# A Clockwork Orange



## longdog (Jan 20, 2010)

I've eventually got round to watching A Clockwork Orange and after much careful deliberation I'm wondering if I can sue Kubrick's estate for the two hours* of my life I wasted on this pitiful pile of festering cat bollocks.

How the fuck is it supposed to be a cinematic masterpiece? 

For fuck sake, I've seen better Michael Winner films than that. 

*when I say two hours I really mean the 45 minutes it took for me to start to lose the will to live.


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## editor (Jan 20, 2010)

It's a great film.


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## xes (Jan 20, 2010)

It's an odd film, I'm not sure of it's great, or tosh. But I enjoyed it to a degree. *stays on the fence*


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

I liked it. Not his best film by any means, and in no way subtle, but enjoyable and stylish, as Kubrick always was imo.


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 20, 2010)

Calm down dear.


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## little_legs (Jan 20, 2010)

Never seen this movie, the book on the other hand is really good imho.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

When has it ever been described as a 'cinematic masterpiece'?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> Calm down dear.




It's only a film.

And it isn't in the same league as, say, Salo. Now there's a couple of hours I did not enjoy.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

It's brave, it's of it's time, it's not an easy watch, it's stylish, it's violent, it's crass, blunt, pretentious....it's not a masterpiece by a long shot.

O' lucky Man is better....but equally flawed.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> O' lucky Man is better....but equally flawed.


That was Lindsay Anderson.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That was Lindsay Anderson.



I know.

They both had McDowell, both out a similar times, both satires.


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## longdog (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's only a film.
> 
> And it isn't in the same league as, say, Salo.



It's not in the same league as Home Alone.


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## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2010)

I didn't like it. I didn't like the book either. At least i didn't have to get a ferry to watch it. It's just not very good.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I know.
> 
> They both had McDowell, both out a similar times, both satires.


Yeah, after I posted that, I guessed you knew. O Lucky Man is what I would call a glorious mess. I don't think Clockwork Orange is a mess, just not subtle and probably not as cutting as it was intended to be.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

longdog said:


> I've eventually got round to watching A Clockwork Orange and after much careful deliberation I'm wondering if I can sue Kubrick's estate for the two hours* of my life I wasted on this pitiful pile of festering cat bollocks.
> 
> How the fuck is it supposed to be a cinematic masterpiece?
> 
> ...



From what I can gather, he was dead-on in most of his predictions of britain's future.


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## Clair De Lune (Jan 20, 2010)

It's nearly 50 years old, give it a break


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> When has it ever been described as a 'cinematic masterpiece'?



http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=clockwork+orange+"cinematic+masterpiece"&meta=&aq=f&oq=


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, after I posted that, I guessed you knew. O Lucky Man is what I would call a glorious mess. I don't think Clockwork Orange is a mess, just not subtle and probably not as cutting as it was intended to be.



Even in the mess I think O lucky Man says more, and takes more chances.

I saw McDowell do his spoken word event recounting his life working with Anderson. It was very good.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=clockwork+orange+"cinematic+masterpiece"&meta=&aq=f&oq=



IMDB and fan sites!?!


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 20, 2010)

Not a huge fan of it myself either as it goes.


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## Reno (Jan 20, 2010)

This is a Kubrick film I never got on with myself and I generally love his work. I don't think it's shit, but it's of his time in a way that hasn't dated too well. For a Kubrick film it also looks rather cheap.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Even in the mess I think O lucky Man says more, and takes more chances.


Oh I agree. I love that film. It really _is_ a mess, though. I've seen it two or three times, and I'd be hard pushed to tell you much about the plot. I've seen CO a couple of times too and I could tell you the plot quite accurately – but I do agree, it isn't a brave film in the way O Lucky Man is.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> IMDB and fan sites!?!



You said it never happened...


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## Maggot (Jan 20, 2010)

Clair De Lune said:


> It's nearly 50 years old, give it a break


I think you mean 40 years old.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Even in the mess I think O lucky Man says more, and takes more chances.
> 
> I saw McDowell do his spoken word event recounting his life working with Anderson. It was very good.



Fuck it, I'll say it: Clockwork Orange is a cinematic masterpiece.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> You said it never happened...



No I didn't.

I asked: When has it ever been described as a 'cinematic masterpiece'?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Fuck it, I'll say it: Clockwork Orange is a cinematic masterpiece.


