# Mad Men Season 7



## belboid (Mar 24, 2014)

is almost upon us. Well, only three weeks away.  Another teaser trailer has been released - 



Several new characters are, apparently, to be introduced. Three new blokes, Dennis Ford, Will Scully and Ferg Donnelly - one of whom must be replacing Don in the company.  And a 'new housewife' called Diana.

It does seem a bit odd to stick it on straight after Game of Thrones, I'd never realised they did before, as I never watched GoT. But even now I am into it, I cant really see myself wanting to watching MM straight afterwards.

Anyhows, we are almost airborne, where will we land...


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## Silva (Mar 26, 2014)

I was expecting Pete to be fully bald by now.


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## belboid (Apr 7, 2014)

Only me and you left watching now?  

Just a week to go.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 7, 2014)

belboid said:


> Only me and you left watching now?
> 
> Just a week to go.


 
Nah I'll watch it six months after everyone else when it ends up on DVD/Netflix.


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 7, 2014)

belboid said:


> Only me and you left watching now?
> 
> Just a week to go.



course not! Mad Men and Game of Thrones are the only shows I really watch, so I've been waiting for this season for a long time. It is rather annoying that they're both on the same night though.  
will probably watch MM on tv, then GOT later on during the week (I don't have HBO)


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## belboid (Apr 7, 2014)

It's handy there's bugger all else decent on at the moment, we should be able to get through both monday night.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 14, 2014)

yehhhh


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## belboid (Apr 15, 2014)

interesting


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## Silva (Apr 16, 2014)

Is this a spoilery thread or not? I think the season started a bit slow (no updates from the Bob Benson and the Francis household front, so I guess this makes it a two-episode opening, although it's a bit weird for the 8 episode half-season BS), but there's some things to be discussed already.


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## belboid (Apr 16, 2014)

After it has been officially shown on Sky here has been the usual rule. So anything goes after 10 tonight.

But, yeah, it sure wasn't a Game of Thrones style opener


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## Silva (Apr 16, 2014)

I'll start throwing questions tomorrow, then.


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## Silva (Apr 17, 2014)

Sooo...



Spoiler: In case someone still hasn't seen it



Should have seen something was up when Freddy Rumsen is pitching winners.
Peggy ended up the last season in a high, as heir apparent to Draper, but her new CD doesn't seem to respect her _at all_, as opposed to Don's bizarre way of showing appreciation, while having her personal life in shambles. On the other hand, Don seems to continue adrift - ghost-writing for Freddy while pretending to be a busy executive to Megan certainly doesn't look like what he should be doing. He just wishes he could be the hedonist Roger is.
Poor Ken and his total lack of depth perception. Maybe he's missing Pete on the office. And speaking of Pete, for the first time since forever, he doesn't look a miserable bastard. Joan might as well try, and although she's probably the fittest to run the company, nobody wants to look at her as more than a secretary.


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## little_legs (Apr 17, 2014)

Don using a proxy for his own material. Nice reference to the Hollywood Ten.


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## madamv (Apr 17, 2014)

Love the shot of Don atop the plane steps in that trail. 

Recorded it last night so looking forward to watching it later. I don't keep up properly with the mechanics of it all, I just like the purdy people and dresses.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 21, 2014)




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## belboid (Apr 21, 2014)

racial politics has always been the series' weak point, and i think it showed it again tonight -a couplw of very good lines excepted. 

that said, as a soap,developing nicely


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 21, 2014)

the part with Sally and Don started off really well imo then totally pissed me off. Sally desperately needs stabilty from Don and for him to be a father, not displaying reckless behavior (as in walking out of the restaurant without paying) Poor Sally, even the writers have no clue what she needs 
He's basically just shown her that he's out of control and makes terrible decisions- duh, she already knows that.


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## belboid (Apr 21, 2014)

that was a beautiful bit tho. One of the reason why MM is so good, despite my annoyance at the superficiality of it - there are just beautifully observed moments of how a semi-divorced dad would try to impress his daughter


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 21, 2014)

belboid said:


> that was a beautiful bit tho. One of the reason why MM is so good, despite my annoyance at the superficiality of it - there are just beautifully observed moments of how a semi-divorced dad would try to impress his daughter



I agree somewhat...just that they don't get it quite right. I can totally see Don doing that...I think it happens w/ lots of divorced dads, but the kid's reaction is more likely to be bewilderment and terror rather than "aw yeah, that's awesome dad, you're the best!"


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## belboid (Apr 21, 2014)

Miss Caphat said:


> I agree somewhat...just that they don't get it quite right. I can totally see Don doing that...I think it happens w/ lots of divorced dads, but the kid's reaction is more likely to be bewilderment and terror rather than "aw yeah, that's awesome dad, you're the best!"


but he did pay! i missed it on first viewing, but he did. 

her reaction was kinda world weary 'oh dad,' but then, we haven't been to boarding school, and forced to pretend to be more grown up (well, i haven't, i'm guessing you haven't either)


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## Silva (Apr 22, 2014)

SPOILERY






belboid said:


> racial politics has always been the series' weak point, and i think it showed it again tonight -a couplw of very good lines excepted.


I laughed at Dawn (who is looking fit to become the new Joan) greeting Shirley with their own names.



Miss Caphat said:


> the part with Sally and Don started off really well imo then totally pissed me off. Sally desperately needs stabilty from Don and for him to be a father, not displaying reckless behavior (as in walking out of the restaurant without paying) Poor Sally, even the writers have no clue what she needs
> He's basically just shown her that he's out of control and makes terrible decisions- duh, she already knows that.


He paid. I think this was his way to make sure Sally understood that while Don is technically unemployed, he didn't go poor, and joking around the subject was probably better than showing what being a "partner" means. With him re-bonding with Sally (who's perhaps the only person in the world Don doesn't want to disappoint), apparently trying to get his boozing under control, and checking if there's a market for him, I think that for all his faults, is making an effort on being more than Dick Whitman with a sad, alcoholic clown costume. 

On the other hand, Peggy is really breaking at the seams, isn't she? Ginsberg must be pissed at her for some reason (he pretended not to hear her asking to hold the elevator) and blaming the secretary for her own wishful thinking and then wasting company time because of her being still not over Ted was kind of dickish. Also: "_February 14: Masturbating gloomily_"  
Joan seems finally to be moving upwards where she deserves, although that might be machinations by Cutler to mess with Roger/Bert and take control of meetings.

On the LA front, Pete is back at being a miserable fuckface, although with reason. I can see him rage quitting the company, cashing out and going to sell real estate with what'shername. Then he sells Megan the house the Manson Family do her in.


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 22, 2014)

ok, I'll have to re-watch


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 22, 2014)

Silva said:


> . Also: "_February 14: Masturbating gloomily_"



I laughed out loud at that


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## little_legs (Apr 22, 2014)

Sally has worked out that _loving Don is the worst way to get to him. _She tells him _I love you_ and does not give him an opportunity to respond, that was great.

Sally never gives up on Don and I am so grateful for that.


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## little_legs (Apr 22, 2014)

Silva said:


> I laughed at Dawn (who is looking fit to become the new Joan) greeting Shirley with their own names.



