# Jo Yeates body found in Failand, Bristol



## Geri (Dec 25, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12079050

The obvious assumption is that it's Joanna Yeates.

Her poor, poor parents. What a terrible Christmas for them.


----------



## kalidarkone (Dec 25, 2010)

Oh I just heard this on the news-so awful


----------



## Geri (Dec 25, 2010)

I suppose it's better that they found her quickly (assuming it is her) than to have the years of not knowing, like Melanie Hall's parents.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Dec 25, 2010)

Oh dear, what sad news


----------



## Gerry1time (Dec 25, 2010)

Oh fuck. That's horrible. Got a mate who lives in Failand, might give him a call.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 26, 2010)

I think the whole city's shocked by this awful event. Terrible.


----------



## Geri (Dec 26, 2010)

Assuming it is her, and that she was murdered (can't really think of any other scenario in which a woman's body is found at the side of the road) I hope they find whoever did it quickly, as it's very unsettling. When Nadine Hillier was murdered a few years back, I was too scared to go out at night.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 26, 2010)

They've confirmed it is her.  Sad news


----------



## Geri (Dec 26, 2010)

Just checked the BBC news site and it says police are "satisfied" that it's her body. No cause of death announced yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12080254


----------



## weltweit (Dec 26, 2010)

I had bad feelings from the first announcement that she was missing. 

Awful grisly story and it is not more awful for it being christmas, it would be awful at any time of year. 

Let's hope they catch the perpetrator quickly.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 27, 2010)

D'you reckon the bf did it? (or paid someone to) Nice how he was 'out of town' - I wonder what time his mum and dad go to bed...


----------



## Geri (Dec 27, 2010)

At the first press conference, which was when the story was in the local news only, I thought he looked a bit overly upset for someone who at that time had only been missing for a few days. He was in Sheffield until Sunday night, so I guess it depends on whether they can pinpoint the time of death. Her body was covered in snow, and we didn't have snow until the Friday night of the evening she was last seen or the following Tuesday. On the other hand, people living in the area say the body would have been noticed before Christmas Day if it had been there before as a lot of cars and pedestrians use that road, the inference being that she was somewhere else and then moved on Christmas morning when it would have been very quiet.

The weird thing is that she definitely got home from her night out, as opposed to being snatched on the way home, which is more common.

The Daily Mail are highlighting the similarities with the Melanie Hall murder.


----------



## madzone (Dec 27, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> D'you reckon the bf did it? (or paid someone to) Nice how he was 'out of town' - I wonder what time his mum and dad go to bed...


 
My mum said the same thing.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 27, 2010)

Have they found the pizza?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 27, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> D'you reckon the bf did it? (or paid someone to) Nice how he was 'out of town' - I wonder what time his mum and dad go to bed...


 
one assumes so, otherwise as there's like what 300 people going missing everyday, the one which is going to make the news is usually the one where they think they have a suspect and want to see them fuck up...


----------



## Geri (Dec 28, 2010)

So it's definitely a murder. The pizza thing is weird, and it makes me think it's unlikely that it was the boyfriend because why would he remove it from the flat? I do think it's someone she knows though.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 28, 2010)

And it seems it's not a forced entry . . . which probably also suggests someone she knew. I wonder if she and the killer met before she got home and then she either dropped a few bits off or the strangulation happened there . . .

Fwiw, I've seen the BBC News go through 4 different job descriptions in a kind of glamming up version of chinese whispers:

Gardner
Landscape Gardner
Landscapre Architect 
Architect (the latter by Sophie Rayworth on the 6.00pm news)


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 28, 2010)

Well she worked for BDP so it seems reasonable to call her some sort of architect.


----------



## Geri (Dec 28, 2010)

I've only heard her described as an architect or a landscape architect. I guess that means she designed gardens.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 28, 2010)

Grim .. is the right word.

I caught part of the police interview, it was clear they were keeping some details only the killer would know secret from the wider public. 

Grim.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 28, 2010)

Geri said:


> So it's definitely a murder. The pizza thing is weird, and it makes me think it's unlikely that it was the boyfriend because why would he remove it from the flat? I do think it's someone she knows though.


 
If his fingerprints got on the packaging as she fought him off?


----------



## Geri (Dec 28, 2010)

But why would he be bothered that his fingerprints are on the packaging of a pizza in his own flat?


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 28, 2010)

Because it would prove that he was there when he should have still been at his mums? Pizzas have dates on, it wouldn't need to be anything to do with CCTV.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 28, 2010)

The important piece of information not given is the time at which he is said to have left for or arrived at his parents.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 28, 2010)

I hate myself for speculating on this sort of thing, but I am struggling to think of any scenario where her keys, coat, purse, etc. were in the flat but just the victim and a pizza are absent makes any sort of sense. If you were in the flat and took care to remove a pizza, wouldn't you also think to look for, and remove, a receipt for the pizza.

Horrible, horrible case, of course. I hope the perpetrator is found soon.


----------



## ymu (Dec 28, 2010)

The only explanations I can think of for the pizza are:

1. The killer shared it with her and took the packaging away as part of cleaning up the flat.

2. The killer fancied a pizza and took it with him.

She must surely have been killed in the flat. If she'd gone out again with someone she knew, she would still have taken keys, mobile etc with her.

It does look a lot like the police are trying to flush out the boyfriend. Some of the comments from her parents seem to hint at that too. I find it quite odd that she'd been missing for two days before he contacted anyone - if that is the case, of course. They worked together and she went out drinking with people from work - surely he'd have rung mutual friends and/or her parents when he couldn't get hold of her on the phone whilst he was away?


----------



## Geri (Dec 28, 2010)

Surely the post mortem would have revealed if she had eaten the pizza?


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 28, 2010)

Just so heartwrenching to see her parents the other day when they did their initial news conference before her body was found - just devastating 





Withdrawn stupid 'gut reaction' comment, shouldn't have been said.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 28, 2010)

Yeah, the "it wasn't out of character for her to ignore my texts and calls for two days" is a bit werid also....


----------



## colacubes (Dec 28, 2010)

stephj said:


> I must admit I've been thinking exactly the same too, whilst they clearly seem to be ruling him out.
> 
> Just so heartwrenching to see her parents the other day when they did their initial news conference before her body was found - just devastating


 
The police have ruled him out and he is not a suspect apparently so they said on News 24 earlier.


----------



## ymu (Dec 28, 2010)

It would, yes. The police wouldn't necessarily reveal that information.


----------



## Geri (Dec 28, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Yeah, the "it wasn't out of character for her to ignore my texts and calls for two days" is a bit werid also....


 
The parents also said she didn't always answer texts or calls. Obviously the police have checked out his alibi but we are not privy to whether it stands up or not. It was his brother he went to stay with and by all accounts he was very cagey when the press approached him, but then again, who wouldn't be?


----------



## ymu (Dec 28, 2010)

Geri said:


> The parents also said she didn't always answer texts or calls. Obviously the police have checked out his alibi but we are not privy to whether it stands up or not. It was his brother he went to stay with and by all accounts he was very cagey when the press approached him, but then again, who wouldn't be?


 
I didn't know that, about her ignoring texts and calls. Fair dos. And yes - he's going to get tried by media regardless, so of course he's cagey.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 28, 2010)

Barking_Mad said:


> The important piece of information not given is the time at which he is said to have left for or arrived at his parents.


 
And if they had pizza....


----------



## Geri (Dec 28, 2010)

Killing her _and_ stealing the pizza - whoever did this is a double wrong 'un.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 28, 2010)

It was a _Waitrose_ pizza though - bet it was yummy.


----------



## ymu (Dec 28, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> It was a _Waitrose_ pizza though - bet it was yummy.


 
The pizza came from Tesco. Prolly shite.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 28, 2010)

What was she doing in Waitrose then? I'm all confused by this story now.....


----------



## ymu (Dec 28, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> What was she doing in Waitrose then? I'm all confused by this story now.....


 
She shopped at Waitrose, stopped off at Tesco for a pizza and then another shop for cider.


----------



## Geri (Dec 29, 2010)

Local police are saying that there is no evidence that other women in Bristol are at risk from her killer - how on earth can they say this if they have no idea who it is?


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 29, 2010)

They know who it is, blates.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 29, 2010)

Greg's mum says about Greg: "He's doing better than me at the moment. As far as I know he's OK, given these awful last few days." 

And do the police rule him out as a suspect? I've heard them rule out suspects before, normally they so "no he's not a suspect", but this time they said "No, he’s a witness in this investigation. There are a number of inquiries we are pursuing and at this stage, I am not prepared to speculate whether there are any suspects or what those lines of inquiry might be."

Also, Jo's dad says the police aren't telling him shit, which again is unusual.

And he looks like a wrong'un from his face.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 29, 2010)

Before everyone tries and convicts her boyfriend!

"While the police have released images of Yeates in the supermarkets, they are holding back footage seized from the pub, which could show people who left at the same time – and who she was talking with."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/28/joanna-yeates-may-have-known-killer


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> D'you reckon the bf did it? (or paid someone to) Nice how he was 'out of town' - I wonder what time his mum and dad go to bed...


 


madzone said:


> My mum said the same thing.


 


stephj said:


> I must admit I've been thinking exactly the same too, whilst they clearly seem to be ruling him out.


such a cuntish thing to say on a public message board. i hate it when something like this happens. idiots pop up and give their ill-thought out theories on what happened when they know nothing. shame on you all!


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> They know who it is, blates.


 
you are not qualified to speculate


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 29, 2010)

You takin the piss?


----------



## kropotkin (Dec 29, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> such a cuntish thing to say on a public message board. i hate it when something like this happens. idiots pop up and give their ill-thought out theories on what happened when they know nothing. shame on you all!


 
I completely agree.


----------



## Thora (Dec 29, 2010)

Of course people will speculate though, whether in the pub or on a message board.  And when women are murdered it is usually the boyfriend.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2010)

wish they wouldn't speculate. it's pretty distasteful and doesn't help.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 29, 2010)

Thora said:


> Of course people will speculate though, whether in the pub or on a message board.  And when women are murdered it is usually the boyfriend.


 
And of course, they'll apologise if it turns out it wasn't him, won't they??


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 29, 2010)

I accept that OU. It was merely expressing a gut reaction that's all. We all do it from time to time on here to news stories where we are clearly not in receipt of the facts or details.


----------



## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)

the thing is, when gut feelings like this are expressed, they'll follow the boyfriend round for a long time, whether he did it or not. everyone going on about gut feelings and speculating is just going to prolong this. i know a couple of people who knew the girl and her boyfriend, so it's always going to be close to home for some people, even if it's just words on a mesage board.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 29, 2010)

Yeah, you're right.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 29, 2010)

One thing we can say for sure - her landlord is guilty of having the worst comb-over ever.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 29, 2010)

Thora said:


> Of course people will speculate though, whether in the pub or on a message board.  And when women are murdered it is usually the boyfriend.



Although I am completely guilty of being a hypocritical cunt as I did some general speculation, the difference between down the pub and on a message board is that these boards are well indexed by Google and anyone, including family members, are likely to come across it if they search for certain terms.

Anyway, erm, there seems to be some new leads and I have a funny feeling that this horrible case will be solved before too long.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 29, 2010)

Landlord tells police he saw Jo leave flat with two other people


----------



## Geri (Dec 29, 2010)

Hmmmm. The landlord said he thought it *might* have been Jo, and couldn't remember if the other people were men or women. His evidence needs to be a bit more convincing than that. 

I am also sure they will solve it soon, the pool of suspects can't be very wide and I don't think it was a stranger.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 29, 2010)

Geri said:


> ... I am also sure they will solve it soon, the pool of suspects can't be very wide and I don't think it was a stranger.


 
Why do you think it is not a stranger?


----------



## Geri (Dec 29, 2010)

weltweit said:


> Why do you think it is not a stranger?


 
Because 

a) she got home, as opposed to being abducted on the way home 
b) no sign of forced entry, which indicates that she probably knew the person and let them in
c) police saying other women are not at risk, which suggests to me that they have their suspicions about who did it 
d) what are the chances of a stranger knocking on her door on the very weekend her b/f was away (even if he had seen her go in he  wouldn't know there was nobody else at home)
e) Why would a stranger remove the body from the house and risk being seen by neighbours or caught with it in his car? He would just leave it in the house to be discovered, as opposed to a grass verge 3 miles away. He would have no connection with the house so it makes no odds to him where it's found.
f) Most people are murdered by people they know - stranger murders are relatively uncommon


Also g) (not so sure about this one) there doesn't appear to be any suggestion of rape/sexual assault (unless they are not releasing this info for any reason) so what would be a stranger's motive?

Oh, and if a stranger wanted to kill a woman in Bristol it would be much easier to drive through Easton/Eastville and get a woman who would willingly go with them to a deserted place. Knocking on doors in Clifton is not really a surefire way to find a victim without arousing suspicion.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 29, 2010)

Geri said:


> e) Why would a stranger remove the body from the house and risk being seen by neighbours or caught with it in his car? He would just leave it in the house to be discovered, as opposed to a grass verge 3 miles away. He would have no connection with the house so it makes no odds to him where it's found.



But why would someone she knew remove the body from the flat?



Geri said:


> Also g) (not so sure about this one) there doesn't appear to be any suggestion of rape/sexual assault (unless they are not releasing this info for any reason) so what would be a stranger's motive?



I notice that the police are just saying she was strangled, not with what she was strangled. 



Geri said:


> Oh, and if a stranger wanted to kill a woman in Bristol it would be much easier to drive through Easton/Eastville and get a woman who would willingly go with them to a deserted place. Knocking on doors in Clifton is not really a surefire way to find a victim without arousing suspicion.



Sure, I accept that. Why would they not go for the easy pickings.


----------



## Geri (Dec 29, 2010)

weltweit said:


> But why would someone she knew remove the body from the flat?


 
To remove as many ties with themselves as possible.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 29, 2010)

Geri said:


> To remove as many ties with themselves as possible.


 
So, they are incompetant, because they left her handbag and keys and other clobber which she would have taken with her normally.


----------



## Geri (Dec 29, 2010)

They may have just wanted to buy themselves some time - if it was the boyfriend (say) then clearly he would want to get rid of it before calling the police. If it was the landlord (say) then they would want to buy themselves some time, give themselves time to think about what to do next. I only use these as examples because I don't know who else she knew. 

I guess most killers are incompetent, if it's a spur of the moment thing and they are panicking.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 29, 2010)

Re: Strangulation.. the impression I got that it was by hand rather than ligature etc.... hence my thinking why the Police are cagey with some info...


----------



## weltweit (Dec 29, 2010)

AKA pseudonym said:


> Re: Strangulation.. the impression I got that it was by hand rather than ligature etc.... hence my thinking why the Police are cagey with some info...


 
Someone in the press asked the police what she had been strangled with when details of the autopsy were being released. The policeman noticeably repeated only that she had been strangled, he did not mention by hand or with a ligature or whatever. 

So I think, the only people who know how she was strangled are the police, and the killer.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 30, 2010)

Police have arrested a 65 year old man from an address at Canynge Road. May or may not be the person who suddenly remembered seeing 3 people leaving the flat - or maybe they weren;t.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12092600


----------



## big eejit (Dec 30, 2010)

Police now confirmed it is her landlord

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/30/joanna-yeates-police-arrest-landlord


----------



## ymu (Dec 30, 2010)

It is the landlord.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 30, 2010)

cue a string of posts where people say they had a funny feeling about the landlord when they saw him on the telly


----------



## mauvais (Dec 30, 2010)

I knew he was a wrongun when I saw him stealing paintings in Lovejoy.


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 30, 2010)

I had a funny feeling about the landlord when I saw him on the telly........


----------



## AverageJoe (Dec 30, 2010)

And he would have had keys as well


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

Well according to neighbours he was "a little bit eccentric" so it must be him.


----------



## Maggot (Dec 30, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> such a cuntish thing to say on a public message board. i hate it when something like this happens. idiots pop up and give their ill-thought out theories on what happened when they know nothing. shame on you all!


 
I agree, really distasteful stuff.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2010)

I have a distinct feeling I've encountered him briefly in the course of my work.

Doubtless I will find out after the holidays ...


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 30, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> such a cuntish thing to say on a public message board. i hate it when something like this happens. idiots pop up and give their ill-thought out theories on what happened when they know nothing. shame on you all!


 I agree,there's a huge thread on Digital Spy forum about this,full of idiots who seem to think they're experts just because they've seen an ep of the Bill


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 30, 2010)

He looks like a wrong 'un.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

Gingerman said:


> I agree,there's a huge thread on Digital Spy forum about this,full of idiots who seem to think they're experts just because they've seen an ep of the Bill


 
lol just saw that - they reckon he must be a serial killer as you don't start killing people at 65 if you've got property to lose.

he's got the hair TBF


----------



## MysteryGuest (Dec 30, 2010)

Interesting how BBC haven't said who it is - "a 65 year old man" - while Sky are merrily going on and on about him, including stuff about how he was acting a bit shifty yesterday, complete with repeated clip of him being shifty.


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 30, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> lol just saw that - they reckon he must be a serial killer as you don't start killing people at 65 if you've got property to lose.
> 
> he's got the hair TBF


 One cretin said he couldn't be the murderer because he sounded posh


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 30, 2010)

The BBC - like PA - always wait until someone official has confirmed the villain's identity, while other news sources are only worried about whether anyone will sue.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 30, 2010)

BBC bristol have said it's him all morning.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 30, 2010)

Really? Interesting. Perhaps BBC radio and online conventions are different because slander and libel laws are different.


----------



## mattie (Dec 30, 2010)

I appreciate it's a little bit insensitive, but 'Failand'


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

Significant comment by a neighbour here:




			
				bbc news said:
			
		

> "We chose the area of Clifton to live in because we thought it was safe."
> 
> Referring to Mr Jefferies, he said: "*We see him all the time on the road.*"



Case closed.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 30, 2010)

Nope, radio is slander. Perhaps BBC brizzle have found someone official who is happy to state that it was the landlord what dunnit, and for internal political reasons they're not prepared to share the source with their colleagues in London.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 30, 2010)

> the retired public school teacher



Case doubly closed.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2010)

So, the 65 year old landlord has been confirmed as the man arrested....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12092600

(I've edited thread title for clarity)


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 30, 2010)

He has the voice of a beast.


