# List of those for whom Welfare Reform and cuts were too much to bear



## Frankie Jack (Jul 7, 2012)

In no specific date order and taken from links I had saved. 

There are possibly many others out there and the list will need updating as more are affected. 

Paul Wilcoxson.  June 2011
A MAN with mental health problems who was worried about benefit cuts killed himself while he was searching for a job on the south coast, an inquest heard.

Craig Monk  Feb 2012
A MAN who had “significant worries” was found hanging in his home by a neighbour, a Burnley inquest heard.

Mark Higgins  March 2012
Mr Higgins, 22, had been sectioned under the mental health act a week earlier and had been sent to the Brooker Centre in Runcorn as there was not enough room for him at Leigh Infirmary

Joseph Palmer 20 Mar 2012
Two years before Mr Palmer’s death his benefit was re-assessed, which threw him into a “bit of a panic” as he was not sure where his income would come from, she said.

Martin Rust April 2012
Martin Rust, 36, was declared fit to work following a Department of Work and Pensions assessment in September, two months before he was found dead at his home in Parmentergate Court in the city centre on November 21.


Richard Sanderson 29th May 2011
A desperate man who lined up three kitchen knives before stabbing himself twice in the heart, blamed cuts in housing benefit.
Unemployed Richard Sanderson took his own life after writing three suicide notes which were laid out neatly on a bed in a meticulously planned act.

Paul Reekie June 2010
The Leith-based writer and poet, who was 48, left no suicide note but friends say letters informing him that his welfare benefits were to be halted were found close to his body.

Christelle Pardo, child and unborn child
Christelle was desperate and applied to take the DWP to tribunal, but repeatedly failed to be given a date for a hearing. She and her baby were by now sharing her sister's one-bedroom flat. Her last attempt to get a date from the tribunal service took place on 12 June. Her sister told the inquest how stressed Christelle was by having nothing to live on. The next day she took her five-month-old son in her arms and jumped to her death from the flat's sixth-floor balcony. Her son died in hospital some hours later.

Elaine Christian Feb 2011
A WOMAN found dead in a drain had been worried about attending a medical appointment to assess disability benefits, an inquest heard.
The body of Elaine Christian, 57, was found in Holderness Drain by a mother returning from a school run.

David and Helen Mullins Nov 2011
Mark and Helen Mullins were found lying side by side in their home in Henson Road, Bedworth.
Friends have spoken of the tragic couple’s struggle to access the correct benefits – leaving them living “hand to mouth” on food handouts from a Coventry soup kitchen which they walked five miles to each week.

Unknown Sister
We learnt that she had attended the job centre on a number of occasions asking for help and had also asked her doctor for a sick note but was refused. In her desperation she became frantic, the doctor then phoned the police and said she would commit her under the mental health act.  She was held for a night in a prison cell because of an argument over a sick note

Sandra Moon August 2008
“In the days leading up to her death, Sandra started suffering from stomach pains and had also been extremely upset due to a tribunal regarding her incapacity benefit, as this had been taken off her.

Christopher Charles Harness. Dec 2011  
An inquest at Louth Sessions House, was told Mr Harness was looked after at The Beeches by carer Lorraine Ruth Jones, but his mental state had deteriorated after hearing his funding was to be withdrawn.



Non suicide deaths Work Capability Assessment related.

Larry Newman Oct 2010
Larry Newman was assessed by an Atos staff member and awarded zero points. To qualify for sickness benefit he needed 15. He died from lung problems soon after

David Groves May 2011 Heart attack.
 A DAD-of-two was killed by the stress of facing the Government’s tough new medical test for benefit claimants, say his grieving family.

Karen Sherlock 29th April 2012
_“We need to be passionate about standing up for our rights, and if we can make enough noise, and get enough people to listen then we can overturn the inhumane changes this parasitic government have made. If nothing else, we do still have hope and our rights on our side.”_

Mark Scott Jan 2012
A DAD whose son died of pneumonia just six weeks after his incapacity benefits were axed is fighting to have the decision overturned.
Mark Scott, 46, who suffered from anxiety, epilepsy and chronic alcoholism, was left penniless when jobcentre doctors said he was fit to work.

Unknown Ladys husband
My late husband was 3 months from being eligable for pension credit.
He had depression for which he was certificated by his GP and a heart condition.
He started claiming ESA in Feb 09.
During that period he was assessed by Atos who scored him at 0 points
He appealed and this was reviewed and upheld. He did not do the next appeal he died before then.

Paul Turner April 2012
A BIRMINGHAM dad died from a serious heart condition – weeks after Government assessors stopped his benefits and ruled he was fit for work.




Fit to work?

Paul Mickleburgh
ONE of the world's longest surviving kidney dialysis patients has hit out at the UK Government's "Nazi" tactics after being declared fit to work in a scheme designed to get more people off incapacity benefit.

Paul Mickleburgh, 53, has undergone a series of operations over the past 33 years, including four failed transplants, and has suffered 14 heart attacks.

Gary Hulme
AN ARTHRITIS sufferer who struggles to dress himself and cannot walk unaided is being backed by medics after seeing his benefits slashed.
Former warehouse worker Gary Hulme, of Blurton, says he has been left in financial turmoil after seeing his Disability Living Allowance (DLA) package cut from £460 per month to £75.

Unknown lady
I visited a client yesterday on a psychiatric ward.
She had been contacted by ATOS regarding a medical. Her response to this was to slice her own throat open in front of her family.



Driven to despair

Set himself on fire outside Jobcentre.
The 48 year old man tied himself to the railings at the building in Harborne Lane, Selly Oak, before ripping his one of his trouser legs and starting a fire



Slashed wrists inside Jobcentre.
A MAN was in hospital after slashing his wrists at a job centre in Merseyside.
Emergency services were called to the scene at the Jobcentre Plus, in Price Street, Birkenhead, yesterday afternoon.


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## ericjarvis (Jul 7, 2012)

Not got any to add, but just want to say thank you for starting this thread.


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## yield (Jul 7, 2012)

Grim thing there Frankie Jack. Well worth posting.

Just the tip of the iceberg going by the calls I get at the council out of hours.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jul 7, 2012)

gut feeling is a memorial event somewhere public should be organised.

can't help thinking the authorities will respond with lots of plods with sticks and dogs


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## treelover (Jul 7, 2012)

There is a memorial in London to the guy who killed himself crashing into the gates of Number 10 when Thatcher was PM and subsequently to all her victims, sadly i think it has been more or less forgotten, do Londoners put flowers on it?


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## BigTom (Jul 7, 2012)

Christopher Charles Harness, July 2012
A MAN with a history of mental health issues hanged himself while on leave from a treatment centre, an inquest has heard.

Christopher Charles Harness' body was discovered on December 10, 2011, on a public footpath near to The Beeches care home in South Elkington where he had lived for six years.
Mr Harness, 39, was a patient at the Peter Hodgkinson Centre in Lincoln at the time.

An inquest at Louth Sessions House, was told Mr Harness was looked after at The Beeches by carer Lorraine Ruth Jones, but his mental state had deteriorated after hearing his funding was to be withdrawn.

In a statement, Mrs Jones, said: "There were no real problems until our local authority decided he should live more independently and my funding would be stopped."

Wayne Grew, March 2012
A DOTING dad was found hanging from a tree after learning his job as a Birmingham City Council dustbin wagon driver was at risk, an inquest heard.

Depressed Wayne Grew, of Loynells Road, Rubery, was found on parkland near Queen Elizabeth Road in Frankley, on March 4 last year.

His wife Lisa, 39, told how his health deteriorated after being told his job with the local authority was at threat. She said Mr Grew had been “fit and healthy” and a “lad’s lad” before he got a text message four months before his death saying there was to be “an emergency meeting over redundancies at work”.

Mrs Grew’s statement said: “After reading the text he became anxious and started vomiting. He thought he would lose his house, me and his children.”


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## Bernie Gunther (Jul 7, 2012)

treelover said:


> There is a memorial in London to the guy who killed himself crashing into the gates of Number 10 when Thatcher was PM and subsequently to all her victims, sadly i think it has been more or less forgotten, do Londoners put flowers on it?


 
I'd never heard of that. Was it under similar circumstances to the above?

Do you have more info?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 7, 2012)

Nice work Frankie.  Thanks for doing this.  Think as and when they come in, for as long as you're able to edit (which isn't that long unfortunately), any others should also be added to the OP.

I read of another one today but buggered if I can find it


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## treelover (Jul 7, 2012)

Some twat on my local fora is posting that if you can post on a board you can work, he has even accused long standing posters of being on DLA and thus swinging the lead, the weird thing is he has got disabilities himself but works, imo, its a form of hate speech and will scare people off posting...


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## Frankie Jack (Jul 7, 2012)

No probs folks. Just glad I got it done as pooter is seriously at it just now. I'll add to the OP as long as I can minnie and perhaps one of the lovely mods will assist when I can't edit anymore.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 7, 2012)

treelover said:


> Some twat on my local fora is posting that if you can post on a board you can work, he has even accused long standing posters of being on DLA and thus swinging the lead, the weird thing is he has got disabilities himself but works, imo, its a form of hate speech and will scare people off posting...


 
Have you told him that you can still work and claim DLA and explained the difference between DLA and IB?


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## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2012)

Driven to dispair
Vicky Harrison (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1267953/Job-seeker-Vicky-Harrison-commits-suicide-rejected-200-jobs.html)
21-yr old committed suicide after being rejected from 200 jobs.


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## treelover (Jul 7, 2012)

The Mods deleted the thread after complaints(inc mine!)


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 7, 2012)

treelover said:


> The Mods deleted the thread after complaints(inc mine!)


 


Are you going to tell us which forum it is or is it a secret?


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## treelover (Jul 7, 2012)

just a local one, I think this sort of thing, accusing posters of being on benefits to invalidate them is common, though they do get some ferocious responses...


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## frogwoman (Jul 7, 2012)

treelover said:


> Some twat on my local fora is posting that if you can post on a board you can work, he has even accused long standing posters of being on DLA and thus swinging the lead, the weird thing is he has got disabilities himself but works, imo, its a form of hate speech and will scare people off posting...


remember that we are many and they are few. x


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 7, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> Mark Scott Jan 2012
> A DAD whose son died of pneumonia just six weeks after his incapacity benefits were axed is fighting to have the decision overturned. Mark Scott, 46, who suffered from anxiety, epilepsy and chronic alcoholism, was left penniless when jobcentre doctors said he was fit to work.


 
Update:

A DAD whose son died just six weeks after wrongly being stripped of his incapacity benefits today said he blamed the government for his death. Mark Scott, 46, was deemed fit to work by job centre doctors despite GP records showing he suffered severe anxiety, panic attacks and alcoholism.  He died in his Southport flat in January from pneumonia.

*Yesterday, an independent tribunal ruled the department of work and pensions’ (DWP) decision to stop Mr Scott’s employment support allowance was incorrect.*

http://www.southportvisiter.co.uk/s...enefits-wins-tribunal-appeal-100252-31326071/


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## frogwoman (Jul 7, 2012)




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## treelover (Jul 7, 2012)

blood on their hands....


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 7, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> No probs folks. Just glad I got it done as pooter is seriously at it just now. I'll add to the OP as long as I can minnie and perhaps one of the lovely mods will assist when I can't edit anymore.


No problem, just PM me.


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## Frankie Jack (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks Mrs M. x


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 7, 2012)

I don't do Twatter, but is it not worth Twatting a link to this post?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Just come across this one that I'd never heard about



> In fact there have been several recent cases where people have died soon after being judged fit for work and while waiting for their appeal. In one case the patient died IN the ATOS building after his assessment. On the day of the funeral his family received a letter notifying them that he had been declared fit for work.


 
http://www.latentexistence.me.uk/whats-wrong-with-atos/


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## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

depressing but important to see.


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## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> Just come across this one that I'd never heard about
> 
> http://www.latentexistence.me.uk/whats-wrong-with-atos/



What the fucking fuck!


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## Greebo (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Just come across this one that I'd never heard about
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.latentexistence.me.uk/whats-wrong-with-atos/


Oh FFS!


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## Frankie Jack (Jul 8, 2012)

I've just messaged Steven/latentexistance to see if he has a link to the original story. I thought I had it bookmarked, but, my bookmarks are as messy as my mind at times and I forget where I put stuff.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> I've just messaged Steven/latentexistance to see if he has a link to the original story. I thought I had it bookmarked, but, my bookmarks are as messy as my mind at times and I forget where I put stuff.


 
Good idea because I was going to suggest taking that story down as I'm struggling to find anything about it


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Good idea because I was going to suggest taking that story down as I'm struggling to find anything about it


 
May be an idea as well to contact whoever is responsible for Calum's list so he can link to this thread, and you can do the same to his website?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

I've also come across snippets in various places about a story of a man with a glass eye that with corrective surgery he would regain his eyesight. I'm not sure if this is a joke or whether it's true or a joke though


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## BigTom (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I've also come across snippets in various places about a story of a man with a glass eye that with corrective surgery he would regain his eyesight. I'm not sure if this is a joke or whether it's true or a joke though


 
https://twitter.com/IanLaveryMP/status/218787183455248384




			
				Ian Lavery MP on twitter said:
			
		

> A man blind in one eye and a glass eye in the other socket was told by ATOS that with corrective surgery he could regain sight in both eyes


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

BigTom said:


> https://twitter.com/IanLaveryMP/status/218787183455248384


 
Yes, but he probably got that from the ATOS Miracles facebook page, so therefore it might just be a joke


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Atos Miracles

http://www.facebook.com/pages/ATOS-Miracles/259364897425986


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## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2012)

Atos = the new Messiah???


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Atos = the new Messiah???


 
Tongue in cheek equation 

Lots of good stories on that Atos Miracles Facebook page


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## wayward bob (Jul 8, 2012)

i realise you could have a lot of stickies in here and i'm not a regular, but should this be stickied?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> i realise you could have a lot of stickies in here and i'm not a regular, but should this be stickied?


 
Good idea before it falls into the midst of thousands of other threads.  Would probably have to ask Mrs M or one of the Mods to do it


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## Frankie Jack (Jul 19, 2012)

Recession blamed for suicide rise across Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent




> THE recession has been blamed for a huge rise in the number of suicides.
> North Staffordshire coroner Ian Smith dealt with 29 suicide cases during the first half of this year.
> That number compares with 25 for the whole of last year, 36 in 2010 and 21 in 2009.
> The vast majority were men aged between 40 and 60 who had lost their jobs or suffered marriage breakdowns.
> ...


 
What do they expect the NHS to do when it's dealing with it's own cuts and privatisation schemes. It was a hard fight for the Lords to get any concessions with regard to mental health included when the bill was debated. Lansley would have left mental health responsibility out completely if he'd had his way.


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## harpo (Jul 21, 2012)

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/2012...s-death-and-gives-wrong-name-100252-31441114/

Has this been mentioned?


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## wayward bob (Jul 21, 2012)

thanks for the sticky. ffs this thread shouldn't even exist


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> thanks for the sticky. ffs this thread shouldn't even exist


 
Not in a civilised, decent world, no.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

Fucking hell. Good thread topic but very grim.

Please do NOT take this the wrong way but I think the essentially psychopathic nature of capitalism virtually sees suicide of the some of the poorest and most vulnerable as a kind of small scale final solution. It is hard to quantify just how much of a fuck George Osborne would not give about anyone in that list.


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## trevhagl (Jul 23, 2012)

i've stuck this link on Facebook , the more shame it brings this evil govt the better


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## BigTom (Jul 23, 2012)

Man threatens to come back with a petrol bomb at Colne job centre, after not receiving benefits for a month

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...b_threat_at_Colne_Job_Centre_by_benefits_man/



> Robinson, who was not legally represented, described his behaviour as a "moment of madness”.
> 
> He told the hearing his benefits had been changed, he had had no money for a month and it had thrown him back into debt.
> 
> ...


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## treelover (Jul 23, 2012)

I wonder what sentence he will receive...


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## treelover (Jul 23, 2012)

wrong thread..


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## audiotech (Jul 23, 2012)

It's relevant IMO Mr Mod.


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## treelover (Jul 24, 2012)

eh, stop bloody sniping, I was referring to what I had posted and then deleted, grow up, all this is too important for petty squabbles...


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## audiotech (Jul 24, 2012)

A misunderstanding on my part. Please accept my apology's.


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## BigTom (Jul 24, 2012)

treelover said:


> I wonder what sentence he will receive...


 
Ah, when i saw this it's what i thought you were referring to with the wrong thread post.
The article is reporting the court case, he was bound over for £100 iirc, can't remember how long for. Sensible decision.

edit:  



> Robinson, of Blucher Street, Colne, admitted breaching the peace on July 17 and was bound over in the sum of £100, for 12 months


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## treelover (Jul 24, 2012)

aye, good on the magistrate/judge...


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## Greebo (Jul 24, 2012)

BigTom said:


> Ah, when i saw this it's what i thought you were referring to with the wrong thread post.
> The article is reporting the court case, he was bound over for £100 iirc, can't remember how long for. Sensible decision.


Agreed, particularly as a bindover gives him a chance (by staying out of further trouble) to show that the offence was out of character.


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## BigTom (Jul 24, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Agreed, particularly as a bindover gives him a chance (by staying out of further trouble) to show that the offence was out of character.


 
Yep, and no criminal record I think with a bind over, once it's completed it's gone, whereas a conditional discharge would still have to be declared on application forms etc.
I definitely remember being told that getting bound over was about the best outcome after not guilty when I did know your rights & legal observer training with GBC, I just can't remember the exact details.


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## Frankie Jack (Jul 27, 2012)

Schizophrenic Kevin Bennett lay dead in Watford flat for ‘several months’
Coroner Edward Thomas said it was impossible to tell how long ago he had died.
His brother Tim Bennett said: "We discovered that his job seeker's allowance was stopped and after that there had been no movement of money in his accounts since December.
"There were letters about his student loan and from credit card companies saying we're coming round but he just ignored them."
A post mortem found no signs of injury, but due to the advanced state of "mummification" it was impossible to give a cause of death.
Mr Thomas recorded an open verdict.


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## BigTom (Jul 30, 2012)

2 more people found fit to work who die from their condition within weeks (both heart conditions) - I thought I'd posted the Birmingham one on this thread already but I can't find it in a search so I must have put it elsewhere..

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...um=twitter#.T_Qc1FaJnMx.twitter#ixzz1zeLvA7pS



> A BIRMINGHAM dad died from a serious heart condition – weeks after Government assessors stopped his benefits and ruled he was fit for work.
> 
> Paul Turner, 52, from Erdington, was ordered to find a job in February following a medical review with doctors.
> 
> But he died on April 2 from ischaemic heart disease – caused, his family claim, by the stress of losing his benefits.


 
And in the Telegraph today ahead of the BBC panorama program, a similar story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...s-sending-sick-and-disabled-back-to-work.html



> Stephen Hill was sent to his first Work Capability Assessment in 2010 when he gave up his job as a sandwich delivery man after being referred for tests on his heart.
> 
> His wife Denise, who was with him at the assessment, said: "She checked him out. She did his blood pressure and his heart and said to see a doctor as soon as possible."
> 
> ...


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

BigTom said:


> 2 more people found fit to work who die from their condition within weeks (both heart conditions) -


 


> His wife Denise, who was with him at the assessment, said: "She checked him out. She did his blood pressure and his heart and said to see a doctor as soon as possible."
> 
> *Despite the assessor telling Mr Hill to seek urgent medical advice, he was still found fit for work. In the meantime doctors had diagnosed him with heart failure.*


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


>





BigTom said:


> 2 more people found fit to work who die from their condition within weeks (both heart conditions) - I thought I'd posted the Birmingham one on this thread already but I can't find it in a search so I must have put it elsewhere..
> 
> http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...um=twitter#.T_Qc1FaJnMx.twitter#ixzz1zeLvA7pS
> 
> ...


 
which reminds me, those TWO programmes are on tonight so I've stuck them on record.

I think it's worth giving the Channel 4 one it's own thread in TV and General don't you think?  More people/publicity, the better


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## BigTom (Jul 30, 2012)

yeah. I'm still speechless about that.  I hope the assessor resigned after that, should have whistleblown.  How you can find someone fit for work but tell them to seek urgent medical advice and say fuck all, I don't know, perhaps I'm wrong and the assessor didn't stay silent.  Oh, they break the official secrets act if they speak out don't they..


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## treelover (Jul 30, 2012)

'But he died on April 2 from ischaemic heart disease – caused, his family claim, by the stress of losing his benefits.'


j'accuse, murderers, blood on their hands....


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 30, 2012)

BigTom said:


> yeah. I'm still speechless about that. I hope the assessor resigned after that, should have whistleblown. How you can find someone fit for work but tell them to seek urgent medical advice and say fuck all, I don't know, perhaps I'm wrong and the assessor didn't stay silent. Oh, they break the official secrets act if they speak out don't they..


 

Sorry Tom, but I'm really busy.  Getting ready to go and pick up some houseguests.

Can you or someone else publicise the Channel 4 programme on TV forums and General?

If I get myself sorted fastish, I'll do it, but I've still got to fit breakfast in which I'm off to do now


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## BigTom (Jul 30, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Sorry Tom, but I'm really busy. Getting ready to go and pick up some houseguests.
> 
> Can you or someone else publicise the Channel 4 programme on TV forums and General?
> 
> If I get myself sorted fastish, I'll do it, but I've still got to fit breakfast in which I'm off to do now


 
Yeah I'm on it will post something soon


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## treelover (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm absolutely baffled there are not national marches, etc being organised to highlight the cases mentioned in Birmingham, I mean large scale ones, not the worthwhile but small scale ones we have witnessed...


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## BigTom (Jul 30, 2012)

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...n-atos-disability-assessments-tonight.297008/


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## BigTom (Jul 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> I'm absolutely baffled there are not national marches, etc being organised to highlight the cases mentioned in Birmingham, I mean large scale ones, not the worthwhile but small scale ones we have witnessed...


 
Yeah, would be great, we had a fairly decent local demo over the jobseeker setting fire to himself, but nothing about the heart attack death (though it was discussed - but no-one was around that weekend).
Tory party conference in October..


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## isvicthere? (Jul 30, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> Not got any to add, but just want to say thank you for starting this thread.


 
Indeed.


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## Greebo (Jul 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> I'm absolutely baffled there are not national marches, etc being organised to highlight the cases mentioned in Birmingham, I mean large scale ones, not the worthwhile but small scale ones we have witnessed...


I'm taking a wild guess here, but it might be because of the number of long term sick people who are in no fit state to march, and their carers are either too busy or just too knackered to march.


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## treelover (Jul 30, 2012)

wrong, there was one in Manchester during the LP conference a few years back, a number of of disabled people, etc, there, sadly even though it was the same weekend 60'000 people marched 'against the war' no one from the left etc joined the march...

mmm...


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## Greebo (Jul 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> wrong, there was one in Manchester during the LP conference a few years back, a number of of disabled people, etc, there, sadly even though it was the same weekend 60'000 people marched 'against the war' no one from the left etc joined the march...
> 
> mmm...


Being long term sick to a disabling extent isn't the same as being disabled and well. You can be disabled but well enough to commute and hold down a full time job. The same applies to the feasibility of going on a march.

Having said which, it seems to me that this is something which is conveniently ignored by people (including activists) whose lives aren't directly affected by disability or longterm sickness.


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## audiotech (Jul 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> wrong, there was one in Manchester during the LP conference a few years back, a number of of disabled people, etc, there, sadly even though it was the same weekend 60'000 people marched 'against the war' no one from the left etc joined the march...
> 
> mmm...


 
Birmingham 2010:







http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=22608


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## Greebo (Jul 30, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Birmingham 2010:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wheelchair users form a small minority of disabled people, let alone people who are long term sick to the point of being disabled.  Nice to see them there, and a few ambulant disabled people too, but I wonder how many more would have been exhausted (or made worse) by just trying to get to the start of that march?


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## BigTom (Jul 30, 2012)

There was the hardest hit demo last year that had a good few thousand people on it


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## Greebo (Jul 30, 2012)

BigTom said:


> There was the hardest hit demo last year that had a good few thousand people on it


Not nearly enough.


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## treelover (Jul 31, 2012)

I should mention the organisers of the rally I described above got literally hundreds of emails from people who were just scared to go on the rally due to fear of being identified, etc and being found 'fit for work, shocking really, this was I repeat during the NL era...


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## Greebo (Jul 31, 2012)

treelover said:


> I should mention the organisers of the rally I described above got literally hundreds of emails from people who were just scared to go on the rally due to fear of being identified, etc and being found 'fit for work, shocking really, this was I repeat during the NL era...


Shocking, but not surprising.  You should read the abuse heaped on people with M.E. for having the temerity to use some of their energy to write a letter to a newspapaper.  eg "Isn't that the illness which makes you unable to do anything except write complaining letters?"


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 31, 2012)

treelover said:


> I'm absolutely baffled there are not national marches, etc being organised to highlight the cases mentioned in Birmingham, I mean large scale ones, not the worthwhile but small scale ones we have witnessed...



There are a reasonable amount of local actions. National ones are a knacker to organise and questionable in effect. The only language the politicians and press understand is confrontation. They just look down their noses at demos, like "be thankful you can demo at all you lucky serfs".


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 4, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Being long term sick to a disabling extent isn't the same as being disabled and well. You can be disabled but well enough to commute and hold down a full time job. The same applies to the feasibility of going on a march.
> 
> Having said which, it seems to me that this is something which is conveniently ignored by people (including activists) whose lives aren't directly affected by disability or longterm sickness.


It's only recently my own family has become aware of the distinction, so it's not surprising people don't get the distinction.

There's some very Victorian attitudes towards sickness still - don't discuss it or acknowledge it, and you can pretend it doesn't affect you.


----------



## savoloysam (Aug 8, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It is hard to quantify just how much of a fuck George Osborne would not give about anyone in that list.


 
110%.


----------



## extra dry (Aug 15, 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2188519/Recession-blame-death-toll-1-000-suicides.html

I know the Daily Mail with this!


----------



## BigTom (Aug 15, 2012)

http://www.bmj.com/press-releases/2012/08/14/uk-recession-may-be-blame-over-1000-suicides-england

Is the BMJ press release the article is from.  I've also seen Guardian and BBC reporting it.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 17, 2012)

Here is the article.

Suicides associated with the 2008-10 economic recession in England: time trend analysis



> Conclusion The study provides evidence linking the recent increase in suicides in England with the financial crisis that began in 2008. English regions with the largest rises in unemployment have had the largest increases in suicides, particularly among men.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 18, 2012)

*Karen Hackett* ‏@*karen_hackett* 
My friend who was cremated y/day has been sent her p45 & told she is not sick enough 4 esa & to look 4 work.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 19, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> *Karen Hackett* ‏@*karen_hackett*
> My friend who was cremated y/day has been sent her p45 & told she is not sick enough 4 esa & to look 4 work.


Sorry to hear this Frankie, I hope someone lodges a complaint with the DWP on her behalf.

Please accept my condolences x x


----------



## ddraig (Aug 19, 2012)

it is from a twitter post
very sad 
https://twitter.com/karen_hackett/status/236251266823639040


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 19, 2012)

As ddraig said it's Karen Hacketts twitterpost. Laptop was heading for a crash so posted before I could add more. Just came in to edit.


----------



## treelover (Aug 19, 2012)

This barbarism has to stop...


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 19, 2012)

It's not right


----------



## treelover (Aug 19, 2012)

'I am due to have a medical shortly. I expect to be found fit cos when I am up I can pick up a pint of milk and touch my head. I won't be able to get to the Jobcentre never mind work activity. I have nowhere else to go and no other source of income.'
It won't "force" me into being able to get a job. It means I will be left penniless and lose my home. Being this ill sleeping in a tent on the streets is not an option. I've already looked into Dignitas. Alright if you've got £10,000 to spare and someone to get you there.'

from Diary of a benefit scrounger blog(Sue Marsh)



The fact that this person (who has severe M.E/fibro) has considered going to Dignitas, as have many others is a blood red stain on the country, its governance and yes, to a degree its people who tolerate it, they wouldn't in say Spain or France, look at the DPAC protests next week, hardy any interest from the wider activist community, yet these are people who demonstrate at the drop of a hat(Uk uncut are with them though)


----------



## pengaleng (Aug 21, 2012)

Last time I had one of these ESA forms it was three months after my last medical. I answered every single question with I HAVE A PROGRESSIVE CONDITION AND I TOLD YOU THIS SHIT THREE MONTHS AGO. Then on the other info you'd like to tell us about page I wrote something like IM GONNA FUCKING KILL MYSELF TO HELP YOUR FUCKING DEFECIT CONGRATULATIONS !! YOU WIN!!!!


----------



## pengaleng (Aug 21, 2012)

This whole fucking thread is too much and it's fucking disgusting to read.


----------



## Firky (Aug 21, 2012)

I'd told them I'd send them my diseased, cancerous liver and said they can assess that.

Got the idea from you.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

tribal_princess said:


> Last time I had one of these ESA forms it was three months after my last medical. I answered every single question with I HAVE A PROGRESSIVE CONDITION AND I TOLD YOU THIS SHIT THREE MONTHS AGO. Then on the other info you'd like to tell us about page I wrote something like IM GONNA FUCKING KILL MYSELF TO HELP YOUR FUCKING DEFECIT CONGRATULATIONS !! YOU WIN!!!!


 
They'll probably send you another form soon


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

firky said:


> I'd told them I'd send them my diseased, cancerous liver and told them they can assess that.
> 
> Got the idea from you.


 
ah, but you've got a new healthy liver now haven't you, so you and your liver can get your arse out there and find yourself a job you lazy scrounger


----------



## yardbird (Aug 21, 2012)

Like teeps, I wrote on my last ESA form in CAPS.
NB I'VE GOT MS AND IT AIN'T GONNA IMPROVE - WHERE'S THE BOX TO TICK PLEASE?


----------



## pengaleng (Aug 21, 2012)

I dunno, I didn't even get a medical after that form, think I got put in the liability pile. I'll just write the same shit on it the next time. I don't even give a fuck anymore. I did start working (FORCED TO WHORE MYSELF ON CAMERA ON THE INTERNET CUS IT'S THE ONLY THING I CAN FUCKING DO, NO I DONT PARTICULARLY LIKE IT, BUT I HATE ATOS MORE THAN LOOKING AT MEN RUBBING THEIR COCKS ON A FUCKING WELL AGED SPUNK RAG) but I'm well too ill atm cus I've just had a massive relapse, even though that's the case when I get off holiday I'm still gonna ram dildos up my pussoir in an attempt to earn enough to tell those fucks to fuck the fuck off.


----------



## Firky (Aug 21, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> ah, but you've got a new healthy liver now haven't you, so you and your liver can get your arse out there and find yourself a job you lazy scrounger


 
They rang up (to check if I was in the house I reckon and not living like a millionaire on my benefits)and said they'd send a form in six to eight weeks after I had surgery. I laughed at the woman on the phone and told her she could send it if she liked. 

Don't even know what form it is supposed to be.


----------



## Firky (Aug 21, 2012)

I bet there's some fucking journo cunt from the Guardian reading this with a big fucking grin on their face, 'oohh this could get me half a page spread on the inside cover'.

FUCK OFF YOU GHOULS.


----------



## pengaleng (Aug 21, 2012)

LOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## pengaleng (Aug 21, 2012)

They can put me in their skank rag, I'm quite the character.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 21, 2012)

tribal_princess said:


> I dunno, I didn't even get a medical after that form, think I got put in the liability pile. I'll just write the same shit on it the next time. I don't even give a fuck anymore. I did start working (FORCED TO WHORE MYSELF ON CAMERA ON THE INTERNET CUS IT'S THE ONLY THING I CAN FUCKING DO, NO I DONT PARTICULARLY LIKE IT, BUT I HATE ATOS MORE THAN LOOKING AT MEN RUBBING THEIR COCKS ON A FUCKING WELL AGED SPUNK RAG) but I'm well too ill atm cus I've just had a massive relapse, even though that's the case when I get off holiday I'm still gonna ram dildos up my pussoir in an attempt to earn enough to tell those fucks to fuck the fuck off.


I've missed your posts on Urb teeps


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

yardbird said:


> Like teeps, I wrote on my last ESA form in CAPS.
> NB I'VE GOT MS AND IT AIN'T GONNA IMPROVE - WHERE'S THE BOX TO TICK PLEASE?


 
And here's a right strange one on the form:

*



			Q15 - Going out
		
Click to expand...

*


> Can you leave home and go to places *you know *if someone goes with you - *No, Yes, It Varies*
> 
> Can you leave home and go to places *you don't know *if someone goes with you - *Usually, Not Very Often, It Varies*




Where's the option for *NO *or *NEVER? *

I had to leave that unticked as *NEVER *wasn't an option and *Usually, Not Very Often *and *It Varies* doesn't apply. Only *NEVER *applies


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

tribal_princess said:


> I dunno, I didn't even get a medical after that form, think I got put in the liability pile. I'll just write the same shit on it the next time. I don't even give a fuck anymore. I did start working (FORCED TO WHORE MYSELF ON CAMERA ON THE INTERNET CUS IT'S THE ONLY THING I CAN FUCKING DO, NO I DONT PARTICULARLY LIKE IT, BUT I HATE ATOS MORE THAN LOOKING AT MEN RUBBING THEIR COCKS ON A FUCKING WELL AGED SPUNK RAG) but I'm well too ill atm cus I've just had a massive relapse, even though that's the case when I get off holiday I'm still gonna ram dildos up my pussoir in an attempt to earn enough to tell those fucks to fuck the fuck off.


 
You should send them some pictures of your employment and what you've had to resort to, except they'd probably enjoy it


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

firky said:


> They rang up (to check if I was in the house I reckon and not living like a millionaire on my benefits)and said they'd send a form in six to eight weeks after I had surgery. I laughed at the woman on the phone and told her she could send it if she liked.
> 
> Don't even know what form it is supposed to be.


 
Probably the ESA to see if you're fit for work


----------



## Firky (Aug 21, 2012)

Fit for work, six weeks after having one of the most major forms of surgery you can have, more major than a heart and lung transplant or a triple by-pass, and they think I will be ready for work... it beggars belief.

Yeah am fine, you know - chemotherapy, RFA, transplantation, auto-immune suppression, chronic fatigue... it's not an obstacle at all.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

firky said:


> Fit for work, six weeks after having one of the most major forms of surgery you can have, more major than a heart and lung transplant or a triple by-pass, and they think I will be ready for work... it beggars belief.
> 
> Yeah am fine, you know - chemotherapy, RFA, transplantation, auto-immune suppression, chronic fatigue... it's not an obstacle at all.


 
Course it isn't.  Your middle fingers works doesn't it?  You can therefore press a button 

Alternatively






but the assessor may not be happy


----------



## Firky (Aug 21, 2012)

Newcastle Social Services, to their credit, have been doing most of it for me. I wouldn't have got DLA if it wasn't for them.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

firky said:


> Fit for work, six weeks after having one of the most major forms of surgery you can have, more major than a heart and lung transplant or a triple by-pass, and they think I will be ready for work... it beggars belief.
> 
> Yeah am fine, you know - chemotherapy, RFA, transplantation, auto-immune suppression, chronic fatigue... it's not an obstacle at all.


 
Fit for work

http://news.stv.tv/north/104394-man...achine-is-told-he-is-fit-enough-to-find-work/


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 21, 2012)

firky said:


> Newcastle Social Services, to their credit, have been doing most of it for me. I wouldn't have got DLA if it wasn't for them.


 
Good for them.  Should be interesting to see how they tackle the ESA form


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 22, 2012)

firky said:


> I'd told them I'd send them my diseased, cancerous liver and said they can assess that.
> 
> Got the idea from you.


 
TBF you should get your ma to buy a couple of pound of really manky ox liver, full of tubes and stuff, stick it in a placcy bag, and post it off to them with a note saying "here it is, just as I promised. BTW, turns out I had the whole hepatitis alphabet. LOL".


----------



## treelover (Aug 22, 2012)

not trying to be board police, but can we keep this particular thread for the victims of ATOS, etc who have paid the full price of its brutality, etc..

i include myself in that request...


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 22, 2012)

treelover said:


> not trying to be board police, but can we keep this particular thread for the victims of ATOS, etc who have paid the full price of its brutality, etc..
> 
> i include myself in that request...


Agree treelover. This thread is open to public view I think and has been linked to on a fair few places recently.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 27, 2012)

Not sure where to put this:

a*os closes down Carerwatch. While the site is up again, it is absolutely dead. No one is posting and they seem to have taken it to facebook.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 27, 2012)

http://www.wandsworthguardian.co.uk/news/9215292.Dad_committed_suicide_after_housing_benefit_cut/

Dad committed suicide after housing benefit cut, having been told he would have to leave his training course to continue to get JSA (and presumably housing benefit). 



> A desperate man who lined up three kitchen knives before stabbing himself twice in the heart, blamed cuts in housing benefit.
> 
> Unemployed Richard Sanderson took his own life after writing three suicide notes which were laid out neatly on a bed in a meticulously planned act.
> 
> ...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 27, 2012)

He's mentioned in the OP


----------



## BigTom (Aug 27, 2012)

oh, I only heard about it over the weekend, I guess the coroner has just reported on it, which is why it's news again. Nasty. especially if the bit about not suffering from an illness is true, rational suicide to make sure his kid(s) has a home


----------



## Firky (Aug 29, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> Not got any to add, but just want to say thank you for starting this thread.


 
Yep, I am hesitant to like the first post but it is brilliant this is being catalogued.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 31, 2012)

Atos appeal woman Cecilia Burns from Strabane has died
From BBC News.


> A cancer sufferer, who had her benefits cut by government officials who said she was fit to work, has died.
> Cecilia Burns, 51, from Strabane, County Tyrone, had started a campaign in February to have the decision overturned.
> Ms Burns had her benefits cut after she was assessed by government contractor Atos Healthcare.
> She had her benefits reinstated just a few weeks ago but died on Monday.
> ...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 31, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> Atos appeal woman Cecilia Burns from Strabane has died
> From BBC News.


 
 

I thought if you were undergoing cancer treatment you didn't have benefits cut or is it still the case of only if you're undergoing IV chemo and maybe she was having radiotherapy? And I also thought you don't have them cut if you've less than six months left to live?


----------



## treelover (Aug 31, 2012)




----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 31, 2012)




----------



## yield (Aug 31, 2012)

Jesus wept.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 31, 2012)




----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 31, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I thought if you were ungoing cancer treatment you didn't have benefits cut or is it still the case of only if you're undergoing IV chemo and maybe she was having radiotherapy? And I also thought you don't have them cut if you've less than six months left to live?


Her WCA was back in Feb before the WRA was passed and all the hoohaa about cancer sufferers  classed fit to work came to the fore minnie.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 31, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> Her WCA was back in Feb before the WRA was passed and all the hoohaa about cancer sufferers classed fit to work came to the fore minnie.


----------



## treelover (Aug 31, 2012)

'having read comments generally. I am fed up with some commentators "claiming that Crime hate against the disabled" does not exist?
In my whole life as a deaf person, I have never had that experience until recently in June 2012....
My new neighbour who just moved in for one month....had made assuimptions about me...and my hearing dog...
His words were" Get off your fucking lazy disabled arse, and stop living off my tax money"...this was over an incident of my neighbour dumping a supermarket trolley in the communal hallway unrelated to me personally and he just assumed it was me that complained about the trolley as he dumped it against my front door (in fact it was all of us on the entire floor!).....that complained about the trolley.
His statement as above was a clear copy cat speech of what Government have been saying....ie "Disabled people are scroungers"....
Then I found my car was scratched/keyed in the same evening....CCTV cameras revealed it was my nieghbour....at a later stage whne the police investigated.
The really scary thing was that I decided to call the Police in....to report the neighbour's abuse and potentially keying my car... The Police made some calls...he muttered and discussed with his colleagues about what action to take and I heard him say "Yes, I know this is another one yes very similar"......
The Policeman admitted to me that in fact there has been a dramtic increase in crimes against the disabled and because of potential backlash from neighbours..The Police had no option but to advise me to move away.....How shocking to be told in that manner if the Polices'hands are tied like that?'


I think I should put this here, its a comment from Guardian CIF that someone has posted and I consider it relevant, if anyone/mods don't welcome to move/delete it, its very worrying and sad and a clear example of the impact of the propaganda campaign against disabled people/claimants


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 31, 2012)

treelover said:


> I think I should put this here, its from Guardian CIF and I consider it relevant, if anyone/mods don't welcome to move/delete it, its very worrying and sad and a clear example of the impact of the propaganda campaign against disabled people/claimants


It's fine by me treelover.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 31, 2012)

treelover said:


> 'having read comments generally. I am fed up with some commentators "claiming that Crime hate against the disabled" does not exist?
> In my whole life as a deaf person, I have never had that experience until recently in June 2012....
> My new neighbour who just moved in for one month....had made assuimptions about me...and my hearing dog...
> His words were" Get off your fucking lazy disabled arse, and stop living off my tax money"...this was over an incident of my neighbour dumping a supermarket trolley in the communal hallway unrelated to me personally and he just assumed it was me that complained about the trolley as he dumped it against my front door (in fact it was all of us on the entire floor!).....that complained about the trolley.
> ...


 
You should tell him you hope he or none of his family ever get ill or have an accident 

Remind him that 1 in 3 people are expected to get some kind of cancer in their lives


----------



## treelover (Aug 31, 2012)

He/she should definitely go the media if they are up to it, they are desperate for real life examples...


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 31, 2012)

Treelover - it's not entirely clear whether you wrote that or someone else did.


----------



## treelover (Aug 31, 2012)

edited now for hopefully clarity...


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 31, 2012)

Not really, but never mind


----------



## BigTom (Aug 31, 2012)

treelover said:


> edited now for hopefully clarity...


 
If yuo add Quote tags around it, it'll be very clear - just put these at the start and end:


```
[quote] (stuff you are c+p'ing from CiF) [/quote]
```


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 31, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I thought if you were undergoing cancer treatment you didn't have benefits cut or is it still the case of only if you're undergoing IV chemo and maybe she was having radiotherapy? And I also thought you don't have them cut if you've less than six months left to live?


Didn't one of the recent programs show the Atos doctor saying IV chemo was the only form of chemotherapy considered eligible, tablet or other oral forms aren't? 

I think it's absolutely disgraceful that someone can be forced to give up training to improve their employability because technically they're not available for work. Shame on the DWP and Atos, shame on them.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 31, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Didn't one of the recent programs show the Atos doctor saying IV chemo was the only form of chemotherapy considered eligible, tablet or other oral forms aren't?
> 
> I think it's absolutely disgraceful that someone can be forced to give up training to improve their employability because technically they're not available for work. Shame on the DWP and Atos, shame on them.


 
Yeah, that's what I thought and I think we discussed it. 

I think everyone wearing an ATOS lanyard should get together and have a great big fire at the end of the games and burned them publicly outside their offices


----------



## shagnasty (Sep 1, 2012)

The guardian and indie have covered the protests ,some good videos at the graun .Don't expect much from the others apart maybe the mirror.the campaign has moved on


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh, can't remember when the Mirror article was but it's not in the hard copy of Wednesday or Thursday's paper


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 2, 2012)

I hate the Torys
I hate them
Hate them
Hate
Muscle and hate
Church
Church
Lies
LIES!


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 2, 2012)

Apologies for the nitzer ebb
I soberly endorse the above sentiments still though


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2012)

> My 40 year old step son was declared fit to work, when he clearly wasn't, and he died 3 weeks later. The steps this lower than sub-basement Government will take to deprive the sick and disabled of deserved benefits just beggars belief.


