# New BBC drama - The Last Kingdom



## neonwilderness (Jul 9, 2014)

Looks like the BBC are adapting Bernard Cornwell's The Saxon Stories series into a drama. I'm part-way though reading the books at the moment and it could work great as a TV series I think 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...dom-with-downton-abbey-producers-9594618.html



> It promises to be an epic drama full of bloody battles over ancestral lands. The BBC is hoping for a _Game of Thrones_-style hit with a new series depicting the struggle between the Saxons and Viking warlords.
> 
> _The Last Kingdom_, coming to BBC2 next year, is a collaboration between BBC America and Carnival Films, the award-winning producers who turned _Downton Abbey_ into a global blockbuster.
> 
> ...


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## neonwilderness (Apr 22, 2015)




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## marty21 (Apr 22, 2015)

I've enjoyed the books too , so looking forward to this .


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## Artaxerxes (Apr 22, 2015)

Huh, I'm just plowing through these now.


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## ringo (Apr 22, 2015)

I just got the first one for a quid from Amazon, must be a deal to get people into the rest.


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## Chilli.s (Apr 22, 2015)

Good idea for TV. Well done Beeb looking forward to it.


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## Santino (Apr 22, 2015)

I hope Sean Bean turns up as Erik the Sharp, or something. And then gets killed.


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## neonwilderness (Apr 22, 2015)

Santino said:


> I hope Sean Bean turns up as Erik the Sharp, or something. And then gets killed.





Spoiler



He could play Ealdorman Uhtred. It'd be like Game of Thrones all over again


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## bi0boy (Apr 22, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Huh, I'm just plowing through these now.



Is it out yet? Not on the torrents


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## bi0boy (Apr 22, 2015)

ok imdb doesn't even have a release date yet


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## bi0boy (Apr 22, 2015)

oh you mean the books


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## trabuquera (Apr 22, 2015)

so, nothing at all to do with the humungous (and criminally under-appreciated) success of MGM/History Channel's _Vikings_ then?


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## neonwilderness (Jul 21, 2015)

Premieres on the 10th of October - http://www.bbcamerica.com/the-last-kingdom/


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> so, nothing at all to do with the humungous (and criminally under-appreciated) success of MGM/History Channel's _Vikings_ then?



History Channel eh? I suppose the Vikings were all aliens were they?


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## trabuquera (Jul 21, 2015)

No aliens (or even any fake tan) involved, no. The chronology's been diddled about a bit and there's some convenient slippage between myth, fiction and mythologised history, but otherwise it's pretty damn realistic. (apart from having Ragnar Lothbrok portrayed by an Australian underwear model, etc., of course.)


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## MrSki (Oct 21, 2015)

Starts tomorrow in the UK. 9pm BBC2

Details of cast here. BBC Two - The Last Kingdom - Episode guide


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## Dan U (Oct 21, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> so, nothing at all to do with the humungous (and criminally under-appreciated) success of MGM/History Channel's _Vikings_ then?


Yeah I thought that, a much more valid comparison than game of thrones 

I guess the BBC PR don't want to compare to a show already 3 seasons deep and dealing with a similar subject and time frame. 

Even the lead character has the same name 

Will still watch this though.


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## fizzerbird (Oct 21, 2015)

MrSki said:


> Starts tomorrow in the UK. 9pm BBC2
> 
> Details of cast here. BBC Two - The Last Kingdom - Episode guide



Can't wait...

oh dear lord...SWOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!!


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## trabuquera (Oct 21, 2015)

I'm in there like lice on a bearskin. yearghghghghghgh!


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## sim667 (Oct 21, 2015)

Sounded quite good until I got to "for fans of game of thrones".


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## Sprocket. (Oct 21, 2015)

Cornwell has spent some time weaving Uhtred's timeline in with the era of Alfred the Great.
Books are really good.
They were talking about it on Radio 5 live yesterday, apparently the BBC only gave the large budget as they are wanting to prove that nearly all in the land are descended from immigrants.


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## neonwilderness (Oct 22, 2015)

Anyone else watching? 

A couple of  bits so far, but they seem to be sticking to the plot of the books though


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## JimW (Oct 22, 2015)

neonwilderness said:


> Anyone else watching?
> 
> A couple of  bits so far, but they seem to be sticking to the plot of the books though


Thought it was OK but Bebbanburh hardly looks impregnable and the topography does feature later. No dancing on the oars either


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## spitfire (Oct 22, 2015)

Why's everything so fucking dark? Same with Dr. Who. 

Not bad apart from that.


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## neonwilderness (Oct 22, 2015)

JimW said:


> Thought it was OK but Bebbanburh hardly looks impregnable and the topography does feature later. No dancing on the oars either


Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Also wasn't the first fight supposed to be in York?  

Nice to see one of the Hairy Bikers playing Ragnar though


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## JimW (Oct 22, 2015)

neonwilderness said:


> Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Also wasn't the first fight supposed to be in York?
> 
> Nice to see one of the Hairy Bikers playing Ragnar though


They did go to York for that battle, the three tier shield wall was a bit wack


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## neonwilderness (Oct 22, 2015)

JimW said:


> They did go to York for that battle, the three tier shield wall was a bit wack


The impenetrable shield wall that Uhtred senior managed to single handedly fight through


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## fizzerbird (Oct 23, 2015)

neonwilderness said:


> Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Also wasn't the first fight supposed to be in York?
> 
> Nice to see one of the Hairy Bikers playing Ragnar though



it was in York, wasn't it?

lol @ Hairy Bikers 


Well I'm enjoying it so far...


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## neonwilderness (Oct 23, 2015)

fizzerbird said:


> it was in York, wasn't it?


Admittedly it's been a while since I read the first book so I might be misremembering, but I thought York fight was on the walls rather than in a field?


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## ringo (Oct 23, 2015)

Liked it. Close enough to the book but could do with some more pillaging and the odd beserker.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2015)

neonwilderness said:


> Admittedly it's been a while since I read the first book so I might be misremembering, but I thought York fight was on the walls rather than in a field?


in those days york was but a fenced field.


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## youngian (Oct 23, 2015)

Setting yourself alight as you take on five people in a sword fight; "see you in Valhala." And ISIS think they're hard.
What's not to like and of course historically accurate; Saxons are pious dullards up against marauding, drinking, partying, wench-slapping Vikings (with a bit of Led Zeppelin in the trailer). It even had a baddie Viking with one eye like Kirk Douglas.


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## Sprocket. (Oct 23, 2015)

Damn Saxons and their Johnny come lately God!
Not watched yet, I'm saving it for the weekend.
Sounds good so far.


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## neonwilderness (Oct 23, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> in those days york was but a fenced field.


When you were a lad? 



youngian said:


> It even had a baddie Viking with one eye like Kirk Douglas.


I thought the Kjartan/Sven bit was done pretty well, setting them up as enemies quite early on.


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

Always liked Ian Hart too and thought he was good, extended baptism


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## youngian (Oct 23, 2015)

How accurate was the tortoise shell shield defence the Vikings used, wasn't that a Roman army tactic? Not that it matters too much.


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

youngian said:


> How accurate was the tortoise shell shield defence the Vikings used, wasn't that a Roman army tactic? Not that it matters too much.


Nonsense I think but I'm no expert. Considering how much of a thing the shield wall is in the books hope they've thought through how they'll show it a bit better than that.
ETA partly because archery wasn't much of a feature in fighting at that point in time so not sure anyone would practise any sort of fancy triple decker


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## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2015)

youngian said:


> How accurate was the tortoise shell shield defence the Vikings used, wasn't that a Roman army tactic? Not that it matters too much.





> In preparation for battle the younger warriors would draw up in line, with their shields overlapping in a 'shield-wall' for better protection; their chiefs were well defended by a close bodyguard. The older veterans formed up in support behind them. Battle then began by throwing a spear over the enemy line to dedicate them to Odin, it is said, and this was followed by a shower of spears, arrows and other missiles.


BBC - History - Viking Weapons and Warfare


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## marty21 (Oct 23, 2015)

I enjoyed it, a few variations from the book which is always slightly annoying but I'll get over it  If it is a hit, then it could go on for a few years - 7 books in the series IIRC


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## trabuquera (Oct 23, 2015)

Liked the morally-ambivalent Anglo-Saxons, the hints at how their Christianity was pretty newly-minted and pagan beliefs still very much around, the even heavier hints about them being (and admitting to being) recent immigrants who'd "taken this land for ourselves" rather than being just noble honest folk who'd always been there .... liked the look of it and - most of all- the unabashed big-name big-character actor-slaying all through part 1.

Disliked the lack of skaldic poetry, the rectangular Anglo-Saxon shields (umm, no), frumpy women's fashions and the dearth of pecs throughout.

It's weird but the History Channel VIKINGS is trashier, yet also seems truer to the spirit of the age ... moar doomy and bloody and feudy.

But I'll definitely be carrying on with the BBC version.


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> ...the rectangular Anglo-Saxon shields (umm, no)...


That struck me as horribly wrong too, maybe if it was romano-britons pretending to still be the imperium.
Agree about the slightly underwhelming feel too, more Dr Who than epic.


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## neonwilderness (Oct 23, 2015)

JimW said:


> Agree about the slightly underwhelming feel too, more Dr Who than epic.


Hopefully some of the future battles will be a bit more epic. I'm interested to see how they portray Steappa


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## Cid (Oct 23, 2015)

JimW said:


> Thought it was OK but Bebbanburh hardly looks impregnable and the topography does feature later. No dancing on the oars either



Bebbanburg is based on (or sort of literally is, it's an old name for it) Bamburgh castle.







Although obviously minus the castle and with something more like the fortifications in the TV series. So yeah, a fort on what looks like a plane is a bit crap. Although it does seem to have some cliffs in front of it.

Another one for 'wtf, square shields?' here. Should have essentially the same tactics and weapons.

Uhtred senior's death was great though...


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

Yes, knew that about bamburgh so was expecting more of a crag, and it needs a sea gate for later events too as I recall. I presume they have a plan.


