# All New *All Singing/Dancing* London Bookgroup Welcomes New Members thread



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2005)

we're reading nana for our next meeting, which will be next thurs at a venue to be decided. if you want to join, please post on the thread and come along! you don't need permission from anyone to join!


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## Hollis (Aug 11, 2005)

My collected thoughts on Nana todate are provided below:

"Well I've started it and am enjoying both the 3rd person narrative and subtle interplay of the characters."

"I am also intrigued in Zola's attention to light in describing scenes. I wonder if this is a refection of what was happening in French painting at the time. It will"

"Well, so far my favourite character is that sleezy banker."

"I recommend perservering with Chapter two.. it gets better.. err, yes.."


"This book is great.  Zola is so subtle. You think nothings happening.. but then you realise its all happening. More episodic than linear."


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## LDR (Aug 11, 2005)

I need to start reading stuff again.  Count me in.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2005)

welcome aboard, ldr!


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## jms (Aug 11, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> My collected thoughts on Nana todate are provided below:
> 
> "Well I've started it and am enjoying both the 3rd person narrative and subtle interplay of the characters."
> 
> ...






			
				Peter Griffin said:
			
		

> Here's another thing.. The book can also be.. a hat.



.


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## Hollis (Aug 11, 2005)

Cheers!


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## Lysistrata (Aug 11, 2005)

Hmmmm, well, I've read one book by Zola and all I can say is:  "na na, na na na na, na na na na, na na na na naaaaaaaaa".

 L


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## zora (Aug 12, 2005)

This might be of interest, too, to possible newcomers:




			
				han said:
			
		

> so far, we've read:
> 
> 'Kitchen' by Banana Yoshimoto; 'The Shadow of the Sun - My African Life' by Ryszard Kapuscinski; 'The Little Chinese Seamstress' by Dai Sijie; 'Scepticism Inc' by Bo Fowler; 'Atonement' by Ian McEwan; 'The Famished Road' by Ben Okri; 'Boating for Beginners' by Jeanette Winterson; a bit of 'Jazz' by Toni Morrisson; 'Samarkand' by Amin Maalouf; 'A Fine Balance' by Rohinton Mistry, 'The Life of Pi' by by Yann Martel, 'White Noise' by Don Delillo, and 'A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius' by David Eggers and 'The Good Solidier Svejk' by Jaroslav Hasek, 'Nights at the Circus' by Angela Carter, 'Holes' by Louis Sacher, 'The Corrections' by Johnathen Franzen, 'Mother London' by Michael Moorcock, 'The Impressionist' by Hari Kunzru, 'The Man in the High Castle' by Philip K Dick and 'The God of Small Things' by Arundhati Roy, 'Stasiland' - by Anna Funder, 'Nostromo' by Joseph Conrad, 'Death and the Penguin' by Andrei Kurkov.....
> 
> and a few more recent ones which I've forgotten!!



Since then, there's been: *Fear and Loathing on the CampaignTrail '72* by Hunter S. Thompson, *The Moonstone* by Wilkie Collins, *The Automated Alice* by Jeff Noon,*Something something Ho Jeeves * by P,G.Wodehouse, *The Third Policeman* by Flann O'Brien, *The House Of The Spirits* by Isabel Allende, *Dispatches* by Michael Herr,* Granny Made Me An Anarchist* by Stuart Christie and  *Cloud Atlas* by David Mitchell


The next meeting, thursday 18.08., is apparently chez Citydreams et Onemonkey (a very fine venue indeed). BYO cheese and wine, PM the aforementioned for address details.


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## trashpony (Aug 12, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> This might be of interest, too, to possible newcomers:
> The next meeting, thursday 18.08., is apparently chez Citydreams et Onemonkey (a very fine venue indeed). BYO cheese and wine, PM the aforementioned for address details.



If I manage to leave my stupid office within the next week and get the book, I will come
 I have read loads of books but none on your list.


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## Crispy (Aug 12, 2005)

trashpony said:
			
		

> If I manage to leave my stupid office within the next week and get the book, I will come
> I have read loads of books but none on your list.



The book is online somewhere...


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## bluestreak (Aug 12, 2005)

i'd like to join in but i don't know if i've got the time for a month or so.  but i will partake eventually.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2005)

Oh shit, I don't think I can make it - maybe this means I can put the book down and read something else.......


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## LDR (Aug 13, 2005)

I'm not going to have time to buy nana and to read it by Thursday.

Keep me updated as to what the next book will be and I'll pop along to the next meeting having had time to read it.


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## Brainaddict (Aug 15, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Oh shit, I don't think I can make it - maybe this means I can put the book down and read something else.......


 What!  You're not gripped and thrilled by it!?! You're going to be in trouble with Hollis you are!


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## Orang Utan (Aug 15, 2005)

It's alright but I read it at university and I have a book about geology to read that looks thrilling.


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## Brainaddict (Aug 15, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> It's alright but I read it at university and I have a book about geology to read that looks thrilling.


 Tectonic plates move significantly faster than a Zola scene so I can't blame you for your choice...


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## zora (Aug 15, 2005)

Wait till you get to the wife bashing    

I made quite a good start on the book and was hopeful to actually finish it by thursday, but was too busy this weekend to do much reading, what with work and one thing and another.

Still, am over halfway through and look forward to thursday lots.


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## Lysistrata (Aug 15, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Tectonic plates move significantly faster than a Zola scene so I can't blame you for your choice...



My point exactly.


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## zora (Aug 15, 2005)

Are you still coming along for the wine and cheese though, Lysistrata?


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## Hollis (Aug 17, 2005)

Sorry, I can't make this now.

I will finish Nana though.. Honest.


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## Daff (Aug 17, 2005)

Does _Nana _ remind anyone else of Angela Carter's _Nights at the Circus_? (I think _Nights_ was done by the group a while ago.)
Maybe Carter was making some kind of link? Some of the scenes with Nana at the theatre seem similar. I'm probably reading too much into this!

See you tommorrow!


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## onemonkey (Aug 18, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> Wait till you get to the wife bashing


yep the whole thing doesn't really get going until about page 200.

the lesbianism is ok too..


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## onemonkey (Aug 18, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> Does _Nana _ remind anyone else of Angela Carter's _Nights at the Circus_? (I think _Nights_ was done by the group a while ago.)
> Maybe Carter was making some kind of link? Some of the scenes with Nana at the theatre seem similar. I'm probably reading too much into this!
> 
> See you tommorrow!


the thought hadn't even crossed my mind.. but i am sure you are right.. (and i also know which one i prefer  )

nonetheless, have a gold star >> *


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## Pieface (Aug 18, 2005)

I'm loving this book but my mate Jess has decided to come and visit me tonight so I won't be along - I'll wankered somewhere in Brixton instead. 
Have fun kids


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## Brainaddict (Aug 18, 2005)

Sometimes I question your commitment to this bookgroup Mrs Eye


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## Major Tom (Aug 18, 2005)

There's no way I'm reading Nana beyond chapter three. I can't stand it. 

But I tried, I ended up reading chapter three three times - and its just not going in. 

Therefore, I will pass on tonight's meeting and hope we do something more interesting next time.


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

Yeah.. could I suggest that books for the next 2 months are picked.. it makes it easier for those of us who find one a month abit much sometimes.


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## Major Tom (Aug 18, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Yeah.. could I suggest that books for the next 2 months are picked.. it makes it easier for those of us who find one a month abit much sometimes.



Good idea - I can start October's book tomorrow! 

To be honest I'm reading about three or four books at once at any one time, and find it very hard to wedge another one in, unless its unputdownable. Nana is unpickupable.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 18, 2005)

I put Nana on the shelf yesterday and found another copy I'd had for years - anyone want a spare?


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## Brainaddict (Aug 18, 2005)

I also read the first three chapters before it became unbearable Major TOm. I then skipped to the end and read bits of the last two. 

I'll be there tonight though.


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## Major Tom (Aug 18, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I also read the first three chapters before it became unbearable Major TOm. I then skipped to the end and read bits of the last two.



And was it worth it?


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## Brainaddict (Aug 18, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> And was it worth it?


 it didn't appear to be. nana ruins a few people and that seemed to be about it.


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I also read the first three chapters before it became unbearable Major TOm. I then skipped to the end and read bits of the last two.
> 
> I'll be there tonight though.



You see. young people. No attention span.


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## Major Tom (Aug 18, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> it didn't appear to be. nana ruins a few people and that seemed to be about it.



oh...

<walks off to bin A4 print-out of chapters 4 and 5 of Nana>


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## citydreams (Aug 18, 2005)

What about chapter 7 and The Golden Fly?  - The symbolic downfall?


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## onemonkey (Aug 18, 2005)

never mind if you've read the book or not.. much less if you liked it 

why not come along for free unicum.. and i am about to bake some brownies


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## Pieface (Aug 18, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> free unicum..



What the fuck is that???

I'm enjoying it Nana - I don't find the writing dense and over detailed at all - but you do wonder how much translations vary.   I like the picture he's putting together of Paris and the era it's set in - and I _would _ say it was painterly if that wasn't totally wanky.  So I'll just say it's evocative instead   

A shitload better than Cloud Atlas imo - he's developed a few characters along the way in this book for a start.


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> What the fuck is that???
> 
> I'm enjoying it Nana - I don't find the writing dense and over detailed at all - but you do wonder how much translations vary.
> 
> A shitload better than Cloud Atlas imo - he's developed a few characters along the way in this book for a start.



Hahaha to the first part - although I agree

Totally agree with the second.. Makes you realise what aload of pretentious WANK (  ) alot of modern writing is.. all stylistic shite.. can't write a proper book for toffee.

Shame I can't be there tonight.


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## Brainaddict (Aug 18, 2005)

You lot are making me feel like a lightweight. How can you not find the description dense and tedious and never-ending?


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> You lot are making me feel like a lightweight. How can you not find the description dense and tedious and never-ending?



Because its painterly innit.  Unlike dickens - who I can't stand, Zola builds up the tension, atmosphere..its like watching a damn good slow-moving game of test cricket.  And it has so much _depth_ compared to all this modern self-conscious clever rubbish.. (end of).

Don't worry, can't make it tonight.


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## Pieface (Aug 18, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> You lot are making me feel like a lightweight. How can you not find the description dense and tedious and never-ending?



I'll not deny it's never ending but it's a story centred around posing and observing and social manners so the descriptiveness fits imo, plus there is lots of torrid emotion that needs giving shape.....


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> plus there is lots of torrid emotion that needs giving shape.....



Spot the English Lit grad.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 18, 2005)

I think it's adequate but I'd rather read about coal miners, coal even.


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## Pieface (Aug 18, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Spot the English Lit grad.



Get to fuck baldy coot.

I wasn't the first person to introduce "painterly" to this thread


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## onemonkey (Aug 18, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Don't worry, can't make it tonight.


you could always teleconference in with your opinion again


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Get to fuck baldy coot.
> 
> I wasn't the first person to introduce "painterly" to this thread



Oh yes you were.   


'writing dense and over detailed'

'a story centred around'

'evocative'

All fantastic stuf..


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> you could always teleconference in with your opinion again



That's true... I do some mean tele-conferencing.


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

As a plea, can you please try to stop pickman's model selecting some totally wanky book tonight.

Many thanks.


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## Pieface (Aug 18, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Oh yes you were.



okay.

I meant the last thread.

You were the first person to _bring it up_!


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## onemonkey (Aug 18, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> What the fuck is that???


a special treat for those who actually turn up to the BG..

mind you, you are probably best off not knowing about it.. it's not nice 




			
				PieEye said:
			
		

> he's developed a few characters along the way in this book for a start.


ihave to disagree, i don't think any of the characters are developed they are all caricatures.. not one plausible "real person" amongst them or at least he never seems to develop expand upon "the psychology of the individual".. and only rarely paints a good picture of their emotions. 

or perhaps it's just that he is deliberately non judgemental or they are too much a product and to be understood in their own time and society?  but, i doubt it, writers like jane austen or george elliot or even dickens manage fine.

(damn.. was meant save all online comment until after tonight..)


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## Hollis (Aug 18, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> ihave to disagree, i don't think any of the characters are developed they are all caricatures.. not one plausible "real person" amongst them or at least he never seems to develop expand upon "the psychology of the individual".. and only rarely paints a good picture of their emotions.
> 
> or perhaps it's just that he is deliberately non judgemental or they are too much a product and to be understood in their own time and society?  but, i doubt it, writers like jane austen or george elliot or even dickens manage fine.



I'm afraid this sort of blanket dishing is going to require alot more flesh on it.. I demand specifics.


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## onemonkey (Aug 18, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I'm afraid this sort of blanket dishing is going to require alot more flesh on it.. I demand specifics.


available in herne hill tonight


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## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I'm afraid this sort of blanket dishing is going to require alot more flesh on it.. I demand specifics.


specifics?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2005)

Next month's book, by unanimous acclamation, is The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts by Louis De Bernieres.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2005)

although brainaddict says that unanimous bit is quite untrue. 

he says he would have veto'd it but he'd had too much kava to drink. apparently.

it was citydream's suggestion, btw.


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## Derian (Aug 18, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> Next month's book, by unanimous acclamation, is The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts by Louis De Bernieres.



I like that one. That would be an easier start .... if I can join?

Please?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> I like that one. That would be an easier start .... if I can join?
> 
> Please?


of course!


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## Derian (Aug 18, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> of course!



Thanks!    

Do I PM you for details/what to do?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> Thanks!
> 
> Do I PM you for details/what to do?


we're provisionally meeting at the ritzy, a couple of minutes' walk from brixton tube on 22 sept.

also, the tenative proposal for the october book is jim mcgregor's 'if nobody speaks of remarkable things' - though that may be revised.


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## Derian (Aug 18, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> we're provisionally meeting at the ritzy, a couple of minutes' walk from brixton tube on 22 sept.
> 
> also, the tenative proposal for the october book is jim mcgregor's 'if nobody speaks of remarkable things' - though that may be revised.



Cheers.. time?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> Cheers.. time?


7.30pm


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## Ryazan (Aug 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> My collected thoughts on Nana todate are provided below:
> 
> "Well I've started it and am enjoying both the 3rd person narrative and subtle interplay of the characters."
> 
> ...



Only ever read germinal.


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## Brainaddict (Aug 19, 2005)

At last night's bookgroup (which was very enjoyable by the way, despite lots of you losers not turning up) we were discussing the idea of having a 'book of year' as well as a book for each month. This would be a long book of the sort that couldn't be read in one month. Those who aren't interested in reading stupidly long books need not join in, but those of us who like something that takes some commitment and is too long to be read all at once can have this second book in the background that we'll all be reading. 
The year is to run between bookgroup anniversaries, and since we've just had one the book we set now will be the book for the next year.

The suggestion that emerged last night was Richard Burton's Anatomy of Melancholy, which is kind of pricey to buy at the moment but is available in various places online, such as here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10800

What do people think of the idea? Worth doing?


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## Brainaddict (Aug 19, 2005)

For those of you know nothing about it, here's amazon's synopsis of AoM:

"One of the major documents of modern European civilisation, Robert Burton's astounding compendium, a survey of melancholy in its myriad forms, has invited nothing but superlatives since its publication in the seventeenth century. Lewellyn Powys called it 'the greatest work of prose of the greatest period of English prosewriting', while the celebrated surgeon William Osler declared it the greatest of medical treatises. And Dr Johnson, Boswell reports, said it was the only book that he rose early in the morning to read with pleasure. In this surprisingly compact and elegant new edition, Burton's spectacular verbal labyrinth is sure to delight, instruct, and divert today's readers as much as it has those of the past four centuries. "


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## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> At last night's bookgroup (which was very enjoyable by the way, despite lots of you losers not turning up) we were discussing the idea of having a 'book of year' as well as a book for each month. This would be a long book of the sort that couldn't be read in one month. Those who aren't interested in reading stupidly long books need not join in, but those of us who like something that takes some commitment and is too long to be read all at once can have this second book in the background that we'll all be reading.
> The year is to run between bookgroup anniversaries, and since we've just had one the book we set now will be the book for the next year.
> 
> The suggestion that emerged last night was Richard Burton's Anatomy of Melancholy, which is kind of pricey to buy at the moment but is available in various places online, such as here:
> ...



I have no opinion on this at all, except that I won't be reading it.


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## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> also, the tenative proposal for the october book is jim mcgregor's 'if nobody speaks of remarkable things' - though that may be revised.



That book was fucking heartbreaking - I loved it.  Actually - I'd happily re-read it.

I can't be arsed with Louis de Bernieres so I'll sit that one out I think.


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## Brainaddict (Aug 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I have no opinion on this at all, except that I won't be reading it.


 Am I right in thinking that you wouldn't read the kind of book that requires months/years at all? zora said the same thing and I think other people will too, but that's fine. some people liked the idea though so i think it might be worth pursuing.


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## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

i'll read the book of the year.. i reckon the college library will have a copy.

are we agreed the bookgroup year runs from july to july? so that we ought to have read this by next summer's curry meeting?


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## citydreams (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> I can't be arsed with Louis de Bernieres so I'll sit that one out I think.



You're missing out there PieEye..   The War of Don's Nether Parts is a hilarious, farcical account of life within an imaginary South American country.  The characters are delightful and exude sexuality, humour and vigour.  The plot is extremely finely crafted. There are terrorists, wars, insurgiencies, politics and plentyful liasons that are stitched together in the finest threads of situational comedy.

Without doubt this book is one of the funniest I have ever read, knocking Tom Sharpe well off his perch.


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## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I demand specifics.


okay, as an example consider the theatre producer Bordenave, the banker Steiner or the journalist/playwright Fauchery.. they are all fairly major supporting characters but what do you know any of their characters and why they might do the things they do or act they way they act? I couldn't find any clues about what they were thinking.. and i got the impression that they and many (most / all??) of the other people in the book just did as required by Zola to keep the book moving..  but when you get to feel like that you aren't involved and the whole thing seems pointless taken as a whole.

undeniably he is quite good at set-pieces and ensemble scenes.. the dinner party at nana, the day at the races, etc, etc, and also does a good job of capturing some of the minutae of unfolding emotions.. nana's child-like glee on first arriving at her country home and Georges & Nana's 'love' scene that follows or  Muffat's rage/jealously/confusion/grief at his wife's infidelity.

but i can't bring myself to care very much about the book taken as a whole because it lacks plausibility, plot or point!


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## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> You're missing out there PieEye...



I just don't seem to be finishing any of the books in time at the moment so I'm going to sit out of BG for a bit I think and come back when I think I'll have a chance of completing them in time.  It frustrates me when I can't have a proper talk because I don't know the sodding ending.....I've been a useless member these past few months!


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## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

or another possiblity we discussed last night is that maybe the point is that he concentrates on the microcosm, that it is a painterly book in that it only wants to portray what it sees and not explain, judge or analyse that. certainly all the historical detail feels authentic..(which paris streets had what type of prostitutes, what the green room and dressing rooms smelled like in Parisian theatres etc.) 

and it is just one book in a massive sequence.. maybe knowing more about the others would give a better perspective

and to be fair, it seems a radical and scandalously frank exposé of some of the sexual mores of the era.


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## Brainaddict (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> I just don't seem to be finishing any of the books in time at the moment so I'm going to sit out of BG for a bit I think and come back when I think I'll have a chance of completing them in time.  It frustrates me when I can't have a proper talk because I don't know the sodding ending.....I've been a useless member these past few months!


 i think very few of us finished this month's pieeye but we still had a good discussion about it - we'll miss you if you don't come


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## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

Sorry onemonkey.. I can't read your post as I aint finished the book yet.  I have the last 2 months books to finish aswell..


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## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

sometimes i question your commitment, etc, etc


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## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> i think very few of us finished this month's pieeye but we still had a good discussion about it - we'll miss you if you don't come



Hollis wouldn't   

I'll Be Back - just not next month I don't reckon.


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## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Hollis wouldn't


yes well right now I am questioning his commitment to bookgroup 

and yours obviously


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## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

I question everything about Hollis.

Most of all his shiny pate.


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## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

Maybe we should all just agree to question each others commitment to the bookgroup at the moment... Although I'd agree choosing, at the first opportunity, a night on the piss with Jess does seem a particularly feeble excuse for non-attendance.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 19, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> You're missing out there PieEye..   The War of Don's Nether Parts is a hilarious, farcical account of life within an imaginary South American country.  The characters are delightful and exude sexuality, humour and vigour.  The plot is extremely finely crafted. There are terrorists, wars, insurgiencies, politics and plentyful liasons that are stitched together in the finest threads of situational comedy.
> 
> Without doubt this book is one of the funniest I have ever read, knocking Tom Sharpe well off his perch.



Yes, but it's so, well, obvious - can't we pick books that no one else is likely to have read? The last four books chosen (my suggestion included admittedly) I've read already and had not that much desire to read again.


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## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Maybe we should all just agree to question each others commitment to the bookgroup at the moment... Although I'd agree choosing, at the first opportunity, a night on the piss with Jess does seem a particularly feeble excuse for non-attendance.



ok - you can question mine.
I'll question Brainy's
Brainy has to query Orang Utan
OU gives the monkeyman hell
monkeyman can sic Zora
and Zora can hassle everyone else because she's german and efficient with it.

And I would turn down a night of unbridled lust with Simon Pegg for one on the piss with Jess.  

You lot are no contest.


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## zora (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> and Zora can hassle everyone else because she's german and efficient with it.



Sorry I'm not joining in this childish stuff - from my lofty perch of 25 out of 26 bookgroup attendences.


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## citydreams (Aug 19, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Yes, but it's so, well, obvious - can't we pick books that no one else is likely to have read?



No-one else had read it that turned up to the group.

All books are _obvious_ once you have read them.  

Did you enjoy it?  

To be more constructive, we thought that chosing two books at a time should allow some more choice within the group.  Perhaps we should chose one book online and one offline.


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## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> To be more constructive, we thought that chosing two books at a time should allow some more choice within the group.



Fucking great idea that.. Pure bloody genius.


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## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> And I would turn down a night of unbridled lust with Simon Pegg for one on the piss with Jess.
> 
> You lot are no contest.



Very glad to receive this clarification.  When are we meeting the lovely Jess?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Yes, but it's so, well, obvious - can't we pick books that no one else is likely to have read? The last four books chosen (my suggestion included admittedly) I've read already and had not that much desire to read again.


name a few books & let's see if anyone's read them.

also, it _does_ help if you turn up to the bookgroup so you have some small influence on the choice.


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## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

military history..


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## Orang Utan (Aug 19, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> No-one else had read it that turned up to the group.
> 
> All books are _obvious_ once you have read them.
> 
> ...


I enjoyed it, very well written with engaging characters, but a soupcon of cynical potboiling about it, like his others - you need to read the other books too.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> military history..


could do ernst junger's "storm of  steel", an antidote to the arsy pacificism espoused by the bloke who did "all quiet on the western front".


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 19, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> name a few books & let's see if anyone's read them.
> 
> also, it _does_ help if you turn up to the bookgroup so you have some small influence on the choice.



Sorry, didn't mean to come across as sour, though I'm sure it appeared that way. I suggested JG Farrell's Troubles earlier. Would also like to try out Dostoyevsky's The Idiot, David Madsen's Memoirs Of A Gnostic Dwarf, Nigel Slater's Toast.
And The Da Vinci Code!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Sorry, didn't mean to come across as sour, though I'm sure it appeared that way. I suggested JG Farrell's Troubles earlier. Would also like to try out Dostoyevsky's The Idiot, David Madsen's Memoirs Of A Gnostic Dwarf, Nigel Slater's Toast.
> And The Da Vinci Code!


i've read memoirs of a gnostick dwarf, so - good though it is - you can forget that as a bg book. and there is NO WAY i'm party to the group reading the da vinci wankery. also, i've long been under the impression  there is a permanent veto on dostoevskii.


----------



## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Very glad to receive this clarification.  When are we meeting the lovely Jess?



She may at BRockwell Park tomorrow if the sun is shining - she's been to Burma recently so you can quiz her on that.

But no funny business, Hollis


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Burma


Myanmar, surely?


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 19, 2005)

Is she single?


----------



## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

Crikey!! You gotta move fast round here.


----------



## Dubversion (Aug 19, 2005)

yeh, especially when it's two honeys like your goodselves

(  )


----------



## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Yes, but it's so, well, obvious - can't we pick books that no one else is likely to have read? The last four books chosen (my suggestion included admittedly) I've read already and had not that much desire to read again.


never mind that, if you're unable to attend then before getting arsy you have to tell us what you think of nana??


----------



## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Yes, but it's so, well, obvious - can't we pick books that no one else is likely to have read? The last four books chosen (my suggestion included admittedly) I've read already and had not that much desire to read again.


never mind that, if you're unable to attend then before getting arsy you have to tell us what you think of nana??


sometimes i question your commitment


----------



## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> Myanmar, surely?



yes, erm, is that it's nickname then?


----------



## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

Never mind about Nana, let's hear some more about Jess.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 19, 2005)

I already said what I thought of it, didn't I?
I thought it was.......



.....alright.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Never mind about Nana, let's hear some more about Jess.



Got any pics?


----------



## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

oh god.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> oh god.


See what The Golden Fly has done to us?


----------



## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I already said what I thought of it, didn't I?
> I thought it was.......
> 
> 
> ...


sometimes, I.....


----------



## Hollis (Aug 19, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Got any pics?



Let's not frighten the poor lass away.. Always nice to have abit more female interest on the thread.


----------



## onemonkey (Aug 19, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> sometimes, I.....


by the way, i won't be at next months BG, i have a prior.. er... commitment


----------



## Pieface (Aug 19, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> by the way, i won't be at next months BG, i have a prior.. er... commitment




You know, onemonk, I really do question....


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 19, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> You know, onemonk, I really do question....


 we all do


----------



## Lysistrata (Aug 19, 2005)

Ooooh, I fancy Don Emanuel's Nether Parts (missus) so I hope to be back with you next year.

