# Fake gold ring scam - coming soon to a street near you.



## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

This morning a woman attempted to convince me that she had found a gold ring on the pavement and that I should have it as it would be lucky for me.  Obviously she wanted some money in exchange for the gold ring and I was just not up for the scam.  

I am familiar with it anyway as a couple of months ago a man tried the same thing.  He wanted £20 for it but I wasn't interested.  I had only popped out to buy bread and I told him (truthfully) I only had £1.50 on me and showed him the coins from my purse at which point he grabbed the coins out of my hand and walked off cursing me in Roma. 

Even then I knew it was a scam but I took the ring to a local jeweller to be 100% sure and it was definitely a brass ring with a fake hallmark. 

I understand that this is a very common scam, especially in Paris for some reason.  I phoned the cops who told me that it is a very, very common scam in London right now.

The scammers have pockets full of worthless brass rings and can make a lot of money in a day if they get £20 or more for each ring.  

Just sharing


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## lighterthief (Feb 6, 2013)

You'd have to be an idiot to fall for that one.


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## Kanda (Feb 6, 2013)

If someone buys the ring they deserve to be scammed. Fucking idiots.... Really?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 6, 2013)

Odd people on the street are always my first port of call if I want to buy gold.


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## maomao (Feb 6, 2013)

Kanda said:


> If someone buys the ring they deserve to be scammed. Fucking idiots.... Really?


Why do so many people think stupidity needs to be punished? That's a rather unfair way of looking at life.


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## Kanda (Feb 6, 2013)

I was more looking at the greed point if view, not stupidity.


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

The man who tried to scam me attempted to embarrass me into buying the ring.
He put it on his finger, claimed that it didn't fit, then pressed it into my hand and said it would be lucky for me.
When I tried to give it back to him he started wailing really loudly that he had a wife at home with 6 children and a baby who needed milk and pampers.
He was attempting emotional blackmail on me and a part of me, had I had any proper cash on me, would have been tempted to give him a few quid just to stop him following me and wailing about his hungry kids at the top of his voice. Another part of me knew that he was a scammer and felt very angry with him for using a hungry baby (even a fictional one) to try to scam me.
I don't think that people fall for this just because of greed, sometimes it is embarrassment or pity that works on a scam victim. The scammers are skilled at what they do, it's their job, and they know which strings to pull to get people to hand over cash.


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

Ah that's lucky, you found my gold ring - as it's worth £20 you can keep it for a tenner as thank you - right?

( I like the cursing thieving Roma addition llb - nice work, you forgot the that he screeched it over his humped back though)


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 6, 2013)

hells bells, is this still going?

it was known as 'fawney dropping' in Victorian London.

I'd have thought they would have come up with a high-tech version by now


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> hells bells, is this still going?
> 
> it was known as 'fawney dropping' in Victorian London.
> 
> I'd have thought they would have come up with a high-tech version by now


Yeah innit, hardly anything new - it's probably the second oldest profession.


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Ah that's lucky, you found my gold ring - as it's worth £20 you can keep it for a tenner as thank you - right?
> 
> ( I like the cursing thieving Roma addition llb - nice work, you forgot the that he screeched it over his humped back though)


 
Well he was Roma, as I think was the woman who tried to scam me today. Didn't have hunched back though but don't let that stop you from getting your panties in a bunch.


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## bi0boy (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> especially in Paris for some reason.


 
I've never had anything like this in London but Paris is riddled with street entrepreneurs. From Africans who assault you to tie friendship bracelets around your wrist, to teams of Roma doing the cup and balls with their friends gathered round them pretending to be tourists and being very demonstrable about winning $20 every 3 minutes.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

some people really need to get a fucking clue
cheers for pointing out the exceedingly obvious tho!


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## joustmaster (Feb 6, 2013)

I would be tempted to spend the day following them, and spoiling the blag.


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> I would be tempted to spend the day following them, and spoiling the blag.


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> hells bells, is this still going?
> 
> it was known as 'fawney dropping' in Victorian London.
> 
> I'd have thought they would have come up with a high-tech version by now


Surely the old 'fake hifi speakers/telly/etc from the back of a white van' is a bit more up to date.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 6, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Surely the old 'fake hifi speakers/telly/etc from the back of a white van' is a bit more up to date.


 
I thought they were normally just nicked?


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I thought they were normally just nicked?


Nah, shit/no drivers in the speakers, box of bricks instead of the flat screen telly or camcorder, etc. If it was just stolen goods it wouldn't be a scam would it.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 6, 2013)

This is a (not very finessed) variation on the famous Pidgeon Drop con.  Also watch out for Find the Lady.  And remember that "Snake Oil" isn't real.


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> ( I like the cursing thieving Roma addition llb - nice work, you forgot the that he screeched it over his humped back though)


 
If that was the language he used what's wrong with saying so?


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

It seems to me that the people most likely to fall for the scam are people who are struggling financially and whose hope and optimism outweighs their critical faculties, even only momentarily.

So many people are worried about money and scared about their futures and it is not surprising that some people get momentarily carried away with optimism and fall for the scam.  

So this scam pisses me off because the scammers prey on people who are vulnerable.  It is a vile thing to do to someone, on a level with stealing from charity shops and stealing from the elderly.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

how long have you lived in the big city again?


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> If that was the language he used what's wrong with saying so?


It was also the fact that I'm sure that I've seen him before. 
For various reasons I can recognise some of the local Roma as I have had run ins with some of them, over stealing from charity shops and other stuff I don't want to go into here. 
I appreciate that not all Roma are bad people and that they are oppressed people, however the fact is that there are _some_ very dodgy Roma people about in London and this guy was one of them.


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> how long have you lived in the big city again?


 
@ me?

Oh the irony


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## Kanda (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm of the opinion they play on greed, not vulnerability...  I'd say vulnerable people would be a bit wiser with £20...


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## twentythreedom (Feb 6, 2013)

I can't remember who, but not long ago someone bought a 'laptop' on Kentish Town Rd, opened the laptop bag to find some potatoes making it weigh right


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> ... however the fact is that there are _some_ very dodgy Roma people about in London and this guy was one of them.


 
Yes. But you should know better than to say so round here!


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

twentythreedom said:


> I can't remember who, but not long ago someone bought a laptop on Kentish Town Rd, opened the laptop bag to find some potatoes making it weigh right


 
I have seen a scam like that in action in Greenland Rd, Camden.

These were traveller women, big stocky, red headed women who looked like they could do well in a street fight.  

Offered me a camcorder in a box for £100.  I declined but watched as they approached other people and eventually succeeded in getting a man to buy it from them.  I watched as they followed him to the cash point.  

The box would have had either potatoes or water bottles in it.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> @ me?
> 
> Oh the irony


  where's the irony?


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> I have seen a scam like that in action in Greenland Rd, Camden.
> 
> These were traveller women, big stocky, red headed women who looked like they could do well in a street fight.
> 
> ...


 so lucky that you are soooooo wise to these Roma and Traveller types eh!!
do you even read your own posts back to yourself?


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> where's the irony?


 
I would tell you but then I would have to kill you.

Seriously you have no idea and I'm not going to explain things to you here. 

It just pisses me off when people make smug, patronising comments about people who they know nothing about.


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## maomao (Feb 6, 2013)

Kanda said:


> I'm of the opinion they play on greed, not vulnerability... I'd say vulnerable people would be a bit wiser with £20...


What does vulnerable mean there? Can't work out what you're trying to say there at all.


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## weepiper (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> so lucky that you are soooooo wise to these Roma and Traveller types eh!!
> do you even read your own posts back to yourself?


 
Just missing the actual phrase 'thieving Gyppos' really.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> I would tell you but then I would have to kill you.
> 
> Seriously you have no idea and I'm not going to explain things to you here.
> 
> It just pisses me off when people make smug, patronising comments about people who they know nothing about.


threats and mystery ooooooooooooh
so you "know" that i have "no idea" but you have a problem with others thinking they have an idea about you? is that right?

grow up and get a clue
or just stop posting inane threads like this


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## Callie (Feb 6, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> This is a (not very finessed) variation on the famous Pidgeon Drop con.  Also watch out for Find the Lady.  And remember that "Snake Oil" isn't real.


Snake oil is real! You just need to press a LOT if snakes to make it worthwhile.


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> so lucky that you are soooooo wise to these Roma and Traveller types eh!!
> do you even read your own posts back to yourself?


