# Wanky work speak



## friendofdorothy (Sep 25, 2022)

I'm involved in various charities as a volunteer and as trustee, and the staff and trustees often seem to talk a different language than plain English.  I suppose it is academic speak, management speak or perhaps general business speak from whatever field they've worked in. 

I'm forever asking "what does that mean?" I often feel I'm the only one brave enough to ask.

Are they doing this to make me feel stupid? Or themselves feel more important? Or just trying to make whatever simple thing they are doing sound more impressive than it is?

I'd like to hear some examples of wanky language you have come across lately.


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 25, 2022)

mango5 you gave me some fine examples at the picnic that I have completely forgotten now, can you refresh my memory?


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## Santino (Sep 25, 2022)

It's likely that lots of other people don't understand that kind of jargon, and if you say ''Could you talk us through what that actually means in practical terms?' or something similar, plenty would be grateful that someone has asked.


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## alex_ (Sep 25, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'm involved in various charities as a volunteer and as trustee, and the staff and trustees often seem to talk a different language than plain English.  I suppose it is academic speak, management speak or perhaps general business speak from whatever field they've worked in.
> 
> I'm forever asking "what does that mean?" I often feel I'm the only one brave enough to ask.
> 
> ...



I’ll revert to you with some examples


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## Santino (Sep 25, 2022)

alex_ said:


> I’ll revert to you with some examples


Could you circle back before COP?


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## ash (Sep 25, 2022)

Blue sky thinking
Thought showers - as brain storming is politically incorrect (might offend people with epilepsy).


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## alex_ (Sep 25, 2022)

I use low hanging fruit, but only because it’s the nuts


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## jontz01 (Sep 25, 2022)

We should touch base.


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 25, 2022)

Thanks for reaching out.


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 25, 2022)

“Nice to e-meet you”


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## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2022)

synergy 


oh get to fuck


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 25, 2022)

“Deep dive”

Fuck off.


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## Storm Fox (Sep 25, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> “Deep dive”
> 
> Fuck off.


Fire Drill, when it has nothing to do with an annual health and safety regualtion.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> “Deep dive”
> 
> Fuck off.


Drill down


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## oryx (Sep 25, 2022)

'Action this'.


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## A380 (Sep 25, 2022)

'Socialise this idea'.


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## nogojones (Sep 25, 2022)

Santino said:


> It's likely that lots of other people don't understand that kind of jargon, and if you say ''Could you talk us through what that actually means in practical terms?' or something similar, plenty would be grateful that someone has asked.


You have to be listening in the first place to ask those sort of questions and I seldom am.


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## jontz01 (Sep 25, 2022)

During my time as an MIS developer at a large college, we had a lengthy meeting with all the heads of faculties and all the top bods. One of my co-workers had stood and explained to the room for FAR too long, using jargon and stats that we weren't on track for a good year. It was mid summer, nearly knocking off time and everyone in the room looked tired and confused. I stood up and said bluntly, "what my colleague is trying to say is, you all need to sort your shit out so we can make some money". I got some chuckles and smirks, I thought I'd pulled it off. I was never allowed back in SMT meetings again and got pulled up for redundancy a couple of months later. I gladly took the package and swore I'd never work in admin again.


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## Artaxerxes (Sep 25, 2022)

It is what it is


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## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2022)

Surprised we've not had leadership yet. Because what they mean isn't actually leadership, the sort of person you'd follow through hell,  but senior management who couldn't lead you to a piss up in a brewery. 

Also the trend for renaming senior hr managers as people officers


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## xenon (Sep 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Surprised we've not had leadership yet. Because what they mean isn't actually leadership, the sort of person you'd follow through hell,  but senior management who couldn't lead you to a piss up in a brewery.
> 
> Also the trend for renaming senior hr managers as people officers



Yeah. What was wrong with personnel in the first place. Human resources as oft said, sounds all too cold and a bit macabre.


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 25, 2022)

xenon said:


> Yeah. What was wrong with personnel in the first place. Human resources as oft said, sounds all too cold and a bit macabre.


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## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2022)

hmm without give to much away we had to make a choice in my company in the last few weeks
company said aye

someone with a thigh fist or ego got involved

we have the ego not the worker

but lets all pull together


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## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm without give to much away we had to make a choice in my company in the last few weeks
> company said aye
> 
> someone with a thigh fist or ego got involved
> ...


A thigh fist you say. What a curious affliction


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## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2022)

like scrooge on how many candles Bob Cratchit was allowed to use

when you have eclectic lights

my jobs odd where it problem hire another manager

not someone to do the role


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 25, 2022)

ok why is it always me who has to ask? what the f do these mean?



Santino said:


> Could you circle back before COP?





Ax^ said:


> synergy
> 
> 
> oh get to fuck





Storm Fox said:


> Fire Drill, when it has nothing to do with an annual health and safety regualtion.





A380 said:


> 'Socialise this idea'.





Ax^ said:


> hmm without give to much away we had to make a choice in my company in the last few weeks
> company said aye
> 
> someone with a thigh fist or ego got involved
> ...


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 25, 2022)

sorry should have said ''Could you talk us through what that actually means in practical terms?'


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## bluescreen (Sep 25, 2022)

xenon said:


> Yeah. What was wrong with personnel in the first place. Human resources as oft said, sounds all too cold and a bit macabre.


We used to call them anti-personnel in the olden days, then inhuman resources.


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## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2022)

synergy = we been bought out be subservient to the parent company  
lets all pull together = we let someone with experience and skills walk out of the company manage it


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## Storm Fox (Sep 25, 2022)

Fire Drill: When there is a big fuck up at a customer and a lot of people need to get involved and fix the issue quickly*

*I think, I have never asked. but that's the context of how it's used


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## jontz01 (Sep 25, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It is what it is


That's not work speak, that's life speak!


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## A380 (Sep 25, 2022)

A380 said:


> 'Socialise this idea'.



Tell other people in different teams about it..

It is wank.


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## eatmorecheese (Sep 25, 2022)

'Populate' your Outlook calendar.

Populate? You want people in there or something? Fuck off and get a thesaurus


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## two sheds (Sep 25, 2022)

COP = close of play?


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## oryx (Sep 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Surprised we've not had leadership yet. Because what they mean isn't actually leadership, the sort of person you'd follow through hell,  but senior management who couldn't lead you to a piss up in a brewery.
> 
> Also the trend for renaming senior hr managers as people officers


I seem to remember they were called 'employee engagement' something or others in my last place of work.

I've tried, with some success, to blank all that sort of thing from my memory.


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## Steel Icarus (Sep 26, 2022)

_You need to have a robust conversation_
_Please can you cascade this info_


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## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

Steel Icarus said:


> _You need to have a robust conversation
> Please can you cascade this info_


Where I work they changed an important system that worked and people were happy using to one that didn't work and no one liked. And rather than give people proper training they 'cascaded' it through managers to staff. Three months later the senior managers declared victory and had a drinks reception for themselves to celebrate. A year after introduction a colleague told me her team still didn't use the new system because no one understood it. Several years on it does work but not so well as it was designed for a differently structured organisation, something that wasn't considered during procurement


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## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

People use language because they are trying to direct their joint attention and joint intention towards a collaborative goal. Indeed, the very process of using language is a collaborative act, requiring both participants to take roles that move back and forth between them, with clarifications sought and offered in order to jointly arrive at a common understanding. Language is also inherently metaphorical, requiring us to draw upon common experiences, beliefs and ideas to describe and then understand novel concepts.

As such, when new phrases have become commonplace, rather than have a reactionary impulse of hating new things, it is probably better to be impressed at how marvellous human beings are at naturally adopting and adapting this powerful cultural tool. And the fact that new phrases have spread and taken root implies that there is something pretty powerful underlying the imagery they evoke, and the way they manage to tap into shared experiences in order to provide the correct emotional as well as informative impact on the listener.

For example, “deep dive” is a simple two-word phrase that does a lot more than simply tell you the speaker is going to look at some details. It evokes imagery of a specialist delving into murky waters, going further (and, specifically, “deeper”) than others usually do, with the aim of uncovering literally “hidden” items and bringing them up to the light.  None of this needs to be made explicit — it is implicit in the phrase itself.

I suspect that the negative reaction to the use of such metaphor is less to do with the evolving and imaginative use of language, though. I suspect it is actually a perfectly understandable intuitive dislike of _corporations themselves_ and their power relations. Anything associated with corporate activity thus becomes suspicious and hated.  I can certainly get behind that kind of hate.


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## Santino (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> People use language because they are trying to direct their joint attention and joint intention towards a collaborative goal. Indeed, the very process of using language is a collaborative act, requiring both participants to take roles that move back and forth between them, with clarifications sought and offered in order to jointly arrive at a common understanding. Language is also inherently metaphorical, requiring us to draw upon common experiences, beliefs and ideas to describe and then understand novel concepts.
> 
> As such, when new phrases have become commonplace, rather than have a reactionary impulse of hating new things, it is probably better to be impressed at how marvellous human beings are at naturally adopting and adapting this powerful cultural tool. And the fact that new phrases have spread and taken root implies that there is something pretty powerful underlying the imagery they evoke, and the way they manage to tap into shared experiences in order to provide the correct emotional as well as informative impact on the listener.
> 
> ...


I think it is indeed the power relations that underlie people's resentment to lots of language.


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## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

Santino said:


> I think it is indeed the power relations that underlie people's resentment to lots of language.


And this power effect cuts both ways, of course, with those using particular dialects being viewed as ignorant, or those using street patois condemned as criminal.


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## smmudge (Sep 26, 2022)

All that is still no good reason to use "workshop" as a verb, or "leverage" as a synonym for "use".


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## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

smmudge said:


> All that is still no good reason to use "workshop" as a verb, or "leverage" as a synonym for "use".


It is, actually. It’s _exactly_ a good reason for it.


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 26, 2022)

smmudge said:


> All that is still no good reason to use "workshop" as a verb, or "leverage" as a synonym for "use".


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## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

A very large proportion of the verbs you use on a daily basis didn’t use to be used as verbs. Language is wonderfully flexible that way.


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## seeformiles (Sep 26, 2022)

One of the worst I’ve come across is “Spitballing” - the same as “brainstorming”. I was corrected by a “course facilitator” for using the latter as it’s somehow offensive - although I’m not sure to whom, how or why.

“Pump Priming” - something to do with preparing to disseminate you idea to others. A bar tending/cellar working term used by people who likely have never worked in a pub.

“Owning my truth” - wtf?