----------



## Thora (Dec 30, 2010)

I knew it all along!


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

Most fail comb-over ever. No wonder he went to Failand.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2010)

His car will be on CCTV all over the town, so I'm guessing that's what he's been arrested for.


----------



## machine cat (Dec 30, 2010)

editor said:


> His car will be on CCTV all over the town, so I'm guessing that's what he's been arrested for.


 
Trying to throw the police off the scent with his story about 3 people leaving the flat, after all this time was dodgy as well.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 30, 2010)

It's very likely that the perpetrator will have driven over Clifton Suspension Bridge to dispose of the body, which must be covered by a zillion CCTV cameras.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

Murderers don't often think rationally. Could have dropped her over the side of the gorge away from the cameras and would have easily looked like a suicide or accident.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 30, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> It's very likely that the perpetrator will have driven over Clifton Suspension Bridge to dispose of the body, which must be covered by a zillion CCTV cameras.


 
36 in fact.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2010)

Just because he has been arrested, does not mean that he did it. 

Just trying to stop the rush to judgement!


----------



## Kanda (Dec 30, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Murderers don't often think rationally. Could have dropped her over the side of the gorge away from the cameras and would have easily looked like a suicide or accident.


 
Not after strangling her.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> 36 in fact.



I was close then.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 30, 2010)

mauvais said:


> I knew he was a wrongun when I saw him stealing paintings in Lovejoy.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 30, 2010)

weltweit said:


> Just because he has been arrested, does not mean that he did it.


 
Or that the bf didn't!!!

[/typical urban]


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2010)

that photo makes him look guilty as sin.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2010)

I remember from one of the Hannibal films, "killers covet, they covet what they see"..


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 30, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> that photo makes him look guilty as sin.


 
Of crimes against style, perhaps.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 30, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Most fail comb-over ever. No wonder he went to Failand.


 
Both The Telegraph and Guardian are reporting he used to have blue hair. More details to follow.


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 30, 2010)

10/11 Charged by midnight.
5/1 Released by midnight.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 30, 2010)

From Gaurdian:



> CCTV footage shows her buying a pizza from a Tesco shop five minutes walk from her home at 8.40pm. Neither the pizza nor its packaging has been found, though the receipt for it was in her flat.



There's your motive right there. Greedy fucker.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 30, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> Both The Telegraph and Guardian are reporting he used to have blue hair. More details to follow.


 
Also reporting he worked to support the campaign of a local party in the elections - may not be unrelated!


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 30, 2010)

...



> Mr Jefferies was four years ago appointed the chairman of the Bath and Avon Prayer Book Society, which promotes the continued use of the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. He resigned four months later.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...people-night-disappearance.html#ixzz19atsCKfR


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> Both The Telegraph and Guardian are reporting he used to have blue hair. More details to follow.


 
Which confirms that I have met him.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 30, 2010)

Notice any similarity in wording?

Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...chitects-landlord-on-suspicion-of-murder.html
A former pupil, James Harris, wrote on a social networking site: "Jo Yeates's landlord was my English teacher at school 20 years ago. He was very flamboyant and had blue hair at the time."

Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hris-Jefferies-arrested-suspicion-murder.html
A former pupil, James Harris, wrote on a social networking site: ‘Jo Yeates’s..."


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 30, 2010)

Typical blue-rinse Tory.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 30, 2010)

gentlegreen said:


> Which confirms that I have met him.


 
Did he nick _your_ pizza, too?


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 30, 2010)

Actually what am I saying - you wouldn't have had a pizza.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2010)

.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2010)

.


----------



## MysteryGuest (Dec 30, 2010)

Cor - on Sky you can hear Louise on the BBC in the background, then turn over to BBC News and hear her voice direct.  Her voice definitely carries.  I think the Sky guy needs to speak up a bit tbh.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

That Tesco Finest pesto one is actually the nicest shop-bought pizza I've found.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 30, 2010)

Meanwhile, I notice that the Daily Mail focus on the really important details:

"The body of the 25-year-old ... three miles from her £200,000 flat in the upmarket area of Clifton, Bristol."

"The father of Jo Yeates ... At his £600,000 home in Ampfield, Hampshire"

writes the Daily Mail reporter from Northcliffe House, Derry Street in London's swanky Kensington district.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2010)

I can't imagine what this Christmas has been like for Jo's parents. I guess their Christmases are fucked forever now. It's desperately sad.

(Sorry I'm unable to join in with the jaunty pizza chat).


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 30, 2010)

(No worries, ed  - I'm just a cold, hard hearted bitch, obv)


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 30, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> That Tesco Finest pesto one is actually the nicest shop-bought pizza I've found.



You "found" it, did you? Not that you'd consider stealing one from a freshly strangled architect?


----------



## MysteryGuest (Dec 30, 2010)

sheothebudworths said:


> (No worries, ed  - I'm just a cold, hard hearted bitch, obv)


 

we knew that anyway tbf.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 30, 2010)

I really want a pizza now. Not _that _much, obviously. I'm going out to get one.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 30, 2010)

mauvais said:


> I really want a pizza now. Not _that _much, obviously. I'm going out to get one.


 


Watch your step!


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 30, 2010)

MysteryGuest said:


> we knew that anyway tbf.


 
Yes, well, there we go then.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 30, 2010)

The stuff about him being a serial killer seems unlikely to me, if it is the landlord. It's shit at not getting caught if it is - how many more could he have got away with?


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 30, 2010)

I was thinking he may have knocked on her door, invited her around to his as it "was Christmas" and she took the pizza and cider along.

I know it's idle speculation but it's the premeditated aspect that chills the blood.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> I was thinking he may have knocked on her door, invited her around to his as it "was Christmas" and she took the pizza and cider along.
> 
> I know it's idle speculation but it's the premeditated aspect that chills the blood.


 
Unless she was expecting him to return with her, she would have take her keys though, right?


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 30, 2010)

He had a flat in the same building didn't he - put it on a latch, pulled it to, or something


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> He had a flat in the same building didn't he - put it on a latch, pulled it to, or something


 
But why did he kill her... 

Why not just have a christmas drink and say goodnight?


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

weltweit said:


> But why did he kill her...
> 
> Why not just have a christmas drink and say goodnight?


 
Maybe she slagged off the Book of Common Prayer.


----------



## MysteryGuest (Dec 30, 2010)

mauvais said:


> I really want a pizza now. Not _that _much, obviously. I'm going out to get one.


 

don't forget to write clearly on a piece of paper I DO NOT NEED TO KILL ANYBODY IN ORDER TO GET PIZZA.  and take the paper with you!  just in case, like.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Maybe she slagged off the Book of Common Prayer.


 
Yes, I would find that motive enough !!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> I know it's idle speculation but it's the premeditated aspect that chills the blood.


 that's murder for you.


----------



## Gerry1time (Dec 30, 2010)

I've watched far too many episodes of Poirot this xmas to even begin to speculate who might have done it. Judging from that, it could have been any fucker, or the landlord could well yet turn out to be her.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2010)

I notice the Daily Fail and the Evening Post have deleted the comments ....


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 30, 2010)

Lib-dem party member and activist.


----------



## Diamond (Dec 30, 2010)

mauvais said:


> I knew he was a wrongun when I saw him stealing paintings in Lovejoy.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

Gerry1time said:


> the landlord could well yet turn out to be her.


 
Not very likely given his dress sense.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 30, 2010)

If it is him, he can be added to the glorious roster of wrong 'uns hailing from my part of the world.


----------



## Gerry1time (Dec 30, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Not very likely given his dress sense.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 30, 2010)

I have followed this story with interest and felt so very sorry for the victim's partner and family.  FWIW I thought that the media coverage of the parents visiting the verge where her body was found was incredibly insensitive and intrusive.  Did anyone really need to see that?  I can understand why people sometimes struggle to control their anger at journalists at such moments.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2010)

Perhaps they found the landlords car on CCTV driving towards where they found the girl.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 30, 2010)

I admit I shouldn't have lept to the conclusion it was her BF...(it often is in these cases though)

I am quite happy to stand by 'I reckon the feds know who it is' though. Sounds like they had their suspicions from the start.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> ... I am quite happy to stand by 'I reckon the feds know who it is' though. Sounds like they had their suspicions from the start.


 
I think it is early days yet.. 

They aere just questionning the guy at the moment.


----------



## Geri (Dec 30, 2010)

It makes sense in any murder investigation to start with the people closest to the victim and move outwards, so the boyfriend will have been the obvious choice to start with.


----------



## Geri (Dec 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> I was thinking he may have knocked on her door, invited her around to his as it "was Christmas" and she took the pizza and cider along.
> 
> I know it's idle speculation but it's the premeditated aspect that chills the blood.


 
No, the cider was still in her flat, half drunk.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 30, 2010)

I see that despite being described as "an active pillar of the community" some people interviewed on BBC news just now confirmed that "he kept himself to himself".


----------



## Littlelostlamb (Dec 30, 2010)

It seems really obvious now it was him. In the pic in the papers he is grinning (seems strange given talking re the death of a young neighbour).


----------



## Lakina (Dec 30, 2010)

_innocent until proven guilty..._


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 30, 2010)

I can't believe the amount of stuff people are trawling up in advance of anyone even being charged...


----------



## greenfield (Dec 30, 2010)

And to top it all he's a Lib Dem activist!


----------



## killer b (Dec 30, 2010)

greenfield said:


> And to top it all he's a Lib Dem activist!


 
that seals it.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 30, 2010)

I could have sworn the radio said the police could question him until Monday. 

That seems a long time.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 30, 2010)

Lakina said:


> _innocent until proven guilty..._


 
Pish and tush. Verdicts are crowdsourced these days. It's a cornerstone of the big society and essential to driving efficiencies through the courts services.


----------



## laptop (Dec 30, 2010)

Geri said:


> It makes sense in any murder investigation to start with the people closest to the victim and move outwards, so the boyfriend will have been the obvious choice to start with.


 
Sometimes it *may* also help to question one suspect while watching the others closely for mistakes.

Won't know until the verdict, or the appeal.


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 30, 2010)

I hate that this mans details have been blabbed all over the apapers.  He has not been convicted ffs.  Be interesting to see what happens.  Remember with the Suffolk Strangler they arrested that loony Tesco worker and he had fuck all to do with it apart from being a bot of a wrong 'un.


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 31, 2010)

According to the Wail he was fond of 19th-century romantic poet Christina Rossetti who often wrote about death,well thats me convinced,the blokes' guilty as fuck!!!!!


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

All he is guilty of thus far is using blue rinse and being a bit of a curtain twitcher.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 31, 2010)

weltweit said:


> I could have sworn the radio said the police could question him until Monday.
> 
> That seems a long time.


 
96 hrs innit....


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2010)

Now it turns out that he bought the rental flat from a fellow teacher who was later convicted as a paedophile. 

So who owns the top floor ?


----------



## fogbat (Dec 31, 2010)

Upchuck said:


> All he is guilty of thus far is using blue rinse and being a bit of a curtain twitcher.


 
There's something wrong when Upchuck's talking the most sense on a thread.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2010)

Apparently they're now re-opening a similar murder from 1974 - several years before he came to Bristol.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

That's just the mirror getting ahead of itself as they look though their old files - the police haven't said they're re-opening it (it actually was re-opened early this year anyway). Body of a young female student, strangled and dumped 800 yards from where this girl lived - bung that in the paper.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 31, 2010)

Piece in radio4 about 'contempt of court' wrt predjudicial media coverage


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

The theory mentioned in this thread already makes sense: that she went upstairs and shared pizza and cider with this bloke.  Maybe he was hoping for a meat lovers and let his temper get the better of him?  Or maybe, just maybe, he had nothing to do with it at all.  

But seriously, who has pizza and cider with their landlord?  Surely that must be a crime in itself.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2010)

Pretty well everyone is chucking mud / distancing themselves - neighbours, ex-colleagues , ex-students ...
If he turns out to be innocent there's going to be a lot of embarassment ...

It's distinctly weird seeing his face everywhere  - having met him a couple of times....


----------



## MysteryGuest (Dec 31, 2010)

gentlegreen said:


> Now it turns out that he bought the rental flat from a fellow teacher who was later convicted as a paedophile.


 

He must of got nonce germs off it that made him go mental!


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

From the Mail:



> Oliver Cullen, who has known Mr Jefferies for years and once owned a flat in the same block, told The Times: 'I don't believe for one minute that Chris has done this.
> 'He would not be physically capable for one thing. He only weighs about 11 stones. He would not have the strength to do something like that.
> 'He is a nice man. A bit vocal perhaps and certainly rather eccentric, but he was just an old school teacher really.'
> *Asked if Mr Jefferies was capable of a sexual attack, Mr Cullen added: 'Not where a woman was concerned, no.'*


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

Why the confusion - look how many times the papers have called him a bachelor or emphasised that he's not married. What do you think they're trying to say?


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 31, 2010)

No doubt the Mirror would have his fetish for polo-neck jumpers as proof of the frequent strangulations he conducted.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 31, 2010)

gentlegreen said:


> Pretty well everyone is chucking mud / distancing themselves - neighbours, ex-colleagues , ex-students ...
> If he turns out to be innocent there's going to be a lot of embarassment ...
> 
> It's distinctly weird seeing his face everywhere  - having met him a couple of times....



Embarrassment is hardly the word really. It'll be fucking horrible if he didn't do it. A life destroyed.


----------



## IC3D (Dec 31, 2010)

If she left the flat without her keys it would mean she would of had to of been with someone who had the ability to get back into the flat themselves. Also going upstairs for a drink and he replaced the keys is possible.


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Why the confusion - look how many times the papers have called him a bachelor or emphasised that he's not married. What do you think they're trying to say?


 
That he is capable of a sexual attack!  I lol'd


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 31, 2010)

Interesting post on Digital Spy by "BS3R"

Hope it is OK to post here for a bit of balance to what the papers are printing...

"I've been reading every page of this thread for nearly 3 days but have only just been able to register (annoying as there were so many things I wanted to correct). I've been reading along as I've also found the press/Sky coverage really very nasty and at odds with modern justice.

I went to the school in question and know the teacher. I've got friends to this day who were taught directly by him, as was my brother. It's heartening that so many of you who don't know him recognise that the press are butchering his reputation, as I also believe that, knowing of the guy.

Like some of the teachers quoted in the press today (who I also know) I believe there is no way in hell he did it. But rather than drone on at you with opinion on the media, here are some specific points of order:

Maybe it was a different generation but I don't remember a single person in over 5 years calling him "the strange Mr. Jefferies". He did lose his temper in class but so did most of his generation, I also remember him being one of the more "smiley" school masters you would see outside of class (i.e. genuinely positive and content in their jobs) and I recall he also sung "Great Balls of Fire" solo in a school play for the humour value, fully aware how self-depreciating it was. The trouble is the media turn "eccentric" into something distant, evil and untrustworthy when there are positive eccentric people all around us. His back story today is very one-sided.

The 'evil glint in his eye' (one post on here) which has had him convicted from a 30 second Sky interview, is something he's always done and it was always accompanied by a grin that usually reflected passion for whatever he'd be talking about. The guy is an 'old school' English literature teacher, the kind who get off just speaking aloud, he would always have a theatrical way about him when he's speaking, it's no different to someone like Brian Sewell (art critic) who you'd say is equally avant garde and camp but not at all evil. The guy has a passion for our language, he always had a glint in his eye when he was addressing people. Anyone who's ever met him knows that, which therefore makes feedback on his Sky interview (which even Sky seem to be referring to) absolutely irrelevant and misunderstood.

There's some comment in the press about pupils saying he was touchy feely which is obviously being used to present a guy who may come onto Jo Yeates. Yes, he was known to grab people's hands to get across passion for a particular piece of prose, but outside of class the guy was undeniably hugely introverted and would give everyone a wide berth, clutch folders in front of his chest and wear a big scarf. His classroom was where he relaxed but outside of it he had body language of someone who hated his personal space being invaded and didn't deal easily with strangers. I just don't see that going along with what is necessary to take a woman's life, particularly a new tenant he barely knew.

The Mr. Hardyman in the same block who reported that Mr. Jefferies had seen something (and who had been ill in bed) is another old ex-teacher, so while the press today seem to have altered the tone of residents in the block to now being concerned by Jefferies behaviour and comments, it's really no surprise that these claims are from "unnamed" people, the ones who have been named, like Mr. Hardyman I'm sure are supportive of him as former colleagues.

The headmaster of the school interviewed on TV simply wanted to create as much distance between Mr. Jefferies and the school - it was quite distasteful as it effectively cast him further adrift into this media picture of being a strange old loner. I have no doubt Mr. Jefferies IS still known by a number of teachers, and for the head to suggest they had never crossed paths is ludicrous. Clifton College is an open campus which means it's not exclusively within a private off road campus, many of the school buildings line local streets and staff and pupils will be back and forth on local streets on a daily basis, Canynge Road is one of those. There are playing fields on it and boarding houses yards away.

The pedophile link is of someone who worked at the same time as him, the victim was in my year, but calling the two of them friends is a reach - they were the antithesis of each other, for one thing none of you would react to an interview with the convicted child molester in the same way, he was a lot less eccentric, more streetwise and smart talking. The standards the media have applied to Jefferies' interview in singling him out, they're foregoing in linking him to a man convicted of child molesting. It's all horribly convenient.

Another of my teachers was arrested for the 70's murder which Mr. Jefferies is now being linked with and recounted the story to us when we were at school. As I recall many hundreds of men were questioned in the area, if there was even a hint Mr. Jefferies could have been involved I'm sure he would have been so clearly he has an alibi which media are unaware of in their hunger to tear this guy to pieces.

I was contacted on Friends Reunited yesterday (as I guess all people from my school have been) by an investigative journalist for a Sunday paper. When I expressed my view of what the media was doing to this guy, he claimed to be aiming to put the other side of the story, but I don't buy it.

All of this is going on while a girl remains murdered and the press are reporting (with much less prominence) that our regional police force forgot to check local rubbish until after the weekly collection and several other mistakes. On top of which there are sightings reported locally that we've heard nothing about. The police have more info and pursuing Mr. Jefferies seems desperate to say the least. However, like many recent high profile murders it seems to be the way, to bring in a media suspect just long enough to flush out the real murderer. I hope that's the case, I'd be gobsmacked if Jefferies is charged and if not, I hope he sues the papers for everything as they've already had him executed."


