# Android tablets and other devices



## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

The iPad competitors are starting to look very nice. Of course, Archos has been making things in this shape for years, but they're an awful hardware company, and they don't pay Google the license fee for the Android App store. They will never compete. And there's loads of cheap Chinese things.

This is the first (real) device I've seen that looks up to snuff







http://www.reghardware.com/2010/09/02/samsung_galaxy_tab_vodafone/

Comparable specs to the ipad, but with added SD slot. Only a 7" screen though - I haven't seen anything with a 10" screen yet.

I'm very very happy with my ipad - I think it's a fantastic device and the tablet fits in very well with the lounge. But it's apple, and it has the apple drawbacks (cost, restrictions). Those of you who don't like apple, are you tempted by an Android tablet?


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## Citizen66 (Sep 2, 2010)

Not now I have a net book, no. I had an archos 7 and its biggest fault was it was trying to be too many things. But the things I wanted it for it did well: playing films on the move and playing music in flac format. But my net book can do those things and more.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

It will be very interesting to see what price and battery life are like.


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## Macabre (Sep 2, 2010)

I'll be sorely tempted by this.  The contract on my HTC Magic with Vodafone is up in a few months, just not sure if this is too big to be a phone replacement.  I'd have to wear a man-bag constantly to carry it.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

it's not a phone


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> it's not a phone


 
Are you sure about that?


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

Ok, it can be used as a phone, but it is not primarily a phone. Far too big.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2010)

It's tempting, because I use Android/GMail/GCal/GDocs for the vast bulk of my day to day tasks.

I'm still not convinced by the tablet format though...


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2010)

That said, if someone come up with a decent dual channel audio interface for it so I can run proper RTA/FFT audio analysis software on it I'd buy one like a shot.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

The Samsung Galaxy Tab looks pretty good althouh pricing is yet to be announced. 

Viewsonic have just announced their Android ViewPad 7 tablet which comes with 3G, video calling, USB port, Wi-Fi and GPS, plus a microSD slot and undercuts the iPad at just £350.






http://www.wirefresh.com/viewsonic-android-viewpad-7-tablet-heading-to-the-uk-for-350/

I expect Apple to come under fierce competition from Android, with the Android platform eventually emerging the winner because of its sharper pricing and wider availability.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

Any 10" ones yet? Typing on a small screen like that isn't going to be as nice...


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Any 10" ones yet? Typing on a small screen like that isn't going to be as nice...


There's loads in the wings, although I'm not convinced that typing on a 7" screen will be any better/worse than on a 10" screen.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/31/msi-windpad-110-a-10-inch-tegra-2-powered-android-tablet/

This one dual boots with Windows 7! http://news.softpedia.com/news/Dual-Boot-10-ViewSonic-Tablet-Previewed-154800.shtml


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## stupid dogbot (Sep 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Ok, it can be used as a phone, but it is not primarily a phone. Far too big.


 
I look forward to seeing them pressed to people's heads soon.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I look forward to seeing them pressed to people's heads soon.


My mate bought the Dell Slate and actually uses it as a phone. It looks well daft.

Mind you, I'd rather have the option than not on a tablet, and you can always use headphones/Bluetooth.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2010)

editor said:


> I expect Apple to come under fierce competition from Android, with the Android platform eventually emerging the winner because of its sharper pricing and wider availability.


 
I don't think there's going to be a "winner" as such, we'll just end up with the whole  Mac vs Pc thing again. Those who can justify the premium for Apples slickness/lifestyle aspect will do so, the rest of us will end up with an Android device that costs half the price but isn't quite as polished round the edges.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't think there's going to be a "winner" as such, we'll just end up with the whole  Mac vs Pc thing again. Those who can justify the premium for Apples slickness/lifestyle aspect will do so, the rest of us will end up with an Android device that costs half the price but isn't quite as polished round the edges.


 I meant winner in terms of the most unit sales.


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## magneze (Sep 2, 2010)

This one looks good. I've got a Galaxy S and am really impressed with Samsung kit ATM. Interesting that it'll be Android 2.2. Seems like Samsung are releasing the hardware before the software is really ready. For example, the Galaxy S has 512MB which isn't addressable until Android 2.2 (coming later this month) and it seems that this tablet will have 2.2, rather than 3.0 which is meant to be the tablet release. Maybe their strategy is to get the geeks excited before going mass market ...


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

Really hope there is no winner, would be good to see 2 or 3 different platforms, all with very healthy market share.

As for price, expect Apple to maintain a premium but I dont think we'll see competing devices with comparable spec cost only half as much as apples offerings.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2010)

elbows said:


> I dont think we'll see competing devices with comparable spec cost only half as much as apples offerings.


 
I don't see why not, look at Mac vs PC


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't see why not, look at Mac vs PC


 
yeah, but their margins are much tighter in the mobile products. also, specs aren't everything.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> specs aren't everything.


 
Absolutely, but I can see us ending up with a good healthy marketplace, one with a range of prices/options/levels, which can only be a good thing. If there is a place for tablet computers the last thing we need is for them to be a premium/lifestyle product.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

Totally agree.


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## Idaho (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm not really sure why you would need a tablet, a computer and a phone.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

Right on cue, Toshiba have just announced their 10" Folio 100 tablet.
http://www.wirefresh.com/toshiba-toshibas-folio-100-10-incher-joins-the-android-tablet-party/

The Galaxy looks better.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I'm not really sure why you would need a tablet, a computer and a phone.


Make it around £100 and it can replace the remote controls in my living room and be handy for web surfing, music control, emailing, TV listings browsing, Twitter and chat. I'm in!


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## Idaho (Sep 2, 2010)

For a £100 it's basically a very fancy remote control/media control for your front room. I can see that. But that isn't really what they are being marketed for and that kind of functionality isn't there yet.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

Techradar have done a Samsung galaxy vs iPad comparison. Ut makes the Samsung the winner, although it seems a tad daft seeing as it hasn't been released yet.

I think the price point will be a huge factor though. No matter how you spin it, the iPad is a luxury item and for many, hard to justify.

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...bile-phones/samsung-galaxy-tab-vs-ipad-713944


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## Idaho (Sep 2, 2010)

With a Desire and a home computer, I can't really imagine any price point where I could justify it. £50?


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 2, 2010)

I didn't really 'get' the place for a tablet until I got an iPad. It's a very, very useful format.

Being an iPhone user, and having tried Android, I'm happy with having the iPad now rather than seeing how the Galaxy matches up, though it was a consideration.

As with the iPhone, it's all about the range and accessibility of the apps.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

Price point will certainly be a factor, and will it be available without a contract?

Software and content could be another big issue, we still have to wait and see how the competition do in this regard, android is getting there but not quite there yet (in terms of 3rd party stuff and ease of buying content for consumption).

As for battery life, I think this is really important for tablets and I have some serious doubts about whether Samsung have got this right. They are quoting 7 hours, which is not too bad, maybe an hour or so less than the ideal, but will it turn out to be true? Give it weighs half as much as an iPad, and I dont know how efficiently it decodes the various video formats, I certainly have some concerns. If it only lasts 5 hours or less under typical usage conditions then its a fail in my book.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

Very true re: battery life. The 10 hours quoted for the ipad is a real number - not having to worry about the battery, regardless of what I'm using it for, is key to my attitude to it. It's one of the major things that differentiates it from a laptop (along with the weight/size, instant on and loungability)


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

elbows said:


> Price point will certainly be a factor, and will it be available without a contract?
> 
> Software and content could be another big issue, we still have to wait and see how the competition do in this regard, android is getting there but not quite there yet (in terms of 3rd party stuff and ease of buying content for consumption).


After coming from the iPhone 3GS to the Android, I can say that just about everything most users would need is on the Android platform. I managed to get a near identical line up of apps on my HTC phone of equal quality, and apart from a small niche of apps it's a non issue - unless the user is primarily looking for a gaming platform.  Battery life is a biggie tough.

The Samsung is considerably lighter than the iPad which I'd prefer as I found it too heavy to be comfortable to hold for long.


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## stupid dogbot (Sep 2, 2010)

editor said:


> My mate bought the Dell Slate and actually uses it as a phone. It looks well daft.
> 
> Mind you, I'd rather have the option than not on a tablet, and you can always use headphones/Bluetooth.



As did a colleague of mine. Bit much.

As for the other, totally agree.


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## Macabre (Sep 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> it's not a phone


 
I'd don't see why it can't be use with hands free without looking daft, it's how I mostly use my mobile anyway.  The Tab looks like it will be a good size to slip into a hoodie's pouch too.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 2, 2010)

editor said:


> After coming from the iPhone 3GS to the Android, I can say that just about everything most users would need is on the Android platform. I managed to get a near identical line up of apps on my HTC phone of equal quality, and apart from a small niche of apps it's a non issue - unless the user is primarily looking for a gaming platform.  Battery life is a biggie tough.
> 
> The Samsung is considerably lighter than the iPad which I'd prefer as I found it too heavy to be comfortable to hold for long.


 
It was partly the games that swayed me, but there was (at the time, 3 or 4 months ago) a very tangible gap between iPhone apps and Android apps.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

editor said:


> The Samsung is considerably lighter than the iPad which I'd prefer as I found it too heavy to be comfortable to hold for long.


 
Yes the weight of the iPad was an early concern of mine too. I would still like it to weigh less for sure, although its proven quite easy to adapt to holding it in ways that negate the weight issue, resting it on a partially folded leg for example. So as it turns out the battery life is in many ways more important, and I fear too many manufacturers will get this balancing act wrong.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

I've embedded a shaky video of the Galaxy in action on this page (I can't see how to embed it here sorry). http://www.wirefresh.com/samsung-galaxy-tab-7-android-powered-ipad-rival-gets-official/

It looks good. Very, very good. Need for Speed plays well too.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

As for 3rd party apps, even if I allow myself to believe that mobile apps for android are good enough compared to iphone ones, its too early to tell how android apps that are really designed for tablets will do. The number of iphone apps still far outweighs proper ipad apps, and not just because the iphone had a headstart, theres lots more work involved and a much smaller potential market, even considering how well the ipad has sold. Android will face the same thing, may do really well in this regard, but its just too early to tell until plenty of android tablets have been sold & hopefully developers get going in a big way.

There are enough decent iPad apps now which an be considered 'killer apps' for a range of users. Some great apps for consuming text & photographic content, some great photo manipulation apps, lots of real fun music creation stuff, some very pretty weather & stargazing apps, some great games but I feel theres a long way to go yet, potential only just starting to be explored really. I want to see more tablet platforms to encourage this stuff to move forwards, and I am fascinated to see whether tablet apps will get a lot more depth and functionality. In some ways 'casual' creative apps are a sensible fit for the platform, in the same way that casual games are, but that lack of depth sometimes leaves me feeling like I am just playing with a toy.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

An interesting Guardian article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/sep/02/tablet-computers-sweet-spot-screen-battery

Lots of ponderings about price, screen size, battery life, purpose of tablets in general, and ipads and the samsung specifically. Makes a good point about tablets being way more 'shareable'. I certainly think they fit better in some social settings than laptops or mobiles, I just have to wait till more people have one so I dont feel like such a tool when waving one around.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

Price fail, unless the following is wrong or the mobile carriers subsidise it heavily and people dont mind getting yet another contract:

http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=201135

£679.99 for the 16GB. Yuck, needed to be considerably cheaper than the iPad methinks, failed.

Im also fascinated to see what happens in terms of screen-size that customers most like in the long run. The video of the galaxy made it look more like a large phone to me, and I wouldnt want an ipad with a screen any smaller than it has at present. But I can see reasons why people may be happier witha  screen a few inches smaller. Aspect ratio another interesting issue, I questioned the iPad having a 4:3 instead of widescreen ratio, but for most of the things Im doing with the iPad it turns out that 4:3 makes sense, to me at least.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2010)

Oh dear

http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=201135

16GB, 3G - £680

I hope that's a typo or something


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## magneze (Sep 2, 2010)

Oh dear. Yeah that's price fail if right.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 2, 2010)

That price can't be right, Samsung aren't that stupid. It has to be prices around 2/3 of the iPad to be competitive I think.

I would love one, for me the size is just right. The iPad is slightly too big to hold comfortably in one hand, and this looks fine. I'd wait a while though, for two reasons. Firstly, I'd want to ensure that a decent note taking app that could easily sync with windows or save files as .txt or .doc was available (is this already on Android? I don't know), and secondly I want to know that I can root it and tether it to my phone so I don't have two seperate data contracts.

For brief note taking and calendar checking/scheduling in meetings this would be perfect.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Oh dear
> 
> http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=201135
> 
> ...


Expansys often come up with wild prices for unreleased products, and seeing as Samsung haven't released the price yet, I wouldn't put too much store with this figure.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 2, 2010)

editor said:


> Expansys often come up with wild prices for unreleased products, and seeing as Samsung haven't released the price yet, I wouldn't put too much store with this figure.


 
The pricing came from Heise Online apparently: 




			
				heise Online said:
			
		

> But even without it, the Galaxy Tab is no bargain: €800 is the price tag on the contract-free 16 Gbyte variant, which is the same price as Apple's iPad with 3G UMTS version with 64 Gbytes.



I've never heard of them, so I'm assuming it's bollocks.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 2, 2010)

One of the problems with the Archos 5 and 7 was that soon after buying it youtube ceased to work. Everyone on the Archos fan forums were pissing and moaning about why Archos couldn't just write a firmware update upgrading to flash 10. Eventually one of their boffins replied and explained that the problem wasn't with Archos but with Adobe who had yet to upgrade the Flash Lite software that handheld devices use to be compatible with Flash 10. If I try to connect to youtube with my mobile phone I get the same problem. So it's something to bear in mind when forking out a bit of money for one of these devices that it's only as good as the current software is and not always up to date.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> That price can't be right, Samsung aren't that stupid. It has to be prices around 2/3 of the iPad to be competitive I think.


 
The price we've got could be wrong, but even so I dont think Samsung will be able to make it 2/3 the price of an ipad and leave enough profit for themselves, their distributors and the end retailers. Mobile subsidies will come into play too.

Looking at battery life again, I believe the iPad has about 6600 mAh capacity compared to 4000 mAh for this Samsung.  They better hope the screen draws a bit less power and things like video & 3d are very energy efficient or else its in trouble.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 2, 2010)

~2/3 battery life, ~2/3 screen size. It'll probably be comparable.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

No because there are many things besides the screen that use a fair bit of power.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

This bbc video gives me a better sense of its size, and relative to the iPad too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11169400

My what an interesting mix of good points and shortsighted horseshit they talk in this short vid.


