# Blood and Honour Gig 28th Jan, London



## intersol32 (Jan 12, 2012)

Link from Indymedia below.

"London Calling"

Includes Brutal Attack, 4 Aces, Mistreat and Stevie.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/01/491006.html?c=on#c278018


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## Riklet (Jan 12, 2012)

Will there be Oi though?


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## editor (Jan 12, 2012)

*Tries to give a fuck


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## AKA pseudonym (Jan 12, 2012)

too widely reported to happen.. there will be changes of evenue etc..... lets hang round tube stations


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm trying to recollect why it was imperative they were opposed before and now imperative that they are not opposed.


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## Jazzz (Jan 12, 2012)

think I'll give it a miss.


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## intersol32 (Jan 12, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I'm trying to recollect why it was imperative they were opposed before and now imperative that they are not opposed.



Good point. Any constructive debate on this would be much appreciated.

It's especially interesting now that several Anti-Fascists have recently served jail terms for bashing a couple of B+H on the way to a gig.

Maybe someone should have reminded them that the rest of the left couldn't actually give a fuck.


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## editor (Jan 12, 2012)

Who cares about a bunch of useless, going-nowhere bands that no one gives a fuck about playing some shit hole or another, anyway?


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Good point. Any constructive debate on this would be much appreciated.
> 
> It's especially interesting now that several Anti-Fascists have recently served jail terms for bashing a couple of B+H on the way to a gig.
> 
> Maybe someone should have reminded them that the rest of the left couldn't actually give a fuck.


I give a fuck and I give respect to all the anti fascists both AFA and Antifa. . I think the reasons for opposing Blood and Honour are as valid today as they were back in the day (of the battle of Waterloo).

Opposing Blood and Honour keeps their clientèle on the back foot, unconfident and fearful. Letting them have free rein leads to all sorts of shit.


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## krink (Jan 12, 2012)

spot on TC, i would want to do something to stop this if it was in my area. i remember what it was like last time they were confident and i think it's better to stop them before they start.


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## intersol32 (Jan 12, 2012)

Blood and Honour are still in business and happy to carry on promoting their poisonous anti-working class agenda. We may accept that on an organisational level B+H went into a decline after Waterloo and then Stuart's death, but I don't see any excuse in not opposing them in some form because their gig attendances went from 1000 per event to 500.

Anything that causes these deluded arseholes to reconsider, or watch their step, is beneficial to anyone who holds progressive politics. Further to this it actually helps build confidence in the radical left.

At present we're in a situation (much like the early 80's) where apart from a small militant minority, the left are constantly associated with Middle Class pacifism. The resurrected corpse of the ANL under the UAF banner is being allowed to set the public image. And as such it does nothing but present itself in terms of 'victimhood'. They expect to use terms like "Smash the EDL" and then hope for sympathy from the majority of observers when their meetings get trashed. It's no wonder they have difficulty in relating to the working class (the base from which the EDL, BNP, B+H etc draw from) if they insist on collecting together a crowd of unicyclists, jugglers, college students and members of the Labour Party.

But unfortunately it is correct to affirm that this is the acceptable public view of "Anti-Fascism" in England today.


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## 8ball (Jan 12, 2012)

Would these bands be composed of those 'urban' types that I hear the Met are watching so closely these days?


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## intersol32 (Jan 12, 2012)

8ball said:


> Would these bands be composed of those 'urban' types that I hear the Met are watching so closely these days?



Expand on this for us?

If it's a case of stating that police surveillance of Fascist activity would cause a problem (or expose) Anti-fascists who oppose them, this has always been the case.

Granted that technology and intelligence gathering has increased significantly, it's a case of adapting the tactics to acknowledge that. Rushing into pubs that are now festooned with CCTV wouldn't be wise, but (despite what many suggest) the "surveillance society" is not 100% and probably never will be. Besides this, our own use and awareness of technology can also be beneficial to activists in some instances.

(apologies if this isn't exactly what you were getting at!).


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## Libertad (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck over the fash. Wherever, whenever.


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## 8ball (Jan 12, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> (apologies if this isn't exactly what you were getting at!).



No prob - case of crossed wires - I was referring to this story.


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## grit (Jan 12, 2012)

I've seen this lot mentioned a few times on the forum, any links to a good history of them?


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## intersol32 (Jan 12, 2012)

B+H?

The only decent link is probably the Wikipedia (below). Their activities are traced throughout the 'Beating the Fascists' book too, which probably gives the best account of the 'Battle of Waterloo' in particular.

I've read through the Blood and Honour "history" on their website, but it's pure, pure shite. If you thought David Irving was a revisionist crackpot this takes the biscuit. They may as well try and assert that the Siege of Stalingrad was a German victory, it's so full of inaccuracies and lies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Honour


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## Sue (Jan 12, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Their activities are traced throughout the 'Beating the Fascists' book too, which probably gives the best account of the 'Battle of Waterloo' in particular.[/quote]
> 
> Available from http://beatingthefascists.org/


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## Fedayn (Jan 12, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> think I'll give it a miss.



Probably a sensible idea. Apparently they're none too enamoured with Jewish folk.


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## Blagsta (Jan 12, 2012)

neither is Jazzz, tbf


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## butchersapron (Jan 12, 2012)

Searchlight put out a book called white noise - most def not recommending it by any means, just suggesting it as another possible source for those coming with no background here.


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## Jazzz (Jan 13, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> neither is Jazzz, tbf


please stop stalking me.


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## editor (Jan 13, 2012)

We've already given this bill of clueless no-marks more publicity than they'd ever hope to get.

Yep: search for "Blood and Honour Gig 28th Jan" and we're #1, ffs.

Great work, OP.


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## Casually Red (Jan 13, 2012)

[quote="intersol32, post:



> They expect to use terms like "Smash the EDL" and then hope for sympathy from the majority of observers when their meetings get trashed.



theyre pretty much asking for that tbh



> It's no wonder they have difficulty in relating to the working class (the base from which the EDL, BNP, B+H etc draw from) if they insist on collecting together a crowd of *unicyclists, jugglers, college students and members of the Labour Party*.



my instinctive reaction to such people is that they could all do with a good slap come to think of it . However the downside is that johnny fascist gets to boast in the pub to his impressionable hangers on about all the hidings he dished out to the reds , reds who have in fact been giving it the big un while being unable to stand their ground . Then gets himself a larger impressionable following whod like to emulate him .

Unless someday Johnny fascist hobbles into the pub on crutches with his nose all over his face ,and has to shamefacedly explain how the reds kicked him round the place he's likely to go from strength to strength thanks to the street cred oppotunities that are being handed to him on a plate by those talking about smashin him but who shy from confrontation with him . Thanks to uncicylists , jugglers , yoghurt knitters and muesli enthusiasts bandying around slogans like Smash the EDL which they have neither the intention or ability to do. Which are , lets face it, a direct come on to those of a more robust and physical orientation .

Nobody should be making the chalenge of _smashing_ them , with all the connotations that go with that term , unless they intend following through on it . Every failure that follows on from that is an advance for the scum in my view .


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## Blagsta (Jan 13, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> please stop stalking me.


You are paranoid.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

grit said:


> I've seen this lot mentioned a few times on the forum, any links to a good history of them?