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## Cid (Oct 23, 2015)

JimW said:


> That struck me as horribly wrong too, maybe if it was romano-britons pretending to still be the imperium.
> Agree about the slightly underwhelming feel too, more Dr Who than epic.



Nah, rectangular shields disappeared in the late Roman army.


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

Cid said:


> Nah, rectangular shields disappeared in the late Roman army.


Probably got this off cornwell's other stuff rather than actual history but understood some of the successor Romano-British sub-Roman polities still did a bit of shonky reenactment style roman dress-up.


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

JimW said:


> Probably got this off cornwell's other stuff rather than actual history but understood some of the successor Romano-British sub-Roman polities still did a bit of shonky reenactment style roman dress-up.


ETA Oh, I see, you mean the late Romans had already ditched them?


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## Cid (Oct 23, 2015)

Yeah, the late Roman armies had changed a great deal from the great legions of the past. A lot of mercenary units and even in the core legions the shields went oval some time in the late 3rd century BC. Saxons used pretty much the same gear as the Danes I think.


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## Cid (Oct 23, 2015)

Non-epic is fine though. Even in the major battles forces were in the low thousands (well, so it was said last time I vaguely read something)... These are minor battles on the edge of things.


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## neonwilderness (Oct 23, 2015)

Cid said:


> Non-epic is fine though. Even in the major battles forces were in the low thousands (well, so it was said last time I vaguely read something)... These are minor battles on the edge of things.


Yeah, hopefully some of the bigger battles in the later books will be a bit more epic


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

Yeah, not the scale I felt was lacking so much as the feel, epic as in a time of high-blooded heroes and whatnot.


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## Cid (Oct 23, 2015)

If they follow the books there should be some decent roaring of challenges and brutal duels later on.


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## Belushi (Oct 23, 2015)

There were no huge battles in this period, even the Viking 'Great Heathen Army' consisted of less than a thousand men.


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

Belushi said:


> There were no huge battles in this period, even the Viking 'Great Heathen Army' consisted of less than a thousand men.


The whole Viking thing seemed predicated on twenty hard bastards in a boat showing up was a major force concentration most locales couldn't cope with.


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## Pingu (Oct 23, 2015)

youngian said:


> How accurate was the tortoise shell shield defence the Vikings used, wasn't that a Roman army tactic? Not that it matters too much.



the shield wall was the de rigour tactic of the era (and going back much earlier too) having been in one or two in renactments i can only imagine that the real thing was utterly terrifying, even with blunted weapons and people not actually trying to kill you its a fairly brutal place to be. the basic idea was to get an overlap and curve in your enemies flanks. once you did that the slaughtering could begin


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## Pingu (Oct 23, 2015)

JimW said:


> Probably got this off cornwell's other stuff rather than actual history but understood some of the successor Romano-British sub-Roman polities still did a bit of shonky reenactment style roman dress-up.



the time period for that was a bit earlier. 

basically romans leave - britons do stuff for a couple of hundred years - saxon and angle scum invade and conquer - saxon scum do stuff for a bit - the norse come in and do similar in the north

it was the period where britins do stuff that the roman legacy remained although chester was used by both saxons and norse as a fortified city


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## JimW (Oct 23, 2015)

Pingu said:


> the time period for that was a bit earlier.
> 
> basically romans leave - britons do stuff for a couple of hundred years - saxon and angle scum invade and conquer - saxon scum do stuff for a bit - the norse come in and do similar in the north
> 
> it was the period where britins do stuff that the roman legacy remained although chester was used by both saxons and norse as a fortified city


Yeah, that was the setting for his Winter King books.
Eta What I thought looked wrong with the shield wall was the three or so tiers, that seemed testudo-esque as someone mentioned but the shield wall was just overlapping with the man next to you as you said. Or did they do fancier efforts?


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## Pingu (Oct 23, 2015)

hard to say. one tier is the norm when fighting as the 2nd rank are using spears to attack as well. against arrows though it would make sense but for hand to hand fighting i cant see it being practical - you would lose the press of weight needed from the rear ranks.

think of it like a rugby scrum. if you can force the opposing pack backwards you gain an advantage. in a shield wall if you can force your opponent to break their formation you can surge in and hit the rearmost ranks from bhind. if they turn to fiht you then their part of the shieldwall is weakeed and the smae happens there/

so the three tier thing just wouldnt work unless you vastly outnuymbered your opponant. inwhich cae you would just make a longer wall and curve round the flanks


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## Serotonin (Oct 24, 2015)

It's also why 2 handed axes were popular. They could pull apart the shield wall, hook over the top or stick in the shield.


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## Chilli.s (Oct 24, 2015)

Thought the battle scene lacked spears. The shield wall, if a real historical tactic would be countered and augmented with spears.


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## Pingu (Oct 24, 2015)

Serotonin said:


> It's also why 2 handed axes were popular. They could pull apart the shield wall, hook over the top or stick in the shield.



daneaxes dont really work in a shieldwall. thy need a fair bit of space to be effective. but they are scary as fuck to fight against when someone who knows what they are doing is weilding one

a shieldwall is a place for stabby weapons. shortswords and spears


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## Pingu (Oct 24, 2015)

Chilli.s said:


> Thought the battle scene lacked spears. The shield wall, if a real historical tactic would be countered and augmented with spears.



no doubting that the shieldwall was a real tactic. its both well documented and effective. spears were the weapon of choice for rhe 2nd rank as they are both easy to use and stabby. front rank was mainly short stabby stuff and for saxson and later periods handaxes

britons rarely fought with axes it was not a warriors weapon. the levies will have had some but the warrior caste thought them a peasants weapon. likewise bows were for hunting not battle. they were used but not in great numbers and archers were looked down upon


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## Belushi (Oct 24, 2015)

We even have pictures of one in action


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## Pingu (Oct 24, 2015)

see that bloke in the light green on the left of the picture?

hes just got everyone else killed he has - but the rest of them in this picture show what a shieldwall probably looked like. so lots of stabbing at legs and heads and you depended on the bloke on your right to use his shield to protect you (hence the term "right hand man"


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## Pingu (Oct 24, 2015)

just to hop back on topic.. i liked the show and will watch it again


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## MrSki (Oct 24, 2015)

In the books (IIRC) it mentions that the shield wall needs to protect the feet & obviously the heads of those involved. It is not impossible that the Vikings had learnt something of this from the Romans? If you survived a shield wall & lived to tell the tale then surely next time you were in one you you make sure that the bits that failed last time were sorted. Feet seemed to be the big thing in the books so presume the threat from arrows & overhead spears were already sorted with the third layer.


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## Pingu (Oct 24, 2015)

MrSki said:


> In the books (IIRC) it mentions that the shield wall needs to protect the feet & obviously the heads of those involved. It is not impossible that the Vikings had learnt something of this from the Romans? If you survived a shield wall & lived to tell the tale then surely next time you were in one you you make sure that the bits that failed last time were sorted. Feet seemed to be the big thing in the books so presume the threat from arrows & overhead spears were already sorted with the third layer.



i just cant see it working/ to have their shields like that you wouldnt be able to push properly and the wall would fail. the feet thing was why kite shields crept in. the shields move up and down btw during the fight . something to remember is that they were not lashed onto the arm like more modern shields. they were held by a central handle behind the boss so were easy to roll up and down to protect both the wielder and the man to his left.

to add- a shield wall is not a defensive formation as such. its an attacking formation and the idea is to break through your opponents shield wall and the your more rear ranks can wreak havoc with the rear ranks of the enemy (the bravest fought in the front so those at the rear were generally easy to kill)

obviously not been in a killy type wall but a proper one in a re enactment is a scary enough place to be and is utterly exhausting


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## A380 (Oct 24, 2015)

I loved the books and thought the programme was good. Glad that we don't have shield walls any more.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 27, 2015)

Ive read most of the books having come across them in various charity shops and enjoyed them muchly. 

I though the part one of the TV version was very good overall. Rutger Hauer was ace. Looking forward to the rest of the series.


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## JimW (Oct 27, 2015)

Rutger was good value, though by the looks of the trailers the odd shield wall and rectangular shields for Saxons look like fixtures unfortunately.


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## fizzerbird (Oct 28, 2015)

I'm struggling to remember where I've seen the young actor who plays  Uhtred as a boy? I'm sure I've watched him in something recently?


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## belboid (Oct 28, 2015)

fizzerbird said:


> I'm struggling to remember where I've seen the young actor who plays  Uhtred as a boy? I'm sure I've watched him in something recently?


Doctor Foster

Either that, or you're mistaken


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## fizzerbird (Oct 28, 2015)

belboid said:


> Doctor Foster
> 
> Either that, or you're mistaken


 YES!!!!! That's it!!!!

The son in Dr Foster Drama!

Thankyou! x


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 28, 2015)

JimW said:


> Rutger was good value, though by the looks of the trailers the odd shield wall and rectangular shields for Saxons look like fixtures unfortunately.



Probably taking the word wall rather to literally. Which is daft.

Thought it was ok, preferred Vikings. Rutger wasn't in it nearly enough. They also did a bit of chopping and changing of how Uthred gets captured.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2015)

A380 said:


> I loved the books and thought the programme was good. Glad that we don't have shield walls any more.


third from right seems to be having some trouble with his visor.


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## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2015)

Just watched the first episode. The Vikings sound like they are from Ireland and South Africa.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Just watched the first episode. The Vikings sound like they are from Ireland and South Africa.


the modern equivalents of the medieval scandinavian accent.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 28, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Probably taking the word wall rather to literally. Which is daft.
> 
> Thought it was ok, preferred Vikings. Rutger wasn't in it nearly enough. They also did a bit of chopping and changing of how Uthred gets captured.


I think Vikings had it better in terms of the drama and politicking. The Last Kingdom battle scenes were just as good imo.Also, Rutgers a legend etc but he is no Ragnar Loftbrook


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I think Vikings had it better in terms of the drama and politicking. The Last Kingdom battle scenes were just as good imo.Also, Rutgers a legend etc but he is no Ragnar Loftbrook



Well no, he's 60 odd years older for one thing.