 
You getting your dick stiff because she's described the people she encountered. Had they been skinheads, tories, poshos, or Chelsea supporters you wouldn't have a problem would you?

And I wouldn't be surprised if Lou does more work to help the disenfranchised in London than you and half this board combined. Wind your neck in.


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> so lucky that you are soooooo wise to these Roma and Traveller types eh!!
> do you even read your own posts back to yourself?


 
But the people most likely to be operating the fake ring scam are Roma.  Just as the people operating the fake laptop / camcorder are travellers.  

Do you think that it is best just not to mention this?

I am fairly sure that posters here are sufficiently sophisticated to appreciate that not all travellers / Roma are engaged in criminality just because some people from their communities are.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> You getting your dick stiff because she's described the people she encountered. Had they been skinheads, tories, poshos, or Chelsea supporters you wouldn't have a problem would you?
> 
> And I wouldn't be surprised if Lou does more work to help the disenfranchised in London than you and half this board combined. Wind your neck in.


 no i am not you weird sicko


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> But the people most likely to be operating the fake ring scam are Roma. Just as the people operating the fake laptop / camcorder are travellers.
> 
> Do you think that it is best just not to mention this?
> 
> I am fairly sure that posters here are sufficiently sophisticated to appreciate that not all travellers / Roma are engaged in criminality just because some people from their communities are.


butbutbut..... "some of my friends are..."

e2a so did you know they were Roma then? or they "probably" were as they are "most likely" ??


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

fuckinghell.

Seriously, louloubelle is usually one of the people who is the first to jump on folk making racist comments. Sometimes in a description when reporting a crime, you are allowed to mention where the person may have been from. It doesn't make you a massive fucking racist. You bunch of fucking pricks. Get a fucking life.

Fucking cunts.


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> But the people most likely to be operating the fake ring scam are Roma. Just as the people operating the fake laptop / camcorder are travellers.
> 
> Do you think that it is best just not to mention this?
> 
> I am fairly sure that posters here are sufficiently sophisticated to appreciate that not all travellers / Roma are engaged in criminality just because some people from their communities are.


 
Leave it, Lou.

You'll have the "right on brigade" piling in shortly. They love this shit.


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> fuckinghell.
> 
> Seriously, louloubelle is usually one of the people who is the first to jump on folk making racist comments. Sometimes in a description when reporting a crime, you are allowed to mention where the person may have been from. It doesn't make you a massive fucking racist. You bunch of fucking pricks. Get a fucking life.
> 
> Fucking cunts.


 
Well said.


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

Urban at its best eh?

I start a thread to try to warn / help people and lots of weirdness ensues
If I'm not careful this will engulf my insanely busy evening in tedium, pointlessness and delayed deadlines. 

bye


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## maomao (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> butbutbut..... "some of my friends are..."
> 
> e2a so did you know they were Roma then? or they "probably" were as they are "most likely" ??


 
Are you saying she couldn't possibly have recognised someone as Roma? What are you basing that on?

Scams or other ways of making money illegally tend to travel with communities because it works for a couple of people and word gets around about a good way to make money. I don't see how that's possibly racist.


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> no i am not you weird sicko


 
No, of course you're not.

Do you ever read your posts?


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

_I curse you you right-on metropolitan liberals _(some shit about hanging and ufos or some bollocks well etc)


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> butbutbut..... "some of my friends are..."


 
She's worth 50 of you.

Cunt.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

toys out so early!!   knights at the ready!! 
for fucks sake


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## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

maomao said:


> Are you saying she couldn't possibly have recognised someone as Roma? What are you basing that on?
> 
> Scams or other ways of making money illegally tend to travel with communities because it works for a couple of people and word gets around about a good way to make money. I don't see how that's possibly racist.


 
Exactly 

Just like you get Russians and Eastern Europeans involved in online fraud, German and British child abusers travelling to South East Asia to abuse kids, etc.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> She's worth 50 of you.
> 
> Cunt.


 niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
how many is she worth of you?


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> _I curse you you right-on metropolitan liberals _(some shit about hanging and ufos or some bollocks well etc)


wow, such substance. You really do add so very much to topics, I'm glad you post here


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> Exactly
> 
> Just like you get Russians and Eastern Europeans involved in online fraud, German and British child abusers travelling to South East Asia to abuse kids, etc.


 oooh keep going, do you have one for every country?!


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> wow, such substance. You really do add so very much to topics, I'm glad you post here


This, this was your come in post - i'm weighed under by its substance - is it gold by any chance? :



> fuckinghell.
> 
> Seriously, louloubelle is usually one of the people who is the first to jump on folk making racist comments. Sometimes in a description when reporting a crime, you are allowed to mention where the person may have been from. It doesn't make you a massive fucking racist. You bunch of fucking pricks. Get a fucking life.
> 
> Fucking cunts.


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## Mr Smin (Feb 6, 2013)

I for one am glad I no longer need to travel to Paris to experience authentic continental scams.


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> This, this was your come in post - i'm weighed under by its substance - is it gold by any chance? :


 
Better than anything you've posted here.


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> This, this was your come in post - i'm weighed under by its substance - is it gold by any chance? :


actually, it was a gut reaction to the fucking idiots who take any chance to attack someone for something which was pefectly innocent. It's just so very fucking pathetic. Yes, if there is racism aboard, call it up and slug it out. But that is not the case here, as well most of you know. It's a matter of common sense, which by the looks of it, isn't all that common after all.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

so who's the judge and jury and executioner out of you 3 then?


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> so who's the judge and jury and executioner out of you 3 then?


your fucking mum.


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 6, 2013)

Some Gipsies have a hard time of it. I remember as a teenager walking through town with my sister. We were accosted by a Gipsy woman with the cry of "Lucky white heather buy my lucky white heather". My sister took one hard look at the woman and said "Well it hasn't brought you much luck has it?"

I didn't buy any either.


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Better than anything you've posted here.


 
Still, at least i posted under my own name rather than going off and registering a sock-puppet to do it.


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> actually, it was a gut reaction to the fucking idiots who take any chance to attack someone for something which was pefectly innocent. It's just so very fucking pathetic. Yes, if there is racism aboard, call it up and slug it out. But that is not the case here, as well most of you know. It's a matter of common sense, which by the looks of it, isn't all that common after all.


Nice of you to decide this for everyone. Handy being omniscient is it? Logical too - you're allowed a gut reaction, other peoples gut reactions are not allowed.


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## paolo (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> so who's the judge and jury and executioner out of you 3 then?



Tbf you were the first to make judgement.

I rate Loulobelle as sound, and didn't see her posts as racist.


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 6, 2013)

lighterthief said:


> You'd have to be an idiot to fall for that one.


 
Some people are dumb greedy cunts.


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> butbutbut..... "some of my friends are..."
> 
> e2a so did you know they were Roma then? or they "probably" were as they are "most likely" ??


Ah well they were acting dodgy so they must ha...oh wait. 



paolo said:


> Tbf you were the first to make judgement.
> 
> I rate Loulobelle as sound, and didn't see her posts as racist.


Not especially so but I'm afraid most of us aren't blessed with the ability to tell a Traveller at a distance on sight (rather than on site *gets coat*).

The women were acting dodgy and presumably sounded a bit Irish? Ah, must be Travellers then - certainly you don't get any other sort of red headed criminal. 

Likewise some shady acting Eastern European pulling a street scam - oh must be Roma, all the other people from that part of the world are so law abiding they put a Buddhist monk to shame....

Do you see what we're getting at?


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## bi0boy (Feb 6, 2013)

So it's ok to say "I was scammed by an Eastern European", because everyone knows what they look and sound like, but because most Urban posters can't tell the difference between a Romanian and a Bulgarian accent, then identifying your scammer as such is suddenly massively racist?


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> So it's ok to say "I was scammed by an Eastern European", because everyone knows what they look and sound like, but because most Urban posters can't tell the difference between a Romanian and a Bulgarian accent, then identifying your scammer as such is suddenly massively racist?


Exactly that, yes - it's the jumping to conclusions about the racial heritage of the scammer based on prejudices commonly held by racists that's the problem. Exactly that.


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## bi0boy (Feb 6, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Exactly that, yes - it's the jumping to conclusions about the racial heritage of the scammer based on prejudices commonly held by racists that's the problem. Exactly that.