I've seen a document about this, will dig it out and put it on latet


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

that document said:
			
		

> *The history of Blood & Honour*
> 
> Blood & Honour emerged in 1987 after the demise of the National Front’s ‘Rock Against Communism’ project. Founded by Skrewdriver singer Ian Stuart, who had a long history of involvement with the National Front and British Movement, Blood & Honour takes its name from the motto of the Hitler Youth, ‘Blut und Ehre’. And it did not take long before Blood & Honour showed they had taken more than their name from the Third Reich: a September 1988 article in the _Guardian_ reported that an early issue of _Blood & Honour_ magazine declared they would ‘follow the example of the one uncorruptible ideal: National Socialism and its great martyr, Adolf Hitler’.[1]
> 
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> The violence associated with Blood & Honour events was mentioned above. This was recognized in a 1993 Early Day Motion submitted to the House of Commons by Peter Hain and supported by 71 MPs:
> EDM 1474
> 
> NAZI ACTIVITY IN HUNTINGDON
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> Some consideration must be given to the internal workings of this scene. Until Ian Stuart’s demise, German label Rock-O-Rama were the exclusive producers of Skrewdriver material, as well as the recordings of every other British band bar No Remorse.[1] This meant that Nazi imagery, lyrics and so on were banned. More importantly, from the C18 perspective, it meant that profits were limited: Lowles claims that Neil Parish bought imported records for £8 and sold them at a £2.50 profit.[2] When ISD Records (ISD: Ian Stuart Donaldson) was set up and began producing their own CDs, the £2.50 profit per CD leapt to £8.[3] These CDs were pressed by a variety of mainstream manufacturers who did not investigate the material they were producing.[4] The ability to get CDs pressed and to distribute them gave the controllers of Blood & Honour great influence as well as the money which flowed in. They could now determine who was able to distribute the merchandise in each country. Of perhaps greater importance was the control this gave of the bands within the fascist scene. Charlie Sargent, the best known member of C18, declared after a spat with one band that
> It should be remembered that we pay the bands up front 100 CDs or £1,000 for each thousand we press, as soon as they are available, most get two or three trips abroad each year free to play gigs. They make money out of the concerts by selling T-shirts, sweatshirts, etc. Jonesy [Steve Jones, lead singer of English Rose and Bulldog Breed, whose defection caused this outburst] makes money out of a skinzine he sells at gigs. Surely that’s enough money for bands involved in Blood & Honour.[5]
> The power over band’s appearances, not to mention the amount of money in Blood & Honour’s gift, gave C18 considerable power. But other organisations wanted part of the action, and the argument referred to above led indirectly to the British Movement putting an English Rose gig on in Heanor, Derbyshire in March 1996. This gig was significant because C18 believed the British Movement was organizing a rival scene. C18 decided to squash this competition, and called out its supporters. By the time the location of the gig was established only about 10 of the 80 who had turned out were left. The result was a humiliation for C18, who tried, and failed, to shoot some of their rivals involved in the Heanor gig.[6]
> 
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> The Rt Hon Alan Johnson MP
> Home Secretary
> Home Office
> 2 Marsham Street
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> *BELGIUM*
> Raids across five army barracks and private houses netted Belgian police 17 fascists, including the ring leader, a serving soldier, who was a member of the Blood & Honour Flanders group. The raids, in Antwerp, Limburg and east Flanders, recovered weapons and an improvised explosive device. The group is said to have targeted soldiers for recruitment.[1] In April 2007, Serbian Blood & Honour leader Dragan Perovic, resident in the Czech republic, was reported to be raising money for the detained Belgians.[2]
> 
> In November 2008 two Dutch man – one a Hitler lookalike – were fined for a Nazi tribute at a German war cemetery in Flanders. They were both fined €1,000. Besides the Nazi tribute, the pair also fomented discrimination and racial hatred aimed at asylum seekers, Turks, Moroccans and homosexuals.[3]
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> *GERMANY*
> Blood & Honour’s German branch received increasing attention from the German government in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Incidents such as the murder of three Turks in Molln in 1992 had shown the German fascism had not been eradicated, and as the decade progressed concern about right wing extremists deepened. A report in August 2000 stated that ‘the homeless as well as Asians and Africans have to be careful in certain German regions, especially in some areas around Berlin, where extremists have created what they call “national liberated territories”’.[1] The following month Germany proscribed Blood & Honour because it used music, magazines and the internet to disseminate racist national socialist views.[2] Shortly afterwards a riot occurred when police broke up a Blood & Honour concert in Lueneberg – 46 police officers were injured and 32 fascists arrested.[3] Despite the ban, a report in July 2001 declared that the far-right was thriving.[4] Evidence of the continuing existence of Blood & Honour, and its health, was provided by a series of raids across Germany in April 2002, when German police raided 43 locations in seven states in a crackdown on the group. Items seized included semi-automatic weapons, revolvers and parts of machine guns.[5] Further raids on Blood & Honour supporters took place in March 2006; as well as CDs, clothing and other merchandise, police seized a pistol and a hand grenade.[6] More than a hundred buildings were raided across seven of Germany’s sixteen states.[7] At the end of 2008 Blood & Honour were reported to be active again in Thuringia.[8]
> 
> *GREECE*
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> *POLAND*
> Polish prosecutors opened an investigation into the website of Blood & Honour in February 2006, focussing on an internet database containing the names of alleged homosexuals, Jews and left-wingers. The organisation was appealing for further information on those listed. Investigators were looking at whether data protection laws had been broken, and whether the website sought to incite violence and promote fascism.[1] In May of the same year, Polish authorities sought the help of the US government to shut down a server hosting the site; following the publication of the lists earlier in the year one of the people named had been stabbed and nearly killed.[2] The Polish authorities asked for help as the server was in the United States. Police raids in June 2006 saw the arrests of two men thought to administrate the site.[3] The website was closed down in July 2006, following collaboration between the FBI and Polish police and its suspected administrator charged with ‘propagating totalitarian state systems, inciting hatred and violence toward people of different sexual orientation, political or religious convictions’.[4] _Technology Daily_ noted that the website had been linked to attacks on human rights activists and journalists.[5] However, Polish radio reported a week later that the website was back up again.[6] The Polish authorities were still having trouble with the website in April 2008.[7] A police operation in June 2007 in the central Polish town of Bialobrzegi saw a man with Blood & Honour connections arrested; material recovered included information about bomb making.[8]
> 
> *RUSSIA*
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> *What happens at a Blood & Honour gig*
> An interesting and revealing gig report appears on one Blood & Honour website, which is worth considering at length.
> *B & H Kent Fund Raiser Gig *
> *4th October 2008 ~ England*
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2012)

> There is a lot in this gig review, taken from the Blood & Honour Central Division website. A number of important areas emerge from a close reading of this review, which provide insights into what happens at a Blood & Honour gig.
> The reviewer’s most obvious memory is the bonding he felt. He emphasises the ‘comradeship’ he experienced at the recent Ian Start Donaldson gig, that he was ‘warmly greeted’ and ‘made some new friends’ despite being new to the scene. He also declares that ‘it was inspiring to witness the unity within the association and amongst other groups and individuals present here’. The group experience is at the heart of this reviewer’s perception of the gig.
> ‘Emu’ sees the people at the gig as an oppressed and ignored elite. He talks about security precautions aimed at ‘those agents of the state that would happily see our patriotic voices stiffled [_sic_]’, about the apparently unfair bad press Blood & Honour receive – ‘the media hype about violence, trouble and thugs looking for trouble at these events’. He also mentions the difficulty in spreading the white power message: ‘There was still some time to talk to my new found friends about trying to wake up the nations people to the suicide and perils they face living in todays hell-hole’.
> An important aspect of Blood & Honour gigs is the formation and reinforcement of the audience’s views. This occurs both through the music and lyrics of the bands, examples of which are given below in the lyrics section, and through socialising with other people at the gig. ‘Emu’ states that the audience ‘all share the same ideas, believes and aims’, suggesting that he has already spent some time within the radical right. Simon Frith notes that music gives us ‘immediate experience of a collective identity’, which empowers and exhilarates.[1] Frith continues, observing that ‘we use pop songs to create for ourselves particular sort of self-definition, a particular place in society’.[2] This heady mix, when alcohol is stirred in, seems from ‘Emu’s’ report to allow serious discussion and debate of the most outlandish notions without the ridicule it would attract elsewhere. The audience, ‘obviously united by their common patriotic, nationalist, white nationalist or national socialist ideals’, see themselves as the enlightened vanguard of the (white) British nation.
> ...


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## AKA pseudonym (Jan 13, 2012)

Top stuff Pickmans...