----------



## miss minnie (Dec 31, 2010)

5t3IIa said:


> Embarrassment is hardly the word really. It'll be fucking horrible if he didn't do it. A life destroyed.


As happened to Lindy Chamberlain and the case of the 'dingo baby'.  A shameful episode.  I remember it vividly, the masses braying for blood was disgusting.


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 31, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> Interesting post on Digital Spy by "BS3R"
> 
> Hope it is OK to post here for a bit of balance to what the papers are printing...
> 
> ...


 
Fair dos.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

That's just the other side of the 'he did it, look at the state of him' coin in all fairness.

What does this mean



> On top of which there are sightings reported locally that we've heard nothing about.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 31, 2010)

Hmm. She did it though, didn't she?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

Upchuck said:


> That he is capable of a sexual attack!  I lol'd


 
Yes i'm sure that was verbatim piece of reporting - esp preceded by a bit that said he wasn't physically capable of attacking anyone.

Stop making fogbat look bad.


----------



## miss minnie (Dec 31, 2010)

5t3IIa said:


> Hmm. She did it though, didn't she?


If you are referring to Lindy Chamberlain, no, it turned out that she didn't.


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 31, 2010)

It's not been classed as a sexual attack has it?


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

No.  And Lindy Chamberlain didn;t do it.  I hope this guy sues for wrongful arrest if he aint done it.

But I wonder, if the police's theory is right, what would make an eccentric blue haired small man strangle his young downstairs architect tennant.  I can't imagine my landlord murdering me.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 31, 2010)

The 'papers understand really very well they have to stay one side of a near imaginary line here.

The line is between a normal jury trial and - should he be charged - his defence claiming there is no possibility of a fair trail due to any likely jury being exposed to press 'speculation'.

Thee was a case a few years ago - can't recall the details - where conviction was not possible and the media has been very careful since then. This isn't testing that line yet, but a few more days of this . . .


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

The Mirror has exposed him as a 'peeping tom' now after an interview with bitter former tenants.

I mean fuck!  Who would rent a flat where the landlord lived in the same block upstairs, was retired, and had too much time on his hands?  Men like this pop in and out of flats all the time.  They've little else to do.  

Stilll don't make him a killer/


----------



## weltweit (Dec 31, 2010)

IC3D said:


> If she left the flat without her keys it would mean she would of had to of been with someone who had the ability to get back into the flat themselves. Also going upstairs for a drink and he replaced the keys is possible.


 
The keys being in the flat make the boyfriend more suspicious.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

Of what?


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

How many keys?  My keyring only has 2 keys on it.  i mean there are keys and there are _keys_


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

**


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

One theory is she got locked out and sought refuge upstairs with the stangling murdering blue haired landlord


----------



## weltweit (Dec 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Of what?


 
Of her being happy to go out (keyless) with her boyfriend because he could have had his keys...


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

weltweit said:


> Of her being happy to go out (keyless) with her boyfriend because he could have had his keys...



Who?


----------



## weltweit (Dec 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Who?


 
Stop with your ridiculous questions, you know perfectly well what I am getting at!


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 31, 2010)

The Attorney General is not very happy about it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12100015


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

weltweit said:


> Stop with your ridiculous questions, you know perfectly well what I am getting at!


 
What, when he was elsewhere as told by mates. How did she get in then? Back to detective school.


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> What, when he was elsewhere as told by mates. How did she get in then? Back to detective school.


 
The landlord let her in doing a good turn.  Now he is up in front of the beak.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> What, when he was elsewhere as told by mates. How did she get in then? Back to detective school.


 
So. Hercule, I suppose you have already solved the spook in the bag killing eh?


----------



## AverageJoe (Dec 31, 2010)

Upchuck said:


> One theory is she got locked out and sought refuge upstairs with the stangling murdering blue haired landlord


 
Except that they found the pizza reciept and a half drunk bottle of cider inside her flat...


----------



## Upchuck (Dec 31, 2010)

Really?  That's the first I heard of the half drunk cider bottle.

Is it possible one of her workmates killed her?  They would have known the bf was away and likley her address too.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 31, 2010)

Upchuck said:


> Is it possible one of her workmates killed her?  They would have known the bf was away and likley her address too.


 
That's a point, or maybe it was her postman who brought a parcel for him that day, or maybe it was her best friend's step-dad, who let's face it is a bit weird.


----------



## IC3D (Dec 31, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> That's a point, or maybe it was her postman who brought a parcel for him that day, or maybe it was her best friend's step-dad, who let's face it is a bit weird.


 
You would say that that to draw attention away from yourself murdering scum!


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2010)

The Mail sees some focus now being on the neighbour with the jump leads ...


----------



## Geri (Dec 31, 2010)




----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2010)

Some of these "News aggregators" are very strange indeed :-

Discountvouchers.co.uk

rhinocarhire.com

http://news.google.com/news/story?p...h&ncl=d906AlaIzagC_aMKu0ay7IsEg6QhM&scoring=n


----------



## IC3D (Dec 31, 2010)

I have complete faith that the ongoing investgations will be thorough and no stone will be left unturned in this case to find the truth and bring to justice the criminal behind this and when they have done that The Daily Mail will anounce who it is.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

IC3D said:


> I have complete faith that the ongoing investgations will be thorough and no stone will be left unturned in this case to find the truth and bring to justice the criminal behind this and when they have done that The Daily Mail will anounce who it is.


 
What is it with you freaks and your daily mail obsession?

I expect when someone is convicted as per your post they might say something yes.


----------



## ernestolynch (Dec 31, 2010)

The Daily Mail, sorry 'Daily Fail', brainwashes the great unwashed.


----------



## IC3D (Dec 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> What is it with you freaks and your daily mail obsession?
> 
> I expect when someone is convicted as per your post they might say something yes.


 
I'm fine about being a freak the post was ment to be ironic like about the Daily Fail doing like the investigation and the people quoting it. I've never mentioned it before.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 31, 2010)

I only quote the Fail in an ironic way ...


----------



## IC3D (Dec 31, 2010)

gentlegreen said:


> I only quote the Fail in an ironic way ...


 
Irony is hard on the internet I just poked myself in the rolleyes whilst facepalming so thats why it wasn't clear.


----------



## yardbird (Dec 31, 2010)

The police have just been granted the last lot of additional time for questioning.

I keep an open mind about this case, I notice that most don't.


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 31, 2010)

One scenario (implying the guilt of no-one) that would fit the odd facts, is this. It was the end of the week, the couple had been working all week, the flat was untidy.

Yeates gets home along, eats the pizza, drinks half a bottle of cider. Then thinks maybe she should clear up a bit but the kitchen bin, etc. is overflowing, so she takes the pizza packaging and some other crap out to the bins outside. She is popping out for a second so doesn't take keys or purse and leaves the doors ajar. Then she is attacked outside by someone, a random stranger. The bins outside are emptied a few days later, before the police start searching (this seems to have been reported).

No pizza wrapper found. Purse, coat, pizza receipt in flat.

The "only" problem I can see with this is that the killer would have to quickly enter the building to shut her flat door as well as the door to the house, but that doesn't seem like a huge distance. The front door to the whole building looks like it was right next to her flat.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Dec 31, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> The headmaster of the school interviewed on TV simply wanted to create as much distance between Mr. Jefferies and the school - it was quite distasteful as it effectively cast him further adrift into this media picture of being a strange old loner. I have no doubt Mr. Jefferies IS still known by a number of teachers, and for the head to suggest they had never crossed paths is ludicrous. Clifton College is an open campus which means it's not exclusively within a private off road campus, many of the school buildings line local streets and staff and pupils will be back and forth on local streets on a daily basis, Canynge Road is one of those. There are playing fields on it and boarding houses yards away.
> "


You're entitled to your viewpoint, but I thought he played a straight bat and didn't let the media - whose questioning bordered on the disgusting - sway him. For someone who would'nt be used to this sort of public scrutiny his performance was throughly commendable - and I'd be surprised if Mr. Jefferies would have any cause for complaint.


----------



## vokey (Dec 31, 2010)

The Lib Dem actvist landlord would be the obvioius suspect but let's see...


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 31, 2010)

Dr. Furface said:


> You're entitled to your viewpoint, but I thought he played a straight bat and didn't let the media - whose questioning bordered on the disgusting - sway him. For someone who would'nt be used to this sort of public scrutiny his performance was throughly commendable - and I'd be surprised if Mr. Jefferies would have any cause for complaint.




It's not my viewpoint though - the whole thing is copied and pasted from a post by "BS3R" on Digital Spy, as hopefully I made clear by stating that at the top of my post, and including the rest in quote marks.

I posted it in it's entirety as it just was a contrast to the usual smears cobbled together by some newspapers.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Dec 31, 2010)

Paul, I share your disgust about the media's handling of this viz Mr. Jefferies but I get the impression that you think you have a better understanding of this case simply because you went to that school. Really you don't know any more than anyone else not directly involved in it.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

He didn't bloody go there. He posted someone else's post from another board on here. He's said this twice now. (That this post was just the reverse of those saying he's guilty is neither here nor there).


----------



## sheothebudworths (Dec 31, 2010)

Dr. Furface said:


> Paul, I share your disgust about the media's handling of this viz Mr. Jefferies but I get the impression that you think you have a better understanding of this case simply because you went to that school. Really you don't know any more than anyone else not directly involved in it.


 
Fucking hell, lol!


----------



## Dr. Furface (Dec 31, 2010)

ok my bad - soz


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 31, 2010)

Dr. Furface said:


> Paul, I share your disgust about the media's handling of this viz Mr. Jefferies but I get the impression that you think you have a better understanding of this case simply because you went to that school. Really you don't know any more than anyone else not directly involved in it.



Erm, please go back and read that post.

I make it clear THESE ARE NOT MY VIEWS. I NEVER WENT TO THIS SCHOOL. I HAVE NOT EXPRESSED ANY DIGUST, ETC.

The whole thing is someone else's post.  Copied from another message board.

That's why I say at the top "This is a post by someone else on a different message board that I thought was interesting, hope it's OK to post it here".

OK?

Edit: OK, I see we are on the same wavelength now. Good!


----------



## Dr. Furface (Dec 31, 2010)

Paul - I've done that and I unreservedly apologise. I'm a dickhead  - and happy new year!


----------



## Paul Russell (Dec 31, 2010)

Dr. Furface said:


> Paul - I've done that and I unreservedly apologise. I'm a dickhead  - and happy new year!



Heh. No apology necessary. Happy New Year.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 1, 2011)

How long have the police been questionning the landlord now? 

It seems a long time.


----------



## Lakina (Jan 1, 2011)

police = clueless


----------



## laptop (Jan 1, 2011)

weltweit said:


> How long have the police been questionning the landlord now?
> 
> It seems a long time.


 
Since sometime on Thursday. Not _that_ long, measured in hours: seems longer, measured in Tweets?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 1, 2011)

It will be truly bizarre if he did it.  Some kind of accident or misunderstanding maybe?  Tempers flared.  He would have looked right mad in the act of strangulation, what with that hair and the skivvy.


----------



## killer b (Jan 1, 2011)

boyfriend says the media treatment of jefferies is 'shameful'. good lad.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...tatement_About_Effect_Of_Her_Death_In_Bristol


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 1, 2011)

I hope the Fail in particular gets reported to the PCC.

A couple of the rags have even reported the labels on the evidence bags.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 1, 2011)

The whole sub judice law is outdated crap that needs doing away with. Jurors will read the internet. Rather than trying to stop global publication of prejudicial information, how about trusting jurors to reach the right verdict?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 1, 2011)

Repeatedly calling an un-charged suspect under arrest "'Prof Strange'" steps way over the line.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 1, 2011)

If I were arrested on suspicion of murder I hate to think the things that would be written about me.  And I've never done much!  But no doubt some enemies from the past would come out and blab about harboured resentments.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 1, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> Repeatedly calling an un-charged suspect under arrest "'Prof Strange'" steps way over the line.


 
But we can't stop foreign media or people on every message board on the internet from doing that.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 1, 2011)

Does it mean anything that they are questionning him for so long. 

I mean I suppose it would take a while to process the two cars. 

But to question him for so long without charging him, does it imply anything?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 1, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Does it mean anything that they are questionning him for so long.
> 
> I mean I suppose it would take a while to process the two cars.
> 
> But to question him for so long without charging him, does it imply anything?


 
What? Like he's more likely to be guilty?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 1, 2011)

I have a horrible feeling that the low temperatures may have messed up the forensics and left them hoping for someone to break down - not necessarily him.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 1, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> What? Like he's more likely to be guilty?


 
If anything - less... 

If they had enough to charge him already then surely they would have - no?


----------



## laptop (Jan 1, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Does it mean anything that they are questionning him for so long...
> 
> But to question him for so long without charging him, does it imply anything?


 
Wellll.... not sure in this case, but...

In such high-profile cases it often seems that there's benefit to the prosecution in holding a suspect without charge. Allows the papers to let rip. (How's Sky doing?)

Contempt of court kicks in when "proceedings are active". 

In theory, that might be from arrest: in practice, it's taken as from charge. On lots of other threads db and I have agreed this is unjust to the arrestee...


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 1, 2011)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ries-obsessed-with-death-ex-pupil-claims.html
The Scum frontpage today


----------



## weltweit (Jan 1, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ries-obsessed-with-death-ex-pupil-claims.html
> The Scum frontpage today


 
Well, he is certainly guilty of criminal hairstyles


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 1, 2011)

killer b said:


> boyfriend says the media treatment of jefferies is 'shameful'. good lad.
> 
> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK...tatement_About_Effect_Of_Her_Death_In_Bristol


Strangly enough the Wail doesn't mention the boyfriend's  criticism of the media coverage of Jefferies just his tribute to his late girlfriend


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 1, 2011)

He's been released on bail.  Hope he sues.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 1, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> He's been released on bail.  Hope he sues.


 
indeed: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12103905

Does this signify anything, other than that they have not found enough to charge him with anything?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 1, 2011)

Bullshit.  Released on bail on a potential murder charge.  I doubt it.  Police trying to save face.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 1, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Bullshit.  Released on bail on a potential murder charge.  I doubt it.  Police trying to save face.


 
What are you saying? 

That 1) they have found nothing in his cars? 2) nothing through interrogation 3) he is no longer a suspect?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 1, 2011)

Oh I think the police will say he is still a suspect, but I don;t reckon he is.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jan 1, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Bullshit.  Released on bail on a potential murder charge.  I doubt it.  Police trying to save face.


 
That's not what it means at all.  You don't have enough information to make this assumption - you're as bad as those saying he is definately guilty.  

They are only allowed to keep him in for a certain amount of time.  They have arrested him, because their is some sort of evidence suggesting he may have been involved in the murder.  This evidence is not sufficient to secure any sort of conviction, so they interview him with the intention of either extracting a confession/hoping he slips up in the interview some how and drops himself in it, or ruling him out of their enquiries.  He hasn't been ruled out or they would have released him without charge (why do you think the police would be embarrassed to do this?  People are regularly arrested and not prosecuted.  If anything this shows that the police are being thorough with their investigation, which would be no source of embarrassment to them).  He hasn't confessed or he'd be in front of a magistrate first thing Monday morning.  He is still a suspect.


----------



## editor (Jan 2, 2011)

If it turns out he wasn't involved in the murder, his life will be pretty much fucked now anyway.


----------



## Riklet (Jan 2, 2011)

Creepy landlord seems too obvious, reckon he's all clear then? I reckon they nabbed him because his story about her leaving with two other people but he wasn't quite sure just seems so stereotypically made up...

Hope his life isn't completely fucked if he's innocent


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 2, 2011)

Yeah it would be a bit straw-clutching if they arrested just for that



> “I can quite believe that under cross examination he would give confusing answers because he is a bit of a nutty professor, you might say, always wanting to qualify any statements he makes for fear of getting it wrong,” he said.
> 
> “My reading of the situation at the moment is that he has not stood up very well to police questioning but I would back my judgment on him.
> 
> ...


----------



## weltweit (Jan 2, 2011)

I don't quite understand why he has been released with no charge but apparently on bail. 

Isn't bail reserved for people who are charged?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 2, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I don't quite understand why he has been released with no charge but apparently on bail.
> 
> Isn't bail reserved for people who are charged?



Nope, Chris Jefferies is on bail after being released by police 'pending further inquiries'


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 2, 2011)

From the latest police statement sounds like the police are suggesting a strangler is on the loose and all in Clifton should be careful.  Maybe it was a stranger murder.


----------



## Geri (Jan 2, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> From the latest police statement sounds like the police are suggesting a strangler is on the loose and all in Clifton should be careful.  Maybe it was a stranger murder.


 
Link?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 2, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/02/joanna-yeates-police-reassure-public


----------



## laptop (Jan 2, 2011)

Geri said:


> Link?


 


> Ch Supt John Stratford, of Avon and Somerset Police, said increased patrols were maintained to reassure the public.
> 
> "There is no specific intelligence or information to suggest an increase in a threat to [people's] safety," he said.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12105327



Reassurance == "be very afraid"


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 2, 2011)

So it was the boyfriend all along then.


----------



## Geri (Jan 2, 2011)

A reminder to take the_ usual precautions._


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> So it was the boyfriend all along then.


 
It was someone with a  car who knew the area.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 2, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> It was someone with a  car who knew the area.


 
Not a cyclist? You're working quite hard to rule yourself out. Rather suspicious, that.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 2, 2011)

It was mentioned the fact that a landscape architect was dumped near fields and a quarry.  Is this some kind of sign?  A mockery?  

Interesting the bf is already talking about putting in a request at work for a ransfer to a different part of the country with work.


----------



## laptop (Jan 2, 2011)

Geri said:


> A reminder to take the_ usual precautions._


*Seven seals of safety
*


Resign your job
Stay indoors, in the kitchen
Do not go anywhere without a man
Wear a _niqab_ 
Avoid Wikileaks geeks
Carry a big knife
...and a tactical thermonuclear back-pack weapon


----------



## Geri (Jan 2, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> It was someone with a  car who knew the area.


 
That should narrow it down a bit.


----------



## laptop (Jan 2, 2011)

> A community contact vehicle staffed by police officers was parked close by to offer comfort to any concerned local people.



"Community contact vehicle"... can't resist thinking of...







