# Republican dissidents join forces to form a new IRA



## Red Storm (Jul 26, 2012)

> Exclusive: Merged organisation says it is planning to intensify attacks on security forces and other British-related targets




Guardian reporting on a new IRA being formed out of RAAD, the RIRA and a few smaller groups. CIRA are left out however.

Will this intensify the attacks in the North?

I don't think that the attacks will get much worse than they are at the moment.


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## Red Storm (Jul 26, 2012)

Statement from the new IRA.



> "Following extensive consultations, Irish republicans and a number of organisations involved in armed actions against the armed forces of the British crown have come together within a unified structure, under a single leadership, subservient to the constitution of the Irish Republican Army.
> "The leadership of the Irish Republican Army remains committed to the full realisation of the ideals and principles enshrined in the Proclamation of 1916.
> "In recent years the establishment of a free and independent Ireland has suffered setbacks due to the failure among the leadership of Irish nationalism and fractures within republicanism. The root cause of conflict in our country is the subversion of the nation's inalienable right to self-determination and this has yet to be addressed. Instead the Irish people have been sold a phoney peace, rubber-stamped by a token legislature in Stormont.
> "Non-conformist republicans are being subjected to harassment, arrest and violence by the forces of the British crown; others have been interned on the direction of an English overlord. It is Britain, not the IRA, which has chosen provocation and conflict.
> ...


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## dylanredefined (Jul 26, 2012)

Oh for fucks sake why? The Brits are not going to quit NI as they would look weak and Eire does not want them till they start acting sane
and your not going to be able to chase the loyalists out.

  Just in time for the Army to come back from Afghanistan with all its new toys.
Are they being sponsered by BAE or what


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## Red Storm (Jul 26, 2012)

Founding statements from the previous incarnations of the IRA can be found here.


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## Deareg (Jul 26, 2012)

I think right now their time would be better used by forming a political party that would actually work on behalf of the working class.


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## N_igma (Jul 26, 2012)

Deareg said:


> I think right now their time would be better used by forming a political party that would actually work on behalf of the working class.


 
I would agree with this but like it or not, there'll always be an armed struggle of sorts as long as the North remains under British rule.


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## Deareg (Jul 26, 2012)

N_igma said:


> I would agree with this but like it or not, there'll always be an armed struggle of sorts as long as the North remains under British rule.


I know that, but right now there is very little support or interest in any armed struggle.


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## Nigel (Jul 26, 2012)

Cannot see how armed struggle at this time could lead to anything.
Like others have said building and supporting mass movements for change and cross boarder activity for self determination would be productive.
However it appears that loyalists are increasing sectarian attacks and nationalists and republicans need to be increasingly more on their guard against these 'people' attacking their communities so some military activity is necessary.

It would have been good if the Provos had stood by the position of 'NOT A BULLET NOT AN OUNCE' standing firm and making sure that such a capitulation was not up for negotiation under the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement.


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## Garek (Jul 27, 2012)

dylanredefined said:


> Oh for fucks sake why? The Brits are not going to quit NI as they would look weak and Eire does not want them till they start acting sane
> and your not going to be able to chase the loyalists out.


 
'Eire'?


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## revol68 (Jul 27, 2012)

N_igma said:


> I would agree with this but like it or not, there'll always be an armed struggle of sorts as long as the North remains under British rule.



Yes because that's  natural law and not a conscious political decision by fuckwits.

Is loyalist violence not also inevitable in a united ireland?


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## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yes because that's natural law and not a conscious political decision by fuckwits.
> 
> Is loyalist violence not also inevitable in a united ireland?


strangely loyalist violence is also inevitable in a divided ireland. share with us your insights on how loyalist violence may be ended.


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## revol68 (Jul 27, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> strangely loyalist violence is also inevitable in a divided ireland. share with us your insights on how loyalist violence may be ended.


 
I think there is no solution based on a nationalist premises, be they british or irish.

But by tallying up the dissidents violence as a mere reaction to northern irelands place within the united kingdom is apologist bullshit for a tiny band of backward gobshites, who are irrelevant to the vast majority of people from all backgrounds.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I think there is no solution based on a nationalist premises, be they british or irish.
> 
> But by tallying up the dissidents violence as a mere reaction to northern irelands place within the united kingdom is apologist bullshit for a tiny band of backward gobshites, who are irrelevant to the vast majority of people from all backgrounds.


no, i asked 'share with us your insights on how loyalist violence may be ended' not 'please post up a load of irrelevant waffle'.


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## treelover (Jul 27, 2012)

awful news, will they ever learn, only thing now is to 'neutralise' them quick...


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## DotCommunist (Jul 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yes because that's natural law and not a conscious political decision by fuckwits.
> 
> Is loyalist violence not also inevitable in a united ireland?


 
loyalists are a bit crap at it tho.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 27, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Statement from the new IRA.


 
Hmm. They sound like they might, just possibly, be twats.


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## framed (Jul 27, 2012)

Ironically, developments like this take the pressure of Sinn Fein politically, exactly the opposite of what these groups intend. If there was as much effort put into developing a left-republican critique of Sinn Fein and an alternative political strategy we would be in a far better place... imho.


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## N_igma (Jul 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Is loyalist violence not also inevitable in a united ireland?


 
Yes! Price to pay for partition eh?


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

framed said:


> Ironically, developments like this take the pressure of Sinn Fein politically, exactly the opposite of what these groups intend. If there was as much effort put into developing a left-republican critique of Sinn Fein and an alternative political strategy we would be in a far better place... imho.


 
There are at least two "left republican" parties already, in the form of the IRSP and Eirigi. Neither appear to be doing particularly well.


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## Casually Red (Jul 27, 2012)

Nigel said:


> It would have been good if the Provos had stood by the position of 'NOT A BULLET NOT AN OUNCE' standing firm and making sure that such a capitulation was not up for negotiation under the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement.


 
they had already surrendered their positon on that issue when their leadership accepted the Mitchell principles , as a precondition/entry fee to get into the negotiations in the first place . In fact thanks to the Mitchell principles there  was fuck all left to negotiate when they got to the table . The Mitchell principles delegitimised the republican position and legitmised the British position before talks even got underway .


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## Casually Red (Jul 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I think there is no solution based on a nationalist premises, be they british or irish.
> 
> But by tallying up the dissidents violence as a mere reaction to northern irelands place within the united kingdom is apologist bullshit for a tiny band of backward gobshites, who are irrelevant to the vast majority of people from all backgrounds.


 
how relevant would you consider your own groupuscule ?


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## Deareg (Jul 27, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> There are at least two "left republican" parties already, in the form of the IRSP and Eirigi. Neither appear to be doing particularly well.


There is no chance of them joining the IRSP as the majority of them will be ex Provos, Were Eirigi one of the groups amalgamating does anyone know?


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

Deareg said:


> There is no chance of them joining the IRSP as the majority of them will be ex Provos, Were Eirigi one of the groups amalgamating does anyone know?


 
No. Eirigi argue that "armed struggle" is inadvisable in current conditions. As do the IRSP.

I would guess that the 32CSM will be the "political wing", such as it is, of this new amalgam.


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> how relevant would you consider your own groupuscule ?


 
I don't think he's in a "groupuscule".


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## Casually Red (Jul 27, 2012)

Deareg said:


> There is no chance of them joining the IRSP as the majority of them will be ex Provos, Were Eirigi one of the groups amalgamating does anyone know?


 
its a number of armed groups which have amalgamated,  not political groups.


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## Deareg (Jul 27, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> its a number of armed groups which have amalgamated, not political groups.


A lot of them especially anyone getting senior positions within the new group will most likely be members of Republican political parties as well.


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## framed (Jul 27, 2012)

Eirigi, as an organisation, is still relatively young. I think there's some hope there politically, because they appear to be genuinely interested in developing a left alternative to SF that is not based on the primacy of the armed struggle.

Despite having many friends who passed through that movement, the IRSP/INLA have not been a credible political force for many years, if they ever were... imho.

Brian Hanley's history of the Stickies - _The Lost Revolution_ - is a fascinating insight into the political mindset of past and present republican leaders, as well as the political manouvering and jockeying for position within republicanism. The blind allegiance, political cynicism, as well as the acceptance of the almost inevitable and habitual internal bloodshed, is more than disturbing and has had a big effect on my view of the current crop of 'wannabes' and 'also rans' lining up to lead Ireland into the new dawn.

I welcome a re-evaluation of republican history and principles along political rather than military lines. It's not just the 'primacy of politics' that should be promoted imho, because that simply plays into the hands of the ultra nationalist apparatchiks now driving Sinn Fein's 'nation building' agenda, who argue that there is no alternative to their attempts to unite Ireland from the top down. It's the primacy of LEFT politics, a working class alternative to gombeen nationalism, that needs to be developed.


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

framed said:


> Eirigi, as an organisation, is still relatively young. I think there's some hope there politically, because they appear to be genuinely interested in developing a left alternative to SF that is not based on the primacy of the armed struggle.


 
Eirigi look more vigorous than the IRSP, and they don't have the handicap of the Irps history. But it seems to me that they aren't particularly well organised and they seem to punch below their numerical weight when compared to other left groups.


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

Deareg said:


> A lot of them especially anyone getting senior positions within the new group will most likely be members of Republican political parties as well.


 
Eirigi and/or the IRSP would have to be nuts to allow their members to be involved in an armed faction which isn't linked to their own party. Now fringe Republican circles have never been any nuts short of a bird feeder, but even still...


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## Deareg (Jul 27, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Eirigi and/or the IRSP would have to be nuts to allow their members to be involved in an armed faction which isn't linked to their own party. Now fringe Republican circles have never been any nuts short of a bird feeder, but even still...


I think it is taboo for any member of any Republican group to get involved with another group, that is standard practice, the IRSP stood in last summers elections and did reasonably well considering very few of them had any electoral experience and they were almost completely ignored by the media with the Daily Mirror not even including them when they printed the list of parties that were standing, they came very close to getting a seat in Strabane, losing the seat on a recount by half a vote, however the fuck that can be managed.


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

Deareg said:


> I think it is taboo for any member of any Republican group to get involved with another group, that is standard practice, the IRSP stood in last summers elections and did reasonably well considering very few of them had any electoral experience and they were almost completely ignored by the media with the Daily Mirror not even including them when they printed the list of parties that were standing, they came very close to getting a seat in Strabane, losing the seat on a recount by half a vote, however the fuck that can be managed.


 
Yes, although it was a prominent member of Eirigi who got charged with (and was then acquitted of) the Real IRA-claimed Massareene shootings, as a general rule joining political groups unaffiliated with your armed group would seem like a crudely unnecessary invitation towards feuding.

The IRSP candidates got a few respectable votes in the council elections, you are right, but nothing particularly earthshaking. IIRC, they and Eirigi managed an electoral clash in at least one ward, which is quite some going when you are only standing in a handful of seats. Generally, there just doesn't seem to be much life or organisation to the IRSP and in the South it's almost entirely invisible. Eirigi manages a somewhat higher profile, not that it's saying much.

I still have absolutely no idea what the political differences between the two groups are. There doesn't seem to be a word on the website of either group that couldn't appear on the other. About the only reason for their continued separation that I can think of is Eirigi's apparently low regard for the Irps.


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## Deareg (Jul 27, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> I still have absolutely no idea what the political differences between the two groups are. There doesn't seem to be a word on the website of either group that couldn't appear on the other. About the only reason for their continued separation that I can think of is Eirigi's apparently low regard for the Irps.


 
Eirigi are ex Provos, if you know anything of the Provo mentality that should answer your question.


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## framed (Jul 27, 2012)

I presume that some level of political co-operation between the two would exist at an activist level, but to be honest I am not surprised that Eirigi would want to keep some distance between themselves and the IRSP. It's also misleading to infer that all Eirigi members are ex-Provos. The leadership are certainly drawn from the left of the provisional movement, but there's been an influx of young people into their organisation across the island that suggests that they will soon leave behind the 'ex-provos' tag that other anti-GFA republicans find all too convenient to ascribe to them.


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

framed said:


> I presume that some level of political co-operation between the two would exist at an activist level, but to be honest I am not surprised that Eirigi would want to keep some distance between themselves and the IRSP. It's also misleading to infer that all Eirigi members are ex-Provos. The leadership are certainly drawn from the left of the provisional movement, but there's been an influx of young people into their organisation across the island that suggests that they will soon leave behind the 'ex-provos' tag that other anti-GFA republicans find all too convenient to ascribe to them.


 
An influx strikes me as a bit of an overstatement. Eirigi are still a small outfit and all of their leading figures are ex-Provos, or at least all the ones I can think of. But you are right that a high percentage of their rank and file don't seem to have ever been involved in the Provos. They looked like they might have a bit of wind behind them for a while a few years back, but it's been a long time since they were enjoying any perceptible growth and they seem to be a bit of an organisational mess. Plus, like the Irps, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of a detailed or coherent politics there beyond "the socialist republic". If that was my outlook, I'd see them as more viable contenders than the Irps, but I still don't really expect them to go anywhere.

On the other issue, to be honest, even if I had Irpish politics, as Eirigi do, I wouldn't be too keen on standing too close to the actual Irps either.


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## framed (Jul 27, 2012)

Overstatement acknowledged. 

I agree with you that they appear to have stagnated in the last while, but I hold out some hope for them that they will not follow others down the usual republican blind alleys. As I said earlier, I'd like to see some political development _amongst republicans_ take place that can devise a left alternative to Sinn Fein. I don't know if Eirigi are the group that can do it, but the very fact that they did emerge from the provisionals probably puts them on a better footing than most to examine and re-define their own republicanism from a left wing perspective.


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## Nigel Irritable (Jul 27, 2012)

I wouldn't be particularly optimistic about the chances of a viable left wing path forward coming out of Republicanism any time soon, but I suppose if that's the project you want, Eirigi are certainly a better bet than the "learn nothing, forget nothing" types involved in the regroupment this thread was originally about.

Reenacting the Provos failed war, only with less members, less support, less guns and an organisation which seems to be well and truly penetrated, is the plan of an imbecile. The Provos didn't lose because they sold out, they sold out because they lost. Their halfwitted little brothers aren't going to do any better.


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## framed (Jul 27, 2012)

Actually Nigel, I think this is precisely where the leadership of Sinn Fein always wanted to be, or at least since the end of the Hunger Strike in 1981. The party bureaucracy have done very well out of the 'peace dividend'. They have jobs and career prospects - everyone's a winner (at least everyone that bites the bullet and does as they are told).

Richard O'Rawe's two books - Blanketmen and Afterlives - were the real eye-openers for me. If O'Rawe is telling the truth (_and I have little reason to doubt him, because Afterlives is a more meticulously researched and referenced book than the first_) it puts the current leadership of Irish republicanism on a par with the cynical Machiavellianism of DeValera.

Oops! Dev's been mentioned - time for a trip to the pub!


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## DownwardDog (Jul 28, 2012)

dylanredefined said:


> Just in time for the Army to come back from Afghanistan with all its new toys.


 
The only things the British Army has learned in Basra and Helmand are how to be completely passive and reactive leading to inevitable defeat. I really doubt they've got the brass ringpiece for a square go with the PIRA any longer.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 28, 2012)

it won't be PIRA though


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## dylanredefined (Jul 28, 2012)

DownwardDog said:


> The only things the British Army has learned in Basra and Helmand are how to be completely passive and reactive leading to inevitable defeat. I really doubt they've got the brass ringpiece for a square go with the PIRA any longer.


                             Not like PIRA were keen on that anyway. They do have a lot more drones and armour.So ied and sniping is a lot harder
and the security forces ability to know what's going on is a lot better.And the RAF have learned finally how to fly support helicopters.
      I doubt the locals want another round though.
  It is suspicious with Afghanistan winding down someone wants to start NI up again. Wonder if KBR and Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves this week) are preparing contracts to assist the security forces.


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## Idris2002 (Jul 28, 2012)

Even in the worst of the bad old days, NI didn't come close to the Afghan situation. . . so I doubt if the shadowy men in shadowy places are trying to restart the shooting war just for the sake of KBR's bottom line.

Is there any information on why RSF|CIRA haven't joined this lash-up. Is it just because they seem themselves as the holders of the sacred flame of the first dail (they were endorsed by the last survivor of the first dail when RSF split from Gerry's gang in 1986) or some other reason?


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 28, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> Is there any information on why RSF|CIRA haven't joined this lash-up. Is it *just because they seem themselves as the holders of the sacred flame of the first dail (they were endorsed by the last survivor of the first dail when RSF split from Gerry's gang in 1986)* or some other reason?


 
Surely that's the reason.


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## Casually Red (Aug 11, 2012)

[quote="framed, post: 11383082, member:


> Eirigi, as an organisation, is still relatively young. I think there's some hope there politically, because they appear to be genuinely interested in developing a left alternative to SF that is not based on the primacy of the armed struggle.
> 
> Despite having many friends who passed through that movement, the IRSP/INLA have not been a credible political force for many years, if they ever were... imho.
> 
> Brian Hanley's history of the Stickies - _The Lost Revolution_ - is a fascinating insight into the political mindset of past and present republican leaders, as well as the political manouvering and jockeying for position within republicanism. _The blind allegiance, political cynicism, as well as the acceptance of the almost inevitable and habitual internal bloodshed, is more than disturbing and has had a big effect on my view of the current crop of 'wannabes' and 'also rans' lining up to lead Ireland into the new dawn._


 
and yet despite the series of splits since 1998 right upto now there has been absolutely no feuding, despite repeated provocations from the provos towards those who split from them . Your analysis of current events, inded those of the past 14 years- would appear to be well askew.



> I welcome a re-evaluation of republican history and principles along political rather than military lines. It's not just the 'primacy of politics' that should be promoted imho, because that simply plays into the hands of the ultra nationalist apparatchiks now driving Sinn Fein's 'nation building' agenda, who argue that there is no alternative to their attempts to unite Ireland from the top down. It's the primacy of LEFT politics, a working class alternative to gombeen nationalism, that needs to be developed.


 
This usually means forget about the issue of conflict , the foreign occupation of the national territory, and the violation of the peoples sovereignty that this entails . Or put it on the long finger and pay lip service to it. The sticks used this as an excusae for all sorts of shenanigans and degenerated into complete and utter reactionaries spouting hardline class rhetoric to justify support for imperialism in their own country. And worse.
The apparatchiks driving sinn arent ultra nationalist by any means . If anything theyre 2 nationists who arent attempting to unite Ireland from any direction . Theyre quite comfortable with partition and do quite well out of it politically and financially . They have no challenge to it whasoever, in fact theyve signed up to numerous treaties which fully legitmise the violation of the Irish peoples sovereignty and criminalise the upholding of the Irish sovereignty position .


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## Casually Red (Aug 11, 2012)

dylanredefined said:


> It is suspicious with Afghanistan winding down someone wants to start NI up again. Wonder if KBR and Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves this week) are preparing contracts to assist the security forces.


 
 a conspiracy theory too far methinks. Whats happening now is an inevitable consequence of it inescapably dawning on Irish republicans that the provos are actually doing what they signed up to , desite assurances to their base it was only a ruse/formality etc . And the realisation that sinn feins strategy has long been a load of old wank .


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## dylanredefined (Aug 11, 2012)

Your right though I'm sure they will be quite happy to profit from any upsurge in violence.
     Still not sure what the new group  can achieve? UK government will not give up NI as it would be seen as being weak and a lot of loyalists wish to remain British ,and ,the  republic don't want to deal with the loyalist population if their not happy to be reunited.


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## likesfish (Aug 12, 2012)

Unless something changes with a non sectarian mass movement a few murders one way or another isnt going to change things.
  Prods are still going to be 50% ish.
 The nhs a welfare state and all the lovely uk tax payers money vs the euro nightmare might make a border poll unIkely anytime soon.
   Forcing the brits out by military means is a non starter
  Forcing them out by making them tired of the senseless conflict unlikely.


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## cemertyone (Aug 14, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Prods are still going to be 50% ish.
> .


There not actually..(above) the population of the "unionist"
community is on the decline. Catholic school age children comprise
a much bigger % of the poulation than our unionist friends.
There is still a large section of unionist university graduates (mainly educated
in Scotland and beyond) who never return.
And within the next generation catholics will comprise the largest part of the population...


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## Favelado (Aug 14, 2012)

cemertyone said:


> There not actually..(above) the population of the "unionist"
> community is on the decline. Catholic school age children comprise
> a much bigger % of the poulation than our unionist friends.
> There is still a large section of unionist university graduates (mainly educated
> ...


 
Ha. I read that article that one article in the Irish Times you got all that from too.


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## likesfish (Aug 14, 2012)

Its not going to be a massive imbalance either way for the forseeable future .
 So the irish armys tanks will not be rolling into belfast as the brits flee by helicopter. Just yet


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## revol68 (Aug 14, 2012)

cemertyone said:


> There not actually..(above) the population of the "unionist"
> community is on the decline. Catholic school age children comprise
> a much bigger % of the poulation than our unionist friends.
> There is still a large section of unionist university graduates (mainly educated
> ...


 
but there is the small fact that a sizable number of catholics have no desire to join the Republic, nor can the Republic afford the north even if it wanted it.

It's going to be a long process of cross border bodies and European integration (though eurozone crisis might well hamper that) with devolution seeing republicans and unionist politicians implementing more and more neo liberal reforms (read attacks) perfectly in keeping with Dublin, Brussels and London.

The only unity that should be of interest is that between the working classes across all the british isles, europe and ultimately the world, the rest of it is just a fucking charade.


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## revol68 (Aug 14, 2012)

cemertyone said:


> There not actually..(above) the population of the "unionist"
> community is on the decline. Catholic school age children comprise
> a much bigger % of the poulation than our unionist friends.
> There is still a large section of unionist university graduates (mainly educated
> ...


 
also shouldn't republicans be deeply ashamed of putting their hopes in demographics ie a sectarian headcount. For all the lip service to Wolfetone, the United Irishmen and the like, the sad truth is that republicanism puts it's hope in "outbreeding them lot" or if you are one of the dissies "blowing the fuck out of things".


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## Deareg (Aug 14, 2012)

revol68 said:


> also shouldn't republicans be deeply ashamed of putting their hopes in demographics ie a sectarian headcount. For all the lip service to Wolfetone, the United Irishmen and the like, the sad truth is that republicanism puts it's hope in "outbreeding them lot" or if you are one of the dissies "blowing the fuck out of things".


better to fuck than fight surely?


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## revol68 (Aug 14, 2012)

Deareg said:


> better to fuck than fight surely?


 
Armalite, breeding and ballot box.


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## N_igma (Aug 14, 2012)

revol68 said:


> also shouldn't republicans be deeply ashamed of putting their hopes in demographics ie a sectarian headcount. For all the lip service to Wolfetone, the United Irishmen and the like, the sad truth is that republicanism puts it's hope in "outbreeding them lot" or if you are one of the dissies "blowing the fuck out of things".


 
I don't think any republicans seriously put their hope in that. I know both Unionists and Republicans, as a matter of policy, are appealing to the "other side" about the benefits of staying in the Union/United Ireland respectively this past couple of years.


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## Casually Red (Aug 14, 2012)

revol68 said:


> also shouldn't republicans be deeply ashamed of putting their hopes in demographics ie a sectarian headcount..


 
for once id agree with you, its repulsive to hear such shit talk . But thats also because thats the very routemap and  politics Britian and the USA prescribed for the 6 counties . They should be fucking ashamed of themselves too . But lets not mention the fact theres actual imperialism going on . That would be nationalistic. Or something.



> For all the lip service to Wolfetone, the United Irishmen and the like, the sad truth is that republicanism puts it's hope in "outbreeding them lot"


 
except thats not republicanism . Its a result of republicanism being abandoned in favour of British constitutionalism and British parliamentarianism in Ireland. Its British politics in Ireland , not republican politics.



> or if you are one of the dissies "blowing the fuck out of things"


 
thats a complete and utter oversimplification . Not everyone who disagrees with the imperialist system favours a return to armed struggle . Not by a longshot . Your displaying a complete and total - and most likely wilful -ignorance around this issue.
.


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## rekil (Sep 9, 2012)

Guardian - 500 at Dublin funeral of murdered Real IRA man







A bit about the shooting here.

The indo naturally had to crowbar something about forrins in.

Gardai hunting foreign hitman in Alan Ryan murder

It's been mayhem lately.


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## Red Storm (Sep 9, 2012)

copliker said:


> Guardian - 500 at Dublin funeral of murdered Real IRA man
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
There seems to be big difference in estimated numbers at the funerals.

I was also surprised to see the police allowed a volley of shots at the funeral.


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## Deareg (Sep 9, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I was also surprised to see the police allowed a volley of shots at the funeral.


They don't.


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## Red Storm (Sep 9, 2012)

Deareg said:


> They don't.


 
The Belfast Telegraph reported that they were allowed to fire shots outside his home and at the graveside. 

Or do you mean the police have no choice in the matter?


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## Deareg (Sep 10, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> The Belfast Telegraph reported that they were allowed to fire shots outside his home and at the graveside.
> 
> Or do you mean the police have no choice in the matter?


If the gardaí had been aware that it was going to happen they would have swamped the area, if they heard the shots and did not intervene it would have been because they did not have the necessary manpower to do so, but their is no way that permission would have been sought nor given.


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## Idris2002 (Sep 10, 2012)

Get it while it lasts, because I doubt if it will be up for long (I think the Phoenix only does these as a promo thing), but here's a link to a bit of the Phoenix mag (Irish equivalent of Private Eye, but with crap jokes) on this self-styled New IRA:

http://www.thephoenix.ie/phoenix/subscriber/library/volume-30/issue-16/page-02-08.pdf

You'll have to scroll down for the IRA story.


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## kebabking (Sep 10, 2012)

Deareg said:


> If the gardaí had been aware that it was going to happen they would have swamped the area, if they heard the shots and did not intervene it would have been because they did not have the necessary manpower to do so, but their is no way that permission would have been sought nor given.


 
I heard Alan Shatter, the RoI's Justice (and Defence) minister on RTE this morning - the reasoning he used was quite logical: a handful of 'activists' with weapons, a funeral with all the emotions that would entail, perhaps 200 friends, family and supporters - and a load of Armed Garda intent on arresting the armed party.

the death toll would go into tens...

instead the Garda watch, listen, and build a picture - who talks to who, who says what, who goes where.

some will get lifted, some will squeel, and SB's int files will bulge. nothing like a good funeral to bring out the players.


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## Deareg (Sep 10, 2012)

kebabking said:


> I heard Alan Shatter, the RoI's Justice (and Defence) minister on RTE this morning - the reasoning he used was quite logical: a handful of 'activists' with weapons, a funeral with all the emotions that would entail, perhaps 200 friends, family and supporters - and a load of Armed Garda intent on arresting the armed party.
> 
> the death toll would go into tens...
> 
> ...


I didn't see that interview but it all makes sense.


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## Idris2002 (Sep 13, 2012)

Now there have been arrests in connection with the shots fired over Ryan's coffin:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0913/breaking12.html

I suppose it was too politically embarrassing to do otherwise.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2012)

offences against the state  no such thing


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## likesfish (Sep 13, 2012)

A mob running about with guns and making bombs need to be jailed though.

