# Matrix’s PowerWatch 2 needs no charger, uses body heat and solar power



## editor (Jan 7, 2019)

This is more like it, although it'#s clearly got some way to go: 









> The PowerWatch 2’s LCD color display is always-on (although it can be turned off) and is also well-suited for the great outdoors, thanks to a scratch-resistant screen and water resistance to 200 meters. It has vibrant color reproduction with sharp text, making it a better-looking display than say, one of the defunct color Pebble watches from yesteryear, but it’s not nearly as colorful as a touchscreen Wear OS watch or Apple Watch
> 
> Some of the PowerWatch 2’s other useful features include GPS tracking, heart rate monitoring, a compass function, pace, and even cadence tracking. Most of these features are already present on other wearables, including the Apple Watch and Galaxy Watch. But once again the PowerWatch 2 has another trick up its sleeve, granted by the unique way that it stores power. Because the wearable is constantly calculating and tracking the body heat you produce (then converting it into thermoelectric power and storing it), it also has an energy production counter. Yes, the PowerWatch 2 can tell you how much energy it’s receiving from _you._
> 
> Between a battery that lasts as long as you do and a rugged body that can take on the elements, it’s hard to tell if the PowerWatch 2 is even destructible. But you can be sure about one thing: this is an exciting development for self-powered wearables.


Matrix’s PowerWatch 2 needs no charger, uses body heat and solar power



Review: 
This smartwatch harvests your body heat, the power of the sun to stay charged


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## kropotkin (Jan 8, 2019)

I sqe that today, absolutely killer if they can make it work and smaller.


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## NoXion (Jan 20, 2019)

We've had watches that self-wind using the wearer's movement since the late 18th century.


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## kropotkin (Jan 21, 2019)

Few of them had a touchscreen, GPS or were able to SSH into my server, mind


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

kropotkin said:


> Few of them had a touchscreen, GPS or were able to SSH into my server, mind


EXACTLY!


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

I'm calling bullshit on it. Nobody is going to leave that monstrosity in public view long enough for it to receive any charge from solar, and peltier charging won't work without a cooler.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm calling bullshit on it. Nobody is going to leave that monstrosity in public view long enough for it to receive any charge from solar, and peltier charging won't work without a cooler.


Your expert analysis is duly noted, although it should be noted that the first version of this watch, although not perfect, seemed to charge itself just fine.  



> I wore the PowerWatch X for nearly a week, and it was great that I never had to worry about charging it overnight. It just kept going and going, and I'm really interested to see how this technology develops as it becomes more efficient.
> Matrix PowerWatch X Review: This Smartwatch Never Needs Charging


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Your expert analysis is duly noted


Thanks, and you're welcome.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Thanks, and you're welcome.


Seeing as you're just going to ignore the fact that your last statement was provably wrong and you think it's all a joke, I can only assume you're just trolling now, and the rules are pretty straightforward on that.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Seeing as you're just going to ignore the fact that your last statement was provably wrong and you think it's all a joke, I can only assume you're just trolling now, and the rules are pretty straightforward on that.


Your evidence is that a paid shill wore it for a few days. How much are they paying you to advertise it? Because surely nobody would take a paid shill's word that body heat alone will keep it charged.
And please bear in mind that my area of expertise is electronics, before accusing me of trolling.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

And what are the rules on cross thread beefs? Because you're being a proper cunt to me since you made a fool of yourself on that usb c thread.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm calling bullshit on it. Nobody is going to leave that monstrosity in public view long enough for it to receive any charge from solar, and peltier charging won't work without a cooler.



I'm going to guess you may have a point that the peltier charging is only going to really be effective on cold days, and if there's any real luminosity to the screen then you're going to have trouble with solar (though maybe if you keep it on low light level and wear it a lot in the sun it will be ok).

I'm going to guess this just helps the battery last longer for most purposes, and that it will come with a charger.

edit:  I see it's colour LCD rather than LED - that will help keep power requirements down.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> And what are the rules on cross thread beefs? Because you're being a proper cunt to me since you made a fool of yourself on that usb c thread.





Saul Goodman said:


> Your evidence is that a paid shill wore it for a few days. How much are they paying you to advertise it? Because surely nobody would take a paid shill's word that body heat alone will keep it charged.
> And please bear in mind that my area of expertise is electronics, before accusing me of trolling.


OK, that's another warning for that unwarranted cross-thread abuse and a bizarre accusation of being paid to talk about a product (which i've already described as not being perfect). I'd be careful what you post next because you are creating unacceptable levels of disruption now.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> OK, that's another warning for that unwarranted cross-thread abuse and a bizarre accusation of being paid to talk about a product (which i've already described as not being perfect). I'd be careful what you post next because you are creating unacceptable levels of disruption now.



That was clearly not an accusation of being a paid shill, but an accusation of gullibility, given the source material.

Re: the watch - it's very much an "outdoorsy watch for people who do outdoorsy things" (from both nominal charging conditions and feature set), so I think it could well be successful, but just in a particular corner of the market.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I'm going to guess you may have a point that the peltier charging is only going to really be effective on cold days, and if there's any real luminosity to the screen then you're going to have trouble with solar (though maybe if you keep it on low light level and wear it a lot in the sun it will be ok).
> 
> I'm going to guess this just helps the battery last longer for most purposes, and that it will come with a charger.
> 
> edit:  I see it's colour LCD rather than LED - that will help keep power requirements down.


It's clearly early days for this tech and the watch is hardly attarctive, but several reviews seem to suggest that the charging tech does indeed work: 



> But first, does the thermoelectric technology work? Yes, and it’s impressive. We wore the watch for more than a week, and it never ran out of juice. We also didn’t wear the watch for a week, and it still didn’t die. If you leave the PowerWatch unattended for a long period of time, it will simply turn off before completely running out of power. You can turn it back on again and wear it to charge it back up.
> If you're wearing it, it's charging. The Matrix PowerWatch runs on body heat


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> That was clearly not an accusation of being a paid shill, but an accusation of gullibility, given the source material.
> 
> Re: the watch - it's very much an "outdoorsy watch for people who do outdoorsy things" (from both nominal charging conditions and feature set), so I think it could well be successful, but just in a particular corner of the market.


He knows exactly what I was saying. He's just abusing his power over a cross thread beef he has against me.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> That was clearly not an accusation of being a paid shill, but an accusation of gullibility, given the source material.