 
But you don't know that the OPs conclusions were jumped to based on racial prejudice, rather than perhaps an better understanding of the relevant language than you posses. And drawing the line between "Roma" as being unacceptable, and "Eastern Europeans" as being totally ok is nonsensical. You might talk about being scammed by Eastern Europeans so as not to appear a racist, but a Chinese person not familiar with the difference between Western and Eastern Europeans might then regard you as racist.


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

My suggestion was more that her post was basically just a re-telling of this sort of news story (possibly that exact article) with added fantasy roma-esque tropes. So well done xes, spymaster etc - you all got it wrong.


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## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Still, at least i posted under my own name rather than going off and registering a sock-puppet to do it.


 
I'm sure this post makes sense in your world.


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## bi0boy (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> My suggestion was more that her post was basically just a re-telling of this sort of news story with added fantasy roma-esque tropes. So well done xes, spymaster etc - you all got it wrong.


 
Perhaps you got it wrong? Or do you know more about the OP's familiarity with Roma people (or lack thereof) than anyone else on this thread?


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Perhaps you got it wrong? Or do you know more about the OP's familiarity with Roma people (or lack thereof) than anyone else on this thread?


My point was that the suggestions that i had pointed the finger at her for racism rather than having an exciting fantasy life was wrong. Did you read the article btw? Your suggestion that i was claiming something about her familiarity with roma suggests that you haven't.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

paolo said:


> Tbf you were the first to make judgement.
> 
> I rate Loulobelle as sound, and didn't see her posts as racist.


about it being fucking obvious that it was a scam, yes


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> But you don't know that the OPs conclusions were jumped to based on racial prejudice, rather than perhaps an better understanding of the relevant language than you posses. And drawing the line between "Roma" as being unacceptable, and "Eastern Europeans" as being totally ok is nonsensical. You might talk about being scammed by Eastern Europeans so as not to appear a racist, but a Chinese person not familiar with the difference between Western and Eastern Europeans might then regard you racist.






bi0boy said:


> Perhaps you got it wrong? Or do you know more about the OP's familiarity with Roma people (or lack thereof) than anyone else on this thread?


Sorry do you?


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## bi0boy (Feb 6, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Sorry do you?


 
I just like to assume people like the OP aren't massive racists.


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> you all got it wrong.


I knew it wouldn't be long before you got into your favourite topic. Telling people how wrong they are. Bravo, took a little bit longer than expected, but i knew it would happen.It's a bit of an obsession of yours ain't it.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> I knew it wouldn't be long before you got into your favourite topic. Telling people how wrong they are. Bravo, took a little bit longer than expected, but i knew it would happen.It's a bit of an obsession of yours ain't it.


but you're not denying he's correct


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> I knew it wouldn't be long before you got into your favourite topic. Telling people how wrong they are. Bravo, took a little bit longer than expected, but i knew it would happen.It's a bit of an obsession of yours ain't it.


 
So, i say that i think that a) didn't happened -  you say how dare you call a) racist? Bravo indeed.


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> but you're not denying he's correct


it's strange how often he thinks it.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> it's strange how often he thinks it.


i didn't think you were complaining about his thoughts.


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> I just like to assume people like the OP aren't massive racists.


I never said anything like that, but I did point out how some people might see it as tending that way. I'm sure if the OP isn't a massive racist (as is likely) they might like to be let know that it could come across that way to some people.


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> I knew it wouldn't be long before you got into your favourite topic. Telling people how wrong they are. Bravo, took a little bit longer than expected, but i knew it would happen.It's a bit of an obsession of yours ain't it.


btw could you recommend another way i could point out that you had totally misread what i had said (and so hilariously overreacted) other than saying that you were wrong?


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> So, i say that i think that a) didn't happened - you say how dare you call a) racist? Bravo indeed.


I never actually called you out on anything. I made a comment aabout the bullshit flack loulou was getting for no good reason. I didn't mention you, at all. I only replied to your post in their context. I haven't accused you of saying anything to anyone. But when I was out walking my dogs, I thought to myself something along the lines of "I bet butchers has said we're all wrong" because that's kind of your thing. And low and behold.....

anyway, there's football on. I'm sure that'll be mildly more fun than chewing the cudd with you ol' boy.


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> it's strange how often he thinks it.


Not so strange in our conversations though.


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## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> btw could you recommend another way i could point out that you had totally misread what i had said (and so hilariously overreacted) other than saying that you were wrong?


I think this pretty much covers it, whatever your sentiments.


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## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> fuckinghell.
> 
> Seriously, louloubelle is usually one of the people who is the first to jump on folk making racist comments. Sometimes in a description when reporting a crime, you are allowed to mention where the person may have been from. It doesn't make you a massive fucking racist. You bunch of fucking pricks. Get a fucking life.
> 
> Fucking cunts.


'yes officer, he was a gay, voice sounded a bit high for a bloke, you know what i mean'
"drama queen"


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## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> 'yes officer, he was a gay, voice sounded a bit high for a bloke, you know what i mean'
> "drama queen"


seem perfectly good decrepitions to me.

And I frequently use the term "drama queen" (because I am a MASSIVE homophobe)


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## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> I never actually called you out on anything. I made a comment aabout the bullshit flack loulou was getting for no good reason. I didn't mention you, at all. I only replied to your post in their context. I haven't accused you of saying anything to anyone. But when I was out walking my dogs, I thought to myself something along the lines of "I bet butchers has said we're all wrong" because that's kind of your thing. And low and behold.....


...and now an open lie.




			
				xes said:
			
		

> fuckinghell.
> 
> Seriously, louloubelle is usually one of the people who is the first to jump on folk making racist comments. Sometimes in a description when reporting a crime, you are allowed to mention where the person may have been from. It doesn't make you a massive fucking racist. You bunch of fucking pricks. Get a fucking life.
> 
> Fucking cunts.


 
Or are you telling me that this was in no way aimed at me?


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> ...and now an open lie.
> 
> 
> 
> Or are you telling me that this was in no way aimed at me?


 
It was aimed at everyone who had jumped on her.

It's not always about you.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> seem perfectly good decrepitions to me.
> 
> And I frequently use the term "drama queen" (because I am a MASSIVE homophobe)


yeah butbut you're "allowed" _obviously_


----------



## ddraig (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> I never actually called you out on anything. I made a comment aabout the bullshit flack loulou was getting for no good reason. I didn't mention you, at all. I only replied to your post in their context. I haven't accused you of saying anything to anyone. But when I was out walking my dogs, I thought to myself something along the lines of "I bet butchers has said we're all wrong" because that's kind of your thing. And low and behold.....
> 
> anyway, there's football on. I'm sure that'll be mildly more fun than chewing the cudd with you ol' boy.


wow! RIGHT! and psychic 
how do you do it?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> It was aimed at everyone who had jumped on her.
> 
> It's not always about you.


Very clear xes, i was in the group that you were swearing at and also not in it. So you're in the clear. Well done.


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Very clear xes, i was in the group that you were swearing at and also not in it. So you're in the clear. Well done.


aah shit, am i wrong? I'm so sorry 

(realised that I was posting on a laptop, and I can watch football and giggle at you at the same time)


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not so strange in our conversations though.


because you're above me, and everyone else, mr superiority complex.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> anyway, there's football on. I'm sure that'll be mildly more fun than chewing the cudd with you ol' boy.


 
Remember xes, we're the ones in white _and_ the ones in gold.


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

ddraig said:


> wow! RIGHT! and psychic
> how do you do it?


there were no psychic powers involved. It was a sure thing.


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Remember xes, we're the ones in white _and_ the ones in gold.


it's yellow.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> there were no psychic powers involved. It was a sure thing.


Yet you can't read what other people say correctly. What do you call this special double skill xes?


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Yet you can't read what other people say correctly. What do you call this special double skill xes?


yes thanks, dinner was lovely, we had chicken.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

xes said:


> it's yellow.


It can be anything you like at anytime you like apparently. Anything can.


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> It can be anything you like at anytime you like apparently. Anything can.


so very true. i'm glad you agree.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

Even gold.


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

wow, did you dig back through 5 years of my posts, or do you have a file on people so you can call them out on how wrong they are?

Fucking weirdo.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 6, 2013)

Yes, it's very hard and time consuming typing gold into a box, safe in the knowledge that at some point you would have taken an alchemists turn, in order to complete a punchline. It must have taken all of 10 seconds.


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2013)

yeeaah, suuure.

Stranger danger.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 6, 2013)

Some of these scams are soo old that anyone who has seen a TV or read a book should know of them. You'd think the con men would abandon them by now.