I thought that both women were making a point that their white colleagues call them wrong names because _they look the same_ to them?


> On the LA front, Pete is back at being a miserable fuckface, although with reason.


His happiness did not last long, did it.


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## Silva (Apr 22, 2014)

little_legs said:


> I thought that both women were making a point that their white colleagues call them wrong names because _they look the same_ to them?



Yup, that was the joke. Considering how ham-fisted Mad Men often is on race issues, that was delightfully subtle.


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## belboid (Apr 29, 2014)

Yay Betty!

Oh god, Betty


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## little_legs (Apr 29, 2014)




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## madamv (May 4, 2014)

Fuckin Betty.  What a twat.   Nice to see her back to form


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## Silva (May 6, 2014)

SPOILERS AHEAD

Freddy Rumsen, Mad Men's unlikely hero.

Then there's Peggy. With Don pushed to the sidelines and Ted in LA (and refusing to going back), she's the highest creative person on board. While she got an incredibly considerable raise ($100 a week translates to over $600 now - I'm not sure how Lou alone could greenlight such a raise), I wonder if it was just a plot by Lou to lure her in into a false sense of security (because not a chance he would "hire her himself"), knowing Don wouldn't work under her guidance and Lou's methods, and after the whole Burgerchef thing tanked, he could go back to Cutler and get rid of both Don and Peggy - and considering how this episode looked a transition from the previous creative-led office under Don to the number-oriented company of Harry and Cutler (after all, "it's not symbolic - No, it's quite literal"), I wouldn't be surprised if Peggy and Don found each other in hot water as the company tries to get rid of high-maintenance creatives.

As an aside, I'd watch the hell out a series with Ginsberg and Stan. Those two together are gold


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## Buddy Bradley (May 6, 2014)

Is it just me, or is the new Creative Director reminding anyone else of Russ Abbott?


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## little_legs (May 6, 2014)




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## belboid (May 6, 2014)

Silva said:


> SPOILERS AHEAD
> 
> Freddy Rumsen, Mad Men's unlikely hero.
> 
> ...


I think that that's almost definitely Lou's plan - fuck the competition. I don't quite get the point of Lou, he doesn't seem to do anything, just mither about, has he actually had a creative thought yet? 

It is interesting, after all several seasons in which the new folk were breaking through, and getting to be directors etc, it is basically the same old guard, rich white men, running the whole show as it was when the show began. Plus ca change


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## belboid (May 6, 2014)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Is it just me, or is the new Creative Director reminding anyone else of Russ Abbott?


it's just you


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## little_legs (May 6, 2014)

Spoiler: E4 - The Monolith



So I just caught up with the latest episode. What was Don trying to tell the computer installation guy before he stormed out of the office? I didn't get it. This computer installation reminded me about the John Deere mower incident, it's going to end in tears.


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## Silva (May 7, 2014)

little_legs said:


> Spoiler: E4 - The Monolith
> 
> 
> 
> So I just caught up with the latest episode. What was Don trying to tell the computer installation guy before he stormed out of the office? I didn't get it. This computer installation reminded me about the John Deere mower incident, it's going to end in tears.


When he was drunk? I think that was a pitch. A completely pissed-up attempt at one. At that point, I think he was trying to self-destruct his presence in the company, and become the in-house ad guy for Lease-Tech.




belboid said:


> I think that that's almost definitely Lou's plan - fuck the competition. I don't quite get the point of Lou, he doesn't seem to do anything, just mither about, has he actually had a creative thought yet?


Lou seems the creative type who can't come with anything that isn't inside his comfort area (as opposed to every other main creative in the company - Don, Ted, Peggy, even Ginsberg and Stan and some of the account people like Roger and Pete are less restrained by preconceived notions and will go happily where good copy takes them) and will also refuse to acknowledge there's something else outside, not to mention, he seems the kind of guy that won't do anything that doesn't benefit him (like not submitting ads for award consideration because none had his name on it). He's the kind of "creative" numbers guys like Cutler and (to a point) Joan and Bert like - pull mediocre after mediocre campaign to keep money rolling but without telling customers their product reminds them of growing in a whorehouse.

Speaking of which, I found interesting when Harry was presenting Don as "creative director" to the Lease-Tech, and of the three mentioned, one is in LA and wouldn't be surprised if he was done with the company sooner or later, a dead man walking and a guy with the creative mind of a boulder.


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## Buddy Bradley (May 11, 2014)

Caught up with episode 4 now. Am I reading too much into the choice of music at the end of the episode - On A Carousel by The Hollies - being a callback to Don's pinnacle of creativity at the Kodak pitch, way back at the end of Season 1?


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## belboid (May 12, 2014)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Caught up with episode 4 now. Am I reading too much into the choice of music at the end of the episode - On A Carousel by The Hollies - being a callback to Don's pinnacle of creativity at the Kodak pitch, way back at the end of Season 1?


of course it was!  This season is full of such callbacks. This weeks closing scene has Don in the same tie (and suit, bar slight colour shift) as in his very first scene in the show. We are coming full circle.

Great episode this week, some nice ramping up of plot (actual plot!). Just in time for it to be cut off in a fortnight.


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## Dillinger4 (May 12, 2014)

Spoiler


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## Miss Caphat (May 12, 2014)

Spoiler



Meghan


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## madamv (May 15, 2014)

Wicked ep this week!  And I echo the  And 	Also a little bit of  for Betty...


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## Silva (May 16, 2014)

She's not dumb, _she speaks italian_.


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## belboid (May 19, 2014)

Bob Benson


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## Dillinger4 (May 19, 2014)

that was beautiful.


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## belboid (May 25, 2014)

All building to an exciting climax tomorrow. No coincidence that Bob Benson returned the weekend before Stonewall. Will he end up celebrating his new job in the bar, or will we be leaping forward in time again? Episodes are set about a month apart this season, so it wouldn't be a big stretch for the next one to be set around August 7th - the murder of Sharon Tate. She can't just leave Don and be happy! 

And what plan has Roger got?


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## Silva (May 25, 2014)

belboid said:


> And what plan has Roger got?


Party?


People often mention what a tragic figure Don is, but Joan doesn't fall behind. Years of being little more than furniture and eye-candy, being raped by her husband, when she finally got a break ended up working as a one-night escort, and now turns out the only guy (other than Roger) that cared for her and her son just wanted her as a beard


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## Silva (May 26, 2014)

Well, that was one eventful episode.

Also, why am I not surprised Cutler might have been involved in the Dresden bombing?


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## little_legs (May 26, 2014)

_Cutler's not going to stop until the firm is just Harry and the computer!_


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## belboid (May 26, 2014)

well, that was an unexpected ending


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## Silva (May 26, 2014)

belboid said:


> well, that was an unexpected ending


Brilliant, too.


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## madamv (May 30, 2014)

I really enjoyed the ep.  Joan is getting greedy imo.  No sense of loyalty. Although I never imagined my liking Pete or that he would have any redeeming qualities!  Annoyed at the long gap.  I suspect we are headed for a redemption for Don in the season finales...


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## Silva (May 30, 2014)

So, everyone seen it?