?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 2, 2011)

So where does this leave the Urban obsession with electronic data trails ?

Are we safer as victims, or safer as accusees if we always carried electronic devices and use them abundantly ?

And in the future, doubtless some people will choose to have their mobile comms embedded ....


----------



## strung out (Jan 2, 2011)

what urban obsession with electronic data trails?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 2, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Not a cyclist? You're working quite hard to rule yourself out. Rather suspicious, that.


 
I don't even have a bike at the moment. 

And I have been on the Internets almost continuously since before the poor victim got home.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> what urban obsession with electronic data trails?



Well OK, just one or two obsessed about RFID tags, but I feel sure there's a general dislike of CCTV etc ...


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

some of the posts on this thread are downright bizarre to be fair


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 2, 2011)

embree said:


> some of the posts on this thread are downright bizarre to be fair


 
It simply struck me that data trails have provided the backbone of the evidence in this case - and if she'd been lured out of the house with her coat and hence mobile it would have been a very different case .. I had it on my mind because there was an advert earlier for something being marketed for the elderly to wear around their necks so you could see where they were on a PC screen.

http://www.buddi.co.uk/


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

I wasn't only talking about you to be honest


----------



## big eejit (Jan 2, 2011)

"Police investigating the murder of Joanna Yeates have advised local women not to walk home alone after dark and warned householders to make sure their homes were secure.

Officers acknowledged there were "concerns for safety" among Bristol residents while the killer remains at large but emphasised they had received no "specific intelligence" to suggest there was any increased danger."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/02/joanna-yeates-police-safety-warning

So wasn't it a bit cavalier of the police to assume they'd got their man and there was no need for women to take extra care?


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 2, 2011)

Sounds liked they've narrowed it down to either someone the victim knew or else a complete stranger.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 2, 2011)

Paul Russell said:


> Sounds liked they've narrowed it down to either someone the victim knew or else a complete stranger.


 
So its either someone she knew or....someone she didnt know? 

Come on Poirot!!!  btw - have you got that SD card back to its owners yet? I think these two threads are linked. So many wannabe detectives here, so give them some of those pics on the other thread and lets get that SD card of wedding pics back to its rightul owner.


----------



## southside (Jan 2, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> So its either someone she knew or....someone she didnt know?
> 
> Come on Poirot!!!  btw - have you got that SD card back to its owners yet? I think these two threads are linked. So many wannabe detectives here, so give them some of those pics on the other thread and lets get that SD card of wedding pics back to its rightul owner.


 
LOL!

That English teacher bloke does look a bit of an oddball and may be a victim of the because he looks a bit weird lets find out if he's guilty law.  The fact he's been bailed probably means its not him otherwise he would have been charged, I don't think he did it.


----------



## marshall (Jan 2, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> It was mentioned the fact that a landscape architect was dumped near fields and a quarry.  Is this some kind of sign?  A mockery?
> 
> Interesting the bf is already talking about putting in a request at work for a ransfer to a different part of the country with work.


 
Sorry, so the fact that she was left near fields and a quarry is two fingers up to her career as a landscape architect? Or a kind of code, sub-text or acknowledgement that the killer knew what her job was? And as for her b/f never wanting to go back to Bristol? Really, can you blame him?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 2, 2011)

This is why I have a love-hate relationship with "Baldi"


----------



## Lakina (Jan 2, 2011)

big eejit said:


> So wasn't it a bit cavalier of the police to assume they'd got their man and there was no need for women to take extra care?



Plod has clearly screwed this up.

Either Jefferies was the man, in which case plod was relying on forensic results that turned up negative...

or he wasn't, in which case they've wasted days and haven't got a clue on killers id. 

Classic plod.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 2, 2011)

Lakina said:


> Classic plod.



Oh yeah, the Police never solve any murder cases.

They really are rubbish at this crime solving lark.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jan 2, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Come on Poirot!!!



My case, she rests...


----------



## weltweit (Jan 2, 2011)

I heard, might have been here, that there was a similar strangulation case no too far away that was unsolved. No idea as to veracity.


----------



## strung out (Jan 2, 2011)

about 35 years ago


----------



## weltweit (Jan 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> about 35 years ago


 
oh


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 2, 2011)

The Mirror is winning this one in the ridiculous "journalism" stakes

*Joanna Yeates murder investigation: Chris Jefferies' 'favourite' poem was about killing wife!*



> The ex-pupil said: “He was obsessed by Oscar Wilde. His favourite poem by Wilde was the Ballad of Reading Gaol.
> 
> One passage reads: “Some kill their love when they are young, and some when they are old.
> 
> “Some strangle with the hands of lust, some with the hands of Gold. The kindest use a knife, because the dead so soon grow cold ”.



He's been released without charge ffs


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

And that Oscar Wilde was a confirmed bachelor too - surprised they missed that bit.


----------



## beeboo (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm finding myself fascinated by this case, partly because I could identify with the victim and her life circumstances seeming very similar to my own at that age, and feeling desperately sad for her family and boyfriend.  And partly because it's just so odd.  None of the theories about who, how and why really seem to stack up.  Murdered by someone she knew whilst inside their flat would seem to be the most likely scenario, but I can't bring myself to get into the speculation about specific individuals.  I hope for everyone concerned the police get to the bottom of it soon.


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 3, 2011)

beeboo said:


> I'm finding myself fascinated by this case, partly because I could identify with the victim and her life circumstances seeming very similar to my own at that age, and feeling desperately sad for her family and boyfriend.  And partly because it's just so odd.  None of the theories about who, how and why really seem to stack up.



Yes, I can understand why people are speculating like crazy (ahem) on the Internet. There's quite a load of info - pub, walk, CCTV in shops, mention of last phone call, flat scene, site where the body was dumped - out there quite quickly compared with a lot of cases. And none of it quite adds up. Pointless speculating though (as I've done above), as the police must have so much evidence they are purposely holding back and still sifting through.


----------



## rover07 (Jan 3, 2011)

The landlord did it definitely. The police have only let him out because they dont have enough evidence yet.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

I wonder how long it takes to process a car or three..


----------



## strung out (Jan 3, 2011)

rover07 said:


> The landlord did it definitely. The police have only let him out because they dont have enough evidence yet.


 
if the police don't have enough evidence yet, maybe you should give them the evidence you're holding that has let you determine his guilt so definitely


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 3, 2011)

Apparently they have a DNA sample from the body which they have been unable to match so far.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

If there had been MORE CCTV .....


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

When I retire to the country I'm going to set my place up like Fort Knox.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 3, 2011)

It's a bit pointless of the police telling women to be careful walking after dark if the killer waited in her flat.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> When I retire to the country I'm going to set my place up like Fort Knox.


 
When I lived in the country we didn't lock our doors or windows .. 

Well in the end we did .. but when I was young I don't recall us doing it.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

When the police arrested the landlord it seemed they were dynamically getting on with solving the crime, quickly and effectively. 

Now that he has been released without charge, and there has been silence from the police with their 70 staff working on the case, they are starting to look, well ... less lucky perhaps .. maybe a bit lost ..


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> When the police arrested the landlord it seemed they were dynamically getting on with solving the crime, quickly and effectively.
> 
> Now that he has been released without charge, and there has been silence from the police with their 70 staff working on the case, they are starting to look, well ... less lucky perhaps .. maybe a bit lost ..


 
Well, they must have masses of evidence that they are still going through - witness statements (and nothing has been mentioned about any of her work colleagues who presumably have been interviewed), cctv evidence (not just in the shops, surely she must have been caught on camera quite a few times between the pub and clifton down), cctv from crossing points over the river, forensic evidence to examine. Could be info overload at the moment.


----------



## beeboo (Jan 3, 2011)

Paul Russell said:


> Yes, I can understand why people are speculating like crazy (ahem) on the Internet. There's quite a load of info - pub, walk, CCTV in shops, mention of last phone call, flat scene, site where the body was dumped - out there quite quickly compared with a lot of cases. And none of it quite adds up. Pointless speculating though (as I've done above), as the police must have so much evidence they are purposely holding back and still sifting through.



I had a peek at the massive discussion on digital spy that someone mentioned earlier (I'm procrastinating about writing an essay at the mo so any diversion is appealing) and the amount of speculation taking place about even the most mundane detail is frankly hilarious - as if the murderer has to be one of the limited cast of characters we are already aware of and the pizza box has to be the smoking gun.

edited because I said I wasn't going to speculate and then I did.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

The pizza *is *a mystery that needs to be explained. If she didn't eat any of it and there's no evidence she even cooked it for someone else.

Let's hope they get some solid DNA evidence from the body and / or one of her friends remembers something.


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 3, 2011)

I think there's meant to be a press conference at 3. Sounds like the police might be giving out a bit more info this time...


----------



## beeboo (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> The pizza *is *a mystery that needs to be explained. If she didn't eat any of it and there's no evidence she even cooked it for someone else.
> 
> Let's hope they get some solid DNA evidence from the body and / or one of her friends remembers something.



Isn't it possible she cooked and ate it and put the packaging in the bin, which was emptied before the police started searching?

Or supporting my theory that there was an acquaintance in the flat with her that evening, they may have tried to tidy up any evidence that they had been there, by removing the pizza box and any other rubbish (eg they could have brought other alcohol to the house but then removed empty bottles/cans).

There's a press conference at 3pm apparently, not sure what that is about.  Fingers crossed progress is being made.


----------



## madzone (Jan 3, 2011)

Maybe she was having an affair.


----------



## madzone (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> When I retire to the country I'm going to set my place up like Fort Knox.


 
Why?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 3, 2011)

madzone said:


> Maybe she was having an affair.


 
Based on what exactly?

Maybe she worked for MI6 and was killed by the Russians?


----------



## madzone (Jan 3, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Based on what exactly?
> 
> Maybe she worked for MI6 and was killed by the Russians?


 
Do the russians like pizza?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

madzone said:


> Why?


 
I won't trust the police to look after me.


----------



## madzone (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> I won't trust the police to look after me.


 Why would you need looking after? The countryside is hardly a hotbed of rape and murder.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

madzone said:


> Why would you need looking after? The countryside is hardly a hotbed of rape and murder.


 
But I will be an incomer and therefore maybe a target and frail and elderly by the time I get there ...


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> The pizza *is *a mystery that needs to be explained. If she didn't eat any of it and there's no evidence she even cooked it for someone else.
> 
> Let's hope they get some solid DNA evidence from the body and / or one of her friends remembers something.



The police searched the bins the day after they were collected...


----------



## Thora (Jan 3, 2011)

A Sun journalist knocked on my brother's door the other day to ask about Jo Yeates!  Given he lives nowhere near Clifton it was a bit odd, think they were looking for the previous tenant (my brother swears he didn't do it btw).


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> The police searched the bins the day after they were collected...


 


I was wondering today whether they automatically put a call out for CCTV tapes to be kept longer than usual when someone's officially missing.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> I was wondering today whether they automatically put a call out for CCTV tapes to be kept longer than usual when someone's officially missing.



presumably not.. as one of the cctv cameras (a neighbours) over writes itself after 4 days.. would have been key evidence


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

"1500 pieces of info from the public, 250 lines of enquiry."

"247 tonnes of rubbish to sift through"

EDIT :-



> "Details surrounding the pizza and the cider are all relevant and I appreciate have been of ongoing interest. What I can tell you is that we still haven't found the pizza, but we have searched all bins in the area and we are working through 293 tonnes of domestic rubbish seized in the vicinity. This is a demonstration of the level of detail we are pursuing on this enquiry.
> 
> "At this stage it is still not absolutely clear whether Jo had eaten the pizza. We continue to work with experts to determine this."
> 
> ...



hxxp://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=22383&t=1&lid=1


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 3, 2011)

Did you hear him say 'Jo's killers'


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> "247 tonnes of rubbish to sift through"



*293 tonnes


----------



## quimcunx (Jan 3, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Did you hear him say 'Jo's killers'


 
yes.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

> DCI Jones concluded: "I can assure you we are determined to solve this crime and bring Jo's killers to justice. However I have to stress that this takes time. This is potentially a long and complex enquiry involving over 70 police officers and staff. No stone will be left un-turned in this investigation.


.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 3, 2011)

I think they know who did it but are letting them stew.  I don't think it was a stranger murder.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

So who knows anyone with a light coloured 4x4?


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> I think they know who did it but are letting them stew.  I don't think it was a stranger murder.


 
What would be the benefit in that?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> What would be the benefit in that?


 
So we all hate them more when they are arrested!


----------



## Lakina (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> What would be the benefit in that?


 
give them some time, let them kill a few more


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> So who knows anyone with a light coloured 4x4?


 
Most people probably.

There's one parked down my street


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

I am afraid I think they have checked out the usual suspects, the landlord, the boyfriend, the family and friends and have lucked out. 

Now they have a mass of conflicting data from their search and hundreds of lines of enquiry. I don't think they have ANY suspects at the moment.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

As to the pizza. 

They have done an autopsy. 

Is it not possible to know whether she had pizza remnants in her stomach?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 3, 2011)

In most murder cases like this, if the police don't have a good idea who did it within a few days, the chances of them ever catching anyone rapidly diminish.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> As to the pizza.
> 
> They have done an autopsy.
> 
> Is it not possible to know whether she had pizza remnants in her stomach?


Apparently not - I suppose it was a whole week - even at low temperatures.

Either that or he was holding back the info for tactical reasons.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 3, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> Apparently not - I suppose it was a whole week - even at low temperatures.
> 
> Either that or he was holding back the info for tactical reasons.


 
When first asked a few days ago he said tests are ongoing, which implies the later.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> In most murder cases like this, if the police don't have a good idea who did it within a few days, the chances of them ever catching anyone rapidly diminish.


 
Of course if there was a national DNA register, they might have the perpetrator already !!


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> When first asked a few days ago he said tests are ongoing, which implies the later.


 
We know they've held a number of things back - such as finding a DNA sample.

I have the feeling someone in there is relatively sussed about the status of contempt of court in the Age of Twitter  (2009-2012)... and is being careful to allow there to be a prosecution of whoever. Quite apart from the possibility that they're still waiting for someone (or some people - see above) to incriminate themselves.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

laptop said:


> We know they've held a number of things back - such as finding a DNA sample. .....


 
So, if they have found a DNA sample, and it was not of the landlord, why did they question the landlord for such a long period of time. 

I suspect it implies the DNA sample, if it exists, is less than completely compelling, esp as it did not seem to rule out the landlord.


----------



## beeboo (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I am afraid I think they have checked out the usual suspects, the landlord, the boyfriend, the family and friends and have lucked out.
> 
> Now they have a mass of conflicting data from their search and hundreds of lines of enquiry. I don't think they have ANY suspects at the moment.



It did sound that way didn't it.  However, that doesn't really tally with what they were saying the previous day that there was no evidence of any increased risk to the community, which would be more likely if it were a random stranger.  I suppose that could still be true - they may believe it was a stranger but that there isn't any significant risk of them striking again.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

I wonder how many routes there are from the flat to the lane where they found her body. And which have any CCTV covering them.


----------



## big eejit (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I wonder how many routes there are from the flat to the lane where they found her body. And which have any CCTV covering them.


 
There are one or two if you don't go via the suspension bridge. But the bits likely to be covered by CCTV are v busy main roads. So, if you're not looking for a specific vehicle....

I remember reading that strangulation was a very personal form of murder. Usually only happens when the murderer knows the victim. Probably only in a Wallender book or summat but seems reasonable.


----------



## madzone (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Of course if there was a national DNA register, they might have the perpetrator already !!


 
Just not necessarily the person who actually did it.


----------



## madzone (Jan 3, 2011)

big eejit said:


> There are one or two if you don't go via the suspension bridge. But the bits likely to be covered by CCTV are v busy main roads. So, if you're not looking for a specific vehicle....
> 
> I remember reading that strangulation was a very personal form of murder. Usually only happens when the murderer knows the victim. Probably only in a Wallender book or summat but seems reasonable.



I still think it could be a lover.

*based on nothing but an overactive imagination, bioboy


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

So, the killer took the pizza !! 

possibly


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I suspect it implies the DNA sample...



I brought it up merely as a known example of information they've kept back until it suits them to release it. 

And there's no reason to believe that they have the DNA results - analysis takes time, particularly on very small samples.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

laptop said:


> I brought it up merely as a known example of information they've kept back until it suits them to release it. ...


 
They have also not disclosed how she was strangled.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 3, 2011)

madzone said:


> Why would you need looking after? The countryside is hardly a hotbed of rape and murder.


 
Have you never listened to the Archers!!!!


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2011)

Sensible comment from Duncan Campbell at the Guardian here. Not original, but then the whole story is depressingly unoriginal.



> Murders are still comparatively rare in Britain. When one involves a young white woman and comes in that news-free Christmas/New Year limbo period it will inevitably find the spotlight that might elude it at busier times – in contrast, for example, to the case of Serena Beakhurst, who went missing more than two weeks ago in Tulse Hill. What has given this one additional coverage has been the arrest of a visible suspect with a hinterland of his own.


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Of course if there was a national DNA register, they might have the perpetrator already !!


 
oh do fuck off with this shite


----------



## weltweit (Jan 3, 2011)

embree said:


> oh do fuck off with this shite


 
Do I take it you are not a fan of the database state?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 3, 2011)

Have they apprehended anyone yet?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 4, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Have they apprehended anyone yet?


 
Well you'd think if they had, it might be on the news or something.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 4, 2011)

So: 

1) Her clothed body was dumped at the side of a country lane 3m out of Bristol, near a quarry, where snow fell on it and it was eventually discovered on Christmas day by a dog walker. 

2) She had been strangled, but we don't know how, when or where, except that we might deduce it probably did not happen at her flat as the police might have found some evidence of it there. Perhaps they have not disclosed this for tactical reasons. 

3) On her way home she had bought items including Cider and Pizza, she was caught on CCTV. The pizza has not yet been found and the autopsy seems not to have determined whether she ate any pizza.

4) Her keys and handbag were found left in the flat 

5) It seems the perpetrator is probably not her boyfriend or landlord, however this still leaves her friends with whom she had a drink that night, as possibles.

6) There may or may not have been some foreign dna found on her body. However if this dna does exist, it probably does not match the landlord.  The landlord's car has been examined, it seems nothing was found.

