# Change UK: Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group



## Kaka Tim (Feb 14, 2019)

is it bollocks? only time will tell

Breaking – multiple sources: Umunna to resign Labour whip tonight

anyway -  good riddance to the slippery careerist backstabbing tosser


----------



## Badgers (Feb 14, 2019)

Good


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 14, 2019)

Off you fuck


----------



## agricola (Feb 14, 2019)

I think its amazing that they can look at the way the 30-40 ERG have held this Government hostage and thought "_nah, the best thing for us 30-40 Labour rebels is to give up our seats at the next election_".


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 14, 2019)

no mention of the rumours on the graun's livefeed. hmmm.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 14, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> no mention of the rumours on the graun's livefeed. hmmm.


They're out of the loop


----------



## Voley (Feb 14, 2019)

The bit of Twitter I follow seems to think it's the Tories who are announcing something ...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 14, 2019)

If he does, he'll be all over the media for the next few days. 

But, i guess, short-term pain, for a long-term gain.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 14, 2019)

"sources close  to chuka" deny it. as you were

chuka umunna to resign - Twitter Search


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 14, 2019)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 14, 2019)

Bugger.


----------



## zahir (Feb 14, 2019)

I hadn’t seen this before but I guess it gives some background on Labour’s position on freedom of movement.

Chuka Umunna: We Should Be Prepared To Sacrifice Single Market Membership To Axe Freedom Of Movement


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Feb 14, 2019)

SLATER as they used to say round my way


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Feb 14, 2019)

Voley said:


> The bit of Twitter I follow seems to think it's the Tories who are announcing something ...


Get out of there before you die from all that smoke without fire inhalation, the secret killer!


----------



## likesfish (Feb 14, 2019)

Never going to happen the toad knows if he leaves labour's his chance to be the Uk's Obama would be gone for good.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2019)

The Tory party awaits with open arms.

"_Come home Chuka!_" they shout.


----------



## Voley (Feb 14, 2019)

Anna Soubry quitting seems to be getting retweeted a bit now.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 14, 2019)

Chuka Can’t.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 14, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Chuka Can’t.


Deserves a


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 14, 2019)

The Labour Party needs fewer Tories. Still a fair few to root out. Blair’s trial and execution should cause a few sphincters to twitch and resignations to follow.


----------



## MrSki (Feb 14, 2019)




----------



## Tankus (Feb 14, 2019)

_fuckerty bye _


----------



## Voley (Feb 18, 2019)

'Four Labour resignations this morning' according to Twitter rumour.

Several Labour MPs 'set to quit party'


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

‘Go on now go, walk out the door, don’t turn around now, you’re not welcome anymore.’


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

If chuka doesn't go they should chuck chuka


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

Announcement at 10am


----------



## Mr Moose (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> If chuka doesn't go they should chuck chuka



A modern tongue twister the old and young alike will enjoy


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

Well I guess, it'll make an interesting sideshow.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Well I guess, it'll make an interesting sideshow.



It may well be the Genesis of the Labour Party Diaspora!


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Announcement at 10am


What’s the source for this?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> What’s the source for this?



Sky are reporting there's to be an announcement at 10am, and are also saying it's expected at least 5 Labour MPs will be resigning.

Sky were also expecting to interview Tom Watson during this hour (8-9), but he has pulled out.

So, it certainly does seem like something is happening.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sky are reporting there's to be an announcement at 10am,


Cheers. I’ve seen other sources for the other stuff, but not the 10am announcement. Who is making the announcement? The Labour Party or the splitters?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheers. I’ve seen other sources for the other stuff, but not the 10am announcement. Who is making the announcement? The Labour Party or the splitters?



A 'group of Labour MPs', so I assume the splitters, by this comment, I guess they are setting-up a new party...



> A number of prominent Labour MPs are set to make an annoucement on the "future of British politics" amid rumours that they are resigning from the party.
> Group of Labour MPs to make major announcement on 'future of British politics' amid rumours of party split - follow live



It will be interesting to see what involvement, if any, the LibDems have in this "future of British politics", and if a handful of Tories decide to jump ship.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> A 'group of Labour MPs', so I assume the splitters, by this comment, I guess they are setting-up a new party...
> 
> A number of prominent Labour MPs are set to make an annoucement on the "future of British politics"


‘an annoucement on the "future of British politics"’ 

They hold a modest assessment of their own importance, then.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheers. I’ve seen other sources for the other stuff, but not the 10am announcement. Who is making the announcement? The Labour Party or the splitters?


at 10am members of the labour party but by 1005 they will be the splitters


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> ‘an annoucement on the "future of British politics"’
> 
> They hold a modest assessment of their own importance, then.



I was thinking the same. 

Still, as I said up thread, interesting sideshow.

Of course, the danger is they could end up splitting the Labour vote at the next GE.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I was thinking the same.
> 
> Still, as I said up thread, interesting sideshow.
> 
> Of course, the danger is they could end up splitting the Labour vote at the next GE.


yeh they'll get 5 votes and the labour will get the rest


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 18, 2019)

Would they fight their current constituencies? They'd have to target a handful of urban Remain seats wouldn't they? Bristol? Norwich? Brighton? Basically they'd be the Crap Greens.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> Would they fight their current constituencies? They'd have to target a handful of urban Remain seats wouldn't they? Bristol? Norwich? Brighton? Basically they'd be the Crap Greens.


That solves the problem of their party colour, then: crap green.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Until they announce their new party's name perhaps we Urbz should stick with "*FROTLPOC*" ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> That solves the problem of their party colour, then: crap green.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Until they announce their new party's name perhaps we Urbz should stick with "*FROTLPOC*" ?


fruit loops?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> fruit loops?


as opposed to _fruitcakes?_


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> as opposed to _fruitcakes?_


frotlpoc is more reminiscent of fruit loops than fruitcakes.

although in this instance the fruit loops are full of nuts


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 162217


Talking of which; _FROTLPOC _must be (burning hot) pissed off that they've missed out on the inspired party slogan of "_*S*trength *T*o *D*eliver" _which has just been nabbed by Arlene's mob.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

I can’t wait, people we will never hear of again having a moment in the sunshine. First item on sky news at 10 o’ clock on a Monday morning.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

As Tosh McDonald said last Sunday if they feel they have to leave they should just leave.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 18, 2019)

Chuka Umunna and other MPs set to quit Labour party



> About four or five MPs are likely to jump ship, with others considering leaving rumoured to include Chris Leslie, Luciana Berger, Gavin Shuker, Angela Smith and Mike Gapes.



titans i tell yer.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I can’t wait, people we will never hear of again having a moment in the sunshine. First item on sky news at 10 o’ clock on a Monday morning.


sunshine on a rainy day


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Chuka Umunna and other MPs set to quit Labour party
> 
> 
> 
> titans tits i tell yer.


c4u


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> sunshine on a rainy day



As my mum always said,
‘The sun always shines on the fucking self-righteous’


----------



## Mr Moose (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> at 10am members of the labour party but by 1005 they will be the splitters



My guess is that they will be long-winded bastards. 10.08.


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

leave means leave.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Mr Moose said:


> My guess is that they will be long-winded bastards. 10.08.


But not quite long-winded enough to mention that, as a matter of principle, they'll resign their seats gained as Labour candidates and seek re-election.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 18, 2019)

The black Macron....


----------



## Lorca (Feb 18, 2019)

Well i for one, salute their preparedness to sacrifice their political careers for their commitment to ideological purity. It's refreshing to see in the cynical and self serving world of contemporary politics. Bravo, sirs!


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Panic over, Stephen Kinnock has asked them to stay and fight!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> Would they fight their current constituencies? They'd have to target a handful of urban Remain seats wouldn't they? Bristol? Norwich? Brighton? Basically they'd be the Crap Greens.



Chris Leslie wouldn't stand a chance in Nottingham without a labour banner. But then he has always seemed to suffer from a delusion that he has some kind of personal support.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Panic over, Stephen Kinnock has asked them to stay and fight!


the 10am announcement will now last no longer than boris johnson's press conference about his fight for the leadership of the tory party


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> But not quite long-winded enough to mention that, as a matter of principle, they'll resign their seats gained as Labour candidates and seek re-election.



Should be mandatory really.  Those tories that joined the kippers did just that.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Do we think that _FROTLPOC _will have a single leader or a (crap)Green-stylee mish-mash of joint leaders? And what gender of leader???


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

"Go Forward"


----------



## redcogs (Feb 18, 2019)

i have spent the last hour shoring up the foundations of redcogs villa in preparation for the earth shattering squeek.  Better put the kettle on whilst the oven still in situ


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> And what gender of leader???


not sure eunuch is a gender


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

tommers said:


> "Go Forward"


"Forward without the people"?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> not sure eunuch is a gender


Ouch!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> But not quite long-winded enough to mention that, as a matter of principle, they'll resign their seats gained as Labour candidates and seek re-election.



Be careful with that. They wouldn't win, but they'd eat into the Labour vote. Plus, in a remain seat it all become a bit difficult for Labour as they've only got the fraying Starmer plan.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Be careful with that. They wouldn't win, but they'd eat into the Labour vote. Plus, in a remain seat it all become a bit difficult for Labour as they've only got the fraying Starmer plan.


They'd do exactly what they're for, then?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> They'd do exactly what they're for, then?


sit about and do fuck all, they'll be the door stopper party


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


>



yeh but the important question remains unanswered - where is malcolm tucker?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but the important question remains unanswered - where is malcolm tucker?



He's now being played by Jodie Whittaker.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Presumably, as they're in Cunty Hall, today's photo op will use the HoC as a backdrop?


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but the important question remains unanswered - where is malcolm tucker?



He’s in Malaga with Peter Mannion!
Buying Twixes


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> He’s in Malaga with Peter Mannion!


but peter mannion's in oxford with morse


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> but peter mannion's in oxford with morse



Doppelgänger?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Presumably, as they're in Cunty Hall, today's photo op will use the HoC as a backdrop?
> 
> View attachment 162220


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Have they left yet?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Well, if they can’t be punctual they won’t get my vote. It’s 10:05 now. Slackers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, if they can’t be punctual they won’t get my vote. It’s 10:05 now. Slackers.


they've bottled it


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

‘All eyes on the door to see which MPs arrive’


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> they've bottled it



Drawing straws to see who speaks first?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Beermoth (Feb 18, 2019)

What would Labour do without Gavin Shuker?


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I can’t wait, people we will never hear of again having a moment in the sunshine. First item on sky news at 10 o’ clock on a Monday morning.



Nope, I'm sure they'll be popping up in the Guardian and Independent front pages at least as the people of reference for what's wrong with Corbyn.


----------



## Sue (Feb 18, 2019)

Beermoth said:


> What would Labour do without Gavin Shuker?


That titan of Labour, nay _British_, politics.


----------



## redcogs (Feb 18, 2019)

its not fair! all those howibble Cworbynistas have taken my sweeties.  Im fwowin my wattle out of MY pwam!


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Reports that splinter name to be _"Independence" !
_
Lol


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

It’s now gone 10 past. If you were meeting me at 10, I’d be getting ready to bugger off by now.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

I'm gonna stick with far right of the left party of capital, meself


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s now gone 10 past. If you were meeting me at 10, I’d be getting ready to bugger off by now.


Are they in an (extended) transition period?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> I'm gonna stick with far right of the left party of capital, meself


won't get fooled again


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

Here it comes...


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Are they in an (extended) transition period?


they're arguing among themselves who will speak first. this may cause some considerable delay


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

Chuka has walked in, together with a bunch of unknowns.

Resignations confirmed, they will be sitting as independents.

So, no new party, for now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Chuka has walked in, together with a bunch of unknowns.
> 
> Resignations confirmed.


not to mention boredom


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Reports that splinter name to be _"Independence" !
> _
> Lol



They should be more specific. Something like, UK Independence Party.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Here it comes...



A huuuuuuuge motion?


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

for christ's sake.  Do it properly if you're going to do it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Anti racism against all? Err, hwut?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

First time I’ve heard this woman speak. She’s not impressive.


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 18, 2019)

Bye then.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

7 have resigned says the Beeb.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

_Machine politics of the hard left_...lolwut!


----------



## redcogs (Feb 18, 2019)

So farewell then you sad sack of sanctimonious shits


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

This prick now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

they will go home and prepare for obscurity


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 18, 2019)

The Independent Group


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


>



or tig for short


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

The Independent Group


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> they will go home and prepare for obscurity


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

He's MP for a city that voted leave. Dead man walking.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s now gone 10 past. If you were meeting me at 10, I’d be getting ready to bugger off by now.


Solid grounds for sneaking off for a crafty fag at very minimum


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> He's MP for a city that voted leave. Dead man walking.


who was he?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Ah. Society is “more complicated” than class politics.

That’s informative.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> The Independent Group



_Politics is broken_...TIG welding will come in handy then.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

I wonder how the Independent will cover the Independents


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> who was he?



Chris Leslie. He's a less memorable Owen Smith.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Chris Leslie. He's a less memorable Owen Smith.


owen who?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Invoking our Harold!

Zeitgeist


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 18, 2019)

what the fuck is this one wearing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> owen who?



Precisely.


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 18, 2019)

not that this a bit rambling now


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

sunnysidedown said:


> what the fuck is this one wearing.


Thin.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> _Politics is broken_...TIG welding will come in handy then.








tig out of 'sons of anarchy'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

sunnysidedown said:


> what the fuck is this one wearing.



My nan's curtains.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

Get on with it Angela


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

What in the blue fuck is she on about?


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> The Independent Group



That's the best name they could come up with?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

This latest one, 'this is my first and only job in politics'. 

Yeah, and your last.


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 18, 2019)

did this one not lose a no confidence vote last year


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> _Politics is broken_...TIG welding will come in handy then.




I hope someone checks they are Union members before they arc up!


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

How long before they split because of disagreements over Brexit


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

We're visibly approaching the bottom of the barrel.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

two sheds said:


> How long before they split because of disagreements over Brexit



I think Berger will be mad that the rest of them haven't called Corbyn a racist.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Deselections could have prevented these clowns having this platform.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Our harold again!


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wilson mentioned again.


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

It's the same story.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

This is well lame.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Deselections could have prevented these clowns having this platform.


after the next election none of them will have a platform.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 18, 2019)

The seven Labour MPs who now sit as Independents are:

Luciana Berger (Liverpool Wavertree)
Chuka Umunna (Streatham)
Ann Coffey (Stockport)
Chris Leslie (Nottingham East)
Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge)
Mike Gapes (Ilford South)
Gavin Shuker (Luton South)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Off their website. Each of the bullet points has an "I agree" button next to it.


> *Statement of Independence*
> 
> We are leaving the Labour Party to sit as the Independent Group of Members of Parliament.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

I truly believe in the best interest of this nation that all urbs should apply for membership and watch them go bankrupt due to overwhelming administration costs.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Angela Smith!


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Christ, what a bunch of unimpressive non-entities.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Nobody cares about your fucking backstories, jesus christ.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Well Streatham Is just up the road so whatever or whoever stands for Labour will get some legwork from me. Be good to cunt off Chuka The Scab.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Off their website. Each of the bullet points has an "I agree" button next to it.



Yet no 'disagree' or 'fuck you' buttons.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 18, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> The seven Labour MPs who now sit as Independents are:
> 
> Luciana Berger (Liverpool Wavertree)
> Chuka Umunna (Streatham)
> ...


Ann Coffey is pretty much up for retirement in any case


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Feb 18, 2019)

This press conference is lulz!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yet no 'disagree' or 'fuck you' buttons.


I'm not sure even this lot are _that_ self-destructive.


----------



## tim (Feb 18, 2019)

two sheds said:


> How long before they split because of disagreements over Brexit


Are they all Brexiteers or will they let Frank Field into the fold?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

More back stories than the fucking X factor


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

this is like x-factor or something

"you had a difficult childhood didn't you?"


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Nobody cares about your fucking backstories, jesus christ.


it's the only time they'll have a captive audience forced to listen to their litanies of woe


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Ann Coffey is pretty much up for retirement in any case


They all are now.


----------



## Ponyutd (Feb 18, 2019)

I'm Chuka Umunna, you're all scum!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

And this is supposed to be the talented one.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Well Streatham Is just up the road so whatever or whoever stands for Labour will get some legwork from me. Be good to cunt off Chuka The Scab.


could have it as part of an evening's entertainment, combined with south london drinks


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

yes, I didn't get my first class honours degree until I was 29, cos I was put in the second stream at secondary school


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> The seven Labour MPs who now sit as Independents are:
> 
> Luciana Berger (Liverpool Wavertree)
> Chuka Umunna (Streatham)
> ...



All sat awaiting their sealed envelopes containing instructions from Tory Central.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's the only time they'll have a captive audience forced to listen to their litanies of woe



They should join Urban to do that!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> They should join Urban to do that!


don't give them ideas


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

I don’t see this bunch attracting any enthusiasm from anyone.


----------



## Ponyutd (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## wayward bob (Feb 18, 2019)

i for one am ready to leave my party and change the world


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> More back stories than the fucking X factor


Chuka - time to shine!


----------



## Indeliblelink (Feb 18, 2019)

Fez909 said:


> The Independent Group


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

Ooo they're inviting us


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I don’t see this bunch attracting any enthusiasm from anyone.


except me


----------



## Ponyutd (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> They should join Urban to do that!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

from the grauniad

only tig is one house one monotonous drone


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Chuka - time to shine!


It’s Chuka Time!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> except me


(((((wb)))))


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I don’t see this bunch attracting any enthusiasm from anyone.


Really not been paying attention, but what actually is their aim here? Destablise Corbyn to the point they can 'take back' Labour? Form a new party?

I'm presuming at the local level it'll just be "vote for me whether I'm Labour or Independent"?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Never disappoints...


----------



## Ted Striker (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


>




It was a natural, logical growth phase (and one taken by myself)  It wasn't the MC's, house music was much better for bumbles


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Never disappoints...
> 
> View attachment 162223


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

“I’ve been fighting battles on Twitter”.

Jesus.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Never disappoints...
> 
> View attachment 162223


((( (((dan hodges))) ))) 
he's never known a powerful political movement


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Never disappoints...
> 
> View attachment 162223


He is getting an erection.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> except me


You joining?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 18, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> The seven Labour MPs who now sit as Independents are:
> 
> Luciana Berger (Liverpool Wavertree) *who?*
> Chuka Umunna (Streatham) *cunt*
> ...



Chuka and the Nobodies. 

Worst band ever.


----------



## Sue (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Never disappoints...
> 
> View attachment 162223


God, he is so shit. Back of the net every time.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> He is getting an erection.



You need blood flow for that.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

It's like the parish council from the Vicar of Dibley had a go at national politics.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

ITV News reporter, said something along the lines of,  '7 is enough for a dinner party, but is it enough for a new political party?'


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Never disappoints...
> 
> View attachment 162223


Feel the power of my last breath.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

They have no base At all.


----------



## Sue (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> “I’ve been fighting battles on Twitter”.
> 
> Jesus.


It's like Cable St all over again.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

The Dinner Party  

That's something I could join


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Will this be the first ever split belboid is not going to join?


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> You joining?


i agree with their analysis but i'm agonising over what to do...


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> “I’ve been fighting battles on Twitter”.
> 
> Jesus.


trending...

#TheDinnerPartySeven


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Sue said:


> It's like Cable St all over again.



Definitely not a Beer Hall Putsch.


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

he doesn't want to say Conservative.


----------



## Sue (Feb 18, 2019)

two sheds said:


> The Dinner Party
> 
> That's something I could join


The company'd be godawful mind. (I'd rather stay at home and eat toast on my own in the dark with no heating.)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Chuka visibly gutted about the dreck he's managed to get onside with him.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

two sheds said:


> The Dinner Party
> 
> That's something I could join



Until the split over which of beans & cheese goes first.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> i agree with their analysis but i'm agonising over what to do...


Just go. Your path to the Tory party has been lit for you.


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 18, 2019)

They want change, but won't rule out siding with the Tories on votes?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Oh Chris you actually think you're going to be re-elected. This is becoming a community mental health issue.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> or tig for short


Tings


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> i agree with their analysis but i'm agonising over what to do...


It's not that clear what they want you to do: they aren't launching a new party.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Smaller than the LibDems...let that sink in.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

'There's no comparison between this & the SDP...'

Nope, they started with 4 people just about everyone had heard of.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Tings


tings can only get better


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Never disappoints...
> 
> View attachment 162223



He never gets anything right does he! 

Can't wait for his next election prediction


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Fez909 said:


> The Independent Group


*503 Service Unavailable*
No server is available to handle this request.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> 'There's no comparison between this & the SDP...'
> 
> Nope, they started with 4 people just about everyone had heard of.


They had 3 serious long term big hitters and...bill. This lot have 6 and 3/4 bills.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It's not that clear what they want you to do: they aren't launching a new party.


they want me to visit their website and big them up on twitter?


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Just go. Your path to the Tory party has been lit for you.


no. this lot are Different and New


----------



## AnnaKarpik (Feb 18, 2019)

Pity they didn't call themselves the Secret Seven, let the world know their talents.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> they want me to visit their website and big them up on twitter?


You can do one of those things.


----------



## wayward bob (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> You can do one of those things.


i'm not on twitter  in political terms i don't exist


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> *503 Service Unavailable*
> No server is available to handle this request.



Politics is broken, and so is our website.


----------



## Sue (Feb 18, 2019)

Well this thread has fair cheered me up on a gloomy Monday morning.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

BBC just apologised for 'bad language' at the press conference? Did anyone else hear?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

wayward bob said:


> i'm not on twitter  in political terms i don't exist


Twitter is all there is.  Didn't you hear the older of the two bald ones?


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 18, 2019)

"We don't come out here and say look at our talent and ability"


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> BBC just apologised for 'bad language' at the press conference? Did anyone else hear?



I heard Chuka say "my gosh"


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Sue said:


> Well this thread has fair cheered me up on a gloomy Monday morning.


their ensuing dissolution ought to provide much further amusement


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> BBC just apologised for 'bad language' at the press conference? Did anyone else hear?


Naw, switched off.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 18, 2019)

If I was a loyal labour member I’d be looking to organise/participate in ‘people’s vote’ protests outside constituency offices pretty sharpish while the press are still interested. Get the mob out, troll the fuckers.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> their ensuing dissolution ought to provide much further amusement


and splits


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> "We don't come out here and say look at our talent and ability"



That, on balance, is probably wise.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

A tad disappointed they didn't decide to call themselves the _Leave Party_


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> A tad disappointed they didn't decide to call themselves the _Leave Party_


real labour


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> A tad disappointed they didn't decide to call themselves the _Leave Party_



'Abigail's Party' would be right on the nose I reckon.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Continuity Nu Labour


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> BBC just apologised for 'bad language' at the press conference? Did anyone else hear?



Hot mike moment?


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 18, 2019)

labour tomorrow could of worked

I suppose they are funding this lot


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> If I was a loyal labour member I’d be looking to organise/participate in ‘people’s vote’ protests outside constituency offices pretty sharpish while the press are still interested. Get the mob out, troll the fuckers.


I'd be doing the exact opposite. Let it and them just quietly die of shame. They would welcome that hostile environment as it would fit their media plan perfectly.


----------



## steeplejack (Feb 18, 2019)

Alliance for Centrist Liberty (Blairite-Mandelsonist)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> BBC just apologised for 'bad language' at the press conference? Did anyone else hear?


A general comment on the content?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Go on who dos'd their website?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> *503 Service Unavailable*
> No server is available to handle this request.



Also this. Vibrant and diverse error messages.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but the important question remains unanswered - where is malcolm tucker?



Let me tell you, this is serious wobble.

Christ, I haven't seen a wobble like this since Fat Pat gave me a lap dance.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Go on who dos'd their website?



I don't think these people need any help from outside saboteurs tbh.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

The Independent Group of MPs is supported by Gemini A Ltd a company limited by guarantee. 


Gemini A Ltd

GEMINI A LTD - Overview (free company information from Companies House)

Incorporated on 16 January 2019

Director, Shuker, Gavin.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The Independent Group of MPs is supported by Gemini A Ltd a company limited by guarantee.
> 
> 
> Gemini A Ltd
> ...



Seems legit.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

"Flinch & Sneer" might have been a better choice of company name.


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

Was he the one who looked like Frank Sidebottom?


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Politics is broken, and so is our website.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The Independent Group of MPs is supported by Gemini A Ltd a company limited by guarantee.
> 
> 
> Gemini A Ltd
> ...


gemini a an anagram of imagine


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

Peter Kyle on Sky saying he will be reflecting seriously about the situation & what has been said.

Sounds like he's considering his position.


----------



## Ponyutd (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Let me tell you, this is serious wobble.
> 
> Christ, I haven't seen a wobble like this since Fat Pat gave me a lap dance.


I know him


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

one of their former colleagues tweets


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> gemini a an anagram of imagine


And "I Enigma".

Spooky!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> And "I Enigma".
> 
> Spooky!


i? a gamine?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> "Flinch & Sneer" might have been a better choice of company name.


Not clear what the company is for, or how it supports the group-who-aren't-a-party.


----------



## Beermoth (Feb 18, 2019)

More like the gang of _snore_ amirite?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Not clear what the company is for, or how it supports the group-who-aren't-a-party.


Profit?


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

How long til they announce an "Allience" with the lib dems?  followed by merger..etc...


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

A long overdue knife in the back for Corbyn. The timing is interesting, to say the least.

If a clever Jewish lady tells you the party she belongs to is institutionally anti-Semitic, I wonder how loudly she has to say it before she's listened to? It would appear she has to say it this loud.

If MPs who have given their whole working lives to a political party decide to leave it as they approach retirement, that speaks to me of the depths of those MPs disquiet, and concern.

Corbyn has made himself unelectable, from a pretty weak position to start with. But worse than that, he's allowed extremism to flourish in certain factions of the party, Lexit daydreams, the kind of accusatory and bitter voices you'll find above this post. It's not my Labour and it's not going to unseat the worst Tory party of all time ever.

And I applaud these 7 for their conscience and courage, it's been a while since I saw politicians doing the right thing rather than the expedient thing. This is huge.


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Peter Kyle on Sky saying he will be reflecting seriously about the situation & what has been said.
> 
> Sounds like he's considering his position.



Who?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> A long overdue knife in the back for Corbyn. The timing is interesting, to say the least.
> 
> If a clever Jewish lady tells you the party she belongs to is institutionally anti-Semitic, I wonder how loudly she has to say it before she's listened to? It would appear she has to say it this loud.
> 
> ...


you sad bastard


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

At least we have confirmation that Corbyn won't now go for a 2nd Ref.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> gemini a an anagram of imagine



Maybe Ron Howard is behind all this.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> knife in the back


The measure of these people


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> At least we have confirmation that Corbyn won't now go for a 2nd Ref.


it'd be difficult to see how labour could do that now


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> And "I Enigma".
> 
> Spooky!



Don't drag me into this.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

come out and say moochedit you sly shit Wookey


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Not clear what the company is for, or how it supports the group-who-aren't-a-party.



I think most party's use "companies limited by guarentee" to hold their assets/property to be fair. Just a legal thing. Not that this lot will have many "assets" yet unless they have a wealthy doner.


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> A long overdue knife in the back for Corbyn. The timing is interesting, to say the least.
> 
> If a clever Jewish lady tells you the party she belongs to is institutionally anti-Semitic, I wonder how loudly she has to say it before she's listened to? It would appear she has to say it this loud.
> 
> ...


Tu Stultus Es.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> A long overdue knife in the back for Corbyn. The timing is interesting, to say the least.
> 
> If a clever Jewish lady tells you the party she belongs to is institutionally anti-Semitic, I wonder how loudly she has to say it before she's listened to? It would appear she has to say it this loud.
> 
> ...


Pretty much everything you've written here is wrong.

Although I like the imagery of_, 'they were only one day from retirement!' _


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The Independent Group of MPs is supported by Gemini A ...


If they have NASA behind them, I'm in!


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> The measure of these people



Of course Corbyn was fully aware of the trajectory of the knife, and it's precise landing place, having been completely briefed on today's move long before any of us were. So the "surprise" element of a knife in the back isn't really warranted. Can I have "slap in the face" instead? A "big wet 6 o' clock news slap in the mush"?


----------



## Argonia (Feb 18, 2019)

There should be seven by elections. Which they would lose.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Of course Corbyn was fully aware of the trajectory of the knife, and it's precise landing place, having been completely briefed on today's move long before any of us were. So the "surprise" element of a knife in the back isn't really warranted. Can I have "slap in the face" instead? A "big wet 6 o' clock news slap in the mush"?


No, you were (unintentionally ?) quite correct; this is a knife in the back of all those that voted, campaigned and worked hard to get these people elected as LP MPs.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Pretty much everything you've written here is wrong.



Are you sure?? That would be uncharacteristically consistent for me.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 18, 2019)

I was deeply moved by the one in the press conference who told the story of how, at the age of 11, she was briefly put in the second stream at school. That sort of injustice just makes me so cross.


----------



## tim (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> A long overdue knife in the back for Corbyn. The timing is interesting, to say the least.
> 
> If a clever Jewish lady tells you the party she belongs to is institutionally anti-Semitic, I wonder how loudly she has to say it before she's listened to? It would appear she has to say it this loud.
> 
> ...



If Berger strikes you as clever, it says volumes about you.


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2019)

Argonia said:


> There should be seven by elections. Which they would lose.



And which they very conspicuously dodged the question about.

They were elected as Labour MPs.  They are no longer Labour MPs.  

integrity.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> It's not my Labour and it's not going to unseat the worst Tory party of all time ever.


New Labour wasn't Labour for a lot of people. Yes, I realise they did have quite a lot of support at the start, but that was arguably by becoming something that wasn't really Labour. Certainly, my dad was one of the ones who left the Labour party during the Blair years because he didn't consider them to be a party of the left any more.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> A long overdue knife in the back for Corbyn. The timing is interesting, to say the least.
> 
> If a clever Jewish lady tells you the party she belongs to is institutionally anti-Semitic, I wonder how loudly she has to say it before she's listened to? It would appear she has to say it this loud.
> 
> ...


Your entire world view is shit.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Are you sure?? That would be uncharacteristically consistent for me.


Nah you were always full of shit .


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> No, you were (unintentionally) quite correct; this is a knife in the back of all those that voted, campaigned and worked hard to get these people elected as LP MPs.



They can get their own back at the ballot box, isn't that the system?

Would you expect people to pay party membership fees for what they believe is now a racist party, isn't that a line being crossed??


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 18, 2019)

from elsewhere on t'interweb - 

"you gotta love it when the trash takes itself out"


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> No, you were (unintentionally ?) quite correct; this is a knife in the back of all those that voted, campaigned and worked hard to get these people elected as LP MPs.


But wookey speaks for those people.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

From now on when I curl one out it will be referred to as a wooky.


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 162228
> come out and say moochedit you sly shit Wookey


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Your entire world view is shit.



Just gonna quote that, and leave it hanging there, in all it's misanthropic glory. That's how low you've sunk.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

I wonder what wookey thinks of the lib-dems being elected on selling a very specific platform and then doing the opposite of that platform? Would he argue that this is the system working perfectly as he does here? I wonder what his past arguments on this were.


----------



## tim (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Just gonna quote that, and leave it hanging there, in all it's misanthropic glory. That's how low you've sunk.



Sunk! We're swimming up to pull you down.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Would you expect people to pay party membership fees for what they believe is now a racist party


Yes, that's right.  People should _be made to_ pay membership fees to racist parties.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Would you expect people to pay party membership fees for what they believe is now a racist party, isn't that a line being crossed??


Honest question, as I've really just been ignoring a lot of the mess: how has Labour become a racist party? What new policies or messages have come about? Or is it a case of "the racists were always there and now they feel emboldened?". Or "racists have taken over the party?" In which case, again, how has that actually manifested itself?

As I say, genuine question. I know there's been a lot of shit thrown around on the internet, and some have trouble with Corbyn's past, but I'm still not sure I see the link between that and how the Labour party as an institution is racist/anti-Semitic.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Pretty much everything you've written here is wrong.
> 
> Although I like the imagery of_, 'they were only one day from retirement!' _


the 'this is huge' bit made me laugh though. These 7 have been on thier way out the door or ages, they can't even be bothered to launch a new party and are going to survive briefly on media boosting alone. This day shall be spoken of in hushed tone by future students


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Can I have "slap in the face" instead? A "big wet 6 o' clock news slap in the mush"?



you could certainly do with one you tedious gibbon.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Your entire world view is shit.



Harsh but fair.


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

When my previous MP, Heidi Alexander, moved to London political work it triggered a by-election in Lewisham East.
There is certainly a case for all 'independence ' MP's, elected on a Labour ticket, to resign en mass and trigger a mini General Election.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Please don't let wookey make the question of standing down as MPs being about labour party _members _rather than the _voters _who elected these people on the basis of them being labour candidates . This should not even be in doubt for a second, but such is the fawning back slapping nature of our paternal parliamentary system where MPs are effectively in loco parentis for their dimwitted morally and intellectually irresponsible constituents that it _produces _this sort of paternal bullshit for soppy liberals to regurgitate _as a principle._


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> When my previous MP, Heidi Alexander, moved to London political work it triggered a by-election in Lewisham East.


isn't lewisham east in london?

ah - i see you've missed some important words out


----------



## JimW (Feb 18, 2019)

They could go with "Chukka's Muckers" and wait for the rhymes to pour in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> There is certainly a case for all 'independence ' MP's, elected on a Labour ticket, to resign en mass and trigger a mini General Election.


go on then, make it


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

JimW said:


> They could go with "Chukka's Muckers" and wait for the rhymes to pour in.


it'd be like on up pompeii and they'd need help to think of the rhymes


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

sunnysidedown said:


> you could certainly do with one you tedious gibbon.


I am going to quote this.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

sunnysidedown said:


> you could certainly do with one you tedious gibbon.


that's the post of the thread


----------



## Libertad (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> a mini General Election.



What's one of those then?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Libertad said:


> What's one of those then?


In this case 7 labour MPs.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

JimW said:


> They could go with "Chukka's Muckers" and wait for the rhymes to pour in.



Pretty sure I've got copyright on that from c. 2015


----------



## imposs1904 (Feb 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> 'There's no comparison between this & the SDP...'
> 
> Nope, they started with 4 people just about everyone had heard of.



7 Bill Rodgers launch split from the Labour Party.


----------



## dessiato (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## CRI (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## tim (Feb 18, 2019)

If they'd taken Tom Watson with them, I'd be more forgiving.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 18, 2019)

imposs1904 said:


> 7 Bill Rodgers launch split from the Labour Party.


tbf Rodgers was a former cabinet minister. It's not even that.

Googling, it's one of those 'he's still alive!?' moments.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Honest question, as I've really just been ignoring a lot of the mess: how has Labour become a racist party? What new policies or messages have come about? Or is it a case of "the racists were always there and now they feel emboldened?". Or "racists have taken over the party?" In which case, again, how has that actually manifested itself?
> 
> As I say, genuine question. I know there's been a lot of shit thrown around on the internet, and some have trouble with Corbyn's past, but I'm still not sure I see the link between that and how the Labour party as an institution is racist/anti-Semitic.



I think it's an infiltration that hasn't been properly challenged by the leadership, and is worst on social media.

I don't know in detail how bad the problem is, as regards racism and anti-Semitism, partly of course because I'm a white anti-theist and I'm not in the Party. But I know that if a gay person that I respected said an organisation was institutionally homophobic, I would assume that to be the case unless and until it was proven otherwise.

That isn't the weight of evidence required in a criminal court of law, it's not even-handed or dispassionate. I'm aware of that. But we have a Holocaust within living memory that acts as a permanent warning signal of how quickly we can lose our shit as a society, so I don't need to see compelling evidence with my own eyes, because secondary reportage from the affected group is more than enough for me. Should be more than enough for anybody.

Yup, it's pre-emptive self-protection that I recognise in this, and share. Jews and gay people didn't stand in exactly the same queues in the concentration camps, but our deaths were the same. And there is an imaginary bell in my head, and when someone rings that bell with conviction and reason, as these people have, and Berger has been doing for a long time now, and lots of Jewish people have now been ringing a while, then I have to fucking listen, even though I'm not Jewish and so not a direct target of this...yet.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

sunnysidedown said:


> you could certainly do with one you tedious gibbon.



A tedious gibbon. See, that is just poetry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I think it's an infiltration that hasn't been properly challenged by the leadership, and is worst on social media.
> 
> I don't know in detail how bad the problem is, as regards racism and anti-Semitism, partly of course because I'm a white anti-theist and I'm not in the Party. But I know that if a gay person that I respected said an organisation was institutionally homophobic, I would assume that to be the case unless and until it was proven otherwise.
> 
> ...


so you don't demand any of your actual evidence before making your mind up and spouting about it.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Feb 18, 2019)

CRI said:


> View attachment 162232


----------



## tony.c (Feb 18, 2019)

So how long before Blair backs them? I reckon in time for the evening news.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Indeliblelink said:


>




The new season of The Thick of It is something else!


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

tim said:


> If they'd taken Tom Watson with them, I'd be more forgiving.



Can’t see Watson going for a PV personally


----------



## treelover (Feb 18, 2019)

Not a fan of any of them(especially Leslie, who helped develop New Labours welfare reform programe) but Berger seems to have resigned on the one issue of A/S, she has faced huge amounts of abuse, from inside the LP and without, she even had a well known Liverpool Music Scene Face follow her on the street shouting about the 'Jews'.


----------



## Athos (Feb 18, 2019)

Gemini. The symbol of two faces.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

treelover said:


> Not a fan of any of them(especially Leslie, who helped develop New Labours welfare reform programe) but Berger seems to have resigned on the one issue of A/S, she has faced huge amounts of abuse, from inside the LP and without, she even had a well known Liverpool Music Scene Face follow her on the street shouting about the 'Jews'.


Who is this and what happened?


----------



## rubbershoes (Feb 18, 2019)

This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters. 

My and many of my friends are of the left but don't like Corbyn or brexit. A lot here would say we're not really of the left. But I stand with Wookey in being disappointed by Corbyn

I'm now clearing my inbox ready for the abusive PMs


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

The "future of British politics".


----------



## Raheem (Feb 18, 2019)

treelover said:


> she even had a well known Liverpool Music Scene Face follow her on the street shouting about the 'Jews'.



Go on, gizza clue. 

Really hoping it's not Gerry Marsden.


----------



## treelover (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Who is this and what happened?




Phil Hayes, ex Picket manager/promoter

all over the Echo

updated

Hayes not Holmes


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

Libertad said:


> What's one of those then?


A series of by elections on the same day is what I am getting at.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

rubbershoes said:


> This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters.


Is it meant to be?
God how I wish I'd properly read the T&C when joining.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 18, 2019)

It's not one of history's better coups is it? You'd think they could have at least got a tank off BAES on the never-never but they seem to have barely managed a written off clown car.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Raheem said:


> Go on, gizza clue.
> 
> Really hoping it's not Gerry Marsden.


“How do you Jew what you Jew to me”?


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> isn't lewisham east in london?
> 
> ah - i see you've missed some important words out


Yes. London Assembly politics


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> go on then, make it


Is this an unfinished post?


----------



## treelover (Feb 18, 2019)

rubbershoes said:


> This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters.
> 
> My and many of my friends are of the left but don't like Corbyn or brexit. A lot here would say we're not really of the left. But I stand with Wookey in being disappointed by Corbyn
> 
> I'm now clearing my inbox ready for the abusive PMs




Never been a fan of Corbyn, though he got better, but I have lost faith in Team Corbyn and Momentum, etc, too much student type politics, not robust enough on challenging welfare reform, etc, still holding out for John McDonnell


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

treelover said:


> Phil Holmes, ex Pickett manager/promoter
> 
> all over the Echo


Phil hayes?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> Yes. London Assembly politics


You mean that Khan gave her a job.


----------



## treelover (Feb 18, 2019)

Sorry, yes,


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

While there's a certain logic to that, wouldn't any further resignations face accusations of being disingenuous (I know, I know...) for not leaving now? Like, if you're going to leave on principles, just fucking leave, otherwise it looks all the more political stunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> While there's a certain logic to that, wouldn't any further resignations face accusations of being disingenuous (I know, I know...) for not leaving now? Like, if you're going to leave on principles, just fucking leave, otherwise it looks all the more political stunt.



This is  the lot mate.


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> You mean that Khan gave her a job.


Is that what I mean?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> This is  the lot mate.


Yup. If these are the best who could do the press conference, there’s nobody being held back.


----------



## inva (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> While there's a certain logic to that, wouldn't any further resignations face accusations of being disingenuous (I know, I know...) for not leaving now? Like, if you're going to leave on principles, just fucking leave, otherwise it looks all the more political stunt.



presumably you'd lead with your big names, so if this is the big names can there really be any smaller names waiting in the wings?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

inva said:


> presumably you'd lead with your big names, so if this is the big names can there really be any smaller names waiting in the wings?


This is a fair point.

Would you not want to hold back some big names though, just to keep momentum going rather than it being seen as an ever-dwindling procession of "who"s?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> Is this an unfinished post?


no, i am asking you to make the case you said could  be made.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2019)

did they have any entrance music?


----------



## Libertad (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> A series of by elections on the same day is what I am getting at.



Then you should have said so.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

treelover said:


> Never been a fan of Corbyn, though he got better, but I have lost faith in Team Corbyn and Momentum, etc, too much student type politics, not robust enough on challenging welfare reform, etc, still holding out for John McDonnell


always had you down as more of a tory tbh


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> Is that what I mean?


s'what she did; resign to become one of Khan's deputies


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> did they have any entrance music?



Like vader's theme?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is a fair point.
> 
> Would you not want to hold back some big names though, just to keep momentum going rather than it being seen as an ever-dwindling procession of "who"s?


They tried and failed with that strategy with resignations from the shadow cabinet.  And this time they have even less resources to rely on to keep stuff ticking over. Their _single _resource in fact is the media. And that needs big names. They have 1/4 of one and have now played that card.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> did they have any entrance music?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Like vader's theme?


theres normally a tune isn't there. Party colours, a new name and a song. A slogan or two. But this is no party, so no colours, no tune and no slogans. Just those Origin Stories


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Like vader's theme?



 Actually benny hill would be more appropriate.


----------



## inva (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is a fair point.
> 
> Would you not want to hold back some big names though, just to keep momentum going rather than it being seen as an ever-dwindling procession of "who"s?


not if it means your opening gambit being a procession of "who"s, i would've thought


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

I can’t see this new party being successful myself


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2019)

rubbershoes said:


> This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters.
> 
> My and many of my friends are of the left but don't like Corbyn or brexit. A lot here would say we're not really of the left. But I stand with Wookey in being disappointed by Corbyn
> 
> I'm now clearing my inbox ready for the abusive PMs


It'll be interesting to see who, if anyone, else joins them. But they haven't set up a party and they're all lightweights. They need to get Maajid Nawas and Sadiq on board!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

tony.c said:


> So how long before Blair backs them? I reckon in time for the evening news.


i don't like chuka or the rest but i don't think i could wish being backed by blair on anyone


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I can’t see this new party being successful myself


It isn’t a party.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I can’t see this new party being successful myself


It's not a party, is it. They're all independents.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> They tried and failed with that strategy with resignations from the shadow cabinet.  And this time they have even less resources to rely on to keep stuff ticking over. Their _single _resource in fact is the media. And that needs big names. They have 1/4 of one and have now played that card.





inva said:


> not if it means your opening gambit being a procession of "who"s, i would've thought


Aye, fair enough. Some people poking Watson, but I guess he ain't going anywhere.



MadeInBedlam said:


> I can’t see this new party being successful myself


It's not a new party!  It's a 'group'


----------



## moochedit (Feb 18, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> theres normally a tune isn't there. Party colours, a new name and a song. A slogan or two. But this is no party, so no colours, no tune and no slogans. Just those Origin Stories



I haven't actually seen it yet (at work). Just reading about it on here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> It'll be interesting to see who, if anyone, else joins them. But they haven't set up a party and they're all lightweights. They need to get Maajid Nawas and Sadiq on board!


then they would be the helium of the political world


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> It's not a party, is it. They're all independents.


all independents together


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Said everyone.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

rubbershoes said:


> This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters.
> 
> My and many of my friends are of the left but don't like Corbyn or brexit. A lot here would say we're not really of the left. But I stand with Wookey in being disappointed by Corbyn



There was a time, when I got a bit excited, back in the old days before the referendum. But he's squandered that now, with his enabling of Brexit, position on international affairs, etc. As an international statesman of true vision, he makes quite a good back-bencher.



DotCommunist said:


> the 'this is huge' bit made me laugh though. These 7 have been on thier way out the door or ages, they can't even be bothered to launch a new party and are going to survive briefly on media boosting alone. This day shall be spoken of in hushed tone by future students



We shall all remember where we were, on this day....(checks screen) the 18th of February (checks again)...2019!


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> all independents together


QTWTAIN (part 97)


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 18, 2019)

So I'm not too good with the politics stuff and given to panic. My question to those here more learned is...are we more or less fucked with everything like Brexit and outing the Tories etc now?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It isn’t a party.



More of a relaxed get-together


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> More of a relaxed get-together


a gathering or session


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> So I'm not too good with the politics stuff and given to panic. My question to those here more learned is...are we more or less fucked with everything like Brexit and outing the Tories etc now?


we don't need to out the tories, they already proclaim their torydom


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

rubbershoes said:


> This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters.
> 
> My and many of my friends are of the left but don't like Corbyn or brexit. A lot here would say we're not really of the left. But I stand with Wookey in being disappointed by Corbyn
> 
> I'm now clearing my inbox ready for the abusive PMs


in what sense are you of the left?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> They all are now.


Prob on the pot of money they'll get from endless appearances on TV programmes


----------



## A380 (Feb 18, 2019)

Hurrah. The unsullied can now continue to deliver a pure socialist manifesto untroubled by right wing reactionary factions in the party.

The fact that the next election has been handed to the current shit show torries is just an unfortunate side effect.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> in what sense are you of the left?


but answer came there none


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

A380 said:


> The unsullied


have you followed game of thrones at all?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> but answer came there none


give them a min. thinking is hard for these types.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

"Why am I Mr. Pink"


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> a gathering or session



A sesh


----------



## Libertad (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> More of a relaxed get-together





Pickman's model said:


> a gathering or session



A collection of car keys in the fruit bowl of British politics.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2019)

A380 said:


> Hurrah. The unsullied can now continue to deliver a pure socialist manifesto untroubled by right wing reactionary factions in the party.
> 
> The fact that the next election has been handed to the current shit show torries is just an unfortunate side effect.


A GE now would be interesting.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

It wasn't as bad as Angela Eagles leadership launch but not far off.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

What’s so left wing about Corbyn’s mob anyway?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Libertad said:


> A collection of car keys in the fruit bowl of British politics.


did you see endeavour last night?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> "Why am I Mr. Pink"
> 
> View attachment 162240


----------



## Ponyutd (Feb 18, 2019)

I'm surprised Onasanya didn't apply for day release to pitch up with them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Ponyutd said:


> I'm surprised Onasanya didn't apply for day release to pitch up with them.


that would have made them the hateful eight


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Ponyutd said:


> I'm surprised Onasanya didn't apply for day release to pitch up with them.



Poor etiquette to mention her in the thread without tagging her


----------



## Libertad (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> did you see endeavour last night?



Of course.


----------



## JimW (Feb 18, 2019)

You're so vain, I bet you think this thing is about you. Clowns and Ann Coffey, clowns and Ann Coffey


----------



## redcogs (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> "Why am I Mr. Pink"
> 
> View attachment 162240



What a loathsome bunch of self centred cretins


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

redcogs said:


> What a loathsome bunch of self centred cretins



...and in one phrase, encapsulates and justifies the complaints of the Brave 7.


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 18, 2019)

So  - a bunch of utter lightweights. Will the skeletons in the closet (which obviously it's best not to mention directly) of at least one of them come out in the near future?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> ...and in one phrase, encapsulates and justifies the complaints of the Brave 7.


the _magnificent_ seven


----------



## Libertad (Feb 18, 2019)

JimW said:


> You're so vain, I bet you think this thing is about you. Clowns and Ann Coffey, clowns and Ann Coffey



Veh veh good.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> So  - a bunch of utter lightweights. Will the skeletons in the closet (which obviously it's best not to mention directly) of at least one of them come out in the near future?


that isn't a closet, it's a wardrobe and it stretches from here to narnia


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> So  - a bunch of utter lightweights. Will the skeletons in the closet (which obviously it's best not to mention directly) of at least one of them come out in the near future?


Well, whatever it is he's obv pretty sure that he's squared it or he wouldn't be doing this.


----------



## Quote (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> What’s so left wing about Corbyn’s mob anyway?



Left wing enough to provoke a tireless campaign of sabotage, endless vilification in the press and countless futile attempts to ‘reclaim the party’ by the likes of these dreary, beige nonentities who finally fucked off today.

By the standards of the past it’s fairly slight, but still enough of a leftward tilt to cause aneuyrisms in Guardian columnists and media types across the land.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> ...and in one phrase, encapsulates and justifies the complaints of the Brave 7.


Or...in your own words...*back-stabbers*


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Quote said:


> Left wing enough to provoke a tireless campaign of sabotage, endless vilification in the press and countless futile attempts to ‘reclaim the party’ by the likes of these dreary, beige nonentities who finally fucked off today.
> 
> By the standards of the past it’s fairly slight, but still enough of a leftward tilt to cause aneuyrisms in Guardian columnists and media types across the land.



Oh great.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

I had forgotten the details about the formation of the SDP, apparently it happened about 2 months after the original declaration of values.



> The first formal step in the creation of the SDP was — just like this morning — not the launch of a party. It was the issuing of a declaration of values and a Council for Social Democracy with a small group of MPs attached to it.
> 
> It gathered momentum very quickly. The initial group was flooded with so many letters and offers of help that it could hardly cope. Within less than two months the party had been launched. And eventually the small number in parliament grew until it had 29 MPs. Thousands joined (I was one of them), many of whom had never belonged to another party before.
> The hard lessons to be learnt from the SDP split from Labour


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2019)

I see the Brave 7 have been given endorsement by Katie Hopkins.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

Poor sods.


----------



## drachir (Feb 18, 2019)

Chuka Umunna is bald


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I think it's an infiltration that hasn't been properly challenged by the leadership, and is worst on social media.
> 
> I don't know in detail how bad the problem is, as regards racism and anti-Semitism, partly of course because I'm a white anti-theist and I'm not in the Party. But I know that if a gay person that I respected said an organisation was institutionally homophobic, I would assume that to be the case unless and until it was proven otherwise.
> 
> ...


Sorry, failed to respond after you took the time to.

Fair enough. Certainly, I always try to lend more weight to the voices of those affected, so I get that. I just... claiming the _party_ is institutionally racist/anti-Semitic (as opposed to members of the party), it feels like that should have some evidence to come along with it. But, then, again, that's placing the burden of proof on the victim.

Fuck it, what do I know, this is really not my territory.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

drachir said:


> Chuka Umunna is bald


your powers of observation are keen indeed


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

A bald statement.


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 18, 2019)

#notallslapheads


----------



## JimW (Feb 18, 2019)

drachir said:


> Chuka Umunna is bald


And now his fight over the comb begins!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't like chuka or the rest but i don't think i could wish being backed by blair on anyone


Just being in the room with physcotic Blair would be unnerving.


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> the _magnificent_ seven


I was just thinking it's a shame none of them are called Blake...


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Ponyutd said:


> I'm surprised Onasanya didn't apply for day release to pitch up with them.


Very good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> I was just thinking it's a shame none of them are called Blake...


more Shed Seven than Blake's


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

I don't really go in for the whole "damned due to those who support/praise you" stuff, but this probably _wasn't_ the endorsement they were after...


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Just being in the room with physcotic Blair would be unnerving.



Physcotic?


----------



## Quote (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 162240


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

What's the gossip some of you are alluding to? PM me?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 18, 2019)

These veteran anti-racists who can't stand the racism of the Labour Party are off to a great start then:


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Quote said:


>


They got double the numbers and a cool wizard.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Physcotic?



Ah, *physchotic* Urban Dictionary: Physchotic


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> These veteran anti-racists who can't stand the racism of the Labour Party are off to a great start then:



Tint?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Ah, *physchotic* Urban Dictionary: Physchotic


Link ain't working for me. Spell it out.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Tint?



Gotta be tint or tinge. Just incredible.


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Tint?


*Tingle*, a funny kind of tingle


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> These veteran anti-racists who can't stand the racism of the Labour Party are off to a great start then:


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Gotta be tint or tinge. Just incredible.


Please let there be live footage.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Link ain't working for me. Spell it out.



ISWYDT


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Look. I'm in the GP waiting room in pain. Spell it out or I move on.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> *Tingle*, a funny kind of tingle



Hope it passes https://www.boots.com/zovirax-cold-sore-cream-2g-tube-10041592


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


>



'kinnel


----------



## Ted Striker (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Tim - can you change the thread title to Gavin Shuker resigns or something please?


----------



## JimW (Feb 18, 2019)

Can't read the tweets, what's the gist?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

The useless assadist posho tool says _whatever.
_
edit: oh the smith ones? She starts to say funny coloured people basically
_
_


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2019)

JimW said:


> Can't read the tweets, what's the gist?


angela smith was talking about bame people and nearly went with 'black or a funny tinge'


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


>



oh dear

at least there'll be one racist fewer in the labour party tonight.


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 18, 2019)

Good to see that _The Independent Group_ haven't even managed to come up with an original name. Let's hope they also plagarise their  predecessors, a British modernist artists movement, for some of the campaign material.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


>




Look Chuka, these are your mates now. You're stuck with these people. This was your whole plan. These are the people who make you prime minister somehow.

Enjoy


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

BBC reporting John McDonnell calling on the magnificent 7 to resign their seats and stand in by-elections


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> BBC reporting John McDonnell calling on the magnificent 7 to resign their seats and stand in by-elections



A peoples' vote now that things have changed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> BBC reporting John McDonnell calling on the magnificent 7 to resign their seats and stand in by-elections


they will keep their snouts in the trough until the day they have to face the electorate


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> BBC reporting John McDonnell calling on the magnificent 7 to resign their seats and stand in by-elections


good to see auld jm catching up with douglas carswell


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> BBC reporting John McDonnell calling on the magnificent 7 to resign their seats and stand in by-elections



You'd think they'd have prepared a good line on this but they haven't. It's all desperate back-of-an-envelope stuff even though they've clearly been planning something like this for years.


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> A peoples' vote now that things have changed.


He didn't exactly word it that way, but yeah, that, basically...


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> no, i am asking you to make the case you said could  be made.



I am suggesting that as they were all elected as Labour MP's, with whatever that may imply for voters in their constituencies, they are now not Labour MP's any more. therefore perhaps they ought to stand again now in their new guises, so the voters in their constituencies can have another go now things have changed.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

As for byelections, here in Nottingham East it's a good bet a momentum candidate would be chosen to run against Leslie. Even in the poshest part of the constituency the local LP overwhelmingly passed a no-confidence motion against him.


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> I am suggesting that as they were all elected as Labour MP's, with whatever that may imply for voters in their constituencies, they are now not Labour MP's any more. therefore perhaps they ought to stand again now in their new guises, so the voters in their constituencies can have another go now things have changed.


Are you John McDonnell posting under an assumed name?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> Are you John McDonnell posting under an assumed name?



Most of the country seems to be saying something similar tbh.


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> s'what she did; resign to become one of Khan's deputies


Yes.
You wrote previously that 'Khan gave her a job', and said it is what I meant.
What I mean is closer to what you have now written above.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> Yes.
> You wrote previously that 'Khan gave her a job', and said it is what I meant.
> What I mean is closer to what you have now written above.


How
do
you
know?


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> Are you John McDonnell posting under an assumed name?



Not at all. 
Have I written word for word what he said?
If so he is somebody making a case for by-elections.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

& the 7 leavers' web host is located in...


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> Yes.
> You wrote previously that 'Khan gave her a job', and said it is what I meant.
> What I mean is closer to what you have now written above.


Yes, Khan gave her a job.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> I am suggesting that as they were all elected as Labour MP's, with whatever that may imply for voters in their constituencies, they are now not Labour MP's any more. therefore perhaps they ought to stand again now in their new guises, so the voters in their constituencies can have another go now things have changed.


i know what you're suggesting they do, i am asking you to make the case for it. 

if you cannot or will not make the case for it then let it pass and chalk it up as another of the things you've said on which you couldn't deliver.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Isn't it just 'the done thing'?


----------



## cantsin (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> The useless assadist posho tool says _whatever.
> _
> edit: oh the smith ones? She starts to say funny coloured people basically



no, Thornberry didnt say 'whatever'


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

likesfish said:


> Never going to happen the toad knows if he leaves labour's his chance to be the Uk's Obama would be gone for good.



Great prediction


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

cantsin said:


> no, Thornberry didnt say 'whatever'


Well, she should have.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


>




And then there was 6


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Well, whatever it is he's obv pretty sure that he's squared it or he wouldn't be doing this.


There was a Quebec politican years ago who deliberately committed shoplifting so that he could get out of a political scene where his closeted skeleton had to be kept under wraps. I'm sure there's no similarity with Chuka, though.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Great prediction



honestly didn't think the shiny-headed spiv had it in him so props for that after nearly a year of threats


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> & the 7 leavers' web host is located in...
> 
> View attachment 162246



That's where Whoisguard are based. They are a privacy service that a lot of domain registrars use. It says nothing about where the website is hosted.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Quote (Feb 18, 2019)

Good going to get themselves embroiled in a racist controversy on their very first day of existence.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Quote said:


> Good going to get themselves embroiled in a racist controversy on their very first day of existence.



That was the only way this was ever going to pan out.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


>




What do you make of this principled anti racism Wookey ?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

_Are you lying now or when you campaigned on the labour party manifesto in 2017? Which one?
_
Labour should be making mincemeat of this lot today. I assume they are.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

I think the most delightful thing about all this is I don't think any of the 7 realise how much everyone is going to hate them.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> What do you make of this principled anti racism Wookey ?



It's actually a perfect example of centrist anti-racism, ie just about managing not to say overtly racist things on live TV and then assuming the job is done.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Angela Smith has already lost a vote of no confidence in her CLP 3 months ago by the way. And she's in a Leave constituency with UKIP councillors where she nearly lost to the Tories in 2017. 

Angela Smith loses no confidence vote by local party - LabourList


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's actually a perfect example of centrist anti-racism, ie just about managing not to say overtly racist things on live TV and then assuming the job is done.



Or it would have been if she'd managed not to almost say it


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

likesfish said:


> honestly didn't think the shiny-headed spiv had it in him so props for that after nearly a year of threats



Longer than a year of threats I think - and all he could muster was the #ScabbySeven, 3 of whom were in danger of getting deselected by their CLP and 4 who no one has ever heard of.


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i know what you're suggesting they do, i am asking you to make the case for it.
> 
> if you cannot or will not make the case for it then let it pass and chalk it up as another of the things you've said on which you couldn't deliver.



No personal agenda obviously '_another of the things you've said on which you couldn't deliver'.
_
I suggested originally that a case can be made for these MP's to stand again.
This also seems to be what MacDonnell is saying.
I believe it is because in the case of those MP's things have changed in a sense that is likely to be fundamental to many in their constituencies, that they are no longer Labour Party MP's. I would imagine technically, and in terms of precedent, they are entitled to stay on in a different guise until the next general election.
However I think that in terms of my understanding of the kind of contract a MP has with their voters, that contract has been varied to the point that morally if you like, a by-election is the right thing to do.
Some of those MP's call for a peoples vote, or new brexit referendum now that the landscape seems to have changed, so in terms of being hypocritical in their stance (if they don't trigger a by-election) the landscape in their own constituencies has changed, and by their own argument, another constituency vote would be appropriate.

Now I sense you have a generally high and mighty attitude, perhaps only towards me, and the case I set out above might not seem mighty enough to you, or at high enough levels of thinking to be considered in your wonderland of 'delivery', but it is, as they say, what it is.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Angela Smith has already lost a vote of no confidence in her CLP 3 months ago by the way. And she's in a Leave constituency with UKIP councillors where she nearly lost to the Tories in 2017.
> 
> Angela Smith loses no confidence vote by local party - LabourList



Likewise Leslie.

Another Labour MP loses no confidence vote

"But I have to weigh the views of a few dozen people at this meeting with the thousands who voted for me at the last election."

...he really does seem to be delusional enough to believe that people voted for him and not Labour. What he thinks he did between 2015 and 2017 to earn himself an extra 4,000 votes only the gods know.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Likewise Leslie.
> 
> Another Labour MP loses no confidence vote
> 
> ...



Well he must have done something, couldn't have had a thing to do with Corbyn being leader and the party membership trebleing can it?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

_"But I have to weigh the views of a few dozen people at this meeting with the thousands who voted for me at the last election."_ So you've made the case for why you should resign as an MP Mr Leslie.

Mincemeat.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical has a new hobby horse.

They have stated they will not stand down for by-elections, that's within their rights, as odd as that is, that's the fact of the matter.

You can bang on about it has much as you like, but it's not going to change anything.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> No personal agenda obviously '_another of the things you've said on which you couldn't deliver'.
> _
> I suggested originally that a case can be made for these MP's to stand again.
> This also seems to be what MacDonnell is saying.
> ...


a high and mighty attitude 

you said this case could be made, and then when asked to you said my post seemed incomplete. there's only one person out of us two with a high and mighty attitude, and that's you. you don't like being asked to make cases or whatnot, you've never liked being made to put up.


----------



## philosophical (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> a high and mighty attitude
> 
> you said this case could be made, and then when asked to you said my post seemed incomplete. there's only one person out of us two with a high and mighty attitude, and that's you. you don't like being asked to make cases or whatnot, you've never liked being made to put up.



Sorry but this is a rubbish diatribe, and reads like utter bollocks*

*Posted from a hight and mighty position.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 18, 2019)

rubbershoes said:


> This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters.
> 
> My and many of my friends are of the left but don't like Corbyn or brexit. A lot here would say we're not really of the left. But I stand with Wookey in being disappointed by Corbyn
> 
> I'm now clearing my inbox ready for the abusive PMs


Yeah those extra 3.5M voters that Labour gained at the last election, and which these pricks benefitted from, where all down to individual votes of MPs. Absolutely nothing to do with Corbyn or the move back towards a mild social democratic platform.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Farage is already distancing himself from his new party...dream team?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

philosophical said:


> Sorry but this is a rubbish diatribe, and reads like utter bollocks*
> 
> *Posted from a hight and mighty position.


yeh, it's not a diatribe at all. it's simply a brief statement of your position.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

tbf, we Urbz were all over the party colour issue yesterday....


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> the move back towards a mild social democratic platform.


This continues to be a background hum of absurdity; the idea that Corbyn and his policies are in some way extremist, when really it's little of the sort.


----------



## Quote (Feb 18, 2019)

The Independent Group
#CringePolitics


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> This continues to be a background hum of absurdity; the idea that Corbyn and his policies are in some way extremist, when really it's little of the sort.


yeh it's very extreme of them to retain in all essentials the tory tax rates


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

Mildly amusing piece here: Inside Labour's lonely hearts club band | John Crace


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Pretty sure this isn't even satire


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

Gonna be a fair few empty chairs at the next LFI meet.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 18, 2019)

then their were 6


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Pretty sure this isn't even satire



elementary my dear camomile


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 18, 2019)

A few pages ago on this thread, Wookey posted this :




			
				Wookey said:
			
		

> And I applaud these 7 for their conscience and courage



Would you like to explain *exactly* what's "conscientious" and "courageous" about this 7 not fighting by-elections ASAP??

In which they stand as Independents, now that they've left the Labour Party under whose colours thay were originally elected???


----------



## Combustible (Feb 18, 2019)

First time as farce, the second time as farce.


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> A few pages ago on this thread, Wookey posted this :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't get Wookey started on colours again, I don't think I could bear it...


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> Don't get Wookey started on colours again, I don't think I could bear it...






He does need to answer the general question though!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Pretty sure this isn't even satire




Of course it is, he said 'credible lib dems'.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Of course it is, he said 'credible lib dems'.


No, really, I think he believes.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 18, 2019)

From what I've seen Luciana Berger seems to be getting most of the coverage - Umunna must be well pissed off...


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Of course it is, he said 'credible lib dems'.


Compared to these jokers, some of the LibDems could almost be considered credible


----------



## teqniq (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> From what I've seen Luciana Berger seems to be getting most of the coverage - Umunna must be well pissed off...


This is a continuation of her families relentless war on Bevan and his ites.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 18, 2019)

And


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> This is a continuation of her families relentless war on Bevan and his ites.


now she's aligned with cu and his nts


----------



## 8ball (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Pretty sure this isn't even satire




I feel like there was meant to be a punchline but I failed to get it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

8ball said:


> I feel like there was meant to be a punchline but I failed to get it.


I feel like there are too many punchlines to pick just one.

At least seven, I'd say.


----------



## treelover (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> This is a continuation of her families relentless war on Bevan and his ites.




Who do you mean, Manny Shinwell? Thought he was a Bevanite.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

treelover said:


> Who do you mean, Manny Shinwell? Thought he was a Bevanite.


Until they got in power and he effectively forced Bevan to a position where he had to resign or lose his political honour.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> This is a continuation of her families relentless war on Bevan and his ites.


hadn't picked up on the link


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

Having read Luciana Berger's wiki page, I'm getting a strong feeling of deja vu...


> Berger was a National Executive Committee member of the National Union of Students. She co-convened the NUS Anti-Racism/Anti-Fascism Campaign. In April 2005, she resigned from the Committee, accusing other NEC members of antisemitism.





> An independent inquiry later cleared the NUS of failing to tackle antisemitism, but criticised it for not having rigorous complaints procedures in place and reacting too slowly to allegations. The report was also critical of Berger, who attended a meeting with the head of the School of Oriental and African Studies following complaints from Jewish students that the union was tolerating antisemitism.





> It stated that "Miss Berger should not have attended the meeting, which was implicitly critical of the union, when she was a national executive member. Protocol dictates she should have sought to support the union in tackling the problem first"


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Or...in your own words...*back-stabbers*



And here's the theme tune...which is way way too good for them.



Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


> Having just read Luciana Berger's wiki page, I'm getting a strong feeling of deja vu here...


out of curiosity has lb any links to jeremy newmark?

e2a found auld newmark's blotted his copybook, which makes me very happy


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> From what I've seen Luciana Berger seems to be getting most of the coverage - Umunna must be well pissed off...



I suspect this is a tactical move to push the antisemitism angle to the fore. Probably a wise move tbh, lord knows they don't want people asking about their policies or principles.


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> out of curiosity has lb any links to jeremy newmark?
> 
> e2a found auld newmark's blotted his copybook, which makes me very happy


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

andysays said:


>


auld jn a one-time labour candidate and former bigwig in the union of jewish students. but he seems to have been something of a fraudster too


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 18, 2019)

Independents Group: Announce belboid


----------



## belboid (Feb 18, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Independents Group: Announce belboid


?? did they announce me?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 18, 2019)

Not sure what they're hoping to achieve, this kind of ideological purification is exactly what the Corbyn supporters want. It's not going to put any pressure on him inside the party, outside though it looks bad.


----------



## agricola (Feb 18, 2019)

Ranbay said:


> And then there was 6



by the end of the week it will be:


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

Is 'The Independent Group' an actual party or are they all just independent MPs under a banner. I'm confused.

We're all expecting them to loose their seats at the next GE anyway, right?


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The "future of British politics".



Politics of the past, PFI debt, bombs and welfare ‘reform’. Corbyn should be saying “it’s a shame they couldn’t find a place for themselves in a modern, democratic, progressive Labour Party.” Or something like that.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Is 'The Independent Group' an actual party or are they all just independent MPs under a banner. I'm confused.
> 
> We're all expecting them to loose their seats at the next GE anyway, right?



Not a party as partys need to declare where they get their money from. At some point they may declare themselves a party to get some public cash.


----------



## agricola (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Is 'The Independent Group' an actual party or are they all just independent MPs under a banner. I'm confused.
> 
> We're all expecting them to loose their seats at the next GE anyway, right?



They have a website, a corporate identity, a twitter account, they are soliciting donations and they brand themselves as being members of a group - but they say it is not a party as far as Electoral law is concerned. 

So basically if you donate then you are giving Gemini A Ltd. some money, which you can do with no fear of it being declared (unless the EC take a dim view of this, which really they should).


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Is 'The Independent Group' an actual party or are they all just independent MPs under a banner. I'm confused.
> 
> We're all expecting them to loose their seats at the next GE anyway, right?



They are just independent MPs for now.

Same as when the Gang of Four resigned from the party, it was a couple of months later before the SDP was formed.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 18, 2019)

agricola said:


> They have a website, a corporate identity, a twitter account, they are soliciting donations and they brand themselves as being members of a group - but they say it is not a party as far as Electoral law is concerned.
> 
> So basically if you donate then you are giving Gemini A Ltd. some money, which you can do with no fear of it being declared (unless the EC take a dim view of this, which really they should).


If the tory election expenses fraud case(s) showed us anything it was the toothlessness of the EC. I'm sure Chucky & co. have taken expensive legal advice that they're sailing just the right side of the law.


----------



## MrSki (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 18, 2019)

Party Sevens were shit as well.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

Where’s the ring pull ?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

brogdale said:


> If the tory election expenses fraud case(s) showed us anything it was the toothlessness of the EC.



That and the zero things done about the now pretty indisputable fact the referendum result was bought with dirty money.


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 18, 2019)

You had to spike them on two sides.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Where’s the ring pull ?



You use one of them things like you used to have for opening condensed milk. You put a big hole in one side and a little hole in the other side to let the air in.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2019)

Load of bollocks. Who can be arsed with that.


----------



## binka (Feb 18, 2019)

So when do we get all the juicy details about whatever skeletons in umunna's cloeset that led to him mysteriously dropping out of the labour leadership contest?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Do they even still do condensed milk? Or no, it was evaporated milk we used to have. Used to have it on cherry pie filling from a can, and I bet they don't make that any more either


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

binka said:


> So when do we get all the juicy details about whatever skeletons in umunna's cloeset that led to him mysteriously dropping out of the labour leadership contest?



Perhaps the person who knows about them supports this new venture. Perhaps a price of silence has been negotiated and that price is sabotaging Corbyn, albeit in a pretty shit sort of way.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Do they even still do condensed milk? Or no, it was evaporated milk we used to have. Used to have it on cherry pie filling from a can, and I bet they don't make that any more either


Evap? Of course they do. Supermarkets do own brand versions too.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Evap? Of course they do. Supermarkets do own brand versions too.



My mum just called it 'vap'.


----------



## tim (Feb 18, 2019)

binka said:


> So when do we get all the juicy details about whatever skeletons in umunna's cloeset that led to him mysteriously dropping out of the labour leadership contest?




Sir Helenus Milmo!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 18, 2019)

belboid said:


> ?? did they announce me?



 Not yet.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

binka said:


> So when do we get all the juicy details about whatever skeletons in umunna's cloeset that led to him mysteriously dropping out of the labour leadership contest?



I think he just realised he wasn't going to win to be honest.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

This is pretty damning. 

30 MPs Discussed Quitting Labour, But The Chaos Of The New Independent Group Turned Them Off


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> This is pretty damning.
> 
> 30 MPs Discussed Quitting Labour, But The Chaos Of The New Independent Group Turned Them Off


I rather like this quote 


> A third source who has attended presentations by both factions said: “They are both a shitshow but Powell’s party is even more of a mess”.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

"ex-Labour MPs who left the party amid sexual harassment allegations should be allowed to join them."

Help me out here please folks.


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 18, 2019)

Oh please let them try to form a party based around Rachel Riley and JK Rowling. If you tried to come up with something more dreadful you would fail.


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> "ex-Labour MPs who left the party amid sexual harassment allegations should be allowed to join them."
> 
> Help me out here please folks.



John Woodcock


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Why does leslie rate himself? I don't get it.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> John Woodcock


Ta v much.

edit: Oh it says it in the article!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2019)

This thread just keeps on giving.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> A few pages ago on this thread, Wookey posted this :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My use of those words was in relation to them resigning the whip and leaving Labour on a clear point of principle, namely that they reject institutionalised racism and anti-Semitism. It was nothing to do with subsequent by-elections, which remain a matter for the individual MP as a point of law, whether you see that as OK or not. (Let's respect the system of democracy we're clinging on to eh?)

I find it more interesting that 7 MPs have resigned from a party they informedly describe as racist and anti-Semitic, and you are concerned about their deselection. Strange priority if you ask me.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

_He's one of them too!_ Cor, it spreads fast this finger-pointing don't it. Addictive too. And entirely apolitical.


----------



## agricola (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Why does leslie rate himself? I don't get it.



Maybe its the Guardian telling him that he is a former Shadow Chancellor on such a regular basis.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Why does leslie rate himself? I don't get it.


It really is amazing. I mean he may be a wanker but Umunna at least has some sort of profile. Leslie has already lost his seat once, yet he still can't seem to understand that he only has a seat at this moment because of the LP


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

agricola said:


> Maybe its the Guardian telling him that he is a former Shadow Chancellor on such a regular basis.


He was? Blimey.


----------



## Casual Observer (Feb 18, 2019)

Umanna's resignation is the second best thing to happen to Streatham in many a year - the opening of Aldi last year takes top spot. Never mind holding your nose when voting for him down here, I had to wear a full astronaut suit last time. I'm not a big drinker (outside the cricket season) but am already on my fourth celebratory pint.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> He was? Blimey.


For all of six months


----------



## agricola (Feb 18, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> For all of six months



four months, or two months if you count Parliamentary time


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> This is pretty damning.
> 
> 30 MPs Discussed Quitting Labour, But The Chaos Of The New Independent Group Turned Them Off


That odious boot-licking  prick Alex Wickham has managed to get himself on quite well though.


----------



## co-op (Feb 18, 2019)

He was a "Shadow Chancellor" in the same way that Harriet Harmon was Leader of the Labour Party. Stand-ins during an inter-regnum.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I find it more interesting that 7 MPs have resigned from a party they informedly describe as racist and anti-Semitic, and you are concerned about their deselection. Strange priority if you ask me.



I personally find it interesting that only hours after resigning one of this crew described BAME people/their skin colour as 'funny tinged'...I'd say that's one less racist in the Labour party now and the other 6 should be having a think about the irony of them leaving the party for those reasons and aligning themselves with such a fucking idiot.

They won't though because I don't believe racism is the reason they've quit the party at all.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Why does leslie rate himself? I don't get it.



Egged on by the media bubble maybe? Probably not smart enough to notice that they don’t have his interests at heart, just ‘generating conversation’ because that’s what it’s all about now.

Are there any of this lot with the personal standing to win their seat against an official LP candidate? At best they’ll split the vote and let some other cunt in.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> I personally find it interesting that only hours after resigning one of this crew described BAME people/their skin colour as 'funny tinged'...I'd say that's one less racist in the Labour party now and the other 6 should be having a think about the irony of them leaving the party for those reasons and aligning themselves with such a fucking idiot.



It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.

Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles. That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.
> 
> *Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles.* That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.


Who in the Labour Party has used that language?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.
> 
> Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles. That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.


My ire is already aimed there thanks very much and no, your apologism doesn't cut it with me. Her mask slipped.

Perhaps being one of those 'funny tinged/coloured' people she was referring to helps me to have an insight.


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 18, 2019)

They've utterly fucked this haven't they? Even the Guardian is luke warm. _The Guardian! _They had months to plan this, I just never cease to be amazed by their appalling shitness.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.
> 
> Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles. That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.



It was a semi-articulated and hastily cut _mindset _not a garbled sentence.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.
> 
> Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles. That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.



Only people with different politics to Wookey can be racists.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Minutes  after telling everyone else how to do anti-racism properly, wookey - _the tedious gibbon_ - posts the above. He may as well have appended _luv _on the end of it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> They've utterly fucked this haven't they? Even the Guardian is luke warm. _The Guardian! _They had months to plan this, I just never cease to be amazed by their appalling shitness.


They got the call from Zuckerberg, it had to be today to push the parliamentary report on Facebook out of the headlines


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> My Ire is already aimed there thanks very much and no, your apologism doesn't cut it with me. Her mask slipped.



You think I'm apologising for racism?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> fuck knows where her head was going.


It's apparent where her head was going: "funny tinged".


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> You think I'm apologising for racism?


I think you could start by apologising


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> You think I'm apologising for racism?


That's exactly what you did above with your attempt to excuse her. You know Black and Brown people aren't actually a funny colour/tinge don't you?

I mean what kind of person even thinks in that way? Let alone fucking says it hours after accusing the labour party as being rife with racism.

It would be humourous is it wasn't so indicative of what these tory-lite twats actually think.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> That's exactly what you did above with your attempt to excuse her. You know Black and Brown people aren't actually a funny colour don't you? I mean what kind of person even thinks in that way?


Wookey and Angela the obscure


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> My ire is already aimed there thanks very much and no, your apologism doesn't cut it with me. Her mask slipped.
> 
> Perhaps being one of those 'funny tinged/coloured' people she was referring to helps me to have an insight.



Oh, she said funny tinged and coloured did she?

You want to clean yours ears out, she said no such thing.

And all the while you are avoiding the question of 7 MPs splitting from a racist and anti-Semitic party. Way to absorb the attention.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.
> 
> Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles. That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.


If she's not, why on earth did she say what she did? It's not the sort of phrase that comes into most (non racist) people's heads and for an experienced politician to start to say it on live TV is really something fucking special.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> You think I'm apologising for racism?


Yes.  In the post where you apologised for racism.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Oh, she said funny tinged and coloured did she?
> 
> You want to clean yours ears out, she said no such thing.
> 
> And all the while you are avoiding the question of 7 MPs splitting from a racist and anti-Semitic party. Way to absorb the attention.


Quit digging, you're deep enough already


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Oh, she said funny tinged and coloured did she?
> 
> You want to clean yours ears out, she said no such thing.
> 
> And all the while you are avoiding the question of 7 MPs splitting from a racist and anti-Semitic party. Way to absorb the attention.


Why yes she did. 



> The MP Angela Smith has apologised for having “misspoke” after she appeared to refer to people from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds as having a “funny tinge”.


Angela Smith apologises for 'funny tinge' remark


----------



## donkyboy (Feb 18, 2019)

obama wannabe


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2019)

"Misspoke". LOL.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> That's exactly what you did above with your attempt to excuse her. You know Black and Brown people aren't actually a funny colour/tinge don't you?
> 
> I mean what kind of person even thinks in that way?



I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task - the fact she bit it and rewound tells me she was aware she was on dodgy territory, and that's more important to me than insisting everyone has a pure as snow racism-free hive mind, because that's unrealistic.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task


That bodes well for her political future


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Now this, THIS is how you do anti-racism proper. Good job wookey.


----------



## Dan U (Feb 18, 2019)

Angela Smith getting shit from all over the shop on the funny tinge thing. And rightly so

Just one example 

Check out @LennyHenry’s Tweet:


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

editor said:


> Why yes she did.
> 
> 
> Angela Smith apologises for 'funny tinge' remark



Where did she say "coloured?"


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task - the fact she bit it and rewound tells me she was aware she was on dodgy territory, and that's more important to me than insisting everyone has a pure as snow racism-free hive mind, because that's unrealistic.


You make it sound like such a small thing. But the fact that a phrase like that bubbles up in her mind really should be a cause for concern.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task - the fact she bit it and rewound tells me she was aware she was on dodgy territory, and that's more important to me than insisting everyone has a pure as snow racism-free hive mind, because that's unrealistic.


Ah now she's racist _but it's ok_

Catch yourself on


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Where did she say "coloured?"


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Where did she say "coloured?"


Stop digging.  You know very well you're misquoting.  It won't help.  Quite the reverse.


----------



## andysays (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task - the fact she bit it and rewound tells me she was aware she was on dodgy territory, and that's more important to me than insisting everyone has a pure as snow racism-free hive mind, because that's unrealistic.



Your posts recently have demonstrated clearly how unrealistic it is in your case, and you seem determined to continue demonstrating it over and over again for anyone who's missed your previous performances


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Where did she say "coloured?"


I'd imagine that being described as 'funny tinged' is probably even more offensive than being called 'coloured.'


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Oh, she said funny tinged and coloured did she?
> 
> You want to clean yours ears out, she said no such thing.
> 
> And all the while you are avoiding the question of 7 MPs splitting from a racist and anti-Semitic party. Way to absorb the attention.



I am not avoiding shit diddly...I see a bunch of tory-lite chancers making a run for it.

What she was referring to when she said 'funny tinged' is the colour of people's skin. She was not talking about White people.

Stick your fingers in your ears and sing 'lah, lah, lah, not listening' all you like.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Nasty P&P people - leave him alone. No questions._ This press conference is over._


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Feb 18, 2019)

Moderate Tendancy


----------



## pesh (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task


To not be racist?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Stop digging.  You know very well you're misquoting.  It won't help.  Quite the reverse.


Flounce or ban by the end of the day I reckon


----------



## Dan U (Feb 18, 2019)

editor said:


> I'd imagine that being described as 'funny tinged' is probably even more offensive than being called 'coloured.'



If she'd said it yesterday it would have been held up as another example of racist Labour under racist Corbyn.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

editor said:


> I'd imagine that being described as 'funny tinged' is probably even more offensive than being called 'coloured.'


Indeed.  There was never a National Association for the Advancement of Funny Tinged People.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Where did she say "coloured?"



Tinge is another word for colour or hue ffs Wookey. Stop this nonsense. It's fucking insulting.


----------



## agricola (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed.  There was never a National Association for the Advancement of Funny Tinged People.



what was NAFTA then?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Dan U said:


> If she'd said it yesterday it would have been held up as another example of racist Labour under racist Corbyn.


It would. And the reality would be that she would be under serious pressure to fuck off - from corbyn and team as a result.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

agricola said:


> what was NAFTA then?


North American Biscuit Company.  Used to make Shreddies.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task - the fact she bit it and rewound tells me she was aware she was on dodgy territory, and that's more important to me than insisting everyone has a pure as snow racism-free hive mind, because that's unrealistic.



Oh my.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed.  There was never a National Association for the Advancement of Funny Tinged People.


But if there was, it _would_ be based in Penistone.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

editor said:


> You make it sound like such a small thing. But the fact that a phrase like that bubbles up in her mind really should be a cause for concern.



Bullying, intimidation, racism and rank anti-Semitism in the Opposition party, and you select one previously unheard of MP's clumsy wording to focus on. Something she's already apologised for and which clouds the far greater cause for concern that is the 7 resignations today and the reasons behind them. That is a weird prioritisation to me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Dan U said:


> If she'd said it yesterday it would have been held up as another example of racist Labour under racist Corbyn.


Let's hope the Independent Group take it seriously.


----------



## maomao (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes.  In the post where you apologised for racism.


Tbf he never apologised for it. He denied and excused it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Bullying, intimidation, racism and rank anti-Semitism in the Opposition party,


Something we've devoted pages and pages to.  And it's hardly unwarranted to expect the people who wanted the spotlight today because they say Labour is racist to, you know, not be racist.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

maomao said:


> Tbf he never apologised for it. He denied and excused it.


Apologism means defence of. Not saying sorry for.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

editor said:


> I'd imagine that being described as 'funny tinged' is probably even more offensive than being called 'coloured.'



That doesn't answer the question I asked at all. I asked where did she say coloured? Rutita1 said the MP had said funny tinged and coloured, and that was an exaggeration unworthy of her. You are repeating it.

I don't know which is more offensive, funny tinged or coloured, what a bizarre thing to contemplate.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Bullying, intimidation, racism and rank anti-Semitism in the Opposition party, and you select one previously unheard of MP's clumsy wording to focus on. Something she's already apologised for and which clouds the far greater cause for concern that is the 7 resignations today and the reasons behind them. That is a weird prioritisation to me.



Have you ever referred to anyone as being a 'funny tinge'? Have you ever even thought that? 

What makes White people an 'unfunny tinge' do you reckon?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

This is quite superb though. Couldn't be going better.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

maomao said:


> Tbf he never apologised for it. He denied and excused it.


Fair point.  I was looking for a way to appropriately conjugate "apologism", but gave up.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Tinge is another word for colour or hue ffs Wookey. Stop this nonsense. It's fucking insulting.



