# social work?



## baldrick (Sep 3, 2011)

...is probably the least loved occupation on urban but i thought i would ask.

is anyone a social worker? who do you work with? how did you get into it?

i need a change, i used to do volunteer stuff with young people but then fell into a job that is technically people-related but is really IT and my heart's not really in it. i've been considering doing something else and probably the time to do it is soon while i won't miss the drop in salary too much. i would earn more doing what i do now, but i'm never going to get rich in the public sector so i may as well do something that's not numbers and doesn't involve perverse incentives. in theory.

Go on, put me off.


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## scifisam (Sep 3, 2011)

Only do it if you can face the worst in the world. I don't mean your clients, though some of them will be like that, but everyone else. It will be as bad as you expect times 100.

I wouldn't have said as much as this ten years ago, but all the social workers I've met since then have, except one, been horrible and made everything worse without any way of making anything better. I would never want to work in that system or work with those people.

But then, it's only going to get worse if we discourage people from the profession. So yes! Go for it, person who can read! I've met one who can't, and also doesn't think checking spelling is important. Even when it comes to names. Even when that meant she thought I was someone else entirely.

The pay is nowhere near what the job is worth, but at least it's regular pay. I bet you can help people sometimes even if you do something as simple as typing their name correctly. I bet there are lots of good people in the job. I've met a couple who were nice, but they seemed to be struggling against the tide. The happier ones were incredibly shit; one of them was the one who thought I was someone else and wrote her report on that basis. She also thought that all autistic children couldn't speak.

I mean, I was a white middle-class woman who was not the one under investigation, so I'm not in a demographic to get treated badly, which makes me wonder what the hell happens to people who aren't like me. Prior to my own experiences, I would have thought 'well, there must have been some reason...' I know now that that's not true.


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## baldrick (Sep 3, 2011)

yeah.  i'm wary tbh.  i know one social worker, via work, reasonably well.  she used to do CP and had a breakdown.  mainly due to management i think.  my manager's manager used to work with paedos and moved out of front line before something awful happened.

but then that's two people's experiences, which isn't representative, or so i keep telling myself.  and the authority i work for have had 2 inadequate social care judgements.

i think the worst would be deciding this was something i really wanted to do that would help people and then being shit at it.  at least now no one will be hurt if i fuck things up.


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## Part 2 (Sep 3, 2011)

You don't say what kind of social work but I'm assuming you mean CP/children. I work in the field although I've never bothered to qualify (had the opportunity once). I don't think it's quite Urbans most hated profession (I once started such a thread).

I've met hundreds of social workers, good and bad, those who work within the system to do as mush as they can and those who use the system to do as little as they have to, too many who don't seem to like children and some who really appreciate the issues and difficulties involved with the young people they're working with. The system is shit on the whole to both users and workers, it can depend on how your authority manages risk.

My mate who qualified three years ago said on her course most people were there for the MA, because there was a bursary, not because it was what they wanted to do. If you feel you have the life experience and can handle the shit and you really think you can make just a little bit of difference then go for it because too many are qualifying who haven't got a clue. If you were to qualify now you have to do a CP placement. The closing date has just gone for the 'Step up to Social work' jobs which are paying £15k/year, you need a degree first like.

Breakdowns in CP are fairly commonplace, the workloads and responsibilities are massive and you'll hear things that will make you despair for humanity. 20 years in I keep thinking I've heard it all about the shit families do to each other but I'm still frequently surprised by people's stories. For me it depends on the support you get, I'm lucky to have a had good managers and work in solid team.

Saying all this I know there'll be a time when I want to get out, workloads are only going to get bigger in the current climate.


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## Part 2 (Sep 3, 2011)

dp


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## Voley (Sep 3, 2011)

scifisam said:


> Only do it if you can face the worst in the world. I don't mean your clients, though some of them will be like that, but everyone else. It will be as bad as you expect times 100.


That sounds exactly like my experience of working as a homelessness officer.



baldrick said:


> i think the worst would be deciding this was something i really wanted to do that would help people and then being shit at it. at least now no one will be hurt if i fuck things up.