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## TopCat (Jan 14, 2012)

Well done mate.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

cheers!

obviously they're a bunch of no-marks.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

> *Blood & Honour lyrics*
> These lyrics were found on the Blood & Honour Highlander East Coast website, the website of one of their Scottish divisions. They are taken from CDs available from the website.[1] Lyrics of this sort are indicative of many bands who play Blood & Honour concerts.
> Black and Asian communities
> We’ll bomb your cities, destroy your towns
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

> Other lyrics from bands playing Blood & Honour gigs are no better, as this selection demonstrates. ‘Emu’ mentioned Whitelaw and Legion of St George. The Legion of St George’s ‘Hangman’s Knot’ is about the execution of John Amery in 1945 for treason. Amery helped raise the Legion of St George, known as the British Free Corps, for the Waffen SS.[1]
> 
> *Legion of St George, ‘Hangman’s knot’*[2]
> Wandsworth prison, sentenced to death
> ...


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## Sweetpea (Jan 14, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Probably a sensible idea. Apparently they're none too enamoured with Jewish folk.





Blagsta said:


> neither is Jazzz, tbf


How do you know this?


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## Blagsta (Jan 14, 2012)

Sweetpea said:


> How do you know this?


From his promotion of anti-semitic propaganda.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 14, 2012)

Where?


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

Here  on u75

do you think blagsta means on youtube?


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## Blagsta (Jan 14, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Where?


His promotion of David Icke, his opinions on the protocols, his linking to anti-semitic sites like prison planet, promotion of Alex Jones etc.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 14, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Where?



On top of what Blagsta said, he has also openly admitted to be friends with Nick Kollerstrom, who is a proven anti-semite.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 14, 2012)

Fair enough. Although when someone is clearly very, very bad at telling the difference between trustworthy and untrustworthy sources, the company they keep may be less reliable a guide to their personal prejudices than in the case of someone with rather more acuity. It's not an accusation to level lightly.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 14, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Fair enough. Although when someone is clearly very, very bad at telling the difference between trustworthy and untrustworthy sources, the company they keep may be less reliable a guide to their personal prejudices than in the case of someone with rather more acuity. It's not an accusation to level lightly.



Fair point.


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## butchersapron (Jan 14, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Fair enough. Although when someone is clearly very, very bad at telling the difference between trustworthy and untrustworthy sources, the company they keep may be less reliable a guide to their personal prejudices than in the case of someone with rather more acuity. It's not an accusation to level lightly.


Are you calling jazzz an idiot?


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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 14, 2012)

Not a useful one, though.


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## Blagsta (Jan 14, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Fair enough. Although when someone is clearly very, very bad at telling the difference between trustworthy and untrustworthy sources, the company they keep may be less reliable a guide to their personal prejudices than in the case of someone with rather more acuity. It's not an accusation to level lightly.


No, he knows what he's doing, its been pointed out enough times.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 14, 2012)

hey pickmans! where was that from?


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## The39thStep (Jan 14, 2012)

Useful report that came out two years ago

http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/files/1266928262_1.pdf


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Useful report that came out two years ago
> 
> http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/files/1266928262_1.pdf


yeh, that report's referred to in what i posted.


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## The39thStep (Jan 14, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, that report's referred to in what i posted.



wasn't referring to you cut and past.Already had the report that I posted and thought it useful to share


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> wasn't referring to you cut and past.Already had the report that I posted and thought it useful to share


it's surprising that so little's been written on the far right, especially the bnp and blood & honour.


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## The39thStep (Jan 14, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> it's surprising that so little's been written on the far right, especially the bnp and blood & honour.


 
Over the last five years or so there has been an increase ,especially academic research, on the BNP. Mathew Goodwin has pretty much made a career out of it. Very little on B&h but they are very very marginal.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Over the last five years or so there has been an increase ,especially academic research, on the BNP. Mathew Goodwin has pretty much made a career out of it. Very little on B&h but they are very very marginal.


there has been an increase in the number of articles, but we're still not talking about a great number and written by maybe 7 or 8 people


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## The39thStep (Jan 14, 2012)

Agreed but lets face it there wasn't that much written about the NF.Come to think of it very little about far left recently or the anarchist scene.


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## LLETSA (Jan 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Agreed but lets face it there wasn't that much written about the NF.Come to think of it very little about far left recently or the anarchist scene.


 
There's not really much of a market, just the far left reading about the far right and the far right reading about the far left. And both sides reading about each other.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Agreed but lets face it there wasn't that much written about the NF.Come to think of it very little about far left recently or the anarchist scene.


there's a reasonable amount on the nf, in fact. and you've not been paying attention if you think there's been little written about the far left or anarchists in recent years.


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## The39thStep (Jan 14, 2012)

Discussing B&H on here woukld be the equivalent of them discussing Permanent Revolutions last day school.


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## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Fair enough. Although when someone is clearly very, very bad at telling the difference between trustworthy and untrustworthy sources, the company they keep may be less reliable a guide to their personal prejudices than in the case of someone with rather more acuity. It's not an accusation to level lightly.


Hardly fair enough. I am Jewish, the idea that I am anti-semitic is absurd.

I generally don't bother dealing with posters that are hell-bent on making cheap slurs and lies. It isn't productive.

I'm sorry that they are still around urban75.


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## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> On top of what Blagsta said, he has also openly admitted to be friends with Nick Kollerstrom, who is a proven anti-semite.


I've gone to some trouble to have no further association with him.


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## Blagsta (Jan 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I've gone to some trouble to have no further association with him.



What are your views on the Protocols, Jazzz?


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## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> What are your views on the Protocols, Jazzz?


As previously requested. Kindly stop stalking me.


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## Blagsta (Jan 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> As previously requested. Kindly stop stalking me.



As previously observed, you are paranoid.

What are your views on the Protocols?


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## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> As previously observed, you are paranoid.


As previously stated, kindly stop stalking me.


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## Blagsta (Jan 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> As previously stated, kindly stop stalking me.



As previously stated, I'm not - you're paranoid.

What is your opinion on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Jazzz?


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## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> As previously stated, I'm not - you're paranoid.
> 
> What is your opinion on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Jazzz?


Kindly stop stalking me.


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## Fedayn (Jan 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Kindly stop stalking me.



You don't seem able to differentiate between stalking and someone asking a question that you refuse to answer.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 14, 2012)

so is the gig still on and if so, is anything going to be done against it?


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## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> You don't seem able to differentiate between stalking and someone asking a question that you refuse to answer.


It's hardly just this thread mate.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> It's hardly just this thread mate.


What are your views on the Protocols, Jazzz?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> think I'll give it a miss.


This is all Jazzz said to get this abuse.

Hardly warranted.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 14, 2012)

If I was an antisemite, I'd be rather suspicious of a supposed fellow antisemite who insisted that he was Jewish and denied, vigorously, that he had any antisemitic opinions. I'd certainly want to know a little bit more about the chap beyond his admiration for ex-Coventry goalies, before I invited him out for an evening's cemetery desecration.


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## Fedayn (Jan 14, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> It's hardly just this thread mate.



Just answer the question.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 14, 2012)

This is the shittest episode of Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? ever. Just phone a friend FFS.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 15, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Over the last five years or so there has been an increase ,especially academic research, on the BNP. Mathew Goodwin has pretty much made a career out of it. Very little on B&h but they are very very marginal.



agreed. they do their gigs and merchandise but do not have any electoral ambitions or apparently wider political ones, hence the media not bothering with them as the lack the glamour of C18!!! the music is crap as well.


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## The39thStep (Jan 15, 2012)

They are monitored through the PREVENT strategy. C18 didn't receive publicity because of glam but because they were promoted by the security services and were a honey trap.


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## intersol32 (Jan 15, 2012)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> so is the gig still on and if so, is anything going to be done against it?



Gig is still on as far as I'm aware. Apparently some folks over on Indymedia were discussing possible venues etc. You'll need to get in touch with any local groups or individuals closer to the action to see if anything is being arranged.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> They are monitored through the PREVENT strategy. C18 didn't receive publicity because of glam but because they were promoted by the security services and were a honey trap.


irony steps!