Spoiler



I think Roger really took Bert's words about him not being a leader very seriously. Look how quickly he broke a deal with the devil to keep control of company and keep Don. And Cutler is a magnificent bastard. "_you're a hired hand_", "_It's a lot of money"_ 
I was surprised how everyone took Ted's airplane fiasco lightly. Everyone loses their shit when Don breaks his Dick's Whorehouse Stories, but other than Pete, nobody seemed to care that much about that, or his mental state. He tells everyone he wants to quit, Joan and Pete have daggers for eyes, Cutler doesn't care, Don tries to convince him not to and Roger just wants the vote to get in. I wonder if Ted is really that much like Don, and if Don was really being sincere, or pushing Ted into traffic to get him on his. Good to see Peggy triumphant again. Her constant bitterness over Ted and Don was getting tiresome, and she finally seems at peace on her professional life for the first time since the merger. _And Pete has 10%_.
Also, this was the official crap on Harry Crane episode. From being the company (along the computer) to losing millions of dollars because he held out on negotiations too long, as Roger just plotted the merger. As the sadly underused Ken would put it:






So, Megan is gone. For good? There wasn't much from the Francis household this season, other than Betty being unhappy at just being a pretty face and Sally growing up and becoming more and more like her parents.

Any predictions on how where the next season will start?


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## madamv (May 30, 2014)

I'd like it to start with Roger and Don swanning around like kings over their empire.   Anyone else pissed off with Joan? 

And yes, it was nice to see peggie with a smile....


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 2, 2014)

Haven't watched ep 7 yet, but was anyone else surprised by the swearing in ep 6? I don't remember there being any swearing at all in Mad Men before, but that one had a "fuck" and a couple of "shit"s all in one episode.


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2014)

loved that - a beautiful, weird, satisfying ending.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 5, 2014)

Silva said:


> So, everyone seen it?
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...




I have been thinking how much they really need to develop Ken as a character. I groan inside whenever I see his eyepatch. He's much better than the running gag/ punching bag they made him into.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 17, 2014)

I just took two of those stupid FB quizzes 

The first one "What Mad Men Character Are You?" told me I was Pete 

The second one "Which Mad Men Character Should you Date?" told me I should date Pete 



no thanks!


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## joustmaster (Jun 17, 2014)

Hahaha


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## Silva (Jun 19, 2014)

Miss Caphat said:


> I just took two of those stupid FB quizzes
> 
> The first one "What Mad Men Character Are You?" told me I was Pete
> 
> ...


truth be told, Pete would totally date himself.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 19, 2014)

And he would get himself knocked up with his own baby. Which would be the most horrendous demon child to ever walk the earth


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## Silva (Jun 19, 2014)

Miss Caphat said:


> And he would get himself knocked up with his own baby. Which would be the most horrendous demon child to ever walk the earth


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 19, 2014)

Silva said:


>




who is that?


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## Silva (Jun 19, 2014)

Miss Caphat said:


> who is that?


Vincent Kartheiser in Angel, where he played the son of vampires, seems close enough. He was also a little shithead then


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## belboid (Jul 4, 2014)

having just read Donald Fagen's 'Eminent Hispters', I find out that the 'Burger Chef' that the company were so excited to have won the acount for weren't just a generic/early alternative to McDonalds, they were a quite notorious company. Set up as a rival to McD's, they flopped massively and rapidly. If the series were set a couple of decades later, they'd have been running in shouting 'We've won the Betamax account!'


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## King Biscuit Time (Aug 23, 2014)

I daren't read the thread for fear of spoilers - but if anyone on it can point me in the direction of the first two episodes of S7 I'd be dead dead grateful.


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## joustmaster (Aug 23, 2014)

King Biscuit Time said:


> I daren't read the thread for fear of spoilers - but if anyone on it can point me in the direction of the first two episodes of S7 I'd be dead dead grateful.


http://geektv.ch/watch/39304

and the rest
http://geektv.ch/watch-online/mad-men


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## Silva (Apr 6, 2015)

And it's back


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## belboid (Apr 6, 2015)

Well, there was one very big surprise in there.


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## Santino (Apr 10, 2015)

belboid said:


> Well, there was one very big surprise in there.


 What?


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## Silva (Apr 10, 2015)

Santino said:


> What?


Roger's and Ted's moustaches, obv


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 10, 2015)

Ted's made me lol for a long time


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## belboid (Apr 11, 2015)

It's the 1970's!


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## Silva (Apr 11, 2015)

Oh, btw, is it me, or are the series doing another time jump down the line? In the trailer, Pete's hairline seems to be further back than in the first episode.

Also, no moustaches.


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 11, 2015)

Silva said:


> Oh, btw, is it me, or are the series doing another time jump down the line? In the trailer, Pete's hairline seems to be further back than in the first episode.
> 
> Also, no moustaches.



I think that was made a while back


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## Silva (Apr 11, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> I think that was made a while back


Don't think so. Love Hangover only featured now, and in a way, it signifies the series arriving on the 70s (I don't think they time-shifted a feature song as much as they did here - 5 years, IIRC). Plus, Stan's magnificent beard seems the same length as in the episode (but with shorter hair, like Cosgrove), while Roger is also sporting some magnificent chops.

Could also be Weinberg throwing misdirections - IIRC, he wanted John Slattery to wear a lip wig instead of growing his own because people would know about it during filming.


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 11, 2015)

Silva said:


> Don't think so. Love Hangover only featured now, and in a way, it signifies the series arriving on the 70s (I don't think they time-shifted a feature song as much as they did here - 5 years, IIRC). Plus, Stan's magnificent beard seems the same length as in the episode (but with shorter hair, like Cosgrove), while Roger is also sporting some magnificent chops.
> 
> Could also be Weinberg throwing misdirections - IIRC, he wanted John Slattery to wear a lip wig instead of growing his own because people would know about it during filming.



I dunno, I feel like I saw it several months ago, but I may be wrong


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 11, 2015)

one thing I do know is for the mustache full effect they needed the element of surprise so it doesn't surprise me they wouldn't throw it away by revealing it in a trailer.


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## Silva (Apr 11, 2015)

I've searched around, and the trailer popped up around mid-to-late February. Most news either on 19 or 20.


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## Silva (Apr 13, 2015)

Some developments this week.

Megan is the _worst_. Well, she's not, but only because there's Harry. If he isn't quitting advertising in the end of the series, and we see him in LA or Florida wearing a bright neck handkerchief, some Hawaiian shirt open to the belly button, and asking young, pretty actresses if they're ok with nudity and would be interested on appearing on an "artsy, european style movie", I'd be very surprised.

Also, _Marie-France, don't be a bitch_


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 14, 2015)

Megan's mom is the second worst. Wtf is Megan supposed to do with all that furniture anyway? It will just be a hassle. 

Don's love life is just never going to be interesting, is it? It feels like a chore just to sit through another painfully boring, chemistry free mini-relationship of his.


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 14, 2015)

was just reading some blog posts about the episode, to try and make sense of it

I thought this quote was really spot-on 

"Some critics have written about how “Mad Men” caters to a certain misplaced nostalgia for the Sixties. This episode suffered from a misplaced nostalgia for itself." 

