# Alien Covenant



## Bungle73 (Dec 25, 2016)




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## Reno (Dec 25, 2016)

I'll believe it when I see the actual film.


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## Beats & Pieces (Dec 27, 2016)

Visually this is what you would expect from Scott - but I very much hope that the film builds and expands upon 'Prometheus', rather than swerving away in the direction of Cameron's 'Aliens'.


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## Reno (Dec 27, 2016)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Visually this is what you would expect from Scott - but I very much hope that the film builds and expands upon 'Prometheus', rather than swerving away in the direction of Cameron's 'Aliens'.


I very much hope this swerves far away from the mess that was Prometheus and comes closer to Alien, which strikes me as the film to invoke here rather than that of a director with a very different style from that of Scott.


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## Beats & Pieces (Dec 27, 2016)

Reno said:


> I very much hope this swerves far away from the mess that was Prometheus and comes closer to Alien, which strikes me as the film to invoke here rather than that of a director with a very different style from that of Scott.



We just have to disagree, 'Prometheus' is a far more intriguing - 'Alien' is a good film (especially visually) - but it really isn't more than 'Jaws' in space.


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## Reno (Dec 27, 2016)

Beats & Pieces said:


> We just have to disagree, 'Prometheus' is a far more intriguing - 'Alien' is a good film (especially visually) - but it really isn't more than 'Jaws' in space.


I think I've just lost all respect for your taste in films. 

Alien only is "Jaws in space" if you manage to totally ignore any of its subtext.


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## Beats & Pieces (Dec 27, 2016)

Reno said:


> I think I've just lost all respect for your taste in films.



Come on, 'Alien' is a good film but that is largely because of the visual impact and the way the story is told. It also has a very strong female character. But beyond that? 'Prometheus' was flawed, and appears to have been a work in progress in shooting (the deleted scenes indicate this especially), but at least it _tried_ to tell an interesting story.


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## snadge (Dec 27, 2016)

Well it's fucked up already if Fassbander is starring and Noomi Rapace isn't, the pair of them flew off into the sunset on Prometheus to find the makers.

I also liked the premise of Prometheus, could have been better but was still entertaining .


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## Reno (Dec 28, 2016)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Come on, 'Alien' is a good film but that is largely because of the visual impact and the way the story is told. It also has a very strong female character. But beyond that? 'Prometheus' was flawed, and appears to have been a work in progress in shooting (the deleted scenes indicate this especially), but at least it _tried_ to tell an interesting story.


I don't think attempting to skew the Alien universe towards 2001 via Chariot of the Gods mumbojumbo makes for an interesting or original story. Prometheus looked nice and had a few decent individual scenes, but it was a completely schizophrenic film where Ridley Scott couldn't make up his mind what story he did want to tell.

I don't believe a film necessarily need to have a great "story" to be a great film or to be able to say something interesting. Films aren't books. On the surface Alien may just be Jaws or And Then There Were None in space, but there are so many interesting ideas woven into that. It's not just that the film has a strong female lead which was most unusual then for a big budget science fiction film, the whole film is a nightmare exploration of sexual violence and male/female tensions, not to talk of its critique of corporate culture and it's genuinely novel take on an alien life cycle.

It's not neccesarely the story which makes a film, it's how the story gets told cinematically (mise en scene). On the surface Vertigo, my favourite film and considered Hitchcock's masterpiece, has a story which is full of plot holes and which falls apart on close examination. It's the subtext which is woven through the film which makes the film great and where its true meaning lies. This idea that the best film is the one with the best story is such a British idea and it comes from it being a literary more than a visual culture.


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## Beats & Pieces (Dec 28, 2016)

Reno said:


> I think I've just lost all respect for your taste in films.
> 
> Alien only is "Jaws in space" if you manage to totally ignore any of its subtext.





Reno said:


> I don't think attempting to skew the Alien towards 2001 via Chariot of the Gods mumbojumbo makes for an interesting or original story. Prometheus looked nice and had a few decent individual scenes, but it was a completely schizophrenic film where Ridly Scott couldn't make up his mind what story he did want to tell.
> 
> I don't believe a film necessarily need to have a great "story" to be a great film or to be able to say something interesting. Films aren't books. On the surface Alien may just be Jaws or And Then There Were None in space, but there are so many interesting ideas woven into that. It's not just that the film has a strong female lead which was most unusual then for a big budget science fiction film, the whole film is a nightmare exploration of sexual violence and male/male tensions, not to talk of its critique of corporate culture and it's genuinely novel take on an alien life cycle.
> 
> It's not neccesarely the story which makes a film it's how the story gets told cinematically (mise en scene). On the surface Vertigo, my favourite film and considered Hitchcock's masterpiece, has a story which is full of plot holes and it falls apart on close examination. It's the subtext which is woven through the film which makes the film great and whereits true meaning lies. This idea that the best film is the one with the best story is such a British idea and it comes from it being a literary more than a visual culture.



I thought it was interesting, wanting to know a little more about the strange and long dead creature that the Nostromo crew encountered upon entering the alien craft and which was clearly linked to the 'Alien' in the ship's hold. I think you also can see the problem with the film, which (as I indicated) appears to stem from an uncertainty during filming. This might also be interpreted as flexibility but there was one key deleted scene featuring the two doomed scientists which strongly indicated the former. The sex element in 'Alien' is undeniable, stemming from Giger's designs and the positioning of rape, but this was a film designed to shock (which it did) without making any great claim to meta or micro narratives. 

I like your idea regarding a possible literary / visual dichotomy in film linked to culture - if you have any further recommendations I would be interested in exploring this further!


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## EastEnder (Mar 2, 2017)

New Alien: Covenant Trailer!

It'd better not be as shit as Prometheus.


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 2, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Come on, 'Alien' is a good film but that is largely because of the visual impact and the way the story is told. It also has a very strong female character. But beyond that? 'Prometheus' was flawed, and appears to have been a work in progress in shooting (the deleted scenes indicate this especially), but at least it _tried_ to tell an interesting story.


No, it was just a mismash of unoriginal ideas.


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## Beats & Pieces (Mar 2, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


> No, it was just a mismash of unoriginal ideas.



Interesting and original are not the same thing.


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## Johnny Vodka (Mar 2, 2017)

Well, I enjoyed Prometheus far more than I expected to, and look forward to seeing this.


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## TruXta (Mar 2, 2017)

Anyone who rates Prometheus over Alien should be ban themselves from ever again commenting in this forum. Embarrassing. Prometheus was a passable romp with some appropriate moments of wtf and eye-candy, but unlike Alien it never even rose a shaky middle finger to the genre conventions, nor did it, as already commented on, have an interesting or coherent plot.


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## bi0boy (Mar 2, 2017)

Prometheus with that stupid statue is the worst film I've ever seen in a cinema. 

The other Prometheus with the aliens was miles better.


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## EastEnder (Mar 2, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Anyone who rates Prometheus over Alien should be ban themselves from ever again commenting in this forum. Embarrassing. Prometheus was a passable romp with some appropriate moments of wtf and eye-candy, but unlike Alien it never even rose a shaky middle finger to the genre conventions, nor did it, as already commented on, have an interesting or coherent plot.


