# Shit Londoners have to acknowledge about London when they live in London



## UrbaneFox (Apr 26, 2013)

My multicultural, all-inclusive area is no longer so (not that it really was anyway). It is full of delicatessens, tanning bars, estate agents, chain cafes, shitshacks, and tourists saying how fantastic it is.

I wanted to buy some smoked paprika and medium hot chilli powder this afternoon, but the Indian food shops have A) disappeared or B) Carry only a limited range of spices.

I shall have to go to Drummond Street to buy them.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 26, 2013)

that they have their very own London forum?


----------



## tony.c (Apr 26, 2013)

I lived in Hackney for 20 years. I haven't been back since I left to go back to North London about 20 years ago. I got a phonecall from an old friend of mine tonight bemoaning how Hackney has become a dual identity area with loads of trendies moving in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I lived in Hackney for 25 years. I haven't been back since I left to go back to North London about 20 years ago. I got a phonecall from an old friend of mine tonight bemoaning how Hackney has become a dual identity area with loads of trendies moving in.


a lot of hackney is in fact in north london: namely the bits in n1, n4 and n16

but there are a load of trendies moving in: the population of hackney's gone up by 20% in the last 10 years


----------



## Firky (Apr 26, 2013)

1" of snow and the city is fucked.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Apr 26, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> a lot of hackney is in fact in north london: namely the bits in n1, n4 and n16
> 
> but there are a load of trendies moving in: the population of hackney's gone up by 20% in the last 10 years


 
Only 20%? TBH it feels like much, much more...I feel claustophobic and am looking forward to moving away.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 26, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> a lot of hackney is in fact in north london: namely the bits in n1, n4 and n16


I know, but it's still counted as East London.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2013)

Rutita1 said:


> Only 20%? TBH it feels like much, much more...I feel claustophobic and am looking forward to moving away.


only 20%


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I know, but it's still counted as East London.


who by?


----------



## tony.c (Apr 26, 2013)

Most people I know regard Hackney as being East London, although Tottenham next door is recognised as North London. I suppose Hackney should be North-East London.
To be strictly accurate I'm in North-West London now.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 26, 2013)

That they are far more like to die from air pollution than people elsewhere in the UK.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Apr 26, 2013)

In response to the OP: Whilst peeps from out of town and abroad imagine that us Londoners are really lucky to have so much variety/opportunities/diversity in terms of the size of the place, we actually live quite small lives, each borough is like a small town or a couple of small towns so if you are lucky enough to find a job nearby you can actually not leave your area at all for months on end. Village like.


----------



## zenie (Apr 26, 2013)

Rutita1 said:


> In response to the OP: Whilst peeps from out of town and abroad imagine that us Londoners are really lucky to have so much variety/opportunities/diversity in terms of the size of the place, we actually live quite small lives, each borough is like a small town or a couple of small towns so if you are lucky enough to find a job nearby you can actually not leave your area at all for months on end. Village like.


 
Yeh, I know people who never leave their borough, seems a shame to me as there's a lot to be appreciated on our doorstep and if I'm paying through the nose to live somewhere I want to make the most of it.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

That it's filthy
There's too many sirens
There's a particularly noisy helicopter that likes to hover around
It's full of impatient people (who happen to be from all over the country/world, not just London)
It's horribly polluted (like most big cities with lots of traffic)


----------



## zenie (Apr 26, 2013)

There are a lot of angry people in London 
There are a lot of angry drivers in London 
Parking is a bit shit


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 26, 2013)

surprised nobody has mentioned boris yet...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

zenie said:


> There are a lot of angry people in London
> There are a lot of angry drivers in London
> Parking is a bit shit


 
See, whilst there are a lot of angry drivers, I don't think you hear nearly as much horn beeping as you do in other places.  Maybe Londoners are sensible enough to realise that beeping your horn isn't going to make the broken-down car in front move any faster


----------



## T & P (Apr 26, 2013)

It takes 90 minutes just get out of it by car/ coach.

Buses are full of shitheads.

The light pollution is so awful we're lucky we get to see the Moon (fucking massive right now by the way).


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

T & P said:


> The light pollution saw awful we're lucky we get to see the Moon (fucking massive right now by the way).


 
Maybe you've been looking out the wrong window?


----------



## clicker (Apr 26, 2013)

struggling to think of a negative....hhhmmmm it's a palaver getting to the coast and nobody queues at bus stops.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 26, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> surprised nobody has mentioned boris yet...


We don't like to talk about him.


----------



## smorodina (Apr 26, 2013)

people on the streets only acknowledge each other with an eye contact and - oh horror! - a smile on two occasions:

1. first snow of the year
2. when it's sunny for the first time after an especially miserable winter


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

gangs.

young kids being shot, and stabbed yards from where i live. happens regularly too.

depresses the shit out of me and it depresses the shit out of a hell of a lot of people whose behavior is affected by such gangs.


----------



## T & P (Apr 26, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe you've been looking out the wrong window?


 Unlikely. Unless you live in the very outskirts of Greater London and looking towards the country, you'll see a pitiful amount of stars in the night sky.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

house prices.

the masses and masses of middle class people who think it's so groovy and trendy to live here but run screaming to Guildford when their toddler hits primary school age.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

Crystal Palace F.C.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 26, 2013)

T & P said:


> The light pollution is so awful we're lucky we get to see the Moon (fucking massive right now by the way).


I can't see the moon. I'm looking North so maybe it hasn't moved round there yet. But I can see the North Star, the Plough and a few other of the brighter stars despite the light pollution.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

T & P said:


> Unlikely. Unless you live in the very outskirts of Greater London and looking towards the country, you'll see a pitiful amount of stars in the night sky.


 
You were talking about the moon, not the stars


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

the way that if a bus is on diversion, if you're waiting at a stop on the usual route, no one bothers to tell you that it's been diverted.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> the way that if a bus is on diversion, if you're waiting at a stop on the usual route, no one bothers to tell you that it's been diverted.


 
I like it when a bus stop is covered with the little yellow jacket saying it's not in use and there's people still sitting there waiting for a bus and glaring angrily when bus doesn't stop.


----------



## T & P (Apr 26, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You were talking about the moon, not the stars


 Oh I see. It was a bit of a hyperbole. Didn't come across well


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

T & P said:


> Oh I see. It was a bit of a hyperbole. Didn't come across well


----------



## el-ahrairah (Apr 26, 2013)

it's expensive, and horrifically full of people.


----------



## zenie (Apr 26, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> it's expensive, and horrifically full of people.


 
we need a good war


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

the price of a travel card.

jesus.

i'll take the two hour trip on the bus, thanks.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> the price of a travel card.


I've got my Freedom Pass now.


----------



## Cid (Apr 26, 2013)

Boris.


----------



## machine cat (Apr 26, 2013)

YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR A PINT!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Apr 26, 2013)

zenie said:


> we need a good war


 

We have one, against the poor. :/


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

machine cat said:


> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR A PINT!


the extra is because we get to drink it in the best city in the world


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 26, 2013)

It's a bit smelly.


----------



## mao (Apr 26, 2013)

£25 to entry the Lard Shard


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> the extra is because we get to drink it in the best city in the world


 
especially on a sunny day when you can sit in the garden and drink whilst inhaling all the the traffic pollution


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

it's so built up that a trip out into the country becomes like walking into a dream like paradise.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 26, 2013)

The pavements are dirty.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> especially on a sunny day when you can sit in the garden and drink whilst inhaling all the the traffic pollution


exactly, exactly. not a night out if you don't come back with black stubble, black hands, and black snot. what people don't know is that 99% of people in london are white


----------



## mao (Apr 26, 2013)

Leaves on the tracks
Congestion charge
Gastropubs
Brixton Village


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> exactly, exactly. not a night out if you don't come back with black stubble, black hands, and black snot. what people don't know is that 99% of people in london are white


 
God, I'd forgotten about the black snot.  Not had that since I stopped working.  