What's wrong with Tom's Guide? is there any evidence that it's written by paid shills?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> What's wrong with Tom's Guide? is there any evidence that it's written by paid shills?


People who get free tech and make money from reviewing it are by default paid shills


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> People who get free tech and make money from reviewing it are by default paid shills


I'm sure some sites may knock out positive reviews in return for any free tech that comes their way, but to suggest that every single reviewer is a 'paid shill' is absolute fucking rubbish.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> It's clearly early days for this tech and the watch is hardly attarctive, but several reviews seem to suggest that the charging tech does indeed work:



Yeah, I said that when I thought it had an LED screen and some real computing grunt. 
I think with an LCD screen and that feature set it sounds about right if you're in good light conditions.  I had a solar LCD watch as a kid, it hardly needed to be in bright light much at all, never ran down and I wore it everywhere til I broke it falling off my bike - I would expect the amount of energy harvested by solar cells is way higher, and I expect that does the lion's share of the charging, since you need a heat difference to make the body heat thing work (so if you were out skiing and had your clothing arranged right, that might be ideal conditions for it).

I do wonder whether it makes your wrist cold, though.  I've never used such a thing...  

I can't comment on Tom's guide - the contention wasn't mine.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> I'm sure some sites may knock out positive reviews in return for any free tech that comes their way, but to suggest that every single reviewer is a 'paid shill' is absolute fucking rubbish.


And that warrants an abuse of your power with a totally unnecessary warning?


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> People who get free tech and make money from reviewing it are by default paid shills



My understanding is that a "paid shill" is someone who is compensated for a favourable review.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> My understanding is that a "paid shill" is someone who is compensated for a favourable review.


When was the last time you saw an unfavourable review from someone who gets free tech to review and makes money from adverts on their review site?


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> And that warrants an abuse of your power with a totally unnecessary warning?


You called me a "proper cunt" and then suggested I was being paid to write my (semi positive  ) comments ("How much are they paying you to advertise it? "). 

I suggest you get back to the topic of the watch and keep the ad hominems to yourself because my patience is wearing thin now.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> When was the last time you saw an unfavourable review from someone who gets free tech to review and makes money from adverts on their review site?


Notwithstanding the way you're now dishonestly trying to move the goalposts from anyone who gets "free tech and make money from reviewing it" to someone who makes money from adverts on tech sites, there are PLENTY of less than flattering reviews of sites that have adverts. It's not hard to find less than glowing reviews of this watch for starters.

Thing is, I've been a tech journalist and that's why I know you're talking bollocks. Sites that give out endless great reviews for shit products soon lose their credibility (and often their readership too).


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> When was the last time you saw an unfavourable review from someone who gets free tech to review and makes money from adverts on their review site?



Tech Radar gave it a cooler reception than the links in the OP.

And @editor’s point about the gushy sites rapidly losing cred is totally on point.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> You called me a "proper cunt" and then suggested I was being paid to write my (semi positive  ) comments ("How much are they paying you to advertise it? ").
> 
> I suggest you get back to the topic of the watch and keep the ad hominems to yourself because my patience is wearing thin now.


I didn't call you a proper cunt. I said you're being a proper cunt to me 
I gave my opinion on the watch, and you replied with a smartarse answer. 
And you've been a tech journalist Vs my electronic engineering background... Lol


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Tech Radar gave it a cooler reception than the links in the OP.


Stuff gave it just two stars. 



> The headline act for the PowerWatch is unquestionably the ability to thrive solely on your body heat. It was refreshing to not have to worry about a draining battery bar.
> 
> Otherwise, the positives stop there. The design is ugly and cumbersome, while the only worthwhile fitness features are step counting and sleep tracking – both of which you can get from the most basic of trackers.
> 
> ...



Matrix PowerWatch


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I didn't call you a proper cunt. I said you're being a proper cunt to me
> I gave my opinion on the watch, and you replied with a smartarse answer.
> And you've been a tech journalist Vs my electronic engineering background... Lol



So, will it make your wrist cold?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> So, will it make your wrist cold?


I doubt it. The opposing heastink isn't sufficiently substantial.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I didn't call you a proper cunt. I said you're being a proper cunt to me
> I gave my opinion on the watch, and you replied with a smartarse answer.
> And you've been a tech journalist Vs my electronic engineering background... Lol


Are you still sticking to your original claim that _all_ tech reviewers who get free products are "paid shills"? 

Here's your own comments: 



> People who get free tech and make money from reviewing it are by default paid shills


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I doubt it. The opposing heastink isn't sufficiently substantial.



I'm guessing the low power requirements will be key to it working.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Are you still sticking to your original claim that _all_ tech reviewers who get free products are "paid shills"?
> 
> Here's your own comments:


Yes, all of the ones who make money from reviewing the free products, whether that be direct payment or via ads on their website/YouTube, etc. It's impossible not to be biased when the free products are making you money.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I'm guessing the low power requirements will be key to it working.


Saul says it won't work, despite the reviews.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Saul says it won't work, despite the reviews.


No, I said I'm calling bullshit. I don't believe it will work without exposure to sunlight, and who exposes their watch to sunlight for more than the time it takes to look at it?


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Yes, all of the ones who make money from reviewing the free products, whether that be direct payment or via ads on their website/YouTube, etc. It's impossible not to be biased when the free products are making you money.


Then I can tell you - from my own personal experience of writing for a mainstream tech magazine from an international publisher and smaller, ad-supported tech sites - that you are totally wrong.

Sure there's some who will write any old shit in return for a freebie, but there are plenty of decent journalists who give an honest and thorough verdict of the gear they're reviewing, and your attempts to discredit them from a position of sheer ignorance is rather embarrassing.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> No, I said I'm calling bullshit. I don't believe it will work without exposure to sunlight, and who exposes their watch to sunlight for more than the time it takes to look at it?



From the look of that, it might be hard to get your shirt sleeve over it, and internal lighting will do for this kind of cell.
I can't comment on the peltier thing and how much energy it might yield relative to the solar cell.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> No, I said I'm calling bullshit. I don't believe it will work without exposure to sunlight, and who exposes their watch to sunlight for more than the time it takes to look at it?


Except it's not solely powered by solar, so what the fuck are you going on about? Your point makes no sense at all.