Good man.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh I agree. I love that film. It really _is_ a mess, though. I've seen it two or three times, and I'd be hard pushed to tell you much about the plot. I've seen CO a couple of times too and I could tell you the plot quite accurately – but I do agree, it isn't a brave film in the way O Lucky Man is.



It's about that guy with the penis nose who's like chav scum or something, but he wants to change his ways, but his past comes back to haunt him.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

Maggot said:


> I think you mean 40 years old.


The book's nearly 50. 

And the film is the same age as me. It is most certainly _not_ 40 yet.


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## mentalchik (Jan 20, 2010)

Can't say i'd want to watch it again..........tried to read the book once but gave up.........


still it isn't as shite as Eyes Wide Shut.........never been in a cinema where so many people got up and walked out before !


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## yardbird (Jan 20, 2010)

I saw it when it came out.
At that time it was stunning and I still think it's a stand out film.
Oh Lucky Man was massively cut after I saw it, and that will be the version that you've seen.

Movies of their time, as was If and the original Solaris,
And Claude Chabrol's Que  La Bete Meure  (This Man Must Die or Killer)

All outstanding Films at the time.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> No I didn't.
> 
> I asked: When has it ever been described as a 'cinematic masterpiece'?



I thought that was a rhetorical question, that I addressed as if it were a literal question, in order to show that the point made by the rhetorical question, was incorrect...


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Fuck it, I'll say it: Clockwork Orange is a cinematic masterpiece.



Woooo.....spread the news.....renowned forum flouncer and backtracker makes *bold * statement of intent.

Millions breath a sigh if disbelief


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## mentalchik (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And the film is the same age as me. It is most certainly _not_ 40 yet.



but not far off..........


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

mentalchik said:


> still it isn't as shite as Eyes Wide Shut.........never been in a cinema where so many people got up and walked out before !


I didn't like Eyes Wide Shut first time (at the cinema), probably due to the weight of expectation. But I liked it the second time (on video). The biggest problem with it for me is that it's based on a novella that's 100 years old, and the book's late-Empire Austro-Hungarian sensibility doesn't translate well to modern times. Once I'd accepted that limitation, I enjoyed it more.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

yardbird said:


> Oh Lucky Man was massively cut after I saw it, and that will be the version that you've seen.



I've seen a full version....about 3hrs+

Still a mess....but it has a very young and buxom Helen Mirren.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Woooo.....spread the news.....renowned forum flouncer and backtracker makes *bold * statement if intent.
> 
> Millions breath a sigh if disbelief



I didn't flounce from a forum. I flounced from the boards in their entirety.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

yardbird said:


> Oh Lucky Man was massively cut after I saw it, and that will be the version that you've seen.


Oh no. Not by Anderson, presumably. 

Is that why it makes so little sense?

ETA: the version I've seen was over 3 hours long too. 

Did Britannia Hospital get massively cut too?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

As for being a backtracker, well, Nanker ........









I'll keep working my way back to you, babe 

With a burning love inside 

Hey, I'm workin' my way back to you, babe 

And the happiness that died 



I let it get away 

Do, do, do, do, do 

(Been paying every day) 

Do, do, do, do, do 



When you were so in love with me 

I played around like I was free 

Thought I could have my cake and eat it too 

But how I cried over losing you 



See, I'm down and out 

But I ain't about to go living my life without you 

Hey, every day I made you cry 

I'll pay and, girl, till the day I die 



I'll keep workin' my way back to you, babe 

With a burnin' love inside 

Yeah, I'm workin' my way back to you, babe 

And the happiness that died 



I let it get away 

Do, do, do, do, do 

(Been payin' every day) 

Do, do, do, do, do 



Oh, I used to love to make you cry 

It made me feel like a man inside 

If I had been a man in reality 

You'd be here, baby, loving me 



Now my nights are long and lonely 

And I ain't too proud, babe, I just miss you so 

Girl, but you're too proud and you won't give in 

But when I think about all I could win 



I'll keep working my way back to you, babe 

With a burning love inside 

Yeah, I'm workin' my way back to you, babe 

And the happiness that died 



I let it get away 

Do, do, do, do, do 

(Been payin' every day) 

Do, do, do, do, do 



(You, you, babe) 

My road is kind of long 

(You, you, babe) 