You're insulting me, and please stop trying to make me be quiet, that's out of order.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> That doesn't answer the question I asked at all. I asked where did she say coloured? Rutita1 said the MP had said funny tinged and coloured, and that was an exaggeration unworthy of her. You are repeating it.
> 
> I don't know which is more offensive, funny tinged or coloured, what a bizarre thing to contemplate.



No, it's not an exaggeration. She was referring to the colour of people's skin. Tinge is another way of saying colour or hue. Non White people are funny coloured to her.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I don't know which is more offensive, funny tinged or coloured


Really?  You don't think the word "funny" is a clue?


----------



## Riklet (Feb 18, 2019)

Glad this cunt is out, and any anyone who utters even a word of support for him needs kicking out, too.

Utter self-interested neoliberal scum.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> You're insulting me, and please stop trying to make me be quiet, that's out of order.



I'm one of those funny tinged people your mate Angela was referring to. But of course though I am insulting you for disliking what she said, calling her out on it and pointing out your apologism is insulting to me. Cos i'm the one being out of order, of course.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Riklet said:


> Glad this cunt is out, and any anyone who utters even a word of support for him needs kicking out, too.
> 
> Utter self-interested neoliberal scum.


Chuka or wookey?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Chuka or wookey?


Why the binary?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Berger and Ummuna flapping on Channel 4


----------



## rekil (Feb 18, 2019)

agricola said:


> by the end of the week it will be:


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Berger and Ummuna flapping on Channel 4


Good. What about in particular?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Good. What about in particular?



Everything. Asked what they are for, where they are going to stand etc. Bit rabbit in headlights


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Everything. Asked what they are for, where they are going to stand etc. Bit rabbit in headlights


Fantastic.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> I'm one of those funny tinged people your mate Angela was referring to. But of course though I am insulting you for disliking what she said, calling her out on it and pointing out your apologism is insulting to me. Cos i'm the one being out of order, of course.



She's not my mate, she never gets a fucking round in, are you serious?!

She's a white working-class English person from Yorkshire. Without being regionalist and judgmental, by which I mean I'm going to be regionalist and judgmental, I'm pretty sure she's seven shades of racist. But if she knows that, and keeps it safely between her own two ears and nowhere else, then it's fuck all to do with me. I certainly think today there are bigger targets to be mad at than this MP.

And to be clear, you insulted me by saying I was an apologist for racism, and for telling me to shut up. It was nothing to do with dear Ange. My mate.


----------



## Sue (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Everything. Asked what they are for, where they are going to stand etc. Bit rabbit in headlights


#beprepared.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> She's not my mate, she never gets a fucking round in, are you serious?!
> 
> She's a white working-class English person from Yorkshire. Without being regionalist and judgmental, by which I mean I'm going to be regionalist and judgmental, I'm pretty sure she's seven shades of racist. But if she knows that, and keeps it safely between her own two ears and nowhere else, then it's fuck all to do with me. I certainly think today there are bigger targets to be mad at than this MP.
> 
> And to be clear, you insulted me by saying I was an apologist for racism, and for telling me to shut up. It was nothing to do with dear Ange. My mate.


Weren't you saying how she wasn't racist before? You sad sack of shit


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

So Smith's case was that the labour party is racist not just against black people but also against people with funny tinges. And her new group won't be racist against people with funny tinges. In fact, they _oppose _racism against people with funny tinges. Gotcha.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Sue said:


> #beprepared.



For this thread?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> For this thread?


For anything


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> She's not my mate, she never gets a fucking round in, are you serious?!
> 
> She's a white working-class English person from Yorkshire. Without being regionalist and judgmental, by which I mean I'm going to be regionalist and judgmental, I'm pretty sure she's seven shades of racist. But if she knows that, and keeps it safely between her own two ears and nowhere else, then it's fuck all to do with me. I certainly think today there are bigger targets to be mad at than this MP.
> 
> *And to be clear, you insulted me by saying I was an apologist for racism, and for telling me to shut up.* It was nothing to do with dear Ange. My mate.



You insulted me more than once by making half arsed apologies/excuses for what she said.Trying to wookey-splain what she actually meant, that I should be more angry at other people etc. as if me commenting on this today means I don't care about anything else. That is what apologism is, offering a defence of something. It's fucking insulting of you to do that. 

You haven't answered any of my questions about what kind of person uses expressions like she did, you can't offer one valid explanation for why a person would even think that way.

Instead now, it's not your business after you have repeatedly tired to excuse it. Yet I am insulting you and trying to shut you up yeah?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Weren't you saying how she wasn't racist before? You sad sack of shit


+now there are millions of others who are 7 shades of racist. The lessons keep on coming.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> And to be clear, you insulted me by saying I was an apologist for racism, and for telling me to shut up.



Politics is nasty these days


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> For anything



Where’s the fun in that?


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Chuka or wookey?



butchersapron You turn shit-stirring into an art form.


Rutita1 said:


> No, it's not an exaggeration. She was referring to the colour of people's skin. Tinge is another way of saying colour or hue. Non White people are funny coloured to her.



My mum describes black people as coloured, because to her that's the polite term - black is what you say when you want to be dismissive or rude. The last thing she'd want to be is racist, but she was made in a hellish racist world and you can tell.

It's born of another time, obviously, but it stems entirely from a world where nigh on everyone was white, and people who weren't white stood out like sore thumbs, and were notable, exotic, remembered. That was not that long ago in the north of England, our settled cultures have traditionally been very, very, pale white.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> butchersapron You turn shit-stirring into an art form.
> 
> 
> My mum describes black people as coloured, because to her that's the polite term - black is what you say when you want to be dismissive or rude. The last thing she'd want to be is racist, but she was made in a hellish racist world and you can tell.
> ...



Jesus


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> butchersapron You turn shit-stirring into an art form.
> 
> 
> My mum describes black people as coloured, because to her that's the polite term - black is what you say when you want to be dismissive or rude. The last thing she'd want to be is racist, but she was made in a hellish racist world and you can tell.
> ...



Christ


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Jesus





eatmorecheese said:


> Christ



Surperstar?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> you insulted me by saying I was an apologist for racism


It’s not an insult. You literally wrote an apologism. This is it ->



Wookey said:


> It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.
> 
> Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles. That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.


----------



## belboid (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> butchersapron You turn shit-stirring into an art form.
> 
> 
> My mum describes black people as coloured, because to her that's the polite term - black is what you say when you want to be dismissive or rude. The last thing she'd want to be is racist, but she was made in a hellish racist world and you can tell.
> ...


She;s been a Labour Party member for forty years,  an English teacher, and an MP for 14 years. If, after all that, she still thinks about 'funny tinges' she is utterly hopeless.


----------



## Sue (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> For this thread?


Well if you're going to resign from a political party and set up a new outfit with a press conference billed as a 'major announcement on the future of British politics', a wee bit of preparation/thought about what it's all for/about might be an idea, if only so it doesn't go car crash when someone asks you some basic questions about it.

(I reckon with insights like this, a future in spindoctoring beckons...)


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 18, 2019)

Fucks sake, I'm meant to be reading for an Open University essay on the art of Benin and cross cultural encounters (I think) but this thread is far more entertaining. If I get low marks, I blame Urban. 

Also, Wookie, time to quit mate. Coloured is a fucking awful term to use to describe people.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> It was a garbled sentence, fuck knows where her head was going. But she isn't a racist.
> 
> Piccaninnies and watermelon smiles. That's where you want to aim your ire, imo.


Fucking hell.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> butchersapron You turn shit-stirring into an art form.
> 
> 
> My mum describes black people as coloured, because to her that's the polite term - black is what you say when you want to be dismissive or rude. The last thing she'd want to be is racist, but she was made in a hellish racist world and you can tell.
> ...



Thank you for the most obvious and patronising history lesson possible.  My mum's family are from Sunderland btw. My nan had only met one Black person in her life before she 1st came to London. Don't offer up lectures like that as if I can't possibly know those things, that's my family history too!

...but what does this have to do with describing people's skin colour as a 'funny tinge' now in 2019? On a day where you claim to be leaving the labour party because of racism.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Almost (well sort of) fisticuffs now on channel 4


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

It wasn’t the Phil Collins I thought it would be


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> You haven't answered any of my questions about what kind of person uses expressions like she did, you can't offer one valid explanation for why a person would even think that way.



Inherited, casual racism from a mainly white working-class upbringing in Northern England? Mixed with bad media training, and a low threshold for rhetorical nuance. That's the reason, surely?

There are lots of Corbynite activists lining up the hate guns against these 7 MPs, to discredit them and minimise their allegations of institutional racism. They're being opportunistic and feigning horror at what this one MP said, rather than focus on the _far more serious allegations_ that have been levelled today. I wonder how and why you are missing the bigger picture of left wing racism and anti-Semitism, which effects more people than "those who heard Angela fluff a line on the telly" and in many more serious ways.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Almost (well sort of) fisticuffs now on channel 4


Snow and Guru-Murthy finally giving the public what they want?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> She's not my mate, she never gets a fucking round in, are you serious?!
> 
> She's a white working-class English person from Yorkshire. Without being regionalist and judgmental, by which I mean I'm going to be regionalist and judgmental, I'm pretty sure she's seven shades of racist. But if she knows that, and keeps it safely between her own two ears and nowhere else, then it's fuck all to do with me. I certainly think today there are bigger targets to be mad at than this MP.
> 
> And to be clear, you insulted me by saying I was an apologist for racism, and for telling me to shut up. It was nothing to do with dear Ange. My mate.


All Yorkshire proles are racist now too. Mate of Laurie penny's by any chance?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Inherited, casual racism from a mainly white working-class upbringing in Northern England? Mixed with bad media training, and a low threshold for rhetorical nuance. That's the reason, surely?
> 
> There are lots of Corbynite activists lining up the hate guns against these 7 MPs, to discredit them and minimise their allegations of institutional racism. They're being opportunistic and feigning horror at what this one MP said, rather than focus on the _far more serious allegations_ that have been levelled today. I wonder how and why you are missing the bigger picture of left wing racism and anti-Semitism, which effects more people than "those who heard Angela fluff a line on the telly" and in many more serious ways.


To be fair, you've already said that you don't have any evidence for these serious allegations. Which are what, btw? Racism and anti-semitism, yes, but any specifics?

Also, you ironically made my point ahead of me: why are you excusing Smith's 'gaffe'? Why are you giving her the benefit of an "it isn't really her fault" backstory?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Inherited, casual racism from a mainly white working-class upbringing in Northern England? Mixed with bad media training, and a low threshold for rhetorical nuance. That's the reason, surely?
> 
> There are lots of Corbynite activists lining up the hate guns against these 7 MPs, to discredit them and minimise their allegations of institutional racism. They're being opportunistic and feigning horror at what this one MP said, rather than focus on the _far more serious allegations_ that have been levelled today. I wonder how and why you are missing the bigger picture of left wing racism and anti-Semitism, which effects more people than "those who heard Angela fluff a line on the telly" and in many more serious ways.



It’s almost as if it’s possible to be against things out of principle


----------



## Raheem (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> It wasn’t the Phil Collins I thought it would be


That should be put in quotes on a sticker on the front of the next Phil Collins CD.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Thank you for the most obvious and patronising history lesson possible.  My mum's family are from Sunderland btw. My nan had only met one Black person in her life before she 1st came to London. Don't offer up lectures like that as if I can't possibly know those things, that's my family history too!
> 
> ...but what does this have to do with describing people's skin colour as a 'funny tinge' now in 2019? On a day where you claim to be leaving the labour party because of racism.



You are so very easy to patronise, I can't help it! 

It wasn't a lecture, I wasn't trying to patronise you, just sharing a thing. If you hear lecturing and patronising then that's what you're bringing to the table, not me. Ask yourself why that might be. Have some pride.

If you're offended by the term "funny tinge" or whatever her full sentence was going to be before she stopped saying it, then that's your prerogative. I think you're wasting time and energy with that particular quibble, certainly mine, if not your own.


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Inherited, casual racism from a mainly white working-class upbringing in Northern England? Mixed with bad media training, and a low threshold for rhetorical nuance. That's the reason, surely?


There are plenty of white working class people in the north who aren’t racist 

Her media training must have been pretty bad if she even considered saying that. That’s probably Corbyn’s fault too though.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Inherited, casual racism from a mainly white working-class upbringing in Northern England? Mixed with bad media training, and a low threshold for rhetorical nuance. That's the reason, surely?


 You do understand that internalised, casual racism is still racism don't you?



> I wonder how and why you are missing the bigger picture of left wing racism and anti-Semitism, which effects more people than "those who heard Angela fluff a line on the telly" and in many more serious ways.



Oh she fluffed her lines now did she? We are back to you pretending what she said isn't actually racist?

I am not missing anything and you are being a complete dick by accusing me of such. I can comment on this as much as I like and that doesn't mean I don't care about or take an interest in other things.

Oh and for the record, fuck off referring to  the serious effects of racism. You have a bloody nerve given you clearly don't actually understand what racism is and have repeatedly tried to wookey-splain it away on this thread. 

Adds to the irony of these arseholes claiming to be anti-racist and you defending them in fact.

You've outed yourself as a complete arsehole with this.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> You are so very easy to patronise, I can't help it!
> 
> It wasn't a lecture, I wasn't trying to patronise you, just sharing a thing. If you hear lecturing and patronising then that's what you're bringing to the table, not me. Ask yourself why that might be. Have some pride.
> 
> If you're offended by the term "funny tinge" or whatever her full sentence was going to be before she stopped saying it, then that's your prerogative. I think you're wasting time and energy with that particular quibble, certainly mine, if not your own.


This is quite special. I don't think he even realises just what a colossal bell end he's coming across as.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Where’s the fun in that?


Not looking an utter shitferbrains wankstain like Wookey


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Not looking an utter shitferbrains wankstain like Wookey



Tbf he’s been preparing for that for a while


----------



## binka (Feb 18, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> This is quite special. I don't think he even realises just what a colossal bell end he's coming across as.


It's all really weird why would he choose this hill to die on? No one else is even trying to offer up a defence like this I don't get it


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

leave off Wookey , it’s clesrly (again) everyone elses fault


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> She's not my mate, she never gets a fucking round in, are you serious?!
> 
> She's a white working-class English person from Yorkshire. Without being regionalist and judgmental, by which I mean I'm going to be regionalist and judgmental, I'm pretty sure she's seven shades of racist. But if she knows that, and keeps it safely between her own two ears and nowhere else, then it's fuck all to do with me. I certainly think today there are bigger targets to be mad at than this MP.
> 
> And to be clear, you insulted me by saying I was an apologist for racism, and for telling me to shut up. It was nothing to do with dear Ange. My mate.



Just so I'm sure I understand the world according to Wookey, you believe that we voted to leave the EU because the country is racist, and that the Labour Party is institutionally racist and anti-semitic, but you also think that all white working class people are 7 shades of racist, but you don't think she's a racist? Presumably because she's quite middle class and didn't mean to do a racism, she's just incompetent?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

Don't worry black and funny tinged BAME people. She is sort of racist but it's not her fault and she'll at least try and keep it quiet on TV interviews.

What the fuck are you complaining about?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

binka said:


> It's all really weird why would he choose this hill to die on? No one else is even trying to offer up a defence like this I don't get it



To be fair, he'd already praised the #ScabbySeven as courageous brave and noble, so I assume he leapt to Smith's defence because he didn't want any reputational damage to his new political heroes. 

It probably makes sense, Wookey things working class people are all racist but he's aware he needs some working class people to hate Corbyn for anti-Corbyn politcs to work without people thinking he's really a Tory.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

_Ooh chuka i did a racism.
_
Seeing as the seventies are back and all.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> You do understand that internalised, casual racism is still racism don't you?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.

And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Neck-shaming now. Relentless.


----------



## binka (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.
> 
> And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.


White man explains racism to black woman. Great stuff


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.
> 
> And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.



Yes Rutita, how dare you argue back with Wookey?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> To be fair, he'd already praised the #ScabbySeven as courageous brave and noble, so I assume he leapt to Smith's defence because he didn't want any reputational damage to his new political heroes.
> 
> It probably makes sense, Wookey things working class people are all racist but he's aware he needs some working class people to hate Corbyn for anti-Corbyn politcs to work without people thinking he's really a Tory.



Not all working class people, just the ferret in trousers and flat cap yorkshire ones.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey put the shovel back in the shed, the hole you’re digging isn’t helping you.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.
> 
> And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.


You’re really not helping yourself.

Here’s what you could be saying: “what a stupid thing for someone to say when they’re supposed to be setting up a new anti-racist grouping”.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Actually, I think that is it! Wookey are you defending Angela "Seven Shades of Racist" Smith precisely because you need some working class people to criticise Corbyn, but obviously that requires a certain level of pragmatism doesn't it? Because working class people are all racist. So you have to excuse the racism of the proles in order to build alliances against Corbyn and Brexit!

Makes complete sense now. Genius strategy!

Except Smith isn't that working class really. But apart from that


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Just so I'm sure I understand the world according to Wookey, you believe that we voted to leave the EU because the country is racist, and that the Labour Party is institutionally racist and anti-semitic, but you also think that all white working class people are 7 shades of racist, but you don't think she's a racist? Presumably because she's quite middle class and didn't mean to do a racism, she's just incompetent?



I'd be very surprised if she wasn't "racist". I am racist. I suspect you are racist. How can we not be racist? We are the product of a racist system. Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level. Pretending we aren't racist is precisely part of the problem.

You are sexist too, and almost certainly homophobic. Fucking own it. Then reject it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Not all working class people, just the ferret in trousers and flat cap yorkshire ones.



A ferret in trousers wearing a flat cap would go down a storm at club on satdy neet lad!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Not all working class people, just the ferret in trousers and flat cap yorkshire ones.



That is *all* working class people in his mind. The brown ones are probably subaltern or something.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I am racist.



We've gone fucking meta here. I thought I'd worked it out but now I'm totally confused.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Wookey put the shovel back in the shed, the hole you’re digging isn’t helping you.


Can't. If they lose this first battle then there will be no war.

This crass public demonstration of a racist mindset must be accepted by all as exemplary anti-racism. If this falls then all the other dominoes do too.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'd be very surprised if she wasn't "racist". I am racist. I suspect you are racist. How can we not be racist? We are the product of a racist system. Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level. Pretending we aren't racist is precisely part of the problem.
> 
> You are sexist too, and almost certainly homophobic. Fucking own it. Then reject it.


He got to it finally,_ the flip_.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'd be very surprised if she wasn't "racist". I am racist. I suspect you are racist. How can we not be racist? We are the product of a racist system. Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level. Pretending we aren't racist is precisely part of the problem.
> 
> You are sexist too, and almost certainly homophobic. Fucking own it. Then reject it.



This is brilliant too. Internalised racism aside, most of us manage to avoid overtly racist language in everyday life. Nevermind when we're being interviewed over the launch of an antiracist political party.

I mean, if we're all racist why is everyone so hard on Nick Griffin?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level.


And that's what Smith did, is it?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> This is brilliant too. Internalised racism aside, most of us manage to avoid overtly racist language in everyday life. Nevermind when we're being interviewed over the launch of an antiracist political party.
> 
> I mean, if we're all racist why is everyone so hard on Nick Griffin?



If we're all racist why is Wookey so hard on the Labour Party?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> And that's what Smith did, is it?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> If we're all racist why is Wookey so hard on the Labour Party?


It's almost as if they're exploiting anitisemitism in labour to use antiracism as progressive cover for their right wing agenda isn't it?


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> There are plenty of white working class people in the north who aren’t racist



There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.

I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.
> 
> And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.



 You what?

You are all over the place and it will be a cold day in hell before you, with your silly excuses and attempts to glasslight will tell me what I should and should call racism. You've proved you actually don't have a clue what you are talking about anyway. You haven't offered an opinion on racism, all you've offered are excuses for it.

I'd say describing a nonwhite person as being a 'funny tinge' is dodgy as fuck and yes, you have defended it. Tinge is a synonym for colour or hue. It would have been better if she had  said 'coloured' ffs, she wouldn't be the only one to use such an outdated term to mean 'Brown', but she didn't because that isn't what she wanted to express...her use of the word 'funny' was important to her description.

The only neck around here you need to focus on is your own given your posts today have left you up to your neck in bullshit.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.
> 
> I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.



So now it's OK that she said something racist because everyone is racist? 

Why is she leaving the Labour party and why are you supporting them again?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.
> 
> I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.


Note who the absolver is.

Apart from the arrogance, _he's also an admitted racist._


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's almost as if they're exploiting anitisemitism in labour to use antiracism as progressive cover for their right wing agenda isn't it?



Which isn’t at all what team corbyn are doing re Smith


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.
> 
> I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.


Your argument was that she wasn't racist - at least not in what she said earlier. Not that she was. Just to remind you.

edit: of course you went on to call her a racist in general once you realised what you'd done.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Which isn’t at all what team corbyn are doing re Smith



Not sure I follow you there? If you mean they're using her fuckup to deflect criticism over antisemitism I'm sure you're right?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

binka said:


> White man explains racism to black woman. Great stuff



What I especially liked about his brief history of the _White_ north of England  on the last page was that he thought he was teaching me something. It was pretty telling that he hadn't even considered that like him, my mother is White and all that side of my family are from the North and have been since the 1600s too as far as I know.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 18, 2019)

Is Derek Hatton going to get Berger's seat?.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's almost as if they're exploiting anitisemitism in labour to use antiracism as progressive cover for their right wing agenda isn't it?



SURELY NOT


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Not sure I follow you there? If you mean they're using her fuckup to deflect criticism over antisemitism I'm sure you're right?



Yes.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

I work with quite a few people from Stocksbridge, Deepcar and Penistone.
Nearly all vote Labour and all voted Leave. They have been saying for ages that if Angela Smith was the Labour candidate at the next GE they wouldn’t vote for her. Purely because she is a backstabber, they don’t trust her for not supporting Corbyn and asking for a second referendum.
If she’s got wind of this and her small majority, no wonder she walked.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Is Derek Hatton going to get Berger's seat?.


Yes, Derek Hatton is going to 'get' Berger's seat.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist.



Why do you call so many people racists then?


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> This is pretty damning.
> 
> 30 MPs Discussed Quitting Labour, But The Chaos Of The New Independent Group Turned Them Off





> Umunna, who has strong personal support in his Streatham constituency, which voted 79% Remain in the referendum, is seen as the most likely to succeed.



This ( quote from article) is debatable. Chuka unlike Kate Hoey does not stand up to Lambeth Council on behalf of constituents. He has never really opposed the Council "regeneration" scheme for Cressingham Gardens ( a well loved Council Estate).

Hoey has a lot of personal support, despite her being Brexit supporter, due to taking on the New Labour run Lambeth Council.

Chuka was originally seen as a poster boy for post Blairite Labour. Being member of Compass and opposing Iraq War.

Iraq led a lot of Labour party members to not renew membership.

He gradually moved to the right once elected. So never criticises Lambeth Council.

He was a rising star destined for higher things then Corbyn got elected. I remember one of my local Cllrs telling me how wonderful be was.

He has been having problems with his local constituency membership with the influx after Corbyn. ( old Labour returning and young people). recently argument about procedure of who has say in local constituency party. He did have a firm hold on the constituency party but this was under threat.

Friend said the New Labour lot ( young work in communications) would sit on one side of room at local party meetings and the old Labour plus young new members would sit on other side.

So I wouldn't say he is as popular as he was.

If he did stand in by election I reckon my friend and others in the local party would be all out canvassing for the official Labour candidate.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Is Derek Hatton going to get Berger's seat?.



He could rent out all their seats on a HMO basis


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Is Derek Hatton going to get Berger's seat?.



YES. Bring back Degsy! 

At least he'd wear a decent suit. See the state of the Scruffy Seven?


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, Derek Hatton is going to 'get' Berger's seat.



I bet Stephen Kinnock and his dad are apoplectic.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> YES. Bring back Degsy!
> 
> At least he'd wear a decent suit. See the state of the Scruffy Seven?



The return of the (tailored) Mac.


----------



## elbows (Feb 18, 2019)

Oops I just stuck this in the wrong thread by accident so I may as well post it here too where I originally meant to:

It seems that in the not too distant past, Angela was concerned about renationalising water, lest this development bring a funny tinge to the environment or the water.



> In October 2018, Smith challenged the policy of her party over the proposed re-nationalisation of the domestic water sector. She argued that taking water out of private ownership risked 'cutting investment in the sector to raise environmental standards'. Smith’s register of interests for 2016 show that she and her husband, whom she employs as her senior parliamentary researcher, were treated to football matches and dinner three times by Whitehouse Construction, a subcontractor to Anglian Water.



Angela Smith (Sheffield MP) - Wikipedia


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 18, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> If he did stand in by election I reckon my friend and others in the local party would be all out canvassing for the official Labour candidate.


If there's a by election Momentum will organise thousands to canvass against him. He's deluded.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

It would make my year if at this point Sinn Fein would take their seats in Westminster.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Feb 18, 2019)

In a month only political nerds will remember this happened.

Labour is no closer and no further from being in a position to form a government. All of them bar Smith sit in comfortable Labour majorities. None of them a loss but seen as a victory for those round here who openly despise most of the British voters. 

In short meh.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

ferrelhadley said:


> In a month only political nerds will remember this happened.
> 
> Labour is no closer and no further from being in a position to form a government. All of them bar Smith sit in comfortable Labour majorities. None of them a loss but seen as a victory for those round here who openly despise most of the British voters.
> 
> In short meh.


No mad scientist superior sausage rage this time? Losing your mojo?


----------



## cantsin (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, Derek Hatton is going to 'get' Berger's seat.



won't happen


----------



## tim (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> _Ooh chuka i did a racism.
> _
> Seeing as the seventies are back and all.




in my beret*.

* Culturally appropriated item of Basque/Euskara headwear.


----------



## xenon (Feb 18, 2019)

You shouldn't talk about someone in the self defined non racist party.. Sorry, group, who just about pulls back from the brink of saying something racist on telly because she's an old lady from Yorkshire and even if she is a little bit racist, like what they are up there, because there are some anti semites in the Labour party. Which none of you have ever mentioned, criticised or even know about til I told you.

Righto.


----------



## Theisticle (Feb 18, 2019)

Glorious self-own from Skwawkbox


----------



## elbows (Feb 18, 2019)




----------



## Gramsci (Feb 18, 2019)

Here is background to when I said in post 694 that Chuka has recently had problems with his local party membership:

Umunna supporters: “he’ll leave and start own party if CLP votes AMM”. No denial.



> As the SKWAWKBOX reported last night, there was drama in Streatham as Labour members voted by 190 to 183 to switch to all-member meetings (AMM) instead of the previous ‘general committee’ structure, which left-wing members say was being used by supporters of local MP Chuka Umunna to retain control of the CLP (constituency Labour party).
> 
> Those right-wing supporters made every effort to prevent the change – including an interesting threat.
> 
> ...


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Sarkar can fuck off and all


----------



## Theisticle (Feb 18, 2019)

Ash also passed off the falsehood that their website was registered in 2015. Swkawkbox originated the claim and then deleted it. 



Ash clip:


----------



## 8ball (Feb 18, 2019)

From what I’ve seen of the Magnificent Seven, they do seem like a bunch of execrable cunts.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> If she’s got wind of this and her small majority, no wonder she walked.


This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?

I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.


----------



## elbows (Feb 18, 2019)

8ball said:


> From what I’ve seen of the Magnificent Seven, they do seem like a bunch of execrable cunts.



The seven deadly sins.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 18, 2019)

Nah too shit to be deadly, seven mildly uncomfortable bad points.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 18, 2019)

So where are we? Been in my sick bed all day. Looks like Chukka and six people even less well known than him have quit cos Jezza. Yet one is blaming it on anti-semitism in spite of her record of crying wolf on that issue and another is proclaiming to be pissed by racism in the party, a problem she has solved by leaving the party. And Chukka, dimwit who joins the Labour Party when he’s a sodding Tory.

Is this where were are now?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?
> 
> I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.


Only two are young and egotistical enough to put themselves up again.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> So where are we? Been in my sick bed all day. Looks like Chukka and six people even less well known than him have quit cos Jezza. Yet one is blaming it on anti-semitism in spite of her record of crying wolf on that issue and another is proclaiming to be pissed by racism in the party, a problem she has solved by leaving the party. And Chukka, dimwit who joins the Labour Party when he’s a sodding Tory.
> 
> Is this where were are now?


And wookey is a racist.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> You what?
> 
> You are all over the place and it will be a cold day in hell before you, with your silly excuses and attempts to glasslight will tell me what I should and should call racism. You've proved you actually don't have a clue what you are talking about anyway. You haven't offered an opinion on racism, all you've offered are excuses for it.
> 
> ...



Well, sarcastically speaking, you have definitely shed some light on the nuanced issue of racism today, and given me a lot to think about. Thanks for sharing all that hard-won insight in such an affecting way. With allies like you I barely need enemies.

You can call racism wherever you see it, fill your boots; no-one is telling you what to say, so do stop repeatedly accusing me of that. And "gaslighting" is a cheap accusation, made glibly. Sad you would hijack that term when I'm doing no such thing, you really just reduce your own credibility with shit like that.

You can shout Racist at a woman who just resigned because of her party's bigotry and intolerance, you go! Good for you. 

I'm not saying she isn't racist. I'm saying she's almost certainly as casually racist as almost every other middle aged Northern working class woman I have ever met. It's hardly news. She _will_ see Black and Brown people as different to her, we should assume that as a given.

What's news is the institutional racism and anti-Semitism from the very top to the very bottom of the Labour party that has caused donkey's years of Labour experience to walk out of the party.

That bit seems not to animate you quite as much, or is that a misperception?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> So where are we? Been in my sick bed all day. Looks like Chukka and six people even less well known than him have quit cos Jezza. Yet one is blaming it on anti-semitism in spite of her record of crying wolf on that issue and another is proclaiming to be pissed by racism in the party, a problem she has solved by leaving the party. And Chukka, dimwit who joins the Labour Party when he’s a sodding Tory.
> 
> Is this where were are now?



I see wookey has passed on the baton


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> And wookey is a racist.



Been quite a day. Should’ve done a Lemsip and got out of my pit.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Well, sarcastically speaking, you have definitely shed some light on the nuanced issue of racism today, and given me a lot to think about. Thanks for sharing all that hard-won insight in such an affecting way. With allies like you I barely need enemies.
> 
> You can call racism wherever you see it, fill your boots; no-one is telling you what to say, so do stop repeatedly accusing me of that. And "gaslighting" is a cheap accusation, made glibly. Sad you would hijack that term when I'm doing no such thing, you really just reduce your own credibility with shit like that.
> 
> ...



I spoke too soon


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I see wookey has passed on the baton



Wut?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Crying wolf?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> she isn't a racist.





Wookey said:


> I'm not saying she isn't racist.



Any more.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Crying wolf?



Yeah.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> What's news is the institutional racism and anti-Semitism from the very top to the very bottom of the Labour party that has caused donkey's years of Labour experience to walk out of the party.


Again, I can't help but ask "such as..?".

I'm honestly not even saying there isn't institutional racism and/or anti-semitism in the Labour party, but continually referring to it without being able to cite examples really isn't helping your argument.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?
> 
> I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.



I presume that she thinks better to leave and make an attempt at looking principled and holy than thou, than losing her seat as her constituents oust her.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Only two are young and egotistical enough to put themselves up again.


So what are the others up to? Raising their profile for whatever comes next?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> YES. Bring back Degsy!
> 
> At least he'd wear a decent suit. See the state of the Scruffy Seven?


He's back in Labour apparently, Galloway next?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

wookey said:
			
		

> she isn't a racist.






			
				wookey said:
			
		

> I'm not saying she isn't racist.





danny la rouge said:


> Any more.


Yep:



> I'm pretty sure she's seven shades of racist


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I presume that she thinks better to leave and make an attempt at looking principled and holy than thou, than losing her seat as her constituents oust her.


I can see that to a point, but surely at the next election, when she'll principally stand as an independent, they'll do that anyway


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?
> 
> I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.



You have to remember they initially hoped to start with 30 Labour MP's, and they're touting for Tories. Once they'd got that far, the Lib Dems would follow. They weren't intending to be such a small group, they didn't factor in that Angela Smith shouldn't be allowed on telly, and they didn't quite realise how many people would react to this as if they'd got up on stage and started vomiting on each other. 

Smith knows her own CLP don't want her and Labour voters don't want her. Added to which she nearly lost her seat in 2017 unlike the others whose vote share increased I think, so it's possible she genuinely thinks that's Corbyn's fault. But attached to a successful new political vehicle, she might have won over Remainers and pro-EU Tories and she knows the Tories massively improved their vote share there. It's not inconceivable she thought it was the only way to retain her seat. Added to which they'd presumably see Nick Clegg's seat, which was Lib Dem for years, as a natural target for somebody. Maybe she was given the impression this new party would be doing a lot of high profile campaigning in the neighbouring constituency. 

This is all fairly wild speculation obviously but then it's hard to produce convincing reasons why she would think this would work - think you just have to remember she might have seen this as her only chance of keeping her seat. 

As funny as this has all been, it's a shame in a way that today has gone so badly for them because now a) other nasty bastards in the Labour Party haven't left with them and b) I don't expect much destabilisation for the Tories after today.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> I can see that to a point, but surely at the next election, when she'll principally stand as an independent, they'll do that anyway



She would probably stand in another constituency, probably chosen by her new leader. Whether that’s Chukka, Blair or Clegg is another quandary.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah.



Yes. Taking wookeys baton. (Or sharing it as he’s still running)


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

The general idea they've been pushing to media is that they won't be standing at all in their old seats. As if chuka would ever adhere to that.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> What's news is the institutional racism and anti-Semitism from the very top to the very bottom of the Labour party that has caused donkey's years of Labour experience to walk out of the party.



Talk more about this please. Expand.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> The general idea they've been pushing to media is that they won't be standing at all in their old seats. As if chuka would ever adhere to that.



Well if they have no interest in representing their current constituencies that's even more reason for them all to resign and fuck off.


----------



## elbows (Feb 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?
> 
> I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.



I think some people dont necessarily want to remain as MPs if their ideology is not in the ascendance and they dont have enough influence, especially if the writing is already on the wall for them. Or they are somewhat resigned to their fate but still want to wriggle around a bit just in case there is room to save themselves, or at least go down in a manner that allows them to see themselves as sacrificing something for an ideological cause.

Alternatively, if the likes of the 'Tom Watson wants a reshuffle' narrative the Guardian are parping on about this evening is anything to go by, I think plenty of the calculations are still all about the fate of Labour, not the fate of this new group. If their existence outside Labour can increase the pressure inside Labour, the party may yet move back in their sort of direction, and thats what they probably still hope for. Thats certainly what some Labour MPs who didnt jump ship today are likely angling for, try to use the reality of the 7 and their own threats to join them to ramp up the pressure, without actually having to jump ship themselves. I hope bluffs get called.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> And wookey is a racist.



Wookey is adult enough to recognise in himself the lingering unwanted effects of social influencing, inherited from a society stratified by various privileges and unfair power-structures based on class, gender, race and sexuality, and actually believes that to deny the existence of such an unhealthy inheritance _in everybody_ is a step closer to the realisation of thought-crime, and destined to re-enforce the stratifications of society and not, as he would prefer, to undo them. There's a thread on this somewhere...

Or yeah, Wookey is a racist.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Wookey is adult enough to recognise in himself the lingering unwanted effects of social influencing, inherited from a society stratified by various privileges and unfair power-structures based on class, gender, race and sexuality, and actually believes that to deny the existence of such an unhealthy inheritance _in everybody_ is a step closer to the realisation of thought-crime, and destined to re-enforce the stratifications of society and not, as he would prefer, to undo them. There's a thread on this somewhere...
> 
> Or yeah, Wookey is a racist.


Wookey is the best flipper. _Hey you thought i was defending a stupid racist mindset but i was *really *doing a great ANTI-racism. Be as good as me racists._


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

I only hope Wookey doesn't start posting and referring to himself in the third person.


----------



## killer b (Feb 18, 2019)

this is some incredible work.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 18, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Yes. Taking wookeys baton. (Or sharing it as he’s still running)



Think you need to go back and re-read shit. I ain’t touching wookey’s baton, ta very much.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> He's back in Labour apparently, Galloway next?



Nah. Galloway probably not a great look given the antisemitism scandal. Think Degsy is sufficiently petit bourgeois these days to be considered safe.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I only hope Wookey doesn't start posting and referring to himself in the third person.


Hey if Arthur scargill did not think that talking in the third person was a great idea then you can be sure that arthur scargill would not do so.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I only hope Wookey doesn't start posting and referring to himself in the third person.



Wookey spotted earlier


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Hey if Arthur scargill did not think that talking in the third person was a great idea then you can be sure that arthur scargill would not do so.



Wookey and Arthur, by heck a raight team.


----------



## mx wcfc (Feb 18, 2019)

This is shit.  Icba to read 25 pages, but here's my view.

The 7 are traitors.  We have the Tories on the rack and they run away.  Scum.

There is far more racism in the tory party than in Labour.

Being critical of Israel is not anti-semitism.

Fuck it if I'm wrong.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Yep:



You clever lad butchersapron !

As we discovered, it depends on the definition of racism.

I said she wasn't racist, in a hating of differently-coloured people kind of way. I still don't think she is.

But she is racist, in the same way I am, you are, almost everybody is to some degree, at some time. In that wider sense, I imagine she carries a lot of ingrained prejudices that were in her mind before she was allowed to walk to school on her own.

But if we're all products of a racist society, and all inherited social and personal racism should be undermined and challenged, then being able to distinguish in a nuanced way between a passive and recognised racist inheritance and an active racist hate crime is crucial.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

I wonder though wookey, is it first necessary to defend a racist mindset as actually being non-racist -  anti-racist even  - before admitting racism. Ta for any help.


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Wookey is the best flipper_._



"Harpo, get the seal".


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I only hope Wookey doesn't start posting and referring to himself in the third person.



He would never do that.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> I wonder though wookey, is it first necessary to defend a racist mindset as actually being non-racist -  anti-racist even  - before admitting racism. Ta for any help.



My primary aim was not to defend Angela Whatsit, it was to re-direct attention to the far more worrying systemic racism and Jew-hating that has infected the Labour party, according to both Jews and people of colour close to the aforementioned party.

Do you think Luciana Berger got out of bed on the wrong side or something?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> My primary aim was not to defend Angela Whatsit, it was to re-direct attention to the far more worrying systemic racism and Jew-hating that has infected the Labour party, according to both Jews and people of colour close to the aforementioned party.
> 
> Do you think Luciana Berger got out of bed on the wrong side or something?


I don't care what your primary aim was. What I ridiculed above is what you did.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> He would never do that.



Sprocket. Yes that racist, Yorkshire bastard says he is glad to hear that.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> My primary aim was not to defend Angela Whatsit, it was to re-direct attention to the far more worrying systemic racism and Jew-hating that has infected the Labour party, according to both Jews and people of colour close to the aforementioned party.
> 
> Do you think Luciana Berger got out of bed on the wrong side or something?





mx wcfc said:


> This is shit.  Icba to read 25 pages, but here's my view.
> 
> The 7 are traitors.  We have the Tories on the rack and they run away.  Scum.
> 
> ...



The politics of hope


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I ain’t touching wookey’s baton, ta very much.



You always say that, and half a lager later you're giving it the eyelashes and touching my collar.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

This strange and wondrous news wookey brings of anti-semitism in labour  - blimey. I wonder what would have happened if people he's speaking to had noted and been fighting against for, i don't know, fucking years, before it fitted in with his busy and, no doubt, glamorous schedule.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Well, sarcastically speaking, you have definitely shed some light on the nuanced issue of racism today, and given me a lot to think about. Thanks for sharing all that hard-won insight in such an affecting way. With allies like you I barely need enemies.
> 
> You can call racism wherever you see it, fill your boots; no-one is telling you what to say, so do stop repeatedly accusing me of that. And "gaslighting" is a cheap accusation, made glibly. Sad you would hijack that term when I'm doing no such thing, you really just reduce your own credibility with shit like that.
> 
> ...



You had the opportunity of having the last word and this flip-flopping word and opinion salad is what you choose to do with it?

You don't care about racism, you only care about the racism that you think is important.

Another racist left the Labour party today so you should be celebrating but you aren't. It doesn't seem to animate you because her racism isn't the kind you see fit to challenge. 

The joke is if she were a Tory MP at the time of saying what she did you'd not be offering her an inch of _'oh, just like all other Middle aged northern women, p_roduct of her environment, we're all racist anyway' nonsense.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I said she wasn't racist, in a hating of differently-coloured people kind of way. I still don't think she is.



Didn't you say you thought she was probably 7 kinds of racist? 



Wookey said:


> But if we're all products of a racist society, and all inherited social and personal racism should be undermined and challenged, then being able to distinguish in a nuanced way between a passive and recognised racist inheritance and an active racist hate crime is crucial.



So racism is ok, but racist hate crime is the bad thing?


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 18, 2019)

Something that Chuka might have taken interest in if thinking of standing as independent is recent Council by election in Thorton. A Council Ward in his constituency. Due to Labour Cllr standing down due to work commitments.

There was big swing to the LDs. Likely due to the LD position on opposing Brexit. Lambeth as a whole is one of the strongest Remain areas in the country.

So Chuka might think he could stand a chance as he has always been stongly Remain and wants a peoples vote.

The Labour candidate who won the Council seat was the new young New Labour side of party. But still the Labour percentage sent down. Looks like those who voted on a low turnout wanted to send national party a message.



> Yesterday’s by-election was a test of how well Labour’s metropolitan voting coalition is holding together. The answer was “not very well”. On a turnout of 27 per cent, the party’s share of the vote fell from 63 per cent in May 2018 to 45 per cent. The Liberal Democrats recovered their position as the main challengers following their coalition-era slump, rising from 10 per cent last year to 33 per cent. Their candidate, retired NHS worker Rebecca Macnair re-established Thornton’s status as a marginal ward with a hefty swing of 21 per cent from Labour. She was still 309 votes short of the winning candidate Stephen Donnelly, a young LGBT Labour activist who contested St Leonard’s ward in Streatham in 2018 where he lost to the Green Party.
> 
> Even though Donnelly himself is a pro-European, according to local MP Chuka Umunna he suffered from Labour’s “incoherent Brexit policy which constantly came up on the doorstep”. The national polls have not picked up much movement from Labour to Liberal Democrat or Green among Remain voters, but the Thornton result – in a ward that was probably over 80 per cent Remain in 2016 – is sobering nonetheless. In a divided ward like this, it is reasonable to conclude that there must have been an enormous swing in the middle-class areas.



Lambeth: Labour wins Thornton by-election, but Lib Dem comeback bodes ill for Corbyn Brexit strategy - OnLondon


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Didn't you say you thought she was probably 7 kinds of racist?


7 funny tinges of racist?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 18, 2019)

Well this thread took slightly longer than usual to go to shit at least.


----------



## belboid (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> the far more worrying systemic racism and Jew-hating that has infected the Labour party, according to both Jews and people of colour close to the aforementioned party


We all know about the supposed ‘Jew-hating’, but do tell us about this other racism you claim is ‘systemic’


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 18, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well this thread took slightly longer than usual to go to shit at least.



I blame the young uns today, MPs can’t even be racist these days!


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> My primary aim was not to defend Angela Whatsit, it was to re-direct attention to the far more worrying systemic racism and Jew-hating that has infected the Labour party, according to both Jews and people of colour close to the aforementioned party.



Saying jew-hating means that you can't work out how to spell or whether to say anti-semitism or anti-semetism. Which means you ain't been typing it that much. 

I wonder why.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> My primary aim was not to defend Angela Whatsit, it was to re-direct attention to the far more worrying systemic racism and Jew-hating that has infected the Labour party, according to both Jews and people of colour close to the aforementioned party.
> 
> Do you think Luciana Berger got out of bed on the wrong side or something?


Do you think nobody has noticed the anti semitism stories? We’ve had prolonged discussion of them here. (For example, there’s this, which, to some degree, sums up my views on the matter: Jeremy Corbyn's time is up ).

The thing is, though, that we can have views on more than one thing at a time. And it is also possible to take a view on the way that a group of 7 MPs handle themselves _the very day_ they say they’re leaving Labour in large part over racism.

“I am leaving behind a culture of bigotry” said one of them.

We are entitled to ask: “are you sure?”


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> “I am leaving behind a culture of bigotry” said one of them.


Not much of a legacy to boast of is it?


----------



## killer b (Feb 18, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Do you think nobody has noticed the anti semitism stories? We’ve had prolonged discussion of them here. (For example, there’s this, which, to some degree, sums up my views on the matter: Jeremy Corbyn's time is up ).
> 
> The thing is, though, that we can have views on more than one thing at a time. And it is also possible to take a view on the way that a group of 7 MPs handle themselves _the very day_ they say they’re leaving Labour in large part over racism.
> 
> ...


62 pages on a dedicated thread here too: Labour + Anti Semitism


----------



## ska invita (Feb 18, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> If she’s got wind of this and her small majority, no wonder she walked.


The question is how many more Lab MPs might jump before being pushed when that times comes for them?
And if there is a brexit deal on the table that the Labour front bench can support then plenty more will jump at that point too. Other Brexit eventualities might bring others to jump. Some Tories might even go. 
Damp, unappealing squib as today appears to be, this isnt necessarily the end. Over 170 Labour MPs voted against Corbyn in the coup of 2016. There are sure to be some more that peel off, and plenty of triggers and moments at which to do so. I hope.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 18, 2019)

belboid said:


> We all know about the supposed ‘Jew-hating’, but do tell us about this other racism you claim is ‘systemic’




It would also be interesting to know how he thinks systemic or institutionalised racism comes about if not through 'inherited' and 'internalised' opinions and values being unchallenged.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 18, 2019)

As I'm Lambeth interesting to see Steve Reed MP in Croydon not supporting Chuka.

Those of us in Lambeth will remember Steve as the Blairite leader of Lambeth Council. He was genuine believer of the Third Way and set up the "Cooperative Council" idea.

When the Streatham constituency came up he tried to get chosen for the seat.

It appeared to be his for the taking as successful leader of the Council. The local party went for Chuka. Then seen as left alternative to a Blairite Steve Reed. Local party membership were becoming tired of Blairism. 

Understandably Reed wasn't happy. 


> Back in 2009, Reed, as leader of Lambeth Council, had expected to be selected as the prospective Labour candidate for his then home constituency of Streatham. But Umunna came along with a more radical, left-wing prospectus than his Blairite rival, and won over local party members who had tired of the party’s dalliance with neo-liberalism.



And:




> This time, Reed – himself a People’s Vote supporter – was having no truck with the undermining of the party.
> 
> On Twitter, Reed wrote, “I’m watching the seven MPs quitting the party on TV and I’m more convinced than ever that Labour, the greatest force for social change this country’s ever known, can lead Britain forward if we now come together as a party to shape the future.”



Reed unlke Chuka is Labour and will stay Labour. He worked his way up the hard way through local politics. Not as charismatic as Chuka but a hard worker for the party. 

Croydon Labour MP Reed is quick to reject Umunna’s splitters


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Reed also was the MP who put forward Seni’s Law.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

ska invita said:


> The question is how many more Lab MPs might jump before being pushed when that times comes for them?
> And if there is a brexit deal on the table that the Labour front bench can support then plenty more will jump at that point too. Other Brexit eventualities might bring others to jump. Some Tories might even go.
> Damp, unappealing squib as today appears to be, this isnt necessarily the end. Over 170 Labour MPs voted against Corbyn in the coup of 2016. There are sure to be some more that peel off, and plenty of triggers and moments at which to do so. I hope.



Liked for the hope


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

I suppose I hadn't considered that some of them aren't interested in standing again, and just want to damage Corbyn/stop Brexit. Hopefully more will follow.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Saying jew-hating means that you can't work out how to spell or whether to say anti-semitism or anti-semetism. Which means you ain't been typing it that much.
> 
> I wonder why.



I always have to type that twice to be fair. And I know I type it quite a bit cos I can remember being really annoyed bit for years.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

My phone always autocorrects to antisemtism


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I assume she was trying to make a rhetorical point on live TV, and her brain wasn't up to the task - the fact she bit it and rewound tells me she was aware she was on dodgy territory, and that's more important to me than insisting everyone has a pure as snow racism-free hive mind, because that's unrealistic.


You sink lower than I thought possible.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 18, 2019)

Chuka has been silent on accusations of institutional racism in Lambeth Council.

Something that been accusations of for quite some time. 

Lambeth Unison calls for immediate action to ‘tackle institutional racism in the council’


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 18, 2019)

Nottingham East Labour Party calls for Chris Leslie to resign


----------



## 8ball (Feb 18, 2019)

Hoping Tom Watson fucks off tomorrow.


----------



## elbows (Feb 18, 2019)

I wonder if Owen Smith still intends to join them, but wants his own moment in the spotlight and so didnt want to do it at the same time as the 7.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'd be very surprised if she wasn't "racist". I am racist. I suspect you are racist. How can we not be racist? We are the product of a racist system. Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level. Pretending we aren't racist is precisely part of the problem.
> 
> You are sexist too, and almost certainly homophobic. Fucking own it. Then reject it.


Is this that movie fella?


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> You sink lower than I thought possible.



Then you lack imagination.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 18, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> There was big swing to the LDs. Likely due to the LD position on opposing Brexit. Lambeth as a whole is one of the strongest Remain areas in the country.





Gramsci said:


> The Labour candidate who won the Council seat was the new young New Labour side of party. But still the Labour percentage sent down. Looks like those who voted on a low turnout wanted to send national party a message.



or uninspired by the new labour gentrifying estate-bulldozing bunch?  i'm not local so just speculating.  was there a credible alternative?  was it people switching to the LD's or previous labour voters abstaining?

snag with the new labour types is they see a bad election result as a sign they should move further right wing and faster, and see a good election result as justification for carrying on moving right

blargh


----------



## agricola (Feb 18, 2019)

elbows said:


> I wonder if Owen Smith still intends to join them, but wants his own moment in the spotlight and so didnt want to do it at the same time as the 7.



He's probably watching _Seven Samurai_ right now to work out which character he could plausibly be; my money is on Rikichi.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 18, 2019)

Not the peasant who's crying all the time?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

The footage of her fuck up is at 1.3 million views.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2019)

They played it on the 2100 rolling news then at 2200 Laura K did a very different piece. Triumphant, accusatory. I think there were trumpets. No mention of fuck up.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 18, 2019)

Survation poll seems positive about the NCP (not the car parks or the stalinists).


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 18, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> or uninspired by the new labour gentrifying estate-bulldozing bunch?  i'm not local so just speculating.  was there a credible alternative?  was it people switching to the LD's or previous labour voters abstaining?
> 
> snag with the new labour types is they see a bad election result as a sign they should move further right wing and faster, and see a good election result as justification for carrying on moving right
> 
> blargh



The Thornton Ward counts the least deprived in Lambeth. Unlike my Coldharbour Ward which is the most deprived. In the bottom 20% in the country.  Thornton is south on me so don't know it so well. But it would have more middle class composition than my Ward ( despite Brixton being gentrified). The southern end of Thornton definitely so. Not Tory voters.

The Greens have been the credible alternative to Labour. Winning enough seats to become a recognised opposition. Council policies on libraries has been a big issue.

The wards with estates like Cressingham ( a Council estate under threat of registration) still vote Labour. Like my Coldharbour Ward. Labour vote is guaranteed. I did help canvass for ex Labour popular Cllr in Coldharbour she didn't get in ( last Council election). She stood as an Independent. People vote Labour and thats that.

The LDs used to have some seats. They were good Cllrs but lost them all when voters punished LDs for working with Tories and going back on promises about school fees.

So this result in Thornton has been a surprise. I think its due to LDs stance on Brexit. I don't know which bit of country your are from but Lambeth is Remain. And a lot of people are angry about Brexit. So LD have gained at expense of Labour who nationally appear to support some form of Brexit. So I think its switching.

As with LDs losing all seats due to Clegg getting into bed with Tories national issues affect small local elections like this one imo.


----------



## oryx (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> I'm saying she's almost certainly as casually racist as almost every other middle aged Northern working class woman I have ever met. It's hardly news. She _will_ see Black and Brown people as different to her, we should assume that as a given.



I'd love to hear you say that to a roomful of my middle-aged, Northern, working-class female friends.


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 18, 2019)

If they were genuine I think they'd have to try and win in places like Streatham as it is in the most pro Remain part of the UK. But when it comes down to it they'd lose to Labour. 

They're really about preventing mild social democracy at any cost so I think they'll stand in Midlands marginals on a largely policy free but virulently anti Corbyn ticket. They won't win but they'll possibly prevent a Labour government and then head off to the consultancy jobs their backers have lined up. 

Newsnight was very enthusiastic about more MPs leaving tonight.


----------



## Favelado (Feb 18, 2019)

oryx said:


> I'd love to hear you say that to a roomful of my middle-aged, Northern, working-class female friends.



Some of them might even been black or brown themselves. Imagine!


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

oryx said:


> I'd love to hear you say that to a roomful of my middle-aged, Northern, working-class female friends.



Well, it depends on context, are we standing in a room at the back of the local pub, what are we doing? Why am I there?? Am I the stripper?


----------



## Favelado (Feb 18, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Well, it depends on context, are we standing in a room at the back of the local pub, what are we doing? Why am I there?? Am I the stripper?



Shut up you cunt.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 18, 2019)

Favelado said:


> Shut up you cunt.



How about nope? And drop the language, please, I'm not here to babysit.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

Favelado said:


> Shut up you cunt.



A message we can all unite behind


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 19, 2019)

Hey guys, I reckon we need a bit of this yeah


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Well, it depends on context, are we standing in a room at the back of the local pub, what are we doing? Why am I there?? Am I the stripper?


That's right. When you get a roomful of middle-aged Nothern women together, it's going to be in a pub watching a male stripper. FFS.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> That's right. When you get a roomful of middle-aged Nothern women together, it's going to be in a pub watching a male stripper. FFS.



Nope. Don't be so lazy you daft sod, have you ever read any of my posts EVER?

The last time I was alone in a room of middle-aged Northern working class women as posited in the imaginary scenario where I'm telling them they are racists, it was at a strip night at the back of a local pub. Cliches exist for a reason!! And I'm not ashamed of that, nor should you be.


----------



## Favelado (Feb 19, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Nope. Don't be so lazy you daft sod, have you ever read any of my posts EVER?
> 
> The last time I was alone in a room of middle-aged Northern working class women as posited in the imaginary scenario where I'm telling them they are racists, it was at a strip night at the back of a local pub. Cliches exist for a reason!! And I'm not ashamed of that, nor should you be.



Alone. In a room full of women.

I bet that's a familiar situation for you.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 19, 2019)

Favelado said:


> Alone. In a room full of women.
> 
> I bet that's a familiar situation for you.



I've had it all my life really, it comes from having a sparkling personality and the ability to not be a sexual threat. Try it?


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Nope. Don't be so lazy you daft sod, have you ever read any of my posts EVER?
> 
> The last time I was alone in a room of middle-aged Northern working class women as posited in the imaginary scenario where I'm telling them they are racists, it was at a strip night at the back of a local pub. Cliches exist for a reason!! And I'm not ashamed of that, nor should you be.


Sadly, I've read all your posts on this thread. In disbelief tbh. Car crash.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> Sadly, I've read all your posts on this thread. In disbelief tbh. Car crash.



That's barely a scuffed bumper, you should get out more.


----------



## co-op (Feb 19, 2019)

Wookey said:


> That's barely a scuffed bumper, you should get out more.



Go to bed you're making a prat of yourself.


----------



## pesh (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> Sadly, I've read all your posts on this thread. In disbelief tbh. Car crash.


every fucking thread.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 19, 2019)

Wookey said:


> How about nope? And drop the language, please, I'm not here to babysit.





Wookey said:


> Well, it depends on context, are we standing in a room at the back of the local pub, what are we doing? Why am I there?? Am I the stripper?



Bedtime I think mate.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Bedtime I think mate.



Just you saying that makes me tired, that's like hypnotic suggestion.

You did used to get a better standard of row round here back in the day you know.


----------



## belboid (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Survation poll seems positive about the NCP (not the car parks or the stalinists).


It would be more popular than the libdems!

Mostly by mainly taking votes from them to get to just under 8%


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 19, 2019)

belboid said:


> It would be more popular than the libdems!
> 
> Mostly by mainly taking votes from them to get to just under 8%



Stalinists and car parks are also more popular than the Lib Dem's to be fair.


----------



## Humberto (Feb 19, 2019)

Obviously literate Osbornites don't have to be competent or clean-handed. Those suspected of being Tories in tendency see the 'natural order' as theirs and had the brainwave that the Corbyn led Labour party is not ready to get a landslide.

So these buffoons spy an opportunity to get ready for helping the 'natural governing right' to take what is theirs, simply by aligning themselves with the Tories. Sucking up to the establishment basically. Or palming off enough voters to feed the establishment what is 'theirs'.


----------



## SE25 (Feb 19, 2019)

Very much enjoying the Sensible Centrists ecstasy on twitter


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Wookey said:


> That's barely a scuffed bumper, you should get out more.


You were floundering like a harpooned clown; it was painful to watch. And you kept tying the line around your neck. The worst of it was, it was completely unnecessary.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> tig for short





ska invita said:


> Tings



Funny Tings


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2019)

Presumably Watson has dropped his calls to suspend CLPs that had proposed V(s)oNC in their former, disloyal MPs?
Now that those very CLPs will be charged with making arrangements to select a new PPC.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2019)

Looked it up: "prospective parliamentary candidate"


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Presumably Watson has dropped his calls to suspend CLPs that had proposed V(s)oNC in their former, disloyal MPs?
> Now that those very CLPs will be charged with making arrangements to select a new PPC.


How things change in a day


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> You were floundering like a harpooned clown; it was painful to watch. And you kept tying the line around your neck. The worst of it was, it was completely unnecessary.


Far from it, Wookey wanted to show us what he's made of


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> How things change in a day


Explains why Watson was so energetic in his demands to close down any CLP democracy that might have jeopardised yesterday's reveal.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 19, 2019)

Chuka on radio four now. Roughly what he said

Both main parties are broken. British people deserve better

Three main issues:

1 Stay in EU

2 Moral Dilemma of staying in party which if in power would have national security run by Corbyn

3 Culture of party. Visceral hatred of people with other views/ anti-Semitism

. Beyond Corbyn. About Broken politics. Tory and Labour. Tory party has been UKIPised.

Inviting anyone. Would include Tories.

Broken politics. Existing parties the problem.

People feel politically homeless. Alternative movement to the establishment.


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Far from it, Wookey wanted to show us what he's made of



It certainly gives confidence that the firm stance on anti-Semitism taken by the Independence Group Ltd and its supporters will be extended to cover prejudice towards other groups, apart from the funny-tinged people and the northern working-class women.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Stalinists and car parks are also more popular than the Lib Dem's to be fair.


treading in dogshit more popular than the lib dems


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 19, 2019)

pesh said:


> every fucking thread.


I had never noticed tbh. I actually thought the opposite. It's just wtaf at this point. No fucking shame or insight.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 19, 2019)

Chuka never complained about "visceral" hatred within Lambeth Labour against my Cllr Rachel Heywood. She criticised the New Labour leadership in Lambeth Council and ended up kicked out of the Labour group and eventually losing her Cllr seat.

They broke her.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

TopCat said:


> You sink lower than I thought possible.


yeh he plumbs the depths of human degradation


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

Chuka is a proper rotter.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Chuka is a proper rotter.


he's an utter frutterer


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2019)

TopCat said:


> They have no base At all.



There is definitely room for an openly centrist party, and it does have a base. If all the centrist Tories and centrist Labour MPs piled into a rebadged lib Dems I could imagine that party polling in the high teens.

That summary that Gramsci posted of Chukas key positions does have some support out there amongst voters,  mainly angry Remainers.

But theres a way to go to get to that United Centrist party...7 Shit Tings on their own won't do it, obvs.

For those familiar with Hitchhiker's Guide, I can't help thinking of the B Ark. Theyre the telephone sanitisers of UK politics


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 19, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> Alternative movement to the establishment.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> Chuka on radio four now. Roughly what he said
> 
> Both main parties are broken. British people deserve better
> 
> ...



He’s largely correctly in respect of the symptoms. The question is however who and where is the audience for a 90’s style ‘third way’ remedy. Leaving aside the EU for a moment all of the evidence suggests the space for a new party lies to the left and right of the three established parties in England and Wales. In Scotland the SNP currently occupies part of the vacuum. There is no poltical space for flaccid reheated Macron style lash up as I suspect they’ll find out soon.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> There is definitely room for an openly centrist party, and it does have a base. If all the centrist Tories and centrist Labour MPs piled into a rebadged lib Dems I could imagine that party polling in the high teens.



Bar on the issue of the EU the evidence suggest that the opposite is the case.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Bar on the issue of the EU the evidence suggest that the opposite is the case.


New Dems would get some of the current 'reluctant' labour and Tory vote too. En marche!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> New Dems would get some of the current 'reluctant' labour and Tory vote too. En marche!



Yes, but the main cultural war divides in Britain are moving people out to left and right and not towards the ‘centre’. I don’t doubt that a new party could get enough support to eat into the core vote of both parties - probably Labour more than the Tories - by the way.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2019)

So their registered address is a wetherspoons in Altrincham?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Yes, but the main cultural war divides in Britain are moving people out to left and right and not towards the ‘centre’. I don’t doubt that a new party could get enough support to eat into the core vote of both parties - probably Labour more than the Tories - by the way.


Agree. Lib Dems poll around 11% these days. With a rebrand, some new blood, some centrist money and a playing field dominated by brexit carnage I'd expect they could add another 5 or 6% on. But yeah, long way to go to get there


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Agree. Lib Dems poll around 11% these days. With a rebrand, some new blood, some centrist money and a playing field dominated by brexit carnage I'd expect they could add another 5 or 6% on. But yeah, long way to go to get there


Is Smokeandsteam not saying that there's space for a new party but not this new party?


----------



## Libertad (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> New Dems would get some of the current 'reluctant' labour and Tory vote too. En marche!



Tingdem.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> Is Smokeandsteam not saying that there's space for a new party but not this new party?


it's not a party, it's a ting


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Agree. Lib Dems poll around 11% these days. With a rebrand, some new blood, some centrist money and a playing field dominated by brexit carnage I'd expect they could add another 5 or 6% on. But yeah, long way to go to get there



Given that the Lib Dem’s still exist (allegedly), given that Blair and Powell are plotting their own ‘centre’ party, given half of their forces remain labour MPs for now and given that the 7 heroes can barely string a policy together they agree on I’d suggest they face a very long march to there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Given that the Lib Dem’s still exist (allegedly), given that Blair and Powell are plotting their own ‘centre’ party, given half of their forces remain labour MPs for now and given that the 7 heroes can barely string a policy together they agree on I’d suggest they face a very long march to there.


yeh but they'll all be marching in different directions


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's not a party, it's a ting


A ting today, a party tomorrow...


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> A ting today, a party tomorrow...


nothing but a hangover the day after


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

'In the short term the group has one central task – to convince 29 more disgruntled MPs from any party colour to join their group. That would give them official third party status – overtaking the SNP and access not just to more “Short money” but also a prized guaranteed slot for the group’s leader at every PMQs, replacing the SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford.

Those MPs involved in the new group’s organisation stress that they hope this week will be dominated by several news cycles’ worth of new developments, including an expectation of more defections. If they do not materialise, the group will find it hard to maintain momentum.'



The first step for Labour's exiles: bring 29 more with them


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> So their registered address is a wetherspoons in Altrincham?



Just along from Hale Wine Bar and Dante Italian Kitchen. But can’t see a Weatherspoons.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Just along from Hale Wine Bar and Dante Italian Kitchen. But can’t see a Weatherspoons.
> 
> 
> View attachment 162309


The Mirror says it's the Unicorn.


----------



## Patteran (Feb 19, 2019)

It's here, I think. Pub on the ground floor, two floors of corporate services over it - Oakwood Corporate.


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> So their registered address is a wetherspoons in Altrincham?



... or, rather the offices of Corporate Services company located above upstairs above the pub, along with 909 other companies. They've probably never even set foot in the building, but it doesn't say much about how transparency of the whole project. At least they had the good sense not to set it up offshore in the Caymen Islands


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

eoin_k said:


> ... or, rather the offices of Corporate Services company located above upstairs above the pub, along with 909 other companies. They've probably never even set foot in the building, but it doesn't say much about how transparency of the whole project. At least they had the good sense not to set it up offshore in the Caymen Islands


let's see what other companies they're rubbing shoulders with


----------



## AnnaKarpik (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> 'In the short term the group has one central task – to convince 29 more disgruntled MPs from any party colour to join their group. That would give them official third party status – overtaking the SNP and access not just to more “Short money” but also a prized guaranteed slot for the group’s leader at every PMQs, replacing the SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford.
> 
> Those MPs involved in the new group’s organisation stress that they hope this week will be dominated by several news cycles’ worth of new developments, including an expectation of more defections. If they do not materialise, the group will find it hard to maintain momentum.'
> 
> ...



Wouldn't they have to be an official political party though, rather than a rag-tag bunch of people financed by god knows who?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2019)

eoin_k said:


> ... or, rather the offices of Corporate Services company located above upstairs above the pub, along with 909 other companies. They've probably never even set foot in the building, but it doesn't say much about how transparency of the whole project. At least they had the good sense not to set it up offshore in the Caymen Islands


You know that thing when people explain jokes...


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

AnnaKarpik said:


> Wouldn't they have to be an official political party though, rather than a rag-tag bunch of people financed by god knows who?


Well they keep saying they're not a political party 'yet' so...


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> The Mirror says it's the Unicorn.


This is why I never use sat navs.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Theyre the telephone sanitisers of UK politics



But look what happened when they got rid of all the telphone sanitisers


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2019)

AnnaKarpik said:


> Wouldn't they have to be an official political party though, rather than a rag-tag bunch of people financed by god knows who?



The tories are openly funded by all sorts of shady cunts and it doesn't seem to do them any harm.


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> You know that thing when people explain jokes...



I'm quite happy for people to rip the piss out of them for it, but they can also get called out for assuming that the dodgier aspects of normal business practices are politically acceptable.

This new political project wouldn't involve giving out address details on their website to their constituents where anyone might be able to pop around and exchange views with them.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> This is why I never use sat navs.



Managed to find the posh wine bar and restaurant though


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> So their registered address is a wetherspoons in Altrincham?



I wasted my time checking, before noticing others had. 

Yeah, the 3rd floor is home to Oakwood Corporate Services Limited, so just a registered address for Companies House purposes/public records.

Totally normal, directors have to also supply their home addresses to Companies House, but these are not published.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Managed to find the posh wine bar and restaurant though


  Of course.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2019)

Fair's fair, who here hasn't started a political party in a pub? Sometimes they even last til closing time.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I wasted my time checking, before noticing others had.
> 
> Yeah, the 3rd floor is home to Oakwood Corporate Services Limited, so just a registered address for Companies House purposes/public records.
> 
> Totally normal, directors have to also supply their home addresses to Companies House, but these are not published.


I offer mirth making opps and instead get this!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 19, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Fair's fair, who here hasn't started a political party in a pub? Sometimes they even last til closing time.



The Official Monster Raving Loony Party's HQ is a pub*, just saying like.

* in Lanzarote.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 19, 2019)

Not uncommon. The Natural Law party was actually founded in West London at a former site of the Winchester Club from Minder by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 19, 2019)

How long before one flounces? A week?


----------



## chilango (Feb 19, 2019)

I suspect that while there _is_ an _audience_ for this kinda "new moderate" stuff, there _isn't_ a _base_.

As the Lib Dens have found out to their cost.

The metropolitan liberal is nothing but pragmatic about how they cast their votes.

The egocentric idea of having the intellectual resources to choose, and the reality of having the capital (social, cultural and/or economic) to be in that position in the first place means that this audience will never be "loyal" enough to provide a secure base.

These voters can, and have, flitted between Labour and Lib Dems and Tory and Green and Labour and so on.

No party can count on them. They believe they're "above tribalism".


----------



## mauvais (Feb 19, 2019)

The current state of The Independent Group is rather good. Not their actual website, but hey.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> 'In the short term the group has one central task – to convince 29 more disgruntled MPs from any party colour to join their group. That would give them official third party status – overtaking the SNP and access not just to more “Short money” but also a prized guaranteed slot for the group’s leader at every PMQs, replacing the SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford.
> 
> Those MPs involved in the new group’s organisation stress that they hope this week will be dominated by several news cycles’ worth of new developments, including an expectation of more defections. If they do not materialise, the group will find it hard to maintain momentum.'
> 
> ...


I wonder who the Fearful Five are, who were apparently slated to join but took cold feet?


----------



## AnnaKarpik (Feb 19, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> The tories are openly funded by all sorts of shady cunts and it doesn't seem to do them any harm.



The key word is 'openly'. Political parties have to let us know which cunts are funding them. I imagine it must be the same for independents? <gets google fingers out>


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2019)

AnnaKarpik said:


> The key word is 'openly'. Political parties have to let us know which cunts are funding them. I imagine it must be the same for independents? <gets google fingers out>


Nope - they have specifically set themselves up as Limited company in order not to have to let that sort of info out.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> I suspect that while there _is_ an _audience_ for this kinda "new moderate" stuff, there _isn't_ a _base_.
> 
> As the Library Dens gave found out to their cost.
> 
> ...


Yes, which is exactly why Corbyn has not chucked his lot in with them over brexit (despite plenty _on his side_ wanting to slit their own throats through a total misreading of the scenario which is utterly baffling to anyone who understands labour roots) - they are not to be trusted electorally. And, i suspect, in lots of other ways too.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Managed to find the posh wine bar and restaurant though



To be fair that is a nice looking spoons. Plus curry night is an ideal opportunity for them to express solidarity and explore the exotic culture of the  coloured people


----------



## xenon (Feb 19, 2019)

It will be a load of unsurprising pro remain business types anyway.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> To be fair that is a nice looking spoons. Plus curry night is an ideal opportunity for them to express solidarity and explore the exotic culture of the  coloured funny-tinged people


c4u

you can bet that a.s. will be there holding court


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> I suspect that while there _is_ an _audience_ for this kinda "new moderate" stuff, there _isn't_ a _base_.
> 
> As the Lib Dens have found out to their cost.
> 
> ...



So far, so New Labour, then. Buy the support of the waverers with shiny stuff with names like 'regeneration'; keep a safe, clean distance from the kind of people in places like South Shields whose support you reckon you can count on without actually having to _meet _them or anything. OK, it worked for a bit as an electoral strategy, but it's not one the last few years suggest was a recipe for long-term success...


----------



## Patteran (Feb 19, 2019)

Ivan Lewis currently flirting with this on his twitter. He's been missing for over a year, no activity at all in his constituency since his suspension from the Labour Party over misconduct allegations. Apparently the potential inclusion of Lewis & Woodcock was divisive - & has prompted 'the Independent Grope' sniggers. Lewis running as an independent has genuine potential to split the vote in marginal Bury South & let a Tory in here.


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 19, 2019)

Although Chris wife might give a hint about were the money is coming from


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

Patteran said:


> Ivan Lewis currently flirting with this on his twitter. He's been missing for over a year, no activity at all in his constituency since his suspension from the Labour Party over misconduct allegations. Apparently the potential inclusion of Lewis & Woodcock was divisive - & has prompted 'the Independent Grope' sniggers. Lewis running as an independent has genuine potential to split the vote in marginal Bury South & let a Tory in here.


Had to look him up as couldn't remember which one he was. Allegedly sexually harassed a young woman. Nice.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> Had to look him up as couldn't remember which one he was. Allegedly sexually harassed a young woman. Nice.



Did he? I don't remember this story at all. I'll have a google. Sounds like an excellent addition to spoons curry club gang.


----------



## belboid (Feb 19, 2019)

Patteran said:


> Ivan Lewis currently flirting with this on his twitter. He's been missing for over a year, no activity at all in his constituency since his suspension from the Labour Party over misconduct allegations. Apparently the potential inclusion of Lewis & Woodcock was divisive - & has prompted 'the Independent Grope' sniggers. Lewis running as an independent has genuine potential to split the vote in marginal Bury South & let a Tory in here.


Shuker has his own history as a sex pest, wonder which side he was on?


----------



## mauvais (Feb 19, 2019)

Patteran said:


> Ivan Lewis currently flirting with this on his twitter. He's been missing for over a year, no activity at all in his constituency since his suspension from the Labour Party over misconduct allegations. Apparently the potential inclusion of Lewis & Woodcock was divisive - & has prompted 'the Independent Grope' sniggers. Lewis running as an independent has genuine potential to split the vote in marginal Bury South & let a Tory in here.


Would anyone here really vote for Lewis the [invisible] man?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 19, 2019)

The media is having a field day with speculation.



> Labour and the Conservatives are today braced for a further round of resignations after several MPs quit to form a group of independents.
> 
> Seven Labour defectors and party leader Jeremy Corbyn have been privy to a barrage of criticism, following Monday's momentous 'independent group' announcement.
> 
> ...



I am not convinced, but lets be honest, all bets are off, anything could happen.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Ax^ said:


> Although Chris wife might give a hint about were the money is coming from


Nicola Murphy, founder of Labour Tomorrow?  (An organisation which funds Labour-connected activists and groups who oppose Jeremy Corbyn as party leader).

I tried to look at their website, but it seems lots of other people are doing that too, because it's currently just giving me an error message.  http://www.labourtomorrow.co.uk/author/labourtomorrow/


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> Had to look him up as couldn't remember which one he was. Allegedly sexually harassed a young woman. Nice.


Indeed.  Although strangely, it was Patteran who posted what you quoted, not me.

(I think it's a sign MI5 are watching us).

ETA: I see you've edited, making me look even more paranoid.


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed.  Although strangely, it was Patteran who posted what you quoted, not me.
> 
> (I think it's a sign MI5 are watching us).


----------



## tim (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> New Dems would get some of the current 'reluctant' labour and Tory vote too. En marche!



En panne!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2019)

Patteran said:


> Ivan Lewis currently flirting with this on his twitter. He's been missing for over a year, no activity at all in his constituency since his suspension from the Labour Party over misconduct allegations. Apparently the potential inclusion of Lewis & Woodcock was divisive - & has prompted 'the Independent Grope' sniggers. Lewis running as an independent has genuine potential to split the vote in marginal Bury South & let a Tory in here.



I wish I could skive off work for a year and not get fired.


----------



## Patteran (Feb 19, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Would anyone here really vote for Lewis the [invisible] man?



I suspect so, yes. He will deploy aspects of identity politics in an attempt to create & separate a non-tory jewish vote, & may pick up some votes from the scattered lib dems - plus the whole technocrat/'evidence based policies' vanity angle of TIG might pull some votes from the new middle class village elements. Not enough to win, but enough to stop Labour winning. It's been tight here historically. Of course, this will all be different if the boundary changes happen & we're (re)merged with Midd.


----------



## tim (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed.  Although strangely, it was Patteran who posted what you quoted, not me.
> 
> (I think it's a sign MI5 are watching us).
> 
> ETA: I see you've edited, making me look even more paranoid.




MI5 are currently focused on trying to get Angela Smith to say her lines right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

tim said:


> MI5 are currently focused on trying to get Angela Smith to say her lines right.


they may be gone some time


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Feb 19, 2019)

Not that I think it would happen, but as a hypothetical.  If there were a few "moderate" Conservatives who joined the Independents, to the point where the Tories and DUP no longer held enough seats, what happens? 

Heaven forbid, we might end up with a dysfunctional parliament that can't get anything passed.


----------



## Patteran (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> Had to look him up as couldn't remember which one he was. Allegedly sexually harassed a young woman. Nice.



Labour suspends ex-minister Ivan Lewis over sexual harassment claim

He's gone from the wretched non-apology of 'i'm sorry if this was inappropriate' to 'the so called process was corrupt and politically motivated'. Women involved erased completely.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> I suspect that while there _is_ an _audience_ for this kinda "new moderate" stuff, there _isn't_ a _base_.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

tim said:


> MI5 are currently focused on trying to get Angela Smith to say her lines right.



I'd never heard the phrase "funny tinge" until today.  
It's like your Nan struggling to be PC.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 19, 2019)

Same. Where on earth did that phrase even come from.


----------



## Patteran (Feb 19, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Same. Where on earth did that phrase even come from.



Same. Was she trying to say 'fringe', baulked, & ended up swallowing her words? And then her PR team insisted she just apologise for mis-speaking rather than arguing the specifics?


----------



## elbows (Feb 19, 2019)

I'll take a one way ticket to the funny fringe,
In search of a neo lib money binge,
Some of us were born to whinge,
At the sight of Corbyns scorched earth singe.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 19, 2019)

8ball said:


> I'd never heard the phrase "funny tinge" until today.


I don't think anyone had, including Smith.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Nah. Galloway probably not a great look given the antisemitism scandal. Think Degsy is sufficiently petit bourgeois these days to be considered safe.


Or maybe not:


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't think anyone had, including Smith.



Only way she could have partially mitigated it would have been "I'm sorry, I've no idea what I'm saying - I only had the Media Training half an hour ago...".


----------



## Wilf (Feb 19, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> Oh please let them try to form a party based around Rachel Riley and JK Rowling. If you tried to come up with something more dreadful you would fail.


… and, according to the link, thinking about allowing gropey ex-Labour MPs in.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 19, 2019)

I read they've already been asking bercow about short money. I'm not buying this talk of tory defectors. Not soubry not any of em.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Wilf said:


> … and, according to the link, thinking about allowing gropey ex-Labour MPs in.


gropey gripers


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I read they've already been asking bercow about short money. I'm not buying this talk of tory defectors. Not soubry not any of em.


I mean, who’s looking at that lot and thinking “oh, those are the people I need to fall in with. If only some of that Mike Gapes magic would rub off on me!”?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I mean, who’s looking at that lot and thinking “oh, those are the people I need to fall in with. If only some of that Mike Gapes magic would rub off on me!”?


When people were doing 'funny names for the seven' I was considering 'Sour Gapes'


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 19, 2019)

they recon there will be more, presumably once they've decided if they are a party and a safe space for beasts or not. Ian Austin one presumes, hooooooooey and Fields?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> When people were doing 'funny names for the seven' I was considering 'Sour Gapes'


The Lunatic Tinge?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> they recon there will be more, presumably once they've decided if they are a party and a safe space for beasts or not. Ian Austin one presumes, hooooooooey and Fields?


Can’t see Fields joining: he’s pro Brexit.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 19, 2019)

They don't know what they are, do they? Are they the second referendum party (there's already one of those - it's called the libdems) or are they the anti-anti-semitism Labour party (may contain traces of other forms of racism)?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They don't know what they are, do they? Are they the second referendum party (there's already one of those - it's called the libdems) or are they the anti-anti-semitism Labour party (may contain traces of other forms of racism)?


they're a mess


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The Lunatic Tinge?


beyond the tinge


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They don't know what they are, do they? Are they the second referendum party (there's already one of those - it's called the libdems) or are they the anti-anti-semitism Labour party (may contain *traces* of other forms of racism)?


_Tinges_, surely..?


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 19, 2019)

Funny names seem pretty much redundant.'The Independent Group supported by Gemini A (Ltd)' already sounds like a new age cult involved in a pyramid scheme.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They don't know what they are, do they? Are they the second referendum party (there's already one of those - it's called the libdems) or are they the anti-anti-semitism Labour party (may contain traces of other forms of racism)?



That's precisely their problem. They've either got nothing to say, or can't agree what to say. They are united only by a) remain/2nd ref and b) hatred of Corbyn. Other than that there is nothing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> They are united only by a) remain/2nd ref and b) hatred of Corbyn.


sounds like they could form two only connect teams, and have a player in reserve


----------



## belboid (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> sounds like they could form two only connect teams, and have a player in reserve


they do look like the kind of wankers who would go on OC.  And laugh at all Coren Mitchell's awful jokes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

belboid said:


> they do look like the kind of wankers who would go on OC.  And laugh at all Coren Mitchell's awful jokes.


yeh they'd try to ingratiate themselves with her.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I read they've already been asking bercow about short money. I'm not buying this talk of tory defectors. Not soubry not any of em.


Just reading that Soubry has taken the Tory logo off her twitter profile and has been tweeting about the Tinge Group. Anyone still on Twitter?


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Just reading that Soubry has taken the Tory logo off her twitter profile and has been tweeting about the Tinge Group. Anyone still on Twitter?



You don't need to be on twitter to have a look for yourself:
Anna Soubry MP (@Anna_Soubry) | Twitter


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Just reading that Soubry has taken the Tory logo off her twitter profile and has been tweeting about the Tinge Group. Anyone still on Twitter?



Both things you've read are correct. Gone quiet of late after a prolonged burst of pro Tinge tweeting.


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Both things you've read are correct. Gone quiet of late after a prolonged burst of *pro Tinge tweeting*.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

eoin_k said:


> You don't need to be on twitter to have a look for yourself:
> Anna Soubry MP (@Anna_Soubry) | Twitter


Cheers. Yup, Chuka Umunna retweet as well. It does look like there might be something in this.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 19, 2019)

Patteran said:


> I suspect so, yes. He will deploy aspects of identity politics in an attempt to create & separate a non-tory jewish vote, & may pick up some votes from the scattered lib dems - plus the whole technocrat/'evidence based policies' vanity angle of TIG might pull some votes from the new middle class village elements. Not enough to win, but enough to stop Labour winning. It's been tight here historically. Of course, this will all be different if the boundary changes happen & we're (re)merged with Midd.


The Jewish element might go for him but I think otherwise it's questionable - everyone I've encountered hates him, although I don't know what the feeling is beyond Prestwich. I don't think he has the capability to run a decent independent campaign. As long as Labour find & field a decent candidate then they should be largely unaffected. I have my doubts he'd even run; I suspect that if he joins TIG it'll probably be for self serving purposes, possibly to contest an election somewhere else and/or to pursue & present a post-parliamentary career that isn't quite so shrouded in personal failure (like several other TIGers).


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 19, 2019)

eoin_k said:


> You don't need to be on twitter to have a look for yourself:
> Anna Soubry MP (@Anna_Soubry) | Twitter


Gazing up to the glorious future past a mural of a brave pioneer of the yesteryear. 

Except she's looking back over the brave pioneer into the past. Conservative Communism.


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

mauvais said:


> The Jewish element might go for him but I think otherwise it's questionable - *everyone I've encountered hates him*, although I don't know what the feeling is beyond Prestwich. I don't think he has the capability to run a decent independent campaign. As long as Labour find & field a decent candidate then they should be largely unaffected. I have my doubts he'd even run; I suspect that if he joins TIG it'll probably be for self serving purposes, possibly to contest an election somewhere else and/or to *pursue & present a post-parliamentary career that isn't quite so shrouded in personal failure.*


I'm really loving this thread.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)




----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 162321


 

Full of ex-MPs. Priceless.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> I'm really loving this thread.


Someone once described to me how, on one of the rare occasions he was actually seen & spotted, he was attending a war memorial ceremony. In the middle of it - _possibly_ the minute's silence, but surely that would be too much - he just walked off & away down the road, wearing particularly noisy shoes. Clop clop clop clop clop clop clop.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 19, 2019)

Then they'd be _really _independent.

(e2a - in reference to Pickman's model and Danny's posts)


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Someone once described to me how, on one of the rare occasions he was actually seen & spotted, he was attending a war memorial ceremony. In the middle of it - _possibly_ the minute's silence, but surely that would be too much - he just walked off & away down the road, wearing particularly noisy shoes. Clop clop clop clop clop clop clop.


he was wearing tapdance shoes, off to dance on a grave


----------



## elbows (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> beyond the tinge



Paper tingers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> he was wearing tapdance shoes, off to dance on a grave


----------



## elbows (Feb 19, 2019)

Militinge Tingencies.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

elbows said:


> Militinge Tingencies.


i'm sure corbyn's made contingency plans


----------



## elbows (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm sure corbyn's made contingency plans



Corbyngency planning as at an advanced stage. I believe the forced insertion of wotsits into Tom Watson is part of it.


