’t convert them into wins, despite fantastic showings both home and away.

In the first quarter final, Harlequins will host Munster.  ‘Quins survived the group stages undefeated, despite facing previous Heineken Cup finalists Biarritz, and their nemesis from last year, Connacht.

In pool 4, Ulster will be narked to have to travel to play Saracens.  They lost only one game throughout the group stages, after qualification had already been guaranteed.  Hopefully that loss will spur them on to recreate the form that blew away English, Scottish and French giants in the group stages.

Pool 5 champions Clermont remain unbeaten, having conceded a miserly 64 points after 6 games.
They destroyed current (and double) Heineken Cup champions Leinster, in a way that suggests they might finally show this competition what they’re capable of, having been favourites to succeed in Europe for a number of years.
Another big success story of pool 5 are the Exeter Chiefs, having not long been promoted to the English Premiership.  They held their own at Sandy Park despite some ferocious competition, the club seems to be going from strength to strength.  If only the same could be said of the Scarlets, one of the pillars of Welsh rugby, unable to win a single match.  Their tally of 79 points is the 6th lowest in the competition, behind Treviso and even Connacht.

Pool 6 split early on.  Cardiff and Sale proving no match for their French opposition.
Toulon and Montpellier could only be separated by a single bonus point, ultimately the difference between a home quarter final and a runner up spot.


The draw for the quarter finals is as follows:

1 Harlequins v Munster
2. Clermont v Montpellier
3. Saracens v Ulster
4. Toulon v Leicester

All matches are scheduled to take place the weekend of April 5th.
London can expect a deluge of Irish fans.

Red Faction's pick of the week will be Saracens v Ulster. 

The winner of Saracens v Ulster will play either Toulon or the Tigers in the semi finals.
The winner of Clermont v Montpellier will play either Harlequins or Munster in the semi finals.

The finalists will meet in Dublin on May 18th.

Here's hoping for Ulster and Munster in the final, however Irish fans will pray that history does not repeat itself.  
In 2003 when Dublin hosted the final, two Irish teams met two French teams in the semi-finals.

Toulouse beat Perpgnan to win the 8th Heineken Cup final.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 23, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Swansea’s finest hardly covered themselves in glory, a far cry from the team that won the 2008 grand slam



I'd have to disagree here. Swansea's finest did just fine. Given the injuries suffered and players lost, the Os displayed a battling mentality that bodes very, very well for the future.  The team has played the majority of fixtures without its first choice second row pairing or  main strike runner. Ryan missed a number, as did Adam and Hibbard. The team that drew with Leicester finished with five first-choices on then field, played a half with about eight, and started with about ten. The XV versus Treviso was even more raw. Scrum halves at centre and the like. Our bench has been appalling in the main due to injuries and lack of squad depth. When Cheetahs brought on Waldron and Castro at 60, we brought on a bunch of kids out of position. 

This season has seen some very, very decent performances barring the last ten minutes in Welford Road, five minutes vs. Tiggers at the Library and a last five minute brainfart combined with one criminal reffing decision in Treviso. Though he'd hate to admit it, even Torquemad would have to admit that our kids and makeshift stand-ins gave Leicester a hell of a game the other week. I was proud of their competitiveness, defence, breakdown work, ball retention and guts. Tandy is building something special here, built on a very Leicester-like bloody-mindedness, mechanical ball retention and effective half backs. This Os side, if it can be kept together, and fortified in a couple of key positions, could be very special. The rest is up to the WRU.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 23, 2013)

Oh, and winners? Clermont. Without a shadow.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 24, 2013)

bendeus said:


> This Os side, if it can be kept together, and fortified in a couple of key positions, could be very special. The rest is up to the WRU.



 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21180251

That's us fucked, then. Biggar intimated in a recent interview that retaining Kahn would be a big driver for him ignoring the lure Frogside and signing an extension.

Will the WRU now realise that there is no way we can compete with a £3.5m cap on our playing budget, and that for every moment they dither we will continue to lose class players you can build a team around.

And to those dirty fuckers as well. A dark day.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 25, 2013)

Sextons gone to Racing Metro for a rumored 750k over two seasons, nice work if you can get it.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 25, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> Sextons gone to Racing Metro for a rumored 750k over two seasons, nice work if you can get it.



Thought that was very interesting. I genuinely believed he was trying to ramp up the terms of a new contract with the Ladyboys by looking all coquettish at Racing. Obviously not. Will he be the first of many, and will this affect his chances of playing for Ireland?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 25, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Thought that was very interesting. I genuinely believed he was trying to ramp up the terms of a new contract with the Ladyboys by looking all coquettish at Racing.


we weren't alone


bendeus said:


> Obviously not. Will he be the first of many?


no, Mick O'Driscoll did it a few years before him ;-)


bendeus said:


> will this affect his chances of playing for Ireland?


no


----------



## bendeus (Jan 25, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> we weren't alone
> 
> no, Mick O'Driscoll did it a few years before him ;-)
> 
> no



There's no stay in Ireland play for Ireland-type eligibility criteria, then? 

I wouldn't be so sure that others won't follow. If you can pay enough money to attract a player away from Leinster you can pay enough to attract them from any of the provinces. Or did he go for other reasons, e.g. to improve his game? More to the point, WTF are Leinster going to do without him, BOD and D'Arcy next season? That's a big hole in the backline


----------



## flypanam (Jan 26, 2013)

Sexton leaves and Davy Tweed (one of the most odious Orange men) capt five times for Ireland also goes away for a long time...

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...-rugby-sex-abuse_n_2551188.html?utm_hp_ref=uk


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 26, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Thought that was very interesting. I genuinely believed he was trying to ramp up the terms of a new contract with the Ladyboys by looking all coquettish at Racing. Obviously not. Will he be the first of many, and will this affect his chances of playing for Ireland?