Prometheus is the Highlander 2 of the Alien series.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 2, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Prometheus is the Highlander 2 of the Alien series.


what does that make 3 then, the interesting but flawed one?


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## EastEnder (Mar 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> what does that make 3 then, the interesting but flawed one?


I would never compare Prometheus to Highlander 3. It could never be _that_ bad.


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## TruXta (Mar 2, 2017)

Apart from the first, the other, what - 4? just merge into one slow delta of mediocrity.


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## belboid (Mar 2, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Interesting and original are not the same thing.


Sadly it was neither original or particularly interesting. I tried to like it, or at least find it interesting, but it was just a confused mess.


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## passenger (Mar 2, 2017)

That was such a shame I was really looking forward to Prometheus, I told my
friends this was going to be the next big thing


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## DotCommunist (Mar 2, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Apart from the first, the other, what - 4? just merge into one slow delta of mediocrity.


I wouldn't mind a reboot tbf. The idea itself is cool enough.


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## lefteri (Mar 2, 2017)

Looks really run of the mill - the only bits of alien architecture you see in the trailer are ones from the original film


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## A380 (Mar 3, 2017)

I think Aliens is by far the best film of the franchise.

There, I've said it. Game over man. Game over

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.


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## Bungle73 (Mar 3, 2017)

A380 said:


> I think Aliens is by far the best film of the franchise.
> 
> There, I've said it. Game over man. Game over
> 
> I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.


It's the only way to be sure.


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## kabbes (Mar 3, 2017)

I'd forgotten almost everything about Prometheus within half an hour of watching it.  I can still remember all the fine detail of Alien and Aliens.  That tells you everything you need to know about the strength of ideas and overarching vision and plot of the respective films.


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## TruXta (Mar 3, 2017)

A380 said:


> I think Aliens is by far the best film of the franchise.
> 
> There, I've said it. Game over man. Game over
> 
> I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.


See, I disagree, but I can respect that. Aliens is a damned fine action horror. I'd say it doesn't have the raw nerve of Alien, but it does make up for that in sheer kinetic impact.


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## mentalchik (Mar 4, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> We just have to disagree, 'Prometheus' is a far more intriguing - 'Alien' is a good film (especially visually) - but it really isn't more than 'Jaws' in space.



just out of interest how old are you ?


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## Santino (Mar 4, 2017)

'Covenant' is one of those vaguely portentous words that supposedly make books and films seem more serious.


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## EastEnder (Mar 4, 2017)

TruXta said:


> See, I disagree, but I can respect that. Aliens is a damned fine action horror. I'd say it doesn't have the raw nerve of Alien, but it does make up for that in sheer kinetic impact.


Respectfully disagreeing is no fun, please inject more apoplectic vitriol in future comments.


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## TruXta (Mar 4, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Respectfully disagreeing is no fun, please inject more apoplectic vitriol in future comments.


I respectfully disagree.


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## Beats & Pieces (Mar 5, 2017)




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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 6, 2017)

Well...I liked the trailer...


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 6, 2017)

Santino said:


> 'Covenant' is one of those vaguely portentous words that supposedly make books and films seem more serious.



Shameless lift from the Halo franchise.


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## hot air baboon (Mar 6, 2017)

Prince Charles Cinema  - Leicester Square showing a double header of Alien & Aliens ( Directors cut ) ....   

The Prince Charles Cinema


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## emanymton (Mar 6, 2017)

It will be shit.

There have been 2 good Alien films, and 1 fun sci-fi romp about space pirates. Thats it, and thats all we are going to get thats worth watching.


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## Beats & Pieces (Mar 11, 2017)




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## Pseudopsycho (Mar 11, 2017)

emanymton said:


> It will be shit.
> 
> There have been 2 good Alien films, and 1 fun sci-fi romp about space pirates. Thats it, and thats all we are going to get thats worth watching.


How many Doctors have been asked "Who"? and how many films have been set in the Skywalkers's neighbourhood?


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## Beats & Pieces (Mar 23, 2017)




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## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2017)

is that one of the Engineers in the middle there? I couldn't finish prometheus as it was awful


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## binka (Mar 27, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> is that one of the Engineers in the middle there? I couldn't finish prometheus as it was awful


Didn't you say on the sci fi thread that you have a low bar with sci fi and you were sticking up for Jupiter Ascending... Prometheus was a bit of a mess but come on!


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## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2017)

binka said:


> Didn't you say on the sci fi thread that you have a low bar with sci fi and you were sticking up for Jupiter Ascending... Prometheus was a bit of a mess but come on!


the crime is being boring tbf. And Prometheus, I gave it two goes, just was for me


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## trabuquera (Mar 27, 2017)

you should finish it off DotCommunist, because after a while it becomes so stupid it goes beyond boring into being intriguing, you keep watching for the facepalm moments.


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## neonwilderness (Apr 25, 2017)

Liaen Oven Can't


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## EastEnder (Apr 25, 2017)

neonwilderness said:


> Liaen Oven Can't


From the director of The Martian and Alien? So no mention of Prometheus then? Funny that...!


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## Orang Utan (Apr 25, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> From the director of The Martian and Alien? So no mention of Prometheus then? Funny that...!


From the director of Legend, GI Jane and A Good Year...


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## EastEnder (Apr 25, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> From the director of Legend, GI Jane and A Good Year...


Probably not much room on the sign to mention all his non-spacey, non-alieny films...........

If the sign's gonna mention 'Alien', why not the most recent one? Cos it shits balls, that's why. It's like selectively leaving off crappy jobs from your CV.


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## Beats & Pieces (Apr 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> is that one of the Engineers in the middle there? I couldn't finish prometheus as it was awful



It looks like it might be - it would tie in with the mural we see in 'Prometheus' (a film I quite like despite the flaws). Some of the recently released magazine shots seem to reveal a bit too much in the way of (what we might assume to be) 'Paradise'.

Looking forward to seeing this one.


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## T & P (Apr 26, 2017)

A380 said:


> I think Aliens is by far the best film of the franchise.
> 
> There, I've said it. Game over man. Game over
> 
> I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.


IMO it's both futile and unfair to try to nominate a 'best in series' film in the Alien franchise. Alien and Aliens are such different beasts... both have massive merit but are different genres really. One can see how people might have a favourite depending on their personal tastes.

I happen to love both atmospheric horror and sci-fi themes, so I refuse to be dragged into a which-one-is-best argument. But at the least I'm happy to say Aliens must be one of the top three sequels ever made, and one of the best action movies as well.


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## Dandred (Apr 26, 2017)

Out on the 9th here in Korea!


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## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2017)

T & P said:


> IMO it's both futile and unfair to try to nominate a 'best in series' film in the Alien franchise. Alien and Aliens are such different beasts... both have massive merit but are different genres really. One can see how people might have a favourite depending on their personal tastes.
> 
> I happen to love both atmospheric horror and sci-fi themes, so I refuse to be dragged into a which-one-is-best argument. But at the least I'm happy to say Aliens must be one of the top three sequels ever made, and one of the best action movies as well.


predator 2 as well. back when they knew how to make sequels


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## Orang Utan (Apr 26, 2017)

I always found Aliens to be a bit dull and overlong.


