# Ouya: $99 Android games console for TV looks for funding



## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

This looks an interesting proposition: 


> Ouya seeks $950k on Kickstarter for $99 Android games console
> 
> "We think we're really going to disrupt the console market," says Julie Uhrman, Ouya's chief executive, in an interview with The Guardian. "It's inexpensive, all the games will be free to play, and it's open to any developer that wants to make a game for the TV."
> The device will run Google's Android 4.0 software, with a customised user interface designed for TVs and its own curated app store.
> ...


 
See the promo here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ouya/ouya-a-new-kind-of-video-game-console


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

ugh, more shitty casual games.

Seems to me there's been a fatal split in games development, basically you can get interesting ideas in little casual games and the big AAA titles are increasingly derivative shit, sequel after sequel.

I don't want either, I want fuck off proper AAA games with interesting ideas and some balls.


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## fractionMan (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't want either, either. I don't have a tv and I barely use my phone.  Still, the above could work, but it won't.


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## ohmyliver (Jul 10, 2012)

I'd say it's fairly doomed, as ideas go, as they've forgotten that a fair chunk of android phones can connect to a hdtv


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> ugh, more shitty casual games.
> 
> Seems to me there's been a fatal split in games development, basically you can get interesting ideas in little casual games and the big AAA titles are increasingly derivative shit, sequel after sequel.
> 
> I don't want either, I want fuck off proper AAA games with interesting ideas and some balls.


tough the industry doesn't...

it tried to make these games no one bought them it tried again to make these games still no one bought them it tried one last time and some one bought out a clone with less content more generic feel which sold better than the original then they stopped.  

The last big block buster game to come out which was original was arkham and this was still formulaic (although jolly good).

It's an industry now they're looking for the next plastic shrink wrap big unit seller...


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

ohmyliver said:


> I'd say it's fairly doomed, as ideas go, as they've forgotten that a fair chunk of android phones can connect to a hdtv


Well they can, but they don't come with game controllers and it's often a bit of a clunky experience.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2012)

Seriously, which developers are these who are going to move away from AAA companies and write games people can only play on a non-existent Android console when they're in front of the telly? Do these people think that there's a huge group of folk who really really really want to write for consoles because TVs are just great, and have no way to do this already?


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

It'll run regular Android games. no?


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## Crispy (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> It'll run regular Android games. no?


How would you control them?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> It'll run regular Android games. no?


Not much point playing a touchscreen phone game with a TV and a controller though - if it was any good on a phone 99% of the time it would be useless on a console. Unless the idea is that people add additional game controls and setup to allow for this, which they won't.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> How would you control them?


People have already been bolting on game controllers to Android tablets and playing games. This accessory seems to have been well reviewed too.









> *Competition*
> The Phonejoy is far from alone in the market, which I've hinted at earlier by mentioning console controllers and the universal nature of Bluez IME. Even as far as made-for-mobile controllers go, there's plenty of competition. To mention some, the iControlpad, iCade 8-bitty, and Zeemote are just the tip of the iceberg. I personally very much like the design of the DRONE controller that's on Kickstarter right now, but I think the $65 price tag is to blame for why the project has only 5 days left to more than double its existing pledges.
> 
> As for what makes the Phonejoy unique, well, I can think of two things that make it a great choice: price, and form factor. It's a full sized controllers, no "2D" analog sticks or anything like that. $35 is also quite cheap compared to many of these specialized controllers, and actually makes it cheaper alternative than hooking up a console controller if you don't alreadyhave one of those.
> ...


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## fractionMan (Jul 10, 2012)

We're going to make a cheap console that runs a touch-screen OS in a non-touchscreen way thereby making it completely incompatible with all the existing games for that OS except emulators, which have zero moneystream for developers.

Not super clever really. Unless you want a really cheap multi-emulating box, which I guess some people will for 100 quid.  But I don't see developers flocking to it.


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## ohmyliver (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Well they can, but they don't come with game controllers and it's often a bit of a clunky experience.


 
True, but it's relatively easy to use various wireless controllers on an android phone.

The price is the main advantage... although you can get a Wii very cheap thesedays

I think the corner of the market they may end up claiming is that of console brought by the technologically illiterate because it's much cheaper than a PS3/Xbox/etc, often much to the bitter disappointment of the person/household it's brought for


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

Their funding pledges seem to be rocketing up so  maybe it will get made.


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## Crispy (Jul 10, 2012)

The reason that gaming on phones has been successful is because people started buying phones with large screens and powerful processors. Developers flocked to the platform because the audience was there, not the other way round.

What's going to be truly disruptive for gaming is streaming games via services like onlive and gaikai. Next to no special hardware needed, just a controller and a smart TV, and you get hi-fidelity console gaming piped direct to your home. Give it a couple of years.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Their funding pledges seem to be rocketing up so maybe it will get made.


 
I find Kickstarter quite interesting, more interesting than most of the projects that are on it. Crowdfunding may yet prove to be a short-lived fad for all I know, but for now at least its proving to be a rather interesting way to get stuff funded. 

Apparently Kickstarter have tweeted that UK projects will be able to join in the fun come the autumn (currently you need a US bank account as it uses Amazon payment thingy but as Amazon are expanding it to other territories the UK will be able to get in on the action.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

It's an interesting idea.

The pledges have gone up $60,000 since I started this thread. It's now at $353,487.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

Have you seen how many projects for 'iPad sound enhancers' got funding on there? Errr remarkable.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

Piece about the UK Kickstarter project: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jul/10/kickstarter-open-uk


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

I wish it was already available, Im nearly out of money and Im sure I could come up with some suitably wacky ideas. Far from certain that I'd reach my target, although a 44% success rate for kick-starter projects in general isn't too bad, especially when you see how rubbish many of the ones that don't reach their target is. There was one that was a wooden iPad holder with an additional element for holding josticks, it was so lame. And yes I said josticks, not joysticks!


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Seriously, which developers are these who are going to move away from AAA companies and write games people can only play on a non-existent Android console when they're in front of the telly? Do these people think that there's a huge group of folk who really really really want to write for consoles because TVs are just great, and have no way to do this already?



Yup, file under daftest idea of 2012...


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## Yetman (Jul 10, 2012)

Hang on.....so do you pay for the games or what? Can't see this working if you dont......I'm thinking you buy AAA games at a reduced price streamed straight to your console. That not how it works no?


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

Passed half a million dollars now.


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## Yetman (Jul 10, 2012)

If there was a return on this as in, this funding was shares, I'd stick a few quid into it I reckon.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

That's a lot of fools wasting their money...


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's a lot of fools wasting their money...


How do you know they are 'fools'? What do you know about industry investment?


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

do you really see this taking off?

honestly?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> How do you know they are 'fools'? What do you know about industry investment?


largely because consoles are a dead format... smart tv's will kill them dead along with streaming games...


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> How do you know they are 'fools'? What do you know about industry investment?


 
Kickstarter stuff isnt really an investment, you dont get a stake in the company or a return on your investment, which is why I like it


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> do you really see this taking off?
> 
> honestly?


I've no idea, but I do know that over $720k has already been pledged, so some people must think it has potential.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> largely because consoles are a dead format... smart tv's will kill them dead along with streaming games...


How many people do you think can afford a new smart TV right now compared to the amount of people who may be able to afford a cheap gaming device?


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> I've no idea, but I do know that over $720k has already been pledged, so some people must think it has potential.


 
but you'd be able to pick up an xbox360 for $99 by the time this comes out, why would you buy a glorified phone as a stand alone games console, especially when Xbox Arcade has those types of games on in it ie Meatboy etc


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

also consoles are not a dead format, smart tv's and streaming are a long way off doing any damage.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> but you'd be able to pick up an xbox360 for $99 by the time this comes out, why would you buy a glorified phone as a stand alone games console, especially when Xbox Arcade has those types of games on in it ie Meatboy etc


Only a fool tries to predict where the games market may be in a year's time.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Only a fool tries to predict where the games market may be in a year's time.