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## Miss-Shelf (Sep 26, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Where I work they changed an important system that worked and people were happy using to one that didn't work and no one liked. And rather than give people proper training they 'cascaded' it through managers to staff. Three months later the senior managers declared victory and had a drinks reception for themselves to celebrate. A year after introduction a colleague told me her team still didn't use the new system because no one understood it. Several years on it does work but not so well as it was designed for a differently structured organisation, something that wasn't considered during procurement


Isn't it mandatory for universities to change important systems that work and replace them with inferior systems that they bought on the cheap (probably from a mate if the VC) that isn't designed for a university? 

Its traditional to do this every September  a week or 2 before the start of term IME


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## Santino (Sep 26, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> View attachment 344455


Ever used such verbs as strike, switch, sleep, stop, outlaw, drink, lure, dress, clothe, divorce or fool?


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## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

Or post


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> People use language because they are trying to direct their joint attention and joint intention towards a collaborative goal. Indeed, the very process of using language is a collaborative act, requiring both participants to take roles that move back and forth between them, with clarifications sought and offered in order to jointly arrive at a common understanding. Language is also inherently metaphorical, requiring us to draw upon common experiences, beliefs and ideas to describe and then understand novel concepts.
> 
> As such, when new phrases have become commonplace, rather than have a reactionary impulse of hating new things, it is probably better to be impressed at how marvellous human beings are at naturally adopting and adapting this powerful cultural tool. And the fact that new phrases have spread and taken root implies that there is something pretty powerful underlying the imagery they evoke, and the way they manage to tap into shared experiences in order to provide the correct emotional as well as informative impact on the listener.
> 
> ...


I don't mind the creative new use of words especially when they emphasises the meaning like deep dive - that is a descriptive metaphor.

 When 'new' language/ jargon isn't understood by everyone in the meeting or the general public it's just an obstacle. 

I was asking in the context of the voluntary sector, which seems to love adopting the use of goobledegook rather than plain language. The principal of building power dynamics applies there too.


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 26, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> One of the worst I’ve come across is “Spitballing” - the same as “brainstorming”.


Spitballing sounds quite disgusting, what does it mean in any other non jargon context? Is it an Americanism?


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 26, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> We used to call them anti-personnel in the olden days, then inhuman resources.


I like personnel at least it sounds personal. Wonder if it could come back into fashion.


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## seeformiles (Sep 26, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Spitballing sounds quite disgusting, what does it mean in any other non jargon context? Is it an Americanism?


I have no idea - and, yes, I thought it sounded pretty vile too.


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## mango5 (Sep 26, 2022)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Isn't it mandatory for universities to change important systems that work and replace them with inferior systems that they bought on the cheap (probably from a mate if the VC) that isn't designed for a university?
> 
> Its traditional to do this every September  a week or 2 before the start of term IME


Thank you for your email. Tranche one of the implementation phase is now complete. Please allow 5 working days for a reply from the interim transition team as the tranche two transition team is onboarding. 


friendofdorothy said:


> I like personnel at least it sounds personal. Wonder if it could come back into fashion.


"Head of People"


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 26, 2022)

mango5 said:


> as the tranche two transition team is onboarding.



_boat happy alert_


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## Skim (Sep 26, 2022)

I’ve subedited tons of business copy over the years and have always, without fail, taken out every single “going forward”. Just doing my bit.


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 26, 2022)

Skim said:


> I’ve subedited tons of business copy over the years and have always, without fail, taken out every single “going forward”. Just doing my bit.


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## Gerry1time (Sep 26, 2022)

I'm fascinated by this sort of stuff, as you see different patterns of it in different places. One place had everyone using the word 'absolutely' all the time, in the oddest places. 'I'm absolutely going for lunch' for example. Everyone also said 'link in with' rather than 'talk to', so you got 'can you link in with Rebecca about that?'. 

Next place had 'keep me honest here' used liberally. So if you were explaining something in a meeting, you'd start the explanation by asking for a person or persons to 'keep you honest here', meaning that you wanted them to say if you were saying something incorrect. Current place has 'if I'm brutally honest' as a very common preface to saying anything that might even slightly disagree with someone else.

The big one for me though is 'strategic'. I ended up studying the field of strategy at uni last time round, and came to realise that it's a hugely varied field where the word strategy can mean many, many different things, some of them directly contradictory / opposite. So anyone who says 'strategic' clearly doesn't know what the word means, as if they did, they'd know that they didn't, and therefore wouldn't use it. It really is the number one bullshit klaxon of our modern age, from 'social media strategist' as a job title, to 'strategic alignment' as a plea for everyone just to sort their shit out.


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## 8ball (Sep 26, 2022)

A380 said:


> Tell other people in different teams about it..
> 
> It is wank.



You mean it doesn’t mean “tell all your competitors to improve the industry and foster a level playing field”?  

I think I may need to recall a few emails..


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## mx wcfc (Sep 26, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> I'm fascinated by this sort of stuff, as you see different patterns of it in different places. .......
> 
> The big one for me though is 'strategic'.


My firm's big idea at the moment is "Rethinking the Region".

Thing is, our marketing people behind this aren't "rethinking" anything.  They are just sending online surveys to people we want to do business with.

This is our "strategy".

edited to correct typo


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## 8ball (Sep 26, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> I have no idea - and, yes, I thought it sounded pretty vile too.



Oops - I use that one. 

Yes, it’s an American description of a rather disgusting primary school practice.

I use it for “extremely informal design meeting”.


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## mx wcfc (Sep 26, 2022)

Oh, and "lunch and learn".

We've been having "technical lunches" for years. Lunchtime technical sessions, with a lunch laid on as compensation.  I always told my team to get out and stretch their legs/get some fresh air afterwards any way.  Now it's "lunch and learn"

To me " lunch and learn" just sounds primary school.


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## 8ball (Sep 26, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Oh, and "lunch and learn".
> 
> We've been having "technical lunches" for years. Lunchtime technical sessions, with a lunch laid on as compensation.  I always told my team to get out and stretch their legs/get some fresh air afterwards any way.  Now it's "lunch and learn"
> 
> To me " lunch and learn" just sounds primary school.



There was no bloody learning going on at lunchtime at my primary school.


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## mx wcfc (Sep 26, 2022)

8ball said:


> There was no bloody learning going on at lunchtime at my primary school.


This is probably somewhere I shouldn't go, but did you not play "kiss chase"?  Christ the arguments at break time about whether we were going to play football, or "kiss chase"..........


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## Sue (Sep 26, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Oh, and "lunch and learn".
> 
> We've been having "technical lunches" for years. Lunchtime technical sessions, with a lunch laid on as compensation.  I always told my team to get out and stretch their legs/get some fresh air afterwards any way.  Now it's "lunch and learn"
> 
> To me " lunch and learn" just sounds primary school.


I take your 'lunch and learn' and raise you 'brown bag session' where you spend your lunchtime in a training type thing but provide your own lunch which you end up not eating as no-one else is and you don't want to look weird.


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## 8ball (Sep 26, 2022)

Sue said:


> I take your 'lunch and learn' and raise you 'brown bag session' where you spend your lunchtime in a training type thing but provide your own lunch which you end up not eating as no-one else is and you don't want to look weird.



“Brown bag” session to me implies a discreetly but unconvincingly hidden bottle of Buckfast as a lunchtime lubricant.


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## 8ball (Sep 26, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> This is probably somewhere I shouldn't go, but did you not play "kiss chase"?  Christ the arguments at break time about whether we were going to play football, or "kiss chase"..........



Dunno.  I didn’t go to an all boys’ school.


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 26, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Spitballing sounds quite disgusting, what does it mean in any other non jargon context? Is it an Americanism?





seeformiles said:


> I have no idea - and, yes, I thought it sounded pretty vile too.





8ball said:


> Yes, it’s an American description of a rather disgusting primary school practice.



or (again american) a form of ball tampering on the part of the pitching side in baseball.



mx wcfc said:


> Oh, and "lunch and learn".





Sue said:


> I take your 'lunch and learn' and raise you 'brown bag session' where you spend your lunchtime in a training type thing but provide your own lunch which you end up not eating as no-one else is and you don't want to look weird.



and with the expectation that you do this in the unpaid bit of your lunch break?


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## 8ball (Sep 26, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> and with the expectation that you do this in the unpaid bit of your lunch break?



They can expect whatever they want to expect.


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## Sue (Sep 26, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> and with the expectation that you do this in the unpaid bit of your lunch break?


Of course. Taking responsibility for your own personal development. Or something.


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## A380 (Sep 26, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Oh, and "lunch and learn".
> 
> We've been having "technical lunches" for years. Lunchtime technical sessions, with a lunch laid on as compensation.  I always told my team to get out and stretch their legs/get some fresh air afterwards any way.  Now it's "lunch and learn"
> 
> To me " lunch and learn" just sounds primary school.



We had lunch and learns in my last place but being HMG’s finest had to take our own fucking lunches…


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## baldrick (Sep 27, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> I'm fascinated by this sort of stuff, as you see different patterns of it in different places. One place had everyone using the word 'absolutely' all the time, in the oddest places. 'I'm absolutely going for lunch' for example. Everyone also said 'link in with' rather than 'talk to', so you got 'can you link in with Rebecca about that?'.
> 
> Next place had 'keep me honest here' used liberally. So if you were explaining something in a meeting, you'd start the explanation by asking for a person or persons to 'keep you honest here', meaning that you wanted them to say if you were saying something incorrect. Current place has 'if I'm brutally honest' as a very common preface to saying anything that might even slightly disagree with someone else.
> 
> The big one for me though is 'strategic'. I ended up studying the field of strategy at uni last time round, and came to realise that it's a hugely varied field where the word strategy can mean many, many different things, some of them directly contradictory / opposite. So anyone who says 'strategic' clearly doesn't know what the word means, as if they did, they'd know that they didn't, and therefore wouldn't use it. It really is the number one bullshit klaxon of our modern age, from 'social media strategist' as a job title, to 'strategic alignment' as a plea for everyone just to sort their shit out.


I added strategic to my job title 😂


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## Poot (Sep 27, 2022)

We have lunch and learns and it's all online, so what you're doing there is providing training during a lunchbreak. See also 'if you take a quick coffee break, why not look at the Company's new material about x, y and z?' 

We need to provide training so that management understand what a break is and where they can shove the Company's new material. Going forward.


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 29, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> ...
> The big one for me though is 'strategic'. I ended up studying the field of strategy at uni last time round, and came to realise that it's a hugely varied field where the word strategy can mean many, many different things, some of them directly contradictory / opposite. So anyone who says 'strategic' clearly doesn't know what the word means, as if they did, they'd know that they didn't, and therefore wouldn't use it. It really is the number one bullshit klaxon of our modern age, from 'social media strategist' as a job title, to 'strategic alignment' as a plea for everyone just to sort their shit out.