----------



## stuff_it (Feb 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Even gold.


Oh fancy not noticing that Xes trolls the science forum sometimes.


----------



## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Ah well they were acting dodgy so they must ha...oh wait.
> 
> 
> Not especially so but I'm afraid most of us aren't blessed with the ability to tell a Traveller at a distance on sight (rather than on site *gets coat*).
> ...


 
No they were travellers. You really do make some ridiculous assumptions in your post.
They spent several minutes trying to get me to buy a camcorder, as I explained in my earlier post. To do this they stood very close to me, probably because it is difficult and unwise to attempt to sell what you are claiming are stolen goods via a loudspeaker at a distance. I live a few minutes walk away from a traveller community, I know some of the kids there (although not really well) and I have also worked with traveller kids on and off over the years. The other clue to them being travellers is that I phoned the police and followed them while they accompanied their victim to the cash point and the police told me that they were travellers - a fact that was completely evident to me anyway.



stuff_it said:


> Likewise some shady acting Eastern European pulling a street scam - oh must be Roma, all the other people from that part of the world are so law abiding they put a Buddhist monk to shame....
> 
> Do you see what we're getting at?


 
You have a very naive view of Buddhist monks is all I can say 
There are plenty more like this guy and some even worse

http://www.abqjournal.com/main/2013/02/03/news/zen-master-molested-students-in-nm.html

naughty monks 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-gambling-smoking-and-drinking-at-party.html

http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/stor...-shi-yongxin-caught-visiting-prostitutes.html


----------



## Dan U (Feb 6, 2013)

I spent a pleasant 30 minutes on the south bank last summer watching a group of fellas from somewhere to the east of England relieve various groups of drunk people of their money doing that chase the ball game. 

Remarkable how many people a. Don't spot that the person who wins the initial money very publically is dressed very similarly to the guys running the game and b. Then proceed to lose large sums of cash. 

Good scam tbh.


----------



## xenon (Feb 6, 2013)

maomao said:


> Why do so many people think stupidity needs to be punished? That's a rather unfair way of looking at life.



I'ts a defence mechanism. X couldn't happen to me because I'm not that stupid / careless / imprudent....

That said, you'd have to be a bit of a mug or mentally impaired to fall for this.


----------



## xenon (Feb 6, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> hells bells, is this still going?
> 
> it was known as 'fawney dropping' in Victorian London.
> 
> I'd have thought they would have come up with a high-tech version by now



There's the one where some jakey (I'm gonna use that Scotts word yeah.) Tries to flog you a mobile phone. It's a model one nicked from Carphone Warehouse. Personlly I wouldn't want to buy a phone from someone in the street even if I believed it was real, as I would suspect it had been taken in a mugging.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 6, 2013)

Do you want to buy some speakers mate?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 6, 2013)

xenon said:


> There's the one where some jakey (I'm gonna use that Scotts word yeah.) ....


 
I had to look that one up.

For some reason, I'm more familiar with archaic London underworld terms than current Scots!


----------



## RaverDrew (Feb 6, 2013)

Coming soon to a street near you...

Roma Gypsies ready to sell you shit gold rings

Scousers ready to nick your hubcaps

Black yoot ready to jack you for your mobile

Muslim peadophile gangs ready to rape your daughters

louloubelle loves a good old sensationalist story, always has done, and yes, like others have said, she is the first to pull people up for their racism. So ffs she could have AT LEAST picked her words a bit better, there was fuck all reason to repeatedly bring race or ethnic origin into her little story. It's not just a trick pulled by Roma Gypsies anyway.

In fact was there really ANY reason for warning people about one of the oldest scams going as if it were something new ? Really what was your point louloubelle ? I'm truly baffled tbh 

It's the equivalent of starting a thread warning us that a poorly written email asking us to transfer some money to via Western Union, MIGHT NOT REALLY BE A GENUINE "CLAIM FEE" FOR A BIG WIN ON A FOREIGN LOTTERY WE DON'T EVEN REMEMBER ENTERING


----------



## RaverDrew (Feb 6, 2013)

louloubelle don't ever watch "The Real Hustle" it'll give you nightmares for weeks, and you'll end up starting a thread... "Scotsman and Greek geezer, beer token con - Coming to a pub near you soon"


----------



## Louloubelle (Feb 6, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> louloubelle don't ever watch "The Real Hustle" it'll give you nightmares for weeks, and you'll end up starting a thread... "Scotsman and Greek geezer, beer token con - Coming to a pub near you soon"


 
I know more about scams than the people producing that show

The ones I know about are on a bit of a warped tip though, the surreal hustle


----------



## brogdale (Feb 6, 2013)

So, best not to buy the ring, then?


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 6, 2013)

brogdale said:


> So, best not to buy the ring, then?


 
Oh I'm sure if the vendor is Swiss or Japanese or something you'll have nothing to fear.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> Well he was Roma, as I think was the woman who tried to scam me today. Didn't have hunched back though but don't let that stop you from getting your panties in a bunch.


 
Half the so-called Roma beggars are (according to my relatives in Bulgaria) Hungarian non-gypsies. I'm not sure whether this is some kind of Bulgarian/Hungarian hate thing, though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Surely the old 'fake hifi speakers/telly/etc from the back of a white van' is a bit more up to date.


 
Even the old "roll of carpet" _schtick_ is more up-to-date.


----------



## stuff_it (Feb 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Half the so-called Roma beggars are (according to my relatives in Bulgaria) Hungarian non-gypsies. I'm not sure whether this is some kind of Bulgarian/Hungarian hate thing, though.


Well quite - this is why I get so offended when blame gets put. 

As I have said before as a  direct (but lucky) victim of things like firebombing even as 'just' a hippy traveller I have hate speech detectors like fuck - just to make the record straight if I had been a parent and been at home that time we would all be dead or injured instead of just loosing everything. I know someone who would have dies if it weren't for a fluke - they got the fire extinguisher out of the cab of their merc van (where it normally was) and fell asleep with it on them - when the firebomb came through the skylight they had summat to fight their way out with - they carried on with a half-melted steering wheel etc. And this is just the hate shown towards 'hippy' Travellers....

Unless you have seen your mate die a week after going into hospital after a 'candle accident' in the same location then you have no fucking right to judge.


----------



## xenon (Feb 7, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Do you want to buy some speakers mate?




Leather jacket sir?


(soz couldn't help myself)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Ah well they were acting dodgy so they must ha...oh wait.
> 
> 
> Not especially so but I'm afraid most of us aren't blessed with the ability to tell a Traveller at a distance on sight (rather than on site *gets coat*).
> ...


 
No no no! If they sounded a bit Irish they were obviously Tinkers!.



> Likewise some shady acting Eastern European pulling a street scam - oh must be Roma, all the other people from that part of the world are so law abiding they put a Buddhist monk to shame....
> 
> Do you see what we're getting at?


 
A majority of the so-called "Roma" that get nicked for these sorts of cons tend to be east or central European, but about as genuinely Tzigany or Roma as my left bollock. I've known a few British Romanies to do this stuff, but they saw that sort of con as "womens' work".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> So it's ok to say "I was scammed by an Eastern European", because everyone knows what they look and sound like, but because most Urban posters can't tell the difference between a Romanian and a Bulgarian accent, then identifying your scammer as such is suddenly massively racist?


 
"Roma" doesn't mean Romanian, it means "Gypsy", and any fucker who can discern nationality from someone speaking Roma, or with a "Roma" accent is deceiving themselves. "Romani" is inflected differently in every country it is spoken in that has a Roma population.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

xes said:


> seem perfectly good decrepitions to me.
> 
> And I frequently use the term "drama queen" (because I am a MASSIVE homophobe)


 
Self-hate is a terrible thing, young xes.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Very clear xes, i was in the group that you were swearing at and also not in it. So you're in the clear. Well done.


 
Perhaps he means that you've achieved some form of immanence?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> No they were travellers. You really do make some ridiculous assumptions in your post.
> They spent several minutes trying to get me to buy a camcorder, as I explained in my earlier post. To do this they stood very close to me, probably because it is difficult and unwise to attempt to sell what you are claiming are stolen goods via a loudspeaker at a distance. I live a few minutes walk away from a traveller community, I know some of the kids there (although not really well) and I have also worked with traveller kids on and off over the years. The other clue to them being travellers is that I phoned the police and followed them while they accompanied their victim to the cash point and the police told me that they were travellers - a fact that was completely evident to me anyway.
> 
> 
> ...


