# Mad Men season 6



## belboid (Mar 26, 2013)

Starts on AMC on April 7th. 

Should keep us going till Breaking Bad is back.


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## Reno (Mar 26, 2013)

Can't wait. Still my favourite series going.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 26, 2013)

belboid said:


> Starts on AMC on April 7th.
> 
> Should keep us going till Breaking Bad is back.


That will bring the usual big American series dilema - download each week, or wait to torrent the lot in one go and have a marathon viewing session


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## belboid (Mar 26, 2013)

Double episode to open. It has to be weekly, or you'll be really annoyed you can't read this thread!


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## Reno (Mar 26, 2013)

I tend to record the entire season and then watch it over a week. Can't do it any other way any more, too used to it now.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> Starts on AMC on April 7th.
> 
> Should keep us going till Breaking Bad is back.


That'll be on Sky Atlantic again, won't it?  I'll wait for the DVD to come out.


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## little_legs (Mar 27, 2013)

Season 6 poster

ETA: Created by Brian Sanders


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## TruXta (Mar 27, 2013)

Oooo totally forgot about this! GoT this Monday, then MM the week after. Nice.


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## belboid (Mar 27, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> That'll be on Sky Atlantic again, won't it?  I'll wait for the DVD to come out.


From Wednesday 10th. They list it as the penultimate series.


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## TruXta (Mar 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> From Wednesday 10th. They list it as the penultimate series.


That's good, IMO it could've ended with this series but fair fucks to them.


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## joustmaster (Mar 27, 2013)

What happened at the end of last series?


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## Santino (Mar 27, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Season 6 poster
> 
> ETA: Created by Brian Sanders


How can there be TWO Dons? That doesn't make any sense! What is this, Lost?


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## TruXta (Mar 27, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> What happened at the end of last series?


Did you see it? E2A do you mean series 5?


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## joustmaster (Mar 27, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Did you see it? E2A do you mean series 5?


Yes, the end of the last series.. It was ages ago.


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## TruXta (Mar 27, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> Yes, the end of the last series.. It was ages ago.


I can't remember any more  I meant this series could've been the last, more on general principle like.


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## Reno (Mar 27, 2013)

Santino said:


> How can there be TWO Dons? That doesn't make any sense! What is this, Lost?


 
There always have been two Dons. Apparently this season will get back to his whole double identity.


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## TruXta (Mar 27, 2013)

Reno said:


> There always have been two Dons. Apparently this season will get back to his whole double identity.


Intewesting.....


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## Reno (Mar 27, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> What happened at the end of last series?


There are plenty of places on the web where you can get an episode synopsis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men_(season_5)


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## Santino (Mar 27, 2013)

Ah, like the Godfather Part 2.


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## mrsfran (Mar 27, 2013)

Santino said:


> How can there be TWO Dons? That doesn't make any sense! What is this, Lost?


 
And why are there police in the background? Is he going to be arrested for identity theft?


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## Santino (Mar 27, 2013)

He will only travel One Way.


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## Santino (Mar 27, 2013)

Is that Del Boy's yellow van in the background?


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## Reno (Mar 27, 2013)

Santino said:


> Is that Del Boy's yellow van in the background?


Never seen a NY cab ?


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## Santino (Mar 27, 2013)

One of the cops is clearly Hitler.


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## joustmaster (Mar 27, 2013)

Reno said:


> There are plenty of places on the web where you can get an episode synopsis.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Men_(season_5)


II was hoping for the lazy option of having some one tell me. 

But I I've read it now. And the answer was - lots of things happened to


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## danny la rouge (Mar 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> From Wednesday 10th. They list it as the penultimate series.


They're going for 7?  Cool.  Series 5 warmed up, but it wasn't as good as 1,2, or 3.  But that's only relatively.  It's still one of the best things on TV.


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## Reno (Mar 27, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> II was hoping for the lazy option of having some one tell me.
> 
> But I I've read it now. And the answer was - lots of things happened to


You are better off with a synopsis. Who can remember all the sub-plots after nearly a year and will then bother to recount it all accurately for you.


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## joustmaster (Mar 27, 2013)

Reno said:


> You are better off with a synopsis. Who can remember all the sub-plots after nearly a year and will then bother to recount it all accurately for you.


I'd completely forgotten about the lsd


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## little_legs (Mar 27, 2013)

Santino said:


> How can there be TWO Dons? That doesn't make any sense! What is this, Lost?


It's hard to tell, Don's double personality and his conduct stemming from his lies are amongst the main themes of the show. FWIW, I reckon his walking away from his other self on the poster speaks more of paranoia than leaving his other self behind. Maybe it means that he is now worried about fighting his younger self (Peggy) professionally. 

As the show is headed in the 60's, the cops’ presence on the poster is possibly about the unrest related to the civil rights movement. 

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve given up on guessing what will happen on the show long time ago. The MM writers are so much more educated than myself about the events in history and so far they have been consistently good at blowing my expectations out of the water. I just watch every episode in awe, make notes and go read about the stuff they talk about.


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## belboid (Mar 27, 2013)

little_legs said:


> It's hard to tell, Don's double personality and his conduct stemming from his lies are amongst the main themes of the show. FWIW, I reckon his walking away from his other self on the poster speaks more of paranoia than leaving his other self behind. Maybe it means that he is now worried about fighting his younger self (Peggy) professionally.


would the young Don approve of what the modern Don is doing? Is this why he recreated himself? Is his past coming back to haunt him?  etc etc



danny la rouge said:


> They're going for 7? Cool. Series 5 warmed up, but it wasn't as good as 1,2, or 3. But that's only relatively. It's still one of the best things on TV.


I cant remember if we knew there were to b e seven already.  I know Weiner has said he's always known how it will finish, but as to the number of seasons....


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## Reno (Mar 27, 2013)

When they had the contract negotiations which made the news ahead of Season 5, show-runner Matthew Weiner signed on for 3 more seasons, including 5, which means altogether 7 seasons are expected.


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## belboid (Mar 27, 2013)

Reno said:


> show-runner Matthew Weiner


they really should choose another name for that role.  Whenever I see it I always think 'schmuck who has to get the coffees'


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## little_legs (Mar 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> would the young Don approve of what the modern Don is doing? Is this why he recreated himself? Is his past coming back to haunt him? etc etc


He would most definitely approve of what the modern Don is doing.


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## spanglechick (Mar 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> they really should choose another name for that role.  Whenever I see it I always think 'schmuck who has to get the coffees'


Yes, me too.   

I think the poster is terrible, btw.  It looks like fan art.


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## TruXta (Mar 27, 2013)

It's very of the time tho.


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## little_legs (Mar 27, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> I think the poster is terrible, btw. It looks like fan art.


 


TruXta said:


> It's very of the time tho.


 
_*'bubble and streak'*_


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## Part 2 (Mar 28, 2013)

I think of all the series I've watched, Mad Men is the one I can do week to week rather than all in one go. First time I watched it I saw the first four series in a week and really overdid it. By the end of s4 I'd had enough.


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## Reno (Mar 29, 2013)

Binge watching Mad Men works for me.


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## Johnny Vodka (Apr 6, 2013)

Discussion about Mad Men's women: http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2013/apr/05/what-mad-men-says-about-women

I just skimmed because I'm only on S3.  Interesting to learn most of the writers are female.


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## Maltin (Apr 6, 2013)

Will it be OK to start watching from season 6 or do I need to have watched the earlier seasons first?


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## Johnny Vodka (Apr 6, 2013)

Maltin said:


> Will it be OK to start watching from season 6 or do I need to have watched the earlier seasons first?


 
It's one of those shows where things happen slowly. Everything's in the detail (and it's as much about the attitudes of the times as plot/characters). I don't think you'd be confused by plot jumping in later, but you'd have missed a lot of good stuff.


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## Reno (Apr 6, 2013)

Maltin said:


> Will it be OK to start watching from season 6 or do I need to have watched the earlier seasons first?



Another one here who thinks it's worth watching from the start. Mad Men is one of those shows which tells one long story and if you don't know how the characters arrived where they are now, it's probably much less interesting. The other thing is that the show very much is about how America changed throughout the 60's, backed up by meticulous design and art direction and tracking that change is one of its joys.


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## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2013)

Also - you will want to watch the rest.  You will.  And if you've already seen season six... well it's not like there are many big dramatic spoilers in every episode, but you will know how certain plotlines end or develop, which would be a shame.


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## Maltin (Apr 6, 2013)

OK.  Thanks for the responses.  I'll record the current series and try to catch up on the earlier seasons to watch first.


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## joustmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

It was on last night. 
a double episode


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## smorodina (Apr 8, 2013)

was it entertaining?
where on the scale 1 to 10?


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## belboid (Apr 8, 2013)

yummy, on its way down now


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## joustmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

smorodina said:


> was it entertaining?
> where on the scale 1 to 10?


I haven't watched it yet.. Just wanted to let people know it was avaialble.

I shall watch it this evening


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## belboid (Apr 8, 2013)

yey, I was half expecting the copy I just found to turn out to be fake, but no.  Now, shall I wait for mrs b or not....


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## smorodina (Apr 8, 2013)

belboid said:


> Now, shall I wait for mrs b or not....


 I think you should


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## belboid (Apr 8, 2013)

hehe, this is turning into a _very_ good day already


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 8, 2013)

I watched it this morning.


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## wtfftw (Apr 8, 2013)

What time is it on? I'm assuming we're counting post UK showing as post spoilers?


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## Reno (Apr 8, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> I watched it this morning.


This is almost comically uninformative.


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## Reno (Apr 8, 2013)

wtfftw said:


> What time is it on? I'm assuming we're counting post UK showing as post spoilers?


As the spoiler code is now very easy to use, why not do that ?


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## wtfftw (Apr 8, 2013)

Because there might be done convention I'm unaware of having watched most behind schedule. 


Anyway. Woo! It's back.


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## belboid (Apr 9, 2013)

Reno said:


> As the spoiler code is now very easy to use, why not do that ?


no, its a fair point (I'm not actually sure if the following is in reply to what you actually mean but I think we need to be clear about what is a spoiler and what isnt, for the purposes of this thread).

We can't be expected to not post up plot details as and when they occur. Even if we remember for the episode in question, by the end of the Season we'll be bound to be going 'since Don  fucked XYZ.....' or every other post will be spoilered.

Downloaders post this weeks edition in code, after wednesday, everything is fair game.

(I've still got the The Hour thread unred cos I might get round to watching it as some point. It's most annoying seeing it in the 'Unread Posts' page, but I might still watch it, and I cant risk those spoilers...)


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## Reno (Apr 9, 2013)

I think major plot developments like the departure of an important character or something majorly traumatic happening to them or a life change should be spoilered, but minor plot developments or incidents should be fine. I'm going to Sky-box it all and I won't watch it till it's done so I can binge-watch it, so I'll leave of this thread soon anyway.


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## joustmaster (Apr 9, 2013)

belboid said:


> Downloaders post this weeks edition in code, after wednesday, everything is fair game.


That's not the way it's worked with other shows, on here. 

Once it's broadcast people post about it. Maybe don't look at the thread on Monday or Tuesday, if you don't get to see it until a few days after everyone else..


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## belboid (Apr 9, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> That's not the way it's worked with other shows, on here.
> 
> Once it's broadcast people post about it. Maybe don't look at the thread on Monday or Tuesday, if you don't get to see it until a few days after everyone else..


'broadcast' - that's wednesday


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## joustmaster (Apr 9, 2013)

belboid said:


> 'broadcast' - that's wednesday


That depends what tv channels you have and which country you live in.


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## belboid (Apr 9, 2013)

well, this is a uk board....

