# The new landlord and a tenant on housing benefit



## Quartz (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm having to rent out my house and the agent has a prospective tenant. All good, but the prospective tenant - a woman with children - is on housing benefit. The problem I have with HB is that I'm ignorant about it. So I'm hoping that Urbanites can clue me in.

The prospective tenant has two guarantors, which is very helpful. But they're asking for a year's tenancy rather than the standard 6 month assured shorthold, which seems a bit of a red flag. Advice most gratefully received.


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## weepiper (Oct 20, 2011)

I'm a woman with children on housing benefit and I've always paid my rent, on time, by direct debit, first of the month. Neither have I trashed the flat or shat in the hallways. HTH.


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## Thora (Oct 20, 2011)

Why would a year's tenancy be a red flag


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## 5t3IIa (Oct 20, 2011)

What's bad about wanting a year? I wouldn't  want to move in a few months if I had kiddies 

Edit: or ndeed with no kiddies


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Why is asking for a year a 'red flag'. It's understandable, isn't it, for a woman with children to want a bit of security. Offer her three years.

tbh, the 'standard' six months is an ongoing disgrace in British housing. Really shit for a person with a family to have such a level of insecurity.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

If you're worried she's going to scam you for rent, you could ask that Housing pay it direct to you rather than to her to then pay to you?

Can't see why she'd want to do that though and risk getting kicked out when she's got kids in tow


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## 5t3IIa (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Why is asking for a year a 'red flag'. It's understandable, isn't it, for a woman with children to want a bit of security. Offer her three years.
> 
> tbh, the 'standard' six months is an ongoing disgrace in British housing. Really shit for a person with a family to have such a level of insecurity.



I saw a doc about evil landlords and the high turnover from shorthold tenants and upping the rent (housing Ben) everytime is a common example of cuntitude.


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## sheothebudworths (Oct 20, 2011)

weepiper said:


> I'm a woman with children on housing benefit and I've always paid my rent, on time, by direct debit, first of the month. Neither have I trashed the flat or shat in the hallways. HTH.



Likewise (although I pay half way through the month, as arranged   ).

Woman with children quite likely wants to be reassured that she's not going to be turfed out after six months (moving is expensive, stressful and fucking hard work when you have shit loads of kids stuff to haul along with you too). Is it that she's actually wanting to know whether it's a long term let (...._IS IT_)?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

I don't really get that. Why would someone on hb be more likely to scam the rent than someone not on hb?

I don't know the detail but there are - disgracefully - insurance policies that specify no hb, which is why a lot of landlords won't take people on benefit. As long as you don't have that, there is no reason whatever not to take someone on benefits beyond prejudice.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't really get that. Why would someone on hb be more likely to scam the rent than someone not on hb?



They're not, but I'm wondering if that's what some landlords think and why they specify no HB? 

Also, considering the way people on benefits are portrayed, it's hardly surprising people think they're all up to no good


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## Quartz (Oct 20, 2011)

Thora said:


> Why would a year's tenancy be a red flag



Because it's something other than the standard. Remember that I am new at this, so anything that isn't standard is going to make my antennae twitch.




			
				littlebabyjesus said:
			
		

> I don't really get that. Why would someone on hb be more likely to scam the rent than someone not on hb?



I don't believe they are, but an issue is what if housing benefit stops? Let's face it, this government is trying to save money, but that's a rant for another thread.

Would it be OTT to ask for a deposit from the guarantors?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

What if a tenant with a job loses their job? tbh a person with kids is not likely to lose her housing benefit.


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## Greebo (Oct 20, 2011)

Quartz said:


> Because it's something other than the standard. Remember that I am new at this, so anything that isn't standard is going to make my antennae twitch.
> 
> I don't believe they are, but an issue is what if housing benefit stops? Let's face it, this government is trying to save money, but that's a rant for another thread.<snip>


And what if a (hypothetical) currently high-earning tenant suddenly becomes too ill to work and has to claim benefit?  Nothing in life is certain apart from death (and maybe taxes)  IMHO you worry too much about the wrong things.


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## lighterthief (Oct 20, 2011)

IIRC when we had to let our flat out in London our mortgage company stipulated no benefits, no students, so watch out for that if you have mortgage.