Not sure if he'll be the first of many, the Irish players get a tax break if they stay in Ireland. It won't affect his chances one bit as we are very thin on the ground for 10s. A positive thing is that it will open up a space for someone like Madigan to prove himself.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 26, 2013)

flypanam said:


> Sexton leaves and Davy Tweed (one of the most odious Orange men) capt five times for Ireland also goes away for a long time...
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...-rugby-sex-abuse_n_2551188.html?utm_hp_ref=uk



Jesus! What a charming individual.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 26, 2013)

bendeus said:


> There's no stay in Ireland play for Ireland-type eligibility criteria, then?



No.  Replace him with who?  ROG?  Sexton is clearly the future 10.  Keatley has to edge out ROG at Munster before he is in with a shout.  Paddy Wallace needs to step his game up.  What ever happened to David Humphrie's younger brother?



bendeus said:


> I wouldn't be so sure that others won't follow. If you can pay enough money to attract a player away from Leinster you can pay enough to attract them from any of the provinces.



As has been proven in the past.  Ultimately, all the players with futures have come home better for the experience.



bendeus said:


> Or did he go for other reasons, e.g. to improve his game? More to the point, WTF are Leinster going to do without him, BOD and D'Arcy next season? That's a big hole in the backline



Who gives a flying fuck????


----------



## bendeus (Jan 26, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> No.  Replace him with who?  ROG?  Sexton is clearly the future 10.  Keatley has to edge out ROG at Munster before he is in with a shout.  Paddy Wallace needs to step his game up.  What ever happened to David Humphrie's younger brother?



Aye. You're short at 10 after Sexton, and that's for sure.



> As has been proven in the past.  Ultimately, all the players with futures have come home better for the experience.



Except for Gethin Jenkins.



> Who gives a flying fuck????



Erm, not me to any great extent. I was just interested. What have you got sand in your vagina about?


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 26, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Erm, not me to any great extent. I was just interested. What have you got sand in your vagina about?


 
After recovering from the 5 point win over metro, I filled with a great sense of warmth.

Not just in the knowledge, that we had secured a spot in the knock out rounds

but also that those Dublin wankers didnt...


----------



## bendeus (Jan 27, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> After recovering from the 5 point win over metro, I filled with a great sense of warmth.
> 
> Not just in the knowledge, that we had secured a spot in the knock out rounds
> 
> but also that those Dublin wankers didnt...



Ah!


----------



## flypanam (Jan 27, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> but also that those Dublin wankers didnt...


 
As a Northerner, it upsets me that you slurry fuckers made it to the 1/4ers 

Hopefully see you in the final to sort shit out once and for all 

"Stand up for the ulster men"


----------



## bendeus (Jan 27, 2013)

Out of interest, are you guys 'us vs. the northern/southern bastards' until such a point as either of you are against non-Irish bastards, or is the rivalry in Ireland sufficient to see Munstermen wishing to see the Ladyboys or Ulster beaten by an English/Welsh/French side?


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Jan 27, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Out of interest, are you guys 'us vs. the northern/southern bastards' until such a point as either of you are against non-Irish bastards, or is the rivalry in Ireland sufficient to see Munstermen wishing to see the Ladyboys or Ulster beaten by an English/Welsh/French side?


 
You get a bit of that sort of rivalry, particularly amongst Munster fans directed at Leinster, but overwhelmingly Irish fans prefer to see the other Provinces win against any team from outside Ireland.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 27, 2013)

Nige nailed it.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 27, 2013)

I like to see Ireland do well.
That necessitates 4 provinces doing well.

I don't want them to profit at our expense.
However this season, given what happenned to Nevin, I would quite happily cheer for Ulster in the final.


----------



## bendeus (Jan 27, 2013)

This rivalry is most prevalent in Wales between Turks and Hairsprays. Can't say I personally would ever cheer on a non- welsh side against our regions


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 27, 2013)

I watched the 2009 final in a bar in Cape Town.

Hardest decision of my life.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 8, 2013)

Fucking hell! Os just beat Ulster in Ravinghell in what was probably the best game of the season. A whole new generation of potentially world class players coming through from the academy, particularly up front in Bevington, King and Peers. Pride of Wales. Wonder if they could donate their coaching team to the cause.


----------



## bendeus (Feb 15, 2013)

Look at this scoreline: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/teams/glasgow

Welsh rygbi is proper fucked.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 1, 2013)

Ferris ruled out for three months due to complications with his injury. This effectively dashes his chances of touring with the Lions. I'd say that both increases the chances of Ryan Jones touring, and puts Lydiate firmly in the driving seat for a starting berth at blindside. It's a shame for SF, because he's real quality and his ball carrying ability would be very useful out in Aus. Real bummer for the guy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21535697


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 1, 2013)

bendeus said:


> , and puts Lydiate firmly in the driving seat for a starting berth at blindside.


 
I think you're jumping the gun somewhat.  Did you not see Lawes playing there for England on Saturday, the man looked a natural.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 1, 2013)

Teaboy said:


> I think you're jumping the gun somewhat. Did you not see Lawes playing there for England on Saturday, the man looked a natural.


 


For a second there I didn't see the winky. Fingers were poised above the keyboard with dial set to 'scathing'


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 1, 2013)

Its rare for someone to miss every tackle, we may never see that again.

Talking of missing tackles I read the other day that Halfpenny has not missed one so far this 6N, thats really quite impressive; combine that with his kicking and attacking threat he's got to be the first name on the Lions team sheet?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 1, 2013)

Teaboy said:


> Its rare for someone to miss every tackle, we may never see that again.
> 
> Talking of missing tackles I read the other day that Halfpenny has not missed one so far this 6N, thats really quite impressive; combine that with his kicking and attacking threat he's got to be the first name on the Lions team sheet?


 
For me, yes. Two MoMs in three games as well. Could well have been 3/3 if we'd overhauled Ireland in the second half in Cardiff. I think Kearney has fallen off the pace (carrying a niggle, apparently) and Foden is still getting gametime in the Aviva with insufficient time to get back into contention, IMO, so it's between Hogg and 1/2p. Hogg has been a revelation so far, but I'm not sure about his defence (not that I suspect it, just that I haven't had enough time to scrutinise it). I think it's Leigh's shirt to lose ATM.