I will ask the family sage if he has a copy of the melancholy book and if I don't have to buy it I'll give it a go.  

 L


----------



## LDR (Aug 22, 2005)

What's the book that the bookgroup are supposed to be reading this month?

I need to know so I can buy it and read it.


----------



## citydreams (Aug 22, 2005)

This month's book is "The War of Don Emmanuels Nether Parts" - Louis de Bernieres

Don't be put off by the fact that it's de Bernieres - it's brilliant.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 22, 2005)

The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts by Louis De Bernieres

by a not entirely unanimous decision.


----------



## citydreams (Aug 22, 2005)

I'm sure it will be unanimous by the time you've read it


----------



## onemonkey (Aug 22, 2005)

rarely is the bookgroup unanimous but even more rarely does pickman's _not_ veto one of citydream's choices.. so that made the difference.

and october may be "If nobody speaks of remarkable things" by jon mcgregor unless we think of something better.


----------



## LDR (Aug 22, 2005)

Right I'm going to order it off Amazon.

I'm surprised that Hollis hasn't got you all reading "Hammer of the Gods" by Davis.


----------



## Hollis (Aug 22, 2005)

Lordy No!!  We're dead highbrow on this 'ere book group thread.. 

As a matter of closure I did get a fleeting glance of the lovely Jess on Saturday..


----------



## Pieface (Aug 22, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Lordy No!!  We're dead highbrow on this 'ere book group thread..
> 
> As a matter of closure I did get a fleeting glance of the lovely Jess on Saturday..



did you??  We never really went into the festival - we sort of walked in, turned around and left.


----------



## Hollis (Aug 22, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> did you??  We never really went into the festival - we sort of walked in, turned around and left.



Oh yes I did.


----------



## Pieface (Aug 22, 2005)

*scared*


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 22, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Lordy No!!  We're dead highbrow on this 'ere book group thread..


Then why are we reading Louis De Bernieres?


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 22, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> *scared*


 you should have seen what I saw at bluestreak's party. you'd be a hell of a lot more scared...


----------



## Pieface (Aug 22, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> you should have seen what I saw at bluestreak's party. you'd be a hell of a lot more scared...



I heard...

He had quavers instead of monster munch!!


----------



## Hollis (Aug 22, 2005)

I should like to suggest this as a possible future read.







"Synopsis
The role of Bomber Command in World War II is still shrouded in mystery. This book provides a new and revisionary narrative of the campaign, serving as both a military history and an investigation into how modern perceptions of Bomber Command have come about. It shows why Bomber Command - in one of the largest and bloodiest campaigns of the war with 55,000 aircrew lost - has received so much attention yet remains a "lost sheep" among British wartime glories, and is still dogged by controversy. "

Any thoughts?


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 22, 2005)

Right, that's it.....


----------



## Pieface (Aug 22, 2005)

I'll get the bat, Orang, you distract him.....


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 22, 2005)

I propose that all future books are chosen by me and me alone, with one veto allowed per person per year.


----------



## Hollis (Aug 31, 2005)

Well I've progressed about 20 more pages with Nana .


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 31, 2005)

Hello BG people - as an almost total newbie to U75...  are you sure you want to invite me to the BG?  I mean, *I* know I'm not a complete nightmare, but...  do I need to go through some complicated vetting proceedure?


----------



## citydreams (Aug 31, 2005)

Vetting procedure (if one exists at all)

1. Do you mind discussing a book with someone who hasn't read it? (you know who are  )
2. Would you be offended by mixing alcohol with literature?
3. Have you met Hollis?


----------



## Major Tom (Aug 31, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Well I've progressed about 20 more pages with Nana .



Mine went into the recycling


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 31, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Vetting procedure (if one exists at all)
> 
> 1. Do you mind discussing a book with someone who hasn't read it? (you know who are  )
> 2. Would you be offended by mixing alcohol with literature?
> 3. Have you met Hollis?


Umm...
No
Definately not
No - should I be worried?


----------



## Hollis (Aug 31, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Vetting procedure (if one exists at all)
> 
> 1. Do you mind discussing a book with someone who hasn't read it? (you know who are  )
> 2. Would you be offended by mixing alcohol with literature?
> ...


----------



## innit (Aug 31, 2005)

Hollis will you please start your own Military Bookgroup and stop upsetting the nice people 

Is there a new theme to the book group?  Is it "Books innit has already read"?

Somebody gave me Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts as a present years ago but I can't bloody find it anywhere 

I don't want to buy another one


----------



## citydreams (Aug 31, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Umm...
> No
> Definately not
> No - should I be worried?



You know that character in Spaced that's always bringing guns to the party..  that's Hollis that is.

It would be nice to have you on board Spanglechick.  Someone needs to make new suggestions for books.  PieEye wants deep characters with unfortunate endings, Zora's into sex and shopping, Pickman's doesn't want to read anything I suggest, BrainAddict finds everything unoriginal and Dubversion keeps threatening to turn up.  Please help us!


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 31, 2005)

Well, hmm - I think I'm probably enough of an upstart as it is...  let me get my feet under the proverbial table - then I suspect you'll find another opinionated person to argue with...


----------



## Hollis (Aug 31, 2005)

citydreams is into the random 'obscure book' feature available on Amazon.. 

You want a good tale of depravity and decadence set in a 8th century Tibetan village - citydreams is your man..   

Please come along.. we're harmless really..


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 1, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Dubversion keeps threatening to turn up.



you needn't worry on that score..


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 1, 2005)

I've just ordered the book - can I confirm that we're meeting on 22 Sept even though 15 Sept is the third Thursday?

Ta.

 L


----------



## Hollis (Sep 2, 2005)

We'll have to ask the management.  Hopefully Pickman's Model should be on-line shortly.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 2, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> I've just ordered the book - can I confirm that we're meeting on 22 Sept even though 15 Sept is the third Thursday?
> 
> Ta.
> 
> L


 why's that then? not that I mind - just hadn't been told it before.


----------



## Major Tom (Sep 2, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> I've just ordered the book - can I confirm that we're meeting on 22 Sept even though 15 Sept is the third Thursday?
> 
> Ta.
> 
> L



Good - I get an extra week to read the book - which hasn;t even arrived yet.


----------



## onemonkey (Sep 2, 2005)

both dates are equally bad for me


----------



## zora (Sep 5, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Zora's into sex and shopping



I thought Nana was alright on both counts.   
Hope my copy found a good new home, I left it behind on a Sardinian campsite with a note for people to help themselves. 
Who would have thought that it would make such good beach reading though. I finished it in the first couple of days of my holidays.   (smug)

We could have a little comparative theme on prostitution in literature, no? After the whore-with-the-heart-of-gold in The House of the Spirits, now this near allegorical figure of depravity and destruction. Could make for a lively debate if we can lure some of the posters from general over...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> both dates are equally bad for me


see, we're not deliberately meeting at a bad time for you.


----------



## zora (Sep 5, 2005)

But when _are_ we meeting? Not that I mind, bookgroup dates are always good for me.   (smug again).


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> But when _are_ we meeting? Not that I mind, bookgroup dates are always good for me.   (smug again).


22/9, if people want. or 29/9?


----------



## onemonkey (Sep 6, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> 22/9, if people want. or 29/9?


i return to london on 29/9 so i would vote for that but i fear that is already booked for offline and in any case i haven't read Don Delillo's fundament


----------



## YojimboUK (Sep 6, 2005)

So it's Nether Parts this month, right? Or am I hopelessly out of date?


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 6, 2005)

yeah 29th is offline - with howard marks no less. so shall we go for 22nd? This must be the third thursday anyway - I think I missed the discussion where 29th was suggested - what was the rationale?


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 6, 2005)

YojimboUK said:
			
		

> So it's Nether Parts this month, right? Or am I hopelessly out of date?


 yeah, I guess it is don whoever's private parts


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 6, 2005)

I vote for 22 Sept (1 Sept was a Thursday so 22 Sept is the fourth Thursday but let's not be pedantic, let's meet in the third full week of the month as usual.)  The Don's nether parts arrived in the post today and I think I'm looking forward to it, although now I remember I have read Captain Corelli's Mandarin (or whatever it was called) and it was a bit too long and drawn out.  Hope this is not true of the nether parts but anyway, plenty of mileage for people who like bad puns.

 L

PS Hollis is a pussycat, I don't know what you're all on about.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 6, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> PS Hollis is a pussycat, I don't know what you're all on about.


I believe you. However I also believe that cats are all posessed by the devil, so...


----------



## zora (Sep 6, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> I vote for 22 Sept (1 Sept was a Thursday so 22 Sept is the fourth Thursday but let's not be pedantic, let's meet in the third full week of the month as usual.)    L



I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 6, 2005)

okay, 22nd it is. now we just have to decide where. weren't we talking about doing it at the ritzy next time?


----------



## Major Tom (Sep 7, 2005)

I've started reading "Nether Parts" - Now this is what I call a book!


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 9, 2005)

I wasn't sure at first whether it was irritating or amusing and whether it was a bit too much "aren't the foreigners funny" but I'm getting into it more now.


----------



## eme (Sep 9, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> I wasn't sure at first whether it was irritating or amusing and whether it was a bit too much "aren't the foreigners funny" but I'm getting into it more now.



innit - had to really _persuade_ myself to buy it in the bookshop after reading the first few pages - getting along better with it now..


----------



## eme (Sep 9, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> okay, 22nd it is. now we just have to decide where. weren't we talking about doing it at the ritzy next time?



that'd be cool..... (pizza and beer and books!)


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 10, 2005)

just started reading it and not at all fond of its cutely simplistic style, but will plough on for a while.


----------



## zora (Sep 10, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> that'd be cool..... (pizza and beer and books!)




pizza and beer and books and eme! Nice that you can make it!  

feel exactly the same about the book; still not sure if ' "aren't the foreigners funny" ' and 'its cutely simplistic style' could possibly be ironic?


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 10, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> pizza and beer and books and eme! Nice that you can make it!
> 
> feel exactly the same about the book; still not sure if ' "aren't the foreigners funny" ' and 'its cutely simplistic style' could possibly be ironic?


 sadly I don't think it is.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 10, 2005)

Yes, quirky, charming foreigner. Readable but nauseating. Which is why I'm not reading it again.


----------



## citydreams (Sep 12, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> feel exactly the same about the book; still not sure if ' "aren't the foreigners funny" ' and 'its cutely simplistic style' could possibly be ironic?



how could it not be ironic.. you've got a virginal female guerilla terrorist leader, a nympohmaniac gun-totting air head, hungry peasants only able to eat by trading paper bearing promises..  and a hero that's more interested in butterflies than leading a revolution

I guess it's back to reading boring tragedies next month then


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 12, 2005)

It's all a bit magic realism-lite though innit?


----------



## Hollis (Sep 12, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> how could it not be ironic.. you've got a virginal female guerilla terrorist leader, a nympohmaniac gun-totting air head, hungry peasants only able to eat by trading paper bearing promises..  and a hero that's more interested in butterflies than leading a revolution
> 
> I guess it's back to reading boring tragedies next month then




I'm making no effort at all to read this book.  I made an executive decision and thought "Fuck it."


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 12, 2005)

A wise decision, Hollis.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 12, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> It's all a bit magic realism-lite though innit?


 That sounds like a fair assessment from what I've read so far. Will read a bit more before I condemn it completely though


----------



## citydreams (Sep 12, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I'm making no effort at all to read this book.  I made an executive decision and thought "Fuck it."



don't all your executive decisions end this way though?


----------



## Hollis (Sep 12, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> don't all your executive decisions end this way though?



I like to think I've implemented some postive changes for the good in my current work environment.  However the circle for executive decision making appears to be contracting these days.


----------



## Daff (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm about halfway through at the moment. It's definately readable and written well etc. The thats bothering me though is the whole 'invented country in S. America' written by an Englishman thing. As some of you guys mentioned: the'aren't the foreigners funny' aspect. Turns out De Bernieres spent some time in Colombia: why not have some balls and actually set it there? And maybe use historical events (like J.G. Farrell or Rushdie). There's enough wars/dictators in S. American history for him to have chosen one instead of inventing one out of his touristic sterotypes. I know he might have got into trouble for magic realisming specific events, but it might have been a bit more honest, and would avoid making generalisations about the entire continent! I suppose it would be a bit different if De Bernieres was South American himself.

There's my rant of the day  


I found a reading guide on the book with 'starting points for discussion':

http://www.randomhouse.co.uk/offthepage/guide.htm?command=Search&db=/catalog/main.txt&eqisbndata=0749391308 

It's a bit geeky though.


----------



## citydreams (Sep 12, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> It's definately readable and written well .



that will do for me


----------



## Daff (Sep 12, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> that will do for me



Touche.

I'll have to make a long presentation to the group disecting De Bernieres' neo-colonial eurocentric grammer.


----------



## lucky_7 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hi - another newbie.

Would I be able to gain an invite to this interesting group of book readers?

Is Nether Parts really a stinker as some posts make out or does it have redeeming qualities?


----------



## zora (Sep 12, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> I'm about halfway through at the moment. It's definately readable and written well etc. The thats bothering me though is the whole 'invented country in S. America' written by an Englishman thing. As some of you guys mentioned: the'aren't the foreigners funny' aspect. Turns out De Bernieres spent some time in Colombia: why not have some balls and actually set it there? And maybe use historical events (like J.G. Farrell or Rushdie). There's enough wars/dictators in S. American history for him to have chosen one instead of inventing one out of his touristic sterotypes. I know he might have got into trouble for magic realisming specific events, but it might have been a bit more honest, and would avoid making generalisations about the entire continent! I suppose it would be a bit different if De Bernieres was South American himself.
> 
> There's my rant of the day
> 
> ...





Spot on. I don't find it an entirely unpleasant read myself, but do wonder what De Bernieres is playing at, for your well put reasons. 
In a way, I feel that the generalisations and simplifications and cutesy-yet-matter-of-fact-ness work to stress the absurdity of it all (i.e. human beings slaughtering each other in so many imaginative ways) yet it makes it a bit too laughable...

As for the figure of Don Emmanuel himself, the benign colonialist with the biggest balls of them all...


----------



## zora (Sep 12, 2005)

lucky_7 said:
			
		

> Hi - another newbie.
> 
> Would I be able to gain an invite to this interesting group of book readers?



Yes, everybody's welcome. (Hollis will be along in a moment though to explain the complicated vetting procedure to you.  ) 
We'll be meeting on Thurs 22nd in the bar of the Ritzy cinema, Brixton from 7, 7.30 onwards.



> Is Nether Parts really a stinker as some posts make out or does it have redeeming qualities?



As said above, it is quite readable and it does keep you on your toes trying to figure out if it's complete rubbish or not. Surely that's a good thing.


----------



## Major Tom (Sep 13, 2005)

It's definitely not rubbish. I found it readable at a time when i've got extreme amounts of stress at work, so it was great escapism. I liked the politics. The simple explanations of south american politics and culture. And lots of cats. 

And it made me laugh. 

Out loud. 

On the tube. 

anyway - finished it yesterday. See you on the 22nd.


----------



## citydreams (Sep 13, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> It's definitely not rubbish. I found it readable at a time when i've got extreme amounts of stress at work, so it was great escapism. I liked the politics. The simple explanations of south american politics and culture. And lots of cats.
> 
> And it made me laugh.
> 
> ...



See! Ya crinkly curmudgeons with your cutesy-critiques and ya coiffeured characters.   All you old bookgroupers need to dust off your shelves.


----------



## lucky_7 (Sep 13, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> It's definitely not rubbish. I found it readable at a time when i've got extreme amounts of stress at work, so it was great escapism. I liked the politics. The simple explanations of south american politics and culture. And lots of cats.
> 
> And it made me laugh.
> 
> ...



okay. thanks for the invite.  

i reading 'tender is the night' at the moment - the descriptions / language are really vivid. 

look forward to some laughter on the tube!


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 13, 2005)

I've managed to make it to seven chapters now, and though I've stopped suspecting it of outright malignance, it's still managing to annoy me in multiple ways. Prospects of making it to the end: not good.


----------



## JGWacky (Sep 17, 2005)

*Newbie*

I'd like to come - need to start reading again.  Hardly read at all now I am driving everywhere, so would be ideal opportunity to read for this group.
Wont make it to 22nd tho - not enough time to read whole book!


----------



## innit (Sep 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I'm making no effort at all to read this book.  I made an executive decision and thought "Fuck it."


Me too 

(although I have to confess to having read it already ages ago  can't find it anywhere and buggered if I'm paying for another one)

I think I might be in for pizza and beer at Ritzy anyway, though.


----------



## LDR (Sep 18, 2005)

I arrived back from Italy to find the book had been delivered.

I started reading it on Friday and am about halfway through.  I'm enjoying it but I'm easily pleased.   

I'll be there for Thursday.


----------



## eme (Sep 19, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> We'll be meeting on Thurs 22nd in the bar of the Ritzy cinema, Brixton from 7, 7.30 onwards.



oh arse - I thought it was the 29th   ... I'll be in spain this thurs...


----------



## zora (Sep 19, 2005)

arse indeed! I thought we'd have the pleasure of your company this month!

btw, the 29th is offline, now you really should know that  maybe we can have a little re-run of the bookgroup in a quiet corner then!


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 19, 2005)

I'm looking forward to meeting up as I really can't make my mind up about the book.  I totally agree with what Daff said.  Hopefully it will be a lively discussion and did someone say pizza?

 L


----------



## onemonkey (Sep 19, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> oh arse - I thought it was the 29th   ... I'll be in spain this thurs...


that is the logical progression from missing book group for spanish classes..


----------



## onemonkey (Sep 19, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> btw, the 29th is offline, now you really should know that  maybe we can have a little re-run of the bookgroup in a quiet corner then!


yay.. i should be back in the country in time for offline.. not that i'll have read the book


----------



## JGWacky (Sep 19, 2005)

erm - sorry folks - am new to all this.  what does offline mean exactly?


----------



## onemonkey (Sep 19, 2005)

http://urban75.org/offline/index.html


----------



## tastebud (Sep 19, 2005)

JGWacky said:
			
		

> erm - sorry folks - am new to all this.  what does offline mean exactly?


----------



## JGWacky (Sep 19, 2005)

*Thankyou*




			
				onemonkey said:
			
		

> http://urban75.org/offline/index.html


----------



## Hollis (Sep 20, 2005)

Hmm.. I bought the book last night, and am really enjoying it.


----------



## zora (Sep 21, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> I'm looking forward to meeting up as I really can't make my mind up about the book.  I totally agree with what Daff said.  Hopefully it will be a lively discussion and did someone say pizza?
> 
> L



Yes and yes! Definitely pizza and most likely lively discussion: I hate to admit it  but the book has turned out to be an excellent bookgroup choice whatever you think of the book itself. Whenever I seem to get used to it or even like it, something slightly worrying comes up (like the discovery that there's actually a whole trilogy of politically critical south american novels in 'flippant' style.  )


----------



## han (Sep 21, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> oh arse - I thought it was the 29th



Me too! 

Deffo upferrit next time tho'!


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 21, 2005)

bugger, may have to miss this as I am now contracted to get drunk with someone that night


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 21, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> Me too!
> 
> Deffo upferrit next time tho'!



I have a strange deja vu feeling.....

 L


----------



## Hollis (Sep 21, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> bugger, may have to miss this as I am now contracted to get drunk with someone that night



At this rate we might as well relocate to Wood Green the "spritual home" of the book group.

Anyway, your prescence and input will be greatly missed.  Who you getting pissed with? We'd like some specifics.


----------



## innit (Sep 21, 2005)

I'm not coming any more, because I'm skint and my dad is going to buy me dinner 

So you might as well have it in Wood Green.

Have fun everyone!


----------



## Hollis (Sep 21, 2005)

I dunno.. book group June 2002 - August 2005. RIP.


----------



## han (Sep 21, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> I have a strange deja vu feeling.....
> 
> L



OI!

I know, I know   

See you when I see you. That better?



(looking forward to the next time, whenever it is!!!)


----------



## han (Sep 21, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I dunno.. book group June 2002 - August 2005. RIP.



don't say that!

Some 'old blood' is on the cusp of returning! 

Sounds like new blood is upferrit too!


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 21, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> don't say that!
> 
> Some 'old blood' is on the cusp of returning!
> 
> Sounds like new blood is upferrit too!


Definately up for it - although not if i've got to haul arse to wood bleedin green.  Too late to shift it now though, right?


----------



## Derian (Sep 21, 2005)

I think I can manage to find the Ritzy. Never been to Wood Green ... no, please not, not for my first time   

How do new people recognise you?


----------



## Hollis (Sep 22, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Definately up for it - although not if i've got to haul arse to wood bleedin green.  Too late to shift it now though, right?



NO. Don't worry. I'll just haul my arse all the way down to dull as fuck Brixton..


----------



## Daff (Sep 22, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> Yes and yes! Definitely pizza and most likely lively discussion: I hate to admit it  but the book has turned out to be an excellent bookgroup choice whatever you think of the book itself. Whenever I seem to get used to it or even like it, something slightly worrying comes up (like the discovery that there's actually a whole trilogy of politically critical south american novels in 'flippant' style.  )




Sorry guys, I can’t make it tonight as I’m going up to Wales today. Hopefully will be at offline next week though!

Here's my final opinion:

I finished the book yesterday. I agree about it as a good book group choice –simply for the sake of violent disagreements! I think the thing that annoyed me most was the ‘flippant’ waffley style –nasty torture scenes which lacked emotion. Also the easy good vs evil, ugly baddies getting what they deserve, structure is a bit predictable, and unlikely!
The there is the pages of boring patronising ethnography (e.g. chapter 11, ‘Aurelio’s Education amongst the Navantes’.) Worrying that he thinks he can try to sum up a community simply for Aurelio’s character development!

So I hated it. Still, maybe next month I’ll be passionately defending the book.  

Daf


----------



## citydreams (Sep 22, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> So I hated it.



one less xmas card to send this year


----------



## citydreams (Sep 22, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> Worrying that he thinks he can try to sum up a community simply for Aurelio’s character development!



I think you might have taken the book a tad too seriously.  Seemed to me Bernieres was having fun writing this.  You can't deny that it is stuffed full of good humour, can you?


----------



## Daff (Sep 22, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I think you might have taken the book a tad too seriously.  Seemed to me Bernieres was having fun writing this.  You can't deny that it is stuffed full of good humour, can you?



Well maybe. I think I kept expecting him to bring the different parts together to make a more serious point. Maybe it's just not my type of book.

I admit that I did have the odd chuckle though.


----------



## innit (Sep 22, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I dunno.. book group June 2002 - August 2005. RIP.


Cheer up Hollis!

Wood Green isn't _that_ bad   

Thinking about it I might come along for a bit as dad will probably need to get off early for his train.  So I'll have a think this afternoon about some suggestions for next month


----------



## Hollis (Sep 22, 2005)

Next months book group is being held in Wood Green.


----------



## citydreams (Sep 22, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Next months book group is being held in Wood Green.



that's not very fair Hollis.  Some peeps have to come from Croydon.

can you not carry a picture of the shopping centre with you and we'll put it on the table?


----------



## LDR (Sep 22, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Hmm.. I bought the book last night, and am really enjoying it.


I got bored with it and won't have finished it by tonight.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 22, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> that's not very fair Hollis.  Some peeps have to come from Croydon.




Well I'm sure a compromise can be reached  - it would be a terrible tragedy if the book group were to get sucked into the Brixton milieux..


----------



## zora (Sep 22, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> How do new people recognise you?



Just think what the urban75 intelligentsia may look like, then think again. 

There'll probably be a few copies of the book lying around on the table by which to recognise us (I won't have one though - I only borrowed it; that's borrowing as in giving back after reading it not in hanging on to it until the revolution.)


----------



## zora (Sep 22, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> OI!
> 
> I know, I know
> 
> ...



We live in hope until the christmas curry!


----------



## Major Tom (Sep 22, 2005)

It looks like I can actually make the meeting tonight. And I've read the book too.


----------



## citydreams (Sep 22, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> that's borrowing as in giving back after reading it not in hanging on to it until the revolution



I told you.. I really do intend to read The Corrections


----------



## citydreams (Sep 22, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> How do new people recognise you?



We should be easy to find in the Ritzy.  Not many people manage to walk past without being set upon by these literary savages.  You should have seen what happened to the last person carrying a Dan Brown book....


----------



## onemonkey (Sep 22, 2005)

have fun tonight peeps.. for the first time in a month i am sad i am not in London


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 22, 2005)

When I first joined the book group we met in Brixton - but moved because it was too noisy in the pub and not enough seats.  If anyone can suggest a venue as splendid and accommodating as the Festival Hall I'm sure we'd...er...consider it.

 L


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> We should be easy to find in the Ritzy.  Not many people manage to walk past without being set upon by these literary savages.  You should have seen what happened to the last person carrying a Dan Brown book....


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 22, 2005)

Yay!

I wented to Book Group and met some people and none of them were mean to me and it wasn't all an elaborate hoax designed to upset and confuse newbies.

Hurrah!


----------



## Derian (Sep 22, 2005)

I wented as well   

All New *Singing/Dancing* London Bookgroup welcomed new members .... they do exactly what they say on the tin.

Good to meet those there, enjoyed that


----------



## Derian (Sep 22, 2005)

Does anyone have any thoughts on 'The Last Kabbalist Of Lisbon' as a book in waiting for a future month?


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

Glad the "newbies" enjoyed it (    ) - nice to meet you. 

Anyway in summary the negative view point was  - exceptionally shallow characters, no charcter development, a contrived plot, no real connection between the author and his subject, lacking any "intellectual" clout. i.e. "it was shit".

The positive viewpoint - err, funny and 'a good read'.

Anyway I like it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 23, 2005)

Has a new book been chosen?