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## elbows (Sep 2, 2010)

I can certainly see the appeal of a device that size from that vid, its improved my opinion of it a tad, though Im still v.concerned about battery & price.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 2, 2010)

Sitting here using a 10" iPad I don't think a 7" screen makes a lot of sense for me. Might as well just use my iPhone. The ipad doesn't feel too big for me. But then I am quite big myself.


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## Idaho (Sep 2, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Sitting here using a 10" iPad I don't think a 7" screen makes a lot of sense for me. Might as well just use my iPhone. The ipad doesn't feel too big for me. But then I am quite big myself.


 


ChrisFilter said:


> I didn't really 'get' the place for a tablet until I got an iPad. It's a very, very useful format.
> 
> Being an iPhone user, and having tried Android, I'm happy with having the iPad now rather than seeing how the Galaxy matches up, though it was a consideration.
> 
> As with the iPhone, it's all about the range and accessibility of the apps.


 
So you just went out and spunked loads of cash on a gadget that you didn't know the point of?


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## editor (Sep 7, 2010)

The Samsung Galaxy Tab seems to be picking up very positive reviews:


> Rest assured, though, we managed to fiddle about enough to know that this is no mere “big phone”, as some have taken to call it. The Galaxy Tab is a game changer. Literally.
> 
> The iPhone (and Galaxy S) are too small to compete with Sony’s PSP, the iPad too big. The Galaxy Tab, however, as Goldilocks would say, “is just right”. Its 7-inch screen, in a device measuring 190.09 x 120.45 x 11.98mm and weighing 380g, is perfect to render fine details and give enough play area for fast action games and the like, while the device is manoeuvrable and comfortably fits into both hands without you motioning like you’re fitting a new window pane.
> 
> ...



Looks like it'll all be down to the pricing then....


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## grit (Sep 7, 2010)

editor said:


> The Samsung Galaxy Tab seems to be picking up very positive reviews:
> 
> 
> Looks like it'll all be down to the pricing then....


 
With a price rumoured to be 700 quid, they can keep it.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2010)

grit said:


> With a price rumoured to be 700 quid, they can keep it.


That's very much unconfirmed.


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## elbows (Sep 7, 2010)

I find it hard to consider that a review, more a preview, it certainly adds nothing to the questions about the battery life.

Also not available without contract if they are correct.



> The only real worry is the cost. Rumours have the price at around £700 (thanks to a leaked page on Amazon around the press conference). However, Samsung tells us that it won't be available out of contract (not yet, at least), and that final pricing will be determined by the carriers themselves.


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## elbows (Sep 7, 2010)

And dont get me wrong, I really want to see some Android tablets succeed, I just think its too early to be sure about this one.


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## Scaggs (Sep 10, 2010)

Will the Galaxy tab have GPS too? Didn't see it mentioned in the review.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2010)

Scaggs said:


> Will the Galaxy tab have GPS too? Didn't see it mentioned in the review.


Yes. 

http://www.geo2web.com/2010/09/05/samsung-galaxy-tab-does-gps/


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## Scaggs (Sep 10, 2010)

Better start saving then.


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## grit (Sep 10, 2010)

I remember arguing with editor about this a while ago...

Android not for tablets.

http://www.dailytech.com/Google+Say...ets+May+Block+App+Market+Use/article19592.htm


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## magneze (Sep 10, 2010)

Android 3.0 is meant to be the tablet-friendly release isn't it?


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## grit (Sep 10, 2010)

magneze said:


> Android 3.0 is meant to be the tablet-friendly release isn't it?


 
Chrome OS is the recommended platform.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2010)

grit said:


> I remember arguing with editor about this a while ago...
> 
> Android not for tablets.
> 
> http://www.dailytech.com/Google+Say...ets+May+Block+App+Market+Use/article19592.htm


No, Google say it's not for tablets with form-factors of *approximately 10-inches and larger*. The Samsung has a 7" screen.


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## magneze (Sep 10, 2010)

IMO Google are worried that they've accidentally killed ChromeOS before birth because Android has been so successful.


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## oicur0t (Sep 17, 2010)

Galaxy tab price on contract is rumoured to be $200-$300 in the US


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## oicur0t (Sep 17, 2010)

Although it's running MeeGo, I'm intrigued by this http://wetab.mobi/en

But I think that one's too expensive for sure.


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## magneze (Sep 17, 2010)

Oh, is MeeGo actually working now? Last time I looked it was booting into a terminal!


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## Scaggs (Sep 20, 2010)

Galaxy tab more expensive than the ipad

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/samsung-galaxy-tab-more-expensive-than-an-ipad-50000665/


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## editor (Sep 20, 2010)

I'll wait until the pricing is officially announced.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2010)

Meanwhile, Next are flogging an Android 10.1" tablet for £180! Specs are good but battery life is crap.

http://www.wirefresh.com/next-uk-offer-android-10-6-tablet-for-just-180/


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## elbows (Sep 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Meanwhile, Next are flogging an Android 10.1" tablet for £180! Specs are good but battery life is crap.
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/next-uk-offer-android-10-6-tablet-for-just-180/


 
Resistive screen likely also shite in order to reach that low price.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2010)

It won't be great, but it's cheap enough to consider as a lounge surfing device.


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## paolo (Sep 30, 2010)

Screens are measured diagonally, unless there's been some break in convention I've not noticed. So...

10.6" wide, housing a 10.1" screen, with bezel? Something not right there.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Screens are measured diagonally, unless there's been some break in convention I've not noticed. So...
> 
> 10.6" wide, housing a 10.1" screen, with bezel? Something not right there.


Maybe it's 10.6" with the bezel.


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## paolo (Sep 30, 2010)

Actually, thinking about it, I might have made a basic geometry error!

Prolly all correct.


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## Crispy (Oct 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It won't be great, but it's cheap enough to consider as a lounge surfing device.


 
And crappy enough to piss you off and leave it gathering dust on the coffee table


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 1, 2010)

How long is it going to be before we stop getting breathless reports that anyone making a lookalike tablet has made an IPAD KILLER? How long did it take before any touchscreen phone without many buttons was an IPHONE KILLER? Has that stopped yet, come to think of it?


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## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> And crappy enough to piss you off and leave it gathering dust on the coffee table


And you know this before you've even seen it?! 

I'm sure the iPad/Samsung would be a nicer experience, but for a lot of people such high end luxury items are out of their reach, and I wouldn't be surprised if this affordable offering proves perfectly adequate for their needs.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2010)

3 hours battery life is shit no matter how cheap the device is....


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## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 3 hours battery life is shit no matter how cheap the device is....


For sure, but if you've never had a tablet before and only want it for some sofa surfing or browsing in your local cafe, then it might do the job just fine. After all, most cheap laptops have similarly brief battery lives.


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## paolo (Oct 1, 2010)

You could write the blurb for the Amstrad Emailer.

"If you're just looking for easy email, hey it'll be just great!"

Let's face it, this sounds like a dog. Dead in 12 months.


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## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You could write the blurb for the Amstrad Emailer.
> 
> "If you're just looking for easy email, hey it'll be just great!"
> 
> Let's face it, this sounds like a dog. Dead in 12 months.


So you've already tried this tablet then?

You're sounding awfully snobbish here, you know. Not everyone can afford £600 for luxury gadgets, and sometimes cheaper things can serve their needs just fine.


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## paolo (Oct 1, 2010)

None of us have tried this tablet, not you, not me.

It's why I said it "sounds like" a dog.


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## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> None of us have tried this tablet, not you, not me.
> 
> It's why I said it "sounds like" a dog.


It's just £180. It sounds pretty good value to me.


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## paolo (Oct 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It's just £180. It sounds pretty good value to me.


 
Let us know how you get on with it.


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## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Let us know how you get on with it.


So exactly why do you think it "sounds like a dog" and will be "dead in 12 months"?

I see a cheap device that might introduce the less well off to tablet computing. It runs an excellent operating system, has a low budget but reasonably sized screen and - presumably - access to thousands of apps, so why is it a "dog"?

What are you comparing it with?


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2010)

Yeah this doesn't convince me it's gonna be a big seller...


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## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah this doesn't convince me it's gonna be a big seller...


I don't think it's going to be a massive seller either, but I can see some people being happy to be able to get Android tablet functionality at a cheap price.


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## paolo (Oct 1, 2010)

editor said:


> So exactly why do you think it "sounds like a dog" and will be "dead in 12 months"?


 
Why don't you want one yourself?


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## Crispy (Oct 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It's just £180. It sounds pretty good value to me.


 
Value has a quality component. Resistive screen, 3 hour battery are not good signs of quality.


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## magneze (Oct 1, 2010)

TBF, I can't really see someone who buys their tech gadgets in Next worrying too much about either of them. It clearly a play for the Christmas market to keep the kids occupied whilst the parents sleep off the turkey.


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## elbows (Oct 1, 2010)

Turning a blind eye to shite specs in the quest for something with more flexibility and better price than Apples offerings misses the very essence of what makes apples tablet any good. Im still glad there are alternatives, even if they suck in many ways, but I dont see them amounting to much from what Ive read so far.

For there are still big questions about the purpose of tablets in peoples lives, despite all the hype and the charge to release alternatives, it is still not a safe bet that the tablet form is a winner. Price can help, but if the experience is crap then it amounts to nout.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It's just £180. It sounds pretty good value to me.


 
Cheap doesn't necessarily equal good.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Value has a quality component. Resistive screen, 3 hour battery are not good signs of quality.


That's like comparing a bog standard Nokia with an high quality smartphone. For some people, a cheapo Nokia does the job just fine. I doubt if buyers of a £180 tablet will be expecting all the slick bills and whistles for £180, but that doesn't mean it won't be useful to them.

After all, not everyone can afford expensive luxury tech items like the iPad, so a cheap Android tablet may prove a nice substitute. Less capable and slick of course, but still useful.

I'll wait for some proper reviews before dismissing this tablet out of hand.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 1, 2010)

I think the most important thing about a device like that to me would be the build quality. How long will it last?


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I think the most important thing about a device like that to me would be the build quality. How long will it last?


 It actually looks reasonably sturdy, but, again, I'll withhold judgement until someone's had a proper play on the thing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm not sure the type of people that buy cheap mobiles are going to be interested in a tablet cheap or otherwise tbh...


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm not sure the type of people that buy cheap mobiles are going to be interested in a tablet cheap or otherwise tbh...


Whyever not? Some people just haven't got the cash for the top of the line stuff.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Whyever not? Some people just haven't got the cash for the top of the line stuff.


 
It's not cash I'm getting at. It's interest/ inclination. Really don't see those people I know who don't care about having more than a standard phone will care about owning a tablet...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It actually looks reasonably sturdy, but, again, I'll withhold judgement until someone's had a proper play on the thing.


 
Yes, it does.

I offer no judgement, I promise. I reckon if you can get a couple of years out of it for that price, it'd be a decent buy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2010)

What's wrong with the corner on the photo, the plastic looks misshapen...


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

And here's another £179 Android tablet!
http://www.wirefresh.com/android-powered-7-disgo-tablet-6000-yours-for-179/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's wrong with the corner on the photo, the plastic looks misshapen...


 
It's probably not a release version, or a mock up.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 1, 2010)

Re: The Next tablet - on this Register thread: http://forums.reghardware.com/forum/1/2010/09/30/next_android_tablet/


> It is truly, absolutely, biblically horrible. I only bought it for a laugh, so I wasn't too disappointed, but the response from the "touch" screen is completely unusable - inaccurate in position, completely ignoring 50% of pokes, and the view is like looking through a smoked window at a computer in another house.
> 
> Still, it's convinced me that Android will work for a tablet, so now I'm just waiting on one with decent hardware.
> 
> GJC


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Re: The Next tablet - on this Register thread: http://forums.reghardware.com/forum/1/2010/09/30/next_android_tablet/


I didn't think it had been released yet. It was only announced on the 29th Sept.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

It seems to be a rebadged Zenithink ZT-180 tablet.

Here's a review:



> So what is it like?
> 
> To be perfectly honest, it's no iPad but I bought it knowing that. In fact, even the seller said that. As a web browser, it's perfect. I can work through my products and have managed to work an extra 8 hours over the last week that I ordinarily wouldn't have managed. I've only had the toy for a week so can't really say whether this is a standard figure or whether it suffers from "new toy novelty" syndrome.
> 
> ...



Here's a vid review;


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2010)

So it's shit then?


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So it's shit then?


It's reasonably good at some things, adequate at some functions and pretty awful at others. 

However, it's at a price many can afford, so if all they're looking for is the basic functions it appears to do well, then it seems a reasonable purchase.


----------



## elbows (Oct 1, 2010)

I call a screen that actually responds and is readable a basic function, but maybe thats just me.

Its a steaming pile.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 2, 2010)

Using an iPad now for the first time. It's only fractionally easier to use than my desire. A slightly bigger screen and an android/similar os and I might go for a tablet. Using this iPad at the kitchen table has provided proof of concept for me personally. The just have to make a decent non-Mac one. I hate this stupid os.


----------



## stowpirate (Oct 4, 2010)

Are these cheapskate tablets any good and can you upgrade them to Android 2.2 with flash support? 

Here is a typical one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7-Google-Andr...659?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a5f3ae21b


----------



## teccuk (Oct 4, 2010)

So so far it looks like the best affordable Android Pad is from... Next?!

Really need an android one for living room, maps, web, spotify.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

I don't know about 'best'

*shrug* you get what you pay for - be prepared for creaky build quality, resistive screen, poor battery life, and some geeky fiddling to make it run well.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

What 'geeky fiddling' would be needed for maps, web and spotify?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

editor said:


> What 'geeky fiddling' would be needed for maps, web and spotify?


 
I was speaking generally. It should be fine for basic uses.


----------



## Scaggs (Oct 4, 2010)

stowpirate said:


> Are these cheapskate tablets any good and can you upgrade them to Android 2.2 with flash support?
> 
> Here is a typical one:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7-Google-Andr...659?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a5f3ae21b


 
There's some reviews here.
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f63/apad-irobot-35026/index2.html


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I was speaking generally. It should be fine for basic uses.