----------



## gosub (Feb 19, 2019)

Isn't technology marvelous!  Someone at the beeb will have spent time yesterday updating the seating graphic for the House of Commons.   Had they had today's tech in 1912 Capt Smith could have updated the deck chair allocation in real time as people fell overboard


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 19, 2019)

At least, it will be fun to watch the turkeys vote for Christmas next time there is a motion of no confidence in the Government.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Just reading that Soubry has taken the Tory logo off her twitter profile and has been tweeting about the Tinge Group. Anyone still on Twitter?


It would only take five Tories or something like that for HMG-DUP to lose its majority. Not sure how much practical difference that would make, though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Raheem said:


> It would only take five Tories or something like that for HMG-DUP to lose its majority. Not sure how much practical difference that would make, though.


all we need is someone to go postal at tory conference this year

or dup conference for that matter


----------



## chilango (Feb 19, 2019)

Like the LibDems this lot would eagerly and enthusiastically prop up a Tory Govt in return for the fantasy of influence.


----------



## chilango (Feb 19, 2019)

Chuka: I'm Assistant Prime Minister now.
Gove (or whoever): Actually you're an Assistant _to_ the Prime Minister.
Chuka: That's what I said. Assistant Prime Minister.
Gove: *sighs* When's the next election again?


----------



## Libertad (Feb 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> all we need is someone to go postal at tory conference this year
> 
> or dup conference for that matter



That would be business as usual shurely?


----------



## Raheem (Feb 19, 2019)

Raheem said:


> It would only take five Tories or something like that for HMG-DUP to lose its majority. Not sure how much practical difference that would make, though.


And a few minutes later I see this

Minister and four Tory backbenchers poised to join Labour splinter group


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

Libertad said:


> That would be business as usual shurely?


i wish it were, libertad, i only wish it were


----------



## belboid (Feb 19, 2019)

Raheem said:


> And a few minutes later I see this
> 
> Minister and four Tory backbenchers poised to join Labour splinter group


“remarkably sensible people” lol.  Good name for the party tho


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 19, 2019)

Raheem said:


> And a few minutes later I see this
> 
> Minister and four Tory backbenchers poised to join Labour splinter group



There's a lot of speculation about Tories joining the no-marks, I suspect this is why the Tory Party doesn't seem to be gloating over this, well certainly not in the media.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

belboid said:


> “remarkably sensible people” lol.  Good name for the party tho


The HoC is clearly a tinge-rbox.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 19, 2019)

Raheem said:


> And a few minutes later I see this
> 
> Minister and four Tory backbenchers poised to join Labour splinter group



If they were that bothered why didn't they vote for the motion of no confidence in the government?

I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 19, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> If they were that bothered why didn't they vote for the motion of no confidence in the government?
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it.


Reckon they are mainly threatening it for now.


----------



## chilango (Feb 19, 2019)

They won't have any Party machinery, no boots on the ground. No local infrastructure.


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> They won't have any Party machinery, no boots on the ground. No local infrastructure.


But they'll have their huge personal votes so...


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Sue said:


> But they'll have their huge personal votes so...


And I’m sure they’ve all been receiving hundreds of messages of support...


----------



## andysays (Feb 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> They won't have any Party machinery, no boots on the ground. No local infrastructure.


Something Chuka boots something...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> They won't have any Party machinery, no boots on the ground. No local infrastructure.


The Anti-Tingedems will have wookey, king of the north.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> The Anti-Tingedems will have wookey, king of the north.


“All alone in a room full of women”. (Or as we say in English, not alone).


----------



## Lucy Fur (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> “All alone in a room full of women”. (Or as we say in English, not alone).


I guess it's possible to be both in a room full of women, yet still all alone.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

Lucy Fur said:


> I guess it's possible to be both in a room full of women, yet still all alone.


Fair.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

It’s a good thing that Ruth George wouldn’t make any ‘inadvertent’ racist comments


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2019)

[: 9395"]They won't have any Party machinery, no boots on the ground. No local infrastructure.[/QUOTE]
Why I expect them to fold into a rebadged lib dems


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 19, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Or maybe not:





That is fucking awful. Didn't realise he'd said anything so vile.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> They won't have any Party machinery, no boots on the ground. No local infrastructure.


Bet they've snaffled up all their former voter ID for the constituency over the last few weeks, though.(contrary to GDPR)


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> That is fucking awful. Didn't realise he'd said anything so vile.



Hatton has also claimed that those who complainants in rape trials should be publicly named, and that acquittal means they have ‘cried rape’. 

Wealthy capitalist who hates women and Jews. Yay socialism.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Hatton has also claimed that those who complainants in rape trials should be publicly named, and that acquittal means they have ‘cried rape’.
> 
> Wealthy capitalist who hates women and Jews. Yay socialism.



To be fair I don't think even he would claim to have much to do with socialism these days - I don't think he's been politically active at all since the mid 1980's and his degeneration into a property speculator has been pretty depressing. But I had no idea he'd become quite this unsavoury.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> To be fair I don't think even he would claim to have much to do with socialism these days - I don't think he's been politically active at all since the mid 1980's and his degeneration into a property speculator has been pretty depressing. But I had no idea he'd become quite this unsavoury.



Still depressing he's been allowed to rejoin the Labour Party.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Still depressing he's been allowed to rejoin the Labour Party.


Yeh well they're down seven shysters so it's no surprise they've let another one in


----------



## Wilf (Feb 19, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Still depressing he's been allowed to rejoin the Labour Party.


He'd be a better fit for the Blair Labour Party nowadays.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

Wilf said:


> He'd be a better fit for the Blair Labour Party nowadays.



And yet he’s been allowed back now 

Meet the old boss..


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> It’s a good thing that Ruth George wouldn’t make any ‘inadvertent’ racist comments



Perhaps not Labour MP sorry for Israeli breakaway claim


----------



## agricola (Feb 19, 2019)

two sheds said:


> Not the peasant who's crying all the time?



No - I was going to say Gisaku, but they are probably reserving that for Blair


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 19, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Still depressing he's been allowed to rejoin the Labour Party.



As a member. It's worth remembering that you aren't required to prove you don't have any racist or mysogynist views simply to be a member of Labour. And that nobody cares if you have racist or mysogynist views if you are, say, a member of the Lib Dems or the Greens or the Tories. 

I'm not saying Degsy is the sort of person you want joining the Labour Party you understand, just that hundreds of thousands have in last few years and some of them are (statistically speaking) gonna have some dodgy views.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> There is definitely room for an openly centrist party, and it does have a base. If all the centrist Tories and centrist Labour MPs piled into a rebadged lib Dems I could imagine that party polling in the high teens.


Not under FPTP. Even at their peak the LDs where still well behind the big two in seats.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> . It's worth remembering that you aren't required to prove you don't have any racist or mysogynist views simply to be a member of Labour.
> .



Not even for GBH?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Not even for GBH?



As in Grievous Bodily Harm...?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> As in Grievous Bodily Harm...?


G.B.H. (TV series) - Wikipedia


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> As in Grievous Bodily Harm...?





danny la rouge said:


> G.B.H. (TV series) - Wikipedia



The series is alleged to be based on Hatton/militant


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 19, 2019)

Ahhh right, gotcha. I mean, I'm not that fussed about sitcom actors being prevented from joining political parties but each to their own...


----------



## Raheem (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Perhaps not Labour MP sorry for Israeli breakaway claim


Ffs. 

Maybe her and Angela Smith are sending each other dares by text.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

Raheem said:


> Ffs.
> 
> Maybe her and Angela Smith are sending each other dares by text.



Poor Williamson feeling left out 

Chris Williamson retweets account which claims the ‘Talmud promotes paedophilia’


----------



## 8115 (Feb 19, 2019)

I am genuinely surprised at this news, I really didn't think they had the balls, even if they had the support. Wait and see how this one plays out. I thought Corbyn's response today was good.


----------



## 8115 (Feb 19, 2019)

Link here because I couldn't see it discussed in this thread. (Sorry, Guardian).

Corbyn tells exiles: you were elected to carry out Labour manifesto

Also had to  at this. Basically everyone in Labour ought to remember to think really hard before they say anything about Israel.

Labour MP apologises for suggesting Israel funds Independent Group


----------



## two sheds (Feb 19, 2019)

Steve Bell on the seven MPs who have resigned from Labour – cartoon


----------



## andysays (Feb 19, 2019)

8115 said:


> Link here because I couldn't see it discussed in this thread. (Sorry, Guardian).
> 
> Corbyn tells exiles: you were elected to carry out Labour manifesto
> 
> ...



Interesting that the Guardian has chosen to describe them as 'exiles'. Not the first word most would use, I suspect


----------



## 8115 (Feb 19, 2019)

andysays said:


> Interesting that the Guardian has chosen to describe them as 'exiles'. Not the first word most would use, I suspect


Splitters.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 19, 2019)

Cunts (someone had to)


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

I know a few Labour bods and have never heard anything remotely anti-semitic.  You can barely get a few words out of most Tories before they’re going on about Muslims, though.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> G.B.H. (TV series) - Wikipedia



Absolutely brilliant series.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

8ball said:


> I know a few Labour bods and have never heard anything remotely anti-semitic.  You can barely get a few words out of most Tories before they’re going on about Muslims, though.



Great contribution to the discussion


----------



## Geri (Feb 19, 2019)

8ball said:


> I know a few Labour bods and have never heard anything remotely anti-semitic.  You can barely get a few words out of most Tories before they’re going on about Muslims, though.


 
You don't ever go on Facebook or Twitter? It's all over the place!


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

Geri said:


> You don't ever go on Facebook or Twitter? It's all over the place!



Facebook plenty.  Twitter, no (aside from links to funny videos on the bandwidthz thread).


----------



## teqniq (Feb 19, 2019)

I don't see any on Twitter nor on my FB feed but there again i don't go looking for it.

e2a _some_ on my FB feed, along the lines of Rothschilds etc. This largely from people who don't imo seem to realise the association.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2019)

8ball said:


> I know a few Labour bods and have never heard anything remotely anti-semitic.  You can barely get a few words out of most Tories before they’re going on about Muslims, though.



Senior tory Sayeeda Warsi called out her party as institutionally islamophobic at some point in the middle of the months-long barrage of 'Corbyn hates Jews' stories. Press largely ignored it, tory party completely ignored it.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

It’s the Labour Party racists who are the real victims here


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Great contribution to the discussion



Shouldn’t you be working on your treatise on self-awareness?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Senior tory Sayeeda Warsi called out her party as institutionally islamophobic at some point in the middle of the months-long barrage of 'Corbyn hates Jews' stories. Press largely ignored it, tory party completely ignored it.



Odd, that...


----------



## Mr Moose (Feb 19, 2019)

8115 said:


> ..
> 
> Also had to  at this. Basically everyone in Labour ought to remember to think really hard before they say anything about Israel.
> 
> Labour MP apologises for suggesting Israel funds Independent Group



Hells fucking bells. The Labour Party has become that episode of Father Ted. Everything has turned to racism. 

Though to be fair to Ted he was just unlucky where that mark was. Labour supporters will probably get a free square moustache when they join from now on.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

8ball said:


> Shouldn’t you be working on your treatise on self-awareness?



And there’s another one. 

‘I’ve never seen any AS in labour, and the tories are more racist anyway’ repeated yet again


----------



## 8115 (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> It’s the Labour Party racists who are the real victims here


Fwiw I do think Labour probably do have a problem which for one reason or another isn't being addressed well. Perfect storm.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2019)

8ball said:


> Odd, that...



Isn't it. Positively mystifying.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 19, 2019)

8115 said:


> Fwiw I do think Labour probably do have a problem which for one reason or another isn't being addressed well. Perfect storm.



Yeah, I wasn’t meaning to say there *wasn’t* any, but I mentioned I hadn’t seen any and was pointed to the sewers of the internet.  

You can find all manner of things down there.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 19, 2019)

Sorry to dig out a Wookey post from as long ago as page 19 of this thread , but he said this




			
				WilliamofWalworth said:
			
		

> Would you like to explain *exactly* what's "conscientious" and "courageous" about this 7 not fighting by-elections ASAP??
> 
> In which they stand as Independents, now that they've left the Labour Party under whose colours thay were originally elected???






			
				Wookey said:
			
		

> My use of those words was in relation to them resigning the whip and leaving Labour on a clear point of principle, namely that they reject institutionalised racism and anti-Semitism. It was nothing to do with subsequent by-elections, which remain a matter for the individual MP as a point of law, whether you see that as OK or not. (Let's respect the system of democracy we're clinging on to eh?)
> 
> *I find it more interesting that 7 MPs have resigned from a party they informedly describe as racist and anti-Semitic, and you are concerned about their deselection. Strange priority if you ask me. *



Given the utterly dubious nonsense you've posted since that exchange, it really does take the biscuit fory you to imply that I don't care about A/S in the Labour Party ... 

No time for more right now, but you've been posting unbelieveable (or all too believabe!  ) levels of shit in this thread, and the above is one of the milder examples .....


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

Mr Moose said:


> Hells fucking bells. The Labour Party has become that episode of Father Ted. Everything has turned to racism.
> 
> Though to be fair to Ted he was just unlucky where that mark was. Labour supporters will probably get a free square moustache when they join from now on.



Some applicants may even bring their own nazi regalia 

Antisemitic Holocaust denier Chabloz ‘signed up to be official Labour supporter’


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 19, 2019)

I know there's a problem with antisemitism in labour and sections of the left. That similar and worse problems are to be found across the political spectrum especially the right is hardly a surprise and completely irrelevant when we're talking about getting your own house in order.

I also know these clowns couldn't give a flying fuck about antisemitism. If they did they wouldn't dishonestly exploit it as they are doing here.

The only claim I believe about these is that they have a 10 year plan and are prepared to lose their seats. I think this all about undermining, wrecking and discrediting what they see as a left wing leadership.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 19, 2019)

The world is full of cunts. 

Most of which are political and/or religious.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> There is definitely room for an openly centrist party, and it does have a base. If all the centrist Tories and centrist Labour MPs piled into a rebadged lib Dems I could imagine that party polling in the high teens.
> 
> That summary that Gramsci posted of Chukas key positions does have some support out there amongst voters,  mainly angry Remainers.
> 
> ...



I get your point. My personal experience of Lambeth is Im not sure this would work.

In Lambeth "angry Remainer" include a whole swathe of people. As Lambeth was one of the areas in UK with highest Remain support.

The Green party have done well in Lambeth and they are Remainers but opposed to the New Labour Council.

Brexit isn't popular in Lambeth. You can be Green, LD or Labour and be Remain in Lambeth. Even in my Council Ward which counts in the 20% of most deprived wards in the country Brexit isn't popular.

Im Remain but don't support Chuka trying to get the politics of the Third Way going again. And I reckon that would be the same with a lot of my friends.

Here is Chuka vanity vehicle think tank he set up which he gets paid to be on.

https://www.progressive-centre.com/

I heard Tony Blair recently on radio. Chuka think tank is no different from Blairite Third Way.

Chuka has moved so far from his early days that he is to the right of neighbour MP Steve Reed. Ex Blairite leader of Lambeth Council.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 19, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> Absolutely nothing to do with Corbyn or the move back towards a mild social democratic platform.


You say this a lot. It's total bollocks.

Let’s discuss it.

Firstly; let's agree on a definition of _Social Democracy_.

What’s yours?

The idea that JC is a Social Democrat is _utterly fucking ludicrous_. If he was, _*you* _would despise him.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 19, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Can we agree a definition of Social Democracy?


I feel like I already know the answer to this...


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 19, 2019)

Strange that this lot were whinging about not feeling welcome in Labour and it not being a broad church anymore. What people are forgetting is that after Corbyn was elected leader his first cabinet contained a broad range of MPs from across the party. Subsequently several resigned and tried to depose him, and others were hostile from the start. Not like he didn’t try to be inclusive. He was put there following a democratic process involving party members/supporters, but some never accepted that democratic vote. You could almost make a point about them not respecting democratic results...


----------



## agricola (Feb 19, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Some applicants may even bring their own nazi regalia
> 
> Antisemitic Holocaust denier Chabloz ‘signed up to be official Labour supporter’



A disgraceful person, though how Labour were meant to determine that she wasn't a suitable £3 person three and a half years before her conviction is another question.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> Not under FPTP. Even at their peak the LDs where still well behind the big two in seats.


I agree. Like i said could  poll high teens, but ukip polled higher with only one mp resulting.
I'm not saying its a road to power. But hopefully there's enough justification in it so more will follow, and stay there. The more that go the better.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 19, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Cunts (someone had to)


I was just about to.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

agricola said:


> A disgraceful person, though how Labour were meant to determine that she wasn't a suitable £3 person three and a half years before her conviction is another question.



For sure, but I don’t think it was Corbyn’s views on austerity which attracted her


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

Ryan is out


----------



## killer b (Feb 19, 2019)

Ryan who?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 19, 2019)

Joan Ryan.


----------



## tommers (Feb 19, 2019)

Joan Ryan who?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 19, 2019)

Wow another heavy hitter who I’ve never heard of. Does she like coloureds? The spoons curry club?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 19, 2019)

Kin 'ell her wiki got edited really quickly! 

*Joan Ryan*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*
Joan Ryan

MP*



*Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Nationality, Citizenship and Immigration
In office*
5 May 2006 – 29 June 2007
*Prime Minister* Tony Blair
*Sec. of State* John Reid
*Preceded by* Andy Burnham
*Succeeded by* Meg Hillier
*Lord Commissioner of the Treasury
In office*
13 June 2003 – 5 May 2006
*Prime Minister* Tony Blair
*Chancellor* Gordon Brown
*Preceded by* Jim Fitzpatrick
*Succeeded by* Kevin Brennan
*Assistant Government Whip
In office*
29 May 2002 – 13 June 2003
*Prime Minister* Tony Blair
*Chief Whip* Hilary Armstrong
*Member of Parliament
for Enfield North
Incumbent
Assumed office* 
7 May 2015
*Preceded by* Nick de Bois
*Majority* 10,247 (21.1%)
*In office*
1 May 1997 – 12 April 2010
*Preceded by* Tim Eggar
*Succeeded by* Nick de Bois
*Personal details
Born* 8 September 1955 (age 63)
Warrington, Lancashire, England
*Political party* The Independent Group(2019-)
*Spouse(s)* Martin Hegarty
*Alma mater* City of Liverpool College of Higher Education
Polytechnic of the South Bank
*Joan Marie Ryan* (born 8 September 1955) is a British Independent Group politician. She has served as the Member of Parliament(MP) for Enfield North since 2015, having previously represented the constituency from 1997–2010. She was chair of the Labour Friends of Israel (LFI), before her resignation from Labour to join The Independent Group.[1]


----------



## Wilf (Feb 19, 2019)

I'm still stuck at who. And why.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 19, 2019)

Wilf said:


> I'm still stuck at who. And why.



It's all the rage.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 19, 2019)

killer b said:


> Ryan who?



Paul and Barry maybe?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 19, 2019)

To be honest, I love all MPs equally.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 19, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Paul and Barry maybe?



_Private_ was my first thought.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 19, 2019)

Wilf said:


> To be honest, I love all MPs equally.



 Ya just a big softie at heart ain’t ya?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 19, 2019)

Ooh, this one is exciting because she's in the constituency next to the one I grew up in.

I have little excitement in my life


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 19, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> _Private_ was my first thought.



That shows a generational difference doesn’t it?


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 19, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Ooh, this one is exciting because she's in the constituency next to the one I grew up in.
> 
> I have little excitement in my life



We might all have one of these before long!


----------



## tommers (Feb 19, 2019)

I'm going to sit with the independent group.


----------



## pesh (Feb 19, 2019)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 19, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> We might all have one of these before long!


Brace yourselves, is all I'd say; it's quite the ride.


----------



## oryx (Feb 19, 2019)

I think there will be rolling defections to this 'group' over the next few weeks, with the intention of keeping it in the headlines and so discredit Labour.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 19, 2019)

pesh said:


>


----------



## MrSki (Feb 19, 2019)

Has this been done yet?


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 19, 2019)

I am waiting to see Happy Sarah Wollaston stroll in from happytown Devon.


----------



## 8115 (Feb 19, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Ooh, this one is exciting because she's in the constituency next to the one I grew up in.
> 
> I have little excitement in my life


I know, Heidi Allen is near me and I am literally on tenterhooks.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 19, 2019)

Any chance Flint will go?

ETA. Only if cameras there I suppose!


----------



## Wilf (Feb 19, 2019)

oryx said:


> I think there will be rolling defections to this 'group' over the next few weeks, with the intention of keeping it in the headlines and so discredit Labour.


At least it will give us a chance to expand our vocabularies:

Who?
Eh?
Erm…
Notheardofthatone
Pardon?
Shrug
wtf


----------



## agricola (Feb 19, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Any chance Flint will go?
> 
> ETA. Only if cameras there I suppose!



It will be interesting if she does, given her pro-Brexit stance.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 20, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> You say this a lot. It's total bollocks.
> 
> Let’s discuss it.
> 
> ...


Well what are the politics of the current LP if not very mild social democracy?

The 2017 manifesto may have been to the left of those from 1997-2015, but it is miles to the right, economically, of the position of the LP of Attle, Wilson and Callaghan. Moreover, its proposals were also to the right of the Churchill, Eden, Douglas-Home and Heath governments. The measures proposed in 2017 didn't not bring any industries under state (let alone worker) control, there was no proposal to undo the "independence" of the BoE and very little promised re the repeal of anti-trade union laws. Even_ if _(and of course the is a big if) it had been implemented in full it would not have taken us back to 1945 or 1975 (worse luck), it wouldn't even take us back to 1995.

I don't know what politics Corbyn holds in his heart but that's an utterly irrelevant and useless question (how is anybody to prove it one way or the other). The politics of the LP (or any group) should be judged by its actions. The post-2015 LP proposed a GE manifesto that while a move slightly back towards a social democratic platform was really very mild (indeed we know that regarding state involvement in industries it was proposing a lot less than the majority of people in this country are in favour of). At the local government level many Labour councils are still strongly committed to the free marker, and are even engaged in attacking workers (see Birmingham bin strike thread). Moreover, under Corbyn's leadership the NEC of the LP passed a resolution that blocked Labour councils from setting illegal budgets, a move that even New Labour didn't make and certainly something that would have been an anathema to many LP members of the past. If we look at the politics of the new members then again we see (mild) social democracy rather than socialism, hence, why so many members of the LP are in favour of the UK remaining in the EU (in contrast to the traditional position of most of British socialism).

The fact is that while there have certainly been socialists in it the LP has never been a socialist party. Like all parties it's a coalition, in the post-war period of left-liberals, social democrats the old "Labour right" and some socialists, but the last were always a minority. It's a bit of a generalisation but a reasonable one to say that the LP was, traditionally, a social democratic party but that it moved to right and became, certainly by the time of New Labour but you could argue earlier, a (left aligned) liberal party. The moves under Corbyn (and actually there was some, very weak, attempts under Miliband) do not represent the LP turning to socialism, they don't even show the party returning to a strong social democratic platform. They are a small move back towards social democracy but are far away from returning to the LP to its social democratic "base".


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I am waiting to see Happy Sarah Wollaston stroll in from happytown Devon.


TBH I think these pricks have been played by Soubry, Wollaston and co. They might bitch and moan but I'm skeptical they will actually leave the Tories.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

agricola said:


> It will be interesting if she does, given her pro-Brexit stance.



Yes though I think the pressure on her to push for Brexit is purely down to some villages in her constituency having 85% Leave votes.
She is a survivor if nothing else.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 20, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> Chuka on radio four now. Roughly what he said
> 
> Both main parties are broken. British people deserve better
> 
> ...


Note how in all this Chuka doesn’t mention his constituents once. Many of whom are suffering tory austerity (and many also suffering due to the nu Labour council.) Hundreds of his constituents lining up at the west Norwood foodbank every Saturday morning. Local parents nicking stuff from the supermarkets so they can feed their kids. But it’s all about him.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 20, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Note how in all this Chuka doesn’t mention his constituents once. Many of whom are suffering tory austerity (and many also suffering due to the nu Labour council.) Hundreds of his constituents lining up at the west Norwood foodbank every Saturday morning. Local parents nicking stuff from the supermarkets so they can feed their kids. But it’s all about him.


He is a Tory cunt hiding behind the centrist facade. 

Did we ever find out why he bottled running for Labour leadership?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> The idea that JC is a Social Democrat is _utterly fucking ludicrous_. If he was, _*you* _would despise him.


If it helps, I don’t like Corbyn.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Feb 20, 2019)

Social Democracy leaves a nasty taste in the mouth in the UK mostly because of the antics of Owen, Williams, Jenkins and Rogers. I think it has a more respectable and robust tradition in Europe because of people like Brandt and Gonzalez. Roy Jenkins was a figure of fun compared with either of them. The extent to which it is watered-down 'proper socialism' depends on what you mean. A look at Willy Brandt's achievements makes it seem that his Social Democracy was not too shabby:

"Although Brandt is perhaps best known for his achievements in foreign policy, his government oversaw the implementation of a broad range of social reforms, and was known as a "Kanzler der inneren Reformen" ('Chancellor of domestic reform'). According to the historian David Childs, "Brandt was anxious that his government should be a reforming administration and a number of reforms were embarked upon". Within a few years, the education budget rose from 16 billion to 50 billion DM, while one out of every three DM spent by the new government was devoted to welfare purposes. As noted by the journalist and historian Marion Dönhoff,
"People were seized by a completely new feeling about life. A mania for large scale reforms spread like wildfire, affecting schools, universities, the administration, family legislation. In the autumn of 1970 Jürgen Wischnewski of the SPD declared, 'Every week more than three plans for reform come up for decision in cabinet and in the Assembly.'"
According to Helmut Schmidt, Willy Brandt's domestic reform programme had accomplished more than any previous programme for a comparable period. More funds were allocated towards housing, transportation, schools, and communication, while substantial federal benefits were provided for farmers. Various measures were introduced to extend health care coverage, while federal aid to sports organisations increased. A number of liberal social reforms were instituted whilst the welfare state was significantly expanded (with total public spending on social programs nearly doubling between 1969 and 1975), with health, housing, and social welfare legislation bringing about welcome improvements, and by the end of the Brandt Chancellorship West Germany had one of the most advanced systems of welfare in the world.
Substantial increases were made in social security benefits such as injury and sickness benefits, pensions, unemployment benefits, housing allowances, basic subsistence aid allowances, and family allowances and living allowances. In the government's first budget, sickness benefits were increased by 9.3%, pensions for war widows by 25%, pensions for the war wounded by 16%, and retirement pensions by 5%. Numerically, pensions went up by 6.4% (1970), 5.5% (1971), 9.5% (1972), 11.4% (1973), and 11.2% (1974). Adjusted for changes in the annual price index, pensions went up in real terms by 3.1% (1970), 0.3% (1971), 3.9% (1972), 4.4% (1973), and 4.2% (1974). Between 1972 and 1974, the purchasing power of pensioners increased by 19%. In 1970, war pensions were increased by 16%.
In 1970, seagoing pilots became retrospectively insurable, and gained full social security as members of the Non-Manual Workers Insurance Institute. That same year, a special regulation came into force for District Master Chimney Sweeps, making them fully insurable under the Craftsman's Insurance Scheme. An increase was made in tax-free allowances for children, which enabled 1,000,000 families to claim an allowance for the second child, compared to 300,000 families previously. The Second Modification and Supplementation Law (1970) increased the allowance for the third child from DM 50 to DM 60, raised the income-limit for the second child allowance from DM 7,800 to DM 13,200, subsequently increased to DM 15,000 by the third modification law (December 1971), DM 16,800 by the fourth modification law (November 1973), and to DM 18,360 by the fifth modification law (December 1973). A flexible retirement age after 62 years was introduced (1972) for invalids and handicapped persons, and social assistance was extended to those who previously had to be helped by their relatives. From 1971, special subventions were provided to enable young farmers to quit farming “and facilitate their entry into the non-agricultural pension system by means of back payments.” thanks to Wikipedia.

I'd have some of that! It might not be full-on Socialism but it'd be a start.


----------



## Rimbaud (Feb 20, 2019)

Raheem said:


> Reckon they are mainly threatening it for now.



Chuka has been planning this split for years now, I don't think he would have gone ahead with it if he didn't think he could bring some Tories along with him - I think this is how he distinguishes it from the SDP in his head, and he is clearly modelling himself on Macron. If it really is just that lot of nobodies he is taking I don't think he would have taken the risk.

I hope he does take some Tories, as there is always the chance that they could actually end up attracting more Tory voters than Labour voters.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 20, 2019)

Rimbaud said:


> Chuka has been planning this split for years now, I don't think he would have gone ahead with it if he didn't think he could bring some Tories along with him - I think this is how he distinguishes it from the SDP in his head, and he is clearly modelling himself on Macron. If it really is just that lot of nobodies he is taking I don't think he would have taken the risk.
> 
> I hope he does take some Tories, as there is always the chance that they could actually end up attracting more Tory voters than Labour voters.


_En Mushy!_


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Social Democracy leaves a nasty taste in the mouth in the UK mostly because of the antics of Owen, Williams, Jenkins and Rogers. I think it has a more respectable and robust tradition in Europe because of people like Brandt and Gonzalez. Roy Jenkins was a figure of fun compared with either of them. The extent to which it is watered-down 'proper socialism' depends on what you mean. A look at Willy Brandt's achievements makes it seem that his Social Democracy was not too shabby:
> 
> "Although Brandt is perhaps best known for his achievements in foreign policy, his government oversaw the implementation of a broad range of social reforms, and was known as a "Kanzler der inneren Reformen" ('Chancellor of domestic reform'). According to the historian David Childs, "Brandt was anxious that his government should be a reforming administration and a number of reforms were embarked upon". Within a few years, the education budget rose from 16 billion to 50 billion DM, while one out of every three DM spent by the new government was devoted to welfare purposes. As noted by the journalist and historian Marion Dönhoff,
> "People were seized by a completely new feeling about life. A mania for large scale reforms spread like wildfire, affecting schools, universities, the administration, family legislation. In the autumn of 1970 Jürgen Wischnewski of the SPD declared, 'Every week more than three plans for reform come up for decision in cabinet and in the Assembly.'"
> ...


You'd have to move, mind


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Badgers said:


> He is a Tory cunt hiding behind the centrist facade.
> 
> Did we ever find out why he bottled running for Labour leadership?


He has London's finest collection of ayn rand memorabilia


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> You'd have to move, mind



I meant here as well!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I meant here as well!


Not sure iberia becoming part of the UK on the cards


----------



## ska invita (Feb 20, 2019)

Rimbaud said:


> Chuka has been planning this split for years now, I don't think he would have gone ahead with it if he didn't think he could bring some Tories along with him - I think this is how he distinguishes it from the SDP in his head, and he is clearly modelling himself on Macron. If it really is just that lot of nobodies he is taking I don't think he would have taken the risk.
> 
> I hope he does take some Tories, as there is always the chance that they could actually end up attracting more Tory voters than Labour voters.


Robert Peston has some unnamed chatter...basically May's new backstop plan is the same old nothing and therefore


> In Brussels officials talk openly of a 60% probability there will be a no-deal Brexit.
> 
> In London her more Remainy ministers talk openly that before next week’s votes by MPs the PM should pledge to ask the EU for a Brexit delay - or she’ll see perhaps 20 of them resign.
> 
> One said: “she’ll have to choose: moderate ministers or ERG”.



Not conclusive of course, but it wouldn't be the most unlikely thing to happen


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Feb 20, 2019)

Rimbaud said:


> I don't think he would have gone ahead with it if he didn't think he could bring some Tories along with him



There was a Tory MP called Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler who joined the SDP.  He didn't exactly start a trend!

Sue Slipman was another oddity, who made an ideological journey from the Broad Left (in her case CPGB)  to the SDP in about 7 or 8 years.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 20, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> There was a Tory MP called Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler who joined the SDP.  He didn't exactly start a trend!


different times and different fish kettles...this is a grouping of people who think "theres no such thing as left and right anymore"


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

ska invita said:


> different times and different fish kettles...this is a grouping of people who think "theres no such thing as left and right anymore"


Which is why they move in such a crooked fashion


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> There was a Tory MP called Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler who joined the SDP.  He didn't exactly start a trend!


Should have been expressed in limerick form


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Should have been expressed in limerick form



Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler
Made a fundamental howler
He decided to go
in with Shirley and co
la la la la la la la

(Last line a bit rough)


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 20, 2019)

“Funny tinge” (from a Katie Hopkins lookalike) was an inadvertent good move.

It signals “hey! We’re racist too” to the establishment and corporate media, a significant boost to being taken as credible.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 20, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler
> Made a fundamental howler
> He decided to go
> in with Shirley and co
> ...


 
There was a Tory MP
Who joined the SDP
He wished he had friends
To continue the trend
And now I’m going for a wee.


----------



## redcogs (Feb 20, 2019)

Dire


----------



## redcogs (Feb 20, 2019)

id expect better from Urbanites


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

redcogs said:


> id expect better from Urbanites


Don't know why


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 20, 2019)




----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 20, 2019)

Apparently it’s happening from 11am


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 20, 2019)

Career suicide is in vogue I see.  I might go and call my boss a cunt and steal everything that's not nailed down.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 20, 2019)

New Momentum
Be Part Of The Movement


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Be Part Of The Movement


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apparently it’s happening from 11am


i hear they've reserved a table at the 'spoons on whitehall


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler
> Made a fundamental howler
> He decided to go
> in with Shirley and co
> ...


The filthy Tory befouler?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The filthy Tory befouler?


howler


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> howler


We’ve had howler. I’m not keen on the Limerick tradition that merely repeats the first line. That’s lazy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> We’ve had howler. I’m not keen on the Limerick tradition that merely repeats the first line. That’s lazy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> We’ve had howler. I’m not keen on the Limerick tradition that merely repeats the first line. That’s lazy.


scowler


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> We’ve had howler. I’m not keen on the Limerick tradition that merely repeats the first line. That’s lazy.


prowler


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> prowler


Yes, alright. That’s just suggesting rhymes. You need a line that will fit!


----------



## JimW (Feb 20, 2019)

He deserved a sharp kick in the growler.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, alright. That’s just suggesting rhymes. You need a line that will fit!


he found they could use a good scowler

he was nicked as the auld whitehall prowler

when last seen he was an indigent toweller


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 20, 2019)




----------



## xenon (Feb 20, 2019)

ska invita said:


> New Momentum
> Be Part Of The Movement



This lot are more of a motion than a movement...Soon to be flushed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


>





xenon said:


> This lot are more of a motion than a movement...Soon to be flushed.


brilliant minds


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> brilliant minds



Be rolling turds in glitter next.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Be rolling turds in glitter next.


i leave that to cri


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

If only someone had the foresight to see this split coming.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> If only someone had the foresight to see this split coming.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


>




Now that is a Gang of Four worth voting for!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

ska invita said:


> different times and different fish kettles...this is a grouping of people who think "theres no such thing as left and right anymore"



Well in terms of relationship to capital, they're sort of right about that. Of course what they're doing now can only exacerbate that problem but still.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The filthy Tory befouler?



Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler
Not rooted like an oak,
Chanced on moving, sideways, downward, away.
His conscience cleared by political windolene,
Yet smeared by newspaper.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

christopher brocklebank-fowler
was an inveterate prowler
when challenged one night
he ran, taking fright,
and when last seen was an indigent toweller


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> christopher brocklebank-fowler
> was an inveterate prowler
> when challenged one night
> he ran, taking fright,
> and when last seen was an indigent toweller



Shelley?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Shelley?


swinburne


----------



## Sue (Feb 20, 2019)

McGonagall.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apparently it’s happening from 11am



Who will embarrass themselves today I wonder?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apparently it’s happening from 11am


It’s 11 now. Come on you slackers, where’s my entertainment?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s 11 now. Come on you slackers, where’s my entertainment?



I just came to post exactly that!


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2019)

rubbershoes said:


> This thread illustrates perfectly how Urban isn't representative of labour supporters.
> 
> My and many of my friends are of the left but don't like Corbyn or brexit. A lot here would say we're not really of the left. But I stand with Wookey in being disappointed by Corbyn
> 
> I'm now clearing my inbox ready for the abusive PMs



just as a matter of interest, did you end up finding there was nothing 'abusive ' in yr PMs, just as there seemed to be none on here ?

As with soc media, the 'KERAZZY ABUSIVE CORBYNITES INCOMING' stuff, it never seems to actually materialise does it ?

That kind of sign off does it's job though, keeps the whole thing bubbling along nicely, everyone can constantly refer to the 'abuse', often not actually realising it's only the references to the abuse that are keeping the idea of it alive and front and centre.... taken to it's logical extremes, useless MPs can actually  toddle off to form new parties etc, partly propelled by the very same imaginary 'abuse'.

All good stuff.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s 11 now. Come on you slackers, where’s my entertainment?


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Who is this and what happened?



was there an answer to this that we missed ?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

cantsin said:


> was there an answer to this that we missed ?


Some club owner I'd never heard of.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Some club owner I'd never heard of.



thanks, in this thread ? ( will stop being lazy git and look if so )


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

cantsin said:


> thanks, in this thread ? ( will stop being lazy git and look if so )


Yes.  A few posts on from where you were.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 20, 2019)

theres those tory defectors and rebels again, as punctual as godot


----------



## killer b (Feb 20, 2019)

cantsin said:


> thanks, in this thread ? ( will stop being lazy git and look if so )


This from 2013 - it seems a stretch to link it with the labour party though tbf.

The Picket founder Phil Hayes fined for racist rant


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

Sky reporting 3 Tories have resigned.


----------



## pesh (Feb 20, 2019)

And we’re off


----------



## D'wards (Feb 20, 2019)

Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Guardian headline predicting Allen, Soubry and Wollaston will join, though the actual story is less solid:
Three Tory MPs tipped to quit party and join Independent Group


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

> Three Tory MPs left the Conservative Party today to join a newly-formed group of Independent MPs in protest over Brexit.
> 
> Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston all split from the party, leaving Theresa May with an even narrower majority.



Three Tory MPs quit to join new Independent Group


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Guardian headline predicting Allen, Soubry and Wollaston will join, though the actual story is less solid:
> Three Tory MPs tipped to quit party and join Independent Group


More certain hereThree Tory MPs defect to fledgling Independent Group


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Guardian headline predicting Allen, Soubry and Wollaston will join, though the actual story is less solid:
> Three Tory MPs tipped to quit party and join Independent Group


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

so the hateful eight go to ocean's 11


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Three Tory MPs join Labour breakaway group


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

tim said:


> More certain hereThree Tory MPs defect to fledgling Independent Group


What a difference a day 30 seconds makes!


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)




----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 20, 2019)

happy to have called it completely wrong here. This is good, more completely politically opposed egos to fuck each other up


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston


After _Blair's Babes_, somewhere a Sun journalist is writing the headline _Chuka's Chicks._


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Flounce letter


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 20, 2019)

These three seem to have left on a 100% anti-Brexit ticket, no Corbyn, or Antisemitism, bullying claims to fall back on. Surely they can't deny their constituents a 'people's vote' on whether their MP should be an independent or not?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

This councillor has gone from Labour to Tory. 



> Councillor Meadows said “I am delighted that I have been so warmly accepted into the Conservative family, having spent most of my life as a Labour member and councillor.
> 
> “Leaving the Labour Party was not an easy decision for me, but today’s Labour Party is not one I recognise, nor the one I joined many years ago.



Leading Brighton Labour councillor defects to Tories


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> This councillor has gone from Labour to Tory.
> 
> 
> 
> Leading Brighton Labour councillor defects to Tories


You could understand a defector forgetting the libdems existed, but you'd think they'd have had the decency to call in for a brew at the Independent Group on their way to Toryhood. No principles politicians today.


----------



## mojo pixy (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> so the hateful eight go to ocean's 11



It'll be the dirty dozen by teatime


----------



## TopCat (Feb 20, 2019)

The heat on the tories today then.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2019)

wldnt be surprised if Sarah Wollaston did alright down there in Totnes, don't have that lot down as tribal blue blooded Tories tbh


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> You could understand a defector forgetting the libdems existed, but you'd think they'd have had the decency to call in for a brew at the Independent Group on their way to Toryhood. No principles politicians today.



Wednesday's chicken club as well, would be worth stopping by for a nice butterflied breast.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

TopCat said:


> The heat on the tories today then.


until corbyn appears


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2019)

TopCat said:


> The heat on the tories today then.



the next Lab non ent is probably being cued up for the next flounce as we speak


----------



## D'wards (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> You could understand a defector forgetting the libdems existed, but you'd think they'd have had the decency to call in for a brew at the Independent Group on their way to Toryhood. No principles politicians today.


I wonder if the Lib Dems have been contacted? 
The party is pretty fucked, with little hope of a revival, so they could bolster their numbers by joining up with the Independent Party. 

They probably are reasonably similar politically anyway


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> until corbyn appears



Where is he these days?


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 20, 2019)

I can't work out whether this strengthens or weakens May in any way, or makes no difference at all.  They may be a bit more free with their voting now there is no whip but outside of the Brexit votes (which they were happy to vote against the government anyway) will they act any differently?


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> These three seem to have left on a 100% anti-Brexit ticket, no Corbyn, or Antisemitism, bullying claims to fall back on. Surely they can't deny their constituents a 'people's vote' on whether their MP should be an independent or not?



Oh, yes they can!


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 20, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Where is he these days?



He's disappeared along with May.

They're probably in a pub together somewhere watching a live news feed and pissing themselves.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2019)

killer b said:


> This from 2013 - it seems a stretch to link it with the labour party though tbf.
> 
> The Picket founder Phil Hayes fined for racist rant



thanks - and no mention of Lab in there.

similar to the man now in jail for abusing Berger, which Lab MP ( for now ) Peter Kyle MP bought up yday - somehow forgetting that he was an out/ proud right winger.

But then Kyle has form in this area


----------



## treelover (Feb 20, 2019)

Heidi Allen is currently on an anti-poverty tour, with Frank Field*, I wonder how she will fare with people like Chris Leslie, who was one of the founders of NL's welfare reform programme, Angela Smith is not exactly pro social security either.

Not that she ever voted against the welfare reforms


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> After _Blair's Babes_, somewhere a Sun journalist is writing the headline _Chuka's Chicks._



Chuka’s chumps.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> He's disappeared along with May.
> 
> They're probably in a pub together somewhere watching a live news feed and pissing themselves.


it's a bit early in the day for them both to be incontinent. must be in a 'spoons


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

treelover said:


> Heidi Allen is currently on an anti-poverty tour, with Frank Field*, I wonder how she will fare with people like Chris Leslie, who was one of the founders of NL's welfare reform programme, Angela Smith is not exactly pro social security either.
> 
> Not that she ever voted against the welfare reforms



Not yet anyway


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> These three seem to have left on a 100% anti-Brexit ticket, no Corbyn, or Antisemitism, bullying claims to fall back on. Surely they can't deny their constituents a 'people's vote' on whether their MP should be an independent or not?


Not sure if all of the ex-Labour 8 voted remain, but they were at least critical of Corbyn for not promoting a second ref. With 11 now there are enough of them to resign and get by elections on the same day, what they would claim was a mini referendum on holding a nationwide 2nd ref. Of course they won't do this.

Without looking I'm not sure if that could all be done before the end of March, but it certainly could be within the possible/probable article 50 extension. More to the point, if it is too late, it's interesting that Corbyn's anti-Semitism or failure to promote a second ref has only pushed them over the edge at a point when it's too late to do anything real about it (in terms of Brexit at least).


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

Smeeth and Streeting indicating they’re staying. Can’t see Mann leaving


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

I know the polls have become a bit of a joke, perhaps with the exception Survation, which has tended to be the most accurate.

Survation rushed out a poll on Monday, which now puts the Tories 4 points ahead, compared to their last poll on 30/1/19, which had Labour ahead by 1%.

Sky data has now done a poll, showing support for TIG at 10%.

 
Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Chuka’s chumps.


----------



## treelover (Feb 20, 2019)

In terms of the large amount of M.P's who are 'staying in to fight', what is it they oppose, Corbyn/Team Corbyn, his policies, the unpleasant culture now in the LP(some of which i have witnessed in Momentum) the A/S, are they against the manifesto? they don't seem to be, nostalgia for 1997, etc, it is really hard to tell.


----------



## treelover (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know the polls have become a bit of a joke, perhaps with the exception Survation, which has tended to be the most accurate.
> 
> Survation rushed out a poll on Monday, which now puts the Tories 4 points ahead, compared to their last poll on 30/1/19, which had Labour ahead by 1%.
> 
> ...



26% was around what Labour received after the SDP split, it seems their bedrock support number.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

treelover said:


> 26% was around what Labour received after the SDP split, it seems their bedrock support number.



TBF, we have no idea how accurate Sky Data is likely to be, this appears to be their first GE poll, so there's no history to compare this with, although their methods have allowed them to join the British Polling Council.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 20, 2019)

Well they are firmly anti Brexit. Will remainers vote for them?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Well they are firmly anti Brexit. Will remainers vote for them?


they won't get a chance to until after brexit day


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

treelover said:


> In terms of the large amount of M.P's who are 'staying in to fight', what is it they oppose, Corbyn/Team Corbyn, his policies, the unpleasant culture now in the LP(some of which i have witnessed in Momentum) the A/S, are they against the manifesto? they don't seem to be, nostalgia for 1997, etc, it is really hard to tell.


I remember at the time of the SDP, a good percentage of the Labour defectors were facing deselection. 3 (?) of this lot have had voncs for a kick off. 

The point about the culture is an interesting one. Antisemitism wasn't in the mix back in the SDP period, so things are different now. But if anything the flak received by the right/potential defectors was more brutal back then. Words like traitor were entry level insults.  

Maybe that sounds like some kind of 'snowflakes, insults were better in my day... poltical correctness gone mad' point. It isn't really. All I'm suggesting is if you strip out the antisemitism and internet trolling - pretty big things to strip out, I admit - the actual _political_ criticism of the defectors has been quite restrained.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> they won't get a chance to until after brexit day



I reckon they might. Can't see how there isn't an extension of A50.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBF, we have no idea how accurate Sky Data is likely to be, this appears to be their first GE poll, so there's no history to compare this with, although their methods have allowed them to join the British Polling Council.


Unless they've launched something new, Sky only poll their customers.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know the polls have become a bit of a joke, perhaps with the exception Survation, which has tended to be the most accurate.
> 
> Survation rushed out a poll on Monday, which now puts the Tories 4 points ahead, compared to their last poll on 30/1/19, which had Labour ahead by 1%.
> 
> ...



Presumably that 10% includes people outside of any contistuencies that the TIGgers will be standing in?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know the polls have become a bit of a joke, perhaps with the exception Survation, which has tended to be the most accurate.
> 
> Survation rushed out a poll on Monday, which now puts the Tories 4 points ahead, compared to their last poll on 30/1/19, which had Labour ahead by 1%.
> 
> ...


Add the TING vote to the lib Dems....


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> I can't work out whether this strengthens or weakens May in any way, or makes no difference at all.  They may be a bit more free with their voting now there is no whip but outside of the Brexit votes (which they were happy to vote against the government anyway) will they act any differently?



It strengthens the ERG.


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> He's disappeared along with May.
> 
> They're probably in a pub together somewhere watching a live news feed and pissing themselves.




No, down on the allotment ruminating about it being "a funny old World".


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

Raheem said:


> Unless they've launched something new, Sky only poll their customers.



True, but they weight the data, the same as other polling companies.



> *How do we make it nationally representative?*
> 
> As with all pollsters, we select the sample and weight the data to be in line with the demographic profile of the UK - so that we have the right proportion of people of different genders, age groups, regions, social grades, etc.
> 
> ...



How does Sky Data carry out its research?


----------



## Raheem (Feb 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> It strengthens the ERG.


No it doesn't. May has been focused all along on her political need not to allow the ERG to spit its dummy. Now they have unexpected competition and a very small number of Tory remainers threatening to defect can suddenly have an unforeseen stranglehold on gov policy.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> It strengthens the ERG.


Yep, less people for her to appease on the 'left' of her party. 

In the bigger picture of Brexit, the '11' will be voting in unison with the libdems presumably?  If she does try and move to the erg though, she still has the problem of getting a majority. So basically, nothing changed, just a slightly different configuration of the same problem.


----------



## gosub (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know the polls have become a bit of a joke, perhaps with the exception Survation, which has tended to be the most accurate.
> 
> Survation rushed out a poll on Monday, which now puts the Tories 4 points ahead, compared to their last poll on 30/1/19, which had Labour ahead by 1%.
> 
> ...



LibDems must be spitting tin taks


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

Times/YouGov poll


----------



## killer b (Feb 20, 2019)

treelover said:


> In terms of the large amount of M.P's who are 'staying in to fight', what is it they oppose, Corbyn/Team Corbyn, his policies, the unpleasant culture now in the LP(some of which i have witnessed in Momentum) the A/S, are they against the manifesto? they don't seem to be, nostalgia for 1997, etc, it is really hard to tell.


What do you know of the culture in the labour party previously? You're mistaken if you think the factional struggle was any less poisonous. Its just that these cunts used to be on top.


----------



## Funky_monks (Feb 20, 2019)

Isn't there a question of whether May can now actually form a government?
This "independent group" would have to agree to work with her, and would that mean shooting themselves in the foot?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> I reckon they might. Can't see how there isn't an extension of A50.


Can't see how there is. The options are may's shoddy deal, no deal, no brexit. Not ooh let's rerun the last six months again


----------



## killer b (Feb 20, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> Isn't there a question of whether May can now actually form a government?
> This "independent group" would have to agree to work with her, and would that mean shooting themselves in the foot?


Your maths are out


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

Many chickens returning to roost


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I know the polls have become a bit of a joke, perhaps with the exception Survation, which has tended to be the most accurate.
> 
> Survation rushed out a poll on Monday, which now puts the Tories 4 points ahead, compared to their last poll on 30/1/19, which had Labour ahead by 1%.
> 
> ...



Surely they can't stand candidates in a GE without turning themselves into a legitimate party, and so national polling is pretty meaningless?

And if their brand of political nothingness has any 'heartlands' they'll be largely the same places the lib dems have already lost to the tories, which the tories are sure to keep if an aleady dimished centrist vote is split.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 20, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> Isn't there a question of whether May can now actually form a government?
> This "independent group" would have to agree to work with her, and would that mean shooting themselves in the foot?



but on the other hand, wouldn't a vote of no confidence that led to a general election also mean shooting themselves in the foot?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 20, 2019)

How am I reading these polls? IG haven't announced a list of policies or intentions to stand anywhere yet so I assume while it shows that support for a third party, it can't tell me much else


SpookyFrank said:


> and so national polling is pretty meaningless?


I just assumed I'm missing something, because I usually am


Puddy_Tat said:


> but on the other hand, wouldn't a vote of no confidence that led to a general election also mean shooting themselves in the foot?


they would be faced with a hobsons.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> Isn't there a question of whether May can now actually form a government?
> This "independent group" would have to agree to work with her, and would that mean shooting themselves in the foot?


Cons 327 + DUP 10 = 327. Still, just, a majority of the 650 seats.  Also, that doesn't mean all the rest are active opposition votes (speaker, SF + there's also 1 vacancy).


----------



## tommers (Feb 20, 2019)

Well.  I'm surprised.

I liked the letter, believing that the Tories were going to invest in public services


----------



## Casual Observer (Feb 20, 2019)

I'm hearing that David Steel has once again told LibDems to go back to their constituencies and prepare for government.


----------



## Sue (Feb 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Surely they can't stand candidates in a GE without turning themselves into a legitimate party, and so national polling is pretty meaningless?
> 
> And if their brand of political nothingness has any 'heartlands' they'll be largely the same places the lib dems have already lost to the tories, which the tories are sure to keep if an aleady dimished centrist vote is split.


They could stand as independents in a general (or whatever other) election without a party as long as they can rustle up their 500 quid or whatever and enough signatures. 

Obviously if they want anything other than 'independent' against their name, they need a registered political party.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Surely they can't stand candidates in a GE without turning themselves into a legitimate party, and so national polling is pretty meaningless?
> 
> And if their brand of political nothingness has any 'heartlands' they'll be largely the same places the lib dems have already lost to the tories, which the tories are sure to keep if an aleady dimished centrist vote is split.



Nothing to stop them standing as independents, and doing deals with the LibDems on a seat by seat basis. They only need to stand in a few marginal seats to throw a spanner in the works.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Nothing to stop them standing as independents, and doing deals with the LibDems on a seat by seat basis. They only need to stand in a few marginal seats to throw a spanner in the works.



More like throwing a spanner onto a big pile of spanners at this point tbh.

And the bigger this group gets the more problematic the concept of an 'independent group' becomes.


----------



## tommers (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Cons 327 + DUP 10 = 327. Still, just, a majority of the 650 seats.  Also, that doesn't mean all the rest are active opposition votes (speaker, SF + there's also 1 vacancy).



Doesn't take many more though does it?

And then they're the new DUP.  And Chuka makes Jeremy refer to him as the Duke of New York and A number 1.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Cons 327 + DUP 10 = 327. Still, just, a majority of the 650 seats.  Also, that doesn't mean all the rest are active opposition votes (speaker, SF + there's also 1 vacancy).


… I think the opposition would need 7 more Tory > TIG defections to give the opposition a genuine majority, at least until after the Paul Flynn by election.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

tommers said:


> Doesn't take many more though does it?
> 
> And then they're the new DUP.  And Chuka makes Jeremy refer to him as the Duke of New York and A number 1.


See ^


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Cons 327 + DUP 10 = 327. Still, just, a majority of the 650 seats.  Also, that doesn't mean all the rest are active opposition votes (speaker, SF + there's also 1 vacancy).



Still, every jumped up tory backbencher with an axe to grind now pretty much has May over a barrell, and we know she's quite happy to grovel and bribe to keep her own head above water.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> See ^


… or:
Current State of the Parties


----------



## Ted Striker (Feb 20, 2019)

What motivation is there for Lib Dems to stay with the party that (will forever be known as the clowns that) fucked Students, and join the new sexy Indy Group?


----------



## Sue (Feb 20, 2019)

Ted Striker said:


> What motivation is there for Lib Dems to stay with the party that (will forever be known as the clowns that) fucked Students, and join the *new sexy Indy Group*?



Steady on!


----------



## Funky_monks (Feb 20, 2019)

Ted Striker said:


> What motivation is there for Lib Dems to stay with the party that (will forever be known as the clowns that) fucked Students, and join the new sexy Indy Group?



Do they want to though?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Surely they can't stand candidates in a GE without turning themselves into a legitimate party, and so national polling is pretty meaningless?


it's notional national polling


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

What’s the back story re Anne Meadows?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> … I think the opposition would need 7 more Tory > TIG defections to give the opposition a genuine majority, at least until after the Paul Flynn by election.


Is there a chance that a Tory who was supposed to defect won't, because doing so would break the numbers so the Tories could no longer govern?

Would the Tories be able to limp on as a minority government?


----------



## Spod (Feb 20, 2019)

They are putting their beliefs before their careers IMO. Easy option is to drop out from the front line and sit on the back benches in the hope that one day the parties will return to more centrist positions. The Tories are so right and Labour so left at the moment I saw this coming. I think ideologically they are aligned with Lib Dem but they are still too damaged from the previous Tory coalition.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Ted Striker said:


> What motivation is there for Lib Dems to stay with the party that (will forever be known as the clowns that) fucked Students, and join the new sexy Indy Group?


TIG Avengers, the ones both Marvel and DC rejected.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's notional national polling



We don't live in a notional nation though.

I don't really have a point I'm just amused by the cadence of that.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Spod said:


> They are putting their beliefs before their careers IMO. .


 Half of them were facing voncs and/or deselection.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Is there a chance that a Tory who was supposed to defect won't, because doing so would break the numbers so the Tories could no longer govern?
> 
> Would the Tories be able to limp on as a minority government?


The irony is, amid the Brexit omnishambles, you forget there's everyday parliamentary business to be conducted/got through.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> We don't live in a notional nation though.
> 
> I don't really have a point I'm just amused by the cadence of that.


we do live in a notional nation. all nations are notional nations.


----------



## Spod (Feb 20, 2019)

yes but why? As far as I can see its for speaking with their convictions rather than toeing the party line. 



Wilf said:


> Half of them were facing voncs and/or deselection.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> The irony is, amid the Brexit omnishambles, you forget there's everyday parliamentary business to be conducted/got through.


the indies - an everyday story of parliamentary folk


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> … I think the opposition would need 7 more Tory > TIG defections to give the opposition a genuine majority, at least until after the Paul Flynn by election.


I make it 5 more Tory to Tinge defections. My counting gives the government plus confidence and supply a majority of 8. To overturn the majority, one more than half of the majority need to join the opposition.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

Spod said:


> They are putting their beliefs before their careers IMO.



Umunna doesn't have any beliefs. He flaps about like a three-ply shithouse door in a hurricane.


----------



## andysays (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I make it 5 more Tory to Tinge defections. My counting gives the government plus confidence and supply a majority of 8. To overturn the majority, one more than half of the majority need to join the opposition.


And crucially,  they need not just to leave the Tories but actually be prepared to vote against them in a VONC.

One does not necessarily mean the other.


----------



## Mr Moose (Feb 20, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> I can't work out whether this strengthens or weakens May in any way, or makes no difference at all.  They may be a bit more free with their voting now there is no whip but outside of the Brexit votes (which they were happy to vote against the government anyway) will they act any differently?



A few more and the Govt has no majority even with the DUP. So yes it’s weakening.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I make it 5 more Tory to Tinge defections. My counting gives the government plus confidence and supply a majority of 8. To overturn the majority, one more than half of the majority need to join the opposition.



I'm counting it -

Govt -
Cons 317 + DUP 10 = 327

Oppo -
Labour 247
Scottish National Party 35
Independent 16
Liberal Democrat 11
Plaid Cymru 4
Green Party 1​= 314

Not counting - speaker, SF, 1 vacant (Flynn) = 9

= 650
From: Current State of the Parties


----------



## chilango (Feb 20, 2019)

It'd be hilarious if some Lib Dems MPs defected to this group.

Not only because then we'd have a rump SDP, a rump Liberal Party and a rump Lib Dems all claiming the mantle of true heirs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

chilango said:


> It'd be hilarious if some Lib Dems MPs defected to this group.
> 
> Not only because then we'd have a rump SDP, a rump Liberal Party and a rump Lib Dems all claiming the mantle of true heirs.


good to call them rumps as they're all arses


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2019)

cantsin said:


> the next Lab non ent is probably being cued up for the next flounce as we speak



Yep, it's kind of obvious that there'll be a drip-drip-drip of pre-organised flounces by non-entities.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> I'm counting it -
> 
> Govt -
> Cons 317 + DUP 10 = 327
> ...


You’ve forgotten to take 3 from the Tory count. There’s 314 Tories.

Out of interest, are there even 5 half-likely Tory defectors? That would be fun.


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 20, 2019)

chilango said:


> It'd be hilarious if some Lib Dems MPs defected to this group.
> 
> Not only because then we'd have a rump SDP, a rump Liberal Party and a rump Lib Dems all claiming the mantle of true heirs.



It'll be even more hilarious when this bunch of _independents_ all end up voting with the government on the Brexit deal.


----------



## andysays (Feb 20, 2019)

They currently have the same number of MPs as the LibDems. Any further additions mean they overtake them.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Chuka’s chumps.



Chuka's Charlatans.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> You’ve forgotten to take 3 from the Tory count. There’s 314 Tories.
> 
> Out of interest, are there even 5 half-likely Tory defectors? That would be fun.


Ah, I as assuming they'd already been removed. Says 16 independents. Not sure.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Ah, I as assuming they'd already been removed. Says 16 independents. Not sure.


There’s now 19 independents. 8 assorted and 11 Tinge.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 20, 2019)

Ted Striker said:


> What motivation is there for Lib Dems to stay with the party that (will forever be known as the clowns that) fucked Students, and join the new sexy Indy Group?


This is why I think there'll be a Lib Dem rebadging - supposedly there have been some back room talks between Vince and a range of leavers
This is from last summer
Vince Cable: I’ll build a new home for Labour rebels


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I make it 5 more Tory to Tinge defections. My counting gives the government plus confidence and supply a majority of 8. To overturn the majority, one more than half of the majority need to join the opposition.



But the limp dems have said they won't vote with labour on a future VONC (story from last month here)


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Ah, I as assuming they'd already been removed. Says 16 independents. Not sure.


Yes, wiki says you (danny la rouge )  are right:
Parliament of the United Kingdom - Wikipedia


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> I'm hearing that David Steel has once again told LibDems to go back to their constituencies and prepare for government.



Him saying that, and Kinnock's "Allllrigght!!!" revivalist preacher act are two of the most amusing acts of political hubris in the last quarter of the 20th century.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> But the limp dems have said they won't vote with labour on a future VONC (story from last month here)


Yes, I was just going for government plus C&S versus non government. But you’re quite right, it doesn’t equal a VONC defeat for the govt. (We don’t even know how the Tinge would vote).


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> (We don’t even know how the Tinge would vote).


they would go whichever way would shaft auld corby


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2019)

Sue said:


> They could stand as independents in a general (or whatever other) election without a party as long as they can rustle up their 500 quid or whatever and enough signatures.
> 
> Obviously if they want anything other than 'independent' against their name, they need a registered political party.



I hear that "Norsefire" is free at the moment, if they do register as a party. Britain Prevails!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> More like throwing a spanner onto a big pile of spanners at this point tbh.



Apt, given they're a bunch of spanners.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> they would go whichever way would shaft auld corby



and then blame corbyn for calling the confidence vote


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> and then blame corbyn for calling the confidence vote


very much so


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> I hear that "Norsefire" is free at the moment, if they do register as a party. Britain Prevails!


arsefire maybe?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> I hear that "Norsefire" is free at the moment, if they do register as a party. Britain Prevails!


If I was a betting man, which I am, I’d risk a flutter on “The Progressive Party”.


----------



## CRI (Feb 20, 2019)




----------



## manji (Feb 20, 2019)

Likkud Party would be the honest one.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

manji said:


> Likkud Party would be the honest one.


Yikes!


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

manji said:


> Likkud Party would be the honest one.


Em. What?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

You realise that’s out of order, right manji ?


----------



## Sue (Feb 20, 2019)

Think the thread is just about to take (another) swerve into wtf.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

manji said:


> Likkud Party would be the honest one.



Where is all this antisemitism eh?


----------



## chilango (Feb 20, 2019)

I think we need an explanation pronto manji


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

Sue said:


> Think the thread is just about to take (another) swerve into wtf.


It’s the thread that keeps on giving. When it started I held out little hope for it. But _now_.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

chilango said:


> I think we need an explanation pronto manji


Sadly, I think we can guess the explanation only too easily.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

CRI said:


> View attachment 162431


it's the crap you're feeding the bird


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's the crap you're feeding the bird



My gran fed her African Grey with all sorts of not entirely appropriate food: snickers, bacon, boiled eggs, chicken korma. Lived a long life


----------



## D'wards (Feb 20, 2019)

So will they field candidates in an upcoming general election in all seats, do folk think?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> My gran fed her African Grey with all sorts of not entirely appropriate food: snickers, bacon, boiled eggs, chicken korma. Lived a long life


yeh CRI forces the poor thing to eat health food


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

D'wards said:


> So will they field candidates in an upcoming general election in all seats, do folk think?


First of all will be the Flynn (Newport) by election. Presumably won't be able to stand a candidate as they are not a party yet, but will have to decide whether to support the libdems. Labour had a massive majority in 2017 and the Libdems were nowhere, so a not very auspicious starting point for the Tiggers.

Edit: Newport also voted Leave - so just about the worst place for playing Tig.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

The three ex-Tories now holding a press conference.


----------



## manji (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> You realise that’s out of order, right manji ?


All but one of the Labour deserters were Freinds Of Israel


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> First of all will be the Flynn (Newport) by election. Presumably won't be able to stand a candidate as they are not a party yet, but will have to decide whether to support the libdems. Labour had a massive majority in 2017 and the Libdems were nowhere, so a not very auspicious starting point for the Tiggers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

manji said:


> All but one of the Labour deserters were Freinds Of Israel


friends. i before e except after c.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

Heidi up first - "You've heard of the magnificent seven, and the lone ranger last night, I guess that makes us the three amigos.'


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 162437


----------



## Sue (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> The three ex-Tories now holding a press conference.


Can you watch it so we don't have to and report back on any tingey moments? Thanks!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Heidi up first - "You've heard of the magnificent seven, and the lone ranger last night, I guess that makes us the three amigos.'


the three stooges


----------



## Argonia (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> The three ex-Tories now holding a press conference.



It's here: MPs who quit Tory party for breakaway group set out reasons – Politics live


----------



## Lucy Fur (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> friends. i before e except after c.


perhaps manji 's typo was the 'r'


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)




----------



## chilango (Feb 20, 2019)

manji said:


> All but one of the Labour deserters were Freinds Of Israel



Not good enough.

Even a quick Google suggests if you're going that route then it's the Israeli Labor Party that you should be looking at in terms of links.

So, why bring this up anyway?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

chilango said:


> Not good enough.
> 
> Even a quick Google suggests if you're going that route then it's the Israeli Labor Party that you should be looking at in terms of links.
> 
> So, why bring this up anyway?


Exactly. And in an environment where there's been an element of guilt by association in the accusations of antisemitism against Corbyn, this is doing exactly the same on the other side of the argument.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Strangely it was the Labour government’s refusal to condemn Israel for their actions in Lebanon that caused a major fall out with me and Ed Miliband. And why since then I have had very little to do with them.
2004/5.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 20, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> My gran fed her African Grey with all sorts of not entirely appropriate food: snickers, bacon, boiled eggs, chicken korma. Lived a long life



amd how did the parrot do?


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 20, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> amd how did the parrot do?




Genuine apologies to MadeInBedlams nan and her parrot but I couldn't resist....


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 20, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> If I was a betting man, which I am, I’d risk a flutter on “The Progressive Party”.



That wouldn't surprise me. None of them appear to have any sense of irony.

Or of humour, frankly.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Anybody with any illusions about the '3' being one nation tories, should have a look on here, particularly the Welfare and Benefits bit:
Voting record - Anna Soubry MP, Broxtowe - TheyWorkForYou
Voting record - Sarah Wollaston MP, Totnes - TheyWorkForYou

Even Heidi 'in tears for the poor' Allen, with limited info as she was only elected in 2015, voted _against_ the poor.
Voting record - Heidi Allen MP, South Cambridgeshire - TheyWorkForYou


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> View attachment 162440
> 
> Genuine apologies to MadeInBedlams nan and her parrot but I couldn't resist....


To be fair, all threads over 40 pages ultimately include a parrot-nan-apology.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Feb 20, 2019)

Well, isn't all this fun? 

lol


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Oh, apparently Gary Linneker is a Tigger fan (some twitter thing). In terms of earlier Match of the Day presenters, Des Lynam is considering his position, while David Icke...


----------



## Barking_Mad (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Voting record - Sarah Wollaston MP, Totnes - TheyWorkForYou



But, but.............



> “This is about more than Brexit. I joined the party after spending 24 years in the NHS as a frontline doctor wanting to make a difference,” she says. She joined a tolerant, modern open-hearted Conservative party, which has since disappeared, says Wollaston


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

Big bust-up between wiki editors as to if polls including TIG should be included in the main list of polls, so they have come out with this idea...

 Screen-grabbed, because it could disappear again.  

Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia


----------



## Raheem (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Voting record - Sarah Wollaston MP, Totnes - TheyWorkForYou


Confusingly, also seems to have voted anti-EU 18 times and pro-EU never.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Barking_Mad said:


> But, but.............


She's been all over the place on Brexit too. Started the referendum off as a leaver then shifted, partly as a result of the lies on Brexit and nhs funding.
Sarah Wollaston - Wikipedia

Edit:beaten to it.

Seems to be a bit thick.

That wiki page does mention she voted against the rollout of Universal Credit.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> I remember at the time of the SDP, a good percentage of the Labour defectors were facing deselection. 3 (?) of this lot have had voncs for a kick off.
> 
> The point about the culture is an interesting one. Antisemitism wasn't in the mix back in the SDP period, so things are different now. But if anything the flak received by the right/potential defectors was more brutal back then. Words like traitor were entry level insults.
> 
> Maybe that sounds like some kind of 'snowflakes, insults were better in my day... poltical correctness gone mad' point. It isn't really. All I'm suggesting is if you strip out the antisemitism and internet trolling - pretty big things to strip out, I admit - the actual _political_ criticism of the defectors has been quite restrained.



Fucking non-existent more like. This from McDonnell was atrocious. We'll listen to critics, vows McDonnell

You're supposed to be preparing for govt, not "listening" to a bunch of Blairite flouncers *who are now officially working with Tories. *


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Big bust-up between wiki editors as to if polls including TIG should be included in the main list of polls, so they have come out with this idea...
> 
> View attachment 162445 Screen-grabbed, because it could disappear again.
> 
> Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia



Pretty much what you'd expect then and what everyone on here has been saying for years - not enough to win any seats but enough to make a big dent in Labour's chances. I'm sure they're very pleased.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Can't see how there is. The options are may's shoddy deal, no deal, no brexit. Not ooh let's rerun the last six months again



I mean, no one wants to rerun the last six months again. Except MP's that don't want May's deal or no deal and don't want to just come out and say let's cancel Brexit.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 20, 2019)

Funding blow for breakaway MP group

For all of chukka's 3d chess playing ability party formed between elections not eligible for short money state cash for doing party stuff handed out per number of elected mps so the lib Dems get £73.58 a week


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

likesfish said:


> Funding blow for breakaway MP group
> 
> For all of chukka's 3d chess playing ability party formed between elections not eligible for short money state cash for doing party stuff handed out per number of elected mps so the lib Dems get £73.58 a week


they'll be looking for a trough to put their snouts in


----------



## ska invita (Feb 20, 2019)

likesfish said:


> Funding blow for breakaway MP group
> 
> For all of chukka's 3d chess playing ability party formed between elections not eligible for short money state cash for doing party stuff handed out per number of elected mps so the lib Dems get £73.58 a week


Theyre not going to be short of money, thats for sure. Fucking over Corbyn is well paid work


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Labour shuts down campaign tools after Independent Group MP accesses data - LabourList


----------



## N_igma (Feb 20, 2019)

I’ve been eating way too much popcorn watching this one unfold.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

likesfish said:


> Funding blow for breakaway MP group
> 
> For all of chukka's 3d chess playing ability party formed between elections not eligible for short money state cash for doing party stuff handed out per number of elected mps so the lib Dems get £73.58 a week





Although the LibDems get a bit more than that...


> Labour is due to receive £7.9m in short money in 2018/19, the SNP more than £800,000, and the Liberal Democrats £645,000.


...that's almost £12.5k pw.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 20, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> happy to have called it completely wrong here. This is good, more completely politically opposed egos to fuck each other up


Likewise didn't think these pricks would have the guts. 

TBH I think this huge mistake for Umunna and co. There are some Labour voters that aren't happy with Corbyn or the recent politics of the party but many of those will baulk at voting for a party that works with the Tories.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 20, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Labour shuts down campaign tools after Independent Group MP accesses data - LabourList



Presumably all the funny tinge brigade will have been required to sign GDPR policies forbidding them from doing this. If not then that's a massive fuck up on the part of Labour.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

"Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer run off with our data, we'll keep the red flag flying here"


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 20, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> TBH I think this huge mistake for Umunna and co. There are some Labour voters that aren't happy with Corbyn or the recent politics of the party but many of those will baulk at voting for a party that works with the Tories.



This. But it's yet another reminder of how removed from reality they are. They don't know people whose lives make them despise the Tories. It's all a good laugh amongst friends if you're not wrecked by it, eh.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

It would be quite funny if one of them got done for breach of the GDPR given it's EU legislation. 

GDPR comes up a lot in our union branch committee these days. No one sees the funny side when I say "LEAVE MEANS LEAVE" though.


----------



## tommers (Feb 20, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Labour shuts down campaign tools after Independent Group MP accesses data - LabourList





idiots.


----------



## tommers (Feb 20, 2019)

second day: "let's illegally access personal data!  Nobody will find out!"

just bizarre.


----------



## mojo pixy (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> "Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer run off with our data, we'll keep the red flag flying here, *see ya later!*"



final version


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Labour shuts down campaign tools after Independent Group MP accesses data - LabourList


What a shower


----------



## Lorca (Feb 20, 2019)

(clenches fist, stares forcefully into the evening sky) 'soon...the whole world will know my name...joan ryan.'


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Arise, ye remainiacs from your slumber,
Arise, ye prisoners of Tinge.
For reason in revolt now thunders,
and so begins the age of cunt!


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> What a shower



A leaky one at that


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 20, 2019)

have we had this yet?


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 20, 2019)

That's not aged well.

It surprises me because I always had him down as a man of conviction, reliable and trustworthy.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Anyone running a book on yet another snap GE?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Fucking non-existent more like. This from McDonnell was atrocious. We'll listen to critics, vows McDonnell
> 
> You're supposed to be preparing for govt, not "listening" to a bunch of Blairite flouncers *who are now officially working with Tories. *



This is a lot better from Corbyn to be fair. 

Corbyn Accuses Eight Labour Quitters Of Backing Tory Austerity And Privatisation


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Anyone running a book on yet another snap GE?



Not in March. April/May seems quite likely.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Anyone running a book on yet another snap GE?



I was thinking the same.

MPs fear May could exploit Labour split to call early election


----------



## Tankus (Feb 20, 2019)

anyone else getting "_quiet bat people _" vibes ... or is it just me?


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> This is a lot better from Corbyn to be fair.
> 
> Corbyn Accuses Eight Labour Quitters Of Backing Tory Austerity And Privatisation



I would have admired Corbyn more if he used the ‘Are you sponge or a stone’ line from Withnail and I.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Circumstances at the moment are, to say the least, _unusual_. However I don't see May going for a GE at the moment. She can't risk being the person who fucks up a snap GE _TWICE_. Also, doesn't fit with her plucky getting Brexit through line. However, another dozen join the Tiggers and she loses the next Brexit vote.. fuck knows.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Tankus said:


> anyone else getting "bat people "vibes or is it just me



Perfect!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Circumstances at the moment are, to say the least, _unusual_. However I don't see May going for a GE at the moment. She can't risk being the person who fucks up a snap GE _TWICE_. Also, doesn't fit with her plucky getting Brexit through line. However, another dozen join the Tiggers and she loses the next Brexit vote.. fuck knows.



What's she got left to lose though really? To be fair, she's not got loads of options.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I would have admired Corbyn more if he used the ‘Are you sponge or a stone’ line from Withnail and I.


 
Because somebody is going to get fucked!


----------



## Beermoth (Feb 20, 2019)

N_igma said:


> I’ve been eating way too much popcorn watching this one unfold.



Same. A bit of respite from endless BREXIT BREXIT BREXIT stuff.


----------



## rekil (Feb 20, 2019)

Bastani in the vinegars over Hatton while Galloway is begging to be let back in and acting as party spokesman on Sky.   



Spoiler


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Has John Pienaar stolen Mr Potato Head’s moustache?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Kaka Tim could this thread be retitled the independent group or seven go mad in westminster or something?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

copliker said:


> ... while Galloway is begging to be let back in and acting as party spokesman on Sky.



And, what a great job he's making of his application...

Backlash at Galloway's 'Nazi' remark while discussing anti-Semitism


----------



## teqniq (Feb 20, 2019)

Heh. The kiss of death if true?

Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group


----------



## moochedit (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Kaka Tim could this thread be retitled the independent group or seven go mad in westminster or something?



"Why the independent group are shit" ?


----------



## moochedit (Feb 20, 2019)

teqniq said:


> Heh. The kiss of death if true?
> 
> Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group



He is deluded enough to think that helps them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

moochedit said:


> "Why the independent group are shit" ?


What stupid shit have the independent group done today?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

moochedit said:


> He is deluded enough to think that helps them.


Chuka reported on the phone to the great man trying to dissuade him


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

"this group ain't big enough for our two egos", umunna told blair


----------



## moochedit (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> What stupid shit have the independent group done today?


^
Yeah that one.


----------



## Funky_monks (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> And, what a great job he's making of his application...
> 
> Backlash at Galloway's 'Nazi' remark while discussing anti-Semitism



I saw that - although to be fair, when questioned, he made the sky bloke look quite silly.


----------



## rekil (Feb 20, 2019)

agricola said:


> He's probably watching _Seven Samurai_ right now to work out which character he could plausibly be; my money is on Rikichi.


Chuka putting his foot down before the inevitable 180.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

sleaterkinney said:


> Is Derek Hatton going to get Berger's seat?.



A suspension it turns out Derek Hatton suspended by the Labour party already


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> A suspension it turns out Derek Hatton suspended by the Labour party already



Nice to see some consistency from him.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> A suspension it turns out Derek Hatton suspended by the Labour party already



I was coming to post, what a fucking circus.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2019)

copliker said:


> Bastani in the vinegars over Hatton while Galloway is begging to be let back in and acting as party spokesman on Sky.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Degsy gone again already it seems, and suspect ( hope ) that's the end of the short lived 'bring back GG' collective crankdream


----------



## 8115 (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Kaka Tim could this thread be retitled the independent group or seven go mad in westminster or something?


10.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

8115 said:


> 10.



11

Do try to keep up.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

I seem to have lost the plot, I thought it was Labour's plan to beat the Tories in an election, not beat them in a national fuckwits competition.


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Beermoth said:


> Same. A bit of respite from endless BREXIT BREXIT BREXIT stuff.


Looking forward the the moderate independent MPs getting into a punch up with moderate Independent MP Frank Field.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I was coming to post, what a fucking circus.


If they had a theme tune it would be


----------



## agricola (Feb 20, 2019)

copliker said:


> Chuka putting his foot down before the inevitable 180.
> 
> View attachment 162468



meanwhile everyone else:


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

What they need now is a DUP defecator


----------



## Argonia (Feb 20, 2019)

tim said:


> What they need now is a DUP defecator



Defector?


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Defector?


No!

A coprophile with links to the Free Presbyterians.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Feb 20, 2019)

tim said:


> What they need now is a DUP defecator



I would make a comment about Libdems and Mark Oaten here but I can’t be bothered.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

tim said:


> What they need now is a DUP defecator


The dup is riddled with defecators


----------



## 8115 (Feb 20, 2019)

.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Kaka Tim could this thread be retitled the independent group or seven go mad in westminster or something?



do i need to get mod to do this?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 20, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> do i need to get mod to do this?



Don't even think about, the title is fine, if it's changed, it'll probably need updating every few days.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 20, 2019)

I mean Galloway is always highly entertaining but nobody would trust him to do anything important but watching him rip into chuckka would be highly


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 20, 2019)

For a few precious hours we had a new set of octocunts then three Tory shits went and spoilt it. I don’t even know what eleven is. One more would be the dodecashites.


----------



## moochedit (Feb 20, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> do i need to get mod to do this?



I think as thread starter you can just edit the first post and change it?

I may be wrong though. If not then i'm sure a mod can help.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> do i need to get mod to do this?


Yeh just report the op and ask for a new title of your choice


----------



## ska invita (Feb 20, 2019)

I'm curious to see, come some form of brexit finale, what splits occur in the Tories....yes labour are ripe for chunks to fall off, but how can brexit not be a car crash for the Tories?


----------



## Argonia (Feb 20, 2019)

There could be a Tory stampede to the tiggers if there is a no deal Brexit


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Any predictions on who becomes number 12? Presumably a Labourite. Pity Hazel Blears isn't still in Parliament (words, to be honest, I never expected to type), she'd have been my top pick.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 20, 2019)

One of the points of a new party would be so that they could say ‘it wasn’t us, it was the others’ when we’re all boiling rats in our own piss to get by a few months from now.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> One of the points of a new party would be so that they could say ‘it wasn’t us, it was the others’ when we’re all boiling rats in our own piss to get by a few months from now.


_Chlorinated_ rats.


----------



## Argonia (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Any predictions on who becomes number 12? Presumably a Labourite. Pity Hazel Blears isn't still in Parliament (words, to be honest, I never expected to type), she'd have been my top pick.



yvette cooper, David lammy, Stephen kinnock


----------



## Voley (Feb 20, 2019)

Argonia said:


> yvette cooper, David lammy, Stephen kinnock


That would break with tradition. I've heard of them.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 20, 2019)

The way things have been going for her, I think May will be next.


----------



## belboid (Feb 20, 2019)

Argonia said:


> yvette cooper, David lammy, Stephen kinnock


No chance of the first two, I'd be very surprised if it was Kinnock.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

two sheds said:


> The way things have been going for her, I think May will be next.


What a question that would be for the next journo to get an interview with her.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

belboid said:


> No chance of the first two, I'd be very surprised if it was Kinnock.


Perhaps someone who has had had or is facing a local vonc (though I've no idea who that would be).


----------



## ChrisD (Feb 20, 2019)

Argonia said:


> yvette cooper, David lammy, Stephen kinnock


Alison McGovern,  Ben Bradshaw ?


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 20, 2019)

Spod said:


> They are putting their beliefs before their careers IMO.
> .


For the Labour ones - not really. Half had already been no confidenced by their CLP, and Labour are well on the way to introducing new rules to make deselection easier for CLPs. Plus, none of them had any chance of getting a front bench role under any leadership candidate who the membership would support.
They didn't HAVE political careers left!


----------



## brogdale (Feb 20, 2019)

Please let it be my MP Tom Brake...now that would be interesting!


----------



## tommers (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh just report the op and ask for a new title of your choice


Chuka Umunna's Time Is Up


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

tommers said:


> Chuka Umunna's Time Is Up


Bring me the head of chuka umunna


----------



## belboid (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Bring me the head of chuka umunna


Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave


----------



## gawkrodger (Feb 20, 2019)

Ian Austin from Dudley North has been making noises about leaving


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 20, 2019)

Has anyone posted this yet?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> Has anyone posted this yet?
> 
> View attachment 162481


Oh very good


----------



## moochedit (Feb 20, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> Ian Austin from Dudley North has been making noises about leaving



Yeah. I wouldn't want to stay in Dudley either.


----------



## Poi E (Feb 20, 2019)

Pleeeease let a Scottish labour mp defecate.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Any predictions on who becomes number 12? Presumably a Labourite. Pity Hazel Blears isn't still in Parliament (words, to be honest, I never expected to type), she'd have been my top pick.



I've got a feeling it won't be one more to make an even 12 - just cos I know I won't get to call them the DIrty Dozen somehow.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Yeah. I wouldn't want to stay in Dudley either.



That’s what Peter Cook would have said.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> I've got a feeling it won't be one more to make an even 12 - just cos I know I won't get to call them the DIrty Dozen somehow.


Currently at legs 11. 13 will be _unlucky for some_, but if they make it up to 33, that's _fish, chips and peas,_ in honour of their spiritual leader, Peter Mandelson.


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 20, 2019)

Spod said:


> yes but why? As far as I can see its for speaking with their convictions rather than toeing the party line.


Not really, it was for being such fanatically disloyal, treacherous, backstabbing wankers that they were seen by their CLPs as representing a threat to Labour's future chances of winning elections.
Labour generally give backbench MPs a lot of latitude in sticking by their own line. IME you have to do an awful lot to get vonc


----------



## 19sixtysix (Feb 20, 2019)

belboid said:


> I'd be very surprised if it was Kinnock.



Family tradition shafting the left of the party.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 20, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Note how in all this Chuka doesn’t mention his constituents once. Many of whom are suffering tory austerity (and many also suffering due to the nu Labour council.) Hundreds of his constituents lining up at the west Norwood foodbank every Saturday morning. Local parents nicking stuff from the supermarkets so they can feed their kids. But it’s all about him.



As you and me are in Lambeth/ Brixton area we see this. Like my Coldharbour Ward. New Labour Council big up there pet projects like Pop Brixton as "progressive".

IMO Chuka wants return to the so called "centre" politics of Tony Blair. Updated version.

It winds me up he is using anti-Semitism as reason to break away from Labour nationally when he hasn't said anything about institutional racism in Lambeth Council ( under Labour control for years) by BAME workers for the Council. Nor has he said anything critical about the New Labour Councils "regeneration" schemes for Councils estates. AKA social cleansing.

Looking at Guardian website today commentators are very sympathetic. As someone who lives in Lambeth and has to deal with there New Labour policies on the ground , latest being trying to protect an adventure playground, its maddening that Chuka gets serious attention in the middle class liberal intelligentsia.