> Matrix made sure of it by adding a secondary charging system: a solar strip in a ring along the outer edge of the display. The company assured me this addition is redundant, since not one of the original PowerWatch’s users complained that the thermodynamic generator didn’t keep the watch going.
> 
> Matrix PowerWatch 2 hands on review | TechRadar


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Except it's not solely powered by solar, so what the fuck are you going on about? Your point makes no sense at all.


Calm down, dear. I never said it was. We've been discussing the peltier charging since the start of the thread, FFS


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Calm down, dear. I never said it was. We've been discussing the peltier charging since the start of the thread, FFS


Solar is the secondary back up power solution. So what is "bullshit" exactly? What "won't work"?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

If the thermal (peltier) charging was sufficient to keep it charged, why would it need the solar addition? If it does need both the peltier and the solar, and you keep the monstrosity covered (as I said at the start of the thread) then how will it charge sufficiently to keep it running?


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> If the thermal (peltier) charging was sufficient to keep it charged, why would it need the solar addition? If it does need both the peltier and the solar, and you keep the monstrosity covered (as I said at the start of the thread) then how will it charge sufficiently to keep it running?


Did many people complain about the original watch running out of power? 
Be sure to report back with your findings.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Did many people complain about the original watch running out of power?
> Be sure to report back with your findings.


So this is the way you work if anyone questions anything you post? Instead of actually thinking about what was said, you attack the poster, then give them a warning for daring to question the tech?
You're some piece of work.


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## Baronage-Phase (Jan 21, 2019)

Speaking of watches that run on solar power etc. 
I really like this....sundial watch.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Speaking of watches that run on solar power etc.
> I really like this....sundial watch.
> 
> View attachment 159359



Doubles as a weapon.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> If the thermal (peltier) charging was sufficient to keep it charged, why would it need the solar addition? If it does need both the peltier and the solar, and you keep the monstrosity covered (as I said at the start of the thread) then how will it charge sufficiently to keep it running?



Wouldn't this be based on a Seebeck rather than Peltier effect, anyway?

</uber possibly-wrong pedantry>


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## Baronage-Phase (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Doubles as a weapon.



And no need for gps...what with the compass. 
It be all the rage when the world implodes and we are all sent back to the stone age....and the poles flip....then it'll be a case of going round in circles for a while until everything settles down.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Wouldn't this be based on a Seebeck rather than Peltier effect, anyway?


They're the same thing. You can either apply electricity and use it as a heat pump or apply heat and use it to generate electricity.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> They're the same thing. You can either apply electricity and use it as a heat pump or apply heat and use it to generate electricity.



Yep, but the Peltier bit is the former and the Seebeck the latter, no?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yep, but the Peltier bit is the former and the Seebeck the latter, no?


Correct, but it's a peltier module that does the work


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

It works on the same principal as this.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> So this is the way you work if anyone questions anything you post? Instead of actually thinking about what was said, you attack the poster, then give them a warning for daring to question the tech?
> You're some piece of work.


I'm asking you to do some research to back up your claims that the watch is "bullshit" and "won't work." Can you do that please?


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> I'm asking you to do some research to back up your claims that the watch is "bullshit" and "won't work." Can you do that please?



Even though the watch is pretty big, it’s very small for something that generates power using this effect.

I’d guess Saul is thinking there isn’t an obvious outlet for sufficient heat, and I’m guessing they’ve done something clever with both that and keeping the power requirements down.

Once they put the backlight in, I think you’ll need to be really sparing with it.

Speaking as a layman...


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Phew!  Was thinking about electrical things and thought I’d got on the wrong tram for a sec, there!


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Even though the watch is pretty big, it’s very small for something that generates power using this effect.
> 
> I’d guess Saul is thinking there isn’t an obvious outlet for sufficient heat, and I’m guessing they’ve done something clever with both that and keeping the power requirements down.
> 
> ...


There's plenty of reviews - both paid and unpaid, i imagine - showing that clearly the tech _does _work, even if the watch is something of a flawed monster. If someone is going to declare it "bullshit" it would be useful to see something that backs that assertion up other than self proclaimed expertise.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> There's plenty of reviews - both paid and unpaid, i imagine - showing that clearly the tech _does _work, even if the watch is something of a flawed monster. If someone is going to declare it "bullshit" it would be useful to see something that backs that assertion up other than self proclaimed expertise.



We’ve both thus far neglected to mention the killer argument: that this is the second generation of watch that this company has made using this technology, and people are walking around using them.

Unless the company is being *really* naughty, I think we can say pretty confidently that this works.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> There's plenty of reviews - both paid and unpaid, i imagine - showing that clearly the tech _does _work, even if the watch is something of a flawed monster. If someone is going to declare it "bullshit" it would be useful to see something that backs that assertion up other than self proclaimed expertise.


Self proclaimed expertise, what, like you with your 'honest journalist' )) spiel?
I know what I know through experimentation and experience. You, on the other hand ' know' what you ' know' from reading an article on a website. Have you ever heard the adage "don't believe everything you read"?
I know you won't offer an apology, nor will you repeal your childish warning, but I have to say, your debating skills are on par with those of a petulant child.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Self proclaimed expertise, what, like you with your 'honest journalist' ) spiel?
> I know what I know through experimentation and experience. You, on the other hand ' know' what you ' know' from reading an article on a website. Have you ever heard the adage "don't believe everything you read"?
> I know you won't offer an apology, nor will you repeal your childish warning, but I have to say, your debating skills are on a par with those of a petulant child.



Well, these things are already out there.  My guess is the materials science guys have created a material for the watch face that dissipates heat very effectively.

Or they’ve stuck a battery in it and hope people get bored with it.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Self proclaimed expertise, what, like you with your 'honest journalist' )) spiel?
> I know what I know through experimentation and experience. You, on the other hand ' know' what you ' know' from reading an article on a website. Have you ever heard the adage "don't believe everything you read"?
> I know you won't offer an apology, nor will you repeal your childish warning, but I have to say, your debating skills are on par with those of a petulant child.


Sigh. Yet more pointless personal abuse in place of facts to back up your claims. Please stop.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Well, these things are already out there.  My guess is the materials science guys have created a material for the watch face that dissipates heat very effectively.
> 
> Or they’ve stuck a battery in it and hope people get bored with it.


