# The Welsh Accent - Has it softened in recent years?



## munkeeunit (Aug 24, 2006)

As a child, and early teenager (some 20+yrs ago), I seem to remember the Welsh accent generally being quite harsh, and a little hard on the ear. I'm sure there's more than one accent across the country, but it stuck in my mind as having quite a cutting tone to it.

Maybe this was partly social and political, what with the miners strikes, and generally a far more grinding level of poverty than seems to be the case today, giving an angery undertone to the accent?

Or maybe, as languages do, it has simply changed over the years, as nowadays I find the Welsh accent to be generally very soothing and pleasant to the ear. Is this just me, or do others feel the accent has generally softened in the last 20 years or so?


----------



## Belushi (Aug 24, 2006)

Well, which Welsh accent do you mean?

And accents do change over the years - you only have to listen to an elderly Londoner and a young Londoner to realise that. 

I suspect all national and regional accents in Britain have become more homogenous due to improved communications, mobility etc and are likely to become even more so in the future.


----------



## munkeeunit (Aug 24, 2006)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Well, which Welsh accent do you mean?



I don't really know my Welsh accents apart, more of a general observation over time.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 24, 2006)

TV I would have thought. Things sound more and more similar.


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2006)

Some Keyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaardiff accents seem to be getting worse, likes.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 24, 2006)

you knows it spa !


----------



## llantwit (Aug 24, 2006)

editor said:
			
		

> Some Keyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaardiff accents seem to be getting worse, likes.


You luvs it, you does.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 24, 2006)

safe init


----------



## Brockway (Aug 24, 2006)

munkeeunit said:
			
		

> I'm sure there's more than one accent across the country.



Yes mate - there are 3.  I suppose you mean a Valleys' accent which constitutes a Welsh accent to most English people. No it hasn't got any softer. Does poverty really affect accents? You're fucking nuts.


----------



## colacho (Aug 24, 2006)

It's all so subjective how can you make a judgement? Most people I know in England have always found a valleys accent pretty mellifluous...
It has changed, though, without doubt- far more glottal stops, diphthongs and triphthongs in S. Wales now, something I personally don't like very much.


----------



## ZIZI (Aug 24, 2006)

colacho said:
			
		

> It's all so subjective how can you make a judgement? Most people I know in England have always found a valleys accent pretty mellifluous...
> It has changed, though, without doubt- far more glottal stops, diphthongs and triphthongs in S. Wales now, something I personally don't like very much.




Which valley do you mean? 

Each valley has a different sound. A Rhondda accent for example is far different from a Rhymney valley accent and compared to the Merthyr valleys it is quite posh.

Cardiff have an accent unique to Cardiff as do Newport who sound English (well at least to me-a Rhymney valley girl). The further mid Wales you go the accent gets softer but then by the time you get to the north its all nasal and spit.


----------



## munkeeunit (Aug 24, 2006)

Brockway said:
			
		

> Does poverty really affect accents? You're fucking nuts.



I think at certain moments in time it does, yes, definitely, and the 70's and 80's were a particular moment in time when there was much more anger around.


----------



## munkeeunit (Aug 24, 2006)

ZIZI said:
			
		

> Each valley has a different sound. A Rhondda accent for example is far different from a Rhymney valley accent and compared to the Merthyr valleys it is quite posh.
> 
> Cardiff have an accent unique to Cardiff as do Newport who sound English (well at least to me-a Rhymney valley girl). The further mid Wales you go the accent gets softer but then by the time you get to the north its all nasal and spit.



Ok, I figure my comparison over time is going to be more the south, as there seems to be a fair deal of intermixing between south wales generally, and Bristol area.


----------



## Biffo (Aug 24, 2006)

North West Wales = Glyn from Big Brother/a bit Scandanavian and weird
North East Wales = Sudo-Scouse
Mid Wales = Fairly neuteral, a bit of a mix 
Cardiff = Kayaaaardiff Cockney
Newport = Rewnd the rewndebewt
Swansea/Rhondda/Bridgend = Welshy
Carmarthenshire and North Pembs = Really Welshy
South Pembs = Neuteral, little England beyond Wales
Anglessy = Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Feel free to edit and add to.


----------



## RubberBuccaneer (Aug 24, 2006)

munkeeunit said:
			
		

> Ok, I figure my comparison over time is going to be more the south, as there seems to be a fair deal of intermixing between south wales generally, and Bristol area.