I think the worst would be thinking you're in a profession that's meant to help people but is chronically underfunded and is consequently unable to do that properly.
That was my experience and it actually made me ill to the point of a nervous breakdown. The two jobs aren't the same but It's grim getting into a role with the best intentions only to find it impossible to help as much as you'd like.


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## Voley (Sep 3, 2011)

So yeah, go for it!


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## baldrick (Sep 3, 2011)

Chip Barm said:


> You don't say what kind of social work but I'm assuming you mean CP/children. I work in the field although I've never bothered to qualify (had the opportunity once). I don't think it's quite Urbans most hated profession (I once started such a thread).
> 
> I've met hundreds of social workers, good and bad, those who work within the system to do as mush as they can and those who use the system to do as little as they have to, too many who don't seem to like children and some who really appreciate the issues and difficulties involved with the young people they're working with. The system is shit on the whole to both users and workers, it can depend on how your authority manages risk.
> 
> ...


one of the managers in my team told me about the step up to social work thing, she's applied for it.  if they have another cohort next year that gives me some time to do some more voluntary work and be sure that I really want to do it.

I'm undecided about the area of social work I'd want to do to be honest.  I don't know enough to know whether I could cope with CP, i am on the sidelines of it in my current role and i think i hear all the worst bits - i get the notifications of child deaths and requests for information for serious case reviews but not any of the good stuff - there must be good stuff, surely?   i must be mad.

NVP - yeah that's kinda what worries me.  the road to hell is paved with good intentions  and social care budgets are getting slashed along with everything else at the moment.  but someone's got to do it haven't they?  i don't want to be a pen pusher, i can't really kid myself that my job is helping people - it's helping government targets and that's not the same thing.


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## janeb (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm not a social worker but I do work with C&YP social workers - some are great, some less so - pretty much like every workplace really.

But I'd do your research really carefully, there are a huge number of Newly Qualified Social Workers (NQSW's) who haven't been able to find a job this year and indications are that with jobs being cut / recruitment freezes in many if not all LA's the position won't get much better for some time. And even experienced Agency workers are finding it hard to get placements because of over supply.

I'd have a good read of Community Care first.


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## baldrick (Sep 3, 2011)

janeb, thanks.  food for thought.


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## Voley (Sep 4, 2011)

baldrick said:


> NVP - yeah that's kinda what worries me. the road to hell is paved with good intentions  and social care budgets are getting slashed along with everything else at the moment. but someone's got to do it haven't they? i don't want to be a pen pusher, i can't really kid myself that my job is helping people - it's helping government targets and that's not the same thing.



It's good you're considering this as a potential problem now rather than later - and I'm glad you've not taken what I said as being overly negative. Someone does have to do the job, you're right, and the ones who are good at it do help people hugely. IME the ones who are good at it tend to be very committed but also able to switch the job off when they go home. I have difficulty just forgetting about people's problems when 5pm comes around so it wouldn't be for me.


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## _angel_ (Sep 4, 2011)

scifisam said:


> Only do it if you can face the worst in the world. I don't mean your clients, though some of them will be like that, but everyone else. It will be as bad as you expect times 100.
> 
> I wouldn't have said as much as this ten years ago, but all the social workers I've met since then have, except one, been horrible and made everything worse without any way of making anything better. I would never want to work in that system or work with those people.
> 
> ...


Have we met the same woman I'm thinking.

But then when I see the very low entry requirements for a social work degree, I can't say I'm that surprised. I know exams don't mean intelligence, but christ, the woman we had before the current one was unbelievably thick.


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## 8115 (Sep 4, 2011)

Social workers work in many different areas, working in child protection being only one.  For instance there's learning difficulties, care of the elderly,  to name but a few.