Did not know this. I thought Strategy was about having a plan - seeing ahead and anticipating difficulties and that sort of thing - like in a game of chess.  Am I being too simple?


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## Gerry1time (Sep 29, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Did not know this. I thought Strategy was about having a plan - seeing ahead and anticipating difficulties and that sort of thing - like in a game of chess.  Am I being too simple?


Planning is usually something different. Tends to be lower level, committed (although you can commit to either deliverables or outcomes) and (ideally) shorter term, with the inputs to it being more specific / localised to the things being achieved too. Strategy tends to be longer term, usually more outcome based, with much broader inputs. In a very loose sense, you could plan to deliver thing x, but your strategy would more likely be to achieve broad outcome Y. You might even create a plan (or series of interlinking plans) to achieve your strategy / strategic goals.

Strategy can vary in lots of ways though. As one example, you have someone like Porter and his five forces, which makes the practice of strategy creation more process based and methodical, whilst on the other end Mintzberg sees strategy as more of an emergent phenomenon with more sensing and responding (see also Dave Snowden's Cynefin framework, which is very much flavour of the day for some Linkedin folks).

Basically, it's a huge field, and no part of the field is right or wrong as such, but because it's such a huge field, using a single word to represent it often leads to misalingment around what is meant by the word strategy in a specific context.


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## bmd (Sep 29, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Also the trend for renaming senior hr managers as people officers



Fuck off mate, you've made that up!


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## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

bmd said:


> Fuck off mate, you've made that up!


By no means








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## bmd (Sep 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I suspect that the negative reaction to the use of such metaphor is less to do with the evolving and imaginative use of language, though. I suspect it is actually a perfectly understandable intuitive dislike of _corporations themselves_ and their power relations. Anything associated with corporate activity thus becomes suspicious and hated.  I can certainly get behind that kind of hate.


Plus they're used by people who believe they are polishing their colleagues' perception of them.


seeformiles said:


> One of the worst I’ve come across is “Spitballing” - the same as “brainstorming”. I was corrected by a “course facilitator” for using the latter as it’s somehow offensive - although I’m not sure to whom, how or why.
> 
> “Pump Priming” - something to do with preparing to disseminate you idea to others. A bar tending/cellar working term used by people who likely have never worked in a pub.
> 
> “Owning my truth” - wtf?


Owning my truth aka making shit up.

Also, Gerry1time , I'm nicking bullshit klaxon.


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2022)

8ball said:


> There was no bloody learning going on at lunchtime at my primary school.



Fun fact: there are now secondary schools where every minute of the day, including lunch breaks, is 'structured time' ie the kids are told where to sit and with whom even at lunch, and they have to do work while they eat. 

Presumably there's a deputy head stood outside the bogs all day with a stopwatch and a clipboard.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Fun fact: there are now secondary schools where every minute of the day, including lunch breaks, is 'structured time' ie the kids are told where to sit and with whom even at lunch, and they have to do work while they eat.
> 
> Presumably there's a deputy head stood outside the bogs all day with a stopwatch and a clipboard.


Time and motions


----------



## bmd (Sep 29, 2022)

Sue said:


> I take your 'lunch and learn' and raise you 'brown bag session' where you spend your lunchtime in a training type thing but provide your own lunch which you end up not eating as no-one else is and you don't want to look weird.



I've had many a brown bag session. Followed by a quick go on the pipe and a long old nod.


----------



## seeformiles (Sep 29, 2022)

bmd said:


> I've had many a brown bag session. Followed by a quick go on the pipe and a long old nod.


Are you working in an opium den?


----------



## bmd (Sep 29, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> Are you working in an opium den?


I've often wondered what it was like, doing the night shift in a one. Lots of puke, I expect.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 29, 2022)

At poly I learnt about commercial and industrial decision making units, when people who are also consumers cooperate to make a corporate buying decision, for which they might have a decision making process. So a DMU might have a DMP for a commercial decision. Later I found that individuals still acted as individuals even inside a DMU, and for them to swing towards your product or service at least one person in the DMU had to be in line for significant positive kudos if the project went ahead. So while there are DMU and they may have a DMP in the last analysis they act as individual consumers. Further than that, they probably don't really have a suitable DMP especially if they haven't bought anything like your service before but expect they will somehow muddle though, hopefully for you with your rather than a competitor's guidance as to what the DMP should be in this case.


----------



## keybored (Sep 29, 2022)

_onboarding_


----------



## weltweit (Sep 29, 2022)

keybored said:


> _onboarding_


Onshoring


----------



## 8ball (Sep 29, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Fun fact: there are now secondary schools where every minute of the day, including lunch breaks, is 'structured time' ie the kids are told where to sit and with whom even at lunch, and they have to do work while they eat.
> 
> Presumably there's a deputy head stood outside the bogs all day with a stopwatch and a clipboard.



That doesn’t sound healthy on several levels.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2022)

8ball said:


> That doesn’t sound healthy on several levels.



But they get a 0.7% bump in the exam results of the kids who survive.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 1, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> Planning is usually something different. Tends to be lower level, committed (although you can commit to either deliverables or outcomes) and (ideally) shorter term, with the inputs to it being more specific / localised to the things being achieved too. Strategy tends to be longer term, usually more outcome based, with much broader inputs. In a very loose sense, you could plan to deliver thing x, but your strategy would more likely be to achieve broad outcome Y. You might even create a plan (or series of interlinking plans) to achieve your strategy / strategic goals.
> 
> Strategy can vary in lots of ways though. As one example, you have someone like Porter and his five forces, which makes the practice of strategy creation more process based and methodical, whilst on the other end Mintzberg sees strategy as more of an emergent phenomenon with more sensing and responding (see also Dave Snowden's Cynefin framework, which is very much flavour of the day for some Linkedin folks).
> 
> Basically, it's a huge field, and no part of the field is right or wrong as such, but because it's such a huge field, using a single word to represent it often leads to misalingment around what is meant by the word strategy in a specific context.


So much wanky work talk in that. Sort of bs you spout to justify your salary. How are you at chess?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 1, 2022)

keybored said:


> _onboarding_



⛵ 🙂


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> So much wanky work talk in that. Sort of bs you spout to justify your salary. How are you at chess?




Ooh, meeow!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ooh, meeow!


Just plain English.  

Gerry1time seemed to be demonstrating exactly what I described in my OP.  The sort of wanky claptrap used to talk down to people who haven't studied the subject at university. This is why I started this thread.

How should one reply if faced with such wanky talk?

And as a women I would appreciate replies that won't get me labeled as catty, a bitch or 'difficult' (as I have actually been called when I questioned the morallity of a fellow trustees proposed procedure)


----------



## kabbes (Oct 1, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Just plain English.
> 
> Gerry1time seemed to be demonstrating exactly what I described in my OP.  The sort of wanky claptrap used to talk down to people who haven't studied the subject at university. This is why I started this thread.


I guess the first thing to ask is if you accept the idea that there could be an academic discipline associated with business development?  Is this something that can be studied and different strains of thought identified and analysed?


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I guess the first thing to ask is if you accept the idea that there could be an academic discipline associated with business development?


Does your BDM have a USP and is this integrated with your CRM and is your CRM integrated with your MRPII system or do you prefer a more hands on (less computerised) JIT system through the business?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> or do you prefer a more hands on (less computerised) JIT system through the business?



or is it a JTFL system?


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> or is it a JTFL system?


Just too Fing late ? yes most systems can achieve that  

I like JIT, I studied it, most UK implementations are less than Toyota for example.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Oct 1, 2022)

<RANT>
The use the adjective creative as a noun fucks me off big time. In my company the "creatives" demean the rest of us that create the broadcasting systems the usey to be creative by using it in sense that only "creatives" are creative. They are mostly unaware of how that word appears to the rest of us. Fuck some of these people can't even turn their own TV on to watch their creations. Grrrrrr
<END>


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 1, 2022)

19sixtysix said:


> <RANT>
> The use the adjective creative as a noun fucks me off big time. In my company the "creatives" demean the rest of us that create the broadcasting systems the usey to be creative by using it in sense that only "creatives" are creative. They are mostly unaware of how that word appears to the rest of us. Fuck some of these people can't even turn their own TV on to watch their creations. Grrrrrr
> <END>


If they were really creative they'd use a better word to describe themselves. Scum, wankers and fuckwits perhaps


----------



## alex_ (Oct 1, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Just plain English.
> 
> Gerry1time seemed to be demonstrating exactly what I described in my OP.  The sort of wanky claptrap used to talk down to people who haven't studied the subject at university. This is why I started this thread.
> 
> ...



This bullshit definitely isn’t taught at university !


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Just plain English.
> 
> Gerry1time seemed to be demonstrating exactly what I described in my OP.  The sort of wanky claptrap used to talk down to people who haven't studied the subject at university. This is why I started this thread.
> 
> ...



The post you reacted to was a bit verbose and jargonny imo, and I didn’t have a problem with your response either (though, coming back to it, “sort of bs you use to justify your salary” was a little unkind). 

Should be easy enough to search every time I have given the ‘Meeow!’ response on urban - you’ll find most are at men (as per our demographics) and no one, male or female, has expressed offence before.

Also, I think most would agree it _was_ a catty remark - I was just expressing appreciation.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

19sixtysix said:


> <RANT>
> The use the adjective creative as a noun fucks me off big time. In my company the "creatives" demean the rest of us that create the broadcasting systems the usey to be creative by using it in sense that only "creatives" are creative. They are mostly unaware of how that word appears to the rest of us. Fuck some of these people can't even turn their own TV on to watch their creations. Grrrrrr
> <END>



When I refer to the rest of the staff as “productives”, the creatives don’t like it for some reason.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Just too Fing late ? yes most systems can achieve that
> 
> I like JIT, I studied it, most UK implementations are less than Toyota for example.



I always point out to clients that there is a hair’s difference between “just in time” and “just too late”.


----------



## Santino (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> It was a bit overly verbose and jargonny, and I didn’t have a problem with your response either (though, coming back to it, “sort of bs you use to justify your salary was a little unkind).
> 
> Should be easy enough to search every time I have given the ‘Meeow!’ response on urban - you’ll find most are at men (as per our demographics) and no one, male or female, has expressed offence before.
> 
> Also, I think most would agree it _was_ a catty remark - I was just expressing appreciation.


A gendered insult is still a gendered insult, whether or not you also use it against men.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> Should be easy enough to search every time I have given the ‘Meeow!’ response on urban



#everydayspeciesism


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> #everydayspeciesism



I apologise unreservedly for any offense caused and would like to point out that many of my best friends are cats.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

Santino said:


> A gendered insult is still a gendered insult, whether or not you also use it against men.