His use of anti-Semitism and supposedly being sympathetic with MPs given hard time if they don't agree with leadership is annoying to say the least.

Ex Cllr Rachel Heywood has been destroyed on a personal level by the right on New Labour scum in Lambeth Labour party. He never defended her.

I loath Chuka. He is middle class New Labour tosser.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Currently at legs 11. 13 will be _unlucky for some_, but if they make it up to 33, that's _fish, chips and peas,_ in honour of their spiritual leader, Peter Mandelson.



I love the term petty bourgeois Mandelism that appears in the CWI Split thread. So very apt for these centreist shenanigans.


----------



## Plumdaff (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> I love the term petty bourgeois Mandelism that appears in the CWI Split thread. So very apt for these centreist shenanigans.



Petit bourgeois Mandelsonism


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> That’s what Peter Cook would have said.


Took me a second. Have a scooby snack.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Oh god. Watching resignation speeches and Heidi Allen banging on about "normal people with values". Vomit inducing. 

These people think they're fucking _normal. _


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> Petit bourgeois Mandelsonism



It would have grown exponentially.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

To be serious for a moment, my great fear is the growing populism unleased by the Tiggers. There could easily be an Anna Soubry personality cult.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Chuka features in the 2019 team photo, but there's just an empty space in 2020. Oh, hang on...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> To be serious for a moment, my great fear is the growing populism unleased by the Tiggers. There could easily be an Anna Soubry personality cult.



She'd need to have a personality first.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Chuka features in the 2019 team photo, but there's just an empty space in 2020. Oh, hang on...



#StalinistSoubry


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

"Soubry: A Study in Tyranny"


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

"Soubriquets in One Country"


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

How long before we can start a Chuka Umunna’s Time is Up thread?


----------



## binka (Feb 20, 2019)

No Jeremys Club


----------



## killer b (Feb 20, 2019)

Soubry spends every afternoon in the pub doesn't she? She's always hammered by the time the evening media rounds are up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2019)

killer b said:


> Soubry spends every afternoon in the pub doesn't she? She's always hammered by the time the evening media rounds are up.


That's nothing, farage is always hammered by dinnertime

And Churchill by elevenses


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> And Churchill by elevenses



No wonder he was shite at painting as well as peacetime politics!


----------



## tim (Feb 20, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> I loath Chuka. He is middle class New Labour tosser.



Upper middle class tosser!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> "Soubriquets in One Country"



Union of Soviet Soubryite Republics


----------



## moochedit (Feb 20, 2019)

killer b said:


> Soubry spends every afternoon in the pub doesn't she? She's always hammered by the time the evening media rounds are up.



Don't all mp's do that? As soon as they've done their speech they all fuck off to the commens bars until voting time.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

SoubryChukaFaragePhobicFuckmeThey’reAtrocious!


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 20, 2019)

tim said:


> Upper middle class tosser!



Typical rich kid gets guilty conscience so joins Labour Party to help the poor and unwashed. Meets a few desperate, destitute people and thinks I’ve had enough of this.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 20, 2019)

killer b said:


> Soubry spends every afternoon in the pub doesn't she? She's always hammered by the time the evening media rounds are up.



you know what? - id never clocked that before - but you right - the way she behaves half the time - and her complexion - definitely suggest "pisshead".


----------



## moochedit (Feb 20, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> How long before we can start a Chuka Umunna’s Time is Up thread?



As soon as the next general election is called.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> you know what? - id never clocked that before - but you right - the way she behaves half the time - and her complexion - definitely suggest "pisshead".


That sounds about right, though if you put 'Anna Soubry Alcoholic' into google, all the substantive stories lead back to Nadine Dorries saying she was pissed when she went out of the commons to address an anti-Brexit rally.


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 20, 2019)

Argonia said:


> yvette cooper, David lammy, Stephen kinnock


Nope.They definitely wouldn't


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 20, 2019)

19sixtysix said:


> Family tradition shafting the left of the party.


Sure,but always from within


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 20, 2019)

Argonia said:


> yvette cooper, David lammy, Stephen kinnock



Doubt it. Not Stella Creasy either (I think she considers herself more a Co-op member anyway these days).


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 20, 2019)

Margaret Hodge has been something of a shit-stirrer of late, is anyone giving odds?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 20, 2019)

manji said:


> All but one of the Labour deserters were Freinds Of Israel


So what? Why does that make them Likud?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 20, 2019)

.


----------



## Humberto (Feb 21, 2019)

Owen Smith would be logical to some extent maybe.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 21, 2019)

A very politically-aware mate of mine scoffed at me at work when I said I thought there was a chance of Soubry joining this new little group.

I was still surprised when it actually happened.  Had similar odd feelings about Brexit and Trump that he scoffed at (for better reasons than my inarticulate hunch), so I have the hat trick now.

For what it’s worth, I’ve been saying for a couple of years now that we won’t be leaving the EU...

Just thought I’d get that on record - my run is bound to end sometime.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 21, 2019)

Sounds like Ian Austin next - there'll be few more popular departures than this one amongst members, genuine wrong un .


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 162438



You know you're a cunt when even Tim "wanker" Farron can land a hard one on you!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

tommers said:


> idiots.



It'll get blamed on some overzealous staff member, who'll get the boot, even though they were probably doing it at the request of the MP.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 21, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> You know you're a cunt when even Tim "wanker" Farron can land a hard one on you!



Well, MEP rather than MP and all that.
Some might say Farron has left an open goal for Farage...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

Argonia said:


> yvette cooper, David lammy, Stephen kinnock



John Mann, Liz Kendall, Ian Austin, Owen Smith.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Currently at legs 11. 13 will be _unlucky for some_, but if they make it up to 33, that's _fish, chips and peas,_ in honour of their spiritual leader, Peter Mandelson.



Fish, chips and guacamole, surely?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> Petit bourgeois Mandelsonism



Given his mushy peas/guacamole gaffe, surely that should be petit pois bourgeois Mandelsonism?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

tim said:


> Upper middle class tosser!



His grandad - who gave Kim Philby a clean slate - weren't much cop, either.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 21, 2019)

blair might be joining according to this 

Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group

kiss of death. "new politics" my big fat fucking hair bollock.


----------



## Humberto (Feb 21, 2019)

None of them seem to have an original idea and the courage to back it up.


----------



## Humberto (Feb 21, 2019)

As long as cunts make money out of politics mammon will be your breakfast lunch and tea.

Put that on the back of a packet of Frosties.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 21, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> blair might be joining according to this
> 
> Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group
> 
> kiss of death. "new politics" my big fat fucking hair bollock.



Yeah, but that article also tips Heidi Allen to be next to follow the three Tories who eloped today.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Feb 21, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Doubt it. Not Stella Creasy either (I think she considers herself more a Co-op member anyway these days).



I would be very surprised if she did, or Alison McGovern as mentioned above - they are both Labour to the core. Never say never in these strange times but the likes of the and Wes Streeting, or Caroline Flint leaving would surprise me.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 21, 2019)

I cannot see Flint igniting any further rebellion.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

The new group is more than anything an anti Brexit group, so flint isn't going to be joining. Same for mann. Kendall has made her peace with Brexit too IIRC. The only reason Austin hasn't jumped yet is because of this - on the balance i think he might still, but it'll involve some significant contortions to make himself fit...


----------



## andysays (Feb 21, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> I've got a feeling it won't be one more to make an even 12 - just cos I know I won't get to call them the DIrty Dozen somehow.


Is there anyone called Baker who might jump? If they brought a friend, we could have a baker's dozen...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 21, 2019)

Would Ken Clarke ever do it? He has to be looking at retirement soon I’d have throught.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 21, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> blair might be joining according to this
> 
> Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group
> 
> kiss of death. "new politics" my big fat fucking hair bollock.



Never heard of the source but other stories I’ve read suggest he’s working on a centrist project of his own. The field for a Macron ‘management of collapsing neoliberal for the rich’ organisation is a crowded one.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> The new group is more than anything an anti Brexit group, so flint isn't going to be joining. Same for mann. Kendall has made her peace with Brexit too IIRC. The only reason Austin hasn't jumped yet is because of this - on the balance i think he might still, but it'll involve some significant contortions to make himself fit...



Flint is a good example of a policy Labour should have dropped. She was parachuted into Don Valley by the Blair organisation and replaced the labour members who had always worked towards becoming the local MP.
The Labour majority when a NUM member, Martin Redmond  stood was over 14000. In 2017 Flint had just over 5000. She also promoted staying in Europe, but my old village, Denaby Main returned a 85% Leave vote.
She will do or say anything to keep her snout in the Westminster trough. So no, much as locals would like to see her gone, she will hang on.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 21, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Flint is a good example of a policy Labour should have learned. She was parachuted into Don Valley by the Blair organisation and replaced the labour members who had always worked towards becoming the local MP.
> The Labour majority when a NUM member, Martin Redmond  stood was over 14000. In 2017 Flint had just over 5000. She also promoted staying in Europe, but my old village, Denaby Main returned a 85% Leave vote.
> She will do or say anything to keep her snout in the Westminster trough. So no, much as locals would like to see her gone, she will hang on.



Flint is a labour leave supporter mate. I’d also suggest politically she more from the union RW labour tradition rather than Blairite.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 21, 2019)

Humberto said:


> Owen Smith would be logical to some extent maybe.


woah woah woah...easy now...you don't want to bring out your big guns so soon. Owen Smith will be holding back to deliver the sucker punch.

As to Blair joining, he isnt an MP, nor can he go out in public without being accosted....I guess he could stand as an independent in the safe independent seat of the private security cordon in which he permanently lives.

though seriously, once you start looking at the known knowns, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, the list of_ potential _leavers is a long one


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Feb 21, 2019)

I suppose that if there is any theoretical underpinning to this or to what Blair might come up with it would be 

Radical centrism - Wikipedia

but all I see is flouncing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

ska invita said:


> woah woah woah...easy now...you don't want to bring out your big guns so soon. Owen Smith will be holding back to deliver the sucker punch.
> 
> As to Blair joining, he isnt an MP, nor can he go out in public without being accosted....I guess he could stand as an independent in the safe independent seat of the private security cordon in which he permanently lives.
> 
> though seriously, once you start looking at the known knowns, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, the list of_ potential _leavers is a long one


Of all the things you may associate with Owen Smith, punches sucker or otherwise are not among them


----------



## moochedit (Feb 21, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Would Ken Clarke ever do it? He has to be looking at retirement soon I’d have throught.



I think i read somewhere that he said he wasn't standing next election. So i guess he might think he has nothing to lose. Although it might bugger up his chances of a seat in the lords which might stop him.

Found this:

Belfast Telegraph: Ken Clarke: Party risks losing moderates unless it changes direction.
Ken Clarke: Party risks losing moderates unless it changes direction - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Edit - he decided to run in 2017 despite previously saying he would not run in 2020.

Ken Clarke to stand to be an MP again


----------



## two sheds (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Of all the things you may associate with Owen Smith, punches sucker or otherwise are not among them



Oh I don't know


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Flint is a labour leave supporter mate.


She's converted to the cause since the referendum vote - because her seat is heavily leave leaning - rather than being a long-term leave supporter though.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 21, 2019)

Did anyone catch who the frothing anti-corbyn Labour MP was on radio 4 this morning (7.30ish)? I wasn't familiar with his voice.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

two sheds said:


> Oh I don't know


punches _from him_ i mean


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

sunnysidedown said:


> Did anyone catch who the frothing anti-corbyn Labour MP was on radio 4 this morning (7.30ish)? I wasn't familiar with his voice.


you're not really narrowing it down


----------



## ska invita (Feb 21, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I suppose that if there is any theoretical underpinning to this or to what Blair might come up with it would be
> Radical centrism - Wikipedia
> but all I see is flouncing.


I dont think its just flouncing. I believe them when they say they feel like their views arent represented by political parties now...i believe them because thats how many of us have felt our whole lives.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2019)

ska invita said:


> I dont think its just flouncing. I believe them when they say they feel like their views arent represented by political parties now...i believe them because thats how many of us have felt our whole lives.


By confirming her continuing belief in the need for and efficacy of 'austerity', Soubry proved quite the opposite; there's at least 2 main-stream parties holding that view


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 21, 2019)

Someone was telling me that at the last Labour conference, Luciana Berger had to have a police bodyguard (this person would be no friend of the Blairites, by the way). Is this for real? And would it be fair to cite it (as my contact did) as evidence that Corbyn isn't doing enough to fight anti-semitism?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Someone was telling me that at the last Labour conference, Luciana Berger had to have a police bodyguard (this person would be no friend of the Blairites, by the way). Is this for real? And would it be fair to cite it (as my contact did) as evidence that Corbyn isn't doing enough to fight anti-semitism?


i wouldn't take it that way, and suggest it could only be taken that way if other jewish mps also had to have police protection. if there was a genuine swell of anti-semitism in the party then - i suggest - people like the nefandous jeremy newmark would not even have made it onto the ballot paper.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 21, 2019)

brogdale said:


> By confirming her continuing belief in the need for and efficacy of 'austerity', Soubry proved quite the opposite; there's at least 2 main-stream parties holding that view


Yeah of course it's blinkered beyond belief, but I don't think it's total play acting.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 21, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Flint is a labour leave supporter mate. I’d also suggest politically she more from the union RW labour tradition rather than Blairite.


Funny she wasn’t before the referendum!
And why as a student did she throw eggs at Dennis Skinner?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Someone was telling me that at the last Labour conference, Luciana Berger had to have a police bodyguard (this person would be no friend of the Blairites, by the way). Is this for real? And would it be fair to cite it (as my contact did) as evidence that Corbyn isn't doing enough to fight anti-semitism?


The press certainly managed to use a photograph of Berger arriving at conference which also included a (uniformed) police officer. Those attending the conference as delegates suggested that neither Berger nor any other Jewish MPs required or were given 'bodyguards' or close protection.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Yeah of course it's blinkered beyond belief, but I don't think it's total play acting.


Quite; these vapid Macron wannaabes are still psychopaths serious about their own chances of political power.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Funny she wasn’t before the referendum!
> And why as a student did she throw eggs at Dennis Skinner?


did she? do tell more


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 21, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Flint is a labour leave supporter mate. I’d also suggest politically she more from the union RW labour tradition rather than Blairite.



I actually voted in the seat selection for Tony Sellars who was another candidate. She only got voted in cos she wasn’t tainted with the Donnygate scandal.


----------



## kebabking (Feb 21, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Someone was telling me that at the last Labour conference, Luciana Berger had to have a police bodyguard (this person would be no friend of the Blairites, by the way). Is this for real? And would it be fair to cite it (as my contact did) as evidence that Corbyn isn't doing enough to fight anti-semitism?



Yes, she had Police protection at the LP conference - she's had various levels of protection for the last 3 years or so. Things like having to change cars on a regular basis, she's had plod sat outside her house, hotels booked in false names...

There's a good dolop of far right AS abuse she gets - if you Google image her name some stuff comes up - but yes, the Labour/JC4PM stuff she gets would be enough to make me move to Diego Garcia...


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> did she? do tell more



We asked her after she was outed about it on Newsnight by Paxo.
She said it was just youthful, rebellious exuberance.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Yes, she had Police protection at the LP conference - she's had various levels of protection for the last 3 years or so. Things like having to change cars on a regular basis, she's had plod sat outside her house, hotels booked in false names...
> 
> There's a good dolop of far right AS abuse she gets - if you Google image her name some stuff comes up - but yes, the Labour/JC4PM stuff she gets would be enough to make me move to Diego Garcia...


you'd be more likely to be welcomed to dg than lb would.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> We asked her after she was outed about it on Newsnight by Paxo.
> She said it was just youthful, rebellious exuberance.


i had a quick search - "caroline flint" "dennis skinner" "threw eggs" - and nothing came up


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Yes, she had Police protection at the LP conference - she's had various levels of protection for the last 3 years or so. Things like having to change cars on a regular basis, she's had plod sat outside her house, hotels booked in false names...
> 
> There's a good dolop of far right AS abuse she gets - if you Google image her name some stuff comes up - but yes, the Labour/JC4PM stuff she gets would be enough to make me move to Diego Garcia...


FWIW Those I know who were at conference appeared to think that there was no protection whatsoever within the security perimeter of the conference.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i had a quick search - "caroline flint" "dennis skinner" "threw eggs" - and nothing came up



It never does!


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> you're not really narrowing it down



 i've just checked it was Michael Levy (so LP member not mp as I first thought).


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 21, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Funny she wasn’t before the referendum!
> And why as a student did she throw eggs at Dennis Skinner?



She’s been vocal since: Caroline Flint Says MPs' Attempt To Block No Deal Is A 'Trojan Horse' To Stop Brexit

You could argue that she’s set an example to other MPs by actually reflecting the views of her constituents


----------



## tommers (Feb 21, 2019)

I'm a bit bored now.  When's the next one?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2019)

tommers said:


> I'm a bit bored now.  When's the next one?


While we wait...from 100 years ago....like the "_not to be confused with..._"!


----------



## tommers (Feb 21, 2019)

I just want a continuous parade of people in suits telling me how upset they were to be put into the second stream at school.  Is that too much to ask?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> blair might be joining according to this
> 
> Tony Blair tipped to be next to join Independent Group
> 
> kiss of death. "new politics" my big fat fucking hair bollock.


There doesn't currently seem to be a way of joining anyway, unless they make an exception in the case of such exceptional talents as Blair. Presumably something to do with them not being a registered party yet. They do want money, supporters and volunteers though:
Support the Independent Group of MPs


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> There doesn't currently seem to be a way of joining anyway, unless they make an exception in the case of such exceptional talents as Blair. Presumably something to do with them not being a registered party yet. They do want money, supporters and volunteers though:
> Support the Independent Group of MPs



A committed bunch of troublemaking entryists could probably fuck them right up if we *cough* they got in early. Right?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> A committed bunch of troublemaking entryists could probably fuck them right up if we *cough* they got in early. Right?


and they'd have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for those pesky urbs


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

.


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> .


Excellent plan *taps nose*


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

Greening and Grieve have said they'd leave/Go Tiggers! in the case of no deal. Sounds more like inner party Brexit pressure for the moment, but is also a form of words that acts as an 'I told you so' if they do ultimately leave. Two senior Tories ready to resign if May fails to change Brexit direction


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)




----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> A committed bunch of troublemaking entryists could probably fuck them right up if we *cough* they got in early. Right?


I was thinking of offering to do a ring round of previous Labour members and supporters for them. Maybe if they just send me the list they nicked...


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Greening and Grieve have said they'd leave/Go Tiggers! in the case of no deal. Sounds more like inner party Brexit pressure for the moment, but is also a form of words that acts as an 'I told you so' if they do ultimately leave. Two senior Tories ready to resign if May fails to change Brexit direction


Seems to me that both Greening & Grieve have pretty much confirmed they'll be staying put; if their condition for jumping ship is a tory government actively pursuing/implementing a 'no-deal' Brexit, then they're not going anywhere.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Seems to me that both Greening & Grieve have pretty much confirmed they'll be staying put; if their condition for jumping ship is a tory government actively pursuing/implementing a 'no-deal' Brexit, then they're not going anywhere.


not yet anyway


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Seems to me that both Greening & Grieve have pretty much confirmed they'll be staying put; if their condition for jumping ship is a tory government actively pursuing/implementing a 'no-deal' Brexit, then they're not going anywhere.


That was my reading too, though in saying that they allow themselves to vote how they want on every and any issue over the next few weeks (though to be honest, every MP in the House is pretty much in that position now).


----------



## tim (Feb 21, 2019)

two sheds said:


> The way things have been going for her, I think May will be next.


Either her or Bercow


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

tim said:


> Either her or Bercow


Skinner should defect to them, just to shit 'em up.


----------



## tim (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Skinner should defect to them, just to shit 'em up.


Only if he can get Peter Bone to go with him.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2019)

Is it too early to go with a _Why the Independent group are shit _thread?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

I think it's quite telling that all the images on their website are of themselves. 
The Independent Group


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Is it too early to go with a _Why the Independent group are shit _thread?


Yeah, bit early. At the moment all we can go with is: 'Is it Possible to Give a Vacuum a Bad Name?'


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 21, 2019)

I've googled about Berger a bit further, and it's unclear at best if she had a police escort at the Liverpool conference. What I do know is that that would not be enough to satisfy the person who brought this one to my attention.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> I've googled about Berger a bit further, and it's unclear at best if she had a police escort at the Liverpool conference. What I do know is that that would not be enough to satisfy the person who brought this one to my attention.


are they a 'bring me the head of luciana berger' sort?


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> I've googled about Berger a bit further, and it's unclear at best if she had a police escort at the Liverpool conference. What I do know is that that would not be enough to satisfy the person who brought this one to my attention.



Berger has actually been targeted though hasn't she, by some far right nutjob?  Given what happened to Jo Cox it wouldn't be a surprise if she did have personal security, I wouldn't be surprised if lots did.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Berger has actually been targeted though hasn't she, by some far right nutjob?  Given what happened to Jo Cox it wouldn't be a surprise if she did have personal security, I wouldn't be surprised if lots did.


they've certainly asked for more protection



Dozens of MPs demand better police protection at Westminster following Anna Soubry abuse


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Labour MP given added police security after death threats


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> are they a 'bring me the head of luciana berger' sort?


Quite the opposite, in fact.


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 21, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Berger has actually been targeted though hasn't she, by some far right nutjob?  Given what happened to Jo Cox it wouldn't be a surprise if she did have personal security, I wouldn't be surprised if lots did.


If we're thinking of the same case, said nutjob got a stretch in the hoosegow for his behaviour.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 21, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Berger has actually been targeted though hasn't she, by some far right nutjob?  Given what happened to Jo Cox it wouldn't be a surprise if she did have personal security, I wouldn't be surprised if lots did.



Yes. And some of it is truly vile. What we don't know is how much is from LP members/supporters and the left archipelago around Corbyn and how much is from far right scum.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

In the guardian story about grieve and greening (firm of solicitors specialising in wills and environmental greenwash), the 3 who have left claim a third of the Tory Party would join them in the event of no deal. While that's clearly ridiculous, dishonest even, I do wonder whether the timing of the Tigger thing will hit the Tories just as much as Labour? Certainly Labour will be relieved it has happened amid Brexit and has become about both parties. If this had happened in normal times it would have been purely a 'Labour split cos of Corbyn' story.

I certainly don't discount the snap poll yesterday with this hitting Labour more in the polls. My guess is more substantial polls _will_ show Labour has been hit more by the defections. If opinion polls have the Brexit process welded onto them, Labour have the least clarity at the moment. Tories are just about the party of Brexit, whilst the Tiggers and other centrist filth shape up as anti-Brexit. Labour, sort of... if... However I'm not suggesting there is a 'realignment' going on. Back to normal times and the impact of Tig will just be at the level of individual constituencies. Overall though, and I'm a broken record on this, underneath is the failure of Corbyn to be a bit bolder. Bolder in terms of changing the structures of the party. Bolder too in terms of getting some kind of fightback against austerity, particularly in local government. But also getting out of the mindset that Labour engages with the working class by simply getting people to join Labour (or a union).


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Feb 21, 2019)

why are they called Tigger?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> why are they called Tigger?


The Independent Group.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> The Independent Group.


Ah - thought there was some winnie the pooh reference I was missing...


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Feb 21, 2019)

Chuka is my MP. He's such a slimy disingenuous opportunist.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

I think I used the term Tigger first on this thread and was quite proud of myself, only to discover last night that the foul Guido was using it as well. 

Edit: yes, I'm easily pleased.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Overall though, and I'm a broken record on this, underneath is the failure of Corbyn to be a bit bolder. Bolder in terms of changing the structures of the party. Bolder too in terms of getting some kind of fightback against austerity, particularly in local government. But also getting out of the mindset that Labour engages with the working class by simply getting people to join Labour (or a union).



And I'm a broken record on agreeing with you about this. Most of what's gone on in the last couple of years is people from different factions behaving as you'd expect people from those factions to. Often shit, but predictable. This failure of Corbyn's wasn't exactly unpredicted by some of his cautious-supporters as well as his opponents, but it's a big missed opportunity and one of the major frustrations since 2015.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 21, 2019)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Ah - thought there was some winnie the pooh reference I was missing...



Well, Tigger first turns up uninvited and unwelcome at Pooh's house, then proceeds to insist that his favourite thing is the same as the favourite thing of the character he's talking to, completely changing what that thing is as he meets each successive new character, only for it to turn out he doesn't really like any of those things at all.

You might be able to do something with that


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 21, 2019)

Tingers


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2019)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Chuka is my MP. He's such a slimy disingenuous opportunist.



Krakow East?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Yes. And some of it is truly vile. What we don't know is how much is from LP members/supporters and the left archipelago around Corbyn and how much is from far right scum.


We do have a pretty good idea, actually. All of the bullshit from the left is restricted to being rude on social media, the rape and death threats have come from one side only.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> We do have a pretty good idea, actually. All of the bullshit from the left is restricted to being rude on social media, the rape and death threats have come from one side only.



Haven't seen this evidence you cite but sounds about right.


----------



## klang (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> .


sometimes I wonder what the point is.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

Anyway, presumably any further Tory defections will wait till the eve of the next Brexit vote or at least the point where May starts snogging the erg? Inbetween, we'll have a couple more Labour defectors who suddenly decide Corbyn is an antisemite. Might get up to about 18 by the end of the month.

Small earth quake in Westminster. No real people killed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, presumably any further Tory defections will wait till the eve of the next Brexit vote or at least the point where May starts snogging the erg? Inbetween, we'll have a couple more Labour defectors who suddenly decide Corbyn is an antisemite. Might get up to about 18 by the end of the month.
> 
> Small earth quake in Westminster. No real people killed.


tbh it's more of a fart than an arsequake


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh it's more of a fart than an arsequake


A Sinclair C5 moment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> A Sinclair C5 moment.


yeh where for a few minutes there is mass hysteria as people think 'this may be the shape of the future' followed by a sudden realisation it was all a horrid mistake


----------



## TopCat (Feb 21, 2019)

I hope its more tories who jump now. Makes it more obvious then if any more Labour jump.


----------



## moochedit (Feb 21, 2019)

*cough* 



moochedit said:


> "Why the independent group are shit" ?





brogdale said:


> Is it too early to go with a _Why the Independent group are shit _thread?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

TopCat said:


> I hope its more tories who jump now. Makes it more obvious then if any more Labour jump.


You can imagine their first meeting:
"Gee, all those times we used to oppose each other over austerity and stuff! All the while, ha ha, *we were the same*"!


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

Guardian are now on Philip Lee watch as the next possible (tory) defector. Apparently he visited number 10 this morning and looked 'unhappy'. I'm more concerned that he wasn't wearing a tie, the monster. 

13:02 Brexit: Hammond warns of no-deal damage as more Tories consider exit - politics live


----------



## moochedit (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Guardian are now on Philip Lee watch as the next possible (tory) defector. Apparently he visited number 10 this morning and looked 'unhappy'. I'm more concerned that he wasn't wearing a tie, the monster.
> 
> 13:02 Brexit: Hammond warns of no-deal damage as more Tories consider exit - politics live



Who?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Guardian are now on Philip Lee watch as the next possible (tory) defector. Apparently he visited number 10 this morning and looked 'unhappy'.


I mean, wouldn't everyone?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 21, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> I mean, wouldn't everyone?




It’s hardly a smoking gun, is it?


----------



## treelover (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> You can imagine their first meeting:
> "Gee, all those times we used to oppose each other over austerity and stuff! All the while, ha ha, *we were the same*"!




Soubry more or less described a meeting of minds like that, here eyes were glossing over as if it was a religious experience, I think Heidi will be a bit more practical/robust.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

treelover said:


> Soubry more or less described a meeting of minds like that, here eyes were glossing over as if it was a religious experience, I think Heidi will be a bit more practical/robust.


Why are you on first name terms with Allen, but second with Soubry?


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, presumably any further Tory defections will wait till the eve of the next Brexit vote or at least the point where May starts snogging the erg?



Tory MP for Bracknell (can't be bothered to look him up) was on Radio yesterday afternoon saying that May refuses to meet the Tory group who are pushing for a second vote.  Refuses outright to have a single meeting with them yet (and I quote) "...is prepared to have seemingly daily meetings with the ERG".

He was citing this as the reason the 3 leavers had reached exasperation point.  If true though, its already beyond kissing and tongues are involved.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Why are you on first name terms with Allen, but second with Soubry?


Good point, b.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Tory MP for Bracknell (can't be bothered to look him up) was on Radio yesterday afternoon saying that May refuses to meet the Tory group who are pushing for a second vote.  Refuses outright to have a single meeting with them yet (and I quote) "...is prepared to have seemingly daily meetings with the ERG".
> 
> He was citing this as the reason the 3 leavers had reached exasperation point.  If true though, its already beyond kissing and tongues are involved.


It's Philip Lee, he of the unhappy face.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> You can imagine their first meeting:
> "Gee, all those times we used to oppose each other over austerity and stuff! All the while, ha ha, *we were the same*"!



'All this time, turns out it was _us _who were the sinister group of shadowy figures faking party loyalties while serving only their own interests, not the Jews.

Wait, Luciana - come back!'


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Good point, b.


Allen seems to be the Tory it's ok to like - a view which doesn't really stand up to scrutiny imo.


----------



## Sue (Feb 21, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Who?


Exactly. He'll fit right in.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Allen seems to be the Tory it's ok to like - a view which doesn't really stand up to scrutiny imo.



Probably entirely unrelated to her physical appearance I imagine.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Guardian are now on Philip Lee watch as the next possible (tory) defector. Apparently he visited number 10 this morning and looked 'unhappy'. I'm more concerned that he wasn't wearing a tie, the monster.
> 
> 13:02 Brexit: Hammond warns of no-deal damage as more Tories consider exit - politics live


He staying put, all a great big misunderstanding, apparently. 

"Philip Lee had been considered a possible Tory defector when he didn’t answer calls from reporters - only for it to transpire that he had been at the cinema with his wife"


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Allen seems to be the Tory it's ok to like - a view which doesn't really stand up to scrutiny imo.



Are you saying it might be based on something surface-deep only?


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

Not sure it's much of a slam-dunk to not know (or perform not knowing) who a back bencher is btw. No-one who's resigned so far (other than Shuker maybe) has been truly obscure.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

What kind of weirdo turns their phone off in the cinema?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> What kind of weirdo turns their phone off in the cinema?


My kind of weirdo


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Are you saying it might be based on something surface-deep only?


Also her compassionate conservatism shtick.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Not sure it's much of a slam-dunk to not know (or perform not knowing) who a back bencher is btw. No-one who's resigned so far (other than Shuker maybe) has been truly obscure.


I assure you, my ignorance is no performance


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Not sure it's much of a slam-dunk to not know (or perform not knowing) who a back bencher is btw. No-one who's resigned so far (other than Shuker maybe) has been truly obscure.


Ann Coffey? I'm still not sure who she is. Not sure I'd really have heard much of Smith if she wasn't a local.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> He staying put, all a great big misunderstanding, apparently.
> 
> "Philip Lee had been considered a possible Tory defector when he didn’t answer calls from reporters - only for it to transpire that he had been at the cinema with his wife"



Wonder what his face was like after the film finished?


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Also her compassionate conservatism shtick.



Yes, I think it's easy for people to fall into the trap of imagining that these are somehow the 'OK tories' because they're a little to the left of their peers on some issues. Even though they're still to the right of the insupportably right-wing monsters who've just deserted the labour party to join them.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> Ann Coffey? I'm still not sure who she is. Not sure I'd really have heard much of Smith if she wasn't a local.


Smith has been a bête noire of the Labour left over her water industry stuff for years. You're right about Coffey though though I guess.

Either way, what purpose does multiple people posting 'who?' to every resignation serve? It's easy to find out who someone is if you haven't heard of them. Is it supposed to signal that people think this is an insignificant development?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Is it supposed to signal that people think this is an insignificant development?


This, absolutely


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

Does anyone _actually_ think this is an insignificant development?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Does anyone _actually_ think this is an insignificant development?


Individually, other than Chuka & Berger, they are all pretty insignificant. The others weren't even successful Blairites. Add them all together and they just about manage to make themselves into a ripple amidst a tidal wave of shite.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 21, 2019)

Should be fairly obvious that it's not going to take that many 'insignificant' people to make significant things happen, with May's majority. Whether or not there's any 'realignment' or other significant shifts in the longer term.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Does anyone _actually_ think this is an insignificant development?


For me the 'who' thing is just an insult really, imagining their egos would be deflated if they thought nobody had heard of them (though I imagine they don't read urban). No, the whole things isn't insignificant at all. At the moment it weakens Labour, though it was bound to happen at some point. But whether it has long term significance, it would be daft to predict anything at the moment. There could be a version of events where it strengthens the left in Labour, though I don't see them learning the right lessons, so that's one of the more _unlikely_ outcomes.


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Does anyone _actually_ think this is an insignificant development?



Yep. Me.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> Yep. Me.



The TIGGERs are unlikely to become electorally successful, nor should they be 

In terms of impacts on other parties, of course it’s significant


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> The TIGGERs are unlikely to become electorally successful, nor should they be
> 
> In terms of impacts on other parties, of course it’s significant



Is it?

I mean, yeah, right now, at Westminster, the bubble will be consumed by this.

But Brexit has kinda suspended "business as usual" for them anyway. All this does us amplify that .A little.

Outside the bubble? If they can take a significant chunk of the membership and on the ground Party machinery with them. If they can put together a coherent Party platform and if they can then appeal to enough if the electorate in enough places to get some MPs next GE then, and only then, might they be significant enough to become a footnote in political history like all the other similar groups before them.

Don't get me wring, it's interesting for political nerds like us. But significant? Nah.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> Is it?
> 
> I mean, yeah, right now, at Westminster, the bubble will be consumed by this.
> 
> ...



With the usual caveats regarding polling, they seem to be taking a big chunk of labour support.

And as much as many on the left might not want to think about AS in labour, the TIG (especially Berger’s and Ryan’s) defections have further raised the profile of labour/left antisemitism


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> With the usual caveats regarding polling, they seem to be taking a big chunk of labour support.



Doesn't matter how well they poll unless they can put out a coherent slate of candidates with the boots on the ground to run campaigns.

If they get to that point, then it's starts to have the potential to be significant.

Until then it's bubble games.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> Is it?
> 
> I mean, yeah, right now, at Westminster, the bubble will be consumed by this.
> 
> ...


That's their key problem. The active membership and CLP structure isn't quite as Corbyn friendly as once was, particularly after his Brexit stance. But even so, I can't see too many current activists going over to a project that is at least part Tory.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Does anyone _actually_ think this is an insignificant development?



I think it is significant but I can't work out whether the impact is going to be significant and if there is a significant impact what it will be.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> That's their key problem. The active membership and CLP structure isn't quite as Corbyn friendly as once was, particularly after his Brexit stance. But even so, I can't see too many current activists going over to a project that is at least part Tory.



Activists (how many I dunno) are leaving, even if it’s not to TIG


----------



## Sue (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> That's their key problem. The active membership and CLP structure isn't quite as Corbyn friendly as once was, particularly after his Brexit stance. But even so, I can't see too many current activists going over to a project that is at least part Tory.



Yep, suspect a lot of Labour supporters who may have been reasonably sympathetic will be a lot less so now it's a joint project with the Tories.


----------



## Argonia (Feb 21, 2019)

Significant? If any of them manage to retain their seats at the next election I'll eat my marzipan hat. The question is - what hedge fund will Chuka go and work for once his fifteen minutes of fame are over.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> With the usual caveats regarding polling, they seem to be taking a big chunk of labour support.
> 
> And as much as many on the left might not want to think about AS in labour, the TIG (especially Berger’s and Ryan’s) defections have further raised the profile of labour/left antisemitism


Two polls, the first of which showed most support for TIG coming from the libdems. 

And the defection of those tories means the new group will simply be seen as anti-brexit. They have to push that angle now or they won’t get any more Tory support.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> With the usual caveats regarding polling, they seem to be taking a big chunk of labour support.
> 
> And as much as many on the left might not want to think about AS in labour, the TIG (especially Berger’s and Ryan’s) defections have further raised the profile of labour/left antisemitism


With Berger leaving, I'm genuinely unsure how this affects the AS issue in Labour. Sorry, not a post full of startling analysis, I'm just really unsure whether it bolsters the issue or diverts it. That sounds a slightly cynical formulation I'm sure, but I'm not someone who minimises the problem. It's been a real issue in the way the left has operated for a long time (stuff for other threads of course). But how it plays out amid the tig defections seems unclear.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 21, 2019)

We can’t judge Chuka, his granddad might have, but us lot.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Activists (how many I dunno) are leaving, even if it’s not to TIG


Your friends on the right like to claim this, but they never actually put forward any evidence for it. The number of activists from the right who may have left is massively outweighed my the lefties who’ve joined.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Activists (how many I dunno) are leaving, even if it’s not to TIG


Yes, certainly, but as you say not to tig or similar. Probably that whole wave who joined in the Corbyn revivalist meetings, but never really made it to becoming the kind of person who trudges the streets leafletting and the rest.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> Your friends on the right like to claim this, but they never actually put forward any evidence for it. The number of activists from the right who may have left is massively outweighed my the lefties who’ve joined.



My friend on the right?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> My friend on the right?


The ones you love to keep quoting as keepers of the truth (as long as its anti-labour).  UNless of course you have some independent evidence for your claim that you're keeping quiet about.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> Two polls, the first of which showed most support for TIG coming from the libdems.
> 
> And the defection of those tories means the new group will simply be seen as anti-brexit. They have to push that angle now or they won’t get any more Tory support.



Three polls, Survation, compared to their last poll, showed some of the TIG support coming from the LibDems (down 3%), leaving Labour on 34% (down 4%).

The other two showed most of the support coming from Labour, both reducing Labour's share to just 26%.


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

I really, really wouldn't read anything in to polling for a Party that doesn't exist yet.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

Which right wing sources have I quoted re activists leaving belboid? Activists have said they are leaving. Unless they are secretly staying in the LP (and hey this plot runs deep so who knows eh) you’re being a bit daft. 

And if the lefty politicos aren’t fussed about AS you can’t rrally expect Jews to refuse to use ‘right wing sources’. 

That you still are clinging to his mindset even though it’s damaging the LP is just bizarre


----------



## moochedit (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> With the usual caveats regarding polling, they seem to be taking a big chunk of labour support.



I'd take any polls with a pinch of salt.

IIRC the 80s SDP got over 50% in some opinion polls just after they launched but in real elections they of course got nothing like it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> I really, really wouldn't read anything in to polling for a Party that doesn't exist yet.



Very true, these polls are only a snap-shot of the damage that COULD been done, nothing more.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2019)

I don't buy this talk of a 10 year plan or seriously setting up a party with all the hard work establishing then supporting an actual membership and infrastructure model would entail. This is a last throw of the dice to pressure all sides into a second referendum or something to stop brexit somehow - extension first probably. It's a pebble thrown in the lake from desperation. None of these cunts are sticking around long-term - and have no real intention to except maybe that leslie bloke who thinks he's the king across the water for some reason.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2019)

The outcome of Brexit is going to be such a washing machine for all the parties that current poles are meaningless for anyone trying to look ahead to a future GE.

Just looking at hard brexit alone that could just as easily collapse support for the tories for a decade or if it turns out not as bad as predictions (short term anyway) the tories could smash the next GE on a wave of patriotism.  

Lord knows for all the other myriad of brexit outcomes.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 21, 2019)

moochedit said:


> I'd take any polls with a pinch of salt.
> 
> IIRC the 80s SDP got over 50% in some opinion polls just after they launched but in real elections they of course got nothing like it.



Yep, they were polling that high, then the Falklands happened, and at the 1983 GE the SDP/Lib only got just over 25%, and only 23 MPs.


----------



## Argonia (Feb 21, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yep, they were polling that high, then the Falklands happened, and at the 1983 GE the SDP/Lib only got just over 25%, and only 23 MPs.



Yes but the SDP-Lib Alliance got 7,780,949 votes compared to Labour's 8,456,934 which isn't actually all that far off. Electoral system in action again. I wonder if the tiggers will be pro-PR.

1983 United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

Argonia said:


> . I wonder if the tiggers will be pro-PR.



Well it would double their policy positions


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> And if the lefty politicos aren’t fussed about AS you can’t rrally expect Jews to refuse to use ‘right wing sources’.


The large majority of the left, ime, agrees that there is an issue with AS, but disagree with that it means the labour party is riddled with it, as the right claim. There have been many attempts by the left to put forward solutions.  But they are dismissed if they don't accept the premise that Labour is riddled with antisemitism. Even when coming from jews, they are dismissed (as one was this morning, on Good Morning Britain) as 'self-hating jews'. What a load of reactionary shite. It's almost as if it were a game deliberately designed to be unwinnable.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 21, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Yes but the SDP-Lib Alliance got 7,780,949 votes compared to Labour's 8,456,934 which isn't actually all that far off. Electoral system in action again. I wonder if the tiggers will be pro-PR.
> 
> 1983 United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia



Yep, and whilst the Alliance didn't make great gains, they seriously damaged Labour.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> The large majority of the left, ime, agrees that there is an issue with AS, but disagree with that it means the labour party is riddled with it, as the right claim. There have been many attempts by the left to put forward solutions.  But they are dismissed if they don't accept the premise that Labour is riddled with antisemitism. Even when coming from jews, they are dismissed (as one was this morning, on Good Morning Britain) as 'self-hating jews'. What a load of reactionary shite. It's almost as if it were a game deliberately designed to be unwinnable.



Er the ‘self hating jew’ comment was condemned by the same people you moan about.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> And if the lefty politicos aren’t fussed about AS you can’t rrally expect Jews to refuse to use ‘right wing sources’.
> 
> That you still are clinging to his mindset even though it’s damaging the LP is just bizarre



Do you agree that there has been bias in the media and elsewhere about AS within labour? 

Flawed reporting on antisemitism claims against the Labour party | Letter

This report and the letter highlighting it was pretty well ignored.


----------



## newbie (Feb 21, 2019)

As I read through the last page I was thinking this has a life expectancy of about a month. It's designed for immediate impact on the Brexit mess.  They've convinced themselves nothing else matters. 

then I got to the bottom and found butchers had said the same thing.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

two sheds said:


> Do you agree that there has been bias in the media and elsewhere about AS within labour?
> 
> Flawed reporting on antisemitism claims against the Labour party | Letter
> 
> This report and the letter highlighting it was pretty well ignored.



Who gives a fuck if ‘the media’ are mean to labour? You take that as a given surely?

That the report was ‘ignored’ may also be linked to the fact it wasn’t peer reviewed, and wasn’t (as the author initially claimed) an official birkbeck report


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> The large majority of the left, ime, agrees that there is an issue with AS, but disagree with that it means the labour party is riddled with it, as the right claim. There have been many attempts by the left to put forward solutions.  But they are dismissed if they don't accept the premise that Labour is riddled with antisemitism. Even when coming from jews, they are dismissed (as one was this morning, on Good Morning Britain) as 'self-hating jews'. What a load of reactionary shite. It's almost as if it were a game deliberately designed to be unwinnable.


The self hating Michael Segalov has a decent article about Labour AS in the Graun this morning. 

Here's how Labour can tackle antisemitism: a massive overhaul  | Michael Segalov


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> The self hating Michael Segalov has a decent article about Labour AS in the Graun this morning.
> 
> Here's how Labour can tackle antisemitism: a massive overhaul  | Michael Segalov


Yup, that is a really good piece


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Er the ‘self hating jew’ comment was condemned by the same people you moan about.


and yet, you have done almst exactly the same thing 



MadeInBedlam said:


> But Rosen is Jewish. And never before has any Jewish person/person with a Jewish background had a problematic attitude to antisemitism.
> 
> IDPol eh?


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

He isn't doing the same thing there at all.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> and yet, you have done almst exactly the same thing



Lol you utter shitstain.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> He isn't doing the same thing there at all.


Really? How so? It's two people saying a jewish persons experience of antisemitism and how to deal with it isn't valid, so how's it different?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> The self hating Michael Segalov has a decent article about Labour AS in the Graun this morning.
> 
> Here's how Labour can tackle antisemitism: a massive overhaul  | Michael Segalov



And has been attacked by corbynistas for doing so. As were Momentum for writing pieces on labour AS.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> And has been attacked by corbynistas for doing so. As were Momentum for writing pieces on labour AS.


I know?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> Really? How so? It's two people saying a jewish persons experience of antisemitism and how to deal with it isn't valid, so how's it different?



Given that I er didnt say that, and given that crap you and others have said to/about me for my views on antisemtism and how it should be dealt, you really are something else.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> I know?



What?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> And has been attacked by corbynistas for doing so. As were Momentum for writing pieces on labour AS.


lol, so Momentum and Segalov aren't 'corbynistas'?  That'll be news to them.  You are taking a tiny number of individuals and are somehow believing them to be 'the left' even when you are quoting others on the left who are actively disagreeing with them.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Given that I er didnt say that, and given that crap you and others have said to/about me for my views on antisemtism and how it should be dealt, you really are something else.


So Rosen's 'problematic' opinion (and this was in a part of the thread when you seemed to be calling for him to be no-platformed for anti-semitism) is perfectly valid not problematic then?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> lol, so Momentum and Segalov aren't 'corbynistas'?  That'll be news to them.  You are taking a tiny number of individuals and are somehow believing them to be 'the left' even when you are quoting others on the left who are actively disagreeing with them.



There’s more than two corbynistas belboid. HTH. 

When labour left types indicate that AS is an issue they are attacked for ‘giving into the smears’ or some other crap.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> So Rosen's 'problematic' opinion (and this was in a part of the thread when you seemed to be calling for him to be no-platformed for anti-semitism) is perfectly valid not problematic then?



I said he doesn’t get a free pass on AS because  he’s jewish. 

I stated that the allegation against him was that he was enabling (or whatever it was) AS (as is in the tweet itself). 

Y’know, my approach to combatting antisemtism involves putting my energy into er combatting it (something which has come at considerable cost), not into angrily denouncing those who campaign against AS, or lying about what people have said. 

Are you going to apologise for claiming my comment is akin to calling someone a ‘self hating jew’?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> There’s more than two corbynistas belboid. HTH.
> 
> When labour left types indicate that AS is an issue they are attacked for ‘giving into the smears’ or some other crap.


Yes dear, that was my point./  But you then repeat the old rightwing line that it is THE labour left who is riddled with this AS. We have seen it repeatedly over the last few days how it is Momentum who have taken over the party and which is riddled with AS. And, yet, it is Momentum who are, quite rightly, supporting these anti-AS campaigns. They are slagged off by a small minority of the left within that left. So it is just untrue to say 'the left' ignore it. What you mean is 'they dont answer it the way I want them to' which is rather different.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I said he doesn’t get a free pass on AS because  he’s jewish.


No you didn't. You were defending Euan Philips trying to get Rosen no-platformed for anti-semitism.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 21, 2019)

Argonia said:


> I wonder if the tiggers will be pro-PR.



Wouldn't surprise me at all if they all suddenly became deeply invested in this issue despite having shown no interest in it whatsoever back when FPTP was still working in their favour.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> Yes dear, that was my point./  But you then repeat the old rightwing line that it is THE labour left who is riddled with this AS. We have seen it repeatedly over the last few days how it is Momentum who have taken over the party and which is riddled with AS. And, yet, it is Momentum who are, quite rightly, supporting these anti-AS campaigns. They are slagged off by a small minority of the left within that left. So it is just untrue to say 'the left' ignore it. What you mean is 'they dont answer it the way I want them to' which is rather different.



When did I say riddled?


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

belboid said:


> Yup, that is a really good piece


Do you think your approach to the topic could learn something from it?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> When did I say riddled?


Dont you think that? It appears you do from your pots. Apologies if you do recognise it is only a few cranks and arseholes. But if tat is the case, they're hardly in a position to take over the Labour party and make the UK wholly inhospitable for jewish people.


----------



## kabbes (Feb 21, 2019)

Not that the anti-semitism issue isn’t important, but does every thread involving Labour really need to become a rehash of it?  This stuff is already totally dominating the Corbyn thread.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Do you think your approach to the topic could learn something from it?


I made many of the same points he does in the Jeremy Corbyn thread, especially about the need to speed up the process. He doesn't say anything about arguing on the internet with individual people who just pull up random comments from twitter trawls or who dismiss other jewish peoples opinions when they dont agree with them.

(or, indeed, who try to turn every thread mentioning the Labour Party into one on antisemitism)


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> I really, really wouldn't read anything in to polling for a Party that doesn't exist yet.


This. Many many times this.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Not that the anti-semitism issue isn’t important, but does every thread involving Labour really need to become a rehash of it?  This stuff is already totally dominating the Corbyn thread.


I agree, but it's difficult not to have outbreaks of it on here considering it's front & centre one of the main reasons given for the split.


----------



## Spod (Feb 21, 2019)

Voted labour all my life except the last GE (went LibDem). Corbyn and the current regime does not represent centre-leftists remainers (like me).



Streathamite said:


> Not really, it was for being such fanatically disloyal, treacherous, backstabbing wankers that they were seen by their CLPs as representing a threat to Labour's future chances of winning elections.
> Labour generally give backbench MPs a lot of latitude in sticking by their own line. IME you have to do an awful lot to get vonc


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 21, 2019)

Spod said:


> Voted labour all my life except the last GE (went LibDem). Corbyn and the current regime does not represent centre-leftists remainers (like me).



I think Corbyn represents centre leftists pretty well, I mean he hardly represents full on leftists. I suspect your political leanings are not what you believe them to be.


----------



## YouSir (Feb 21, 2019)

Spod said:


> Voted labour all my life except the last GE (went LibDem). Corbyn and the current regime does not represent centre-leftists remainers (like me).



Brexit aside what policies offend your Centre Left sensibilities?


----------



## Sue (Feb 21, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> I think Corbyn represents centre leftists pretty well, I mean he hardly represents full on leftists. I suspect your political leanings are not what you believe them to be.



This is interesting. I was out with a friend at the weekend who was telling me how much he hated Corbyn because he's a 'loony lefty'. This same friend then self-identified as a socialist I think because he 1) doesn't know much about politics 2) was brought up in a working class family in the NW and that's how people described themselves.

He doesn't seem to understand the massive disconnect between his current views (he seriously sounded like the Daily Mail at times ) and how he sees himself politically. I found it all really strange.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

I think how many people identify politically is for the most part a cultural rather than a political thing tbh.


----------



## Santino (Feb 21, 2019)

Spod said:


> Voted labour all my life except the last GE (went LibDem). Corbyn and the current regime does not represent centre-leftists remainers (like me).


Centre-leftists didn't vote Lib Dem in 2017.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2019)

Sue said:


> This is interesting. I was out with a friend at the weekend who was telling me how much he hated Corbyn because he's a 'loony lefty'. This same friend then self-identified as a socialist I think because he 1) doesn't know much about politics 2) was brought up in a working class family in the NW and that's how people described themselves.
> 
> He doesn't seem to understand the massive disconnect between his current views (he seriously sounded like the Daily Mail at times ) and how he sees himself politically. I found it all really strange.





killer b said:


> I think how many people identify politically is for the most part a cultural rather than a political thing tbh.


That reminds me a bit of my mike gapes story (which is shit) , he was shitting it on our estate pub after doing some door-knocking when his seat was twinned with ours (after giving it the east end hardman spiel all day). I remember getting talking to a bloke who worked with my uncle whilst in there, giving us total encouragement, _we've always been red, hard left, my dad his dad_ etc and saying that he'd feel betrayed if his daughter voted anything but labour. But he didn't agree with the party on _anything _that we talked about that night at all. That happened all the time - just brought to memory because of Gapes and i saw that uncle yesterday.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 21, 2019)

Sue said:


> This is interesting. I was out with a friend at the weekend who was telling me how much he hated Corbyn because he's a 'loony lefty'. This same friend then self-identified as a socialist I think because he 1) doesn't know much about politics 2) was brought up in a working class family in the NW and that's how people described themselves.
> 
> He doesn't seem to understand the massive disconnect between his current views (he seriously sounded like the Daily Mail at times ) and how he sees himself politically. I found it all really strange.



I *think* it's a bit of a hangover from the 1980's, especially in the North, that people sometimes see being a socialist as not quite the same as being part of the 'Loony Left'. Older people remember Corbyn as being part of the London/Tribune set.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 21, 2019)

Spod said:


> Corbyn and the current regime does not represent centre-leftists remainers (like me).


Good.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Feb 21, 2019)

Spod said:


> Voted labour all my life except the last GE (went LibDem). Corbyn and the current regime does not represent centre-leftists remainers (like me).



As a centre leftist remainer how are you with solidarity strike action, rent controls, the abolition of private education and the nationalisation of road haulage?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Sue (Feb 21, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> I *think* it's a bit of a hangover from the 1980's, especially in the North, that people sometimes see being a socialist as not quite the same as being part of the 'Loony Left'. Older people remember Corbyn as being part of the London/Tribune set.



He's 42 so a bit young for the 80s stuff tbh.


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> I *think* it's a bit of a hangover from the 1980's, especially in the North, that people sometimes see being a socialist as not quite the same as being part of the 'Loony Left'. Older people remember Corbyn as being part of the London/Tribune set.



Not just older people.

(Unless I'm old )


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

Most people in their 40s who knew who Corbyn was at all before 2015 will have been from that time in 2003 they went on an anti-war demo and Corbyn gave a speech. That single anti-war demo is also how they've been able to consider themselves _left_ for the last 15 years.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Most people in their 40s who knew who Corbyn was at all before 2015 will have been from that time in 2003 they went on an anti-war demo and Corbyn gave a speech. That single anti-war demo is also how they've been able to consider themselves _left_ for the last 15 years.


I knew who he was from when a friend in Camden stop the poll tax had assistance from jc to get a new passport in a hurry so he could get to the fête de l'humanité


----------



## chilango (Feb 21, 2019)

...and I think it's the hangover of this "trendy lefties" past that's hobbling Corbyn in his attempt to present as mild mannered Social Democrat.

Sure, the old white men in the media are just reprinting the same shit smears as the 1980s.

But more importantly Corbyn can't shake off his pals from then and their shitty Trot Lite cause based hobbyist. Of which Palestine (and the anti-Semitism that that attracts) is the most prominent.

Basically, Corbyn is a shit choice as the figurehead but a)it wasn't really planned and b) who else is there?

But, what do I care? I'm not a Labour supporter.


----------



## Tankus (Feb 21, 2019)

Its not Corbyn ...its McDonnell ,  is the issue .....to me


----------



## greenfield (Feb 21, 2019)

Why is McDonnell so hated amongst the PLP?


----------



## kebabking (Feb 21, 2019)

greenfield said:


> Why is McDonnell so hated amongst the PLP?



From long before Corbyn won the leadership election - he has an _abrasive _debating style, he could start a fight in an empty room. Since Corbyn won the the leadership election his approach and personality have, err... magnified. 

Doesn't play well with others.


----------



## moochedit (Feb 21, 2019)

kebabking said:


> he has an _abrasive _debating style, he could start a fight in an empty room.



Does he post on here?


----------



## weltweit (Feb 21, 2019)

When I first heard of Labour MPs leaving to form a new group I thought that is Corbyn's chance at an election win finished. I have always read that voters don't like divided parties. Then some Tory MPs followed suit and .. well someone has to win the next election.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2019)

kebabking said:


> From long before Corbyn won the leadership election - he has an _abrasive _debating style, he could start a fight in an empty room. Since Corbyn won the the leadership election his approach and personality have, err... magnified.
> 
> Doesn't play well with others.


Magnified? Quite the opposite, he’s been seen as the ameliorating force trying to hold the main party wings together. Among the centre left MPs his standing has risen.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 21, 2019)

I note that the Tory splitters were talking about ‘destroying the party’. Did wonder if this sort of statement was thought through and planned in order to separate the new group from the tories in the eye of Labour supporters, so that it doesn’t put them off engaging with the new group. Easy to say ‘but there’s tories in with that lot’, but gives a defence of ‘ah, but they hate the tories, so not really’.

Think I predicted a while back that Brexit would somehow turn out fucking up Labour the same way the Scottish Indy ref did, despite it being a Tory mess, and maybe this new grouping will be the way this happens. Fucking Tory rule forever.


----------



## tim (Feb 21, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Does he post on here?



Magari!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 21, 2019)

1. The middle class composition and the concomitant imperialism of the left - culturally, in respect of values, methods etc have turned off a massive segment of the working class who know that the culture, values and methods aren’t theirs. 
2. The old Labour Party once looked low and professed to represent a particular type of working class person- White, Industrial, socially conservative. As that group in society has become peripheralised, the left has lost interest in them and their issues but, and this is important, the lefts focus on anti racism, gender etc has created a schism as these groups are perceived to undermine the previous relative privilege that the aforementioned group once enjoyed by that group. 
3. Labour has increased its popular support on economic issues as it become increasingly clear that financial liberalism is a disaster. But on social liberalism it hasn’t and it’s the latter where the battle have and are increasingly being fought.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 21, 2019)

Interesting. I guess it would make sense to hang her out to dry if they feel they have enough evidence seeing as how she's decided to jump ship to... well somewhere anyway.

Labour reports former MP Joan Ryan over alleged data breach


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

teqniq said:


> Interesting. I guess it would make sense to hang her out to dry if they feel they have enough evidence seeing as how she's decided to jump ship to... well somewhere anyway.
> 
> Labour reports former MP Joan Ryan over alleged data breach


From reading that it's pretty clear that Leslie is admitting accessing the data up until they left, but not after. Can't see Labour getting very far with this. Or is the issue about further storage/use of the data after leaving, rather than the point when they accessed it?


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

the final sentence of that article is fabulous. You can tell the journo writing it is aroused.

_The newly formed group, whose members also include Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston, has already built up a significant social media presence, gaining more Twitter followers since its formation on Monday than the leftwing grassroots group Momentum.

_


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> From reading that it's pretty clear that Leslie is admitting accessing the data up until they left, but not after. Can't see Labour getting very far with this. Or is the issue about further storage/use of the data after leaving, rather than the point when they accessed it?


They reckon Ryan tried to access it after she'd left the party. Should be easy enough to prove if true.


----------



## Sue (Feb 21, 2019)

Wilf said:


> From reading that it's pretty clear that Leslie is admitting accessing the data up until they left, but not after. Can't see Labour getting very far with this. Or is the issue about further storage/use of the data after leaving, rather than the point when they accessed it?


I imagine it's both. Tbh, they didn't really have a choice about reporting a breach/suspected breach. There are pretty serious consequences if they aren't reported or aren't reported within the required timeframe.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> They reckon Ryan tried to access it after she'd left the party. Should be easy enough to prove if true.


Yeah but, given the straight denials, I wondered whether this might be some grey area, timewise. Or alternatively, about taking data that had previously been accessed.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> They reckon Ryan tried to access it after she'd left the party. Should be easy enough to prove if true.



That's what I thought, but Formby's statement is more ambiguous 


> “Data held by the party, including within Contact Creator and other systems used for election or other campaigning work, may only be accessed by individuals who are authorised to access it, *and may be used only for purposes authorised by the party as data controller.*


(my emphasis)
Someone accessing data while still officially a Labour MP and then resigning and making use of that data could also be a breach.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2019)

I desperately hope she gets done for data fraud and sent down, triggering a by-election.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> I desperately hope she gets done for data fraud and sent down, triggering a by-election.


That would be a nice bonus.


----------



## rekil (Feb 21, 2019)

agricola said:


> meanwhile everyone else:


Chuka anytime one of the others gets a telly appearance instead of him.



Spoiler


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> I've googled about Berger a bit further, and it's unclear at best if she had a police escort at the Liverpool conference. What I do know is that that would not be enough to satisfy the person who brought this one to my attention.



I'm not a fan. As frogwoman can confirm, Berger attempted to get the Islamic Society at SOAS closed down on claims by the UJS (that's the Union of Jewish Students, for you non-Chosen People). This was soon after she left the NUS (she was on the NUS NEC). She then attempted to pass the buck onto other UJS members, when things got heated.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 21, 2019)

Bit late at night. Been reading some of posts.

As I said previously I live in Lambeth. Coldharbour Ward. Counts as one of the most deprived 20% in the country. 

Chuka is New Labour as is the Labour Council. 

Whilst in Lambeth most people oppose Brexit that does not mean people support New Labour.

Chuka is on the right of the party. He opposed Corbyn from the start. Before the anti semitism became an issue.

From his early days he has moved to the right. That is why his independent group can have Tories in it. 

Setting aside Corbyn what he disagrees with is class politics. 

As my fellow Lambeth resident Brixton Hatter  pointed out the long queues at foodbanks in his constituency are something he didn't bring up when announcing the Independent group. 

The fact that he is quite happy at having Tories in his Independent group says something.

London is increasingly becoming more divided between the haves and have nots. 

I don't see Chuka taking an interest in that.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Berger has actually been targeted though hasn't she, by some far right nutjob?  Given what happened to Jo Cox it wouldn't be a surprise if she did have personal security, I wouldn't be surprised if lots did.



Yes, she's been targeted a lot by the right, merely for being Jewish, and yes she's had SOME stick from Momentum members that was entirely unjustified, but she's also made claims that communications with her that purely criticised Zionist policy in Israel in polite terms, was "anti-Semitic". She also has form pre-Westminster for stirring up wasp nests with regard to Israel and anti-Semitism.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> why are they called Tigger?



Because they want to ruin my childhood memories, the bastards!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Chuka is my MP. He's such a slimy disingenuous opportunist.



Mine too, and I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 21, 2019)

Gramsci Been said before but Chuka Umanna is only interested in Chuka Umunna.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 21, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> I don't see Chuka taking an interest in that.



dunno.  he seems to have had a couple of donations from Intro Developments, who seem to be a property developer.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 21, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> dunno.  he seems to have had a couple of donations from Intro Developments, who seem to be a property developer.



I see he is paying himself for the work he does on his think-tank. Nice


> From 1 August 2018 until further notice, chair of the Advisory Board of The Progressive Centre UK think tank (also known as Global Progress (London) Ltd), of 9 Chamberlain House, 126 Westminster Bridge Road, London SE1 7UR. I expect to spend approximately 12 hours each month on my duties as Chair and on preparing publications and other content, in return for a monthly payment of £5,420 (£65,040 a year). (Registered 10 October 2018)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

greenfield said:


> Why is McDonnell so hated amongst the PLP?



For the same reason he was hated at the GLC - because (unlike Ken Livingstone) he's never been remotely interested in winning people round to his view. His view is the right view, and if you don't agree, then you don't exist. This has pissed many of the PLP off - usually the ones who don't look beyond his abrasive personality, at what he's actually saying.


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 21, 2019)

Spod said:


> Voted labour all my life except the last GE (went LibDem). Corbyn and the current regime does not represent centre-leftists remainers (like me).


Corbyn IS centre left! It's just that British politics has shifted so far right.
Tbh,y you're centre right


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 21, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> For the same reason he was hated at the GLC - because (unlike Ken Livingstone) he's never been remotely interested in winning people round to his view. His view is the right view, and if you don't agree, then you don't exist. This has pissed many of the PLP off - usually the ones who don't look beyond his abrasive personality, at what he's actually saying.


A bit like a Denis Healey of the left, tbh! Tbf,he's got more conciliatory over the past few years


----------



## 8ball (Feb 21, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> For the same reason he was hated at the GLC - because (unlike Ken Livingstone) he's never been remotely interested in winning people round to his view. His view is the right view, and if you don't agree, then you don't exist. This has pissed many of the PLP off - usually the ones who don't look beyond his abrasive personality, at what he's actually saying.



He always seems quite genial to me in a curmudgeonly sort of way.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2019)

Streathamite said:


> A bit like a Denis Healey of the left, tbh! Tbf,he's got more conciliatory over the past few years



He was a right cunt at the GLC. Worst thing was he couldn't understand why people would walk the other way if they saw him coming!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 21, 2019)

If there’s a general election anytime soon, this lot are absolutely finished. Would any of them keep their seats? I can’t see it myself.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 21, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> If there’s a general election anytime soon, this lot are absolutely finished. Would any of them keep their seats? I can’t see it myself.


Would they necessarily stand for their own seats though?


----------



## kebabking (Feb 21, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> If there’s a general election anytime soon, this lot are absolutely finished. Would any of them keep their seats? I can’t see it myself.



Sarah Woolaston _might, _she's popular within the constituency as a GP and being pretty outspoken on health issues, but she's all over the road on Brexit - having offended all sides - and she's unlikely to be winning points by (arguably) making TM's life more difficult.

I _assume_ that Anna Soubry is popular within her constituency - otherwise she'd have have been deselected by now, so far off the normal Tory reservation is she...


----------



## Whagwan (Feb 21, 2019)

Nope Soubry only has a majority of 839.  She lost 8 points in the Corbz swing between 2015 and 2017.


----------



## agricola (Feb 21, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Sarah Woolaston _might, _she's popular within the constituency as a GP and being pretty outspoken on health issues, but she's all over the road on Brexit - having offended all sides - and she's unlikely to be winning points by (arguably) making TM's life more difficult.
> 
> I _assume_ that Anna Soubry is popular within her constituency - otherwise she'd have have been deselected by now, so far off the normal Tory reservation is she...



I don't think they had had much time to start down that road as it is - she didn't really have a history of rebellion and it wasn't until election night that she spoke out (and that was about how rubbish the campaign / the PM was).  Most of her ardent anti-Brexit stuff dates from after then as well.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 21, 2019)

Whagwan said:


> Nope Soubry only has a majority of 839.  She lost 8 points in the Corbz swing between 2015 and 2017.



I live in the constituency.  I think that majority of 839 is long gone judging by what people are saying.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 22, 2019)

8ball said:


> I live in the constituency.  I think that majority of 839 is long gone judging by what people are saying.



Is the word on the street that she like, a dead lady walkin?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 22, 2019)

Wookey said:


> Is the word on the street that she like, a dead lady walkin?



Well, it's all going by who shouts loudest.  The lefties always despised her, but the Brexiters are fucking livid right now.


----------



## tim (Feb 22, 2019)

Jess Phillips feels closer without a shadow of a doubt to the Defecators than she does to Corbin

Labour MP Jess Phillips: ‘I feel closer to Luciana Berger [than Jeremy Corbyn] without any shadow of a doubt’



Lucky old Defecators


----------



## ska invita (Feb 22, 2019)

worth bearing in mind all the political party changes across europe, historic parties collapsing, others rising, new parties emerging....this is partly what the brexit vote was for right?


----------



## tim (Feb 22, 2019)

ska invita said:


> worth bearing in mind all the political party changes across europe, historic parties collapsing, others rising, new parties emerging....this is partly what the brexit vote was for right?



Worth bearing in mind the SDP and the gang of four, although Chukka is clearly no Bill Rodgers.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 22, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Sarah Woolaston _might, _she's popular within the constituency as a GP and being pretty outspoken on health issues, but she's all over the road on Brexit - having offended all sides - and she's unlikely to be winning points by (arguably) making TM's life more difficult.
> 
> I _assume_ that Anna Soubry is popular within her constituency - otherwise she'd have have been deselected by now, so far off the normal Tory reservation is she...



Soubry has a pretty slim majority IIRC.

Leslie is a crap constituency MP (he was parachuted in here after losing another seat) and is well known around here as a tory in all but name. If they put a red rosette on a traffic cone it would beat him in an election.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 22, 2019)

8ball said:


> I live in the constituency.  I think that majority of 839 is long gone judging by what people are saying.



This is the real reason Soubry is so fucking pissed at May remember - it's not Brexit it's that she nearly lost her seat. She was a lot quieter before the GE.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 22, 2019)

Another Labour MP gone - Ian Austin.

EXCLUSIVE: Ian Austin MP latest to quit ‘broken’ Labour Party

No plan to join The Independent Group.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> The new group is more than anything an anti Brexit group, so flint isn't going to be joining. Same for mann. Kendall has made her peace with Brexit too IIRC. The only reason Austin hasn't jumped yet is because of this - on the balance i think he might still, but it'll involve some significant contortions to make himself fit...


Austin has left Labour, but hasn't joined the IG.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

The Augean stables appear to be cleaning themselves.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

I had an Austin that gave up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> The Augean stables appear to be cleaning themselves.


reroute the thames through the palace of westminster to sweep the filth away


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

Maybe he could start another independent group with the sex offenders.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> Austin has left Labour, but hasn't joined the IG.


The splitters splitting. 

You can easily see the TIG collapsing when it gets to the first sticky political issue. All the rats running in different directions


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> reroute the thames through the palace of westminster to sweep the filth away


Ha! Reminds me that, in _News from Nowhere, _Morris had the Palace of Westminster as the city's dung heap.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 22, 2019)

As much as I hate The Sun, they do come up with classic headlines, did anyone see yesterday's? 

The Split Hits The Fan.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Perhaps Austin could pal up with mad Frankie Field to form the really independent group?


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Perhaps Austin could pal up with mad Frankie Field to form the really independent group?


The real independent group - TRIG


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> The real independent group - TRIG


**TRIGger warning**


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 22, 2019)

That would be a bit Monty Python, wouldn't it? 

Are you The Independent Group? No, we are The Real Independent Group.

Tiggers & Triggers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Ha! Reminds me that, in _News from Nowhere, _Morris had the Palace of Westminster as the city's dung heap.


how prescient he was, as villages, towns and cities from across the land still send their human refuse to that nefandous building


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

Remember Austin, powers!


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> how prescient he was, as villages, towns and cities from across the land still send their human refuse to that nefandous building


spot on


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> **TRIGger warning**


v. good


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> That would be a bit Monty Python, wouldn't it?


Mr. Praline: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

_(The owner does not respond.)_

Mr. Praline: 'Ello, Miss?

Owner: What do you mean "miss"?

Mr. Praline: _(pause)_I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

Owner: We're closin' for lunch.

Mr. Praline: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this tigger what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Chuka Umunna...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

Mr. Praline: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!

Owner: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 22, 2019)

In addition to Tinge we now have two independent Labour MP's - unable to join Tinge because of its lunatic remain position - and a rumored _third _centrist group being funded by Blair/Rowling. Add in the Lib Dems who allegedly still exist and the 'centre of British politics - looks more crowded than the roads of Birmingham in rush hour.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Another Labour MP gone - Ian Austin.
> 
> EXCLUSIVE: Ian Austin MP latest to quit ‘broken’ Labour Party
> 
> No plan to join The Independent Group.




Oh, oh I've actually heard of this one! 

Home-flipper-expenses-diddler.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> The splitters splitting.


Not really, it's just that the IG is a remain group. They have no purpose if they admit members who aren't fully on board.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> In addition to Tinge we now have two independent Labour MP's - unable to join Tinge because of its lunatic remain position - and a rumored _third _centrist group being funded by Blair/Rowling. Add in the Lib Dems who allegedly still exist and the 'centre of British politics - looks more crowded than the roads of Birmingham in rush hour.


there'll be scuffles in parliament over where these groups sit. more ire will be expended over the seating question than over any of the pressing issues facing the commons


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> In addition to Tinge we now have two independent Labour MP's - unable to join Tinge because of its lunatic remain position - and a rumored _third _centrist group being funded by Blair/Rowling. Add in the Lib Dems who allegedly still exist and the 'centre of British politics - looks more crowded than the roads of Birmingham in rush hour.


Shirley, _the centre cannot hold..._so much dross.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> a rumored _third _centrist group being funded by Blair/Rowling.


this won't happen - they left it too late.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> reroute the thames through the palace of westminster to sweep the filth away



The return of the Great Stink.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> Not really, it's just that the IG is a remain group. They have no purpose if they admit members who aren't fully on board.


Well it was a tongue in cheek remark - but the fact that all these pricks are scrabbling in different directions does mean that these defections don't harm Labour as much as they might, or as much as the SDP split did.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> this won't happen - they left it too late.



Depends on the next period I think - if Tinge get traction I agree. If not I can see them folding into a new vehicle.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> The return of the Great Stink.


i thought the miasma was from the far-right brexiteers parading around whitehall but i think you're right that it emanates from the great unwashed within the palace of westminster


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Maybe they'll all coalesce into one centrist group with a _Leamain/Reave _Brexit position?


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Depends on the next period I think - if Tinge get traction I agree. If not I can see them folding into a new vehicle.



Under a bus?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Austin's resignation of the PLP whip now means that just over 6% of all constituencies returning a Labour MP in June 2017 have lost their preferred party representative.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Austin's resignation of the PLP whip now means that just over 6% of all constituencies returning a Labour MP in June 2017 have lost their preferred party representative.



This won't be the end of it. There is a clear drip plan to keep this running across the news cycle. There is a PLP on Monday after which more will go I think.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Feb 22, 2019)

Wilf said:


> After _Blair's Babes_, somewhere a Sun journalist is writing the headline _Chuka's Chicks._


Brides of Chucky


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> This won't be the end of it. There is a clear drip plan to keep this running across the news cycle. There is a PLP on Monday after which more will go I think.


Yep, and as they go, the anti-democratic nature of the project becomes more and more apparent.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> That would be a bit Monty Python, wouldn't it?
> 
> Are you The Independent Group? No, we are The Real Independent Group.
> 
> Tiggers & Triggers.



They were gonna call it the Provisional Independent Group but they were worried Cameron would want to join.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 22, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> They were gonna call it the Provisional Independent Group but they were worried Cameron would want to join.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> That would be a bit Monty Python, wouldn't it?
> 
> Are you The Independent Group? No, we are The Real Independent Group.
> 
> Tiggers & Triggers.


“If you want to join the TIG, you’ve got to _really_ hate the electorate!”
“I do”.
“Right, you’re in”.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

From their own (non-party) website ("Our values") section...



...but not by-elections...obvs


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> From their own (non-party) website ("Our values") section...
> 
> View attachment 162598
> 
> ...but not by-elections...obvs


It’s the next bit, not the bolded bit, that’s important: “elected representatives decide, deliberate and provide leadership”.

It’s the standard Edmund Burke defence of the rule of “representatives”.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> From their own (non-party) website ("Our values") section...
> 
> View attachment 162598
> 
> ...but not by-elections...obvs



We believe that *our salaries* trump our proclaimed values.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s the next bit, not the bolded bit, that’s important: “elected representatives decide, deliberate and provide leadership”.
> 
> It’s the standard Edmund Burke defence of the rule of “representatives”.


Yep. And feeds into why these people are so keen on the EU and the like.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)




----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s the next bit, not the bolded bit, that’s important: “elected representatives decide, deliberate and provide leadership”.
> 
> It’s the standard Edmund Burke defence of the rule of “representatives”.


Oh yes...all so Burkean when it suits...like not at election times.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Oh yes...all so Burkean when it suits...like not at election times.


bunch of berks


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> View attachment 162601



Christ, if you're that fucking intelligent start with a bigger bit of cardboard


----------



## ska invita (Feb 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> As much as I hate The Sun, they do come up with classic headlines, did anyone see yesterday's?
> 
> The Split Hits The Fan.



I had one in my mind...
LAB RATS IN FAILED EXPERIMENT
[picture of the 7s faces, maybe with little ratty whiskers drawn in for effect]


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 22, 2019)

I'm wondering if the Tinged Group would take that Peterborough MP currently languishing in chokey?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> I'm wondering if the Tinged Group would take that Peterborough MP currently languishing in chokey?


like a shot


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> bunch of berks


Indeed.

But the fact that Austin feels unable to join them does rather illustrate what a _narrow church _of doctrinaire remainers they are. I'm wondering to what extent all this PV froth is just that with them...I reckon they're looking at the longer (post-Brexit) political landscape and seeing themselves as the mirror image of UKIP (maybe UK[non]IP?) plying a consistent and relentless _told you so/hell in a handcart _narrative. How that plays with/against the LD rump is, of course, and interesting one.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Christ, if you're that fucking intelligent start with a bigger bit of cardboard



A high IQ and spatial awareness don’t always sit in the same brain.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 22, 2019)

Kate Hooey could join Austin in the love brexit hate corbyn faction. We'll see


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> A high IQ and spatial awareness don’t always sit in the same brain.



Well, say what you want about that £350 million bollocks, at least it fitted properly on side of the bus.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> Kate Hooey could join Austin in the love brexit hate corbyn faction. We'll see



I think Hooey's a faction unto herself...


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Well, say what you want about that £350 million bollocks, at least it fitted properly on side of the bus.



Done by a craftsperson I imagine, rather than a manager.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 22, 2019)

This is quite funny. After all the rows about deselection votes, Labour MPs are actually deselecting themselves.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> This is quite funny. After all the rows about deselection votes, Labour MPs are actually deselecting themselves.


votes of thanks have been recorded in eight clps to their outgoing mps. one labour party member from streatham declared, 'we're so glad chuka's come to see things our way'


----------



## Argonia (Feb 22, 2019)

The position "I refuse to hold a by-election despite defecting from the party I stood for" whilst at the same time "We should have a second referendum" is so fucking stupid as to simply beggar belief. These bastards should face the electorate and get wiped out the lot of 'em.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 22, 2019)

Argonia said:


> The position "I refuse to hold a by-election despite defecting from the party I stood for" whilst at the same time "We should have a second referendum" is so fucking stupid as to simply beggar belief. These bastards should face the electorate and get wiped out the lot of 'em.



Trouble is there are plenty of remainers who also don't give a toss about democracy or logic so long as they can still bring back 14 gallons of ouzo from their holidays.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 22, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> This is quite funny. After all the rows about deselection votes, Labour MPs are actually deselecting themselves.



I doubt the two phenomena are unrelated.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Done by a craftsperson I imagine, rather than a manager.



It was crafty alright...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 22, 2019)

Argonia said:


> These bastards should face the electorate and get wiped out the lot of 'em.


or a firing squad


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> or a firing squad


it's the south atlantic canal network for the lot of them


----------



## Argonia (Feb 22, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> or a firing squad



They should be forced into the Celebrity Big Brother house for a month only to discover at the end that they all face a firing squad.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Argonia said:


> They should be forced into the Celebrity Big Brother house for a month only to discover at the end that they all face a firing squad hewing canals through solid rock with nothing more than a hammer and chisel throughout the antarctic winter.


corrected for you


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's the south atlantic canal network for the lot of them



Not the more invigorating exercise regime on the Grytviken-Buenos Aires Friendship Bridge?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Not the more invigorating exercise regime on the Grytviken-Buenos Aires Friendship Bridge?


let's see how they make out at navvying before giving them something strenuous to do


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

It shows what a despicable place the Labour party under Corbyn has become. 

Those Labour MPs have demonstrated integrity, something that the Momentum group cannot even spell.

Unless Labour comes back under the control of traditional Labour supporters, the Labour party is finished. 

Corbyn The Vile defied the Whips 426 times, now he has the gross hypocrisy to criticise those who can no longer support the anti-Semitic and bullying piece of shit, the Labour party has become.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> It shows what a despicable place the Labour party under Corbyn has become.
> 
> Those Labour MPs have demonstrated integrity, something that the Momentum group cannot even spell.
> 
> ...


oh, do fuck off


----------



## Santino (Feb 22, 2019)

Nurse, he's out of bed again.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> It shows what a despicable place the Labour party under Corbyn has become.
> 
> Those Labour MPs have demonstrated integrity, something that the Momentum group cannot even spell.
> 
> ...


Lol


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Those Labour MPs have demonstrated integrity,


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

belboid said:


> oh, do fuck off



Really? Is that the totality of your argument? Risible.

BTW ad hom is not, and never will be an argument winner. It is an indicator of paucity and ability of response.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


>



A Corbyn lover!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Those Labour MPs have demonstrated integrity, something that the Momentum group cannot even spell.


I bet they could, you know.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> It shows what a despicable place the Labour party under Corbyn has become.
> 
> Those Labour MPs have demonstrated integrity, something that the Momentum group cannot even spell.
> 
> ...





Sasaferrato said:


> BTW ad hom is not, and never will be an argument winner. It is an indicator of paucity and ability of response.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Unless Labour comes back under the control of traditional Labour supporters, the Labour party is finished.


so the many thousands who voted for corbyn not once but twice to be leader are iyo not traditional labour supporters.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> A Corbyn lover!


----------



## Argonia (Feb 22, 2019)

Looks like Sasaferrato is heading to the South Atlantic canal network too...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> BTW ad hom is not, and never will be an argument winner. It is an indicator of paucity and ability of response.





Sasaferrato said:


> Corbyn The Vile...


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> A Corbyn lover!


Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group

Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

I could go on.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> It shows what a despicable place the Labour party under Corbyn has become.
> 
> Those Labour MPs have demonstrated integrity, something that the Momentum group cannot even spell.
> 
> ...


I'm determined to be positive today so: 'I do quite like your cat picture'.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group
> 
> Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
> 
> ...



And often do.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

True. No one is immune...

That was in response to Bahnhof, the top bit isn't showing for some reason.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Unless Labour comes back under the control of traditional Labour supporters, the Labour party is finished.


Out of (feigned) interest, who do you think is a traditional Labour supporter?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Looks like Sasaferrato is heading to the South Atlantic canal network too...


by no means, he's going to be working on the drainage of falkland sound



a new and prestigious public space will be opened where now the waters of falkland sound are found. Sasaferrato will be equipped with bucket and spade. a number of former people have expressed interest in this exciting project so he won't be on his own for long!


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Colonel LeftBaiter has left his colostomy bag in the microwave again.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Out of (feigned) interest, who do you think is a traditional Labour supporter?



As the interest is feigned, I can't be arsed to answer.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> by no means, he's going to be working on the drainage of falkland sound
> 
> View attachment 162627
> 
> a new and prestigious public space will be opened where now the waters of falkland sound are found. Sasaferrato will be equipped with bucket and spade. a number of former people have expressed interest in this exciting project so he won't be on his own for long!



I've been there.  A goodly number of my colleagues remain there.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> Colonel LeftBaiter has left his colostomy bag in the microwave again.



So glad to see that you find such a major life event so humorous. Loss of a limb must be a real buzz for you.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Really? Is that the totality of your argument? Risible.
> 
> BTW ad hom is not, and never will be an argument winner. It is an indicator of paucity and ability of response.


'fuck off' isn't an ad hominem.

If I'd written 'fuck off you disingenuous tory twat' then _that _would have been an ad hominem.

But 'fuck off' is just 'fuck off'.

Thank you.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> BTW ad hom is not, and never will be an argument winner. It is an indicator of paucity and ability of response.



Errrm isn't that ad hom?

It's also an indicator of: you wouldn't listen so why should we  bother?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> so the many thousands who voted for corbyn not once but twice to be leader are iyo not traditional labour supporters.



No traditional Labour supporter would vote for the cesspit that the party has become.

The arrivistes are not Labour supporters, they are hard left opportunists, who have hijacked the party which could have been of help to many. They have destroyed the prospect of a much needed socialist government.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

belboid said:


> 'fuck off' isn't an ad hominem.
> 
> If I'd written 'fuck off you disingenuous tory twat' then _that _would have been an ad hominem.
> 
> ...



You fail to grasp that it is the insulted who judges the insult, not the person doing the insulting.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> No traditional Labour supporter would vote for the cesspit that the party has become.
> 
> The arrivistes are not Labour supporters, they are hard left opportunists, who have hijacked the party which could have been of help to many. They have destroyed the prospect of a much needed socialist government.


Whole lot of people suddenly became 18 between 2015 and 2017 then. About 10-12 million. Do you think that this is what happened?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> You fail to grasp that it is the insulted who judges the insult, not the person doing the insulting.



Certainly on Twitter that is true.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> No traditional Labour supporter would vote for the cesspit that the party has become.
> 
> The arrivistes are not Labour supporters, they are hard left opportunists, who have hijacked the party which could have been of help to many. They have destroyed the prospect of a much needed socialist government.


no they haven't, being as labour under wilson, callaghan, foot, kinnock, smith, blair, brown, miliband and indeed corbyn has never offered such a prospect.


----------



## Sue (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> They have destroyed the prospect of a much needed socialist government.



Wait, what?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 22, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Whole lot of people suddenly became 18 between 2015 and 2017 then. About 10-12 million. Do you think that this is what happened?



I knew this age self-identification thing would open a can of worms.


----------



## 03gills (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> No traditional Labour supporter would vote for the cesspit that the party has become.
> 
> The arrivistes are not Labour supporters, they are hard left opportunists, who have hijacked the party which could have been of help to many. They have destroyed the prospect of a much needed socialist government.