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

Err.. I dunno.   

I think it was either something by Graeme Greene, Iris Murdoch or that The last Kabbalist book.

We want something which demonstrates good charcter development.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 23, 2005)

I want to read Italo Calvino's Cosmicomics but I'm guessing no-one else will


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 23, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I want to read Italo Calvino's Cosmicomics but I'm guessing no-one else will


 Thou hast guessed correctly, knave.


----------



## Major Tom (Sep 23, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I want to read Italo Calvino's Cosmicomics but I'm guessing no-one else will



astonishing insight.


----------



## Derian (Sep 23, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Err.. I dunno.
> 
> I think it was either something by Graeme Greene, Iris Murdoch or that The last Kabbalist book.
> 
> We want something which demonstrates good charcter development.



I believe it was Graeme Greene's 'Heart Of The Matter'. 

The Last Kabbalist one was just my suggestion for one in the future ...


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 23, 2005)

I've never read Greene's so would be up for that - is that the one set in Haiti?
Although I'm sure I heard Brainaddict slamming Greene in the pub t'other day or was it someone else?


----------



## LDR (Sep 23, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I've never read Greene's so would be up for that


Me too.  

Sorry I didn't make it last night but Stobart got me pissed.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

Its set in West Africa.. i've read it.. its excellent.

Does Brainaddict like any books?


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 23, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I've never read Greene's so would be up for that - is that the one set in Haiti?
> Although I'm sure I heard Brainaddict slamming Greene in the pub t'other day or was it someone else?


 yeah, probably me. graham greene is the only author I can think of whose books make better films than books.

I wouldn't veto it though, because I like being popular 

In answer to your question Hollis. Yes, large numbers of them. I just have something called - and I realise you won't be familiar with this - taste


----------



## innit (Sep 23, 2005)

...Brainaddict did I see you wafting mysteriously past me into Brixton Station at about 8 o clock last night?

Either I did or you have a doppelganger.

I would be ok with Graham Greene next month


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 23, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> ...Brainaddict did I see you wafting mysteriously past me into Brixton Station at about 8 o clock last night?
> 
> Either I did or you have a doppelganger.
> 
> I would be ok with Graham Greene next month


 Yes, that would have been me. Wasn't aware that I wafted though


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> In answer to your question Hollis. Yes, large numbers of them. I just have something called - and I realise you won't be familiar with this - taste




The matter was raised by _someone else_ last night.


----------



## innit (Sep 23, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Yes, that would have been me. Wasn't aware that I wafted though


It was definitely a waft


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> yeah, probably me. graham greene is the only author I can think of whose books make better films than books.



Utter, utter rubbish!!


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 23, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> The matter was raised by _someone else_ last night.


 I'm glad my reading tastes have become a matter of general interest to people . If other people are bemused by my dislike for many of the bookgroup choices, I am equally bemused by the bookgroup's aversion to a lot of the, FWOABW (and I suspect I'm bringing all sorts of mockery down on my head by using this term), 'counter-cultural' literature that I happen to like. Not that my taste is limited to that, just that it's a good example of the ongoing (and entertaining) clash of tastes between me and all the wrong people in the group 

Mind you, we managed an HST, who is one of my favourite authors, so I guess I shouldn't complain too much.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

What does FWOABW mean??


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 23, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> What does FWOABW mean??


 for want of a better word


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

Oh I dunno.. what d'you mean by 'counter-cultural' anyway  - weren't Graham Greene/Evelyn Waugh quite subversive in their own way.. isn't it often just an excuse for crap second rate books to get published?


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 23, 2005)

Heart of the Matter it is, then.  Where are we meeting?  Wood Green was mentioned......

Counterculture - well, I guess it depends which culture you're countering, doesn't it?

I had a good evening and it was nice to meet Derrian and Spanglechick.

 L


----------



## Hollis (Sep 23, 2005)

Yep.. 'The Heart of the Matter' it is, and Brainy gets a full month to explain himself..   

We could meet at mine in Wood Green, although if anyone knows a good central London venue maybe we should go with that... It couldn't get much worse than the Ritzy with a jazz/prog rock band tuning up in the background.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 27, 2005)

I've just had another thought on 'Don Emanuell's Nether Parts' - does it remind anyone of Catch 22 abit??


----------



## han (Sep 27, 2005)

LD Rudeboy said:
			
		

> Me too.
> 
> Sorry I didn't make it last night but Stobart got me pissed.



Great start, matie!


----------



## Major Tom (Sep 27, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I've just had another thought on 'Don Emanuell's Nether Parts' - does it remind anyone of Catch 22 abit??



Not me - I thought it was more like Tom Sharpe


----------



## eme (Sep 27, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I've just had another thought on 'Don Emanuell's Nether Parts' - does it remind anyone of Catch 22 abit??



yes! haven't finished it but intend too....


----------



## Hollis (Sep 27, 2005)

I don't get why the bookgroup gave this such a hard time! They're weird.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2005)

No, they just have standards


----------



## Hollis (Sep 27, 2005)

Hark!!    Seems a perfectly good read to me.. they ain't convinced me otherwise.


----------



## Daff (Sep 27, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I want to read Italo Calvino's Cosmicomics but I'm guessing no-one else will



_Cosmicosmics_ is the business!
It's not quite up there with his _If on a Winter's Night a Traveller_, but then not much is.

I'm happy enough with Graham Green though (he was banned by the Vatican for a while, too). There was a suggestion ages ago to do some of Jorge Louis Borges' short stories -an idea for next month or so? He's relatively inoffensive, though creates some fantastically strange worlds in his stories.


----------



## Pieface (Sep 28, 2005)

Have you guys decided what you're reading yet?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Have you guys decided what you're reading yet?


Yes. Pay attention!


----------



## Hollis (Sep 28, 2005)

Graham Greene "The Heart of the Matter"


----------



## eme (Sep 28, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> It's not quite up there with his _If on a Winter's Night a Traveller_



agh -  I couldn't stand this - gave up after realising how each and every chapter would end... Funnily enough I recognised a similar construction in Cloud Atlas when we started that, but found it much more engaging...

PieEye - think it's Graeme Greene's 'Heart Of The Matter'.

ps are we meeting the 20th or 27th oct.... I am putting it in my diary so I won't miss it this time!!   was the pizza good btw?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> was the pizza good btw?


not as good as i'd expected.


----------



## Pieface (Sep 28, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Yes. Pay attention!



I don't have time for your frippery.

I need hard, cold facts - here! And now!

Thank you Eme.  

(and *cough* Hollis.....(  ))


----------



## onemonkey (Sep 28, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Graham Greene "The Heart of the Matter"


an interesting choice.. i hope those moaning about our middle brow waterstones bestseller selection policy are assuaged somewhat.

and what about brainaddict.. he hates everything?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> an interesting choice.. i hope those moaning about our middle brow waterstones bestseller selection policy are assuaged somewhat.
> 
> and what about brainaddict.. he hates everything?


yeh, i think we can safely pre-empt his assessment by assuming he'll say it's shit.


----------



## Lysistrata (Sep 28, 2005)

Oh dear, just noticed I'll be away on the 20th and 27th October - I'll read the book anyway because I like Graham Greene and don't know this one.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 28, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> Oh dear, just noticed I'll be away on the 20th and 27th October - I'll read the book anyway because I like Graham Greene and don't know this one.


oh, that's a shame.  

Any votes for which of the two dates we are meeting?

(we can probably leave the contentious "where" decision until later...    )


----------



## Pieface (Sep 28, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> and what about brainaddict.. he hates everything?



Just treat him like an unruly teen.  He's our Kevin he is.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 28, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Just treat him like an unruly teen.  He's our Kevin he is.


 

You don't *understand*, you're all just *so* sad. *GOD* why can't we choose a decent book for a change?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> You don't *understand*, you're all just *so* sad. *GOD* why can't we choose a decent book for a change?




i never realised how apt that kevin bit was!


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> You don't *understand*, you're all just *so* sad. *GOD* why can't we choose a decent book for a change?



It's just not fair is it?


----------



## Pieface (Sep 28, 2005)

I bet he never _asked _ to be born.


----------



## JGWacky (Sep 28, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> oh, that's a shame.
> 
> Any votes for which of the two dates we are meeting?
> 
> (we can probably leave the contentious "where" decision until later...    )


I've just bought the book in readiness for your next meet - can i vote for 27th please (even though I've not been to one before?)


----------



## Hollis (Sep 29, 2005)

I believe it is traditional to stick to the 3rd Thursday in the month - i.e. the 20th in this case.


----------



## innit (Sep 29, 2005)

yep, also 27th will probably be offline so 20th is better for book group.

I'd better buy the book!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> I bet he never _asked _ to be born.


what, like jesus?


----------



## JGWacky (Sep 29, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> yep, also 27th will probably be offline so 20th is better for book group.
> 
> I'd better buy the book!


Oh bums - cant make the 20th -and I bought the book last night too!  Never mind - will read anyway.  Maybe see people at the next one then!


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 30, 2005)

Nice to meet Daff and Brainaddict tonight...  there's more people in this bookgroup than I had imagined...


----------



## Daff (Sep 30, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Nice to meet Daff and Brainaddict tonight...


Yes, it was cool to meet you. Offline was great last night!




			
				spanglechick said:
			
		

> there's more people in this bookgroup than I had imagined...


Actually turning up or reading the book is, of course, secondary to book group membership!


----------



## han (Oct 10, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> Actually turning up or reading the book is, of course, secondary to book group membership!



Indeed!


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 11, 2005)

i've started reading the book but haven't read the thread..

where are we meeting?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 11, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> i've started reading the book but haven't read the thread..
> 
> where are we meeting?


really good question.  
Citydreams had a suggestion...
<cranes neck looking for citydreams around the boards...>


----------



## citydreams (Oct 11, 2005)

...yeah, but I can't see Hollis wanting to go as far as Croydon


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 11, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> ...yeah, but I can't see Hollis wanting to go as far as Croydon


that wasn't your suggestion   - and it certainly wouldn't be mine - besides, my flat is too small for all but the most intimate of bookgroup meetings  , and my flat is the only haven of loveliness in the entire borough...


----------



## citydreams (Oct 11, 2005)

hmmm... well, we could use my flat if onemonkey has tidied away all his baby toys


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 11, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> hmmm... well, we could use my flat if onemonkey has tidied away all his baby toys


... and that's the suggestion I was on about (I didn't hallucinate you saying that last week, I knew it...)  .  I guess the northerners will object tho...


----------



## zora (Oct 11, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> ... and that's the suggestion I was on about (I didn't hallucinate you saying that last week, I knew it...)  .  I guess the northerners will object tho...



You really like that trendy bachelor's pad, don't you.  And they're both fantastic cooks as well!

The 'Nana' meet up there was lovely - sooo much yummy food and 'interesting' drinks, plus special brownies and special chocolate mousse. *slurp* I'd be well up for meeting there again if Onemonkey and Citydreams will have us.

But Chez Hollis would be great, too - and one north london meet up in over 3 years might not be too much to ask?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 11, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> You really like that trendy bachelor's pad, don't you.  And they're both fantastic cooks as well!
> 
> The 'Nana' meet up there was lovely - sooo much yummy food and 'interesting' drinks, plus special brownies and special chocolate mousse. *slurp* I'd be well up for meeting there again if Onemonkey and Citydreams will have us.
> 
> But Chez Hollis would be great, too - and one north london meet up in over 3 years might not be too much to ask?


as you're very well aware, I can barely remember anything about the batchelor pad - except that I was impressed - but I have no real recollection of why...  how does Chez Hollis measure up then?


----------



## zora (Oct 11, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> how does Chez Hollis measure up then?



It's got a LOT of character!


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 12, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> It's got a LOT of character!


well, it _is_ chez HOLLIS 

but chez citydream suits me too


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 15, 2005)

So what's the plan droogs? I have to admit I haven't even started reading that repressed, oppressive, overrated Englishman with the broom up his arse yet. I'm keeping an open mind though you'll be pleased to know


----------



## zora (Oct 15, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> So what's the plan droogs? I have to admit I haven't even started reading that repressed, oppressive, overrated Englishman with the broom up his arse yet. I'm keeping an open mind though you'll be pleased to know



My sentiment exactly - I wasn't at all impressed with The End of the Affair which I read years ago. And I thought maybe I just didn't like it because of the banging on about the catholic guilt complex- now I hear that's what all his books and he himself is all about. I've got enough repression and guilt issues of my own and reading about GG's I found neither beneficial nor interesting!

In keeping with the open mind thing though I will crack on with The Heart of the Matter as soon as I've finished the very *excellent* The Plot against America by Philip Roth which I'm currently reading.


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 16, 2005)

has anybody actually read it?

(i'm 40 pages in but doubt i'll get much further by thurs)


----------



## Derian (Oct 16, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> has anybody actually read it?
> 
> (i'm 40 pages in but doubt i'll get much further by thurs)



Yes, I have. Can't say it was one of his best though, imo. Although my copy has an introduction by James Wood first - maybe I was influenced by that, but I hope not


----------



## Hollis (Oct 17, 2005)

This is going to happen at citydreams 'pad' now.


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 17, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> has anybody actually read it?
> 
> (i'm 40 pages in but doubt i'll get much further by thurs)



still haven't bought it. 

Getting a bit late now...


----------



## innit (Oct 17, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> has anybody actually read it?
> 
> (i'm 40 pages in but doubt i'll get much further by thurs)


I'm on page 37, finding it ok so far.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 17, 2005)

The simple answer is to stop whining and start reading.  I'm on page 18, but still optomistic.

I've read it before and its one of the greatest books ever written..(IMVHO) ignore brainy and such like.


----------



## Dubversion (Oct 17, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> how does Chez Hollis measure up then?


----------



## JGWacky (Oct 17, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> I'm on page 37, finding it ok so far.


im on page 35 and am determined to finish it.  Cant make it on thursday anyway, which is just as well cos would never finish it by then!  Finding it a bit dark and depressing at this stage...


----------



## Daff (Oct 18, 2005)

I’m ¾ of the way through Heart now. It didn’t grab me at first, but I’m really liking it now. I agree Zora –he does overdo the whole Catholic guilt thing. I’ve only otherwise read The Power and the Glory by him, and that’s pretty much exclusively Catholic guilt/sainthood/damnation etc! I’m finding it relatively tame though –I think because the last two books I read were by Irvine Welsh and Bret Eastern Ellis. Considering Scobie is thinking about damnation and sin, I feel it seems to be lacking graphic sex and violence!

Anyway, I should have it finished by Thursday, and should be able to make it to Book Group this time!


----------



## innit (Oct 18, 2005)

I'm on page 117, check me out 

In fact at this rate I might even finish it!


----------



## Hollis (Oct 18, 2005)

I disagree with all this 'overdoing it' business.  His guilt about his relationship with his wife's one of the central 'themes' of the book. Of course he's going to bang on about it abit.  All in all nicely well-balanced, well-paced, supurb characters etc. etc. blah blah blah.


----------



## eme (Oct 18, 2005)

couldn't find it for ages so reading Monsignor Quixote instead... (that counts right? - it's the same author! plus I'm enjoying it...) then found a copy... haven't started it (but will cos it's BG innit and it must be doing me some good, all this reading!, and guess what?... can't make thursday - plus ca change...   but don't kick me out! - love you all really...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2005)

it's been a busy month, what with rewriting a 50,000 word book and deciphering a seventeenth century manuscript - sadly not a treasure map, but a poem by vavasor powell, and being forced to read detective fiction, not to mention writing a biography of john lilburne.

anyway, the long and the short of it is that i haven't read the book, there is no chance of me reading the book, and i think i'll give this month's gathering a miss.

normal service will be resum'd next month, and i'd like to take this opportunity to pre-emptively veto anything citydreams proposes.  

not really!


----------



## Daff (Oct 18, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I disagree with all this 'overdoing it' business.  His guilt about his relationship with his wife's one of the central 'themes' of the book. Of course he's going to bang on about it abit.  All in all nicely well-balanced, well-paced, supurb characters etc. etc. blah blah blah.



Agreed. 'overdo' is the wrong word. I suppose it's his main interest/obsession, therefore a major theme throughout the book, and, I suppose, many of his books. The 'damnation' aspect of _Heart_ reminds me a bit of Lowry's _Under the Volcano_.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 18, 2005)

Yes - it'd be nice if we could maybe think of a framework for looking at this one..  so taking my way back to O level English Lit, I suggest the following.

Characters

Scobie
Wilson
Mrs Scobie
Yusef
Harris



Plot/Narrative

Err..

Themes


Context..

Maybe somebody else can suggest some fancy stuff to think about.. Spanglechick?  I don't want ANYONE turning up just saying 'it was shit'...okay?


----------



## zora (Oct 19, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> can't make thursday - plus ca change...



What, are you doing french lessons now?   

I'm on page 7 btw


----------



## Pieface (Oct 19, 2005)

I can't really remember what you're reading and so haven't even looked at it  

_But_ - if it's at monkeydream's house then it would be rude not to show up for a bit really....


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Maybe somebody else can suggest some fancy stuff to think about.. Spanglechick?  I don't want ANYONE turning up just saying 'it was shit'...okay?


Hmm - I think maybe we might need to start with a precis for the people who haven't read it...  

Anyway, last thing I want to do is run an english lesson on it.


----------



## innit (Oct 19, 2005)

Framework 

Maybe it's a good idea which would stretch out the discussion on the book beyond the usual 5 minutes... but it seems a bit _organised_!

Anyway, I have carefully prepared many fascinating thoughts to share with you all.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 19, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> Framework
> 
> Maybe it's a good idea which would stretch out the discussion on the book beyond the usual 5 minutes... but it seems a bit _organised_!
> 
> Anyway, I have carefully prepared many fascinating thoughts to share with you all.



Excellent!! I didn't realise you actually attended the meetings.   

I shall bring some cheese..


----------



## innit (Oct 19, 2005)

Cheeky 

Cheese doesn't seem very in keeping.  I shall bring some gin as a themed tipple, and possibly some quinine.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2005)

although greene disliked being considered merely a catholic novelist, his religion shines through in some of his books, notably brighton rock. has anyone who's read this month's book noticed any allusions to god bothery?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 19, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> although greene disliked being considered merely a catholic novelist, his religion shines through in some of his books, notably brighton rock. has anyone who's read this month's book noticed any allusions to god bothery?



Yes - but I don't think you need to be a Catholic to get something out of it..


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Yes - but I don't think you need to be a Catholic to get something out of it..


what have you got out of it?

is it another painterly book?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> although greene disliked being considered merely a catholic novelist, his religion shines through in some of his books, notably brighton rock. has anyone who's read this month's book noticed any allusions to god bothery?


well yes, but in the context of the story and characters - I'm completely atheist an it just seemed to fit the charcter to me, rather than be a book about catholic guilt per se...


----------



## Derian (Oct 19, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> although greene disliked being considered merely a catholic novelist, his religion shines through in some of his books, notably brighton rock. has anyone who's read this month's book noticed any allusions to god bothery?



Yes, as Hollis said. I also agree with Hollis that you can get something out of it. However I found the ending unsatisfactory (close your eyes viewers who haven't finished it yet) - not the suicide per se, but the paradox of that in a catholic context. The earlier suicide was reasoned out/absolved (almost on God's behalf) by Scobie on the grounds of youth. There seemed to be no such reasoning developing for himself in terms of his own suicide and mortal sin. I thought the book seemed to have been finished in a hurry - well let's all leave it up to God then, the End. I liked the Yusef character but I found Scobie irritating, ineffectual and arrogant in an 'ever so 'umble' kind of way.


----------



## Derian (Oct 19, 2005)

By the way Pickman's - shame you're not coming tomorrow .... although your busy month sounds very interesting indeed.


----------



## innit (Oct 19, 2005)

I liked Yusef too, I thought he was quite a likeable anti-hero whereas Scobie was just a whole lot of nothing (I liked him to start with, then he started to get on my tits).

PM, as I'm sure you can tell the religion was quite hard to miss, but I don't think it was godbothering - it was a prominent theme because it was stated to be important to the main character, not that you could tell by the way he behaved, but it didn't paint a rosy picture of Catholicism imo.

And I wouldn't call it painterly, but I found it a very 'visual' book iykwim.


----------



## Daff (Oct 19, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> although greene disliked being considered merely a catholic novelist, his religion shines through in some of his books, notably brighton rock. has anyone who's read this month's book noticed any allusions to god bothery?



No, I didn’t find the Catholic thing that bothering either (even though I’m a fairly militant atheist). Two reasons:

I found Green’s attack on simplistic religious beliefs quite interesting. I don’t think he’s quite attacking Catholicism, but maybe the way that the set rules can be interpreted by people –e.g. Scobie’s guilt messing him up. Also the idea of suicide maybe not being a mortal sin –he’s maybe advocating a more complex, flexible Catholicism.

I also read it keeping in mind its historical context –written in 1948, it’s a post war, fairly colonial novel, a tad sexist, Eurocentric, etc. The religion makes some sense in that context. It couldn’t really be written today –if it was in a contemporary novel, it would have bothered me.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 19, 2005)

Right, I've only read the first 50 pages, but will merrily comment loudly on it when we meet anyway 

Here's some background reading for tomorrow - Orwell's scathing review of the book:

http://home.planet.nl/~boe00905/Orwell-C786.html

Could you incorporate discussion of this into the framework please hollis?

Thanks


----------



## Hollis (Oct 19, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Right, I've only read the first 50 pages, but will merrily comment loudly on it when we meet anyway
> 
> Here's some background reading for tomorrow - Orwell's scathing review of the book:
> 
> ...



Christ - don't read the books.. read the reviews.. some people.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Christ - don't read the books.. read the reviews.. some people.


 well the reviews are *shorter*


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 19, 2005)

Derian - 

we generally try not to discuss the ending except in very vague terms before people have finished book.. admittedly this isn't a potboiler so there no denoument to spoil (and if these fancy editions normally give it away in the introduction.) but have merely glimpsed your post my perspective on the rest of the book will be changed..

no biggie

but maybe next time you could be a bit more subtle in your spoilerage?


----------



## Derian (Oct 19, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> Derian -
> 
> we generally try not to discuss the ending except in very vague terms before people have finished book.. admittedly this isn't a potboiler so there no denoument to spoil (and if these fancy editions normally give it away in the introduction.) but have merely glimpsed your post my perspective on the rest of the book will be changed..
> 
> ...



Sorry


----------



## han (Oct 19, 2005)

So it's chez monkeydream, ya?

ooh i wanna come to this one - have missed the bookgroupies!

Have only read about 30 pages so far but already finding it an intriguing one....bloody colonials....they get on me tits!


----------



## citydreams (Oct 19, 2005)

I've not started yet and I'll be there


----------



## Hollis (Oct 19, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I've not started yet and I'll be there



Well got your bloody finger out then.. if I'm trekking all the way down to Loughborough Junction I expect some value.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 19, 2005)

I hope someone's bringing some wine.  There should be enough minor public schoolboys there to replicate the atmosphere of the Secretariat.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I hope someone's bringing some wine.  There should be enough minor public schoolboys there to replicate the atmosphere of the Secretariat.


well - i'm driving, so I intend to bring cake.  The fine wines will have to be someone else's domain...


----------



## Hollis (Oct 19, 2005)

Err.. a complete guide to "sinning" for the non-Catholic reader.

http://www.catholic-action.com/pages/refresh_mortal_sins.php 

Being brought up a God-fearing Baptist, I never knew it was so complicated.

And err...Graham Greene talking about the book:

http://members.tripod.com/~greeneland/heart.htm


----------



## Daff (Oct 20, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Err.. a complete guide to "sinning" for the non-Catholic reader.
> 
> http://www.catholic-action.com/pages/refresh_mortal_sins.php
> 
> Being brought up a God-fearing Baptist, I never knew it was so complicated.



 I think I'm going to hell...


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 20, 2005)

Daff said:
			
		

> I think I'm going to hell...


i think you might be missing one of the main points of atheism, sweetie...


----------



## Daff (Oct 20, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> i think you might be missing one of the main points of atheism, sweetie...



Blasphemy!

Get behind me, Satan!


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 20, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Well got your bloody finger out then.. if I'm trekking all the way down to Loughborough Junction I expect some value.


we would have happily held it in Wood Green if only someone had volunteered a venue 


forty pages to go.. time for a long lunch, i think


----------



## Hollis (Oct 20, 2005)

As an incentive to any wavering book groupies..I now have two speicalist cheeses to sample -  Brie de Meaux (Ile de France) and Fourme d'Ambert (Ambert in the Auvergne)..


----------



## innit (Oct 20, 2005)

...can someone pm me the address please?

Thanks


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2005)

I was going to come even though I haven't read the book, but I've just been invited to a cocktail party with nubile young ladies. It didn't take long for me to make my mind up.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 20, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I was going to come even though I haven't read the book, but I've just been invited to a cocktail party with nubile young ladies. It didn't take long for me to make my mind up.


and the ladies of the bookgroup aren't nubile?  

*and* we have Hollis...


----------



## Hollis (Oct 20, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I was going to come even though I haven't read the book, but I've just been invited to a cocktail party with nubile young ladies. It didn't take long for me to make my mind up.



Hey.. next time things ain't good, you're feeling lonesome and unwanted, always remember the bookgroup will be there.


----------



## innit (Oct 20, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> ...can someone pm me the address please?
> 
> Thanks


Or am I not invited


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 20, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> Or am I not invited


you have a text, wench!

what time are we meeting?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 20, 2005)

Around 7.30ish..

innit.. check your pm's.