The City is great for giving you black snot


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

tiger cunting tiger


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

"this bus terminates here"


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> "this bus terminates here"


 
Driver changes on Streatham Hill bus garage when you're in a rush to catch a train at Streatham Hill Station


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Driver changes on Streatham Hill bus garage when you're in a rush to catch a train at Streatham Hill Station


brutal. i can feel my neck going tense just thinking about it.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> brutal. i can feel my neck going tense just thinking about it.


 
Yeah, to stop a couple of stops before the station to change drivers is just a total wind-up 

I resent either having to wait or jump on another bus and pay again for 2 stops


----------



## eatmorecheese (Apr 26, 2013)

Much as I love London, it's becoming a low income ant-hill servicing the global rich. A cleaning house with comparatively little trickle-down.

And Southern Railway is a heap of shit. Every slight incident shafts every train for a full day on the entire network. How?


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 26, 2013)

Mind The Gap has no connection whatsoever with the store.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Yeah, to stop a couple of stops before the station to change drivers is just a total wind-up
> 
> I resent either having to wait or jump on another bus and pay again for 2 stops


----------



## ferrelhadley (Apr 26, 2013)

One vast, soulless dormitory.


----------



## Balham (Apr 26, 2013)

That even though at times it might seem (or be like) a dump in parts, it is still home.


----------



## coley (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> the extra is because we get to drink it in the best city in the world



No, for that,you need an ice cold bottle of tiger beer and a seat on circular quay as the sun is setting


----------



## coley (Apr 26, 2013)

8115 said:


> The pavements are dirty.



Is that why I could never find the gold?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


>


 
I've just looked on google maps.  0.3 miles from the station is where the drivers change


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I've just looked on google maps. 0.3 miles from the station is where the drivers change


evil  blood boiling.


----------



## oryx (Apr 26, 2013)

Taking about 3 weeks and 47 phone calls/texts to arrange a simple meet-up with your mates.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 26, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> evil  blood boiling.


 
and then the drivers have the cheek to sit there and shuffle about and adjust their seats and get comfortable.  Inconsiderate bastards


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 26, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and then the drivers have the cheek to sit there and shuffle about and adjust their seats and get comfortable. Inconsiderate bastards


sick of it


----------



## Cid (Apr 27, 2013)

Where's circular quay?


----------



## Garek (Apr 27, 2013)

The fact that we have so very, very little control over our city. Local government is weak, foreign money corrupts and distorts all aspects of living. The fact that every single new housing development is private and that genuinely public spaces are shrinking. The fact that London has an incredibly long history countered with an incredibly short memory.

Edit: foreign as in global financial investment. Damn that original post looks wrong.


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Cid said:


> Where's circular quay?


Sydney, best city in the world, IMHO


----------



## Cid (Apr 27, 2013)

Why the fuck would I want to live in Australia?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Sydney, best city in the world, IMHO


 
Lots of people hate Sydney, same as London and any other city


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Sydney, best city in the world, IMHO


would rather live in Welling


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Lots of people hate Sydney, same as London and any other city



You have a choice, spend a week in Sydney or London, which would it be?


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> would rather live in Welling



Where's Welling?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> You have a choice, spend a week in Sydney or London, which would it be?


 
What time of the year is it coley?


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Where's Welling?


SE London.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> You have a choice, spend a week in Sydney or London, which would it be?


ideal situation for me if i won the lottery would be a five bedroom bastard house in bermondsey and a nice place in the country. winter, city. summer, country.

can only dream though huh


----------



## Cid (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> You have a choice, spend a week in Sydney or London, which would it be?


 
What about a year, or a decade?


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> ideal situation for me if i won the lottery would be a five bedroom bastard house in bermondsey and a nice place in the country. winter, city. summer, country.
> 
> can only dream though huh



Couldn't  live in a city, even Sydney, interesting places to visit, but live there? No thanks


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What time of the year is it coley?



You choose, Winter in parts of Oz can be 'interesting'


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> You choose, Winter in parts of Oz can be 'interesting'


 
Well if it was Spring in London, I'd choose London.  London has absolutely tonnes to do, walks, theatres, museums, massively long history, buildings 100s of years old etc.


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Well if it was Spring in London, I'd choose London.  London has absolutely tonnes to do, walks, theatres, museums, massively long history, buildings 100s of years old etc.


Aye, that would appeal to me and other tourists, but living there?  See others contributions


----------



## Cid (Apr 27, 2013)

Where do you live?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Aye, that would appeal to me and other tourists, but living there? See others contributions


 
You said 





> You have a choice, spend a week in Sydney or London, which would it be?


 so I'm responding to that


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You said  so I'm responding to that



Fair do's, but do Londoners really like the place? Or is it an automatic defensive response to criticism of their 'home turf'


----------



## Cid (Apr 27, 2013)

Whenever I've left I've missed it.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Fair do's, but do Londoners really like the place? Or is it an automatic defensive response to criticism of their 'home turf'


 
Yes, I do.  I was away for a long weekend a couple of weeks ago and was missing it within days.  Mind you, where I was was very quiet and boring, so it's easy to miss London in such circumstances, although the peace and quiet is nice for a couple of days, but a couple of days was enough.  If I was on a nice quiet beach with swaying palm trees above me, I could last for a few weeks, but then I'd want to go back


----------



## Cid (Apr 27, 2013)

The only problem I have with London is that you need to be constantly on it to afford rents etc... By no means unique to London though, it's actually far from the most expensive city to live in (Sydney, for example, is a lot worse).


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

There's definitely far too many people.  I don't remember roads/tubes being as busy as when I moved here in 1982.  Would prefer the population to go back to whatever those figures were.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> There's definitely far too many people. I don't remember roads/tubes being as busy as when I moved here in 1982. Would prefer the population to go back to whatever those figures were.


 
I think it was down to 6 million but that was a fall from about 8 million earlier in the century if I remember correctly. It's back to where it was.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

What happened between 1971 and 1981?  Was that when they were all pissing off to Australia?  To do with the recession?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Favelado said:


> I think it was down to 6 million but that was a fall from about 8 million earlier in the century if I remember correctly. It's back to where it was.


 
Just found figures on Wiki.  I obviously moved to London at the best time then


----------



## Favelado (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Just found figures on Wiki. I obviously moved to London at the best time then


 
Sao Paulo is an almost identical size to London with an extra 3 million stuffed in or New York is 30% smaller with an almost identical population. Imagine how much fun you'd have. I don't know how Mumbai measure up but presumably mental.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Sao Paulo is an almost identical size to London with an extra 3 million stuffed or New York is 30% smaller with an almost identical population. Imagine how much fun you'd have. I don't know how Mumbai measure up but presumably mental.


 
Wouldn't like at all 

hm, what about Hong Kong?  That's very tightly packed

*goes to check figures*


----------



## clicker (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Fair do's, but do Londoners really like the place? Or is it an automatic defensive response to criticism of their 'home turf'


 
Absolutely love the very bones of the place. I'm not sure many londoners would blindly defend it - in part because we'd spend our entire time doing nothing else ( it gets a lot of criticism ) and in part because we really believe deep down it's the best city in the universe and can't be arsed convincing others.

It's great to get out of the place and breathe deeply every so often, but I always look forward to returning to the lovable rogue. Maybe that's a test of how much you genuinely love somewhere? And bear in mind this thread is asking for negatives - each one could probably be countered with positives ten fold.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Wonder what was happening during these years that there was such fluctuations?  Disease, natural disasters?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What happened between 1971 and 1981? Was that when they were all pissing off to Australia? To do with the recession?
> 
> View attachment 31908


 
Pretty much continuation of the trend that started immediately after 1945 - people moving out to new towns / overspill estates in towns around London in the post war years, then on a less centrally planned scale towards the end of the 70s. Elements of 'white flight' in there too.

Alternatively, the 'London commuter belt' grew in size, but the administrative area didn't.

From the mid 80s, the yuppie factor meant that the inner city became more 'desirable' and some fairly substantial chunks of former industrial land (particularly some of the docks / surrounding areas) got redeveloped for housing.