 
To be fair, if the police told you they were travellers, you should have automatically realised that your own senses were betraying you, and that they were actually Texans complete with big hats.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> Coming soon to a street near you...
> 
> Scousers ready to nick your hubcaps


 
See, I never understood that one. Wouldn't it mean that Scousers had cars?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2013)

Kanda said:


> If someone buys the ring they deserve to be scammed. Fucking idiots.... Really?


The gullible need and deserve protection.


----------



## ymu (Feb 7, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> But the people most likely to be operating the fake ring scam are Roma. Just as the people operating the fake laptop / camcorder are travellers.
> 
> Do you think that it is best just not to mention this?
> 
> I am fairly sure that posters here are sufficiently sophisticated to appreciate that not all travellers / Roma are engaged in criminality just because some people from their communities are.


None of that is relevant.

Differences in ethnicity between different sorts of scammers and other criminals are of academic interest to a criminologist. The ethnicity of the scammer had no bearing on your OP. Mentioning it does not reduce the risk of someone falling for the scam, but it does increase the risk of discrimination against all members of the community identified, innocent or otherwise.

I'm not saying that this was your intent. It's a subconscious thing. People who are ripped off or treated badly by someone from a similar ethnicity and background don't tend to mention the ethnicity or background of the arsehole, they just say they got fucked over by an arsehole. When the arsehole happens to be 'other' their 'otherness' gets mentioned, to the detriment of all 'others'.

You're not being accused of conscious, deliberate racism. You're being asked to keep the subconscious racism (which is in all of us, it could not be otherwise growing up in a racist society) in check.


----------



## Frumious B. (Feb 7, 2013)

I liked the Roma Big Issue seller who used to be outside Sainsburys next to Brixton tube. Always had a lovely big smile.


----------



## tombowler (Feb 7, 2013)

In the summer there was a group of Czech Roma trying a similar scam at road junctions, the one who tried it on with me had a beaten up old bmw with what may have a been a woman sat in the back, he flagged me down saying he was from Germany and his credit card did not work in the CZ and needed money to drive home to Germany with his wife and child. He offered what he said was valuable jewelry as security on the loan and would mail me the money when he got home then I could mail the jewelry back to him. 
Problems were the jewelry looked like something from argos, although very clean, he could not speak German and the car had uk plates on it. 
It is a shame as the Roma I knew in the Uk were hard working honest folks who never turned down a job as they wanted to work, the minority pulling these stunts makes it so much harder for those escaping the poor treatment they get in CZ and other countries to be seen in a positive way.


----------



## DRINK? (Feb 7, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> I liked the Roma Big Issue seller who used to be outside Sainsburys next to Brixton tube. Always had a lovely big smile.


 
How do you know he is Roma? that sort of assumption will get you into trouble here.....saying that so long as you are saying nice things about him you should be ok


----------



## ymu (Feb 7, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> I liked the Roma Big Issue seller who used to be outside Sainsburys next to Brixton tube. Always had a lovely big smile.


And Palestinians can do no wrong.


----------



## ymu (Feb 7, 2013)

tombowler said:


> In the summer there was a group of Czech Roma trying a similar scam at road junctions, the one who tried it on with me had a beaten up old bmw with what may have a been a woman sat in the back, he flagged me down saying he was from Germany and his credit card did not work in the CZ and needed money to drive home to Germany with his wife and child. He offered what he said was valuable jewelry as security on the loan and would mail me the money when he got home then I could mail the jewelry back to him.
> Problems were the jewelry looked like something from argos, although very clean, he could not speak German and the car had uk plates on it.
> It is a shame as the Roma I knew in the Uk were hard working honest folks who never turned down a job as they wanted to work, the minority pulling these stunts makes it so much harder for those escaping the poor treatment they get in CZ and other countries to be seen in a positive way.


If only there were no white British criminals, white British people wouldn't suffer all this discrimination.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 7, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> This morning a woman attempted to convince me that she had found a gold ring on the pavement and that I should have it as it would be lucky for me. Obviously she wanted some money in exchange for the gold ring and I was just not up for the scam.
> 
> I am familiar with it anyway as a couple of months ago a man tried the same thing. He wanted £20 for it but I wasn't interested. I had only popped out to buy bread and I told him (truthfully) I only had £1.50 on me and showed him the coins from my purse at which point he grabbed the coins out of my hand and walked off cursing me in Roma.
> 
> ...


 
I'm a bit puzzled as to how you got the ring, considering that you didn't pay for it?  Did he give it to you when he grabbed some coins out of your hand?


----------



## rutabowa (Feb 7, 2013)

I pull off this gold ring scam whenever i need a bit of extra cash and I'm not Roma.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Feb 7, 2013)

ymu said:


> If only there were no white British criminals, white British people wouldn't suffer all this discrimination.


When I witnessed a boat burglary - I was asked to go to Tottenham copshop to see photos of convicted burglars, see if I could identify the man (he was of Eastern European appearance and  I heard him speaking some language I don't understand on a mobile phone).
Anyway, I went and I swear they showed me about 1000 photos of Phil and Grant Mitchell off Eastenders.


----------



## tombowler (Feb 7, 2013)

ymu said:


> If only there were no white British criminals, white British people wouldn't suffer all this discrimination.


i think you are being deliberately obtuse, or are just ignorant of the way the Roma are treated in CZ, Slovakia romania et al. they are treated as an underclass, even today the children are routinely put into special needs schools because it is still thought by many that Roma are of lower intelligence and can not learn. They are Viewed as stupid lazy dirty thieves, this is not true of the majority but due to discrimination they can not get employment in their home countries. They are truly a lost people their culture was destroyed by communist govt, thier people murdered on mass by the Nazis, one concentration camp in the CZ is now a fucking pig farm with no memorial, the eu have been telling the Czech govt to correct this but still they wont act, they have been ghettoized in many countries, even so far as being walled in. I can understand why they would see non Roma as a fair target to scam, not that I agree with it. 
And you go and post your fuckwitted comment about white people blah blah blah, you sire are an idiot of the first order.


----------



## rover07 (Feb 7, 2013)

rutabowa said:


> I pull off this gold ring scam whenever i need a bit of extra cash and I'm not Roma.



What sort of ring do you use?


----------



## ymu (Feb 7, 2013)

tombowler

If that's what you meant, why the fuck did you feel the need to post this:



tombowler said:


> It is a shame as the Roma I knew in the Uk were hard working honest folks who never turned down a job as they wanted to work, the minority pulling these stunts makes it so much harder for those escaping the poor treatment they get in CZ and other countries to be seen in a positive way.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

tombowler said:


> i think you are being deliberately obtuse, or are just ignorant of the way the Roma are treated in CZ, Slovakia romania et al. they are treated as an underclass, even today the children are routinely put into special needs schools because it is still thought by many that Roma are of lower intelligence and can not learn. They are Viewed as stupid lazy dirty thieves, this is not true of the majority but due to discrimination they can not get employment in their home countries. They are truly a lost people their culture was destroyed by communist govt, thier people murdered on mass by the Nazis, one concentration camp in the CZ is now a fucking pig farm with no memorial, the eu have been telling the Czech govt to correct this but still they wont act...


 
Not true, they're acting, they're just doing it ridiculously slowly, and making unnecessary "allowances" for many of the (anti-)social actions of post-Warsaw Pact EU member states.



> ...they have been ghettoized in many countries, even so far as being walled in.


 
That's what a ghetto is, an enclave, historically often walled in.



> I can understand why they would see non Roma as a fair target to scam, not that I agree with it.


 
Although by the logic you use above, such "fair targets" should surely be drawn from the Czechs, Romanians etc who have spent so long stigmatising them?



> And you go and post your fuckwitted comment about white people blah blah blah, you sire are an idiot of the first order.


 
Tom, do you not think you're reinforcing the use of stereotypes about Roma by making broad-brush excuses for acts through reference to the suffering of the Roma?
I don't and won't excuse the criminal actions of the state of Israel, or of individual Jews through referencing the suffering of Jews of murderous Judaeophobia for 2000 years. I don't do so because to do so would be fatuous, and would play into the hands of the very actors I disagree with.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

rover07 said:


> What sort of ring do you use?


 
Your mum's.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Feb 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> To be fair, if the police told you they were travellers, you should have automatically realised that your own senses were betraying you, and that they were actually Texans complete with big hats.


