# Why are groceries so DAMN expensive here??????



## lyra_k (Aug 15, 2005)

As we are wont to do every few months or so, we've decided to try and eat out less, and cook more.

For a family of three, if we never ate out and avoided expensive items, it would still cost us about $2-300 PER WEEK to buy our groceries.     Fresh fruit and vegetables are the worst, and a halfway decent loaf of bread costs over $3, and often over $4.    

We could eat out every day for about $100 for all three of us, for a week (and that's healthily, not talking about McDonalds).

Am I alone in this driving me FUCKING INSANE???  Clothes and cars might be cheap here, but who cares if you spend half your paycheck each month on grocery shopping?

In England, if I shopped at discount places I could buy a week's shopping for about £80.     And the quality of the food was A LOT better too.


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## spring-peeper (Aug 15, 2005)

It's probably the cost of fuel that has driven the costs up.

A good portion of the food is coming from the West coast and is trucked over.


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## kea (Aug 16, 2005)

blimey.  that puts the us's obesity problems in a new light.


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## King Biscuit Time (Aug 16, 2005)

I thought we lived in 'Rip Off Britain' (c) Daily Mail.

It would seem not!


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## lyra_k (Aug 16, 2005)

The other really noticeable difference with food between the UK and here is that here stuff takes forever to go off.  Lord knows what they put in it - obviously stuff that's illegal to use in the UK.


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## _angel_ (Aug 16, 2005)

I always thought food was cheaper in the US?? Or certainly to eat out it was anyway??????????

I have an American-Bahamian friend who marvelled at the cheapness of Tesco so praps not - although I always thought it was the Bahamian prices she was complaining about. (Cos they import nearly everything apparently)


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## lyra_k (Aug 16, 2005)

Maddalene said:
			
		

> I always thought food was cheaper in the US?? Or certainly to eat out it was anyway??????????



Nope, your friend was probably amazed at the fact that Tesco was half the price or less of US supermarkets.

It's such a scam - real food prices can't be THAT high, despite transport costs, as the restaurants can buy food at prices which are cheap enough to undercut the supermarkets by 50%.

I think it's one of those things where the average American doesn't know any different, so the supermarkets just keep screwing them over.

The general perception that America=low cost of living just isn't true, IME.  Like I said, some meaningless consumer goods like clothes and cars might be cheap, but that's almost like an opium for the people to take their minds off the fact that basics like food are outrageously overpriced.

Another thing that pisses me off is the cost of phonecalls - not only are they more expensive, but on mobile phones you pay for both outgoing and INCOMING calls, FFS!!!   

(I'm enjoying my little rant)


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## Brainaddict (Aug 16, 2005)

lyra_kitten said:
			
		

> The other really noticeable difference with food between the UK and here is that here stuff takes forever to go off.  Lord knows what they put in it - obviously stuff that's illegal to use in the UK.


 yeah they do put a lot more in. someone told me that normal bread in the US has the same amount of preservatives as what gets sold as long-lasting bread here


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## Brainaddict (Aug 16, 2005)

I'd heard that mobile phone calls were much cheaper in the states - is this not the case?


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## lyra_k (Aug 16, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I'd heard that mobile phone calls were much cheaper in the states - is this not the case?



HELL no!    

And as I said, you pay for both incoming and outgoing calls.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 16, 2005)

I realise that NY is a bit more expensive, but    (I've heard that organized crime takes about 10% of every dollar spent in NY off the top.  Have no idea if that is true of not).

I don't think I've ever spent more than $75 a MONTH on food (1 person).  I eat mostly rice, beans and veggies.   You can get a 50 pound bag of rice for $8.00 at the Mexican grocery.  I buy canned veggies 3 for $1--sometimes a case at a time.  

Maybe you could make a shopping trip once a month outside the city itself and stock up.  I'm betting it's cheaper in Jersey.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 16, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> I'd heard that mobile phone calls were much cheaper in the states - is this not the case?



