# Britain First



## nicedream (May 11, 2014)

There seem to be a lot of supporters popping up, especially on facebook - i'm hoping it's simply  ignorance, and that people don't realise that they are a bunch of racist morons...


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## FridgeMagnet (May 11, 2014)

Sorry, I think it's just that your Facebook friends are twats


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## savoloysam (May 11, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Sorry, I think it's just that your Facebook friends are twats



QFT. I don't see any of this stuff. The first sign of any this shit and they are off my already limited friend list.


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## Lord Camomile (May 11, 2014)

No, please, after you.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (May 11, 2014)

I don't think there's many more of them than there ever were, but they seem to have a better social media operation than they did. That can be fluke though. I sometimes do blog pieces. They get anywhere from 40 to 1000 hits with little rhyme or reason to it, I can't see a link to quality for example, good or bad.


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## nicedream (May 11, 2014)

savoloysam said:


> QFT. I don't see any of this stuff. The first sign of any this shit and they are off my already limited friend list.


 some people are just in a daily mail bubble and have no idea... a couple are people i have to do my voluntary work with... can't really delete, not yet anyway.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 11, 2014)

nicedream said:


> some people are just in a daily mail bubble and have no idea... a couple are people i have to do my voluntary work with... can't really delete, not yet anyway.


You can always delete people from Facebook.


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## nicedream (May 11, 2014)

I can indded.  I prefer to point out the facts and post articles which may make people think.


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## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

couldn't the entire membership of britain first fit comfortably into the gents at the coronet on holloway road?


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## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

Give it a rest ffs you lot. We are not stupid.


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## paninaro (May 11, 2014)

I'm sick of seeing morons share their stuff also.


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## freeme (May 11, 2014)

paninaro said:


> I'm sick of seeing morons share their stuff also.



This the post that got me banned?

Odd, was banned shortly after making this.


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## Sirena (May 11, 2014)

Britain First are getting a lot of Facebook support with their petition against Halal slaughter.


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## nicedream (May 11, 2014)

They  posted stuff about 'baby P'  and people reposted it... It's stuff like this which makes people think they're reasonable human beings :/


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## brogdale (May 11, 2014)

Sirena said:


> Britain First are getting a lot of Facebook support with their petition against Halal slaughter.



Seriously? A petition against Halal slaughter? What, to outlaw it?


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## maybe dave (May 11, 2014)

They were trying to organise a protest outside subway shops the other day


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## mr steev (May 11, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> couldn't the entire membership of britain first fit comfortably into the gents at the coronet on holloway road?



They reckon the have hundreds of ex-servicemen street activists and armoured landrovers that they are apparently going to 'deploy' to protect ukip 

http://w w w. britainfirst .org/news/britain-first-to-deploy-armoured-patrol-vehicles-and-ex-military-volunteers-to-protect-ukip-leader-nigel-farage/

There's talk on their facebook page of 'invading' mosques in the North West and Scotland and continuing the crusades


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## Sirena (May 11, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Seriously? A petition against Halal slaughter? What, to outlaw it?


I can't find it now.  It's coming from an Animal Welfare position, saying that, as Britain is not a muslim country, we should not allow Halal slaughter.

It's curious.  About 4 or 5 of my FB friends find sympathy with Britain First (I don't define myself or my friends by their politics) and the Britain First FB site has been well busy today and there's been poisonous stuff flying all over Facebook.


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## brogdale (May 11, 2014)

Sirena said:


> *"It's coming from an Animal Welfare position..."*





Is Facebook impossible to switch off?


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## Sirena (May 11, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Is Facebook impossible to switch off?


It's been cold out, so I've spent most of the day inside doodling around on Facebook and having arguments...


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## ska invita (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I can't find it now.  It's coming from an Animal Welfare position, saying that, as Britain is not a muslim country, we should not allow Halal slaughter.


pretty sure ive heard the anti-halal thing from certain animal rights peeps over the years


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## J Ed (May 12, 2014)

This is really weird stuff, there seems to be a lot of emphasis on the Christianity thing, more so than any British far-right movement in recent years.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...bles-outside-mosques-in-bradford-9352271.html



> Far right activists have targeted mosques in Bradford attempting to hand out Bibles and distribute leaflets accusing community elders of failing to stop grooming gangs.
> 
> It is believed members of Britain First, some wearing uniforms, staged the protests at 10 places of worship in the city centre. The group posted images of themselves on Facebook confronting members of the Asian community.


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## Red Storm (May 12, 2014)

Britain First "invaded" mosques in Braford and then the local Labour Party office

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...bles-outside-mosques-in-bradford-9352271.html


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2014)

George needs a bit of that over the next year.


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## Dogsauce (May 12, 2014)

The Halal stuff has been knocking about for years - the EDL/NWI were all over KFC about this for a while. A couple of misleading sensationalised front page stories and the far-right get to stage a recruiting drive.

Any reason the press are running with this at the moment, or does anyone know if it started out on Facebook, got a bit of attention and they picked it up from there?


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## Awesome Wells (May 12, 2014)

Using bibles as an attempt to persuade people away from mistreating women and children? Oh lordy!


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## Fozzie Bear (May 12, 2014)

nicedream said:


> They  posted stuff about 'baby P'  and people reposted it... It's stuff like this which makes people think they're reasonable human beings :/


 
Curious, as Jason Owen who was convicted of the killing of Baby P was a member of the National Front.


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## CNT36 (May 12, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't think there's many more of them than there ever were, but they seem to have a better social media operation than they did. That can be fluke though.


Its money. All the sponsored posts. The reason so many people are sharing this shit is it is turning up in everyone's feed. Posts along the lines of "Isn't it sad some cunts killed a drummer" and "this kids dead aren't the parents who did it shit" are the ones most of my "friends" seem to be sharing quite possibly without looking into the politics. The halal ones and the "oh noes this foreign person did a foreign crime here in what to them is a foreign country but got a medal for it because they're foreign but marines go to orison because they're not foreign" get a few shares. Someone I went to college with reposts all the Rigby grief porn, possibly because her son is in the army or some such, didn't respond when I mentioned that the Rigby family have spoken out against far right groups and got into a dispute with/about Britain First using his name as a vote winner on polling cards. I have been getting constant sponsored posts from them perhaps because I've visited "political pages". Must be costing Dowson a fortune.


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## DotCommunist (May 12, 2014)

> It is believed members of Britain First, some wearing uniforms,



pretty sure wearing political uniforms can get you a nicking, still


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> pretty sure wearing political uniforms can get you a nicking, still


Depends what you're doing. The wearing of them alone is not an offence.


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

I can't help but think that Britain First are not who they seem to be.


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## likesfish (May 12, 2014)

Armoured landrovers they are having a laugh and hundreds of followers seems to be a mirror image  of chourdarys mob couple of dozen nutters making a lot of noise.
 The uniform seems to be a windcheater and a flat cap


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## DrRingDing (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I can't help but think that Britain First are not who they seem to be.



What a bunch of nasty plonkers in cheap anoraks with dad issues sponsored by some Protestant loon?


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## DotCommunist (May 12, 2014)

likesfish said:


> Armoured landrovers they are having a laugh and hundreds of followers seems to be a mirror image  of chourdarys mob couple of dozen nutters making a lot of noise.
> The uniform seems to be a windcheater and a flat cap



with a natty tudor rose on the breast


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

DrRingDing said:


> What a bunch of nasty plonkers in cheap anoraks with dad issues sponsored by some Protestant loon?


I get the sneaking feeling that the protestant loon is being funded by someone....


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I get the sneaking feeling that the protestant loon is being funded by someone....


Why? He's rolling in it.


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## Greebo (May 12, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Why? He's rolling in it.


But if somebody offers you money to do something you were more or less inclined to do anyway, would it be better to accept that payment?


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2014)

Greebo said:


> But if somebody offers you money to do something you were more or less inclined to do anyway, would it be better to accept that payment?


Depends on the conditions i suppose. Possible in this case. Also, maybe not 

The urge to see something behind everything is not a politically healthy one though.


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## DotCommunist (May 12, 2014)

a quick wiki shows they were involved in the whole fleg debacle in NI


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I can't find it now.  It's coming from an Animal Welfare position, saying that, as Britain is not a muslim country, we should not allow Halal slaughter.
> 
> It's curious.  About 4 or 5 of my FB friends find sympathy with Britain First (I don't define myself or my friends by their politics) and the Britain First FB site has been well busy today and there's been poisonous stuff flying all over Facebook.


so you have racist friends?


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## Greebo (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> so you have racist friends?


Some people have friends and other contacts who are more fuckwitted than outrightly or deliberately racist.


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> so you have racist friends?


Don't look at the facebook friends who are muppets thread - you'll never come out alive.


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> so you have racist friends?


Yes.  I don't define myself by my philosophical viewpoints.  I like diversity.  Black/white, gay/straight, right/left, men/women, rich/poor, that sort of thing...


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> so you have racist friends?


don't we all? depends HOW racist, of course...


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## rioted (May 12, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The urge to see something behind everything is not a politically healthy one though.


Whereas the urge to take everything at face value is a requisite.


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2014)

rioted said:


> Whereas the urge to take everything at face value is a requisite.


Yes of course. Clearly and indubitably old boy.


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

rioted said:


> Whereas the urge to take everything at face value is a requisite.


a requisite for...


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## butchersapron (May 12, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> a requisite for...


I think teach meant prerequisite.  Oh well.


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> don't we all? depends HOW racist, of course...



I have friends who are ex-military and friends who are bikers.  Both of those often tend to fall somewhere right of the middle line...

But they're a larf and I like them


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Some people have friends and other contacts who are more fuckwitted than outrightly or deliberately racist.


yes of course
easy for me as i got hardly any and cut off any relatives coming out with shite years ago


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Don't look at the facebook friends who are muppets thread - you'll never come out alive.


i have read it a few times and aware of how people think and voice their opinions


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> Yes.  I don't define myself by my philosophical viewpoints.  I like diversity.  Black/white, gay/straight, right/left, men/women, rich/poor, that sort of thing...


you are comparing racist/not racist to those above?


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> don't we all? depends HOW racist, of course...


yup! none of them are as racist or as much of a sexist pig as me tho!


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I have friends who are ex-military and friends who are bikers.  Both of those often tend to fall somewhere right of the middle line...
> 
> But they're a larf and I like them


are they harmless? do they love their mums? awww, bless em


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> you are comparing racist/not racist to those above?



I don't know what you mean.  Above where?

I shall just say what I thought I said earlier.  I Iike people because I like them, not because they can fulfil a tick-box list of political questions.  I may live in a different type of world to you and I may have different viewpoints to you.


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I don't know what you mean.  Above where?
> 
> I shall just say what I thought I said earlier.  I Iike people because I like them, not because they can fulfil a tick-box list of political questions.  I may live in a different type of world to you and I may have different viewpoints to you.


these


> I like diversity. Black/white, gay/straight, right/left, men/women, rich/poor


are you saying that you have both racist and non racist friends because you like diversity?


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> these
> 
> are you saying that you have both racist and non racist friends because you like diversity?



What are you doing?  Are you engaging in friendly discussion or are you just sin-sniffing like some latter-day Torquemada? 

Do you suspect me to be a heretic or an apostate?  Do you gain points if you expose me?


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

No was asking a straight question, will you answer it? Are you comparing gay/straight to racist/not racist? 
Also confused as to how a diverse groups of friends can happily contain racists

I don't know what you mean by Torquemada sorry


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> No was asking a straight question, will you answer it? Are you comparing gay/straight to racist/not racist?
> Also confused as to how a diverse groups of friends can happily contain racists
> 
> I don't know what you mean by Torquemada sorry


torquemada founder of spanish inquisition


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> No was asking a straight question, will you answer it? Are you comparing gay/straight to racist/not racist?
> Also confused as to how a diverse groups of friends can happily contain racists
> 
> I don't know what you mean by Torquemada sorry


I don't care to be interrogated so, no, I won't answer it.  I don't know you so I don't feel obliged.

I said I have friends who are ex-military and friends who are bikers.  Make of that what you will.


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I don't care to be interrogated so, no, I won't answer it.  I don't know you so I don't feel obliged.
> 
> I said I have friends who are ex-military and friends who are bikers.  Make of that what you will.


but do you have any ex-biker military friends or any ex-military biker friends?


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## killer b (May 12, 2014)

Christ ddraig, you arent half being a narky prick atm. Sharing reactionary memes does not = racist. Stop it.


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> but do you have any ex-biker military friends or any ex-military biker friends?


No, they are strictly separate.  One of each.

I also have a friend who used to be a prison officer but none who used to be in the police.


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> No, they are strictly separate.  One of each.
> 
> I also have a friend who used to be a prison officer but none who used to be in the police.


what about any who are currently in the police?


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> Christ ddraig, you arent half being a narky prick atm. Sharing reactionary memes does not = racist. Stop it.


Pardon boss?
What meme?
Oh one billboard, sorry
Are my questions not valid then?


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> Pardon boss?
> What meme?
> Oh one billboard, sorry
> Are my questions not valid then?


this is urban, of course your questions aren't valid


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I don't care to be interrogated so, no, I won't answer it.  I don't know you so I don't feel obliged.
> 
> I said I have friends who are ex-military and friends who are bikers.  Make of that what you will.


Sorry that you feel a few questions in one post means an interrogation!
Do you only answer people you know the? Strange way to partake of a discussion forum.


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> Do you only answer people you know the?


people Sirena knows the what?


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

n


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> n


na na na?


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

"Then" there was meant to be an "n"


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## Pickman's model (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> "Then" there was meant to be an "n"


n-n-n-n-n-nineteen?


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> Christ ddraig, you arent half being a narky prick atm. Sharing reactionary memes does not = racist. Stop it.


 what meme? 
where do you get off telling me to stop it anyroad?


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## bolshiebhoy (May 12, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> Its money. All the sponsored posts. The reason so many people are sharing this shit is it is turning up in everyone's feed. Posts along the lines of "Isn't it sad some cunts killed a drummer" and "this kids dead aren't the parents who did it shit" are the ones most of my "friends" seem to be sharing quite possibly without looking into the politics. The halal ones and the "oh noes this foreign person did a foreign crime here in what to them is a foreign country but got a medal for it because they're foreign but marines go to orison because they're not foreign" get a few shares. Someone I went to college with reposts all the Rigby grief porn, possibly because her son is in the army or some such, didn't respond when I mentioned that the Rigby family have spoken out against far right groups and got into a dispute with/about Britain First using his name as a vote winner on polling cards. I have been getting constant sponsored posts from them perhaps because I've visited "political pages". Must be costing Dowson a fortune.


Now this makes perfect sense, thanks. Couldn't understand why it's suddenly everywhere. The 'memes' aren't that clever, quite a lot are rehashed from ages ago and never seemed to get so many shares the first time round when it was just joe bloggs posting it. The sponsored thing does explain it's visibility.


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## killer b (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> what meme?
> where do you get off telling me to stop it anyroad?


 Your dog with a bone act on this thread started when sirena said some friends had been sharing britain first stuff on FB about halal slaughter?

You seem to have made a hobby recently of shouting at people for not being anti-racist enough for your liking, which I think doesn't really take into account people's actual experience of friendship and - would you believe - does fuck all other than get their backs up. So I thought I'd tell you. That's where I get off.


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## Louis MacNeice (May 12, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> na na na?




Na, na-na na-na
Na-na na-na
Na-na na-na na-na
Na-na na-na
Need somebody help me say it one time!
Na, na-na na-na
Na-na na-na
Na-na na-na na-na
Na-na na-na


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## cuppa tee (May 12, 2014)

I was reading this thread this morning and by coincidence this.........[from the Britain First facebook page]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...546.1073741826.300455573433044&type=1&theater


...........just popped up on my fb, it's had nearly 900,000 likes and 35,000 shares
a guy who liked it is someone on my friends list who I don't know but who is promoting his showbiz act
he peppers his self promotion with xenophobic materials
I've had a row with him once before when he posted some nonsense about muslims which led to him deleting his post


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## Mr.Bishie (May 12, 2014)

Was just about to link to Buzzfeed who unearthed some dirt about Britain First & those at the helm, titled; Five reasons why you should never share BF memes. Looks like Buzzfeed have taken it down from this morning.


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## mr steev (May 12, 2014)

Funnily enough, a BF post has just appeared on my facebook feed. It's appeared because one of my mates, who is the most committed anti racist I know, has commented on it.

The picture is this





(which apparently is not what it seems, but a photograph from a religious re-enactment)
But if you actually read the story they quote which apparently is supposed to be about the picture with the headline 'WESTERN LIBERAL WOMEN: PAY ATTENTION..PLEASE!' It's quite obviously fucking satire 

Not that any of that unfortunately stop the hate that this shit stirs up


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## Mr Moose (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I have friends who are ex-military and friends who are bikers.  Both of those often tend to fall somewhere right of the middle line...
> 
> But they're a larf and I like them



Talking of bikers has anyone had anything from the 'Knights Templars Against Child Abuse'?

Seems in a similar vein.


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> Your dog with a bone act on this thread started when sirena said some friends had been sharing britain first stuff on FB about halal slaughter?
> 
> You seem to have made a hobby recently of shouting at people for not being anti-racist enough for your liking, which I think doesn't really take into account people's actual experience of friendship and - would you believe - does fuck all other than get their backs up. So I thought I'd tell you. That's where I get off.


so just because i've asked a few questions in a row you feel the need to step in?
if you'd have posted the above rather than what you posted telling me to stop it then it would have been clearer. still don't know what meme you are on about.
I didn't say anything about anyone not being anti racist enough and some of the questions were out of confusion. and where have i made a hobby out of it??
I saw a post saying about diverse friends and asked, possibly a few too many times in quick succession, whether being racist/non racist was comparable to being gay/not gay. what is wrong with that??

are you standing in for lengel and will you be accusing me of being sexist next as i directed some questions at a female poster?

do you have racist friends btw?


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## strung out (May 12, 2014)

I bet everyone's got racist friends.


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## classicdish (May 12, 2014)

ddraig what has any of this got to do with the thread topic?


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Talking of bikers has anyone had anything from the 'Knights Templars Against Child Abuse'?
> 
> Seems in a similar vein.



And has anyone seen the English Democrats party election broadcast?  It's just been on the telly.

Crikey!  I must have been asleep because I didn't even know they existed.


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## Mr Moose (May 12, 2014)

strung out said:


> I bet everyone's got racist friends.



When it comes to fb I bet everyone's got racist family.


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## CosmikRoger (May 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> pretty sure wearing political uniforms can get you a nicking, still



That's Peter Dow fucked then.


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## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

classicdish said:


> ddraig what has any of this got to do with the thread topic?


should i shut up or something?


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## Mr.Bishie (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> And has anyone seen the English Democrats party election broadcast?  It's just been on the telly.
> 
> Crikey!  I must have been asleep because I didn't even know they existed.




The BBC have just aired it. Fucking nora.


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## killer b (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> do you have racist friends btw?


Probably. Why? What should I do with them?


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## DotCommunist (May 12, 2014)

The ED's have done really well in my region  in the past- almost neatly splitting the hard right vote in two.


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## Mungy (May 12, 2014)

what happened with the buzzfeed thing? a couple of my friends had posted it up but by the time i'd got to it, it was gone.


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## Manter (May 12, 2014)

Mungy said:


> what happened with the buzzfeed thing? a couple of my friends had posted it up but by the time i'd got to it, it was gone.


It was a community generated post, so I guess one of the Britain first goons complained and it didn't meet some guideline or other. 

Tbf it did accuse the main backer of sexual assault, which as far as I'm aware has never been tested in court


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## Mr.Bishie (May 12, 2014)

Mungy said:


> what happened with the buzzfeed thing? a couple of my friends had posted it up but by the time i'd got to it, it was gone.



I suspect it was pulled due to legal reasons.


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## Mr.Bishie (May 12, 2014)

Manter said:


> It was a community generated post, so I guess one of the Britain first goons complained and it didn't meet some guideline or other.
> 
> Tbf it did accuse the main backer of sexual assault, which as far as I'm aware has never been tested in court



Of being a nonce to be more precise.


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## Manter (May 12, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Of being a nonce to be more precise.


Hmmm. That was never going to stay up long....


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## Sirena (May 12, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> The BBC have just aired it. Fucking nora.


Naively, I thought our little multicultural country was heading in a nice direction but, now, I get a real sense of foreboding. 

That little clip, with all its heart-swelling jingoism is like a call-to-arms of the worst kind 

And I've just had a proper shouting match  with someone on Facebook about that piece of propaganda that Mr Steev shows above....


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## likesfish (May 12, 2014)

CosmikRoger said:


> That's Peter Dow fucked then.


 Dows safe as the offence is being part of an organisation so the dowster is quite safe as not even met would reckon one person counts as a political organisation.
 Had a friend who was a spratist and they got warned over the "natty" neckerchiefs they handed out.
T shirts dont count as uniform items but scarfs do


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## pesh (May 12, 2014)

Buzzfeed page is here...
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...are-britain-fi-oqlk+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk


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## DotCommunist (May 12, 2014)

likesfish said:


> Dows safe as the offence is being part of an organisation so the dowster is quite safe as not even met would reckon one person counts as a political organisation.
> Had a friend who was a *spratist* and they got warned over the "natty" neckerchiefs they handed out.
> T shirts dont count as uniform items but scarfs do




From the river to the sea, one day bait fish will be free


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## Mr.Bishie (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> Naively, I thought our little multicultural country was heading in a nice direction but, now, I get a real sense of foreboding.
> 
> That little clip, with all its heart-swelling jingoism is like a call-to-arms of the worst kind
> 
> And I've just had a proper shouting match  with someone on Facebook about that piece of propaganda that Mr Steev shows above....



I came quite close to launching summat at the tele. Depressing shit.


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## N_igma (May 12, 2014)

Some of my friends have shared their pics and have written 'is this true?' above it.

It really pains me that I have to point out that no a Muslim didn't get out of prison for sexual assault because he is on benefits and can't speak English but fuck it has to be done!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 12, 2014)

pesh said:


> Buzzfeed page is here...
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:EwBppkier24J:www.buzzfeed.com/francescaweareallc/five-reasons-why-you-should-never-share-britain-fi-oqlk &cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk



I'm sure it mentioned Dowson of noncing. My mistake. Horrible cunt either way.


----------



## dylanredefined (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> Naively, I thought our little multicultural country was heading in a nice direction but, now, I get a real sense of foreboding.




  We aren't though ethnic minorities make up about 11% of the population not 30% that the public think. We are a lot more tolerant of other cultures ,but, hardly multicultural
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html


----------



## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> Probably. Why? What should I do with them?


maybe ask them why they are, try and reason with them, tell them they are wrong, then fuck them off if they keep at it


----------



## killer b (May 12, 2014)

thank you for your sage advice.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 12, 2014)

Sirena said:


> And has anyone seen the English Democrats party election broadcast?  It's just been on the telly.
> 
> Crikey!  I must have been asleep because I didn't even know they existed.




Someone called 'Citizen Steve' provided the 'tune'.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 13, 2014)

Sirena said:


> Naively, I thought our little multicultural country was heading in a nice direction but, now, I get a real sense of foreboding.



It is, this is the reaction. Whilst it is dangerous and should be opposed it's not the future.


----------



## Favelado (May 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Someone called 'Citizen Steve' provided the 'tune'.



Oxford and Cambridge, English Law
Charles Dickens, Bobby Moore.

One of the funniest bad lyrics I've heard for a long time. Thanks.


----------



## Sirena (May 13, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Oxford and Cambridge, English Law
> Charles Dickens, Bobby Moore.
> 
> One of the funniest bad lyrics I've heard for a long time. Thanks.


But they at least got the bit about more than 1000 years a xtian country right.  Most people say 2000 years and I would step in and say 'Well no, actually...' and start boring them about how the East Coast and E Anglia especially was still blah blah blah until the 11th century...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Oxford and Cambridge, English Law
> Charles Dickens, Bobby Moore.
> 
> One of the funniest bad lyrics I've heard for a long time. Thanks.




nothing can top 'I look like robert deniro, I drive a mitsibishi zero' for me


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> I was reading this thread this morning and by coincidence this.........[from the Britain First facebook page]
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...546.1073741826.300455573433044&type=1&theater
> 
> ...



Fucking idiots probably don't even realise that he's holding the rifle cross-body, and not pointing it (as one might assume if one were either stupid or unable to think in 3 dimensions) at the civvie, but toward the railings. 

Braindead right-wing morons!


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 13, 2014)

Just had to intervene with a friend of the family sharing shit from these twats.


----------



## ddraig (May 13, 2014)

don't you appreciate the diversity of your friends and their views!!1!


----------



## Dogsauce (May 13, 2014)

Never see any shit like this, despite having a few likely candidates among family/old work colleagues.  I must have dickwad-free Facebook privilege.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 13, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I came quite close to launching summat at the tele. Depressing shit.


didn't someone kick in their telly at disgust at the bill grundy interview?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 13, 2014)

yeah it was a truck driver who probably realised immediately that seeing as it was the 1970s, there was nothing else to do except watch telly.


----------



## Favelado (May 13, 2014)

Ah, St. George's Day.

Celebrated in Barcelona by giving your loved one a rose and a book, and taking an evening walk along the Ramblas hand-in-hand.

Celebrated in Rio de Janeiro by having a barbecue with family and friends, before going to a samba party later on.

Celebrated in England by getting hammered in a pub car park screaming "Allah is a paedo."

All them foreigners need a bit of culture.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 13, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> didn't someone kick in their telly at disgust at the bill grundy interview?



I've absolutely no idea


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2014)

yes because some twat had never heard the word fuck before.

I still recon he was paid to be outraged and quotable.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (May 13, 2014)

Is that where the phrase 'I stuck my foot through the (Telly/Radio/Whatever) and sent (The BBC/Channel 4 / Whoever) the bill' which often closes letters in Viz comes from?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2014)

King Biscuit Time said:


> Is that where the phrase 'I stuck my foot through the (Telly/Radio/Whatever) and sent (The BBC/Channel 4 / Whoever) the bill' which often closes letters in Viz comes from?


yes  a venerable viz trope


----------



## Idris2002 (May 13, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> didn't someone kick in their telly at disgust at the bill grundy interview?



I thought somebody had a heart attack and died, so shocked they became at the spectacle of televised bad language.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 13, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I've absolutely no idea


Lorry driver James Holmes, 47, was outraged that his eight-year-old-son Lee heard the swearing…and kicked in the screen of his TV. “It blew up and I was knocked backwards” he said. “But I was so angry and disgusted with this filth that I took a swing with my boot.” “I can swear as well as anyone, but I don’t want this sort of muck coming into my home at teatime.”
Mr Holmes, of Beedfield Walk, Waltham Abbey, Essex, added: “I am not a violent person, but I would like to have got hold of Grundy.” “He should be sacked for encouraging this sort of disgusting behaviour.”

so he'd be 84 or so now


----------



## Theisticle (May 13, 2014)




----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2014)

whats he been lifted for


----------



## Dogsauce (May 14, 2014)

The 2013 Criminal Justice Bill included an amendment that criminalised the offence of being a massive bellend, I think.


----------



## mr steev (May 14, 2014)

According to BFs facebook he wasn't arrested, but was pulled over by police and subjected to a 'roadside interrogation' then went home


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2014)

so he got a tug. This is not news. Whats next, the breathless revelation that he's got to p5roduce his documents within 14 days?


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 14, 2014)

Rutita1 said:


> Just had to intervene with a friend of the family sharing shit from these twats.


Just had my first one, posted the buzzfeed cache on their page. Thanks to whoever found that.


