# How can this be a drawing? (Paul Cadden)



## Ponyutd (Mar 17, 2012)




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## editor (Mar 17, 2012)

A little bit of background wouldn't hurt:







> Paul Cadden copies photographs in amazing detail, creating life-like images that appear deceptively real.
> 
> His realistic image even captures the way light reflects through the drops of water in mid-air.
> 
> ...


 
More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ist-artist-recreating-photographs-pencil.html

*title edited for clarity


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## AverageJoe (Mar 17, 2012)

Is that the work of Paul Cadden? His pictures are quite amazing.


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## Hocus Eye. (Mar 17, 2012)

It is done by working from a photograph or film still using drawing media. It is called Hyperrealism but is it art?

Yes it is a Paul Cadden.


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## emanymton (Mar 17, 2012)

I tend to take a very wide view of want counts as art, as I think the more important question will always be: is it good art?


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## twentythreedom (Mar 17, 2012)

pretty awesome imo.... art or not!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 17, 2012)

I remember seeing his stuff in a newspaper a couple of years ago.

I like it


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## AverageJoe (Mar 17, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> It is done by working from a photograph or film still using drawing media. It is called Hyperrealism but is it art?
> 
> Yes it is a Paul Cadden.


 
So are you saying that its not him sitting there with a range of pencils etc drawing this up from scratch? Is it just taking a photo and manipulating it? I dont know his work other than what was posted on the "...bandwidth" thread the other day. If he's doing this from scratch then that is incredible talent and technique (even if its copying from a photo), but if he is just manipulating images, well my kids could do (and do do) that


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## Miss Caphat (Mar 17, 2012)

emanymton said:


> I tend to take a very wide view of want counts as art, as I think the more important question will always be: is it good art?


 
this type of art _seems_ like it's created to make the viewer go "ooh" "how can that be a drawing?" etc, and therefore to stroke the artist's ego.  
However, having known some of these types in my art classes in high school & college, it is almost a form of autistic obsession in most cases. They don't really know why they are doing it, but they can't stop. They need to get every mark perfect. Typically, they struggle with loosening up and with abstraction. 
Not to make the same generalization about Paul Cadden, but it makes me happy to see these people get work and paid for what they clearly need to do, because I don't think they could be happy doing anything else.


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## Hocus Eye. (Mar 17, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> So are you saying that its not him sitting there with a range of pencils etc drawing this up from scratch? Is it just taking a photo and manipulating it? I dont know his work other than what was posted on the "...bandwidth" thread the other day. If he's doing this from scratch then that is incredible talent and technique (even if its copying from a photo), but if he is just manipulating images, well my kids could do (and do do) that


No he is not just cutting and pasting. He draws or paints from photographs. Here is his website:- http://paulcadden.com/

Click on any of the listed galleries on the left of his home page.


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## Miss Caphat (Mar 17, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> So are you saying that its not him sitting there with a range of pencils etc drawing this up from scratch? Is it just taking a photo and manipulating it? I dont know his work other than what was posted on the "...bandwidth" thread the other day. If he's doing this from scratch then that is incredible talent and technique (even if its copying from a photo), but if he is just manipulating images, well my kids could do (and do do) that


 
he meant copying from a photo, with pencils etc.


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## AverageJoe (Mar 17, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> he meant copying from a photo, with pencils etc.


 
No copying from a photo is fine in my book. I cant imagine that he would get the subjects to sit still enough! I was just wondering whether that was what he is doing, or whether he was importing the photo into a computer or something and manipulating the image to make it look like a drawing. Which isnt quite as impressive


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 17, 2012)

There was a "school" of painting in the 1960s called "photorealism" which did much the same thing in colour with paint, albeit not always quite managing to be photo-realistic, IYSWIM.


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## Epona (Mar 18, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> this type of art _seems_ like it's created to make the viewer go "ooh" "how can that be a drawing?" etc, and therefore to stroke the artist's ego.
> However, having known some of these types in my art classes in high school & college, it is almost a form of autistic obsession in most cases. They don't really know why they are doing it, but they can't stop. They need to get every mark perfect. Typically, they struggle with loosening up and with abstraction.
> Not to make the same generalization about Paul Cadden, but it makes me happy to see these people get work and paid for what they clearly need to do, because I don't think they could be happy doing anything else.


 
tbh when I decide to do something 'artistic' it is normally along those lines, and you are right it is almost obsessional in terms of a desire to re-create a particular image, and this is the sort of thing I do when I have a pencil and paper and some time to spare (but nowhere near that good, I don't have anything near his level of skill). I actually have very little in terms of creative or new ideas, that's not my thing, but I am quite decent at making a drawing by copying a photo, and am quite skilled as an archaeological illustrator (site maps, scale drawings of artefacts, that sort of thing, I'm good at that) but with little creativity for coming up with new ideas of my own. I see myself as a draughtsman rather than an artist.


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## ymu (Mar 18, 2012)

Epona said:


> .... I see myself as a draughtsman rather than an artist.