Oddly, I don’t see you pop up every time a c-bomb is dropped on this site.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oddly, I don’t see you pop up every time a c-bomb is dropped on this site.


he's very happy to use that gendered insult


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 1, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> So much wanky work talk in that. Sort of bs you spout to justify your salary. How are you at chess?


Apologies, I was genuinely only trying to be helpful, and didn’t expect criticism as a result. I’d explain why what I wrote wasn’t the same as what I’d consider to be wanky work talk, but I fear I’d offend again. Have put you on ignore to avoid such risk from now on.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> I always point out to clients that there is a hair’s difference between “just in time” and “just too late”.


Indeed but JIT is much more than that, Kanban for example are genius, and zero defects is a concept many companies would benefit by adopting.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Indeed but JIT is much more than that, Kanban for example are genius, and zero defects is a concept many companies would benefit by adopting.



Oh, we have these “Kanban boards” in work.  Except they don’t work especially.  I expect as with many things that my company’s implementation of them has been especially shite.

We’ve also done the “hide the defects” concept.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh, we have these “Kanban boards” in work.  Except they don’t work especially.  I expect as with many things that my company’s implementation of them has been especially shite.


Have you been reducing their size while pressuring your suppliers to deliver smaller lots with zero defects? Back when I was looking at it the companies I spoke to had experienced massive reductions in WIP as a result.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

JIT learning is a bit academic and thus not for everyone, I really enjoyed studying it and speaking to practicing companies, but not everyone especially those in a job could afford the time.

It needs a fiction book like The Goal, about OPT which was a good read as well as eductional.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Have you been reducing their size while pressuring your suppliers to deliver smaller lots with zero defects? Back when I was looking at it the companies I spoke to had experienced massive reductions in WIP as a result.



I think it’s some indication of my company’s choice and adoption of appropriate techniques that I didn’t understand a word of that.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> I think it’s some indication of my company’s choice and adoption of appropriate techniques that I didn’t understand a word of that.


Oh, apologies


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Oh, apologies



They just love to grab anything involving buzzwords, then find it doesn’t fit what we do, then make a half-assed hash of it.

Apparently the one exception is Agile, which they say works pretty well, but I’m sceptical there too.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> They just love to grab anything involving buzzwords, then find it doesn’t fit what we do, then make a half-assed hash of it.
> 
> Apparently the one exception is Agile, which they say works pretty well, but I’m sceptical there too.


I don't know anything about agile. What does it involve?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I don't know anything about agile. What does it involve?



Programmers and … backflips maybe?


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

I asked about agile because a lot of so-called manufacturing philosophies contain a lot that they have taken from things like JIT. OPT for example out of Israel has a lot of JIT like components. 

And JIT itself was primarily developed by Toyota and is best suited to a manufacturing environment like that of Toyota's mass production. If you have more of a batching environment, you need to tweak it a bit. to get the best results


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I asked about agile because a lot of so-called manufacturing philosophies contain a lot that they have taken from things like JIT. OPT for example out of Israel has a lot of JIT like components.
> 
> And JIT itself was primarily developed by Toyota and is best suited to a manufacturing environment like that of Toyota's mass production. If you have more of a batching environment, you need to tweak it a bit. to get the best results



Yeah, I tried to explain at the time that these ideas weren’t ideal for a company where every item is bespoke.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

The stock and Work-In-Progress (WIP) reduction aspect of JIT is sort of like your own bank account situation if you are paid weekly or monthly. 

Assume your pay is £1k pcm, if you are paid monthly and assuming you spend all your money then your average balance will be £500. However if you are paid weekly you will be paid £250pw and your average balance will be £125. 

And so it is with WIP, if you get monthly deliveries, you need 4 times as much working capital than if you get weekly deliveries.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> The stock and Work-In-Progress (WIP) reduction aspect of JIT is sort of like your own bank account situation if you are paid weekly or monthly.
> 
> Assume your pay is £1k pcm, if you are paid monthly and assuming you spend all your money then your average balance will be £500. However if you are paid weekly you will be paid £250pw and your average balance will be £125.
> 
> And so it is with WIP, if you get monthly deliveries, you need 4 times as much working capital than if you get weekly deliveries.


I'm reluctant to get involved in this, given I'm a bottle of wine in, but wasn't the fragility of JIT brutally exposed by the jolly old pandemic, resulting in a lot of businesses deciding that a bit of WIP (oo-er missus) might not be such a bad idea?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> I'm reluctant to get involved in this, given I'm a bottle of wine in, but wasn't the fragility of JIT brutally exposed by the jolly old pandemic, resulting in a lot of businesses deciding that a bit of WIP (oo-er missus) might not be such a bad idea?



JIT is great so long as you can move stuff about with very high speed and reliability, and/or demand is predictable.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> I'm reluctant to get involved in this, given I'm a bottle of wine in, but wasn't the fragility of JIT brutally exposed by the jolly old pandemic, resulting in a lot of businesses deciding that a bit of WIP (oo-er missus) might not be such a bad idea?


I don't know about that specific case but I can imagine people might have had the view that stock JIC Just-In-Case was a good idea.  Supermarkets tend to try to operate as JIT as possible and they were properly in trouble with the ferry and tunnel disruptions we had recently.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I don't know about that specific case but I can imagine people might have had the view that stock JIC Just-In-Case was a good idea.  Supermarkets tend to try to operate as JIT as possible and they were properly in trouble with the ferry and tunnel disruptions we had recently.


I wasn't talking about a specific case, but yes, exactly that.  Same with components etc.  No chips coming through from China slowed down everything.  Car builders in Europe may have decided that building up a bit of stock (or possibly even creating more local capacity, might not be such a bad idea.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

I get a bit erasible with my current work where scrap is seen as inevitable and often only discovered at the last minute when all the processes have been completed. Why not just not have scrap, stop the line, correct it for good and then don't have scrap? However, I am not responsible for production there, so I just hum and har and swear under my breath.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> I wasn't talking about a specific case, but yes, exactly that.  Same with components etc.  No chips coming through from China slowed down everything.  Car builders in Europe may have decided that building up a bit of stock (or possibly even creating more local capacity, might not be such a bad idea.


Yes electronic components are a current issue and even the EU government seems keen on getting European production. But wasn't there some blame on the carmakers who didn't place orders when they should have? I don't know the full story.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 1, 2022)

Quantum of investment.

Fuck off, just tell me how much you're investing, don't be a wanker about it.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 1, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Yes electronic components are a current issue and even the EU government seems keen on getting European production. But wasn't there some blame on the carmakers who didn't place orders when they should have? I don't know the full story.


The blame lies with the entire european economy relying so heavily on a repressive regime like China for cheap products, often produced by slave labour, and on the inherently dangerous regime that is Russia for cheap energy.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 1, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> The blame lies with the entire european economy relying so heavily on a repressive regime like China for cheap products, often produced by slave labour, and on the inherently dangerous regime that is Russia for cheap energy.



And relying on America for instructions for on how to run an advanced economy.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 1, 2022)

A scenario which may kybosh the Chinese supply story where European companies are concerned is if or when China makes a move on Taiwan, the immediate response of the USA and Europe is a boycott of Chinese goods (as was the case with Ukraine) and hey presto, European industry and lots of the USA industry grinds to a halt.


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 2, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> Planning is usually something different. Tends to be lower level, committed (although you can commit to either deliverables or outcomes) and (ideally) shorter term, with the inputs to it being more specific / localised to the things being achieved too. Strategy tends to be longer term, usually more outcome based, with much broader inputs. In a very loose sense, you could plan to deliver thing x, but your strategy would more likely be to achieve broad outcome Y. You might even create a plan (or series of interlinking plans) to achieve your strategy / strategic goals.
> 
> Strategy can vary in lots of ways though. As one example, you have someone like Porter and his five forces, which makes the practice of strategy creation more process based and methodical, whilst on the other end Mintzberg sees strategy as more of an emergent phenomenon with more sensing and responding (see also Dave Snowden's Cynefin framework, which is very much flavour of the day for some Linkedin folks).
> 
> Basically, it's a huge field, and no part of the field is right or wrong as such, but because it's such a huge field, using a single word to represent it often leads to misalingment around what is meant by the word strategy in a specific context.



I think you are reading too much into this. Strategy is almost defined (and used in the corporate sector), by what it _isn't:_ its natural antonym, Tactical. Black/White, In/Out, Strategy/Tactical

It just means nothing with a short term time frame. A strategy guy does not get bogged down in operational detail. S/He's Mr/s Big Picture, long term stuff, with solutions that _scale_. No sticking plaster here please.

Of course that has it's own issues of twats thinking its the more cerebrally elevated exercise (as its generally more lucrative/senior), when, IME, actually executing is often a much scarcer skill. So you fall unto the trap of wannabe future captains of industry boldly/proudly telling you they "don't do detail" (when their plans or ideas fail), but that is another story....

I must admit this recurring thread is something I slightly feel I'm at odds with the majority view of AMAB edgelordery  - in my head I've got an essay for the 'unpopular opinions' thread - but for now I've come in from the pub and I'll give it a go now...

Wanky speak is wank, for sure
Unspecific labelling (Brown Bag) is a genuine hidden curse* - that's from someone working in a tech environment that is, well, by a lot of factors a ridiculously great place to work but has tonnes of these difficult supposed shorthand phrases 
The cliche'd classics of blue-sky-thinking etc that seem to kick off this ire haven't been used in 30 years unironically (can you imagine OG David Brent using it? Of course not, even TheOffice years ago it would have never made it to script such is it's cliched-ness)...Even though (I'd argue) it's not a bad phrase...
I guess the verbification of some words is a bit silly, but not something that really irks me that much....

...But my main point is that I actually love some of the shorthand abstract phrases used to depict business scenarios...I see it as almost a creative avenue. And I think they are underestimated.

They are unremittingly awful to say out loud and admit to actually liking. But... things like (and I am struggling to think of examples but here I go...)

Deep dive
Back at the ranch
Shit the bed***
Dropped the ball***
Strategy 
Boil the Ocean

All of the above have a specific meaning and context - what they mean, (and what they don't).

Using them in my world (industry) I will admit is a mechanism of messaging I AM SO CONFIDENT AND EXPERIENCED IN THIS SCENARIO. With that in mind, I can easily imagine they are over or incorrectly used. I'm a slight outlier in that I rarely work with dickheads that would inappropriately use these, so I'm a bit ignorant, but they are, to me, a *creative avenue*. I love (for want fo a better word) drama in speech, so this scratches that itch) I also have a bit of an fanboy affection with a US podcaster that thrives on this sort of talk (and indeed it's his use of this sort of phraseology that is a big factor in me having such affection)

(For balance, my firm uses terms (for example) Wayfinder, Tribal Knowledge, Enablement that are heinous in their lack of actual literal specificity, bit have a very specific actual meaning, and create exactly the "shit, I can't ask what they mean by this cos I don't want to look stupid" which I, as a not-exactly-young operative had no idea what they actually meant.