I just gotta get back home 



Whoa, I'm really sorry for actin' that way 

I'm really sorry, ooh, little girl 

I'm really sorry for throwin' away our love, sweet little girl 

I'm really sorry for makin' you cry 

I really mean it, don't you hear me talkin' to you 

I'm really sorry for telling you lies for so long 



Oh, please, forgive me, girl, come on (Give me a chance) 

Won't you forgive me, girl, hey, (Let's have romance) 

Ooh, forgive me, girl (Let's try again) 

Come on, forgive me, girl 

I want you over and over and over and over and over again 



Won't you give me one more try 

If you don't I believe I'll die 



I'm sorry for actin' that way 

I'm really sorry, little bitty girl 

I'm really sorry for throwin' away our love 



Please, baby, forgive me, girl, oh (Give me a chance) 

Won't you forgive me, girl, hey (Let's have romance) 

Please forgive me, girl (Let's try again) 

Forgive me, girl 

I want you over and over and over and over and over again 



I keep working my way back to you, babe 

With a burnin' love inside 

Hey, I'm workin' my way back to you, babe 

And the happiness that died 



I let it get away 

Do, do, do, do, do 

(Payin' every day) 

Do, do, do, do, do 



I keep working my way back to you, babe 

Oh... yeah (Burning love inside) 

I keep workin' my way back to you, babe 

And the happiness that died 



I let it get away 

(Do, do, do, do, do) 

Paying every day 

(Do, do, do, do, do) 



I keep working my way back to you, babe 

Yeah... (Burning love inside) 

(Working my way back to you, babe) 

And the happiness that died


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> I didn't flounce from a forum. I flounced from the boards in their entirety.



Yeah...and crawled back again.....with a tale full of self-enlightenment and inner-wisdom which is slowly becoming eclipsed by a return to the know it all smart arse that ran away in the first place.


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## yardbird (Jan 20, 2010)

Maggot said:


> I think you mean 40 years old.



That in it's self depresses me.


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## mentalchik (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I didn't like Eyes Wide Shut first time (at the cinema), probably due to the weight of expectation. But I liked it the second time (on video). The biggest problem with it for me is that it's based on a novella that's 100 years old, and the book's late-Empire Austro-Hungarian sensibility doesn't translate well to modern times. Once I'd accepted that limitation, I enjoyed it more.



Hmmm...........just found it intensely irritating...........mind you i'm not keen on either Nicole Kidman or Tom Cruise so that didn't help !


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## longdog (Jan 20, 2010)

Fight! Fight! Fight! and so on...


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## sim667 (Jan 20, 2010)

i quite like it

i was talking to a student today who said 'id never liked stanly kubrimabobby, but i watched that after you mentioned him and i like it"


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Yeah...and crawled back again.....with a tale full of self-enlightenment and inner-wisdom which is slowly becoming eclipsed by a return to the know it all smart arse that ran away in the first place.






Well, Nanker, even the enlightened can get a little impatient at times. They can even have a bad day. I'll bet that when the Dalai Lama stubs his toe, he goes, 'ouch!'.

Part of the enlightenment, is learning to go easy on oneself, and giving oneself some slack, even in times of a backslide...


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## Zabo (Jan 20, 2010)

Many of the themes apply in today's society - that's why it's very good.

I like Anderson's If.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Well, Nanker, even the enlightened can get a little impatient at times. They can even have a bad day. I'll bet that when the Dalai Lama stubs his toe, he goes, 'ouch!'.
> 
> Part of the enlightenment, is learning to go easy on oneself, and giving oneself some slack, even in times of a backslide...



 You're funny


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## little_legs (Jan 20, 2010)

longdog said:


> Fight! Fight! Fight! and so on...



indeed, i just got the popcorn out of the microwave to read this one unravel. any chance we can rename this thread, or just add something to the title?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You're funny



Thanks. You're a real laugh riot yourself.


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## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2010)

Zabo said:


> Many of the themes apply in today's society - that's why it's very good.
> 
> I like Anderson's If.



You would.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Zabo said:


> I like Anderson's If.



Yes - very good film.

Brittania Hospital...which was the 3rd in that loose trilogy was a bit of a wash out.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

little_legs said:


> indeed, i just got the popcorn out of the microwave to read this one unravel. any chance we can rename this thread, or just add something to the title?