I think that's what Hocus is getting at. A super-accurate reproduction of a photograph demonstrates huge skill, but does it have any more value as art than the original photograph does? Clearly it does - but that value comes from knowing that it is not a photograph, nothing else. But then again, part of the value of any art is in admiring the skill of the artist in producing the work, as well as the ideas behind it.

I went to a Lowry exhibition a while ago and there was a lot of early stuff from his art school days. There was a lot of 'realistic' art, quite unlike the style he is famous for. I guess all artists need this sort of competency before they can successfully go off at a tangent. Lots of art looks like something a child could produce but it's not.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

i find technical work has it's own qualities.

rather than conveying emotions  you are  refining information.  

a painting may move you

a blueprint SHOULD enlighten you.

in this case  the sheer demonstration of skill  in itself is a statement about  the human condition.  what drives us?  what  can we achieve?  what is  the purpose of an activity?  how do we see the world?  how  do we  make sense of it?

in the end  all human endeavours that  have thought behind them are creative.  we as humans strive to  make something  from  nothing.  that act  may have been  rendered mundane to our  eyes  but  locked in every creation is a story.


actually  as an archaeologist i do have to ask  what  do you want  to  find?   a  decorative statue or a pile of pots in a midden? tablets of poetry or warehouse records?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

When the flush of a new-born sun fell first on Eden's green and gold,
Our father Adam sat under the Tree and scratched with a stick in the mould;
And the first rude sketch that the world had seen was joy to his mighty heart,
Till the Devil whispered behind the leaves, "It's pretty, but is it Art?"


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## ymu (Mar 18, 2012)

Are there any artists using photo-realism who deliberately demonstrate that it's not a photo within the image itself? To appreciate a Paul Cadden properly, you have to know it's a Paul Cadden. An image that mixed hyper-realism with normal representational and/or abstract art would be interesting. Although these days I guess it would still be easy to assume that there was computer wizardry behind it so you'd still need to know something about how it was produced to appreciate it properly.

EDIT
Ooh - Cadden does this too.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

unless it was trying to do an uncanny valley type thing

the more realistic you  are the  more unreal the piece is


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## Epona (Mar 18, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> actually as an archaeologist i do have to ask what do you want to find? a decorative statue or a pile of pots in a midden? tablets of poetry or warehouse records?


 
As an archaeologist, the most valuable find is actually not the statue or poetry, it's the warehouse records (or something like the Vindolanda Tablets which included information such as laundry lists) - because it provides contextual information about the people who were alive at that time and their everyday existence, and that's what archaeology strives to do - the statue may look nice in a museum, but it doesn't tell you nearly as much about ordinary lives as the warehouse records. We're in danger of veering horribly off-topic, so I will leave it at that


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

thought that might be the case.

personally i think  that technical endeavours tells  you more  about humanity  because  it  it is all about shared understanding and  in my opinion humanity is all about conveyance of information.  how a society communicates isn't just a reflection of humanity  it is  humanity

this is also why  i like my job.   not only am i a teacher my specialist subject is  the web.  the latest development in human exteligence


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## Mumbles274 (Mar 18, 2012)

there is also the style called trompe l'oeil, 'to decieve the eye', slightly different as the effect is usually to create an optical illusion

wiki link

shippou, where did you 'is it art' quote come from... i like


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

The Conundrum of the Workshops  - Kipling

can't remember where i first hear it


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## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2012)

i don't really rate these pictures - it's not really art is it? it's just technique. yawn.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i don't really rate these pictures - it's not really art is it? it's just technique. yawn.


what is the difference between art and technique?
both are skilled  and  both have purpose

also

just technique?

isn't all art relient on technique?

and damn fool can have emotions.  it's  all about your technique in conveying or inspiring  emotion.

also does it say some thing about humanity  that  people  wish to hone their technique to this level?


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## Stanley Edwards (Mar 18, 2012)

If it is presented as art, then it deserves consideration from the viewer as art. It's not for me personally. I get more sense of emotion conveyed by real photographs.

Technically brilliant, but emotionally dull. The photograph was a recording of a reality. The sketch is not. Nothing more than a showcase of technical brilliance. Worth appreciating for that alone mind.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> what is the difference between art and technique?
> both are skilled and both have purpose
> 
> also
> ...


it's boring. there's no 'heart' in it. no emotion. leaves me cold.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

ah but there is heart in it   it's  just  a diffrent type of heart

it kinda reminds me of  why i don't like sport

for me most  sports   just bore me  because  i can connect  with  the skill

when i watch documentaries on a sport  i'm drawn in  i connect with  the   effort  and dedication involved at being world class

it's not that  these pictures have no emotions  behind them  it is just that the emotion is hidden


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## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2012)

it's just copying really. i want more than that.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 18, 2012)

and all sport is just people running around


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## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2012)

indeed.


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## extra dry (Mar 31, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> i don't really rate these pictures - it's not really art is it? it's just technique. yawn.


yes, just as if we had never moved on in technique or art as two linked contexts we would still be painting in caves.


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## extra dry (Mar 31, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> and all sport is just people running around


speed snooker anyone...


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