Sure they do also work as a "hey I'm part of that club" indicator too. I remember hearing the term 'Markets' to describe/name insurance companies - "I can't insure my boat in this market, so I will take it to other markets" it took me ages to understand/accept it was a preferable term. Now of course, I too, would probably use it (even though those days are behind me)

Anyway, sorry. Drink and Urbing etc


----------



## Sue (Oct 2, 2022)

This is officially *the* dullest thread on Urban. Good work all round!

(Feel we're missing six sigma, black belt, scrum master, Agile, circling back, quality circle, sidebar, Fibonacci, t shirt kinda thing but can't have it all I guess .)


----------



## 8ball (Oct 2, 2022)

Sue said:


> This is officially *the* dullest thread on Urban. Good work all round!
> 
> (Feel we're missing six sigma, black belt, scrum master, Agile, circling back, quality circle, sidebar, Fibonacci, t shirt kinda thing but can't have it all I guess .)



We’ve done Agile (see #116), I’ll have you know!!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 2, 2022)

Sue said:


> This is officially *the* dullest thread on Urban. Good work all round!


Thank you!  5 pages of dull thanks. 



Sue said:


> (Feel we're missing six sigma, black belt, scrum master, Agile, circling back, quality circle, sidebar, Fibonacci, t shirt kinda thing but can't have it all I guess .)



ok got to ask - what do each of those things mean?   Does circling back mean something more than just going back to something?  Yes Agile was mentioned a while back - but I'm still none the wiser what it means in a work context.

I start a thread about not understanding jargon and people then use loads of jargon...   
Makes me feel like a decrepit old outcast from a the 20thC...


----------



## kabbes (Oct 2, 2022)

There are two completely different sets of “jargon” being conflated in this thread. One is technical jargon related to the technical complexities of a subject. This features specialist words and acronyms/initialisations (like “JIT”). The other is the use of imagery and metaphor, which can be used to try to bring energy and colour to a discussion, but equally can be divisive, used to separate the culturally affiliated from the outsider. 

Both types of jargon are worth discussing, including how they can both leave people feeling frozen out from discussions, but I would contend that they are very different things used in different contexts and for different purposes.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Oct 2, 2022)

oryx said:


> I seem to remember they were called 'employee engagement' something or others in my last place of work.
> 
> I've tried, with some success, to blank all that sort of thing from my memory.


"Employee Experience"?

I know of at least 3 Councils who changed the name of their HR department to this for a while and then changed it back to HR after confusion and irritation from all sides


----------



## 8ball (Oct 2, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Thank you!  5 pages of dull thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ok got to ask - what do each of those things mean?



“I wish I hadn’t opened Pandora’s box…” 

…

“…wonder what else is in there…”


----------



## 8ball (Oct 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> There are two completely different sets of “jargon” being conflated in this thread. One is technical jargon related to the technical complexities of a subject. This features specialist words and acronyms/initialisations (like “JIT”). The other is the use of imagery and metaphor, which can be used to try to bring energy and colour to a discussion, but equally can be divisive, used to separate the culturally affiliated from the outsider.
> 
> Both types of jargon are worth discussing, including how they can both leave people feeling frozen out from discussions, but I would contend that they are very different things used in different contexts and for different purposes.



I agree totally and for brevity’s sake I propose we call these categories “hard bollocks” and “soft bollocks” respectively.


----------



## Santino (Oct 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> The other is the use of imagery and metaphor, which can be used to try to bring energy and colour to a discussion, but equally can be divisive, used to separate the culturally affiliated from the outsider.


I would also say that this kind of usage can also flatten out meaning and be used as a way of avoiding really thinking about what's being said.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 2, 2022)

Santino said:


> I would also say that this kind of usage can also flatten out meaning and be used as a way of avoiding really thinking about what's being said.



Let’s park that for now while we focus on our key deliverables…


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 2, 2022)

_Stakeholders_
SMART targets
I've worked in or been in education for nigh on 15 years now, and it's become increasingly obvious how not only business but the _language_ of business has made significant inroads into the sector. And I don't like it


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 2, 2022)

I did once ask someone if there was a vegetarian alternative to a stakeholder meeting.

He didn't get it...


----------



## Sue (Oct 2, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Thank you!  5 pages of dull thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Feels too much like being at work for a Sunday. Maybe later if I've got the energy...


----------



## Sue (Oct 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> There are two completely different sets of “jargon” being conflated in this thread. One is technical jargon related to the technical complexities of a subject. This features specialist words and acronyms/initialisations (like “JIT”). The other is the use of imagery and metaphor, which can be used to try to bring energy and colour to a discussion, but equally can be divisive, used to separate the culturally affiliated from the outsider.
> 
> Both types of jargon are worth discussing, including how they can both leave people feeling frozen out from discussions, but I would contend that they are very different things used in different contexts and for different purposes.


Yeah but what may start as a specific technical term can often end up being used by non-technical management types to mean something completely different/nothing at all...


----------



## Sue (Oct 2, 2022)

8ball said:


> Let’s park that for now while we focus on our key deliverables…


Let's take it offline.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 2, 2022)

Sue said:


> Yeah but what may start as a specific technical term can often end up being used by non-technical management types to mean something completely different/nothing at all...



Such as “master” and “slave”.
Ok, if anachronistic and uncomfortable, when talking about server setups.

Less good when used by HR.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 2, 2022)

Sue said:


> Let's take it offline.


RAGE


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 2, 2022)

Having started a new job a few months ago, I am now immersed in a sea of unfamiliar acronyms and in a massive university where the different departments don't talk to each other, it can be very overwhelming at times not to mention difficult to find out what they mean.

I recognise the game but all the pieces have different names, basically.

friendofdorothy a lot of the things you mentioned are used in software and quality control, these things move in and out of favour - six sigma was arguably bigger a while back, Agile is currently all the rage but most people don't resource it properly to do it right, Just In Time and kanban are Japanese manufacturing methodologies that have been around since the 80s. Most manufacturing operations work along those lines now which is why any interruption or disruption to the supply chain has huge knock on effects to us as consumers (there's currently a problem with component and chips for electrical products, for example)..


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 2, 2022)

For me there are only two types of jobs

Work (doing things)
Work about work (talking about other people doing things) 

The second one seems to pay more but when I’ve done it I’ve found it less fulfilling and too far out of my comfort zone so I stick to the first one now


----------



## 8ball (Oct 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> For me there are only two types of jobs
> 
> Work (doing things)
> Work about work (talking about other people doing things)
> ...



I’m not sure they break down like that, though I agree where it is clearly in the second category it seems to pay more.


----------



## oryx (Oct 2, 2022)

Guineveretoo said:


> "Employee Experience"?
> 
> I know of at least 3 Councils who changed the name of their HR department to this for a while and then changed it back to HR after confusion and irritation from all sides


Ha, I don't think it was that one at my old place, though! 'Experience' reminds me of the term 'customer experience' which seems to have replaced 'customer services' in many places.

I think my ex-employer had a split between 'employee engagement' (or was it 'relations') and one for the employer side which did the recruitment stuff.


----------



## story (Oct 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> For me there are only two types of jobs
> 
> Work (doing things)
> Work about work (talking about other people doing things)
> ...



You’re talking about Bullshit Jobs. Which is also a kind of jargon but a variety that is easy to understand.

Bullshit Jobs are largely an artefact of late stage capitalism, and the wanky work speak that the OP describes is the working jargon of the Bullshit Job.









						Bullshit jobs: why they exist and why you might have one
					

And why this professor thinks we need a revolution.




					www.vox.com
				






> Bullshit jobs are jobs which even the person doing the job can’t really justify the existence of, but they have to pretend that there’s some reason for it to exist. That’s the bullshit element. A lot of people confuse bullshit jobs and shit jobs, but they’re not the same thing.
> 
> Bad jobs are bad because they’re hard or they have terrible conditions or the pay sucks, but often these jobs are very useful. In fact, in our society, often the more useful the work is, the less they pay you. Whereas bullshit jobs are often highly respected and pay well but are completely pointless, and the people doing them know this.












						Bullshit Jobs - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 3, 2022)

I think I mean more the difference between workers and managers, as I’m not sure the bullshit jobs hypothesis covers exactly what I mean - in my own mind anyway.


----------



## xenon (Oct 3, 2022)

Customer Experience = complaints dept.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 4, 2022)

I'm hearing a lot of talk about TOC. Theory of change. Is this the new Investers in people/Social Value/Best practice?


----------



## Sue (Oct 4, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> I'm hearing a lot of talk about TOC. Theory of change. Is this the new Investers in people/Social Value/Best practice?


Table of Contents 🤷‍♀️


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 4, 2022)

Sue said:


> Table of Contents 🤷‍♀️


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 4, 2022)

I know a TOC as a train operating company but there we are


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 4, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I know a TOC as a train operating company but there we are


It's teh new snake oil.


----------



## seeformiles (Oct 5, 2022)

The humble tea break has been reborn as a “Networking Opportunity” ☹️


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 5, 2022)

I realise I appreciate when some someone is an expert in something and then uses language to describe that.  I'm fed up with people using language to bs and make themselves sound more knowledgeable than they actually are.


----------



## oryx (Oct 5, 2022)

There is an issue with using acronyms too, as friedaweed 's post above has mentioned.

I mean theories, new ideas, labelling processes with a name can all be good things, but often aren't. Until things enter the mainstream, loads of people, whether in workplace settings or volunteering etc., are not necessarily going to know about these. 

Think it might have already been said, friendofdorothy but to refer back to your opening post, I bet you're not the only one wondering what these bullshit terms/acronyms mean, but are the only one not afraid to ask.

My last job was working with social housing tenants who were refreshingly, and admirably, very upfront in calling out bullshit and asked for jargon busters. Muggins here often got the job of writing jargon busters and often had to ask what the acronyms were! There is a certain types of person who has their head so far up their arse that they can't see that these things might faze ordinary people who live in the real world aren't spending all their time working in a particular field.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 5, 2022)

Acronyms etc are useful as a shortcut between people who know the subject, when spelling it out could make a dull subject even duller. Almost every walk of life has acronyms of one sort or another, so I think it is unfair to expect people to just can them, I found upthread that I could have a conversation on here about J-I-T Just in time, despite that it is a quite specialised subject.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 5, 2022)

Agree that lots of people use big words they don’t understand the meaning of in an attempt to make themselves look more photosynthesis.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 6, 2022)

8ball said:


> Agree that lots of people use big words they don’t understand the meaning of in an attempt to make themselves look more photosynthesis.


I suspect they are just green...