How about 'Droogie Phelge Uncovers A Backslider'?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

mentalchik said:


> Hmmm...........just found it intensely irritating...........mind you i'm not keen on either Nicole Kidman or Tom Cruise so that didn't help !


That's absolutely fair, I think. It's not a film I'd defend. 

Barry Lyndon, on the other hand, is vastly underrated and unfairly criticised, I think (not that anyone's criticised it here). It's a sumptuous, beautifully crafted film. Kubrick was a fantastic craftsman. The Killing is possibly the most perfectly crafted heist film ever made.


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## longdog (Jan 20, 2010)

Zabo said:


> Many of the themes apply in today's society - that's why it's very good.
> 
> I like Anderson's If.



Is it better than Thunderbirds and Space 1999?


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## scifisam (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> When has it ever been described as a 'cinematic masterpiece'?



Frequently, on my MA module that was about adaptations to film. It was genuinely very, very daring and shocking for the time, some of the visuals were outstanding and have become iconic: the boys' outfits, the lady tables, the eyes held open by what's basically a torture device. Some of the uses of sound - like the William Tell overture section - were innovative and very effective. 

So yeah, it's often described as a masterpiece and deserves the title. Doesn't mean everyone'll like it, though.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's absolutely fair, I think. It's not a film I'd defend.
> 
> Barry Lyndon, on the other hand, is vastly underrated and unfairly criticised, I think (not that anyone's criticised it here). It's a sumptuous, beautifully crafted film. Kubrick was a fantastic craftsman. The Killing is possibly the most perfectly crafted heist film ever made.



I think Kubrick was wildly uneven. My opinion of Barry Lyndon, viewed at the time, was that the film received a polite reception as a result of the good work that the director had done in the past.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Thanks. You're a real laugh riot yourself.



Well, I read you posts over and over at night, repeat them in public.

People are often in hysterics.

So thanks for the material....it really works.


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## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's absolutely fair, I think. It's not a film I'd defend.
> 
> Barry Lyndon, on the other hand, is vastly underrated and unfairly criticised, I think (not that anyone's criticised it here). It's a sumptuous, beautifully crafted film. Kubrick was a fantastic craftsman. The Killing is possibly the most perfectly crafted heist film ever made.



Have you seen Le Cercle Rouge

(**hold your nerve  butchers, keep it together** )


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Have you seen Le Cercle Rouge
> 
> (**hold your nerve  butchers, keep it together** )


No, I haven't. I shall try to see it now though. 

The Killing has one of my favourite moments in any film – when one of the gang is short with the attendant because he needs to get rid of him. Up till then, he's treated the attendant with total respect – and he's been appreciated for it (attendant is black, gangster is white, attendant is used to being treated with disdain by the white punters). Then suddenly he's treated just the same as by all the other ignorant white bastards, and he's totally deflated, but it's the only way to get rid of him. Beautifully judged – who says Kubrick's films were cold and lacked empathy?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Well, I read you posts over and over at night, repeat them in public..



With your stuff, I have a little chuckle, then promptly forget it. 

But then, I'm older.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

The backstory, for those who are interested.

I commented that I'd seen Nanker's dick on the Naked thread, probably more times than I'd seen my own dick right here in real life, and he seemed to take umbrage at that.

Now, he snipes at me over things like Stanley Kubrick. 

I guess he's pretty proud of his dick, and he felt that my comment was hitting below the belt or something.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

scifisam said:


> So yeah, it's often described as a masterpiece and deserves the title. Doesn't mean everyone'll like it, though.



Don't get me wrong - I like it, but feeling for it has always been fairly split between love and hate.

I don't believe it's a masterpiece.

It was all the things I posted in post 9, and more....and it remains a key film, important in lots of ways, in cinema history.....but I dunno if it's a masterpiece.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Also, I think he vowed after that never to post another photo of his dick. I think this vow was made in a bit of a snit, because it would appear that he's gone back on it, and once again is back to sharing his pride and joy.


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## Dr. Furface (Jan 20, 2010)

I still remember creeping in to see this when it was released - I was about 15. You just had to see it. I think of it as a kind of rites of passage film. It was incredible then and I still think it is.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

There is, of course, an obvious tie-in between our little spat, and the subject of this thread....