E2A: I really have to shoehorn in here that during the WC, Toby Faletau made a total of 75 tackles (the highest in the competition, IIRC) and missed none. In the subsequent 6N he really blotted his copybook by missing one. He should be the starting 8 out in Aus. Funny how he's never rated, not even here in Wales.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 1, 2013)

Absolutly, Faletau is another dead cert for me.  Perhaps he is understimated because of his size?  He doesnt look like a back rower, also I could be wrong but I don't recall him making a huge amount of yards with the ball in hand, still a great tackler and footballer.

This is where the problem starts with the Lions because you could make a very strong argument for the whole back row and at least one of if not both props to be Welsh.  But then we have to look at this 6N (I know Lydiate hasnt started) and recognise that the Welsh backs have been starved of quick ball and have not been given the platform they were in 2012.

Do we just put this down to the coaching or is there something else going on?  Is it a risk picking some many Welsh forwards to start for the Lions?  By the way I was mightly impressed with both Scottish locks on Sunday on that showing I reckon they'll both be in with a shout.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 1, 2013)

Teaboy said:


> Absolutly, Faletau is another dead cert for me.  Perhaps he is understimated because of his size?  He doesnt look like a back rower, also I could be wrong but I don't recall him making a huge amount of yards with the ball in hand, still a great tackler and footballer.
> 
> This is where the problem starts with the Lions because you could make a very strong argument for the whole back row and at least one of if not both props to be Welsh.  But then we have to look at this 6N (I know Lydiate hasnt started) and recognise that the Welsh backs have been starved of quick ball and have not been given the platform they were in 2012.
> 
> Do we just put this down to the coaching or is there something else going on?  Is it a risk picking some many Welsh forwards to start for the Lions?  By the way I was mightly impressed with both Scottish locks on Sunday on that showing I reckon they'll both be in with a shout.



Faletau was the top ball carrier at the world cup as well as the top tackler. Always breaks the first tackle. Whether he'll start is another matter. As you say, back row is the most interesting mix of the lot in terms of selection.


----------



## Red Faction (Mar 2, 2013)

Sean O'Brien has been outstanding this tournament.  Even on the losing side.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 2, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Sean O'Brien has been outstanding this tournament.  Even on the losing side.


Mmm. But what, exactly, is he?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2013)

Butler's 35-man Lions squad for Oz. Seems eminently sensible.



> *Backs*
> 
> *Full-back*s
> *Leigh Halfpenny* Wales, xx, xx caps, *Stuart Hogg* Scotland, xx, xx caps,
> ...


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2013/mar/02/lions-selection-brian-odriscoll


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 4, 2013)

Nobody will ever agree with Lions selections but Warburton will go if fit, Tuilagi won't play on the wing and Care should go over Williams. Other than that it would be more or less what I would sat tbf


----------



## bendeus (Mar 4, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Nobody will ever agree with Lions selections but Warburton will go if fit, Tuilagi won't play on the wing and Care should go over Williams. Other than that it would be more or less what I would sat tbf



Agreed on Care over LW. Tuilagi will, as you say, play in the centre and I can't see AWJ not touring


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 7, 2013)

London Welsh deducted 5 points (and are now bottom of the league) for fielding an ineligible player for 10 games after someone knowingly falsified the player registration. LW seem to of been open about the whole thing and told the RFU about it once other people found out but with other teams getting 1 or 2 points deducted just for fielding ineligible players for 1 game, the RFU had to do a bit more. Got to feel sorry for them because it's been uphill battle for them from the off and the guy responsible should receive a heavy ban for doing this to the club.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21674783


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 8, 2013)

I feel sorry for London Welsh, I have a soft spot for them as they used to play a few metres from where I live.  This'll sink them and having just moved stadium it is the last thing they needed.  Someone should be hauled over the coals for this.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 9, 2013)

This is just so fucking depressing. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21726391


----------



## mattie (Mar 9, 2013)

Teaboy said:


> I feel sorry for London Welsh, I have a soft spot for them as they used to play a few metres from where I live. This'll sink them and having just moved stadium it is the last thing they needed. Someone should be hauled over the coals for this.


 
Thankfully, someone has.

The tit who instigated this fiasco has been banned from all rugby for life.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21718042


----------



## bendeus (Mar 9, 2013)

Threshers_Flail said:


> This is just so fucking depressing.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21726391



I think it's great. He's third choice behind Priestland and Shingler. Will get more gametime with the Cheetahs, so essentially they will pay to develop him. Already tied in to Wales through the U20s. If he develops as we'd hope he'll come home a better player.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2013)

kinell


----------



## The Boy (Mar 9, 2013)

Still on for the wooden spoon


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 10, 2013)

bendeus said:


> I think it's great. He's third choice behind Priestland and Shingler. Will get more gametime with the Cheetahs, so essentially they will pay to develop him. Already tied in to Wales through the U20s. If he develops as we'd hope he'll come home a better player.


 
Hmm. Is he not just going to be fourth choice at Leicester? I would like him to get some of the arrogance of the Leicester mindset mind you. I'm fed up of emotionally fragile 10's for Wales.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Mar 10, 2013)

How did we lose to England, they're awful.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 12, 2013)

How may fly halves fo Leicester need?

Also Bendy, every time you mention 'Cheetahs' I keep thinking you're talking about the South African team. Stop confusing me!


----------



## bendeus (Mar 12, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> How may fly halves fo Leicester need?
> 
> Also Bendy, every time you mention 'Cheetahs' I keep thinking you're talking about the South African team. Stop confusing me!


