# Totally Unemployable



## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

Me, that is. 

Can't even get freelance work.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Me, that is.
> 
> Can't even get freelance work.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Me, that is.
> 
> Can't even get freelance work.


have a sympathy 'like'


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

Too well qualified for low end work, not enough of the right sort of experience for anything else. 

Now my car is off the road and I've only got a ten day grace period on my phone bill before that also goes. 

What I really want to be doing is finishing any of my studies, or writing up one or three of my amazing business plans. Sadly I'm not even fit to stack shelves, having just escaped an abusive relationship and recovered from serious stress related health problems.

All anyone seems to care about is that I'm now overweight at a size 14-16 instead of my previous 10-12. 

Anything I do to improve my employability just serves to frighten off another tranche of possible employers.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

Also:  weird polymath, cheap. Prefer West Midlands or home based.


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## StoneRoad (Mar 30, 2016)

sympathy from me, as well !

can't help, unfortunately.


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## BandWagon (Mar 30, 2016)

I'm sorry for you, but I can't think of anything.


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## izz (Mar 30, 2016)

Would it be worthwhile signing up to one of those freelance websites ? I can't recall the name of it but there is one whereby you can buy someone's programming time and skills by the hour fr'instance ?


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## moon (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> What I really want to be doing is finishing any of my studies



This...
Do coding..


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## BigTom (Mar 30, 2016)

izz said:


> Would it be worthwhile signing up to one of those freelance websites ? I can't recall the name of it but there is one whereby you can buy someone's programming time and skills by the hour fr'instance ?



Find Jobs and Hire skilled Freelancers, at a click - PeoplePerHour.com

there's a few of these websites but that's the one I know


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## izz (Mar 30, 2016)

moon said:


> This...
> Do coding..


AND coding's really excellent fucking fun


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## izz (Mar 30, 2016)

BigTom said:


> Find Jobs and Hire skilled Freelancers, at a click - PeoplePerHour.com
> 
> there's a few of these websites but that's the one I know


Oh thank you, that was the very one I was thinking of.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

BigTom said:


> Find Jobs and Hire skilled Freelancers, at a click - PeoplePerHour.com
> 
> there's a few of these websites but that's the one I know


I'm signed up to them all, and while away many hours fruitlessly trying to get any manner of work from them.

Clearly I'm totally inept.


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 30, 2016)




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## xslavearcx (Mar 30, 2016)

RE the over qualified for some jobs situation - do you have another cv geared towards those kinda jobs omitting anything that might over qualify you?


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## BigTom (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I'm signed up to them all, and while away many hours fruitlessly trying to get any manner of work from them.
> 
> Clearly I'm totally inept.





I doubt many people make proper money off those sites, I had a look at them and decided it wasn't worth it for filming / editing stuff, the offered payments were way too low to do more than pick up a few bits here and there.

Can you lie for jobs you are overqualified for?


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

BigTom said:


> I doubt many people make proper money off those sites, I had a look at them and decided it wasn't worth it for filming / editing stuff, the offered payments were way too low to do more than pick up a few bits here and there.
> 
> Can you lie for jobs you are overqualified for?


Lie and say I've been unemployed since 2010?


There's a difference between proper money and none whatsoever. I make none at all. Fucking zero. Not one penny.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 30, 2016)

Wot's yer skillset?


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> RE the over qualified for some jobs situation - do you have another cv geared towards those kinda jobs omitting anything that might over qualify you?


Yes of course


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## xslavearcx (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Lie and say I've been unemployed since 2010



do you know anybody who could write you a fake /semi fake reference ?I had a boss for an organisation I volunteered for who said I worked the dates I said on my job application (I hadn't) and that I was paid (I wasn't). . .


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## 8115 (Mar 30, 2016)

Agencies?


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## purves grundy (Mar 30, 2016)

Bugger 

Reckon you could be a bit more creative in describing your previous work?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 30, 2016)

Don't know how fucked up your CRB is, but are social care jobs an option for now.


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## BigTom (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Lie and say I've been unemployed since 2010?
> 
> 
> There's a difference between proper money and none whatsoever. I make none at all. Fucking zero. Not one penny.



Say you've been self-employed, something you know about but that isn't connected with the job you're applying for. If you were living in a different town to where you're living now, that's even better as it'll be even harder for anyone to check what you were doing (previous addresses are pretty easy to check) or if you happen to be in interview with someone who is into whatever you've chosen that might know that you're not part of things in that town. As long as you're not going to get tripped up by facebook, linkedin or something like that and you can maintain a bare faced lie in interview, it's not likely you'll get caught out imo.

edit: you need reasons why you no longer want to be self-employed, for me it was being shit at sales, but wanting a regular income is another useable one if being shit at sales would be bad for the role you're applying for.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Wot's yer skillset?


SEO copywriter, digital content writer, wordpress website builder (boss sites but can't hand code a page of hamlet from a picture so I won't get any website building jobs), installing the following os:  Windows - all from '95 to 10, Linux - Ubuntu & Fedora mainly, Android 4 onwards (All inclusive root and stock), 15+ years of office administration and customer service, nearly got my class 2/cat C LGV licence (now have funding opportunity but will have to hitchhike to Somerset and live in the bushes to do it more than likely), online communities, event planning and promotions, ecommerce (have built a self-hosted eticketing solution into a woo commerce and wordpress based site with full Facebook events and online calendar integration (again my very minor coding skills preclude work in this area), tea making expert, reasonable cook, business planning for other people, plus several good start up ideas I won't ever have time to write up, and a few 'rinse and run' patentable ideas to make up for the fact that I'm pushing 40 with no family or savings.

On phone, sorry about layout.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> do you know anybody who could write you a fake /semi fake reference ?I had a boss for an organisation I volunteered for who said I worked the dates I said on my job application (I hadn't) and that I was paid (I wasn't). . .


I have references up the wazoo - but since regardless of tactic I never get to the 'taking up references' stage it matters little.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

BigTom said:


> Say you've been self-employed, something you know about but that isn't connected with the job you're applying for. If you were living in a different town to where you're living now, that's even better as it'll be even harder for anyone to check what you were doing (previous addresses are pretty easy to check) or if you happen to be in interview with someone who is into whatever you've chosen that might know that you're not part of things in that town. As long as you're not going to get tripped up by facebook, linkedin or something like that and you can maintain a bare faced lie in interview, it's not likely you'll get caught out imo.
> 
> edit: you need reasons why you no longer want to be self-employed, for me it was being shit at sales, but wanting a regular income is another useable one if being shit at sales would be bad for the role you're applying for.


I have been self employed - this seems to be a big part of the problem.

I don't need to lie about what I know about, more find some way to tone it down to make me acceptable to an employer. 

And skillset wise missed out BSci Open Degree in engineering and computer science, and NCTJ Diploma in Journalism - both unfinished as I spend all my time failing to find work, and skip diving to survive.


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## izz (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> .... business planning for other people....


This stuck out as potentially worthwhile - I know a number of self employed people and small businesses who could do with a business plan but no idea at all how to write one - have you tried pimping yourself out as doing this ?


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## BigTom (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I have been self employed - this seems to be a big part of the problem.



Some employers don't like it, concerns about working in teams and doing what you're told. Other employers do like it, self-motivated, plenty of initiative... cuts both ways I think. Better than being unemployed though if you want to remove a qualification or two and cover that up with something.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Don't know how fucked up your CRB is, but are social care jobs an option for now.


Nothing major but can't do agency social care - though weirdly I can get X site clearance.


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## xslavearcx (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I have references up the wazoo - but since regardless of tactic I never get to the 'taking up references' stage it matters little.


ah right. for me the problem was massive gaps in my employment history that was the issue.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

izz said:


> This stuck out as potentially worthwhile - I know a number of self employed people and small businesses who could do with a business plan but no idea at all how to write one - have you tried pimping yourself out as doing this ?


My self pimping skills end at the kerbside.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Nothing major but can't do agency social care - though weirdly I can get X site clearance.



Maybe apply direct rather then through and agency ? My CRB is far from clean and I still got a job. 

Many shifts are very flexible so you could swing it that your studying and want something that fits around it.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> ah right. for me the problem was massive gaps in my employment history that was the issue.


I'm a creative writing professional in more ways than one.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Maybe apply direct rather then through and agency ? My CRB is far from clean and I still got a job.
> 
> Many shifts are very flexible so you could swing it that your studying and want something that fits around it.


I'm loathe to work in  hands on healthcare again since I've become prone to infected psoriasis in my middle age. Playing with MRSA is more dangerous than playing with fire.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I'm loathe to work in  hands on healthcare again since I've become prone to infected psoriasis in my middle age. Playing with MRSA is more dangerous than playing with fire.



How about mental kids or special needs?


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## xslavearcx (Mar 30, 2016)

are there many call centres round your area?


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> How about mental kids or special needs?


Won't get permo as they won't think I'll stay, can't get agency as crb not 100% (see post about self pimping ending at the kerbside).


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> are there many call centres round your area?


If I could get a job in one, lol.


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## dessiato (Mar 30, 2016)

1) size 14-16 is not a problem and if it is to you try to get some exercise. Does your local council offer cheap membership at its gym foe unemployed?

2) no one is unemployable. You've yet to find the right place. Patience is difficult but useful here.

I understand what your problem is to some extent. Since my last birthday I'm finding I'm getting fat, slow and it's difficult finding a job I want. As I continue to recover I find myself increasingly bored and frustrated, it'll come good sooner or later for you and for me. We'll make it, we are not going to give up. 

(I'm talking to me as much as you I need a good talking to today.)