Oh, _fuck off_.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> no they haven't, being as labour under wilson, callaghan, foot, kinnock, smith, blair, brown, miliband and indeed corbyn has never offered such a prospect.



Whatever.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> You fail to grasp that it is the insulted who judges the insult, not the person doing the insulting.


Most words and phrases have meanings that can be easily looked up by anyone to see if they are being used appropriately.  It's not for you to decide.  And that goes for 'integrity' as well as 'ad hominem'


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> No traditional Labour supporter would vote for the cesspit that the party has become.
> 
> The arrivistes are not Labour supporters, they are hard left opportunists, who have hijacked the party which could have been of help to many. They have destroyed the prospect of a much needed socialist government.



I think you know fuck all about traditional Labour supproters. There are some who do not like Corbyn or the policy direction, but they are a subset of the group, not the entire base.

I struggle to understand what the idea of a socialist government is to you, since anything to the left of the right seems to be written off as 'hard left' to you, you blowhard know nothing.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

_a much needed socialist government. _


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Sue said:


> Wait, what?



We need a period of re-balance. 

The current government are beyond deplorable, especially with regard to the destruction of the welfare system.

A socialist government is required to bring the 'pendulum' back to the center especially with regard to welfare and employment law.

Labour is so toxic at the moment, that they would be unlikely to win an election were one to be called tomorrow, which given the state of the current government is beyond astonishing.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> _a much needed socialist government. _



Yes.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> I think you know fuck all about traditional Labour supproters. There are some who do not like Corbyn or the policy direction, but they are a subset of the group, not the entire base.
> 
> I struggle to understand what the idea of a socialist government is to you, since anything to the left of the right seems to be written off as 'hard left' to you, you blowhard know nothing.



This from someone who feels that a person with a colostomy is an object of mirth.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

How would a socialist government be achieved by Labour, except via a socialist leadership? I don't understand. Which other current in the parliamentary party do you imagine would deliver anything like a socialist manifesto?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

03gills said:


> Oh, _fuck off_.



So eloquent.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> a much needed socialist government.


Can you outline some of the things that would qualify this hypothetical government as socialist?


----------



## Sue (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> We need a period of re-balance.
> 
> The current government are beyond deplorable, especially with regard to the destruction of the welfare system.
> 
> ...



And the thread takes a (completely unexpected) Invasion of the Bodysnatchers/V-esque turn...


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> This from someone who feels that a person with a colostomy is an object of mirth.



The humour was supposed to stem from the vision of a colostomy bag exploding in a microwave, and the equating of this with a forum thread being stunk up with your shit. It probably wasnt a very good attempt, but it certainly didnt resemble a joke about colostomy bag users in general.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> by no means, he's going to be working on the drainage of falkland sound
> 
> View attachment 162627
> 
> a new and prestigious public space will be opened where now the waters of falkland sound are found. Sasaferrato will be equipped with bucket and spade. a number of former people have expressed interest in this exciting project so he won't be on his own for long!



this map better illustrates the plan, to erect barriers through falkland sound by white rock bay in the north and from speedwell island to East Falkland in the east and across to West Falkland via several small islets in the sound. once these walls are built, the water between them will be removed at first by hand and then, when funds are available, perhaps with footpumps.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Can you outline some of the things that would qualify this hypothetical government as socialist?



Tony Blair wearing a beret perhaps.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Can you outline some of the things that would qualify this hypothetical government as socialist?


tony blair wearing a noose perhaps


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

I bet Sasaferrato was a begruding fan of Tony Benn back in the day. Well, probably not.

But I do hope he feels free to pick some past Labour figures, leaders or PMs that he considers to be the vaguely acceptable face of socialism.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> How would a socialist government be achieved by Labour, except via a socialist leadership? I don't understand. Which other current in the parliamentary party do you imagine would deliver anything like a socialist manifesto?



Labour, with the anti-Semites and bullies driven out. Labour post Corbyn.

I find it hard to understand why Tom Watson has remained where he is, he is the polar opposite of Corbyn. 

Incidentally, Labour are not the only party to suffer from the arriviste phenomenon, it is happening in the Conservative party also, attempting to move the party in the direction of fascism.

I was fairly content with the way things were being done, the current government (apart from being paralysed rabbits in the headlights over Brexit) have degraded the welfare system to the point where it is no longer fit for purpose. 

Labour should be in a commanding position in the polls, but they are not. You have to ask yourself why not.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> by no means, he's going to be working on the drainage of falkland sound
> 
> View attachment 162627
> 
> a new and prestigious public space will be opened where now the waters of falkland sound are found. Sasaferrato will be equipped with bucket and spade. a number of former people have expressed interest in this exciting project so he won't be on his own for long!



A little bit tasteless that, seeing as what Sas went through in Falkland waters.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> the vaguely acceptable face of socialism.


only in order to pull the pendulum back a little bit to where it _should _be, of course.  Not do anything like, you know, actually be socialist.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Labour, with the anti-Semites and bullies driven out. Labour post Corbyn.
> 
> I find it hard to understand why Tom Watson has remained where he is, he is the polar opposite of Corbyn.
> 
> ...


Rothschilds? Stalin?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> I bet Sasaferrato was a begruding fan of Tony Benn back in the day. Well, probably not.
> 
> But I do hope he feels free to pick some past Labour figures, leaders or PMs that he considers to be the vaguely acceptable face of socialism.



Not at all begrudging. I had great admiration for Tony Benn. A man of huge integrity. 

You don't have to be a supporter of a particular party to recognise the stature of some of its members.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> We need a period of re-balance.
> 
> The current government are beyond deplorable, especially with regard to the destruction of the welfare system.
> 
> ...



I'm deeply confused. So the toxicity of the current Labour leadership - which mainly results from the claim (which in any case is wrong on several levels) that they're socialist and therefore bad - is unhelpfully preventing Labour from providing the socialism that this country badly needs to implement in order that centrism can be restored?


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Labour, with the anti-Semites and bullies driven out. Labour post Corbyn.
> 
> I find it hard to understand why Tom Watson has remained where he is, he is the polar opposite of Corbyn.
> 
> ...


See the bit you put in parentheses


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Labour, with the anti-Semites and bullies driven out. Labour post Corbyn.
> 
> I find it hard to understand why Tom Watson has remained where he is, he is the polar opposite of Corbyn.
> 
> ...



Which Labour MPs would deliver a socialist manifesto though, other than the members of the Campaign Group who're currently in charge - the most socialist current in the parliamentary Labour Party, who's manifesto in 2017 was still a long way off socialism? 


> Labour should be in a commanding position in the polls, but they are not. You have to ask yourself why not.



this is a question that's been asked, discussed and answered on multiple politics threads over the last couple of years, as you'd know if you bothered reading any of them.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

Ah, I get it. What we need is the socialism bus. But socialism is the depot. No-one actually wants to go to the depot - that would be stupid. We have to get off the socialism bus before we get to socialism.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

belboid said:


> only in order to pull the pendulum back a little bit to where it _should _be, of course.  Not do anything like, you know, actually be socialist.



Where it should be is in balance.

A decent welfare system that does not belittle and dehumanise recipients.

Employment law that recognises the needs of employees as well as employers.

Fair taxation, where people like Amazon etc pay their dues.

A national house building program.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Where it should be is in balance.
> 
> A decent welfare system that does not belittle and dehumanise recipients.
> 
> ...


this sounds like the 2017 Labour manifesto tbf


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Not at all begrudging. I had great admiration for Tony Benn. A man of huge integrity.
> 
> You don't have to be a supporter of a particular party to recognise the stature of some of its members.



I'm glad you respected him because it means I can move on to a follow up question:

Even if you respected him, couldnt you make exactly the same claim about him as about Corbyn, if we were in a parallel universe where Benn was still alive and younger and leader of the party? That he would cost them votes and thus stop Labour forming a government.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> Which Labour MPs would deliver a socialist manifesto though, other than the members of the Campaign Group who're currently in charge - the most socialist current in the parliamentary Labour Party, who's manifesto in 2017 was still a long way off socialism?
> 
> 
> this is a question that's been asked, discussed and answered on multiple politics threads over the last couple of years, as you'd know if you bothered reading any of them.



Well, quite, but as now, there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.

I well remember in the Blair years Urban's assertion that the Blair government was not a socialist government, yet Labour supporters voted for him. Labour voters that will not apparently vote for Corbyn.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> this sounds like the 2017 Labour manifesto tbf


The one that trad long term members like corbyn pushed through and that got 3 million more votes (12 million) than the previous election - at a time when literally no one would or did vote for them.

Thing about kids is that they think history started when they started to take an interest. Seems to be about late 2015 for this one.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Well, quite, but as now, there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.
> 
> I well remember in the Blair years Urban's assertion that the Blair government was not a socialist government, yet Labour supporters voted for him. Labour voters that will not apparently vote for Corbyn.


Look at _the actual voting figures_ for the love of all that fucking good in this world. Tell us what they show.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

It's almost as though for some of these Blairite cling-ons the so-called 'bubble' of social media has actually blown apart their own personal, delusion bubble and, exposed to what voters, public and members really think of their useless tenure of seats...they just can't cope...their poor little circuits have blown.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Well, quite, but as now, there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.
> 
> I well remember in the Blair years Urban's assertion that the Blair government was not a socialist government, yet Labour supporters voted for him. Labour voters that will not apparently vote for Corbyn.



That's not just Blair's assertion: 'the Blair government was not a socialist government' is rock-solid, incontrovertible fact, unless you know nothing about socialism, or the Blair government, or history or politics in general.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> It's almost as though for some of these Blairite cling-ons the so-called 'bubble' of social media has actually blown apart their own personal, delusion bubble and, exposed to what voters, public and members really think of their useless tenure of seats...they just can't cope...their poor little circuits have blown.



They were spoilt by the insulation of the TV era, a long and narrowing era that sat between the golden age of heckling at public meetings and the heckling 2.0 of the interwebs.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> I'm glad you respected him because it means I can move on to a follow up question:
> 
> Even if you respected him, couldnt you make exactly the same claim about him as about Corbyn, if we were in a parallel universe where Benn was still alive and younger and leader of the party? That he would cost them votes and thus stop Labour forming a government.



Tony Benn was much more nuanced (and intelligent) than Corbyn. Tony Benn's policies would have been set out to be acceptable.

Thankfully, the bampots of Momentum have tipped their hand. They haven't realised that if you get yourselves elected with a decent majority, then you can implement your policies. Not thankfully, they have put paid to a Labour government under Corbyn.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Well, quite, but as now, there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer.
> 
> I well remember in the Blair years Urban's assertion that the Blair government was not a socialist government, yet Labour supporters voted for him. Labour voters that will not apparently vote for Corbyn.


Corbyn's Labour Party got more votes than Blair's did in 2001 or 2005, and was only 800,00 or so behind that 1997 high water mark. So, it seems you're wrong.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> That's not just Blair's assertion: 'the Blair government was not a socialist government' is rock-solid, incontrovertible fact, unless you know nothing about socialism, or the Blair government, or history or politics in general.



And which way the Sun told people to vote.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> A little bit tasteless that, seeing as what Sas went through in Falkland waters.


maybe so, and if it offends i apologise


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> this sounds like the 2017 Labour manifesto tbf



I have always been in favour of the ordinary person having a good standard of living. Disposable income drives the economy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Tony Benn was much more nuanced (and intelligent) than Corbyn. Tony Benn's policies would have been set out to be acceptable.
> 
> Thankfully, the bampots of Momentum have tipped their hand. They haven't realised that if you get yourselves elected with a decent majority, then you can implement your policies. Not thankfully, they have put paid to a Labour government under Corbyn.


bampots - i like the word and will have to use it more in conversation


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

In 1997 - 13.5 million people voted in a right wing labout govt. All of them socialists

In 2017 - 12.8 million people voted for a left-wing labour party led by a socialist - up by 3.5 million. None of these voters were socialists.

This is the world this person lives in.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> And which way the Sun told people to vote.



Leave those commie bastards out of it!


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> I have always been in favour of the ordinary person having a good standard of living. Disposable income drives the economy.


You should vote Labour then, they're the only party who're offering anything like the programme you've outlined above.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> maybe so, and if it offends i apologise



You're fine. I appreciated that there was no offence intended.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> You should vote Labour then, they're the only party who're offering anything like the programme you've outlined above.



I have done in the past, and may do again. Post Corbyn though.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> I have done in the past, and may do again. Post Corbyn though.


...and that, children, is how it's done.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> I have done in the past, and may do again. Post Corbyn though.


After the things you want have been removed  from the manifesto. Genius.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> I have done in the past, and may do again. Post Corbyn though.


Post-Corbyn there's a good chance they won't be offering the manifesto you say you want.


----------



## Sue (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> ...and that, children, is how it's done.


I've no idea what's going on. This surely is the thread that keeps on giving.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

belboid said:


> Corbyn's Labour Party got more votes than Blair's did in 2001 or 2005, and was only 800,00 or so behind that 1997 high water mark. So, it seems you're wrong.



Will.  

Labour 4% behind at present.

May must be having Momentum blessed on a daily basis. The utter shambles that is in government should be in an 'out for a generation' scenario, but they are not.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Will.
> 
> Labour 4% behind at present.
> 
> May must be having Momentum blessed on a daily basis. The utter shambles that is in government should be in an 'out for a generation' scenario, but they are not.


What were they behind in both actual election result and in polling when corbyn took over? There has been a massive rise in labour support in both of these. Real life doesn't support what you are saying. Which is, i suppose why you live in this fantasy world.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Sue said:


> I've no idea what's going on. This surely is the thread that keeps on giving.



Are you old enough to remember what was termed 'Paternal Conservatism'? That espoused my personal philosophy. 

I'm as alienated from the party that I supported for too long, as many Labour people feel about the party under Corbyn.

One begins to realise that 'living in interesting times' is indeed a curse.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

If you must highlight some of your posts in a colour, please make it the appropriate green, sas.


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 22, 2019)

It always makes me chuckle when people refer to the Corbyn project as "hard left". Hard left as in well to the right of Attlee, Wilson, Callaghan and Foot... and none of them were great shakes either. Rather than socialist, in any meaningful sense, traditional Labour has always been a left wing of capital style organisation - aside from when it was just the Tory Party Mk II in its "New Labour" period of course.


----------



## Sue (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Are you old enough to remember what was termed 'Paternal Conservatism'? That espoused my personal philosophy.
> 
> I'm as alienated from the party that I supported for too long, as many Labour people feel about the party under Corbyn.
> 
> One begins to realise that 'living in interesting times' is indeed a curse.


So you've gone from Tory to Labour to Socialist? Communist by Christmas I reckon.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Tony Benn was much more nuanced (and intelligent) than Corbyn. Tony Benn's policies would have been set out to be acceptable.



Its hard to judge the latter point because of the different eras. But surely one of the phenomenon we see today with Labour is due to changes in what was considered 'acceptable' over the last 40 years. In terms of mainstream political discourse, everything got very narrow, and even small variations from what was misleadingly called the centre ground were condemned as extreme and were not given room to live in the mainstream acceptable political landscape. But the way the world has moved this century has shaken things up again, especially after the banking crisis and austerity. We see some genuine extremes emerging, but also all sorts of positions that lie in between those extremes and the old centre ground. Those who still cling to that centre will cry 'extreme!' at all of them, but their narrowing was also extreme, and their reactions to the loss of this tight control should not be confused with those who do not fear these in-between territories but only the genuine extremes.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Are you old enough to remember what was termed *'Paternal Conservatism'? That espoused my personal philosophy. *



That's a genuinely sad post.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

Sue said:


> So you've gone from Tory to Labour to Socialist? Communist by Christmas I reckon.


This is a perfect example of the 'politics as identity' thing we were talking about last night tbh. Nothing to do with actual politics at all.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> Post-Corbyn there's a good chance they won't be offering the manifesto you say you want.



Perhaps not, but surely the worst excesses of the current government will be overturned?

It all comes down to money. Start taxing Amazon, Starbucks, Costa etc properly, then there is considerably more money. As a bonus they may fuck off if properly taxed, leaving the market to home grown companies.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sue said:


> So you've gone from Tory to Labour to Socialist? Communist by Christmas I reckon.


He thinks the tories are fascists, that labour are communists, that the SNP are nazis (each one posted and argued at juvenile level by him on here). So god knows what he thinks communists are - US style libertarians maybe?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> That's a genuinely sad post.



Really? A genuine desire to improve the lot of the people of the country? I appreciate that it is not the politics of today, and probably shouldn't be, under that title, but the principles remain valid.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Will.
> 
> Labour 4% behind at present.
> 
> May must be having Momentum blessed on a daily basis. The utter shambles that is in government should be in an 'out for a generation' scenario, but they are not.


Damn, if only Chris 'Integrity' Leslie had stayed shadow chancellor.  Then they could have been promising to retain 90% of austerity and 98% of welfare cuts and to throw money at property speculators!  I bet they'd have been well ahead in the polls if that were the case.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> If you must highlight some of your posts in a colour, please make it the appropriate green, sas.



They are in green.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> They are in green.


Well do it in the right font then. You know exactly what i mean.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Really? A genuine desire to improve the lot of the people of the country? I appreciate that it is not the politics of today, and probably shouldn't be, under that title, but the principles remain valid.


Stating that your 'political philosophy' comprises being infantilised by the party of capital and wealth defence is really sad, yes.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Really? A genuine desire to improve the lot of the people of the country? I appreciate that it is not the politics of today, and probably shouldn't be, under that title, but the principles remain valid.



Some of what was angrily attacked as 'the nanny state' during the Blair era might have gone under the banner of paternalism instead in a previous era, do you think?


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 22, 2019)

Sue said:


> So you've gone from Tory to Labour to Socialist? Communist by Christmas I reckon.




 Judging by this leaked photo, Sasaferrato is sorting out his Christmas early


----------



## 8ball (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Really? A genuine desire to improve the lot of the people of the country? I appreciate that it is not the politics of today, and probably shouldn't be, under that title, but the principles remain valid.



My issue with it is that it is patronising (in both senses) and doesn’t acknowledge power relations or their shaky legitimacy, but the idea that people are connected to each other and that society’s development is hindered rather than helped by Messianic figures and simplistic utopias is something I think quite a few people on here would agree with.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> Some of what was angrily attacked as 'the nanny state' during the Blair era might have gone under the banner of paternalism instead in a previous era, do you think?



Yes it may well have.

Of course, the current attack on welfare started under Blair, subsequently continued viciously by the current government.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Stating that your 'political philosophy' comprises being infantilised by the party of capital and wealth defence is really sad, yes.



Well, the results were better than anything that has occurred in the last few decades. I take your point though.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

8ball said:


> My issue with it is that it is patronising (in both senses) and doesn’t acknowledge power relations or their shaky legitimacy, but the idea that people are connected to each other and that society’s development is hindered rather than helped by Messianic figures and simplistic utopias is something I think quite a few people on here would agree with.



See #1794.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> See #1794.



Which results are you talking about exactly?  And when (1945-1979, perhaps)?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Sue said:


> So you've gone from Tory to Labour to Socialist? Communist by Christmas I reckon.



I haven't actually moved at all, in terms of belief. 

Other things change though, and leave you politically homeless. You have to decide which is closest to your view, and vote for them.

I used to vote for Labour in the Council elections, Conservative in the General Elections and Labour in the Scottish Parliamentary elections. 

Now... I don't think I'll be voting at all. For the first time in 45 years.


----------



## Sue (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> I haven't actually moved at all, in terms of belief.
> 
> Other things change though, and leave you politically homeless. You have to decide which is closest to your view, and vote for them.
> 
> ...


So you're not really up for socialism then because socialism hasn't changed.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

8ball said:


> Which results are you talking about exactly?  And when (1945-1979, perhaps)?



Between 1951 and 1955, under the Conservatives an average of over 188,000 social housing units were built. A record that has never been beaten by any other government.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Back later.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> I haven't actually moved at all, in terms of belief.
> 
> Other things change though, and leave you politically homeless. You have to decide which is closest to your view, and vote for them.
> 
> ...


The world revolves around me. Classic teenager.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Between 1951 and 1955, under the Conservatives an average of over 188,000 social housing units were built. A record that has never been beaten by any other government.



Things may have drifted underneath you, but I think the media would call this kind of talk "adolescent Corbynite madness".


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Tony Benn was much more nuanced (and intelligent) than Corbyn. Tony Benn's policies would have been set out to be acceptable.





elbows said:


> Its hard to judge the latter point because of the different eras. But surely one of the phenomenon we see today with Labour is due to changes in what was considered 'acceptable' over the last 40 years. In terms of mainstream political discourse, everything got very narrow, and even small variations from what was misleadingly called the centre ground were condemned as extreme and were not given room to live in the mainstream acceptable political landscape.



Oops I started to bore myself and forgot to finish the point I was trying to make there.

There are all sorts of differences between Benn and Corbyn, but one of the similarities would be some of the language used to attack them. Regardless of how left or socialist any of the policies either of them went on about actually were, routine, well worn attacks often involve language such as hard left and socialist as dirty scare words.

Given that Benn was subject to such complaints during his peak times in office (regardless of the reality), I struggle to imagine him avoiding similar stuff in this era, given what I described above as starting from an incredibly narrow ground in regards what constitutes the 'sensible, non-extreme centre'. And I dont think there are really that many ways to dress policies involving renationalising things up as being something that those who dont like that sort of thing would consider more benign.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

The only ‘hard left’ I’ve witnessed at any Labour Party meeting was when one constituent’s fist connected with elected mayor Martin Winter’s chin as we were leaving.
Mistake though, Mayor Winter was quite a tough ex rugby league player.


----------



## chilango (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> A Corbyn lover!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 22, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> The only ‘hard left’ I’ve witnessed at any Labour Party meeting was when one constituent’s fist connected with elected mayor Martin Winter’s chin as we were leaving.
> Mistake though, Mayor Winter was quite a tough ex rugby league player.



Let's never forget John Prescott's hard left punch.

Always worth another watch...


----------



## ska invita (Feb 22, 2019)

Vince Cable confirms that there will be weekly meetings between LD and TINGE, and was prepared to go as far as to say there will be some kind of "arrangement" around who will stand in which seats. Surely a matter of time before that relationship becomes more formalised, under one, possibly new name.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

Quote from that man of integrity, Ian Austin:

“the Labour leadership should embrace tough policies including a ban on benefit payments to new migrants who have paid nothing into the system, fingerprinting at the Calais border, and up-front payments by foreigners for NHS care”.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Let's never forget John Prescott's hard left punch.
> 
> Always worth another watch...




I wasn’t four feet away from that one though.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

Ian Austin ‘The Six Bob Man’.


----------



## Argonia (Feb 22, 2019)

Austin has a majority of 22. I bet you my marzipan hat that he won't get 1000 at the next election.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 22, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Austin has a majority of 22. I bet you my marzipan hat that he won't get 1000 at the next election.



Hattenburg cake?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 22, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Austin has a majority of 22. I bet you my marzipan hat that he won't get 1000 at the next election.



Probably more than enough to hand the seat to the Tories.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Probably more than enough to hand the seat to the Tories.


You never know, now there'll be a candidate that Labour folk can vote for.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Feb 22, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Vince Cable confirms that there will be weekly meetings between LD and TINGE, and was prepared to go as far as to say there will be some kind of "arrangement" around who will stand in which seats. Surely a matter of time before that relationship becomes more formalised, under one, possibly new name.



Shameful


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> votes of thanks have been recorded in eight clps to their outgoing mps. one labour party member from streatham declared, 'we're so glad chuka's come to see things our way'



Fucking bootlickers


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Fucking bootlickers


at the end of each meeting the mp was burned in effigy


----------



## tim (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Labour, with the anti-Semites and bullies driven out. Labour post Corbyn.
> 
> I find it hard to understand why Tom Watson has remained where he is, he is the polar opposite of Corbyn.
> 
> ...



I find it hard to understand why anyone would expect Tom Watson to act with integrity.


----------



## gentlegreen (Feb 22, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Vince Cable confirms that there will be weekly meetings between LD and TINGE, and was prepared to go as far as to say there will be some kind of "arrangement" around who will stand in which seats. Surely a matter of time before that relationship becomes more formalised, under one, possibly new name.


Gawd I hope not - there appears to be much finely-grained natural rock or soil material in the pedestrian department.


----------



## belboid (Feb 22, 2019)

tim said:


> I find it hard to understand why anyone would expect Tom Watson to act with integrity.


what, the man who used parliamentary privilege to name high profile child abusers who...uhh, hadn't abused any children at all, it turned out. That Tom Watson?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

A quick look through the last twenty or so posts on the thread makes me wonder two things.

Firstly, is there any Labour politician that satisfies the posters of U75, they all seem to have feet of clay.

Secondly, those who are condemning the politicians, would they be completely comfortable for their full life story to be laid out for public reading?

Fuck knows why anyone would want to be a politician, it is putting your life into the spotlight.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

You're the one who's _politically homeless_ dude.


----------



## killer b (Feb 22, 2019)

You've been saying all politicians are shit for 15 years. The gall of it.


----------



## kenny g (Feb 22, 2019)

Anna Soubry  comes across like David Ike.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> A quick look through the last twenty or so posts on the thread makes me wonder two things.
> 
> Firstly, is there any Labour politician that satisfies the posters of U75, they all seem to have feet of clay.
> 
> ...


Why don’t you stand? Start a party and stand for election. You’ve got ideas.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 22, 2019)

The odds are against them, but these MPs could yet change our politics | Jonathan Freedland

Surprised to see a bunch of vacuous knobheads spouting empty centrist platitudes have managed to get Jonathan Freedland onside.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> A quick look through the last twenty or so posts on the thread makes me wonder two things.
> 
> Firstly, is there any Labour politician that satisfies the posters of U75, they all seem to have feet of clay.
> 
> ...


I am very satisfied by Tony Benn and James Callaghan


----------



## two sheds (Feb 22, 2019)

Isn't 'satisfied by' different from 'satisfied with'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

two sheds said:


> Isn't 'satisfied by' different from 'satisfied with'?


Only to an überpedant


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 22, 2019)

two sheds said:


> Isn't 'satisfied by' different from 'satisfied with'?


Yes. And pickmans is very careful with language, so I think we can assume he means what he says.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

two sheds said:


> Isn't 'satisfied by' different from 'satisfied with'?


I am very satisfied with the recent performances of Callaghan and Tony Benn (and John Smith for that matter) if you're going to be pedantic above and beyond the call of duty


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes. And pickmans is very careful with language, so I think we can assume he means what he says.


Any dead labour politician has been more satisfactory since their demise than any of their living colleagues


----------



## two sheds (Feb 22, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes. And pickmans is very careful with language, so I think we can assume he means what he says.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Only to an überpedant



Indeed.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2019)

Dunno who he is...but I think his grimace speaks for many.

The absolute state of them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Dunno who he is...but I think his grimace speaks for many.
> 
> The absolute state of them.
> 
> View attachment 162671


They were in the spoons on whitehall at 08.30


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 22, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> They were in the spoons on whitehall at 08.30



Late then?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 22, 2019)

"Asked about the deputy leader's comments, Mr Corbyn said: "Of course I disagree with him, because I do not wish to be in a party where there's any bullying. I'll be speaking to Tom Watson in the very near future to talk about that."

Jeremy Corbyn dismisses deputy leader's comments as he denies allegations of bullying


----------



## tim (Feb 22, 2019)

kenny g said:


> Anna Soubry  comes across like David Ike.


St Terry of Eurovision famously said "They're not laughing with you David. They're laughing at you". Sadly, with Soubry there isn't even the consolation of her being amusing.


----------



## chilango (Feb 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> You're the one who's _politically homeless_ dude.



He's not the only one


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Dunno who he is...but I think his grimace speaks for many.
> 
> The absolute state of them.
> 
> View attachment 162671



Smith seems somehow uhappy to be sat next to Umunna, for reasons we can only speculate on.


----------



## chilango (Feb 23, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Firstly, is there any Labour politician that satisfies the posters of U75, .
> .



No. I can't, and won't, speak for "the posters of U75", but for me? No, no there isn't. 

But then, like a number on here I've been consistently opposed to the Labour Party - _from the Left _- for my entire time here.

That doesn't mean that what happens inside the Party isn't if interest and impactt to me though.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 23, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Why don’t you stand? Start a party and stand for election. You’ve got ideas.



Three reasons why not.

Too old.
Too idle.
Too few like minded people.


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2019)

chilango said:


> He's not the only one


did the greens not work out for you?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 23, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Too few like minded people


Small mercies.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

Sasaferrato said:


> Too few like minded people.



Victorians are getting harder and harder to come by


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2019)

I dunno, I think the 'would like social democratic policies but would never be prepared to vote for them' constituency is very large.


----------



## agricola (Feb 23, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Victorians are getting harder and harder to come by



Australia is the only economic source of them now.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Feb 23, 2019)

agricola said:


> Australia is the only economic source of them now.


----------



## chilango (Feb 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> did the greens not work out for you?





Well remembered! They most certainly did nit..


----------



## newbie (Feb 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> I dunno, I think the 'would like social democratic policies but would never be prepared to vote for them' constituency is very large.


not as large as 'would like social democratic policies but will always vote for lower taxes'.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 23, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

Badgers said:


> View attachment 162723


Yeh and they're all one over the eight


----------



## tim (Feb 23, 2019)

Churchill ratted twice, detecting from the Tories to join the Liberals and then leaving the Liberals to rejoin the Tories.

He was a cunt too.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 23, 2019)

Wonder how many of them will get re-elected come the next time they face their local voters?


----------



## Argonia (Feb 23, 2019)

weltweit said:


> Wonder how many of them will get re-elected come the next time they face their local voters?



Not one of the fuckers.


----------



## tim (Feb 23, 2019)

weltweit said:


> Wonder how many of them will get re-elected come the next time they face their local voters?




Very few of those who joined the SDP got re-elected back in the 80's. Their hope, presumably, is to get the Liberals to stand down in their seats, but given the latter's recent performance that is unliy to give them the boost they need.


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 23, 2019)

tim said:


> Churchill ratted twice, detecting from the Tories to join the Liberals and then leaving the Liberals to rejoin the Tories.
> 
> He was a cunt too.



 In my head I like to imagine this.
Lord Halifax to Neville Chamberlain.
I’ve only ever known two cunts and Churchill is both of them.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 23, 2019)

They must have done some kind of calculation, I can't see them making this move as a knowingly way of losing their lucrative incomes and position in society. 

They must, in however misguided a way, think they can be re-elected.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 23, 2019)

chilango said:


> He's not the only one



Can I interest you in a copy of our paper comrade?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 23, 2019)

weltweit said:


> They must have done some kind of calculation, I can't see them making this move as a knowingly way of losing their lucrative incomes and position in society.
> 
> They must, in however misguided a way, think they can be re-elected.



Or rewarded.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 23, 2019)

Dont know if its been mentioned but Plimico Plumbers are funding The Independent Group


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 23, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Dont know if its been mentioned but Plimico Plumbers are funding The Independent Group


No way? Really?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 23, 2019)

Donors abandon old parties to back Independent Group


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 23, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Donors abandon old parties to back Independent Group


Cheers. I can’t read very far on that because subscription, but I trust your word. It’s pretty funny though.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 23, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheers. I can’t read very far on that because subscription, but I trust your word. It’s pretty funny though.



Here you go Danny

----
Donors plan to desert other political parties and back the Independent Group days after it was created.

The band of 11 MPs have already raised tens of thousands of pounds from members of the public, using an online crowdfunder, after forming the group on Monday.

In an interview with _The Times_ Chuka Umunna, the MP for Streatham and a former shadow business secretary, said that the group would accept funding from wealthy individuals, adding: “We are not against successful people.”

The group has said that it wants to accept only donations that would meet the legal requirements of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. Because it has not yet become a political party it is not obliged to do so. Money from individuals would be declared if accepted, Mr Umunna said.

Under the law, political parties have to register donations in excess of £7,500. The Independent Group has said that it will publish accounts every three months, detailing all donations above £500. Mr Umunna said he hoped that the Independent Group would evolve into a fully fledged political party by the end of the year.


Charlie Mullins, the millionaire behind Pimlico Plumbers, the London company he founded in 1979, switched allegiance from the Tories and donated £25,000 to the Liberal Democrats last year as part of his opposition to Brexit. He also had a stall at the party’s conference for his campaign to stop Brexit. He was now intending to abandon the Lib Dems and support the Independent Group, he told _The Times_, but declined to say how much he was willing to hand over to Mr Umunna and his colleagues.

Mr Mullins said that supporting the new group was the best way to achieve another Brexit referendum and he hoped that they could attract more potential defectors, including Justine Greening, the former education secretary. “I think the Independent Group are much like the Liberal Democrats in supporting another referendum. But I feel they could be more successful than the Lib Dems. And I’m going to put my money where the best chance of success is,” he said.

“I believe that any money I put in to the Independent Group will be money well spent because I think Theresa May is destroying the economy. This is about our children and grandchildren and the future of this country.”

Mr Mullins added that he was not the only disgruntled former Conservative donor worried about the impact that Brexit would have on business and said he was “sure that others will be donating”.

Mr Umunna told _The Times_: “We’ve already raised tens of thousands of pounds from several thousand small donors, which is extraordinary. Our website crashed, because at one point 700,000 people were trying to visit it at the same time.” Wealthy individuals had also offered large donations, he said.

Mr Umunna’s register of interests shows that he received a £10,000 donation from Farr Vintners, a fine wine wholesaler, at the end of January. A spokesman for the company said that the money was unrelated to the Independent Group and that it had not known that Mr Umunna was about to resign from Labour. The one-off donation was not party political and was designed to pay for a researcher in Mr Umunna’s office to help to campaign against Brexit, he added.

A poll commissioned by the think tank Progressive Centre UK, at which Mr Umunna is chairman of the advisory board, found that 41 per cent of those asked said they might vote for a new party. Opinium Research polled 2,001 adults, between February 15 and 18.

A spokesman for the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, which gave the Lib Dems £301,740 in June, said its board had not discussed the Independent Group.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 23, 2019)

"Donors abandon old parties to back Independent Group", yet they only mention one single donor.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 23, 2019)

It’d be an attractive proposition for Tory supporters, they’d get more bang for their buck throwing money at Chuka’s chumps and splitting the labour vote than throwing it directly at the tories, who’d only blow it on ‘how to stand awkwardly’ lessons.


----------



## A380 (Feb 23, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Any dead labour politician has been more satisfactory since their demise than any of their living colleagues


You won’t be saying that when the kelp harvest is 5 days and 170 metric tonnes behind schedule.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

A380 said:


> You won’t be saying that when the kelp harvest is 5 days and 170 metric tonnes behind schedule.


Won't be me going hungry either


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> "Donors abandon old parties to back Independent Group", yet they only mention one single donor.


Auld Mr Donors?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> It’d be an attractive proposition for Tory supporters, they’d get more bang for their buck throwing money at Chuka’s chumps and splitting the labour vote than throwing it directly at the tories, who’d only blow it on ‘how to stand awkwardly’ lessons.



TInGe have now said they won't vote to unseat May in a VONC, so apparently their only reason for existing is to split the Labour vote and help ensure tory rule forever.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 23, 2019)

For all the criticisms I have of Corbyn and Labour you see this and you have to give them a bit of credit.


> Speaking at a rally in Anna Soubry’s Broxtowe constituency, he said he was sad some MPs had left, but that he had no intention of changing the policies that delivered the biggest increase in the Labour vote since 1945.





> He went on to criticise the voting records of Soubry and the former Labour MP Chris Leslie. “When the media talk about the bravery of those who walked away, Anna Soubry voted for austerity and said it was a good thing. Almost immediately after leaving Chris Leslie tells us that we should not be ending university fees ... and we should be cutting corporation tax and increasing the burden on others,” he said.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 23, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> TInGe have now said they won't vote to unseat May in a VONC, so apparently their only reason for existing is to split the Labour vote and help ensure tory rule forever.


Think i heard/read somewhere that they are looking forward to getting in a confidence & supply arrangement with the Tories, so that fits in with that


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> TInGe have now said they won't vote to unseat May in a VONC, so apparently their only reason for existing is to split the Labour vote and help ensure tory rule forever.





ska invita said:


> Think i heard/read somewhere that they are looking forward to getting in a confidence & supply arrangement with the Tories, so that fits in with that


Just when you couldn't have a worse opinion of the pink slime...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

Never thought I'd say this about anyone but I think I'd respect them more if they just defected to the tories.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 23, 2019)

They really are deluded. I mean there is enough a labour leaning, pro-remain, anti-corbyn vote that they have some support (thought not enough to save their seats) But a good proportion of those people are are going to be totally turned off by such blatant allied to the Tories. This is a suicide note to neo-liberalism.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 23, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Never thought I'd say this about anyone but I think I'd respect them more if they just defected to the tories.



Remember them all shrieking about 'bullying' if anyone called them Tories?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 23, 2019)

Ian Austin heckled Corbyn for saying that invading Iraq was bad. Even the Tories don't tend to do that, realising that actually now everyone thinks it was fucked.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> They really are deluded. I mean there is enough a labour leaning, pro-remain, anti-corbyn vote that they can get some support from (thought not enough to save their seats) but even a good proportion of those people are are going to be totally turned off by such blatant allied to the Tories.



Leslie's been in the local paper swearing he'll defend his seat (although not in a byelection natch), I wonder if he's really that deluded.

The day after the 2017 election Leslie was in the national press chatting shit about Corbyn, he really is completely tone deaf. I hope the local CLP is asking themselves some serious questions about how they allowed this bellend to get the nomination in the first place.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Remember them all shrieking about 'bullying' if anyone called them Tories?



Yeah there was a whole thread about Umunna's whining.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah there was a whole thread about Umunna's whining.


Whining and dining the chuka way


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 23, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> . I hope the local CLP is asking themselves some serious questions about how they allowed this bellend to get the nomination in the first place.


Didn't have much say in it. Parachuted in by central after he lost his seat up here.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> Didn't have much say in it. Parachuted in by central after he lost his seat up here.



Yeah, Shipley wasn't it?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 23, 2019)

Nick Cohen reckons they're great, amazingly enough. Austin has a Black Country accent so is an authentic voice of the working class rather than someone with an accent. And so on.

It really is something designed to attract journalists.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 23, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah, Shipley wasn't it?


Yep, lost it to the odious Philip Davies


----------



## Badgers (Feb 23, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> It’d be an attractive proposition for Tory supporters, they’d get more bang for their buck throwing money at Chuka’s chumps and splitting the labour vote than throwing it directly at the tories, who’d only blow it on ‘how to stand awkwardly’ lessons.


A handful of Blairite cunts and a couple of spineless Tories might sway the politically challenged but it will be interesting to see how the Tories cope without the easy budgets if more donors leave. For all the flaws of the Labour Party they are not reliant on a dozen big businesses.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 23, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Nick Cohen reckons they're great, amazingly enough. Austin has a Black Country accent so is an authentic voice of the working class rather than someone with an accent. And so on.
> 
> It really is something designed to attract journalists.



Best not to mention the accents of Umunna, Leslie, Soubry, Smith, basically any of the rest of them. Authentic local accents they ain't.


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2019)

The new Opinium shows them taking chunks out of Labour and Lib Dems and sweet fuck all out of the the tories, even with the three tory defectors. Looks like they represent a current that just doesn't exist in the current tory electoral coalition - which gives them much less leverage than they'd hoped for...


----------



## tim (Feb 23, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Whining and dining the chuka way










At least he whines and dines with panache. He's the one politician you won't see awkwardly biting into a bacon sandwich.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

tim said:


> At least he whines and dines with class. He's the one politician you won't see awkwardly biting into a bacon sandwich.


His elegant teeth cost more than an audi


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 23, 2019)

Badgers said:


> A handful of Blairite cunts and a couple of spineless Tories might sway the politically challenged but it will be interesting to see how the Tories cope without the easy budgets if more donors leave. For all the flaws of the Labour Party they are not reliant on a dozen big businesses.


Yes, the multi-hundred year party of capital will collapse and bourgeois rule with it if  warburtons don't give them a few quid.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 23, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> His elegant teeth cost more than an audi


Which model Audi?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Which model Audi?


An rs 4


----------



## Badgers (Feb 23, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> An rs 4


Yup


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Yup


You should have seen his teeth before


----------



## tim (Feb 23, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, the multi-hundred year party of capital will collapse and bourgeois rule with it if  warburtons don't give them a few quid.



The Tories'll subvert the raison d'etre of any capitalists that won't cough up. Davey the Pigman made that quite clear.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 23, 2019)

tim said:


> At least he whines and dines with panache. He's the one politician you won't see awkwardly biting into a bacon sandwich.



I don't even see that tbh. Some people want him to be the British Obama but he's more pound shop Obama isn't he. The charisma free version.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 23, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I don't even see that tbh. Some people want him to be the British Obama but he's more pound shop Obama isn't he. The charisma free version.


The new paltry of capital?


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 23, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Nick Cohen reckons they're great, amazingly enough. Austin has a Black Country accent so is an authentic voice of the working class rather than someone with an accent. And so on.
> 
> It really is something designed to attract journalists.



I suspect journalists largely put them up to it, made them feel like heroes. I wonder how they would find life outside the bubble, if they dare set foot there.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 23, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> I wonder how they would find life outside the bubble, if they dare set foot there.


----------



## D'wards (Feb 23, 2019)

Was the nature of Chukka's closet dwelling skeleton ever established?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 23, 2019)

Sunday tomorrow... Vaguely curious to see what sycophantry and attacks the Observer will have in it.


killer b said:


> The new Opinium shows them taking chunks out of Labour and Lib Dems and sweet fuck all out of the the tories, even with the three tory defectors. Looks like they represent a current that just doesn't exist in the current tory electoral coalition - which gives them much less leverage than they'd hoped for...



Theyd probably be happy with that... Stopping Corbyn seems to be a higher calling for them.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 23, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Was the nature of Chukka's closet dwelling skeleton ever established?



You could just ask your question a bit more directly you know


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Was the nature of Chukka's closet dwelling skeleton ever established?


Yes it's a wardrobe leading to narnia


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Theyd probably be happy with that... Stopping Corbyn seems to be a higher calling for them.


nah, they won't be happy. the whole point of being sensible centrists is that they claim they can appeal to a wider constituency. If they can't take any points off the tories, this week when they've had blanket coverage, then that's immediately proved to be bollocks.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 24, 2019)

So no big name (or any name for that matter) leaving in time to make a big splash in the Sunday papers? If you’re going to orchestrate a steady stream of resignations to keep the media interested it’s a no-brainier. Maybe this is all there is?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 24, 2019)

Be Monday morning again if there are any I would have thought. Could be hinted at/built tomorow. Alternatively that could be it for a while and more will threaten to walk and pressure Corbyn/May

They are definitely co-ordinating with others in Labour and Tories so there will be some more at some point I think.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 24, 2019)

Next weeks votes create plenty of moments


----------



## Supine (Feb 24, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Was the nature of Chukka's closet dwelling skeleton ever established?



Something to do with mc's and soulful house music


----------



## kabbes (Feb 24, 2019)

Can somebody explain to me how this Ting actually differs politically from the Lib Dems?


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 24, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Can somebody explain to me how this Ting actually differs politically from the Lib Dems?


 
Likely more to the right - this claim of being ‘on the centre ground’ is one of those truth-by-assertion things that no-one is challenging, it’s a new right-wing party, says little about social justice.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 24, 2019)

> One of Labour's biggest private backers has donated to the new breakaway grouping of MPs, _The Sunday Telegraph _can disclose.
> 
> Sir David Garrard, a property tycoon who gave £1.5 million to the party under Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband, was approached to fund The Independent Group, after abandoning Labour over Jeremy Corbyn's approach to anti-Semitism.



One of Labour's biggest private backers has donated to The Independent Group


----------



## brogdale (Feb 24, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Can somebody explain to me how this Ting actually differs politically from the Lib Dems?


Simples: LDs pretend to have an ideology; TInGe pretend not to.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 24, 2019)

twatter, i know...but...


----------



## Sprocket. (Feb 24, 2019)

brogdale said:


> twatter, i know...but...
> 
> View attachment 162812



Both looking to the right though!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 24, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> So no big name (or any name for that matter) leaving in time to make a big splash in the Sunday papers? If you’re going to orchestrate a steady stream of resignations to keep the media interested it’s a no-brainier. Maybe this is all there is?



I think if they had any big names we'd know about it by now.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 24, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> One of Labour's biggest private backers has donated to The Independent Group



Yes, I'm certain that antisemitism is the reason a property tycoon doesn't want to support Corbyn


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 24, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Nick Cohen reckons they're great, amazingly enough. Austin has a Black Country accent so is an authentic voice of the working class rather than someone with an accent. And so on.
> 
> It really is something designed to attract journalists.



He may have a Black Country accent but according to local reports in the media hardly any of his constituency a) know who he is and b) knew he’d resigned. 

If any of the resigners think their personal brand is enough they are well wide of the mark. Austin can’t even join Tinge as he’s been vocally leave and opposes the remoan demand for a 2nd ref. The wilderness beckons....


----------



## D'wards (Feb 24, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> You could just ask your question a bit more directly you know


Didn't actually mean that. Do you think he has, what used to be called, a lavender marriage? 
I'm sure he wouldn't be the first in the House of Commons


----------



## happie chappie (Feb 24, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Didn't actually mean that. Do you think he has, what used to be called, a lavender marriage?
> I'm sure he wouldn't be the first in the House of Commons



Does it matter?

If so, why?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 24, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Didn't actually mean that. Do you think he has, what used to be called, a lavender marriage?
> I'm sure he wouldn't be the first in the House of Commons


Oh yeh obvs he's either gay and has a wife to hide that or he's straight. But there's another possibility, that he's bi. But who gives a fuck about his sexuality? His shit politics are far more important than whether he's straight or not.


----------



## kebabking (Feb 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Oh yeh obvs he's either gay and has a wife to hide that or he's straight. But there's another possibility, that he's bi. But who gives a fuck about his sexuality? His shit politics are far more important than whether he's straight or not.



I was under the impression that - in non-specific, potentially libelous terms m'lud - that it's the not the particular tastes any hypothetical individual that attract comment or disapproval, but the veil of dishonesty drawn over them in order to cosy up to some of the more _socially conservative_ church groups in the (non-specific, hypothetical) constituency that brings a sizable vote from a particular demographic.

M'lud.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 24, 2019)

kebabking said:


> I was under the impression that - in non-specific, potentially libelous terms m'lud - that it's the not the particular tastes any hypothetical individual that attract comment or disapproval, but the veil of dishonesty drawn over them in order to cosy up to some of the more _socially conservative_ church groups in the (non-specific, hypothetical) constituency that brings a sizable vote from a particular demographic.
> 
> M'lud.


So what you're saying is that some people are liars in all spheres of their lives


----------



## D'wards (Feb 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Oh yeh obvs he's either gay and has a wife to hide that or he's straight. But there's another possibility, that he's bi. But who gives a fuck about his sexuality? His shit politics are far more important than whether he's straight or not.


I was answering the insinuation from my innocent question. 
Well I don't give a fuck about his sexuality but there again I'm not a spin doctor or the whole of the British electorate.


----------



## D'wards (Feb 24, 2019)

happie chappie said:


> Does it matter?
> 
> If so, why?


Well not to me. 
Actually I think it would be good to have a mixed race bisexual PM, purely as it would show how far we've come.
But I'm not a homophobic swing voter


----------



## newbie (Feb 24, 2019)

kebabking said:


> I was under the impression that - in non-specific, potentially libelous terms m'lud - that it's the not the particular tastes any hypothetical individual that attract comment or disapproval, but the veil of dishonesty drawn over them in order to cosy up to some of the more _socially conservative_ church groups in the (non-specific, hypothetical) constituency that brings a sizable vote from a particular demographic.
> 
> M'lud.


there are a lot of churches in and around Streatham.  I'd be surprised if most are not '_socially conservative_'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 24, 2019)

D'wards said:


> I was answering the insinuation from my innocent question.
> Well I don't give a fuck about his sexuality but there again I'm not a spin doctor or the whole of the British electorate.


You don't give a fuck about it to such an extent that you felt compelled to raise it here


----------



## D'wards (Feb 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> You don't give a fuck about it to such an extent that you felt compelled to raise it here


You flipping love an argument. It drives you...


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 24, 2019)

From the Observer:



> The _Observer_ has spoken to Labour MPs, peers and supporters who are all on the verge of quitting. “I know personally there are up to 20 MPs sitting on the cliff edge,” said one MP. “The interesting thing is of the 20, it’s whether they jump or are kicked off.” Another said: “100%, more will go.” Several peers are also considering their position. “In many cases they’ve had 50 or 60 years of membership,” said one. “It is a wrench. However, there are people in the ‘not if, but when’ mode.”
> 
> Some MPs have had to see the funny side of the turmoil that was unleashed. “I’ve had two groups coming to me,” said one MP close to the defectors. “One group saying: ‘Come and join us, this is the new thing.’ And another saying: ‘Why don’t you fuck off and join your mates.’ But I think going would let [the leadership] off the hook.”
> 
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 24, 2019)

D'wards said:


> You flipping love an argument. It drives you...


You don't like arguments because you find it so hard to string one together


----------



## kenny g (Feb 24, 2019)

There definitely was the impression that Chuka had something to hide last time he pulled out. No way of knowing what it may be though. It might be that he just made a calculation it would be better to let Corbyn drop the ball at the 2017  election.


----------



## Poi E (Feb 24, 2019)

So if they won't support a VONC then they're Tories, right?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> So what you're saying is that some people are liars in all spheres of their lives



Shocking right?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 24, 2019)

kenny g said:


> There definitely was the impression that Chuka had something to hide last time he pulled out. No way of knowing what it may be though. It might be that he just made a calculation it would be better to let Corbyn drop the ball at the 2017  election.


Easier for him to be a big fish in a small pond


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 24, 2019)

Poi E said:


> So if they won't support a VONC then they're Tories, right?



Might as well be for all the difference it makes to the ordinary punter. Also Umunna openly supports tory policies.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 24, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Shocking right?


Not really, esp if you've followed the careers of Britain's premier liars like "lord" archer


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2019)

the observer giving TIG a military hoover grade suck job then eh.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 24, 2019)

kenny g said:


> There definitely was the impression that Chuka had something to hide last time he pulled out. No way of knowing what it may be though. It might be that he just made a calculation it would be better to let Corbyn drop the ball at the 2017  election.


It could just be that he thought it was better for his profile to not have stood than to have stood and lost.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 24, 2019)

kenny g said:


> There definitely was the impression that Chuka had something to hide last time he pulled out. No way of knowing what it may be though. It might be that he just made a calculation it would be better to let Corbyn drop the ball at the 2017  election.



There was that impression definitely. I've certainly heard a lot of labour lefts tell me that Chuka wouldn't challenge Corbyn or split away from the LP because he had 'skeletons' that would limit his ambitions. Never much more than innuendo about what they were.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 24, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> It could just be that he thought it was better for his profile to not have stood than to have stood and lost.



I'm sure I said that like 10 pages in but I suppose it's not as fun as "oooooh, maybe he's gay, imagine the scandal!"


----------



## Badgers (Feb 24, 2019)

Has Chuka invested that 'gaming money' he got?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 24, 2019)

Maybe he was worried that standing for the leadership would reveal he was a vacuous opportunist cunt.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 24, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Maybe he was worried that standing for the leadership would reveal he was a vacuous opportunist cunt.



That may not be how he self-identifies. He shows every indication of genuinely believing himself to be both a keen political thinker and a charismatic and well-liked person. It might even work if we hadn't all lived through Tony fucking Blair once already.


----------



## tim (Feb 24, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Has Chuka invested that 'gaming money' he got?



?


----------



## agricola (Feb 24, 2019)

Anyone else hear the rumours that Kepa has joined TIG?


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 24, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> [Observer story]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And on the assertion of a *single* MP, the _printed_ version of The Oberver today posted this headline :




			
				Observer said:
			
		

> " 'It's a wrench to see them go' -- but 20 more MPs are on the brink of quitting"



Twenty, yes twenty, we tell you!!


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 24, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> the observer giving TIG a military hoover grade suck job then eh.



Exactly. Here's Rawnsley pretending to be analytical.

What he says about their prospects isn't _completely_ crap, but he's scarcely bothering to hide his adoration of them 
The Observer (generally) has always been more anti-Corbyn that even The Guardian, and that's saying something!


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Feb 25, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> There was that impression definitely. I've certainly heard a lot of labour lefts tell me that Chuka wouldn't challenge Corbyn or split away from the LP because he had 'skeletons' that would limit his ambitions. Never much more than innuendo about what they were.


Check under that cunts patio I would say


----------



## teqniq (Feb 25, 2019)




----------



## likesfish (Feb 25, 2019)

tbf Its only Chukka who wants Chukka to be Britain's answer to Obama.
  Its not racism its because he's a careerist arse who thinks the rest of us are trash


----------



## Treacle Toes (Feb 25, 2019)

likesfish said:


> tbf Its only Chukka who wants Chukka to be Britain's answer to Obama.
> Its not racism its because he's a careerist arse who thinks the rest of us are trash


Who/what are you responding to?


----------



## kebabking (Feb 25, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Who/what are you responding to?



The people in his head?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 25, 2019)




----------



## Spymaster (Feb 25, 2019)

kebabking said:


> The people in his head?


You're cruel to him but it's fucking funny.


----------



## Voley (Feb 25, 2019)

I'm off work ill today.   Can we have a few resignations/defections to keep me entertained please?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 25, 2019)

Voley said:


> I'm off work ill today.   Can we have a few resignations/defections to keep me entertained please?





Screw the lot of you! Urban is shit, I'm off to Mumsnet.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 25, 2019)

Voley said:


> I'm off work ill today.   Can we have a few resignations/defections to keep me entertained please?



Corbyn has quit Labour and joined TInGe in a masterful display of trolling.


----------



## Argonia (Feb 25, 2019)

Petition to get the Tiggers to face by-elections:

https://www.change.org/p/anna-soubr...tors-should-stand-down-and-call-a-by-election

https://www.change.org/p/mps-to-call-by-elections-if-they-leave-their-party-end-votetheft


----------



## killer b (Feb 25, 2019)

why would you bother though?


----------



## Argonia (Feb 25, 2019)

Apparently defecator Sarah Wollaston sponsored a 2011 bill to make by-elections compulsory for any MP changing party.

The Independent Group’s democratic deficit | Coffee House


----------



## Poi E (Feb 25, 2019)

Like rain on your wedding day


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Like rain on your wedding day


like piss in your porridge


----------



## teqniq (Feb 25, 2019)

A Spin Doctor Helping the Independent Group Worked for a Hawkish Right-Wing Think-Tank


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 26, 2019)

on teh tweeter

 

:handbag icon:


----------



## Wilf (Feb 26, 2019)

agricola said:


> Anyone else hear the rumours that Kepa has joined TIG?


Technically, he was resisting deselection.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 26, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Technically, he was resisting deselection.



Well played.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

no comment necessary


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2019)

One bottle of beer on the table and it looks like it's that falangist shit sagres.


----------



## Athos (Feb 26, 2019)

What is the collective noun for cunts, anyway?


----------



## Lucy Fur (Feb 26, 2019)

Lets hope they continue to follow in Judas's steps....al the way to the gallows tree.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> What is the collective noun for cunts, anyway?



Whatever it was before, now it's 'an independent group of cunts'.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> no comment necessary



Soubry's face


----------



## BobDavis (Feb 26, 2019)

Chuka can’t eat that sort of stuff all the time. He is too thin.


----------



## gosub (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> What is the collective noun for cunts, anyway?



A 'synergy' sounds about right


----------



## Lucy Fur (Feb 26, 2019)

Blair taking the picture per chance?


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 26, 2019)

Lucy Fur said:


> Blair taking the picture per chance?



Funny idea, but hard to imagine he'd stay behind the camera. He'd have lined them all up down one long side of the table, with him in the middle.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Funny idea, but hard to imagine he'd stay behind the camera. He'd have lined them all up down one long side of the table, with him in the middle.


https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/new-jokes-please.226799/page-277#post-14434247


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 26, 2019)

Love the way barely any of the food is touched, just a quick pose for the camera to pretend they’re normal humans before slinking off to eat babies and kittens in wherever it is they do that.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Love the way barely any of the food is touched, just a quick pose for the camera to pretend they’re normal humans before slinking off to eat babies and kittens in wherever it is they do that.


Heidi allen is eating them wings for 100% sure. Try and stop her.


----------



## killer b (Feb 26, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Heidi allen is eating them wings for 100% sure. Try and stop her.


She's bantering on twitter about this with blue-tick journalists. Legend.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2019)

angela smith disproves of the free tap water


----------



## Athos (Feb 26, 2019)

Can't believe Nandos let Shukur in without a tie!


----------



## Wilf (Feb 26, 2019)

'Hey, gang, apparently one of us has to go up and 'order'. Gavin, what do you want for your _sides'?_


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 26, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Heidi allen is eating them wings for 100% sure. Try and stop her.



This is how low the bar is. She's the tory it's ok to like because she can pose in front of a plate of Earth food without her true alien disgust for humans and their revolting habits showing through.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> angela smith disproves of the free tap water


yeh she doesn't touch it cos of the fluorine


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> This is how low the bar is. She's the tory it's ok to like because she can pose in front of a plate of Earth food without her true alien disgust for humans and their revolting habits showing through.


only for a photograph, never watch a video of her - the mask slips


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

Wilf said:


> 'Hey, gang, apparently one of us has to go up and 'order'. Gavin, what do you want for your _sides'?_


he wants a knife for his back


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> only for a photograph, never watch a video of her - the mask slips



It's all relative. Like how you'd think Jesus was a twat for only curing about seven lepers instead of all of them, but compared with how everyone else at the time treated lepers it was ok.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> It's all relative. Like how you'd think Jesus was a twat for only curing about seven lepers instead of all of them, but compared with how everyone else at the time treated lepers it was ok.


jesus was a twat


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 26, 2019)

Kind of my point there. Maybe I'm not using enough smilies.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> It's all relative. Like how you'd think Jesus was a twat for only curing about seven lepers instead of all of them, but compared with how everyone else at the time treated lepers it was ok.


it was ten lepers


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> jesus was a twat


Natch. He was a flexitarian.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

every time i see 'and it came to pass' i think 'that rock 'n roll was born' 


anyway, back to chuka...


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> jesus was a twat



pickmans spotted this morning


----------



## maomao (Feb 26, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> pickmans spotted this morning
> 
> 
> View attachment 163059


My mate had that. The front is worse. Somehow.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 26, 2019)

maomao said:


> My mate had that. The front is worse. Somehow.



Their music was shite as well.


----------



## maomao (Feb 26, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Their music was shite as well.


This is why we need a dislike button.


----------



## Sue (Feb 26, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Natch. He was a flexitarian.


Probably a 'vegetarian' who ate fish, what with hanging about with all those fishermen and being a fisher of souls and all that.


----------



## Athos (Feb 26, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> pickmans spotted this morning
> 
> 
> View attachment 163059



Jesus has a t-shirt that says 'Pickmans is a cunt'.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 26, 2019)

I’ll say this for that Jesus fella, he was always up for an argument


----------



## elbows (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> Jesus has a t-shirt that says 'Pickmans is a cunt'.



Sort of, I believe that shirt had some deliberate grammatical mistakes just to ensure it got Pickmans attention.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> What is the collective noun for cunts, anyway?


A bunch.


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> Jesus has a t-shirt that says 'Pickmans is a cunt'.



PopeUrban75 sure is a bear-pit


----------



## TopCat (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> What is the collective noun for cunts, anyway?


Bunch


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> What is the collective noun for cunts, anyway?



A 'shower' of cunts.


----------



## belboid (Feb 26, 2019)

Athos said:


> What is the collective noun for cunts, anyway?


a Chukkle?


----------



## Casual Observer (Feb 26, 2019)

A bullingdon.


----------



## BobDavis (Feb 26, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> pickmans spotted this morning
> 
> 
> View attachment 163059


Pickmans is a hippy?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 26, 2019)

A bed of solid cunt.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 26, 2019)

I think it should be a _cunt of cunts_. A great quiz answer in a post Brexit edition of The Chase.


----------



## NoXion (Feb 26, 2019)

BobDavis said:


> Pickmans is a hippy?



What hippy? Those gentlemen in the picture are quite clearly metalheads.


----------



## BobDavis (Feb 26, 2019)

NoXion said:


> What hippy? Those gentlemen in the picture are quite clearly metalheads.


Hence the question mark in post 2009. Pickmans is a metalhead not a hippy. Thanks for clearing that one up.


----------



## nemoanonemo (Feb 26, 2019)

A brunch


----------



## bemused (Feb 26, 2019)

nemoanonemo said:


> A brunch



What Nandos is that?


----------



## Gerry1time (Feb 26, 2019)

nemoanonemo said:


>



Gosh! Look how normal they all are! Eating in a restaurant that ordinary people might eat at! That's certainly connected with me as an ordinary voter, and clearly demonstrates that they understand the concerns of ordinary people outside of the Westminster bubble. It's especially great how unawkward they all look, being surrounded by ordinary voters. Really, really unawkward.


----------



## Cid (Feb 26, 2019)

Wasn't 'cheeky nandos' circa 2015 anyway?


----------



## Cid (Feb 26, 2019)

They should have got to Biscuitville to be au courant.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 26, 2019)

bemused said:


> What Nandos is that?



One that's not in Broxtowe, Nottingham, Stockport, Streatham, Liverpool etc.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 26, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Looks like Sasaferrato is heading to the South Atlantic canal network too...



Pffft. It's the Grytviken/Buenos Aires Friendship Bridge for that one. Diving down the 1lb bags of lime mortar to set the foundations.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 26, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> Gosh! Look how normal they all are! Eating in a restaurant that ordinary people might eat at! That's certainly connected with me as an ordinary voter, and clearly demonstrates that they understand the concerns of ordinary people outside of the Westminster bubble. It's especially great how unawkward they all look, being surrounded by ordinary voters. Really, really unawkward.



I really don't understand the appeal of Nandos. It fails as a restaurant _and_ as cheap and cheerful fast food.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> at the end of each meeting the mp was burned in effigy



Last night I got to wind up three of our local councillors who were at a meeting last month, and scurried off half way through, to go vote AGAINST "1 member, 1 vote" for Chuka's CLP. "Didn't work out so well for you, or for Chuka, did it?" and "well, he certainly deserved your faith in him as a Labour Party man" were two of the more genial things that fell from betwixt my lips. I did also throw out the old Lydon classic "ever get the feeling you've been cheated?".


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 26, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> Gosh! Look how normal they all are! Eating in a restaurant that ordinary people might eat at! That's certainly connected with me as an ordinary voter, and clearly demonstrates that they understand the concerns of ordinary people outside of the Westminster bubble. It's especially great how unawkward they all look, being surrounded by ordinary voters. Really, really unawkward.



Once they started dislocating their jaws to swallow large live rodents that Soubry had smuggled in under the table the ‘one of the people’ look was lost.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 26, 2019)

newbie said:


> there are a lot of churches in and around Streatham.  I'd be surprised if most are not '_socially conservative_'.



One of the reasons Chuka jumped ship was "1 member, one vote" being voted in by his constituency party, effectively removing the influence his several thousand "churchy" votes got him with the CLP executive. 

And yes, many of them are "socially conservative", insofar as being against homosexuality, abortion, women's rights etc, and might have judged Chuka unfavourably, if what threatened to be revealed during the leadership race, had been (straightforward Portillo-like youthful indiscretions) had come out.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> no comment necessary



You just know that as soon as the photo-op was over, they upped sticks to The Ivy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 26, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Soubry's face



Looks like she always does when a camera catches her in the evening...half cut.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> You just know that as soon as the photo-op was over, they upped sticks to The Ivy.


Yeh now the gay hussar's closed down and rules was booked out


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 26, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I really don't understand the appeal of Nandos. It fails as a restaurant _and_ as cheap and cheerful fast food.



You can have chicken and chips with a side and that side can be chips, so double chips. It’s the new Eden.


----------



## Gerry1time (Feb 26, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Looks like she always does when a camera catches her in the evening...half cut.



Tbf, it's only Angela Smith in that photo that's reaching for the wine.


----------



## kenny g (Feb 26, 2019)

You are all just jealous you aren't able to join them...


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 26, 2019)

we could just start voting lib dem


----------



## bemused (Feb 26, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I really don't understand the appeal of Nandos. It fails as a restaurant _and_ as cheap and cheerful fast food.



If you are with a group it is the path of least resistance. I like it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 26, 2019)

bemused said:


> If you are with a group


Ah, this will be why I've only ever been once 

Although, and I can't believe this has only just occurred to me... isn't the idea of a 'group of independents' a bit oxymoronic?

Aside from this particular group of independents being regular moronic, of course.


----------



## Sue (Feb 26, 2019)

kenny g said:


> You are all just jealous you aren't able to join them...


Have to say, spending the evening in Nando's with that shower is really not on my 'fun things I'd like to be doing' list.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 26, 2019)

Do they look like they're doing it for fun..?


----------



## Sue (Feb 26, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Do they look like they're doing it for fun..?


Who can tell..?


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 26, 2019)

the ship would be a little brighter if they could move Gavin to the back

but he has staked his claim


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 26, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Although, and I can't believe this has only just occurred to me... isn't the idea of a 'group of independents' a bit oxymoronic?



I put this very point to Chris Leslie via his fb page.

Thus far, no response


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 26, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I put this very point to Chris Leslie via his fb page.
> 
> Thus far, no response


It was probably discussed round the table at Nando's.

"Guys, someone got in touch with me on Facebook, I think there's something we need to talk about..."


----------



## bemused (Feb 26, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Do they look like they're doing it for fun..?



Heidi Allen is tucking in. I've a soft spot for Heidi she always seems so happy.


----------



## pesh (Feb 26, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Although, and I can't believe this has only just occurred to me... isn't the idea of a 'group of independents' a bit oxymoronic?


The Lone Rangers


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 26, 2019)

bemused said:


> Heidi Allen is tucking in. I've a soft spot for Heidi she always seems so happy.


----------



## JimW (Feb 26, 2019)

They only agreed to go to Nandos because they thought it was another forum for billionaires in Switzerland.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 27, 2019)

JimW said:


> They only agreed to go to Nandos because they thought it was another forum for billionaires in Switzerland.


'Welcome to Nandos. Are you the Umunna party?'
- no, we are just sitting as independents for the time being without a leader, but will revisit the issue before the end of the year.
'FFS, I just wanted to know if you needed a big table!'
- oh, sorry. Yes, erm, we are indeed a _group_.
'And will anyone be joining you later?'
- well, even after Corbyn's belated U turn on the second referendum, we have high hopes. The antisemitism thing alone will surely bring fresh recruits. 
'Jaysus, I just wanted to know if anybody else was dining tonight'
- oops, sorry again, this low budget dining lark isn't easy!
'Right then. So, you choose a main meal and your sauce and then there's the sides'
- erm, can we change sides later?
'GET OUT!'


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 27, 2019)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 27, 2019)

Wilf said:


> 'Welcome to Nandos. Are you the Umunna party?'
> - no, we are just sitting as independents for the time being without a leader, but will revisit the issue before the end of the year.
> 'FFS, I just wanted to know if you needed a big table!'
> - oh, sorry. Yes, erm, we are indeed a _group_.
> ...



Excellent stuff, this is what we come to Urban for.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 27, 2019)

nemoanonemo said:


>


 Anyway, they seem to be stuck on 11. The Nandos thing doesn't seem to have attracted any more centrist epicurean mould breakers.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 27, 2019)

I put this on the bandwidth thread, but worth a re-post on this one.


----------



## rekil (Feb 27, 2019)

Do they put the bill on their expenses or is there a food allowance limit.


----------



## killer b (Feb 27, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, they seem to be stuck on 11. The Nandos thing doesn't seem to have attracted any more centrist epicurean mould breakers.


been a lot of shouting today over Williamson, I wouldn't be totally surprised if someone else went.


----------



## agricola (Feb 27, 2019)

copliker said:


> Do they put the bill on their expenses or is there a food allowance limit.



With them it could be both.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> been a lot of shouting today over Williamson, I wouldn't be totally surprised if someone else went.



I feel more like they won't see the need, since they seem to be getting everything their own way inside Labour now.


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

Williamson being suspended is a good thing for the left too tbf.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Williamson being suspended is a good thing for the left too tbf.



You think? 

I don't think he's particularly bright and while I don't know much about it he obviously shouldn't have gone near Beeley, much less praised her. But he's the only 'left' MP I've heard put forward anything about automatic reselection and democratising the party. I can't say I think very much positive about him but he seemed to be the only (mild) threat to Watson et al. 

In any case, my guess is that having managed to remove him, the right will feel more confident about removing others. Who, having not defended Williamson, will struggle to defend themselves.


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

Yeah. He's a wrecker. He should have been stepped on years ago. Fuck him, fuck his defenders.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Yeah. He's a wrecker. He should have been stepped on years ago. Fuck him, fuck his defenders.


Around the time this decrepit little monkey man was leading derby labour party into a coalition with the tories and imposing his own version of progressive austerity - at the very latest.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Yeah. He's a wrecker. He should have been stepped on years ago. Fuck him, fuck his defenders.



Sorry - I meant, can you tell me why you think this?


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

He's a poisonous Jew-baiter and a tactical liability.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> He's a poisonous Jew-baiter and a tactical liability.



I'm not gonna disagree on the latter, but then literally every Corbyn supporting MP is a tactical liability including Corbyn himself. 

On the former, I hadn't heard anything about him being anti-semitic (although acknowledge butchersapron comments about his damascene like conversion from Tory collaborating Blairite to hard nosed left winger) can you give me any examples?


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

I didn't say he's been antisemitic. I said he's a jew-baiter, which he is.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> I didn't say he's been antisemitic. I said he's a jew-baiter, which he is.



I'd be genuinely interested in what your opinion is on the difference.


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

I don't think Williamson has said anything explicitly antisemitic, but his words and actions (the 'pattern of behaviour' he's being investigated for) throughout the Labour antisemitism row has clearly been aimed to inflame the situation. Fuck him.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> I don't think Williamson has said anything explicitly antisemitic, but his words and actions (the 'pattern of behaviour' he's being investigated for) throughout the Labour antisemitism row has clearly been aimed to inflame the situation. Fuck him.



I don't really understand that - maybe I haven't paid enough attention to his words and actions.


----------



## Argonia (Feb 28, 2019)

All he said was that the party has been too apologetic on anti-semitism. Which is fine as far as free speech goes. What is all this censorship that goes on these days?


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> I don't really understand that - maybe I haven't paid enough attention to his words and actions.



This thread from last summer details some of the problem.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 28, 2019)

Argonia said:


> All he said was that the party has been too apologetic on anti-semitism. Which is fine as far as free speech goes. What is all this censorship that goes on these days?


It's not censorship, it's basic party discipline. A party is supposed to be a coalition built around a set of principles. If someone doesn't abide by those principles - whether in words or actions - it is only right that they are made to leave. Fuck all to do with censorship and fuck all to do with freedom of speech.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's not censorship, it's basic party discipline. A party is supposed to be a coalition built around a set of principles. If someone doesn't abide by those principles - whether in words or actions - it is only right that they are made to leave. Fuck all to do with censorship and fuck all to do with freedom of speech.



To be fair the notion of the Labour PLP having a shared set of principles and abiding by any kind of basic party discipline disappeared a while ago.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> This thread from last summer details some of the problem.



Thanks.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> To be fair the notion of the Labour PLP having a shared set of principles and abiding by any kind of basic party discipline disappeared a while ago.


Emphasis on "supposed to be". I think the principle we can all agree labour should adhere to is antiracism so when they enforce that I'm not going to complain.


----------



## LDC (Feb 28, 2019)

Argonia said:


> All he said was that the party has been too apologetic on anti-semitism. Which is fine as far as free speech goes. What is all this censorship that goes on these days?



Now you've had a look at the tread posted by killer b what do you think Argonia?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Emphasis on "supposed to be". I think the principle we can all agree labour should adhere to is antiracism so when they enforce that I'm not going to complain.



Is it adhering to a principle of anti-racism to suspend someone for saying something a bit daft but not in any way racist or anti-semitic? 

I'm still going through the thread killer b linked to and I can see there's a lot of stuff I haven't paid attention to gone on, so I'm not saying that CW hasn't done more than that. But the grounds of the suspension is what he said at the meeting on Monday night. Which (based on the clip only, I didn't go) doesn't look like it violates anti-racist principles.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

I'd add as a general point that although I don't have a lot of sympathy with Momentum and especially Sheffield Momentum, I know a lot of people who are members and they definitely don't deserve to be accused of being riddled with vile anti semites by Andrew Neil on telly as they were today.


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> But the grounds of the suspension is what he said at the meeting on Monday night. Which (based on the clip only, I didn't go) doesn't look like it violates anti-racist principles.


they aren't ffs. The grounds for suspension are 'a pattern of behaviour' - the pattern of behaviour detailed - only in part - in the thread I linked to.


----------



## Argonia (Feb 28, 2019)

Can't read it Lynn, it's not working on my ipad for some reason....


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Is it adhering to a principle of anti-racism to suspend someone for saying something a bit daft but not in any way racist or anti-semitic?
> 
> I'm still going through the thread killer b linked to and I can see there's a lot of stuff I haven't paid attention to gone on, so I'm not saying that CW hasn't done more than that. But the grounds of the suspension is what he said at the meeting on Monday night. Which (based on the clip only, I didn't go) doesn't look like it violates anti-racist principles.


He said labour have been too apologetic when it comes to antisemitism. That's a labour MP saying that. He's at best an enabler and apologist.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> they aren't ffs. The grounds for suspension are 'a pattern of behaviour' - the pattern of behaviour detailed - only in part - in the thread I linked to.



What's being reported is that the grounds for suspension are what was said at the meeting. It might be that a pattern of behaviour is detailed in his suspension letter, I don't know, but in the papers and on the telly it's portrayed as his comments at that meeting.


----------



## LDC (Feb 28, 2019)

Maybe some of you fuckers on this thread should have a good read of what Williamson has been up to and said the last bit of time before you started bleating on about how his suspension is a bit much?


----------



## killer b (Feb 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> What's being reported is that the grounds for suspension are what was said at the meeting. It might be that a pattern of behaviour is detailed in his suspension letter, I don't know, but in the papers and on the telly it's portrayed as his comments at that meeting.


It's been reported plenty that it's a pattern of behaviour he's been suspended for. 

Why are we arguing about this if you haven't even read the news?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> What's being reported is that the grounds for suspension are what was said at the meeting. It might be that a pattern of behaviour is detailed in his suspension letter, I don't know, but in the papers and on the telly it's portrayed as his comments at that meeting.



Every report I've read or seen has referred to a 'pattern of behaviour'.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> He said labour have been too apologetic when it comes to antisemitism. That's a labour MP saying that. He's at best an enabler and apologist.



I think I'd say he's at best an idiot, although he may well be an enabler and an apologist as well, I'm not sure yet - killer b 's thread suggests so. 

I think part of the problem about the "apologetic" comment, is that there are lots of instances of allegations of anti-semitism that haven't been taken seriously enough or acted on quickly enough, but there's also a series of bizarre allegations that Labour has apologised for and probably shouldn't have.

For example, the Naz Shah thing was definitely well out of order and I'm amazed she's back in the Shadow Cabinet to be honest. I don't agree with that decision, and I don't think it was taken seriously enough. 

On the other hand, I don't see why Corbyn apologised for attending a dinner where a Holocaust survivor said things about Israel. The implication seemed to be that Corbyn was at fault for not disagreeing with an elderly Holocaust survivor, and I don't think he should have apologised for that. 

When you consider that anti-semitic attitudes are more prevalent among Lib Dem and Tory members, that the Tiggers are describing Labour as instituionally racist and anti-semitic, I'm not surprised that some Labour members feel the leadership is being "too apologetic", although it's definitely not how I would have phrased it. 

In any case, what will stand out to most people here is that lots of others have shown far less regard to party discipline and not been suspended.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Feb 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> It's been reported plenty that it's a pattern of behaviour he's been suspended for.
> 
> Why are we arguing about this if you haven't even read the news?



I've just re-read the couple of articles and you're absolutely right, apologies - a 'pattern of behaviour' is referred to.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 28, 2019)

The right wingers should be booted out too of course. Doesn't mean they're wrong in this instance.


----------



## agricola (Mar 1, 2019)

Perhaps there aren't more MPs lined up to defect, then:



> He added that when he briefly stood for the party leadership in 2015, before withdrawing, he was warned that being of BAME background could count against him.
> 
> “The team who were helping me organise, were told by quite a few MPs that they weren’t going to support me, because they didn’t think their working-class constituents would ever vote for a black man – and I was quite taken aback by it,” he says, adding that his new TIG colleagues are more representative of modern Britain.
> 
> ...



Chuka Umunna: I never felt totally comfortable in the Labour party


----------



## Sue (Mar 1, 2019)

“The team who were helping me organise, were told by quite a few MPs that they weren’t going to support me, because they didn’t think their working-class constituents would ever vote for a black man – and I was quite taken aback by it,” he says, adding that his new TIG colleagues are more representative of modern Britain.'

So working class people are racist or are perceived to be so by Labour politicians. I wonder what they (allegedly) thought their non-white working class constituents would do? FFS.

ETA 'Allegedly' as sounds like a bollocks story to me.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 1, 2019)

> Umunna brushes off the idea that he and his new Conservative allies will struggle to unite around a set of policies, insisting that the old left-right divide is rapidly being supplanted by others.
> 
> “Your age, your academic qualifications, where you live in the country, whether you have a nationalistic or an internationalist view of the world. Whether you’re socially liberal or conservative. These factors are driving people’s voting behaviour more than ever,” he says. He describes what unites them as a “radical centrist” agenda.


He's going to found out otherwise come the next GE. Though some on here would probably agree with the above.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 1, 2019)

Sue said:


> “The team who were helping me organise, were told by quite a few MPs that they weren’t going to support me, because they didn’t think their working-class constituents would ever vote for a black man – and I was quite taken aback by it,” he says, adding that his new TIG colleagues are more representative of modern Britain.'
> 
> So working class people are racist or are perceived to be so by Labour politicians. I wonder what they (allegedly) thought their non-white working class constituents would do? FFS.
> 
> ETA 'Allegedly' as sounds like a bollocks story to me.



Willing to guarantee that it's a bollocks story. Chukka needs an excuse for not having run for leader, attacking Labour members does the job. Nothing more than that.


----------



## Argonia (Mar 1, 2019)

I don't believe a single syllable that comes out of Chuka's mouth.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 1, 2019)

He’s right that they won’t struggle to unite.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 1, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> He's going to found out otherwise come the next GE. Though some on here would probably agree with the above.


A party of the radical centre. A party of action.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 1, 2019)

Perhaps they just didn't like him: "Oooooooh I wouldn't bother to stand if I were you mate, voters round here  '


----------



## agricola (Mar 1, 2019)

Does anyone know what his beef with Ed Miliband is about?



> Umunna only joined Labour in the 1990s, after the reforms initiated by Tony Blair, and said perhaps the period up to 2010, when Ed Miliband took over, was a historic aberration, and his old party had now reverted to type.
> 
> “Maybe what we’ve seen happen in the Labour party since the late 1990s and through to 2010, was actually exceptional, and wasn’t what the Labour party really is?”



Given that he nominated Ed for leader, was his PPS and recieved every shadow ministerial role that he ever had from him, this bit of his article seems somewhat ungrateful.


----------



## tim (Mar 2, 2019)

Sue said:


> “The team who were helping me organise, were told by quite a few MPs that they weren’t going to support me, because they didn’t think their working-class constituents would ever vote for a black man – and I was quite taken aback by it,” he says, adding that his new TIG colleagues are more representative of modern Britain.'
> 
> So working class people are racist or are perceived to be so by Labour politicians. I wonder what they (allegedly) thought their non-white working class constituents would do? FFS.
> 
> ETA 'Allegedly' as sounds like a bollocks story to me.




He should name names


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 2, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> A party of the radical centre. A party of action.


A New Party


----------



## andysays (Mar 5, 2019)

Looks like they might actually be following through with the party thing.

Independent Group 'in talks about becoming a political party'

And they've given themselves roles like in a real party and everything...







Not sure how busy Sarah Wollaston is likely to be in the near future though...


----------



## rekil (Mar 5, 2019)

'Group convener' is a little bit 'biscuit sourcer' isn't it?


----------



## Sue (Mar 5, 2019)

copliker said:


> 'Group convener' is a little bit 'biscuit sourcer' isn't it?


Obvs an important role which is in very capable hands...


----------



## agricola (Mar 5, 2019)

copliker said:


> 'Group convener' is a little bit 'biscuit sourcer' isn't it?



I think they probably translate it as "party chairman", though of course they are not a party so much as a group of people who advertise and encourage the public to donate to Shuker's company.

Wollaston not having the Health brief is a bit odd, though.


----------



## belboid (Mar 5, 2019)

agricola said:


> Wollaston not having the Health brief is a bit odd, though.


Maybe underfunding and privatising the NHS was a bit too much, even for the tiggers.


----------



## agricola (Mar 5, 2019)

belboid said:


> Maybe underfunding and privatising the NHS was a bit too much, even for the tiggers.



IIRC she was never a minister, and spoke out about some of that from the backbenches.  It just seems odd that here is a person with 20+ years as a GP being responsible for "new colleagues" rather than getting easy headlines like _"GP of 20 years rubbishes Matt Hancock".  _The only reason I can think of would be because of her being chair of the Health & Social Care Select Committee, though Berger is on that as well.


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 5, 2019)

Before the next election they are going to have to turn themselves into a party, their main selling point at the moment is what they aren't, but if they're going to stand for election as a group next time, they need a platform that they can present to the punters, which means running as a party not a group of vaguely connected individuals who are just unhappy with the current state of affairs.


----------



## treelover (Mar 5, 2019)

Dom Traynor said:


> A New Party



Chukka is not going to start a Mosleyite party, quite the opposite.


----------



## treelover (Mar 5, 2019)

andysays said:


> Looks like they might actually be following through with the party thing.
> 
> Independent Group 'in talks about becoming a political party'
> 
> ...



Lets see how Heidi Allen shapes up, lorts of emoting in the past, but then the votes.

having said that I will be writing to her about social care.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 5, 2019)

treelover said:


> Chukka is not going to start a Mosleyite party, quite the opposite.



What’s the opposite of a mosleyite party?


----------



## treelover (Mar 5, 2019)

Ring winger Leslie gets Trade/Business

Smith, owner of lots of privatised water shares gers environment.


----------



## andysays (Mar 5, 2019)

MadeInBedlam said:


> What’s the opposite of a mosleyite party?


The opposite of starting a Mosleyite party is presumably to end one, but you never know with treelover


----------



## treelover (Mar 5, 2019)

What are you saying?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 5, 2019)

andysays said:


> Looks like they might actually be following through with the party thing.
> 
> Independent Group 'in talks about becoming a political party'
> 
> ...



There's only 11 of them and still Shuker can't get a real job.

A tory on welfare, naturally.


----------



## Serge Forward (Mar 5, 2019)

treelover said:


> Chukka is not going to start a Mosleyite party, quite the opposite.


To be fair, Mosley's pre fascist New Party was initially well to the left of both Chuka's chumps and project Corbyn.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 5, 2019)

andysays said:


> Looks like they might actually be following through with the party thing.
> 
> Independent Group 'in talks about becoming a political party'
> 
> ...


At least she's got more of a job than Shuker - spokesperson for tea-bags.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 5, 2019)

agricola said:


> Wollaston not having the Health brief is a bit odd, though.


She's a bit off-message.


> She has ... also delivered numerous warnings over NHS funding





> "I am afraid the prime minister simply hasn’t delivered on the pledge she made on the steps of Downing Street to tackle the burning injustices in our society."





> "After becoming an MP for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party I am shocked to discover that they are actively enabling the eating of people's faces by leopards"


I might have made up one of those quotes.


----------



## moochedit (Mar 5, 2019)

andysays said:


> Looks like they might actually be following through with the party thing.
> 
> Independent Group 'in talks about becoming a political party'



Why do they need to have "talks" with the electoral commision to set up their party? 

Can't they just download the form to set up a party from the ec's website and pay the fee?


----------



## moochedit (Mar 5, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> She's a bit off-message.
> 
> 
> 
> I might have made up one of those quotes.



Which one?