I'm afraid I feel compelled to keep using it just in case Torquemad (Slayer of Racists) is still lurking.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 16, 2013)

Just watched this weeks Total Rugby and saw that the IRB are trialing new scrum laws in the Pacific Cup, where front rows have to pre-bind. Is this going to be enough to save scrums?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 16, 2013)

CMON IRELAND


----------



## bendeus (Mar 21, 2013)

Brian Moore has started a survey monkey as a means of trying to pressurise the IRB to reform scrummaging. Suggest that any of you who care about how it's destroying the game participate:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/Home_Landing.aspx?sm=2IbvbbSZtIGkGuOpB45q2tRnWjG/GgfDLgB22QXdn2o=


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 21, 2013)

That link isnt working bendeus.


----------



## bendeus (Mar 21, 2013)

Good article by Moore here on the subject: 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...s-of-IRB-examination-of-the-modern-scrum.html


----------



## bendeus (Mar 21, 2013)

Try this one: http://t.co/cbVJatHpaT


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 21, 2013)

What's the reason they don't go with passive engagement now?


----------



## bendeus (Mar 21, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> What's the reason they don't go with passive engagement now?



Can't be bothered, I think 

Pretty much says so in the BM article


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 21, 2013)

It's been a long while since I saw a move off the back of a scrum


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Mar 21, 2013)

> pushing should only begin when the ball leaves the scum-half’s hands.


 
Hahaha.. I don't think I've EVER seen that happen, playing or watching


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 21, 2013)

The IRB are already trialing a pre-bind engagement, like I said earlier in the thread. There was a section about it on last weeks 'Total Rugby'


----------



## starfish (Mar 24, 2013)

Congratulations to my club GHA on winning the Scottish Championship League A in yesterdays title decider against southside rivals Cartha QP. A 23-0 away win was enough to secure the only promotion spot to the Scottish National League (Division 2 in other words)


----------



## bendeus (Mar 25, 2013)

Jerry Collins arrested in Japan for possession of a 17" kitchen knife in a department store. Sounds like he may be having some kind of MH issues according to this:

m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10872354


----------



## Pingu (Mar 25, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Good article by Moore here on the subject:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...s-of-IRB-examination-of-the-modern-scrum.html


 
I don't normally like moores witterings but that one is fairly spot on imo


----------



## bendeus (Mar 30, 2013)

Either the American Military has spiked my Ovaltine with BZ or the Weedjies just stuck 50 on Muhnner.

E2A: quite a seismic result. Well done, Glasgow!


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 30, 2013)

Possible Anglo-Welsh league merger being talked about. Interesting...



> Wales' rugby regions have held fresh exploratory talks with English clubs over joining the Aviva Premiership.


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21977459


----------



## bendeus (Mar 30, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Possible Anglo-Welsh league merger being talked about. Interesting...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21977459



Amazing if true. The only thing that could save the domestic game in Wales, IMO. Where would that leave the Irish and Scots, though?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Mar 30, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Amazing if true. The only thing that could save the domestic game in Wales, IMO. Where would that leave the Irish and Scots, though?


 
I was thinking the same. I don't think Ireland, Scotland and Italy could have a league without Wales. Although I've always thought the best thing for Italy would of been to join the French leagues.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 2, 2013)

Deccie's devilled, then. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22007454

Poor fella. Can't help but think that Ireland's problems run deeper than a reshuffle at the top will be able to sort in the short term at least. Still a team in transition, IMO.

Wonder where he'll pop up next? Should have a future as a pro coach, unlike EOS. 

Some interesting names in the hat for the top job, not least that of Mike Ruddock. Be afraid.....


----------



## bendeus (Apr 2, 2013)

trampie: notice you're on ScumV arguing for central contracts as a panacea for the ongoing car crash that is Welsh rygbi. Care to share your vision on here?


----------



## flypanam (Apr 3, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Deccie's devilled, then.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22007454
> 
> ...


 
Probably right bendy, the whole culture of the Ireland set up has to change, but it's the head coach that sets the tone. Deccie had a poor campaign compounded by the loss of some good players due to injury (there's an arguement for our lads to put on some weight to provide some cushioning from the hits) and his stubbon belief that he didn't have to pick form players.

I think the six nations campaign shows that we just don't have the depth of talent we thought we had. Who ever takes over (I want Vern Cotton but that won't happen) is going to have to have a word with the provinces to help inject younger players into the match day squads more often. Find a way of keep the players we've got (Ferris is off to Japan) and build up competition for the national team and end the silly experiement of playing players out of position.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 3, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Some interesting names in the hat for the top job, not least that of Mike Ruddock. Be afraid.....


What's up with Ruddock then?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 3, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Possible Anglo-Welsh league merger being talked about. Interesting...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21977459


 
It's surely just politicking around the North transfer though. The WRU would never let it happen.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 3, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> What's up with Ruddock then?



Not a very good coach.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 3, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's surely just politicking around the North transfer though. The WRU would never let it happen.



Aye. It probably is. And no, they wouldn't, unless the regions had the stomach for another rebel season. The depth of animosity at present wouldn't make it impossible to foresee that, though.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 3, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Not a very good coach.


We'll probably go for him then. Didn't he do the GS with Wales?.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 3, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> We'll probably go for him then. Didn't he do the GS with Wales?.



Yeah, but a lot of senior players felt his influence on the GS was overstated and that the success was down to a combination of the platform built by Hansen and the attacking innovations brought by Dappydoo. 

He subsequently went on to coach Worcester, where in spite of having a decent player budget he managed to get them relegated. As with EOS I think it says a fair bit that he hasn't exactly had senior international or domestic clubs bashing down the door to secure his services since then.


----------



## The Boy (Apr 3, 2013)

flypanam said:


> I think the six nations campaign shows that we just don't have the depth of talent we thought we had. Who ever takes over (I want *Vern Cotton* but that won't happen)


 
I take it you mean Vern Cotter?  If so, keep yer grubby mitts of him until PSA gets the boot.


----------



## flypanam (Apr 3, 2013)

The Boy said:


> I take it you mean Vern Cotter? If so, keep yer grubby mitts of him until PSA gets the boot.


 
That is what I meant. We won't get him.