I'm not really that arsed, or trying to be prescriptive...except that if anyone thinks they can read this thread *and* watch the entire season at once once it;s finished...they're not gonna be happy


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## Epona (Apr 9, 2013)

I tend to watch stuff like this within a few hours of it being aired, but it certainly doesn't kill me to put things in spoiler tags for the benefit of those who don't get to see it right away. However, there is a limit, and people shouldn't be having to use spoiler tags for stuff from previous seasons on the off-chance that they might give something away to someone who is really late to the party. I wouldn't expect someone to put the plot of something that I failed to watch several years ago in spoiler tags when I have had ample opportunity to watch whatever they are discussing - if I suddenly decided to watch it, I'd avoid threads about it until I had caught up and if I went on a thread and had stuff from a while back spoiled, I would only have myself to blame.

Really enjoyed the start of this season.


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## little_legs (Apr 10, 2013)

Don Draper: That make you think of suicide?
Stan Rizzo: Of course! That's what's so great about it.


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## madamv (Apr 10, 2013)

Watching it live now.  Loving the look.  Loads of vivid colour


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## belboid (Apr 14, 2013)

just watched it. Still so bloody good. Many great lines and scenes, looks very interestingly set up.

A great headline in NYE paper: The end of a violent year.

Just you wait for 1968 if you thought _that_ was violent.


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## Silva (Apr 17, 2013)

The last episode (2nd) possibly hints at the origin of Don's relationship issues (or, well, being unable to keep his Whitman on his pants), why he's so upset at Joan's decision at the end of the last season and downright hostile towards that client.

It's starting with more pace that I remember. Next episode should have Peggy facing  consequences of her actions, particularly if she's following the business ethics path of Don or going in another direction.


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 17, 2013)

Silva said:


> The last episode (2nd) possibly hints at the origin of Don's relationship issues (or, well, being unable to keep his Whitman on his pants), why he's so upset at Joan's decision at the end of the last season and downright hostile towards that client.


 
so glad they're addressing this. and I agree with your reasoning about Don's attitude towards the Jaguar client.  

Don seems to be hitting rock bottom.


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## Silva (Apr 17, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> so glad they're addressing this. and I agree with your reasoning about Don's attitude towards the Jaguar client.
> 
> Don seems to be hitting rock bottom.


I think Don is realizing that while projecting that image of the powerful, successful executive, deep down, his personality is ultimately dominated by Dick, and Don will never be truly happy because of it. If what was hinted confirms, not even being a womanizer is part of Don's "powerful business man who does as he pleases" personality, but merely another reflex of his past before the fuel tank exploded in Korea.*

On the other hand, it also makes Pete look more of a sleazebag, in the "well, what's _his_ excuse?" grounds.


* anyone who never saw the series reads this and imagines a back story where two people were fused together during an accident on Korea.


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## Buddy Bradley (Apr 17, 2013)

It's not just me, is it - almost all the writers in SCDP are new characters, right? Only the young Jewish hot-shot and Beardy were around last season? Or is my memory worse than I thought...


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## Buddy Bradley (Apr 17, 2013)

Also - are they just Sterling-Cooper-Draper now? Or Sterling-Cooper-Draper-Harris, even!


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## belboid (Apr 17, 2013)

Buddy Bradley said:


> It's not just me, is it - almost all the writers in SCDP are new characters, right? Only the young Jewish hot-shot and Beardy were around last season? Or is my memory worse than I thought...


two now ones, t'others in different departments, innit?  It is hard to tell with all that godawful facial hair/



Buddy Bradley said:


> Also - are they just Sterling-Cooper-Draper now? Or Sterling-Cooper-Draper-Harris, even!


no, still the four originals, neither Pete nor Joan get their names on the door.


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## little_legs (Apr 17, 2013)

Pete Campbell: You want a divorce?
Trudy Campbell: I refuse to be a failure. I don't care what you want any more. This is how it's going to work - you will be here only when I tell you to be here. I'm drawing a 50 mile radius around this house and if you so much as open your fly to urinate, I will destroy you.


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## Silva (Apr 22, 2013)

Well, the fourth was not the most exciting episode, more like small plot advances on several fronts. And backstabbings. _So many backstabbings._


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## belboid (Apr 22, 2013)

Silva said:


> Well, the fourth was not the most exciting episode, more like small plot advances on several fronts. And backstabbings. _So many backstabbings._


it's the american dream that is being stabbed in the back, kid, the american dream.

Don is such a shit.


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## little_legs (Apr 23, 2013)

The fourth was the most beautiful episode so far. Full of sadness, pain, and unavoidable truth. All the pretending the characters have been doing over the first 3 episodes is finally being dealt with. The music at the end of the 4th episode and the closing scene with Jon Hamm and Linda Cardellini made me hold my breath. I am excited about what's coming next.

They have been handling gender differences pretty well and have even demonstrated pro-choice notions in the 3rd episode, it's about time they did something meaningful about the race relations which does not include Pete referring to the changes in society.

This is priceless:


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## Silva (Apr 23, 2013)

little_legs said:


> This is priceless:


 
"_I think I see a friend_"


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 23, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Pete Campbell: You want a divorce?
> Trudy Campbell: I refuse to be a failure. I don't care what you want any more. This is how it's going to work - you will be here only when I tell you to be here. I'm drawing a 50 mile radius around this house and if you so much as open your fly to urinate, I will destroy you.


 
am I the only one who didn't quite get what she actually meant by that? Does she mean he can still cheat as long as he's out of the radius? She says she'll destroy him but not through a divorce. Hmm?


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## little_legs (Apr 23, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> am I the only one who didn't quite get what she actually meant by that? Does she mean he can still cheat as long as he's out of the radius? She says she'll destroy him but not through a divorce. Hmm?


 


Spoiler



Trudy basically agreed to something like a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ marriage policy. She was open to the idea of Pete getting an apartment in the city so that she could maintain plausible deniability of whatever went on in that apartment. What she did not agree to is Pete ostentatiously fucking around behind her back because she does not want to be seen as a swinger or worse still be the laughing stock to her neighbours.


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## belboid (Apr 23, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> am I the only one who didn't quite get what she actually meant by that? Does she mean he can still cheat as long as he's out of the radius? She says she'll destroy him but not through a divorce. Hmm?


She's still part of that age and class where _one simply doesn't divorce, darling._  She will be a fraud, however.


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## madamv (Apr 25, 2013)

belboid said:


> it's the american dream that is being stabbed in the back, kid, the american dream.
> 
> Don is such a shit.


He is.   Complete baby.  Good episode


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 29, 2013)

this season is making me giddy, it's been very good! I'm becoming a little obsessed and can't wait for Sunday to come all week


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## Silva (Apr 29, 2013)

I was expecting to see Pete punched again, but for the _wrong_ reasons.


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## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

can there be a wrong reason to punch Pete?


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## Silva (Apr 29, 2013)

Well, unlike most other characters, not being a racist prick like in this case. But in six seasons, that is perhaps the _only_ human quality he has shown.


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## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

Just watched this weeks, and whaddya know!  Pete has actually always been ahead of the game when it comes to race. I'd have expected the more bigotted statements to come from Joan tho


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## little_legs (Apr 30, 2013)

Don Draper:

'I only ever wanted to be the man who loves children, but from the moment they’re born, that baby comes out and you act proud and excited, hand out cigars. But you don’t feel anything, especially if you had a difficult childhood.​ 
You want to love them, but you don’t and the fact you’re faking that feeling makes you wonder if your own father had that same problem. Then one day they get older and you see them do something and you feel that feeling that you were pretending to have and it feels like your heart is going to explode.'​​​


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 30, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Don Draper:
> 
> 'I only ever wanted to be the man who loves children, but from the moment they’re born, that baby comes out and you act proud and excited, hand out cigars. But you don’t feel anything, especially if you had a difficult childhood.​
> You want to love them, but you don’t and the fact you’re faking that feeling makes you wonder if your own father had that same problem. Then one day they get older and you see them do something and you feel that feeling that you were pretending to have and it feels like your heart is going to explode.'​​​


 
that really skeeved me out when he said that...it's good that he's being honest but yikes. it seems more and more like he has a hard time feeling much of anything for anyone and is basically an empty shell.   creepy.


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## little_legs (Apr 30, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> that really skeeved me out when he said that...it's good that he's being honest but yikes. it seems more and more like he has a hard time feeling much of anything for anyone and is basically an empty shell.  creepy.


 
I get what you are saying, but a lot of the moments of realization are like that on Mad Men. And to make things even better, the characters, just like many of us living in the real world I suppose, don't actually do anything when they had these moments of realization, they just carry on doing things they were doing which is amusing because I often find myself making the same mistakes time after time knowing full well that if I don't change my ways there will be no end to the mistakes and yet I don't change.

Personally, I thought Don's statements were poetic. For one thing, I've never had to maintain a single manufactured feeling for a considerable period of time that it became what I really felt, but I have heard similar statements from friends & relatives who ended up in arranged marriages. So although it's sad and possibly creepy, the fact that someone's heart changes itself from the years of training to the point where it stops pretending is pretty amazing.

I fall for it every time, but because the insruance exec kept on repeating 'the heavens are telling us to change' I am hoping that Matt Weiner is changing Don.

The real _eugh!_ moment for me was Peggy & Ted.

ETA: Don't was always supposed to be Don's. Go away, belboid.


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## belboid (Apr 30, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Personally, I thought *Don't* statements were poetic.


good Freudian/auto-correct slip there!


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## little_legs (Apr 30, 2013)

Will edit.


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## mack (Apr 30, 2013)

Interesting episode 6, the assassination of MLK as the backdrop, thought it was a bit overdone but apparently quite accurate.

http://adage.com/article/media/mad-men-recap-ad-biz-reacted-mlk-s-death/241169/


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## Miss Caphat (May 1, 2013)

couple of thoughts on the last episode (The Flood) 

I didn't quite get the scene between Peggy and Abe at first...then I read some Mad men boards and watched it again. It seems clear to me that what was going on was a very sweet encounter and a breakthrough for them. He admits that he wants kids with her, that he wants a future with her, and furthermore perhaps the reason he hasn't said it before is that he feels insecure about what he can bring to the table. This is a big moment for Peggy because she's had her doubts, especially since her mother said something to the effect that he was just playing house with her as practice for the real thing and had no plans of settling down w/ her. 
It sounds very old-fashioned but there you go. This seems to have been misinterpreted by many people who think this episode signified a rift between the two, which would probably end with the realization that Peggy and her married co-worker have something going on. I don't know what that's about, he clearly is into Peggy but I feel this episode cemented Peggy and Abe's relationship rather than cast further doubts on it. 
The part where Bobby is peeling away the wallpaper, again after re-watching, I feel is far more of a metaphor than some sort of indication that he has OCD or some other disorder (as has been mentioned frequently on the MM boards) 
I think it's meaning to show that beneath the surface of this beautiful and wholesome facade that's been created for the kids by Betty and Henry, maybe in large part by Betty to erase the past chaos, there is a lot going on under the surface that the kids are going to be curious about...that they're not just going to accept things at face value.
This was a loss of innocence episode, as was one of the last episode of season 5 for Sally (when she walked in on Roger and Meghan's mom during the "Codfish Ball" episode). The events of this time period were monumental and some of the first that broke that spell of the 50's and 60's in which parents thought they could shield their kids from everything bad in the world, and that they could stop them from questioning the status quo, so I think the writers were subtly trying to show this reflected in Bobby peeling back the layers on his own accord. 
I think him saying he did it because "it didn't line up" means that he did it because that's the way he feels about the world that's been presented to him...it doesn't line up, despite the adults around him insisting that it does, so he has to find out for himself whether to trust what they say/ do. 
It's perhaps a bit trite but I think it worked well. 
Also, I don't think Peggy's realtor messed up the offer on purpose. I think that if it had gone through, it would have just been too much of things working out right for Peggy, or anyone on this show frankly. That just doesn't happen on MM.  

wow, that was a bit of a ramble


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## Silva (May 1, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> The part where Bobby is peeling away the wallpaper, again after re-watching, I feel is far more of a metaphor than some sort of indication that he has OCD or some other disorder (as has been mentioned frequently on the MM boards)


 
I think the Peggy and Abe Zappa stuff is mostly an icon for the reversal of gender roles, and both are trying to figure how their relation works out. 