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## stuff_it (Sep 4, 2011)

AFAIK if you are any good at social work you will burn out before you retire, so have a back up plan.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 5, 2011)

I'd be tempted to ask - why social work, in particular? It sounds as if there's no specific field that you're entirely interested in, so I guess the social work qualification would make very good sense in terms of getting a good head start. I guess I'm wondering whether or not there might be other avenues (3rd sector, for example) that might - perhaps - be a bit less secure and pay less; but might offer more room for innovation / creativity / job satisfaction.

I fully appreciate that's kinda fluffy / imprecise stuff, though.

When I failed my Bachelors, way back when, I was really struck by the discrepancy between what we were being taught; and practice, both as it looked then, and as it's looked now (during my PhD research and professional practice). The theory was radical all the way. Radical anti-discriminatory practice, radical needs-led work, radical perspectives on disability, radical everything.

And then I looked at social work in practice, in my old job (working with an elderly / disability team in Surrey) and there was... nothing, really, that even remotely resembled any form of radical or needs-led work. A whole lot of high-skilled work, brokering, surfing the purchaser / provider split; but not a great deal in terms of what we were being 'taught' social work (and social work values) were all about.

Since failing THAT degree (undeclared cautions) and moving elsewhere, IME it's looked like a very difficult picture. CP looks like _such _a difficult area. My interest's around complex difficulties - begin with substance misusing offenders, then add in mental disorder and / or sex work and / or homelessness and / or violence (etc). Uh, the gaps in provision are... stark. tbh. Bordering on shocking. I've sat in on presentations where CP leads have been telling criminal justice drugs workers that they will ONLY take any referrals if there is an immediate and known threat of physical harm, backed up by multiple referrals. AND many of those referrals would only be accepted if the parents involved volunteered to have their information shared (and the referral put in).

This was in an area that'd been shaken (a year or two earlier) by a child death scandal that'd highlighted concerning failures in the local CP system, and was a reflection of the new, tighter model.

I've also seen (and visited) 3 kids living with a bloke who had previous convictions for sexual assault of a minor, who had run out of antipsychotics (a recurring situation) and who tended to get violent / aggressive without them. And the social worker was only in peripatetic contact with the drugs worker who was conducting outreach.

The impression I've got of social work - over the last handful of years - is that it's massively understaffed, massively overstretched, filled to a considerable extent with people who see social work as a stable job and a good wage. Going by my Bachelors, the wage (rather than the human factor) was a big draw for a lot of people. Who, sometimes, are pretty shockingly shite with people (particularly the 'unclean' or 'nasty' vulnerable ones).

Pfffft, then again, like others've said, the system's crying out for good social workers. And people who're engaging with a heart, and willing / able to go the extra mile.

The odd occasions where I've heard of really excellent (and appreciated) work by a social worker has often gone a long way to turning someone's situation around and / or providing pretty critical help.

These days, I'm immensely glad that I didn't complete that route; but on the other hand, if you're going in with your eyes open, then more power to you and heartfelt best of luck.


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## Kidda (Oct 6, 2011)

baldrick said:


> ...is probably the least loved occupation on urban but i thought i would ask.
> 
> is anyone a social worker? who do you work with? how did you get into it?
> 
> ...



Id go for the Masters in Social Work, it would give you a bit longer to explore which avenue you wanted to go down and a couple of placements to test the water. Its a bit longer than step up to social work but it would give you a good solid base in theory and practice based experience from which to work from.

I have quite a few mates who are qualified and registered social workers and they do so well because they didnt become a social worker, there are many other jobs that it would open the door for.

Working with Young People is hard to get in to at the moment, underfunded, frustratingly full of dickheads who put themselves first before the youths and people who think that money can be chopped and changed because results cant instantly be pulled out of peoples arses.
How about looking in to drug work, housing, probation or advice and guidance?

Do you want a job with face to face contact with clients the majority of the time? if so id avoid the family support route, i think you'd get bored pretty quickly. I mean how much can you 'stay and play' and talk about breastfeeding if your interest isnt early years before you start pulling your hair out?