There is, quite obviously a battery in it. Its discharge versus recharge rate is what I'm questioning.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> We’ve both thus far neglected to mention the killer argument: that this is the second generation of watch that this company has made using this technology, and people are walking around using them.
> 
> Unless the company is being *really* naughty, I think we can say pretty confidently that this works.


I'd say that's self evident to everyone but one poster here who is yet to back up his "bullshit" and "won't work" claims and prefers to insist that all the reviews are by "paid shills."


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> There is, quite obviously a battery in it. Its discharge versus recharge rate is what I'm questioning.



You know what I mean.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Sigh. Yet more pointless personal abuse in place of facts to back up your claims. Please stop.


I'm asking if you'll revisit what I said and reconsider your over the top reaction. I don't think it's too much to ask, but you seem incapable of accepting that my questioning of the tech wasn't a personal attack on you


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> I'd say that's self evident to everyone but one poster here who is yet to back up his "bullshit" and "won't work" claims and prefers to insist that all the reviews are by "paid shills."



Well, if you have something very hot in your house, like an Aga, you can usually claw just a few watts out of standard peltier units, so some scepticism isn’t too surprising, but seeing as this is the second gen, I don’t think it’s reasonable.

It’s certainly true that you couldn’t power an Apple watch with this kind of tech unless you were that guy from _Fantastic Four._


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm asking if you'll revisit what I said and reconsider your over the top reaction. I don't think it's too much to ask, but you seem incapable of accepting that my questioning of the tech wasn't a personal attack on you



I looked for a teardown on YouTube, but couldn’t find one.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Well, if you have something very hot in your house, like an Aga, you can usually claw just a few watts out of standard peltier units, so some scepticism isn’t too surprising, but seeing as this is the second gen, I don’t think it’s reasonable.
> 
> It’s certainly true that you couldn’t power an Apple watch with this kind of tech unless you were that guy from _Fantastic Four._


Of course, but then its made very clear from the start that this is a more basic kind of watch, that is fine tuned to run on the limited power it receives. But it clearly works to a reasonable degree, despite one poster's claims to the contrary. 

I think it's really exciting tech and I look forward to future developments. I'd definitely be interested in a reasonably attractive smartwatch capable of displaying maps/notifications/step counts etc that didn't need charging.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> There's plenty of reviews - both paid and unpaid, i imagine - showing that clearly the tech _does _work, even if the watch is something of a flawed monster. If someone is going to declare it "bullshit" it would be useful to see something that backs that assertion up other than self proclaimed expertise.


Ok. Supply me with one and I will do a scientific study of it.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Of course, but then its made very clear from the start that this is a more basic kind of watch, that is fine tuned to run on the limited power it receives. But it clearly works to a reasonable degree, despite one poster's claims to the contrary.
> 
> I think it's really exciting tech and I look forward to future developments. I'd definitely be interested in a reasonably attractive smartwatch capable of displaying maps/notifications/step counts etc that didn't need charging.



More than reasonable, considering that of the reviews of the existing watch, I haven’t seen one that mentions running out of juice.

It’s also interesting tech in terms
of wearables and medical devices (which is closer to my field).

I think displaying maps will be a little way off, but the other bits seem plausible (notifications may need a certain amount of lag tolerance).


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Of course, but then its made very clear from the start that this is a more basic kind of watch, that is fine tuned to run on the limited power it receives. But it clearly works to a reasonable degree, despite one poster's claims to the contrary.
> 
> I think it's really exciting tech and I look forward to future developments. I'd definitely be interested in a reasonably attractive smartwatch capable of displaying maps/notifications/step counts etc that didn't need charging.


It isn't going to happen. GPS uses more power than could ever be replenished by the methods this watch uses.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Interesting review here:



Far from being a "paid shill" fluff piece, the author criticises the step count which is way out, but praises the watch's lack of charging.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

So, editor, how about you go back and rescind your 'bullshit' warning?


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Ok. Supply me with one and I will do a scientific study of it.


You're the one disputing everyone else's findings without having anything to back up your claims, so its very much up to you to do your own research. I know whose opinion I'd trust over yours.

What is your technical expertise in the smartwatch area by the way? Do you even own one?


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> It isn't going to happen. GPS uses more power than could ever be replenished by the methods this watch uses.



Maybe for occasional pulsed takings of bearings...?

With the solar backup?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> So, editor, how about you go back and rescind your 'bullshit' warning?


You're pushing your luck. I've put up with more than enough personal insults from you today. Either restrict your posts to the smartwatch under discussion or be banned from this thread.


----------



## salem (Jan 21, 2019)

Interesting tech and I was and still am a bit sceptical about the energy harvesting side of things. I'd imagine the amount of energy that can be recovered is constrained by physics and it'd be interesting to know exactly how much energy is being collected by the watch from the user and how efficient it is as a % compared to how much energy is given out by the arm - i.e how much further can this tech be exploited.

It'd be interesting to see a side by side comparison where maybe someone would wear one of these watches on each wrist, with one over some thermal insulating material just to see how much this is low energy components and good initial charge vs how much this is energy recovery.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Maybe for occasional pulsed takings of bearings...?
> 
> With the solar backup?


Some watches use the GPS off the paired watch to save power.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Some watches use the GPS off the paired watch to save power.


 
You mean the mobile?  That could work.  There are still some transmission costs - out of my area.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> You're the one disputing everyone else's findings without having anything to back up your claims, so its very much up to you to do your own research. I know whose opinion I'd trust over yours.
> 
> What is your technical expertise in the smartwatch area by the way? Do you even own one?


My technical expertise is a degree in electronic engineering. What's yours?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> My technical expertise is a degree in electronic engineering. What's yours?



Yeah, but being fair, did you specialise in this tech and also materials science advances in the last 10 years?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Maybe for occasional pulsed takings of bearings...?
> 
> With the solar backup?


GPS doesn't work like that. It needs a constant lock on satellites.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yeah, but being fair, did you specialise in this tech and also materials science advances in the last 10 years?


I specialised in electronics. The principles don't change, regardless of the device containing the electronics.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> GPS doesn't work like that. It needs a constant lock on satellites.



Well, it needs to find the things, true, but I’ve used my sat nav in an on-off fashion when I broke the charging cable.

Thing is, editor is talking about things from a very different angle to your knowledge of energetics.

It’s hard to argue with reviews from people who bought the first-gen watch.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I specialised in electronics. The principles don't change, regardless of the device containing the electronics.