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## trabuquera (Oct 28, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Just watched the first episode. The Vikings sound like they are from Ireland and South Africa.


 
... they are played by actors who are legit Swedes and Danes. (which is why their English sounds so much more English than the English actors playing the Saxons.)


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## bi0boy (Oct 29, 2015)

Hmmm well English actors did quite a bit of subtitled Old English in The Vikings which was cool, probably too adventurous for the beeb though.

I liked Matthew Macfadyen as the lead in Ripper Street but didn't feel he would pull off the lead in a Medieval drama, so that ended well.

I was surprised to see another Ripper Street star as Alfred though, that's a great casting decision.


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## JimW (Oct 29, 2015)

Seems to be veering away from the books and is getting a bit BBC formulaic. Not even convinced the changes have made it an easier-to-follow story. 
Is a while since I read the books though so maybe my memory's shonky.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 30, 2015)

I think its shaping up very well - with the characters more fleshed out than in the books - esp Brida and Arthur. Uba and Guthram were good value as well.


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## trabuquera (Oct 30, 2015)

Not bad, not bad at all, tho I get a bit annoyed with all the "oooh look at me aren't we naughty" provocative swearing (tits! humping! let's hump! and hump again!) - not that medieval ppl didn't swear or swive of course - I just think they're trying too hard to make it all adulty when BBC standards/budgets mean they can't dial up the gore to full cable-TV level.

Also like skinny nervy neurotic weirdo Alfred with his IBS (or was it coeliac disease?) - showing even weaklings had their place in this violent era


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## neonwilderness (Oct 30, 2015)

Just watching episode two now, Alfred is almost exactly as I'd imagined him from the books


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## StoneRoad (Oct 30, 2015)

I used to work with a guy who did Viking re-enactments, and Pingu is quite right about a shield wall - exhausting is an understatement.
After one battle he came into work with a bruise on his back, horse hoofed shape ! but no memory of being stood on by a horse.
Another time he brought some shields, a long handled Dane axe and some other stuff in to show us. The only safety concession is that the "fighting" weapons are blunt and chopping at the head/face is not allowed. He told us that the axemen would charge around the end of a shield wall, to roll it up as those on the edges or at the rear would be the "weaker" warriors. The defence was to have expert spearmen to hand as their weapons reach is similar and with a shield, better protected.


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## Cid (Oct 30, 2015)

Another Alfred fan here, well cast.


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## JimW (Oct 30, 2015)

Needed more beard. Not a lot more, but more. Hmph.


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## Pingu (Oct 30, 2015)

bit of deviation from the books but am liking it so far


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## Pingu (Oct 30, 2015)

StoneRoad said:


> I used to work with a guy who did Viking re-enactments, and Pingu is quite right about a shield wall - exhausting is an understatement.
> After one battle he came into work with a bruise on his back, horse hoofed shape ! but no memory of being stood on by a horse.
> Another time he brought some shields, a long handled Dane axe and some other stuff in to show us. The only safety concession is that the "fighting" weapons are blunt and chopping at the head/face is not allowed. He told us that the axemen would charge around the end of a shield wall, to roll it up as those on the edges or at the rear would be the "weaker" warriors. The defence was to have expert spearmen to hand as their weapons reach is similar and with a shield, better protected.



we tend to operate in 3s. one spearman a shield/swordsman and someone with a handaxe (the big dane axes are a bit later on timewise to the period we do ) handaxe and swordsman in front rank spearman 2nd rank. handaxe pulls shield, spearman getss stabby whilst swordsman defends/does opportunistic stabby stuff


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## Sprocket. (Oct 31, 2015)

Pingu said:


> - saxon and angle scum invade and conquer - saxon scum do stuff for a bit - the norse come in and do similar in the north



Whoa, whoa!
Have you a problem with immigrants?
You sound like a supporter of Briton First!


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## DotCommunist (Oct 31, 2015)

Anglia First  always


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## Pingu (Nov 1, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Whoa, whoa!
> Have you a problem with immigrants?
> You sound like a supporter of Briton First!



dumnonia defence league


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## Plumdaff (Nov 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Anglia First  always



Don't they do double glazing?


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## Artaxerxes (Nov 1, 2015)

Alfred is great, Uthred is really fucking annoying.

Really have changed the books havent they? Isn't Uthred about 12 when they have to flee? 

Amused by the sword, he doesn't use it much to fend off the attack, he also hands the blacksmith a small bit of Amber, then suddenly the amber hilt on the sword is HUGE!


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## A380 (Nov 2, 2015)

Just watched it on TIVO. Alfred seems excellent and similar to the way he is portrayed in the books.

Guessing the rectangular shields are to make it easier for people who haven't read the books or got any other knowledge of the period and so avoid the whole "are they the Germans" issue.


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## bi0boy (Nov 2, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Alfred is great, Uthred is really fucking annoying.



This. Also he keeps stabbing his sword into the ground, which as any peasant with a knife knows is the best way to fuck it up.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 2, 2015)

I'm thoroughly enjoying this. I note that BBC America is a couple of episodes ahead. The temptation to grab the next two episodes is strong...


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## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2015)

why are the non license paying rebel scum ahead of us. Fucking outrageous


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## bi0boy (Nov 2, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I'm thoroughly enjoying this. I note that BBC America is a couple of episodes ahead. The temptation to grab the next two episodes is strong...



The ones I got, not only did they have "BBC America" stamped on the bottom middle right of the screen (for all those US 4:3 retainers), but #thelastkingdom on the left side and frequent multi-colour pop-ups advertising Dr Who previews.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 2, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> The ones I got, not only did they have "BBC America" stamped on the bottom middle right of the screen (for all those US 4:3 retainers), but #thelastkingdom on the left side and frequent multi-colour pop-ups advertising Dr Who previews.



Thanks for the heads-up.  I loathe that on-screen branding shite. No doubt there'll also be jarring cuts to fit the adverts in.


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 2, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Thanks for the heads-up.  I loathe that on-screen branding shite. No doubt there'll also be jarring cuts to fit the adverts in.



There's no clean WEB-DL because it seems like it's only available on TV over there.


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 8, 2015)

Spoiler: spoiler for episode 5



Uttred is a right wanker 

It's all a bit predictable really, no originality. It comes a poor third after Vikings and GoT

The best scene was Alfred's coronation.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2015)

fast coming to the conclusion that uttred son of uttred is a gigantic bellend.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> It comes a poor third after Vikings and GoT


I watched ep 5 last night and literally thought 'I'm just watching this to tide me over till GoT'


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 12, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I watched ep 5 last night and literally thought 'I'm just watching this to tide me over till GoT'


yeh. but it won't, will it? not if the independent's on the ball about the season 6 release date


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2015)

I'm sure I'll find something else with swords and battle in it to bridge the gap. I hope


----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 12, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm sure I'll find something else with swords and battle in it to bridge the gap. I hope



It'll be shite like so much else with swords and fighting has been and forever will be.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 12, 2015)

Am enjoying it but.. . . 
Will stick with it, I managed to watch the BBC version of The Borgias so am capable of seeing this through!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Am enjoying it but.. . .
> Will stick with it, I managed to watch the BBC version of The Borgias so am capable of seeing this through!


the one with Jeremy Irons as the Borgia pope? thats excellent tele imo. It got a bit weak by season three but the first two were ace.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 12, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the one with Jeremy Irons as the Borgia pope? thats excellent tele imo. It got a bit weak by season three but the first two were ace.



No, that version was much better, I mean the 81 version with Adolfo Celi and Oliver Cotton. Yawn!


----------



## trabuquera (Nov 13, 2015)

Never thought I would say it of a BBC-vs-cable comparison, but the real problem with Last Kingdom is NOT lack of budget - it's lack of drama. don't know why but it is seeming increasingly tepid and who-caresy to me. the acting is just meh, the script not that smart, I'm not getting any sense of growing tension. just can't get into these people's heads, or care much about them. I'll keep watching but something more exciting had better happen soon.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2015)

I think the drama scenes with Alfred work cos of his weirdness and intenseness. Also: imagine being _that _fucking pious


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 14, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> No, that version was much better, I mean the 81 version with Adolfo Celi and Oliver Cotton. Yawn!



The 1981 version was pure filth by TV standards of the time. 13-year-old me loved it.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 14, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> BBC - History - Viking Weapons and Warfare



Wonder if there's a Chinese equivalent?   Have you ever seen the film Red Cliff?  I've often wondered how many of the tactics used (especially with the ships) were factual or whether it's just all glamourised Hollywood stuff


----------



## JimW (Nov 14, 2015)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Wonder if there's a Chinese equivalent?   Have you ever seen the film Red Cliff?  I've often wondered how many of the tactics used (especially with the ships) were factual or whether it's just all glamourised Hollywood stuff


This Australian Prof has written some interesting stuff about ancient warfare in China and deals with the Three Kingdoms era specifically: Man from the Margin, Morrison Lecture, Rafe de Crespigny Publications, Faculty of Asian Studies, ANU


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The 1981 version was pure filth by TV standards of the time. 13-year-old me loved it.


in the modern version Jeremy Irons has a threesome and Cesare fucks lucretzia on camera so I guess the church heads are right, we really are becoming morally lax and liken unto sodom and gommoragh


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 14, 2015)

JimW said:


> This Australian Prof has written some interesting stuff about ancient warfare in China and deals with the Three Kingdoms era specifically: Man from the Margin, Morrison Lecture, Rafe de Crespigny Publications, Faculty of Asian Studies, ANU



oh, thanks.  Will have a look (assuming it's not too long-winded)


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 14, 2015)

JimW said:


> This Australian Prof has written some interesting stuff about ancient warfare in China and deals with the Three Kingdoms era specifically: Man from the Margin, Morrison Lecture, Rafe de Crespigny Publications, Faculty of Asian Studies, ANU