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> The backstory, for those who are interested.
> 
> *I commented that I'd seen Nanker's dick on the Naked thread, probably more times than I'd seen my own dick right here in real life, and he seemed to take umbrage at that.*
> 
> ...



The bit in bold never actually happened that I can remember.

Actually, when you returned to this forum after leaving I told you I felt it was a weak thing to do.

You ignored me for nearly a year and then decided to have a dig at me about the naked thread on the ugly mug thread....being the cross contaminating wank poster that you are.

I always thought you were a dick, now I'm know.

But hey have it your way if it suits you.....you're a man of feeble constitution who can not stand by his actions, so I shouldn't expect too much.

In the meantime....if you want to carry this on via a PM, I'll happily deal with it.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 20, 2010)

Nobody else cares, kids.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Also, I think he vowed after that never to post another photo of his dick. I think this vow was made in a bit of a snit, because it would appear that he's gone back on it, and once again is back to sharing his pride and joy.



Being a serial lurker on the naked thread you'd know all the facts.

Must be hard wanking over me and disliking me all at the same time.

Love is hard..........baby xxxxxxxxxx


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nobody else cares, kids.



Sorry all


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You ignored me for nearly a year .



Ignored you? You didn't rise into the radar to the point where ignoring was even on the list for consideration.

I won't be pming you. You have consistently barged into more than one thread with this gratuitous dig about my having flounced.

So, you can take my response right out here in public, like a man.


p.s. If you want to post a thousand photos of your dick, be my guest. I was just questioning why someone would want to do it, is all.

If my asking that question brings up some deep wellspring of anger in you, well, who's to know? But surely you must have expected something like that, after the umpteenth photo?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Sorry all



If you're actually sorry, leave off with the 'well you flounced and then slunk back', in threads where it's totally irrelevant.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Love is hard..........baby xxxxxxxxxx



No. You are hard. Like a man.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> p.s. If you want to post a thousand photos of your dick, be my guest. I was just questioning why someone would want to do it, is all.



I post pics of my dick because people like you look at it and that turns me on.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> If you're actually sorry, leave off with the 'well you flounced and then slunk back', in threads where it's totally irrelevant.



Why....will you flounce off if I don't? Like a big baby?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I post pics of my dick because people like you look at it and that turns me on.



Well then it's a win-win situation.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Why....will you flounce off if I don't? Like a big baby?



But if I flounce, what will I wank to?


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## yardbird (Jan 20, 2010)

Zabo said:


> Many of the themes apply in today's society - that's why it's very good.
> 
> I like Anderson's If.



I feel like I went to the same fucking school.
We had an armory too


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Have you seen Le Cercle Rouge
> 
> (**hold your nerve  butchers, keep it together** )



That's a fucking great film.

I've heard Johnny To is doing a remake


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## Reno (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> The backstory, for those who are interested.
> 
> I commented that I'd seen Nanker's dick on the Naked thread, probably more times than I'd seen my own dick right here in real life, and he seemed to take umbrage at that.
> 
> ...



Thanks, we're not interested, especially not on a thread about a Kubrick film.



...and do me a personal favour by staying in the closet.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> But if I flounce, what will I wank to?



Your idea of yourself?


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 20, 2010)




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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Your idea of yourself?



Nowhere near as thrilling.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Nowhere near as thrilling.



I could have told you that, but keep trying.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


>



Watch it you. This fight is for large men with shaved heads.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I could have told you that, but keep trying.



You didn't have to tell me. You showed me.

Over and over.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 20, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Watch it you. This fight is for large men with shaved heads.



large?


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Even in the mess I think O lucky Man says more, and takes more chances.<snip>


 and it's also got a young and deeply gorgeous Helen Mirren in it.


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## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> That's a fucking great film.
> 
> I've heard Johnny To is doing a remake



He is - a better person to have a crack there isn't. Which means it'll prob be shit. You may have noticed To's nods to Melville in Vengeance/Revenge - i.e Mr Haillday being called Costello - not Jef Costello, but Frank Costello, the Italian release of Le samouraï being titled Frank Costello, Face of an Angel.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> large?



We _know_ you're large.

With me, you'll just have to take my word for it.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

I start tussling with Nanker, and the only two guys I have on ignore, suddenly pop onto the boards.

How does that work? Jungle telegraph?


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> I start tussling with Nanker, and the only two guys I have on ignore, suddenly pop onto the boards.
> 
> How does that work? Jungle telegraph?