We'll get stuck with the budget option it's like the FAI hiring Steve Staunton. It'll take some deranged fan touting a gun in Malahide to get rid of the next manager. Irish solution to an Irish problem.


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 3, 2013)

Big fan of Kidney.
Finally won us the slam that the Golden Generation had long deserved.
Will always have a home back in Munster.

It's probably for the best he step down.  The media circus was getting riduculous, every interview he gave they were questioning his future.
The squad is in transition, let someone else take over the reins.

What are the options?

Domestically:
Eric Elwood and 3 kiwis- all unlikely options, despite the successes of schmidt and anscombe
Nationally:
McCall & O'Shea... any other obvious ones?

Internationally:
Cheika?
Eddie Jones?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 4, 2013)

I'd like to see O'Shea take over. I think he's a great coach and comes across well in interviews all the time.


----------



## flypanam (Apr 4, 2013)

O'shea won't touch it. The Reds coach Mackenzie is most likely or as the IRFU finances are not that hot Les Kiss.

Schmidt would be ideal. As Thornley was saying it would be good experience for him before he got the ABs gig.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 4, 2013)

flypanam said:


> O'shea won't touch it. The Reds coach Mackenzie is most likely or as the IRFU finances are not that hot Les Kiss.
> 
> Schmidt would be ideal. As Thornley was saying it would be good experience for him before he got the ABs gig.



Sure I read somewhere that Schmidt wouldn't want the gig and that there's beef between him and the IRFU. Am I making this up or is there any truth in it?


----------



## bendeus (Apr 4, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Big fan of Kidney.
> Finally won us the slam that the Golden Generation had long deserved.
> Will always have a home back in Munster.
> 
> ...



I'm amazed nobody is mentioning Gareth Jenkins.


----------



## flypanam (Apr 4, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Sure I read somewhere that Schmidt wouldn't want the gig and that there's beef between him and the IRFU. Am I making this up or is there any truth in it?


 
Not sure about any dispute, but i do know Mrs Schmidt ain't so happy in Dublin. It's the weather you see. Not warm enough plus her kids want to go to uni in Auckland.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 4, 2013)

BOOM! The regions have gone for the jugular. Gunning for Lewis, big time, and already exposing some of the deceit and mistruths gurned out by the WRU. This is beautiful:



> Regional Rugby Wales, the organisation which represents the four Welsh regions, the Scarlets, the Ospreys, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues has issued the following joint statement in response to recent communication from the WRU
> Regional Rugby Wales (RRW) calls on the Chief Executive of the WRU, as the leader of the Executive of Welsh rugby's governing body, not to stall the rightful purpose and direction of the agreed and democratic PRGB (Professional Regional Game Board).
> RRW urges the WRU not to side-track discussions or detract from the recommendations of the WRU's own independent report undertaken by PWC and completed in October 2012.
> 
> ...



http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6337.php

Make no mistake, this is war, and someone's going to have to walk at the end of this.

Welsh rugby, from VE Day to Dunkirk in the space of two weeks.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 4, 2013)

And the Guardian's summation of the situation,



> Wales's four regions want an independent arbitrator to be brought in to end the deadlock with the Welsh Rugby Union over the way the professional game should be run amid fears the governing body would like to see them go out of business and then take them over.
> 
> A war of words between the two sides broke out after last weekend's successful regional double-header at the Millennium Stadium. The move of the Wales wing George North from the Scarlets to Northampton was the catalyst for the dispute, with the regions wanting help from the WRU to keep leading players in Wales.
> 
> ...



Getting very interesting all of a sudden.


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 5, 2013)

> Does the WRU consider it is acting with integrity as it seeks to play out its position in the public arena first without reference or discussions with the Four Regions and an opportunity to discuss privately?


 
Ouch!

That's about a damning question as you can get in business speak.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 5, 2013)

Teaboy said:


> Ouch!
> 
> That's about a damning question as you can get in business speak.



I quite liked this one as well,



> "The Professional game in Wales is in decline. We need solid, democratic action to halt that. Continuing to reduce bank debt, investing in hospitality boxes and other capital scheme are strategic choices made by the WRU, which may or may not be the best use of resources; and we are not in a position to judge.



They're basically dissing the WRU's entire business strategy.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 6, 2013)

This man is an utter bellend. If he'd shown any kind of quality in the last two seasons, maybe; but really........


----------



## bendeus (Apr 6, 2013)

Maybe, just maybe he'd want to knuckle down and demonstrate his quality with actions rather than idiocy. Lucky for him that Gutlund is a sucker for extravagant, hollow gestures rather than proper international class....... oh!


----------



## bendeus (Apr 7, 2013)

This is very, very interesting. French doping tests indicate that Rugby Union returned the highest number of positives of any sport last year. Claims that rugby is the next cycling in terms of sheer penetration of the practice. The following includes an interview with Ellisalde, who claims amphetamine abuse was commonplace in the 70s and 80s. Doesn't surprise me, tbh. It would fuck the sport proper if this were to be true, mind:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...oping-is-rife-in-the-code-20130406-2hdmn.html


----------



## trampie (Apr 7, 2013)

bendeus said:


> trampie: notice you're on ScumV arguing for central contracts as a panacea for the ongoing car crash that is Welsh rygbi. Care to share your vision on here?


No problem if you say who you are on the Welsh message boards ?, you can pm me if you like.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 7, 2013)

trampie said:


> No problem if you say who you are on the Welsh message boards ?, you can pm me if you like.


Bendeus in Gwlad. No ID on Scum V. More of a lurker, tbh (as my 13 posts since 2005 will attest to). Can't handle the constant bunfights.


----------



## trampie (Apr 7, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Bendeus in Gwlad. No ID on Scum V. More of a lurker, tbh (as my 13 posts since 2005 will attest to). Can't handle the constant bunfights.