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 7, 2022)

Kris had an email this afternoon that ended with LMK, which after a bit of head scratching we figured out was 'let me know'. 

She replied, and the same dickhead just sent back HAGWE.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> She replied, and the same dickhead just sent back HAGWE.


Have a great week end.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 7, 2022)

Someone asked me what WFH meant in my call notes for work. 

Working from home I replied


----------



## 8ball (Oct 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Kris had an email this afternoon that ended with LMK, which after a bit of head scratching we figured out was 'let me know'.
> 
> She replied, and the same dickhead just sent back HAGWE.



People at my place occasionally use such abbreviations in IM’s, but not seen it in emails.

First time I’ve seen HAGWE.


----------



## Skim (Oct 7, 2022)

HAGWE is just rude.

BW,
Skim


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

Skim said:


> HAGWE is just rude.
> 
> BW,
> Skim


Yeah, I've had emails ending BW.  and KR

Best Wishes so best, and kind regards so kind you couldn't even be bothered to type them in full.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Acronyms etc are useful as a shortcut between people who know the subject, when spelling it out could make a dull subject even duller. Almost every walk of life has acronyms of one sort or another, so I think it is unfair to expect people to just can them, I found upthread that I could have a conversation on here about J-I-T Just in time, despite that it is a quite specialised subject.


It's when the whole organisation is obsessed with them things go wrong.  We had an internal "get to know eachother thing".  I asked someone what they did.  "I'm a TSM in DSG" they replied.  Fucks sake, what do you do when people are so embedded in their internal speak that they can't relate to anyone else.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> "I'm a TSM in DSG" they replied.



to which you said "you sound a right DH" ?


----------



## Ming (Oct 7, 2022)

‘Like a boss’…PICK YOURSELF UP OFF YOUR KNEES YOU SNIVELING CUR!!! KILL YOUR BOSS!!!!!

’Well speaking as a member of the leadership team’….YOU COULDN”T LEAD DUCKLINGS!!!!!

’**** learning journey’ (fuck off)


----------



## weltweit (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> It's when the whole organisation is obsessed with them things go wrong.  We had an internal "get to know eachother thing".  I asked someone what they did.  "I'm a TSM in DSG" they replied.  Fucks sake, what do you do when people are so embedded in their internal speak that they can't relate to anyone else.


"I'm a TSM in DSG" = I am very happy for you, now what is it that you do?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 7, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'm involved in various charities as a volunteer and as trustee, and the staff and trustees often seem to talk a different language than plain English.  I suppose it is academic speak, management speak or perhaps general business speak from whatever field they've worked in.
> 
> I'm forever asking "what does that mean?" I often feel I'm the only one brave enough to ask.
> 
> ...


Management speak. It's not academic.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

weltweit said:


> "I'm a TSM in DSG" = I am very happy for you, now what is it that you do?


Trouble is, they are so serious about it that they wouldn't appreciate that.  

I am much older than most of these colleagues - I think they'd think I was just being a rude, old git.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 7, 2022)

We're getting a tiny wave of people trying this in Orkney. The reaction to it amongst the locals is hilarious. Someone actually talked about "game changers" in the context of wheely bins.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> to which you said "you sound a right DH" ?


As I just said to weltweit, it is just the way things are in my organisation,  It wouoldn't be funny.  People are delighted and proud of their three letter acronyms.  I'm the wanker.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Trouble is, they are so serious about it that they wouldn't appreciate that.


I think it is worth asking though. 


mx wcfc said:


> I am much older than most of these colleagues - I think they'd think I was just being a rude, old git.


It is possible to ask without being rude though? isn't it?


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I think it is worth asking though.
> 
> It is possible to ask without being rude though? isn't it?


Yeah, probably, but why do they start on this line?  I don't.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 7, 2022)

Have we had Dovetail yet


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

It's a bit like people on TV quiz shows being asked what they do and replying "I'm an account manager".  I'm sure it's an important job, but they aren't telling anyone anything.  They are focussed on their rank


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Have we had Dovetail yet


Ooooh no.  Tell me about Dovetail?


----------



## weltweit (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Yeah, probably, but why do they start on this line?  I don't.


They probably just expect you will know what they meant, and they saved loads of words by using the abbreviations. 

If you indicate that you are not firmly "of their world" they will have to speak English if they want to continue the conversation.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

I'm just back from a wanky work thing, and can't actually remember most of it.  When they send the slides round I will post it all here.

I do remember that my employer now has a "Strat House" though. Nope, not somewhere to keep your guitar, it's a powerpoint slide, formed in the shape of a house.  With windows and a door you can look into, each with a unique insight into our strategy.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Ooooh no.  Tell me about Dovetail?


The first time I encountered it was more in a council context during covid, when they wanted to "dovetail" into groups that were doing what they should be seen to be doing. They were also big on these groups not "duplicating efforts" that they were basically planning to duplicate after the event. I heard the latter phrase a hundred times from various authorities lol


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> I do remember that my employer now has a "Strat House" though. Nope, not somewhere to keep your guitar, it's a powerpoint slide, formed in the shape of a house. With windows and a door you can look into, each with a unique insight into our strategy.



that sounds a right LOB


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

sorry that went wrong.


HoratioCuthbert said:


> The first time I encountered it was more in a council context during covid, when they wanted to "dovetail" into groups that were doing what they should be seen to be doing. They were also big on these groups not "duplicating efforts" that they were basically planning to duplicate after the event. I heard the latter phrase a hundred times from various authorities lol


Sounds a bit like not "reinventing the wheel" which was a buzz phrase for a long time.


----------



## xenon (Oct 7, 2022)

Skim said:


> HAGWE is just rude.
> 
> BW,
> Skim



It's wrong as well, weekend is one word.


----------



## xenon (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> As I just said to weltweit, it is just the way things are in my organisation,  It wouoldn't be funny.  People are delighted and proud of their three letter acronyms.  I'm the wanker.


BTW what or who are WCFC?


----------



## weltweit (Oct 7, 2022)

Powerpoint has a lot to answer to. 

I recall hours being spent on "the company slideshow" (pre powerpoint even) which probably only tested the receiver's ability not to fall asleep. It was unmitigated dullness. However, it seemed at that time to be expected, the battle of the slideshows, because back then you could be sure if you had one your target clients had one also. 

I now work for a much smaller company, we don't even have formal meetings, let alone monthly reports, I don't miss either


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

I get really bad "imposter syndrome"  at the sort of wanky work events I'm just back from.  Some people love it.  I just disengage and ignore it all.  

I think the worst was when I was in a group of maybe 10 people sat round a table.  I wasn't paying attention, till I suddenly realised they were going round the table taking it in turns to say something,  and I was next.  Best I could come out with was "I think it's really important to look like you are interested, _even when you are not_"

I was quite proud of that.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 7, 2022)

xenon said:


> BTW what or who are WCFC?


Winchester City Football Club.  

(I found this website when WCFC played Dulwich Hamlet in a cup game, a few years ago.  When you post on another club's board, it is polite to show your colours).  

(I need a better user name, now I'm resident here)


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 7, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Winchester City Football Club.
> 
> (I found this website when WCFC played Dulwich Hamlet in a cup game, a few years ago.  When you post on another club's board, it is polite to show your colours).
> 
> (I need a better user name, now I'm resident here)


I wrote three guesses and the third was " west Coventry football club" 

Come on West Coventry


----------



## Humberto (Oct 7, 2022)

I'm ed Winchester


----------



## Humberto (Oct 7, 2022)

Applying for jobs too. 'I'm incredibly proud' says one wanky rich screwface to work for B and Q or whatever.


----------



## oryx (Oct 8, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> I do remember that my employer now has a "Strat House" though. Nope, not somewhere to keep your guitar, it's a powerpoint slide, formed in the shape of a house.  With windows and a door you can look into, each with a unique insight into our strategy.




Just made me think of a frat house.


----------



## Ming (Oct 8, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Powerpoint has a lot to answer to.
> 
> I recall hours being spent on "the company slideshow" (pre powerpoint even) which probably only tested the receiver's ability not to fall asleep. It was unmitigated dullness. However, it seemed at that time to be expected, the battle of the slideshows, because back then you could be sure if you had one your target clients had one also.
> 
> I now work for a much smaller company, we don't even have formal meetings, let alone monthly reports, I don't miss either


The 'funny accidental' initial slide that everyone is waiting for is usually quite good.



			Google Image Result for https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/The_Terror_of_War.jpg


----------



## Sue (Oct 8, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> It's a bit like people on TV quiz shows being asked what they do and replying "I'm an account manager".  I'm sure it's an important job, but they aren't telling anyone anything.  They are focussed on their rank



'I'm a consultant.' Me: 'A consultant what?"


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 8, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Management speak. It's not academic.


Some of the people I volunteer with are actually university academics and they say things that are completely incomprehensible and sound very dull. They love research and surveys. They wanted me to encourage my community to complete a survey, but found it hard to tell even me in any sort of plain english what benefit the survey could have. 

I'm not an academic but even I know why there was a really low number of people who actually completed the important survey. It was ridiculously long (took over an hour to do) there was no 'i don't know/don't give a toss' option and there was no reward for completing it.  The results of this 'rigourous' survey were 'statistically significant' apparently.


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 8, 2022)

Once got asked what my vertical was, I said about 6-1, still not sure what they meant


----------



## seeformiles (Oct 8, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Powerpoint has a lot to answer to.
> 
> I recall hours being spent on "the company slideshow" (pre powerpoint even) which probably only tested the receiver's ability not to fall asleep. It was unmitigated dullness. However, it seemed at that time to be expected, the battle of the slideshows, because back then you could be sure if you had one your target clients had one also.
> 
> I now work for a much smaller company, we don't even have formal meetings, let alone monthly reports, I don't miss either


I used to stick a cheesy 1950s swimsuit model slide in the middle of my PowerPoint presentation on “Car Parking Management in the HE sector”. It would test who was awake and allow me to say “I’m terribly sorry. I don’t know how that got in there”


----------



## weltweit (Oct 8, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> It's a bit like people on TV quiz shows being asked what they do and replying "I'm an account manager".  I'm sure it's an important job, but they aren't telling anyone anything.  They are focussed on their rank


I recall some wit sayiing, I am a "country manager" or "European Sales Manager" wow big jobs !!! (not really) there are worse, "global security manager" wow all that yes? EMEA Manager,


----------



## Dystopiary (Oct 8, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> It's a bit like people on TV quiz shows being asked what they do and replying "I'm an account manager".  I'm sure it's an important job, but they aren't telling anyone anything.  They are focussed on their rank


Yeah, they all seem to say crap like "marketing content resource facilitator." It wasn't like that on Bullseye!