It's not a palatable stance, but I could well believe that people on benefits are perhaps more likely to have trouble paying rent regularly than those on a regular income, hence the restrictions, but it's a shame for those on benefits who are able and willing to manage their financial affairs sensibly.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> IIRC when we had to let our flat out in London our mortgage company stipulated no benefits, no students, so watch out for that if you have mortgage.


This is an absolute fucking disgrace, really. I knew there was something like that. tbh I'd be sorely tempted to say fuck the mortgage company and do it anyway. How would they find out?


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## weepiper (Oct 20, 2011)

No blacks, dogs or Irish.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> IIRC when we had to let our flat out in London our mortgage company stipulated no benefits, no students, so watch out for that if you have mortgage.
> 
> It's not a palatable stance, but I could well believe that people on benefits are perhaps more likely to have trouble paying rent regularly than those on a regular income, hence the restrictions, but it's a shame for those on benefits who are able and willing to manage their financial affairs sensibly.


 
why?  Surely they're going to be in work and paying rent or out of work and HB paid for them or working *and *having HB paid as they're on a low wage?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

It should be illegal to discriminate against people on benefits like that. Simply illegal.


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## Greebo (Oct 20, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> IIRC when we had to let our flat out in London our mortgage company stipulated no benefits, no students, so watch out for that if you have mortgage.
> 
> It's not a palatable stance, but I could well believe that people on benefits are perhaps more likely to have trouble paying rent regularly than those on a regular income, hence the restrictions, but it's a shame for those on benefits who are able and willing to manage their financial affairs sensibly.


You don't get it, do you?  A landlord can ask any tenant who's on HB (or about to claim HB) *to make the Housing benefit paid directly to the landlord, without going through the tenant's purse/wallet/account at all.*


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## Quartz (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> tbh a person with kids is not likely to lose her housing benefit.



Perhaps *weepiper* would like to comment on that? I was just reading her recent travails.



			
				lighterthief said:
			
		

> IIRC when we had to let our flat out in London our mortgage company stipulated no benefits, no students, so watch out for that if you have mortgage.



Good point. Very good point, in fact.


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## marty21 (Oct 20, 2011)

weepiper said:


> I'm a woman with children on housing benefit and I've always paid my rent, on time, by direct debit, first of the month. Neither have I trashed the flat or shat in the hallways. HTH.


you are a disgrace


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## weepiper (Oct 20, 2011)

Quartz said:


> Perhaps *weepiper* would like to comment on that? I was just reading her recent travails.



Despite my well-known hassles with HB I have never once failed to pay my rent on time.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Greebo said:


> You don't get it, do you? A landlord can ask any tenant who's on HB (or about to claim HB) *to make the Housing benefit paid directly to the landlord, without going through the tenant's purse/wallet/account at all.*



When I've been on hb in the past, I've refused to allow this. I far preferred being left with the power to withhold rent if repairs weren't done, which I always did. Used to get moaned at for it, but if the landlord didn't do repairs when I asked them to, I would get someone in and deduct it from the rent. Too many bastard landlords out there who basically see your rent as free money.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

Greebo said:


> You don't get it, do you? A landlord can ask any tenant who's on HB (or about to claim HB) *to make the Housing benefit paid directly to the landlord, without going through the tenant's purse/wallet/account at all.*



I said that way up there, I'm really not sure what Quartz's problem is


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> When I've been on hb in the past, I've refused to allow this. I far preferred being left with the power to withhold rent if repairs weren't done, which I always did. Used to get moaned at for it, but if the landlord didn't do repairs when I asked them to, I would get someone in and deduct it from the rent. Too many bastard landlords out there who basically see your rent as free money.



Understandable, but then there are people who just can't be trusted or can't trust themselves with money and end up spending it.  I always get mine paid direct to the landlord so I'm not tempted


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## Quartz (Oct 20, 2011)

weepiper said:


> Despite my well-known hassles with HB I have never once failed to pay my rent on time.