7) The police have about 1,500 items of evidence and 800 lines of enquiry. 

8) an appeal has been launched for the driver of a pale 4x4 seen in the lane to come forward. 

Is that about it? or is there more?


----------



## quimcunx (Jan 4, 2011)

madzone said:


> I still think it could be a lover.
> 
> *based on nothing but an overactive imagination, bioboy


 
There would be phone record evidence.  

Could be a wannabe lover from the pub. Boyfriend's away and he reckons he'll turn up at the flat.  Maybe thinks he got the come on from her.


----------



## laptop (Jan 4, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Is that about it? or is there more?


 
Front door being tested for DNA.

Post-mortem would likely have revealed pizza, unless she was killed more than a day after she ate it. So conclude police are withholding results.


----------



## madzone (Jan 4, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> There would be phone record evidence.
> 
> Could be a wannabe lover from the pub. Boyfriend's away and he reckons he'll turn up at the flat.  Maybe thinks he got the come on from her.


 She might have another phone. A lover phone. Or she was having an affair with someone who was a friend already.


----------



## madzone (Jan 4, 2011)

weltweit said:


> So:
> 
> 1) Her clothed body was dumped at the side of a country lane 3m out of Bristol, near a quarry, where snow fell on it and it was eventually discovered on Christmas day by a dog walker.
> 
> ...


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 4, 2011)

Beyond being fairly certain that the victim made it back to her flat safely, the police are keeping an open mind:

"But I am not going to speculate whether she let someone into the flat, whether someone was already there or whether someone broke into the flat."


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 4, 2011)

It hasn't been made clear, but it looks like the path on that side of the building is only a footpath so whoever did it would have had to get her all the way to a car parked on the street.- quite a way to go voluntarily without her coat and key on such a bitterly cold evening.

I wish I could stop thinking about this case, but several elements of it have given me food for thought.


----------



## quimcunx (Jan 4, 2011)

madzone said:


> She might have another phone. A lover phone. Or she was having an affair with someone who was a friend already.


 
The other phone thing is possible.  On the presumption that neither of them started out with the intention of it ending in death there would be evidence of the friend lover I'd think.  Unless it's a friend/lover phone combo.  How often do friends manage this without someone knowing or suspecting?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 4, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> but several elements of it have given me food for thought.


 
It's that missing pizza evidence that you're desperate to establish.


----------



## quimcunx (Jan 4, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It's that missing pizza evidence that you're desperate to establish.


 
It's a shame to let good pizza go to waste.


----------



## madzone (Jan 4, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> The other phone thing is possible.  On the presumption that neither of them started out with the intention of it ending in death there would be evidence of the friend lover I'd think.  Unless it's a friend/lover phone combo.  How often do friends manage this without someone knowing or suspecting?


 More often than you'd think.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 4, 2011)

.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 4, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> It's a shame to let good pizza go to waste.


 
I think the pizza was involved. Those goodfellas are badfellas.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 4, 2011)

Interesting timing of course, with her boyfriend away for the weekend.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2011)

still pointlessly and insensitively speculating? fucking bulletin boards


----------



## weltweit (Jan 4, 2011)

According to the news, the police have put an advert on FaceBook to appeal for witnesses.


----------



## madzone (Jan 4, 2011)

Yeah, that'll go well.....


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 4, 2011)

Press conference tomorrow at 9:30 and new CCTV footage of two people behind Jo in the street.


----------



## RubyBlue (Jan 4, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> still pointlessly and insensitively speculating? fucking bulletin boards


 
^^ this


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 4, 2011)

What is the point of a discussion forum if not to discuss things? And what's the point of discussing things if you neuter yourselves to the possibility of stretching the realms of credulity, within the constraints of a fucking conversation?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 4, 2011)

I wonder if a note was left in the flat, or some kind of scrawl indicating an abduction?  The parents begged for Jo 'back' in their first press conference, and then the body was located in not a too isolated location.  Maybe this is a random loon.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 4, 2011)

I always thought that wanting a missing person 'back' just followed their internal narrative of not wanting to expect that they may never be coming back. A coping mechanism for dealing with such a horrendous set of circumstances rather than indicative of information that they've been given.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 4, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> What is the point of a discussion forum if not to discuss things? And what's the point of discussing things if you neuter yourselves to the possibility of stretching the realms of credulity, within the constraints of a fucking conversation?


 
people have 'theories' for fucks sake. how can they? they know nothing. why can't they just wait and see what happens? people playing amateur detectives like this sicken me.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 4, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> people have 'theories' for fucks sake. how can they? they know nothing. why can't they just wait and see what happens? people playing amateur detectives like this sicken me.


 
So what is the point of the thread if not to discuss the story?

This is what people do.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 4, 2011)

dp


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> So what is the point of the thread if not to discuss the story?
> 
> This is what people do.


i don't know - originally it was about a woman's body being discovered and now they know who it it was.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> i don't know - originally it was about a woman's body being discovered and now they know who it it was.


 
When the landlord was arrested both my mum and girlfriend said "I knew it would have been him" or words to that effect. I just grinned, rolled my eyes a bit and said that there hadn't been a court case yet.

But it throws up an interesting conversation or two as to why they both said that. It's a symptom of something else. Too many cop shows? The way the media turns these events into soap operas for every arm-chair detective?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> people have 'theories' for fucks sake. how can they? they know nothing. why can't they just wait and see what happens? people playing amateur detectives like this sicken me.


 
Make sure you're sick in your own sink/toilet.


----------



## MysteryGuest (Jan 5, 2011)

mmmmm, pizza


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 5, 2011)

What I also find quite depressing about those speculations on the Digital Spy forum is how some people seem to be completely unable to step outside their own head and just have to relate it to their own experiences and world view.

Like, "If I was doing this, there is no way I would do that", "I'm the same size as Jo and there's no way I would eat all that pizza", "I've been married to Tony for 15 years and we still phone each other twice a day when apart, everyone does that".


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

lol.  thick folk innit


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Press conference tomorrow at 9:30 and new CCTV footage of two people behind Jo in the street.


 
So someone has a pizza _and_ a sock.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

But neither of them has a suitable vehicle to transport a body several miles.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

Perhaps someone met the bf half way and then returned in a different car and did the deed.  They would have had keys.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

This horrible family destroying murder case is a bit shit now.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

They thing that got me and depressed me from the start is that her mum works checkout at Waitrose.  Just normal people going about their lives and then this happens.  The mother looked totally destroyed in all the press conferences I saw.  It was horrible.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> They thing that got me and depressed me from the start is that her mum works checkout at Waitrose.  Just normal people going about their lives and then this happens.  The mother looked totally destroyed in all the press conferences I saw.  It was horrible.


 


butchersapron said:


> This horrible family destroying murder case is a bit shit now.


 .


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Press conference tomorrow at 9:30 and new CCTV footage of two people behind Jo in the street.


 
you're a murder groupie, aren't you?


----------



## Littlelostlamb (Jan 5, 2011)

Mr LLL's sister is on the forensic team on this case. Went to the post mort as well, not that she has shared any inside info though (and rightly so I guess. Either that or there is none to share).


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jan 5, 2011)

Littlelostlamb said:


> Mr LLL's sister is on the forensic team on this case. Went to the post mort as well, not that she has shared any inside info though (and rightly so I guess. Either that or there is none to share).


 
If she does give you any insider goss, make sure you post it up here, quick style.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2011)

Ghoul.


----------



## Littlelostlamb (Jan 5, 2011)

Jon-of-arc said:


> If she does give you any insider goss, make sure you post it up here, quick style.


 yeah, together we can nail this.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 5, 2011)

Pseudo Cluedo corner!


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

If you want to get things in perspective. The "websleuths.com" topic on this subject is spectacularly scary.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jan 5, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> If you want to get things in perspective. The "websleuths.com" topic on this subject is spectacularly scary.


 
Deary me!


----------



## Yetman (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This horrible family destroying murder case is a bit shit now.


 
I know it was great at the start but descended rapidly into a big load of shit. I remember when murder cases were all great, from start to finish. Those were the days.....


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 5, 2011)

Yetman said:


> I know it was great at the start but descended rapidly into a big load of shit. I remember when murder cases were all great, from start to finish. Those were the days.....



No it was shit at the start, shit now and shit forever. Just remember ghouls, for one family every Christmas will be shit from now on. Carry on wankers.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Just in case it wasn't clear, that was the point i was trying to make above.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

People shouldn't talk about things that might be bad for some other people, right?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> People shouldn't talk about things that might be bad for some other people, right?


 
Talk about what you want.


----------



## IC3D (Jan 5, 2011)

This story needs a manhunt prefably of the armed and dangerous kind.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

ITN were exlcuded from the police press conference this morning after criticising police progress on the case in a news report last night.

The police are complaining to OfCom and ITN are accusing the police of censorship.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> No it was shit at the start, shit now and shit forever. Just remember ghouls, for one family every Christmas will be shit from now on. Carry on wankers.


 
pretty much. you're all going to carry on though, on the basis that 'everyone else is doing it so it's OK for us to as well'. Bizarre and distasteful


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> pretty much. you're all going to carry on though, on the basis that 'everyone else is doing it so it's OK for us to as well'. Bizarre and distasteful


 
You lot would be right fun down the pub

"Do you reckon the investigation has been conducted well so far?"
"Oi! Shut up! That girls family will never find peace!"
"...I was only saying..."
"NO! This must never be spoken of, you sick and twisted fuck!"
".. bf did it blates.."


----------



## IC3D (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> pretty much. you're all going to carry on though, on the basis that 'everyone else is doing it so it's OK for us to as well'. Bizarre and distasteful


 
Thanks I didn't realise.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> You lot would be right fun down the pub
> 
> "Do you reckon the investigation has been conducted well so far?"
> "Oi! Shut up! That girls family will never find peace!"
> ...


 it's not the sort of thing i'd talk about down the pub. people talking about it as if it's just an entertaining spectacle are fucking idiots. it's not a soap opera


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jan 5, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> it's not the sort of thing i'd talk about down the pub. people talking about it as if it's just an entertaining spectacle are fucking idiots. it's not a soap opera


 
Thanks for clearing that up, but if you really want to have _nothing_ to do with it, stop talking about it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2011)

I reckon it was the sock what dunnit.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 5, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I reckon it was the sock what dunnit.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

That's a sinister lookin sock


----------



## IC3D (Jan 5, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> it's not the sort of thing i'd talk about down the pub. people talking about it as if it's just an entertaining spectacle are fucking idiots. it's not a soap opera


 
Self appointed moral guardians are stupider.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 5, 2011)

Stupid is stupid is stupid, stupid.


----------



## IC3D (Jan 5, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Stupid is stupid is stupid, stupid.


 
tltr


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> it's not the sort of thing i'd talk about down the pub. people talking about it as if it's just an entertaining spectacle are fucking idiots. it's not a soap opera


 
besides, this is written down for the whole fucking world to read


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Self appointed moral guardians are stupider.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

IC3D said:


> tltr


 
what the fuck does that mean?


----------



## IC3D (Jan 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> what the fuck does that mean?


 
lol, I appoint myself as your moral guardian.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> what the fuck does that mean?


 
It's a murder clue.


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 5, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Self appointed moral guardians are stupider.



But people who are entertained by a woman's murder are oh so much better eh. Twat.


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 5, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


>



Grow the fuck up or get a life. Seriously.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> get a life.


 
What a sick and inappropriate remark to make on this distressing thread. You disgust me.


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 5, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> What a sick and inappropriate remark to make on this distressing thread. You disgust me.



Fail. But I'm glad you're getting the point now wierdo. Now run along.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2011)

...


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Fail.


 
Fail...and?


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 5, 2011)

> A MAN approached police outside Joanna Yeates's flat this afternoon and handed over a grey sock. Police then spoke to him at the side of the property.


.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

People should know that you take police to a find - not the other way round. ...


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 5, 2011)

He was wearing it.


----------



## Geri (Jan 5, 2011)

People speculating about it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I just hope they hurry up and catch the killer or killers, as the longer it goes on, the less likely it seems that she must have known her killer(s) which makes it a bit scarier.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

It was briefly on The Sun's website, but then vanished ...


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 5, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> If you want to get things in perspective. The "websleuths.com" topic on this subject is spectacularly scary.


 
Fucking.Hell


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

Apparently it was the wrong sock.

Perhaps they'll suspect the chap who handed it in ...


----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2011)

On Orang Utan's point. 

I don't think it too ghoulish to follow the investigation. 

The murder was awful, grim, all fair minded people would prefer that it had not ocurred, but reality is that it has and now the focus quite rightly is on catching the killer. 

I don't think a small amount of speculation on the murder investigation is going to do too much harm. 

I certainly am much more offended by many other things that are routine on Urban.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

My slight obsession only started once I realised I'd met the LL a couple of years back and saw what the gutter press were trying to do.


----------



## Geri (Jan 5, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> My slight obsession only started once I realised I'd met the LL a couple of years back and saw what the gutter press were trying to do.


 
My boss has complained to the Mirror and to the Press Complaints Commission!


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jan 5, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Fucking.Hell


 
Jesus - one of them theorised that the cat, after not being fed all weekend, ate the pizza.  And presumably disposed of the packaging in a mischievious effort to throw the rozzers off the scent.  We need one of them Dr Dolittle types to interogate that cunning feline suspect...

I've been avoiding slagging people off on here for making baseless assumptions/scenarios, but that is just fucking insane.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jan 5, 2011)

Geri said:


> My boss has complained to the Mirror and to the Press Complaints Commission!


 
Isn't it the PCC where only the subject of the article is allowed to complain?  Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## laptop (Jan 5, 2011)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Isn't it the PCC where only the subject of the article is allowed to complain?


 
Correct.


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 5, 2011)

laptop said:


> Correct.



http://www.pcc.org.uk/complaints/makingacomplaint.html

"We normally accept complaints only from those who are directly affected by the matters about which they are complaining."

I was thinking about complaining about my local paper a few weeks ago until I read that...


----------



## beeboo (Jan 5, 2011)

Geri said:


> People speculating about it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I just hope they hurry up and catch the killer or killers, as the longer it goes on, the less likely it seems that she must have known her killer(s) which makes it a bit scarier.


 
I think some speculation is understandable - it's the fanciful character assassinations taking place in public message boards which I think people should be reining in (elsewhere more than here tbf).

I honestly don't know what would be the preferable outcome for her poor family - a stranger or an acquaintance.  Either outcome is hideous.  The worry is with the seeming increasing likelihood to it was a stranger is it becomes decreasingly likely that they'll be found.  I'm holding onto a hope that the police know much more than they're letting on, but things don't look massively promising.  If it were an acquaintance, you'd really have thought they'd have tracked them down by now.


----------



## Geri (Jan 5, 2011)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Isn't it the PCC where only the subject of the article is allowed to complain?  Correct me if I am wrong.


 
I dunno, that's what he told me.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 5, 2011)

I don't know which is worse, some of the wild nonsensical speculation on websleuths, or one of the neighbours saying that being interviewed by the police as part of the investigation is 'quite exciting'.


----------



## madzone (Jan 5, 2011)

Was everyone this precious about Maddie?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

madzone said:


> Was everyone this precious about Maddie?


 
Some people were, the usual suspects.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jan 5, 2011)

Geri said:


> I dunno, that's what he told me.


 
Yeah, I have no reason to doubt what you said, or what he told you.  Was just saying that it might not get very far.


----------



## Geri (Jan 5, 2011)

He's probably lying anyway.


----------



## big eejit (Jan 5, 2011)

It's human nature to speculate about things. Are we alone in the universe, did god create man or man create god, when will Liverpool sack Roy Hodgson? Doesn't always show us in our best light but we have to do it or we're not human. This especially applies if you live in Bristol where the Clifton Strangler is still at large.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

And it's such a counter-intuitive case. She had the sort of apparently well-balanced  life some of us envy.

You want to know why.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2011)

One of the things I wonder about is why the media interest. 

Not that there should not be, but around the same time a different young woman went missing in London. There was no national media interest as far as I can tell. Stephen Fry and others launched an appeal on twitter, but still as far as I can tell it did not hit the national media. It still has not although I gather the girl has been found. No idea in what condition. 

So why Jo Yeates in the national media from early on and this other girl not?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 5, 2011)

The girl was 14, presumably thought to be at risk of running away from home.
She turned up safe and sound.

 This is a well-educated woman in her mid-20s with a highly organised life.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> The girl was 14, presumably thought to be at risk of running away from home.
> She turned up safe and sound.
> 
> This is a well-educated woman in her mid-20s with a highly organised life.


 
I am not sure I understand your argument gentlegreen.

I accept that once there was a body in Bristol it was a big media story but before that?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I am not sure I understand your argument gentlegreen.
> 
> I accept that once there was a body in Bristol it was a big media story but before that?


 
It seems in this case the police and her parents assumed she had been murdered from the outset.


----------



## big eejit (Jan 5, 2011)

weltweit said:


> One of the things I wonder about is why the media interest.
> 
> Not that there should not be, but around the same time a different young woman went missing in London. There was no national media interest as far as I can tell. Stephen Fry and others launched an appeal on twitter, but still as far as I can tell it did not hit the national media. It still has not although I gather the girl has been found. No idea in what condition.
> 
> So why Jo Yeates in the national media from early on and this other girl not?



Why the media interest? Have you not seen a newspaper or news report in the last 200 (plus) years? It's media catnip.

The thing about the 14 year old runaway is a complete red herring.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Why the media interest? Have you not seen a newspaper or news report in the last 200 (plus) years? It's media catnip.



I know I am old, but not that old  

I agree once a body had been found it was high media interest and the police with their drip drip of information seem keen to keep it that way. 



big eejit said:


> The thing about the 14 year old runaway is a complete red herring.


 
I thought the 14 year old (I didn't know she was 14) was quite compelling.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

weltweit said:


> One of the things I wonder about is why the media interest.
> 
> Not that there should not be, but around the same time a different young woman went missing in London. There was no national media interest as far as I can tell. Stephen Fry and others launched an appeal on twitter, but still as far as I can tell it did not hit the national media. It still has not although I gather the girl has been found. No idea in what condition.
> 
> So why Jo Yeates in the national media from early on and this other girl not?



The runaway had two different surnames.  Maybe the police knew damn well where they would find her.  Maybe mum is a screaming chavvy harpy or a smack addict.  Maybe the family has a history.