Mobile phones aren't subsidised either - some US clients we have are always eyeing our phones with envy.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 16, 2005)

$3/4 for a loaf of bread!? Fucking christ, aint that like £1.50/2.00??


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## t0bytoo (Aug 16, 2005)

Yeah but look at the price of petrol in the US - and they're still freaking out about  it.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 16, 2005)

t0bytoo said:
			
		

> Yeah but look at the price of petrol in the US - and they're still freaking out about  it.



Its nowhere near as bad as the gas shortages of the 70s or the price levels of the early 80s.  In 1985, I had to work an hour for two gallons of gas.  At that same job now, I could get enough wage for three gallons.


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## Thora_v1 (Aug 16, 2005)

Brainaddict said:
			
		

> yeah they do put a lot more in. someone told me that normal bread in the US has the same amount of preservatives as what gets sold as long-lasting bread here


There was something in the Guardian today about all the preservatives they put in food, and how dairy products are all "ultra pasteurised" so they taste weird and never go off


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 16, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> $3/4 for a loaf of bread!? Fucking christ, aint that like £1.50/2.00??



Shop a day-old bread store.  It's 1/3 the cost.


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## t0bytoo (Aug 16, 2005)

I think it's cause mass produced bread in the us is nasty. And like everything here, if you want something nice, then you are in the minority. And it's going to cost more.


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## lyra_k (Aug 16, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> I realise that NY is a bit more expensive, but    (I've heard that organized crime takes about 10% of every dollar spent in NY off the top.  Have no idea if that is true of not).
> 
> I don't think I've ever spent more than $75 a MONTH on food (1 person).  I eat mostly rice, beans and veggies.   You can get a 50 pound bag of rice for $8.00 at the Mexican grocery.  I buy canned veggies 3 for $1--sometimes a case at a time.
> 
> Maybe you could make a shopping trip once a month outside the city itself and stock up.  I'm betting it's cheaper in Jersey.




I think going to New Jersey would just make things worse, as I'm in southern AZ, right on the border.      How much are flights these days?

Seriously, though, I'm not talking about freakin' survival rations like beans and rice and canned vegetables, I'm talking about a good variety of basic foodstuffs that will last a week, that I can make meals with.  Including plenty of fresh fruit and veggies, and there are three of us, not one.

On the kind of diet you describe, you could probably feed yourself for a week in England on £20, maximum.  But most people wouldn't want to live on beans and rice.


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## marty21 (Aug 16, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> $3/4 for a loaf of bread!? Fucking christ, aint that like £1.50/2.00??



you can pay that in organic bakeries over here too


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## editor (Aug 16, 2005)

I found the price of groceries in NYC well expensive - yet the restaurants were generally cheaper than here!

Can't say I was that impressed by the quality of the food in the average NY store either - the cheese and bread were like grim reminders of 1970s Britain and the giant size tomatoes and apples contrasted with their near complete absence of taste.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 16, 2005)

lyra_kitten said:
			
		

> I think going to New Jersey would just make things worse, as I'm in southern AZ, right on the border.      How much are flights these days?
> 
> Seriously, though, I'm not talking about freakin' survival rations like beans and rice and canned vegetables, I'm talking about a good variety of basic foodstuffs that will last a week, that I can make meals with.  Including plenty of fresh fruit and veggies, and there are three of us, not one.
> 
> On the kind of diet you describe, you could probably feed yourself for a week in England on £20, maximum.  But most people wouldn't want to live on beans and rice.



Four words for you: WalMart SuperStore.


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## t0bytoo (Aug 17, 2005)

lyra_kitten said:
			
		

> I'm in southern AZ, right on the border.



No wonder you have the time to shop around for all the bargains!


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## t0bytoo (Aug 17, 2005)

One (up-its-arse) soho grocery store tried to charge me 11$ for a lettuce. Okay, it was organic, but..


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## Concrete Meadow (Aug 17, 2005)

Too bad you aren't in the east coast, lyra_kitten. 

