# Radicalism, and reserve armies



## october_lost (Feb 1, 2012)

I did'nt want to derail this thread
Basically, if membership of the reserve army (Territorial Army in the UK), don't include front-line active service, or any explicitly repressive activity, why should it restrict people who want to challenge or overthrow the existing order from joining? Should it at all? Personally I don't thinl so, but the role you can play in the TA is probably sketchy at best.

A conversation awhile ago with a South American platformist*, confirmed that members of his group had joined their countries reserves for something akin to "combat experience" and this was seen as beneficial. Is that explicitly wrong?

*To the layperson, platformism/platformists are tightly-knit anarchist organisations which organisationally act in unity. See Anarkismo


----------



## JHE (Feb 1, 2012)

Hmmm... I thought this was going to be about the reserve army of labour.  It turns out to be about the Territorial Army or whatever it's going to be called now.

As a "layperson", I'd just like to point out two things.

1.  The TA tries to weed out political applicants who want military training in order to use their new skills in illegal ways.

2.  Hardly any Anarcho-Wotsits could hack it in the TA.  Even if you were allowed in, you'd drop out or be kicked out soon enough and probably before you got your eager little mits on anything lethal.


----------



## JHE (Feb 1, 2012)

Plus...

3.  If you joined now and (against expectations) could hack it, you would run a risk of being sent off for a tour of duty in bloody Afghanistan.  Not your idea of fun, I suggest.


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 1, 2012)

october_lost said:


> I did'nt want to derail this thread
> Basically, if membership of the reserve army (Territorial Army in the UK), don't include front-line active service, or any explicitly repressive activity, why should it restrict people who want to challenge or overthrow the existing order from joining? Should it at all? Personally I don't thinl so, but the role you can play in the TA is probably sketchy at best.
> 
> A conversation awhile ago with a South American platformist*, confirmed that members of his group had joined their countries reserves for something akin to "combat experience" and this was seen as beneficial. Is that explicitly wrong?
> ...





JHE said:


> Plus...
> 
> 3. If you joined now and (against expectations) could hack it, you would run a risk of being sent off for a tour of duty in bloody Afghanistan. Not your idea of fun, I suggest.



thats highly likely

The army reserve is a favoured choice of leftists in places like Venezuela..not anarchists but the broad left spectrum .With all sorts of US intrigues , rightist coups , aggression from Colombia etc its quite wise that the left learn to be able to fight back if the need arises and not simply be carted off to the football stadium . However theres a huge difference in adopting this position in a country thats highly unlikely to engage in an imperialist war and more likely to need to defend its sovereignty , and one which is engaged in one and violating the sovereignty of other nations  . In Britian your quite likely to find yourself getting a letter in the post one morning  as a means of introduction to Johnny Taliban if you embark down the territorial route.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 1, 2012)

plus all the full timers will rip the piss out of you for being a weekend warrior.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 1, 2012)

i've always been a supporter of national service, which would seem to get round most of jhe's objections.


----------



## silverfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Is there not a history of reservist organisations stepping away from "oppressive" actions directed by Gvts, turning and being at the forefront of "rebel" actions

I've nowt to base this on other than a sense of de ja veu that I've been party to discussions about this and an understanding that territorial/reservist units potentially have less cohesion or at least less disciplinary control and more free thinking, especially when directed towards civpop

Would be interesting to plot the heritage of the units involved in "turning" in the various arab spring countries and the ti ings of their change in allegiance


----------



## dylanredefined (Feb 1, 2012)

Unless you have a criminal record are a known security risk or otherwise obviously dodgy we would take you. Afghanistan is closing down so you might have missed your chance.
     Though you do swear  allegiance to the crown your allowed to be a lefty.Though expect the piss taken out of you.Though the army is
a lot less racist and sexist than it was and is even trying to stop being homophobic its still not very PC.
     Though since princess Di got upset over landmines don't expect any lessons on building ieds (booby traps are out) and becoming a sniper is really hard.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 1, 2012)

Can't see the average leftie coping frankly.
 The wannabe ALF bomber who tried to join left after being ordered to kill worms.
 Would have been a rabbit but that would have then planning 

Still did better than the two "aryan race warriors"  who worried command because they'd have to find the bit in queens regulations where you can't join because frankly you scare us 
 But they quit on the three mile run solving that problem in a truly pathetic manner.


----------



## xenon (Feb 1, 2012)

What? Seriously. What bennefits would it confer upon specifically UK based platformists? How to take orders. How to run cross country. Handle weapons no significant numbers of civillions will be able to get hold of anyway. It seems an inplausible, risible,even  reason, for joining the TA.