I think the idea of carrying supercomputers in our pockets with immediate access to all human accumulated knowledge might have raised eyebrows not too long ago.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Some watches use the GPS off the paired watch to save power.


That requires Bluetooth connectivity. This charging system cannot cope with the power demand.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

And as paid shills go, saying “this is so amazing, I don’t believe it exists” is pretty good copy for the people who make the watch.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> That requires Bluetooth connectivity. This charging system cannot cope with the power demand.



Yeah, that seems plausible to me.
Though I do have some bluetooth headphones that charge in no time and seem to take practically forever to run down.

Of course, it’s all about the numbers, I’m not arguing with that.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I think the idea of carrying supercomputers in our pockets with immediate access to all human accumulated knowledge might have raised eyebrows not too long ago.


You're referring to actual modern tech. I'm also doing the same.


----------



## salem (Jan 21, 2019)

From their FAQ it seems the internal battery has around a year built in so no surprise the reviewers haven't had issues on that front.

"In conditions where PowerWatch is unable to charge, it will work for up to one year."

They also "recommend limiting Bluetooth activity to one sync event per day while wearing the PowerWatch" which seems to reduce the potential functionality quite a lot if using the phone for heavy lifting.

They are very vague about how much actual energy is harvested though


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

salem said:


> From their FAQ it seems the internal battery has around a year built in so no surprise the reviewers haven't had issues on that front.
> 
> "In conditions where PowerWatch is unable to charge, it will work for up to one year."
> 
> They also "recommend limiting Bluetooth activity to one sync event per day while wearing the PowerWatch" which seems to reduce the potential functionality quite a lot if using the phone for heavy lifting.


Fucking thank you!
Apology incoming, I doubt!!!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

So, editor , these reviewers who wore it for a week and didn't experience a situation where it went flat. With the above manufacturer FACT taken into account, is there any chance you may have been wrong (and an apology is forthcoming)?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Fucking thank you!
> Apology incoming, I doubt!!!



Oh, come on.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

salem said:


> From their FAQ it seems the internal battery has around a year built in so no surprise the reviewers haven't had issues on that front.
> 
> "In conditions where PowerWatch is unable to charge, it will work for up to one year."
> 
> ...



Cheers for the info. 

So, plausibly, they could tweak figures to spoof charge/recharge rate and could lie by some margin and you still wouldn’t necessarily work it out for half a decade.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

salem said:


> From their FAQ it seems the internal battery has around a year built in so no surprise the reviewers haven't had issues on that front.
> 
> "In conditions where PowerWatch is unable to charge, it will work for up to one year."
> 
> ...



Oh, one important point, from what I’ve seen, it says if you keep it in a drawer, *your settings* should be saved for a year or more, which puts a pretty different slant on it, power-consumption wise.

The thing is just going into hibernation mode.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Oh, come on.


I don't know if you're laughing at the thought of editor backing down or laughing at something else, but surely the above information casts doubt on the tech? It's quite obviously using the same screen tech as the paperwhite kindle, which uses zero power until the screen refreshes/changes, but it's quite obvious that if the battery lasts a year, then editor 's  assertion that I don't know my arse from a hole in the ground is unfounded.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

So, editor . Given this new information, are you prepared to admit that I may have a valid point?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I don't know if you're laughing at the thought of editor backing down or laughing at something else, but surely the above information casts doubt on the tech? It's quite obviously using the same screen tech as the paperwhite kindle, which uses zero power until the screen refreshes/changes, but it's quite obvious that if the battery lasts a year, then editor 's  assertion that I don't know my arse from a hole in the ground is unfounded.



Yeah, see my post above.  We could argue that they are being naughty with the software, but they seem to be talking about just retaining settings. 

Theoretically, being doubtful may be warranted but it’s a suicidal business plan for the people involved if they are lying about the tech.  Looks to
me like the first-gen doesn’t have solar from the pics, either.

As for the Bluetooth “once a day” thing, I would have assumed it wouldn’t manage wireless connection at all, so that’s pretty impressive.

It does seem to imply that if you have a decent charge, taking a few GPS bearings might be plausible.  No transmission involved.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

I also think maybe you and editor need to accept each other’s quirks and bury the hatchet.

I had some bad exchanges with editor too recently.  I had a nasty bout of the swine flu and was being arsey, but apologies nevertheless. 

We’re just talking about new toys, after all.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yeah, see my post above.  We could argue that they are being naughty with the software, but they seem to be talking about just retaining settings.
> 
> Theoretically, being doubtful may be warranted but it’s a suicidal business plan for the people involved if they are lying about the tech.  Looks to
> me like the first-gen doesn’t have solar from the pics, either.
> ...


You assume wrongly. A single  connection to GPS would probably use more power than this could generate in a year.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> You assume wrongly. A single  connection to GPS would probably use more power than this could generate in a year.



Fair enough.  Why is that?  Obviously there’s no transmissions involved, so is it down to the distances in play, and amplifying signals?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I also think maybe you and editor need to accept each other’s quirks and bury the hatchet.
> 
> I had some bad exchanges with editor too recently.  I had a nasty bout of the swine flu and was being arsey, but apologies nevertheless.
> 
> We’re just talking about new toys, after all.


I have no hatchet to bury. Granted I may be very vocal but imo his 'warnings' today we're out of order.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I have no hatchet to bury. Granted I may be very vocal but imo his 'warnings' today we're out of order.



“Very vocal”.

Yeah, you could say that.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

kropotkin said:


> Few of them had a touchscreen, GPS or were able to SSH into my server, mind



I don’t think this one does those things, having looked at it further.

Though that would be way cool.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Fair enough.  Why is that?  Obviously there’s no transmissions involved, so is it down to the distances in play, and amplifying signals?


One of my areas is GPS. For the past five years I've been developing a low power GPS tracking device for motorcycles. Unfortunately, where GPS is concerned, low power is an oxymoron. 
Modern phones contain the best ' low power ' GPS receivers available. Turn on the GPS on your phone and see how much extra power is needed to run it.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Also, apols to editor who pointed out the first version of this watch in the first couple of posts.  Missed that.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> One of my areas is GPS. For the past five years I've been developing a low power GPS tracking device for motorcycles. Unfortunately, where GPS is concerned, low power is an oxymoron.
> Modern phones contain the best ' low power ' GPS receivers available. Turn on the GPS on your phone and see how much extra power is needed to run it.



