# Brixton news, rumour and general chat - June 2016



## SpamMisery (Jun 1, 2016)

> Lets continue barking at the symptoms of problems rather than the causes



June is here! Hurrah


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## T & P (Jun 1, 2016)

What's the weather outlook for June? Any chance of some sunshine?


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## SpamMisery (Jun 1, 2016)

T & P said:


> What's the weather outlook for June? Any chance of some sunshine?



Coldharbour Lane last June. Fact


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## Angellic (Jun 1, 2016)

London Rental Opportunity of the Week: A Windowless Prison in Brixton! | VICE | United Kingdom

How is this possible? ETA skylights.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 1, 2016)

June is already shit.


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## Greebo (Jun 1, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> June is already shit.


Summer clothes at the bottom of the heap - back into trainers and a fleece.


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## SpamMisery (Jun 1, 2016)

June's weather has so far been better than (the last day in) May


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## editor (Jun 1, 2016)

I don't expect to see some of the faces here bothering to show up, but this is important: Show of support for Cllr Rachel Heywood expected on Wednesday evening as Labour Group decides on her future

7pm outside International House.


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## Lizzy Mac (Jun 1, 2016)

This time last year there were very high winds.  I know for sure as I was camping.


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## Gramsci (Jun 1, 2016)

editor said:


> I don't expect to see some of the faces here bothering to show up, but this is important: Show of support for Cllr Rachel Heywood expected on Wednesday evening as Labour Group decides on her future
> 
> 7pm outside International House.



Got there after you. Like your photos on Library thread.

Good turnout at short notice. Library campaigners, Lambeth Housing Activists, local Trade Unionists, Brixton Rec Users Group among others.

Here are a few of my photos:












And at last moment before she went into the disciplinary meeting this Labour Cllr bravely decided to publicly support Rachel. Its a backbench Labour Cllr from Stockwell. Cllr Guilherme Rosa. No promotion for him then.


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## ash (Jun 2, 2016)

Does anyone have any ideas of where to buy a decent sized cactus? Thanks


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## Casaubon (Jun 2, 2016)

ash said:


> Does anyone have any ideas of where to buy a decent sized cactus? Thanks


How urgently do you need it?
I haven't managed to attend the last couple of years, but there was always a really good cactus-monger at the Lambeth Country Show, in the large marquee with the flower shows. He always had an excellent variety of quality cacti at the best prices. I'm looking at a couple here I bought from him years ago.


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## discobastard (Jun 2, 2016)

ash said:


> Does anyone have any ideas of where to buy a decent sized cactus? Thanks


Cactimania Cactus Gardens | Garden Centres & Nurseries | London.
Ring em first in case they've gone out of business there's no website.


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## ash (Jun 2, 2016)

Casaubon said:


> How urgently do you need it?
> I haven't managed to attend the last couple of years, but there was always a really good cactus-monger at the Lambeth Country Show, in the large marquee with the flower shows. He always had an excellent variety of quality cacti at the best prices. I'm looking at a couple here I bought from him years ago.


Thanks but that's too late as its for a birthday before then 


discobastard said:


> Cactimania Cactus Gardens | Garden Centres & Nurseries | London.
> Ring em first in case they've gone out of business there's no website.


cheers but the lines dead so doesn't look very hopeful


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## trabuquera (Jun 2, 2016)

How big a cactus are we talking about? And do you have access to a car?
For a smaller one the Secret Garden nursery in  70 Westow St, London SE19 3AF (Crystal Palace/Norwood) might help

If we're talking massive (and expensive) and you want to make a day of it, a trip to Architectural Plants in Horsham will give you grand spiky ideas (and it's a nice place for a picnic). Bloody pricy though.


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## snowy_again (Jun 2, 2016)

Try Elaine the Flower Lady in Herne Hill - they'll be going to Covent Garden mkt before the weekend, so could get you something specific - although that might not help your deadline.


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## editor (Jun 2, 2016)

What's on this weekend: What’s On In Brixton: bars, gigs and clubs around town, Fri 3rd – Sub 5th June 2016


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## editor (Jun 2, 2016)

Freebie film on Saturday: Brixton Windmill hosts its first ever open air film show on Saturday 4th June – Moulin Rouge!


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## editor (Jun 2, 2016)

Party night at the Albert tomorrow 






Friday 3rd June 2016, Brixton party night at the Offline Club, Prince Albert, 418 Coldharbour Lane, Brixton, London SW9, with DJs playing ska, d'n'b, electro, indie, punk, rock'n'roll, big band, rockabilly and skiffle


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## snowy_again (Jun 2, 2016)

10pm - 2pm?!


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## pesh (Jun 2, 2016)

thats how Friday night parties are meant to be


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## snowy_again (Jun 2, 2016)

Following on from this post:

Brixton news, rumour and general chat - January 2016 

The Cooltan CEO was dismissed last week and people have complained to the Charity Commission as a result. 

Article (but potential firewall if you hit their site too many times):

"The Charity Commission is looking into complaints made against the mental health charity Cooltan Arts after it sacked its founding chief executive Michelle Baharier last week.

_Third Sector_ understands a protest against her dismissal and the way she was treated by trustees was due to take place today outside the headquarters of the Southwark-based charity, which offers arts activities for people suffering from poor mental health.

Baharier was suspended in October over concerns about allegations of bullying and harassment. She subsequently took out a grievance against the charity, which was not upheld, claiming the disciplinary process had treated her unfairly.  The charity has now admitted she was dismissed last week, but were unable to say why in time for _Third Sector_'s deadline. 

Baharier took her grievance to employment tribunal, but it is not known how far the case has progressed. In a letter to stakeholders, Lillian Nalumansi, the chair of the charity confirmed the sacking and said the board would now turn to the "challenging task of establishing the future direction of the charity". "As we move forward the interests of our service users must be our focus," she said. 

"The funding and commissioning environment for charities like ours has changed enormously over recent years. For several years, the management team has been grappling with the challenges created by those changes. "We will be working to urgently refocus the work of the charity to put it in the strongest possible position to move forward."

She said publicity by Baharier and her supporters on social media had caused concern among funders and created uncertainty for service users. The current interim chief executive Herbie Taylor is expected to continue in the role.

Support for Baharier has been expressed on a Facebook group, Twitter account and Tumblr blog under the name Save Cooltan Arts. A post on the Facebook group confirmed Baharier’s sacking and said: "An appeal is being submitted and the legal fightback begins."

The Tumblr account announced a protest would be held today outside the charity’s offices in South East London and encouraged readers to attend, claiming Baharier had been subjected to "eight months of mental and emotional cruelty" in the run-up to her dismissal. A member of the Facebook group posted a link to the Charity Commission’s website, encouraging other members to complain about Baharier’s sacking. A Charity Commission spokeswoman said: "We can confirm that we have an open case into CoolTan Arts and we are currently in correspondence with the trustees about our concerns and complaints made against the charity.

"At this time we are unable to provide any further information until our case has concluded." No one from the charity or Save CoolTan Arts was available to comment. Baharier did not respond to a request for comment.""

FB account is here: Save CoolTan Arts


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## Tolpuddle (Jun 2, 2016)

Do we know what the outcome was yet?


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## Tolpuddle (Jun 2, 2016)

Tolpuddle said:


> Do we know what the outcome was yet?



 Ah, that didn't work!! I meant the outcome of the meeting last about Rachel Heywood.


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## snowy_again (Jun 2, 2016)

Support Rachel Heywood and lift the suspension NOW! | Campaigns by You


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## Greebo (Jun 2, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Support Rachel Heywood and lift the suspension NOW! | Campaigns by You


Signed


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## editor (Jun 2, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> 10pm - 2pm?!


Well, I'll still be up, but I'll probably be in a different place


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## CH1 (Jun 2, 2016)

Anyone know anything about the taping off of full width of the pavement by Sainsburys cash machine near Brixton tube this morning about 10.30 am. Lots of police/cars.
Everything back to normal this afternoon. Presumably some kind of aggravated robbery?


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## CH1 (Jun 2, 2016)

Question 2 - has anyone noticed the new bijou Post Office in Ferndale Road. Not yet open - but appears 250 Ferndale Road will close very soon.


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## Winot (Jun 2, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Anyone know anything about the taping off of full width of the pavement by Sainsburys cash machine near Brixton tube this morning about 10.30 am. Lots of police/cars.
> Everything back to normal this afternoon. Presumably some kind of aggravated robbery?



Bloke was attacked, according to Brixton Blog (or maybe I saw it on the sub-Standard).


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## Winot (Jun 2, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Question 2 - has anyone noticed the new bijou Post Office in Ferndale Road. Not yet open - but appears 250 Ferndale Road will close very soon.



Yes - the whole development looks nicely done. Some architects are moving in next door IIRC.


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## SpamMisery (Jun 2, 2016)

It looks really good. Looking forward to seeing the rest of it finished


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## editor (Jun 2, 2016)

Winot said:


> Yes - the whole development looks nicely done. Some architects are moving in next door IIRC.


Yes it's really nicely done. Good to see some decent new architecture around town for a change.


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## Ms T (Jun 2, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Anyone know anything about the taping off of full width of the pavement by Sainsburys cash machine near Brixton tube this morning about 10.30 am. Lots of police/cars.
> Everything back to normal this afternoon. Presumably some kind of aggravated robbery?



There was a broken bottle and a pool of blood when I went past at around 10.45.


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## CH1 (Jun 2, 2016)

Ms T said:


> There was a broken bottle and a pool of blood when I went past at around 10.45.


Amazing this sort of violence occurred in the morning - and almost in the rush hour.


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## Gramsci (Jun 2, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Support Rachel Heywood and lift the suspension NOW! | Campaigns by You



I cannot sign this. This is where I get annoyed.




> Rachel Heywood proudly fought the ill conceived and dangerous Loughborough Junction road closures.



Rachel knows that is not how I see the road closures issue.

I see the petition is started by the Library campaigners. Fair enough but it should have been kept simple.

The issue for me is that backbench Labour Cllrs should be allowed to publicly criticise what the ruling Cabinet are doing. That the Labour party should allow and foster open public debate. This has been lacking- a journalist told me a while back that if you ask a Ward Cllr to comment on an issue in there Ward you get referred to the Lambeth Press Office. Its that tightly controlled.

Personally I like Rachel and I have always found her a hardworking and committed Cllr.

But there is a distinction between supporting single issue campaigns and supporting open democratic debate in the Labour party.

Also this I take issue with:


> Rachel Heywood's 'crime' has been to fight the devastating impact of Tory central government attacks upon her constituents and Lambeth residents.



This is pushing it a bit.

One thing I raised in another group Im in ( and didnt make me popular) is I am not clear if Cllr Rachel has broken with the New Labour orthodoxy. Whilst she has supported residents ( I know from personal experience) I don’t believe she has voted against the Labour whip when it comes to implementing ( Tory imposed) cuts. So far her position is the Labour group should look at working with residents better to deal with the cuts. 

A local Trade Unionist said to me a few weeks ago the thing about Rachel is that he spent years arguing with her about cuts to Council services.

I am not having a go at Rachel here. I’m just saying a bit of cool analysis needs to be done.

What is possibly being seen is a power struggle developing within Nu Labour Lambeth. Not the Red take over of the local Labour party. So its about what kind of post Nu Labour politics should be put forward in Lambeth. I don’t think Rachel is a Momentum supporter. She might happily prove me wrong.

And I am concerned several campaigns have latched onto Rachel - its like one has to support all these campaigns uncritically or not support Rachel.


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## editor (Jun 3, 2016)

Winot said:


> Bloke was attacked, according to Brixton Blog (or maybe I saw it on the sub-Standard).


It was in the Standard: Man assaulted near Tube station in front of shocked commuters


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## editor (Jun 3, 2016)

Angellic said:


> London Rental Opportunity of the Week: A Windowless Prison in Brixton! | VICE | United Kingdom
> 
> How is this possible? ETA skylights.


More here: 


> Everyone knows that flat-hunting in London is soul-destroying, but things are getting seriously out of hand. In the last few weeks we've seen a creepy 'wipe-clean' flat and a studio flat in Hendon with a toilet in the kitchen cupboard, which we described as 'hell on earth'. But that was before we saw this: a completely windowless two-bed flat in Brixton, which will set you back a cool £1,625pcm. Oh, and bills aren't included. And neither are windows. Did we mention that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## editor (Jun 3, 2016)

Did anyone see this last month?



> An AirBnB host has been taken to court by their neighbours in the first of what experts believe is many more cases against those who use the site.
> 
> Residents in a block of flats in Brixton, south London, took a man to court over a penthouse party thrown by his guests which reportedly became out of control.
> 
> According to the Times, a judge ruled that the man had breached a number of terms in his lease, and said the tenant was using his property as a guesthouse.



Neighbours take AirBnB host to court in 'first of many' cases


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 3, 2016)

editor said:


> Did anyone see this last month?
> 
> 
> 
> Neighbours take AirBnB host to court in 'first of many' cases



Here comes the AIrBnB Crash! Sell your shares now!!!


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## snowy_again (Jun 3, 2016)

Isn't it just the monthly Mail AirBNB calamity story, with suitable _sadface _photos and links to their previous articles?


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## editor (Jun 3, 2016)

Bowie shrine updates: International tributes left at David Bowie’s Brixton shrine – May 2016 photos


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## editor (Jun 3, 2016)

Federation Bar opens tonight

Brixton’s Federation Coffee to launch a new bar tonight – Federation Bar


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## CH1 (Jun 3, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Here comes the AIrBnB Crash! Sell your shares now!!!


Nosey parker that I am I was desperately Googling to find which block of flats this was.

Have not yet succeeded, but I did come cross an Independent article saying that Berlin was introducing tight new regulations - with a penalty of €100,000 for unlicensed Airbnb letting. Apparently this has led to a 40% drop in Airbnb adverts for Berlin.

You won't be able to rent an Airbnb apartment in Berlin for much longer

What is Sadiq waiting for?


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## T & P (Jun 3, 2016)

The infamous racist graffiti incident in Herne Hill comes to mind as well...


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## Pop Tart (Jun 3, 2016)

Ms T said:


> There was a broken bottle and a pool of blood when I went past at around 10.45.



I was passing on the way to the tube and I'm not certain that spill was blood. I mean, at first i thoguht it was but then thought it was a funny colour for blood - really pinky. Then I noticed that the squished bottle on the floor was a flavored drink. I didn't stop and linger but I think it was a spilt drink. Horrible thing to happen anyway.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 3, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Nosey parker that I am I was desperately Googling to find which block of flats this was.
> 
> Have not yet succeeded, but I did come cross an Independent article saying that Berlin was introducing tight new regulations - with a penalty of €100,000 for unlicensed Airbnb letting. Apparently this has led to a 40% drop in Airbnb adverts for Berlin.
> 
> ...



Not just Airbnb in Berlin, it's *all* short-term lets in private homes, pretty much.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 4, 2016)

Look out Brixton Streatham's coming

Move over Clapham, this Zone 3 suburb is the new homes hotspot to watch


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## editor (Jun 4, 2016)

There was a lot of helicopter action over Coldharbour Lane (towards Loughborough Junc). anyone know what was going on?


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## editor (Jun 5, 2016)

Brixton tributes to Ali













Muhammad Ali tributes in Brixton’s Windrush Square – photos


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## editor (Jun 6, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Look out Brixton Streatham's coming
> 
> Move over Clapham, this Zone 3 suburb is the new homes hotspot to watch


Another ugly gated development, just like Brixton Square.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 6, 2016)

The prices on One Palace Road are scary


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## CH1 (Jun 6, 2016)

Did anybody notice the article below, by Ben Morgan formerly Brixton/Lambeth correspondent of the South London Press?
I have often wondered about how Ben was getting on - nice guy who was concerned to give a full airing to Lambeth community issues on the SLP.

I noticed a few general stories he wrote for the Standard, but this one is a major departure - looking at how a charity in Sierra Leone is working to reunite families after the Ebola epidemic.

Man pulled from body bag after doctor saw his toe twitching


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## se5 (Jun 6, 2016)

Brixton Premier Inn now available for booking from 28 June -http://www.premierinn.com/gb/en/hotels/england/greater-london/london/london-brixton.html


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## T & P (Jun 6, 2016)

Just searched randomly for mid-October prices, and they are in the £79- £82 ranges, which is not bad for London. On the Sunday night is £64.


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## CH1 (Jun 6, 2016)

se5 said:


> Brixton Premier Inn now available for booking from 28 June -http://www.premierinn.com/gb/en/hotels/england/greater-london/london/london-brixton.html


The plaster will hardly be dry on the entrance lobby.


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## twistedAM (Jun 6, 2016)

T & P said:


> Just searched randomly for mid-October prices, and they are in the £79- £82 ranges, which is not bad for London. On the Sunday night is £64.



That's comparable to if not better than Travelodge. Trouble though for the people I'd be booking for is secure parking.


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## CH1 (Jun 6, 2016)

twistedAM said:


> That's comparable to if not better than Travelodge. Trouble though for the people I'd be booking for is secure parking.


Hadn't you heard - Golfrate did a section 106 promising only to accommodate guests who use public transport!


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## CH1 (Jun 6, 2016)

twistedAM said:


> That's comparable to if not better than Travelodge. Trouble though for the people I'd be booking for is secure parking.


I was wondering about your possible guests - and I see Comfort Inn on South Lambeth Road does parking - but they charge. No idea about the room rate comparison.

_Comfort Inn London offers public parking on-site for GBP 22.00 per day (a reservation is required). Comfort Inn London is located outside of the London Congestion charge zone._


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## editor (Jun 6, 2016)

se5 said:


> Brixton Premier Inn now available for booking from 28 June -http://www.premierinn.com/gb/en/hotels/england/greater-london/london/london-brixton.html


Hen parties and stag dos: book your places!


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## twistedAM (Jun 6, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I was wondering about your possible guests - and I see Comfort Inn on South Lambeth Road does parking - but they charge. No idea about the room rate comparison.
> 
> _Comfort Inn London offers public parking on-site for GBP 22.00 per day (a reservation is required). Comfort Inn London is located outside of the London Congestion charge zone._



Thanks. The reason i need parking is that it'd be a band with a van load of equipment. The Clapham Hotel and Lodge are usually quite good for that anyway but Premiers are nicer and apparently do a decent breakfast.


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## Gramsci (Jun 7, 2016)

Josephine Avenue street party. Didn’t know about it but was with friend who is near there. Good atmosphere and low key. Blessed with good weather. 

























And these expresso martinis were free So had a couple of them. Quite a kick


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## editor (Jun 7, 2016)

The Brixton Gin Festival 2016 is happening on 16th July and has 2.4k people interested on FB even though there seems to be no info about where it is or how much it costs (least I can't see any) . 

Brixton Gin Festival 2016


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## Tricky Skills (Jun 7, 2016)

editor said:


> The Brixton Gin Festival 2016 is happening on 16th July and has 2.4k people interested on FB even though there seems to be no info about where it is or how much it costs (least I can't see any) .
> 
> Brixton Gin Festival 2016




Same weekend as the Country Show.

Interesting...


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## editor (Jun 7, 2016)

Some pics from Friday's Offline at the Albert 





















Friday 3rd June 2016, Brixton party night at the Offline Club, Prince Albert, 418 Coldharbour Lane, Brixton, London SW9, with DJs playing ska, d'n'b, electro, indie, punk, rock'n'roll, big band, rockabilly and skiffle


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## CH1 (Jun 7, 2016)

Tricky Skills said:


> Same weekend as the Country Show.
> Interesting...


Can't see lilly law approving of that.


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## editor (Jun 7, 2016)

This is happening tonight at 6.30pm Brixton Fund – shortlist for round 2, and how to get involved | The Brixton Pound


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## CH1 (Jun 7, 2016)

Before applying for that funding - time to slip in some regeneration for fans of estate demolition and upgrading?

*The letter relates to an exhibition today, Tuesday 7th June 
*
Dear Resident,
*RE: Pre-cabinet information and Building Homes for Lambeth: Design Principles Exhibition
*
Please accept our apologies, due to unforeseen funeral event at the Fenwick Hall, tomorrow's exhibition will need to finish at 7pm instead of scheduled 8pm. If you are planning to attend tomorrow, please do so between 4pm to 7pm.

We will be closing the exhibition at 7pm, however, a member of the team will be available until 8pm to see anyone who may have difficulty attending at the revised time.

Best Regards


Bashir Miah
Housing Project Officer

W:Fenwick
E:fenwickestate@lambeth.gov.uk
P:0207 926 3607


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Before applying for that funding - time to slip in some regeneration for fans of estate demolition and upgrading?
> 
> *The letter relates to an exhibition today, Tuesday 7th June
> *
> ...



That pretty much says everything that needs to be said about Lambeth's commitment to meaningful consultation of residents.


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## CH1 (Jun 8, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> That pretty much says everything that needs to be said about Lambeth's commitment to meaningful consultation of residents.


You will think me a right prat - but I didn't take that letter with me walk around the Fenwick Estate as I might I could not see any exhibition, or remember the precise address.

There were 4 estate noticeboards - photos of the cleaners and the coucillors, but nothing at all about this consultation meeting.

So I had a wasted trip & can't give a report.

I know some local people are unhappy about the proposals for the estate . The council website link I posted above says that terraced houses 7-51 odd in Willington Road are to be retained now.

This seems to be a response to residents concerns expressed thus:

*Currently the Fenwick Estate is planned for demolition, subject to cabinet approval. this has been going on since November 2015 and we have finally been formally consulted.
Initial proposals see two storey family houses in Willington Road, and to the back of our houses in Tasman Road being demolished to make way for 6 storey flats. This would place 6 storey blocks within 18m of our 2 storey homes. 
Through a barrage of emails, magically they are suggested now lower flats at 4 storey with roof terraces!!!
We aren’t sure on what to do, and who can help. We are not opposed to the redevelopment of Fenwick, and fully support decent quality housing for all. What we are concerned about is
Demolition of 25 year old family homes (they have families in, but the council say 2bed houses aren’t family homes!)
Providing 4 to 6 storey blocks of flats overlooking existing 2 storey houses and gardens
We haven’t even begun to discuss other areas of the masterplan sketch proposals yet, such as creating tunnelling and canyon effect to Landor Road, towering over Fenwick Place historic buildings and the like!!!
*
It seems strange that the life of a council house in Lambeth could reasonably have been thought to be 30 years.

Maybe when this goes to cabinet we will have full drawings etc, but at thew moment I can't trace them.

I think Fenwick Estate was number 4 on the list for regeneration - Cressingham Gardens being number 1.

So the dead hand of Lambeth Regeneration is still advancing over the borough. Looks like by the time of the next council election it will all be done and dusted.