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Won't get permo as they won't think I'll stay, can't get agency as crb not 100% (see post about self pimping ending at the kerbside).



Turnover in some places is very high, so may not be as bad as you think. I often find that nice interviewers for a company can be far more forgiving then agencies who just have a blanket "no" policy.

In fact working with CSE cases it could be argued it would give you some empathy.


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## friendofdorothy (Mar 30, 2016)

you sound at a low ebb. But it is difficult to keep up faith in your self when no employer seems to.   

Met my cousin at the weekend who has design BA and tech skills coming out of his ears but is also 40ish and can't get a permanent job. Its tough out there - but it doesn't mean you have no chance. 

Have you tried Lidl and Aldi - both offer living wage (£9+ in london) - I'm thinking of applying to them. 

Btw, unless you are a model, your dress size should be the last thing on anyones mind and if anyone tells you different they should fuck off.  Size 14 sounds slim to me - its less than average after all. You have more important things to worry about.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> SEO copywriter, digital content writer, wordpress website builder (boss sites but can't hand code a page of hamlet from a picture so I won't get any website building jobs), installing the following os:  Windows - all from '95 to 10, Linux - Ubuntu & Fedora mainly, Android 4 onwards (All inclusive root and stock), 15+ years of office administration and customer service, nearly got my class 2/cat C LGV licence (now have funding opportunity but will have to hitchhike to Somerset and live in the bushes to do it more than likely), online communities, event planning and promotions, ecommerce (have built a self-hosted eticketing solution into a woo commerce and wordpress based site with full Facebook events and online calendar integration (again my very minor coding skills preclude work in this area), tea making expert, reasonable cook, business planning for other people, plus several good start up ideas I won't ever have time to write up, and a few 'rinse and run' patentable ideas to make up for the fact that I'm pushing 40 with no family or savings.
> 
> On phone, sorry about layout.



Hey, don't be too down. I think that's an interesting CV (in a good way!)

If you are looking for money that I would recommend getting an IT support job. That would suit your bits and pieces CV. It's a much maligned but diverse job that pays decent money. IT support is a good way of getting into an organisation that you want to work in. There's lots of jobs out there.

Have a butchers on www.jobserve.com

Being a woman _may_ be an advantage as support is a sausage fest and I guess most managers would like the opportunity to get some gender balance in there. 

What sort of IT have you studied? Any networking?


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## DrRingDing (Mar 30, 2016)

Are you Bristol based?


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Hey, don't be too down. I think that's an interesting CV (in a good way!)
> 
> If you are looking for money that I would recommend getting an IT support job. That would suit your bits and pieces CV. It's a much maligned but diverse job that pays decent money. IT support is a good way of getting into an organisation that you want to work in. There's lots of jobs out there.
> 
> ...


My last partner who I just split from destroyed all my networking module books and the Cisco 48 port stand alone router I bought to muck about with, and peed behind my UPS. So no, not as much as I should.

I'm hoping my customer service background could get me a foot in the door somewhere. It can't be any more sausage heavy than acid techno.

The fact that there are lots of jobs doesn't seem to give me a chance of getting one. Not arsed about permanent. I'm at the 'owt will do' stage.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Are you Bristol based?


I fucking wish. 

That said if there were work there I could easily leverage a place to stay until I got paid, and it's commutable from here in theory once I pay off my unpaid car insurance.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 30, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> My last partner who I just split from destroyed all my networking module books and the Cisco 48 port stand alone router I bought to muck about with, and peed behind my UPS. So no, not as much as I should.



Shame he didn't electrocute his cock.

Customer service + IT bits and bobs is all you need to get a 1st line position. The easiest jobs to get are short term contracts, like 1 to 3 month jobbies.

This is shit money....really shite but it'd be a good job to do for 6 months to get you started. IT Administrator  - Bristol - March-30-2016 (EjJWS)


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## DrRingDing (Mar 30, 2016)

If you want someone to look at your CV if you want to go down this route I'm happy to help.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Shame he didn't electrocute his cock.
> 
> Customer service + IT bits and bobs is all you need to get a 1st line position. The easiest jobs to get are short term contracts, like 1 to 3 month jobbies.
> 
> This is shit money....really shite but it'd be a good job to do for 6 months to get you started. IT Administrator  - Bristol - March-30-2016 (EjJWS)


That's pretty shit money for Bristol - less so for those of us out here in t'provinces.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> If you want someone to look at your CV if you want to go down this route I'm happy to help.


I've had a few urban revamps over the years -  work has not ensued.


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## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2016)

So - this business planning idea. How do you even market yourself if people can just get a basic pack from the bank and fill in the numbers?

What I offer is a lot more far reaching. I read rules for fun. The  rules I have been reading for fun most recently are things like how to get stuff like innovation grants. I then tailor the business plan to cover the most possible current and future grant opportunities available within their remit. Expect to see (with luck) a lot more social enterprises and CICs that are actually - wait for it - beneficial to the community at large.

I've also got an awesome business plan that will not only make apprenticeships in skills shortage areas self-funding; they will also be more attractive to teenagers.

Pie in the sky of course since I can't even afford to eat some weeks. Shit you get up to when you're out of work, lol.

I'm also sitting on some journalistically 'hot stories' WRT UK business and the state of, that would only serve to make me 1000 times more unemployable.

And never mind my other social enterprise idea that involves bringing  very heavy baselines back to the masses.


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## Fez909 (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> So - this business planning idea. How do you even market yourself if people can just get a basic pack from the bank and fill in the numbers?
> 
> What I offer is a lot more far reaching. I read rules for fun. The  rules I have been reading for fun most recently are things like how to get stuff like innovation grants. I then tailor the business plan to cover the most possible current and future grant opportunities available within their remit. Expect to see (with luck) a lot more social enterprises and CICs that are actually - wait for it - beneficial to the community at large.
> 
> ...


Set yourself up a snazzy website advertising your skills. Say the above, but in business speak. Set up a Facebook business page and see what happens. It's very easy to do both of these things now, and people seem to get a lot of enquiries from Facebook. Lots of people starting their own businesses these days, it's likely some of your Facebook "friends" are thinking the same. They might see your page and it gives them the push to do something about it.

Expand from there.

You can build a website really easily these days, and as long as it's trendy looking (easy to do with free Bootstrap templates), you'll look pro if anyone clicks through from your Facebook page. Facebook for awareness, website for confidence you're the real deal. Sorted


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## Supine (Mar 31, 2016)

Linkedin.

Make sure your CV doesn't look 'creatively written'.

Confidence - important to help persuade recruiters.

That's my 3p worth


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## equationgirl (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> So - this business planning idea. How do you even market yourself if people can just get a basic pack from the bank and fill in the numbers?
> 
> What I offer is a lot more far reaching. I read rules for fun. The  rules I have been reading for fun most recently are things like how to get stuff like innovation grants. I then tailor the business plan to cover the most possible current and future grant opportunities available within their remit. Expect to see (with luck) a lot more social enterprises and CICs that are actually - wait for it - beneficial to the community at large.
> 
> ...


There should be some kind of local enterprise/business support agency where you are who should be able to support you. Can you demonstrate any success on helping people get innovation funding? Be warned this is a competitive niche sector and many grants do not cover preproposal costs, especially if the application is not successful.  how will your business make money in those cases?

A local enterprise agency should be able to help with your own ideas re self-funding apprenticeships.


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## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> There should be some kind of local enterprise/business support agency where you are who should be able to support you. Can you demonstrate any success on helping people get innovation funding? Be warned this is a competitive niche sector and many grants do not cover preproposal costs, especially if the application is not successful.  how will your business make money in those cases?
> 
> A local enterprise agency should be able to help with your own ideas re self-funding apprenticeships.


All of them will want a business plan. I barely have time to draw breath living hand to mouth. Back to needing a job of any sort before the phone and stuff get cut off.


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## ToriAmos (Mar 31, 2016)

If you are living hand to mouth then you have to ask the hand to help you. Make a list of your skills and then think about how you can get off your arse


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## Ax^ (Mar 31, 2016)

you got a driving licenses .. 


might not be the job you want long term but could find one using that


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## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

ToriAmos said:


> If you are living hand to mouth then you have to ask the hand to help you. Make a list of your skills and then think about how you can get off your arse


Excuse me are you implying that this is down to laziness?


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## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

Ax^ said:


> you got a driving licenses ..
> 
> 
> might not be the job you want long term but could find one using that


Yer right, if I were a bloke.


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

Are you getting shortlisted or I terviewed for anything?

If not it would suggest that your CV/applications aren't msefging the person spec. (official or otherwise) for the jobs you're app!ying for.

So there's two sides you can come at this from:

1) You can change your CV etc. If you're applying for a diverse rangse of roles, do make sure that you have an equally diverse range of CVs that just focus on that specific role and how you meet the person spec for that specific role. Get rid of anything superfluous.

2) ...or you could change the roles your applying for and very find those that fit your CV better. Probably far harder tbh.

I know you've probably done all this before but in the longer term it's the only real answer.

Write up all your skills, experience and qualifications in one long "master" CV, pick out the most likely roles from it and write up an edited and focussed CV - and "statement" - for each. Separately. Ensure that its written concisely and following the whole STAR thing.

It'll take some time to do this properly. I appreciate it doesn't solve your more pressing material needs.


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## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

For fucks sake I have changed my CV repeatedly over he last few years, as well as every other thing about my job search. It would appear that's it's me personally that will not be finding work.


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> For fucks sake I have changed my CV repeatedly over he last few years, as well as every other thing about my job search. It would appear that's it's me personally that will not be finding work.