 

taken from CIF on the article about the sanctions, but sounds genuine


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 10, 2012)

> *British people are committing suicide to escape poverty. Is this what the State wants?*
> 
> 
> ​


 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ng-suicide-escape-poverty-Is-State-wants.html


----------



## starfish2000 (Sep 12, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I'd never heard of that. Was it under similar circumstances to the above?
> 
> Do you have more info?



Im sure someone immolated themselves near number 10 during the 80s or am I mistaking it for this story.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Sep 18, 2012)

Scots reveal their fears as callous Con-Dem welfare cuts will see 74,000 lose their benefits 




> TERMINALLY ill Janet McCall was declared fit for work – five months before she died.
> Janet, 53, was assessed by Government contractors Atos after she applied for Disability Living Allowance (DLA) and Employment Support Allowance (ESA).
> At the time, she had pulmonary fibrosis and scarring of the lungs and she was struggling to breathe.
> A doctor from French firm Atos was sent to Janet’s home in Dennistoun, Glasgow, to assess her fitness to work in the summer of last year.
> ...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 18, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> Scots reveal their fears as callous Con-Dem welfare cuts will see 74,000 lose their benefits


 
DLA overturned, but not ESA


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2012)

> *Michael Meacher MP*
> 
> *Labour MP for Oldham West and Royton*
> 
> ...


 
Continue reading here:


http://www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2012/09/how-many-hundreds-has-atos-healthcare-killed-so-far/


----------



## treelover (Sep 21, 2012)

What can we do?, this can't go on, where is civil society, the unions, this is immoral, brutal, a crime...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 21, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> Continue reading here:
> 
> 
> http://www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2012/09/how-many-hundreds-has-atos-healthcare-killed-so-far/


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 21, 2012)

Although not a death, other one is worth pointing out



> “I was sent to an Atos fit-for-work assessment medical.   I was unwell at the medical and pointed out I have had 7 heart attacks, 2 of which were within the prior 18 months.   At the medical the doctor took my blood pressure with a machine and it read 174 over 145.   She said That’s high, so took it on the othjer arm, and it read 172 over 142.   Then the doctor said The machine must be broken, you look fine to me.   That is the first time I have known a doctor to see visually that a person’s blood pressure is fine.   As I walked out, I asked for my taxi fares, and was told I am not entitled any.   As I walked to get a taxi, I got about 50 feet from the medical centre door and had a heart attack…..10 days after the medical I was allowed home (from Hospital), only to find that I was found fit for work in a letter and all my benefits were stopped”.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## treelover (Sep 24, 2012)

September 23, 2012  Add comments 
(Photographs added by Black Triangle admin)
*By Dr Eoin Clarke* 





Tragic: Mark and Helen Mullins could not face another freezing winter on the poverty line, according to neighbours
1. & 2. Helen & Mark Mullins both aged 48 killed themselves together in a suicide pact because they had become so poor as a result of Helen losing her DLA and having their daughter removed from custody. The family, unable to afford a fridge, used to hang bags of food in the garden to keep them cold. (see link)
3. Wandsworth’s Richard Sanderson a 44 year old former pilot took his life after he feared his family would be made homeless due to a cut in his housing benefit because of his inability to find work. (see link) 
4. A woman wrote to DPAC to inform them that her 33 year old sister had committed suicide after first failing to kill herself by overdose and then jumping to her death. (see link) 
5. Martin Rust aged 36, from Norwich, was declared fit to work by the DWP. Martin took his life and left his family with the note “To those I love I am sorry. Goodbye”. (here) 
6. Sunderland’s Leanne Chambers aged 30 drowned herself after receiving a letter saying that she was fit to return to work. She had battled depression for years. (see link)  




Paul Reekie, poet, author, iconoclast, Leither. Paul took his own life following an Atos/DWP Work Capability Assessment. The Black Triangle Campaign was founded in his memory
7. Leith’s acclaimed writer 48 year old Paul Reekie took his own life one month after George Osborne’s emergency budget in June 2010 announced a crackdown on welfare. Letters informing Reekie that he was to have his benefits cut were found close to his bodily person on death. (see link) 
8. Hull’s Elaine Christian aged 57 slashed her wrist ten times and jumped into a river and drowned on route to a disability assessment to decide if her benefits should be taken from her. (see link) 
9. Northants’ Paul Wilcoxen aged 33 took his own life by hanging himself in a forest as he had spent a summer searching for work. His suicide letter expressed worries about government cuts. (see link) 
10. Frank Campbell, aged 55, killed himself in protest because of the red tape bureaucracy required of him to gain his benefits (here) 




Tragedy: Brother Anthony Hill with a picture of Stephen – Photo by Ross Parry

See also, Stephen Hill (here)
and Paul Turner (here) 




Paul Turner and the letter informing him he was considered fit to work

_*#RIP *_


​​


----------



## trampie (Sep 26, 2012)

This whole thread is a terrible indictment of this country, the middle class wannabes and their trade unions have got to take a close look at themselves, police, teachers etc wanting more and more and expecting the low paid and poor to pay for it through taxes is a disgrace, its the me me me society, politically England is lost, its policies are so right wing the Celts will soon need binoculars to see them, the country has not recovered since the English voted Thatcher in appealing to peoples greed, if England doesn't pull back we will be fast approaching the end game, England going for the American model and the Celts for a Scandinavian model....oh aye , i know which model i prefer.


----------



## ericjarvis (Sep 26, 2012)

trampie said:


> This whole thread is a terrible indictment of this country, the middle class wannabes and their trade unions have got to take a close look at themselves, police, teachers etc wanting more and more and expecting the low paid and poor to pay for it through taxes is a disgrace, its the me me me society, politically England is lost, its policies are so right wing the Celts will soon need binoculars to see them, the country has not recovered since the English voted Thatcher in appealing to peoples greed, if England doesn't pull back we will be fast approaching the end game, England going for the American model and the Celts for a Scandinavian model....oh aye , i know which model i prefer.


 
So where will I head for political asylum, north or west?


----------



## trampie (Sep 26, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> So where will I head for political asylum, north or west?


The Celts have always been welcoming to those that come in peace so your choice.


----------



## ericjarvis (Sep 26, 2012)

trampie said:


> The Celts have always been welcoming to those that come in peace so your choice.


 
Tell me about it!

My ancestry is Cornish. The bastards picked us off first.


----------



## trampie (Sep 26, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> Tell me about it!
> 
> My ancestry is Cornish. The bastards picked us off first.


The Celts are caring sharing types, the Welsh would divide land between the family after the death of the head of a family none of this son and heir stuff and women had rights too, do they have the vote these days in occupied Cornwall ?, anyway it would take far to long to tell you about it you will have to do your own research, the internet is a marvellous resource but it is very hard for authorities to stop people learning things they rather they did not know, i bet you learned about 1066 and ww1 and 2 in school and that was about it, education was/is a way of controlling the masses.
Being Cornish i would say West would be your best bet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

trampie said:


> This whole thread is a terrible indictment of this country, the middle class wannabes and their trade unions have got to take a close look at themselves, police, teachers etc wanting more and more and expecting the low paid and poor to pay for it through taxes is a disgrace, its the me me me society, politically England is lost, its policies are so right wing the Celts will soon need binoculars to see them, the country has not recovered since the English voted Thatcher in appealing to peoples greed, if England doesn't pull back we will be fast approaching the end game, England going for the American model and the Celts for a Scandinavian model....oh aye , i know which model i prefer.


 
Because, of course, no Welsh person ever bought into Thatcherism, did they, you smug dullard twat?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> So where will I head for political asylum, north or west?


 
Anywhere trampie isn't, I'd recommend!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 26, 2012)

CHANNEL 4 NEWS NOW

Report on Colin Traynor


----------



## treelover (Sep 26, 2012)

Yes, major report, shocking, where is civil society, etc on all this, when people die in other suspect circumstances, they are all over the issue..


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 26, 2012)

trampie said:


> This whole thread is a terrible indictment of this country, *the middle class wannabes and their trade unions have got to take a close look at themselves, police, teachers etc wanting more and more and expecting the low paid and poor to pay for it through taxes is a disgrace, its the me me me society*, politically England is lost, its policies are so right wing the Celts will soon need binoculars to see them, the country has not recovered since the English voted Thatcher in appealing to peoples greed, if England doesn't pull back we will be fast approaching the end game, England going for the American model and the Celts for a Scandinavian model....oh aye , i know which model i prefer.


 
I love the idea that there's any meaningful ethnic difference between those living in England and those in Scotland Ireland and Wales. Thousands of years worth of conquest, pillage, rape and colonism put an end to that I'm afraid.

Also, statements like the one underlined is pure Thatcherism. I think you're a little bit confused.

Hopefully a racially pure Celtic State will settle these internal contradictions before the union breaks up. Racial seperatism ftw!


----------



## treelover (Sep 26, 2012)

please take these debates elsewhere, surely this thread is for the dead and those on the brink..


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 26, 2012)

that's my last word on the topic, promise.


----------



## krink (Sep 27, 2012)

just listened to radio 5 the parents of a lad who died after being declared fit to work. absolutely heartbreaking. these bastards in government should pay for this.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I love the idea that there's any meaningful ethnic difference between those living in England and those in Scotland Ireland and Wales. Thousands of years worth of conquest, pillage, rape and colonism put an end to that I'm afraid.
> 
> Also, statements like the one underlined is *pure Thatcherism*. I think you're a little bit confused.
> 
> Hopefully a racially pure Celtic State will settle these internal contradictions before the union breaks up. Racial seperatism ftw!


 
There's a reason why the phrase I most often refer to him by is "Welsh Tory cunt".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

krink said:


> just listened to radio 5 the parents of a lad who died after being declared fit to work. absolutely heartbreaking. these bastards in government should pay for this.


 
Although we can be absolutely sure that they won't, not least because, despite all the barracking in the House of Commons between the parties, they're all the fucking same and will guard each others' arses as assiduously as they guard their own over shite such as this.


----------



## krink (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Although we can be absolutely sure that they won't, not least because, despite all the barracking in the House of Commons between the parties, they're all the fucking same and will guard each others' arses as assiduously as they guard their own over shite such as this.


 
I agree with you. When I say 'pay for it' I mean they should pay in the same way that poor lad did.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

krink said:


> I agree with you. When I say 'pay for it' I mean they should pay in the same way that poor lad did.


 
Or with something slower, more subtle and infinitely more mentally and physically-anguishing, if I have my way.


----------



## yield (Oct 3, 2012)

DoYouPayTax? said:


> Really? How simple sided you all see the world. People die all the time, it's a fact of living. People commit suicide for stupid reasons and you can't pin the fact that peoples benefits were cut on their deaths. Shame, I thought Urban75 was based on facts not unsubstantiated twaddle.


Have you bothered to read the thread and the news articles posted?

Are you here to talk or annoy? If you just want a rise out of people please go away.


----------



## treelover (Oct 3, 2012)

DYPT, not the thread for debating, please take it to another thread, this is for remembrance, etc..


----------



## audiotech (Oct 3, 2012)

DoYouPayTax? said:


> Really? How simple sided you all see the world. People die all the time, it's a fact of living. People commit suicide for stupid reasons.....


 
I would hope that you don't ever suffer "suicide headaches". Hey, and they stopped my benefits too. How "stupid" eh?



Cluster Headaches.



> Dr. Seymour Diamond, of the Diamond Headache Clinic in Chicago, says he has seen cases go to extremes: "The only suicides I've ever seen in any headache patients have been men who have had clusters.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/PainManagement/story?id=126909#.UGw2Qk2pRSg


----------



## Frumious B. (Oct 3, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> In no specific date order and taken from links I had saved. There are possibly many others out there and the list will need updating as more are affected.


 
Frankie, I wonder if Michael Meacher would appreciate a copy of your list? 



> _Labour MP Michael Meacher has launched a campaign against Atos after one of his constituents who had been ruled fit for work died of a seizure...__“I am trying to gather all the cases I can, because this is a massive injustice. I am prepared to campaign for months or years until this is addressed properly.”_


 
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/atos-scandal-benefits-bosses-admit-1344278


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2012)

DoYouPayTax? said:


> Really? How simple sided you all see the world. People die all the time, it's a fact of living. People commit suicide for stupid reasons and you can't pin the fact that peoples benefits were cut on their deaths. Shame, I thought Urban75 was based on facts not unsubstantiated twaddle.


 
W/R/T motivation for suicide, in _lieu_ of a "suicide note", inquests (_pro forma_ for suicides) don't base their findings on "unsubstantiated twaddle". The information that inquests use is often from _post mortem_ examinations, and from police investigation. They don't deal in "unsubstantiated twaddle". We're talking about weight of evidence indicative of the primary motivation being related to their benefits claims.

Your username indicates that you rate a person by their ability to pay tax. A fine example of twaddle-based thinking.


----------



## Frumious B. (Oct 3, 2012)

VP, don't indulge it with a reply. Just report the troll. I have.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Oct 3, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> Frankie, I wonder if Michael Meacher would appreciate a copy of your list?
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/atos-scandal-benefits-bosses-admit-1344278


I'm sure people have sent him details of those people listed on that thread. There are quite a few people I know in contact with him. 

I've been searching an upating more articles recently for sending to MSPs debating WRA reforms up here in Scotland. I'll send to Michael Meacher too once I've got meself organised. 

Haranging Disability Works UK today for their involvement in the Work Program. 



> Disability Works UK is a not-for-profit consortium of eight national disability charities that have come together to provide tailored employment support to disabled people.
> Disability Works UK has secured a number of sub-contracts to deliver the Work Programme; the Government's employment initiative aimed at supporting long-term unemployed and disabled people into work.
> Through the Work Programme, Disability Works UK provides tailored support and training, including interview practice, skills development, help with job applications, CV writing and in-work support. We also work with employers to ensure that people are well supported in their roles.




These are the same DPOs that have joined together to form Disabilty Rights UK even though DRUK website looks seriously cheap and amature. 

Sickens me too that this same DRUK has been chosen to be part of the Governments Disability Action Alliance while milking the system for all it's worth. 

DWP silent on which organisations were tipped off about new ‘alliance’

So much to keep an eye on.. not enough days in the year.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 4, 2012)

http://www.wrexham.com/news/man-jobcentre-threatens-set-alight-12699.html

Yesterday a man in Wrexham threatened to set fire to himself st the job centre after disability benefits were stopped.

On my phone and that link didn't work well so I've not read it through


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 4, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> VP, don't indulge it with a reply. Just report the troll. I have.


 
It's not so much indulgence of a troll as publicly-rebutting the writings of an idiot, so that anyone else with similar delusions has the opportunity to stop and think before spouting similar horse-shit.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Oct 4, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's not so much indulgence of a troll as publicly-rebutting the writings of an idiot, so that anyone else with similar delusions has the opportunity to stop and think before spouting similar horse-shit.


 
Thankfully this asshat seems to have been eradicated from the boards.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Oct 4, 2012)

Oh, just made the connection with this thread. I booted him off for spamming his website, saw the reported post but it led nowhere because I'd previously and independently wielded the spam cleaner.

A spammer with appalling views and dodgy world outlook, who'd've thunk it?


----------



## BigTom (Oct 7, 2012)

I think this is the right thread for this, though it's not about a specific individual

Fear of fitness to work tests driving disabled patients to suicide, say 6% of GPs: 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...patients-to-suicide-say-6-of-gps-8197432.html 



> Six per cent of doctors have experienced a patient who has attempted - or committed - suicide as a result of “undergoing, or fear of undergoing” the Government's fitness to work test.
> 
> A survey of over of 1,000 GPs across the UK by ICM also found that one in five had at least one disabled patient who had thought about suicide because of the test, which is aimed at assessing whether people claiming incapacity benefit are fit to work.
> 
> The survey, highlighted by Exaro, the investigative website, also found 14 per cent had patients who had self-harmed as a result of the test.


 
I want to comment on this survey/story but this is no surprise to any of us. I don't understand how those who support the wca from a position of thinking it's helping disabled people or that we have to have tough tests to weed out fraudsters can see this kind of thing and not question it. I know the tory scum don't care, fine with "useless eaters" killing themselves, it's those in the centre ground I don't get.


----------



## Turboprop (Oct 21, 2012)

I think I might be going to join this list quite soon. I have been growing increasingly depressed over this week. Been having nightmares too, and crying a lot. People like Mark Hoban have no idea how what they say affects people like me. It makes me feel that I am worthless and useless and there is no place for me on this earth. They probably don't care either. I feel right now that I don't belong in society any more and there is no worthwhile future. As well as the depression, I am dealing with a huge amount of pain, and I wish it would just go away. I just don't feel I can handle life any more


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 21, 2012)

Turboprop said:


> I think I might be going to join this list quite soon. I have been growing increasingly depressed over this week. Been having nightmares too, and crying a lot. People like Mark Hoban have no idea how what they say affects people like me. It makes me feel that I am worthless and useless and there is no place for me on this earth. They probably don't care either. I feel right now that I don't belong in society any more and there is no worthwhile future. As well as the depression, I am dealing with a huge amount of pain, and I wish it would just go away. I just don't feel I can handle life any more


 
Ah Turbo.  Really wish you weren't feeling that way, but don't be doing anything like that please.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

Turboprop said:


> I think I might be going to join this list quite soon. I have been growing increasingly depressed over this week. Been having nightmares too, and crying a lot. People like Mark Hoban have no idea how what they say affects people like me. It makes me feel that I am worthless and useless and there is no place for me on this earth. They probably don't care either. I feel right now that I don't belong in society any more and there is no worthwhile future. As well as the depression, I am dealing with a huge amount of pain, and I wish it would just go away. I just don't feel I can handle life any more



It's Hoban, ids and the rest who are worthless, not you. Do you have anyone irl you can/are talking to about how you're feeling?


----------



## Turboprop (Oct 21, 2012)

BigTom said:


> It's Hoban, ids and the rest who are worthless, not you. Do you have anyone irl you can/are talking to about how you're feeling?


 
Thanks Minnie & Big Tom.
I live on my own, which probably doesn't help. I'm seeing my GP this week so I can talk to him, but 10 minutes just isn't enough time. I don't really have anybody I can talk to who would be willing to listen or understand.

It's when you realise that these people  really don't give a shit about us, and there's nothing any of us can realistically do to change things. They're all the same, only in it for themselves and their interests, and fuck everybody else, especially if they have to do their job and make any sort of effort on our behalf. To them we are lower than cockroaches and the sooner they can exterminate us the better things will be for them. I despair, I really do.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

Turboprop said:


> Thanks Minnie & Big Tom.
> I live on my own, which probably doesn't help. I'm seeing my GP this week so I can talk to him, but 10 minutes just isn't enough time. I don't really have anybody I can talk to who would be willing to listen or understand.
> 
> It's when you realise that these people  really don't give a shit about us, and there's nothing any of us can realistically do to change things. They're all the same, only in it for themselves and their interests, and fuck everybody else, especially if they have to do their job and make any sort of effort on our behalf. To them we are lower than cockroaches and the sooner they can exterminate us the better things will be for them. I despair, I really do.



Your gp should be able to refer you on to local mental health services who should have more time than 10 minutes, so do talk to him/her about it. 
It's a shame there's no one in your life you feel would understand, being clinically depressed myself I've got to question whether this is really true or depression talking, but not knowing you obviously i can't say whether there are people you actually can talk to, but I'd suggest you think through people in your life closely and if there is someone you want to talk to then do it even if you feel they won't be interested or understand.

And yeah they are arseholes who couldn't give a fuck about us, and would be quite happy if we died. Let's not give them the satisfaction.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Oct 21, 2012)

Turboprop said:


> Thanks Minnie & Big Tom.
> I live on my own, which probably doesn't help. I'm seeing my GP this week so I can talk to him, but 10 minutes just isn't enough time. I don't really have anybody I can talk to who would be willing to listen or understand.
> 
> It's when you realise that these people really don't give a shit about us, and there's nothing any of us can realistically do to change things. They're all the same, only in it for themselves and their interests, and fuck everybody else, especially if they have to do their job and make any sort of effort on our behalf. To them we are lower than cockroaches and the sooner they can exterminate us the better things will be for them. I despair, I really do.



Don't feel so alone Turbo. *many of us know the feeling* There are a few threads like HERE where you can blow off steam and get support too. xxx


----------



## Frumious B. (Oct 21, 2012)

This shouldn't be taken as medical advice, but it might just help someone who finds that their depression doesn't seem to respond much to SSRIs, e.g, fluoxetine, sertraline etc. I've been on them for years but they haven't stopped me from having episodes like Turboprop's. I started taking quetiapine (aka seroquel) recently, as an adjunct to sertraline. After 2 months the depression has just disappeared - not a twinge. Of course this could be a coincidence, you can't deduce much from a research sample of one. But I asked the pharmacist about it and she said I'm by no means the first person to tell her that it's the only antidepressant that's ever really helped them. It's been prescribed for depression for about eight months. Before that it was only used as an anti-psychotic/mood stabiliser, for schizophrenia and other conditions. I really shouldn't be advertising it, but there are quite a few depressives out there who think they've tried all worthwhile medications. That's how I felt - I just couldn't see any escape. I've had frequent depressive episodes for 20+ years, and tried everything short of ECT or a lobotomy. But all of a sudden I feel completely normal. Stable. The real me, not a drugged-up me. So Turboprop, I hope you keep trying to find an answer. From what you say, you need to be seen by a senior psychiatrist. If you're not currently under the care of one I believe you have the right to insist. Earlier this year I got allocated to the consultant in charge of the CMHT, and last time I saw him we spent nearly two hours talking. So don't put up with 10 mins with a GP, you deserve much, much better treatment than that.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 21, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> This shouldn't be taken as medical advice, but it might just help someone who finds that their depression doesn't seem to respond much to SSRIs, e.g, fluoxetine, sertraline etc. I've been on them for years but they haven't stopped me from having episodes like Turboprop's. I started taking quetiapine (aka seroquel) recently, as an adjunct to sertraline. After 2 months the depression has just disappeared - not a twinge. Of course this could be a coincidence, you can't deduce much from a research sample of one. But I asked the pharmacist about it and she said I'm by no means the first person to tell her that it's the only antidepressant that's ever really helped them. It's been prescribed for depression for about eight months. Before that it was only used as an anti-psychotic/mood stabiliser, for schizophrenia and other conditions. I really shouldn't be advertising it, but there are quite a few depressives out there who think they've tried all worthwhile medications. That's how I felt - I just couldn't see any escape. I've had frequent depressive episodes for 20+ years, and tried everything short of ECT or a lobotomy. But all of a sudden I feel completely normal. Stable. The real me, not a drugged-up me. So Turboprop, I hope you keep trying to find an answer. From what you say, you need to be seen by a senior psychiatrist. If you're not currently under the care of one I believe you have the right to insist. Earlier this year I got allocated to the consultant in charge of the CMHT, and last time I saw him we spent nearly two hours talking. So don't put up with 10 mins with a GP, you deserve much, much better treatment than that.


 
Don't know sod all about ADs but if nice encouraging post


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> This shouldn't be taken as medical advice, but it might just help someone who finds that their depression doesn't seem to respond much to SSRIs, e.g, fluoxetine, sertraline etc. I've been on them for years but they haven't stopped me from having episodes like Turboprop's. I started taking quetiapine (aka seroquel) recently, as an adjunct to sertraline. After 2 months the depression has just disappeared - not a twinge. Of course this could be a coincidence, you can't deduce much from a research sample of one. But I asked the pharmacist about it and she said I'm by no means the first person to tell her that it's the only antidepressant that's ever really helped them. It's been prescribed for depression for about eight months. Before that it was only used as an anti-psychotic/mood stabiliser, for schizophrenia and other conditions. I really shouldn't be advertising it, but there are quite a few depressives out there who think they've tried all worthwhile medications. That's how I felt - I just couldn't see any escape. I've had frequent depressive episodes for 20+ years, and tried everything short of ECT or a lobotomy. But all of a sudden I feel completely normal. Stable. The real me, not a drugged-up me. So Turboprop, I hope you keep trying to find an answer. From what you say, you need to be seen by a senior psychiatrist. If you're not currently under the care of one I believe you have the right to insist. Earlier this year I got allocated to the consultant in charge of the CMHT, and last time I saw him we spent nearly two hours talking. So don't put up with 10 mins with a GP, you deserve much, much better treatment than that.



Imo / ime ADs are basically a lottery, some will fuck you up, some will sort you out (hell even the one that sorts you out can fuck you up on the wrong dosage) and it's just a case of trying different ones and different dosages until you find the right one.
One of my best friends trashes seroxat and it sorts him out like you described but fucked me up badly. I never find an AD that worked for me apart from cannabis which i don't feel right recommending for obvious reasons.
ADs worth exploring though for sure


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 22, 2012)

BigTom said:


> Your gp should be able to refer you on to local mental health services who should have more time than 10 minutes, so do talk to him/her about it.
> It's a shame there's no one in your life you feel would understand, being clinically depressed myself I've got to question whether this is really true or depression talking, but not knowing you obviously i can't say whether there are people you actually can talk to, but I'd suggest you think through people in your life closely and if there is someone you want to talk to then do it even if you feel they won't be interested or understand.
> 
> And yeah they are arseholes who couldn't give a fuck about us, and would be quite happy if we died. Let's not give them the satisfaction.


What he said.
Don't get mad and don't get sad, get bloody-minded and get even.
As for mental health services, if they're doing their job they'll get you stabilized as quickly as posssible, and then plan something a bit longer term.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Oct 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> What he said.
> Don't get mad and don't get sad, get bloody-minded and get even.
> <snip>


What VP said. Getting active on welfare rights, following which new DWP brutalities are in the pipeline and helping those affected by them,and yourself, deal with them is very helpful in getting past helplessness. AND having a damn good shout and bawl on social platforms too.


----------



## shagnasty (Oct 27, 2012)

Try other medications one will probablly suit you best ,but be patiient they do take a while to kick in ,talking to some one will help especially someone you can confide about your feelings


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 1, 2012)

Atos benefits bullies killed my sick dad, says devastated Kieran, 13


> Kieran McArdle told the Daily Record in a harrowing letter how his father Brian, 57, collapsed and died the day after his disability benefits were stopped. He had been assessed by Atos and deemed “fit for work”.
> The youngster said a previous stroke on Boxing Day last year had caused a blood clot on Brian’s brain.
> He was left paralysed down his left side, unable to speak properly, blind in one eye and barely able to eat or dress.
> But he was still summoned to an Atos “work capability assessment” – part of the Con-Dem Government’s drive to cut billions from the welfare bill.
> ...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 1, 2012)

Why did I know this was going to be in the Daily Record?

Seems they're the only ones (other than a few stories in the English papers) with the guts to print these stories


----------



## Greebo (Nov 1, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> Atos benefits bullies killed my sick dad, says devastated Kieran, 13


Liked for the link, not for the death, BTW.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 4, 2012)

The Record also reports that Iain Duncan Smith will be writing to Kieran about his Dad. I'm sure that will fix everything


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 4, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> The Record also reports that Iain Duncan Smith will be writing to Kieran about his Dad. I'm sure that will fix everything


 
IDS must actually be mad - What does he think he can possibly _say_?


----------



## Quartz (Nov 4, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> IDS must actually be mad - What does he think he can possibly _say_?


 
He can admit responsibility and fire ATOS and resign.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 4, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> IDS must actually be mad - What does he think he can possibly _say_?


I know! It's not he can wave a magic wand and give him his dad back. It's a pointless gesture aimed at trying to make IDS look good - if he really wanted to help he should have insisted on the benefits being awarded indefinitely with no assessments so Brian McArdle didn't have to worry.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 4, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> IDS must actually be mad - What does he think he can possibly _say_?


 
_Arbeit macht Frei_?


----------



## albionism (Nov 4, 2012)

IDS is a typical Tory psychopath, no empathy or shame what so ever.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 5, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> _Arbeit macht Frei_?


 
Having a father is a privilege which you can't expect the state to subsidise. It's exactly this culture of entitlement that's brought the country to it's knees.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Having a father is a privilege which you can't expect the state to subsidise. It's exactly this culture of entitlement that's brought the country to it's knees.


Well, quite.  Useless drones the lot of them after doing one of the few things for which a man is essential.  Who need fathers when there are sperm banks?  

Take this to the logical conclusion, take sperm samples from every male tory who isn't already a parent then euthanise the lot.  It makes perfect financial sense.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Well, quite. Useless drones the lot of them after doing one of the few things for which a man is essential. Who need fathers when there are sperm banks?
> 
> Take this to the logical conclusion, take sperm samples from every male tory who isn't already a parent then euthanise the lot. It makes perfect financial sense.


 
Then blow the fucking spunk-banks up.


----------



## teqniq (Nov 13, 2012)

Inquiry call over Mark and Helen Mullins deaths



> A charity worker has called for a full investigation into the deaths of a vulnerable couple whose bodies were found in their Warwickshire home.
> 
> The deaths of Mark and Helen Mullins, from Bedworth, last Thursday, are being treated as "unexplained" by police.
> 
> ...


----------



## ddraig (Nov 13, 2012)

tragic
you know that is from last year not last week?
not that it makes much difference


----------



## teqniq (Nov 13, 2012)

ddraig said:


> tragic
> you know that is from last year not last week?
> not that it makes much difference


Sorry, no I didn't look, someone just posted it on facebook. It is indeed tragic. 

E2A I looked at the date again, it's just over a year ago. A grim anniversary.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 13, 2012)

Don't know if this has already been posted, anyway it's here:
The People's Review of the Work Capability Assessment


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 20, 2012)

ATOS Declares Dead Man Fit for Work



> In a shocking lapse of judgement last week, an assessor from ATOS Origin placed James Wright, 62, in the ‘fit for work’ group mere moments after he had suffered a fatal stroke.
> “It was a nightmare,” Rosemary, Mr. Wright’s widow, stated. “The doctor assessing James asked him to stand up, so he did before slumping into a squatting position. The doctor took one look at him and said, ‘I’m placing you in the Work Program.’
> Then he got up and shook James’s shoulder, and when he fell over, said that he’d be back when James had finished his ‘play-acting.’ It was quite obvious that he was dead.
> What’s worse is that I received a letter from the DWP (Department of Work and Pensions) this morning informing me that James’s Job Seekers’ Allowance had been stopped because of his non-attendance at his work experience. I’d already informed them of his death the day after it happened!”



http://glossynews.com/society/health/201211200120/atos-declares-dead-man-fit-for-work-2/


----------



## Greebo (Nov 20, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> ATOS Declares Dead Man Fit for Work<snip>


Beyond satire.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 20, 2012)

not shocked, sadly


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 20, 2012)

Harringtons new review. It's getting better he says.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 20, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Beyond satire.


 
It is satire isn't it?  It's not real


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 20, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Beyond satire.


 
It *is* satire. Says so in the comments part of the link.
"Many a true word spoken in jest" will probably apply sooner rather than later, though.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 20, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> It is satire isn't it? It's not real


Oops!  Still catching up with myself so didn't bother checking the link.


----------



## Falcon (Nov 20, 2012)

[snip]
Not an appropriate thead. Take it elsewhere


----------



## Greebo (Nov 20, 2012)

Falcon said:


> Can anyone account for the observation that there are societies which have no concept of "Welfare" in which people live happy productive lives in conditions considerably less favourable than ours? Could it be that the Welfare system itself predisposes people to unhappiness, and that the concern of those who's jobs depend on the various operations of the Welfare State amount to nothing more than Münchausen syndrome by proxy?


Start another thread for that please.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2012)

Well there are many aspects to that question. Expectations, consumer culture, control over what is considered to be legitimate economic activity, the industrial revolution and subsequent abandonment of such economic activity in some communities. Land ownership and control, the cost of living, fuel subsidies, the war on drugs, mechanisation, education, urbanisation. How to even begin a comparison on equal terms is therefore a problem.

edit - I agree that another thread would be a better idea.


----------



## Falcon (Nov 20, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Start another thread for that please.


I won't,  but I can understand the request.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 20, 2012)

Falcon said:


> Can anyone account for the observation that there are societies which have no concept of "Welfare" in which people live happy productive lives in conditions considerably less favourable than ours? Could it be that the Welfare system itself predisposes people to unhappiness, and that the concern of those who's jobs depend on the various operations of the Welfare State amount to nothing more than Münchausen syndrome by proxy?


 
You mean countries like India, Philippines, and lots of other countries where it's probably a lot more bearable to sleep on the streets at nighttime than it is on cold UK streets?

BTW:  I realise there's homeless or skint people in cold countries as well, just before you decide to point that out to me


----------



## Falcon (Nov 20, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You mean countries like India, Philippines, and lots of other countries where it's probably a lot more bearable to sleep on the streets at nighttime than it is on cold UK streets?
> 
> BTW: I realise there's homeless or skint people in cold countries as well, just before you decide to point that out to me


As I understand it, the majority of the examples being cited here did not sleep in cold UK streets at night time.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 20, 2012)

Falcon said:


> As I understand it, the majority of the examples being cited here did not sleep in cold UK streets at night time. So I'm not sure what you mean.


 
ah right, but a lot of them have paid taxes and some of them for a long time, with the understanding that they wouldn't be chucked onto the streets when things got tough.

Does it work that way in other countries?


----------



## Falcon (Nov 20, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Does it work that way in other countries?


No, in those countries which meet the needs of the less able by ways other than through a system of agents funded by taxation. Which seems to offer a partial explanation for my question.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 20, 2012)

They do this by letting the poor die in the street.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 20, 2012)

You just don't want to help others with your tax cos you are a cunt.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 20, 2012)

Falcon said:


> No. In those countries which meet the needs of the less able by ways other than through a system of agents funded by taxation. There is no comparable situation. Which seems to offer a partial explanation for my question.


 
Would you like us all to go scavenging on landfill and collecting plastic that we can sell for pennies so we can feed ourselves?

You realise poor people like this are probably not paying taxes don't you?


----------



## Falcon (Nov 20, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Would you like us all to go scavenging on landfill and collecting plastic that we can sell for pennies so we can feed ourselves?
> 
> You realise poor people like this are probably not paying taxes don't you?


Are you arguing that all people who are poor and not protected by a welfare state scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves? Or are you deploying an argument that there are some people who are poor and not protected by a welfare state scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves as justification for a welfare state?

How do you account for the the majority who's life circumstances are considerably less favourable than the poorest in our society that neither require a welfare state, nor scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 20, 2012)

Falcon said:


> Are you arguing that all people who are poor and not protected by a welfare state scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves? Or are you deploying an argument that there are some people who are poor and not protected by a welfare state scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves as justification for the welfare state?
> 
> How do you account for the the majority who's life circumstances are considerably less favourable than the poorest in our society that neither require a welfare state, nor scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves?


 
Course not, just giving examples. 

Can't be arsed to argue as I'm not very articulate or good at explaining myself


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 20, 2012)

Falcon said:


> Are you arguing that all people who are poor and not protected by a welfare state scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves? Or are you deploying an argument that there are some people who are poor and not protected by a welfare state scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves as justification for a welfare state?
> 
> How do you account for the the majority who's life circumstances are considerably less favourable than the poorest in our society that neither require a welfare state, nor scavenge on landfill sites and collect plastic so they can feed themselves?


They do dangerous and unhealthy jobs, get sick and die on the street.
Where would you rather take your chances? Iceland or India?


----------



## Falcon (Nov 21, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> They do dangerous and unhealthy jobs, get sick and die on the street.
> Where would you rather take your chances? Iceland or India?


[snip] I have been directed to pursue that enquiry in a different thread, and I have to respect that.

So why the fuck didn't you?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 21, 2012)

It is an answer. You seem to think we would be better off without a welfare state. This is patently phooey.
If you stop welfare, people will die. Do you want that?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 21, 2012)

It is not 'some' people. In India, if you are poor and old, you get nothing and have to beg on the street or work til you drop. Do more people give alms in India? Of course. Is it a better system than a tax for all that helps pay for pensions, welfare and NHS? Is it fuck.


----------



## Falcon (Nov 21, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> It is an answer. You seem to think we would be better off without a welfare state.


The argument that a welfare state (as currently constituted) might have certain defects, and an argument that we would be better of without a welfare state, are different. You are wrong to confuse them, and I certainly haven't.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 21, 2012)

Is it acceptable for anyone to become destitute or die because of there is no welfare state to help them?


----------



## Falcon (Nov 21, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Is it acceptable for anyone to become destitute or die because of there is no welfare state to help them?


[snip]


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon said:


> The premise of this thread appears to be that welfare reform causes people to commit suicide. The implicit conclusion appears to be that welfare should remain unreformed. The argument appears to be invalid on three grounds: (1) a significant proportion of the examples appear to suffer from mental illnesses which cause sufferers to commit suicide whether or not there is a welfare state, preventing any conclusion of causality (2) a significant number of examples exist that contradict the conclusion i.e. those who's considerably worse life circumstances don't cause them to commit suicide (3) the possibility cannot be discounted that they have committed suicide because of certain, well documented properties of welfare state systems.
> 
> Despite that, the argument may still be true, just not proven. Which is the role of discussion.


It's clear what member refers to in your tagline, more like 'tool' than 'part of a group or team'.

you mention mental health issues. Have you stopped to think that these issues might hsve been a symptom of the position these unfortunate people found themselves in, and not its cause? I wonder what you'd be like if you were strapped for cash on benefits and then the money was taken away. Perhaps we'll find out, eh.


----------



## BigTom (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon said:


> The premise of this thread appears to be that welfare reform causes people to commit suicide. The implicit conclusion appears to be that welfare should remain unreformed. The argument appears to be invalid on three grounds: (1) a significant proportion of the examples appear to suffer from mental illnesses which cause sufferers to commit suicide whether or not there is a welfare state, preventing any conclusion of causality (2) a significant number of examples exist that contradict the conclusion i.e. those who's considerably worse life circumstances don't cause them to commit suicide (3) the possibility cannot be discounted that they have committed suicide because of certain, well documented properties of welfare state systems.
> 
> Despite that, the argument may still be true, just not proven. Which is the role of discussion.



It's not just about suicides, it's also about disabled people who have died of their condition shortly after being declared fit for work. 
If you wish to discuss this aspect there is another thread which Teuchter started titled something like "dodgy atos statistics" where there is some discussion about how /whether we can identify an increased death rate attributable to esa.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon said:


> The premise of this thread appears to be that welfare reform causes people to commit suicide.


 
Not entirely. It may be that they've committed suicide because they're depressed because they're being hounded and hounded left, right and centre and being made to feel like fraudsters and worthless

eta:  I see that's already been said but in a better and more articulate way


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon said:


> Can anyone account for the observation that there are societies which have no concept of "Welfare" in which people live happy productive lives in conditions considerably less favourable than ours?


 
First, let's unpick what "welfare" is, because it means different things in different settings and contexts.
*You*, it appears, are referring to STATE welfare paid to individuals, mostly paid for through taxation and pooled risk insurance schemes (private and public). In other societies welfare can mean anything from private co-operative welfare arrangements to classic "extended family" self-organised assistance.



> Could it be that the Welfare system itself predisposes people to unhappiness, and that the concern of those who's jobs depend on the various operations of the Welfare State amount to nothing more than Münchausen syndrome by proxy?


 
It may well be.
It also might well be that without "the welfare system" people would be less happy than they are, and more prone to, variously, life-compromising illness, nutrition-related disorders and suicide.
Care to make a case for predisposition that doesn't borrow *too* heavily from the work of others?


----------



## Frumious B. (Nov 21, 2012)

I wish this thread hadn't been derailed by an ignorant fool making fatuous remarks. Perhaps he/she/it could start another thread called "Survival of the fittest: how helping the weak dilutes the gene pool."


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon said:


> I won't, but I can understand the request.


 
Then I will. This isn't a thread for this kind of debate, as you'd know if you'd paid any attention to the thread title.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 21, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> I wish this thread hadn't been derailed by an ignorant fool making fatuous remarks. Perhaps he/she/it could start another thread called "Survival of the fittest: how helping the weak dilutes the gene pool."


 
I've posted Falcon's question on a new thread. I know he gets a hard-on doing his "libertarian" (yeah, right!) _schtick_, but he shouldn't do so on what is basically a memorial thread.


----------



## Falcon (Nov 21, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Not entirely. It may be that they've committed suicide because they're depressed because they're being hounded and hounded left, right and centre and being made to feel like fraudsters and worthless


[snip]


----------



## Greebo (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon said:


> I think that is entirely plausible. Marginalisation is one of the many unintended consequences of our conception of welfare.
> 
> I'm sorry (but not surprised) that the enquiry into the real causes of these deaths, as the basis for understanding how to prevent them, has provoked such hostility. If you are genuinely concerned for the welfare of the individuals (rather than, as I suspect, for the welfare of the individuals who administer the welfare system) you would be interested. You would be even more concerned if you suspected (as I do) that a system that depends on a strong tax base and, by extension, the people who depend on that system, are at serious risk under conditions of aggressive fiscal deterioration.<snip>


Fuck the hell off onto the appropriate thread, you self righteous wilfully semi-literate no mark.  This is a memorial thread.  

The debate, and indeed the fight, continues elsewhere.


----------



## elbows (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon I dont understand your reluctance to start a fresh thread, unless you deliberately sought hostility.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 21, 2012)

Falcon said:


> I think that is entirely plausible. Marginalisation is one of the many unintended consequences of our conception of welfare.
> 
> I'm sorry (but not surprised) that the enquiry into the real causes of these deaths, as the basis for understanding how to prevent them, has provoked such hostility. If you are genuinely concerned for the welfare of the individuals (rather than, as I suspect, for the welfare of the individuals who administer the welfare system) you would be interested. You would be even more concerned if you suspected (as I do) that a system that depends on a strong tax base and, by extension, the people who depend on that system, are at serious risk under conditions of aggressive fiscal deterioration.
> 
> Ironically, I am very far from a libertarian, and very concerned about these individuals. Those of you who would close off real debate about how to protect them under conditions of financial collapse (possibly in pursuit of your own self interest) do them a grave disservice.


 
Or maybe we don't all have time to get into long-winded arguments?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Nov 22, 2012)

Falcon said:


> I won't, but I can understand the request.


You will. I've deleted the others. This is not an appropriate thread for you to do this. Start another.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 25, 2012)

> *Mike Sivier* ‏@*MidWalesMike*
> @*UKuncut* Pls share/RT/reblog/ publicise: IDS off the hook with ICC - so evidence needed of Atos deaths http://wp.me/p262ZD-gM


----------



## Falcon (Nov 25, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> You will. I've deleted the others. This is not an appropriate thread for you to do this. Start another.


No. I really won't. The premise of the thread is debatable, the very best memorial would have been to argue why it isn't, and it hasn't been made. The more you snip, the greater your failure.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 25, 2012)

Falcon said:


> No. I really won't. The premise of the thread is debatable, the very best memorial would have been to argue why it isn't, and it hasn't been made. The more you snip, the greater your failure.


 
The premise of the thread is people with disabilities, and their carers memorialising those who have died, perhaps because of the stress of applying for ESA. The premise of the thread isn't what you believe it to be.
So how about acting with grace, rather than like a cunt? Whoops, obviously your self-image is such that you can't possibly be a cunt. After all, someone who can declare, straight-faced, that "the more you snip, the greater your failure" doesn't at all manifest ego and arrogance commensurate with cuntishness.