----------



## tombowler (Feb 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> 1)Not true, they're acting, they're just doing it ridiculously slowly, and making unnecessary "allowances" for many of the (anti-)social actions of post-Warsaw Pact EU member states.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1) They are not acting and have said they wont as it will cost too much to move the farm
2) I have read that the reasoning is that all non roma had been bad to them so all non roma are a target, i do not condone that reasoning or their actions
3) I don't excuse them for doing it, having an understanding is very different from excusing it, I understand why some of the people of Palestine consider using themselves as a human bomb against the Israilie occupiers but in no way would I condone it or say it is right.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

tombowler said:


> 1) They are not acting and have said they wont as it will cost too much to move the farm


 
I'm not talking about the instance of the farm, but about the rest of the EU pulling the Czech and other governments for their treatment of Roma. The farm argument misses the point that perhaps a majority of Roma, certainly a significant minority, died in forced labour and death camps to which they were deported across the "Greater Reich", not in a single concentration camp.



> 2) I have read that the reasoning is that all non roma had been bad to them so all non roma are a target, i do not condone that reasoning or their actions
> 3) I don't excuse them for doing it, having an understanding is very different from excusing it, I understand why some of the people of Palestine consider using themselves as a human bomb against the Israilie occupiers but in no way would I condone it or say it is right.


 
Your reasoning provides an implicit excuse, though. Saying (to paraphrase) "make allowances for all Roma whatever they happen to do, because of the suffering their 'race' has undergone" does *exactly* that.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 8, 2013)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I'm a bit puzzled as to how you got the ring, considering that you didn't pay for it? Did he give it to you when he grabbed some coins out of your hand?


 
Yes.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 8, 2013)

I went in the cash for gold shop and asked for value of my wedding ring. They offered me 89p


----------



## el-ahrairah (Feb 8, 2013)

what we all want to know, is it a nice ring though?  i mean, if it's a nice ring then at least you get something pretty out of it.


----------



## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

Just a flying visit as am very busy 

The guy who gave me the ring pressed it into my hand and refused to take it back.  I tried to give it to him and this is when he started to wave his arms in the air and wail about needing milk and pampers for his baby.

I no longer have the ring a I handed it in to the news desk of my local newspaper who said that they would be interested to see it and maybe take a photo - although they never did write anything about the story. 

ymu's point about racism is, to some extent valid I think, simply because even the most anti-racist person can experience moments of racism - it is the nature of racism to be largely unconscious IMO. 

However I am not convinced that mentioning that the ring scam guy was Roma is necessarily racist.  I have had many experiences over the last few years involving Roma criminals and the police, I would be here all day if I wrote about them all.  It is difficult because so many of the Roma I recognise in my area are involved in shoplifting (mainly from charity shops - an activity that enrages me), trafficking children and vulnerable adults and making them beg for money (another thing that infuriates me), and pickpocketing (same emotional response as to the other issues).  

Because I have called the police in relation to these issues, and because some cops have talked to me about the people involved, I do know that they are Roma.  I have also worked as an anti-trafficking activist for many years and I know that some Roma are very serious criminals who would sell their own children or even grandchildren to make money.  I also know that some Roma kids just don't have a chance in life as they are exploited by their parents from a very young age.  It breaks my heart to see kids treated in such a way. 

I have also stood outside Oxfam with a PCSO and waited for the cops to while detaining 2 Roma young women who were stealing clothes from a charity shop that one of my friends manages.  I waited for about 15 minutes while a random white woman woman shouted abuse at me for "oppressing vulnerable ethnic minorities".    The cops turned up, took another 10 minutes of faffing about before finally letting the women go without charge because "the charity shop wouldn't be able to confirm that the stock was theirs" (came as a surprise to my friend who was very upset that they didn't bother to ask her as she could have IDd the stock no problem).  In this situation it seemed to me that the real reason why the cops didn't want to take the matter further was because a) the women started to pretend that they couldn't speak English as soon as the cops arrived (they had managed to speak English no problem prior to that) and thus the cops would need to pay for an interpreter to take things further and b) that the cops didn't consider stealing from a charity shop as as important as stealing from some other shop (probably the direct opposite to how I see it).

One of the cops in the above scenario told me that both women were well known to the police for shoplifting and begging and that one had form for pickpocketing.  I can understand that the police have limited resources and that they are reluctant to spend valuable resources paying for an interpreter so that they can prosecute people for stealing from charity shops.  It was just depressing to spend so much time helping the PCSO to detain the women and getting shouted at by the random white woman all for nothing.  

I am definitely very far from any kind of expert on the Roma and it may be that there are very lovely, sweet, honest non-criminal Roma who I just have not noticed, just because my my nature I will always notice dodgy people.   

Back to the issue of confronting racism ; it seems to me also that if anyone wants to invite a person to consider whether something they have said or done might be racist then posting a lot of aggressive attacks on a thread it never going to work.  

The fact is that on urban there are certain people who just love storming into a discussion and throwing their weight around and being "considerably more right on that you".  It always used to be Dubversion, now quite often it is Butchers and ddraig, who often crash into threads with depressing predictability and then things just go downhill from there.  Maybe it is just some archetypal thing that if Butchers and ddrraig didn't do, someone else would.  It may make them feel superior or give them a warm, happy feeling in their tummies, but one thing it will never really do is to help anyone to think about any kind of sensitive issue, whether racism or anything else.  Just my humble opinion.


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

do you want to be a cop?


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## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2013)

Wow, that all sounds totally better and not made up. Sorry for doubting you.


----------



## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

pinkmonkey said:


> When I witnessed a boat burglary - I was asked to go to Tottenham copshop to see photos of convicted burglars, see if I could identify the man (he was of Eastern European appearance and I heard him speaking some language I don't understand on a mobile phone).
> Anyway, I went and I swear they showed me about 1000 photos of Phil and Grant Mitchell off Eastenders.


 
AFAIK most burglars here in the UK are white males.


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## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2013)

Yes, ddraig and butchers in for the kill


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> do you want to be a cop?


 
Not in a million years.  

They have to abide my rules that I don't have to.


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

and you are wrong, your thread was stupid and still is stupid so i said it was stupid, please link to where i called you a racist
oh but you're soooo busy you only have a few mins to justify yourself and run away again to save the borough! well done you


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, ddraig and butchers in for the kill


 
It must make you happy in your tummy to be such a madry sod though surely?

Otherwise you wouldn't do it would you?


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## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> It must make you happy in your tummy to be such a madry sod though surely?
> 
> Otherwise you wouldn't do it would you?


Diagnosed!


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> and you are wrong, your thread was stupid and still is stupid so i said it was stupid, please link to where i called you a racist
> oh but you're soooo busy you only have a few mins to justify yourself and run away again to save the borough! well done you


 
You didn't call me a racist 

You were suggesting that a thread warning people about a gold ring scam was stupid.  It seems to me that you get your jollies from imagining yourself to be cleverer than other people.  I think you enjoy a smug feeling of superiority that comes from being sneery.


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

many others said it was a stupid thread, for a few reasaons but if you actually read it properly it was warning people of somethign so obvious that it is laughable
and you are a sensationalist, suck it up


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Diagnosed!


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> You didn't call me a racist
> 
> You were suggesting that a thread warning people about a gold ring scam was stupid. It seems to me that you get your jollies from imagining yourself to be cleverer than other people. I think you enjoy a smug feeling of superiority that comes from being sneery.


so you already admit you just misrepresented what i said then?
just a few posts ago


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> You didn't call me a racist
> 
> You were suggesting that a thread warning people about a gold ring scam was stupid. It seems to me that you get your jollies from imagining yourself to be cleverer than other people. I think you enjoy a smug feeling of superiority that comes from being sneery.


 what is sneery about having an opinion that your op was stupid?
are all the others who said it was obvious sneery too?


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

touched a raw nerve with the sneery thing did I ?


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> touched a raw nerve with the sneery thing did I ?


 no i think you can't handle being wrong
especially since your such an "expert" on these things


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## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2013)

And there was me thinking that most sane people find that poor people shop lifting is kind of acceptable and orchestrating the arrest of such people as a bit cunty. 

You live and learn.

Gotta fight those crooks that capital produces.


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## Spymaster (Feb 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> ...
> especially since your such an "expert" on these things


 
If only you knew. Dickhead.


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

awwww
the cunty knight is here again!! tada


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## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2013)

Of course, white English folk don't run brothels, scam people or steal from charity shops.


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## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course, white English folk don't run brothels, scam people or steal from charity shops.