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## Quartz (Jan 16, 2012)

If nothing else, they should be done for ruining the name of a perfectly good book by Simon Green.


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## Red Storm (Jan 17, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> They are monitored through the PREVENT strategy. C18 didn't receive publicity because of glam but because they were promoted by the security services and were a honey trap.



I know it's widely believed that C18 was a honey trap but is there definative evidence?


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## intersol32 (Jan 17, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I know it's widely believed that C18 was a honey trap but is there definative evidence?



Charlie Sargent asking for his Special Branch handler as soon as he was arrested for the murder of Chris Castle was a good indicator! Especially since he was presented as the defacto 'leader' of the whole thing. Also other C18 members already working for Searchlight, which Gable and the BTF book confirms.


----------



## TopCat (Jan 17, 2012)

How tall is Charlie Sargent He looks about 4 foot 10?


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

He used to live up the back from me when I was still living in Camberwell. He is a proper short cunt. Mate up mine knocked him over by accident as we were coming out of the pub one night - didn't say a word. This was before anyone knew who he was, of course. He fucked off sharpish once his name got about.


----------



## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

Am fairly sure there were some good indicators of "Steriod" Browning being M15, too. Not short of a bob or two, either.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 17, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Charlie Sargent asking for his Special Branch handler as soon as he was arrested for the murder of Chris Castle was a good indicator! Especially since he was presented as the defacto 'leader' of the whole thing. Also other C18 members already working for Searchlight, which Gable and the BTF book confirms.



I thought the question sounded a bit skeptical when I wrote it but I didn't mean it that way, if that's how it came across 

I thought I'd seen evidence of it but I couldn't really remember. I just knew it was generally accepted that Charlie Sargent was bent.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 17, 2012)

TopCat said:


> How tall is Charlie Sargent He looks about 4 foot 10?



Where is that pic from? What's the background of it?

I recently saw the attempted interview with him by ITN (I think) about C18. Hilarious.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 17, 2012)

is there any definite evidence in print of this? end of the road for the 5 foot toad was the suns headline i think but not sure how accurate the height thing was!!!


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## malatesta32 (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> Am fairly sure there were some good indicators of "Steriod" Browning being M15, too. Not short of a bob or two, either.


anything in print on that PC?


----------



## TopCat (Jan 17, 2012)

The above pic is just what came up on a google search, no other info. It looks like someone reaching for the little fuckers throat!


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## Fozzie Bear (Jan 17, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Where is that pic from? What's the background of it?
> 
> I recently saw the attempted interview with him by ITN (I think) about C18. Hilarious.



I think the pic is from that interview - a bit of pushing and shoving when he was doorstepped by the camera crew.

I can confirm Sargent is pretty short, I had the misfortune of bumping into him and two younger goons at British Monomarks (as in "BM box whatever" London WC1N 3XX) when I was collecting my post at some point in the mid 90s. He was throwing his weight around and moaning about his mail not being forwarded to the right address or something. I got the fuck out of there swiftish.


----------



## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

Funny you should mention that.....

Three or four years back, I worked for Mary Ward Legal Centre for a year or so. whilst I was there (they've since moved offices) they hired some overspill office space directly above British Monomarks - and I used to go for my fag breaks in the courtyard directly outside the BM office. There were a number of fash who did a bit of a worried double-take, not realising that I was "off-duty" and hardly likely to land them a right hander outside my place of work - probably thought, "Oh no, the fuckers have tracked us down here" or something.


----------



## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> anything in print on that PC?



I think there was some stuff in NFB - I've also got a fash pamphlet indoors somewhere that makes the connection and draws the conclusion of Browning's state links on the basis that he managed to avoid jail time. Been a while since I read it, but my recollection (and bearing in mind it was a fash pamphlet) was that it was fairly well argued/non hysterical.


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 17, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Where is that pic from? What's the background of it?
> 
> I recently saw the attempted interview with him by ITN (I think) about C18. Hilarious.



That looks like one taken from the World in Action programme. Think it's the same one with Browning coming towards the camera with a hand in his pocket and one of the crew squeaking "watch it Julian! He's got a screwdriver!" or something in a sort of horrible Middle Class accent.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Browning was the other one talking to Searchlight. If I'm not mistaken it's mentioned in the BTF book that he was meeting regularly at a hotel with Gable (same hotel Gable used to meet AFA in when relations were more cordial).

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, as I've lent the book out at present.


----------



## manny-p (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> He used to live up the back from me when I was still living in Camberwell. He is a proper short cunt. Mate up mine knocked him over by accident as we were coming out of the pub one night - didn't say a word. This was before anyone knew who he was, of course. He fucked off sharpish once his name got about.


I heard he used to have no qualms about using a blade.


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## Deareg (Jan 17, 2012)

manny-p said:


> I heard he used to have no qualms about using a blade.


Him and another c18 member are doing life for murder after stabbing another fascist to death,

3 for the price of 1,

now that's a bargain!


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 17, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Him and another c18 member are doing life for murder after stabbing another fascist to death,
> 
> 3 for the price of 1,
> 
> now that's a bargain!



Aye, Martin Cross was the other 'aryan warrior'.


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## Deareg (Jan 17, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Aye, Martin Cross was the other 'aryan warrior'.


He got kicked unconscious one night by Matty Blagg and some other Red Action members at the end of a particularly fruitful night of sniping.


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## intersol32 (Jan 17, 2012)

Deareg said:


> He got kicked unconscious one night by Matty Blagg and some other Red Action members at the end of a particularly fruitful night of sniping.



I seem to remember Charlie Sargent getting a pounding at Waterloo as well. Pretty sure there's a picture of him looking unsteady with a busted face?

From what I recollect Charlie wasn't in reality much of a street fighter, the reputation was a myth put forth by Searchlight and an unattributable source in one of the daily papers who claimed he was "always busy with a tool".

Later on when the C18 fantasy was burst, it was echoed in the sentiments of those taken in by promises of glory when they turned on the Sargent brothers: "he (Charlie) breaks a couple of windows, and then expects us to go out and kill a thousand w*gs".

In fact his sad demise pretty much confirms that the only blood he drew was that of one of his comrades, when he stabbed him from behind due to money issues.


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> He used to live up the back from me when I was still living in Camberwell. He is a proper short cunt. Mate up mine knocked him over by accident as we were coming out of the pub one night - didn't say a word. This was before anyone knew who he was, of course. He fucked off sharpish once his name got about.



Old mate of mine from years back was a serious head amongst the Herd at Arsenal. He knew Sergeant from Arsenal and also mentioned how he wasn't very vocal in his politics. Once he was 'outed' as a fash he rarely ever showed his face at Highbury again...


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

As it goes, I'd not have remembered it was him if it wasn't for the fact that he was fairly regular in the boozer. Never said boo to a goose as I recall.


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> That looks like one taken from the World in Action programme. Think it's the same one with Browning coming towards the camera with a hand in his pocket and one of the crew squeaking "watch it Julian! He's got a screwdriver!" or something in a sort of horrible Middle Class accent.



Am sure Browning didn't feature in either the World in Action or Dispatches programme. Can't think of the bit you're talking about - most of this stuff is on youtube now. Think he's still in Surrey Docks.


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## intersol32 (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> Am sure Browning didn't feature in either the World in Action or Dispatches programme. Can't think of the bit you're talking about - most of this stuff is on youtube now. Think he's still in Surrey Docks.



It was certainly a brief appearance. The crew tried to doorstep him, and he sort of does a hop over a plank running up to a skip, and approaches them. He seems to hesitate a bit as no doubt the crew had a couple of security with them. There was definitely no 'interview' or words exchanged.