----------



## Falcon (Nov 25, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> The premise of the thread is people with disabilities, and their carers memorialising those who have died, perhaps because of the stress of applying for ESA.The premise of the thread isn't what you believe it to be. So how about acting with grace, rather than like a cunt?


And what would grace look like? Wondering if such deaths could be understood and avoided? Or passively noting it, and labelling a cunt anyone who asks such a question?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 25, 2012)

Falcon said:


> What would grace look like? Wondering if such deaths could be understood and avoided? Or labelling a cunt anyone who asks such a question?


 
Post a thread asking the question and you won't be labelled a cunt (only you're being labelled, by the way, not "anyone"). *That* is what grace would look like. If you're too self-absorbed to realise that your petulant truculence reveals you as a no-mark of extreme cuntitude, that's hardly the problem of people on this thread.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Nov 25, 2012)

Falcon wouldn't dream of living like a happy impoverished Indian.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 25, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Falcon wouldn't dream of living like a happy impoverished Indian.


 
He's probably going to tell us he's lived in the slums of India now doing relief work


----------



## Falcon (Nov 25, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Post a thread asking the question and you won't be labelled a cunt (only you're being labelled, by the way, not "anyone"). *That* is what grace would look like. If you're too self-absorbed to realise that your petulant truculence reveals you as a no-mark of extreme cuntitude, that's hardly the problem of people on this thread.


OK, I'm done. A thread raised by those who's jobs depend on it being true that people need their help is impossibly compromised by self interest. Your foul mouth only underscores it.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 25, 2012)

Falcon said:


> OK, I'm done. A thread raised by those who's jobs depend on it being true that people need their help is impossibly compromised by self interest. Your foul mouth only underscores it.


Falcon, sweetie, the carers mentioned on this thread are generally unpaid partners, relatives or friends, *not paid careworkers.*  Their jobs don't depend on somebody being disabled or sick; on the contrary, in many cases they will have put at least part of their own lives on hold.  

If you genuinely didn't realise that "carer" is supposed to only ever refer to the unpaid variety then I pity you.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 26, 2012)

Falcon said:


> OK, I'm done. A thread raised by those who's jobs depend on it being true that people need their help is impossibly compromised by self interest. Your foul mouth only underscores it.


 
Fuck the fuck off, you worthless shitehawk cunt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Fuck the fuck off, you worthless shitehawk cunt.


I'd have been harsher myself.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 26, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I'd have been harsher myself.


 
I'm feeling exceptionally mellow at the moment, so I went easy.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 26, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I'd have been harsher myself.


In VP's defence, he's still a bit blissed out at the moment, post-migraine and er other stuff which would be TMI.


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 30, 2012)

SWP get a slap for turning a tragedy into a sloppy political point
"
Don’t turn Declan into a stereotype
I am writing to correct Mr Ruairi O’Neill (Letters, 17 November). He states that “on 1 November the crisis in Ireland and Europe took on a clear face and a tragic story for me. Declan Gilmartin, 22, from Leitrum hanged himself in north London”.

The fact is Declan Gilmartin died on 2 November and Leitrim is the correct spelling of this county in Ireland.

Mr O’Neill is correct when he says “Like many young people from Ireland, economic conditions drove him to seek work abroad. He moved out of necessity rather than choice.”

However, the process did not make Declan “alienated and lonely”. He had family and friends in London before he arrived and he made numerous friends during his three years in Cricklewood.

He was a well respected and a well known young man in a very close knit Irish community. Declan played football for the GAA Garryowen football club.

The outstanding reception the Gilmartin family received from the Irish community reflects that this young man was by no means alienated and lonely. Over a hundred people gathered in St Agnes church in Cricklewood on Friday 9 November to offer their condolences and pay their respects to the family. Many of these people followed Declan to Ireland to bring him to his final resting place and attend his removal and funeral.

On the other hand, Mr O’Neill is correct when he describes how “Ireland is losing a generation. Some 182,900 15 to 29 year olds have left since the crisis began. Many then face real social problems without the support networks they grew up with.”

This is non-applicable to Declan Gilmartin, there is a Leitrim association in London. In Ireland, the GAA is the heart of every community and this is truly the case with the Garryowen football club.

London has numerous support networks for Irish emigrants, after all, the truth of the matter is, London is and traditionally always has been a very popular destination for Irish emigrants in this economic crisis and previous economic crises throughout Irish history.

Mr O’Neill emphasises that “Capitalism seeks to alienate and divide us, and we strive to offer a socialist alternative. But the only option Declan felt he had was to take his own life”.

Declan Gilmartin’s death was suicide by misadventure; it was not pre-planned or pre-meditated. This shows little respect for the Gilmartin family and his many friends, no consideration was given. Mr O’Neill makes an uneducated hypothesis and uses the tragic death of a young man as a case study which does not support the main theme of his letter.

I know the facts and I am educated to talk about this issue because I am Declan Gilmartin’s sister and our family have much appreciated respect and gratitude for the Irish support networks in London.

It is obvious Mr O’Neill did no previous research before writing. The grammar used was notorious. One can only wonder what University this so called writer Mr O’Neill attended.

Educate yourself before writing. In the words of Saint Augustine of Hippo: “The world is a book and those who do not travel read only one page.”

Karen Gilmartin, County Leitrim, Ireland"


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 30, 2012)

Ruairi O’Neill can't even spell Leitrim?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Dec 1, 2012)

Just came across this 



> *WORK CAPABILITY ASSESSMENT AND DAY OF REMEMBRANCE*
> 
> 
> Session: 2012-13
> ...


 
http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/687



> National Remembrance for the DWP/ATOS Dead


https://www.facebook.com/groups/420430254683362/

Erm.... :/


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Ruairi O’Neill can't even spell Leitrim?


yeh, it's pisspoor


----------



## Frankie Jack (Dec 14, 2012)

Shelton benefits blunder victim Chris Cann dies



> TRIPLE amputee Chris Cann has been found dead in his house – just months after being told he had to undergo a medical assessment to prove he could not work.
> Police were called to the address in Cauldon Road, Shelton, on Saturday evening after a carer found the 57-year-old's body.
> 
> ​
> ...



Cheerio lad.


----------



## Falcon (Dec 19, 2012)

Greebo said:


> If you genuinely didn't realise that "carer" is supposed to only ever refer to the unpaid variety then I pity you.


 
If.

No pity required. But thanks.


----------



## Greebo (Dec 19, 2012)

Falcon said:


> If.
> 
> No pity required. But thanks.


Then fuck off you scumbag, how very bloody dare you imply even for one second that I (as one of the carers you referred to) live off my disabled husband!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 19, 2012)

Is Falcon back again?  Thought he got the boot?


----------



## Greebo (Dec 19, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Is Falcon back again? Thought he got the boot?


He's still being a member.


----------



## Falcon (Dec 19, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Then fuck off you scumbag, how very bloody dare you imply even for one second that I (as one of the carers you referred to) live off my disabled husband!


But I'm not. I seem to be the only one who is actually interested in understanding what it is about our system that causes people to choose to end their lives rather than carry on living. I've been advised that this is an inappropriate question to ask in a thread which is intended to passively record the fact of their deaths. All that is left for me to do is to correct the most obvious misdirections.


----------



## Falcon (Dec 19, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Is Falcon back again? Thought he got the boot?


For what, exactly? Inappropriate concern?


----------



## Greebo (Dec 19, 2012)

Falcon said:


> But I'm not. I seem to be the only one who is actually interested in understanding what it is about our system that causes people to choose to end their lives rather than carry on living. I've been advised that this is an inappropriate question to ask in a thread which is intended to passively record the fact of their deaths. All that is left for me to do is to correct the most obvious misdirections.


Congratulations, sweetie, you're now on ignore.  Your question is better asked on another thread.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 19, 2012)

Falcon said:


> For what, exactly? Inappropriate concern?


 
Just hadn't seen you.  Thought you might have upset someone and got yourself a barring


----------



## Firky (Dec 19, 2012)

.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 20, 2012)

Though this should get crossposted from the poverty campaign thread, though there's no name so this case could already have been mentioned here, but I don't think so as Ian Lavery MP says he doesn't want to identify the family.

MP Ian Lavery blames constituent's suicide on benefits cuts

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nort...n-benefits-cuts-72703-32463397/#ixzz2FZpsNyQx



> A MAN’S suicide has been blamed on the Government’s harsh disability benefits cuts.
> 
> MP Ian Lavery has told the Prime Minister to stop rushing into cuts for the vulnerable after the Wansbeck MP found a copy of a suicide note in his post.
> 
> ...


 
video here: http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/update/2012-12-19/local-mp-challenges-cameron-disability-benefits/


----------



## BigTom (Dec 28, 2012)

http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/fears-over-benefits-led-to-tragedy-1.1024319?referrerPath=home

Fears over benefits led to tragedy



> A “VULNERABLE’’ disabled man who took his own life felt pressurised by changes to the benefits system, says his partner.
> 
> Christine Graham discovered Peter Hodgson dead at his home just a day after he received a text telling him to attend the Job Centre.
> 
> ...


----------



## cesare (Dec 28, 2012)




----------



## Greebo (Dec 28, 2012)

BigTom said:


> http://www.whitehavennews.co.uk/news/fears-over-benefits-led-to-tragedy-1.1024319?referrerPath=home
> 
> Fears over benefits led to tragedy


Thank you for adding this - it makes me so bloody angry that the system now treats even the most obviously vulnerable claimants as undeserving.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Dec 29, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Thank you for adding this - it makes me so bloody angry that the system now treats even the most obviously vulnerable claimants as undeserving.


 
I was reading that story this morning and was going to post it here...I had to step away for a bit though because, well... 

The 'undeserving poor' rhetoric is rife atm and rage-invokingly Victorian/conservative/privileged in perspective.


----------



## existentialist (Dec 29, 2012)

Falcon said:


> But I'm not. I seem to be the only one who is actually interested in understanding what it is about our system that causes people to choose to end their lives rather than carry on living. I've been advised that this is an inappropriate question to ask in a thread which is intended to passively record the fact of their deaths. All that is left for me to do is to correct the most obvious misdirections.


I am always very suspicious when people refer to people who attempt suicide as "choos[ing] to end their lives": it betrays a complete failure to understand the mindset that leads to suicide.

Only in the most vanishingly smallest proportion of suicide attempts is a "choice" being made in the sense we would usually think of as being a choice. Most people who attempt suicide, regardless of whether they die in the process, are not making a "choice" to do so - they feel that they have no choice BUT to kill themselves.

Given your other posts on the subject, I find it hard to believe that your ignorance is purely innocent, and I suspect you're probably using the phrase you used as a way of implying that these people are opting for suicide as one of a range of possibilities - especially given your nice little sting in the tail of "...rather than carry on living", as if that is the noble goal we should all aspire to.

I work daily with suicidal people _in extremis_, some of whom are benefits claimants, some of those themselves subject to the whole ATOS/DWP review process. To generalise massively, these are people who have watched their options narrow thanks to their illnesses (physical and/or mental), and are watching them still narrow as more and more support is removed from them. The lucky ones are those without the imagination to look ahead and speculate where that narrowing of their options leads them; those with a little more insight fear a point being arrived at where there will be nothing to support them, and where they, and often their families, will be left with nothing. To those people, "carrying on living" does not look like a realistic option, and the fact that many of them do is more because that's the default case, and that suicide would require some kind of proactive action.

That more people haven't died by their own hand (yet), is in my view, testament to the inertia and powerlessness many of them feel. Push them hard enough, though - or make them angry enough - and you give a huge swathe of the population both the rationale and the motivation to demonstrate that anger in the most self-destructive way possible.

Sometimes, in my work, it is hard to listen to someone who is making the most cogent case for killing themselves (or just giving up, which will be how a lot of the more severely disabled die - stopping medication, not going out to appointments, and just withdrawing) without wanting to agree: why would ANYONE want to carry on living when their daily life is a battle with Kafkaesque bureaucracy on top of physical illness, maybe constant pain, and anxiety about the future, especially when all that is conducted against a background of sneeringly negative propaganda about "strivers", "benefits cheats", "burden on society", etc?


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## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2012)

Bravo, existentialist!


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## Frances Lengel (Dec 29, 2012)

Superb post @existentialist.


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## Frumious B. (Dec 29, 2012)

Existentialist, is anyone tracking the suicide rate and the numbers attributable to the reforms?  I'd like to know how much  blood the reformers have on their hands.


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## Frankie Jack (Dec 29, 2012)

Great post @Existentialist.


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## existentialist (Dec 29, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> Existentialist, is anyone tracking the suicide rate and the numbers attributable to the reforms? I'd like to know how much blood the reformers have on their hands.


Professionally speaking, I don't think so: it is notoriously hard to legally determine whether a death is due to suicide, far less attribute a specific cause to it. And, fortunately, my profession is one in which my focus is on the living, not the dead, and I am yet to lose one yet (perhaps that's what exercises me - that my "record" might be blemished by such a loss?).

All I can offer is my own anecdotal experience that people who would otherwise be "merely" suffering are now "grievously" suffering, not only from their own health difficulties and their own guilt/stress at having to rely on State handouts, but from the evident disdain society in general tends to show them for their need, and in particular the sense that so many of them have of being misunderstood.

If I am honest, it is highly unlikely that I will professionally encounter the kind of person the Government is clearly targeting - those who have set out to deliberately and cynically defraud the system. After all, those people aren't going through the self-doubt and pain of feeling judged by society, as they have already decided to transcend that by making their own decision to "game" the system. But even Government figures say that the losses due to general benefit fraud are only 0.5%, so I am assuming that this "invisible" (to me) group represents only the tiniest minority of claimants; for me, the fact that the rest of them - including the people I see - are suffering so terribly for the alleged sins of that minority is very, very telling. What I _think_ I am seeing is an innocent majority being made, purely for the purposes of political propaganda, to pay a very heavy price for the sins of the unrepresentative minority.

That offends me, especially where such political cynicism can be so clearly, if not demonstrably, linked to suicidality.


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## equationgirl (Dec 29, 2012)

Another great post @existentialist


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## Frances Lengel (Dec 29, 2012)

Even among those who admit to trying to graft the system, it's still not black & white IMO - Few (if any) would like to be thought of or pitied as victims & most people put on a bit of a front to the world, so it's far from inconcievable that someone would loudly proclaim their lack of intention of ever doing a days work in their lives and instead claiming whatever benefits they can when the reality is they (due to whatever circumstances, could be geographical location, lack of marketable skills, childcare hassles, health issues- mental or physical, criminal record etc ad infinitum) don't stand much chance of ever obtaining meaningful work & so try to portray themselves as people who've rejected work and chosen to remain on benefit coz that's better for their self esteem. Dunno if I've explained that very well though.

E2a though, yeah another superb post existentialist.


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## kittyP (Dec 29, 2012)

So for 0.5% of claimants, all are made to feel fraudulent? 
Guilty before proven innocent?


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## Frances Lengel (Dec 29, 2012)

kittyP said:


> So for 0.5% of claimants, all are made to feel fraudulent?
> Guilty before proven innocent?


 
That _is_ how it is - You used to always see people (probably still do, now more than ever) at Albert Bridge House turning up for their medicals in their best clothes an such, thinking coz they'd paid their stamp then now they'd hit hard times they'd be provided for and finding out different but fast.


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## Treacle Toes (Dec 30, 2012)

*Benefits Cuts, suicides and deaths.*

http://politicsuk.eu/archives/12537


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## kittyP (Dec 30, 2012)

Fuck


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## Frumious B. (Dec 30, 2012)

Seems to me that one of the key failures built in to the reformed system is that it's not designed with the mentally ill in mind. Presumably civil servants and ministers are assuming that those who can't deal with the paperwork will be helped with it. But helped by whom? Is there an assumption that care workers or relatives or charities will fill the gap? What is the 'official' theory?


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## existentialist (Dec 30, 2012)

I really don't think there is one. I think that, in line with the idea that if the disabled and jobless just tried a bit harder they'd find work, these people are operating on the premise that if the mentals just pulled themselves together and snapped out of it, they'd be fine.


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## cesare (Dec 30, 2012)

existentialist said:


> I really don't think there is one. I think that, in line with the idea that if the disabled and jobless just tried a bit harder they'd find work, these people are operating on the premise that if the mentals just pulled themselves together and snapped out of it, they'd be fine.


I think you're right


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## Treacle Toes (Dec 30, 2012)

existentialist said:


> I really don't think there is one. I think that, in line with the idea that if the disabled and jobless just tried a bit harder they'd find work, these people are operating on the premise that if the mentals just pulled themselves together and snapped out of it, they'd be fine.


 
This is very much evident/mirrored in the attempts at 'standardisation' of/within mental health services, making targets and abstract measures the basis for funding and review etc...


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## existentialist (Dec 30, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> This is very much evident/mirrored in the attempts at 'standardisation' of/within mental health services, making targets and abstract measures the basis for funding and review etc...


From my clients' experience at both ATOS medicals and interactions with DWP types, there is a clear sense, at least from their point of view, that their mental health issues are regarded as rather irrelevant to the whole business.

So far as I can tell, non-psychotic illness is irrelevant, and then psychotic illness - if they can be persuaded to take notice of it - is simply terrifying, to the point that a couple of people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia whom I have known have not even been called for assessment.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2012)

kittyP said:


> So for 0.5% of claimants, all are made to feel fraudulent?
> Guilty before proven innocent?


 
Effectively.


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## Frumious B. (Dec 30, 2012)

I'm helping someone with paranoid schizophrenia and acute psychosis. After 17 years on IB he was called for an ATOS assessment and declared fit for work. He thinks it was because he walked to the assessment centre. The ATOS person didn't ask why he'd walked, despite constant pain from back and hip injuries - it's because he's claustrophobic and can't get on a bus. His IB was stopped, then his housing benefit, then he got an eviction notice from the Council (he lives in a council flat), then he ran out of money for food, then he got very concerned that he shouldn't be taking his Codeine on an empty stomach.  Then I offered help and got a crisis loan and put in an ESA appeal etc. He's much improved, but he was pretty close to killing himself. Who should really be helping him? Does anyone have a duty of care?  The council know something of his circumstances, as they put him in the flat after he was unsectioned and discharged from a psych ward 17 years ago. Is there a council mechanism which should have kicked in to at least stop him being evicted? Or is his GP supposed to raise the alarm?  

He didn't have a regular GP - he would see the duty one or a locum or whatever. I've since registered him with my GP and am getting him a full MoT and referrals to multiple specialists. I accompany him to his medical appointments. He can be very 'challenging' to talk to - he really needs someone to manage his care, benefits, finances etc. He's not in contact with any relatives, so who's supposed to help him, if anyone?


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> Seems to me that one of the key failures built in to the reformed system is that it's not designed with the mentally ill in mind. Presumably civil servants and ministers are assuming that those who can't deal with the paperwork will be helped with it. But helped by whom? Is there an assumption that care workers or relatives or charities will fill the gap? What is the 'official' theory?


 
Well, there is the rub. There isn't one, just a set of assumptions, often (as you suggest) rooted around parts of "the third sector" (i.e. charities) picking up the slack for those people who fall through the ever-enlarging mesh of the "welfare safety net".
The problem with such assumptions is that they're predicated on charities having a reasonable, sustained and sustainable income. Given that a majority of the larger relevant charities chose to take government support as part of a Faustian pact to act as service providers to people with physical and mental health issues, and that *that support* was cut along with every other supposedly non-essential cost to the Treasury, the assumptions are metaphorical castles built on sand - they're without foundation.

So what we actually have are massively-stretched and often voluntary services being stretched to breaking point by their attempts to fill the gap left by the state and the money-chasing charities, and with each extra month of "austerity" more of those hard-pressed services fail, either because demand is too heavy to manage, or because volunteers burn out under the caseload.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2012)

existentialist said:


> I really don't think there is one. I think that, in line with the idea that if the disabled and jobless just tried a bit harder they'd find work, these people are operating on the premise that if the mentals just pulled themselves together and snapped out of it, they'd be fine.


 
Putting on my Delphic oracle hat, I'm just wondering how long it will be before some poor bastard with physical or mental health issues decides that enough is enough, and goes out to bag themselves a politician's head for the mantlepiece.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> This is very much evident/mirrored in the attempts at 'standardisation' of/within mental health services, making targets and abstract measures the basis for funding and review etc...


 
Wow. I remember how well that worked back in the '80s and '90s with "Care in the Community".   Loads of local authorities didn't have the budgetary slack to absorb the extra people at the degree of service provision required, so the government basing its' criteria on "arses parked" rather than any form of health or lifestyle outcome for the ex-patients/inmates was a gift to them, although not for the ex-patients/inmates.


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## Frankie Jack (Dec 30, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Putting on my Delphic oracle hat, I'm just wondering how long it will be before some poor bastard with physical or mental health issues decides that enough is enough, and goes out to bag themselves a politician's head for the mantlepiece.


I'm sure there are a few, myself included, that have that scenario run through their head often.


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## existentialist (Dec 30, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> He's not in contact with any relatives, so who's supposed to help him, if anyone?


I have a client in a similar situation. Typically, people with schizophrenia are notoriously non-compliant, but I get the impression that all of the public agencies (from mental health teams to housing departments) are very happy, when a service user announces, say, that they aren't ill, or doesn't need help, to take those claims at face value despite evidence to the contrary. I've seen it frequently with CMHTs, and I have heard of it going on elsewhere, too. Plus, as you point out, people with schizophrenia can be quite challenging/frightening to deal with, and it is often easier for staff to find excuses not to have anything to do with them than go the extra 9 yards, perhaps in the face of the service user's stated wishes.

We often get disasters - it is not at all unknown for people with serious mental health issues to recognise that they are becoming dangerous, to themselves or others, and quite a few of the serious killings or suicides that have happened over the last few decades were not without their warnings. I fear that an increasingly stretched and demoralised support system is going to make fragile and ill people more likely to go off the rails, and the system less likely to be capable of spotting the signs and averting yet another disaster.

I don't want to come over all Cassandra about this, but I think this withdrawal of support from society's most vulnerable is going to reap the whirlwind, and it may well be that dramatic increases in rates of suicide are not the worst problem we shall see.


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## existentialist (Dec 30, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> So what we actually have are massively-stretched and often voluntary services being stretched to breaking point by their attempts to fill the gap left by the state and the money-chasing charities, and with each extra month of "austerity" more of those hard-pressed services fail, either because demand is too heavy to manage, or because volunteers burn out under the caseload.


Not just volunteers, either. Professionals are finding themselves increasingly stretched, to a point where our professional and ethical obligations are increasingly impossible to maintain in the face of increasing demand (both in terms of numbers and severity), and reductions in support and funding. I am going to have to bale out of this game soon, because I simply cannot afford to continue sustaining the increasing costs of living while my salary remains frozen for three years so far, and with at least another 2 to come.

And I'm not the only one. I despair of how bad things are going to get.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2012)

Frankie Jack said:


> I'm sure there are a few, myself included, that have that scenario run through their head often.


 
Yup. I've contemplated a "home run" myself. Even said to Greebo that if I were diagnosed with an incurable something or other, I'd see how far I could get working my way through our 600-odd MPs.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2012)

existentialist said:


> Not just volunteers, either. Professionals are finding themselves increasingly stretched, to a point where our professional and ethical obligations are increasingly impossible to maintain in the face of increasing demand (both in terms of numbers and severity), and reductions in support and funding. I am going to have to bale out of this game soon, because I simply cannot afford to continue sustaining the increasing costs of living while my salary remains frozen for three years so far, and with at least another 2 to come.
> 
> And I'm not the only one. I despair of how bad things are going to get.


 
Oh, I totally agree that professionals too are at breaking-point, I was elucidating on the voluntary sector because if nothing else it highlights the bankruptcy of the whole "big society" _schtick_, which should *never* have been about using volunteers in order to minimise costs, but should have been about a secondary tier of committed people *supporting* the professionals.


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## toggle (Dec 30, 2012)

existentialist said:


> I don't want to come over all Cassandra about this, but I think this withdrawal of support from society's most vulnerable is going to reap the whirlwind, and it may well be that dramatic increases in rates of suicide are not the worst problem we shall see.


 
the result won't be to blame the system, it will be to blame the person with the condition, even if they had sought help. the result will be another case where the public is told to fear everyone with the condition. to be more prejudiced against those with it, and leading to more and more people being harassed or otherwise abused for being ill or just negleted cause the gvt assumes people have a support network that just isn't there. @bakunin used to use a MH drop in center in plymouth. people's families were disowning them on being informed of a diagnosis, cause of the fear and prejudice.


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## existentialist (Dec 30, 2012)

toggle said:


> the result won't be to blame the system, it will be to blame the person with the condition, even if they had sought help.


Yes. I fear that we are losing a great deal of the much-needed progress we'd made in destigmatising mental illness over the last few years.



toggle said:


> the result will be another case where the public is told to fear everyone with the condition. to be more prejudiced against those with it, and leading to more and more people being harassed or otherwise abused for being ill or just negleted cause the gvt assumes people have a support network that just isn't there. @bakunin used to use a MH drop in center in plymouth. people's families were disowning them on being informed of a diagnosis, cause of the fear and prejudice.


They won't need to be "told" to fear - that will come naturally. We are creating a society (again) where a wedge is being driven between those who can manage to cope on their own resources, or access help easily, and those who can't. Inevitably, the former will tend to perceive the latter as a threat - as we ARE being told to do, with the rhetoric of deserving vs undeserving poor - while the self-fulfilling prophecy of marginalising the mentally ill will ensure that desperate, unsupported people will behave in increasingly desperate and frightening ways...which will simply reinforce the stereotypes and stigmas and so it goes around again.

If my piss weren't boiling enough at what this government is doing to people *today*, the thought of how long it will take to unravel the harms they are doing in the long-term just in terms of perception of people with disabilities, mental health problems, or chronically workless lifestyles is definitely going to do the job...


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## Frumious B. (Dec 30, 2012)

Maybe a crunch will come next year - when they stop paying ESA to those waiting for their appeal. That should cause a sharp increase in all manner of 'incidents', many of them fatal.


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## toggle (Dec 30, 2012)

IMO, There are certainly sections of the media that do deliberately promote fear of mental illness. that's where the 'told to fear' comes from. they have a fucking field day telling us every time someone loopy does somethin horrendous. giving the idea that all are dangerous


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## existentialist (Dec 30, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> Maybe a crunch will come next year - when they stop paying ESA to those waiting for their appeal. That should cause a sharp increase in all manner of 'incidents', many of them fatal.


I think that will be the tipping point, yes. Particularly as, this time, people have an idea of what's coming.


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## existentialist (Dec 30, 2012)

toggle said:


> IMO, There are certainly sections of the media that do deliberately promote fear of mental illness. that's where the 'told to fear' comes from. they have a fucking field day telling us every time someone loopy does somethin horrendous. giving the idea that all are dangerous


Yeah, I hadn't really thought about the "ghoul factor". You're right


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## Frankie Jack (Dec 30, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yup. I've contemplated a "home run" myself. Even said to Greebo that if I were diagnosed with an incurable something or other, I'd see how far I could get working my way through our 600-odd MPs.


Ditto.....


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2012)

Frumious B. said:


> Maybe a crunch will come next year - when they stop paying ESA to those waiting for their appeal. That should cause a sharp increase in all manner of 'incidents', many of them fatal.


 
I made a similar prediction on the "who predicts a riot?" thread. There's a lot of welfare changes kicking in in 2013, plus the latest round of "austerity" cuts on local authority and NHS services, plus the ever-increasing burden on charities causing those charities to withdraw entirely from voluntary provision.


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## Bakunin (Dec 30, 2012)

toggle said:


> IMO, There are certainly sections of the media that do deliberately promote fear of mental illness. that's where the 'told to fear' comes from.


 
It sells papers, they just substitute the 'Reds under the bed' for some other form of misunderstood and probably harmless bogeymen who then become the Devil Incarnate. There's an old saying in American TV news which is 'If it bleeds, it leads' so they love stories about mentally or psychologically damaged people doing dreadful things while seldom even mentioning that the other 95% of us are no more of a risk than anyone else.



> they have a fucking field day telling us every time someone loopy does something horrendous. giving the idea that all are dangerous


 
Same reason, media outlets exist to boost circulation and profits. If it were more profitable to give a balanced view instead of selling more papers when they mix somebody's blood with the printer's ink then they'd do that instead.


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## ericjarvis (Dec 30, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Putting on my Delphic oracle hat, I'm just wondering how long it will be before some poor bastard with physical or mental health issues decides that enough is enough, and goes out to bag themselves a politician's head for the mantlepiece.


 
I have already made the decision to take that option over suicide when I reach the point I simply can't cope. Though I'll actually aim for taking a baseball bat to IDS's knees.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 31, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> I have already made the decision to take that option over suicide when I reach the point I simply can't cope. Though I'll actually aim for taking a baseball bat to IDS's knees.


 
Shot-weighted walking stick. You won't get close enough carrying a baseball bat.


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## equationgirl (Dec 31, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yup. I've contemplated a "home run" myself. Even said to Greebo that if I were diagnosed with an incurable something or other, I'd see how far I could get working my way through our 600-odd MPs.


It's good to have goals, VP


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## equationgirl (Dec 31, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Shot-weighted walking stick. You won't get close enough carrying a baseball bat.


Swordstick? Poison pellet umbrella?


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## Frankie Jack (Jan 1, 2013)

Rip his throat out with my teeth..


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## Frances Lengel (Jan 1, 2013)

Frankie Jack said:


> Rip his throat out with my teeth..


 
I've been in a few fights where my lack of front teeth has been a distinct liability - From experience I can tell you there's very little mileage in  asking "hang on while I _gum_ you into submission". Biting does get you out of all kinds of shit - But only if you've got the teeth for it.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jan 1, 2013)




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## ViolentPanda (Jan 1, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> Swordstick? Poison pellet umbrella?


 
Well, I'm looking at it from a point of view of actually being able to get near enough to finish the job, so the umbrella would only work on a day where rain was predicted - you'd look a tad odd carrying an umbrella on a clear summers' day (do you have those in Edinburgh  ) - and swordsticks are hard to get hold of and very expensive. A blow to the knee (or the neck) with a weighted stick, though, will have the same effect as an ASP, with the added advantage of no-one questioning why a person with a limp would be carrying a walking stick on a clear summers' day.


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## equationgirl (Jan 1, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Well, I'm looking at it from a point of view of actually being able to get near enough to finish the job, so the umbrella would only work on a day where rain was predicted - you'd look a tad odd carrying an umbrella on a clear summers' day (do you have those in Edinburgh  ) - and swordsticks are hard to get hold of and very expensive. A blow to the knee (or the neck) with a weighted stick, though, will have the same effect as an ASP, with the added advantage of no-one questioning why a person with a limp would be carrying a walking stick on a clear summers' day.


Not that you've put any thought into this at all...


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## ericjarvis (Jan 3, 2013)

Anyone got a spare walking stick?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 3, 2013)

ericjarvis said:


> Anyone got a spare walking stick?


 
Shit, if you'd posted this earlier, I could have nabbed one for you.  Was in hospital today and someone had left one, but they may have come back to reclaim it 

Have some kind of walking pole that himself's never used but it's not got a very wide bottom (that's assuming I didn't bin it)


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## ericjarvis (Jan 3, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Shit, if you'd posted this earlier, I could have nabbed one for you. Was in hospital today and someone had left one, but they may have come back to reclaim it
> 
> Have some kind of walking pole that himself's never used but it's not got a very wide bottom (that's assuming I didn't bin it)


 
I've only got a walking frame. Which is suitably heavy, but not easy to swing accurately enough, there could be collateral damage.


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## Greebo (Jan 3, 2013)

ericjarvis said:


> Anyone got a spare walking stick?


No, but there are plenty of adjustable metal ones for sale, including at that medical supplies shop in Streatham if you don't want to use ebay.


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## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2013)

I think some of these have been covered before but got this from graun CIF
*Benefit bureaucrats Atos killed my father, says 13-year-old boy*
http://www.scotsman.com/news/health...lled-my-father-says-13-year-old-boy-1-2610249
*Blinded, half-paralysed man dies day after Atos stop his benefits*
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2012/11/disabled-man-dies-after-atos-stops-benefits-chris-grayling/
*A CYSTIC fibrosis sufferer recovering from a double lung transplant has had her benefits cut by 85 per cent.*
*Louise Davidson, 20, who has struggled with the condition since birth, had been receiving £130 a week. She must now survive on £21.*
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/lung-transplant-patients-benefits-cash-1499539
*DAVID Cameron has been urged to look again at disability benefit changes after a Northumberland man committed suicide when told he would lose all support.*
*Wansbeck MP Ian Lavery told a stunned House of Commons that he had received a copy of a suicide note written by a housebound 54-year-old man in his constituency who took his own life after a battle with the Department for Work and Pensions.*
http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...objectid=32464423&siteid=61634-name_page.html
*Get ready for work: what woman who needs constant care was told*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/oct/03/work-woman-care
*Atos Disability Benefits Row: Epileptic Colin Traynor's Death Blamed On Stress Of Being Found 'Fit For Work*
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...nefits-colin-traynor-epilepsy-_n_1917042.html
*Man with terminal brain cancer told he's 'fit for work'*
http://politics.co.uk/news/2012/11/12/man-with-terminal-brain-cancer-told-he-s-fit-for-work
*Ex-RAF serviceman from Lincoln kept alive by portable machine has benefits stopped*
http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk...ive-portable/story-17573783-detail/story.html
*Atos scandal: Benefits bosses admit over half of people ruled fit to work ended up destitute*
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/atos-scandal-benefits-bosses-admit-1344278
*New GP survey shows Government welfare test is pushing vulnerable people to the brink*
http://www.rethink.org/how_we_can_h...ional_press_releases/new_gp_survey_shows.html
*MSPs hear UK welfare reforms 'force blind man to beg'*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19639952
*Birmingham dad dies of heart condition after being ruled 'fit for work'*
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birmingham-dad-dies-of-heart-condition-187961
*Benefits appeal woman Cecilia Burns from Strabane has died*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northe...ine&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
*Fury as Tory welfare police order kidney dialysis patient Paul Mickleburgh back to work*
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/health/fury-as-tory-welfare-police-order-857001
*Demand for fairer benefits tests as two die*
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/demand-for-fairer-benefits-tests-as-two-die-1.1085915
*Stress of Tory benefits tests killed our dad, family claims*
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new


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## Greebo (Jan 5, 2013)

shagnasty said:


> I think some of these have been covered before but got this from graun CIF
> *<snip>*


Thanks for posting all of those.  It's not pleasant, but it's worth passing onto anyone who might not have come across it.


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## ericjarvis (Jan 6, 2013)

Greebo said:


> No, but there are plenty of adjustable metal ones for sale, including at that medical supplies shop in Streatham if you don't want to use ebay.


 
I wonder if I can get a crisis loan to purchase it?


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## elbows (Jan 22, 2013)

A slightly more general statistic is in the news today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21141815



> *The number of people taking their own life in the UK rose "significantly" in 2011, latest figures from the Office for National Statistics have shown.*
> Some 6,045 people killed themselves in 2011, an increase of 437 since 2010.
> The highest suicide rate was among men aged between 30 and 44. About 23 men per 100,000 took their own lives.
> On average, across both sexes, 11.8 people per 100,000 population killed themselves in 2011, up from 11.1 people the previous year.
> The suicide rate among middle-aged men aged 45 to 59 was also high, increasing from 21.7 deaths in 2006 to 22.2 deaths per 100,000 people in 2011.





> Male suicide rates increased in the 1980s, with the average rate among all age groups peaking at 21.9 deaths per 100,000 population in 1988.





> After more than a decade of falling suicide rates in males, the rate increased significantly between 2010 and 2011, from 17 to 18.2 deaths per 100,000 population.


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## existentialist (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm not surprised to see an increase in male suicide rates. Suicide is one of my specialist areas of interest in my work, and it's a complex - but still taboo - topic, influenced by many factors and not lending itself particularly well to study.

Part of that problem is that coroners are very reluctant, unless there is categorical evidence to demonstrate that someone has deliberately attempted suicide in full possession of their faculties, to ascribe suicide as a cause of death. I am not saying this is wrong, but I suspect there are a lot of cases where death by misadventure has been given as the cause even though the death was, if not completely deliberately due to suicide in the legal sense, was clearly a product of some level of emotional distress amounting to suicidality.

The other aspect that is often overlooked is about cause. It is probably true to say that only a small minority of suicides can be directly attributable to, for example, struggles with the benefits system, but there will be many, many more where, while one may not be able to put hand on heart and say "The DWP/government/ATOS killed this person", it wouldn't be unreasonable to acknowledge that the difficulties they were experiencing contributed to a level of emotional distress which, at the very least, increased the risk of their attempting suicide. Of course, in typical black/white political logic, I am sure that those responsible for the system that create such distress would immediately argue that, since it was not possible to point the finger directly at their activities as a cause, they can completely disown any responsibility for it.

On a larger scale, the correlation between rates of (in this case) male suicide and economic depression do paint a rather compelling picture, but of course we have to be careful not to automatically assume that correlation implies causation. Nonetheless, suicide is a leading cause of death of young men, and we would be remiss as a society if we failed to ask some very searching questions as to why so many of ours are killing themselves.

As part of my practice, I work as a counsellor in a doctors' surgery, and consistently between 80% and 100% of my caseload is people who are currently engaged in the ATOS/DWP/tribunal process. Many of them are very matter-of-fact about it, but hearing their stories can be difficult, when one considers how much of the day-to-day difficulty they are experiencing are avoidable, on top of whatever problems their disabilities, mental health issues, or life circumstances are causing them. I haven't lost anyone yet, but I fear that it is only a matter of time. Too frequently, I hear clients saying "I really don't know where to turn, and I often wonder if I (or my family) would not be better off if I was dead."

Those are stark words, and, in the unlikely event of my having to attend a coroner's inquest, they are words I would have to repeat. But even there, it would be perfectly possible for Mr Duncan Smith, or Cameron, or Osborne to say "ah, but you can't say that it was our policies that killed that person". They'd be right: I couldn't. But I _know_ that, if one of those people were to kill themselves, it is likely that the brutal and unfair treatment that had been meted out to an already vulnerable person would be a very significant straw that had broken the camel's back.

And it is hard for me, as a therapist, to hear those words and to some extent not feel inclined to agree: if I were having to endure the catalogue of injustice that these people relate, and which has been endlessly repeated both here and on Facebook groups, benefits advocacy sites, etc., I would be seriously wondering if it were worth all the distress and aggravation. It makes me furious - that, as someone whose job it is to try and help people make sense of their lives, I am hobbled by the fact that others are actively doing everything in their power to make the lives of such people as meaningless, arbitrary, and miserable as possible.

I don't imagine any one individual within that system sets out to drive people to suicide, or would not be somewhat distressed to learn that one of their cases had killed themselves. But the system as a whole does operate that way, and the "groupthink" that inevitably arises as an artefact of such systems *will*, at some level, be saying "It's their choice, it's their responsibility, and if they want to kill themselves that's their business - one less case isn't going to make our job worse."

Until these organisations (and politicians) can recognise their own accountability for the degradation in the quality of people's lives which is manifesting as increasing rates of suicide, nothing will change, and people will continue to kill themselves. I have no idea what will change that.

End of rant.


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## existentialist (Jan 22, 2013)

I just got this as a response on Facebook to my repost of the above rant on there:

"Urgh. People are killing themselves all over the place. Taking away their free money is yet another excuse in a long list. 

People need to get grips. And jobs. In that order x" 

Gnnnnnnngh!


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## BigTom (Jan 22, 2013)

someone with no idea of what suicidal thoughts are actually like. another excuse  I didn't like your rant cos it's fucking grim but thanks for posting it here. is that 80-100% rate of who you see similar to what it was 4 or 5 years ago, or have things changed in your experience?


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## existentialist (Jan 22, 2013)

BigTom said:


> someone with no idea of what suicidal thoughts are actually like. another excuse  I didn't like your rant cos it's fucking grim but thanks for posting it here. is that 80-100% rate of who you see similar to what it was 4 or 5 years ago, or have things changed in your experience?


That project has only been running for about 4 years. But the increase in people reporting that they're having trouble with ATOS as part of their difficulties has gone up from pretty much nowhere to 80-100% in the last 2 years. It has been dramatic.

And all of the team are reporting the same thing - there's 4 of us.

But the project may not run for much longer - we were told our funding was "ringfenced" 4 months ago, but now they're telling us they may be able to fund us on a year-by-year area, but only if we agree to double our coverage (headcount) on the same funding.


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## BigTom (Feb 6, 2013)

Tweet from @wandsworthCAB / Roehampton CAB https://twitter.com/RoehamptonCAB/status/299122019247730688



> Client admitted to hosptial, attempted overdose, could not cope with receiving letter advising her of cut to benefit relating to bedroom tax


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 6, 2013)

Jesus fuck!


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 6, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I just got this as a response on Facebook to my repost of the above rant on there:
> 
> "Urgh. People are killing themselves all over the place. Taking away their free money is yet another excuse in a long list.
> 
> ...


 
kill them.

then 'unfriend' them.


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## RaverDrew (Feb 6, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I just got this as a response on Facebook to my repost of the above rant on there:
> 
> "Urgh. People are killing themselves all over the place. Taking away their free money is yet another excuse in a long list.
> 
> ...



Name names, I'll show them exactly how to get a grip... of their neck.


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## existentialist (Feb 6, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> Name names, I'll show them exactly how to get a grip... of their neck.


Such people are not, in the immortal words of an erstwhile friend, "worth the steam off my piss", let alone the possibility of mid-strangulation nail breakage.


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## existentialist (Feb 6, 2013)

BigTom said:


> Tweet from @wandsworthCAB / Roehampton CAB https://twitter.com/RoehamptonCAB/status/299122019247730688


Good for them on publicising both the suicide attempt and the probable cause. More like this needs to be done, because you can be sure that the Government will be trying as hard as possible to deny that there is any link between their policies and suicide.


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## BigTom (Feb 7, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Good for them on publicising both the suicide attempt and the probable cause. More like this needs to be done, because you can be sure that the Government will be trying as hard as possible to deny that there is any link between their policies and suicide.



Yes, I might try to setup a list of cab Twitter feeds, every so often they do a #cablive week which is eye opening, more than a few of the ridiculous sanctions I've heard of come from cab Twitter feeds.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 8, 2013)

BigTom said:


> Yes, I might try to setup a list of cab Twitter feeds, every so often they do a #cablive week which is eye opening, more than a few of the ridiculous sanctions I've heard of come from cab Twitter feeds.


 
and then there's crap like this



> *Adam Ach* ‏@*ama2473*
> @*Destructo_Dog* @*RoehamptonCAB* So what? They are living in the house so why the fuck should someone else pay for it?


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## BigTom (Feb 8, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and then there's crap like this


 
 How some can have so little empathy I have no idea.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 8, 2013)

BigTom said:


> How some can have so little empathy I have no idea.


 
There's absolutely loads and loads like that


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## BigTom (Feb 8, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> There's absolutely loads and loads like that


 
Not in direct response to that tweet though, it's not so much the lack of empathy with people who have to move/pay more but with the lack of empathy or concern that someone has attempted suicide because of it. Even people who agree with the bedroom tax I'd expect to be a bit contrite when talking about this story.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 8, 2013)

BigTom said:


> Not in direct response to that tweet though, it's not so much the lack of empathy with people who have to move/pay more but with the lack of empathy or concern that someone has attempted suicide because of it. Even people who agree with the bedroom tax I'd expect to be a bit contrite when talking about this story.