----------



## Epona (Apr 27, 2013)

I don't particularly enjoy living in London, and wouldn't have chosen to live somewhere this built up, but when I moved here it was a compromise with my ex. There are things about London I really like - I love that it's very multicultural, I love the museums and galleries and events and good public transport. It's just that as a country girl, there aren't enough trees and open spaces, it's just not green enough and I think there's some part of me that will never get used to that aspect of urban life - although I've lived here for half my life, I still miss having a forest out back and loads of open space which is what I grew up with.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Wonder what was happening during these years that there was such fluctuations? Disease, natural disasters?
> 
> View attachment 31909


 
664-689 - The Yellow Plague

1340s - plague

Seems to be mostly plagues and fires (although no figures given for deaths in fires, although it looks like a large, but unreliable number died in the Great Fire of Suthwark)


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

clicker said:


> struggling to think of a negative....hhhmmmm it's a palaver getting to the coast and nobody queues at bus stops.


 
that the levels of air pollution inhibits certain cognitive abilities


----------



## Dan U (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Wouldn't like at all
> 
> hm, what about Hong Kong?  That's very tightly packed
> 
> *goes to check figures*



You'd need to just get the size of Hong Kong city itself, rather than Hong Kong as an area - when you include the new territories, the national parks etc only around a third of Hong Kong is actually Hong Kong if that makes sense. Iirc disclaimer.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Fair do's, but do Londoners really like the place? Or is it an automatic defensive response to criticism of their 'home turf'


Bits of it I love, bits I loathe.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Sydney, best city in the world, IMHO


Sydney shithole,trufax.


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Sydney shithole,trufax.



Horses for courses


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Bits of it I love, bits I loathe.


 That about sums everywhere up


----------



## Greebo (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> That about sums everywhere up


No it doesn't, some places make so little impression that they don't even leave me cold.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

clicker said:


> struggling to think of a negative....hhhmmmm it's a palaver getting to the coast and nobody queues at bus stops.


 
Do people queue at bus stops elsewhere?


----------



## clicker (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Do people queue at bus stops elsewhere?


 
I'm thinking of a rural idyll for my happy bus stop - country lane , two old dears and the hourly number 37 to the village. As opposed to South Circular, number 171 , 3241 school kids and the bus from hell.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

When I was a kid I seem to remember orderly queues at bus stops but I thought the lack of them nowadays was just times changing rather than a London thing.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Sao Paulo is an almost identical size to London with an extra 3 million stuffed in or New York is 30% smaller with an almost identical population. Imagine how much fun you'd have. I don't know how Mumbai measure up but presumably mental.


 
nearly went to sao Paulo so could have whinged on about that too if it had happened. Mumbai is.. well mental begins to describe it but falls short. needless to say I hated it


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

Greebo said:


> No it doesn't, some places make so little impression that they don't even leave me cold.


 
Brussels is a bit like that. it isn't really anything


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> When I was a kid I seem to remember orderly queues at bus stops but I thought the lack of them nowadays was just times changing rather than a London thing.


 
nah its a London thing.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Do people queue at bus stops elsewhere?


There's a relaxed queue for the 201 at stops where it's the only bus.  If it's a shared route stop, it's a free for all. Not as dog eat dog as that sounds, people with children or who look like they'll be in more need of a seat often get let on first.


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

clicker said:


> I'm thinking of a rural idyll for my happy bus stop - country lane , two old dears and the hourly number 37 to the village. As opposed to South Circular, number 171 , 3241 school kids and the bus from hell.


Still nice well behaved queues around here


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Still nice well behaved queues around here


 
and here too. sometimes both people fall over themselves trying to let the other person on first but it rarely comes to blows. and there is only one bus each way a day too so you would think the pressure to get a seat would be greater than where there is a bus every 7 minutes...


----------



## MillwallShoes (Apr 27, 2013)

Greebo said:


> There's a relaxed queue for the 201 at stops where it's the only bus, if it's a shared route stop, it's a free for all. Not as dog eat dog as that sounds, people with children or who look like they'll be in more need of a seat often get let on first.


exactly. sort of hang around the bus stop post and you'll be fine, even if people push in. there's little rudeness in my experience, just a sort of semi organised chaos.

they way some people talk to bus drivers though gets me down at times


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> Mumbai is.. well mental begins to describe it but falls short. needless to say I hated it


 
It's a difficult city to like. My dad was from Bombay and he went back to see relatives after living in England for nearly 50 years. He came home very depressed at the state of the place and how it had decayed since he'd been here.

I think everyone should see Bombay, but once is probably enough for most folk.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Still nice well behaved queues around here


 
Where are you, Coley?


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Where are you, Coley?



Semi Rural NE Northumberland


----------



## Greebo (Apr 27, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> exactly. sort of hang around the bus stop post and you'll be fine, even if people push in. there's little rudeness in my experience, just a sort of semi organised chaos.
> 
> they way some people talk to bus drivers though gets me down at times


Tbf the way that some bus drivers talk and behave at times is worse than anything the passengers have dished out in the last couple of stops.  For example, refusing to let people out at the front in spite of being able to see that the bus is so full that getting out at the back is impossible.


----------



## clicker (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> When I was a kid I seem to remember orderly queues at bus stops but I thought the lack of them nowadays was just times changing rather than a London thing.


 
quite possibly - must admit never travel by local bus in most cities other than here.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> nearly went to sao Paulo so could have whinged on about that too if it had happened. Mumbai is.. well mental begins to describe it but falls short. needless to say I hated it


 
The traffic jams in Sao Paulo are just unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. The city looks like Bladerunner crossed with The Bronx - which frankly is fine by me.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> When I was a kid I seem to remember orderly queues at bus stops but I thought the lack of them nowadays was just times changing rather than a London thing.


 

You can't really queue when half a dozen (or in the case of one bus stop in Brixton, eight buses go from the same stop)


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Tbf the way that some bus drivers talk and behave at times is worse than anything the passengers have dished out in the last couple of stops. For example, refusing to let people out at the front in spite of being able to see that the bus is so full that getting out at the back is impossible.


 
 Grrrrrrr ...

Was once on a packed bus at Baker Street, right near the front doors when a woman next to me needed to get off. The bus was packed solid between us a the middle doors but there was only me between her and the front doors. She asked the driver to let her out the front and the fucker wouldn't. They started rowing and in the end I pressed the emergency door release to let her out. The driver went absolutely fucking nuts. Proper screaming at me, and refused to drive on unless I got off too. WANKER.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You can't really queue when half a dozen (or in the case of one bus stop in Brixton, eight buses go from the same stop)


 
of course you can. one queue for each bus.

or like they do round where I used to live, one long queue and then those who are not waiting for the bus that pulls in just step to one side so those who want to get onto the bus can do so.

we used to be world leaders in queuing (in the non soviet parts of the world)... football, healthcare, schools, queuing... it will be cricket next .. mark my words...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> of course you can. one queue for each bus.
> 
> or like they do round where I used to live, one long queue and then those who are not waiting for the bus that pulls in just step to one side so those who want to get onto the bus can do so.
> 
> we used to be world leaders in queuing (in the non soviet parts of the world)... football, healthcare, schools, queuing... it will be cricket next .. mark my words...


 

Where does the queue go when it clashes into next bus stop?


----------



## tony.c (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Is that why I could never find the gold?


Mary, this London's a wonderful sight
with the people all working by day and by night.
They don't grow potatoes, or barley, or wheat
but there's gangs of them digging for gold in the street.
At least when I asked them that's what I was told,
so I just tried my hand at this digging for gold.
But for all that I found there I might as well be
where the Mountains of Mourne sweep down to the sea.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Where does the queue go when it clashes into next bus stop?


 
it curves back on itself in an orderly fashion with expressions of regret for anyone that has to move 3 foot to the left (or right as the case may be) in order to accommodate said expansion of queue space.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)




----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> of course you can. one queue for each bus.


 
You wouldn't know which queue was which unless you asked, and us Londoners don't talk to people in the streets.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> it curves back on itself in an orderly fashion with expressions of regret for anyone that has to move 3 foot to the left (or right as the case may be) in order to accommodate said expansion of queue space.


 
and how much of the pavement do you think would be left for pedestrians?