Last I heard he was back living in the Channel Islands and had been up in court with a local tattooist for trying to import a grands worth of Blood and Honour/ISD CDs. Although this was back in 2009:

http://www.thisisjersey.com/latest/2009/11/27/tattooist-acquitted/


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

That piece mentions a Deptford address - and I think something else I've seen recently (almost certainly on here - could even be this thread) talks about one of the B&H front companies having a Surrey Docks registered address. The place was right on the border of Deptford anyway, but Deptford probably sounds a little more earthy and intimidating to a journo's ear than Surrey Quays as it's called now.

Not doubting you about the footage, but have watched both the World In Action and Dispatches programmes on youtube tonight - the bit you're talking about isn't in either of them. Was there more than one documentary?


----------



## Casually Red (Jan 17, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Him and another c18 member are doing life for murder after stabbing another fascist to death,
> 
> 3 for the price of 1,
> 
> now that's a bargain!



their tribute to the night of the long knives presumably.


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> That piece mentions a Deptford address - and I think something else I've seen recently (almost certainly on here - could even be this thread) talks about one of the B&H front companies having a Surrey Docks registered address. The place was right on the border of Deptford anyway, but Deptford probably sounds a little more earthy and intimidating to a journo's ear than Surrey Quays as it's called now.
> 
> Not doubting you about the footage, but have watched both the World In Action and Dispatches programmes on youtube tonight - the bit you're talking about isn't in either of them. Was there more than one documentary?



Yeah, I'm sure there was more than one World in Action. Likely a couple more as Searchlight had a hand in doing them and were interested in inflating the 'threat' at the time. They're mentioned in the book again.


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

I'll see what I can dig up - the World In Action Combat 18 that I remember had Wicker and Sargent in it - it's in 3 parts on youtube, but I can't see Browning in that one.


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> Not doubting you about the footage, but have watched both the World In Action and Dispatches programmes on youtube tonight - the bit you're talking about isn't in either of them. Was there more than one documentary?



There was definitely a doc with footage of him walking down a street and being followed by an interviewer and camera crew, just out of his house I think, and he threatened the interviewer with a screwdriver. Laughingly made a joke later about it saying it was a rough place.


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## Red Storm (Jan 17, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> There was definitely a doc with footage of him walking down a street, just out of his house I think, and he threatemned the cameraman with a screwdriver. Laughingly made a joke later about it saying it was a rough place.



I watched it only yesterday. It's hilarious!


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## love detective (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> I'll see what I can dig up - the World In Action Combat 18 that I remember had Wicker and Sargent in it - it's in 3 parts on youtube, but I can't see Browning in that one.


the pic of sargent above was from the WIA one that had sargent and whicker in it (the one where he does the 'bullet in your head' thing at the end)



Browning was in the other WIA documentary on Lansdowne Road/C18 - with the scary screwdriver incident


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## love detective (Jan 17, 2012)

'the man has a screwdriver'


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

someone post a link up, ffs - could even just say which world In Action I look for on youtube.


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

love detective said:


> 'the man has a screwdriver'



Looks like a tube of tile grout to me.


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## love detective (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> someone post a link up, ffs - could even just say which world In Action I look for on youtube.



don't know if the browning one is on youtube (yet) - the pic was taken from hours of videotape that was transferred to digital for a promo video thing being done for BTF

edit: although red storm above said he watched it the other day so presume it is


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## love detective (Jan 17, 2012)

past caring said:


> Looks like a tube of tile grout to me.



that was a newspaper - the 'the man has a screwdriver' incident happened a bit later on


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 18, 2012)

past caring said:


> Looks like a tube of tile grout to me.



Funnily enough that's what Chris Castle said!


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## bignose1 (Jan 18, 2012)

love detective said:


> 'the man has a screwdriver'


cd


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## TopCat (Jan 18, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Him and another c18 member are doing life for murder after stabbing another fascist to death,
> 
> 3 for the price of 1,
> 
> now that's a bargain!


Anyone recollect what tarrif the short arsed little fucker got?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 18, 2012)

past caring said:


> Funny you should mention that.....
> 
> Three or four years back, I worked for Mary Ward Legal Centre for a year or so. whilst I was there (they've since moved offices) they hired some overspill office space directly above British Monomarks - and I used to go for my fag breaks in the courtyard directly outside the BM office. There were a number of fash who did a bit of a worried double-take, not realising that I was "off-duty" and hardly likely to land them a right hander outside my place of work - probably thought, "Oh no, the fuckers have tracked us down here" or something.





I always made an extra effort to be nice to the poor gits who worked at Monomarks. It was loon central on some days and I imagine it was a bit of a thankless task having to routinely talk to their clientelle.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 18, 2012)

Writing to zines and groups with BM addresses as a wee lad gave me a totally misplaced impression of glamour around British Monomarks.

The postcode still gives me the horn, though.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jan 18, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Writing to zines and groups with BM addresses as a wee lad gave me a totally misplaced impression of glamour around British Monomarks.
> 
> The postcode still gives me the horn, though.



It is boringly bureaucratic, but I did arrange to meet some cool people there too...

The ones you had to watch out for were the old guys in the dirty macs who would whisper their box number when they collected their mail and then shuffle off at pace. Oh and the transgendered person who talked to themself really loudly.

I imagine it's declined in use since the ascendancy of the net. I've still got box 3641 tho.


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## manny-p (Jan 18, 2012)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7131563709225580994#

Do youse recognise any of the fash from this documentary- 100% white?


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## TopCat (Jan 18, 2012)

manny-p said:


> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7131563709225580994#
> 
> Do youse recognise any of the fash from this documentary- 100% white?



I recollect seeing that documentary years ago and the people in it just came across as sad/washed up/lonely/desperate.


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## intersol32 (Jan 18, 2012)

manny-p said:


> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7131563709225580994#
> 
> Do youse recognise any of the fash from this documentary- 100% white?



Jesus, yes. Niel Parrish and Nick Marsh (never heard of the Colin fella before the doc). Parrish and 'Big Nick' were well known faces. Usually hanging around and doing security for the BNP. The photo of themselves and their wee gang (complete with face masks, air rifles and batons) was also used on the cover of an issue of Fighting Talk as I remember? They were also done for the Buntingford attack on a couple of Asian waiters.

Someone may need to correct this. But Parrish and his mate were basically squeezed out of the Blood and Honour merchandising role for fiddling the accounts, and from what I recall were persona non grata afterwards. No doubt this had some influence on them 'seeing the light' and renouncing their Fascist beliefs.

Probably the most disturbing thing is watching Parrish drive around in his VW camper (with pink fur interior) and dancing around at some rave club.

You can gather from the programme that most of them come from pretty messed up backgrounds, which likely had an effect on their political development. Some of it's completely mad and contradictory - like 'Colin' previously having a mixed race child with an Asian girlfriend.

I get the feeling from Parrish and Nick Marsh that they're looking back on their Fascist career and thinking "what the fuck was all that about?".


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> I get the feeling from Parrish and Nick Marsh that they're looking back on their Fascist career and thinking "what the fuck was all that about?".



I haven't seen it since it was first on telly and can't watch it right now, but didn't the raver one say towards the end (just after I had thought fariplay for changing) say that he admired David Copeland for going out there and 'doing somthing for his beliefs'.?


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 18, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I haven't seen it since it was first on telly and can't watch it right now, but didn't the raver one say towards the end (just after I had thought fariplay for changing) say that he admired David Copeland for going out there and 'doing somthing for his beliefs'.?



Not sure. But I know at the end it's claimed he's seeing three different therapists in an attempt to overcome his mental issues, and it's obvious at times some of the feelings from his past are just beneath the surface.

Sometimes I'm struck by how Fascist beliefs just don't translate in the real world, and the way in which groups like Blood and Honour etc provide a bubble or an idealistic lifestyle for them to exist and socialize in. A place where everyone thinks like you, and confirms your dysfunctional behaviour.

The problem occurs whenever they have to step outside of it and those thoughts and ideas are suddenly challenged. A mate of mine mentioned the other day, when we were talking about the Nazi scene with all of its fucking lunacy, holocaust denial, bullshit bands etc. He just said "how the fuck do you live every day with that in your head? You probably can't go to the corner shop or drink in the local without experiencing something that contradicts it".