It's not just about changing it though, it's about focussing it and ensuring its targeted. It's not just about putting stuff in, it's about taking stuff out.

Maybe you've done that already. You'll still need to do again at regular intervals. 

Are you getting shortlisted?


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

...because once you've sorted out your CV to the point it's getting you regular interviews and you're still getting nowhere then it might be about you personally.

[says from personal experience ]


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## StoneRoad (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it - how mobile are you ? Could you move to another area with almost no notice for effectively min wage work.

Had an idea - see PM


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> For fucks sake I have changed my CV repeatedly over he last few years, as well as every other thing about my job search. It would appear that's it's me personally that will not be finding work.




...and about having a range of CVs tailored to different roles. Again you may already do this, but it took me a long time to come to terms with this one.


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## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

chilango said:


> ...and about having a range of CVs tailored to different roles. Again you may already do this, but it took me a long time to come to terms with this one.


I have that.


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I have that.



Cool. 

I don't know your industries but do you have an idea which are more and which are less competitive? 

Do you know what sort of "profile" employers have in their heads for their ideal candidate? Is there something about you (and your profile) that jars with this? I know that for some roles I apply for I don't fit the profile. So that no matter how good my CV is I'm doomed when I walk into the interview and open my mouth it's game over already. That happens. Can it be planned for and mitigated? I dunno.


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## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

chilango said:


> Cool.
> 
> I don't know your industries but do you have an idea which are more and which are less competitive?
> 
> Do you know what sort of "profile" employers have in their heads for their ideal candidate? Is there something about you (and your profile) that jars with this? I know that for some roles I apply for I don't fit the profile. So that no matter how good my CV is I'm doomed when I walk into the interview and open my mouth it's game over already. That happens. Can it be planned for and mitigated? I dunno.


I don't fit any employers assumptions or images of potential employees so regardless of how I spin it I'm not getting   owt.


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## moomoo (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Yer right, if I were a bloke.



Eh? I'm not a bloke but I drive for a living.


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

I do know that when I was really struggling to get back to work, applying for roles "below" my experience/qualifications was spectacularly unsuccessful. Only got one, solitary, interview out of a tonne of applications. Nowhere near getting even that one job.

What I had to do was what I suggested above. I thought my CV was fine. It wasn't. I spent all day, every day for about a week reading all the CV books in the library and writing it word by word from scratch and writing 2 or 3 different ones for different roles/employers.

I stripped out all the superfluous stuff that is kept in thing it was "interesting" or added to my experience or filled in gaps or whatever.

I got rid of everything older than 10 years (apart from major qualifications). And kept stuff older than 5 years to a bare minimum.

I got rid of everything that want going help me meet the specific spec for the specific role. Redacted both my qualifications and work history (no lying, just omitting) so that only directly relevant stuff remained.

I wrote it to the STAR formula. Quantified it. Focussed on how I'd benefit the employer. Not on how good I was.

It was hard work and took days of solid writing and editing and was eventually unrecognisable from my previous "fine" CV.

I started getting interviews. For very competitive jobs. Some of the best jobs in my sector. (Though still nothing from the jobs "lower down", not a peep,)

But I was still getting nowhere.

Partly through my own interview performance (which I've still to properly sort out).

Partly because I want matching the profile in the employers head.

...and partly because it's fucking hard out there.

Eventually I got something.

I've already had to go through the whole re-writing process again as my role has changed, my experience has changed, the next jobs I'll apply for have changed.

...and I'm very experienced and very well qualified for my industry. Yet, it still a soul destroying and seemingly impossible task to get s sniff of a job.


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I don't fit any employers assumptions or images of potential employees so regardless of how I spin it I'm not getting   owt.



What do you think they are? Can you change to fit them? Do you want to change to fit them? Is it just not possible (age, gender, class etc.). 

Is this showing through via your CV?


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## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

chilango said:


> What do you think they are? Can you change to fit them? Do you want to change to fit them? Is it just not possible (age, gender, class etc.).
> 
> Is this showing through via your CV?


Most of the stuff I'm good at is largely considered 'men's work'. I'm also female and still at an age where I might run off and have sprogs at the drop of a hat (or so employers think - I really don't want kids and have a coil).


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

Oh and fwiw stuff_it I'm not trying to say "do this and you'll get a job". 

Definitely not. 

I was just saying that IME it's helpful to be properly analytical. Eliminate as many possible reasons for not getting a job as you can. Anything that's within your power to change, change and then see what's left. 

I've got graphs going back years breaking down my applications by sector, by role etc. I've noted when I've re-written CVs etc. so I can spot patterns etc.

Ok, I've probably gone a bit overboard. But when I was sending off dozens, no hundreds, of applications and getting nowhere I got pretty desperate.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

chilango said:


> Oh and fwiw stuff_it I'm not trying to say "do this and you'll get a job".
> 
> Definitely not.
> 
> ...


Lol - I hope you have A/B testing on your CV.


----------



## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Most of the stuff I'm good at is largely considered 'men's work'. I'm also female and still at an age where I might run off and have sprogs at the drop of a hat (or so employers think - I really don't want kids and have a coil).



Yeah 

Perhaps a focus should be on finding slightly more "progressively minded" employers in the industry? and going for those jobs full on rather than with employers you know in advance are going to prejudiced? 

Not easy, I'm sure.


----------



## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Lol - I hope you have A/B testing on your CV.



A/B testing?


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

chilango said:


> A/B testing?


Basically when you try two versions of something (e.g. a marketing email, user interface, new type of wash powder) and then statistically compare the results of each option and produce a report on it.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

StoneRoad said:


> stuff_it - how mobile are you ? Could you move to another area with almost no notice for effectively min wage work.
> 
> Had an idea - see PM


Not permo move but I'd be more than happy to work away for weeks at a time on a permanent basis for the job you sent. Currently my flat in the East Midlands is empty and paid for by tax credits (having had to move away due to a violent partner), and I'm not in a position where I would need to pay rent where I'm staying in Brum unless I could afford to. I'll have to give up the flat soon anyway, but like I said the rent is covered at the moment and my earnings so low that even starting a job it would be a non-issue for several months.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

Hah, apparently not that unemployable. Thanks StoneRoad 

Now just somehow need to extract enough money from the universe to get there.


----------



## moon (Mar 31, 2016)

Good Stuff!(it)  Maybe there can be a skillset thread here for other people in a similar position..


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Most of the stuff I'm good at is largely considered 'men's work'. I'm also female and still at an age where I might run off and have sprogs at the drop of a hat (or so employers think - I really don't want kids and have a coil).


So? Employers cannot ask questions relating to having children at interview. 

Do you have your age or date of birth on your cv? If so, take it off. No assumptions can be made if your age isn't apparent.

I think you're making a lot of assumptions about employers, to be honest. Have you tried contacting these companies to find out any feedback on your applications ?

Also, I know you said you've been skipdiving but are there any foodbanks nearby which could help you out for a bit?


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> So? Employers cannot ask questions relating to having children at interview.
> 
> Do you have your age or date of birth on your cv? If so, take it off. No assumptions can be made if your age isn't apparent.
> 
> ...


Nearly all crappy jobs ask your DOB, and it can always be deduced from things like GCSE dates. Looks like I may have a new job anyway thanks to the Urban massive, and of course StoneRoad .

Food banks suck for sulphite allergies. So much of it is tinned or otherwise processed.


----------



## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> So? Employers cannot ask questions relating to having children at interview.
> 
> Do you have your age or date of birth on your cv? If so, take it off. No assumptions can be made if your age isn't apparent.
> 
> ...



Gender and age are near impossible to hide in a job application, if an employee were to be wary of hiring females of a certain age (and I've met some who'll admit it off the record) they can easily sift them out in the pre-interview skim.


...which if age/gender/class whatever is suspected as having as negative impact upon your job hunting (as I've suspected in my own case in the past) it's well worth trying to reduce and isolate all other potential negatives.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 31, 2016)

You didn't answer my question about your grant success rate, stuff_it.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 31, 2016)

chilango said:


> Gender and age are near impossible to hide in a job application, if an employee were to be wary of hiring females of a certain age (and I've met some who'll admit it off the record) they can easily sift them out in the pre-interview skim.


Depends. Yes, it can be deduced by looking at exam stuff etc but not everyone has a predictable or linear career history so it is a guess. And if a reasonably large number of applications are received there may not be the time to do an age estimate on every one. Not to mention the ageism aspect is now illegal.

Does it still happen? I suspect it does, however I don't think it's that prevalent else very few women would ever get or change jobs, especially anybody below the age of (say) 50.


----------



## chilango (Mar 31, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> Depends. Yes, it can be deduced by looking at exam stuff etc but not everyone has a predictable or linear career history so it is a guess. And if a reasonably large number of applications are received there may not be the time to do an age estimate on every one. Not to mention the ageism aspect is now illegal.
> 
> Does it still happen? I suspect it does, however I don't think it's that prevalent else very few women would ever get or change jobs, especially anybody below the age of (say) 50.



yeah. It's only one example though of a negative mental profile that an employer may have. I know of others. Handed a pile of CVs to cull these things can come into play, consciously or not.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> You didn't answer my question about your grant success rate, stuff_it.


None yet as not yet applied for any. I'm hoping to change that in the next couple of months, as I've thouroughly read the instructions.


----------



## Cloo (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I'm signed up to them all, and while away many hours fruitlessly trying to get any manner of work from them.
> 
> Clearly I'm totally inept.