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 20, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I was going to come even though I haven't read the book, but I've just been invited to a cocktail party with nubile young ladies. It didn't take long for me to make my mind up.


the bookgroup_ is _a cocktail party with nubile young ladies


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 20, 2005)

sitting here alone waiting for the doorbell to ring.. just finished it.. and all i can say is 

I thank god that i'm an atheist


----------



## Derian (Oct 20, 2005)

Thanks for the wonderful hospitality chez loughborough junction   Great to meet everyone I haven't met before, and those I met last time. Lots of bookgroupers there tonight! Really enjoyed the evening, thanks all   

I'll leave someone else to, er, herald the book for next month


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks to the boys at Monkeydreams Mansions.  There were cheeses aplenty, cake and fine wines.  However maybe the next time we should restrain ourselves to more simple fare...?  Bread and wine should do it, no?


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

twas another drunken success.. & whatever we think of his merits or otherwise, Graham Greene kept us talking about the book more than any other choice i can remember recently 

kudos to brainaddict for the inspired notion for novembers topic.. see other thread  

meanwhile, start preparing for christmas when we are doing Harold Pinter in a Panto stylee


----------



## han (Oct 21, 2005)

That was great! Thanx monkeydreams!

The idea to study the Good Book was an inspiration from above!

His guiding hand must've been with us at the bookgroup, methinks 

ow my head


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 21, 2005)

Another fine bookgroup - indeed, finer than many before, as I think in future we will look back on last night as the moment many of us began to open up to the Lord and his mercy


----------



## zora (Oct 21, 2005)

*claps happily*


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 21, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> *claps happily*


 *raises hands*


----------



## Pieface (Oct 21, 2005)

*expires*

so, like, _how much_ of the Good Book are we meant to read?

Bearing in mind that _some of us _ have an unfair advantage already.....


----------



## innit (Oct 21, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> *raises hands*


*sings Hallelujah*

Sister PieEye, checkest thou the other thread and verily all thy questions will be answered, nay, more than answered.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 21, 2005)

The scales were lifted from mine eye nary a minute ago Sister.

I verily wish that the Lord might put them back so that I may rest in blissful ignorance once more


----------



## eme (Oct 21, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Bearing in mind that _some of us _ have an unfair advantage already.....



I need guidance as I am.......... a heathen........  

Can I read a small child's picture version?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 21, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Bearing in mind that _some of us _ have an unfair advantage already.....



Oh god.. not another ex-happy-clappie..    

A most enjoyable evening..!! many thanks for citydreams accomodating us in his 'pad'..


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

i hope i have this wrong...

the next book isn't that god-bothery BIBLE, is it?


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> i hope i have this wrong...
> 
> the next book isn't that god-bothery BIBLE, is it?



Fuck the Bible 

<still annoyed i never got my shit together to buy Graham Green book>


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> Fuck the Bible


yeh, it's not one i'm too up for reading either.


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 21, 2005)

First off we'd all have to agree on a version. 

then buy it - which I have a real problem with in itself. 

This is a no-goer if you're serious


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

the satanic bible is a much shorter and enlightening read.

and delivered quickly by amazon.


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 21, 2005)

didn;t spike milligan write his own version of the bible? I'll do that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> didn;t spike milligan write his own version of the bible? I'll do that.


you do that, and i'll stick with anton lavey.


----------



## innit (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yeh, it's not one i'm too up for reading either.


I knew you wouldn't like it Pickman's.

I was imagining you shouting 'Bible Arsery!'

I will pray for you


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> you do that, and i'll stick with anton lavey.



nah - that spike milligan book was rubbish - i read it years ago.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

bible arsery? BIBLE ARSERY? by satan's sickly hue, there'll be no BIBLE ARSERY if i have anything to do about it!


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 21, 2005)

What book are we really reading then?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

not the fucking bible.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

on second thoughts, i'm quite happy to do the bible, on one small condition - that everyone nicks their bible from a different church.


----------



## innit (Oct 21, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> What book are we really reading then?


Ecclesiastes and Revelations.

(she said smugly, knowing that she will be on a different continent)


----------



## Hollis (Oct 21, 2005)

Not really..?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> Ecclesiastes and Revelations.
> 
> (she said smugly, knowing that she will be on a different continent)


who suggested this abomination?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> who suggested this abomination?



I blame onemonkey/brainaddict/zora


----------



## innit (Oct 21, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Not really..?


You looked quite cheerful about it last night   

I became quite cheerful, once I realised that the bible was the one I'm going to miss.

Picky, I suggest you console yourself with the promise of December's Pinter Panto in Khan's.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

ecclesiastes said:
			
		

> To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
> 
> A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
> 
> ...


but not, i note, a time for the bookgroup to read the bible!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> Picky, I suggest you console yourself with the promise of December's Pinter Panto in Khan's.




who suggested PINTER? 

surely 12th Night or the Merry Wives of Windsor - or best of all The Crucible, if we have to do a play. 

or something by aphra behn.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 21, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> Picky, I suggest you console yourself with the promise of December's Pinter Panto in Khan's.



Are we doing a play in Khan's now???

Jesus - I miss a couple and you've gone all fucking radical and arty.  Where are the good books?  (and not the Good Book   )


----------



## foo (Oct 21, 2005)

<peeps in to check brainaddict isn't about>   

i joined a book group last week, we're reading Gorgias & The Symposium - Plato (both)

it's pretty hard going. 

erm...ok, bye!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

foo said:
			
		

> <peeps in to check brainaddict isn't about>
> 
> i joined a book group last week, we're reading Gorgias & The Symposium - Plato (both)
> 
> ...


you should be grateful yr not reading some god-bothery.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 21, 2005)

See!

foo has a proper BG that makes her _think _ and _learn_.

I don't even know what a symposium *is * ffs!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> See!
> 
> foo has a proper BG that makes her _think _ and _learn_.
> 
> I don't even know what a symposium *is * ffs!


it's like a conference, but in this case written by the father of western philosophy.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> it's like a conference, but in this case written by the father of western philosophy.




you see!  I didn't know Plato even _had _ any kids!  What the *fuck * was my education for?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> you see!  I didn't know Plato even _had _ any kids!  What the *fuck * was my education for?


i think it was socrates - the ancient greek, not the talented brazilian footballer - who said that wisdom began with the knowledge of one's ignorance.

or words to that effect.


----------



## foo (Oct 21, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> you see!  I didn't know Plato even _had _ any kids!  What the *fuck * was my education for?



  

Gorgias is really good actually PieEye..give it a go.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> i think it was socrates - the ancient greek, not the talented brazilian footballer - who said that wisdom began with the knowledge of one's ignorance.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

foo said:
			
		

> Gorgias is pretty good actually PieEye..give it a go.


not as good as friedrich nietzsche's "the antichrist" or "twilight of the idols". or that recent book (tho' not by nietzsche) buffy and philosophy or whatnot. 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812695313/qid=1129904706/026-2891367-8262839


----------



## innit (Oct 21, 2005)

I hated Gorgias.  You must be very clever foo.

And I can't imagine that we'll actually end up doing a play in the curryhouse but don't tell onemonkey I said so!


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> who suggested PINTER?


it was the Swedish Academy, i believe


----------



## foo (Oct 21, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> I hated Gorgias.  You must be very clever foo.[/size]



lol, no. i'm not.    

anyway - i'll be off now. 

enjoy the bible....

dare i ask, Old or New Testament....? 

you poor fuckers.  


begatbegatbegatbegat....


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 21, 2005)

foo said:
			
		

> enjoy the bible....(



Not possible


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> it was the Swedish Academy, i believe


oh! 

let's read something more challenging, like quasimodo or summat. 

bloody pinter, we'd not talk at all over the food. 

there'd be

all

sort of

bloody

pinteresque

...

silences.


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> First off we'd all have to agree on a version.
> 
> then buy it - which I have a real problem with in itself.


never buy one.. steal it 


chooseth ye king james edition for preferenceth


----------



## foo (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> not as good as friedrich nietzsche's "the antichrist" or "twilight of the idols".



i disagree. 

Nietzche was a a puss-filled ranty turgid old bastard. i only liked Thus Spake Zara-wotsit - and i think that was only because i liked the title....


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

foo said:
			
		

> i disagree.
> 
> Nietzche was a a puss-filled ranty turgid old bastard. i only liked Thus Spake Zara-wotsit - and i think that was only because i liked the title....


Zararthustra always makes me smile.. i think it is beautifully written.. if a little bonkers


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> oh!
> 
> let's read something more challenging, like quasimodo or summat.
> 
> bloody pinter, we'd not talk at all over the food.


we are not merely _reading_ it.. we are _performing_ it 

as pantomime   

how could you not approve of that sort of irreverence, you old humbug?


----------



## foo (Oct 21, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> Zararthustra always makes me smile.. i think it is beautifully written.. if a little bonkers




yeh, it _is _  beautiful i know, i shouldn't do it a disservice...i just got sick to the back teeth of Neitzche at Uni - and the twats forever quoting him, thinking they'd found the answer to life and the universe etc. 

i just said, "eww, he had a crusty knob though!" in an annoyingly girlie way. 

that shut 'em up.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 21, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> how could you not approve of that sort of irreverence, you old humbug?



cos it will make us look like a right bunch of twats?


----------



## innit (Oct 21, 2005)

You can be the back end of the pantomime horse PieEye, you like horses!  And then nobody will see you acting like a right twat


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> cos it will make us look like a right bunch of twats?


Mr Khan and his team _know_ we _are_ a right bunch of twats

so i doubt he will put any real people down in the basement with us 

humbug


----------



## Pieface (Oct 21, 2005)

*beaten*


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

foo said:
			
		

> yeh, it _is _  beautiful i know, i shouldn't do it a disservice...i just got sick to the back teeth of Neitzche at Uni - and the twats forever quoting him, thinking they'd found the answer to life and the universe etc.
> 
> i just said, "eww, he had a crusty knob though!" in an annoyingly girlie way.
> 
> that shut 'em up.


he certainly had the best sense of humour of any philosopher i've encountered.. excepting Michael Rush


----------



## foo (Oct 21, 2005)

"Most people asking for the meaning of life really want to be told the purpose of life, which is a subtly different thing. It seems clear to me that there really isn’t one, but equally clear that we shouldn’t be in the least bit troubled by this..................The really important question is, ‘how should we behave?’ In this respect ethics is the most important branch of philosophy...."  

i'll lift that link if i may onemonkey, and have a shufti around later on. 

tara. i'm off home at last! 

what a wasted friday...

have a good weekend you panto-lovin', bible-bashing freaks.


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 21, 2005)

foo said:
			
		

> have a good weekend you panto-lovin', bible-bashing freaks.


you too you toga wearing agora-philic


----------



## Hollis (Oct 24, 2005)

We're not really reading 'the Bible' are we?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 24, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> We're not really reading 'the Bible' are we?


Hollis, sweetie.  You were there.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 24, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Hollis, sweetie.  You were there.


 But was he all there? It now seems not


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 24, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> But was he all there? It now seems not


well - he had dissolved himself in two bottles of red wine, IIRC - maybe that explains it all...


----------



## trashpony (Oct 24, 2005)

*Swwwwoooosh*

I appear to be coming into the bookgroup thread at a tangent. I have expressed in interest in coming along before (post number - oh god I don't know) but circumstances have prevailed (like not reading the book) and so I've always woosed out. But I would like to come to the next one on the grounds that I will be (probably) able to and there is enough time to read the book And that this thread is called 'BlahBlahBlah... welcomes new members'!

So may I participate in this obviously lively debate? And if so, what's the book? 


*hoping this will settle obvious potentially unpleasant spats among existing members *


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 24, 2005)

trashpony said:
			
		

> *Swwwwoooosh*
> 
> I appear to be coming into the bookgroup thread at a tangent. I have expressed in interest in coming along before (post number - oh god I don't know) but circumstances have prevailed (like not reading the book) and so I've always woosed out. But I would like to come to the next one on the grounds that I will be (probably) able to and there is enough time to read the book And that this thread is called 'BlahBlahBlah... welcomes new members'!
> 
> ...


  ask brainaddict - his idea...

but yes! come to bookgroup - lovely.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 24, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> well - he had dissolved himself in two bottles of red wine, IIRC - maybe that explains it all...



Exactly.. Hence I think the 'Intellectual Wing' of the book group bamboozling their choice upon the 'collective us'.  What do all the book group thickos think?


----------



## Derian (Oct 24, 2005)

I'm open to bribery


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 24, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Exactly.. Hence I think the 'Intellectual Wing' of the book group bamboozling their choice upon the 'collective us'.  What do all the book group thickos think?


<asks derian> which am I?


----------



## trashpony (Oct 24, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> but yes! come to bookgroup - lovely.



thank you 

(waiting to see what the book may be before signing in chicken's blood)


----------



## Derian (Oct 24, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> <asks derian> which am I?



You're open to bribery too   

*gathers spanglechick round to expand in whispers*


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 24, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> You're open to bribery too
> 
> *gathers spanglechick round to expand in whispers*


<sound of penny dropping>

Yes - _I'm_ open to bribery too...


----------



## Hollis (Oct 24, 2005)

Cool..     There's hope yet.  I say we tell them to get stuffed.  If Brainy's true to form, he'll at best read several chapters of each book, _yet still_ engage in a most detailed critique of why they're both 'rubbish' etc.      I feel like I shall be one of the fall guys in this.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 24, 2005)

trashpony said:
			
		

> thank you
> 
> (waiting to see what the book may be before signing in chicken's blood)



The Bible.


----------



## trashpony (Oct 24, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> The Bible.



I don't think I can. I'd be too embarrassed to buy it.   Plus I work with a really annoying god squad woman and she'll keep trying to get me to join her whacky church even more than she already does if she spies me with the good book.

Oh well, I shall just have to keep my fine wine and secret recipe chocolate brownies to myself then ...


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 24, 2005)

trashpony said:
			
		

> I don't think I can. I'd be too embarrassed to buy it.   Plus I work with a really annoying god squad woman and she'll keep trying to get me to join her whacky church even more than she already does if she spies me with the good book.
> 
> Oh well, I shall just have to keep my fine wine and secret recipe chocolate brownies to myself then ...


its only two of the books (Eccliesiwhasnames and revelations) and they're free on the internet.  i'm ambivalent, really. Whereas intially I was horrified.  It's progress.


----------



## trashpony (Oct 24, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> its only two of the books (Eccliesiwhasnames and revelations) and they're free on the internet.  i'm ambivalent, really. Whereas intially I was horrified.  It's progress.



Oh okay - that I can cope with. I will have to smuggle them into work so that the godsquadder doesn't know what I'm reading.   Otherwise all hell will break loose - fire and damnation, floods and pestilence.

Sorry, getting a bit carried away and I haven't even started yet.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 24, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> ask brainaddict - his idea...
> 
> but yes! come to bookgroup - lovely.


 I don't know where this myth that it was my idea came from - as far as I remember it was a collective (slightly drunken) decision and I refuse to take sole responsibility


----------



## han (Oct 25, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> ...as far as I remember it was a collective (slightly drunken) decision and I refuse to take sole responsibility



'Tis true! 

It was a drunken decision indeed   Perhaps in the cold light of day, we might see the error of our ways, and choose something else instead?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 25, 2005)

I did have a very brief look at 'Ecclesiasticles' today..


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 25, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> 'Tis true!
> 
> It was a drunken decision indeed   Perhaps in the cold light of day, we might see the error of our ways, and choose something else instead?



yespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyesplease


----------



## han (Oct 25, 2005)

It'd be a laugh to read it, I guess, it doesn't have to be the King James version - any modern translation will do! 

But if this is an unpopular choice, perhaps we could go for something more heathen ..


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 25, 2005)

I do agree that modern versions would make it significantly easier to read - I think we ought to allow them. I don't know about this *backtracking altogether* idea though - some people are such rampant populists!


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 25, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> yespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyespleaseyesplease


maybe if give reasons why we shouldn't read it.

give suggestions for something else instead

and turn up to the meetings when these things get decided  


i'd rather read something that met with violent opposition in some quarters than mild approval all round.


----------



## Dubversion (Oct 25, 2005)

none of my business really, as a non-contributor, but isn't it a bit of a non-starter.

surely it's impossible to read as a piece of prose, divorced from its message, and you decide to debate the message you'll be there all night discussing anything but the book (and largely agreeing, AFAIK). added to which unless you nail which version you're going to read, you won't even be able to compare the minimal style / prose points of the writing itself since you won't be reading the same thing...


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

What's been decided then?
I'm not reading a fucking play - plays are for performance, not reading in book groups.


----------



## Derian (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> What's been decided then?
> I'm not reading a fucking play - plays are for performance, not reading in book groups.



Ecclesiastes and Revelations. Which version is up for grabs but I think there's a vote further up for St James.

There's a degree of heckling mind


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

You are joking? Uh oh. That'll make it the fifth book in a row I haven't read.


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> maybe if give reasons why we shouldn't read it.



you can read what you like. But I won't be reading this.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I'm not reading a fucking play - plays are for performance, not reading in book groups.



Since when were plays only for performance?

Plays are just novels with more dialogue.  A good thing for a bookgroup.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> i'd rather read something that met with violent opposition in some quarters than mild approval all round.



May I make a suggestion?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> maybe if give reasons why we shouldn't read it.
> 
> give suggestions for something else instead
> 
> ...




Its:

(a) boring

(b) religious

(c) poncey


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

My book of the month:

The Culture of Lies - Dubravka Urgresic

In this urgent call to her country and her continent Ugresic shows us the jagged shards of a civilisation shattered, its pieces sharp with insight and glinting with wicked irony.
Literary Review:
The Culture of Lies can be placed in the company of such landmark chronicles of dissent as Czeslaw Milosz's the Captive Mind and Vaclav Havel's Living in Truth
TLS:
Ugresic is sharp, funny and unafraid in the face of little dictators who have torn apart her former country


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Since when were plays only for performance?
> 
> Plays are just novels with more dialogue.  A good thing for a bookgroup.


I can't get my head round reading a play without seeing it later on. Even Shakespeare. (Sorry, I'm still scarred from reading Caryl Churchill at Uni)


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

How about The Good Solder Svejk?


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

I'm up for reading a play


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> How about The Good Solder Svejk?



did that get any good reviews at all?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> How about The Good Solder Svejk?



I think they've 'done' that all ready.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> I'm up for reading a play



Me too. 
I've been suggesting one for two years now.  And an xmas panto is a top idea.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> did that get any good reviews at all?


Glowing - a lot of people rate it as their favourite ever book - which is why I recommended it - can't we read something fun to read rather than something we ought to read - some of the recent choices are well _undergraduate_


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> some of the recent choices are well _undergraduate_




Something fun?  You mean you didn't like Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts?

What's wrong with "the culture of lies"?  It does funny.  Ok. It also does war, depravity and lost innocence, but that's light reading round these parts.

I would like to read some more Eastern European novels


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> some of the recent choices are well _undergraduate_



  

How about 'The Catcher in the Rye'?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Glowing - a lot of people rate it as their favourite ever book - which is why I recommended it - can't we read something fun to read rather than something we ought to read - some of the recent choices are well _undergraduate_


ooooh!






well if you will eschew bookgroup in favour of nubile young women...


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> How about 'The Catcher in the Rye'?



Fuck off


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Something fun?  You mean you didn't like Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts?


Something fun. And good as well, which leads me to suspect The War On Fun won't be either of those things


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> You mean you didn't like Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts?



or Jeeves and Wooster?  or The Moonstone? or Emile Zola's tart with a heart?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Something fun. And good as well



How do we know if it's good until we read it?  

What do you suggest?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> or Jeeves and Wooster?  or The Moonstone? or Emile Zola's tart with a heart?



See they were fun - apart from Nana


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Something fun?  You mean you didn't like Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts?
> 
> What's wrong with "the culture of lies"?  It does funny.  Ok. It also does war, depravity and lost innocence, but that's light reading round these parts.
> 
> I would like to read some more Eastern European novels



The reason I wanted to get involved in this group was because i'd got stuck in a rut with my reading. I like the idea that I'm suddenly open to books I'd never thought of reading. So I was a bit disapointed to see the group had chosen the bloody bible - a book i was made miserable with all the way through my school years. 

DENP was great fun - laugh out loud stuff as far I'm concerned. Somehting of that ilk would be good. 

I'm well up for a good play - or an Eastern European novel. Or both. 

I'm reading a good book about the American Revolution at the moment - but I'm guessing its not the sort of thing most people want to read.

I couldn;t read Nana - don;t know why - but I just couldn;t bring myself to pick it up once I'd struggeled through the first two chapters


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Major Tom said:
			
		

> DENP was great fun - laugh out loud stuff as far I'm concerned.



I don't think Orang Utan even bothered to read it


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> How do we know if it's good until we read it?
> 
> What do you suggest?


Kafka On The Shore by Haruki Murakami
The Vesuvius Club - Mark Gatiss
The Line Of Beauty - Allan Holingshurst
The Shadow Of The Wind - Carlos Ruiz Zafon
The Good Soldier Svejk - Jaroslav Hasek
Margrave Of The Marshes - John Peel
Small Island - Andrea Levy
I'm sure I can think of a few more to suggest


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I don't think Orang Utan even bothered to read it



Embarrassingly - I've read all of his books apart from the most recent. I even read the one about the dog.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

I see you are all taking time to consider my excellent suggestions but have been flawed by the wealth of quality choices.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

I don't give a fuck but I'm realising the likelihood of me reading any bible is massively unlikely.

*mutinies*

Since we don't have so much time left what about some poetry?  Read a few of one poet and then have a chat about that?


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I'm not reading a fucking play - plays are for performance, not reading in book groups.


that's why we're proposing to do it as panto..  

pinter has just won the nobel prize for literature.. i think that makes him a very strong choice for our literary salon 

also bear in mind this is the selection for the xmas meeting where traditionally we barely talk about the at all


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> I don't give a fuck but I'm realising the likelihood of me reading any bible is massively unlikely.
> 
> *mutinies*
> 
> Since we don't have so much time left what about some poetry?  Read a few of one poet and then have a chat about that?


milton?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

How about Li Po and Tu Fu (A.D 770), regarded by many as China's greatest poets?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> How about Li Po and Tu Fu (A.D 770), regarded by many as China's greatest poets?



Fuck that.


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I can't get my head round reading a play without seeing it later on. Even Shakespeare. (Sorry, I'm still scarred from reading Caryl Churchill at Uni)


surely you mean _especially_ Shakespeare.. which can seem unpenentrable on the page but comes alive on stage.

couldn't agree more that performance gives you far more than merely reading a play but doing both gives you more than just seeing the play and we could always get out a video.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Do you not *do* poetry Hollis?  I don't know.. no bible, no poetry, no plays.. 
This is a book group, yes?


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

I give up.  I'll come and get pissed at the curry instead - hey, at least there won't be any spoilers coming from me this year


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> The Vesuvius Club - Mark Gatiss


i've read it, it's poor.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Fuck that.



Actually, fuck you Hollis now I come to think of it.  

Criticising poetry is one thing, but having the bare faced to cheek to just say "fuck it" is insulting.


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

people are missing the point of the bible study group somewhat..

we aren't reading the whole BIBLE and the bible isn't some monolithic set of stone tablets, it is an almost random collection of ancient texts, of course it is mostly a bunch of dull and often fairly preachy but ecclesiastes is a very atypical book.. and revelations is load of bonkers old cobblers that has inspired tons of other literature.. i've never read either and am interested in doing so.. and also interested in the bookgroup doing more than just picking books off the _waterstone's recommends_ shelf.

but i think it might be time to for a poll...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

*crosses self*


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> How about Li Po and Tu Fu (A.D 770), regarded by many as China's greatest poets?


what's this obsession with people from far-off countries of which we know little?

can't we do a couple of shakespeare sonnets or perhaps a bit of rilke? or yeats?

or one of the junkie poets?


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> but i think it might be time to for a poll...


which someone else can post


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> which someone else can post


i think it's hollis's turn...


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

can i also point out that i am a semi-professional atheist


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> can i also point out that i am a semi-professional atheist


yes.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Do you not *do* poetry Hollis?  I don't know.. no bible, no poetry, no plays..
> This is a book group, yes?


I only do novels. With narratives.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I only do novels. With narratives.


can you name me a novel without a narrative?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> what's this obsession with people from far-off countries of which we know little?



maybe you know little because you don't read enough of interest?

Li Po, whose addiction to wine was legendary, is a poet of the spirit, and his verses penetrate into the human mind and go beyond consciousness.

Tu Fu chronicles everyday life with humility and compassion, shot through with humour and a sense of desolation.  

Escapist but earthy, spiritual but realistic, romantic but precise.  Obivously nothing in common with you Picky?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> people are missing the point of the bible study group somewhat..
> 
> we aren't reading the whole BIBLE and the bible isn't some monolithic set of stone tablets, it is an almost random collection of ancient texts, of course it is mostly a bunch of dull and often fairly preachy but ecclesiastes is a very atypical book.. and revelations is load of bonkers old cobblers that has inspired tons of other literature.. i've never read either and am interested in doing so.. and also interested in the bookgroup doing more than just picking books off the _waterstone's recommends_ shelf.
> 
> but i think it might be time to for a poll...


Fair points there - I'm willing to give a portion of the Bible a try - after all, as a heathen, I need the ammunition 
Waterstones' Reccommends - touché but I happen to like a lot of the books that are in for the 3 for 2


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

*what about this?*




			
				citydreams said:
			
		

> Do you not *do* poetry Hollis?  I don't know.. no bible, no poetry, no plays..
> This is a book group, yes?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> can you name me a novel without a narrative?


Finegan's Wake
Pehaps I should have said plot though.
I said narrative to oppose fiction to poetry - I've never really enjoyed poetry unless a teacher has been there to hold my hand through it and tell me what it means


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Finegan's Wake
> Pehaps I should have said plot though.
> I said narrative to oppose fiction to poetry - I've never really enjoyed poetry unless a teacher has been there to hold my hand through it and tell me what it means


we could ask flimsier to attend...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> maybe you know little because you don't read enough of interest?
> 
> Li Po, whose addiction to wine was legendary, is a poet of the spirit, and his verses penetrate into the human mind and go beyond consciousness.
> 
> ...


what makes you think i want to read an alkie poet?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

what makes you think he wrote the poetry whilst being an alcoholic?