As for Bobby, it's probably foreshadowing something, like it's usual in MM. Sally has complained a lot about the "creaky old person's home", and Henry is moving up on politics.  I wouldn't be surprised if something happened to the place by the end of this season.


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## belboid (May 1, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> The part where Bobby is peeling away the wallpaper, again after re-watching, I feel is far more of a metaphor than some sort of indication that he has OCD or some other disorder (as has been mentioned frequently on the MM boards)


mm, its just what boys do.  There's some paper, I'll pick at it. There's a scab...He's unhappy.

And, no, the realtor didn't fuck up. That was in there to show that Peggy was quite happy to take advantage of the riots in such a way. Because she is becoming evil, stealing accounts, stealing apartments...That she was being shown around by another woman, was that a first?


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 1, 2013)

Silva said:


> I think the Peggy and Abe Zappa stuff is mostly an icon for the reversal of gender roles, and both are trying to figure how their relation works out.
> 
> As for Bobby, it's probably foreshadowing something, like it's usual in MM. Sally has complained a lot about the "creaky old person's home", and Henry is moving up on politics. I wouldn't be surprised if something happened to the place by the end of this season.


 
I think all of this is probably true, in addition to what I said. 
although for Bobby, all it needed to be foreshadowing was how uneasy he was feeling about his dad, and Henry, and the chaos in the world in general. Something else may happen, but I'm not sure it _has_ to.


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2013)

hmm, Henry is a Republican, so he'll probably win the seat. Not sure if we'll see the election.....Nixon's win will come too late for this season and probably too early for next....This season should just about end with Bobby's assassination ... the series is mirroring the collapse of the american dream ...

I have no idea what, if anything, any of that means.


----------



## Silva (May 1, 2013)

Bobby was shot in July... I don't think there was a season spanning such a short period of time.

I hope they manage to sneak in some references to Mexico '68. The Black Power salute was a huge deal in terms of race relations, and visually the design used had a lot of impact of the graphic design and advertising of the following years.


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2013)

Olympics were October, seasons haven't generally lasted that long. They're usually about six months, I think. There's always a few months between the end of one season and the start of another.


----------



## Silva (May 2, 2013)

But late 68 has two good stories for background: the Olympics (in terms of racial tensions and impact on design) and the Heidi game (TV networks cut a football game with a huge rivalry in the final minutes to broadcast the highly advertised Heidi tv film, and in those two minutes the score was turned around). Since apparently nobody takes Harry Crane seriously I could see a storyline where he pushes Timex into sponsoring the film, and then taking the fallout and losing his job. 

I think it will all depend on where they want to finish the series. There's (at least) two more, which could put the series ending in S8 with in Altamont, the "death of the sixties" and the whole shebang. Or they stretch it out some more, and we get to see Ginsberg in a polyester disco suit.


----------



## belboid (May 2, 2013)

There's only one more series after this. Seven and out. They do a year a series, so it's ending some time in 69.


----------



## Silva (May 2, 2013)

Hm. Got my math wrong, then. Thought it would be eight.


----------



## little_legs (May 6, 2013)

Pete Campbell: Hello.
Tom Vogel: Good night.


----------



## Silva (May 6, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Pete Campbell: Hello.
> Tom Vogel: Good night.


Ken Cosgrove:







As for the episode... holy crap. The big reveal was kind of predictable by midway through the episode, but I was expecting that to be developed as the season went by just in time for the finale. Things got really interesting now.

And poor, poor Joan.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 6, 2013)

belboid said:


> There's only one more series after this. Seven and out. They do a year a series, so it's ending some time in 69.


 
no, they've skipped some years. 
http://www.madmenshow.com/page/Mad+Men+Timeline

started in 1960, and it's only season 6, so they've essentially skipped 2 years


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2013)

hadn't realised just how much they jumped between seasons one and two!  That's the entirety of '61 skipped.  I suppose not that much happened, and what did doesn't fit with the script (not just MM's by any means) of JFK being a modern day saint. Most of '64 was also skipped, crappy times too.

Anyhows..a good episode. Exciting developments which, as usual, do neatly mirror just what happened with such companies.  Interesting article in the NY Times about the trend for going public around then - http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/05/06/the-mad-men-i-p-o/

And, Joans breasts at the beginning of the episode!  Bloody hell, I had to check I hadn't got the TV screen settings wrong, they were more absurdly humungous than ever before.


----------



## little_legs (May 13, 2013)

Don Draper: It's easy to give up something when you're satisfied.
Sylvia Rosen: It's easy to give up something when you're ashamed.


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2013)

after tonight, all i can say is

learn how to pronounce margar_een_ you fuckers.  I kept thinking they were talking about marjoram


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 14, 2013)

belboid said:


> after tonight, all i can say is
> 
> learn how to pronounce margar_een_ you fuckers. I kept thinking they were talking about marjoram


 
didn't you listen to Peggy? The word is French, so neither of us are pronouncing it correctly.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 14, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> couple of thoughts on the last episode (The Flood)
> 
> I didn't quite get the scene between Peggy and Abe at first...then I read some Mad men boards and watched it again. It seems clear to me that what was going on was a very sweet encounter and a breakthrough for them. He admits that he wants kids with her, that he wants a future with her, and furthermore perhaps the reason he hasn't said it before is that he feels insecure about what he can bring to the table. This is a big moment for Peggy because she's had her doubts, especially since her mother said something to the effect that he was just playing house with her as practice for the real thing and had no plans of settling down w/ her.
> It sounds very old-fashioned but there you go. This seems to have been misinterpreted by many people who think this episode signified a rift between the two, which would probably end with the realization that Peggy and her married co-worker have something going on. I don't know what that's about, he clearly is into Peggy but I feel this episode cemented Peggy and Abe's relationship rather than cast further doubts on it.
> ......


 


A week late but I think I was wrong...

oops!


----------



## Silva (May 14, 2013)

I wonder if Harry will end up working in the boiler room.

Also, to anyone asking how could anyone work in the usual Don Draper drunken stupor... not _everyone_ can  It was funny to see Draper joining in the reunion just a bit flushed up and ready to go while Ted drags along about to pass out. I'm just wondering how deliberate that was from Draper. And if Ted was shaking up the plane as retribution. Most likely those two were just playing power/dominance games on each other.

Also, does Pete still has a rifle on his office? He seems to be more frustrated as each episode goes by.


----------



## little_legs (May 14, 2013)

Silva said:


> I'm just wondering how deliberate that was from Draper.


 
As deliberate as a lion urinating on the trees trying to prove his relevance. And failing at that thankfully.

Ted is the best thing that happened to Mad Men this season. Peggy is right, Ted is an optimist and the show needed an antidote to the the stupid dreariness, neverending scolding, pathetic drinking to death character.

Ted is the Megan of last season, he refuses to accept the negativity.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 14, 2013)

Very deliberate. 

And I agree, I quite like Ted. I am also warming to Bob Benson. 

I am enjoying this series. I am starting to think it is the best one yet. Mad Men is the only TV that I have enjoyed for ages


----------



## twistedAM (May 14, 2013)

little_legs said:


> As deliberate as a lion urinating on the trees trying to prove his relevance. And failing at that thankfully.
> 
> Ted is the best thing that happened to Mad Men this season. Peggy is right, Ted is an optimist and the show needed an antidote to the the stupid dreariness, neverending scolding, pathetic drinking to death character.
> 
> Ted is the Megan of last season, he refuses to accept the negativity.


 
I enjoyed the merger stuff. In fact I think the series would be better off without Don now. Bonus is that Betty and her husband go too. Megan could quit acting and go back to copywriting as she's the only one of them that won an award recently.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 14, 2013)

I think Don is becoming increasingly aware of his uselessness. The world is changing around him.


----------



## belboid (May 14, 2013)

Why was Don so against the public floatations?  Is it because they would have to undertake due diligence on _him_ before it could be carried out?

And, of course Teds flight bumps were him showing off and getting his own back on Don.  Beautifully done


----------



## little_legs (May 14, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> I am also warming to Bob Benson.


 
Me too. I am still hoping that he turns out to be a Soviet spy.


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 15, 2013)

The Don/ Ted thing is because Don is still pissed off about Ted "stealing" Peggy, no? 





Silva said:


> I wonder if Harry will end up working in the boiler room.
> 
> Also, to anyone asking how could anyone work in the usual Don Draper drunken stupor... not _everyone_ can  It was funny to see Draper joining in the reunion just a bit flushed up and ready to go while Ted drags along about to pass out. I'm just wondering how deliberate that was from Draper. And if Ted was shaking up the plane as retribution. Most likely those two were just playing power/dominance games on each other.
> 
> Also, does Pete still has a rifle on his office? He seems to be more frustrated as each episode goes by.


 
oh dear I hope not. Pete _is_ seeming a little unhinged lately


----------



## Silva (May 20, 2013)

Just what the hell were they on?


----------



## belboid (May 20, 2013)

some really fucking excellent amphetamines.  Ken, ohh, Ken.

I'm not sure if that was great or awful.


----------



## joustmaster (May 21, 2013)

I watched the episode, then went and bought a few grams of speed.


----------



## Left (May 21, 2013)

Best episode ever!


----------



## little_legs (May 21, 2013)

Don Draper: Every time we get a car, this place turns into a whorehouse.


----------



## madamv (May 23, 2013)

What a nutz episode!  So much happened too!


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 27, 2013)

That episode was one of the finest pieces of television I have ever seen. I don't say that lightly.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 27, 2013)

that one was pretty good as well


----------



## Santino (May 27, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> that one was pretty good as well


Spoilers!


----------



## little_legs (May 28, 2013)

Duck Phillips: I used to be you … but I didn’t understand the wellspring of my competence: my family. 

Edit: competence should be *confidence*. Well spotted, belboid.


----------



## belboid (May 28, 2013)

confidence, wasn't it?

Interesting episode.  What is Bob Benson up to?  I don't trust him an inch.


----------



## little_legs (May 28, 2013)

It _was_ confidence, you are right, belboid. 
Damn it.


----------



## Silva (May 29, 2013)

I laughed at the doctor in the ambulance.

- Stop it, you're going to make it. He's going to make it.
- _shrughs_

Also, Bob. More suspicious every passing week.


----------



## belboid (May 29, 2013)

Silva said:


> Also, Bob. More suspicious every passing week.


a man without a past.  A man with a repeated initial.  Such men are never to be trusted.


----------



## little_legs (May 29, 2013)

belboid said:


> a man without a past. A man with a repeated initial. Such men are never to be trusted.


 
Never thought of that. Don fits this description too.

I wonder if Matt Weiner does this subtle stuff with names on purpose or it's what you get with Weiner in general. The other day, for example, I was reading the wiki entry for Gene McCarthy to familirise myself with his involvment in the 1968 campaign and his relationship with Bobby Kennedy. As I was finishing reading the wiki page, I realised that Bobby and Gene are the names of Don's children!


----------



## belboid (May 29, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Never thought of that. Don fits this description too.


well, quite



> I wonder if Matt Weiner does this subtle stuff with names on purpose or it's what you get with Weiner in general. The other day, for example, I was reading the wiki entry for Gene McCarthy to familirise myself with his involvment in the 1968 campaign and his relationship with Bobby Kennedy. As I was finishing reading the wiki page, I realised that Bobby and Gene are the names of Don's children!


ooh, good spot, hadn't noticed that.

When McCarthy's name was first mentioned mrs b was most confused. She thought it was referring to Joseph McCarthy (of McCarthyism fame) rather than the lefty Eugene.