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## Greebo (Jun 8, 2016)

CH1 said:


> You will think me a right prat - but I didn't take that letter with me walk around the Fenwick Estate as I might I could not see any exhibition, or remember the precise address.
> 
> There were 4 estate noticeboards - photos of the cleaners and the coucillors, but nothing at all about this consultation meeting.
> 
> So I had a wasted trip & can't give a report. <snip>


That pretty much reflects how consultation (sic) meetings and exhibitions are posted on Cressingham Gardens too; if you're lucky, there will be a flyer through every estate door a few days in advance, but don't rely on it.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2016)

So the mysterious Gin Festival turns out to be a pricey jaunt at JAMM (£10 'early bird' up to £17 entry). 



> Come down to Brixton Jamm for Brixton Gin Fest and taste the widest variety of all things Gin!
> 
> The 3 sittings are as follows
> 16/07/16 @ 12:00 – 17:00
> ...


Thank heavens they've got 'live DJs'. Dead ones really aren't that good.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 8, 2016)

editor said:


> So the mysterious Gin Festival turns out to be a pricey jaunt at JAMM (£10 'early bird' up to £17 entry).
> 
> Thank heavens they've got 'live DJs'. Dead ones really aren't that good.



I prefer Jimmy Savile dead.


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## snowy_again (Jun 8, 2016)

Which does sort of resemble bits of brixton post Country Show.


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## trabuquera (Jun 8, 2016)

editor said:


> So the mysterious Gin Festival turns out to be a pricey jaunt at JAMM (£10 'early bird' up to £17 entry). .



Not Hogarthian AT ALL then. bring back the days of "drunk for a penny, dead drunk for tuppence"!


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## organicpanda (Jun 8, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Which does sort of resemble bits of brixton post Country Show.


pic commissioned by London beer companies


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## CH1 (Jun 8, 2016)

editor said:


> So the mysterious Gin Festival turns out to be a pricey jaunt at JAMM (£10 'early bird' up to £17 entry).
> Thank heavens they've got 'live DJs'. Dead ones really aren't that good.


Looks like Jamm are getting the backwash from Pop Brixton.

Just like Foxtons puts all the house prices and rents up, Pop Brixton is putting up the entertainment prices.

Social cleansing by any other name?


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## trabuquera (Jun 8, 2016)

Prepare for lots of loonspuds on the loose next weekend:
DAVID ICKE LIVE AT THE 02 BRIXTON ACADEMY, LONDON (Saturday 18th June) - Stalls - United Kindgom

£55 a pop to combat our lizard overlords


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## editor (Jun 8, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Looks like Jamm are getting the backwash from Pop Brixton.


Maybe, but Jamm is a very, very different proposition to Pop Brixton. They were offered millions to flog off their large site for luxury housing but have refused all offers and instead invested a huge sum into improving the venue.


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## CH1 (Jun 8, 2016)

trabuquera said:


> Prepare for lots of loonspuds on the loose next weekend:
> DAVID ICKE LIVE AT THE 02 BRIXTON ACADEMY, LONDON (Saturday 18th June) - Stalls - United Kindgom
> £55 a pop to combat our lizard overlords


I'll have to break my rule and go to the Beehive that day. There is usually an assortment of interesting paranoid literature on offer after a David Icke lecture.

Andrew Neil cut him off sharpish two weeks ago when he started on the shape shifting lizards in the royal family on "This Week"


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## teuchter (Jun 8, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Looks like Jamm are getting the backwash from Pop Brixton.
> 
> Just like Foxtons puts all the house prices and rents up, Pop Brixton is putting up the entertainment prices.
> 
> Social cleansing by any other name?



While rents and house prices have undoubtedly gone up, I can't say I've noticed any particular change in prices for club nights and so on. What's changed locally is more that so many venues have disappeared.


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## CH1 (Jun 8, 2016)

teuchter said:


> While rents and house prices have undoubtedly gone up, I can't say I've noticed any particular change in prices for club nights and so on. What's changed locally is more that so many venues have disappeared.


What about this?
Entry to Brixton Beach Boulevard starts at £5, rising to £250 for ‘The Motel,’ a privately hired room which hosts a maximum of 15 people with a minimum spend requirement of £500.


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## T & P (Jun 8, 2016)

CH1 said:


> What about this?
> Entry to Brixton Beach Boulevard starts at £5, rising to £250 for ‘The Motel,’ a privately hired room which hosts a maximum of 15 people with a minimum spend requirement of £500.


That would have almost certainly happened regardless of the existence of Pop. The ongoing changes Brixton has experienced have been going on for a good number of years (as extensively documented and lamented in this forum), and it has been a progressing, cumulative process. To blame Pop Brixton for a venue elsewhere holding a pricey event seems a quite a bit of a stretch tbh.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2016)

CH1 said:


> You will think me a right prat - but I didn't take that letter with me walk around the Fenwick Estate as I might I could not see any exhibition, or remember the precise address.
> 
> There were 4 estate noticeboards - photos of the cleaners and the coucillors, but nothing at all about this consultation meeting.
> 
> ...



Fenwick first found out about the public notice about demolition (published in "Lambeth Weekender" or whatever it's called) in November because I contacted a housing activist who lived there, to pass comment on it. "What fucking public notice?" was his reply. It hadn't been posted locally, or in the library or anywhere.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 9, 2016)

CH1 said:


> What about this?
> Entry to Brixton Beach Boulevard starts at £5, rising to £250 for ‘The Motel,’ a privately hired room which hosts a maximum of 15 people with a minimum spend requirement of £500.


What are you comparing with what?


----------



## CH1 (Jun 9, 2016)

teuchter said:


> What are you comparing with what?


You were asking about expensive nights out I believe.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 9, 2016)

CH1 said:


> You were asking about expensive nights out I believe.


I wouldn't class £5 as expensive. 10 or 15 years ago there were plenty of £5 nights out, mixed with some more expensive ones in the £15-20 range. I don't think that's changed all that much.

The £250 option is for a special hired room not a normal night out. I expect that that 10 years ago, if say, you wanted to book out a room at the dogstar or somewhere like that for private use, they would have asked for something like that.

Even so, split between 15 people £250 works out at £17 each.

I'm going on what I see around, advertised generally. Not especially scientific.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2016)

CH1 said:


> You were asking about expensive nights out I believe.


The 'old school' venues like Dogstar, Hoot, Jamm etc have pretty much kept their prices in line with what they've always been, and at least you're getting to see bands or listen to DJs through a big sound system till the early hours. A fiver to get in to the Beach Boulevard with its pricey drinks and early closing time hardly seems comparable value. Unless you're awestruck by standing on a bit of sand, of course.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2016)

Nice midnight vibes near the station last night. 






Midnight busker: local musician Ese performs in central Brixton for late night crowd


----------



## Casaubon (Jun 9, 2016)

The last event at the Windmill was very busy and under-catered, I think, a victim of its own success, so it'll probably be a good idea to take your own refreshments.


Edit: Should I have started a thread for this in ‘Brixton Noticeboard’?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2016)

Seems appropriate:


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2016)

Casaubon said:


> The last event at the Windmill was very busy and under-catered, I think, a victim of its own success, so it'll probably be a good idea to take your own refreshments.
> 
> 
> Edit: Should I have started a thread for this in ‘Brixton Noticeboard’?


Thanks for posting that - I've Buzzed it here Join the Windmill Parade and Festival, Sunday 26th June


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 9, 2016)

So the old Hot Wok Chinese takeaway on Brixton Road is closed for good and the builders are in
the improvements look substantial with a new shop front on ingleton street the newly pedestrianised area
that serves as a beer garden for the crown and anchor pub. out of curiosity I went on the planning site and discovered this new establishment is to be a proper grown up restaurant.
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/brl_redacted_application_Prem1959.pdf
the man in charge is one Mr Martin Harley, and the restaurants to be called Booma
I searched Martin Harley/booma and discovered he is also owner of The Westbury N22
here is the Westbury.......







......which may look familiar to anyone who has visited the Crown and Anchor, and for good reason because the owner of the Crown and Anchor is also Mr Martin Harley......


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## CH1 (Jun 9, 2016)

cuppa tee said:


> So the old Hot Wok Chinese takeaway on Brixton Road is closed for good and the builders are in
> the improvements look substantial with a new shop front on ingleton street the newly pedestrianised area
> that serves as a beer garden for the crown and anchor pub. out of curiosity I went on the planning site and discovered this new establishment is to be a proper grown up restaurant.
> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/brl_redacted_application_Prem1959.pdf
> ...


At least he won't need the OCD Cleaners - unlike some Brixton pubs I could think of.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jun 9, 2016)

Booming and busy at Jamm last night when I cycled past. Looks like they had an 'industry/media' launch after the refurb.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2016)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Booming and busy at Jamm last night when I cycled past. Looks like they had an 'industry/media' launch after the refurb.


I was there! It's looking great inside. They've invested a lot of money in the place and Brixton's now got a really good small to medium size live venue.

I'll post some pics soon.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jun 9, 2016)

Gorilla Advertising @ Mango Landin RIP


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 9, 2016)

editor said:


> The Brixton Gin Festival 2016 is happening on 16th July and has 2.4k people interested on FB even though there seems to be no info about where it is or how much it costs (least I can't see any) .
> 
> Brixton Gin Festival 2016




Glad that gin is in fashion again!

Good for happiness, depression, relaxation, grief, shock, PMT, menopause and all sorts of womens hormonal thingys, well in my experience. Generally gin is my drug of choice. Should be available on prescription if you ask me.

There's so many great new gins about now, lovely local london gins. Lovely stuff.


----------



## aka (Jun 9, 2016)

Blurb from the REMAKERY

"We would like to formally invite you to our Summer Party next Friday (17th) from about 6:30pm.  We would be delighted if as many people as possible could make it to help us celebrate another year of the REMAKERY and the summer sunshine.  Food, booze and dancing, but not necessarily in that order! www.remakery.org"


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 9, 2016)

Anyone know what that Israeli-style exclusion fence is that's gone up in Brockwell Park this week? Something to protect the new gentry squirrels from the more chaotic and feral ones?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2016)

isvicthere? said:


> Anyone know what that Israeli-style exclusion fence is that's gone up in Brockwell Park this week? Something to protect the new gentry squirrels from the more chaotic and feral ones?


Found festival. Another paid event.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 9, 2016)

isvicthere? said:


> Anyone know what that Israeli-style exclusion fence is that's gone up in Brockwell Park this week? Something to protect the new gentry squirrels from the more chaotic and feral ones?


It's worse than that...


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Found festival. Another paid event.



Had a quick look at it. Tickets from £15 to £50. I admire how much they can stratify the experience within a relatively small patch of park. Will there be executive high speed bar queues and VIP toilets?


----------



## Greebo (Jun 9, 2016)

isvicthere? said:


> Had a quick look at it. Tickets from £15 to £50. I admire how much they can stratify the experience within a relatively small patch of park. Will there be executive high speed bar queues and VIP toilets?


I doubt it, nor will there (probably) be blow jobs on tap or prioritsed cold cans for the more expensive ticket holders...


----------



## se5 (Jun 10, 2016)

So Green Party candidate almost beat Labour candidate in yesterday's council byelection - another 37 Green votes and they would have won


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2016)

There's a commemorative event tonight with a collection of artefacts going on display inside the Black Cultural Archives











Brixton’s Black Cultural Archives pays tribute to Muhammad Ali’s lasting legacy in Britain


----------



## uk benzo (Jun 10, 2016)

Holy shit... they knocked Hambledon House down quickly!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 10, 2016)

se5 said:


> So Green Party candidate almost beat Labour candidate in yesterday's council byelection - another 37 Green votes and they would have won



And the only real reason that Luke Murphy won is because Lambeth Labour bussed in canvassers from neighbouring wards, issued dishonest electioneering leaflets and (most disgusting in my view) asked voters to, if not voting Labour, to vote Conservative.


----------



## brixtonblade (Jun 10, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> And the only real reason that Luke Murphy won is because Lambeth Labour bussed in canvassers from neighbouring wards, issued dishonest electioneering leaflets and (most disgusting in my view) asked voters to, if not voting Labour, to vote Conservative.


I'm no fan of lambeth labour but I have to say that this all strikes me as fairly standard campaigning, no?


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 10, 2016)

anyone else got new street lights ?


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2016)

Atlantic Road, 2am


----------



## Greebo (Jun 11, 2016)

brixtonblade said:


> I'm no fan of lambeth labour but I have to say that this all strikes me as fairly standard campaigning, no?


Not the bit about voting conservative (ie. spunking your vote if you're in Lambeth).


----------



## brixtonblade (Jun 11, 2016)

Greebo said:


> Not the bit about voting conservative (ie. spunking your vote if you're in Lambeth).


Nah, "don't vote for the other guys" has got to be pretty normal hasn't it? Maybe that this means greens not conservative is new though.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 11, 2016)

brixtonblade said:


> I'm no fan of lambeth labour but I have to say that this all strikes me as fairly standard campaigning, no?


No - the standard approach used to be "lend us your vote because Lambeth council are crap" - which is what the Greens presumably WERE saying.
If Labour campaigners were telling dissatisfied Labour voters to vote Tory instead of Green that is a new Progress low IMHO.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2016)

Another Brixton busker Brixton busker: late night reggae tunes in the heart of town


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 11, 2016)

brixtonblade said:


> I'm no fan of lambeth labour but I have to say that this all strikes me as fairly standard campaigning, no?



No. Recommending that people vote for "the enemy" used to be an offence that got you kicked out of the Labour Party, and while dissembling is standard, blatant misrepresentation and lying aren't, and can be subject to investigation by the Electoral Commission.



brixtonblade said:


> Nah, "don't vote for the other guys" has got to be pretty normal hasn't it? Maybe that this means greens not conservative is new though.



"Don't vote for the other guys" doesn't usually extend to soliciting votes for the *other* "other guys".


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2016)

Bit disappointing seeing Hustlebucks - who certainly do good stuff for the youth - selling this t shirt.


----------



## EastEnder (Jun 11, 2016)

editor said:


> Bit disappointing seeing Hustlebucks - who certainly do good stuff for the youth - selling this t shirt.
> 
> View attachment 88313


How very tasteless.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 11, 2016)

Um, it's not for the youth, it's run by young people.


----------



## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 12, 2016)

editor said:


> Another ugly gated development, just like Brixton Square.


Grrrrrrr leave Brixton Square alone, and this development is certainly not ugly.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 12, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Grrrrrrr leave Brixton Square alone, and this development is certainly not ugly.


It's a bit difficult for most people to appreciate the "inner beauty" of Brixton Square because it is gated.

I wanted to take issue with our local councillor on a related matter

Admitted Roger Scruton, right wing philosoper that he is, might not be altogether to Rachel's liking, but I took his piece on Radio 4 to be a reaction to the wholesale regeneration of districts like Battersea and possibly Brixton on two grounds - principally aesthetic but also because he insisted that high rise building was not more efficient in terms of accommodating more residents, nor was it what people wanted.

His buzz phrase in the talk was "Not a NIMBY but a BIMBY" [Beauty In My Back Yard]   How Should We Build?, A Point of View - BBC Radio 4

I find much to agree with in Roger Scruton's talk. And maybe if you feel there is much to like about the inner sanctum of Brixton Square you might float the idea of a residents open day so we can all find out?


----------



## SpamMisery (Jun 12, 2016)

Why is everyone in such a huff about a shared private garden?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 12, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> Why is everyone in such a huff about a shared private garden?



People seem to enjoy being in a huff on this thread.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 12, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> Why is everyone in such a huff about a shared private garden?


I think you would have greatly benefited from this lecture on Saturday: 
_*Antiuniversity presents: *_
*Ground Control – the Privatisation of Cities and Destruction of Public Space
Saturday 11th June @ 3:00 pm - 4:30 pm*


----------



## SpamMisery (Jun 12, 2016)

So its not the garden really but the fact it used to be part social housing?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2016)

CH1 said:


> It's a bit difficult for most people to appreciate the "inner beauty" of Brixton Square because it is gated.
> 
> I wanted to take issue with our local councillor on a related matter
> 
> ...




Battersea was not "regenerated". From the mid-seventies on it was gentrified - or (mostly) the bits that didn't have tower blocks or mid-rise on it were. The sad fact of so many 12-storey plus buildings in a reasonably small area was a legacy of geography - if you're near a major railway during a war where your enemies will bomb such places, housing gets fucked. In Battersea, that turned out to be thousands of "workers' cottages" off of Falcon Road, Surrey Lane, Battersea High St and Battersea Park Rd. 

What gentrification did there is set the surviving (mostly Victorian and Edwardian) housing in aspic, while denigrating the estates that surround them. Wandsworth Council were notorious for failing to maintain their tower blocks - up until Wandsworth Council found that some of its' high rise could be sold to the private sector as apartment blocks.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2016)

Lorra rain out there at the moment.


----------



## billythefish (Jun 12, 2016)

editor said:


> Lorra rain out there at the moment.


The cloud over Brockwell Park look to me like it's spinning slightly - maybe some funnel clouds soon?


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Jun 12, 2016)

I went into the garden in wellies and my Glastonbury poncho.  That was quite something.
The blue sky just in sight was the oddest thing.


----------



## Jangleballix (Jun 12, 2016)

Royal Vauxhall Tavern have a shout out for any documentation from anyone, punter, performer, promoter, who has used their premises as a performance space over the last ten years:
A new threat to the RVT's future - Future of the Royal Vauxhall Tavern


----------



## innit (Jun 13, 2016)

Jangleballix said:


> Royal Vauxhall Tavern have a shout out for any documentation from anyone, punter, performer, promoter, who has used their premises as a performance space over the last ten years:
> A new threat to the RVT's future - Future of the Royal Vauxhall Tavern


eme there must be lots of pictures of ettes at duckie over the last 10 years?


----------



## Angellic (Jun 13, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Grrrrrrr leave Brixton Square alone, and this development is certainly not ugly.



It looks pleasant enough from within. I wonder how the external presents itself to those on the outside.


----------



## Angellic (Jun 13, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> Why is everyone in such a huff about a shared private garden?



I work in Pimlico and am always frustrated by those beautiful and grand Victorian/Georgian squares whose quiet gardens I can only peer into from the railings.


----------



## Angellic (Jun 13, 2016)

Angellic said:


> It looks pleasant enough from within. I wonder how the external presents itself to those on the outside.



This is what it looks like. E2A Or will.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

A bit about the Frat House bar 












In photos: The Brixton Frat House, a new sports themed bar for Brixton


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

This was posted on FB. What do we think? 
 




> Im all in favour of street parties to bring locals together and was very supportive of this one butLeander Road Street party is advertising their event with Keating estate agents signs
> free advertising for the very same people who are intent on turning Brixton into Chelsea and driving out the original communities, the old, the sick, unemployed and those who cannot afford the inflated prices.
> Discuss


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 13, 2016)

Same estate agent that sponsors DHFC isn't it? ah, no it's not is it - that's KFH.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jun 13, 2016)

editor said:


> A bit about the Frat House bar
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had thought about the currency of 'Frat House' theming as the news and discussion about frat member rapist Brock Turner has unfolded. Kind of disappointing (understatement) that anyone thinks the décor to attract their target clientele is massive erect cocks and exposed female buttocks. Especially if they are right.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Same estate agent that sponsors DHFC isn't it? ah, no it's not is it - that's KFH.


What's DHFC got to do with it? They're a football club, not a street party.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 13, 2016)

But both have to cover their costs - and make choices about how to do that.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jun 13, 2016)

editor said:


> This was posted on FB. What do we think?
> View attachment 88401


Estate agents sell people's houses for them. No-one is going to not sell their house if they are planning to move, downsize, upsize, or whatever mortgage holders do in residential roads. Presumably EAs compete within their sector to be the one to sell the house.
It is bloody hard to raise money to run a street party, or any other community event.
There is a case for thinking that street parties can strengthen people's sense of neighbourliness, and solidarity.

Though I realise that this isn't the whole story, and many EAs are a deeper part of the development process, and developers talk to them before getting a development off the ground.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> But both have to cover their costs - and make choices about how to do that.


 I was asking about what people think about the practice of a street party being funded by big estate agent billboards, in particular to the pint made in the FB post.

A private football club is not a free public street party and clubs have to balance a far wider range of completely unrelated financial issues. Did you only bring it up because I support DHFC because estate agents sponsor all sorts of other businesses/activities, none of which you've elected to mention?


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

OvalhouseDB said:


> There is a case for thinking that street parties can strengthen people's sense of neighbourliness, and solidarity..


I'm all for street parties but seeing a street flanked with estate agent boards does rather dampen the spirits.


----------



## Angellic (Jun 13, 2016)

editor said:


> This was posted on FB. What do we think?
> View attachment 88401



It would be interesting to know who approached who and if other advertisers were available or approached.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 13, 2016)

Christ, you're not the only DHFC fan in the world! Stop being so defensive.

IIRC the board's only go up when something's up for rent / up for sale - then the thing at the bottom gets stuck on it for the time period (and then probably doesn't get removed in line with the correct legislation). They don't go up on every house on Leander Road.

Have you run a street party? Are you aware of the volunteer time and the costs involved, and the difficulties and admin nightmares that entails? 

There was a comment below on the reclaim brixton fb thing about the local business and individuals who had supported - you've obviously seen that and the fact that L&Q have stumped up some £$ too. Ideally EA's wouldn't be involved - but it's a necessary evil. Crowd funding for this sort of thing is much harder - they're transient events for lots of people. 

Perhaps you'd like to offer your opinion too?


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jun 13, 2016)

Angellic said:


> It would be interesting to know who approached who and if other advertisers were available or approached.



As far as I know from my son's primary school it is now such a common form of sponsorship / funding for school fairs and street parties that someone just rings round and sees who will pay / donate the most money. If I was trying to sell a house, I might deliberately avoid school fair / street party season as now, when I see loads of boards I assume they are advertising an event rather than actually selling a flat. So real sales risk being lost in a sea of fetes...


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

Angellic said:


> It would be interesting to know who approached who and if other advertisers were available or approached.


I'm chatting to one of the organisers now and suggested that a public crowdfunding appeal might be able to reach more people and avoid the need for such advertising. If they go for it, we'd give them a big plug on Brixton Buzz as that seems to have worked for other appeals in the past.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Perhaps you'd like to offer your opinion too?


I'm offering to help right now and I've organised more free events than I care to remember.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jun 13, 2016)

Householders have to give permission for a board on their property. Organisers have to get householders to agree, sign a consent form and then give a list of addresses to the EA. The EA pays per address. As far as I know boards cannot go up on LA or HA properties, unless the council or HA agree. I don't know whether tenants of private lets can agree to take a board.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

OvalhouseDB said:


> As far as I know from my son's primary school it is now such a common form of sponsorship / funding for school fairs and street parties that someone just rings round and sees who will pay / donate the most money. If I was trying to sell a house, I might deliberately avoid school fair / street party season as now, when I see loads of boards I assume they are advertising an event rather than actually selling a flat. So real sales risk being lost in a sea of fetes...


It's all brand awareness though - that's why some estate agents are happy to flout the law and shove their signs up wherever they can.


