# Hourly paid workers sent home without pay due to no work



## High Voltage (Oct 21, 2008)

This is a genuine enquiry.

I have in the past been both hour paid AND salaried.

I have worked in Union shops but have worked in non-union firms as well.

I've worked in small firms, medium sized firms, right up to full on multi-nationals.

Anyway, I got into discussion with a colleague about the shop floor chaps/esses where I'm working and how they "appear" to make a job last a shift if they've got nothing else to do.

Apart from fucking up the production figures, I couldn't see anything really wrong with it, and would probably do the same in their position, better to do something that be sat around doing nothing blah blah blah.

Colleague assured me that they could be sent home WITHOUT PAY if their was nothing for them to do.

The look of Horror and Disbelief he found hard to believe.

Now. I've heard of this with dodgy fly-by-night companies And in the docks where people used to be taken on for hours at a time and then sent home, but that was in the dark ages.

Surely, this isn't "legal" or allowed nowadays.

Or am I, once again, living in lala land??


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## Stig (Oct 21, 2008)

In our firm, hourly paid workers who are employed directly by us can't be sent home at all, but can be told there is no work tomorrow.

Agency staff can be sent home at lunchtime, but once hired there is a minimum term of half a day they must be paid for.


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## Divisive Cotton (Oct 21, 2008)

I'm not aware of this being common - what sort of work are they doing and how many of them are there?


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## Agent Sparrow (Oct 21, 2008)

This has happened to me in a few hourly paid jobs. In fact one job was worse - one winter it snowed so no-one came out to the store, so they made the majority of the staff clock off and sit in the staff room until it was busy enough for us to clock on again.


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## cesare (Oct 21, 2008)

As Stig said, different rules apply for agency workers as opposed to hourly paid workers.

If they are directly employed hourly paid employees, you will need to look at the terms of the contract. The basic premise for an employment relationship is 'mutuality of obligation' i.e. the employer has to provide work and the employee has to carry out that work (whether they are hourly paid, weekly paid, salaried etc). 

However, sometimes there are clauses in the employment contract or handbook that can provide for situations where there is no work, either on a short or longer term basis. For example, there could be a clause which states that the employer will commit to a certain minimum number of hours per week, and the remainder of weekly hours will depend on the amount of work available. That's just one example.

There could also be a clause about 'short time working' and 'guarantee payments' but that's more usual in the manufacturing sector tbh. I can go into more detail about that if you want.


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## idioteque (Oct 21, 2008)

My work (hourly paid) sometimes sends us home if it's not busy, without pay- they ask if you want to go, and you can decline and they will ask someone else, but on the rare occasion that nobody wants to go, the boss will say 'Well, someone has to go, so decide it amongst yourselves'.


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## ajk (Oct 21, 2008)

idioteque said:


> My work (hourly paid) sometimes sends us home if it's not busy, without pay- they ask if you want to go, and you can decline and they will ask someone else, but on the rare occasion that nobody wants to go, the boss will say 'Well, someone has to go, so decide it amongst yourselves'.



Most pubs/restaurants I've worked in have done this, it's part of the business and there's always someone who appreciates the early night, however



> one winter it snowed so no-one came out to the store, so they made the majority of the staff clock off and sit in the staff room until it was busy enough for us to clock on again.



is not fucking on at all.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 21, 2008)

Amusingly when I worked at Asda we got told off if we stayed even a minute after clocking out time...


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## High Voltage (Oct 21, 2008)

Divisive Cotton said:


> I'm not aware of this being common - what sort of work are they doing and how many of them are there?



How many? Jeez don't know 100+ working shifts across 3 or 4 departments.

They are employed by us they are NOT agency workers.

Some are what I would class as skilled. These don't get sent home, infact are paid pretty damn well I've found out £30K+ with O/T is NOT uncommon.

Other departments they are bouncing around the semi-skilled level and it is these that, when the work dies off can be sent home.

I know what you mean about the Ts and Cs in the contracts BUT again, going back to my good old union days a contract with those in would NEVER have been allowed, let alone agreed to.

And do you know what? I'm a manager (still a member of a union, not that it would do me any good) and yet my colleague is "one of the bloody infantry" and he's far more anti-union than I am and I've been a manager for 20+ years and still look at it from the employees side as well.


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## High Voltage (Oct 21, 2008)

cesare said:


> . . . .There could also be a clause about 'short time working' and 'guarantee payments' but that's more usual in the manufacturing sector tbh. I can go into more detail about that if you want.



Well we're in manufacturing so PLEASE DO. This is not going to go anywhere, I'm just truly horrified 

Don't get me wrong, for me the firm is fantastic, I've got total confidence in my senior management team. My immediate manager is an absolute star.