----------



## tufty79 (May 15, 2014)

just seen the video on look north of their bradford mosque visit at the weekend. fucksake.


----------



## Ranbay (May 15, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27427023


----------



## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

They've underlined their opposition of Islam on facebook by sharing a quote by..... Malcolm X, a Muslim.


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> They've underlined their opposition of Islam on facebook by sharing a quote by..... Malcolm X, a Muslim.


What's the quote?


----------



## marty21 (May 16, 2014)

Rutita1 said:


> Just had to intervene with a friend of the family sharing shit from these twats.


 2 cousins  one got back to me and told me he'd never heard of them so didn't realise - it was a picture of the Glasgow airport fire/attempted bombing from a few years ago -


----------



## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> What's the quote?



_
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.
_


----------



## ddraig (May 16, 2014)

haha!


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> _If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing._


Odd choice - a total rubbish quote and i can't see any relation to them. They're not in the papers for starters.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Odd choice - a total rubbish quote and i can't see any relation to them. They're not in the papers for starters.



It's under the claim that they're being 'investigated' for handing out bibles in a Muslim area. I have a screen grab but can't add it from phone.


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> It's under the claim that they're being 'investigated' for handing out bibles in a Muslim area. I have a screen grab but can't add it from phone.


Cheers, don't bother though - just a minor odd thing i suppose. I'm waiting for some of these left/right crossover groups to approvingly wheel out his claim that the russian revolution in october 1917 was a white nationalist revolution.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 18, 2014)

Big up the Yorkshire massive!


----------



## nicedream (May 18, 2014)

Rutita1 said:


> View attachment 54066



i will forward this to some people, thanks.


----------



## treelover (May 18, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> It's under the claim that they're being 'investigated' for handing out bibles in a Muslim area. I have a screen grab but can't add it from phone.




lots of missionaries across the world would have been affected if that had been against the law a century ago.


----------



## tony.c (May 18, 2014)

treelover said:


> lots of missionaries across the world would have been affected if that had been against the law a century ago.


And you think they are Christian missionaries do you?


----------



## treelover (May 18, 2014)

eh, not at all, wasn't even mentioning them, pointing out handing out bibles in non Christian countries was ubiquitous across the world for centuries was a fact,  nothing more

these ridiculous smears on posters inc myself must stop.


----------



## ddraig (May 18, 2014)

treelover said:


> eh, not at all, wasn't even mentioning them, pointing out handing out bibles in non Christian countries was ubiquitous across the world for centuries was a fact,  nothing more
> 
> these ridiculous smears on posters inc myself must stop.


how is it a smear?? 
how do you think your post read and what was the actual point of it?


----------



## treelover (May 18, 2014)

people post all sorts of unconnected or tangentially connected things on here, back off


----------



## ddraig (May 18, 2014)

why are you so scared of questions?
what you said was a smear was a question, you could have just answered instead of taking offence


----------



## tony.c (May 18, 2014)

treelover said:


> eh, not at all, wasn't even mentioning them, pointing out handing out bibles in non Christian countries was ubiquitous across the world for centuries was a fact,  nothing more
> 
> these ridiculous smears on posters inc myself must stop.


Just pointing out that it was a ridiculous analogy.


----------



## Sasaferrato (May 18, 2014)

mr steev said:


> They reckon the have hundreds of ex-servicemen street activists and armoured landrovers that they are apparently going to 'deploy' to protect ukip
> 
> http://w w w. britainfirst .org/news/britain-first-to-deploy-armoured-patrol-vehicles-and-ex-military-volunteers-to-protect-ukip-leader-nigel-farage/
> 
> There's talk on their facebook page of 'invading' mosques in the North West and Scotland and continuing the crusades




Oh well, if they propose to invade the local mosque, they will find this ex-serviceman defending it.


----------



## treelover (May 18, 2014)

tony.c said:


> Just pointing out that it was a ridiculous analogy.




I just posted that it wasn't an analogy, it was just a tangential thought, which I found interesting, even if no one else did

I know nothing about B/F, my main interests are around inequality, just wish there were more of us.

and yes, I agree with Sas above.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 18, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> The 2013 Criminal Justice Bill included an amendment that criminalised the offence of being a massive bellend, I think.



Would that this were the case, we could clear parliament out as quick as they could bring the paddy wagons around.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 19, 2014)




----------



## malatesta32 (May 20, 2014)

oh dear.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 22, 2014)

Now the most popular UK political party on Facebook due to their meme distribution. Scary.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/britain-first-has-quietly-become-the-most-popular-uk-politic

Does show that the barriers to attaining this sort of popularity (for whatever it's worth) are pretty low, though you could argue that the divisive crap they're peddling has been pushed by certain papers and other political parties for a long time.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Now the most popular UK political party on Facebook due to their meme distribution. Scary.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/britain-first-has-quietly-become-the-most-popular-uk-politic
> 
> Does show that the barriers to attaining this sort of popularity (for whatever it's worth) are pretty low, though you could argue that the divisive crap they're peddling has been pushed by certain papers and other political parties for a long time.


yeh and the bnp's website's the most popular political website and the mail's is the most popular news website.

can you see a pattern developing?


----------



## butchersapron (May 22, 2014)

They bought 200 000+ followers and their likes though.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 22, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh and the bnp's website's the most popular political website and the mail's is the most popular news website.
> 
> can you see a pattern developing?



Do they all have a sidebar of barely-clothed teenage celebrities?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Do they all have a sidebar of barely-clothed teenage celebrities?


probably. it's the christian thing to do, in't it.


----------



## belboid (May 23, 2014)

I hear a couple required a lift in an ambulance following a 'street patrol' in Brick Lane last night. Anyone else heard owt?


----------



## hipipol (May 23, 2014)

Friend of mines Dad said the proudest day of his life was when he punched Mosely in the face
If these twats keep this up I may just get the chance to have the proudest day of mine


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 23, 2014)

belboid said:


> I hear a couple required a lift in an ambulance following a 'street patrol' in Brick Lane last night. Anyone else heard owt?


http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...s_brick_lane_march_ends_in_violence_1_3613477 is the only reference I can see (usual procession of idiots in the comments).


----------



## treelover (May 23, 2014)

Feels like the 80's again


----------



## belboid (May 24, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...s_brick_lane_march_ends_in_violence_1_3613477 is the only reference I can see (usual procession of idiots in the comments).


cheers


----------



## 8115 (May 24, 2014)

My facebook friend has been sharing Britain First's stuff. She used to be in the army and I think it's that. I hope it's just that. Maybe people don't realise. You would think the name was a bit of a clue.


----------



## likesfish (May 24, 2014)

Somebody claimed its some rip off of the uda froutatly sectarian based murder and drug dealing probably wont catch on.
 Although a few murals might brighten the place up


----------



## ddraig (May 24, 2014)

8115 said:


> My facebook friend has been sharing Britain First's stuff. She used to be in the army and I think it's that. I hope it's just that. Maybe people don't realise. You would think the name was a bit of a clue.


good on you for having diverse friends!


----------



## 8115 (May 24, 2014)

ddraig said:


> good on you for having diverse friends!


Usually it's good


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 24, 2014)

treelover said:


> Feels like the 80's again


In slow motion?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2014)

like the 80s? yes, shit politicians, terrible music and bad drugs.


----------



## Roadkill (May 25, 2014)

Three years ago it felt as if we'd slipped back 30 years and it was 1981 again - ruined economy, deeply right-wing Tory government, riots, and then a royal wedding.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 25, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> They bought 200 000+ followers and their likes though.



Might only cost £200. It's like anyone can set up one of these 'movements' from their bedroom.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2014)

Roadkill said:


> Three years ago it felt as if we'd slipped back 30 years and it was 1981 again - ruined economy, deeply right-wing Tory government, riots, and then a royal wedding.



yeah and most of us fucken unemployed!


----------



## Flanflinger (May 25, 2014)

Roadkill said:


> Three years ago it felt as if we'd slipped back 30 years and it was 1981 again - ruined economy, deeply right-wing Tory government, riots, and then a royal wedding.


 
Don't forget the cheap council houses. Mine goes on the market this week for £270 grand. The Nepalese are snapping them up around here. Then it's early retirement and off to join big Sister in Tenerife.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 27, 2014)

you can join all the other ex pat wankers crying into the telegraph comment section about how britains gone to the dogs then. twat.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (May 27, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Now the most popular UK political party on Facebook due to their meme distribution. Scary.
> 
> http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/britain-first-has-quietly-become-the-most-popular-uk-politic
> 
> Does show that the barriers to attaining this sort of popularity (for whatever it's worth) are pretty low, though you could argue that the divisive crap they're peddling has been pushed by certain papers and other political parties for a long time.



But don't forget all the White Power cunts in other countries (inc the USA where there are loads of the fuckers) might well 'like' Britain First (as well as similar twatty organisations the world over), whereas a moderate left-leaning normal bloke in the US is unlikely to bother seeking out the UK Labour Party for a 'like'.


----------



## gosub (May 27, 2014)

Flanflinger said:


> Don't forget the cheap council houses. Mine goes on the market this week for £270 grand. The Nepalese are snapping them up around here. Then it's early retirement and off to join big Sister in Tenerife.



Farnborough?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 27, 2014)

King Biscuit Time said:


> But don't forget all the White Power cunts in other countries (inc the USA where there are loads of the fuckers) might well 'like' Britain First (as well as similar twatty organisations the world over), whereas a moderate left-leaning normal bloke in the US is unlikely to bother seeking out the UK Labour Party for a 'like'.



True, the same people often flood the comments section of the BBC and British newspapers too.  There's a lot of international solidarity between bigots, apparently.


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2014)

The EDL FB sites were/are full of U.S posters


----------



## malatesta32 (May 27, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> True, the same people often flood the comments section of the BBC and British newspapers too.  There's a lot of international solidarity between bigots, apparently.



yes facebook makes it easy to contact folk but its organisation not likes on facebook that means trainers on the tarmac.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 28, 2014)

treelover said:


> Feels like the 80's again


The mid to late 70s, more like. The rise in fortunes of parties like UKIP almost mirror the gains made by the NF and its splinters.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 28, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> like the 80s? yes, shit politicians, terrible music and bad drugs.


Terrible music? There was some great music in the 80s. The Specials, The Beat, The Au Pairs... I could list some more.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 28, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Terrible music? There was some great music in the 80s. The Specials, The Beat, The Au Pairs... I could list some more.



Musically the 80s started in 1982. After the punk/post punk/new wave renaissance had withered away and the man was back in charge.


----------



## cantsin (May 28, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Terrible music? There was some great music in the 80s. The Specials, The Beat, The Au Pairs... I could list some more.



bunnymen,cure, aztec camera etc kiiling joke


Kaka Tim said:


> Musically the 80s started in 1982. After the punk/post punk/new wave renaissance had withered away and the man was back in charge.




1986 - Farley Jackmaster Funk - Love Can't turn Around - UK #1 
1988 - ? Acid 'Ouse


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 28, 2014)

cantsin said:


> bunnymen,cure, aztec camera etc kiiling joke
> 
> 
> 
> ...



there was some goods stuff obv - but the mainstream was shit. look at what was in the top 10 between 78 and 82 and compare with 82 - 89. And the bunnymen and the cures best stuff was pre 82.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2014)

the mainstream is always shit and if you've heard of it they aren't cool anymore

/hipster


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> there was some goods stuff obv - but the mainstream was shit. look at what was in the top 10 between 78 and 82 and compare with 82 - 89. And the bunnymen and the cures best stuff was pre 82.


Mainstream stuff in 1981 was fantastic!


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Mainstream stuff in 1981 was fantastic!



that was my point. 

to get back on topic - I blame the immigrants/muslims/romanians etc.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 28, 2014)

cantsin said:


> bunnymen,cure, aztec camera etc kiiling joke
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaata, The Fall, Teardrop Explodes... oy, sorry for derailing the thread.


----------



## mystic pyjamas (May 28, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> The mid to late 70s, more like. The rise in fortunes of parties like UKIP almost mirror the gains made by the NF and its splinters.


Don't think it's a reflection at all of the 70s and the NF. 
Like it or not UKIP are becoming more accepted by the mainstream and are not regarded as thuggish or even as racist as the NF were. 
Also I would put money on UKIP being a more permanent feature of the British political landscape.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 28, 2014)

mystic pyjamas said:


> Don't think it's a reflection at all of the 70s and the NF.
> Like it or not UKIP are becoming more accepted by the mainstream and are not regarded as thuggish or even as racist as the NF were.
> Also I would put money on UKIP being a more permanent feature of the British political landscape.


UKIP's success is the reason why racist language has been legitimised. Now I recognise that Thatcher had done this previously by stealing the NF's clothes, but UKIP are the inheritors of her mantle.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 28, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Musically the 80s started in 1982. After the punk/post punk/new wave renaissance had withered away and the man was back in charge.


Pop Will Eat Itself, The Smiths, The Redskins, The Cocteau Twins, Jesus and Mary Chain...?


----------



## The39thStep (May 28, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> UKIP's success is the reason why racist language has been legitimised. Now I recognise that Thatcher had done this previously by stealing the NF's clothes, but UKIP are the inheritors of her mantle.


 
I am not sure that racist language has been legitimised. The majority of people I know who think immigration should be more controlled and resent , as they see it, as  people arriving to the country having never contributed getting benefits are not racist in any way.many of them have mixed families or actually have non British heritage and live side by side with people from all over the place. None of them are saying ' if they are black send them back'


----------



## The39thStep (May 28, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Musically the 80s started in 1982. After the punk/post punk/new wave renaissance had withered away and the man was back in charge.



Actually there was a whole swathe of music that was both popular and oppositional to the man in charge. I wouldn't subscribe to a history of music based on Top of the Pops 2.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Mainstream stuff in 1981 was fantastic!


Big Shakey fan then?


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2014)

articul8 said:


> Big Shakey fan then?


Fucking right - and in a non-ironic way. Best singer for a genuine Commy rockabilly band ever.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Fucking right - and in a non-ironic way. Best singer for a genuine Commy rockabilly band ever.



Shaky was a young commie?!  You learn something every day


----------



## belboid (May 28, 2014)

articul8 said:


> Shaky was a young commie?!  You learn something every day


one of my favourite pub quiz questions, 'Which welsh communist had a number one hit about lesbians in the 1950's?'


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2014)

belboid said:


> one of my favourite pub quiz questions, 'Which welsh communist had a number one hit about lesbians in the 1950's?'



what was that?  Green Door?!


----------



## belboid (May 28, 2014)

yup - a west london lesbian club

Altho some argue that that is a different green door, I refuse to believe it


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2014)

belboid said:


> yup - a west london lesbian club
> 
> Altho some argue that that is a different green door, I refuse to believe it


Tell him what _this ol' house_ is really about.


----------



## belboid (May 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Tell him what _this ol' house_ is really about.


surely everyone knows it is a metaphor for the attempted crushing of Cuba under the jackboot of yankee imperialism


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2014)

belboid said:


> surely everyone knows it is a metaphor for the attempted crushing of Cuba under the jackboot of yankee imperialism


You see, how little you know articul8 - and how little you don't realise that you don't know.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2014)

now you really are taking the piss


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 28, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Actually there was a whole swathe of music that was both popular and oppositional to the man in charge. I wouldn't subscribe to a history of music based on Top of the Pops 2.



TOTP 2 !!!!  I WAS _THERE_ MAN!!!!!

And yes there was _some_ decent music - but it didn't trouble the charts or get played on the radio much. E.g - the biggest alternative band of the later 80s - The Smiths - only had 1 top ten hit. The likes of the specials and the jam had a whole string of top 5 hits and a few no 1s. From about 1982 you had to dig out the good stuff - you didn't hear it on daytime radio, or playing in shops or in the background on eastenders etc.


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> I am not sure that racist language has been legitimised. The majority of people I know who think immigration should be more controlled and resent , as they see it, as  people arriving to the country having never contributed getting benefits are not racist in any way.many of them have mixed families or actually have non British heritage and live side by side with people from all over the place. None of them are saying ' if they are black send them back'




I just can't see what is racist about the contributory principle in relation to benefits, either oneself or historically through family paying in, etc, this is common across the EU, I know when I cited this a couple of years ago on here, that was the gist of the response.


----------



## dennisr (May 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Mainstream stuff in 1981 was fantastic!


(((((((((Julio Iglesias)))))))))))


----------



## dennisr (May 28, 2014)

arf


----------



## ddraig (May 28, 2014)

treelover said:


> I just can't see what is racist about the contributory principle in relation to benefits, either oneself or historically through family paying in, etc, this is common across the EU, I know when I cited this a couple of years ago on here, that was the gist of the response.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Mainstream stuff in 1981 was fantastic!



Fred Wedlock still takes some beating.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Terrible music? There was some great music in the 80s. The Specials, The Beat, The Au Pairs... I could list some more.



visage, ultravox, duran duran, spandau ballet, sheen easton, all brilliant!


----------



## The39thStep (May 29, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> visage, ultravox, duran duran, spandau ballet, sheen easton, all brilliant!



Funnily enough the first four were part of an apolitical
lets drink cocktails be glam and hold elite club events type scene that two thirds of NME promoted. 
The minority on the paper supported music that they saw as political and cultural opposition to Thatcher.


----------



## The39thStep (May 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> I just can't see what is racist about the contributory principle in relation to benefits, either oneself or historically through family paying in, etc, this is common across the EU, I know when I cited this a couple of years ago on here, that was the gist of the response.



Yes I remember the outrage when IWCA members argued a similar case over social housing entitlement .


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2014)

The problem with focusing on the 'contributory principle' is that it will be used to attack native citizens who haven't contributed too. 

This is what the tories and others are up to - using the unpopularity of immigrants to start attacking universal benefits and as justification for installing charging mechanisms in hospitals, on the basis that some living and working in this country are not deserving.  The boundary around 'undeserving' benefit and healthcare recipients will widen picking up many more, starting with the easily demonised (prisoners, unemployed, smokers) until things like the NHS cease to exist in any meaningful way and we're all tied up with insurance schemes to cover any needs (with those outside of insurance relying on 'big society' solutions).

This is why this kind of divide and rule bullshit needs calling out for what it is and opposing.

(UKIP, with their 'no free healthcare (except emergency care) for five years for new immigrants' are very much part of this - all part of encouraging 'alternative provision').


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 29, 2014)

Also under a contributory principle, what is to stop those who can afford to make private provision for health or education, arguing that they shouldn't pay any of those collective costs, as they are already acting responsibly and making their own arrangements? Compulsory universalism in both contribution and provision (i.e. we all chip in as we are able in order to provide health and education services and we all access the same services as and when we need them) seems to offer the best chance of guaranteeing availability, quality and social recognition and solidarity.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. I choose education and particularly health as those appear easiest to talk about in universalist terms in the current  climate.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 29, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> I am not sure that racist language has been legitimised. The majority of people I know who think immigration should be more controlled and resent , as they see it, as  people arriving to the country having never contributed getting benefits are not racist in any way.many of them have mixed families or actually have non British heritage and live side by side with people from all over the place. None of them are saying ' if they are black send them back'


Perhaps I should have phrased my point differently. UKIP have legitimised _immigrant hatred_ and this has contributed to an upsurge in racism, which is further legitimated by claiming free speech. UKIP are also the inheritors of Thatcher's mantle. I remember Thatcher stealing the NF's clothes and telling people that the country was "swamped". She was a racist and a supporter of the apartheid regime in South Africa. UKIP haven't diverted much from her position.

That reminds me, is there something wrong with me because I _don't_ worry about immigration?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 29, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Funnily enough the first four were part of an apolitical
> lets drink cocktails be glam and hold elite club events type scene that two thirds of NME promoted.
> The minority on the paper supported music that they saw as political and cultural opposition to Thatcher.



and he remains quiet on the Easton!


----------



## treelover (May 29, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> The problem with focusing on the 'contributory principle' is that it will be used to attack native citizens who haven't contributed too.
> 
> This is what the tories and others are up to - using the unpopularity of immigrants to start attacking universal benefits and as justification for installing charging mechanisms in hospitals, on the basis that some living and working in this country are not deserving.  The boundary around 'undeserving' benefit and healthcare recipients will widen picking up many more, starting with the easily demonised (prisoners, unemployed, smokers) until things like the NHS cease to exist in any meaningful way and we're all tied up with insurance schemes to cover any needs (with those outside of insurance relying on 'big society' solutions).
> 
> ...




good reply, this is when P/P works, may even change minds.


----------



## treelover (May 29, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Also under a contributory principle, what is to stop those who can afford to make private provision for health or education, arguing that they shouldn't pay any of those collective costs, as they are already acting responsibly and making their own arrangements? Compulsory universalism in both contribution and provision (i.e. we all chip in as we are able in order to provide health and education services and we all access the same services as and when we need them) seems to offer the best chance of guaranteeing availability, quality and social recognition and solidarity.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice
> 
> p.s. I choose education and particularly health as those appear easiest to talk about in universalist terms in the current  climate.



One of the reasons that removing low paid from paying tax is problematic?, in the U.S, Obama's opponent Mitt Romney posited that those who didn't pay tax should'nt have the right to vote.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> One of the reasons that removing low paid from paying tax is problematic?, in the U.S, Obama's opponent Mitt Romney posited that those who didn't pay tax should'nt have the right to vote.


we all pay tax. income tax is not the only tax.


----------



## treelover (May 29, 2014)

Yes, and VAT has increased enormously.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> Yes, and VAT has increased enormously.


yeh. it went up to 17.5% from 15% when john major was chancellor to pay for the £140 reduction in the poll tax, and now it's, what, 20%?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2014)

I remember one budget under Thatcher or Major where VAT was removed from racehorses and champagne.  Didn't they end up putting it on children's books around the same time?


----------



## nino_savatte (May 29, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> and he remains quiet on the Easton!


All quiet on the Easton front?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> I remember one budget under Thatcher or Major where VAT was removed from racehorses and champagne.  Didn't they end up putting it on children's books around the same time?


there is no vat on books


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> I remember one budget under Thatcher or Major where VAT was removed from racehorses and champagne.  Didn't they end up putting it on children's books around the same time?


hmmm... it's more complicated than i thought http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vbooksmanual/VBOOKS3600.htm


----------



## articul8 (May 29, 2014)

not on e-books?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2014)

articul8 said:


> not on e-books?


you work it out http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vbooksmanual/vbooks1000.htm
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2467417/Price-ebooks-plunge-EU-orders-cut-VAT.html


----------



## malatesta32 (May 29, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> All quiet on the Easton front?



that's worthy of bignose that 1!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 31, 2014)

Had their website hacked again lol


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 31, 2014)

articul8 said:


> not on e-books?


There is VAT on ebooks at the standard rate


----------



## Greebo (May 31, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> There is VAT on ebooks at the standard rate


If you get them from amazon (not sure about other e book sites) you are explicitly told that VAT is part of the price.  Still, if the book's free, there's no VAT.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 31, 2014)

Greebo said:


> If you get them from amazon (not sure about other e book sites) you are explicitly told that VAT is part of the price.  Still, if the book's free, there's no VAT.



Well obviously you can't charge 20% on something that is free


----------



## Greebo (May 31, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Well obviously you can't charge 20% on something that is free


Shhh!  Do you want Osborne (or at least the Igors who do his thinking for him) to work out a way of charging it anyway?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 2, 2014)




----------



## ddraig (Jun 2, 2014)

yes it has happened with a few pages, including Another Angry Voice 
who is understandably pissed off by it!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 2, 2014)

What?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 2, 2014)

sorry
that thing you posted is a suggestion of other groups similar to a fb group isn't it?
i said, not very clearly, that the same has happened (BF being suggested as similar) to other fb pages including one called "Another Angry Voice" who is pissed off at the association it is implying
hope that makes sense?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 2, 2014)

ddraig said:


> sorry
> that thing you posted is a suggestion of other groups similar to a fb group isn't it?
> i said, not very clearly, that the same has happened (BF being suggested as similar) to other fb pages including one called "Another Angry Voice" who is pissed off at the association it is implying
> hope that makes sense?



Ahh yes. That makes sense now. I didn't realise there was such a group as Another Angry Voice.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 2, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Another-Angry.../185180654855189


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2014)

Just had a look at the B/F page, thousands of positive comments, disturbing.

btw, they have become vaguely 'influential' by the use of social media, yet have a look at Left Unity's page, updated once a day if lucky.

btw, I would predict some form of major 'patriotic' rally or event in the near future, not by the EDl and much wider attendance.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 2, 2014)

how are they 'positive' ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2014)

treelover said:


> Just had a look at the B/F page, thousands of positive comments, disturbing.
> 
> btw, they have become vaguely 'influential' by the use of social media, yet have a look at Left Unity's page, updated once a day if lucky.


that's because the people at britain first pay people to do their online presence


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2014)

ddraig said:


> how are they 'positive' ?


i think he means that the comments indicate people liking britain first


----------



## ddraig (Jun 2, 2014)

i know 
was before he edited


----------



## Favelado (Jun 2, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> I remember one budget under Thatcher or Major where VAT was removed from racehorses and champagne.  Didn't they end up putting it on children's books around the same time?



Fucking really? Well, you've got hand it to them. Fair play.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2014)

treelover said:


> Just had a look at the B/F page, thousands of positive comments, disturbing.
> 
> btw, they have become vaguely 'influential' by the use of social media, yet have a look at Left Unity's page, updated once a day if lucky.
> 
> btw, I would predict some form of major 'patriotic' rally or event in the near future, not by the EDl and much wider attendance.


harry getting married?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/BritiainFurst


especially if this is the response


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2014)

ddraig said:


> how are they 'positive' ?




positive to B/F's point of view.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 2, 2014)

treelover said:


> https://www.facebook.com/BritiainFurst
> 
> 
> especially if this is the response


I laughed.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 2, 2014)

I think BF exaggerates its support. A few thousand "likes" doesn't translate into a few thousand members. Besides, they probably use click farms to increase the number of "likes".

More here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...te-his-page-he-got-80000-bogus-likes-instead/


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> I think BF exaggerates its support. A few thousand "likes" doesn't translate into a few thousand members. Besides, they probably use click farms to increase the number of "likes".
> 
> More here.
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...te-his-page-he-got-80000-bogus-likes-instead/




it's already known that the rich loon backing BF has bare money and has been buying likes- it says nothing about the groups popularity and everything about how buying space for opinions works not only with traditional media


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> it's already known that the rich loon backing BF has bare money and has been buying likes- it says nothing about the groups popularity and everything about how buying space for opinions works not only with traditional media


It's postmodernism in action: it's not the content that matters but the appearance.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> it's already known that the rich loon backing BF has bare money and has been buying likes- it says nothing about the groups popularity and everything about how buying space for opinions works not only with traditional media



Could someone name the rich loon in question? ta.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Could someone name the rich loon in question? ta.




I did read it but my brain is a sieve- it started with the fleg stuff- pure astroturfing since


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 3, 2014)

Someone will chip in I'm sure.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 3, 2014)

Jim dowson


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2014)

Not even a name weird enough to make me remember it. Cheers


----------



## binka (Jun 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> it's already known that the rich loon backing BF has bare money and has been buying likes


Seriously? And my idiotic brother in law to be has been giving them for free!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2014)

i think they 'bought' a bunch of likes from another facebook page. shall check further ...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 4, 2014)

They've now shared a Howard Zinn quote.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> They've now shared a Howard Zinn quote.




go on then, give the quote


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 4, 2014)

treelover said:


> https://www.facebook.com/BritiainFurst
> 
> 
> especially if this is the response


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2014)

Here we are again. Saying that bitter, stupid racists are bitter, stupid or racist is very very bad. Its politically correct, which means its politically wrong.