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ap-season-7-new-business-diana-waitress/?_r=0


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## belboid (Apr 14, 2015)

rather 'meh' that one.  It's all old ghosts rather than New Business. This mother/waitress thing is not convincing, and there just isn't enough of everyone else!


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## Silva (Apr 14, 2015)

Some sites have been insisting on the waitress similarities to previous Don's affairs, but I don't see it (a expected her to be some other kid he grew up with). As boring as it was, I think it was subconsciously Don recognizing himself on someone rather than chase the idea that the right woman will fix him. 

One thing I found weird with Megan is that, IIRC, she got into acting because her dad berated her for "marrying up" instead of making up her own way, so it's weird she'd take the huge check. Either she finally realized what Don was implying when he said he'd be giving her the life she deserves - she's not that good of an actress and since is unwilling to do smaller bits to build up her name and won't steep as low as getting into a casting couch and will give up on acting, move back to LA and join Scientology or something (also, fun bit - the artsy photographer, Mimi Rogers, was Tom Cruise first wife,and left the Church of Scientology, while Elizabeth Moss is still pretty much in it). 

I'm not getting the number of new characters thrown in for a wrap-up. I get that after the merger there would be a few new characters, but all these seem to be coming and going.


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## belboid (Apr 14, 2015)

Silva said:


> Some sites have been insisting on the waitress similarities to previous Don's affairs, but I don't see it (a expected her to be some other kid he grew up with). As boring as it was, I think it was subconsciously Don recognizing himself on someone rather than chase the idea that the right woman will fix him.


she's his mother



> One thing I found weird with Megan is that, IIRC, she got into acting because her dad berated her for "marrying up" instead of making up her own way, so it's weird she'd take the huge check.


She's a shallow, vain, lightweight, egotist. She was always going to take the money (after pulling a sad and disgusted face).


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## Silva (Apr 14, 2015)

belboid said:


> she's his mother


Possibly. 



belboid said:


> She's a shallow, vain, lightweight, egotist. She was always going to take the money (after pulling a sad and disgusted face).


Absolutely. Yet, she seemed to be a bit above taking the easy way out. 

Then again, like Cutler said...


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 14, 2015)

belboid said:


> she's his mother.




Well, that, and she's also Dons foil, because she wants to focus on the void and deal with her grief and her guilt to the point where she won't allow herself any distraction, whereas Don just keeps running from the void and throwing blankets over the spilled wine on the carpet.


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## Silva (Apr 20, 2015)

_What the shit_, Betty.


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## belboid (Apr 21, 2015)

Silva said:


> _What the shit_, Betty.


what, you think she should have shagged him?  Now, '_What the shit, _Joan?' - that I'd have accepted.

There was at lest a bit of moving on, towards a conclusion this week, not just final cameos.


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## Silva (Apr 21, 2015)

belboid said:


> what, you think she should have shagged him?  Now, '_What the shit, _Joan?' - that I'd have accepted.
> 
> There was at lest a bit of moving on, towards a conclusion this week, not just final cameos.


I think she should have acted a bit less... accommodating to Creepy Glenn. Her order of thought was "I've known you since you were 8, you are my daughter's friend, I have over twice your age, but_ I'm not banging you because I'm married_". Maybe it's the acting, but... heh. Major creep factor. I wonder what Betty Hofstadt, Psy.D. would think of that.
I think it put an interesting contrast to Don. He was told by an everyone he was all (fading) looks and nothing else, and Sally's friend was actively making passes at him. While he could have tried to prop himself up, he kept her interested, but very politely deflected the conversation to everyone on the table. Sally was embarrassed, but then again, most teens would be in a dinner where her friends are all over his fathers' feet. 

Joan now is... _weird_. Now that she has the financial stability she paid so much for, it's like she doesn't know what to do with it. I *think* she was joking about giving away the kid, but that didn't exactly register cleanly as a joke, did it?


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## belboid (Apr 21, 2015)

Silva said:


> I think she should have acted a bit less... accommodating to Creepy Glenn. Her order of thought was "I've known you since you were 8, you are my daughter's friend, I have over twice your age, but_ I'm not banging you because I'm married_". Maybe it's the acting, but... heh. Major creep factor. I wonder what Betty Hofstadt, Psy.D. would think of that.


she has always been rather weird with him tho - giving him the lock of her hair when they first met. As you say, tho, it's an interesting contrast with Don.

And Joan, wasn't joking.


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## Silva (Apr 21, 2015)

belboid said:


> she has always been rather weird with him tho - giving him the lock of her hair when they first met. As you say, tho, it's an interesting contrast with Don.
> 
> And Joan, wasn't joking.


Yeah, but she usually did the weird stuff privately. This time, she was undressing him with her eyes in front of Sally and what's-her-name.

One thing I like about this episode was how it hinted at the future of some characters. Don is trying to figure what the future (his and the company) will bring. Roger will party his way to the eighties, unless he dies first (out of partying too much, certainly). Peggy knows she has the talent to do whatever she wants, even if she doesn't know what that is yet. Joan wishes she could change the past to get a better future. Ted looks like he has given up and will go through the motions. Sally deep down knows she's like her parents, but is aware enough of that to not fall on the same pitfalls.

I hope next week we have a Pete / Ken episode. I'm missing Pete, and it would be fun seeing Ken chewing him up


----------



## Silva (Apr 25, 2015)

Spoiler


----------



## Silva (Apr 27, 2015)

Those were some massive developments leading to the series end.

Also, Ken feels like a spy. And looks like one. Plus, the Campbell family history


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Apr 27, 2015)

Yeah a lot happened that last episode, was very good. Episode three was all over the place tho.


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2015)

Yay, stuff actually happened!  And very well written and performed stuff it was too. I'll have to watch it again to recall some of the cracking lines better.

Loved the (incredibly tenuous) Game of Thrones reference.


----------



## Silva (Apr 29, 2015)

Worth pointing out the episode was directed by Jared Harris (the late Lane Pryce)

Also, the the Campbell - MacDonald thing? Real. I should start using "THE KING ORDERED IT" as an excuse randomly.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2015)

Silva said:


> Also, the the Campbell - MacDonald thing? Real. I should start using "THE KING ORDERED IT" as an excuse randomly.


Well, yes.  It's quite famous - and was used as the basis for the Red Wedding in Game of Thrones


----------



## Silva (May 4, 2015)

After an episode where everything seemed to fall into place, everything now seems to be falling apart. 


Spoiler: Spoilery



In a way, Joan's expendability is the first sign that the company is dead. She was the glue that held SC/SCDP/SC&P together, now that there's no company, there's no reason for her to be there, particularly because she knows nobody will respect her other than her old partners, who will be scattered across the floors. But unlike Peggy, she has no real need to keep working. She is rich, and might marry richer.


----------



## joustmaster (May 5, 2015)

I've just realised this is the final series.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 5, 2015)

well, _that_ was an episode. It just worked, in that way Mad Men is always trying to, but so often falling just a little short. I teared up during a couple scenes


----------



## Silva (May 5, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> well, _that_ was an episode. It just worked, in that way Mad Men is always trying to, but so often falling just a little short. I teared up during a couple scenes


Yeah. Everyone looked miserable in their jobs.  Other than Peggy and Harry, everyone looked like they are regretting the decision.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 5, 2015)

belboid said:


> Yay, stuff actually happened!  And very well written and performed stuff it was too. I'll have to watch it again to recall some of the cracking lines better.
> 
> Loved the (incredibly tenuous) Game of Thrones reference.