So where would the 'geeky fiddling' come in to play for most Android tablet users?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

> i got a cheap knockoff mid apad from ebay in the mail yesterday, shipped 126$ from china 3 day ups. heres my specs:
> 
> 1. Very pretty, until I touched it and got fingerprints all over it
> 2. Screen is resistant and typing is pretty much impossible - they keyboard response is about 1/8" off from where i touch the key.
> ...



Exactly what I would expect. If you plan to use a tablet regularly and enjoyably, get an ipad or an android tablet from a reputable company.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

editor said:


> So where would the 'geeky fiddling' come in to play for most Android tablet users?


 
If the device has shoddy specifications or an outdated version of Android, installing apps could be a pain.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Exactly what I would expect. If you plan to use a tablet regularly and enjoyably, get an ipad or an android tablet from a reputable company.


Those comments relate to a _*£79*_ Chinese knock off tablet. At that price, I'm amazed the thing even turns on.

Not everyone can afford luxury items like the iPad, and for those people the better cheaper tablets may prove perfectly adequate - and I doubt very much if there'll be much geeky fiddling involved either. Android really is simple to use and all but the nastiest tablets run Android 2.1 upwards.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

Doesn't need to be luxury, just not no-name chinese knockoffs. I'll happily eat my words if I see one of these next tablets in the flesh and it's a nice machine, but I seriously doubt it.

Android is a fine bit of software, but manufacturers can't just assemble a machine from the parts bin and shove it on.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Doesn't need to be luxury, just not no-name chinese knockoffs. I'll happily eat my words if I see one of these next tablets in the flesh and it's a nice machine, but I seriously doubt it.
> 
> Android is a fine bit of software, but manufacturers can't just assemble a machine from the parts bin and shove it on.


The Next tablet will be, at best, adequate for basic tablet functions, but that may be ample for some user's needs. No one's arguing that a £79 knock off from China is going to be anything other than shit, but some of the cheaper tablets (i.e. ones considerably cheaper than the iPad) may prove to be decent enough performers. 

Not everyone needs a 12 hour battery life, and seem people may prefer the price and operating flexibility that comes with a non-closed device like an Android tablet. 

As for me, I can't justify the huge expenditure of an iPad, so I'm quite interested in a cheaper Android tablet. It seems that you're happy with your iPad, so I can't imagine anything priced less is going to interest you much here.


----------



## teccuk (Oct 4, 2010)

Uhm. Thanks guys. I'll use this thread to figure out which one i think


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

teccuk said:


> Uhm. Thanks guys. I'll use this thread to figure out which one i think


To be honest, I'd wait a little while. There's going to be a ton of tablets coming out over the coming weeks, and I reckon there'll definitely be some good ones amongst the rubbish.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

editor said:


> As for me, I can't justify the huge expenditure of an iPad, so I'm quite interested in a cheaper Android tablet. It seems that you're happy with your iPad, so I can't imagine anything priced less is going to interest you much here.



Like I said



Crispy said:


> If you plan to use a tablet regularly and enjoyably, get an ipad or an android tablet from a reputable company.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Like I said


Ah yes. "Get an iPad". Bang on the nail for a discussion about affordable Android tablets.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

*OR*


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> *OR*


Or what? Get something that most definitely_ isn't_ an Android tablet, runs a totally different OS, and costs up to three times as much?


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

Back on topic - and not something I'd recommend for anything but the most basic of jobs - is this ultra cheap Android tablet.






Here's what you get for your *£85* (!!):

CPU: ARM9 -VIA8505+* 400MHz
OS: Google android 1.7.4 
Memory: 128M
Storage: 2Gb
LCD: 7" 16:9* TouchPanel 
Resolution ratio: 800*480 QVGA
WIFI: WiFi 802.11b/g
USB Port: YES
SD Card Port: YES
Earphone: YES
Built in Stereo Speaker: YES
Built-in Camera: 0.3 M/Pixel
Battery: 7.4V 1800mAh
Stand-by time: 3Hrs
Size: 195*120*16 mm
Codecs Supported: H263 /avi

http://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/shop/detail.asp?ProductID=6381


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 4, 2010)

What the hell is Android 1.7.4? Did they just make that up? Android went from 1.6 (Donut) to 2.0/2.1 (Eclair).

Also, 128mb RAM? ROFL, the first Android phone, the mighty G1 had more than that, as do even the weakest current handsets. This thing will be so sluggish as to be unusable.

It upsets me that shit devices like this are being released, Android is such an excellent platform, but if this is someones first impression then they'll be put off for life.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Or what? Get something that most definitely_ isn't_ an Android tablet, runs a totally different OS, and costs up to three times as much?


 
Yes, that's what I meant when I said OR. It's a choice and I wasn't making any value call.

Why do you always have to take these tech threads so fucking seriously? I don't want a fight, so why attack?


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2010)

Takes Apple too seriously at the very least, that corporation sure has brought out the dark side of the force in this one eh  Too much 'my enemies enemy is my friend' too, leading to friendships with bad tablets that will end with inevitable disappointment.

I want successful cheaper alternatives and a burgeoning tablet market. But I wont give those devices & companies auditioning for this role an easy ride, they have to be real good to beat the Apple beast, and I cant turn a blind eye to iffy specs or jump onpreviews as proof that these alternative tablets are going to kick ass straight away.

Id like more recognition of the possible value of having a device that doesnt cause blood pressure problems and swearing. If I add a £1 to total cost of ownership per sweary rage incident when trying to enjoy using some of these other tablets, I think a lot of them would soon look suitably uncompetitive against the iPad. 

Anyway Im sure Im just as stuck to my opinions as anyone else in particular that I am having a dig at in this post, so please gods of tech give us some decent android tablets so we can take some of the pain out of this situation before I bore myself to tears, let alone anyone else


----------



## magneze (Oct 5, 2010)

Could be a while - Android 3 tablets aren't expected until 2011. Anything released before then will have a smartphone-centric UI.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

I'm waiting for whatever HTC come out with.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 5, 2010)

I can understand the editor's desperation to back any non Apple horse in this race, no matter that it's a donkey.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2010)

Apparently Next  have released an Android tablet for £180 which, well, is just a big squarish turd it seems: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/05/next-tablet-hands-on1


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apparently Next  have released an Android tablet for £180 which, well, is just a big squarish turd it seems: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/05/next-tablet-hands-on1


 


editor said:


> Meanwhile, Next are flogging an Android 10.1" tablet for £180! Specs are good but battery life is crap.
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/next-uk-offer-android-10-6-tablet-for-just-180/


 
Also, I believe Next are selling a tablet?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

But yes, as suspected, it's a stinker.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2010)

Well I was hardly going to read the thread or anything was I?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I can understand the editor's desperation to back any non Apple horse in this race, no matter that it's a donkey.


Yes, you can easily see that 'desperation' by the way I described the last cheap tablet as something "I wouldn't recommend for anything but the most basic of jobs".


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

Barely seems to manage even that, according to that guardian link!


----------



## Idaho (Oct 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Yes, you can easily see that 'desperation' by the way I described the last cheap tablet as something "I wouldn't recommend for anything but the most basic of jobs".


 
Why not just say that it's a pile of toss?


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why not just say that it's a pile of toss?


Because I've never actually touched the thing or read a review about it. 

How about you?


----------



## fogbat (Oct 5, 2010)

There's a review link further up the page: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/05/next-tablet-hands-on1


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

I suspect he read the review linked by FM up there

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/05/next-tablet-hands-on1

And another article linked from there:

http://www.pda-247.com/wordpress/2010/10/next-10”-tablet-review/

It's a total dog that can't be recommended to anyone for any purpose.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I suspect he read the review linked by FM up there
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/05/next-tablet-hands-on1
> 
> ...


*NONE* of those refer to the Morgan tablet I was talking about. Try following the conversation.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

I beg your pardon, the next tablet was the last one mentioned on the thread, so I assumed

EDIT: Although the morgan one has even less RAM and CPU power, so I can't imagine the experience is much better.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

Personally I'd avoid any of the Android tablets until 3.0 comes along.

The moment HTC release one I have a feeling I'll be first in the queue


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Personally I'd avoid any of the Android tablets until 3.0 comes along.


 
That's certainly what LG are doing: LG puts Android tablet on hold, says Froyo not suitable


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I beg your pardon


That's quite OK. Everyone makes mistakes!

Now that the reviews have come in, I'm happy to accept that the Next tablet is a pile of cack. 

Sometimes you can be pleasantly surprised by cheap technology though, and I'm always willing to give it a go before casting my verdict.


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2010)

Are there any netbooks that are reasonably good devices for £180? Because Id be loathe to recommend anyone spend £180 on that Next turdlet.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> That's certainly what LG are doing: LG puts Android tablet on hold, says Froyo not suitable


 
Yep, all the rumours (and I've read the lot ) point to 3.0 being a significant revamp of Android, with specific tablet friendly features, as well as a major UI upgrade...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

Apparently landscape orientation is not even supported for the Home screen in 2.2


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Personally I'd avoid any of the Android tablets until 3.0 comes along.
> 
> The moment HTC release one I have a feeling I'll be first in the queue


The Samsung Galaxy Tab looks good, but the pricing seems insane.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

I've also come round to seeing the point of tablets a lot more, after playing a lot with a colleagues ipad last week. 

Pretty much the only thing stopping me from wanting an ipad now is the Apple/iTunes factor.


----------



## kyser_soze (Oct 5, 2010)

Ah, I see this thread is in fact the secret mods' forum...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Apparently landscape orientation is not even supported for the Home screen in 2.2


 
As it stands, no. I assume they're tweaking things somehow for the current crop of devices.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

editor said:


> The Samsung Galaxy Tab looks good, but the pricing seems insane.


 
It looke nice - very nice, but even as a rabid Android fanboi I can see the possible limitations with things as they stand now.

And yeah, the rumoured prices (have they confirmed anything yet?) are bonkers.


----------



## fogbat (Oct 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Apparently landscape orientation is not even supported for the Home screen in 2.2


 
Could always install Launcher Pro, and have it sorted through that.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Apparently landscape orientation is not even supported for the Home screen in 2.2


You what?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

editor said:


> You what?


 
Get your desire.

Go to the home screen.

Turn it on it's side.

See how the screen doesn't rotate.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Get your desire.
> 
> Go to the home screen.
> 
> ...


He's wrong. The Samsung's home screen does rotate. Look around 02:00 into this video.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

editor said:


> He's wrong. The Samsung's home screen does rotate.


 
It must be running some extra layer (similar to HTC Sense) then...

As I said, it's a lovely looking device, but I want to hang on until 3.0 to see what can really be done with the platform. That will be the "iPad" killer, or not...


----------



## Idaho (Oct 5, 2010)

If I was to get a tablet computer, I would want something bigger than the ipad. It seems more of a 'round the house' kind of machine, rather than something I would take out.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It must be running some extra layer (similar to HTC Sense) then...


Perhaps but the reviewer insists it's running a stock Android install (2:21 secs)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

Idaho said:


> If I was to get a tablet computer, I would want something bigger than the ipad. It seems more of a 'round the house' kind of machine, rather than something I would take out.



For me a combination of my desire (with it's Widi hotspot feature), plus a Wifi only pad of some sort is the ideal mobile solution.  Small, light, yet I'd be able to do pretty much everything I need, wherever I was.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Perhaps but the reviewer insists it's running a stock Android install (2:21 secs)


 
"Final units will have TouchWiz"

My guess is that unit is some sort of halfway thingy.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 5, 2010)

DSGi have confirmed the Galaxy Tab as retailing at £599, according to T3. That's killed it.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> DSGi have confirmed the Galaxy Tab as retailing at £599, according to T3. That's killed it.


Crazy pricing, although I expect it's going to be offered for free on network deals.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> DSGi have confirmed the Galaxy Tab as retailing at £599, according to T3. That's killed it.


 
stone dead. shame


----------



## magneze (Oct 5, 2010)

Why is it dead? High end Android smartphones are priced similar to the iPhone and have done fine.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

The ipad is cheaper.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

Hmm, on reflection "stone dead" is an exagaration.

It will struggle


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 5, 2010)

£599, shame - there's loads to like about it, perhaps it will find its own niche free from the hype of being the 'iPad slayer'.


----------



## magneze (Oct 5, 2010)

Hmm, I see. £70 more. There's a few more extra hardware features though, but I'd not want a tablet with a phone UI.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The ipad is cheaper.


Well, yes and no - it's widely expected that some networks will be offering the Samsung for free on contract, and it does offer some features that aren't available on the iPad. 



> The Galaxy Tab has two cameras -- a rear-facing 3.2-megapixel camera and a front-facing 1.3-megapixel camera for video chatting -- while the current models of the iPad have none. Samsung claims up to 7 hours of video playback for the Galaxy Tab; Apple says its iPad can last up to 10 hours.
> 
> In terms of software, the Galaxy Tab's Android 2.2 operating system gives the device a number of selling points Apple's iPad can't claim, including full-featured multitasking, support for Adobe Flash, and unrestricted access to applications (Apple is notorious for censoring all sorts of material -- ranging from political satire to swimsuit-clad women -- and also for banning apps that provide functions such as free tethering and customization of the operating system).
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/204779/samsung_galaxy_tab_vs_the_ipad_compare_for_yourself.html



That said, I've no doubt that the iPad will appear a far more attractive offering to most consumers, but I wouldn't put money on iOS being the dominant OS on tablets this time next year. 

So far we're mainly seeing rushed, cheap cash-in tablets, but I wouldn't be surprised to see attractive, well designed Android tablets offering feature sets every bit as good as the iPad - if not better - for less. 

Right now, I've no interest in paying Apple's or Samsung's high prices for what is essentially an attractive but not essential gadget, but show me a decent, mid priced Android tablet then I may be quids in. 

Here's an interesting face off between the two:
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...bile-phones/samsung-galaxy-tab-vs-ipad-713944


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see attractive, well designed Android tablets offering feature sets every bit as good as the iPad - if not better - for less.


 
I agree - just as happened with the iphone. Apple will continue to differentiate on integration with their other products and services, and on user experience, while other manufactures compete on features and price. Room in the market for both and competition is good


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2010)

The problem is that if you want a quality touchscreen etc, I dont think they can currently make the hardware & a profit and still have room to price it significantly lower than an iPad. Over time, or if you are happy with a screen a few inches smaller than the iPad, then maybe some people can achieve the 'mid price' of which editor speaks.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> DSGi have confirmed the Galaxy Tab as retailing at £599, according to T3. That's killed it.