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

see this is what we have lost in the past century. the ability to stand in a line and be polite. imagine if 3bn 2nd foot and mouth had acted like this in the mombassu gorge. just milling about waiting for a fuzzy wuzzy to turn up and then a mad clamour to shoot him. No orderly ranks and quiet mutterings of "sarge is this B Co?.. No son its D Co, B Co is to your left.. now off you go now" were the order of the day. Firing by sections and volley fire only when the heathens were armed with anything more dangerous than a sharpened cucumber. This is how we became masters of queuing.*

*actually thinking about this in a bit more detail it really should be the irish who are good at queuing


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Wonder what was happening during these years that there was such fluctuations? Disease, natural disasters?
> 
> View attachment 31909


 
The really big reduction there will be when the Romans left and left the city undefended, I think.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> see this is what we have lost in the past century. the ability to stand in a line and be polite. imagine if 3bn 2nd foot and mouth had acted like this in the mombassu gorge. just milling about waiting for a fuzzy wuzzy to turn up and then a mad clamour to shoot him. No orderly ranks and quiet mutterings of "sarge is this B Co?.. No son its D Co, B Co is to your left.. now off you go now" were the order of the day. Firing by sections and volley fire only when the heathens were armed with anything more dangerous than a sharpened cucumber. This is how we became masters of queuing.*
> 
> *actually thinking about this in a bit more detail it really should be the irish who are good at queuing


 

Pingu.  Have you ever queued for a bus on Brixton High Street during the rush hour?

I think there's 16 bus routes that go along Brixton High Road, sharing between them THREE actual bus stops.  Distance from first bus stop to the third bus stop is probably around 300ft.  I'm not sure of width of pavement. 

Around 30,000 people use the tube station daily, and the majority of them, come the evening rush hour, will be heading for one of those three bus stops.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Pingu. Have you ever queued for a bus on Brixton High Street during the rush hour?


 
why no, I cant say I have had the pleasure of said experience.

If I am being totally honest I am also going to say I have no intention of doing so either  it sounds like the sort of situation that would see several people lying on the ground nursing sore parts of their bodies.

tbh sounds like you need more bus stops or a bit of a rethink on the old mass transit front.

eta.. or less people...


----------



## youngian (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Grrrrrrr ...
> 
> Was once on a packed bus at Baker Street, right near the front doors when a woman next to me needed to get off. The bus was packed solid between us a the middle doors but there was only me between her and the front doors. She asked the driver to let her out the front and the fucker wouldn't. They started rowing and in the end I pressed the emergency door release to let her out. The driver went absolutely fucking nuts. Proper screaming at me, and refused to drive on unless I got off too. WANKER.


 
Yes thats really shitty but most drivers are accommodating towards that sort of problem to be fair.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

youngian said:


> Yes thats really shitty but most drivers are accommodating towards that sort of problem to be fair.


 
Yep. The vast majority are sound.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> why no, I cant say I have had the pleasure of said experience.
> 
> If I am being totally honest I am also going to say I have no intention of doing so either  it sounds like the sort of situation that would see several people lying on the ground nursing sore parts of their bodies.
> 
> ...


 


Brixton is the end of the line, so will naturally be busier than other Zone 2 stations. 8 of the buses that go from the 1 bus stop all go up Brixton Hill. Not sure where else you'd put the stops considering the length of the High Road from the tube to the last bus stop 

You could make the stops further apart, so some of them don't stop on the High Road, but I don't think people with walking difficulties would appreciate that

Furthermore, when you have half a dozen buses arrive at once, and your bus is the last one, but you were at the head of the queue, you either wouldn't see it arrive behind the other 5, or you'd miss it trying to get to it


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> tbh sounds like you need more bus stops or a bit of a rethink on the old mass transit front.


 
snag is, if several of the bus routes are going in broadly the same direction (at least for the first few miles of route - bearing in mind that most bus journeys in London are relatively short and very few people would travel end to end on a bus route) many people can catch any one of (say) four or five different bus routes - so having fifteen separate bus stops would lead to people having to dash from one stop to another when a bus arrives.

quite apart from the practical question of how you would fit fifteen bus stops into any bit of pavement without making bus stops on each route about half a mile apart.

TfL do have a guideline for maximum number of buses per hour at calling at any one bus stop before you split it into separate stops, but recognise that there are some places you just can't fit the optimum number of bus stops in.

As for mass transit, there was the cross river tram scheme which boris cancelled...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> snag is, if several of the bus routes are going in broadly the same direction (at least for the first few miles of route - bearing in mind that most bus journeys in London are relatively short and very few people would travel end to end on a bus route) many people can catch any one of (say) four or five different bus routes - so having fifteen separate bus stops would lead to people having to dash from one stop to another when a bus arrives.
> 
> quite apart from the practical question of how you would fit fifteen bus stops into any bit of pavement without making bus stops on each route about half a mile apart.
> 
> ...


 
Exactly.  Those EIGHT bus buses that go up Brixton Hill share the same route all the way right up to St Leonard's Church in Streatham, a distance of around 2.5 miles, before any of them veers off


----------



## Balham (Apr 27, 2013)

Last time I waited for a bus on Brixton Road was in 196? with my Grandparents, going to London Zoo for the day. A bus came down the road and my Grandfather (Grandfather jokes must be like Dad jokes)said  '2B or not 2b' - alas it was a 3 (going to Camden Town though see now that the 3 would have done just as well).
Oh, the queue was quite orderly then.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Balham said:


> Last time I waited for a bus on Brixton Road was in 196? with my Grandparents, going to London Zoo for the day. A bus came down the road and my Grandfather (Grandfather jokes must be like Dad jokes)said '2B or not 2b' - alas it was a 3 (going to Camden Town though see now that the 3 would have done just as well).
> Oh, the queue was quite orderly then.


 
Not as many bus routes clogging up the streets and no thousands of people pouring out of a tube station as there wasn't one


----------



## pissflaps (Apr 27, 2013)

theres a bloke that drives the number three that told his controller to get fucked when he told him ditch a busload of people and head back to the west end while halfway up croxted road. what a champ.


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Is that why I could never find the gold?


nope, we've stashed it away to deter norverners. 
We ain't the global finance capital for nuffink


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Aye, that would appeal to me and other tourists, but living there? See others contributions


nope, there's literally so much to do in London, you'll never get round to doing all of it


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What happened between 1971 and 1981? Was that when they were all pissing off to Australia? To do with the recession?
> 
> View attachment 31908


between 1961-1981, there was a post war phenomenon that can be described as 'the flight to the greenbelt' which saw the population of the home counties rise by a corresponding amount, aided by the New Towns, and mass car ownership. I'm pretty sure that's where they went


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> you would think the pressure to get a seat would be greater than where there is a bus every 7 minutes...


I can't imagine having to wait a WHOLE SEVEN MINUTES for a bus....


----------



## salem (Apr 27, 2013)

The bus queue thing is fine. People have already explained the practical reasons for it and I find there is still generally an informal queue going on. I know that it's not uncommon for me to let someone on first if its clear they've been waiting longer and people do it to me too. Same with standing to the side while the queue at the door works its way on.


----------



## salem (Apr 27, 2013)

Rutita1 said:


> In response to the OP: Whilst peeps from out of town and abroad imagine that us Londoners are really lucky to have so much variety/opportunities/diversity in terms of the size of the place, we actually live quite small lives, each borough is like a small town or a couple of small towns so if you are lucky enough to find a job nearby you can actually not leave your area at all for months on end. Village like.


I find people from the Angel are the worst for this. An incredibly insular people who can't see a world beyond the utterly soulless Upper St.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> I can't imagine having to wait a WHOLE SEVEN MINUTES for a bus....