Wouldn't they all be reading Lord of the Rings by this point?


----------



## belboid (May 5, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Wouldn't they all be reading Lord of the Rings by this point?


Americans?  I think not.

Betty was reading Freud on hysteria, it should be noted - just in time for Joan's 'hysterical' (ie 100% justified) outburst. Poor woman.  Well, very rich woman, who just isn't going to be quite as rich as she thought she was.  This is the seventgies, when the corporations bite back, and there's no room for an independent woman - especially one who's now _40. 
_
Don, Don, does anyone actually give a toss about Don any more? This whole chasing the waitress story is a bit rubbish, tho it was nice to see him lie so smoothly again.  I had to check a map to find where St Paul's was in relation to Racine and NY. He's not going back then, that much seems certain.  But how will he go out?  I cant believe he'll be the falling body from the title shots, but, then, surely someone has to be?

Best scene?  Not sure, but it was definitely one with Peggy in it - either her hilarious roller skating, or her strut down the ME (is that a coincidence, the new company initials?) hallway fag and porny pic in hand. way to go!

Two episodes to go, it's almost unbearable.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 5, 2015)

I'm pretty sure the falling man is just a metaphor/symbolism,  especially at this point.

Notice how Don looked so offended and a little anxious that the windows in his office wouldn't open. He feels trapped there and soon flees (jumps ship) and soon everyone else is either talking about jumping ship...Roger (I just needed a little push) or actually doing it (Joan, etc)
In the case of Don, at least, I don't think it's a negative/suicide thing. He doesn't need what this world (the world of SCDP and whatever they are called now) was offering him anymore. It's not a tragedy.


----------



## belboid (May 5, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> I'm pretty sure the falling man is just a metaphor/symbolism,  especially at this point.


for what? I think you're probably right, but I'm  not quite sure what it's symbolic of. 



> It's not a tragedy.


Joan might disagree. Ken's wife too, maybe (as Ken should be doing something better than whoring himself for Dow)

btw, when did we last see Don do a full, really good, pitch? I cant think of one since the carousel back in series 1. He's given some good ideas, and we've heard about his winning pitches, but I don't remember seeing them, I can only recall the crap ones.  Is that symbolic of something?  Especially as the research guy made just as good a pitch as Don.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 5, 2015)

I was so pissed off that Don's secretary wouldn't take his offer of cash to be his decorator. Wtf was she thinking? She could have built a whole career off that one job, and opportunities like that don't just _happen. _
Yeah, it does seem like the fools are the only ones still aboard the ship. Except Peggy, of course.


----------



## belboid (May 5, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> I was so pissed off that Don's secretary wouldn't take his offer of cash to be his decorator. Wtf was she thinking?


to be fair, she does seem to be doing most of the work in her work hours, so technically, she is being paid for it


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 5, 2015)

belboid said:


> for what? I think you're probably right, but I'm  not quite sure what it's symbolic of.



I have a lot to say about that but will have to get back to you.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 5, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> I was so pissed off that Don's secretary wouldn't take his offer of cash to be his decorator. Wtf was she thinking? She could have built a whole career off that one job, and opportunities like that don't just _happen. _
> Yeah, it does seem like the fools are the only ones still aboard the ship. Except Peggy, of course.





belboid said:


> to be fair, she does seem to be doing most of the work in her work hours, so technically, she is being paid for it



Now that I think about it, that scene was to show more than just the fact that not all women were comfortable with the changing roles, but that Don's secretary fit right in with the climate at the new firm (sorry I'm bad at remembering names  ) which does not recognize women for their creativity or their professional abilities. Don's secretary has shown that she's intelligent, organized, diplomatic, professional, capable, and now that she has mad interior design skillz, but she's happy going unrecognized and safe in her role as "secretary" sacrificing herself and any accolades she might receive to take care of the big man (Donn) which is exactly right where the new firm wants its women.

belboid working on a side project during office hours is very different than being hired as a professional consultant, which is I think what Don was offering her. think of how different each would look on a CV : Don Draper hired me as an interior designer for his personal apartment, or : as part of my duties as a secretary to Don Draper I did some decorating side work as part of my duties/because he was single and I was acting as his adult nanny/substitute wife.


----------



## Silva (May 5, 2015)

I can see Meredith turning into Don's personal assistant if he ever leaves McCann-Erickson. She's not as competent as Dawn, but has become very... _resourceful _tip-toeing on issues after the airplane to see you incident, and with Don... yeah, important.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 5, 2015)

Silva said:


> I can see Meredith turning into Don's personal assistant if he ever leaves McCann-Erickson. She's not as competent as Dawn, but has become very... _resourceful _tip-toeing on issues after the airplane to see you incident, and with Don... yeah, important.



I'd wager we're done with her. or almost. good job remembering their names though


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 6, 2015)

belboid said:


> for what? I think you're probably right, but I'm  not quite sure what it's symbolic of.
> 
> 
> Joan might disagree. Ken's wife too, maybe (as Ken should be doing something better than whoring himself for Dow)
> ...



Ok, so to answer the big question:

There are so many possible interpretations, but just to go over a few that make sense to me. I'll start with overarching themes of the show:

1). Big time ad agency, on top of the world, led by hot-shot guys who seemingly walk on water. But the stakes are dangerously high. Lose one big client and you can be ruined. The threat of falling down is always there. Or things going from so outrageously good, at least materially, to so overwhelmingly bad overnight - that's when you get Wall Street guys jumping from their high-rises, right?

2) Falling down as a metaphor for facades crumbling (which is a metaphor too, of course, but I can't think of another way to say it   ) On the surface the agency and the lifestyle portrayed by several of the main characters and the agency itself looks really shiny and desirable. Beneath the surface, there are addictions, personal secrets, dysfunctional families, loneliness, etc, which seem to grow in relation to how much energy one puts into their work life and ignores the warning signs. The lavish, high-profile lifestyle ends up being unfulfilling, inevitably, and people are forced to deal with their demons and problems in one way or another. The castle of sand crumbles and everyone falls down from their seemingly lofty position. It's a little like Tome Petty's "Free Fallin" (sorry) where one faces the fact that they were sort of living someone else's life/ a lie and cutting those ties is very liberating. This falling is more like flying...like jumping out of a plane, or like jumping off a boat into cool water (as in Roger's Navy story) 

3) falling down as a metaphor for the social changes at the time. The old social mores of the old white men running the show and seeing women as object rather than their equals or worthy partners/ adversaries in the workplace, racial segregation....all of that beginning to crumble away. again, this sense of falling is liberating (though threatening to aforementioned old white men)

and now in terms of the Don Draper character

1) Don always on the verge of falling down the deep dark hole of his past/demons, and who he really is. The black hole is the fear, the shadow that's always following him. We see him stand and look over the precipice many times, but never actually fall/jump.