 
I don't think it's foolish to predict there will be high selling consoles from Sony and Microsoft and that these will continue to dominate the real games market for quite sometime.

I'd say it's foolish to imagine people will pay $99 for a stand alone console that plays angry birds on their tv.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I don't think it's foolish to predict there will be high selling consoles from Sony and Microsoft and that these will continue to dominate the real games market for quite sometime.
> 
> I'd say it's foolish to imagine people will pay $99 for a stand alone console that plays angry birds on their tv.


Well, only time will tell on that score. With half a million dollars pledged in the last few hours it looks like there's plenty who will disagree with you.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Well, only time will tell on that score. With half a million dollars pledged in the last few hours it looks like there's plenty who will disagree with you.


 
It's a nice idea let down by the fact the spec is shite, so it will never be capable of proper AAA titles, and even if the spec was awesome then it's simply in competition with PC gaming, everyone else happy enough to play Call of Cunt 8: Special Needs Ops on their xbox.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> but you'd be able to pick up an xbox360 for $99 by the time this comes out, why would you buy a glorified phone as a stand alone games console, especially when Xbox Arcade has those types of games on in it ie Meatboy etc


Yes. Why would anybody buy this rather than the heavily subsidised Xbox with a million AAA and small dev games available, over convenient and well established channels? Why would anybody write for it? Christ, I wouldn't.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Only a fool tries to predict where the games market may be in a year's time.



Lol nah mate those of us that actually know this stuff can easily predict next year. This ain't going anywhere. The only non gaming company that has a chance of breaking in is Apple.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> How do you know they are 'fools'? What do you know about industry investment?



Lol! I'd lay money I know a shit load more than all of them and you.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yes. Why would anybody buy this rather than the heavily subsidised Xbox with a million AAA and small dev games available, over convenient and well established channels? Why would anybody write for it? Christ, I wouldn't.



Heh well said.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

The thing is it may not take very much effort for devs to tweak their existing android games to work on this platform. Thats reason enough for me not to label this the most stupid idea of 2012, not by a long shot.

Dont get me wrong, there are a number of different ways this may end up being a giant fail. But at a minimum the fact its almost achieved its funding goal already kind of suggests that I was right to call Google idiots for messing around with $299 Google TV boxes/ Nexus Q. Wrong price point, and lack of focus on gaming.

Personally Im sticking with iOS device & Apple TV box combo for now, but I really would like to see Android achieve something in this space.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

If On Live can have real investment, be around for a good few years and yet make practically no dent on the games market only an idiot would think this thing has a chance. It's bullshit, the games industry is run by massive corporations, only another massive corporation can get in and make a mark. Nothing else will.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

If On Live can have real investment, be around for a good few years and yet make practically no dent on the games market only an idiot would think this thing has a chance. It's bullshit, the games industry is run by massive corporations, only another massive corporation can get in and make a mark. Nothing else will.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

elbows said:


> The thing is it may not take very much effort for devs to tweak their existing android games to work on this platform. Thats reason enough for me not to label this the most stupid idea of 2012, not by a long shot.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, there are a number of different ways this may end up being a giant fail. But at a minimum the fact its almost achieved its funding goal already kind of suggests that I was right to call Google idiots for messing around with $299 Google TV boxes/ Nexus Q. Wrong price point, and lack of focus on gaming.
> 
> Personally Im sticking with iOS device & Apple TV box combo for now, but I really would like to see Android achieve something in this space.


 
If On Live can have real investment, be around for a good few years and yet make practically no dent on the games market only an idiot would think this thing has a chance. It's bullshit, the games industry is run by massive corporations, only another massive corporation can get in and make a mark. Nothing else will.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

Yup.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

Im not predicting it will be a success, but I do try to keep an open mind where possible. Partly because I may have a different take on what counts as making a mark, or denting the market.

As I mentioned, there are a number of different ways this thing could fail badly. I dont know if there is any detail about what cut they will take of revenue from the app store, nor do I know the detail of how trivial it will be for developers to port their existing Android wares to this device, assuming it even see's the light of day. Some of their claims are excessive, and I dont know as they've built enough profit for themselves into the hardware price. There is also probably enough time before they actually launch that if someone else with an interest in Adroid becomes inspired by the interest this product has generated, they could get pipped to the post.

If I were an investor, I would not put money into this product at this stage, no way. There is some kind of demand for a cheap console that isnt controlled by a giant corporation, and where barriers to development are lower than with traditional consoles (although traditional consoles have slowly loosened their grip to a certain extent in recent years). I would agree that there is no clear indication that this demand is enough to create a financially stable hardware business from it, or a platform that gains significant traction. I will be watching with vague interest to find out.


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## fogbat (Jul 10, 2012)

Massive fail.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

fogbat said:


> Massive fail.


Nearly a million pledged dollars of "fail" now.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Nearly a million pledged dollars of "fail" now.


 
Yeah from enthusiasts more out of hope and wish than on the expectation of profitable returns.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yeah from enthusiasts more out of hope and wish than on the expectation of profitable returns.


I didn't realise the backers listed their background, interests and technical knowledge.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> I didn't realise the backers listed their background, interests and technical knowledge.


 
$1 million from over 8000 backers, as the yanks would say, you do the math...


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

It just went over $1 million, the last $50,000 of which was raised in just a few minutes of me pressing refresh. Oh how I wish kickstarter was available for UK projects without a US bank account sooner. (not that I would expect to raise $1 million).


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

Givn that most here think it is made of fail, would anyone else at least agree that Google should be looking at Android TV boxes that cost more like $99 than $299?


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

Sorry, it's petit bourgeois utopianism to think this can really challenge.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> $1 million from over 8000 backers, as the yanks would say, you do the math...


So because you don't like the fact that this project is clearly proving hugely successful in attracting funding, you're now going to try and dismiss those contributing the money because, err, why exactly?


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

I say good luck to them. It's an interesting idea and they've clearly put in a load of work.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Sorry, it's petit bourgeois utopianism to think this can really challenge.


 
Depends what you mean by challenge. Their spiel is full of hyperbole but I dont think they are aiming to get a huge share of the console market.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

By the way you can click on the backers names to see what other 'crap' they've backed  People with dreams could waste a lot of time on that site


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2012)

elbows said:


> Givn that most here think it is made of fail, would anyone else at least agree that Google should be looking at Android TV boxes that cost more like $99 than $299?


Not really, but then I think the whole "TV box" market is one I'd not touch anyway. If they want to make get any headway having already entered it, they should reduce the price. But maybe they can't and should just cut their losses.


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## fogbat (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> I didn't realise the backers listed their background, interests and technical knowledge.


 
I didn't realise that only industry experts invested, and that returns were guaranteed.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> So because you don't like the fact that this project is clearly proving hugely successful in attracting funding, you're now going to try and dismiss those contributing the money because, err, why exactly?


 
it's attracting small scale funding, of the type that can be expected for such an enthusiast project.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

fogbat said:


> I didn't realise that only industry experts invested, and that returns were guaranteed.


Who's making that that claim? Where?

Oh, it's all in your noggin.


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> it's attracting small scale funding, of the type that can be expected for such an enthusiast project.


So all small investors are "enthusiasts"? Glad that's sorted then.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2012)

Why should anyone care how much money has been put into it, in relation to whether it's going to work or not? Plenty of far stupider projects manage to get far more money invested in them.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> So all small investors are "enthusiasts"? Glad that's sorted then.


 
No i'm saying the kind of investment it's getting would be perfectly in line with such enthusiast projects that appeal to more than just expectation of profitable returns. As such investment in it shouldn't be read as being based on a cold calculated decision.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Why should anyone care how much money has been put into it, in relation to whether it's going to work or not? Plenty of far stupider projects manage to get far more money invested in them.


 
well exactly.