Mi5 hq in the north is also its back up HQ as belfast less like to suffer a 9/11 style attack.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> There seems to be big difference in estimated numbers at the funerals.
> 
> I was also surprised to see the police allowed a volley of shots at the funeral.


 
i was at the funeral and there were at least 1000 people waiting for the cortege outside the chapel and the shopping centre across the road. Hundreds more were lining the streets along the route . These would have mainly been local people and neighbours paying their respects to the man who was assassinated and not political activists . As well as just the basically nosy . The cortege itself , comprising republicans from a variety of groups , was easily 800 strong . There were approximately 300 men and also some women  in black and whites escorting the coffin in 2 lines , most of them stamping their feet in military style unison as they marched and gave it quite a formidable air. Many of them were former IRA prisoners . In such circumstances thered have been a full scale riot had any attempt been made to disrupt the funeral . On 2 occasions at the start of the funeral the guys in black and whites rushed police lines , hundreds of them ran at the cops the second it even looked like they were going to block the funerals path . The cops backed off immediately. Something similar happened again at the graveyard and again the cops backed off, although there were certainly much more riot squad in evidence there .
During the funeral procession the gardai were mostly concerned with directing traffic and keeping a clear path for the cortege . On a number of occasions police were walking directly alongside the masked IRA members along the route and powerless to do anything about it. The head of the Dublin North metropolitan police attended the funeral service on his own, and as he exited the chapel he was within a few feet of the masked guard of honour who had formed up outside and just had to stand there . The head of Irish special branch was also present at the grave side and at one point was mobbed by the guys in black and whites as he approached too close to the graveside for the sensibilities of those present . Again he backed off.
Basically this new IRA and their supporters took over the streets of the capital for a few hours and the cops could do fuck all about it, except help them to do so by keeping the traffic at bay .


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

Deareg said:


> I didn't see that interview but it all makes sense.


 
in his latest remarks on the issue the little Blueshirt bastard is making section 31 type noises about the Irish media.

_"Broadcasters should not give a platform or undue prominence or credibility to such individuals or to their supporters, who show no respect for the overwhelming support given by the majority of people on this island to the Good Friday Agreement." _

http://www.independent.ie/national-...ver-platform-given-to-dissidents-3228142.html


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

Nigel said:


> It would have been good if the Provos had stood by the position of 'NOT A BULLET NOT AN OUNCE' standing firm and making sure that such a capitulation was not up for negotiation under the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement.


 
It wasnt . When the provo leadership accepted the USAs _Mitchell principles_ as an entry fee so to speak ,that had to be given before you were allowed into negotiations the issue was then decided for them before they even sat down . As were pretty much all the other issues . There was fuck all left to negotiate about when they sat down for negotiations . Theyd accepted their arms and armed groups were illegitimate while the british forces and their arms in Ireland were fully legitmate along with partition , foreign occupation and the unionist veto . They were fucked from that point on. Rendering the negotiations which folowed after wards utterly farcical .
Thats what happens when you take the ridiculous approach that Britians number one NATO ally is somehow a neutral player in the armed conflict . Utter bollocks.


eta

fuck, id already spouted off on that one before and forgot all about it.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

Gerry Adams has now come out publicly attacking the funeral , as well as supporting the police raids that saw dozens of homes torn apart , guns put to the heads of Alan Ryans surviving brothers , their arrests along with almost 20 others and even 700 euro belonging to Ryans mother being seized from her home. Like Maggie thatcher before him hes denounced republicans as nothing more than criminals.


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

Ha ha pay backs a bitch you had your day of fun now  comes the morning after.
   The whole armed conflict was a bloody farce round 2 is being a lot less bloody but more farcia

The mitchell principles because 30 years of slaughter had achieved what precisely?


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

lay off the draw for fucks sake


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## revol68 (Sep 16, 2012)

They can whinge about the Provos all they want but the facts are they learnt to deal with reality and realised that there will never be a united ireland through armed struggle.

This new generation of dissidents seem to be young people romantically wanting to relive the actions of the past coupled with a leadership of some old bitter dogs of war who have nothing to cling to but the past.

Fuck them, if they want to have their war they can have it, just don't come whinging when you get your ass handed to you.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

revol68 said:


> They can whinge about the Provos all they want but the facts are they learnt to deal with reality and realised that there will never be a united ireland through armed struggle.


 
cop the fuck on . They frequently publicly boasted theyd actually won the war and even held a victory parade when they were completely and comprehensively defeated even at the fundamentally ideological level . Thats not dealing with reality , its the exact opposite . And the disagreement with the provos is not because they became pacifists . Its because they actively legitmised foreign imperialism and then went on to actively assist it . The same imperialism your happy to support which is why you continually peddle this bullshit at every turn.



> This new generation of dissidents seem to be young people romantically wanting to relive the actions of the past coupled with a leadership of some old bitter dogs of war who have nothing to cling to but the past.


 
release a balloon for peace, for fucks sake. This is utter bollcoks as an analysis . Woeful . Especially considering Marian Price and Martin Corey are being interned by the British  today over actions which happened decades ago .



> Fuck them, if they want to have their war they can have it, just don't come whinging when you get your ass handed to you.


 
the only person ive noticed whinging here is yourself , to be frank .


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## revol68 (Sep 16, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> cop the fuck on . They frequently publicly boasted theyd actually won the war and even held a victory parade when they were completely and comprehensively defeated even at the fundamentally ideological level . Thats not dealing with reality , its the exact opposite . And the disagreement with the provos is not because they became pacifists . Its because they actively legitmised foreign imperialism and then went on to actively assist it . The same imperialism your happy to support which is why you continually peddle this bullshit at every turn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
In what meaningful way can the UK's continued domain over northern ireland be understood in terms  of an imperialist analysis? Is it the exploitation of raw materials or low wage workers? Considering the North is a massive budget deficit for British state one is left to wonder? 

it's almost like you are a typical pseudo leftist who doesn't even understand the politically shakey language they throw around.

If you can suggest some material gains the working class of Ireland and the UK would gain from a united Ireland being imposed here and now I'll eat my lovely leopard skin supreme hat.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

revol68 said:


> In what meaningful way can the UK's continued domain over northern ireland be understood in terms of an imperialist analysis? Is it the exploitation of raw materials or low wage workers? Considering the North is a massive budget deficit for British state one is left to wonder?
> .


 
you really dont get the bit about invading someone elses country , annexing it, carving it up and claiming ownership of it as of right when the natives have continually told you to fuck off. Do you ? This would appear to a be a bit on the irrelevant side in your analysis . Which is because your analysis leans heavily towards pro british imperialism when it comes to their occupation of Irish territory.




> it's almost like you are a typical pseudo leftist who doesn't even understand the politically shakey language they throw around.


 
when an imperial power occupies another smaller weaker country its actually imperialism . You just happen to be pro British imperialism in Ireland ,which is why you really don't like to see it referred to as such . Which makes you the psuedo leftist and not me .



> If you can suggest some material gains the working class of Ireland and the UK would gain from a united Ireland being imposed here and now I'll eat my lovely leopard skin supreme hat


 
if you cant see the gains for the Irish working class for an end to this despicable system of sectarianism which is propped up by britian in the north then theres little i can do for you . You support an absolutely reactionary, repugnant state of affairs alongside the state repression which is always necessary to prop it up . Youve the nerve to lecture others about leftism and then suggest in the next breath its ok for Britian to occupy someone else country because the natives will probably be financially better off . Your just a unionist fuckwit regardless of how you like to pose as something else .
I support the ownership of Ireland by the people of Ireland . You support the exact opposite of that and deny the Irish people have any such right to ownership of their own country , the sovereignty of their own nation- and by default all the imperialist shit that goes with that . Dont spout off to me about leftism and then come out with that reactionary unionist shite . Your a joke.


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

Who boasted they won the war or staged a victory parade?
   So the people who actually live in the north at the moment dont get a say?

Yeah that plan worked so well for the last thirty years didnt it.


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## revol68 (Sep 16, 2012)

So you don't actually understand what the concept of imperialism is or how it developed. Atleast have the decency to read up on something you obviously seem to put at the heart of your politics. I'll give you a little top tip, imperialism is not simply the occupation of one polity by another.

The ending of partition right now would not lead to a decrease in sectarianism, it would unleash more of it. Your analysis is based on the absurd idea that with the brits out unionism and loyalism would simply go away, that they are simply puppets of the british state and it's "imperialist" intentions. The provos are realising what the stickies knew in the 60's, a United Ireland can not be achieved without the consent of the protestant population.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Who boasted they won the war or staged a victory parade?
> it.


 
"We have won the war....now let us win the Peace" - sinn fein spokesperson Joe Cahill in an address to the sinn feinard feis in 2003

http://indiamond6.ulib.iupui.edu:81/unhunghero.html














> So the people who actually live in the north at the moment dont get a say?


 
what you meant to say was a unionist veto over national democracy in Ireland . Creating an artificial minority when the majority of the natives  unhelpfully want something different to what the empire wants .




> Yeah that plan worked so well for the last thirty years didnt it


 
you think British rule in Ireland works well instead eh ? Thats really fucking interesting . Like i said lay off the draw .


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

The British state messed up in ireland gos without saying..
 But thinking taking the border tomorrow and saying your ruled from dublin now is a disaster waiting to happen.
   Its so obviously a disaster nobody in a post that could effect that is even thinking about it.
Blowing a few more children up or killing some squaddies isnt going to change it either.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

revol68 said:


> So you don't actually understand what the concept of imperialism is or how it developed. Atleast have the decency to read up on something you obviously seem to put at the heart of your politics. I'll give you a little top tip, imperialism is not simply the occupation of one polity by another.
> .


of course theres more to it than that , and i understand the concept of the project perfectly well thank you and dont think all that much of your pretence at academic knowlege of the subject . Its a perfectly straight forward issue however your just attempting convulsions and convolution to insist there isnt and never has been british imperialism in Ireland to justify your support for the imperialist status quo in Ireland. Because as ive pointed out your a reactionary unionist with pretensions to leftism . Combined with the equally arrogant and inane view this actually makes you a better leftist than everyone else. Which is of course a complete and utter load of bollocks.



> The ending of partition right now would not lead to a decrease in sectarianism, it would unleash more of it. Your analysis is based on the absurd idea that with the brits out unionism and loyalism would simply go away, that they are simply puppets of the british state and it's "imperialist" intentions. The provos are realising what the stickies knew in the 60's, a United Ireland can not be achieved without the consent of the protestant population.


 
Partiton always has and always will sustain sectarianism . As does imperialism , which succoured it in the first place and uses it for its own ends whenever it deems necessary . Which it does today in stormont  A national minority has no right to veto democracty in the entire country just because an imperialist power backs them up with armed force. An end to british rule in Ireland would mean unionists are very firmly in the minority in Ireland , with no British army to back them up . That would most certainly lead to a major decrease in sectarianism . 
The stickies were full of shit . Most people accept this as a fact . Including many former stickies.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

likesfish said:


> The British state messed up in ireland gos without saying..
> .


 
theyre still messing things up . The set up they have here is an utter obscentiy . Its repulsive . Sectarianism is sustained and embedded in political life and portrayed as perfectly normal . Its disgusting.



> But thinking taking the border tomorrow and saying your ruled from dublin now is a disaster waiting to happen.


 
who said that ?



> Its so obviously a disaster nobody in a post that could effect that is even thinking about it.


 
nobody even said that . Republicans dont either.



> Blowing a few more children up or killing some squaddies isnt going to change it either


 
But you dont even want it changed.


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

Eventually maybe but I cant see anyone taking the risk  at the moment.


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

Dissident republicans are part of the problem not part of the solution.

Unfortunatly republicanism is sectarian for all of its talk of not being so its part of the problem as well.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Dissident republicans are part of the problem not part of the solution.
> 
> Unfortunatly republicanism is sectarian for all of its talk of not being so its part of the problem as well.


 
Irish republicanism is a reaction to the problem of British imperialism, which is the problem . And nothing will solve the problem of imperialism, and all the problems it causes,  except its demise .


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## N_igma (Sep 16, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Dissident republicans are part of the problem not part of the solution.
> 
> Unfortunatly republicanism is sectarian for all of its talk of not being so its part of the problem as well.


 
Erm all Dissident Republicans or those who use violence?


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Eventually maybe but I cant see anyone taking the risk at the moment.


 
your talking as if the political status quo actually wants change . They dont . They want it to stay exactly the same. Those taking risks to change things will come from outside the political status quo .


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2012)

what I never got was what is supposed to be done about the significant portion of the six counties who wish to remain under liz's iron heel. I'm all for a unified irish republic and troops out, let em get on with it etc. But if near half of the six counties want to remain in the union what do republicans plan to do about that- tell them to 'fuck off to england and marry it if you love it so much'?

Has their been any viable thinking about this put forward- I know a little of irish 20th century history but not much past 1970. Has there been anything posited to address that issue? genuine question, not wishing to ruffle feathers.


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

N_igma said:


> Erm all Dissident Republicans or those who use violence?



Those who use violence or have any links to it.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> what I never got was what is supposed to be done about the significant portion of the six counties who wish to remain under liz's iron heel. I'm all for a unified irish republic and troops out, let em get on with it etc. But if near half of the six counties want to remain in the union what do republicans plan to do about that- tell them to 'fuck off to england and marry it if you love it so much'?
> 
> Has their been any viable thinking about this put forward- I know a little of irish 20th century history but not much past 1970. Has there been anything posited to address that issue? genuine question, not wishing to ruffle feathers.


 
the best proposals ive seen to date are those within the republican Eire Nua documents, which proposed a federal type structure with a federal pariament for all 9 of the ulster counties , which would leave the religious balance possibly around 50 50 . republicans engaged with unionism and loyalists with these proposals on anumber of occasions during the 1970s and got a pretty positive response. Many shades of unionism made it clear at differnt times that they were proposals they could live with  in the event of a British pull out .

Gerry Adams made it a very personal crusade to have these proposals abandoned , dismissing them as a " sop to unionism" . He succeeded finally in 1983 .


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Those who use violence or have any links to it.


 
the british government uses violence . And kills kids . You seem to take a hypocritical view as regards this . Theyve a right to be in charge of someone elses country but anyone who might think of using violence back is a really bad person . 
Thats not very logical I reckon.


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## N_igma (Sep 16, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> what I never got was what is supposed to be done about the significant portion of the six counties who wish to remain under liz's iron heel. I'm all for a unified irish republic and troops out, let em get on with it etc. But if near half of the six counties want to remain in the union what do republicans plan to do about that- tell them to 'fuck off to england and marry it if you love it so much'?
> 
> Has their been any viable thinking about this put forward- I know a little of irish 20th century history but not much past 1970. Has there been anything posited to address that issue? genuine question, not wishing to ruffle feathers.


 
Well one thing's for sure...there will be more violence from loyalists and it'll sustained and prolonged.

Alternative solutions - give what used to be Northern Ireland some sort of autonomous status with extra powers such as the ability to raise their own taxes and stuff as you see in other parts of the world. Devolve certain powers to Belfast and give certain concessions to Unionists in the immediate aftermath. Basically ease them into the new nation and not saying you're ruled from Dublin as Likesfish has said.


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

How is killing a few squaddies coppers and or randoms  going to make any diffrence.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

im not into it so ive no idea. Id reckon it would make it a bit hard to suggest British rule in Ireland is perfectly normal though , particulalry when Britian inevitably responds to it.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2012)

N_igma said:


> Well one thing's for sure...there will be more violence from loyalists and it'll sustained and prolonged.
> 
> Alternative solutions - give what used to be Northern Ireland some sort of autonomous status with extra powers such as the ability to raise their own taxes and stuff as you see in other parts of the world. Devolve certain powers to Belfast and give certain concessions to Unionists in the immediate aftermath. Basically ease them into the new nation and not saying you're ruled from Dublin as Likesfish has said.


 

This sound similar to the sort of federal structure Casually Red just mentioned- now that does seem like a working plan.

from what I can see currently (ensconsed in the dark heart of a shit bit of middle england) the current post GF set up isn'thelping much at all. The guns may have been put down (sort of) but the underlying tensions are still there. What obstacles, in your opinion, stand in the way of a decent unification done by such a federal solution?


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## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> the best proposals ive seen to date are those within the republican Eire Nua documents, which proposed a federal type structure with a federal pariament for all 9 of the ulster counties , which would leave the religious balance possibly around 50 50 . republicans engaged with unionism and loyalists with these proposals on anumber of occasions during the 1970s and got a pretty positive response. Many shades of unionism made it clear at differnt times that they were proposals they could live with in the event of a British pull out .
> 
> Gerry Adams made it a very personal crusade to have these proposals abandoned , dismissing them as a " sop to unionism" . He succeeded finally in 1983 .


 

Idon't engage with the like button, so just accept my thanks for this answer.

I'm imagining like the Quebecois solution ?


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## toggle (Sep 16, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> the best proposals ive seen to date are those within the republican Eire Nua documents, which proposed a federal type structure with a federal pariament for all 9 of the ulster counties , which would leave the religious balance possibly around 50 50 . republicans engaged with unionism and loyalists with these proposals on anumber of occasions during the 1970s and got a pretty positive response. Many shades of unionism made it clear at differnt times that they were proposals they could live with in the event of a British pull out .
> 
> Gerry Adams made it a very personal crusade to have these proposals abandoned , dismissing them as a " sop to unionism" . He succeeded finally in 1983 .


 
do you know what the specific objections to these proposals were? i know they went at the same time as the end of abstentionism and the sinn fein split, but i looked at that in far more detail


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Idon't engage with the like button, so just accept my thanks for this answer.
> 
> I'm imagining like the Quebecois solution ?


 
theres some links and stuff to it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Éire_Nua

Republican Sinn Fein are most involved in promoting it today but other groups such as 32 csm have also been proposing it as a solution.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

toggle said:


> do you know what the specific objections to these proposals were?


 
well gerry Adams specific objection to it was that it was a "sop to unionism" . A bit rich coming from the man who accepted the unionist veto and completely surrendered to Britian and took his party into Stormont. Adams rose to power playing a very hardline militarist card and  portraying his republican opponents - who he denounces today as mad hardline militarists etc - as soft on the issue of armed struggle and looking to sell them out . He successfully smeared Eire Nua as part and parcel of the IRA ceasefires of the 1970s, which he spent most of his career then denouncing .


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## toggle (Sep 16, 2012)

nods, so he claimed it was a compromise, not a victory, and a victory was what was needed. I can see why a lot of epople think that is a bit much to swallow.


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## likesfish (Sep 16, 2012)

The whole sorry mess was one nobody could declare a victory .
   There was no way some sort of socialist secular republic was going to rises from the ashes that was as barking as any other plan the.
 british plan was have they stopped bombing shooting? ok finally we can ignore them now.


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## Casually Red (Sep 16, 2012)

There were other significant intitatives during the 1970s involving eire nua , such as the Feakle talks with the protestant church leaders and the IRA and also the liason between IRA leaders and loyalist paramilitary leaders which were aimed at a joint decalaration calling on the British to withdraw . The Irish governemnt , most likely at the behest of MI6, deliberately wrecked both iniatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruairí_Ó_Brádaigh 

_In late December 1976, along with Joe Cahill, he met two representatives of the Ulster Loyalist Central Coordinating Committee, John McKeague and John McClure, at the request of the latter body. Their purpose was to try to find a way to accommodate the ULCCC proposals for an independent Northern Ireland with the Sinn Féin's Éire Nua programme. It was agreed that if this could be done, a joint Loyalist-Republican approach could then be made to request the British government to leave Ireland. Desmond Boal QC and Seán MacBrideSC were requested and accepted to represent the loyalist and republican positions. For months they had meetings in various places including Paris. *The dialogue eventually collapsed when Conor Cruise O'Brien, then Minister for Posts and Telegraphs and vociferous opponent of the Provisional IRA, became aware of it and condemned it on RTÉ Radio. As the loyalists had insisted on absolute secrecy, they felt unable to continue with the talks as a result.[8]*_
_In the aftermath of the 1975 Truce, the Ó Brádaigh/Ó Conaill leadership came under severe criticism from a younger generation of activists from Northern Ireland, headed by Gerry Adams, who became a vice-president of Sinn Féin in 1978. By the early 1980s, Ó Brádaigh's position as president of Sinn Féin was openly under challenge and the Éire Nua policy was targeted in an effort to oust him. The policy was rejected at the 1981 Sinn Féin Ard Fheis and finally removed from the Sinn Féin constitution at the 1982 Ard Fheis. At the following year's ard fheis, Ó Brádaigh and Ó Conaill resigned from their leadership positions, voicing opposition to the dropping of the Éire Nua policy by the party._

The feakle peace talks were deliberately broken up by the Irish special branch . However the Protestant church leaders did issue a statement praising the IRAs leaders at that time as genuine and honourable in their search for a peaceful solution .

http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/irish_news/arts2004/dec30_1974_talks_scuppered.php


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## likesfish (Sep 17, 2012)

The problem with that plan it satisfyed none of the head bangers on either side


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## toggle (Sep 17, 2012)

likesfish said:


> The problem with that plan it satisfyed none of the head bangers on either side


 
erm....

the political leader of dissident republicanism, from the Sinn Fein split that created rIRA up until quite recently was the aforementioned o'bradeigh who appears to have been far from disatisfied with eire nua.


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## likesfish (Sep 17, 2012)

gerry and his mates werent keen on the idea.
 because there plan was sooooooooo much better.


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## flypanam (Sep 17, 2012)

Sorry to get back to the loyalist threat in a unified Ireland, I just can't imagine the protestant population acting as a whole. It's been a long time since there has been a unified unionist/loyalist ideology.

I believe that some sections of the fur coat brigade and the middle class will accommodate to Dublin asap to guarantee their privilege. Of course there will be tension but the idea of a unified Orange Bloc has been peddled since 1912.

The protestant population of the north is as driven with internal tensions as any other community in Ireland or Britain.

Anyway it's a Monaghan lads opinion.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 17, 2012)

they had a square go in the day!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Ulster-Crisis-Resistance-Blackstaff/dp/085640599X


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## revol68 (Sep 17, 2012)

flypanam said:


> Sorry to get back to the loyalist threat in a unified Ireland, I just can't imagine the protestant population acting as a whole. It's been a long time since there has been a unified unionist/loyalist ideology.
> 
> I believe that some sections of the fur coat brigade and the middle class will accommodate to Dublin asap to guarantee their privilege. Of course there will be tension but the idea of a unified Orange Bloc has been peddled since 1912.
> 
> ...


 
The GFA (the republican movements acceptance of partition though consent, and the removal of articles 2 and 3) has been fundamental to this rapid breakdown in unionism/loyalism, any attempt to impose a united ireland would however throw this breakdown into reverse. Most republicans understand that a united ireland will onlyever come about vis a vis normalisation and a slow integration through cross border and EU bodies.

Talk of a sudden unification is completely mental not simply cos of unionism/loyalism but the small matter that the South doesn't want the North nor could it afford it.


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## Random (Sep 18, 2012)

Didn't know that there was an Irish Special branch. Talk about historical irony. Gives me the same queasy feeling as when you see British-style institutions in India.



Casually Red said:


> i was at the funeral and there were at least 1000 people waiting for the cortege outside the chapel and the shopping centre across the road. Hundreds more were lining the streets along the route . These would have mainly been local people and neighbours paying their respects to the man who was assassinated and not political activists . As well as just the basically nosy . The cortege itself , comprising republicans from a variety of groups , was easily 800 strong . There were approximately 300 men and also some women  in black and whites escorting the coffin in 2 lines , most of them stamping their feet in military style unison as they marched and gave it quite a formidable air. Many of them were former IRA prisoners . In such circumstances thered have been a full scale riot had any attempt been made to disrupt the funeral . On 2 occasions at the start of the funeral the guys in black and whites rushed police lines , hundreds of them ran at the cops the second it even looked like they were going to block the funerals path . The cops backed off immediately. Something similar happened again at the graveyard and again the cops backed off, although there were certainly much more riot squad in evidence there .
> During the funeral procession the gardai were mostly concerned with directing traffic and keeping a clear path for the cortege . On a number of occasions police were walking directly alongside the masked IRA members along the route and powerless to do anything about it. The head of the Dublin North metropolitan police attended the funeral service on his own, and as he exited the chapel he was within a few feet of the masked guard of honour who had formed up outside and just had to stand there . The head of Irish special branch was also present at the grave side and at one point was mobbed by the guys in black and whites as he approached too close to the graveside for the sensibilities of those present . Again he backed off.
> Basically this new IRA and their supporters took over the streets of the capital for a few hours and the cops could do fuck all about it, except help them to do so by keeping the traffic at bay .


----------



## Casually Red (Oct 7, 2012)

[quote="revol68, post: 11525285, member: 


> The GFA (the republican movements acceptance of partition though consent, and the removal of articles 2 and 3) has been fundamental to this rapid breakdown in unionism/loyalism, any attempt to impose a united ireland would however throw this breakdown into reverse. Most republicans understand that a united ireland will onlyever come about vis a vis normalisation and a slow integration through cross border and EU bodies.


 
its sinn feins acceptance of british rule by virtue of an undemocratic unionist veto over Irish national democracy . The shite you are talking about isnt actually republicanism, at best its humism, by definition its unionism . The winds changed long ago , its seen for the british policy it is. And its no surprise to see you supporting this dreary imperialist shit . Its because your a unionist but you dont have the balls to publicly accept your unionist position . Youve no more relationship with actual socialism than peter robinson has, or martin mcguiness . Your just another dreary establishment mouthpiece .



> Talk of a sudden unification is completely mental not simply cos of unionism/loyalism but the small matter that the South doesn't want the North nor could it afford it.


 
talk of sudden unification is a strawman you invented as part of your pro establishment ballsology . Even in the mid 70s the republican movement were talking about a ten or fifteen year grace period, possibly policed by a neutral un force . A declaration of intent to withdraw was the aim . As was the destruction of both "the south" and the "north"

then again an establishment mouthpiece could never get his head round that .

back you go to the land of empire loyalist socialism...fucking eejit


----------



## Casually Red (Oct 7, 2012)

dylanredefined said:


> Your right though I'm sure they will be quite happy to profit from any upsurge in violence.
> Still not sure what the new group can achieve? UK government will not give up NI as it would be seen as being weak and a lot of loyalists wish to remain British ,and ,the republic don't want to deal with the loyalist population if their not happy to be reunited.


 
no offence but what your not getting is this isnt a "new" group . In political , historical , geographical and demographical terms its the same group thats been waxing and waning for the last 100 years . The IRA .


----------



## revol68 (Oct 7, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> no offence but what your not getting is this isnt a "new" group . In political , historical , geographical and demographical terms its the same group thats been waxing and waning for the last 100 years . The IRA .


 
Hilarious.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 7, 2012)

Reunification is only ever going to happen when its not going to lead to blood shed.

Its the fucking 21st century having so called leftist groups made up of one religious groups is massivly missing the point.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 7, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> no offence but what your not getting is this isnt a "new" group . In political , historical , geographical and demographical terms its the same group thats been waxing and waning for the last 100 years . The IRA .


 
The same retarded mentality that made Rory Brady the "president of Ireland" for x amount of years


----------



## revol68 (Oct 7, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> no offence but what your not getting is this isnt a "new" group . In political , historical , geographical and demographical terms its the same group thats been waxing and waning for the last 100 years . The IRA .


 
 one holy catholic and apostolic Church...


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 15, 2012)

Just up on vice, a related article

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/i-survived-an-assassination-hit-on-a-real-ira-leader


----------



## mod (Oct 16, 2012)

Where are they likely to get their funding and arms from? 

Terrorism isn't deemed romantic in New York anymore and Gaddafi is no more.

Can you really fund a war selling hash and extorting money from the fella who runs the petrol station.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 1, 2012)

BBC2 Spotlight on dissidents and dealers.

edit: and a prison officer just been killed on the M1


----------



## N_igma (Nov 1, 2012)

Screwed.