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## Nanker Phelge (Apr 26, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I always found Aliens to be a bit dull and overlong.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2017)

directors cut is longer. and better


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## EastEnder (Apr 26, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I always found Aliens to be a bit dull and overlong.


After consulting with the elders, it has been decided that your opinion on this subject is null & void.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 26, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> After consulting with the elders, it has been decided that your opinion on this subject is null & void.


it's a valid opinion, when you consider how it contrasts with the tautness of Alien


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## EastEnder (Apr 26, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> it's a valid opinion, when you consider how it contrasts with the tautness of Alien


Way more action in Aliens. Suspense is good, but should be married with a healthy dose of kick-ass blow-the-crap-out-of-everything-ness. Aliens hits the sweet spot.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2017)

an outstanding slimpy bastard performance from weyland-yutani company man. Some build up, the balls out all the way. All the best lines 'kill me, please, kill me'

the knife game with bishop

newt.


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## EastEnder (Apr 26, 2017)

They mostly come out at night, mostly...


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## Santino (Apr 26, 2017)

It's very tense towards the end, wondering whether Newt will be killed by the aliens, or instead live until just after the credits to be killed off-screen while asleep.


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## kabbes (Apr 26, 2017)

"Game over, man!"
"Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"
"Get away from her, you bitch"
Everything said by Vasquez

Alien was a great film, but what lines does it have to compete with Aliens?


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## belboid (Apr 26, 2017)

kabbes said:


> "Game over, man!"
> "Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure"
> "Get away from her, you bitch"
> Everything said by Vasquez
> ...


So, um, we think we should discuss the bonus situation..

I admire its purity. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

Ash is a robot!

I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies

This is Ripley, last survivor of the Nostromo, signing off.

Here, Jonesy


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## EastEnder (Apr 26, 2017)

So we're in agreement then? Orang Utan knows nothing & his views should be stricken from the record.


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## Bungle73 (Apr 26, 2017)

Just experienced a short 3D 360 VR thing where you're the alien breaking out someone's body from a scene in the movie. Pretty cool. Lots of blood.


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## EastEnder (Apr 26, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Just experienced a short 3D 360 VR thing where you're the alien breaking out someone's body from a scene in the movie. Pretty cool. Lots of blood.


Can you choose which bit of the body you get to burst out of?


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## Bungle73 (Apr 26, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Can you choose which bit of the body you get to burst out of?


Which "part" would you like to be bursting out of? 

Nah, it's a passive experience where you just sit back and watch. It only lasts a few minutes.


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## Bungle73 (Apr 26, 2017)

This is the best video I could find.......doesn't really show anything.



Edit: 'Alien: Covenant in Utero' on Oculus Rift is a disgusting and terrifying pleasure


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## sleaterkinney (May 1, 2017)




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## Johnny Vodka (May 7, 2017)

Average review in The Guardian, great review in The Independent.


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## DotCommunist (May 7, 2017)

> Here’s a sentence I’m just incredibly sad to type: _Alien: Covenant_ is bad.
> 
> 
> It’s not _terrible_. Director Ridley Scott didn’t make some kind of hugely annoying, incoherent movie or anything like that. There are a few pockets of enjoyment in what unfolds on screen and watching it is semi-pleasant. But after the credits roll, mulling over everything you just saw, the film continues to sour like milk left out in the sun. It was good for a little bit, but not for long, and that’s just not good enough for a franchise with this history.



 hoping io9 reviewer got this wrong


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## Johnny Vodka (May 7, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> hoping io9 reviewer got this wrong



Probably.  Sounds like a whinger.


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## Orang Utan (May 7, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Probably.  Sounds like a whinger.


Well, if you don't like a film, you should say so. Is that whinging?


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## Johnny Vodka (May 7, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Well, if you don't like a film, you should say so. Is that whinging?



Yup.  People whinged about Prometheus.  It was a fun Alien film.  Some people like moaning just for the sake of it.  I expect this new film will be icky and entertaining.


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## Orang Utan (May 7, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Yup.  People whinged about Prometheus.  It was a fun Alien film.  Some people like moaning just for the sake of it.  I expect this new film will be icky and entertaining.


So when people have a different opinion to you, they're whinging? that explains a lot about you


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## stuff_it (May 7, 2017)

sleaterkinney said:


>



This is the film I was hoping for, not more planet-bound xenomorph-fleeing screams.


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## Bungle73 (May 7, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> hoping io9 reviewer got this wrong


It's contradictory. One minute it's "bad", and the next it's "not terrible".......


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## Orang Utan (May 7, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> It's contradictory. One minute it's "bad", and the next it's "not terrible".......


bad but not terrible. that's not contradictory


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## EastEnder (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Yup.  People whinged about Prometheus.  It was a fun Alien film.  Some people like moaning just for the sake of it.  I expect this new film will be icky and entertaining.


Expressing a difference of opinion is only "whinging" if you consider _your_ opinion inherently more valid than everyone else's, which of course would make you somewhat of a tool.

Prometheus would've been an averagely passable attempt at the scary-alien-sci-fi genre if it'd been an independent film made by relative amateurs. As the then latest incarnation of what had been one of the best instances of this genre, created by perhaps the best in the field, it was a miserable letdown. 

It's in much the same way that Star Wars The Phantom Menace would've been just an averagely naff sci-fi romp had it not been for that fact that it followed on the heels of one of the best trilogies of all time ever, thereby rendering it an astonishingly awful excuse for a film.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> So when people have a different opinion to you, they're whinging? that explains a lot about you



What are you on about?  There are a lot of people on the internet just out to put something down...  There are a lot of people that can't take something for what it is rather than what it isn't.  "Here's the new Alien film.  It doesn't have x, so I'll take a massive shit on it."

What I liked so much about Prometheus, I think, was the body horror.  Actually, it probably did that better than any of the other Alien films.  Which is why I look forward to this, though in all likelihood won't catch it until it's on the telly.


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## Orang Utan (May 8, 2017)

No, you just think they are out to put something down and can't accept the fact that they might actually be saying what they think.


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## bi0boy (May 8, 2017)

Anyone expecting anything out of Ridley Scott since like a million years ago will inevitably be disappointed.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> No, you just think they are out to put something down and can't accept the fact that they might actually be saying what they think.



Maybe they are saying what they think.  Maybe they're griping just for the sake of it or due to stupidly high expectations?  You don't accept these people exist in internetland?  Did you read the Independent review?  It sounds like if you enjoy the Alien concept, then it should be plenty entertaining.  I hope.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Anyone expecting anything out of Ridley Scott since like a million years ago will inevitably be disappointed.



Ridley Scott is generally overrated.  Prometheus is actually one of his best films.


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## Orang Utan (May 8, 2017)

I really wanted to like Prometheus but it was shit. Apparently feeling that way makes me a whinger.


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## B.I.G (May 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I really wanted to like Prometheus but it was shit. Apparently feeling that way makes me a whinger.