That's interesting. I was randomly wondering last night what would have happened if the Roman Empire had invaded China. Ended up reading about the Five Pecks of Rice Rebellion and the Yellow Turban Rebellion. They certainly liked their rebellions over there then, most of them peasants' revolts linked to Daoist sects. Probs why the current lot are scared of Falun Gong.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 14, 2015)

JimW said:


> This Australian Prof has written some interesting stuff about ancient warfare in China and deals with the Three Kingdoms era specifically: Man from the Margin, Morrison Lecture, Rafe de Crespigny Publications, Faculty of Asian Studies, ANU



Whizzed through it, but not too much on the tactics used in battles


----------



## JimW (Nov 14, 2015)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Whizzed through it, but not too much on the tactics used in battles


No, but IIRC there's a bit where he deals with the decisive nature of the leader and his companions, who'd be a tiny well-armed elite, versus the bulk of the soldiery who despite sometimes being present in very large numbers were pretty much a peasant rabble easily broken. Think the Qin had been more of drilled force centuries earlier but by now it wasn't actually much of a tactical contest.
Quite a lot of the tactics described in the Romance are about establishing Zhuge Liang as that sort of Merlin figure and I wouldn't necessarily expect them to reflect reality so much.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2015)

Dragon Blade has an immense warrior dance off with the romans doing their moves then the chinese led by jackie chan doing theirs, one after the other. It was at that point I realised the film was entirely mental


----------



## rekil (Nov 14, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Dragon Blade has an immense warrior dance off with the romans doing their moves then the chinese led by jackie chan doing theirs, one after the other. It was at that point I realised the film was entirely mental


Former PD follower Cusack was not entirely convincing.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 14, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Dragon Blade has an immense warrior dance off with the romans doing their moves then the chinese led by jackie chan doing theirs, one after the other. It was at that point I realised the film was entirely mental



Not seen it, but for some reason I immediately thought of the tap dancing routine at the end of Zatoichi which was completely unexpected


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2015)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Not seen it, but for some reason I immediately thought of the tap dancing routine at the end of Zatoichi which was completely unexpected


I was hoping for acccurate roman vs china battles....but this was quite different. Jackie Chan sings in it  not a bad voice tbf

yeah its ludicrouse but the choreography of the combat and martial arts is sweet. Makes it worth the watch.


----------



## Sirena (Nov 26, 2015)

A friend of mine just noticed the horsemen are using stirrups.

He says they were introduced by the Normans and that is what gave the Normans their fighting edge.


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 26, 2015)

They were using kite shields last week too, which is also wrong.

I really wanted to like this series, but it's a bit shit really. Which is a shame


----------



## pinkychukkles (Nov 26, 2015)

Have come into this a couple of episodes in and I'm really enjoying it, historical accuracy of shield design notwithstanding  roll on next week. Then again, I can remember the original Robin of Sherwood TV series from the 80s complete with Clannad soundtrack so perhaps my opinion should carry no weight.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 26, 2015)

Robin..... The Hooded Man... 

[emoji1]


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2015)

alfred is basically like the viet cong now


----------



## tony.c (Nov 27, 2015)

I'm getting confused as I'm also watching Vikings Series 3 on Amazon at present.


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 27, 2015)

The second half of this video contains a damning critique of the weaponry that appears on The Last Kingdom


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2015)

tony.c said:


> I'm getting confused as I'm also watching Vikings Series 3 on Amazon at present.


first world problems ->->->


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2015)

Sirena said:


> A friend of mine just noticed the horsemen are using stirrups.
> 
> He says they were introduced by the Normans and that is what gave the Normans their fighting edge.


your friend is talking bollocks as the stirrups were in use well before the period under discussion. 

see e.g.

(j.f. verbruggen, 'the role of cavalry in medieval warfare', in the journal of medieval military history 3 (2005), p. 52)


----------



## Cid (Nov 27, 2015)

Sirena said:


> A friend of mine just noticed the horsemen are using stirrups.
> 
> He says they were introduced by the Normans and that is what gave the Normans their fighting edge.



Well he's wrong. They developed its effective use in cavalry charges but it was certainly around before them. Normans are vikings who have settled into the ways of the French aristos anyway, their technologies evolved from those cultures.


----------



## Ted Striker (Nov 27, 2015)

I did like the crowbarring in of the burning of the cakes scene 

Lots to resolve still in the final episode (I'm on US schedule)...Not sure they'll finish it well tbh...


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2015)

Cid said:


> Well he's wrong. They developed its effective use in cavalry charges


i think you'll find the byzantine cataphracts pre-dated the normans by some centuries.


----------



## Pingu (Nov 27, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> The second half of this video contains a damning critique of the weaponry that appears on The Last Kingdom




that is, basically, a discussion we have had in the pub soooooooo many times. no matter ho much you try to let it ride over you and attempt to ignore it it eats away at you until you end up screaming at the telly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 27, 2015)

I noticed another incidence of uttred chucking his sword point down into the ground. I feel sorry for the peon who has to sharpen it for him


----------



## Fez909 (Nov 27, 2015)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Wonder if there's a Chinese equivalent?   Have you ever seen the film Red Cliff?  I've often wondered how many of the tactics used (especially with the ships) were factual or whether it's just all glamourised Hollywood stuff


I watched Mulan the other day and there was a shield wall tactic used in that. No idea on the historical accuracy.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> fast coming to the conclusion that uttred son of uttred is a gigantic bellend.



Which one? Uttred son of uttred, or uttred son of uttred son of uttred?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I noticed another incidence of uttred chucking his sword point down into the ground. I feel sorry for the peon who has to sharpen it for him


you've earned yourself the famous pedant of the month award with your posts on this subject.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 27, 2015)

An ever shifting marshland whose currents and constants are known only to the locals (who are on your side) is the most perfect place to get your guerilla on. 


sim667 said:


> Which one? Uttred son of uttred, or uttred son of uttred son of uttred?



Can't keep all your uttreds in one basket


Pickman's model said:


> you've earned yourself the famous pedant of the month award with your posts on this subject.


It reminded me of a common fantasy and comic book fantasy scene. The dread hero/baddie walking grimly to his foe, dragging the sword along with its point on the ground. Bonus cheesy cliche points if its over a paved area and the tip is striking sparkks from the stone


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 27, 2015)

Apart from the marshy bit, does anyone else think that the filming location in Hungary doesn't really look like it could be 9th century England?


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 27, 2015)

I posted the same thing twice so I edited the second one.


----------



## Cid (Nov 28, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you'll find the byzantine cataphracts pre-dated the normans by some centuries.



Yeah... well... Huns. 

Ok I forgot about the cataphracts.


----------



## Cid (Nov 28, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Which one? Uttred son of uttred, or uttred son of uttred son of uttred?



He is Uhtred son of Uhtred. He _was_ Osbert son of Uhtred, brother of Uhtred.

Or, to put it another way, check before you say wrong things in a superior way.

unless it's about Byzantine cavalry


----------



## gosub (Nov 28, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Apart from the marshy bit, does anyone else think that the filming location in Hungary doesn't really look like it could be 9th century England?


thats the one bit that has gnawed at me, but understandable.  Really enjoying it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 28, 2015)

The Normans were just Vikings who realised that becoming Christian and getting paid a fortune in goods and land by the Franks to keep the peace.
Was easier than cruising around knocking the smoke out of the rest of Europe. They eventually did what their Viking forebears didn't quite manage and conquer England.


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 28, 2015)

DNA analysis shows most of England is far more Saxon than Viking. I guess they didn't have many sprogs with the natives and the Norman lot mainly just conquered the nobility.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 28, 2015)

Cid said:


> He is Uhtred son of Uhtred. He _was_ Osbert son of Uhtred, brother of Uhtred.
> 
> Or, to put it another way, check before you say wrong things in a superior way.
> 
> unless it's about Byzantine cavalry



This may be a spoiler



Spoiler



His child is also son of uhtred, thus uhtred son of uhtred son of uhtred


----------



## Cid (Nov 28, 2015)

sim667 said:


> This may be a spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: book



Briefly


----------



## sim667 (Nov 28, 2015)

Cid said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Briefly



Is this a spoiler for something in episode 6 or 7 or something?

I'm only on 5


----------



## Cid (Nov 28, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Is this a spoiler for something in episode 6 or 7 or something?
> 
> I'm only on 5



Ah, I thought you might have read them... 

I should probably have used 'book spoiler'.


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 28, 2015)

This would have been so much better without ootread. Sadly it's now done the "TV drama about Alfred" thing, so we won't get another one about Alfred for a while.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 28, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> DNA analysis shows most of England is far more Saxon than Viking. I guess they didn't have many sprogs with the natives and the Norman lot mainly just conquered the nobility.



It is often stated that the only people with Norman DNA are within the British aristocracy! Allegedly.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 28, 2015)

sim667 said:


> This may be a spoiler



The original Uhtred was known as Uhtred the Unimaginative.


----------



## Ted Striker (Nov 30, 2015)

Not a bad finale tbh. Hardly edge of seat stuff, and will avoid spoilers, though nice to see Father Berocca finally grow a pair.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Nov 30, 2015)

Ted Striker said:


> Not a bad finale tbh. Hardly edge of seat stuff, and will avoid spoilers, though nice to see Father Berocca finally grow a pair.


There's still 2 episodes to go (3rd & 10th Dec) where are you watching yours?


----------



## Ted Striker (Nov 30, 2015)

pinkychukkles said:


> There's still 2 episodes to go (3rd & 10th Dec) where are you watching yours?



From BBC america torrent


----------



## sim667 (Nov 30, 2015)

Ted Striker said:


> From BBC america torrent



I've got those downloaded, but I can't deal with 4:3 anymore


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 2, 2015)

Spoiler



Alfred being the bad-ass again with that not forgiving stuff

The moment kinda spoiled by Leofric then going "FUCKING AVE IT! RARRRRRGH!"


----------



## ringo (Dec 2, 2015)

Getting bored. Read the first two book earlier this year and gave up on reading any more because the story line is so linear and boring. What's happening in the other kingdoms? What are the other Vikings doing? What's going on in Ireland and Wales? Who are the British spies in other regions and what are they up to? Why are there so few characters with lines? 