What we need to do is earnestly listen to the heartfelt concerns of hate filled racists and dupes, otherwise we are doing the work of the metropolitan liberal elite.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2014)

or you know, just not use someones intelligence or lack thereof as a stick to beat them when the vile politics give you a big enough stick already


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 4, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Here we are again. Saying that bitter, stupid racists are bitter, stupid or racist is very very bad. Its politically correct, which means its politically wrong.
> 
> What we need to do is earnestly listen to the heartfelt concerns of hate filled racists and dupes, otherwise we are doing the work of the metropolitan liberal elite.


 
Should I engage with what you write here or would it be better if I redrafted it with spelling mistakes, implying that you are thick?


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 4, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> go on then, give the quote


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Should I engage with what you write here or would it be better if I redrafted it with spelling mistakes, implying that you are thick?



Do what you like. Much of what the likes of BF put forth is founded on the idea that people are stupid, regardless of proof reading. When they pretend to give a flying fuck for animal rights for example, or when they, as rabid nationalists, put up a Howard Zinn quote

But on the whole it's more important that we have a go at their opponents, who are doubtless doing things wrong in a wide variety of ways.
Stupid hatred isn't neccessarily as big a problem as people who point it out. Lets listen to their concerns. Apparently no one is allowed to eat bacon in schools. It's because of muslims. That's awful, I might say something about it on Facebook or else next thing we know Christmas will be banned. I like Christmas.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2014)

Don't you ever wonder why you always get this response on here taffboy? Don't you ever ever ask yourself what it is that you may be doing that invites the responses that you get?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 4, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Do what you like. Much of what the likes of BF put forth is founded on the idea that people are stupid, regardless of proof reading. When they pretend to give a flying fuck for animal rights for example, or when they, as rabid nationalists, put up a Howard Zinn quote
> 
> But on the whole it's more important that we have a go at their opponents, who are doubtless doing things wrong in a wide variety of ways.
> Stupid hatred isn't neccessarily as big a problem as people who point it out. Lets listen to their concerns. Apparently no one is allowed to eat bacon in schools. It's because of muslims. That's awful, I might say something about it on Facebook or else next thing we know Christmas will be banned. I like Christmas.


 
Oh OK you do stupid posts yourself, unbidden. No need for any intervention from me then, sorted.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 4, 2014)

Does a lack of adequate education mean lack of intelligence?

Only racists have poor literacy?  Only racists are 'thick'? I honestly can't see how this approach could be counterproductive at all.  Or there being any ugly class-based shit behind it which is mistakenly thought of as being progressive.

What next? Ignore health inequalities between the classes? Oh right, we've been there already, over and over. Racists have discoloured and missing teeth and have worry lines, lets's make sure on our FB and Twitter accounts people know how to spot racists. And laugh at them. 

It's fucking depressing. You're my enemy taffboy.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Don't you ever wonder why you always get this response on here taffboy? Don't you ever ever ask yourself what it is that you may be doing that invites the responses that you get?



I don't have to wonder too much Butchers, I know. 

I hope I'm not too obtuse in outlining what I'm getting at (and this is a serious point):

Reactionaries and their facilitators have, for at least a generation, constructed a series of doublethinks in order to obfuscate their hatred.
One of the main ones is that pointing out that racism may exist is "surpressing debate". The "you're suppressing debate" cannard is actually used to supress debate. 

I think many progressives have fallen into a trap, too scared of their own shadows to say, for example, that an argument may be racist, or so fallacious as to be stupid. They often seem scared of being called "politically correct", another accusation that is used to surpress debate.

"Stupidity" is no heinous thing, we are all stupid in areas of our lives, but when it is applied to visceral hatred and bitterness it becomes fair game.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2014)

seventh bullet - I hope the last sentence in my last post goes some way to answering your question. 

As for the fairly constant assertion that there is something class based in saying that stupid racists are stupid or racist, it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2014)

to my mind, for a committed anti fash activist like taff says he is, surely its a counter productive thing just in terms of tactics? Forget that its shit for a minute- but in terms of tactics it gives the other side the opportunity to present your opposition as based on classist arrogance rather than opposition to racist and fascist politics. It makes no sense to fo it that way.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 4, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> seventh bullet - I hope the last sentence in my last post goes some way to answering your question.
> 
> As for the fairly constant assertion that there is something class based in saying that stupid racists are stupid or racist, it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.



You haven't got a clue.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> You haven't got a clue.



Yes I understand. I mustn't say that stupid racists are stupid or racist. But you can say I'm clueless if you think I'm clueless.

Maybe I'm one of the "fashionable metropolitan liberal elite" I keep hearing about, even though I own fuck all and wouldn't know fashion if it kicked me in the knackers.

To be clear on spelling, and we've done this ad infinitum on here as well, I don't give a flying fuck about spelling or grammar if a good point is made well. But groups like BF forever bang on about English this and English that, how appalling it is when other people don't use the language etc.

That's why it's fine to take the piss out of any mis-use of the language on their part, because of the vapid hypocrisy. Hypocrisy has long been a target for piss-taking and rightly so. How hard is that to understand?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 4, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.


 
Bourgeoise stupidity manifests itself in spelling mistakes, does it?

Britain Furst.

You Morans.

The only experience I have had of people having being satirised for their spelling has been when some wanker has been trying to portray them as being thicko-proles. Who should probably not speak unless they are spoken to.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't have to wonder too much Butchers, I know.
> 
> I hope I'm not too obtuse in outlining what I'm getting at (and this is a serious point):
> 
> ...


This reply tells me that no, you don't know why you get the responses that you do. It also tells me that rather than engage in a little critical reflection you'd rather just paint yourself as a free speaking hero and others as moral and political cowards. This is politically useless, and on a personal level, pretty cowardly in itself. As seventh bullet says, no comrade of mine if you do this. And you have done it for at least the last 12 years.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 4, 2014)

Do you still have that spoof blog thing, taff?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 4, 2014)

Oh hang on, the last page of the thread makes sense now. You set up that 'Britain Furst' page. I should have thought as much. I'm being slow today.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2014)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Oh hang on, the last page of the thread makes sense now. You set up that 'Britain Furst' page. I should have thought as much. I'm being slow today.


I don't think that it is him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2014)

CNT36 said:


>



cheers- I've not read any zinn except Peoples History of. Should probably rectify that


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 4, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:
			
		

> Bourgeoise stupidity manifests itself in spelling mistakes, does it?
> 
> Britain Furst.
> 
> ...



I had this out with a mate recently and made the same points as you but he responded that it stems from fascists' insistence that immigrants should learn English yet have yet to master it themselves. I still don't agree with it because it isn't a political argument but he did make me see that it isn't just attacking bad education without grounds.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 4, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> seventh bullet - I hope the last sentence in my last post goes some way to answering your question.
> 
> As for the fairly constant assertion that there is something class based in saying that stupid racists are stupid or racist, it overlooks that the ranks of the bourgeoise and higher have at least their fair share of stupid racists.



This is one of your finest moments taffboy.


> _some egs on way off life
> - do rubish job you hate or no job and no money
> - crap wether most of time
> - town looks grey and concreet evrywhere
> ...



Looks like the bourgeoisie has been overlooked in favour of attacking what you think is the working class.


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> This is one of your finest moments taffboy.
> 
> 
> Looks like the bourgeoisie has been overlooked in favour of attacking what you think is the working class.



Urgh. Where's that quote from?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2014)

That's still pretty much the worst thing i've ever read.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 4, 2014)

chilango said:


> Urgh. Where's that quote from?



One of taffboy's 'satirical' blogs.

Here.


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> One of taffboy's 'satirical' blogs.
> 
> Here.



Is that really yours taffboy gwyrdd ?

It's pretty shit.

Really shit.

Satire and/or ridicule as a political tool needs to be:

A) funny

And 

B) politically effective

This sort of shit fails, spectacularly, on both counts.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 4, 2014)

i'm in various dog groups on facebook, and a new britain first thing showed up today - a picture of an abused dog with some stuff about the bloke who got let off by the courts for doing the abuse.  but this time it asked the reader to help stop this kind of thing happening again with a link to the britain first donate page.  i wonder if that works for them?  

i had a little moan about this on the page and no-one claimed that they knew BF were like that, so hopefully that's a few more people who weren't informed who have been.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 5, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Here we are again. Saying that bitter, stupid racists are bitter, stupid or racist is very very bad. Its politically correct, which means its politically wrong.
> 
> What we need to do is earnestly listen to the heartfelt concerns of hate filled racists and dupes, otherwise we are doing the work of the metropolitan liberal elite.



Calling stupid people stupid is counter-productive, especially when you can, as an alternative, dissect their arguments in a way that clearly illustrates their stupidity.  Pointing out flaws and inconsistencies has *always* worked better against the hard right than shouting "ooh, thickie Nazi slapheads!" at them Swappie-style.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 5, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> or you know, just not use someones intelligence or lack thereof as a stick to beat them when the vile politics give you a big enough stick already



TBF, I think that some people believe that analysing and critiquing hard-right politics is beneath them, that all they *have* to do is shout "thickie", and they've done their job.
I've always been of the opinion that by doing the former, you are able to lead people to arrive at the latter conclusion.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 5, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Yes I understand. I mustn't say that stupid racists are stupid or racist. But you can say I'm clueless if you think I'm clueless.



You're clueless because you don't even try to articulate why it's necessary to describe people as "stupid" when the most important charge is that they're racist.
There's also the issue whereby calling someone a "stupid racist" or "ignorant racist" means that some will read your description and will excuse the racism - after all, the racist is stupid, aren't they? They obviously don't know any better - and all because you had to vent your bile, rather than making a calm analysis.



> Maybe I'm one of the "fashionable metropolitan liberal elite" I keep hearing about, even though I own fuck all and wouldn't know fashion if it kicked me in the knackers.



It's not your possessions, it's your attitude. It stinks of condescension.



> To be clear on spelling, and we've done this ad infinitum on here as well, I don't give a flying fuck about spelling or grammar if a good point is made well. But groups like BF forever bang on about English this and English that, how appalling it is when other people don't use the language etc.
> 
> That's why it's fine to take the piss out of any mis-use of the language on their part, because of the vapid hypocrisy. Hypocrisy has long been a target for piss-taking and rightly so. How hard is that to understand?



You don't just use it as a target for piss-taking, you make it a fundamental part of your _animus_, which is an error.  people of my grandparents' generation knew better.  They knew that for every thug Mosleyite, there was an educated Mosleyite, that Mosley's middle-class supporters outnumbered his working class supporters, and that labelling them as stupid, ignorant or foolish was wrong-headed and transparently incorrect. Battling them on the physical and ideological level was what was important.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 5, 2014)

Two BF shares this week from Facebook friends. One was about a paeodo who got a light sentance, the other about MP's pay. The first deleted the post when I let him know about the dodginess of the organisation behind it, and I'm hoping the second guy will do the same. It seems that the 'popularity' of BF on Facebook stems more from their ability to produce memes that resonate widely with people, yet don't directly mention their underlying agenda. I doubt many people would 'like' them for their core beliefs.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 6, 2014)

B


----------



## ddraig (Jun 6, 2014)

yo PT


----------



## Nylock (Jun 6, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...s_brick_lane_march_ends_in_violence_1_3613477 is the only reference I can see (usual procession of idiots in the comments).


Interesting closing sentence to that article:



			
				London24.com said:
			
		

> Speaking today, David Crompton the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police said that the cost of policing far-right demonstrations in Rotherham is too high.


...Possibly hinting at '_try this on my patch and you lot are on your own_' maybe?


----------



## hipipol (Jun 6, 2014)

Ah Facebook
No tits but beheadings and Facisti aplenty
Trash
Deleted all my stuff on there a few years back


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 6, 2014)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Two BF shares this week from Facebook friends. One was about a paeodo who got a light sentance, the other about MP's pay. The first deleted the post when I let him know about the dodginess of the organisation behind it, and I'm hoping the second guy will do the same. It seems that the 'popularity' of BF on Facebook stems more from their ability to produce memes that resonate widely with people, yet don't directly mention their underlying agenda. I doubt many people would 'like' them for their core beliefs.


My brother shared a D-day thing they put up early. Hopefully never looked/knew/cared where it came from.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 6, 2014)

Few BF posts shared onto my timeline about D-Day. I hate organisations hijacking these sort of events.

To me D-Day represents the best of humanity and self sacrifice and to have scumbags using it to whip up hate sickens me


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2014)

RE: Britain First, are they a offshoot of the EDL?, will we see increasingly more radical break aways as the EDL decomposes, etc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2014)

treelover said:


> RE: Britain First, are they a offshoot of the EDL?, will we see increasingly more radical break aways as the EDL decomposes, etc.




not by the look of it no, they're a project backed by one bloke out of NI. If you look at wiki theres info around how involved he and the people in the group were involved in the NI fleg protest stuff of last year


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 8, 2014)

treelover said:


> RE: Britain First, are they a offshoot of the EDL?, will we see increasingly more radical break aways as the EDL decomposes, etc.


No, they're a BNP splinter that was formed by Jim Dowson, a former BNP Northern Ireland organiser/call centre operator and Ulster Loyalist. The BNP moved its operations to NI after it decided it wasn't getting anywhere on the 'mainland'. The main man is Paul Golding, a former BNP councillor for Sevenoaks.

Wikipedia entry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_First


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 9, 2014)

http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/12-things-britain-first.html


----------



## KeeperofDragons (Jun 10, 2014)

Interestingly none of my friends share anything from these gits now


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 10, 2014)

interesting that they can gain so much likeage and traction (unbought) on facebook but have near zero relevance to actual life. Like how a fart in the car affects only those in the car and dissipates when the window is wound down.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 10, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/12-things-britain-first.html


Got bollocked by one twit who'd repeatedly shared BF stuff for sharing that page because "I thought you were against britain first and that's one of theirs".   

Seldom have I been so tempted to maliciously quote the first 2 lines of "Dear Lord and Father of mankind" at somebody who's a far more devout Christian than I ever was.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 10, 2014)

I hope none of my friends fall for this shite. 

I don't use facebook, and groups like this make me glad.


----------



## tufty79 (Jun 10, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Seldom have I been so tempted to maliciously quote the first 2 lines of "Dear Lord and Father of mankind" at somebody who's a far more devout Christian than I ever was.



o still, small voice of calm


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 10, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/12-things-britain-first.html


Posted that as a comment to my uncle when he shared some image macro about singing the national anthem in ALL BRITISH SCHOOLS, but he deleted my comment and sent a message saying that he won't be told what to believe on Facebook in front of his peers. Knobber.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I hope none of my friends fall for this shite.
> 
> I don't use facebook, and groups like this make me glad.


that being the case why are you so staunch in your defence of racist behaviour on that thread about america?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> interesting that they can gain so much likeage and traction (unbought) on facebook but have near zero relevance to actual life. Like how a fart in the car affects only those in the car and dissipates when the window is wound down.



What's also interesting is the degree of thought and intent behind choosing the memes they're playing with and adding to.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> What's also interesting is the degree of thought and intent behind choosing the memes they're playing with and adding to.




the language of signs and symbols again eh


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 11, 2014)

double post (dratted connection!  )


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the language of signs and symbols again eh


That's almost de Saussurian, or Barthesian or something...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 19, 2014)

slow news day:


----------



## krink (Jun 19, 2014)

they are over the moon about this coverage, can't buy propaganda like this. also HNH/Searchlight will be rubbing their hands thinking of new revenue streams for this new 'threat'


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 19, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> slow news day:



That's a rather short news item. I'd expect it to be longer that 0.35 seconds. Weird.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 19, 2014)

they are drawing a lot of attention. they are also backed by 'diamond' jim dowson and led by paul golding who is a fuckbiscuit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> they are drawing a lot of attention. they are also backed by 'diamond' jim dowson and led by paul golding who is a fuckbiscuit.


both golding's parents euro candidates for bf


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah, I know about Dowson and Golding. Dowson has strong connections with Loyalist paramilitaries, which explains BF's love of uniforms and parades. Dowson was involved in the 'fleg' protests in 2012.

[to the tune of Lesley Gore's "It's My Party"] "It's my fleg and I'll fly if I want to"...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21630704

I see he's also formed another party called Protestant Coalition.


----------



## krink (Jun 19, 2014)

the full thing is on ch4 news tonight i believe


----------



## framed (Jun 19, 2014)

Celtic Britain First


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> That's almost de Saussurian, or Barthesian or something...



Given that Barthes' work proceeds from what could be called a Saussurian perspective, it could be called both!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2014)

krink said:


> they are over the moon about this coverage, can't buy propaganda like this. also HNH/Searchlight will be rubbing their hands thinking of new revenue streams for this new 'threat'



I like your cynicism, young man!


----------



## krink (Jun 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I like your cynicism, young man!



young? why sir!


----------



## krink (Jun 19, 2014)

framed said:


> Celtic Britain First



Keep the Mound Round!


----------



## Dan U (Jun 19, 2014)

they may be a bit jumpy about the attention

from Brian Whelan's twitter


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 19, 2014)

"British First Defence Force"?

Krishna wept!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 19, 2014)

krink said:


> the full thing is on ch4 news tonight i believe


During the Engerland match?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 19, 2014)

Christ that's some fucking brass neck right there.


----------



## krink (Jun 19, 2014)

what's the difference between on-line and the internet?


----------



## krink (Jun 19, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> During the Engerland match?



before 7 - 8. match kicks off 8. just what i heard.


----------



## Manter (Jun 19, 2014)

God they need to employ a copywriter. That positively adolescent.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2014)

expect them


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 19, 2014)

krink said:


> before 7 - 8. match kicks off 8. just what i heard.


Either way it'll be footage of grown english blokes behaving like thugs.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 19, 2014)

Flipped over to C4+1 at half time, think I've missed the article, but they're now pitting Rod Liddle against Yasmin Ali-Brown. Liddle speaking out for the 'white working class' and berating the 'liberal left'. Weird how libertarian fuckwits suddenly *love* the working class.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2014)

Dan U said:


> they may be a bit jumpy about the attention
> 
> from Brian Whelan's twitter


i suspect they will face them, in the dock, when they're up for eg stalking


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 19, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Flipped over to C4+1 at half time, think I've missed the article, but they're now pitting Rod Liddle against Yasmin Ali-Brown. Liddle speaking out for the 'white working class' and berating the 'liberal left'. Weird how libertarian fuckwits suddenly *love* the working class.



Liddles not that bad - Who's the twat I always get him mixed up with? Now  _he's_ a wanker. Quentin Letts - That's the prick. AFAIC Liddle's a bit of a prick but essentially an ok guy.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 19, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Liddles not that bad - Who's the twat I always get him mixed up with? Now  _he's_ a wanker. Quentin Letts - That's the prick. AFAIC Liddle's a bit of a prick but essentially an ok guy.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 19, 2014)

Don't mind him, me.


----------



## Red About Town (Jun 20, 2014)

http://www.channel4.com/news/britain-first-far-right-anti-muslim-extremists-mosques


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2014)

HnH on BF: 
http://hopenothate.org.uk/britain-first/


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 20, 2014)

C4 thing was a bit 'laughing at the clowns' - didn't really let the group explain themselves (in philosophical terms), or give much time to a counter argument. Not sure if this helps. Still, the whole playing at toy soldiers thing is pretty ridiculous, especially the walkie talkies.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> C4 thing was a bit 'laughing at the clowns' - didn't really let the group explain themselves (in philosophical terms), or give much time to a counter argument. Not sure if this helps. Still, the whole playing at toy soldiers thing is pretty ridiculous, especially the walkie talkies.


yeh. walkie-talkies lose much of their range in urban areas.


----------



## pesh (Jun 20, 2014)

if i was a car park barrier i'd be bricking it.


----------



## steeplejack (Jun 20, 2014)

I imediately thought of malatesta when they drove straight into the car park barrier. 



Jim Dowson has money and has started *so many* Loyalist / fascist groupuscules that I find it really hard to believ he is not "on the books" somewhere. A really nasty piece of work.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 20, 2014)

If Johnny 'Mad Dog' Adair hasn't joined these pricks, I'd be surprised.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 20, 2014)

steeplejack said:


> Jim Dowson has money and has started *so many* Loyalist / fascist groupuscules that I find it really hard to believ he is not "on the books" somewhere. A really nasty piece of work.



Wonder if he gets any backing from the far right in the US, given his past/links?  He was quite smug about shifting the political agenda to the right and making space for UKIP to emerge, though probably giving himself too much credit - newspapers have done a lot of that work already.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 20, 2014)

pesh said:


> if i was a car park barrier i'd be bricking it.



Looks like the Blazing Saddles method of combating fascism is a non-starter. I thought they could be defeated with a series of toll booths requiring payment of a fascist tax, but the armoured land rover will just bust straight through. Wankers.


----------



## Bakunin (Jun 20, 2014)

And their head of media relations is clearly a tactical and strategic visionary...

http://www.nuj.org.uk/news/nuj-condemns-britain-first-attempts-to-intimidate-journalists/


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2014)

does anyone have electronic copies of 'sovereignty' from 2011-issue one of this year? pls pm if you do.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2014)

steeplejack said:


> I imediately thought of malatesta when they drove straight into the car park barrier.



pour qoui?


----------



## steeplejack (Jun 20, 2014)

ach, it's the kind of fuckwitted mishap you usually write up in a merciless way on your site


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2014)

cheeky wee radge! we do quality journalisms us do!


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 6, 2014)

This is what passes as "ant-fascism" these days, taking the piss out of them on social media.. that really sorts them out!! This was posted by the page Britain Furst on facebook... yeah well done lads... you got into such close proximity and didn't batter the cunts !!! It's all just a big joke to these arseholes


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 6, 2014)

tbh, 90% of activism seems to "take place" on social media these days.  it's fucking ridiculous.  not that i don't spend loads of time moaning about the state of things on social media, but at least i don't call it activism!  (or spreading awareness )


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 6, 2014)

That's my gripe with this el-ahrairah  these idiots try and pass themselves off as activists.. it's a joke


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 6, 2014)

Britain 'Furst'?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2014)

yeah, it's the deliberate misspelling of words to mock the literacy skills of fascists on the internet. Tremble, nazis.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 6, 2014)

Quick run down on their roadshow

Glasgow - 18 turned up to be met by 100+ anti fascists. Most of the 18 were the halfwits who invade mosques
Newcastle 13 turned up. Most of the 13 were the halfwits who invade mosques
Sheffield - Landlord cancelled on them and told them to fuck off when they turned up and he realised who they were.  Called the police on them. Meeting got cancelled.
Wigan - Ongoing now - around eight turned up in addition to the halfwits who invade mosques - 20 or so anti fascists on the scene

Massive turnout considering they have 500k Facebook likes.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 6, 2014)

i don't really have a problem with people taking the piss out of them.  i think mockery is a very important part of combating fascism - make them look absurd, you know.  Celtic Britain First do it perfectly.  But mockery on its own is not enough.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 6, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> i don't really have a problem with people taking the piss out of them.  i think mockery is a very important part of combating fascism - make them look absurd, you know.  Celtic Britain First do it perfectly.  But mockery on its own is not enough.



Depends on what the mockery is about.  More often than not it's naked, class-based sneering which is counter-productive (from a progressive, pro-working class point of view).

A twat pretending to be eastern European ran away from the forum a couple of months ago for coming out with 'chav' shit re fascism on the Ukraine thread and getting a robust response from people here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2014)

Fingers said:


> Quick run down on their roadshow
> 
> Glasgow - 18 turned up to be met by 100+ anti fascists. Most of the 18 were the halfwits who invade mosques
> Newcastle 13 turned up. Most of the 13 were the halfwits who invade mosques
> ...


according to hope not hate they have 1500 members.

1450 of whom don't seem to do anything.


----------



## toggle (Jul 6, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> i don't really have a problem with people taking the piss out of them.  i think mockery is a very important part of combating fascism - make them look absurd, you know.  Celtic Britain First do it perfectly.  But mockery on its own is not enough.



I'm still trying to work out exactly who is behind that. I have my suspicions.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 13, 2014)

They dun like another mosque invasion today, really good one an all, like 4 of them against some old muslim guy..... they got offended by the entrance signs for brothers and sisters and the massive cross on it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 15, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They dun like another mosque invasion today, really good one an all, like 4 of them against some old muslim guy..... they got offended by the entrance signs for brothers and sisters and the massive cross on it.



WTAF! 



> *Britain First 'battalion' invades mosque demanding removal of 'sexist' entrance signs *





> The “invasion” is one of many conducted by Britain First, which has been known to carry out “Christian patrols” in ethnically diverse areas and hand out Bibles to Muslims.



Given that many Muslims recognise Jesus as a prophet these twits are obviously not that bright. 


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...removal-of-sexist-entrance-signs-9607978.html


----------



## treelover (Jul 15, 2014)

3 big guys against one old man, can't see how that will get 'respect' from anyone...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 15, 2014)

treelover said:


> 3 big guys against one old man, can't see how that will get 'respect' from anyone...



Interesting that they didn't 'invade' during evening prayer when the mosque was full...oh wait, they didn't do that  because it would be disrespectful right?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 15, 2014)

What frightens me is the potential for like-minded muslim extremists to retaliate by doing the same in churches. BF needs banning and imprisoning before things spiral out of control


----------



## Humberto (Jul 15, 2014)

Rutita1 said:


> Given that many Muslims recognise Jesus as a prophet these twits are obviously not that bright.



Don't think that matters tbh.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 15, 2014)

Humberto said:


> Don't think that matters tbh.



Obviously not! Handing a Muslim a bible like it's the worst thing you could do is the point. 

How many of these Christian Crusaders do you think actually go to church each sunday? 

They are idiotic troublemakers. No more.


----------



## Humberto (Jul 16, 2014)

Rutita1 said:


> Obviously not! Handing a Muslim a bible like it's the worst thing you could do is the point.
> 
> How many of these Christian Crusaders do you think actually go to church each sunday?
> 
> They are idiotic troublemakers. No more.



Its just that they can't even talk to others of different faiths without attacking. Sorry but thats the planet we live on. They are ALL meant to value peace as one of their core beliefs or so i've been led to believe.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 16, 2014)

Humberto said:


> Its just that they can't even talk to others of different faiths without attacking. Sorry but thats the planet we live on. They are ALL meant to value peace at their core or so i've been led to believe.



I hear ya but the issue here for me is that the motivation for talking to others is to attack, not that they are not capable of it. It's a shitty game they are playing.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 16, 2014)

"No fear. No retreat. No surrender"

Yep, battling against the odds, taking the fight to a little old man, outnumbered one-to-five.  Brave warriors of the Master Race.


_Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. Section 5(1):
"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:
(a) uses threatening [or abusive] words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening [or abusive],
within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."_


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2014)

they speak in terms of divisions and battalions. which shows how deluded they are. the worst thing is that their buffoonery is being reported on so much.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 16, 2014)

Rutita1 said:


> WTAF!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bibles they no doubt haven't read.

I wonder if their 'uniforms' included mixed fabrics?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 16, 2014)

treelover said:


> 3 big guys against one old man, can't see how that will get 'respect' from anyone...


Nothing says equality like a couple of big burly men invading a mosque.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 16, 2014)

cynicaleconomy said:


> What frightens me is the potential for like-minded muslim extremists to retaliate by doing the same in churches. BF needs banning and imprisoning before things spiral out of control


 
Weren't there "Muslim patrols" already?

The whole fucking "our area" thing is pathetic. Its just a bunch of dopey caucasians with literally no sense of historical context of the country having a massive circle jerk egging each other to have a game of knock down ginger on any building thats slightly "muslamic" or anywhere where they might get a camera point at them.