We're lucky to be in NYC. Now, skip all the fancy markets such as Garden of Eden, Food Emporium and skip all the common ones such as KeyFood and go directly to Chinatown! You'll be pleasantly surprised by the price and quality of everything from fish to meat to veggies (all sorts of veggies!) and fruits.




			
				t0bytoo said:
			
		

> One (up-its-arse) soho grocery store tried to charge me 11$ for a lettuce. Okay, it was organic, but..



That's Dean and Deluca for you--shameless!


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## t0bytoo (Aug 17, 2005)

It was indeed!


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 17, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> Four words for you: WalMart SuperStore.



You wash that dirty mouth out with soap, young man!!!!


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 17, 2005)

lyra_kitten said:
			
		

> I think going to New Jersey would just make things worse, as I'm in southern AZ, right on the border.      How much are flights these days?
> 
> Seriously, though, I'm not talking about freakin' survival rations like beans and rice and canned vegetables, I'm talking about a good variety of basic foodstuffs that will last a week, that I can make meals with.  Including plenty of fresh fruit and veggies, and there are three of us, not one.
> 
> On the kind of diet you describe, you could probably feed yourself for a week in England on £20, maximum.  But most people wouldn't want to live on beans and rice.



That's not survival rations.  Survival rations is going to the feed store and buying 50 lb sacks of corn and grinding it to make polenta and corn muffins.  Its dumpster diving for canned goods and gleaning harvested fields for left over grain.  It's picking the leaves off your grape vines for salad greens.   

I could probably eat for $40 a month, but I also buy fresh veggies at the farmer's market.  I don't eat _just_ beans and rice.  I also eat sweet potato curry, minestrone, chicken and rice, fish cakes, etc.  

PS.  For some reason I thought you were in NYC.


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## _angel_ (Aug 17, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> I found the price of groceries in NYC well expensive - yet the restaurants were generally cheaper than here!
> 
> .




Now that _is_ odd. You can see why people would end up eating out all the time esp fast food and getting fat.

Another restaurant query UK wise: Why is a bottle of wine marked up so much here, when on the continent it costs about the same as buying it in an off licence?


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## Loki (Aug 17, 2005)

lyra_kitten said:
			
		

> and a halfway decent loaf of bread costs over $3, and often over $4.



That's an insane price (unless you're talking about a rather fancy loaf of bread). It's at least double what it costs in London and London is one of the most expensive cities on the planet.

Do you live somewhere remote where they have to freight everything in?


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## lyra_k (Aug 17, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> It's picking the leaves off your grape vines for salad greens.



Can you eat the leaves???   That's cool.  *rushes out to grapevine* (do they taste OK?)

concretemeadow - that is a great suggestion about going to some of the ethnic supermarkets for cheaper (and probably better) fresh stuff.  We have a huge Korean supermarket in town which I've never been to (always forget it's there - it's in the kind of location that you'd only be if you were driving there specifically).


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 17, 2005)

Yes.  Just be sure to devein the leaves.  Its best to mix with another type of green.

You can also make stuffed grape leaves:

1/4 teaspoon allspice 
1/8 teaspoon cinnamon 
60 grape leaves 
1 pound ground meat 
handful parsley finely chopped fresh 
1 cup rice 

Rinse rice in cold water, drain. Add all ingredients except lemon juice and grape leaves, mix well.  Wilt leaves a few at a time by rinsing in hot water (a few at a time), be sure to cut off thick stems. Place a heaping teaspoon of lamb/rice mixture on edge of dull side of leaf. Begin rolling from stem end, after the first roll fold ends in to close and finish rolling. Place a few leaves in bottom of pan. Arrange rolls in compact rows, seam side down Cover with water about 1/2 inch over the top. Sprinkle 1 T salt over rolls. Cover pan, cook on medium 20 minutes. reduce heat, add lemon juice cook 10 more minutes. Drain the juice before serving.