There is no breadth or intrigue, the BBC can't really be expecting this to compete with Game Of Thrones. One of the most interesting periods of British history, about which we know a great deal, and all we see is one unlikeable idiot galloping about.


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 3, 2015)

Well, I quite enjoyed it. It's hardly GoT, but then, not much is.

Warning to those thinking of watching it on the American torrents: the editing (presumably because of ad breaks) completely ruins a few scenes. Wait for the British broadcast if you can.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 3, 2015)

When I saw them making out that the Vikings knew how to use shield walls and the Britons didn't I was like ah it's going to be one of these is it. Oh and using round shields to form tortoises. 

It was at that point I was able to classify the whole thing as just fiction as enjoy it as such rather than thinking of it as historical fiction.


----------



## trabuquera (Dec 3, 2015)

ringo said:


> Getting bored. Read the first two book earlier this year and gave up on reading any more because the story line is so linear and boring. ..  no breadth or intrigue ...


 
this is not necessarily a criticism, but I also noticed there's a bit of a similarity between Uhtred and that other Cornwell hero Sharpe, in that there are regular scheduled stops for romancin' with various amenable but under-realised female characters who all think he's just brilliant, and he's sort of honourable but sort of not. It's a bit old-fashioned.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2015)

can't say as I've noticed much bodice ripping in the show. Sharpe on the other hand, sharpe would get his end away guarenteed, sometimes thrice in a story.


----------



## JimW (Dec 3, 2015)

He's only got one plan.
"Uhtred, that thatch is leaking."
"We burn the ships!"


----------



## neonwilderness (Dec 3, 2015)

Slightly better episode this week. I think that's due to this one being centred more around Alfred who's the best portrayed character IMO. 

The bit on the marshes was the bit I was most looking forward to, so hopefully they'll end the series well


----------



## ringo (Dec 4, 2015)

neonwilderness said:


> Slightly better episode this week. I think that's due to this one being centred more around Alfred who's the best portrayed character IMO.



After all my moaning that was the best one yet. Even po-faced Alfred did a bit of decent acting, and the Queen finally got a decent part. The burning of the cakes was a damp squib though, they shouldn't have bothered shoe-horning that in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2015)

JimW said:


> He's only got one plan.
> "Uhtred, that thatch is leaking."
> "We burn the ships!"


hey, if it ain't broke don't fix it


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> this is not necessarily a criticism, but I also noticed there's a bit of a similarity between Uhtred and that other Cornwell hero Sharpe, in that there are regular scheduled stops for romancin' with various amenable but under-realised female characters who all think he's just brilliant, and he's sort of honourable but sort of not. It's a bit old-fashioned.


the way the soldiers depicted very similar to sharpe, e.g. leofric and the referee at the abortive fight to the death.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> can't say as I've noticed much bodice ripping in the show.


there's been a lot of moaning about anachronistick weaponry in the show; now you want women to be shown wearing garments which emerged in the sixteenth century. you can't have it both ways, dotcommunist.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you've earned yourself the famous pedant of the month award with your posts on this subject.



to be fair the poits didnt need to be sharp. swords like that are slashing weapons so the edge would have been whetted sharp but the point didnt need it.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> there's been a lot of moaning about anachronistick weaponry in the show; now you want women to be shown wearing garments which emerged in the sixteenth century. you can't have it both ways, dotcommunist.



i have put aside my dislike of inaccurate historical "gubbins" as i am quite enjoying it BUT

when that first arrow was shot in the "make them angry" bit i just couldn't hold back. 

 

they got it right in the later scenes so why get this one wrong?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2015)

Pingu said:


> i have put aside my dislike of inaccurate historical "gubbins" as i am quite enjoying it BUT
> 
> when that first arrow was shot in the "make them angry" bit i just couldn't hold back.
> 
> ...


because the bbc like to include something for everyone and some people are always looking for mistakes.


----------



## Pingu (Dec 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> because the bbc like to include something for everyone and some people are always looking for mistakes.



how very inclusive of them. but they really dont need to.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> there's been a lot of moaning about anachronistick weaponry in the show; now you want women to be shown wearing garments which emerged in the sixteenth century. you can't have it both ways, dotcommunist.




i was using bodice to basically mean any womenswear that existed pre 1983.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> i was using bodice to basically mean any womenswear that existed pre 1983.


you say that now


----------



## trabuquera (Dec 4, 2015)

speaking of fashion, I thought Breda's fetching shearling jacket in last night's instalment was so bang on-trend for autumn 2015 it was hilarious.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 4, 2015)

I was hoping Alfred's miserable wife was going to die this week but it was not to be


----------



## Gromit (Dec 10, 2015)

Did they really have to go PC and plop a Joan of Arc character into this that most probably would never have existed?

If we were in Westeros I'd be all for it but in ye olde england. It just wouldn't have happened.


----------



## JimW (Dec 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Did they really have to go PC and plop a Joan of Arc character into this that most probably would never have existed?
> 
> If we were in Westeros I'd be all for it but in ye olde england. It just wouldn't have happened.


Alfred's daughter Aethelfleada (sp?) later became a war leader of the Mercians, both historically and in later books in the series. So women certainly could take that role at the time.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 10, 2015)

JimW said:


> Alfred's daughter Aethelfleada (sp?) later became a war leader of the Mercians, both historically and in later books in the series. So women certainly could take that role at the time.



A war leader. These things usually happened when there was no male heir. I'll bow to your superior knowledge on that But would this Aethelfleada have actually fought in the battle failing a sword around with as much success as this warrior nun did?


----------



## JimW (Dec 10, 2015)

Gromit said:


> A war leader. These things usually happened when there was no male heir. I'll bow to your superior knowledge on that But would this Aethelfleada have actually fought in the battle failing a sword around with as much success as this warrior nun did?


Her husband was the hereditary lord of Mercia but a combination of her talents and no doubt kudos from kinship with Alfred meant the Mercians chose to follow her after her husband's death (IIRC) ETA instead of various male heirs available. She did lead them in campaigns and battles.
So not exactly like the nun, but she was hardly the most problematic bit of that battle scene.


----------



## ringo (Dec 11, 2015)

Enjoyed last night's episode, they managed to to do a bit that was better than the book. And reminded me how shit and scary it must be to be in a battle.


----------



## trabuquera (Dec 11, 2015)

Interesting: a hoard's just been unearthed dating ffrom exactly this period, and gives all sorts of insights into just how complicated and mucky this formation-of-England business really was - all the explanation and some good pics here:
The History Blog  » Blog Archive   » Alfred the Great-era hoard found in Oxfordshire

(and Proper Historians seem to rate the series more highly than we do!)


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2015)

^^theres a piece in thre graun about that. Alfred Cake Burners sliver pennies are worth more than 2,500 K! and if you get one from the period some of this haul are from when there was two kings on the coin cos of short-lived mercian alliance? You're loaded.

The only fly in the ointment of this find story is that the finder is a retired advertising exec


----------



## Pingu (Dec 11, 2015)

well the guys i do reenactment stuff with are all moving from the welsh group we are in to a new saxon group. (the main reason seems to be that trousers are warmer than tunics but i also suspect that a change in leadership of the group has played a part)

will be interesting to see the differences.


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Dec 11, 2015)

There are a few things that really annoy me about this show now. 

One of which is the music. What does Mongolian throat singing have to do with Britain? And when it is not throat warbling it some bizarre 1970s soundtrack with electronic chords.


----------



## ringo (Dec 11, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> and Proper Historians seem to rate the series more highly than we do!



Yeah but they're talking about TV programme making, not detailed historical accuracy:

"Character development that makes sense. Battle scenes where you can actually see things happening clearly without giving up a sense of dynamic movement. Brilliant cast. Historically accurate sets. It’s as good as it gets, imo, when it comes to televised historical fiction."

Anyway, whaddayamean Proper Historians?


----------



## trabuquera (Dec 11, 2015)

professional apologies to you ringo if you're a history don (or Don) - I'm definitely NOT any sort of historian - Proper or any other kind!


----------



## ringo (Dec 11, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> professional apologies to you ringo if you're a history don (or Don) - I'm definitely NOT any sort of historian - Proper or any other kind!



Nah, I was an archaeologist for years but not any more


----------



## JimW (Dec 11, 2015)

ringo said:


> Nah, I was an archaeologist for years but not any more


All in the past, as it were? Groan.


----------



## ringo (Dec 11, 2015)

JimW said:


> All in the past, as it were? Groan.



A life in ruins etc etc


----------



## Bonfirelight (Dec 11, 2015)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> There are a few things that really annoy me about this show now.
> 
> One of which is the music. What does Mongolian throat singing have to do with Britain? And when it is not throat warbling it some bizarre 1970s soundtrack with electronic chords.



I quickly grew to hate Uthreds introductions too. "I am Uthred son of Uthred.. destiny is all"
Put my teeth on edge that did.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2015)

Bonfirelight said:


> I quickly grew to hate Uthreds introductions too. "I am Uthred son of Uthred.. destiny is all"
> Put my teeth on edge that did.


lol there was a hint of the russel crowe macho speechifying to it. I prefer normal recaps


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2015)

ringo said:


> Nah, I was an archaeologist for years but not any more


keep digging


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 11, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> lol there was a hint of the russel crowe macho speechifying to it. I prefer normal recaps



It's the BBC, they think Americans are too stupid and distracted to know what they're watching - hence the permanent on-screen hashtag for US audiences.


----------



## Bonfirelight (Dec 11, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> lol there was a hint of the russel crowe macho speechifying to it. I prefer normal recaps


Yeah, i couldn't place it but you're right. Father to a murdered son etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> It's the BBC, they think Americans are too stupid and distracted to know what they're watching - hence the permanent on-screen hashtag for US audiences.


but are they right?


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Dec 11, 2015)

Bonfirelight said:


> I quickly grew to hate Uthreds introductions too. "I am Uthred son of Uthred.. destiny is all"
> Put my teeth on edge that did.