 
I start getting wound up if there's not one every few minutes


----------



## Balham (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Not as many bus routes clogging up the streets and no thousands of people pouring out of a tube station as there wasn't one


Then there were, 2 (went arcoss Brixton) 2B, 3, 37 (Acre Lane), 59 (Sundays), 95, 109, 133, 159, 159A (short lived route). I had to look those up so ther might be more (there must have been one or two more). Things, life etc, were just different then. One more often than not sees the past through rose tinted glasses. The queue realistically was orderly until the bus arrived, then it was a free for all!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

salem said:


> The bus queue thing is fine. People have already explained the practical reasons for it and I find there is still generally an informal queue going on. I know that it's not uncommon for me to let someone on first if its clear they've been waiting longer and people do it to me too. Same with standing to the side while the queue at the door works its way on.


 
What annoys me at Brixton is the inconveniently placed rubbish bins and telephone boxes getting in the way of the billions of people trying to get on the bus.


----------



## Reno (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> You have a choice, spend a week in Sydney or London, which would it be?


 
I've lived in both and it all depends on what you are like. If all you are into is beach and sun then Sydney is fine. If you are into the culture and diversity that a proper city like London offers, then its shite. People in Sydney always go on how much better their city is because of the sun and location and they bitch about London non-stop, but it masks a deep insecurity. Whatever happens in London culturally happens there on a much smaller scale and slightly crap a few years later. Sydney feels deeply provincial. Most of this large city is taken up with suburbia with a tiny city centre and after a while it felt claustrophobic and the rest of the world was awfully far away. When I arrived in Sydney I thought it was amazing, a few months later I was desperately bored and after a year I moved back to London.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Balham said:


> Then there were, 2 (went arcoss Brixton) 2B, 3, 37 (Acre Lane), 59 (Sundays), 95, 109, 133, 159, 159A (short lived route). I had to look those up so ther might be more (there must have been one or two more). Things, life etc, were just different then. One more often than not sees the past through rose tinted glasses. The queue realistically was orderly until the bus arrived, then it was a free for all!


 
So a lot less then, and the 16 I've mentioned, are only the ones that have a stop on the High Road, there's another 4 routes that don't have a stop immediately on the High Road.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Reno said:


> I've lived in both and it all depends on what you are like. If all you are only into is beach and sun then Sydney is fine. If you are into the culture and diversity that a proper city like London offers, then its shite. People in Sydney always go on how much better their city is because of the sun and location and they bitch about London non-stop, but it masks a deep insecurity. Whatever happens in London culturally happens there on a much smaller scale and slightly crap a few years later. Sydney feels deeply provincial. Most of this large city is taken up with suburbia with a tiny city centre and after a while the rest of the world seems awfully far away. When I arrived in Sydney I thought it was amazing, a few months later when I realised that I wasn't cut out to be a beach bum I was desperately bored and after a year I moved back to London.


 
I've got some friends in Sydney at the moment (actually, I think they've just gone to Ayr) and they loved it.  They are from Dublin though, and would of course be seeing it through rose-tinted glasses and have been hugely enjoying the sun and sea (and went on a diving course in Thailand prior to that), but I bet if they spent a few months there, they'd get bored pretty quickly


----------



## Reno (Apr 27, 2013)

People in London are less courteous than they used to be and there are many places where I think people should stand in line, but I'm not bothered that people don't queue at bust stops anymore. Most of the time people get on in an reasonably orderly fashion and I'm a bit too antsy to stand in line for long when I get bored.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Reno said:


> People in London are less courteous than they used to be and there are many places where I think people should stand in line, but I'm not bothered that people don't queue at bust stops anymore. Most of the time people get on in an reasonably orderly fashion and I'm a bit too antsy to stand in line for long when I get bored.


 
Oh I agree with queues completely, just not for buses in London.  Totally impractical, unless you're at some little used stop in the suburbs where there's only one bus on the route

I've just come across this.  It's quite addictive    The guy's done loads of bus routes


----------



## Balham (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> So a lot less then, and the 16 I've mentioned, are only the ones that have a stop on the High Road, there's another 4 routes that don't have a stop immediately on the High Road.


Goodness, sixteen !  Off to do some research now to check what I've found from years gone by (bit quiet here at the moment so . . . )


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Balham said:


> Goodness, sixteen ! Off to do some research now to check what I've found from years gone by (bit quiet here at the moment so . . . )


 
20 if you add the other buses that don't have stops on that little stretch of road (ie. the 37 and a P number and a couple of others)


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> So a lot less then, and the 16 I've mentioned, are only the ones that have a stop on the High Road, there's another 4 routes that don't have a stop immediately on the High Road.


 
Part of this is because a lot of bus routes have been shortened in the last few years (partly to improve reliability - shorter routes mean that traffic delays in one bit don't have effects all the way across London and allow a higher proportion of 'recovery time' at the end of each route.  Longer routes were very prone to having buses 'turned short' of the remote end/s of the route) -and this means there's now more routes overlapping in places like Brixton - e.g. the 159 and 250 are sections of what used to be the 159.

in 1970 for example, the 109 ran Purley - Victoria Embankment, the 159 ran West Hampstead - Thornton Heath (and on to Croydon daytimes), the 2B from Golders Green to Crystal Palace, the 37 from Peckham to Hounslow and so on.  That having been said, some routes used to run in overlapping sections back then.

I'm also faintly aware that Brixton shouldn't really have been the southern terminus of the Victoria line - think the original plans had the line continuing in the general direction of Croydon.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Part of this is because a lot of bus routes have been shortened in the last few years (partly to improve reliability - shorter routes mean that traffic delays in one bit don't have effects all the way across London and allow a higher proportion of 'recovery time' at the end of each route. Longer routes were very prone to having buses 'turned short' of the remote end/s of the route) -and this means there's now more routes overlapping in places like Brixton - e.g. the 159 and 250 are sections of what used to be the 159.
> 
> in 1970 for example, the 109 ran Purley - Victoria Embankment, the 159 ran West Hampstead - Thornton Heath (and on to Croydon daytimes), the 2B from Golders Green to Crystal Palace, the 37 from Peckham to Hounslow and so on. That having been said, some routes used to run in overlapping sections back then.
> 
> I'm also faintly aware that Brixton shouldn't really have been the southern terminus of the Victoria line - think the original plans had the line continuing in the general direction of Croydon.


 
I remember when the 109 ran across Westminster Bridge and the 159 ran across Lambeth Bridge, or was it the other way around?  I can never remember 

The 59 used to stop just after Blackfriars as well


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I remember when the 109 ran across Westminster Bridge and the 159 ran across Lambeth Bridge, or was it the other way around? I can never remember
> 
> The 59 used to stop just after Blackfriars as well


 
the 109 used to cross Blackfriars Bridge, along Victoria Embankment and then cross Westminster Bridge - or vice versa.   Think the 109 was the last route to do this - it had been the arrangement for many of south London's tram routes.







The 159 was traditionally Lambeth Bridge, but I think it had a phase of using Westminster Bridge at weekends.


----------



## Balham (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> 20 if you add the other buses that don't have stops on that little stretch of road (ie. the 37 and a P number and a couple of others)


Then my ten is pretty abysmal! Added to that the 159A was a short lived route 29 Jan 1964 to 31 October 1970, plus the 59 replaced the 159 on Sunday, haven't done too well have I.

If anyone else wants to look ..... try this site.

Try Green Line, 706, 708, 710 from years ago.

Full SP on the 109 here  and the 159 here .


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Fair do's, but do Londoners really like the place? Or is it an automatic defensive response to criticism of their 'home turf'



Of course 

We thought about moving out to a commuter town or Bristol but decided we didn't want to leave. 

London's an amazing place.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

Balham said:


> Then my ten is pretty abysmal! Added to that the 159A was a short lived route 29 Jan 1964 to 31 October 1970, plus the 59 replaced the 159 on Sunday, haven't done too well have I.
> 
> If anyone else wants to look ..... try this site.
> 
> ...


 
The other strand is the frequencies buses ran at.  I think the 109 was scheduled for a bus about every 2 minutes between Kennington and Croydon at peak hours in the 50s.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Balham said:


> Then my ten is pretty abysmal! Added to that the 159A was a short lived route 29 Jan 1964 to 31 October 1970, plus the 59 replaced the 159 on Sunday, haven't done too well have I.
> 
> If anyone else wants to look ..... try this site.
> 
> ...