Don't start that again - Bristol and Cardiff don't mix


----------



## RubberBuccaneer (Aug 24, 2006)

Biffo said:
			
		

> North West Wales = Glyn from Big Brother/a bit Scandanavian and weird *like saying daw daw all the time*
> North East Wales = Sudo-Scouse *agreed*
> Mid Wales = Fairly neuteral, a bit of a mix *non-descript more depends on rurality i.e. burr if by Hereford way, more discernably Welsh if Aber way*
> Cardiff = Kayaaaardiff Cockney *Bollocks, a beautiful twang*
> ...



*Cheers - have done*


----------



## Brockway (Aug 24, 2006)

munkeeunit said:
			
		

> I think at certain moments in time it does, yes, definitely, and the 70's and 80's were a particular moment in time when there was much more anger around.



So if you get less money in your wage packet it makes you pronounce your vowels differently. Interesting theory....


----------



## phildwyer (Aug 24, 2006)

Old blokes I've asked about this reckon all regional accents have softened since they were young.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 24, 2006)

phildwyer said:
			
		

> Old blokes I've asked about this reckon all regional accents have softened since they were young.



I think thats true - I think of my old Welsh and old Londoner relatives and they all had stronger accents than today.


----------



## Brockway (Aug 24, 2006)

Biffo said:
			
		

> Cardiff = Kayaaaardiff Cockney



East Cardiff ie Llanrumney, has a touch of Newport worzel in it. North Cardiff is the poshest. To my ears Ely sounds the most "Welsh" in the sense that monkeeunit thinks of a Welsh accent. South Cardiff you can detect strong Irish and West Country lilts. Riverside a mix of Asian Welsh and faux Cockney.


----------



## Brockway (Aug 24, 2006)

phildwyer said:
			
		

> Old blokes I've asked about this reckon all regional accents have softened since they were young.



They also think Wagon Wheels are smaller.


----------



## niclas (Aug 24, 2006)

RubberBuccaneer said:
			
		

> Originally Posted by Biffo
> North West Wales = Glyn from Big Brother/a bit Scandanavian and weird like saying daw daw all the time
> North East Wales = Sudo-Scouse agreed
> Mid Wales = Fairly neuteral, a bit of a mix non-descript more depends on rurality i.e. burr if by Hereford way, more discernably Welsh if Aber way
> ...



Best stick to what you know Rubber...

N E Wales ain't pseudo-Scouse, although the last generation has seen the entire coast from Flint up to Colwyn Bay adopt a sub-Scouse accent that's also common in Deeside and Chester. But the real N E Wales accents are Flintshire and Wrexham. Wrexham's has got more of a Shropshire twang about it but is far more Welsh sounding than the Deesiders. And if you want to get very particular about this, you can still tell if someone's a Jacko (from the village of Rhosllannerchrugog) the minute they open their gob. 

The same is true of Barmouth - they're all Brummies there.

N W Wales - Ever heard of Bangor Aye? Totally different accent to Caernarfon Cofis. Agreed the Ynys Mon yodellers speak through their noses - very strange people.

Machynlleth - that mysterious place where Gog turns to Hwntw... legend has it that there's a pub with a public and lounge bars. You speak Gog in the lounge and Hwntw in bar. The English go to the snug.

Montgomery has its own accent - lovely. Most distinct for elongating "e" in place of "a", so "bach" become "beeeeeeeech". Hyfryd iawn.

The South? All sounds the same to me?  

It's an interesting question - my kids sometimes use Cockney-style glottal stops they've picked up off the telly.


----------



## RubberBuccaneer (Aug 24, 2006)

niclas said:
			
		

> Best stick to what you know Rubber...
> 
> N E Wales ain't pseudo-Scouse, although the last generation has seen the entire coast from Flint up to Colwyn Bay adopt a sub-Scouse accent that's also common in Deeside and Chester. But the real N E Wales accents are Flintshire and Wrexham. Wrexham's has got more of a Shropshire twang about it but is far more Welsh sounding than the Deesiders. And if you want to get very particular about this, you can still tell if someone's a Jacko (from the village of Rhosllannerchrugog) the minute they open their gob.
> 
> ...



How can you have a _real_ N.E. surely the pseudo scouse ones are from the N.E, as well.


----------



## Biffo (Aug 24, 2006)

It's great that such a small country has so many accents isn't see? There's lovely. Tidy darts


----------



## munkeeunit (Aug 24, 2006)

Biffo said:
			
		

> It's great that such a small country has so many accents isn't see? There's lovely. Tidy darts



Now, even though that's just typed words, it sounded lush


----------



## davesgcr (Aug 25, 2006)

Swansea used to have its own distinctive "metropolitan" accent - well it did to us from the wide open ranges of the Ammanford area ......