I don’t doubt any of that, was just wondering why it has the comparatively high power requirements seeing how
it’s just receiving radio signals.

Is it the radio element or the triangulation calculations?

Edit: no worries if you don’t fancy talking about work - I’m a bugger for picking people’s brains when they know something that interests me


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I don’t doubt any of that, was just wondering why it has the comparatively high power requirements seeing how
> it’s just receiving radio signals.
> 
> Is it the radio element or the triangulation calculations?


It's all of the above. It's the power required to receive the data from the satellites, and the power required to translate that into coordinates. This isn't a one-off calculation. It's happening constantly, and requires a lot of power, and certainly more than could be provided by a peltier device that would fit into this device and be powered by body heat, especially so when the heat differential would be so minimal that it's all but negligible.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's all of the above. It's the power required to receive the data from the satellites, and the power required to translate that into coordinates. This isn't a one-off calculation. It's happening constantly, and requires a lot of power, and certainly more than could be provided by a peltier device that would fit into this device and be powered by body heat, especially so when the heat differential would be so minimal that it's all but negligible.



Well, it doesn’t do it anyway, so it’s kind of an academic point.

How would taking a quick position check compare to a Bluetooth data transfer, power-wise (for plausible transfers of the kind this device could be doing).


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Well, it doesn’t do it anyway, so it’s kind of an academic point.
> 
> How would taking a quick position check compare to a Bluetooth data transfer, power-wise (for plausible transfers of the kind this device could be doing).


GPS coordinates are all but useless unless they're constantly updated. Assuming the device relies solely on Bluetooth to receive its GPS data from a phone, this would actually use as much, or possibly more power than if the device was using a built in GPS chip. Bluetooth actually requires a lot of power. Not so substantial when you compare it to the power stored in a phone's battery, but compared to the battery in this device, it's a massive consumption, hence their ' do not use bluetooth more than once a day' statement.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

Apologies for any and all typos. I'm typing this in bed on a kindle, and it is the worst device I've ever used to input text. It constantly corrects everything I type with non existent words


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> GPS coordinates are all but useless unless they're constantly updated. Assuming the device relies solely on Bluetooth to receive its GPS data from a phone, this would actually use as much, or possibly more power than if the device was using a built in GPS chip. Bluetooth actually requires a lot of power. Not so substantial when you compare it to the power stored in a phone's battery, but compared to the battery in this device, it's a massive consumption, hence their ' do not use bluetooth more than once a day' statement.



Well, it’s pretty handy finding out where you are.  If you’re pretty confident outdoors, just figuring out position and direction is pretty useful.

I was personally quite surprised it handles Bluetooth at all - I figured you might have to plug it in to transfer any data.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Apologies for any and all typos. I'm typing this in bed on a kindle, and it is the worst device I've ever used to input text. It constantly corrects everything I type with non existent words



Pickman’s Model is not on this thread, so I think you’ll get away with it.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Well, it’s pretty handy finding out where you are.  If you’re pretty confident outdoors, just figuring out position and direction is pretty useful.
> 
> I was personally quite surprised it handles Bluetooth at all - I figured you might have to plug it in to transfer any data.


But if you have a phone with GPS (don't they all, now?) Then why would you want to view that information on a device that will run flat if you use it to view the GPS data? Surely you would just view it on the phone?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> But if you have a phone with GPS (don't they all, now?) Then why would you want to view that information on a device that will run flat if you use it to view the GPS data? Surely you would just view it on the phone?



Yeah, if you’ve got a phone with charge this makes sense.

I kind of got the idea that this thing is meant to work mainly away from
a phone.  The feature set is a bit “Bear Grylls”.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yeah, if you’ve got a phone with charge this makes sense.
> 
> I kind of got the idea that this thing is meant to work mainly away from
> a phone.  The feature set is a bit “Bear Grylls”.


What's the point of bluetooth, if not to connect to another device?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Here's a quick hands-on prototype video that a blogger posted up. I don't believe he was given the unit to review so there's no chance of him being yet another of those 'paid shills.'



First Look: Body Heat and Solar Powered Matrix PowerWatch 2 GPS


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

And this seems a fair summary



> The Matrix PowerWatch X was a mixed bag for me.  While I was very impressed with its thermoelectric generator technology, which generates energy to power the watch’s battery through harvesting the heat transferred between cool ambient air and the wearer’s warmer skin, that was about the extent of what I was impressed with.  Its actual functions are very basic, and almost not worthy to be called a “smart” watch.  While I think Matrix has the start of something really great here with a bodyheat-powered watch that never needs charging (and looks way cool), I think they have a bit of ways to go with the watch’s functionality, which I think they can likely continue to improve with further watch firmware and app updates.  For a retail price of $279.00, to me it may be a bit overpriced, but it is still really unique and cool gadget and worth a look.


Matrix PowerWatch X review – The Gadgeteer


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> And this seems a fair summary
> 
> 
> Matrix PowerWatch X review – The Gadgeteer



Yeah, must say that while what it does do is impressive, calling it a “smart” watch is a bit of a stretch.

I’m more interested in the potential of the underlying tech.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> What's the point of bluetooth, if not to connect to another device?



I mean that if it’s just an occasional synch, you may as well plug the thing in and make the device smaller.

Maybe that’s a middle-aged man’s view of things, but the feature set has an “off grid rugged adventurey” vibe.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> And this seems a fair summary
> 
> 
> Matrix PowerWatch X review – The Gadgeteer


So basically it's a useless piece of shit, which may or may not charge its own battery.
Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I mean that if it’s just an occasional synch, you may as well plug the thing in and make the device smaller.
> 
> Maybe that’s a middle-aged man’s view of things, but the feature set has an “off grid rugged adventurey” vibe.


The 'feature set' has a "just buy a fucking 3 quid watch off ebay and its battery will last longer" vibe.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> So basically it's a useless piece of shit, which may or may not charge its own battery.
> Thanks for clearing that up.


Oh, so you're suddenly believing the words of an online reviewer who has adverts on his site? What happened to all those 'paid shills'?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Oh, so you're suddenly believing the words of an online reviewer who has adverts on his site? What happened to all those 'paid shills'?


I'm believing someone who, quite obviously, isn't a paid shill. He's saying it's a useless piece of shit. Do you have anything else to add that contradicts HIM?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

ETA


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

Fuck me this was hard work. Trying to convince someone that a useless piece of shit is nothing more than a useless piece of shit!