----------



## xenon (Feb 1, 2012)

This is not a post.


----------



## october_lost (Feb 2, 2012)

As OP suggests the remit for joining, would be non-joining of frontline fighting. If TA membership made it compulsory to be scootered out to Afghanistan, then its a non-starter.




			
				Casually Red said:
			
		

> The army reserve is a favoured choice of leftists in places like Venezuela..not anarchists but the broad left spectrum .With all sorts of US intrigues , rightist coups , aggression from Colombia etc its quite wise that the left learn to be able to fight back if the need arises and not simply be carted off to the football stadium . However theres a huge difference in adopting this position in a country thats highly unlikely to engage in an imperialist war and more likely to need to defend its sovereignty , and one which is engaged in one and violating the sovereignty of other nations . In Britian your quite likely to find yourself getting a letter in the post one morning as a means of introduction to Johnny Taliban if you embark down the territorial route.


This is a fair point, but the comrade in question was from Chile, not exactly Cuba, Venezuela or Bolivia in the leftist stakes, but still I appreciate the role of their armed forces may differ significantly.

@ Silverfish, Colin Ward was in the reserves from what I can make out.




			
				dylanredefined said:
			
		

> Though you do swear allegiance to the crown your allowed to be a lefty.


Is there an exact moto you have to adhere to? Also I am not sure I would count myself as being a lefty, though gathering from a conversation I had with an ex-squaddie I imagine theres more than a few BNP supporters in the army.

@likefish, what you mentioned, were these ever news items?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 2, 2012)

xenon said:


> What? Seriously. What bennefits would it confer upon specifically UK based platformists? How to take orders. How to run cross country. Handle weapons no significant numbers of civillions will be able to get hold of anyway. It seems an inplausible, risible,even reason, for joining the TA.



No UK based platformists are advocating it as far as I know, don't know where you got that from??

In answer to the OP I think maybe martial arts might be a more appropriate route in this country, if people want to learn how to fight.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 2, 2012)

No skinhead nutjobs fails to join the TA not exactly news.
 OC officer commanding a major. Was worried these two idiots were attempting to join for the above reasons .
  Banning somebody for politcal reasons unusual thing.
 They failed the 3 mile run in a spectacular manner so end of the problem.
    The militant veggie was just bullied but showed rather two keen on learning about explosives .


----------



## JHE (Feb 2, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> In answer to the OP I think maybe martial arts might be a more appropriate route in this country, if people want to learn how to fight.



...or get an Xbox and spend hours zapping your enemies from the safety of your anarcho-bedrooms...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 2, 2012)

Well I joined the Army cadets as a teen - not for political reasons but cos I thought it might be fun.

It wasn't  - it was shit.

However I learnt how to move through a minefield, how to go for a shit whilst warrying an NBC suit and the best choice of AT missile to take out a Soviet T72.

Thus far I have found these skills of limited use within my expericnce of left wing activism.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

I'd argue that beyond a basic fitness regime and live fire training the army doesn't actually have much to offer the would be revo.
The rest is training and backing within a conventional force, the boys with the big guns and the tanks and the shiny death from above. It's training within an orthodox army structure which imparts some skills but for the likelihood of a fighting revolution, well surely guerilla tactics and training would impart more advantage-


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 2, 2012)

Woodcraft folk?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

'the paramilitary wing of the co-operative society'

-Alexi Sayle


----------



## JHE (Feb 2, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> ...how to go for a shit whilst warrying [wearing] an NBC suit...



How do you?  Do you wear inco pads and just put up with the discomfort for Queen and Country?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 2, 2012)

JHE said:


> How do you? Do you wear inco pads and just put up with the discomfort for Queen and Country?



Sorry - not actually in the suit - going for a shit in a radioactive environment - Decomtaminate everything with some white powder IIRC. I remember thinking  that blowing your own brains out with your SLR was probably the more sensible option in such a scenairo.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd argue that beyond a basic fitness regime and live fire training the army doesn't actually have much to offer the would be revo.
> The rest is training and backing within a conventional force, the boys with the big guns and the tanks and the shiny death from above. It's training within an orthodox army structure which imparts some skills but for the likelihood of a fighting revolution, well surely guerilla tactics and training would impart more advantage-



I reckon that probably the only handy thing military training would add to the equation is a respect for chain-of-command, which is pretty much necessary in any organisation in order to keep people (even cells) acting within the organisation's remit.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 2, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Sorry - not actually in the suit - going for a shit in a radioactive environment - Decomtaminate everything with some white powder IIRC. I remember thinking that blowing your own brains out with your SLR was probably the more sensible option in such a scenairo.