2) Falling is Don falling _away_ from his carefully crafted fake persona /fake life and all the things he built up to run away from who he really is. This is the liberating type of falling.

in my mind, several of these ideas are intertwined and suit both Don as the main character and that of other characters, the firm itself in its many version, as well as the overall theme of the show and of the time period. I like the idea of falling as suicide/falling as an unfortunate accident/ falling as flying and the fact that they all apply to the characters and the firm at different stages, and the deliberate vagueness of the metaphor.


----------



## Silva (May 11, 2015)

Well, wasn't this episode a phonebook in the face.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 11, 2015)

spoiler for last night's episode 



Spoiler



mulling things over, it seems Don either has to die in the last episode or rush home to comfort the kids / Betty. I'm a little worried that it's the former, since he just said good bye to Betty.


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## belboid (May 11, 2015)

Ohh Betty. 

Ohh Trudy.


----------



## Silva (May 12, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> spoiler for last night's episode
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I think "Don" is already dead. He quit the company to travel the midwest, and now has given away his car. At this point, unless Sally tells him about Betty, he'll disappear into oblivion just like Dick once did. 

Also, poor Betty. For the first time she has found some agency after being spending most of her adult life being just a pretty face to sit next to her husband, and this happens.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 12, 2015)

Silva said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it's ok to not use spoiler codes at this point, right?
I agree with what you said but this is what I can't figure out though: how is Don not going to find out about Betty, as he is talking with Sally on a somewhat regular basis? This is why I'm afraid he's going to die ( before he gets a chance to hear about Betty) because otherwise none of this including the last scene between Betty & Don doesn't make sense. I hope I'm wrong though


----------



## little_legs (May 14, 2015)

Couple of things:

My Pete Campbell. I am so pleased for you. I did laugh when he said: _Wichita is beautiful and wholesome. _It's fucking ugly, but he had to sell it. He is the embodiment of hope. I almost cried when he said _Good morning_ leaving the house Trudy lives in.

Kiernan Shipka. Incredible acting. 

If I am not wrong, the next episode will be the last one, but there are some many lose ends, what's going to happen to: 

Don
Peggy
Roger
Meredith
Stan
Harry
Ted


----------



## Silva (May 14, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> I think it's ok to not use spoiler codes at this point, right?
> I agree with what you said but this is what I can't figure out though: how is Don not going to find out about Betty, as he is talking with Sally on a somewhat regular basis? This is why I'm afraid he's going to die ( before he gets a chance to hear about Betty) because otherwise none of this including the last scene between Betty & Don doesn't make sense. I hope I'm wrong though


That will depend a lot on Sally. Henry sure won't tell him. Betty will avoid the drama. He'll only know when Betty can't do much more than whisper to a phone.



little_legs said:


> Couple of things:
> 
> My Pete Campbell. I am so pleased for you. I did laugh when he said: _Wichita is beautiful and wholesome. _It's fucking ugly, but he had to sell it. He is the embodiment of hope. I almost cried when he said _Good morning_ leaving the house Trudy lives in.
> 
> ...


Pete got less of a prick as time went on. He started by having an irrational envy of Don, but started to realize that life he coveted for himself just wasn't all that it was meant to be. The whiny, always frustrated Pete of the past seasons just someone who's still trying to find out where he would fit (I doubt it's in Kansas, but with Trudy? Yeah, I think he'll try to make things work this time).

So, predictions.
Don, struck by Betty's death, goes to Washington and becomes an anti-tobacco lobbyist (this time for real) with Meredith as personal assistant.  Peggy (and Stan, her right-hand man) climb the ranks on McCann-Ericson. Roger retires from advertising, until out of boredom he decides to pitch Sterling-Olson-Rizzo. Harry goes to LA and becomes a porn producer after his casting couch antics are exposed. Ted becomes a soulless cog in the machine. 

If I get *one* right, I'd be happy.


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## joustmaster (May 17, 2015)

I've just found out that pete's actor isn't losing his hair.
They've been shaving more and more each series.


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## belboid (May 17, 2015)

Just bought the ingredients for the Old Fashioneds and Manhattans that will be required tomorrow night - bloody hell, I never knew Angostura Bitters were so bloody expensive!


----------



## Silva (May 17, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I've just found out that pete's actor isn't losing his hair.
> They've been shaving more and more each series.


I found amusing on how John Slattery (Roger) and Kevin Rahm (Ted) were not allowed to organically grow the porno moustaches to avoid spoilers, but Vince Kartheiser has been shaving his hairline closer and closer to the back of his neck for 3 or 4 years running.


----------



## Silva (May 18, 2015)

Observations as I'm watching



Spoiler



Donald Draper,_ DANGER SEEKER_
The whats-his-name Joan is now seeing seems more a slightly grown up version of Roger
Is it me, or Don and Betty would have made a much better couple now than when they were married?
_ALL I GOT WAS SUITCASE, YELL AT ME SLOWER OR IN ENGLISH_
-So he knows? -He's just a terrible person
_I met her through Megan Draper, she's old enough to be her mother. Actually, she's her mother.
Little rich bastard. I guess he really is, I guess._
I'm really going to miss Roger.
Dick Whitman, _HIPPIE_
In this episode: Joan sits in front of people
Hey, I guessed the someone-Olson part.
_I know how people work_. So true of Don, but also so wrong. He figured out what everyone wants but not himself.
I'd watch the hell out of a Peggy-Stan spin-off.
Aaaaaaaand Joan met another douche.
The Peggy-Donald phone moment. Damn. Damn.
FFS, Stan and Peggy, _get married already_.
Yay!

Aaaaaand Don is finally at peace.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

Some random thoughts on the finale (that Silva can probably be laughing at pretty much as I type, due to my wrongness):

Only Betty will die - and of course it had to be cancer. The series has been so full of ciagrettes, and it pretty much began with a denial of the consequences of smoking ('they're toasted'), so it was only right and proper that someone major had to go out that way.  Poor Betty, but there you go.

Don will not only not die, he will thrive.  he has realised that old life he ran away from but wasn't really sure if he should have, would have been awful. Had he not become Don he would have been a dull old boy, an unamusing alcoholic without the debonair good looks (and money) to get away with it.  He wil lwalk back into the office, saying 'I'm Don Draper, from Erickson McCann'

Pete - always the most self aware character, in point of bizarre fact - will be happy for six months, and then realise Wichita is a shithole and start shagging his secretaries again.  But in a Lear Jet!

The other guys will all do okay, have lovely comfortable lives that amount to nothing.

Peggy will become a legend, the new Don Draper.

Joan - I dont know, I hope she is bored to death with her tedious husband and her lack of real ambition


----------



## Silva (May 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> Some random thoughts on the finale (that Silva can probably be laughing at pretty much as I type, due to my wrongness):
> 
> Only Betty will die - and of course it had to be cancer. The series has been so full of ciagrettes, and it pretty much began with a denial of the consequences of smoking ('they're toasted'), so it was only right and proper that someone major had to go out that way.  Poor Betty, but there you go.
> 
> ...



Been trying to make a comment, but all I tried got a bit spoilery, so no.

I'm just going to say yes, a Lear Jet is involved.


----------



## little_legs (May 18, 2015)

I was dreading the end, and have read elsewhere this morning that it was a meh ending, but I've just seen the finale and I loved it.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

I'm claiming that!