----------



## belboid (May 31, 2013)

little_legs said:


> It _was_ confidence, you are right, belboid.
> Damn it.


did you check?  Guardian blog agrees with your initial belief.

Also - OMG!!! Megan is Sharon Tate! Shit...
http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/05/mad-style-the-better-half.html


----------



## Superdupastupor (May 31, 2013)

belboid said:


> did you check? Guardian blog agrees with your initial belief.
> 
> Also - OMG!!! Megan is Sharon Tate! Shit...
> http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/05/mad-style-the-better-half.html


 

Sally was reading rosemary's baby earlier in the season  omg. as soon as you said that


----------



## belboid (May 31, 2013)

she was killed two months after bobby k was shot, so we're definitely in the right time frame


----------



## little_legs (May 31, 2013)

belboid said:


> did you check? Guardian blog agrees with your initial belief.
> 
> Also - OMG!!! Megan is Sharon Tate! Shit...
> http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/05/mad-style-the-better-half.html


 
I watched the conversation between Duck and Pete after you replied to my post and am pretty certain your correction stands.

Jesus, I did not even know who Sharon Tate was. I did not want to speculate about this on this thread, but after reading who Tate was from your link, I am tipping Megan to kick the bucket this season.


----------



## belboid (May 31, 2013)

Superdupastupor said:


> Sally was reading rosemary's baby earlier in the season  omg. as soon as you said that


I'd missed you said Sally, I thought you said you'd read it...

o...m...g...



little_legs said:


> I watched the conversation between Duck and Pete after you replied to my post and am pretty certain your correction stands.
> 
> Jesus, I did not even know who Sharon Tate was. I did not want to speculate about this on this thread, but after reading who Tate was from your link, I am tipping Megan to kick the bucket this season.


 
Then again, we all thought Pete was going to die last season (or was it the one before?)

Bob Benson is just a newer, less privilieged, version of Pete?  And Don (minus the privileged bit)?


----------



## little_legs (May 31, 2013)

belboid said:


> Then again, we all thought Pete was going to die last season (or was it the one before?)
> 
> Bob Benson is just a newer, less privilieged, version of Pete? And Don (minus the privileged bit)?


 
I know shows don't work like that and on a show like MM no character is too big to be left alive, but I am confident that Pete, Peggy, Roger, Joan and Don will be there until the final episode of the show. So although there was some speculation that Pete could be the one last season, I personally did not expect anyone to die purely because I did not realise that someone dies in every season.

You think it'll be Pete then? and he'll be replaced by that cunning Bob Benson?


----------



## Miss Caphat (May 31, 2013)

nah, I don't think they'll kill off Pete. There wouldn't be that much of an impact. Nobody really loves Pete that much. Not Trudy, not his kid, not his mom or his brother, nobody at work. It would be a sort of hollow meaningless death.


----------



## belboid (May 31, 2013)

little_legs said:


> You think it'll be Pete then? and he'll be replaced by that cunning Bob Benson?


I doubt he'll die now, and I guess Bob will get his comeuppance - tho there isn't really any reason why he should, he's not really any slimier than anyone else on there.

I have no idea how they can really finish the series off satisfyingly.  With most shows, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Shield, even Six Feet Under, there's been an obvious ending (one way or the other). But with MM?  Who knows.  Unless Don gets killed at Altamont (which should be where the show ends, death of the sixties and all that.  It could be with the election of Nixon, the other end of the sixties, but that will happen too soon.)


----------



## little_legs (May 31, 2013)

belboid said:


> I doubt he'll die now, and I guess Bob will get his comeuppance - tho there isn't really any reason why he should, he's not really any slimier than anyone else on there.


 
They can't kill Pete, I love him. If they kill Pete I will be livid and will do something outrageously ineffectual. I think Bob could only be killed if he becomes more important to the company (I am drawing parallels with Lane from last season here) or if he turns out to be a psycho killer who gets caught. I am looking forward to uncovering his secret though.

Anyway, I am sticking with my Megan bet for now. You can laugh at me later if she makes it through.


> I have no idea how they can really finish the series off satisfyingly. With most shows, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Shield, even Six Feet Under, there's been an obvious ending (one way or the other). But with MM? Who knows. Unless Don gets killed at Altamont (which should be where the show ends, death of the sixties and all that. It could be with the election of Nixon, the other end of the sixties, but that will happen too soon.)


 
I don't know where and how the show will end. I am too ignorant to presume frankly. It would be so cool if Weiner could do a couple of more seasons instead of wrapping the show with S7. Personally, I would settle for Don coming out to everyone as Dick Whitman unscathed, Peggy being given a good break like a partnership and finding love, Pete crawling back to his wife and being accepted, Joan settling down to grow old with Roger. And of course, Ken leaving advertising to write a book akin _'Midnight's Children'_. Plus, if the company could get some kind of PC/Apple account that would be neat too.

Sorry, belboid, but I've not seen any of the shows you mentioned. I only found out a few months ago that Weiner wrote Sopranos.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 3, 2013)

Is anyone else watching this the day after it is shown in the US?


----------



## belboid (Jun 3, 2013)

little_legs said:


> I don't know where and how the show will end. I am too ignorant to presume frankly.


who knows?  but its fun making wild stabs in the dark



> It would be so cool if Weiner could do a couple of more seasons instead of wrapping the show with S7. Personally, I would settle for Don coming out to everyone as Dick Whitman unscathed, Peggy being given a good break like a partnership and finding love, Pete crawling back to his wife and being accepted, Joan settling down to grow old with Roger. And of course, Ken leaving advertising to write a book akin _'Midnight's Children'_. Plus, if the company could get some kind of PC/Apple account that would be neat too.


Don's 'exposure' must form a part of it, I guess.  But I hardly care about that any more, partly because the flashback scenes are always the weakest part of any episode they're in.  Young Dick is not convincing.

I can't quite decide if Joan is too good for Roger, or if they actually completely deserve each other.



Dillinger4 said:


> Is anyone else watching this the day after it is shown in the US?


it will be watched this evening, after tea


----------



## wtfftw (Jun 3, 2013)

I intend to and then every week when this thread gets bumped I go


----------



## belboid (Jun 3, 2013)

wtfftw said:


> I intend to and then every week when this thread gets bumped I go


still plenty of time!


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 3, 2013)

Spoiler



bob benson


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 3, 2013)

Spoiler



fuck yeh that was another great episode


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Jun 3, 2013)

The end of that episode.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 3, 2013)

Threshers_Flail said:


> The end of that episode.


 

I know right?  x million


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 3, 2013)

Spoiler



now I have hopes of Pete doing LSD and turning his life around, going from continual loser to some kind of hippy ubermensch or something


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 3, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> now I have hopes of Pete doing LSD and turning his life around, going from continual loser to some kind of hippy ubermensch or something


 
Imagine having some with him. His face worries me enough as it is. Never mind the sort of person he is


----------



## little_legs (Jun 3, 2013)

Weiner's names game in this episode: Private Dinkins -> Charles Dickens (author of A Tale of Two Cities).

Megan is pregnant... with Satan's baby (_Rosemary's Baby, Sharon Tate_).

And Pete is running fast out fucks to give about anything.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 3, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Weiner's names game in this episode: Private Dinkins -> Charles Dickens (author of A Tale of Two Cities).
> 
> Megan is pregnant... with Satan's baby (_Rosemary's Baby, Sharon Tate_).
> 
> And Pete is running fast out fucks to give about anything.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 3, 2013)

belboid said:


> Don's 'exposure' must form a part of it, I guess.


 
It's on, he did not object for a second when his name was dropped form the company's name.


----------



## belboid (Jun 4, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> bob benson


are you joking?  He just made himself even more of a cunt.  Not quite sure why the partner whose name I am totally unfamiliar with would berate him one second and then send him off on a merry jaunt the next.



little_legs said:


> It's on, he did not object for a second when his name was dropped form the company's name.


didnt he say something about Don not being his name when he was talking to one of the hippy chicks in California (just before 'Megan' turned up.  Fucks knows what that was all about>


----------



## Superdupastupor (Jun 4, 2013)

an interesting take on Mr. Benson


----------



## belboid (Jun 4, 2013)

Superdupastupor said:


> an interesting take on Mr. Benson


i like the penultimate paragraph:

"My bet is that the joke is on us, that there is no great reveal. Bob Benson is a way for the writers to show us how, in the world of _Mad Men_, the very qualities that define a real go-getting American businessman, here, in this office, with these people, look like vile perversion. To propose that Bob Benson is a spy is, frankly, to dance on Dutch Reagan’s grave. If you suspect Bob, you suspect the backbone of American commerce. If you suspect Bob, you suspect opportunity itself."

Although I am, of course, more than happy to dance on  Dutch's grave.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 4, 2013)

could it be possible that Bob Benson is a mole? and if so, for whom? 
I got the feeling that he, not Ginsburg, did something to sabotage the account with (who was the account with? I forget...whoever they went to go meet with anyway)


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 4, 2013)

belboid said:


> are you joking? He just made himself even more of a cunt. Not quite sure why the partner whose name I am totally unfamiliar with would berate him one second and then send him off on a merry jaunt the next.
> 
> 
> didnt he say something about Don not being his name when he was talking to one of the hippy chicks in California (just before 'Megan' turned up. Fucks knows what that was all about>


 

he said it while he was kissing the blonde party hostess in his hallucination while he was drowning.
so, (in his mind) he kissed her, she called him Don, he said "That's not my name" as if she should have known that, and then Megan tapped him on the shoulder


----------



## Silva (Jun 4, 2013)

"this is my stop"


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 6, 2013)

belboid said:


> did you check? Guardian blog agrees with your initial belief.
> 
> Also - OMG!!! Megan is Sharon Tate! Shit...
> http://www.tomandlorenzo.com/2013/05/mad-style-the-better-half.html


 

re: the Sharon Tate stuff, I felt that the hippy chick at the party (the one hanging out with "Danny" the short guy, who punched Roger in the balls) looked like one of the Manson girls.
I get the feeling that all the Sharon Tate reference will end up being a red herring. Sure, Megan might die, but I don't think she'll be randomly, viciously murdered by a psychopath somehow.
I'm probably wrong though. 

ugh, honestly I can't wait for her to go, and not just because she's a bad actress. They try so hard to make us see how her and Don complement each other, their "connection" but it just seems crazy that they're still together. It's like a bad arranged marriage between an old guy and a teenager, who don't even seem to like each other. Ick


----------



## madamv (Jun 6, 2013)

Im with you there Miss C.    I liked Megan but she seems to have lost her balls.  Maybe she will run off and join the Peace Corps.  

Don is annoying me beyond belief, Joan is acting out of character, Sterling and Peggy seem to be the only main characters who are still their original or progressed selves.  Pete can disappear up his own asshole, that guy is such a dweeb.

Lovin it


----------



## Silva (Jun 8, 2013)

I thnk Joan is acting out of character because she still has to realise what her character truly is. It seems everyone else takes shots at her for Jaguar, and even if she is a partner, she has a tough time explaining outsiders what she does (well, excluding being the one keeping everything from falling apart).


----------



## madamv (Jun 9, 2013)

But that is precisely what Joan does.  She's the all seeing eye; the fixer.

Not the fuckerupper


----------



## Silva (Jun 9, 2013)

The problem is that everyone in that company is so self-absorbed they fail to realize that. Joan is fucking up because she wants to be more than the girl who got a partnership by working the night shift, not by sheer egoism like everyone else.


----------



## madamv (Jun 9, 2013)

Yup..  maybe Peggy is the only one who can see it but their relationship is complex too.  I look forward to swing how Joan progresses as a result of this.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 10, 2013)

Spoiler



bob benson


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> he said it while he was kissing the blonde party hostess in his hallucination while he was drowning.
> so, (in his mind) he kissed her, she called him Don, he said "That's not my name" as if she should have known that, and then Megan tapped him on the shoulder


Ta.  I couldn't  - and still cant to an extent - work out how much of that whole scene was meant to have really happened and how much was just another drug fucked dream. I dont really think there was much value to that whole bit, almost seemed like Weiner was just teasing us with a party very like the one where Sharon Tate died.



madamv said:


> Don is annoying me beyond belief, Joan is acting out of character, Sterling and Peggy seem to be the only main characters who are still their original or progressed selves. Pete can disappear up his own asshole, that guy is such a dweeb.