----------



## kebabking (Nov 1, 2012)

mod said:


> Where are they likely to get their funding and arms from?
> 
> Terrorism isn't deemed romantic in New York anymore and Gaddafi is no more.
> 
> Can you really fund a war selling hash and extorting money from the fella who runs the petrol station.


 
a war, a 'proper', insurgency war that eventually carves out what are almost 'liberated' zones where the governments writ only runs when it commits significant military capability? no. but a spluttering, drip-drip of occasional shooting and bomb attacks that keep the place on edge? yes, sadly you can - an income of £10,000 a year would keep you in cheap machine pistols, one bombing 'spectacular' and a handful of grenade-type attacks.

the problem that NI has is that there is no political solution which meets the needs of every micro-group on either side that could garner half a dozen new voluteers a year and even a small funding stream.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 1, 2012)

Has there ever been any research collating together estimates of how much cash the British state invested into paramilitary groups (of various persuasions) through infiltrators, provocateurs, conduits, double agents etc?


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 28, 2012)

Head of Éirígí has been lifted. Possibly something to do with an armed bank robbery?

http://www.channel4.com/news/irish-republican-splinter-leader-arrested-at-home


----------



## connollyist (Nov 29, 2012)

I may have missed it but where does it use the term 'armed robbery'?


----------



## dylanredefined (Nov 29, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Has there ever been any research collating together estimates of how much cash the British state invested into paramilitary groups (of various persuasions) through infiltrators, provocateurs, conduits, double agents etc?


             I doubt you can come up with truthful figures. Don't really think they needed or wanted provocateurs though the cynical strategy of an acceptable level of violence isn't helped by stirring things up.


----------



## rekil (Nov 29, 2012)

connollyist said:


> I may have missed it but where does it use the term 'armed robbery'?


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/eirigi-behind-failed-gun-shop-raid-gardai-fear-3309811.html

It's the indo, so approach with extreme caution.


----------



## plug ugly (Nov 29, 2012)

Why would Eirigi develop an armed wing now? 

Seems odd.


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 29, 2012)

plug ugly said:


> Why would Eirigi develop an armed wing now?
> 
> Seems odd.


 

It seems odd because maybe it's the round way wrong.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 29, 2012)

N_igma said:


> I would agree with this but like it or not, there'll always be an armed struggle of sorts as long as the North remains under British rule.


 
Umm... Northern Ireland Assembly? As in Scotland and Wales, a measure of direct government by the people of Northern Ireland?

Quite how the Republicans can claim that they represent the majority, I don't know. AFAIK, every poll in Northern Ireland has supported the status quo.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 29, 2012)

Its not exactly a sane belief two european democratic countries both in the Eu  hardly worth killing over.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Nov 29, 2012)

A prominent Eirigi activist has been charged, with three others, in connection with the gun raid. It's not clear what political associations the others may have.


----------



## connollyist (Nov 29, 2012)

copliker said:


> http://www.independent.ie/national-news/eirigi-behind-failed-gun-shop-raid-gardai-fear-3309811.html
> 
> It's the indo, so approach with extreme caution.


 
Yeah, always find it funny how the irish independent is right leaning and the english one left leaning...

I find this all a little difficult to believe and for better or worse there's definitely state interference going on here whether it be the free state or British?


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 29, 2012)

apparently he has now been released withou charge


----------



## connollyist (Nov 29, 2012)

Why do I get a feeling the dark forces of the free state and they're british cronies are simply trying to smear shit on Éirígí  here?


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Nov 30, 2012)

connollyist said:


> Why do I get a feeling the dark forces of the free state and they're british cronies are simply trying to smear shit on Éirígí here?


 
Look, I'm sure that the Special Branch aren't particularly fond of Eirigi, and I'm inherently suspicious of "security sources indicate" attributions in newspapers. However, an Eirigi activist (at least one) has been charged in relation to a raid at a gun shop, where, again according to the papers, the Gardai say they were lying in wait. It's hardly surprising that "security sources" are encouraging certain lines of speculation in the papers.


----------



## connollyist (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm not disagreeing with your posts here... I'm just saying I don't believe the papers or their sources and I hope to fuck it turns out to just be them spouting bollocks?


----------



## rekil (Dec 4, 2012)

Eamon Kelly shot today. His nephew was on my schoolboy football team.



> IRELAND’S most notorious criminal Eamon Kelly has died after being shot three times in broad daylight while out walking.
> 
> A close friend of murdered gang boss Eamon Dunne, Kelly, who was in his 60s and known as The Godfather, was gunned down as he was walking near his home on Furry Park Road in Killester on the northside of Dublin this afternoon.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 4, 2012)

copliker said:


> Eamon Kelly shot today. His nephew was on my schoolboy football team.


 

Fucking hell, just up the road. It's all gone a bit Love/Hate again.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 5, 2012)

Hes believed to have masterminded the murder of Alan Ryan .


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> Hes believed to have masterminded the murder of Alan Ryan .


 
Not sure 'masterminded' is the right word but big player since the sixties, was in the army but split in the seventies and lately organising the Tiger kidnappings and 'Criminal Action force', an alliance of gangsters from everywhere, Westies, Crumlin etc upset about being bullied and extorted by RIRA. If it wasn't so serious with 'innocents' getting killed it would be a parody. Crazy that tabloids are having a go at Love/Hate for glamourising this shit after decades of them hyping it at every turn with comic book style, 'The Monk, The Viper, The Panda..' etc. And weird the Mafia, Sopranos style of assassinating people in local pubs in front of family and friends or on local streets, definitely big show down going on, 'power vacuums' all over the place so they say. The fella arrested (by undercover cops who were on the street when it happened!) was in Portrlaoise with Ryan apparently. I've lived in a lot of places but this Dublin, Coked up Post-Celtic Tiger shoot out is heavy shit. Not that I care as long as they just kill each other but the roots of this conflict are decades in the making and it isn't going to stop anytime soon. Watch Love/Hate for updates!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 8, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Crazy that tabloids are having a go at Love/Hate for glamourising this shit


 
Never heard of this before, but I've been checking it out after you mentioned it a couple of times. Comes over as a stodgy Irish version of _Underbelly_, only without the laughs.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 8, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Never heard of this before, but I've been checking it out after you mentioned it a couple of times. Comes over as a stodgy Irish version of _Underbelly_, only without the laughs.


 

Never heard of Underbelly, saw a few episodes of Love/Hate last season, looked promising, good drama, then it turned Gangster porn and went a bit silly but life/art side of it is spooky. Interesting though dissidents are uniting, no peace dividend for some. Robin Hood factor played in Northside Dublin, stories about dissidents taking on gangsters taxing OAP's for pensions, loans etc. It's like dissident groups are distilled essence of Irish Republicanism and as we approach centenary anniversary of 1916, we're going to see an upsurge. Last few days in Belfast seem crazy with kids who weren't even born in the troubles kicking off over flags and such. Here we fucking go.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 8, 2012)

be depressed be very depressed


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

dylanredefined said:


> I doubt you can come up with truthful figures. Don't really think they needed or wanted provocateurs though the cynical strategy of an acceptable level of violence isn't helped by stirring things up.


 
as regards the loyalist groupings their killing campaign from the mid 80s onwards was almost entirely facilitated by the major importation of apartheid south african arms into the 6 counties by the FRU/14TH INTEL, and then the wholesale direction of killer gangs to targets by their agent Brian Nelson, the UDAs cheif intelligence officer whom all the loyalist groupings relied upon . The entire loyalist killing campaign was directly facilitated by collusion , many of the most prolific killers agents . Torrens Knight , the convicted leader of the gang which carried out a number of massacres in Castlerock and Greysteel with weapons supplied by the British intelligence services was on a state retainer of around 50 grand a year . Which was waiting for him in a bank account when he got out . They didnt need provocateurs, they were running death squads to terrorise the nationally minded population.

Sadly despite their repeated exposure in this regard theres plenty on here still promoting that piggy in the middle bollocks.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The same retarded mentality that made Rory Brady the "president of Ireland" for x amount of years


 
No, im talking about the same political phenomenon which is a direct result of the same political conditions that give rise to that phenomenon being present , and I specified the context of that while making absolutely no mention of any purist continuity  . Whats retarded..as you so glibly put it..is your own mentality and that of a few others which expresses both surprise and outrage theres still an IRA , when its as plain as the nose on your face that political phenomenon is both solidifying and growing . Whats retarded is your and others blind ignorance of the political conditions which give rise to the very same political phenomenon, time and time again as they have for the past 100 years .

And i dont believe that at any stage Mr OBradaigh ever claimed to be president of Ireland either, even in a metaphysical sense. You seem a dullard with the oul detail, when trying to sound clever.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

kebabking said:


> the problem that NI has is that there is no political solution which meets the needs of every micro-group on either side that could garner half a dozen new voluteers a year and even a small funding stream.


 
another fucking wizard with his finger on the pulse


----------



## dylanredefined (Dec 26, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> as regards the loyalist groupings their killing campaign from the mid 80s onwards was almost entirely facilitated by the major importation of apartheid south african arms into the 6 counties by the FRU/14TH INTEL, and then the wholesale direction of killer gangs to targets by their agent Brian Nelson, the UDAs cheif intelligence officer whom all the loyalist groupings relied upon . The entire loyalist killing campaign was directly facilitated by collusion , many of the most prolific killers agents . Torrens Knight , the convicted leader of the gang which carried out a number of massacres in Castlerock and Greysteel with weapons supplied by the British intelligence services was on a state retainer of around 50 grand a year . Which was waiting for him in a bank account when he got out . They didnt need provocateurs, they were running death squads to terrorise the nationally minded population.
> 
> Sadly despite their repeated exposure in this regard theres plenty on here still promoting that piggy in the middle bollocks.


          I thought the loyalists got their weapons in exchange for shorts blueprints. And lost them as they filled an estate car with assualt rifles which then got pulled over for being over laden.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

dylanredefined said:


> I thought the loyalists got their weapons in exchange for shorts blueprints. And lost them as they filled an estate car with assualt rifles which then got pulled over for being over laden.


 
They were promised even more weapons from the same source , South Africas armscorp if they could supply that . Only a portion of the quite massive shipment was lost when one of the cars that took delivery of it was so overladen its back bumper was almost scraping the ground and pulled over by ordinary traffic cops. There were still hundreds of rifles that got through . Along with RPGs and grenades . Loyalists were also assisting the SA secret service in gathering intelligence on and assassinating anti apartheid activists in Britain and Ireland .


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 30, 2012)

Bomb found under PSNI cop's car

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20869871


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 4, 2013)

Mortars found in van.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/suspected-dissident-republican-mortar-bomb-1742161


----------



## Buckaroo (Jul 4, 2013)

Latest stuff.

http://www.herald.ie/


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 8, 2013)

Huge garda presence for Alan Ryan anniversary march

Follows on from:
Shatter slams 'reprehensible' events at Alan Ryan funeral (2012)
Huge security operation in place in Donaghmede ahead of dissident march (yesterday)


----------



## 8den (Sep 8, 2013)

Fucking hell. Have you seen some the photos from that Alan Ryan memorial bullshit.







Look out it's Continuity Girls Aloud!






Marvelous indoctrinate a new generation into this bullshit and hate!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 8, 2013)




----------



## likesfish (Sep 8, 2013)

jail them jail the lot of them




no fucking iron between the lot of them and you michael jackson impersonator your on fucking parade double jailing. Boot polish heard of the concept or is it an evil british import


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 28, 2013)

More of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25085035


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 28, 2013)

likesfish said:


> jail them jail the lot of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...



except Norn


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 30, 2013)

8den said:


> Fucking hell. Have you seen some the photos from that Alan Ryan memorial bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Come on, no Likes, seriously?


----------



## Manter (Nov 30, 2013)

Continuity girls aloud is genius tbf


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

8den said:


> Fucking hell. Have you seen some the photos from that Alan Ryan memorial bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




point out the actual hatred on display, and the indoctrination...otherwise ill just have to assume youve been brought up up to hate people with different political beliefs to your own, and indoctrinated with the states prejudices. You sound just like uncle Gaybo wringiing his hands, a little child of section 31.
And republicans are as entitled to honour their dead as anyone else. If the best you can do is denigrate that as bullshit id suggest youve goit fuck all to offer and would be better off keeping it zipped until youve something less inane to come out with than sexist catcalls .


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

Manter said:


> Continuity girls aloud is genius tbf




its sexist bollocks , those young women are just as entitled to play a role in republicanism as any man. And just as capable im sure. And unlike uncle gaybo theres  RTS calamity they certainly  wont be getting casually kicked round the streets of dublin when they take to the streets,  by a few baton happy garda  ..a mere handful of them without riot gear, sheilds or helmets, some in just shirt sleeves...while literally hundreds of their useless male anarchist friends ands associates look on impotently with their mouths open just a few feet away and dont lift a finger .
Aint that right uncle gaybo/8den  ? You and your mates certainly distinguished yourselves with glory that day, standing back and letting that happen to the young women youd encouraged..perhaps even indoctrinated..to go out and flagrantly break the law . You and your freinds just stood there and let them be slaughtered.
not very comradely at all that, much less manly . Even the farmers union wouldnt sit back and let that happen without lifting a finger

Maybe thats why these young women have decided the likes of 8dens politics are a load of empty bollocks and revolutionary change in Ireland wont be coming his foppish , limp end of the political spectrum . And self empowerment will have to be found elsewhere.


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

cops in belfast complaining the loyalist prade being held in belfast this weekend is undermining their attempts to contain republican _terrorists_, the irony of the parade itself being organised by the UVF seems lost on them . Where it not for the fact they acknowlege it elsewhere, just not in the UVF asskissing statement they put out.



_*Loyalists urged to cancel protest as bomb attacks sweep Northern Ireland*

Police federation warns of severe dissident threat and says Belfast city centre parade will stretch resources to the limit_

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...protest-bomb-attacks-northern-ireland-belfast

_There have been 16 different bomb attacks by the new [URL='http://www.theguardian.com/uk/ira']IRA__ and other groups opposed to the peace process in recent weeks across Northern Ireland._[/URL]

pretty major PSNI presence all over Belfast now and expected to continue at least up to the new year, armed checkpoints , cars being searched entering city centre carparks and the like

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ng-in-bizarre-bid-for-supremacy-29783098.html


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Huge garda presence for Alan Ryan anniversary march
> 
> Follows on from:
> Shatter slams 'reprehensible' events at Alan Ryan funeral (2012)
> Huge security operation in place in Donaghmede ahead of dissident march (yesterday)




well it certainly seems in the midst of bankruptcy and austerity the state still seems more worried about the young women 8den prefers to mock than they do about the likes of 8den himself

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...id-fears-of-republican-protests-29587911.html
_* GARDAI placed an unprecedented ring of steel around Leinster House today as politicians returned from their summer recess....*
.....The scale of the barriers placed on Kildare Street was unprecedented with sources admitting that trouble was expected.

“It became clear that a number of groups, including those associated with Alan Ryan, were intending to turn out on the first day of the Dail. It was decided to put in a place a serious security operation,” a source explained._


----------



## likesfish (Nov 30, 2013)

A bunch of cunts who managed to commit the biggest single loss of life in Ni
 Blinded a 14year old army cadet get their boss murdered by gangsters.

They dont really have anything  useful to add to the arguement much like the uvf have nothing useful to add a million odd unionist are not suddenely going to become republicans if just one more bomb goes off


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

well so far youve got nothing useful to add to this thread or the argument either. At the end of the day theyve still got more right to be walking the streets of Ireland than members of the British crown forces, who have no legitimate right to be there . If the British state didnt claim a swathe of another european nations territory as its own there simply wouldnt be an IRA. Or indeed any unionists for that matter, as thered be no union  .

and if you seriously want to start bandying casualty figures about if we look at even the recent  record of the outfit  you were involved with..well..nuff said really . Or if we consider the lengths you and your former associates would be prepared to go to if your country was occupied by an overwhelmingly powerful military force and you had to resort to sporadic guerilla warfare .....seriously like . Would the possibility of injuring teenage cadets really stop you from planting booby traps in an enemies army base ??

course it wouldnt, not for an instant ..its bollocks. So when you throw that one out your talking bollocks, and you know it .


----------



## revol68 (Nov 30, 2013)

> If the British state didnt claim a swathe of another european nations territory as its own there simply wouldnt be an IRA. Or indeed any unionists for that matter, as thered be no union .



yes just like there being no 32 county Republic means there are no republicans...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm not sure what Gib has to do with it?


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I'm not sure what Gib has to do with it?



??


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

revol68 said:


> yes just like there being no 32 county Republic means there are no republicans...



in the advent of the union being broken tell us how likely it is as a political prospect britain would ever come back. I realise your an anarchist and therefore more receptive to hopeless caues than most, but just try and look at that logically as a political position and platform.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> ??


You said about Britain occupying another European country's territory I can't think of another one?


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

can you not...thats a pity


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> can you not...thats a pity


Where are you thinking of then?


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

that your a wanker trying to make some point that sounds clever to you rather than openly stating your unionist and imperialist case, pretty much


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> that your a wanker trying to make some point that sounds clever to you rather than openly stating your unionist and imperialist case, pretty much


You're


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

thanks for the correction 


your a wanker who also likes to correct spelling instead of openly making the case for unionism and British imperialism in Ireland . And as Ive also pointed out this is because you believe it makes you sound clever on the internet .


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> thanks for the correction
> 
> 
> your a wanker who also likes to correct spelling instead of openly making the case for unionism and British imperialism in Ireland . And as Ive also pointed out this is because you believe it makes you sound clever on the internet .


You're


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

I know, I made you say that to underline my point.

Your now a predictable wanker as well .


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> I know, I made you say that to underline my point.
> 
> Your now a predictable wanker as well .


You're


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

your trolling, give it a rest or go on ignore


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 30, 2013)

Punctuation Police are in the house!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> your trolling, give it a rest or go on ignore


You're


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Seriously though can anyone tell me what this European country is with swathes of territory being trampled beneath the jackboot of British occupation?


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

your on ignore now, ta ta


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> your on ignore now, ta ta


Too scared to answer the question are ye?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 30, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> your on ignore now, ta ta



lol


----------



## likesfish (Nov 30, 2013)

RIRA killed 50 civillians 3 security forces amd 3 of their own died attemptimg to restart the troubles that didnt really work.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 1, 2013)

Britain /England has spent over 800 years trying to pacify the natives in their oldest colony . That plainly hasnt worked . Time to fuck off out of it once and for all Id have thought .


> restart the troubles



thats a good one, occupy part of someone elses country and then accuse them of starting the trouble


----------



## seventh bullet (Dec 1, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Too scared to answer the question are ye?



How many people has Casually Google put on ignore? He got in a huff and did it to me a few days ago.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 1, 2013)

Thing is more than 50% of the population of the north Really want to remain British.
Armed force republicisnm failed in 30 years of comflict the GFA saw the entire island vote for enough.
   But rira decided that wasnt good enough decided one more bomb amd the brits will leave.
 As the bod on far cry 3 said insanity is doing the same thing and expecting diffrent results.


----------



## Fuchs66 (Dec 1, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> How many people has Casually Google put on ignore? He got in a huff and did it to me a few days ago.


I'm sure you're heartbroken


----------



## 8den (Dec 1, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> its sexist bollocks , those young women are just as entitled to play a role in republicanism as any man. And just as capable im sure. And unlike uncle gaybo theres  RTS calamity they certainly  wont be getting casually kicked round the streets of dublin when they take to the streets,  by a few baton happy garda  ..a mere handful of them without riot gear, sheilds or helmets, some in just shirt sleeves...while literally hundreds of their useless male anarchist friends ands associates look on impotently with their mouths open just a few feet away and dont lift a finger .
> Aint that right uncle gaybo/8den  ? You and your mates certainly distinguished yourselves with glory that day, standing back and letting that happen to the young women youd encouraged..perhaps even indoctrinated..to go out and flagrantly break the law . You and your freinds just stood there and let them be slaughtered.
> not very comradely at all that, much less manly . Even the farmers union wouldnt sit back and let that happen without lifting a finger
> 
> Maybe thats why these young women have decided the likes of 8dens politics are a load of empty bollocks and revolutionary change in Ireland wont be coming his foppish , limp end of the political spectrum . And self empowerment will have to be found elsewhere.



Oh piss off, these assholes are all mouth and no trousers. 

Turning up at a funeral in mirrorshades and paramilitary apparel doesn't mean you are "dedicated" to a cause, there's no evidence that this is nothing more than theater and empty posturing. In face there's plenty evidence that this is merely theater and empty posturing. going on by the fact that organisations like the CIRA and their ilk are so insanely small and ineffective.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 1, 2013)

8den said:


> Oh piss off, these assholes are all mouth and no trousers.
> 
> Turning up at a funeral in mirrorshades and paramilitary apparel doesn't mean you are "dedicated" to a cause, there's no evidence that this is nothing more than theater and empty posturing. In face there's plenty evidence that this is merely theater and empty posturing. going on by the fact that organisations like the CIRA and their ilk are so insanely small and ineffective.




8Den, Ill deal with these points one by one .

Firstly these people , as you are well aware, have no alignment with the continuity grouping . Your continued reference to that despite your own knowlege otherwise would suggest your an agenda driven deliberate confusion monger, for starters. Certainly your coming to this thread  with a deliberate desire to present falsehoods and misrepresent the facts, repeatedly. Thats the behaviour of a dishonest person, to put it mildly .
Secondly despite being what you refer to as small and ineffective last year they openly faced down a sizable garda presence including armed detectives and riot squad  and defiantly walked the streets of Dublin last year in full paramiltary uniform  , over a distance of nearly 5 miles, over a period of hours after brazenly firing volleys of shots . Without any police interference after the first 2 attempts to prevent it  were faced down by the sizable numbers in attendance.

The gardai then resigned themselves to directing traffic and openly admitted thered have been widespread and very serious public disorder in Dublin had they attempted to stop it .In fact Its been decades since something like that happened, it points to something substantially  bigger than what your sneering at . In fact it would very obviously be, even to the most wilfully stupid,  an impossibility to do what they did in the face of a major garda presence unless they had the bodies on the ground to back it up . They demonstrably did it though, which leaves us with the wilfully dishonest in your case . And lets face it not only do you not know what your talking about,  your mob couldnt even hold a mini disco when they tried . And thats also a proven fact .












Now I could spend some time here taking issue with a Dublin anarchist, of all people,  sneering at others for being _insanely small and ineffective_, but the utter irony in that is just too obvious .

Ill simply return to the point I made earlier . A few years ago you and your comrades brought people out onto the streets to defy the law . A handful of gardai without riot gear ,or dogs, or horses, in their shirt sleeves stopped you dead in seconds and  viciously assaulted young women in your company . And you, personally, and your comrades just stood there like shop dummies . And then went home . You didnt lift a finger to defend yourselves or those young girls who were being hammered right in front of you . In that respect Id say your absolutely unique amongst the anarchists of Europe, many of whom Id have some respect for despite not agreeing with their overall political programme . I know of no other European capital were its revolutionary anarchist contingent would tolerate that sort of fascism  without a physical response , no matter how half hearted or futile . Youre a unique breed, and as you openly admit you were there .


And not only did you not lift a finger neither did the Dublin working class on your behalf , which would point to a very serious divorce from that class in practice . Some 4 thousand of them turned out to pay their respects  and made it clear to the gardai thered be murder if the funeral was attacked . And thus it wasnt despite the deep embarassment to the state .


> doesn't mean you are "dedicated" to a cause, there's no evidence that this is nothing more than theater and empty posturing.



well plainly 8den we can conclude that any anarchist attempt to reclaim the streets in Dublin was a piece of theatre and empty posturing by people who werent prepared to take either a kicking or a nicking, even when their women comrades  were being mangled right in front of their eyes . There is no dedication to any cause amongst that faction bar self preservation, and Id include you personally in that . I find you in particular  making those accusations against others utterly preposterous .

The evidence of dedication to a cause amongst those you are sneering at is very much evident in the maximum security jails north and south , were precisely such people as you sneer at are being effectively interned for their beliefs , for years on end. The fact many of them are brutlaised in those jails, that theyve gone on prolonged dirty protest for their beliefs and their refusal to be treated as criminals by the state . They simply wont give in .And the fact that under the souths laws even attending that funeral or commemoration could get you done for membership solely on a gardas opinion, which cant be challenged . Those girls you are mocking know full well they could go to jail for years simply for being there . And that a riot squad will try and hammer them if the orders given . And they also know they could suffer the same fate as Alan Ryan or others.

No you are fully entitled to disagree with their beliefs but you havent done that in the slghtest . Instead youve attacked personally people you dont even know and insisted they dont have any . On quite spurious grounds and oblivious to the political mirror that can be held up to yourself personally . Thats not on in my opinion . Its the behaviour of someone more suited to the Dublin gutter press than someone professing  any sort of revolutionary politics . Its an example of poor character Im afraid and an inability to address the political issues inherent to the situation that persists .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 1, 2013)

likesfish said:


> Thing is more than 50% of the population of the north Really want to remain British.
> s.



thing is the north should not exist as a political entity in the first place . It was carved out as a sectarian gerrymander by a foreign power to hold onto territory. Thats why theres an armed conflict, to remove it .
If Scotland votes for Independence and  England  ignored that vote, twice, and decided instead  to carve up a bit of scotland where they could find enough orangemen gathered in one spot in order to hold onto it because they _wanted to remain British_..what do you think would happen there ?
The scots would go..._ok..thats alright then..take a big chunk of our country if you like because theres some orangemen in it_ ??

doubt it . It would have no legitmacy whatsoever, and neither does this shithole thats continually failed from the day it was invented in whitehall . And will continue to fail in the future .


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> 8Den, Ill deal with these points one by one .
> 
> Firstly these people , as you are well aware, have no alignment with the continuity grouping . Your continued reference to that despite your own knowlege otherwise would suggest your an agenda driven deliberate confusion monger, for starters. Certainly your coming to this thread  with a deliberate desire to present falsehoods and misrepresent the facts, repeatedly. Thats the behaviour of a dishonest person, to put it mildly .
> Secondly despite being what you refer to as small and ineffective last year they openly faced down a sizable garda presence including armed detectives and riot squad  and defiantly walked the streets of Dublin last year in full paramiltary uniform  , over a distance of nearly 5 miles, over a period of hours after brazenly firing volleys of shots . Without any police interference after the first 2 attempts to prevent it  were faced down by the sizable numbers in attendance.
> ...




I really could not count the ways that I could not be arsed with the above shite.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 2, 2013)

think you just missed a golden opportunity to say fuck all there.

my son


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## revol68 (Dec 2, 2013)

Hey Casually Red what's you're thought on the Dizzies city centre bombing attempt?


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## Casually Red (Dec 2, 2013)

my thoughts are that the conditions in which to engage in armed insurgency currently do not exist, that making the political argument is what people should focus on, that the methods under which it was attempted should be abandoned as a tactic , as should the concept of economic attacks as they place civilians in danger.  Relying on the crown forces to move civilians out of harms way after you give a warning is  a disaster in the making in my view . And id hope the particular faction behind that would reconsider their actions.
I also think calling people the dizzies is a sign of a wanker and encourage you to reconsider your perjoratives.

However unlike 8den regardless of my own criticisms I wouldnt assume a lack of political conviction on anyones behalf , seemingly because I havent had a chance to leaf through their record collection or bookcase for approval. Nor if it transpired there were females involved would I be making sexist catcalls referring to girls aloud or other girlbands. Id assume those involved of whatever gender were pretty much dedicated to their beliefs and prepared to both suffer personal loss and inflict it on their opponents. Unlike those who stand idly watching a few gardai casually slaughter their women comrades..for example.