 

They're great sites.  Was looking at them earlier and still got the 109 and 159 and bridges mixed up


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

what you guys really need is some sort of subterranean transit system.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Pingu said:


> what you guys really need is some sort of subterranean transit system.


 
That's an excellent idea Pingu.  Where routes should we have?


----------



## free spirit (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> When I was a kid I seem to remember orderly queues at bus stops but I thought the lack of them nowadays was just times changing rather than a London thing.


it's a london thing. 

Similarly standing at the bar elsewhere in the country there's a natural queue mechanism kicks in if the bar person gets the order wrong and tries to serve the wrong person next, they'll usually point them in the direction of the person who ought to be served next IME. At least they will if you've not been obviously projecting your london me me me thing over the bar trying to get served before your turn, which the bar person has decided to ignore deliberately


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

Queues at bars??????? 

You taking the piss?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> The other strand is the frequencies buses ran at. I think the 109 was scheduled for a bus about every 2 minutes between Kennington and Croydon at peak hours in the 50s.


 
correction, 52 buses per hour in peak direction between Brixton and Kennington (1955 schedules).  That's just on the 109...


----------



## free spirit (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Queues at bars???????
> 
> You taking the piss?


not an actual queue, just people stood at the bar happy enough to all get served in the order they reached the bar in, rather than some pushy twat trying to get served first.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

free spirit said:


> not an actual queue, just people stood at the bar happy enough to all get served in the order they reached the bar in, rather than some pushy twat trying to get served first.


 
Ah ok. That happens here too though. Every now and then some dick will try it on but generally it's reasonably ordered.


----------



## alsoknownas (Apr 27, 2013)

I have to admit that many of the things that made Hackney so special seem to be bleeding away .


----------



## alsoknownas (Apr 27, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Sao Paulo is an almost identical size to London with an extra 3 million stuffed in or New York is 30% smaller with an almost identical population. Imagine how much fun you'd have. I don't know how Mumbai measure up but presumably mental.


Just got back from Mumbai - can confirm - mental.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Queues at bars???????
> 
> You taking the piss?


 
Of course. You don't actually stand in a line, but a decent punter, combined with a good barman, will know who arrived at the bar first

(should have refreshed page, free spirit's already explained)


----------



## free spirit (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Ah ok. That happens here too though. Every now and then some dick will try it on but generally it's reasonably ordered.


fair enough, tbh it's probably mostly students everywhere who don't follow the etiquette.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> correction, 52 buses per hour in peak direction between Brixton and Kennington (1955 schedules). That's just on the 109...


 
Blimey 

So even though there were fewer buses, they were obviously much more frequent


----------



## salem (Apr 27, 2013)

free spirit said:


> it's a london thing.
> 
> Similarly standing at the bar elsewhere in the country there's a natural queue mechanism kicks in if the bar person gets the order wrong and tries to serve the wrong person next, they'll usually point them in the direction of the person who ought to be served next IME. At least they will if you've not been obviously projecting your london me me me thing over the bar trying to get served before your turn, which the bar person has decided to ignore deliberately


That happens all the time in the bars and clubs I go to in London.


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Reno said:


> I've lived in both and it all depends on what you are like. If all you are only into is beach and sun then Sydney is fine. If you are into the culture and diversity that a proper city like London offers, then its shite. People in Sydney always go on how much better their city is because of the sun and location and they bitch about London non-stop, but it masks a deep insecurity. Whatever happens in London culturally happens there on a much smaller scale and slightly crap a few years later. Sydney feels deeply provincial. Most of this large city is taken up with suburbia with a tiny city centre and after a while it felt claustrophobic and the rest of the world was awfully far away. When I arrived in Sydney I thought it was amazing, a few months I was desperately bored and after a year I moved back to London.



Aye, but if you like a relaxed pace and don't need a lot of culture than Sydney has the edge, though I like Perth as well, saying that,I can only speak as a tourist as far as these places go.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

free spirit said:


> fair enough, tbh it's probably mostly students everywhere who don't follow the etiquette.


 
It probably depends on the pub too. I was in a place off the Old Kent Road a couple of weeks ago and the order of service seemed to be by who was known best to the barman. Didn't make a fuss though, the locals didn't seem like they'd appreciate it.


----------



## Cid (Apr 27, 2013)

coley said:


> Aye, but if you like a relaxed pace and don't need a lot of culture than Sydney has the edge, though I like Perth as well, saying that,I can only speak as a tourist as far as these places go.


 
So it's great if you're the kind of person normally to be found in Godalming?


----------



## salem (Apr 27, 2013)

Yeah, that's how I know it generally works in London because I get really pissed off when people don't follow the etiquette. Or the barman is totally clueless. Even then it's usually because the bar is long or has 2+ sides to be served combined with lots of people drinking at the bar.

Sort of thing that sees me buggering off to another bar muttering under my breath and never coming back.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 27, 2013)

UrbaneFox said:


> My multicultural, all-inclusive area is no longer so (not that it really was anyway). It is full of delicatessens, tanning bars, estate agents, chain cafes, shitshacks, and tourists saying how fantastic it is.
> 
> I wanted to buy some smoked paprika and medium hot chilli powder this afternoon, but the Indian food shops have A) disappeared or B) Carry only a limited range of spices.
> 
> I shall have to go to Drummond Street to buy them.


Paprika and chili powder are basics of any supermarket anywhere. I don't really understand your problem.  I can even get them here in Bramley.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> Paprika and chili powder are basics of any supermarket anywhere.


 
_Smoked_ paprika is slightly less common, tbf.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> _Smoked_ paprika is slightly less common, tbf.


I've managed to get it in the past.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 27, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> I've managed to get it in the past.


 
Sure. Probably not at the local shops though, right?


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Sure. Probably not at the local shops though, right?


You're lucky to get brown bread or anything at all in our local shops. (One of the guys is a right snob and doesn't believe the lumpens here deserve anything like that and that it wont sell. Which is why when he does get the odd loaf in people practically dive on it and devour it between themselves).


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Blimey
> 
> So even though there were fewer buses, they were obviously much more frequent


 
Peak hour buses from Brixton Station, 1955

2 / 2A (via Stockwell) - 21 buses per hour
3 (via Kennington) - 18 bph
35 (via Camberwell) - 18 bph
37 (via Acre Lane / Tulse Hill) - 14 bph
45 (via Camberwell / Stockwell) - 17 bph
50 (via Stockwell) - 9 bph
59A (via Kennington) - 6 bph
95 (via Kennington) - 14 bph
109 (via Kennington) - 52 bph
133 (via Kennington) - 24 bph
159 (via Kennington) - 15 bph
171 (via Kennington) - 9 bph

I make that 138 buses per hour (or more than 2 buses per minute) up to Kennington

not counting the Green Line coach routes.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Peak hour buses from Brixton Station, 1955
> 
> 2 / 2A (via Stockwell) - 21 buses per hour
> 3 (via Kennington) - 18 bph
> ...


 

Excellent work Puddy. 

Now how many go through per hour nowadays?


----------



## tony.c (Apr 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Peak hour buses from Brixton Station, 1955


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2013)

tony.c said:


>


 
somehow we got on to the subject of what Brixton bus services were like before the Victoria Line happened.

i'm not quite sure how, but urban is like that...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> somehow we got on to the subject of what Brixton bus services were like before the Victoria Line happened.
> 
> i'm not quite sure how, but urban is like that...


 
Someone derailed the thread


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Cid said:


> So it's great if you're the kind of person normally to be found in Godalming?



Couldn't tell you, never been there AFAIK


----------



## coley (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Someone derailed the thread



Or moved it into the bus lane


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Someone derailed the thread


----------



## UrbaneFox (Apr 27, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> Paprika and chili powder are basics of any supermarket anywhere. I don't really understand your problem.  I can even get them here in Bramley.


 
But in a faint attempt to support the local community there are certain things that I will not buy at Waitrose.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Apr 27, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> _Smoked_ paprika is slightly less common, tbf.