I signed up to one when I was made redundant and never heard shit, so it's no reflection on you. I imagine there are a core of people with certain skills in demand, and no one is interested in the rest. Sorry you're feeling so low.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 31, 2016)

Cloo said:


> I signed up to one when I was made redundant and never heard shit, so it's no reflection on you. I imagine there are a core of people with certain skills in demand, and no one is interested in the rest. Sorry you're feeling so low.


Many thanks for your sympathies. Please read the ret of the thread which is trying it's best to have a happy ending. 

My only really super-saleable agency skills were being able to spell in Latin, audio type, and (thanks to my mum's abysmal handwriting) untangle written notes from doctors. Once I had a caution on my CRB my use as a medical secretary was pretty much over permo since it's an enhanced check. TBH it was all over once I moved to Wales for three years, since I would have needed to be equally adept in both English and Welsh.


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 31, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> For fucks sake I have changed my CV repeatedly over he last few years, as well as every other thing about my job search. It would appear that's it's me personally that will not be finding work.



I change my CV for every job I apply for. You're meant to. Blag em. They're trying to rip you off, play the game and get what you can.


----------



## xslavearcx (Mar 31, 2016)

RE the whole thing making it neigh on impossible to hide things like age gender etc - I really find this trend of having photos at the top of cvs really depressing .. .

congrats for getting a job sorted stuff it


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> RE the whole thing making it neigh on impossible to hide things like age gender etc - I really find this trend of having photos at the top of cvs really depressing .. .
> 
> congrats for getting a job sorted stuff it


Don't think I've ever included a photo.  sod that.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 1, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> Don't think I've ever included a photo.  sod that.


Lots do want your LinkedIn profile though.


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Lots do want your LinkedIn profile though.



...and many will have someone check your social media profiles.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> ...and many will have someone check your social media profiles.


You can control who sees those though


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> You can control who sees those though



Yes, you can.

The point is more that employers are looking though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> RE the whole thing making it neigh on impossible to hide things like age gender etc - I really find this trend of having photos at the top of cvs really depressing .. .
> 
> congrats for getting a job sorted stuff it


You should never put your photo on a cv


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Yes, you can.
> 
> The point is more that employers are looking though.


Which is fine if they can't find you


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> RE the whole thing making it neigh on impossible to hide things like age gender etc - I really find this trend of having photos at the top of cvs really depressing .. .
> 
> congrats for getting a job sorted stuff it


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Which is fine if they can't find you



Is it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Is it?


yeh i wouldn't want my employer finding my cv on a job site.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Is it?


Yes. Wouldn't you rather any potential employer not be able to see pics of you on holiday, red-faced and having fun? It's none of their business


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes. Wouldn't you rather any potential employer not be able to see pics of you on holiday, red-faced and having fun? It's none of their business


otoh it would be nice to show a potential employer you're not all stay at home and watch tv.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> otoh it would be nice to show a potential employer you're not all stay at home and watch tv.


Yeah right


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes. Wouldn't you rather any potential employer not be able to see pics of you on holiday, red-faced and having fun? It's none of their business



I'd rather they weren't looking in the first place.

I'd rather that stuff that they might look for in social media profiles wasn't part of what they wrestle looking for in candidates.

I'd rather they focussed on having an application process that was efficient and transparent with a proper person spec. rather than dubious prejudice and bias.

Being able to hide (or engineer) your social media presence doesn't solve any of that.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

I'd rather they didn't either, but they do, so it's best to either not use social media at all, or to hide your profile to the public


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I'd rather they didn't either, but they do, so it's best to either not use social media at all, or to hide your profile to the public


or to have such a common name that they'll never find you


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> or to have such a common name that they'll never find you


I have one of those, thankfully


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> or to have such a common name that they'll never find you



I just don't use my Surname as it's very unusual.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I just don't use my Surname as it's very unusual.


So do you just use one name, like Sting or Madonna?


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

...or to make sure that they find what you want them to find.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> ...or to make sure that they find what you want them to find.


Why bother?


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Why bother?



Because, like it or not (and I don't like it) it's becoming part of the recruitment process. It is an additional opportunity to present yourself in the way that you want. It is something you have control over.


----------



## xslavearcx (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> You should never put your photo on a cv



I don't. but it seems to be a more common phenomena than ever. this makes me uneasy.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 1, 2016)

I have a totally locked down "straight" fb profile I never touch.


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> I don't. but it seems to be a more common phenomena than ever. this makes me uneasy.



It's commonplace overseas.


----------



## xslavearcx (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> It's commonplace overseas.


the more common it gets the more it will seem like you have got something to hide if you don't conform to that practice. 

Maybe I'd feel less uneasy about that if I was more photogenic.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Because, like it or not (and I don't like it) it's becoming part of the recruitment process. It is an additional opportunity to present yourself in the way that you want. It is something you have control over.


But wouldn't it better if you just didn't let them into the private side of your life in the first place? 
Are you suggesting people make fake profiles?  How? Hiring a fake wholesome family for professional studio photographs to put on a fictitious Facebook profile?


----------



## moon (Apr 1, 2016)

You could always just grab a photo from google search..


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

moon said:


> You could always just grab a photo from google search..


Eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Eh?


you search and you grab a photo from the results. after checking they're not a murderer etc i suppose


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> But wouldn't it better if you just didn't let them into the private side of your life in the first place?
> Are you suggesting people make fake profiles?  How? Hiring a fake wholesome family for professional studio photographs to put on a fictitious Facebook profile?



I'm not letting them into the "private side" of my life. I'm letting them see what I want them to see. Not fake stuff either. I'm wholesome enough in real life to be honest!


----------



## izz (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Because, like it or not (and I don't like it) it's becoming part of the recruitment process. It is an additional opportunity to present yourself in the way that you want. It is something you have control over.


I absolutely agree with this. I think at some point in the future you'll be regarded with suspicion if you don't have some kind of online presence, to the point where 'online presences' will be available for purchase.

I deplore this but think its definitely on its way.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> you search and you grab a photo from the results. after checking they're not a murderer etc i suppose


For what purpose?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> For what purpose?


so you don't find you've nicked a murderer's picture of course


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Why would  you put someone else's photo on your cv? You've lost me here!
You shouldn't put one on at all!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Why would  you put someone else's photo on your cv? You've lost me here!
> You shouldn't put on one at all!


i agree. but you seemed discombobulated by moon's post, which i thought self-explanatory


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i agree. but you seemed discombobulated by moon's post, which i thought self-explanatory


Not really. Why would  you put someone else's photo on your cv?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Not really. Why would  you put someone else's photo on your cv?


i wouldn't.


----------



## moon (Apr 1, 2016)

And I cant be bothered to explain


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i wouldn't.


No one should! And putting someone else's photo on your cv would be even stupider that putting your own on


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

moon said:


> And I cant be bothered to explain


You'd never get the job if you used someone else's photo!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> No one should! And putting someone else's photo on your cv would be even stupider that putting your own on


perhaps you should reread the thread, as i think you'll find moon's saying you could just grab a photo off the internet as a 'wholesome family' or whatnot for some pristine facebook a/c.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> You'd never get the job if you used someone else's photo!


unless you looked like them


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps you should reread the thread, as i think you'll find moon's saying you could just grab a photo off the internet as a 'wholesome family' or whatnot for some pristine facebook a/c.


Aaaarrggh OK,  but you shouldn't do this in the first place.


----------



## moon (Apr 1, 2016)

You might get an interview though.. then say it must have been some mistake on their part.. no-one ever back checks these things..
And I meant for the CV


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 1, 2016)

Moon's last CV photo....


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Moon's last CV photo....


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> unless you looked like them


But then I'd never get a job


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> But then I'd never get a jobView attachment 85265


you think there's no money in being a harry hewitt lookalike?


----------



## izz (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> But then I'd never get a jobView attachment 85265


y'wouldn't need one, y'could just rock up anywhere and freeload.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

moon said:


> You might get an interview though.. then say it must have been some mistake on their part.. no-one ever back checks these things..
> And I meant for the CV


yeah right, you'd be shown the door as soon as you turned up


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> yeah right, you'd be shown the door as soon as you turned up


you're made for life, just need to kit yourself out with some army togs and advertise in some royalist magazine. no need to have a snide pop at poor moon


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> no need to have a snide pop at poor moon


oh the irony. 
i wasn't being snide - i was correctly pointing out the folly of including someone else's photo on your cv


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> oh the irony.
> i wasn't being snide - i was correctly pointing out the folly of including someone else's photo on your cv


yeh you'd *never* *ever* be snide about someone would you


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh you'd *never* *ever* be snide about someone would you


people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> yeah right, you'd be shown the door as soon as you turned up



Perhaps.

Though if we're talking about employers with a prejudice based upon race/gender/age etc. It'd be quite telling that they they (for example) invited the pretty young white girl for interview but were dismayed to discover it was a middle aged Asian man.


(Obviously IRL they'd have the "deception" get out card, but still...)


----------



## moon (Apr 1, 2016)

It's actually common practice to put a fake name on a CV if your real name is too 'exotic'. I don't see why that can't extend to sending in a fake photo..


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

moon said:


> It's actually common practice to put a fake name on a CV if your real name is too 'exotic'. I don't see why that can't extend to sending in a fake photo..


you'd get caught out for that too, surely? they'd need NI details.
Again, you shouldn't be putting your photo on your cv in the first place


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones


i'm not, i am always direct. you, by contrast...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> So do you just use one name, like Sting or Madonna?