----------



## MissL (Jun 13, 2016)

editor said:


> This was posted on FB. What do we think?
> View attachment 88401



What I think about this is that it's pretty shit. Editor's right, knowing your part of an estate agent's brand awareness scheme adds nothing to the party atmosphere. They have gone seriously overboard  on Leander Road. There must be 40 boards as least. There's also quite a few been put up on Helix Road - one of them on my neighbours' property, both LA flats. I'll ask them when I see them next but I'm pretty sure they have not given permission for this.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 13, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm offering to help right now and I've organised more free events than I care to remember.



And street parties? Chez explained to you the difficulties they had faced securing funding from businesses, individuals etc.

The event's on 2nd of July - so quite a short turnaround time to run an appeal, and street parties aren't 'traditional' crowd funding items - they're one off events, and don't have the hook that many people react to, making them donate - there's no purchased 'item' or legacy - aside from fun, friends and a few photos.

These three are below their target; and you'll recall the success of the Brixton Splash attempt!
Justgiving!

Chatsworth Road Community Festival

https://www.spacehive.com/party-in-the-park-2016?searchText=street party

Even the 'how to' guides tend to focus on different types of projects
https://www.lewisham.gov.uk/news/Pa...owdfunding-to-improve-your-neighbourhood.aspx
Promotion tips on how to run a successful crowdfunding campaign

All of which entails someone to manage the crowdfunding campaign. When you look at the work involved, you can see why some people might be tempted to take an easy way to make sure they can run an event. 

As for brand awareness - I've probably become desensitised to them and just don't see them (or they all merge into one image of a fat tied, slightly portly, dreadful shoe wearing estate agent).


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> And street parties? Chez explained to you the difficulties they had faced securing funding from businesses, individuals etc.
> 
> The event's on 2nd of July - so quite a short turnaround time to run an appeal, and street parties aren't 'traditional' crowd funding items - they're one off events, and don't have the hook that many people react to, making them donate - there's no purchased 'item' or legacy - aside from fun, friends and a few photos.
> 
> ...


You're comparing it with Splash?! Really?

As for the others - the Queensbury one is 38% there with 49 days to go, and the Chatsworth one has already secured a rather hefty £11.5k with 50 days to go. So, both targets would appear very achievable, especially if they get a push through social media etc. 

That said, you really can't compare random appeals to each other for what I would hope are rather obvious reasons. Thousands of appeals are successful every year.


----------



## urbanspaceman (Jun 13, 2016)

We've got a bigger problem than estate agents' boards; street parties _themselves_ are terrible things:

 " 'a_ front for a middle-class nationalism that celebrates the cruelty of austerity, and recasts the British empire as a force for good', sadomasochistic, imperialist, racist-adjacent, twee, colonialist, and 'middel class'_ ", according to the Guardian's Dawn Foster:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/10/queen-elizabeth-90th-birtday-street-parties-middel-class-nationalism-british-empire

We should all be ashamed of yourselves.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 13, 2016)

MissL said:


> What I think about this is that it's pretty shit. Editor's right, knowing your part of an estate agent's brand awareness scheme adds nothing to the party atmosphere. They have gone seriously overboard  on Leander Road. There must be 40 boards as least. There's also quite a few been put up on Helix Road - one of them on my neighbours' property, both LA flats. I'll ask them when I see them next but I'm pretty sure they have not given permission for this.


To be clear - you are telling those 40 households (including those in rented HA properties) they should stump up their own cash instead of choosing to display a board? Is it that either they pay up in person, or forget their street party?

I reckon it's up to the good people of Leander Rd what they do on their own street.


----------



## MissL (Jun 13, 2016)

teuchter said:


> To be clear - you are telling those 40 households (including those in rented HA properties) they should stump up their own cash instead of choosing to display a board? Is it that either they pay up in person, or forget their street party?
> 
> I reckon it's up to the good people of Leander Rd what they do on their own street.



To be clear - no, that's not what I'm saying Teuchter but thanks for asking. I don't have an issue with the good people of Leander Road asking an estate agent to fund their event. What I do have an issue with is the way the estate agents go about displaying their sponsorship of such events.


----------



## leanderman (Jun 13, 2016)

Anyway, it will be fun, and EVERYONE is welcome, wherever you live


----------



## teuchter (Jun 13, 2016)

MissL said:


> To be clear - no, that's not what I'm saying Teuchter but thanks for asking. I don't have an issue with the good people of Leander Road asking an estate agent to fund their event. What I do have an issue with is the way the estate agents go about displaying their sponsorship of such events.


So it must be that you have an issue with the good people of Leander road accepting the terms of the estate agent's offer to sponsor their event. They were too much of a pushover, those good people of Leander Rd.


----------



## MissL (Jun 13, 2016)

teuchter said:


> So it must be that you have an issue with the good people of Leander road accepting the terms of the estate agent's offer to sponsor their event. They were too much of a pushover, those good people of Leander Rd.



What is wrong with you? Why are you trying to make this something it's not? I don't like the way the estate agents choose to display their sponsorship of events whether it's Leander Road street party, Jubilee Primary School Summer Fair of whatever. I've not made any comment whatsoever about the people of Leander Road being a pushover. You really are a fuckwit.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 13, 2016)

MissL said:


> What is wrong with you? Why are you trying to make this something it's not? I don't like the way the estate agents choose to display their sponsorship of events whether it's Leander Road street party, Jubilee Primary School Summer Fair of whatever. I've not made any comment whatsoever about the people of Leander Road being a pushover. You really are a fuckwit.


The point is that it's the people who live in the houses who choose whether the boards are there or not. I don't like these boards either, but if it was my street and the choice was between no boards and a street party, maybe I'd accept the boards. In this instance it's for the people of Leander road to decide amongst themselves. As so many houses have decided to have a board it seems a lot of residents have decided they don't mind too much.

How do you propose the people of Leander Rd persuade the estate agent to give them money with no sponsorship in return, given that so many homeowners apparently have little problem with putting the boards in their gardens?


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

On FB: 
"I used to notice trees when I cycled up Josephine Av. now all I see is estate agent boards - wrong on so many levels"


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2016)




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## Dan U (Jun 13, 2016)

Everyone doing shit loads of ketamine?


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## T & P (Jun 13, 2016)

Of all the things to give a shit about...


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## editor (Jun 13, 2016)

T & P said:


> Of all the things to give a shit about...


If it's of no interest to you, feel free to jog on!


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## T & P (Jun 13, 2016)

Oh, it is of interest to observe people's reactions. And I think far too much importance is being placed on the fact that a estate agent is supporting a local street party.


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## twistedAM (Jun 13, 2016)

editor said:


> View attachment 88408



K Cider? That's a smart look for a street party


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## Angellic (Jun 13, 2016)

It's a shame the space given to the street party and the EA logo aren't reversed. But I guess they're not known for subtlety.


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 13, 2016)

CH1 said:


> It's a bit difficult for most people to appreciate the "inner beauty" of Brixton Square because it is gated.
> 
> I wanted to take issue with our local councillor on a related matter
> 
> ...


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## CH1 (Jun 14, 2016)

Were you responding - or just quoting to show how shallow/deluded I am?

I suggest if you had a Brixton Square street party you don't use a sponsor whose logo  could be confused with a notorious brand of strong cider - judging from what's going on up thread. I would suggest Lidl's "Jeeves" might be appropriate. Cocktail mixer without the expense of Shrub & Shutter.


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## Gramsci (Jun 14, 2016)

Dan U said:


> Everyone doing shit loads of ketamine?



An acquaintance of mine was telling me about Ketamine a while back. He was telling me he had an out of body experience looking down at himself from above after taking it. Which he liked. 

Be interested if horses have the same. We will never know. 

My somewhat precarious mental health means I steer well clear.

Each to his own though.


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## Gramsci (Jun 14, 2016)

urbanspaceman said:


> We've got a bigger problem than estate agents' boards; street parties _themselves_ are terrible things:
> 
> " 'a_ front for a middle-class nationalism that celebrates the cruelty of austerity, and recasts the British empire as a force for good', sadomasochistic, imperialist, racist-adjacent, twee, colonialist, and 'middel class'_ ", according to the Guardian's Dawn Foster:
> 
> ...



I have been to leanderman street party before and must say its nothing like the Queens Pall Mall effort. 

But that kind of nationalism is alive and well. Got a leaflet from Colonel Richard Kemp telling me to vote leave EU. As staying in would mean that we would be forced to join an EU army. May even have to buy small arms from the Belgiums  and share our aircraft carrier with the French.  Oh the indignity of it for a once proud nation.


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## CH1 (Jun 14, 2016)

Angellic said:


> This is what it looks like. E2A Or will.View attachment 88388 View attachment 88389


A brief Google around for historic images yields nothing (for me).
I don't like the façade very much. The cgi shows the addition to the south adding to what is already a totalitarian looking frontage.
Try the Jonathan Meades film on Nazi architecture and you'll see what I mean.

And the manic mansard - like a World War II radar antenna frozen in time just makes my teeth grate.

Sorry and all that - I'm a Gaudi man. The only "nice" recent development in Lambeth IMHO is Mary Seacole House II in Clapham High Street.


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## teuchter (Jun 14, 2016)

CH1 said:


> A brief Google around for historic images yields nothing (for me).
> I don't like the façade very much. The cgi shows the addition to the south adding to what is already a totalitarian looking frontage.
> Try the Jonathan Meades film on Nazi architecture and you'll see what I mean.
> 
> ...



Actually the stylistic eclecticism they seem to be attempting is arguably more in line with Meades more recent take on Mussolini era totalitarian architecture (still on iplayer I think)

Ben Building: Mussolini, Monuments and Modernism


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## CH1 (Jun 14, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> An acquaintance of mine was telling me about Ketamine a while back. He was telling me he had an out of body experience looking down at himself from above after taking it. Which he liked.
> 
> Be interested if horses have the same. We will never know.
> 
> ...


I'm intrigued myself - being almost a virgin in the drugs department.
I have read that Ketamine kind of rots the bladder - which sorts rather undesirable.
The Nursing Times is informative on both counts Addressing ketamine bladder syndrome


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 14, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Were you responding - or just quoting to show how shallow/deluded I am?
> 
> I suggest if you had a Brixton Square street party you don't use a sponsor whose logo  could be confused with a notorious brand of strong cider - judging from what's going on up thread. I would suggest Lidl's "Jeeves" might be appropriate. Cocktail mixer without the expense of Shrub & Shutter.


Ha ha ha no sponsors required, we are a community so we will all chip in


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## SpamMisery (Jun 14, 2016)

House prices in London up 14.5% in the year to April according to ONS. Mental. Anyone know if ONS or elsewhere breaks out price changes by borough? I grabbed that stat off BBC news.

Be interesting to see if price increases in this area are markedly different to other postcodes over the last few years


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## teuchter (Jun 14, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> House prices in London up 14.5% in the year to April according to ONS. Mental. Anyone know if ONS or elsewhere breaks out price changes by borough? I grabbed that stat off BBC news.
> 
> Be interesting to see if price increases in this area are markedly different to other postcodes over the last few years


UK House Price Index England: April 2016 - GOV.UK


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 14, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> House prices in London up 14.5% in the year to April according to ONS. Mental. Anyone know if ONS or elsewhere breaks out price changes by borough? I grabbed that stat off BBC news.
> 
> Be interesting to see if price increases in this area are markedly different to other postcodes over the last few years


from teuchers link
Inner London 12.5%
Lambeth 18.2%

e2a apols to teuchter for auto correct


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## teuchter (Jun 14, 2016)

Lewisham even more than Lambeth though.


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## trabuquera (Jun 14, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Lewisham even more than Lambeth though.



This writer (I use the term loosely) for the Spectator magazine's LIFE Special waxed lyrical (sort of) about Lewisham last week, for the benefit of people who usually wouldn't condescend to live in such places:

Is Lewisham really so ’orrible? | Spectator Life

(not enough s in the world)


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## cuppa tee (Jun 14, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Lewisham even more than Lambeth though.



Waltham Forest, Haringey and Newham all higher rises than Lambeth
Slough 25% ? Crossrail ?


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## teuchter (Jun 14, 2016)

Lambeth is arguably a bit unusual in that it takes a slice right through London that includes very central areas right next to the Thames as well as large-ish chunks of Z2/3 residential.

Would be interesting to see Lambeth broken down into smaller units. An extreme change around Brixton might be diluted when lumped in with all the other bits of Lambeth.


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## Pop Tart (Jun 14, 2016)

cuppa tee said:


> Waltham Forest, Haringey and Newham all higher rises than Lambeth
> Slough 25% ? Crossrail ?


Desperation?


----------



## SpamMisery (Jun 14, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Lambeth is arguably a bit unusual in that it takes a slice right through London that includes very central areas right next to the Thames as well as large-ish chunks of Z2/3 residential.
> 
> Would be interesting to see Lambeth broken down into smaller units. An extreme change around Brixton might be diluted when lumped in with all the other bits of Lambeth.



I was thinking the same. I want price changes by ward!


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## Lizzy Mac (Jun 14, 2016)

To think that I moved to Herne Hill (grew up in Shepherd's Bush) about 18 years ago as it was all I could afford...


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 14, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> To think that I moved to Herne Hill (grew up in Shepherd's Bush) about 18 years ago as it was all I could afford...


Must be hundreds of millionaires in Brixton, who didn't have a penny 20 years ago, so there is an upside.


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## friendofdorothy (Jun 14, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Must be hundreds of millionaires in Brixton, who didn't have a penny 20 years ago, so there is an upside.


* the value of investments can go down as well as up.


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## Angellic (Jun 14, 2016)

Mature olive trees for the new Canterbury Square seem an odd and extravagant choice. Would have preferred some British natives. This has no bearing on how I intend to vote in the forthcoming referendum.


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## Lizzy Mac (Jun 14, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> * the value of investments can go down as well as up.


I'd love that to happen.


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## Ms T (Jun 14, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Must be hundreds of millionaires in Brixton, who didn't have a penny 20 years ago, so there is an upside.


In what way? Having a million pound property does not make you a millionaire, unless you want to move to the Outer Hebrides. It's pretty meaningless.


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## teuchter (Jun 14, 2016)

On behalf of people from the Outer Hebrides, I take offence.


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 15, 2016)

Ms T said:


> In what way? Having a million pound property does not make you a millionaire, unless you want to move to the Outer Hebrides. It's pretty meaningless.


Not at all, I know three people who have emigrated, and a lot of the these people will be coming up to retirement, and able to downsize and have a decent amount left over to live off.


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## EastEnder (Jun 15, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Not at all, I know three people who have emigrated, and a lot of the these people will be coming up to retirement, and able to downsize and have a decent amount left over to live off.


If they have a million quid left over after selling up & downsizing, then yes, they're millionaires. If they're living in a million pound house that they still need to live in, then they're not. My phone is probably worth about 50 quid, but that doesn't mean I've got 50 quid, unless I sold my phone, in which case I would, but then I'd need to buy a new phone....


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## discobastard (Jun 15, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Must be hundreds of millionaires in Brixton, who didn't have a penny 20 years ago, so there is an upside.





friendofdorothy said:


> * the value of investments can go down as well as up.





Lizzy Mac said:


> I'd love that to happen.


What would you love to happen?  House prices to stabilise/go down generally or specifically for people in Brixton to lose money on home equity that they have had invested from up to 20 years ago?


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## Winot (Jun 15, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Not at all, I know three people who have emigrated, and a lot of the these people will be coming up to retirement, and able to downsize and have a decent amount left over to live off.



Just as an aside, I remember reading an article at the time of an earlier jump in Brixton house prices (early 2000s?) about a crime wave in Jamaica specifically associated with 'Windrushers' coming back to the island, buying large houses off the back of profits from the sale of their London property, and then being targeted by burglars.

Could have been bollocks of course.


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## Mr Retro (Jun 15, 2016)

Ms T said:


> In what way? Having a million pound property does not make you a millionaire, unless you want to move to the Outer Hebrides. It's pretty meaningless.


You don't have to move to the outer Hebrides to downsize and free yourself up a massive chunk of change though


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## brixtonblade (Jun 15, 2016)

Mr Retro said:


> You don't have to move to the outer Hebrides to downsize and free yourself up a massive chunk of change though


Also, downsizing aside, a million pound asset is a million pound asset and therefore gives all sorts of options to the owner that someone not in possession of a large asset like that has


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 15, 2016)

Winot said:


> Just as an aside, I remember reading an article at the time of an earlier jump in Brixton house prices (early 2000s?) about a crime wave in Jamaica specifically associated with 'Windrushers' coming back to the island, buying large houses off the back of profits from the sale of their London property, and then being targeted by burglars.
> 
> Could have been bollocks of course.


Friend of mine sold up, moved back to Jamaica and build a big house, family members told him to move out as they were taking it over and if he refused they would CHOP HIM. He refused and they burnt his house to the ground, one of the family is now living in a hut with a corrugated roof on his land. So yes I believe your story.


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 15, 2016)

teuchter said:


> On behalf of people from the Outer Hebrides, I take offence.


House prices in Bolton are 40% cheaper than they were 8 years ago


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> If they have a million quid left over after selling up & downsizing, then yes, they're millionaires. If they're living in a million pound house that they still need to live in, then they're not. My phone is probably worth about 50 quid, but that doesn't mean I've got 50 quid, unless I sold my phone, in which case I would, but then I'd need to buy a new phone....


You could sell your phone, buy a cheaper phone and invest your equity


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## choochi (Jun 15, 2016)

My Gran sold her South London house (not Brixton but not far away), downsized to something smaller here and built a house in Jamaica and now splits her time between the two. When she's here she turns the house in Jamica into a fortress as she doesn't trust anyone to look after it,to not break into it or take it over for themselves. She's a bit alienated from the wider community because her house is so big so she is seen as flash (a gentrifier?), which I suppose she is compared to the levels of poverty in the area. Although in practice she was a hard-working auxiliary nurse from the Windrush generation that happened to benefit from rising house prices in the UK. As she has spent so long away from Jamaica that they now call her foreigner, even though her home is in the same village she lived in until her mid twenties. So her dream return home has not been what she imagined. I imagine this happens a lot. Yes strangely my Dad still insists he is going to retire there.


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## editor (Jun 15, 2016)

> Maybe they can have Loowatt luxury loos next year. I used them at the Lambeth Country Show last year and they were clean and premium. It’s also great to know they are waterless and good for the planet. Totally worth the price!


... was the comment from 'Katie' that was posted up in response to the Buzz article about the Found Festival.


> And by some AMAZING coincidence, we’ve just received a press release from Loowatt luxury loos telling us that they will indeed by using their loos at the Country Show.
> 
> And by an even bigger coincidence, their IP address exactly matches yours. So now we HATE Loowatt luxury loos and their deceitful spamming ways.


... was my reply.


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## EastEnder (Jun 15, 2016)

brixtonblade said:


> Also, downsizing aside, a million pound asset is a million pound asset and therefore gives all sorts of options to the owner that someone not in possession of a large asset like that has


I don't think anyone's arguing that having a million pound house isn't a huge plus, just that it doesn't, in itself, make someone a millionaire.


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## discobastard (Jun 15, 2016)

editor said:


> ... was the comment from 'Katie' that was posted up in response to the Buzz article about the Found Festival.
> ... was my reply.


'They were clean and premium' LOL. 

For a sector that is by its very definition about 'public relations', you do have to question whether they've ever met a real person before.  Because I've never met a real person that talks like that. 

If that's somebody from a PR agency rather than the company itself I'd sack em immediately for having so little imagination.


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## leanderman (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> I don't think anyone's arguing that having a million pound house isn't a huge plus, just that it doesn't, in itself, make someone a millionaire.



And inflation has stripped the word 'millionaire' of much of its currency.

ETA: the number rose 41pc from 2010 to 2015: One in 65 adults in Britain is now a millionaire - study


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## editor (Jun 15, 2016)

leanderman said:


> And inflation has stripped the word 'millionaire' of much of its currency.


I'm sure it still holds plenty of currency for many, many millions of people in this country who aren't lucky enough to be sitting on their own million-pound pile of property.


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## Lizzy Mac (Jun 15, 2016)

discobastard said:


> What would you love to happen?  House prices to stabilise/go down generally or specifically for people in Brixton to lose money on home equity that they have had invested from up to 20 years ago?


I'd love property prices to go down so that someone on a relatively low income, like I was when I bought my first one, could buy a flat.  My deposit 18 years ago was £1000.00.  I'd like realistic goals like that again.
I doubt that anyone who invested in property in Brixton over 20 years ago would go into negative equity or lose out much if that happened.  My economics degree is in the post so I have no practical solutions I'm afraid.


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## leanderman (Jun 15, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> I'd love property prices to go down so that someone on a relatively low income, like I was when I bought my first one, could buy a flat.  My deposit 18 years ago was £1000.00.  I'd like realistic goals like that again.



Agreed. To cause a house price collapse is the only reason I would vote for Brexit.


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 15, 2016)

choochi said:


> My Gran sold her South London house (not Brixton but not far away), downsized to something smaller here and built a house in Jamaica and now splits her time between the two. When she's here she turns the house in Jamica into a fortress as she doesn't trust anyone to look after it,to not break into it or take it over for themselves. She's a bit alienated from the wider community because her house is so big so she is seen as flash (a gentrifier?), which I suppose she is compared to the levels of poverty in the area. Although in practice she was a hard-working auxiliary nurse from the Windrush generation that happened to benefit from rising house prices in the UK. As she has spent so long away from Jamaica that they now call her foreigner, even though her home is in the same village she lived in until her mid twenties. So her dream return home has not been what she imagined. I imagine this happens a lot. Yes strangely my Dad still insists he is going to retire there.


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## Lizzy Mac (Jun 15, 2016)

These stories are amazing me.


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## EastEnder (Jun 15, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> I'd love property prices to go down so that someone on a relatively low income, like I was when I bought my first one, could buy a flat.  My deposit 18 years ago was £1000.00.  I'd like realistic goals like that again.
> I doubt that anyone who invested in property in Brixton over 20 years ago would go into negative equity or lose out much if that happened.  My economics degree is in the post so I have no practical solutions I'm afraid.


So people who were lucky enough to buy years ago when property was cheap & now have loads of equity would be fine, but those who bought more recently by taking out big mortgages would be screwed... is that a fair solution?


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 15, 2016)

choochi said:


> My Gran sold her South London house (not Brixton but not far away), downsized to something smaller here and built a house in Jamaica and now splits her time between the two. When she's here she turns the house in Jamica into a fortress as she doesn't trust anyone to look after it,to not break into it or take it over for themselves. She's a bit alienated from the wider community because her house is so big so she is seen as flash (a gentrifier?), which I suppose she is compared to the levels of poverty in the area. Although in practice she was a hard-working auxiliary nurse from the Windrush generation that happened to benefit from rising house prices in the UK. As she has spent so long away from Jamaica that they now call her foreigner, even though her home is in the same village she lived in until her mid twenties. So her dream return home has not been what she imagined. I imagine this happens a lot. Yes strangely my Dad still insists he is going to retire there.