Nonce.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 21, 2010)

You have _Bernie Gunther_ on ignore?


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> He is - a better person to have a crack there isn't. Which means it'll prob be shit. You may have noticed To's nods to Melville in Vengeance/Revenge - i.e Mr Haillday being called Costello - not Jef Costello, but Frank Costello, the Italian release of Le samouraï being titled Frank Costello, Face of an Angel.



Yeah the L'samourai references were seriously intact.

He asked Delon to play that role and he turned it down....doh.

With Delon it could have been a fair sequel (ish).

Film made a mint in france as well.

To's film have increasingly headed towards the french new wave/spag western/heroic bloodshed...

My only question is why remake it at all?


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> We _know_ you're large.



I'm really not, in any way....but I stand tall.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2010)

longdog said:


> I've eventually got round to watching A Clockwork Orange and after much careful deliberation I'm wondering if I can sue Kubrick's estate for the two hours* of my life I wasted on this pitiful pile of festering cat bollocks.
> 
> How the fuck is it supposed to be a cinematic masterpiece?



Well, I kind of like it.

If you think it's shit then never watch _Gladiator_.


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## scifisam (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Don't get me wrong - I like it, but feeling for it has always been fairly split between love and hate.
> 
> I don't believe it's a masterpiece.
> 
> It was all the things I posted in post 9, and more....and it remains a key film, important in lots of ways, in cinema history.....but I dunno if it's a masterpiece.



I considered adding 'but that doesn't mean everyone will agree that it's a masterpiece.' However, it;s widely-known as a movie classic and/or a masterpiece.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You have _Bernie Gunther_ on ignore?



Yeah.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Bernie Gunther said:


> and it's also got a young and deeply gorgeous Helen Mirren in it.



She really is young and gorgeous....so young it's almost hard to tell it's her.


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## butchersapron (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Yeah the L'samourai references were seriously intact.
> 
> He asked Delon to play that role and he turned it down....doh.
> 
> ...



There's no need, but Johhny To can do wtf he likes as far as i'm concerned. I'm looking forward to a glorious mess.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I'm really not, in any way....but I stand tall.



I'm actually physically big; unclear on my moral stature.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

scifisam said:


> I considered adding 'but that doesn't mean everyone will agree that it's a masterpiece.' However, it;s widely-known as a movie classic and/or a masterpiece.



Yes - I'd agree with that.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> There's no need, but Johhny To can do wtf he likes as far as i'm concerned. I'm looking forward to a glorious mess.



Agreed - he makes some serious fun journeys.

stupidly only got round to watching Exiled today!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loved it....but not as much as Mission.

To deserves so much more credit than Tarantino.....drawing on the same influences yet delivering much more original fims.


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## futha (Jan 21, 2010)

clockwork orange is probably one of my favourites of all time!


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## futha (Jan 21, 2010)

I just noticed my tagline fits this thread


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## Voley (Jan 21, 2010)

Of it's time but still great imo. I've watched it a couple of times and really enjoyed it both times. Prefer the book.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> I'm actually physically big



fat?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> fat?



Fatter than I'd like to be.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

Judging from the photos of the rest of your body, you could likely lay a licking on me.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Judging from the photos of the rest of your body, you could likely lay a licking on me.



I don't know what that means?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I don't know what that means?



You could probably beat me up in a fight.


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 21, 2010)

This is all getting a bit sexual.


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 21, 2010)

Oh, you are not talking about cocks anymore? My mistake.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> This is all getting a bit sexual.



It started with a discussion of dick photos.

How much more sexual can it get?


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## Voley (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> It started with a discussion of dick photos.



Isn't that a Hot Chocolate song?


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> It started with a discussion of dick photos.
> 
> How much more sexual can it get?



Probably quite a lot more, I reckon.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> You could probably beat me up in a fight.



Maybe...

...but do you like a Clockwork Orange more than O lucky Man, Johnny?

...or would you prefer to sit and see Johnny To's vengeance in which the mighty presence of Johnny Halliday walks tall among Hong Kong's finest ensemble cast to deliver a brilliant cross-breed french/HK hitman/gunslinger flick which delivers thrills, spills and a gun fight in a junk yard that has to be seen to be believed?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Maybe...
> 
> ...but do you like a Clockwork Orange more than O lucky Man, Johnny?
> 
> ...or would you prefer to sit and see Johnny To's vengeance in which the mighty presence of Johnny Halliday walks tall among Hong Kong's finest ensemble cast to deliver a brilliant cross-breed french/HK hitman/gunslinger flick which delivers thrills, spills and a gun fight in a junk yard that has to be seen to be believed?