----------



## Funky_monks (Mar 5, 2019)

I hope that they will be grilled about their record on dealing with the racism endemic in their party. Apparently as many as one in eleven of them is a racist.....


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 6, 2019)

Has anyone heard anything (recent -- last couple of days) about Stephen Kinnock either defecting to the TIGs, just generally defecting from the LP, or (even) standing down as an MP?? 

There was an ultra-brief and very vaguely worded mention of Kinnock (Jr.) going, right at the start of News At Ten last night when the Wales section introduces its headlines. But we were about to switch off and go to bed at that point, and I've heard zero since about this. Did I imagine it maybe? 

Quick search on the BBC and Guardian sites only brings up old-ish stories ... ??? Apologies if I've made this up or if I'm just being dense


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 6, 2019)

The big stories in Wales atm are all rugby related ...


----------



## brogdale (Mar 8, 2019)

Interesting how little media traction this lot have gained since tories started defecting.


----------



## killer b (Mar 8, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Interesting how little media traction this lot have gained since tories started defecting.


They're getting a little today on their eyecatching policy to introduce national service, but not of the good kind. 

Stephen Bush did a good piece about how difficult it is for lesser parties to get media traction in the staggers the other day: Why you probably haven’t noticed the Independent Group’s first policy


----------



## Argonia (Mar 8, 2019)

National service? Fucking cunts


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 8, 2019)

Argonia said:


> National service? Fucking cunts


Arm the unemployed


----------



## brogdale (Mar 8, 2019)

Argonia said:


> National service? Fucking cunts


Un-populists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 8, 2019)

treelover said:


> Chukka is not going to start a Mosleyite party, quite the opposite.


he's not going to start an anti-Mosleyite party, of that you can be sure


----------



## kabbes (Mar 8, 2019)

Who is it that wants national service?  It’s not the populace and it’s not the army.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2019)

holy forking shirtballs, Chuka has published their manifesto and it's amazing

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0bdefb_96c4e45b94ea45febcba0162256b03bf.pdf

Spoiler: he really likes the opening ceremony of the Olympics, like a lot


----------



## Sue (Mar 8, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> holy forking shirtballs, Chuka has published their manifesto and it's amazing
> 
> https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0bdefb_96c4e45b94ea45febcba0162256b03bf.pdf



Amazing good or amazing funny or amazing wtf? We're relying on you to tell us so we don't need to read it...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2019)

Sue said:


> Amazing good or amazing funny or amazing wtf? We're relying on you to tell us so we don't need to read it...


Come on, it was never going to be anything but amazing appalling non-self-aware bullshit was it?


----------



## Sue (Mar 8, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Come on, it was never going to be anything but amazing appalling non-self-aware bullshit was it?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2019)

The best thing I can say about it is that he has realised that people are using “centrist” as an insult.


----------



## belboid (Mar 8, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> holy forking shirtballs, Chuka has published their manifesto and it's amazing
> 
> https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0bdefb_96c4e45b94ea45febcba0162256b03bf.pdf
> 
> Spoiler: he really likes the opening ceremony of the Olympics, like a lot


ooh, Patriotic Internationalism sounds great! Good old Empire & Commonwealth


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 8, 2019)

> A radical alternative would be to pioneer an entirely new form of company. TheBig Innovation Centre has launched a debate on "Public Benefit Companies".This model could achieve the goal of public purpose, without costing the public purse a penny. An incoming progressive government could legislate to force companies providing key public services to write the provision of public benefit into their constitution, taking precedence over profit-making. It can then insist on taking a "foundation share" in each company as a condition of its operating licence. This share can be used to install non-executive directors tasked with seeing that the company delivers its newly enshrined public purpose.


Ohh, so radical a wet rehash of the same unless ombudsmen we have now.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 8, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> holy forking shirtballs, Chuka has published their manifesto and it's amazing
> 
> https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0bdefb_96c4e45b94ea45febcba0162256b03bf.pdf
> 
> Spoiler: he really likes the opening ceremony of the Olympics, like a lot


----------



## brogdale (Mar 8, 2019)

They'll be wishing they'd stayed. "Future Britain Group"


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 9, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Come on, it was never going to be anything but amazing appalling non-self-aware bullshit was it?



But is it bad enough to be worth reading for entertainment purposes?


----------



## Sue (Mar 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> But is it bad enough to be worth reading for entertainment purposes?


#masochism


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> But is it bad enough to be worth reading for entertainment purposes?


Honestly? Not really, It generally just confirms ideas you might have about the Tingers and what they stand for. It will probably be good value in the future for pointing out hypocrisy but I don’t subscribe to gotcha culture anyway - it’s clear what they want, it’s what you always thought, and nobody worth arguing with takes them seriously enough for direct examples to be worth citing.

I did find his bitter comments about the perception of centrism a bit funny.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 14, 2019)

Am in the UAE and these cunts are running paid ads


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 14, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Am in the UAE and these cunts are running paid ads



Saying what?  Aimed at who?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Mar 14, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Saying what?  Aimed at who?



Chasing donations probably - UAE very open to lobbying: https://sunlightfoundation.com/2014...-spent-the-most-to-influence-the-usa-in-2013/


----------



## ska invita (Mar 15, 2019)

Vince Cable standing down as Libdem leader could well be Tinge related? A step in the new formation?


----------



## andysays (Mar 15, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Vince Cable standing down as Libdem leader could well be Tinge related? A step in the new formation?


In what way could it be 'Tinge related', do you think?


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 15, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Vince Cable standing down as Libdem leader could well be Tinge related? A step in the new formation?


He’s stepping down in May. His birthday is in May. He’ll be 76.

I think that’s all it is.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Mar 15, 2019)

brogdale said:


> They'll be wishing they'd stayed. "Future Britain Group"
> 
> View attachment 163934



Corbyn should join him being centre left along with all those from Momentum


----------



## ska invita (Mar 15, 2019)

andysays said:


> In what way could it be 'Tinge related', do you think?


A reconfiguration between the LDs and Tinge. Cable has been talking about it for weeks


----------



## brogdale (Mar 15, 2019)

You may scoff, but these unpopulists have got stickability...in for the long haul...after 24 days they're posting a Press Release saying they *"...will not give up." *


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 15, 2019)

brogdale said:


> You may scoff, but these unpopulists have got stickability...in for the long haul...after 24 days they're posting a Press Release saying they *"...will not give up." *
> 
> View attachment 164587



She's got some front accusing the Labour leadership of...


----------



## andysays (Mar 16, 2019)

ska invita said:


> A reconfiguration between the LDs and Tinge. Cable has been talking about it for weeks



OK, I hadn't been aware of that, TBH

Apparently, the LibDems


> now sit alongside the Independent Group (Tig) as the joint-fourth largest grouping in the House of Commons, with 11 MPs. But while the breakaway group of ex-Conservative and Labour MPs has the benefit of being a new entity attracting considerable attention, the Liberal Democrats have struggled to make headway in the opinion polls and both the Lib Dems and Tig have dismissed talk of any kind of merger.



So I don't think Cable's retirement necessarily has anything to do with Chuka's mob


----------



## ska invita (Mar 16, 2019)

Not sure where that quote comes from but "both the Lib Dems and Tig have dismissed talk of any kind of merger" may be technically true but it isnt the whole picture
There has been endless talk about 'arrangements' between the two groups in the press, often coming from Cable himself
Vince Cable: I’ll build a new home for Labour rebels

Last time i looked the impression was definitely agreement about an informal arrangement so they wouldnt stand against each other, and that regular meetings were taking place about a common strategy. From Cables mouth below:


ska invita said:


> Vince Cable confirms that there will be weekly meetings between LD and TINGE, and was prepared to go as far as to say there will be some kind of "arrangement" around who will stand in which seats.



TINGE want to form a 'party' by the autumn (conference season?) and Lib Dems are now going through another moment of change - a new leader will have the choice whether to align more closely with TINGE or not. Cable was broadly supportive  - it will be mildly interesting to see what the new leader does about it, if anything. Logic dictates they should form an alliance, but who knows.


----------



## Tankus (Mar 16, 2019)

is it dead yet?


----------



## andysays (Mar 16, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Not sure where that quote comes from but "both the Lib Dems and Tig have dismissed talk of any kind of merger" may be technically true but it isnt the whole picture
> There has been endless talk about 'arrangements' between the two groups in the press, often coming from Cable himself
> Vince Cable: I’ll build a new home for Labour rebels
> 
> ...



Sorry, meant to include link. It came from here
What next for the Liberal Democrats?


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 19, 2019)

I don’t like to mock people’s appearance but I didn’t realise Nick Parks and Aardman had resurrected Spitting Image.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Not sure where that quote comes from but "both the Lib Dems and Tig have dismissed talk of any kind of merger" may be technically true but it isnt the whole picture
> There has been endless talk about 'arrangements' between the two groups in the press, often coming from Cable himself
> Vince Cable: I’ll build a new home for Labour rebels
> 
> ...


Tinge will get tango'd


----------



## kabbes (Mar 19, 2019)

Dom Traynor said:


> View attachment 164938
> 
> I don’t like to mock people’s appearance


Then don’t


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Tinge will get tango'd



Be careful mixing yellow and orange, you could end up with Amber!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Be careful mixing yellow and orange, you could end up with Amber!


and then you're buggered


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> and then you're buggered



Only if there’s a lot of money changing hands!


----------



## Argonia (Mar 19, 2019)

Where did Aleister Crowley go, Pickman's, and who has replaced him?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Where did Aleister Crowley go, Pickman's, and who has replaced him?


ac resting, and no one knows


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 19, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Then don’t


Yeah sorry I meant I don’t mind.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 19, 2019)

Dom Traynor said:


> Yeah sorry I meant I don’t mind.


Then you’re a prick and hiding behind not being one isn’t very clever


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 19, 2019)

Do you want to work for the Tinge?


w4mp | The site for everyone working for an MP


----------



## Argonia (Mar 19, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> Do you want to work for the Tinge?
> 
> 
> w4mp | The site for everyone working for an MP



I notice they are looking for press officers on a three month contract. Do they perhaps sense that they aren't going to last very long?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 19, 2019)

trying to work out what 3 months of 40k PA works out at. A lot I recon


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> trying to work out wat 3 months of 40k PA works out at. A lot I recon



One quarter.


----------



## Manter (Mar 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> trying to work out what 3 months of 40k PA works out at. A lot I recon


C2.5k pcm


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 19, 2019)

Manter said:


> C2.5k pcm


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 19, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> trying to work out what 3 months of 40k PA works out at. A lot I recon



Is it in accounts?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 19, 2019)

Manter said:


> C2.5k pcm



Report for extra maths lessons.


----------



## Manter (Mar 19, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Report for extra maths lessons.


I took tax and nic off. You would take home about 2.5k per month


----------



## Manter (Mar 19, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


>


40k post tax is between 30-33k pa usually (ie no tax credits, not married, no withholdings etc) but I used 30k because it was easier to do the monthly amount in my head


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 20, 2019)

Manter said:


> I took tax and nic off. You would take home about 2.5k per month



It's 3 months at the start of the tax year, so the £10k would fall within their personal allowance.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 20, 2019)

Unemployable after they've finished the contract then?


----------



## Manter (Mar 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's 3 months at the start of the tax year, so the £10k would fall within their personal allowance.


....as long as they have no other employment or source of income, have a pta and can persuade the Tax office they won’t earn anything else.

Though why we are scenario planning for an imaginary person is beyond me


----------



## Argonia (Mar 20, 2019)

two sheds said:


> Unemployable after they've finished the contract then?



Imagine having the Tiggers on your CV. Kiss of death.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 20, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Imagine having the Tiggers on your CV. Kiss of death.


i'd like to have them in a 2cv as the car judders over beachy head

nowhere near enough space to have them on my 2cv


----------



## Badgers (Mar 23, 2019)

It Appears Chuka Umunna Is Being Funded By One Of The Tories' Biggest Donors

Never knew this


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 23, 2019)

Badgers said:


> It Appears Chuka Umunna Is Being Funded By One Of The Tories' Biggest Donors
> 
> Never knew this



And he's always been so keen to say and do extremely tory things. What an extraordinary coincidence.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2019)

tbf to Gapes, he's the only one of the lot that can rock the wrong'un down 'spoons look...


----------



## chilango (Mar 24, 2019)

.


----------



## chilango (Mar 24, 2019)

brogdale said:


> tbf to Gapes, he's the only one of the lot that can rock the wrong'un down 'spoons look...
> 
> View attachment 165530


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2019)

chilango said:


>



...but not from 'spoons resident wrong'un...he's fwends with no fucker...


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2019)

brogdale said:


> tbf to Gapes, he's the only one of the lot that can rock the wrong'un down 'spoons look...
> 
> View attachment 165530


"_Right everybody, don't forget it's the big demo thing on Saturday. Wear your Nandos clothes_"


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 25, 2019)

Joan Ryan now acting as an attack dog against Iihan Omar on behalf of the AIPAC thugs:

MP who quit UK Labour over anti-Semitism warns AIPAC ‘things can change quickly’

And in the UK the Jewish Chronical are claiming that any Labour MP who doesn’t resign are guilty of supporting anti-semitism. What a bunch of crackpots.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 29, 2019)

The Tiggers are registering as a party called - Change UK.



> The Independent Group has registered to become a political party named Change UK, and will look to stand in European elections which are set to take place in May of this year.
> 
> The group has also named Heidi Allen as its interim leader, ahead of its first leadership election at their party conference in September.
> 
> The Independent Group registers to become political party Change UK | JOE.co.uk


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 29, 2019)

Independent Group applies to become political party to stand in EU elections

Brexshit doesn't mean Brexshit!


----------



## Serge Forward (Mar 29, 2019)

Spare Change UK.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 29, 2019)

change, who expressly want to dial it back to 2012.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 29, 2019)

Heidi Allen named as leader.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> Spare Change UK.


they'd get more votes if they were hitsville uk


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 29, 2019)

Who said a Tigger can't change its stripes/colours/mind ?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 29, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> they'd get more votes if they were hitsville uk


Or even Biscuitville, UK.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Or even Biscuitville, UK.


----------



## Rob Ray (Mar 29, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Heidi Allen named as leader.



So Chuka can't even gain the leadership of a party he expressly set up so he could be leader. Excellent.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> So Chuka can't even gain the leadership of a party he expressly set up so he could be leader. Excellent.


no wonder auld corbo walked out of that meeting the other day


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> So Chuka can't even gain the leadership of a party he expressly set up so he could be leader. Excellent.


the only way cu could become leader of a party is if he was the only member


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 29, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> So Chuka can't even gain the leadership of a party he expressly set up so he could be leader. Excellent.


Asked how this was decided, Allen said "without any arguments or fighting", which seemed a slightly odd thing to offer unprompted... 

She also explcitly mentioned Umunna as spokesperson, "him coming from Labour, and then me coming from the Tories...".


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 29, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Independent Group applies to become political party to stand in EU elections
> 
> Brexshit doesn't mean Brexshit!



"Change UK" is so bland and generic you could expect it on Smooth FM.


----------



## binka (Mar 29, 2019)

Oviously Umunna will be made leader at conference, this is just him trying to look magnanimous and it not being all about him. For now.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 29, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Asked how this was decided, Allen said "without any arguments or fighting", which seemed a slightly odd thing to offer unprompted...
> 
> She also explcitly mentioned Umunna as spokesperson, "him coming from Labour, and then me coming from the Tories...".



Good to see 'he knows his place' I suppose


----------



## 8ball (Mar 29, 2019)

I assume "Change" is meant ironically.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 29, 2019)

8ball said:


> I assume "Change" is meant ironically.



It's just more of 1984 doublespeak bollocks...'change, where we do the same things in another name.'


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 29, 2019)

binka said:


> Oviously Umunna will be made leader at conference, this is just him trying to look magnanimous and it not being all about him. For now.


I did notice Allen is being described as 'interim' leader...


----------



## andysays (Mar 29, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> I did notice Allen is being described as 'interim' leader...


Was about to mention that - apparently they're choosing the proper leader at their conference.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> I did notice Allen is being described as 'interim' leader...


yeh interim = until cu quits


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2019)




----------



## rasputin (Mar 29, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> "Change UK" is so bland and generic you could expect it on Smooth FM.



Still, they can now be known as the "CHUKers." It makes up for Chukka not being leader.


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 29, 2019)

Hey, Chucka, how about Avaas? I think that’s going free...


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2019)

It does make me laugh, since they seem to have come into existence because they dont like the changes that have happened to the mainstream of politics since the peak days of neo-liBlairism.

If they run into problems with the name then maybe they could consider Small Change instead.


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2019)

With rousing campaign slogans such as "Yes We Can't", "Entropy for Me", "Chuka Chumps for the Stumps".


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 29, 2019)

How’s that hopey changey thing working out for y’all?

Sad thing is that the BBC/Guardian will be right up their arse the whole way, as a means to fuck over Labour. I did predict a few weeks ago that the EU elections would be their thing, one chance to make an impact while there’s still some interest. Hope they fall on their arses.


----------



## Fez909 (Mar 29, 2019)

Some on the internet, on bye election results: CUK HOLD

Funny, but unlikely to ever pass as first they need to win something to hold.


----------



## Supine (Mar 29, 2019)

How did the tigs vote in the indicative vote? Did they do it as a group or did they vote differently to each other?


----------



## likesfish (Mar 29, 2019)

well one of them might get a mep job as we elect any old shit to europe see the traitor hannan for example.


----------



## Supine (Mar 29, 2019)

Hahaha


----------



## eatmorecheese (Mar 29, 2019)

'Icarus' would be a more appropriate name imo


----------



## agricola (Mar 29, 2019)

eatmorecheese said:


> 'Icarus' would be a more appropriate name imo



If we are going to use tales from the classical world as a guide for TIG names, then you won't find a more apt one for them than Peregrinus.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 30, 2019)

Legal challenge from change.org apparently. And just seem them referred to as the "chuk or cuk" party.


----------



## Cid (Mar 30, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Legal challenge from change.org apparently. And just seem the referred to as the "chuk or cuk" party.



Wouldn't call em cuk, that word has too many associations (well, cuck).


----------



## likesfish (Mar 30, 2019)

It is funny s fuck (I'm easily amused)
chukka is officially a cuk


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 31, 2019)

The way things are going in the tory party (highlighted by grieves de-selection) and the likely hood that the next leader will be an out and out brexiteer (or at least posing at one) id say the CHUKups are most likely to get any future defections from the social liberal/remain wing of the tory party.

And  Labour remainer voters who dont like labour's brexit policy  already have green or lib dem -(or welsh nats and SNP) to choose from. Given the policies and...  er ..."personalities"  in the tinge - i reckon  they are more likely to take votes of remain orientated tory voters (although that is not a particularly large pool either).

I think they are already an irrelevance. Their shitty politics, their intention to vote with the government in a no-confidence motion - and to oppose a general election -plus their refusal to stand down and force by elections -  will be hung round their necks by their opponents to expose them as unprincipled, narcissistic opportunists .


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2019)

Heidi Allen has just come out against railway nationalisation, not exactly in tune with the public mood then.


----------



## killer b (Apr 1, 2019)

treelover said:


> Heidi Allen has just come out against railway nationalisation, not exactly in tune with the public mood then.


They've just worked out their growth market is sensible tory centrists is all.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2019)

Missed the question, but in response to Reese-Mogg, Soubry just said "the majority of [her constituency] did not vote Conservative, and as an MP I represent _all_ my constituents".

Not sure it's very wise to introduce that argument in the current context...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2019)

treelover said:


> Heidi Allen has just come out against railway nationalisation, not exactly in tune with the public mood then.



Well that's a guaranteed vote winner, and well worthy of the name Change UK.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 14, 2019)

their polling isn't too looking too great - sub 5%. and apparently some of those have polled were pro-leavers who said they'd vote for them based purely on their name.


----------



## kenny g (Apr 14, 2019)

In our fast forwards political arena they seem heading for a remarkably quick SDPish future. Look forwards to watching them lose their seats.


----------



## gosub (Apr 14, 2019)

kenny g said:


> In our fast forwards political arena they seem heading for a remarkably quick SDPish future. Look forwards to watching them lose their seats.



Think they might make gains in other areas


----------



## andysays (Apr 14, 2019)

gosub said:


> Think they might make gains in other areas


Really? I'd be fascinated to hear which other areas you think they're likely to make actual gains in (which I take to mean winning actual seats) either in the so-to-be-held Euro elections or in the next GE


----------



## gosub (Apr 14, 2019)

andysays said:


> Really? I'd be fascinated to hear which other areas you think they're likely to make actual gains in (which I take to mean winning actual seats) either in the so-to-be-held Euro elections or in the next GE


I'm currently in North East Hants - largest tory majority in the Commons, voted 52% remain, with a staunch ERG supporting MP , to the point local UKIIP dissolved itself.   The council is NOC, but thats purely because the Lib Dems in the largest town here grasped it is a tainted brand and stood as a rebranded NIMBY group.
Labour don't get a look in.. Ummuna/Soubry lot potentially could shake up local politics here more than anything else in decades.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Apr 14, 2019)

whenever these cancer and vermin talk about their ‘political values’ I am reminded of this:


----------



## agricola (Apr 14, 2019)

So Stephen Dorrell, then?


----------



## tim (Apr 14, 2019)

gosub said:


> Think they might make gains in other areas



No!


----------



## tim (Apr 14, 2019)

agricola said:


> So Stephen Dorrell, then?



Dorrel Defecating could be a game changer for other has-beens from the 80s and 90s seeking a last 15 seconds of political change.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 14, 2019)

so what is chukka going to do with his post political career?
tv
selling face cream


----------



## Argonia (Apr 14, 2019)

My bet is he'll work for a hedge fund


----------



## teqniq (Apr 14, 2019)

He already has at least one well-paid consultancy.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 14, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> their polling isn't too looking too great - sub 5%. and apparently some of those have polled were pro-leavers who said they'd vote for them based purely on their name.



And minor parties usually do less well than polling would suggest IIRC, on account of people changing their minds in the booth and picking a safe /familliar option instead.


----------



## agricola (Apr 14, 2019)

likesfish said:


> so what is chukka going to do with his post political career?
> tv
> selling face cream



I have a recurring nightmare that he will go down the direct entry Superintendent route.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 14, 2019)

well he talks in management bollocks so would be a slide in


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Apr 14, 2019)

Currently meeting with fellow racist, neo-liberal Nancy Pelosi:


----------



## andysays (Apr 14, 2019)

gosub said:


> I'm currently in North East Hants - largest tory majority in the Commons, voted 52% remain, with a staunch ERG supporting MP , to the point local UKIIP dissolved itself.   The council is NOC, but thats purely because the Lib Dems in the largest town here grasped it is a tainted brand and stood as a rebranded NIMBY group.
> Labour don't get a look in.. Ummuna/Soubry lot potentially could shake up local politics here more than anything else in decades.


All eyes on NE Hants next time then...


----------



## agricola (Apr 14, 2019)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Currently meeting with fellow racist, neo-liberal Nancy Pelosi:




It will be at least interesting to learn who paid for that trip.


----------



## gosub (Apr 14, 2019)

andysays said:


> All eyes on NE Hants next time then...


Politics is broken and the fissures are intersting.  I doubt Ranal will lose his seat but its ripe for a mix up.  Also an interesting area in Tory heartland that has no sub identity beyond English not like the Geirdies Londobers Welsh etc So an obstercal to federal UK which enough people who voted No in the Scottish referendum were holding out for.


Everywhere is different, but can't see things will go back to how things were. The genie is out of the bottle


----------



## Balbi (Apr 15, 2019)

No Chuka but you've got Mike 'MIWK' Gapes front and centre there...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2019)

Voice of the youth.


----------



## andysays (Apr 15, 2019)

gosub said:


> Politics is broken and the fissures are intersting.  I doubt Ranal will lose his seat but its ripe for a mix up.  Also an interesting area in Tory heartland that has no sub identity beyond English not like the Geirdies Londobers Welsh etc So an obstercal to federal UK which enough people who voted No in the Scottish referendum were holding out for.
> 
> 
> Everywhere is different, but can't see things will go back to how things were. The genie is out of the bottle



Not sure how any of that points to Chuka's chums as likely to make actual gains, TBH


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2019)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Currently meeting with fellow racist, neo-liberal Nancy Pelosi:


----------



## Wilf (Apr 15, 2019)

Corbyn looks quite anxious about the hot cross buns.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2019)

He's wondering where the toaster is. And who is is this strong mad woman in front of me.


----------



## gosub (Apr 15, 2019)

andysays said:


> Not sure how any of that points to Chuka's chums as likely to make actual gains, TBH


I not sure gains as such, many of the MP"s that split will lose their seats.. But I think they could take others say assuming Kate Joey keeps her candidacy who does a hunt sabing pro EU Labour voter in her constuency vote for (shall find out Saturday) The dynamics on the fissure on that side are different but still in play.


The biggest draw backs to new parties are funding (and I suspect this mob have easy access to cash (as WS Burroughs advised "watch whose money you pick up") And media coverage the formula for that, based on previous votes, screws them - but social media is a bigger thing these days, and while it won't be enough to help dissemi ate their message its a strong enough platform for them to get over how heavily the deck is stacked, which helps them


----------



## 19sixtysix (Apr 15, 2019)

likesfish said:


> so what is chukka going to do with his post political career?



probably get a seat next to Jim Murphy working for Bliar.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2019)

gosub said:


> I not sure gains as such, many of the MP"s that split will lose their seats.. But I think they could take others say assuming Kate Joey keeps her candidacy who does a hunt sabing pro EU Labour voter in her constuency vote for (shall find out Saturday) The dynamics on the fissure on that side are different but still in play.
> 
> 
> The biggest draw backs to new parties are funding (and I suspect this mob have easy access to cash (as WS Burroughs advised "watch whose money you pick up") And media coverage the formula for that, based on previous votes, screws them - but social media is a bigger thing these days, and while it won't be enough to help dissemi ate their message its a strong enough platform for them to get over how heavily the deck is stacked, which helps them


Hoey increased her majority since brexit. She is not getting taken out by anyone - except maybe labour members. Madness.


----------



## gosub (Apr 15, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Hoey increased her majority since brexit. She is not getting taken out by anyone - except maybe labour members. Madness.


So says Bristol (iirc)


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2019)

gosub said:


> So says Bristol (iirc)


Is there some reason why someone from bristol can't do the basic thought required? You are not in vauxhaull either - and you can? Odd post. Here's the figures for all to see.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2019)

An FBPE wave that could overturn a 20,000 majority would be quite a thing. Historically unprecedented I'd have thought.


----------



## gosub (Apr 15, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Is there some reason why someone from bristol can't do the basic thought required? You are not in vauxhaull either - and you can? Odd post. Here's the figures for all to see.


It's not an odd post. What I am saying is what is it three years of watching the political class demonstrate that it doesn't know one end of a telescope from another - locallized weather conditions are going to be a bigger factor than people think


----------



## Serge Forward (Apr 15, 2019)

Odds on the Tinge all lose their seats... hopefully the odd lost deposit too


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 15, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> Odds on the Tinge all lose their seats... hopefully the odd lost deposit too


the odd lost deposit for the odd mps.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 15, 2019)

I hope Miwk Gapes keeps his seat. Then he can build ChUK into a party, taking MP's from the South and MP's from the North, all mixed together to make MIWK.


----------



## Serge Forward (Apr 15, 2019)

Balbi said:


> No Chuka but you've got Mike 'MIWK' Gapes front and centre there...



What the fuck is that??? Tell me it's real


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 15, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> What the fuck is that??? Tell me it's real



Of course it's real  Do you doubt the Majesty of Miwk Gapes? 

**in the actual speech he says Bailey's, not Miwk. But apart from that it's all real.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 15, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> What the fuck is that??? Tell me it's real





It's the MIWK of human kindness


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 15, 2019)

Balbi said:


> It's the MIWK of human kindness




The MIWK of Mother Nature's Son


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 15, 2019)

gosub said:


> It's not an odd post. What I am saying is what is it three years of watching the political class demonstrate that it doesn't know one end of a telescope from another - locallized weather conditions are going to be a bigger factor than people think



Nah. She's got a massive majority, and most of those are not going to suddenly turn libdem or tinge just because of brexit. They will vote for her because she is labour. They will mostly have heard of her, at least, which is more than you can say for many mps. Looking her up, she nominated John McDonnell for the leadership in 2010. She's no new labour stooge - my guess is that many voters will quite like her.


----------



## gosub (Apr 15, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nah. She's got a massive majority, and most of those are not going to suddenly turn libdem or tinge just because of brexit. They will vote for her because she is labour. They will mostly have heard of her, at least, which is more than you can say for many mps. Looking her up, she nominated John McDonnell for the leadership in 2010. She's no new labour stooge - my guess is that many voters will quite like her.


The schism in the Labour party is a different fish, on EUrope ain't nothing so bad a song round the piano of the coach and Horses can't hold together, but the Labour/ New Labour thing that's ripe, and Brixton "s a bit gentrified these days ain't it.

Think some will have a go at deselection


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 15, 2019)

gosub said:


> The schism in the Labour party is a different fish, on EUrope ain't nothing so bad a song round the piano of the coach and Horses can't hold together, but the Labour/ New Labour thing that's ripe, and Brixton "s a bit gentrified these days ain't it.


Bit like Islington since Corbyn has been an MP? Surely a big chunk of the new people will want a radical MP? I'd be amazed if Hoey were deselected, and even more amazed if she didn't keep most if not all of her majority at the next election.

Despite being very strongly remain, Labour's London seats are not about to be gobbled up by some new 'centrist' remain group. In terms of getting into power, that's not Labour's problem, mind you - far more of a problem I would have thought in leave areas such as the Black Country.


----------



## agricola (Apr 15, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bit like Islington since Corbyn has been an MP? Surely a big chunk of the new people will want a radical MP? I'd be amazed if Hoey were deselected, and even more amazed if she didn't keep most if not all of her majority at the next election.



She's already had a vote of no confidence and if any Labour MP gets deselected it will surely be her.  What happens after that is anyone's guess - she could keep the seat as an independent, especially as the worst sort of people linked to Progress would flock to what they think is a safe seat.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2019)

I wouldn't be amazed if she was deselected tbh - but there's also a good chance there won't be a selection anyway, as she'll be automatically reselected if there's a snap election.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2019)

agricola said:


> she could keep the seat as an independent,


lol no chance.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 15, 2019)

agricola said:


> She's already had a vote of no confidence and if any Labour MP gets deselected it will surely be her.  What happens after that is anyone's guess - she could keep the seat as an independent, especially as the worst sort of people linked to Progress would flock to what they think is a safe seat.


Is that the one that happened last year? 

She's been a bit odd recently in her voting - voted against May's deal last time it was up, having previously voted for it.


----------



## Funky_monks (Apr 16, 2019)

gosub said:


> I'm currently in North East Hants - largest tory majority in the Commons, voted 52% remain, with a staunch ERG supporting MP , to the point local UKIIP dissolved itself.   The council is NOC, but thats purely because the Lib Dems in the largest town here grasped it is a tainted brand and stood as a rebranded NIMBY group.
> Labour don't get a look in.. Ummuna/Soubry lot potentially could shake up local politics here more than anything else in decades.



To be honest, I've got a feeling that, if anything they will split the Tory vote and not the Labour vote.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2019)

So...it's official; ChUK it is!



> Change UK has been formally registered as a political party, allowing the new centrist movement founded by former Labour and Tory MPs to field candidates for the European elections.
> 
> The group, led by former Conservative Heidi Allen, has received more than 3,700 expressions of interest in being a candidate in the European elections and is polling around 4%-7% for the contest, meaning it could win MEPs.



Bet Gavin's excited.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 16, 2019)

brogdale said:


> So...it's official; ChUK it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


as is - is that heidi allen?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 16, 2019)

> The Commission - which is responsible for overseeing elections in the UK - rejected the group's proposed emblem, however, which was a black square with white writing, saying: "TIG #Change."
> 
> A spokeswoman from the Commission said: "The emblem contained a hashtag, and we cannot assess the material linked to a hashtag, which will change over time, against the legal tests.
> Change UK approved for European elections



 

Fucking hell, that's the best they could come up with.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 167919
> 
> Fucking hell, that's the best they could come up with.


Piss poor and completely missing the point about image recognition and illiteracy.


----------



## elbows (Apr 16, 2019)

> "The emblem also contained the acronym TIG, which we were not satisfied was sufficiently well known."


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 16, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 167919
> 
> Fucking hell, that's the best they could come up with.


two minutes' work:


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 16, 2019)




----------



## elbows (Apr 16, 2019)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 16, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> two minutes' work:



Likewise...


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 16, 2019)




----------



## JuanTwoThree (Apr 16, 2019)

ChUKnumps?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 16, 2019)

up chuk!


----------



## colacubes (Apr 16, 2019)

killer b said:


> I wouldn't be amazed if she was deselected tbh - but there's also a good chance there won't be a selection anyway, as she'll be automatically reselected if there's a snap election.



The local party have been trying to deselect her for years and haven't managed it yet. Although weirdly, from what I've heard, now might be the time as Progress and Momentum both dislike her. But like you say if there's a snap election they won't be able to, and frankly they haven't got their shit together to do it so far.

Others have pointed out on other threads that she is very popular among some voters locally as she's by all accounts very good with constituency work, especially amongst the council estates and has done a lot of work helping residents stand up to shit from Lambeth Council. She was my MP at one point before boundary changes and I had cause to write to her a few times and she always responded very quickly. I can't stand her views on Brexit personally, but a lot of people equally couldn't give two shits about it as an issue either way. If she's still the candidate she'll win.


----------



## killer b (Apr 16, 2019)

colacubes said:


> The local party have been trying to deselect her for years and haven't managed it yet. Although weirdly, from what I've heard, now might be the time as Progress and Momentum both dislike her. But like you say if there's a snap election they won't be able to, and frankly they haven't got their shit together to do it so far.


the last opportunity to actually deselect her was in the run up to the 2015 GE, when I don't imagine there would have been any call to deselect her as brexit wasn't an issue for the vast majority of people so her views on it will have been pretty insignificant. Things have changed a lot since then, and I'd say there's a very good chance of her being deselected if we make it to 2022. IIRC the opportunity to trigger a competition is around 12 months before the date of the expected next GE - it doesn't matter how organised the local opposition to Hoey is before then.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 16, 2019)

Ugh. It could be so long before the next election the ChUK party actually builds up a profile - especially if they get some MEP's elected


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 16, 2019)

killer b said:


> the last opportunity to actually deselect her was in the run up to the 2015 GE, when I don't imagine there would have been any call to deselect her as brexit wasn't an issue for the vast majority of people so her views on it will have been pretty insignificant. Things have changed a lot since then, and I'd say there's a very good chance of her being deselected if we make it to 2022. IIRC the opportunity to trigger a competition is around 12 months before the date of the expected next GE - it doesn't matter how organised the local opposition to Hoey is before then.


tbh my comment was made on the the assumption that there would be an election this year, which I think there will be. If we make it to 2022 without an election, we're truly fucked.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 16, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> tbh my comment was made on the the assumption that there would be an election this year, which I think there will be. If we make it to 2022 without an election, we're truly fucked.



I still think we'll have an election this year, but not before the Euro's unless we all pull our fingers out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2019)

I predict that whatever I predict will happen will not quite happen that way.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 16, 2019)

Watchdog rejects Independent Group's 'misleading' European elections logo



> In a blow for the new group, the Electoral Commission said the party’s choice of emblem for ballot papers - a black square with the initials "TIG" and the hashtag "#change" - was "likely to mislead voters".
> 
> And it said their chosen acronym was not “sufficiently well known” to give the public a clear idea of who they were backing when they mark their crosses next month....


----------



## binka (Apr 16, 2019)

brogdale said:


> So...it's official; ChUK it is!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


3700 applications to stand as an MEP? Every one of them of the calibre of Stephen fucking Dorrell as well I imagine.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 16, 2019)

binka said:


> 3700 applications to stand as an MEP? Every one of them of the calibre of Stephen fucking Dorrell as well I imagine.


Well I have no idea why a new party with about a dozen members would receive thousands of 'expressions of interest' from people looking to stand for a position paying over £70k a year.


----------



## binka (Apr 16, 2019)

emanymton said:


> Well I have no idea why a new party with about a dozen members would receive thousands of 'expressions of interest' from people looking to stand for a position paying over £70k a year.


Well exactly there's an awful lot of very mediocre people looking for a nice pay day!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 16, 2019)

IIRC the Brexit Party claims to have over 9,000 'expressions of interest' from people wanting to stand for them.

I think I may as well apply to both, hedge my bet.


----------



## binka (Apr 16, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> IIRC the Brexit Party claims to have over 9,000 'expressions of interest' from people wanting to stand for them.
> 
> I think I may as well apply to both, hedge my bet.


 I read earlier that the brexit party was charging £100 to apply to be a candidate. I read it in a comment on either conservative home or order order so its probably bollocks but I'd  really like it to be true


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 16, 2019)

binka said:


> I read earlier that the brexit party was charging £100 to apply to be a candidate. I read it in a comment on either conservative home or order order so its probably bollocks but I'd  really like it to be true


Hence 'expressions of interest'. 

'Hi, I'd like to stand for you.' 

'Ok, put 100 quid to this paypal account and we'll get an application form right off to you.' 

'Er, ok. I'll get back to you.'


----------



## binka (Apr 16, 2019)

Best I could find


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 16, 2019)

binka said:


> I read earlier that the brexit party was charging £100 to apply to be a candidate. I read it in a comment on either conservative home or order order so its probably bollocks but I'd  really like it to be true



£100? Fuck that, I am only prepared to take a punt with small Change.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 16, 2019)

Expressions of interest are the new PMs of support


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 16, 2019)

To be fair, the sort of people applying to stand for the Brexit party probably do need some serious vetting.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 16, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> To be fair, the sort of people applying to stand for the Brexit party probably do need some serious vetting.


The sort of people who would be vetting candidates for the Brexit party probably need some serious vetting.


----------



## binka (Apr 16, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> To be fair, the sort of people applying to stand for the Brexit party probably do need some serious vetting.


I'm sure they already know who they're going to have at the top of their lists, this is definitely just a nice little earner


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 16, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> To be fair, the sort of people applying to stand for the Brexit party probably do need some serious vetting.



You mean neutering?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 16, 2019)

teqniq said:


> Watchdog rejects Independent Group's 'misleading' European elections logo



i'll offer them this


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> i'll offer them this
> 
> View attachment 167967


But the reality is even better...the logo box on any ballot paper containing one of the cunts will appropriately just be a blank, empty, vacant, vacuous and a plain white square.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 16, 2019)

emanymton said:


> Well I have no idea why a new party with about a dozen members would receive thousands of 'expressions of interest' from people looking to stand for a position paying over £70k a year.


Being an MEP must just be about the easiest job in the world, massive salary, generous expenses and you have to do fuck all.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 16, 2019)

Change UK appoints MPs’ partners to top jobs

Changing politics, by, er...



Also no surprise Davidson worked in the MIIIIWWWWWWWWKK industry.


----------



## killer b (Apr 16, 2019)

I don't think any left organisation can really criticise this kind of nepotism with a straight face, let's be honest.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 17, 2019)

killer b said:


> I don't think any left organisation can really criticise this kind of nepotism with a straight face, let's be honest.


Also I don't imagine they have a massive pool of people to draw on.


----------



## kebabking (Apr 17, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 167935



Is it not a, umm.. little bit ISIS?


----------



## Poi E (Apr 17, 2019)

ISIS had principles.


----------



## andysays (Apr 17, 2019)

emanymton said:


> Also I don't imagine they have a massive pool of people to draw on.


Hang on, I thought they'd had 'thousands of expressions of interest', surely *some* of those people must be capable, or at least as capable as the 'partners' they've appointed, which may not be saying much...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2019)

Poi E said:


> ISIS had principles.


I mean, say what you want about the tenets of salafist jihadism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 17, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> Being an MEP must just be about the easiest job in the world, massive salary, generous expenses and you have to do fuck all.



Plus, if you use your car and ferries/euro tunnel you can fill up with cigs and booze every trip and have a nice little sideline.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 17, 2019)

Brexit Party MEP bit of a shoe in lots of gammon are going to vote as a protest £70k a year loads of expenses and a pension given most of UKIP MEP's fucked off you don't even have to listen too saint nige.


----------



## gosub (Apr 17, 2019)

killer b said:


> I don't think any left organisation can really criticise this kind of nepotism with a straight face, let's be honest.


Somebody"s brother (or sista) always gets the job


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 17, 2019)

ChUK just need some cannon fodder for the elections, plus £100 will do nicely for the "vetting". The vetting consists of a box on the application form asking you to list all your previous Twitter handles, Facebook names and other social media accounts. Get a couple of interns on it...


----------



## mauvais (Apr 19, 2019)

This is fun: #Change UK – really? If you don’t get the internet, you shouldn’t be in politics | The Independent Group | The Guardian


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 19, 2019)

mauvais said:


> This is fun: #Change UK – really? If you don’t get the internet, you shouldn’t be in politics | The Independent Group | The Guardian





> The best that centrists can imagine is a glorious return to the sunlit uplands of “just before Jeremy Corbyn became Labour leader”. They want change, but only inasmuch as they think they should be in charge so they can explain to you why your dreams of a better world are unrealistic.



word


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 19, 2019)

> They want to be seen as radicals but they have the same relationship to genuine political activism that talking English loudly and slowly does to speaking a foreign language.


----------



## mojo pixy (Apr 19, 2019)

I want to join the quotathon...

"There is also the deep irony of running as the Change party when your entire reason for existing is that politics already changed and you don’t like it."

lol


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 19, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> I want to join the quotathon...
> 
> "There is also the deep irony of running as the Change party when your entire reason for existing is that politics already changed and you don’t like it."
> 
> lol


after the next election they will be the spare change party, elbowing their way past the homeless and indigent to demand money from passers-by on the basis of their former glory


----------



## mojo pixy (Apr 19, 2019)

"We want change! The kind of change that gives us _moar powah!_"


----------



## Poi E (Apr 19, 2019)

Would someone please summarise their policy?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Would someone please summarise their policy?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 19, 2019)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 168297


One of those orwellian faces


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 19, 2019)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 168297


Clearly savouring the bouquet of one of his own farts in that one.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 20, 2019)

Good to see their spiritual king really emphasising how Labour wasn't racist before Corbyn took over by rehashing classic New Labour racism....

Tony Blair: migrants should be forced to  integrate more to combat far right


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 20, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Good to see their spiritual king really emphasising how Labour wasn't racist before Corbyn took over by rehashing classic New Labour racism....
> 
> Tony Blair: migrants should be forced to  integrate more to combat far right


He manages even now to descend to new depths


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Apr 20, 2019)

Also, did none of the MPs who resigned from their previous parties, or their advisers, query the wisdom of calling their new party Change UK, which will get abbreviated to CUK, which sounds like cuck, the alt-right's favourite insult? 

I mean UKIP MPs, members and supporters get called Ukippers or 'Kippers, so why no one thought that those associated with CUK might become known, pejoratively or otherwise, as Cuks, is baffling.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 21, 2019)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Also, did none of the MPs who resigned from their previous parties, or their advisers, query the wisdom of calling their new party Change UK, which will get abbreviated to CUK, which sounds like cuck, the alt-right's favourite insult?
> 
> I mean UKIP MPs, members and supporters get called Ukippers or 'Kippers, so why no one thought that those associated with CUK might become known, pejoratively or otherwise, as Cuks, is baffling.



It’s not really baffling, they are all just thick as pig shit.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2019)

Albeit from an obviously sympathetic (probably LibDemish) poster, this comment on Smithson's Political Betting site makes a few interesting points about the political premature ejaculation that is/was ChUKa...

_“..Sad to say, I am beginning to think that TIG has blown its chance. They ducked the opportunity to do a policy declaration a la Limehouse, because *both Tory and Labour defectors wanted to cling to the belief that “they didn’t leave their party, it left them”, which obviously doesn’t compute.* So there was no call to arms for people looking for a new approach to politics._

_They oversold the prospect of getting a steady flow of recruits. Even on political reform only Chuka has tried to set out a comprehensive agenda, leaving doubts as to what their MPs really think about PR or Lords reform. Their social media performance has been somewhat lame. Their choice of namedoesn’t really work and their very poor logo wasn’t accepted by the EC. They gave a cold shoulder to the LibDems and don’t really seem to understand what it means to be a third party in our political system.

Now it looks like they could become merely a vehicle for former MPs who lost their seats and former MEPs rejected by the main parties to try and resurrect their careers. Candidates chosen and ordered into a list by an opaque interview process, because they don’t yet have any formal membership structure. An end point a very long way from the change they initially promised. Indeed aside from Chuka’s political reform speech and some stirring opposition to Brexit from Soubry and Leslie, it isn’t clear what they actually offer, and it certainly doesn’t appear to include very much ‘change’.

The sadness is that if they fail, it will close off the chance for others to do a better job. Leaving Farage as the only chance of ‘breaking the mould’ – and he is surely likely to lose interest once Brexit is out the way, whatever he says now about his longer term objective.”
_​That first bolded point seem an important one and along with the death of RW media interest as soon as they absorbed Tory MPs, seems set to limit their impact.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 21, 2019)

I don't think they are standing in the Council elections which would give a more accurate picture of their base but they are in the Euros .


----------



## Balbi (Apr 21, 2019)

They've massively underestimated party loyalty and enmity between the two big parties, and ridiculously overinflated their own sense of authentocratic reputation with 'the voters', the quasi-mythical group they believed supported them when it became clear their own party's membership thought they were duplicitous careerist hacks.


----------



## nogojones (Apr 21, 2019)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 168297


It's like a really stoned version of that Tory twat stance.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 21, 2019)

chukkas a cuk is neither not going to be funny


----------



## Ted Striker (Apr 23, 2019)

They've come out in support of TM (in the face of a vonc)  Seemingly because it increases the risk of a GE (and de-selection).

Essentially they've backed themselves into that corner and it pretty much details their main manifesto issue: avoid a GE at all costs.


----------



## Augie March (Apr 23, 2019)

Ironic that a party calling itself Change, literally doesn't want to change anything at all


----------



## Poi E (Apr 23, 2019)

The more things change...


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2019)

Poi E said:


> The more things change...


... the more political opportunists show how flexible they can be


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2019)

Augie March said:


> Ironic that a party calling itself Change, literally doesn't want to change anything at all


They’re doing the job that they’re supposed to do. Say they’re offering a choice to the electorate, while making sure there’s no choice for the electorate.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 23, 2019)

They've got Boris Johnson's sister as a candidate.


----------



## andysays (Apr 23, 2019)

And former BBC journo Gavin Esler, apparently. 

Seems they're standing 70 candidates. Doesn't the MEP voting system involve some form of PR or STV or something? And if so could they sneak in an MEP where they'd struggle to get an MP under FPTP?


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2019)

andysays said:


> And former BBC journo Gavin Esler, apparently.
> 
> Seems they're standing 70 candidates. Doesn't the MEP voting system involve some form of PR or STV or something? And if so could they sneak in an MEP where they'd struggle to get an MP under FPTP?


they need to get over a certain percentage (varies depending on region as there's different numbers of MPs per region) to be in contention. Current polling = 0 MEPs.


----------



## andysays (Apr 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> they need to get over a certain percentage (varies depending on region as there's different numbers of MPs per region) to be in contention. Current polling = 0 MEPs.


Thanks


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 23, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They've got Boris Johnson's sister as a candidate.



At least that will piss off Boris, which has got to be a good thing.


----------



## TopCat (Apr 23, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They've got Boris Johnson's sister as a candidate.


Amazing.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 23, 2019)

South East has 10 seats, the biggest region. If they managed to get voters to see them as the place to do Remain protests they might squeak a seat. Otherwise, can't see it, particularly as the lib dems and greens are standing candidates.

Edit: London also (8 seats). But still unlikely.


----------



## andysays (Apr 23, 2019)

Wilf said:


> South East has 10 seats, the biggest region. If they managed to get voters to see them as the place to do Remain protests they might squeak a seat. Otherwise, can't see it, particularly as the lib dems and greens are standing candidates.
> 
> Edit: London also (8 seats). But still unlikely.





Wilf said:


> South East has 10 seats, the biggest region. If they managed to get voters to see them as the place to do Remain protests they might squeak a seat. Otherwise, can't see it, particularly as the lib dems and greens are standing candidates.
> 
> Edit: London also (8 seats). But still unlikely.


Those two regions seem the most likely for pro-Remain parties, though not necessarily Chuka's mob.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 23, 2019)

andysays said:


> Those two regions seem the most likely for pro-Remain parties, though not necessarily Chuka's mob.


Yes. More generally, turnout could work in odd ways in this election. Might well be that the committed on both sides turn out more than the rest. Alongside Tory voters shifting to the swivel eyed parties, there might also be the phenomena of Labour voters and even Libdems staying at home.


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2019)

Outside of the established politicians, a lot of the Change / TIG list have what political profile they have from gobbing off about it on twitter - Esler, Weetman & the lawyer they've announced (I forget her name and their website - which doesn't show up when you google 'change UK' - doesn't have a list yet) are all mad FBPE types.


----------



## TopCat (Apr 23, 2019)

Interim leader Heidi Allen told the event in Bristol: "These elections are a chance to send the clearest possible message - we demand a People's Vote and the right to campaign to remain in the European Union. We are not afraid to say it as clearly as that."


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 23, 2019)

andysays said:


> And former BBC journo Gavin Esler, apparently.
> 
> Seems they're standing 70 candidates. Doesn't the MEP voting system involve some form of PR or STV or something? And if so could they sneak in an MEP where they'd struggle to get an MP under FPTP?


It's the d'Hondt Method of voting if you fancy some bed tine reading.


----------



## andysays (Apr 23, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> It's the d'Hondt Method of voting if you fancy some bed tine reading.


Of course, the system devised by Victor D'Hondt, a Belgian lawyer and mathematician active in the 19th Century, how could I forget...

The D'Hondt system: How MEPs get elected in Britain


----------



## Wilf (Apr 23, 2019)

andysays said:


> a Belgian lawyer and mathematician active in the 19th Century


... less so since then.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2019)

Who got a vote on that?


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 23, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Who got a vote on that?


The EU itself legislated that all members had to use a form of PR for electing MEPs. Prior to that, the UK had a series of mahoosive FPtP mega-constituencies.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> The EU itself legislated that all members had to use a form of PR for electing MEPs. Prior to that, the UK had a series of mahoosive FPtP mega-constituencies.


Not me then. Ta.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 23, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> The EU itself legislated that all members had to use a form of PR for electing MEPs. Prior to that, the UK had a series of mahoosive FPtP mega-constituencies.


I vaguely remember that the UK government just nominated Euro MEPs in proportion to the number of Westminster seats, the first time round (early 70s, from memory).


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2019)

I'm not much of a fan of trial by Twitter callout, but I guess if you live by the sword, die by the sword...

Change UK candidate said he wants Brexit if it stops Romanian pickpockets


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> I'm not much of a fan of trial by Twitter callout, but I guess if you live by the sword, die by the sword...
> 
> Change UK candidate said he wants Brexit if it stops Romanian pickpockets



Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.


----------



## binka (Apr 23, 2019)

So they've chosen a former finance minister of Poland to be on the London list. Does anyone know anything about him? Who will be surprised when it turns out he's a massive cunt too?


----------



## imposs1904 (Apr 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> I'm not much of a fan of trial by Twitter callout, but I guess if you live by the sword, die by the sword...
> 
> Change UK candidate said he wants Brexit if it stops Romanian pickpockets



3000 people applied to be candidates for CH:UK, and they pick this prick. That's funny.


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2019)

They turned down Richard Dawkins for _this_?


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 23, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Interim leader Heidi Allen told the event in Bristol: "These elections are a chance to send the clearest possible message - we will all be unemployed at the next general election, "


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> They turned down Richard Dawkins for _this_?


Denied him thrice.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 23, 2019)

imposs1904 said:


> 3000 people applied to be candidates for CH:UK, and they pick this prick. That's funny.



You're assuming any of those 3000 were less awful.


----------



## kebabking (Apr 23, 2019)

I didn't know there were 3000 Guardian columnists...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 23, 2019)

kebabking said:


> I didn't know there were 3000 Guardian columnists...



Comment Is Free innit.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 23, 2019)

So the selection process was, likely, the CUK MPs and their employed family scrolling through CVs and looking for famous names - because they've got no membership or party structure


----------



## Balbi (Apr 23, 2019)

Another candidate probably gonna have to withdraw soon...


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Another candidate probably gonna have to withdraw soon...



They're falling like ukip candidates


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2019)

Balbi said:


> So the selection process was, likely, the CUK MPs and their employed family scrolling through CVs and looking for famous names - because they've got no membership or party structure


Nor have they a clue


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2019)

kebabking said:


> I didn't know there were 3000 Guardian columnists...


To be fair there are 20 columnists and 2980 support staff to correct their mistakes. But there are so many it's no surprise a few creep through


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Denied him thrice.


Like Peter denied jesus


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 23, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Another candidate probably gonna have to withdraw soon...




At least the Tiggers are demonstrating that that line about "Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a racist but every racist voted for Brexit" is complete bollocks.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2019)

Maybe a useful point in the thread to ask the question...does anybody know what this political party is actually called?


----------



## Serge Forward (Apr 23, 2019)

Cunts UK


----------



## Balbi (Apr 23, 2019)

Lokomotiv Hubris


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 23, 2019)

Labour Party was too racist for these types I seem to recall. Obviously there is a certain level of racism that is acceptable to them.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 23, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Lokomotiv Hubris



Superb


----------



## rekil (Apr 23, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Lokomotiv Hubris


Beige Star Belgravia.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 24, 2019)

Another one here...



And another...



Fuck lol this guy is #1 in Scotland...



And, waaaaait for it...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2019)

LSE & the Statesman, I know, I know...but Ypi makes some sound points in her TIG piece (?...whateverthefucktheycallthemselvesthesedays):



> Like its moderate ancestors in the 18th and 19th century, TIG is a creation of parliament rather than mass publics or social movements. Instead of offering genuine change, it resurrects a problematic past, displaying the same contempt for ordinary people and the same distrust of democracy as centrist politics in the 18th and 19th century.
> 
> Change is needed, but it will not emerge from a group of professional politicians whose democratic antipathies run so deep that they oppose by-elections. To revive democracy we must depart from the trustee model of representation and consolidate radical democracy.


----------



## Augie March (Apr 24, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Maybe a useful point in the thread to ask the question...does anybody know what this political party is actually called?



They are a radical, seismic shift in UK politics and therefore have no need for these primitive things we call "party names". 

No, they will simply change with the seasons. Never committing to an ideology at any one given time but moving forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Another one here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this stuff is all pretty funny, but it's thin - I don't think it's likely to have much purchase beyond left twitter, who were never going to vote for these maniacs in the first place.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 24, 2019)

The most cringe worthy thing I've ever seen. 



Did anyone see them getting called the Judean People's Front on Newsnight last night?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 24, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> The most cringe worthy thing I've ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone see them getting called the Judean People's Front on Newsnight last night?



it's much better with the sound off


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> this stuff is all pretty funny, but it's thin - I don't think it's likely to have much purchase beyond left twitter, who were never going to vote for these maniacs in the first place.


Wrong again - Joseph Russo is out. Two down.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 24, 2019)

Cracking vetting, they haven't even asked something as basic as 'is this guy a nonce (apologist)'.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

TBF this stuff is difficult - 'pederastic' and 'gary glitter' probably aren't on the list of red flag terms they were asked to consider - I assume a lot of the stuff coming out is from files people have been keeping on the weirdos for years, rather than someone getting lucky on searching their social media.

It's a bit worrying tbh - who needs the stasi when we can all keep tabs on each other?


----------



## Wilf (Apr 24, 2019)

They missed out on Ann Widdecombe, she's standing for farage's lot. I'm _so_ looking forward to this election.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Widdecombe will be an asset to The Brexit Party IMO - ex-tory big beast, very popular with the tory shires and widely liked in the country. She's a smart choice.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Widdecombe will be an asset to The Brexit Party IMO - ex-tory big beast, very popular with the tory shires and widely liked in the country. She's a smart choice.


Yep, hard to imagine a more dangerous opponent for the tories in what will be a circus style election. She's both serious _and_ populist and will be a conduit for ex-tory voters who feel they want to vote for farage without ceasing to be tories. Will drag a fair few labour leave voters across as well. Fucking hell, what shit times we live in when all of that might be true.  But hey, it does fuck the tories.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> It's a bit worrying tbh - who needs the stasi when we can all keep tabs on each other?



In Ben Elton's re-imagining of 1984 there is no need for Big Brother as everyone puts all their most personal information on the web for anyone to look at...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 24, 2019)

To be fair, it's not like it's ordinary normal people getting grassed up here, just the kind of weirdos who want to be TIG candidates


----------



## belboid (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> It's a bit worrying tbh - who needs the stasi when we can all keep tabs on each other?


that's exactly how the stasi worked, getting neighbours to grass on one another.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> To be fair, it's not like it's ordinary normal people getting grassed up here, just the kind of weirdos who want to be TIG candidates


sure, but you can be sure that - were you to poke your head above the parapet politically - your enemies would take the exact same route to discrediting you.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

belboid said:


> that's exactly how the stasi worked, getting neighbours to grass on one another.


yeah, but we manage the whole process now - no need to grass _to_ anyone, we can just post the reciepts on twitter and let nature take it's course.


----------



## editor (Apr 24, 2019)

It's going brilliantly



> Joseph Russo, who was announced as the party’s top candidate for Scotland just yesterday, had said: “Black women scare me. I put this down to be chased through Amsterdam by a crazy black wh***”.
> 
> 
> In another tweet, he had also said: “I wonder if there’s a c*** / anchovy correlation. One smells like the other.”
> ...


Second Change UK candidate resigns in 24 hours after 'crazy black wh***' remarks emerge


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

I don't get what's starred out in 'crazy black wh***' - any ideas?


----------



## Argonia (Apr 24, 2019)

Ore, as in iron


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> sure, but you can be sure that - were you to poke your head above the parapet politically - your enemies would take the exact same route to discrediting you.


It's a kind of accelerated evolution in which the 'survival of the fittest' ensures that only folk smart enough to have anonymised their more honest social media life will be make it through the process of selection/adoption. We'll be left with an even purer cohort of devious sociopaths.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Mulready is next up. 

Change UK candidate in Islamophobia row after Muslim terrorist and Tommy Robinson comments emerge


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

I have very mixed feelings about all this, but it's pretty funny.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 24, 2019)

Jesus H Christ on a bike.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 24, 2019)

christ - where did these people come from? Can anybody apply to be a candidate for the CHUKs? Are they their mates or just randoms who fancied a cushy job in the European parliament.  Might fancy it myself. How do i apply?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2019)

Looks like they were attracted by the TInGe comment.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> sure, but you can be sure that - were you to poke your head above the parapet politically - your enemies would take the exact same route to discrediting you.



Fair. I'd best kill 'em all then, in case I ever want to be an MEP.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 24, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> christ - where did these people come from? Can anybody apply to be a candidate for the CHUKs? Are they their mates or just randoms who fancied a cushy job in the European parliament.  Might fancy it myself. How do i apply?



They had 3700 applications to stand as an MEP for them, hence this post...



cupid_stunt said:


> IIRC the Brexit Party claims to have over 9,000 'expressions of interest' from people wanting to stand for them.
> 
> I think I may as well apply to both, hedge my bet.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> christ - where did these people come from? Can anybody apply to be a candidate for the CHUKs? Are they their mates or just randoms who fancied a cushy job in the European parliament.  Might fancy it myself. How do i apply?


Mulready made a name for herself as a Blairite critic of Corbyn during the Haringey Council clusterfuck last year, finally resigning from the party a few days before she was due to be disciplined for something or the other - IIRC she was given a byline in one of the national newspapers to rant about it. All this material was well known and circulated then - I can only assume CUK knew about it and didn't think it mattered (I dunno yet whether it does).


----------



## Wilf (Apr 24, 2019)

So basically, this lot have the tactical nous of the lib dems, combined with the racism of UKIP? ((((Mould breakers)))))


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Speaking of the Lib Dems, this strategy document detailing how TIG plan to overtake them has been leaked today...


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 24, 2019)

Wilf said:


> So basically, this lot have the tactical nous of the lib dems, combined with the racism of UKIP? ((((Mould breakers)))))


c is for crass, but not like the group
h is for horrible, tho they think it's fun
a is for arseholes, which is all of the troop
n is for nous, of which they have none
g is for greedy, which all of them are
and e is for eejits, which they take us all for

u is for useless and k is for kunts
there ends my rhyme, and i've said it once


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 24, 2019)

They're a million miles away from even being able to compete with the shriveled rump of the Lib-Dems aren't they.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Speaking of the Lib Dems, this strategy document detailing how TIG plan to overtake them has been leaked today...


does np stand for new party like the auld mosley vehicle?


----------



## agricola (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Speaking of the Lib Dems, this strategy document detailing how TIG plan to overtake them has been leaked today...



"Supporter" and "supporter list" is a bit of a giveaway there, contrasted as it is with activists / members.  _Yes, you can by all means support us but no, you won't be able to do anything that a member does.  That is the old politics._


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Speaking of the Lib Dems, this strategy document detailing how TIG plan to overtake them has been leaked today...


To sum:

"Electoral reform"
"Shamima Begum"
"Brexit"
"Mental Health"


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

more


"Electoral reform"
"Shamima Begum"
"Brexit"
"Mental Health"
....
.......
.........
Profit


----------



## Brainaddict (Apr 24, 2019)

The entire project is genuinely hilarious and I'm getting a lot of pleasure from it. These are people whose egos are so out of proportion to their political competence that at a time when centrist politics is crumbling across the Western world, when the UK's own centrist party has been dealt a blow from which it may never recover, these people got up one day and said: 'I know, what the UK really wants is another centrist party'. They will quickly fall into the obscurity they so richly deserve even without these public cock-ups with candidates. And they did the best possible thing they could do to improve to the Labour Party too, so everybody wins really. Except them


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2019)

In it's own way, quite impressive:


----------



## editor (Apr 24, 2019)

Keep 'em coming!



> Change UK has been dragged yet another racism row, after one of its candidates was accused of pedalling “anti-Muslim tropes” and “legitimising the far-right”.
> 
> Nora Mulready, who is standing for the party in the coming European Parliamentelections, had conflated Islam with terrorism, suggesting it was a “fallacy that Islamism is nothing to do with Islam” and that radical Islamism could be “Koranically justified”.
> 
> ...



Change UK candidate in Islamophobia row after Muslim terrorist and Tommy Robinson comments emerge


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 24, 2019)

editor said:


> Keep 'em coming!
> 
> 
> 
> Change UK candidate in Islamophobia row after Muslim terrorist and Tommy Robinson comments emerge


we've already had her


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 24, 2019)

So, how long do we think before one of them is found to have said something appallingly anti-Semitic?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 24, 2019)

also noticeable how lacking they are in well known candidates - other the mps  who have they got. any well known journos? ex-mps? Any famous 2nd ref/remainers amongst them? slebs? 
Brexit party have anne widdicomb and clare fox  standing - yeah i know - but they have some sort of profile - the CHUK clowns ... who the fuck are they? It hardly smacks of catching the mood of the country does it?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Speaking of the Lib Dems, this strategy document detailing how TIG plan to overtake them has been leaked today...



That's basically a football club whose 5 year plan is "get more fans than Man Utd, announce on Twitter that we have more fans than Man Utd, win the premier league".


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> also noticeable how lacking they are in well known candidates - other the mps  who have they got. any well known journos? ex-mps? Any famous 2nd ref/remainers amongst them? slebs?
> Brexit party have anne widdicomb and clare fox  standing - yeah i know - but they have some sort of profile - the CHUK clowns ... who the fuck are they? It hardly smacks of catching the mood of the country does it?



They have Boris Johnson's sister (who is always in the Evening Standard but no one really knows why or what she does).  They also have some ex journo called Gavin Esler or something.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 24, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> also noticeable how lacking they are in well known candidates - other the mps  who have they got. any well known journos? ex-mps? Any famous 2nd ref/remainers amongst them? slebs?
> Brexit party have anne widdicomb and clare fox  standing - yeah i know - but they have some sort of profile - the CHUK clowns ... who the fuck are they? It hardly smacks of catching the mood of the country does it?


Are you suggesting Gavin Esler doesn't come with his own personality cult?


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> also noticeable how lacking they are in well known candidates - other the mps  who have they got. any well known journos? ex-mps? Any famous 2nd ref/remainers amongst them? slebs?
> Brexit party have anne widdicomb and clare fox  standing - yeah i know - but they have some sort of profile - the CHUK clowns ... who the fuck are they? It hardly smacks of catching the mood of the country does it?


A lot of them are quite famous on twitter for being perfomatively angry at Jeremy Corbyn.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 24, 2019)

I'm in work and the pub next door is, most annoyingly, playing dire straits quite loudly. That's pretty much the Chuks.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 24, 2019)

Another way of thinking about the chuks is when that twat in a white suit, Martin Bell, stood against Neil Hamilton (and Christine Hamilton really). They are like a Frankenstein mixture of all 3 of them - timid, self righteous and fucking annoying, all at the same time.

And they've _still_ got dire straits blaring out.


----------



## Mr Moose (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> TBF this stuff is difficult - 'pederastic' and 'gary glitter' probably aren't on the list of red flag terms they were asked to consider - I assume a lot of the stuff coming out is from files people have been keeping on the weirdos for years, rather than someone getting lucky on searching their social media.
> 
> It's a bit worrying tbh - who needs the stasi when we can all keep tabs on each other?



There are a lot of people to remember stuff, esp journos or those who knew you when you claimed to be right on. Like Claire Fox having to answer plenty of questions now she has hitched herself to Farage’s wagon. 

And good, let her ridiculous libertarianism get the once over. She’s been given the chance to hold forth unopposed long enough.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Mr Moose said:


> Claire Fox having to answer plenty of questions now she has hitched herself to Farage’s wagon.


Is she having to? Where?


----------



## kabbes (Apr 24, 2019)

They’re so near the truth with that memo but they’ve just missed it.  The truth, that is, that they are the Lib Dems with less money, less support, no boots on the ground and no clear way of getting any of this.  With the consequence that they aren’t going to swallow the Lib Dems, it’s going to be the other way round.


----------



## MickiQ (Apr 24, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Another way of thinking about the chuks is when that twat in a white suit, Martin Bell, stood against Neil Hamilton (and Christine Hamilton really). They are like a Frankenstein mixture of all 3 of them - timid, self righteous and fucking annoying, all at the same time.
> 
> And they've _still_ got dire straits blaring out.


Burn it to the ground


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2019)

kabbes said:


> They’re so near the truth with that memo but they’ve just missed it.  The truth, that is, that they are the Lib Dems with less money, less support, no boots on the ground and no clear way of getting any of this.  With the consequence that they aren’t going to swallow the Lib Dems, it’s going to be the other way round.


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 24, 2019)

The People's Vote campaign lot must be holding their heads in their hands.  This lot are basically sinking the idea below the waterline by barging themselves to front and centre of it and then becoming such an obvious focus of ridicule.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 24, 2019)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 168856



They look uncannily like Cable and Chuckie.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> I have very mixed feelings about all this, but it's pretty funny.



Aye, I think the combo of them expensively outsourcing their getting combined with left twitter quite swiftly doing the job for free and the ongoing fuckery of their entire Comms strategy is too good not to have a laugh at.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2019)

I had thought to myself that these lot wouldn't survive an election but I expected them to crumble in a domestic election rather than the euros lol.


----------



## Mr Moose (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Is she having to? Where?



Well ok, I overstate, but on Politics Live she was grilled over her scepticism about Serbian war crimes, her ‘contrarian’ views, which really pissed her off, because she considers that hanging out with Farage doesn’t revoke her ‘leftism’ (the left moved, she explained) and on Twitter plenty of folk laying into her about her support for wrongness as diverse as Gary Glitter’s ‘right’ to download child porn and GM foods.

Worst of all Tim Montgomerie described her as a ‘National Treasure’.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Mr Moose said:


> Well ok, I overstate, but on Politics Live she was grilled over her scepticism about Serbian war crimes, her ‘contrarian’ views, which really pissed her off, because she considers that hanging out with Farage doesn’t revoke her ‘leftism’ (the left moved, she explained) and on Twitter plenty of folk laying into her about her support for wrongness as diverse as Gary Glitter’s ‘right’ to download child porn and GM foods.
> 
> Worst of all Tim Montgomerie described her as a ‘National Treasure’.


I just watched her slot on politics live, she walked it. Loads of people would nod along with that.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 24, 2019)

tbf martin bell won which the cuks have no chance.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Speaking of the Lib Dems, this strategy document detailing how TIG plan to overtake them has been leaked today...



Given Chuka and Allan, I think, actually wrote articles on Lib Dem sites explaining how CUK weren't trying to occupy Lib Dem territory - this is a fantastic way to further bankrupt your claims of 'new politics'


----------



## Mr Moose (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> I just watched her slot on politics live, she walked it. Loads of people would nod along with that.



She got an easy ride, was allowed not to have her claims to be of the left or a feminist met with the contradictions of her position. She's one and the same with Mad Mel and Burchill who can all speak well for five minutes and have you nodding along until you try to unpick the hostility.

So on multiculturalism, ok fine, identity politics is a curse, but don't go on about it at every opportunity until you share a stage with Farage. You are then talking to an audience that only has one nuance in mind.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Mr Moose said:


> She got an easy ride, was allowed not to have her claims to be of the left or a feminist met with the contradictions of her position. She's one and the same with Mad Mel and Burchill who can all speak well for five minutes and have you nodding along until you try to unpick the hostility.
> 
> So on multiculturalism, ok fine, identity politics is a curse, but don't go on about it at every opportunity until you share a stage with Farage. You are then talking to an audience that only has one nuance in mind.


I think Fox's role is to let people who consider themselves broadly 'left' give themselves permission to vote Farage, and if that performance is anything to go by she's a decent investment.


----------



## treelover (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> Is she having to? Where?




JO on Politics Live robustly pushed her, on the Camp issue, but also defending GM Crops, basically being a corporate stooge

ah, already answered.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

mate I just watched it, she had no problems there at all.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

robust my arse. no sustained questioning, just each point put to her to be batted away, which she did with ease. Coburn's pursed lips =/= 'robust'


----------



## Mr Moose (Apr 24, 2019)

killer b said:


> I think Fox's role is to let people who consider themselves broadly 'left' give themselves permission to vote Farage, and if that performance is anything to go by she's a decent investment.



Yes that’s her role for Farage. She’s got no value for the rest of us.


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2019)

Well, no. But nor is she having to account for herself in any meaningful way, which is where we came in.


----------



## Augie March (Apr 25, 2019)

I've just realised that Crispin Mills, lead singer of crap britpop band Longpigs, is a CUK candidate and now I can't stop laughing


----------



## Ted Striker (Apr 25, 2019)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> That's basically a football club whose 5 year plan is "get more fans than Man Utd, announce on Twitter that we have more fans than Man Utd, win the premier league".



Tbf, for 20 years, every manager hired was done so under "find and hire the next Wenger" page of the 'be like Arsenal' strategy of spend sod all and win everything .

Only Christian Gross turned out to be not quite the saviour we all hoped for.

But I digress...


----------



## Ted Striker (Apr 25, 2019)

Augie March said:


> I've just realised that Crispin Mills, lead singer of crap britpop band Longpigs, is a CUK candidate and now I can't stop laughing



(((((Kula Shakers reputation))))


----------



## Augie March (Apr 25, 2019)

Ted Striker said:


> (((((Kula Shakers reputation))))



Wrong Crispin. Millsy is standing for the BNP I think...


----------



## Augie March (Apr 25, 2019)

God I hope whoever announces that council's results makes the same Crispin mixup I did and calls him Mills instead and plays Hush after they announce he's lost his deposit


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 25, 2019)

As someone I know on Facebab observed, ‘Change UK’ sounds like a shit national charity shop chain.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 25, 2019)

After losing the London bloke to the Romanian stuff and the Scottish bloke to the sex worker stuff, TIG are circling the wagons around Nora Mulready.


----------



## Santino (Apr 25, 2019)

I saw Longpigs support Space, and Jarvis Cocker was in the audience until he got fed up of people like me staring at him and he stormed off in a huff.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 25, 2019)

belboid


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 25, 2019)

Augie March said:


> Wrong Crispin. Millsy is standing for the BNP I think...



Crispin Hunt on vocals for Longpigs, no?

So many Crispins.  How many Crispins did you go to school with folks?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Apr 25, 2019)

killer b said:


> I think Fox's role is to let people who consider themselves broadly 'left' give themselves permission to vote Farage, and if that performance is anything to go by she's a decent investment.



She’s a more skilled propagandist than I’d previously thought. I can see how people who aren’t familiar with her schtick, don’t know her background and don’t know who supports her could be taken in by her pseudo-leftism around Brexit.


----------



## Augie March (Apr 25, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Crispin Hunt on vocals for Longpigs, no?



He sure is but I said Mills in my OP. Always get those two mixed up, much like how I get CUK and Tories mixed up...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 25, 2019)

"Mike Gapes, the party’s foreign affairs spokesperson, said: “Seems that far left trot trolls and cultists are worried about @TheIndGroup hence all the vile abuse and lies being directed at some of our candidates today.


“It’s all a tactic designed to divert attention from the abject failures of the pro Brexit Corbyn Labour. It won’t work.”"

Change UK says criticism by Muslim community groups is 'smear campaign'

E2A:


----------



## Poi E (Apr 25, 2019)

No shortage of right wing parties in England, to be sure.


----------



## Riklet (Apr 26, 2019)

It's so refreshing to see these twats failing.


----------



## HungryTommy (Apr 26, 2019)

Chukka's not a bad guy, one of the few Labourites i like

funny, how they made a nice white, attractive,female,  middle class ex-Tory, leader though, hmm


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 26, 2019)

HungryTommy said:


> Chukka's not a bad guy, one of the few Labourites i like



Welcome to the boards.

Pile on in 5... 4... 3..


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2019)

HungryTommy said:


> Chukka's not a bad guy, one of the few Labourites i like
> 
> funny, how they made a nice white, attractive,female,  middle class ex-Tory, leader though, hmm


If you really liked him you'd do him the courtesy of spelling his name right


----------



## Argonia (Apr 26, 2019)

HungryTommy said:


> Chukka's not a bad guy, one of the few Labourites i like



He's not a fucking Labourite though is he? He's a fucking cuk.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 26, 2019)

Argonia said:


> He's not a fucking Labourite though is he? He's a fucking cuk.



That's a really poor use of that 'joke'.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 26, 2019)

HungryTommy said:


> Chukka's not a bad guy, one of the few Labourites i like
> 
> funny, how they made a nice white, attractive,female,  middle class ex-Tory, leader though, hmm



We're not bad people but you won't like us. Go away.


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 26, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> We're not bad people...



Speak for yourself, I'm a right dick.  Pissed myself laughing when Bambi's mother died.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 26, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Speak for yourself, I'm a right dick.  Pissed myself laughing when Bambi's mother died.



It's all relative. Bambi's mother was fictional so that's not actually as amoral as you think it is.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 26, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Speak for yourself, I'm a right dick.  Pissed myself laughing when Bambi's mother died.





SpackleFrog said:


> It's all relative. Bambi's mother was fictional so that's not actually as amoral as you think it is.



I laughed when Wills and Harry's ma died in that Parisian tunnel. Also not amoral


----------



## HungryTommy (Apr 27, 2019)

I'd say the Cuck party is kinda racist for not having Chukka as leader


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2019)

HungryTommy said:


> I'd say the Cuck party is kinda racist for not having Chukka as leader


...and sekcist and all.

2/10


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 27, 2019)

Or kinda racist for, um, the racist stuff party representatives keep coming out with.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Apr 27, 2019)

Since when did alt right terms like 'cuck/cuk' become acceptable around here?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Since when did alt right terms like 'cuck/cuk' become acceptable around here?


Tbf, when used without the context of explanation or irony, they are a very useful heuristic for the mods.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 27, 2019)

Activist quits Change UK claiming it is ‘riddled with distrust’

paywalled so can only read the first bit - but still pretty funny. Although im intrigued about the nature of  the  "grassroots movement" of a three month old party formed by an MPs focus group and funded by banks


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 27, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Activist quits Change UK claiming it is ‘riddled with distrust’
> 
> paywalled so can only read the first bit - but still pretty funny. Although im intrigued about the nature of  the  "grassroots movement" of a three month old party formed by an MPs focus group and *funded by banks*



Aaron playing both sides now then?


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 27, 2019)

Meanwhile, I see that this utter arsehole "Hungry Tommy* has now been banned. Thanks, mods


----------



## Poi E (Apr 27, 2019)

Shit trolling, too. Wonder how he found the site?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Shit trolling, too. Wonder how he found the site?


Intellectually taxing, I'd imagine.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 27, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Shit trolling, too. Wonder how he found the site?



Been here before I suspect -- they usually have


----------



## teqniq (Apr 27, 2019)




----------



## likesfish (Apr 27, 2019)

I mean Chuka the cuk is funny because they named their stupid party with an unfortunate acronym. So you can call him a CUK to your heart's content as its an accurate description and a fairly pathetic pun.
  but then change UK is fairly pathetic we are backing the PM not to hold a general election as we are disappearing up are own arseholes when the voters get a say.


----------



## Funky_monks (Apr 27, 2019)

Ukip leader endorses Change UK candidate accused of Islamophobia

Well, this probably shouldn't have made me chuckle, but it did.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 27, 2019)

Love the way they accuse any critics of being from the ‘hard left’ as though that’s more than a couple of dozen people these days. Mainstream social democrats are the new dangerous radicals apparently.


----------



## treelover (Apr 27, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> "Mike Gapes, the party’s foreign affairs spokesperson, said: “Seems that far left trot trolls and cultists are worried about @TheIndGroup hence all the vile abuse and lies being directed at some of our candidates today.
> 
> 
> “It’s all a tactic designed to divert attention from the abject failures of the pro Brexit Corbyn Labour. It won’t work.”"
> ...




That is exactly the mirror image of groups like Labour Against The Witch Hunt, etc.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 27, 2019)

Chris Leslie of the CUK's has a real brain-melt about 'THE HARD LEFT', as seen here where he defends now departed Dugher and gets his 'the haaaarrd left' on


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 27, 2019)

treelover said:


> That is exactly the mirror image of groups like Labour Against The Witch Hunt, etc.



You're the exact mirror image of groups like Labour Against the Witch Hunt, etc.


----------



## treelover (Apr 28, 2019)

> Seriously though, let's just say that power and influence in Britain has been concentrated into the hands of a very small group of people these last few years.
> 
> Have a read: The address where Eurosceptics and climate change sceptics rub shoulders
> 
> ...



From CIF very interesting, all together?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 28, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Chris Leslie of the CUK's has a real brain-melt about 'THE HARD LEFT', as seen here where he defends now departed Dugher and gets his 'the haaaarrd left' on




The man's an abject cretin.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> You're the exact mirror image of groups like Labour Against the Witch Hunt, etc.


Your mum's the exact mirror image of groups like labour against the witch hunt.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 28, 2019)

Dawn Foster says Tribune is going to go pro-ChUK as an editorial line.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 28, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Your mum's the exact mirror image of groups like labour against the witch hunt.



Your mum's the exact mirror image of Witches Against the Labour Hunt.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 28, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Your mum's the exact mirror image of Witches Against the Labour Hunt.


I think my mum probably _is _witches against the Labour Hunt.


----------



## andysays (Apr 28, 2019)




----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Dawn Foster says Tribune is going to go pro-ChUK as an editorial line.
> 
> 
> 
> A minor issue I appreciate, but short space between relaunching to revive "a great tradition on the British left" and turning up to boost liberal racists.



Shes joking?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Shes joking?


Don't think so.



It's extremely deadpan if so.


----------



## killer b (Apr 28, 2019)

Shes deadpan, honest.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 28, 2019)

Dry as


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 29, 2019)

Duh yeah, of course it's a joke, I'm an idiot.


----------



## belboid (May 3, 2019)

A first bit of an electoral test for the Chukkies.  Steve Wilson, aka Mr Angela Smith, was up for his ward, having become an Indie (couldn't be a a formal Chuk as they didn't exist in time).

102 votes. Just over 2%, and not even enough to have caused the loss of the seat to the LibScum.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 3, 2019)

belboid said:


> A first bit of an electoral test for the Chukkies.  Steve Wilson, aka Mr Angela Smith, was up for his ward, having become an Indie (couldn't be a a formal Chuk as they didn't exist in time).
> 
> 102 votes. Just over 2%, and not even enough to have caused the loss of the seat to the LibScum.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 3, 2019)

These people actually think people know or care who the fuck they are


----------



## DotCommunist (May 3, 2019)

'winning elections! that is the old politics etc'


----------



## redsquirrel (May 3, 2019)

belboid said:


> A first bit of an electoral test for the Chukkies.  Steve Wilson, aka Mr Angela Smith, was up for his ward, having become an Indie (couldn't be a a formal Chuk as they didn't exist in time).
> 
> 102 votes. Just over 2%, and not even enough to have caused the loss of the seat to the LibScum.


Nice bit of good news to start the weekend, thanks belboid


----------



## Whagwan (May 7, 2019)

So today the professional sensibles in CHUKa/TIG changed their twitter handle.

Not such a big deal if they hadn't left the old one available for someone to hijack.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2019)

They really aren't going to do well in the Euro's, are they?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 7, 2019)

treelover said:


> They really aren't going to do well in the Euro's, are they?



Yeah they will, well shit.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 7, 2019)

in the euros its hard to see who will vote for them - for left leaning remainers the greens are a far more attractive option - unsullied by any sort of past history, contain no "former" or "might as well be" tories and have the added bonus of being all about the  2nd most important issue on the planter (after brexit obvs). 
That leaves tory remainers - some might go chuk - but why bother when you have the lib dems? who are the bigger brand and less likely to be a wasted vote. 
And - though its not directly connected the euro elections -  you then have their farcical strategy of bringing about a 2nd referendum by keeping the tories in power for as long possible. Its a gift to their opponents - they may as well pin a "kick me" sign on seat of their trousers. 
There really is no point in their existence, they represent nobody but themselves and a gaggle of hacks from the guardian.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 7, 2019)

It appears that changing from an established Twitter handle to another without much care or attention has resulted in four and twenty parody accounts springing up within minutes.


----------



## Balbi (May 7, 2019)

Again, they're massively over-estimating the electoral appeal of a mix of Tories and right wing Labour MPs who've spent three years trying to fuck their own party up.


----------



## Balbi (May 7, 2019)

If you want to cringe yourself inside out - here are their candidate biographies...

https://theindependent.group/mep-candidates/

Includes this utterly brilliant opening line


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2019)

Jesus. The cunt has been using that 'more lennonist than leninist' line since the 90s I bet.


----------



## Santino (May 8, 2019)

Imagine there's no Brexit.


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2019)

And I think I'm so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see
A middle class hero is something to be
A middle class hero is something to be


----------



## Argonia (May 8, 2019)

C.Hunt


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2019)

Argonia said:


> C.Hunt


I was curious whether Crispin Hunt was related to Tristram Hunt, so I did some googling - I've yet to establish a firm family connection, but what I did find was that Crispin Hunt is the stepson of Mark Fisher, the aristocratic former Labour MP for Stoke on Trent (and briefly minister for culture in Blair's first government), who's successor in Westminster was the slightly less aristocratic Tristram Hunt. 

Even if there is no family connection that's a lot of very posh people scratching each other's backs.


----------



## Augie March (May 8, 2019)




----------



## Lord Camomile (May 8, 2019)

Fuck me, is that actually their logo?? A barcode?


----------



## binka (May 8, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Fuck me, is that actually their logo?? A barcode?


Barcodes actually convey information


----------



## Sue (May 8, 2019)

binka said:


> Barcodes actually convey information


That's probably 'Garden peas 69p' or something though obviously more useful/informative than anything actually coming from them...


----------



## Balbi (May 9, 2019)

Here we, here we, here we fucking go


----------



## Gramsci (May 9, 2019)

As much as Im not keen on Chuka the recent Thornton heath by election ( one of the Council wards that make up Chuka patch) saw massive swing to the LDs with Labour almost losing the Council seat.