Unfortunately I've heard this story a hundred times, my friends father retired to Jamaica after selling his house in Ferndale Road for £660,000, immediately on return he was referred to as ENGLISHMAN even by people he grew up with, had family members and friends begging at his door, the more he gave the more people knocked on his door, he had to ring his son to go over and sort things out.


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> So people who were lucky enough to buy years ago when property was cheap & now have loads of equity would be fine, but those who bought more recently by taking out big mortgages would be screwed... is that a fair solution?


Obviously I wouldn't want that. I did say that I had no solutions.  I just think that decent housing for all is a right.


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## EastEnder (Jun 15, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> Obviously I wouldn't want that. I did say that I had no solutions.  I just think that decent housing for all is a right.


Absolutely. Legislate to force developers to build practical, unglamorous sensibly priced housing rather than endless luxury flats; tax second home owners & buy-to-letters into extinction; mandate a huge new program of social housing construction. It should be perfectly possible to make the housing market cool off & taper down gradually, without inducing a crash that would be negative for the economy as a whole.


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## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 15, 2016)

leanderman said:


> Agreed. To cause a house price collapse is the only reason I would vote for Brexit.


Ohhhhhh great so I've got a £700,000 property with no mortgage and I lose £200,000 overnight boooo hoo I'm selling up  before Brexit, seriously I've got loads of equity but would welcome a crash, in the great words of Mr Spock "The needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few"


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## Yossarian (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> Absolutely. Legislate to force developers to build practical, unglamorous sensibly priced housing rather than endless luxury flats; tax second home owners & buy-to-letters into extinction; mandate a huge new program of social housing construction. It should be perfectly possible to make the housing market cool off & taper down gradually, without inducing a crash that would be negative for the economy as a whole.



"Crash" is a relative term - I think at this point, even a return to the prices considered ridiculous in 2013 or 2014 would be called a property crash. Though a much deeper crash might help bring back the idea that homes are for living in, not investing in.


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## leanderman (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> Absolutely. Legislate to force developers to build practical, unglamorous sensibly priced housing rather than endless luxury flats; tax second home owners & buy-to-letters into extinction; mandate a huge new program of social housing construction. It should be perfectly possible to make the housing market cool off & taper down gradually, without inducing a crash that would be negative for the economy as a whole.



But, since this doesn't seem likely, a house price shock might be more useful - to bring things back to some sort of affordability.


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## leanderman (Jun 15, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Ohhhhhh great so I've got a £700,000 property with no mortgage and I lose £200,000 overnight boooo hoo I'm selling up  before Brexit, seriously I've got loads of equity but would welcome a crash, in the great words of Mr Spock "The needs of the many far outweigh the needs of the few"



I think that means you agree with me. People who have bought recently could lose out, but only if they sell up.


----------



## EastEnder (Jun 15, 2016)

Yossarian said:


> "Crash" is a relative term - I think at this point, even a return to the prices considered ridiculous in 2013 or 2014 would be called a property crash. Though a much deeper crash might help bring back the idea that homes are for living in, not investing in.


The problem is that a crash does nothing to address the shortage of housing - it's a supply & demand issue. If prices crash, builders will be far less inclined to build new houses, buy-to-letters who can afford to weather the storm will hold onto to their investments in the expectation of an future upturn, and many people will find themselves in negative equity. None of which would do anything to address the real issue, which is the lack of housing for those who need it. Whereas increasing the housing stock & disincentivising immoral property investors might be a better way to go.


----------



## leanderman (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> Whereas increasing the housing stock & disincentivising immoral property investors might be a better way to go.



But is either likely? And the demand side might be seen as pretty much limitless, Brexit or not.

Mind you, no one foresaw Osborne finally starting to rein in BTL.


----------



## EastEnder (Jun 15, 2016)

leanderman said:


> But is either likely? And the demand side might be seen as pretty much limitless, Brexit or not.
> 
> Mind you, no one foresaw Osborne finally starting to rein in BTL.


No, neither is likely. But I still don't see how a crash helps anyone either. Prices might fall dramatically, so more people could afford to buy, but who are they going to buy from? Builders will stop building new homes if there's not enough money in it, people in negative equity will be utterly unable to sell, so it's only housing stock being sold by those who already have enough equity to cope with the crash. I really don't see how that opens up the market much?  It just seems like a way of inflicting great pain on many who are blameless, whilst the foreign investors, buy-to-letters & baby boomers will come away relatively unscathed.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> The problem is that a crash does nothing to address the shortage of housing - it's a supply & demand issue. If prices crash, builders will be far less inclined to build new houses, buy-to-letters who can afford to weather the storm will hold onto to their investments in the expectation of an future upturn, and many people will find themselves in negative equity. None of which would do anything to address the real issue, which is the lack of housing for those who need it. Whereas increasing the housing stock & disincentivising immoral property investors might be a better way to go.



Yes that's true on the supply side. On the demand side the question is what's caused the crash. If it's because foreign investors aren't parking their money in London property any more then maybe it helps some people to get houses who otherwise wouldn't. If it's because there's been another massive recession and loads of people have lost their jobs then it's unlikely to help much. All crashes aren't equal basically.


----------



## Winot (Jun 15, 2016)

You make some good points EastEnder.


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## leanderman (Jun 15, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yes that's true on the supply side. On the demand side the question is what's caused the crash. If it's because foreign investors aren't parking their money in London property any more then maybe it helps some people to get houses who otherwise wouldn't. If it's because there's been another massive recession and loads of people have lost their jobs then it's unlikely to help much. All crashes aren't equal basically.



Good analysis of all this by my neighbour: The financialisation of UK homes


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 15, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> I'd love property prices to go down so that someone on a relatively low income, like I was when I bought my first one, could buy a flat.  My deposit 18 years ago was £1000.00.  I'd like realistic goals like that again.
> I doubt that anyone who invested in property in Brixton over 20 years ago would go into negative equity or lose out much if that happened.  My economics degree is in the post so I have no practical solutions I'm afraid.


 What would be sensible if working people with modest savings could afford to rent or buy - like was before Thatcher encouraged everyone to treat their home as a stock market investment. 



Yossarian said:


> "Crash" is a relative term - I think at this point, even a return to the prices considered ridiculous in 2013 or 2014 would be called a property crash. Though a much deeper crash might help bring back the idea that homes are for living in, not investing in.


 I recall the crash in the late 80s, house prices nearly halved, then prices stayed low for the nearly decade.  It was tough for couples who had bought flats the size of a rabbit hutch then wanted to split up but couldn't sell and couldn't afford to move.


----------



## brixtonblade (Jun 15, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> I don't think anyone's arguing that having a million pound house isn't a huge plus, just that it doesn't, in itself, make someone a millionaire.


Well it goes a long way.  If someones assets less their liabilities are a million or more then I don't see how they're not a millionaire. So if the house is worth lots and the mortgage isn't big then it's not hard to see how lots of normal people are millionaires. 
Which of course isn't to say they can live like a film star style millionaire.  But it does mean they've got a lot of options and privileges available to them in large part just because of property appreciation.


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## brixtonblade (Jun 15, 2016)

leanderman said:


> Good analysis of all this by my neighbour: The financialisation of UK homes


The suggestions seem sensible but they're not very detailed. 
The point about security of tenancy is interesting. If tenancies were longer than a year I'd have thought it would take some heat out of rate of rent rises.


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## editor (Jun 15, 2016)

I've suggested that they go to the police...


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## T & P (Jun 15, 2016)

Is he security or a punter?


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## CH1 (Jun 16, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> So people who were lucky enough to buy years ago when property was cheap & now have loads of equity would be fine, but those who bought more recently by taking out big mortgages would be screwed... is that a fair solution?


Presumably the fairest solution would be to reintroduce a realistically high rate of inflation - say 5 - 10% power anum.

Given that there is no generally accepted way of writing off debts the only proven effective way is to allow inflation to do it for us.

One way of doing this would be to embark on a programme of council houe building - which would simultaneously ramp up government spending to inflation busting levels - whilst simultaneously forcing down rent levels by introducing subsidised competition.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 16, 2016)

editor said:


> I've suggested that they go to the police...




He looks like the geezer behind him and most of the grezers that go to see bands from that era...fat and bald and white....

Like a bowl of grapes


----------



## alex_ (Jun 16, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Presumably the fairest solution would be to reintroduce a realistically high rate of inflation - say 5 - 10% power anum.
> 
> Given that there is no generally accepted way of writing off debts the only proven effective way is to allow inflation to do it for us.
> 
> One way of doing this would be to embark on a programme of council houe building - which would simultaneously ramp up government spending to inflation busting levels - whilst simultaneously forcing down rent levels by introducing subsidised competition.



What do you think will happen to pay and benefits while inflation is running at 10% ?

What do you think the impact of that would be on the economy and individuals ?

What we actually need is enough house building ( by anyone) to keep prices flat, for long enough for wages to catch up. The longer it takes the less politically sensitive it will be, and therefore the more likely it is to happen.

Alex


----------



## CH1 (Jun 16, 2016)

alex_ said:


> What do you think will happen to pay and benefits while inflation is running at 10% ?
> What do you think the impact of that would be on the economy and individuals ?
> What we actually need is enough house building ( by anyone) to keep prices flat, for long enough for wages to catch up. The longer it takes the less politically sensitive it will be, and therefore the more likely it is to happen.
> Alex


Your comment about house building is key to this.

There is a huge amount of house building right now - only in London particularly it is producing accommodation only suitable for "dinkies" ** or gay couples as far as I can see. Additionally design seems to be dictated by the wishes of foreign investors used to tower block living in serviced blocks.

I would suggest that the large developers have perfected a means to suck money from the FUTURE INCOME of apartment buyers into their balance sheets NOW. This system is unstable, as it will leave future economic activity curtailed in order to satisfy the demands of the property sector - unless there is a general inflation.

I think what is needed is market intervention by government/local government to provide social housing - as was done by the LCC in the 1920s -1960s.
The usual excuse of "no money" is clearly nonsense. In the 1920s the LCC funded its house building programme by issuing bonds on the stock market. This would not only be easy right now - it would be welcomed by investors - including pension firms, banks etc.

** dinkies = dual income no kids




n


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2016)

Free thing this Saturday 
Celebrating the Musical Festival in Lambeth – free event in Windrush Square, Sat June 18th


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Your comment about house building is key to this.
> 
> There is a huge amount of house building right now - only in London particularly it is producing accommodation only suitable for "dinkies" ** or gay couples as far as I can see. Additionally design seems to be dictated by the wishes of foreign investors used to tower block living in serviced blocks.
> 
> ...


Yep. Absolutely shit loads of actual social housing is the only way to fix this fucking mess.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Yep. Absolutely shit loads of actual social housing is the only way to fix this fucking mess.


This would increase competition in the housing sector. Something these right wing idealogues ought to appreciate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Yep. Absolutely shit loads of actual social housing is the only way to fix this fucking mess.


oh the housing's being built but for some reason - incompetence, no doubt - it is being sold for extortionate prices.

expropriate the developers and owners and move in the working class.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2016)

CH1 said:


> This would increase competition in the housing sector. Something these right wing idealogues ought to appreciate.


Oh, and I'd introduce massive fines for private developers trying to wriggle out of their affordable provisions.


----------



## dbs1fan (Jun 16, 2016)

Is the new Post Office on Ferndale Rd operating?  If so, what time does it open in the morning?


----------



## alex_ (Jun 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Yep. Absolutely shit loads of actual social housing is the only way to fix this fucking mess.



Why only social housing ?

Any house building would fix it, probably about 225k houses per year for 20 years - iirc 200k per year is required to keep prices flat. If this issue is going to be fixed there has to be a cross party commitment because it going to take 20 or 30 years to fix. 

This is going to become more and more of a cross party issue as increasing numbers of people are priced out of housing.

The biggest issue is going to be dealing with nimbies - 225k homes per year is a lot of building.

Alex


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2016)

alex_ said:


> Why only social housing ?
> 
> Any house building would fix it, probably about 225k houses per year for 20 years - iirc 200k per year is required to keep prices flat. If this issue is going to be fixed there has to be a cross party commitment because it going to take 20 or 30 years to fix.
> 
> ...


Because we've gone from a society that once housed 42% of its population in social housing to just 8%. And into that vacuum the greedy landlords, buy-to-letters, developers and investors have all dived in and exploited so many people with low incomes.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 16, 2016)

dbs1fan said:


> Is the new Post Office on Ferndale Rd operating?  If so, what time does it open in the morning?


Same time as the old one (so the notice ion the window says).
Closes at 6pm - can't remember  when it opens - probably 8.30 I should think.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 16, 2016)

alex_ said:


> Why only social housing ?
> 
> Any house building would fix it, probably about 225k houses per year for 20 years - iirc 200k per year is required to keep prices flat. If this issue is going to be fixed there has to be a cross party commitment because it going to take 20 or 30 years to fix.
> 
> ...


 I don't think 'any house building' will fix it - not while the London property market is fueled by rich overseas buyers driving the demand for 'luxury appartments' and then leaving them empty. These aren't homes just a parking place for their wealth. 
what I think would help:

Rules/tax/ penalties for overseas nationals buying property - to encourage occupation and discourage investment in empty houses. 

Rules/tax/ penalties for leaving houses empty. 

Tightening up money laundering rules for anonymous companies buying property.
Decriminalising squatting of empty / unlived in properties

Rent controls 

changes to tenancies - longer ASTs.
real bedroom tax - ie financial penalty /tax of on empty bedrooms in big private houses - not as a withdrawal of benefits to the poorest.

stop councils selling off flats and allow them to buy them back where they can. 

stop councils 'regenerating' public housing with out the tenants consent.
Redefine 'affordable' housing linked to average earnings (not as % of market prices)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Oh, and I'd introduce massive fines for private developers trying to wriggle out of their affordable provisions.



With perhaps a bit of corporal punishment thrown in? Just some mild stuff like an hour in the Stocks!


----------



## Angellic (Jun 16, 2016)

Home

They were holding their launch party in the ground floor of the new Junction block. I wonder how they define community housing.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 16, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't think 'any house building' will fix it - not while the London property market is fueled by rich overseas buyers driving the demand for 'luxury appartments' and then leaving them empty. These aren't homes just a parking place for their wealth.
> what I think would help:
> 
> Rules/tax/ penalties for overseas nationals buying property - to encourage occupation and discourage investment in empty houses.
> ...


Not so keen on the bedroom tax for private houses. But if you are really sold on that there is a local advocate basedin Herne Hill:
Advisory Board | The Intergenerational Foundation


----------



## discobastard (Jun 16, 2016)

dbs1fan said:


> Is the new Post Office on Ferndale Rd operating?  If so, what time does it open in the morning?


Googled it for you. 

I'm not responsible for the accuracy of information on external sites.


----------



## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 17, 2016)

dbs1fan said:


> Is the new Post Office on Ferndale Rd operating?  If so, what time does it open in the morning?


Even the post office looks gentrified


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Even the post office looks gentrified


They send your packages in PO-approved  brioche buns now.


----------



## alex_ (Jun 17, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> the London property market is fueled by rich overseas buyers driving the demand for 'luxury appartments' and then leaving them empty. These aren't homes just a parking place for their wealth.



This is only happening because they are going up in value (and the pound is relatively stable   Vs the rouble/renminbi/etc) faster than other investments.

If they stop rising in value, these people will take their money elsewhere.

Any building will fix this, and is more likely too in the short medium term. I can't imagine the market for luxury flats in Knightsbridge is that affected by the quantity/price of social homes elsewhere in London.

I'm not saying that social homes are not desirable, but if things are to genuinely change we need more homes at every price point/size/location possible.

I'd add to your list 

Pay council tax on homes from the point planning permission is approved.
Change council tax to a property value tax (based on the last buy price of the property).

Alex


----------



## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 17, 2016)

alex_ said:


> This is only happening because they are going up in value (and the pound is relatively stable   Vs the rouble/renminbi/etc) faster than other investments.
> 
> If they stop rising in value, these people will take their money elsewhere.
> 
> ...


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2016)

Is the buy-to-leave thing actually such a major issue, relative to all the other things that are affecting housing costs?

The figures I can find are:

Estimate of 22,000 empty properties in Greater London, out of total 3.4 million (0.7%)
8,560 vacant for more than 2 years (0.3%)

The number of 22,000 is down from an estimate in 2004 of 44,000.

The percentage of empty properties in central London boroughs like Kensington & Chelsea is higher than London overall, but still only 2%.

Are these numbers really big enough to have a major impact on prices generally? It seems to me like it might be a bit of a red herring; something that's easy to complain about but a distraction from the underlying causes.

Also, the areas with the greatest percentage of empty properties are all in the N of England, not London.

‘It’s like a ghost town’: lights go out as foreign owners desert London homes

Tens of thousands of London homes deemed 'long-term vacant'


----------



## Angellic (Jun 17, 2016)

I found this comment on Streetlife;
 some good news. Foxton's tell me they've stopped taking any more of these high-end flats onto their books in our area: the market's saturated & this type of new build is simply not selling. The area will stop being so attractive to developers & the opportunity for the Council to sell off anything that moves will reduce. I think the arrival of the American Embassy is a plus: brought a much-needed transport link to a (relatively) deprived area; will improve security in the area & policing; bring in spending to the local area & businesses.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Even the post office looks gentrified


It does now - give it a few months.........


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 17, 2016)

Angellic said:


> I found this comment on Streetlife;
> some good news. Foxton's tell me they've stopped taking any more of these high-end flats onto their books in our area: the market's saturated & this type of new build is simply not selling. The area will stop being so attractive to developers & the opportunity for the Council to sell off anything that moves will reduce. I think the arrival of the American Embassy is a plus: brought a much-needed transport link to a (relatively) deprived area; will improve security in the area & policing; bring in spending to the local area & businesses.



Where does that refer to? Vauxhall? 

Most of the new flats aren't sold that way - they go through different brokers, not Foxtons. Can't say I agree with their last line!


----------



## Angellic (Jun 17, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Where does that refer to? Vauxhall?
> 
> Most of the new flats aren't sold that way - they go through different brokers, not Foxtons. Can't say I agree with their last line!



I'll find out.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jun 17, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Is the buy-to-leave thing actually such a major issue, relative to all the other things that are affecting housing costs?
> 
> The figures I can find are:
> 
> ...



Good point. I suspect the 22K no. is an underestimate. I think when we say empty  that means really no one there. Other empty flats might be lived in only marginally but may not count in the figures because of this. The block in Old Street is an example of the buy to leave but  as you say is it really so widespread.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2016)

Brixton has been Bremained











Brits Don’t Quit: Brixton gets plastered in pro-EU posters ahead of national referendum on 23rd June


----------



## CH1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Angellic said:


> I found this comment on Streetlife;


I had a leaflet through the door asking me to enrol with Streetlife the other day.

Sounded a bit like Urban75 - but of course the demographic could be wildly different.

Can you give us a review?

Imagine Streetlife in Windsor - all those equerries giving the low down on life below the royal stairs!


----------



## CH1 (Jun 17, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Where does that refer to? Vauxhall?
> 
> Most of the new flats aren't sold that way - they go through different brokers, not Foxtons. Can't say I agree with their last line!


Are you suggesting they would have built the Northern Line extension even without the American Embassy?
Maybe they would - but in 2050.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 17, 2016)

No, not the infrastructure bit; just the increased safety etc. which basically means closing down the nightclubs, bringing in BID wardens who stroll around the parks annoying people etc.


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 17, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't think 'any house building' will fix it - not while the London property market is fueled by rich overseas buyers driving the demand for 'luxury appartments' and then leaving them empty. These aren't homes just a parking place for their wealth.
> what I think would help:
> 
> Rules/tax/ penalties for overseas nationals buying property - to encourage occupation and discourage investment in empty houses.
> ...


Interestingly I am seeing a growing number of older single people or couples living in huge houses (family flown the nest) renting out rooms often to younger people and below 'market' rent. The oldies seem to like having youngsters around and the youngsters seem to like living in beautiful homes with great facilities!


----------



## trabuquera (Jun 17, 2016)

Not strictly Brixton but for anyone who has to bus/tube it around the borough a lot - Lambeth North Tube station is gonna be closed from July to November (at least) this year - upgrading the lifts they say.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2016)

The tiniest of photo features. But it does come with a song.







A rainy night in Brixton: Windrush Square in photos


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> No, not the infrastructure bit; just the increased safety etc. which basically means closing down the nightclubs, bringing in BID wardens who stroll around the parks annoying people etc.


They're now funding 'street pastors'


> Brixton BID is setting up a crowd funding campaign to raise enough money for 10 additional Street Pastors to be trained to join the dedicated Brixton team of volunteers.
> 
> Lambeth Street Pastors started on the streets of Brixton in 2013. They are here to listen, care and help, handing out bottles of water, collecting broken glass from pavements and helping people get home safely after a night out.
> 
> ...


:


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 17, 2016)

alex_ said:


> This is only happening because they are going up in value (and the pound is relatively stable   Vs the rouble/renminbi/etc) faster than other investments.
> 
> If they stop rising in value, these people will take their money elsewhere.
> 
> ...


But we aren't talking about Knightbridge or central london here.  Haven't you heard the new Heygate estate in Elephant (formerly 2700+ Southwark council flats) was being mainly marketed in the far east. I wounder where Battersea power station developement is being sold?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 17, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> Interestingly I am seeing a growing number of older single people or couples living in huge houses (family flown the nest) renting out rooms often to younger people and below 'market' rent. The oldies seem to like having youngsters around and the youngsters seem to like living in beautiful homes with great facilities!


 Thats great - but many people don't bother to take in lodgers, particulary if they don't need the money.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 17, 2016)

editor said:


> They're now funding 'street pastors'
> :


That's Brixton BID (and street pastors of that type have been around for a while), I think we were discussing the Vauxhall BID - purple jacketed people who seem to think that they have some public authority in public spaces.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 17, 2016)

There was a really nasty street preacher outside Iceland again today. Tall slim man in a blue shirt, with a baseball cap and amplification, who manages to say 'JESUS!' every other word. He was giving me a headache but not really saying much the other day.  I'm normally fairly tolerent of the shouty Jesus types - it's a free country. 

Today he pointed to a group of young people some of whom were wearing muslim style headscarves, saying that they didn't believe in god, that they were 'the antichrist' and that they would go to hell, other generally hateful things. So I had a go at him - I'm narky and menopausal and cannot bear intolerence!  I started shouting at him - quoting new testament at him.  He shouted that god hates me too. I reminding him that Jesus said to love one another. (see my convent school education wasn't a waste, even if I am atheist now) 

What an advert for Christianity.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2016)

We need more street-preacher hecklers.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 17, 2016)

editor said:


> They're now funding 'street pastors'
> :


I don't have any particular preference about street pastors - but it does occur to me that if they are doing it for "funding" it might cease to earn years off purgatory etc. since it is no longer a "sacrifice" to use Christian terminology.

Actually I do have one (negative) preference - if it was UCKG I would be alarmed. Particularly if UCKG had found a way to get council money for pushing their homophobic agenda.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 17, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> Thats great - but many people don't bother to take in lodgers, particulary if they don't need the money.