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## fogbat (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Who's making that that claim? Where?
> 
> Oh, it's all in your noggin.


 
You appear to be arguing that investment, in and of itself, is an argument for a company's success.


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## fogbat (Jul 10, 2012)

Jesus, why am I bothering arguing with you?


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## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

fogbat said:


> You appear to be arguing that investment, in and of itself, is an argument for a company's success.


No, I wasn't. If i was, I would have said so.

I've worked in loads of start ups when the idea has been utterly shit.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

fogbat said:


> Jesus, why am I bothering arguing with you?


 
I've had that feeling with the Editor many times.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yeah from enthusiasts more out of hope and wish than on the expectation of profitable returns.


 
I call them idiots. Wasting their money on a pipe dream...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yeah from enthusiasts more out of hope and wish than on the expectation of profitable returns.


 
I call them idiots. Wasting their money on a pipe dream...


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I call them idiots. Wasting their money on a pipe dream...


 
well sure is it any different than wasting a couple of hundred dollars on a couple of nights out getting shit faced?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I've had that feeling with the Editor many times.


 
Lol not exactly a rare experience on here, shame it's now in the games forum too...I guess two of the three tech forums being trolled wasn't good enough for him.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> well sure is it any different than wasting a couple of hundred dollars on a couple of nights out getting shit faced?


 
You'd have a better time doing that than playing on this thing.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2012)

Hey, it's their money. I spend money on things I'd like to work but which probably won't. I've shelled out hundreds on random Linux handheld gaming shite which was never going to happen, for instance. Just, the fact that I've spent money on them doesn't mean anyone else should think they're more likely to happen.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Hey, it's their money. I spend money on things I'd like to work but which probably won't. I've shelled out hundreds on random Linux handheld gaming shite which was never going to happen, for instance. Just, the fact that I've spent money on them doesn't mean anyone else should think they're more likely to happen.


 
Indeed. All this tells us so far is that as of writing this, 9376 people want one and are prepared to throw a bit of money at it.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> So all small investors are "enthusiasts"? Glad that's sorted then.


 
Its time like these I wish we had more words to choose from, since investor is a term that may give the wrong impression when it comes to kickstarter. I remember laughing at how snotty some of the responses to an earlier Guardian article about kickstarter were when they discovered that the backers of projects dont get a share in the company.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You'd have a better time doing that than playing on this thing.


 
Thank fuck you dont get to decide what constitutes a good time for the rest of us, Mr 'I need multiple twitter accounts for professional use'.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

I dont like some of their hype much at all. Excessive claims such as misusing the word free, possibly misusing the word open, and pretending that other platforms that are reasonably open to developers compared to the traditional 'games on physical media for consoles' and can work with a tv dont already exist.


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## revol68 (Jul 10, 2012)

elbows said:


> I dont like some of their hype much at all. Excessive claims such as misusing the word free, possibly misusing the word open, and pretending that other platforms that are reasonably open to developers compared to the traditional 'games on physical media for consoles' and can work with a tv dont already exist.


 
Seriously why on earth would an indie developer produce for this rather than xbox arcade or Steam's own equivalent?


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Seriously why on earth would an indie developer produce for this rather than xbox arcade or Steam's own equivalent?


 
I've already mentioned several times that if its trivial enough to port their existing android titles, then some might bother. For example they mention having Unity as a launch partner, although I take with a pinch of salt what they mean by partner. If it wasnt based on Android or another platform that people already develop games for then I'd give it no chance at all.

But even then its only of interest if this device sold in considerable quantities. Please dont get me wrong, I have numerous very large doubts about this, compounded by the lack of information about the company behind it, including the fact they dont even seem to have their own website at this point.

And if they do get it to market in quantities that go beyond the initial batch they are giving to kickstarter backers, I would not bet on it only being $99.

Also lets not underestimate how low the bar is for people describing themselves as indie developers these days. Theres loads of people out there who are mucking around with the free/cheap versions of Unity who cant code jack shit, as a little time spent on the Unity forums demonstrates. Not that these are the sort of developers Ouya want, they'll be happy to take their money now but getting enough quality games for launch is a different story.


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## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

Kickstarter really has taken 'fake it till you make it' to a new level.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2012)

Kickstarter is already a cliché that stands in for "this is a bullshit dot-com project". Didn't take a long time.


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## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

All is not lost, I found a project that I like:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/quirk/vuvuzelas-for-bp



> BP is not feeling the pain they are causing in the Gulf. BP is spending millions on PR. In order to put a bit of public pressure on them, we plan to buy 100 vuvuzelas and hire 100 vuvuzela players off Craigslist to play in front of BP's International Headquarters in London for a one-day flash mob.


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## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

Blimey. It's now hit $1.666m already.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 11, 2012)

i quite like  kickstarter  for some stuff.  especially tabletop games.   the team have all the models n shit  ready  all they need to do is  set a minimum batch number to make mass production profitable  and  use kickstarter as a sales platform.

i have also invested in the  wasteland, carmageddon and double fine adventure  kickstarters.   but mainly thats because they are  established  developers.  i'm still a lot more wary of these projects though. they are still at idea stage.

this seems somewhere between the two.   the hardware  might  just  be a matter of   getting the specs to a factory  but   the software end is  really rather nebulous.

it's  something of a catch 22 though.   you need the control sytem   before you get the games  but  nobody wants to make  games  for  a control system thats not  that prevalent.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> Kickstarter really has taken 'fake it till you make it' to a new level.



I love the idea of it but yeah it's jumped the shark...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Seriously why on earth would an indie developer produce for this rather than xbox arcade or Steam's own equivalent?



Maybe they too could start a kickstarter campaign? "Help us make no money on this system that no one cares about!".


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## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> I've already mentioned several times that if its trivial enough to port their existing android titles, then some might bother.


 
It's not trival to port a _touchscreen_ app to one controlled by a joystick. Well, technically it _might_ be fairly simple but that doesn't mean the game will translate to a new control medium _at all_.

I still think this is a bunch of people who see it as some sort of super mame/psx/n64 etc box, and for that it's a pretty good deal at 99 bucks imo.


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## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

The funding is still rolling in. It's at $2.35m now.


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## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> The funding is still rolling in. It's at $2.35m now.


 
lol


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## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

Well it still an improvement on 'I'm going to run a bar in Spain'.


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## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

They've effectively sold nearly 18,000 units in 24 hours.


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## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

They need to sell millions if it is to become a viable platform


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> They need to sell millions if it is to become a viable platform


Sure, but seeing as 99.99% of the public won't even have heard of this project and tens of thousands of people are already handing them money on just the _idea_ of the thing, I'd say it suggests that there may be some level of potential interest in this concept.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

Tens of thousands of rabid geeks does not equal mass market appeal.

There have been similar "open" gaming hardware efforts in the past. None have made it out of the uber-geeky niche that they spawned from. I've got £20 here that says in 2 years time, this thing will be dead and forgotten, with the only units in use being used to play emulators for 16-bit consoles.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> Well it still an improvement on 'I'm going to run a bar in Spain'.


 
Certainly cheaper


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Tens of thousands of rabid geeks does not equal mass market appeal.
> 
> There have been similar "open" gaming hardware efforts in the past. None have made it out of the uber-geeky niche that they spawned from. I've got £20 here that says in 2 years time, this thing will be dead and forgotten, with the only units in use being used to play emulators for 16-bit consoles.


It probably wil be dead and buried, but I'm not going to piss all over their parade before anyone has even seen the thing.

Oh, and "rabid geeks"?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

Yes. Rabid geeks. Extreme hobbyists.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

When considering its success in terms of how much its raised on Kickstarter quickly, must also factor in the amount of press/website attention it got. Which from what I can tell was a lot.