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

Have the group already done William Boroughs?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> what makes you think he wrote the poetry whilst being an alcoholic?


yr post above about him being famous for being an alcoholick.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yr post above about him being famous for being an alcoholick.



Does this mean you don't want to read anyone that at some point in life was addicted to some substance or other?  Or are you saying that anyone that was drunk had nothing worth writing?

Edited to add:  And to insinuate that the guy was a bad poet because he liked a drink is an appalling character assisination.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

I wouldn't have a problem with some chinese poetry - and we could read some junkie poets too (citydreams, I think it was pm who wanted to read them so he hasn't got a problem with writers that abuse substances - he's just picking holes in your choice is all) - the joy of poetry being that it is fairly short and quick.  (Unless you choose Milton of course, monkeyman and I've done my time with him - some of it was fun   )

How long are these bible books?  Actually nevermind - Dub's got some bibles, I'll have a look later.   But if it's dull (and I did read some of the links) I know I won't get very far at all...

Who do we have who is going to read them?  Maybe that is a good way of telling whether this is worth pursuing?

onemonkey?
brainaddict?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Does this mean you don't want to read anyone that at some point in life was addicted to some substance or other?  Or are you saying that anyone that was drunk had nothing worth writing?
> 
> Edited to add:  And to insinuate that the guy was a bad poet because he liked a drink is an appalling character assisination.


no, i didn't do any of the things you allege. 

you seem determined to read into my posts things which simply aren't there. dky - perhaps you can explain. perhaps not...

yr saying this bloke was famous for being addicted to wine. that in itself doesn't say too much for his poetry - else you'd have mentioned his fame for that. i like reading edgar allen poe, and fritz leiber - both well-known alcoholicks, which undermines your argument - as does my suggestion that we perhaps look instead at one of the junkie poets - shelley, wordsworth, coleridge etc.

why would i want to read the poetry of someone whose major claim to fame is not his literary work but his alcoholick intake? and who thinks he's one of china's greatest poets?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> why would i want to read the poetry of someone whose major claim to fame is not his literary work but his alcoholick intake? and who thinks he's one of china's greatest poets?



Perhaps if you'd have asked more about him rather than dismissing him offhand we could have had a normal conversation.

Never mind.  Maybe one day.

It is you who are reading too much into this.  Nowhere have I said that "his major claim to fame is...." I said it was legendary.  I like legends.  Especially when they turn out to be true.

In response to who thinks he's one of china's greatest poets.. the answer is not he, but they - as they were great friends.  And the source of said reverence is from the Penguin Classics edition.  There aren't many poets that have survived 1500 years of criticism and still remained modern.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

"remained modern"? 

people like ovid, juvenal, horace, homer and virgil have survived considerably longer than these two...


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> "remained modern"?



Well, look at the bible.. Is it still relevant to modern life?  Moot point seeming as noone wants to read it.  Let's try something else from that long ago.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

homer! 

or ovid!


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Can you think of more than ten authors?  How many from Asia?


----------



## Major Tom (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Well, look at the bible.. Is it still relevant to modern life?  Moot point seeming as noone wants to read it.  Let's try something else from that long ago.



not Barbara Cartland?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Can you think of more than ten authors?  How many from Eastern Asia?


yes. lots.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Can you think of more than ten authors?  How many from Asia?


what's wrong with eastern asia?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> what's wrong with eastern asia?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yes. lots.



Would you care to share?


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

KIDS!   

*bangs heads together*

We can read more than one person's choice if we do poetry - so your argument could be pursued after _having read some_!!

Loons - anyway - is ANYONE apart from monkeyboy planning on reading the bible because if not it obviously isn't a goer.

Who *will * read of the Good Book?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

i like revelations.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

revelation_   to you sir


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> *bangs heads together*



your heed's rock solid woman!


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Actually, fuck you Hollis now I come to think of it.
> 
> Criticising poetry is one thing, but having the bare faced to cheek to just say "fuck it" is insulting.



I fuck you to!!!

I think you maybe Benito Mussolini!!


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> How long are these bible books?  Actually nevermind - Dub's got some bibles, I'll have a look later.   But if it's dull (and I did read some of the links) I know I won't get very far at all...


ecclesiastes is 12 chapters long, revelations has 22

each chapter is about a page long..

easiest book group ever


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

a doss, in fact.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Who *will * read of the Good Book?


ok- i had my reservations on the night - but I've warmed to it now 
- it's something i've never read 
- it's only one month's book group and
- most of the people throwing a strop weren't at the last meeting anyway...  

I'm a passionate atheist.  But I'm kind of curious to read some of this civilisation-defining mythology.  So - although there have been some brilliant suggestions made in the last day or so, I'm landing on the side of the bible.  There will be other months for other choices.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Maybe I bring sawn-off shotgun to next bookgroup and blow the brains out..


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

and since they are so short i recommend reading them online at 

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

so that you get the added intelligent mockery too..


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> a doss, in fact.


just like scripture lessons at school


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

i like that bit about i have the keys of hell and death.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

it's short then   

onemonkey
spanglechick
PieEye - (I still don't know if I can even come mind   )


Hollis - you're losing your tiny mind - don't shoot yourself because *we * want to read the bible


----------



## Derian (Oct 26, 2005)

I'll do as I'm told   

But if it is the Bible - any chance we could make it just one book, rather than two?

If we're doing a play - can we make it something mean and murderous e.g. Webster's The White Devil?

If it's poetry - another vote here for Yeats. If modern - Anne Carson perhaps.

Novel .... well... still think The Last Kabbalist of Lisbon would be a good read and not too heavy coming up to Christmas.

But, will go with the flow  


That took so long to type about 20 posts intervened!! Just tell me ... I'll do it !!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Maybe I bring sawn-off shotgun to next bookgroup and blow the brains out..


if yr going to top yrself, could you do it in the privacy of yr own home, big vern?


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

just spotted that there is also a skeptics annotated Quran


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> just spotted that there is also a skeptics annotated Quran


link!


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> But, will go with the flow
> 
> 
> That took so long to type about 20 posts intervened!! Just tell me ... I'll do it !!


good god girl! 
 those splinters up your bum must be sore!


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

double post


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> PieEye - (I still don't know if I can even come mind   )


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

>




Yeah but I'm still paintballing and I am still going to kill you in the face!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Yeah but I'm still paintballing and I am still going to kill you in the face!


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Picky.. When you've finished shooting shit up, what Asian writers would you say have managed to stay modern over the last 1000 years?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Why we wanna read about Chinese people?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Because they were arguably the first civilisation.  Because I like poetry. Because I haven't read it before.  Because it's been recommended to me.  Because the chinese could kick your arse.  Because I think that Chinese writing has not been fairly represented by this group.

Anyway. It's not about Chinese people  It's about life, love and everything.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Pah! You not know the Chinese kick my arse.  I say we read something more accessible. 

I like the Miliatary History.. When d'we ever read that then???


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Pah! You not know the Chinese kick my arse.  I say we read something more accessible.


Agreed - I want something middlebrow - I find it hard to get the motivation to read something for book group on top of all the other books I read


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I say we read something more accessible.



What is accessible?  Do you mean something that you don't have to look very far for?  Or something that isn't going to have to make you think?

I think, as part of our xmas panto that we talk about the purpose of this bookgroup and try to bring some structure to next year.  Perhaps putting everyone's name in a hat and drawing one out each month?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Some stuff is just a real turn off, because its so culturally distant.  Yes it is lazy, but then we all have our preferences.  Would you like to read 400 pages on the Allied Bombing Campaign?  Fascinating stuff I tell you!  But not your cup of tea?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

How about this?

*The Subterranean Railway: How the London Underground Was Built and How It Changed the City Forever  * 
Christian Wolmar 

"This book deserves to be enjoyed well outside trainspotting or railway enthusiast circles. Charting the foundation and growth of one history's boldest engineering projects, it is full of fascinating revelations about London, its people, its politics, its demands and its ever-increasing needs. That sense of a secret world beneath our feet was never conveyed better. I read much of this book while travelling on the Underground itself, and emerged a good deal more appreciative of the visionary men who built it. Perhaps more commuters should do the same! "

You happy..I happy.. everybody happy.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I think, as part of our xmas panto that we talk about the purpose of this bookgroup and try to bring some structure to next year.  Perhaps putting everyone's name in a hat and drawing one out each month?


Good idea - methinks everyone has different expectations of this book group - mine is for fun, not edification, cos I read other stuff as well.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> How about this?
> 
> *The Subterranean Railway: How the London Underground Was Built and How It Changed the City Forever  *
> Christian Wolmar
> ...


I'm up for that


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Some stuff is just a real turn off, because its so culturally distant.  Yes it is lazy, but then we all have our preferences.  Would you like to read 400 pages on the Allied Bombing Campaign?  Fascinating stuff I tell you!  But not your cup of tea?



Personally, as I do not have a specialist subject, I would find it hard pressed to find anything worth discussing in a book that is purely factual.  There are exceptions.  My knowledge of history may be focused more on the anthripological than the sequence of events, but I feel the two can sit side by side in a good book, e.g Guns, Germs, Steel &c.

I like a book to add something to my life and to feel that I have grown as a person.

Frankly I'm shocked that a book about Chinese thought from 1000 years ago could be dismissed as being too much to bite off, or not relevant.  It's poetry.  It's supposed to be accessible over anything else.  It may only have lasted because it's the only example of its kind.  But then again, maybe it contains words, events and emotions that none of us have experienced.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

sun tzu
w'eng ch'ien


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

lao tzu
confucius


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

...off the top of my head...


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> ...off the top of my head...



Read 'em  

Would happily read them again.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Personally, as I do not have a specialist subject, I would find it hard pressed to find anything worth discussing in a book that is purely factual.



You see I find that suprising!  Since when has a history book been purely 'factual' ? innit.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> You see I find that suprising!  Since when has a history book been purely 'factual' ? innit.



Isn't that the point of a history book? To chronicle what is known and what is merely guessed at?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Isn't that the point of a history book? To chronicle what is known and what is merely guessed at?



Err.. an incredible amount of history is interpretive.. in fact once you get beyond A level 'history' its the main element of it.  

Certainly there's infinite capacity to 'grow as a person' through reading history books.  (If that's your thing.)


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> an incredible amount of history is interpretive..



so what you mean is that they're just guessing!  But then, don't you need to have read a second source to be able to discuss it?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> there's infinite capacity to 'grow as a person' through reading history books.



how so?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> so what you mean is that they're just guessing!  But then, don't you need to have read a second source to be able to discuss it?


no.

for example, if you read the documents about the salem witch trials i suspect you'd be able to discuss the events without (and preferably without) a knowledge of the crucible, and certainly without having to have had to read the voluminous secondary literature about the events of 1692.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> how so?


if you don't remember the past, yr condemned to repeat it.

you don't think that reading about people have coped with situations in the past enables you to become a fuller person? you'd prefer, apparently, not to use the collective memory embodied in history...

i don't know why you feel that, but it strikes me as particularly foolish.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> so what you mean is that they're just guessing!  But then, don't you need to have read a second source to be able to discuss it?



Christ! Maybe you should read some.  Yes.. that's why you get different interpretations, and why you get 'good' history and 'bad' history.  You know abit like the difference between plausible inferences etc. and crackpot conspiracy theory.

No - we seemed to have quite a good discussion about the Stuart Christie book without any of us being experts on Anarchism etc.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> how so?




Becuase you invariably learn about how people act under different situations, and maybe it adds depth to your current understanding/day-to-day interpretations of events.. (for example).. <turns off knobby mode>


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> if you don't remember the past, yr condemned to repeat it.
> 
> you don't think that reading about people have coped with situations in the past enables you to become a fuller person?



yes, yes, yes..  but if we're all reading the same book then we're not really learning much are we?  Whereas reading a novel we can all add out own views of the world (and even quote from the odd history book). 

I see your point about Granny Made Me An Anarchist.. but i think that worked because it challenges our self beliefs.. but not everyone liked it.. and i remember some discussion around the fact that it never really explained why he was an anarchist?  I don't really know cause some pieface has nicked my copy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> yes, yes, yes..  but if we're all reading the same book then we're not really learning much are we?  Whereas reading a novel we can all add out own views of the world (and even quote from the odd history book).


if there's a point there, it's remarkably understated.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

okay - Hollis and Pickmans - I'd be cool with reading some history in the new year...  in fact this Peoples Republic of Books / names in hat plan seems like a go-er, and then you can have totally free choice, but I don't see why the choice from last meeting, which hollis, you did agree to at the time, is such a non starter.  

I mean its short, free and easily available online. Plus, it has already been agreed upon by the people at bookgroup last month.  It seems a bit rough on it's proponents if it's over ridden now, doesn't it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

when last i saw onemonkey, i said 'fair enough' to the god bothery - but with the december book, which may as well be a play, i'd prefer to do 'the real inspector hound' by tom stoppard.

citydreams did suggest doing a play a couple of years ago...


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> if there's a point there, it's remarkably understated.



There were many points there.  Which one did you pick up on?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> There were many points there.  Which one did you pick up on?


why can't people learn something from all reading the same history book as opposed to all reading the same novel? eh?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> when last i saw onemonkey, i said 'fair enough' to the god bothery - but with the december book, which may as well be a play, i'd prefer to do 'the real inspector hound' by tom stoppard.
> 
> citydreams did suggest doing a play a couple of years ago...


cool - fabulous - we can discuss which play at the next meeting, can't we?  do we have to have a row about it now?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> cool - fabulous - we can discuss which play at the next meeting, can't we?  do we have to have a row about it now?


yes!


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> cool - fabulous - we can discuss which play at the next meeting, can't we?  do we have to have a row about it now?



We don't row, we discuss with passion 

ok.. Picky rows.


----------



## Pieface (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I don't really know cause some pieface has nicked my copy.




 

I know - I'm sorry - I keep meaning to read it....you will get it back I promise!


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yes!


well fuck you then,    

or something...


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> why can't people learn something from all reading the same history book as opposed to all reading the same novel? eh?



I'm not trying to claim that is the case.  Merely suggesting that a history book has less degrees of freedom than a novel/poem &c.. That's why I like factual fiction. Best of both worlds.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> well fuck you then,
> 
> or something...


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

>


did I do good arguing...  ?  

mild mannered me...  butter wouldn't melt etc...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> did I do good arguing...  ?
> 
> mild mannered me...  butter wouldn't melt etc...


hmm...

i bet it would.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> hmm...
> 
> i bet it would.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to claim that is the case.  Merely suggesting that a history book has less degrees of freedom than a novel/poem &c.. That's why I like factual fiction. Best of both worlds.



So let's read The Bible then


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

after you, good sir


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> yes, yes, yes..  but if we're all reading the same book then we're not really learning much are we?  Whereas reading a novel we can all add out own views of the world (and even quote from the odd history book).



I think you'll find that largely inaccurate.. if we ever read a history book.  Just out of interest when did you stop actually studying history?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I think you'll find that largely inaccurate.. if we ever read a history book.  Just out of interest when did you stop actually studying history?


i'm tempted to reply "when he found out it was the past" but i, too, would be interested to find out.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> but I don't see why the choice from last meeting, which hollis, you did agree to at the time, is such a non starter.
> 
> I mean its short, free and easily available online. Plus, it has already been agreed upon by the people at bookgroup last month.  It seems a bit rough on it's proponents if it's over ridden now, doesn't it?



I claim severe alcohol poisoning in my defence.    And, I don't actually remember agreeing to it.  

Still, if we have a month of hell reading this shit, then maybe we remember in future. Yes!


----------



## trashpony (Oct 26, 2005)

Have you lot decided yet?! I don't want to read ecclesiastie-whatsits for no good reason you know! 

Even if we are approaching the season of jaysus's birth ...


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

I try my best trashpony.


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> So let's read The Bible then


hallelujah, another convert 

and if we can persuade major tom i may consider a change of career


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

shurely


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2005)

I know what Revelations is but what's Ecclesiwotsit? I thought it was some kind of cake


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I know what Revelations is but what's Ecclesiwotsit? I thought it was some kind of cake


well, it isn't.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Okay.. I read bible, but still bring sawn-off shotgun to next bookgroup, hey onemonkey!


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Just out of interest when did you stop actually studying history?



I stopped studying history as a subject when I was 16. I took economics, accountancy, maths and law as a-levels.

I've never stopped reading history though.


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I've never stopped reading history though.



So you read it all at face value or wot?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> So you read it all at face value or wot?



I never take anything at face value


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Exactly.. so 10 people read the book! 10 different interpretations/opinions. Geddit?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Exactly.. so 10 people read the book! 10 different interpretations/opinions. Geddit?



Got it. 

And the allied bombing campaign is facinating you say?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Fascinating I tell you.. !

More fascinating than this.. complte text/study guides/learn the original Hebrew andd Greek for Eccelsiastes!!!     

http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/Ecclesiastes06to10.html


----------



## citydreams (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Fascinating I tell you.. !



Why? Is there more death and destruction than the bible?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

And Revelation

http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/Revelation01to05.html 

Hallelujah!


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Why? Is there more death and destruction than the bible?




A fascinating battle of strategy/wits/technology/personalities.  Ultimately horrifying.. and yes with much death and destruction.. does this mean it should be avoided or not confronted?


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 26, 2005)

Well it looks like I've missed a lot of fun on this thread but you are all coming round to the idea of reading the Good Book 

Some people are objecting on the grounds that it's *religious* reading material, and it is *in a sense*, but I think I can safely say that from neither of the chosen books could you possibly derive any kind of religion except perhaps some kind of nihilistic cult of doom. I hope that's a comfort to the more religion-averse. It's pretty funny that it's me and onemonkey - two of the most anti-religious people you can image - who've advocated this


----------



## onemonkey (Oct 26, 2005)

but hollis.. the bible is history


----------



## Hollis (Oct 26, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Well it looks like I've missed a lot of fun on this thread but you are all coming round to the idea of reading the Good Book



Yes! One post from the Spanglechick and we all say "Yes, We read the Bible".  Like puppets on a sting!!


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 26, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Yes! One post from the Spanglechick and we all say "Yes, We read the Bible".  Like puppets on a sting!!


but I appreciated it, and I think you're all lovely...


----------



## Hollis (Oct 27, 2005)

I just read Ecclesiasticles.  The whole lot..     

Onemonkey - you in Big Shit tomorrow.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Some people are objecting on the grounds that it's *religious* reading material, and it is *in a sense*



What are the '*'s for? Is this some young persons' txtspk?


----------



## han (Oct 27, 2005)

Well, I was totally up for reading bits of the bible - until it became apparent that it was a very unpopular idea and no-one wanted to do it.

But hallelujahgobble, people seem to be seeing sense at last!   

Those two books are SHORT and FREE, which are two very strong points in their favour. Plus, the amount of discussion they've already generated means we're probably in for a good un 

OK, the fact that we may use different translations from each other is pretty irrelevant really - it's the *mainly bonkers* ideas that are important. Who knows what the f*ck anyone really said 2000 years ago anyway?! It's all probably a load of chinese whispers...

Ecclessiastes was written about 1000 bc wasn't it? And Revelation written 60 years after Jesus's death by someone who thought he was the messiah. It's gonna be a bit biased innit! The most interesting thing about the Bible is that it's spawned this absolutely vast worldwide religion when it's basically just a collection of story-books from the middle east written 2000 years ago.

I wonder if there will be a new religion in 2000 years based on the Mr. Men books? Who knows?


----------



## Hollis (Oct 27, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> Those two books are SHORT and FREE, which are two very strong points in their favour.




I'm afraid these two points are quickly dissapaited when you read it.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 27, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I just read Ecclesiasticles.  The whole lot..
> 
> Onemonkey - you in Big Shit tomorrow.


 There's always the Samaritans hotline Hollis. A biblical solution to a biblical problem


----------



## Hollis (Oct 27, 2005)

Christ! What aload of rubbish!! What was the point.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 27, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Christ! What aload of rubbish!! What was the point.


 Isn't that the question ecclesiastes asks? Perhaps you should read it again - it might help you


----------



## Hollis (Oct 27, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Isn't that the question ecclesiastes asks? Perhaps you should read it again - it might help you



Fuck off.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 27, 2005)

I'm finding the Revised Standard Version (RSV) quite palatable btw


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2005)

Are all the versions very different?
I printed out the King James version cos I though that was the don of them all.
Shouldn't we all be reading the same version? Does it matter?


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 27, 2005)

Some stuff about who wrote Ecclesiastes:
http://www.hope.edu/academic/religion/bandstra/RTOT/CH16/CH16_4.HTM

I've heard it suggested in a few places that the book had two authors, either both doing some writing at different dates, or one oral teller and someone who wrote it down with modifications. This might explain a lot of the contradictions - particularly some of the bits at the end that look added in as pious afterthoughts. The "Just do what god says" bits never look very convincing after all the talk of life being vanity.

From that link above:
"The Jewish community struggled to canonize Ecclesiastes. Because of its somewhat troubling observations, they perceived the need to retrieve the book from heresy and give it an orthodox patina. The editorial history of the book gives evidence of their efforts. Although there has been considerable discussion concerning the structure and editorial shape of the book (see Wright 1968), there is a general consensus that the core of the book of Ecclesiastes is 1:2 through 12:8. To this was added the introduction that "Solomonized" the book and a series of two, perhaps three, conclusions."


----------



## Hollis (Oct 27, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I'm finding the Revised Standard Version (RSV) quite palatable btw




Well I went with the King James version.. so I demand you do.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I'm finding the Revised Standard Version (RSV) quite palatable btw


it's good with chips.


----------



## zora (Oct 27, 2005)

Read both today on my lunchbreak.   

The version: The 100-minute -bible.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 31, 2005)

You can't beat Revelation chapter 6 for sheer overblown fantastical weirdness my friends


----------



## eme (Oct 31, 2005)

innit - and I always thought angels were nice things... these ones are some meanies.... the 7 eyed lamb and locusts with ladies hair are something else!

I quite like this version  as it is trying to explain in a way that is making sense to me, even with no sunday school!



> THE DIFFICULTY IN UNDERSTANDING THE BOOK: The early church likely did not have the problem understanding the book we do today. They were well acquainted with the style of apocalyptic literature. They were living at a time when the symbols of the book were likely familiar to them (similar to how a picture of a donkey fighting an elephant would be understood by us as depicting conflict between the Democratic and Republican parties)



and this bit: "VISION OF CHRIST AMONG THE LAMPSTANDS" hehehe...


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 31, 2005)

Though this comes close:



> And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death will fly from them.
> In appearance the locusts were like horses arrayed for battle; on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, their hair like women's hair, and their teeth like lions' teeth; they had scales like iron breastplates, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. They have tails like scorpions, and stings, and their power of hurting men for five months lies in their tails.
> They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit; his name in Hebrew is Abad'don, and in Greek he is called Apol'lyon.
> The first woe has passed; behold, two woes are still to come.


----------



## trashpony (Oct 31, 2005)

When's the meet? I haven't started reading it yet (although if I can get through the thing in a lunch hour, maybe I shouldn't start to worry)


----------



## rusalki (Oct 31, 2005)

trashpony said:
			
		

> When's the meet? I haven't started reading it yet (although if I can get through the thing in a lunch hour, maybe I shouldn't start to worry)



Hello everyone,

what a fantastic thing a reading group!

It is a few days that I'm writing on the boards. I'm going to Italy the 12th of November and I'm not back since the beginning of December, but I'd like very much to join some reunions, when I'm here...

Ok something of me. I'm a Ph.d student (kind of history/cultural studies) and I live in Brixton at the moment. I'm an old, quite coloured girl.
Are you reading Ecclesiaste or something from the Bible for the next meeting?

Hope to come once,

 - Trashpony: I like your nickname  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 !


----------



## eme (Oct 31, 2005)

rusalki said:
			
		

>



rusalki - I like your smiley - nice pink cheeks!


----------



## rusalki (Oct 31, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> rusalki - I like your smiley - nice pink cheeks!



Yes, it is nice. It comes from an old Italian board on books to which I partecipated some years ago... No one is anymore writing there. It's a pity. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Anyway the smileys are still usable!!! I like the flowers 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 and this
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.


----------



## Derian (Nov 1, 2005)

Hello rusalki   

I very much like your user name. Is it the plural though - of that Russian spirit? So we get two (or more) for the price of one   

Have you read the book - title of your namesake - by C.J. Cherryh?

Hope to meet you at a bookgroup meeting. Enjoy your postings in the next few days and have a good trip to Italy. 

Piacere di conoscerti (devo esercitarmi il mio italiano    )


----------



## rusalki (Nov 1, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> Hello rusalki
> 
> I very much like your user name. Is it the plural though - of that Russian spirit? So we get two (or more) for the price of one
> 
> ...



Hello! Yes it is the plural of RUSALKA and you are the first person that recognizes it!!! No, I didn't read the book by Cherryh, I know of rusalki from folklore books.

Where have you been in Italy?
I'm from Pistoia, close to Florence. I've been studying at Florence University.

Good that you are learning Italian! I'd like to learn German, but I don't find the time...


----------



## Derian (Nov 1, 2005)

rusalki said:
			
		

> Hello! Yes it is the plural of RUSALKA and you are the first person that recognizes it!!! No, I didn't read the book by Cherryh, I know of rusalki from folklore books.
> 
> Where have you been in Italy?
> I'm from Pistoia, close to Florence. I've been studying at Florence University.
> ...