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> I'm claiming that!


I'm not quite sure which bit I'm claiming, but I think I got at least one out of six....

A great last episode. Laughed and bloody well cried.  Of course that had to happen.  And that.

For a show with so many Old Fashioneds and Manhattans, I'm surprised there was no dash of bitters in the end.

Advertising, eh?  Such shallow, superficial, bullshit.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 19, 2015)

little_legs said:


> I was dreading the end, and have read elsewhere this morning that it was a meh ending, but I've just seen the finale and I loved it.



I thought the ending was spot on...it is exactly what would have happened. As far as Don, without giving too much away it's like he learned the lesson "wherever you go, there you are" and that the only thing you can really change is yourself and how you respond to situations. Don didn't need to become someone else or go back to being Dick Whitman or to have any kind of life-altering cosmic experience, he just needed to accept himself and stop running away.

the Stan & Peggy stuff was cringeworthy but I think it was a nod to the fans so I'll let it go.

I was surprised to see a bunch of negative reviews this morning too, but I'm wondering if reviewers might have been very cautious about liking the episode because they assumed fans would be let down.

personally, I wasn't let down in the least bit. great ending.


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## joustmaster (May 19, 2015)

I agree. A good ending. 
People will always complain about endings, for lots of reasons. Its best to just accept them and enjoy them.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 19, 2015)

Spoiler



Does anyone think the implication is that Joan & Peggy's production company ended up making the Coke ad? Probably not, but it's amusing to think about. And by the way, since I'm not sure about in the UK but that ad was HUGE here. They reused it for decades. Everyone knew the song.


----------



## joustmaster (May 19, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone think the implication is that Joan & Peggy's production company ended up making the Coke ad? Probably not, but it's amusing to think about. And by the way, since I'm not sure about in the UK but that ad was HUGE here. They reused it for decades. Everyone knew the song.


It was definitely all Don, in my opinion.
He was on a similar hill top, and the woman looked like the woman in the video.

I think some people think that because peggy was shown typing a plan just before the end, and it just put the idea in their mind.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 19, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> It was definitely all Don, in my opinion.
> He was on a similar hill top, and the woman looked like the woman in the video.
> 
> I think some people think that because peggy was shown typing a plan just before the end, and it just put the idea in their mind.





Spoiler



I didn't mean that they had the idea, just that they got rich off actually organizing the filming and other details of the commercial. I mean, for something of that scale you'd hire a production company, right?


----------



## joustmaster (May 19, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't mean that they had the idea, just that they got rich off actually organizing the filming and other details of the commercial. I mean, for something of that scale you'd hire a production company, right?


Ah ok. 
That would be nice.

erickson mccann seem like a huge beast, probably with their own team and stuff.


----------



## Silva (May 19, 2015)

Miss Caphat said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone think the implication is that Joan & Peggy's production company ended up making the Coke ad? Probably not, but it's amusing to think about. And by the way, since I'm not sure about in the UK but that ad was HUGE here. They reused it for decades. Everyone knew the song.





Spoiler



Peggy stayed at McCann (for the time being). Certainly could see her and Stan walk off in a contract dispute later on. Just give me a Joan-Peggy-Stan 6 episode mini-series in the mid 70s.


I don't remember the ad, but I recall some beautifully illustrated ads with the same imagery on Disney comic books from the mid 80s.




joustmaster said:


> I agree. A good ending.
> People will always complain about endings, for lots of reasons. Its best to just accept them and enjoy them.


I'm just complaining because it's over. I think everyone got what they deserved.


Spoiler



Don learned to accept him for what he his - he's as much Don as he's Dick. A lot of his problems came from his insecurities, if he found a way to be Don without the fear his Dick comes out (phrasing) and stopped trying to fill that hole inside of him with women, he should be fine.
Peggy asserted herself as a key player in McCann. I've seen some criticisms over her "shacking up" instead of being a strong independent woman, but Stan has her back covered and is willing to call out on her bullshit and give her some perspective without being condescending or patronizing. And Peggy needed that.
Joan has found validation in work, as she always did. She once told Peggy the secretary that getting married is the end game, but in time noticed that the development on her "empty lot" comes from work, not men. And as Roger decides to put the little rich bastard on his will, she can use her money as she damn well pleases instead of conditioning her future to save his.
Like Don, Pete has realized that some things are more important than others. Is he going to like Wichita? No, he won't. But as his divorced, bald perceived powerlessness in SC&P increased, he noticed he had all that he started the series to envy on Don: A beautiful wife, a beautiful daughter, and the power and respect he wanted from the start. And now a Lear Jet at his command (and we know how Pete loves these tokens of power).
Roger has found someone to have a relationship in equal footing. Marie is like Roger in many ways.

The only exceptions are Betty (I get the character was at times incredibly obnoxious, but with Henry she learned that if she didn't want to be the pretty face next to the husband, she'd have to go out and do something about it) but now that she has, time had run out, and Sally (who has to become a mother to their brothers).
Also, Ken looked happy, but is he? He seemed to join Dow mostly out of spite, considering everyone he might have had a beef with is gone, how long before he wants to retire and write novels?


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## belboid (May 19, 2015)

It was definitely Don that made that ad, no one else could have done.  Okay, maybe Peggy, once she'd heard the story of what happened to Don..  But, no, it was Don's baby.  Which was good, because I was pretty bored of Don's story up till then.  It did nicely throw off the Dick/Don dilemma, finally the character realises,  in classic existential fashion, that he didn't have any essential essence he had inherited from his alcoholic parents, he wasn't inevitably trapped in a past not of his own making, no, he made himself and makes himself and makes himself again with every action and every decision he takes. And who is he?  He's Don motherfucking Draper, and he is _awesome_.

If I have a quibble - and I do like to quibble - it was just a little too sweet. Everything for everyone?  We already knew about Betty, so that doesnt count, and as for Joan's bloke - fuck him, he was always an obvious asshole. Otherwise, sweetness and light all the way.

And we didn't get to see Harry being beaten to death or arrested for just being horrid.


----------



## Silva (May 19, 2015)

belboid said:


> It was definitely Don that made that ad, no one else could have done.  Okay, maybe Peggy, once she'd heard the story of what happened to Don..  But, no, it was Don's baby.  Which was good, because I was pretty bored of Don's story up till then.  It did nicely throw off the Dick/Don dilemma, finally the character realises,  in classic existential fashion, that he didn't have any essential essence he had inherited from his alcoholic parents, he wasn't inevitably trapped in a past not of his own making, no, he made himself and makes himself and makes himself again with every action and every decision he takes. And who is he?  He's Don motherfucking Draper, and he is _awesome_.
> 
> If I have a quibble - and I do like to quibble - it was just a little too sweet. Everything for everyone?  We already knew about Betty, so that doesnt count, and as for Joan's bloke - fuck him, he was always an obvious asshole. Otherwise, sweetness and light all the way.
> 
> And we didn't get to see Harry being beaten to death or arrested for just being horrid.


In a way, I think Don's smile at the end was him figuring out the next decade.