What does worry me is there clever media game, they're making themselves look strong in numbers and support, when people are actually really just supporting the causes shown by mistreated animals etc.... Pre-existing support (even if it is fake) encourages others to follow suit. Thats dangerous.

Have they got a freepost address yet?


----------



## Theisticle (Jul 16, 2014)

The Muslim patrol was at best 5 idiotic individuals. Britain First are actively trying to recruit army individuals for their street defence org, they've run "fight club" style self-defence classes. Their "Christian Patrols" involve driving around Tower Hamlets in an armoured vehicle and harassing individuals.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Bibles they no doubt haven't read.
> 
> I wonder if their 'uniforms' included mixed fabrics?


Second piece of expert biblical scholarship in two days. What do you think Acts 10:15 was about? In fact, what do you think the whole New Testament was about?

What do BF roadshows consist of btw? They're supposed to be doing one in Bristol this weekend. I gather it's just an old style meeting in venues rather than anything else?


----------



## Theisticle (Jul 16, 2014)

I'm under the impression that it's at a venue that you need to call a specific BF phone number an hour or so beforehand to confirm the location. 

"Several of the re-direction points have now been released and are available on our "events" section below.
These meetings will include speeches, a multimedia presentation, questions and answers and a buffet."

https://www.britainfirst.org/event/bristol-rally-national-tour-2014/


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> I'm under the impression that it's at a venue that you need to call a specific BF phone number an hour or so beforehand to confirm the location.
> 
> "Several of the re-direction points have now been released and are available on our "events" section below.
> These meetings will include speeches, a multimedia presentation, questions and answers and a buffet."
> ...


Yeah, just looks like old school meetings chegwined/roadshowed up really:


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jul 16, 2014)

I keep checking the FB Bristol anti fash page to see if it's worth coming to a counter demo from Swindon on Sunday. Bet they cancel after I buy a train ticket :-(


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2014)

even the fuckbugles on VNN and stormfront think its a 'diamond' jim dowson con.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 16, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> The Muslim patrol was at best 5 idiotic individuals. Britain First are actively trying to recruit army individuals for their street defence org, they've run "fight club" style self-defence classes. Their "Christian Patrols" involve driving around Tower Hamlets in an armoured vehicle and harassing individuals.



Did you see the clip where they broke the car park entrance barrier by mistake


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 16, 2014)

There needs to be a parody group that follows them 'on patrol' called 'Britain Fist' which has a flesh-coloured landrover and a small squad of 'crack troops' in military-themed fetishwear.  Don't think they'd get much of a welcome on Brick Lane either though.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 16, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> There needs to be a parody group that follows them 'on patrol' called 'Britain Fist' which has a flesh-coloured landrover and a small squad of 'crack troops' in military-themed fetishwear.  Don't think they'd get much of a welcome on Brick Lane either though.









?


----------



## Geri (Jul 16, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> I keep checking the FB Bristol anti fash page to see if it's worth coming to a counter demo from Swindon on Sunday. Bet they cancel after I buy a train ticket :-(


 
If they do you can visit the Harbourside Festival instead.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jul 16, 2014)

Rutita1 said:


> WTAF!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe one idea is a little bit less attention from mass media on tiny extremist groups.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 28, 2014)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-first-founder-quits-over-3923810

Dowson quits, and turns off the funding, stunned and amazed that mosque invasions have attracted extremists and racists.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jul 28, 2014)

After pressure from fellow 'evangelical chistians' for which read the heavy mob in Norn Iron where Jim lives.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 28, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-first-founder-quits-over-3923810
> 
> Dowson quits, and turns off the funding, stunned and amazed that mosque invasions have attracted extremists and racists.




Looks like MI5 may have told Dowson to pull the plug, why else would he give up such a lucrative business ? Or maybe he was not getting a good return on his investment ?

Dowson is ex BNP, racists cant be the reason.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 28, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Looks like MI5 may have told Dowson to pull the plug, why else would he give up such a lucrative business ? Or maybe he was not getting a good return on his investment ?
> 
> Dowson is ex BNP, racists cant be the reason.




Fancy a bum?


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 28, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Fancy a bum?



Jimmy saville bummed your dead mum.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 28, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Jimmy saville bummed your dead mum.



It was consensual though - And I was born out of her bottom nine months later so every cloud...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-first-founder-quits-over-3923810
> 
> Dowson quits, and turns off the funding, stunned and amazed that mosque invasions have attracted extremists and racists.


where next for yer man?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 29, 2014)

Look at yer _maaan_ there


----------



## The Pale King (Jul 29, 2014)

Interesting bit of rhetoric from the Prime Minister today:

"The Government will make changes to the immigration system that put “Britain first” and ensure that the UK is “a country that is not a soft touch”, Mr Cameron says. “We changed the rules so that no one can come to this country and expect to get out-of-work benefits immediately; they must wait at least three months,” Mr Cameron adds."

From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...announces-immigration-benefits-crackdown.html


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 29, 2014)

says a man who hasn't simply never wanted for anything, of the everything he had and has its always been best of the best. All that money thieved and banked offshore. Vermin.


----------



## Jay Park (Jul 29, 2014)

The Pale King said:


> Interesting bit of rhetoric from the Prime Minister today:
> 
> "The Government will make changes to the immigration system that put “Britain first” and ensure that the UK is “a country that is not a soft touch”, Mr Cameron says. “We changed the rules so that no one can come to this country and expect to get out-of-work benefits immediately; they must wait at least three months,” Mr Cameron adds."
> 
> From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...announces-immigration-benefits-crackdown.html



the same length of time returning expats have to wait for out of work benefits


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> View attachment 58547
> 
> Look at yer _maaan_ there


so, francis, which group do you think dowson will next bankroll and break?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 30, 2014)

No idea.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 10, 2014)

Jim Dowson has left the building...

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/britain-first/waving-goodbye/


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2014)

I see they made the newspapers today, for doing a linda bellingham meme. Headlines call them fascists


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2014)

must be a slow news day 'facebook church n king mob do a picture of dead minor celeb' stop press


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I see they made the newspapers today, for doing a linda bellingham meme. Headlines call them fascists


only, the mirror and mail mail don't call them "fascist" in their headlines.



			
				daily mail said:
			
		

> *Facebook tribute page to Lynda Bellingham targeted by Far Right: Splinter group of the BNP uses photo to trick people into visiting page that supports fascist views*






			
				daily mirror said:
			
		

> *Lynda Bellingham's death exploited on Facebook by far-right extremists*


*just the sun call them fascist*



			
				the sun said:
			
		

> *Fascist group uses death of Lynda Bellingham to spread views*


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> only the mirror and mail mail don't call the "fascist" in their headlines.




one of the redtops has, I saw it in the shop when getting milk and coffee. I'll pop to the garage in a bit and find out which one


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> one of the redtops has, I saw it in the shop when getting milk and coffee. I'll pop to the garage in a bit and find out which one


it's the sun as per my post


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 24, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> the same length of time returning expats have to wait for out of work benefits


Three months. Lovely. Plenty of time for them to slip into the black economy or outright criminality.

Mammon bless capitalism.


----------



## Kalfindin (Oct 25, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> only, the mirror and mail mail don't call them "fascist" in their headlines.
> 
> *just the sun call them fascist*




They are not fascist in the traditional meaning of the world. They are xenophobic, conservative, small minded, bigoted etc, but that's does not necessarily mean fascist. They are a real life version of the Daily Mail.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> They are not fascist in the traditional meaning of the world. They are xenophobic, conservative, small minded, bigoted etc, but that's does not necessarily mean fascist. They are a real life version of the Daily Mail.


where did i say i considered them fascist?


----------



## Kalfindin (Oct 26, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> where did i say i considered them fascist?




Where did I say you did ? You posted a reply stating the Sun did, wakey, wakey.


----------



## Kalfindin (Oct 26, 2014)

...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Where did I say you did ? You posted a reply stating the Sun did, wakey, wakey.


fucking wakey wakey yourself you cunt, don't go round correcting me when you should be correcting the fucking sun.


----------



## Kalfindin (Oct 26, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> fucking wakey wakey yourself you cunt, don't go round correcting me when you should be correcting the fucking sun.




You made a reference to the Sun, stupid boy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> You made a reference to the Sun, stupid boy.


yes. because another poster said papers had called bf fascist. only the sun did in their headline. so fucking correct the sun and leave me alone.


----------



## Kalfindin (Oct 26, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. because another poster said papers had called bf fascist. only the sun did in their headline. so fucking correct the sun and leave me alone.




Hence my point in regards to your reference, are you on stupid pills ?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> ...


Best thing you said all day you plastic fucking hardman.


----------



## Kalfindin (Oct 26, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Best thing you said all day you plastic fucking hardman.



anorak man lol.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> anorak man lol.


_Hello, i'm kal and i'm facking rock. I'll take any of you - 25 quid, there, on the table. Anyone?
_
You're a fairground attraction.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Hence my point in regards to your reference, are you on stupid pills ?


no, i went to the shop for something else and they told me you'd taken the lot.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> _Hello, i'm kal and i'm facking rock. I'll take any of you - 25 quid, there, on the table. Anyone?
> _
> You're a fairground attraction.


fairground attractions are fun


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> fairground attractions are fun


Not this sort:

_It's got to be perfect
It's got to be worth it
Yeah.
Too many people take second best
But I won't take anything less
It's got to be
Yeah
Perfect.
_
And that was kals' best.


----------



## Limerick Red (Nov 16, 2014)

http://londonantifascists.wordpress.com/2014/11/16/britain-first-stopped-in-rochester/


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 16, 2014)

BF FB site says that it was the coppers who sabotaged their march.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2014)

something here if you can get it going: 
http://www.itv.com/news/meridian/up...-as-rochester-by-election-campaign-continues/


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2014)

not-bono-ever said:


> BF FB site says that it was the coppers who sabotaged their march.


so it must be true!!!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 17, 2014)

poor BF, hated by anarchists, hippies, liberals, communists  and the filth


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2014)

BF also admitting that they were run but not sure if by plod or not. antifascists did block the march though.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 19, 2015)

So britain first has started printing a newspaper 

They've had trouble finding a printer to do it it seems, so all that needs to be found out is what printers have gone ahead with it.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2015)

sim667 said:


> So britain first has started printing a newspaper
> 
> They've had trouble finding a printer to do it it seems, so all that needs to be found out is what printers have gone ahead with it.



To do what?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2015)

sim667 said:


> So britain first has started printing a newspaper
> 
> They've had trouble finding a printer to do it it seems, so all that needs to be found out is what printers have gone ahead with it.


i would have thought their biggest obstacle would be finding people who could string a sentence together


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> To do what?


stare meaningfully into their eyes by candlelight?


----------



## Ungrateful (Mar 19, 2015)

Why do Britain First need another newspaper? They have _The Daily Mail_, _The Express_, _The Sun_ and _The Star_ already.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 19, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> To do what?



Mention it on Facebook and change.org.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> stare meaningfully into their eyes by candlelight?


Send them flowers and chocolates first.....

We can't just jump straight into these things.

The stupidest thing about the paper is its £1 an issue, but if you take out a subscription for £15, you get 6 copies.... WHAT A STEAL!


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 19, 2015)

sim667 said:


> The stupidest thing about the paper is its £1 an issue, but if you take out a subscription for £15, you get 6 copies.... WHAT A STEAL!



I've not seen it but I am willing to hazard a guess that there are stupider things about it than the pricing structure.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I've not seen it but I am willing to hazard a guess that there are stupider things about it than the pricing structure.


it is indeed no good thing to have started on such a wrong footing, at the top of the front page. as you surmise - no doubt correctly - things will get worse from there.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 29, 2015)

War veterans to hold counter protest in Dudley when Britain First comes to town
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...t-in-dudley-when-britain-first-comes-to-town/

Fair play.


----------



## Nylock (Apr 30, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Send them flowers and chocolates first.....
> 
> We can't just jump straight into these things.
> 
> The stupidest thing about the paper is its £1 an issue, but if you take out a subscription for £15, you get 6 copies.... WHAT A STEAL!


..so maths not their strong suit either...



/coat


----------



## albionism (Apr 30, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> War veterans to hold counter protest in Dudley when Britain First comes to town
> http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...t-in-dudley-when-britain-first-comes-to-town/
> 
> Fair play.


They reckon BF will get 2000 onto the streets. I doubt that. Fair play to the veterans counter protesting.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 30, 2015)

albionism said:


> They reckon BF will get 2000 onto the streets. I doubt that. Fair play to the veterans counter protesting.



absolute nonsense journalism. they have a handful of supporters. the 2k figure is based on bought facebook likes.


----------



## albionism (Apr 30, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> absolute nonsense journalism. they have a handful of supporters. the 2k figure is based on bought facebook likes.


Indeed. Check out footage of their previous ventures away from the keyboard, a couple of dozen fuckmuppets at most. Gullible people clicking "like" on a photo of a starved dog does not a mass movement make.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2015)

albionism said:


> Indeed. Check out footage of their previous ventures away from the keyboard, a couple of dozen fuckmuppets at most.


a fuck is something many of those muppets are unlikely to enjoy in the near future.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2015)

albionism said:


> They reckon BF will get 2000 onto the streets. I doubt that. Fair play to the veterans counter protesting.


i think they could get out 2,000 antis.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

Have they ever been lamped by anyone?  They swagger about a bit in toy soldier outfits but they're not like the EDL which are a bit less disciplined and fighty.


----------



## Fedayn (Apr 30, 2015)

They were in Cumbernauld last night.


----------



## gamerunknown (Apr 30, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i think they could get out 2,000 antis.



Same day as Waltham Forest, which'll depress numbers a bit. Recent MfE saw fewer than 100 counter-demonstrators from what I could tell.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2015)

The Biffers have had their Facebook page shut down. 
Facebook


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 30, 2015)

I will have to move my interest to knight templar or league of british patriots then


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2015)

English Democrats always welcome a fellow briton


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 30, 2015)

Sell some tidy fucking badges mind them Templar guys, all like swards and shit on em.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 30, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> The Biffers have had their Facebook page shut down.
> Facebook



This is good but bear in mind that last time this happened they got it back.  I hope they have been busted for buying hundreds of thousands of 'likes'.

Golding is going to be fuming.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 30, 2015)

They are fuming! WE ARE GOING TO TAKE FACEBOOK TO COURT. GIVE US SOME MONEY SHEEP.


----------



## Jay Park (Nov 30, 2015)

'Time is of the essence' .......... the cliched wankers


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 30, 2015)

It's ok, they will ask for more monies now, for stuff and things to save the UK


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 30, 2015)

Odd to see BF moan about their FB page being taken down when they and their ilk spend so much time encouraging folk to report-bomb other pages, presumably in the name of "free speech".


----------



## Fingers (Nov 30, 2015)

It is back.  It was attempt to fleece some more cash out of the tools that follow them

Britain First


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2015)

Cunts.


----------



## Sirena (Nov 30, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> The Biffers have had their Facebook page shut down.
> Facebook


It's still up....


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2015)

Sirena said:


> It's still up....


Have you heard of this thing called time?


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2015)

Sirena said:


> It's still up....


See #457


----------



## Sirena (Nov 30, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> See #457


I saw that eventually....


----------



## J Ed (Nov 30, 2015)

They are back, which is great news for a tiny number of racists and their hundreds of thousands of Bangladeshi sockpuppets.


----------



## purves grundy (Nov 30, 2015)

So was this defo all staged?


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 1, 2015)

Porb, it's a good time to get the begging bowl out, same as when the website gets "hacked" and they need money for better HTTPS's


----------



## NoXion (Dec 1, 2015)

J Ed said:


> They are back, which is great news for a tiny number of racists and their hundreds of thousands of Bangladeshi sockpuppets.



Wait, are you saying that these types set up fake accounts pretending to Bangladeshi? To what purpose?


----------



## J Ed (Dec 1, 2015)

NoXion said:


> Wait, are you saying that these types set up fake accounts pretending to Bangladeshi? To what purpose?



Britain First stripped of 150,000 fake Facebook likes | EDL News


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 1, 2015)

Surely best to allow these muppets to have their silly page. At least we get to know who the twats are to avoid.


----------



## Beckthespeck (Dec 1, 2015)

Sign this petition, let's make it happen again for good
GET BRITAIN FIRST BANNED FOR GOOD


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 2, 2015)

The Nartzees would have been strangled at birth if only Facebook had shut down the NSDAP page back in 1933


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 2, 2015)

Beckthespeck said:


> Sign this petition, let's make it happen again for good
> GET BRITAIN FIRST BANNED FOR GOOD



You do their job for them. You realise that, don't you?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> The Nartzees would have been strangled at birth if only Facebook had shut down the NSDAP page back in 1933


you may mock but the reichstag fire was the work of one commited redditor


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Dec 2, 2015)

I had to giggle at the 'boo boo freedom of speech' angle. Last time I checked it wasn't a private company's responsibility to provide thick people a platform for their bollocks.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> The Nartzees would have been strangled at birth if only Facebook had shut down the NSDAP page back in 1933



1920.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 9, 2016)

You could not make this shit up


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2016)

teqniq said:


> You could not make this shit up


----------



## Sea Star (Feb 9, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> there was some goods stuff obv - but the mainstream was shit. look at what was in the top 10 between 78 and 82 and compare with 82 - 89. And the bunnymen and the cures best stuff was pre 82.


hasn't the mainstream always been shit?


----------



## belboid (Feb 9, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> And the bunnymen and the cures best stuff was pre 82.


Porcupine 1983
Ocean Rain 1984
The Top 1984
Head On The Door 1985


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 9, 2016)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Last time I checked it wasn't a private company's responsibility to provide thick people a platform for their bollocks.


 
I smell a business opportunity...

*PratChat ™ 
providing thick people with
a platform for their bollocks
- EST. 2016 -*​


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 9, 2016)

AuntiStella said:


> hasn't the mainstream always been shit?



Well - no. Through much of the 60s, the late 70s-early 80s, and much of the 90s there was a lot of good and influential music breaking through amongst the usual mainstream pop. This was far less the case from  82ish to 89. Most of the significant alternative artists from the period - smiths, pixies, emerging hip hop artists, REM, Husker Du, Sonic Youth, Violent Femmes, My Bloody Valentine - rarely, if ever, troubled the top ten - and you would rarely hear them on the radio or TV outside of john peel.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 9, 2016)

belboid said:


> Porcupine 1983
> Ocean Rain 1984
> The Top 1984
> Head On The Door 1985



I'll give you the first two - got my dates wrong. All downhill after ocean rain though.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 9, 2016)

And why the fuck are we arguing about 80s music on a thread about Britain Furst?

Ah right - 18 months ago Malatesa mentioned "shit music" being a feature of the 80s and it went from there.


----------



## belboid (Feb 9, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> I'll give you the first two - got my dates wrong. All downhill after ocean rain though.


can't argue with that.



Kaka Tim said:


> And why the fuck are we arguing about 80s music on a thread about Britain Furst?


nor that


----------



## NoXion (Feb 9, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> And why the fuck are we arguing about 80s music on a thread about Britain Furst?



*Britian* Furst, shurely.


----------



## Sea Star (Feb 9, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Well - no. Through much of the 60s, the late 70s-early 80s, and much of the 90s there was a lot of good and influential music breaking through amongst the usual mainstream pop. This was far less the case from  82ish to 89. Most of the significant alternative artists from the period - smiths, pixies, emerging hip hop artists, REM, Husker Du, Sonic Youth, Violent Femmes, My Bloody Valentine - rarely, if ever, troubled the top ten - and you would rarely hear them on the radio or TV outside of john peel.


I always see the brief period post punk from about 78 till 82 as a bit of an anomaly as good stuff did get through occasionally even though I was, as a kid, still mostly frustrated by the stuff I liked getting nowhere at all. I used to look back at charts from 70s and 60s and in my view at least it really was full of utter dross. And after 1982 I gave up listening to the charts altogether.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 10, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> I'll give you the first two - got my dates wrong. All downhill after ocean rain though.



Bring on the Dancing Horses still sounds good today though


----------



## teqniq (Mar 2, 2016)

Britain First stage hilariously pathetic protest outside a London mosque 



> Only a handful of far-right protesters have turned up to stage a “hapless” demonstration outside one of London’s largest mosques.
> 
> Fewer than 10 members of Britain First - including deputy leader Jayda Franken - showed up to picket the East London Mosque in Whitechapel...


----------



## albionism (Mar 2, 2016)

She claimed it was “[her] duty as a Christian to save fallen souls from the damned”. 
Chris Morris couldn't have ever written a line that good.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2016)

They look like they should be on Jeremy Kyle or something. They have that look about them.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 2, 2016)




----------



## chilango (Mar 2, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> They look like they should be on Jeremy Kyle or something. They have that look about them.



What w/c people about to be mocked by a privately educated posh boy? That kind of "look"?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 2, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> They look like they should be on Jeremy Kyle or something. They have that look about them.



Untermenschen?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2016)

chilango said:


> What w/c people about to be mocked by a privately educated posh boy? That kind of "look"?



no, the kind of violent thick as shit look. Nothing to do with w/c.


----------



## chilango (Mar 2, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> no, the kind of violent thick as shit look. Nothing to do with w/c.



Ok, cool.


----------



## rutabowa (Mar 2, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Ah right - 18 months ago Malatesa mentioned "shit music" being a feature of the 80s and it went from there.


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 2, 2016)

teqniq said:


>



Counter-productive classism?


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 2, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> no, the kind of violent thick as shit look. Nothing to do with w/c.



There will probably be some socialists with that 'look' but would you recognise them? 

Probably not.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 2, 2016)

seventh bullet said:


> There will probably be some socialists with that 'look' but would you recognise them?
> 
> Probably not.





skyscraper101 said:


> no, the kind of violent thick as shit look. Nothing to do with w/c.



don't be a dick


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 2, 2016)

If that makes me a 'dick' then I'll carry on being so.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 29, 2016)

Check out this massive faux pas by Jayda Fransen.

It begins with this



Then the people of Twitter line up to take the piss. 




Unable to cope with the volume of piss-taking Tweets, she flounces.


But 18 hours later and her account is still active. What a bullshitter.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 29, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> Check out this massive faux pas by Jayda Fransen.
> 
> It begins with this
> 
> ...





I'm beginning to think that biffers might not be all that bright!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 29, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> Unable to cope with the volume of piss-taking Tweets, she flounces.
> 
> 
> But 18 hours later and her account is still active. What a bullshitter.


She can't have been _that_ oblivious, surely? She must have known who Malcolm X was? I mean, I'm not expecting her to have any in-depth knowledge or have actually read anything, but given the rhetoric of her politics his very existence must have come up at some point...?


----------



## teqniq (Mar 29, 2016)

tonysingh said:


> I'm beginning to think that biffers might not be all that bright!


You might be on to something there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2016)

for posterity


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 29, 2016)

#AskJayda


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 29, 2016)

Maybe she meant "in proximity to". Not necessarily adjacent, more opposite...


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 29, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> #AskJayda


I think she's hoping for her own chatshow on Channel 5.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 29, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> She can't have been _that_ oblivious, surely? She must have known who Malcolm X was? I mean, I'm not expecting her to have any in-depth knowledge or have actually read anything, but given the rhetoric of her politics his very existence must have come up at some point...?


I don't think she's capable of making those kinds of connections. She's a postmodernist, so only the sign itself matters.


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 29, 2016)

well that beats the yoga prayer mats from last week


----------



## cantsin (Mar 29, 2016)

seventh bullet said:


> If that makes me a 'dick' then I'll carry on being so.



sorry, wasnt meant for you at all , shite quoting, agree with you 100 %


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 29, 2016)

steeplejack said:


> I imediately thought of malatesta when they drove straight into the car park barrier.
> 
> 
> 
> Jim Dowson has money and has started *so many* Loyalist / fascist groupuscules that I find it really hard to believ he is not "on the books" somewhere. A really nasty piece of work.



Most of the actual activity for many of these little groups was social media . Dowsons long running bail conditions prohibited him using any electronic communication device . It was regularly pointed out over here during the " fleggers " shenanigans he was breaching those conditions but not was done about it . Combine that with the very central role he played in the BNPs meltdown and it's not hard to get the picture .


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 29, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Wonder if he gets any backing from the far right in the US, given his past/links?  He was quite smug about shifting the political agenda to the right and making space for UKIP to emerge, though probably giving himself too much credit - newspapers have done a lot of that work already.



Any connections to US oddballs are most likely to come via his old mate Willy Frazer . He has regularly hosted a number of American visitors very little is known about . The assumption is he has regularly been ripping impressionable yanks off with his tales about " Protestant genocide " and the like . But there's been very little enquiry as to who these American visitors actually are .


----------



## cantsin (Mar 29, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> I'll give you the first two - got my dates wrong. All downhill after ocean rain though.



'Bring on the Dancing Horses' was a great valedictory single though tbf


----------



## Dogsauce (May 3, 2016)

BF's latest fuckwittery:

Britain First just 'invaded' a halal slaughterhouse. It went badly

(excuse the awful clickbaity title)


----------



## J Ed (May 3, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> BF's latest fuckwittery:
> 
> Britain First just 'invaded' a halal slaughterhouse. It went badly
> 
> (excuse the awful clickbaity title)



I know it's terrible, and it is, but there is something very Partridge like about that video


----------



## Ranbay (May 3, 2016)

x 1000


----------



## sim667 (May 4, 2016)

I wonder what church Fransen and Golding go to on sundays.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I wonder what church Fransen and Golding go to on sundays.



The Church of the Holy Martyr - just so they feel at home, like.


----------



## FNG (May 4, 2016)

If you want pure partridge the 2010 edl disrupting a KFC regional meeting is gold,funnier is the fact the perpetrators  present this as a triumph whilst the assorted middle managers can clearly be heard pissing themselves ending with a Mexican standoff when someone whips out their phone and films them filming him much to the annoyance of the narrator


----------



## brogdale (Feb 10, 2017)




----------



## bendeus (Feb 10, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 100270


----------



## october_lost (Feb 11, 2017)

Is it a spoof?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 11, 2017)

october_lost said:


> Is it a spoof?


Surely, "fake" not "spoof".


----------



## october_lost (Feb 11, 2017)

Alright then, is it 'fake'?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 11, 2017)

october_lost said:


> Alright then, is it 'fake'?


No idea, mate...but it's all here....


----------



## bimble (Feb 11, 2017)

it's a joke account but  a really good one.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 11, 2017)

bimble said:


> it's a joke account but  a really good one.
> View attachment 100280



Very funny.


----------



## october_lost (Feb 11, 2017)




----------



## A380 (Feb 12, 2017)

october_lost said:


>



It is fantastic. Hats off.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 13, 2017)

A380 said:


> It is fantastic. Hats off.



Is it actually a fake account?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2017)

Oh dear oh dear oh dear


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2017)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 16, 2017)

The39thStep said:


>


Deserves his own section in Angry People in Local Newspapers | Angry people. In local newspapers.


----------



## LiamO (Jul 16, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Oh dear oh dear oh dear




What a kingsize cock - who I suspect IRL has a very small cock.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 2, 2017)

These pricks are speaking in Belfast shortly

Britain First: Far-right party are to speak at Belfast rally


Belfast rally featuring far-right leaders to take place close to planned republican parade

Victim hits out at plan to unveil UDR flag at Belfast rally


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> These pricks are speaking in Belfast shortly
> 
> Britain First: Far-right party are to speak at Belfast rally
> 
> ...


i do hope you give them a warm belfast welcome


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 2, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i do hope you give them a warm belfast welcome



Looks like they might be fighting among each other

Loyalists accuse Britain First of hijacking Belfast protest - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Looks like they might be fighting among each other
> 
> Loyalists accuse Britain First of hijacking Belfast protest - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


oh i'd pay money to see that


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 2, 2017)

Think I'll toddle down for a nosey

Eta

The Anti internment march has been banned from the city centre, loyalists only permitted . Shared space my arse . Back to the 1980s .