Just my initial


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not, i am always direct. you, by contrast...


oh cock off


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> oh cock off


zzzzz


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> you'd get caught out for that too, surely? they'd need NI details.
> Again, you shouldn't be putting your photo on your cv in the first place



If you, again for for example, applied for the post of librarian at the British International School of Goa, you'd probably be required to include a photo with your CV.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> If you, again for for example, applied for the post of librarian at the British International School of Goa, you'd probably be required to include a photo with your CV.


not to mention evidence of being a librarian


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> If you, again for for example, applied for the post of librarian at the British International School of Goa, you'd probably be required to include a photo with your CV.


why? 

i personally wouldn't apply for any job that asked me to provide a photo, unless i was going for acting, modelling (ha!), lookalike or extras work


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> not to mention evidence of being a librarian



Nah. That's not how it works.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Nah. That's not how it works.


if you apply for a post which requires you to have specific skills and/or experience it's generally accepted that you provide evidence of those skills/experience whether (in the hypothetical you posed) in the cv or in the covering letter. if you want the job, that is.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> if you apply for a post which requires you to have specific skills and/or experience it's generally accepted that you provide evidence of those skills/experience whether (in the hypothetical you posed) in the cv or in the covering letter. if you want the job, that is.


you only provide evidence on request, ime.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> you only provide evidence on request, ime.


 when you apply for a job, do you a) demonstrate you meet the person specification on the application form or cv/covering letter, or b) say 'i'll give you evidence when you request it'?


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> when you apply for a job, do you a) demonstrate you meet the person specification on the application form or cv/covering letter, or b) say 'i'll give you evidence when you request it'?


you state your qualifications on your cv and provide evidence of them if requested. i've only been asked to once.


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> why?
> 
> i personally wouldn't apply for any job that asked me to provide a photo, unless i was going for acting, modelling (ha!), lookalike or extras work



It is the norm in many other countries. Like it or not.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> It is the norm in many other countries. Like it or not.



thankfully it isn't in this. you are generally not advised to put your photo on your CV. 
I was told it was a big no-no when i was on the dole


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> if you apply for a post which requires you to have specific skills and/or experience it's generally accepted that you provide evidence of those skills/experience whether (in the hypothetical you posed) in the cv or in the covering letter. if you want the job, that is.



Well, yeah.

I was commenting on the somewhat dubious at times recruitment processes in certain establishments.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Well, yeah.
> 
> I was commenting on the somewhat dubious at times recruitment processes in certain establishments.


nepotism, simony and so on


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> you state your qualifications on your cv and provide evidence of them if requested. i've only been asked to once.



You should be asked every time. That's shoddy practice.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> you state your qualifications on your cv and provide evidence of them if requested. i've only been asked to once.


i've been asked to every time i've had an interview in the last 10 years. just produce the last couple of degree certs, rather than beinging them all out tho.


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> thankfully it isn't in this. you are generally not advised to put your photo on your CV.
> I was told it was a big no-no when i was on the dole




It is here.

...but it isn't in other places.

To the point that you can find advice on the internet about CV creation that includes photos. Important for British students/job seekers to be aware of this before blindly following online instructions.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> You should be asked every time. That's shoddy practice.


really? the only time i was asked was when i was applying for PGCE/Schools Direct. I couldn't prove it, so I didn't proceed any further. You have to pay silly money to exam boards to get GCSE or A Level certs. And I couldn't get a cert from my uni, just a letter.


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> you state your qualifications on your cv and provide evidence of them if requested. i've only been asked to once.



...and then this proof should be kept in the school's Single Central Record. If that isn't shipshape it's an automatic inspection fail.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 1, 2016)

The only -- literally only -- thing I will say in favour of photos is that when you are interviewing a lot of people, it is easy to forget who was who and it is handy to have the reminder of the face that went along with the CV.

That's not a good enough reason to include them, but it is _a_ reason.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> really? the only time i was asked was when i was applying for PGCE/Schools Direct. I couldn't prove it, so I didn't proceed any further. You have to pay silly money to exam boards to get GCSE or A Level certs. And I couldn't get a cert from my uni, just a letter.


surprised letter not enough, you may want to get a transcript from the university tho.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

kabbes said:


> The only -- literally only -- thing I will say in favour of photos is that when you are interviewing a lot of people, it is easy to forget who was who and it is handy to have the reminder of the face that went along with the CV.
> 
> That's not a good enough reason to include them, but it is _a_ reason.


ime there's generally 6-8 people interviewed for a post


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> surprised letter not enough, you may want to get a transcript from the university tho.


A letter was enough


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> A letter was enough


i'm sorry, i thought you said you had trouble proving your qualifications so didn't take things further


----------



## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> really? the only time i was asked was when i was applying for PGCE/Schools Direct. I couldn't prove it, so I didn't proceed any further. You have to pay silly money to exam boards to get GCSE or A Level certs. And I couldn't get a cert from my uni, just a letter.



Really it's only "professional qualifications" that matter though. GCSEs and A levels are largely going to be irrelevant. But if they're asking for qualified teachers or qualified librarian or graduates or whatever then they need to have evidence that their recruits meet this requirement. 

I've always, always been asked to bring originals of degree, PGCE etc. with me to interview. They've almost always been photocopied there and then, regardless of whether I've been offered the job or not.

Schools cannot afford to be sloppy with their SCR.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm sorry, i thought you said you had trouble proving your qualifications so didn't take things further


they still wanted certs for the other qualifications.
i didn't go on with it for many other reasons too, mind. glad i didn't


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## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Really it's only "professional qualifications" that matter though. GCSEs and A levels are largely going to be irrelevant. But if they're asking for qualified teachers or qualified librarian or graduates or whatever then they need to have evidence that their recruits meet this requirement.


I just have a BA - no school has asked me to prove it


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## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> ...and then this proof should be kept in the school's Single Central Record. If that isn't shipshape it's an automatic inspection fail.


schools chuck their records out with abandon.


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## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> schools chuck their records out with abandon.



Wouldn't surprise me.

But they risk failing Ofsted over their SCR and getting done for breaching data protection.

They also need to have a data retention schedule.

Managers can be held personally liable for this  stuff if they're negligent. #justsayin'


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## chilango (Apr 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I just have a BA - no school has asked me to prove it



Wonder what they keep on your file then?


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 1, 2016)

chilango said:


> Wonder what they keep on your file then?


A dirty mug and a pot with a dead house  plant probably.


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## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> A dirty mug and a pot with a dead house  plant probably.


...or a plate with a dirty knife and some crumbs?


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## dilute micro (Apr 3, 2016)

Stuff_it is going to be fine.


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## StoneRoad (Apr 5, 2016)

?


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## dilute micro (Apr 5, 2016)

StoneRoad said:


> ?


No one but US presidential candidates are totally unemployable.  I fall into the same camp that stuff_it does which is the one that means having to put in more work than others to get hired.  I got laid off right at the beginning of the recession and it took a long time to get noticed. It starts to play with your mind and you begin to doubt yourself.  The thing to understand is that very often it comes down to superficial things that gets someone hired.  Sometimes you're no better on paper than the others but you have something in common with the hiring manager and they see themselves in you.....so you get hired.


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## extra dry (Apr 6, 2016)

We have to take photocopies of all documents, that includes degree passport teaching qualifications.  Also a passport sized photo to go on each application.


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## Pingu (Apr 7, 2016)

photoshop ftw


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## Sapphireblue (Apr 7, 2016)

i've worked for a couple of big companies and it was standard practice to take photocopies of your passport and exam certificates on acceptance of the job along with providing references.
i have a feeling i even had to bring in A level certs as well as degree. luckily i kept them safe!


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2016)

It would be a dream job if in fact it paid. 



Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## StoneRoad (Apr 11, 2016)

stuff_it see pm reply


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2016)

Tbh I'd expect more reply than I've got so far. StoneRoad

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## StoneRoad (Apr 11, 2016)

As I wasn't in the workshop last week, as I said, I need to talk with t'boss, but I don't run the payroll.


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## equationgirl (Apr 11, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> Tbh I'd expect more reply than I've got so far. StoneRoad
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


Um. The guy's really gone out on a limb for you - that's a bit rude. I'm not saying be eternally grateful but if someone has done you a massive favour, a little thanks goes a long way.


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## stuff_it (Apr 12, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> Um. The guy's really gone out on a limb for you - that's a bit rude. I'm not saying be eternally grateful but if someone has done you a massive favour, a little thanks goes a long way.


I'm not going into too much detail here


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## free spirit (Apr 12, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> I change my CV for every job I apply for. You're meant to. Blag em. They're trying to rip you off, play the game and get what you can.


this, and ensure that you include an brief outline of how you meet every criteria of the job description. Make it easy for the recruiter to tick the boxes they need to tick in order to put you in the interview pile and not the reject pile. It really is a box ticking exercise at the CV stage.

I think I've been interviewed for nearly every job I ever applied for when approaching the applications in this way. Spend 2-3 days on a single application you really want and get the interview rather than banging out 10 in the same time would be my advice.

I've also been on the other side of that fence quite a bit, and there really is some absolute dross churned out by people taking the approach of applying for everything they can, so a carefully thought out, well written application that clearly and concisely leads the recruiter through all the boxes they need to tick to be able to recommend someone for interview really stands out.

Also, cover letters / emails are vital, not like this one I had a few weeks back.



> Hi its xxx I rang earlier about any jobs goin and was asked to send cv but haveing trouble up loading it so thought would send email. I have over 2 years experience fittin solar (roofing side) commercial and residential.  Im currently working for xxx but work is queit at the minute and been told no work. Im able to come for interview or nedting asap


Which unfortunately is one of the better job application emails I've had, some people really don't have a clue how to make a good first impression. If they can't be bothered to at least get someone to proof read their email, then I can't be bothered to read their CV. First impressions matter.