It's sweet for everyone, but there's a darker subtext for everyone. Peggy and Stan are great together, but they're inside a company that chews down creative people as Don noticed. Joan is doing her stuff, but still alone (alone but not lonely?). Pete was born in the East Coast cosmopolitan elite, he's going to HATE Kansas.
Except Roger. But Roger would be fine regardless, as long as he's alive  And Don - if the cryptic smile meant he has "got it" or just thought "now, here's an idea Coke will love...", he'll be better in the 70s than he ever was in the 60s.

It's also what nobody expect. Most expected Don to die, Peggy to turn into Don, Roger to have a heart attack, Joan to marry just to say she's married, etc. In a way, sweetness is nice because the whole show had a coating of darkness (and nicotine, so much nicotine) over every character.

Harry got what he deserved, that is the continuous disdain from his "friends"._ Eat a cookie, shut up and go wait in the car downstairs_. That's the perfect send-off to Harry.


----------



## belboid (May 19, 2015)

Silva said:


> Harry got what he deserved, that is the continuous disdain from his "friends"._ Eat a cookie, shut up and go wait in the car downstairs_. That's the perfect send-off to Harry.


I'd have preferred one that involved a baseball bat, but yeah, the sheer disdain for him was lovely.


----------



## little_legs (May 19, 2015)

I've always liked Harry, and I enjoyed every scene he was in throughout the show. There is nothing fake about him. Everything he said, both ridiculous and more or less normal, every type of behavior he has displayed is very human. I see people like that every day. Heck, I act like Harry sometimes, and I don't think that makes me a baseball bat candidate.

The one character that I fell for and then completely fell out with is Ted. The day he offered Don a drink before Hershey presentation, Ted was put in the bad book. And I was right. He did not even merit a cameo in the finale because he is a feeble twat.

Miss Caphat I actually enjoyed Peggy & Stan confession. This is how guys like Matt Wieiner and Aaron Sorkin do love confessions.

belboid Plenty of sadness: Sally, the stuff that kid was exposed to before she reached 17/18 (don't know how old she is when the series ends, but let's face it, she is a kid) is both incredible and atrocious. I am a grown ass adult and I haven't experienced half of the torment she went through. She has to arrange her mother's funeral and take care of her siblings because Henry is completely incapable of being an adult. And last but not least: Ken. He did not want the partnership because he understood how it would corrupt his life, he never hid his qualms about Dow Chemical's activities, and what does he do in the end? He succumbs and goes to work for Dow Chemical.

I've never seen a character like Roger on TV. He is wonderful.

Did any of you recognize '_His name is Ned. Well, I don't like his head.' _from the West Wing as Leonard in the final episode.

I keep remembering weird and wonderful characters from the past seasons. My favorite is Randall Walsh, the insurance guy. Who said something like he wants a campaign with burning Molotov cocktail with his company’s name at the bottom. The other one is Lotus, a woman Don and Roger meet at the LA house party. She just laughs and then Roger gets punched in his balls by their former employee. The lady-burgler who burgled the entire building and told Don's kids she was his mother.


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## belboid (May 20, 2015)

little_legs said:


> I've always liked Harry, and I enjoyed every scene he was in throughout the show. There is nothing fake about him. Everything he said, both ridiculous and more or less normal, every type of behavior he has displayed is very human. I see people like that every day. Heck, I act like Harry sometimes, and I don't think that makes me a baseball bat candidate.


are we on about the same person?  Harry was  nasty little sex pest, without an ounce of self awareness but as much self righteous expectation as Pete. Evidence throughout the seasons, his harassment of Joan, his sounding off at the board meeting that cost him any chance of a partnershgip.  Horrible, horrible, man.



> belboid Plenty of sadness: Sally, the stuff that kid was exposed to before she reached 17/18 (don't know how old she is when the series ends, but let's face it, she is a kid) is both incredible and atrocious. I am a grown ass adult and I haven't experienced half of the torment she went through. She has to arrange her mother's funeral and take care of her siblings because Henry is completely incapable of being an adult. And last but not least: Ken. He did not want the partnership because he understood how it would corrupt his life, he never hid his qualms about Dow Chemical's activities, and what does he do in the end? He succumbs and goes to work for Dow Chemical.


all true, but all got out of the way before the last episode, so that we could have a last episode that was (eventually) all sweetness.


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## Silva (May 20, 2015)

belboid said:


> are we on about the same person?  Harry was  nasty little sex pest, without an ounce of self awareness but as much self righteous expectation as Pete. Evidence throughout the seasons, his harassment of Joan, his sounding off at the board meeting that cost him any chance of a partnershgip.  Horrible, horrible, man.


And trying to put Megan on a casting couch, being shot down right after Megan noticed that, yeah, it's exactly what it looks, and then running after Don to tell him the opposite story, as if he wouldn't be aware this happened.

If anything, Harry deserves some credit for pushing for the TV department (which helped to keep the company afloat), but barely get any recognition for it. He'd be a likeable, sad-sack character if he wasn't such a colossal creep.


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## belboid (May 20, 2015)

Silva said:


> And trying to put Megan on a casting couch, being shot down right after Megan noticed that, yeah, it's exactly what it looks, and then running after Don to tell him the opposite story, as if he wouldn't be aware this happened.
> 
> If anything, Harry deserves some credit for pushing for the TV department (which helped to keep the company afloat), but barely get any recognition for it. He'd be a likeable, sad-sack character if he wasn't such a colossal creep.


He'd have been a multi-millionairre partner if he wasn't such a colossal creep


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## Silva (May 20, 2015)

belboid said:


> He'd have been a multi-millionairre partner if he wasn't such a colossal creep


That's sums up how much of a creep he is. He cheated himself out of a fortune, and everyone on the company has nothing but contempt for him. I still remember Ken's smile after the partners shut the door on Harry as he tried to salvage his potential partnership as one of the high points of Ken 

What's weird is that he started as the decent one in Pete's entourage. Pete was a little shit. Ken was chasing skirt all over the office, Kinsey was an elitist douche. Harry was just... normal. But as Pete slowly improved, One-eyed Ken settled as a family man and Kinsey was written out, Harry got worse and worse as every season went by.


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## little_legs (May 20, 2015)

belboid said:


> are we on about the same person?  Harry was  nasty little sex pest, without an ounce of self awareness but as much self righteous expectation as Pete. Evidence throughout the seasons, his harassment of Joan, his sounding off at the board meeting that cost him any chance of a partnershgip.  Horrible, horrible, man.



Yes, we are on about the same person. None of the characters swore an oath of decency and high morals, and not one of them is completely faultless. Harry did what he thought was best in the circumstances, and provided a decent amount of entertainment being a human being, not some _Ok, I'll always do the right ting _sort of guy. Or someone who does something bad and then feels remorse. We all wriggle and maneuver every day in our lives trying to validate our actions and principles, and yes, sometimes it's done at the expense of others or by being horrible to others. So what.



Silva said:


> ...Harry got worse and worse as every season went by.


It's true, unlike the rest of the original gang, Harry got angrier and bitter as time went by. He did not really learn from his mistakes. But then again, it does happen.


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## Silva (May 21, 2015)

Ambiguity? Screw ambiguity!

_*Yes, Don Draper created the Coke ad.*_


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