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## teahead (Oct 6, 2011)

I was intending to pass through a statutory SW organisation to pick up some free training as a family therapist, but was persuaded by their very motivated collaborative management style and new (mdt/health-based, merit/outcome oriented) model for approaching Child Protection (stupid fucking phrase for a start - family facilitation's at least a little better, politically). An easy thing about CP is that it's pretty fucking obvious something needs doing, because kids are dependent on adults and in conservative times like these its plain that managing outside 'the system' is next to bloody impossible. Different when I was a nipper drawing dole, weed etc, blagging my way into gigs, reading the Mirror with a cuppa, messing about with motorbikes etc 

I love the service user contact and my borough's model produces results. But CP's frankly a depressed and only recently 'professionalised' environment/interventive practice. It's also amazingly primitive by comparison with practically any other kind of work you can think of... merchandising, manufacturing, law, biological medicine, teaching, various kinds of service provision (which is really just selling). Psychiatry is maybe 100 years old and still trying to become consistently effective, Social work's work's really hardly more than 50 years old in lots of ways and sometimes seems pretty medieval (or very dodgily like some kind of charidee if done WRONG ). At its worst it's a branch of government. At its best it might have something to do with social health (although there's problems with saying what's 'healthy' when it comes to social functioning). Work loads are way high in lots of departments (but that's the same in lots of work environments). Workers and managers are often pushed to cling on to certainties that aren't certainties at all, and to boss around people who are already vulnerable and abused. Amazing amounts of what looks like incompetence, and face-saving, and banana-republic behaviours. Bad management and pathetic IT are the worst bits, for me. Oh, and the 'worthy' bullshit but that's rare in decent departments.

I think being able to say 'fuck off' politely so that you're free to act, while keeping receptive to good practice ideas, and obviously to what service users are wanting/needing/talking about is essential. Has social work figured out what it wants to achieve? Probably not; and certainly not in terms of 'child protection'. But then you could say the same for Health: beyond reducing acute crises, are there any intentions beyond reducing social costs? 'Quality of life'? Well it depends what values you're thinking about when you say 'quality' innit.

But I used to work in media (sure, a total cunt since birth) so don't have any qualms in pointing out that social disorder and distress is erm a growth market . There's an obvious and severe need to find ways for dependents (children, old-timers, people with mental health issues, other disabilities) to receive better care so that they can live more satisfying lives (this is necessarily vague... don't want to invite the inevitable Urban shitstorm). There's a perspective that suggests political and technological development are continuing to slowly destabilise communities and the protection they offer to people who have difficulty managing without help or whatever you want to call it. There seems to be an increasingl need to replace those community-based generators of social health. 'Needing help' is sort of... dirty in many parts of mainstream culture no? It's just a shame we live in a society where this kind of work is needing to be done - in some socio-economic sectors - by government workers (social services, schools, health workers, even police are all 'at it'... with the inevitable dangers of producing conformity on the one hand, and an encouragement towards potentially self-destructive 'rebellion' on the other).

Urban hates social workers - sure! 
I've never seen a tighter concentration of (unqualified versions of) the fuckers that the peeps around these parts. Even the mardy ones. I've found CP/family facilitation work exciting, original, creative, rewarding, intellectually stimulating. but also sometimes feeling pointless, mentally unsound, furiously fucking angry, frustrated, exhausted, abused, and surrounded by freaks who disgust me (by which I mean other workers - service users naturally products of their grim lives innit). For me, it's about helping families recover or establish independence from those parts of the state they want to be free from. And about helping them offer their kids the best available chances to manage their own lives in a way that other peeps like and want to promote. I'd reckon doing that kind of thing's hopeless as a first career, but fucking great for some as a 2nd maybe, if you like that kind of thing, including what Sam said:



> Only do it if you can face the worst in the world. I don't mean your clients, though some of them will be like that, but everyone else. It will be as bad as you expect times 100.



Good way to get into it is to check out some kind of support role. If you want to do CP you need prior experience of work with children for a start (der!). One day maybe the whole thing will be more professionalised but at the moment if you're half-smart, genuinely interested, not too fucked in the head or arrogant about what other people need/want, or some kind of religious nut, and can write a coherent sentence, then your prospects for getting in are likely to be pretty excellent.