Gwlad banned me just like Scarlet Fever for supporting my village team and me comparing how much more successful my village team was compared too Cardiff and Llanelli, all facts and figures of course, but they didn't like it, petty and sad on their part really, one village supporter versus scores of supporters from the big teams, yet they couldn't take the banter because they couldn't win an argument, the truth hurts i suppose.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 7, 2013)

trampie said:


> Gwlad banned me just like Scarlet Fever for supporting my village team and me comparing how much more successful my village team was compared too Cardiff and Llanelli, all facts and figures of course, but they didn't like it, petty and sad on their part really, one village supporter versus scores of supporters from the big teams, yet they couldn't take the banter because they couldn't win an argument, the truth hurts i suppose.



You were actually referenced on Gwlad as 'that loon from Glynneath' only two days ago, IIRC


----------



## trampie (Apr 7, 2013)

bendeus said:


> You were actually referenced on Gwlad as 'that loon from Glynneath' only two days ago, IIRC


Some would say that there is more than one loon from Glynneath, therefore they could have been off about somebody else, they still wouldn't be talking about me, would they ?, i only made a small amount of posts [ages ago now], so few i don't know if i even made three figures.
Why do you post on there ?, you mention bun fights, that place is one huge big bun fight, only like minded people are allowed to post, if you don't conform they kick you out, yet they allow all sorts of bad behaviour as long as you are part of the gang of bullies, you are part of the gang are you bendeus ?


----------



## bendeus (Apr 7, 2013)

trampie said:


> Some would say that there is more than one loon from Glynneath, therefore they could have been off about somebody else, they still wouldn't be talking about me, would they ?, i only made a small amount of posts [ages ago now], so few i don't know if i even made three figures.
> Why do you post on there ?, you mention bun fights, that place is one huge big bun fight, only like minded people are allowed to post, if you don't conform they kick you out, yet they allow all sorts of bad behaviour as long as you are part of the gang of bullies, you are part of the gang are you bendeus ?



Eh? No. 13 posts in just under a decade would say I'm not a part of any 'gang'. 

I go on Gwlad because, for all the fighting, arguing and name-calling it is the most articulate, informed and well-sourced place on the Internet to learn about the game I love. 

Anyway, central contracts? 

E2A: you do still come up in dispatches. You're something of a minor legend on there


----------



## trampie (Apr 7, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Eh? No. 13 posts in just under a decade would say I'm not a part of any 'gang'.
> 
> I go on Gwlad because, for all the fighting, arguing and name-calling it is the most articulate, informed and well-sourced place on the Internet to learn about the game I love.
> 
> ...


You obviously know my views, you want me to express my views for this board but is this board interested in Welsh rugby ?, i think not.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 7, 2013)

No, I only know you're pro CCs from one post you made on a thread I glanced at but didn't read in full. You're under no obligation to explain your reasoning on here but I was interested in hearing a countervailing view to my own (after much flip flopping I now think I'm against them). 

It feels like you think I'm trying to pull a fast one on you. Nothing could be further from the truth. And I'd say some people may be interested. Rugby structure, governance, financing and administration are fairly hot topics at present.

Anyway, whatever


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 8, 2013)

trampie said:


> You obviously know my views, you want me to express my views for this board but is this board interested in Welsh rugby ?, i think not.


 
Not the whole board, no.

But there is a thread on the board, dedicated to Rugby Union, particularly this season.
A place where such views might be appreciated.


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 8, 2013)

What a win.
What an electric atmosphere.
Why have we this misfortune of travelling away to Clermont?

Lions Captain!


----------



## bendeus (Apr 9, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> What a win.
> What an electric atmosphere.
> Why have we this misfortune of travelling away to Clermont?
> 
> Lions Captain!



Very impressive result. Thought he was fecked, RF

Captain? Nah. Didn't do a great job last time. Will Defoe tour and be close to the XV.


----------



## The Boy (Apr 9, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Why have we this misfortune of travelling away to Clermont?
> 
> Lions Captain!


 
To be fair, Clermont are playing away too.  Should be a decent pair of matches though.   Might have to find a pub showing them or summat.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 10, 2013)

Only watched Clermont-Montpellier and Sarries-Ulster but can't see Clermont losing to anyone really. Just so much class in the backs. Sarries just seemed to be against and underperforming Ulster side but did play well.

All French final?


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 10, 2013)

Also, Sarries and Exeter have decided to have a minutes silence for Maggie. Exeter are at home to L. Irish, so can't see that one going down well with the away supporters!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22090358


----------



## bendeus (Apr 10, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Only watched Clermont-Montpellier and Sarries-Ulster but can't see Clermont losing to anyone really. Just so much class in the backs. Sarries just seemed to be against and underperforming Ulster side but did play well.
> 
> All French final?


 
Hope so. Not a fan of anti-rugby of Saffacens


----------



## bendeus (Apr 10, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Also, Sarries and Exeter have decided to have a minutes silence for Maggie. Exeter are at home to L. Irish, so can't see that one going down well with the away supporters!
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22090358


 
Some jeering would be noteworthy. And excellent.


----------



## starfish (Apr 20, 2013)

Always nice to beat Leicester


----------



## bendeus (Apr 22, 2013)

mattie

Like all your wildest dreams, Christmases and furtive nocturnal fantasies rolled into one perfect, orange package:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22248375

He's coming......


----------



## The Boy (Apr 23, 2013)




----------



## bendeus (Apr 23, 2013)

I feel particularly sorry for Gusset now he's about to be relegated to the position of second classiest centre ever to grace the Bath shirt over the course of their illustrious history. 

(((Big Jerry)))


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 23, 2013)

On the topic of Welsh internationals and new opportunities:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22250876

What a joker. 

Asked why he was driving a golf buggy down the M4 while shitfaced, replied, "Everyone's done it, haven't they?"

Good luck to him and Wigan.


----------



## bendeus (Apr 23, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> On the topic of Welsh internationals and new opportunities:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/22250876
> 
> ...