Yes, but that hasn't stopped the HB people from trying to shaft you, has it? I am new at this and am a naturally cautious sort, so I ask questions, and post threads, like this one.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Understandable, but then there are people who just can't be trusted or can't trust themselves with money and end up spending it. I always get mine paid direct to the landlord so I'm not tempted


That is understandable too.  One less thing to worry about.


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## weepiper (Oct 20, 2011)

Quartz said:


> Yes, but that hasn't stopped the HB people from trying to shaft you, has it? I am new at this and am a naturally cautious sort, so I ask questions, and post threads, like this one.



My point is that HB shafting _me_ has not impacted upon my landlord in any way.


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## Greebo (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> When I've been on hb in the past, I've refused to allow this. I far preferred being left with the power to withhold rent if repairs weren't done, which I always did. Used to get moaned at for it, but if the landlord didn't do repairs when I asked them to, I would get someone in and deduct it from the rent. Too many bastard landlords out there who basically see your rent as free money.


Fair enough, but somewhere along the line, somebody has to be the first to take the risk and trust somebody to not take the piss.    Some landlords   (gods know I could name a few) have taken the piss in the past, but so have some tenants.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

In fact, if my experience with HB is anything to go by, they're likely to still be paying you rent *after *she's gone and then looking to you to repay them!


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Greebo said:


> Fair enough, but somewhere along the line, somebody has to be the first to take the risk and trust somebody to not take the piss. Some landlords (gods know I could name a few) have taken the piss in the past, but so have some tenants.



No, I genuinely don't think it works like that. It's not a question of trusting your landlord. It is a question of ensuring that mechanisms are in place to make him/her fulfil his/her side of the deal. Trust doesn't enter into it.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> In fact, if my experience with HB is anything to go by, they're likely to still be paying you rent *after *she's gone *and* *then looking to you to repay them*!



Or not, as happened to me once!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Or not, as happened to me once!



or that!


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> or that!


Which is where not having it paid to the landlord makes all the difference!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Which is where not having it paid to the landlord makes all the difference!





Didn't they ask for it back?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Nope.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nope.



When they overpaid my landlord £800 they were pretty sharpish (albeit £800 later) in demanding it back


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## Kidda (Oct 20, 2011)

far to many landlords are complete knobs about people on HB.

Go on break the cycle.

Get HB to pay directly to you if your that worried. Though to be fair, whatever tenants you have you will never be certain where their money is coming from and neither should you need to know. Treat her with the respect and consideration any tenant deserves. At least she was honest, many people are forced to lie about their benefits status because of the lack of affordable housing.

I really don't understand what your issue is?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> When they overpaid my landlord £800 they were pretty sharpish (albeit £800 later) in demanding it back


I kept it to one side for a couple of months. Then I spent it. About £1000 irrc. Came in very handy!


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## Quartz (Oct 20, 2011)

Kidda said:


> I really don't understand what your issue is?



Ignorance - in the proper sense.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I kept it to one side for a couple of months. Then I spent it. About £1000 irrc. Came in very handy!


 
*calls the dole scum hotline*


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## Kidda (Oct 20, 2011)

Quartz said:


> Ignorance - in the proper sense.



Why don't you meet the woman and have a chat. Make your choices based on that as you would a normal tenant. 
HB or no HB is irrelevant.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Quartz said:


> Ignorance - in the proper sense.



This is fair enough. And you've been very honest and upfront about it. But...



Kidda said:


> Why don't you meet the woman and have a chat. Make your choices based on that as you would a normal tenant.
> HB or no HB is irrelevant.



This is the right answer.


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## scifisam (Oct 20, 2011)

Check with your insurance company and mortgage company, then, if they allow you to, accept her as a tenant. A woman on HB with kids - and with guarantors - is likely to be an excellent tenant in terms of regular rent payment, not leaving suddenly, and not having loud parties.



Kidda said:


> Why don't you meet the woman and have a chat. Make your choices based on that as you would a normal tenant.
> HB or no HB is irrelevant.



I think he's too far away for that to be feasible, hence asking questions here.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 20, 2011)

scifisam said:


> is likely to be an excellent tenant in terms of regular rent payment, not leaving suddenly, *and not having loud parties.*



although she could have screaming babies instead


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## Quartz (Oct 20, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I think he's too far away for that to be feasible, hence asking questions here.