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## StoneRoad (Apr 12, 2016)

sent stuffs another pm this morning (I'm doing a massive tender and this post is over my coffee break - I don't have time to mess about today, or even this week).
Need to sort this out, but as I said, I don't do the payroll.
I've tried to be an intermediary here and helpful to everyone, but job/not job are t'boss's prerogative, and not my decision.


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## equationgirl (Apr 12, 2016)

free spirit said:


> this, and ensure that you include an brief outline of how you meet every criteria of the job description. Make it easy for the recruiter to tick the boxes they need to tick in order to put you in the interview pile and not the reject pile. It really is a box ticking exercise at the CV stage.
> 
> I think I've been interviewed for nearly every job I ever applied for when approaching the applications in this way. Spend 2-3 days on a single application you really want and get the interview rather than banging out 10 in the same time would be my advice.
> 
> ...


They might be dyslexic and might not have anybody who can proofread. It's not the worst one I've ever seen.


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## free spirit (Apr 12, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> They might be dyslexic and might not have anybody who can proofread. It's not the worst one I've ever seen.


it's far from the worst I've seen as well, just the first I came across in my emails. In the age of spell checkers there's not much excuse for that though IMO from someone who's supposed to be wanting a job. 

I'm sure Stuffits doing the applications a damn sight better than that, just posted it up as an example of how bad some people are when just banging applications out.


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## StoneRoad (Apr 12, 2016)

jc+ advisors and job search directions can have the result of people being forced (under threat of sanctions) to make a specified number of "applications" per day/week, naturally this could bring quantity not quality into the equation.


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## stuff_it (Apr 13, 2016)

StoneRoad said:


> jc+ advisors and job search directions can have the result of people being forced (under threat of sanctions) to make a specified number of "applications" per day/week, naturally this could bring quantity not quality into the equation.


People actually have written an app for that. Weirdly enough if people are sent to sit in a place and apply for jobs the computers there are notoriously un-useable.


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## stuff_it (Apr 18, 2016)

john smith said:


> sympathy from me but i can't do anything for you.,.,sorryy


Interview for a well paid temp job tomorrow, so fingers crossed.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 18, 2016)

Fingers crossed for you


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## stuff_it (Jul 8, 2016)

Fat chance of course.  Have given up even trying to get employment, rather thancontract or freelance. 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## stuff_it (Feb 17, 2017)

dilute micro said:


> Stuff_it is going to be fine.


Well I'm still unemployed. Have failed six interviews since I last posted on this thread, applied for around 120 jobs, and managed to claw in around £80 in freelance work. I failed my HGV retest twice as well. 

I've now moved to a different area of the country to escape my violent ex, and have been forced to move back in with my mum, who as many of you will know isn't the easiest woman to get along with. 

My mum has very kindly offered to pay for some private career coaching, which I start next week. I'll be amazed if it works, but I'm willing to try pretty much anything and everything. 

I'm also considering emigrating to the USA, since I have nationality there, and someone may be confounded by my Englishness into giving me a chance.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 17, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Well I'm still unemployed. Have failed six interviews since I last posted on this thread, applied for around 120 jobs, and managed to claw in around £80 in freelance work. I failed my HGV retest twice as well.
> 
> I've now moved to a different area of the country to escape my violent ex, and have been forced to move back in with my mum, who as many of you will know isn't the easiest woman to get along with.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear about the HGV 

The USA has always struck me as an awful place to be on a low income!


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## stuff_it (Feb 17, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Sorry to hear about the HGV
> 
> The USA has always struck me as an awful place to be on a low income!


Me too, but I think I might find it easier to find work there.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 17, 2017)

I guess provided you chose carefully where you moved to, accepted it may not work out and keep funds aside to get home you could treat it as an adventure, regardless of weather it worked out.


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## stuff_it (Feb 17, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I guess provided you chose carefully where you moved to, accepted it may not work out and keep funds aside to get home you could treat it as an adventure, regardless of weather it worked out.



I basically have the option for a family member to help me move there, and in a pinch they would probably pay for me to move back to the UK if it were a completely unmitigated disaster.

I'm more concerned that it's an awesome way to raise the bar on my failure levels to dizzying new heights.


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## equationgirl (Feb 18, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Well I'm still unemployed. Have failed six interviews since I last posted on this thread, applied for around 120 jobs, and managed to claw in around £80 in freelance work. I failed my HGV retest twice as well.
> 
> I've now moved to a different area of the country to escape my violent ex, and have been forced to move back in with my mum, who as many of you will know isn't the easiest woman to get along with.
> 
> ...


Did you ask for feedback from the interviews? It can be helpful. 

What might you do in the US?  have you started looking at potential jobs there?


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## Thimble Queen (Feb 18, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> I basically have the option for a family member to help me move there, and in a pinch they would probably pay for me to move back to the UK if it were a completely unmitigated disaster.
> 
> I'm more concerned that it's an awesome way to raise the bar on my failure levels to dizzying new heights.



Moving back to the UK isn't going to be cheap.

If we want to move back we'd be looking at 7 grand minimum to move our stuff, our cat and ourselves plus the deposit and first months rent and some money to see us through (poss another months rent) until we found jobs. I appreciate it might not be quite so much for you if you aren't taking a lot of stuff with you and you wouldnt need to rent a whole flat but it's still going to a considerable amount of money to come back and start again. The anxiety of being financially fucked in a new country isn't fun. Its not as simple as just getting a flight back, you need to finance somewhere to live as well. That's a big ask on a family member. I'd tread carefully if I were you. Btw I'm not saying this to be a Debbie Downer, I'm saying it from experience. If I needed to come back to the UK at the moment, I just couldn't afford it. I'm pretty lucky that I'm happy being over here rn.


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## stuff_it (Feb 19, 2017)

Thimble Queen said:


> Moving back to the UK isn't going to be cheap.
> 
> If we want to move back we'd be looking at 7 grand minimum to move our stuff, our cat and ourselves plus the deposit and first months rent and some money to see us through (poss another months rent) until we found jobs. I appreciate it might not be quite so much for you if you aren't taking a lot of stuff with you and you wouldnt need to rent a whole flat but it's still going to a considerable amount of money to come back and start again. The anxiety of being financially fucked in a new country isn't fun. Its not as simple as just getting a flight back, you need to finance somewhere to live as well. That's a big ask on a family member. I'd tread carefully if I were you. Btw I'm not saying this to be a Debbie Downer, I'm saying it from experience. If I needed to come back to the UK at the moment, I just couldn't afford it. I'm pretty lucky that I'm happy being over here rn.


I'm in the UK. I'm thinking of moving to the US.

I have financial help to do this.

We may both move to Scotland instead. Really pissed off about this Brexit shit.


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## Thimble Queen (Feb 19, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> I'm in the UK. I'm thinking of moving to the US.
> 
> I have financial help to do this.



Yes I understood that. I'm responding to the part of your post where you said your relative would pay for you to come home to the UK if it when tits up.


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## stuff_it (Feb 19, 2017)

Thimble Queen said:


> Yes I understood that. I'm responding to the part of your post where you said your relative would pay for you to come home to the UK if it when tits up.


I suspect they would. Chances are we would be renting out a house here that I could, with a bit of warning, move back to.

Looking at the regulations, keeping a property here would also be a good way to prove I really wanted to be back in the UK to the government, thus resolving a lot of other issues.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 19, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> I'm in the UK. I'm thinking of moving to the US.
> 
> I have financial help to do this.
> 
> We may both move to Scotland instead. Really pissed off about this Brexit shit.



Aren't Scotland still part of Britain and leaving the EU as well?


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## stuff_it (Feb 19, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Aren't Scotland still part of Britain and leaving the EU as well?


I'm hoping that they will have another referendum soon. I suspect that they would split from Britain if they did.


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## Thimble Queen (Feb 19, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> I suspect they would. Chances are we would be renting out a house here that I could, with a bit of warning, move back to.



Well that's great if you have relatives to rely on. I'm suggesting that it's a big ask and you might not want to rely on family to finance a new life and then have them pick up the pieces if it doesn't work out for you... It's not going to be a small amount of money. If you have relatives who aren't going to have to make sacrifices in order to support you brilliant but if not you might want to consider the impact on them before you embark on your new adventure.


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## stuff_it (Feb 19, 2017)

Thimble Queen said:


> Well that's great if you have relatives to rely on. I'm suggesting that it's a big ask and you might not want to rely on family to finance a new life and then have them pick up the pieces if it doesn't work out for you... It's not going to be a small amount of money. If you have relatives who aren't going to have to make sacrifices in order to support you brilliant but if not you might want to consider the impact on them before you embark on your new adventure.


They're the ones who have offered it. I didn't suggest it - they did.


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## Thimble Queen (Feb 19, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> They're the ones who have offered it. I didn't suggest it - they did.



You have said they would *probably* pay for you to come back. And you *think* they would. This is what I'm responding to. Anyway good luck. I hope it works out for you.


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## equationgirl (Feb 19, 2017)

You didn't say whether or not you had asked for interview feedback, stuff_it.

It's by no means certain that there will be a second referendum, so don't pin your hopes on that. Also, although the majority voted to remain in the EU it's again not certain how that would happen.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 21, 2017)

do one, gig economy shites


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## Thimble Queen (Feb 21, 2017)

Mmmmm I smell spam


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## rubbershoes (Feb 21, 2017)

But he's wearing a crown.  Must be legit


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## DotCommunist (Feb 21, 2017)

its a mad max misquote tbf


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## Gromit (Feb 21, 2017)

Lala15 said:


> spam?? I'm just tryna help people make money b


The prime person being yourself hence the referral code. If it was the goodness of your heart there'd be no code.