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 18, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I haven't seen it since it was first on telly and can't watch it right now, but didn't the raver one say towards the end (just after I had thought fariplay for changing) say that he admired David Copeland for going out there and 'doing somthing for his beliefs'.?



it must be very hard to change if you've been in that mindset and that life for so long.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jan 18, 2012)

Not seen the documentary either, but it looks like the same blokes who feature in Leo Regan's "Public Enemies" book of photos of nazi skins.

http://hannahroberts3.blogspot.com/2010/10/public-enemies-leo-regan.html


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Not sure. But I know at the end it's claimed he's seeing three different therapists in an attempt to overcome his mental issues, and it's obvious at times some of the feelings from his past are just beneath the surface.
> 
> Sometimes I'm struck by how Fascist beliefs just don't translate in the real world, and the way in which groups like Blood and Honour etc provide a bubble or an idealistic lifestyle for them to exist and socialize in. A place where everyone thinks like you, and confirms your dysfunctional behaviour.
> 
> The problem occurs whenever they have to step outside of it and those thoughts and ideas are suddenly challenged. A mate of mine mentioned the other day, when we were talking about the Nazi scene with all of its fucking lunacy, holocaust denial, bullshit bands etc. He just said "how the fuck do you live every day with that in your head? You probably can't go to the corner shop or drink in the local without experiencing something that contradicts it".



sounds like anarchism or trotskyism


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## frogwoman (Jan 18, 2012)

it's never hard to live with the true ideas of marxism


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 18, 2012)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Not seen the documentary either, but it looks like the same blokes who feature in Leo Regan's "Public Enemies" book of photos of nazi skins.
> 
> http://hannahroberts3.blogspot.com/2010/10/public-enemies-leo-regan.html



It is in fact that's where the doco makers found them


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## intersol32 (Jan 18, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> sounds like anarchism or trotskyism



I think it applies to a lot of what we'd call _lifestyle politics_. In that it perhaps says more about the psychology of the individuals involved, rather than the establishment of a realistic political vision.

Steve Sargent (brother of Charlie) makes the quite frank admission in the Independent interview elsewhere that an establishment of a White Aryan homeland is "the fantasy", whereas "the reality is what you see all around you".


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Anyone recollect what tarrif the short arsed little fucker got?



TC, ive been trying to research it but its hard to find out! as far as i can tell hes still inside and when he gets out there'll be a few shirtfront  'types' looking to 'clarify the situation' with him.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Sometimes I'm struck by how Fascist beliefs just don't translate in the real world, and the way in which groups like Blood and Honour etc provide a bubble or an idealistic lifestyle for them to exist and socialize in. A place where everyone thinks like you, and confirms your dysfunctional behaviour. The problem occurs whenever they have to step outside of it and those thoughts and ideas are suddenly challenged. A mate of mine mentioned the other day, when we were talking about the Nazi scene with all of its fucking lunacy, holocaust denial, bullshit bands etc. He just said "how the fuck do you live every day with that in your head? You probably can't go to the corner shop or drink in the local without experiencing something that contradicts it".



sol, collins sort of identified this in his book Hate - that these guys are just so nuts - hitler liking, holocaust denying - that no one will hang out with them so they are stuck with each other. if your mum for example met someone like that in the local boozer she wd think they were insane. and mum knows best!


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## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

is it worth trawling thru in the interests of research of can i watch back to the future trilogy now instead?


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## TopCat (Jan 18, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> sounds like anarchism or trotskyism


That's fucking LLETSA's line.


----------



## TopCat (Jan 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> is it worth trawling thru in the interests of research of can i watch back to the future trilogy now instead?


Get on with it.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Get on with it.


BTTF 2 im afraid! 'great scott!'


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

BTTF 2 is set in 2015. so unless the hoverboard is invented in the next 3 years, how can we trust anything that speilberg et al tell us?


----------



## manny-p (Jan 18, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I recollect seeing that documentary years ago and the people in it just came across as sad/washed up/lonely/desperate.


Yep. 





intersol32 said:


> You can gather from the programme that most of them come from pretty messed up backgrounds, which likely had an effect on their political development. Some of it's completely mad and contradictory - like 'Colin' previously having a mixed race child with an Asian girlfriend.
> .



I know a guy who is half Iraqi/half Irish but his dad is an ex NFer who still holds his racialist views and lives with his mixed blood children and ex Iraqi wife, and has a half black granddaughter aswell! Contradictions with Nazis in Britain these days are bound to happen! I found that documentary very interesting, albeit depressing.


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 18, 2012)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Not seen the documentary either, but it looks like the same blokes who feature in Leo Regan's "Public Enemies" book of photos of nazi skins.
> 
> http://hannahroberts3.blogspot.com/2010/10/public-enemies-leo-regan.html



There was a female skinhead pictured in that book wearing a 'Razors Edge' t-shirt name of Cathy Murphy, a former near neighhbour of mine. She achieved a few moments 'notoriety' for a while when civil servants in her office found out her politics. The SWP/ANL fucked it up as per usual......


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 19, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> There was a female skinhead pictured in that book wearing a 'Razors Edge' t-shirt name of Cathy Murphy, a former near neighhbour of mine. She achieved a few moments 'notoriety' for a while when civil servants in her office found out her politics. The SWP/ANL fucked it up as per usual......



Wasn't it Cathy Talbot? Regardless, it's the same individual featured in the book. I always wondered what happened to her as she seemed to be another one of the regular 'faces'.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 19, 2012)

shirtfront advertising B&H 'london calling' gig. are they sure about the title? irony?


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> I think it applies to a lot of what we'd call _lifestyle politics_. In that it perhaps says more about the psychology of the individuals involved, rather than the establishment of a realistic political vision.
> 
> Steve Sargent (brother of Charlie) makes the quite frank admission in the Independent interview elsewhere that an establishment of a White Aryan homeland is "the fantasy", whereas "the reality is what you see all around you".



Re the lifestyle politics :with neo nazis that is absolutely correct and that is why they found the BNPs shift politically a total betrayal. The de Nazification of the BNP and the influx of members who had had no link with previous far right groups  left them more and more isolated ,confined to the margins. Whilst the majority of this ever decreasing rump are confined to the internet on Stormfront or selling fash regalia on Ebay , a handfull  set out on a path of terrorism or were ushered by the security services into flushing the would be terrorists out.

Cultural nationalism will have a future but narrow ethno fascism with its belief in white supremacy and anti Semitic world conspiracies is probably on par with Harpal Braar and the  CPGB (ML)


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Wasn't it Cathy Talbot? Regardless, it's the same individual featured in the book. I always wondered what happened to her as she seemed to be another one of the regular 'faces'.



No, it was Cathy Murphy, she lived in the next street to me. She worked in the same DSS office as a few mates.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 21, 2012)

past caring said:


> I think there was some stuff in NFB - I've also got a fash pamphlet indoors somewhere that makes the connection and draws the conclusion of Browning's state links on the basis that he managed to avoid jail time. Been a while since I read it, but my recollection (and bearing in mind it was a fash pamphlet) was that it was fairly well argued/non hysterical.



poster on shirtfront says that it came out at his trial! the state using wombat 18 to gather info on uda etc would not be too surprising. but fash accuse anyone they dislike of being state/nonce/red so its hard to evaluate.


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> poster on shirtfront says that it came out at his trial! the state using wombat 18 to gather info on uda etc would not be too surprising. but fash accuse anyone they dislike of being state/nonce/red so its hard to evaluate.


Marsupials and fascist groups....
as you say Wombat 18
Koala Klux Klan
ok any animal insect or otherwise species
Gnat-ional Front
Gnu Gnat-ional Front
Storkfront


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 25, 2012)

Be 'n' pee
Twitish movement
Irrational cunt


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> poster on shirtfront says that it came out at his trial! the state using wombat 18 to gather info on uda etc would not be too surprising. but fash accuse anyone they dislike of being state/nonce/red so its hard to evaluate.