Correct. About 450 miles away.


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## lighterthief (Oct 21, 2011)

Greebo said:


> You don't get it, do you?  A landlord can ask any tenant who's on HB (or about to claim HB) *to make the Housing benefit paid directly to the landlord, without going through the tenant's purse/wallet/account at all.*


This only works if an HB claim is made and paid promptly and accurately, two words I would hesitate to use when discussing benefit claims.


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## Fuchs66 (Oct 21, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Why is asking for a year a 'red flag'. It's understandable, isn't it, for a woman with children to want a bit of security. Offer her three years.
> 
> tbh, the 'standard' six months is an ongoing disgrace in British housing. Really shit for a person with a family to have such a level of insecurity.


6 Months? Shit I got 4 years assured tenancy at the place I rent in The Hague and that's just me and my GF, no kids.


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## Kidda (Oct 21, 2011)

Quartz said:


> Correct. About 450 miles away.



Phone call, skype, email, interwebs.


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## Pingu (Oct 21, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> If you're worried she's going to scam you for rent, you could ask that Housing pay it direct to you rather than to her to then pay to you?
> 
> Can't see why she'd want to do that though and risk getting kicked out when she's got kids in tow


 
dunno where i have heard this so i may be misremebering..

having the HB paid directly to you can cause issues if its later found out there has been an overpayment (e.g. the tennant told HB a porkie). As they can come to you for the refund. if its paid to the tennant then its up to them.

I uess I could google this but ..meh.

i wouldnt have any problems renting to someone on HB btw. once its all sorted out at least you know the money to cover the rent will be there each month


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## grit (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm really surprised HB isint paid directly to the landlord by the default. As already noted the year lease is not a red flag at all, even a year is too short term for my personal preference.


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## Dan U (Oct 21, 2011)

regarding the year thing.

i'm just about to enter in to a new agreement and i've asked for a years tenancy, with a 6 month break in case my financial circumstances change. it means at 6 months, i can give 2 months notice. The landlord can do the same.

might be a compromise?

fwiw as well, we have turned down places that only wanted to offer an absolute 6 month tenancy as we just didn't want the uncertainty.

also, some letting agents want to charge you each time you fart, so they will try and sting a tenant for an admin fee to renew the contract - no idea if they charge both ends

eta - check out your letting agent as well. a mate of mine has recently returned from 2.5 years travelling to find out his letting agent and tenant changed the terms of the lease to paying cash (at the tenants request to be fair) and the agent has done him over £5k and now he has to get debt collectors in.


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## zenie (Oct 21, 2011)

grit said:


> I'm really surprised HB isint paid directly to the landlord by the default. As already noted the year lease is not a red flag at all, even a year is too short term for my personal preference.



it used to be that way but there were problems with it I think.

Make sure your figures match up as HB is worked out weekly and paid every 4 weeks here, so although you get 13 payments a year, it might mean a bit of juggling with your mortgage payments.

Can't believe I'm giving a LL advice


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2011)

Dan U said:


> also, some letting agents want to charge you each time you fart, so they will try and sting a tenant for an admin fee to renew the contract - no idea if they charge both ends



I don't remember ever signing a second agreement. By law, once the period of the contract runs out, if you do not renew it, its terms continue on a rolling basis.


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## grit (Oct 21, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't remember ever signing a second agreement. By law, once the period of the contract runs out,* if you do not renew it, its terms continue on a rolling basis.*



Thats very interesting, got a link to back it up?


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## Dan U (Oct 21, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't remember ever signing a second agreement. By law, once the period of the contract runs out, if you do not renew it, its terms continue on a rolling basis.



i've had an agent try it on twice over the years. once a simple 'get fucked' worked

where i currently live we told them we were moving out as the landlady was selling the house and they just gave me back my deposit.
15 months later, we are finally moving out.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2011)

grit said:


> Thats very interesting, got a link to back it up?