In the vast majority. It was also extremely badly plotted.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I really wanted to like Prometheus but it was shit. Apparently feeling that way makes me a whinger.



No, no, no.  You're not known at all for being a contrarian whinger.


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## B.I.G (May 8, 2017)

If he was contrarian he would have liked it!


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> In the vast majority. It was also extremely badly plotted.



I'm not that bothered about plot.  I just want some nice sets, a bit of tension and loads of things bursting out of people.    Neither Alien or Aliens is loved for its plot.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> If he was contrarian he would have liked it!



Check Metacritic and Rotten Tomatoes.


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## B.I.G (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm not that bothered about plot.  I just want some nice sets, a bit of tension and loads of things bursting out of people.    Neither Alien or Aliens is loved for its plot.



Its nice if they made sense. But I don't see how you can find any of the alien films bad against that standard, which means more alien action for all


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## EastEnder (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Ridley Scott is generally overrated.  Prometheus is actually one of his best films.


Have you seen any of his other films?


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## belboid (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm not that bothered about plot.  I just want some nice sets, a bit of tension and loads of things bursting out of people.    Neither Alien or Aliens is loved for its plot.


Yes they are.


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## belboid (May 8, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Have you seen any of his other films?


To be honest, he has been pretty shit for the best part of twenty years. Prometheus is about average for that period.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Its nice if they made sense. But I don't see how you can find any of the alien films bad against that standard, which means more alien action for all



I like Alien 3 and maybe about half of the fourth...


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Have you seen any of his other films?



Yes.  I almost fell asleep during Gladiator, though.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

belboid said:


> Yes they are.


 
I'll take your word for it.


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## EastEnder (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Yes.  I almost fell asleep during Gladiator, though.


I concede he's gone downhill over the years, never more evidenced by the cinematic crime of Prometheus, but he was once groundbreaking. That's why his later stuff has been such a disappointment.


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> I concede he's gone downhill over the years, never more evidenced by the cinematic crime of Prometheus, but he was once groundbreaking. That's why his later stuff has been such a disappointment.



Two 'classics' at best?


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## Orang Utan (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> No, no, no.  You're not known at all for being a contrarian whinger.


i'm just honest


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## kabbes (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka is shit.  That's not whinging, it's just fact.


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## belboid (May 8, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Two 'classics' at best?


Three (tho one is mostly about women, so I guess you wont have liked it). 

You seem to like Prommy because it looks pretty and has some nice bits. What else does that remind me of?


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## Johnny Vodka (May 8, 2017)

belboid said:


> Three (tho one is mostly about women, so I guess you wont have liked it).



That's an interesting assumption.



belboid said:


> You seem to like Prommy because it looks pretty and has some nice bits. What else does that remind me of?



Please tell.  I'm intrigued.


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## Dandred (May 9, 2017)

Just got back from seeing this at the cinema. 

It's kind of like The Force Awakens for Aliens. 

Certainly worth going to see!


----------



## Orang Utan (May 9, 2017)

Lukewarm review here:
Alien: Covenant review: Is Ridley Scott's sci-fi prequel just DOOM with facehuggers?


----------



## EastEnder (May 9, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Lukewarm review here:
> Alien: Covenant review: Is Ridley Scott's sci-fi prequel just DOOM with facehuggers?


hmmmm, maybe not worth shelling out for the cinema version then, might wait till it's downloadable...


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2017)

Mark Kermode didn't like it, calling it 'The Da Vinci Code in space':


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 13, 2017)

Commode suffers under the delusion that The Exorcist is the best film ever made, though.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Commode suffers under the delusion that The Exorcist is the best film ever made, though.


You're really desperate to like it, aren't you?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> You're really desperate to like it, aren't you?



If I like it, I like it.  If I don't, I don't.  If I watch something and am severely disappointed by it, I will say so.  Kermode has obviously come to it with a lot of high expectations.  As I've aged, I've learned to take something for what it is, not what I think/hope it should be.  I get that it's not going to be original, but if it's tense, icky and looks good, I'll probably be happy.  If it's more of what Prometheus was, I'll probably be happy.  I'll let you know in three years when it's on the telly. 

It's hard to totally fuck up anything with the Alien in it, bar the AvPs.


----------



## May Kasahara (May 13, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Neither Alien or Aliens is loved for its plot.



Speak for yourself. Or in preference, just stop talking.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 13, 2017)

May Kasahara said:


> Speak for yourself. Or in preference, just stop talking.



Alien is really just a slasher film, plot-wise.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Alien is really just a slasher film, plot-wise.


Just? 
Alien has a just about perfect plot/script.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Just?
> Alien has a just about perfect plot/script.



Plot-wise, yes - most of the film is people being stalked and killed by the alien.  It has a plot a 5 year old could understand.  The joy of the Alien films has never really been in the plots, but in the creature design, imagery, tension, themes maybe.. and I'll give you often the acting too.  That's my opinion anyhow.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Plot-wise, yes - most of the film is people being stalked and killed by the alien.  It has a plot a 5 year old could understand.  The joy of the Alien films has never really been in the plots, but in the creature design, imagery, tension, themes maybe.. and I'll give you often the acting too.  That's my opinion anyhow.


it's a shit opinion. the plot is perfect. it really is all about the plot and the lean script. Little is shown of the alien in Alien. It's brilliantly designed, but the film's most exciting when the alien is just out of shot or you are just seeing a bit of it.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> it's a shit opinion. the plot is perfect. it really is all about the plot and the lean script. Little is shown of the alien in Alien. It's brilliantly designed, but the film's most exciting when the alien is just out of shot or you are just seeing a bit of it.



It's not just the Alien, but the alien life cycle imagery - the egg, the face-hugger, the chest-buster.  There's plenty of that and I'd bet that's what fascinates most people about the film, bar the odd contrarian.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It's not just the Alien, but the alien life cycle imagery - the egg, the face-hugger, the chest-buster.  There's plenty of that and I'd bet that's what fascinates most people about the film, bar the odd contrarian.


you know nothing, Johnny Vodka


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> you know nothing, Johnny Vodka



Talk to the hand!


----------



## Gramsci (May 14, 2017)

Saw it today.

I like sci fi and liked Aliens one and two.

After reading the Independent review was intrigued and thought I would give it a go.

It's a frustrating film. There were patches were I could see this could have been a much more interesting film.

The beginning is great. A philosophical discussion between the android and his creator. Fassbender makes this film worth seeing. The best scenes are him. Some really weird scenes between Fassbender and himself. Weird in a good way. A homo erotic relationship between the two Fassbender s. (He is the android on the colony vessel "Walter"and "David" the first android marooned on the planet.)

"David" is a Colonel Kurtz figure. The scenes in his cave reminded me of Brando in Apocalypse Now. A flawed genius who had taken the path to the dark side. The film uses Wagner as well.

David names himself after the statue by Michelangelo. The perfect human. In his discussion with Walter he asks Walter why his helping the human race. David sees there wish to start again and colonise another planet as a desperate attempt and a sign they are finished as a species.