----------



## tommers (Jul 11, 2012)

It has also generated 4 pages in a day in the gaming forum.  That's pretty unheard of too.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Yes. Rabid geeks. Extreme hobbyists.


they're not rabid, they're not Zombies, they're just infected...


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> When considering its success in terms of how much its raised on Kickstarter quickly, must also factor in the amount of press/website attention it got. Which from what I can tell was a lot.


Possibly because a lot of people think the concept might be a good one. Either that or there's armies of "rabid geeks" happy to throw their money away on dreams for the LOLz.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

Not for LOLz, just because they want one. That does not translate into mass market desirability or widespread targeting of the platform by developers.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Not for LOLz, just because they want one. That does not translate into mass market desirability or widespread targeting of the platform by developers.


But neither does over $2.5m raised in 24 hours on a niche website add up to a project that can be totally dismissed out of hand as only being of interest to 'rabid geeks.'


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm not dismissing it out of hand, I'm make a reasoned point, based on my knowledge of the video games industry. You may not agree with it. That's ok.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> But neither does over $2.5m raised in 24 hours on a niche website add up to a project that can be totally dismissed out of hand as only being of interest to 'rabid geeks.'


not really... look at the population of the USA then have a think what that 2.5 mill represents in terms of percentile of interested parties... now extrapolate that out to the world and the fact the site is on the web and globally accessible... Now there's 7 Billion people on the planet give or take so let's look at this this as a percentile of how many people this could potentially be marketed at...

consider that sony spent somewhere in the region of $3 to $5 billion on the PS3 and they knew what they were doing.  In addition this is only the revealled loss amounts and the real development cost of the console may have been significantly higher... again how does this square with your it's not to be sneezed at 2.5 million.... it's pocket change thus far... nothing of note... 

fanbois will pay stoopid crazy amounts particularly if they think they can get in on the ground on these things and influence the code or dev for it... 

Fanbois and money are easier to part than fools... android fanboys could number somewhere in the region of 10 million or so getting under half of them to contribute a dollar ain't no big thing...


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I'm not dismissing it out of hand, I'm make a reasoned point, based on my knowledge of the video games industry. You may not agree with it. That's ok.


I've already agreed that its chances of success are small, but you seem hell bent on dismissing and belittling both the project and those choosing to invest before it's even got going.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I've already agreed that its chances of success are small, but you seem hell bent on dismissing and belittling both the project and those choosing to invest before it's even got going.


where as you're lionising them as being significant numbers when it's been shown they're really not ...


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> where as you're lionising them as being significant numbers when it's been shown they're really not ...


"Lionising" as in observing "that there may be some level of potential interest in this concept"?

Yeah, OK, Whatever.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I've already agreed that its chances of success are small, but you seem hell bent on dismissing and belittling both the project and those choosing to invest before it's even got going.


 
No I'm not, I'm just commenting on its chances of success. With the funding it's got, it will be built and a small number of people will get one. I predict a small number of dedicated games will be made for it, plus all the usual emulators/interpreters for old games. And that will be that.

"We think we're really going to disrupt the console market," says Julie Uhrman, Ouya's chief executive​ 
Sorry Julie, but I just don't think that's going to happen.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

Here, $9.99. Instant joystick. Job done.







http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/e75a/


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Here, $9.99. Instant joystick. Job done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How does it connect to your TV?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> How does it connect to your TV?


hdtv connector duh!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> "Lionising" as in observing "that there may be some level of potential interest in this concept"?
> 
> Yeah, OK, Whatever.


you're the one claiming siginginfcance of a miniscule number of intrested parties what do you work for cosmetics...

when asked in our survey 9 out 12 people said they could notice a more radiant andriod project. 

(sample size 14)...

get in you champion you ...


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

Plus, it's blackberry playbook compatible too.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you're the one claiming siginginfcance of a miniscule number of intrested parties what do you work for cosmetics...
> 
> when asked in our survey 9 out 12 people said they could notice a more radiant andriod project.
> 
> ...


I think you need someone to explain what the words I've written actually mean.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I think you need someone to explain what the words I've written actually mean.


I think you need to be less of a sensationalist.  A couple million dollars might be a lot to you but it's nothing in comparison to the development costs of a console, you'd not even cover the cost of the coffee for the dev team... let alone anything which would establish it as being a major player in the dead (note not dying; DEAD) console market.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I think you need to be less of a sensationalist. A couple million dollars might be a lot to you but it's nothing in comparison to the development costs of a console, you'd not even cover the cost of the coffee for the dev team... let alone anything which would establish it as being a major player in the dead (note not dying; DEAD) console market.


'Sensationalist' as suggesting that there may be "some level of potential interest in this concept"?"

Yeah, that's _*really*_ going overboard.


----------



## revol68 (Jul 11, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I think you need to be less of a sensationalist. A couple million dollars might be a lot to you but it's nothing in comparison to the development costs of a console, you'd not even cover the cost of the coffee for the dev team... let alone anything which would establish it as being a major player in the dead (note not dying; DEAD) console market.


 
your spot on apart from the notion the console market is dead.

you think the new xbox will flop?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

Somethings got to give. The current model of ever more expensive blockbusters is not sustainable.


----------



## revol68 (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Somethings got to give. The current model of ever more expensive blockbusters is not sustainable.


 
I hope so but I don't see dedicated games consoles dying out for quite some time.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I hope so but I don't see dedicated games consoles dying out for quite some time.


 
Me neither.  Loads of people play online games via consoles.  LOADS.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

revol68 said:


> your spot on apart from the notion the console market is dead.
> 
> you think the new xbox will flop?


 
I do think it'll be a white elephant.  like the vita (or the psp for that matter) at the time they're announced great idea get it in the shops now... 5 years later with RND costs etc not so much.

Look at the 360 it was designed to take out the competition which was the ps2 at the time.  hence no HD solution originally (unless you bought an external HD DVD drive peripheral).

The 780 is/will be designed to take out the PS3.

Already console sales have been flagging a new ps4 or 780 out now would hit the ground running but they're not due until at least next year and probably realistically once launched the ground swell will take around 18 months so let's for arguments sake say they're out in June 2013 and they hit large adoption numbers by December 2014  - Jan 2015... what kind of games are going to be available via your smart/web tv or ipad 5 by this point?  what kind of integration are content delivery companies going to have to putting an app on these smart platforms.  Which is easier for the dev companies controlling piracy through physical media encoding or just via accounts and passwords.  

the Next Gen consoles will have to be significantly better than they are at present and there's no where for them to go with the format it's a dead end.  Media servers, movie/content delivery/games all possible via smart apps.  why would you need a dedicated machine...

I'd imagine that they'll have one last schlep to try and hawk the 4th gen consoles out to people like they did with the supre VHS before it goes down the swanny but it's a dead format. 

Consoles will become the action men of their time.  a product in time which was superseded by about everything else. to obscurity...


----------



## tommers (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Somethings got to give. The current model of ever more expensive blockbusters is not sustainable.


 
Isn't it? Why not? Somebody better tell EA.

And the games market is not just made up of AAA titles. There is absolutely shedloads of games being made across a massive range of platforms and for a massive audience (which seems to be pretty much everybody at the moment.)  Even just wrt consoles, they're embracing the smaller games developers.. XBLA, XBLIG etc.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

tommers said:


> Isn't it? Why not? Somebody better tell EA.
> 
> And the games market is not just made up of AAA titles. There is absolutely shedloads of games being made across a massive range of platforms and for a massive audience (which seems to be pretty much everybody at the moment.)


but there's shedloads more which get canned after 3 years of dev and never see the light of day or get buried or just never make a penny for every game sold in the world they'll be at least 10 which never made it... 

Game dev survivial rates even at places such as rockstar and game company survial rates are worse than level 51 of a zombie side scroller with zero bullets and a boss fight...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> Givn that most here think it is made of fail, would anyone else at least agree that Google should be looking at Android TV boxes that cost more like $99 than $299?