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm believing someone who, quite obviously, isn't a paid shill. He's saying it's a useless piece of shit. Do you have anything else to add that contradicts HIM?


But you said ALL reviewers  were paid shills?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> But you said ALL reviewers  were paid shills?


No I didn't! You made that up! I said, and I quote 
"People who get free tech and make money from reviewing it are by default paid shills"
It isn't my fault that you can't understand that!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

So, editor, are you submitting, and accepting that this amazing piece of kit you posted is nothing more than a fairly useless piece of shit?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> No I didn't! You made that up! I said, and I quote
> "People who get free tech and make money from reviewing it are by default paid shills"
> It isn't my fault that you can't understand that!


But the reviewer was GIVEN FREE TECH and made money from reviewing it. That's* exactl*y your criteria for a "paid shill."


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> So, editor, are you submitting, and accepting that this amazing piece of kit you posted is nothing more than a fairly useless piece of shit?


My opinion has been consistent from the start: it's interesting tech but v1 was flawed and v2 looks more interesting - an opinion echoed by the many reviews I have read.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> But the reviewer was GIVEN FREE TECH and made money from reviewing it. That's exactly your criteria.


That doesn't alter the fact that you lied about what I said. 
Do you admit that you lied about what I said? 
Do you admit it's a useless piece of shit, that's about as good as, and 100X more expensive than an ebay special watch from China?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> My opinion has been consistent from the start: it's interesting tech but v1 was flawed and v2 looks more interesting - an opinion echoed by the many reviews I have read.


Apart from the review you posted, that says it's a useless piece of shit?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> That doesn't alter the fact that you lied about what I said.?


Eh? You've just shot yourself in the foot and now you're trying to hobble on like nothing happened! 

Is this guy a "paid shill" or not?

YES/NO?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Eh? You've just shot yourself in the foot and now you're trying to hobble on like nothing happened!
> 
> Is this guy a "paid shill" or not?
> 
> YES/NO?


Did I say he was? Please point out where I did that!
My mistake... Debating 101... never enter into a battle of wits against an unarmed man!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

Do you admit that it's all but useless, and that you have no idea whether or not it can charge itself?
YES/NO?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Did I say he was? Please point out where I did that!


Gladly. You said:

_"People who get free tech and make money from reviewing it are by default paid shills"_

This person got free tech and made money from reviewing it. Therefore, by your own definition, he is a paid shill.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Do you admit that it's all but useless, and that you have no idea whether or not it can charge itself?
> YES/NO?


Glad to answer it again once you deal with my point.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Gladly.
> 
> You said:
> 
> ...


BY DEFAULT! They don't have to adhere to shilling practices! 
There, I dealt with your point. YOUR TURN!!!!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

It isn't difficult. I say that with any useful features used or added, this watch can't charge itself. Do you disagree? If so, please post evidence to support YOUR claim!


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Bloody hell!

Just get a room or something!!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Bloody hell!
> 
> Just get a room or something!!


Given that both the manufacturer, and a reviewer of editor's choice say that it's useless, I think that conceding that it's shit would be the right thing to do.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Given that both the manufacturer, and a reviewer of editor's choice say that it's useless, I think that conceding that it's shit would be the right thing to do.



No one seems to say it’s useless, just that its uses are limited.

It’s certainly impressive given the charging technique, but as an application of it, I don’t think it’s there yet.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> No one seems to say it’s useless, just that its uses are limited.
> 
> It’s certainly impressive given the charging technique, but as an application of it, I don’t think it’s there yet.


Impressive?  How is it better than a 3 quid watch off ebay, whose battery will last 3 or 4 times longer?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Impressive?  How is it better than a 3 quid watch off ebay, whose battery will last 3 or 4 times longer?



Can you point me towards such a watch?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> No one seems to say it’s useless, just that its uses are limited.
> 
> It’s certainly impressive given the charging technique, but as an application of it, I don’t think it’s there yet.


And that's exactly what I've been saying all along. It's clear v1 was not the finished product and I suspect that v2 will be far from a super-polished watch, but it's clear that their charging tech has immense potential and I wish _that_ was what we were walking about.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> And that's exactly what I've been saying all along. It's clear v1 was not the finished product and I suspect that v2 will be far from a super-polished watch, but it's clear that their charging tech has immense potential and I wish _that_ was what we were walking about.



I think Saul’s initial position was from the perspective of this being a full-fledged smart watch, and he has dug himself in a bit.

Being fair, we have discovered more details as we go, and the functionality that kropotkin was talking about seems some way off, as does the idea of full GPS functionality.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Anyway back to talking about the watch. 

PowerWatch2 has already raised $1.3m on Indiegogo

Smartwatch Powered by You - MATRIX PowerWatch 2

Early prototype video



Their own techie blurb:



> *MATRIX Gemini Thermoelectric Generator*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The finished v2 watch is scheduled for retail in June 2019


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I think Saul’s initial position was from the perspective of this being a full-fledged smart watch, and he has dug himself in a bit.
> 
> Being fair, we have discovered more details as we go, and the functionality that kropotkin was talking about seems some way off, as does the idea of full GPS functionality.


Scheduled for v2 apparently.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Interesting that it doesn’t talk about how they are venting heat.  I expect they are playing their cards close with that.

The rest of it isn’t really saying much in terms of common knowledge.

The fact that they can support push notifications is the most interesting bit.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Scheduled for v2 apparently.


Lol 

I have one that does all of that. Unfortunately its battery only lasts a day, as will V2 of this, if it ever materialises.
It's a con. Anyone who can't see that is a deluded fool


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

Fuck me, it's like talking to 3 year olds or 93 year olds. How can neither of you see that this can't work? Have you no idea what electricity is?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

Fuck it. I'm out of here. I'll leave you two to chat about how this can run on 93mA for the next three million years, and power China at the same time... Ffs


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Fuck me, it's like talking to 3 year olds or 93 year olds. How can neither of you see that this can't work? Have you no idea what electricity is?



To be fair, I’m a bit fuzzy.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

I’m looking forward to V4 so I can top up my Nissan Leaf if I’m caught short...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> To be fair, I’m a bit fuzzy.