 
Precisely. There are several strengths of chilli powder, too.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 28, 2013)

UrbaneFox said:


> But in a faint attempt to support the local community there are certain things that I will not buy at Waitrose.


Waitrose. Oh dear.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 28, 2013)

UrbaneFox said:


> But in a faint attempt to support the local community there are certain things that I will not buy at Waitrose.


 
I do something similar. In our local shopping parade there are two Lebanese and an Indian supermarket. All sell pretty much the same stuff except the Leb guys both have Halal butchers at the back of the stores. When I go shopping I go to each of them, buying milk and eggs at one, fruit and veg at another, and maybe herbs and spices at the next, just to spread it around and give them all a bit of business. However I'm currently boycotting one of the Lebanese gaffs after realising his aubergines are £1.50/kg more expensive than the other places!


----------



## UrbaneFox (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm going to give the Turkish place a wider berth after one of their staff escorted me around the shop, grabbing my arm and shopping basket and blocking my way to the back of the shop. I presume my walking stick makes me a liability.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Filthy limescale-filled London water is the worst in Britain.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Filthy limescale-filled London water is the worst in Britain.


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/official-london-tap-water-is-the-best-in-britain-6835465.html

it seems you're talking shit


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Filthy limescale-filled London water is the worst in Britain.


http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/about/annual-report/2011/london&se.pdf

it is apparent you're talking shit


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/official-london-tap-water-is-the-best-in-britain-6835465.html


 
Has there been some kind of drastic change then? At home, I could go maybe 5 years without having to clean the limescale out of the kettle. In London it needed doing every couple of months.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/about/annual-report/2011/london&se.pdf
> 
> it is apparent you're talking shit


 
Not about limescale I'm not. The water is full of it in London. It's disgusting.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Has there been some kind of drastic change then? At home, I could go maybe 5 years without having to clean the limescale out of the kettle. In London it needed doing every couple of months.


and this means that london tap water is filthy how? you know bath, you do know it's called that because of the spas there? people travel hundreds of miles to visit places where they have mineral-rich water. we have it in london and you think it's the worst in britain. this says a lot more about you - and none of it good - than it does about the london water.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Has there been some kind of drastic change then? At home, I could go maybe 5 years without having to clean the limescale out of the kettle. In London it needed doing every couple of months.


 
Soft water doesn't = clean.

But I can't recall _ever_ having to clean limescale out of the kettle.

"Every couple of months" .... are you sure?


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> and this means that london tap water is filthy how? you know bath, you do know it's called that because of the spas there? people travel hundreds of miles to visit places where they have mineral-rich water. we have it in london and you think it's the worst in britain. this says a lot more about you - and none of it good - than it does about the london water.


 
I think it's horrible when there are flakes of limescale in the kettle even though you've just cleaned it. Flakes of it appearing in a glass of water you've just run too from time-to-time. If you've got visible detritus in the water than of course it's dirty.  London tap water tastes bitter too.

People do not travel hundreds of miles to taste limescale-ridden tap water. They may visit a nice natural bath or spa of course.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Soft water doesn't = clean.
> 
> But I can't recall _ever_ having to clean limescale out of the kettle.
> 
> "Every couple of months" .... are you sure?


 
Yeah, sadly I moved round more than I wanted to in London and it was a problem in a number of different properties. Okay - I'm saying i think hard water is filthy then. I like soft dirty water with no limescale in it and my reference to filth is a reference to the off-white scales that I'd never even really seen before hitting the capital.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> I think it's horrible when there are flakes of limescale in the kettle even though you've just cleaned it. Flakes of it appearing in a glass of water you've just run too from time-to-time. If you've got visible detritus in the water than of course it's dirty. London tap water tastes bitter too.
> 
> People do not travel hundreds of miles to taste limescale-ridden tap water. They may visit a nice natural bath or spa of course.


what you're talking about rather ignorantly is the fact that stuff dissolved in water precipitates when it's boiled. you have acknowledged that 'at home' the same thing happens, only at a slower pace. stuff that appears in a glass of water has probably come from your tap rather than from thames water: things dissolved in water will precipitate, albeit at a slower pace, even when it's cold. no one afaik has died in recent decades from drinking london water. you're simply overly fastidious and something of a prig to boot.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> London tap water tastes bitter too.


 
 Loada pish, I'm afraid. 

The great tap water taste test. 



> 1. Severn Trent Water
> 2. Anglian Water
> 3. Thames Water
> 4. Dwr Cymru Welsh Water
> ...


----------



## peterkro (Apr 29, 2013)

Don't go to Glos. if you 





Favelado said:


> Yeah, sadly I moved round more than I wanted to in London and it was a problem in a number of different properties. Okay - I'm saying i think hard water is filthy then. I like soft dirty water with no limescale in it and my reference to filth is a reference to the off-white scales that I'd never even really seen before hitting the capital.


Anywhere even vaguely near the Cotswolds is going to beat London hands down in the hard water stakes.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Yeah, sadly I moved round more than I wanted to in London and it was a problem in a number of different properties. Okay - I'm saying i think hard water is filthy then. I like soft dirty water with no limescale in it and my reference to filth is a reference to the off-white scales that I'd never even really seen before hitting the capital.


 
You sure you weren't just living in dirty houses with plumbing issues?


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no one afaik has died in recent decades from drinking london water.


 
I hope you choke on a giant flake of yummy limescale.


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Has there been some kind of drastic change then? At home, I could go maybe 5 years without having to clean the limescale out of the kettle. In London it needed doing every couple of months.


I'm simply very surprised by that. At most, i only need to do mine 1x per year


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Well, I've only got anecdotal evidence. I like Dave Gorman. He gets me if even the pesky surveys with all their annoying facts don't.

http://gormano.blogspot.com.es/2009/05/limescale.html



> I love living in London. It makes me very happy. If pushed, the one thing I can think of that lets London down is the water. It's hard. I was used to soft water before moving to London. I was used to soap that lathered with ease and a kettle that wasn't in permanent need of descaling.
> 
> I hate limescale. If you've only ever lived with soft water you probably don't know what I'm going on about. If you've only ever lived with hard water you probably just accept limescale as a fact of life and struggle to see how I can actually _hate_ it. But I do. And I reckon anyone who's lived with soft water and then moved to a hard water area probably does too.
> 
> There are products that help to get rid of it... but they only ever bring temporary relief. A day or two later and limescale will have crept back to your showerhead, your taps and anywhere else that water reaches. Got a glass shower door? In a hard water area it'll never, ever, ever look anywhere near as nice as it did when it was new. Once water hits it, no matter what you do to try and prevent it, hard water will leave its mark. You show me a Londoner with a sparkling clean, limescale free bathroom and I'll show you someone who doesn't wash. Their taps might be glistening, but believe me, so are their armpits.


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> I'm simply very surprised by that. At most, i only need to do mine 1x per year


 
That often? I'm gonna check the kettle when I get home.

Also, soft water is minging for bathing and showering in.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> That often? I'm gonna check the kettle when I get home.
> 
> Also, soft water is minging for bathing and showering in.


 
No it isn't. You can't get a bubble-bath going in hard water!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> No it isn't. You can't get a bubble-bath going in hard water!


you're full of shit.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you're full of shit.


 
In hard water all the bubbles disappear really quickly and you get less of them going in the first place. They never filmed a Radox advert in Camberwell I promise you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> In hard water all the bubbles disappear really quickly and you get less of them going in the first place. They never filmed a Radox advert in Camberwell I promise you.


i seem to prove you wrong on a regular basis then because i never have any difficulty with this.


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2013)

Welsh soft water is sooo much nicer than the limescale-addled London stuff. 

Facts! http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa082403a.htm


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i seem to prove you wrong on a regular basis then because i never have any difficulty with this.


 
It's a lovely image. Any chance of a photo?


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> No it isn't. You can't get a bubble-bath going in hard water!


 
Down here we like to wash ourselves in water that leaves us squeaky clean and doesn't struggle to get the soap off, leaving you feeling all slippery.

Bubble baths are for girls and northern wankers!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> It's a lovely image. Any chance of a photo?