Imo the main reason was Brexit. Labour leadership are perceived to be sitting on the fence over Brexit. In Lambeth Labour ruling Council are for second referendum.

There are many other issues in Lambeth. Greens have picked up Council seats from disgruntled Labour voters over issues of libraries and housing.Greens are also anti Brexit which fits in with average Labour voter in Lambeth.



> The result was a real squeaker. Labour’s majority, in a ward that looked rock-solid a year ago, was slashed to 19 votes. Even in February the party had won by a comfortable margin of 309. Manley-Browne goes to the council chamber with the backing of 998 votes while Matthew Bryant fell only just short with 979. The swing from Labour to Lib Dem is 5.6 per cent since February and a massive 27 per cent since May 2018. While the scale of the movement owes a lot to campaigning effort that cannot be replicated everywhere, Labour would be unwise to ignore the result. *The two Thornton ward elections, and indeed the defection of the local MP, suggest that the party cannot take the liberal middle classes and the multicultural municipal estates that make up its London core vote for granted.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Lambeth: Labour scrapes home from Lib Dems in latest Thornton by-election - OnLondon
> ...


----------



## chilango (May 9, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Here we, here we, here we fuckingView attachment 170394 go


----------



## newbie (May 10, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> As much as Im not keen on Chuka the recent Thornton heath by election ( one of the Council wards that make up Chuka patch) saw massive swing to the LDs with Labour almost losing the Council seat.
> 
> Imo the main reason was Brexit. Labour leadership are perceived to be sitting on the fence over Brexit. In Lambeth Labour ruling Council are for second referendum.
> 
> There are many other issues in Lambeth. Greens have picked up Council seats from disgruntled Labour voters over issues of libraries and housing.Greens are also anti Brexit which fits in with average Labour voter in Lambeth.


As with the recent locals the turnout tells a story of serious disillusion with politicians.  There were 1,000 fewer voters, about 1/3, in the recent byelection than in May 2018.  Reading anything into the votes cast has to take that into account.


----------



## Gramsci (May 10, 2019)

newbie said:


> As with the recent locals the turnout tells a story of serious disillusion with politicians.  There were 1,000 fewer voters, about 1/3, in the recent byelection than in May 2018.  Reading anything into the votes cast has to take that into account.



As you and me are from are from Lambeth I also base my opinions on everyday interactions.

One of the things that frustrated Chuka was leadership position on Brexit. In that sense I think he was representing his constituents. It doesn't excuse him from leaving. Lambeth Labour party membership are , from my experience, mostly remain.

I don't know about you but I looked up my ward votes in referendum. It was 80% Remain.

And my ward is ( from Council stats on Coldharbour Ward) working class ward.




> the highest proportion of people from ethnic minorities, and a high proportion of people not born in
> UK. 4.8% of Coldharbour residents speak an African language as their first language, and 4% speak
> Portuguese. Coldharbour has the highest proportion of Black Caribbean residents, and the highest
> proportion of Black African residents. Less than a quarter of residents are White British.
> ...



I don't support the Progress led New Labour or Chuka. But imo the average Lambeth resident sees Brexit as something they don't support. The Labour party leadership aren't listening to inner city  London working class voters.

I'm right next to Moorlands, Loughborough and Loughborough estates. They aren't happy with Brexit.


----------



## Balbi (May 10, 2019)

So they booked Heidi Allan for HIGNFY tonight but realised with the elections on that's providing one party with an advantage. 

So they pulled the episode.

These wanks can't stand up for falling down.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 10, 2019)

Worth noting they were less concerned about sticking Farage on question time with a soft panel.


----------



## Balbi (May 11, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Worth noting they were less concerned about sticking Farage on question time with a soft panel.



Amusingly Heidi Allan has said the same, maybe forgetting her colleague Anna Soubry was also on QT, along with representatives of other parties.


----------



## newbie (May 11, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> As you and me are from are from Lambeth I also base my opinions on everyday interactions.
> 
> One of the things that frustrated Chuka was leadership position on Brexit. In that sense I think he was representing his constituents. It doesn't excuse him from leaving. Lambeth Labour party membership are , from my experience, mostly remain.
> 
> ...


Sorry I wasn't clear.  

I agree with pretty much all of that, this is a Remain area.  My point was that while it's true that in the Thornton ward byelection there was a 'massive swing' to the LDs, about 600 votes more than in the election in May 2018, it's also true that nearly 1,000 fewer people bothered to vote.  Turnout in byelections is always lower, but at 25% this is a lot lower than last time.  That may be down to purely local factors, perhaps including the local MP defecting, but more broadly that one ward can be read as either an endorsement of Remain or as disillusion with politicians around the referendum and the Brexit mess, 

The recent locals outside London can be read in the same ways: far more previous voters didn't vote than swung, but among those who did vote the main swing was towards the LDs.


----------



## likesfish (May 11, 2019)

tbf I will never forgive cuck UK for missing hignfy and honestly, I'd consider the BBC not actually covering any member of cuck UK with raw sewage dangerously partisan the only possible excuse is not having raw sewage close to hand


----------



## Dogsauce (May 11, 2019)

likesfish said:


> tbf I will never forgive cuck UK for missing hignfy and honestly, I'd consider the BBC not actually covering any member of cuck UK with raw sewage dangerously partisan the only possible excuse is not having raw sewage close to hand



Maybe Question Time needs to revive Noel Edmond’s gunk tank. They probably still have it sat in a storeroom somewhere.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 11, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Worth noting they were less concerned about sticking Farage on question time with a soft panel.





Balbi said:


> Amusingly Heidi Allan has said the same, maybe forgetting her colleague Anna Soubry was also on QT, along with representatives of other parties.



Another wankstain, Chris Leslie, a Chuckle UK MP,  has written an open letter to the BBC's director general asking him to explain why the show was pulled.



> He wrote: "The decision to withdraw this programme from air is all the more bizarre given the BBC’s decision to allow Nigel Farage to participate in an edition of ‘Have I Got News For You’ on 11th April 2014 ahead of the May 2014 European Parliamentary elections.
> 
> "Please can you explain whether the BBC editorial policy guidelines have changed between then and now, and if so why you have changed your approach?"
> 
> BBC hits back at bias claims after Heidi Allen's Have I Got News For You axed



Farage's appearance in 2014 was well outside the 25 day election period for Euro election, which the twat could have discovered from a quick google search , which took me about 10 seconds. 



> For European parliamentary elections, it is the last date for publication of the notice of election, which is 25 days before the election. In all cases the period ends with the close of the poll.
> 
> Section six: Elections and referendums



They really are a bunch of clueless fuckwits.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 11, 2019)

I think part of the problem for them is that it’s the ex-Tory chuk members that are mostly getting on TV, can’t see many Labour voters jumping aboard when Soubry is their public face.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> I think part of the problem for them is that it’s the ex-Tory chuk members that are mostly getting on TV, can’t see many Labour voters jumping aboard when Soubry is their public face.


I think many Labour supporters would be only too happy to jump on chuk's public face


----------



## kenny g (May 11, 2019)

One thing to look forwards to is these folks having their portilo moment. Unfortunately the odds are high we will be faced with years of BBC 4 programmes hosted by soubry and chuck as they traverse the bus, rail and ley lines of europe.


----------



## Poi E (May 11, 2019)




----------



## Poi E (May 11, 2019)

He's got the metropolitan media cornered


----------



## Funky_monks (May 11, 2019)

The definition of "rebel" appears to have changed somewhat.....


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 11, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> The definition of "rebel" appears to have changed somewhat.....



“What you rebelling against, Chuck?”

“What you got? Non-middle of the road Tory-lite politics, scum who wish to leave a political union with a neo-liberal super state. Corbyn”

Hero.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2019)

Poi E said:


>


Things are worse than I supposed if Chuka Umunna's a vanguard of c21 culture


----------



## Funky_monks (May 11, 2019)

This is a (soft R&B) rebel song......


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Things are worse than I supposed if Chuka Umunna's a vanguard of c21 culture



Fortunately he's actually just a nightmare hangover from the 1990's.


----------



## Augie March (May 12, 2019)

Poi E said:


>



That is fucking incredible. I thought it was a mock up at first but no, it's real. You can actually go into a WH Smiths and see a magazine proclaim Chuka as being a part of "the vanguard of 21st century culture". Unbelievable scenes


----------



## gosub (May 12, 2019)

Augie March said:


> That is fucking incredible. I thought it was a mock up at first but no, it's real. You can actually go into a WH Smiths and see a magazine proclaim Chuka as being part of "the vanguard of 21st century culture". Unbelievable scenes



Also starring Ricky Gervais....


no thankyou.


----------



## Augie March (May 12, 2019)

The Gervais one is great too



Disrupter hahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Augie March (May 12, 2019)

gosub said:


> Also starring Ricky Gervais....
> 
> 
> no thankyou.



Yep just saw that too! GQ clearly having a normal one


----------



## Poi E (May 12, 2019)

Gervais laughing at his own joke again.


----------



## binka (May 14, 2019)

On order order there's a piece about chuk infighting - Leslie siding with Soubry and Allen rather than Umunna. It's quite funny but that site is written by and for cunts so I don't want to link to it. Anyone else got a better source so we can all have a good laugh?


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 14, 2019)

binka said:


> On order order there's a piece about chuk infighting - Leslie siding with Soubry and Allen rather than Umunna. It's quite funny but that site is written by and for cunts so I don't want to link to it. Anyone else got a better source so we can all have a good laugh?



Well, as the Chuckle UK lot have seen their potential voting share go in the completely opposite direction to what they were hoping, it wouldn't surprise me if they are trying to blame each other for it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 14, 2019)

When they are all a bunch of useless fuckwits.


----------



## vanya (May 14, 2019)

All That Is Solid ...: The Allure of Change UK



> British politics needs comedic relief, and Change UK are delivering it in spades. From their foundation, CHUKa's short history has been a caper of unforced faults and unintentional laughs. We've had the racism. We've had the racism again. We've got transphobes and Tommy Robinson apologists among its European candidates. We saw the Electoral Commission reject their ballot box logo, which they then muddied by giving themselves two names, neither of which say anything. And more hilarity was served up over a "rebrand" of their Twitter account which saw their accidentally abandoned handle immediately annexed by Brexit Ultras. This wouldn't matter if it didn't have a blue tick and was at the top of Google rankings for 'The Independent Group'. And Thursday night, CHUKa blamed Labour for their failure to stand a unity remain candidate in conjunction with the Greens and LibDems in the upcoming Peterborough by-election. Who'd have Adam and Eve'd it, Farage's outfit looks slick at professional compared to these amateurs.
> 
> As Solomon Hughes notes, these missteps can be put down to CHUKa's status as a memberless party (ordinary punters still can't join, only supporter status is available). But I want to ask an entirely different question tangentially related to their incompetence. While the public are largely indifferent to the doings of Chuka, "Iron" Mike Gapes, and pals, why do an ungodly number of leftists find them fascinating? Is it because they're the butt of the best memes, or something else? I think we can put this down to three reasons.
> 
> ...


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2019)

The guy topping their Scotland list for the EP elections has quit to support the lib dems.


----------



## elbows (May 15, 2019)

killer b said:


> The guy topping their Scotland list for the EP elections has quit to support the lib dems.



Thats not the change they had in mind 

Change UK candidate quits to back Lib Dems


----------



## Argonia (May 15, 2019)

killer b said:


> The guy topping their Scotland list for the EP elections has quit to support the lib dems.



Love the way that Chuk claims that this bloke has 'let down his fellow candidates'. What the fuck does Chuk think he did when he created Change UK?


----------



## andysays (May 15, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Love the way that Chuk claims that this bloke has 'let down his fellow candidates'. What the fuck does Chuk think he did when he created Change UK?


Self awareness not his strong point, surprisingly enough...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 15, 2019)

> Because the deadline for registrations has passed he will still appear on the ballot paper for the party, but has written to MP Anna Soubry to announce his resignation and underline his backing for the Lib Dems.
> 
> Should Change UK win a seat in the Scotland constituency, it would now pass to the next candidate on the list, Peter Griffiths.



"hey, Peter, I wouldn't book your flight to Brussels just yet if I were you..."


----------



## teqniq (May 15, 2019)

Clown car stuff eh?


----------



## ska invita (May 15, 2019)

Poi E said:


>


Unbelievable...GQ used to be such a hotbed of radicalism



(sarcasm)


----------



## PR1Berske (May 15, 2019)




----------



## PR1Berske (May 15, 2019)




----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2019)




----------



## MickiQ (May 16, 2019)

They're just comedy gold now aren't they?


----------



## Sprocket. (May 16, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> They're just comedy gold now aren't they?



It does when the Monster Raving Loonies probably have more gravitas!


----------



## hot air baboon (May 16, 2019)




----------



## Sprocket. (May 16, 2019)

How long before Chukka is on the phone to David Miliband asking if there are any jobs going?


----------



## Whagwan (May 16, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


>




There is now video:


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2019)

Perfect.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 16, 2019)

Whagwan said:


> There is now video:



The amount of unexplained shivers Chris Morris must be getting these days though


----------



## Rob Ray (May 16, 2019)

I don't think I'll need to update this daily.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 16, 2019)

S☼I said:


> The amount of unexplained shivers Chris Morris must be getting these days though


I say we burn him as a witch.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2019)

I cant wait for their acrimonious disintegration after their trouncing in the Euro Elections. They are providing a fantastic case against the argument for a return to "sensible, centrist politics conducted by grown ups" - and we should salute them for that. But i worry that their will not be enough egg to be deposited on the faces of their cheerleaders in guardian towers.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> How long before Chukka is on the phone to David Miliband asking if there are any jobs going?


----------



## Fez909 (May 16, 2019)

killer b said:


> The guy topping their Scotland list for the EP elections has quit to support the lib dems.


----------



## Balbi (May 16, 2019)




----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2019)

Whagwan said:


> There is now video:



The paras about Ryan in Crace's Guardian piece are rather good tbh...



> No one can accuse Joan Ryan of indulging in personality politics. The former Labour MP is a charisma-free zone, a woman with the air of an over-anxious junior HR manager. The more she tries to encourage you, the worse you feel. She’d make a good living giving eulogies for people she’s never met at funeral services where no one has bothered to turn up. It was time someone stuck up for the EU, she said. She was right. Though I suspect everyone in Brussels rather wishes it wasn’t her.
> 
> “Look at your hands,” she concluded. Everyone briefly woke up, not quite sure they had heard her right. “Look at your hands,” she again demanded. Everyone rather awkwardly put their hands out in front of them and looked at them. Ryan was thrilled.
> 
> “There’s the answer,” she beamed. “The answer is in your hands.” Thank you and goodnight, grasshopper.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 16, 2019)

Balbi said:


>


For a second I thought that was -2%, and while polling at 2% below zero seemed inexplicable, it also seemed somehow plausible.


----------



## likesfish (May 16, 2019)

tbf cuk are at least not evil like brexit and ukip 
and have found a role at last


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 16, 2019)

I suppose "Not Hitler" is as good a place as any to start your policy platform.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2019)

I don't think credulously repeating lobby hacks' unsourced bollocks is ok just because we hate the people they're trashing tbh


----------



## brogdale (May 17, 2019)

Gapes gaps gape


----------



## brogdale (May 17, 2019)

ClUK 

Coming thick and fast, now.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 17, 2019)

killer b said:


> I don't think credulously repeating lobby hacks' unsourced bollocks is ok just because we hate the people they're trashing tbh



what you referring to? the tweet about "talks with labour ex-colleagues"?  i dont have problem with seeing what pots the lobby hacks are stirring - its all part of the mix and I can make my own judgement on its credibility. They are political actors as well.


----------



## Balbi (May 17, 2019)

Also it's not like they're ever gonna be allowed back into Labour


----------



## killer b (May 17, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> what you referring to? the tweet about "talks with labour ex-colleagues"?  i dont have problem with seeing what pots the lobby hacks are stirring - its all part of the mix and I can make my own judgement on its credibility. They are political actors as well.


certainly the seamless lobby pivot from 'Labour are in serious trouble with the arrival of this new centrist party!' to 'lol, look at these fucking clowns' is an instructive one.


----------



## brogdale (May 17, 2019)

killer b said:


> certainly the seamless lobby pivot from 'Labour are in serious trouble with the arrival of this new centrist party!' to 'lol, look at these fucking clowns' is an instructive one.


that happened from the minute tories defected


----------



## newbie (May 17, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Gapes gaps gape
> 
> View attachment 171244


They're on a roll.  3 on the platform and 10 audience. 2 days ago 9 addressed 5.  Gapesmania is just around the corner.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 17, 2019)

killer b said:


> certainly the seamless lobby pivot from 'Labour are in serious trouble with the arrival of this new centrist party!' to 'lol, look at these fucking clowns' is an instructive one.



hmmmm, could be instructive, could also be that the #LibDemFightBack means that the lobby don't need Ch UK any more and can get some mileage out of mocking them.


----------



## killer b (May 17, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> hmmmm, could be instructive, could also be that the #LibDemFightBack means that the lobby don't need Ch UK any more and can get some mileage out of mocking them.


that is one of the things it's instructive of, yeah.


----------



## agricola (May 17, 2019)

brogdale said:


> that happened from the minute tories defected



TBF they've been 4% of something since as far back as 2015.


----------



## co-op (May 17, 2019)

Mike Gapes is their only chance now. Scratch Umanna and Leslie, that whole smarmy, articulate good-in-a-suit thing is totally yesterday. The electorate are looking for left-field. Make Gapes leader. Build the party round him. Go batshit.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 17, 2019)

co-op said:


> Mike Gapes is their only chance now. Scratch Umanna and Leslie, that whole smarmy, articulate good-in-a-suit thing is totally yesterday. The electorate are looking for left-field. Make Gapes leader. Build the party round him. Go batshit.




If Mike Gapes launched a MILK Party I'd vote for it.


----------



## hot air baboon (May 17, 2019)

brogdale said:


> The paras about Ryan in Crace's Guardian piece are rather good tbh...



that's one of the most hilarious demolition jobs I've ever read - truly epic !


----------



## a_chap (May 19, 2019)




----------



## PR1Berske (May 20, 2019)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Change U.K. chief Heidi Allen calls time on Change U.K. She reveals the party will likely be part of a “brave new world” coalition by the time of the next Election. (So why vote for them Thursday?!)</p>&mdash; steve hawkes (@steve_hawkes) <a href="">May 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 20, 2019)

That's brilliant.  



> Change UK may not exist as a party in its current form by the time of the next general election, interim leader Heidi Allen has just admitted.
> 
> Quizzed on BBC Radio 4 Today’s programme after weekend rumours that she might defect to the Liberal Democrats, Allen revealed “the format might be slightly different. I see a modern world of coalition.”
> 
> ...



Change UK Party may not exist by next election reveals leader Heidi Allen


----------



## Poi E (May 20, 2019)

"the format might be slightly different". Political party just like a breakfast show.


----------



## andysays (May 20, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Change U.K. chief Heidi Allen calls time on Change U.K. She reveals the party will likely be part of a “brave new world” coalition by the time of the next Election. (So why vote for them Thursday?!)</p>&mdash; steve hawkes (@steve_hawkes) <a href="">May 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



Oh brave new world that has such people, innit...


----------



## brogdale (May 20, 2019)

andysays said:


> Oh brave new world that has such people, innit...





> I see a modern world of coalition



Alighting on the notion of Parliamentary _*coalition*_ as the defining tenet of their project would suggest that they haven't quite got their finger on the political pulse of the nation.


----------



## Ted Striker (May 20, 2019)

"Look at your hands in front of you. Watch your once promising political career slip through the fingers..."


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 20, 2019)

a brave new world of pulling the plug on your joke party and joining the lib dems.


----------



## killer b (May 20, 2019)

What would the lib dems gain from letting them join?


----------



## kebabking (May 20, 2019)

killer b said:


> What would the lib dems gain from letting them join?



Isn't there some form of party slush money dished out, with the LD's a bit close to the mark of not getting any because of their small numbers?

I'd certainly say there are negatives in allowing her (or any of the Chuckies) in, but the chance to kill off the Chuckies in one fell swoop is a big positive.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 20, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Isn't there some form of party slush money dished out, with the LD's a bit close to the mark of not getting any because of their small numbers?
> 
> I'd certainly say there are negatives in allowing her (or any of the Chuckies) in, but the chance to kill off the Chuckies in one fell swoop is a big positive.



They should let them all in except Chuka Umunna.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They should let them all in except Chuka Umunna.


tell him to sling his hook


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2019)

kebabking said:


> the chance to kill off the Chuckies in one fell swoop is a big positive.


----------



## killer b (May 20, 2019)

You'd only need a small minubus tbf


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2019)

killer b said:


> You'd only need a small minubus tbf


give it a month or three and a tandem should suffice.


----------



## brogdale (May 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> give it a month or three and a tandem should suffice.


Pictured earlier ordering that tandem for one.


----------



## Wilf (May 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's brilliant.
> 
> 
> 
> Change UK Party may not exist by next election reveals leader Heidi Allen


When even the Liberals tell you to fuck off, the Universe is trying to say something.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 20, 2019)

'Politics isn't going to wait for you': has Change UK missed its moment?

Everywhere he goes people come up to him and tell how brave he is, apparently.*

Modest too, I expect.





*Jimmy Hill


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 'Politics isn't going to wait for you': has Change UK missed its moment?
> 
> Everywhere he goes people come up to him and tell how brave he is, apparently.*
> 
> ...


By brave they mean stupid


----------



## Wilf (May 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 'Politics isn't going to wait for you': has Change UK missed its moment?
> 
> Everywhere he goes people come up to him and tell how brave he is, apparently.*
> 
> ...


They probably should have made their move at the height of the vonc(s) against Corbyn and/or when Owen Smith challenged him. At one level they would have been accused of departing just at the point when Corbyn was weakest, but they might well have taken a few more MPs with them. As soon as he won again and particularly after the 2017 Gen Election, their moment had gone.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 'Politics isn't going to wait for you': has Change UK missed its moment?
> 
> Everywhere he goes people come up to him and tell how brave he is, apparently.*
> 
> ...



I took one look at their bus, and thought, fuck me, that's shit...

 

And, right underneath that picture, is this quote - “I didn’t know you could print a Word document straight on to a bus”.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I took one look at their bus, and thought, fuck me, that's shit...
> 
> View attachment 171606
> 
> And, right underneath that picture, is this quote - “I didn’t know you could print a Word document straight on to a bus”.


They'd do better if they rhymed change uk or chuk or cuk with something


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> They'd do better if they rhymed change uk or chuk or cuk with something


----------



## Wilf (May 20, 2019)

To be fair to them, they've been working closely with the Mayor of London, to get a 2nd referendum. They do struggle with names, but for the moment they are provisionally calling this exciting cross party initiative...  _Chaka Khan_.

Coat.


----------



## agricola (May 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> They probably should have made their move at the height of the vonc(s) against Corbyn and/or when Owen Smith challenged him. At one level they would have been accused of departing just at the point when Corbyn was weakest, but they might well have taken a few more MPs with them. As soon as he won again and particularly after the 2017 Gen Election, their moment had gone.



There never was a moment for them to do what they've done - they know what the appetite is for a centrist party comprised of (and run for) a professional political class, what the history is for new parties outside the established ones is in this country and what the support for them was in Labour actually was.  They flounced off because they thought they'd be able to easily absorb the (to them, leaderless) Lib Dems and then coin it in as the party of Remain, but as with everything else that they've done since the summer of 2015 the plan did not survive contact with reality.


----------



## Wilf (May 20, 2019)

agricola said:


> There never was a moment for them to do what they've done - they know what the appetite is for a centrist party comprised of (and run for) a professional political class, what the history is for new parties outside the established ones is in this country and what the support for them was in Labour actually was.  They flounced off because they thought they'd be able to easily absorb the (to them, leaderless) Lib Dems and then coin it in as the party of Remain, but as with everything else that they've done since the summer of 2015 the plan did not survive contact with reality.


Oh, I agree, they've no working class roots and it's been largely a guardianista thing. But they've somehow managed to minimise the number of MPs who they've dragged into oblivion.


----------



## belboid (May 20, 2019)

Wilf said:


> They probably should have made their move at the height of the vonc(s) against Corbyn and/or when Owen Smith challenged him. At one level they would have been accused of departing just at the point when Corbyn was weakest, but they might well have taken a few more MPs with them. As soon as he won again and particularly after the 2017 Gen Election, their moment had gone.


That would have been the worst possible time for them to do it. They genuinely thought they would win second time around, completely miscalculating everything. To leave then would just have looked like them being sulky children taking their ball home.  They had to find some kind of point of principle to do it over, and something EU based would always be necessary to pull over the wet tories, if that was always their bag. Their just isn't really much of a market for that kind of Blairite managerialist politics any more.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 'Politics isn't going to wait for you': has Change UK missed its moment?
> 
> Everywhere he goes people come up to him and tell how brave he is, apparently.*
> 
> ...



seems they still have mates at the gaurdian willing to churn out desperate, turd polishing, puff pieces. "we didn't expect to be fighting an election so soon" really? Its been a very real possibility that the euro elections would happen since well before they left their parties


----------



## kenny g (May 20, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They should let them all in except Chuka Umunna.



Let them in and then start reselection.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 20, 2019)

If ChUK4Now win any MEPs I'll bare my arse in this thread.


----------



## elbows (May 20, 2019)

agricola said:


> There never was a moment for them to do what they've done - they know what the appetite is for a centrist party comprised of (and run for) a professional political class, what the history is for new parties outside the established ones is in this country and what the support for them was in Labour actually was.  They flounced off because they thought they'd be able to easily absorb the (to them, leaderless) Lib Dems and then coin it in as the party of Remain, but as with everything else that they've done since the summer of 2015 the plan did not survive contact with reality.



Mange UKs centre ground reminds me very much of the hole in a polo mint. 

In fact I believe one of their rejected logo designs was very much like a mashup between goatse and a polo mint. They had an elaborate brand launch party lined up until the Mighty Boosh refused permission to use their eels song.

Can you just look at your ring, please. Thats it, the answers there, its in your brass eye. So take your sphincter and get out there.


----------



## kabbes (May 20, 2019)

kabbes said:


> They’re so near the truth with that memo but they’ve just missed it.  The truth, that is, that they are the Lib Dems with less money, less support, no boots on the ground and no clear way of getting any of this.  With the consequence that they aren’t going to swallow the Lib Dems, it’s going to be the other way round.


I didn’t expect to be right quite THIS quickly


----------



## Doctor Carrot (May 21, 2019)

I just found out the lead singer of the longpigs is standing for them in my constituency.


----------



## Ground Elder (May 22, 2019)

Change UK spent more than £1,300 on ads saying they wanted to ‘remain in the UK’
It's a very confusing time for them


----------



## elbows (May 22, 2019)

Well I guess I'm in the West Midlands so the tinger candidate I believe will be on the ballot here is Stephen Dorrell, like a ghastly echo from Tory regimes past.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 22, 2019)

Ground Elder said:


> Change UK spent more than £1,300 on ads saying they wanted to ‘remain in the UK’
> It's a very confusing time time for them





They are the Lapland New Forest of politics.


----------



## brogdale (May 23, 2019)

They really are this shite...



Vote for:
1. "the future"
2. "opportunity"
3. "tollorance"(sic)
4. "our milieu"....

Jesus.


----------



## kabbes (May 23, 2019)

Vote for Pedro and all your dreams will come true.


----------



## Dom Traynor (May 23, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> They are the Lapland New Forest of politics.


Perfect disappointing thick middle class people instead of thick working class people


----------



## Badgers (May 23, 2019)




----------



## Badgers (May 23, 2019)

More than any other party?


----------



## Badgers (May 23, 2019)

See the Telegraph are calling for her resignation. Wonder why...


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 23, 2019)

Badgers said:


> More than any other party?



I can well believe they've spent the most on Facebook ads specifically. Combine their self-conscious 'modern' nature with their lack of understanding of how anything actually works, and the result is chucking a load of money at Facebook.


----------



## Badgers (May 25, 2019)

Change UK could form pro-remain pact with Liberal Democrats | Change UK – The Independent Group | The Guardian

A Liberal alliance


----------



## redsquirrel (May 25, 2019)

Why would the LDs want these pricks?


----------



## mx wcfc (May 25, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> Why would the LDs want these pricks?



They've just gone into coalition with the tories and UKIP to get into power in one council.  I can't imagine a deal with CHuK would be problematic for them.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 25, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


> They've just gone into coalition with the tories and UKIP to get into power in one council.  I can't imagine a deal with CHuK would be problematic for them.


Oh no disagreement there, but why would the LDs bother with these pricks?

Prior to the LEs when they were both polling around the same level of support I could imagine the two striking a deal, now the LDs hold all the cards and the ChUKs will be soundly embarrassed when the results are announced. The LDs will drop any principles at the merest hint of power but what do ChUK bring to the party but a load of baggage in the form of mockery, contempt and dislike. ChUK don't have any activists, they don't have any councillors, they have 11 MPs most of which are fucking pathetic specimens even by the standards of the LDs. There's not enough space for two centrist parties and the LDs have all the cards, if they want they can simply swallow ChUK up, if they don't they can blow them away.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 25, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> The LDs will drop any principles at the merest hint of power



they had any in the first place?


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 25, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Change UK could form pro-remain pact with Liberal Democrats | Change UK – The Independent Group | The Guardian
> 
> A Liberal alliance



Why would the LibDems want a 'pact' with such hopeless misfits?

The LibDems should tell them they can join them & wind-up Chuckle UK, or fuck off.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 25, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Why would the LibDems want a 'pact' with such hopeless misfits?
> 
> The LibDems should tell them they can join them & wind-up Chuckle UK, or fuck off.


Yeh, they're hopeless misfits themselves, they don't need any more oddballs


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 26, 2019)

well I certainly didnt see this coming 

Change UK leader Heidi Allen hints at death of troubled party with call for merger with Liberal Democrats


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 26, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> well I certainly didnt see this coming
> 
> Change UK leader Heidi Allen hints at death of troubled party with call for merger with Liberal Democrats



You didn't? 

It was posted on this thread last Monday - Change UK: Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 26, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> You didn't?
> 
> It was posted on this thread last Monday - Change UK: Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group


I was being sarcastic, I did wonder whether to add a not at the end but thought it may be obvs


----------



## Rob Ray (May 26, 2019)

The LDs are weak in parliamentary terms atm so might entertain the idea of grabbing a dozen refugees from other parties to get their profile back up, but only carrying the water.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 26, 2019)

LDs are electing a new leader (which you might have missed while another party does the same). What’s betting the chuks use that as some justification for merging, something like ‘this is a new modern leader and someone we felt we could work with... shared ideas and values...’ etc.  Would appear less like a defeat that way.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 26, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> LDs are electing a new leader (which you might have missed while another party does the same). What’s betting the chuks use that as some justification for merging, something like ‘this is a new modern leader and someone we felt we could work with... shared ideas and values...’ etc.  Would appear less like a defeat that way.



True, and it produces the possibly that if failing Grayling stands in the Tory leadership contest, he could end-up as LibDem leader by accident.


----------



## billy_bob (May 26, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Change UK could form pro-remain pact with Liberal Democrats | Change UK – The Independent Group | The Guardian
> 
> A Liberal alliance



Breaking news: Zen Buddhists to replace 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?' with 'What is the point of Change UK?' as best way to clear the mind of all conscious thought.


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2019)




----------



## Celyn (May 27, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> The LDs are weak in parliamentary terms atm so might entertain the idea of grabbing a dozen refugees from other parties to get their profile back up, but only carrying the water.


At present, the LibDems are in 4th place in the House of Commons, so they might quite like to make the numbers look better.


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2019)




----------



## brogdale (May 27, 2019)

elbows said:


> View attachment 172384


Soubry should leave to form a new....zzzzz


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 27, 2019)

I think the chuks have definitely overperformed. At their inception i didn't think they would last long as a viable party and  their lack of any political ideas other then rehashed centrist beige and rank opportunism would find them out. 

however - i would never have predicted that they would go from  - "brave new dawn of politics" and "could this produce - whisper it -  the british Macron?" -  to a never ending stream of farcical pratfalls, a sub 5% vote share and collapsing  into acrimonious backbiting in just over 3 months. Take a bow guys.


----------



## kebabking (May 27, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> I think the chuks have definitely overperformed. At their inception i didn't think they would last long as a viable party and  their lack of any political ideas other then rehashed centrist beige and rank opportunism would find them out.
> 
> however - i would never have predicted that they would go from  - "brave new dawn of politics" and "could this produce - whisper it -  the british Macron?" -  to a never ending stream of farcical pratfalls, a sub 5% vote share and collapsing  into acrimonious backbiting in just over 3 months. Take a bow guys.



I, for one, salute their plaudit-winning entry into this year's Edinburgh Festival Fringe...


----------



## likesfish (May 27, 2019)

Well we needed a comedy option. 

The self styled Obama of UK politics has managed to shoot himself in the foot and kneecap himself all at once .

Impressive


----------



## a_chap (May 27, 2019)

kebabking said:


> I, for one, salute their plaudit-winning entry into this year's Edinburgh Festival Fringe...



No, not quite.

I hear they have instead volunteered to perform the UK entry at next year's Eurovision.


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2019)

a_chap said:


> No, not quite.
> 
> I hear they have instead volunteered to perform the UK entry at next year's Eurovision.



I'm sure they will find a way to mess that up too, and enter the Eurovision wrong contest.

They couldnt even agree on whether their entry should be the original ditty 'we must change.... our logo', or a reworked version of 'if I could turn back time (I wouldnt break away)'. They did manage to agree that covering 'a whiter shade of pale' was unwise considering their early tinger stumblings.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 27, 2019)

Well I hope they do merge with the LibDems. Is the only way Labour will get back to power is with a coalition with the LibDems? Ony the LibDems can pinch seats in many Tory areas.


----------



## likesfish (May 27, 2019)

elbows said:


> I'm sure they will find a way to mess that up too, and enter the Eurovision wrong contest.
> 
> They couldnt even agree on whether their entry should be the original ditty 'we must change.... our logo', or a reworked version of 'if I could turn back time (I wouldnt break away)'. They did manage to agree that covering 'a whiter shade of pale' was unwise considering their early tinger stumblings.




I'm pretty sure in cuk UK can't do any worse than the normal UK Eurovision


----------



## kebabking (May 27, 2019)

likesfish said:


> I'm pretty sure in cuk UK can't do any worse than the normal UK Eurovision



Oh ye of little faith.

No ambition likesfish - that's your problem...


----------



## billy_bob (May 27, 2019)

They'd only try to merge their song with Malta's or something.


----------



## kebabking (May 27, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> They'd only try to merge their song with Malta's or something.



I was going to suggest setting _Mein Kampf _to music...


----------



## Funky_monks (May 28, 2019)

Are they dead yet?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 28, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> Are they dead yet?



no, they are resting...


----------



## Dom Traynor (May 28, 2019)

elbows said:


> View attachment 172384



If Jo Swinson becomes Libdem leader then that will give the CHUKAs a great excuse to seek a proper relationship that will lead to merger. 

From the article above maybe Soubry will pull a David Owen and lead a CHUK rump into the next election while Heidi becomes deputy leader of the Libdems. Assuming the Libs will have them of course.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 4, 2019)

Change UK to hold make-or-break meeting over party's future as splits erupt


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 4, 2019)

I imagine the mundaneness of being subsumed into the Lib Dems might be a bit much for the egos of some of these bold counter-revolutionaries. Subordinate to Ed Davey, what a world.


----------



## andysays (Jun 4, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> Change UK to hold make-or-break meeting over party's future as splits erupt


Splitters gonna split...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2019)

continuity chuckles


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> Change UK to hold make-or-break meeting over party's future as splits erupt





> Some are said to be keen on joining the Lib Dems, but *others insist there is still a future for Change UK as an independent political force*



Deluded twats.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 4, 2019)

Bunch of muppets


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 4, 2019)

This whole malarkey cheers me up. Their politics is rotting and in their consternation is a lot of raw humour. More please


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

Mirror reporting that they've officially split... Six going as independent and five staying as Change UK. Lol


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

Change UK split - six return to being Independents but five stick with new party

Change UK split - six return to being Independents but five stick with new party


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 4, 2019)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 4, 2019)

Permanent Change UK. 

What a bunch of absolute fucking twats


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 4, 2019)

Triggers


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

Which ones jumped?


----------



## Badgers (Jun 4, 2019)

> £87,880 on Facebook advertising


----------



## andysays (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Which ones jumped?


Mirror story doesn't have that detail. Has the story appeared anywhere else?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2019)

started as the magnificent seven, reached a dirty dozen and now down to the famous five


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> started as the magnificent seven, reached a dirty dozen and now down to the famous five



Famous?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Which ones jumped?


Guardian has this roll call:


> Change UK’s interim leader, Heidi Allen, and the former Labour MP Chuka Umunna, who is the group’s spokesman, have been advocating closer cooperation with the Liberal Democrats, and are among those thought to be considering defecting to the party.
> 
> Other MPs may also leave the party, potentially including the former Labour MP Luciana Berger, who was the face of Change UK’s launch event. The MPs are holding a meeting on Tuesday lunchtime and an announcement is expected later in the day.
> 
> ...


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

What's the betting the six potential independents will merge with/join the libdems? I reckon pretty likely


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

The Soubreyites, amazing stuff


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Famous?


fatuous five then


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Guardian has this roll call:





> former Labour MPs Joan Ryan, Chris Leslie, Mike Gapes and Ann Coffey, and the former Conservative MP Anna Soubry, are determined to continue as a separate party.



Fucking hell, four eejits want to stay with Soubry.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

Aren't the non-chuk independents mainly sex pests and gropers?


----------



## strung out (Jun 4, 2019)

Presumably the ones leaving are going to be called The Independent Independent Group, or perhaps The Real Independent Group.


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2019)

Worra clusterfuck



> Up to half of Change UK’s MPs are poised to leave the fledgling political party after its dismal performance in the European elections.
> 
> Change UK’s interim leader, Heidi Allen, and the former Labour MP Chuka Umunna, who is the group’s spokesman, have been advocating closer cooperation with the Liberal Democrats, and are among those thought to be considering defecting to the party.
> 
> ...



Change UK set to lose up to half its MPs


----------



## kabbes (Jun 4, 2019)

editor said:


> Worra clusterfuck
> 
> 
> 
> Change UK set to lose up to half its MPs


Look seven posts up...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

strung out said:


> Presumably the ones leaving are going to be called The Independent Independent Group, or perhaps The Real Independent Group.



Provisional Independent Group, until they split and 3 or 4 join the LibDems, and the 2 or 3 left declare themselves as the Continuity Independent Group, until they split.


----------



## andysays (Jun 4, 2019)

editor said:


> Worra clusterfuck
> 
> 
> Change UK set to lose up to half its MPs


Come the next election they'll be losing the rest of them.

Joking aside, I suggest this repositioning is primarily based on a personal calculation of how best to ensure their re-election, they reckon they have more chance standing as LibDems than as ChangeUK or whatever name they're going by now. Whether they're correct remains to be seen...


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 4, 2019)

Which ones will jump back into Labour when it pivots towards People’s Vote? Got to be a few that are worried about not having someone else pay the mortgage after the next election.


----------



## JimW (Jun 4, 2019)

Loose Change


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 4, 2019)

andysays said:


> Come the next election they'll be losing the rest of them.
> 
> Joking aside, I suggest this repositioning is primarily based on a personal calculation of how best to ensure their re-election, they reckon they have more chance standing as LibDems than as ChangeUK or whatever name they're going by now. Whether they're correct remains to be seen...



Whether existing lib dem candidates in their seats would be happy to stand aside for such a shower of twats would be another question. Where will they parachute Mike Gapes for example?*


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Which ones will jump back into Labour when it pivots towards People’s Vote? Got to be a few that are worried about not having someone else pay the mortgage after the next election.



It would make my day if the 4 former Labour MPs staying with Soubry, all jumped back into Labour, leaving Soubry on her own. 



JimW said:


> Loose Change


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 4, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Whether existing lib dem candidates in their seats would be happy to stand aside for such a shower of twats would be another question. Where will they parachute Mike Gapes for example?*



You'd think that treacherous scumbags that have split from two parties in under 6 months wouldn't be welcome anywhere. But, Lib Dems...


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2019)

Chuka wants to keep his seat, and sees a LibDem ticket as the way to do it. Right?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 4, 2019)

Hahahaha


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You'd think that treacherous scumbags that have split from two parties in under 6 months wouldn't be welcome anywhere. But, Lib Dems...


'Bring me your tired and puddled arseholes'.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

Jesus H Christ on a Fucking Bike, Soubry is the new leader of Chuckle UK.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2019)

lol


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

> Ms Soubry said she was "deeply disappointed" at the split.
> 
> "Now is not the time to walk away, but instead to roll up our sleeves and stand up for the sensible mainstream centre ground which is unrepresented in British politics today," she added in a statement.
> 
> Six Change UK MPs quit party months after its creation



Fucking hell, how deluded is she? 



> Despite a slick launch in Westminster, the group was plagued by problems.



There was a 'slick launch'? I missed that completely.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2019)

nicked off twitter:


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Whether existing lib dem candidates in their seats would be happy to stand aside for such a shower of twats would be another question. Where will they parachute Mike Gapes for example?*


Drop him in the South Atlantic


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

chilango said:


> Chuka wants to keep his seat, and sees a LibDem ticket as the way to do it. Right?


This.


----------



## tim (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Drop him in the South Atlantic


Stealing the Malvinas is bad enough, dumping Gapes on them is adding insult to injury.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 4, 2019)

brogdale said:


> lol
> 
> View attachment 173271


"our priority right now must be to provide collegiate leadership" - "collegiate" as in abandoning the party you helped start and returning to independent isolation, "leadership" as in... christ, I don't fucking even know what


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> "our priority right now must be to provide collegiate leadership" - "collegiate" as in abandoning the party you helped start and returning to independent isolation, "leadership" as in... christ, I don't fucking even know what


Waiting for the nod from Swinson.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> "our priority right now must be to provide collegiate leadership" - "collegiate" as in abandoning the party you helped start and returning to independent isolation, "leadership" as in... christ, I don't fucking even know what


All there is is ego.


----------



## Beermoth (Jun 4, 2019)

brogdale said:


> lol
> 
> View attachment 173271



'Sorry - we started a centrist party by mistake.'


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

It's in your hands.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2019)

Apols for source, but the graphic is useful for those who've forgotten exactly who these former people are.....


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 4, 2019)

“Roll up our sleeves”
“In the National interest”

Soundbites lifted straight off the tories. No illusion of progressiveness here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

JimW said:


> Loose Change


spare change


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

You knew chucks would want to ditch Ryan and Gapes.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> spare change


Changelings


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

Vince Cable being interviewed on BBC News, he would be happy to talk to anyone wanting to join the LibDems, in particular the 'independent group', and went on to say...

'I don't want to gloat over their failure, it was a failure [big grin on his face], but we have got to move on'. - fucking LOL.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> You knew chucks would want to ditch Ryan and Gapes.


auld sour gapes never made many friends


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

It's hugely enjoyable hearing this news. I think it makes the country less polarised laughing together at them.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> You knew chucks would want to ditch Ryan and Gapes.



They've still got Leslie though, the poor swines.


----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

chilango said:


> Chuka wants to keep his seat, and sees a LibDem ticket as the way to do it. Right?



Chuka is probably hoping he can join the yellow tories in time to run for their leadership


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Chuka is probably hoping he can join the yellow tories in time to run for their leadership


This


----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Which ones will jump back into Labour when it pivots towards People’s Vote? Got to be a few that are worried about not having someone else pay the mortgage after the next election.



Would labour have them back?


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

He would lead them up the garden path


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Would labour have them back?


No.


----------



## JimW (Jun 4, 2019)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 173278


Turn and face the strange


----------



## mauvais (Jun 4, 2019)

This is pretty devastating IMO, like the time that the one who isn't Geri left the one that isn't The Spice Girls.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 4, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Apols for source, but the graphic is useful for those who've forgotten exactly who these former people are.....
> 
> View attachment 173275


Yoink!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

No one will ever do what tig have done again, leaving to form an independent group, because they will recall the tinge of shame


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

The Alternative to Change.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 4, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


>


Damn you, got there before me


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

Ah the comedy never stops.



> "to provide collegiate leadership to bring people together in the national interest"



To speak now of bringing people together, when they cant even keep 12 of their own people together. Brilliant.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> The Alternative to Change.


The status quo party only without the hits


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


>



Well, it's hard not to be inspired by something like _that_.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

Alan Partridge doesn't do political parties, but if he did...


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

This is the political equivalent of a dozen people shitting in a hat and taking turns to wear it.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

elbows said:


> View attachment 173283


Oh dear what can the matter be


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

This has sent demand for my tiny violins to previously unknown heights


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> This has sent demand for my tiny violins to previously unknown heights



... and this is before the debate within the Lib Dems as to whether to let the ex-ChUK people in, as if they are Genoese galleys stuck outside Sicily in 1346.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> This has sent demand for my tiny violins to previously unknown heights



Presumably a special edition model with just a single string, since the other strings split.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

If Change UK are still Change UK: The Independent Group then wtf do the new independents call themselves


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

elbows said:


> Presumably a special edition model with just a single string, since the other strings split.


You can now order special editions through the website


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> If Change UK are still Change UK: The Independent Group then wtf do the new independents call themselves



Soon to be signing on group?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

Continuity Change


----------



## Riklet (Jun 4, 2019)

Splitters!!


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 4, 2019)

Can’t sign on if they voluntarily made themselves redundant by setting up a hopelessly doomed political movement. Food banks for them.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> If Change UK are still Change UK: The Independent Group then wtf do the new independents call themselves



At this rate, atoms for peace.

Its not the worst strategy, if they break themselves down to the molecular level then their numbers will be huge!


----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2019)

Fair play to Soubs, not many MPs from a party that had lost half its members could have had the cheek to go on national news and claim the two main parties are in meltdown.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 4, 2019)

Chuka has, since January 2019, been a member of

Labour
The Independent Group
Change UK - The Independent Group
Remain Alliance
For Change Now
Independent
The Alternative


It's currently June.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Libdem ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Corbyn-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like turds in rain. Time to die.


----------



## LDC (Jun 4, 2019)

Just had a quick look at Umunna's Twitter, he's getting some right hilarious comments on his statement.


----------



## vanya (Jun 4, 2019)

Lets hope all these tossers lose their seats at the next election. That will be one of my all time Golden Moments.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 4, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> Chuka has, since January 2019, been a member of
> 
> Labour
> The Independent Group
> ...



You mock, but it's dynamism that changes the world....


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> Chuka has, since January 2019, been a member of
> 
> Labour
> The Independent Group
> ...


Still hasn't found what he's looking for.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Still hasn't found what he's looking for.


Well, they've collapsed like the Joshua Tree.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Still hasn't found what he's looking for.


No contract, no roving charges.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2019)

Forms a new party named after himself then flounces off when it won't do what he says. Malignant narcissism hardly covers this.


----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Still hasn't found what he's looking for.



The Tories.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

Wonder how those strange people who donated to one of the many Chunk incarnations are feeling today?


----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

I hope he joins the lib dems. Tries to run for leader. loses. Quits them in a huff.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

agricola said:


> Fair play to Soubs, not many MPs from a party that had lost half its members could have had the cheek to go on national news and claim the two main parties are in *meltdown*.



Carefully constructed language to remind people of what can happen when you split the atom.

Rumours that the splitters new partys registered office is Fukushima spent fuel pool number 3 have yet to be substantiated.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Wonder how those strange people who donated to one of the many Chunk incarnations are feeling today?


Anyone got a figure?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Wonder how those strange people who donated to one of the many Chunk incarnations are feeling today?


Sick as a parrot


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

Ack I cant keep up, its now being suggested that the very elusive tinged quarks have been spotted lurking round the back of the large hadron collider.

Dont mention the god particle, or some of them may stumble and accidentally merge with Farrons evangeliberal dems instead of the real deal.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

We must be able to get at least a top 5 chuk fuck ups:

'people with a tinge'
Euro candidate abandoning them for the libs mid-election (my personal fave)
'It's in your hands... lift your hands up... look it's in your hands'
Some monumental fuck up with Euro leaflets?
A new name every fortnight
All the rats in a sack deciding to get into different sacks today


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> We must be able to get at least a top 5 chuk fuck ups:
> 
> 'people with a tinge'
> Euro candidate abandoning them for the libs mid-election (my personal fave)
> ...


A succinct summary .


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> We must be able to get at least a top 5 chuk fuck ups:
> 
> 'people with a tinge'
> Euro candidate abandoning them for the libs mid-election (my personal fave)
> ...


Could someone please do a video montage of the above events to help us choose the top fuckup!?


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> We must be able to get at least a top 5 chuk fuck ups:
> 
> 'people with a tinge'
> Euro candidate abandoning them for the libs mid-election (my personal fave)
> ...



The fuckup with the Change name, the petition site getting in a strop and then one of the tingers instantly getting the party name wrong when speaking publicly.

The microsoft word-tastic quality of the message on the side of their bus.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

Oh, aye and the great centrist realignment, with an absolute focus on getting a second referendum... followed by refusing to work with the Libs in the Euros. Then getting a vote so small it can only be detected by an entirely new branch of mathematics.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

One of Soubrys toenail clippings just gave an exclusive interview with channel 5. Its gone rogue.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

We need FEB analysis.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Could someone please do a video montage of the above events to help us choose the top fuckup!?


... with public votes and eliminations - _Britain's Without Talent_.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> ... with public votes and eliminations - _Britain's Without Talent_.


Britain's Got Twats


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Britain's Got Twats


Ant and Dec: Judges, you can save one act, who is it to be?
Judges: none, they're all cunts.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> We must be able to get at least a top 5 chuk fuck ups:
> 
> 'people with a tinge'
> Euro candidate abandoning them for the libs mid-election (my personal fave)
> ...


Don't forget the innovative "barcode" and the shit barcode battle bus.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Ant and Dec: Judges, you can save one act, who is it to be?
> Judges: none, they're all cunts.


They'll be grunged in grytviken


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 4, 2019)

elbows said:


> The fuckup with the Change name, the petition site getting in a strop and then one of the tingers instantly getting the party name wrong when speaking publicly.
> 
> The microsoft word-tastic quality of the message on the side of their bus.



That & the fact that the Electoral Commission banned their original logo from appearing on the ballot papers, so a blank space was shown next to the candidate and party names...

 

Priceless!


----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

That leaked memo could be a bit awkward when they apply to join the lib dems


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

"can you just look at your hands please" [lines of shit squeezed between fingers fall out]


----------



## Argonia (Jun 4, 2019)

So is Chuk calling his shitshow the Alternative now?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 4, 2019)

"Alternative" like Stereophonics.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

Argonia said:


> So is Chuk calling his shitshow the Alternative now?



I've advised him to call it Center Quarks instead but he aint listening, think his ear might have split off.


----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2019)

elbows said:


> I've advised him to call it Center Quarks instead but he aint listening, think his ear might have split off.



that will probably be taken up by them - DS9 is their favourite Star Trek, and they already saw themselves as the Maquis.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

Come to Center Quarks this weekend, for a festival of Progressive Cock groups.

Meanwhile Star Trek references to things that came after Picard and Data are lost on me.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

agricola said:


> that will probably be taken up by them - DS9 is their favourite Star Trek, and they already saw themselves as the Maquis.


'A completely new species has been discovered. They communicate entirely through the medium of failure'.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2019)

The smallternative. With their inspiring campaign slogan 'lend us a pound so we can gather round the previously unfound center ground'. Backed by the award winning campaign anthem 'together we are stronger apart'.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 4, 2019)

Fuckem uk.
They so had their fingers on the political pulse of the nation.
I wouldn’t trust one of them to be left unsupervised with an elastic band.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

Will the lib dems welcome this bunch? Their existence is an implicit criticism to the wishy washy Cyril Smith apologists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

elbows said:


> The smallternative. With their inspiring campaign slogan 'lend us a pound so we can gather round the previously unfound center ground'. Backed by the award winning campaign anthem 'together we are stronger apart'.


They'll be the alt as their numbers will decline rapidly


----------



## belboid (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Will the lib dems welcome this bunch? Their existence is an implicit criticism to the wishy washy Cyril Smith apologists.


I really  do think the local libscum may tell Smith the Tinge to eff off.   

Centre will probably make them do it though.


----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Will the lib dems welcome this bunch? Their existence is an implicit criticism to the wishy washy Cyril Smith apologists.



Their money and voters yes, but the MPs (or at least the ones everyone noticed, so not Wollaston) would be more trouble than they are worth.


----------



## belboid (Jun 4, 2019)

agricola said:


> Their money and voter yes,


cfy


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 4, 2019)

Many would quit politics with that level of disillusionment- these boys and girls are tenacious. Like a sweet corn peppered post Guinness shit clinging to the bowl.


----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2019)

I wonder what happens to the company that Shuker used to start TIG off now that he has left ChUK?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Will the lib dems welcome this bunch? Their existence is an implicit criticism to the wishy washy Cyril Smith apologists.


"Go back to your constituencies, and prepare to keep these cunts out!"


----------



## belboid (Jun 4, 2019)

agricola said:


> I wonder what happens to the company that Shuker used to start TIG off now that he has left ChUK?


he resigned on May 21, apparently. Now owned by Nicola Murphy and Neil Davison, whoever they are.

THE INDEPENDENT GROUP (TIG) LTD - Officers (free information from Companies House)

ohh, they're a private healthcare lobbyist and Mr Anna Soubry, it seems


----------



## cantsin (Jun 4, 2019)

Ah Jonny Freedland, you ledge


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

cantsin said:


> Ah Jonny Freedland, you ledge
> 
> View attachment 173309


Staple this to his head.


----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2019)

belboid said:


> he resigned on May 21, apparently. Now owned by Nicola Murphy and Neil Davison, whoever they are.
> 
> THE INDEPENDENT GROUP (TIG) LTD - Officers (free information from Companies House)
> 
> ohh, they're a private healthcare lobbyist and Mr Anna Soubry, it seems



Shuker is still shown as owning more than 75% of the shares though.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

Three quarters of a turd.


----------



## belboid (Jun 4, 2019)

Probably the whole turd.  He's just given it to someone else to polish.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 4, 2019)

I fear that Tingers looking to become LD's are going to be in for a struggle: the LD's are a pretty 'local' bunch, the constituancy parties have a lot of clout over selection of candidates - which is why they have so many oddballs.

Joining now isn't a problem, but being selected as the LD candidate for X constituency in 2022 or whenever is by no means guaranteed - the local party may not like the sitting ex-Labour/Tory MP, and may have their own candidate. 

Woollaston for example started the referendum campaign as a brexiteer, she fell out with Gove/Johnson when they wouldn't allocate her GP surgery a slice of the £350m (which shows how bright she is) and suddenly become a fervent remainer. 

I've no idea if she'd want to stay with Totnes, but in 2017 - as a Tory - she had a 10,000 majority over the Labour candidate, and twenty thousand more than the then LD candidate... Its also a leave voting constituency.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

Would be beautiful if eg Umunna gets deselected by his constituency libdem party


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Would be beautiful if eg Umunna gets deselected by his constituency libdem party


Easy for that to happen given the trio's disdain for the man


----------



## Badgers (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## MickiQ (Jun 4, 2019)

There's very little in it for the LibDems except half a dozen deadbeats in seats they're unlikely to keep past the next GE, they've nothing else to offer, no activists or party membership or even money. Why would the LibDems who are currently clearly on a roll want to be associated with these losers?


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 4, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> There's very little in it for the LibDems except half a dozen deadbeats in seats they're unlikely to keep past the next GE, they've nothing else to offer, no activists or party membership or even money. Why would the LibDems who are currently clearly on a roll want to be associated with these losers?



Exactly, especially when the activist base (which in the Lib Dems has way more official power than in most other parties) was so against the coalition in 2010 but got told to STFU, but was then proven entirely correct. I can’t see them now allowing another opportunity for ‘you’re in bed with the tories / labour’ accusations by taking these defectors on.


----------



## strung out (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> We must be able to get at least a top 5 chuk fuck ups:
> 
> 'people with a tinge'
> Euro candidate abandoning them for the libs mid-election (my personal fave)
> ...


When they changed their Twitter handle and their old one got taken by Brexiters


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 4, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Some monumental fuck up with Euro leaflets?



do you mean


> Change UK spent more than £1,300 on ads saying they wanted to ‘remain in the UK’


(story here)

or was there another monumental fuck up?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 4, 2019)

channel 4 news bit on it.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy managed to get through it without laughing

Cathy Newman didn't


----------



## Badgers (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

Badgers said:


>




Genuine or spoof?


----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

Is it time to merge this thread with the "lib dems are shit" thread?


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2019)

Oh come on.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 4, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Genuine or spoof?



i really can't tell any more...


----------



## likesfish (Jun 4, 2019)

the Cuks could still change the face of uk politics but I could win the Euromillions and frankly my euromillions win is probably the better bet


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 4, 2019)




----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2019)

If anyone was wondering why they spent all that money on Facebook...


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 4, 2019)

This thread should now perhaps have its title updated to "Defecting MPs found, and split, Change UK within six months."


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

This bit is amazing. They really expected to be exactly like the LibDems without being the LibDems and suddenly become the third party in England.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

Wonder why voters, faced with two parties on the ballot with identical positions, chose the more established credible option, did not expect this


----------



## moochedit (Jun 4, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> i really can't tell any more...



Nope nor can i


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 4, 2019)

Apologies for the second tweet, but this one is hilarious.

Gapes gave Chucka that spurned lover treatment lmao.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 4, 2019)

kebabking said:


> I fear that Tingers looking to become LD's are going to be in for a struggle: the LD's are a pretty 'local' bunch, the constituancy parties have a lot of clout over selection of candidates - which is why they have so many oddballs.
> 
> Joining now isn't a problem, but being selected as the LD candidate for X constituency in 2022 or whenever is by no means guaranteed - the local party may not like the sitting ex-Labour/Tory MP, and may have their own candidate.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't be so sure, they built themselves in the first place by persuading any independents going to join them. Reckon they'd take them, especially in places like Totnes were LD's won't win anyway. Course, then they'll likely lose anyway.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 4, 2019)

"Next on BBC Four and featuring strong language from the start, David Oyelowo stars as Chuka Umanna in "Chucked It All Away", the story of 2019's here-today, gone-tomorrow political experiment..."


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 4, 2019)

This bit's great, as it shows;

- They don't understand that an impression isn't when someone saw something, it's just when it appeared on a page. Not sure what it is now, but it used to be that an impression was the content appearing on a page for at least one second. Many suppliers didn't even subscribe to that basic requirement. Impressions basically mean nothing.

- Likewise they don't understand engagements, given videos can be set to autoplay when scrolling past.

- They also don't get how ad clicks are often click bombs, where a thumb on a mobile screen accidentally clicks on an ad when scrolling down.

- I'm suspicious that they don't understand the difference between 1 million people and something happening 1 million times too. Were the clicks and engagements uniques?

I wonder who did their social media, and how much they laughed on the way to the bank.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 4, 2019)

> had over 5.8 million engagements (including shares, video views, comments, likes)



what proportion were comments along the lines of "fuck off" or shares with comments like "what a bunch of twunts", though?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 5, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> This bit is amazing. They really expected to be exactly like the LibDems without being the LibDems and suddenly become the third party in England.


Given the media's loathing of Corbyn and the 3 year lord of the flies going on in the tory party, it's reasonable to say the chuks had a fair wind behind them (in the world of politics at least, if not the world of humans). Since then...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Given the media's loathing of Corbyn and the 3 year lord of the flies going on in the tory party, it's reasonable to say the chuks had a fair wind behind them (in the world of politics at least, if not the world of humans). Since then...



The wind turned out to be a fart


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> what proportion were comments along the lines of "fuck off" or shares with comments like "what a bunch of twunts", though?


96.3%


----------



## andysays (Jun 5, 2019)

killer b said:


> Oh come on.


...lads..?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 5, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> 96.3%



Yeah, my thumbs were worn down to a nubbin.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2019)

killer b said:


> Oh come on.


Come on come on
Come on come on
Come on come on
Antifa hooligans


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 5, 2019)

agricola said:


> If anyone was wondering why they spent all that money on Facebook...




Gives further weight to my theory that politics has become a job for those too mediocre to make it in corporate middle management.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 5, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> This bit is amazing. They really expected to be exactly like the LibDems without being the LibDems and suddenly become the third party in England.



They've been utterly delusional since day one.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 5, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> This bit is amazing. They really expected to be exactly like the LibDems without being the LibDems and suddenly become the third party in England.



They leaked early plans to crush the Lib Dems, mostly by ???? methods.

Change UK plan to grab the Lib Dems’ money, members and policies – leaked memo


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 5, 2019)

Artaxerxes said:


> They leaked early plans to crush the Lib Dems, mostly by ???? methods.
> 
> Change UK plan to grab the Lib Dems’ money, members and policies – leaked memo







> LD STRATEGY
> 
> Objectives
> 
> ...


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 5, 2019)

andysays said:


> ...lads..?



...Eileen...


----------



## vanya (Jun 5, 2019)

All That Is Solid ...: Bye Bye Change UK



> Congratulations to Anna Soubry, now undisputed supremo of Change UK. After a successful EU election campaign where they, *checks notes*, swept the board with three per cent of the vote she can look forward to filling up the centre ground of politics alongside, um, "Iron" Mike Gapes, Ann Coffey, Chris Leslie, Joan Ryan, and, and ... what happened to the other six? Trumping all news, including Trump's visit, the departure of six Change UK MPs is all left Twitter and the internet can think about. What then are the grounds for the split?
> 
> Properly principled reasons, of course. Continuity CHUK have interpreted the EU elections as a vista bursting with opportunity, despite the Greens and the Liberal Democrats cleaning up. The splitters, ostensibly led by Chuka (you _can_ take the Chuka out the CHUK), think this is nonsense and want to go back to being independent MPs. That is office holders without responsibilities to anyone but themselves. Nothing to do with the LibDems' success and thinking they are now a better bet, nothing at all. But the tensions were present before the EU poll - one wing, six of them, thought an alliance with the LibDems would be super handy whereas the minority, five, fancied it as a party building exercise. An exercise where, um, ordinary punters still cant join. And simmering in the background were the rival leadership ambitions of Chuka and Chris Leslie. Thank the fates we will never know the dreariness of a Change UK leadership contest.
> 
> ...


----------



## TopCat (Jun 5, 2019)

This news of renaming but adding Continuity? I thought the rump were the runts for sure, but this final boss level stupidity?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 7, 2019)

Not that I'm a big fan of Zahawi's outfit...but I'm enjoying their work wrt ChUK(less)!
A solid, statistical 0%


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 7, 2019)

A nice round number


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 7, 2019)

Christ are people really going to vote for the brexit party in a general election?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Christ are people really going to vote for the brexit party in a general election?


Not if Johnson has anything to do with it.


----------



## Benjy1992 (Jun 7, 2019)

Think it's about time Change UK just united with the Lib Dems. They've tried and failed as the recent EU elections show and the resignation of several of their MPs. 

Then there could be a real focus on building an effective, pro-EU centrist party that can stand up to the rising tide of nationalism and populism.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 7, 2019)

Change backed candidate last night in P Boro  ( 'Renew' ) weighed in with a wopping 45 votes i see - beaten by Monster Raving, obvs


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Christ are people really going to vote for the brexit party in a general election?


Yes


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2019)

Benjy1992 said:


> Think it's about time Change UK just united with the Lib Dems. They've tried and failed as the recent EU elections show and the resignation of several of their MPs.
> 
> Then there could be a real focus on building an effective, pro-EU centrist party that can stand up to the rising tide of nationalism and populism.


if at first you don't succeed, split and try again


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2019)

I’m sure the Lib Dems would welcome the CHUks with open arms, bringing with them a dowry of infighting and a 0% vote share. What a winning proposition.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 7, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> I’m sure the Lib Dems would welcome the CHUks with open arms, bringing with them a dowry of infighting and a 0% vote share. What a winning proposition.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 7, 2019)

Benjy1992 said:


> Think it's about time Change UK just united with the Lib Dems. They've tried and failed as the recent EU elections show and the resignation of several of their MPs.
> 
> Then there could be a real focus on building an effective, pro-EU centrist party that can stand up to the rising tide of nationalism and populism.


Yes defo, the obvious answer to nationalism and populism is a political movement that says let's just do the last 40 years again


----------



## newbie (Jun 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Christ are people really going to vote for the brexit party in a general election?


Depends when it's held. If, for instance, incoming PM Johnson loses a vote of no confidence in July and calls an election, they might well.  The numbers are meaningless for voting intention for 2022.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2019)

Everything’s a bit tumultuous at the moment so I’d not read too much into the polls, a GE would focus minds a bit more and likely change things.  One effect is that it will be harder to chose a team if you want to vote tactically, we’ve moved quite a bit away from vote Labour here or vote Lib Dem here to beat the scum, maybe even less certain who the ‘scum’ is now in some places (don’t think it was the tories last night).


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Everything’s a bit tumultuous at the moment so I’d not read too much into the polls, a GE would focus minds a bit more and likely change things.  One effect is that it will be harder to chose a team if you want to vote tactically, we’ve moved quite a bit away from vote Labour here or vote Lib Dem here to beat the scum, maybe even less certain who the ‘scum’ is now in some places (don’t think it was the tories last night).


don't fool yourself, they're all scum


----------



## brogdale (Jun 8, 2019)

Home at last.

Mail has Chukky standing for the yellow tories.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 9, 2019)

The Tories weren’t scum last night. Oh fuck Urban needs a reboot post haste.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yes defo, the obvious answer to nationalism and populism is a political movement that says let's just do the last 40 years again


Forget it, the sums for this lot go
Brexit=Trump=sudden nationalism throughout Europe
In 2015 everything was fucking amazing mind.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 9, 2019)

Handily, someone has saved many of Chuka's Streatham leaflets online.


----------



## a_chap (Jun 9, 2019)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 9, 2019)

his principles have struck again.


----------



## andysays (Jun 9, 2019)

Soubry still wishes he hadn't chucked it in

Change UK: Chuka Umunna's exit a 'serious mistake', says Anna Soubry


> Chuka Umunna made a "serious mistake" in leaving Change UK, the party's new leader Anna Soubry has said... ...Ms Soubry said it was the MP for Streatham's departure that would be most keenly felt. "I will always be more sad than you can imagine that Chuka is not with us," she told the Guardian. "I think he's a man of huge ability and talents, and I think he has made a very serious mistake."


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 9, 2019)

Soubrey says in that piece that Umunna was key reason she flipped from Tories to Change nee TIG. What a fucking lemon hahaha


----------



## TopCat (Jun 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Soubrey says in that piece that Umunna was key reason she flipped from Tories to Change nee TIG. What a fucking lemon hahaha


She looks around her headquarters (Gapes's front room), Joan is going on about hands and Gapes comes in wearing a tits apron offering round frozen calamari.  She starts to weep...Everything changed so quickly.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2019)

Dodgy bar charts and ‘it’s a straight fight between xxx and my party’ are election leaflet cliches plagiarised off the lib dems anyway, so he should fit in nicely.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2019)

TopCat said:


> She looks around her headquarters (Gapes's front room), Joan is going on about hands and Gapes comes in wearing a tits apron offering round frozen calamari.  She starts to weep...Everything changed so quickly.


The BBC Four drama version of this is going to be amazing.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 10, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> The BBC Four drama version of this is going to be amazing.



BBC 3 comedy surely?


----------



## gosub (Jun 10, 2019)

straight to DVD surely


----------



## brogdale (Jun 10, 2019)

Beer spluttered over keyboard moment!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 10, 2019)

LOL


----------



## binka (Jun 10, 2019)

I don't know where else to put this so this will do. Was watching bbc2 last night and a new program came on where 5 celebs have dinner and play games with the loser picking up the bill. I only stuck it out for ten minutes but Rachel Johnson (her of change UK fame) was on it and she was a right sneery prick to the other celebs and then made the ludicrous claim 'people think I'm posh but I'm not, my dad was just a civil servant' is she for fucking real? Does she actually think she's not posh? Anyway I guess the point I'm making is she's a terrible person


----------



## brogdale (Jun 10, 2019)




----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 12, 2019)

The Graun finally cottons on to what the rest of us were saying on the day TIG was founded ... 



Which reminded me of this absolute gem from February:


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 13, 2019)

Yeesh.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 13, 2019)

'The Independent Group for Change', rolls off the tongue so well, not. 

Currently polling at 1%, they would be better going with 'The Independent Group for Loose Change' , what a bunch of complete deluded twats.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 13, 2019)

Proposal for this thread to be renamed "Tinge-CUK's time is up"


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2019)

TIG FC, TIG FC, their only goals are own goals, the only club for me today, tomorrow this I might not say.

TIG FC, TIG FC, changed sides at half time, bollocks can I make this rhyme?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> 'The Independent Group for Change', rolls off the tongue so well, not.
> 
> Currently polling at 1%, they would be better going with 'The Independent Group for Loose Change' , what a bunch of complete deluded twats.


IGC, sounds like a communist sect of about 17 members globally, incredible


----------



## belboid (Jun 13, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> IGC, sounds like a communist sect of about 17 members globally, incredible


except they're not that big


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> IGC, sounds like a communist sect of about 17 members globally, incredible


.


----------



## agricola (Jun 13, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> Proposal for this thread to be renamed "Tinge-CUK's time is up"



or maybe just a little edit - "Change UK:  Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group, and resigns"


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2019)

I predict a great future for the non-aligned perpetual resignation party.

Yes we can change our membership. Yes we can change our name. Ours is a dynamic party that is not afraid to lurch with the times. You have to be nimble when your choice of centre ground is to be found on some small rock in space, hurtling towards the void. Ours is a light that burns so bright for such a short period that we were even going to call ourselves Chukas Comet, until someone got cold feet due to fears that people might associate us with a high street purveyor of electrical goods that included deadly tumble dryers.


----------



## klang (Jun 13, 2019)

brogdale said:


> .


_Change always starts with a dot_ (Rashee Tsaan 18:2/1c**)


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 13, 2019)

Proposal to rename this thread, "The rise, fall, and continued fall, of Change UK"


----------



## Sue (Jun 13, 2019)

agricola said:


> or maybe just a little edit - "Change UK:  Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group, and resigns"


Or "Change UK:  Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group, and resigns and then they change their name by which point we've all completely lost interest".


----------



## Balbi (Jun 13, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


> Proposal to rename this thread, "The rise, fall, and continued fall, of Change UK"



Ch-ch-ch-changes, turn and face the strange...


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2019)

In order:


The Independent Group 
Change UK 
Change UK - The Independent Group 
ForChange_Now 
The Independent Group for Change
Can anyone see any other combo?


----------



## mauvais (Jun 13, 2019)

Chindependange.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 13, 2019)

NOTE TO EDITORS please do NOT confuse with Chindappendage, this is a WHOLLY unrelated entity shown below


----------



## Brainaddict (Jun 13, 2019)

Truly they are the gift from the Universe that keeps on giving. I've certainly got more out-loud laughs from them than from the last series of HIGNFY.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 13, 2019)

NOTE TO EDITORS oh NO how do I do a recall QUICK I've accidentally put in a request to Companies House and if it goes through we will be called the CHINDILDO DEPENDENCE PARTAAAAANGE


----------



## Brainaddict (Jun 13, 2019)

Aaaand


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 13, 2019)

Brainaddict said:


> Aaaand



A rat swimming to a sinking ship


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2019)




----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2019)

Dont take away my breakaway. Or tamper with my snake array. I'm going to give my stake away, cos I believe in yesterday.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2019)

Can we just take a moment to reflect on how many heads in the media said we were all supposed to take these lot seriously. These people are stealing a living.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> Can we just take a moment to reflect on how many heads in the media said we were all supposed to take these lot seriously. These people are stealing a living.



They've got their excuses and have parroted them at length already. Ooh these times they move in mysterious ways etc. Even when its dull shit like this where the conventional wisdom would also have been not to take this lot, or any other new 'centrist party' seriously. But ooh ooh its all weird now, we have populist charismatic shit beacons lighting up the political atmosphere, we thought all the old conventions were dead, blah blah mcshittery.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 13, 2019)

I think we should also briefly reflect on how this is the first successful victory for Change.org.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2019)

mauvais said:


> I think we should also briefly reflect on how this is the first successful victory for Change.org.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 13, 2019)

elbows said:


> View attachment 174124



Of the two people in that picture, one is trying very hard not to piss himself laughing, and the other is trying pathetically hard to put a brave face on it.

In the next laughing-so-hard-i-think-i'm-going-to-shit-myself moment, I look forward to seeing Chuckles receive a single, solitary vote in the LibDem leadership election.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 13, 2019)

"I _knew_ I shouldn't have called my new party the Petition Dot Parliament Dot UK Party" - Chuka Umunna, mid-July 2019


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 13, 2019)

Given that recent Council ward by election in Chukas constituency almost saw a Labour Council seat fall to LDs Chuka might reckon he is in with a chance of keeping his seat if general election happens.

LDs have gained a lot of votes in Lambeth due to Brexit. 

This despite the Lambeth Labour party and the Labour run administration supporting second referendum. Being clearly Remain as are roughly 80% of Lambeth voters. 

Chuka is Labour MP in area in which most Labour supporters are Remain. 

His defection to LDs is inexcusable.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2019)

elbows said:


> They've got their excuses and have parroted them at length already. Ooh these times they move in mysterious ways etc. Even when its dull shit like this where the conventional wisdom would also have been not to take this lot, or any other new 'centrist party' seriously. But ooh ooh its all weird now, we have populist charismatic shit beacons lighting up the political atmosphere, we thought all the old conventions were dead, blah blah mcshittery.




they wanted to believe, like slack-jawed Mulders trying to will a saviour party into being.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 13, 2019)

Has the Lib Dem leadership contest started yet?


----------



## belboid (Jun 13, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Has the Lib Dem leadership contest started yet?


Nominations closed last Friday.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 13, 2019)

Chuka storming out and joining the DUP when he finds out


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 13, 2019)

I'd put money on Chuks not lasting that long in the Lib Dems. He'll remind the activists too much of the c grade management consultant cabal of Orange Bookers that  turned up and so royally fucked them over 15 years ago.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2019)

Amazing


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jun 13, 2019)

Seems like Chukka's only option really. Where else? He couldn't go back to Labour.
As I'm in his constituency it'll be an interesting general election when it come !


----------



## Old Spark (Jun 13, 2019)

Said to be looking at Twickenham or Richmond Park.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 13, 2019)

from teh tweeter


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2019)

> The Streatham MP told the Times he had been "wrong" to think "millions of politically homeless people... wanted a new option on the ballot paper".
> 
> "I also think I vastly underestimated the importance of having an infrastructure and existing relationships with voters," he added.



MP Chuka Umunna joins the Lib Dems

May as well have said 'from the moment I first saw the logo, I knew that I was screwed'.

Never mind, he is wiser now, he has drunk from the font pain of knowledge.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 14, 2019)

Change UK's loss is the Liberal's loss also.


----------



## moochedit (Jun 14, 2019)

Balbi said:


> Chuka storming out and joining the DUP when he finds out



Ukip have a contest coming up as well


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 14, 2019)

LibDems once again evidencing their own stupidity taking this egotistical waster on board. He won't keep his current seat and his egomania will only cause internal problems.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 14, 2019)

Remember when he was going to run for the Labour leadership and the media thought he was just the saviour the party needed?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Remember when he was going to run for the Labour leadership and the media thought he was just the saviour the party needed?


From "the British Obama" to "can I have a safe seat please Vince?". What a career trajectory. His book is going to be brilliant. "I had the last laugh: The Chances and Changes of Chuka Umunna"


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Remember when he was going to run for the Labour leadership and the media thought he was just the saviour the party needed?


The glory days


----------



## andysays (Jun 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Amazing



All too believable though.

He doesn't give a damn about "his" area, any more than he cares about the ex-colleagues he's abandoned. He clearly cares only about ensuring his only future.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jun 14, 2019)

Wonder what the bookies odds are on him joining the tories?


----------



## agricola (Jun 14, 2019)

elbows said:


> MP Chuka Umunna joins the Lib Dems
> 
> May as well have said 'from the moment I first saw the logo, I knew that I was screwed'.
> 
> Never mind, he is wiser now, he has drunk from the font pain of knowledge.



It is a good job the bright young minds have all left TiG, otherwise this post of yours would have them spending hours looking to find the pain of knowledge font to download to Publisher.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 14, 2019)

19sixtysix said:


> Wonder what the bookies odds are on him joining the tories?


Five years > National Liberals


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Amazing



He's very flexible because he wants to stay electable


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 14, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> He's very flexible because he wants to stay electable


You just know he's _reached out_ to a creative mind and _onboarded_ them to _roundtable_ a _thinkwank_


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

.,


----------



## gosub (Jun 14, 2019)

andysays said:


> All too believable though.
> 
> He doesn't give a damn about "his" area, any more than he cares about the ex-colleagues he's abandoned. He clearly cares only about ensuring his only future.


Is there no other career path open to him? I presume the ones that have left to be independent rightly know their days in politics are up


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Amazing



It's like he's fucking forgotten that it was the Lib Dems sucking up to the Tories that got us to where we are now, the pathetic, spineless careerist twat.


----------



## elbows (Jun 14, 2019)

editor said:


> It's like he's fucking forgotten that it was the Lib Dems sucking up to the Tories that got us to where we are now, the pathetic, spineless careerist twat.



He probably hasnt forgotten, but he looked at the recent election results and concluded that enough of the electorate had forgotten or had those concerns trumped by bigger concerns.


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2019)

Probably been posted a hundred times but what the hell. Probably fake too. But who cares, Fuck 'im.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 14, 2019)

I suspect this'll backfire on the Lib Dems in an election.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

(((((tigger)))))


----------



## moochedit (Jun 14, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> I suspect this'll backfire on the Lib Dems in an election.
> 
> View attachment 174175



Let's hope although he might not still be in the lib dems by the time of the next election.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 14, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> (((((tigger)))))



*Pooh: *Chuka what on Earth are you doing here?
*Tigger: *Hi Vince, I've made myself homeless again, don't suppose you've got somewhere for me to stay?
*Pooh: *Oh bother ... alright but you can't do the po...
*Tigger:* Hurrah!
The blunderful thing about tiggers
Is tiggers are blunderful things!
Their ideals are made out of rubber
Their loyalties made out of springs!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 14, 2019)

Vinnie the Pooh?


----------



## Libertad (Jun 14, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Vinnie the Pooh?



Bit shit.


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2019)

> “You can’t trust a word the Lib Dems say”: here is an entirely accurate summation tweeted to the world in 2013 by the new Liberal Democrat MP for Streatham, Chuka Umunna. Announcing his second defection in four months, Umunna last night posed alongside Lib Dem leader Vince Cable, whom he once astutely declared “can’t run away from his record as part of the Tory-led government or try to pretend Tory policies have nothing to do with the Lib Dems”. Just two years ago, he bitterly declared he “can’t forgive” what the Lib Dems have “done to my area”; indeed that he “could never countenance suggesting voters support Liberal Democratic or Conservative candidates on account of their Remain credentials – this would require turning a blind eye to the cuts to our local schools, the NHS and other public services instigated by both parties in government from 2010 to 2015”.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to shift their opinions: as John Maynard Keynes once put it, “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” But what facts have changed about the Lib Dems since 2017? Both Cable and Jo Swinson, the frontrunner to replace him as leader, are unrepentant about the austerity they imposed on the country, and which Umunna all too recently passionately condemned them for. It gets better. At the end of April, a leaked document from Umunna’s Change UK revealed his then-party’s plans to wipe out the Lib Dems as an electoral force. Umunna has gone from seeking to politically extinguish a party to becoming its enthusiastic parliamentary representative in the course of seven weeks.





> In the meantime, enough of this farce. Umunna was elected to parliament wearing a Labour rosette, on the back of a Labour manifesto, just two years ago. When the Change UK European parliamentary candidate David Macdonald defected to the Lib Dems a month ago, Umunna said it was “disappointing that this candidate has chosen to pledge allegiance to another party – he has let down his fellow candidates and activists”. The same goes for a man who, in part, owes his parliamentary salary to the Labour activists who sacrificed their precious time pounding streets, knocking on doors, and delivering leaflets to get him elected. Umunna is now in his third party within four months and, rather than insulting the voters who opted for a Labour candidate, he should go back to the people and give them a final say. That he won’t is both cowardice and hypocrisy – and is exactly why Umunna is so emblematic of our broken politics.


Chuka Umunna’s self-serving hypocrisy is emblematic of our broken politics | Owen Jones


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

"honest" chuka umunna has found his natural home


----------



## 2hats (Jun 14, 2019)

editor said:


> Probably fake too.


Likely fake as Twitter's own search engine won't locate it.

e2a: That hashtag appears to have first appeared on Twitter around 0052UTC this morning (14 June 2019) and never before (other than as part of an image).


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 14, 2019)

Chuka had the sense to ditch the no hope Labour party who haven't got a cat in hell's chance of ever achieving power under the present Marxist leadership. He tried to form a new party which didn't work (this was the same story with the old SDP, shame that there seems to be no chance of forming new parties) so as a centrist he has joined the LIbDems who currently occupy the centre
Good for him, a realist


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> under the present Marxist leadership.



Nearer to Harpo than Karl!
As in not being vocal.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Chuka had the sense to ditch the no hope Labour party who haven't got a cat in hell's chance of ever achieving power under the present Marxist leadership. He tried to form a new party which didn't work (this was the same story with the old SDP, shame that there seems to be no chance of forming new parties) so as a centrist he has joined the LIbDems who currently occupy the centre
> Good for him, a realist


----------



## TopCat (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Chuka had the sense to ditch the no hope Labour party who haven't got a cat in hell's chance of ever achieving power under the present Marxist leadership. He tried to form a new party which didn't work (this was the same story with the old SDP, shame that there seems to be no chance of forming new parties) so as a centrist he has joined the LIbDems who currently occupy the centre
> Good for him, a realist


Hello Brian. Welcome to the boards. It's traditional here to bait and ridicule people with opposing (wrong) political views. So don't be surprised when you get cunted off eh?


----------



## Argonia (Jun 14, 2019)

If you think Chuk is a realist I would hate to see your version of a deluded person.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Chuka had the sense to ditch the no hope Labour party who haven't got a cat in hell's chance of ever achieving power under the present Marxist leadership. He tried to form a new party which didn't work (this was the same story with the old SDP, shame that there seems to be no chance of forming new parties) so as a centrist he has joined the LIbDems who currently occupy the centre
> Good for him, a realist


I'm not a Labour or Corbyn supporter and I've posted ad nauseam about their failings. However, in terms of day to day politics, the one single thing that held Labour and Corbyn back/provided ammunition for their enemies/allowed the tories to get away with it, was Chukka and his cronies.


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 14, 2019)

Argonia said:


> If you think Chuk is a realist I would hate to see your version of a deluded person.



I would start with any of the current Labour party politburo (Corbyn, McDonnel et al) and their supporters who are deluded enough to think they would ever achieve power
My Labour lies with New Labour who won three consecutive elections


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> I would start with any of the current Labour party politburo (Corbyn, McDonnel et al) and their supporters who are deluded enough to think they would ever achieve power
> My Labour lies with New Labour who won three consecutive elections


ah, your labour is lying labour

you support lies like the 45 minutes bullshit

you can stuff your labour where the sun don't shine


----------



## TopCat (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> I would start with any of the current Labour party politburo (Corbyn, McDonnel et al) and their supporters who are deluded enough to think they would ever achieve power
> My Labour lies with New Labour who won three consecutive elections



Bless.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Chuka had the sense to ditch the no hope Labour party who haven't got a cat in hell's chance of ever achieving power under the present Marxist leadership. He tried to form a new party which didn't work (this was the same story with the old SDP, shame that there seems to be no chance of forming new parties) so as a centrist he has joined the LIbDems who currently occupy the centre
> Good for him, a realist


by realist you mean cunt


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 14, 2019)

Wilf said:


> I'm not a Labour or Corbyn supporter and I've posted ad nauseam about their failings. However, in terms of day to day politics, the one single thing that held Labour and Corbyn back/provided ammunition for their enemies/allowed the tories to get away with it, was Chukka and his cronies.