Yes, very reminiscent of the intro to He-Man 

I quite enjoyed the show when it first started but as the season wore on I enjoyed it less and less until it started to annoy me. The bad CGI, it always seemed to be late winter / early spring, it was obviously filmed on the continent and not where it is set. Oh I could go on... when you watch something like Marco Polo you realise just how amateurish the production of TLK was.


----------



## gosub (Dec 11, 2015)

most annoying was the terrain, but not a lot they could do about it.  too hard to find untouched space in genuine Wessex these days


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 11, 2015)

gosub said:


> most annoying was the terrain, but not a lot they could do about it.  too hard to find untouched space in genuine Wessex these days



I'm sure Ireland would have been a better stand-in than Hungary, and most things seem to be filmed there these days


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2015)

gosub said:


> most annoying was the terrain, but not a lot they could do about it.  too hard to find untouched space in genuine Wessex these days


tbh even things about the c19 not filmed in london any more due to dearth of appropriate buildings.


----------



## JimW (Dec 11, 2015)

"Destiny is all" is not the best translation of _wyrd bið ful aræd _which is repeated often in the books - it's more like fate is inexorable/will work its course apparently, I reckon 'destiny is all' suggests a more modern pursuit of goals rather than the medieval submission to larger forces.
And now over to Professor Spondlicks for his paper on precursors to the button in Saxon textiles, then we break for tea and biscuits.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 11, 2015)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> There are a few things that really annoy me about this show now.
> 
> One of which is the music. What does Mongolian throat singing have to do with Britain? And when it is not throat warbling it some bizarre 1970s soundtrack with electronic chords.



I loved the track they used in a few "solemn moments" like Alfred's Coronation. Anyone know if they wrote it themselves or nicked it?

here it is


----------



## gosub (Dec 11, 2015)

JimW said:


> "Destiny is all" is not the best translation of _wyrd bið ful aræd _which is repeated often in the books - it's more like fate is inexorable/will work its course apparently, I reckon 'destiny is all' suggests a more modern pursuit of goals *rather than the medieval submission to larger forces.*
> And now over to Professor Spondlicks for his paper on precursors to the button in Saxon textiles, then we break for tea and biscuits.


not read the books but from the program would say it means exactly the opposite: No, I will not be preying to this 'god' bloke to try and change things.  
Oh and duffle, probably made of bone.


----------



## JimW (Dec 11, 2015)

gosub said:


> not read the books but from the program would say it means exactly the opposite: No, I will not be preying to this 'god' bloke to try and change things


Then you'd be wrong  ETA and that's what I mean about the version in the programme giving the wrong impression. He doesn't believe in the Christian God, but he does believe strongly in the working of fate.
The quote (ETA about fate I mean) comes from an early poem called The Wanderer, just looking it up forgot these cracking verses:
Where is the horse gone? Where the rider?
Where the giver of treasure?
Where are the seats at the feast?
Where are the revels in the hall?
Alas for the bright cup!
Alas for the mailed warrior!
Alas for the splendour of the prince!
How that time has passed away,
dark under the cover of night,
as if it had never been!

Wealth is lent us, friends are lent us,
Man is lent, kin is lent;
All this earth's frame shall stand empty.


----------



## gosub (Dec 11, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> (and Proper Historians seem to rate the series more highly than we do!)




wasn't even aware of the books.  Remember thinking after watching the first one, proper edutainment, Lord Reith would be proud...and then reading the reviews, much like on here calling it a poor man's Game of Thrones, one I read (Mail - it was the pub's copy) said it needed more dragons, it deserves boosting.


----------



## MrSki (Dec 11, 2015)

gosub said:


> wasn't even aware of the books.  Remember thinking after watching the first one, proper edutainment, Lord Reith would be proud...and then reading the reviews, much like on here calling it a poor man's Game of Thrones, one I read (Mail - it was the pub's copy) said it needed more dragons, it deserves boosting.


The books are good. Certainly better than the Game of Thrones series. They are fiction set in historically accurate surroundings/events.


----------



## gosub (Dec 11, 2015)

MrSki said:


> The books are good. Certainly better than the Game of Thrones series. They are fiction set in historically accurate surroundings/events.


Sort of thing I like, dragons not so much (unless they are Welsh)


----------



## Spod (Dec 14, 2015)

I have really enjoyed the whole series but yes the music does not go with it. When I heard that I think of hot middle eastern areas not piss-wet cold Britain. 

AND more importantly Leofric has been killed off! 

 even when blood was spurting from a neck wound I never though he would die. Even when lying on the ground at the end I expected him to cough and say 'Takes more than that to kill me Arseling!"  Gutted



Teenage Cthulhu said:


> There are a few things that really annoy me about this show now.
> 
> One of which is the music. What does Mongolian throat singing have to do with Britain? And when it is not throat warbling it some bizarre 1970s soundtrack with electronic chords.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Dec 14, 2015)

I think the music is supposed to evoke the mystical ancients but it sounds more to me like everyone's having an asthma attack.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 14, 2015)

Spartacus: Blood and Sand had it right for the fight scene music. Shredded guitar sound heavy metal


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Dec 14, 2015)

They blatantly saw Marco Polo and thought they'd have some of that.


----------



## trabuquera (Dec 14, 2015)

I should have been bang in the bull's eye middle of the target audience for this one and yeah um no. It just came over as pound-shop second-best substitution - not even ersatz Game of Thrones (as no fantasy element) - but a slightly neutered version of every medieval pic ever. Even on a smaller budget than cable/amazon/whatever other nu-telly productions can rustle up, it could and should have been darker, fiercer and MUCH MORE DRAMATIC than it was. Also I booed it for the unceremonious deflowering (and loss of second sight) + almost immediate swift and grisly death for seer woman, who was more interesting than anyone else around tbh.


----------



## Belushi (Dec 14, 2015)

It was shit, knobhead son of knobhead.

Shame as there's a great series to be made about Alfred the Great.


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Dec 14, 2015)

It started off promising.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 15, 2015)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> It started off promising.



First episode was ok but it took a steep nose dive when grown up Uthred showed up.


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Dec 15, 2015)

Looking very like Jon Snow. I wonder why!


----------



## Pingu (Feb 14, 2016)




----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 14, 2016)

Pingu said:


> .


That was like a video of my internal dialogue.


----------



## Pingu (Feb 14, 2016)

he does an interesting piece on the shield wall too. which totally makes sense. I never understood the logic behind the closeness.


----------



## Cid (Feb 14, 2016)

I never noticed the mini-cart...


----------



## Gromit (Feb 15, 2016)

Pingu said:


> he does an interesting piece on the shield wall too. which totally makes sense. I never understood the logic behind the closeness.


I refer the right honourable gentleman to my post of the 3 December where I already called bullshit on it.


----------



## Cid (Feb 15, 2016)

Gromit said:


> I refer the right honourable gentleman to my post of the 3 December where I already called bullshit on it.



You said:



Gromit said:


> When I saw them making out that the Vikings knew how to use shield walls and the Britons didn't I was like ah it's going to be one of these is it. Oh and using round shields to form tortoises.
> 
> It was at that point I was able to classify the whole thing as just fiction as enjoy it as such rather than thinking of it as historical fiction.



Which added nothing to the already extensive discussion of shield walls mostly emanating from the right honourable gentleman you just mentioned. The video Pingu mentioned discusses how the shoving match version of shield wall tactics doesn't actually make a lot of sense, thus adding to the discussion in a way that you did not.


----------



## gosub (Jan 6, 2017)

Burning through the series 1 on BBC2 at mo, presume second series is imminent


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 6, 2017)

Looking at the IMDb first episode of season 2 synopsis I thought for a moment that Uthred had left the show, but alas I see from some celeb gossip site that this is not the case.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 6, 2017)

There are eleven books in the Uthred series, he might be around for a bit longer.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 6, 2017)

Sprocket. said:


> There are eleven books in the Uthred series, he might be around for a bit longer.



Oh dear, I'd assumed it was a King Alfred series. 

Maybe they'll do the fashionable thing and diverge from the book plot.


----------



## gosub (Jan 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Oh dear, I'd assumed it was a King Alfred series.
> 
> Maybe they'll do the fashionable thing and diverge from the book plot.


not while there is a vacancy on bake off.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 18, 2017)

Apparently season 2 has started. Was the first episode promising?


----------



## trabuquera (Mar 18, 2017)

More of the same really.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 18, 2017)

Uttred is still a cock
Alfred is still the cleanest man in westeros. I mean middle earth. Olden days.

Schemes to get back parts of the danelaw

Not sure where the hot nun came from but there is one, travelling with utredd son of etc


----------



## A380 (Mar 19, 2017)

Good only slightly mindless stuff. I like the books which have more to them than some of Cornwell's other stuff ( which I also like). 

As always the program is very pretty, not just Uthhred and Hild but most of the others too, plus lots of ok-ish CGI.

I'll even accept why the need to change the Saxon/English shields to non round so the shield wall  battles make sense to all viewers.

I'll keep watching.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Mar 19, 2017)

Man-bun male model protagonist just doesn't work for me.


----------



## Spod (Mar 23, 2017)

Its decent. I dont mind the stuff pissing others off like stirrups and shield shapes as im not that knowledgable on history to notice. The only thing that bugs me the intro/out-tro sound track. Sounds more Middle-Eastern than Middle-England.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 26, 2017)

alfreds loyalty to his liege men appears to be about as sincere as his baking efforts.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 3, 2017)

I've just started watching series 2 and am sorry to say I'm finding it a bit dull. Really enjoyed the 1st series but it's just not grabbing me this time.


----------



## Spod (Apr 13, 2017)

2nd series not bad at all but most of Uhthred's enemies were killed off in the last episode. Theres only his evil uncle left isnt there? 