There is also the issue of how to remove people who you don't get on with.

Technically you don't have to go to court - but I had to once because Lambeth don't accept people on the waiting list unless they are properly evicted.

My tenant ended up with a council flat about 4 years later after I had to evict him - but the eviction put him on the council waiting list. Meanwhile the judge's attitude to me was pretty negative - I left court feeling like Rachman exposed.

I agree with sparkybird's sentiment. Maybe someone should set up a sort of charity Airbnb to encourage older people with plenty of space to house compatible people needing reasonably priced accommodation. It could have positive social value in reducing isolation etc as well.


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 17, 2016)

It's surprising, but some of them definitely don't need the money.... and some I know do. 

CH1  - yes, great idea! A friend of mine who's the wrong side of 60 does Airbnb not only for a bit of cash and to meet some interesting people....so there's scope

I also have a writer friend who was living for about 2 years with an old guy who needed help (with shopping/house maintenance not bum wiping!). The deal was that he stayed rent free, helped out and also could pursue his writing. Second novel just being published. This is a great idea and TBH something I reckon I would consider in my dotage...


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 17, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I agree with sparkybird's sentiment. Maybe someone should set up a sort of charity Airbnb to encourage older people with plenty of space to house compatible people needing reasonably priced accommodation. It could have positive social value in reducing isolation etc as well.



That exists - I've been trying to remember the UK model, but can't get my memory to work on stuff from 3+ years ago. Will dig it out.


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 17, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> There was a really nasty street preacher outside Iceland again today. ...
> 
> What an advert for Christianity.


It's important that the moderate Christian community condemn the extremists at every turn. Otherwise the moderate Christians are giving the extremists the idea that their hatred is acceptable.


----------



## alex_ (Jun 17, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> But we aren't talking about Knightbridge or central london here.  Haven't you heard the new Heygate estate in Elephant (formerly 2700+ Southwark council flats) was being mainly marketed in the far east. I wounder where Battersea power station developement is being sold?



It is a viscous circle, Asian buyers want to buy appreciating assets in a stable currency. Sellers want to sell to them. Leaseholders who are never there or estate agencies are probably easier/cheaper to manage than live in owners too. 

Alex


----------



## alex_ (Jun 17, 2016)

This is a broken quote. I think you've misunderstood what I wrote - developers who are sitting on 2000 flats of planning permission should pay council tax from the day that it is granted (though maybe there should be some sort of discount) you want to encourage them to sell the houses ASAP, not drop them on the market one per week

Alex


----------



## tompound (Jun 17, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> That exists - I've been trying to remember the UK model, but can't get my memory to work on stuff from 3+ years ago. Will dig it out.



The girl who set up a platform to do something along these lines was based in Brixton for a while, not sure where she is now: A New Kind of Home Sharing Network - ROOM FOR TEA


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2016)

Now, that's what I call a hipster!

Edit to add: that pram doesn't look cheap, does it? It should come with a craft beer holder for extra points, mind.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2016)

The nuclear dawn mural is getting well fucked up these days 
boohoo


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Jun 17, 2016)

editor said:


> View attachment 88578
> 
> Now, that's what I call a hipster!
> 
> Edit to add: that pram doesn't look cheap, does it? It should come with a craft beer holder for extra points, mind.


Did the baby have a beard?


----------



## brixtonblade (Jun 17, 2016)

editor said:


> The nuclear dawn mural is getting well fucked up these days
> boohoo
> 
> View attachment 88579


That's shit


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 18, 2016)

alex_ said:


> Why only social housing ?
> ex



Because it would be a good first step towards removing housing from being a commodity.


----------



## Angellic (Jun 18, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I don't have any particular preference about street pastors - but it does occur to me that if they are doing it for "funding" it might cease to earn years off purgatory etc. since it is no longer a "sacrifice" to use Christian terminology.
> 
> Actually I do have one (negative) preference - if it was UCKG I would be alarmed. Particularly if UCKG had found a way to get council money for pushing their homophobic agenda.



So. Is a street pastor a Christian counsellor and cleaner?


----------



## Angellic (Jun 18, 2016)

editor said:


> View attachment 88578
> 
> Now, that's what I call a hipster!
> 
> Edit to add: that pram doesn't look cheap, does it? It should come with a craft beer holder for extra points, mind.



He's probably an accountant. I imagine the hippest hipsters no longer have beards.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 18, 2016)

Angellic said:


> So. Is a street pastor a Christian counsellor and cleaner?


What I've seen on TV:
1. Clapham High Street: kindly middle aged people who retrieve lost high heeled shoes for women who are intoxicated and allow them to rest - in the foyer of the Methodist Church opposite the Two Brewers.

2. Deptford High Street: Nigerian evangelists who hustle the Special Brew drinkers to the point where they can't take it any more and move on.

In both cases the respective councils and/or BIDs (and police) no doubt approve.


----------



## alex_ (Jun 18, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> Because it would be a good first step towards removing housing from being a commodity.



To do that, all that needs to happen is they need to stop rising in value.

The right level of house building, by anyone will stop that.

Alex


----------



## Pop Tart (Jun 18, 2016)

I decided to have another look at Urban75   after i saw a plea recently on the Reclaim facebook page by someone I think from urban75 saying that there website was under siege by upper class types trying to close down debate and calling new members to sign up to bring back proper balance. all i have seewn so far seems very civil with lots of opinions. Is it on a different thread or am I too late and what did i miss?! 

i cant find the fb post anymore. did anyone else see it or did i imagine it?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 18, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> I decided to have another look at Urban75   after i saw a plea recently on the Reclaim facebook page by someone I think from urban75 saying that there website was under siege by upper class types trying to close down debate and calling new members to sign up to bring back proper balance. all i have seewn so far seems very civil with lots of opinions. Is it on a different thread or am I too late and what did i miss?!
> 
> i cant find the fb post anymore. did anyone else see it or did i imagine it?


Don't do fb so no idea. Don't know about 'upper class' types - but there are people living in Brixton now who, shock horror, don't agree with every word Ed says, maybe that was it. Seems to be a lot of the same debates over and over if you ask me.  Anyway welcome back - where have you been?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 18, 2016)

alex_ said:


> It is a viscous circle, Asian buyers want to buy appreciating assets in a stable currency. Sellers want to sell to them. Leaseholders who are never there or estate agencies are probably easier/cheaper to manage than live in owners too.
> 
> Alex


If you or I want to sell our homes to the highest bidder in this way I wouldn't disagree. 

But I still say our elected repressentives in govt or our local councils have no business in selling off publicly owned land or property in this way - particularly as for example Southwark have proved they are so inept* they have managed to make a loss for the tax payer at the same time. 

*I'm being generous when I say they are inept - because otherwise the only other explaination is that they are corrupt.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 18, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> If you or I want to sell our homes to the highest bidder in this way I wouldn't disagree.
> 
> But I still say our elected repressentives in govt or our local councils have no business in selling off publicly owned land or property in this way - particularly as for example Southwark have proved they are so inept* they have managed to make a loss for the tax payer at the same time.
> 
> *I'm being generous when I say they are inept - because otherwise the only other explaination is that they are corrupt.


Actually you've hit on something there.

I am bewildered by this reverence for "The Market". Nobody is obliged to follow the market at all. In fact I would argue that the Germans have been much better industrialists than the British precisely because they don't follow the market and kept firms as family concerns up to  a very high value, and also had worker representatives on the management boards.

When it comes to social housing - this was created by the likes of Peabody in the Victorian period, then adopted on an industrial scale by the LCC.

As far as I can see the Tories encouraged the growth of Housing Associations in the 1980s to be able to bring the social housing sector more closely under their control.

Now their plans are finally being consummated:

No social housing being built without at least as much again market rent or share ownership housing.

All social housing subject to right to buy

Constant churn induced by restricting right to stay in terms of earning limits, fixed term renewable tenancies etc.

The SWP/Militant etc were predicting all this in the 1980s - and it has come true (speaking as a Liberal).

I think Alex is wrong about the right amount of house building. To a free marketeer the right amount of house building is what the market determines - presumably what we have now.

Note that the market skews the house building to the wealthy end of the spectrum. That is why the LCC etc started building council housing in 1920s London.

Logically the state should launch a big building programme again - or then again they could try dispersal - like when New Towns were built (Swindon, Basingstoke, Peterborough etc) to relieve the situation in London.

However New Towns came with relocated industries. After 30 years of Thatcherite de-industrialisation there is not much of that to go round to attract the workers!


----------



## CH1 (Jun 18, 2016)

The centre of Brixton was awash with David Icke supporters around 1.15 pm.
I had felt tempted to go - particularly after I'd had a couple of pints of Westerham's Audit ale (6.2% abv) last night in the Beehive.

When I tried the website this morning the event had passed - presumably like websites which cannot book a flight on the same day.

So I was nostalgic and sad that I missed a bit of paranoia, though some of the delegates attending this extravaganza looked a bit odd - to my reptilian eye.

Seems the event finishes at 10 pm so might go to the Beehive in case I can glean any details. £43 I think - must be good!(?)


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 18, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> I decided to have another look at Urban75   after i saw a plea recently on the Reclaim facebook page by someone I think from urban75 saying that there website was under siege by upper class types trying to close down debate and calling new members to sign up to bring back proper balance. all i have seewn so far seems very civil with lots of opinions. Is it on a different thread or am I too late and what did i miss?!


I think you'll find if you hang around a bit that the claims some on here make about such people are at best inaccurate. At worst these claims are flat out lies to fit a certain narrative


----------



## Ergo Proxy (Jun 18, 2016)

CH1 said:


> The centre of Brixton was awash with David Icke supporters around 1.15 pm.
> *I had felt tempted to go* - particularly after I'd had a couple of pints of Westerham's Audit ale (6.2% abv) last night in the Beehive.



I know what you did this summer


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 18, 2016)

alex_ said:


> To do that, all that needs to happen is they need to stop rising in value.
> 
> The right level of house building, by anyone will stop that.
> 
> Alex


The underlying issue is that housing is becoming a commodity to be bought and sold. Rather than a social need thats to be met.

What I am saying is that the previous posts here on lack of housing are missing the point.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 18, 2016)

.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 18, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Actually you've hit on something there.
> 
> I am bewildered by this reverence for "The Market". Nobody is obliged to follow the market at all. In fact I would argue that the Germans have been much better industrialists than the British precisely because they don't follow the market and kept firms as family concerns up to  a very high value, and also had worker representatives on the management boards.
> 
> ...






Couldn’t put it better myself.

Thing about housing being subject to the market. Housing has now become an investment for many. But one where those who regard it as an investment think the market should not apply. That is it should always go up in value. So even moderate reforms to gradually reduce prices "taper" as Alex suggest will be politically unacceptable. So I would say that the State ( the government) is not really following the market. The idea of a "free market" is a fiction.

On housing as a commodity. Looked up Harvey the geographer. Short history of housing worth quoting as it say it all:



> All commodities have to be understood as having a use value and exchange value. If I have a steak the use value is that I can eat it and the exchange value is how much I had to pay for it.
> 
> But housing is very interesting in this way because as a use value you can understand it as shelter, privacy, a world of affective relations with people, a big list of things you use a house for. But then there is the question of how you get the house. At one time houses were built by people themselves and there was no exchange value at all. Then from the 18th century onwards you got speculative house building – Georgian terraces which were built and sold later on. Then houses became exchange values for consumers in the form of saving. If I buy a house and I pay down the mortgage on it, I can end up owning the house. So I have an asset. I therefore become very concerned about the nature of the asset. This generates interesting politics – ‘not in my backyard’, ‘I don’t want people moving in next door who don’t look like me’. So you start to get segregation in housing markets because people want to protect the value of their savings.
> 
> ...



He is using Marx here. Use Value is a social need that’s met. Housing is a good case of how Capitalism produces perverse outcomes.

The post war mass building of Council Housing was a move towards the de-commodification of housing. The Thatcherite free marketeers were quite right politically to target social housing.

Why I take issue with Alex is that the debate on housing is all on how the market functions. Not on the more fundamental question of why housing is dominated the Exchange Value. Ideologically the Thatcherite revolution moved the debate on housing


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 18, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Actually you've hit on something there.
> 
> I am bewildered by this reverence for "The Market". Nobody is obliged to follow the market at all. In fact I would argue that the Germans have been much better industrialists than the British precisely because they don't follow the market and kept firms as family concerns up to  a very high value, and also had worker representatives on the management boards.
> 
> However New Towns came with relocated industries. After 30 years of Thatcherite de-industrialisation there is not much of that to go round to attract the workers!



Reminded me of a piece by Hilton the economic writer for the Evening Standard. A mainstream writer but asks right questions.

Here he is asking about the low growth in productivity here:




> Thus the core problem is that too many businesses now think of themselves as financial engineers, not real engineers.
> 
> For years, they watched enviously as private-equity firms made fortunes because they understood how to get the stock market to put a huge value on simple cost savings.
> 
> ...



This of course is not really sustainable system. Cost cutting means reducing incomes and benefits of the workers for quick profits.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 18, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> Reminded me of a piece by Hilton the economic writer for the Evening Standard. A mainstream writer but asks right questions.


His piece on IN/OUT the other day was very good I thought. Hilton is definitely IN.
He is apparently the new William Keegan.  Mr Keegan used to write coruscating diatribes against Thatcherite economics in the Observer.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 18, 2016)

On a more immediate matter the Beehive was closed when I went an hour ago - notice in the window saying there was a problem with the water supply.
Wonder if there will be any marauding Ickists in the Craft beer? I really am itching for a review of the Son of God's latest pronouncements.


----------



## Angellic (Jun 18, 2016)

Fireworks!?


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2016)

Angellic said:


> Fireworks!?


That was a bloody big display too!

Brixton was utterly rammed around midnight. I funny think there's ever been so many drunk people/clubbers  on the streets as there are now.


----------



## Angellic (Jun 19, 2016)

editor said:


> That was a bloody big display too!
> 
> Brixton was utterly rammed around midnight. I funny think there's ever been so many drunk people/clubbers  on the streets as there are now.



Did you say drunk?


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2016)

Angellic said:


> Did you say drunk?


Juts one pint for me last night. Bloody autocorrect!


----------



## Pop Tart (Jun 19, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> Don't do fb so no idea. Don't know about 'upper class' types - but there are people living in Brixton now who, shock horror, don't agree with every word Ed says, maybe that was it. Seems to be a lot of the same debates over and over if you ask me.  Anyway welcome back - where have you been?


trying to spend less time on the internet!
sorry who is Ed?


----------



## CH1 (Jun 19, 2016)

POP Brixton due up on the Daily Politics in about 30 minutes time.
Lambeth the most pro remain place in Britain apparently. Maybe that's why there is a European Flag up at 61 Barrington Road (opposite Brixton East).


----------



## CH1 (Jun 19, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> trying to spend less time on the internet!
> sorry who is Ed?


She meant editor. And regarding the original comment - I think Urban is getting more bourgeois/less alternative over time - and I only go back (actively) about 6 years.

It's partly demographic. Some of the the old rockers have died off even [thinking of Raver Drew for example].
Then there are people who are very radical but burn out - Dexter Deadwood springs to mind.


----------



## han (Jun 19, 2016)

teuchter said:


> We need more street-preacher hecklers.


Come to Pride next weekend. Great opportunity to heckle them at the top of the stairs by the ICA.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Wonder if there will be any marauding Ickists in the Craft beer?



they probably just went to the offy........


----------



## CH1 (Jun 19, 2016)

cuppa tee said:


> they probably just went to the offy........


I did check the Craft Beer place - but no-one looked vaguely as though they had been to a David Icke revelation. (remember I had sussed out the types earlier in the day).

BTW I am deeply shocked to see DI on the Tennents. Maybe it's a false flag decoy.


----------



## brixtonblade (Jun 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> POP Brixton due up on the Daily Politics in about 30 minutes time.
> Lambeth the most pro remain place in Britain apparently. Maybe that's why there is a European Flag up at 61 Barrington Road (opposite Brixton East).


There's one on Railton Road too and one on water lane by the entrance to the park too


----------



## Pop Tart (Jun 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> She meant editor. And regarding the original comment - I think Urban is getting more bourgeois/less alternative over time - and I only go back (actively) about 6 years.


doh. obviously!


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 19, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> I decided to have another look at Urban75   after i saw a plea recently on the Reclaim facebook page by someone I think from urban75 saying that there website was under siege by upper class types trying to close down debate and calling new members to sign up to bring back proper balance. all i have seewn so far seems very civil with lots of opinions. Is it on a different thread or am I too late and what did i miss?!
> 
> i cant find the fb post anymore. did anyone else see it or did i imagine it?



You imagined it. 

You are not sure if it was a U75 poster . Or quote the post. 

Evidence please.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I BTW I am deeply shocked to see DI on the Tennents. Maybe it's a false flag decoy.


lol, in fact you are on the right track, the image is a still from a film ( possibly made by Ickes crew) that chronicled his last appearance in Brixton, it was part of an attempt to portray him as a down to earth man of the people following criticism among his followers of an ayahuasca fuelled jaunt around Peru and controversy about his wealth and financial affairs. strangely the first place I saw an Icke book on sale was in the People's Weatherman Shop


----------



## Pop Tart (Jun 19, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> You imagined it.
> 
> You are not sure if it was a U75 poster . Or quote the post.
> 
> Evidence please.


serious?


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> It's partly demographic. Some of the the old rockers have died off even [thinking of Raver Drew for example].
> Then there are people who are very radical but burn out - Dexter Deadwood springs to mind.


A lot have been priced out/evicted/forced out and there does seem to have been something of a general shift to the right with some posters whose primarily interest here seems to be talking about spending money in expensive restaurants and cocktail bars and trying to ridicule anyone who can't afford/doesn't want to join in with the affluent nu-Nu-Brixton scene.

The lack of support/apathy displayed for important community campaigns like the Brixton Arches and Cressingham here can be quite depressing, tbh.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2016)

han said:


> Come to Pride next weekend. Great opportunity to heckle them at the top of the stairs by the ICA.


I think I'm doing a Pride after party in The Hope in Peckham if anyone fancies coming along.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 19, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> You imagined it.
> 
> You are not sure if it was a U75 poster . Or quote the post.
> 
> Evidence please.


It wasn't imagined.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Then there are people who are very radical but burn out - Dexter Deadwood springs to mind.



Dexter's still alive and running around the park; he took to twitter instead.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2016)

I've just witnessed a beautiful exchange in Windrush Square which ended up with the homophobic Tribes Of Israel fuckers being torn apart by a quick witter heckler before they were told to fuck off by the cops.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Jun 19, 2016)

editor said:


> I've just witnessed a beautiful exchange in Windrush Square which ended up with the homophobic Tribes Of Israel fuckers being torn apart by a quick witter heckler before they were told to fuck off by the cops.


Better than me walking past the Brexit stall by the tube. All I could say was "It's all bollox."

I then remembered that apparently Lambeth is the No.1 remain part of the UK so their stall was not going to change much.

Wore my 'IN' sticker today


----------



## Pop Tart (Jun 19, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> You imagined it.
> 
> You are not sure if it was a U75 poster . Or quote the post.
> 
> Evidence please.


I don’t know why exactly i actually feel the need to waste my time to respond to your post which is unnecessarily aggressive.

Anyway I managed to found the comment again on the brixton reclaim Brixton facebook page. It says “What's even sadder is now the urban75 Brixton forums are under siege by rich, landlord-class posters who try and close down any debate - please feel free to join in and redress the balance.http://www.urban75.net/.../brixton-features-in-4.../page-5”

The posters name is Mike Urban and there posting about urban 75 so I think it is reasonable to guess that there from urban 75 but you are right I don’t know for sure. Maybe you know. Maybe you are him.  Anyway it does not really matter because it the post which made me come and look.

not sure why you were so confident to not believe me. Are you happy now?


----------



## CH1 (Jun 19, 2016)

cuppa tee said:


> lol, in fact you are on the right track, the image is a still from a film ( possibly made by Ickes crew) that chronicled his last appearance in Brixton, it was part of an attempt to portray him as a down to earth man of the people following criticism among his followers of an ayahuasca fuelled jaunt around Peru and controversy about his wealth and financial affairs. strangely the first place I saw an Icke book on sale was in the People's Weatherman Shop


I used to do the Green Party Brixton market stall outside Marks in 1987/8 and David Icke's book was their best seller (although Icke had left the Green Party by then).

That and incense etc required for New Agey type activites.


----------



## SpamMisery (Jun 19, 2016)

Awkward


----------



## CH1 (Jun 19, 2016)

editor said:


> I think I'm doing a Pride after party in The Hope in Peckham if anyone fancies coming along.


There is a three day Gay Pride event in The Ivy - community pub in Nunhead. Maybe post details later if I can get a good scan. 

It's a pity that having a pub which is an Asset of Community Value is tantalisingly out of reach in Brixton. First Brady's/The Railway dfalls apart and gets sold out to Globerate (and is now Wahaca + private flats). Then the battle to prevent Tescos turning George IV into a Tesco Express fails, then the Canterbury Arms get demolished and carved up. 

How come Southwark are so much better than Lambeth at this sort of thing? (Although though I accept regrettably they also seem to be more efficient at wholesale mass regeneration).


----------



## CH1 (Jun 19, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> Anyway I managed to found the comment again on the brixton reclaim Brixton facebook page. It says “What's even sadder is now the urban75 Brixton forums are under siege by rich, landlord-class posters who try and close down any debate - please feel free to join in and redress the balance.http://www.urban75.net/.../brixton-features-in-4.../page-5”


That link folds back to a thread here about Qantas In-flight magazine.

Are you inviting people to discuss here, where your Facebook page redirects? Brixton features in 4 page feature in Qantas flight magazine

Is this a game?


----------



## CH1 (Jun 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> There is a three day Gay Pride event in The Ivy - community pub in Nunhead. Maybe post details later if I can get a good scan.
> 
> It's a pity that having a pub which is an Asset of Community Value is tantalisingly out of reach in Brixton. First Brady's/The Railway dfalls apart and gets sold out to Globerate (and is now Wahaca + private flats). Then the battle to prevent Tescos turning George IV into a Tesco Express fails, then the Canterbury Arms get demolished and carved up.
> 
> How come Southwark are so much better than Lambeth at this sort of thing? (Although though I accept regrettably they also seem to be more efficient at wholesale mass regeneration).


Something for all the family?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2016)

CH1 said:


> There is a three day Gay Pride event in The Ivy - community pub in Nunhead. Maybe post details later if I can get a good scan.
> 
> It's a pity that having a pub which is an Asset of Community Value is tantalisingly out of reach in Brixton. First Brady's/The Railway dfalls apart and gets sold out to Globerate (and is now Wahaca + private flats). Then the battle to prevent Tescos turning George IV into a Tesco Express fails, then the Canterbury Arms get demolished and carved up.
> 
> How come Southwark are so much better than Lambeth at this sort of thing? (Although though I accept regrettably they also seem to be more efficient at wholesale mass regeneration).