 
Bonkers.

If any manufacturer thinks they can go up against Apple like that they're fools.


----------



## grit (Oct 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Bonkers.
> 
> If any manufacturer thinks they can go up against Apple like that they're fools.


 
Oh well thats the idea of buying one out the window, looks like the initial 700 rumoured price tag was pretty close.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Crazy pricing, although I expect it's going to be offered for free on network deals.


 
I'd certainly like to hope so, but they will be expensive for data only deals. Probably £30/24 months or £35/18 months. I know I certainly couldn't justify that alongside a similiarly priced mobile phone contract, and I earn about average for my age. Samsung may have priced themselves above their most interested demographic.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2010)

elbows said:


> The problem is that if you want a quality touchscreen etc, I dont think they can currently make the hardware & a profit and still have room to price it significantly lower than an iPad. Over time, or if you are happy with a screen a few inches smaller than the iPad, then maybe some people can achieve the 'mid price' of which editor speaks.


 
This is the thing - people were happy enough to say "oh overpriced Apple product" about the iPad, and let's be fair it *is* a lot of money, but it does actually cost a lot to make and retail a decent device. The daft idea that you can just add up the prices of the individual components and say "that's what it should cost" should have died when people started saying it about the iPhone, but it didn't.

It will be exactly the same process with tablets as with the iPhone I predict: for a while, people produce cheap crap knockoffs which look strangely similar but which nobody buys because they are cheap crap, and there are proprietorial knockoffs which are more expensive but which still nobody buys, then gradually manufacturers realise that it's not just that about selling something black and shiny and maybe they should make a _properly competing device with its own merits_. I'd _hope_ that this process will be faster than it has been for the iPhone.


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2010)

Well I think some competitors have a fairly good idea what they should be doing, they just struggle to get there quickly enough, or compromise on the wrong things. It should not take as long as it did for the iPhone, but it looks like there will be no shortage of failures in the meantime.

As for price, I assume competitors were dismayed when the iPad pricing came out, doesnt leave them much wiggle room, doesnt have the sort of Apple price premium relative to spec that, for example, mac laptops have. I think there is merit to looking at cost of components but people have to remember to add on a reasonable amount to cover software & other Apple costs, as well as some profit for Apple, distributors and retailers. The price of the Samsung does not surprise me at all, especially when I look at how much they charged for previous tablet-like devices such as the UMPC Samsung Q1.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2010)

I don't think everyone wants something to "compete" with the iPad - Apple haven't defined the only form tablets should take and I'd hate it if everyone just tried to produce near-identical clones of their device.

It's far too big and heavy for my tastes for starters and lacks too many useful features (like a camera, built in SD slot, USB slot etc) and most of all it's far too expensive for a non essential gizmo.

I'm far more interested in the smaller sized tablets like the Samsung Tab, and if they can bring the price down to something sensible, then that'll do me fine as a sofa-browsing/TV browsing device. 

Much as I'd like a 12 hour battery, I definitely don't need one, so I'd be happy to compromise lower specs in some areas for a more affordable package.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 6, 2010)

You can get decent netbooks for £230. How much would it cost to put that into a tablet form factor with a touchscreen. Another £100?

Another £400 just seems ridiculous to me.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2010)

Netbooks are all x86, though, so can't just be cut'n'shut into tablets unless you run windows on them (blech!), cos Android is ARM only (officially, anyway).

This doesn't rule out a decently-priced, well-made Android tablet. The hardware is not really the difficult bit.


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Netbooks are all x86, though, so can't just be cut'n'shut into tablets unless you run windows on them (blech!), cos Android is ARM only (officially, anyway).
> 
> This doesn't rule out a decently-priced, well-made Android tablet. The hardware is not really the difficult bit.



There's an ARM and a Leg joke in there somewhere. 

Thanks, didn't actually know that about Android.


----------



## ovaltina (Oct 6, 2010)

One of these cheopo tablets would be good hooked up to a USB hard drive and my stereo for streaming MP3s and spotify. I doubt it would last very long though.


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## editor (Oct 6, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> One of these cheopo tablets would be good hooked up to a USB hard drive and my stereo for streaming MP3s and spotify. I doubt it would last very long though.


That's kind of what I've been arguing. The cheapo tablets may be clunky beasts, but they may prove perfectly handy for some uses. Lovely though it is, Apple's expensive, super slick package is not what everyone needs.


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## grit (Oct 6, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Netbooks are all x86, though, so can't just be cut'n'shut into tablets unless you run windows on them (blech!), cos Android is ARM only (officially, anyway).
> 
> This doesn't rule out a decently-priced, well-made Android tablet. The hardware is not really the difficult bit.


 
To use x86 you are not restricted to windows ffs.


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## Crispy (Oct 6, 2010)

grit said:


> To use x86 you are not restricted to windows ffs.


 
Naturally. I was just being concise. Not that there's any really serious touch-oriented OS for x86 anyway.


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## Blagsta (Oct 6, 2010)

I keep seeing the thread title and thinking of Marvin with the pain in his diodes down his left side.


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## editor (Oct 7, 2010)

This one has surprisingly good specs for £250 and it's running 2.2 too.  If course the proof of the pudding comes when you get to play with the thing...



> The pricier Advent Vega is touted, “a quality and affordable tablet computer, brimming with features,” and looks a far better buy at £249.99 .
> 
> The specs are surprisingly good, with the Vega sporting a capacitive multi-touch 10.1” screen and a nVidia Tegra 2 dual core 1GHz processor in a slim 14mm body.
> 
> ...



They've also got a £130 model which I'm sure will be thoroughly horrid.


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## Crispy (Oct 7, 2010)

That's more like it!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2010)

Impressive specs for the money, will be interesting to see what it's actually like.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 7, 2010)

If you can tether it to your phone then its quite an attractive option.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> If you can tether it to your phone then its quite an attractive option.


 
No need to tether if you have a Desire, just turn Wifi hotspot on


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## grit (Oct 7, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Impressive specs for the money, will be interesting to see what it's actually like.


 
Where are you seeing the specs? I didnt notice anything.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 7, 2010)

grit said:


> Where are you seeing the specs? I didnt notice anything.


 


> capacitive multi-touch 10.1” screen and a nVidia Tegra 2 dual core 1GHz processor in a slim 14mm body.
> 
> Fitted with a a 1.3 megapixel camera and WiFi capability, the Vega runs the latest Android Froyo 2.2 operating system, and comes with a 4Gb SD memory card as standard.



It's not a lot, but that's the released specs so far.


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## grit (Oct 7, 2010)

cliche guevara said:


> It's not a lot, but that's the released specs so far.


 
The price seems to cheap, I'd want to see one handling video playback at a decent rate before committing. They do look interesting though


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2010)

grit said:


> Where are you seeing the specs? I didnt notice anything.


 
Try reading, it helps


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## grit (Oct 7, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Try reading, it helps


 
tl:dr


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## idioteque (Oct 7, 2010)

grit said:


> The price seems to cheap, I'd want to see one handling video playback at a decent rate before committing. They do look interesting though


 
*Edit:* cliche guevara posting

I don't think the RAM has been mentioned yet, but I'd imagine it would be fairly decent to accompany that processor.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 10, 2010)

Galaxy Tab to retail at $399 with a 24 month contract in the US! That's far too steep.

http://android-apps.com/articles/leak-samsung-galaxy-tab-pricing-for-t-mobile-399-on-contract/


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## teccuk (Oct 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I suspect he read the review linked by FM up there
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/oct/05/next-tablet-hands-on1
> 
> ...


 
Awesome review. Shame it's not better though.


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2010)

I played with two absolutely awful cheapo Android tablets last night, both of which are scheduled for a Christmas release. 

I've no idea why the company was exhibiting pre-production models because both were seriously rubbish, running Android 1.5 (!) with a hideous screen and woefully impaired performance. Nasty things.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 21, 2010)

That's really frustrating, because all it does is tarnish Android's reputation. If you were a first time user and played with one of those pieces of shit, you'd never want to touch the platform again.


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## editor (Oct 31, 2010)

The Samsung Tab gets a full review here: 



> Wrap-Up
> 
> Listen to Steve Jobs and you’d automatically discount the Galaxy Tab as simply too small for a tablet; the Apple CEO is convinced 9.7-inches is the optimal size for a usable slate. Our time with the Tab suggests otherwise. Its 7-inch display may offer only half the usable area of the iPad, but the high resolution and responsive, accurate capacitive touchscreen add up to a user experience that’s significantly better than a regular smartphone for browsing, multimedia and – thanks in no small part to Samsung’s custom apps – messaging.
> 
> ...


----------



## Junglist (Nov 1, 2010)

I played with an Andriod phone and wasn't that thrilled I think the iOS is by far more simpler and fuss free. That said I am looking forward to playing with this Samsung tab but what I am really waiting for is the Acer tablet... no info on it yet but hopefully will be feature rich though I am not bothered about connectivity etc; which is why I brought an iPad.

Advent are bringing out a tablet called Vega, it actually looks pretty good. http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/10/14/advent-vega-review-budget-tablet-first-impressions/


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## kropotkin (Nov 1, 2010)

Barnes and Noble have released a colour version of their Nook ereader.
The previous version was eInk, but the new one is a high-res LCD, and as it runs Android it is essentially a tablet in all but name.
Retailing at $250. Don't know about UK release plans though


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

I've added 'and other devices' to the thread title because it looks like Android is spreading all over the shop now. 

Binatone have just launched a Android powered DECT landline phone which I think is a ruddy ace idea. http://www.wirefresh.com/binatone-dect-ihome-phone-makes-landline-phones-almost-sexy/


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## magneze (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I've added 'and other devices' to the thread title because it looks like Android is spreading all over the shop now.
> 
> Binatone have just launched a Android powered DECT landline phone which I think is a ruddy ace idea. http://www.wirefresh.com/binatone-dect-ihome-phone-makes-landline-phones-almost-sexy/


That looks great.

Toshiba have announced another Android tablet £100 less than the equivalent iPad: http://www.reghardware.com/2010/11/04/toshiba_folio_100/


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## elbows (Nov 4, 2010)

magneze said:


> That looks great.
> 
> Toshiba have announced another Android tablet £100 less than the equivalent iPad: http://www.reghardware.com/2010/11/04/toshiba_folio_100/


 
Wahey thats much better on the price & screensize front, lets hope its good.


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## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

magneze said:


> That looks great.


It makes a lot more sense to have a web-connected landline phone - no more typing in numbers etc etc.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> Wahey thats much better on the price & screensize front, lets hope its good.


 
Indeed. That's a well-specced, solid bit of hardware at a very good price. It remains to be seen just how well current versions of Android are suited to the tablet formfactor, however. The mention of yet another manufacturer-specific app store doesn't bode well...


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Indeed. That's a well-specced, solid bit of hardware at a very good price. It remains to be seen just how well current versions of Android are suited to the tablet formfactor, however. The mention of yet another manufacturer-specific app store doesn't bode well...


I reckon the smart money is on the next version of Android, although for some the current range of tablets may be perfect for their needs. 

After handling an iPad, I know I definitely don't want anything as big as that.


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## magneze (Nov 4, 2010)

Google always wanted multiple app-stores - there's rumours of an Amazon one for example. This may or may not be a negative depending on implementation. I had the SlideME app store installed until recently, but it was a load of shit. A choice of decently run app-stores ought to be a good thing - at present Google's one is the only one that's any cop.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm going to quote all of one of the comments from that reg article, cos it pretty much sums up my POV



> Just tried one in the local Currys. Not great. In contrast to my AC100, the build quality seems relatively poor: nasty plastic flap over the ports, spongy power button. The LCD's viewing angle is the same as the AC100 and much worse than the iPad, and it is also much more fingerprint-prone than the iPad. At least it is not a resistive screen, and people should be satisfied with the processor and graphics performance thanks to the Tegra processor.
> 
> Android works better on this than on the AC100, of course, but there's still no Google market and it's still far from easy to use - it took another customer to show me how to unlock the screen.
> 
> ...



This lack of cohesive design & strategy is what's going to hold Android tablets back at the moment. It was like this with phones too, a year or two ago - only recently have Android phones really taken off in the mainstream. I don't expect to see a truly complete and polished Android tablet till this time next year. Right now, they're still for fiddlers and geeks.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> This lack of cohesive design & strategy is what's going to hold Android tablets back at the moment. I.


It's certainly not helping right now but Android is going to be *huge* in tablets, with sales boosted by cheaper prices, more flexible specs, a bulging app store and all those people already owning Android phones.


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## stowpirate (Nov 4, 2010)

Asda now has a tablet

http://direct.asda.com/eTouch-7ins-...usic-–-10gb-storage/000504956,default,pd.html

The LG Optimus One might be worth the money?

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/lg-optimus-one-on-3-next-week-available-on-pay-as-you-go-50001408/


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## cliche guevara (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I've added 'and other devices' to the thread title because it looks like Android is spreading all over the shop now.
> 
> Binatone have just launched a Android powered DECT landline phone which I think is a ruddy ace idea. http://www.wirefresh.com/binatone-dect-ihome-phone-makes-landline-phones-almost-sexy/



PS3 is rumoured to be getting Google TV, which is Android powered. 



Crispy said:


> This lack of cohesive design & strategy is what's going to hold Android tablets back at the moment. It was like this with phones too, a year or two ago - only recently have Android phones really taken off in the mainstream. I don't expect to see a truly complete and polished Android tablet till this time next year. Right now, they're still for fiddlers and geeks.



Totally agree, hopefully Gingerbread will cater for tablets and we'll start to see some devices that aren't just large, less functional mobiles.



stowpirate said:


> Asda now has a tablet
> 
> http://direct.asda.com/eTouch-7ins-...usic-–-10gb-storage/000504956,default,pd.html


 
300mhz processor, 128mb RAM, resistive touch screen, 3 hour battery that will reduce to about 45 minutes with wi-fi on. That genuinely offends me.


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## elbows (Nov 4, 2010)

Im sure its awful but the price, £97! Anyone who expects it to be a proper tablet experience is going to be upset if they get one of these, but at that price point Im wondering if it might have some other uses.


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## cliche guevara (Nov 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im sure its awful but the price, £97! Anyone who expects it to be a proper tablet experience is going to be upset if they get one of these, but at that price point Im wondering if it might have some other uses.