Also why is Uhthred wearing so much eye liner now? He seems to be turning into Capn Jack Sparrow.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 13, 2017)

Spod said:


> 2nd series not bad at all but most of Uhthred's enemies were killed off in the last episode. Theres only his evil uncle left isnt there?
> 
> Also why is Uhthred wearing so much eye liner now? He seems to be turning into Capn Jack Sparrow.


there's always new enemies out there, chuck.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 13, 2017)

Judging by the shades of lipstick going around there must be a branch of Superdrug in Eoferwic.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 13, 2017)

The young women in this series (Alfred's daughter and Gisela) do seem dischordantly modern-looking.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2017)

its the same with vikings. Hadn't noticed it till Trabueqera pointed it out, all the women in vikings are modernly made up, the salon quality hair etc.

I'm assuming Alfred being King means he gets to spend a lot of time in the bath because nobody else is that clean or has a beard so neatly trimmed


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 13, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Judging by the shades of lipstick going around there must be a branch of Superdrug in Eoferwic.


swpyerdrwg i think you'll find


----------



## trabuquera (Apr 13, 2017)

Anachronistic makeup is one of the most infuriating / amusing aspects of historical telly drama for me, because it's SO obvious and blatant. Not an "oh, it's a modern problem down to the ruthless demands of our image-driven instagram age", either - think all those 1960s sword&sandal epics with all the girls in fake lashes and cats'eyes eyeliner, or Sophia Loren in _El Cid _wearing pneumatic bras owing much more to 1961 Paris than 1091 Spain, or _I Claudius_ with all those classic 1970s chalky faces, pale lips and big wigs ...  other people get hung up on whether shield shapes or hemlines or bodice silhouettes are right for the era, but the slap is My Thing. Bugs the tar out of me when Victorian dramas have female characters turning up in lipstick and eyeshadow when it just Was Not Done in that era ...


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 13, 2017)

Thing is, I get that it will always be a contemporary spin on historical costumes and hair... but most historical dramas make some effort.  No one looks straight off the set of hollyoaks on Game of Thrones, for example.  They tend to look a bit ragged around the edges.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 13, 2017)

I find it quite amusing and also somewhat depressing that it is possible to date any TV historical drama by the women's hair and make up. Never fails.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 13, 2017)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I find it quite amusing and also somewhat depressing that it is possible to date any TV historical drama by the women's hair and make up. Never fails.


yeh 80s ones really stick out


----------



## Rebelda (Jan 2, 2019)

Watched all three seasons of this in a fortnight. Twice  think I might need to read the books.

Eta: it was nice to not notice a huge difference in the third series switch to Netflix production. Turns out they still have 80% of the original team/crew.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 2, 2019)

Rebelda said:


> Watched all three seasons of this in a fortnight. Twice  think I might need to read the books.


I somehow ended up with two copies of the first book, so you can have one if you like 

I’d recommend The Warlord Chronicles too. A similar story, but set in Arthurian Britain instead. It’s also only three books, so an easier read


----------



## Rebelda (Jan 2, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> I somehow ended up with two copies of the first book, so you can have one if you like
> 
> I’d recommend The Warlord Chronicles too. A similar story, but set in Arthurian Britain instead. It’s also only three books, so an easier read


Ooh yeah go on then, ta  

Re recommend the other to me this time next year when I'm qualified


----------



## Spod (Jan 4, 2019)

Well done to Netflix in rescuing it. People talk about dating the dramas by the hair and makeup (80, 90s etc). in this one, Uhtred gets make over every new series (we are on "series 3 - The Undercut" atm)


----------



## Rebelda (Jan 4, 2019)

Love Brida in that respect. Only makeup she has is dirt apparently


----------



## Spod (Jan 7, 2019)

Now she rid of the curse, she is in a race to get up the duff. To the extent that she will even go back to the tent with Ed Sheeran's creepy viking uncle.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 7, 2019)

I've read two thirds of the latest book over the weekend, so I might try watching the series again once I've finished. 

It will be strange going back to young Uhtred, he's in his 60s now


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 7, 2019)

Spod said:


> Now she rid of the curse, she is in a race to get up the duff. To the extent that she will even go back to the tent with Ed Sheeran's creepy viking uncle.


----------



## Rebelda (Jan 9, 2019)

Spod said:


> Ed Sheeran's creepy viking uncle.


 Ugh Cnut. Love Finan - 'you're a what?'


----------



## rekil (Jan 9, 2019)

That oirish accent attempt is horrific.


----------



## Spod (Jan 9, 2019)

Must admit I didnt think it was too shoddy. In fact its only now ive just looked that I know he is not Irish (Scottish apparently). On another note was glad that Sigefrid hasnt bailed. I like this crew and hope they dont kill them off like they did Leofrich and Magnus Samuelssons character. In the case of Leofrich it looks like their market research cohorts agree with me hence they he is popping up in Uhted's conscience



copliker said:


> That oirish accent attempt is horrific.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 9, 2019)

Spod said:


> In fact its only now ive just looked that I know he is not Irish (Scottish apparently).


Finan? He's Irish in the books.

He gets some of the best lines too


----------



## Rebelda (Jan 9, 2019)

Leofric was the best. And Halig, I sobbed 



neonwilderness said:


> Finan? He's Irish in the books.
> 
> He gets some of the best lines too


He means the actor. The actor isn't Irish, hence the, ah, less than perfect (and location free ) brogue  when Ragnar asks if he and Uhtred are brothers now <3 

I'm obsessed  I've even been doing my hair like a Viking


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 9, 2019)

Rebelda said:


> Leofric was the best. And Halig, I sobbed


I can't quite remember what happened to them now, it'll be a surprise when I watch it 



Rebelda said:


> He means the actor. The actor isn't Irish, hence the, ah, less than perfect (and location free ) brogue  when Ragnar asks if he and Uhtred are brothers now <3


Ah right. I suppose he's fairly well traveled, so might get away with the accent.



Rebelda said:


> I'm obsessed  I've even been doing my hair like a Viking


Pics?


----------



## Rebelda (Jan 9, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> I can't quite remember what happened to them now, it'll be a surprise when I watch it
> 
> 
> Ah right. I suppose he's fairly well traveled, so might get away with the accent.
> ...


Oh sorry, spoilers 

 

Surprisingly hard to take a pic


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 9, 2019)

Rebelda said:


> Oh sorry, spoilers
> 
> View attachment 158163
> 
> Surprisingly hard to take a pic


Not really a spoiler tbf, I've read it but just forgotten


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jan 9, 2019)

I watched the first two series as a sort of background music to what ever I was doing ie surfing interweb, eatin* my dinner etc. Third series properly picked up and went a bit “vikings” and fully had my attention.

It might be due to getting proper speakers for my telly box and watching in HD


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 27, 2019)

I’ve nearly finished season 2 now. It’s seems pretty faithful to the books from what I remember and most of the characters are as I imagined them too  

You can tell where they’ve changed things presumably due to a small budget though. The battle at York in season 1 for example.  Also Alfred’s plastic crown 

Uhtred’s accent is beginning to grate a bit though


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jan 28, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> Uhtred’s accent is beginning to grate a bit though



It's Uhtred that's killed this for me in the end. He's such an insufferable little twat


----------



## neonwilderness (Jan 28, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> It's Uhtred that's killed this for me in the end. He's such an insufferable little twat


It’s a shame that Leofric isn’t still around to keep him in check. 

His arrogance comes across much better in the books tbf


----------



## Spod (Feb 1, 2019)

He should be arrogant! He's a god-damn unkillable fighting machine!  When he has a sword that is, if not, he gets lamped out by the big buggers. 


neonwilderness said:


> It’s a shame that Leofric isn’t still around to keep him in check.
> 
> His arrogance comes across much better in the books tbf


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 1, 2019)

Spod said:


> He should be arrogant! He's a god-damn unkillable fighting machine!  When he has a sword that is, if not, he gets lamped out by the big buggers.


Yeah he should be arrogant, which he is in the books. But he's also quite likeable, which doesn't come across as much in the TV series for me. As Mrs Miggins said, he's an insufferable little twat


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 3, 2019)

Why didn’t anyone tell me that The Actor Kevin Eldon was in season 3? I’d have started watching it sooner


----------



## BristolEcho (Feb 17, 2020)

Just rewatched episode 9 of the last series where Alfred dies. Far to much emotion.


----------



## BristolEcho (Apr 19, 2020)

New series next week on Netflix.


----------



## neonwilderness (Apr 20, 2020)

I might re-watch the last few episodes of series 3 before then to remind myself how far they got with the plot.

The final book (thirteenth - Uhtred the pensioner ) is out later in the year too


----------



## BristolEcho (Apr 20, 2020)

neonwilderness said:


> I might re-watch the last few episodes of series 3 before then to remind myself how far they got with the plot.
> 
> The final book (thirteenth - Uhtred the pensioner ) is out later in the year too



I'm on book 6 at the moment need to wait before starting it as I binged the others. 

Series 3 is worth a rewatch.


----------



## neonwilderness (Apr 20, 2020)

I’ve got book 12 to read, but I’ll leave that until after watching series 3/4 otherwise it’ll just get confusing


----------



## Rebelda (Apr 20, 2020)

I can't wait!


----------



## neonwilderness (Apr 20, 2020)

Rebelda said:


> I can't wait!


Read the books


----------



## Rebelda (Apr 20, 2020)

neonwilderness said:


> Read the books


But but but the Vikings are so sexy on Netflix. I need a holiday then i will


----------



## Rebelda (Apr 29, 2020)

First 4 episodes are GOOD


----------



## neonwilderness (Apr 30, 2020)

First episode down. Great so far and it seems fairly faithful to the books.

Although I recently re-read The Winter King series and keep getting the stories mixed up (the two main character stories are quite similar)


----------



## rekil (May 1, 2020)

That Irish accent is (still) horrific. He sounds like Ross O'Carroll Kelly. "Oi'll kick you up the orse mister voiking."


----------



## neonwilderness (May 1, 2020)

The crossbow bit at the end of episode two was a bit  too.


----------



## BristolEcho (May 2, 2020)

As a side note I really love the soundtrack to this.