The girl has turned up, as has Jo...


----------



## big eejit (Jan 5, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I thought the 14 year old (I didn't know she was 14) was quite compelling.


 
Maybe but it felt to me like a story the Guardian had dug out to demonstrate the paucity of media values. Which it did. But a runaway in London is 'dog bites man' to the 'man bites dog' story of murdered girl in Bristol's posh bit.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 5, 2011)




----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Maybe but it felt to me like a story the Guardian had dug out to demonstrate the paucity of media values. Which it did. But a runaway in London is 'dog bites man' to the 'man bites dog' story of murdered girl in Bristol's posh bit.


 
Oh, is Clifton Bristol's posh bit? I don't know Bristol much.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

Did Greg take Bernard back to Wales with him?


----------



## quimcunx (Jan 5, 2011)

11% of children run away from home at least once for at least one night by the time they are 16. Girls run away more often than boys. As someone said above.  Dog bites man.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> The runaway had two different surnames.  Maybe the police knew damn well where they would find her.  Maybe mum is a screaming chavvy harpy or a smack addict.  Maybe the family has a history.
> 
> The girl has turned up, as has Jo...


 jo?


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jan 5, 2011)

......errrrrr y'know, Jo _Yeates_, OU....


----------



## teccuk (Jan 5, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Oh, is Clifton Bristol's posh bit? I don't know Bristol much.


 
Holy heck. YES.

What of the sock 'development'?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

The sock is still at large


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2011)

and what a large sock it was.


----------



## teccuk (Jan 5, 2011)

Word on the news was it could of been the murder weapon. FFS. Don't know what's more awful, this poor, poor woman or the media circus.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 5, 2011)

If someone was stranged with a sock there would be 'burn' marks on their neck.  It would be plain that a sock was the cause of death.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> If someone was stranged with a sock there would be 'burn' marks on their neck.  It would be plain that a sock was the cause of death.


 
What is getting 'stranged'?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

teccuk said:


> Word on the news was it could of been the murder weapon. FFS. Don't know what's more awful, this poor, poor woman or the media circus.


 
Obviously the media circus is worse than someone being murdered.


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 5, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> It seems in this case the police and her parents assumed she had been murdered from the outset.




OK, i am adding speculation that is baseless beyond my opinion (i know some here hate that, sorry).  It did strike me as odd that there was such a strong assumption of abduction/we would be happier to just find her body e.t.c. so soon, only a few days after she hadn't made contact if i recall correctly.  I couldn't help but think at the time that there was more to this from the early days, maybe a note left in the flat or similar?  Even a well adjusted 25 yr old can disappear for a few days without word and you wouldn't assume abduction.  Sorry again for the speculation, but the seemingly confused state of the inquiry is something that gains attention, this isn't a normal case as far as i can tell.


----------



## teccuk (Jan 5, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Obviously the media circus is worse than someone being murdered.


 Give me a break. People are murdered every day. This, horrible case, gets 1000s of hours or repetitive sensationalist coverage. They're only covering it because it fits a narrow view of what news is. There's plenty worse going on. Fair?


----------



## beeboo (Jan 5, 2011)

teccuk said:


> Word on the news was it could of been the murder weapon. FFS. Don't know what's more awful, this poor, poor woman or the media circus.


 
Seems that the police are keen to keep it high profile whilst they're still trying gather evidence from the public.  But it hardly excuses destroying the reputation of an old man who hasn't even been charged with anything.  And there's a rumour that the police didn't want the missing sock stuff in the media but were forced to announce it as it'd been leaked to one of the tabloids.  Destroying a man is bad enough, potentially undermining the case is inexcusable.


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 5, 2011)

It does make you wonder what is really going on within the investigation, speculation again, but if an insider was found to be selling info to the media then that would be disgusting, much more so than intrigued posters pondering possibilities on a forum.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 5, 2011)

teccuk said:


> Give me a break. People are murdered every day. This, horrible case, gets 1000s of hours or repetitive sensationalist coverage. They're only covering it because it fits a narrow view of what news is. There's plenty worse going on. Fair?


 
Nope, news sources don't have an objective scale of "worstness" they use to determine what coverage they give to events. Information about events is freely available to you online, if you want to be spoon-fed news, assume it will fit someone else's agenda.


----------



## beeboo (Jan 5, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> OK, i am adding speculation that is baseless beyond my opinion (i know some here hate that, sorry).  It did strike me as odd that there was such a strong assumption of abduction/we would be happier to just find her body e.t.c. so soon, only a few days after she hadn't made contact if i recall correctly.  I couldn't help but think at the time that there was more to this from the early days, maybe a note left in the flat or similar?  Even a well adjusted 25 yr old can disappear for a few days without word and you wouldn't assume abduction.  Sorry again for the speculation, but the seemingly confused state of the inquiry is something that gains attention, this isn't a normal case as far as i can tell.



They were right though, she was dead.  Police obviously had enough info right from the start to expect the worst and start preparing the family for that eventuality.  Probably there's stuff that hasn't been reported which made them pretty certain, but even just on the basis of the information that's publically known, it's just not the kind of circumstances in which young women disappear and then turn up safe and well, sadly.


----------



## stowpirate (Jan 6, 2011)

Don't you think the media are running out of control? The Police as usual are fucking useless but some areas of the press are twisting the investigation into money spinning sensationalism. I was reading that some poor person caught on CCTV is the possible murderer and about to have their life ruined by the media before even being identified by the Police. Maybe it is time to gag the press and only allow transcripts of press conferences to be published? After the trial then allow a media free for all.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 6, 2011)

stowpirate said:


> Maybe it is time to gag the press


 
Yeah that works well in lots of countries, about time we tried it here. What can be worse than a media circus?


----------



## Yetman (Jan 6, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> If someone was stranged with a sock there would be 'burn' marks on their neck.  It would be plain that a sock was the cause of death.


 
You seem to know a lot about strangling people with socks.....  where were YOU that night eh?


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 6, 2011)

Stranged needs to be a word.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 6, 2011)

It's not 'the press' anymore than it was once 'the bankers'. It's overexcited - and usually too young - news editors berrating reporters to come up with something to continue the daily narrative.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 6, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> I wonder if a note was left in the flat, or some kind of scrawl indicating an abduction?  The parents begged for Jo 'back' in their first press conference, and then the body was located in not a too isolated location.  Maybe this is a random loon.


 


OneStrike said:


> OK, i am adding speculation that is baseless beyond my opinion (i know some here hate that, sorry).  It did strike me as odd that there was such a strong assumption of abduction/we would be happier to just find her body e.t.c. so soon, only a few days after she hadn't made contact if i recall correctly.  I couldn't help but think at the time that there was more to this from the early days, maybe a note left in the flat or similar?  Even a well adjusted 25 yr old can disappear for a few days without word and you wouldn't assume abduction.  Sorry again for the speculation, but the seemingly confused state of the inquiry is something that gains attention, this isn't a normal case as far as i can tell.



There must have been an obvious indication of a kidnapping.  That the bf did not notice this for the 4 hrs he was at home before reporting her missing to the police, then calling her parents is confusing.

I think they had a row on the Friday at some stage.  Joanna was taking her time to get home, even doubling back to Tesco when she was within a stones throw of her house.  Making sure when she got back Greg would be gone?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 6, 2011)

Presumably the lights etc would have been found left on when the b/f got home..

One odd thing that's arisen - I don't think in this thread - is that by all accounts all the mail for the block goes to the left hand door - previous residents said they would get home, drop their stuff, put the door on the latch -  then walk across the garden to collect their mail - in good weather maybe even without shoes - though that sounds unlikely given how horrendously cold it was.
Which may explain the police's interest with that side of the building.


----------



## DRINK? (Jan 6, 2011)

one sock missing.....hmmmm has Heather McCartney been questioned?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 6, 2011)

Another press conference tomorrow.  Wonder what has been leaked? (apart from Heather M-M being potentially in the frame...)


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 6, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Another press conference tomorrow.  Wonder what has been leaked? (apart from Heather M-M being potentially in the frame...)


 
can you account for your whereabouts in the second half of december?


----------



## Gerry1time (Jan 6, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> I think they had a row on the Friday at some stage.  Joanna was taking her time to get home, even doubling back to Tesco when she was within a stones throw of her house.  Making sure when she got back Greg would be gone?



Don't think she did really double back as such. She came down Boyces Avenue judging from the CCTV, then could either have turned right to go home or left to Tesco a couple of doors down. Why she'd get cider from Bargain Booze though (is that the former Baryah's?) rather than Tesco is anyone's guess though, I thought that place was a right rip off.


----------



## big eejit (Jan 6, 2011)

I heard something very interesting (if true) about this case yesterday. But I can't say, cos it's extremely libellous if not true!


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 6, 2011)

PM me


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 6, 2011)

i'll take that as a 'no' then.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 6, 2011)

So, has anything new come out in the last 24 hours? 

I think I gather that a sock is missing, and that it may have been used in the killing. 

I also think there may have been suggestion that the police are considering that there may be more than one killer, and that perhaps two people were seen following her in CCTV footage. 

Is that right, or am I just hearing rumours?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 6, 2011)

I think that's about it, plus the police are asking that people are patient in expecting a 'result'.  There has been some suggestion by the police that the missing sock may have been retained as a trophy, but they stress that it is only a theory.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 6, 2011)

Websleuths site is getting out of control in my opinion. They're practically going after her poor boyfriend with flaming torches and pitchforks because one of them has read ONE article on body language and has convinced the rest of them that he did it as he was blinking too fast (yes, that's right - BLINKING TOO FAST) in the televised press conference coverage.

Facepalmtastic.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 7, 2011)

Any updates?  3 weeks since she was last seen.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 7, 2011)

Yep, it's officially a circus with the public now trained by the media to expect daily 'updates' on what must by definition be a discrete enquiry.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 7, 2011)

I can't imagine they're going to keep up this level of press conferencing for much longer.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2011)

equationgirl said:


> Websleuths site is getting out of control in my opinion. They're practically going after her poor boyfriend with flaming torches and pitchforks because one of them has read ONE article on body language and has convinced the rest of them that he did it as he was blinking too fast (yes, that's right - BLINKING TOO FAST) in the televised press conference coverage.
> 
> Facepalmtastic.


i've not looked at that site, but people are doing plenty of baseless speculation on here too and then slagging others off for doing it with more imagination than them. facepalm indeed,


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 7, 2011)

I think this murder investigation is going to open a can of worms for some residents of Clifton.  All is not as it seems.


----------



## killer b (Jan 7, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> All is not as it seems.


 
a rosemary's baby-style satanic cult? or something more midwich cuckoos?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 7, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> The runaway had two different surnames.  Maybe the police knew damn well where they would find her.  Maybe mum is a screaming chavvy harpy or a smack addict.  Maybe the family has a history.
> 
> The girl has turned up, as has Jo...


oh do fuck off...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> I think this murder investigation is going to open a can of worms for some residents of Clifton.  All is not as it seems.


 oh shut up you curtaintwitching busybodied charismavaccuum


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 7, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> oh do fuck off...


 


Orang Utan said:


> oh shut up you curtaintwitching busybodied charismavaccuum


 
You two should move in together


----------



## IC3D (Jan 7, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> You two should move in together


 
It would be a very crowded house on that basis


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 7, 2011)

This thread feels like a 24 hour rolling news channel.

Are they still looking for a sock?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 7, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> This thread feels like a 24 hour rolling news channel.
> 
> Are they still looking for a sock?


 
They got it wrong. They're now looking for a suck.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 7, 2011)

I think it's great Bernie Clifton got something named after him. Top man.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 7, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> I think it's great Bernie Clifton got something named after him. Top man.


 
The Inn?


----------



## Geri (Jan 7, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> I think this murder investigation is going to open a can of worms for some residents of Clifton.  All is not as it seems.


 
Have you ever been there?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 7, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> i've not looked at that site, but people are doing plenty of baseless speculation on here too and then slagging others off for doing it with more imagination than them. facepalm indeed,


 
Anything I said yesterday pales in comparison with what's been written over the past day or so - 'baseless speculation' doesn't even being to cover it. I don't condone any speculation on this thread, but it's exceptionally tame when compared to what's on websleuths. I can only presume that the site is not based in the UK and therefore not subject to the same laws on press coverage of live cases.

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I wouldn't believe it...


----------



## weltweit (Jan 7, 2011)

Apparently tonight police are retracing her steps, interviewing people as they go. 

Perhaps someone will remember something that is of use. I hope so. 

It also seems they have not tried to keep up the frenetic revelations to the media in this last week. I think that is probably a good thing also.


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 7, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> I think this murder investigation is going to open a can of worms for some residents of Clifton.  All is not as it seems.


 This post deserves a massive


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

If it turns out to be a Facebook "friend", there may well be repercussions.

This reminds me I need to suspend even my empty account and create a new one.


----------



## Geri (Jan 8, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> If it turns out to be a Facebook "friend", there may well be repercussions.


 
Like what?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

Geri said:


> Like what?


 
That it's encouraged people to be much too open with information useful to others.

How many "friends" is it reasonable to trust ?


----------



## Geri (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't think that is a question reserved for the internet.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

Geri said:


> I don't think that is a question reserved for the internet.


 
There is that .. perhaps people's behaviour online just makes it more stark.

Modern social mores amaze me the more and more I learn about how normal people live ...


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2011)

Do you consider yourself outside of the sphere of 'normal people'?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

ernestolynch said:


> Do you consider yourself outside of the sphere of 'normal people'?


 
My observations tell me so, and people have told me that they see me that way. Hence my interest in the way the media have targeted the LL in this case (someone who actually has strong social connections)


----------



## Kanda (Jan 8, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> This post deserves a massive


 
Maybe not... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-registered-sex-offenders-lived-miles-Jo.html


----------



## Geri (Jan 8, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Maybe not... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-registered-sex-offenders-lived-miles-Jo.html



None of the hostels are "in" Clifton though - Heaven forbid.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 8, 2011)

Fucking great, to save money they let out violent nonces to roam the streets. TORY scum.


----------



## big eejit (Jan 8, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Maybe not... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-registered-sex-offenders-lived-miles-Jo.html


 
Very shoddy journalism by the Mail there. They forgot to mention the 100s of asylum seekers who also live within 3 miles of 'the home of murdered architect (sic) Jo Yeates'.


----------



## madzone (Jan 8, 2011)

'Convicted perverts'

 :facepalm


----------



## Geri (Jan 8, 2011)

The Bristol Evening Post is raising the possibility of a connection with the murder of Glenis Carruthers in 1974.

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/DID-KILL-GLENIS/article-3079127-detail/article.html


----------



## big eejit (Jan 8, 2011)

Geri said:


> The Bristol Evening Post is raising the possibility of a connection with the murder of Glenis Carruthers in 1974.
> 
> http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/DID-KILL-GLENIS/article-3079127-detail/article.html


 
THat relates to what I heard.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

Geri said:


> The Bristol Evening Post is raising the possibility of a connection with the murder of Glenis Carruthers in 1974.
> 
> http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/DID-KILL-GLENIS/article-3079127-detail/article.html


 
Carefully avoiding mentioning the bizarre familial connection...


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 8, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> Carefully avoiding mentioning the bizarre familial connection...


 
bizarre?


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> bizarre?


 
Well not really - it is, after all a relatively small world up there ...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 8, 2011)

What connection?


----------



## ymu (Jan 8, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> bizarre?


 
More like tenuous. A second cousin once removed of the woman that held the party that Glenys Carruthers disappeared from lives in the same block of flats as Jo Yeates. Wow. Person from local family lived locally.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 8, 2011)

First cousin once removed apparently ...


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 8, 2011)

I think it was either bad luck or good luck that Glenys was murdered in the area decades ago.  Either the perp was not aware and it is just a co-incidence (more likley) or it is the same killer (less likley).

Jo Yeates murder has all the hallmarks of a domestic murder by an intimate.


----------



## Geri (Jan 8, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> I think it was either bad luck or good luck that Glenys was murdered in the area decades ago.  Either the perp was not aware and it is just a co-incidence (more likley) or it is the same killer (less likley).


 
Bloody hell, you should have been a detective with insight like that.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 8, 2011)

Analysis is my middle name


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2011)

what's ilkley got to do with it?


----------



## Looby (Jan 9, 2011)

I had a look at that websleuth thread earlier. Bloody hell, that lot are fucking mental!

Theories-

Someone tried to rape her but was so disgusted she was on her period that they killed her.

Two blokes that live in the block did it. They went sledging last winter and look gay and are clearly perverts. Jo uncovered their paedo ways so they killed her.

The boyfriend paid someone to drive to sheffield with his phone and use his debit card so he could kill her.

These people are spending all day scouring the Internet, analysing every word for clues and cooking up crazy theories.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2011)

I did have a look at a couple of other threads on websleuths, and they seemed much less sensational and more analytical. 

My concerns with the websleuths thread are that the creative imaginings there will be regurgitated as facts by some less-than-scrupulous journalist.


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 9, 2011)

I reckon it is safe to say that most people like pizza. Maybe the landlord or someone else in the building wandered into her flat finding the door on the latch and her missing, and spied the pizza and pinched it. They wouldn't want to admit having been in there at all once they found out she was missing. Pizza could be bloody anywhere.


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 10, 2011)

So, there has been a bit more information released/leaked about her evening.  Again, this raises eyebrows but presumably the police have looked into things closely and ruled him out entirely.  Sorry for the source, i was tweeted it. 

Ms Yeates texted a friend to see if he wanted to meet up for a drink after leaving her friends in the pub.. 

Also, "... a letter mentioning Jo by name, together with a pizza label, was sent to the Bristol Ram pub shortly after her body was found on Christmas Day.

The A5 note, was written in black ink on lined paper ripped from a notepad, but included a fake address and telephone number.

It also contained a label torn from a pizza box, and mentioned different various pizza toppings"   Now that is creepy if nothing else, possibly tied in with what several criminologists suggested in their opinions, that the killer would find it impossible to not revisit the scene or somehow get involved with the investigation?  Probably just some idiot playing a sick prank?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...eates-friend-tells-of-text-message-agony.html


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 10, 2011)

Upchuck said:


> Analysis is my middle name


 
Did your mum stutter when she said 'Alice'?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 10, 2011)

Maybe this is a first in a set of Pizza Murders.