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## teahead (Oct 6, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> And then I looked at social work in practice, in my old job (working with an elderly / disability team in Surrey) and there was... nothing, really, that even remotely resembled any form of radical or needs-led work. A whole lot of high-skilled work, brokering, surfing the purchaser / provider split; but not a great deal in terms of what we were being 'taught' social work (and social work values) were all about.


See this http://www.jkp.com/catalogue/book/9781849052023


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## marty21 (Oct 6, 2011)

I work with Social Workers, sometimes in the past very closely when I have managed very vulnerable tenants, they have a tough job, with little thanks from the tenants themselves sometimes, and the wider public. I've worked with a variety of social workers, some excellent, some not.


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## miniGMgoit (Oct 6, 2011)

Second post sums it up I'm afraid.

I've just "got out" after 10 years and am finding it strange to work in a place where the people are genuinely nice and not out to fuck you over the first chance they get. Sadly I decided to retrain as a nurse, a profession which seems to have an even larger cunt ratio than social work as I have discovered through my clinical placements. So I have a new world of shit on the horizon. I'm looking into graduate diplomas in other areas already. I might do biochemistry.


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## marty21 (Oct 6, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> AFAIK if you are any good at social work you will burn out before you retire, so have a back up plan.


you do get transferrable skills - housing management for example

actually...don't go into that - I'm stuck there


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## AnnaKarpik (Oct 7, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> ...
> 
> When I failed my Bachelors, way back when, I was really struck by the discrepancy between what we were being taught; and practice, both as it looked then, and as it's looked now (during my PhD research and professional practice). The theory was radical all the way. Radical anti-discriminatory practice, radical needs-led work, radical perspectives on disability, radical everything.
> 
> And then I looked at social work in practice, in my old job (working with an elderly / disability team in Surrey) and there was... nothing, really, that even remotely resembled any form of radical or needs-led work. A whole lot of high-skilled work, brokering, surfing the purchaser / provider split; but not a great deal in terms of what we were being 'taught' social work (and social work values) were all about.



This sounds familiar; the talk at work (I am admin, not SW, adult social care) is of de-skilling, tick-box social work and jeopardising professional registration because the practice of social work has degenerated into an exercise in skillfully begging for funding from budget holders with little relationship to the needs of the people (service users) involved. Google personalisation and read behind the lines. The divide between social work as it is taught and social work as it is practised are set to increase imo if the demonisation of the public sector continues. Which I think it will. I know two very highly skilled social workers who will only take on agency work because that way they can let a lot of the stress wash over them, take out the time they need and not get involved in politics.

That's adult social care though, the great black hole of funding. See if you can find people to talk to about mental health services (though they only seem to deal with seriously, permanently ill people with a diagnosis) or youth offending.


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## teahead (Oct 7, 2011)

Why is this thread so anodyne ffs? 
Political peeps tend to avoid this kind of career baldrick (baldrick - you're kidding right? not really a whipping boy...). And of course politics, also full of CU next Tues.

But if you're interested in making these things Effective... you know.
Lots of moribund gentle cows in the field: tasty meat.

Who cares about the peeps that want to talk about their professional disappointments?
Either you're about enabling the population that's subjected by whatever, or you're not.


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## softybabe (Oct 7, 2011)

8115 said:


> Social workers work in many different areas, working in child protection being only one. For instance there's learning difficulties, care of the elderly, to name but a few.



^^^^^this.  I have worked in learning disability as a social work assistant and now in fostering as a supervisor and being sponsored by my employers on a SW degree, my first degree was in health and social work.
I find fostering very rewarding but there are negatives as it’s with most professions.
I love it and will qualify next year and hope to remain in fostering then save up so I can be self-employed.  Social work is very versatile.  And no, I don’t think you have to do a CP placement, you need to do a statutory placement though.  My first 100days was in fostering and my final year, next year will be in Youth work.
Go for it!


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