It will barely function as a browsing device. With those specs, expect even standard quality youtube footage to be jumpy, and expect serious lag. Forget about multitasking.


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## stowpirate (Nov 5, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im sure its awful but the price, £97! Anyone who expects it to be a proper tablet experience is going to be upset if they get one of these, but at that price point Im wondering if it might have some other uses.


 
Photo frame with basic web browsing capabilities or for reading a ebook.


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## elbows (Nov 5, 2010)

stowpirate said:


> Photo frame with basic web browsing capabilities or for reading a ebook.


 
Yeah. Part of my wow at the price is that Im a bit out of date with quite how low prices had fallen in recent years, didnt realise quite how cheap 7" digital photo frames are these days. If this device had a reasonable version of Android on it then it would almost be worth the money for me to get a basic taste of this platform, but I assume its not a good version of android on it?


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## cliche guevara (Nov 5, 2010)

No, it will give you a terrible impression of an excellent platform.


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## editor (Nov 5, 2010)

The Advent Vega is rumoured to have made a decent stab at an affordable Android tablet.


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## stowpirate (Nov 6, 2010)

editor said:


> The Advent Vega is rumoured to have made a decent stab at an affordable Android tablet.



It is a bit of a basic spec but has a great cpu. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Tegra

I might get one but there is always something better

http://www.intomobile.com/2010/11/04/notion-ink-adam-android-2-2-launch/


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## editor (Nov 19, 2010)

Currys reporting that they sold out of their Advent Vega tablets in a few hours: http://www.wirefresh.com/android-advent-vega-tablet-sells-out-in-hours/

At £249, it sure seems quite tempting....


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## paolo (Nov 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Currys reporting that they sold out of their Advent Vega tablets in a few hours: http://www.wirefresh.com/android-advent-vega-tablet-sells-out-in-hours/


 
Even more amazing, its screen size changes by three inches _during_ the article.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2010)

That's PC World getting _their own specs wrong!_


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## editor (Nov 19, 2010)

It's got some ace specs though for the price: NVIDIA’s Tegra 2 chipset -  with 1080p HD support and an HDMI port - WiFi b/g, Bluetooth 2.1+EDR and a 4GB microSD card.

Early build hands on video here:


> We’re cautiously impressed at this stage. The Vega’s spec sheet may omit 3G and a rear-facing camera, and the OS might not be especially fitted to the large display, but it’s a solid slate and the price is impressive; we’ve seen cheap, ARM11 based tablets on sale for the same sort of money, after all. We’ll be able to put it through its paces more when the review units arrive, however, and see how much of a challenge to the iPad, Toshiba Folio 100 and Galaxy Tab it really is.
> 
> http://androidcommunity.com/advent-vega-tablet-hands-on-video-20101013/


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## editor (Nov 23, 2010)

I had a go on the Samsung Galaxy Tab today and was rather impressed. The size is way better than the iPad for me too. Much more manageable and big enough to do netbook stuff.


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 23, 2010)

editor said:


> I had a go on the Samsung Galaxy Tab today and was rather impressed. The size is way better than the iPad for me too. Much more manageable and big enough to do netbook stuff.


 
I wouldn't want anything less than 10" I don't think. The Vega looks interesting but I'm still a long way from convinced by Android. My most used apps have poor unofficial counterparts on Android, which is a surprise after all this time. The mate who's living with me at the moment is so unimpressed by the apps on his Desire that he carries his Touch around with him as well. Defeats the object a bit.

And that really, honestly isn't trolling. I felt similar when I had the Desire.


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## cliche guevara (Nov 23, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I wouldn't want anything less than 10" I don't think. The Vega looks interesting but I'm still a long way from convinced by Android. My most used apps have poor unofficial counterparts on Android, which is a surprise after all this time. The mate who's living with me at the moment is so unimpressed by the apps on his Desire that he carries his Touch around with him as well. Defeats the object a bit.
> 
> And that really, honestly isn't trolling. I felt similar when I had the Desire.


Android apps really don't have the overall polish that istore apps do, but I think that this is mainly a design thing. The functionality is all there, and I'm yet to be convinced that there's anything relevant that the iPhone can do which can't be done equally well or better on Android. I can totally see why the lack of Apple polish to the system would put some users off though, but it's to be expected considering that (warning: sweeping generalisation) Apple and iPhone appeal to and are used by designers and Android appeals to and is used by programmers.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 23, 2010)

My dad got one of the Samsungs recently, and he seems very happy with it. He has been, admittedly, quite happy with ridiculously-sized phones in the past - he's had some sort of vast Nokia Communicator thing the size of an 80s mobile for a long time. He also has fat fingers and his eyes aren't too great these days so favours big displays. But as I say, he likes it, which is good as I'd been worried by some of the reviews out (it couldn't have a worse UI than the damn Nokia I suppose). Next time I see him I'll have a play with the thing.


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## Refused as fuck (Nov 23, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Next time I see him I'll have a play with the thing.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2011)

There's going to be zillions of tablets coming through soon - some shit, some good - but the ace news is that SwiftKey are developing a version of their keyboard for larger devices.  

I've tried loads of screen keyboards, but SwiftKey is fucking amazing - the way it works out what you're going to type borders on voodoo!



> SwiftKey for Android was one of the breakout stars in the virtual keyboard business last year, thanks to a unique predictive phrase system that learns how you talk (or write, as it were) and recommends entire words based on your personal style. It sounds weird, but it's surprisingly helpful -- and even if you don't use the phrase prediction aspect at all, it's simply a well laid-out, easy-to-use keyboard. The company has big plans for 2011 with talks of OEM deals in the pipeline, UI and functionality tweaks, new utilities for learning your writing habits by ingesting RSS feeds, Facebook posts, Gmail, and other sources... oh, and this: a new app customized for use on Android tablets.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/12/exclusive-swiftkey-tweaks-its-android-keyboard-for-tablets-han/


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## Crispy (Mar 7, 2011)

Exhaustive and interesting review of the Xoom from Ars Technica http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/ars-reviews-the-motorola-xoom.ars/

Long story short: Excellent hardware, well-designed software, lots of rough edges require patching and upgrades. Don't buy it now unless you want to fiddle or develop for it. In 3-5 months' time it will be a serious contender.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Exhaustive and interesting review of the Xoom from Ars Technica http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/reviews/2011/03/ars-reviews-the-motorola-xoom.ars/
> 
> Long story short: Excellent hardware, well-designed software, lots of rough edges require patching and upgrades. Don't buy it now unless you want to fiddle or develop for it. In 3-5 months' time it will be a serious contender.


I'm in no hurry to buy any tablet at the moment, so if I do bite, I'll be looking at 2nd/3rd gen models.

Did you see that the HTC Flyer has a neat 'Palm-rejection' feature  which lets the device intelligently ignore the touch of a hand leaning on the screen while a pen or stylus is being used. Which is nice. http://www.wirefresh.com/htc-flyer-7-android-tablet-shows-off-its-sketching-tricks/


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## Crispy (Mar 7, 2011)

Very clever.


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## Crispy (Mar 7, 2011)

I have to say; this image convinces me that 4:3 is the right aspect ratio for tablets. Even though both screens have roughly the same surface area, the ipad has much more of the web page displayed. In portrait, the difference is even more stark





They didn't show any screenshots of the Xoom working in portrait mode, and you can see why - it's so skinny! Nobody makes books or magazines in this shape, for good reason.

16:10 is great for movies, but that's far from the most common tasks for tablets.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

I'd still prefer a skinnier tablet with less chunky bezel going on, not that I've any interest in either of those tablets.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 7, 2011)

Skinnier in both directions? Or 16:10?


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Skinnier in both directions? Or 16:10?


I prefer the shape of the Xoom, although, as you know, I prefer smaller tablets full stop.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I have to say; this image convinces me that 4:3 is the right aspect ratio for tablets.


 
I'm with you on the web browsing, but I can think of a lot of apps (mostly audio/music related as that's all I'd ever use) where the extra width of wide screen would be useful.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 7, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Very clever.


 
Been done before though, in various different ways. I have at least two apps which do it just on the iPad.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Been done before though, in various different ways. I have at least two apps which do it just on the iPad.


The HTC has fundamentally different stylus input functionality to the iPad though.

The Xoom has picked up another review here: http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-xoom-review-the-big-one-on-android-community-20110307/



> This is the benchmark against which all future tablets will be measured. Not only Android tablets, but Apple, BlackBerry, Palm, and whatever else comes down the pipe. How could I possibly say that the iPad 2 isn’t the new top tier? Because as with everything else Apple, you either decide to buy the iPad 2 or you don’t, the rest of the tablets are in a different world altogether. Apple gains this distinction by continuing to market themselves as a standalone platform and brand, the titan that all but brought down the Windows PC as the dominant “cool” home computer, the group that brought us the world’s most popular digital music player and had at least a giant part in paving the way for the smartphone market that dominates mobile connectivity today. There’s a market out there for people who’ve been waiting to work with a tablet-sized-device for over a year now who don’t feel like the iPad is going to do it for them, and here comes the hero.
> 
> This tablet is Google’s first attempt at showing off their ground-up built mobile OS made specifically for the tablet – and what a whopper it is. The hardware is magnificently solid, aesthetically pleasing at all angles, and most important of all, feels great to hold and work with. The Android 3.0 Honeycomb operating system takes everything Google has learned from wave after wave of mobile OS versions on smaller screens and odd devices and situations and forms an instant masterpiece here with Honeycomb. This is the next big step in tablet warfare in both hardware and software, mark my words.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Mar 7, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Been done before though, in various different ways. I have at least two apps which do it just on the iPad.


 
That's interesting, because as far as I was aware, the touch API on iDevices doesn't let you access the raw sensor data, just the locations of touches. So 3rd party software has no access to the size of object that's causing a touch, just the center point. Do you have to tell those two apps if you are left or right handed? It could just be discounting the 'outside' of the two touches as the hand, leaving the 'inside' one as the stylus location.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 7, 2011)

Crispy said:


> That's interesting, because as far as I was aware, the touch API on iDevices doesn't let you access the raw sensor data, just the locations of touches. So 3rd party software has no access to the size of object that's causing a touch, just the center point. Do you have to tell those two apps if you are left or right handed? It could just be discounting the 'outside' of the two touches as the hand, leaving the 'inside' one as the stylus location.


 
You don't have to configure them; I have no idea what functions and algorithms they are using though. Actually one of them isn't "smart", it just has a little marker that follows you down the page (and which you can also move manually) and anything underneath the marker doesn't get registered - this actually works quite well.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Actually one of them isn't "smart", it just has a little marker that follows you down the page (and which you can also move manually) and anything underneath the marker doesn't get registered - this actually works quite well.


That's hardly comparable to HTC's rather more advanced technology.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 7, 2011)

There are other apps which are automatic. As I said.


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There are other apps which are automatic. As I said.


Which apps are they?


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 7, 2011)

Penultimate is the one that I own which does that; there are others which say they have wrist protection in the same way, but I don't go around buying apps just to check how they do it.


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Penultimate is the one that I own which does that; there are others which say they have wrist protection in the same way, but I don't go around buying apps just to check how they do it.


Looks like a nice app but I really don't want to be writing with my finger and I haven't liked the look of the add on stylus things you can get for the iPad. Apart from the German sausage of course.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 7, 2011)

You could use a Flyer stylus with it. Or vice versa for that matter. Actually there's a lack of properly fine pointed styluses for the iPad around, but there's nothing technologically that prevents them, it's just lack of demand. If the Flyer arrives on sale I may well buy a replacement stylus for it for use with the iPad.

The issue with fat tipped styluses is not that they leave a fat line or anything, it's that the width of the tip obscures the line you are drawing, which makes handwriting difficult unless you zoom. They're fine for rough diagrams and sketches, and with zoom you can produce some very neat results (I've used it for wireframes and conceptual sketches which I've then just sent straight to people).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2011)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/08/google_music_sync/



> Android hackers have discovered that Google's cloud-based music service is up and running, for those prepared to muck about with the internals of Honeycomb at least.
> 
> Google has been widely expected to launch a cloud-based music service – an online store of your existing collection – and that‘s exactly what's been found in the Honeycomb media player.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2011)

Call me a luddite, but I've yet to be convinced of the advantages of storing my collection in the cloud. Mobile data can be patchy enough at the best of times. If I had my way I'd ban youtube and the like from mobile connections as well.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You could use a Flyer stylus with it. Or vice versa for that matter.


And you think the experience would be exactly the same on your iPad?



> The Flyer doesn't come with just any old capacitive stylus, however -- HTC has worked with N-Trig, the company that has made digitizers for convertible PCs like the Dell Latitude XT, to implement a much more accurate writing or doodling experience...
> 
> The Flyer has a capacitive touchscreen with what's been known as an active digitizer, although N-Trig's hesitant about using that term to describe its wares. Basically, like most convertible tablet PCs, the battery-powered (or "active") pen communicates with the screen and relays its pressure, positioning, etc. Naturally, that means that the Flyer uses a special N-Trig panel (it's actually the company's latest G 3.5 chipset) and stylus. Nope, it won't work with a regular pen or sharp object (not that you'd start sticking your brand new tablet with random pointy objects!)
> 
> ...


Personally, I'm delighted that the stylus is back. Steve Jobs can fuck right off.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2011)

Here we go again. *unsubscribes*


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Here we go again. *unsubscribes*


Or you could just say - "oh hang on, it looks like the HTC Flyer uses a different input system that is quite different to the iPad so I was wrong to think that they were interchangeable." At least that's how it looks to me but I'm happy to be corrected.

The Steve Jobs comment was in response to his claim, "If you see a stylus or a task manager, they blew it," which seems pretty much relevant to bring up seeing as this thread is all about people using styluses - including you!


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## ovaltina (Mar 8, 2011)

I'd love it if someone invented an android spin off designed for e ink displays, like on the kindle, and then stuck it in a netbook type device with a proper keyboard. Or a tablet. It'd be much nicer to work with.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> I'd love it if someone invented an android spin off designed for e ink displays, like on the kindle, and then stuck it in a netbook type device with a proper keyboard. Or a tablet. It'd be much nicer to work with.


 
That would be grim...the screen wouldn't be able to keep up with your typing.


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 9, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> I'd love it if someone invented an android spin off designed for e ink displays, like on the kindle, and then stuck it in a netbook type device with a proper keyboard. Or a tablet. It'd be much nicer to work with.