My team are, by and large pretty damn good.

And let's be fair, I'm a fantastic manager for them.

Not true, but I really do care about my team and am always trying, just lacking a bit of focus at the moment.

So the company is a sound company, it's just this has absolutely gob smacked me and I can't see how this has come to pass.


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## catinthehat (Oct 21, 2008)

Nickle and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich (she looks at things like zero hours contracts associated crappy employer behaviour) details a big coffee chain in the US where you come in to work for the busy period say 730am - 930 then as the number of customers drop they take people off the shop floor - and off the wages untill the customer flow picks up - so employees are stood up/down all day.  The till system calculates customer turn over and flags up when someone should go off.  So you can end up working 2 hours on, half hour off, hour on etc. This is being done by global players not corner shops - and I suspect coming to a workplace near you shortly.


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## cesare (Oct 21, 2008)

High Voltage said:


> Well we're in manufacturing so PLEASE DO. This is not going to go anywhere, I'm just truly horrified
> 
> Don't get me wrong, for me the firm is fantastic, I've got total confidence in my senior management team. My immediate manager is an absolute star.
> 
> ...



You'll find everything you need to know here: http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/employment/employment-legislation/employment-guidance/page16319.html

But as I said, you should familiarise yourself with what's in the Ts and Cs first, because contract claims can arise out of short-time working even though there's a statutory provision made.


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## cesare (Oct 21, 2008)

catinthehat said:


> Nickle and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich (she looks at things like zero hours contracts associated crappy employer behaviour) details a big coffee chain in the US where you come in to work for the busy period say 730am - 930 then as the number of customers drop they take people off the shop floor - and off the wages untill the customer flow picks up - so employees are stood up/down all day.  The till system calculates customer turn over and flags up when someone should go off.  So you can end up working 2 hours on, half hour off, hour on etc. This is being done by global players not corner shops - and I suspect coming to a workplace near you shortly.



That's one of the reasons for the IWW/SOLFED action re Starbucks iirc.


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## High Voltage (Oct 21, 2008)

This CitH is EXACTLY what I was convinced WASN'T allowed to happen.

That's it Zero hours contracts, and what our shop floor guys have got IS NOT THIS but bloody hell!!!

THIS is what the bloody unions should be fighting against, NOT getting me a deal on a fucking plasma screen telly or low rate credit cards FFS (and yet, I've had BOTH of those offers in with my union rag, honestly it makes me embarassed of my own union, one I was a shop steward of years ago (well and FoC at any rate))


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## catinthehat (Oct 21, 2008)

Agree they should be fighting this - well not just unions everyone with an ounce of decency should be fighting it.  Trouble is the union is not some amorphos (sp?) thing but its the members at shop floor - from my experience as a rep the general apathy of ordinary members - who tend these days to see the union as a kind of insurance policy - translates into the red light for managment/employers to do what the hell they like.  When you have annual meetings attended by less than 10% of the workforce it sends a clear message.  Most of our members never play any part in the union, never come to meetings, dont vote, go along with things that damage other workers but then as soon as it hits them come over all "whats the union going to do about it" - you are the bloody union I think.  Add to that the careerism that infects full timers - not all but a lot and you have a recipe for all round worker shafting.


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## Belushi (Oct 22, 2008)

> Now. I've heard of this with dodgy fly-by-night companies And in the docks where people used to be taken on for hours at a time and then sent home, but that was in the dark ages.



Happens all the time (and worse) if you work for a gangmaster. IIRC the government brought in new regulations a couple of years ago but I doubt they've had much effect.


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## matrix_22 (Oct 22, 2008)

ajk said:


> Most pubs/restaurants I've worked in have done this, it's part of the business and there's always someone who appreciates the early night
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## _angel_ (Oct 22, 2008)

catinthehat said:


> Nickle and Dimed by Barbara Ehrenreich (she looks at things like zero hours contracts associated crappy employer behaviour) details a big coffee chain in the US where you come in to work for the busy period say 730am - 930 then as the number of customers drop they take people off the shop floor - and off the wages untill the customer flow picks up - so employees are stood up/down all day.  The till system calculates customer turn over and flags up when someone should go off.  So you can end up working 2 hours on, half hour off, hour on etc. This is being done by global players not corner shops - and I suspect coming to a workplace near you shortly.



That's shit. 

I've worked for commission only (not in this country) and even that is a fairer system.


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## Radar (Oct 23, 2008)

McDonalds used to do this back in the eighties. It wasn't mandatory however, so if the SPMH (Sales per man hour) was too low and management wanted people to go home you were well within your right to insist on working your scheduled shift.


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