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## stuff_it (Feb 23, 2017)

Someone has offered me a free* franchise opportunity for their dog walking business. Should be a way to pay the bills while I work on my other freelance stuff. 

Wish me luck.

*I'll have to do a basic website for both of us in exchange


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## stuff_it (Feb 23, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Also:  weird polymath, cheap. Prefer West Midlands or home based.


Prefer North West now, lol.


----------



## dilute micro (Feb 24, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Well I'm still unemployed. Have failed six interviews since I last posted on this thread, applied for around 120 jobs, and managed to claw in around £80 in freelance work. I failed my HGV retest twice as well.
> 
> I've now moved to a different area of the country to escape my violent ex, and have been forced to move back in with my mum, who as many of you will know isn't the easiest woman to get along with.
> 
> ...


Hang in there.  I know what you're going through.  Truth is a lot of it isn't you but some of it might be if you're doing the wrong things during an interview.  It's hard to be cool when you have the weight of it bearing down on you.  Interviewers are amateurs at interviewing most of the time.  They tend to go with how you make them feel.  The hard part for you is to come across as genuine and not rehearsed.  I had to stop caring in order to be genuine.  Then a lot of it is luck so it doesn't matter how well you do.   If it's your time then it's your time.  The best advice I got was to stop approaching the interview with the mindset that it was about me getting a job but instead to look at it as a training lesson where I go into it paying attention to how the interviewers respond to my answers and behavior.  Going to coaching and the change in location are very good.  Keep reporting back.  It's important to me to know how you're doing with this.


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## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2017)

dilute micro said:


> Hang in there.  I know what you're going through.  Truth is a lot of it isn't you but some of it might be if you're doing the wrong things during an interview.  It's hard to be cool when you have the weight of it bearing down on you.  Interviewers are amateurs at interviewing most of the time.  They tend to go with how you make them feel.  The hard part for you is to come across as genuine and not rehearsed.  I had to stop caring in order to be genuine.  Then a lot of it is luck so it doesn't matter how well you do.   If it's your time then it's your time.  The best advice I got was to stop approaching the interview with the mindset that it was about me getting a job but instead to look at it as a training lesson where I go into it paying attention to how the interviewers respond to my answers and behavior.  Going to coaching and the change in location are very good.  Keep reporting back.  It's important to me to know how you're doing with this.


I have asked stuff_it if they have had any feedback but they haven't said - I don't want to offer any suggestions for improvement without knowing what's already been said.


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## stuff_it (Feb 26, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> I have asked stuff_it if they have had any feedback but they haven't said - I don't want to offer any suggestions for improvement without knowing what's already been said.


Mostly the places willing to give feedback either say I don't have enough practical workplace experience to back up my technical skills, or that I ought to contact their corporate division. 

I seem to have landed myself in a job hunting crevasse, unable to move forward or back, career-wise.


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## purenarcotic (Feb 26, 2017)

Now that you are a bit more settled location wise is there any way you would be able to volunteer in your preferred work area? Not every day of the week but a few hours here and there so you would have immediate and current practical experience to refer to.


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## weltweit (Feb 26, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> Now that you are a bit more settled location wise is there any way you would be able to volunteer in your preferred work area? Not every day of the week but a few hours here and there so you would have immediate and current practical experience to refer to.


Good idea, worked for me .. you could check out www.do-it.org


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## equationgirl (Feb 26, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Mostly the places willing to give feedback either say I don't have enough practical workplace experience to back up my technical skills, or that I ought to contact their corporate division.
> 
> I seem to have landed myself in a job hunting crevasse, unable to move forward or back, career-wise.


Have you contacted their corporate division as recommended?


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## Treacle Toes (Feb 26, 2017)

I am a bit confused. If there are relatives that are willing to help you set up in the US and help you get back if it goes tits up why wouldn't you draw on that goodwill/financial support to help you here in the UK?


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## stuff_it (Feb 27, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Have you contacted their corporate division as recommended?


Yes. Not enough experience for any of the jobs they wanted to put me forward for.


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## fuck seals (Feb 27, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Have failed six interviews since I last posted on this thread, applied for around 120 jobs,



How are you applying for the roles? - tell me your MO for getting from "i see a job advertised" to interview.  

Two things in the sentence above are poor & can be improved: a 5% conversion rate to interview & a 0% conversion rate once you're there.  But it's only in the approach you make & the way that you sell yourself subsequently that you'll nail the role.  So how are you doing these things?  or is just press-send-and-hope?

and this isn't vacuous condemnation.  i'm forever hunting new roles (and getting them, generally...), and am hunting again at the moment.  happy to give you the benefit of my experience


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## stuff_it (Feb 27, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> I am a bit confused. If there are relatives that are willing to help you set up in the US and help you get back if it goes tits up why wouldn't you draw on that goodwill/financial support to help you here in the UK?


They will, but I'm not certain I want to stay in the UK.


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## Thimble Queen (Feb 27, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Yes. Not enough experience for any of the jobs they wanted to put me forward for.



Are you making that call or are they. If the 'corporate division' are suggestion you go for particular roles, that suggests they think you have a good chance of getting to interview, at least.


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## stuff_it (Nov 9, 2017)

fuck seals said:


> How are you applying for the roles? - tell me your MO for getting from "i see a job advertised" to interview.
> 
> Two things in the sentence above are poor & can be improved: a 5% conversion rate to interview & a 0% conversion rate once you're there.  But it's only in the approach you make & the way that you sell yourself subsequently that you'll nail the role.  So how are you doing these things?  or is just press-send-and-hope?
> 
> and this isn't vacuous condemnation.  i'm forever hunting new roles (and getting them, generally...), and am hunting again at the moment.  happy to give you the benefit of my experience


It's not even so much that I fail. I've had several interviews that went well in the last 6 weeks. One evem told the agency that arranged it how much they liked me. Cue compete blanking silence.

I never get a chance to get feedback for anything, and I always used to get every job I applied for. I'm starting to wonder if I should check that ICO blacklist. 



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## purenarcotic (Nov 9, 2017)

What happens when you try to get feedback?


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## stuff_it (Nov 9, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> What happens when you try to get feedback?


Last time I got feedback they said they really liked me, then still vanished leaving me hanging, when from what they said I should have got a job offer. That is, unless I misconstrued themn telling the agency "we really liked her, and we'll get back to you later in the week". They didn't get back, they just stopped answering calls from either of us. This was from quite a large marketing agency, with over 100 employees.


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## purenarcotic (Nov 9, 2017)

That’s shit.


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## stuff_it (Nov 10, 2017)

purenarcotic said:


> That’s shit.


This is why I should probably ring up the ICO helpline and see if I've been blacklisted. Similar stuff keeps happening, and apparently having eager-looking potential employers repeatedly ghost you is a sign that you might be on the list. Shame I missed the compo payout date if I am on it.


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## equationgirl (Nov 10, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> This is why I should probably ring up the ICO helpline and see if I've been blacklisted. Similar stuff keeps happening, and apparently having eager-looking potential employers repeatedly ghost you is a sign that you might be on the list. Shame I missed the compo payout date if I am on it.


I believe the ICO is dealing with people blacklisted for being union members, a specific case within the construction industry, so it might not strictly apply to you.

It is possible to get 'blacklisted' by recruiters for a variety of reasons including being caught lying on a CV, exaggerating qualifications or experience, changing birthdate to shave a few years off, using multiple recruiters for the same job, wasting a recruiters time etc. Or it could be that references are doing more harm than good - can you absolutely rely on your referees not to stab you in the back?


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## weltweit (Nov 10, 2017)

You don't have to give birth dates these days, and surely stuff_it didn't get to the references stages yet as that is usually post offer.


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## oryx (Nov 10, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Last time I got feedback they said they really liked me, then still vanished leaving me hanging, when from what they said I should have got a job offer. That is, unless I misconstrued themn telling the agency "we really liked her, and we'll get back to you later in the week". They didn't get back, they just stopped answering calls from either of us. This was from quite a large marketing agency, with over 100 employees.



If it's any help, stuff_it, both me and my partner have temped. This has a really familiar ring - the 'go to interview > 'they like you', > radio silence' thing. I think it's partly temp agencies being crap communicators (IMHE) and employers having an internal candidate lined up, or deciding not to recruit after all, or similar.

I haven't temped for a while, but this was a common experience when I did.

IMHO it is just shite communication and a failure to see that candidates want to know outcomes and have feedback.

It doesn't necessarily reflect on you. Good luck with finding something.


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## equationgirl (Nov 10, 2017)

weltweit said:


> You don't have to give birth dates these days, and surely stuff_it didn't get to the references stages yet as that is usually post offer.


Some take up references prior to interview - as I found out when during an interview the interviewer started reading bits of the reference out to me, bits that contained confidential medical information I had not authorised the referee to release, and that had no business being in a reference anyway. 

I didn't get the job.