ETA

I also think the fact that incidents like that are occurring and escalating means that theres been quite a major shift away from sinn fein , and that the problem most certainly isnt confined to a handful of lonely insane fanatics and all that state sponsored nonsense some even on the left are happy to parrot like useful idiots.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 2, 2013)

i'd agree the north was a mistake and badly mismanaged on top of that.
 Unfortunatly republicanism came to be seen as sectarian couldnt really be seen as anything else what with unionism being seen as protestant and the irish state lieing down and spreading its legs with a come hither smile  for rome
  The long war tactic  was a mistake it never had a chance at success odds of at least 30:1 with the state having a massive advantage of material and training a friendly population and pira never had any state backing.

The problem is an armed struggle is a zero sum game one side loses one side wins both sides are pretty evenly 
Matched population rise and economically the British pulling out would be a disaster even more now the tiger is stuffed.
 Without at least some prods if not happy at least accepting unification its never going to happen as the south would go lol nope not taking that bag of snakes at the moment keep it


----------



## chilango (Dec 2, 2013)

Sealed Knot.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 2, 2013)

But how you go from here to behaviour typical of a member of the EU fuck knows
 Certainly the british state hasnt a clue


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 2, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> point out the actual hatred on display, and the indoctrination...otherwise ill just have to assume youve been brought up up to hate people with different political beliefs to your own, and indoctrinated with the states prejudices. You sound just like uncle Gaybo wringiing his hands, a little child of section 31.
> And republicans are as entitled to honour their dead as anyone else. If the best you can do is denigrate that as bullshit id suggest youve goit fuck all to offer and would be better off keeping it zipped until youve something less inane to come out with than sexist catcalls .



Get it _said,_ CR ...come _on._


----------



## Fedayn (Dec 2, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> Now I could spend some time here taking issue with a Dublin anarchist, of all people,  sneering at others for being _insanely small and ineffective_, but the utter irony in that is just too obvious .
> 
> Ill simply return to the point I made earlier . A few years ago you and your comrades brought people out onto the streets to defy the law . A handful of gardai without riot gear ,or dogs, or horses, in their shirt sleeves stopped you dead in seconds and  viciously assaulted young women in your company . And you, personally, and your comrades just stood there like shop dummies . And then went home . You didnt lift a finger to defend yourselves or those young girls who were being hammered right in front of you . In that respect Id say your absolutely unique amongst the anarchists of Europe, many of whom Id have some respect for despite not agreeing with their overall political programme . I know of no other European capital were its revolutionary anarchist contingent would tolerate that sort of fascism  without a physical response , no matter how half hearted or futile . Youre a unique breed, and as you openly admit you were there .
> 
> ...



8den is some kind of anarchist/linked to some kind of anarchist grouping?


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2013)

casually red said:
			
		

> point out the actual hatred on display,



Alan Ryan was a a leader of the RIRA a organisation that carried out the Omagh bombing. 

You really think they planted the bomb that killed nearly 30 people out of love for their fellow man?



> and the indoctrination



Children. In. paramilitary. dress. Wearing. a. t-shirt. commemorating. A. Murdered. Extortionist.


----------



## 8den (Dec 2, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> 8den is some kind of anarchist/linked to some kind of anarchist grouping?



No I was involved in Indymedia Ireland, many many many years ago. Casually Red knows this, and he has never let reality get in the way of his opinion.


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## Fedayn (Dec 3, 2013)

8den said:


> No I was involved in Indymedia Ireland, many many many years ago. Casually Red knows this, and he has never let reality get in the way of his opinion.



Ok, so did Indymedia Ireland organise the demo he refers to that resulted in some lassie getting leathered by the polis?


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## bamalama (Dec 3, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Seriously though can anyone tell me what this European country is with swathes of territory being trampled beneath the jackboot of British occupation?


Wait i know this one...is it...er...Ireland?Aye that's it,it's ireland isn't it?Do i win a prize?


----------



## bamalama (Dec 3, 2013)

likesfish said:


> Thing is more than 50% of the population of the north Really want to remain British.
> Armed force republicisnm failed in 30 years of comflict the GFA saw the entire island vote for enough.
> But rira decided that wasnt good enough decided one more bomb amd the brits will leave.
> As the bod on far cry 3 said insanity is doing the same thing and expecting diffrent results.


50 % of a gerrymandered statelet
no it didn't
no they didn't
you should know squaddie boy


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## 8den (Dec 3, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> Ok, so did Indymedia Ireland organise the demo he refers to that resulted in some lassie getting leathered by the polis?



Nope RTS Dublin. Whole thing got caught on camera. 8 cops done for assault, and yours truly holding the camera. It cost me two years of my life and 8 criminal trials, it's why I'm not all that keen on media activism any more.


----------



## bamalama (Dec 3, 2013)

likesfish said:


> i'd agree the north was a mistake and badly mismanaged on top of that.
> Unfortunatly republicanism came to be seen as sectarian couldnt really be seen as anything else what with unionism being seen as protestant and the irish state lieing down and spreading its legs with a come hither smile  for rome
> The long war tactic  was a mistake it never had a chance at success odds of at least 30:1 with the state having a massive advantage of material and training a friendly population and pira never had any state backing.
> 
> ...



no it isn't
no it wouldn't
garbled uninformed bullshit...no change there then
does the legion not run some sort of book loan service for confused ex grunts?


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## LiamO (Dec 3, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> 8den is some kind of anarchist/linked to some kind of anarchist grouping?



http://www.indymedia.ie/article/62469


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## 8den (Dec 3, 2013)

LiamO said:


> http://www.indymedia.ie/article/62469



Not stalker like behaviour in any way shape or form there Liamo.


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## Casually Red (Dec 3, 2013)

8den said:


> No I was involved in Indymedia Ireland, many many many years ago. Casually Red knows this, and he has never let reality get in the way of his opinion.




while were at it do you remember back then the chap that stormed ..actually flounced... off the Indymedia editorial list after falsely insisting 32csm were a fascist organisation who should be given no platform . A blatant lie that Indymedia gave short shrift to . Followed by high dudgeon and flounce . What a sordid ,dishonest  agenda driven little  twat that was .

Do you remember him by any chance, you were definitely around Indymedia when it happened . He was an anarchist chap . Its just your views are quite similar to his...but cant remember his name for the life of me.


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## 8den (Dec 3, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> while were at it do you remember back then the chap that stormed ..actually flounced... off the Indymedia editorial list after falsely insisting 32csm were a fascist organisation who should be given no platform . A blatant lie that Indymedia gave short shrift to . Followed by high dudgeon and flounce . What a sordid ,dishonest  agenda driven little  twat that was .
> 
> Do you remember him by any chance, you were definitely around Indymedia when it happened . He was an anarchist chap . Its just your views are quite similar to his...but cant remember his name for the life of me.



No idea. Genuinely not me. I walked away for other reasons. Mainly because I left the country a few months later. 

I've never suggested the 32csm are fascists.

They are apologists for murdering cunts. And I dont have any time for them.

But no yourself and Liam0 dragging up posts I made on a different website, many many many years ago using a different name isn't insanely creepy, and keep this up and I will start reporting posts sooner rather than later.


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## Casually Red (Dec 3, 2013)

8den said:


> No idea. Genuinely not me. I walked away for other reasons. Mainly because I left the country a few months later.
> 
> I've never suggested the 32csm are fascists.
> 
> They are apologists for murdering cunts. And I dont have any time for them.



I was only asking if you knew him . And you didnt suggest people were fascists of course, fascists have at least some dedication to their cause, you suggested people were apolitical , with the implication being as Thatcher maintained common criminals . A theme you seem quite intent on promoting. Well done. Im sure someone would give you a cream bun for that .



> But no yourself and Liam0 dragging up posts I made on a different website, many many many years ago using a different name isn't insanely creepy, and keep this up and I will start reporting posts sooner rather than later.



report away sunshine


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## Casually Red (Dec 3, 2013)

8den said:


> And I dont have any time for them.
> 
> .



you have no political argument against them, your denunciations are pathetically apolitical. And whats worse you turn into violet elizabeth the second your inane noise is contradicted.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Not stalker like behaviour in any way shape or form there Liamo.





8den said:


> But no yourself and Liam0 dragging up posts I made on a different website, many many many years ago using a different name isn't insanely creepy, and keep this up and I will start reporting posts sooner rather than later.



What is this rancid, paranoid wretch wittering about now?

Fed asked a question, I googled 'Robocop dublin RTS' and posted up the first link that was not straight to the Irish Indo. Is it claiming it wrote that post, and actually _believes_ that I know this? or give a fuck about it? 

How the fuck would I know it had posted this _anonymous_ post? Or give a fiddler's fart? I have no idea what it's real-life name is, nor do I have any interest in finding out (although I'm sure it would only take an hour or so).



8den said:


> keep this up and I will start reporting posts sooner rather than later.



and now we can add TOUT to flouncy, free-state wretch.

Funny how the Guards (brave defenders of the constitution dontcha know) instinctively knew that they could indulge themselves and brutalise a bunch of mainly middle-class, Lifestyle-Annakissed* students... while their 'comrades' watched and 'bravely' filmed...but showed no such enthusiasm when confronted by the kind of working class Dubs The Wretch so obviously despises

_*I use this term to refer specifically to lightweight life-stylers and mean no disrespect to genuine Anarchist political activists... some of whom saved my arse on more than one occasion._


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## Buckaroo (Dec 3, 2013)

.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 5, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> .



?


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 5, 2013)

LiamO said:


> ?



?


----------



## LiamO (Dec 5, 2013)

??


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 5, 2013)

LiamO said:


> ??



I was making a point.


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## LiamO (Dec 5, 2013)

a very succinct one


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## Casually Red (Dec 7, 2013)

update

a convoy of PSNI vehicles came under heavy  gunfire on thursday evening as they passed Ardoyne, the shooters also constructed a firing platform beforehand to allow them to fire over the wall . Which means preparation that was carried out in  the open in a heavily populated area , with the locals plainly ignoring Sinn Fein calls to report these people to the filth .

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25248063


----------



## Limerick Red (Dec 7, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> update
> 
> a convoy of PSNI vehicles came under heavy  gunfire on thursday evening as they passed Ardoyne, the shooters also constructed a firing platform beforehand to allow them to fire over the wall . Which means preparation that was carried out in  the open in a heavily populated area , with the locals plainly ignoring Sinn Fein calls to report these people to the filth .
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25248063


Must say I do find that headline a bit "father ted"
*Police say gun attack in north Belfast could have killed*


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Garek said:


> 'Eire'?



Eire. The southern part of Ireland.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> update
> 
> a convoy of PSNI vehicles came under heavy  gunfire on thursday evening as they passed Ardoyne, the shooters also constructed a firing platform beforehand to allow them to fire over the wall . Which means preparation that was carried out in  the open in a heavily populated area , with the locals plainly ignoring Sinn Fein calls to report these people to the filth .
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25248063



I must say that 'platform' looks remarkably like an abandoned table, which wouldn't necessarily register on anyone's radar.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 7, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> update
> 
> a convoy of PSNI vehicles came under heavy  gunfire on thursday evening as they passed Ardoyne, the shooters also constructed a firing platform beforehand to allow them to fire over the wall . Which means preparation that was carried out in  the open in a heavily populated area , with the locals plainly ignoring Sinn Fein calls to report these people to the filth .
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25248063


Tbf an oversized  trestle table does take long to set up and losing one of your rifles afterwards doesn't isnt exactly going to strike frear imto the establishment anytime soon.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Nigel said:


> Cannot see how armed struggle at this time could lead to anything.
> Like others have said building and supporting mass movements for change and cross boarder activity for self determination would be productive.
> However it appears that loyalists are increasing sectarian attacks and nationalists and republicans need to be increasingly more on their guard against these 'people' attacking their communities so some military activity is necessary.
> 
> It would have been good if the Provos had stood by the position of 'NOT A BULLET NOT AN OUNCE' standing firm and making sure that such a capitulation was not up for negotiation under the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement.



I think you will find that the Republican side did rather well out of the Good Friday Agreement. Murdering bastards who should not ever have breathed free air again walked free. I note another murdering bastard will serve serve just two years under the aegis of the same agreement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25263411


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

likesfish said:


> Tbf an oversized  trestle table does take long to set up and losing one of your rifles afterwards doesn't isn't exactly going to strike fear into the establishment any time soon.



I don't know whether to be amused or alarmed. Amused in that, as you say, losing one of your AKs is somewhat amateurish; alarmed in that the weapons are in such plentiful supply that the loss doesn't matter.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> well so far youve got nothing useful to add to this thread or the argument either. At the end of the day theyve still got more right to be walking the streets of Ireland than members of the British crown forces, who have no legitimate right to be there . If the British state didnt claim a swathe of another european nations territory as its own there simply wouldnt be an IRA. Or indeed any unionists for that matter, as thered be no union  .
> 
> and if you seriously want to start bandying casualty figures about if we look at even the recent  record of the outfit  you were involved with..well..nuff said really . Or if we consider the lengths you and your former associates would be prepared to go to if your country was occupied by an overwhelmingly powerful military force and you had to resort to sporadic guerilla warfare .....seriously like . Would the possibility of injuring teenage cadets really stop you from planting booby traps in an enemies army base ??
> 
> course it wouldnt, not for an instant ..its bollocks. So when you throw that one out your talking bollocks, and you know it .




Utter and absolute tripe.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> they had already surrendered their positon on that issue when their leadership accepted the Mitchell principles , as a precondition/entry fee to get into the negotiations in the first place . In fact thanks to the Mitchell principles there  was fuck all left to negotiate when they got to the table . The Mitchell principles delegitimised the republican position and legitmised the British position before talks even got underway .



So, upheld the rule of law then? The Republican was position was never legitimate. (Nor, of course, was the position of the Neanderthals on the Unionist side.)


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Deareg said:


> I think it is taboo for any member of any Republican group to get involved with another group, that is standard practice, the IRSP stood in last summers elections and did reasonably well considering very few of them had any electoral experience and they were almost completely ignored by the media with the Daily Mirror not even including them when they printed the list of parties that were standing, they came very close to getting a seat in Strabane, losing the seat on a recount by half a vote, however the fuck that can be managed.



Sorry, but only in Ireland...


----------



## Limerick Red (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> I think you will find that the Republican side did rather well out of the Good Friday Agreement. *Murdering bastards who should not ever have breathed free air again walked free*. I note another murdering bastard will serve serve just two years under the aegis of the same agreement.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-25263411



says muggy squaddie cunt


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 7, 2013)

did the bloke who set the loyalists on pat finacayne ever answer for his murdering ways?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> I must say that 'platform' looks remarkably like an abandoned table, which wouldn't necessarily register on anyone's radar.


It's not, it's an advanced shooting platform set up in defiance of the British State.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Murdering bastards who should not ever have breathed free air again walked free.



yeah and that let that bastard Mandela and his murdering mates out of jail too.... oops sorry . wrong thread


----------



## LiamO (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> I note another murdering bastard will serve serve just two years under the aegis of the same agreement.



I note another bunch of murdering bastards have still not been charged 40 years on for Bloody Sunday... and their commanders all got promoted too.

What's up Sass? Did ye not get yer hole this last while?


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> says muggy squaddie cunt



What a charming person you are, in common with all other supporters of murdering thugs.


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## Limerick Red (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> What a charming person you are, in common with all other supporters of murdering thugs.


Brits out!


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> did the bloke who set the loyalists on pat finacayne ever answer for his murdering ways?



Not as yet. In truth, probably not ever.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Brits out!



Northern Ireland is British. Why should British people leave their own nation?

In the unlikely event of Northern Ireland electing to join Eire, at the point, the British army will, of course, leave.

I think that this is really what pisses off the Republicans, they do not have sufficient popular support for their 'cause'. This of course may be due to the murder and brutality, that they have dealt out to their 'own' people.


----------



## Limerick Red (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Northern Ireland is British. Why should British people leave their own nation?
> 
> In the unlikely event of Northern Ireland electing to join Eire, at the point, the British army will, of course, leave.
> 
> I think that this is really what pisses off the Republicans, they do not have sufficient popular support for their 'cause'. This of course may be due to the murder and brutality, that they have dealt out to their 'own' people.



Republicans have never needed a large mandate, we didnt have one in '16, didn't have one in '22, didnt have one in '56, probably fair to say we had one in '68 and '81, never the less all these parts of the struggle are now looked back on and accepted by the majority on the island as just.

If there isn't ,as you say, sufficient support, these groups will disappear and will not be able to sustain action, if not it means there is enough support in the working class areas of the Island.

For the record I do not support the current campaign as I don't believe there is wholesale community support for it, but I certainly wont condemn it.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 7, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Republicans have never needed a large mandate, we didnt have one in '16, didn't have one in '22, didnt have one in '56, probably fair to say we had one in '68 and '81, never the less all these parts of the struggle are now looked back on and accepted by the majority on the island as just.
> 
> If there isn't ,as you say, sufficient support, these groups will disappear and will not be able to sustain action, if not it means there is enough support in the working class areas of the Island.
> 
> For the record I do not support the current campaign as I don't believe there is wholesale community support for it, but I certainly wont condemn it.



What about 1918? Did ye have or need a large mandate then?


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## framed (Dec 7, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> What about 1918? Did ye have or need a large mandate then?



Whenever republicans and Irish nationalists have had a mandate the British have invariably ignored it.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 7, 2013)

framed said:


> Whenever republicans and Irish nationalists have had a mandate the British have invariably ignored it.



What a nice non-answer answer. Have you considered joining Fianna Fail?

(can`t work out how to do fadas on this German keyboard)


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## framed (Dec 7, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> What a nice non-answer answer.



Ask a nice non-question and you'll get a nice non-answer...


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Northern Ireland is British. Why should British people leave their own nation?
> 
> In the unlikely event of Northern Ireland electing to join Eire, at the point, the British army will, of course, leave.
> 
> I think that this is really what pisses off the Republicans, they do not have sufficient popular support for their 'cause'. This of course may be due to the murder and brutality, that they have dealt out to their 'own' people.


i wonder how many people in britain would have voted to keep the six counties if they'd been offered a vote at any point over the past 40, 45 years. not that many i'd expect.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Northern Ireland is British. Why should British people leave their own nation?
> 
> In the unlikely event of Northern Ireland electing to join Eire, at the point, the British army will, of course, leave.
> 
> I think that this is really what pisses off the Republicans, they do not have sufficient popular support for their 'cause'. This of course may be due to the murder and brutality, that they have dealt out to their 'own' people.



Hey, you might not be British for much longer. Or at least Scotland won't be. That must really smart.


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## N_igma (Dec 7, 2013)

Sas showing that yet again he is the fountain of all idiocy with regard to the situation in the north.

He's been schooled on this time and time again yet he comes back with the same shit. Lost cause mate.


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## Superdupastupor (Dec 7, 2013)

working 2 streets away from the ardoyne autocade shots

saw the raid in progress for the vic street bomb suspects from a few ago.

armed conflict with the polis? hmm ok then,

a suprised incommer writes


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## coley (Dec 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i wonder how many people in britain would have voted to keep the six counties if they'd been offered a vote at any point over the past 40, 45 years. not that many i'd expect.


That was the case in the early seventies and I doubt people's opinions have changed.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i wonder how many people in britain would have voted to keep the six counties if they'd been offered a vote at any point over the past 40, 45 years. not that many i'd expect.



That's not the point though is it?  It is up to the people of Ulster as to whether they would rather remain with Britain or not.

There is also the question as top whether Eire would want to have Ulster join it; they maybe would now, but there must have been times in the last thirty years when the thought of a united Ireland made their blood run cold.

It is very disappointing that things seem to be flaring up again, I had hoped that things would settle.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 7, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Republicans have never needed a large mandate, we didnt have one in '16, didn't have one in '22, didnt have one in '56, probably fair to say we had one in '68 and '81, never the less all these parts of the struggle are now looked back on and accepted by the majority on the island as just.
> 
> If there isn't ,as you say, sufficient support, these groups will disappear and will not be able to sustain action, if not it means there is enough support in the working class areas of the Island.
> 
> For the record I do not support the current campaign as I don't believe there is wholesale community support for it, but I certainly wont condemn it.



Failure to condemn is tacit approval.

Don't you think enough blood has been spilt in a 'war', that will not be won by force?


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## peterkro (Dec 7, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> That's not the point though is it?  It is up to the people of Ulster as to whether they would rather remain with Britain or not.
> 
> There is also the question as top whether Eire would want to have Ulster join it; they maybe would now, but there must have been times in the last thirty years when the thought of a united Ireland made their blood run cold.
> 
> It is very disappointing that things seem to be flaring up again, I had hoped that things would settle.


Three of Ulsters counties are in the free state.If you are going to share an opinion on something FFS get the terminology right and don't be using the brit army big book of derogatory terms.Saying things like that and using terms like "pira" make you sound a complete dick to be honest.


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## toggle (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> That's not the point though is it?  It is up to the people of Ulster as to whether they would rather remain with Britain or not.



this would be the gerrymandered statelet, created as a sop to a group threatening armed rebellion against the government chosen by the majority?


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## Limerick Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Failure to condemn is tacit approval.
> 
> Don't you think enough blood has been spilt in a 'war', that will not be won by force?


fair enough, i approve of cunts gettin merked.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> So, upheld the rule of law then? The Republican was position was never legitimate. (Nor, of course, was the position of the Neanderthals on the Unionist side.)



the republican position is simply that the sovereign ownership of Ireland resides solely in the people of Ireland, not some german fucking parasite going by the name of Windsor . And its a perfectly legitimate position . Unlike hers.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> That's not the point though is it?  It is up to the people of Ulster as to whether they would rather remain with Britain or not.
> 
> There is also the question as top whether Eire would want to have Ulster join it; they maybe would now, but there must have been times in the last thirty years when the thought of a united Ireland made their blood run cold.
> 
> It is very disappointing that things seem to be flaring up again, I had hoped that things would settle.




theres 9 counties in ulster, you daft  cunt . 3 counties were left out of the made up plastic state because there were too many fenians in them . partition is a mockery of any kind of democracy and the position NI is founded on is pure pish, thats why its flaring up again . Basic inevitability.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Worth a watch


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2013)

#


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

good interview here from dutch tv


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Failure to condemn is tacit approval.



indeed it is, thats why insurgents with kalashnikovs can set up firing platforms in the middle of a _UK housing estate_ and open fire on British policemen and not be condemned by their community. much less reported to the filth .


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> What a nice non-answer answer. Have you considered joining Fianna Fail?
> 
> (can`t work out how to do fadas on this German keyboard)




Its true though . The Irish people overwhelmingly approved the republican position at the ballot box . The British state refused to recognise the result .2 years later they had another election. Even more people overwhelmingly approved the republican position, and they ignored that too. Then they changed the rules and created a gerrymandered unionist state with a built in guaranteed unionist majority rooted in institutionalised sectarianism, and ever since the cunts have been demanding that Irish people respect the fucking election results .

thats why Irish people are still shooting at their hired gunmen. such as the dirty no good tramps below


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> Its true though . The Irish people overwhelmingly approved the republican position at the ballot box . The British state refused to recognise the result .2 years later they had another election. Even more people overwhelmingly approved the republican position, and they ignored that too. Then they changed the rules and created a gerrymandered unionist state with a built in guaranteed unionist majority rooted in institutionalised sectarianism, and ever since the cunts have been demanding that Irish people respect the fucking election results .
> 
> thats why Irish people are still shooting at their hired gunmen. such as the dirty no good tramps below



That's not actually the case though, is it? The difference in numbers in the 2011 census was 3%, with the number declaring as Protestant dropping year on year. In the 2010 census the difference was 9%. There is also the point that analysis of numbers, even for people like Ian Paisley, Catholic people have voted for Unionist MPs.

I don't think the matter is anything like as clear cut as you would portray.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> That's not actually the case though, is it? The difference in numbers in the 2011 census was 3%, with the number declaring as Protestant dropping year on year. In the 2010 census the difference was 9%. There is also the point that analysis of numbers, even for people like Ian Paisley, Catholic people have voted for Unionist MPs.
> 
> I don't think the matter is anything like as clear cut as you would portray.



i dont think _the matter_ has at all registered with yourself

Ill try this angle .why is scotland not going to be carved up and  partitioned by westminster against the wishes of the vast majority of scots  to facilitate its sectarian bigots who want to remain british. Surely that would be perfectly fair and democratic..no ? And perfectly legal under international law too....carving up another nations territory to claim that territory as your own on the basis you can find some loyalists concentrated in one corner of it . Afterall its been done before outside of Ireland . Adolf Hitler claimed the sudetenland and Danzig on precisely the same basis ...then there was northern cyprus and Turkey...greater serbia......must be kosher


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## chilango (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't think Danzig is a particularly useful analogy.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 8, 2013)

i thought the sudetenlnd was originally german but got confiscated under versaille to deny ze germans its heavy industrial capacity


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Republicans have never needed a large mandate, we didnt have one in '16, didn't have one in '22, didnt have one in '56, probably fair to say we had one in '68 and '81, never the less all these parts of the struggle are now looked back on and accepted by the majority on the island as just.
> 
> If there isn't ,as you say, sufficient support, these groups will disappear and will not be able to sustain action, if not it means there is enough support in the working class areas of the Island.
> 
> For the record I do not support the current campaign as I don't believe there is wholesale community support for it, but I certainly wont condemn it.



i dont think issues such as popularity and mandate should be confused . Many who voted for Bobby Sands disagreed with physical force and didnt support the IRA either, they were instead supporting a political principle. Namely that it was not a criminal act to take up arms in defence of the nation, regardless of whether or not it was a popular thing to do. The french resistance had very little popular support and were roundly condemned by their press and politicians . But that didnt make them criminals , no matter how much Vichy insisted they were .

The Irish people ratified their sovereignty as a nation at the ballot box in 1918,affirming their national sovereignty was inalienable and indefeasible. From that moment on the British states presence on their national territory has been a usurpation of their national sovereignty, regardless of whether native collaborators or native resistance tends to be en vogue at any given point in  time. Thats where their mandate derives from . And why westminster will never have a legitimate mandate to rule in Ireland,whether directly or via puppet parliaments,  or to criminalise those who resist that rule . All peoples have a right to take up arms in defence of their national sovereignty regardless of whether the decision to do so is popular or not.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

chilango said:


> I don't think Danzig is a particularly useful analogy.



Indeed no. As a Germany and area stamp collector, I'm well aware of the fascinating history of that area, which comprised quite a bit more than the city of Danzig itself.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> i dont think issues such as popularity and mandate should be confused . Many who voted for Bobby Sands disagreed with physical force and didnt support the IRA either, they were instead supporting a political principle. Namely that it was not a criminal act to take up arms in defence of the nation, regardless of whether or not it was a popular thing to do. The french resistance had very little popular support and were roundly condemned by their press and politicians . But that didnt make them criminals , no matter how much Vichy insisted they were .
> 
> The Irish people ratified their sovereignty as a nation at the ballot box in 1918,affirming their national sovereignty was inalienable and indefeasible. From that moment on the British states presence on their national territory has been a usurpation of their national sovereignty, regardless of whether native collaborators or native resistance tends to be en vogue at any given point in  time. Thats where their mandate derives from . And why westminster will never have a legitimate mandate to rule in Ireland,whether directly or via puppet parliaments,  or to criminalise those who resist that rule . All peoples have a right to take up arms in defence of their national sovereignty regardless of whether the decision to do so is popular or not.



Why don't you listen to yourself. That little 'manifesto' above is so wrong, in so many ways, that were it not for the death and suffering involved, would be utterly laughable.