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 8, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Some of the people I volunteer with are actually university academics and they say things that are completely incomprehensible and sound very dull. They love research and surveys. They wanted me to encourage my community to complete a survey, but found it hard to tell even me in any sort of plain english what benefit the survey could have.
> 
> I'm not an academic but even I know why there was a really low number of people who actually completed the important survey. It was ridiculously long (took over an hour to do) there was no 'i don't know/don't give a toss' option and there was no reward for completing it.  The results of this 'rigourous' survey were 'statistically significant' apparently.


Yeah I get irritated by "Stakeholders" and "Wicked Problems" but maybe that's for the irrational hate thread ahaha


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 8, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Yeah I get irritated by "Stakeholders" and "Wicked Problems" but maybe that's for the irrational hate thread ahaha


What are wicked problems?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 8, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> What are wicked problems?


Oh fuck don't ask..... They are problems that "can never be said to be solved", affect many different things, blah blah so basically Climate Change is a "Wicked Problem". And the way to solve it is to get all the "Stakeholders" in the same room- the Tories, the economists, the public sector etc- and come up with a "polyrational" solution that gives all these people equal space in the solution and then it's all shiny happy AF. 

I could Google it to refresh my memory to explain  it better but I don't have much soul left and I don't want the last of it to be destroyed in the process.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 8, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Oh fuck don't ask..... They are problems that "can never be said to be solved", affect many different things, blah blah so basically Climate Change is a "Wicked Problem". And the way to solve it is to get all the "Stakeholders" in the same room- the Tories, the economists, the public sector etc- and come up with a "polyrational" solution that gives all these people equal space in the solution and then it's all shiny happy AF.
> 
> I could Google it to refresh my memory to explain  it better but I don't have much soul left and I don't want the last of it to be destroyed in the process.


enough said.  At least I will have a clue when someone says it now.


----------



## newme (Oct 21, 2022)

Touch base, I fucking hate it.


----------



## Sue (Oct 21, 2022)

newme said:


> Touch base, I fucking hate it.


If you reach out, we can touch base, yeah?

We're all about 'fast follow(s)' this week (noun AND verb ftw )


----------



## newme (Oct 21, 2022)

Thankfully I managed to stay away from most wanky work speak for a number of years, mostly cos our entire department was dealing with other people from other departments and you had no time for that shit. Major issue was more meetings that should have been an email. Especially when we had to book a damned room and a team meeting immediately broke all the fire regulations.

Touch base seemed to be something they used when I was in IT, for absolutely everything.
"I'll get the VOIP up on site 34 then touch base to confirm"
"I'm heading to (remote site name), will touch base when completed and on the way with an ETA"
"Not currently at my desk, will touch base when I am able"

Etc, until I gave up and sat eating a 12 inch subway at my desk over lunch until that job somehow went away, despite doing anything I was asked. Including fixing a word issue where typing stopped working when a printer was installed two weeks ago...... they had the font colour set to the same colour as the page. Still insisted it was the printer, after I fixed it. At which point we actually connected the network drops to the printer since it was not on until then.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 21, 2022)

After struggling with making a newsletter email elegant all day - I think I need a relaxing font selection session


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 22, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I think I need a relaxing font selection session



comic sans.

in cat-vomit green.

hope that helps


----------



## tommers (Oct 22, 2022)

Saw my boss on a Thought Leadership Fireside Chat in the week. Looked happy as Larry tbf.


----------



## Sue (Oct 22, 2022)

tommers said:


> Saw my boss on a Thought Leadership Fireside Chat in the week. Looked happy as Larry tbf.


Fucking 'Fireside Chats'. I've never yet seen a fucking fire. 

And Thought Leadership my arse.  

(I get the impression we work in the same field, tommers. Or fields that use the same bullshit terminology anyway.)


----------



## tommers (Oct 22, 2022)

Sue said:


> Fucking 'Fireside Chats'. I've never yet seen a fucking fire.
> 
> And Thought Leadership my arse.
> 
> (I get the impression we work in the same field, tommers. Or fields that use the same bullshit terminology anyway.)


Yes I think so too.  😁


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 22, 2022)

Sue said:


> Fucking 'Fireside Chats'. I've never yet seen a fucking fire.



take some matches next time?


----------



## Sue (Oct 22, 2022)

tommers said:


> Yes I think so too.  😁


It sometimes feels like I'm the only person who hasn't drunk the kool aid so nice to be reminded I'm not alone with my cynical ways.


----------



## Sue (Oct 22, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> take some matches next time?


All done remotely so not really an option...


----------



## tommers (Oct 22, 2022)

Sue said:


> It sometimes feels like I'm the only person who hasn't drunk the kool aid so nice to be reminded I'm not alone with my cynical ways.


Oh god I know. Luckily my manager has known me for years so she knows I hate all that nonsense.  

We both met a really annoying customer a few years ago who described herself as a "success driven professional", that's kept us going for a while. 

CVs are usually the best for this kind of thing.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 22, 2022)

Sue said:


> All done remotely so not really an option...



new teams background image then?


----------



## Sue (Oct 22, 2022)

tommers said:


> Oh god I know. Luckily my manager has known me for years so she knows I hate all that nonsense.
> 
> We both met a really annoying customer a few years ago who described herself as a "success driven professional", that's kept us going for a while.
> 
> CVs are usually the best for this kind of thing.


My current boss is also sound. My last one definitely was not. (I don't think it helped that I'd ask him what he meant when he used bollocks terms and he wouldn't really know. 🤣)

Think it helps if you've been round the block a few times because the kids certainly seem to believe all the bullshit*. They imbibe it with their Huel or something. 🤷‍♀️ 

*Though pretty sure I was reasonably cynical when I was in my 20s or whatever.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 22, 2022)

weltweit said:


> After struggling with making a newsletter email elegant all day - I think I need a relaxing font selection session


Should we ever meet could happily bore you with a jargon filled typography lesson. I have a degree in it.
 But here is the condensed version: as a general rule for a newsletter don't use more than two fonts.   You're welcome.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 22, 2022)

tommers said:


> ...described herself as a "success driven professional"


So not a failure seeking amateur then.


----------



## tommers (Oct 22, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> So not a failure seeking amateur then.


Exactly. 😁


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## farmerbarleymow (Oct 22, 2022)

A380 said:


> 'Socialise this idea'.


Someone used that repeatedly in a meeting I was in this week.


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## newme (Oct 22, 2022)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Someone used that repeatedly in a meeting I was in this week.


This is presumably the benefit of remote working for people who come out with this stuff, no one sabotages the elevator, pushes them down the stairs or inadvertently locks them in a small room with a leaking Nitrogen canister over the weekend.


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## seeformiles (Oct 23, 2022)

I was once on an interview panel and the HR person invited me to a “Power Breakfast” beforehand so we could “get all our ducks in a row”. At said “power breakfast” I deliberately mixed up my wanky workplace expressions (E.g. “Let’s drive it round the block and see who salutes it” and “Let’s run it up the flagpole and see if the wheels fall off” etc.) and no one seemed to notice.


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## farmerbarleymow (Oct 23, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> “Power Breakfast”


 What do you eat at a power breakfast - batteries?


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## Hash4Cash (Oct 23, 2022)

I had, "we need to take a holistic approach." a while back, I hade to look it up as I thought it involved crystals and meditation.

There is a term that is also used a lot, "Dis-similar" which is fine, until people realise there is a perfectly good word: "different" but that is too easy.

And I have actually been invited to a meeting to discuss the agenda points for another meeting.


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 23, 2022)

Hash4Cash said:


> And I have actually been invited to a meeting to discuss the agenda points for another meeting.


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## seeformiles (Oct 23, 2022)

farmerbarleymow said:


> What do you eat at a power breakfast - batteries?


That was the crack I made but it fell upon stony ground


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## alex_ (Oct 23, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> I was once on an interview panel and the HR person invited me to a “Power Breakfast” beforehand so we could “get all our ducks in a row”. At said “power breakfast” I deliberately mixed up my wanky workplace expressions (E.g. “Let’s drive it round the block and see who salutes it” and “Let’s run it up the flagpole and see if the wheels fall off” etc.) and no one seemed to notice.



They were probably taking notes


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## tommers (Oct 24, 2022)

I've just seen somebody say that a team member has "vectored off" the project.

He means they left.


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 24, 2022)

Just heard 'podinar' in advert. Aggh


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## Sue (Oct 24, 2022)

tommers said:


> I've just seen somebody say that a team member has "vectored off" the project.
> 
> He means they left.


I'm so going to use this to impress colleagues who come out with wanky work speak.


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## friendofdorothy (Oct 24, 2022)

Sue said:


> This is officially *the* dullest thread on Urban. Good work all round!


8 pages of dull wanky work speak, and still going...  thanks everyone!


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It is what it is


What really fucks me off, is people who add "until it isn't", as if they're gifted with some profound insight, rather than just mouthing a banal addendum that anyone sane wouldn't vocalise.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Surprised we've not had leadership yet. Because what they mean isn't actually leadership, the sort of person you'd follow through hell,  but senior management who couldn't lead you to a piss up in a brewery.
> 
> Also the trend for renaming senior hr managers as people officers


Might just as well call the cunts Commisars.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Just plain English.
> 
> Gerry1time seemed to be demonstrating exactly what I described in my OP.  The sort of wanky claptrap used to talk down to people who haven't studied the subject at university. This is why I started this thread.
> 
> ...


I chair a charity. I often sit in with our manager on contractor meetings & tender bids. If someone starts trotting out that sort of shit, I say something along the lines of "forgive me for interrupting you. Please pitch as though I'm a simpleton who doesn't understand business terminology". They usually find a way to drop all the bullshit, & speak plainly.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

alex_ said:


> This bullshit definitely isn’t taught at university !


I dunno. I've read a few MBA syllabuses in my time that mentioned "business discourse"...


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 25, 2022)

ViolentPanda said:


> I dunno. I've read a few MBA syllabuses in my time that mentioned "business discourse"...



or was it an MBS syllabus?


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Quantum of investment.
> 
> Fuck off, just tell me how much you're investing, don't be a wanker about it.


Investors are, too often, a wunch of bankers.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> or was it an MBS syllabus?


Sheikh Muhamad Bin Salman, crown prince of Saudi Arabia? 

I've often referred to MBAs as Masters in Bullshit, but not within the hearing of my friend. She has an MBA from Harvard.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> I think you are reading too much into this. Strategy is almost defined (and used in the corporate sector), by what it _isn't:_ its natural antonym, Tactical. Black/White, In/Out, Strategy/Tactical
> 
> It just means nothing with a short term time frame. A strategy guy does not get bogged down in operational detail. S/He's Mr/s Big Picture, long term stuff, with solutions that _scale_. No sticking plaster here please.