This goes through all the Alien films. The human race are the cause of there misfortunes. It's a dark view of the future of humans.

The aliens are amoral and perfect. A perverse "David". The Renaissance put the human race at the apex of creation. This is hubris. The aliens are pure existential life force. But not one that one leads to finding the meaning of life. Which Davids creator wanted.

A plotline that was not developed was the Captain. Early on its let known to us he has a Christian faith. I thought this would be used later on.

The planet can be seen as Hell. With David as the fallen angel. But it's  not followed up. The planet looks perfect but it's not right somehow. This worked well imo. Genuinely creepy in an understated way.

I wished for more of this. The action is good but it repeats a lot of scenes from previous Alien films.

I would still say go and see this film. It's better than Prometheus. It's that there was a much better film trying to get out of it.

Still it's great to see a popular film quoting Shelley at length.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 14, 2017)

Just had an interview with Ridley on The Film Programme on Radio 4, and apparently he wants to turn Alien into a franchise "like Star Wars", and apparently he wants to "open it up".


----------



## nuffsaid (May 15, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Just had an interview with Ridley on The Film Programme on Radio 4, and apparently he wants to turn Alien into a franchise "like Star Wars", and apparently he wants to "open it up".



I heard that last week. From the reviews above and what Kermode has said it seems Ridley Scott wants to have a discussion about existence played out on screen. I'm intrigued by that, but as Kermode mentions it doesn't make for a realistic script.


----------



## Gramsci (May 15, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Just had an interview with Ridley on The Film Programme on Radio 4, and apparently he wants to turn Alien into a franchise "like Star Wars", and apparently he wants to "open it up".



Ridley is not a director I like as a person. Some of his films are very good. He spent most of the interview bigging himself up. How he is a business man first. How competitive he is. Like he is proud of it.


----------



## Tankus (May 15, 2017)

worth a punt ...but not brilliant  ..alien .._by the numbers .._for the second half ...interesting  first though ...

not good enough for me to go back and see it again ....and I so wanted it to be


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 15, 2017)

Watched it tonight, one of the better Alien films.


----------



## nuffsaid (May 16, 2017)

So why are there aliens in a Convent anyway.....?


----------



## Ranbay (May 16, 2017)

Just back now, thought it was ace.....

Loads of good bits in it, and Aliens and stuff.

9.8/10


----------



## Gramsci (May 16, 2017)

Tankus said:


> worth a punt ...but not brilliant  ..alien .._by the numbers .._for the second half ...interesting  first though ...
> 
> not good enough for me to go back and see it again ....and I so wanted it to be



Agree that action in second half was repeating action from other alien films. 

The first action sequence on the planet when they panic was great. It was very well done.  Felt realistic somehow.


----------



## rekil (May 16, 2017)

nuffsaid said:


> So why are there aliens in a Convent anyway.....?


...with their reputation.


----------



## lefteri (May 16, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Just back now, thought it was ace.....
> 
> Loads of good bits in it, and Aliens and stuff.
> 
> 9.8/10



Seriously?  That would be the kind of score I'd give to the best film I'd ever seen


----------



## Ranbay (May 16, 2017)

lefteri said:


> Seriously?  That would be the kind of score I'd give to the best film I'd ever seen



Grand Theft Anal 3?


----------



## lefteri (May 16, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Grand Theft Anal 3?



9.6


----------



## Ranbay (May 16, 2017)

Nah it's no 9.8 but its 37% better than the last one.


----------



## EastEnder (May 16, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Nah it's no 9.8 but its 37% better than the last one.


A mild bout of VD would be 37% better than the last one...


----------



## Ranbay (May 16, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> A mild bout of VD would be 37% better than the last one...



I know right? why didn't they run right or left instead of stright on?

this one has loads more action and stuff and it was loud and we watched it on a super screen at a mere £17 for 2 tickets!


----------



## tommers (May 16, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> I know right? why didn't they run right or left instead of stright on?



I watched that today and that was exactly what I was thinking. 

I liked it, I thought David was brilliant, but that bit and the whole "running around with metal staples holding your belly together" bit was a bit jarring.


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 16, 2017)

Gramsci said:


> Agree that action in second half was repeating action from other alien films.
> 
> The first action sequence on the planet when they panic was great. It was very well done.  Felt realistic somehow.





Spoiler



tbh, I was a bit disappointed with the crew, I expected a bit more. Like not wandering off by yourself after half the crew has been wiped out.


----------



## yield (May 17, 2017)

Just got home from seeing it in town. I had low expectations after Prometheus but it was barely better. Michael Fassbender was the best thing about it.



> "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
> Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
> Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
> Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
> The lone and level sands stretch far away.”





Spoiler: Spoilers



As soon as David cut his hair it was obvious he'd try to replace Walter.

There was no sort of character development so how was I supposed to empathise with the crew.

How can they have travelled light years and yet not have some sort of nuclear, biological or chemical protective suits?

How did David know Walter's access codes for the ship? Plot holes miles wide.

2/10 if I'm feeling generous. Very poor.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2017)

William Gibson wrote a screenplay for Alien III:
http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/william-gibsons-never-filmed-alien-iii-script-a-history.html
Could have been interesting, like the potential Vincent Ward imagining, with its wooden monk planet.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 20, 2017)

Just seen it.
Way better than some of the reviews indicate, but definitely not as good as the first four.
There are some spectacular scenes that are basically the greatest hits of the previous films, but the story is a good one, although I knew what was going to happen at the end as it was rather telegraphed.
There's the odd moment of incoherence, but that could just be my hearing (in my view, they should do screenings of all films with subtitles).
It does repeat a few stupid things from Prometheus, like the idiotic act of landing on a new planet and investigating it without biohazard suits on, but this is quibbling.
3.5 out of 5


----------



## hot air baboon (May 21, 2017)

its definitely a genuine horror film, slightly weird as having studiously avoided spoilers, trailers & pre-release hype what I _*thought*_ the whole film was going to be ended up as a 90 second flashback - but what a flashback though - he can visualise & create scenes like that, the intro waterfall scene of Prometheus, the space walk in this one that are virtually worth the price of admission - I saw it in Imax and couldn't help being impressed by the sheer hi-gloss cinematic perfection of the visual spectacle even if you can be bit frustrated at being asked to invest in characters surviving films & then seeing them being discarded before the next film starts

the dumb colonists stuff grated but not _*quite*_ as much as the comedy xeno-biologist making "here kitty kitty" noises at the lethal death snake in the other one


----------



## Badgers (May 21, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> but definitely not as good as the first four.


First 'four'?


----------



## Thora (May 21, 2017)

I actually did enjoy Prometheus, and I didn't think Covenant was quite as good.  At several points I did think "this is just silly" (I struggled to get past landing on a completely unknown, uncharted planet and not giving a moments thought to smallpox) but I was on the edge of my seat a few times and liked the David/Walter stuff.  It was better than Alien 4 anyway.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 21, 2017)

Badgers said:


> First 'four'?


Yes. I don't rate the AvP ones


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 21, 2017)

Just back from seeing it. Shit, worse than Prometheus.