Yup. 300 quid for a box is lunacy in this day and age.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Plus, it's blackberry playbook compatible too.



Made of win!


----------



## tommers (Jul 11, 2012)

Games will always be dropped or changed or whatever.  Companies will always go out of business.  Crispy said that the "current model of ever more expensive blockbusters is not sustainable".

I'm saying that a) that isn't the only current model and that loads of other types of games are being made (probably more than at any point previously)

and b) that these games are sustainable.  COD sells absolutely fucking shittons.  So does FIFA, Madden.  Assassin's Creed will sell by the bucketload, so will the new GTA game.  And, companies like EA can even soak up a few misses without it even damaging them.  When one franchise wears down they crank up another one.  They're the equivalent of Hollywood.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

The games industry is a wobbly beast, its crashed badly before, and there may be trouble ahead. Its been nice seeing the rise of casual games, non-AAA games, mobile platforms etc, but these things also come with their own challenges. In particular focussing on the success stories (Angry Birds, Minecraft etc) can create the wrong impression about how many small developers can actually make a reasonable living without having to resort to sweatshops an pumping out substandard titles at giddy pace.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 11, 2012)

tommers said:


> Games will always be dropped or changed or whatever. Companies will always go out of business. Crispy said that the "current model of ever more expensive blockbusters is not sustainable".
> 
> I'm saying that a) that isn't the only current model and that loads of other types of games are being made (probably more than at any point previously)
> 
> and b) that these games are sustainable. COD sells absolutely fucking shittons. So does FIFA, Madden. Assassin's Creed will sell by the bucketload, so will the new GTA game. And, companies like EA can even soak up a few misses without it even damaging them. When one franchise wears down they crank up another one. They're the equivalent of Hollywood.


everyone I know at rockstar have been given redundancy notices or canned... seriously big firms are struggling and the smaller firms aren't.  Added to which the fallacy of the app game making amillion is beginning to burst too it's really not a good time in the games industry...


----------



## tommers (Jul 11, 2012)

Really? I'm surprised by that.  I'm with you on the apps thing though. I guess that will structure once the initial rush dies down.

Which bit of rockstar do your mates work for?


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

Although I dont follow the industry terribly closely, it feels like the studios & majors peaked some years back, and there has been a fairly steady stream of bad news for a long time now.

So i dont think we should let the spectacular sales of certain titles create the impression that all is well, its not.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 11, 2012)

I want one of these. I might pledge.


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I want one of these. I might pledge.


You rabid geek, you.

Wow. It's passed $3.5m already.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I want one of these. I might pledge.



The kiss of death, if Chris wants it it's truly geek magpie bait that won't hold attention.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 12, 2012)

True say


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2012)




----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Nearly $4m reached with 27 days still to go.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 12, 2012)

Good lord.  I need to think of some geeky product and stick it up on kickstarter


----------



## tommers (Jul 12, 2012)

Sod whether consoles are sustainable, is Kickstarter?


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 12, 2012)

I've invented a trumpet like attachment for iPhone speakers!

Oh, wait.


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

It's working for some:  Kickstarter becomes fourth biggest publisher of graphic novels 


> From the million-plus dollars raised for a graphic novel about stick figures to an all-female anthology showcasing the works of women in comics, the crowdfunding website Kickstarter has become one of the biggest graphic novel publishers in the US.
> 
> Research by US book industry magazine Publishers Weekly puts Kickstarter – which is set to launch in the UK later this year – in fourth place in a ranking of the US's top five graphic novel publishers over the three-month period from February to April. Seven of the site's graphic novel projects raised more than $40,000 (£25,690) over the period, 25 of the 115 successfully funded projects earned five figures, and one – Rich Burlew's The Order of the Stick comic – made $1,254,120. Kickstarter made $2.2m in gross revenue over the three months, Publishers Weekly estimates, behind Marvel ($6.9m), DC ($4.3m) and Image ($2.98m).
> 
> When the amount of revenue a publisher receives, rather than gross revenue, is estimated, however, Kickstarter moved up into second place, with $1.99m in revenue behind Marvel with $2.76m and ahead of DC with $1.72m. This was calculated by Publishers Weekly by multiplying publisher totals by 40% and Kickstarter's total by 90%, as on Kickstarter, 90-92% of a pledge goes to the creator/publisher of a project, while a regular publisher will keep an estimated 40% of the list price of a book.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 12, 2012)

Basically, it's great for geeky things like computer products and comics.


----------



## tommers (Jul 12, 2012)

Order of the Stick is brilliant though.

Lots of projects fail and don't reach their targets. There's a lot of shit in there too, but it's definitely become very important as a way of getting things funded that wouldn't be otherwise. Which is good, I suppose.

There WILL be a backlash though, as soon as stuff starts coming through and isn't what people want, or doesn't get made at all. At the moment people are buying things that don't exist, and I'm sure that lots of them get that they're not buying anything, they're funding development - but equally loads won't get that when their promised uber-gadget doesn't appear.

However, it has enabled goldhawk to make Xenonauts properly, so I don't really care what else happens.


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

I DEFINITELY would have used it when I was doing my comic. It's a brilliant idea.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 12, 2012)

I think Kickstarter deserves a thread of its own, as it's an interesting method of funding the arts. Hundreds of years ago, rich patrons funded artists. Then in the 20th century, mass distribution and selling the finished product funded artists. Now, with digital technology demolishing the distributers' revnue, we return to patronage, but in a distributed form.


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I think Kickstarter deserves a thread of its own, as it's an interesting method of funding the arts. Hundreds of years ago, rich patrons funded artists. Then in the 20th century, mass distribution and selling the finished product funded artists. Now, with digital technology demolishing the distributers' revnue, we return to patronage, but in a distributed form.


DO IT! DO IT!


----------



## Crispy (Jul 12, 2012)

Was going to, but which forum?


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Was going to, but which forum?


Use the force.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2012)

The web/computers forum? Or maybe we could have a Kickstarter sub forum?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 12, 2012)

But kickstarter isn't about computers. It's about distributed funding of arts (in the broadest sense of the word)


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

It's a tech led thing though, so I'd stick it in 'computers', or 'world news/current affairs'


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2012)

Yeah it's mainly tech that seems to do well on it...


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 12, 2012)

i already started a kickstarter thread


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 12, 2012)

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/kickstarter.293066/


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

tommers said:


> Really? I'm surprised by that. I'm with you on the apps thing though. I guess that will structure once the initial rush dies down.
> 
> Which bit of rockstar do your mates work for?


North.

basically the games industry gets all hyped and pressured up and then at it's peak sales/release wise there's nothing left to do expect release some DLC which is usually the test models or beta sections or shortened scripted scenes these days (IE bits which were deemed not to have made the final cut of the original game) there's nothing for them to do so they look at all this cash coming in and then look at the rows of desks with bodies in them not working and they say I think we've found a way of sustaining this profits.... bye bye most staff... the games industry has always done this and sadly the one time EA tried not behave like this and really tried to change this model the game they wrote which wasn't a traditional AAA game but a new idea bombed harder than dresden and they took such a critical pounding over it because it wasn't a standard sequel game but something new they fired everyone and have never bothered trying to release anthing off the track again... why would they... they got badly burned... 

Look at the original Golden eye... all fired became the timesplitters team ... all fired company went into receivership... doom... receivership... duke nukem... bankrupt... etc etc etc etc etc all of the big houses now have largely been put together from the carcuses of dead or dying companies.  Software dev in this area is phenomenal now and hollywood block buster usually has less budget than most big games now... they spent more in some cases on the games than the films the games are tied into... all that cash gotta be recovered and it's not being... when people paid 20 quid a game it was about sustainable but now 50 quid a pop for a new title it's just not, that's 2 less sales in effect... for the price of one... and so people aren't buying new they're getting second hand and so their revenues decrease further...