The only thing that holds Labour back is Corbyn himself along with his loony Momentum support


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> The only thing that holds Labour back is Corbyn himself along with his loony Momentum support


so just the leader and the membership then


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 14, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> by realist you mean cunt



Pathetic, back to the playground


----------



## TopCat (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> The only thing that holds Labour back is Corbyn himself along with his loony Momentum support


Those loony lefties eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Pathetic, back to the playground


you don't like children, do you


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2019)

the labour that lost scotland. As well as all the rest.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> the labour that lost scotland. As well as all the rest.


jim murphy 

what a fucking wanker


----------



## Wilf (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> The only thing that holds Labour back is Corbyn himself along with his loony Momentum support


With Corbyn's victory, there was a chance the party could return to some kind of revamped social democracy. That's not my politics, but it looked like there was a route out of the Blair years. I've been critical of Corbyn/Momentum for their insufficient engagement with the working class, their failure to organise, to resist, certainly. But the likes of Chuka Umuna were never on board for anything other than the cold dead managerialism and neoliberalism of the Blair years. In terms of Labour functioning as an efficient social democratic project, they were the real enemy.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 14, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> I would start with any of the current Labour party politburo (Corbyn, McDonnel et al) and their supporters who are deluded enough to think they would ever achieve power
> My Labour lies with New Labour who won three consecutive elections


More unequal society, million dead in Iraq, lies as the currency of politics...


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 14, 2019)

God it must be hard backing Blairism these days though, a creed based on the "win power at any cost, fuck principles" mantra which hasn't won anything in years and has been thoroughly booted into touch in 2019, so can only be justified by manically denouncing anyone with principles, even principles as anemic as those of late-model Corbynism.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 14, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> God it must be hard backing Blairism these days though, a creed based on the "win power at any cost, fuck principles" mantra which hasn't won anything in years and has been thoroughly booted into touch in 2019, so can only be justified by manically denouncing anyone with principles, even principles as anemic as those of late-model Corbynism.


then again


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 14, 2019)

ska invita said:


> then again





CHUK on 1%, up 1%, following Chuka's resignation!


----------



## andysays (Jun 14, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> CHUK on 1%, up 1%, following Chuka's resignation!



CHUK up is right...


----------



## treelover (Jun 14, 2019)

Wilf said:


> I'm not a Labour or Corbyn supporter and I've posted ad nauseam about their failings. However, in terms of day to day politics, the one single thing that held Labour and Corbyn back/provided ammunition for their enemies/allowed the tories to get away with it, was Chukka and his cronies.



edit.


----------



## treelover (Jun 14, 2019)

Wilf said:


> With Corbyn's victory, there was a chance the party could return to some kind of revamped social democracy. That's not my politics, but it looked like there was a route out of the Blair years. *I've been critical of Corbyn/Momentum for their insufficient engagement with the working class, their failure to organise, to resist, certainly.* But the likes of Chuka Umuna were never on board for anything other than the cold dead managerialism and neoliberalism of the Blair years. In terms of Labour functioning as an efficient social democratic project, they were the real enemy.



Every month at my Branch or CLP there is something on Palestine, etc, they have a collection for a food bank, but seemingly no practical action, most energy is on electoral campaigning, which is inevitable I suppose.


----------



## Supine (Jun 14, 2019)

https://newsthump.com/2019/06/14/liberal-democrats-form-new-breakaway-party-to-escape-chuka-umunna


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 14, 2019)




----------



## andysays (Jun 15, 2019)

Supine said:


> https://newsthump.com/2019/06/14/liberal-democrats-form-new-breakaway-party-to-escape-chuka-umunna



From the Telegraph


----------



## moochedit (Jun 15, 2019)

Have any of the other ex-tiggers joined the lib dems or just chuka?


----------



## Supine (Jun 15, 2019)

andysays said:


> From the Telegraph
> 
> View attachment 174255



I did wonder how long it'd be before that kind of article was released 

If the LD's even consider it before he wins a legitimate seat at the next GE they'll massively shoot themselves in the foot.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 15, 2019)

andysays said:


> From the Telegraph
> 
> View attachment 174255


There was clearly some sort of skeleton that led to Chuka abandoning his run for labour leader - wonder how secure that is now?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> Given that recent Council ward by election in Chukas constituency almost saw a Labour Council seat fall to LDs Chuka might reckon he is in with a chance of keeping his seat if general election happens.
> 
> LDs have gained a lot of votes in Lambeth due to Brexit.
> 
> ...



TBF, Thornton has a Lib Dem history. Not surprising they came so close, and Labour only really held on because every Lambeth Labour activist and cllr got roped into door-knocking/canvassing from the ward seat becoming vacant, onward.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Chuka had the sense to ditch the no hope Labour party who haven't got a cat in hell's chance of ever achieving power under the present Marxist leadership. He tried to form a new party which didn't work (this was the same story with the old SDP, shame that there seems to be no chance of forming new parties) so as a centrist he has joined the LIbDems who currently occupy the centre
> Good for him, a realist



Piss off, flims.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> There was clearly some sort of skeleton that led to Chuka abandoning his run for labour leader - wonder how secure that is now?



Safe for now, although tbf it's a fairly open secret, and not exactly earth-shaking.


----------



## keybored (Jun 15, 2019)




----------



## newbie (Jun 15, 2019)

Supine said:


> I did wonder how long it'd be before that kind of article was released
> 
> If the LD's even consider it before he wins a legitimate seat at the next GE they'll massively shoot themselves in the foot.


No.
When he quit the Labour party he claimed he wouldn't face a by-election because his values hadn't changed, the party had moved away from him.  Nonsense on stilts from my perspective, but a position he could plausibly claim as legitimate.  This time he's joined a party he has actively campaigned against, attacked, slagged off and urged us, who live in his constituency, to vote against.  He has no credible reason left to avoid a by-election now, except cowardice.  Please don't offer him a shred of encouragement by talking of him hanging on until a GE.  We want rid now.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 15, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Safe for now, although tbf it's a fairly open secret, and not exactly earth-shaking.


Is it? I never knew what it was!


----------



## Supine (Jun 15, 2019)

newbie said:


> No.
> When he quit the Labour party he claimed he wouldn't face a by-election because his values hadn't changed, the party had moved away from him.  Nonsense on stilts from my perspective, but a position he could plausibly claim as legitimate.  This time he's joined a party he has actively campaigned against, attacked, slagged off and urged us, who live in his constituency, to vote against.  He has no credible reason left to avoid a by-election now, except cowardice.  Please don't offer him a shred of encouragement by talking of him hanging on until a GE.  We want rid now.



Valid point


----------



## newbie (Jun 15, 2019)

Supine said:


> Valid point


The shame of it.  Emails from people I count as friends and family demanding to know why I've never previously admitted to being a closet LD, supporting student fees, austerity or shooting dogs.


----------



## andysays (Jun 15, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Is it? I never knew what it was!


There was talk about it here, but I can't remember if anyone with any inside info spilled the beans.

It can't be doing Class As though, or he'd have gone straight to the Tories and stood for leader there, given that appears to be a pre-condition for entering the race...


----------



## agricola (Jun 15, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Is it? I never knew what it was!



Its that he introduces himself to Americans and other foriegners as the MP for St. Reatham.


----------



## andysays (Jun 15, 2019)

newbie said:


> No.
> When he quit the Labour party he claimed he wouldn't face a by-election because his values hadn't changed, the party had moved away from him.  Nonsense on stilts from my perspective, but a position he could plausibly claim as legitimate.  This time he's joined a party he has actively campaigned against, attacked, slagged off and urged us, who live in his constituency, to vote against.  He has no credible reason left to avoid a by-election now, except cowardice.  Please don't offer him a shred of encouragement by talking of him hanging on until a GE.  We want rid now.


Not only will he hang on until the next GE, he will do everything in his power, like voting for the government in VONCs, to postpone the evil day for as long as possible


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 15, 2019)

andysays said:


> There was talk about it here, but I can't remember if anyone with any inside info spilled the beans.
> 
> It can't be doing Class As though, or he'd have gone straight to the Tories and stood for leader there, given that appears to be a pre-condition for entering the race...


Rumour I heard was similar to the rumours there used to be about Jason Donovan (which to be fair to the aussie Bell end were not true in his case). Not especially damaging and only a cunt would care.


----------



## killer b (Jun 15, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> similar to the rumours there used to be about Jason Donovan


What, that he doesn't sing his own songs and his songs are actually sung by the same singer who sings kylie's songs, slowed down? That would be instant death to a tilt at the labour leadership tbf


----------



## Benjy1992 (Jun 15, 2019)

"Vince Cable talks about increasing the minimum wage, but you can't trust a word the Lib Dems say." 

This tweet from Chuka Umunna. Need I say anymore.


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 15, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Piss off, flims.



Nice to see your response to grown up debate


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 15, 2019)

keybored said:


> View attachment 174268



That smile brings back unhappy memories of Tony Blair


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

newbie said:


> The shame of it.  Emails from people I count as friends and family demanding to know why I've never previously admitted to being a closet LD, supporting student fees, austerity or shooting dogs.



Mind you, only the older among them would make the "shooting dogs" comment.

(((((Rinka)))))


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

andysays said:


> Not only will he hang on until the next GE, he will do everything in his power, like voting for the government in VONCs, to postpone the evil day for as long as possible



Unless, as a Lib Dem, he can negotiate a berth at Cable's constituency, and possibly as leader of the Dims.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Rumour I heard was similar to the rumours there used to be about Jason Donovan (which to be fair to the aussie Bell end were not true in his case). Not especially damaging and only a cunt would care.



A section of his current majority - the church vote - would care.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Nice to see your response to grown up debate



You think your maunderings constitute "grown up debate"? 

You've got delusions of adequacy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> That smile brings back unhappy memories of Tony Blair



The rictus grin of a man who is bursting for a stranglewank.


----------



## andysays (Jun 15, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Rumour I heard was similar to the rumours there used to be about Jason Donovan (which to be fair to the aussie Bell end were not true in his case). Not especially damaging and only a cunt would care.


Yeah, I remember that now, hence the unedifying spectacle of him introducing his 'fiancee' to the press.


----------



## co-op (Jun 15, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Nice to see your response to grown up debate



It's possible to be grown up and still be an idiot. You're proving that well.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 15, 2019)

andysays said:


> From the Telegraph
> 
> View attachment 174255


I can understand why he would want too but I can't imagine why the fuck they would want him, It makes sense to drop Cable soon since age apart the man is tinted by the Coalition and if they want to move on they need to be rid of that and get a new Leader.
But it's hard to imagine they can't find a better internal candidate than Chuka especially if they pick up a reasonable number of seats at the next GE. Chuka is not only overly ambitious and full of his own sense of entitlement, his record is one of abject failure largely resulting from the previous points.


----------



## andysays (Jun 15, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> I can understand why he would want too but I can't imagine why the fuck they would want him, It makes sense to drop Cable soon since age apart the man is tinted by the Coalition and if they want to move on they need to be rid of that and get a new Leader.
> But it's hard to imagine they can't find a better internal candidate than Chuka especially if they pick up a reasonable number of seats at the next GE. Chuka is not only overly ambitious and full of his own sense of entitlement, his record is one of abject failure largely resulting from the previous points.


They're* already having a leadership contest, aren't they? I don't know if it's officially underway yet, but I thought there were two candidates declared. Can't remember their names.

So I can't imagine whoever wins will be overjoyed at the idea that they should make way for Chuka in a years time...

ETA * the LibDems


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 15, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mind you, only the older among them would make the "shooting dogs" comment.
> 
> (((((Rinka)))))


They strangle cats these days


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> I can understand why he would want too but I can't imagine why the fuck they would want him, It makes sense to drop Cable soon since age apart the man is tinted by the Coalition and if they want to move on they need to be rid of that and get a new Leader.
> But it's hard to imagine they can't find a better internal candidate than Chuka especially if they pick up a reasonable number of seats at the next GE. Chuka is not only overly ambitious and full of his own sense of entitlement, his record is one of abject failure largely resulting from the previous points.



I know 3 Lib Dem Prospective Parliamentary Candidates for constituencies neighbouring mine one is a genuinely decent person, the other two are drones who'll follow the party line up Tim Farron's arse, if necessary. They don't have that many aces in their hand, and Umunna will look like a good proposition, compared to Swinson et al, sadly.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> They strangle cats these days



Strangling cats for the Lib Dems, stranglewanks for Tories. What a world we live in.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 15, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, Thornton has a Lib Dem history. Not surprising they came so close, and Labour only really held on because every Lambeth Labour activist and cllr got roped into door-knocking/canvassing from the ward seat becoming vacant, onward.



Yes but the big swing to LDs was due to Brexit. ie national issues affected this Council by election.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 16, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> The only thing that holds Labour back is Corbyn himself along with his loony Momentum support



I thought you were against name calling, though?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 16, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> Yes but the big swing to LDs was due to Brexit. ie national issues affected this Council by election.



Not just. Thornton ward voters also felt betrayed by two cllrs in quick succession standing down in order to take advantage of personal advancement.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2019)

Could this saga get any funnier? I reckon it could if a new centrist party actually did successfully emerge, led by Rory Stewart and a few rogue Tory/Labour/TIG MP's, swallowing up the Lib Dems support and making Chuka look like a complete idiot yet again. 

Sounds far fetched, but this man is at the cutting edge of political miscalculation. I'm amazed the Lib Dems didn't throw him back like a thrice shipwrecked mariner deemed to be unlucky.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 18, 2019)

Chuka Umunna on his Lib Dem switch: 'This is the party I'll be a member of until the day I die'


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 18, 2019)

Fez909 said:


> Chuka Umunna on his Lib Dem switch: 'This is the party I'll be a member of until the day I die'



Is he planning to top himself soon?


----------



## moochedit (Jun 18, 2019)

Fez909 said:


> Chuka Umunna on his Lib Dem switch: 'This is the party I'll be a member of until the day I die'



Is he terminal?


----------



## Raheem (Jun 18, 2019)

He'd best cancel his membership on his deathbed, though, so as St Peter doesn't find his card.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 18, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Is he planning to top himself soon?


He is expecting a collision with irate constituents


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 18, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Could this saga get any funnier? I reckon it could if a new centrist party actually did successfully emerge, led by Rory Stewart and a few rogue Tory/Labour/TIG MP's, swallowing up the Lib Dems support and making Chuka look like a complete idiot yet again.
> 
> Sounds far fetched, but this man is at the cutting edge of political miscalculation. I'm amazed the Lib Dems didn't throw him back like a thrice shipwrecked mariner deemed to be unlucky.


No one seems to have mentioned Umunna's middle name is jonah


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 18, 2019)

Given a recent history such as his, _why_ would you say something like that?? Just say something else, for fuck's sake!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Given a recent history such as his, _why_ would you say something like that?? Just say something else, for fuck's sake!


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 18, 2019)

Wouldn’t the chuks have been better off waiting to see if they could catch a few deserters from the Tory party after their leadership election? Doesn’t seem like a very good strategic decision to fuck it all off now. Maybe Soubry’s rump party will attract a few deserters, improve their polling by attracting ‘sensible’ tories, whilst the LDs slip back behind them? That would be a funny (but unlikely) outcome.


----------



## elbows (Jun 18, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Wouldn’t the chuks have been better off waiting to see if they could catch a few deserters from the Tory party after their leadership election? Doesn’t seem like a very good strategic decision to fuck it all off now. Maybe Soubry’s rump party will attract a few deserters, improve their polling by attracting ‘sensible’ tories, whilst the LDs slip back behind them? That would be a funny (but unlikely) outcome.



Chuka did not like the lack of party apparatus, apparently he took various things for granted in the past and was most alarmed when they simply didnt exist in the makeshift world of change uk.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 18, 2019)

elbows said:


> Chuka did not like the lack of party apparatus, apparently he took various things for granted in the past and was most alarmed when they simply didnt exist in the makeshift world of change uk.


He thought elves did all the work while he was asleep


----------



## elbows (Jun 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> He thought elves did all the work while he was asleep


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2019)

Fez909 said:


> Chuka Umunna on his Lib Dem switch: 'This is the party I'll be a member of until the day I die'


He'll go the way of auld Robin Cook


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 19, 2019)

elbows said:


> Chuka did not like the lack of party apparatus, apparently he took various things for granted in the past and was most alarmed when they simply didnt exist in the makeshift world of change uk.



He really isn't very bright is he?


----------



## TopCat (Jun 19, 2019)

Fez909 said:


> Chuka Umunna on his Lib Dem switch: 'This is the party I'll be a member of until the day I die'


I thought this was a newsthump type of link


----------



## TopCat (Jun 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> He thought elves did all the work while he was asleep


He really believes in Leadership.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 19, 2019)

I eagerly await more revelations from the former colleagues as to how much they hate each other now.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 10, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


>


it is a pity the number of days between each incarnation not listed


----------



## Sue (Aug 14, 2019)

On R4 just now calling for Corbyn to 'put aside his personal and political ego.'


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 14, 2019)

I see wollaston is a libdem now father


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 15, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I see wollaston is a libdem now father



I was in Totnes a short while ago, and the Mrs asked me what the town was like politically. I said it was the sort of place that was generally a fight between the tories and the lib dems. Little did I realise how that fight would all be within one person.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 15, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


>


Oswald Mosley - Conservative > Independent > Labour > New Party > British Union of Fascists > Brixton Prison > Holloway Prison with his wife


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 16, 2019)

Sue said:


> On R4 just now calling for Corbyn to 'put aside his personal and political ego.'



I read this few days ago:

Remainers will do anything to stop Brexit, except install Corbyn as PM. Why? | Rafael Behr

I agree with it. Any sensible Remainer would support Corbyn idea of temporary government. 

But that is not what Chuka and his Lib Dems are about. 

They would rather scupper this idea than see Corbyn temporarily running the country. 

As a Remainer I despair. 

The attitude of Chuka and Swinson bolsters left argument for Brexit. 

Chuka and his new LD chums want return to the good old days of (Neo Liberal) centre politics and an unreconstructed EU.

I'm afraid a lot of the mainstream Remain argument is about not just staying in EU but getting rid of "populists" like Corbyn and returning to supposedly sensible centre ground politics.


----------



## moochedit (Aug 16, 2019)

PR1Berske said:


>



What's the pink on the last column ("the inds")?

Is there a tig splinter group i've missed? 
(I assume the grey "ind" means not in any party?)

Needs updating for sarah whatshername joining the lib dems.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 16, 2019)

moochedit said:


> What's the pink on the last column ("the inds")?
> 
> Is there a tig splinter group i've missed?



yes, it was a split from tinge / upchuk


----------



## moochedit (Aug 16, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> yes, it was a split from tinge / upchuk



Of ffs!


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 17, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> Chuka and his new LD chums want return to the good old days of (Neo Liberal) centre politics and an unreconstructed EU.



I don't think it's that at all. That sort of analysis assumes Jo Swinson and the people around her care about political theory. Most Lib Dems don't, they just get elected because it's a steady job that makes them feel personally validated, it provides them with a social circle they'd otherwise lack, and because they're good at delivering leaflets without complaining.

I think this particular issue is much more that Jo Swinson was very young and naive when she got drawn by the bright lights of government into being part of the Tory coalition. It's hurt her politically ever since, both within and outside the party. So to get away from this she's decided to have a stance of 'no more coalitions' since running for leader, and you can see why. She had to end the narrative of 'Vote Lib Dem, get Tory / Labour' or whoever else they may back. Hence her coming out with 'We'd support a national unity government, but not under Corbyn', which got rightly ridiculed.

Now she's stuck. She wants to stop Brexit, but also wants to get away from the 'Lib Dems just prop up parties that don't win majorities' narrative, but the two may be mutually exclusive.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 17, 2019)

Gramsci said:


> Chuka and his new LD chums want return to the good old days of (Neo Liberal) centre politics and an unreconstructed EU.


Think you may be crediting them with more integrity than they actually have. A Labour-led caretaker government would give centrists much less influence than a Clarke/Harman/etc government, which would effectively be the MP's equivalent of a really good 90s nostalgia disco.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 17, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> I don't think it's that at all. That sort of analysis assumes Jo Swinson and the people around her care about political theory.


The fact that "centrists" like the LDs and their supporters don't see their politics as ideological (in fact believe their politics to be anti-ideological) does not mean that that those politics are not ideological.

Their decision to support the Tories underpinned by their highly ideological belief in neo-liberalism, their pro-EU beliefs are part of that neo-liberalism. Voting to attack those on benefits, voting to attack workers that is not naiveté it is a committed ideology


> Swinson said zero hour contracts were a “useful tool for flexibility in employment”.





> Laws called the NHS a “second-rate, centralised, state monopoly service,” and said, “private sector providers are more efficient than the NHS.” As well as arguing for “more competition within the NHS,” the authors called for more private prisons and Royal Mail privatization.






			
				Vince Cable said:
			
		

> You don't qualify for the Labour Shadow Cabinet these days unless you have studied the Venezuelan guide on how to bankrupt a rich economy





> Cable's comments follow those by his predecessor Tim Farron, who told Business Insider that Labour had now become a "Trotskyist party."


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 17, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> I don't think it's that at all. That sort of analysis assumes Jo Swinson and the people around her care about political theory. Most Lib Dems don't, they just get elected because it's a steady job that makes them feel personally validated, it provides them with a social circle they'd otherwise lack, and because they're good at delivering leaflets without complaining.
> 
> I think this particular issue is much more that Jo Swinson was very young and naive when she got drawn by the bright lights of government into being part of the Tory coalition. It's hurt her politically ever since, both within and outside the party. So to get away from this she's decided to have a stance of 'no more coalitions' since running for leader, and you can see why. She had to end the narrative of 'Vote Lib Dem, get Tory / Labour' or whoever else they may back. Hence her coming out with 'We'd support a national unity government, but not under Corbyn', which got rightly ridiculed.
> 
> Now she's stuck. She wants to stop Brexit, but also wants to get away from the 'Lib Dems just prop up parties that don't win majorities' narrative, but the two may be mutually exclusive.




if it wasn't for the brexit stuff, shed get into another coalition with tories at the drop of a hat


----------



## kebabking (Aug 17, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> if it wasn't for the brexit stuff, shed get into another coalition with tories at the drop of a hat



Nah, she wouldn't do it at the drop of a hat.

The Tory party of 2019 is a rather different party to the Tory party of 2010 - in the same way that Labour is - and the current Tory leadership are rather less LibDem friendly than the Tories of David Cameron and Oliver Letwin. The LD's also now have the experience of the fall-out of a Tory coalition to mull over.

I doubt the LD's would touch a Johnson-esque would-be government with a stick. A Rory Stewart/David Gauke/Amber Rudd/whatever government might be a different story, but even without the Brexity stuff, Johnson's very visible shift towards the right makes him simply too bitter a mouthful for the LD's.


----------



## binka (Aug 17, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Johnson's very visible shift towards the right makes him simply too bitter a mouthful for the LD's.


You give the lib dems far too much credit, they would relish the chance to be a 'moderating influence' within this government


----------



## Ming (Aug 17, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Nah, she wouldn't do it at the drop of a hat.
> 
> The Tory party of 2019 is a rather different party to the Tory party of 2010 - in the same way that Labour is - and the current Tory leadership are rather less LibDem friendly than the Tories of David Cameron and Oliver Letwin. The LD's also now have the experience of the fall-out of a Tory coalition to mull over.
> 
> I doubt the LD's would touch a Johnson-esque would-be government with a stick. A Rory Stewart/David Gauke/Amber Rudd/whatever government might be a different story, but even without the Brexity stuff, Johnson's very visible shift towards the right makes him simply too bitter a mouthful for the LD's.


Just one thing. Cameron lied about 'no top down reorganization of the NHS' and then introduced the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (opening up all core services to potential privatization) and as to old mister Letwin?
Letwin: 'NHS will not exist under Tories'


----------



## kebabking (Aug 17, 2019)

Ming said:


> Just one thing. Cameron lied about 'no top down reorganization of the NHS' and then introduced the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (opening up all core services to potential privatization) and as to old mister Letwin?
> Letwin: 'NHS will not exist under Tories'



Which rather illustrates my point about how the Tory party of 2019 looks rather different to how the Tory party of 2010 looked to the LD's, which therefore suggests they will react rather differently to it.


----------



## Ming (Aug 17, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Which rather illustrates my point about how the Tory party of 2019 looks rather different to how the Tory party of 2010 looked to the LD's, which therefore suggests they will react rather differently to it.


I don't think they've changed at all. Same agenda. Cameron's version was 'hug a husky' but was really 'now let's get rid of the green crap'. All about managing change I guess.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 17, 2019)

Ming said:


> Just one thing. Cameron lied about 'no top down reorganization of the NHS' and then introduced the Health and Social Care Act 2012 (opening up all core services to potential privatization) and as to old mister Letwin?
> Letwin: 'NHS will not exist under Tories'


What is the relevance of this re the LDs? 
As the Laws quote above shows the LDs are entirely happy, indeed eager even, to open up 'public' sectors to the market.


----------



## Ming (Aug 17, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Which rather illustrates my point about how the Tory party of 2019 looks rather different to how the Tory party of 2010 looked to the LD's, which therefore suggests they will react rather differently to it.


One other point. The 'trade deal' that John Bolton is saying we're 'first in line' for? Because we're predictably desperate. The NHS is one of the prime and most valuable cuts on the plate. And I doubt Congress will actually block it over the GFA (too much money involved).


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 17, 2019)

kebabking said:


> I doubt the LD's would touch a Johnson-esque would-be government with a stick. A Rory Stewart/David Gauke/Amber Rudd/whatever government might be a different story, but even without the Brexity stuff, Johnson's very visible shift towards the right makes him simply too bitter a mouthful for the LD's.



if they can go in to a coalition that includes post-farage UKIP in bolton, i would not be at all surprised


----------



## Funky_monks (Aug 17, 2019)

binka said:


> You give the lib dems far too much credit, they would relish the chance to be a 'moderating influence' within this government



Quite, to assume that the Lib Dems even know what a principle is, let alone have any is quite a leap.


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 17, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> The fact that "centrists" like the LDs and their supporters don't see their politics as ideological (in fact believe their politics to be anti-ideological) does not mean that that those politics are not ideological.
> 
> Their decision to support the Tories underpinned by their highly ideological belief in neo-liberalism, their pro-EU beliefs are part of that neo-liberalism. Voting to attack those on benefits, voting to attack workers that is not naiveté it is a committed ideology



I didn't say the Lib Dems though did I? I said Jo Swinson and those around her. Nick Clegg, David Laws and the orange bookers around them were definitely ideological and neo-liberal. They've all gone from positions of influence now though, apart perhaps from Ed Davey, but the membership didn't vote for him in the leadership election just now. If you want to waste your energy keeping on fighting a party that used to exist then that's of course up to you. I'd rather fight things as they currently are.



Kaka Tim said:


> if it wasn't for the brexit stuff, shed get into another coalition with tories at the drop of a hat



Would she balls. The last coalition took them from 57 seats to 8 seats. Do you really think they'd risk that again?



redsquirrel said:


> What is the relevance of this re the LDs?
> As the Laws quote above shows the LDs are entirely happy, indeed eager even, to open up 'public' sectors to the market.



Didn't David Laws lose his seat in 2015? Along with the rest of the neo-liberals that took over the party? The lib dems are shit in many ways, but they're really not shit in the ways they used to be, and people need to keep up with that.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 17, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> I didn't say the Lib Dems though did I? I said Jo Swinson and those around her. Nick Clegg, David Laws and the orange bookers around them were definitely ideological and neo-liberal. They've all gone from positions of influence now though, apart perhaps from Ed Davey, but the membership didn't vote for him in the leadership election just now. If you want to waste your energy keeping on fighting a party that used to exist then that's of course up to you. I'd rather fight things as they currently are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So how would you define their politics now? Apart from in a practical or operational sense (not wanting to suffer a 2015 type wipeout again) what's changed? Ideologically what's changed?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 17, 2019)

Also, sorry, but lol at idea that 'neoliberals took over' the libdems. The whole concept of the organge book was of a reclamation of liberalism (wasn't that it's tag line), reasserting liberal values in economics as well as social issues (!).

They didn't take it over, they were always there. The social liberal wing didn't even show a flicker of resistance either


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 17, 2019)

Cunts then, cunts now, forever cunts


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 17, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> So how would you define their politics now? Apart from in a practical or operational sense (not wanting to suffer a 2015 type wipeout again) what's changed? Ideologically what's changed?



I wouldn't. That's what's changed. They were always a rag bag of different opinions, best summed up by the idea that getting them to do anything was like hearding cats. It's why they succeeded at a local level, because they could say anything to anyone and still genuinely mean it, but also why they always failed at a national level, where people expect to see coherent policies. A bunch of neo-liberal 'professional politicians' then turned up, took them over, fucked them over, then left. Now they're back to being what they were before, a whole mix of different odd things, some good, some bad, depending on your viewpoint. Just look at the latest campaign strapline 'Bollocks to brexit'. What does that actually mean specifically? Very little, because they're unlikely to agree on any policy specifics. But it's a message that can be tailored to mean lots of different things to different people, which will keep them getting elected in various places now and again.


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 17, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> The social liberal wing didn't even show a flicker of resistance either



Lol.


----------



## mauvais (Aug 18, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> Would she balls. The last coalition took them from 57 seats to 8 seats. Do you really think they'd risk that again?


There's an old folk tale about this called, appropriately enough, Jo Swinson And The Frog.

Jo Swinson asks a frog to carry her across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of Jo Swinson entering into a coalition with the Tories, but Jo Swinson argues that if she did that, they would both drown. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport Jo Swinson. Jo Swinson climbs onto the frog's back and the frog begins to swim, but midway across the river, she enters into a coalition with the Tories, dooming them both. The dying frog asks Jo Swinson why she entered into this coalition with the Tories, to which Jo Swinson replies, "I think it's a genuinely good idea."


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 18, 2019)

mauvais said:


> There's an old folk tale about this called, appropriately enough, Jo Swinson And The Frog.
> 
> Jo Swinson asks a frog to carry her across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of Jo Swinson entering into a coalition with the Tories, but Jo Swinson argues that if she did that, they would both drown. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport Jo Swinson. Jo Swinson climbs onto the frog's back and the frog begins to swim, but midway across the river, she enters into a coalition with the Tories, dooming them both. The dying frog asks Jo Swinson why she entered into this coalition with the Tories, to which Jo Swinson replies, "I think it's a genuinely good idea."



Ok, you've completely lost me now.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 18, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> Ok, you've completely lost me now.


A variant of the scorpion and the frog story The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 18, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> A variant of the scorpion and the frog story The Scorpion and the Frog - Wikipedia



Ah right. So it's in Jo Swinson's essential nature to support the tories? If so, this particular avenue of this thread has become genuinely absurd.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 18, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> Ah right. So it's in Jo Swinson's essential nature to support the tories? If so, this particular avenue of this thread has become genuinely absurd.


It’s in the Lib Dem’s nature to think that a coalition with the Tories is a genuinely good idea.


----------



## kebabking (Aug 18, 2019)

kabbes said:


> It’s in the Lib Dem’s nature to think that a coalition with the Tories is a genuinely good idea.



More nuanced than that - it's in the nature of the lib Dems to think that _coalitions involving lib Dems _are a good idea. There were lots of lib Dems - including 'big beasts' of the party like Paddy Ashdown, Charles Kennedy and David Steele - who were opposed to varying degrees to the coalition with the Tories. Their opposition/misgivings were public knowledge, but in the halcyon days of party discipline they made their views clear and then kept quiet.

The Libs were very happy in the Lib-Lab coalition governments in Scotland from 1999 to 2007, and it's very clear that had the Blair government of 1997 not achieved the huge majority it did, and it needed some help, the LibDems would have happily provided it.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 18, 2019)

kebabking said:


> More nuanced than that - it's in the nature of the lib Dems to think that _coalitions involving lib Dems _are a good idea. There were lots of lib Dems - including 'big beasts' of the party like Paddy Ashdown, Charles Kennedy and David Steele - who were opposed to varying degrees to the coalition with the Tories. Their opposition/misgivings were public knowledge, but in the halcyon days of party discipline they made their views clear and then kept quiet.
> 
> The Libs were very happy in the Lib-Lab coalition governments in Scotland from 1999 to 2007, and it's very clear that had the Blair government of 1997 not achieved the huge majority it did, and it needed some help, the LibDems would have happily provided it.


Also current Welsh labour govt is strictly speaking a lab/lib coalition as it's propped up by the one sole Welsh LibDem AM (as well as former Welsh republican/ex mate of current & longstanding Communist Party supremo Robert Griffiths' mate Lord Daffyd Elis-Thomas) to make a majority


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 18, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> Ok, you've completely lost me now.



It's a parody of an old folk tale called Star Trek: Voyager.


----------



## moochedit (Aug 18, 2019)

0%! 

'Change UK' now polling at 0%


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 18, 2019)

moochedit said:


> 0%!
> 
> 'Change UK' now polling at 0%



Most polls since the start of June have had them on 0%, nice to see the Indy waking-up to the fact. 

Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia


----------



## Argonia (Aug 18, 2019)

0% seems a bit high


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 18, 2019)

Thing is, in abstract and from their view you can see why setting up a new venture made perfect sense. 

Here you had two centre parties - Tories and Labour - both of which had enjoyed recent electoral success by occupying centre, both of which had moved away, Labour to a social democratic position which in today's terms is considered radical and Tories to a more openly reactionary & nationalist position sometimes in conflict with business. The only other major party occupying centre had a history through latter half of 20c of being thoroughly underwhelming and after a spell in coalition govt were a busted flush trusted by nobody, particularly those who had voted for them previously. So in abstract they were on to a banker. 

Of course in wider context liberalism/centrism/whateverism is in decline globally which is largely why movements within Tories & Labour have moved them away.

Anyway whatever happens from here on in, socialism or barbarism and all that, at least we can all take heart at the significant weight of evidence demonstrating the death of the political centre as we've known it for forty long fucking years


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 18, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> I said Jo Swinson and those around her. Nick Clegg, David Laws and the orange bookers around them were definitely ideological and neo-liberal.


 The idea that Swinson is different is crap, she was part of that government, she pushed its policies, she still defends those policies, she supports that same politics that, via her beloved EU, is increasing inequality and worker exploitation. And any opposition to that politics, even of the mild type suggested by the current Labour Party is currently being attacked by the LDs. 



Gerry1time said:


> If you want to waste your energy keeping on fighting a party that used to exist then that's of course up to you. I'd rather fight things as they currently are.


To anyone with socialist or even social democratic politics the LDs are every bit as much the enemy as the Tories.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 18, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> To anyone with socialist or even social democratic politics the LDs are every bit as much the enemy as the Tories.



Would add to anybody working class they're as much the enemy


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 18, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Would add to anybody working class they're as much the enemy


Indeed, yes.


----------



## Funky_monks (Aug 18, 2019)

Gerry1time said:


> Ah right. So it's in Jo Swinson's essential nature to support the tories? If so, this particular avenue of this thread has become genuinely absurd.



Jo "we need a monument to Maggie" Swinson?

Of course it's in her nature to prop up the Tories. She's essentially a remain favouring Tory.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 18, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Thing is, in abstract and from their view you can see why setting up a new venture made perfect sense.
> 
> Here you had two centre parties - Tories and Labour - both of which had enjoyed recent electoral success by occupying centre, both of which had moved away, Labour to a social democratic position which in today's terms is considered radical and Tories to a more openly reactionary & nationalist position sometimes in conflict with business. The only other major party occupying centre had a history through latter half of 20c of being thoroughly underwhelming and after a spell in coalition govt were a busted flush trusted by nobody, particularly those who had voted for them previously. So in abstract they were on to a banker.
> 
> ...



I think that's all true, but also I think they massively overrated their own political clout as individuals. In the sense that they thought it was something where it's actually absolutely nothing. Someone who actually was what Umunna thinks he is could still do okish from a centrist position I think. None of these could though.


----------



## kebabking (Aug 18, 2019)

I think - being horribly fair to them - that the nature/extent of their opposition to Brexit coloured their views of the state of the techtonic plates of politics.

They are _so _horrified by brexit, and _so _convinced that it genuinely is the Fall of Rome, that it's genuinely the precursor to the dead paving the streets and 65m million people eating rotting turnips in the fields clad in rags before the population drops to Stone Age levels and existence, that they believed that everything was up for grabs, that anyone who tried hard enough could carve out political power in the style of Roman Centurions on Hadrian's Wall after 410.

The problem is that no one outside the Guardian thinks that Brexit poses the existential threat to absolutely everything that the Tinges do, and that therefore the plates weren't being thrown about by erupting magma in they way they thought they could take advantage of.


----------



## likesfish (Aug 19, 2019)

Also chukka generally  thinks he's UK's answer to Obama
	Unfortunatly he's the cheap uk remake of a hit US series without the gravitas,humour, intelligence or personality.
 He is brown and can wear a suit


----------



## Badgers (Sep 6, 2019)




----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2019)

Badgers said:


>



interesting choice, LibScum, vote a mere 11% last time


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 6, 2019)

belboid said:


> interesting choice, LibScum, vote a mere 11% last time


Fascinating wki page on  The One Love Party who contested the last election but have sadly deregistered			  One Love Party - Wikipedia


----------



## Argonia (Sep 6, 2019)

Where's Luciana Berger going to stand?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Where's Luciana Berger going to stand?


She was on Today this morning and refused to say.


----------



## agricola (Sep 6, 2019)

likesfish said:


> Also chukka generally  thinks he's UK's answer to Obama
> *  Unfortunatly he's the cheap uk remake of a hit US series without the gravitas,humour, intelligence or personality.*
> He is brown and can wear a suit



has that ever happened, though?  I can only think of when they've remade our things in such a crass way.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2019)

agricola said:


> has that ever happened, though?  I can only think of when they've remade our things in such a crass way.


The Apprentice


or Brighton Belles/The Upper Hand


----------



## agricola (Sep 6, 2019)

belboid said:


> The Apprentice
> 
> 
> or Brighton Belles/The Upper Hand



The latter two perhaps, but I am not sure the first had gravitas, humour, intelligence or personality on either side of the pond.


----------



## killer b (Sep 6, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Where's Luciana Berger going to stand?


Speculation I've seen says Finchley & Golders Green, but I dunno how real that is.


----------



## Argonia (Sep 6, 2019)

killer b said:


> Speculation I've seen says Finchley & Golders Green, but I dunno how real that is.



The LibDumbs only got 6% of the vote there last time round so it looks like Chuka and Luciana are going to have to head to the Jobcentre the day after the election.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 6, 2019)

killer b said:


> Speculation I've seen says Finchley & Golders Green, but I dunno how real that is.



Is there anything beyond her being Jewish in that?


----------



## killer b (Sep 6, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Is there anything beyond her being Jewish in that?


I'm not sure. I didn't care enough to look into it.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Is there anything beyond her being Jewish in that?


she's done some campaigning around there, before the euro's and at a couple of events. Surely too long a shot for someone of her 'stature.'  I suppose they could hope she would pick up quite a few disaffected Tories as well, but it seems a rather lnog shot.


----------



## killer b (Sep 6, 2019)

Actually, my boss told me she lives there (not - shockingly - Wavertree)


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 7, 2019)

Maybe both her and chuckles, on failing to get elected, will then descend a rung and find themselves fighting for local council seats in those areas, pointing at dog turds for the local paper.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Sep 7, 2019)

Bye Chucky! Never thought I’d be sad to see you leave streatham. And I was right!

So he’s been moved to a constituency where labour had a chance of winning and will split the vote so the tories might take it?


----------



## TopCat (Sep 7, 2019)

Where is Chuka's millionaires house?


----------



## agricola (Sep 7, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Where is Chuka's millionaires house?



Currently it has shrank itself, ready to float down the Effra.  In a couple of weeks time it will emerge near Vauxhall Bridge and turn itself into a tree branch in order to cross the Thames.


----------



## elbows (Sep 25, 2019)

From the BBCs live parliament updates thingy:

Independent Group for Change MP Anna Soubry asks Mr Gove whether Operation Yellowhammer - the government's no-deal plan - still exists.

Mr Gove says that it does and that Yellowhammer represents a "reasonable worst-case scenario". He says that Operation Kingfisher - a Treasury plan - also still exists.

*He adds that Ms Soubry's suggestion of an Operation Dodo does not exist "though I can well understand why the Independent Group for Change would be interested in such an exercise".*


----------



## brogdale (Oct 29, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen, Sarah Wollaston


Just Soubry now...


----------



## brogdale (Dec 15, 2019)

Happier times...winning here...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 15, 2019)




----------



## magneze (Dec 15, 2019)

Are any of them still MPs?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 15, 2019)

magneze said:


> Are any of them still MPs?



No.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Dec 15, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I invoke the curse of Roy, Shirley, Bill and David: Split from Labour, pact with Liberals, join Liberals, get betrayed by Liberals, fade into ignominy, become a joke.



I'm rarely even half right about anything, so this makes a change.


----------



## Wolveryeti (Dec 15, 2019)

Will Chukkles now complete the grand slam and join the Tories now, I wonder?


----------



## brogdale (Dec 15, 2019)

Wolveryeti said:


> Will Chukkles now complete the grand slam and join the Tories now, I wonder?


Or Labour leadership bid.


----------



## moochedit (Dec 15, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Or Labour leadership bid.



He would first need to rejoin labour (if they let him) and then get back into parliament at a by election. Can't really see either of those happenning any time soon.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 15, 2019)

Wolveryeti said:


> Will Chukkles now complete the grand slam and join the Tories now, I wonder?



since he will probably get a peerage for services to the conservative party, maybe


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 15, 2019)

Chuka tripled the LibDem vote taking them from a poor third to a decent second, I don't think we've seen the last of him. There is a good possibility that they might
run him as their candidate in future byelections.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 15, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> Chuka tripled the LibDem vote taking them from a poor third to a decent second, I don't think we've seen the last of him. There is a good possibility that they might
> run him as their candidate in future byelections.



He did that on the back of remain voters, that one trick disappears next month.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 15, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> He did that on the back of remain voters, that one trick disappears next month.


Quite possibly but I suspect that he is trying to convince the rest of him that it was due to him, I think it likely they will take a chance on him again.
The LibDems are still paying the price for going into coalition with Cameron and look where it's got them, the Tories have just have their biggest success in 4 decades and they are on the verge of extinction. They have no hope of recovering any relevance in UK politics until all trace of anyone involved in the Coalition has gone. It hasn't gone yet and it probably won't have gone by 2024 either/


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 19, 2019)

Where now sleater et al? Where now?

Dear Member, 

As you know the Management Council convened today and we unanimously agreed to begin the process of closing down The Independent Group for Change. As you know more than anyone, we came together to form our party in response to the broken state of British politics. Last February, in order to do something about this, The Independent Group was formed.

...

Honesty and realism are at the core of our values, and we therefore must recognise that the political uncertainty of recent months has now given way to a settled pattern in Parliament for the next five years. So this is the right time for us to take stock. 

...

But I want to be very clear about what we did achieve. My former Labour colleagues shone a spotlight on the state of the Labour Party, exposing how it had moved to the hard left and was tolerating anti-semitism. I do not doubt Labour shifted its position to a confirmatory second referendum because of the courageous move made by Chris, Mike, Ann, Joan and others

...

But as I say, we need to be realistic and therefore we have agreed to start the process of winding up the party. We have ended your monthly subscription and are beginning the process of closing down our office and organisation. We will contact the Electoral Commission to de-register as a political party.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Where now sleater et al? Where now?
> 
> Dear Member,
> 
> ...


Job done.


----------



## chilango (Dec 19, 2019)

Forgive my ignorance but are TIG and ChUK separate parties now?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 19, 2019)

edit: misread question


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 19, 2019)

chilango said:


> Forgive my ignorance but are TIG and ChUK separate parties now?



Who knows, or cares?


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 19, 2019)

Remember when they courageously voted against a Customs Union and it lost by three votes?

Slow hand clap. Their defining, fucking useless, piece de resistance.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 19, 2019)

> *But I want to be very clear about what we did achieve.*



Fuck all. 



> My former Labour colleagues shone a spotlight on the state of the Labour Party, exposing how it had moved to the hard left and was tolerating anti-semitism. *I do not doubt Labour shifted its position to a confirmatory second referendum because of the courageous move made by Chris, Mike, Ann, Joan and others*



And, that went so bloody well, did't it?

Fucking bunch of muppets.


----------



## gosub (Dec 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Where now sleater et al? Where now?
> 
> Dear Member,
> 
> ...




Think I just a tree fall over somewhere in the Siberian tundra


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> But I want to be very clear about what we did achieve. My former Labour colleagues shone a spotlight on the state of the Labour Party, exposing how it had moved to the hard left and was tolerating anti-semitism. I do not doubt Labour shifted its position to a confirmatory second referendum because of the courageous move made by Chris, Mike, Ann, Joan and others



Seem to be taking credit for delivering a massive tory majority able to determine whatever shape of brexit it wants alongside enacting regressive unpopular policies to batter ordinary people and salt the earth of the ruins of any sort of social state, as well as reshaping of parliamentary constituencies to increase likelihood of further large majority tory govts in the future, great stuff, this is what success smells like. Liberal cunts.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 19, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> And, that went so bloody well, did't it?



from their perspective, yes.  a tory government got elected and jeremy corbyn is on his way out.

have any of them been given peerages for services to the conservative party yet?



cupid_stunt said:


> Fucking bunch of muppets.



unfair to muppets


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 19, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> unfair to muppets



Guilty as charged.  /


----------



## kenny g (Dec 19, 2019)

Look forwards to seeing Anna Soubry vomiting gently into her gin glass repeating the trajectory of the past two years to another piss stained skeleton of failed show business as they clutch together at fading memories of distant straws. "I was almost somebody who almost changed history once you know."


----------



## elbows (Dec 19, 2019)

The independent rift for the miffed is now Adrift UK.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 19, 2019)

Imagine being worse than the SDP.


----------



## gosub (Dec 20, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Fuck all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can't imagine anyone will be rushing to hire her as a barrister either.   Reality tv beckons


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

These people are incapable of learning political lessons. Just carry on regardless (up the khyber) 









						The Independent Group Wasn't A Failure – It Was About Putting Country Before Party
					

The objective of that day a year ago was to say publicly what many would only say in private, former executive director of The Independent Group Nicola Murphy writes.




					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk
				




Dickheads


----------



## oryx (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> These people are incapable of learning political lessons. Just carry on regardless (up the khyber)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's so bad it _almost _reads like a spoof...



> The seven MPs arrived – it had been eight (I was told he changed his mind because he didn’t want to upset his mum).





> I’d only stepped out for a sandwich but I returned to faces of “oh god”. A Daily Politics discussion had turned to racism and Angela had referred to people with a “funny tinge”.


----------



## Mr Moose (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> These people are incapable of learning political lessons. Just carry on regardless (up the khyber)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Christ on a fucking bike. What rubbish she writes.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 18, 2020)

That will teach her to nip out for a sandwich. We put the country first but the country didnt put us first, or actually second really.


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 18, 2020)

Where is Chukka these days it's like he fell off the edge of the world


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 18, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> Where is Chukka these days it's like he fell off the edge of the world



We can live in hope.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 16, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> Where is Chukka these days it's like he fell off the edge of the world


He's gone back to basics, looked deep into his soul and decided to rebuild himself afresh - starting from the ground floor he's set up his own humble little, one-man, craft-oriented... No wait, scratch that, he's accepted a place on the board of software company Advanced, is a _Forbes_ columnist, and has just landed a well-remunerated greenwashing executive position at notorious shit-shiners Edelman.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> He's gone back to basics, looked deep into his soul and decided to rebuild himself afresh - starting from the ground floor he's set up his own humble little, one-man, craft-oriented... No wait, scratch that, he's accepted a place on the board of software company Advanced, is a _Forbes_ columnist, and has just landed a well-remunerated greenwashing executive position at notorious shit-shiners Edelman.


cunt


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 16, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> He's gone back to basics, looked deep into his soul and decided to rebuild himself afresh - starting from the ground floor he's set up his own humble little, one-man, craft-oriented... No wait, scratch that, he's accepted a place on the board of software company Advanced, is a _Forbes_ columnist, and has just landed a well-remunerated greenwashing executive position at notorious shit-shiners Edelman.


I've never heard of them but their Wikipedia article paints them as iffy as he is, I suppose he will fit right in.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2020)

I’d forgotten that Change UK ever existed until this thread popped up again.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 16, 2020)

Badgers said:


> cunt


Couldn't have said it better myself


----------



## kebabking (Sep 16, 2020)

I think Luciana Berger has gone to work at the same place.

(Quite why I see her tweets is entirely beyond me...)


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

kabbes said:


> I’d forgotten that Change UK ever existed until this thread popped up again.


Hopefully their financial backers have forgotten too


----------



## Wilf (Sep 16, 2020)

kebabking said:


> I think Luciana Berger has gone to work at the same place.
> 
> (Quite why I see her tweets is entirely beyond me...)


I'd love to see the reaction of those labour right wingers and journos who lamented the loss of these scumbags. Well, actually, they'd just shrug their shoulders, they'd think taking money from Edelman is the natural progression from being booted out of the commons. A simple matter of entitlement. 

These people are filth at any time, but it somehow seems even worse amid Covid. Cunts.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 16, 2020)

kabbes said:


> I’d forgotten that Change UK ever existed until this thread popped up again.


There was a _one year on, whither_ article earlier on in 2020:









						A year on, did Change UK change anything?
					

The breakaway party of MPs who formed Change UK reveal why they failed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> There was a _one year on, whither_ article earlier on in 2020:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


FFS  



> Even at the time of the Nando’s summit, Soubry was adamant in her faith that she was joining a new party led by Umunna. She still believes that things might have been different if the former Streatham MP had taken on the responsibility as promised. “He had the chance on more than one occasion and he chose not to do it,” she says. She never had an explanation


----------



## Wilf (Sep 16, 2020)

As these fuckers went to the General Election count in 2019, there was a moment of absolute clarity, a fixed point with only 2 possible outcomes: '_tomorrow morning, I will wake up as either an MP or a PR and Lobbying Consultant_'.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> I've never heard of them but their Wikipedia article paints them as iffy as he is, I suppose he will fit right in.



Iffy?

*Working Families for Wal-Mart front group[edit]*
In the 2000s, Edelman created a front group called the Working Families for Wal-Mart, which said it was a grassroots organization, but was actually funded by Wal-Mart. It paid two bloggers to travel the country interviewing Wal-Mart employees, one of whom was a senior Edelman employee's sister. According to _The New Yorker_, "everyone she talked to was delighted with Wal-Mart". In 2006, _BusinessWeek_ reported that the public relations effort, which was positioned as a grassroots blog, was actually paid for by Wal-Mart. _The New Yorker_ called it a "blatant example of astroturfing".[35]

*E.ON Kingsnorth coal power station[edit]*
In 2008 Edelman's work with E.ON, which planned to build a coal power station at Kingsnorth attracted protests at Edelman's UK headquarters.[36] In 2009, to coincide with the weeklong "Climate Camp" range of protests, a group of naked protestors occupied Edelman's reception.[37]

*Keystone XL pipeline and climate change deniers[edit]*
Edelman was commissioned by TransCanada Corporation to run campaigns supporting the Keystone XL pipeline, a proposed pipeline to carry tar sands oil from Canada to refineries on the Gulf coast of Texas.[38] Edelman also developed a strategy for the proposed Energy East pipeline intended to carry tar sands oil through Québec, en route to a deep water harbor at Cacouna, Quebec for export abroad in supertankers and to refineries in New Brunswick. This resulted in a major controversy when documents leaked to Greenpeace revealed that Edelman had made some unethical proposals to sway public opinion in favor of its client. TransCanada distanced itself from those proposals as soon as the "dirty tricks" were published in the press.[39][40][41][42][43] In 2015, the firm announced that it would cease work for coal producers and climate change deniers.[44]

*News Corporation phone hacking scandal[edit]*
Edelman provided crisis communications to News Corporation during the phone hacking scandal.[45][46] Other clients have included Vidal Sassoon, Red Cross, Cantor Fitzgerald,[13] Royal Dutch Shell,[47] The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,[48] Starbucks,[45] and the government of Saudi Arabia.[49] It has used front groups to help the American Petroleum Institute reduce the perceived environmental damage caused by oil companies.[35]

*Russia and Yukos[edit]*
In June 2016, Edelman was hired by the International Centre for Legal Protection (ICLP), led by Andrey Kondakov, former director in the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The company was hired to "turn the tide of public opinion" and "help influence U.S. opinion on a massive court verdict involving the oil giant Yukos."[50]

*Equifax privacy breach crisis control[edit]*
Equifax hired Edelman for crisis control after the October 2017 privacy breach.[51][52]

*Geo Group private prison[edit]*
Edelman supported private prison company GEO Group and helped in "laundering the reputation of private US concentration camps" in July 2019.[53] In May 2019, executives from the Washington, DC office, including office president Lisa Ross and former Trump White House deputy press secretary, Lindsay Walters, went to Florida to present the pitch.[54] In June, when word spread across the company that the work was being pursued, debate sprang up on networking app Fishbowl. The work was resigned by Edelman in July 2019 and announced during an all-hands meeting in Washington. On Fishbowl, an employee commented that the executives "took the opportunity to basically shame us for ruining the work for the company because they couldn’t trust us not to leak it to the press."[54] Other employees on Fishbowl made similar comments.[54]

The company's official response was that "Edelman takes on complex and diverse clients ... and ultimately decided not to proceed with this work."[54] Edelman also refused to confirm they did similar work for another major private prison company, CoreCivic.[54]



Spiritual home for Blairites.


----------



## flypanam (Sep 16, 2020)

Wilf said:


> As these fuckers went to the General Election count in 2019, there was a moment of absolute clarity, a fixed point with only 2 possible outcomes: '_tomorrow morning, I will wake up as either an MP or a PR and Lobbying Consultant_'.


He's such a shit, it wouldn't surprise me if  he was Q...


----------



## Wilf (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Iffy?
> 
> *Working Families for Wal-Mart front group[edit]*
> In the 2000s, Edelman created a front group called the Working Families for Wal-Mart, which said it was a grassroots organization, but was actually funded by Wal-Mart. It paid two bloggers to travel the country interviewing Wal-Mart employees, one of whom was a senior Edelman employee's sister. According to _The New Yorker_, "everyone she talked to was delighted with Wal-Mart". In 2006, _BusinessWeek_ reported that the public relations effort, which was positioned as a grassroots blog, was actually paid for by Wal-Mart. _The New Yorker_ called it a "blatant example of astroturfing".[35]
> ...


'Want to put that old House of Commons pass to good use?'

'Capitalism isn't winning enough: _wanted, principled centreists to come and lie for it'

'Come and work for us, no need to eat at Nandos again'_


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 16, 2020)

kabbes said:


> I’d forgotten that Change UK ever existed until this thread popped up again.



TBF most people never noticed they existed in the first place.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 16, 2020)

Chukka thought he might have been the new Nick Clegg, leading a centrist party.

Now he hopes to be the new Sir Nick Clegg working for Facebook.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 16, 2020)

Sometimes it's not the bigger villain you hate the most, the Johnsons, the CEOs the heads of the IMF, it's the flies on shit.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 16, 2020)

Wilf said:


> Chukka thought he might have been the new Nick Clegg, leading a centrist party.



Tbf  even the leadership of the SWP have more ambition than tgat. Ok their ambition is s deranged but the new nick clegg FFS😡


----------



## tim (Sep 16, 2020)

Wilf said:


> Chukka thought he might have been the new Nick Clegg, leading a centrist party.
> 
> Now he hopes to be the new Sir Nick Clegg working for Facebook.



I'd rather he became the new Clegg by getting himself convicted for a pointless act of arson, preferably in the Royal Dockyards.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 16, 2020)

I can only name two of the cunts now. I can picture another but the name won't come.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 16, 2020)

When they romped down the road together.
Oh my


----------



## Dom Traynor (Sep 16, 2020)

Mike Gapes


----------



## agricola (Sep 16, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> There was a _one year on, whither_ article earlier on in 2020:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that last sentence from Shuker has aged well


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 17, 2020)

agricola said:


> that last sentence from Shuker has aged well


Innit just!

A definite case of this, but change the bottom.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 17, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Mike Gapes



I remember him for his porn name and the vitriol for which he lambasted Corbyn fir apologising for Iraq.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 17, 2020)

I know we are all a bit despondent these days, but this Twitter thread may raise your spirits 



(Clicken to embiggen - there are treats for all tastes)


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Nov 26, 2020)

Barbarian shithole Saudi Arabia is hiring Edelman to spin its new 'Megacity' development. This development requires the dispossession of 20,000 people, including members of a local Bedouin tribe. Chuka Ununna is an Executive Director at Edelman and Luciana Berger is a Managing Director. Remember kids, mature centrist politics involves representing a regime that dismembers dissidents, chops peoples heads off, treats women as subhuman and is committing genocide in Yemen! Really sensible stuff. 









						Saudi Arabia Hires Edelman To Handle Global PR For Megacity
					

Saudi Arabia has struck a three-month deal with Edelman under which the agency will provide US and international PR support.




					www.provokemedia.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2020)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Barbarian shithole Saudi Arabia is hiring Edelman to spin its new 'Megacity' development. This development requires the dispossession of 20,000 people, including members of a local Bedouin tribe. Chuka Ununna is an Executive Director at Edelman and Luciana Berger is a Managing Director. Remember kids, mature centrist politics involves representing a regime that dismembers dissidents, chops peoples heads off, treats women as subhuman and is committing genocide in Yemen! Really sensible stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


perhaps they made umunna an offer he couldn't refuse - one he'd have had to be off his head to refuse


----------



## killer b (Nov 26, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> I know we are all a bit despondent these days, but this Twitter thread may raise your spirits
> 
> 
> 
> (Clicken to embiggen - there are treats for all tastes)



this classic is a fine rebuke to those who think insane conspiracy theories are unique to the right


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 26, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps they made umunna an offer he couldn't refuse - one he'd have had to be off his head to refuse



Jamal Khashoggi sliced right down the middle.


----------



## NoXion (Nov 26, 2020)

killer b said:


> this classic is a fine rebuke to those who think insane conspiracy theories are unique to the right
> 
> View attachment 240504


But libs _are_ right wing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Jamal Khashoggi sliced right down the middle.


that was damien hirst's plan anyway


----------



## Flavour (Feb 10, 2021)

He's joined JPMorgan.









						Former Labour MP Chuka Umunna joins JP Morgan
					

Umunna, who left politics in 2019, will take up the newly created role of head of ESG in Europe, the Middle East, and Africa at JP Morgan.




					finance.yahoo.com
				




Change indeed!


----------



## Argonia (Feb 10, 2021)

What a fucking surprise.


----------



## agricola (Feb 10, 2021)

Flavour said:


> He's joined JPMorgan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do people even check what other people tell them on their CV any more?



> *He has more than 20 years of private and public sector experience in managing ESG issues at a senior level* and was recently named one of the top five ESG influencers in the UK



Chuka Umunna is 42, and his first job after university started (according to Wikipedia) in 2005.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 10, 2021)

Maybe he was involved with this lot?


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 10, 2021)

Finally found somewhere that suits his 'politics'...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 10, 2021)

He probably thinks waiting this long before getting himself latched on to the finance sector teat makes him classy or something. 

Love the corporate whitewash job title as well.


----------



## agricola (Feb 10, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> He probably thinks waiting this long before getting himself latched on to the finance sector teat makes him classy or something.
> 
> Love the corporate whitewash job title as well.



TBF he left his previous employer for a better deal after only being with them nine months, which probably qualifies as being prime ministerial nowadays.


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 10, 2021)

Second hand politicians rarly end up wondering how their going to support themselves when their career is over. It is probably a little bit easier for Tories than Labour but not much, there is enough in the trough for everyone.


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 10, 2021)

If his golden track record is anything to go by, I look forward to JP Morgan announcing that it's gone out of business in about June.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 10, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> If his golden track record is anything to go by, I look forward to JP Morgan announcing that it's gone out of business in about June.


More likely demerger into J, P and Morgan


----------



## nogojones (Feb 10, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Second hand politicians rarly end up wondering how their going to support themselves when their career is over. It is probably a little bit easier for Tories than Labour but not much, there is enough in the trough for everyone.


It depends on what their positions were. I can't see HSBC running after Corbyn. He might get a gig advertising organic muesli, but I don't expect lofty hights in the finance sector


----------



## tim (Feb 10, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Second hand politicians rarly end up wondering how their going to support themselves when their career is over. It is probably a little bit easier for Tories than Labour but not much, there is enough in the trough for everyone.



Easier for Chuka than most Tories as he's from a posher background than most of the parvenu shits on the current government benches. His grandfather Sir Helenus "Buster" Milmo was in  M.I.6, served as a Nurenburg prosecutor and ended up as a  High Court Judge. At one point he investigated Kim Philby but was considered too much of a gentleman to be able to break him.  A keen fox-hunter, he called hunt saboteurs disorderly rabble and compared them to apes and baboons.


----------



## killer b (Feb 10, 2021)

nogojones said:


> It depends on what their positions were. I can't see HSBC running after Corbyn. He might get a gig advertising organic muesli, but I don't expect lofty hights in the finance sector


Labour politicians who cant get jobs in the corporate world can usually find safe harbour in unions or NGOs


----------



## ska invita (Feb 10, 2021)

nogojones said:


> I can't see HSBC running after Corbyn. He might get a gig advertising organic muesli, but I don't expect lofty hights in the finance sector


he's still got his job


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 10, 2021)

tim said:


> Easier for Chuka than most Tories as he's from a posher background than most of the parvenu shits on the current government benches. His grandfather Sir Helenus "Buster" Milmo was in  M.I.6, served as a Nurenburg prosecutor and ended up as a  High Court Judge. At one point he investigated Kim Philby but was considered too much of a gentleman to be able to break him.  A keen fox-hunter, he called hunt saboteurs disorderly rabble and compared them to apes and baboons.


You don't say, and there was me thinking his Man of the People routine was totally genuine


----------



## kabbes (Feb 10, 2021)

Which of the topics of Environmental Risks, Social policies or corporate governance is Chukka claiming to be an expert in, exactly?  What in his career as a failed politician is supposedly giving him this experience?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 10, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Which of the topics of Environmental Risks, Social policies or corporate governance is Chukka claiming to be an expert in, exactly?  What in his career as a failed politician is supposedly giving him this experience?



The access to other, equally inept but still serving politicians who are able to shape policy in JP Morgan's favour, those ESG topics.


----------



## kabbes (Feb 10, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The access to other, equally inept but still serving politicians who are able to shape policy in JP Morgan's favour, those ESG topics.


I’m as cynical as the next man but the reason that investors are interested in ESG policies is simply because companies with strong ESG tend to do better in the long run.  It’s not about some kind of legal requirement, it’s just a useful tool for sifting good  prospects from bad. What would be the point in whitewashing that if you are the fund manager doing the investing?  You want somebody that knows good ESG when they see it, not somebody who knows people that will fake the metrics for you.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 10, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I’m as cynical as the next man but the reason that investors are interested in ESG policies is simply because companies with strong ESG tend to do better in the long run.  It’s not about some kind of legal requirement, it’s just a useful tool for sifting good  prospects from bad. What would be the point in whitewashing that if you are the fund manager doing the investing?  You want somebody that knows good ESG when they see it, not somebody who knows people that will fake the metrics for you.



I'm guessing in his case ESG is just a convenient title, JP will not be expecting ole Chucks to roll up at 9 each morning and put in a solid 8 hours ESG-ing, it'll be a non-meeting once a month and a large slab of dough to buy access to Westminster. I believe that in Johnny Forrin's lands it is called corruption.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 10, 2021)

A link from Chukie's article: Former UK Chancellor George Osborne to become full-time banker

What possible advice could he give? How to bankrupt a newspaper? How to live off mummy and daddy's cash? A direct line to The Treasury?


----------



## kebabking (Feb 10, 2021)

ska invita said:


> he's still got his job



No, a _real _job - not some bizarre hobby reading endless letters in green ink from mad people and meeting groups of terribly earnest people with BO and sandals.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 10, 2021)

kebabking said:


> reading endless letters in green ink from mad people and meeting groups of terribly earnest people with BO and sandals.


I don't know, that sounds not unadjacent to an average day at work for me, and I'm not in politics.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 10, 2021)

kebabking said:


> No, a _real _job - not some bizarre hobby reading endless letters in green ink from mad people and meeting groups of terribly earnest people with BO and sandals.


Name a better constituency MP


----------



## kebabking (Feb 10, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Name a better constituency MP



Who cares?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 10, 2021)

kebabking said:


> Who cares?


the people of islington north for whom he tirelessly works
who do you work for the good of?


----------



## kebabking (Feb 10, 2021)

ska invita said:


> the people of islington north for whom he tirelessly works
> who do you work for the good of?



I recall that Ian Paisley was supposed to be an excellent constituency MP...

I don't work _tirelessly _for anyone, Laura.


----------



## GarveyLives (Feb 10, 2021)

There is some background to this turn of events here:

October 2020:  *Chuka Umunna* exclusive: Why getting ESG right matters for everyone

December 2020: *Chuka Umunna* on how he can make a bigger difference in the City than in politics


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 10, 2021)

GarveyLives said:


> There is some background to this turn of events here:
> 
> October 2020:  *Chuka Umunna* exclusive: Why getting ESG right matters for everyone
> 
> December 2020: *Chuka Umunna* on how he can make a bigger difference in the City than in politics


TBF to the man making more of a difference in the City than he did in Politics is a very low bar indeed.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 10, 2021)

Only for himself anyway, i suspect.


----------



## Hyperdark (Feb 11, 2021)

*'I knew soon after I joined the House of Commons I was never going to be a lifer,' says Umunna*

This self obsessed scrote gives a new meaning to the word _opportunis_t


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 11, 2021)

He might not be with JP Morgan long if he hears the siren call from over the ocean:









						Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump party
					

Breakaway group would run on ‘principled conservatism’ platform, say those involved in discussions




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Wilf (Feb 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The access to other, equally inept but still serving politicians who are able to shape policy in JP Morgan's favour, those ESG topics.


'_I mean, who would fail to take a call from Nick Clegg..._'


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 26, 2021)

That ChangeUK came and went like a cheap firework still makes me shake my head in disbelief. Not that I supported them, just the insane narrative of it all, from the clumsy launch through "unfortunate" language to the slow collapse like a soufflé in a cupboard: it's not a Netflix documentary in the making, it's perhaps a one-off BBC Four drama with passable lookalike actors. 

I do wonder about the sliding doors moment in UK political history, mind. There are clearly strains within the PLP after December 2019 which appear to be pushing against each other at the same level of intensity as they were when CUK launched. The disaster of them really must have stopped MPs from wanting to jump ship or split or defect, so what to do? The distance between the SDP defecting from the Labour Party of Michael Foot and ChUK from the Labour Party of Jeremy Corbyn was nigh-on 40 years. It might, possibly, be less than that next time...but there's no guarantee of there being a next time.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 26, 2021)

Tinge UK were libdems 
Starmerites are libdems 
Some Tories are libdems
Plus there's the real libdems

If only they'd all join their correct party. 
Without proportional representation they never will


----------



## brogdale (Feb 26, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Tinge UK were libdems
> Starmerites are libdems
> Some Tories are libdems
> Plus there's the real libdems
> ...


& the yellow streak of piss are themselves tories, so in a Commons of 650, what are there...30 opposition MPs?


----------



## Argonia (Feb 26, 2021)

Change UK still make me laugh


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 26, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Tinge UK were libdems
> Starmerites are libdems
> Some Tories are libdems
> Plus there's the real libdems
> ...



That's the thing, too. The ghost of the SDP/Liberal Alliance gaining 25% of the vote and almost no seats must be in the minds. FPTP across 650 constituencies does not reflect how people actually vote. PR does, broadly speaking. But the Commons is more likely to vote for replacing the door-knobs in Portcullis House than they would ever introduce voting reform. 

As long as FPTP is used, and as long as ChUK's year of Mr Bean-like farce rings loudly in the memory, there will be no defections.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 26, 2021)

brogdale said:


> & the yellow streak of piss are themselves tories, so in a Commons of 650, what are there...30 opposition MPs?


Tories are now UKIP


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Change UK still make me laugh


It was hilarious. I really enjoyed the whole thing. The ending was fab too.  Someone else should do another one like it. I could do with a laugh.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 26, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> It was hilarious. I really enjoyed the whole thing. The ending was fab too.  Someone else should do another one like it. I could do with a laugh.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 26, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> It was hilarious. I really enjoyed the whole thing. The ending was fab too.  Someone else should do another one like it. I could do with a laugh.



It's never the same when it's little micro-parties and grouplets on the fringes. It has to be high profile. We've been spoiled, maybe, because anything less than long-standing MPs falling onto their faces in public won't impress.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 26, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> It's never the same when it's little micro-parties and grouplets on the fringes. It has to be high profile. We've been spoiled, maybe, because anything less than long-standing MPs falling onto their faces in public won't impress.


True. But there’s not exactly a short supply of monster egos in Westminster who think they’ve got the clout just from sheer force of personality to break the mould of politics.  There’s probably someone in one of the main parties right now having their engorged ego stroked by fawning admirers.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 26, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> True. But there’s not exactly a short supply of monster egos in Westminster who think they’ve got the clout just from sheer force of personality to break the mould of politics.  There’s probably someone in one of the main parties right now having their engorged ego stroked by fawning admirers.


"You too could be the next Mike Gapes!"


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 12, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> "You too could be the next Mike Gapes!"


Speaking of which, I can't believe I'm the first person to discuss this massive news story: 









						Story of the Independent Group is far from over
					

Two years ago, eight Labour and three Conservative MPs resigned from their parties in a brave, ultimately unsuccessful attempt to stop extremism and reshape British politics. Five have now set the record straight in Change — The Independent Group, edited by Peter McNab. It is a frank account by five




					www.thetimes.co.uk
				




Times article is paywalled, here's a bit of non-paywalled churn from the Indy:








						Change UK are releasing a book about their ‘journey’
					

Remember the Independent Group for Change?Who?Change UK?…The politicians that went to Nando’s.Oh yes.The politicians that went to Nando’s are releasing a book, they have revealed.Writing in The Times, Mike Gapes, who defected from the Labour Party to join Change UK and promptly lost his seat in...




					www.indy100.com
				





> Writing in _The Times, _Mike Gapes, who defected from the Labour Party to join Change UK and promptly lost his seat in the 2019 general election, said the book is entitled “Change - The Independent Group”, showing that there were indeed combinations of the words ‘change’, ‘group’ and ‘independent’ that were yet to be explored by the politicians.
> 
> He said the book is “a frank account” of “the dramatic events of February 2019”. (Dramatic events being the launch of Change UK).
> 
> ...


----------



## NoXion (Apr 12, 2021)

They're still freaking the fuck out over Corbyn. Calling him an "extremist", Jesus fucking Christ. If Corbyn puts the shits up them, then just imagine what their reaction would have been to someone more ruthless.


----------



## oryx (Apr 12, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Speaking of which, I can't believe I'm the first person to discuss this massive news story:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From The Times article: 



> There are insights into the difficult dilemma faced by mainstream politicians in our tribal party system when the party to which you have dedicated your life has been captured by extremists.


----------



## killer b (Apr 12, 2021)

Incredible that anyone thinks there's a book to be written about TiG that isn't a satire tbh. I look forward to seeing it available in all the remaindered book shops.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2021)

Is this an actual published by a publisher type of book or something someone could in theory, if for some bizarre reason they wanted to, order off the internet, like the collected works of Jonathan Bishop or something?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 12, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Is this an actual published by a publisher type of book or something someone could in theory, if for some bizarre reason they wanted to, order off the internet, like the collected works of Jonathan Bishop or something?


I dunno, it's a real mystery 












						Change: The Independent Group: Amazon.co.uk: McNab, Peter: 9781839754654: Books
					

Buy Change: The Independent Group by McNab, Peter (ISBN: 9781839754654) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.



					www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## strung out (Apr 12, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Is this an actual published by a publisher type of book or something someone could in theory, if for some bizarre reason they wanted to, order off the internet, like the collected works of Jonathan Bishop or something?


It's being self published through this company: Grosvenor House Publishing


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 12, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I dunno, it's a real mystery
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> None of them regrets their actions, and they would do the same again.


Why does this sentence make it sound so much like it should be a book about former IRA fighters or something? I am also enjoying imagining the idea of "Change: The Independent Group - Edited and compiled by Andy McNab".


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 12, 2021)

CHAPTER 7: SLOTTING JEZZA


----------



## killer b (Apr 12, 2021)

Wow its a print on demand services - presumably they just print and bind each new copy as it's ordered from amazon?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 12, 2021)

They have some great looking books on their list 



			https://twitter.com/ghpbooks


----------



## belboid (Apr 12, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> They have some great looking books on their list
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ghpbooks


I’m ordering _The Aliens Who Loved Lemon Curd_ right now


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 12, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Why does this sentence make it sound so much like it should be a book about former IRA fighters or something? I am also enjoying imagining the idea of "Change: The Independent Group - Edited and compiled by Andy McNab".


charlies to zeroes: the story of the independent group by andy mcnab, would have been a better title


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 12, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> They have some great looking books on their list
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ghpbooks


They could've just re-used this cover for the Change TIG UK book:


----------



## two sheds (Apr 12, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> charlies to zeroes: the story of the independent group by andy mcnab, would have been a better title



Seagoon "My name is Neddie Seagoon"
Grytpype-Thynne "I know, but for some reason I always think of you as Charlie".



> Grytpype-Thynne often used the word "Charlie", Cockney rhyming slang for "cunt" (which might be derived from Charlie Hunt), instead of "person" or "fellow", a trait that was also made fun of several times during the show.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 12, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> They could've just re-used this cover for the Change TIG UK book:
> View attachment 263006


Ashes to ashes, funk to funkers: the disappearance of the independent group down the toilet of history


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 12, 2021)

Love that Gapes has pinned a tweet suggesting that you'll be able to find the book on the shelves at Waterstones


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 12, 2021)

If no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire Grosvenor House Publishing



> In February 2019, five crack Parliamentarians - ‘Milky’ Coffey, Anna Sorribilis, John Leslie, Chris Ryan, and Mike Hunt-Gapes - were sent to Nando's for a photo op they didn't fully think through. This book based on hours of interviews charts the process by which each of them came to make such a momentous and life-changing decision. None of them regrets their actions, and they would do the same again. “The actions of the five Members of Parliament are a challenge to a party system which instead of protecting against extremism, can become the vehicle for it”- Andy McNab


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 13, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I dunno, it's a real mystery
> 
> View attachment 263001
> 
> ...


Who’s the comic actor in the pic? Can’t quite place him


----------



## belboid (Apr 13, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Who’s the comic actor in the pic? Can’t quite place him


I don't know, but did enjoy the fact that my google image search searched under 'waste container'


----------



## splonkydoo (Apr 13, 2021)

It has these kind of vibes for me..


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 13, 2021)

belboid said:


> I don't know, but did enjoy the fact that my google image search searched under 'waste container'


I tried that too!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 13, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Who’s the comic actor in the pic? Can’t quite place him


Clem Fandango's mate


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 13, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Clem Fandango's mate


Of course!


----------



## discokermit (Apr 13, 2021)

the chuktigs won. look at labour.


----------



## TopCat (Apr 13, 2021)

How come no chuka on the front of the book?


----------



## mauvais (Apr 13, 2021)

"Regrets, I've had a few", sang Paul Anka, but I only have one: that I never made it in life as a marketing consultant to the stars. Civilisation has its monuments like the pyramids of Giza or the Eiffel Tower or Basingstoke but in time they will all crumble to dust, and all that survives will be stories of what they were. Yet none would be such a beacon of hope to the world as the tale of how I rebranded this lot to _Changdependence_.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 13, 2021)

TopCat said:


> How come no chuka on the front of the book?


He had already ditched the Tiggers to be an independent when pic was taken?


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 13, 2021)

I suppose it being print on demand means that at least they won't get this:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 13, 2021)

mauvais said:


> "Regrets, I've had a few", sang Paul Anka, but I only have one: that I never made it in life as a marketing consultant to the stars. Civilisation has its monuments like the pyramids of Giza or the Eiffel Tower or Basingstoke but in time they will all crumble to dust, and all that survives will be stories of what they were. Yet none would be such a beacon of hope to the world as the tale of how I rebranded this lot to _Changdependence_.


ALLEGEDLY


----------



## Argonia (Apr 13, 2021)

That book about them is sure to become a massive bestseller. Might sell six or seven copies or something.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 13, 2021)

Argonia said:


> That book about them is sure to become a massive bestseller. Might sell six or seven copies or something.


I'll put the guys in the press hall on alert


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 13, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> They have some great looking books on their list
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/ghpbooks


At least we know where the giant rabbit went.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 13, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Love that Gapes has pinned a tweet suggesting that you'll be able to find the book on the shelves at Waterstones



the only change that really counts is the type that comes in coins
--chuka umunna


----------



## JTG (Apr 13, 2021)

A quick look at what these deeply principled individuals are doing now:

Luciana Berger - head of public affairs at Edelman UK. Edelman's portfolio includes running astroturfing groups for Walmart & the Keystone pipeline; providing crisis comms to News International during the phone hacking scandal; the American Petroleum Institute; the government of Saudi Arabia and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Chris Leslie - chief executive of the Credit Services Association, the trade association for debt collectors & bailiffs
Angela Smith - having spent her parliamentary career shilling for the water industry, she is now a non-executive director of Portsmouth Water
Chuka Umunna - after some time at Edelman UK, he is now working for JP Morgan Chase

Ian Murray is still hiding in the PLP and pretending he was never interested


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 13, 2021)

Who was the gambling industry prick? Was that one of these pricks or someone else?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 13, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Who was the gambling industry prick? Was that one of these pricks or someone else?


Someone else. Tom Watson to be precise.


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 13, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> Someone else. Tom Watson to be precise.


Ah yes, "someone whose name I try and fail to remember when Change UK gets discussed" sounds about right for Tom Watson.


----------



## JTG (Apr 13, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Who was the gambling industry prick? Was that one of these pricks or someone else?


Michael Dugher and/or Tom Watson. Both happily shilling away for bookies now


----------



## Funky_monks (Apr 13, 2021)

belboid said:


> I’m ordering _The Aliens Who Loved Lemon Curd_ right now


Now that one, I'd actually read.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 9, 2021)

Oh really? Consultancy not paying enough then?


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 9, 2021)

Presumably he needs someone to tell him


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jul 9, 2021)

That pic misses off the final line:

"In the audience, asking for a friend"


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 9, 2021)

teqniq said:


> Oh really? Consultancy not paying enough then?




The real-life publication of Ben Swain's _It's The Everything, Stupid : How to Get Ahead in Modern Politics

_


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 9, 2021)

teqniq said:


> Oh really? Consultancy not paying enough then?



With Sue Cooke.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2021)

teqniq said:


> Oh really? Consultancy not paying enough then?



Those who can, do

Those who can't, teach


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 9, 2021)

Still the only ones addressing the real social inequalities in Britain - like, for instance, former government ministers being blacklisted from six figure salary sinecures:









						Government critics blocked from senior public roles, ex-Tory minister claims
					

Anna Soubry claims she was overlooked for high-profile jobs because of her opposition to Brexit and criticism of Boris Johnson




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## 8ball (Nov 9, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Those who can, do
> 
> Those who can't, teach



Those who can't teach, teach PE.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 10, 2021)

8ball said:


> Those who can't teach, teach PE.


Public Enemy is a subject worth teaching, tbf


----------



## philosophical (Nov 10, 2021)

That can or can’t do, and therefore teach is a load of bollocks, but an enduring load of bollocks.
I am talking teaching under 18’s, not at for example University level where many lecturers I have met hate their ‘dickhead’ students (ripped off paying 9+k for fuck all contact hours). My son and daughter in law lecture at a London and a Midlands University, and despite getting well paid resent any needy student getting in the way of their personal research or drive towards career furtherance.
Teaching in ordinary schools (leaving aside the philosophical debate regarding why) is one of the toughest gigs anybody can do.
Some adults can hardly deal with their one offspring, yet teachers have to deal with 30+ of the buggers.
Those who can do can get on with it, those who can teach it are fucking geniuses.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 10, 2021)

philosophical said:


> That can or can’t do, and therefore teach is a load of bollocks, but an enduring load of bollocks.
> I am talking teaching under 18’s, not at for example University level where many lecturers I have met hate their ‘dickhead’ students (ripped off paying 9+k for fuck all contact hours). My son and daughter in law lecture at a London and a Midlands University, and despite getting well paid resent any needy student getting in the way of their personal research or drive towards career furtherance.
> Teaching in ordinary schools (leaving aside the philosophical debate regarding why) is one of the toughest gigs anybody can do.
> Some adults can hardly deal with their one offspring, yet teachers have to deal with 30+ of the buggers.
> Those who can do can get on with it, those who can teach it are fucking geniuses.


Not really just 30+ "of the buggers"; in secondary phase the possibility up to about 250 different individual pupils in any one day.
Massively over-loading their natural 'herd-size' capacity for social interaction...one reason for the lower life-span, poor mental health and dependancy problems prevalent.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 10, 2021)

JTG said:


> Chris Leslie - chief executive of the Credit Services Association



Missed this one. I mean I knew Leslie was a twat but this is something else.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 10, 2021)

philosophical said:


> Teaching in ordinary schools (leaving aside the philosophical debate regarding why) is one of the toughest gigs anybody can do.



Agree with this. I've never taught young uns, only adults and even then only in relatively informal settings. But I've worked extensively with teachers in various contexts and there's no group of people whose resourcefulness and resilience in the face of an incredibly demanding job is greater.

Edit: Now, that is. When I was at school a good proportion of them were chancers, perverts and lunatics who should never have been allowed within quarter of a mile of a school.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2022)

No surprises, but Warrick (complete) Hunt...


----------



## hitmouse (Dec 27, 2022)

Seeing the Change UK thread bumped in December 2022 feels like finding an ancient fossil. Do they even teach kids about The Fateful Nando's in school these days?


----------



## TopCat (Dec 27, 2022)

Look at your hands


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Seeing the Change UK thread bumped in December 2022 feels like finding an ancient fossil. Do they even teach kids about The Fateful Nando's in school these days?


I still find this amusing, though...


----------



## TopCat (Dec 27, 2022)

What was that mans name top right, looks like Prince Andrews sideman?


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2022)

TopCat said:


> What was that mans name top right, looks like Prince Andrews sideman?


Gapes


----------



## TopCat (Dec 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Gapes


Like all stretched arseholes?


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Like all stretched arseholes?


I now feel like I was just being teed up there!


----------



## TopCat (Dec 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I now feel like I was just being teed up there!


I thought you were being kind to me as it's Christmas and went along


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I still find this amusing, though...
> 
> View attachment 357434



The ex (from many years ago) of a mate is in that pic


----------



## TopCat (Dec 27, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> The ex (from many years ago) of a mate is in that pic


I am having pissed fun speculating which. Tell on them without telling.


----------



## hitmouse (Dec 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Gapes


Who could forget his immortal speech?


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 27, 2022)

TopCat said:


> I am having pissed fun speculating which. Tell on them without telling.



Ah so kind of like guess who?

The individual in question was privately educated and a career politician. Probably won’t rule out many of them


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 27, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> The ex (from many years ago) of a mate is in that pic


A claim to shame


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Who could forget his immortal speech?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

Heidi Allen


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 27, 2022)

Not a Tory, although I had to google that as I always thought they were.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Not a Tory, although I had to google that as I always thought they were.


Ah, Berger. Punching above your weight!


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 27, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Ah, Berger. Punching above your weight!


Correct, but not my weight in this case


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Dec 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I still find this amusing, though...
> 
> View attachment 357434



Definitely one for the Tory wankface thread


----------



## tommers (Dec 27, 2022)

Are this lot not all back now the Labour Party is free of the stain of Mild Social Democracy?

Probably lined up for safe seats next time i guess.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 27, 2022)

tommers said:


> Are this lot not all back now the Labour Party is free of the stain of Mild Social Democracy?
> 
> Probably lined up for safe seats next time i guess.


They joined the Lib Dems, and oblivion.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 27, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> They joined the Lib Dems, and oblivion.



go back to your constituencies and prepare for complete irrelevance...


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 27, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Who could forget his immortal speech?



Very good. I'd forgotten that Brexit would mean the end of Baileys


----------