I look forward to the extinction of you and your kind (by the natural progress of Anno Domini, not by violence), because there will be no peace until it happens.

The IRA have never had a legal mandate. The taking up of arms by the lunatic few has never had legitimacy. 

It is within the power of the people of Northern Ireland to legislate for a referendum, either to establish the country as a sovereign state, or to negotiate union with Eire. Why hasn't this happened? Could it be, at present, people are happy with the status quo?  It may be, that at a future time, a referendum may be held. At present though, their is neither legitimacy, or need, to return to murder.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> The IRA have never had a legal mandate. The taking up of arms by the lunatic few has never had legitimacy.
> .



they most certainly have by Jingo, their national parliament gave it to them backed up by the votes of the Irish people , twice, regardless of whether or not the British empire viewed the Irish people exercising their national sovereignty as a criminal conspiracy . Its Britain that has never had  legitimacy in Ireland, and never will have .


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## sleaterkinney (Dec 8, 2013)

Why was the good friday agreement voted resoundingly for on both sides of the border then?. It's as if the past 100 years never happened.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

[quote="Sasaferrato, post: 12759644, member: 





> Why don't you listen to yourself. That little 'manifesto' above is so wrong, in so many ways, that were it not for the death and suffering involved, would be utterly laughable.



nope, its right . The men and women of 1916s actions in declaring Ireland a sovereign nation were affirmed at the ballotbox overwhelmingly by the Irish people . The Irish people established  they were right a very long time ago .


> I look forward to the extinction of you and your kind (by the natural progress of Anno Domini, not by violence), because there will be no peace until it happens.


even a cursory watch of the videos on this page will tell you youll be long extinct before that happens, along with your arse about face analysis .



> It is within the power of the people of Northern Ireland to legislate for a referendum, either to establish the country as a sovereign state, or to negotiate union with Eire. Why hasn't this happened? Could it be, at present, people are happy with the status quo?  It may be, that at a future time, a referendum may be held. At present though, their is neither legitimacy, or need, to return to murder.



the existence of the crowns little statelet on Irish territory is a violation of the nations right to exist as a sovereign entity and the Irish peoples right to determine their own future as a sovereign people free from imperialist domination. It therefore has no legitimacy , and never will have regardless of the vagaries of imported British constitutionalism in someone elses nation .
we already had our referendum in 1918, the Irish people told westminster to get the fuck out . we dont need any more referenda, Britain needs simply to finally accept the result of that one .


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## toggle (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> we already had our referendum in 1918, the Irish people told westminster to get the fuck out . we dont need any more referenda, Britain needs simply to finally accept the result of that one .



During the main Home Rule debate/campaign period, a majority of the British people supported Home Rule. The rejection of home rule by a minority in the north was against the wishes of the British and Irish people.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> Why was the good friday agreement voted resoundingly for on both sides of the border then?. It's as if the past 100 years never happened.





the Belfast Agreement pertained solely to the running of the north of Ireland by Britain . It therefore wasnt voted for by the people in the 26 counties . there were two seperate referenda on 2 seperate issues in 2 seperate states either side of the border that just happened to be held on the same day . The  issue of whether or not they wanted a united Ireland wasnt even put to them, so goalposts are simply moved as and when it suits westminster and NATO interests.  And regardless of how many people voted for what westminster have dumped it into histories dustbin after it became unfit for purpose a few years later. The Belfast Agreement no longer exists . Its been superceded by some other agreement cobbled together at a golf club in scotland a few years back, which absolutely nobody has voted for . Foreign forces of occupation can do these things on a whim as and when it suits.

And the reason why the Belfast Agreement was so electorally popular was that it was marketted and hyped as the only alternative to armed conflict, Id have thought that was perfectly obvious . It neither made that either true or legitimate . Afterall a vastly superior foreign force of occupation demanding a sovereign people abandon their sovereignty otherwise therell be murder and mayhem is an act of aggression, and a criminal one at that . Such a process has no legitimacy and is an affront to the notion of democracy .


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

toggle said:


> During the main Home Rule debate/campaign period, a majority of the British people supported Home Rule. The rejection of home rule by a minority in the north was against the wishes of the British and Irish people.



and that unionist minority in the north still have a veto over the majority in Ireland.


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## likesfish (Dec 8, 2013)

Thing was that was 90 years ago things have moved on the last vote was 97 where the vast majority of everyone on the island agreed any change in sovrienty would be agreed by the people who live  in the north.
 Everyone who voted in 1918 is dead.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4079267.stm
 74% in the north and 94% in the south voted for it.

it may not be perfect but it was real unlike the celtic socialist republic nirvana thats bollocks


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

likesfish said:


> Thing was that was 90 years ago things have moved on the last vote was 97 where the vast majority of everyone on the island agreed any change in sovrienty would be agreed by the people who live  in the north.
> Everyone who voted in 1918 is dead.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4079267.stm
> 74% in the north and 94% in the south voted for it.
> ...



its in historys dustbin, where it belongs . It doesnt exist any more. And the process had no legitimacy, sovereignty was being violated by a foreign power in 1997, just as it was in 1918 . It had no right to be making any demands or threats to the Irish people to vote for anything on the grounds therell be war otherwise . Thats an act of aggression . The British state must simply accept they have no right to be occupying anyone elses national territory and permit the people on that territory to determine their own futures as a unit free from foreign interference . Anything else will simply lead to more armed conflict, and the inevitability of that is what we are seeing on the streets of belfast and elsewhere. 

Their peace process was never any such thing, it was simply yet another attempt by the British state to confer a spurious legitmacy on itself . The basis of the armed conflict simply wasnt even admitted to, much less addressed . it was a whitehouse and westminster exercise in imperialism, not an exercise in democracy .


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

another gun attack on the crown forces in Belfast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25280430


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## kenny g (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> another gun attack on the crown forces in Belfast
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25280430



Fortunately no-one was hurt. Or are you disappointed that they weren't?


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

why do you assume im the type of person whod take pleasure from someone being injured, even if theyre a running dog of imperialism. just because ive an opinion on a political issue it doesnt make me a monster. Thats a bit unfair tbh


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> why do you assume im the type of person whod take pleasure from someone being injured, even if theyre a running dog of imperialism. just because ive an opinion on a political issue it doesnt make me a monster. Thats a bit unfair tbh


The earlier video you posted laughing and applauding warrenpoint suggested that you actually did take some pleasure in that stuff.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Why don't you listen to yourself. That little 'manifesto' above is so wrong, in so many ways, that were it not for the death and suffering involved, would be utterly laughable.
> 
> I look forward to the extinction of you and your kind (by the natural progress of Anno Domini, not by violence), because there will be no peace until it happens.
> 
> ...



You're a clueless fucking idiot. The problems in northern ireland were caused by shameless imperialist manouvres of the british in the region. Your involvement was to put the boot down on the necks of those who dared resist this occupation. You're a fucking disgrace. Try and reconcile that with whichever god you're worshipping this week.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

likesfish said:


> 74% in the north and 94% in the south voted for it.



the percentages are  only of those who voted, not the population itself . And the question of a united Ireland wasnt put to them, naturally. No way theyd actually be allowed to vote for that. Not that they should even need to.
And like i said westminster binned it a few years later when it quickly became unfit for purpose. Surprised none of you supporting it even noticed that.


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## likesfish (Dec 8, 2013)

the difference between Ireland and the UK is what?
  convince enough of the north and your have your united Ireland.
  30 years of violence didn't do it a few more murders wont either


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> You're a clueless fucking idiot. The problems in northern ireland were caused by shameless imperialist manouvres of the british in the region. Your involvement was to put the boot down on the necks of those who dared resist this occupation. You're a fucking disgrace. Try and reconcile that with whichever god you're worshipping this week.



You truly are a delude soul. Firstly in your support for a completely lost 'cause'. Secondly in that you seem to feel that I give the smidgeon of a fuck as to your opinion of me.

You are wrong in the view of any sensible person.

Oh, btw, the no reporting of the 'firing platform' may well be due to the well documented brutality of the Republican movement to their own people, rather than support for the attack.

Edited to add:

Are all Republicans so semi-literate? Is it stupidity or idleness? Not to capitalise even your beloved ireland is heresy surely?


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

heres an interesting survey that was undertaken some years ago by the University of Liverpool. It pretty much exposes that _no support for dissidents _nonsense as the nonsense it is.


> But Professor Jon Tonge of Liverpool University, in the Ulster Newsletter today, said: "One of the mantras of the peace process is that 'dissident' republicans have no support … yet the assumption that dissidents have no support has been precisely that – an assumption, untroubled by actual evidence either way."



http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/oct/06/one-in-seven-nationalists-support-terrorists

Bear in mind too that this was a survey were strange english people were stopping Irish people in the street and asking them pretty tricky questions to be giving an opinion on . And since it was taken thereve been further defections from sinn fein so one would assume thats gotten higher over the last couple of years .


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

likesfish said:


> the difference between Ireland and the UK is what?
> convince enough of the north and your have your united Ireland.
> 30 years of violence didn't do it a few more murders wont either



Quite. A shame to see the same deluded half wits popping up again though.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> heres an interesting survey that was undertaken some years ago by the University of Liverpool. It pretty much exposes that _no support for dissidents _nonsense as the nonsense it is.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/oct/06/one-in-seven-nationalists-support-terrorists
> 
> Bear in mind too that this was a survey were strange english people were stopping Irish people in the street and asking them pretty tricky questions to be giving an opinion on . And since it was taken thereve been further defections from sinn fein so one would assume thats gotten higher over the last couple of years .



1 in 7 seven amongst their own? Impressive.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> 1 in 7 seven amongst their own? Impressive.



Im actually unimpressed one in 7 people were so stupid to admit that to some stranger in the street with an english accent and a clipboard. And Im quite sure many werent that stupid . Could just as easily have been an intel exercise


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2013)

Who says it was english people conducting surveys? And they were certainly not done by approaching random people on the street. That's pretty much the opposite of how polling is conducted.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Who says it was english people conducting surveys? And they were certainly not done by approaching random people on the street. That's pretty much the opposite of how polling is conducted.


When I did polling in places like Andersonstown, I would go door-to-door. I think I was only told to fuck off once. Anyway, one respondent turned out to work for the Andytown News, and he wrote me up in his column the next week. But that seems to have disappeared from the net.

The one thing I didn't like doing that work was having to hand people a card with "A)Protestant B)Catholic C) Other D) Refuse to say" on it and asking them if they were A, B, C, D. Most people I met were OK with it, strangely enough.

Oh, and most people in Belfast thought I was either a D4 or American. Apart from the small children who thought I was Chinese.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

i dont even answer the door to strangers


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> i dont even answer the door to strangers



You monster.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

theyre usually some form of officialdom or do gooder , all tend to want money. They can feck right off.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> theyre usually some form of officialdom or do gooder , all tend to want money. They can feck right off.


Except for market researchers, who only want your TIME. And to know if you are A, B, C, or D.


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## likesfish (Dec 8, 2013)

its brave-heart style bollocks the loyalist neighbors are going to disappear and the British state didn't cave into the last two ira campaigns the Irish state isn't keen on the idea either.
 surely Idris you already knew if they were a or b ?  I suppose c was so are you a protestant or catholic other?


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

my bear trap doesnt discriminate Im afraid


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## kenny g (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> why do you assume im the type of person whod take pleasure from someone being injured, even if theyre a running dog of imperialism. just because ive an opinion on a political issue it doesnt make me a monster. Thats a bit unfair tbh



It was a question, not an assumption. Assuming you would not take pleasure in crown forces being injured, what would your reaction be to someone telling you they believe in shooting them?


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

likesfish said:


> the difference between Ireland and the UK is what?
> convince enough of the north and your have your united Ireland.
> 30 years of violence didn't do it a few more murders wont either



convincing them theyre not the lost tribe of israel, that the giants causeway isnt 6000 years old, that an accent most of them dont have  isnt a language, that theres nothing british about wearing a bowler hat and banging a drum outside a chapel...that would be a start. The British state seems intent on convincing them otherwise though. And thats why they gerrymandered democracy in Ireland to begin with.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

kenny g said:


> It was a question, not an assumption. Assuming you would not take pleasure in crown forces being injured, what would your reaction be to someone telling you they believe in shooting them?



as its a perfectly normal point of view round here, as evidenced in the University survey,  I wouldnt have much of a reaction to it.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> convincing them theyre not the lost tribe of israel, that the giants causeway isnt 6000 years old, that an accent most of them dont have  isnt a language, that theres nothing british about wearing a bowler hat and banging a drum outside a chapel...that would be a start. The British state seems intent on convincing them otherwise though. And thats why they gerrymandered democracy in Ireland to begin with.



Oh well. The census figures show a decreasing gap between Unionist and Nationalist. By the next census, there will likely be a Nationalist majority. At that point, a referendum could be held.

In the mean time, a return to sectarian murder is not to be welcomed.


----------



## toggle (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> In the mean time, a return to sectarian murder is not to be welcomed.



considering the lack of evidence for sectarian attacks by republicans, perhaps you could explain this a bit further? have I misunderstood something or are you trying to redefine the term sectarian?


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> In the mean time, a return to sectarian murder is not to be welcomed.



well lets hope the British government doesnt start sending its death squads out to do it again .


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> well lets hope the British government doesnt start sending its death squads out to do it again .



You very probably know more about that than I do. My knowledge is limited to the Panorama programme that was on recently. I watched with increasing disbelief, then sadness.

This is something that needs to be thoroughly investigated, with *all* of those who are guilty, not just the soldiers, but those who sent them, standing in a dock to answer for it. Killing known terrorists is one thing; I do not condone such tactics; but the murder of innocent people who happened to on the street is beyond reprehensible. I am ashamed by the actions of those people, who were part of the same institution as I was, albeit I joined some time after their actions. Cameron has stated that there is no question of an amnesty.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 8, 2013)

toggle said:


> considering the lack of evidence for sectarian attacks by republicans, perhaps you could explain this a bit further? have I misunderstood something or are you trying to redefine the term sectarian?



OK, murder. Just murder.


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## Casually Red (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> You very probably know more about that than I do. My knowledge is limited to the Panorama programme that was on recently. I watched with increasing disbelief, then sadness.
> 
> This is something that needs to be thoroughly investigated, with *all* of those who are guilty, not just the soldiers, but those who sent them, standing in a dock to answer for it. Killing known terrorists is one thing; I do not condone such tactics; but the murder of innocent people who happened to on the street is beyond reprehensible. I am ashamed by the actions of those people, who were part of the same institution as I was, albeit I joined some time after their actions. Cameron has stated that there is no question of an amnesty.



the collusion policy was very much in force for the entire duration of the previous conflict . Particularly from the mid 1980s onwards. The reason noone will stand trial for it is simple, they may need the killer gangs again in the future. The UDA and UVF will remain part of the states arsenal .


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## Limerick Red (Dec 17, 2013)

Colin Duffy charged again...lets see how this goes


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## LiamO (Dec 17, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> *This is something that needs to be thoroughly investigated*, _with _*all*_ of those who are guilty, not just the soldiers, but those who sent them, standing in a dock to answer for it. Killing known terrorists is one thing; I do not condone such tactics; but the murder of innocent people who happened to on the street is beyond reprehensible. I am ashamed by the actions of those people, who were part of the same institution as I was, albeit I joined some time after their actions. Cameron has stated that there is no question of an amnesty._



Similar things _have_ been investigated by the HET (Historical Enquiries Team - a team of experienced, english, police officers who are hardly biased towards Republicans). There reports are in the public domain and form much of the evidential basis of the recent book 'Lethal Allies' (By Anne Cadwallader, whose father, brother and sister all served in the british army).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lethal-Allies-British-Collusion-Ireland/dp/1781171882/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387301287&sr=8-1&keywords=lethal allies anne cadwallader

You should read it Sass. Then you would no longer be speaking from a position of ignorance.

But beware... it _will _chill you to the bone... it _will_ challenge and destroy many of your heart-felt beliefs... and your world will _never_ be the same again. I know this because I believe you are an honourable man, who genuinely believes he served in an honourable institution. Pity so many of your colleagues behaved so differently.

For me, the truly scary thing about 'Lethal Allies' is not just the sheer scale of active involvement in sectarian bombings, shootings and assassinations by serving RUC and british army personnel... but the fact that Republicans were _very rarely_ targeted (in fact it seems it was more life threatening to be an SDLP activist than a Republican).

Nor was it just 'random' Catholics. They seem to have deliberately and consistently targeted the emergent Catholic middleclass/business class... you know the very socially-aspirant, moderates which britain was _supposedly_ (at least publicly) appealing to.

Why you'd almost think they had an a different strategy and aim from the british govt they were being well paid to serve.

What do you think Sasaferrato ? Man enough to give the book a read?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 17, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Are all Republicans so semi-literate? Is it stupidity or idleness? Not to capitalise even your beloved ireland is heresy surely?



Or maybe because typing with a mobile device leads to a greater number of typos than typing with a keyboard.


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## Buckaroo (Dec 17, 2013)

More of it

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...worker-carries-device-from-shop-29843573.html


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## Casually Red (Dec 17, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Similar things _have_ been investigated by the HET (Historical Enquiries Team). There reports are in the public domain and form much of the evidentiary basis of the recent book Lethal Allies (By Anne Cadwallader, whose father, brother and sister all served in the british army).
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lethal-Allies-British-Collusion-Ireland/dp/1781171882/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387301287&sr=8-1&keywords=lethal allies anne cadwallader
> 
> ...



If I thought for one second hed actually read the thing Id fucking buy it for him personally . Not a joke, I sincerely mean that .


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 17, 2013)

very good book imo, hadn't heard about the mid-ulster murder gang before.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 17, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Are all Republicans so semi-literate? Is it stupidity or idleness? Not to capitalise even your beloved ireland is heresy surely?


you seem to have avoided the 'I' in Ireland yourself.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 17, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> If I thought for one second hed actually read the thing Id fucking buy it for him personally . Not a joke, I sincerely mean that .



Kindly hold your tongue, you unmannerly cur, and allow the honourable gentleman to speak for himself


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## revol68 (Dec 17, 2013)

Pity that incendiary device failed, we are surely only a few burnt out golf sale units away from freedom!


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## Pickman's model (Dec 17, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Pity that incendiary device failed, we are surely only a few burnt out golf sale units away from freedom!


you a regular at the links?


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 17, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Pity that incendiary device failed, we are surely only a few burnt out golf sale units away from freedom!




if you were his oc hed be running about waving a union jack and shouting _class_ at random passersby.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 17, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> if you were his oc hed be running about waving a union jack and shouting _class_ at random passersby.


if revol68 was his oc he'd have burned himself alive a long time ago.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Similar things _have_ been investigated by the HET (Historical Enquiries Team - a team of experienced, english, police officers who are hardly biased towards Republicans). There reports are in the public domain and form much of the evidential basis of the recent book 'Lethal Allies' (By Anne Cadwallader, whose father, brother and sister all served in the british army).
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lethal-Allies-British-Collusion-Ireland/dp/1781171882/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387301287&sr=8-1&keywords=lethal allies anne cadwallader
> 
> ...



Of course. I've just ordered it from Amazon.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you seem to have avoided the 'I' in Ireland yourself.



I did. Apologies.


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## LiamO (Dec 18, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Of course. I've just ordered it from Amazon.



I look forward to your views.


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## Buckaroo (Dec 18, 2013)

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/re...former-ira-men-1-5755816#.UrGjItmXaWw.twitter


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## LiamO (Dec 18, 2013)

I see Anto-no-mates makes it all the Shinners fault too... gotta love him


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## Buckaroo (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I see Anto-no-mates makes it all the Shinners fault too... gotta love hime



Don't get that, not at all. What are you saying?


----------



## LiamO (Dec 18, 2013)

_



			Mr McIntyre added that he believes Sinn Fein needs to tell dissidents “that the IRA lost the war”.

“Armed republicanism was defeated and it was given up,” he said.
		
Click to expand...


Like they will a) listen and b) give a fuck_


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> _
> Like they will a) listen and b) give a fuck_



Ah, no you're right, they won't listen and they won't give a fuck. Crack on lads, who gives a fuck.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 18, 2013)

I suspect we are labouring under misunderstandings here.

I was referring to those currently involved in/suportive of an armed campaign listening to, or giving a fuck about, what Sinn Fein might say on the subject.

This is hardly news, is it? And yet McIntyre apparently believes their intervention would somehow halt the Jihadists in their tracks.


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I suspect we are labouring under misunderstandings here.
> 
> I was referring to those currently involved in/suportive of an armed campaign listening to, or giving a fuck about, what Sinn Fein might say on the subject.
> 
> This is hardly news, is it? And yet McIntyre apparently believes their intervention would somehow halt the Jihadists in their tracks.



I don't think they really think that. It's just a handy stick to beat the Shinners with.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I suspect we are labouring under misunderstandings here.
> 
> I was referring to those currently involved in/suportive of an armed campaign listening to, or giving a fuck about, what Sinn Fein might say on the subject.
> 
> This is hardly news, is it? And yet McIntyre apparently believes their intervention would somehow halt the Jihadists in their tracks.



Yeah I get that but I doubt Anto-no-mates would believe shinners intervention would affect the jihadists in any way, ever, he might say it but he don't believe it cos he don't believe them. You get me?


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I suspect we are labouring under misunderstandings here.
> 
> I was referring to those currently involved in/suportive of an armed campaign listening to, or giving a fuck about, what Sinn Fein might say on the subject.
> 
> This is hardly news, is it? And yet McIntyre apparently believes their intervention would somehow halt the Jihadists in their tracks.




And not only that very very  basic logic would tell anyone  the knowlege the PIRA lost the war is why the current generation of insurgents feel they have to fight it . Is he seriosuly saying todays republicans are engaging in armed struggle because they believe the provos actually won ? Its the logic of his position .

Hes also now taken to calling republicans_ the dissidents_ , a perjorative term he has fulminated against Sinn Fein and others using  in the past . He regularly demanded an explanation from the shinners as to what republican beliefs they were dissenting from .

Hes talking shit, and seemingly as a means of getting himself in the papers . Remember too this is the guy who regularly put himself forward as a self appointed spokesperson for the republican milieu that refused to accept the provos betrayal . He was on the telly and in the papers  for years articulating the sense of betrayal those people felt at republicanisms defeat at the hands of the shinners....And now hes in the papers excaliming the same people need to be told the provos lost 

opportunist cunt. He should fuck off out of it and restrict himself to more pr work for Tom McFeely .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 18, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> I don't think they really think that. It's just a handy stick to beat the Shinners with.



he has a valid point in that the shinners continue to put about the myth they won thanks to the provo campaign , and that an admission they lost would help clarify the political situation. Where he falls completely on his arse though is its obvious the people hes criticisng know full well they lost, otherwise they would be joining the PSNI as sinn fein urge people to do as opposed to joining the IRA . And whats more if the shinners did come clean as to their defeat thered be even more people joining the insurgent ranks, not less .

The prick .


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> _
> Like they will a) listen and b) give a fuck_



They won't, and neither will the Neanderthals on the Unionist side.

What do any of them hope to achieve? The recent bomb in Belfast is reckoned to have cost local businesses £60k. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25403095)

It will cost Belfast more than that if the 'campaign' continues. Loss of business, loss of jobs, impoverishment of a city that was getting back on its feet. 

What will this achieve? Are they trying to ramp things up to previous levels? 

It is my view that any part of the UK should have the right to determine their own future. Whereas I vehemently oppose the prospect of an independent Scotland, I do not oppose the holding of a referendum. The future of a nation should be determined by the people of that nation. Let Northern Ireland have a referendum on either independence, or union with Eire.

On another thread, someone mentioned that there will be troops aplenty available soon; that is indeed the case, but not one single soldier should be sent to Northern Ireland. We (the collective, ex-soldier 'we') have shed enough blood. Had too many people blown up, shot at and murdered. Enough is enough. Fight it out to a bloody conclusion if you wish.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 18, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I look forward to your views.



In due course, for what they are worth, you shall have them. I don't know nearly enough about Northern Ireland during that time.


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## LiamO (Dec 18, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> Hes also now taken to calling republicans_ the dissidents_ , a perjorative term he has fulminated against Sinn Fein and others using  in the past . He regularly demanded an explanation from the shinners as to what republican beliefs they were dissenting from .
> .



... and yet you yourself were quoting him as a person of considerable intellectual and political weight... on here... not long ago.


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## LiamO (Dec 18, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> I don't think they really think that. It's just a handy stick to beat the Shinners with.



indeed. any stick'll do.



Buckaroo said:


> Yeah I get that but I doubt Anto-no-mates would believe shinners intervention would affect the jihadists in any way, ever, he might say it but he don't believe it cos he don't believe them. You get me?



now I have you.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 18, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> he has a valid point in that the shinners continue to put about the myth they won thanks to the provo campaign ,



yawn. I believe their consistent claim has been/is that the 'struggle' has merely moved to a different, political, terrain... and that an armed campaign had become an impediment.

Ultimately it all comes down to whether you think armed struggle is a tactic or a sacred cow... a bit like entering the World Chess Championship and insisting on still playing Draughts.... cos you reckon are good at them


----------



## framed (Dec 18, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> And not only that very very  basic logic would tell anyone  the knowlege the PIRA lost the war is why the current generation of insurgents feel they have to fight it . Is he seriosuly saying todays republicans are engaging in armed struggle because they believe the provos actually won ? Its the logic of his position .
> 
> Hes also now taken to calling republicans_ the dissidents_ , a perjorative term he has fulminated against Sinn Fein and others using  in the past . He regularly demanded an explanation from the shinners as to what republican beliefs they were dissenting from .
> 
> ...



I've got no problem reading his point of view without resorting to the usual 'jihadist' comments or silly name-calling, as is Liam's habit to personalise the political. It's a boring apolitical mantra that is like an oft-repeated lie which eventually finds believers among the gullible. Maybe if a 'joke' is repeated often enough someone will eventually laugh at it? I agree with very little that McIntyre has to say, but political disagreement with him does not invalidate his point of view, nor does it preclude his right to express it. Whilst he is a former blanket man and political prisoner, I doubt that he even sees himself as a republican these days and he is certainly no socialist, but not all of his political commentary is 'shit' and to simply dismiss it as such is to resort to the same type of Stalinist tactics in which the Shinners and their fellow travelers excel.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 19, 2013)

the problem is the diffrence between the South and the North are miniscule leaving out the headbanger unionists if you find it so intolerable under british rule you could just move
   Half the problem is a brain drain as large numbers of reasonable people have fucked off leaving pockets of even more concentrated bigatory and idiocy on both sides.
   Normal people dont think singing sectarian songs outside a catholic church is a reasonable thing to do or expect thats a  right that anyone would defend.
  Normal people dont think trying to burn golf shops down is a politcal statement  nothing wrong with burning golf shops and courses as a matter of course.


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## revol68 (Dec 19, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I suspect we are labouring under misunderstandings here.
> 
> I was referring to those currently involved in/suportive of an armed campaign listening to, or giving a fuck about, what Sinn Fein might say on the subject.
> 
> This is hardly news, is it? And yet McIntyre apparently believes their intervention would somehow halt the Jihadists in their tracks.



he's not saying it will have an affect on the core of the dissidents, he's saying it might have an affect upon the wider political landscape that the dissidents recruit from.The shinners hypocrisy affirms the idea that armed struggle works, even if dissidents insist they sold out (rather than defeated), as does ironically the unionist whinging about "concessions to IRA/Sinn Fein" over every reform.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 19, 2013)

likesfish said:


> the problem is the diffrence between the South and the North are miniscule leaving out the headbanger unionists if you find it so intolerable under british rule you could just move


no. you move.