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2012)

$4.38 million now. Wibble.


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> $4.38 million now. Wibble.


Much rabidness.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2012)

_rabidity_


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> North.
> 
> basically the games industry gets all hyped and pressured up and then at it's peak sales/release wise there's nothing left to do expect release some DLC which is usually the test models or beta sections or shortened scripted scenes these days (IE bits which were deemed not to have made the final cut of the original game) there's nothing for them to do so they look at all this cash coming in and then look at the rows of desks with bodies in them not working and they say I think we've found a way of sustaining this profits.... bye bye most staff... the games industry has always done this and sadly the one time EA tried not behave like this and really tried to change this model the game they wrote which wasn't a traditional AAA game but a new idea bombed harder than dresden and they took such a critical pounding over it because it wasn't a standard sequel game but something new they fired everyone and have never bothered trying to release anthing off the track again... why would they... they got badly burned...
> 
> Look at the original Golden eye... all fired became the timesplitters team ... all fired company went into receivership... doom... receivership... duke nukem... bankrupt... etc etc etc etc etc all of the big houses now have largely been put together from the carcuses of dead or dying companies. Software dev in this area is phenomenal now and hollywood block buster usually has less budget than most big games now... they spent more in some cases on the games than the films the games are tied into... all that cash gotta be recovered and it's not being... when people paid 20 quid a game it was about sustainable but now 50 quid a pop for a new title it's just not, that's 2 less sales in effect... for the price of one... and so people aren't buying new they're getting second hand and so their revenues decrease further...


 
Enter freeimuim, or if you are old enough to remember it, shareware.


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> _rabidity_


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2012)

rabacious


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2012)

rabaciousabilityness.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2012)

Its a pity its completely fucking doomed to failure though


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2012)

rabidosity


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 13, 2012)

i dunno.

just one (even rabid) project  is doomed  but  i do wonder if the onset of smart tvs   would  make  the  model work.

to be honest this  looks more like what i'm after than the ouya  
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028163448/equiso-smart-tv-turn-any-tv-into-a-smart-tv/

and i think a lot more people would  be after something like that 

making adroid a gaming platform isn't an insane idea.  especially if you worked out  a decent   pc emulator  you  could  get into the realms  of    playing a game on your phone on the bus  then   on your desktop at lunch  finally on your  ouya at home.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2012)

Indeed. Lots of people have bought android smartphones that also play games. Very few people went out to buy a portable android games console.

(replace android with iOS to see why Apple TV could, if Apple wanted, be a disruptive gaming platform)


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 13, 2012)

i think the change in interface is the real problem 

it's  gonna  be a  bitch  to make anything cross platform interface wise


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Indeed. Lots of people have bought android smartphones that also play games. Very few people went out to buy a portable android games console.
> 
> (replace android with iOS to see why Apple TV could, if Apple wanted, be a disruptive gaming platform)


 
Nail, hammer, head.

Android doens't have the catalogue to make this a runner.

The guys building this device do not live on this planet, shipping a product in March 2013 and they have no developer documentation?

Not a fucking hope.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 13, 2012)

if your not making a loss on the console isn't this a good idea as it bosts the viability of the market and raises intrest in the rabid geeks?

on an if you build it they will come model this sorta makes sense. if it doesn't pan out what have they lost?

it's one way of breaking out of the loop.  and  kickstarter  was the perfect  way  to make sure it  was economically viable.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> if your not making a loss on the console isn't this a good idea as it bosts the viability of the market and raises intrest in the rabid geeks?
> 
> *on an if you build it they will come model this sorta makes sense*. if it doesn't pan out what have they lost?


 
That approach is financial suicide. The hardware is the tip of the project, there is a huge amount of work around developing the software that runs the device but far more importantly the platform that sells the games and actually generates revenue. You could make 100 dollars on every unit and still run a massive loss.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 13, 2012)

i thought  i just  runs android?   you already  have the software  and  distribution network in place.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i thought i just runs android? you already have the software and distribution network in place.


 
The core is android, the business model is that they become a steam like platform selling titles to run on the hardware. Its like Valve building their console on linux.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2012)

If this was Valve kickstarting a Steam console, then I'd be a hell of a lot more optimistic.

Not that Valve would need any extra funding to do so.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Was going to, but which forum?


 
education & employment forum surely ?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2012)

grit said:


> Nail, hammer, head.
> 
> Android doens't have the catalogue to make this a runner.
> 
> ...



Yup hence my comment about people being fools to 'invest' in this. If Valve did this I'd sign up pronto but not some no name Micky mouse outfit like these guys.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2012)

Crispy said:
			
		

> If this was Valve kickstarting a Steam console, then I'd be a hell of a lot more optimistic.
> 
> Not that Valve would need any extra funding to do so.



No no, I'm taking about choosing the underlying OS doesn't mean you use it as the distribution platform


----------



## Crispy (Jul 16, 2012)

Water for the fire:

http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...e-doesnt-match-the-hype-why-you-should-be-ske

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-14-saturday-soapbox-the-trouble-with-ouya


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Water for the fire:
> 
> http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...e-doesnt-match-the-hype-why-you-should-be-ske
> 
> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-14-saturday-soapbox-the-trouble-with-ouya


Good points, but that second article goes off the rails a bit with its 'imaginary conversation.'


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Water for the fire:
> 
> http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...e-doesnt-match-the-hype-why-you-should-be-ske
> 
> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-14-saturday-soapbox-the-trouble-with-ouya



That first link is very sensible, particularly the point about the press attention focus on the money raised because the thing doesn't actually exist yet. 

This console has some almighty expectations to live up to now thanks to that near Apple levels of hype. Be interesting to see if it meets them...


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## elbows (Jul 17, 2012)

The expectations are giddy, but far less clear is how many people actually hold such expectations now as a result of the hype-fest. In that respect I doubt its Apple-like.

The people who've written the company hype laid it on way too thick for me to take their tales of developer support & commitment etc at anything like face value at this stage. They have to get a lot further down the path before winning my trust on any level, whether it be delivering the product in the right quantity at the right price, building solid app-store infrastructure, getting proper notable developer commitment etc. If the hype-fest continues then some devs will do something and hope some of the hype rubs off on them, but many devs are not going to put resources into this platform unless they see the device selling in good quantities. If it makes it to market Im sure there will be some games for it, whether enough of the really good games do is a different story.


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## elbows (Jul 22, 2012)

Im wondering if what has happened since it hit $4.38 million on July 13th tells us something interesting. As of right now its only gone up just under a million $ since then, presently at $5.36 million with 41944 backers.

In particular Im going to be watching the following pledges with interest, to see how much they may already have exhausted the initial user & developer interest. Recording the current levels here so I can see how much it changes in the 17 days they have left.

$99 34934 backers (45066 of 80000 left)
$225 1803 backers (697 of 2500 left)
$699 371 backers (229 of 600 left)
$1337 202 backers (198 of 400 left)


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## XR75 (Jul 22, 2012)

There's been a handheld console beofre that was funded on roughly the same premise. http://readthescene.org/2011/08/open-pandora/


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## elbows (Jul 22, 2012)

XR75 said:


> There's been a handheld console beofre that was funded on roughly the same premise. http://readthescene.org/2011/08/open-pandora/


 
Wow what a disaster that was in terms of multiple years of failure to keep up with pre-orders, release dates slipping by years. I even went poking around in their forum and found a post where the guy admitted he was having to sell more pre-orders to raise money to get new units made, and thus couldnt deliver on much older pre-orders first. Madness that even falls below the standards of some of the shitty little companies I've worked for. So Id place this one firmly in the realm of hobbyist stuff, I cant even look at them as a proper company, and the product seems rather dated now.