I don't think Southwark council deserve any credit for the Ivy being bought out by the community. There are literally thousands of assets of community value registered across the country and something like a dozen successful buyouts. It was a huge effort by the organisers, not the council.

Brixton would be even harder though as you still have to pay market rate for it.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 20, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> I don’t know why exactly i actually feel the need to waste my time to respond to your post which is unnecessarily aggressive.
> 
> Anyway I managed to found the comment again on the brixton reclaim Brixton facebook page. It says “What's even sadder is now the urban75 Brixton forums are under siege by rich, landlord-class posters who try and close down any debate - please feel free to join in and redress the balance.http://www.urban75.net/.../brixton-features-in-4.../page-5”
> 
> ...


There is a poster on urban75 who several of us have been banned from debating with. We are not even allowed to quote or refer to that poster. I can not reveal whether this poster is mentioned in what you wrote above, because of this rule. Anyway, the point is that urban75 is somewhere where people are free  to post up and discuss their opinions freely. Sorry if this seems confusing. Another interesting thing is that the rules of urban75 say that we should not direct people to or from arguments taking place on other forums. Not only is "cross thread beef" bad form but so is "cross forum beef".


----------



## teuchter (Jun 20, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I don't think Southwark council deserve any credit for the Ivy being bought out by the community. There are literally thousands of assets of community value registered across the country and something like a dozen successful buyouts. It was a huge effort by the organisers, not the council.
> 
> Brixton would be even harder though as you still have to pay market rate for it.


Went to the ivy for the first time a few weeks back and was very impressed with what they have managed to do there.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Went to the ivy for the first time a few weeks back and was very impressed with what they have managed to do there.



Yes it's a great pub. It's a shame it's not happening more but the obstacles are pretty massive. Even for there they had to raise £800k+ if I remember rightly (not all from the community though - once they had a certain amount they were able to take out bank loans for the rest). For somewhere in central Brixton I dread to think what you'd be looking at these days.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

This was a pleasure to watch (and play a small part in):






Brixton 1  – Twelve Tribes of Israel 0. Homophobic street preachers forced out of Windrush Square


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

This hoarding on Brixton Road sure looks better without the big advert in the middle of it


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yes it's a great pub. It's a shame it's not happening more but the obstacles are pretty massive. Even for there they had to raise £800k+ if I remember rightly (not all from the community though - once they had a certain amount they were able to take out bank loans for the rest). For somewhere in central Brixton I dread to think what you'd be looking at these days.


Almost impossible to raise the cash unless you could find a rich benefactor or sponsor. Most pub sized plots of land could accommodate a shedload of 'luxury lifestyle apartments close to the vibrant Brixton Village' so it's unlikely a humble pub could home to raise that amount of dosh.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

I keep hearing rumours that some of the traders are soon to be hoiked out of the Brixton Food Court as the landlord is seeking to cash in and raise the rents. Anyone heard anything?


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 20, 2016)

That picture of The Real Image of Jesus Christ is amazing - like something out of He Man. 

Scripture is pretty vague on it all - man, with white hair and beard like wool, has long garment & girdled in gold. Nothing about a cracking pair of dad sandals.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> That picture of The Real Image of Jesus Christ is amazing - like something out of He Man.
> 
> Scripture is pretty vague on it all - man, with white hair and beard like wool, has long garment & girdled in gold. Nothing about a cracking pair of dad sandals.


He looks like a character out of an action game with that big fuck off sword. These guys were so full of hate it was quite depressing.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2016)

editor said:


> Almost impossible to raise the cash unless you could find a rich benefactor or sponsor. Most pub sized plots of land could accommodate a shedload of 'luxury lifestyle apartments close to the vibrant Brixton Village' so it's unlikely a humble pub could home to raise that amount of dosh.



Yes exactly. Apart from the Ivy the other successful one that's been discussed on here was a pub in Bath that apparently a lot of old rock bands had played at. They got a contribution from Jimmy Page. Which is great for them but members of massive rock bands with cash to spare are thin on the ground aren't they.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yes exactly. Apart from the Ivy the other successful one that's been discussed on here was a pub in Bath that apparently a lot of old rock bands had played at. They got a contribution from Jimmy Page. Which is great for them but members of massive rock bands with cash to spare are thin on the ground aren't they.


It's such a shame that Lambeth screwed over the Brady's campaigners. They had a real chance of giving something similar to Brixton.


----------



## Pop Tart (Jun 20, 2016)

CH1 said:


> That link folds back to a thread here about Qantas In-flight magazine.
> 
> Are you inviting people to discuss here, where your Facebook page redirects? Brixton features in 4 page feature in Qantas flight magazine
> 
> Is this a game?


Sorry if it is not clear. That is not my link. I was quoting Mike Urbans post on the facebook Reclaim page asking people to come to urban75 and redress the balance. that link was in the post which i quoted. it is not my link. it is the one that I clicked on and bought me here. sorry if that was not clear.


----------



## Pop Tart (Jun 20, 2016)

teuchter said:


> There is a poster on urban75 who several of us have been banned from debating with. We are not even allowed to quote or refer to that poster. I can not reveal whether this poster is mentioned in what you wrote above, because of this rule. Anyway, the point is that urban75 is somewhere where people are free  to post up and discuss their opinions freely. Sorry if this seems confusing. Another interesting thing is that the rules of urban75 say that we should not direct people to or from arguments taking place on other forums. Not only is "cross thread beef" bad form but so is "cross forum beef".


actually i dont understand a word of this, sorry

this place is quite weird.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 20, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> actually i dont understand a word of this, sorry
> 
> this place is quite weird.


True.


----------



## han (Jun 20, 2016)

CH1 said:


> Something for all the family?



That looks great. I love the Ivy House. I wish we had something like it in Brixton. Run for and by the community.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 20, 2016)

Now that virtually every pub in brixton has gone can someone suggest a decent venue to watch the footy tonight?


----------



## SpamMisery (Jun 20, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Now that virtually every pub in brixton has gone can someone suggest a decent venue to watch the footy tonight?



Pop Fields (if its not raining)


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 20, 2016)

yccch


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 20, 2016)

The Effra (Hall) if you get there early enough?


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Now that virtually every pub in brixton has gone can someone suggest a decent venue to watch the footy tonight?


Albert, Dogstar, Efrra Hall Tavern
More here Where to watch the Euros 2016 – the pick of Brixton’s pubs and places with big screens


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Jun 20, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> Pop Fields (if its not raining)


The Whirled Cinema are showing some but if interested please do check in advance.


----------



## T & P (Jun 20, 2016)

I've always loved the Duke of Edinburgh's garden for major football tournaments... though given the ultra fucking shit weather we're having at the moment, I wonder if there is any guarantee of watching 90 minutes of football without getting drenched


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 20, 2016)

Cheers all. Didn't know about whirled cinema but it looks pretty sweet.. around the corner from me too.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 20, 2016)

Hmmm.. Access Denied

https://www.whirledcinema.com/civicrm/event/info?reset=1&id=1072


----------



## teuchter (Jun 20, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Hmmm.. Access Denied
> 
> https://www.whirledcinema.com/civicrm/event/info?reset=1&id=1072


Whirled Cinema


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 20, 2016)

Yeh, the problem is when you click on the register link


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 20, 2016)

editor said:


> This was a pleasure to watch (and play a small part in):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The guy on right might be in denial......


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Jun 20, 2016)

It might be worth phoning 0207 737 6153 cos it is nice in there..


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

The Art Noveau cafe in Atlantic Road has now closed down, which is a shame. Lambeth wouldn't let the space be used as a restaurant, so there went the owner's dreams, yet new restaurants seem to pop over all over Brixton now.

She did an awful lot for the community too.


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 20, 2016)

editor said:


> Albert, Dogstar, Efrra Hall Tavern
> More here Where to watch the Euros 2016 – the pick of Brixton’s pubs and places with big screens


Marquis of Lorne? Stockwell perhaps, but proudly SW9. 

Oh, and if you don't want to join the groups of annoyed and thirsty people wandering around Trinity Gardens on a sunny afternoon, it's worth noting that the Trinity is being refurbed for the second time this millennium.


----------



## han (Jun 20, 2016)

Ol Nick said:


> Marquis of Lorne? Stockwell perhaps, but proudly SW9.
> 
> Oh, and if you don't want to join the groups of annoyed and thirsty people wandering around Trinity Gardens on a sunny afternoon, it's worth noting that the Trinity is being refurbed for the second time this millennium.


Marquis of Lorne - lovely pub, terrible selection of beer and no proper cider, unfortunately. 

Yes I discovered about the Trinity Arms refurb at the weekend when a load of us walked there. What an odd time to refurbish a pub.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 20, 2016)

CH1 said:


> There is a three day Gay Pride event in The Ivy - community pub in Nunhead. Maybe post details later if I can get a good scan.
> 
> It's a pity that having a pub which is an Asset of Community Value is tantalisingly out of reach in Brixton. First Brady's/The Railway dfalls apart and gets sold out to Globerate (and is now Wahaca + private flats). Then the battle to prevent Tescos turning George IV into a Tesco Express fails, then the Canterbury Arms get demolished and carved up.
> 
> How come Southwark are so much better than Lambeth at this sort of thing? (Although though I accept regrettably they also seem to be more efficient at wholesale mass regeneration).


Will bear this in mind thanks, for the tip.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 20, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> actually i dont understand a word of this, sorry
> 
> this place is quite weird.


  It's a bit like walking into a loud bad tempered private argument in a public house, best just to pull up a chair, and listen in or if that's too dull - try and change the subject.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 20, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> The guy on right might be in denial......


 I think the guy on the right might be in Earth Wind and Fire...


----------



## han (Jun 20, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> I think the guy on the right might be in Earth Wind and Fire...


----------



## MissL (Jun 20, 2016)

editor said:


> The Art Noveau cafe in Atlantic Road has now closed down, which is a shame. Lambeth wouldn't let the space be used as a restaurant, so there went the owner's dreams, yet new restaurants seem to pop over all over Brixton now.
> 
> She did an awful lot for the community too.



That is a shame. Why would they make that decision I wonder?


----------



## Greebo (Jun 20, 2016)

MissL said:


> That is a shame. Why would they make that decision I wonder?


You've heard of "special needs"?  Well, Lambeth council uses special logic.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 20, 2016)

MissL said:


> That is a shame. Why would they make that decision I wonder?


If it's a planning decision it should be recorded.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> The guy on right might be in denial......



....or Earth, Wind & Fire.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 20, 2016)

Pop Tart said:


> I don’t know why exactly i actually feel the need to waste my time to respond to your post which is unnecessarily aggressive.



I found your post confrontational. 

#308 CH1 sums up accurately what has changed here. 

My 14 years here the demographic has changed as Brixton has. Many of the old posters have been pushed out of Brixton or felt Brixton had changed so much it wasn’t for them any more and moved (Sarf Londoner who I bumped into recently.)


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 20, 2016)

CH1 said:


> There is a three day Gay Pride event in The Ivy - community pub in Nunhead. Maybe post details later if I can get a good scan.
> 
> It's a pity that having a pub which is an Asset of Community Value is tantalisingly out of reach in Brixton. First Brady's/The Railway dfalls apart and gets sold out to Globerate (and is now Wahaca + private flats). Then the battle to prevent Tescos turning George IV into a Tesco Express fails, then the Canterbury Arms get demolished and carved up.
> 
> How come Southwark are so much better than Lambeth at this sort of thing? (Although though I accept regrettably they also seem to be more efficient at wholesale mass regeneration).



Also when I was first in Brixton the Prince of Wales was a Gay pub. If I remember correctly.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 20, 2016)

editor said:


> This was a pleasure to watch (and play a small part in):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ive seen them outside Iceland with heated conversations with other Black people. I reckon they arent liked amongst sections of the Black community. Criticising Martin Luther King probably does not help.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> Also when I was first in Brixton the Prince of Wales was a Gay pub. If I remember correctly.


Yes it was, and a popular one too. Brixton has lost a lot of its gay bars and clubs.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 20, 2016)

editor said:


> Yes it was, and a popular one too. Brixton has lost a lot of its gay bars and clubs.



Now I remember it the POW then still had the whole ground floor. What is now KFC was part of the POW.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 21, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> I found your post confrontational.


At least it didn't incorrectly question the truth of your post like you did of Pop Tarts, for which you should apologise now you have proved to have been wrong.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 21, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> Also when I was first in Brixton the Prince of Wales was a Gay pub. If I remember correctly.


Certainly was - but went the way of BHS (due to non-payment of VAT allegedly)


----------



## CH1 (Jun 21, 2016)

*What is "Super-Gentrification"?*
Winifred Robinson finds out why one Notting Hill resident has been complained at for hanging out her washing?
What is "Super-Gentrification"?, Radio 4 in Four - BBC Radio 4 4 minute audio clip

(Not Brixton - but soon will be!)


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 21, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> It's a bit like walking into a loud bad tempered private argument in a public house, best just to pull up a chair, and listen in or if that's too dull - try and change the subject.



Talking of public houses, will we be seeing you two on Thursday night?


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 21, 2016)

CH1 said:


> *What is "Super-Gentrification"?*
> Winifred Robinson finds out why one Notting Hill resident has been complained at for hanging out her washing?
> What is "Super-Gentrification"?, Radio 4 in Four - BBC Radio 4 4 minute audio clip
> 
> (Not Brixton - but soon will be!)



But isn't that the traditional artisan way to do laundry?


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 21, 2016)

Lots of AST's and leases have that in as a clause anyway don't they? 

Makes an interesting comment on conflict and juxtaposition between Super Gentrifiers in conflict "with the previous waves of gentrifiers ... from the 1970s".


----------



## T & P (Jun 21, 2016)

One could argue that most people who move into an area are gentrifiers themselvers to some degree, even if they don't see it that way and subsequently accuse later newcomers of being the gentrifiers.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

Bit of a Brexiting going on outside the station: 






Brexit campaigners try to sweet-talk Brixtonites outside the tube station


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

T & P said:


> One could argue that most people who move into an area are gentrifiers themselvers to some degree, even if they don't see it that way and subsequently accuse later newcomers of being the gentrifiers.


One could argue that but one would soon become unstuck because it's a far more nuanced argument than that. Moving to a a poor area because you're poor and it's all you can afford does not, for example, make you a gentrifier. Even less so when that area has a hair-raising reputation for crime and break ins. You're just _surviving_ and it has little to do with the comfortably-financed, lifestyle choices of the trend-excavating foodie set.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

editor said:


> One could argue that but one would soon become unstuck because it's a far more nuanced argument than that. Moving to a a poor area because you're poor and it's all you can afford does not, for example, make you a gentrifier. Even less so when that area has a hair-raising reputation for crime and break ins. You're just _surviving_ and it has little to do with the comfortably-financed, lifestyle choices of the trend-excavating foodie set.


That's not a nuanced argument though.  You've just posted two extreme stereotypes.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

discobastard said:


> That's not a nuanced argument though.  You've just posted two extreme stereotypes.


Hardly 'extreme' nor stereotypes, not was I presenting an 'argument': I was just giving examples.

The former was my personal circumstances and the latter is hardly unusual these days. After all, almost every new Brixton development and article references the foodie delights of Brixton, many of which are thoroughly affordable to many families.


----------



## SpamMisery (Jun 21, 2016)

I thought we'd all agreed that most people move here because it is relatively affordable and central, not because there are lots of pop up restaurants.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 21, 2016)

I came here for the following 3 reasons;

A) I was avoiding the police
B) I was offered a free place to sleep
C) I loved the 24 hour buzz of the place


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 21, 2016)

What's happening in Brixton is a city wide problem - London prices are too high and there are not enough affordable places for people to live, for people who are not super rich millionaires that is.	We all have our reasons for moving to Brixton and I can't blame onyone for wanting to live here. It may have changed, and not always for the better, but Brixton is still great. The diversity, creativity and tolerance are still here - under threat maybe, but still alive and well.

Fighting amongst ourselves about who is poorer/richer, working class/ middle class, home owner/ renter, gentrifier or not, who was born here or has lived here longest or who frequents this bar or that restraunt, is just useless bickering.  

All the while the councillors, the global mega companies, the govt and the truly wealthy elite are fucking  getting away with selling / regenerating / destroying our fantastic city.


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Jun 21, 2016)

discobastard said:


> That's not a nuanced argument though.  You've just posted two extreme stereotypes.


That's what happened to me and I'm not a stereotype (I think).  Herne Hill was the only place that I could afford to buy 20 years ago and let's just say that there was nowhere to get a Latte then.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2016)

T & P said:


> One could argue that most people who move into an area are gentrifiers themselvers to some degree, even if they don't see it that way and subsequently accuse later newcomers of being the gentrifiers.



You could only reasonably argue that if each such successive wave of new arrivals came from "higher" class strata than the previous waves. Gentrification implies a particular type of social "improvement".

That did not really become a sustainable argument in most quarters until the late 1990s/early 2000s.


----------



## Angellic (Jun 21, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Where does that refer to? Vauxhall?
> 
> Most of the new flats aren't sold that way - they go through different brokers, not Foxtons. Can't say I agree with their last line!



This was the reply, fairly broad area. 
_I was referring to areas in the Kennington, Oval, Vauxhall, Stockwell & Brixton areas of Lambeth._


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> That's what happened to me and I'm not a stereotype (I think).  Herne Hill was the only place that I could afford to buy 20 years ago and let's just say that there was nowhere to get a Latte then.


Same thing with me in Tulse Hill nearly 10 years ago. 

But the quote in question refers to two extremes. And there are *lots* of people in the middle and across the full spectrum just trying to do the best they can with what they have. But the extremes are the only things that ever get brought up here, which makes for a very un-nuanced conversation, and one which in that respect, is pretty unproductive. IMO.

People who are private buyers/renters go where they can afford and will choose how to spend the limited or unlimited disposable income they have. It's not their 'fault' what is happening in Brixton, there are bigger, darker forces at work. 

But I also understand that attacking the 'cocktail swilling' bearded types is probably (unless somebody wants to put me straight) just a rhetorical device.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> What's happening in Brixton is a city wide problem - London prices are too high and there are not enough affordable places for people to live, for people who are not super rich millionaires that is.	We all have our reasons for moving to Brixton and I can't blame onyone for wanting to live here. It may have changed, and not always for the better, but Brixton is still great. The diversity, creativity and tolerance are still here - under threat maybe, but still alive and well.
> 
> Fighting amongst ourselves about who is poorer/richer, working class/ middle class, home owner/ renter, gentrifier or not, who was born here or has lived here longest or who frequents this bar or that restraunt, is just useless bickering.
> 
> All the while the councillors, the global mega companies, the govt and the truly wealthy elite are fucking  getting away with selling / regenerating / destroying our fantastic city.


Great post friendofdorothy [emoji1360]


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

editor said:


> Hardly 'extreme' nor stereotypes, not was I presenting an 'argument': I was just giving examples.
> 
> The former was my personal circumstances and the latter is hardly unusual these days. After all, almost every new Brixton development and article references the foodie delights of Brixton, many of which are thoroughly affordable to many families.


You'll forgive me surely given you said it's a more nuanced argument which was then followed by something which didn't offer any nuance at all. 

It wasn't clear you were offering two examples that didn't take account of the nuance you mentioned.

I apologise unreservedly for misinterpreting your post.


----------



## Harbourite (Jun 21, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> The guy on right might be in denial......


It's a very fetching camo-apron he's got on - perhaps he just came off a shift at a local trendy burger joint?


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

discobastard said:


> You'll forgive me surely given you said it's a more nuanced argument which was then followed by something which didn't offer any nuance at all.
> 
> It wasn't clear you were offering two examples that didn't take account of the nuance you mentioned.
> 
> I apologise unreservedly for misinterpreting your post.


T&P suggested that "most people who move into an area are gentrifiers themselves to some degree," and I gave an example that disproved that theory, whilst also providing an example of the kind of person who _is_ a gentrifier. I think it's all pretty straightforward, so I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding the point being made.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> What's happening in Brixton is a city wide problem - London prices are too high and there are not enough affordable places for people to live, for people who are not super rich millionaires that is.	We all have our reasons for moving to Brixton and I can't blame onyone for wanting to live here. It may have changed, and not always for the better, but Brixton is still great. The diversity, creativity and tolerance are still here - under threat maybe, but still alive and well.


What is depressing is that so few people seem interested in fighting to preserve the 'diversity, creativity and tolerance ' that you talk about.

There's people who really need help - like the long term residents of Cressingham - yet I think I've reached the point where I know just about every person who shows up at their protests, because there's so few of them. Same applies to the demos to support Rachel Heywood, most of the library campaigns, the Guinness campaign, and before that, the co-op evictions.

At times it really feels like the activist community is dying on its arse, but thankfully there's still some people prepared to get off their arses (yourself included).


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 21, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Same thing with me in Tulse Hill nearly 10 years ago.
> 
> But the quote in question refers to two extremes. And there are *lots* of people in the middle and across the full spectrum just trying to do the best they can with what they have. But the extremes are the only things that ever get brought up here, which makes for a very un-nuanced conversation, and one which in that respect, is pretty unproductive. IMO.
> 
> ...



See my post #298 for the dark forces at work rather than just having a go at "bearded types". Which got little interest. 

There are a lot of posts on threads here which are "nuanced". Its that they do not get peoples attention. 

Whole thread on social housing which does not get many hits. Its easier to have a go at posts complaining about the latest bar or Pop.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 21, 2016)

CH1 said:


> *What is "Super-Gentrification"?*
> Winifred Robinson finds out why one Notting Hill resident has been complained at for hanging out her washing?
> What is "Super-Gentrification"?, Radio 4 in Four - BBC Radio 4 4 minute audio clip
> 
> (Not Brixton - but soon will be!)



Reminds me of someone I occasionally bump into in Belgravia. She is Chinese and has some kind of job in City. She likes dogs and volunteers at Battersea Cats and Dogs home from which she got a Mastiff. Big dogs but friendly. A neighbour told her to get her "Council Estate" dog out of Knightsbridge. . She also told me she gets mistaken as one of the staff at the Waitrose in Belgravia.

Not that Belgravia/ Knightsbridge is gentrified. Its always been posh. But "standards" have to be kept up.


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 21, 2016)

Mr Retro said:


> At least it didn't incorrectly question the truth of your post like you did of Pop Tarts, for which you should apologise now you have proved to have been wrong.



I asked a perfectly reasonable question. 

Nothing to apologise for.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

editor said:


> T&P suggested that "most people who move into an area are gentrifiers themselves to some degree," and I gave an example that disproved that theory, whilst also providing an example of the kind of person who _is_ a gentrifier. I think it's all pretty straightforward, so I'm sorry if you're having trouble understanding the point being made.


No need to apologise.

I really don't think its that straightforward at all.  Lots of private renters/buyers moving into areas in London are part of gentrification to a degree as people generally move to where they can afford and in many cases those areas are being regenerated, and businesses begin to serve the changing demographic.  In some cases this happens in extremis such as Brixton, and it becomes a caricature, as has happened in parts of the East End.