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 19, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no. you move.



Hardcore pawn.



revol68 said:


> he's not saying it will have an affect on the core of the dissidents, he's saying it might have an affect upon the wider political landscape that the dissidents recruit from.



It might, but I really doubt it. For people who join or support the dissidents, that decision comes at the end of a long journey, and by the time they reach that point it'll take a lot more than The Beard showing Leadership to dissuade them.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 19, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> Hardcore pawn.
> 
> 
> 
> It might, but I really doubt it. For people who join or support the dissidents, that decision comes at the end of a long journey, and by the time they reach that point it'll take a lot more than The Beard showing Leadership to dissuade them.



I don't think the shinners ever will admit the failure of the armed struggle but I get McIntyre's point, that their revisionism helps the dissidents, firstly because it politically and ethically undercuts any of their condemnation of the dissidents, I mean you can't help but laugh as Marty and Gerry trot out the old cliches of "this madness only serves to put lives in danger and hurt the economy" like they are the SDLP in 1978, so aye bombing and shooting was grand when they did it but not for anyone else.

Secondly their line of undefeated army implies that it could have won if they hadn't sold out, this involves not only a dishonest assessment of the failings of the armed struggle of the past but implicitly suggests to dissidents, or more importantly the sections they recruit from, that what it takes for a united ireland is to stick with it, to not sell out for the trappings of office etc. This is because lots of dissidents see the "defeat" as the selling out of the leadership and not a failing of armed struggle republicanism in general.

For what it's worth I think McIntyre is one of the most thorough and honest of republican writers, willing to follow his logic to some uncomfortable home truths, regardless of who this makes him unpopular with.


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 19, 2013)

revol68 said:


> I don't think the shinners ever will admit the failure of the armed struggle but I get McIntyre's point, that their revisionism helps the dissidents, firstly because it politically and ethically undercuts any of their condemnation of the dissidents, I mean you can't help but laugh as Marty and Gerry trot out the old cliches of "this madness only serves to put lives in danger and hurt the economy" like they are the SDLP in 1978, so aye bombing and shooting was grand when they did it but not for anyone else.
> 
> Secondly their line of undefeated army implies that it could have won if they hadn't sold out, this involves not only a dishonest assessment of the failings of the armed struggle of the past but implicitly suggests to dissidents, or more importantly the sections they recruit from, that what it takes for a united ireland is to stick with it, to not sell out for the trappings of office etc.



The "undefeated army" thing is true in one sense and one sense only, that the Brits were unable to impose a purely security-based solution.

And the dissidents rely on a much older Irish tradition of physical force as a legitimate political option, one whose roots do not depend on the life support system of  the "Shinners revisionism".


----------



## revol68 (Dec 19, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> The "undefeated army" thing is true in one sense and one sense only, that the Brits were unable to impose a purely security-based solution.
> 
> And the dissidents rely on a much older Irish tradition of physical force as a legitimate political option, one whose roots do not depend on the life support system of  the "Shinners revisionism".



But criticism from within republicanism is undermined by this "revisionism" as it stops a proper and honest assessment of the failings of armed struggle, instead criticisms tend to be come from within the shinners revisionist discourse and therefore lack both intellectual and ethical weight, as it comes down to "do as we say not what we did"and it's hard to argue armed struggle is counterproductive when you claim it was necessary for 30 years in order to win a historical victory for northern nationalists...

Dissidents can then rightly laugh that this was no historical victory, that the fallen never fought for Gerry to sit in Stormont and so this undefeated army was sold out and the struggle should continue.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 19, 2013)

The shadow over all of it is the centenary. McIntyre is right in calling for the Shinners to declare 'Down with this kind of thing' but he's asking them to condemn themselves which they can't do for obvious reasons of legitimacy but also because they have no purchase with the people they left behind and he knows it and they know it.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

LiamO said:


> ... and yet you yourself were quoting him as a person of considerable intellectual and political weight... on here... not long ago.



as regards weight hes a fat bastard . As regards intellectual ability his phd speaks for itself . Politically he speaks for nobody only himself, despite the media preferring to use him for dissident soundbites rather than asking groups designated spokespersons for their view . As regards this particular subject he happens to be talking a load of old shite .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> The shadow over all of it is the centenary. McIntyre is right in calling for the Shinners to declare 'Down with this kind of thing' but he's asking them to condemn themselves which they can't do for obvious reasons of legitimacy but also because they have no purchase with the people they left behind and he knows it and they know it.




good points, but in my view theyve left the shinners behind, not vice versa


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

dp


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> The "undefeated army" thing is true in one sense and one sense only, that the Brits were unable to impose a purely security-based solution.
> 
> And the dissidents rely on a much older Irish tradition of physical force as a legitimate political option, one whose roots do not depend on the life support system of  the "Shinners revisionism".



well said

and indeed they can go further and claim all nations whos sovereignty is violated by a foreign occupation are entitled to use armed resistance , which would force the shinners to deny there is one, were they to ever have the balls to engage politically with the people they condemn .

eta

or to be more accurate , politically engage with the people sinn fein are paid handsomely to condemn and criminalise, by that foreign occupying power


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

revol68 said:


> I don't think the shinners ever will admit the failure of the armed struggle but I get McIntyre's point, that their revisionism helps the dissidents, firstly because it politically and ethically undercuts any of their condemnation of the dissidents, I mean you can't help but laugh as Marty and Gerry trot out the old cliches of "this madness only serves to put lives in danger and hurt the economy" like they are the SDLP in 1978, so aye bombing and shooting was grand when they did it but not for anyone else.
> 
> Secondly their line of undefeated army implies that it could have won if they hadn't sold out, this involves not only a dishonest assessment of the failings of the armed struggle of the past but implicitly suggests to dissidents, or more importantly the sections they recruit from, that what it takes for a united ireland is to stick with it, to not sell out for the trappings of office etc. This is because lots of dissidents see the "defeat" as the selling out of the leadership and not a failing of armed struggle republicanism in general.
> 
> For what it's worth I think McIntyre is one of the most thorough and honest of republican writers, willing to follow his logic to some uncomfortable home truths, regardless of who this makes him unpopular with.




I have no difficulty at all with McIntyre arguing against armed struggle, my own argument against it is on this thread . The basis of his argument in this context is a load of old shite though . In fact what hes openly stating is theres not any political motivation  to current armed actions and its a result of psychopathy . Which isnt a kick in the arse off criminalisation .

  If McIntyre is arguing from a republican perspective then the onus is on him to point to an alternative, he doesnt though . Because he isnt . Hes permitting himself to be used as a soundbite of clamour , condemnation , demonisation and adding to the overall criminalisation of armed struggle by denying its political basis . In a context were Irish republicans are now being judicially interned thats a fucking disgrace .
Theres only one reason why theres armed struggle in Ireland and thats because theres a British occupation . In his denunciations McIntyre doesnt even mention that . Hes in useful idiot territory and seems happy enough with it .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

framed said:


> I've got no problem reading his point of view without resorting to the usual 'jihadist' comments or silly name-calling, as is Liam's habit to personalise the political. It's a boring apolitical mantra that is like an oft-repeated lie which eventually finds believers among the gullible. Maybe if a 'joke' is repeated often enough someone will eventually laugh at it? I agree with very little that McIntyre has to say, but political disagreement with him does not invalidate his point of view, nor does it preclude his right to express it. Whilst he is a former blanket man and political prisoner, I doubt that he even sees himself as a republican these days and he is certainly no socialist, but not all of his political commentary is 'shit' and to simply dismiss it as such is to resort to the same type of Stalinist tactics in which the Shinners and their fellow travelers excel.



He is permitting himself be used by the media as  voice of republicanism, if he isnt identifying himself as  a republican in the public arena then the onus is on him to clarify his statements. He pointedly does not . And I certainly dont dismiss everything he says as shit . But hes talking shit on this occasion and I feel Ive outlined why he is in a fairly non stalinist manner .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

LiamO said:


> yawn. I believe their consistent claim has been/is that the 'struggle' has merely moved to a different, political, terrain... and that an armed campaign had become an impediment.
> 
> Ultimately it all comes down to whether you think armed struggle is a tactic or a sacred cow... a bit like entering the World Chess Championship and insisting on still playing Draughts.... cos you reckon are good at them




No Liam , theyve accepted there is no British occupation , that Irish territory is legitimately the Queens realm ,that westminster can legitimately partition Ireland, that a unionist minority can veto Irish democracy  and that armed struggle is an act of serious criminality and the only people in the 6 counties with a legitimate right to carry and use arms are the British crown forces.

had they simply decided not to persue armed struggle its highly unlikely thered have been any major splits . However there are more important issues at stake than sacred cows . Whats at stake is the legitimacy of Irish sovereignty itself and the republican political position towards it . Versus the legitimacy of British rule, and indeed active Irish collaboration with it . Its in the arena of armed struggle were the maximum polarisation between the 2 positions is most evident . And what they have suceeded in doing in my view is exposing precisely what it was Sinn Fein actually did and the nature of the political deal British rule is reliant upon .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

revol68 said:


> But criticism from within republicanism is undermined by this "revisionism" as it stops a proper and honest assessment of the failings of armed struggle, instead criticisms tend to be come from within the shinners revisionist discourse and therefore lack both intellectual and ethical weight, as it comes down to "do as we say not what we did"and it's hard to argue armed struggle is counterproductive when you claim it was necessary for 30 years in order to win a historical victory for northern nationalists...
> 
> Dissidents can then rightly laugh that this was no historical victory, that the fallen never fought for Gerry to sit in Stormont and so this undefeated army was sold out and the struggle should continue.



while you make some good points Id say youre completely wrong about this preventing honest assessment of the pros and cons of armed struggle . Its pitfalls and drawbacks have been candidly discussed in republican circles as long as I can remember . Indeed groups such as Eirigi pointedly make the case they firmly disagree with its persuance from a republican standpoint .

The issue currently at stake within republicanism is not armed struggles effectiveness but more crucially its political and national legitimacy versus its criminalisation by the occupation forces . That political battle is what was at stake in the H Blocks in 80 and 81 . And indeed in the GPO in 1916 . Whats at stake currently is the legitimacy of  republicanism itself as a political ideology, and  Irelands right to exist as a sovereign nation . Armed struggle today is forcing those within republicanism to decide which side of that historicalpolitical divide they stand on regardless of whether they support armed struggle or not . Do they stand with the forces of the crown and the apparatus of the colonial state or do they dispute the crown forces right to exist in Ireland . That dilemma is what has much wider political implications.

McIntyres very well aware of this but dliberately chooses not to address it . And whats more he has more opportunity than most to address it and point to alternatives . Fact is he doesnt have any so chooses the route of empty condemnation . Martin McGuinness is paid to do that job, McIntyre should just let him get on with it .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

likesfish said:


> the problem is the diffrence between the South and the North are miniscule



ok then, let us take your country over regardless of your peoples wishes . And while we are at it proclaim me king, and accept you are now my subject . And that all my mates now run the place . Miniscule difference afterall .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> They won't, and neither will the Neanderthals on the Unionist side.
> 
> What do any of them hope to achieve? The recent bomb in Belfast is reckoned to have cost local businesses £60k. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25403095)
> 
> ...


_
northern ireland_ isnt a nation , never has been, never will be . Half the people who live there can hardly bring themselves to say the words _Northern Ireland_ . Even some stormont ministers wont say the words publicly . In fact dare not . Its part of a nation , Ireland . And Ireland decided upon independence long ago, we dont need any more referenda .

the logic of your argument is that Scotland can be partitioned if that nation chooses independence providing enough orangemen huddle in  a corner of it.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 21, 2013)

The other half really really want to remain british and back when this was decided the british could enforce it


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## Pickman's model (Dec 21, 2013)

likesfish said:


> The other half really really want to remain british and back when this was decided the british could enforce it


they were so determined to remain british they were prepared to ask the german kaiser to take them in.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 21, 2013)

likesfish said:


> The other half really really want to remain british and back when this was decided the british could enforce it



It wasnt the Irish people who decided to partition Ireland, a colonial government and empire decided that for them .

Until the job of deciding upon and enforcing decisions upon Irish affairs is solely the business of the Irish people youre going to have an IRA . Or indeed a bundle of them . Simple as that .


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 21, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> _northern ireland_ isnt a nation , never has been, never will be . Half the people who live there can hardly bring themselves to say the words _Northern Ireland_ . Even some stormont ministers wont say the words publicly . In fact dare not . Its part of a nation , Ireland . And Ireland decided upon independence long ago, we dont need any more referenda .
> 
> the logic of your argument is that Scotland can be partitioned if that nation chooses independence providing enough orangemen huddle in  a corner of it.



Scotland is 80%+ non-Catholic.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 21, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> It wasnt the Irish people who decided to partition Ireland, a colonial government and empire decided that for them .
> 
> Until the job of deciding upon and enforcing decisions upon Irish affairs is solely the business of the Irish people youre going to have an IRA . Or indeed a bundle of them . Simple as that .



This is basically the view of radical Islam. Their stated aim is a world-wide Caliphate. Their reasoning is much as yours, do you support their aims?


----------



## framed (Dec 21, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> He is permitting himself be used by the media as  voice of republicanism, if he isnt identifying himself as  a republican in the public arena then the onus is on him to clarify his statements. He pointedly does not . And I certainly dont dismiss everything he says as shit . But hes talking shit on this occasion and I feel Ive outlined why he is in a fairly non stalinist manner .



I agree with you that he is talking shit and that in general, these days, he does talk shit... there ye go, is that enough shits for you?   McIntyre has given up the ghost, he is completely demoralised politically and totally isolated on a personal level, part of that is self-inflicted and in part it has been imposed on him by the stalinist leadership of the provisionals.

It wasn't particularly your dismissal of him that I was referring to either btw, read my post again and you'll see where I was really aiming - yer pal with the 'no mates' and 'jihadist' soundbites for the shinners in the pub. I've more respect for McIntyre based on his previous political contribution and commitment to the republican struggle than I have for a lounge bar gobshite who plays to the anti-dissident gallery.

McIntyre's political trajectory is not yet decided but I talk regularly to a close friend of his, who does not share his political views, and apart from his desire to try to earn a crust from his writing and journalism (which I agree has led to him being used by the enemies of republicanism) the fear is that he may now be heading towards total denunciation and political opposition to republican ideology, either mainstream or _dissident. _Imho, I can see McIntyre in the not too distant future playing the same kind of role in Irish and British media circles as those many former stickies who made names for themselves as journalists after they renounced the struggle.

On reading his comments after the last two republican gatherings that he addressed I think the invitations for him to speak at these occasions will start to dry up. There's only so much cynicism and defeatism that people will stand for before they tell him to fuck off.

I've a lot more time for the political analysis of Tommy McKearney than I have for Anthony McIntyre's defeatism and pessimism btw.


----------



## framed (Dec 21, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Scotland is 80%+ non-Catholic.



That doesn't answer the point that CR made... A statistic is not an answer. He referred to the possibility of Scotland's right to independence being held to ransom by the veto of an Orange minority (_not the 80%+ non-Catholic majority_). Unlike your answer, his point was not based on a sectarian headcount.


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## framed (Dec 21, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> This is basically the view of radical Islam. Their stated aim is a world-wide Caliphate. Their reasoning is much as yours, do you support their aims?



You are simply aping the 'anti-extremist' line of the state and deliberately lumping together all who take up arms in any situation as being of the same ilk. 

It must be reassuring/disconcerting (delete as applicable) for LiamO - who refers to anti-GFA republicans as_ 'the jihad' - _to find himself in the same political company as a cunt like you.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 21, 2013)

framed said:


> You are simply aping the 'anti-extremist' line of the state and deliberately lumping together all who take up arms in any situation as being of the same ilk.
> 
> It must be reassuring/disconcerting (delete as applicable) for LiamO - who refers to anti-GFA republicans as_ 'the jihad' - _to find himself in the same political company as a cunt like you.



Ad hominem. Argument lost really.


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## LiamO (Dec 22, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Scotland is 80%+ non-Catholic.



Just as Ireland was 80% non-Unionist in the 1918 General Election?


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## likesfish (Dec 22, 2013)

Its the 21st centuary 30 years of murder achieved very little continuing the campaign isnt going to persuade the unionists they want to be part of a united ireland and the principle of self determination is pretty importamt in eu and international law.


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## Sasaferrato (Dec 22, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Just as Ireland was 80% non-Unionist in the 1918 General Election?



The point I was making, albeit badly, was that although Scotland is 80%+ non-Catholic, there has been no suggestion that things be managed from a Protestant perspective.

It is absolutely unacceptable in any society that regards itself as decent and equitable, for the affairs of that society to be organised along religious lines. The Republican dissidents in Northern Ireland, are in effect, the Taliban of the Roman Catholic Church. The admixture of Republicanism and religion is a major divisive factor in Northern Irish society.

I can appreciate that in times past, there was discrimination against the Catholic part of Northern Irish society, and this discrimination fuelled the Republican cause. It is understandable why this was the case. Now however, this is not the case. It is difficult therefore, to understand why the 'armed struggle' continues, other than the existence of a 'Little Irelander' mentality.

Northern Ireland is part of Great Britain, and will remain so, unless the people of Northern Ireland choose to change things. This could either be the creation of an independent state, or, union with Eire. It is however up to the people of Northern Ireland as a whole to determine this, not a relatively small number of murderous thugs. What happened in the past in Northern Ireland is just that, the past. Whereas lessons can and have been learned from the past, it is the future that matters.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 22, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> The Republican dissidents in Northern Ireland, are in effect, the Taliban of the Roman Catholic Church.



This is complete and absolute nonsense. I have no idea what elements within the catholic church might desire, but I have never seen _any_ evidence that any republican group sees itself as some sort of armed wing of catholicism. 



Sasaferrato said:


> The admixture of Republicanism and religion is a major divisive factor in Northern Irish society.



the _only_ people making this politically illiterate and dishonest assertion are scaremongering Unionists.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 22, 2013)

Right. This post has required some thought, but Sass’s piss-poor rhetoric has forced me to reply.

I have indeed been using the term ‘Jihadi’ (and variations thereof) for 10 years as a perjorative term towards what I consider to be fundamentalist republicans. I have never used it to describe Eirigí or their ilk.

I considered it legitimate because, IME, anyone who differs from them in any way achieves an instant 100% swing on their binary cunt-ometer and instantly becomes a traitor/sell-out/brit agent/coward/bastard etc. This fundamentalist tendency has done them immense harm politically.

That this tendency (great fella to persona non grata in a blink) is mirrored by the Tankie tendency within SF has been very clear for a long time. But there is a substantive difference in it’s application. Whether you agree with it or not, you can see a definite pattern of deliberate thin-slicing (from SF) over the last  20-odd years. Only ever pissing off, to the extent that they actually leave, a very small number of activists at a time

What the republican fundamentalists have consistently done is clumsy thick-slicing - a blunderbuss to SF's scalpel - so that by the time each thin slice left the republican movement they have been so abused by the fundies for sticking it so long, they remain mutually antagonistic.

Anti-GFA republicans (and there are many, many strands) have failed miserably to build any realistic alternative to SF - and in my mind have only their political fundamentalism to blame.

However, I would like to make clear that when I used the term Jihadi’s, I was referring to their _political_ fundamentalism; their binary 100%-in or 100%out attitude; their completely rigid, dogmatic approach; their complete refusal to consider any alternative strategy other than a doomed and ineffective armed campaign.

I have never, _ever_ intended to suggest that traditionalist/militarist/fundamentalist republicans are tied in any way to any sort of catholic, religious fundamentalism. The very idea of this is laughable to anyone who knows any of them - but apparently not to Sass. I understand why Unionists seek to portray them as such, but it is inherently dishonest and the unionist leaders who do so know this full well.

My mistake here has been to use the term(s) in the company of political illiterates like Sass when I would normally only use it in the company of people who understand the distinction.

I will not use that term again on here - unless I need to.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 23, 2013)

framed said:


> I agree with you that he is talking shit and that in general, these days, he does talk shit... there ye go, is that enough shits for you?   McIntyre has given up the ghost, he is completely demoralised politically and totally isolated on a personal level, part of that is self-inflicted and in part it has been imposed on him by the stalinist leadership of the provisionals.
> 
> It wasn't particularly your dismissal of him that I was referring to either btw, read my post again and you'll see where I was really aiming - yer pal with the 'no mates' and 'jihadist' soundbites for the shinners in the pub. I've more respect for McIntyre based on his previous political contribution and commitment to the republican struggle than I have for a lounge bar gobshite who plays to the anti-dissident gallery.
> 
> ...



mate , about 5 years ago there was one/ of these gatherings . McIntyre invited himself to address the subject of the way forward for republicanism , he sat at the top table, self appointed, glass of brandy in hand . He airily informed us republicanism was over .Glass of brandy to hand . Brandy glass....zero  respect for the lads who turned up, some travelled over 40 miles . To listen to him, announcing the death of republicanism . Self appointed

. While swilling brandy

he can fuck right off


----------



## LiamO (Dec 23, 2013)

That's why I called him Anto-no-mates.

He just thinks he is so much cleverer than he is. Yes, he was brave to offer his alternative analysis when he did but as time has gone on he has proved himself to be just one more disapeared-up-his-own-hole talking head for hire. Given where he started from, that would be almost unforgivable, if he wasn't so deluded that all everyone has to do is take heed of his massive (disassociated, elite and cringeworthy) intellect ego.

Btw, where were you tonight? We had a Fleadh Cheoil-style, six and a half hour, Traditional session in Julia's. They will talk about it for years to come.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Right. This post has required some thought, but Sass’s piss-poor rhetoric has forced me to reply.
> 
> I have indeed been using the term ‘Jihadi’ (and variations thereof) for 10 years as a perjorative term towards what I consider to be fundamentalist republicans. I have never used it to describe Eirigí or their ilk.
> 
> ...




liam , your a decent skin , but youve been using that term for a very long tine, and its an abusive term . Ive let it slide because i like you and respect you. But you have absolutely no idea the offence you have caused over ten years to me and others, or the people you have totally fucked off using this term , standing beside you and you never saw it. It has Whoooshed over your head and yove not seen it

mate, its abuse, and its beneath you

because your a good cunt


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> That's why I called him Anto-no-mates.
> 
> He just thinks he is so much cleverer than he is. Yes, he was brave to offer his alternative analysis when he did but as time has gone on he has proved himself to be just one more disapeared-up-his-own-hole talking head for hire. Given where he started from, that would be almost unforgivable, if he wasn't so deluded that all everyone has to do is take heed of his massive (disassociated, elite and cringeworthy) intellect ego.
> 
> Btw, where were you tonight? We had a Fleadh Cheoil-style, six and a half hour, Traditional session in Julia's. They will talk about it for years to come.



poles

well say no more


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 23, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> The point I was making, albeit badly, was that although Scotland is 80%+ non-Catholic, there has been no suggestion that things be managed from a Protestant perspective.
> 
> It is absolutely unacceptable in any society that regards itself as decent and equitable, for the affairs of that society to be organised along religious lines. The Republican dissidents in Northern Ireland, are in effect, the Taliban of the Roman Catholic Church. The admixture of Republicanism and religion is a major divisive factor in Northern Irish society.
> 
> ...



seriously man

i actually respected you as an old soldier

i realise now you actually 100 percent beilieve the shit you were sent here to point your gun at us over

youre an imperalist asshole who has learned nothing whatsover from your life experience , a wanker . For fucks sake im the Ron Burgundy of socialism. Im intelligent enough to know im still learning

you have learned fuck all, and whats\worse you dont even want to

fuck off


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 23, 2013)

framed said:


> I agree with you that he is talking shit and that in general, these days, he does talk shit... there ye go, is that enough shits for you?   McIntyre has given up the ghost, he is completely demoralised politically and totally isolated on a personal level, part of that is self-inflicted and in part it has been imposed on him by the stalinist leadership of the provisionals.
> 
> It wasn't particularly your dismissal of him that I was referring to either btw, read my post again and you'll see where I was really aiming - yer pal with the 'no mates' and 'jihadist' soundbites for the shinners in the pub. I've more respect for McIntyre based on his previous political contribution and commitment to the republican struggle than I have for a lounge bar gobshite who plays to the anti-dissident gallery.
> 
> ...



edit


----------



## revol68 (Dec 23, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> mate , about 5 years ago there was one/ of these gatherings . McIntyre invited himself to address the subject of the way forward for republicanism , he sat at the top table, self appointed, glass of brandy in hand . He airily informed us republicanism was over .Glass of brandy to hand . Brandy glass....zero  respect for the lads who turned up, some travelled over 40 miles . To listen to him, announcing the death of republicanism . Self appointed
> 
> . While swilling brandy
> 
> he can fuck right off



What a bad ass, I rate him even more now.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> That's why I called him Anto-no-mates.
> 
> He just thinks he is so much cleverer than he is. Yes, he was brave to offer his alternative analysis when he did but as time has gone on he has proved himself to be just one more disapeared-up-his-own-hole talking head for hire. Given where he started from, that would be almost unforgivable, if he wasn't so deluded that all everyone has to do is take heed of his massive (disassociated, elite and cringeworthy) intellect ego.
> 
> Btw, where were you tonight? We had a Fleadh Cheoil-style, six and a half hour, Traditional session in Julia's. They will talk about it for years to come.



he's smarter than you chumps.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 23, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> seriously man
> 
> i actually respected you as an old soldier
> 
> ...



It is terribly sad when someone feels that events of centuries ago are still current. They are not. Only a blinkered idiot can hold the view that killing people today is justified, because of something that happened before their great great grandparents were born.

Northern Ireland is part of Britain, that is a fact. Where Northern Ireland goes from here is up to the people, via the democratic process.

I haven't noticed any movement in Northern Ireland demanding a referendum to determine the future. Why is that? Could it be that the majority of people are content with the status quo? The dissident Republican movement clearly does not have the support required to engender change, not even within their own community. There is no mass movement seeking a split from Britain.

The idea that a small number of murderers will change the course of Northern Ireland is absurd. Violence, from wherever, is not the answer.

The people of Northern Ireland will determine its future, via the democratic process.

Your hysterical ad hominem comments are completely absurd. I have no axe to grind whatsoever with regard to Northern Ireland. I have absolutely no 'Imperialist' agenda regarding Northern Ireland, whether it remains part of Britain or not, is in the hands of the people. I absolutely respect the right of the people to decide where they ultimately go. What I do not respect is the right of a tiny minority to try and change the course of Northern Ireland by bombs and bullets; that is not democracy, it is tyranny.

We both want the same thing, the difference between us is that I want to see Northern Ireland flourish; the country has suffered enough; I also want to see the people of Northern Ireland decide their own future, a future determined by the democratic process.

We are about to have a referendum in Scotland. I do not wish to see Scotland leave that UK, but it is the will of the majority which will decide the outcome. There is no reason why Northern Ireland cannot engage in the same process. Violence is not the answer.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 23, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> It is terribly sad when someone feels that events of centuries ago are still current. They are not.



Says the man forever banging on about Remembrance day and respect for those who died in WW1? 

So historical grievances are only legitimate if Sass agrees with them? Tell me Sass, again using your childlike logic, if the Germans had won the war and occupied Britain, just how long would that occupation have to be in place before it became legitimate and the likes of you were calling the English, Scottish and Welsh Resistance "Terrorists living in the past"?


----------



## LiamO (Dec 23, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> .Northern Ireland is part of Britain, that is a fact.



No it is not. Nor has the British State ever even claimed it is. THAT is a fact.