How many pizza toppings are there?

Margherita
Ham & Pineapple
Supreme
Pepperoni


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 10, 2011)

Meat feast


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 10, 2011)

"Toppings" is not an appropriate word for this thread


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> So, there has been a bit more information released/leaked about her evening.  Again, this raises eyebrows but presumably the police have looked into things closely and ruled him out entirely.  Sorry for the source, i was tweeted it.
> 
> Jo texted a friend to see if he wanted to meet up for a drink after leaving her friends in the pub..


 ms yeates to you


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 10, 2011)

You are quite right, post edited.


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 11, 2011)

no updates


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2011)




----------



## laptop (Jan 11, 2011)

I was rold this afternoon that conspiraloons in Bristol are promoting a "black magic" line.

Sick fucks.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 11, 2011)

Yes, that anti-semitic Green Party loon Tony Gosling.


----------



## laptop (Jan 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, that anti-semitic Green Party loon Tony Gosling.


 
Funny you should mention him  Apparently the cops "censored" his care-in-the-community-radio show. *Or* said to the BBC boss "no more of this tedious fuckwit's obsessions, please, we have enough headache". Which was it? Which side are you on?


----------



## Gerry1time (Jan 11, 2011)

I thought he only had a show on BCFM these days?


----------



## Upchuck (Jan 12, 2011)

any new developments?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2011)

There's been no new facts released or suspects arrested, if that's what you mean. I don't know if the papers have been printing more unfounded speculations though.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jan 13, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, that anti-semitic Green Party loon Tony Gosling.


 
that's the kicked out of the Greens for being an anti-semitic, homophobic fuckwit Tony Gosling I think you'll find.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 13, 2011)

Good gawd.

Aleister Crowley, secret tunnels, Masons ...

On his hideous, luminous green website he says he's out of a job.

It's clearly a conspiracy !!11!!


----------



## weltweit (Jan 15, 2011)

So hardly any new news in the last week. 

I wonder if they will find the killer at all.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 15, 2011)

lagtbd said:


> that's the kicked out of the Greens for being an anti-semitic, homophobic fuckwit Tony Gosling I think you'll find.


 
I know he was suspended afew years back but didn't realise he'd been expelled. Are you sure?


----------



## Chris P Duck (Jan 17, 2011)

Wow .. is this the worst article of all time... 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1347621/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Becoming-just-thumbnail-police-website.html

and the contempt it deserves ... 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/opinion/columnists/is-lovely-liz-becoming-just-another-thumbnail-on-the-daily-mail-website?-201101173437/


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 17, 2011)

You couldn't make it up.

http://newsthump.com/2011/01/17/liz...last-24-years-of-elizabeth-fritzls-captivity/


----------



## quimcunx (Jan 17, 2011)

Chris P Duck said:


> Wow .. is this the worst article of all time...
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1347621/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Becoming-just-thumbnail-police-website.html



So beautiful. So sad.  No pizza-aspirational pretty blonde should have to die near a waitrose after very ordinary wine.  



I'm beginning to think I don't like this Liz Jones woman.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 17, 2011)

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/73843...on-liz-jones-of-the-daily-mail-over-jo-yeates

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=liz+jones


----------



## Geri (Jan 17, 2011)

What a moron.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jan 18, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I know he was suspended afew years back but didn't realise he'd been expelled. Are you sure?


 
I checked. Technically he can reapply in a year or two and I suppose if he did there would then be a decision whether he should be allowed to rejoin - as an obvious fuckwit I would hope not (him, not me )


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Jan 18, 2011)

I don't see what's so terrible about that Daily Mail article. It reads as a space-filler, but nothing to get worked up about.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jan 18, 2011)

Dr Dolittle said:


> I don't see what's so terrible about that Daily Mail article. It reads as a space-filler, but nothing to get worked up about.


 
It's some of the worst "journalism" I've ever read.  Filler is fine, I guess, but sending Polly on a walk-through of a recently murdered persons last movements, who then proceeds to trivialise it with some of the most inane observations ever, is perhaps a distasteful and insensitive editing decision.  Jo Yeates family are still probably reading most of the press about this subject (wild speculation, but doesn't seem unlikely) - can you imagine what they would be thinking as they read that ridiculous story?


----------



## MysteryGuest (Jan 20, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12238262


----------



## yardbird (Jan 20, 2011)

MysteryGuest said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12238262


 
Let's bear in mind that this is only an arrest - not charged.


----------



## laptop (Jan 20, 2011)

yardbird said:


> Let's bear in mind that this is only an arrest - not charged.


 
Cop says, however:



> "*Proceedings are active* and you are all reminded of the Contempt of Court Act and therefore you will understand that we cannot discuss any more details at this stage."



A strict (and proper) interpretation of the Act, then.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jan 20, 2011)

a name of a guy is being floated around elsewhere on the web. claims he lived in same block of flats. all unverified.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 20, 2011)

yardbird said:


> Let's bear in mind that this is only an arrest - not charged.


 
Someone has been arrested, that may well be progress. Good.


----------



## strung out (Jan 20, 2011)

i wonder if there's anything weird about him we can draw unfounded conclusions from?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2011)

strung out said:


> i wonder if there's anything weird about him we can draw unfounded conclusions from?


 
He's a gas head i hear.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jan 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He's a gashead i hear.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 20, 2011)

strung out said:


> i wonder if there's anything weird about him we can draw unfounded conclusions from?


 
Oh there is.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jan 20, 2011)

strung out said:


> i wonder if there's anything weird about him we can draw unfounded conclusions from?


 
Apparently he looked at developing spaces within offices to aid movement and make the most of a building’s capacity.


----------



## strung out (Jan 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He's a gas head i hear.


 
i heard it's bristol city's louis carey


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 20, 2011)

Strangely the arrested suspect looks kind of normal.


----------



## strung out (Jan 20, 2011)

oh. it's not louis carey then.


----------



## i'mnotsofast (Jan 20, 2011)

strung out said:


> i wonder if there's anything weird about him we can draw unfounded conclusions from?


 
Well I just found his website.  The music might be significant for all you armchair detectives!!!

http://web.archive.org/web/20041122014656/www.vtabak.nl/indexflash.html


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 20, 2011)

Oh yes. I forgot about him.

I also forget why he would have been discounted ...


----------



## peterkro (Jan 20, 2011)

^^Guilty arf.(re the music)


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jan 20, 2011)

some tit set up a facebook profile in his name with her face as the avatar


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 20, 2011)

Throbbing Angel said:


> some tit set up a facebook profile in his name with her face as the avatar


 
That's quite funny actually.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jan 20, 2011)

debatable
http://imm.io/3gh7


----------



## weltweit (Jan 20, 2011)

From what I can gather, it may be someone who lives in the same block of flats. 

What did they say in that movie .. "what do killers do? they covet, they covet what they see"


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> That's quite funny actually.


 
I agree. It's hilarious.


----------



## i'mnotsofast (Jan 20, 2011)

Here's the legit one: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000478412484


----------



## laptop (Jan 20, 2011)

Alleged arrestee seems to have been a geek.


"Kept himself to himself" - dead cert
"Now I think of it, was a little odd" - 10:1 on
Played Dungeons & Dragons - 3:2 on


----------



## weltweit (Jan 20, 2011)

R4 have just named names. 

And they said there are two properties being forensically examined in Bristol.


----------



## Lakina (Jan 20, 2011)

Yeah, guilty.  Get the pitch forks.


----------



## laptop (Jan 20, 2011)

Done with a dodgy Flash animation in the Green Room.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 21, 2011)

Once again, the Mirror is leading the field. The guy was "quiet" and "serious-minded". He also has a girlfriend who bears an "uncanny resemblance to Jo" because she "has blonde hair".


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 21, 2011)

i'mnotsofast said:


> Here's the legit one: http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100000478412484


 
Only 54 friends...


----------



## weltweit (Jan 21, 2011)

Police have apparently applied for more time to question their suspect, and been granted it.


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 22, 2011)

The Sun is asking for acquaintances and friends of the new suspect to come forward so they can print  a load of shit about his "oddness and strange habits" etc I suppose


----------



## beeboo (Jan 22, 2011)

Chris P Duck said:


> Wow .. is this the worst article of all time...
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1347621/Joanna-Yeates-murder-Becoming-just-thumbnail-police-website.html



Dear god, even by Liz Jones standards, that is utterly moronic.


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 22, 2011)

beeboo said:


> Dear god, even by Liz Jones standards, that is utterly moronic.


The comments in favor of that pathetic piece of "journalism" are truly


----------



## beeboo (Jan 22, 2011)

The neighbour has been charged with her murder...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12257299


----------



## weltweit (Jan 23, 2011)

Let's hope they got the right person this time.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 24, 2011)

How many left in that house not yet arrested?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 24, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> How many left in that house not yet arrested?


 
It's Murder Inc.


----------



## pk (Mar 8, 2011)

Chris Jeffries released from police bail without charge.

Be nice to prune this thread now...


----------



## weltweit (Mar 8, 2011)

pk said:


> Chris Jeffries released from police bail without charge.
> 
> Be nice to prune this thread now...


 
Yes, they took their time with that didn't they, why wait so long I wonder?


----------



## gentlegreen (Mar 8, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Yes, they took their time with that didn't they, why wait so long I wonder?



Probably hoping to find some dirt on him so they didn't look so stupid ?

Shades of the Forest Gate botched raid ?


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 8, 2011)

Maybe they were busy threatening him not to sue them?


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 8, 2011)

The way this guys character was butchered in the public domain was fucking disgraceful,I wonder how much coverage the scum tabs will give this development then,it'll be the usual 3 line para buried in the inside pages I bet.


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 8, 2011)

Both the Wail and Scum are addressing him as Mr. Jeffries instead of 'Professor Strange' in today's editions of their rags and surprise surprise they're not allowing any comments about him being released from police bail being posted online either


----------



## pk (Mar 8, 2011)

He'll sue the. living. fuck. out of them.

Looking forward to it actually. Always good to see the Scum and the Wail grovelling.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 22, 2011)

pk said:


> He'll sue the. living. fuck. out of them.
> 
> Looking forward to it actually. Always good to see the Scum and the Wail grovelling.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13161170


----------



## weltweit (Apr 23, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13161170


 
I hope he gets a decent payout.


----------



## editor (Apr 23, 2011)

He deserves every fucking penny he can squeeze out of those tabloid fuckers. His life has been ruined.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 23, 2011)

The rich,famous and powerfull can get super-injunctions to keep their names out of the media,poor nobodies like Jefferies get thrown to the tabloid wolves.


----------



## OneStrike (Apr 23, 2011)

So true Gingerman, and the availability to justice will only get worse as the rights to tribunals e.t.c. are taken away from the poor.  At least anonymous workers for the press now release the details of these super-injunctions (Giggs you dirty cheating bastard (entirely my own thought)).


----------



## ymu (Apr 23, 2011)

Hope he gets enough to retire in luxury for the rest of his natural, being fed grapes by nubile, naked, young men and having journalists flogged for his amusement.


----------



## big eejit (May 5, 2011)

Vincent Tabak pleads not guilty to murder, guilty to manslaughter:

http://www.cliftonpeople.co.uk/grou...Tabak-pleads/story-11083309-detail/story.html


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 12, 2011)

Do we really need to see inside her flat?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15261783

Oh look, she left a hot water bottle on the sofa...thanks for that.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 13, 2011)

Not if you don't click on that link.


----------



## Geri (Oct 13, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Do we really need to see inside her flat?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15261783
> 
> Oh look, she left a hot water bottle on the sofa...thanks for that.


She had the same cat ornament as me. That made me feel sad.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 28, 2011)

Vincent Tabak has been found guilty of Murder.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15448121

Apparently he had been downloading porn which featured strangling.


----------



## quimcunx (Oct 28, 2011)

I hope there was more evidence than just that.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 28, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> I hope there was more evidence than just that.



He admitted manslaughter but denied murder.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 28, 2011)

He got 20 years, her parents said they wish there was the death penalty.


----------



## Lock&Light (Oct 28, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> I hope there was more evidence than just that.



That evidence was not shown to the jury.


----------



## Geri (Oct 28, 2011)

I didn't think there was any doubt that he would be found guilty of murder. I did wonder about his motive though, should have known he was just a scumbag. There is only his word that she even invited him in.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> I hope there was more evidence than just that.



He was a "loner" and "didn't have any friends" according to a former neighbour.

It's funny how after the conviction they just trot out that sort of shite of an article.


----------



## Lock&Light (Oct 28, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> He was a "loner" and "didn't have any friends" according to a former neighbour.
> 
> It's funny how after the conviction they just trot out that sort of shite of an article.



No-one was allowed to publish those things before the conviction. It would have been contempt of court.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2011)

Lock&Light said:


> No-one was allowed to publish those things before the conviction. It would have been contempt of court.



It's like they have some random libel/hearsay tosh on file ready to be published the second the jury return the murder verdict.


----------



## trashpony (Oct 28, 2011)

His 'I held her round the throat to stop her screaming' line was piss poor. there is no way he would have been convicted of manslaughter rather than murder


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, it took the jury this long - was it two or three days? - for some reason, or reasons.



Lock&Light said:


> That evidence was not shown to the jury.


You'd fucking hope not, as well.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

Geri said:


> There is only his word that she even invited him in.


That didn't ring true at all. They'd never met, like you'd invite a stranger in when you were on your own? Yeah right.


----------



## Lock&Light (Oct 28, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> You'd fucking hope not, as well.



The judge had to declare that evidence as inadmissable, while the prosecution really wanted it used.


----------



## trashpony (Oct 28, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Well, it took the jury this long - was it two or three days? - for some reason, or reasons.
> 
> You'd fucking hope not, as well.


He did seem fairly convinced that strangling someone is a fairly normal way to stop someone from screaming  so maybe some of them believed that
I'm glad it took them a long time - fast verdicts always seem a bit dodgy


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> That didn't ring true at all. They'd never met, like you'd invite a stranger in when you were on your own? Yeah right.


Did that ring true as well (that they'd never met)?

He killed someone he'd never met - ok.
They lived in the same house - ok.

If you're going to kill someone you've never met before would you really do it in the next door flat.....


----------



## Geri (Oct 28, 2011)

I think he must have been stalking her.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm glad this evil fuck is behind bars for the next 20+ years.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Did that ring true as well (that they'd never met)?


 I lived in an old Victorian house converted to flats years ago and I never met my neighbours because the entrances were not through the same door. I think it's easily possible that people in multiple occupancy conversions in a city don't know each other.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 28, 2011)

That's not quite my point though.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

What did you mean then? Sorry, re-read your post and can't get what else you might have meant.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 28, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Well, it took the jury this long - was it two or three days? - for some reason, or reasons.



Sorry, are you saying that this is some sort of dodgy conviction? That the jury just did this because...whyser-who-what?

His story didn't add up. "Oh, I just kind of found myself strangling someone till she stopped screaming, then carried on until she passed out, then until she died". Uhhh, BULLSHIT!! End of.

A lot of evidence to consider. 2 days? Fuck all in the scheme of things, with a trial well over a week long. Just means they are discussing each piece of evidence properly.


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 28, 2011)

trashpony said:


> His 'I held her round the throat to stop her screaming' line was piss poor. there is no way he would have been convicted of manslaughter rather than murder



He said he held her throat for 20 seconds - if you imagine him throttling her and count the 20 seconds, it's actually a fucking long time. Trying to stop her screaming?? Blatantly he killed her deliberately. Bang to rights, the evil cunt.


----------



## jesuscrept (Oct 28, 2011)

trashpony said:


> I'm glad it took them a long time - fast verdicts always seem a bit dodgy



They probably decided he was guilty in ten minutes, but decided to drag it out until Friday afternoon. Just in time to go to Wetherspoons for food and booze.


----------



## jesuscrept (Oct 28, 2011)

He was never going to be found not guilty of murder with all the media attention.


----------



## DJ Squelch (Oct 28, 2011)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/joanna-yeates-killer-confessed-to-chaplain-2372235.html


> Tabak's and another unidentified person's DNA was also found on Miss Yeates's jeans - behind her knees - which would have been consistent with Tabak carrying her body, the court was told.
> 
> Ms Lennen said the statistical interpretation of the results from Miss Yeates's jeans showed that it was 1,100 times more likely that the DNA was from Vincent Tabak and another person, rather than two unknown people unrelated to the defendant.



Does this mean someone else helped him carry the body or was it just that he had someone elses DNA on his hands when he carried her body? Why was this other person not identified from the DNA?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> He said he held her throat for 20 seconds - if you imagine him throttling her and count the 20 seconds, it's actually a fucking long time. Trying to stop her screaming?? Blatantly he killed her deliberately. Bang to rights, the evil cunt.


20 seconds compression isn't long enough to kill someone, it takes longer than that. I say this as a victim of an attempted strangling who is still here to tell the tale. I didn't even pass out and he had his hands round my neck for longer than that and was bashing my head against the wall.


----------



## strung out (Oct 28, 2011)

it was a majority verdict btw, not unanimous. there was obviously enough doubt in the minds of two jurors to go for not guilty. from my limited knowledge of the trial though, it looks like guilty was the correct decision.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> 20 seconds compression isn't long enough to kill someone, it takes longer than that. I say this as a victim of an attempted strangling who is still here to tell the tale. I didn't even pass out and he had his hands round my neck for longer than that and was bashing my head against the wall.



I've wondered about this.  20 seconds did seem a stupidly short amount of time.  Did the prosecution try to undermine the suggestion that this would be enough time to kill someone?  I mean as in "forensically, it would be impossible to strangle someone to death in this amount of time - the minimum time to die purely from lack of breath is X minutes..."

Not doubting that "accidental strangulation" is bullshit (see above) - but is there anything that would make the defendants lie seem even slightly believable?


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> 20 seconds compression isn't long enough to kill someone, it takes longer than that. I say this as a victim of an attempted strangling who is still here to tell the tale. I didn't even pass out and he had his hands round my neck for longer than that and was bashing my head against the wall.



 I'm glad you're still with us MM!! My point really is that 20 seconds is much longer than it sounds iyswim.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

Luckily there were other people in the house and I managed to rip the blokes beard out of his chin, he relaxed his grip and I bellowed for help, which came quickly.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

To be honest if I'd been on the floor, rather than pinned against a wall, I don't think I'd be typing this now.