I saw them, they ran off cursing me in some language between playing cricket on a village green with warm beer


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## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2013)

Anyway loulou, you contradicted yourself. You stated that you couldn't recall meeting any Roma who weren't criminals (a criminal race?) in one breath whilst stating that they will exploit their own family in the next. Are the exploited also criminals?


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

and if you are so knowledgeable about "them" and even helping the plod round em up how the fuck haven't you come across this scam before? not very observant for someone who knows so much are you?
didn't one of your matey bobbies warn you about it?


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## Spymaster (Feb 8, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyway loulou, you contradicted yourself. You stated that you couldn't recall meeting any Roma who weren't criminals (a criminal race?) in one breath whilst stating that they will exploit their own family in the next. Are the exploited also criminals?


 
How's that a contradiction?


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## Paulie (Feb 8, 2013)

Since associating a particular ethnicity with a particular crime seems a very touchy point around here; how do people feel about Operation Trident and its slant towards black youngsters?  Racist?  Pragmatic?  Pointless?

I have this silly idea that online scammers most often work out of West Africa or East Europe and big heists (Brinks-Mat, Northern Bank etc.) are carried out by white blokes.  Someone please shoot down my ignorance in a blaze of..er.. ignominy.


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## stuff_it (Feb 8, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> Just a flying visit as am very busy
> 
> The guy who gave me the ring pressed it into my hand and refused to take it back. I tried to give it to him and this is when he started to wave his arms in the air and wail about needing milk and pampers for his baby.
> 
> ...


Or perhaps even the police didn't have the heart to prosecute people who were desperate enough to steal food and steal used clothes from charity shops?


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyway loulou, you contradicted yourself. You stated that you couldn't recall meeting any Roma who weren't criminals (a criminal race?) in one breath whilst stating that they will exploit their own family in the next. Are the exploited also criminals?


 
A complete misrepresentation of what I said.
Not all Roma will exploit their own families.  Obviously. At no time did I call the Roma a criminal race. 
Some Roma do exploit their own and / or other people's children.  Some Albanian pimps sell their own kids too, in fact, sorry to be blunt but some sections of the Albanian community are notorious for exploiting their own kids.  Others would never hurt their own kids but happily keep house slaves.  Some are decent lovely people.  I used to know a Turkish young woman who was pimped out by her own grandmother when she was 14 years old.  
Your post is based on the incorrect assumption that I have never met any Roma crime victims and (and this is important) that Roma people (or anyone else) cannot belong to a category of victim and criminal at the same time.  You ask "are the exploited also criminals?" and the answer, obviously, is "sometimes, yes".  In fact if you work around issues relating to trafficking, especially with communities who have experienced genocide, racism and oppression over generations, then the answer is probably "quite a lot of the time".


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Or perhaps even the police didn't have the heart to prosecute people who were desperate enough to steal food and steal used clothes from charity shops?


 
I think you have a fairly naive perspective re this.  The women had criminal records as long as your arm and were well known to the police, one of them for pickpocketing, which is a scummy crime IMO.  They don't steal from charity shops because they are desperate they do it because they think that they will get away with it because the charity shops can't afford big security guards like the big shops do.  Also my friend's charity shop employs people with learning difficulties as staff, so they think that can just take the piss and take what they like.  Not when I'm around they won.t.  Grrr


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## stuff_it (Feb 8, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> I think you have a fairly naive perspective re this. The women had criminal records as long as your arm and were well known to the police, one of them for pickpocketing, which is a scummy crime IMO. They don't steal from charity shops because they are desperate they do it because they think that they will get away with it because the charity shops can't afford big security guards like the big shops do. Also my friend's charity shop employs people with learning difficulties as staff, so they think that can just take the piss and take what they like. Not when I'm around they won.t. Grrr


I find it very unlikely that people make a 'profession' out of stealing from charity shops - it's not that difficult to nick from better shops if you're on the case. Surely if they were part of some sort of organised criminal dynasty they would have the skillz taught to them from a young age like proper British criminals are.


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

wow louloubelle! the judge as well as the police helper and expert witness now! is there any part of the justice system you don't reign righteously over???


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## Louloubelle (Feb 8, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> I find it very unlikely that people make a 'profession' out of stealing from charity shops - it's not that difficult to nick from better shops if you're on the case. Surely if they were part of some sort of organised criminal dynasty they would have the skillz taught to them from a young age like proper British criminals are.


 
Of course they don't make their living stealing from charity shops.  They are involved in other crimes as I explained in an earlier post.  My impression of them stealing from charity shops, especially what they has stolen (snakeskin sandals and silk scarves) was that for them it was just enjoyable to help themselves in the security of knowing that they were 99.9% likely to get away with it.  I mean they got away with it even though they got caught and interviewed by the cops.  In a way you can't really blame them for doing it and given my understanding of how the police deal with (or not) this kind of thing there is no way I would bother calling the cops again.  If I ever see them (or anyone else) stealing from my friend's shop again I will relieve them of their bounty myself.  

FWIW if they want to steal from M&S or Sainsbury's it is entirely between them and the security guards in the shop.


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## geminisnake (Feb 8, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> And remember that "Snake Oil" isn't real.


 
Do you own a snake?? Have you ever had to clean the inside of a vivarium? Snake oil or grease DOES exist!


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2013)

Can i buy it, will it cure my baldness?


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## geminisnake (Feb 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Can i buy it, will it cure my baldness?


 
I have no idea, but judging from the snake's smoothness I'd say not and tbh I'm not sure I fancy scraping it into a jar


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## frogwoman (Feb 8, 2013)

ymu said:


> If only there were no white British criminals, white British people wouldn't suffer all this discrimination.


 
Why isn't there a white history month


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## frogwoman (Feb 8, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> It's the equivalent of starting a thread warning us that a poorly written email asking us to transfer some money to via Western Union, MIGHT NOT REALLY BE A GENUINE "CLAIM FEE" FOR A BIG WIN ON A FOREIGN LOTTERY WE DON'T EVEN REMEMBER ENTERING


 
If you get an email telling you that you have won a prize because you are the 100, 000, 000, 000th person to see this message, it might not be true and you probably won't get a prize.


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## ddraig (Feb 8, 2013)

and if you do a favour for an Arab (insert devil of the moment) man he will then advise you not to fly on a certain date then it is your lucky day as he "knows" and has saved your life! yikes


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## frogwoman (Feb 8, 2013)

And if you don't copy and paste this message to 10 people in twelve hours then you will die. If you get this message back ten times your wishes will come true


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## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> How's that a contradiction?



All Roma are criminals. Even the exploited ones. 

I wonder if she considered trafficked Roma women forced on the game as criminals also. I suspect not.


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## Spymaster (Feb 8, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> All Roma are criminals. Even the exploited ones.
> 
> I wonder if she considered trafficked Roma women forced on the game as criminals also. I suspect not.



PM coming.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> However I am not convinced that mentioning that the ring scam guy was Roma is necessarily racist.  I have had many experiences over the last few years involving Roma criminals and the police, I would be here all day if I wrote about them all.  It is difficult because so many of the Roma I recognise in my area are involved in shoplifting (mainly from charity shops - an activity that enrages me), trafficking children and vulnerable adults and making them beg for money (another thing that infuriates me), and pickpocketing (same emotional response as to the other issues).



Do you happen to note all of the different races robbing from the charity shop or just the Roma doing it? Because either:

A) only the Roma are robbing the charity shop, or

B) they're the only ones you're noticing - which is as dodgy as fuck.

I also have an issue with you slating the Roma for begging in one breath, but defending charities in the next who basically do the same thing.

Foreigner asking for cash = bad. Organisation asking for cash who has paid employees = defend vigorously.


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## Greebo (Feb 8, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> And if you don't copy and paste this message to 10 people in twelve hours then you will die. If you get this message back ten times your wishes will come true


Somebody I know (who is otherwise sane) is an absolute slave to bloody chain letters of any and all formats.  She even texted VP one on his birthday.


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## frogwoman (Feb 8, 2013)

If you send this message on to one person you will have good luck!
If you send it on to 5 people you will get a new job!
If you send it on to 10 people you will meet the man of your dreams!
If you send it on to 100 people you will win the lottery!


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## Greebo (Feb 8, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> If you send this message on to one person you will have good luck!
> If you send it on to 5 people you will get a new job!
> If you send it on to 10 people you will meet the man of your dreams!
> If you send it on to 100 people you will win the lottery!


Fail to send it on and every child in the world will die, every puppy will remain bald, and every kitten will be ugly.