Sterling and Cooper are both still their former selves, because they are the ones of an age not to give a shit bout the changes happening in America. They dont really affect S&C, they're already too rich, too established, to give a shit.  They just dont need to.  Peggy grows because she is the heart of the show, Don dithers because he is the personification of the sixties dilemmas, with all its split personalities. Pete is actually by far the best ad accounts man there, he knows how everything works and how everything is going. But because he is such an unlikeable shit.....he's a Cassandra


----------



## Silva (Jun 10, 2013)

OH GOD PETE HAS THE RIFLE OUT NEXT WEEK

(Which, considering how well edited "the next week on Mad Men" bit is, probably won't mean anything)


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

Yet again, quite an episode.  Poor Bob, it's not going to end well for him. (Yes, I've decided it's now him that's going to die, rather than Megan or Pete or anyone else.  Next week it will undoubtedly be someone else entirely.)


----------



## TruXta (Jun 10, 2013)

That was a real highlight of the season so far for me.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 10, 2013)

Pete is gay. 

Sally's damaged goods.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 10, 2013)

What's the spoiler etiquette in here?


----------



## little_legs (Jun 10, 2013)

There isn't one. If anyone is offended, it's too late. 2 episodes left, suck it up, folks.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 10, 2013)

belboid said:


> a man without a past. A man with a repeated initial. Such men are never to be trusted.


 
This got me thinking again after watching _Favors_. BB is no spy. BB is a nice-guy version of DD.


----------



## Silva (Jun 10, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Pete is gay.
> 
> Sally's damaged goods.


 

Pete doesn't even know what to think anymore. He'll probably go through an existential crisis in the next season after his mom dies and leaves him with alone and with nothing, and take the brown acid with Bob at Woodstock. The end.

Sally liked Don a lot more than she liked Betty. The poor girl might have 4 parents, but now has no "home" no speak of.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 11, 2013)

TruXta said:


> What's the spoiler etiquette in here?


 
if its been broadcast, its ok


----------



## little_legs (Jun 11, 2013)

Silva said:


> Sally liked Don a lot more than she liked Betty. The poor girl might have 4 parents, but now has no "home" no speak of.


 
Indeed. And a psycho grandmother. I was also thinking that she saw Roger last year with Megan's mother and now Don. I can't imagine what this does to a child's mind.


----------



## Silva (Jun 11, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Indeed. And a psycho grandmother. I was also thinking that she saw Roger last year with Megan's mother and now Don. I can't imagine what this does to a child's mind.


 
I wonder if Sally will turn out to be just like his dad. 

I think the worst of it is that Megan, for all defects she has, cared for Sally a lot more than Betty and Don ever did (and now that I recall, what turned Don to suddenly marry her wasn't that he she was great with the kids?). She's already from a broken home, and after seeing Don fooling around, she thinks she might lose the only "parent" that doesn't treat her like a 6 year old. Not to mention she mostly blamed Betty for the breakup, and now has witnessed Don first-hand.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 12, 2013)

ok, so was Manolo (?) the nurse seducing Pete's mother? I'm very confused about that.
I found this episode a bit clunky and awkward, starting from the first scene with Roger's juggling, and was disappointed with the Bob reveal. The whole thing is that he's gay? Really? Haven't we done this before? 


poor Sally. I hope we get some sense of what happened after that in the next episode, instead of a focus shift to a completely different story line like MM is fond of doing.


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## Silva (Jun 12, 2013)

In MM fashion, I think Bob will be something else. Well, still gay, but there might be another angle to it. I mean, Pete is a little shit and has annoyed a lot of people. I can imagine someone wanting to mess up his head.

I'm also unsure of what Manolo did. If he is a gigolo, or just as escort. And, if he's a gigolo, was his father gay? Or was "nursing him to health" another of his lies?

What would be funny is if the story about Bob's dad was just a continuity fuck up and he's really just a nice guy


----------



## little_legs (Jun 12, 2013)

Silva said:


> I wonder if Sally will turn out to be just like his dad.


 
That's exactly what I had in mind when I said _Sally's damaged goods_. Like her dad, Sally's introduction to the world of adult sex is both frightening and damaging. I’ve never experienced catching someone in the act of you know what (and I would wager that neither have the majority of people) but it would seem almost impossible that both Sally and Don can fully recover from this.

About Manolo: he didn't _do_ anything. Pete's mother, who's got Alzheimer's, thinks that Manolo is in love with her but he isn't because to begin with he is not into women and he has done nothing to indicate romantic or malicious intent towards Pete's mom.


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## little_legs (Jun 12, 2013)

Hang on a sec, I think you guys are saying 'why did Pete call Manolo a degenerate and fired him'. If that's what you are saying, it's easy: it's usually the secretly gay guys who are the most disgusted by gay behavior.


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## Dillinger4 (Jun 13, 2013)

It's a Freudian Primal Scene


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## little_legs (Jun 13, 2013)

Dillinger4


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## madamv (Jun 13, 2013)

I love the look of Jim Cutler.  He looks so of the era... A real cool daddy-o...


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 14, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Hang on a sec, I think you guys are saying 'why did Pete call Manolo a degenerate and fired him'. If that's what you are saying, it's easy: it's usually the secretly gay guys who are the most disgusted by gay behavior.


 

I was actually asking if Manolo had indeed been engaging in GILF action with Pete's mom  because it really did seem to me like that's what was happening. 
I'm still very confused and suspicious about Bob and Manolo.


----------



## madamv (Jun 14, 2013)

I think Pete's mum is fantasizing and Bob and manolo are gay.   Manolo obviously makes Pete's mum feel special. Part of his way, a genuinely caring nurse.


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## Superdupastupor (Jun 17, 2013)

geez  .  what a strange, lonely, unhappy show.

impeding sense of doom.


----------



## Silva (Jun 17, 2013)

Draper might be a dick, but he's kind of right with Peggy and Ted. Sure, he might have been taking the chance to backstab along the way, but Ted's infatuation with Peggy was the only reason he accepted a 3-fold increase on the budget without notifying the client first, and run an incredibly expensive casting call on company funds. Draper knows all about thinking with the wrong head, and right now is feeling the true consequences of it. I think that's the only reason why he stepped in, knows where that road ultimately ends, and that Ted isn't an asshole enough to deal with it.

The Bob reveal was a bit lame. Kind of expected a bit more mileage out of it, but maybe even the writers weren't expecting the huge speculation over it. And poor Ken. From the only "normal" person on that company, he's now Pirate Cyclops. But hey, at least he's not dead.

Oh, and Bert calling out Pete, the little shit


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

I was so sure Ken had had his head blown off  Not as crazy as last episode, but still hugely interesting to watch Don sink further into the pits of despair.


----------



## belboid (Jun 18, 2013)

Oh my god they've killed


off the mystery of Bob.


Pete once again shows he is about the only character who actually learns from his mistakes! Another brilliant performance from Vincent Kartheisier. Best actor in the show.



belboid said:


> Poor Bob, it's not going to end well for him. (Yes, I've decided it's now him that's going to die, rather than Megan or Pete or anyone else. Next week it will undoubtedly be someone else entirely.)


Well, I got a tiny bit of that right.

There's only one way for this season to end now.

Don must get his Dick out.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

I like the way they've humanised Pete so much over the course of this season. What could've been a damp squib wrt Bob Benson turned into a nice window into a man that's not all stupid evil and low cunning.


----------



## belboid (Jun 18, 2013)

His evil has never been stupid (well, except when it relates to his penis - irl Vincent is about to marry the woman who played his lover Beth, btw), even if it isn't always well planned. And he is still pretty damned low with his mother.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

belboid said:


> His evil has never been stupid (well, except when it relates to his penis - irl Vincent is about to marry the woman who played his lover Beth, btw), even if it isn't always well planned. And he is still pretty damned low with his mother.


Well, there's a lot of bad penises in this show  Didn't know that he was getting married. I can see Kartheiser having  a long and illustrious career, like a more rounded C. Walken maybe? Or is that just the haircut?


----------



## belboid (Jun 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Well, there's a lot of bad penises in this show  Didn't know that he was getting married. I can see Kartheiser having a long and illustrious career, like a more rounded C. Walken maybe? Or is that just the haircut?


it's going to be really difficult for him to move on, no one will be able to see him as anything but Pete the slimeball. Apparently he played Angel's evil vampiric offspring in the series of that name, which just doesn't seem right.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

I dunno, I reckon he'll have an easier time transitioning out than Jon Hamm for instance.


----------



## belboid (Jun 18, 2013)

I doubt that - check out their respective careers whilst filming MM.  Hamm has had The Town, Howl Sucker Punch, Bridesmaids, several other decent size hits.  VK has had Rango.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

Using facts to shoot down my suppositions? How very dare you!


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 18, 2013)

disgusting

I don't see Pete Campbell as this evil slimeball that everyone else seems to see

He is just a bit rubbish at being a human being


----------



## belboid (Jun 18, 2013)

a 'blue blood' rapist with an innate feeling of superiority over everyone else. hmmm...


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 18, 2013)

belboid said:


> a 'blue blood' rapist with an innate feeling of superiority over everyone else. hmmm...


 

his sense of superiority derives from knowing that he is absolutely inferior to everybody around him. If he was actually any good he would be a monster, but as it stands he is more pathetic than evil


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

The thing is Pete is good - he knows his shit wrt work. It's just people he's shit with, and his acknowledgment of his own stupidity makes him lash out.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 18, 2013)

But that's why I don't see him as evil. He is reacting to his own neurosis rather than proactively bad. He is probably the most tragic character on the show.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> [...] his own neurosis rather than proactively bad [...]


 
Don't they all do that? Don, Sterling, Pete.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 18, 2013)

That's true. I think I just pity him more than anything.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> That's true. I think I just pity him more than anything.


Of late, or you have since the start?


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Of late, or you have since the start?


 

More so of late, but from the start really. Or at least about series 3.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

Make up your mind for god's sake.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 18, 2013)

no


----------



## belboid (Jun 18, 2013)

in the first season or two he was by far the most obviously shitty character, without any apparent charms to offset his shittiness.  Since then, everyone else has gone downhill a bit, while he has.....probably stayed the same, which makes him seem better.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 18, 2013)




----------



## Silva (Jun 18, 2013)

belboid said:


> it's going to be really difficult for him to move on, no one will be able to see him as anything but Pete the slimeball. Apparently he played Angel's evil vampiric offspring in the series of that name, which just doesn't seem right.


I was a big Angel fan back then. It was just _weird_ to see Kartheiser as a slick 60's Madison Avenue executive at first. If he's given roles he can grow into, he shouldn't have any problem continuing his career. 



TruXta said:


> I dunno, I reckon he'll have an easier time transitioning out than Jon Hamm for instance.


 
Hamm is actually quite versatile. He could move into a 23-minute comedy series for a bit just to clean the Draper out of him quite easily.



belboid said:


> in the first season or two he was by far the most obviously shitty character, without any apparent charms to offset his shittiness. Since then, everyone else has gone downhill a bit, while he has.....probably stayed the same, which makes him seem better.


 
Well, Roger is still Roger. A 20-year old at heart.