Agree though on the lovely and distinctive Mid Wakes accent - quite rounded and very pleasant. 

Everythign changes over time though - the survival of all accents is a minor miracle after the efforts of BBC English and now the media global world.


----------



## munkeeunit (Aug 25, 2006)

RubberBuccaneer said:
			
		

> Don't start that again - Bristol and Cardiff don't mix



I smell a Bristol / Cardiff half-breed in denial of the tractooorrrr blood coursing through his veins 

That your tagline reads 'sitting in a tree' is a dead giveaway of your wurzel inclinations.


----------



## ZIZI (Aug 25, 2006)

munkeeunit said:
			
		

> Ok, I figure my comparison over time is going to be more the south, as there seems to be a fair deal of intermixing between south wales generally, and Bristol area.



UUHH, WAD U SAY?? There aint no banjo playing round these parts butt


----------



## Karac (Aug 25, 2006)

N E Wales ain't pseudo-Scouse, although the last generation has seen the entire coast from Flint up to Colwyn Bay adopt a sub-Scouse accent that's also common in Deeside and Chester
Whys that?


----------



## niclas (Aug 25, 2006)

Karac said:
			
		

> N E Wales ain't pseudo-Scouse, although the last generation has seen the entire coast from Flint up to Colwyn Bay adopt a sub-Scouse accent that's also common in Deeside and Chester
> Whys that?



The most obvious explanation is in-migration - more than 50% of the population of Rhyl was born in England, so it's not surprising the accent has changed. The same is true right along the coast.


----------



## DalstonExpress (Aug 25, 2006)

Accents are the prime method of social _and generational_ identification and recognition. They have to change over time or there'd be no point.


----------



## *Miss Daisy* (Aug 25, 2006)

RubberBuccaneer said:
			
		

> *Cheers - have done*


  errrr, I dont know what my accents like,, I'm from, in between newport and abergavenny,,  I certainly dont talk likes I'm from Pil/ll right,  Abergavenny is more welsh than me, i think, 
and now i live with a brixton boy, so I find myself saying _'Baked'_ and worta instead of waTer,,

I hate talking on answer phones, coz I always think I sound really welsh and dull, and dopey,,

Oh yeah,, and i found this little site http://www.talktidy.com/xoops/html/modules/Talktidy/index.php/index.html
click on the A-Z on the left hand side,,

Ach-a-fi !!!


----------



## geminisnake (Aug 25, 2006)

I dunno about accents throughout Wales but I have noticed the welsh bloke on the Extreme Archeology programmes says humans funny. He says some other words funny but I can't think just now, they're all oo type words though.

Is that local to a particular area of Wales?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 26, 2006)

come back to us Miss D and never be embarrassed!


----------



## ddraig (Aug 26, 2006)

wht a-z?


----------



## *Miss Daisy* (Aug 26, 2006)

http://www.talktidy.com/xoops/html/modules/Talktidy/index.php/tt-a.html

next to the Large A theres 26 letters rangeing from A right through to Z you cant miss it!!,,, 



> *Ages: Frages/'issages*
> *'Frages' *is Wenglish for 'for ages' and 'issages' is the Wenglish equivalent of 'this ages': "I haven't seen you frages.", or "I haven't been to the pictures 'issages.".


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Aug 26, 2006)

Brockway said:
			
		

> East Cardiff ie Llanrumney, has a touch of Newport worzel in it. North Cardiff is the poshest. To my ears Ely sounds the most "Welsh" in the sense that monkeeunit thinks of a Welsh accent. South Cardiff you can detect strong Irish and West Country lilts. Riverside a mix of Asian Welsh and faux Cockney.



Nobodys mentioned liverpuddlian
I think a really broad kaiirdiff accent can sound scouse 

and since when has the kairdiff accent encompassed a welsh accent anyways? there is very little thats welsh about a kaiirdiff accent any more, I belive as a result of it being full of imcommers through generations via the docks and heavy industry

The  kairdiff accent is about as english as you'll get outside of monmouth/newport areas


----------



## ddraig (Aug 26, 2006)

*Miss Daisy* said:
			
		

> http://www.talktidy.com/xoops/html/modules/Talktidy/index.php/tt-a.html
> 
> next to the Large A theres 26 letters rangeing from A right through to Z you cant miss it!!,,,


 i really can't see it! might not work in firefox i spose


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Aug 26, 2006)