There are plenty of ways for Ouya to fail, and Im not yet convinced they will get the right product to market at the right time for the right price. But I do expect them to at least eventually look more like a functioning company than those behind the open pandora ever managed.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2012)

I expect them to fail and fail big. Their hype machine has raised expectations only a major corporation could meet.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 22, 2012)

it's  got it's first exclusive

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118606-Ouya-Announces-Its-First-Exclusive-Game


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2012)

Sounds like DLC for a game that's properly released elsewhere:



> "Human Element, in 2015 when it releases, actually takes place 35 years after [the zombie apocalypse] has occurred," Bowling explains in a Kickstarter update, "but we thought it would be exciting to give you a glimpse a little early ... So what we're going to do is we're going to work with the Ouya team, and bring you an exclusive, episodic look at the world as it develops and collapses over the course of the event happening."



So not much of an exclusive then?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 22, 2012)

I nearly put money into the Pandora thing, given that I bought the predecessor to it, a Linux handheld that just never managed to do anything. It's still in a drawer somewhere I expect. It couldn't even live up to the promise of a handheld that ran MAME.


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## editor (Jul 24, 2012)

Interesting:


> The OUYA team has a lot of promises to fulfill once they actually deliver the console, one of the big ones being the promise that OUYA will be the first completely open console. Previously, OUYA developers were given the option of receiving a rooted console (when it eventually releases, that is), but the OUYA team has just sent out an update saying they’ll be providing instructions for rooting to everyone. This means that consumers will be able to root their machines at their leisure, with OUYA also offering “builds and instructions” to get consoles back to their “unrooted” factory settings.
> 
> That’s pretty big news, because even though Android is all about the open source community, we don’t often see manufacturers offering the tools required for rooting or pre-rooted devices like OUYA plans to do. Rooting the console, of course, means that OUYA users will have access to all of the Android software on the machine, allowing for the first truly open console, just as OUYA promises on its Kickstarter page.


http://androidcommunity.com/ouya-will-offer-rooting-instructions-to-consumers-20120723/


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## editor (Jul 30, 2012)

Update:


> As of this writing, about 43,000 people have already preordered an OUYA via Kickstarter. If the console continues to attract backers at the rate it has, it will have attracted about 180,000 preorders when the campaign ends


http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/29/for-ouya-its-game-on/


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## elbows (Jul 30, 2012)

Thats not true though, their maths is well wonky by a large degree. Just look at the numbers I posted above on July 22nd and compare them to the present numbers, and unless Ive gone mad you'll see that its not on schedule to do even half of what that Engadget article says.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2012)

180k preorders? Heh.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 30, 2012)

apparently it's going to run onlive

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118750-Ouya-Scores-Hundreds-of-Games-Through-OnLive

which is a useful way to skip a lot of the development issues


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## Crispy (Jul 30, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> apparently it's going to run onlive
> 
> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118750-Ouya-Scores-Hundreds-of-Games-Through-OnLive
> 
> which is a useful way to skip a lot of the development issues


 
You can already buy a $99 OnLive box: http://blog.onlive.com/2010/11/17/introducing-the-onlive-game-system/


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 30, 2012)

hummm  speaking personally  but  i wouldn't  get a dedicated onlive box   but  a  box that does android games   streaming tv  and  onlive?    sign me up.  i'm  seriously considering it now.

this  will probably handle  my media centre   needs as well as my gaming needs


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 30, 2012)

fuck it.  decided to put money where mouth is  and  backed it.


not just   for  the  system itself  but  for the idea of an independant platfor  for  games  development.

gamers  needs this
http://gameoverthinker.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/episode-72-necrothinker-last-stand.html


may have to  also buy the steeambox when it comes out


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 31, 2012)

hummm  some  HD final fantasy...




> We’ve been saying that OUYA will offer all kinds of games.
> This morning, we are honored to announce that OUYA is partnering with Square Enix to bring you one of the most beloved franchises in gaming -- Final Fantasy. We will kick this off with Final Fantasy III, which will be a launch title on OUYA. This will be the first time gamers outside of Japan can play FFIII on their televisions through a console.
> But that’s not the end of it: We’re promising to deliver Final Fantasy III like you’ve never seen it before – Hironobu Sakaguchi’s third installment in the role playing game franchise will be updated to exploit OUYA’s high-definition resolution in glorious graphic detail. For those of you who are new to Final Fantasy, we’ll offer a free demo so you can give it a go!
> Previously unreleased in the U.S. until it appeared as a 3D remake for the Nintendo DS in 2006, Final Fantasy III was widely referred to as one of the “missing pieces” in the FF series. OUYA players can now proudly claim this piece of the puzzle.


 
price point will be an issue.     especially as the first thing i did  with my android phone was run a snes emulator


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 31, 2012)

You can buy it for your iPhone and Nintendo 3DS too...


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 31, 2012)

i don't have either.


i do have  a snes emulator on which i have play  all snes  FF games


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 31, 2012)

besides isn't  this  meant  to be  tv gaming  not  hand held?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 1, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> besides isn't  this  meant  to be  tv gaming  not  hand held?



Why would pay for something you can only play on your tv that's this old when you can get it for free your way or have it with you my way?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 1, 2012)

if the price point is right  it would be fun.

plus you wouldn't be pirating.  

same logic for haiving stuff like netfixs  on you tv


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## Sunray (Aug 3, 2012)

This is a terrible idea.  Its failed for so many reasons.

Talent is required to make games that will sell consoles and therefore you need to spend a fuck ton of cash to create games that people will fork out the cost of the console + the 1st game or two.  That talent is currently creating games for the current crop of consoles because there are millions of them out there.

Then there is the dev environment, oft forgotten.  Do not underestimate how much Microsoft have invested in making the XBox development environment as great as its become.  Then the libraries. Then the actual time involved.  I doubt many people outside the development industry truly grasp quite what goes into making something even as simple as Angry Birds.


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## mrs quoad (Aug 3, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> hummm some HD final fantasy...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The one stand-out point of FF / Square on iOS is their price point.

Which is almost diametrically opposed to (IMU) the working principles of the Ouya.

Square are the _only _titles that sell even their most basic games at a starting point of £10-15. Which is fair enough. And a decent step down from DSes, etc, I believe.

But it's an odd choice for a 'bargain basement' console, unless they've managed to wrangle one heck of a deal.


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## editor (Aug 8, 2012)

$7.7m raised so far - article here:





> But it's clear there could be a future for Ouya as an open, Android-based gaming platform for connected TVs, likely via partnerships with manufacturers. And that's potentially even more disruptive in the grand scheme of things than a $99 games console – although such partnerships may bring their own challenges to Ouya's open ethos.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2012/aug/08/ouya-android-console-funding


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## revol68 (Aug 8, 2012)

editor said:


> $7.7m raised so far - article here:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2012/aug/08/ouya-android-console-funding


 
you put your money where your mouth is on this one yet?


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## editor (Aug 8, 2012)

revol68 said:


> you put your money where your mouth is on this one yet?


I've no interest in it at all, but I can see it may have potential.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 8, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> The one stand-out point of FF / Square on iOS is their price point.
> 
> Which is almost diametrically opposed to (IMU) the working principles of the Ouya.
> 
> ...



It'd be surprising if they had, SE make enough money off that franchise why reduce their margins for some pipe dream?


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## elbows (Aug 9, 2012)

editor said:


> $7.7m raised so far - article here:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2012/aug/08/ouya-android-console-funding


 
Well its all over now and in the end they raised close to $8.6m with 63416 backers. Which is very impressive in some ways, but not in others. I guess I was right to take the piss out of that Engadget article and its dodgy estimates. For me the level of funding they got was impressive, but the actual number of pre-orders isnt that impressive at all in the grand scheme of things, not given the amount of free publicity it received. Its not enough to make me interested as a developer prior to actual launch.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It'd be surprising if they had, SE make enough money off that franchise why reduce their margins for some pipe dream?


 
didn't they recently get fucked off with sony?  or am i dreaming that


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## 8ball (Aug 9, 2012)

Looks to me like one of those things that could be a great success despite sounding like a dumb idea on paper.