Mind you, you needed long arms to be able to do that.


----------



## Fuchs66 (Feb 2, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mind you, you needed long arms to be able to do that.


or thin toes


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 2, 2012)

Fuchs66 said:


> or thin toes



Which excludes every fucker who ever wore DMS or Ammo boots.


----------



## treelover (Feb 2, 2012)

When I was in the TA I went on a commeration march for the Birkenhead unemployed riots(which occurred in 1932), I was hauled in by the C/O and asked if I was a communist, I'm not, that was it, nothing else happened, a number of NF in my regiment though and the Q/M was an Austrian who believed in Lebensraum(not making that up!)


----------



## likesfish (Feb 2, 2012)

although having the discipline not to  fall alseep/ get stoned on sentry duty.
 not dig in at the crossroads you just seized (because obvious artillery targets are best avoided) are quite handy hints that some libyan rebels needed to learn rather quickly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 2, 2012)

JHE said:


> ...or get an Xbox and spend hours zapping your enemies from the safety of your anarcho-bedrooms...


Research done for the us army indicates first person shooter games are good training for recruits / potential recruits


----------



## dylanredefined (Feb 2, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Research done for the us army indicates first person shooter games are good training for recruits / potential recruits


        Well it gets them in the door after that not a lot of use.



DotCommunist said:


> I'd argue that beyond a basic fitness regime and live fire training the army doesn't actually have much to offer the would be revo.
> The rest is training and backing within a conventional force, the boys with the big guns and the tanks and the shiny death from above. It's training within an orthodox army structure which imparts some skills but for the likelihood of a fighting revolution, well surely guerilla tactics and training would impart more advantage-


    SAS R are recruiting that would fufill all your needs its helps if your mad though.Or think triathlons are fun ,but,not a serious workout.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 2, 2012)

There's a  new book out which is an answer to the new Paul Mason Why Its Kicking off Everywhere, and you can read it online here:
Occupy Everything! Reflections on why it’s kicking off everywhere
http://www.scribd.com/doc/79641340/Occupy-Everything-Reflections-on-why-it’s-kicking-off-everywhere
includes a short chapter called "Radicalising the armed forces"  (p.81) - not read it myself (I cant read on computers), but it seems fairly relevant to this thread.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

dylanredefined said:


> SAS R are recruiting that would fufill all your needs its helps if your mad though.Or think triathlons are fun ,but,not a serious workout.


 
I'm more suited to GCHQ


----------



## october_lost (Feb 2, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> In answer to the OP I think maybe martial arts might be a more appropriate route in this country, if people want to learn how to fight.


Point taken, but you would pay for the privilege, rather than vice a versa.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 2, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mind you, you needed long arms to be able to do that.



Well we never got to play with SLRs. Just old 303's and Bren Guns and half a dozen blank rounds.


----------



## stuff_it (Feb 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> plus all the full timers will rip the piss out of you for being a weekend warrior.


Lots of activists will have already been through this though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 2, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Well we never got to play with SLRs. Just old 303's and Bren Guns and half a dozen blank rounds.


 
'just'? a lee enfield is still accurate and lethal for up to a mile


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> 'just'? a lee enfield is still accurate and lethal for up to a mile



Oh yes - would be more then adequate for a people's militia. No nearly as much fun as an automatic though.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 2, 2012)

Tbf automatic fire unless it's at point blank range is mostly a waste of ammo.
   Fun though


----------



## Blagsta (Feb 2, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Well we never got to play with SLRs. Just old 303's and Bren Guns and half a dozen blank rounds.


----------



## silverfish (Feb 2, 2012)

I fear people who find weapons fun almost as much as I fear keen martial artists


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 2, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Well we never got to play with SLRs. Just old 303's and Bren Guns and half a dozen blank rounds.


 while listening to the wireless


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 2, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> while listening to the wireless



Stupid boy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 3, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Oh yes - would be more then adequate for a people's militia. No nearly as much fun as an automatic though.


 
Don't agree. A decent SMLE is much better. Makes you care about proper aiming, is less likely to jam, and it's a lot easier to pop two strippers into the mag than bung 20 rounds into an empty SLR mag, as my thumbs know only too well!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 3, 2012)

Blagsta said:


>


 
Bass as a weapon, Blags. Bass as a weapon.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 3, 2012)

silverfish said:


> I fear people who find weapons fun almost as much as I fear keen martial artists


 
Firearms aren't "fun" or "non-fun", they're just tools.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Bass as a weapon, Blags. Bass as a weapon.


----------