Tbh, I've never seen O Lucky Man. Not sure why that is. 

Actually, it might be that when it came out, I lived in a fairly small prairie city. My friends who saw it at the time, had to travel to Calgary. That's just how it was.

I never got around to seeing it after that. I understand there's a scene with a part man part sheep hybrid. Or something.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

You have to wonder, though: they brought Barry Lyndon to town. Why not O Lucky Man? Too edgy, perhaps.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> I never got around to seeing it after that. I understand there's a scene with a part man part sheep hybrid. Or something.



Yes- there is.

In England we call these beings Welsh.

O lucky man is a very english film.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2010)

i first saw it in a tiny cinema in paris with a girlfriend when we were about 18. it was like the best film ever man. but we also dug kundera and magic realism and dr john and baudelaire and sobranie cigarettes and squidgy black. we even sat through wr mysteries of the orgasm once.
the second time i saw it, i liked it less but appreciated the score immensely.
can't be arsed seeing it again though.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> i first saw it in a tiny cinema in paris with a girlfriend when we were about 18. it was like the best film ever man. but we also dug kundera and magic realism and dr john and baudelaire and sobranie cigarettes and squidgy black. we even sat through wr mysteries of the orgasm once.
> the second time i saw it, i liked it less but appreciated the score immensely.
> can't be arsed seeing it again though.



...you dug Kundera...

Dr John's alright though


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 21, 2010)

I still dig Kundera.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2010)

uugghgghhhh - i reread a bit of ULoB a few years ago and it was excruciating


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> ULoB


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 21, 2010)

I liked it when I read it. And Slowness, and I've read a couple of others whose names escape me that I liked too. I thought ULoB was a great study of totalitarianism. 

And I doubt he's ever had any problem getting laid after writing those books.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


>



i couldn't be bothered to type 'the unbearable lightness of being'. it's a shame kundera could be though.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


>


Unbearable Lightness of Being


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> i couldn't be bothered to type 'the unbearable lightness of being'. it's a shame kundera could be though.



Oh, ok......yes....girls read all that when I was a young sir.


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## butchersapron (Jan 21, 2010)

_Five years in a pc camp_ - cunt got off lightly.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Oh, ok......yes....girls read all that when I was a young sir.


randy old goat


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 21, 2010)

He captured the way totalitarian regimes trivialise their citizens, though. Captured it very well.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> randy old goat



Young goat!


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## Maggot (Jan 21, 2010)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> It started with a discussion of dick photos.





NVP said:


> Isn't that a Hot Chocolate song?


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## Maggot (Jan 21, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I still dig Kundera.


I still dig squidgy black.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He captured the way totalitarian regimes trivialise their citizens, though. Captured it very well.



i didn't really come away with much of that to be absolutely honest. i just remember the wanton philandering. and something about photographing tanks. and then something about airbrushing faces out of photographs (ah, that's the book of laughter and forgetting perhaps. ? lol) but ULOB is mostly about a bounder. imnshbrfo


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## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Young goat!



who?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 21, 2010)

ULoB.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 21, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> who?



Sorry, thought you were calling me a randy 'old' goat.

Were you referring Kundera?


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## Mungy (Jan 21, 2010)

i feel asleep when i tried to watch it.


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## trevhagl (Jan 21, 2010)

longdog said:


> I've eventually got round to watching A Clockwork Orange and after much careful deliberation I'm wondering if I can sue Kubrick's estate for the two hours* of my life I wasted on this pitiful pile of festering cat bollocks.
> 
> How the fuck is it supposed to be a cinematic masterpiece?
> 
> ...



I thought it was really good till it got to the bit where they deprogramme him then it dragged and dragged


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## El Sueno (Jan 21, 2010)

It's very theatrical but visually and aurally I think it's fucking fantastic. Not as good as the book though.


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## kyser_soze (Jan 21, 2010)

I think visually it's dated a lot more than Kubrick's other films; it has a 70s feel about it. Having said that, some of sets are brilliant.