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## lyra_k (Aug 17, 2005)

Loki said:
			
		

> That's an insane price (unless you're talking about a rather fancy loaf of bread). It's at least double what it costs in London and London is one of the most expensive cities on the planet.
> 
> Do you live somewhere remote where they have to freight everything in?


  Nope, not at all.  I live in the country, and do my shopping in a regular town near Tucson.

The bread I'm talking about is called "Health Nut", and it's the closest I've been able to find to a granary loaf in the UK, which costs what, about 80p?  It is a kind of premium brand, but the cheap breads here are pretty much inedible - feels like eating a piece of polystyrene, and probably has about as many natural ingredients.

Even the Health Nut is full of preservatives, but at least it tastes OK.


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## EatMoreChips (Aug 17, 2005)

Food in supermarkets is much cheaper in Chicago than in London, so it can't be the same everywhere. 

We tend to grow a lot of our food and bake bread and cake and stuff anyway, but anything we do need to buy tends to be cheaper (for processed foods) or a similar price (for fresh food) than it was in Britain.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 17, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> You wash that dirty mouth out with soap, young man!!!!




I'm Canadian, without your american prejudices.

I love Walmart Superstore.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 17, 2005)

I've had no use for them since they built a store north of town, in the middle of a wetlands and last habitat for an endangered species.  I don't imagine my boycott has much effect, but I can try.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 17, 2005)

Well, ok. Living on the westcoast, we have nothing but wetland, and I don't think the local walmarts have endangered anything aside from women who wear spike heels on movators.


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## tobyjug (Aug 18, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I'm Canadian, without your american prejudices.
> 
> .



My wife and I spent a fortnight in Canada self catering and food was very very cheap.


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## t0bytoo (Aug 18, 2005)

[deleted]an off-topic rant about some dumb newspaper article discussing the merits of walmart moving to new york[/deleted]


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## spring-peeper (Aug 18, 2005)

tobyjug said:
			
		

> My wife and I spent a fortnight in Canada self catering and food was very very cheap.



Last time I was in London, I found the meat to be a lot more expensive, but your milk was half the price of ours.


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## Techno303 (Aug 18, 2005)

I lived in Michigan for a few years and also found the price of groceries a bit excessive in comparison to the UK. I think I was probably paying about a third more.  

What I also found quite irritating was ‘European style’ food such as decent cheese, breads and cold meats etc were blatantly marked up in price.


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## indicate (Aug 18, 2005)

I think that if you lived somewhere, say San Francisco or Seattle...heck even LA, where organic, high quality, "health food" with flavor, nutritional value, etc. was the rule rather than the exception, you might find that the relative cost goes down.

I do find the markup on high quality goods absurd.  I go to school in a large town in rural Washington state, and it is very hard to find anything other than the standard preservative-filled national brands when I am at school.

I wish I could answer why many Americans are satisfied with the food quality.  I don't think I could be if I was brought up in a place other than San Francisco, but then again, if tasteless crap is all I'd have known in that alternate situation, would I know what I was missing?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 18, 2005)

Another problem is that it takes time to find the best and cheapest places to buy food in a city. I can buy very reasonably priced vegetables, fruit, meat etc in Vancouver, but it has taken years to search out these places.

For people newly transplanted to some foreign city, they'll either shop at the large outlets, or in their own neighborhood, which is no guarantee of value or quality.