 
Fair enough, although I bet if the story were in the Daily Mail, there'd be a few more like that, but as the DM isn't really touching on the bedroom tax....


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## Libertad (Feb 21, 2013)

> *East Grinstead Man 63 Dies of Kidney Failure and Starvation after being cut off benefits and declared “Fit For Work”*


 
http://www.afteratos.com/?p=3033


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 21, 2013)

Some strange figures given there, but I'm not going to quibble, as it's not really relevant


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## Libertad (Feb 26, 2013)

> *Cornwall councillor refuses to resign after saying all disabled children "should be put down"*
> 
> ​


 
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Cor...tory-18257973-detail/story.html#axzz2M2rrjjpz


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## treelover (Feb 26, 2013)

Not surprised, in the early days of Guardian CIF, on benefit threads there were plenty of calls for sterilisation of disabled claimants, etc, very few reposts/replies either, much better there now..


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## Libertad (Feb 26, 2013)

treelover said:


> Not surprised, in the early days of Guardian CIF, on benefit threads there were plenty of calls for sterilisation of disabled claimants, etc, very few reposts/replies either, much better there now..


 
This wasn't a comment made on a news story feed.


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## Libertad (Feb 26, 2013)

Ah, sorry treelover I see what you mean.


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## butchersapron (Mar 2, 2013)

Homeless man Daniel Gauntlett dies frozen on doorstep of empty bungalow in Aylesford



> A tarpaulin, a pillow, a dirty old jacket, a carrier bag and a few worthless items strewn over the veranda of a boarded-up bungalow.
> 
> This is where homeless Daniel Gauntlett tried to find shelter through a bitterly cold winter and where, on a freezing night on Saturday, he finally succumbed to the cold.
> 
> Mr Gauntlett, 35, was found the next morning by a passer-by who spotted his body from the pavement.


 
*35.*



> An inquest was opened and adjourned on yesterday and confirmed the cause of death was hypothermia.


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## existentialist (Mar 2, 2013)

I took a phone call last Wednesday from someone calling a counselling service I work as part of. He was suicidal, desperate, and angry. He had £3 to his name, hadn't eaten for several days, was unable to work because of his mental state, and was on the verge of being thrown out of his home.

I've managed to sort the initial problem out and arrange a counsellor for him to see - so we can at least try and hold the suicidal stuff at bay - but he's locked in a three-way battle between the DWP, the GP and himself, with the DWP (as usual) insisting that they haven't received the forms the GP has sent. The counsellor has put him in touch with the local food bank, and interceded with the GP on his behalf, but there is a limit to what can be done. The one agency that could help is the DWP, and they are maintaining an intransigent position.

This man is on the verge of dipping below the curve - he has no money to even buy food, heat his home, or pay his rent, let alone afford the fuel to get to see his counsellor. He is, in my opinion, at imminent risk of suicide - as close as any I've ever worked with.

If he kills himself, his blood will be on the DWP's hands. I am prepared to fight quite hard to be able to stand up in a coroner's court and say so.


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## yield (Mar 2, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Homeless man Daniel Gauntlett dies frozen on doorstep of empty bungalow in Aylesford
> *35.*





> Mr Gauntlett was the second homeless man to die in Aylesford last weekend.


Jesus wept. Freezing to death outside an empty home.


existentialist said:


> I took a phone call last Wednesday from someone calling a counselling service I work as part of. He was suicidal, desperate, and angry. He had £3 to his name, hadn't eaten for several days, was unable to work because of his mental state, and was on the verge of being thrown out of his home.
> 
> I've managed to sort the initial problem out and arrange a counsellor for him to see - so we can at least try and hold the suicidal stuff at bay - but he's locked in a three-way battle between the DWP, the GP and himself, with the DWP (as usual) insisting that they haven't received the forms the GP has sent. The counsellor has put him in touch with the local food bank, and interceded with the GP on his behalf, but there is a limit to what can be done. The one agency that could help is the DWP, and they are maintaining an intransigent position.
> 
> ...


Where I work I take out of hours calls for the Council. Emergency Housing and Social Services EDT being two of the main ones. It's heartbreaking.


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## BigTom (Mar 2, 2013)

> Police had reportedly been called previously after he tried to break into the bungalow. *And so Mr Gauntlett, had taken the fatal decision to abide by the law.*


 
 not sure that the new squatting laws would actually have affected this (if the house was locked up he couldn't legally have squatted it before) but still spot on (cos it's breaking and entering laws) and another example of how capitalism places private property above human life


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## toggle (Mar 2, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I took a phone call last Wednesday from someone calling a counselling service I work as part of. He was suicidal, desperate, and angry. He had £3 to his name, hadn't eaten for several days, was unable to work because of his mental state, and was on the verge of being thrown out of his home.
> 
> I've managed to sort the initial problem out and arrange a counsellor for him to see - so we can at least try and hold the suicidal stuff at bay - but he's locked in a three-way battle between the DWP, the GP and himself, with the DWP (as usual) insisting that they haven't received the forms the GP has sent. The counsellor has put him in touch with the local food bank, and interceded with the GP on his behalf, but there is a limit to what can be done. The one agency that could help is the DWP, and they are maintaining an intransigent position.
> 
> ...


 
ffs.

and well done.


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## treelover (Mar 2, 2013)

Agreed, there seems to be a national media blackout on these deaths, especially the causal link to benefit cuts, etc...


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## existentialist (Mar 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Agreed, there seems to be a national media blackout on these deaths, especially the causal link to benefit cuts, etc...


TBF, the way things are, it's hard to demonstrate causal links to benefit cuts - people like me can provide anecdotal stories, but if something does happen, who's really going to listen to people like us saying "if you hadn't pushed him to the brink, perhaps he wouldn't have died"?


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## ice-is-forming (Mar 2, 2013)

its fucking tragic! all those lives and all that work put into advancing the care in the community and the breaking down of stigma 

i posted this on another thread, i posted it because i wanted you to remember that what you are fighting against, its not normal. Don't ever let them convince you it is 

I took my son for the Australian equivalent of an ATOS medical today. The nurse, rosemary, had to assess him to see if he should stay on incapacity youth allowance or be put on disability benefit. We had a whole hour with her, my son , his girl friend and me, we hadn't taken along any special reports etc.. Just the centrelink (aus dole office) one that the GP had filled in. She didn't ask him to touch his toes or anything, or how the disease impacted on him in any way, we just all sat down and chatted.

She was brilliant, she had been researching his condition and had loads of advice and information regarding medication, diet and exercise. She said that she would battle to get him on disability, she couldn't promise 100% as his condition is going to fluctuate so much in the coming year as they trial him on new drugs and fluctuation in prognosis doesn't usually match the criteria. 

She then had a light bulb moment and said that she could most definitely put him on it for the next 12 months because of the adverse effects of the drug treatment. And after that he would be re-assessed by her again and she would have a much more concrete argument to have him placed on it permanently if he still needed it (hopefully not though) 

It looks like i'm coming across as smug but thats not my intention, this is a bloody awful time for my son. I just wanted you to know that other places in the world still continue to have humanity and sanity and that what the uk government is doing, is so far removed from what is happening here that its not recognisable. im sorry that its become your norm.


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## treelover (Mar 3, 2013)

that is great new and the assessor seemed very fair, but a lot of the ideas for welfare 'reform' came from Aus and Howards regime, he even pushed for the right to enter disabled people's homes whenever the benefits agency wanted to...

but it is revealing to see the contrast, we are entering a period of barbarism..


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 3, 2013)

Having read through part of this thread, I have a question: what does it take before these doctors will determine that a person suffers from a medical condition that disables them from working?


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 3, 2013)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Having read through part of this thread, I have a question: what does it take before these doctors will determine that a person suffers from a medical condition that disables them from working?


 
They're not necessarily doctors, Johnny. ATOS employs what it calls "healthcare professionals", who may or may not be doctors, nurses, physiotherapists etc.
Also, they don't determine, they input data into a computer program and provide an opinion, which a Department of Work & Pensions adjudication officer will take into consideration. People with terminal or extremely severe health problems have been declared fit-for-work.

Of course, as has been mentioned on many threads on this set of issues, these "healthcare professionals" have their decisions "managed" by people who impose unofficial quotas intended to reduce government expenditure and maximise the profits of the private sector agency involved, so absolutely no conflict of interest there!


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## Greebo (Mar 3, 2013)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Having read through part of this thread, I have a question: what does it take before these doctors will determine that a person suffers from a medical condition that disables them from working?


In the eyes of ATOS's not so finest health care professionals, possibly death, although I wouldn't bet on it.  Death followed by decomposition would almost certainly prove you unfit for work.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 3, 2013)

Greebo said:


> In the eyes of ATOS's not so finest health care professionals, possibly death, although I wouldn't bet on it. Death followed by decomposition would almost certainly prove you unfit for work.


 
You'd probably have to prove you were dead and decomposed though, preferably by sending your body to them, recorded delivery of course, just to make sure they did receive it


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## Libertad (Mar 3, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You'd probably have to prove you were dead and decomposed though, preferably by sending your body to them, recorded delivery of course, just to make sure they did receive it


 
And then they'd lose you.


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## BigTom (Mar 3, 2013)

Greebo said:


> In the eyes of ATOS's not so finest health care professionals, possibly death, although I wouldn't bet on it. Death followed by decomposition would almost certainly prove you unfit for work.


 
Don't be silly, if you're dead you won't make it to your appointment and will be declared fit for work as a result. (I bet this has already happened, like the clerical error with the person who was in a coma)


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## ericjarvis (Mar 3, 2013)

So far as I can see the ONLY way of getting them to declare somebody unfit to work is to have a reliable witness at the assessment.


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## Frumious B. (Mar 3, 2013)

That's not enough. You need a GP's letter, a specialist's letter for every condition/disability you suffer from, and a written care plan. You should be accompanied by a helper, and be too ill or disabled to talk much. The helper should do the talking and make it clear you would not have been able to attend without their assistance to get out of bed on time and on the right day, to wash, dress and travel there and back.  That should get you declared unfit for work but in case it doesn't you should video the assessment covertly to assist with your appeal.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 3, 2013)

ericjarvis said:


> So far as I can see the ONLY way of getting them to declare somebody unfit to work is to have a reliable witness at the assessment.


 
That's wishful thinking!


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## ericjarvis (Mar 3, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> That's wishful thinking!


 
OK. Have a reliable witness at the assessment and disabilities that would be obvious to a sheep with a nurse's hat. Which, by my reckoning, will generally give at least a 50% chance of having a reasonable assessment. As opposed to turning up alone, dressed tidily, and trying not to sound whiny and helpless, which appears to guarantee the assessor awards zero points regardless.


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## Frumious B. (Mar 4, 2013)

You're forgetting the letters. They're vital.

The key point about the assessment is that you are only called for one if your ESA50 doesn't indicate that you're unfit for work.  So the assessment begins with the assumption that you're fit for work. You then have to disprove that. But your opinion isn't credible - you're not medically trained and you will probably lie or exaggerate. So you have to get experts to speak for you. But they can't be there, so you have to get their opinions in writing.


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## BigTom (Mar 4, 2013)

Benefit Changes Are Driving People To The Brink Of Suicide (Glasgow Evening Times)
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...laimants-to-brink-of-suicide-117226n.20375671



> MORE than 43,000 people have inundated Glasgow's Citizen's Advice Bureau desperately looking for help over Government benefit changes.
> 
> Nearly half of all calls last year were from people desperate for help – many told staff and volunteers they were contemplating suicide.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 9, 2013)

Just came across this.  



> You probably won’t have heard much about the case of Alice (name changed). She’s a 33-year-old woman who lives in the West Country with her parents. She’s very poorly: she suffers from severe bipolar disorder, and has been sectioned on numerous occasions after harming herself.
> 
> In February last year, she received a letter from the outsourcing company Atos, which told her that she was about to lose her disability living allowance and would have to undergo an assessment before could receive employment support. Shortly after this, Alice was found by her mother in the bathroom. She'd slashed her throat in the bath. She was taken to hospital for treatment, and survived.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/03/tragedy-alice

I get the feeling Sue Marsh may have already covered this, judging by the comments


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## ddraig (Mar 9, 2013)

jesus


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## Libertad (Mar 9, 2013)

I know Tony Lea, he lives down the road, he does some great work whilst being an ill-informed nationalist.
He is "Auntie" of AfterAtos and has his own battles to fight including appalling grammar and spelling. I've offered, as politely as I can, to proof his copy and he told me to fuck of(sic) having mistaken my genuine offer as mere criticism.


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## Frankie Jack (Mar 9, 2013)

Libertad said:


> I know Tony Lea, he lives down the road, he does some great work whilst being an ill-informed nationalist.
> He is "Auntie" of AfterAtos and has his own battles to fight including appalling grammar and spelling. I've offered, as politely as I can, to proof his copy and he told me to fuck of(sic) having mistaken my genuine offer as mere criticism.


erm.. no 'he' isn't. I Know Auntie very well and we natter a lot. 'She' does have many personal problems though.


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## Libertad (Mar 9, 2013)

He posts valid criticisms of government benefit changes and then goes on to tie it in with immigration policy and tales of "our brave boys and girls in uniform".


eta: I may not agree with his worldview but Bufferzone's advocacy has brought results and helped a lot of people out. I hold no malice towards the man and wish him continued success.


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## Libertad (Mar 9, 2013)

Frankie Jack said:


> erm.. no 'he' isn't. I Know Auntie very well and we natter a lot. 'She' does have many personal problems though.


 
Fucksticks. Frankie Jack Apologies, the connection I'd made between Lea and AfterAtos was incorrect and sloppy. I withdraw that.


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## treelover (Mar 10, 2013)

Sadly, its not just the unemployed and disabled who are going to be distraught and at the end of their tether, UC and the minimum income floor is soon to be live and millions will be devastated part lowincome/self employed who are just about keeping their heads above water...

btw, on Money Saving Expert forums's, there are absolute scum posting who are saying why should those working PT/SE on E Bay etc, have an 'easy ride' getting all sorts of benefits, etc. disgusting...


----------



## ericjarvis (Mar 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> Sadly, its not just the unemployed and disabled who are going to be distraught and at the end of their tether, UC and the minimum income floor is soon to be live and millions will be devastated part lowincome/self employed who are just about keeping their heads above water...
> 
> btw, on Money Saving Expert forums's, there are absolute scum posting who are saying why should those working PT/SE on E Bay etc, have an 'easy ride' getting all sorts of benefits, etc. disgusting...


 
Just to re-iterate from many other posts. The victims of government policy (and I include both blue and red Tory governments) also include people in moderately well paid jobs. The driving force behind these policies are an insurance company called UNUM. They specialise in unemployment insurance. They also fund the bulk of the "research" used to "justify" the policies, run large numbers of conferences and seminars through front organisations, and spend a fortune on lobbying. The people they are aiming to rip off aren't the poor who will suffer most, but the moderately well off who they will scam for insurance premiums as the welfare system slides towards catastrophe. They stand to make billions. They will get that money from people in work who already pay taxes and NI that should cover them in case of misfortune, but who they hope will be scared into spending more to ensure they actually get what they have already paid for.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2013)

ericjarvis said:


> Just to re-iterate from many other posts. The victims of government policy (and I include both blue and red Tory governments) also include people in moderately well paid jobs. The driving force behind these policies are an insurance company called UNUM. They specialise in unemployment insurance. They also fund the bulk of the "research" used to "justify" the policies, run large numbers of conferences and seminars through front organisations, and spend a fortune on lobbying. The people they are aiming to rip off aren't the poor who will suffer most, but the moderately well off who they will scam for insurance premiums as the welfare system slides towards catastrophe. They stand to make billions. They will get that money from people in work who already pay taxes and NI that should cover them in case of misfortune, but who they hope will be scared into spending more to ensure they actually get what they have already paid for.


 
Those wanting to read up on the work of this "insurance company" should also google Unum Provident (as they used to be known), and have fun following the myriad linkages between the company, our politicians and our bureaucrats.

Let me hear a "total fucking circle jerk", my people!!!


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## Frankie Jack (Mar 10, 2013)

Libertad said:


> Fucksticks. Frankie Jack Apologies, the connection I'd made between Lea and AfterAtos was incorrect and sloppy. I withdraw that.


No probs Lib. She has a few monikers that she uses on the net. Some of them male.


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## ericjarvis (Mar 10, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Those wanting to read up on the work of this "insurance company" should also google Unum Provident (as they used to be known), and have fun following the myriad linkages between the company, our politicians and our bureaucrats.
> 
> Let me hear a "total fucking circle jerk", my people!!!


 
It's also important to bear in mind when campaigning. This isn't an attack on the sick, disabled, and unemployed. It is an attack on everyone who isn't wealthy enough to simply give the finger to anything fate might throw their way. It will be the sick and disabled who die, but it is the middle class who are being robbed. Pretty much everyone has a vested interest in opposing government policy on benefits. The media won't cover this aspect of it because the owners of the mass media are in the circle too. So it's up to the rest of us to keep pointing out that healthy people in good jobs are victims of the policy too.


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## Frances Lengel (Mar 10, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Those wanting to read up on the work of this "insurance company" should also google Unum Provident (as they used to be known), and have fun following the myriad linkages between the company, our politicians and our bureaucrats.
> 
> Let me hear a "total fucking circle jerk", my people!!!


 
Are Unum Provident anything to do with the Provident loan company? I hope they are coz I've had them over from near enough every address I've ever had. it'd be nice to think i was doing my bit for the class war.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 19, 2013)

treelover said:


> Sadly, its not just the unemployed and disabled who are going to be distraught and at the end of their tether, UC and the minimum income floor is soon to be live and millions will be devastated part lowincome/self employed who are just about keeping their heads above water...
> 
> btw, on Money Saving Expert forums's, there are absolute scum posting who are saying why should those working PT/SE on E Bay etc, have an 'easy ride' getting all sorts of benefits, etc. disgusting...


 
MSE forums are full of Daily Mail scum

I went on there once looking for advice, never ever posted again


----------



## treelover (Mar 24, 2013)

"Claim welfare reforms drove writer Paul Reekie to suicide"

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-e...drove-writer-paul-reekie-to-suicide-1-2269052


Scotsman on Paul Reekie, can't imagine The Times here doing similar.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 24, 2013)

treelover said:


> "Claim welfare reforms drove writer Paul Reekie to suicide"<snip>
> Scotsman on Paul Reekie, can't imagine The Times here doing similar.


Old news, but no more acceptable for all that.


----------



## treelover (Mar 24, 2013)

It's an update, 23rd March.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 25, 2013)

Sanika Ahmed



> The hospital say that although Sanika is UK born she is dependent upon her parents and therefore is not entitled to free NHS treatment. Her parents have already applied for permission to stay in the UK.
> 
> Sanika's mother, Syeda Ahmed, told the BBC that consultants have told her Sanika only has a month in which to be treated before she is permanently paralysed in her arm.
> 
> "Sanika is slowly, slowly getting paralysed and it is very upsetting for all our family," she said.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Sanika Ahmed


 
Depressing as fuck.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 27, 2013)

ITV on Food Banks

http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2013-03-27/how-we-reported-it-food-banks-in-london/


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

Has anyone considered that the government knew, all along, that the suicide rate would increase?
Hell, the government may have intended for the suicide rate to increase.
Ghoulish, I know, but we are living in weird times where governments are acting ghoulishly.


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

Rutita1 said:


> *Benefits Cuts, suicides and deaths.*
> 
> http://politicsuk.eu/archives/12537


404


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

existentialist said:


> From my clients' experience at both ATOS medicals and interactions with DWP types, there is a clear sense, at least from their point of view, that their mental health issues are regarded as rather irrelevant to the whole business.
> 
> So far as I can tell, non-psychotic illness is irrelevant, and then psychotic illness - if they can be persuaded to take notice of it - is simply terrifying, to the point that a couple of people with a diagnosis of schizophrenia whom I have known have not even been called for assessment.


What if you are un-diagnosed but show symptoms of being a safety risk, yet have been discharged?


----------



## Greebo (Mar 31, 2013)

panpete said:


> Has anyone considered that the government knew, all along, that the suicide rate would increase?
> Hell, the government may have intended for the suicide rate to increase.
> Ghoulish, I know, but we are living in weird times where governments are acting ghoulishly.


At the risk of sounding horribly smug, I predicted this over two years ago.  FWIW I wish I'd been wrong.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 31, 2013)

panpete said:


> What if you are un-diagnosed but show symptoms of being a safety risk, yet have been discharged?


Who can tell? My guess is that they'll try to claim that such a person is fit for work.


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I'm not surprised to see an increase in male suicide rates. Suicide is one of my specialist areas of interest in my work, and it's a complex - but still taboo - topic, influenced by many factors and not lending itself particularly well to study.
> 
> Part of that problem is that coroners are very reluctant, unless there is categorical evidence to demonstrate that someone has deliberately attempted suicide in full possession of their faculties, to ascribe suicide as a cause of death. I am not saying this is wrong, but I suspect there are a lot of cases where death by misadventure has been given as the cause even though the death was, if not completely deliberately due to suicide in the legal sense, was clearly a product of some level of emotional distress amounting to suicidality.
> 
> ...


What if suicidal people cite atos, cameron, osborne etc in their suicide notes?


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

Greebo said:


> At the risk of sounding horribly smug, I predicted this over two years ago. FWIW I wish I'd been wrong.


Mebbe it's a form of social 'cleansing' and if so, what of the poorest people who survive, what's the gov't got in store for them?


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Who can tell? My guess is that they'll try to claim that such a person is fit for work.


Not if they're a safety risk surely, cos in a workplace you have to think of other employees too.
Charities dealing with them may advocate.
Also, I raised this concern at my discharge and got fobbed off by people doing the gov'ts dirty work.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 31, 2013)

panpete said:


> Mebbe it's a form of social 'cleansing' and if so, what of the poorest people who survive, what's the gov't got in store for them?


Don't ask, don't even think about it.  

Recognise that the absolute worst could happen and then do everything you possibly can to at least delay it.  If the one thing which would make things easy for the current government is for those of us at the bottom of the heap to give up and die, you (and that "you" includes me) do exactly the opposite for as long as you possibly can.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 31, 2013)

panpete said:


> Not if they're a safety risk surely, cos in a workplace you have to think of other employees too.
> Charities dealing with them may advocate.
> Also, I raised this concern at my discharge and got fobbed off by people doing the gov'ts dirty work.


 
They don't give a shit - if they get found fit for work they'll have to sign on for JSA - If JSA think they're not fit for work they're caught between the old rock and the hard one - They'll have to go to food banks and/or kill themselves. But IDS will claim that as a victory coz they're no longer "Parked" on benefits. This _is_ policy now, there's no longer even a pretence of humanity in the system - Almost ovenight the social security we had has been replaced by an american style "welfare" system.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 31, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Don't ask, don't even think about it.
> 
> Recognise that the absolute worst could happen and then do everything you possibly can to at least delay it. If the one thing which would make things easy for the current government is for those of us at the bottom of the heap to give up and die, you (and that "you" includes me) do exactly the opposite for as long as you possibly can.


 
Not thinking about it's a bit of a tall order though - I lie awake sometimes thinking about it & I'm fairly sure you do as well.


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Don't ask, don't even think about it.
> 
> Recognise that the absolute worst could happen and then do everything you possibly can to at least delay it. If the one thing which would make things easy for the current government is for those of us at the bottom of the heap to give up and die, you (and that "you" includes me) do exactly the opposite for as long as you possibly can.


Woops, I didn't mean to make you mad.
I feel a bit of a sicko, but I am inspired in my sicko suggestions by our sicko government, cos they are corporate psychopaths who don't care.


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> They don't give a shit - if they get found fit for work they'll have to sign on for JSA - If JSA think they're not fit for work they're caught between the old rock and the hard one - They'll have to go to food banks and/or kill themselves. But IDS will claim that as a victory coz they're no longer "Parked" on benefits. This _is_ policy now, there's no longer even a pretence of humanity in the system - Almost ovenight the social security we had has been replaced by an american style "welfare" system.


That reminds me of extentialists post a few pages back, where suicidal people feel they have no choce but to kill themselves. "Have to kill themselves".
This country is making me feel really unwelcome in it. I get a pension of £460 a month which no one can take off me. I wonder if the countries that eastern euopeans are fleeing from will welcome english rejected people, and whether my pension will go further in those countries than in the UK, where it alone, as an income, means I won't get to eat, or wash, or heat/light the place.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 31, 2013)

panpete said:


> Not if they're a safety risk surely, cos in a workplace you have to think of other employees too.
> Charities dealing with them may advocate.
> Also, I raised this concern at my discharge and got fobbed off by people doing the gov'ts dirty work.


I think you are making the very common mistake of assuming that you are dealing with a unified system with clean hands.

ATOS's job is very simple - all it has to do is to "examine" someone to decide whether or not to advise a DWP decision maker whether you are fit to go to work. It is not meant to make any decisions about safety, suitable types of work, the effect of working on you, etc, etc.

It's called "plausible deniability". ATOS couldn't give a stuff whether you're going to go postal in your workplace - their job is simply to furnish the DWP with an excuse to take you off benefits. End of story.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 31, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I think you are making the very common mistake of assuming that you are dealing with a unified system with clean hands.
> 
> ATOS's job is very simple - all it has to do is to "examine" someone to decide whether or not to advise a DWP decision maker whether you are fit to go to work. It is not meant to make any decisions about safety, suitable types of work, the effect of working on you, etc, etc.
> 
> It's called "plausible deniability". ATOS couldn't give a stuff whether you're going to go postal in your workplace - their job is simply to furnish the DWP with an excuse to take you off benefits. End of story.


 
Sad but true.


----------



## panpete (Mar 31, 2013)

But I know some people who have been placed in the support group cos they are mentally ill, both have mh professionals to vouch for them.
Just because i was discharged, doesn't mean I am well enough to work now as my mental health probs are still there.
Also there's regulations 29 & 35 which state that work could worsen the mental health of the person.
I am trying to get well, and recover to build up my life, not get worse.
I know the govt are unfair though, just look at all those declared fit who arent.
My support worker told me I was incapable of work so I should not worry, and when I told him about all of the scandal regarding the huge amount of people wrongly declared fit for work, he said that was other people, and could not understand my concern and basicaly fucked me off.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 31, 2013)

panpete said:


> But I know some people who have been placed in the support group cos they are mentally ill, both have mh professionals to vouch for them.
> Just because i was discharged, doesn't mean I am well enough to work now as my mental health probs are still there.
> Also there's regulations 29 & 35 which state that work could worsen the mental health of the person.
> I am trying to get well, and recover to build up my life, not get worse.
> ...


One of the things I find myself saying to clients very frequently is this: "we never cause ourselves more distress than when we try to work out why people - or we - do the things they do."

And that's true in spades when it comes to stuff like this. At least with most people, you can reasonably assume they're probably acting mostly in good faith. I don't think it is being over-dramatic to say that the government and the DWP are *not* acting in good faith.

But we probably shouldn't assume they are evil, either. I don't really believe that they are making a cold-blooded calculation that people will kill themselves rather than subject themselves to the system, or that mentally ill people will suffer: these cunts genuinely believe that a bit of shelf-filling in Poundland will make people feel better, as if depression is like the bad day they sometimes have after a particularly bruising press conference. They truly believe that by "making work pay" (ie, by removing support from people needing it), people will somehow be galvanised into activity. That might be true for some small proportion of the benefit-claiming population, but it's certainly not generally true, and it is *absolutely* not true about that part of it that is off worth through disability or mental illness.

These people just don't understand mental illness. Notice how you don't hear much about IAPT any more - that was Prof. Layard's plan to savagely reduce the incapacity benefit roll by providing "manualised" therapy-on-the-cheap?

It crashed and burned. For a start, they were delivering it via barely-trained "therapists" who were doing it out of a book. That meant that they lacked the skills to connect with and engage the client, skills that are rather too often overlooked. Anyway, they started claiming a greater-than-50% success rate for IAPT.

But what they didn't say was that they'd gone in for a bit of sleight of hand. The 50% success rate was *of those who completed the course of "therapy"*. It didn't include those who dropped out, or never showed up in the first place. Now, any decent therapist will tell you that a patient failing to follow through on therapy, or not showing up for it, is itself a therapeutic outcome - albeit not a positive one - and as such it would need to be counted as part of the statistics. An honest therapist will also tell you that somewhere around 20% of people going into therapy would have got better all by themselves anyway - it might have taken a bit longer, but it would have happened.

And when you factor in all the no-shows and early finishes on the IAPT programme, you end up with a figure not much different from 20%...in other words, very little difference from having done nothing at all. Not surprising, when you look at other therapeutic research which points out that the therapeutic modality has very little to do with outcomes - most of it's about the creation of successful therapeutic partnerships, something that the "therapist lite" IAPT practitioners had no chance of achieving.

So no surprise, then, that £170m of IAPT investment was sunk without trace.

And the reason I mention this is because, if you ever needed an example of how badly government understands mental health, it's right there. They really DO believe that all these people need is a bit of patronising twaddle coupled with a kick up the arse and it'll all somehow magically go right. And that's why they don't appear to care about the body count of the practices they're indulging in.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 31, 2013)

But, panpete, one thing here. I'm sounding off about generalities, and I am noticing that the questions you are asking look a bit like you're trying to make some predictions on the basis of those generalities.

So I need to make something clear: this is opinion and broad-brush stuff. Don't take it as predictions in your own case, as I suspect you may have a bit of a tendency to do.

If you are due to be assessed, then there is little point concerning yourself with the broader picture, or what is right and wrong. You need to prepare for your assessment in exactly the same way as other people are being advised to do - documenting your condition, doing everything you can to demonstrate how it affects your ability to work, and - most important of all - ensuring that you are working towards a successful appeal, because it is likely that, unless you make a _very _persuasive case, you will not pass the ATOS assessment.

There is no point agonising over why that is, or the wrongness of it - it is how it is, and you will save yourself much angst by accepting that, and seeing it as a bump along the way. Don't allow the system to throw you into a flat spin - just work through it. If you don't trust your MH worker, get onto CAB, or advocacy services, etc. And ignore all my polemic about the system while you don't have the luxury of indulging in generalities because you're dealing with your own claim - that can all wait until later


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 31, 2013)

existentialist said:


> One of the things I find myself saying to clients very frequently is this: "we never cause ourselves more distress than when we try to work out why people - or we - do the things they do."
> 
> And that's true in spades when it comes to stuff like this. At least with most people, you can reasonably assume they're probably acting mostly in good faith. I don't think it is being over-dramatic to say that the government and the DWP are *not* acting in good faith.
> 
> ...


 
I think we can assume they're evil - People dying saves the system money.

There's no _way_ they genuinely believe shelf stacking will solve peoples problems.


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

existentialist said:


> But, panpete, one thing here. I'm sounding off about generalities, and I am noticing that the questions you are asking look a bit like you're trying to make some predictions on the basis of those generalities.
> 
> So I need to make something clear: this is opinion and broad-brush stuff. Don't take it as predictions in your own case, as I suspect you may have a bit of a tendency to do.
> 
> ...


 
I don't want to assume that I will be found fit for work, because that would just be a negative assumption and neg assumptions only serve to create more worry.
Plenty people I know, who are not as bad as me have been awarded ESA.
I don't have a worker from the mental health, only from a charity.
There seems to be loads of charitys now, different ones who take on patients that mh services discharged.


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

I worked full time, it made me depressed and aggrevated a budding drink problem that I was developing at the time.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 1, 2013)

panpete said:


> Woops, I didn't mean to make you mad.
> I feel a bit of a sicko, but I am inspired in my sicko suggestions by our sicko government, cos they are corporate psychopaths who don't care.


You didn't make me angry.  That emoticon was for the powers that be.

Better to turn the anger outwards than inwards, where it's far too likely to become depression.  IYSWIM


----------



## Greebo (Apr 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Not thinking about it's a bit of a tall order though - I lie awake sometimes thinking about it & I'm fairly sure you do as well.


When not woken up by VP or far more immediate problems over which I can at least have some direct influence, I sleep well.  

Wilfully allowing myself the delusion of Something/Someone out there who can be sometimes implored, cajoled, and just plain nagged into fixing the rest can be quite a solace.


----------



## toggle (Apr 1, 2013)

panpete said:


> I don't want to assume that I will be found fit for work, because that would just be a negative assumption and neg assumptions only serve to create more worry.
> Plenty people I know, who are not as bad as me have been awarded ESA.
> I don't have a worker from the mental health, only from a charity.
> There seems to be loads of charitys now, different ones who take on patients that mh services discharged.


 
I know you're worried and I know why. But i also think you remind me a great deal of a freind of mine who got herself in a tizz on a regular basis because she kept tying herself in knots of 'what if's.' You've not posted in a few weeks, but the last thing i recall you posting then was some significant steps forwards. With luck, and the help that people here and elsewhere can give you, you will get the esa award. if you don't, then have the fight for it. don't have the fight every day in your head, cause that will fuck you up.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 1, 2013)

panpete said:


> Has anyone considered that the government knew, all along, that the suicide rate would increase?
> Hell, the government may have intended for the suicide rate to increase.
> Ghoulish, I know, but we are living in weird times where governments are acting ghoulishly.


 
It was fairly obvious to anyone casting an eye over what were then policy proposals that the net result would be some suicides through stress that otherwise wouldn't have happened.
One need only have looked to the effects of new Labour's "Benefits Integrity Project" to know precisely what would happen. The fact is that sick and disabled people aren't as vocal a constituency as old folk, so the govt can shit on us with relative impunity.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 1, 2013)

panpete said:


> Not if they're a safety risk surely, cos in a workplace you have to think of other employees too.
> Charities dealing with them may advocate.
> Also, I raised this concern at my discharge and got fobbed off by people doing the gov'ts dirty work.


 
You're missing the point.
Finding you fit for work isn't about forcing you into a job where you'd be a "safety risk", it's about minimising the amount of financial support the state gives you. It's about chucking hundreds of thousands of people off of Incapacity Benefit/ESA, and putting them on JSA, just as that's the imperative behind the transition from DLA to PIP.


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 1, 2013)

Iain Dunked In Shit reckons he could live on £53 a week... breath-taking cuntishness... the following is a c&p from the Guardian's rerader's comments...


Ian Duncan Smith is a man who has spent most of his adult life sucking on the public teat and sponging off his wife's family.
He has a dim view of spongers and has promised to cut another £10billion off the state’s handout bill. Obviously, the people who take handouts they don’t deserve should be the first to take a cut.
So let’s start by talking about someone who lives off the state and has little experience of the world of work you and I know. He is 58 years old and has suckled upon the publicly-funded teat for most of his life.
He’s signed on the dole. He’s had four children and received child benefit for all of them. He has put them each through private school, too.
His wife hasn’t worked since they married, except for 15 months in which he got her a job paid by the taxpayer.
He and his colleagues eat and drink food subsidised by the tax payer in a palace we pay for. He is driven around in a car he does not own and has not paid for - we did.
And when he is too old to ‘work’ any more he will receive a better pension than most of the rest of us - which again we paid for.
He started out at the age of 21 with six years of taxpayer-funded military service, during which he acted as bag-carrier to a Major-General. Then in 1981, aged 27, he left the Army and signed on the dole for several months.
He then began a period of ordinary work based upon the skills he had gained at the taxpayer’s expense, and worked in sales for arms dealer GEC-Marconi.
He then moved on to a property firm, where he was made redundant after six months, and then sold gun-related magazines for Jane’s Information Group.
After 11 years of this not too glittering a career he succeeded in once again boarding the publicly-funded gravy train in 1992.
In the intervening 20 years he has been paid by the taxpayer every year more money than most of the rest of us manage to earn. He has managed to boost it up to more than six figures for a few years here and there by being more pompous than the others in his position.
In 2001 he helped his unemployed wife to have a suckle, arranging for her to be paid £15,000 a year to be his diary secretary. (The Newsnight TV programme pulled a story that seemingly alleged she didnt actually do anything).
These days he is given the grand total of near £150,000 a year from the taxpayer.
He lives for free in a £2million Tudor farmhouse on his father-in-law’s ancestral estate in Buckinghamshire.
He has three acres of land, a tennis court, swimming pool and some orchards, which is not bad for a life paid for by the state.
‘Who is this parasite?’ you might cry. ‘Tell us his name, let the authorities know his address. Let’s get this guzzler out of the cushy life and show him what life is like for the rest of us,earning £7 an hour with a rise once every eight years and a miserly pension if we're lucky.’
His name is Iain Duncan Smith, and his address is: Palace of Westminster, LondonSW1A 0AA.
He is disgusting and a far far bigger leech on your money than the worst dole scrounger you can think of and twice as pointless.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> They don't give a shit - if they get found fit for work they'll have to sign on for JSA - If JSA think they're not fit for work they're caught between the old rock and the hard one - They'll have to go to food banks and/or kill themselves. But IDS will claim that as a victory coz they're no longer "Parked" on benefits. This _is_ policy now, there's no longer even a pretence of humanity in the system - Almost ovenight the social security we had has been replaced by an american style "welfare" system.


 
Why kill yourself when you can actually eliminate part of the problem instead (nudge nudge, wink wink) *and* get three squares and a roof over your head for the rest of your natural?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 1, 2013)

> @*johnnyvoid*
> 23h​So @*dwppressoffice* these new ESA figures, have they been published or did you just leak them to the right wing press?
> 
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9963012/900000-choose-to-come-off-sickness-benefit-ahead-of-tests.html …


 
ffs


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 1, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> Iain Dunked In Shit reckons he could live on £53 a week... breath-taking cuntishness... the following is a c&p from the Guardian's rerader's comments...
> 
> 
> Ian Duncan Smith is a man who has spent most of his adult life sucking on the public teat and sponging off his wife's family.
> ...


 
Just to add to your C & P, Jake, that this guy did six years in the Scots Guards, a period of time in which he only managed to get promoted from a 2nd to a 1st lieutenant. Most competent junior officers make captain in 3 to 4 years. If you're still a looey after 6, it's pretty much a mark of a distinct lack of ability. This is the calibre of the man who's looking down on millions of people - someone who couldn't cut it even in a profession where the "officer class" have to be of Buster Keatonesque proportions of incompetence to not "get on".


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

toggle said:


> I know you're worried and I know why. But i also think you remind me a great deal of a freind of mine who got herself in a tizz on a regular basis because she kept tying herself in knots of 'what if's.' You've not posted in a few weeks, but the last thing i recall you posting then was some significant steps forwards. With luck, and the help that people here and elsewhere can give you, you will get the esa award. if you don't, then have the fight for it. don't have the fight every day in your head, cause that will fuck you up.


Yes, a few years ago the MH team suggested distraction, when I was checking my circumstances for DLA, but I was in such intense wd, that I could not distract at all.

Nowadays, I use distraction all the time, my distraction mainly consists of watching vids, or if not other forms of it are reading stuff unrelated.
I also use the "The worry tree" and "if in doubt breathe out" tools from my CBT course as I find these are useful, oh, and the stress beaker one too.
I couldn't use these back then. Having said that, even though i use these tools, the feeling is still there in the pit of my stomach and in my heart. The tools are more a 'here and now' and are useful for that, but the remaining feeling makes me feel bad from time to time.
I even vomited the other week cos of it.
Using the worry tree, the mh team rang me cos of a suicide related thing I said to victim support. VS has to report this as policy.
While on the phone I told them that my old care co-ordinator had missed my destructive rages off my discharge letter, and while these rages are a big problem, I could not prove it to the DWP. I also told them I was now engaging in groups much more, now, when not feeling agoraphobic.
The mental health team agreed to update my letter to show I still had mh problems and was now engaging, but the letter never did come, so I chased it up last week with another letter.

On a different note, I read somewhere online that some Tory was telling people to stop mentioning suicide when the subject of cuts was brought up, as it was ghoulish, but I cannot remember where I found it.
It may be ghoulish, but it's happening, it's there for all to see, and I really pity the thousands of people who have already been turfed out of their homes, or facing eviction/repopsession, all because of some changes the government has made.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 1, 2013)

toggle said:


> I know you're worried and I know why. But i also think you remind me a great deal of a freind of mine who got herself in a tizz on a regular basis because she kept tying herself in knots of 'what if's.' You've not posted in a few weeks, but the last thing i recall you posting then was some significant steps forwards. With luck, and the help that people here and elsewhere can give you, you will get the esa award. if you don't, then have the fight for it. don't have the fight every day in your head, cause that will fuck you up.


This, exactly.


----------



## toggle (Apr 1, 2013)

panpete said:


> Yes, a few years ago the MH team suggested distraction, when I was checking my circumstances for DLA, but I was in such intense wd, that I could not distract at all.
> 
> Nowadays, I use distraction all the time, my distraction mainly consists of watching vids, or if not other forms of it are reading stuff unrelated.
> I also use the "The worry tree" and "if in doubt breathe out" tools from my CBT course as I find these are useful, oh, and the stress beaker one too.
> ...


 
you're doing good pete.

and i know it's shit, we all know it's shit, but you need to help yourself before you can afford to worry about the rest of the world.


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It was fairly obvious to anyone casting an eye over what were then policy proposals that the net result would be some suicides through stress that otherwise wouldn't have happened.
> One need only have looked to the effects of new Labour's "Benefits Integrity Project" to know precisely what would happen. The fact is that sick and disabled people aren't as vocal a constituency as old folk, so the govt can shit on us with relative impunity.


Dark, f*cking dark, is all I can say on that.


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> You're missing the point.
> Finding you fit for work isn't about forcing you into a job where you'd be a "safety risk", it's about minimising the amount of financial support the state gives you. It's about chucking hundreds of thousands of people off of Incapacity Benefit/ESA, and putting them on JSA, just as that's the imperative behind the transition from DLA to PIP.


That's dark as well.
I actually said a few years ago to someone, "It's not about getting people into work, it's about getting them off benefits" and I was called something like paranoid.
It seems that a lot of the paranoid stuff i said a few years ago, is coming true and that is just freaky.


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> Iain Dunked In Shit reckons he could live on £53 a week... breath-taking cuntishness... the following is a c&p from the Guardian's rerader's comments...
> 
> 
> Ian Duncan Smith is a man who has spent most of his adult life sucking on the public teat and sponging off his wife's family.
> ...


Let IDS put his money where his mouth is and give it an honest try.
Even if he failed, he would have tried it, and that would have earnt him some respect, but I doubt whether IDS could do without his 'home comforts' and luxuries.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 1, 2013)

panpete said:


> That's dark as well.
> I actually said a few years ago to someone, "It's not about getting people into work, it's about getting them off benefits" and I was called something like paranoid.
> It seems that a lot of the paranoid stuff i said a few years ago, is coming true and that is just freaky.


 
The Benefits Integrity Project was launched in 1998, so it's not as if we haven't had fair warning of what these neoliberal fucks were up to.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 1, 2013)

12,000 signatures in four hours  

https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Just to add to your C & P, Jake, that this guy did six years in the Scots Guards, a period of time in which he only managed to get promoted from a 2nd to a 1st lieutenant. Most competent junior officers make captain in 3 to 4 years. If you're still a looey after 6, it's pretty much a mark of a distinct lack of ability. This is the calibre of the man who's looking down on millions of people - someone who couldn't cut it even in a profession where the "officer class" have to be of Buster Keatonesque proportions of incompetence to not "get on".


Mr Duncan Smith is a corporate psychopath.
Just like loads of others, but he is the JosefMengele (sp) of the tories.


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

toggle said:


> you're doing good pete.
> 
> and i know it's shit, we all know it's shit, but you need to help yourself before you can afford to worry about the rest of the world.