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## KeeperofDragons (Nov 11, 2017)

My son has never had a job, it seems that he fell through the cracks. He asked on several occasions about going on a course for those who were long-term unemployed & under 25 but was always told they'd get In touch. My thought about this that they would only refer those who had a chance of getting a job & as he is a severe asthmatic & has a bad knee due to a tumour in the back of his knee caused by a massive growth spurt going from 5'2 to 5'8 in a year he has fuck all chance of getting one. He has had only 1 interview in all the time he has been applying & the reason  for not giving him a job is that he was too sweet - what the flying fuck, this is a guy who could stop a massive fight by just having a chat with everyone what is sweet about that. Sorry for ranting but it just makes me so fucking angry that just because he's had a few health problems he's been written off by the DWP who are supposed to help him get into work. This is something I thought was supposed to be a thing of the past, yet another guy who is very intelligent who would be an asset to any organisation who has been thrown on the scrap heap before he's 30


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## weltweit (Nov 11, 2017)

KeeperofDragons there is so much I want to say to this but it is late and I have to go to bed. Your son isn't unemployable (no one is) but he might well be getting bad advice about job hunting, the jobs market and perhaps the types of jobs he is approaching. I just wanted to say something, hopefully I can come back to this tomorrow.


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## KeeperofDragons (Nov 11, 2017)

weltweit said:


> KeeperofDragons there is so much I want to say to this but it is late and I have to go to bed. Your son isn't unemployable (no one is) but he might well be getting bad advice about job hunting, the jobs market and perhaps the types of jobs he is approaching. I just wanted to say something, hopefully I can come back to this tomorrow.


I don't think he's unemployable, he's a great bloke in so many ways. To give an example, he's working on a novel & what little he has told me about it I can't wait to read it. In many ways he's really upbeat despite the DWP writing him off which I think is a real mark of his personality which makes me really proud 

Eta to keep getting his benefit he has to apply for every job even if it isn't suitable or he will get sanctioned. So even being between a rock & a hard place & the attitude from the DWP of 'here comes the guy with the limp' as far as getting into work he's seen by them as up shit creek without a paddle he has to go through the motions even though they think he has fuck all chance of getting into work & as far as helping him goes they think he has no chance & will never get a job


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## weltweit (Nov 11, 2017)

KeeperofDragons the benefits system is a bit odd and I have no idea how it will work under Universal Credit. I see it as hoops you have to jump through to get your benefits. They "can" help with job hunting but don't always do so.

Job hunting can be a numbers game, you just have to keep making applications, redirecting your efforts to jobs you think you might have better success with, but basically ploughing relentlessly onward. I think it is harder to succeed if you are out of work, and sometimes harder if you are older. For this present job, for various reasons, I applied to 188 positions!

If he doesn't have a great CV, it might be worth considering unpaid voluntary work. You can do I think 2 or 3 days a week voluntary work and it won't affect your benefits, (best check with his Job Centre), it gives you something you can put on your CV and also work experience to help you into a paid job. There are usually local agencies who can help and/or there is www.do-it.org/ which I have used. And in my experience, voluntary sector organisations are very happy to have volunteers.


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## spanglechick (Nov 11, 2017)

KeeperofDragons said:


> I don't think he's unemployable, he's a great bloke in so many ways. To give an example, he's working on a novel & what little he has told me about it I can't wait to read it. In many ways he's really upbeat despite the DWP writing him off which I think is a real mark of his personality which makes me really proud
> 
> Eta to keep getting his benefit he has to apply for every job even if it isn't suitable or he will get sanctioned. So even being between a rock & a hard place & the attitude from the DWP of 'here comes the guy with the limp' as far as getting into work he's seen by them as up shit creek without a paddle he has to go through the motions even though they think he has fuck all chance of getting into work & as far as helping him goes they think he has no chance & will never get a job


How old is he and what are his aptitudes/interests?

Does he have any qualifications?


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## Chilli.s (Nov 11, 2017)

weltweit said:


> KeeperofDragons
> 
> If he doesn't have a great CV, it might be worth considering unpaid voluntary work.


 And a way to get a fantastic reference too.


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## Magnus McGinty (Nov 11, 2017)

What’s the DWP position on voluntary work nowadays? It used to be that you couldn’t do it as it would keep you from looking for paid work.


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## weltweit (Nov 11, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What’s the DWP position on voluntary work nowadays? It used to be that you couldn’t do it as it would keep you from looking for paid work.


I was on JSA perhaps 6 months ago, I was allowed to do certainly 2 days a week in a voluntary position. I don't know what the maximum permitted is/was though. I had to do my 35 hours job seeking on top of that.


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## stuff_it (Nov 11, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> I believe the ICO is dealing with people blacklisted for being union members, a specific case within the construction industry, so it might not strictly apply to you.
> 
> It is possible to get 'blacklisted' by recruiters for a variety of reasons including being caught lying on a CV, exaggerating qualifications or experience, changing birthdate to shave a few years off, using multiple recruiters for the same job, wasting a recruiters time etc. Or it could be that references are doing more harm than good - can you absolutely rely on your referees not to stab you in the back?


Several people who I used to do road protests with are on it. They suggested I ought to check.


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## stuff_it (Nov 11, 2017)

KeeperofDragons said:


> My son has never had a job, it seems that he fell through the cracks. He asked on several occasions about going on a course for those who were long-term unemployed & under 25 but was always told they'd get In touch. My thought about this that they would only refer those who had a chance of getting a job & as he is a severe asthmatic & has a bad knee due to a tumour in the back of his knee caused by a massive growth spurt going from 5'2 to 5'8 in a year he has fuck all chance of getting one. He has had only 1 interview in all the time he has been applying & the reason  for not giving him a job is that he was too sweet - what the flying fuck, this is a guy who could stop a massive fight by just having a chat with everyone what is sweet about that. Sorry for ranting but it just makes me so fucking angry that just because he's had a few health problems he's been written off by the DWP who are supposed to help him get into work. This is something I thought was supposed to be a thing of the past, yet another guy who is very intelligent who would be an asset to any organisation who has been thrown on the scrap heap before he's 30


That's fucking terrible. Can he get an apprenticeship in anything?


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## equationgirl (Nov 11, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> Several people who I used to do road protests with are on it. They suggested I ought to check.


Are they on it for being protesters though, or because they are union activists?


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## stuff_it (Nov 29, 2017)

If someone shakes your hand at the end of a job interview, and says "welcome to xxxxx", and wants to know when you can start..... That means you have got the job, right?


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## stuff_it (Nov 29, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Are they on it for being protesters though, or because they are union activists?


Protestors or both.


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## ffsear (Nov 29, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> If someone shakes your hand at the end of a job interview, and says "welcome to xxxxx", and wants to know when you can start..... That means you have got the job, right?



Congrats!!


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## Ted Striker (Nov 29, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> If someone shakes your hand at the end of a job interview, and says "welcome to xxxxx", and wants to know when you can start..... That means you have got the job, right?


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## Ted Striker (Nov 29, 2017)

(Congrats tho!)


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## stuff_it (Nov 29, 2017)

Ted Striker said:


>


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## equationgirl (Nov 30, 2017)

Yes, but don't celebrate until you've got the contract, just to be sure. If it isn't in writing, it doesn't count.


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## Threshers_Flail (Nov 30, 2017)

Fingers crossed!


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## stuff_it (Nov 30, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, but don't celebrate until you've got the contract, just to be sure. If it isn't in writing, it doesn't count.


I don't have it. Have had to write a letter at the suggestion of the agency saying how much I want to work there as an employee.

Apparently they love me and want to hire me but I've been freelance too long for them to think I'll stay. "they don't want to clip my wings". What bloody wings I go hungry most months.


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## equationgirl (Nov 30, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> I don't have it. Have had to write a letter at the suggestion of the agency saying how much I want to work there as an employee.
> 
> Apparently they love me and want to hire me but I've been freelance too long for them to think I'll stay. "they don't want to clip my wings". What bloody wings I go hungry most months.


That's a common enough excuse about freelancers. All you can do is what the agency suggests and big up how much you want to make the transition to full time employee.


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## stuff_it (Nov 30, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> That's a common enough excuse about freelancers. All you can do is what the agency suggests and big up how much you want to make the transition to full time employee.


I have done. Fingers crossed.


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## equationgirl (Nov 30, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> I don't have it. Have had to write a letter at the suggestion of the agency saying how much I want to work there as an employee.
> 
> Apparently they love me and want to hire me but I've been freelance too long for them to think I'll stay. "they don't want to clip my wings". What bloody wings I go hungry most months.


I don't know if these career memories will help cheer you up, but here they are:

I interviewed for a company in Inverness, who loved me and wanted to offer me a job. They were part of an American group, so super corporate, but I reckoned I could fit in enough. Anyway, turns out they didn't have any money to pay me, there was a hopeful suggestion that I would intern for free but I turned that gracious offer down. 

Interviewed for a firm of patent agents that no longer exists. Interview went great, they sent a letter saying they would like to have a second conversation by phone, conversation not really about my competences but would I need a secretary, would I like to work full-time etc? Naturally, I became quite excited that I'd got a job. Never materialised, tried to chase by phone but calls never returned. 

After a three hour interview of hard technical questions with a misogynist, he told me he'd let me know shortly. That was in 1998. I figured I hadn't got the job when I saw it readvertised a few months later. 

And that's just the stuff I can remember - there's a thread on here about a shockingly bad interview I had with a medical devices company about 12 years ago too. 

It's not just you. But it is shit.


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## stuff_it (Dec 1, 2017)

On the plus side, the level of job I am getting turned down for has increased loads this year.


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## equationgirl (Dec 1, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> On the plus side, the level of job I am getting turned down for has increased loads this year.


That's good at least. Job hunting is shit.


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## Supine (Dec 1, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> On the plus side, the level of job I am getting turned down for has increased loads this year.



Put that in your LinkedIn profile. A laugh might get you noticed


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## stuff_it (Dec 9, 2017)

Supine said:


> Put that in your LinkedIn profile. A laugh might get you noticed


I have


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