----------



## hot air baboon (May 22, 2017)

Thora said:


> and liked the David/Walter stuff.



an in-joke - the producers are David Giler & Walter Hill


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 22, 2017)

Just seen this, so still processing the experience. First thoughts would be to acknowledge the visual qualities of the film, although there are moments when the sheen falls away. To my mid this *shits* all over 'Prometheus' in a way that I don't much like - the fate of Dr Shaw is never fully explained, and struck quite hard as a betryal of the character's strengths. The small matter of having been on a dissection table for *ten years* is also handled clumsily and, given the money spent elsewhere, in an apparently shockingly cheap way. It appears to be little more than a quick repositioning of the *Alien franchise*, with a view to further movies (thus money). 

I did like the soundtrack, with the effective melding of audio cues from across the series, although (as ever) Scott's use of 'culture' can be high handed and clumsy (yes - Wagner!).

Mmmm.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 22, 2017)

There's a lot that doesn't make sense on reflection.
The film feels like an Alien movie made by a committee or focus group, which doesn't do it any favours.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 22, 2017)

Another point that infuruated me - the POV of the Alien, introduced in the latter part of the film. This is something used within the 'franchise' in the video game world (I'm thinking of the link to 'Predator' here). No. No. No!


----------



## Orang Utan (May 22, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Another point that infuruated me - the POV of the Alien, introduced in the latter part of the film. This is something used within the 'franchise' in the video game world (I'm thinking of the link to 'Predator' here). No. No. No!


It was used in the third film. I liked the third one and don't get why it has such a bad reputation


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> It was used in the third film. I liked the third one and don't get why it has such a bad reputation



Yes, now you have reminded me, it was!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 23, 2017)

4 was ok. It had sexy winnona Rider in it and that bit where ripley finds the previous 7 fucked up versions of her in the tanks, all twisted abominations. IIRC this is dealt with via flamethrower.

oh and the pirates are cool


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> 4 was ok. It had sexy winnona Rider in it and that bit where ripley finds the previous 7 fucked up versions of her in the tanks, all twisted abominations. IIRC this is dealt with via flamethrower.
> 
> oh and the pirates are cool



I really, really struggled with this one - although the Aliens underwater looked great. 3 was the perfect point to stop that particular story arc (Ripley's).


----------



## DotCommunist (May 23, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I really, really struggled with this one - although the Aliens underwater looked great. 3 was the perfect point to stop that particular story arc (Ripley's).


it was more a collection of cool scenes than a brilliant alien film for me. I'm just remembering how the 'male' alien dies by getting its guts sucked out through a hole in the ship.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 23, 2017)

I knew Alex Jones was bonkers, but oh wow:
Everything Alex Jones Got Right (and Wrong) About ‘Alien: Covenant’


----------



## belboid (May 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> it was more a collection of cool scenes than a brilliant alien film for me. I'm just remembering how the 'male' alien dies by getting its guts sucked out through a hole in the ship.


It suffered from just not being as good as the previous two, and we hadn't been disappointed by the sequels yet. Some nice ideas, even if the AIDS theme was underplayed in the final version, but, as you say, mostly just a few (a fair few) memorable scenes.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 23, 2017)

belboid said:


> It suffered from just not being as good as the previous two, and we hadn't been disappointed by the sequels yet. Some nice ideas, even if the AIDS theme was underplayed in the final version, but, as you say, mostly just a few (a fair few) memorable scenes.


ah I'm on about 4. 3 I never managed more than one watch and probably only because pete postlethwaite. I do remember appreciating the claustrophobic/dark feel of it that harked back to 1


----------



## belboid (May 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> ah I'm on about 4. 3 I never managed more than one watch and probably only because pete postlethwaite. I do remember appreciating the claustrophobic/dark feel of it that harked back to 1


Oh, well, four is doubleplus just some cool scenes and a sexy Winny. I'm sure it had a plot, but...


----------



## kabbes (May 24, 2017)

3 was awful because it destroyed the whole point of Aliens before it even hit its opening credits.  All that emotional investment we had made in the saving of Newt just thrown in the bin like it didn't matter.

After that, whatever it plotwise did was irrelevant.  It remains one of my all time most hated films.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 24, 2017)

kabbes said:


> 3 was awful because it destroyed the whole point of Aliens before it even hit its opening credits.  All that emotional investment we had made in the saving of Newt just thrown in the bin like it didn't matter.
> 
> After that, whatever it plotwise did was irrelevant.  It remains one of my all time most hated films.



I don't agree, in some ways I thought it was a brave and bold step to kill the two characters, although I fully understand why it might have been upsetting to those who invested in the two characters. In anything this retained the darkness of the first film, the bleakness, the emotional tone. It was tragic and heroic, and for me is probably the best of the series depite the flaws.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 24, 2017)

I can't even remember that bit. I just liked the claustrophobia, the English luvvie spotting, and the badass alien fighting


----------



## kabbes (May 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I don't agree, in some ways I thought it was a brave and bold step to kill the two characters, although I fully understand why it might have been upsetting to those who invested in the two characters. In anything this retained the darkness of the first film, the bleakness, the emotional tone. It was tragic and heroic, and for me is probably the best of the series depite the flaws.


This is just poor justification.  There is no way a story-teller would set out to create an entire narrative framework out of the desperate survival of a child and then just cut to the next scene with a "now she's dead lol".  It was an horrific misstep.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 24, 2017)

kabbes said:


> This is just poor justification.  There is no way a story-teller would set out to create an entire narrative framework out of the desperate survival of a child and then just cut to the next scene with a "now she's dead lol".  It was an horrific misstep.


in your opinion. i couldn't give a shit.


----------



## kabbes (May 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> in your opinion. i couldn't give a shit.


Then you have forfeited your right to comment on narrative ever again.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 24, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Then you have forfeited your right to comment on narrative ever again.


I don't see how it matters. It's a new film. It needed to concentrate on Ripley and the prisoners and an annoying little kid would have just got in the way


----------



## kabbes (May 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I don't see how it matters. It's a new film. It needed to concentrate on Ripley and the prisoners and an annoying little kid would have just got in the way


I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 24, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago.


I don't understand why you're so bothered about a fictional character being killed off for convenience' sake


----------



## kabbes (May 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I don't understand why you're so bothered about a fictional character being killed off for convenience' sake


Because it shows a lack of respect for their own story and for my investment in that story.  If they can't be bothered about their fictional characters, why should I?  It's so undermining of everything that fiction sets out to do.

Basically, you're saying that characters are nothing but meaningless ciphers.  So then what's the point in any of it?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 24, 2017)

kabbes said:


> It was an horrific misstep.


how can anyone take you seriously as a critic after this bungle of a sentence?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 24, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Because it shows a lack of respect for their own story and for my investment in that story.  If they can't be bothered about their fictional characters, why should I?  It's so undermining of everything that fiction sets out to do.
> 
> Basically, you're saying that characters are nothing but meaningless ciphers.  So then what's the point in any of it?


but that story was over at the end of Aliens. this is a new story.


----------



## kabbes (May 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> but that story was over at the end of Aliens. this is a new story.