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 6, 2017)




----------



## LiamO (Aug 7, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


>




Excellent aim. Shame it was such a lightweight missile.


----------



## moriah (Aug 7, 2017)

I see few videos of this in facebook.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 7, 2017)

LiamO said:


> Excellent aim. Shame it was such a lightweight missile.


Should have used a can of Mandarins.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 22, 2017)




----------



## Ming (Sep 22, 2017)

Badgers said:


>



There's not a subtle duality of meaning is there? I was going to say 'i'm not parsing that mess' but the problem is the message is clear. It's just the delivery isn't very um...erm...eloquent? Anyway Brits on the piss for Boris!!!! That legend. He's got piggy eyes our De Pfeffel. Never trust a man with piggy eyes.


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 22, 2017)

It's fake.  It's supposed to be 'funny' I think, but it comes from somewhere I would not think of as being progressive at all. Quite the opposite. 

Why do we have to deal with this kind of shite over and over, on here?


----------



## Ming (Sep 22, 2017)

seventh bullet said:


> It's fake.  It's supposed to be 'funny' I think, but it comes from somewhere I would not think of as being progressive at all. Quite the opposite.
> 
> Why do we have to deal with this kind of shite over and over, on here?


Never trust a man with piggy eyes....(it really is good advice). Can anyone think of a man with piggy eyes who was a good egg. A freshly cracked and perfectly fried good egg??


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 22, 2017)

Yes.


----------



## Ming (Sep 22, 2017)

Sorry Badgers. My mind is focused on one thing at the moment.


----------



## Ming (Sep 22, 2017)

seventh bullet said:


> Yes.


Who's the perfectly fried good egg with piggy eyes???


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 22, 2017)

Yes.


----------



## Ming (Sep 22, 2017)

seventh bullet said:


> Yes.


No...lol. Alright i am being silly.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 22, 2017)

Respect are countrey


----------



## chilango (Sep 22, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Respect are countrey



Respect are (or were) many things. But "cunty" seems a little harsh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> Respect are (or were) many things. But "cunty" seems a little harsh.


Did the ruc mp ever mention siberia in the hoc?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> Respect are (or were) many things. But "cunty" seems a little harsh.


Oh and no it doesn't. Pa's far less cunty than the ruc were


----------



## sim667 (Sep 29, 2017)

I don't know if anyones seen their facebook page lately. It seems that Jayda and Paul were arrested and charged over something here, and have fucked off to Switzerland to hide.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 29, 2017)

IN SWITZERLAND. SEND MONEY!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 29, 2017)

they promise to be  back for the Ramsgate demo and have pints with everyone , so it cant be that serious. lets hope they get a shoeing somewhere during their travels


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> they promise to be  back for the Ramsgate demo and have pints with everyone , so it cant be that serious. lets hope they get a shoeing by migrants somewhere during their travels


perhaps a beating at the hands of their erstwhile fellow believers for being migrants


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 29, 2017)

I am pretty easy about the vendors of the shoeing, pretty much anyone will do. They will have suitcases stuff with manky tenners from their booming merchandise  and tat sales, maybe looking to offshore it with them gnomes of Zurich.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 29, 2017)

They're just on a jolly and painting it as being on the run.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 29, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> IN SWITZERLAND. SEND MONEY!



Perfect comment for the video.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 29, 2017)

Bail was up For them this week for some seedy harassment thing . Pretty sure they have attended the cop shop and have been informed of the decision . Neither of them have the balls to actually go a runner for real. It's a lakes and  mountains jolly funded by members and supporters contributions but will be flogged as having to escape persecution in the UK


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 30, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> . It's a lakes and  mountains jolly funded by members and supporters contributions but will be flogged as having to escape persecution in the UK



perhaps they were looking for potential sites for an adolf-style "eagles nest" mountain hideaway?


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 18, 2017)

Twitter is telling me J-Den has been nicked in London this evening for something said at a rally in Belfast last year. Anybody know any more about this?


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 18, 2017)

PSNI arrest Britain First deputy leader


(August, not last year)


----------



## gosub (Nov 18, 2017)

Ming said:


> Never trust a man with piggy eyes....(it really is good advice). Can anyone think of a man with piggy eyes who was a good egg. A freshly cracked and perfectly fried good egg??


Pigsy was a good friend to Monkey


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Nov 19, 2017)

More detail on BF Deputy Leader arrest from the Graun:
Britain First deputy arrested over speech made at Belfast rally


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 20, 2017)

and charged

Britain First deputy leader charged by PSNI


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 7, 2018)

and found guilty

Britain First leaders found guilty of anti-Muslim hate crime

although not sure if its for the same thing, pretty sweet tho, depending on the sentence


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 7, 2018)

ruffneck23 said:


> and found guilty
> 
> Britain First leaders found guilty of anti-Muslim hate crime


turned out nice again


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 7, 2018)

the Penge martyrs


----------



## 8ball (Mar 7, 2018)

ruffneck23 said:


> and found guilty
> 
> Britain First leaders found guilty of anti-Muslim hate crime
> 
> although not sure if its for the same thing, pretty sweet tho, depending on the sentence



Oh, what a shame.  I liked those two.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 7, 2018)

Fransen was sentenced to 36 weeks imprisonment and Golding for 18 weeks


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Fransen was sentenced to 36 weeks imprisonment and Golding for 18 weeks



This has cheered me up, after a hard day.


----------



## elbows (Mar 7, 2018)

Nice of the donald to turn up to support them. Almost a primitive preview of what the future with AI-powered video fakery might look like, so realistic


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2018)

If anyone wants a laugh,the reaction comments from BF followers on their Facebook page are comedy gold


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 7, 2018)

Of course, we still have the Belfast case to be heard, let's hope they'll get even more time.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 7, 2018)

Its quite fantastic on their FB Page. Utterly seething poltroons


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 7, 2018)

This lot thrive on the sense of their own (often invented) victimhood, I suspect they're actually loving the attention.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Fransen was sentenced to 36 weeks imprisonment and Golding for 18 weeks



Those cheering on the state should remember our side will receive exactly the same treatment if and when the opportunity arises.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 7, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> This lot thrive on the sense of their own (often invented) victimhood, I suspect they're actually loving the attention.



The attention and the message is loads better than hours of campaigning and recruitment. 

‘Jailed by the political elites for confronting rapists and protecting working class British people etc’


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 7, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Those cheering on the state should remember our side will receive exactly the same treatment if and when the opportunity arises.


"The same treatment" being holding you to account legally for your actions, you mean????


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 7, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> "The same treatment" being holding you to account legally for your actions, you mean????



I mean disproportionate sentencing for political activity when the state wants to send a message.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 7, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I mean disproportionate sentencing for political activity when the state wants to send a message.


What do you think is an appropriate sentence for racial or religious harassment then?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 7, 2018)

What actual criminal offence did they get done for?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 7, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What actual criminal offence did they get done for?


Religiously aggravated harassment. Golding 1 count, Fransen 3.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I mean disproportionate sentencing for political activity when the state wants to send a message.


The only thing wrong with the sentence is that it’s not long enough for either of them.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 7, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Religiously aggravated harassment. Golding 1 count, Fransen 3.



That's what I read.  But under what act? I can't find the legislation.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 7, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> That's what I read.  But under what act? I can't find the legislation.


http://www.harassmentlaw.co.uk/race.htm#ee


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 7, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> What do you think is an appropriate sentence for racial or religious harassment then?



Consider what a similar charge of harassment would have involved (more than likely a fine) then add in the politically designed 'aggravating factors' and it is easy to see why the jail time allotted will look to many as wildly disproportionate. How does this help 'community cohesion' if that is the aim?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 7, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> Consider what a similar charge of harassment would have involved (more than likely a fine) then add in the politically designed 'aggravating factors' and it is easy to see why the jail time allotted will look to many as wildly disproportionate. How does this help 'community cohesion' if that is the aim?


how does shouting through the letterboxes of innocent people and calling them scum and rapists help 'community cohesion'?
also filming and uploading it, how would you feel if done to you for no reason other than your religion?
e2a and putting leaflets through the doors of your neighbours with false accusations


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 7, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> Consider what a similar charge of harassment would have involved (more than likely a fine) then add in the politically designed 'aggravating factors' and it is easy to see why the jail time allotted will look to many as wildly disproportionate. How does this help 'community cohesion' if that is the aim?



I'm surprised they weren't done for contempt of court / perverting the course. I think the fact they did this during an on going trial influenced the sentencing.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 7, 2018)

ddraig said:


> how does shouting through the letterboxes of innocent people and calling them scum and rapists help 'community cohesion'?
> also filming and uploading it, how would you feel if done to you for no reason other than your religion?
> e2a and putting leaflets through the doors of your neighbours with false accusations



Pretty unpleasant agreed. But would it be any less upsetting if it was for reasons other than religious ones?


----------



## likesfish (Mar 7, 2018)

tbf if some  leftie group manages somehow to be as offensively stupid as Britain Last has been for ages and finally crosses the line and gets hammered I doubt anyone will be that bothered..

the Bristol anarchists tried with their attack on a military personnel carrier  (a cadet minibus) but didnt keep the campaign going


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 7, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I mean disproportionate sentencing for political activity when the state wants to send a message.



Has this case upset you dear?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 7, 2018)

The headline in the Independent says the judge made remarks about the potential impact of their behaviour on court proceedings concerning rape but where's the charges for that?


----------



## TopCat (Mar 7, 2018)

They are an odd bunch...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 7, 2018)

They live in Penge?

Does Penge know?

What is Penge gonna do about it?


----------



## TopCat (Mar 7, 2018)

I heard rumours from two unrelated people that BF demos are characterised by amphetamine.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> The headline in the Independent says the judge made remarks about the potential impact of their behaviour on court proceedings concerning rape but where's the charges for that?



That is odd. I'd have thought it was a clear case of contempt of court.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 7, 2018)

it might have been but are rather special friends avoided contempt of court by harassing random Muslims that had nothing to do with the trial.


 the fuckwit defence much like you cant be done for bank robbery if you rob hairdressers by mistake


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 7, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> Pretty unpleasant agreed. But would it be any less upsetting if it was for reasons other than religious ones?



It's not 'pretty' anything. It's fucking awful. Regardless of the reasons. These fuckwits targeted innocent people and then put them at further risk of abuse/violence by uploading videos in which they claimed to be the heroes. Unpleasant? Don't mean to be rude mate but that is a understatement and doesn't suggest you've much sympathy for those they targeted at all. Too much like  'but other people are targeted for other reasons' kind of whataboutery. Granted you may not mean in that way.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 7, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> It's not 'pretty' anything. It's fucking awful. Regardless of the reasons. These fuckwits targeted innocent people and then put them at further risk of abuse/violence by uploading videos in which they claimed to be the heroes. Unpleasant? Don't mean to be rude mate but that is a understatement and doesn't suggest you've much sympathy for those they targeted at all. Too much like  'but other people are targeted for other reasons' kind of whataboutery. Granted you may not mean in that way.



Predictably your ducking the issue. 

How much more or less would they have got if the religious motivation was factored out was the question? (And would you also be applauding with the same vigor if the roles were reversed?)

The point I'm making is that politically inspired virtue signalling by the judiciary rarely ends well. Basically because any perception of imbalance is likely to be counter productive in the long run. 

Liberals have urged the playing of the race/Islamaphobic card across much of Europe for over a quarter of a century . 

And look how well that's turned out.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 7, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> Predictably your ducking the issue.



For someone throwing this kind of accusation around you are pretty backwards in coming fowards about exactly why you are upset.

Spell it out or fuck off with this mealy mouthed, wordy, nonsense.

Politically inspired virtue signalling? You seem to be doing a lot of that yourself with this attempt at opaque whataboutery.

They were rightly found guilty of committing crimes. What problem do you actually have with that?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 7, 2018)

So making religious motivation an aggravating factor is virtue signalling. What a load of bollocks.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 7, 2018)

Turning keystone cop, vigilante cunts and fucking up royally by targeting innocent people is okay because the reason they were targeted is they share the same religion as the guilty ones,  so yeah...suck it up you virtue signalling liberal fucks.


----------



## RD2003 (Mar 7, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> For someone throwing this kind of accusation around you are pretty backwards in coming fowards about exactly why you are upset.
> 
> Spell it out or fuck off with this mealy mouthed, wordy, nonsense.
> 
> ...


 Taking away the political element, similar offences likely wouldn't have received similar sentences.


TopCat said:


> I heard rumours from two unrelated people that BF demos are characterised by amphetamine.


How very 1978.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 7, 2018)

TopCat said:


> I heard rumours from two unrelated people that BF demos are characterised by amphetamine.


Yeh they can't afford coke


----------



## agricola (Mar 7, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> Predictably your ducking the issue.
> 
> How much more or less would they have got if the religious motivation was factored out was the question? (And would you also be applauding with the same vigor if the roles were reversed?)
> 
> ...



This wasn't "politically inspired virtue signalling" by the judiciary - the Courts have always taken an extremely dim view of people appearing to interfere with the Courts process, they went not guilty despite having filmed themselves committing the offences, and they did it in order to make a point.  Having a defence of "_but I was only the cameraman_" doesn't lend itself to everyone being found not guilty either.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 8, 2018)

Re th BF FB Page - sentiment seems to have moved to calls for civil war and a military coup.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 8, 2018)

well, that's not going to happen arrse banned the far right and mockery of said far right because it just wasn't funny anymore and was getting boring and a waste of bandwidth.  yes your always going to have a few facists and types in the armed forces but its no more popular than it's in the general population. They did use to regularly attempt to recruit and were more successful than the SWP  bt only just.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> They were rightly found guilty of committing crimes. What problem do you actually have with that?



So your position is 1. The state has found them guilty of committing crimes 2. The state has punished them as it saw fit 3. It is 'mealy mouthed whataboutery' or being 'upset' (eh?) to question the motives of the state or to raise concerns about a similar approach being employed by the state against anti-fascists or anyone engaged in activity that the state wants to make an example of?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

ruffneck23 said:


> and found guilty
> 
> Britain First leaders found guilty of anti-Muslim hate crime
> 
> although not sure if its for the same thing, pretty sweet tho, depending on the sentence



Surprised they didn't get contempt of court as well tbh.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> Predictably your ducking the issue.
> 
> How much more or less would they have got if the religious motivation was factored out was the question? (And would you also be applauding with the same vigor if the roles were reversed?)
> 
> ...



The verdict clearly states that in the judge's opinion without the religious/racial motivation Golding and Fransen wouldn't have been there at all. It's meaningless to talk about 'factoring out' the motivation for a crime when without that motivation, there would have been no crime. Maybe it doesn't matter to you why they did what they did but it does matter to those directly affected by it, and those who _solely_ because of their religion or their skin colour are at risk of being targetted by simillar actions.

Calling a hate crime a hate crime is not political correctness, nor does it consitute playing any 'cards' of any colour you care to name.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 8, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> So your position is 1. The state has found them guilty of committing crimes 2. The state has punished them as it saw fit 3. It is 'mealy mouthed whataboutery' or being 'upset' (eh?) to question the motives of the state or to raise concerns about a similar approach being employed by the state against anti-fascists or anyone engaged in activity that the state wants to make an example of?



I am struggling to understand your point, they were convicted of specific hate crimes, which is not uncommon, there was almost 15000 hate-crime prosecutions in 2016-17*, often resulting in jail, including one guy sent down for 2 years for anti-Jewish online rants**.

* Hate-crime prosecutions fall despite rise in reported attacks after Brexit vote

** Neo-Nazi jailed for harassing Labour MP Luciana Berger


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 8, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> So your position is 1. The state has found them guilty of committing crimes 2. The state has punished them as it saw fit 3. It is 'mealy mouthed whataboutery' or being 'upset' (eh?) to question the motives of the state or to raise concerns about a similar approach being employed by the state against anti-fascists or anyone engaged in activity that the state wants to make an example of?



How many White, Christian sex offenders are BF known to have targeted or attempted to since their inception?

The ethnicity and religious beliefs of those BF wrongly targeted and abused in this case is pivotal to it being a hate crime...what upsets you about this?

All i'm getting is an echo of but, but, but, but, but...


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> The ethnicity and religious beliefs of those BF wrongly targeted and abused in this case is pivotal to it being a hate crime...what upsets you about this?


wrongly targeted and abused? like there's right targeting and abuse by fascist groups?


----------



## 19sixtysix (Mar 8, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> That is odd. I'd have thought it was a clear case of contempt of court.





likesfish said:


> it might have been but are rather special friends avoided contempt of court by harassing random Muslims that had nothing to do with the trial.
> the fuckwit defence much like you cant be done for bank robbery if you rob hairdressers by mistake



I'd have thought conspiracy to pervert the course of justice might have been more appropriate.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> wrongly targeted and abused? like there's right targeting and abuse by fascist groups?



It’s good when they fight each other tbf.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 8, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It’s good when they fight each other tbf.




True


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 8, 2018)

8ball said:


> Oh, what a shame.  I liked those two.



Its certainly coloured my view of them.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> The ethnicity and religious beliefs of those BF wrongly targeted and abused in this case is pivotal to it being a hate crime...what upsets you about this?



So you wouldn’t have a problem if the sex offender had been white/Christian?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you wouldn’t have a problem if the sex offender had been white/Christian?


the people who were targeted were NOT sex offenders
did you miss that in your desperation?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> the people who were targeted were NOT sex offenders
> did you miss that in your desperation?



I was responding to Rutita’s post where she mentions white/Christian sex offenders. 
Did you miss that in your desperation?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I was responding to Rutita’s post where she mentions white/Christian sex offenders.
> Did you miss that in your desperation?


that's not mentioned in the post you quoted


----------



## Humirax (Mar 8, 2018)

*Lol

http://newsthump.com/2018/03/08/bri...ds-first-night-in-prison-converts-to-islam-2/

Muslim fundamentalists have radicalised former Britain First leader Paul Golding after he spent his first night in prison.*

Golding was sentenced to 18 weeks in prison for religiously-aggravated harassment, while fellow Britain First spokesperson Jayda Fransen was also sentenced for the same crime, but for nine months due to multiple counts.

Golding’s staunch anti-Islam stance softened dramatically after a lengthy conversation with his cellmate Manzoor, who explained why his worldview had ‘a number of troubling aspects’.

His conversion to Islam was revealed at breakfast this morning when he greeted the kitchen staff with “As-Salaam-Alaikum”.

As one prison guard explained the incident. They told us, “I’ve seen it many times, these radicals seek out the weak minded, those with a feeble intellect, and before you know it they’re reciting the Koran all day long, calling themselves Mustafa, and growing a beard.

“Paul’s only got a day’s worth of stubble, but the beard has started. It’ll be coming along nicely by the time he gets out in a few weeks time. You’re always much easier to convert if you’re a _fundamentalist_ before you get into prison.

Prison authorities have expressed concerns about the speed with which Golding was radicalised.

Governor Simon Williams told reporters, “Paul Golding was clearly radicalised before lights out last night. It was a surprise to some people, yes.

“The smart money was on him lasting at least a week before capitulating to the Islamic fundamentalists in here.

“I’m fifty quid down to Dave on C-Block, but I’ve gone double or quits on him choosing the name Muhamed Ali.”


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you wouldn’t have a problem if the sex offender had been white/Christian?


Desperate. What the fuck has happened to you? It was clearly a point about the very particular nature of BF and how they are fucking racist hypocrites.

They are not interested in protecting women from sex offenders. They are interested in abusing Muslims. The whole hero shtick is a cover as well you know.

That I have to explain myself and this to you is depressing. Now off you fuck.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> that's not mentioned in the post you quoted



Post #618 in the very first sentence.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Desperate. What the fuck has happened to you? It was clearly a point about the very particular nature of BF and how they are fucking racist hypocrites.
> 
> They are not interested in protecting women from sex offenders. They are interested in abusing Muslims. The whole hero shtick is a fucking rouse as well you know.



But this view and the law applies to non fascists also. So it’s quite important.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you wouldn’t have a problem if the sex offender had been white/Christian?


You’re going down a really weird route here


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Post #618 in the very first sentence.


why not quote the proper post then?
too desperate


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 8, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You’re going down a really weird route here


It's called looking for a pointless row. It's his MO recently.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You’re going down a really weird route here



It’s true: we’re going down a weird route when some anti-social or criminal scumbags have a protected characteristic based on ethnicity or religion.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> why not quote the proper post then?
> too desperate



I did quote that post just not all of it. But it’s there if you want to read it.


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 8, 2018)

If the Nation of Islam or whoever started banging on the doors of random white people calling them dirty white Christian pedophile scumbags, there's a reasonable chance they might get done for the same offence.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s true: we’re going down a weird route when some anti-social or criminal scumbags have a protected characteristic based on ethnicity or religion.


the people they targeted were INNOCENT
do you understand??


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> If the Nation of Islam or whoever started banging on the doors of random white people calling them dirty white Christian pedophile scumbags, there's a reasonable chance they might get done for the same offence.


and this!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 8, 2018)

likesfish said:


> well, that's not going to happen arrse banned the far right and mockery of said far right because it just wasn't funny anymore and was getting boring and a waste of bandwidth.  yes your always going to have a few facists and types in the armed forces but its no more popular than it's in the general population. They did use to regularly attempt to recruit and were more successful than the SWP  bt only just.


nearly as successful as the 'ra


----------



## existentialist (Mar 8, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It’s good when they fight each other tbf.


But they're not even very good at that!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> the people they targeted were INNOCENT
> do you understand??



The wider point is also being discussed.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The wider point is also being discussed.


do you agree with post #637 by Yoss?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> do you agree with post #637 by Yoss?



Are those protected characteristics and is there a legal precedent where where they’ve been aggravating factors in a case of harassment?

Even if it is, why should abusing some scumbag who is Christian be any worse than abusing an atheist one?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 8, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> If the Nation of Islam or whoever started banging on the doors of random white people calling them dirty white Christian pedophile scumbags, there's a reasonable chance they might get done for the same offence.



Yes, it is possible might tey have been charged with breach of the peace or some such, but as with some clown shouting abuse entirely through random letter boxes it is not likely they would have been jailed, much less as in this case for 9 months. There would be hundreds of thousands in jail if everyone was treated the same way.
And it is precisely because the sentencing overkill is self-evident that it becomes politically counter productive.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 8, 2018)

19sixtysix said:


> I'd have thought conspiracy to pervert the course of justice might have been more appropriate.



might have gone for it except the fuckwits went nowhere near anyone involved in the trial so conspiracy might have failed because they targeted people that had zero contact with the trial


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are those protected characteristics and is there a legal precedent where where they’ve been aggravating factors in a case of harassment?
> 
> Even if it is, why should abusing some scumbag who is Christian be any worse than abusing an atheist one?


stop twisting it for your own ends
if INNOCENT christians were being verbally attacked by muslims or other faiths because of their faith then it would be the same no
the people they abused were NOT scumbags, you might think so, but they were NOT, once again they were INNOCENT and targeted because of their faith


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you wouldn’t have a problem if the sex offender had been white/Christian?



Pisspoor even for you.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> stop twisting it for your own ends
> if INNOCENT christians were being verbally attacked by muslims or other faiths because of their faith then it would be the same no
> the people they abused were NOT scumbags, you might think so, but they were NOT, once again they were INNOCENT and targeted because of their faith



Is having some nutter screaming through your letterbox for being Christian more traumatic than having them harass you for some other reason?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Is having some nutter screaming through your letterbox for being Christian more traumatic than having them harass you for some other reason?


not saying it is but it's the fucking aggravating factor and why they did it isn't it


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:
			
		

> Is having some nutter screaming through your letterbox for being Christian more traumatic than having them harass you for some other reason?



Won't somebody please think of the white people?


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 8, 2018)

That reminds me what is the collective noun for strawmen?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> That reminds me what is the collective noun for strawmen?



A _Magnus_ of straw men.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Is having some nutter screaming through your letterbox for being Christian more traumatic than having them harass you for some other reason?



research shows that hate crime - i.e. being attacked for your race, religion, sexuality etc has a more damaging effect on the victim - because you are attacking something fundamental about their sense of self. it also acts as an attack on a wider community - in this case it sends a message of hate to all muslims. Thats why if a crime is classed as a "hate crime" it  results in a more punitive sentence.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> not saying it is but it's the fucking aggravating factor and why they did it isn't it



They could simply have had their collars felt for harassment. What has happened is they’ve had aggravating factors bolted on which plays right into their narrative of minorities getting special treatment which helps their organisations grow. All being cheered on by you.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Won't somebody please think of the white people?



You’re another far right recruitment agent.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You’re another far right recruitment agent.



That's not an accusation I take at all lightly and I invite you to withdraw it.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They could simply have had their collars felt for harassment. What has happened is they’ve had aggravating factors bolted on which plays right into their narrative of minorities getting special treatment which helps their organisations grow. All being cheered on by you.



Not really.  If they'd actually successfully targeted the defendants maybe. Instead of which they're just a laughing stock. Their conduct was definitely towards the upper end of harassment. 

If they'd been animal rights types they'd have been properly fucked but then the pharmaceutical industry genuinely gets "special treatment "


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They could simply have had their collars felt for harassment. What has happened is they’ve had aggravating factors bolted on which plays right into their narrative of minorities getting special treatment which helps their organisations grow. All being cheered on by you.


no you prick, you think muslims are fair game


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

ddraig said:


> no you prick, you think muslims are fair game



I think some people are fair game by virtue of their actions - their ethnicity or beliefs are irrelevant. You think their characteristics are relevant. What does that make you?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think some people are fair game by virtue of their actions - their ethnicity or beliefs are irrelevant. You think their characteristics are relevant. What does that make you?


it makes me not you which is good enough


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think some people are fair game by virtue of their actions - their ethnicity or beliefs are irrelevant. You think their characteristics are relevant. What does that make you?



It's not a question of offering certain people greater protection but of recognising and acting on the fact that certain people are at greater risk.

Do you object when criminals are given harsher sentences when they prey on vulnerable people? Because religious and ethnic minorities are more vulnerable to, or more likely to be victims of certain types of crime with certain specific motivations. This has always been the case and will remain so until we all finally learn to play nicely together. 

Maybe there are examples of anti-white or anti-christian hate crimes but what there isn't in those cases is any prospect of escalation to a level that's a genuine risk to the livelihoods of white christians as a population. The only people who see a genuine existential threat to white folk in the UK are deranged racists, everybody else can do the maths and notice little things like the government, police and courts being disproportionately white.


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 8, 2018)

I'm not even sure what people are arguing for here - do they want racially aggravated harassment to no longer be a crime, or for racially aggravating circumstances to be ignored when the person responsible leads a far-right group?

The stiffer sentences are partly because they apparently shared video of their misdeeds on social media channels with large numbers of followers, must have made their victims feel even more threatened.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 8, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> That's not an accusation I take at all lightly and I invite you to withdraw it.


Hohoho


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's not a question of offering certain people greater protection but of recognising and acting on the fact that certain people are at greater risk.
> 
> Do you object when criminals are given harsher sentences when they prey on vulnerable people? Because religious and ethnic minorities are more vulnerable to, or more likely to be victims of certain types of crime with certain specific motivations. This has always been the case and will remain so until we all finally learn to play nicely together.
> 
> Maybe there are examples of anti-white or anti-christian hate crimes but what there isn't in those cases is any prospect of escalation to a level that's a genuine risk to the livelihoods of white christians as a population. The only people who see a genuine existential threat to white folk in the UK are deranged racists, everybody else can do the maths and notice little things like the government, police and courts being disproportionately white.