That wenglish site didn t have 'I do' in it
In the rhymney valley ' I do go' - meaning I go or I went or regularly..... is widely used

as is " I do do" .... whatever activity follows means "I go to or I partake in ( in the strictest sense of the word anyway
so you get things like " On thursday I do go to the bingo"
Or I do do go up the chippy on friday ( meaning I went or I will to the chippy on friday)

Hearing people say " I do do" is like hearing a stutter to someone from outside the area


----------



## ddraig (Aug 26, 2006)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Nobodys mentioned liverpuddlian
> I think a really broad kaiirdiff accent can sound scouse
> 
> and since when has the kairdiff accent encompassed a welsh accent anyways? there is very little thats welsh about a kaiirdiff accent any more, I belive as a result of it being full of imcommers through generations via the docks and heavy industry
> ...



reckon i agree with this most sensible post 

like ther is a big difference between Swansea and Llanelli accents to my ear and they're not really that far apart 15miles or so


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Aug 26, 2006)

Theres a world of difference
I Lived about as close to Llanelli as was possible apart from living in gorseinon ( which had its own swansea valleys accent) and I sound nothing like someone from llanelli( think BB imogen all over but thicker accent wise)

There are several swansea accents, a mumbles/west cross end accent ( think catherine Zeta bleeugh without the yank drawl)
Then theres west swansea generally with sketty, dunvant etc which is pretty similar to west cross/mumbles only not so defined/poooosh
Then you have town which is a mixture but mainly north and east swansea which are very welshy, think twin town munnnnnnnn innet Laav( hard E sound pronounced e-h- not eh pronounced a-y)very sing songey up and down pronounciation and long long vowels blayyyn ah mayyyys, penlaaaan, ( bonymaen)  bon ( pronounced bone) eeeeeeee maen ( as in mine- coal mine)

The line of separation being the east /west divide, generally along the line which isnt the tawe as some people think but I believe the mount pleasant area, north of that to townhill and cockett beynond into blaeeeanymaes the bonymean etc which liies in what is socially 'east' evrything else to the west

I would be mortified and so would my brothers if we spoke the 'east' accent
but my mates all get me to say want when were drinking for their amusement
The say want ( pronounced wont) up here in Caerphilly, I apparent say Wunt


----------



## rhys gethin (Sep 13, 2006)

Accents do change, but they stick too.   I was born in the Rhymni Valley and we moved to the Rhondda when I was five - but my accent is perceptibly different from my brother's, and he's only three years younger.   We were living in Bristol when my second daughter was born, and she couldn't talk when we moved - but when she started it was straight Bedminster (and least she's got over that now, thank God!).   There are a lot of forces making for sameness, but things working the other way too - listen to the very strange way 'Dillon' Thomas found it necessary to speak:  at least we're spared that crap!


----------



## rhys gethin (Sep 13, 2006)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Nobodys mentioned liverpuddlian
> I think a really broad kaiirdiff accent can sound scouse
> 
> and since when has the kairdiff accent encompassed a welsh accent anyways?
> The  kairdiff accent is about as english as you'll get outside of monmouth/newport areas



Don't you reckon that Scouse is a mixture of Gog, Irish and Lancashire? - I've met plenty of Liverpool people who speak better Welsh than I do, and it seems to me very close to other Gog accents - as compared with other bits of 'English' Wales, like Oswestry say, where I've also lived, which is much more 'Mid-Wales'ish.


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Sep 13, 2006)

Im not the best person to ask on that one I dont think, My mum is from Birkenhead so I hear souse V's birkenhead which is a variant.
I can associate the Kaaiiirdiff bits with scouse but Im not very good at disseminating it any further then


----------



## Buds (Sep 19, 2006)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> That wenglish site didn t have 'I do' in it
> In the rhymney valley ' I do go' - meaning I go or I went or regularly..... is widely used
> 
> as is " I do do" .... whatever activity follows means "I go to or I partake in ( in the strictest sense of the word anyway
> ...



I do talk like that I do but I'm from Tredegar and we do all talk proper tidy round here we do.

According to Wiki  it's from Welsh grammar.


----------



## welsh_beauty (Oct 8, 2006)

im from the valley (torfaen) used 2 b called gwent by the way so if anyone could inform me on what my accent sounds like i would be very grateful.


----------



## *Miss Daisy* (Oct 8, 2006)

welsh_beauty said:
			
		

> im from the valley (torfaen) used 2 b called gwent by the way so if anyone could inform me on what my accent sounds like i would be very grateful.


 that'll be like my accent then,,,   i still put gwent on letters i send home,, infact i put,,,

street name
torfaen,
Gwent,
S.wales

just incase like,,


----------