Like the idea of Sony trying to make a games console, or Apple getting into little music players.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 9, 2012)

apparently  they might get all the bandai backtitles.

it's sounding a lot healthier now.  with media center support and a few big names associated.


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## editor (Dec 19, 2012)

Update: 


> If you don’t already know, there’s about to be a new gaming console out on the market. It’s called the Ouya, and it’s an Android-powered, $100 gaming console that stormed past its Kickstarter goal a few months ago. Both Ouya and third-party developers are working hard to get a large sum of games on the new console before it launches in March.
> Ouya announced that there will be ten new games coming to the console, on top of the games that the console will already offer. The company announced via Twitter what the ten games were: Fist of Awesome, MechKnight Chronicles, Syder Arcade, KidElectro, Space Runner, Legend of Dungeon, iMech Online, DustyRevenge, HolyShield!, and Starbound.
> 
> Most of these games you’ve probably never heard of, although Fist of Awesome involves punching bears, so we’re assuming that a lot of these games are going to be pretty awesome. The developers of these ten games were also rewarded Ouya dev consoles of their own for free, in order to test out their respective games before it officially launches.
> ...


http://www.slashgear.com/ouya-game-console-gets-10-more-games-19261680/


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 19, 2012)

hopefully  the media centre stuff on it will be better than that on the sony media centre we got for downstairs which is a big old pile of shit.
I'll be interested to see how much either me or my parents might actually use it for games.


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## 89 Til Infinity (Dec 19, 2012)

editor said:


> Ouya dev consoles will begin shipping out on December 28


 
Pretty tempted to get one of these. Shame they missed an xmas release date though


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 19, 2012)

i'm dead tempted by the Oculus Rift  dev pack but  i know waiting till they ship the regular version will be more sensible


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2012)

Shipping on Dec 28th, great way to take advantage of the holiday season...


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## editor (Feb 5, 2013)

It's up on Amazon now too.
http://www.techradar.com/news/gamin...-crowd-sourcing-as-pre-orders-rack-up-1129446


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2013)

They've exceeded the 68,000 backers in pre-orders, LOL alright. Good luck with you DOA console!


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## editor (Feb 14, 2013)

Interesting: 


> What’s also surprising is that OUYA is also working directly with a team from NVIDIA . According to _Engadget_, both OUYA and NVIDIA are working together to maximize the efficiency of the Tegra 3 processor inside the OUYA gaming console. Since the OUYA connects directly to a power outlet, there’s no battery dependency which means that the Tegra 3 processor can be pushed even farther.
> http://androidcommunity.com/ouya-cl...e-best-tegra-3-device-in-the-market-20130213/


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 14, 2013)

No it's not. It's still a massive fail whale.


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## Fez909 (Mar 28, 2013)

You can now pre-order it. £99, as they said.

£39 for each controller, and the controller isn't mentioned as being included in the £99


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 28, 2013)

They are meant  to start shipping it to backer now


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## Crispy (Mar 28, 2013)

http://shop.ouya.tv/products/ouya-console
Comes with controller


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 28, 2013)

Be interesting to see how badly this fails, total failure or just moderate failure.


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## elbows (Mar 28, 2013)

Failure of some kind is obviously the only likely option as far as those who are obsessed with tracking only the most gargantuan of corporate phenomenon are concerned. Since I'm so bored of that game and find its implications distasteful, I'm going to attempt to give a little more attention and love to smaller phenomenon. Bollocks to the sterile successes of overwhelming domination, multinational drool and worship. Thats not what made me interested in technology in the first place.


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## Crispy (Apr 4, 2013)

Off to a rocky start: http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/4/4180242/ouya-review


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## editor (Apr 4, 2013)

That's one harsh review!


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## tommers (Apr 4, 2013)

Paid off by the mainstream gaming industry.


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## fractionMan (Apr 4, 2013)

The review wasn't that bad imo.  Fairly balanced. He doesn't like the design so much, but hates the xbox more.  This is good, this is not etc.

It's still in beta. Launch not till june & hopefully they'll have time to iron out some of the less, er, appealing parts of the UI and add the must have game.


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2013)

They might have UI fixes and polish done in two months, but I find it hard to believe the games lineup will be much different.


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## fractionMan (Apr 4, 2013)

Only just read conclusion, which yeah, was a bit harsh.  I also think it's wrong about people who signed up to the kickstarter being disappointed.  Surely it's what they were expecting.


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## elbows (Apr 4, 2013)

From the sounds of that review the problems are pretty predictable, and largely stem from the expectations people have when the phrase games console is used.

There are reasons why some industry watchers have wondered whether the success of smartphones and tablets for games would eventually kill the established games console business model as we have known it. But there are also reasons why its premature to stretch this possibility to a conclusion in 2013, or expect that plugging an android device into a tv is going to bring about that reality quickly.

Personally I do not like the phoney free to play model for games and apps, I like the budget model and downloadable demo model. There are obvious similiarities and overlaps, but it sounds like Ouya may have done it wrong.

I kind of like this project for what it is, but the hype was way out of step with the likely reality from day one and thats clear from this thread and my early thoughts on it during the Kickstarter phrase. Whether it is doomed and crap or not depends in great part on how big you are thinking, and how big they need to be to survive. That and developers.


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## electroplated (Jun 24, 2013)

I'll just leave this here


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2013)

Heh an unboxing video...someone I know tried it out recently and said the joypad is atrocious.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 25, 2013)

mine is lost in transit at the mo

kinda mixed responses so far  but   we shall she


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## editor (Jun 26, 2013)

It sold out on Amazon. The reviews would suggest it's improving. 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0050SZD18?tag=viglink128499-20


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2013)

Picked mine up form post office today.

not had a chance to play about with it properly yet  but  first impressions are fairly good.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2013)

So far it doesn't have a fantastic selection of software  but i am loving the 3d remake of final fantasy 3


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 29, 2013)

Looks like the lack of decent games is being picked up in reviews. A console without triple AAA titles don't do well at the best of times, one from a no name company has a real battle on it's hands if it wants to take even 1% of the gaming market.



> Destructoid saying "most Android games are absolute crap, and some real garbage is already all over the Ouya." A few good games could hold users over until developer support picks up, but CBC notes that the Ouya is "definitely lacking any system sellers." And of the quality games it does run, it doesn't run them very well, with Android Police experiencing "lags to an unacceptable degree in many games" due to the somewhat outdated Tegra 3 chip, which is a shame since the Ouya can push the chip to the max since it doesn't have to worry about conserving battery life.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 29, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> So far it doesn't have a fantastic selection of software but i am loving the 3d remake of final fantasy 3


 

What's the controller like to use? I've not heard any good things about it but this is from heavy Xbox gamers (easily the console with the best joypad at the moment).


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 30, 2013)

it does the job fine.  it isn't as nice as an xbox controller but that's more of a comment on how good the xbox controller is. the trigger buttons are the weakest bit  as the feel a bit lose and spongy.  the face buttons feel good  and the analogue sticks do their job.  dunno about the d pad  because i never use the thing.



the wireless is good though.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 1, 2013)

kind of not wrong


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## Yata (Jul 3, 2013)

fyi if you hate the pad so much you can use a 360 controller with it

are the games really that laggy?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 4, 2013)

not that i noticed
FFIII ran smooth as anything


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 3, 2013)

As an apology for the less than stellar roll out all the kickstarter backers got a $13.37 (lol) store credit code. 

which is nice


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2013)

So has anybody played a game on it or something?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 4, 2013)

yes


a bit

it works fine

i just mainly use my pc for gaming


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2013)

Now we have Chromecast this thing has even less a chance in hell...


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