 


Global Stoner said:


> That would be grim...the screen wouldn't be able to keep up with your typing.



The Notion Ink Adam can switch between LCD and e-ink displays.


----------



## Jambooboo (Mar 23, 2011)

Having never used an Android device, and the only tablet I've played with being my brother's Ipad, I bought an Advent Vega at the weekend. And I have to say it really is lovely, especially at it's price point (£250 rrp - I paid something like £270 with a matching case and screen protector).

Out of the box it's quite drab in functions, but flashed with the Modaco custom rom, it's everything I'd want it to be.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2011)

Jambooboo said:


> Having never used an Android device, and the only tablet I've played with being my brother's Ipad, I bought an Advent Vega at the weekend. And I have to say it really is lovely, especially at it's price point (£250 rrp - I paid something like £270 with a matching case and screen protector).
> 
> Out of the box it's quite drab in functions, but flashed with the Modaco custom rom, it's everything I'd want it to be.


I'm almost tempted to pick up a cheapo Android tablet for the kitchen for watching TV, looking up recipes, reading the news at breakfast etc., although I may go for something even cheaper. 

But tell us more about the Vega! Any big disappointments/pleasant surprises etc?


----------



## Jambooboo (Mar 23, 2011)

editor said:


> I'm almost tempted to pick up a cheapo Android tablet for the kitchen for watching TV, looking up recipes, reading the news at breakfast etc., although I may go for something even cheaper.
> 
> But tell us more about the Vega! Any big disappointments/pleasant surprises etc?


 
Like I said, I've never used tablets/Android before, so it's hard to say what makes the Vega so good.

Pluses...

- Very customisable, once you've installed a custom rom over the stock one.
- At about 700g and half an inch thick, it's a breeze to carry around (not touched my Acer Aspire One since).
- Everything seems very quick - responsive internet browsing, scrolling through menus etc.
- Very intuitive (especially given I've never used Android before)
- HDMI out, USB2 (slave out of the box, slave and host with the mod).
- Getting a good 8 hours battery from continual use.


Minuses

- Can only buy from DSG.
- Out of the box experience is rubbish (no Marketplace etc)
- No dedicated physical 'home' button (holding down the power button brings up a menu with the home option amongst other things. Can be modded so that a quick touch of the power button works as 'home' as well). 
- Only a crappy 1.3MP front facing camera.
- The viewing angle isn't as good as an ipad.

For £250 it's a bargain IMO. I'd considered the Xoom, but for £200 less and the same processor, it was a no-brainer.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2011)

Jambooboo said:


> Like I said, I've never used tablets/Android before, so it's hard to say what makes the Vega so good.
> 
> Pluses...
> 
> ...


I don't suppose you fancy padding that out a little bit and perhaps explaining how you managed to sort out the ROM so i could post it up as an article on Wirefresh?

I'd find that info useful and it would be great to share it more widely.


----------



## RaverDrew (Mar 23, 2011)

http://android.modaco.com/content/a...-rom-for-the-advent-vega-with-online-kitchen/


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## editor (Mar 23, 2011)

RaverDrew said:


> http://android.modaco.com/content/a...-rom-for-the-advent-vega-with-online-kitchen/


It might be kind of nice to get a rather more user friendly article together, no?


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## cliche guevara (Mar 23, 2011)

editor said:


> I'm almost tempted to pick up a cheapo Android tablet for the kitchen for watching TV, looking up recipes, reading the news at breakfast etc., although I may go for something even cheaper.


 This one is the best cheapo I've seen I reckon.


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## magneze (Mar 24, 2011)

Samsung Galaxy Tab 7" now £299: http://direct.asda.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab/000504480,default,pd.html


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

Shame it's such a shite device.


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## editor (Mar 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Shame it's such a shite device.


It's really not "shite." Not an _iPad-crusha_ for sure, but I'd be more than happy to have one around the flat.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> It's really not "shite." Not an _iPad-crusha_ for sure, but I'd be more than happy to have one around the flat.


 
It is in my experience of it. Laggy, not very responsible, screens too small and squashed for a tablet too.


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## editor (Mar 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It is in my experience of it. Laggy, not very responsible, screens too small and squashed for a tablet too.


I loved the shape and didn't find it laggy at all. I'd love to have one in the kitchen/bedroom, but the price would have to come down further before I get interested.


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## Idaho (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> I'd love to have one in the kitchen/bedroom


 
Recipes and porn? Wipe clean surface?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 24, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> This one is the best cheapo I've seen I reckon.


 
Capacitive touch is nice considering the price.


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## Jambooboo (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't suppose you fancy padding that out a little bit and perhaps explaining how you managed to sort out the ROM so i could post it up as an article on Wirefresh?
> 
> I'd find that info useful and it would be great to share it more widely.


 
I'm a bit pushed for time at the moment Ed (and admittedly not much in a writing mood) - apologies.


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## Jambooboo (Mar 24, 2011)

A few days on and I'm very pleased with my Advent Vega; it really is zippy - gets a Quadrant score of 2228!

Downloaded a bunch of hooky games for it, the most lovely of which is _Dungeon Defenders First Wave_, which is optimised for Tegra hardware - you can crank the graphics right up and it runs beautifully, without a hint of any framedrops. It really is the loveliest looking graphics I've seen on any mobile device.


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## cliche guevara (Mar 24, 2011)

It certainly is tempting... If I knew it could run honeycomb it'd be a no brainer. How's the battery life?


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## Jambooboo (Mar 24, 2011)

Hmm, I'm guestimating about seven hours (I've never had the battery 100% drain). But that's with volume and screen brightness whacked up, and having a bunch of apps simultaneously running.

As for Honeycomb, though I'm plenty happy with the Modaco rom I'm running, it's supposedly in the post.


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## cliche guevara (Mar 24, 2011)

A bit of research reveals that Honeycomb won't be available until the AOSP is released, which it looks like Google are delaying... But still, this thing looks impressive. Might go have a play with one and take the piss out the sales staff by asking them questions they'll have no clue about. Apparently it runs the N64 emulator pretty well, that's impressive. Only concern is the measly 512mb internal memory... There's only so many apps you can stick on SD.


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## Jambooboo (Mar 24, 2011)

Have you got an Android device at the moment?

As for the internal memory, I've not had any probs moving apps across to a micro SDHC I bought (picked up a Class 10 32gb card for just over £50).

I'll download the N64 emulator and let you know how it runs. Thus far I've only downloaded a SNES emulator; using on screen controls is a chore, and I've not dug out my Wiimote/Classic Controller yet.


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## cliche guevara (Mar 24, 2011)

Yeah I have an Orange SF and had a HTC Magic before that, I've been with Android since pre-cupcake. I've had the wiimote thing working on my SF and it makes a whole world of difference, well worth doing. Not one for the morning commute though...


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## cliche guevara (Mar 24, 2011)

One of the big attractions to a tablet at the minute is that I can tether my 3g connection from my phone, have you tried that?


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## Jambooboo (Mar 25, 2011)

I've not tried it yet - plan on picking one up in the next few days - but tethering to a San Francisco is supposedly a piece of cake, a 30 second job.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Mar 25, 2011)

Must, not, impulse, order...


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> I loved the shape and didn't find it laggy at all. I'd love to have one in the kitchen/bedroom, but the price would have to come down further before I get interested.


 
I played with one side by side with an iPad to compare, the slickness aint there, there was visible lag and drag using the screen to swipe, it didn't load apps very fast, it just wasn't an enjoyable experience.


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## cliche guevara (Mar 25, 2011)

Right I'm really worried that I'm going to go out on my lunch break and buy a Vega.


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

If it's OK with contributors here, I'm going to cobble together a wirefresh article out of these posts - it seems folks should know about this bargain of a tablet!


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 25, 2011)

Jambooboo, what rooting/custom rom guide did you follow? Just the ones on the Modaco forum?


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## magneze (Mar 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I played with one side by side with an iPad to compare, the slickness aint there, there was visible lag and drag using the screen to swipe, it didn't load apps very fast, it just wasn't an enjoyable experience.


If it's anything like the Galaxy S, Samsung released it too early before the software was really ready. For me the Galaxy S didn't really perform as expected until it got the latest Android 2.2.1 update. With that update it's now pretty awesome, just 6 months later than expected.  I expect the Tab is the same..


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## Jambooboo (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> If it's OK with contributors here, I'm going to cobble together a wirefresh article out of these posts - it seems folks should know about this bargain of a tablet!



Yeah, no probs. 



cliche guevara said:


> Right I'm really worried that I'm going to go out on my lunch break and buy a Vega.


 
Get one. I very much doubt you'll be disappointed. 



cliche guevara said:


> Jambooboo, what rooting/custom rom guide did you follow? Just the ones on the Modaco forum?


 
Yeah.

It's a piece of piss. Just a case of installing the USB drivers for the Vega to your pc/mac, USBing the Vega to your computer, and then double-clicking the installer -  takes you through it.

From there I added the 'Market' widget to the desktop, and also a shortcut to the 'Appbrain' app (I also use another App-indexer app which lets you download all apk files for free - I won't mention it by name here). As far as browsers go, I seem to have settled on Dolphin.


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## cliche guevara (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm going to go and have a look at one on the way home this evening, the viewing angle problem is the only thing that's putting me off at the minute. Have you got a custom ROM running? Most people seem to recommend the Modaco one?


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## Jambooboo (Mar 25, 2011)

Yeah, the Modaco one.

With regard to the viewing angle, the only other tablet I've played with is an ipad, and side by side the viewing angle is better with the ipad. But that doesn't mean that the Vega's is poor; dead on centre at eye level is obviously best, but it's been perfectly usable at any angles I've been sat/lying using it.


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## cliche guevara (Mar 25, 2011)

Well I went and had a play, walked away without one. The machine was pretty impressive, very responsive and handled the games well. Video quality was pretty poor, but that might just be the fault of iPlayer. The screen let it down, although the overheard flourescent lights in Currys certainly weren't doing it any favours. I also felt that the build quality was lacking, the back had a lot of give and felt like it would come apart quite quickly. The size was slightly too big for my tastes, I think the Samsung 8.9 will be the perfect compromise. None of these points mean that it isn't great value for money, it is undoubtedly that, but it's just not for me. I'm going to hope that when we eventually see the Samsung Tab 8.9 it comes in at a sensible price point.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> If it's OK with contributors here, I'm going to cobble together a wirefresh article out of these posts - it seems folks should know about this bargain of a tablet!


 
Attributed?


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## editor (Mar 27, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Attributed?


If someone actually writes the article they obviously get full credit. If I have to write it myself using several sources, then I link to the source.


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## Jambooboo (Mar 27, 2011)

Run Smartbench 2011 on my Vega - it's supposedly better than Quadrant - and am getting a score of 2837. Which is showing same as a Xoom and the Viewsonic G Tablet, and better than the LG Optimux and Motorola Atrix - only the overclocked Xoom shows higher (1.5GHz overclock showing 4212!).

By way of comparison, the Desire HD scores 1363.


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## Jambooboo (Mar 27, 2011)

Had a go at N64oid as well. _Super Mario 64_ and _Mario Kart 64_ run perfect, whereas _Ocarina Of Time_ - which was always going to be more trying - is a little glitchy (the sound is a bit iffy). Set frameskip on while playing _Ocarina Of Time_ and it seems to run fine though.

N64oid _is_ a new app though - no doubt later revisions will run far better.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2011)

editor said:


> If someone actually writes the article they obviously get full credit. If I have to write it myself using several sources, then I link to the source.


 
Sorry I meant would you quote from here attributed without asking or would it be anon sources type stuff.


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## editor (Mar 27, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sorry I meant would you quote from here attributed without asking or would it be anon sources type stuff.


I'm afraid you've lost me here. I have actually already asked although there's nothing wrong with journos basing a story on a bulletin board thread here so long as the source is acknowledged and it's not just copy and paste.


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## cliche guevara (Mar 27, 2011)

Jambooboo said:


> Had a go at N64oid as well. _Super Mario 64_ and _Mario Kart 64_ run perfect, whereas _Ocarina Of Time_ - which was always going to be more trying - is a little glitchy (the sound is a bit iffy). Set frameskip on while playing _Ocarina Of Time_ and it seems to run fine though.
> 
> N64oid _is_ a new app though - no doubt later revisions will run far better.


Last I heard it had been pulled form the market while the dev makes some updates, should be back in a couple of weeks in a much more stable form. The glitches you've experienced are almost certainly down to the app, not your hardware.


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## Jambooboo (Mar 27, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Last I heard it had been pulled form the market while the dev makes some updates, should be back in a couple of weeks in a much more stable form. The glitches you've experienced are almost certainly down to the app, not your hardware.


 
Ah. I downloaded the app from elsewhere.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2011)

Is the Motorola Xoom a flop?

Certainly not according to this article:
http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/06/the-motorola-xoom-is-most-certainly-not-a-flop/


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2011)

Lol you arguing with yourself now?


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## ChrisFilter (Apr 6, 2011)

The article is spot on, mind.


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## editor (Apr 7, 2011)

The Samsung Wi-Fi-only Galaxy Tab tablet is going on sale in the States for just $349.99 - that's around £213. Now that's going to tempt a lot of people, I reckon.


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## cliche guevara (Apr 7, 2011)

I'm still waiting for the new 8.9 inch Galaxy Tab, rumoured to be retailing at $449.


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## editor (Apr 14, 2011)

The Wi-Fi only Dell Streak 7 has just gone up for a fairly reasonable £299: http://www.wirefresh.com/dell-delivers-the-wifi-only-streak-7-for-the-uk-market/


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## Idaho (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm waiting for games that work on a console where you use a smart device as the controller. Loads of possibilities.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 14, 2011)

Why is there such a big gap between wifi and 3g inclusion in devices? Does 3g really cost that much to add??


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## cliche guevara (Apr 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why is there such a big gap between wifi and 3g inclusion in devices? Does 3g really cost that much to add??


 
I've always presumed it was just there to help the network operators justify their monthly cost.


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## Jambooboo (Apr 24, 2011)

New rom out for the Vega which allows an overclock to 1.4GHz; not tried it yet, but it scores better in benchmarks than with the Xoom's overclock to 1.5GHz, at half the price.