Am a bit concerned, cos i had an 'explosion' a few weeks ago, which involved headbutting a wall and making it bleed loads for ages, and broken glass. I informed all the relevant people, doc, etc
That feeling involves fear of me trying to help my own recovery as described, only to have it swiped away by these twats. I don't worry about others, but being surrounded by people (online and off) who are having bad things happen to them kinda makes it hard. I do try not to dwell on these thoughts, but I do also feel ambushed unawares by them alot of the time.
I guess it's good to share on here.
I'm just off to give some baccy and half a loaf of bread to a friend who has been refused money (long story) and left to starve, literally, after an in-vain visit to CAB, so I will catch you guys later.
Thanks for your ears btw, sorry to hijack thread.
The other tory thread made me feel creative as it asked for new tory policy ideas and I wrote quite a few down.


----------



## MrSki (Apr 1, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> 12,000 signatures in four hours
> 
> https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week


Signed. Up to 30000 now.


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It was fairly obvious to anyone casting an eye over what were then policy proposals that the net result would be some suicides through stress that otherwise wouldn't have happened.
> One need only have looked to the effects of new Labour's "Benefits Integrity Project" to know precisely what would happen. *The fact is that sick and disabled people aren't as vocal a constituency as old folk, so the govt can shit on us with relative impunity.*


 
Starting to get there though, I suspect Spartacus and other will have plans for the general election, etc..


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 1, 2013)

MrSki said:


> Signed. Up to 30000 now.


 
Over 32,000 now.  That's gotta be one of the fastest moving petitions I've ever seen, and sadly, totally pointless, because he ain't gonna do it, but at least he'll get an idea how many people *love* him


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 1, 2013)

MrSki said:


> Signed. Up to 30000 now.


 

almost 34,000


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Over 32,000 now. That's gotta be one of the fastest moving petitions I've ever seen, and sadly, totally pointless, because he ain't gonna do it, but at least he'll get an idea how many people *love* him


 
judging from the 'ratbag' incident, he is very very thin skinned, he is in for a shock now that light is finally being shown on the machinations, brutality of the welfare reforms.

btw, could we all leave this particular thread for victims, etc, post on campaign thread would be best..


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> judging from the 'ratbag' incident, he is very very thin skinned, he is in for a shock now that light is finally being shown on the machinations, brutality of the welfare reforms.
> 
> btw, could we all leave this particular thread for victims, etc, post on campaign thread would be best..


 
getting confused with so many threads, sorry


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

MrSki said:


> Signed. Up to 30000 now.


Signed, and facebooked, thanks.


----------



## panpete (Apr 1, 2013)

MrSki said:


> Signed. Up to 30000 now.


£54,887 signatures now.
Also, could IDS live on £53 a week, week in, week out, like many others do?
Sorry, I posted this before I saw the request to leave this thread to victims.

Here's Calum's list, more welfare reform victims.
http://calumslist.org/


----------



## rosecore (Apr 17, 2013)

> A FORMER farm labourer shot himself after learning that his benefits were being stopped, an inquest heard.
> Nicholas Peter Barker, of Bridge Farm Close, Helmsley, was found dead in his front garden with a shotgun at his feet by his neighbour on December 10 last year.


Awful, just awful.
http://www.gazetteherald.co.uk/news/10360733.Benefits_withdrawal_led_to_man___s_suicide/


----------



## panpete (Apr 21, 2013)

Welfare reform has claimed another.







http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-two-killed-himself-because-1844633#ixzz2R3wnZWlS


----------



## Ceej (Apr 23, 2013)

"Government figures reveal that 1,300 people have died after being told they should start preparing to go back to work.​Labour MP Michael Meacher told Parliament that Atos was paid £110million a year and a further £60million of public money was going on appeals.​And an Atos executive apologised last week to long term sick people incorrectly labelled fit for work. A third of its decisions have been overturned."​http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dad-two-killed-himself-because-1844633#ixzz2RKBJTQ7t​​This is fucking obscene.​There's a cold hand around my heart every time a new post appears on this thread.....​


----------



## panpete (Apr 24, 2013)

I just found out that they're piloting a new WCA which is supposed to be more fairer for people with mental health problems, and people with fluctuating health conditions.
The problem is, it's not being done till next year, so, they can fuck over a few more people in the meantime .
If they really cared, they would change it now.


----------



## treelover (Apr 25, 2013)

> Last night, on Facebook, I watched the messages as someone attempted suicide online as a result of this government’s demonisation of the disabled and withdrawal of the meagre benefits they need to survive. He had given up the struggle.
> 
> Fortunately, the rest of the group rallied round and were able to intervene. This morning I have learned that he’s in hospital, but not out of danger. If not for the compassion and concern of strangers, he would be dead by now.
> While the world recoils at the horror of the Boston bombings, a much greater horror is taking place in the UK as thousands of genuinely disabled people die, quietly and unnoticed, one at a time in their own homes or in hospitals. Their conditions worsen under the stress of fighting for the benefits they were guaranteed but are now denied and their illness overcomes them. Many have committed suicide.
> ...


 
Letter in Independent


----------



## two sheds (May 4, 2013)

A friend is writing a business management course and asked for examples of league tables to show how destructive they are. I suggested the recent story on the DWP's denial that they have league tables followed by the leaks of e-mails showing that they .... have league tables. 

I'd suggested an introduction of something like: "With 2.5 million unemployed, and the government allowing the rich to systematically hide their money away in tax havens, we have poor sick peoples’ benefits being stopped for reasons which can only be called fraudulent.

"Thousands of sick or disabled people have died after undergoing assessments to find out whether they were fit to work, the House of Commons was told today. Atos, the firm contracted to conduct work capability assessment (WCA) tests for the Government, was condemned by MPs for “ruthlessly” pressurising sick and disabled people into returning to their jobs. The debate was told of cases of people who had committed suicide after being stripped of their benefits under the process and of an incontinence sufferer who was told she could return to work wearing a nappy." (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-disabled-into-returning-to-work-8456447.html)

I doubt whether he'll go with that, but his introduction includes this which I feel is downright misleading: "_Many believe there is a long history of fraudulent claims for benefit, and the DWP are currently engaged in attempting to reduce the resulting loss to the Exchequer. "_

I'll swear I've seen figures comparing e.g. sickness benefit fraud (DWP figures) versus tax and other fraud. Anyone know where I can lay my hands on them easily?

Ta


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 4, 2013)

treelover said:


> Letter in Independent


 
Good letter


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 4, 2013)

two sheds said:


> I'll swear I've seen figures comparing e.g. sickness benefit fraud (DWP figures) versus tax and other fraud. Anyone know where I can lay my hands on them easily?
> 
> Ta


 
I've seen them, but can't be arsed to find official figures, but they may be in here somewhere

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/01/welfare-fraud-tax-avoidance

http://fullfact.org/blog/unpaid_tax_benefit_fraud_cost-3208

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6348/economics/cost-of-benefit-fraud-v-tax-evasion-in-uk/

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/...d-is-624-times-more-serious-than-tax-evasion/

http://citywire.co.uk/money/tax-evasion-costs-treasury-15-times-more-than-benefit-fraud/a378274


----------



## two sheds (May 4, 2013)

perfect ta - i take a look through them


----------



## kittyP (May 4, 2013)

panpete said:


> That's dark as well.
> I actually said a few years ago to someone, "It's not about getting people into work, it's about getting them off benefits" and I was called something like paranoid.
> It seems that a lot of the paranoid stuff i said a few years ago, is coming true and that is just freaky.


 
I am starting to feel more and more paranoid if I try to discuss this stuff with someone who has not been there. 
Not saying that no one can understand if they haven't been there but the looks that people give me when I talk about this stuff is really off putting. 
It's a kinda "oh I know it's really hard for you but you're a bit obsessed and it can't be as bad and malicious as you are making out" kinda look 

When you have MH problems, the last thing you need is being made to feel you are extra paranoid too.


----------



## panpete (May 4, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I am starting to feel more and more paranoid if I try to discuss this stuff with someone who has not been there.
> Not saying that no one can understand if they haven't been there but the looks that people give me when I talk about this stuff is really off putting.
> It's a kinda "oh I know it's really hard for you but you're a bit obsessed and it can't be as bad and malicious as you are making out" kinda look
> 
> When you have MH problems, the last thing you need is being made to feel you are extra paranoid too.


Well, now the tyranny is getting more publicity, thankfully, although, seemingly more in Scotland than in England.
I don't think it is even about cutting money, I think it is about government, reducing the quality of life in a section of society.
Don't let them reduce our quality of life, keep your loved ones around you, and your closest friends also, as that is what matters.


----------



## treelover (May 4, 2013)

Be strong Kitty, there are lots of allies now...


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2013)

> A JOBLESS father has taken his own life following a battle with benefits bosses, his heartbroken family revealed last night.
> 
> Iain Hodge, 30, committed suicide at the flat he shared with fiancee Vicki Pollock.
> 
> ...



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/benefits-row-dad-takes-life-1875339


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2013)

Are English national papers, etc reporting these sad deaths?


----------



## treelover (May 8, 2013)

Btw, this thread has has twenty thousands views, some of them may be the families of the deceased, we must keep this particular thread on topic.


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2013)

Bedroom Tax victim commits suicide



> Ten days ago Stephanie Bottrill sat in the redbrick terrace house which had been home for 18 years to write notes to her loved ones, the Sunday People reports .
> 
> She ripped the pages from a spiral-bound notebook and placed them neatly in little brown envelopes.
> 
> ...


----------



## ddraig (May 11, 2013)

saw that 
fuck ing hell


----------



## kittyP (May 11, 2013)

RIP


----------



## Libertad (May 11, 2013)

too much sadness


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2013)

Soon enough, tragic stories like this will not even be seen as newsworthy.

Very sad indeed.


----------



## panpete (May 11, 2013)

R.I.P.


----------



## treelover (May 12, 2013)

blood on their hands....


----------



## barney_pig (May 12, 2013)

teqniq said:


> Bedroom Tax victim commits suicide


Sky news are running with this, nothing on bbc


----------



## BigTom (May 12, 2013)

LBC radio this morning too apparently.


----------



## BigTom (May 12, 2013)

And the Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ies-leaving-note-saying-Government-blame.html


----------



## teqniq (May 12, 2013)




----------



## treelover (May 12, 2013)

Ring the BBC, tell them what you think..


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 12, 2013)




----------



## treelover (May 12, 2013)

just rang them, I think you are allocated about two minutes.


----------



## BigTom (May 12, 2013)

Telegraph, channel 4 website, metro and Birmingham mail all running this story too.


----------



## J Ed (May 12, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Sky news are running with this, nothing on bbc


 
Is this because there are specific rules on covering suicides in broadcast media?


----------



## J Ed (May 12, 2013)

The Guardian aren't covering it either.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 12, 2013)

The Mirror, The Independent, ITN also have the story


----------



## panpete (May 12, 2013)

It's very sad that this woman deliberately ran out in front of a lorry due to bedroom tax, but it's good that some English media are covering it, but they never covered the many suicides that were driven by Atos and the medicals.
English media are crap and I am getting more and more ashamed to be English every fucking day.


----------



## J Ed (May 12, 2013)

panpete said:


> It's very sad that this woman deliberately ran out in front of a lorry due to bedroom tax, but it's good that some English media are covering it, but they never covered the many suicides that were driven by Atos and the medicals.
> English media are crap and I am getting more and more ashamed to be English every fucking day.


 
Is the Scottish media covering this stuff? I had no idea!


----------



## panpete (May 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Is the Scottish media covering this stuff? I had no idea!


Yes, much more honestly and realistically than Engllsh media, probs cos we still have loads of people who believe in the tory ideology of hoarding wealth and to hell with everyone else.


----------



## existentialist (May 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Is this because there are specific rules on covering suicides in broadcast media?


There's rules on how they are reported (not too much details of means and methods, etc), but not on whether they should be.


----------



## panpete (May 12, 2013)

I think suicides should be reported honestly, cos that gives the public a more realistic picture of what happened, but, when was the media ever fair?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Is this because there are specific rules on covering suicides in broadcast media?


 
Nope. It's because someone somewhere along the command structure of the Beeb is making editorial decisions based on political motives. In the Beeb's case the political motive is mainly "don't piss off the government".


----------



## panpete (May 12, 2013)

.


----------



## treelover (May 12, 2013)

oops, lets keep it just for the losses,

that applies to me as well..


----------



## J Ed (May 12, 2013)

Most of the responses to the suicide on social media are shock and indignation but there are a few that really make me despair, there is a significant minority of people who really do not regard people on benefits (or at least on more benefits than they are) as human.


----------



## panpete (May 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> oops, lets keep it just for the losses,
> 
> that applies to me as well..


woops, sorry. My above post can be deleted if mods wish.


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Most of the responses to the suicide on social media are shock and indignation but there are a few that really make me despair, there is a significant minority of people who really do not regard people on benefits (or at least on more benefits than they are) as human.


No there isn't, it's just twats on the internet.


----------



## BigTom (May 12, 2013)

BBC Midlands today will be reporting this at 18:50 tonight according to their Twitter feed

Edit: not sure I've read their tweet right



> @bbcmtd 1850 Family of a Solihull woman say she killed herself because of pressure caused by government changes to housing benefit.



Thought the 1850 was referring to the time they were running the story but looking at their feed it isn't and I've no idea what it is


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 12, 2013)

There was something on R4 about the lady in Solihull earlier on sometime.


----------



## UhOhSeven (May 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Most of the responses to the suicide on social media are shock and indignation but there are a few that really make me despair, there is a significant minority of people who really do not regard people on benefits (or at least on more benefits than they are) as human.


 
Have you read this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/11/benefits-claimants-other-research


----------



## J Ed (May 12, 2013)

UhOhSeven said:


> Have you read this?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/11/benefits-claimants-other-research


 
Yes, it was what I was thinking about when I read the stuff actually


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 12, 2013)

http://trueblueviews.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/victory-disabled-kids-made-to-wallow-in-own-exrement/


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://trueblueviews.wordpress.com/2013/05/12/victory-disabled-kids-made-to-wallow-in-own-exrement/


 
One of the better satires.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2013)

.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 13, 2013)

There's a thing on Channel 4 tonight (9.00pm) about benefits and how people are being affected and surviving

*Skint*


> Documentary series that shows how people survive without work.  Dean used to work at Scunthorpe's steelworks, but now he, his wife and their seven children exist on benefits


----------



## treelover (May 13, 2013)

Minnie, and all can we keep this thread for the bereaved, etc

the campaign one would be fine for the above.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> Minnie, and all can we keep this thread for the bereaved, etc
> 
> the campaign one would be fine for the above.


 
Oh, am I on wrong thread 

Maybe the word campaign could be taken out of other one as I always assume it's for protests


----------



## panpete (May 13, 2013)

Should we have another thread for comments about the suicides due to welfare reforms, and leave this one just for listing the people we have lost. (*shivers* that sounds like we are going to lose more)
What do you all think?


----------



## Greebo (May 13, 2013)

panpete said:


> Should we have another thread for comments about the suicides due to welfare reforms, and leave this one just for listing the people we have lost. (*shivers* that sounds like we are going to lose more)<snip>


Agreed.


----------



## teqniq (May 14, 2013)

If anyone feels so inclined, there is an online condolences page for Stephanie Bottrill here.


----------



## brogdale (May 14, 2013)

Excellent point made on 'The Third Estate'...



> Following the government’s refusal to comment on the tragic suicide of Stephanie Bottrill, a number of people have pointed out _the *rather glaring inconsistency between this case and that of Mick Philpott.*_ George Osborne was notoriously eager to share his wisdom with us in that instance, but when a chronically ill grandmother took her own life in despair at the prospect of losing her home apparently it abruptly became inappropriate to comment on individual cases.


 
Prompting some twitter traffic too...


----------



## brogdale (May 14, 2013)

panpete said:


> Should we have another thread for comments about the suicides due to welfare reforms, and leave this one just for listing the people we have lost. (*shivers* that sounds like we are going to lose more)
> What do you all think?


 
I've just seen this.


----------



## audiotech (May 14, 2013)

Lord Freud and his weasel words:



> Clearly, it’s a desperately sad and tragic event, as you say, and I and my colleagues send our condolences to the family. But I’m not in a position to make any further comment than that clearly the relevant authorities need to investigate what actually happened; we don’t know yet.



We do, as Mrs Bottrilll left a note clearly stating that you and your ilk drove her to her death. 

Freud then goes on to talk about people sleeping on sofa beds.

http://www.cantpaywontpay.org/publish/?p=2920


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

Are all these Freuds related? Sigmund, Lucien, Emma, Lord, etc?


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2013)

yes.


----------



## BigTom (May 15, 2013)

I'm on my phone so don't know how to search the thread to see if Iain Hodges suicide has been posted before:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...hire-east-kilbride-_n_3272646.html?1368544547

Killed himself after 10 weeks of no money due to the dwp giving around with his ESA


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (May 15, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Lord Freud and his weasel words:
> 
> 
> We do, as Mrs Bottrilll left a note clearly stating that you and your ilk drove her to her death.
> ...


 
Her son is currently talking on This Morning


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2013)

Was this mentioned earlier? Payday loan scumbags. (Keyes Whitlock and Co, Mobile Money Ltd, 247 Moneybox.com, Cash Genie and Valour Loans)

Father set himself on fire after being hounded 'day and night' by loan sharks over £1,600 debt


----------



## Pickman's model (May 16, 2013)

panpete said:


> Should we have another thread for comments about the suicides due to welfare reforms, and leave this one just for listing the people we have lost. (*shivers* that sounds like we are going to lose more)
> What do you all think?


we are going to lose more


----------



## treelover (May 16, 2013)

The thread has had 2000 more views in a week, clearly non urbanites are viewing this thread for information/remembrance, maybe families are.


----------



## Frankie Jack (May 16, 2013)

treelover said:


> The thread has had 2000 more views in a week, clearly non urbanites are viewing this thread for information/remembrance, maybe families are.


I've linked to it in various places the past few weeks.


----------



## treelover (May 26, 2013)

> *Linda Wootton: Double heart and lung transplant dies nine days after she has benefits stopped*
> 
> 26 May 2013 00:01
> She was told her employment and support allowance was being stopped as she lay dying in a hospital bed
> ...


 
Not a death that can be directly attributed to benefits policy/cuts, but to be told that you are to lose your money after such an operation is callous in the extreme and may have caused complications.

Meanwhile Cameron swans around Ibitha


----------



## UhOhSeven (May 26, 2013)

This man is on hunger strike to the death after his money was stopped:

http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2013/05/23/victim-of-atos-goes-on-hunger-strike/


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2013)

He is now on day 16 of his hunger strike. 



> Today, George Rolph is in day 16 of his hunger strike, which he is doing for others going through what he has had to endure, whilst also trying to get the general public to wake up to what is happening to the most vulnerable people in the United Kingdom, a country which once cared for those who are vulnerable, sick and disabled.
> 
> He says he will not stop this hunger strike until the British government and ATOS stop their persecution of the sick, the disabled, the poor, the carers, the unemployed, even if it means he has to die in doing so.
> 
> Two days ago, his facebook account was deleted without warning or explanation, the media has chosen to ignore what George is doing, emails and messages to the BBC have been ignored so please share this information as widely as possible. You can also sign a petition calling for a parliamentary debate on his hunger strike here.


----------



## treelover (Jun 5, 2013)

no media coverage, afiak


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

> Liverpool mum suicide attempt as she struggled to cope with bedroom tax  8 Jun 2013 09:05
> Fazakerley mother swallowed 29 sleeping pills as she couldn't pay bills
> 
> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-mum-suicide-attempt-struggled-4279433


 
sick of the BBC blackout on all this


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2013)

Name check from Mr Bone...

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/bamn/



> I don’t want to see any more pictures on Facebook of people living in caves or shanty towns in the uk or look at lists of people who have killed themselves cos of tory policies (Urban 75). I’d much rather see lists of tory bastards who’ve been hospitalised by mobs or lone grudgers.


 
Hmmm.... hospitalising tory bastards; that sounds like a potential "Prism trigger"


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

please keep this one thread for victims of welfare reform.

and yes, that includes me...


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> please keep this one thread for victims of welfare reform.
> 
> and yes, that includes me...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 13, 2013)

brogdale said:


>


 
By victims, he means people who have died


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jun 13, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Name check from Mr Bone...
> 
> http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/bamn/
> 
> ...


 
Thread is being noticed then. Nice find Brogdale



treelover said:


> please keep this one thread for victims of welfare reform.
> 
> and yes, that includes me...


 
Don't be too much of a thread police. Posts like Brogdales above are informative too.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> By victims, he means people who have died


 
Oh, I see; that strict, eh?

Just thought that a reference to the thread in another forum was worthy of comment. I had no idea there were rules.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

Only this one, I'm sure bereaved families will be reading it, threats to tories on other threads yes , here no.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> Only this one, I'm sure bereaved families will be reading it, threats to tories on other threads yes , here no.


 
I'll not argue the point further; just seems a tad ironic that in a thread about the tories killing us, we can't......


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jun 13, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Oh, I see; that strict, eh?
> 
> Just thought that a reference to the thread in another forum was worthy of comment. I had no idea there were rules.


 
It's a dedicated thread, so the victims' stories wouldn't be buried under all the other chit-chat in the dozens of other threads


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> It's a dedicated thread, so the victims' stories wouldn't be buried under all the other chit-chat in the dozens of other threads


 
Noted.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

all good

now the documentation continues


----------



## treelover (Jun 19, 2013)

> Witnesses tell of their shock after woman plunges to her death from car park roof  18 Jun 2013 17:45
> An onlooker told the Birmingham Mail the woman was “very stressed” and , seconds before the fall, was shouting about the government, her house and child support
> 
> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/witnesses-tell-shock-after-woman-4417272


 

Sadly, it looks like there has been another casualty of the cuts and economic crisis

When this happened in Spain it was all over the Uk media, this just gets on the local one.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 19, 2013)

I'll compromise.


----------



## treelover (Jun 19, 2013)

thanks for posting that, really goes with the sombre theme of the thread which is for victims of the cuts 'reforms'.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 19, 2013)




----------



## treelover (Jun 19, 2013)

not on this thread....


----------



## toggle (Jun 19, 2013)

UhOhSeven said:


> This man is on hunger strike to the death after his money was stopped:
> 
> http://atosvictimsgroup.co.uk/2013/05/23/victim-of-atos-goes-on-hunger-strike/


 
http://www.afteratos.com/george-rolph-the-real-man-a-fake-and-a-very-disturbed-and-disturbing-man/


----------



## UhOhSeven (Jun 20, 2013)

What a charmer.

Despite supporting his stance over ATOS/DWP, it doesn't sound like a negative conclusion to his hunger strike would necessarily be A Bad Thing for society at large.

Mind you, if some of his more outré statements are due to his PTSD (as suggested in the comments) perhaps I ought to feel about guilty about expressing the above.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 20, 2013)

UhOhSeven said:


> What a charmer.
> 
> Despite supporting his stance over ATOS/DWP, it doesn't sound like a negative conclusion to his hunger strike would necessarily be A Bad Thing for society at large.
> 
> Mind you, if some of his more outré statements are due to his PTSD (as suggested in the comments) perhaps I ought to feel about guilty about expressing the above.


 
Guy who should be on the sick for being a nutter expresses nutcase opinions - Way it goes, eh?


----------



## treelover (Jul 22, 2013)

> Mum-of-three was told to find a job by Atos chiefs.. weeks later she died of a brain tumour  22 Jul 2013 07:31
> ELENORE TATTON had been ordered to find a job by the disability assessors but just weeks later she died from the brain tumour she had had since she was a teenager.
> 
> http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/mum-of-three-elenore-told-find-job-2074333
> ...


----------



## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)




----------



## vonruhland (Jul 30, 2013)

Hi folks, Brum Against Cuts directed me here: I'm compiling a list of names of those lost to be read out on Aug 3rd outside Buck House as a memorial - nb _not_ protest . (For further details see the We Shall Overcome FB page.)
I hope you don't mind me amalgamating names from here - thanks, Frankie Jack and others - with Calum's List etc. Acknowledgement shall be made.
Obviously, such a list can only be representative of the thousands who have lost their lives, but such an act is important.
Will let you know how things go.x


----------



## teqniq (Sep 4, 2013)

Crawley man killed himself after losing benefits



> A protest was staged in memory of a Crawley man who committed suicide after losing his benefits.
> 
> Unemployed electrician Lee Robinson, 39, took his own life after his housing benefit and council tax benefit was taken away.
> 
> ...


----------



## Schmetterling (Sep 10, 2013)

Thought this might best fit in here

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/10/world-suicide-prevention-day-government-help


----------



## treelover (Sep 28, 2013)

> story comes from the South Wales Argus on 27/09/13.
> Suicide Verdict
> A Blaenau Gwent man who warned Social Services he would kill himself if they stopped his benefits committed suicide, a coroner ruled yesterday.
> Gavin Leigh McDonald, 30, from Cwm, had his benefits withdrawn after being deemed physically fit to work, the inquest was told. On April 15th he told his long-term partner Emma Wells that he was going for a walk, but did not return. Two men travelling past Aberbeeg on a train reported to police that they had seen someone near a river, where Mr McDonald was later found hanging. Wendy James, area coroner for Gwent, sitting in Newport, ruled that the cause of death was suicide.


----------



## treelover (Sep 28, 2013)

> Heartbroken dad blames benefits axemen for driving his ill son to commit suicide  22 Sep 2013 08:23
> DAVID Barr, 28, threw himself from the Forth Road Bridge just weeks after finding out that his employment and support allowance would be withdrawn because assessor ruled that he was fit to work.
> 
> http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/heartbroken-dad-blames-benefits-axemen-2292176


----------



## Frankie Jack (Sep 29, 2013)

10.000 Cuts and Counting. 

 

Today in Parliament Square.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Sep 29, 2013)

Updating the list and putting together a FB page at the moment. Any links to more recent losses will be sincerely appreciated.. and they'll update this one too. Thanks lovelies. 

The FB page for anyone on there.


----------



## treelover (Sep 29, 2013)

On bbc headlines on red button, but not sure if the event was covered elsewhere on the network.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Sep 29, 2013)

Don't think it has been. Might attract unwanted attention.


----------



## audiotech (Oct 10, 2013)

'A 47-YEAR-OLD man overdosed on a cocktail of drugs after he had his benefits stopped because he was not given a proper medical assessment by the Department for Work and Pensions, an inquest heard.'

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Snein...fits-stopped/story-19906973-detail/story.html


----------



## Frankie Jack (Oct 10, 2013)




----------



## shagnasty (Oct 26, 2013)

I didn't want to start a seperate thread but replacement for disabled living allowance as been delayed ,another IDS fuck up


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/25/personal-independence-payments-postponed


----------



## treelover (Nov 8, 2013)

> *Bedroom Tax: Pensioner killed himself over fears he could not afford his home *
> 3 Nov 2013 00:00
> Charles Barden feared he would have to pay the bedroom tax and took his own life, inquest heard
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-pensioner-charles-barden-2670737#ixzz2jXWytLCb


 
When this happens in austerity Europe, it is all over the media here, not just the Mirror


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 19, 2013)

hardly surprising; the media in this country exists to promote tory and tory style ideology. look at their reaction to 'interloper' and 'brazil nut' Raquel Rolnik. How any of this changes, I don't know. IDS doesn't care though, his attitude is absolutely shocking. A bullying bald tyrant.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 19, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> hardly surprising; the media in this country exists to promote tory and tory style ideology. look at their reaction to 'interloper' and 'brazil nut' Raquel Rolnik. How any of this changes, I don't know. IDS doesn't care though, his attitude is absolutely shocking. A bullying *bald* tyrant.



Ah now come on - There's nothing wrong with being a slaphead.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 19, 2013)

Nope, but there's everything wrong with the likes of IDS and his Labour alter ego, Liam Byrne.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 25, 2013)

Bristol woman "killed herself after benefits were stopped"
PARTIALLY-sighted and only able to walk with the aid of a stick, Jacqueline Harris suffered crippling pain due to slipped discs in her back and neck. Her mobility was reduced further when a dog savaged one of her wrists.

Despite being in agony which strong pain relief could not ease, the 53-year-old was deemed to be fit for work following a government health assessment and told to seek work.

Her sister claims the verdict that she was ineligible for disability benefits drove her to take her own life earlier this month.

Nurse Christine Norman, top right, said her fitness-to-work assessment at a government-run centre lasted only a few minutes.

It is claimed that during the test she was only asked one question – "Did you come here by bus?", to which she answered 'yes'. The widow later received a letter by post telling her to find employment.

Ms Harris contested the ruling but was found dead at her home in Speedwell Road, Kingswood, on November 2 having taken an overdose.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 25, 2013)

Dialysis patient dies while battling bedroom tax red tape.

A KEMSING man has died battling red tape while struggling to recover from a series of heart attacks, strokes and kidney failure.

Julian Little, 47, was reeling after he faced the Government’s new bedroom tax even though his spare room had been converted into a dialysis facility by health chiefs.


----------



## treelover (Nov 25, 2013)

I hope the yellow tabloid journalists are directed to this thread.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> hardly surprising; the media in this country exists to promote tory and tory style ideology. look at their reaction to 'interloper' and 'brazil nut' Raquel Rolnik. How any of this changes, I don't know. IDS doesn't care though, his attitude is absolutely shocking. A bullying bald tyrant.



The media follow where they're pointed.  In the case of the national daily print media, much of it happens to be owned by right-wingers (_Telegraph_ titles/Barclay Bros: _Star_ and_ Express_ titles/Richard Desmond; _Mail_ titles/Rothermere; _Sun_ and _Times_ titles/Murdoch) who direct editorial policy (although all claim that they don't, ha-bloody-ha), so accusing the journalistic organs themselves of setting the agenda misses out that those organs are directed by powerful conduits for, and proponents of, capitalism.

As for Iain Dunked-in Shit, he's a zealot - the sort of fanatic that any rational person would walk miles to avoid.  It's not that he (like Blair) "doesn't care" about the damage done, it's much more that they don't believe that the damage done is an unfair price for them achieving their goals.  We are "collateral damage", and because we're for the most part politically-disempowered collateral damage, they feel that they need fear no reprisal either.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

IDS will never be held to account. Best case scenario, assuming he deigns to favour the select committee with an appearance, he will just say that he believes his own 'evidence'. You cannot reason with a man like this.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 25, 2013)

He needs the theological shit kicked out of him.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> IDS will never be held to account. Best case scenario, assuming he deigns to favour the select committee with an appearance, he will just say that he believes his own 'evidence'. You cannot reason with a man like this.



He may never be held to account by his "peers".  That's not to say he won't be held to account, though.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

We'll see what happens on th e9th when he's meant to appear before the select committee.

I'm hoping they really push his buttons (won't be hard) and he loses his shit big time.

Either that or drops down dead.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> We'll see what happens on th e9th when he's meant to appear before the select committee.
> 
> I'm hoping they really push his buttons (won't be hard) and he loses his shit big time.
> 
> Either that or drops down dead.


I don't want him to die quickly, he doesn't deserve it. Let him die a slow wretched death in poverty as he has wished upon so many others.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> I don't want him to die quickly, he doesn't deserve it. Let him die a slow wretched death in poverty as he has wished upon so many others.


I'll take either, tbh.

Though i'd be concerned with whoever Osbourne decides should replace him because his ideas for welfare are no less scary. According to Simon Hughes (of all people), Osbourne wanted to cut 10% per year of an individual's JSA claim, if they 'lingered' on the dole for a long time.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> We'll see what happens on th e9th when he's meant to appear before the select committee.
> 
> I'm hoping they really push his buttons (won't be hard) and he loses his shit big time.
> 
> Either that or drops down dead.



If they ask him anything even vaguely awkward, he _will_ blow his top. He always does. Maybe he'll suffer an aneurysm. We can but hope.


----------



## panpete (Nov 26, 2013)

The Welfare Reforms have claimed another human being.

*Sick nurse killed herself after disability benefits were cut and she was ruled 'fit to work' *

Check out all the latest News, Sport & Celeb gossip at Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sick-nurse-jacqueline-harris-killed-2851486#ixzz2lkay1xkm 
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sick-nurse-jacqueline-harris-killed-2851486


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 26, 2013)

> Jacqueline Harris was partially sighted, required walking sticks, had a bad back and was in constant pain due to arthritis in her neck



So eminently qualified to go to the front of the jobs queue.

What's most insidious about the tory IDSeology is that they think this is helping people; that by curtailing her benefit and ending her claim (which is done instantly - no grace period) she will immediately be employed. As if employment will rush in like seawater in to a leaking boat. 

The reality is that people get their money stopped and then cut adrift with no support and expected to find for themselves. No help at all. No grace period, no support, nothing. 

if you're on the WP this means that the protections (such as they are) from the full force of the WP are suddenly removed and they can be compelled by the prtovider to do anything.


----------



## existentialist (Nov 26, 2013)

With you on all that, Awesome Wells, except that I don't think that most of these people truly believe that cutting off benefits really helps (particularly disabled) people back to work - it's just a convenient myth that plays into the other myth that everyone on benefits is a feckless loser for whom not working is a lifestyle choice.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 26, 2013)

existentialist said:


> With you on all that, @AwesomeWells,except that I don't think that most of these people truly believe that cutting off benefits really helps (particularly disabled) people back to work - it's just a convenient myth that plays into the other myth that everyone on benefits is a feckless loser for whom not working is a lifestyle choice.



What they believe is that welfare gets in the way of someone like Jackie. That's just cruel.

IDS actually believes this, like the yanks his party wants to copy. They think that social security, benefits, are an impediment. Never mind that they themselves receive benefits.


----------



## existentialist (Nov 26, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> What they believe is that welfare gets in the way of someone like Jackie. That's just cruel.
> 
> IDS actually believes this, like the yanks his party wants to copy. They think that social security, benefits, are an impediment. Never mind that they themselves receive benefits.


I agree with you that the zealot IDS may well believe it - he is both enough of an ideologue *and* stupid enough to have been able to convince himself that beating someone with a stick to get better works.

But I truly don't believe that the majority of the people involved with the making and implementing of these plans *do* believe this nonsense. It just serves their ends quite nicely to carry on as if they believe it.

Which, somehow, makes IDS somewhat less evil (a concept I have real trouble with!), and them more cynically evil.

Either way, it's shit, and it should not be allowed to continue.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Nov 27, 2013)

Has anyone set up a Facebook page for all this information? Might reach a wider audience.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 27, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/10000AndCounting


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 27, 2013)

Why is Westminster not burning?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 27, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Why is Westminster not burning?



Because it's surrounded by a ring of armed police.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 30, 2013)

In memory of audiotech, for whom the struggle was too much. RIP audiotech x


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 30, 2013)

Sad news. Cheerio audiotech.


----------



## articul8 (Dec 11, 2013)

^Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet:
http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/37060/Chris+Maguire+1952-2013


----------



## cesare (Dec 11, 2013)




----------



## yield (Dec 11, 2013)




----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 11, 2013)

Nice to put a face to a name, but so sad it's under these circumstances


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 11, 2013)

articul8 said:


> ^Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet:
> http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/37060/Chris Maguire 1952-2013


Just in case people don't click the link - Chris posted here as audiotech and MC5. And he fought a long fight, first against his employer then against the state. I'm sorry that those of who were helping out via pm were ultimately so powerless to effect things.


----------



## treelover (Dec 13, 2013)

> *A DISABLED man was crushed by financial pressure in the weeks before his death, according to a friend.*
> 
> Denis Jones, aged 58, was discovered at his Tarleton Avenue home, in Atherton, on December 1 after a friend became concerned about him after not seeing him for several days and called the police.
> 
> http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/20...therton-home-after-his-benefits-were-stopped/




Another sad loss, this is a crime and the L/P and the media should be ashamed of itself not speaking out.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Dec 13, 2013)

I think IDS is the most dangerous man in Britain.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Dec 13, 2013)

articul8 said:


> ^Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet:
> http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/37060/Chris Maguire 1952-2013





> That was about six weeks ago. Cheered by this result, Chris appeared more chipper than he had done in years.



And that's how they get you. Oh you're looking well? BANG! No more money for you as you ain't no more depressed.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 16, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/16/ministers-ignored-advice-fit-for-work-tests

Sorry if you all knew about this; I have not read the thread for ages.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Dec 26, 2013)

Mrs Cooksey, aged 60, said her brother, who was agoraphobic, “never asked for help” and she never imagined changes to the country’s benefits system would affect him.
Relatives only pieced together his dire predicament after discovering a repossession order from South Staffordshire Housing Association in the bin. Dated September 17 - it had given Mr Salter ten days to leave the home he had lived in all his life.

He committed suicide on September 25, two days before the eviction date.

*Disabled Kinver man killed himself after being left "almost destitute" when his state benefits were axed*


----------



## panpete (Dec 28, 2013)

woops sorry duplicate


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> ^Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet:
> http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/37060/Chris Maguire 1952-2013



Fuck. 

"Church based housing association"?

I worked for one that they were scumbags. Evangelicals.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 4, 2014)

http://welfarenewsservice.com/recovering-alcoholic-committed-suicide-ordered-prove-unfit-work/



> *Recovering alcoholic, 24-year-old Michael McNicholas, was found dead on a golf course the day after receiving a second letter from the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), ordering him to attend a Work Capability Assessment (WCA) and prove that he was ‘unfit for work’.*
> 
> His Mother has hit out against the DWP claiming that the pressure on her son to get a job contributed to his suicide.
> 
> Sue, 56, told the Daily Mirror: “The letter upset him and I feel it played a big part in his suicide. He wasn’t well enough to be in work.” She also claims that Jobcentre staff refused permission for Michael to enrol upon a plastering course in Stoke-on-Trent.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 4, 2014)

Sadly I can well believe JC staff refused permission. This bizarre attitude among some staff is all too common these days.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 5, 2014)

Yep, if a course is more than 16hrs/wk you've no chance, although him being under 25 I thought he would be allowed.

 I hope the staff member who refused the course reads this story and considers the part their actions played.


----------



## treelover (Jan 5, 2014)

What is to be done?


----------



## panpete (Jan 5, 2014)

I just found out Audiotech is dead  

RIP Autiotech.

Are these suicides increasing or is it just me?
Here's another one that this thread does not yet know about.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grandad-shaun-pilkington-shoots-himself-2989685


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jan 5, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/10000AndCounting

Growing weekly.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 11, 2014)

Here's an update regarding Stephanie Bottrill, whose suicide was documented upthread:



> A woman who killed herself last year, leaving a note in which she blamed her death on financial stress exacerbated by the bedroom tax, would have been exempt and eligible for a housing benefit refund were she still alive, it has emerged.



http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/10/bedroom-tax-exemptions-stephanie-bottrill

Incompetent murdering bastards.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 11, 2014)

I saw that. Disgusting. 

But they will spin this: IDS will say that he could have helped her had she not gone to the extreme. That it was (her, that's the implication) mistake (even when it was theirs).

You watch if this isn't how it gets played out. The whole thing is repugndant.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 11, 2014)




----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

The tragic deaths of all listed here must be kept for all to see.. There are many more. It is a stain for all who live and still breathe that we must keep stabbing the eyes of blind men and make them see the dead and the tear stained families they shunned and despised. Shame on you who did this to them.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

ATOS the disability denial factory. Kicked out of US.. French IT company.. Employed by Britain.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I've also come across snippets in various places about a story of a man with a glass eye that with corrective surgery he would regain his eyesight. I'm not sure if this is a joke or whether it's true or a joke though  [/quote


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Minnie,
It isn't a joke..if you fell Ill tomorrow you would be questioned as to the genuineness/veracity of your illness/disability. Your GP/Consultant/ Psych/CPN would be perhaps/probably ignored and the ATOS  hcp would give a flavoured account to your present difficulties and find you fit for work. Your severe health and chronic conditions not considered at all.. To your detriment.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)




----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

It is also possible that a man with a glass eye can be fit for work.. It comes down to visual acuity and there are perameters for that too... So being visually impaired is not enough for the Tory's


----------



## Greebo (Jan 14, 2014)

Growl said:


> Minnie,
> It isn't a joke..if you fell Ill tomorrow you would be questioned as to the genuineness/veracity of your illness/disability. Your GP/Consultant/ Psych/CPN would be perhaps/probably ignored and the ATOS  hcp would give a flavoured account to your present difficulties and find you fit for work. Your severe health and chronic conditions not considered at all.. To your detriment.


FWIW Minnie isn't new to this subject, it's just that even she struggles to believe quite how amazingly stupidly bad ATOS and the DWP can be at times.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I think IDS is the most dangerous man in Britain.


He is a toxic piece of shit.. Can I also say as a new member...a quiet and polite hello?.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Greebo said:


> FWIW Minnie isn't new to this subject, it's just that even she struggles to believe quite how amazingly stupidly bad ATOS and the DWP can be at times.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 14, 2014)

Would it be too much to ask that you make your comments visible?


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Sorry folks..not meaning to be abrasive... Just getting into it here!
Liking what is being said... And just itching for the day we get a reckoning.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

If you want to know what really goes on acquaint yourselves with these sites... Then tell me that all benefit claimants are "scum"!:
Dwp examinations
Diaryofabenefitscrounger
Johnny void
Sparticus
Blacktriangle


----------



## ddraig (Jan 14, 2014)

some of those people post or posted here
welcome


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Nice to put a face to a name, but so sad it's under these circumstances


----------



## Greebo (Jan 14, 2014)

Growl said:


> Sorry folks..not meaning to be abrasive... Just getting into it here!
> Liking what is being said... And just itching for the day we get a reckoning.


Got it - you meant to click on "like" but instead clicked on "reply".  Try aiming slightly more to the left.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Got it - you meant to click on "like" but instead clicked on "reply".  Try aiming slightly more to the left.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 14, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Got it - you meant to click on "like" but instead clicked on "reply".  Try aiming slightly more to the left.



indeed.  we tend not to be so keen on people who veer to the right round here...


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Oh if only I knew how!!!!


----------



## Greebo (Jan 14, 2014)

Further than that.  

Alternatively, you could just reply with "Word" or "This" etc.  But enough with the uncommented-on quotes already.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

I know a song about that... But yer mother would slap me!!


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

I just "liked" all of you.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Would it be too much to ask that you make your comments visible?


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

New to forum ..


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

Growl said:


> New to forum ..


I don't know how to use the forum properly.. It's new to me. But Just with the nervous foray into urban75 I hope you will leave me with my nerve intact and my integrity solid.


----------



## Growl (Jan 14, 2014)

May I ask if I am welcome here?.. Just new and unsure.


----------



## Growl (Jan 15, 2014)

Growl said:


> May I ask if I am welcome here?.. Just new and unsure.


how?


----------



## free spirit (Jan 15, 2014)

Growl said:


> May I ask if I am welcome here?.. Just new and unsure.


sure you will be, but maybe not the thread to be threadbombing with these posts please.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 15, 2014)

Growl said:


> If you want to know what really goes on acquaint yourselves with these sites... Then tell me that all benefit claimants are "scum"!:
> Dwp examinations
> Diaryofabenefitscrounger
> Johnny void
> ...


Thank you for posting these sites, however once you are better acquainted with urban you will see that many of us are already familiar with them. 

This isn't really a thread for discussion, it's for remembering all that have succumbed due to these policies. Have a look around at other threads on the topic. There's a benefits subforum within the employment section as well as numerous threads in here.

welcome to urban.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 15, 2014)

Greebo said:


> FWIW Minnie isn't new to this subject, it's just that even she struggles to believe quite how amazingly stupidly bad ATOS and the DWP can be at times.