I think it’s a tricky path to tread to state people are vulnerable across the board by virtue of their ethnicity/religion. The logical conclusion of this kind of identity politics is that they can’t be the predatory party in any way. Look how well that’s turned out over the last few years.


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 8, 2018)

White people aren't the only people who get sentenced for racially aggravated harassment and similar crimes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...onvictions-under-public-order-act-tables.xlsx


----------



## existentialist (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think it’s a tricky path to tread to state people are vulnerable across the board by virtue of their ethnicity/religion. The logical conclusion of this kind of identity politics is that they can’t be the predatory party in any way. Look how well that’s turned out over the last few years.


I'm not sure the aggravating factors are saying all that much about the victims. It's more about the propensity for some people to target particular groups, so it's not an inherent quality of the groups that is at issue, but the fact that organisations like BF have a long track record of deliberately targeting people in particular groups.

And this patently isn't about some bloke shouting random slurs which happen to be discriminatory...this is part of an organised campaign of harassment by Fransen and Golding of people solely on the basis of their faith/ethnicity. They have been doing it for a long time, it is frequently carefully planned, they state quite openly that they do it, and they even film it, in the knowledge that they have an audience who have an appetite for that kind of behaviour. *Those* are, essentially, the aggravating factors. And, in view of their history, I think the sentences Fransen and Golding got were surprisingly light.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Mar 8, 2018)

likesfish said:


> might have gone for it except the fuckwits went nowhere near anyone involved in the trial so conspiracy might have failed because they targeted people that had zero contact with the trial



Conspiracy is about planning together not doing. So their plan was to do something. The fact their stupidity got in the way is no bar. It carries heavy sentences.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think it’s a tricky path to tread to state people are vulnerable across the board by virtue of their ethnicity/religion. The logical conclusion of this kind of identity politics is that they can’t be the predatory party in any way. Look how well that’s turned out over the last few years.



I specifically said religious and ethnic minorities are more vunerable to _certain types of crime _so I can only assume you've pulled the 'across the board' bit straight out of your arse.

As for your logical conclusion it can't be that logical if nobody in the history of time has ever seriously suggested exempting certain groups of people from criminal responsibility.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 8, 2018)

19sixtysix said:


> Conspiracy is about planning together not doing. So their plan was to do something. The fact their stupidity got in the way is no bar. It carries heavy sentences.





But if the potatoes in ill fitting people suits make such a hash of their plans might be difficult to persuade a jury they were serious?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> As for your logical conclusion it can't be that logical if nobody in the history of time has ever seriously suggested exempting certain groups of people from criminal responsibility.



There’s been lots of looking the other way and sweeping of things under carpets. You can’t have missed it?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There’s been lots of looking the other way and sweeping of things under carpets. You can’t have missed it?



Well, this is all the data I need.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think it’s a tricky path to tread to state people are vulnerable across the board by virtue of their ethnicity/religion. The logical conclusion of this kind of identity politics is that they can’t be the predatory party in any way.


That's a wholly _illogical_ conclusion, tbh. Black people as a whole are more susceptible to racist attacks in the UK than white people. That doesn't mean that individual black people can't be guilty of racist attacks.

Would you agree that someone who attacks a black person _because_ they are black should be sentenced more robustly than someone who attacks someone for many other reasons?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 8, 2018)

what has happened here? fucking hell


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 8, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> That's not an accusation I take at all lightly and I invite you to withdraw it.



Just laugh at him...his own piss poor argument seeking bilge is more in line with BF than he cares to realise. Utterly depressing.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 8, 2018)

It's not as if they got done for blasphemy . There was a clear course of conduct that was designed to inflame community tensions and cause further violence. 

They got off lightly.


----------



## andysays (Mar 8, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> Consider what a similar charge of harassment would have involved (more than likely a fine) then add in the *politically designed 'aggravating factors'* and it is easy to see why the jail time allotted will look to many as wildly disproportionate. How does this help 'community cohesion' if that is the aim?



Yeah, those awful "politically designed aggravating factors".

It's getting so you can't even stand outside a student's room in a hall of residence chanting "we hate the blacks" without being arrested for politically designed so-called racially aggravated public order offences...


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 8, 2018)

andysays said:


> Yeah, those awful "politically designed aggravating factors".
> 
> It's getting so you can't even stand outside a student's room in a hall of residence chanting "we hate the blacks" without being arrested for politically designed so-called racially aggravated public order offences...



I saw that earlier.  Bloody odd story.

Lesson here is never underestimate just how dumb students (especially 1st year students) can be.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> I saw that earlier.  Bloody odd story.
> 
> Lesson here is never underestimate just how racist and dumb students can be.



FIFY


----------



## andysays (Mar 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> I saw that earlier.  Bloody odd story.
> 
> Lesson here is never underestimate just how dumb students (especially 1st year students) can be.



That's one lesson, but those whining about "politically designed aggravating factors" might want to try imagining themselves in the position of the young woman subjected to that sort of shit.

Perhaps that might be an equally worthwhile lesson.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> FIFY



But that's just the thing though isn't it?  

Are university campuses normally a hotbed of racism?   Sure there will always be individuals.


----------



## andysays (Mar 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> But that's just the thing though isn't it?
> 
> Are university campuses normally a hotbed of racism?   Sure there will always be individuals.



I'm not really able to answer that, but I'm not sure it's really relevant to the question of why a number of professed anti-fascists are attempting to play down the significance and seriousness of racially or religiously motivated harassment, which is where this thread seems to be right now.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> But that's just the thing though isn't it?
> 
> Are university campuses normally a hotbed of racism?   Sure there will always be individuals.



What a strange question...did you read the article? Perhaps you missed this...



> Ilyas Nagdee, 23, National Union of Students officer representing students of African, Arab, Asian and Caribbean descent, said these experiences are "common".
> 
> "We've seen examples of incidents like the racist writing on bananas at Warwick, the Confederate flag at Manchester and now shouting through the door in Nottingham.
> 
> ...



Firstly you dismiss the seriousness of this story even though you posted it by suggesting the racist twats are merely _dumb 1st years_, then you go on to imply that racism isn't common amongst students at university and again wave a dismissive hand with the 'there will be individuals' comment.

Weird.

It's as if racism is such a fucking, stupid, horrible thing that people are sick and tired of talking about it and want to pretend it doesn't exist, or something. 

If only.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 8, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Lesson here is never underestimate just how dumb students (especially 1st year students) can be.



Stupidity is not the cause of racism, merely a substrate for it.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 8, 2018)

You’d imagine a student would think chanting we hate the blacks outside a black students room would be something you wouldn’t be able to get away with so you wouldn’t do it even if you were a raving racist.

Bit like the Cambridge student who thought going up to a bunch of angry drunk squaddies to say up the ira was going to end well


----------



## chilango (Mar 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> What a strange question...did you read the article? Perhaps you missed this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not sure why the Manchester incident is lumped in with this. It appears to have nothing to do with students or Universities. 

There's been enough other incidents though....


----------



## Thimble Queen (Mar 8, 2018)

chilango said:


> I'm not sure why the Manchester incident is lumped in with this. It appears to have nothing to do with students or Universities.
> 
> There's been enough other incidents though....



Maybe ask Andysays, he brought it into the conversation.


----------



## chilango (Mar 8, 2018)

Thimble Queen said:


> Maybe ask Andysays, he brought it into the conversation.



Well it was the NUS person quoted in the news story, but it just seems an odd example given I doubt there's a shortage. 

Just a passing observation.


----------



## Rob Ray (Mar 8, 2018)

likesfish said:


> You’d imagine a student would think chanting we hate the blacks outside a black students room would be something you wouldn’t be able to get away with so you wouldn’t do it even if you were a raving racist.
> 
> Bit like the Cambridge student who thought going up to a bunch of angry drunk squaddies to say up the ira was going to end well



I'd imagine like many arrogant uni lads they just assumed that if reported they could just fuck it off as drunken foolery, don't ruin my life for a silly joke etc. It's not like people don't usually get away with similar stuff. Difference in that case was she was able to send it viral.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 8, 2018)

chilango said:


> I'm not sure why the Manchester incident is lumped in with this. It appears to have nothing to do with students or Universities.
> 
> There's been enough other incidents though....


I was quoting the article but yes now having looked at that particular incident it doesn't seem to be uni/student related. I cant speak for the SU bod though as to why he included it.

As you acknowledge there are are enough other incidents anyway...if someone were really interested in knowing how prevalent this stuff is I imagine they'd research it instead of asking me in such a dismissive way as was done above.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Mar 8, 2018)

chilango said:


> Well it was the NUS person quoted in the news story, but it just seems an odd example given I doubt there's a shortage.
> 
> Just a passing observation.



I'm a bit tired and got Manchester/Nottingham mixed up and misread you. Sorry I probably seemed a bit short.


----------



## chilango (Mar 8, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> I was quoting the article but yes now having looked at that particular incident it doesn't seem to be uni/student related. I cant speak for the SU bod though as to why he included it.
> 
> As you acknowledge there are are enough other incidents anyway...if someone were really interested in knowing how prevalent this stuff is I imagine they'd research it instead of asking me in such a dismissive way as was done above.





Thimble Queen said:


> I'm a bit tired and got Manchester/Nottingham mixed up and misread you. Sorry I probably seemed a bit short.



As I said, it was just a passing observation after reading the linked article. 

I used to walk past that pub every day as a kid on my way home from school so I guess it stick out a bit.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> That's a wholly _illogical_ conclusion, tbh. Black people as a whole are more susceptible to racist attacks in the UK than white people. That doesn't mean that individual black people can't be guilty of racist attacks.
> 
> Would you agree that someone who attacks a black person _because_ they are black should be sentenced more robustly than someone who attacks someone for many other reasons?



So if we both get assaulted on a night out, receive the same injuries etc with the only difference being that some racial epithets are thrown your direction amongst the abuse we both receive, do you:

A) think the perpetrators deserve harsher treatment for your attack than mine?

And,

B) by what degree should their punishment be harsher?


----------



## emanymton (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So if we both get assaulted on a night out, receive the same injuries etc with the only difference being that some racial epithets are thrown your direction amongst the abuse we both receive, do you:
> 
> A) think the perpetrators deserve harsher treatment for your attack than mine?
> 
> ...


I've mentioned this before, but years ago I was walking home from work around midnight, and there was a bunch Asian lads walking on the opposite side of the road. One of them crossed over and threatened to bottle me because I was white. I wss able diffuse the situation and he went back to the others. As it happens one of the others had crossed over at the same time and walked a little way behind us, and he came up to me apologized, said the other guy was drunk and he wouldn't have let anything happen.

The point of this is being the odd sort I am, as I carried on with my walk home, I considered the politics of this and what it would have meant if I had actually been attacked.

Any attack would clearly have had a racial motivation to it. But I realized that this would not mean I was a victim of racism. Whatever the impact an attack, being attacked for being white would have no more impact on me than being attacked for no reason, or because I wear glasses. Being a victim of racism is not about single isolated incidents, however unpleasant they may be. Racism is a constant presence, that impacts people's lives in a multitude of ways. I realised that while I (a white *English* person in Britain) could be a victim of a racially motivated attack, I cannot experience racism. There is a qualitative difference between the two.

But whether that difference should affect sentencing is another question and one I am going to duck. No least because the law would no doubt disagree with me, and would treat an attack on me the same as an attack on someone for being black.

Edited to add 'English'.


----------



## andysays (Mar 8, 2018)

Thimble Queen said:


> Maybe ask Andysays, he brought it into the conversation.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

emanymton said:


> I've mentioned this before, but years ago I was walking home from work around midnight, and there was a bunch Asian lads walking on the opposite side of the road. One of them crossed over and threatened to bottle me because I was white. I wss able diffuse the situation and he went back to the others. As it happens one of the others had crossed over at the same time and walked a little way behind us, and he came up to me apologized, said the other guy was drunk and he wouldn't have let anything happen.
> 
> The point of this is being the odd sort I am, as I carried on with my walk home, I considered the politics of this and what it would have meant if I had actually been attacked.
> 
> ...



When people state that white people can’t experience racism in the same way that black people do I’m always reminded of the those notes put in windows or newspapers of no blacks, no Irish, no dogs. 
Presumably it wasn’t as bad for the Irish.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Mar 8, 2018)

andysays said:


>



See my post above.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> When people state that white people can’t experience racism in the same way that black people do I’m always reminded of the those notes put in windows or newspapers of no blacks, no Irish, no dogs.
> Presumably it wasn’t as bad for the Irish.


Oh come on, that's not a fair reading and you know it. But if it helps I'll make a slight edit.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 8, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Oh come on, that's not a fair reading and you know it. But if it helps I'll make a slight edit.



It was meant as a wider point and something that identity politics always overlooks. It wasn’t just brown people who were under the colonial heel or experience racial abuse in the U.K. But these arguments always boil it down to exactly that.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So if we both get assaulted on a night out, receive the same injuries etc with the only difference being that some racial epithets are thrown your direction amongst the abuse we both receive, do you:
> 
> A) think the perpetrators deserve harsher treatment for your attack than mine?
> 
> ...



The judiciary reserve enormous rights to themselves over discretion in sentencing in any case.


----------



## lazythursday (Mar 8, 2018)

When did it become acceptable for any efforts to combat racism to be sneered at as identity politics? It's fucking depressing. I totally get the critique of where identity politics has led us but you know, throwing babies out with the bathwater and all that.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> When did it become acceptable for any efforts to combat racism to be sneered at as identity politics? It's fucking depressing. I totally get the critique of where identity politics has led us but you know, throwing babies out with the bathwater and all that.


it's not acceptable it's just shitheads like magnus and their shitty agendas 
see the alt right mob and people who keep saying antifa are as bad as fascists etc, loads of dullards and liberals have lapped it up


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So if we both get assaulted on a night out, receive the same injuries etc with the only difference being that some racial epithets are thrown your direction amongst the abuse we both receive, do you:
> 
> A) think the perpetrators deserve harsher treatment for your attack than mine?
> 
> ...



Possibly, but I think we need to be careful with what we call "racially motivated/aggravated". If the person assaulting me just happened to call me a black bastard whilst he was doing it, it wouldn't necessarily be a racially _motivated_ attack. If however he has told his mates before he did it "I'm going to slap a paki tonight" then it most certainly would be. In the latter case then yes. Certainly it should be punished more harshly than a similarly weighted (but non-racially motivated) attack on you. If the attack on you was racially based then the same would apply.

We have largely decided that racism/religious hatred etc, are unacceptable so when there is an element of these present in other crimes we load the punishment because we consider it to be _even more_ serious than had those crimes happened in isolation. I really cant see why you would think otherwise.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Possibly, but I think we need to be a little bit careful with what we call "racially motivated/aggravated". If the person assaulting me
> just happened to call me a black bastard whilst he was doing it, it wouldn't necessarily be a racially _motivated_ attack. If however he has told his mates before he did it "I'm going to slap a paki tonight" then it most certainly would be. In the latter case then yes. Certainly it should be punished more harshly than a similarly weighted (but non-racially motivated) attack on you. If the attack on you was racially based then the same would apply.



I’m not sure how you’d know that someone had privately expressed that they were planning on committing a racial attack beyond their mates dobbing them in, which is why I used the example of racial epithets being used during an attack.



> We have largely decided that racism/religious hatred etc, are unacceptable so when there is an element of these included in other crimes we load the punishment because we consider it to be _even more_ serious than had those crimes happened in isolation. I really cant see why you would think otherwise.



I agree they’re unacceptable but what was being discussed was that if someone decides to give someone a clip because of their _behaviour_ and they end up in the dock because of it then they could be treated more harshly for twatting a brown nonce than a white one.
And then the conversation moved onto protected characteristics and the hypothetical situation I posed to you (in response to one posed to me) which you found difficult to answer. And I knew you would find it difficult to answer.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not sure how you’d know that someone had privately expressed that they were planning on committing a racial attack beyond their mates dobbing them in, which is why I used the example of racial epithets being used during an attack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeh, it's the regular friday hangover


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, it's the regular friday hangover



Are you referring to me? I don’t drink on school nights anymore.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not sure how you’d know that someone had privately expressed that they were planning on committing a racial attack beyond their mates dobbing them in, which is why I used the example of racial epithets being used during an attack.


Don't be daft, I just gave that as an example. There are plenty of situations where an attack could clearly and sensibly be deemed racially or religiously motivated. This Bratain First shit was one. You're just trying to focus on those where the lines are blurred (and trying to blur the lines yourself).


> I agree they’re unacceptable but what was being discussed was that if someone decides to give someone a clip because of their _behaviour_ and they end up in the dock because of it then they could be treated more harshly for twatting a brown nonce than a white one.


No, what was being discussed was Fransen and the other dickhead picking on people _because they are Muslims._ You then extrapolated it for some reason.


> And I knew you would find it difficult to answer.


I don't think it's at all difficult to answer. It's pretty clear mate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you referring to me? I don’t drink on school nights anymore.


no


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> No, what was being discussed was Fransen and the other dickhead picking on people _because they are Muslims._ You then extrapolated it for some reason.



I extrapolated nothing. Mistaken identities aside, it was connected to a rape case. 
Anyway I don’t want to appear that I’m defending that pair of cunts but the implications stretch wider than that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> no



Oh.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I extrapolated nothing. Mistaken identities aside, it was connected to a rape case.


Mistaken identities aside, I haven’t seen Fransen and Golding banging on the doors of any non-Muslim nonces. What does that tell you?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Mistaken identities aside, I haven’t seen Fransen and Golding banging on the doors of any non-Muslim nonces. What does that tell you?


they don't know where they live


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Mistaken identities aside, I haven’t seen Fransen and Golding banging on the doors of any non-Muslim nonces. What does that tell you?



Yes I know why they’re doing it. I’d still argue that bumping their sentences up in this way has done them more favours than harm.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Mistaken identities aside, I haven’t seen Fransen and Golding banging on the doors of any non-Muslim nonces. What does that tell you?



If Britain First is anything like the EDL they wouldn't have to look hard to find them.  A quick glance at their membership list would do the trick.


----------



## andysays (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I extrapolated nothing. Mistaken identities aside, it was connected to a rape case.
> Anyway I don’t want to appear that I’m defending that pair of cunts but the implications stretch wider than that.


TBH, if it's a bit late for you to worry about appearing to defend them, because your on-going dishonest misrepresentation of what racially aggravated harassment actually means creates EXACTLY that impression.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

andysays said:


> TBH, if it's a bit late for you to worry about appearing to defend them, because your on-going dishonest misrepresentation of what racially aggravated harassment actually means creates EXACTLY that impression.



Oh look, an anarchist supporting state sanctions.


----------



## andysays (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh look, an anarchist supporting state sanctions.


I'm not supporting state sanctions, I'm criticising your seemingly deliberate misrepresentations of what this particular law actually means, and people's attempts to downplay the seriousness of racial harassment.

Your stated concern that this law might be used against anti-fascists would be comical if it weren't such a dishonest attempt to muddy the waters, and your whole exchange with Spymaster is similarly dishonest.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

andysays said:


> I'm not supporting state sanctions, I'm criticising your seemingly deliberate misrepresentations of what this particular law actually means, and people's attempts to downplay the seriousness of racial harassment.
> 
> Your stated concern that this law might be used against anti-fascists would be comical if it weren't such a dishonest attempt to muddy the waters, and your whole exchange with Spymaster is similarly dishonest.



You’re not supporting state sanctions, you’re just making sure the law is applied correctly to your political opponents.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh look, an anarchist supporting state sanctions.


i don't know about you but i was pleased when charlie sargent out of c18  was put away for murder. i don't see taking some pleasure from the jailing of fascists as bad. it doesn't mean you support the whole state structure, it means taking pleasure in bad things happening to bad people.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes I know why they’re doing it. I’d still argue that bumping their sentences up in this way has done them more favours than harm.


Why? How on earth is it doing them favours? You think it acts as a recruiting sergeant for BF or something daft like that? The only people getting up in arms about this are dickheads like them.

You are basically advocating that racism, as an element of other crimes, should go unpunished. Bonkers.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Why? How on earth is it doing them favours? You think it acts as a recruiting sergeant for BF or something daft like that? The only people getting up in arms about this are dickheads like them.
> 
> You are basically advocating that racism, as an element of other crimes, should go unpunished. Bonkers.



I’m not saying it should go unpunished. In fact I’m not going to repeat myself. I made my points up thread.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't know about you but i was pleased when charlie sargent out of c18  was put away for murder. i don't see taking some pleasure from the jailing of fascists as bad. it doesn't mean you support the whole state structure, it means taking pleasure in bad things happening to bad people.



I suppose the liberals will sleep sounder under the illusion that the state will protect them from fascism.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not saying it should go unpunished.


Of course you are. Very explicitly. You're saying that their sentences shouldn't have been bumped because of the religious or racial element. How is that _not_ leaving the racism element unpunished?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I suppose the liberals will sleep sounder under the illusion that the state will protect them from fascism.


it will protect them from fascism to the same extent it protects them from rain


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Of course you are. Very explicitly. You're saying that their sentences shouldn't have been bumped because of the religious or racial element. How is that _not_ leaving the racism element unpunished?



I’ve made my points. I’m not playing merry-go-rounds with you.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 9, 2018)

whataboutery death spiral


----------



## donkyboy (Mar 9, 2018)

I read that Britain Furst have stupidly printed the prison address for their beloved leader. Should be interesting when she gets tons of hate mail.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’ve made my points. I’m not playing merry-go-rounds with you.


You haven't made any points, dude. Not coherent ones anyway. You've said that banging them up for longer because of the hate element is doing them a favour but you haven't said why, and (I think) you've said that racism should be punished but argued the exact opposite. Can you see why I'm confused?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> You haven't made any points, dude. Not coherent ones anyway. You've said that banging them up for longer because of the hate element is doing them a favour but you haven't said why, and (I think) you've said that racism should be punished but argued the exact opposite. Can you see why I'm confused?



I covered it in post #655. You didn’t pull me then so I can only assume you joined the thread late and haven’t read previous points.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

donkyboy said:


> I read that Britain Furst have stupidly printed the prison address for their beloved leader. Should be interesting when she gets tons of hate mail.


share the address


----------



## lazythursday (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I covered it in post #655. You didn’t pull me then so I can only assume you joined the thread late and haven’t read previous points.


Post #655 isn't really clear at all. Are you arguing against the very notion of racially aggravated crime being a legal concept with harsher sentences, or simply saying that it shouldn't have been applied in this particular case because the political context might help boost Britain First?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> Post #655 isn't really clear at all. Are you arguing against the very notion of racially aggravated crime being a legal concept with harsher sentences, or simply saying that it shouldn't have been applied in this particular case because the political context might help boost Britain First?



I’m making a political/antifascist argument that it’s counter productive to make them martyrs / play into their narrative.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I covered it in post #655. You didn’t pull me then so I can only assume you joined the thread late and haven’t read previous points.





Magnus McGinty said:


> They could simply have had their collars felt for harassment. What has happened is they’ve had aggravating factors bolted on which plays right into their narrative of minorities getting special treatment which helps their organisations grow. All being cheered on by you.



The "aggravating factor" being racism.

That doesn't cover anything though does it. The only narrative of minorities getting special treatment is by dickheads for dickheads. It's not going to convince anyone remotely reasonable.

Seriously. Right here you are arguing that the racism in this case shouldn't be punished. _Absolutely slap-bang_, that's what you're saying.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m making a political/antifascist argument that it’s counter productive to make them martyrs / play into their narrative.



You are arguing that the racist element of their crimes be ignored so we don't upset them, other racists or would be racists. Not very socialist/antifacist of you at all.

FFS, they got weeks not years!! Martyrs? Have a word with yourself.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m making a political/antifascist argument that it’s counter productive to make them martyrs / play into their narrative.


i don't think you can call prison sentences which - combined - are only a couple of weeks more than a year is making martyrs of them, and this is in any case a different argument from that you were formerly proposing.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> The "aggravating factor" being racism.
> 
> That doesn't cover anything though does it. The only narrative of minorities getting special treatment is by dickheads for dickheads. It's not going to convince anyone remotely reasonable.
> 
> Seriously. Right here you are arguing that the racism in this case shouldn't be punished. Absolutely slap-bang, that's what you're saying.



Looking over at places like Austria, Italy, France, Hungary, I feel a growing unease at how the far right are developing. This is all under the European liberal consensus.
So pardon me if me if challenging some shibboleths causes offence.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Looking over at places like Austria, Italy, France, Hungary, I feel a growing unease at how the far right are developing. This is all under the European liberal consensus.
> So pardon me if me if challenging some shibboleths causes offence.


not sure how you got here from where you were


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 9, 2018)

This is quite a useful   'live' report on the findings of guilt/not guilty and the sentencing with defence, prosecution and judges remarks.
Updates as Britain First leaders Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen jailed


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> not sure how you got here from where you were



I imagine so.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Looking over at places like Austria, Italy, France, Hungary, I feel a growing unease at how the far right are developing. This is all under the European liberal consensus.
> So pardon me if me if challenging some shibboleths causes offence.



So because you are _scared_ you are arguing nonsense about ignoring racism as an element of hate crime because racists will be upset and recruit more racists!?!?!? Right you are.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I imagine so.


yeh. i don't see the relevance of your 736 to Spymaster's 733, and would be grateful if you could explain it.


----------



## lazythursday (Mar 9, 2018)

So in order to prevent the rise of the far right we should roll back protections against hate crimes? Shall we throw out all the race relations and equalities acts at the same time? How much do we need to abandon in order to win?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> So because you are _scared_ you are arguing nonsense about ignoring racism as an element of hate crime because racists will be upset and recruit more racists!?!?!? Right you are.



Why are they growing?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. i don't see the relevance of your 736 to Spymaster's 733, and would be grateful if you could explain it.



I’m losing interest in the debate tbh. You guys carry on.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m losing the debate tbh. You guys carry on.



FIFY


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Why are they growing?


i don't think bf are growing


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> FIFY


nail on head
poor poor mendacious magnus and his shitty agenda


----------



## andysays (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m making a political/antifascist argument that it’s counter productive to make them martyrs / play into their narrative.


Sorry, I was wrong earlier. This nonsense IS comical.

You fucking clown.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> FIFY



I’m not ‘losing’  - I’ve made my points and I stand by them. I can leave it at that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not ‘losing’  - I’ve made my points and I stand by them. I can leave it at that.


yeh, but you're having trouble defending them.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

andysays said:


> Sorry, I was wrong earlier. This nonsense IS comical.
> 
> You fucking clown.



Ouch


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, but you're having trouble defending them.



I become less arsed when it’s just some pile on with twats with an axe to grind. Enjoy your weekend.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 9, 2018)

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't 9 months a kinda special sentence i.e. it allows a judge to ensure max time served with minimum chance of early release ? I know this was the case years ago when a 9'er was rather less welcomed than an 12'er


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, but you're having trouble defending them.