Played about with my brother's first gen ipad yesterday - not for the first time, but for the first time following having extensively used my Vega. I gotta say that while the screen and viewing angles _are_ better on the ipad, they're not ridiculously better.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 24, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> I've always presumed it was just there to help the network operators justify their monthly cost.


 
But I don't understand why I can get a 3G dongle PAYG for £25 yet if I want 3G on an iPad 2 I pay roughly a £100 extra...


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## pinkmonkey (Apr 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But I don't understand why I can get a 3G dongle PAYG for £25 yet if I want 3G on an iPad 2 I pay roughly a £100 extra...



It's a swindle.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But I don't understand why I can get a 3G dongle PAYG for £25 yet if I want 3G on an iPad 2 I pay roughly a £100 extra...



I'm guessing the same reason the 32gb version costs so much more then 16gb. Because they can.


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## Bob_the_lost (Apr 25, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> It's a swindle.


 
This. The 3g Chip costs a couple of dollars wholesale. It's just a way of premium pricing things.


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## Jambooboo (May 19, 2011)

Reading Modaco, and Honeycomb has been unofficially ported to the Advent Vega now. Not flashed it as yet, as I've been too busy playing with my 3DS.


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## editor (May 30, 2011)

I sort of like the idea, but I'm not impressed with having to yank the phone out of a flap at the back:







http://www.wirefresh.com/asus-padfone-tablet-inclides-docking-bay-for-companion-smartphone/


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 30, 2011)

Main problem I see with these type of devices is I replace my phone more often then my laptop.


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## editor (May 30, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Main problem I see with these type of devices is I replace my phone more often then my laptop.


Yep. I wouldn't fancy committing to both a tablet and a phone. The Motorola Atrix does a slightly better job of it.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2011)

This one looks more interesting:






Viewsonic ViewPad 7x - 7" screen running Honeycomb.
http://www.wirefresh.com/viewsonic-viewpad-7x-serves-up-seven-inches-of-honeycomb-tablet-goodness/


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## editor (May 30, 2011)

Here's a really crappy video for the Asus.


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## pinkmonkey (May 30, 2011)

Asus in managing to be even more smug than Apple shocker.   How much do you want to punch him in the face? 

ETA how much do I want that device?  Lots!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 30, 2011)

A jacket with the arms scrunched up? 1986 called, it wants its fashion sense back. Truly awful advert, doesn't evoke any feeling of how cool the device could be at all...


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 30, 2011)

FWIW 1986 _is_ in fashion right now. Go and look in Topman and see how many jackets like that there are. We're old.

 I still like the idea of the gadget though.  Ever since I held up the queue in the airport because I had so many blimmin' gadgets.  It's one the reasons I've not gone for a tablet yet, can't face hawking round even more junk. This 'nesting device' cuts down some of the clutter so it could appeal to business travellers who don't want yet another gadget.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 30, 2011)

What the fuck is that bit near the end when the girls wear yellow?!


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 30, 2011)

That ad makes me cringe. As it says 'the smiles come easily' or something. Sure everyone would be grinning in amusement at the stupid looking guy. I am not convinced about the whole pad idea. I would like something a bit bigger than the smartphone, perhaps just able to fit in an inside jacket pocket but not the size of the current ones.


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 30, 2011)

The ad is really truly shit, the gadget appeals.  As someone already forking out for two dongles and two mobiles (I can't have a landline, I'm on a boat), the thought of not having to get _another_ 3G sim and _another_ bloody contract if I get a tablet computer really appeals to me.  I can see the benefit.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 30, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> The ad is really truly shit, the gadget appeals.  As someone already forking out for two dongles and two mobiles (I can't have a landline, I'm on a boat), the thought of not having to get _another_ 3G sim and _another_ bloody contract if I get a tablet computer really appeals to me.  I can see the benefit.


 
Can't you share the data from a phone rather then use a dongle?


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 30, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Can't you share the data from a phone rather then use a dongle?



I'm often in a weak signal area.  I've already had to unlock the dongles (so I can use PAYG sims if my usual provider has no reception) and get high gain aerials for the roof. I could get a wifi dongle router, but not sure if they have an aerial connection.  Only the Vodafone dongles  seem to have aerial connections.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 30, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> FWIW 1986 _is_ in fashion right now. Go and look in Topman and see how many jackets like that there are. We're old.


 
No, people are stupid. Only a fool would ever want the 80s style to be fashionable!


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 30, 2011)

I gave in. This transformer thing is ace.


----------



## lobster (Jun 2, 2011)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I gave in. This transformer thing is ace.


 
I have been looking getting one of those or the Xoom.  How do you find the transformer ? 

What are the pros or cons,what made you buy it over the xoom?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 2, 2011)

lobster said:


> I have been looking getting one of those or the Xoom.  How do you find the transformer ?
> 
> What are the pros or cons,what made you buy it over the xoom?


 
The price, plus the xoom seemed to be more customised and less reliable. I don't trust motorola at all.

I love this thing,  quick, smooth, slick. Too heavy to be an ereader but i have one of those already. The choice was this or the vega. It was the screen that did it.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 20, 2011)

editor said:


> Viewsonic have just announced their Android ViewPad 7 tablet which comes with 3G, video calling, USB port, Wi-Fi and GPS, plus a microSD slot and undercuts the iPad at just £350.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is going for £139.95+£7.95p&p on IBOOD today. 
Not too bad a price, though it has been superseded by the 7x now.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2011)

Blimey, that's an amazing price for what you're getting. 

I've still got the HTC Flyer on loan and it's a lovely machine, but - like all tablets I've tried thus far - there's no way on earth I could justify its price tag. 
I've enjoyed having a tablet around the house, but it is a luxury I can easily live without. 

After playing with iPds/Xooms and others, I'm only interested in a small tablet that I can draw on really. Or maybe one that I can use as a netbook, with a proper keyboard.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jun 20, 2011)

editor said:


> Or maybe one that I can use as a netbook, with a proper keyboard.


 
Having had the Asus Transformer for a few days now, it really is a fantastic bit of kit.


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 20, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Having had the Asus Transformer for a few days now, it really is a fantastic bit of kit.


 
Did you get it with the keyboard attachment or without? The sub £400 price is really tempting me but quad core tablets are just round the corner.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jun 21, 2011)

Got it with the keyboard. For an extra £50 you have to really, it doubles the battery life and makes typing long emails a doddle, not to mention it gives you two USB ports. I was surprised at how well Android works with a mouse.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2011)

Had a proper play with the Playbook and the Motorolla today; must say was not impressed with either, the Playbook wasn't responsive at all, the navigation was confusing and it felt cheap and bulky in the hand. The Motorolla was a bit nicer in build quality but felt bloody heavy! The new honeycomb OS isn't as slick as iOS and there was a discernable lag with swiping. Neither really felt like there was a direct connection between my touch and the screen...can't in all honesty recommend either to anyone wanting a tablet. Will have to try out the new 10 Galaxy to see if this is something worth bothering with (I've had a few people asking advice on getting a tablet, all have been open minded and want to know what the spread is and what's worth getting for future support purposes).


----------



## r0bb0 (Jul 15, 2011)

this got posted on the 13/7/11 of the new sony s1 & s2. The S2 is a clam shell device and I reckon could be a big hit with the chic handbag set. It is a pity that the 2 screens dont bleed into each other but I guess that could be a design limitation.


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2011)

The magazine shape is a clever idea.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2011)

That clamshell one is quite nice.


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## elbows (Jul 15, 2011)

If the two screens could blend seamlessly together then that device would be almost the perfect form factor that I've long desired.


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## editor (Jul 15, 2011)

elbows said:


> If the two screens could blend seamlessly together then that device would be almost the perfect form factor that I've long desired.


*This* was the ultimate tablet device. 



*sigh


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2011)

+1


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## elbows (Jul 15, 2011)

editor said:


> *This* was the ultimate tablet device.
> 
> *sign


 
I can see why that would be attractive, not my preference though. Mostly because I want something that folds down to a size smaller than the screen, and I always thought of the courier as having reasonably large screens which would lose this advantage for me. And also because there are some scenarios where that form factor may get on my nerves, depends how big it was supposed to be really. I would expect that if the world economy doesn't totally melt in a way that ruins gadget progress, you'll eventually be able to get something like this, although the cost of 2 screens coupled with the current difficulties they have with making the price of tablets as low as the customer would really want to pay for such a device, I won't hazard a guess as to how long you'll be waiting.


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## lobster (Jul 26, 2011)

A review on Samsung Galaxy tab 10.1 , not very good apparently. 



> But there are a few annoyances and a couple of dreadful flaws that make the Galaxy Tab 10.1 into a disappointment. First, and worst of all, there is the business of the USB connector
> 
> But Samsung's tablets – for no discernible reason – use a custom tip that isn't any of the standard mini- or micro-USB ends.
> 
> ...


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## editor (Jul 26, 2011)

The Asus Transformer is still the one to beat. 
http://www.trustedreviews.com/Asus-Eee-Pad-Transformer_Laptop_review


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## lobster (Jul 26, 2011)

Only About 1.2 Million Android Tablets Actually in Use



> The truth is that no one really knows how many Android tablets have been sold so far. Although, John Gruber of the Daring Fireball blog seems to have figured out a way to compute an estimated number. Gruber reckons that there are only about 1.21 million Android tablets actually in use around the world. Gruber bases his calculation on data from Android Market statistics and Larry Page’s announcements at a recent conference.
> 
> Google tracks devices accessing the Android Market according to screen size (among other device characteristics), and “xlarge” is registered in Google’s tracking system whenever a device having at least a 7-inch screen is used to access the Market. According to Google’s statistics, only 0.9% of “Xlarge” Android devices–that is, Android devices that have 7-inch screens or larger–have accessed the Android Market in the 7 days prior to July 1, 2011.



Interesting , albeit not entirely accurate but nevertheless a rough indication of the android tablet market.


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## magneze (Jul 26, 2011)

It's the lack of apps IMO. Smartphone market is totally different to the tablet market in this respect. People always want phones, apps are a great addition to that experience, people like doing stuff on the move. Android competes really well with Apple in this utility market. To make a tablet anything more than an expensive way to browse the internet you need properly designed touch-enabled apps that people will use like desktop applications. Apple has them, Android just doesn't seem to yet.

People may eventually take to tablets as a browser only device, but only if they get a lot cheaper and 4G networks become the norm.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 26, 2011)

magneze said:


> It's the lack of apps IMO. Smartphone market is totally different to the tablet market in this respect. People always want phones, apps are a great addition to that experience, people like doing stuff on the move. Android competes really well with Apple in this utility market. To make a tablet anything more than an expensive way to browse the internet you need properly designed touch-enabled apps that people will use like desktop applications. Apple has them, Android just doesn't seem to yet.
> 
> People may eventually take to tablets as a browser only device, but only if they get a lot cheaper and 4G networks become the norm.



Yep, this is why I don't think Android tablets will follow the same success as the phones. I reckon the tablet market is going to be more like the MP3 market of the last decade....


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## magneze (Jul 27, 2011)

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/27/retrevo_tablet_buying_survey/

Interesting chart. The hype behind the Amazon tablet is getting big. Is it the breakthrough Android tablet? Or is that question becoming a bit like "is this the year of the Linux desktop"?


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## editor (Jul 27, 2011)

In the States, Amazon have got it all going on: Amazon films, books, music, shopping etc., and a great reputation from the Kindle experience. Unless they really fuck up the hardware and UI, they've got to be n with a very good shout - and a score to settle with Apple and their 30% grab. Interesting times!


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## pinkmonkey (Jul 27, 2011)

Well I've ummed and ahhed over all of these tablets, I do want one, but just can't decide, there's something I don't like much about all of them.

So I'm holding out for the Amazon tablet - tbh.  Main reason I want a tablet is for reading ebooks but also emagazines, I'm guessing the Amazon would be most suitable for that. Maybe it'll have a screen with less glare. I hope so.

Something to surf on, with lots of battery life would be ace. 

I'm not really interested in apps at all, though.  I have a smart phone with only half a dozen apps on it, I use the full version of Facebook on it, sod the crappy cut-down app.


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## lobster (Jul 27, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> Main reason I want a tablet is for reading ebooks but also emagazines,.



I suggest a ebook reader, i use the kindle but any of them are good, up to two months of battery life, works perfectly in the sun.

I personally think the hype over Amazons tablet is unfounded, i doubt Amazon are suddenly going to release 100s of tablet apps that are good. Kindles success is down to the huge availability of ebooks with publishers which Amazon already had before the kindle even existed.  I would like to be proven wrong.


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## pinkmonkey (Jul 27, 2011)

lobster said:


> I suggest a ebook reader, .



They're not in colour, though, I read tons of emags now, I get alot of my trade press as pdf subscriptions, so that's why I'm waiting for the Amazon tablet.  I need to be able to see them in colour as I work in colour for my job.


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## elbows (Jul 27, 2011)

editor said:


> In the States, Amazon have got it all going on: Amazon films, books, music, shopping etc., and a great reputation from the Kindle experience. Unless they really fuck up the hardware and UI, they've got to be n with a very good shout - and a score to settle with Apple and their 30% grab. Interesting times!


 
Yes. Apps are clearly important, but so are other forms of content, and Amazon are one of the few who have their shit together in this regard and can really take on Apple on this front.


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## editor (Aug 15, 2011)

Android tablets have now grabbed 20% of the market. Still miles behind Apple, but clearly starting to nip at their ankles.



> Worldwide annual media tablet shipments are expected to top 120 million units in 2015. While not quite as strong as traditional PC or smartphone annual sales, media tablets are emerging from the shadow of non-handset mobile devices and rapidly coming into their own. Android media tablets have collectively taken 20% market share away from the iPad in the last 12 months. However, no single vendor using Android (or any other OS) has been able to mount a significant challenge against it.
> 
> http://www.abiresearch.com/press/37...blet+Market+Share+from+iPad+in+Last+12+Months


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 15, 2011)

Was reading yesterday how the iPad has sold ten times as all of it's competitors combined. Amazing stuff with Apple's ability to use courts to block launches all over the shop I cant see how the iPad will be beaten for a few years if ever. More and more this looks like a repeat of the mp3 market...


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## elbows (Aug 15, 2011)

There is little to tell us what impact the court cases will have on the market in 6 months time, let alone 2 years.