Half the reason I'm staying off U75 is to give myself a break from the anger and stress of reading all this nonsense about the DWP/Atos/IDS/et al etc.  So sick of being stressed out wondering what we're going to be hit with next, I decided the only way to avoid it was to avoid U75.  Would be nice if you could just put certain parts of U75 (like *politics*) on ignore, and not to have to see all these posts


----------



## cesare (Jan 15, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Half the reason I'm staying off U75 is to give myself a break from the anger and stress of reading all this nonsense about the DWP/Atos/IDS/et al etc.  So sick of being stressed out wondering what we're going to be hit with next, I decided the only way to avoid it was to avoid U75.  Would be nice if you could just put certain parts of U75 (like *politics*) on ignore, and not to have to see all these posts


You can ignore threads, Minnie! (thread tools, at the top right hand corner)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 15, 2014)

cesare said:


> You can ignore threads, Minnie!



oh, thought you could only ignore people

Anyway, don't want to chit chat on this thread, so will have to figure out how to do it


----------



## cesare (Jan 15, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> oh, thought you could only ignore people
> 
> Anyway, don't want to chit chat on this thread, so will have to figure out how to do it


I edited in how to do it, above


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 15, 2014)

Anyway, it's seems disrespectful to put this thread on ignore so I won't


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm sorry you feel that way, Minnie. 
Your presence here is sorely missed


----------



## treelover (Jan 15, 2014)

its hard for anyone who is affected though, never mind empathetic/sympathetic people who aren't


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm sorry you feel that way, Minnie.
> Your presence here is sorely missed



Oh I'm not gone forever!  just need a break from anger and frustration.  I'll be back to angry in no time


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 20, 2014)

http://bilgewatch.wordpress.com/201...e-to-turn-off-and-tune-out-tell-your-friends/


----------



## treelover (Jan 20, 2014)

> I have just checked the 2011 Census returns for the lower layer super output area that contains James Turner Street (Birmingham 047E). This includes neighbouring streets such as Eva Road, Willes Road, Markby Road, Preston Road and part of Perrott Street. Total number of adults recorded was 1,422. 109 were retired. Of the remainder, 74% were either in employment, in education or looking after the home or family. Only 12% were reported to be unemployed and 5% Long-Term Sick or Disabled.
> http://www.neighbourhood.statistics...m=0&r=1&s=1390230477432&enc=1&dsFamilyId=2521



poster on CIF

oops wrong thread,


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jan 22, 2014)

A mentally ill woman forced on to the Coalition’s Work Programme is in a coma – but is still being sent letters by benefits assessors.

Bipolar patient Sheila Holt, 47, was sectioned in December after being taken off Income Support. Days later she had a heart attack and fell into the coma.

This weekend, Miss Holt, of Rochdale, Gtr Manchester, was sent a letter by Atos to ask why she was not working.

Local Labour MP Simon Danczuk said: "I am in favour of welfare reform but trying to bulldoze through changes in a reckless and insensitive way is not the right way to go about it.

“This Government is causing a huge amount of damage and I have no doubt that Sheila’s story is being repeated in towns and cities up and down the country.

“She has a complex disability caused by severe trauma in her childhood and you cannot aggressively push vulnerable people, like Sheila, back into work because it can have, as we’ve seen, very serious health consequences.”

Her dad Kenneth said: “It’s just not right what they have done. It sent my daughter hypermanic.

“She said to me, ‘they are going to knock my money off me dad’. I said they wouldn’t do that. She wasn’t looking for a job - she couldn’t - until they forced her to.

“She hadn’t had a job for 26 years. Anyone who knew her would tell you she couldn’t do a job.”


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 30, 2014)

I wasn't sure where to put this. The Council of Europe has declared that the UK's benefits are less than generous (but we already knew that). Of course IDS, McVile and the Vapour Party will all disagree.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/29/uk-benefits-inadequate-council-of-europe?CMP=twt_gu



> Duncan Smith said: "This government has made great strides in fixing the welfare system so that spending is brought under control. It's lunacy for the Council of Europe to suggest welfare payments need to increase when we paid out £204bn in benefits and pensions last year alone.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> I wasn't sure where to put this. The Council of Europe has declared that the UK's benefits are less than generous (but we already knew that). Of course IDS, McVile and the Vapour Party will all disagree.
> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/29/uk-benefits-inadequate-council-of-europe?CMP=twt_gu



Of course, pensions are no more "welfare" than most social security payments are, the mendacious Mekon-headed shit-stick.


----------



## treelover (Jan 30, 2014)

> Local Labour MP Simon Danczuk said: "I am in favour of welfare reform but trying to bulldoze through changes in a reckless and insensitive way is not the right way to go about it.



This is the guy who relentlessly goes on about 'scroungers', etc.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Jan 30, 2014)




----------



## existentialist (Jan 30, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


>


...and then I'm going to s-l-o-w-l-y reduce their council tax benefit, slap them with a bedroom tax, make them spend all their time applying for pointless jobs, do everything I can to stop food banks from feeding them, while I go on endlessly about "making work pay".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2014)

existentialist said:


> ...and then I'm going to s-l-o-w-l-y reduce their council tax benefit, slap them with a bedroom tax, make them spend all their time applying for pointless jobs, do everything I can to stop food banks from feeding them, while I go on endlessly about "making work pay".



And people wonder why he needs an armed guard!


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 31, 2014)

It would be nice if those armed guards did an 'Indira Gandhi' on him. 

But then that would result in a Golden Temple style massacre of anyone who cheered in the aftermath of his death.


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Jan 31, 2014)

Iain Duncan Smith is a social criminal, and this thread is full of his victims.   I do hope that one day he will realise what he has done.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 31, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> Iain Duncan Smith is a social criminal, and this thread is full of his victims.   I do hope that one day he will realise what he has done.



He won't, he thinks he's on the path of righteousness and wants to drag the rest of us with him. The bloke's a fucking sociopath.


----------



## free spirit (Feb 5, 2014)

> Anders Verkitso 2 hours ago
> My wife was assessed as being fit for work, despite being bipolar and in the middle of an epic depression. Such was her brokenness, she tried to kill herself. Thanks, ATOS.





> thruthseeker 2 hours ago
> Katherine’s Story
> 
> Every year i fill out my ESA form, I go to the medical and fail (of Course) then it goes all the way to tribunal and i win my case. This has happened four years in a row now at considerable expense to the tax payer and i find myself waiting for the that brown envelope in the door any day now for the whole process to start again. I have been given anti depressants and a course of sleeping tablets by my GP (who is furious about it all and the time he has to spend on letter writing) to cope with the anticipation of having to make a new claim for ESA and the failure that is to follow resulting from the medical.
> ...


taken from the comments section on this article

Not sure if this is the right thread, but seemed the best place to cross post them.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 8, 2014)

I look at this thread infrequently. Fills me with sorrow and anger. They will not be forgotten. They can't be. Pure, pure evil, masked by manufactured consent.

When's the British Spring?


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Feb 20, 2014)

<removed at posters request: LL>


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Feb 21, 2014)

<removed at posters request: LL>


----------



## treelover (Feb 21, 2014)

He's pointing at Owen Jones there on QT, proclaiming he is liberating claimants, the ones that aren't dead yet...


----------



## treelover (Feb 21, 2014)

oops, just realised this(again) is the thread for lost ones, etc, bereaved families have been know to see this thread, can posters just post up the sad losses?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Feb 24, 2014)

Man who was too ill to attend fit-for-work interview but terrified of losing benefits dies after Atos test


A SERIOUSLY ill man died hours after he was hauled into an Atos fit-for-work assessment.

Terry McGarvey knew he wasn’t well enough to attend the hearing. But he was terrified his benefits would be stopped if he didn’t turn up.

He dragged himself to the assessment but had to be taken to hospital in an ambulance. Terry, 48, died the next day.

His brother Charlie, 50, said: “He said he felt terrible and didn’t think he could leave the house.

“But he was worried they’d take his benefits away if he didn’t go.

“When he went in, he sat down with a young woman who started asking him questions.

“I pointed out that he needed an ambulance, not a medical.

“They put us into a room next door and lay him on a bed. We waited more than an hour for the ambulance without anyone coming in to even ask how he was.”

Terry, who had blood disorder polycytheamia, died in Glasgow’s Victoria Infirmary from pneumonia last month. His death certificate also lists liver disease.


----------



## superfly101 (Feb 24, 2014)

^^^^ That story has made it into the Mirror - tragic is an understatement!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terry-mcgarvey-man-ill-attend-3178486#ixzz2uG6MGZLC


----------



## Frankie Jack (Feb 24, 2014)

Daily Record and Mirror are sister papers.


----------



## bywhacky (Feb 28, 2014)

another for the list 

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11043378.Man_starved_after_benefits_were_cut/


----------



## Frankie Jack (Feb 28, 2014)

From the link above. 



> A "VULNERABLE and fragile" man starved to death four months after most of his benefits were stopped and he was left with just £40 a week to survive on.
> 
> Atos Healthcare – which assesses peoples’ ability to work on behalf of the Government’s Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) – ruled that 44-year-old Mark Wood, from Bampton, was fit to work.
> 
> ...


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 28, 2014)

Frankie Jack said:


> From the link above.





The sort of impotence I'm feeling right now about this evil scares me, because it forces me to conclude that IDS and the rest have forfeited their humanity.

We must NEVER forget.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 1, 2014)

IDS is psychotic. There's no other explanation. He needs to be sectioned.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> IDS is psychotic. There's no other explanation. He needs to be sectioned.



No, he's not psychotic.  His vileness isn't caused by psychological disturbance or psychiatric pathology, it's caused by *faith*.  Faith in the politics he espouses, faith that he's right, and faith in his G-d.
He doesn't need sectioning, he needs to have his faith broken - he needs to be subjected to a latter-day version of Job's trials.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> IDS is psychotic. There's no other explanation. He needs to be sectioned.


TBF, I think that's pretty harsh on genuinely psychotic people, who have plenty to contend with already without having to have IDS lumped in with them.

If IDS is ignorant of what he is doing to people, it is wilful ignorance borne of a choice not to see what's in front of his face, not delusion.

He should not even have the figleaf of psychosis to excuse himself from what he is doing.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 2, 2014)

existentialist said:


> TBF, I think that's pretty harsh on genuinely psychotic people, who have plenty to contend with already without having to have IDS lumped in with them.
> 
> If IDS is ignorant of what he is doing to people, it is wilful ignorance borne of a choice not to see what's in front of his face, not delusion.
> 
> He should not even have the figleaf of psychosis to excuse himself from what he is doing.


It's not a judgement on people with such problems. 

It's trying to explain and understand how he thinks because god knows something is informing his actions and the devastation they are causing.


ViolentPanda said:


> No, he's not psychotic.  His vileness isn't caused by psychological disturbance or psychiatric pathology, it's caused by *faith*.  Faith in the politics he espouses, faith that he's right, and faith in his G-d.
> He doesn't need sectioning, he needs to have his faith broken - he needs to be subjected to a latter-day version of Job's trials.


I doubt, like the rest of them, that he isn't really a faithful christian. It's just part of the job. I doubt he even goes to church outside of births deaths marriages and christmas. It's just that politicians in modern society have to adopt the prevailing faith of the day.

God only knows what he really thinks. I'm not sure I even want to understand this man. All i know is that he, and his disgusting party of wolves, need stopping. ASAP.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 2, 2014)

. (just remembered that this isn't the thread for these debates. Oops. Sorry)


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 2, 2014)

Aspects of why this is happening need to be debated existentialist. Here is as good a place as any. When I started the thread I didn't include or expect posting rules.


----------



## treelover (Mar 2, 2014)

Families of the bereaved may read this thread, imo, there are many others that can be used for debate, do others agree?


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## Frankie Jack (Mar 2, 2014)

The pics like the ones above are not warranted or wanted yet they are there. They add nothing to any debate and are probably offensive to some looking in. Most who come to the thread can add comment without it turning into anything disrespectful.


----------



## Libertad (Mar 2, 2014)

Frankie Jack said:


> The pics like the ones above are not warranted or wanted yet they are there. They add nothing to any debate and are probably offensive to some looking in. Most who come to the thread can add comment without it turning into anything disrespectful.



I agree. I'd be grateful if Obnoxiousness would remove post #643.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 2, 2014)

Libertad said:


> I agree. I'd be grateful if Obnoxiousness would remove post #643.


If over 48 hours, it's too late to do that without self-reporting.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 2, 2014)

This is more of a memorial thread than a debating thread, bearing in mind that relatives of those killed by this system may read it.

There are plenty of other threads where debates of various aspects can be held, to be honest.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 3, 2014)

A grieving husband received official letters addressed to his late wife months after her death – threatening to stop her incapacity benefits.

Alan Baxter, 39, lost his wife Lyn in June last year – but continued to receive letters from Atos Healthcare warning her that her benefits would be cut off unless she attended a meeting.

Atos Healthcare, a government organisation which conducts disability benefit assessments, continued to contact Lyn Ashby-Baxter for six months after her death at the age of 49.

The letters informed Lyn – who had suffered from a range of medical issues – that if she didn’t attend an assessment her incapacity benefit would be cut.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/grieving-nunetaon-husbands-anguish-over-6766033


----------



## treelover (Mar 3, 2014)




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## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2014)

bastards x


----------



## treelover (Mar 10, 2014)

wrong thread, deleted


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 26, 2014)

Mental Welfare Commission rules that the WCA was the main (if not only) factor contributing to a woman who took her own life in 2011:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26740651


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## Awesome Wells (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm so tired of the complete lack of understanding mental health.

People that don't have these feelings or problems simply cannot know the desperation. 

In fact, speaking from my own experience, as someone that passed their ESA through appeal, I know myself that such issues are not always or even dependent on outside circumstances. Maybe she felt that, having all the things the article mentions that others might presume preclude depression, the fear of loss becomes acute and a contributory factor. In some ways my own mental health has gotten worse after winning the appeal. I have some money in the bank, for the moment, but the problems still remain. These are problems that are not easily explained or understood - especially against a backdrop where people are, unfortunately prejudcied against them. Where the systems intended to support, ie the DWP, fall so very very short.

The DWP then tout their ignorance as an excuse they might say things like "she seemed fine to us". Well clearly that wasn't the case.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 27, 2014)

Yes, it's faulty logic: "we can't prove it exists, therefore it doesn't exist"


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 28, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Mental Welfare Commission rules that the WCA was the main (if not only) factor contributing to a woman who took her own life in 2011:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26740651



Article with a bit more feeling and humanity than that BBC. So many of the Beebs articles are 'matter of fact' these days I feel. 

Woman with ‘a lot to live for’ took her own life after ‘flawed’ Atos work capability assessment slashed her benefits by a third, watchdog says


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 29, 2014)

Sincere apologies for the fail link. 

'We were wrong': Government admits it should not have axed disability benefits of Asperger's sufferer who starved to death just five months later weighing five-and-a-half stone 

Mr Wood's GP Nicolas Ward has blasted the Government-backed contrator for 'pushing him' before he died.


Speaking at an inquest into his patient's death, he said: 'Something pushed him or affected him in the time before he died and the only thing I can put my finger on is the pressure he felt he was under when his benefits were removed.'

He added that he was an extremely vulnerable and fragile individual who was struggling to cope with life.

Mr Wood, from Bampton, Oxfordshire, had suffered for years from obsessive compulsive disorder, Asperger's syndrome, phobias of food, pollution, paint fumes, and social situations, and cognitive behavioural problems. 

However, in March last year Atos insisted he was fit to work.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-weighing-five-half-stone.html#ixzz2xMsIXDQr


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 29, 2014)

Was just coming to post the same thing Frankie Jack - as the family said, it's a hollow victory as it doesn't bring him back.

I thought it was pretty low of the DWP to try to blame his GP for not giving them 'the right information' though.


> Today, they received a letter from the DWP saying it had 'revised' its decision to cut Mr Wood's benefits.
> A spokesman said: 'The coroner attributed Mr Wood's eating disorder and food phobia as the likely cause of his death, rather than his benefits being stopped.
> 'However, after receiving new evidence from Mark Wood's GP which was not presented at the first assessment, we have revised our original decision.
> 'We have written to Mr Wood's family about this decision and are carrying out an internal review.'


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 29, 2014)

Aye it is. They don't/didn't ask for evidence until appeal. His phobia was only one reason he should never have had his benefit taken away. There's not an excuse on the planet for the vile deeds of the WCA, DWP and Atos.


----------



## treelover (Mar 29, 2014)

> phobias of food, pollution, paint fumes,




These are not always 'phobias', they are real, for example, I have a friend who is so sensitive that she can only user a computer for about fifteen minutes.


----------



## superfly101 (Apr 5, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Mental Welfare Commission rules that the WCA was the main (if not only) factor contributing to a woman who took her own life in 2011:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26740651


Link to actual MWC Scotlands' report finding on the case above. 

http://www.mwcscot.org.uk/media/180939/who_benefits_final.pdf


----------



## Frankie Jack (Apr 5, 2014)

A disabled man died penniless when he lost his benefits after being judged fit to work.

Robert Barlow died last November aged 47 while suffering from a heart defect and brain tumour.

He was deemed fit to work by benefits assessors Atos despite doctors at the time urging him to have a heart transplant – he passed away less than two years later.

Now his family and Labour MP Luciana Berger want the Government to learn lessons from this tragic case.

His aunt Joan Westland, 85, said: “I don’t know how they expected him to work. Nobody would have loved to work more than him but he simply couldn’t.”

University of Liverpool graduate Mr Barlow, from Wavertree, worked as a Government scientist but gave up his job nine years ago when diagnosed with severe cardiomyopathy, a weakness or failure of the heart muscle.

By the end of his life he could not walk, struggled to read due to poor eyesight and often fell over, smashing his teeth on one occasion.

Doctors eventually gave Mr Barlow a year and a half to live and recommended a heart transplant.

He was often in and out of hospital during his final months. He never married or had children.

Mrs Westland said: “Robert said he wouldn’t have the heart transplant. He had no commitments and thought it would be better if there was a heart for it to go to somebody else.

“We tried to talk him into having the operation but he wouldn’t do it.”

 Mr Barlow, born in Wallasey, was given a fitness-to-work test by Atos in January 2012 and his Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) was stopped three months later. He also lost the right to free NHS prescriptions.

Mrs Westland said: “Robert was dying and he accepted that. I feel he should have been left to enjoy what little time he had left.”

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) says Mr Barlow initially challenged the decision to stop his benefits but the appeal was withdrawn because, according to Mrs Westland, he felt too ill to fight the case.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/dying-merseyside-man-told-benefits-6924979


----------



## treelover (Apr 6, 2014)

> Mrs Westland said: “Robert said he wouldn’t have the heart transplant. He had no commitments and thought it would be better if there was a heart for it to go to somebody else.
> “We tried to talk him into having the operation but he wouldn’t do it.”



He sounds a very compassionate and brave man RIP Robert.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Apr 15, 2014)

He withdrew his appeal on health grounds, and no doubt IDS didn't think to pursue that claim on his behalf because it might be to the claimant's benefit. Heartless.


----------



## treelover (Apr 15, 2014)

It's all too much, many of us felt the 80's were the epitome of callousness, nothing compared to this decade.


----------



## eskdave (May 4, 2014)

free spirit said:


> taken from the comments section on this article
> 
> Not sure if this is the right thread, but seemed the best place to cross post them.


Fuck these hypocritical pseudo government patrician brain dead wallahs-UK is saturated with priviledge far above its natural water table-they succeed in taking the biscuit-for a watered down version of hydrodynamics-consult your own noodle-yt eskdave


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 4, 2014)

> Ms Berger told the Sunday ECHO: “It’s not enough to change the provider. The whole process needs to be totally redesigned.
> 
> “My constituent is someone who lost his life at a time when his ESA was suspended.
> 
> ...


 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/dying-merseyside-man-told-benefits-6924979

Compassionate Conservatism at work ...


----------



## Awesome Wells (May 5, 2014)

"the billions we spend a year"

!


----------



## eskdave (May 5, 2014)

yes-that was a good one


----------



## Frankie Jack (May 20, 2014)

Archived url as it's a Daily Hate article.

After an inquest in Heywood into Mr Hadfield’s death, his stepfather Peter O’Gorman, 47, said: ‘Martin was obviously never a statistic to us.
'But in the last months of his life he became a statistic to other people. He was a statistic by being out of work, a statistic when he went into the job centre and now he a statistic by killing himself.
‘Sadly this statistic seems to be growing especially in boys Martin’s age who are struggling in the current climate, or struggling with life and they forget to think about talking to someone.

http://archive.today/0JipO


----------



## treelover (May 20, 2014)




----------



## Orang Utan (May 20, 2014)

That's so sad. A whole generation is being made to feel surplus to requirements


----------



## treelover (May 20, 2014)

the 80's accelerated...


----------



## Awesome Wells (May 20, 2014)

http://uk-unemployed-betrayed.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/husband-killed-no-safety-net-one-year.html


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jun 3, 2014)

Different country, but....



> The 64-year-old Lincoln man shot to death by deputies Friday _(during an eviction/foreclosure)_ was armed with an _unloaded rifle_ and did not shoot, Lincoln Police Chief Jim Peschong said Monday. ....
> 
> DaMoude barricaded himself inside his former home at 5901 English Park Court about 2 p.m. Friday as four sheriff’s deputies forced their way in to remove him and his belongings, Peschong said.
> 
> Two locksmiths disabled the locks, and deputies rammed into the entryway, where DaMoude pointed a gun at them, he said. One deputy grabbed the gun and fought with DaMoude, and two others fired five shots, hitting him on the left side of the head, in the chin and twice in the left bicep.



I'm surprised more foreclosures aren't met with this.  He'd been making threats against the cops if they came, but his gun wasn't loaded.  This is a classic case of suicide by cop.

http://journalstar.com/news/local/9...cle_a4fb2b55-8536-511b-a32a-d0cc1468727a.html


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jun 7, 2014)

Last autumn Annette stopped receiving disability living allowance  (DLA), which she had been paid for  around 10 years, after the benefit was  scrapped by the Government.

She then applied for personal independence payment (PIP), the replacement for DLA, in October – but the  cash never arrived before her death  six months later.

Mrs Sorotos said: “She never got  any of her PIP money. Up to the day  she died she never got it.

“What was she meant to live off in  the meantime?

“I had to keep telling her to get  down to the job centre to keep the  pressure on.

“It caused her a lot of stress. She  couldn’t afford to get the bus down to  come and see her son who was staying with me before she died.”

It is not known how Annette died.  Her family are still waiting for the  results of toxicology tests. A full inquest into the death will then be  carried out by a coroner.

Her body was found after a friend  went round to her flat on the morning  of May 22.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ool-mum-who-died-7232928#.U5NuEgCYXG8.twitter


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## Awesome Wells (Jun 8, 2014)

That's really awful


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2014)

Has any of the media at all come out and stated there is a systematic link between the welfare 'reforms' and the terrible amount of suicides, tragedies, etc?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jun 8, 2014)

Nope. they're leaving it to the ignored individual, groups and charities to try and be heard.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 8, 2014)

Iain Duncan Smith, orphaning children since 2010 

I feel physically sick.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 8, 2014)

treelover said:


> Has any of the media at all come out and stated there is a systematic link between the welfare 'reforms' and the terrible amount of suicides, tragedies, etc?


What's the point? All you will get is: 'hardworking families/fairness for the taxpayer/hard decisions for hard times/can't make an omelette without breaking eggs/labour spent all the money/labour created welfare dependency'.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jun 12, 2014)

Study finds significant increase in suicides since 2007.



> The investigators found a reversal in the decline in suicides in the European Union that coincided with the beginning of the economic crisis in 2007. By 2009, suicides had increased by 6.5 percent.
> 
> Meanwhile, suicides in Canada rose by 4.5 percent between 2007 and 2010. In the United States there was an increase of 4.8 percent during this time period, the study found.
> 
> According to the study authors, these figures are "conservative" estimates. They said that the actual number of suicides since the recession hit are likely much greater than expected.



http://healthyliving.msn.com/health...than-10000-suicides-in-north-america-europe-1

Is anyone surprised?


----------



## Greebo (Jun 12, 2014)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Study finds significant increase in suicides since 2007.
> 
> <snip>Is anyone surprised?


I said this would happen, and wish I'd been wrong.


----------



## panpete (Jun 12, 2014)

No, and I would go so far to say that they are getting rid of the poor and vulnerable by stealth. Leaving them starving/freezing or driving them to suicide.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 4, 2014)

Graham Shawcross, 63, had Addison’s disease which left him exhausted - Yvonne said the stress of being told he was fit to work led to his heart attack.

A widow was horrified when a letter arrived for her late husband saying he had won his appeal against his sickness benefits being axed.

Graham Shawcross, 63, had potentially fatal Addison’s disease, but was ruled fit to work last November and had his £400-a-month incapacity benefit halted.

He died of a heart attack in February this year.

Yvonne, his wife of 23 years, claims the stress of losing his benefits, and of launching an appeal against the decision, caused his death.

She told Department of Work and Pensions bosses Graham had died, but they still invited him to attend an appeal hearing - and wrote again a few days later to say he was eligible for Employment and Support Allowance for at least the next 24 months.

Yvonne of Radcliffe, Manchester, said: “Graham would surely be alive today if it was not for the stress.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/stunned-widow-told-benefits-taken-3805868#ixzz36REzgUws


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 5, 2014)

Has anyone tried claiming compensation against Atos/DWP over this?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 5, 2014)

No precedent as far as I'm aware. No legal aid either.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2014)

Frankie Jack said:


> No precedent as far as I'm aware. No legal aid either.



There's also the whole issue of so-called "Crown Immunity" that can be pulled out of the hat.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 6, 2014)

A flower for every person that died within six weeks of ATOS finding them fit  for work.


----------



## Betsy (Jul 12, 2014)

_Iain Duncan Smith to be hauled out of Work and Pensions position after Bedroom Tax blunder 

*"David Cameron plans to haul Iain Duncan Smith out of his job in charge of Work and Pensions, reports the Sunday People.
*
It would allow the hated Bedroom Tax to be axed and get Universal Credit back on track after the mess IDS has made of it.

The PM wanted to move the Work and Pensions Secretary two years ago but was thwarted when the former Tory leader threatened to quit the Cabinet."
*
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/iain-duncan-smith-hauled-out-3848022#ixzz37I2oqkfM http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=dndq0sFGyr34avadbi-bnq&u=DailyMirror
*_

http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=dndq0sFGyr34avadbi-bnq&u=DailyMirror


----------



## Greebo (Jul 13, 2014)

Betsy said:


> _Iain Duncan Smith to be hauled out of Work and Pensions position after Bedroom Tax blunder_ <snip>
> 
> _The PM wanted to move the Work and Pensions Secretary two years ago but was thwarted when the former Tory leader threatened to quit the Cabinet._<snip>


Okay, why is Cameron so scared of somebody as incompetent as IDS leaving the Cabinet?


----------



## BigTom (Jul 13, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Okay, why is Cameron so scared of somebody as incompetent as IDS leaving the Cabinet?



IDS is popular with the hard right of the party, as is Gove. Cameron is not, not sure about Boris. Camreon needs IDS to keep in with that section of the party anyway, so doesn't want him outside the cabinet.


----------



## Betsy (Jul 13, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Okay, why is Cameron so scared of somebody as incompetent as IDS leaving the Cabinet?


See Big Tom's answer. 
Thanks Big Tom!


----------



## treelover (Jul 13, 2014)

Hi, can we just use this thread for the victims of the benefit cuts/reforms, I'm aware families have read this thread.

and that includes me.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 13, 2014)

BigTom said:


> IDS is popular with the hard right of the party, as is Gove. Cameron is not, not sure about Boris. Camreon needs IDS to keep in with that section of the party anyway, so doesn't want him outside the cabinet.


I don't think it's even just the hard right.

IDS sells very well to the blue rinse tendency, too, who don't necessarily conform to the "hard right" stereotype, but tend to display quite a lot of the same kind of black-and-white thinking.

And the blue rinse tendency are the Tories' core vote, even more than the swivel-eyed loons on the Right are.

ETA: oops, sorry, treelover


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 23, 2014)

http://www.theadvertisergroup.co.uk...ed-after-benefits-sanction-20140722174205.htm


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 28, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> http://www.theadvertisergroup.co.uk...ed-after-benefits-sanction-20140722174205.htm



Front page story in the daily mirror today






story here.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 30, 2014)

David Clapson's family (the man featured in the story above) have launched a petition calling for an inquiry into benefit sanctions, think this is worth punting out, its picking up a lot of signatures and might help keep this story running: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...into-benefit-sanctions-that-killed-my-brother


----------



## treelover (Aug 4, 2014)

> *'No one should die penniless and alone': the victims of Britain's harsh welfare sanctions*
> David Clapson was found dead last year after his benefits were stopped on the grounds that he wasn't taking the search for work seriously. He had an empty stomach, and just £3.44 to his name. Now thousands of other claimants are being left in similarly dire straits by tough new welfare sanctions
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/03/victims-britains-harsh-welfare-sanctions



Moving tribute in the Guardian


----------



## treelover (Aug 7, 2014)

> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-overdosed-cry-help-after-4016880#.U-Nwb2cg_6
> 
> Annette Francis took her own life while being potentially owed hundreds of pounds in welfare payments when she died
> 
> ...


----------



## Coolfonz (Aug 19, 2014)

MrSki said:


> A flower for every person that died within six weeks of ATOS finding them fit  for work.


Fucking disgusting. A fucking cull. How many people is it in numbers? Anyone know?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 21, 2014)

Lee Marlow reports.

It’s hard to know exactly where to start with the tragic story of Chris Smith, a plumber from Leicester who died last month. You could begin with the disease which claimed his life. Chris had cancer; lung cancer, skin cancer and a cancer that spread to his spine. He was diagnosed in April. Although Chris refused to believe it, he was dying.

As he was dying, Chris, 59, and his partner, Maggie, were embroiled in an unnecessary row with the Work and Pensions department.

Chris, a qualified plumber, had been ill. A poorly knee had kept him off work and then he began to feel sick.

He was called in for health tests. Government assessors told him he wasn’t ill enough. They deemed him fit for work. His benefits were stopped. Chris didn’t think it was right, but he didn’t complain, either. He started to look for work.

Chris didn’t know it, but he already had cancer. He was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer a few weeks later.

And, by rights, this is where the story should end. A man with terminal lung cancer should not be ordered to find work. He shouldn’t have his benefits stopped. This is what the Welfare State was created for, the safety net which cares for the sick and the poorly.

Chris Smith slipped through this safety net.

His partner, Maggie Black, told the job centre about Chris’s cancer. They nodded and made all the right noises. They agreed Chris was not fit for work.

But nothing changed. His benefits were not reinstated.

And then came the texts. One a week usually, sometimes more, imploring Chris to get on his bike to find work, to apply for this plumbing job or that one.

Chris, meanwhile, was in hospital, having chemotherapy, whiling away his days vomiting as the cancer ate away at him, from his lungs to his skin and into his spine.

And then, after the texts, there was the letter. The letter from the job centre informing Chris he needed to report to the benefits office for a special meeting to step up his efforts to find work.

The letter arrived the day after Chris died. It was opened by his grieving partner.

“I stood by the front door and read it and had to reread it, again and again,” says Maggie. “I couldn’t believe it. How could they be so insensitive? How could they get something like this so wrong?”

No-one from the job centre, no-one from the Department of Work and Pensions, apologised. Instead, they carried on texting Chris job vacancies.

Another letter, inviting him to apply for more jobs, landed on their doormat this week, along with letters from the council informing Maggie her housing benefits had been stopped. “This is what happens,” she said. “One thing goes wrong and it’s like a domino effect – everything else tumbles, too.”

Maggie didn’t know where to turn. Now, the Citizen’s Advice Bureau and her MP are helping out.

Leicester West MP Liz Kendall says she is “appalled” by the case and has promised the family she will send “a strongly-worded letter” to Secretary of State Iain-Duncan Smith.

The real tragedy here, though, is that what happened to Chris and Maggie is not an isolated incident.

“I see it a lot,” said Margot Wood, the Macmillan welfare benefits case worker supervisor at Leicester’s CAB office.

“We investigate many complaints from people about Employment Support Allowance and the way it is administered.

“The Government is supposedly streamlining the benefits system, stripping away the bureaucracy and making it easier for both claimants and administrators.”

They haven’t, says Mrs Wood. “It’s a complicated, cumbersome system – and quite often, as you can see in this case, one part of the system doesn’t know what the other part is doing. And that leads to the kind of error we’ve seen here. It should never happen.”

It didn’t just happen to Chris and Maggie. It happened to Sarah, too.

Sarah is a single mum from Leicester. She lives in a safe house after she fled a violent relationship. We’ve agreed not to reveal her real identity.

A mother of a three-year-old child, Sarah recently gave birth to another daughter. Tragically, her baby died a few days later.

A grief-stricken Sarah received a letter, telling her to report for a meeting to help her find a job. The meeting was two days before her daughter’s funeral.

Still, she made it. She showed up. She sat in their office and answered their questions.

And then they wrote to her and said, because she managed to make it for the meeting, she was fit for work. Her Employment Support Allowance was cancelled.

Advisers at the CAB say it was a “cruel and heartless” decision and are helping Sarah to appeal against it.

So why is this happening?

You have to go back, back to October 2008, when Employment Support Allowance was introduced by Gordon Brown’s Labour Government.

The benefit replaced Incapacity Benefit and Income Support and was paid to disabled or long-term ill people who cannot work.

Initially, the benefit was paid only to new claimants. Under the coalition Government, a huge programme began to migrate existing claimants to the new system. It has led to many complaints, according to Leicester CAB’s Margot. “It takes up a lot of our time.

“The set up is very complicated, with various departments involved and a lot of bureaucracy.”

Read more here... 


http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Fit-work/story-22782662-detail/story.html


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 22, 2014)

You can write all the strongly worded letters to that cunt IDS. He won't read a single one of them.

If you're lucky one of his SPADS will send an automated 'we are sorry' letter. They wont' care, they aren't paid to.

If you have ever read any of the letters that come from the desk of this inhuman spoiled cunt you will see what I mean. I recall a case from one of his constituents who was being forced to move back to Amsterdam or something. He wasn't interested.

Noone in this sickness of a government gives a shit. Esther McVey will argue that people like this are being helpedand blame labour. The Conservative Home bloggers will say the same. Guido Fawkes will say the same. The right wing gutter press hacks like the scum at the Telegraph will say the same. 

The only answer to this is to boot these cunts out next year. Either that or mobilise the people to initiate a mass walkout and strike , wildcat or not, until it changes. That's not likely to happen.

I don't know how much more of these stories I can take. It's pure divide and rule: these cases are being kept quiet and thus, if and when they do surface, they are seen as - at best - anomalous, tragic cases of human error. But they are isolated incidents - tjhat's the message that is being sent. Not the truth, that these are far from isolated and that this is now standard operating procedure at the Department of Inhuman Scum.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 22, 2014)

and the second story, about the bereaved mother beggars belief.


----------



## Quartz (Aug 26, 2014)

Here's an appeal for an inquiry into why benefit sanctions were applied which resulted in a death.



> My brother, David Clapson, a diabetic ex-soldier, died starving and destitute because he was penalised by the Job Centre for missing a meeting.
> 
> David had his £71.70 weekly allowance stopped meaning that he couldn’t afford food or electricity. He was penniless, starving and alone. His electricity card was out of credit meaning the fridge where he should have kept his diabetes insulin chilled was not working. Three weeks after his benefits were stopped he died from diabetic ketoacidosis – caused by not taking his insulin.


----------



## Quartz (Sep 4, 2014)

Quartz said:


> Here's an appeal for an inquiry into why benefit sanctions were applied which resulted in a death.



An update: 190K people have signed the petition.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 6, 2014)

http://unemployedtynewear.wordpress...nged-himself-after-his-benefits-were-stopped/

another innocent life, taken by Cunt Duncan Smith.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Sep 7, 2014)

Was just about to post an article from another paper about that poor man.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 23, 2014)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-brain-damage-uncontrolled-epilepsy-4305508


----------



## MrSki (Oct 5, 2014)




----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 5, 2014)

"had worked all his life"

This shouldn't be relevant


----------



## smokedout (Oct 6, 2014)

Week of Action Against Workfare this week, today challenging the TUC over their support for workfare: http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=3782

Other stuff this week: http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=3736


----------



## treelover (Nov 11, 2014)

> http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/2014/10/21/uk-welfare-reform-deaths-updated-list-october-21st-2014/



New and updated list of the tragedies as a consequence of the 'reforms'

RIP


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 17, 2014)

*‘Damning revelation’: Cuts to disability benefits ‘killed 60’ in 3 years – report*




> It has emerged that the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has carried out 60 reviews into deaths linked to benefit cuts in the past three years. Shocking cases reveal a spike in suicides and health deterioration resulting from cuts.
> 
> The information, released by the Disability News Service (DNS), was obtained through Freedom of Information requests. The data showed there have been 60 investigations into the deaths of benefit claimants since February 2012.
> 
> ...


----------



## treelover (Nov 21, 2014)

> We hear in the last week of the tragic case in Yorkshire where a double amputee committed suicide just 48 hours after hearing that funding for his care was to be cut by two thirds."



Posted on CIF, can't find any source yet, I think the cuts in care are now savage and will lead to more tragedies.


----------



## BigTom (Nov 21, 2014)

treelover said:


> Posted on CIF, can't find any source yet, I think the cuts in care are now savage and will lead to more tragedies.



Will be this from Bradford I think:
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co....after_benefits_slashed__say_anguished_family/


----------



## treelover (Nov 22, 2014)

I think so, its a hidden issue


----------



## RubyBlue (Nov 27, 2014)

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sick-nurse-jacqueline-harris-killed-2851486

Jacqueline Harris - fucking awfully sad - poor woman


----------



## laptop (Dec 14, 2014)

> *DWP urged to publish inquiries on benefit claimant suicides*
> Department has carried out 60 internal reviews following deaths, and campaigners say those cases likely to be tip of the iceberg
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/14/dwp-inquiries-benefit-claimant-suicides


----------



## Ceej (Dec 30, 2014)

We will remember them....

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/...rom-photos-of-people-who-died-for-being-poor/


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2014)

Ceej said:


> We will remember them....
> 
> http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/...rom-photos-of-people-who-died-for-being-poor/



Now, if only some benevolent person would fund a 25ft high version of it somewhere that hundreds of thousands of people would see it.


----------



## treelover (Dec 30, 2014)

?


----------



## treelover (Jan 2, 2015)

Moving tributes to those not with us anymore,

only 500 views, why?


----------



## Greebo (Jan 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> <snip> only 500 views, why?


People on low incomes might have very low data allowances - if you were them, would you view that clip and risk doing without a large chunk of what you need for normal social contact?


----------



## treelover (Jan 2, 2015)

yes, but plenty of other people perhaps should be interested enough

update, apparently, earlier versions were blocked,, ostensibily on copyright grounds, using Adagio For Strings.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 2, 2015)

I've no interest in watching a tribute video, I bet lets of other people don't either. The numbers don't mean anything. I can definitely imagine someone at dwp putting in copyright claims on a video to get it taken down though.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> yes, but plenty of other people perhaps should be interested enough <snip>


Why?  I'm fully aware of what's happening without needing to see a bandwidth heavy clip.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 2, 2015)

Anyway this isn't about what I or anyone else watch online, can we keep that for another thread please?


----------



## treelover (Jan 2, 2015)

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/...rom-photos-of-people-who-died-for-being-poor/







http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/...rom-photos-of-people-who-died-for-being-poor/


made up of images of the people who have lost their lives, very moving.


----------



## Part 2 (Feb 4, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...urge-newham-council-london-government-welfare


----------



## treelover (Feb 6, 2015)

> Sanctions!
> 
> Esther McVey, the Employment Minister, was handed an image of David Clapson – the man found dead in his flat from diabetic ketoacidosis, two weeks after his benefits were suspended – following a select committee inquiry into benefits sanctions this afternoon.
> 
> ...



just been fwed this, no source.


----------



## treelover (Feb 10, 2015)

> How many benefits claimants have to kill themselves before something is done? Frances Ryan
> 
> Malcolm Burge is just one of at least 49 deaths that appear to be connected to the benefits system. But the government’s response has been truly shocking
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/10/benefits-sanctions-malcolm-burge-suicides



Guardian Cif article on the tragedies, getting more profile of a issue thank goodness.


----------



## treelover (Mar 3, 2015)

> http://www.welfareweekly.com/vulnerable-pensioner-set-fire-benefits-cut/
> 
> *A vulnerable pensioner set himself alight after his benefits were slashed, a coroner has heard.*
> 
> ...




really really sad, and the medias lack of reporting is shameful, when people do that abroad it is front page news.

I will ring RT now, I swear this will not go unnoticed..

rang BBC, anyone have a direct contact for RT, in other circumstances this would be a global story, and yes one has to take the persons family into consideration.


----------



## panpete (Mar 5, 2015)

Another life taken due to benefit worry
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/n...attle-to-receive-disability-benefit-1-6615017
How many more?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 7, 2015)

A FATHER-of-three from Nelson took his own life after his benefits were stopped and he was threatened with eviction from his home, an inquest heard.

The body of Benjamin Del McDonald, of Vaughan Street, was found off Gib Hill Road, where he played as a child, last November.

His sister, Mickayla Carr, told Burnley Coroner’s Court Mr McDonald was “a happy-go-lucky person” who “doted” on his five-year-old daughter.

Mr McDonald, 34, suffered from depression and was reported missing by his ex-partner, Joanne Almond, on November 19 before being discovered near Marsden Park Golf Club that afternoon.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...d_and_he_was_threatened_with_eviction/?ref=mr


----------



## treelover (Mar 9, 2015)

> *Government opts again for secrecy on benefit deaths*
> 
> The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has refused to publish secret reviews that should reveal whether the government’s welfare reforms were to blame for any of the deaths of 49 benefit claimants.
> 
> ...


----------



## treelover (Mar 9, 2015)

Quartz said:


> An update: 190K people have signed the petition.




Final total for that petition was 211,000, quite significant.


----------



## panpete (Mar 10, 2015)

Another suicide due to sanctions, Dad of three takes his own life in Lancs
http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...d_he_was_threatened_with_eviction/?ref=twtrec


----------



## yield (Mar 13, 2015)

Benefits removal fear 'was trigger for woman's suicide'
Channel 4 News. 13/03/15


> Julia Kelly was in constant pain. After two car accidents and innumerable medical procedures, she was trying to come to terms with the prospect that her spinal condition would be with her for the rest of her life. She founded a charity, Away with Pain, to help others also living with chronic pain.
> 
> But in November 2014 the 39-year-old took her own life. Last week a coroner found that "upset caused by the potential withdrawal of her benefits had been the trigger for her to end her life".


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 19, 2015)

> A DISTRAUGHT Burntwood mother who informed Lichfield Job Centre Plus that her son was in intensive care and too ill to attend an interview has told the Mercury how she received another letter from them after his death, calling him for an interview on the day of his funeral.
> 
> Gregory Sproston, who suffered from the rare condition Idiopathic Pulmonary Arterial Hypertension, died on February 8.
> 
> ...




http://www.lichfieldmercury.co.uk/G.../story.html#Se1ikEIG40GiFcJu.01#ixzz3UqHpBK6i


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2015)

> Updated tragic list of welfare-related deaths of UK’s sick and/or disabled people. This is the tip on the iceberg:
> 
> They shall be remembered forevermore.
> 
> ...