And, there are also plenty who move there who are neither poor nor the 'trend-excavating foodie set' (I do like the 'trend-excavating' turn of phrase though).  And just because they do not actively support the Cressingham or Library issue does not mean they don't care, it may be just that they don't know about it or have other things on their plate which may be equally important to them.

Just because somebody isn't 'with you' doesn't mean they're agin you and wilfully destroying the very fabric of the veteran Brixton community.  We are all a product of our ennvironment and circumstance and (in many cases) just trying to do the best with what we've got.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

discobastard said:


> And, there are also plenty who move there who are neither poor nor the 'trend-excavating foodie set' - if that is meant to mean  (I do like the 'trend-excavating' turn of phrase though).


I was rather chuffed with that too 

And I agree: the bigger argument is not straightforward, and that's why I took exception to T&P's simplistic comment.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

Gramsci said:


> See my post #298 for the dark forces at work rather than just having a go at "bearded types". Which got little interest.
> 
> There are a lot of posts on threads here which are "nuanced". Its that they do not get peoples attention.
> 
> Whole thread on social housing which does not get many hits. Its easier to have a go at posts complaining about the latest bar or Pop.


I am not so well versed in political theory, though I do however respect your knowledge in this area.  I've read your post #298 and the quotes within and its very poignant - at the same time it is quite a dense idea to get a grip on and is clearly the outcome of a system embedded over many years.  No doubt if 'use value' wasn't allowed with housing we might have either a) a very favourable situation for all or b) a completely different set of problems and/or issues.  Who knows?

It shouldn't be a surprise that the majority of people are not able to stand back and look at things theoretically like this.  We are all (largely) in the system as it is currently and like I say, trying to do the best we can with what we've got.  So I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm saying  that I'm not sure what we do with all that.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

On a personal note - and I'm sure there's several posters here will have no understanding of why I found this sight so depressing - it was horrible seeing a slick-suited bloke standing outside one of the flats on my floor with a gang of well-heeled twenty somethings all queuing for their chance to buy a former council flat.

I found it sad on multiple levels: the people desperate for housing, the swivel-action estate agent raking it in from the terrible housing situation, the sight of another council flat disappearing for good and - to be honest - a bit of an internal rage about the inequality of a society where people who grew up on the estate get barged aside for affluent young newcomers.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

editor said:


> On a personal note - and I'm sure there's several posters here will have no understanding of why I found this sight so depressing


I'm not sure there's quite as many people as you think who don't understand that, even those that you might regularly disagree with.  With the greatest of respect (I'm really not having a go here), I think you do yourself a disservice by adding that to your post.  

Your point stands yet probably garners more respect without such a dig.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2016)

discobastard said:


> I'm not sure there's quite as many people as you think who don't understand that, even those that you might regularly disagree with.  With the greatest of respect (I'm really not having a go here), I think you do yourself a disservice by adding that to your post.


I said 'several' posters and I absolutely believe that to be true, based on my experiences here.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 21, 2016)

editor said:


> I said 'several' posters and I absolutely believe that to be true, based on my experiences here.


I know you said several.  I said 'not as many as you think', which is relative to several.  I also respect your right to believe it, but I'd be disappointed if you included me in that group.  There's a lot of people who get grief for holding a different POV, but watching discussions over the past couple of years, I can't remember anybody who thinks this kind of scenario is a 'good thing'.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 22, 2016)

"Several people"
"Certain posters"
"Some of those here"

Never named, to make sure the accusations can't ever be specifically disputed.

The idea that there is in any way a significant number of regular posters on here who aren't aware of the negative effects of gentrification, or who have no sympathy for those hit hardest by those effects - it's complete rubbish.


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> On a personal note - and I'm sure there's several posters here will have no understanding of why I found this sight so depressing - it was horrible seeing a slick-suited bloke standing outside one of the flats on my floor with a gang of well-heeled twenty somethings all queuing for their chance to buy a former council flat.



Yes and the blame lies with the system of right to buy which took that flat out of social housing in the first place. I'm not blaming the person who took advantage of it, I mean, it would take a certain sort to look that gift horse in the mouth. 
With no new social housing building programmes, the scarcity of homes available to those who need them and the right to buy system, the whole thing is fucked up. 
I don't know the answer, other than to build more council homes and stop right to buy. The extension into housing associations is crazy


----------



## editor (Jun 22, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> Yes and the blame lies with the system of right to buy which took that flat out of social housing in the first place. I'm not blaming the person who took advantage of it, I mean, it would take a certain sort to look that gift horse in the mouth.
> With no new social housing building programmes, the scarcity of homes available to those who need them and the right to buy system, the whole thing is fucked up.
> I don't know the answer, other than to build more council homes and stop right to buy. The extension into housing associations is crazy


Oh, I'm definitely not blaming the people buying the flat, but what I saw just drove home the growing inequality in the area. 

And on the topic of tolerance, I'm always friendly to the people who have bought flats in my block, but it is depressing the amount of times they almost immediately bring up complaints about the 'noise from the estate' (i.e. the very occasional parties, most of which stop around midnight-2am, or just the daytime noise of kids playing songs or practicing. It's not that loud, ffs).


----------



## editor (Jun 22, 2016)

This was, err, interesting: 












Buskers of Brixton: Annabella’s Cabaret confounds and amuses onlookers in Windrush Square


----------



## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> Another ugly gated development, just like Brixton Square.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> What is depressing is that so few people seem interested in fighting to preserve the 'diversity, creativity and tolerance ' that you talk about.
> 
> There's people who really need help - like the long term residents of Cressingham - yet I think I've reached the point where I know just about every person who shows up at their protests, because there's so few of them. Same applies to the demos to support Rachel Heywood, most of the library campaigns, the Guinness campaign, and before that, the co-op evictions.


Local campaigns are needed - but there are lots of reasons why not everyone can actively support them -it would be exhausting to physically support them all. I think it needs a national response too. We need govt and council policies to change.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> On a personal note - and I'm sure there's several posters here will have no understanding of why I found this sight so depressing - it was horrible seeing a slick-suited bloke standing outside one of the flats on my floor with a gang of well-heeled twenty somethings all queuing for their chance to buy a former council flat.
> 
> I found it sad on multiple levels: the people desperate for housing, the swivel-action estate agent raking it in from the terrible housing situation, the sight of another council flat disappearing for good and - to be honest - a bit of an internal rage about the inequality of a society where people who grew up on the estate get barged aside for affluent young newcomers.


btw. I bought an ex-council flat - so shoot me.


----------



## editor (Jun 22, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> Local campaigns are needed - but there are lots of reasons why not everyone can actively support them -it would be exhausting to physically support them all. I think it needs a national response too. We need govt and council policies to change.


Surely making sure your voice is heard and being active in local campaigns_ is_ the way to govt and local policies to change? I don't expect people to be coming out for every protest, but the overall lack of interest is pretty depressing.


friendofdorothy said:


> btw. I bought an ex-council flat - so shoot me.


I've no idea why you're saying that seeing as I've already said that, "I'm definitely not blaming the people buying the flat."


----------



## uk benzo (Jun 22, 2016)

On another note, the spunk trees have blossomed.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 22, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> btw. I bought an ex-council flat - so shoot me.


I imagine you bought it to live in.

What I find disheartening is when you get ex-local authority flats becoming "investments" - i.e. being rented out at market rates.

I suppose right to buy could have been structured such that subletting was not allowed - just as it is not allowed if you are a tenant.

But nobody thought of that.


----------



## Manter (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> What is depressing is that so few people seem interested in fighting to preserve the 'diversity, creativity and tolerance ' that you talk about.
> 
> There's people who really need help - like the long term residents of Cressingham - yet I think I've reached the point where I know just about every person who shows up at their protests, because there's so few of them. Same applies to the demos to support Rachel Heywood, most of the library campaigns, the Guinness campaign, and before that, the co-op evictions.
> 
> At times it really feels like the activist community is dying on its arse, but thankfully there's still some people prepared to get off their arses (yourself included).


I am an (accidental) activist for refugees. There are a big group of us in Brixton- it's one of the largest activist communities in the UK. It doesn't happen to be activism you are involved in or have any visibility of, but it is big and growing and vibrant and determined and going nowhere. Some of us look like hippies and some of us look like dull grey suits: some of us live in squats and some of us have mortgages, and anything in between. We're activists in the true sense of the word, campaigning and acting for social change- all around refugees. Brixton is absolutely central to it- from the wide range of generous, welcoming people; access to services for people dealing with the physical and mental aftermath of trauma and torture, venues from Pop to the dogstar who have offered collection sites, fundraising venues, publicity, donated food (including the lovely Nour). Brixton activism is definitely not dead.


----------



## editor (Jun 22, 2016)

Manter said:


> I am an (accidental) activist for refugees. There are a big group of us in Brixton- it's one of the largest activist communities in the UK. It doesn't happen to be activism you are involved in or have any visibility of, but it is big and growing and vibrant and determined and going nowhere. Some of us look like hippies and some of us look like dull grey suits: some of us live in squats and some of us have mortgages, and anything in between. We're activists in the true sense of the word, campaigning and acting for social change- all around refugees. Brixton is absolutely central to it- from the wide range of generous, welcoming people; access to services for people dealing with the physical and mental aftermath of trauma and torture, venues from Pop to the dogstar who have offered collection sites, fundraising venues, publicity, donated food (including the lovely Nour). Brixton activism is definitely not dead.


Oh, I know there's still plenty of it about and it's brilliant that people are doing so much - Brixton still is a very special place indeed - but from talking to a lot of different groups, I can't shake off the feeling that it's increasingly becoming more of an uphill struggle and tat the community is far more fractured.


----------



## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 22, 2016)

Gardens in Brixton are coming along nicely and look how clean the place is


editor said:


> Another ugly gated development, just like Brixton Square.





editor said:


> Another ugly gated development, just like Brixton Square.


----------



## editor (Jun 22, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> Gardens in Brixton are coming along nicely and look how clean the place is


I'm sure your private gardens are absolutely delightful. It's just a shame that they're barricaded off from the rest of Brixton!


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Jun 22, 2016)

uk benzo said:


> On another note, the spunk trees have blossomed.


What?  Please.


----------



## T & P (Jun 22, 2016)

uk benzo said:


> On another note, the spunk trees have blossomed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> What?  Please.



I think he's talking about Rowans.


----------



## Harbourite (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> Oh, I know there's still plenty of it about and it's brilliant that people are doing so much - Brixton still is a very special place indeed - but from talking to a lot of different groups, I can't shake off the feeling that it's increasingly becoming more of an uphill struggle and tat the community is far more fractured.


Agreed. "Social media" is brilliant at almost real time awareness of stuff that's happening - but it's also everywhere (too many causes, too little time, cause fatigue etc.), pretty divisive (because you can't tell whether someone is just kidding or not and a badly worded tweet or similar can start a war) and is an easy way to feel involved without actively doing anything. I'm not an activist but I am more actively involved in what's going on within 10-15 mins walk of where I live than I ever have been before. Brixton does that to people and I love it.

Mind you, with the government (local and national), the goalposts have been removed completely along with the ball - so unsurprising that people lose the enthusiasm and apathy can take over. But you just need a couple of jumpers and a rolled up newspaper wrapped in sellotape! Enough football analogies, at the end of the day etc.


----------



## Mr Bim of Bar (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm sure your private gardens are absolutely delightful. It's just a shame that they're barricaded off from the rest of Brixton!


----------



## T & P (Jun 22, 2016)

A bit of a thunder and lighting show right now


----------



## agricola (Jun 23, 2016)

T & P said:


> A bit of a thunder and lighting show right now



One of the best storms in ages this, its still going on.


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 23, 2016)

Is it ever going to stop?


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 23, 2016)

Velux windows + heavy rain= no sleep
Still I'm making excellent progress on my new book
Shame I've got to get up in 3 1/2 hours!!


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 23, 2016)

Tenor Fly has died

British MC Tenor Fly has passed away


----------



## leanderman (Jun 23, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> Velux windows + heavy rain= no sleep



Likewise. Heaviest rain I can recall.


----------



## LadyV (Jun 23, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> Velux windows + heavy rain= no sleep
> Still I'm making excellent progress on my new book
> Shame I've got to get up in 3 1/2 hours!!



Ditto metal roof and top floor flat, it was like Animal from the Muppets was up there playing the drums!


----------



## agricola (Jun 23, 2016)

It flooded part of Tory Central Office, apparently.


----------



## se5 (Jun 23, 2016)

This might be interesting for longer term residents of Vassall ward: Minet Library Saturday


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2016)

Mr Bim of Bar said:


> <nothing>


The idea is that you're supposed to post something up, not just quote my words


----------



## Gramsci (Jun 23, 2016)

se5 said:


> This might be interesting for longer term residents of Vassall ward: Minet Library Saturday



Good that Archives are doing this. Oral history is important as it provides another source apart from official docs and newspapers.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jun 23, 2016)

Big nasty looking accident on acre lane outside McDonalds. Looks like buses were involved. Acre lane is closed and traffic backed up all the way up Brixton hill


----------



## madolesance (Jun 23, 2016)

shakespearegirl said:


> Big nasty looking accident on acre lane outside McDonalds. Looks like buses were involved. Acre lane is closed and traffic backed up all the way up Brixton hill



A fire engine and a 35 bus. Thankfully no serious injuries.


----------



## jakejb79 (Jun 23, 2016)

madolesance said:


> A fire engine and a 35 bus. Thankfully no serious injuries.



Passed this on a bus going southbound, lots of people standing around and about 4 Ambulances and 5 Fire Engines going up Brixton Hill.


----------



## leanderman (Jun 23, 2016)




----------



## T & P (Jun 23, 2016)

Fuck! I hope nobody was standing by the front door. Normally not allowed to anyway.


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2016)

Bloody hell that crash looks nasty. 

In other news:







In photos: a rainswept Referendum Day in Brixton


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 23, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> Coldharbour Lane this June. Fact



ftfy


----------



## T & P (Jun 23, 2016)

editor said:


> Bloody hell that crash looks nasty.
> 
> In other news:
> 
> ...


I've just had someone from the Remain camp knock on our door to ask if we'd voted, and how. 

Annoyingly there will be no exit polls in this Referendum, so I guess it was for their own consumption only. I asked her if she knew why there would be no exit polls and she said probably lack of funding, but that sounds unlikely to me... Does anyone know the reason?


----------



## colacubes (Jun 23, 2016)

T & P said:


> I've just had someone from the Remain camp knock on our door to ask if we'd voted, and how.
> 
> Annoyingly there will be no exit polls in this Referendum, so I guess it was for their own consumption only. I asked her if she knew why there would be no exit polls and she said probably lack of funding, but that sounds unlikely to me... Does anyone know the reason?



As I understand it exit polls are based on historical voting data as well as polling on people's current voting intentions.  As there is no historical data in this case, it's basically impossible to do a proper exit poll.  The pollsters can have a good guess but no one really knows and we won't get a OMFG the Tories have won the General Election exit poll which proves to be entirely accurate against all the polling has suggested.  Check the odds in the bookies is probably the best predictor come 10pm!


----------



## T & P (Jun 23, 2016)

Interesting, though it doesn't make sense to me. If you're simply asking people exiting a polling station how they voted, surely historical results don't come into it at all?


----------



## colacubes (Jun 23, 2016)

T & P said:


> Interesting, though it doesn't make sense to me. If you're simply asking people exiting a polling station how they voted, surely historical results don't come into it at all?



Well that was what I thought it meant as well, but apparently this is not the case. This is a summing up of what I heard on I think Radio 4 the other day (John Curtice is the prof who does all the exit polls for the BBC and called the General Election right).

Why there's no EU referendum exit poll


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2016)

Great to see that this pondlife scumbag is off the streets for a very long time 
Man jailed over sexual attacks in south London


----------



## CH1 (Jun 23, 2016)

T & P said:


> I've just had someone from the Remain camp knock on our door to ask if we'd voted, and how.


I had that (except he didn't ask how I voted) about 8 pm. He said "Hi, I'm from the Remain team" and I didn't throw him down the steps so maybe he drew his own conclusions.

BTW this is the first time in 30 years of living here that I can recall being "knocked up".


----------



## T & P (Jun 23, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I had that (except he didn't ask how I voted) about 8 pm. He said "Hi, I'm from the Remain team" and I didn't throw him down the steps so maybe he drew his own conclusions.
> 
> BTW this is the first time in 30 years of living here that I can recall being "knocked up".


Same, I've never had any politician canvassing during any election. Maybe just luck. Plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses though.


----------



## EastEnder (Jun 23, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I had that (except he didn't ask how I voted) about 8 pm. He said "Hi, I'm from the Remain team" and I didn't throw him down the steps so maybe he drew his own conclusions.
> 
> BTW this is the first time in 30 years of living here that I can recall being "knocked up".


A chap from "Remain" rang my buzzer at about 10am to check if I'd voted yet - I had, so don't know if I'd have got the hard sell if I hadn't.

Funnily enough, no contact from Leave whatsoever...


----------



## Winot (Jun 23, 2016)

Timed my vote perfectly - en route home in middle of torrential rain. No queue at all. Only hope the rain hasn't put too many Remainians off.


----------



## EastEnder (Jun 23, 2016)

Just had a chap from Labour buzz the door & ask me if I'd voted, with only 24 mins left! Can't fault their commitment.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 23, 2016)

Winot said:


> Timed my vote perfectly - en route home in middle of torrential rain. No queue at all. Only hope the rain hasn't put too many Remainians off.


Funnily enough on the way home from the polling station I bumped into the proprietor of the former Medussa Nightclub who vehemently insisted people would be idiots to vote remain.
He is Biafran, but I had a similar conversation with a guy from Grenada a few weeks ago in the Beehive, again outraged that despite Grenada only being "independent" since 1975 they are treated as a foreign country compared to European citizens.

There is a leave constituency amongst people who feel commonwealth citizens are unfairly disadvantaged by EU immigration rules.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 23, 2016)

CH1 said:


> There is a leave constituency amongst people who feel commonwealth citizens are unfairly disadvantaged by EU immigration rules.



a sentiment echoed by Kate Hoey in her " why I am voting Leave" letter that was delivered yesterday.....


----------



## Winot (Jun 23, 2016)

They do at least get a vote in the referendum - unlike EU citizens who don't.


----------



## Ms T (Jun 23, 2016)

Nice tenth birthday party tonight at The Regent.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 24, 2016)

T & P said:


> Same, I've never had any politician canvassing during any election. Maybe just luck. Plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses though.


We don't have net curtains or blinds or whatever so canvassers can see me sitting on my couch when they knock on my door. Obviously I can see them too so I pretend not to see or hear them knocking and they pretend not to see me ignoring them. It's all very English.


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2016)

Lambeth voted 78.6% Remain


----------



## CH1 (Jun 24, 2016)

editor said:


> Lambeth voted 78.6% Remain


I think we should demand a referendum on joining Scotland.


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2016)

More detail here Lambeth bucks national trend with 79% voting to remain in the European Union


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2016)

Come booze away the Brexit blues at the Market House tonight (Upstairs). Message me for free guestlist. 







Tonight! Beyoncé to Britpop – Brixton Buzz party at Brixton’s Market House – mail us for guest passes!


----------



## technical (Jun 25, 2016)

i feel a bit shocked 

Walking home about 6pm with my 7 year old daughter earlier along upper Tulse hill

A group of about 7/8 teenagers stepped out into the road in front of a moped rider and kicked him off it as he passed  - he ended up narrowly missing a post as he slid along the ground 

I shouted at them and they ran off. A bloke in his car stopped and while we were checking the moped rider was alright the one who had done most of the kicking came back to retrieve a shoe 

This then turned into a shoving and shouting match as people around got involved. Then the boy ran off again as the car man put his shoe in his car 

Teenagers and moped man didn't seem to know each other - appeared totally random. 

All quite bizarre and upsetting


----------



## discobastard (Jun 25, 2016)

technical said:


> i feel a bit shocked
> 
> Walking home about 6pm with my 7 year old daughter earlier along upper Tulse hill
> 
> ...


That sounds like a horrible thing to witness. And hope your daughter is bearing up ok after seeing that. 

Have you made a statement/given descriptions to the police?


----------



## technical (Jun 25, 2016)

Daughter was very upset but seemed OK by time she went to bed

Moped bloke was bruised bit okay but then didn't want to do anything about it. He seemed very resigned really- he was a pizza delivery man I think. 

Without him there didn't seem any point calling the police 

They really were a bunch of toerags


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2016)

technical said:


> Daughter was very upset but seemed OK by time she went to bed
> 
> Moped bloke was bruised bit okay but then didn't want to do anything about it. He seemed very resigned really- he was a pizza delivery man I think.
> 
> ...



Just out of interest - how old would you say the teenagers were?


----------



## technical (Jun 25, 2016)

I'd guess 17 or so


----------



## teuchter (Jun 25, 2016)

They could very easily kill someone, doing stuff like that. I reckon the police ought to know about it.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 25, 2016)

As it happens, half an hour ago I saw a pizza delivery moped tearing down Herne Hill Rd at way, way above the 20mph speed limit. My thought was that he could kill himself or someone else doing that. Have seen delivery drivers come off their mopeds round here several times, at junctions.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 26, 2016)

teuchter said:


> As it happens, half an hour ago I saw a pizza delivery moped tearing down Herne Hill Rd at way, way above the 20mph speed limit. My thought was that he could kill himself or someone else doing that. Have seen delivery drivers come off their mopeds round here several times, at junctions.


yeah I've seen somilar, maybe something to do with unfortunate people paid per job taking risks so yuppie dinners don't arrive cold.


----------



## technical (Jun 26, 2016)

Spoke to police this morning. Nothing likely to happen though I think


----------



## editor (Jun 26, 2016)

I'm amused by thus angry reader comment of the Brixton Blog review of Beach Boulevard which concluded, "For our money, we’d still probably rather spend an evening at Pop Brixton, but we’d also have no problem if Brixton Beach Boulevard became an annual thing."



> Shit between a shit and a shit place. Eat shitburgers you shits. There’s only one beach in Brixton, Red Stripe is £1 and you can all fuck right off.


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 26, 2016)

Don't forget that the Brixton Windmill Trades Parade and Festival is on today
1pm from Windrush Square
2-5 pm in Windmill Gardens
Welcome to Brixton Windmill - brixton windmill


----------



## editor (Jun 26, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> Don't forget that the Brixton Windmill Trades Parade and Festival is on today
> 1pm from Windrush Square
> 2-5 pm in Windmill Gardens
> Welcome to Brixton Windmill - brixton windmill


Just been up there and it's pleasantly laid back


----------



## editor (Jun 26, 2016)

Some pics from today's Windmill Parade and Festival:






























In photos: Brixton Windmill Parade and Festival 2016


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2016)

As Nanker Phelge will confirm, it can be a really tough gig, but we had a cracking night at the Market House on Friday. Fantastic crowd. 

