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## rasrave (Aug 19, 2005)

I just had this debate with a friend of mine....
We were eating some ridiculous-size ribeye steaks (bought at $4 at pound on sale) and commenting about the fact that in a restaurant these same steaks would have been $20 a piece instead of the $7/8 that we paid. We were scratching our heads about the fact that so many people insist on eating out with their families and then complain about being broke. To illustrate this, here are a few prices:
Bread: $2
Chicken: 10 pounds of legs and quarters:$4
Pretty much any vegetables: 40 cents a can or 3 for a dollar
Fish: Catfish is about $2.50 a pound, salmon is about $4 a pound, flounder (sole in Europe?) is $3 a pound
I can buy pork loin for $2 a pound, one loin is about $16 and enough to make 15 pork chops out of...
Having said that, I do find that things like milk and butter are a little steep, but overall it is far cheaper (it seems) to cook in rather than eat out.
My memories of the UK (although this dates back to 1993 last time) are of making no money and trying to stretch the ASDA shopping to its limit...but maybe food is getting cheaper there now?
I suspect that Fridgemagnet, who seems to bounce backwards and forwards from the UK to the States might be a better person to ask about all this...
Maybe the fact that I am in Mississippi makes a difference as opposed to the bigger metropolitan areas?
Most of my shopping is a combo of the local Vietnamese store (best for any vegetables), Walmart (I know, I know) and another chain called Savacenter for the meat as they are forever having sales it seems.
Hope this helps a little...


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## toggle (Aug 19, 2005)

those meat prices look good. however, you talk about canned veg, not fresh fruit and veg. I can get more fresh fruit and veg than a family of 4 can eat in a week for a tenner. And i'm not talking just the carrots and apples here. we have runner beans, courgettes, cherry tomatoes, bananas, lychees oranges and some other stuff this week. 

i eat more fruit and veg than meat.


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## lyra_k (Aug 19, 2005)

rasrave said:
			
		

> I just had this debate with a friend of mine....
> We were eating some ridiculous-size ribeye steaks (bought at $4 at pound on sale) and commenting about the fact that in a restaurant these same steaks would have been $20 a piece instead of the $7/8 that we paid. We were scratching our heads about the fact that so many people insist on eating out with their families and then complain about being broke. To illustrate this, here are a few prices:
> Bread: $2
> Chicken: 10 pounds of legs and quarters:$4
> ...



There seems to be a huge amount of regional variation.......  

I've talked to lots of friends locally about this and everyone seems to agree that eating out is generally cheaper than buying groceries and cooking at home (unless you stick to very basic canned/dried food).  I found the same thing when I lived in MD.

However, I'm grateful for all the tips, and am definitely going to check out the Korean supermarket next time I go shopping.

There are discount stores here (but not for fresh food), but they're so hit-and-miss.  I used to go to the dollar store to buy off-brand cleaning products, until I found out that they're actually more expensive than buying a larger brand-name one from a regular supermarket.      Plus if you spend all day driving around trying to find the best bargain for every little thing, it doesn't leave much time for anything else.

edited to add:  just for illustration, the three of us can eat an unlimited amount at any of the zillions of lunchtime buffets (Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Pizza, fried chicken, regular American) for $10 (for the three of us, under-3s are usually free).  There's always a great salad bar and often a nice sushi bar, and a huge variety of other stuff.


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## Ms T (Aug 19, 2005)

I am bemused by the canned veg references as well.  The only canned veg I eat here in the UK are tomatoes, and maybe straw mushrooms for thai curries.  

I get an organic veg box every week which contains more than enough for two people and costs around $15.

When we were in Florida in the Spring, the Australian guy who ran the B&B we stayed in in Key West was ranting about the quality of food in US supermarkets.   According to him, everything was processed to within an inch of its life and packed with sugar and fat.  I've only been to "gourmet" stores in the States, which were amazing, but very expensive. 

One of my friends is currently living in Ann Arbor.  She was amazed by the organic supermarket, but finds the supermarket bizarre.  Apparently her local superstore provides golf buggies so the obese people can whizz about the aisles!!!!


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## lyra_k (Aug 19, 2005)

Ms T said:
			
		

> packed with sugar and fat



Yup.  Corn syrup seems to be in absolutely everything!  And you REALLY have to check the ingredients lists on things as they're so misleading - something that masquerades as 100% fruit juice with added sugar in it, for instance.