Rusalki are très c   l ! Folklore and mythology are an interest of mine - but as with most of my interests I just dabble/skim the surface   

Italy - have been to Venice a few times (twice at carnevale), Florence ditto, Siena, Milano, Torino, Roma, Gubbio, lake Maggiore, Amalfi, Capri, etc etc. Studied Italian for a few years but I'm very very rusty at the moment - never seem to have the opportunity to practice so it takes me a few days to get back in the swing of things when I visit. I believe that spanglechick lived/worked in Italy for a while too, so maybe we should do an urban italian group in the New Year? 

Zora may drop by the thread and tell you about the urban german group ...

Anyway, welcome   Hope you are settling in well and that someone has offered you hobnobs etc!

(Btw - the books are Ecclesiastes and Revelations)


----------



## rusalki (Nov 1, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> Zora may drop by the thread and tell you about the urban german group ...
> 
> Anyway, welcome   Hope you are settling in well and that someone has offered you hobnobs etc!
> 
> (Btw - the books are Ecclesiastes and Revelations)



What are hobnobs...?

Ecclesiastes, I like it! Vanity of vanity and all the rest - an Italian songwriter and fiddler made a very good song from it in the seventies.

At the moment I have a lot to do with Leviticus and the prescriptions against blood    , but it would be interesting to partecipate at the group... I'm in Italy on the 17th...     And so for Xmas. I just come back some days in December, but until January I can't say that I'm "completely" in London... Xmas is for family- and boyfriend and cat   !

Can I suggest Ezekiel if there will be another meeting on the Bible? (To which I hope to partecipate).


----------



## Hollis (Nov 8, 2005)

Could someone start organising the curry please.

Thanks


----------



## citydreams (Nov 8, 2005)

What's wrong with Bonningtons


----------



## Hollis (Nov 8, 2005)

Actually I'm happy to go to Bonningtons.. curry's enormously overrated muck anyway.. stuff it!


----------



## Derian (Nov 8, 2005)

Bonningtons?   

<dons gullibility hat>


----------



## Hollis (Nov 8, 2005)

Its a right-on veggie/vegan cafe beloved of the chattering middle-classes.. We'd fit in perfectly.


----------



## Derian (Nov 8, 2005)

Ah   

Bring your own chicken


----------



## Hollis (Nov 8, 2005)

Good point.. those who want a meat eating place say 'Aye'.. I can assure you nobody will be rushing off to book a table in the next hour at a date convenient to them and foreclosing _any_ discussion on the matter.  Oh no, no, no  - that's not the way we do things in the bookgroup.


   

<legs it>


----------



## Derian (Nov 8, 2005)

Nah, I'm not an 'aye'   

Where is Bonningtons though?


----------



## Hollis (Nov 8, 2005)

Somewhere near Vauxhall tube


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 8, 2005)

i eat meat, but if we have veggies / vegans it seems fairer to go somewhere with more choice for them, and i'm all for it not being curry - however, i'd go for somewhere comfy where we can be loud...  that's my vote.


----------



## Derian (Nov 8, 2005)

Ta Hollis.

*glances at bible sitting accusingly in corner*


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 8, 2005)

Been wanting to go to Bonningtons for a while.
(I'm sure they could rustle me up a bacon sandwich if I am persistent enough)


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 9, 2005)

Bonningtons would be fine with me too.

Anyone interested in Jewish apocalyptic literature and its historical context? No? Oh well, here's a link anyway:
http://www.wcg.org/lit/bible/Rev/apocalyptic.htm


----------



## citydreams (Nov 9, 2005)

Cool..  I can cycle past tomorrow night and see if they can take us for the 15th Dec.


----------



## zora (Nov 10, 2005)

Bonnington's! Brilliant! Was that really Hollis' idea?

*scrolls back up thread* ah, no, it was Citydreams'!


----------



## Hollis (Nov 10, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> Bonnington's! Brilliant! Was that really Hollis' idea?
> 
> *scrolls back up thread* ah, no, it was Citydreams'!



Yes - but I gave it the nod.


----------



## citydreams (Nov 10, 2005)

I think it might still be too early to book for December
http://www.bonningtoncafe.co.uk/


----------



## Hollis (Nov 11, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I think it might still be too early to book for December
> http://www.bonningtoncafe.co.uk/



Yeah.. and have you also noticed that Thursday is VEGAN night..


----------



## Hollis (Nov 11, 2005)

I do think this very serious issue needs to be addressed.  Alot of vegan food genuinly ain't that nice.. I KNOW.


----------



## Hollis (Nov 11, 2005)

And as I'm talkin' to meself.. how about combining next weeks bookgroup with Hippipol's 50th bash in Borough?  I have no idea how literate the guy is, but I'm sure he won't mind aload of bookies gatecrashing his bash..?

And its not as if I can imagine the book detaining us too long.


----------



## Derian (Nov 11, 2005)

I was talking to you on yer other thread   

So ... Bonningtons = December (not next week) + vegan (possibly not good).

Next week = proposal for Hipipol's 50th in Borough

Yes?

Borough's nice 'n' near for me


----------



## han (Nov 12, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> And as I'm talkin' to meself.. how about combining next weeks bookgroup with Hippipol's 50th bash in Borough?  I have no idea how literate the guy is, but I'm sure he won't mind aload of bookies gatecrashing his bash..?
> 
> And its not as if I can imagine the book detaining us too long.




yesyesyesyesyeeeessss!!!

Let's meet somewhere near Borough high st, or sommat.

Or we could just meet in the same pub - then we won't have to move


----------



## zora (Nov 12, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> So ... Bonningtons = December (not next week) + vegan (possibly not good).
> 
> Next week = proposal for Hipipol's 50th in Borough
> 
> ...




RE Next week = proposal for Hipipol's 50th in Borough:another vote for this from me

RE Bonningtons = December (not next week) + vegan (possibly not good): Bonningtons December: Citydreams, is it always the same person cooking on thurdays, then you might be able to get in touch with them directly, even if the dates aren't on the wbesite that far in advance, that's what I did for my birthday.Bonningtons vegan= I can't remember any of the food I've had there containing any eggs/cheese/cream/what have you and it's always been delicious. 
Hollis=overruled.


----------



## Hollis (Nov 14, 2005)

Well... i can't make it Thursday now.. so someone else' will have to be El Supremo this week.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 15, 2005)

Where is this week's meeting then?

Eccywhotsit and Revelations were a load of bollocks, but bollocks in different ways.


----------



## Derian (Nov 15, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Where is this week's meeting then?
> 
> Eccywhotsit and Revelations were a load of bollocks, but bollocks in different ways.



I still haven't read them   Relying on the tales of reading during lunch hour ... or for me, the train depending on where we're meeting (I don't know either is Hipipol's birthday venue confirmed?).


----------



## Lysistrata (Nov 15, 2005)

I often have lunch at Bonningtons and I've always had a good meal there.

Is it the book group THIS week?  Then I'll miss it and don't even know what the book is.  Haven't been around due to my mum (and my partner's mum) both being seriously ill but my mum is recuperating now and Ben's mum is due for an operation in December which should make her better.

Will now attempt to read back through thread to catch up.

 L


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 15, 2005)

december means book group curry! 

and where are we meeting, if it's not at donington?


----------



## Hollis (Nov 15, 2005)

We are engaging in a 'paradigm shift' and going for _delicious_ vegan food this Christmas .

Vegan food.. yum, yum and ZERO cross-contamination..


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 16, 2005)

so the group is tomorrow right? where are we meeting? is hipipol going to be in a pub?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2005)

Who's Hipipol and why is the book group crashing his/her party?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> Haven't been around due to my mum (and my partner's mum) both being seriously ill but my mum is recuperating now and Ben's mum is due for an operation in December which should make her better.


Sorry to hear about that Lys

I think it's this this week

Anyone?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> We are engaging in a 'paradigm shift' and going for _delicious_ vegan food this Christmas .


Vegan? Not even any cheese - hmmm


----------



## Hollis (Nov 16, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Vegan? Not even any cheese - hmmm



Yeah.. I favour another night.. but there we go..


----------



## han (Nov 16, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Who's Hipipol and why is the book group crashing his/her party?



Hipipol is a luuuvly old skool urbanite and it's his 50'th birthday, in a pub on Borough High St 

We don't have to have the bookgroup at his party though! We could just go there afterwards, whatever! (Or we could have the bookgroup there - not gonna be much to say about the bible now, is there  )


----------



## Hollis (Nov 16, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> We don't have to have the bookgroup at his party though! We could just go there afterwards, whatever! (Or we could have the bookgroup there - not gonna be much to say about the bible now, is there  )



Han - you need to grap the bull by the horns.  Tell them to be at a pub at a specified time and they'll be there.


----------



## citydreams (Nov 16, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Yeah.. I favour another night.. but there we go..



Which night? I only suggested Bonningtons cause it's bring your own booze, it's cheap and cheerful and cosy and they serve riff-raff


----------



## Hollis (Nov 16, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Which night? I only suggested Bonningtons cause it's bring your own booze, it's cheap and cheerful and cosy and they serve riff-raff




Excellent - I'm fine going there.. its just that it appears Thursday is vegan night.  Do we realy on zora's judgement that it'll still be nice or do we opt for say a Wednesday night?  

I'm not too bothered tbh though.. whatever etc..etc.


----------



## han (Nov 16, 2005)

*Announcement!!*

OK, old bean. 

ANNOUNCEMENT!!!

*This month's bookgroup is tomorrow, Thursday 16th November, at 7.30pm, at the Blue Eyed Maid pub, 173 Borough High St.* 

It coincides nicely with the lovely Hipipol's 50th birthday party, at the same venue 

More details here 

Map 

ALL WELCOME!


----------



## Hollis (Nov 16, 2005)

Most impressive!


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 16, 2005)

well done han - a bit more decisiveness is exactly what we need around these parts


----------



## Hollis (Nov 16, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> well done han - a bit more decisiveness is exactly what we need around these parts




Hark who's talking..     Didn't read Revelations by the way..


----------



## han (Nov 16, 2005)

Well - I'm going to have to cram my biblical reading into one night this evening - ulp!!


----------



## Derian (Nov 16, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> Well - I'm going to have to cram my biblical reading into one night this evening - ulp!!



Me too   

Thanks for decisively organising it, han   

Sorry to hear about your recent troubles, Lysistrata. Hope all's looking up a bit more now and glad to hear that your mum is recovering.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2005)

han said:
			
		

> Well - I'm going to have to cram my biblical reading into one night this evening - ulp!!


I can summarise it for you - lots of bad things will happen to you if you don't do what you're told.


----------



## han (Nov 16, 2005)

Ta Derian!  Decisiveness is NOT one of my strong points, so that was good practice! 




			
				Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I can summarise it for you - lots of bad things will happen to you if you don't do what you're told.



 

That probably summarizes all the world religions in one..


----------



## han (Nov 16, 2005)

Lysistrata - sorry to hear about your mum and Ben's mum being ill - glad your mum is recuperating now and hope that Ben's mum gets well soon. X x X


----------



## onemonkey (Nov 16, 2005)

*godspeed*

out with a bunch of psychos early most of the evening but may try to race over for last orders


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 16, 2005)

got to pike out guys, i'm afraid...  feeling a bit run down, and saving myself for PRoD on Friday (whaddya mean I've got my priorities wrong?)  

Anyway, I'm sure you'll all have japes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2005)

can't go tomorrow.


----------



## han (Nov 16, 2005)

The lord will smote ye all!!!


----------



## han (Nov 16, 2005)

you will be missed *sob*


----------



## Derian (Nov 16, 2005)

So who is coming along?

(Asking cos I'm meant to be going somewhere else, but decided to give this priority instead .... but if the date's tricky for most folk etc ... perhaps rearrange?)


----------



## Lysistrata (Nov 16, 2005)

I can't make it tomorrow - although I have in fact read Ecclesiastes and Revelations - we all read it at school when we were in our Erik von Daniken phase.  Spaceships and aliens don't you know.  At least you didn't pick L Ron Hubbard.

 L


----------



## zora (Nov 17, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> So who is coming along?
> 
> (Asking cos I'm meant to be going somewhere else, but decided to give this priority instead .... but if the date's tricky for most folk etc ... perhaps rearrange?)



Mee! But you knew that already, I guess...did I mention that this will be my 29th out of 30 possible attendances? Okay, I'll shut up.  

I don't think rearranging is possible really with the pre-christmas madness of partying kicking in - before we know it it'll be time to meet up for the DELICIOUS VEGAN X-MAS PARTY  (<- Hollis' idea!!! But I like it. )


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> Mee! But you knew that already, I guess...did I mention that this will be my 29th out of 30 possible attendances? Okay, I'll shut up.
> 
> I don't think rearranging is possible really with the pre-christmas madness of partying kicking in - before we know it it'll be time to meet up for the DELICIOUS VEGAN X-MAS PARTY  (<- Hollis' idea!!! But I like it. )



Great! So you, han and me for definite. Onemonkey later maybe. Brainaddict? Citydreams? Orang Utan?

Started Revelations, about 1/2 way through ...


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 17, 2005)

Brainaddict will be there.


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)




----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

I will come if work let me out on time


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Brainaddict will be there.



Hahahah!!

Please pick a good book for next month.


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I will come if work let me out on time



Would be nice to say hello


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Hahahah!!
> 
> Please pick a good book for next month.



Best get yer suggestions posted while you can


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Well my suggestion from last month:

"The Subterranean Railway: How the London Underground Was Built and How It Changed the City Forever"

Christian Wolmar

"Since Victorian times, London's Underground has made an extraordinary contribution to the economy of the capital and has played a vital role in the daily life of generations of Londoners. This wide-ranging history of the Underground celebrates the vision and determination of the Victorian pioneers who conceived this revolutionary transport system and the men who tunnelled to make the Tube. From the early days of steam to electrification, via the Underground's contribution to twentieth-century industrial design and its role during two world wars, the story comes right up to the present with its sleek, driverless trains and the wrangles over the future of the system. The Subterranean Railway reveals London's hidden wonder and shows how the railway beneath the streets helped create the city we know today."


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

I rarely read factual stuff apart from employment law (and that's only cos I have to) - so this would probably be 'improving' for me   I'd be OK with that


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

I wanna read Down And Dirty Pictures by Peter Biskind but I'm betting no one else does


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

Down and Dirty Pictures 

Looks quite interesting.

*Ooooh ooooh oooh managed to do that linky thing for the first time ever   *


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Richard Fletcher, Bloodfeud: Murder and Revenge in Anglo-Saxon England (London: Penguin, 2003)



			
				asian review of books said:
			
		

> "The force of boredom in human history is one that historians have underestimated."
> What is it about the Anglo-Saxon period that is so fascinates?
> 
> The Angles and Saxons were, after all, barbarian peoples who sacked and enslaved the Romanized Britons, destroying a level of civilized society not to be reached again for 1000 years. The Anglo-Saxons themselves, with a few exceptions, hardly covered themselves in glory, preferring in most cases to buy off the Danes (the terrorists of their day) rather than fighting and finally being defeated rather ignominiously by an upstart Frenchman of, horrors, Viking descent. Much of the glories of the Medieval England, all those castles and churches, are really Norman.
> ...


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

Have to admit, that looks my favourite so far.

And it's only £5.59 here 

*Getting the hang of this, 'scuse the practising*


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

That's my least favourite so far..


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Vetoed!


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> That's my least favourite so far..


for someone so interested in mass killing, that seems a peculiar stance to adopt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Vetoed!


in which case i'm vetoing your suggestion.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Tut tut


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> for someone so interested in mass killing, that seems a peculiar stance to adopt.


 
Aww diddums

(( ))


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

Scrap!   

*hangs around thread for ringside seat*


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Actually, now Pickman's has edited his post to provide more details, it does look like an interesting read. I still want to read my choice though


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Actually, now Pickman's has edited his post to provide more details, it does look like an interesting read. I still want to read my choice though


it was edited 20 minutes before you vetoed it...


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Was it?
I didn't see it


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Was it?
> I didn't see it


it gives the time of editing at the bottom of the post, cunningly hidden away...


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Still vetoing it! No-way I'm reading that shite!


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Still vetoing it! No-way I'm reading that shite!


yeh. but i didn't expect anything better from you.

thought ou had more curiousity, mind...


----------



## Derian (Nov 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Still vetoing it! No-way I'm reading that shite!



But yours was an historical read too


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yeh. but i didn't expect anything better from you.
> 
> thought ou had more curiousity, mind...



Ho! Ho!

(( ))


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Ho! Ho!
> 
> (( ))


yr more like the ghost of whatsisface, scrooge's dead partner, than some sort of jovial festive father xmas or whatnot.


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yr more like the ghost of whatsisface, scrooge's dead partner, than some sort of jovial festive father xmas or whatnot.




Feeling better ??

((  ))


<zzz..>


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> it gives the time of editing at the bottom of the post, cunningly hidden away...


I meant the C & P you stuck in


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I meant the C & P you stuck in


no, that was added the last time it was edited, as it clearly states at the bottom of the thread.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Feeling better ??
> 
> ((  ))
> 
> ...


it's a bit early to pass out...


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> no, that was added the last time it was edited, as it clearly states at the bottom of the thread.


Yes that's clear.
Dunno what you're getting at


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Yes that's clear.
> Dunno what you're getting at


you had a third of an hour to read about the book, yet you vetoed it without even glancing at my post, by your own admission.


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Golly Gosh!! Well that was all fun...     

So as things stand the current line-up is:

blood-feuds in the 11th century

v

Why the tube was built

v

some arty book about independent cinema..

Please feel free to add as appropriate.



PLUR


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> you had a third of an hour to read about the book, yet you vetoed it without even glancing at my post, by your own admission.


<bangs head agaonst wall>
When I read first read your post, it didn't have the info you later required - it was only by chance that I saw the edit later.
Capisce?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 17, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> some arty book about independent cinema..


It's not arty - it's stuffed full of salacious gossip


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> It's not arty - it's stuffed full of salacious gossip



Well.. that sounds more interesting..


----------



## zora (Nov 17, 2005)

All that posturing is very sweet, you lovelies - but don't forget that the decision is gonna be made by the people attending tonight.   

I do feel partly responsible though for this month's... ahem...debacle...I thought it might be a bit of a larf to try and read a bit of the old King John's 'or was it James' English...it wasn't.  
But I did get lots of other reading done this month which was .

Look forward to seeing you later!


----------



## Hollis (Nov 17, 2005)

Jawohl _!!_


----------



## zora (Nov 17, 2005)

That's okay..._Ruehren!_


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 17, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I wanna read Down And Dirty Pictures by Peter Biskind but I'm betting no one else does


ahh man - i love peter biskind's books.  right up my alley this. 

eta - not likely to be art at all...


----------



## Derian (Nov 18, 2005)

All very sober and refined   

The nominee who turned up with proposed book, had a unanimous 'aye' and no fightin'.

Yes.

The lovely Orang Utan's book is December's choice.

Read and love salacious media .... 

we gve you ...


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 18, 2005)

Another fine bookgroup last night, and the choice for next month is indeed Down and Dirty Pictures - we decided those not there were not allowed to veto


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> <bangs head agaonst wall>


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2005)

alright, i'll have a look at this filthy book. it could be vaguely diverting...


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Another fine bookgroup last night, and the choice for next month is indeed Down and Dirty Pictures - we decided those not there were not allowed to veto


is that a typo for 'vote'?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2005)

Twas a great night - I had a fine time and I also got my own way 
Great to meet Derian too - thanks for all the fags!


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 20, 2005)

what are other people's first impressions of this month's book?


----------



## Derian (Nov 20, 2005)

It's got some nice photos


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 20, 2005)

yeh, i'll give it that.


----------



## Derian (Nov 20, 2005)

Very close typeface though   


Orang Utan says we can dip in and out. Good job too or I'll take more than a month to read it


----------



## han (Nov 21, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> what are other people's first impressions of this month's book?



It looks very interesting - but knowing my appalling record on finishing books D)  I won't be able to finish it in time - I need thin books with big writing, me   

also am reading a v interesting biog of Kate Adie at the mo...


----------



## onemonkey (Nov 23, 2005)

will go out and purchase it right now


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 24, 2005)

Well I hate to be predictable'n'all, but though I liked the blurb of this book when I read it the other night, I just read a few pages in the bookshop and find the style *really* annoying. Not sure I'm willing to splash out £9 on it, or even risk arrest by nicking it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 24, 2005)

He does ovveruse the extended metaphors in the preface but keep at it!


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 24, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I just read a few pages in the bookshop and find the style *really* annoying.



What are the asterisks for?


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 24, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> He does ovveruse the extended metaphors in the preface but keep at it!


Yes, that was *very* annoying, but I flicked through and started reading in random places in case it improved (see - I do give books a chance    ) but it still bugged me. Anyway, doesn't matter too much as I'm missing the next bookgroup - off to Morocco from the 15th to the 24th of December


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 24, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> What are the asterisks for?


 Lazy man's emphasis.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 24, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Lazy man's emphasis.


What's wrong with _italics_?


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 24, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> What's wrong with _italics_?


 i usually use quick reply, which doesn't give you an italics button so you have to type by hand - let's look at this:

[ i ] [ / i ]

7 characters

**

2 characters

savvy?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 24, 2005)

You lazy txtspk youngsters 
<shakes fist>


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 26, 2005)

oooh!

I ordered it 2nd hand hardback off amazon on thursady - it came today...  It's a big fucker, innit.  Still - got through the preface and intro fairly quickly - 
Biskind is abit wanky in his style sometimes, i'd forgotten, but you get adept at tuning it out and skimming over (you won't miss anything - there's a pretty low points-to -page ratio, generally.)  

anyway - when is the xmas meet?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2005)

i hope it's the *traditional* curry at khan's...


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> i hope it's the *traditional* curry at khan's...


i thought it was the vegan thingy?   
(not vegan and don't really like curry, so not fussed either way)


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> i thought it was the vegan thingy?
> (not vegan and don't really like curry, so not fussed either way)


a vegan thing? 

a VEGAN thing?


----------



## zora (Nov 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> a vegan thing?
> 
> a VEGAN thing?



page 26!!  and the date's the 15th!  Oh, and I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it to our *new* members yet: we always have a  secret santa at the x-mas bookgroup; bring a book for a lucky dip, new or second hand but it's got to be something you really liked. (Btw, has anyone ever actually read their secret santa book - I haven't yet but I'm sure one day I will get round to them.)

I've dipped into the film book a bit but it hasn't quite gripped me yet - hope I'll get some more reading done (what with all the pre x-mas knitting, baking and boozing that's going on it's looking a bit shakey though...)


----------



## zora (Nov 26, 2005)

And can I get in an early recommendation for next book? I'm reading a book by a guy called Friedrich Glauser atm; it's a crime novel from the 30ies, translated from the swiss german for the first time, and I think he's completely brilliant. Some of the setting is slightly old-fashioned (in a good, transporting-you-there-way) while on the other hand it reads amazingly fresh. I think it would make a very good little January read (and there has been a demand for crime fiction before iirc), I'll bring it along and show it to you at the next meet (oh, it's also partly set in morocco *sucks up to Brainaddict* )


----------



## innit (Nov 27, 2005)

How was the bible meet then?  Are you all saved?

And please can we go to Khan's, I do like the Bonnington Cafe but somehow Khan's seems a bit more festive and it's closer to my house


----------



## zora (Nov 27, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> And please can we go to Khan's, I do like the Bonnington Cafe but somehow Khan's seems a bit more festive and it's closer to my house



I think the idea to go to Bonnington's instead came up because just a week earlier there's the official urban75 x-mas curry night at Khan's for which ten of us have signed up. Why don't you come along to that, too, then we can all have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 28, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Biskind is abit wanky in his style sometimes, i'd forgotten, but you get adept at tuning it out and skimming over (you won't miss anything - there's a pretty low points-to -page ratio, generally.)


My problem exactly.


----------



## Daff (Nov 29, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> a vegan thing?
> 
> a VEGAN thing?


It seems quite unfair that you're doing a vegan thing while I'm away!
(not that I disapprove). I'll have to check out Bonnington's sometime when I'm back (I'm in New Zealand till January).
May investigate the film book, or I'll possibly wait to get the general book group opinion first!


----------



## zora (Nov 30, 2005)

About our christmas dinner: are you still looking into booking, Citydreams, or do you want someone else to do it? 

And perhaps we should get a better idea of the actual number of people who are coming?

I'll definitely be there. Anyone else?


----------



## han (Dec 1, 2005)

I'm deffo there!


----------



## citydreams (Dec 1, 2005)

I haven't booked yet.

Time for a list?  
The Bookgroup Xmas (Vegan) Pud, 15th December
Zora
Han
Citydreams


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 1, 2005)

Me!


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 1, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Me!


meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2005)

if you're all *really* good then i'll turn up.


----------



## innit (Dec 2, 2005)

me please


----------



## Derian (Dec 2, 2005)

Me too


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 2, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> if you're all *really* good then i'll turn up.


<faints>


----------



## zora (Dec 2, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Time for a list?
> The Bookgroup Xmas (Vegan) Pud, 15th December
> Zora
> Han
> ...



Good list! Anyone else? Don't be shy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2005)

but it's vegan.


----------



## zora (Dec 3, 2005)

Zora
Han
Citydreams
Orang Utan
Spanglechick
Pickman's Model
Innit
Derian
Hollis
Onemonkey (highly probable)


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> Zora
> Han
> Citydreams
> Orang Utan
> ...


wait a minute, wait a minute...

my attendance is based on good behaviour from you lot. i'll let you know in a week if yr getting anything from santa.


----------



## Derian (Dec 3, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> wait a minute, wait a minute...
> 
> my attendance is based on good behaviour from you lot. i'll let you know in a week if yr getting anything from santa.



I'll be as perfickly behaved as always   *starts writing letter to santa*


----------



## Lysistrata (Dec 7, 2005)

I don't think I'll be able to make the meal (mums and hospitals and stuff but all is progressing well there).  I'll see if I can get hold of the book for a Christmas read.

I like the sound of Zora's crime novel.