I know I’m on the right side of the debate if my opponents are Rutita, Ddraig and Andy Says.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think bf are growing



The far right in Europe is growing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The far right in Europe is growing.


you have chosen a very strange thing to fight over and then introduced arguments which don't support the notion that you've given this much thought


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I know I’m on the right side of the debate if my opponents are Rutita, Ddraig and Andy Says.


you've been shown up you pathetic idiot, by several posters, go run away now, take your emoticons with you


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> you have chosen a very strange thing to fight over and then introduced arguments which don't support the notion that you've given this much thought



As far as I can tell, the modern left do more to aid the far right than stunt it. This thread hasn’t convinced me that I’m wrong on that point. 
The far right in Europe are growing. Perhaps now is the time to question what’s being done wrong? 
*handing BF a propaganda victory is placed within the context above ^^


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

ddraig said:


> you've been shown up you pathetic idiot, by several posters, go run away now, take your emoticons with you



I’d there actually any point to you?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> As far as I can tell, the modern left do more to aid the far right than stunt it. This thread hasn’t convinced me that I’m wrong on that point.
> The far right in Europe are growing. Perhaps now is the time to question what’s being done wrong?
> *handing BF a propaganda victory is placed within the context above ^^


when you say 'the modern left' you're less than specific. do you mean the likes of the afn? of uaf? of the labour party? all of the modern left?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> when you say 'the modern left' you're less than specific. do you mean the likes of the afn? of uaf? of the labour party? all of the modern left?



The ones who are latching into this idpol crap - seemingly the majority along with plenty on here.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’d there actually any point to you?


desperate stuff, flailing now, poor poor magnus


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

ddraig said:


> desperate stuff, flailing now, poor poor magnus



Fantasy stuff.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Fantasy stuff.


you on your way to the court to support your mates against the terrible injustice they've suffered?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

ddraig said:


> you on your way to the court to support your mates against the terrible injustice they've suffered?



They’re your mates. You liberals give them the best leg up.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They’re your mates. You liberals give them the best leg up.


you are the one with a shitty agenda over many threads and here bleating about their unfair treatment


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not ‘losing’  - I’ve made my points and I stand by them. I can leave it at that.





Magnus McGinty said:


> I become less arsed when it’s just some pile on with twats with an axe to grind. Enjoy your weekend.





Magnus McGinty said:


> I know I’m on the right side of the debate if my opponents are Rutita, Ddraig and Andy Says.



Is that it? Is that all you've got?  

You've proved yourself to be a complete tit on this thread as well as others and the only good thing about this is more and more posters are now wise to this fucked up agenda you have developed over recent years.

 Your arguments are all over the place and every time you get called on it you scream 'pile on/liberals/IDpolitickers'. You are doing fuck all other than arguing fash arguments and then getting all sulky, taking your ball home and blaming every one else when it's pointed out to you.

Utterly depressing.


----------



## lazythursday (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The ones who are latching into this idpol crap - seemingly the majority along with plenty on here.


'idpol' is a particular set of political assumptions and behaviours. It is not the same thing as hate crime laws. HTH.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Is that it? Is that all you've got?
> 
> You've proved yourself to be a complete tit on this thread as well as others and the only good thing about this is more and more posters are now wise to this fucked up agenda you have developed over recent years.
> 
> ...



There’s a select few who think this and they are idpol/liberals. Funny coincidence ey?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> 'idpol' is a particular set of political assumptions and behaviours. It is not the same thing as hate crime laws. HTH.



They’re unconnected to identity?


----------



## october_lost (Mar 9, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Being a victim of racism is not about single isolated incidents, however unpleasant they may be. Racism is a constant presence, that impacts people's lives in a multitude of ways. I realised that while I (a white *English* person in Britain) could be a victim of a racially motivated attack, I cannot experience racism. There is a qualitative difference between the two


When I was young, a group of asian youths set on me and a mate for having the audacity of hanging round on a street corner waiting for the cinema to open. We're both white. 

At the same time, I've had asian mates had hassle for going out drinking in the whitebred town where I grew up.

These aren't 'isolated incidents'. People form communities and some of these communities have active anti-social elements in them that want to attack and expel each other. Regardless of wider systemic racism.

A white person living alongside a large ethnic minority community, rightly might not feel they are a victim of an atomised incident, but are regularly encountering tensions that exist between both communities.
While a race attack, for example - white on black, might have qualitatively different dimensions than the other way round, if a white person is targeted for _being white_ and _being in a particular location or neighbourhood_, it wouldn't go amiss if that person spoke in terms of encountering racism.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They’re unconnected to identity?



_Identity_ isn't the same thing as _identity politics_.


----------



## lazythursday (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They’re unconnected to identity?


You can be against a form of politics that sees the world as merely a set of competing identities of varying privileges, and still believe in the need to fight racism and homophobia etc ffs.

You are using the words identity politics to deny the legitimacy of any struggle involving a minority group and you do it in thread after thread. It's either sheer ignorance or something more sinister imo.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

NoXion said:


> _Identity_ isn't the same thing as _identity politics_.



Yes but these things don’t exist in a vacuum and it’s long been accepted that neoliberalism has co-opted identity politics as it’s able to dole out equality on that basis (whilst economic inequality widens).


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

lazythursday said:


> You can be against a form of politics that sees the world as merely a set of competing identities of varying privileges, and still believe in the need to fight racism and homophobia etc ffs.
> 
> You are using the words identity politics to deny the legitimacy of any struggle involving a minority group and you do it in thread after thread. It's either sheer ignorance or something more sinister imo.



I don’t agree with using the state as a vehicle for anti-racism - and there ought not to be anything controversial about that position.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t agree with using the state as a vehicle for anti-racism - and there ought not to be anything controversial about that position.


so in the case of regina v golding and fransen you think that regina is some sort of anti-racist? 

who is using the state as a vehicle for anti-racism? answers on a postcard pls.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> who is using the state as a vehicle for anti-racism? answers on a postcard pls.



You’re saying there haven’t been / aren’t anti-racist orgs who campaign along those lines? Isn’t that basically the MO of Searchlight et al?


----------



## NoXion (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes but these things don’t exist in a vacuum and it’s long been accepted that neoliberalism has co-opted identity politics as it’s able to dole out equality on that basis (whilst economic inequality widens).



You don't have to hold to ID politics to think that racism should be an aggravating factor in crime.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

NoXion said:


> You don't have to hold to ID politics to think that racism should be an aggravating factor in crime.



Which is probably why I never said that.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There’s a select few who think this and they are idpol/liberals. Funny coincidence ey?



Yes, that's right, everyone that disagrees with you must be an idpoliticker and wrong even when you clearly are. It's the fucking law or something.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You’re saying there haven’t been / aren’t anti-racist orgs who campaign along those lines? Isn’t that basically the MO of Searchlight et al?


who *here* is making the argument that anti-racists should use the state to smite fascists?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> who *here* is making the argument that anti-racists should use the state to smite fascists?



I was clarifying my own position.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I was clarifying my own position.


by inspired use of the auld strawman


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> by inspired use of the auld strawman



Well there is a bit of a conundrum between arguing for tough sentencing whilst arguing that the state shouldn’t be used as a vehicle for anti-racism. But nothing surprises me here nowadays.


----------



## The Pale King (Mar 9, 2018)

Seems a bit harsh this - Jonathon Franzen's fiction's not that bad...


----------



## existentialist (Mar 9, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> whataboutery death spiral


More of a whataboutery spiral of tedious ennui...


----------



## donkyboy (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> share the address


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

do you know what, i think i will


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2018)

existentialist said:


> More of a whataboutery spiral of tedious ennui...


it's a downward spiral and there's no way out


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 9, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think bf are growing



True, but I do get a bit worried that there might be some non mouth-breathing hard-right Tory out there somewhere who might do a "Norsefire".


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 9, 2018)

Arrests over racist chants at university



> NTU has suspended the "suspected perpetrators" pending inquiries.
> 
> Two 18-year-old men have been arrested on suspicion of *racially aggravated public order offences*.



The nonsense on this thread argues that these arseholes should just be reprimanded for singing out of tune in an intimidating way lest we have to endure the wrath of other racist fuckwits because how very dare the state/society recognise racism as a influencing factor of abuse/harrassment.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Mar 9, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Arrests over racist chants at university
> The nonsense on this thread argues that these arseholes should just be reprimanded for singing out of tune in an intimidating way lest we have to endure the wrath of other racist fuckwits because how very dare the state/society recognise racism as a influencing factor of abuse/harrassment.



Oh Ruti come on they weren't even racist. Just stupid first years playing up!


----------



## keybored (Mar 9, 2018)




----------



## existentialist (Mar 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I know I’m on the right side of the debate if my opponents are Rutita, Ddraig and Andy Says.


I can just imagine that you would be the kind of person who, if the boot were on the other foot, would be saying "play the ball, not the man"


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 9, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I can just imagine that you would be the kind of person who, if the boot were on the other foot, would be saying "play the ball, not the man"



If you can find where Ive ever said that I’ll give you a tenner.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 9, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> True, but I do get a bit worried that there might be some non mouth-breathing hard-right Tory out there somewhere who might do a "Norsefire".



I think each iteration of these movements whether they succeed or fail pave the way for the next.


----------



## MrSpikey (Mar 10, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't 9 months a kinda special sentence i.e. it allows a judge to ensure max time served with minimum chance of early release ? I know this was the case years ago when a 9'er was rather less welcomed than an 12'er



I don't think so. This may have been the case in the early days of releases on tag, but the guidelines now are that release on a tag is available for sentences of between 3 months and 4 years - so in theory, a 36 week sentence means you'll be eligible for such after 9 weeks, rather than after 3 months for a 12 month sentence. 

Without a tag release, you'll be released on probation at the 50% point of your sentence (for relatively short determinate sentences like these). Sentences of 12 months+ are served on license with active supervisation by the Parole Service, while those under 12 months aren't actively supervised. So, a 36 week sentence in this situation not only means an earlier release, but less subsequent grief dealing with probation.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 10, 2018)

So they got off lightly, in effect. Why am I not surprised?


----------



## MrSpikey (Mar 10, 2018)

teqniq said:


> So they got off lightly, in effect. Why am I not surprised?


It was dealt with in a Magistrates' Court, meaning a max sentence of 6 months (per charge - Fransen's longer sentence is due to the 3 convictions not being treated as a single offence). With the aggravating factor, it could have been sent to Crown Court for trial, where the maximum would be 2 years per charge. So, it does seem that the CPS were happy to aim for sentences at the lower end of the potential scale, for whatever reason.


----------



## kenny g (Mar 11, 2018)

MrSpikey said:


> It was dealt with in a Magistrates' Court, meaning a max sentence of 6 months (per charge - Fransen's longer sentence is due to the 3 convictions not being treated as a single offence). With the aggravating factor, it could have been sent to Crown Court for trial, where the maximum would be 2 years per charge. So, it does seem that the CPS were happy to aim for sentences at the lower end of the potential scale, for whatever reason.


 
Avoids the trouble/risk of a jury trial which would be unlikely to end in a  greater sentence on conviction in any case.


----------



## kenny g (Mar 11, 2018)

The defendants wouldn't have opted for a Crown Court trial because of the  greater sentencing powers but the CPS aren't going to risk a not guilty jury verdict on the hope of a mildly longer sentence.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2018)

Interesting: Taking Action Against Britain First | Facebook Newsroom


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

kenny g said:


> The defendants wouldn't have opted for a Crown Court trial because of the  greater sentencing powers but the CPS aren't going to risk a not guilty jury verdict on the hope of a mildly longer sentence.


not to mention the higher legal costs


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

MrSpikey said:


> It was dealt with in a Magistrates' Court, meaning a max sentence of 6 months (per charge - Fransen's longer sentence is due to the 3 convictions not being treated as a single offence). With the aggravating factor, it could have been sent to Crown Court for trial, where the maximum would be 2 years per charge. So, it does seem that the CPS were happy to aim for sentences at the lower end of the potential scale, for whatever reason.


iirc magistrates can refer to crown court for sentencing if they feel they can't impose a suitable sentence: i await confirmation/correction


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 14, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Interesting: Taking Action Against Britain First | Facebook Newsroom


 
How long until analogues of BF popup?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> How long until analogues of BF popup?



Probably not long at all - so we won't have long to wait to see if this is Facebook turning a corner or if it's simply a bit of PR.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 15, 2018)

Britain First leader has 'nose broken' in prison attack

The leader of the the far-right group Britain First has been attacked in prison less than a week after being jailed for abusing Muslims .

Paul Golding , 36, was beaten up in HMP Elmley on the Isle of Sheppey in Kent on Wednesday by two inmates who are believed to have left him with a suspected broken nose.

Police are now understood to be investigating the alleged attack.


----------



## steveo87 (Mar 15, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Britain First leader has 'nose broken' in prison attack
> 
> The leader of the the far-right group Britain First has been attacked in prison less than a week after being jailed for abusing Muslims .
> 
> ...


----------



## MrSpikey (Mar 16, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> iirc magistrates can refer to crown court for sentencing if they feel they can't impose a suitable sentence: i await confirmation/correction



Yes, you're right - "either way" offences can be dealt with at either magistrates' or Crown court, depending on the specifics, but will start with an appearance at a magistrates' court. If the defendant pleads guilty at this appearance, the magistrate can decide to commit to Crown Court for sentencing if they believe the offence warrants a stiffer sentence than they can impose.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 16, 2018)

*Britain First leader has 'nose broken' in prison attack less than a week after being jailed for racist abuse*

Paul Golding, 36, was beaten up in HMP Elmley on the Isle of Sheppey in Kent on Wednesday by two inmates


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

Badgers said:


> *Britain First leader has 'nose broken' in prison attack less than a week after being jailed for racist abuse*
> 
> Paul Golding, 36, was beaten up in HMP Elmley on the Isle of Sheppey in Kent on Wednesday by two inmates



Oh dear. 

Still never mind eh?


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2018)

tonysingh said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> Still never mind eh?



Its sad but what can we do?


----------



## Badgers (Mar 16, 2018)

tonysingh said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> Still never mind eh?


My thoughts exactly


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Its sad but what can we do?



Send in a few quid to his attacker as a well done.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

Badgers said:


> My thoughts exactly



I've never been prouder to be an Elmley alumni!


----------



## elbows (Mar 16, 2018)

tonysingh said:


> Still never mind eh?



Some scum got rather hysterical about these events.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Its sad but what can we do?


*shrug*

Yes, that's what we can do. We can shrug. *shrug*


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

elbows said:


> Some scum got rather hysterical about these events.



Do we (does anyone?) know that he was attacked by Muslims? Or is this just another bit of traditional BF pull-it-out-of-your-arse-and-see-if-it-sticks-to-the-wall bollocks?


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

elbows said:


> Some scum got rather hysterical about these events.




He will have been put in a single flowery. that don't stop Herr Golding mixing with other cons. what do they expect, whites only wings? fuck nuts.


Oh i so hope he got a slap in front of the other cons and is a target for every cons until the end of his sentence!


----------



## Badgers (Mar 16, 2018)

I thought he could 'look after himself' so to speak?


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

tonysingh said:


> He will have been put in a single flowery. that don't stop Herr Golding mixing with other cons. what dot hey expect, whites only wings? fuck nuts.
> 
> 
> Oh i so hope he got a slap in front of the other cons and is a target for every cons until the end of his sentence!


It's the only language they understand


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

Badgers said:


> I thought he could 'look after himself' so to speak?


If he's ever said that, it's almost proof positive that he can't.

Mind you, I wouldn't put it past him to have punched himself in the face, for victim status. Except that I can't imagine he'd even be able to do that without fucking it up and missing.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

I spent 6 months in Elmley. There are a LOT of the brothers in there but it's also a nasty jail. Assaults are common unless you're jail sensible. which clearly Golding aint. 

This assault, the attacker will face fuck all charges. The kangas didn't place Golding in harms way deliberately, i'd wager it was the opposite but hey ho, accidents happen


----------



## Thimble Queen (Mar 16, 2018)

Can't pretend to feel sorry for the cunt


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

You see them acid attacks? You get the same effect with boiling water n sugar. That's a common prison attack. Not that i would wish that on any prisoner......


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Mar 16, 2018)

tonysingh said:


> He will have been put in a single flowery. that don't stop Herr Golding mixing with other cons. what do they expect, whites only wings? fuck nuts!



Sounds like the twats want wings segregated by colour.  Fucking loons.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Mar 16, 2018)

White muslims do exist but still.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Sounds like the twats want wings segregated by colour.  Fucking loons.



They'd fucking struggle. Black men are massively over represented in jail. I'd say easily 70% of cons when i was in Elmley were either black or asian. There's all sorts of reasons for that, but i am convinced that a black man is much more likely to go to jail for the same crime and for longer than a white con. 

Segregating cons would make Golding cum with joy. He'd be able to convince himself he's like his Loyalist buddies in Maghaberry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2018)

tonysingh said:


> They'd fucking struggle. Black men are massively over represented in jail. I'd say easily 70% of cons when i was in Elmley were either black or asian. There's all sorts of reasons for that, but i am convinced that a black man is much more likely to go to jail for the same crime and for longer than a white con.
> 
> Segregating cons would make Golding cum with joy. He'd be able to convince himself he's like his Loyalist buddies in Maghaberry.


yeh but there the colours separated are orange and green


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2018)

elbows said:


> Some scum got rather hysterical about these events.



seems to me the prison service simply went out of their way to allow golding to enter into dialogue with muslims, which is something golding has of course sought as a major part of britain first's activities.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 16, 2018)

They would love their very own H blocks - expect that there will be political capital across the internetz about this assault on a patriot. Whose only crime was loyalty etc


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 16, 2018)

He's now in a "care and separation unit" which is apparently the latest term for solitary - I hope he gets many more chances to interact with his fellow prisoners and doesn't just spend the next 17 weeks cooped up writing "MY STRUGGEL."


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 16, 2018)

.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but there the colours separated are orange and green


Ahaha, I'd be fucked in an Irish prison. I'm colourblind: I can barely tell orange and green apart


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> He's now in a "care and separation unit" which is apparently the latest term for solitary - I hope he gets many more chances to interact with his fellow prisoners and doesn't just spend the next 17 weeks cooped up writing "MY STRUGGEL."




The LolCat "Mein Kampf"


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 16, 2018)

Beyond abolishing Islam, offering grants to people of foreign descent to leave the country permanently, banning the BBC, and so forth, the Britain First manifesto calls for prisons to be "places of hard labour rather than cosy holiday camps," wonder if Golding will be leading by example here.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> Beyond abolishing Islam, offering grants to people of foreign descent to leave the country permanently, banning the BBC, and so forth, the Britain First manifesto calls for prisons to be "places of hard labour rather than cosy holiday camps," wonder if Golding will be leading by example here.


Ah, he may want to make exceptions for political prisoners. Of the right type of politics, naturally.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 16, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> They would love their very own H blocks - expect that there will be political capital across the internetz about this assault on a patriot. Whose only crime was loyalty etc


they'd like their own a.h. blocks.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> Beyond abolishing Islam, offering grants to people of foreign descent to leave the country permanently, banning the BBC, and so forth, the Britain First manifesto calls for prisons to be "places of hard labour rather than cosy holiday camps," wonder if Golding will be leading by example here.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 16, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> He's now in a "care and separation unit" which is apparently the latest term for solitary - I hope he gets many more chances to interact with his fellow prisoners and doesn't just spend the next 17 weeks cooped up writing "MY STRUGGEL."



The governor will have made the order to place him in the unit in accordance with "good order and discipline" rules - i.e. that staff would not be able to maintain good order and discipline (chuckle) with Golding on a normal landing.

The hilarious thing is that a significant minority of Prison Service staff are, shall we say, of a hard right political stance (when I worked for the Home Office there was a big problem with BNP membership among members of the POA).


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2018)

I am frequently impressed by the depth of knowledge displayed on Urban about the inner workings of the prison system


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 16, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> The governor will have made the order to place him in the unit in accordance with "good order and discipline" rules - i.e. that staff would not be able to maintain good order and discipline (chuckle) with Golding on a normal landing.
> 
> The hilarious thing is that a significant minority of Prison Service staff are, shall we say, of a hard right political stance (when I worked for the Home Office there was a big problem with BNP membership among members of the POA).


I remember in the 70s and 80s there were a few NF activists who were prison officers , Brian Baldwin ( who was also around the LoStG, and the BM )  was the POA chairman at  what was then Strangeways for example. Funnily enough the Socialist Party in recent years have had a presence in their leadership.


----------



## souljacker (Mar 16, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> The hilarious thing is that a significant minority of Prison Service staff are, shall we say, of a hard right political stance (when I worked for the Home Office there was a big problem with BNP membership among members of the POA).



I indirectly know two screws from Elmley. I went to a Tottenham match with them once and they spent the whole day being openly racist. It was disgusting.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

souljacker said:


> I indirectly know two screws from Elmley. I went to a Tottenham match with them once and they spent the whole day being openly racist. It was disgusting.



I so want to guess who they are!


----------



## souljacker (Mar 16, 2018)

tonysingh said:


> I so want to guess who they are!



I can only remember one of their names and only his first name. If you really want to know, I could do a little bit of digging...


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 16, 2018)

souljacker said:


> I can only remember one of their names and only his first name. If you really want to know, I could do a little bit of digging...



Please do. 


I have a feeling may know them!


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 16, 2018)

I know one prison officer (works for Group4) and I worked with two ex prison officers, both women and one Asian .Never heard them say a racist comment  tbh.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Mar 16, 2018)

souljacker said:


> I indirectly know two screws from Elmley. I went to a Tottenham match with them once and they spent the whole day being openly racist. It was disgusting.



Did you or anyone else you were with challenge them?


----------



## Pwerus (Mar 17, 2018)

nicedream said:


> There seem to be a lot of supporters popping up, especially on facebook - i'm hoping it's simply  ignorance, and that people don't realise that they are a bunch of racist morons...


"Racist" is an increasingly vague and subjective term that some people like to use against the likes of UKIP and the Tories. Britain First is like /pol/ but as a political party. I don't have this on great grounds but I'm pretty sure they advocated deporting or even killing people for being born outside the country or being Muslim. Many of them come straight from the BNP - the things they say definitely fall under hate speech, and they should never say them unless they're prepared to get arrested for it.


----------



## A380 (Mar 18, 2018)

I’m shocked by some of the comments on here. Surely we should argue that the taking of someone’s liberty is but one element of the State’s monopoly of violence and so should be oppsed. And whilst imprisonment does still exist,  the primary aim and objective of the State must be to protect the personal safety of all those still so imprisoned. Even fascists.



Spoiler



ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


----------



## rekil (Mar 18, 2018)

Badgers said:


> I thought he could 'look after himself' so to speak?


CCTV has emerged. 



Spoiler


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 12, 2018)

This is a bit mad:
'Racist' leaflet drop leads to heated exchanges among Belfast city councillors - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Does anyone know the back story to Jolene Bunting getting elected as an independent councillor?

She seems to be proper fash with a twitter feed encouraging people to follow Fransen and Golding on Gab, etc?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 12, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> This is a bit mad:
> 'Racist' leaflet drop leads to heated exchanges among Belfast city councillors - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
> 
> Does anyone know the back story to Jolene Bunting getting elected as an independent councillor?
> ...


she was elected in 2014 as a traditional unionist voice cllr but left them in 2017

see also New TUV councillor in trouble over anti-Catholic remarks


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> she was elected in 2014 as a traditional unionist voice cllr but left them in 2017
> 
> see also New TUV councillor in trouble over anti-Catholic remarks



Ah OK, thanks. TUV seem incredibly unpleasant but presumably her links with BF were not known when she was elected?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 12, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Ah OK, thanks. TUV seem incredibly unpleasant but presumably her links with BF were not known when she was elected?


i think those came after


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 12, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Ah OK, thanks. TUV seem incredibly unpleasant but presumably her links with BF were not known when she was elected?


this is the earliest (national) newspaper article i can find on their links


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 12, 2018)

Well hopefully she won't be re-elected.


----------



## A380 (Aug 12, 2018)

Anybody on here follow what these twats are up to?


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2018)

A380 said:


> Anybody on here follow what these twats are up to?
> 
> View attachment 143857



I don't know, but a careful read of the attached text could suggest she has forwarded on someone's dick pictures to her mates.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 12, 2018)

Thing is, they ave been banned from any of the social media i'm aware of so there's no way to find out if that's true. It could just be a wind up meme.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 12, 2018)

Keeping it classy then eh?


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Thing is, they ave been banned from any of the social media i'm aware of so there's no way to find out if that's true. It could just be a wind up meme.



he is back on Facebook now, though the above post doesnt seem to be on it


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 12, 2018)

Original post:



Not sure if the account is valid, though.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 12, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Thing is, they ave been banned from any of the social media i'm aware of so there's no way to find out if that's true. It could just be a wind up meme.



think they removed the British first page

but they still have personal accounts taking a nosey at facebook

also appears whilst she was in jail her party members rinsed her credit card


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 13, 2018)

Lord Camomile said:


> Original post:
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if the account is valid, though.




I'd be surprised if that page is real. Every post on there is trolled to fuck.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 15, 2018)

Is this real?

If so when is it from?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 15, 2018)

Star speaks out after being duped by Britain First


----------



## Lucy Fur (Aug 15, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Is this real?
> 
> If so when is it from?
> 
> View attachment 144080


Not true apparently, his explanation;


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 15, 2018)

Thanks both.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 15, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Is this real?
> 
> If so when is it from?
> 
> View attachment 144080



BBC's Evan Davis Forced To Clarify He's Not A Britain First Supporter


----------



## emanymton (Aug 15, 2018)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Star speaks out after being duped by Britain First





> The BBC’s former political editor Nick Robinson was caught up in a selfie scandal after posing with Fransen at the Rochester and stood by-election count.
> 
> He quickly apologised, explaining "I had no idea who this was.
> 
> ...


Despite her having a massive fuck off badge on saying "candidate" and him being a political journalist presumably there to cover the election. Seriously how much do we pay these idiots again?


----------



## M Testa (Aug 16, 2018)

golding blamed jayda for everything and got a shorter sentence. he was let out and was unemployed, living in a bail hostel. she just got out and there be bad blood betwixt puddin' heid golding and jaydawg. i think they still have the belfast charges to face. jayda had nicked off with some geezer and there were rude pictures about. i saw one of her scantily clad and there were peen-pix floating about. someone claimed goldings' dong was 2". their 3rd in command, andrew edge was arrested on suspicion of sexual assault but no trial as yet from what i know. i'd post a link to a long running militant anti-fascist blog but i've been told not to.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 21, 2020)

Britain First leader Paul Golding charged by anti-terror police
					

Far-right figure was stopped at Heathrow on way back from meeting at Russian parliament and refused to give Pin of phone and devices, says Met




					www.theguardian.com
				




It probably is an abuse of legislation like he says. Also funny.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Feb 21, 2020)

The martyr of penge


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 21, 2020)

Hanging out with the Russians is great optics for a party called Britain First.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Feb 21, 2020)

I think we can all agree Britain First are fascists who none of us like. However, broadening the net of “terrorism” to include the demand to access their mobile phones is not a precedent that should be supported. Or rather, if you do, then don’t complain when the same legislation is used against Extinction Rebellion and similar.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Hanging out with the Russians is great optics for a party called Britain First.



Probably went there hoping for a handout from the Russian right.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Feb 21, 2020)

ViolentPanda said:


> Probably went there hoping for a handout from the Russian right.


Of course they did!!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 21, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Britain First leader Paul Golding charged by anti-terror police
> 
> 
> Far-right figure was stopped at Heathrow on way back from meeting at Russian parliament and refused to give Pin of phone and devices, says Met
> ...


Is he seriously only 38  looks at least 50, I'm 3 years older and I reckon he could pass as my dad. Far right politics is clearly like oil of ulay in reverse.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 21, 2020)

Larry O'Hara said:


> I think we can all agree Britain First are fascists who none of us like. However, broadening the net of “terrorism” to include the demand to access their mobile phones is not a precedent that should be supported. Or rather, if you do, then don’t complain when the same legislation is used against Extinction Rebellion and similar.