I got an official reprimand once for correcting my lieutenant when he spoke about strategy when he meant tactics. 20 laps of the parade ground in full kit!


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Have we had Dovetail yet


The only people that use "dovetail", are those who never had to cut a dovetail joint in woodwork class, nearly amputating 3 fingers in doing so!


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

newme said:


> Touch base, I fucking hate it.


Touch my base, & blood will flow!!!


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Someone used that repeatedly in a meeting I was in this week.


I hope you set an attack gull or at least a wasp onto them?


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Just heard 'podinar' in advert. Aggh


Sounds like a container for excrement.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 16, 2022)

High Net worth 
Ultra high net worth

What's wrong with 'rich' and 'filthy, stinking rich'?


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## Sue (Nov 25, 2022)

Humble

Only ever used by or about people who're in no way genuinely so but who know it's a thing to pretend to be.


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## A380 (Dec 3, 2022)




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## kabbes (Dec 3, 2022)

I think that ol’ Brian is being inappropriate in the workplace there.  HR are going to come down on him if he’s not careful.


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## Chemical needs (Dec 3, 2022)

'Granularity'. And, more recently, 'Specificty'.


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## Sue (Dec 3, 2022)

Virality


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## kabbes (Dec 3, 2022)

Chemical needs said:


> 'Granularity'. And, more recently, 'Specificty'.


Granularity is one of the most useful words ever invented.

It's very old, though.  We have a model with "granularization" parameters dating back from the early 2000s, for example.


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## tommers (Dec 3, 2022)

"those affected" = "people who have been made redundant just before xmas"

Was xxxx affected? No he still works here.


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## quiet guy (Dec 4, 2022)

Always just before Christmas. There is a deep, deep hole in hell reserved for bosses who do this.


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## friendofdorothy (Dec 4, 2022)

Chemical needs said:


> 'Granularity'.


Got to ask, what does that mean and in what context?


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## friendofdorothy (Dec 4, 2022)

Chemical needs said:


> 'Specificty'.


Is that different from specifically? Is it an Americanism?


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## Skim (Dec 4, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Got to ask, what does that mean and in what context?


It’s just a fancy word for 'detail'.


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## kabbes (Dec 4, 2022)

Granularity is another word for resolution, really.  How many pieces you have chopped your information into.  That is more subtle than just detail.


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## Chemical needs (Dec 4, 2022)

I think both granularity and specificity are both synonymous with detail.


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## kabbes (Dec 4, 2022)

They’re not, though. Detail is a feature that you can have at either high or low granularity.


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## Chemical needs (Dec 4, 2022)

Like more or less detail?


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## mx wcfc (Dec 4, 2022)

Certainly at my place, granularity is more detailed than detail, and more importantly, more important than detail.  Or at least the people who use the term granularity like to think they are more important.


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## kabbes (Dec 5, 2022)

For example, we have data about claims that have been made. That data can be detailed — full information about the nature of the exposure, all details of the claim, environmental conditions etc. or it can be broad — just a list of claim amounts. The granularity of the data, however, relates to how it is presented for analysis — all as one lump, split into types of business, split by region etc. The information is the same in each instance — it’s just as _detailed_. But the _granularity_ that will be used for the analysis depends on the credibility and homogeneity of the possible splits.


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## 8ball (Dec 5, 2022)

kabbes said:


> For example, we have data about claims that have been made. That data can be detailed — full information about the nature of the exposure, all details of the claim, environmental conditions etc. or it can be broad — just a list of claim amounts. The granularity of the data, however, relates to how it is presented for analysis — all as one lump, split into types of business, split by region etc. The information is the same in each instance — it’s just as _detailed_. But the _granularity_ that will be used for the analysis depends on the credibility and homogeneity of the possible splits.



I’m not sure how helpful this will be for people who don’t work in insurance or similar.

Also, I can find lots of definitions that directly contradict the above, so I think it’s more an individual interpretation than an explanation.


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## Wolveryeti (Dec 5, 2022)




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## Skim (Dec 5, 2022)

Wolveryeti said:


> View attachment 354338


But what if you’re a sociologist?


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## Ming (Dec 9, 2022)

Clinical informatics.


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## quiet guy (Dec 9, 2022)

Is that modern day pretty pictures in a report?


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## kabbes (Dec 9, 2022)

Sounds to me more like another word for bioinformatics


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## 8ball (Dec 9, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Sounds to me more like another word for bioinformatics



Bioinformatics is a little broader, but yeah, basically.


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## friendofdorothy (Dec 18, 2022)

Scoping exercise. What does that mean?


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## 8ball (Dec 18, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Scoping exercise. What does that mean?



I think it’s when they stick the camera up your bum.


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## friendofdorothy (Dec 18, 2022)

8ball said:


> I think it’s when they stick the camera up your bum.


Thanks I'll mention that in the charity board meeting.


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## tommers (Dec 18, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Thanks I'll mention that in the charity board meeting.


Yeah its definitely that. Base your presentation on that.


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## Ming (Dec 18, 2022)

I'm not a 100% sure myself. 

But it does sound significant*. *


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## quiet guy (Dec 18, 2022)

The thought of a camera with a telescopic lens.. ooh er. 

A scoping exercise is checking the feasibility of an idea, obtaining costs, checking planning issues etc. and then presenting it to an oversight panel for approval or amendments.


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## friendofdorothy (Dec 18, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> The thought of a camera with a telescopic lens.. ooh er.
> 
> A scoping exercise is checking the feasibility of an idea, obtaining costs, checking planning issues etc. and then presenting it to an oversight panel for approval or amendments.


That is good to know as apparently the charity I am on the board of have some some funding to do this.


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## 8ball (Dec 18, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> That is good to know as apparently the charity I am on the board of have some some funding to do this.



If it's a charity linked to colonoscopies in any way, you might be sorted in either case.


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## newme (Dec 18, 2022)

Mine just sent me chocolates before I join in January. While it seems a nice gesture in theory I know its some corporate bullshit to make me think some random company cares about "insert employee name" I was weirdly conflicted eating them. Not wasting them rho


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## 8ball (Dec 18, 2022)

newme said:


> Mine just sent me chocolates before I join in January. While it seems a nice gesture in theory I know its some corporate bullshit to make me think some random company cares about "insert employee name" I was weirdly conflicted eating them. Not wasting them rho



I guess you know in advance whether it's corporate bullshit from the application process.

You'll know they're real wrong 'uns if it's Hershey's, though.


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## Ming (Dec 18, 2022)

‘Here’s a webinar you might be interested in’. (Fuck off nurse educator I’m nursing)


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## friendofdorothy (Dec 19, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> That is good to know as apparently the charity I am on the board of have some some funding to do this.


yippee threw a few 'promoting mental health issues' 'health outcomes' and 'achieving funding objectives' etc in a board meeting and got approval to use funding for my pet project.


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## tommers (Dec 19, 2022)

newme said:


> Mine just sent me chocolates before I join in January. While it seems a nice gesture in theory I know its some corporate bullshit to make me think some random company cares about "insert employee name" I was weirdly conflicted eating them. Not wasting them rho


I always prefer the carrot to the stick tbh.


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## Sue (Dec 21, 2022)

'...hit me back with a copy of your CV and let's jump on a call!'

Just in from a recruitment agent talent management consultant. For the record, she didn't actually _physically_ hit me.


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## weltweit (Dec 21, 2022)

This "get on a call" business from sales people bothers me. I often get asked by email to take a call, from people I have no intention of wasting time with. They seem so ensured that a few minutes of their bullshit will persuade me to invest in their product which I have already decided is not for me.

Some are even worse, James Arbuthnot our managing partner is only free now a couple of sessions next week, I would really like to get a slot where he can talk to you about all the benefits we can offer. (despite that I don't want to talk to him and am busy myself).

Actually worse is people who email me asking for a call. I don't respond in any way. A few days later another email arrives, hope you saw my first email, etc .. I don't respond, usually a third email comes with a slightly more urgent tone. As far as I am concerned I don't have any obligation to respond to blind spam email, unless I am interested in it. They usually get the message.

Then there are sort of business like emails from gmail, asking for a response. As it happens some of them do interest me but I am not going to respond when I have no idea who I am talking to - Bin immediately.  In 2022 I got a lot of these.

What I don't understand is why these people wanting to talk to me don't just pick up the phone rather than spamming my inbox. If they can get past our reception gatekeeper I always take the call.


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## friendofdorothy (Dec 22, 2022)

weltweit said:


> What I don't understand is why these people wanting to talk to me don't just pick up the phone rather than spamming my inbox. If they can get past our reception gatekeeper I always take the call.


I used to be a receptionist and saving people from spam calls was part of the job. Absolute deluge of calls when some hr person encouraged everyone get a LinkedIn profile. Not sure was benefit to the organisation that could possibly gain especially as it was a charity. 

I wonder when did it become essential to 'book' a call? Polite with business people you don't know maybe,  but infuriating with people you  already know or working on a project with. I'm a volunteer now and there's one charity were none of the staff disclose their work numbers yet they will go back and forth over dozens of emails over something that could easily be solved in a five minute phone call. Really annoying.


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## weltweit (Dec 22, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> I used to be a receptionist and saving people from spam calls was part of the job. Absolute deluge of calls when some hr person encouraged everyone get a LinkedIn profile. Not sure was benefit to the organisation that could possibly gain especially as it was a charity.


Yes, I deal with receptionists both ways, people wanting to talk to me have to go through our receptionist, and to get through to people I want to speak to I have to go through theirs. Luckily most of my calling these days is warm rather than cold, so I can usually get through. 


friendofdorothy said:


> I wonder when did it become essential to 'book' a call? Polite with business people you don't know maybe,  but infuriating with people you  already know or working on a project with. I'm a volunteer now and there's one charity were none of the staff disclose their work numbers yet they will go back and forth over dozens of emails over something that could easily be solved in a five minute phone call. Really annoying.


Yes, I agree, you can get a lot done with a short phone call. I wonder if the sales people are remunerated partly by how many calls they book, including obviously teams and zoon calls!


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## kabbes (Dec 22, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Actually worse is people who email me asking for a call. I don't respond in any way. A few days later another email arrives, hope you saw my first email, etc .. I don't respond, usually a third email comes with a slightly more urgent tone. As far as I am concerned I don't have any obligation to respond to blind spam email, unless I am interested in it. They usually get the message.


I very much empathise with this. They act so damned hurt that I have been so _rude_ as to not respond to their emails.  I don’t have to respond to your unwanted and unsolicited spam email!  Even if we _did_ once meet at something I no longer remember two years ago!


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2022)

I’m not important enough to get these kinds of calls or emails.


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## tommers (Jan 6, 2023)




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