The trials were confirmation really. Sargent, Browning etc (who, as I think I stated before had been meeting Searchlight on a regular basis) were essentially the C18 leadership and links were being forged with the UDA via Portinari and others. The Loyalist parades in London with Eddie Whicker and C18 as security was indicative of the relationship the latter were trying to establish.

Whether the UDA really took them seriously is open for debate. Similarly C18 always seemed to aspire to some kind of Fascist paramilitary force but could never quite match the reality with the fantasy (which reminds me of the mock C18 sticker that appeared in F.T. of "Combat 16" (being A.F) and a graphic of TV show East Enders very own Christmas Club thief and Alzheimers sufferer Arthur Fowler).

No matter if Sargent or Browning were state agents to begin with, it soon became apparent that all these significant figures had at least been bought at some point. The mixture of a violent street based Fascist group and Loyalist paramilitaries would have been something the State would have had to make mischief with. The attempt at gun-running by Whicker and Portinari could have been a tester to see if C18 were worth their while. Which resulted in the pair of them getting pinched.

If you read the Matthew Collins book (Searchlight spin aside) C18 come across as the sackless, drug addled, informer riddled organization they really were.


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## bignose1 (Jan 25, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> The trials were confirmation really. Sargent, Browning etc (who, as I think I stated before had been meeting Searchlight on a regular basis) were essentially the C18 leadership and links were being forged with the UDA via Portinari and others. The Loyalist parades in London with Eddie Whicker and C18 as security was indicative of the relationship the latter were trying to establish.
> 
> Whether the UDA really took them seriously is open for debate. Similarly C18 always seemed to aspire to some kind of Fascist paramilitary force but could never quite match the reality with the fantasy (which reminds me of the mock C18 sticker that appeared in F.T. of "Combat 16" (being A.F) and a graphic of TV show East Enders very own Christmas Club thief and Alzheimers sufferer Arthur Fowler).
> 
> ...


And still are


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## intersol32 (Jan 25, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> And still are



Any idea where Portinari and Whicker are these days? Only sign of the former was on some Loyalist website I was poking around on that had a thread slagging his wife (?). Got the impression that he was maybe living over in the occupied zone himself after release.

On a slightly different note, I thought the description of Waterloo and the post battle gig was interesting (in the Collins book). Descriptions of C18 doing coke off the tables, the landlady pulling the plug part way through the set, people looking dejected. The write up on the B+H website is fucking hilarious: "..the RDP at Waterloo station was a ruse to confuse the Reds..." (bollocks. Which is why Parrish arranged to meet the Press there at 4.30). "Ian was in fine form" (embarassing Youtube footage of him whining like a child) etc...


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## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2012)

whicker was on here somewhere quite recently - BTF thread? - at one point which was amusing! i remeber combat 16 as well. very funny! i think there was a tag line too. if the state werent involved in the far right/loyalist connex then they werent doing their job!i think larry o hara did something on this but am vague. C18 abandoned the skinheads at waterloo - as they abandoned the BNP at welling riot amongst other things. they also got turned over by the EDL in the early days with one ending up being hit with a fire extinguisher!


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## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2012)

acees 'aryan unity' and get an article called *IT AIN'T OVER TILL THE FAT MAN SWINGS*
 all about charlie!


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## krink (Jan 25, 2012)

^^^just googled it and it is there and also this amusing video


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## manny-p (Jan 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> whicker was on here somewhere quite recently - BTF thread? - at one point which was amusing! i remeber combat 16 as well. very funny! i think there was a tag line too. if the state werent involved in the far right/loyalist connex then they werent doing their job!i think larry o hara did something on this but am vague. C18 abandoned the skinheads at waterloo - as they abandoned the BNP at welling riot amongst other things. they also got turned over by the EDL in the early days with one ending up being hit with a fire extinguisher!


http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/eddie-wicker.282212/

The legend


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## intersol32 (Jan 25, 2012)

manny-p said:


> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/eddie-wicker.282212/
> 
> The legend



Yes. Just found the thread, along with his other postings.

He reminds me of a story a Vietnam Veteran told once: "We had a sniper in a hole overlooking our Firebase. He couldn't hit a fucking thing. Totally useless, but he was determined and we had a grudging respect for him I guess. Sometimes he'd pop up, fire off a round and a water buffalo would keel over two fields away. One day the HQ decided to call in an airstrike on his position and they laid huge amounts of ordnance over the hillside. Anyway, five minutes later he jumps out of his hole again and fires off another round. We all cheered. We loved that guy."


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## bignose1 (Jan 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> whicker was on here somewhere quite recently - BTF thread? - at one point which was amusing! i remeber combat 16 as well. very funny! i think there was a tag line too. if the state werent involved in the far right/loyalist connex then they werent doing their job!i think larry o hara did something on this but am vague. C18 abandoned the skinheads at waterloo - as they abandoned the BNP at welling riot amongst other things. they also got turned over by the EDL in the early days with one ending up being hit with a fire extinguisher!


yeah rival faction C02


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## bignose1 (Jan 25, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Any idea where Portinari and Whicker are these days? Only sign of the former was on some Loyalist website I was poking around on that had a thread slagging his wife (?). Got the impression that he was maybe living over in the occupied zone himself after release.
> 
> On a slightly different note, I thought the description of Waterloo and the post battle gig was interesting (in the Collins book). Descriptions of C18 doing coke off the tables, the landlady pulling the plug part way through the set, people looking dejected. The write up on the B+H website is fucking hilarious: "..the RDP at Waterloo station was a ruse to confuse the Reds..." (bollocks. Which is why Parrish arranged to meet the Press there at 4.30). "Ian was in fine form" (embarassing Youtube footage of him whining like a child) etc...


Any Portinari in a Stormfront


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## krink (Jan 25, 2012)

Cinzano, you've been told before - stop encouraging him!


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 25, 2012)

It's like Russ Abbot's Funhouse in here 

Just waiting for Bella Emberg in a tutu and the musical finale.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 25, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> The trials were confirmation really. Sargent, Browning etc (who, as I think I stated before had been meeting Searchlight on a regular basis) were essentially the C18 leadership and links were being forged with the UDA via Portinari and others. The Loyalist parades in London with Eddie Whicker and C18 as security was indicative of the relationship the latter were trying to establish.
> 
> Whether the UDA really took them seriously is open for debate. Similarly C18 always seemed to aspire to some kind of Fascist paramilitary force but could never quite match the reality with the fantasy (which reminds me of the mock C18 sticker that appeared in F.T. of "Combat 16" (being A.F) and a graphic of TV show East Enders very own Christmas Club thief and Alzheimers sufferer Arthur Fowler).
> 
> ...


also in collins' book - apart from his rather unconvincing conversion narrative - is the claim that a number of the nf were feeding information to searchlight, while being active and not turned nf members.

and it's interesting to note that only two sorts of people seem to have been involved with the far right for searchlight, people who have apparently become disaffected - like ray hill or matthew collins - and state agents like tim hepple.


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## Casually Red (Jan 26, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> The trials were confirmation really. Sargent, Browning etc (who, as I think I stated before had been meeting Searchlight on a regular basis) were essentially the C18 leadership and links were being forged with the UDA via Portinari and others. The Loyalist parades in London with Eddie Whicker and C18 as security was indicative of the relationship the latter were trying to establish.
> 
> Whether the UDA really took them seriously is open for debate. Similarly C18 always seemed to aspire to some kind of Fascist paramilitary force but could never quite match the reality with the fantasy (which reminds me of the mock C18 sticker that appeared in F.T. of "Combat 16" (being A.F) and a graphic of TV show East Enders very own Christmas Club thief and Alzheimers sufferer Arthur Fowler).
> 
> ...



In fairness thats what the UDA mostly were too , only the state was specifically employing them for the purpose of terrorising unarmed civilians . When the state plug was pulled on them it resulted in utter chaos among their ranks ,and the clown status of their leaders, virtually all state agents, well and truly came to the fore .