I think this was the first time Pete realised it would be better to keep it to himself, and try to work things out for his own good instead of plotting to overthrow anyone above him. He had dirt on Draper (shot down after the partners aren't interested at all, probably the reason Bert dislikes him), on his father-in-law (lost a big money account AND his marriage) and now has on Bob. But decided to play the game and setting his own rules.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 18, 2013)

Don't get me wrong, I think Hamm is a decent actor.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 19, 2013)

Silva said:


> I was a big Angel fan back then. It was just _weird_ to see Kartheiser as a slick 60's Madison Avenue executive at first. If he's given roles he can grow into, he shouldn't have any problem continuing his career.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I get a kick out of watching Hamm's scenes in Bridesmaids now ( "Boom! What's up, fuckbuddy?")  because both characters are slimeballs but one is so completely moronic and the other has seemingly endless depth. He's really versatile.

Roger is more like what a 20 year old thinks a 75 year old imagines a 20 year old to be, if that makes any sense 

I'm so glad Bob isn't "just gay"


----------



## belboid (Jun 22, 2013)

omg!  Sod Megan being Sharon Tate - Don is Rosemary! (she of the baby)

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/don-draper-is-rosemary-from-rosemarys-baby.html


----------



## Silva (Jun 24, 2013)

So, uuuuh...


Spoiler



Is Don finally coming to terms with Dick? It seems he has realised he has realised he can't look into the future with his past dragging him back. And why he went from a Kodak Caroussel moment with Hershey to the full Whitman. And why he took his kids to his old house. I think Sally calling him out on lying really got to him. He might have lost his job and Megan (who, to be honest, has been more a nuisance than a proper character this season), but he really doesn't want to lose Sally. Also, Pete tried to play smart for once, but was eaten alive by Bob with the stick-shift move. And now, the question: is he actually gay, or was just rocking Pete back and forth with mind games to make him tumble? But if he is, is he preparing to do the same with Joan?


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 24, 2013)

WOAH spoilers please. 

And I am not usually bothered by spoilers.


----------



## Silva (Jun 24, 2013)

Argh, sorry. Thought I had put the spoiler tag, but apparently it doesn't work with paragraphs.


----------



## belboid (Jun 24, 2013)

Silva said:


> So, uuuuh...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


well, quite an ending. Dicks return has been coming all season, it had to be. I hope we stop having the crap flashbacks now.

No real answers in that finale, but a hell of a lot of interesting questions.

Like, who the hell has gone to California? They can't both have, surely.

Ohh, and, yes, Bob is definitely gay.  Even in groovy Madison Avenue, you wouldn't make that up back then, in those pre-Stonewall days.


----------



## belboid (Jun 24, 2013)

and, and....is that baby really Roger's?  I thought it was actually her husbands, so why is she letting Roger be almost a dad?  A bit of a rubbish note for her season to end on, not being the only new partner left (just her and the three old guard will still be in NY), or having won the avon account (Weiner said in a post series interview she definitely had, and we should have been able to work it out for ourselves), but having a man in her life.  Sort of.


----------



## Silva (Jun 25, 2013)

belboid said:


> and, and....is that baby really Roger's? I thought it was actually her husbands, so why is she letting Roger be almost a dad? A bit of a rubbish note for her season to end on, not being the only new partner left (just her and the three old guard will still be in NY), or having won the avon account (Weiner said in a post series interview she definitely had, and we should have been able to work it out for ourselves), but having a man in her life. Sort of.


 
I think it was implied the kid could not be Greg's because he had been on service the weeks before.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 25, 2013)

belboid said:


> Like, who the hell has gone to California? They can't both have, surely..


 
Both?
Ted has gone to LA. Don is on leave. Peggy is doing Don's job.
What do you mean?


----------



## belboid (Jun 25, 2013)

Ted & Pete. Two partners? Especially when a third will also be absent, seems like crazy management.

And who's looking after Chevy?  _Bob?_


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

yeah totally did not get why Pete went to Cali also. This is what frustrates me about MM. plots often don't add up. Either that or they just drop completely.


----------



## Epona (Jun 25, 2013)

Pete wasn't going to Cali, he was going to somewhere else (Detroit presumably as I think that's where GM/Chevrolet were based in the late '60s?) to be the local guy for Chevy (after whatsisface pulled out having taken a shotgun blast in the face) - surely?

Ted is going to California
Pete is going to Michigan
Don has been told to go on leave until he gets his shit together.  Not sure he ever knew where all his shit was to be able to get it together, but as I understand it, that's the lay of the land at the end of the season.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

Epona said:


> Pete wasn't going to Cali, he was going to somewhere else (Detroit presumably as I think that's where GM/Chevrolet were based in the late '60s?) to be the local guy for Chevy (after whatsisface pulled out having taken a shotgun blast in the face) - surely?


 

I would believe you and doubt myself (having basically imagined I'd seen something in a video that totally didn't happen, just a few minutes ago   ) if it weren't for the fact that pretty much everyone else on the 'net including tv journalists seems to think he did.  
when Trudy was talking to him, telling him he is getting a fresh start, etc, and then when he had that poignant watching his kid sleep moment before he left...? I'm pretty sure they were talking about California, and I really doubt it would be such a big deal if he were just going to Detroit to work on a campaign for a while. kenny was travelling back and forth pretty frequently.


----------



## Epona (Jun 25, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> I would believe you and doubt myself (having basically imagined I'd seen something in a video that totally didn't happen, just a few minutes ago  ) if it weren't for the fact that pretty much everyone else on the 'net including tv journalists seems to think he did.
> when Trudy was talking to him, telling him he is getting a fresh start, etc, and then when he had that poignant watching his kid sleep moment before he left...? I'm pretty sure they were talking about California, and I really doubt it would be such a big deal if he were just going to Detroit to work on a campaign for a while. kenny was travelling back and forth pretty frequently.


 
So what was all that shit about last week (in the penultimate episode) where he was fucked off about going to handle the chevy contract and be based in Detroit because he was told he had to take Bob with him (he wanted to go by himself), because Bob is gay and he's scared of him? I don't get where it comes from that Pete is going to Cali, because in the penultimate episode it was agreed that he would handle Chevy and that Bob would go with him, which caused much consternation with Pete about living arrangements (although I long to see Pete come out of the closet next season, that might be an unrealistic expectation on my part). I sometimes think I'm the only one actually paying attention!


----------



## Yu_Gi_Oh (Jun 25, 2013)

Epona said:


> So what was all that shit about last week (in the penultimate episode) where he was fucked off about going to handle the chevy contract and be based in Detroit because he was told he had to take Bob with him (he wanted to go by himself), because Bob is gay and he's scared of him? I don't get where it comes from that Pete is going to Cali, because in the penultimate episode it was agreed that he would handle Chevy and that Bob would go with him, which caused much consternation with Pete about living arrangements (although I long to see Pete come out of the closet next season, that might be an unrealistic expectation on my part). I sometimes think I'm the only one actually paying attention!


 

But Pete came back from Detroit after that fuck-up with the car and basically said that him and Detroit were over and he needed to find somewhere to live in New York again, since he'd already let-out his place in anticipation of moving.  Then later in the episode it is strongly suggested he is moving to Cali, which leads to the goodbye scenes with him, Trudy and Tammy.


----------



## Silva (Jun 25, 2013)

Pete arrived earlier than expected from Chevy, and judging from the reaction when he knocked down the sign for not knowing how to drive stick just moments after trying to pass as a car expert, I think they don't want him anymore. Bob stays with Chevy, Pete goes to Cali with Ted.

Also, Ted is a creative director, Pete is an account executive (and will probably be head of accounts in SC&P West), so they're not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

Silva said:


> Pete arrived earlier than expected from Chevy, and judging from the reaction when he knocked down the sign for not knowing how to drive stick just moments after trying to pass as a car expert, I think they don't want him anymore. Bob stays with Chevy, Pete goes to Cali with Ted.
> 
> Also, Ted is a creative director, Pete is an account executive (and will probably be head of accounts in SC&P West), so they're not mutually exclusive.


 

aha. and Ted couldn't have gone if Don had gone, because they only need one...which is also why Stan couldn't go? I think that's why I was confused...it seemed like there was "just one spot" in California, for anyone.
But now that makes sense. Also, the title "In Care Of" now I get it  (eta: do you have that expression in the UK?
Through someone, by way of someone, as in I sent the gift in care of your parents . This phrase indicates that something is to be delivered to someone at someone else's address. [Mid-1800s] Also see in charge,def. 3. )


----------



## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

An interesting finale. In _A Tale of Two Cities_, LA was positioned as the obvious loser when it stood up against NY. Roger makes it clear that the 2 cities are locked into _us and them _concept, and that the world of LA is so remote from the world of Mad Men's NY set up that chasing accounts in LA is nothing but a waste of time. In the finale, however, just about everyone wants to get the hell out of NY and take the demotion in the _'sunny, open windows, no hassle, where everyone shares'_ LA.

I am guessing Don has had the need to come out for a while now. For me, it really started in the episode when Joan was coerced into spending a night with the Jaguar fatso. Everything he did from then on, like lashing out against the lies of clients and colleagues was like lashing out against his own self who in spite of seeing all the wrong he did to himself and others still failed to become a better man. It especially came through in his pitches and conversations with clients during which he in some way or another infuriated everyone. Of course because of Don't secretive and combative nature, the partners could not see where he was coming from and his behavior was seen as egotistical.

The pitch for Hershey's was fucking painful because none of the partners felt the need to comfort him, all they were interested in is money. For fuck's sake, in pursuit of money, Ted suggests Don have a drink because he sounds better liquored up. The pitch was in some way similar to Don's pitch for Kodak, but at least during that pitch they had Harry Crane in tears. I have to say that Hamm did an excellent job in bearing his soul in the soulless boardroom. And I will also admit here that I had no idea about Milton Hershey's orphan school, I've learned about it from this episode. I've no idea how far this road to redemption goes for Don because he tends to recognize his errors and the next thing you know he goes and does the wrong thing again, but putting Sally in a horrible position has had something to do with it. The question is: where does Don go from here?

I am pretty certain Joan knows Bob is gay. Ironically, Roger fails to see it _'I see what you are up to. Playing with Mrs Harris' feelings is not going to get you anywhere!'_.  I am not sure I like Bob anymore, the whole season he's been spouting quotes from self-help and sales pitch books trying to push my Pete out. Though I wonder if he inadvertently did Pete a favor. Pushing him out to LA is probably the best thing for Pete. It's good to see that Trudy is wise to see it too: _You’re free. You are free of her [Dot], you are free of them, you are free of everything._

Pete remains my favorite character on the show. With all his flaws, Pete is the most human character on the show, he is me, he is you, he is all of us, that's what makes him so compelling.

I hope fate throws Peggy back to Abe, I want to feel the satisfaction of knowing that a socialist can be in love with a capitalist, that love can conquer everything.

I was disappointed Ginsberg (my favorite martian) was not in the finale.

Peggy's pants suit was I think the first time she wore pants on the show, talk about euphemisms and a follow up to a nightie.

Interesting how at the end of this episode, Duck Phillips who made pretty short but memorable statements about a man and his family earlier, shows up to make the same point to Don by bringing his replacement to SC&P.

The character that I can't stand is pervy Jim Cutler, that ugly Thuderbirds puppet lookalike. Just eugh!


----------



## Epona (Jun 25, 2013)

Silva said:


> Pete arrived earlier than expected from Chevy, and judging from the reaction when he knocked down the sign for not knowing how to drive stick just moments after trying to pass as a car expert, I think they don't want him anymore. Bob stays with Chevy, Pete goes to Cali with Ted.
> 
> Also, Ted is a creative director, Pete is an account executive (and will probably be head of accounts in SC&P West), so they're not mutually exclusive.