Summary(first part) of those who have died, (very long) we shall remember them.

posted elsewhere.


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2015)

> Chris MaGuire, 61. Deeply depressed and incapable of work, Chris was summonsed by Atos for a Work Capability Assessment and deemed fit for work. On appeal, a judge overturned the Atos decision and ordered them to leave him alone for at least a year, which they did not do. In desperation, Chris took his own life, unable to cope anymore.
> 
> Peter Duut, a Dutch national with terminal cancer living in the UK for many years found that he was not entitled to benefits unless he was active in the labour market. Peter died leaving his wife destitute, and unable to pay for his funeral.
> 
> ...



Second part


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 27, 2015)

treelover said:


> Second part


I know ot ain't much, but i cut and paste that as a FB status with"merely a sample " as prefix. People are sharing. I think it would be befitting for others to do likewise


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2015)

Sorry, I didn't know how to do that and wasn't sure the originator would want his/her details known, hope that's ok.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 27, 2015)

I see no indicator of the originator.

Surely it s public domain info and collated for a reason?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 27, 2015)

Oh Saor Alba? A pen name? I left it out.


----------



## spring-peeper (Jun 11, 2015)

i'm not eligible for benefits.  we don't have enough to live on.  i can understand why people kill themselves.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jun 11, 2015)

spring-peeper said:


> i'm not eligible for benefits.  we don't have enough to live on.  i can understand why people kill themselves.



((((spring-peeper))))


----------



## getsleep (Jun 11, 2015)

Hmm, there might be a lot of reasons why somebody kills him- or herself, but there shouldn't be - and there are a lot of things shoulnt be that way.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 9, 2015)

> A talented musician battling mental health problems took his own life after he was ruled fit to work.
> 
> Aaron Lane, who won a place at the prestigious Royal Academy of Music in London in his 20s, suffered psychosis and had been receiving Disability Living Allowance.
> 
> ...



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/aaron-lane-talented-musician-mental-6031644?ICID=FB_mirror_main


----------



## treelover (Jul 9, 2015)

Another casualty of the 'centre' politics we now appear to have.


----------



## Bakunin (Jul 18, 2015)




----------



## toggle (Jul 18, 2015)

Bakunin said:


> *



oh, i think there are quite a few people with plans


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 4, 2015)

https://thepoorsideoflife.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/carers-now-being-targeted-by-the-dwp/


----------



## Libertad (Aug 5, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> https://thepoorsideoflife.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/carers-now-being-targeted-by-the-dwp/



That's harassment, that DWP staff should swing for that.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 5, 2015)

Libertad said:


> That's harassment, that DWP staff should swing for that.



The blog is full of stuff like that. It's based on the writers experience of doing a demo every week outside the first job centre in the country to run Universal Clusterfuck.

She also has this column, and is a general green party hack.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/tb472df-charlotte-hughes


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 19, 2015)

Meanwhile - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33974674



> The Department for Work and Pensions has admitted using made-up stories from fictional claimants to demonstrate the positive impact of benefit sanctions.
> 
> A DWP leaflet featured one welfare claimant, "Sarah", who said she was "really pleased" a cut to her benefits had encouraged her to improve her CV.
> 
> But after a Freedom of Information request by website Welfare Weekly, the DWP said they were not real claimants.



No shit.


----------



## Quartz (Aug 27, 2015)

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/...le-claiming-incapacity-benefits-nears-100000/



> The Department for Work and Pensions has admitted defeat in its attempt to hide the number of people who have died while claiming incapacity benefits since November 2011 – and has announced that the number who died between January that year and February 2014 is a shocking *91,740*.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 27, 2015)

Quartz said:


> http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/...le-claiming-incapacity-benefits-nears-100000/


 
Jesus fuck.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 27, 2015)

Libertad said:


> Jesus fuck.



Now we just need to calculate the "normal" death rate for the same demographic spread, and see where the lumps and bumps are.
*Then* we can start making informed guesses about how deaths can be attributed.


----------



## treelover (Aug 27, 2015)

Best if we do this on the other thread and leave this for the RIP.


----------



## yield (Sep 21, 2015)

Depressed man killed himself as a direct result of DWP's ‘fit to work’ ruling, coroner finds
Sunday 20 September 2015


> A coroner has concluded for the first time that a man with severe mental illness killed himself as a direct result of being found “fit to work” by the Government’s outsourced disability assessors.
> 
> Michael O’Sullivan, a 60-year-old father from north London, hanged himself after his disability benefits were removed despite the opinion of three doctors that he was suffering from recurrent depression and certified as unable to work by his GP.
> 
> Figures released last month by the Department for Work and Pensions showed that nearly 90 people died every month between 2011 and 2014 after they had been declared fit for employment after undergoing a work capability assessment (WCA).


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 24, 2015)

Hi. A few months back, I'm sure on Urban (maybe even on this thread, but I have had a quick scan and cant see it) there was a one stop list of suicides, with a paragraph each and a substantiating link.

Anyone know where I might find it? I want to print it off to hand out to those attending Tory conference. Ta.


----------



## chainsawjob (Sep 24, 2015)

Was it calumslist.org? Sorry can't do link.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 24, 2015)

chainsawjob said:


> Was it calumslist.org? Sorry can't do link.




will try. Thanks.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 24, 2015)

chainsawjob said:


> Was it calumslist.org? Sorry can't do link.



Looking good. thanks alot.


----------



## Théoden (Oct 1, 2015)

I'm very saddened by this thread.  The austerity narrative is being used to punish those in need of help.

I know a lot of people who are struggling.  Thankfully no-one who has harmed themselves, yet.

The answer, in my opinion, is independent community organising and better MH services.  I hope the new Labour leadership can do something at the national level, too.  Time will tell.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 1, 2015)

Daughter of ‘fit for work’ suicide man takes human rights case to UN


----------



## tony.c (Oct 9, 2015)

Not a suicide, but this person was assessed fit for work and had benefits stopped until three weeks before he died:
*Brent & Kilburn Times*
Seriously ill Willesden man had his benefits stopped after he was deemed ‘fit for work’ weeks before he died


----------



## laptop (Oct 9, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Daughter of ‘fit for work’ suicide man takes human rights case to UN



Surely she'd have been better advised to go to the European Court of Human Rights?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 16, 2015)

Why should tories understand #WorkPenalty impact? £35pw doesnt stop hunger or bailiffs, it's barely a decent bottle of red.


----------



## treelover (Oct 22, 2015)

> * 'Fitness to work' assessments are brutal, says daughter of man who killed himself *
> Family of Michael O’Sullivan, who killed himself after losing his incapacity benefit, say Work Capability Assessment process is broken and unsafe
> 
> 'Fitness to work' assessments are brutal, says daughter of man who killed himself


----------



## teqniq (Oct 22, 2015)

David Cameron dismisses UN inquiry into DWP's treatment of disabled people


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 22, 2015)

teqniq said:


> David Cameron dismisses UN inquiry into DWP's treatment of disabled people



Of course he's going to dismiss it - it's independent, non-partisan and almost impossible to nobble, so he has to pretend instead that it has no validity.


----------



## superfly101 (Oct 30, 2015)

Although somebody here might get pissy 

*CPAG Safeguarding guidance: a tool for practitioners*


Safeguarding guidance: a tool for practitioners | Child Poverty Action Group


The welfare rights guidance for safe guarding vulnerable people by the DWP for the DWP!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 18, 2015)

Cant find the best thread for this, but needs sharing

Should Counsellors Work With Workfare? - a genuinely superb article from the standpoint of therapists.

The government seeks to abuse therapy as practice for political purposes.

Therapy Today - The Online Magazine for Counsellors and Psychotherapists


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 19, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Cant find the best thread for this, but needs sharing
> 
> Should Counsellors Work With Workfare? - a genuinely superb article from the standpoint of therapists.
> 
> ...



We've already had direct experience of similar being attempted here in Lambeth, with the plan to house a counselling service in the same building as a JobCentrePlus, with JC+ making direct referrals.


----------



## laptop (Nov 19, 2015)

UK government efforts to reduce the number of people claiming disability benefit appear to have driven 590 people in England to suicide and to have put 725,000 more on antidepressants.

_New Scientist_


----------



## tony.c (Nov 24, 2015)

The mentally ill woman who died terrified she'd be forced to find a job


----------



## KJW67 (Dec 23, 2015)

All to do with making the present system of social security useless with a view to forcing everyone, as both Cameron and IDS have publicly suggested, to take out private insurance against unemployment, ill-health etc. One suspects the main movers behind this idea are Unum, the giant American insurance company with the long and established history, as UnumProvident and others, of criminality in the field of disability and payout denial who have been working as 'consultants' on 'welfare reform' in this country since the early 90s, as Private Eye has well documented. Wrecking social security in the UK opens up a multi-billion pound insurance market. No doubt those helping to bring this about would be well-rewarded. I recommend interested parties try Googling for Unum scandal; there's page after page after page of, for the uninitiated, eye-opening, jaw-dropping material just sitting there in plain view.


----------



## KJW67 (Dec 23, 2015)

It should be remembered claimants aren't being sanctioned for transgressions, they're being sanctioned for alleged transgressions, which means they're being sanctioned on the whim of anonymous backroom target-driven clerks. There is no presumption of innocence. What happened to innocent until proven guilty, you might ask. To which the answer is:  Iain Duncan Smith.


----------



## KJW67 (Dec 23, 2015)

Simple answer to all of this of course is a Basic Income enshrined in human rights legislation and cannot be removed to create "work incentives". A properly designed basic income is itself a powerful incentive to work. We do not need sanctions. They are inhumane, and they don't work anyway. We can, and should, do far better by people than this. 

In the 19th century it took the work of Dickens and a sustained campaign by The Times, and some high profile scandals, to expose the horror of the workhouses and bring about major social reforms. But this government is not listening even to a Parliamentary committee. What will it take to expose the horror of the 21st century benefits sanctions regime and bring about the social reforms that are now so desperately needed?


----------



## treelover (Jan 3, 2016)

> The British are plaged by a down right evil government that cares not a jot for the majority of the people. *Two children and their mother died last week in a street not 2 minutes away from mine. The poor mother had her benefit's stoped in August because she failed to attend a interrogation at the local job centre,  she was in hospital at the time because of a vicious assult. They found the bodies in a state of malnutrition and the home with no gas or electric. *This is the reality of life for many in conservative Britain, its truly shocking that this can happen and go unreported by our media.



Britain's biggest food bank charity has hit out at the DWP


Posted on the Independent article about food banks, anyoone know anything about this, horrendous if true.


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

treelover said:


> Britain's biggest food bank charity has hit out at the DWP
> 
> 
> Posted on the Independent article about food banks, anyoone know anything about this, horrendous if true.



This search reveals a distressing number of candidate cases. None of the dozen I've looked at report benefits issues... but who would know from a basic police report?


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

There is a research project looking at coroners' findings - isn't there? That should give a better picture. But 2-3 years or more after the fact


----------



## treelover (Jan 3, 2016)

> I've just finished comforting a friend whole girlfriend has committed suicide after getting a letter from the DWP announcing they miscalculated her tax and demanding immediate repayment of a substantial amount of money. Last nail in some peoples coffins - literally.



this is posted on JC for PM FB page, if its correct and the others are, it is getting like the 30's in Germany where people were being killed and rumours were spreading about their demise.It can't be hushed up much more can it?

no apology for the comparison, lives are being lost.


----------



## laptop (Jan 7, 2016)

> * DWP told woman she was not ill enough for benefit on day she died *
> Dawn Amos was sent letter about attendance allowance on day her husband agreed to switch off her life support machine


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 7, 2016)

Just seen this article myself


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2016)

Luke Loy:
Luke Loy had a life, until his benefits started falling away | Frances Ryan


----------



## treelover (Jan 22, 2016)

What will it take for these deaths, running into many hundreds, maybe more, to get the same coverage, outrage, and action as we have seen from a large part of of the public on the refugee issue?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 22, 2016)

treelover said:


> What will it take for these deaths, running into many hundreds, maybe more, to get the same coverage, outrage, and action as we have seen from a large part of of the public on the refugee issue?



Media nowadays is about BIG stories and sensationalism, not about dozens/hundreds of small stories that'd actually require some work to create a story around. That's why most of the little that does get printed, is by investigative journos, not by political reporters or commentators.
Compared to that, it's easy to just mix and match wire reports about refugees.


----------



## treelover (Jan 22, 2016)

Thanks for that measured reply.


----------



## treelover (Jan 22, 2016)

Moving, but Natalie seems to be on her own, how can this be? there are groups like Citizens United who could be there.


----------



## teqniq (Jan 22, 2016)

Woman who wrote a plea about the bedroom tax to David Cameron found hanged at home


----------



## treelover (Jan 23, 2016)




----------



## treelover (Jan 23, 2016)

> This is my mum. I'm still in shock and miss her so much. We are after answers but no doubt we won't get any. Nothing can make up for the pain of watching her die.



her daughters words.


----------



## treelover (Jan 23, 2016)




----------



## teqniq (Feb 16, 2016)

No shit Sherlock

Government cuts to social services might be biggest cause to increase in deaths


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (May 3, 2016)

treelover said:


>



Ever notice that when government wants to cover their ass, they always cite privacy concerns?


----------



## Fisher05 (May 24, 2016)

Today, I think this is the biggest misery of so called democratically elected govts. They love to invest hugely in their lavish spending on favourite projects and on their own-self. While poor(civil) masses who can't revolt easily are getting suppressed to pay for their ruler's greed. These people just keep sucking the blood of innocents till it lasts.


----------



## Smoking kills (Jun 19, 2016)

David Knight,. 29, St. Austell.


----------



## Smoking kills (Jul 2, 2016)

Christopher Sever, Hull.


----------



## treelover (Jul 30, 2016)

> *Grieving dad says Iain Duncan Smith should face police probe after son killed himself over fear of losing benefits *
> 
> *David Barr threw himself from a bridge after being ruled fit to work despite suffering from severe mental illness *
> 
> Grieving dad says IDS should face police probe after son killed himself



RIP: When will people take more cogniscance of what is happening


----------



## Draygo (Aug 13, 2016)

I always wonder when I read through the kind of horrific stories we see in this thread what effect they would have on the 'average' Tory voter, not the ideologue leaders but those who let it happen. Many of course will have no idea at all about it, would be truly appalled if they knew, might change their minds about their vote if they knew.  Others, sadly a greater number I fear,  have a vague knowledge of it, somewhere in the back of their minds alongside the knowledge about a bomb somewhere in Istanbul, but seek to keep it in that place,  out of emotional reach, drifting into the forgotten ether. Some may veer on the 'these people had it coming anyway' side, others more on the 'yes well I'm sure there's the odd tragic mistake but things were too lax before and I'm sure they're doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen again.' I'd like them all to be forced to watch the funerals of a few of these people, Clockwork Orange style, and see what happens then.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 13, 2016)

Draygo said:


> I always wonder when I read through the kind of horrific stories we see in this thread what effect they would have on the 'average' Tory voter, not the ideologue leaders but those who let it happen. Many of course will have no idea at all about it, would be truly appalled if they knew, might change their minds about their vote if they knew.  Others, sadly a greater number I fear,  have a vague knowledge of it, somewhere in the back of their minds alongside the knowledge about a bomb somewhere in Istanbul, but seek to keep it in that place,  out of emotional reach, drifting into the forgotten ether. Some may veer on the 'these people had it coming anyway' side, others more on the 'yes well I'm sure there's the odd tragic mistake but things were too lax before and I'm sure they're doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen again.' I'd like them all to be forced to watch the funerals of a few of these people, Clockwork Orange style, and see what happens then.




Tories arent ignorant of what theyve done. They dont give a fuck. It's war.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 16, 2016)

hows your claim for PIP and ESA going?  sounds like yer in the thick of it from what you're saying.


----------



## treelover (Dec 7, 2016)

> Teen 'belittled' by Jobcentre staff took his own life while seeking work as a welder
> 
> 
> *A TEENAGE football fan took his own life after being “belittled” by Jobcentre staff while desperately searching for a job, an inquest heard.*
> ...



Couldn't find non right wing link

young man of 18


----------



## treelover (Dec 7, 2016)

David in better times.

btw, its interesting that the right wing press are covering this, sensing change in public mood?


----------



## BigTom (Dec 7, 2016)

Daily Mirror articles:
Teen desperate for work took his life after being 'belittled' by Jobcentre staff
DWP asked to review case of 'belittled' jobseeker, 18, who took his own life


----------



## Ergo Proxy (Dec 15, 2016)

The Tories just slipped out 3 years of damning figures about disability cuts

*Thousands with progressive and mental illnesses lose their disability benefits in cruel Tory cut*

The figures, covering April 2013 to October 2016 and compiled by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), were slipped out without fanfare on the government's website today 

Mirror so the sentiment is right but the figures need checked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

treelover said:


> Couldn't find non right wing link
> 
> young man of 18


did you not try the mirror? Teen desperate for work took his life after being 'belittled' by Jobcentre staff


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 29, 2016)

And here's another one:

Seriously ill man dies after the DWP wrote to his GP telling them not to issue sick notes | EvolvePolitics.com 

Interesting DWP tactic of telling doctors not to issue sick notes. What can the DWP do if a doctor decides, in their professional opinion, to issue one anyway?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 30, 2016)

Bakunin said:


> And here's another one:
> 
> Seriously ill man dies after the DWP wrote to his GP telling them not to issue sick notes | EvolvePolitics.com
> 
> Interesting DWP tactic of telling doctors not to issue sick notes. What can the DWP do if a doctor decides, in their professional opinion, to issue one anyway?



Nothing, except the usual clusterfuck of calling the person to an assessment, which they're perfectly willing to do over and over again.


----------



## Ergo Proxy (Dec 31, 2016)

The GP letter thing has been an issue for some time. Unlike what you've alluded to the issue is with more with GPs than the DWP. Not having a go but until you have one in your hand you really can't comprehend just how bad/confusing DWP letters are.

Someone will correct me but:- The DWP treat the whole claim as a series of virtual procedural distinct phases. Whilst we all agree DWP letters are a bit vague/confusing...... what the letter says is We have decided that this person is fit for work....... therefore we have ended the assessment phase; which you have supported with fit notes. We can no longer accept fit notes for that phase (as it's closed) but if you still believe that your patient is not fit for work you can still support them and write fit notes for this new/next/current phase.

It's a bit like you're not eligible for Contribution based JSA letter which decided not to mention that they were still looking into your Income based JSA claim

There are good GPs there are bad GPs and as humans they make mistakes. You have to give them a bit of leeway - stress-full job  dealing with people who can be complete cunts when they don't get their way!

That 7-10 year education also means once you explain what the letter means i.e. educate them nobody else will have the same issue!


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 6, 2017)

Susan Bate

Written by her son,  Paul Bate,  on Atos Miracles Facebook
I, Susan Bate

Susan Bate was my mom, she was a single parent who worked while my Nan looked after me. Five years later my brother was born (his dad did a runner before the birth).
My brother was born with cerebral palsy and learning disabilities so Sue had to give up work to become his full time carer. This was in a time when being a single mother was frowned upon but she did her best to raise us and we never went without. She fulfilled the role of mother and father more than adequately doing the decorating, gardening, repairs and sweeping the chimney (we still had a coal fire at the time).

Later, my grandmother became ill and Sue had to become her full time carer, as well as looking after elderly neighbours who lived alone. On top of all this she took in numerous stray animals and helped to re-home many of them.

My grandmother eventually died and Sue never recovered from the bereavement and fell into severe depression. Her physical health also started to deteriorate from the effects of pushing my gran's wheelchair and lifting her in and out of it causing Sue to suffer osteoarthritis in her spine. She also suffered from crippling migraines and couldn't use monitors or be in artificial light for long without having an attack.

She became deaf in later life, this caused vertigo and she started to suffer with anxiety as a result of feeling vulnerable from not being able to adjust to deafness and also could no longer use the phone and struggled communicating with people she didn't know. 

Although she never smoked in her life she also developed asthma.

Things first started getting difficult with the introduction of the bedroom tax, as I'd left home years ago and my brother was in supported living Sue was left in a three bedroom house she didn't need but had to pay tax on two bedrooms. Sue was desperate to move out as she was struggling with both the stairs and the bedroom tax but the council only offered her flats in rough areas, she was found stairs a challenge so a flat was not an option. 

Then she had to go in for a fit for work assessment and was found fit for work even with her illnesses (no surprise as people with more severe illnesses have also been found fit for work).
All this started to affect Sue's health and the stress caused her to suffer high blood pressure.
Her doctor intervened and the job centre left her alone for a while, when she was sixty one the council gave her a bungalow so things got a bit better.

Just after her sixty third birthday she was called into the job centre for an interview and things got bad again.
She was interviewed by a young girl and spoke to like scum, she was told her illnesses would probably get better, she would have to learn to use the internet (Sue couldn't use monitors without a migraine attack) and start looking for work or have her benefits stopped, she was sixty three years old, 9 months off retirement and registered disabled.

She couldn't cope with all the worry and started to suffer from stress causing her blood pressure to rocket. Her increased blood pressure caused her to have a massive brain haemorrhage and she died four days later on the 14.12.2016 aged sixty three.

On the day of her death a letter was sent out from the health assessment advisory service calling her in for another assessment.

The bullying and Harassment from the DWP was too much for her to cope with and it was this stress that killed her, she was a victim of the policies of this vile Tory government.
None of it is about getting people into work but about cutting benefits and driving the sick and the vulnerable into early graves. My mother is just another victim of this state sanctioned euthanasia program. Anyone who works for these departments is responsible for the suffering and misery of thousands. People might say "they're just doing their job"  but the Nazis were also just doing their job, just one used gas chambers and the other uses bureaucracy.

R.I.P. Susan Bate 03.09.1953 -14.12.2016


----------



## Libertad (Jan 7, 2017)

R.I.P. Susan Bate. 

I have no words.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2017)

President Of The British Psyhocological Society on Benefit Sanctions and mental health.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 10, 2017)

Benefit claimants take to social media to describe DWP ‘hell’ and ‘abuse’


----------



## billbond (Jul 5, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> Susan Bate
> 
> Written by her son,  Paul Bate,  on Atos Miracles Facebook
> I, Susan Bate
> ...



R.I.P. Susan Bate 03.09.1953 -14.12.2016
No words , sorry to hear this i know just a few typed words but honestly brought a tear to my eye that.
I know its wrong to think this and obvs dont want it to happen but surprised there has never been a attack on the staff in these offices/Job centres etc
Obvs they are just following instructions, must be a horrible job to do.
Dont think i could do it tbh
Also stuck a chord with me as my eldest sister was the born the same day as your mum


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 27, 2017)

This whole thread is nothing short of utterly heartbreaking


----------



## BigTom (Sep 15, 2017)

Soldier traumatised by war died surrounded by letters from DWP



> A heartbroken mum claims her ex-soldier son was “expendable” and died without the support he needed.
> 
> Craig Scott was haunted by the faces of people he killed while on tour with the British Army in Afghanistan, an inquest heard.
> 
> Isolated and struggling to cope with life away from the forces, he died in his Thornaby bedroom surrounded by medication, empty cans of alcohol and benefit sanction letters from the DWP.



 RIP Craig Scott


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 3, 2017)

There would be more money available for the genuinely needy if people stopped claiming benefits when they could quite easily get by without them. And Labour supporters are the main culprits, in my opinion.


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 3, 2017)

0/10 please troll harder.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 3, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> There would be more money available for the genuinely needy if people stopped claiming benefits when they could quite easily get by without them. And Labour supporters are the main culprits, in my opinion.


Far more benefits go unclaimed that are lost to fraud and error.

Anyway, there are discussion threads for this topic; this isn't one.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 3, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> There would be more money available for the genuinely needy if people stopped claiming benefits when they could quite easily get by without them. And Labour supporters are the main culprits, in my opinion.



Fuck off cunt.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 3, 2017)

existentialist said:


> Far more benefits go unclaimed that are lost to fraud and error.



How do you know? The total amount of money that is lost to fraud is completely unknown. All we know is how much has been found to be fraudulent.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 3, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> How do you know? The total amount of money that is lost to fraud is completely unknown. All we know is how much has been found to be fraudulent.





existentialist said:


> Anyway, there are discussion threads for this topic; this isn't one.


If you want to have a debate about it, take it to a different thread. Not this one.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 3, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> The bullying and Harassment from the DWP was too much for her to cope with and it was this stress that killed her



Whilst I feel deeply sorry for your loss, you cannot blame the DWP. The people who work for the DWP are generally very sympathetic to those they come into contact with. I know a number of people who have found them to be both helpful and supportive.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 3, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Whilst I feel deeply sorry for your loss, you cannot blame the DWP. The people who work for the DWP are generally very sympathetic to those they come into contact with. I know a number of people who have found them to be both helpful and supportive.



You've been asked to take this elsewhere, please do so. Post reported.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 3, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Whilst I feel deeply sorry for your loss, you cannot blame the DWP. The people who work for the DWP are generally very sympathetic to those they come into contact with. I know a number of people who have found them to be both helpful and supportive.


This is not a discussion thread.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> There would be more money available for the genuinely needy if people stopped claiming benefits when they could quite easily get by without them. And Labour supporters are the main culprits, in my opinion.



Your opinion is worth nothing, as it's prejudice masquerading as opinion.  If you had even a small clue what you were talking about, you'd know that you're chatting shit.

Now fuck off back under your bridge, you worm-cocked twat.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2017)

existentialist said:


> Far more benefits go unclaimed that are lost to fraud and error.
> 
> Anyway, there are discussion threads for this topic; this isn't one.


 Including HB, £17 billion last year.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> How do you know? The total amount of money that is lost to fraud is completely unknown. All we know is how much has been found to be fraudulent.



Twat.  The total amount of money lost to fraud and error is well-known.

Unless you're implying that all claimants are suspect, which would make you an ignorant, know-nothing cunt of the first water.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 4, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> The total amount of money lost to fraud and error is well-known.



What a silly and ignorant claim to make. The DWP is uncovering previously unknown cases of fraud on a daily basis.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 4, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> What a silly and ignorant claim to make. The DWP is uncovering previously unknown cases of fraud on a daily basis.


Fuck. Off.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 4, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> What a silly and ignorant claim to make. The DWP is uncovering previously unknown cases of fraud on a daily basis.



Read the title of this thread ffs!

Why are you on this thread? Please take your inappropriate discussion about fraud to another thread. If you continue to post this shit on this thread you will prove yourself an absolute trolling cunt.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 4, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> What a silly and ignorant claim to make. The DWP is uncovering previously unknown cases of fraud on a daily basis.



And at the end of every year, those cases are quantified, added together, and represented as an annualised figure, you utter cretin.


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 5, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> And at the end of every year, those cases are quantified, added together, and represented as an annualised figure



You really don't get it, do you grasshopper?

Let me explain it as simply as I possibly can : Of course the discovered cases can be quantified. Those cases of fraud that have not been discovered cannot be quantified. We can only make a thumb suck guess as to how many cases go undiscovered.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 5, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> You really don't get it, do you grasshopper?
> 
> Let me explain it as simply as I possibly can : Of course the discovered cases can be quantified. Those cases of fraud that have not been discovered cannot be quantified. We can only make a thumb suck guess as to how many cases go undiscovered.



And you're basing your censure of benefits on your unquantified preconceptions of how much fraud *might* be going on.  You might as well base a case for your wife committing adultery on how many other people she *might* be banging behind your back, "grasshopper".


----------



## Happy Larry (Oct 6, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> And you're basing your censure of benefits on your unquantified preconceptions of how much fraud *might* be going on.



Er, no grasshopper. You are building a straw man very poorly. I have no preconception at all. I have repeatedly said that it cannot be quantified, other than by thumb suck.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 6, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> You really don't get it, do you grasshopper?
> 
> Let me explain it as simply as I possibly can : Of course the discovered cases can be quantified. Those cases of fraud that have not been discovered cannot be quantified. We can only make a thumb suck guess as to how many cases go undiscovered.





Happy Larry said:


> Er, no grasshopper. You are building a straw man very poorly. I have no preconception at all. I have repeatedly said that it cannot be quantified, other than by thumb suck.



Enough, please leave the thread for those who wish to use it for the purpose that it was created.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 6, 2017)

ViolentPanda, the village idiot is digging himself enough holes on the other thread - I suggest you'll find enough fish to shoot in that barrel...


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> Er, no grasshopper. You are building a straw man very poorly. I have no preconception at all. I have repeatedly said that it cannot be quantified, other than by thumb suck.


You're banned from this thread.


----------



## inva (Oct 6, 2017)

editor said:


> You're banned from this thread.


thanks editor


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 14, 2017)

I expect we all know this, still it's good detail for some of the willfully ignorant beyond this parish, if they cba.

I work for the DWP as a Universal Credit case manager – and what I've witnessed is shocking


----------



## Streathamite (Oct 16, 2017)

editor said:


> You're banned from this thread.


Good man


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2017)

Unbelievable:


----------



## Libertad (Oct 26, 2017)

Jesus fuck.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 26, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Unbelievable:




The companies running the assessments have been pulled up about this before, and had given assurances that it wouldn't happen again.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 27, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Unbelievable:



they are still doing this shit! oh ffs.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 27, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> The companies running the assessments have been pulled up about this before, and had given assurances that it wouldn't happen again.


They were never going to stop.

Even if we assume the most benign explanation - that people who are not trained to deal with suicidal people are liable, for all kinds of reasons, to say crass things - the system will not change: they're not going to train their people in supportive, enabling strategies to work with people in that condition, particularly since the entire approach is predicated on the idea that "you're not ill, you're just swinging the lead". They'd rather push them in front of their clients, ignorant and unskilled, because it doesn't really matter.

When you are assuming that everyone who comes through the door is trying it on, you're not exactly starting from the right place to help a suicidal client. Pretty much every credible suicide intervention strategy says "if someone says they're suicidal, assume that they are and deal with them accordingly". That flies in the face of this assessment process and the assumptions that underlie it. It doesn't mean "OMG,WTF, help. I've got a suicidal in front of me!"; it means exploring with sensitivity and care what that person is actually thinking. I know from extensive experience that when you do get the try-on merchants, they don't stick at it long when you're taking them seriously, but it takes an act of faith to do that. These twats aren't interested in that.

So they trigger the occasional suicide along the way? So what, they'd probably have done it anyway. And feh, it's only a cry for help/manipulative behaviour. They won't do it really.

They should be held to account for this. They won't be.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 28, 2017)

"if you're suicidal, why haven't you succeeded?"  Shockingly inhumane if true. Names should be named and consequences should be real. Just what kind of professional standards are in place to control these things.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2017)

Chilli.s said:


> "if you're suicidal, why haven't you succeeded?"  Shockingly inhumane if true. Names should be named and consequences should be real. Just what kind of professional standards are in place to control these things.



The only real comeback is reporting the individual assessor to their individual professional association, most of whom are supine on matters of discipline unless their member is killing people, or bringing the association into disrepute.


----------



## Favelado (Oct 30, 2017)

Happy Larry said:


> What a silly and ignorant claim to make. The DWP is uncovering previously unknown cases of fraud on a daily basis.



It is 1.2 billion a year. Happy now? Off you fuck.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Nov 8, 2017)

Elaine Morrall RIP - just saw this on facebook HEART-RENDING: Mum who died alone in the cold with her hat and scarf on

Her mum put this letter on social media, addressed to local councillors:
_My daughter lived in Boston ave. She died on the afternoon of 2 November 2017 at home on her own. She was 38yrs.

In the cold with her coat & scarf on. Because she wouldn't put her heating on until her kids came home from school. Why ?? Because she couldn't afford it.

Because she was severely depressed. Suffered from eating disorder & many other problems for many years._

_Mainly due to authoritarians of 1 form or another. I can give you details. Was in & out of hospital in recent months in intensive care._

_But was deemed not ill enough for esa. Had her benefits stopped numerous times, which in turn stopped her housing benefit._

_No income but expected to be able to pay full rent. Was told being in intensive care was not sufficient reason for failing to attend a universal credit interview._

_I went to the job centre to inform them them that she couldn't attend. But benefits stopped again._

_Uncaring housing taking her to court. She's due to go to court on monday. Is being dead now enough reason. Is that what's had to happen to prove she was ill??_

_How many people have got to die before this government realises they are killing vulnerable people??_

_What are you and your fellow councillors going to do to protect your constituents??_

_Linda Morrall_

_Broken hearted mother_


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 8, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> Elaine Morrall RIP - just saw this on facebook HEART-RENDING: Mum who died alone in the cold with her hat and scarf on
> 
> Her mum put this letter on social media, addressed to local councillors:
> _My daughter lived in Boston ave. She died on the afternoon of 2 November 2017 at home on her own. She was 38yrs.
> ...



Jesus head-banging Christ!     These deaths aren't "accidents", the suicides that have occurred are due to culpable parties - i.e. the authorities - and yet much of the media won't address the issues, which are that Work Capability Assessments, as carried out by "for profit" companies to whom benefits accrue if they cut the claimant count, KILL.  Sanctions can injure and/or KILL. Universal Credit transfer periods can injure and/or kill.  This government is killing and injuring people.  They are culpable.


----------



## Chilli.s (Nov 8, 2017)

"Liked" only in agreement VP. You say it so well.


----------



## Libertad (Nov 12, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> Elaine Morrall RIP - just saw this on facebook HEART-RENDING: Mum who died alone in the cold with her hat and scarf on
> 
> Her mum put this letter on social media, addressed to local councillors:
> _My daughter lived in Boston ave. She died on the afternoon of 2 November 2017 at home on her own. She was 38yrs.
> ...





ViolentPanda said:


> Jesus head-banging Christ!     These deaths aren't "accidents", the suicides that have occurred are due to culpable parties - i.e. the authorities - and yet much of the media won't address the issues, which are that Work Capability Assessments, as carried out by "for profit" companies to whom benefits accrue if they cut the claimant count, KILL.  Sanctions can injure and/or KILL. Universal Credit transfer periods can injure and/or kill.  This government is killing and injuring people.  They are culpable.



Mother of four found dead as she couldn’t afford to keep warm after her benefits were cut


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 12, 2017)

Man declared 'fit for work' is found dead on beach after asking "What's the point?" | Evolve Politics


----------



## teqniq (Dec 28, 2017)

No shit Sherlock

Suicide attempts by disability benefit claimants double after controversial assessments introduced


----------



## Slo-mo (Jan 13, 2018)

crossthebreeze said:


> _But was deemed not ill enough for esa. Had her benefits stopped numerous times, which in turn stopped her housing benefit._



We really, really need to fucking stop this happening. 

Whatever your view on JSA sanctions, getting your JSA sanctioned doesn't affect your legal entitlement to housing benefit. The fact that in practice people are getting punished not once but twice for often the most trivial of mistakes which barely warrant more than warning. This could be sorted out so easily by checking why a persons JSA has been stopped before closing the HB claim. 

I just think the powers that be can't be arsed sorting this out. I really do despair.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 13, 2018)

Slo-mo said:


> We really, really need to fucking stop this happening.
> 
> Whatever your view on JSA sanctions, getting your JSA sanctioned doesn't affect your legal entitlement to housing benefit. The fact that in practice people are getting punished not once but twice for often the most trivial of mistakes which barely warrant more than warning. This could be sorted out so easily by checking why a persons JSA has been stopped before closing the HB claim.
> 
> I just think the powers that be can't be arsed sorting this out. I really do despair.


We're meant to despair. Despair breeds fatalism and compliance in a way that anger doesn't.


----------



## Slo-mo (Jan 13, 2018)

existentialist said:


> We're meant to despair. Despair breeds fatalism and compliance in a way that anger doesn't.


Oh I'm angry too


----------



## billbond (Feb 7, 2018)

shocking and very upsetting  all these terrible storys
Not saying its right but im amazed there have not been some attacks on these people who stop these peoples benefits and sanctions etc
I know they are doing a job and have to follow instructions but dear oh dear
 would not be surprised if there was a major incident one day
What a job


----------



## BigTom (Feb 8, 2018)

billbond said:


> shocking and very upsetting  all these terrible storys
> Not saying its right but im amazed there have not been some attacks on these people who stop these peoples benefits and sanctions etc
> I know they are doing a job and have to follow instructions but dear oh dear
> would not be surprised if there was a major incident one day
> What a job



There have been a few attacks on JCP staff and buildings in Birmingham over the past few years. Not on DWP ESA assessment centres as far as I know though.


----------



## Libertad (Apr 7, 2018)

DWP is facing investigation following the suicide of 42-year-old mum of nine

Nothing will come of this investigation of course.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 17, 2018)

DWP admits to 111,450 deaths of ESA claimants between March 2014 to February 2017.
DWP forced to admit more than 111,000 benefit deaths


----------



## BigTom (Aug 17, 2018)

That doesn't really tell you anything unfortunately. Obviously people are going to die, and people on ESA at a higher rate than the general population, since it includes many people with terminal illnesses, and chronic conditions which shorten life span.

The number that is really wanted is how many people die after being refused ESA and how this compares to the general population, since it should be roughly the same.
Government doesn't keep track of people who are refused ESA so we'll never have that number.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 17, 2018)

tony.c said:


> DWP admits to 111,450 deaths of ESA claimants between March 2014 to February 2017.
> DWP forced to admit more than 111,000 benefit deaths





> the DWP stress that “no causal effect between the benefit and the number of people who died should be assumed from these figures”.



Right.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 17, 2018)

Libertad said:


> Right.


They stress that because they have been extremely careful not to collect any information which might lead a causal connection to be drawn.

I saw the DWP described a few months ago as "increasingly politicised", and realised just how much I'd taken for granted the until recently fairly remarkable Chinese Wall that existed between the political policymakers, and the civil servants implementing those policies. It is clear from the way DWP operates that it appears to have taken on the political ideology as well as the task of merely implementing that ideology. The result is not a happy one.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 19, 2018)

Sounds like she survived, but Nye Bevan News is reporting that a woman set fire to herself in the housing office at Barnet Council.

Minimal reporting in mainstream news.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Aug 19, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Sounds like she survived, but Nye Bevan News is reporting that a woman set fire to herself in the housing office at Barnet Council.
> 
> Minimal reporting in mainstream news.


----------



## Tooter (Sep 16, 2018)




----------



## teqniq (Oct 27, 2018)

“I just can’t find a way to drag myself out of this f.cking sh.thole of a life, I hate myself…”


----------



## UrbaneFox (Nov 14, 2018)

Librarians are being mugged into helping people claim benefits.

That's not what a lot of them bargained for when they decided to become a librarian.

From Benefits and Work;

*“HORRIFIED” AND “REALLY DEPRESSED” LIBRARY ASSISTANTS*
Following on from our story in the last newsletter about librarians providing UC support, we’ve now heard from two library assistants also required to help with UC as part of their job.

One was ‘_horrified’_ to discover that colleagues were questioning applicants about their circumstances and providing advice at a desk in the middle of a public library, with no hope of privacy or confidentiality.

The library assistant has found themselves labelled ‘_hard and unhelpful_’ for refusing to follow their colleagues example. Instead they offer advice solely on computer related issues such as how to use a drop down menu.

The second assistant has yet to have any UC clients. Which is probably fortunate as they have received only one afternoon’s training in UC and said that this left them ‘_really depressed’_.,


----------



## crossthebreeze (Nov 17, 2018)

*Public health research commissioned by Gateshead council:
universal credit linked to suicide risk, says study
Universal credit has become a serious threat to public health, doctors have said, after a study revealed that the stress of coping with the new benefits system had so profoundly affected claimants’ mental health that some considered suicide.

Public health researchers found overwhelmingly negative experiences among vulnerable claimants, including high levels of anxiety and depression, as well as physical problems and social isolation exacerbated by hunger and destitution.
*


----------



## crossthebreeze (Nov 18, 2018)

RIP Penny Oliver
Hounded to death by the NHS
"A mum hounded by the NHS over fees of just £29 took her own life by overdosing on the anti-depressants that drove her into debt.

Penny Oliver owed sums of £8.60 and £20.60. But with penalty fees and surcharges these rocketed – the second one alone soaring to £120.60.

And having lost hundreds of pounds a month when her benefits were cut, mum Penny, 54, simply couldn’t pay.

She had just a few pounds in her account and was surrounded by payment demands when her family found her dead in bed in June.

Letters from the council, the NHS and Department for Work and Pensions included threats to take her to court and inform her employer if she did not pay up."

Penny Oliver had back pain and depression and anxiety, and was in receipt of ESA for a time, and by the looks of it was doing "permitted work" of 15 hours a week while claiming ESA.  Her back pain eased, but her mental health problems continued, and in November 2017 she was found fit for work.  Because of this, she stopped receiving council tax benefit and her housing benefit was halved, but in the process overpayments of these benefits occurred, there was also an overpayment made by the DWP, and during the same period of time, she ticked the wrong box on a prescription form and a dentists form.  She received letters demanding that she pay back the overpayments from her council and DWP - The DWP demand letter threatened to deduct payments straight from her wages. She also received letters about the prescription charges and dental fees that added penalties and surcharges - of almost 10 times as much as the original money owed.  Penny Oliver had upped her working hours and given away her pet dog, but her mental health deteriorated, and she died on June 14th 2018.  It is indicated that money worries played a large part in her death.


----------



## Smoking kills (Nov 18, 2018)

RIP Penny Oliver.
The "NHS" Business Services Authority didn't even bother responding. apparently. Murder by debt and brown envelope. 
For putting a tick in the wrong box.


----------



## Libertad (Nov 24, 2018)

RIP Penny Oliver.


----------



## stuff_it (Jan 8, 2019)

His payments were stopped even though a doctor said he was to sick to work

RIP Kevin Dooley


----------



## Libertad (Jan 8, 2019)

RIP Kevin Dooley.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 8, 2019)

RIp Kevin Dooley


----------



## friendofdorothy (Feb 4, 2019)

> The WCA has long been blighted by controversy. It has been widely criticised as error-prone and mechanistic, often causing harm to the sick and disabled claimants who are obliged to undergo it. Statistics published in 2015 showed that almost 90 people a month were dying after being declared fit for work.


  from this guardian article DWP apologises for telling seriously ill man to find a job

apols if this has already been posted


----------



## Libertad (Feb 10, 2019)

RIP Neil Micklewright, RIP Paul Micklewright.

Twin brothers found hanging from tree in  tragic suicide pact after benefits were cut


----------



## existentialist (Feb 10, 2019)

Libertad said:


> RIP Neil Micklewright, RIP Paul Micklewright.
> 
> Twin brothers found hanging from tree in  tragic suicide pact after benefits were cut


And somewhere, some apparatchik says, mostly in jest, "well, that's two fewer."


----------



## yield (Feb 12, 2019)

RIP Neil Micklewright and RIP Paul Micklewright.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 16, 2019)

Petition: Justice for Jodey Whiting. Independent inquiry into deaths linked to the DWP


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 12, 2019)

Tragic tenant left suicide note sarcastically 'thanking' Universal Credit bosses


----------



## existentialist (Apr 12, 2019)

Fez909 said:


> Tragic tenant left suicide note sarcastically 'thanking' Universal Credit bosses


DWP: 'He said: "Suicide is a very complex issue, so it would be wrong to link it solely to someone’s benefit claim.'

The disingenuous cunts. It doesn't get much clearer than someone specifically blaming them for his suicide. And they can't muddy the waters with "prior mental health issues" bullshit, because there was zero evidence of previous mental health referrals. They have blood on their hands over this, and it's inescapable.