----------



## neonwilderness (May 3, 2020)

The sickness in episode six is fairly topical


----------



## Plumdaff (May 3, 2020)

We got through the series in about two nights. Thoroughly enjoyed it.


----------



## Rebelda (May 3, 2020)

I finished yesterday. Excellent and well set up for more seasons


----------



## neonwilderness (May 4, 2020)

Just finished the last episode after bingeing most of the series yesterday 

The general storyline is still fairly faithful to the books, although there’s quite a bit of artistic license and a few  bits. But overall it’s a decent adaption and makes for some great telly. 

When does series five start?


----------



## platinumsage (May 12, 2020)

Do the books make King Edward the Elder to be so utterly useless?

From his wiki it seems he was actually up there with Alfred, at least militarily.


----------



## marshall (May 12, 2020)

Doesn't young Athelstan become the king that truly rivals Alfred in 'greatness'?


----------



## Rebelda (May 12, 2020)

neonwilderness said:


> Just finished the last episode after bingeing most of the series yesterday
> 
> The general storyline is still fairly faithful to the books, although there’s quite a bit of artistic license and a few  bits. But overall it’s a decent adaption and makes for some great telly.
> 
> When does series five start?


Which bits are ? 

I'm looking forward to s5 already. 



Spoiler: S4 context



I'm assuming Brida will be the enemy (although one thing i love about TLK is there are no clear cut sides).


----------



## neonwilderness (May 12, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Do the books make King Edward the Elder to so utterly useless?
> 
> From his wiki it seem he was actually up there with Alfred, at least militarily.


It's been a while since I read the books (War of the Wolf is the last one I read, so a couple of years ago), but I don't remember him being quite so useless. He's still heavily reliant on Uhtred though.


----------



## neonwilderness (May 12, 2020)

Rebelda said:


> Which bits are ?


There were a few bits which I think* were different from the books. The main one that sprang out was the bit with Stiorra and Sigtryggr, although the end result is the same. On the other hand the bit where Uhtred was holding the two sons in the building was almost exactly like the book to the point where I thought I'd already watched the episode.

Also that trap with the ditch covered in branches was completely ridiculous 

* I recently re-read The Warlord Chronicles (which you should also read and should be made into a series ) though, which are fairly similar, so I could be confusing the two.


----------



## Rebelda (May 12, 2020)

neonwilderness said:


> the bit with Stiorra and Sigtryggr


Yeah i assumed a fair bit of the fluffy heart warming bits with Stiorra and little Uhtred were made for the screen. She is especially well cast though, she could completely be Gisela's daughter.


----------



## BristolEcho (May 12, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Do the books make King Edward the Elder to be so utterly useless?
> 
> From his wiki it seems he was actually up there with Alfred, at least militarily.



Listening to the British History podcast Edward wasn't particularly great and his sister did much better. 

Cornwall did obviously play up on traits or make things worse though. For example there is not any evidence that *Æthelred was a prick. *


----------



## neonwilderness (May 12, 2020)

Rebelda said:


> Yeah i assumed a fair bit of the fluffy heart warming bits with Stiorra and little Uhtred were made for the screen. She is especially well cast though, she could completely be Gisela's daughter.


Tbf they do have a bit of a heart to heart in the before she gets on the ship, but it is a bit less fluffy. Agreed on the casting 



BristolEcho said:


> Listening to the British History podcast Edward wasn't particularly great and his sister did much better.


Yeah it’s that way in the books too, Æthelflæd is the more successful of the two.


----------



## Rebelda (May 12, 2020)

I think i read or watched something where Bernard Cornwall admits he was very unfair to Aethelred and made him awful for the purpose of the plot.


----------



## BristolEcho (May 13, 2020)

Rebelda said:


> I think i read or watched something where Bernard Cornwall admits he was very unfair to Aethelred and made him awful for the purpose of the plot.



Yeah at the end of each book (I am on 5) he says that he has been awfully unkind to him. Works for the story though.

Down to episode 8 loving it so far probably get it done this week.


----------



## BristolEcho (May 18, 2020)

Finished.



Spoiler



"Okay Edward wasn't great, but he wasn't that bad IRL. He was really annoying me with his stupid face. End of the road for Aislelswith too? Did think they've probably ran out of thread for her, but a good arc. Enjoyed it overall. Wasn't sure on the new Dane at first didn't think he had much presence, but he pulled it off. Heasten sneaking off too again!

Personally think the first 4-5 episodes were great and like season finales.. Think it lost a tiny bit of steam as it went on, but still solid 7-8/10 episodes.


----------



## donkyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

finished 1st episode of season tree.

liking this a lot. but amusing that non of the characters age at all.


----------



## neonwilderness (Mar 7, 2021)

donkyboy said:


> liking this a lot. but amusing that non of the characters age at all.


I think season 4 is about half way through the books, so there’s still a way to go. Uhtred is an old man by the last book though and as you say he’s barely aged so far in the show


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## BristolEcho (Mar 7, 2021)

neonwilderness said:


> I think season 4 is about half way through the books, so there’s still a way to go. Uhtred is an old man by the last book though and as you say he’s barely aged so far in the show



Think the series is finishing after the next one? I'm on book 9 I think and it's just ahead of parts of the main story now. He's in his late 40's to early 50's I think at this part of the book and feeling his age, but still top.


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## donkyboy (Mar 7, 2021)

taking my time watching it though. dont want to finish it too quick.  So mostly watched on a friday. will download season 4 soon.


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## neonwilderness (Mar 7, 2021)

BristolEcho said:


> Think the series is finding after the next one? I'm on book 9 I think and it's just ahead of parts of the main story now. He's in his late 40's to early 50's I think at this part of the book and feeling his age, but still top.


So another two series to go? I guess that’s probably enough to wrap everything up.



Spoiler: Book spoilers 



Series five to recapture Bebbanburg and six to do the bit in London and then becoming Lord of the North?



That sounds about right age wise, I think he’s about 60 by the end. I wonder how they’ll address that, it’ll be a bit weird if he doesn’t age at all 

I might rewatch it again soon now that I’ve finished the books.


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## neonwilderness (Mar 7, 2021)

Read the books yet Rebelda?


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## BristolEcho (Mar 7, 2021)

neonwilderness said:


> So another two series to go? I guess that’s probably enough to wrap everything up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry meant to say I think the 5th Series is the last but I could be wrong. I keep an eye on the Reddit page from time to time and think I read it in there.

On aging from a producer:



Spoiler: Aging



"We have that problem now, getting into season five where Uhtred is technically, I think he starts at 54 and ends up at 60 in the books.

"I mapped it out once with the help of a friend of mine, called Wendy, and she put a whole timeline together for me. In season five he's supposed to start at 54 I think and ends up as 60.

"That's a problem right now because how do we make it look like Uhtred has aged without looking comical?"



I've enjoyed the books and it's coincided with me learning more about the time period in general. Looking forward to the next series as I generally thinks it's been great.


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## neonwilderness (Mar 7, 2021)

You think they might have given his age some thought before series five 

If five is the last series I hope they don’t end up rushing it or skipping parts of the story.


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## Rebelda (Mar 8, 2021)

neonwilderness said:


> Read the books yet Rebelda?


Nope  on a S4 rewatch though.


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## neonwilderness (Mar 8, 2021)

Rebelda said:


> Nope  on a S4 rewatch though.


Ffs


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## donkyboy (Apr 23, 2021)

Season 5 filming. Looks like there will be no aging of characters-judging by the female lead


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## Rebelda (Mar 10, 2022)

Season 5


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## Spymaster (Mar 10, 2022)

Started watching it this week but have forgotten the end of S4 so rewatching the last couple of episides of that first.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Started watching it this week but have forgotten the end of S4 so rewatching the last couple of episides of that first.


Tried that didn't help


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## BristolEcho (Apr 3, 2022)

Finished it. Loved it really solid ending for the series and the death scenes in this series always tug at my heart strings. Said before, but the music is amazing. Looking forward to the film which will follow Athelstan as king.


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## neonwilderness (Apr 11, 2022)

I finally started watching series five at the weekend. I'm intrigued about how they're going to tie up all the plot as I'm pretty sure they're only up to book eight or nine of thirteen. I guess some will carry over to the film, but still 

ION it's good to see that The Warlord Chronicles has eventually been picked up for a series (I read this before The Saxon Stories and it's always been my favourite) 









						‘Warlord Chronicles’ Gets TV Adaptation From ‘His Dark Materials’ Producer Bad Wolf In First Project Under Sony (EXCLUSIVE)
					

Jane Tranter’s Bad Wolf has set up its first major drama since joining Sony Pictures Television, Variety can reveal. The company is adapting the first book in Bernard Cornwell’s “…




					variety.com


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## BristolEcho (Apr 11, 2022)

I'm going to work the way through the rest of his books over the next couple of years. 

I felt they did a good job of the series and it leads on to the film well.


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## neonwilderness (Apr 17, 2022)

Just finished series five, enjoyed it. There’s still a couple of books left, but I guess they'll be covered in the film. This seemed like a natural place to finish the series.

I think the plot deviated from the books a few times, but the overall story arc was the same. Their version of Bamburgh was beefed up for TV too. I don’t remember it being that cliffy IRL 

(I bet Rebelda still hasn't read the first book )


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## BristolEcho (Apr 18, 2022)

I'd love to go and visit the castle there at some point! Glad you enjoyed it. It does go against the book a fair amount, but is well done and Cornwell seems really happy with it even though he wasn't that heavily involved so that's good enough for me. 



Spoiler: Spoiler



Everyone seemed to love Heastan's ending, but I preferred his book ending.

Also we see Uthreds other son at the end.


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## Chilli.s (Apr 18, 2022)

BristolEcho said:


> I'd love to go and visit the castle there at some point!


For the castle aficionado that area is superb, it would take days to visit them all, they range from hill fort to palatial, pile of stones to intact and habitable


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## Rebelda (Apr 24, 2022)

neonwilderness said:


> (I bet Rebelda still hasn't read the first book )


She has not


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