 
Ah now that kind of makes sense. Pete should have just bluffed that one out making excuses, and asked a mate to sit with him in a car while he gets used to a manual clutch before his next appearance - it's hardly bloody rocket science and wouldn't have required more than an hour in a parking lot somewhere.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

Nice to see the MM fans are awake at this hour.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

little_legs said:


> And interesting finale. In _A Tale of Two Cities_, LA was positioned as the obvious loser when it stood up against NY. Roger makes it clear that the 2 cities are locked into _us and them _concept, and that the world of LA is so remote from the world of Mad Men's NY set up that chasing accounts in LA is nothing but a waste of time. In the finale, however, just about everyone wants to get the hell out of NY and take the demotion in the _'sunny, open windows, no hassle, where everyone shares'_ LA.
> 
> I am guessing Don has had the need to come out for a while now. For me, it really started in the episode when Joan was coerced into spending a night with the Jaguar fatso. Everything he did from then on, like lashing out against the lies of clients and colleagues was like lashing out against his own self who in spite of seeing all the wrong he did to himself and others still failed to become a better man. It especially came through in his pitches and conversations with clients during which he in some way or another infuriated everyone. Of course because of Don't secretive and combative nature, the partners could not see where he was coming from and his behavior was seen as egotistical.
> 
> ...


 

nice analysis there  
I am also sad about ginsberg...he's one of my favorites too. I highly doubt Peggy will ever see Abe again. That was a definitive break-up if I've ever seen one. Plus I think she's realized what she wants is so different from what he wants. I think Peggy's not meant to find happiness in a relationship. Her symbolism would be lost, as she's meant to represent both why feminism and women's rights were necessary, and also what they gained for women (i.e. finding fulfillment outside of the home/ family)


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Nice to see the MM fans are awake at this hour.


 
I know! What's up with that?     In fact, many of my posts have gotten responses tonight. (I'm in the US and normally have to wait until the next day to get any replies...for this thread it's usually a few _days_)


----------



## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> nice analysis there
> I am also sad about ginsberg...he's one of my favorites too. I highly doubt Peggy will ever see Abe again. That was a definitive break-up if I've ever seen one. Plus I think she's realized what she wants is so different from what he wants. I think Peggy's not meant to find happiness in a relationship. Her symbolism would be lost, as she's meant to represent both why feminism and women's rights were necessary, and also what they gained for women (i.e. finding fulfillment outside of the home/ family)


 
You are too kind, MC. 

You are probably right about Peggy not reuniting with Abe although that would bring a massive 'awww' out of me but I know that's not how Weiner operates. You are certainly spot on about her symbolism but please, Matt Weiner, can we have love for Peggy on the cards next season.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> I know! What's up with that?  In fact, many of my posts have gotten responses tonight. (I'm in the US and normally have to wait until the next day to get any replies...for this thread it's usually a few _days_)


 
It has to be the giant moon. I am off to bed now though, driving lesson in 3 hours. x


----------



## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

little_legs said:


> It has to be the giant moon. I am off to bed now though, driving lesson in 3 hours. x


 

yikes! good luck


----------



## Silva (Jun 25, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> aha. and Ted couldn't have gone if Don had gone, because they only need one...which is also why Stan couldn't go? I think that's why I was confused...it seemed like there was "just one spot" in California, for anyone.
> But now that makes sense. Also, the title "In Care Of" now I get it  (eta: do you have that expression in the UK?
> Through someone, by way of someone, as in I sent the gift in care of your parents . This phrase indicates that something is to be delivered to someone at someone else's address. [Mid-1800s] Also see in charge,def. 3. )


 
IIRC, print advertising has four basic positions: creative director (oversees the whole project). artist (does the artwork) copywriter (copy AKA text) and an account executive (works the business side). Don offered to bring Stan (who's an artist) at a later date, so before the LA money started to roll in, they would probably work with a CD and a AE, with copy and art done and sent from NY.

If I had to guess, in the next season SC&P has Ted, Pete and Harry (although I'm not sure if TV on the West Coast was that developed on the late 60's) on LA, on the mothership Cutler and Roger running accounts with Cosgrove, Peggy as CD with Stan and Ginsberg under her. The interesting part is the Chevy Vega (the car Bob is now working on) was a huge failure.

I'm also wondering if Kinsey, knowing his former bosses are in town (assuming he ever made it to LA) won't try to get back to advertising.



Epona said:


> Ah now that kind of makes sense. Pete should have just bluffed that one out making excuses, and asked a mate to sit with him in a car while he gets used to a manual clutch before his next appearance - it's hardly bloody rocket science and wouldn't have required more than an hour in a parking lot somewhere.


It's Pete. Bob pretty much knew that he feels threatened by him, and wouldn't back down from a challenge, even one where he'd certainly make an ass of himself.
I kinda feel sorry for Pete. The first time he doesn't try to gain something from embarassing information, he's played into harming himself.


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## belboid (Jun 25, 2013)

Silva said:


> Also, Ted is a creative director, Pete is an account executive (and will probably be head of accounts in SC&P West), so they're not mutually exclusive.


but they are two _partners_ on an account that's not that big.  It would have been a demotion to send _Stan_, so to send two out of seven of your top top people is mad.  Especially when you've just dumped a third partner.  That's half the team suddenly gone from NY, and they were meant to be busy as hell.  Sorry, but that just makes no sense. Ted would have been able to talk people into letting him go, but Pete?  No chance.


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## belboid (Jun 25, 2013)

little_legs said:


> For fuck's sake, in pursuit of money, Ted suggests Don have a drink because he sounds better liquored up.


He didnt. He suggested it because he knew - thanks to his father - what happens to alcoholics who quit too suddenly, it can be highly dangerous. The fact that it helped him deliver a great pitch was purely coincidental.



> The pitch was in some way similar to Don's pitch for Kodak, but at least during that pitch they had Harry Crane in tears.


much of the whole episode was a counterpoint to the previous episodes, from the mirror image presentation to how Peggy is sitting, to the way everyone was looking at the house (into the past) at the end, v how everyone was looking out the window (into the future) at the end of 5.  All very neatly done.


> but putting Sally in a horrible position has had something to do with it. The question is: where does Don go from here?


Sally is the one females Don actually cares about, the only one. When Betty gave him that wake up call about her, he knew it had to change, that he had to change. He'll do whatever it takes to get her back, but to do that he must stop lying, and all advertising is is...



> I am pretty certain Joan knows Bob is gay.


She's known for ages.  When he was round before she said something to her mother about him not being interested in that way, she had totally sussed him.

Bob (or whoever it is plays him) has a big starring role coming up in the autumn, so its unlikely he'll get much time for the next season, shame, he could become even more interesting.



> I hope fate throws Peggy back to Abe, I want to feel the satisfaction of knowing that a socialist can be in love with a capitalist, that loves can conquer everything.


no chance, they're through, Abe was mostly a useful conduit into the counter-culture, there is no need for him any more.



> I was disappointed Ginsberg (my favorite martian) was not in the finale.


the one big mess, deffo. The questions over his mental health have just been left dangling, which is a bit annoying. Too many previously important characters seem to be just thrown in for light relief now.



> The character that I can't stand is pervy Jim Cutler, that ugly Thuderbirds puppet lookalike. Just eugh!


He's horrid, isnt he?  What's notable at the end is who's left. The old guard, the original bosses Roger, Bert and Cutler, with the new breed of Pete and Ted isolated in lousy LA, Don out on his ear.  Only Joan has actually broken through and stayed there.  After all the changes we've seen in the sixties, with the new breed coming to throw the old ways away, brush them aside and start afresh...it's the old guard who remain in power (just as Nixon is elected, of course).  Nothing changes.  Okay, there's a woman there (and a female Creative Director) but it's the woman Roger has been tying to corrupt and manipulate the entire show, and one who is only half taken seriously.  Essentially, the old guard have still won.

How it goes next season...fuck knows. Surely Don cant go back?  But where the hell else can he go?  Hawaii?


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## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

belboid said:


> He didnt. He suggested it because he knew - thanks to his father - what happens to alcoholics who quit too suddenly, it can be highly dangerous. The fact that it helped him deliver a great pitch was purely coincidental.


 
Alcohol didn't help deliver a great pitch though, did it? I'll concede that maybe Ted suggested the drink to stave off the symptoms of chronic alcoholism during the pitch, but fuck that frankly. If he had any sympathy for Don, he would have suggested Don goes to an AA meeting or sees a specialist. He suggested the drink out of selfishness and you will remember that during the pitch Ted was completely consumed by the thoughts of putting himself as far away from his mistress as possible. It's probably high time that I've admitted that despite my earlier statements that Ted is what the show needed, he proved to be quite a douche in the end.



> much of the whole episode was a counterpoint to the previous episodes, from the mirror image presentation to how Peggy is sitting, to the way everyone was looking at the house (into the past) at the end, v how everyone was looking out the window (into the future) at the end of 5. All very neatly done.


 
I am not sure I follow.



> Sally is the one females Don actually cares about, the only one. When Betty gave him that wake up call about her, he knew it had to change, that he had to change. He'll do whatever it takes to get her back, but to do that he must stop lying, and all advertising is is...


 
Of course, he cares about Sally but IMHO she isn't the only female he cares about. I think he cares about Betty too. He called her _Birdie_ for the first time since the divorce in this conversation. And he agreed to pick up Sally after Betty delivered a killer line which concisely describes what Don's been trying to do all season 'the good is not beating the bad'.



> She's known for ages. When he was round before she said something to her mother about him not being interested in that way, she had totally sussed him.


 
If your wardrobe includes the shorts and apron Bob wore this season, if you look like Barbie's partner Ken, and if, like Joan, you have the experince in working in retail, you know she knows.



> Bob (or whoever it is plays him) has a big starring role coming up in the autumn, so its unlikely he'll get much time for the next season, shame, he could become even more interesting.


 
I didn't know about the new role coming up for that actor, but I wondered how the GM execs would react if and when they found out about Bob's sexuality.



> there is no need for him any more.


 
Take that back!



> ...it's the old guard who remain in power (just as Nixon is elected, of course). Nothing changes. Okay, there's a woman there (and a female Creative Director) but it's the woman Roger has been tying to corrupt and manipulate the entire show, and one who is only half taken seriously. Essentially, the old guard have still won.


 
True, but only for a short while in Dick Nixon's case, right? So we know that even those who think their position is cemented can be reduced to the biggest losers. As for Joan, I don't mind that she is not taken seriously by any of the partners. In fact, the scene where Harry tells it like it is was one of the best pieces of courage on TV.



> How it goes next season...fuck knows. Surely Don cant go back? But where the hell else can he go? Hawaii?


 
I wonder if Duck Phillips is going to approach Don with an offer. Did you notice the guy he brought to SC&P to replace Don was probably as old as Bert Cooper? This echoes your 'nothing changes' I guess. Alternatively, Don, in his quest to cultivate and preserve his relationshp with his kids, could pitch his ad skills to Henry and help him get elected.


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## belboid (Jun 25, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Alcohol didn't help deliver a great pitch though, did it? I'll concede that maybe Ted suggested the drink to stave off the symptoms of chronic alcoholism during the pitch, but fuck that frankly. If he had any sympathy for Don, he would have suggested Don goes to an AA meeting or sees a specialist. He suggested the drink out of selfishness and you will remember that during the pitch Ted was completely consumed by the thoughts of putting himself as far away from his mistress as possible. It's probably high time that I've admitted that despite my earlier statements that Ted is what the show needed, he proved to be quite a douche in the end.


I'm not so sure. Sure, he should have suggested something earlier, but it wasn't the drink that made Don fuck up the pitch (was that hand wobble from nerves or withdrawal?), he delivered it perfectly, but then just couldn't lie any more.  He told the story of such a perfect childhood it made him sick and he couldn't go on.  Without the drink, he'd just have been a bit rubbish, at best.



> I am not sure I follow.


compare and contrast:






and






I cant find a shot of _the shot_ of Peggy, but she sits _exactly_ like Don did earlier on when he was taking over the office.



> Of course, he cares about Sally but IMHO she isn't the only female he cares about. I think he cares about Betty too. He called her _Birdie_ for the first time since the divorce in this conversation. And he agreed to pick up Sally after Betty delivered a killer line which concisely describes what Don's been trying to do all season 'the good is not beating the bad'.