Reckon Mongo will make an epic grass shagger


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 25, 2013)

Cipriani hit by a bus while on a night out with friends. He's now in hospital. Hope he's OK but ffs, he's worse than Henson...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22290900


----------



## bendeus (Apr 25, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Cipriani hit by a bus while on a night out with friends. He's now in hospital. Hope he's OK but ffs, he's worse than Henson...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/22290900


Both on and off the pitch


----------



## Red Faction (Apr 26, 2013)

Quote from Powell:

Cipriani's been double deckered!
#besttackleoftheseason

Lolz


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 29, 2013)

All French final (well Toulon play in France just without many French players)

Really hope Wilkinson carries on with this form and wins it with a drop goal a la 2003.


----------



## The Boy (Apr 29, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Really hope Wilkinson carries on with this form and wins it with a drop goal a la 2003.


 
Fuck off!  Hat-trick of tries for Nalaga, and Parra to kick the twitching corpse of Toulon into oblivion.


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 29, 2013)

The Boy said:


> Fuck off! Hat-trick of tries for Nalaga, and Parra to kick the twitching corpse of Toulon into oblivion.


 
But, but Jonny...


----------



## The Boy (Apr 29, 2013)

The sad thing is, I reckon your version is more likely to be the accurate prediction


----------



## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 29, 2013)

As a whole team, Clermont are much better to watch and they deserve to win for the style of rugby they play. But it's just brilliant to to see Wilkinson back playing like he used to before all the injuries.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Apr 29, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Quote from Powell:
> 
> Cipriani's been double deckered!
> #besttackleoftheseason
> ...


 
I have it on excellent authority hey were in the Arc bar in Headingley, Leeds where they ran up a £1k+ bar bill and then on the way into the city centre decided to play a game of chicken with the buses. No joke..


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## Red Faction (Apr 30, 2013)

Joe Schmidt!!

My goodness, glad I didn't put a punt on in the end.  
Would have lost my money!


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## ReturnOfElfman (Apr 30, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> Joe Schmidt!!
> 
> My goodness, glad I didn't put a punt on in the end.
> Would have lost my money!


 
Good appointment though.


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## Red Faction (Apr 30, 2013)

We'll see.

I think he's taken on a poisoned chalice:

a squad in major transition, some clear frictions

I think he's potentially being set up to fail (not intentionally of course).

His Ireland spell will end in "failure", despite finally moudling them into a decent outfit, at the expense of immediate results.

His successor will walk into the fruits of his labour and reap the rewards at his expense. 

He is arguably one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) candidate for the job.  

 Good luck to him


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## bendeus (Apr 30, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> We'll see.
> 
> I think he's taken on a poisoned chalice:
> 
> ...


 
Ever the optimist, RF. But yeah, he has his work cut out. There's a fair bit of shaping, moulding and repositioning to be done before Ireland become the sum of their considerable parts IMO.

Sounds like you see Schmidt as being in the same mould as Steve Hansen was for us (though you're far less shit than we were when SH took over)


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## bendeus (May 3, 2013)

I'm currently watching Leinster Ospreys in the Rabo . Great game, incidentally, but I'd just like to say, Justin Tipuric! Fucking hell but he's a special, special player. Like the perfect hybrid of Warburton and Nugget; awesome physicality, freakish speed and an astonishing rugby brain. I don't think I've been as excited about a player coming through for a long time.


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## ReturnOfElfman (May 14, 2013)

It's finals time!

HC - Clermont vs Toulon
EP - Leicester vs Northampton
Pro12 - Ulster vs Leinster
AC - Stade vs Leinster
EC - Newcastle vs Bedford


So, who's going to win these over the next couple of weeks?

I'll go for Clermont, Leicester, Ulster, Leinster and Newcastle

Apols if I missed any other finals worth mentioning. Top14 won't be decided until June 1st...


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## The Boy (May 14, 2013)

ASM, Leicester, Ulster, Leinster, Newcastle, plus ASM for the Top14.


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## Red Faction (May 17, 2013)

Clermont, Saints, Ulster, Leinster, Newcastle


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## sleaterkinney (May 17, 2013)

Watching the Amlin, can't wait to see Joe schmit coaching Ireland. Leinster play some great rugby.


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## bendeus (May 17, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> Watching the Amlin, can't wait to see Joe schmit coaching Ireland. Leinster play some great rugby.


 
Yeah. He seems to get the best out of players - not all of those Leinster players are of the class that they mix in but he turns them into effective parts of a whole. He'll be good for you, I reckon.


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## coley (May 18, 2013)

Can anyone explain how the falcons have ended up top of the league but still have to go through the 'playoffs' to qualify for the Aviva league 
Lucky bliddy Leinster!


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## bendeus (May 18, 2013)

Blazers at PRL and the RFU running a partial closed shop. Want to protect their favoured clubs. Even more iniquitous is the fact that promoted teams get a fraction of the revenue from the AP: £1.5m compared to C.£3.5m (iirc) for the first three years after promotion and that relegated clubs still get the higher number for having been in the AP for a certain period. For example, relegated Newcastle were getting more revenue last year than promoted London Welsh. Add to that the fact that other clubs such as Bristol and Leeds, relegated respectively two and three years ago, were also on more money than London Welsh AND the fact that clubs can be blocked from going up if their grounds don't meet certain specifications then Gareth Thomas MP's claims that the AP is run as a cartel and should be referred to the competition commission seem to have some substance:

http://www.london-welsh.co.uk/index.php?mod=news_view&id=1604


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## starfish (May 18, 2013)

Pretty exciting final, certainly picked up a bit in the second half.


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## coley (May 19, 2013)

starfish said:


> Pretty exciting final, certainly picked up a bit in the second half.



Certainly did, though in the first 10 minutes I thought the Falcons were going to make it a walk in the park, is Hennessy an Irish name?


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## bendeus (May 19, 2013)

Erm, are you talking about the same final?


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## ReturnOfElfman (May 20, 2013)

Heineken Cup final was good anyway. Not much better than a 1 point final. Gets you on the edge of your seat


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## coley (May 20, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Erm, are you talking about the same final?