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## Casually Red (Jan 26, 2012)

Ive been informed ,fairly reliably,that well known cake diver Eddie Morrison has regularly been cruising Irish websites fighting loyalisms corner . Sometimes with hilarious results . He may have jacked it in though after numerous ripostes hinting at knowlege of his identity while ripping the shite out of him .


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## North_Star (Jan 26, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Link from Indymedia below.
> 
> "London Calling"
> 
> ...



That sounds cool.


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## The39thStep (Jan 26, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> also in collins' book - apart from his rather unconvincing conversion narrative - is the claim that a number of the nf were feeding information to searchlight, while being active and not turned nf members.
> 
> and it's interesting to note that only two sorts of people seem to have been involved with the far right for searchlight, people who have apparently become disaffected - like ray hill or matthew collins - and state agents like tim hepple.



where would Robert Edwards fit in?


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## malatesta32 (Jan 26, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> Ive been informed ,fairly reliably,that well known cake diver Eddie Morrison has regularly been cruising Irish websites fighting loyalisms corner . Sometimes with hilarious results . He may have jacked it in though after numerous ripostes hinting at knowlege of his identity while ripping the shite out of him .



good old morrison! we miss him!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/nf-coup/


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## malatesta32 (Jan 26, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> where would Robert Edwards fit in?



in case you dont know, edwards is a regular poster on brtisih democracy forum. he is a muslim now and hates the EDL posters. he seems to spend all day on there.


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## MellySingsDoom (Jan 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> in case you dont know, edwards is a regular poster on brtisih democracy forum. he is a muslim now and hates the EDL posters. he seems to spend all day on there.



He was also responsible for creating that disgustingly vile and abhorrent "comic" "The Stormer"....


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 26, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Link from Indymedia below.
> 
> "London Calling"
> 
> ...



Only two days to go!

Do you think TicketMaster will have any tix left, or have I left it too late?


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## malatesta32 (Jan 26, 2012)

edwards did time for racist cartoons. werent there 2 stormer ventures, edwards and then the 1 atkins got jailed for? or are they the same?


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## MellySingsDoom (Jan 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> edwards did time for racist cartoons. werent there 2 stormer ventures, edwards and then the 1 atkins got jailed for? or are they the same?



Not too sure offhand, mal - I only know of the one, myself....


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## malatesta32 (Jan 26, 2012)

Krink! thats video is awful. that white power music is absolutely dire!


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## krink (Jan 26, 2012)

you're not wrong mal, it's a mystery how they can listen to that shite even without the daft lyrics.


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## Casually Red (Jan 26, 2012)

its a long way from Wagner Ill admit , like Thors Hammer being brought down on a cats bollocks while the residents of Bedlam howl their anguish. At least the original master race had better music and dress sense . Wouldnt catch Hitler face down in a birthday cake


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## Casually Red (Jan 26, 2012)

Just in case anyones interested a recent Irish attempt to set up one of these outfits seems to have, not altogether unexpectedly, imploded with hilarious results . For the first time since Justin Barretts departure from the scene under a hail of fists at Trinity college someyears ago , the handful of fash in the south of Ireland went public with a name and face . Namely one michael quinn , an unemployed father of 8 .







actualy i might just start a seperate thread relating to that as theres a lot of info concerning it as well as links to the EDL from some Dublin based crims that are worth outlining .


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## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2012)

never mind me. thread confusion


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## The39thStep (Jan 27, 2012)

I was originally a


malatesta32 said:


> edwards did time for racist cartoons. werent there 2 stormer ventures, edwards and then the 1 atkins got jailed for? or are they the same?



I was originally trying to place where Edwards ( and it must be said some members of the LSG) fitted in with Pickmans definition of two sorts that cooperate with Searchlight.

Atkins and the RVF used Edwards cartoons.


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## Athos (Jan 27, 2012)

Rudd and Honour


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## malatesta32 (Jan 27, 2012)

tee hee!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/blood-no-honour/


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## cemertyone (Jan 27, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> also in collins' book - apart from his rather unconvincing conversion narrative - is the claim that a number of the nf were feeding information to searchlight, while being active and not turned nf members.
> 
> and it's interesting to note that only two sorts of people seem to have been involved with the far right for searchlight, people who have apparently become disaffected - like ray hill or matthew collins - and state agents like tim hepple.



In collins book..he refers to a "former international" English/British athlete..who was this person??
And also a Fleet Street jurno who supplied them with info..later gable had to pay him some form of libel(who was this??


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## LiamO (Jan 27, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Only two days to go!
> 
> Do you think TicketMaster will have any tix left, or have I left it too late?



No it's not too late Dave. Just send me your address and I'll get some chaps to deliver them


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## Fedayn (Jan 27, 2012)

cemertyone said:


> In collins book..he refers to a "former international" English/British athlete..who was this person??



Buster Mottram, former British tennis 'star' was a member of the NF in thw 1970's.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 27, 2012)

LiamO said:


> No it's not too late Dave. Just send me your address and I'll get some chaps to deliver them



Top hole!

BM Well-Oiled Sweatyheads Hot 4 U
London
WC1N 3XX

Ta


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## cemertyone (Jan 27, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Buster Mottram, former British tennis 'star' was a member of the NF in thw 1970's.



cheers..just gonna goole him and see what the jen on him is...


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## bignose1 (Jan 27, 2012)

cemertyone said:


> cheers..just gonna goole him and see what the jen on him is...


Some observers have said although he had a few faults as a tennis player he was a love-ly guy and the NF took advantage of him......would you dedeuce that was a bit of a backhanded compliment. Serves him right.


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## MellySingsDoom (Jan 27, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Some observers have said although he had a few faults as a tennis player he was a love-ly guy and the NF took advantage of him......would you dedeuce that was a bit of a backhanded compliment. Serves him right.



I de-deuce that you're net a fan of this bloke, then?  It does sound like he has a lot of double faults, though.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 27, 2012)

Something something keenness for ball boys something?


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## bignose1 (Jan 27, 2012)

MellySingsDoom said:


> I de-deuce that you're net a fan of this bloke, then? It does sound like he has a lot of double faults, though.


The athelete is runner Paul Ashen...(bless you)


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## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2012)

cemertyone said:


> In collins book..he refers to a "former international" English/British athlete..who was this person??
> And also a Fleet Street jurno who supplied them with info..later gable had to pay him some form of libel(who was this??



the journo in question, who we will call barry gushell, took searhlight to court but they settled it out of court for a couple of grand according to collins.


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## manny-p (Jan 29, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the journo in question, who we will call barry gushell, took searhlight to court but they settled it out of court for a couple of grand according to collins.


Get some balls guys and name and shame the cunt.


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## bignose1 (Jan 29, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Get some balls guys and name and shame the cunt.


Who Bushell!


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## josef1878 (Jan 29, 2012)

How did the gig go?


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## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2012)

josef1878 said:


> How did the gig go?



i really enjoyed it and am thinking of being a nazo from now on!


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## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Get some balls guys and name and shame the cunt.



my 'balls' as you call them are all present and correct sir!


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> my 'balls' as you call them...



Or 'Gregor & Otto' as _you_ call them


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## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2012)

hugo and johnny actually! (hugo ball, johnny ball etc). now can we PLEASE move away from my testicles!


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 30, 2012)

Actress/bishop


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## krink (Jan 30, 2012)

bignose, mal and davec you should all be banned for the crime of excess punnery.


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## Deareg (Jan 30, 2012)

krink said:


> bignose, mal and davec you should all be banned for the crime of excess punnery.


That, or beaten with baseball bats.


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## killer b (Jan 30, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Actress/bishop


bishop/actress, i think.


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## DaveCinzano (Jan 30, 2012)

Not with the ecumenical discussions I had in mind.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2012)

Puns Not Dead!


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## AKA pseudonym (Feb 6, 2012)

Any reports?


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