Yeah, he cares a bit about Betty, but he knows its all gone, its mainly a letting go of hatred rather than caring, imo.  Sally is his gal.



> If your wardrobe includes the shorts and apron Bob wore this season, if you look like Barbie's partner Ken, and if, like Joan, you have the experince in working in retail, you know she knows.


and just Joans experience of men generally.  She didnt know about Sal till she playfully kissed him, _then_ she knew.



> I didn't know about the new role coming up for that actor, but I wondered how the GM execs would react if and when they found out about Bob's sexuality.


absolutely, which is just one reason why there is no way he would have made such a thing up.



> Take that back!


sorry, he was fun, but a mere plot device.



> True, but only for a short while in Dick Nixon's case, right? So we know that even those who think their position is cemented can be reduced to the biggest losers. As for Joan, I don't mind that she is not taken seriously by any of the partners. In fact, the scene where Harry tells it like it is was one of the best pieces of courage on TV.


Really?  I thought it was a bit of pig headed ignorance, and chronic stupidity. Even if he had a point - and okay he did - he just blew any chance of ever getting a partnership with that rant.  Which I suppose is courageous in one way



> I wonder if Duck Phillips is going to approach Don with an offer. Did you notice the guy he brought to SC&P to replace Don was probably as old as Bert Cooper? This echoes your 'nothing changes' I guess. Alternatively, Don, in his quest to cultivate and preserve his relationshp with his kids, could pitch his ad skills to Henry and help him get elected.


mmm, interesting, that would be a kinda neat ending


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## Silva (Jun 25, 2013)

belboid said:


> but they are two _partners_ on an account that's not that big. It would have been a demotion to send _Stan_, so to send two out of seven of your top top people is mad. Especially when you've just dumped a third partner. That's half the team suddenly gone from NY, and they were meant to be busy as hell. Sorry, but that just makes no sense. Ted would have been able to talk people into letting him go, but Pete? No chance.


 
But Pete's relevance is waning. He lost his father-in-law account, and couldn't hold on to Chevy. Nobody seems to take him seriously (for a partner, he couldn't do shit when the others imposed Bob on him). Even if Roger is only there to work with the chummier accounts, Cutler can do his work. His mother just died, and Trudy wants nothing to do with him. 
For Pete, it's not a demotion. It's accepting he personally and professionally is done, and might well try to start over on the West Coast, and in that aspect, he might be the counterpoint to Ted, who's going to LA in order to save what he's got on a personal level.

And another thing: 



> The old guard, the original bosses Roger, Bert and Cutler, with the new breed of Pete and Ted isolated in lousy LA, Don out on his ear. Only Joan has actually broken through and stayed there. After all the changes we've seen in the sixties, with the new breed coming to throw the old ways away, brush them aside and start afresh...it's the old guard who remain in power (just as Nixon is elected, of course).


This could actually be one of the larger plot archs in the season finale: SC&P West, with all the new blood (except Peggy who might be turning into a milder Draper and Joan who's been there since forever) struggling to deal with the NY offices, with a Draper no longer haunted by his past as the wildcard.


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## belboid (Jun 25, 2013)

Silva said:


> But Pete's relevance is waning. He lost his father-in-law account, and couldn't hold on to Chevy. Nobody seems to take him seriously (for a partner, he couldn't do shit when the others imposed Bob on him). Even if Roger is only there to work with the chummier accounts, Cutler can do his work. His mother just died, and Trudy wants nothing to do with him.
> For Pete, it's not a demotion. It's accepting he personally and professionally is done, and might well try to start over on the West Coast, and in that aspect, he might be the counterpoint to Ted, who's going to LA in order to save what he's got on a personal level.


they didnt initially bother to send a partner to Detroit for chevy, a much bigger account (although one bound for failure, as the car they are selling is a dud), so to allow two partners to go out while losing a third just doesn't ring true to me, no matter how nice everyone can see it is for the individuals concerned. Of course it does give them the chance to start working up some new contracts with hollywood companies, which must make for big billing, but they've never talked about that, and its one hell of amove. Not something to decide overnight the night before thanksgiving (oh yeah, thanksgiving, thats another callback to the season 1 finale, Don running back to be with his family, too late.).



> This could actually be one of the larger plot archs in the season finale: SC&P West, with all the new blood (except Peggy who might be turning into a milder Draper and Joan who's been there since forever) struggling to deal with the NY offices, with a Draper no longer haunted by his past as the wildcard.


could be.  Everything is up in the air now.


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## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

belboid said:


> I'm not so sure. Sure, he should have suggested something earlier, but it wasn't the drink that made Don fuck up the pitch (was that hand wobble from nerves or withdrawal?), he delivered it perfectly, but then just couldn't lie any more. He told the story of such a perfect childhood it made him sick and he couldn't go on. Without the drink, he'd just have been a bit rubbish, at best.


But Don has had crap pitches after having a drink too, the man is a practically an alcoholic. Sure, the drink ultimately led to Don's choosing to stop lying about his past, and so in the long run, Ted possibly did him a favor. But in the short run, Don has lost his job, and that's why I hate Ted.

Interesting how the theme of inadvertent favors ran through this episode on the Thanksgiving Day. No one is thanking anyone for anything, but they will do later I would hope.

Thanks for posting the pics, it makes sense now. I completely agree with the parallels drawn here with Season 5. Well spotted. You know, when I saw the dilapidated house Dick grew up in, it reminded me of the house in _Fight Club_. I think it was also on the corner of some seedy neighborhood, looking as shabby as the one in _In Care Of_.

I think I know the shot of Peggy and Don you are referring to. When I saw her in Don's office, I just thought that whilst Peggy is undoubtedly a talented ad woman, she keeps moving into the office of alcoholics, first Freddy and now Don.


> Really? I thought it was a bit of pig headed ignorance, and chronic stupidity. Even if he had a point - and okay he did - he just blew any chance of ever getting a partnership with that rant. Which I suppose is courageous in one way


 
They would never offer Harry the partnership, because he couldn't afford the initial contribution. Plus, Harry isn't really an account man like Pete and Ken, he is more of a logistics man. This is why they shut him up with a bit of money, and patronized him like a woman when he threw the fit. Roger asked him: _So, Harry, how are the twins?_ It's the kind of a question that even these days would be ordinarily reserved for a female employee. He was absolutely right to get mad because of the vast revenue he brings and because he has probably estimated the level of the revenue TV will bring to SC&P in future. If you ask me, the only stupid thing he did was not having the balls to stick with his argument when he was summoned to Bert's office. Having made the hints, Harry is the prime candidate to run away from SC&P in the next season.

If you remember, when they offered Pete the partnership he nearly missed out because he assumed there was no way he could make the initial contribution. It was Trudy who made sure he was made a partner. And Ken rejected the offer outright because in the long run he probably sees himself leaving advertising like Rushdie to write books.

All junior staff made ballsy attempts to defeat the elders this season. Harry, Ken, Ginsberg. Even Stan, who seemed to share mutual respect with Don, stood up to him when he realised Don stole Stan's idea why he should go to LA.

About the tremors. They could be either drink or stress related. Betty had them in the beginning when she saw a psychologist.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

little_legs said:


> But Don has had crap pitches after having a drink too, the man is a practically an alcoholic. Sure, the drink ultimately led to Don's choosing to stop lying about his past, and so in the long run, Ted possibly did him a favor. But in the short run, Don has lost his job, and that's why I hate Ted.
> 
> 
> About the tremors. They could be either drink or stress related. Betty had them in the beginning when she saw a psychologist.


 

I agree with much of what you've said about other topics but have to disagree on these points I'm afraid.
Don is definitely an alcoholic, and the hand tremors were definitely from alcohol withdrawal.
Also, it is not in any way Ted's fault that Don lost his job. He told Don to take a drink for his own good because of watching people (his own father) withdraw from alcohol and knowing it's actually quite dangerous (possibly fatal) to just stop cold turkey...he was actually being kind/ caring towards Don even if it was partly so he wouldn't blow the pitch to Hershey's. I'm sure he would have had the same advice even if they weren't going into the meeting.
Ted might not be the best guy ever, but he's not a sociopath wishing alcoholism on Don or trying to get him fired or anything like that.
Also, it doesn't matter what anyone says, an alcoholic takes a drink because _they_ choose to, it's not someone else's fault (alcoholics are famous for blaming others for their actions "I drink because you ______ " )
and perhaps most importantly, this is where the whole season was headed. Don had to hit rock bottom, and to finally come out as Dick Whitman. It's not anyone's fault, certainly not Ted's, and it's not really a bad thing. It's what he needed...to get off the spinning wheel that kept him running in place.


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## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

Ok, I am probably not as articulate in expressing my thoughts here because my English is crap. But I just want to draw a line here. I agree that Ted's intentions were not inhumane, but I would much rather Don embarrassed himself and everyone by having a violent episode or whatever because that is what happened anyway. The client isn't coming back, the partners know _stuff_ about Don and he lost his job. He's done. The outcome, intended or unintended, is the same, folks.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 25, 2013)

little_legs said:


> Ok, I am probably not as articulate in expressing my thoughts here because my English is crap. But I just want to draw a line here. I agree that Ted's intentions were not inhumane, but I would much rather Don embarrassed himself and everyone by having a violent episode or whatever because that is what happened anyway. The client isn't coming back, the partners know _stuff_ about Don and he lost his job. He's done. The outcome, intended or unintended, is the same, folks.


 

if English is not your first language, I am very impressed. Either way I think you express yourself very well. However, I am still a little confused about what you think Ted had to do with Don's self-revelations during the meeting.


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## little_legs (Jun 25, 2013)

Miss Caphat said:


> if English is not your first language, I am very impressed. Either way I think you express yourself very well. However, I am still a little confused about what you think Ted had to do with Don's self-revelations during the meeting.


 
It's shit, but thank you. Everyone in that boardroom, bar Don, was there for selfish reasons. I blame Ted because he kept complaining for the most part of the season that Don wasn't doing anything, and in this instance Don was competing with him. And in my book, that makes him a twat that I choose to blame.


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## Reno (Jun 28, 2013)

Another great season. Bob emerged as the most intriguing character, plotting his way through the series like it was Game of Thrones. I wouldn't even be surprised if he wasn't gay, but if he was whatever he needs to be to get ahead.

One thing I hoped would develop further was Joan's attempt to reel in Avon. I thought there would be repercussions from Avon either getting back or not.

I'm glad there was more of Betty again. In the early seasons I found her the most interesting character. I still think January Jones is great in the role even though she seems to be pretty terrible in everything else I've seen her in.

I'm still in love with Megan and hope she'll be back in S07.

I'm not getting the love for Peter, I still find him fairly loathsome and he thoroughly deserves Trudy dumping him and Bob making his life hell.

If I have a problem with the end, I'm not sure I quite believed Don's Hershey pitch/confession. It struck me as too melodramatic for a series that tends to be so subtle, but I may change my mind if this is developed in the last season. I liked that several of the female characters finally come to a "not taking this shit anymore" point.

I've only just googled Mad Men and I can't believe people really thought this series would be as crass and OTT as having Megan Draper killed Manson style.  If you've watched this show for 5 seasons you should be aware by now that it isn't Lost.


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## Iguana (Jun 28, 2013)

little_legs said:


> For fuck's sake, in pursuit of money, Ted suggests Don have a drink because he sounds better liquored up.


That's not what happened in that scene. Don had the DTs from quitting alcohol cold turkey and Ted told him he'd need to have a drink as you can't just quit like that which he knew due to his father being an alcoholic.


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## little_legs (Jun 28, 2013)

Yeah right, and I am sure Ted did not vote Don out either.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 17, 2013)

Just caught up, having finished the boxed set.  So, why did Don suddenly blurt his past out?  I'm not convinced by that at all.


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