I struggle to imagine Apple totally owning the tablet market for many, many years to come. I think that would only happen if tablets fail to take off in a truly massive way, or if no other platform ever manages to get a decent range of apps.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Was reading yesterday how the iPad has sold ten times as all of it's competitors combined. Amazing stuff with Apple's ability to use courts to block launches all over the shop I cant see how the iPad will be beaten for a few years if ever. More and more this looks like a repeat of the mp3 market...



That high end expensive mp3 players have become irrelevant?


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## editor (Aug 15, 2011)

elbows said:


> There is little to tell us what impact the court cases will have on the market in 6 months time, let alone 2 years.


Barely any, I expect in the long term. Apple can use their dubious legal  means to try and slow down the rise of a few Android tablets, but they'll not hold back the flood.


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## pianissimo (Aug 15, 2011)

After all the intriguing marketing of 'who is TabCo?', it's been revealed today is actually Fusion Garage's Grid 10 tablet. And I thought it was just some fake company mocking the craze of the whole tablet scene. Some rather funny ads here: http://www.youtube.com/user/whoistabco#p/u

UI based on a grid, obviously, with some 'wheel' interaction. In theory, it should help organizing things better in grid, but it just looks rather busy.







Anyway, here's some videos:
http://www.fusiongarage.com/grid-10/guided-tours


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 16, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> That high end expensive mp3 players have become irrelevant?



Tech advantage doesn't mean consumer advantage.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 16, 2011)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/16/apple_samsung/

Apple quite literally stretching the truth?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 16, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/16/apple_samsung/
> 
> Apple quite literally stretching the truth?



Yep cheeky but clever tactic too managed to get a competitor banned from selling a product for a period they've probably sold tons in. As business tactics go that was a home run.


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## lobster (Aug 17, 2011)

http://www.businessinsider.com/hps-touchpad-is-officially-a-disaster-2011-8



> Best Buy is sitting on more than 200,000 unsold TouchPads, and is threatening to send them back to HP. The situation is so bad that a top HP exec is slated to fly to Minnesota to try and make nice with the retail giant.
> Arik Hesseldahl at AllThingsD reports that Best Buy ordered 270,000 of the HP tablets, which launched last month to mediocre reviews.
> So far, it's sold only 25,000. And even that number may be high, as it doesn't account for returns.
> Best Buy doesn't want all that unsold inventory taking up shelf space, and is asking HP to take them back. Todd Bradley or another HP exec is reportedly going to fly to Minneapolis to try and persuade Best Buy otherwise


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## Crispy (Aug 17, 2011)

Touchpad isn't Android, though


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## lobster (Aug 17, 2011)

the title of the forum is


> Android tablets and* other devices*


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## grit (Aug 17, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Touchpad isn't Android, though



This is relevant how?


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## Crispy (Aug 17, 2011)

Android (tablets and other devices)


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## editor (Aug 17, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep cheeky but clever tactic too managed to get a competitor banned from selling a product for a period they've probably sold tons in. As business tactics go that was a home run.


I suppose "cheeky" is one way of describing what appears to Apple employing underhand and devious means to fool the courts into unfairly blocking a competitor and deprive consumers of choice.

With luck, this "home run" will come back and bite them hard.


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## elbows (Aug 17, 2011)

Yeah Im not convinced it was a clever tactic on Apples part at all, it creates some unease amongst some of their supporters, and it may even have provided some much needed publicity for the Samsung Tab.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 17, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yeah Im not convinced it was a clever tactic on Apples part at all, it creates some unease amongst some of their supporters, and it may even have provided some much needed publicity for the Samsung Tab.



I doubt any unease will be that high given the tens of millions of units sold, a few disgruntled fanbois won't be something Apple will care about. They're now the most valuable company in the world, they can afford to exploit that position even if it means a few thousand people won't buy their stuff.


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## editor (Sep 16, 2011)

Proof perhaps that Android is gaining real traction in the tablet world:

Android gets the nod for in-flight entertainment on Boeing 787 Dreamliner
http://androidcommunity.com/android...ertainment-on-boeing-787-dreamliner-20110915/


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## elbows (Sep 18, 2011)

Thats an interesting niche for them to get into, but I don't take it as something that has much bearing on the tablet world.

More broadly I'd say its a sign of how Android is well positioned to end up embedded in all sorts of places & devices.


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## editor (Sep 18, 2011)

Well, it's a reflection of how Android is starting to inhabit the kind of area that was very much seen as the iPad's territory.


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## elbows (Oct 16, 2011)

What was the final conclusion about the Xoom? I ask because my mate just got one as it seems the price in the UK remained far below the original silly RRP. I think my friend got one because he couldn't handle the idea of not having a memory slot (understandable) but also because some salesman managed to convince him that the spec of the Xoom was way better than the iPad, and in this sense the original high RRP could be used to further imply how superior the Xoom hardware was, and what a bargain it is at the lower £329ish price. But I suspect that some of the flaws of the Xoom rather negate certain theoretically impressive specs, and wondered what the reality was?


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## editor (Oct 24, 2011)

Apple's tablet market share has crashed by a third as Android tablets grow in popularity.


> In the last three month sales period, Android-powered tablet computers grabbed over a quarter of all global sales (26.9 per cent), a huge leap from the tiny 2.3 per cent of the market it held last year.
> 
> According to Strategy Analytics, the growth of Android tablets has seen the iPad lose nearly a third of its market share, crashing from 96 per cent to a year ago to 67 per cent today.
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-ipad-market-share-crashes-as-android-tablets-soar-in-popularity/


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 24, 2011)

I must admit, I was resolutely 'iPad all the way' but now the growth in Android tablet apps is catching my eye.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 24, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I must admit, I was resolutely 'iPad all the way' but now the growth in Android tablet apps is catching my eye.



Yes, I think the ipad still defiantly has the edge at the moment, but the gap is going to close fast!


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## cliche guevara (Oct 24, 2011)

The iPad certainly has the edge in terms of dedicated tablet apps. There is some very nice Android hardware on the market though, and hopefully ICS will address the lack of tablet specific apps.


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## pinkmonkey (Oct 24, 2011)

Is it the apps or is it because they've suddenly started charging more sensible prices?


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## grit (Oct 26, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> Is it the apps or is it because they've suddenly started charging more sensible prices?



The standard level of quality in the Android market is very low, hopfully a few decent tablets would motivatate people to improve things. Its the classic chicken and egg sitaution.

I think one of the main drivers with this, is people loyal to the kindle brand and price.


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## editor (Oct 26, 2011)

grit said:


> The standard level of quality in the Android market is very low...


Are you sure about that? _Really?  _I've got nearly 130 apps on my Android device and the quality is very good indeed.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 26, 2011)

editor said:


> Are you sure about that? _Really? _I've got nearly 130 apps on my Android device and the quality is very good indeed.


The paid apps were consistently piss poor enough for me to give up buying any and all Android apps late last year (early this year?)

Not one or two of them; I don't think I found a single one that I still use - on my Desire - or which I was using more than a week after I got it. That's out of - IIRC - 45-50 apps that incurred a 'foreign transaction' charge from Natwest (those're the only ones I explicitly counted); so there's probably another 10-20 paid for in GBP on top of that.

Things like... is it Office2Go? Documents2Go? was one of the only 'premium' apps I ever returned to; and the quality of that was so shockingly piss-poor that it really was an 'oh fuck I need to read this spreadsheet / document and don't have anything better' solution rather than anything remotely functional for even the most basic of purposes.

Then again, things might've changed drastically since then; my selection might've been particularly poor (though the 'ratings' on most of the apps I bought - not to mention the free ones - was 4-5*, which I don't think means a great deal as most of the reviewers are pushing their own wares / codes...); and your and my app choices (and areas of interest) clearly vary.

e2a: facebook and GPS came with the Desire; for pretty much everything else, I've used my iPod (by preference), occasionally using the Desire's wifi hotspot if those apps needed internet.


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## editor (Oct 26, 2011)

I use programs like Tweetdeck (better than iPhone version), Wordfeud, Wordpress, Kindle, Google Docs, Vignette, BBC News, Guardian Anywhere, Pulse, GMaps (better than iPhone version) Jorte etc and they're all every bit as good as anything I ever found on the iPhone.


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## grit (Oct 26, 2011)

editor said:


> Are you sure about that? _Really? _I've got nearly 130 apps on my Android device and the quality is very good indeed.



In comparison to the App Store they are of a lower quality, generally, thats not to say there are not good ones. The market itself is also pretty shit for discovery.

Its just down to the android market not generating the same amount of revenue for developers as the app store.


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## pinkmonkey (Oct 26, 2011)

You do get lots of the same apps accross the platforms though? Although I've a couple of great games on Webos that I noticed were not available on Android, but were on Ipad.  I think I mentioned before my brothers company no longer writes tablet apps for Android, they consider it, 'not worth the bother.'  Anyhoo, I reckon my next phone might be Android.


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## editor (Oct 26, 2011)

grit said:


> In comparison to the App Store they are of a lower quality, generally, thats not to say there are not good ones. The market itself is also pretty shit for discovery.


The good ones are, generally, every bit as good as the iPhone ones.

Google Maps is far better - there's proper sat nav built in for free, for starters -  and loads of apps are easier to use because of widgets.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Google Maps is far better - there's proper sat nav built in for free, for starters - and loads of apps are easier to use because of widgets.



It's good for free software, but there have been enough glitches in it at key times, that for driving I've gone back to my garmin. It's a shame as the software is better. That it's still bloody handy to have to your pocket in a town you don't know.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 28, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> You do get lots of the same apps accross the platforms though? Although I've a couple of great games on Webos that I noticed were not available on Android, but were on Ipad.  I think I mentioned before my brothers company no longer writes tablet apps for Android, they consider it, 'not worth the bother.'  Anyhoo, I reckon my next phone might be Android.


You'd be a bit nuts to develop a professional paid app for Android rather than iOS at the moment. You will make far more money on iOS. The same app on both platforms using some sort of conversion - perhaps, if it's not too much bother. I'm writing an iOS app at the moment for work using Unity (a games dev system which will export projects that you can build for iOS and also Android) and, while the main focus is the iPad, I wouldn't have any issue building it for Android too - I'm not prepared to put any great effort into it though. If it builds and runs straight off, fine, if it's going to be a bitch, forget it. (There's also the issue that I don't know anybody with an Android tablet to test it on anyway.)


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## elbows (Oct 29, 2011)

And the cost of an Android license for Unity, sadly.


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 29, 2011)

editor said:


> The good ones are, generally, every bit as good as the iPhone ones.
> 
> Google Maps is far better - there's proper sat nav built in for free, for starters -  and loads of apps are easier to use because of widgets.



Speaking as an android user, you're clutching at straws. It's miles behind iOS on the app front.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 29, 2011)

elbows said:


> And the cost of an Android license for Unity, sadly.


Yeah, there is that, though it's not an amount that would put off an actual development company. It could certainly put off a bedroom developer.


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## editor (Oct 29, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Speaking as an android user, you're clutching at straws. It's miles behind iOS on the app front.


Speaking as an ex-iPhone user, I'm not.


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 29, 2011)

Yes, but, to be frank you're more than a little 'Android-leaning'.


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## editor (Oct 29, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yes, but, to be frank you're more than a little 'Android-leaning'.


I've 'leant' to Palm webOS, iOS and Android in the last two years - and bought all the phones myself - and I may well lean to Windows Phone next, so I think I'm better placed than most to give a balanced opinion here. If I found Android wanting on the app front, I'd switch to something else. But I don't.


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 29, 2011)

editor said:


> I've 'leant' to Palm webOS, iOS and Android in the last two years - and bought all the phones myself - and I may well lean to Windows Phone next, so I think I'm better placed than most to give a balanced opinion here. If I found Android wanting on the app front, I'd switch to something else. But I don't.



You don't find it wanting, I do. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find some stats on iOS' relative wealth of apps. Especially on the tablet front.


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## editor (Oct 29, 2011)

There's going to be more apps on Android soon:


> Android now leads iOS in the total number of apps downloaded, as Google’s open-source strategy both helps and hurts the platform.
> 
> The Android platform was responsible for 44 percent of all mobile app downloads in the second quarter of 2011, as opposed to iOS’s 31 percent, according to ABI Research....
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You'd be a bit nuts to develop a professional paid app for Android rather than iOS at the moment. You will make far more money on iOS. The same app on both platforms using some sort of conversion - perhaps, if it's not too much bother. I'm writing an iOS app at the moment for work using Unity (a games dev system which will export projects that you can build for iOS and also Android) and, while the main focus is the iPad, I wouldn't have any issue building it for Android too - I'm not prepared to put any great effort into it though. If it builds and runs straight off, fine, if it's going to be a bitch, forget it. (There's also the issue that I don't know anybody with an Android tablet to test it on anyway.)



This. I know some people who are just getting into mobile app building and both have said Android isn't worth it if you're serious about making money at some point.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2011)

editor said:


> Speaking as an ex-iPhone user, I'm not.



LOL! You had one for about a month, you can't honestly think that counts as serious long term experience??


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## ChrisFilter (Oct 29, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This. I know some people who are just getting into mobile app building and both have said Android isn't worth it if you're serious about making money at some point.



That will cease to be the case, though. 

So, ed, mid 2012 before Android catches up. What I said was fair enough then.


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## London_Calling (Oct 29, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You'd be a bit nuts to develop a professional paid app for Android rather than iOS at the moment. You will make far more money on iOS.


For thems of us that don't know, why is this the case?


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## editor (Oct 29, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! You had one for about a month, you can't honestly think that counts as serious long term experience??


Six months, actually.


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## editor (Oct 29, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This. I know some people who are just getting into mobile app building and both have said Android isn't worth it if you're serious about making money at some point.


For every money making app there's thousands that barely make a bean. On all platforms.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 29, 2011)

Come on Ed, I'm one of the biggest Android fans around, but even I have to admit that iOS is still way ahead when it comes to the breadth and quality of apps available.


This will inevitably change, but for now Apple are ahead.


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## editor (Oct 29, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Come on Ed, I'm one of the biggest Android fans around, but even I have to admit that iOS is still way ahead when it comes to the breadth and quality of apps available.
> 
> This will inevitably change, but for now Apple are ahead.


Hang on: I've *never* claimed that there are more apps available on Android (although there will be soon) or that all of them are of the same quality. What am I saying is that there are still loads of high quality apps available for Android that easily match their iPhone equivalents.

I've got 130 apps available on my phone and just about all of them are every bit as good as the equivalent apps I had on my iPhone. In fact, some are better.


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