You appear to be merely a more polite version of blood n thunder loyalist.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 23, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> liam , your a decent skin , but youve been using that term for a very long tine, and its an abusive term . Ive let it slide because i like you and respect you. But you have absolutely no idea the offence you have caused over ten years to me and others, or the people you have totally fucked off using this term , standing beside you and you never saw it. It has Whoooshed over your head and yove not seen it
> 
> mate, its abuse, and its beneath you
> 
> because your a good cunt



Perhaps you might take a look at some of your own terminology then old chap?

You have consistently called me many things (Gerry's/Martin's/SFs cheerlader etc) many times on here - even though you know that cap does not fit from 1000 real-life conversations.

I remember well the absolute outrage you expressed over a beer when Martin McGuinness used the 'Traitors' word after the a particular armed action (admittedly this was a step too far for probably the majority of Republicans whatever their view of the 'Peace project').

I responded with an abridged (but nonetheless lengthy) list of all the insults you had used to describe him over the preceding few years and enquired whether your 'outrage' at him finally snapping and using some less than diplomatic language was not a tad OTT.

In real life, in real time, in the football club... you smiled sheepishly, shrugged 'maybe' and supped your beer. You tend to react differently on here.

But I still love you - for a J.... J... Jedward fan.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Similar things _have_ been investigated by the HET (Historical Enquiries Team - a team of experienced, english, police officers who are hardly biased towards Republicans). There reports are in the public domain and form much of the evidential basis of the recent book 'Lethal Allies' (By Anne Cadwallader, whose father, brother and sister all served in the british army).
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lethal-Allies-British-Collusion-Ireland/dp/1781171882/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387301287&sr=8-1&keywords=lethal allies anne cadwallader
> 
> ...



The book arrived today. So far I've read the first 115 pages.

Interesting. I must admit, the seriously pro-Republican slant took a bit of getting used to. The author has difficulty in remaining factual, and the, frankly biased, sub-commentary initially makes it difficult to read. However, I'm not reading it to critique the prose style. (Once you get used to the style, it is easier to read, with regard to the mechanics of reading.)

It beggars belief that the RUC were permitted to proceed in the manner that they did. Killing after killing, followed by perfunctory investigation, or indeed no investigation at all. Suspects named by eye-witnesses, or identified by photo-fit, not questioned. Alibis not explored. Members of the UDR concomitantly being permitted to be members of the UDA, indeed, it seems being encouraged to be members, is beyond belief.

Having read thus far, it is clear that:

a. British governments of both stripes sought to placate the Protestant terrorists.

b. The involvement of the RUC and the UDR in the arming of Protestant terrorists is indisputable.

c. The failure of the RUC to adequately investigate what were patently Protestant terrorist murders is not 'inexplicable', it is collusion.

d. To this point*, there is no evidence of either British government, or regular army involvement in colluding with the Protestant terrorists, other than in a 'laissez faire' manner.

You are right, it is not comfortable reading. The way that the book is structured means that what I've read so far is in the nature of a preamble, I am not looking forward to the rest of it


*I still have circa 250 pages to read.

More later.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> No it is not. Nor has the British State ever even claimed it is. THAT is a fact.
> 
> You appear to be merely a more polite version of blood n thunder loyalist.



No axe to grind whatsoever. It is a matter of supreme indifference to me what the future holds for Northern Ireland. The only thing that I am sure of, is that not another drop of soldiers' blood should be shed there. It is up to the people of Northern Ireland to sort out this internecine conflict. That of course decrees that common sense and compromise must break out. I'm not holding my breath.

I have no 'side' in this. Murderous thugs are just that, and should be tried and imprisoned, whichever side they are on. I have no time whatsoever for the Loyalists, either in Northern Ireland or in Scotland. Their ethos is hatred based on religion; they describe themselves as Christian, yet don't appear to be au fait with the teachings of Christ. I have never even seen an Orange Walk (other than on the TV news), never mind participated in one.

Apologies if I have upset your sensibilities. The nation is described as Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This would indicate to me that Northern Ireland is included under the umbrella of 'Britain'. No offence is meant, I tend to use UK, Britain, GB and GB & NI interchangeably, because I don't regard it as terribly important, people know what you mean. If my descriptors annoy you at times, sorry.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 23, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> Members of the *UDF* concomitantly being permitted to be members of the UDA, indeed, it seems being encouraged to be members, is beyond belief.
> 
> b. The involvement of the RUC and the *UDF* in the arming of Protestant terrorists is indisputable.



UDR, ffs, UDR

Ulster defence REGIMENT... the largest regiment in the British Army I believe.

Wait til you get to the one about the bombing & shooting attack on a pub in Keady... carried out entirely by four serving policemen.... including the local station Sergeant... planned, prepared and carried out from a farm (owned I believe by another member of the UDR)... which was at the time subject to covert surveillance by the SAS... which was called off _just before_ the attack...

.... and then how when individuals were eventually brought to trial the Prosecution neglected to mention that they were _at the time of the attack _serving police officers.... and in fact only 'resigned' from the RUC on the morning of their arrests


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Right. This post has required some thought, but Sass’s piss-poor rhetoric has forced me to reply.
> 
> I have indeed been using the term ‘Jihadi’ (and variations thereof) for 10 years as a perjorative term towards what I consider to be fundamentalist republicans. I have never used it to describe Eirigí or their ilk.
> 
> ...



Many Protestants in the ranks of the Republican gunmen? About as many as the number of Catholics, in the group of halfwits who make a fucking nuisance of themselves at Drumcree every year, I would have thought.

The 'war' in Northern Ireland has been conducted on nominally religious grounds for decades, nominal Protestants on one side, nominal Catholics on the other. The Catholic Church's stance towards Republicanism has always been somewhat ambivalent, pictures of Priests conducting services with gloves and beret on the coffin, and firing parties discharging over the grave, doesn't exactly give the impression of an institution that is divorced from the ethos of their recently deceased parishioner. Ditto for the Protestants of course, neither side of the clergy come out of it with much honour. There have been notable exceptions to this of course, almost wholly from the Catholic side of the house. Priests appear to have more common humanity that ministers.

It really doesn't matter who the actual combatants are, PIRA, IRA, Real IRA, UDA, UFF, UVF etc, the political ethos of concurrent of succeeding groups may vary a bit, but the underlying ethos is the same. Protestants on one side, Catholics on the other. Both willing to use brutality and murder to further their cause.

The description of these people as 'jihadi's' is accurate, and can be applied to both sides. I can assure you that I am not 'politically illiterate'. It really doesn't matter whether one can outline the history and political differences of the various groups; indeed, on the Republican side you would need a spreadsheet to keep track of them; what matters is their ethos. The groupings and the names may have changed, the ethos, unfortunately, has not. An upsurge in Republican thuggery can drive Northern Ireland backwards, to the detriment of all its people. Is that what people want? I suspect that the vast majority of the people have had more had more than enough of bombings and shootings. What will happen now? An upsurge in Protestant violence? A move back to twenty years ago?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> UDR, ffs, UDR
> 
> Ulster defence REGIMENT... the largest regiment in the British Army I believe.
> 
> ...



TLAs, don't you just love them? 

I did note that in one case, the accused resigned from the UDR on the day of his arrest, and in another case, membership of the UDR was omitted from the evidence given in court.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 23, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Perhaps you might take a look at some of your own terminology then old chap?
> 
> You have consistently called me many things (Gerry's/Martin's/SFs cheerlader etc) many times on here - even though you know that cap does not fit from 1000 real-life conversations.
> 
> ...



dont mind me, i  was drunk


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 23, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25501819


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## LiamO (Dec 23, 2013)

tbh I'm more concerned about the 18-year old child we have both watched growing up who will be spending her Christmas banged up.


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## LiamO (Dec 24, 2013)

revol68 said:


> he's smarter than you chumps.



that's just Revol-speak for 'he finally said something I agree with'.

Happy christmas to you and all your mates at Camp Twaddell... civil rights for all!


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 24, 2013)

Sasaferrato said:


> It is terribly sad when someone feels that events of centuries ago are still current. They are not. Only a blinkered idiot can hold the view that killing people today is justified, because of something that happened before their great great grandparents were born.
> 
> Northern Ireland is part of Britain, that is a fact. Where Northern Ireland goes from here is up to the people, via the democratic process.
> 
> ...




as i said, i was drunk , dont mind me .


----------



## revol68 (Dec 24, 2013)

LiamO said:


> that's just Revol-speak for 'he finally said something I agree with'.
> 
> Happy christmas to you and all your mates at Camp Twaddell... civil rights for all!



they're another set of fuckwits who can't get over their pathetic national identity.

I've like McIntyre for quite a while, even when I disagree with him I respect his honesty and the fact he follows the logic of his ideas. He's a much better thinker than McKearny (even if McKearny's turn to socialism is closer to my own politics) because he rejects the notion of the Provos as a sort of armed wing of the civil rights, something McKearny embraces.


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## LiamO (Dec 24, 2013)

revol68 said:


> I've like McIntyre for quite a while... He's a much better thinker than McKearny... because he rejects the notion of the Provos as a sort of armed wing of the civil rights, something McKearny embraces.





LiamO said:


> that's just Revol-speak for 'he finally said something I agree with'.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 24, 2013)

or cos he's more honest.

Me and Casually hardly see eye to eye on anything but we can both agree that this revisionism that the Provo's were essentially just an armed extension of the civil rights movement and their campaign was one for catholic equality within N.Ireland is bollocks.


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## N_igma (Dec 24, 2013)

revol68 said:


> or cos he's more honest.
> 
> Me and Casually hardly see eye to eye on anything but we can both agree that this revisionism that the Provo's were essentially just an armed extension of the civil rights movement and their campaign was one for catholic equality within N.Ireland is bollocks.



Who actually claims this though? Not any Republican I know or have read.

Defenders of certain Catholic communities in the early days of The Troubles yes but an armed extension of the Civil Rights movement no.


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## LiamO (Dec 24, 2013)

revol68 said:


> or cos he's more honest.
> 
> Me and Casually hardly see eye to eye on anything but we can both agree that this revisionism that the Provo's were essentially just an armed extension of the civil rights movement and their campaign was one for catholic equality within N.Ireland is bollocks.



would you care to reference anywhere this is being argued in those terms - by anybody


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## Casually Red (Dec 24, 2013)

N_igma said:


> Who actually claims this though? Not any Republican I know or have read.
> 
> Defenders of certain Catholic communities in the early days of The Troubles yes but an armed extension of the Civil Rights movement no.



well i think this is the one of the rare occasions Revol might be right about something . Since the advent of Hume Adams in particular , which we still arent allowed to read, there has been a mountain of revisionism emanating from various Connolly House spokespersons pointing to _the smashing of the orange state_ for example, and portraying the updating of British rule as some sort of vindication for their armed struggle. When the simple truth is the British state largely dismantled the orange state in the early 70s when it dissolved its parliament and B Specials, even disarming the RUC at one point, and taking away most of the local government powers which were used to enforce housing discrimination and gerrymandering .
The thrust of the provo campaign was about ensuring the state could never be reformed , that colnial rule could never be normalised and as long as the British state claimed sovereignty over the national territory they were going to need a heavily armed garrison to oversee their occupation. A tactic which emphasised it was an occupationbecause there were thousands of armed troops running about in full view of the world.
Thats went completely out the window and now the shinners argue the thing completely back to front.

But ultimately what pisses me off most about McIntyre and McKearney is not their beliefs or what they say. Theyre both completely entitled to arrive at their respective personal conclusions. But the fact is they are purely personal conclusions, they represent *absolutely nobody *only themselves.

Its instead the fact that since this whole schism within republicanism has become a lot more open theyve both constantly permitted the British and Irish media, the nature and agenda  of which they know very well, to use them as the designated spokespersons for the sections of the republican base who oppose it .  When neither of them represent anyone or are remotely accountable to anyone . 

They know full well republican groups have designated PROs and spokespersons and their own analyses. They also know the fact the state hates the notion of _oxygen of publicity_, and want those structures bypassed and the political groups to remain as voiceless as possible. So for a very long time both have been the medias favoured _go to guys_ . The media  can claim they are being fair and arent censoring people by pointing to the fact theyve interviewed these guys as a counterbalance to the sinn fein line. And for well over a decade now that has been the Standard Operating Procedure of the media. Theyve fully allowed themselves to be used as a means of censorship, instead of telling the media if they want to know what these people are thinking go and bloody ask them. They know who the PROs are .
McIntryes blog and the like are his own affair, hes fully entitled to play a role in discourse . But hes most definitely not entitled to speak on anyones behalf or being seen to do so. Sadly some peoples own personal profiles seem to have taken precedence over the need to combat censorship and demonisation.

And on this issue in particular hes talking a load of hysterical overemotional rubbish that has no basis in logic . And he can do that because hes absolutely unaccountable to any section of republicanism or the Irish people.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 24, 2013)

a few years a go at the Dublin Anarchist Bookfair McKearny's justification for the armed struggle was pretty much "cause of discrimination against catholics in jobs".

Now obviously anyone with wit knows that sectarian discrimination provided the tinder for the Provos, as did the brutal response to the Civil Rights protests and general Unionist intransigence but as someone who was an active and ideologically commited Provo I'd have thought such a response inadequate for the simple fact the Provos had only contempt for those who sought to address those issues within the Northern polity and indeed their campaign was aimed at stopping any such normalisation.

Now speaking on a historical level, even if the provo's campaign was inevitable and reform could only be carried after going through it, it doesn't change the subjective positions of the participants at the time or the subsequent dissonance as they now embrace a reformed Northern state.


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## Casually Red (Dec 24, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Now speaking on a historical level, even if the provo's campaign was inevitable and reform could only be carried after going through it, it doesn't change the subjective positions of the participants at the time or the subsequent dissonance as they now embrace a reformed Northern state.



poster boy for reconciliation Pat Magee has been the most candid so far in stating the standard republican ideological position, even when buttressed from the socialist perspective, wasnt what _they_ were fighting for at all. And when he says _they_ Im assuming it means the particular clique of thinkers within sinn fein clustered round Gerry Adams who brought the shinners were they are today ideologically. That is completely bereft of any ideological principles and only interested in the naked persuit of power. 

Magee stated bluntly the talk of fighting for a united Ireland was just rhetoric. It was really about using armed force as a statement of power and a means to a political end within a 6 county context. To empower the catholic community within the 6 counties. And more importantly those who sought to lead them. Thats what played out when Tony Blair seamlessly and shamelessly transferred westminster patronage away from the long time poodles in the SDLP and firmly behind  the new poodles in Sinn Fein, despite the SDLP at the time being the biggest nationalist party in the north . It was candidly admitted it was simply because the shinners had the guns and the SDLP did not. And that was the equation at work for certain people. 

Its absolutely sickening to read and to think about imho . That cannot be justified as its a basic act of criminality . That is not a national liberation struggle or anything approaching one , its basic political extortion, political gangsterism. And an act of criminal fraud.


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## revol68 (Dec 24, 2013)

Sound a bit unionist there yourself Red...


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## Casually Red (Dec 24, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Sound a bit unionist there yourself Red...




well not really because they pioneered the strategy themselves. Leading Padraig Pearse to observe if theres one thing more ridiculous than a unionist with a gun its a republican without one.

But for me its a central issue. The entire ideological basis of the republican position has always been an Irish legitimacy versus an imperialist crime. An Irish truth versus an imperialist lie. Irish democracy versus an imperialist veto over Irish democracy. Thats were the entire llegitmacy of the position, the national position, derives from .

In my view anyone who was taking up arms or sending people out to kill other people for any other purpose than national liberation  was simply acting in a criminal manner. If it wasnt about national liberation then it was just about access for an elite few to the ranks of the local bourgouisie within the apparatus of the system, which needed a bit of tinkering with. That was just an act of gangsterism in my view. It had no legitimacy at all, regardless of any discrimination that might have existed. There were other methods available to address that.

This bunch of shits shouldnt ever be allowed to get away with that as far as Im concerned. If their analysis and revisionism isnt politically routed and dumped in histories dustbin then Irish republicanism will be criminalised by history and imperialism vindicated.

I believe the current and ongoing growth and sometimes merger of various strands of republicanism is down to a realisation of that. McIntyre , while correct in some parts of his analysis, seems to have appropriated for himself the job of guardian of the _holy grail_. And his belief in his self appointed spokespersons role seems to stem from that. His phd and expertise derives from his study of the past, not his role in the present. If the best he can manage is to denounce people as mentally ill then his position veers towards the same bankruptcy as Martin McGuinness condemnations.


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## Casually Red (Jan 4, 2014)

absolute classic bit of BBC political media management today .

Some bright spark had the absolutely spiffing idea to stick up a massive advertising billboard this morning at the entrance to the Brandywell, not far from the Bogside and just a few days before the annual bloody sunday commemoration, almost right outside the door of a sister of one of the Bloody Sunday victims, a dirty great recruiting advertisement for the British armed forces . Complete with someone in camo battledress and helmet kindly helping some injured unfortunate .

unbelievable .

Anyways, heres how the BBC and UTV reported it . Basically that there were some complaints to the SDLP, and that after they raised the issue as a bit insensitive, it was taken down .
_The poster has since been taken down and the SDLP said this was done responsibly and quickly._

_http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25586694_


now after youve read that state sanctioned crock of dung you can read in the local Derry Journal what actually occurred

_http://www.derryjournal.com/news/po...recruitment-billboard-at-foyle-road-1-5783419_



you may note the 2 accounts are remarkably different . And then perhaps ponder what Ive said above about a blanket media blackout.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 4, 2014)

What actually happened was the MoD chucked an advertising firm enough cash for 50 posters across norther ireland so they went up at the next empty ad space though nobody going hang on this possibly isnt a good idea.
 Either non locals actually doing the bill postering .
   Or a prod actually doing the postering and sniggering the entire time
	  Well as the 32csm doesnt want to play nice fuck em


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 4, 2014)

revol68 said:


> or cos he's more honest.
> 
> Me and Casually hardly see eye to eye on anything but we can both agree that this revisionism that the Provo's were essentially just an armed extension of the civil rights movement and their campaign was one for catholic equality within N.Ireland is bollocks.





N_igma said:


> Who actually claims this though? Not any Republican I know or have read.
> 
> Defenders of certain Catholic communities in the early days of The Troubles yes but an armed extension of the Civil Rights movement no.



Has anyone ever come across any detailed accounts of the Catholic Ex-Servicemens' Association? As far as I know, they did exactly what it said on  the tin, and were directly (and exclusively? note question mark) concerned with community defence.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 4, 2014)

revol68 said:


> a few years a go at the Dublin Anarchist Bookfair McKearny's justification for the armed struggle was pretty much "cause of discrimination against catholics in jobs".
> 
> Now obviously anyone with wit knows that sectarian discrimination provided the tinder for the Provos, as did the brutal response to the Civil Rights protests and general Unionist intransigence but as someone who was an active and ideologically commited Provo I'd have thought such a response inadequate for the simple fact the Provos had only contempt for those who sought to address those issues within the Northern polity and indeed their campaign was aimed at stopping any such normalisation.
> 
> Now speaking on a historical level, even if the provo's campaign was inevitable and reform could only be carried after going through it, it doesn't change the subjective positions of the participants at the time or the subsequent dissonance as they now embrace a reformed Northern state.



I found out a few years ago that my granny from Stranmillis had stones thrown at her as a wee girl by persons of the loyal persuasion. She never had any truck with violent republicanism, though. So it is more complicated than "wax goes on, wax goes off".


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## Casually Red (Jan 4, 2014)

likesfish said:


> What actually happened was the MoD chucked an advertising firm enough cash for 50 posters across norther ireland so they went up at the next empty ad space though nobody going hang on this possibly isnt a good idea.
> Either non locals actually doing the bill postering .
> Or a prod actually doing the postering and sniggering the entire time
> Well as the 32csm doesnt want to play nice fuck em




im not concerned with the actual poster , if they want to waste money on something thats going to be in 50 pieces an hour after it goes up thats up to them. What I was highlighting was the completely misleading media coverage of what happened *after* it went up . Which feeds into what I was saying earlier about McIntyre allowing himself to be used in the same media censorship and disinformation game .


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## Casually Red (May 14, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> Fucking hell, just up the road. It's all gone a bit Love/Hate again.



And again, another prime mover in the assassination of Alan Ryan was finally caught up with the other week . Christopher Zambra, one of the animals at the very top of the Dublin gangland tree . Hemmed in by 2 cars that came out of nowhere, about 3 shooters involved . Unmistakable message that one .


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## framed (May 14, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> And again, another prime mover in the assassination of Alan Ryan was finally caught up with the other week . Christopher Zambra, one of the animals at the very top of the Dublin gangland tree . Hemmed in by 2 cars that came out of nowhere, about 3 shooters involved . Unmistakable message that one .





The Struggle Continues...


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## Casually Red (May 14, 2014)

great input, keep it up


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## framed (May 15, 2014)

Army of one...


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## Pickman's model (May 15, 2014)

framed said:


> Army of one...


http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2014/02/update-on-one-man-vs-the-world.html


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## Casually Red (May 16, 2014)

framed said:


> Army of one...



















yeah...keep sipping the beards kool aid...remember dude..its micro groups..the dark fringes...*army of one*


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## Casually Red (May 16, 2014)

framed said:


> Army of one...


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## Casually Red (May 16, 2014)

framed said:


> Army of one...





















look, plainly youre miffed at the prospect of the great leader of sinn fein  being disrespected on another thread . So miffed in fact you posted a load of false nonsense attacking _the dissidents_ that had absolutely no basis in fact . And I had the affrontery to point out how and why your ridiculous accusation against the_ dissidents_ was a complete fiction .

So for reasons best known to yourself you decided to retaliate against that online criticism  by engaging in open  mockery of a justified reprisal against a very dangerous and powerful Dublin gangster who was engaged in putting bounties on republican activists heads, resulting in the death of an activist . A subject you obviously find amusing and an occasion for mockery and  rolleyes  but I dont in the slightest .

For example, if one of your activist comrades in Glasgow....god forbid even a personal freind of yours for ten years ..... confronted extremely vicious and violent multi millionaire gangsters terrorising his working class district  and ended up with a bounty on his head and then slaughtered, I wouldnt find that remotely  amusing . If it transpired later that retribution  was exacted on the assassins my response to that certainly wouldnt be sarcasm  and mockery , it would be congratulatory...not that i was fishing for congratulations but  mockery from certain quarters is a bit astounding . Im actually taken aback by that mentality  . But maybe thats just me and my old fashioned republican values. Plainly Je Reillys correct and Im an anachronism...at best

But  rather than copping yourself on and refraining from your original mockery youve decided to go further and repeat the great leaders spin of his opponents being a small unrepresentative cabal of _micro groups_. And having a chuckle about a situation were an activist from an *army of one*  was murdered.

I think that series of random photos has illustrated just how far youre out of step with the reality of modern Irish republicanism on the ground and in thrall to the shinners take on things  . But never mind me, carry on with the mockery and the sinn fein spin . Keep drinking the beards kool aid and knock yourself out .

Ill remember that one for sure ..*army of one* and mockery by rolleyes at an activists murder ...keep up the insightful input . Its informative , incisive input and  well appreciated .


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## framed (May 16, 2014)

You strike me as an individual full of pent up anger and rage. The evidence is in the way that you respond to alternative arguments and criticism here (by 'here' I mean Urban in general, not only this thread). That's why I 'mock' _your_ posts and your apparently blind allegiance to republican militarism.

Anyone who posts anything that even slightly questions your perspective on Ireland is decried and labelled a Shinner or an Adams' groupie.

From the above 'random' pictures that you posted I can only conclude that you are either a supporter or a member of the 32 CSM, or do you simply offer support to any organisation that opposes SF?

Your 'common enemy' appears to be Sinn Fein and you will make common cause with just about anyone in that pursuit, whereas I see the 'common enemy' as the British government. What's the point in concentrating most of the fire on the Shinners?

But please, carry on if you must... 



*E2A:* Incidentally. those incidents that you seem to dwell upon as evidence of the struggle's relentless continuation - i.e. Teenage rioters telling former IRA men to "fuck off", the paint-bombing of a Gerry Adams Mural, and even the execution of a drug dealer allegedly involved in the murder of a republican, is not evidence of the forward momentum of republican ideals. Instead it represents the isolation and ghettoisation of a particular strand of militarist republicanism as represented by the thinking of one sect within it... imho.


*E2A again* (_also posted on the Gerry Adams thread_): This is part of a debate from a forum hosted by the Dublin 1916 Society. When I first watched this I was critical of independent Councillor Ciaran Perry's contribution, which mainly addressed the failings of republicanism without contrasting it with more examples of his own organisation's successful campaigns in North Dublin. However, in light of some of the posts here, I'd revise my opinion and say that he was spot-on to address the concerns of working class people about republican organisations currently operating in the city and "the elephant in the room", which he describes as "criminality masquerading as republicanism."


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## Idris2002 (May 21, 2014)

I'll just leave this here.


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## Casually Red (Aug 9, 2015)

It's kicked off today in Belfast after the anti internment parade was banned from the city centre . Seems its back to the days of ghetto confinement . Trouble in aerodyne , water cannon and the rest .


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## Red About Town (Feb 29, 2016)

I read the brother of Alan Ryan, was shot in Dublin today.


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 29, 2016)

Here y'go:

Brother of murdered Real IRA crime boss Alan Ryan 'critical' after shooting - Independent.ie


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## Casually Red (Mar 1, 2016)

He died a few hours ago


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## Dowie (Mar 1, 2016)

so are they basically just gangsters running protection rackets these days?


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## Casually Red (Mar 1, 2016)

Fuck off twat


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## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2016)

Dowie said:


> so are they basically just gangsters running protection rackets these days?


you're basically a clueless bore these days


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## Dowie (Mar 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> you're basically a clueless bore these days



You're welcome to enlighten me but reading that they're involved in shaking down drug dealers and business owners would make it seem like their main activity now is essentially attempting to run a protection racket. Maybe I'm missing all the stories where they've been successfully taking on the security forces up north etc... but this recent story seems to be a gangster getting shot by some disgruntled drug dealers and a few years ago it was the same story with his brother.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2016)

Dowie said:


> You're welcome to enlighten me but reading that they're involved in shaking down drug dealers and business owners would make it seem like their main activity now is essentially attempting to run a protection racket. Maybe I'm missing all the stories where they've been successfully taking on the security forces up north etc... but this recent story seems to be a gangster getting shot by some disgruntled drug dealers and a few years ago it was the same story with his brother.


out of curiosity, how do you think republican activity is funded? i don't think it's always been wholly or even mainly funded by contributions from the faithful.


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## Dowie (Mar 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> out of curiosity, how do you think republican activity is funded? i don't think it's always been wholly or even mainly funded by contributions from the faithful.



No it most likely isn't, but there doesn't seem to be much Republican activity yet the unintended results of the funding attempts seem to still make the news. When members are more likely to be killed by drug dealers or by each other than by the security forces they're supposedly aiming to fight then it seems like a complete farce.


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 1, 2016)

Dowie said:


> You're welcome to enlighten me but reading that they're involved in shaking down drug dealers and business owners would make it seem like their main activity now is essentially attempting to run a protection racket. Maybe I'm missing all the stories where they've been successfully taking on the security forces up north etc... but this recent story seems to be a gangster getting shot by some disgruntled drug dealers and a few years ago it was the same story with his brother.




You believe everything you read in the papers then ? 