I'm going to bookmark this thread and come back to it when V2 doesn't arrive or doesn't work as advertised, and I'm going to laugh, a lot, because it cannot possibly work. It's a scam. V1 was to convince idiots to buy into V2, and V2 is a complete scam!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> I’m looking forward to V4 so I can top up my Nissan Leaf if I’m caught short...


V4 works off the steam off your piss


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> V4 works off the steam off your piss



It is a fine head of steam, but I think it will need a little solar panel too.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

Apologies, 8ball. I didn't mean to be insulting. At least you seem genuinely interested in whether or not it could ever work, as opposed to merely trying to score points.


----------



## keybored (Jan 21, 2019)

Was gonna start a male menopause thread but I guess I'll just lurk this one.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

P.S. in case I wasn't clear, it will never work.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Apologies, 8ball. I didn't mean to be insulting. At least you seem genuinely interested in whether or not it could ever work, as opposed to merely trying to score points.



It only looks like the push notifications that are pushing it, going by that list (the companion apps will run on a phone).

It’s also a lot bigger than the previous model.

The GPS and some other things that were mentioned were never claimed by the manufacturers, and I think the heart rate sensor is on the current model.

I’m not an electronic engineer, but I have a basic understanding about which functions suck up a lot of power.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Oh, just noticed the GPS.
Let’s exclude that one. 

Edit: one “hands on” review said the prototype manages an hour of GPS then it needs a breather.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> It only looks like the push notifications that are pushing it, going by that list (the companion apps will run on a phone).
> 
> It’s also a lot bigger than the previous model.
> 
> ...


I'll be amazed if it manages fully functioning GPS.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Oh, just noticed the GPS.
> Let’s exclude that one.
> 
> Edit: one “hands on” review said the prototype manages an hour of GPS then it needs a breather.


A breather equals a full recharge. 
It's a bullshit scam.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Fuck it. I'm out of here.


Oh wait. You're back already


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## joustmaster (Jan 21, 2019)

I think anyone who reviews free stuff is a shill. 

If I knew that was the case I'd not read thier review.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> Oh wait. You're back already


I came back because I thought you'd left.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> A breather equals a full recharge.
> It's a bullshit scam.



It also says the majority of power will come from the solar if you’re using the GPS.

Some more info:

First Look: Body Heat and Solar Powered Matrix PowerWatch 2 GPS


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> It also says the majority of power will come from the solar if you’re using the GPS.
> 
> Some more info:
> 
> First Look: Body Heat and Solar Powered Matrix PowerWatch 2 GPS


It lies. The majority of power will come from the battery, until it runs flat, then it dies.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> It also says the majority of power will come from the solar if you’re using the GPS.
> 
> Some more info:
> 
> First Look: Body Heat and Solar Powered Matrix PowerWatch 2 GPS


It's a good article that.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> It lies. The majority of power will come from the battery, until it runs flat, then it dies.



Maybe, but the available solar power far outstrips the peltier unit.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Maybe, but the available solar power far outstrips the peltier unit.


Which makes it even more useless.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

editor said:


> It's a good article that.



Yeah, a good bit of detail.
It certainly underlines that the aims are ambitious.  I missed the GPS on the feature list, but that looks like both the USP and what might kill it.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Which makes it even more useless.



I kind of think there can’t be that many ultrarunners out there that can’t get to a charge point once a day or so.

I can see applications for the body heat charging that might be useful in terms of medical devices, though.

Still comes down to the fact that carrying batteries isn’t hard, though.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yeah, a good bit of detail.
> It certainly underlines that the aims are ambitious.  I missed the GPS on the feature list, but that looks like both the USP and what might kill it.


A watch that lasts a single hour is already dead in the water. It's beyond useless. I can think of one single scenario where it might be of some use, and that's to review it for one hour.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Which makes it even more useless.



Well, that’s the thing - it seems it works just fine until you start wanting the GPS, which isn’t on the prototype that the very first reviewers were playing with.

Because of the “body heat” thing, maybe it will come out without that.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> A watch that lasts a single hour is already dead in the water. It's beyond useless. I can think of one single scenario where it might be of some use, and that's to review it for one hour.



60-90 mins in “full on” continuous GPS.  I’ve got myself to places with little bursts of GPS on my phone before.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> 60-90 mins in “full on” continuous GPS.  I’ve got myself to places with little bursts of GPS on my phone before.


I've got myself to work on foot when my car ran out of petrol, but I'd have been mightily pissed off if the car had been advertised as never needing petrol.


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## editor (Jan 21, 2019)

8ball said:


> 60-90 mins in “full on” continuous GPS.  I’ve got myself to places with little bursts of GPS on my phone before.


Me too. It's clear that the watch isn't being advertised as a do-everything sportsperson's dream watch. It's a set of compromises like every other gadget out there and people can decide if its limitations and plus points suits their needs or not. Constantly slagging it off because it can't do absolutely everything as well as its rivals is a fruitless exercise. 

I've had smartwatches for several years and battery life is the biggest pain in the arse. I'd happily lose a few whizz-bang features to gain a watch that doesn't need charging all the time. My Sony smartwatch didn't have GPS but was still able to relay 'next turn' notifications from the phone. Suited me fine.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 22, 2019)

editor said:


> My Sony smartwatch didn't have GPS but was still able to relay 'next turn' notifications from the phone. Suited me fine.


Where was your phone at the time? Let me guess. It was within a few feet of your smartwatch, rendering the watch more useless than this one


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## editor (Jan 22, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> Where was your phone at the time? Let me guess. It was within a few feet of your smartwatch, rendering the watch more useless than this one


 It suited my needs* just fine* so I've absolutely no idea what you're going on about now. It wasn't useless at all, It was exactly what I wanted. 

I thought you'd left this thread anyway? I mean, how many times do you intend repeating the same thing?


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 22, 2019)

editor said:


> It suited my needs* just fine* so I've absolutely no idea what you're going on about now. It wasn't useless at all, It was exactly what I wanted.
> 
> I thought you'd left this thread anyway? I mean, how many times do you intend repeating the same thing?


I only left until I thought you'd given up with your nonsense, but now you're back I'll fuck off again until someone reasonably intelligent posts.


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## editor (Jan 22, 2019)

Saul Goodman said:


> I only left until I thought you'd given up with your nonsense, but now you're back I'll fuck off again until someone reasonably intelligent posts.


And it's another personal insult. Take a day off.


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