Surely we're at least allowed to laugh at the twat?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 21, 2020)

SpineyNorman said:


> Is he seriously only 38  looks at least 50, I'm 3 years older and I reckon he could pass as my dad. Far right politics is clearly like oil of ulay in reverse.



Whaat.. he's MY age? That is one OLD looking motherfucker. Damn.


----------



## elbows (Feb 21, 2020)

Larry O'Hara said:


> I think we can all agree Britain First are fascists who none of us like. However, broadening the net of “terrorism” to include the demand to access their mobile phones is not a precedent that should be supported. Or rather, if you do, then don’t complain when the same legislation is used against Extinction Rebellion and similar.



Its not new, eg this from 2017:









						NGO director convicted of terror offence for refusing to give police phone password
					

Cage director Muhammad Rabbani vows to appeal decision under 'absurd' terror powers




					www.independent.co.uk
				






> The director of an advocacy group has been convicted of a terror offence after refusing to give police passwords to access his phone and laptop at Heathrow Airport.





> The director of Cage was stopped under the Terrorism Act on 20 November last year after returning home from a wedding in Doha, Qatar.





> Officers demanded access to his phone and laptop under wide-ranging powers granted by Schedule 7 of the law.
> 
> It allows police and immigration officials to stop, search, question and detain anyone at British ports and airports to determine whether they were involved in the “commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism” – with or without reasonable suspicion.





> In the year to June 2017, 17,501 people were stopped under the power but only 1,522 of those were detained, according to Home Office statistics.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2020)

SpineyNorman said:


> Is he seriously only 38  looks at least 50, I'm 3 years older and I reckon he could pass as my dad. Far right politics is clearly like oil of ulay in reverse.



Careful!  Laurie Penny might misread that, and accuse you of being the son of a racist too!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Whaat.. he's MY age? That is one OLD looking motherfucker. Damn.



I'm fifty-fucking five and he looks older than me. Obviously getting pissed on your membership's pounds ages you!


----------



## bellaozzydog (Feb 21, 2020)

Larry O'Hara said:


> I think we can all agree Britain First are fascists who none of us like. However, broadening the net of “terrorism” to include the demand to access their mobile phones is not a precedent that should be supported. Or rather, if you do, then don’t complain when the same legislation is used against Extinction Rebellion and similar.


This x 100


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 21, 2020)

Have they not put the Extinction Rebellion and smiular of the same terror lists already?

fuck sake we a few years away from deep cover in left protests who fathered fucking multiple children


they using the same legislation already


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Feb 21, 2020)

SpineyNorman said:


> Surely we're at least allowed to laugh at the twat?


Of course you can: and his soul-mate Matthew Collins too, although the kebab man is currently on ‘gardening leave’, pity he has no garden 😂😂😉


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Feb 21, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> Have they not put the Extinction Rebellion and smiular of the same terror lists already?
> 
> fuck sake we a few years away from deep cover in left protests who fathered fucking multiple children
> 
> ...


Exactly


----------



## Shechemite (Feb 22, 2020)

[





Ax^ said:


> Have they not put the Extinction Rebellion and smiular of the same terror lists already?



dunno


----------



## hot air baboon (Feb 22, 2020)

there's no such thing as "anti-terror" legislation - there's just "legislation" & once its on the books those books will be thrown at you whenever they want #Walter Wolfgang


----------



## quiet guy (Feb 22, 2020)

It's all called Counter-Terrorism by Pretty Vacant


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 20, 2020)

Convicted.









						Britain First leader Paul Golding convicted under terrorism law
					

Far-right figure refused police access to his phone at Heathrow on return from Moscow




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 20, 2020)

Don't say you weren't warned!



			https://purehost.bath.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/187958374/Rizwaan_Sabir_2014_Understanding_Counter_Terrorism_Policy_and_Practice_in_the_UK_since_9_11..pdf
		










						The battle against Schedule 7 starts now
					

Everyone knows that "you have the right to remain silent" when dealing with a police officer, and everyone is wrong. This is what  Rizwaan Sabir has come to realise from both his personal experience and academic research. The police have, over the past few years, been given an extraordinary...




					ceasefiremagazine.co.uk
				






			Statewatch News Online: UK: New law would allow indefinite retention of data seized at ports


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 20, 2020)

Anarchists, Muslims, anti-frackers, justice for Palestine campaigners, whistleblower associates, human rights activists... They have all long been targeted.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 20, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Convicted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



conditional discharge, I wouldn't've bothered


----------



## two sheds (May 20, 2020)

So he didn't eventually have to hand over the passwords?


----------



## cyril_smear (May 20, 2020)

two sheds said:


> So he didn't eventually have to hand over the passwords?



no, just 771 quid


----------



## BristolEcho (May 20, 2020)

Yeah personally when reading this took no joy. The police should not be able to demand access to your phone and electronics without warrants.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 20, 2020)

hardly worth the bother. I see Yaxley lennon was in the gallery. Obviously this will be monetised and used for shouty agitprop means by the fascists. Golding probabaly sees himself as the new Christ for his public suffering and the crime of _having an opinion_. 

I am sure there was little of use on the phone anyway unless golding is an absolute fucking weapon.

er...


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 20, 2020)

.


----------



## Bond (May 21, 2020)

These clowns fooled so many people on social media such as Facebook. It became almost wearisome at one point 4-5 years ago on Facebook having to constantly point out what people were actually sharing in helping their poisonous cause.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 21, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> hardly worth the bother. I see Yaxley lennon was in the gallery. Obviously this will be monetised and used for shouty agitprop means by the fascists. *Golding probabaly sees himself as the new Christ* for his public suffering and the crime of _having an opinion_.



Would that make Jayda Fransen the new Mary Magdalene?



> I am sure there was little of use on the phone anyway unless golding is an absolute fucking weapon.
> 
> er...



Quite. The word "unless" is superfluous.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 11, 2020)

Not, I imagine a huge surprise to a fair few people:









						Far-right flock to "Russia's Facebook" after TikTok ban - Scram News
					

Links are growing between the British far-right and Russia.




					scramnews.com


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 11, 2020)

Silly sausages Far-right supporters flocking to "Russian Facebook" open up personal data to Putin government - Scram News


----------



## Badgers (Jul 11, 2020)

Good to see convicted terrorist Paul Golding being welcomed to Crawley


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 11, 2020)

He should have gone to east grinstead instead.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 13, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> He should have gone to east grinstead instead.


What do you have against East Grinstead?!


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 13, 2020)

Nice little village iirc. But full of oddities


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 13, 2020)

Tom Cruise will feel right at home in East Grinstead, Britain’s strangest town | Sam Jordison
					

The actor is moving to the UK home of Scientology and plans to help it ‘overshadow Buckingham Palace’. The locals won’t bat an eyelid




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## tony.c (Jul 13, 2020)

Haven't the good people of East Grinstead suffered enough already then without having BF inflicted on them too?!


----------



## dessiato (Jul 13, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Good to see convicted terrorist Paul Golding being welcomed to Crawley



I've spent time in Crawley and always thought it was full of dickheads. I think I've changed my mind. Well done Crawley.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2020)

Here's Golding getting a final farewell


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Here's Golding getting a final farewell



I think she came out of that rather well


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 13, 2020)

one for the range rover wankers car thread I think


----------



## likesfish (Jul 13, 2020)

tony.c said:


> Haven't the good people of East Grinstead suffered enough already then without having BF inflicted on them too?!


Tbf most of them are cultists of one sort or another maybe xenu would get Britain first?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Tom Cruise will feel right at home in East Grinstead, Britain’s strangest town | Sam Jordison
> 
> 
> The actor is moving to the UK home of Scientology and plans to help it ‘overshadow Buckingham Palace’. The locals won’t bat an eyelid
> ...





> Tom Cruise will feel right at home in *East Grinstead, Britain’s strangest town*



Clearly the writer has never been to Glastonbury. 

* Town, not festival.


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 13, 2020)

Akshully there’s a fair bit of crossover between the far-right and the weird culty stuff. Falun Gong would be an obvious example (get rid of the CCP so the Chinese can lead a race war against the blacks).


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 13, 2020)

People.


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 13, 2020)

There’s Allsorts out there


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 13, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Clearly the writer has never been to Glastonbury.
> 
> * Town, not festival.



Hampshire factually has the biggest rate of wankers per capita


----------



## kalidarkone (Jul 13, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Hampshire factually has the biggest rate of wankers per capita


Do you live there then ?


----------



## tony.c (Jul 14, 2020)

likesfish said:


> Tbf most of them are cultists of one sort or another maybe xenu would get Britain first?


I know there are hundreds of Scientologists in East Grinstead. I used to sort their newsletters when I worked at Royal Mail. But the population of East Grinstead is around 25,000 so I would assume that most are not cultists.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 14, 2020)




----------



## likesfish (Jul 14, 2020)

tony.c said:


> I know there are hundreds of Scientologists in East Grinstead. I used to sort their newsletters when I worked at Royal Mail. But the population of East Grinstead is around 25,000 so I would assume that most are not cultists.


Theres also moonies and some other group asxwell.


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 14, 2020)

Nice little library though


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 14, 2020)

likesfish said:


> Theres also moonies and some other group asxwell.



Plymouth Brethren or something


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 14, 2020)

And the Steiner lot (shudders)


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2020)

Careful now, they have their own navy now


----------



## existentialist (Aug 9, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Careful now, they have their own navy now
> 
> View attachment 225664
> 
> View attachment 225665


The captain will get pissed on Special Brew, ram something, and sink. With any luck, the passing refugee boats will be too overloaded to effect a rescue, and the bloated corpse of Captain Racist Dickhead will end up beached like some vast whale.


----------



## Oneeyedjarvis (Aug 9, 2020)

Groups like Britian First and other European white extremists can be rightfully compared to the likes of ISIS and Al Qaeda.
Actually there does seem to be some blurring of the lines in that respect, many are beginning to find that they have a shared interest in causing mayhem and division.




__





						CORDIS | European Commission
					






					cordis.europa.eu
				





> The sweeping popularity of right-wing forces that rally against Islam and Muslim migration points to an underlying social conflict. The roots of this conflict are often believed to lie in the inherent incompatibility of Western and Islamic civilisations. However, there are a number of cases of neo-Nazis joining Islamic terrorist organisations and far-right party leaders converting to Islam. This shows that the relationship between the far-right and Islam is much more complex than is commonly thought.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 9, 2020)

Oneeyedjarvis said:


> Groups like Britian First and other European white extremists can be rightfully compared to the likes of ISIS and Al Qaeda.



Don't be fucking daft.


----------



## Oneeyedjarvis (Aug 9, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Don't be fucking daft.


I didn't make this up. And white supremacists are as mad as a bag of badgers so absolutely anything can be expected.


----------



## Southlondon (Aug 9, 2020)

Oneeyedjarvis said:


> I didn't make this up. And white supremacists are as mad as a bag of badgers so absolutely anything can be expected.


One of The ideological leaders of combat18, a long time fascist activist David Myatt converted to Islam. The belief in subjugating entire populations, persecuting Minorities  to the point of death And genocide, the Complete intolerance of any human characteristic That is at odds with their bigoted view on how the world should be, based on a pack of lies and falsehoods Propagated by messianic dictators and and priests.  A tendency to appeal to damaged and oppressed people who feel they are not a part of the societies they live in by raising their fears of those they see as inferior.  I’m see a very great lot in common between the far right and fundamentalist Islam. Same goes for fundamentalist Hindus, Christians, Jews etc.


----------



## mauvais (Aug 9, 2020)

They tried to invade the BBC at MediaCity the other day and got trapped in the revolving door. Then, man down but bravely soldiering on, they got stuck in the _other _revolving door.



I don't know what fake news they were planning to expose in that building anyway, it's where the software engineers would be if it wasn't the weekend and it wasn't in the middle of Corona shutdown.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2020)

The other _day_?


----------



## mauvais (Aug 9, 2020)

A week ago on Saturday, why?


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 9, 2020)

Southlondon said:


> One of The ideological leaders of combat18, a long time fascist activist David Myatt converted to Islam. The belief in subjugating entire populations, persecuting Minorities  to the point of death And genocide, the Complete intolerance of any human characteristic That is at odds with their bigoted view on how the world should be, based on a pack of lies and falsehoods Propagated by messianic dictators and and priests.  A tendency to appeal to damaged and oppressed people who feel they are not a part of the societies they live in by raising their fears of those they see as inferior.  I’m see a very great lot in common between the far right and fundamentalist Islam. Same goes for fundamentalist Hindus, Christians, Jews etc.



And yet white supremacists/‘racial nationalists’ seem far happier to laud Assad, the IRI and even the PRC than they do ISIS. 

Britain first aren’t racial nationalists anyway, they are far closer to the religious far right of Eastern Europe


----------



## Oneeyedjarvis (Aug 9, 2020)

Religion and racial supremacism is one hell of a toxic mix.
Many of Britain First's followers effective worship of the Third Reich turns them from being a nuisance to a real dangerous lot.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 9, 2020)

Nah, they’re well Dads Army. Actual laughing stock, I’d almost swear they’re secretly lefties doing it all to discredit the far right. Hard to otherwise explain the incompetence and clowning.


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 9, 2020)

Oneeyedjarvis said:


> Many of Britain First's followers effective worship of the Third Reich



this is nonsense


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 9, 2020)

Worshipping the third reich by getting all het up by graffiti on a bust of Churchill


----------



## Southlondon (Aug 9, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Worshipping the third reich by getting all het up by graffiti on a bust of Churchill


Easy to  dismiss them as Dads army types, but their fuhrer is a former BNP activist and is a committed fascist. They attempt to win support from sections of the working class by masquerading as patriots just as the NF did year after year by maintaining a presence at the annual wreath laying ceremonies on Poppy Day. Whenever fascists organise they should be physically opposed, and whilst I think it’s Good fun to show the bumbling fools struggling to walk through a door, We must remember the Abject  misery their ‘Christian family-values  Far right comrades’  across Europe Are inflicting on minorities. It’s good to laugh at them but the fact that they seem to be able to garner such a huge amount of publicity in relation to their actual size should surely be cause for worry. Same goes for that other ex-BNP activist tommy Robinson - he’s in the news for something or other every week it seems. They keep looking for a major break  by attempting to hijack causes such as lee rigsbys murder, northern grooming gangs etc, and it only needs one little fascist outfit to actually produce an effective leader Capable of really capitalising on one of these Big  news issues And they might actually make a breakthrough And start building. I believe all these far right groupings should be treated as dangerous and physically opposed at every opportunity with the utmost vigour while they are still led by idiots even by fascist standards, and laughing at them is good, but closing down their ability to organise on the streets must always be an anti fascist priority


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 9, 2020)

But they don’t worship the third reich do they? Hence the Churchill ‘defence’.


----------



## Oneeyedjarvis (Aug 9, 2020)

THey are just opportunists, they want to cause trouble, the more havoc they cause the more, they think, they can benefit from it.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2020)

Oneeyedjarvis said:


> white supremacists are as mad as a bag of badgers


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 9, 2020)

Badgers said:


>



you’re madder then them or they are madder than you?


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 9, 2020)

Madness and white supremacism is an interesting topic tbf.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 28, 2020)

Far-right activists filmed hassling asylum seekers in hotels
					

One video shows members of Britain First entering hotel and banging on bedroom doors




					www.theguardian.com
				





they are such seedy fuckers aren't they ?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 28, 2020)

arm the migrants


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 28, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Far-right activists filmed hassling asylum seekers in hotels
> 
> 
> One video shows members of Britain First entering hotel and banging on bedroom doors
> ...



Cunts. Wonder how they'd react if someone went round hassling them where they live?

Like a few vans turning up outside their homes with loudspeakers at 5 in the morning.


----------



## MrSpikey (Aug 29, 2020)

tony.c said:


> Haven't the good people of East Grinstead suffered enough already then without having BF inflicted on them too?!


It will get even worse when the CoS and BF join forces - surely an inveitability, given their shared xenuphobic worldview.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 29, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Far-right activists filmed hassling asylum seekers in hotels
> 
> 
> One video shows members of Britain First entering hotel and banging on bedroom doors
> ...



Rude as well as racist and offensive on many different levels.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 29, 2020)

Obvious where the knuckle-draggers got the idea from; remember back in late July when Farage was going round filming his attempts to get in/“stay” at the hotels block booked by Serco to house migrants?


----------



## Badgers (Apr 28, 2021)

Britain First duped into protesting at hotels with no asylum seekers
					

Far-right group sent on wild goose chase as pro-migrant activists supply fake list including Dorchester on Park Lane




					www.theguardian.com
				






> The far-right group Britain First has been duped into protesting outside hotels which do not contain asylum seekers after being supplied with a fake list including the Dorchester on Park Lane, London, and a pub hotel owned by an associate of Dominic Cummings.


----------



## Shechemite (Apr 28, 2021)

Brilliant


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 9, 2021)

One step nearer an Enabling Act  











						Far-right bigot Jayda Fransen humiliated after winning just 46 votes in Glasgow
					

The former deputy leader of the fascist Britain First movement stood for election in Scotland's biggest city but was roundly rejected by voters.




					www.dailyrecord.co.uk


----------



## AmateurAgitator (May 9, 2021)

mauvais said:


> They tried to invade the BBC at MediaCity the other day and got trapped in the revolving door. Then, man down but bravely soldiering on, they got stuck in the _other _revolving door.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what fake news they were planning to expose in that building anyway, it's where the software engineers would be if it wasn't the weekend and it wasn't in the middle of Corona shutdown.



That music. They're so ridiculous!


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2021)

Far-right group Britain First registers as a political party
					

The far-right group was deregistered in 2017 when it failed to renew its registration in time.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




*The far-right group Britain First has registered as a political party after its application was approved by the Electoral Commission.*

Party leader Paul Golding said he was "ecstatic" and would start "building the electoral arm of our party".
The party was deregistered in 2017 after it failed to renew its registration on time.

An Electoral Commission spokesperson said the party's application had "met the legal criteria".
The watchdog assesses potential new parties to ensure they comply with legal obligations and that their proposed names, descriptions and emblems do not risk misleading or confusing voters.

Parties also need to show that their constitutions or membership policies do not breach equalities law.
The Electoral Commission does not consider a group's political views when deciding whether or not to register a party.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2021)

would love to see the mental gymnastics Britian first have used to show their consititions and membership policies do not break equalitie laws

who is the Black friend?


----------



## teqniq (Sep 28, 2021)

If anyone needed another reason not to patronise Wetherspoons.......


----------



## TopCat (Sep 28, 2021)

Did Tim Martin know who he was?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 28, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Did Tim Martin know who he was?



That was my thought too.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Did Tim Martin know who he was?


His customer base


----------



## TopCat (Sep 28, 2021)

Badgers said:


> His customer base


It’s broader than most.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2021)

TopCat said:


> It’s broader than most.


It is drunker than most


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 28, 2021)

Photo is at least two years old as it appeared in Hope Not Hate's article on the far right and the Brexit Party . Always remember when Ederson, the Man City keeper, was photoed  with Steven Yaxley Lennon.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 28, 2021)

Badgers said:


> It is drunker than most


There are few pubs near me. The nearest spoons is Tooting I think. It is a miserable collection of single table occupants.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Far-right group Britain First registers as a political party
> 
> 
> The far-right group was deregistered in 2017 when it failed to renew its registration in time.
> ...


the electoral arm?


----------



## TopCat (Sep 28, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> the electoral arm?


they will never keep proper records and will get done again.


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2021)

Anyone sharing ancient photos of Tim Martin being photobombed by Paul Golding as evidence that he's got far-right tendencies isn't a very serious person tbh (but we knew this from the #FBPE in their twitter handle anyway)


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 28, 2021)

I can't help wondering why the BBC make this such a big news story?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 28, 2021)

Invites to Question Time already on the way out I presume.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 28, 2021)

TopCat said:


> they will never keep proper records and will get done again.


It'll be the lost deposits and the occasional confrontation with anti fash that will see them off. They are a  tiny, publicity seeking irrelevance.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 28, 2021)

killer b said:


> Anyone sharing ancient photos of Tim Martin being photobombed by Paul Golding as evidence that he's got far-right tendencies isn't a very serious person tbh (but we knew this from the #FBPE in their twitter handle anyway)


Chums in photos can be weird. You wonder what do they or don't they have in common. Like Thatcher and Savile, or Rumsfeld and Sadam or Andrew and Epstein.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 28, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Chums in photos can be weird. You wonder what do they or don't they have in common. Like Thatcher and Savile, or Rumsfeld and Sadam or Andrew and Epstein.


He's got form for photobombing though hasn't he? Didn't Nick Robinson get in trouble once for the same thing? As much as Tim Martin is a fucking massive prick, I'm sure he wouldn't knowingly get photographed with a far right twat like Golding.


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Sep 28, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Chums in photos can be weird. You wonder what do they or don't they have in common. Like Thatcher and Savile, or Rumsfeld and Sadam or Andrew and Epstein.


My favourite is still Savile, Frank Bruno and the Yorkshire Ripper


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2021)

josef1878 2.0 said:


> My favourite is still Savile, Frank Bruno and the Yorkshire Ripper


With the Mason's shake. Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.


----------



## josef1878 2.0 (Sep 28, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> With the Mason's shake. Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.


Frank was very badly advised, at least he's still with us and the two cunts are dead. Bizarre photo opportunity if ever there was one.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2021)

josef1878 2.0 said:


> Frank was very badly advised, at least he's still with us and the two cunts are dead. Bizarre photo opportunity if ever there was one.


Savile staring from the background. A warning. The nonce cunt.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Sep 29, 2021)

Tony Blair gets the horn


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 29, 2021)

BF are getting a lot of publicity out of this registration, surely the ‘liberal’ press could just ignore this development since it’s not particularly newsworthy? ‘Political party registers’ isn’t really worth the headlines.


----------



## krink (Sep 29, 2021)

Drink in spoons
Poor teeth
Left school early
Fat
Red face
Not great at spelling
Have taken part in violence
Like football 

The evidence is really stacking up that I'm a fascist


----------



## teqniq (Dec 14, 2021)




----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

teqniq said:


>



they are the walrus


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

TopCat said:


> It’s broader than most.


as you can see from 984


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> With the Mason's shake. Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.


there is no 'the mason's shake'.

there are masons' handshakes, for entered apprentice, fellow craft and master mason.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> there is no 'the mason's shake'.
> 
> there are masons' handshakes, for entered apprentice, fellow craft and master mason.



Well they sort of are the same. The only difference is which two knuckles you place your thumb.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> With the Mason's shake. Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.


The Mason's Shake is that particular form of tremulation which occurs when you can't remember which end of the goat you're supposed to pour the lime jelly onto.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well they sort of are the same. The only difference is which two knuckles you place your thumb.


one tells the other mason you're a bit of a newbie. yeh they are similar: but not the same. like the class war skull and crossbones and the ss totenkopf skull and crossbones are similar: but not the same.


----------



## nogojones (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> there is no 'the mason's shake'.
> 
> there are masons' handshakes, for entered apprentice, fellow craft and master mason.


Have you made it to Grand Poobah yet?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

nogojones said:


> Have you made it to Grand Poobah yet?


i'm one of the few people here (Magnus McGinty being i think another) who isn't a mason


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> one tells the other mason you're a bit of a newbie. yeh they are similar: but not the same. like the class war skull and crossbones and the ss totenkopf skull and crossbones are similar: but not the same.



They are all the mason’s handshake. The only difference is which of 3 levels you think you’re at.  I do wonder what happens with those with big egos but little hands.


----------



## nogojones (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm one of the few people here (Magnus McGinty being i think another) who isn't a mason


Talk about cliques


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They are all the mason’s handshake. The only difference is which of 3 levels you think you’re at.  I do wonder what happens with those with big egos but little hands.


they have to stay in the junior masons


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They are all the mason’s handshake. The only difference is which of 3 levels you think you’re at.  I do wonder what happens with those with big egos but little hands.



you can see they're not all the same


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 300776
> you can see they're not all the same



If true, there’s more to it than I was led to believe. I thought it was just the knuckles thing.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> they have to stay in the junior masons


"Cubs"


----------



## Peter Painter (Dec 14, 2021)

Any truth, does anybody know, in the myth that wearing brogues if appearing in court is a good idea as they're some kind of masonic signal to any potential masonic judge/magistrate.

It sounded a bit far-fetched to me. But then, on the other hand, I failed to see how it could hurt to try it if ever up on a charge.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

Peter Painter said:


> Any truth, does anybody know, in the myth that wearing brogues if appearing in court is a good idea as they're some kind of masonic signal to any potential masonic judge/magistrate.
> 
> It sounded a bit far-fetched to me. But then, on the other hand, I failed to see how it could hurt to try it if ever up on a charge.


if you go into a court you'll see how difficult it would be for the judge or magistrate to get a good look at your shoes. and you never know if you'll get a woman judge or magistrate, which - unless they're a co-mason - would render the effort pointless.


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 14, 2021)

Peter Painter said:


> Any truth, does anybody know, in the myth that wearing brogues if appearing in court is a good idea as they're some kind of masonic signal to any potential masonic judge/magistrate.
> 
> It sounded a bit far-fetched to me. But then, on the other hand, I failed to see how it could hurt to try it if ever up on a charge.



Maybe if you walked in hand standing or sported a brogue necklace

I’ve worn a unit tie and taken an 18 year old 2nd Lt with me to court previously. That worked quite well


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## Peter Painter (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> if you go into a court you'll see how difficult it would be for the judge or magistrate to get a good look at your shoes. and you never know if you'll get a woman judge or magistrate, which - unless they're a co-mason - would render the effort pointless.



I suppose you could wear them on your hands and wave them about a bit...


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## ska invita (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 300776
> you can see they're not all the same


one for the interesting facts thread perhaps, but it was Irving Berlin, a 14th degree Mason, who wrote the lines 'one two three four i declare a thumb war'


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## hitmouse (Dec 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> there is no 'the mason's shake'.
> 
> there are masons' handshakes, for entered apprentice, fellow craft and master mason.


Shows how much you know. Here are the First, Second, Third and Fourth Degree Mason's Shakes:



Pickman's model said:


> if you go into a court you'll see how difficult it would be for the judge or magistrate to get a good look at your shoes. and you never know if you'll get a woman judge or magistrate, which - unless they're a co-mason - would render the effort pointless.


Think this is crossing over into territory for the short trousers thread.


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## mystic pyjamas (Dec 14, 2021)

It's the Catholics that run this forum not the masons.
    How many popes have been called Urban and what's the name of this forum....think about it.
    The number 75 also has occult connotations which I have yet to make up.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2021)

mystic pyjamas said:


> It's the Catholics that run this forum not the masons.
> How many popes have been called Urban and what's the name of this forum....think about it.
> The number 75 also has occult connotations which I have yet to make up.


so there's links with popes urban vii and urban v.


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## belboid (Dec 14, 2021)

mystic pyjamas said:


> It's the Catholics that run this forum not the masons.
> How many popes have been called Urban and what's the name of this forum....think about it.
> The number 75 also has occult connotations which I have yet to make up.


The numerical values of Hebrew word LILE meaning night, GhGB meaning lust, EILL meaning Lucifer, and ILLE meaning to lament, gives each one 75.

Nuff said.


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## MickiQ (Dec 14, 2021)

What's the difference between a pass grip and a real grip ?


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## tonysingh (Dec 14, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> What's the difference between a pass grip and a real grip ?



Thumb placement apparently.


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## MickiQ (Dec 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Thumb placement apparently.


well at least I know there is one other non-mason besides myself, I mean what's it for? when would you use a pass grip rather than a real grip?


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## Dom Traynor (Dec 14, 2021)

I would wear a pair of spatz in court.

Not to send a message I just like the look.


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