 L


----------



## eme (Dec 8, 2005)

Zora
Han
Citydreams
Orang Utan
Spanglechick
Pickman's Model
Innit
Derian
Hollis
Onemonkey (highly probable)
(shock horror, I can make it!!!) eme


----------



## han (Dec 8, 2005)

Lysistrata said:
			
		

> I don't think I'll be able to make the meal



booooooo




			
				Lysistrata said:
			
		

> (mums and hospitals and stuff but all is progressing well there).



Good to hear that 

Eme - yay!


----------



## innit (Dec 8, 2005)

Zora
Han
Citydreams
Orang Utan
Spanglechick
Pickman's Model
Derian
Hollis
Onemonkey (highly probable)
eme

...can't make it any more


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 8, 2005)

Zora
Han
Citydreams
Orang Utan
Spanglechick
Pickman's Model
Derian
Hollis
Onemonkey (definitely)
eme
PieEye (maybe)


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2005)

innit said:
			
		

> Zora
> Han
> Citydreams
> Orang Utan
> ...


----------



## zora (Dec 9, 2005)

I gave Citydreams a little 'nudge' about the x-mas party (''You'd better get that booking sorted -mate -, or we'll all be coming round yours for a three-course-meal'' ) yesterday, and he promised to look into it today.  Thanks, Citydremas. 

Hope everything goes well for you, Lysistrata!


----------



## citydreams (Dec 9, 2005)

I'm not able to make it on Thursday


----------



## Hollis (Dec 9, 2005)

Disgraceful! So we're eating aload of vegan muck, and your not even coming..     Next year lets make it the Steak House. 

I suppose we could move the night to Wednesday if everyone doesn't have too packed 'diaries'.. I know how things are this time of year... Oh yes indeed!.. (fdsl)


----------



## innit (Dec 9, 2005)

Wednesday would be great for me  but I don't mind if others want to keep it on Thursday.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 9, 2005)

No, not Wednesday! That's the worst possible time for me - day after staff Xmas party and day before pay day!


----------



## Hollis (Dec 9, 2005)

I'm _missing_ my staff Xmas party to come to this on Thursday!!  Such is the sacrifice!


----------



## Hollis (Dec 9, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> I'm not able to make it on Thursday



So is anyone booking anything?  For someone who works in the, err, "planning" industry, I must say you appear to have made a 'right horlicks' of this one.


----------



## citydreams (Dec 9, 2005)

Well, I have the choice of keeping the whole of London happy by staying at work, or by keeping you lot happy by plying you with cheap booze.  The former seems easier some how.


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 9, 2005)

this better not descend into chaos i've just bought secret santa's present.. 

AND i've started reading this month's book


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 9, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> So is anyone booking anything?  For someone who works in the, err, "planning" industry, I must say you appear to have made a 'right horlicks' of this one.



We could always go to Khan's again - tis yummy


----------



## Hollis (Dec 9, 2005)

Don't worry - I'm sure one of the book group laydeez will be along on abit to tell us all what to do.. (thank god)


----------



## zora (Dec 10, 2005)

Hello, it's me - come along to tell you what to do: unless you hear differently, can ten of you please turn up at the *Bonnington cafe thursday 15th at 8pm*; I'll try and contact the lady who's cooking that night and check if they want us. 

Watch this space for possible changes (i.e. going round to citydreams for whole hog roast.)


----------



## zora (Dec 10, 2005)

*Thursday 15th, 8pm Bonnigton's cafe*

They'll have us. 

Bring your own meat and booze, and, of course, your secret santa   present.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2005)

yeh - people's goodness is ceasing to matter, in terms of my turning up, compared to my being paid.

i was led to believe that i'd be paid on the 15th, but this is looking increasingly unlikely.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2005)

yeh: unless an entirely unexpected and unlikely miracle occurs tomorrow, i'm going to have to duck out of this month's one as i will be penniless. not that i'm not penniless now, but i expected to be able to afford some cheap vegan fare.


----------



## Derian (Dec 13, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yeh: unless an entirely unexpected and unlikely miracle occurs tomorrow, i'm going to have to duck out of this month's one as i will be penniless. not that i'm not penniless now, but i expected to be able to afford some cheap vegan fare.


----------



## Derian (Dec 13, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> They'll have us.
> 
> Bring your own meat and booze, and, of course, your secret santa   present.



So they'll let us bring meat into a vegan place  

Just got my secret santa. Thank goodness it's secret, how hard is it to pick a book that might suit whoever gets it, tricky.

Looking forward ... every single social effort has gone out of the window in the last two weeks cos of this lurgy. Today's the first day that I genuinely feel up for going out


----------



## zora (Dec 14, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> So they'll let us bring meat into a vegan place



Sorry that was my feeble attempt at a joke.   PLease don't bring turkeys, but plenty of booze! 

Hope you can make it, Pickman's Model. And hope everyone else still can; it's tomorrow, people!


----------



## Derian (Dec 14, 2005)

zora said:
			
		

> Sorry that was my feeble attempt at a joke.   PLease don't bring turkeys, but plenty of booze!
> 
> Hope you can make it, Pickman's Model. And hope everyone else still can; it's tomorrow, people!



Curses  No chance of smuggling in some chicken in my coat pocket then


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 14, 2005)

ok - what do vegans eat for protein?  All the nicest veggie things are cheesy and eggy - i'm a bit perplexed...


----------



## Derian (Dec 14, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> ok - what do vegans eat for protein?  All the nicest veggie things are cheesy and eggy - i'm a bit perplexed...



*checks for nuts and a pulse*


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> ok - what do vegans eat for protein?  All the nicest veggie things are cheesy and eggy - i'm a bit perplexed...


tofu?

or - as i've just been told - they get it from tablets tested on animals.


----------



## citydreams (Dec 14, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> *checks for nuts and a pulse*



vegans do make the best lovers


----------



## Hollis (Dec 14, 2005)

citydreams said:
			
		

> vegans do make the best lovers



I'd genuinly be suprised if that was the case.


----------



## citydreams (Dec 14, 2005)

Let us know how you get on 

www.veggiematchmakers.com
www.vegansingles.co.uk
www.veggieromance.com


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 14, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I'd genuinly be suprised if that was the case.


my boss was telling me yesterday that he gave up being vegan after a 5 month trial because he found himself becoming too balanced, too stable, too boring


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 14, 2005)

if anyone wants to start earlier... we could meet in the beehive across the road at 6:30 or 7 pm? 

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/44/4405/Beehive/Vauxhall

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=530677&y=177967&z=0&ar=Y


----------



## eme (Dec 14, 2005)

good thing we're not going tonight, eh? - we'd clash!   

Brixton Book Group's Christmas Dinner


----------



## zora (Dec 14, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> good thing we're not going tonight, eh? - we'd clash!
> 
> Brixton Book Group's Christmas Dinner



That's weird!  Just as well that our bookgroup boasts a couple of N22 members to add a touch of diversity.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> if anyone wants to start earlier... we could meet in the beehive across the road at 6:30 or 7 pm?
> 
> http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/44/4405/Beehive/Vauxhall
> 
> http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=530677&y=177967&z=0&ar=Y


I'm up for that


----------



## Derian (Dec 15, 2005)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I'm up for that



Me too


----------



## innit (Dec 15, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> good thing we're not going tonight, eh? - we'd clash!
> 
> Brixton Book Group's Christmas Dinner


They sound a lot like us


----------



## innit (Dec 15, 2005)

Oh yeah, and this one goes out to all you h8rs who didn't like Cloud Atlast 

My mum won a competition in the guardian (well actually she was a runner up but she still got a prize so hey) for writing 100 words about a booker nominee which should have won.  She wrote about Cloud Atlas!




			
				old mother innit said:
			
		

> Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell
> David Mitchell's Cloud Atlas was the book of 2004 because it delivers everything a great book should. This apocalyptic epic effectively engages with the most fundamental issue of today: the paradoxical conflict between human greed and the desire to secure a world fit for future generations. The delight for the reader is that this comes in a thrilling and compelling package. Mitchell's creativity in his use of language compares with the best of Burgess and Hoban and his observation of the minutiae of human relationships is as moving and memorable as the sheer scope of the world he has created.



So it is about something after all


----------



## Dubversion (Dec 15, 2005)

can somebody let Pie Eye know what's going on, since i think she's still planning on attending. or PM me and i'll let her know


----------



## Derian (Dec 15, 2005)

OK, have pm'd Dub with details for Pie Eye.

Anyone else coming to the Beehive?

Yay, curry  Missed out on Khan's so looking forward ...


----------



## Hollis (Dec 15, 2005)

Just hope it aint 5 bean stew.


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 15, 2005)

Derian said:
			
		

> Anyone else coming to the Beehive?
> 
> Yay, curry


will get to beehive about 6:30

not sure if it will be curry however..


----------



## Hollis (Dec 15, 2005)

I'll be there for 7 depending on when my boss leaves.


----------



## Derian (Dec 15, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> will get to beehive about 6:30
> 
> not sure if it will be curry however..



Don't know why I thought it was curry, must've got the wrong end of the stick somewhere. Ah well, as Hollis said, as long as it's not 5 bean stew...


----------



## Hollis (Dec 15, 2005)

5 bean stew with flaky dumplings (no eggs, no milk)


----------



## Derian (Dec 15, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> 5 bean stew with flaky dumplings (no eggs, no milk)



Cheer up - it might be a nice veggie stir fry with noodles. Erm, are noodles vegan


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2005)

would this be the beehive we all know and love in brixton?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2005)

No, tis in Vauxhall - see the map that onemonkey posted.


----------



## Hollis (Dec 15, 2005)

Well as its a vegan cafe _and_ a book group event, I've decided to premier my Guaardian middle-brow leftie right-on clothing range tonight..


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Well as its a vegan cafe _and_ a book group event, I've decided to premier my Guaardian middle-brow leftie right-on clothing range tonight..


----------



## Hollis (Dec 15, 2005)

*Wow that G2s faaar outt maaannn*


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2005)




----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2005)

ooh forgot about Secret Santa - will have to dash home and get something


----------



## han (Dec 15, 2005)

I can't believe I forgot about the bookgroup meal!   

An old mate of ours from Germany turned up this afternoon and we chinwagged about life, the universe and everything all evening. Got carried away!

Sorry to be a numpty!

Look forward to seeing y'all at Offline tommorrow.

Hope you're having a good un


----------



## Hollis (Dec 16, 2005)

Well, I had a most enjoyable evening... its one of those evenings I wish could have gone on acouple hours longer..


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 16, 2005)

it was great.. i never realised that vegan food could be so enjoyable.. though i suspect most of the credit for this is due to the company and the alcohol.. 


even more amazing that we had so many agreeable choices for next months book.. picking one of them from the hat was clearly the best thing to do.. 

so next months choice (randomly selected) was her Pieness's recommendation
_
The Heart is a Lonely Hunter - Carson McCullers_

http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/authors/mccullers/


----------



## Derian (Dec 16, 2005)

It was really great and lovely to meet Eme and Pie Eye. Mmmmm vegan food


----------



## Dubversion (Dec 16, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> so next months choice (randomly selected) was her Pieness's recommendation
> _
> The Heart is a Lonely Hunter - Carson McCullers_
> 
> http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/authors/mccullers/



one of my favourite books ever.


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 16, 2005)

so will we see you on thursday, 19th Jan then?


book looks good.. i find the author strangely attractive too


----------



## Dubversion (Dec 16, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> so will we see you on thursday, 19th Jan then?



i doubt that. i wouldn't want to pollute my love with Hollis' senseless witterings


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 20, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i doubt that. i wouldn't want to pollute my love with Hollis' senseless witterings


there's a pity. 

you could have told us all about the occult.


----------



## Pieface (Dec 20, 2005)

Hello Peeps!

You guys aren't even TRYING to say what you thought about the books anymore   

No one has said that the movie book pushed by Orang Utan was a bit dull and crap - not that I'd know as I never read it.....

Anyway - january will be much much better.  For starters, I'll have read the book and for seconds so will you lot and I'll bring print outs and my Barcelona photos   

Sorted. 

I *heart * BG


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 20, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> No one has said that the movie book pushed by Orang Utan was a bit dull and crap - not that I'd know as I never read it.....


That's cos it wasn't.   
They wouldn't dare anyway


----------



## Hollis (Dec 21, 2005)

yeah - just got the book  ".. explores loneliness, the human need for understanding and our search for love".

Sounds good for boxing day.


----------



## eme (Dec 21, 2005)

I'm starting to read my Secret Santa Book! But! It is a bit hard to read! because there are so many exclamation marks!.... 

Have you seen the Penguin Podcast  btw? - you can download the whole of A Christmas Carol for free if you fancy being _read to_ instead of _reading_, over Xmas...


----------



## Derian (Dec 23, 2005)

Festive greetings to all of the Bookgroup !!

Have a wonderful time - and enjoy the New Year


----------



## han (Dec 23, 2005)

PieEye said:
			
		

> You guys aren't even TRYING to say what you thought about the books anymore



 

What IS the January book, by the way?

Not that anyone's gonna read it, mind...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 24, 2005)

some lovey-dovey thing, iirc.

but there was a general inclination towards richard fletcher's "bloodfeud: murder and revenge in anglo-saxon england" for feb.


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 26, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> some lovey-dovey thing, iirc.
> 
> but there was a general inclination towards richard fletcher's "bloodfeud: murder and revenge in anglo-saxon england" for feb.


that's a christmas lie, i believe, mr pickman's...

anyway, forgot to post these photos from the xmas meal


----------



## han (Dec 27, 2005)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> so next months choice (randomly selected) was her Pieness's recommendation
> _
> The Heart is a Lonely Hunter - Carson McCullers_
> 
> http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/authors/mccullers/



Oooh, this looks gooood 

Nice pics, Spanglechick  Was the food as scrummy as always?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 27, 2005)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> that's a christmas lie, i believe, mr pickman's...


i think you'll find it's not...


----------



## zora (Dec 28, 2005)

eme said:
			
		

> I'm starting to read my Secret Santa Book! But! It is a bit hard to read! because there are so many exclamation marks!....



Thanks! for! trying! anyway!  I know what you mean, but found the style somehow very charming.


And Spanglechick, Kameron is reading the secret santa I got from you (I'd read it already.)


----------



## onemonkey (Dec 28, 2005)

december book was a bit longwinded and dull.. at least as far as i got maybe it got better after page 150 which is where i stopped even though kevin smith was just arriving on the scene..

part of the problem was that it was only about how films where distributed.. no anecdotes at all about how they were made.. and parts of it seemed to written by an accountant.

the weinsteins were not especially loveable or especially hatable.. seemed like smaller than life 1-dimensional characters to me.. yes they are loathsome and appear to swindle everyone they can but enough people go back to them time and again and he failed to show any sympathy or respect for his subjects (if you want to read about proper charming psychopaths try barbarians at the gate) 

likewise everything said about redford was there to show his flaws

the guy even made quentin taratino boring 

couldn't see the point of the whole thing myself.. (i expect the raging bulls book would have been much better.)


----------



## Hollis (Dec 29, 2005)

This months book - excellent so far.  Won't be around on the 17th to share my thoughts though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 29, 2005)

Hollis said:
			
		

> This months book - excellent so far.  Won't be around on the 17th to share my thoughts though.


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 3, 2006)

have started the book.. enjoying it.. absolutely no idea where it's going.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 4, 2006)

*thougths..*

I can't make the february meeting also..

Is there a reason why we stick rigourously to a set date rather than chop and change.

I notice that we're about the same size as the stich and BITCH group, yet they work out dates as they go along..

.. just a thought like...

That would give us *two* things to 'ave a big argument about each month.


----------



## eme (Jan 4, 2006)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I notice that we're about the same size as the stich and BITCH group, yet they work out dates as they go along..



Getting some knitting tips, eh hollis?   

Looking at the date it's a tues (don't we meet thursdays? - would be the 19th...) or am I that much out of touch...   

Can do the 19th, but not the 17th... actionette-ing I'm afraid...


----------



## zora (Jan 4, 2006)

I've been doing quite well with the third thursday each month, thank you very much  - it's nice and easy to bear in mind in advance. And I find it quite relaxing to know what's what rather than having to wait with baited breath what result the poll will come up with, or worse, finding that the date's long been decided before I've even *seen* the thread...but that's just me, of course.


Btw, the bookshop I've ordered THIALH with hasn't received my copy yet.   Still hopeful though.


----------



## zora (Jan 4, 2006)

eme said:
			
		

> Getting some knitting tips, eh hollis?
> 
> Looking at the date it's a tues (don't we meet thursdays? - would be the 19th...) or am I that much out of touch...
> 
> Can do the 19th, but not the 17th... actionette-ing I'm afraid...



Well spotted! *Next bookgroup is on Thursday 19th*. Glad you can make it, Eme.


----------



## eme (Jan 4, 2006)

zora said:
			
		

> Btw, the bookshop I've ordered THIALH with hasn't received my copy yet.   Still hopeful though.



ditto - it was due in today but now not til next week...  

Cool it being thurs though...


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 4, 2006)

Does anyone have a spare copy of the book I could borrow, or shall I just go and steal it?


----------



## Hollis (Jan 4, 2006)

eme said:
			
		

> Getting some knitting tips, eh hollis?
> 
> Looking at the date it's a tues (don't we meet thursdays? - would be the 19th...) or am I that much out of touch...
> 
> Can do the 19th, but not the 17th... actionette-ing I'm afraid...



I lost me ball of wool.

 

Couldn't make the 17th either.. oh well.. stuff the lot of yer.._!!!_


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 4, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a spare copy of the book I could borrow, or shall I just go and steal it?


PieEye is certain to have finished reading it by time she gets back from hols.

or you can borrow mine cos they've got it in our library 

not that i _don't_ condone book theft


----------



## zora (Jan 4, 2006)

Awww, look at our little improptu bookgroup online. How cosy!   

*hands round pack of Dominosteine* ( <-german x-mas sweets, for the uninitiated)


----------



## Hollis (Jan 4, 2006)

I'll have a spare copy, but no-ones havin' it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2006)

I'm not going to have time to read it cos I'm too busy reading about Hitler and Old English.
Very poor effort to read the book again, I know, but I'm not really that motivated to be honest. I saw it in the bookshop when swapping Xmas presents and plumped for Piers Morgan's The Insider instead.    
I did have a flick through it, but it looked a bit like the kind of book that Anthony Minghella would make a very long and boring Oscar magnet out of.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 5, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> it looked a bit like the kind of book that Anthony Minghella would make a very long and boring Oscar magnet out of.


one reason why I wasn't going to spend money, or even christmas book tokens, on the thing.
also I'm tight of course


----------



## Hollis (Jan 5, 2006)

The books fantastic.. but am I going to share my opinions with you lot? Am I fuck!!


----------



## citydreams (Jan 5, 2006)

er, you just did lovey


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 6, 2006)

from Neil Gaiman's blog:





> Marcus at Blackwells wrote to let me know that I thought I'd let you know that Alan Moore has agreed to host the Moorcock event we have on the 18th January. Blackwell Charing Cross Road present an evening with Michael Moorcock, in conversation with Alan Moore. Wednesday 18 January at 7pm.
> 
> Tickets £6, concessions £4, from the shop during opening hours (9.30 - 8.00 Mon-Sat, 12.00 - 6.00 Sun) or 0845 456 9876 (Mon-Fri, 9.30 - 6.00)
> 
> I really wish I could be there. If you're in the UK, and have any desire to hear two brilliant bearded wild writing geniuses talk about fiction and magic and anarchy and music (just a wild stab in the dark, that, on the subjects) then you should be there. Trust me.



i've got my ticket, have you?


----------



## eme (Jan 6, 2006)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> from Neil Gaiman's blog:
> 
> i've got my ticket, have you?



no, but I got my book - it came in today... (and there are lots of lovely reading notes to go with it too....)


----------



## zora (Jan 7, 2006)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> from Neil Gaiman's blog:
> 
> i've got my ticket, have you?



No, but I'll probably be round his editor's house on the monday for a little 'bash', as Hollis would have it.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 9, 2006)

*just when you thought you'd never hear me say it...*

I've started the book and I really like it. Haven't got far yet but I love the style and the characters so I don't think it can go too far wrong. It reminds me a lot of John Steinbeck.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 9, 2006)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> from Neil Gaiman's blog:
> 
> i've got my ticket, have you?


Has the book changed?


----------



## Pieface (Jan 9, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I've started the book and I really like it. Haven't got far yet but I love the style and the characters so I don't think it can go too far wrong. It reminds me a lot of John Steinbeck.



Fucking YAY!

Pickman's - are you reading it?  There are social politics in it as well.  (Not that I'm pigeonholing you or anything....)

The Steinbeck similarities I get, BA - To Kill a Mockingbird too but perhaps that's just because of Mick's voice.

I think it's astonishing and it is in no way a lovey dovey story OU - are you seething from my dig at the film book?      If it's any consolation, Dub loved it and stormed through.  Did sound like basically everyone is a cunt though - in the Evil Money Making Movie Machine (Art House Dvn)

I have finished mine and can lend out if someone needs it? Spangle?  Zora? Derian?

Monkeyman - I think I may be up for this Moorcock night - but do you think I'll need to know their books?  I've only read his criticism of fantasy and a bit of Mother London and no Moore at all.  Although I've just googled him and he is the spit of Christopher SA-RU-MAN Lee - except not grey.  Looks like it could be fun.....


----------



## citydreams (Jan 9, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> I have finished mine and can lend out if someone needs it? Spangle?  Zora? Derian?
> ...




Me please Misses, er, Mrs!


----------



## Derian (Jan 9, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> I have finished mine and can lend out if someone needs it? Spangle?  Zora? Derian?



Yes please !!   

Bah. I see citydreams has nabbed it  

But, er, if someone could remind me of the title that would be most helpful


----------



## Pieface (Jan 9, 2006)

It is "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" by Carson McCullers.

Dub might have a copy I can try and get a hold of for you perhaps?  Are you a south London lady though?  Could be awkward to get otherwise.

Citydreams - I'll drop it round tonight with your anarchist book and monkeyman's tent    'Bout time they came back to you both.....


----------



## Derian (Jan 9, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> It is "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" by Carson McCullers.
> 
> Dub might have a copy I can try and get a hold of for you perhaps?  Are you a south London lady though?  Could be awkward to get otherwise.
> 
> Citydreams - I'll drop it round tonight with your anarchist book and monkeyman's tent    'Bout time they came back to you both.....



Of course * slaps forehead*   

Cheers PieEye, for the thought. I'm near Tower Bridge but I think I'll buy it tbh ... most folk seem to think it's a good read so far.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2006)

Derian said:
			
		

> most folk




have you been at *that window* again? 

does it look like we're going to have to get some more staff in this afternoon?


----------



## Derian (Jan 9, 2006)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> have you been at *that window* again?
> 
> does it look like we're going to have to get some more staff in this afternoon?



I'm conducting a private poll of passers by  One of the yes/yes variety


----------



## Derian (Jan 9, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I've started the book and I really like it. Haven't got far yet but I love the style and the characters so I don't think it can go too far wrong. It reminds me a lot of John Steinbeck.



This was the key post in my decision to fork out


----------



## Hollis (Jan 9, 2006)

Its better than Steinbeck in that it don't have the 'preachy element' (atleast not the part I've read).


----------



## trashpony (Jan 9, 2006)

Derian said:
			
		

> This was the key post in my decision to fork out



Plus, my copy has a really nice cover and is printed on very lovely stock (paper). Obviously these are key reasons for buying a book 

And there's a quote from Graham Greene in the front that says 'I prefer her to DH Lawrence because she has no message.' Which is spookily similar to the Steinbeck comment that Hollis made.

Graham Greene and Hollis - are they related?   

ps I thought I'd inflict my presence on you this month after threatening for the last three  Am loving the book


----------



## Derian (Jan 9, 2006)

Yay


----------



## Dubversion (Jan 9, 2006)

<experiences strange swell of pride that much-loved book is going down a treat>


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2006)

i've got a couple of things to get finished for the end of the week, then i'll be able to turn my attention to this lonely hunter thing.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 9, 2006)

not sure i'm going to make this... can't find the book - trashy: any chance of you finishing this by friday?


----------



## Dubversion (Jan 9, 2006)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> not sure i'm going to make this... can't find the book - trashy: any chance of you finishing this by friday?




http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-1870576-4794030

24 hour delivery


----------



## Pieface (Jan 9, 2006)

Do you want me to see if Dub has a copy and I can chuck it into the Spanglemobile as you drive past one evening?

Edit: Or do what HE says.  Anyone would think he was avoiding work.....


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 9, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Do you want me to see if Dub has a copy and I can chuck it into the Spanglemobile as you drive past one evening?
> 
> Edit: Or do what HE says.  Anyone would think he was avoiding work.....


anyone who has a copy'd be good really - could have bought it from a shop cos my new boss has given me some gift vouchers (most amazing new boss  ) but the internet don't take vouchers, innit?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 9, 2006)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> anyone who has a copy'd be good really - could have bought it from a shop cos my new boss has given me some gift vouchers (most amazing new boss  ) but the internet don't take vouchers, innit?


Books etc in Victoria Street has two copies - I'd grab you one myself, but even my debit card's gone red.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 9, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Edit: Or do what HE says.


Already he's a HE! You're not even married yet.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 9, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Books etc in Victoria Street has two copies - I'd grab you one myself, but even my debit card's gone red.


it's ok...  it won't be the first time someone didn't read the book right?


blethering croydon bookshops....


----------



## trashpony (Jan 9, 2006)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> not sure i'm going to make this... can't find the book - trashy: any chance of you finishing this by friday?



I should think so - am about halfway through. Only if you promise not to fold down the corners of the pages though


----------



## zora (Jan 9, 2006)

I'll be getting my copy tomorrow, look forward to it now: if it's only half as good as you all make out, it must be great!  

_Where_ are we meeting, btw?