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## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2013)

Like this post if you're not a massive racist.


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## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Louloubelle said:


> Just a flying visit as am very busy
> 
> The guy who gave me the ring pressed it into my hand and refused to take it back. I tried to give it to him and this is when he started to wave his arms in the air and wail about needing milk and pampers for his baby.
> 
> ...


The racism in your first post could be considered an innocent mistake and I took some care to ensure that I explained the problem to you in a way that did not attack you for it.

This post (bolded part) is extraordinarily racist and cannot be innocently so. You are so prejudiced against Roma people that you're not even sure if there might be "lovely, sweet, honest, non-criminal Roma" in existence. That is astonishingly racist and you're so prejudiced you can't even see it.



Paulie said:


> Since associating a particular ethnicity with a particular crime seems a very touchy point around here; how do people feel about Operation Trident and its slant towards black youngsters? Racist? Pragmatic? Pointless?
> 
> I have this silly idea that online scammers most often work out of West Africa or East Europe and big heists (Brinks-Mat, Northern Bank etc.) are carried out by white blokes. Someone please shoot down my ignorance in a blaze of..er.. ignominy.


It's not a touchy subject. I think everyone here recognises that some crimes are strongly associated with different ethnicities and different classes and different geographical areas and so on. That's what criminologists study and they're not coy about publishing their results.

But this is not a thread about the association between ethnicity and different types of crime. It is a thread purportedly warning people of an age-old scam which might be tried by anyone at all. She's not saying it's safe to buy the ring _unless_ they're Roma. So what does she add by mentioning it? Nothing except a reinforcement of the widespread prejudice against Roma people which she has just confirmed that she shares.

The same widespread prejudice that has seen Roma and other travellers denied much of the seasonal work that some used to rely on for an income (eg fruit-picking, now done primarily by immigrants, who are also the target of irrational hatred from prejudiced locals).

She'd never conclude that all white British people are likely to be criminals from observing that most shop-lifters, pick-pockets, car thieves, muggers, burglars, bank-robbers, drug dealers, fraudsters, murderers, rapists, paedophiles and bankers are white British. That's because she knows plenty of white British people and it would be an absurd conclusion to draw. But _even after the absurdity has been pointed out to her_ she can happily conclude that all Roma might be criminals because the only Roma she has noticed are involved in criminal activity.

That's virtually the definition of racism. If she thinks she isn't a racist, she's deluded.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> But _even after the absurdity has been pointed out to her_ she can happily conclude that all Roma might be criminals because the only Roma she has noticed are involved in criminal activity.



Except for the Roma she mentions who are exploited by their own families. Presumably they're criminal by association.


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## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Can i buy it, will it cure my baldness?


 
Give it a go. It might even do something for your impotency.


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## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Except for the Roma she mentions who are exploited by their own families. Presumably they're criminal by association.


Nah, you're wrong on this one, sorry. Being a criminal is no guarantee that you won't be a victim of crime. I know a drug dealer whose father broke into his house and stole his stash and cash when he was in hospital. They're both criminals.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> Nah, you're wrong on this one, sorry. Being a criminal is no guarantee that you won't be a victim of crime. I know a drug dealer whose father broke into his house and stole his stash and cash when he was in hospital. They're both criminals.



Even those below the age of criminal responsibility?


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## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Even those below the age of criminal responsibility?


Legally, no. You're grasping at straws if you're trying to redefine "family" as "children below the age of criminal responsibilty" though. And it does nothing to counter her primary assertion. There's no contradiction in what she said (in the absence of pedantry) and it's nowhere near the most offensive thing she said anyway.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2013)

geminisnake said:


> Do you own a snake?? Have you ever had to clean the inside of a vivarium? Snake oil or grease DOES exist!




Yes, but "Snake Oil" the bottled panacea sold by con men in the 19th Century was not real.


----------



## maomao (Feb 9, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, but "Snake Oil" the bottled panacea sold by con men in the 19th Century was not real.


This bottle looks real to me.

http://legendsofavalon.co.uk/Anna-R...edium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=google_base


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## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:
			
		

> Legally, no. You're grasping at straws if you're trying to redefine "family" as "children below the age of criminal responsibilty" though. And it does nothing to counter her primary assertion. There's no contradiction in what she said (in the absence of pedantry) and it's nowhere near the most offensive thing she said anyway.



Of course it is. If on the one hand she says she hasn't met any Roma who weren't crooked whilst on the other saying she had come across exploited Roma children how is that not contradictory and slightly dodgy?


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## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm not going round in circles with you on this Citizen. Prioritise the issues as you wish and I will do likewise.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2013)

maomao said:


> This bottle looks real to me.
> 
> http://legendsofavalon.co.uk/Anna-R...edium=Product_Search&utm_campaign=google_base


I've just ordered it, as I could do with some help in legal and monetary matters.


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## stuff_it (Feb 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Even those below the age of criminal responsibility?


What about families on council estates where the kids under ten run crack and weed and go out nicking bikes even though their mums don't want them to - safe in the knowledge they can't get done?

I suspect that due to their work with trafficking that the OP comes across a lot of situations where they meet foreign nationals that are not to put a finer point on it the worst sort of criminal - I also suspect that they don't know any large amounts of people from those same countries or ethnicities socially.


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## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

That's not just on council estates, that's kids all over. Middle-class ones tend to sell drugs rather than run them, vandalise more expensive shit, and steal a lot of vehicles, often belonging to their parents because their parents have flash cars. The richer they are the less likely they are to get involved with the criminal justice system. I knew a couple of children of the ruling class who stole a teacher's car and the school milk float. Brought home by police, not expelled, not prosecuted, not even cautioned. One got expelled for stealing chloroform and selling it to younger kids. No prosecution.

It's a fucking myth that working class kids are rougher. They just don't have any defence against the police and they're more likely to use physical instead of psychological bullying because middle-class kids are rarely out of sight of a teacher/parent/nanny.


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## stuff_it (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> That's not just on council estates, that's kids all over. Middle-class ones tend to sell drugs rather than run them, vandalise expensive shit, and steal vehicles. The richer they are the less likely they are to get involved with the criminal justice system. I knew a couple of children of the ruling class who stole a teacher's car and the school milk float. Brought home by police, not expelled, not prosecuted, not even cautioned. One got expelled for stealing chloroform and selling it to younger kids.
> 
> It's a fucking myth that working class kids are rougher. They just don't have any defence against the police and they're more likely to use physical instead of psychological bullying because middle-class kids are rarely out of sight of a teacher/parent/nanny.


Well quite, but you're more likely to bump into working class ones out doing minor crime in the street where I've lived. I don't ever mix with the upper class nor really come in to contact with them. Certainly stealing the milk float from outside your private school won't come to my personal attention as much as having local kids trying to sell me a bike.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2013)

ymu said:
			
		

> I'm not going round in circles with you on this Citizen. Prioritise the issues as you wish and I will do likewise.



I'm not prioritising anything. It's part of the same racism, not separate.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 9, 2013)

Paulie said:


> Since associating a particular ethnicity with a particular crime seems a very touchy point around here; how do people feel about Operation Trident and its slant towards black youngsters? Racist? Pragmatic? Pointless?


 
Trident's "slant" has changed over the years. Used to be "anti-Yardie", targeting Anglo-Jamaican crims and their wannabes, now focused mostly on what you mentioned above.
Is it pragmatic? Not really. The problem of youth "gangsterism" moved beyond poor urban black youth back in the early '80s, and while such people *are* over-represented in gang culture, they're not the only element engaged in it. Concentration on anti-gang work _per se_ has a better chance of working if it doesn't only tackle one part of the problem.
Is it racist? Hard to answer, beyond the fact that Trident is an ongoing operation run by a police force with some very deep issues with regard to institutional and individual racist behaviour.



> I have this silly idea that online scammers most often work out of West Africa or East Europe and big heists (Brinks-Mat, Northern Bank etc.) are carried out by white blokes. Someone please shoot down my ignorance in a blaze of..er.. ignominy.


 
I'm not sure the old "racial divide" in crime has held even slightly true for the last 30 years.  The days when whites were supposedly all blaggers and burglars, blacks were supposedly all pimps or dealers and Turks were supposedly all smack importers are long gone. As for the "phishing" scams and 419s, some of them are done in-country and in Europe now, not just in west African states.

Problem is, most crime journos are still stuck firmly in the '80s-'90s, so a fair bit of biased crap still floats off the presses.


----------