Nope, Anglo Irish, forgot about the French gig


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## The Boy (May 20, 2013)

The Boy said:


> Fuck off! Hat-trick of tries for Nalaga, and Parra to kick the twitching corpse of Toulon into oblivion.





ReturnOfElfman said:


> But, but Jonny...





The Boy said:


> The sad thing is, I reckon your version is more likely to be the accurate prediction


 
Oh dear


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## ReturnOfElfman (May 20, 2013)

Didn't Wilko charge down an attempted drop goal near the end too? (it was either him or Bastereux (sp?))

I honestly thought Toulon would have no chance but they just somehow stuck in there.


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## The Boy (Jun 2, 2013)

Back in September, when I had just started my job in a bookies, I was finding my way around the price finders we have and happened upon the prices for the Top14 outrights.  My manager spotted what I was looking at and asked what I reckoned on the outcome.  My reply was something along the lines of "ToO close to call, especially at those prices.  But Castres look like good value seeing as anything can happen in a knock-out situation."

Didn't back them obvs.  Think I'm the shittest gambler ever .


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## gabi (Jun 17, 2013)

Not sure if any of you rugbyheads saw the All Blacks game over the weekend but it was quite impressive. I know France aren't the greatest at the moment but they were demolished. Our new young half-back looks the business but still not sure on Cruden. Also not sure Dan Carter literally standing behind him every time he kicks for goal is particularly helpful.


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## Teaboy (Jun 17, 2013)

gabi said:


> Not sure if any of you rugbyheads saw the All Blacks game over the weekend but it was quite impressive. I know France aren't the greatest at the moment but they were demolished. Our new young half-back looks the business but still not sure on Cruden. Also not sure Dan Carter literally standing behind him every time he kicks for goal is particularly helpful.


 
I saw it and thought the result was a bit harsh on France, they dominated possession for long periods in the second half but thanks to some fine defence by NZ and the supremely bad decision making (and execution for that matter) of Michelak they never really look like getting over the try line.  NZ were certainly the better team and deadly on the counter but France are better then that display.  Saint Andre is making some blatantly poor selections and I don't think they can allow that to happen much longer.


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## The Boy (Jun 18, 2013)

It was odd how they (France) performed more poorly once the players who were absent through domestic duties returned.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jun 20, 2013)

England and Wales in the Junior World Championship final, beating NZ and SA in the semis. Final is on Sunday


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## agricola (Jun 22, 2013)

Anyone watching SA vs Samoa?  Evil, evil game, Tuilangi just sent off for trying to behead someone.


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## bendeus (Jun 22, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> England and Wales in the Junior World Championship final, beating NZ and SA in the semis. Final is on Sunday



Excited about this. There's some real prospects in both sides. England pack is mammoth and surprisingly mobile. Did a number on us in the Junior 6N. Not sure if we can step up sufficiently to nail this, but it would be ffycin great if we did.


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## starfish (Jun 24, 2013)

agricola said:


> Anyone watching SA vs Samoa? Evil, evil game, Tuilangi just sent off for trying to behead someone.


 
Missed that but caught our remarkable last ditch comeback against Italy.


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## Red Faction (Jul 2, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23140518

Cockerill suspended for 9 games for being a wanker

Good.  Hopefully lesson learned.


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## bendeus (Jul 2, 2013)

Red Faction said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23140518
> 
> Cockerill suspended for 9 games for being a wanker
> 
> Good.  Hopefully lesson learned.



Doubt it. Cockers is gobshite to the bone


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## gabi (Jul 12, 2013)

Christ.. Very rarely watch super rugby. But walked into a bar here in hk and the crusaders v hurricanes is on.. It's like a different fucking sport! Like sevens but with 15 players


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## ReturnOfElfman (Jul 12, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Doubt it. Cockers is gobshite to the bone


 
he is but he's good entertainment


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 5, 2013)

Just been watching the Super Rugby final. Absolutely brilliant to watch. Such high tempo and attacking rugby. If you can, download it and also watch the semi-finals too as they were great too.


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## gabi (Aug 5, 2013)

Yeh, i watched the final. the speed  it makes watching the lions v australia look like slow motion.


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## Teaboy (Aug 8, 2013)

Looks like saints are keeping u75 favourite and all round nice guy Dylan Hartley on as captain this season. 

Strikes me as a very odd choice for two reasons.  Firstly his disciplinary record should have excluded him from being considered in the first place and definitely should have meant he was stripped of it after his latest mess.  And secondly part of the captain's job is to communicate with the ref and try to get him on-side, after calling one of their number a cheat it seems unlikely any ref is going to give him the time of day.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23617352


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## bendeus (Aug 8, 2013)

Given the obvious thug culture at Saints and the fact that with his weasel excuses Mallinder consistently condones it it should be no surprise that a wanker like Hartley retains the armband. Like every good captain he is the epitome of his team.


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 8, 2013)

bendeus said:


> Given the obvious thug culture at Saints and the fact that with his weasel excuses Mallinder consistently condones it it should be no surprise that a wanker like Hartley retains the armband. Like every good captain he is the epitome of his team.


 

Heard the main reason they got North was because they thought he was a perfect fit for the culture of the team


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## bendeus (Aug 8, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Heard the main reason they got North was because they thought he was a perfect fit for the culture of the team


I think Sleater has already tried that tactic during his short-lived 'Gogzilla is the devil' campaign


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## ReturnOfElfman (Aug 31, 2013)

Josh Lewsey appointed Welsh Rugby Union's head of rugby. With his previous experience coming from being an acting chief executive at the Cornish Pirates. He's always come across as an intelligent guy but it seems a bit of a big step


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## bendeus (Aug 31, 2013)

ReturnOfElfman said:


> Josh Lewsey appointed Welsh Rugby Union's head of rugby. With his previous experience coming from being an acting chief executive at the Cornish Pirates. He's always come across as an intelligent guy but it seems a bit of a big step



Taffy Josh returns to his roots


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