Friday 27th May 2016, DJ night at Offline Club, Upstairs at Market House, 443 Coldharbour Lane, Brixton, London SW9, with DJs playing ska, electro, indie, punk, rock'n'roll, big band, rockabilly and skiffle


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 27, 2016)

editor said:


> As Nanker Phelge will confirm, it can be a really tough gig, but we had a cracking night at the Market House on Friday. Fantastic crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



May ?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 27, 2016)

editor said:


> As Nanker Phelge will confirm, it can be a really tough gig, but we had a cracking night at the Market House on Friday. Fantastic crowd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed it can. I thought we were in a for a long old nightmare when we played a couple of weeks ago...it was dead, and then around 11pm it went mad and stayed busy til 3am....

....at one point people were dancing so hard the dj booth was rocking back and forth.


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Indeed it can. I thought we were in a for a long old nightmare when we played a couple of weeks ago...it was dead, and then around 11pm it went mad and stayed busy til 3am....
> 
> ....at one point people were dancing so hard the dj booth was rocking back and forth.


A few months we started with a busy crowd and thought we were in for an easy night. At midnight it was almost empty, and half an hour later it was rammed again. 

It's a tough place to play and the crowd can sometimes be uber-fickle: one wrong record and you can lose half your crowd, but then that makes the big nights all the better. It's definitely not one for thin-skinned DJs because it can be a bit soul-crushing when you see the crowd disappearing for no apparent reason!


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2016)

cuppa tee said:


> May ?


Ooops!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 27, 2016)

editor said:


> A few months we started with a busy crowd and thought we were in for an easy night. At midnight it was almost empty, and half an hour later it was rammed again.
> 
> It's a tough place to play and the crowd can sometimes be uber-fickle: one wrong record and you can lose half your crowd, but then that makes the big nights all the better. It's definitely not one for thin-skinned DJs because it can be a bit soul-crushing when you see the crowd disappearing for no apparent reason!



Ha ha....yeah, it can be a case of instant deflation if you're not careful. We've been doing it for four+ years now, and we've had some heartbreaking nights and some of my favourite nights in there. Our first few were a disaster, but I think part of that was because we went in with a fixed idea of the music we were playing, and didn't bend. Once we allowed ourselves to expand a bit it was actually more fun for us and people reacted better. It was nice to break out of our 'Time Tunnel' playlist and venture in to other genres we liked to play.

I still get asked to play loads of shite though, and I say no more there than anywhere I play.


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Ha ha....yeah, it can be a case of instant deflation if you're not careful. We've been doing it for four+ years now, and we've had some heartbreaking nights and some of my favourite nights in there. Our first few were a disaster, but I think part of that was because we went in with a fixed idea of the music we were playing, and didn't bend. Once we allowed ourselves to expand a bit it was actually more fun for us and people reacted better. It was nice to break out of our 'Time Tunnel' playlist and venture in to other genres we liked to play.
> 
> I still get asked to play loads of shite though, and I say no more there than anywhere I play.


If a song is sending people to the door, I've got no qualms about taking it straight off. And yes, with a crowd that seems to completely change every few hours, you need to have a wide range of tunes on hand. I won't play anything I don't like of course, but I'll definitely play songs there that I usually don't play elsewhere.

I do like the odd surprise that the place can throw up too: on a whim I played Song 2 by Blur and it went down an absolute storm with a really mixed crowd!

And yes. I ignore the shit requests too. Well, as kindly as I can.


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2016)

That last Italian goal went down very well with the San Marino customers!


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2016)

Why is a Chinook helicopter circling over Brixton?


----------



## Ms T (Jun 28, 2016)

John Kerry is in town?


----------



## Smick (Jun 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Why is a Chinook helicopter circling over Brixton?


I think that Chinooks are used to transport large numbers of troops or heavy equipment into places difficult to get to by land. So I'd imagine it's a training exercise. I often see them fly along the Thames and that is apparently training. I don't understand why they need to train over such a busy city.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 28, 2016)

In case anyone is interested Helen Hates - MP for East Brixton - has put out the following post-Brexit statement. Apparently she is sufficiently pro-EU to work towards a second honestly conducted referendum, but not the David Lammy nuclear solution (which I personally favour) of disregarding the Farage referendum altogether.
EU Referendum Result - My Reaction


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 28, 2016)

CH1 said:


> In case anyone is interested Helen Hates - MP for East Brixton - has put out the following post-Brexit statement. Apparently she is sufficiently pro-EU to work towards a second honestly conducted referendum, but not the David Lammy nuclear solution (which I personally favour) of disregarding the Farage referendum altogether.
> EU Referendum Result - My Reaction


Whereas as the despicable Kate Hoey published photos of herself in a boat with grinning with Nigel Farage.


----------



## technical (Jun 28, 2016)

The idea of either ignoring last Thursday or having a second referendum is ridiculous. Much as we might not like it, more people wanted out. We should be looking for ways to make things work rather than going down a road that will only divide people more.


----------



## T & P (Jun 28, 2016)

technical said:


> The idea of either ignoring last Thursday or having a second referendum is ridiculous. Much as we might not like it, more people wanted out. We should be looking for ways to make things work rather than going down a road that will only divide people more.


Considering that the the Leave camp has consistently lied through their teeth about their main pledges, and have already backtracked on all of them, the people who voted Leave were deceived and the referendum was decided under false pretenses and a package of fucking lies.

Given the potentially very grave consequences of Brexit and the importance of the matter, I'd say that ignoring the result or having a second referendum is the only course of action.


----------



## EastEnder (Jun 28, 2016)

T & P said:


> Considering that the the Leave camp has consistently lied through their teeth about their main pledges, and have already backtracked on all of them, the people who voted Leave were deceived and the referendum was decided under false pretenses and a package of fucking lies.


The referendum was on a very simple question: Remain a member of the EU / Leave the EU

It was not a referendum on whether you believed one side or the other in the debate. Everyone was free to ignore them entirely & make up their own mind. The referendum may have been an utterly stupid idea in the first place, but it wasn't flawed, it was a very simple question. The fact that many people may have made their choice based on flawed information does not, in itself, invalid the referendum result. Sadly.


----------



## Twattor (Jun 28, 2016)

T & P said:


> Considering that the the Leave camp has consistently lied through their teeth about their main pledges, and have already backtracked on all of them, the people who voted Leave were deceived and the referendum was decided under false pretenses and a package of fucking lies.
> 
> Given the potentially very grave consequences of Brexit and the importance of the matter, I'd say that ignoring the result or having a second referendum is the only course of action.



No.  That would set a terrible precedent for re-visiting election results which could be applied to pretty much any election for perpetuity.  Nothing would ever happen.  Everyone knows politicians lie, you have to do your best to get through the lies and work out your own opinion.

The govt should have learned something from the boaty mcboatface debacle - the british populace love nothing more than to fuck things up if given the chance.


----------



## Winot (Jun 28, 2016)

Agreed. We cannot run the referendum again or ignore the result. Unfortunately. 

The referendum did not however decide *how* to leave the EU. There is no mandate for that. That's why we need an early General Election, so the politicians can offer their plans and so the voters can decide between them.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 28, 2016)

Twattor said:


> No.  That would set a terrible precedent for re-visiting election results which could be applied to pretty much any election for perpetuity.


Isn't the referendum we've just had a re-visiting of an earlier decision?
Nigel Farage certainly claimed it was in the EU parliament this morning.

If a referendum on capital punishment was proposed what is the counter argument?


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 28, 2016)

Winot said:


> Agreed. We cannot run the referendum again or ignore the result.


Oh I think we can. The electorate aren't up to the job of giving a sensible answer to a technical question like that. It's like asking them to vote on how to carry out open heart surgery. It's just too hard. Voting needs to be restricted to the broad themes of left, right and crypto-fascist or you won't get a sensible response.


----------



## Winot (Jun 28, 2016)

Ol Nick said:


> Oh I think we can. The electorate aren't up to the job of giving a sensible answer to a technical question like that. It's like asking them to vote on how to carry out open heart surgery. It's just too hard. Voting needs to be restricted to the broad themes of left, right and crypto-fascist or you won't get a sensible response.



Tempting though it is to ignore the electorate, that's what got us into this trouble in the first place.


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 28, 2016)

Winot said:


> Tempting though it is to ignore the electorate, that's what got us into this trouble in the first place.


Point taken, but I don't really want to ignore them. I want to ask them the right question. A question they can reasonably expect to answer.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 28, 2016)

Ol Nick said:


> Point taken, but I don't really want to ignore them. I want to ask them the right question. A question they can reasonably expect to answer.



Not to put too fine a point on it, whose "right question"?

I'm not a great fan of plebiscites. Too often they don't serve the needs of the people, just the needs of the government.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 28, 2016)

Winot said:


> Tempting though it is to ignore the electorate, that's what got us into this trouble in the first place.


I was in the 6th form when we went in in 1972. Don't remember any popular revolt at this. There was a lot of dissatisfaction with decimalisation which was perceived (and was actually) highly inflationary.

There were similar ructions about VAT being introduced. This covered a wider range of goods than purchase tax - and also replaced Selective Employment Tax (not popular with barbers).

So I don't quite see where the problem was in 1972-3.

As regards the first referendum, this was to appease Enoch Powell and Tony Benn. As you can see from the result 
Yes: 17,378,581 (67.2%) No: 8,470,073 (32.8%)
people were generally in favour.

Tonight Channel 4 news was disturbed to a degree by an unauthorised mass student demonstration in favour of "Remain" - 4 days after the result. Nothng like that happened back in 1975.

I put this down to 40 years of Murdoch indoctrination. Plus German and French governments with all the delicacy of Bismark.

Not to forget Nigel Farage - whose monomania is only matched by David Cameron's arrogant self-belief.


----------



## Black Halo (Jun 29, 2016)

Twattor said:


> That would set a terrible precedent for re-visiting election results


Isn't that what we do every time there is an election, i.e. revisit the last election's results?

The difference here is we can't wait five years, there will be nothing to revisit...


----------



## Winot (Jun 29, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I was in the 6th form when we went in in 1972. Don't remember any popular revolt at this. There was a lot of dissatisfaction with decimalisation which was perceived (and was actually) highly inflationary.
> 
> There were similar ructions about VAT being introduced. This covered a wider range of goods than purchase tax - and also replaced Selective Employment Tax (not popular with barbers).
> 
> ...



I didn't actually mean that we'd ignored the electorate on Europe - just on other things (UKIP's boost in the North at GE 2015 should have given them a clue). And what has emerged in the historical revisiting of 1975 is that the 'we were sold a pup we thought we were voting for a simple trade agreement' is bollocks - the fact that it involved a devolution of sovereignty to European institutions was made perfectly clear.

Agree with you on the rest of your post.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2016)

Winot said:


> the fact that it involved a devolution of sovereignty to European institutions was made perfectly clear.



Mister Dougan says there is no devolution of sovereignty (3.20 onwards)


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2016)

Sovereign Loss is getting hoofed out of the Prince of Wales
Goodbye Sovereign Loss: Brixton’s hidden cocktail bar gets moved out of the Prince Of Wales


----------



## leanderman (Jun 29, 2016)

Winot said:


> (UKIP's boost in the North at GE 2015 should have given them a clue). .



Yep. A proportional electoral system would have revealed the danger we were in.


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 29, 2016)

Ol Nick said:


> Whereas as the despicable Kate Hoey published photos of herself in a boat with grinning with Nigel Farage.


Here it is!


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2016)

Soooo depressing


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2016)

This version better though


----------



## lefteri (Jun 29, 2016)

Came here for brixton news, found only more referendum chat :-(


----------



## lefteri (Jun 29, 2016)

Smick said:


> I think that Chinooks are used to transport large numbers of troops or heavy equipment into places difficult to get to by land. So I'd imagine it's a training exercise. I often see them fly along the Thames and that is apparently training. I don't understand why they need to train over such a busy city.



I've seen chinooks over my part of brixton quite a few times over the years, must be training as you say but why they need to train in flying over a capital city quite so often is beyond me


----------



## CH1 (Jun 29, 2016)

I hadn't noticed the complains yet about bricks.co.uk at 400 Coldharbour Lane (former Granda cabs).
What I can't work out is this - is this a kind of advertising gimmick, or is it a genuine business?

Either way I daresay the residents at Connaught Mansions prefer this to Rosa' Thai Restaurant, which was originally going to be moving into the premises.


----------



## EastEnder (Jun 29, 2016)

Brixton Tesco has moved _everything_ around!  Nothing is where it used to be, took me 15 minutes to locate the garlic salt... I'm too old to cope with change, why do they do this to me?!


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> Brixton Tesco has moved _everything_ around!  Nothing is where it used to be, took me 15 minutes to locate the garlic salt... I'm too old to cope with change, why do they do this to me?!


This happened the other day in Loughborough Junction Co-op and I could not locate the almond milk


----------



## lefteri (Jun 29, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I hadn't noticed the complains yet about bricks.co.uk at 400 Coldharbour Lane (former Granda cabs).
> What I can't work out is this - is this a kind of advertising gimmick, or is it a genuine business?
> 
> Either way I daresay the residents at Connaught Mansions prefer this to Rosa' Thai Restaurant, which was originally going to be moving into the premises.


well the website Bricks. has nothing to do with brixton, surprised ibstock doesn't own the domain to be honest


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 29, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> Brixton Tesco has moved _everything_ around!  Nothing is where it used to be, took me 15 minutes to locate the garlic salt... I'm too old to cope with change, why do they do this to me?!


Again? They did that 6 years ago and I still haven't got used it. I honestly spent 6 month thinking they'd removed the cereals completely.


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 29, 2016)

lefteri said:


> Came here for brixton news, found only more referendum chat :-(


That's not chat. That's quality photo-reportage.


----------



## lefteri (Jun 29, 2016)

Ol Nick said:


> That's not chat. That's quality photo-reportage.


that I saw on facebook a week ago, jeez


----------



## Greebo (Jun 29, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> Brixton Tesco has moved _everything_ around!  Nothing is where it used to be, took me 15 minutes to locate the garlic salt... I'm too old to cope with change, why do they do this to me?!


In a moment of sheer and utter lack of genius, Water Lane Sainsburys  has moved the hummus and other assorted vegetarian dips* into the fresh meat aisle.  

*They used to be in the same aisle as the cheese.


----------



## Ol Nick (Jun 29, 2016)

lefteri said:


> that I saw on facebook a week ago, jeez


Oh I see. Its so over now, seeing your "Labour" MP photo-opping with fascists is it? Because you saw it on Facebook last week.

Did Facebook show you any of her fox-hunting pics?


----------



## lefteri (Jun 29, 2016)

Ol Nick said:


> Oh I see. Its so over now, seeing your "Labour" MP photo-opping with fascists is it? Because you saw it on Facebook last week.
> 
> Did Facebook show you any of her fox-hunting pics?


Mate there's no need to get chippy, I was only being a bit facetious - she's my MP, it makes my blood boil and yes I know full well she's a fox hunter, countryside alliance member - I'll never vote for her.  Her referendum campaign leaflet ended up stuck to my window defaced and telling her to fuck off - I was referring to the pages of general talk about the referendum in the brixton news forum - the media is saturated with referendum fallout to the point where even a general election in spain on sunday got no coverage at all.  I'm sick of the sight of Farage - things seem to be in massive flux and I don't see the point of just being angry at our pathetic representatives - there's surely more productive action to be taken


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## editor (Jun 29, 2016)

CH1 said:


> I hadn't noticed the complains yet about bricks.co.uk at 400 Coldharbour Lane (former Granda cabs).
> What I can't work out is this - is this a kind of advertising gimmick, or is it a genuine business?
> 
> Either way I daresay the residents at Connaught Mansions prefer this to Rosa' Thai Restaurant, which was originally going to be moving into the premises.


I was going to post up a feature about it. It looks like an estate agents, and there's something a bit whiffy about the whole thing.


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## editor (Jun 29, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> Brixton Tesco has moved _everything_ around!  Nothing is where it used to be, took me 15 minutes to locate the garlic salt... I'm too old to cope with change, why do they do this to me?!


You think that is bad? Have you seen what they've done to WH Smiths? They've compressed the magazine section into a single corridor where there's barely any room to browse.


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## EastEnder (Jun 29, 2016)

Greebo said:


> In a moment of sheer and utter lack of genius, Water Lane Sainsburys  has moved the hummus and other assorted vegetarian dips* into the fresh meat aisle.
> 
> *They used to be in the same aisle as the cheese.


I believe the Mayans predicted this as a harbinger of the end of days.


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## Ol Nick (Jun 29, 2016)

lefteri said:


> Mate there's no need to get chippy, I was only being a bit facetious - ... - there's surely more productive action to be taken


Oh OK. You're probably right. I am still quite annoyed.


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## lefteri (Jun 29, 2016)

Ol Nick said:


> Oh OK. You're probably right. I am still quite annoyed.



Anger is an Energy


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## leanderman (Jun 29, 2016)

Greebo said:


> In a moment of sheer and utter lack of genius, Water Lane Sainsburys  has moved the hummus and other assorted vegetarian dips* into the fresh meat aisle.
> 
> *They used to be in the same aisle as the cheese.



Also very disappointed at the withdrawal - because of high theft rates - of those handy tug-along black baskets in there.


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## Greebo (Jun 29, 2016)

leanderman said:


> Also very disappointed at the withdrawal - because of high theft rates - of those handy tug-along black baskets in there.


Agreed.  So much more manoeuverable than trollies, and IMHO more compatible with walking sticks.


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## teuchter (Jun 29, 2016)

We still have tug-along baskets in Loughborough Junction co-op 

Maybe not much longer now I've posted this.


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## CH1 (Jun 29, 2016)

teuchter said:


> We still have tug-along baskets in Loughborough Junction co-op
> Maybe not much longer now I've posted this.


From what I gather there is also an attentive security guard so maybe all is not lost for you.


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## 299 old timer (Jun 30, 2016)

1 bedroom property for sale in Canterbury Crescent, Brixton, SW9 - Guide price £3,250,000


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## fentiman (Jun 30, 2016)

Vauxhall constituency Labour Party meeting is going to be interesting tonight -

"*UPDATE -* *Vauxhall All Member's Meeting - Thursday 30th June at 7.30*
Due to the rapidly changing pace of events, the challenge facing both the Labour Party and the country, we have decided to focus the meeting on a discussion about the current political climate. This will include, but will not be limited to, the referendum campaign and result, the Labour leadership and the future of the Labour Party, and implications for the UK and the Labour position.  We will not vote on any emergency motions and will not have any guest speakers, instead focusing on having an all-inclusive discussion allowing all members to have their say."

I imagine the Vauxhall Labour members will have something to say to our MP Kate Hoey about her campaigning with Farage


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## se5 (Jun 30, 2016)

299 old timer said:


> 1 bedroom property for sale in Canterbury Crescent, Brixton, SW9 - Guide price £3,250,000



Oh dear estate agents lack of numeracy showing through - this one http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-42411171.html which looks remarkably similar (even down to the red microwave in the kitchen) is available  for £325,000


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## editor (Jun 30, 2016)

Bricks & Co: Mystery shopfront appears on Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


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## EastEnder (Jun 30, 2016)

editor said:


> Bricks & Co: Mystery shopfront appears on Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


Call me a killjoy, but I can't help feeling the old taxi place was maybe, just possibly, a tad more useful.....


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## cuppa tee (Jun 30, 2016)

fentiman said:


> Vauxhall constituency Labour Party meeting is going to be interesting tonight -
> 
> "*UPDATE -* *Vauxhall All Member's Meeting - Thursday 30th June at 7.30*
> Due to the rapidly changing pace of events, the challenge facing both the Labour Party and the country, we have decided to focus the meeting on a discussion about the current political climate. This will include, but will not be limited to, the referendum campaign and result, the Labour leadership and the future of the Labour Party, and implications for the UK and the Labour position.  We will not vote on any emergency motions and will not have any guest speakers, instead focusing on having an all-inclusive discussion allowing all members to have their say."
> ...



I was looking at Ms Hoeys parliamentary voting record last night and she seems to be mostly anti- war, and anti austerity, she also seems reluctant to bin Corbo.......


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## Maharani (Jun 30, 2016)

Best place for sushi in Brixton? My daughter is obsessed with it.


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## Maharani (Jun 30, 2016)

And anyone have experience of the Chinese restaurant on Atlantic road? I'm sure I've heard it's pretty good.


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## EastEnder (Jun 30, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Best place for sushi in Brixton? My daughter is obsessed with it.


I like Fujiyama: Google Maps


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## sparkybird (Jun 30, 2016)

Maharani said:


> And anyone have experience of the Chinese restaurant on Atlantic road? I'm sure I've heard it's pretty good.


Do you mean Courtesan?
I used to like it ALOT - great dim sum, but they never seem to be that busy. The last time I went the menu had changed a bit (sort of expanded into what I call 'brown food') and I didn't rate it so highly - haven't been back since


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## Maharani (Jun 30, 2016)

EastEnder said:


> I like Fujiyama: Google Maps


I find it really hit and miss. Never had their sushi either but feel like theirs would be bought in.


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## Maharani (Jun 30, 2016)

sparkybird said:


> Do you mean Courtesan?
> I used to like it ALOT - great dim sum, but they never seem to be that busy. The last time I went the menu had changed a bit (sort of expanded into what I call 'brown food') and I didn't rate it so highly - haven't been back since


Yes. I might give it a go, although it's not sushi but I love dim sum.


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## technical (Jun 30, 2016)

Haven't been for quite a while but ichiban has always been good

The place in pop is also good for sushi 

My 7 year old is also obsessed with sushi to the extent she tries to make her own. You can guess what the results look like


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## Maharani (Jun 30, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Yes. I might give it a go, although it's not sushi but I love dim sum.


Actually, scratch that. The reviews are pretty shit. Shame. Don't know any decent local Chinese that isn't gloopy muck.


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## sparkybird (Jun 30, 2016)

Such a shame as when it first opened it was ace. I ate in ichiban once a while back and was pleasantly surprised. Better than Fujiyama. Maybe give it a go?


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## Winot (Jun 30, 2016)

Maharani said:


> I find it really hit and miss. Never had their sushi either but feel like theirs would be bought in.



They certainly used to make it there - you could watch them. But I always preferred Ichiban.


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## Winot (Jun 30, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Actually, scratch that. The reviews are pretty shit. Shame. Don't know any decent local Chinese that isn't gloopy muck.



If you find one let us know.

Dragon Castle in Elephant is good if you're willing to get on a bus.


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## gaijingirl (Jun 30, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Best place for sushi in Brixton? My daughter is obsessed with it.



Ichiban.  Fujiyama is really not very good.


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## Maharani (Jun 30, 2016)

Winot said:


> If you find one let us know.
> 
> Dragon Castle in Elephant is good if you're willing to get on a bus.


Yeah but it does innards and stuff...it's offal...not for me.


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## editor (Jun 30, 2016)

We're opening the July thread early so I can get to the pub:  Brixton news, rumour and general chat - July 2016


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