As a film-of-book...well, the book is an aquired taste IMO, and the film reflects that. But I'd never describe it as boring or a waste of time to watch.


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## Onket (Jan 21, 2010)

The 'I want to marry a lighthouse keeper' track is great. I bought the soundtrack mainly for that.


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## audiotech (Jan 21, 2010)

Preferred the book over the film. The deemed future language used made it a difficult subject matter to follow.


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 21, 2010)

you are all piles of shit.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 21, 2010)

Worth it for the giant pocelain cock and the sharp suits. Doesn't make any sense.


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## kyser_soze (Jan 21, 2010)

MC5 said:


> Preferred the book over the film. The deemed future language used made it a difficult subject matter to follow.



Nadsat's a fantastic creation. 

Viddy it well.


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## kabbes (Jan 21, 2010)

Also its good use of lovely, lovely Ludwig Van.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 21, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Nadsat's a fantastic creation.
> 
> Viddy it well.


I found it difficult to read, I must admit, and I speak quite a bit of Russian. 

It's a book that I didn't finish, I'm sorry to say.


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## kyser_soze (Jan 21, 2010)

I've always wondered what Burgess would've made of contemporary yoofspk, txtspk etc. I generally lean toward the old curmudgeon hating it, but a part of me thinks he'd have found it interesting too.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 21, 2010)

He wrote a good book about language, A breathful of air or something like that. From what I remember of the book, I think he'd have thoroughly approved of the creativity textspeak shows.


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## JimW (Jan 21, 2010)

Not seen the film but have read the book - much preferred his historical novels on Shakespeare and Marlowe, tho agree about the cleverness of the invented language in Clockwork Orange, particularly how he drew you into it without hand-holding.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 21, 2010)

longdog said:


> I've eventually got round to watching A Clockwork Orange and after much careful deliberation I'm wondering if I can sue Kubrick's estate for the two hours* of my life I wasted on this pitiful pile of festering cat bollocks.
> 
> How the fuck is it supposed to be a cinematic masterpiece?
> 
> ...




The book's better.  I love the book.  But you're wrong about the film.  It's a good film.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 21, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I didn't like it. I didn't like the book either. At least i didn't have to get a ferry to watch it. It's just not very good.


You are quite wrong; it's a great book.  He was one of the best novelists of the 20th century.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 21, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He wrote a good book about language, A breathful of air or something like that. From what I remember of the book, I think he'd have thoroughly approved of the creativity textspeak shows.


A Mouthful of Air.  A very good book indeed.  I still recommend it to people to this day.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Sorry, thought you were calling me a randy 'old' goat.
> 
> Were you referring Kundera?



him. maybe you. maybe me. if the cap fits...


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## Kaka Tim (Jan 21, 2010)

Great book. Not sure about the Film.

I saw the film once when I was about 20. I remember it being pretty harsh - reading the book gives you a distance from the action as its being narrated by Alex, but the film throws the old ultra violence right in your face and I found it pretty uncomfortable. Gave me a pain in me gullivar it did.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 21, 2010)

I must admit I've never seen Barry Lyndon. Seen a few bits and stills though and hence have always wanted to. Just never had the opportunity to see it.


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## weltweit (Jan 21, 2010)

It was ages ago that I saw a clockwork orange. I had been led to believe it was something one had to see, like Easy Rider perhaps, perhaps a cult film. 

Well it wasn't really a cult film but I enjoyed it.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 24, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> She really is young and gorgeous....so young it's almost hard to tell it's her.



Check this out, an even younger Helen Mirren plus Diana Rigg and all muddy like they were Welsh girls in wellies at Stonehenge, doing Midsummer Night's dream.


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## editor (May 19, 2021)

Hat test for the film, apparently.


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## elbows (May 19, 2021)

I reckon some of those hats failed the test in spectacular fashion!


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## Nine Bob Note (May 19, 2021)

But for the want of a cheap novelty bowler hat that would actually fit my massive head, I nearly went to work on Hallowe'en dressed as a cinematic/literary rapist. WTF!? 😱


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## Jay Park (May 19, 2021)

__





						‘Don’t read Clockwork Orange – it’s a foul farrago,’ wrote Burgess | Anthony Burgess | The Guardian
					

The great novelist saw himself as a poet, and newly found stanzas show him berating his own bestseller in verse




					amp.theguardian.com


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