----------



## Looby (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> 20 seconds compression isn't long enough to kill someone, it takes longer than that. I say this as a victim of an attempted strangling who is still here to tell the tale. I didn't even pass out and he had his hands round my neck for longer than that and was bashing my head against the wall.



Both the prosecution and defence pathologists agreed that she was killed in a fairly short time (probably less than 30 seconds). She died of heart failure rather than suffocation.

From what I read this afternoon, there was clarification sought about intent from the jurors, the judge then later said he would accept majority verdict so maybe the jurors that were confused are the ones that went for not guilty.

I'm slightly confused why the strangulation porn thing was not allowed as evidence but clearly I'm no legal expert.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

sparklefish said:


> I'm slightly confused why the strangulation porn thing was not allowed as evidence but clearly I'm no legal expert.


Because he downloaded it after he killed her, not before.


----------



## jesuscrept (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Because he downloaded it after he killed her, not before.



That wasn't made clear in the BBC report, and no doubt won't be made clear in the red tops.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

I heard it it on the BBC, but the radio tends to give more info as it doesn't faff around with pictures.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

The point was that the prosecution wanted to make a big thing of the sexual motive and use the violent porn angle but the judge ruled it was inadmissible because it was downloaded after the murder.


----------



## jesuscrept (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> The point was that the prosecution wanted to make a big thing of the sexual motive and use the violent porn angle but the judge ruled it was inadmissible because it was downloaded after the murder.



You have to really wonder though if this case hadn't being given so much coverage would Tabak have being found guilty, or even if the CPS would have proceeded with the murder charge.


----------



## Looby (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Because he downloaded it after he killed her, not before.



Ah right, none of the news reports have said that!


----------



## Geri (Oct 28, 2011)

According to the Telegraph report, he visited one of the sites on the morning of the day he killed her.



> Experts were also able to show that Tabak logged onto a pornographic website on the morning of December 17, the day he murdered Miss Yeates.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...fetish-after-watching-violent-porn-films.html


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

He admitted killing her and I think the CPS would have still tried to prosecute for murder even if it hadn't made more than the local paper. You don't inflict that many injuries by accident or without realising that they could cause death.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 28, 2011)

sparklefish said:


> Ah right, none of the news reports have said that!



That's because it's not correct - on either the grounds for the ruling or the chronology. It was ruled inadmissible on these grounds:



> But at the start of the trial Mr Justice Field ruled the evidence inadmissible, saying: "In my judgment the watching and the possession of porn showing violence and the threat of violence is reprehensible conduct. But the fact there could be a sexual motive does not explain why Tabak intended to kill or cause serious injury. In my judgment a fair trial would be put seriously at risk if it was to be admitted."


----------



## Looby (Oct 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That's because it's not correct - on either the grounds for the ruling or the chronology. It was ruled inadmissible on these grounds:



Cheers.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

Ah right, Radio 4 got it wrong!


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Oct 28, 2011)

Even if it's true that he put his hands around her neck to stop her screaming, common sense tells you that you risk killing someone doing that. As soon as I heard that excuse, I thought, "bullshit." I think Ian Huntley (the Soham murderer who killed the two little girls) tried a similar excuse, and it was obvious then, too, that he was clutching at straws.

I suspect Tabak is psychotic. I can't imagine any mentally normal person doing what he did.


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Oct 28, 2011)

Anyway, if you want to stop someone screaming, you put your hand over their mouth, not round their neck.


----------



## Serotonin (Oct 28, 2011)

I doubt hes psychotic. Im sure his girlfriend would have noticed if he had a psychotic illness. Plus the defence would have played up the lack of culpability if he had an untreated psychotic illness.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Oct 28, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> I doubt hes psychotic. Im sure his girlfriend would have noticed if he had a psychotic illness. Plus the defence would have played up the lack of culpability if he had an untreated psychotic illness.


gosh, you know an awful lot.


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 28, 2011)

"We got it wrong. Christopher Jeffries is an innocent man. Our actions towards him in dissecting every aspect of his life when no charges had ever been brought against him was shameless sensationalism of the worst kind and we apologise unreservedly to him".......... what you wont be reading on the front cover of the Mail,Sun etc tomorrow


----------



## story (Oct 28, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> The point was that the prosecution wanted to make a big thing of the sexual motive and use the violent porn angle but the judge ruled it was inadmissible because it was downloaded after the murder.


 
I thought it was because the defence was pleading manslaughter i.e. no intent. Some kind of sexual motive, whether or not the porn was downloaded after the fact, would indicate malice aforethought i.e. murder, which was outside the remit of the trial.

But that's just what it seemed like to me. No law knowledge here at all.


----------



## story (Oct 28, 2011)

Dr Dolittle said:


> I suspect Tabak is psychotic. I can't imagine any mentally normal person doing what he did.


 
Like Shipman, you mean?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

story said:


> I thought it was because the defence was pleading manslaughter i.e. no intent. Some kind of sexual motive, whether or not the porn was downloaded after the fact, would indicate malice aforethought i.e. murder, which was outside the remit of the trial.
> 
> But that's just what it seemed like to me. No law knowledge here at all.


Well, it appears Radio 4 got that bit wrong, so what I thought wasn't right


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 28, 2011)

....apparently the lawyers wanted the porn thing to be kept quiet after the trial too....
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/media-win-legal-bid-on-tabak-porn-2377177.html


----------



## Serotonin (Oct 29, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> gosh, you know an awful lot.



I know a reasonable bit about psychosis funnily enough.

People tend to misuse the word psychotic when in fact they mean psychopathic. I just don't think it's helpful describing people who do terrible things as psychotic. People with mental health problems face enough prejudice and misunderstanding.

If Tabak had a psychotic illness why wasnt that played up by the defence? They were already claiming manslaughter, it would have been the best defence for him.

Did Tabak have an underlying antisocial (psychopathic in old terminology) personality disorder? Possibly I guess, but none of us here could make that diagnosis. And even if he did that would not usually be seen as a mitigating factor.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 29, 2011)

Tabak on finding out his sentence, apparently.  Yeah mate, massive, massive facepalm...


----------



## Geri (Oct 29, 2011)

I wrote to a man for years who was on death row in San Quentin for raping and murdering four women (also by strangulation). I had no idea of his crimes until years later (he lied to me at the outset) but he was utterly charming and "normal" in his letters - he knew I was left wing and I think he tailored his letters to suit that, talking about Noam Chomsky and other things that would make him appealling to me (Eastenders, X Files etc). I was in shock when I found out the truth, and also very angry with myself for being taken in. Very manipulative, and Tabak comes across in the same way.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> I wrote to a man for years who was on death row in San Quentin for raping and murdering four women (also by strangulation). I had no idea of his crimes until years later (he lied to me at the outset) but he was utterly charming and "normal" in his letters - he knew I was left wing and I think he tailored his letters to suit that, talking about Noam Chomsky and other things that would make him appealling to me (Eastenders, X Files etc). I was in shock when I found out the truth, and also very angry with myself for being taken in. Very manipulative, and Tabak comes across in the same way.



, but how could you have known he was a murderer?  The idea that it should be obvious someones a psycho is a bit of a myth.  In fact, the superficial charm, hiding their true amoral nature, is well known as one of the defining features of a true psychopath.

Did he get executed?  What were his last words?


----------



## Geri (Oct 29, 2011)

Jon-of-arc said:


> , but how could you have known he was a murderer?  The idea that it should be obvious someones a psycho is a bit of a myth.  In fact, the superficial charm, hiding their true amoral nature, is well known as one of the defining features of a true psychopath.
> 
> Did he get executed?  What were his last words?



Well, I knew he was a convicted murderer as he was on Death Row. He told me someone had been shot in a drug deal which went wrong, and he got the blame. Of course I was sceptical about his alleged innocence, but I had no reason to disbelieve the whole story and this was in 1994 before I had access to the internet and being able to check things.  It wasn't until we were watching a programme about San Quentin, where he is, that butchers Googled his name and found articles about him.

He hasn't been executed yet, he has dragged it out with numerous appeals. His name is Dean Carter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Carter


----------



## Serotonin (Oct 29, 2011)

That's pretty fucked up geri. I bet it was a freak out to find out what he really did. Did you write to him after you found out the truth?


----------



## Geri (Oct 29, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> That's pretty fucked up geri. I bet it was a freak out to find out what he really did. Did you write to him after you found out the truth?



No, haven't had anything to do with him since I found out. My sister still writes to him, she told him I knew what he had done and he offered to write to me and explain but I didn't really see the point. He hasn't ever shown any remorse, and those are the kind of crimes I could never make allowances for. All I can think about are his victims and their families.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 29, 2011)

The police are saying they want to look closer at Tabak because they don't think this was his first crime...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15503747


----------



## weltweit (Oct 29, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> The police are saying they want to look closer at Tabak because they don't think this was his first crime...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15503747



Interesting. But it was a pretty stupid crime to kill on his own doorstep, in the very same house in which he lived. I am not convinced he may be a criminal mastermind.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 29, 2011)

I think he is one of those clever people who thinks he's so clever he's invincible, it's a sort of overweening vanity, which was his downfall.


----------



## Looby (Oct 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> I wrote to a man for years who was on death row in San Quentin for raping and murdering four women (also by strangulation). I had no idea of his crimes until years later (he lied to me at the outset) but he was utterly charming and "normal" in his letters - he knew I was left wing and I think he tailored his letters to suit that, talking about Noam Chomsky and other things that would make him appealling to me (Eastenders, X Files etc). I was in shock when I found out the truth, and also very angry with myself for being taken in. Very manipulative, and Tabak comes across in the same way.



If you don't mind me asking, what made you decide to write to him in the first place? I'm not being rude, I've just never really got it.


----------



## Geri (Oct 29, 2011)

sparklefish said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what made you decide to write to him in the first place? I'm not being rude, I've just never really got it.



He wrote to me - I was ill at the time (M.E.) and because I didn't go out much, I decided to get some penfriends. I put an advert in an American paper, and he was one of the people who replied. His first letter wasn't sent from the prison as he got a friend to post it. He did tell me when I wrote back, and said if I didn't want to carry on writing he would understand, but he sounded interesting so I thought I would carry on.


----------



## Looby (Oct 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> He wrote to me - I was ill at the time (M.E.) and because I didn't go out much, I decided to get some penfriends. I put an advert in an American paper, and he was one of the people who replied. His first letter wasn't sent from the prison as he got a friend to post it. He did tell me when I wrote back, and said if I didn't want to carry on writing he would understand, but he sounded interesting so I thought I would carry on.



Ah right, cheers. I had guessed you weren't looking for a husband but though I'd ask. : D


----------



## story (Oct 29, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> The police are saying they want to look closer at Tabak because they don't think this was his first crime...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15503747



I wondered about this.

Seems an inconceivably huge leap, to go from no criminal or aberrant behaviour to strangling a woman and then hiding the body.

My brother is a forensic psychologist; he has told me in the past that even the most "normal" murderers have some secrets that they are keeping, and that they tend to travel in steps towards their first murder.


----------



## Edie (Oct 29, 2011)

What kind of steps story? This whole thing is terrifying. RIP Jo x


----------



## story (Oct 29, 2011)

The classic is torturing animals in childhood, Edie.

But even if it's nothing that horrible, apparently there will be um... well, red flags, I suppose. Examples of behaviour that indicate lack of appreciation for the other person, taking pleasure at the expense of others, being cruel in a detached way, testing people to see what they do or how they react.

Do it once or twice and get away with it, and the tendency can escalate.

I'm certainly no expert, just had some interesting conversations about this stuff with my brother.

I wondered if Tabak likes suffocation games during sex. Which is NOT the same thing as suggesting that breath play makes you a potential killer.


----------



## Maltin (Oct 29, 2011)

story said:


> I wondered about this.
> 
> Seems an inconceivably huge leap, to go from no criminal or aberrant behaviour to strangling a woman and then hiding the body.
> 
> My brother is a forensic psychologist; he has told me in the past that even the most "normal" murderers have some secrets that they are keeping, and that they tend to travel in steps towards their first murder.


Not wanting to come across as a murder, but I imagine that most people have "some secrets that they are keeping" that in a criminal court probably look bad, especially when one looks at someone internet history without explanation.


----------



## Geri (Oct 29, 2011)

sparklefish said:


> Ah right, cheers. I had guessed you weren't looking for a husband but though I'd ask. : D



LOL, no. He had plenty of other women for that though!


----------



## story (Oct 29, 2011)

Maltin said:


> Not wanting to come across as a murder, but I imagine that most people have "some secrets that they are keeping" that in a criminal court probably look bad, especially when one looks at someone internet history without explanation.



Yes, that is true, of course it is true.


----------



## Edie (Oct 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> LOL, no. He had plenty of other women for that though!


Yuk. Can't understand why women enjoy writing to convicted killers.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 29, 2011)

Edie said:


> Yuk. Can't understand why women enjoy writing to convicted killers.


Some women do it because it's 'safe'. An intense relationship that involves no sex. Having said that I wrote to a (wrongly) convicted man for years and it was just because I knew his conviction was unsafe and wanted to encourage him in his fight for the case being re-opened, which eventually it was and he was completely exonerated.


----------



## Edie (Oct 29, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Some women do it because it's 'safe'. An intense relationship that involves no sex. Having said that I wrote to a (wrongly) convicted man for years and it was just because I knew his conviction was unsafe and wanted to encourage him in his fight for the case being re-opened, which eventually it was and he was completely exonerated.


That's an amazing story. How did you know the conviction was unsafe?

Geri, how did you get started on the letter writing thing?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 29, 2011)

Edie said:


> That's an amazing story. How did you know the conviction was unsafe?


Because the evidence was so flimsy. It is still considered one of the worst ever miscarriages of justice with the biggest non-disclosure of statements (over 200) to the defence. The victim was tortured to death and yet the man I was writing to was taking his truanting sister back to school shortly after the murder on the other side of Liverpool. Her headmaster was never called as a witness, even though he went to the trial and was willing to appear. Even the victim's father had doubts about the conviction.


----------



## Edie (Oct 29, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Because the evidence was so flimsy. It is still considered one of the worst ever miscarriages of justice with the biggest non-disclosure of statements (over 200) to the defence. The victim was tortured to death and yet the man I was writing to was taking his truanting sister back to school shortly after the murder on the other side of Liverpool. Her headmaster was never called as a witness, even though he went to the trial and was willing to appear. Even the victim's father had doubts about the conviction.


Blimey. It's selfish but I try and stay away from the dark side of news and human nature or it gives me the proper fear. How'd you get involved in that, did you know him?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 29, 2011)

No, I'd just heard about the case and it made me angry, primarily because it was such an awful murder and convicting the wrong man meant no justice for the victim and his family.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Oct 29, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> The police are saying they want to look closer at Tabak because they don't think this was his first crime...
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15503747


they're bound to say that cos they were so rubbish at catching him in the first place.


----------



## laptop (Oct 30, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> People tend to misuse the word psychotic when in fact they mean psychopathic.



This.

Psychosis may involve imagining people are lizards in disguise, or _seeing_ them as lizards...

Psychopathy would involve not caring _what_ they are when doing them harm.


----------



## aylee (Nov 1, 2011)

Some refreshingly thoughtful comments here by the family of Ms Yeates and others associated with the case, as well as a Tory MP , on the decision by the trial judge not to permit the prosecution to adduce evidence of Tabak's use of violent porn and prostitutes while on a business trip.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15522185

The tabloids were in a frenzy at the weekend as to the non-admission of the evidence.  Never mind its evidential value, just allow people to convict because they disapprove of the defendant's private life and tastes in pornography. 

There might be a valid debate as to whether use of violent porn (particularly women being strangled) was probative, but how the living fuck can using prostitutes prove a tendency to murder?  What was the prosecutor thinking??


----------



## London_Calling (Nov 1, 2011)

The prosecutor's job is to do their very best to prove guilt, they are not in the business of fairness. That's - rightfully - the judges role. Everyone playes their own very distinct part.

Almost the entire media is like a mob of pitchfork and torch weilding cunts on any issue that involves law.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 1, 2011)

Child porn found on Vincent Tabak's laptop





> Images of children being abused have been discovered on a computer used by Vincent Tabak, it has emerged.
> 
> Police have passed on details to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) asking if officers should question Tabak in prison over the material.


----------



## London_Calling (Nov 1, 2011)

Curious language ".. used by". No mention of credit cards so we're left not knowing whether he actively downloaded images or whether they automatically went in the computer cache as a result of viewing pages.... An offence either way, of course.


----------



## Ms T (Nov 1, 2011)

story said:


> I wondered about this.
> 
> Seems an inconceivably huge leap, to go from no criminal or aberrant behaviour to strangling a woman and then hiding the body.
> 
> My brother is a forensic psychologist; he has told me in the past that even the most "normal" murderers have some secrets that they are keeping, and that they tend to travel in steps towards their first murder.



Yes, it's very unusual to go from nothing to murder, afaik.  I do feel sorry for his ex-girlfriend.


----------



## weltweit (Nov 2, 2011)

The landlord of Jo Yeates has said he is reaching the point where he can get on with his life again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15551619


----------



## OneStrike (Nov 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> The landlord of Jo Yeates has said he is reaching the point where he can get on with his life again.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-15551619



good for him, if it wasn't for his successful litigation i imagine some newsrooms would have speculated the child porn on the murderers laptop was accessed by 'the blue haired landlord'.  I hope he enjoys his unwanted windfall.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 5, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Curious language ".. used by". No mention of credit cards so we're left not knowing whether he actively downloaded images or whether they automatically went in the computer cache as a result of viewing pages.... An offence either way, of course.


Could be a work computer - apparently in the course of the investigation 4 computers he had accesss to were examined by police computer specialists.

The child porn angle bothers me slightly (apart from the obvious heinous nature of it of course) from a psychopathology angle - is someone with a sexual fetish involving strangling grown women capable of being attracted in a sexual manner to children? I've probably worded that very badly but isn't the psych aspect of both sexual 'attraction' completely different? It just doesn't seem right to me - I half wondered if he was trying to set the groundwork for another defence (i.e. he couldn't have killed Jo because he was a paedophile and therefore not attracted to women) because there weren't very many images and they were the most serious kind.


----------



## Serotonin (Nov 5, 2011)

Its all about power I guess?


----------