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## Techno303 (Aug 19, 2005)

Ms T said:
			
		

> One of my friends is currently living in Ann Arbor.  She was amazed by the organic supermarket, but finds the supermarket bizarre.  Apparently her local superstore provides golf buggies so the obese people can whizz about the aisles!!!!



If she eats fish tell her to get round Monahan’s in the indoor market at Kerrytown. One of the best fishmongers in the Midwest.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 19, 2005)

Ms T said:
			
		

> I am bemused by the canned veg references as well.  The only canned veg I eat here in the UK are tomatoes, and maybe straw mushrooms for thai curries.



Why canned goods????

I work 65 hours a week.  I go home, open six cans, dump it into a pot, add some spices, a handful of macaroni, and a chopped tomato and end up with "homemade" Minestrone in about 15 minutes.


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## pseudonarcissus (Aug 19, 2005)

lyra_kitten said:
			
		

> There seems to be a huge amount of regional variation.......



I'm just resigned to spending half my pay cheque on food.  I'm a Whole Foods fan, so at least it's organic in the most part....it doesn't seem to go off very quickly though...

I have friends that love the farmers' markets, have you tried them?


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## JoMo1953 (Aug 19, 2005)

If you're in Southern AZ close to a big city hit the local Farmers Markets, only place to buy veggies.  Arizona has Costco Warehouses which have great "bulk" prices on staples, cleaning supplies, etc.  Skip the WalMart and try the Target Stores instead for staples (shame on you JC2!!!).  I don't know if they have "Trader Joes" in AZ, but you can get great cheese, wine and frozen foods; veggies are a little pricey but always top quality.  They have quite a wide selection of prepared foods that are top quality also.

And if you are shopping at a chain grocery store, they all have those "club cards" which really do add up to a lot of savings when you use the cards.  Also "clipping coupons" for certain items is a great way to shave a few bucks off the grocery bill.

All that being said, groceries in Southern CA are even more expensive but I would imagine we have alot more variety


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## D (Aug 20, 2005)

I'm just about convinced that there is no better place for produce in the United States than the SF Bay Area.

It is so easy to eat well here.  There are farmer's markets everywhere as well as cheap streetside markets (and not just in big cities, but smaller towns as well).

Fruits and vegetables of comparable quality are so much more expensive in New York.  

***

The omnipresence of corn syrup and hydrogenated oils is a major issue.

Check out this article on farm subsidies.


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## rasrave (Aug 20, 2005)

I should probably clarify as far as the canned goods issue is concerned.
On the one hand, I'm with Yuwipi Woman in the sense that I will snag some canned tomatoes or some canned corn on sale at Walmart. On the other hand, the reason that I mentioned the Vietnamese store is because their onions, fresh tomatoes, lettuce and many other "staples" are far cheaper and much fresher then anywhere else. My girlfriend (who is Asian) also buys a shedload of (very ominous-looking but) tasty fruits and vegetables, all fresh as well...oh and Mangoes too!
The coupons are also worth a mention as when I was married with 2 kids I would not have dreamed of going shopping without them. My old record of reducing a $140 shopping bill down to $89 has yet to be beaten I think!
Oh, and in the curry that I am making tonight, I will be using some of the canned coconut that I bought at the Vietnamese store for 65 cents.The price at Walmart is $1.39...it does pay to shop locally sometimes instead of Walmart!!
I think that there is something to be said about the range of prices depending on the region that you are in though. My friend has just come back from spending 4 months in Visalia (sp?) California and could not believe some of the prices there...and yes, not just gas too


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## Ms T (Aug 22, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Why canned goods????
> 
> I work 65 hours a week.  I go home, open six cans, dump it into a pot, add some spices, a handful of macaroni, and a chopped tomato and end up with "homemade" Minestrone in about 15 minutes.



Most people here only eat canned tomatoes, sweetcorn and beans.  You can buy tinned carrots/potatoes/mushrooms etc, but nobody I know eats them.


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## DialT0ne (Aug 29, 2005)

damn.. thats pretty expensive.


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