It's not a new story if it continues the story of the same characters.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 24, 2017)

kabbes said:


> It's not a new story if it continues the story of the same characters.




yeh cos people only have one story 

pisspoor, even for you.


----------



## The Boy (May 24, 2017)

Saw it today at the pictures.  The guy I was with knew the woman serving us so we got free tickets.  I still feel like I was ripped off.

I mean, it was better than Prometheus IMO, but that isn't saying much.  And it felt like it *could* have been so much  better, which somehow makes it worse.


----------



## seventh bullet (May 25, 2017)

Just got back.



Spoiler



I wished we had got to see more stunning scenes of the Engineer city, with the petrified remains of its former inhabitants. The moonlit journey to it, the flashback of David's arrival and his act of genocide, and the crouching, clicking thing that follows the crew members there after the storm, all fleeting images that didn't cause me disappointment in having paid to see them on a large screen.

Fassbender was the best thing in it, as his David character wasn't merely forgettable, stoopid fodder for the beasties.

Not as bad as some have said. It could've been much better though, and the speed of the action (egg to proto-xenomorph in a few moments for example) made it seem like an Alien best of album being played with regard to the action, but it was still thrilling watching the first encounter with the creatures spawned from the infected crew, all erratic laser sights, whipping tails and grasping claws.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 25, 2017)

kabbes said:


> This is just poor justification.  There is no way a story-teller would set out to create an entire narrative framework out of the desperate survival of a child and then just cut to the next scene with a "now she's dead lol".  It was an horrific misstep.



I'm not so sure - my understanding (not based on reading the books or watching the series) is that in 'Game Of Thrones' characters are killed off quickly. I don't think Alien 3 just stated 'she's dead' - there was the scene in the mortuary in which Ripley is clearly distressed at the fact of having to view Newt;s body, whilst trying to address the issue of 'contagion'. This is a scene in which the full weight of 'Aliens' is present, as Ripley has to watch over the dissection of the girl she saved. It is powerful, emotionally and visually, whilst also stressing the nihilistic nature of her death. In many ways Alien 3 is the perfect hymn to non-teleological secularism - delivered by way of musical and visual cues from Catholicism.


----------



## kabbes (May 25, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I'm not so sure - my understanding (not based on reading the books or watching the series) is that in 'Game Of Thrones' characters are killed off quickly. I don't think Alien 3 just stated 'she's dead' - there was the scene in the mortuary in which Ripley is clearly distressed at the fact of having to view Newt;s body, whilst trying to address the issue of 'contagion'. This is a scene in which the full weight of 'Aliens' is present, as Ripley has to watch over the dissection of the girl she saved. It is powerful, emotionally and visually, whilst also stressing the nihilistic nature of her death. In many ways Alien 3 is the perfect hymn to non-teleological secularism - delivered by way of musical and visual cues from Catholicism.


Nice try.




But no.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 25, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Nice try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Curious. Do tell why?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 25, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Nice try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why Newt And Hicks Had To Die In ALIEN 3


----------



## Orang Utan (May 25, 2017)

BTW, apparently this gargoyle is to be found in 13th Paisley Abbey, but relax, this one was put in in the 90s:


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 25, 2017)

kabbes said:


> This is just poor justification.  There is no way a story-teller would set out to create an entire narrative framework out of the desperate survival of a child and then just cut to the next scene with a "now she's dead lol".  It was an horrific misstep.



The original trilogy was about Ripley, not Newt. No reason why Ripley's arc needs to go somewhere predictable in the next movie, and the ending of Alien 3 might not have felt right if Newt was still in the picture.

There's no victory for Ripley after Alien either remember. She wakes up after however many centuries to find out everyone she ever knew is dead. The whole thing is a tragic arc, only resolved by Ripley's ultimate phyrric victory over her tormentor. 

What really sold the whole thing out was Alien Resurrection, which wasn't a completely terrible film on its own merits but which made Ripley's story arc meaningless and left her in limbo to wait for however many more sequels.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2017)

I think the whole newt death thing might have been better received had it not felt like such an obvious desire to clean-slate the thing for the new tale. Also, film cliche number 317: all men in prison are gagging to rape a woman except that one decent bloke


----------



## Beats & Pieces (May 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I think the whole newt death thing might have been better received had it not felt like such an obvious desire to clean-slate the thing for the new tale. Also, film cliche number 317: all men in prison are gagging to rape a woman except that one decent bloke



The one decent black guy?

Indeed.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 16, 2017)

Saw this film recently. So David created the classic xenomorphs we know and love? In that case I'd like to know how they ended up on board a crashed Engineer ship, maybe we'll find that out in the sequel.

Visually this film is very impressive. The Engineer city with all the corpses especially.

Lots of tension - I couldn't help but imagine how utterly fucked it would feel if your only ride off a strange planet got blown up. Kept wondering how anyone would make it. As it turned out, nobody did.

One thing that did bother me was that apparently the crew of the _Covenant_ had been taking large doses of stupid pills. All the classic horror movie cliches appeared to be in force - splitting up, getting distracted, and worst of all, _following a crazy robot who's on speaking terms with killer aliens down into a dark cellar to take a *reeeeeaaaally* close look at some egg-like sacs!_


----------



## cybershot (Jul 16, 2017)

The one (well few)  bits of Covenant that really confused the fuck out of me.

A) They mention Shaw was on the doomed Prometheus mission. Did no one go back out there to find what happened? Considering they would have found lots of dead people, a crashed engineer ship and all other sort of 'shit'
B) Would you not think it odd that a planet that meets your needs for terraforming ws not detected, and that, as luck would have it, a distress signal is already being sent from it, which should surely already raise your eyebrows that this planet, probably isn't going to be a good choice for terraforming
C) The explore the crashed engineer ship and find Shaw's tags, yet later on in the film it shows the vessel David and Shaw are on arriving safely and docking, so erm, when did it crash!!
D) How the fuck did the sensors not detect some man made area of the planet with statues and sculptures and shit

Other than that, it was aright, it's an Alien film, you know what you're going to get by now and anyone expecting anything more is just fooling themselves.


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## cybershot (Jul 16, 2017)

RE: Alien 3 in this thread, I assume people have seen the assembly cut, it's almost a completely different film!

Spoilers if you can't be arsed to watch it: Alien 3 Assembly Cut


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## seventh bullet (Jul 16, 2017)

Spoiler



I think Shaw tried to flee from David after he went genocidal (he later revealed to Daniels that he had sinister designs on her wrt his experiments) but crashed the ship in the process.  The flashback scene showing their arrival happens when David looks out on the remains of the city's former inhabitants.  He lied to the Covenant crew about the black goo accidentally being released on the huge crowd that had gathered to greet them.


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## Beats & Pieces (Aug 7, 2017)

Mmmmm.


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## nuffsaid (Sep 4, 2017)

Finally got to see this. Was greatly disappointed, while I agree with many on here that Prometheus wasn't great I did like the idea of the Engineers and the fact they wanted to eradicate us. So, for me, Prometheus was good in opening up a whole new area of story about existence and origins, I liked it for what it promised next, but Alien Covenant did not live up to that promise. 