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 10, 2006)

not sure.. there don't seem to be any decent RFH substitutes do there? 

meanwhile, i do solemly swear to start a new all singing/dancing bookgroup thread after this months meeting


----------



## trashpony (Jan 10, 2006)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> not sure.. there don't seem to be any decent RFH substitutes do there?
> 
> meanwhile, i do solemly swear to start a new all singing/dancing bookgroup thread after this months meeting



What about upstairs (or a back room) in a pub? Or is that just tooo down-market for the high-falutin bookgroup?


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 10, 2006)

trashpony said:
			
		

> What about upstairs (or a back room) in a pub? Or is that just tooo down-market for the high-falutin bookgroup?


 The advantage of the RFH was we could bring our own drinks - pubs are too upmarket for the bookgroup is the problem.


----------



## Pieface (Jan 10, 2006)

Let's go to your house then


----------



## Dubversion (Jan 10, 2006)

*Sounds like you'll be meeting in a bus shelter*

the aftermath of a particularly heated argument between Hollis and Pie Face about painterly descriptions in 18th century French fiction:


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 10, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Let's go to your house then


 Well I was going to suggest it, but can't really without consulting my housemates. Also, they're likely to come barging in making ill-informed comments that will lower the tone further than hollis already does


----------



## Dubversion (Jan 10, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Well I was going to suggest it, but can't really without consulting my housemates. Also, they're likely to come barging in making ill-informed comments that will lower the tone further than hollis already does









_new technology is being used to seek out a lower tone than that achieved by Hollis._


----------



## Hollis (Jan 10, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Also, they're likely to come barging in *making ill-informed comments* that will lower the tone further than hollis already does




This coming from the man who reads a criticism of the book, rather than the book itself....


  

What do I care anyway..


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 10, 2006)

Hollis said:
			
		

> This coming from the man who reads a criticism of the book, rather than the book itself....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 But it was Graham Greene for gods sake. That doesn't count.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 10, 2006)

Not only that.. but the criticism was total rubbish.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 10, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> But it was Graham Greene for gods sake. That doesn't count.


really considered and well thought out literary criticism there...


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 11, 2006)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> really considered and well thought out literary criticism there...


 twas a jokey reference to long conversations we've already had on the topic, not an attempt at criticism


----------



## han (Jan 14, 2006)

Just bought the book, it looks very good, am just about to start it, think it's gonna be a good un


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 16, 2006)

unable to make bookgroup on thurs due to fuckwitt'd late night meeting in ctl london.  

so, i'll be putting bloodfeud forward in february for the march book. unless some kind soul wants to do the decent thing for me.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 16, 2006)

ok - thanks to trashy lending me her own unfinished copy, and getting another from the library for her to read...  i'm 100 pages in, and loving it.  

but ahem...

where are we meeting?​


----------



## zora (Jan 17, 2006)

I had reservations about the book - mainly because I confused the author with Colleen 'Thorn Birds' McCullough (*resigns* ), but have now read nearly 200 pages and like it. A lot.


----------



## trashpony (Jan 17, 2006)

zora said:
			
		

> I had reservations about the book - mainly because I confused the author with Colleen 'Thorn Birds' McCullough (*resigns* ), but have now read nearly 200 pages and like it. A lot.


----------



## han (Jan 17, 2006)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> ok - thanks to trashy lending me her own unfinished copy, and getting another from the library for her to read...  i'm 100 pages in, and loving it.
> 
> but ahem...
> 
> where are we meeting?​



we don't know yet


----------



## han (Jan 17, 2006)

Well I've read the first three pages. Thoroughly enjoying it!  

Good choice, Pie!


----------



## tcook (Jan 17, 2006)

*spam URL removed*

I've recently become a member here and don't really have the protocol down to a fine art so forgive me if I go on a bit.

<clearly you don't have the protocol down to a fine art; don't spam your site here - FM>


----------



## trashpony (Jan 17, 2006)

Don't you go spamming our bookgroup thread


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 18, 2006)

Well here's an unlikely confluence of events:

(a) I've finished the book.

(b) I really like it.

You probably thought that would never happen didn't you? The truth is, I *like* books  They just have to be good ones


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 18, 2006)

Right, I've got the agreement of two other people in my house so far, which with myself makes a majority , so in the absence of other suggestions I'm going to say that if people want to meet at my place then lets do that.

Most of you probably know where it is - PM me if you don't.


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 18, 2006)

cool.. will be there 

what time?


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 18, 2006)

Um, time - I'm not sure when I finish work actually - how about anytime after 6.30?

Edit: Just discovered I finish at 6 tomorrow, so 6.30 is cutting it a bit fine. Let's say 7o'clock to be on the safe side.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 18, 2006)

couldn't give a toss.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 18, 2006)

Hollis said:
			
		

> couldn't give a toss.


there's a novelty!


----------



## zora (Jan 18, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Right, I've got the agreement of two other people in my house so far, which with myself makes a majority , so in the absence of other suggestions I'm going to say that if people want to meet at my place then lets do that.
> 
> Most of you probably know where it is - PM me if you don't.



Cool! Thanks for hosting.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm working til 8 tomorrow and haven't read the book - any point in me turning up?


----------



## zora (Jan 18, 2006)

Gwan! You know you can always come along just for the fine wines and cheeses.


----------



## eme (Jan 18, 2006)

Hollis said:
			
		

> couldn't give a toss.






			
				Orang Utan said:
			
		

> any point in me turning up?



ooohh the positivity!   
Looking forward tho this - haven't been to bg for aaaaaaages...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 18, 2006)

zora said:
			
		

> Gwan! You know you can always come along just for the fine wines and cheeses.


Well yes, I just didn't want to crash in just as everyone was leaving, esp in a private home.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 18, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I'm working til 8 tomorrow and haven't read the book - any point in me turning up?


i shall also be late and have only read some of the book - i'm still going.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 19, 2006)

eme said:
			
		

> ooohh the positivity! ...



whats there to be positive about?


----------



## citydreams (Jan 19, 2006)




----------



## Derian (Jan 19, 2006)

I'm going to have to pass on this too. Combination of close friend having emergency surgery and mega (unpaid) workload this week = stressed, tired, unsociable, no money and haven't read book. Next time  

Hope you enjoyed your jaunt to Morocco Brainaddict.


----------



## zora (Jan 19, 2006)

That's a shame, Derian.  You look after yourself!


----------



## Hollis (Jan 19, 2006)

Btw - despite being spurned by the bookgroup I have asked the editor to add the meetings to the calender.


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

Derian said:
			
		

> I'm going to have to pass on this too. Combination of close friend having emergency surgery and mega (unpaid) workload this week = stressed, tired, unsociable, no money and haven't read book. Next time



boooo 

Take care matie.

Well I have read about 10 pages of this book (luvin it luvin it luvin it) and am lookin' forward to seeing y'all. I am determined to be a better BG attendee this year!  Ta for hosting, Brainaddict.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Well yes, I just didn't want to crash in just as everyone was leaving, esp in a private home.


 If you arrive and everyone leaves, don't go thinking it's a coincidence will you?

Anyway, it's not exactly a private home - it's an urban home, so no one will mind


----------



## Hollis (Jan 19, 2006)

*Exciting'*

You will be delighted to know that the dates for ALL bookgroups this year are now in the Events Diary.

Details such as location and the book can be added as and when they are decided upon.


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

ooh ooh! 

*hopp* *skipp*


----------



## citydreams (Jan 19, 2006)

Does anyone want to post a choice for next month so we can discuss it later tonight?

I'd be up for reading another McCullers.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Does anyone want to post a choice for next month so we can discuss it later tonight?
> 
> I'd be up for reading another McCullers.


 I don't think we should go down the path of repeating an author like that - it might end up with us reading the whole of Remembrance of Things Past in monthly installments or something...

I propose Tropic of Cancer by Henry Miller


----------



## Hollis (Jan 19, 2006)

I think the 'lucky dip' approach adopted last month worked quite well..


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

I want to read The Man In The High Castle by Philip K Dick


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I want to read The Man In The High Castle by Philip K Dick


 is that a joke?


----------



## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> is that a joke?



I hope so or this is going to be my first and last appearance


----------



## Dubversion (Jan 19, 2006)

Hollis said:
			
		

> I think the 'lucky dip' approach adopted last month worked quite well..




<hollis realises that 'chance' is the only way his book about 'Bomber' Harris will ever get picked>


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> is that a joke?



No? Why that kind of reaction? Is it that bad?
It's supposed to be his best.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

trashpony said:
			
		

> I hope so or this is going to be my first and last appearance


Why?


----------



## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Why?



Because its sci-fi isn't it? I don't like sci-fi. I have an inability to suspend belief.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> No? Why that kind of reaction? Is it that bad?
> It's supposed to be his best.


 I'm pretty sure we did it last year, when you were a member of the group. No?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

trashpony said:
			
		

> Because its sci-fi isn't it? I don't like sci-fi. I have an inability to suspend belief.


You can't really describe Dick as merely sci-fi. I don't really like that label to be honest as it ghettoises some great fiction.
Most sci fi is shit just like most fiction, but please don't write something off just cos it's labelled as sci-fi.
So is any kind of genre fiction a no-no?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure we did it last year, when you were a member of the group. No?


Nope


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 19, 2006)

yep,  we did it in April 2004


----------



## onemonkey (Jan 19, 2006)

you could read this for tonight if you like 

http://www.philipkdickfans.com/weirdo.htm


----------



## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> You can't really describe Dick as merely sci-fi. I don't really like that label to be honest as it ghettoises some great fiction



Fair enough. It's my knee-jerk reaction and it's not very open-minded I admit.  And this is exactly why I wanted to come along anyway - to read stuff I wouldn't normally.

So my apologies.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> yep,  we did it in April 2004


Ah OK - I wasn't a member yet - what did people think of it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

trashpony said:
			
		

> Fair enough. It's my knee-jerk reaction and it's not very open-minded I admit.  And this is exactly why I wanted to come along anyway - to read stuff I wouldn't normally.
> 
> So my apologies.


No need to apologise - I'm a great one for writing off entire genres cos I don't like the look of them - after all I wrote off the McCullers cos I'm not keen on whimsical Americana.


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

Perhaps we could read 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist' in March? I've always wanted to read that, and it's a really important book that is the pillar of the union movement   (It's no. 72 on The Big Read )!  

What about reading some <shock horror> Bronte or something?

An Eng. Lit. classic would be nice, for a change...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

Nooooo! It's sentimental trash! (Ragged Trousered thingies)


Wuthering Heights would be a good choice though


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

A Murakami?


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> A Murakami?


 Falls within 'things we're likely to read anyway' doesn't it? which we're meant to avoid, by some rule made up by someone sometime. not that I'd mind. He's one of the best living authors as far as I'm concerned.

sorry btw, hadn't realised TMITHC predated your entry to the bookgroup. You're such a newbie.


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Nooooo! It's sentimental trash! (Ragged Trousered thingies



Is it?!

But it was the inspiration for generations of workers who stood up for their rights!


----------



## Pieface (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Falls within 'things we're likely to read anyway' doesn't it? which we're meant to avoid, by some rule made up by someone sometime. not that I'd mind. He's one of the best living authors as far as I'm concerned.
> .



It's turning into _quite _ your year isn't it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Falls within 'things we're likely to read anyway' doesn't it? which we're meant to avoid, by some rule made up by someone sometime. not that I'd mind.


I wasn't aware of any such rule. All the things we suggest are things we're likely to read - that's why we pick 'em, surely?


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> You're such a newbie.



hahahha! ahahahaha ha ha!

Who remembers when we read Kitchen by Banana Yoshimoto then, eh? EH?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

han said:
			
		

> But it was the inspiration for generations of workers who stood up for their rights!



Being sentimental trash is probably the reason why the hoi polloi liked it and I, an effete middle-class aesthete didn't


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I wasn't aware of any such rule. All the things we suggest are things we're likely to read - that's why we pick 'em, surely?


 well, not a rule exactly, more like what you'd call a guideline, as one of the pirates said.


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Which is probably why they liked it and I, an effete middle-class aesthete didn't



 

Surely you must EMPATHISE with the proles, even if you're not one?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

han said:
			
		

> Surely you must EMPATHISE with the proles, even if you're not one?


Yes, I feel very sorry for them.
Poor poor people.


----------



## Hollis (Jan 19, 2006)

han said:
			
		

> Perhaps we could read 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist' in March? I've always wanted to read that, and it's a really important book that is the pillar of the union movement



Sounds like a really good reason not to read it.  I can't stand stuff biggin' up the working class.


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Yes, I feel very sorry for them.
> Poor poor people.



Yes, terribly sad. TERRIBLY.







slurrrp


----------



## han (Jan 19, 2006)

Hollis said:
			
		

> Sounds like a really good reason not to read it.  I can't stand stuff biggin' up the working class.



jesus wept  

Would you rather read Debrett's Peerage and Baronettage, then? 

Bet that's a right page turner.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

han said:
			
		

> Would you rather read Debrett's Peerage and Baronettage, then?


I wouldn't mind actually.
I have read Barbara Cartland's Book Of Etiquette and it's a hoot


----------



## citydreams (Jan 19, 2006)

Has anyone read any Armistead Maupen?


----------



## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Has anyone read any Armistead Maupen?



All of them. Several times 

But I'm happy to read them again


----------



## Dubversion (Jan 19, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Has anyone read any Armistead Maupen?




they'll tear to you pieces, CD, don't do it


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Has anyone read any Armistead Maupen?


Fuck off


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Has anyone read any Armistead Maupen?


 Yes. And what a waste of two hours of my life that was. I nearly went looking for a refund.

see, back to my old self now


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

That comes with a cheeky wink of course.


----------



## Dubversion (Jan 19, 2006)

told ya


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## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Fuck off


 

succinctly put there Orange One.


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## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

This is going to be fun. Isn't it?


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## Dubversion (Jan 19, 2006)

i know it's a little cheeky, since i'm not a book groupie (?) but i LOVE this thread


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## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

How about Sven Hassel? 
I'm sure Hollis would be keen.


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## Pieface (Jan 19, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Has anyone read any Armistead Maupen?



Bless you.

I tried this once - at the somewhat tense BG curry of 2004.  Where I was lambasted for giving away the ending of the Moonstone because people hadn't finished it in time for the meeting, rendering those that had read it unable to talk freely   

And then I brought up the New York Trilogy and Brainy got that tic he gets when somewhen mentions a novel that might make it onto Oprah's Book Club list.

Ouch.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

trashpony said:
			
		

> This is going to be fun. Isn't it?


Don't be sad - it's fun!


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## Pieface (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Don't be sad - it's fun!



Don't be fun, it's sad


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## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> How about Sven Hassel?
> I'm sure Hollis would be keen.


 Fuck off


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## Dubversion (Jan 19, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> And then I brought up the New York Trilogy and Brainy got that tic he gets when somewhen mentions a novel that might make it onto Oprah's Book Club list.




ooh..


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## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Fuck off


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## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> and Brainy got that tic he gets when somewhen mentions a novel that might make it onto Oprah's Book Club list.


Hey, I like The Corrections damn you. Admittedly I also like his principled refusal to have Oprah's name plastered all over his front cover...

Besides, Paul Auster creates tics in my expressions that no one else does  

Edit: if you can believe it someone managed to convince me to read a second Paul Auster - this was long after that dinner when I probably swore never to touch his works again. So I read it, and in contrast to the overwhelming sense of futility I'd got from the first one I read, I was rewarded with a sense of overwhelming futility. I should learn to go with my instincts.


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## Pieface (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Admittedly I also like his principled refusal to have Oprah's name plastered all over his front cover...



And admittedly I spazzed out when I bought a book the other week, got it home and realised it was an Oprah's book club choice   

It's so damn _ugly _ to have that plastered on it and it totally ruins my innate sense of superiority.


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## han (Jan 19, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> It's so damn _ugly _ to have that plastered on it and it totally ruins my innate sense of superiority.



I know, I tried to pick it off and I realised that it was printed on the front cover!!!!!

<whispers>the horror


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## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

han said:
			
		

> I know, I tried to pick it off and I realised that it was printed on the front page!!!!!
> 
> <whispers>the horror



Richard and Judy's recommendations are possibly even worse but I think you can peel the sticker off


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## Pieface (Jan 19, 2006)

Can the font of shame get any smaller?


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## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> And admittedly I spazzed out when I bought a book the other week, got it home and realised it was an Oprah's book club choice
> 
> It's so damn _ugly _ to have that plastered on it and it totally ruins my innate sense of superiority.


 Actually I thought it was a bit snobby when I first heard about it but when I read his explanation it seemed to make sense. I think in the end it wasn't him that refused anyway but Oprah who decided to change the choice after he complained, because she considered him an ungrateful whelp who ought to cum at the idea of being promoted by the mighty Oprah.


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## Pieface (Jan 19, 2006)

Course it's snobby    

What were the reasons then?  Did he have enough cash already?


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## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

He didn't want the plebs reading it.
Now wrong with that sentiment.
I would hate to be a famous author accosted for his autogrpaph by a burly tattooed yellow-eyed workman.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

May I repeat last month's nomination ofRiddley Walker?


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## Dubversion (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> He didn't want the plebs reading it.
> Now wrong with that sentiment.
> I would hate to be a famous author accosted for his autogrpaph by a burly tattooed yellow-eyed workman.



well i don't suppose there's much call for your type of romantic fiction among that demographic


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## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> He didn't want the plebs reading it.
> Now wrong with that sentiment.
> I would hate to be a famous author accosted for his autogrpaph by a burly tattooed yellow-eyed workman.


 http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/2001-10-25-franzen.htm

All he actually did was make some comments that he probably should have kept to himself but that I find pretty understandable.


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## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

PieEye said:
			
		

> Can the font of shame get any smaller?



No but you can go pale


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## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> well i don't suppose there's much call for your type of romantic fiction among that demographic


They love it as it happens. Lorry drivers have approached me in tears to thank me. That's why I gave up. I found it hard to disguise my revulsion.


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## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> May I repeat last month's nomination ofRiddley Walker?


 for a moment there I thought you were suggesting a book written by Will Self  Though the fact he introduces the book is a demerit already. Looks an interesting book though.


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## trashpony (Jan 19, 2006)

Incidentally, the copy of THIALH that I've got has a photo of Ms McCullers on the front. She doesn't look much fun either


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## Pieface (Jan 19, 2006)

Ah - so Franzen was really just objecting on the grounds of the jacket being defaced by this logo?

I can understand that - like he says it's his "little moment".  Seems he wouldn't have been worried about it if there was no stamp on the cover.  It's the stamp thing that brought this kneejerk reaction about in me too - give it support but I like book covers looking like they're supposed to.  I'm the same about CD cases - always try and take the stickers off (and fail and get that nasty white shit everywhere   )


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## Brainaddict (Jan 19, 2006)

funnily enough, a search for Franzen and Oprah turns up a page still on Oprah's site about The Corrections, saying that it was a book of the month.

like I say, I can sympathise with JF, particularly on the logo, but he would have been wise to keep the comments to himself and just bite the bullet on the logo - i would have done - think of all the moolah!


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## citydreams (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> May I repeat last month's nomination ofRiddley Walker?



Cool. I'm a fan of Russell Hoban.


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## Hollis (Jan 19, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Cool. I'm a fan of Russell Hoban.



Sounds great!!


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## onemonkey (Jan 19, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Falls within 'things we're likely to read anyway' doesn't it? which we're meant to avoid, by some rule made up by someone sometime. not that I'd mind. He's one of the best living authors as far as I'm concerned.


word 


and i wasn't a member then but think book group did a Murakami for it first book ever..


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## onemonkey (Jan 19, 2006)

han said:
			
		

> hahahha! ahahahaha ha ha!
> 
> Who remembers when we read Kitchen by Banana Yoshimoto then, eh? EH?


oops.. that was the first choice 

at my suggestion i'll have you know 

maybe we haven't done murakami yet. but still agree he's a bit too 'obvious' a choice


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## onemonkey (Jan 19, 2006)

how about some Kyril Bonfiglioli ? 

he is very funny and the review makes me think he might appeal to certain factions within BG


> Don't Point That Thing at Me
> by Kyril Bonfiglioli
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pickman's model (Jan 19, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> May I repeat last month's nomination ofRiddley Walker?


you may. and i expect people to pay as much attention as they did last month.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 19, 2006)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> you may. and i expect people to pay as much attention as they did last month.


Good - people seemed interested


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## zora (Jan 20, 2006)

*That was great!*

Fantastic turnout, LOTS of fine wines (ouch!), cheeses, and a carrot. 

And lots and lots of discussion of a book that everyone liked and -shock horror- most people actually read! Unfortunately nooone really believed in my 'happy end'  interpretation of the story in which Mick's spirit isn't entirely broken, Jake might have learned something about getting together with people and putting aside differences through his meeting with Doctor Copeland, and the Doctor himself will find some peace of mind among the peach trees...Okay, written down it does look a bit far fetched.  



Big thanks again to Brainaddict and the rest of NU-urban towers for having us.


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## Brainaddict (Jan 20, 2006)

zora said:
			
		

> Fantastic turnout, LOTS of fine wines (ouch!), cheeses, and a carrot.
> 
> And lots and lots of discussion of a book that everyone liked and -shock horror- most people actually read! Unfortunately nooone really believed in my 'happy end'  interpretation of the story in which Mick's spirit isn't entirely broken, Jake might have learned something about getting together with people and putting aside differences through his meeting with Doctor Copeland, and the Doctor himself will find some peace of mind among the peach trees...Okay, written down it does look a bit far fetched.
> 
> ...


 You're a real optimist aren't you?  

Was a pleasure to have you all - glad you liked the shisha Han.

Tragically Nu-urban Towers is going to be sold out from under us by the landlord in about six months time, so its happy days as an urban gathering place are numbered


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## trashpony (Jan 20, 2006)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> Tragically Nu-urban Towers is going to be sold out from under us by the landlord in about six months time, so its happy days as an urban gathering place are numbered





That's a real shame. I hope they respect the toilet ...

Thanks very much for hosting - twas most kind


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## citydreams (Jan 20, 2006)

Cheers Brainy.  Your lounge was perfect for our bookish needs.     

Onemonkey and I adopted a deaf mute on the way home.  

What's the next book?


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## Brainaddict (Jan 20, 2006)

This months book is Wide Sargasso Sea, by someone whose name I've deliberately forgotten


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## trashpony (Jan 20, 2006)

citydreams said:
			
		

> Cheers Brainy.  Your lounge was perfect for our bookish needs.
> 
> Onemonkey and I adopted a deaf mute on the way home.
> 
> What's the next book?





Did you think he had a uniquely deep understanding of the world?

Wide Sargasso Sea is by Jean Rhys


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## Pieface (Jan 20, 2006)

*Hey People - Let's Connect....*

That was topper!  

Really enjoyed the discussion, although I wasn't feeling the optimism either, Zora - sorry   

The bleakness of our miserable human condition was forced home by the failure of every single character to forge a meaningful connection with another human being.  Even the ones that had meaningful relationships with ideals or art (the Doc, Jake and Mick) failed to use them and fulfil themselves.  And there were so many false starts - Mick and Harry _nearly  _  achieving a true friendship until dumb old sex got in the way and Mick's little brother with the singular personality ends up withdrawing into himself after loving someone a little _too _ much (although she deserved a bullet really)

So being lent an introduction to Humanism by onemonkey was a fitting end to that meeting    But dammit she can write!  Singer and Mick are now favourite characters that I'll remember for years to come.

So onto Jean Rhys - and Brainy back to his curmudgeonly self   .  I'll quickly re-read my copy and someone can borrow if they want?  I think it's a pretty short book.

(Btw - I just told Dub about that Henson tribute film and nearly started crying at work onemonkey.  That's twice in a week that puppets have made me tearful)


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## onemonkey (Jan 20, 2006)

muppets overtime can be found here..

http://www.mostlymuppet.com/muppets-overtime/


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## Pieface (Jan 20, 2006)

Jim and the kermits...

Edit - onemonkey - is it broken?  Can't get it to play?


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## onemonkey (Jan 20, 2006)

you might just need patience.. takes a while to download.. 

or try this link..

http://www.ourmedia.org/node/106800


by the way those are all CGI kermits and are based on the original kermit jim henson used in a nightclub act for adults


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## Dubversion (Jan 20, 2006)

so is THIALH the most loved Bookgroup book yet then? I'd be dead chuffed if it were


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## Pieface (Jan 20, 2006)

*sniff*

there I go again   

Cheers monkey


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## Biddlybee (Jan 20, 2006)

trashpony said:
			
		

> Wide Sargasso Sea is by Jean Rhys


Might go get this at the weekend, if you reckon you can squeeze a little Bee into the BG?


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## onemonkey (Jan 20, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> so is THIALH the most loved Bookgroup book yet then? I'd be dead chuffed if it were


no.. but don't feel too bad because i am sure you will approve as that honour belongs to _the corrections_


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## Dubversion (Jan 20, 2006)

onemonkey said:
			
		

> no.. but don't feel too bad because i am sure you will approve as that honour belongs to _the corrections_




really? i thought that was more mixed. but either way, 

and that muppet thing? i BLUBBED


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## trashpony (Jan 20, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> really? i thought that was more mixed. but either way,
> 
> and that muppet thing? i BLUBBED



I only dared to look out the corner of my eye 

Saving my blubbing for the privacy of my own home. Damn that onemonkey


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## han (Jan 21, 2006)

thanx for hosting, Brainaddict and NU-urban 

Luvverly evening.  Sorry to hear about your house! 

Sounds like a good choice for this month. Jan went 'bleeeurrgh' when I mentioned Lolita was on the list, she went 'eerrrr, creepy old man'...(the author)


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## han (Jan 21, 2006)

thread unstuck....bye bye old thread!


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## han (Jan 21, 2006)

hello new thread


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