From here



> In England and Wales, it's normal for the term to be six months. The tenancy will, unless a notice of termination is served, continue after the end of the fixed term. It's not strictly necessary to give the tenant a new fixed-term tenancy agreement.
> 
> When a tenancy continues after the end of a fixed term, it's generally referred to as a 'periodic tenancy', the period being monthly or weekly, depending on how rent is paid.
> 
> In Scotland, at the end of the fixed term, if no new rental agreement is entered into and no notices of termination have been served, the tenancy continues automatically for the same term as the original term of the tenancy (e.g. if the tenancy was for seven months, it continues for a further seven months).



The situation is better in Scotland, clearly. But the point is that both sides are still covered by the terms of the agreement after the end of the fixed term.


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## grit (Oct 21, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> From here
> 
> The situation is better in Scotland, clearly. But the point is that both sides are still covered by the terms of the agreement after the end of the fixed term.



Thanks I know our letting agency want to charge some stupid amount of money if we renew... dealing with letting agencies is by far the most stressful thing we have had to deal with when we moved to the UK.

In in Ireland you turn up, look at the place, shake hands give them deposit and first months rent and the job is done, nothing even to sign.


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## Quartz (Oct 21, 2011)

zenie said:


> Can't believe I'm giving a LL advice



I'd really rather sell - I need the money - but in the current market my house will not sell.
 I'm going to have to wait for a rising market.


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## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2011)

I rent out my flat through an agency. Prospective tenants (on set three, 1st set up after 6 months, 2nd set stayed for over 2 years then went travelling, on 3rd set who are lovely and have been in for a year so far) are offered a choice of 6 months or 12 months when they start the tenancy, 2 out of the 3 took 12 months. I myself moved to a new city and also took 12 months for my new place.

Don't understand why you think 12 month tenancy is such an issue - it's good as a landlord to know that you're secure for longer.


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## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2011)

The Scotland thing sounds like a default position. Normally once the tenancy finishes it continues on on a rolling basis, or a new tenancy is agreed. When the tenancy finished in my current place I was offered the choice of a new tenancy on the same basis or I could give two months notice at any point. I chose two months notice as my place of work is going through a lot of upheavals.


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## Quartz (Oct 22, 2011)

equationgirl said:


> Don't understand why you think 12 month tenancy is such an issue - it's good as a landlord to know that you're secure for longer.



I didn't know that it wasn't an issue. I just assumed that it would be the standard short-term assured tenancy.


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## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2011)

Quartz said:


> I didn't know that it wasn't an issue. I just assumed that it would be the standard short-term assured tenancy.


I prefer it myself - new tenants never move in the day after tenants move out so fewer breaks in the rent being paid.


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## pseudonarcissus (Oct 22, 2011)

If they turn out to be good, look after them. My tenants have been in my place 6 years. They now pay about 2/3 of the market rent. They paint the place now and again (I buy the paint), some things are looking a bit tatty, but it's fine. When they move out I will do the place up. I have put a little aside so I'm not going to be bitching about cleaning carpets and curtains, that stuff gets replaced. I rented in the USA and one year contracts are standard there, but it seems to be automatic that places are painted and recarpeted between tenants. They did, however increase the rent 5% every year on the assumption momentum would prevent you moving out.
If they don't pay the rent start proceedings 15 days after a missed payment. A tenet who won't leave would be a disaster. 
As mentioned above changing tenets means missed months of rent, commission to agents and having to pay the council tax and other bills.


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## Quartz (Oct 27, 2011)

I've given the go-ahead to the agent.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 27, 2011)

Quartz said:


> I've given the go-ahead to the agent.



Good, hopefully it'll be hassle-free


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## Badgers (Nov 7, 2011)

Just had this email from George Ellis Property Services which is worth reading.



> *Do you currently rent a one bedroom flat to an under 35 year old?*
> *
> *
> Bad news if you are a landlord renting to a tenant on local housing allowance. One of the key changes is that any single person now up to the age of 35 will only be able to get a shared room rent rate. The Government is stating if your tenant came from a hostel they will be exempt. This effectively means, if you have a tenant(s) under the age of 35 on LHA (or they lose their job and apply for local housing allowance) no Local Housing Authority nationwide will pay more than a room rate. You will only get £85.00 per week, a paltry amount, especially for London landlords.
> ...


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## Badgers (Nov 7, 2011)

Another one but attached PDF this time.



> Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Circular
> Department for Work and Pensions


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