----------



## treelover (Apr 22, 2019)

> Six-stone emaciated man who fought DWP after being denied vital benefits dies
> 
> *Six-stone emaciated man who fought DWP after being denied vital benefits dies*
> Stephen Smith, from Kensington , passed away on Monday, after struggling with a number of severe health problems
> ...





> I send my condolences to the family and friends of Stephen Smith. I also wish to thank the CASA for all the assistance they gave Stephen. Nobody should have to endure what Stephen went through. Too many still are. Let’s get this sorted.




The CASA is run by the former Liverpool Dockers, good for them, RIP Stephen.


----------



## HungryTommy (Apr 26, 2019)

I hope I can get some benefits soon, been out of the country a while - what are my chances?


----------



## Libertad (Apr 26, 2019)

HungryTommy said:


> I hope I can get some benefits soon, been out of the country a while - what are my chances?



Not on this thread you don't.


----------



## BCBlues (Apr 26, 2019)

Libertad said:


> Not on this thread you don't.



What was his name before?


----------



## existentialist (Apr 26, 2019)

BCBlues said:


> What was his name before?


Cunt. Same as this time.


----------



## treelover (Jul 20, 2019)

> UC was the final nail in his coffin” A debt-ridden single dad with just £4.61 took his own life after waiting weeks for #*UniversalCredit* http://bit.ly/2Y6MRak  Phillip Herron, 34, was behind on rent & repaying £20,000 debts - including payday loans with 1,000% interest.
> 
> 
> Single dad with just £4.61 killed himself after 3 week wait for Universal Credit



34, 30 fucking 4, As Lisa Mckenzie says how many more, where are the mobilisations? etc.


----------



## treelover (Jul 20, 2019)

his last moments, he posted this


----------



## Badgers (Jul 20, 2019)

Fucking cunts again *and again*


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Jul 20, 2019)

Was just coming to post this one. Fucking gut wrenching.


----------



## Gaia (Aug 30, 2019)

Benefits row as DWP criticised for refusing payments to dying man DWP criticised over dying man's benefits refusal

According to the article, he was assessed by a paramedic, “who gave him zero points for everything” - I sincerely hope that said paramedic had now been told to find alternative employment.


----------



## StoneRoad (Aug 30, 2019)

RIP James Oliver.

That paramedic does not seem to have a moral compass nor a conscience.


----------



## lizzieloo (Sep 16, 2019)

Ayman Habayeb was 28 when he took his own life, he had an autism spectrum disorder and was diagnosed with depression, they still stopped his benefit.






He left a note on his computer that was found by his parents...

“My only income has been employment and support allowance benefits as I am unfit for work. On August 15 2018 the Department for Work and Pensions decided to terminate those benefits. This means I am no longer able to pay rent or afford food.

“I decided that I would not bother fighting this, and will exit instead. I have written this page to explain my decision to friends and to answer anticipated questions.”

He wasn't found for 9 months.

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news...-life-1-9072786/amp?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## existentialist (Sep 16, 2019)

lizzieloo said:


> Ayman Habayeb was 28 when he took his own life, he had an autism spectrum disorder and was diagnosed with depression, they still stopped his benefit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DWP:


> A DWP spokesman said: "Our thoughts are with Mr Habayeb’s family and friends at this difficult time.
> 
> “We are committed to ensuring that people with health conditions get the support they need.


You lying cunts, DWP.


> “Suicide is a very complex issue and while the inquest examines this tragic case, it wouldn’t be right to draw conclusions.”


You _patronising, _lying cunts, DWP. 

This is what they always say when a claimant kills themselves. What a perfect little get-out to excuse themselves with.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 4, 2019)

Islington historian was found dead in flat after benefits struggle (from Islington Tribune)

A “UNIQUE and creative” historian and museum volunteer had struggled with the benefits system before he was found dead in his flat by his close friend, a coroner’s court heard.

Martin King, 59, was a popular helper at the Islington Museum in Finsbury where he helped curate the LGBTQ archive.

Coroner Graeme Irvine ruled that Mr King had taken his own life in April.

Mr King’s close friend Professor Judith Williamson told the inquest at St Pancras Coroner’s Court on Wednesday that Mr King was “doing the best to manage but not quite managing” when it came to his finances – “despite living extremely frugally”.

She said: “It’s clear he was struggling financially,” adding that her friend had been “daunted” by the Personal Independence Payment (PIP) application to the Department for Work and Pensions which provides extra funds to those with long-term illnesses or disabilities.

Professor Williamson told the court: “The PIP form was extremely invasive, it’s 40 pages and he never filled it in.”

She described how he had later “withdrawn” from the application and she found the incomplete form in his home while sorting out his personal items.

She also said Mr King struggled with his Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) application, which is another form of benefit usually arranged through the Jobcentre for those unable to work.

“He was required to repeat issues that were very sensitive to him,” said Professor Williamson.

“It seems he felt that his credibility was being questioned when he was making this claim.

“He found it humiliating and embarrassing to put it down in writing to justify himself.”

  :flamethrower:


----------



## existentialist (Oct 4, 2019)

I'm seeing a counselling client who's on PIP. When he first came to see me, he had an upcoming assessment hanging over his head. He's done well in the work, and by his own account feels much happier, and more able to function. However, he's a long way - in my view - from being "fit to work", and he's bricking it about this assessment, because he knows he has to somehow present himself as far worse than he is, just to be able to qualify for benefits which, in my view, the potentially-only-temporary improvement in his mood may well be regarded as evidence for removing PIP from him.

How shit is a system where someone has to, quite possibly at the cost of the improvements in their mental health, have to "pretend" to themselves and an assessor that they are not as well as they might actually feel? Ugh


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 29, 2019)

No one died here, but this is shameful:
PIP assessor told claimant to ignore her ‘irrelevant’ suicide attempt… then challenged her son to a fight


----------



## Libertad (Oct 29, 2019)

Orang Utan said:


> No one died here, but this is shameful:
> PIP assessor told claimant to ignore her ‘irrelevant’ suicide attempt… then challenged her son to a fight



I hope the cunt gets the shoeing he deserves.


----------



## GarveyLives (Nov 18, 2019)

> _"A man has passed away while waiting for an appointment in a job centre in South Wales ..._



Man dies in Job Centre queue _after being declared fit to work_


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 20, 2019)

I came to post about him too -  Fit-to-work man dies at a job centre  piece in the Metro included this:


> An investigation by Disability News Service earlier this year claimed that more than 5,000 people died within six months of being found fit for work between 2008 and 2017. It also emerged that more than 17,000 claimants for Personal Independence Payments died before the DWP made a decision on their claim.


 shameful


----------



## treelover (Jan 24, 2020)

The death of Errol Graham: Man starved to death after DWP wrongly stopped his benefits
					

A disabled man starved to death after the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) wrongly stopped his out-of-work benefits, leaving him without any income. Errol Graham weighed just four-and-a-half …




					www.disabilitynewsservice.com


----------



## teqniq (Jan 25, 2020)




----------



## treelover (Jan 30, 2020)

If people did believe he was murdered by the DWP, then surely they would act, and if they don't believe this, what do they think happened to him,


----------



## StoneRoad (Jan 31, 2020)

RIP Errol

Dreadful situation, lost for words !


----------



## yield (Jan 31, 2020)

RIP Errol. No safeguarding no nothing. 

Five stone. Horrifying agonising death. The government are to blame.


----------



## GarveyLives (Feb 10, 2020)

> _"Government has investigated *69 suicides of benefit claimants in last five years* – which is 'highly unlikely' to be overall number of self-inflicted deaths, says National Audit Office ..."_


_
‘Disgraceful’ surge in suicides among benefit claimants prompts condemnation of the Department for Work and Pensions

Predictably, "lessons" will be "learned":

Department for Work and Pensions pledges to learn from cases linked to suicide amid call for independent probe_


----------



## GarveyLives (Feb 26, 2020)

> _"The Department for Work and Pensions has been accused of “a cover-up” after destroying reports into suicides linked to benefits being stopped ..."_



'Cover-up': Department for Work and Pensions *destroyed* reports into people who killed themselves after benefits were stopped


----------



## GarveyLives (Feb 27, 2020)

> _"*Errol Graham*, a desperately ill man who *died of starvation when his benefits were cut off*, wrote a moving letter pleading with welfare officials to “judge me fairly” because he was overwhelmed by depression ..."_


'Judge me fairly': man who starved to death's plea to welfare officials


----------



## gosub (Mar 20, 2020)

They effectively just raised Universal Credit by 25%


----------



## GarveyLives (May 1, 2020)

GarveyLives said:


> 'Judge me fairly': man who starved to death's plea to welfare officials



Man who starved after benefits cut off _'had pulled out own teeth'_







(Source: Errol Graham's family)

*Errol Graham weighed four-and-a-half stone (30kg) when his body was found by bailiffs who broke into his Nottingham council flat to evict him.*​


----------



## Celyn (May 18, 2020)

gosub said:


> They effectively just raised Universal Credit by 25%


Did they?


----------



## Badgers (May 28, 2020)

gosub said:


> They effectively just raised Universal Credit by 25%


Eh?


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2020)

Not for legacy ESA they didn't


----------



## GarveyLives (Aug 25, 2020)

The death of a woman whose one-year-old child was reportedly found starving beside her body is being investigated.

*Mercy Baguma*, originally from Uganda, was discovered in a flat in Glasgow on Saturday 22 August 2020 after the sounds of her son crying were heard.

Mercy Baguma: Mum 'found dead beside baby' in Glasgow flat









(Source: as stated in image)

*Mercy lost her job after her limited leave to remain expired and she was no longer allowed to work.  She was living in extreme poverty when she claimed asylum and was relying on food from friends and charitable organisations.*​


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 11, 2021)

Distressed mum killed herself after benefit payment struggle became 'last straw'
					

Philippa Day, 27, had taken an overdose in August 2019 and remained in a coma until she died on October 15 of the same year after her payments of £228 were reduced to £60 after she applied for Personal Independence Payments (PIP)




					www.mirror.co.uk
				






> A distressed mum killed herself after struggle to access her benefit payment became the "last straw", an inquest has heard.
> 
> Philippa Day, 27, took an overdose in August 2019 and remained in a coma until she died on October 15 of the same year.
> 
> ...


----------



## panpete (Jan 11, 2021)

It is so sad we live in a day where the welfare state reduce money with impunity and suicide is often the consequence.
I've got online friends with real welfare needs who have had DLA changed to £0 pip.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 11, 2021)

Don't know what it'd take for the nice affluent middle classes to give a shit. It's just awful.


----------



## GarveyLives (Jan 12, 2021)

GarveyLives said:


> Man who starved after benefits cut off _'had pulled out own teeth'_
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The fiancée of the son of mentally ill *Errol Graham*, who _starved to death_ after his benefits were stopped by the Department for Work and Pensions has brought a legal claim against the Government on behalf of his family, arguing that the Department for Work and Pensions' policy on terminating benefits is unlawful.  The High Court hearing before Mr Justice Bourne is expected to conclude tomorrow, with judgement to be delivered at a later date:

Department for Work and Pensions breached equality law when benefits claimant starved to death, court hears


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 12, 2021)

I wish her and Mr Graham's family all the best with the claim.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 28, 2021)

A damning inquest verdict, pointing the finger pretty unequivocally at DWP. Who respond with their usual trite, meaningless, platitudinous and insincere drivel. 









						Inquest finds mother took overdose after removal of benefits
					

Coronor says Philippa Day’s experiences with DWP were ‘predominant factor’ in her decision




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## BCBlues (Jan 28, 2021)

existentialist said:


> A damning inquest verdict, pointing the finger pretty unequivocally at DWP. Who respond with their usual trite, meaningless, platitudinous and insincere drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I read this earlier and cannot believe how badly they treated her knowing damned well of her vulnerabilities. Disgraceful.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 28, 2021)

BCBlues said:


> I read this earlier and cannot believe how badly they treated her knowing damned well of her vulnerabilities. Disgraceful.


They don't give a shit. Organisationally, at least. I've worked with quite a few DWP employees whose emotional health has been profoundly affected by doing the job they have to do. Quite a few go onto long-term sickness, and quite a few of those are hounded out as a result, while others leave. The ones who stay tend to be less concerned about the person on the other end, or are sufficiently incompetent as to make it harder for them to move.


----------



## panpete (Jan 28, 2021)

existentialist said:


> A damning inquest verdict, pointing the finger pretty unequivocally at DWP. Who respond with their usual trite, meaningless, platitudinous and insincere drivel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I read about that. We slate the victorians for their cruelty and insensitivity yet we are as bad.


----------



## panpete (Jan 28, 2021)

existentialist said:


> They don't give a shit. Organisationally, at least. I've worked with quite a few DWP employees whose emotional health has been profoundly affected by doing the job they have to do. Quite a few go onto long-term sickness, and quite a few of those are hounded out as a result, while others leave. The ones who stay tend to be less concerned about the person on the other end, or are sufficiently incompetent as to make it harder for them to move.


I used to work in the Civil Service years ago, not DWP/DHSS and back then it was "customer always come first" even if the customer was wrong, complaints were taken seriously. We went on customer service courses, customer enquiry letters/phonecalls/visits had to be dealt with promptly, there was none of this 21st century rhubarb.


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## panpete (Jan 28, 2021)

GarveyLives said:


> The fiancée of the son of mentally ill *Errol Graham*, who _starved to death_ after his benefits were stopped by the Department for Work and Pensions has brought a legal claim against the Government on behalf of his family, arguing that the Department for Work and Pensions' policy on terminating benefits is unlawful.  The High Court hearing before Mr Justice Bourne is expected to conclude tomorrow, with judgement to be delivered at a later date:
> 
> Department for Work and Pensions breached equality law when benefits claimant starved to death, court hears


Poor Mr Graham. DWP treated him terribly, how did he starve to death when he could have got food from food banks?
Not blaming him, just wondering. I am obviously missing something.


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## existentialist (Jan 28, 2021)

panpete said:


> Poor Mr Graham. DWP treated him terribly, how did he starve to death when he could have got food from food banks?
> Not blaming him, just wondering. I am obviously missing something.


Where mental health issues are involved, it doesn't take much of the DWP's kind of Kafkaesque shit to leave people completely unable to cope.

Not to mention that the unrelenting narrative around benefits claimants can create great shame around the idea of asking for help.


----------



## panpete (Jan 28, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Where mental health issues are involved, it doesn't take much of the DWP's kind of Kafkaesque shit to leave people completely unable to cope.
> 
> Not to mention that the unrelenting narrative around benefits claimants can create great shame around the idea of asking for help.


Thanks for elaborating for me. Poor chap.


----------



## Dystopiary (May 10, 2021)

The family of Philippa Day, a mentally ill single mother who died from a deliberate overdose after her benefits were wrongly cut off, is to seek compensation from the government. 

Philippa Day death: family launches legal challenge against DWP


----------



## Badgers (May 31, 2021)

Disabled dad took his own life just hours after DWP suspended his benefits
					

WARNING - DISTRESSING CONTENT: Maxwell Quinton left a haunting note for his wife Andrina and son Harry begging them to “tell the benefit system what they are doing to people like me”



					www.mirror.co.uk
				






> A disabled dad who had his benefits suspended by the DWP following a bank statement mix up tragically took his own life hours later.
> 
> Maxwell Quinton left a haunting note for his wife Andrina and son Harry begging them to “tell the benefit system what they are doing to people like me”.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 5, 2021)

DWP’s ‘excruciating PIP assessment torture’ helped cause my son’s suicide, says disabled mum

*A young disabled man took his own life, just weeks after the Department for Work and Pensions slashed his benefits, despite being warned he was severely depressed, malnourished, could not face leaving his flat, and had made several suicide attempts.*

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) had been told by his parents in January 2019 that Ker Featherstone (_pictured_) had barely left his flat in two years, that he would often pass out when he stood up because of malnutrition, and even that his teeth had started to crumble. 

The department was also told that his anxiety and depression were so severe that he could not cope with visits from his own brothers and sisters, and that he had not washed in nearly 18 months.

His disabled mother, Helen, spoke out publicly about her son’s death for the first time this week, inspired in part by the “amazing” efforts of Joy Dove. 

Dove was in the high court last week to fight for a second inquest into the death of her disabled daughter, Jodey Whiting, who took her own life in 2017 after her benefits were removed.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 5, 2021)

Jodey Whiting: Judge asks why DWP failed to ‘pick up a phone’ before claimant’s suicide

*A high court judge has asked the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) why it did not take the “common sense” step of phoning a disabled woman with a long history of mental distress – who later took her own life – before it removed her benefits. *

Mrs Justice Farbey, one of three high court judges who will decide whether there will be a second inquest into the death of Jodey Whiting in February 2017, suggested that the court might be able to “infer” from the evidence it had received that there was a “systemic” failure by DWP. 

Whiting, a mother-of-nine and grandmother from Stockton-on-Tees, took her own life in February 2017, 15 days after she had her employment and support allowance (ESA) mistakenly stopped for missing a face-to-face work capability assessment.

But the original inquest into her death lasted just 37 minutes and did not investigate DWP’s role in her death. 

................................. 

According to DWP’s safeguarding procedures, the department should have contacted “vulnerable” claimants like Whiting by telephone if they missed their assessment, but a report by the Independent Case Examiner (ICE) later found no evidence that this had been done.

DWP should also have considered a safeguarding visit to her home, but again there was no evidence that this was done.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 5, 2021)

Dystopiary said:


> Jodey Whiting: Judge asks why DWP failed to ‘pick up a phone’ before claimant’s suicide
> 
> *A high court judge has asked the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) why it did not take the “common sense” step of phoning a disabled woman with a long history of mental distress – who later took her own life – before it removed her benefits. *
> 
> ...


The thing is, in the carefully cultivated court of opinion, this will count for nothing. She was already written off by virtue of the fact that she depended on benefits


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 5, 2021)

.


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## Dystopiary (Jul 12, 2021)

DWP silence over figures suggesting 50 deaths inquiries in just six months

*The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has refused to explain why it appears to have launched more than 50 secret reviews into the deaths of benefit claimants in just the first six months of this year.*

This would be a huge increase on recent years, which have previously seen an average of less than 30 completed reviews a year. 

[...] 

Reynolds told DNS: “The sharp increase in internal process reviews is deeply troubling. Behind every number is a family who deserve answers.

“The government’s cruel assessment processes are having devastating consequences and questions need to be answered.

“How many reviews does it take before lessons are learnt and disabled people are treated with the respect and dignity they deserve?”

Last December, DNS reported how new analysis suggested that DWP was failing to investigate the suicides of hundreds of benefit claimants every year, despite the vital lessons it could learn from such inquiries.

Labour’s Debbie Abrahams, who has led parliamentary efforts to hold DWP to account on deaths linked to its actions, told work and pensions secretary Therese Coffey this week that she believed “we are really only scratching the surface of understanding both the scale and the causes” of such deaths.

She called on Coffey again to explain why she was refusing to set up an independent inquiry into deaths linked to DWP’s actions. 

[...] 

[W]hen pushed again by Abrahams over the need for an inquiry, she said: I don’t feel the need to undertake that.” 

[...] 

Her response comes despite DWP saying on its own website that it has set up a serious case panel, which first met in September 2019, to make recommendations “to address systemic issues identified from serious cases to prevent similar cases occurring in the future”. 

Coffey’s claim of “continuous improvements” comes despite nearly a decade of high-profile tragedies, legal cases, campaigns, research, protests, television exposés, parliamentary debates, and reports by MPs and other organisations into deaths linked to the department’s “fitness for work” regime.


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## Dystopiary (Jul 23, 2021)

[content note: suicide] 

 

Clive’s mental health went on a steep decline after being wrongfully accused of fraud by the DWP in 2016. In 2017, he took his own life. This is his story, filmed in his flat, as told by his sister Trudi. #StopBenefitDeaths

Clive's Story


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## Anxious (Aug 1, 2021)

Again we can see the vindictive nature of the tories and the ruling class , they care nothing for poor , the disabled and the working class , they are truly evil vermin and as a country we need to get rid of them


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## Badgers (Aug 1, 2021)

Fucking #ToryScum


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## Cado (Sep 5, 2021)

Anybody got an up-to-date list on the bodycount in terms of DWP vs population?

It would just make it easier for me (I'm researching this individually) rather than go through 32 pages.


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## David Clapson (Sep 9, 2021)

Look at this! The real David Clapson finally gets a more fitting memorial than being my urban nom de plume:









						Ground-breaking production will create a high-tech museum of DWP’s victims
					

The stories of 10 disabled people whose deaths have been linked publicly to the failings of the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) are to be told in a ground-breaking digital production that ex…




					www.disabilitynewsservice.com
				






> Ground-breaking production will create a high-tech museum of DWP’s victims​By John Pring on 9th September 2021Category: Benefits and Poverty
> 
> ListenReadSpeaker webReader: ListenFocus
> *The stories of 10 disabled people whose deaths have been linked publicly to the failings of the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) are to be told in a ground-breaking digital production that explores the devastating human impact of austerity.*
> ...


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## Cado (Sep 9, 2021)

You mean a Museum to a country that forgot the money is simply printed.


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## David Clapson (Sep 9, 2021)

Well, it's probably more than the rest of us will get.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2021)

Cado said:


> Anybody got an up-to-date list on the bodycount in terms of DWP vs population?
> 
> It would just make it easier for me (I'm researching this individually) rather than go through 32 pages.


At least 268 DWP sees 'sharp rise' in benefit death reviews on their own figures and probably many many hundreds more


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## Cado (Oct 16, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> At least 268 DWP sees 'sharp rise' in benefit death reviews on their own figures and probably many many hundreds more


Cheers for that.


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## Brainaddict (Nov 3, 2021)

For once some small measure of justice for the cruelty inflicted on a daily basis by Capita: Capita pays compensation to family of woman who died after benefits cut

Sadly I doubt it will change much about how they work. The DWP getting a 'prevention of future deaths' notice from the coroner is also good, but if the DWP wanted to prevent deaths they would have changed long ago, so I expect they will also continue on their murderous way.


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## Cado (Nov 7, 2021)

__





						Assaults on Jobcentre staff fall 89% due to pandemic homeworking
					





					www.msn.com
				




Alternatively, all those jailed by the pigs for acting in self defence to a grouping of satanists on a killing spree.


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## GarveyLives (Nov 8, 2021)

Very disturbing:

Terminally-ill people _dying before benefits paid_


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## Shechemite (Dec 16, 2021)

People are killing themselves because of the disability benefits system, says documentary maker
					

In a shocking new documentary, Richard Butchins reveals the devastating toll it takes on people's mental and physical health




					inews.co.uk


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## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 17, 2021)

Dispatches on Channel 4 tonight: truth about disbility benefits
e2a: I see it's the one referred to in the post above.


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## Cado (Dec 20, 2021)

Watched it all. Grim stuff.


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## starfish2000 (Dec 30, 2021)

Shechemite said:


> People are killing themselves because of the disability benefits system, says documentary maker
> 
> 
> In a shocking new documentary, Richard Butchins reveals the devastating toll it takes on people's mental and physical health
> ...


I reported Iain Duncan Smith to the ICC at the  Hague a couple of years ago. I never heard anything back. But that’s where he belongs. He’s a fucking murderer.


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## srb7677 (Mar 28, 2022)

Part of the problem we have in this country is that almost the entire ruling class is complicit in this cruelty, including those running the Labour party right now as well. Rachel Reaces, the shadow chancellor, once promised to be tougher on welfare than the tories in pursuit of the knuckle dragger vote. And welfare sanctions first began to be implemented in a punitive way under Tory Blur - sorry, I mean Tony Blair. Shamefully, the first foodbanks in this country became necessary under his watch. And during the tail end of the New Labour years - on Brown's watch - the draconian disability testing regime by ATOS was legislated into existence. Yes the evil Tories inherited it ready to go and ran enthusiastically with it, but it was New Labour's baby.

We must never forget that, nor the fact that these people are back in charge of Labour again. For a time, Labour became a mass movement led by a man who cared. But the media and the Blairite scumbags in the party did all in their power to destroy that and have sadly succeeded, having got their man in on a tissue of lies. I actually was a member of the party for a time but resigned in disgust last year. My time in the party brought me and other comrades into direct and frequent contact with Blairite types at a local level. I know how they think and how they behave. They actually believe working class people to all be a bunch of racists and bigots and hold us in contempt, yet think we are idiots for not voting for them anyway.

Neither Labour nor Tories at the moment are on the side of those of us who are victims of the status quo. And that sadly includes those driven to their deaths by a wilfully cruel system.


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## David Clapson (Mar 28, 2022)

I agree with the above. I think Labour are hostages of the right wing press, who reflect/amplify the mean spirited tendency of many voters, who want the benefits system to be tough, otherwise "it would pay not to work". There are hardly any socialists with any power. If we had a balanced press, who told the truth about the benefits system, the nurturing side of voters could be amplified and we'd have a fairer state, along Nordic lines. The Nordic model shows that it works.


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## Dystopiary (Mar 29, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> Part of the problem we have in this country is that almost the entire ruling class is complicit in this cruelty, including those running the Labour party right now as well. Rachel Reaces, the shadow chancellor, once promised to be tougher on welfare than the tories in pursuit of the knuckle dragger vote. And welfare sanctions first began to be implemented in a punitive way under Tory Blur - sorry, I mean Tony Blair. Shamefully, the first foodbanks in this country became necessary under his watch. And during the tail end of the New Labour years - on Brown's watch - the draconian disability testing regime by ATOS was legislated into existence. Yes the evil Tories inherited it ready to go and ran enthusiastically with it, but it was New Labour's baby.
> 
> We must never forget that, nor the fact that these people are back in charge of Labour again. For a time, Labour became a mass movement led by a man who cared. But the media and the Blairite scumbags in the party did all in their power to destroy that and have sadly succeeded, having got their man in on a tissue of lies. I actually was a member of the party for a time but resigned in disgust last year. My time in the party brought me and other comrades into direct and frequent contact with Blairite types at a local level. I know how they think and how they behave. They actually believe working class people to all be a bunch of racists and bigots and hold us in contempt, yet think we are idiots for not voting for them anyway.
> 
> Neither Labour nor Tories at the moment are on the side of those of us who are victims of the status quo. And that sadly includes those driven to their deaths by a wilfully cruel system.


Thank you! It really pisses me off how easily people have forgotten it was New Labour that brought in the cruel tests, outsourced to the likes of Atos and Capita. They dropped Incapacity Benefit, which many people relied on, and instead brought in the Work Capability Assessments, designed to make it really difficult to receive the then new ESA. James Purnell, Work and Pensions minister at the time, used the textbook right-wing li(n)e, “People who scrounge from the system take money away from legitimate claimants. Clearly we want to stop that." Of course it just made life a lot worse for the majority of disability benefits claimants, and incredibly difficult for new and future claimants, as we have seen.

At the same time they made it even harder for people claiming Disability Living Allowance. People who'd long been eligible found they were no longer entitled, in many cases having to subsequently give up their place on the Motability Scheme, meaning they were deprived of transport.

(I believe that hostile environment facilitated the Tories' scrapping of DLA in favour of the worse PIP a few years later.)

So for these reasons alone, screw Labour.


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## David Clapson (Mar 29, 2022)

I didn't realise that almost the entire political class is in favour of a merciless benefits regime, which results in the shortening of many thousands of lives each year, until I had it explained to me by a benefits advisior at Citizens Advice in South Norwood.  That's why the appalling statistics never result in meaningful changes. The judges at the tribunals seem to be the only safety valve. In other areas of life, tribunals are a rarely used last resort. But with benefits, the system produces a huge volume of injustice which the DWP refuses to resolve. Even before the pandemic, there was a 12-18 month wait for a tribunal, which comes after a review process, which is only invoked by the minority of claimants who can grapple with the process. If you're too ill or depressed or frightened or not an expert with complex forms or haven't got a very helpful friend or relative, you fall through the cracks, which is what the ministers want.  The judges know exactly what the big picture is, so they try to give people a fair chance by getting through cases as fast as they can. In my case, I got a text as I was getting ready to set off, saying that my file already had everything the judge needed to decide in my favour. In other words, the DWP's own statement made it clear that they had no case. From what I read at benefitsandwork.co.uk, this is very common. In other words, the DWP knows that your claim is valid, but they turn you down just to force you through the appeal procedure, because there's a good chance you won't make it to the end. That policy is a huge crime. But difficult and expensive to prove.


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## inva (Mar 29, 2022)

David Clapson unless it's your actual name is there a good reason why you're using the name of a man who died while under benefits sanctions along with that tagline?


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## David Clapson (Mar 29, 2022)

The name is a memorial to him. Keep him alive a little bit. The tagline is something that somebody here called me here once. I think. So long ago that I'm not sure. It's never occurred to me that someone might take it to mean that I'm insulting the real David Clapson.


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## inva (Mar 29, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> The name is a memorial to him. Keep him alive a little bit. The tagline is something that somebody here called me here once. I think. So long ago that I'm not sure. It's never occurred to me that someone might take it to mean that I'm insulting the real David Clapson.


Seeing someone posting on this thread of all places with "David Clapson - Infamous Knob" under their avatar seemed a bit off to be honest. Appreciate the explanation and you changing it.


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## David Clapson (Mar 29, 2022)

Well done you. You even got a couple of likes for repeating yourself.


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## Shechemite (Mar 29, 2022)

big egos are a big problem in anti-austerity groups so yeah this feels apt


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## existentialist (Mar 29, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Well done you. You even got a couple of likes for repeating yourself.


You really need to get your head out of your arse.


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## Dystopiary (Mar 30, 2022)

Evidence collated over the past ten years by the Disability News Service, plus other journos, academics and activists shows -

"systemic negligence by DWP, a culture of cover-up and denial, and a refusal to accept that the department has a duty of care to those disabled people claiming support through the social security system. It also shows how DWP continues to pose a serious and continuing risk to the lives of disabled people who pass through the assessment system. And it demonstrates that the department itself is not fit for purpose and needs to be scrapped and rebuilt." 

Department for Work and Pensions: Deaths, cover-up, and a toxic 30-year legacy

"Based on this evidence, DNS is calling again for an independent inquiry to investigate DWP’s actions over the last 15 years and for a police inquiry into whether there has been criminal misconduct in public office by senior civil servants and ministers since 2010."


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## Dystopiary (May 23, 2022)

The DWP failed to notify a disabled man's GP or social services about the "very extensive" difficulties he was facing. Three months later he was found dead in conditions of severe "self-neglect." 



> A safeguarding review of the death of Mr A, from Leeds, concluded that a healthcare assessor working for a DWP contractor was probably the last person to see him alive, other than his disabled wife.
> 
> The face-to-face benefits assessment was carried out so Mr A could be transferred from long-term incapacity benefit to employment and support allowance (ESA).
> 
> The assessment report was passed on to DWP, and he was placed in the ESA support group, but no attempt was made to contact his local GP or Leeds City Council, to inform them about the substantial problems he was facing.



This bit's really important: 



> It is just the latest evidence of years of failings by DWP to prioritise the safety of benefit claimants, with ministers repeatedly declaring that the department does not have a legal duty to “safeguard” its claimants.



So you've got people employed by the government* to make decisions about someone's capacity; *these same people* *can see someone - as part of their job* *- who's clearly vulnerable and unable to care for themselves, and with no known means of support *and they're *not legally obliged to a thing about it except decide whether they get the minimum amount of money or not. So they could see someone, in the course of their work, who is in the severest state of neglect and not do a thing about it. They can even stop their money, walk away, reasonably aware that person could be in grave danger, and that's considered legally and morally ok. *

‘Severely neglected’ man found dead, three months after DWP assessment




* or by a company outsourced by the government


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## Dystopiary (May 23, 2022)

In further news, the government has branded the Disability News Network "vexatious" for using the Freedom of Information Act to try and get details about secret reviews into deaths and other serious incidents regarding benefit claimants.



> DNS asked the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) last month for copies of all the internal process reviews carried out between 1 September 2020 and 28 April 2022.
> 
> 
> But DWP is refusing to release the documents, claiming that to do so would place an “undue burden and pressure” on the department, despite its £7 billion budget.
> ...



Government brands DNS ‘vexatious’ for trying to obtain info on 90 DWP deaths

Vexatious.


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## teqniq (May 23, 2022)

I would contend that anyone involved in social care decisions and that includes employees of the DWP, particularly assessors is or should be bound by duty of care. Much as it may suit what passes for our government at present to say otherwise for all the very wrong reasons and, in fact to deliberately enact policies which are designed to fail the people they are supposed to help; it is long past time that this should be tested in court where hopefully the right judgement is made.


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## David Clapson (May 23, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> In further news, the government has branded the Disability News Network "vexatious" for using the Freedom of Information Act to try and get details about secret reviews into deaths and other serious incidents regarding benefit claimants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is why Blair considers the FOIA to be a mistake.


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## srb7677 (Jun 8, 2022)

There is a significant problem re attitudes to welfare in both major parties now. 

The Labour party has been entirely taken over by aspirational middle class types, who inherently believe that the way out of poverty is to aspire to better things as they do, believing that they only have to remove the obstacles to success for everyone to achieve their potential. And that once this is done, if you are still poor it is your own fault for not being aspirational enough, In this they already think very much the same as Tories. It of course completely ignores the fact that someone has to work on supermarket checkouts, drive busses, sweep the streets, cut the grass, serve in pubs and restaurants, etc. These jobs are mostly not disappearing anytime soon. Anyone who successfully aspires to rise out of them merely creates a vacancy in the same shitty job they have just left. Short of tackling low pay and crap terms and conditions directly, encouraging aspriration merely moves poverty around. There will always be those in crap jobs and it is not their fault that the jobs are crap. And increased competition for the smaller number of better paid opportunities will in time simply allow pay here to fall too.

New Labour and Tory attitudes to welfare are class based. They are the attitudes of the affluent middle classes assuming that the poor are poor because of their own lack of effort, ie that it is their own fault that they are poor. Which in turn makes them assume that a great many welfare claimants are somehow undeserving and that it is right to be tough on them. A degree of snobbish class disdain is a factor here. That Tories have always thought like this is common knowledge. That Labour now does so too is shocking. And they regard the poor as stupid if they don't vote for them anyway. The poor's ever more evident disconnect from Labour is somehow not something Labour takes responsibility for. They seem incapable of understanding why, when their whole attitude is itself a big part of the reason. The Labour party, certainly at the parliamentary level, has become largely disconnected from the working classes it was formed to support. And the working classes are noticing, and responding to this by not unreasonably withholding their support from the party in ever growing numbers.

When I was in the party myself, I noticed these attitudes in spades amongst centrist types. Most of the working class elements amongst the membership were on the left, the very ones no longer welcome. There is a widespread assumption that the working class is mostly racist and thick. And it was commonly said that Labour was now a middle class party with an eagerness to abandon the working classes they derided. In short the typical Labour centrist holds the working classes in contempt, yet believes they are stupid for not voting for them anyway.

Such thinking feeds all too easily into Labour's negative attitudes towards welfare.


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## Cado (Jun 9, 2022)

Labour aren't in Government, the Tories are. The ENTIRE welfare system is of their making, right back to Job Seekers Allowance of the Thatcher years - introduced at £65pw. Universal Credit - of Iain D. Smiths creation, introduced in 2014 at £100pw and reduced to £70pw because they thought IDS was being too soft on people.
New Labour can be accused of being negligent in that they trusted the Civil Service too much - that all these things would be dealt with, managed properly. They stand accused of ignorance IMO as a management outfit of taking too much trust in the civil service for granted. New Labour worked off newspaper headlines as one of their principal means of garnering what was going on in the outside world. Welfare wasn't in the headlines EVER during the New Labour years. 
Basically it was the same Tory welfare system operating at ground level.
New Labour didn't fix what they didn't know to be broken. 

Long story short, the welfare system is still the same as it was in the 80's except with the ADDITION of Universal Credit, which is just as miserly as Thatcher.


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## isvicthere? (Jun 9, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> There is a significant problem re attitudes to welfare in both major parties now.
> 
> The Labour party has been entirely taken over by aspirational middle class types, who inherently believe that the way out of poverty is to aspire to better things as they do, believing that they only have to remove the obstacles to success for everyone to achieve their potential. And that once this is done, if you are still poor it is your own fault for not being aspirational enough, In this they already think very much the same as Tories. It of course completely ignores the fact that someone has to work on supermarket checkouts, drive busses, sweep the streets, cut the grass, serve in pubs and restaurants, etc. These jobs are mostly not disappearing anytime soon. Anyone who successfully aspires to rise out of them merely creates a vacancy in the same shitty job they have just left. Short of tackling low pay and crap terms and conditions directly, encouraging aspriration merely moves poverty around. There will always be those in crap jobs and it is not their fault that the jobs are crap. And increased competition for the smaller number of better paid opportunities will in time simply allow pay here to fall too.
> 
> ...



Excellent and wise post, dude. States the situation concisely and with far more punch than Steve Rayson´s "The fall of the Red Wall" book, which is rather ponderous and repetitive. Respect!


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## srb7677 (Jun 9, 2022)

Cado said:


> Labour aren't in Government, the Tories are. The ENTIRE welfare system is of their making, right back to Job Seekers Allowance of the Thatcher years - introduced at £65pw. Universal Credit - of Iain D. Smiths creation, introduced in 2014 at £100pw and reduced to £70pw because they thought IDS was being too soft on people.
> New Labour can be accused of being negligent in that they trusted the Civil Service too much - that all these things would be dealt with, managed properly. They stand accused of ignorance IMO as a management outfit of taking too much trust in the civil service for granted. New Labour worked off newspaper headlines as one of their principal means of garnering what was going on in the outside world. Welfare wasn't in the headlines EVER during the New Labour years.
> Basically it was the same Tory welfare system operating at ground level.
> New Labour didn't fix what they didn't know to be broken.
> ...


Have you forgotten that the first food banks became necessary under New Labour? I can remember that being in the news. Along with all the talk about scroungers and the need to be tough on them, accompanied by sanctions.

And the abolition of Incapacity Benefit and introduction of work capability assessments run by ATOS was legislated into existence under New Labour. The Tories ran with this enthusiastically but they didn't create it. New Labour did.


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## Cado (Jun 9, 2022)

I can't confirm or deny that the first food banks were under New Labour. 

I'm just saying that the Benefit System that built it was an 80s build - it was a Tory Benefit System that precipitated the Food Banks - New LAbour didn't even Tweak things as a political movement. The DWP posting (as a minister) was/is a junior posting. For the 'HEAD' part of New Labour (Blair/Brown) they'd have never stop to consider the 'non-working' because in their day (the 60/70s) Social Security worked - Social Security is the DEpt that from the 50s (if not earlier) dealt with the 'non-working' - the DWP has succeed it under THatcher, she abolished SS in the early 1980s.

I'm not of an opinion that New Labour would have willfully employed ATOS to do things negatively, the Civil Service however within the DWP would be another kettle of fish. I think the Civil Service are 90% of the driving force within the DWP and they're almost communist. THey NEED you working, secondly they're useless.

THis country had a good welfare system up until Thatcher, the REgional Councils did it, there were approx 60 in England. The entire welfare package circa 1978 was £250. £60 in kind for your Council HOuse £180 or so for long term unemployment benefit. THe 'Dole' was around £60 to £70pw BUT that was supposed to be short term until you got your long term welfare.

To the Best of my knowledge - welfare, whilst not fantastic, gave you no problem with food/clothes/bills and going to the pub once a week.

Thatcher, the fascist and satanist, binned it all.


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## existentialist (Jun 10, 2022)

I don't want to be too much at home to Mr Reproachful here, but this thread was really for individual examples of people brutalised by the welfare system, not general discussion on policy, for which there are other threads....


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## Cado (Jun 12, 2022)

Okay, I'm all ears....


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## friendofdorothy (Aug 31, 2022)

Saw on line recently that over 29300 people had had their disability benefits cut in the last few years and 1000 had died  (saw it tweeted here:    but thought Best for Britain sound a bit iffy? )

seems to be using similar figures from in press last year -  293,000 disabled people have DWP's decision on PIP payments overturned in court 
Seven out of 10 win benefits challenges at tribunal


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## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2022)

.


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## Dystopiary (Sep 15, 2022)

The body of a disabled man was discovered in his derelict home six months after his benefits were cut off by the DWP, a report says. 



> He was last seen alive by DWP staff at a jobcentre.
> 
> An independent review into his death, which also examined the failings of other public bodies that had dealings with him, criticised the failure of DWP and other agencies to investigate why he had not kept appointments.





> The review into the death of the man, known only as E, was carried out on behalf of Telford and Wrekin Safeguarding Adults Board (TWSAB) and was obtained by Disability News Service (DNS) following a freedom of information request.
> 
> The circumstances of the man’s death have not previously been reported, DNS understands.



The man, officially known as "E" died sometime between October 2016 and early 2017, at the age of 43.

Disabled man’s body found six months after DWP cut off his benefits


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## Dystopiary (Nov 19, 2022)

A disabled woman who was left traumatised by the daily demands of the benefit system took her own life.

The Disability News Service reports that Rebecca* would shake and cry every time she had to log onto her online universal credit “journal”, which she was forced to do every weekday to avoid having her benefits sanctioned.



> Although she had been given a six-month “fit note” by her doctor that explained that she was not fit for work, she was still expected to have regular appointments with a work coach until her fitness for work could be assessed by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) contractor Maximus.
> 
> DWP had been told of her mental distress, suicidal thoughts and fear of the department and the universal credit system.
> 
> ...



Rebecca's mother does not want her daughter's identity to be disclosed until the inquest. She has asked the coroner to investigate the role the DWP and universal credit system played in Rebecca's death

*not their real names

Woman took her own life after trauma caused by daily demands of universal credit

This is the stress they lay onto disabled and ill people:



> She wouldn’t even allow her parents to pay the bill in case DWP saw the payment in her bank account and treated it as income.


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## seeformiles (Nov 24, 2022)

A friend of mine killed himself 3 weeks ago. His note despaired the state of the world, the rise of the right, the cost of living and the increasing inability to cover his basic day to day costs esp, rent, heating and food. I know his mental health was not the best but it was almost like he’d lost faith in human nature itself. Whether this is the right place for this post I do not know but, at the funeral yesterday, watching his very elderly parents touch their child’s coffin for the last time was the most heartbreaking thing I’ve seen for a long time. Mrs SFM and I are in shock.


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## CNT36 (Nov 24, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> A friend of mine killed himself 3 weeks ago. His note despaired the state of the world, the rise of the right, the cost of living and the increasing inability to cover his basic day to day costs esp, rent, heating and food. I know his mental health was not the best but it was almost like he’d lost faith in human nature itself. Whether this is the right place for this post I do not know but, at the funeral yesterday, watching his very elderly parents touch their child’s coffin for the last time was the most heartbreaking thing I’ve seen for a long time. Mrs SFM and I are in shock.


That's shit mate. RIP. Really shit.


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## seeformiles (Nov 24, 2022)

CNT36 said:


> That's shit mate. RIP. Really shit.


Thank you everybody - I mean that most sincerely. It really makes a difference.


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## Dystopiary (Nov 24, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> A friend of mine killed himself 3 weeks ago. His note despaired the state of the world, the rise of the right, the cost of living and the increasing inability to cover his basic day to day costs esp, rent, heating and food. I know his mental health was not the best but it was almost like he’d lost faith in human nature itself. Whether this is the right place for this post I do not know but, at the funeral yesterday, watching his very elderly parents touch their child’s coffin for the last time was the most heartbreaking thing I’ve seen for a long time. Mrs SFM and I are in shock.


What a horrible shock that must have been. I'm so sorry.


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