Fuck up twat


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## Dowie (Mar 1, 2016)

you seem angry, like I said you're welcome to enlighten me on the heroic actions they're currently undertaking up north as part of the struggle for which they've got so much popular support... oh wait a minute, nope. They're just a bunch of twats running protection rackets and getting themselves shot in the process, muppet. If you're a supporter of that then you're the real twat here.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2016)

Dowie said:


> No it most likely isn't, but there doesn't seem to be much Republican activity yet the unintended results of the funding attempts seem to still make the news. When members are more likely to be killed by drug dealers or by each other than by the security forces they're supposedly aiming to fight then it seems like a complete farce.


from which sources do you glean the information from which you conclude there's not much republican activity going on?


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## likesfish (Mar 2, 2016)

Thing is the armed struggle failed it never really stood much of a chance the "plan" was never going to work.
  Although the British and loyalists gave it plenty of support through their actions deliberatly or not it never had a hope form the start.
   Trying mark two with less people less guns and less support yeah thats not going anywhere.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2016)

likesfish said:


> Thing is the armed struggle failed it never really stood much of a chance the "plan" was never going to work.


before:





after:




*obviously* the armed struggle played no part in the departure of the red from about 3/4 of ireland


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## likesfish (Mar 2, 2016)

But the last 1/4 is proving particularly tricky its not like we want it anymore either


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## LeslieB (Mar 2, 2016)

likesfish said:


> But the last 1/4 is proving particularly tricky its not like we want it anymore either



The elephant in the room, though, is that it is *far* from clear that the majority of NI Catholics want a united Ireland either.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> The elephant in the room, though, is that it is *far* from clear that the majority of NI Catholics want a united Ireland either.


what do you find so confusing about it?


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## LeslieB (Mar 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> what do you find so confusing about it?


 
I don't know. Actually this is probably a subject I'm best avoiding. I have enough trouble keeping up with British politics, never mind NI.

As you were.


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## Dowie (Mar 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> from which sources do you glean the information from which you conclude there's not much republican activity going on?



you're free point out what this armed group has been doing that costs so much they need to run protection rackets and shake down drug dealers... I mean if I'm incorrect that the recent casualties for these brave fighters seem to have come from infighting among themselves and from being shot by drug dealers rather than any interaction with security forces up north then please do highlight some of their recent successes in their armed struggle (that most people don't seem to actually want)


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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2016)

Dowie said:


> you're free point out what this armed group has been doing that costs so much they need to run protection rackets and shake down drug dealers... I mean if I'm incorrect that the recent casualties for these brave fighters seem to have come from infighting among themselves and from being shot by drug dealers rather than any interaction with security forces up north then please do highlight some of their recent successes in their armed struggle (that most people don't seem to actually want)


so, to cut to the chase, unless they're killing people in the six counties then for you they're not republicans.


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## Dowie (Mar 2, 2016)

nope that isn't what I've said


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 2, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> You believe everything you read in the papers then ?
> 
> Fuck up twat



Got an alternative?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2016)

Dowie said:


> nope that isn't what I've said


it seems to me that what you mean by 'republican activity' is the armed struggle. have i misunderstood you?


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## Dowie (Mar 2, 2016)

No you're correct there - I'm talking about the lack of armed struggle from a group that is supposed to be involved in armed struggle and isn't currently part of any ceasefire arrangements, yet the recent casualties from this armed struggle are people being shot by drug dealers in Dublin and people being shot due to infighting among themselves. It seems they're more just a bunch of gangsters these days. Maybe I'm missing all the armed struggle incidents that require all these funds from shaking down drug dealers etc... it seems, in the past couple of years, they had an unsuccessful letter bombing campaign and tried to blowup a police landrover and that is about it.


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## Casually Red (Mar 2, 2016)

I'm personally much too angry at present to contribute to this thread or engage with any lowlife vultures and shite talkers smirking over this murder and repeating garbage from the establishment media spinning Garda special branch rumours...that's the outfit who have actually been taxing drug dealers and in cahoots with them for decades now .

I'll just post this tribute from tony Ohara , brother of hunger striker patsy Ohara who knew the 2 brothers well .

Vinnie Ryan - Republican Freedom Fighter		 :		  The Pensive Quill


----------



## Dowie (Mar 2, 2016)

right so this idiot had nothing at all to do with drug dealers, just got shot at random? He's a low life vulture tbh.. and so are cunts like you who support them


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 2, 2016)

Think I'll just put this lowlife turd on ignore for a bit rather than give him the oxygen he's craving


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Mar 2, 2016)

Dowie said:


> right so this idiot had nothing at all to do with drug dealers, just got shot at random? He's a low life vulture tbh.. and so are cunts like you who support them



Why do you entirely discount the article CR linked to? What is your evidence for doing so?

For the record I do not know the ins and outs of the brothers' deaths, but there is enough evidence of past misrepresentation of Irish Republicanism to leave room for questioning/doubt; room that you seem unable to accept could possibly exist.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Think I'll just put this lowlife turd on ignore for a bit rather than give him the oxygen he's craving


you can tell a lot about a man named after someone most famous for scoring an own goal


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 2, 2016)

Dowie said:


> right so this idiot had nothing at all to do with drug dealers, just got shot at random? He's a low life vulture tbh.. and so are cunts like you who support them



He was shot outside my friend's house. My friend reckoned he was fairly straight up and a good neighbour who didn't seem to be involved in any funny business.

So one possibility is that he was just killed because he was someone's brother.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 2, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> The elephant in the room, though, is that it is *far* from clear that the majority of NI Catholics want a united Ireland either.



tbf a lot of southern irish want a united ireland they just want to be very picky about what northers they take


----------



## cantsin (Mar 2, 2016)

Dowie said:


> nope that isn't what I've said



its sounds a lot like that


----------



## 8den (Mar 2, 2016)

I find it amusing that CR's epilogue states that Ryan could not have been profiting from drugs as he was a teetotaller. Plenty of drug lords have been teetotal themselves. 

Seeing as CR will condemn any newspaper article citing  Ryan or the RIRA profit from the distribution of drugs as "Free State/Brit" Propaganda this likely to be a pretty futile argument. We don't know for sure if the RIRA do profit from taxing drug dealers as it would be an incredibly difficult thing to prove. Lots of people suspect it, but, very few, if any, IRA men have ever been charges with distribution. Forbes does put the RIRA's worth at around £50m a year and puts that mainly down to Smuggling.


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 2, 2016)

It's not my epilogue it's tony O'Haras . Nor is it an epilogue . Such things are referred to by people as a eulogy .

I've little doubt you find this murder amusing though . And as someone who's stood in all kinds of elements for years rattling a bucket raising funds for the welfare of their prisoners dependents , and knowing first hand how financially dire that particular situation often is, that Forbes Israel claim strikes me as a complete and utter load of bollocks . Just like the rest of it .

Thanks to the efforts of Gerry Adams friend and long time legal representative Barra McGrory..now the DPP..surveillance recordings have for a number of years now been used as evidence in court against a number of people including those purported to be IRA leaders . Not one mention has ever been made of taxing drug dealers much less drug distribution. Much less all these tens of millions Forbes  Israel claims is their income. Rest assured had any of that surveillance captured any such discussion it would be front and centre . Years on end of surveillance of numerous targets  , not one mention of it . Ever . It's bollocks .


----------



## 8den (Mar 2, 2016)

You're equating surveillance with "24/7 access and the ability to know what every conversation every RIRA member had with anyone is about at all times". If Ryan had been under such level of surveillance he wouldn't have been murdered nor would he have been able to do something that drew the wraith of the people who killed him. 

I don't find the murder of anyone amusing, or funny. Even someone involved in a terrorist organisation. And I'm concerned that Ryan's killers have never been brought to justice.


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 3, 2016)

You're waffling on about stuff you have no comprehension in the slightest of. You've even cited a report by Forbes Israel as worthy of note so I'll just leave you there .

I'm not dignifying this inane level of shit any further . Award yourself whatever level of Internet " win " you see fit .


As regards any sensible posters out there who want an actually informed point of view, here's today's interview on RTE radios flagship Liveline programme, with long time Dublin  left wing activist and solicitor Malachy Steenson . Steenson has known the Ryan family for many years, and is himself sadly no stranger to the devastation drug dealers have wrought on working class communities in Dublin .

Rte presenter Joe Duffy has virtual kittens at Steensons responses to him. But Steenson does a pretty good job in confronting a lot of this media rubbish and Garda misinformation . Around 8 mins long .

http://cdn.rasset.ie/manifest/audio...yan_c20944727_20944729_261_drm_/manifest.m3u8

Solicitor causes outrage by claiming that communities should have the right to use violence to protect them against drug dealers - Independent.ie


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 3, 2016)

Interview on Irish media from a few years back with one of the men standing beside Alan Ryan when he was murdered . Worth a listen .


----------



## fiannanahalba (Mar 3, 2016)

Paul Stewart is thoroughly discredited these days.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 3, 2016)

fiannanahalba said:


> Paul Stewart is thoroughly discredited these days.


In what way?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Mar 3, 2016)

He and others are no longer Republicans. They left the stage but not of their own volition.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 3, 2016)

fiannanahalba said:


> He and others are no longer Republicans. They left the stage but not of their own volition.


To those of us not already wholly familiar with the state of play, this is hardly any clearer!


----------



## fiannanahalba (Mar 3, 2016)

There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.


----------



## 8den (Mar 3, 2016)

fiannanahalba said:


> There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.



Their uncles murdered their da's and married their 'ma's? 

I do like how CR cites a solicitor qualified in the UK & Irl again if someone posted a link from a someone who disagreed with CR on the situation with the same qualification CR would just laugh.


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 3, 2016)

Fuck off 8den, you and your creeps obsession . Steensons relevant qualification is he knows the people and the situation at hand . Unlike yourself who's reliant on the evening herald , the Garda press office and Forbes Israel . And your own imagination. 

Now fuck off .


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 3, 2016)

8den said:


> Their uncles murdered their da's and married their 'ma's?
> 
> I do like how CR cites a solicitor qualified in the UK & Irl again if someone posted a link from a someone who disagreed with CR on the situation with the same qualification CR would just laugh.


an imaginative use of a hypothetical.


----------



## 8den (Mar 3, 2016)

Casually Red said:


> Fuck off 8den, you and your creeps obsession . Steensons relevant qualification is he knows the people and the situation at hand . Unlike yourself who's reliant on the evening herald , the Garda press office and Forbes Israel . And your own imagination.
> 
> Now fuck off .



I resent that slur on my character. I've never willing purchased the herald in my life. 

But yes once again CR dismisses the opinion of anyone who disagrees with him as uninformed.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 4, 2016)

Bomb partially explodes in Belfast, injuring prison officer.

Belfast bomb: Further attacks 'highly likely' as 'dissidents want to mark Easter Rising centenary by killing security forces' - live updates - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 4, 2016)

8den said:


> I've never willing purchased the herald in my life.


there is of course a difference between never having bought the paper, willingly or otherwise, and never having read the paper


----------



## 8den (Mar 5, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> there is of course a difference between never having bought the paper, willingly or otherwise, and never having read the paper



Like you've never read a mail or telegraph article


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 5, 2016)

8den said:


> Like you've never read a mail or telegraph article


you're trying to make out you've never read the herald. i have by contrast never denied reading the telegraph or the mail.


----------



## 8den (Mar 6, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> you're trying to make out you've never read the herald. i have by contrast never denied reading the telegraph or the mail.



No I said "I've never purchased" the Herald. That doesn't mean I've never read it. I've never denied reading it. Just paying for it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2016)

8den said:


> I resent that slur on my character. I've never willing purchased the herald in my life.
> 
> But yes once again CR dismisses the opinion of anyone who disagrees with him as uninformed.


when cr says you're reliant on the herald and you reply thus ^ it's plain what you mean, that you intend to convey you don't read the herald.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2016)

8den said:


> Like you've never read a mail or telegraph article


and here you go. you wouldn't say this unless you meant to give the impression you don't read the herald.


----------



## 8den (Mar 6, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> when cr says you're reliant on the herald and you reply thus ^ it's plain what you mean, that you intend to convey you don't read the herald.



That's your interpretation. CR implied I that I was reliant on the herald for my information. I corrected him saying that I don't buy the Herald. It'd take s very tedious pedant to twist that into I've never read that Herald and well here you are.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2016)

8den said:


> That's your interpretation. CR implied I that I was reliant on the herald for my information. I corrected him saying that I don't buy the Herald. It'd take s very tedious pedant to twist that into I've never read that Herald and well here you are.


i never said you didn't read the herald, indeed it's been my contention throughout that you do.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2016)

i just think you read it online or someone elses's copy.- you don't *pay* for it, doesn't stop you being overly reliant on it. you nitpicking claim you don't buy it was intended, as well you know, to give the *impression* of not reading it without actually telling an out and out lie. you'd outjesuit a jesuit.


----------



## 8den (Mar 6, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i just think you read it online or someone elses's copy.- you don't *pay* for it, doesn't stop you being overly reliant on it. you nitpicking claim you don't buy it was intended, as well you know, to give the *impression* of not reading it without actually telling an out and out lie. you'd outjesuit a jesuit.



The Heralds online presence has been very poor. As is its general calibre of journalism. 

I've actually boycotted the Herald completely for over a decade after one of its journalists door stepped a friend of mine a few years ago in extremely inappropriate circumstances.


----------



## Red About Town (Mar 15, 2016)

Prison officer wounded in 'New IRA' Belfast bombing dies from blast impact


----------



## Red About Town (Sep 25, 2016)

The 'political wing' was launched yesterday in Newry.

Dissident Irish republicans launch new political party


----------



## Nigel (Sep 25, 2016)

Interesting development.
Fails to mention that UDA was legal/ not proscribe org. until 1992 and that its been caught pants down several times for collusion and state involvement using until that time UFF as front organisation before that time !
UDA re-emerges amid Northern Ireland's power-sharing crisis


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 25, 2016)

Nigel said:


> Interesting development.
> Fails to mention that UDA was legal/ not proscribe org. until 1992 and that its been caught pants down several times for collusion and state involvement using until that time UFF as front organisation before that time !
> UDA re-emerges amid Northern Ireland's power-sharing crisis


And given that Henry McD. has been around the block more than once, he _must _know that. . . .


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 16, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> And given that Henry McD. has been around the block more than once . . .



And literally_ wrote the book_ on it (okay, _a_ book, not _the _book)


----------



## rekil (Jun 5, 2017)

Absolutely riddled with informers (and loudmouth groupies )

Massive New IRA bomb bust as 6kg explosive haul is seized in city taxi - Independent.ie


> A massive New IRA bomb plot was foiled after gardai seized a staggering 6kg (13.2lb) of explosives in Dublin's north-inner city.
> 
> Heavily armed detectives carrying sub-machine guns stopped a seven-seater taxi during a dramatic arrest in Ballybough shortly after 6pm yesterday.
> 
> ...


----------



## 8den (Jun 6, 2017)

copliker said:


> Absolutely riddled with informers (and loudmouth groupies )
> 
> Massive New IRA bomb bust as 6kg explosive haul is seized in city taxi - Independent.ie



Some American politcan tweeted after the Manchester bombings "When did the IRA last launch an attack". Er 2001 on the mainland uk, and dissdents are still acting the muppet, you just don't hear about it you silly bloody yank". 

Next to zero coverage outside of Ireland, I imagine that'd change if one of these twats was called Achmed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

8den said:


> Some American politcan tweeted after the Manchester bombings "When did the IRA last launch an attack". Er 2001 on the mainland uk, and dissdents are still acting the muppet, you just don't hear about it you silly bloody yank".
> 
> Next to zero coverage outside of Ireland, I imagine that'd change if one of these twats was called Achmed.


in england (mainland uk ) rira 2001, pira - march 1997, bombs in relay boxes near wilmslow station.


----------



## rekil (Aug 3, 2017)

From the same lads that gave us the Shamil Basayev bouncy castle, there's an Alan Ryan pitch and putt trophy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2017)

copliker said:


> From the same lads that gave us the Shamil Basayev bouncy castle, there's an Alan Ryan pitch and putt trophy.
> 
> View attachment 112711


if i'm ever murdered please do not commemorate me with a pitch and putt tournament. or a bridge drive.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 3, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> if i'm ever murdered please do not commemorate me with a pitch and putt tournament. or a bridge drive.


crazy golf course?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> crazy golf course?


maybe petanque


----------



## rekil (Aug 3, 2017)

GPO made out of cocktail sausages.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 3, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> if i'm ever murdered please do not commemorate me with a pitch and putt tournament. or a bridge drive.



Spelling & Punctuation Bee?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Spelling & Punctuation Bee?


not that either


----------



## 8den (Aug 3, 2017)

Putting ar la.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2017)

8den said:


> Putting ar la.


that's why i'd be more in favour of petanque - or darts - cos then it could be chucky ar la


----------



## rekil (Aug 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> crazy golf course?


A Troubles themed crazy golf course would be a winner. It's going to happen as the boys said.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 4, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> maybe petanque



_Boules_.


----------



## likesfish (Aug 5, 2017)

copliker said:


> A Troubles themed crazy golf course would be a winner. It's going to happen as the boys said.




Once came up with the most tasteless idea ever a troubles themed theme bar 
Knee capped,semetx rubber bullet named cocktails etc etc etc


----------



## Poi E (Aug 5, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Once came up with the most tasteless idea ever a troubles themed theme bar
> Knee capped,semetx rubber bullet named cocktails etc etc etc



Shots at the bar.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 5, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Once came up with the most tasteless idea ever a troubles themed theme bar
> Knee capped,semetx rubber bullet named cocktails etc etc etc


I was once offered an "Irish car bomb" in Chicago.


----------



## likesfish (Aug 5, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> I was once offered an "Irish car bomb" in Chicago.



Thats actually a real thing in the states  asking for one over here tends to offend.

Steaks so great you'd break a hunger strike for


----------



## petee (Aug 5, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Thats actually a real thing in the states



i can confirm this, but you'll find it only in 20-something/college town bars.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 13, 2018)

It's starting!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Apr 13, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's starting!








Lilac gloves...


----------



## rekil (Apr 13, 2018)

Nah that's a tiny nothing grouplet claiming to be vigilantes but which will invariably seek to get a piece of the extortion market. Let's see if things play out as they did in Dublin. Murder of James Curran - Wikipedia

In the meantime, if a few more of casuallybrown's gangster filth mates get their heads blown off, I can't say I'd be very upset.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 13, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's starting!


Just Nidge an his pals updatin the ol Bebo page


----------



## mx wcfc (Apr 13, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> It's starting!


Fuck's sake.  That wallpaper on the left.  Someone's going to know where that is?


----------



## likesfish (Apr 13, 2018)

Very old school camo all the cool kids are using digital or multicam  even the jesus army have their own camo


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Apr 13, 2018)

likesfish said:


> Very old school camo all the cool kids are using digital or multicam  even the jesus army have their own camo



Ffs 
The guy in the middle can't even get the balaclava on properly.


----------



## kenny g (Apr 14, 2018)

Why is there a fleshlight on the table?


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Apr 14, 2018)

kenny g said:


> Why is there a fleshlight on the table?



That'd be a pipe bomb "light"or "lite"


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 14, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Ffs
> The guy in the middle can't even get the balaclava on properly.



Looks like something out of mummenschanz


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 15, 2018)

Can’t even put a trestle table up properly, the state of it.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 24, 2018)

Oooops



> Anyone with an ounce of sense would have known that live ammunition and pipe bombs mixed with heat is a recipe for carnage.


New IRA guns found in West Belfast 'used in previous attacks on PSNI'


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 25, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> Oooops
> 
> 
> New IRA guns found in West Belfast 'used in previous attacks on PSNI'



Can't access that.

Is it _new_ IRA guns or _New IRA_ guns?


----------



## dylanredefined (Nov 25, 2018)

I'm more interested in where they got those jackets from which are brand new. Than the old guns which obviously come from cache someone conveniently forgot about.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Can't access that.
> 
> Is it _new_ IRA guns or _New IRA_ guns?


‘New IRA guns’ rather than ‘new IRA guns’:



> "We firmly believe these weapons belong to the New IRA. One of the lines of enquiry is also that these AK47 firearms may have been used in attempts to murder police officers in the Rossnareen area in November 2015 and on the Crumlin Road in January 2017.”


----------



## likesfish (Nov 25, 2018)

dylanredefined said:


> I'm more interested in where they got those jackets from which are brand new. Than the old guns which obviously come from cache someone conveniently forgot about.



tbf at least they cut off the Little Union Jacks that would have been a tad embarrassing


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2018)

An eight year old article flagging up the confusion and interchangeability of Dublin IRA types:

Dissidents find new cause in drug war - Independent.ie


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2018)

Meanwhile, confusion continues in 2018:

Man pleads guilty to role in dissident's IRA murder - Herald.ie


----------



## rekil (Nov 25, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> Oooops
> 
> 
> New IRA guns found in West Belfast 'used in previous attacks on PSNI'


Solas									   Safepass



> It is important to note that the SOLAS Safe Pass Programme does not relieve employers of their statutory duty to provide other appropriate health and safety training for their employees.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2018)

Meanwhile, up in Drogheda:

Mob boss busted as armed Gardai raid houses in hunt for feud torture gang - Herald.ie


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2018)

copliker said:


> Solas Safepass


“Right lads, quick pop test - do we cache the gear (a) well wrapped in oil skin, placed in an airtight container and dropped into a well-drained, pre-dug, lined hole at a hidden but not wholly remote location, or (b) dumped in a SuperValu carrier on top of Deano's gran's next door neighbour's thick nephew's boiler?”


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 10, 2019)

likesfish said:


> jail them jail the lot of them
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, likesfish, how do you like it now?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Well, likesfish, how do you like it now?



you have to wonder who drilled the first contingent, their marching was er ungainly


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> you have to wonder who drilled the first contingent, their marching was er ungainly



A follow up groups weren't much better.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Lupa said:


> A follow up groups weren't much better.


it's a great pity


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's a great pity



Well...one wonders if they cant march then how will they run?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Well...one wonders if they cant march then how will they run?


they won't

"the black and tans like lightning ran from the rifles of the ira"

not forgetting the famous castlebar races


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Well...one wonders if they cant march then how will they run?


and of course


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

I meant chase... should have clarified that.
They need to get a lot fitter.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 10, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Well, likesfish, how do you like it now?




Its slightly better but hardly up to standard
  If they must do cosplay theirs a firm that make easter rising costumes you'd at least look distinctive rather than a frank spencer tribute act


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 11, 2019)

Fucking scumbags....full of hate. And nobody will take this crap down


----------



## likesfish (Jul 11, 2019)

and the other side have turned up proving you can always go lower
  anyone want to help me prove we only leased Northern Ireland off the Chinese?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 11, 2019)

Must have ordered the Isis flag online


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 11, 2019)

likesfish said:


> and the other side have turned up proving you can always go lower
> anyone want to help me prove we only leased Northern Ireland off the Chinese?



Go lower? They've never been anything but the lowest of the low.
The PSNI, Belfast Council and the people living near that monstrous pile of hate, are all intimidated. This is pure DUP / UVF bully boy action...typical. 
30 different contractors were asked by the council to take on the contract of removing the pile of pallets. Nobody will get involved for fear of repercussions from the UVF. 
Arlene cant walk away from this bigotry. And to think the Tyrone team manager had to apologise for some of the team singing "come out ye black and tans" in their own bus... but this obvious hate is allowed to stand there? 
Some bigotry is a hell of a lot worse.
I hope it lashes rain on them.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 11, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Go lower? They've never been anything but the lowest of the low.
> The PSNI, Belfast Council and the people living near that monstrous pile of hate, are all intimidated. This is pure DUP / UVF bully boy action...typical.
> 30 different contractors were asked by the council to take on the contract of removing the pile of pallets. Nobody will get involved for fear of repercussions from the UVF.
> Arlene cant walk away from this bigotry. And to think the Tyrone team manager had to apologise for some of the team singing "come out ye black and tans" in their own bus... but this obvious hate is allowed to stand there?
> ...



The silence from mainstream unionist leaders is deafening and is very telling. Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. 

There’ll be Internment bonfires coming up next month, nothing on the scale of the 11th and pretty much not wanted by the majority of Nationalists/Republicans but you can guarantee Unionist politicians will be out in force to condemn them.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 11, 2019)

fuck it should put a bid to do the bonfire removal  next year £30 grand £10grand will get a nearly new armored bulldozer FV180 Combat Engineer Tractor For Sale - Almost New (CET) we could decorate it with tricolours18 tons of armour will turn a bonfire into matchwood hire a couple of skip lorries off to the next one  back to the car ferry before the idiots no what's happening.
   I'm sure some of the lads doing the crap marching above  would like a couple of days casual laboring they've already got balaclavas and work boots  and if they want to provide security well they won't hit any innocents this time


----------



## A380 (Jul 12, 2019)

Time for my annual quote about how the Vatican was allied with William and Mary in 1690...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

A380 said:


> Time for my annual quote about how the Vatican was allied with William and Mary in 1690...


you'll infuriate the orange men and they will turn puce with ire


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

Lupa said:


> View attachment 177116
> 
> 
> Fucking scumbags....full of hate. And nobody will take this crap down


i thought everyone knew that burning painted pallets was a bad idea. clearly the information hasn't reached east belfast


----------



## likesfish (Jul 12, 2019)

Health and safety and respect for your neighbours 
Loyalists facts logic get away with taigish ideas king Billy was the manilest of men but not in that way you understand.

Theres nothing wrong with being gay but the Orange fucks who are known to be oh so liberal worshipping a Gay king who was in leauge with the pope 

At least the interment fires arnt usualLy a threat to life and property


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought everyone knew that burning painted pallets was a bad idea. clearly the information hasn't reached east belfast




The tyres were removed. 
They've had 3 months to intervene and despite fire officers stating it needed taking down, nothing haa been done. The people living nearby have had to leave til this is over. 

likesfish ,  I cant understand your post at all.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought everyone knew that burning painted pallets was a bad idea. clearly the information hasn't reached east belfast



They would burn their grannies if there was nothing left to burn.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 12, 2019)

Anywhere else in the world where backward motherfuckers get licence from the state to burn such monstrosities? I mean, Alabama probably doesn't hand out permits for this sort of shit anymore. I suppose Unionist forces have to let us know what happens if you oppose the Union.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 12, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Anywhere else in the world where backward motherfuckers get licence from the state to burn such monstrosities? I mean, Alabama probably doesn't hand out permits for this sort of shit anymore. I suppose Unionist forces have to let us know what happens if you oppose the Union.



Not religious but the burning of Pope effigies in Lewes always felt uncomfortable.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 12, 2019)

Oh yeah, that too. Creepy shit those British.


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 12, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Well, likesfish, how do you like it now?



Lad at 1.25 needs his mum to go down to the scout hut and buy him the next size up.


----------



## andysays (Jul 12, 2019)

Lupa said:


> likesfish ,  I cant understand your post at all.


The time to worry would be when you think you *can *understand one of likesfish's posts, TBH


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 12, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Lad at 1.25 needs his mum to go down to the scout hut and buy him the next size up.



The grandad in front shares with him...obvs.


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## Fedayn (Jul 12, 2019)

krtek a houby said:


> Not religious but the burning of Pope effigies in Lewes always felt uncomfortable.



It is in 'remembrance' of the Lewes Martyrs who were killed as a result of Papal orders. So it has a historical context but it is a bit creepy and recently they burtn a caravan that reflected travellers, that is, for me, far more worthy of condemnation, as cuntish as the rather anti-Catholic sentiment is that has clearly overtaken the anti-Papal sentiment that is refers to.


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## likesfish (Jul 12, 2019)

That was Firle not Lewes even more rural although lewes had the totally not racist zulus though they may have given up the blackface now


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