Covenant seemed just to re-hash old ideas as if someone had told Ripley, 'dude, people don't want deep, they want action, give them aliens exploding out of people, face-huggers, a weak captain and a strong female second in command'.

There were so many re-hashes it was embarrassing, the android was bad again, a chase through the spaceship while doors are closed behind, a fight on a platform with an alien v strong female character, face-huggers, eggs, and aliens exploding out of people. There was nothing of the Engineers and a deeper realisation of why they hated mankind so much, the flashback made them seem inferior when they were obviously our creators from Prometheus, that seemed really disjointed. Disappointed - reminded me of how 'The Force Awakens' was just a re-hash of what worked best for Star Wars. It didn't take on any of the answers left behind by Prometheus but reverted to the Alien slasher status-quo.


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## Rosemary Jest (Sep 4, 2017)

It was shit, the shittest film I've ever seen at the Imax, and that includes all the Hobbits, the two new star wars films and the BFG.

Its like what terminator 3/4/5 are to the originar two. Just go back and watch the first Alien film and marvel in the atmosphere. The 'spook'. There just isnt any feeling in the new one and that's without considering the plot holes and that.

Prometheus had its faults, but it's great in comparison. It had some sense of wonder at least.


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## binka (Sep 6, 2017)

It's all been said already but fucking hell when everyone who wanders off has ended up dead now's probably a good time to stay together. "Hmm seems like our group has thinned out a bit, I'll just nip out for a look around on my own - if I'm not back in 15 minutes make sure you send 1 person to come and look for me"

Plus the nonchalant attitude to any potential biohazards when visiting an unknown alien planet. 

I did like David and Walter but both films feel like such a missed opportunity


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## passenger (Apr 15, 2018)

Why did i read this thread, just into the first 20 mins looks great, sounds shit


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## Johnny Vodka (Apr 15, 2018)

I watched it on NOW TV the other night.  I (surprisingly) loved Prometheus but this was just okay.  They should have spent more time with earlier versions of the Alien.  As soon as it becomes the actual Alien, what's the point?  Been done before.  Pretty certain any subsequent films in the series will be completely redundant.


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## Rosemary Jest (Apr 15, 2018)

It's total turd, I have no desire to see it again, but I'm tempted to rewatch Alien vs Predator 1 and 2, that's how terrible it is.


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## Johnny Vodka (Apr 15, 2018)

Rosemary Jest said:


> It's total turd, I have no desire to see it again, but I'm tempted to rewatch Alien vs Predator 1 and 2, that's how terrible it is.



Nah, it was okay for a bit.  I liked the different ways the first couple of aliens burst out of people.


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## cybershot (Apr 16, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I watched it on NOW TV the other night.  I (surprisingly) loved Prometheus but this was just okay.  They should have spent more time with earlier versions of the Alien.  As soon as it becomes the actual Alien, what's the point?  Been done before.  Pretty certain any subsequent films in the series will be completely redundant.



It also goes from facehugger, to fully grown alien in a considerable small amount of time.


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## Chilli.s (Apr 16, 2018)

The only Alien movie that I've not rushed to see. Still not motivated.


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## Almor (Jul 30, 2018)

Just watched this, wish I'd just read a synopsis.

I only watched it to see a sequel to Prometheus which was pretty bad but left me wondering.
All I really found out was that it's possible to make a worse Alien film



Spoiler: RANT, and breath



Up to entering orbit I didn't think it was that bad, but immediately sending a landing craft down through a storm that they knew would risk damaging the craft and likely make communication difficult?
I know the film was already long and fuck knows I didn't want them to drag it out any longer but 30 seconds of in orbit, 'we've been monitoring the storm for days and it's not getting any better, we need to take the chance' dialog would have killed them?
Captain tells Faris to lock the lander doors while they're gone, she agrees, and then spends the entire time she's alone outside with the fucking door open and unmonitored? Having a staticy video chat, could you not just have switched to audio?
People get sick on a strange world and pretend they're OK? There's no exploring an unknown planet protocol to notify medical immediately of sickness to give the best chance of dealing with it?
This was the home world of the creators of the alien ship from the end of Prometheus and the virus, and they don't have any planetary defence protocols, or ability to defend themselves from the virus, all flocking to their deaths?
Let's risk 2000 colonists to have a chat with downed crew lol
Captain follows android into a hive, even if you didn't recognise it, you'd be a bit wtf after you've just made the android angry shooting an alien that's  killed one of your crew and seen how the android's been playing with killer alien creatures?
The David/Walter switch was achingly obvious
Surely the ship wide alarm would be able to shut off music and showers to ensure crew are notified in emergencies?


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## Steel Icarus (Jul 30, 2018)

Watched about an hour. Turned it off.


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## cybershot (Jul 30, 2018)

Almor said:


> Just watched this, wish I'd just read a synopsis.
> 
> I only watched it to see a sequel to Prometheus which was pretty bad but left me wondering.
> All I really found out was that it's possible to make a worse Alien film
> ...



Maybe IQ's had dropped sharply before the Nostromo itself set off with Special Order 937.


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## Santino (Jul 30, 2018)

I can't really remember anything about the film except that is was rubbish. When did Ridley Scott last make a good film?


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## Rosemary Jest (Jul 30, 2018)

Almor said:


> Just watched this, wish I'd just read a synopsis.
> 
> I only watched it to see a sequel to Prometheus which was pretty bad but left me wondering.
> All I really found out was that it's possible to make a worse Alien film
> ...



It really is a film I will probably never watch again. I've even watched Alien vs Predator 1 and 2 a few times, that's how bad it is.

Even the IMAX couldn't save it.


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## sleaterkinney (Jul 30, 2018)

Almor said:


> All I really found out was that it's possible to make a worse Alien film


I have yet to watch alien vs predator requiem.


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## cybershot (Jul 30, 2018)

.


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## cybershot (Jul 30, 2018)

Santino said:


> I can't really remember anything about the film except that is was rubbish. When did Ridley Scott last make a good film?



The Martian?


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## Santino (Jul 30, 2018)

cybershot said:


> The Martian?


Did he make another film that year?


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## Steel Icarus (Jul 30, 2018)

Santino said:


> I can't really remember anything about the film except that is was rubbish. When did Ridley Scott last make a good film?


2007 (American Gangster).


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## Santino (Jul 30, 2018)

Keep going.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 30, 2018)

S☼I said:


> 2007 (American Gangster).



That wasn't great by a long shot. Looked lovely, but wasn't great.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 30, 2018)

I liked All the Money in the World


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## Rosemary Jest (Jul 30, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> I have yet to watch alien vs predator requiem.



It's better than Covenant. Though it is still shit.


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## Almor (Jul 30, 2018)

Rosemary Jest said:


> It really is a film I will probably never watch again. I've even watched Alien vs Predator 1 and 2 a few times, that's how bad it is.
> 
> Even the IMAX couldn't save it.


 


sleaterkinney said:


> I have yet to watch alien vs predator requiem.


 
Yeah, I've been avoiding any alien vs predator after the first one wasn't that interesting


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