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

You look smashing to be fair.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

editor said:


> Welsh soft water is sooo much nicer than the limescale-addled London stuff.
> 
> Facts! http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa082403a.htm


your link does not mention wales. fact.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Apr 29, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> See, whilst there are a lot of angry drivers, I don't think you hear nearly as much horn beeping as you do in other places. Maybe Londoners are sensible enough to realise that beeping your horn isn't going to make the broken-down car in front move any faster


 
there is a lot less honking in the UK in general. It's nice.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 29, 2013)

I've lived in hard-water areas all my life and soft water freaks me out. It feels slimy. You put a tiny drop of washing up liquid in it and you're up to your elbows in suds. Soft water baths are all slippery and wrong. I like water with a bit of grip


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Yeah, you must love having a permanent film of shite all over your bathrooms and half of your kitchen appliances. Look what all the poor provincials are missing out on.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Yeah, you must love having a permanent film of shite all over your bathrooms and half of your kitchen appliances. Look what all the poor provincials are missing out on.


don't judge everyone else by your own unhygenick standards


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Yeah, you must love having a permanent film of shite all over your bathrooms and half of your kitchen appliances. Look what all the poor provincials are missing out on.


 
Don't forget though, everyone in London employs cleaners to sort that shit out.

If I found limescale in any of our appliances she'd be on a plane back to fucking Krakow quicker than you can say "exploitation".


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> No it isn't. You can't get a bubble-bath going in hard water!


Yes you bloody can!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> Yes you bloody can!


it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> Yes you bloody can!


 
Been lathering up with the Matey again, Jezza?

You should be made an honorary Scouser.


----------



## Ted Striker (Apr 29, 2013)

Out of interest, what bubble baths do my hard water bethren use? I'd love a suddsy bath, but it's hard with the radox etc shite I've used thus far...


----------



## Favelado (Apr 29, 2013)

Ted Striker said:


> Out of interest, what bubble baths do my hard water bethren use? I'd love a suddsy bath, but it's hard with the radox etc shite I've used thus far...


 
You should go round Pickman's or Streathamite's place. There's more foam than at Pacha Ibiza at 4 a.m. on a Saturday night.


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 29, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Been lathering up with the Matey again, Jezza?
> 
> You should be made an honorary Scouser.


<tilts nose disdainfully>
all pricey designer-label suds round our way, _actually _


Pickman's model said:


> it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 29, 2013)




----------



## Ted Striker (Apr 29, 2013)

You must be thinking of Pacha Marrakech. Pacha Ibiza hasn't had a foam party for as long as I can remember.


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> your link does not mention wales. fact.


But there is an abundance of soft water in Wales. And that is a fact.


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 29, 2013)

Favelado said:


> You should go round Pickman's or Streathamite's place. There's more foam than at Pacha Ibiza at 4 a.m. on a Saturday night.


As a Londoner, I'm _far too unfriendly_ to operate an open door policy


----------



## ska invita (Apr 29, 2013)

eatmorecheese said:


> And Southern Railway is a heap of shit. Every slight incident shafts every train for a full day on the entire network. How?


as Reginald Hunter says, the UK has the best bus replacement service in the world


----------



## Winot (Apr 29, 2013)

clicker said:


> nobody queues at bus stops.



Most bus stops in Brixton (e.g.) have 4-5 buses stopping at them and there isn't room for 4-5 queues.


----------



## Winot (Apr 29, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You can't really queue when half a dozen (or in the case of one bus stop in Brixton, eight buses go from the same stop)



Minnie got there first.


----------



## komodo (Apr 30, 2013)

If you want to experience the almost vanished orderly London bus queue I suggest you to the bus stops just outside London Bridge station in the mornings. It's quite relaxing.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 30, 2013)

komodo said:


> If you want to experience the almost vanished orderly London bus queue I suggest you to the bus stops just outside London Bridge station in the mornings. It's quite relaxing.


Or Waterloo station. But it's probably because they aren't Londoners, but commuters from outside London.


----------



## Firky (Apr 30, 2013)

editor said:


> But there is an abundance of soft water in Wales. And that is a fact.


 
I am mega skeptical about that map, I saw it on the BBC last night and it says I live in a medium water area and I don't. I live in a hard water area (mains), not sure what it was when my water was sourced from a spring.

Worst water in the world to drink from the tap: Portsmouth, it tastes of chalk, rock and metal.


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2013)

Firky said:


> I am mega skeptical about that map, I saw it on the BBC last night and it says I live in a medium water area and I don't. I live in a hard water area (mains), not sure what it was when my water was sourced from a spring.


It very much depends on where your water is actually coming from though. Birmingham steals Welsh water, for example.


----------



## mod (Apr 30, 2013)

We seem to be fair game as legitimate targets for people pissed off with our government(s) and their foreign policies. 

Bombed from the air in WW1 and WW2 and consistently on the ground since the early 70s…

List of terrorist incidents in London
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_London


----------



## mod (Apr 30, 2013)

Yet another local boozer being converted into more 'luxury' flats. I find this one particularly painful as theres three examples within a 5 minute walk from my flat in New Cross.


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 30, 2013)

The denses population in the country and yet we live the most atomised lives in the UK*

*I predict


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 30, 2013)

Cycling is an extreme sport.


----------



## Utopia (Apr 30, 2013)

editor said:


> It very much depends on where your water is actually coming from though. Birmingham steals Welsh water, for example.


 
From Clywedog reservoir to be precise....its my old neck of the woods and in our youth we'd cycle up there and take great delight in pissing in the water especially for the Brummies!


----------



## Remus Harbank (Apr 30, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> Do people queue at bus stops elsewhere?


Here's one funny thing I've observed: Outside commuter stations like Waterloo, country bumpkins who commute into London actually queue for their buses


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 30, 2013)

editor said:


> It very much depends on where your water is actually coming from though. Birmingham steals Welsh water, for example.


 
They do pay for it though, tbf.

And it's not like Wales hasn't got enough spare rain!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 30, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Just found figures on Wiki. I obviously moved to London at the best time then


 
Minnie moves in, 2 million move out.

Don't take it personally or owt.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 30, 2013)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Minnie moves in, 2 million move out.
> 
> Don't take it personally or owt.


 
but why have more moved in?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 30, 2013)

Turns out you wern't as bad as they thought you'd be.

Bet north London saw the biggest increase of returnees though


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 30, 2013)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Turns out you wern't as bad as they thought you'd be.
> 
> Bet north London saw the biggest increase of returnees though


 
Good, they can stay there


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> They do pay for it though, tbf.


Nothing compared to the price Wales had to pay to supply Liverpool's water.


> In 1956, a private bill sponsored by Liverpool City Council was brought before Parliament to develop a water reservoir from the Tryweryn Valley. The development would include the flooding of Capel Celyn.
> 
> By obtaining authority via an Act of Parliament, Liverpool City Council would not require planning consent from the relevant Welsh local authorities. This, together with the fact that the village was one of the last Welsh-only speaking communities, ensured that the proposals became deeply controversial.
> 
> ...


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 30, 2013)

editor said:


> Nothing compared to the price Wales had to pay to supply Liverpool's water.


 
It's unfortunate but invariably the price someone has to pay for improvements in infrastructure. When reservoirs are built, people get shafted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambleton,_Rutland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haweswater_Reservoir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielder_Water
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/eastmidlands/series4/east_midlands_reservoirs.shtml


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 30, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Well, I've only got anecdotal evidence. I like Dave Gorman. He gets me if even the pesky surveys with all their annoying facts don't.
> 
> http://gormano.blogspot.com.es/2009/05/limescale.html


 
Gorman lives in north London, parts of which have notoriously 'ard water.
That doesn't, however, mean that all of London is the same, as some water is still drawn locally in most of London, not just from the London ring mains.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 30, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Gorman lives in north London, parts of which have notoriously 'ard water.
> That doesn't, however, mean that all of London is the same, as some water is still drawn locally in most of London, not just from the London ring mains.


 
The worst house for it was in Wapping I think although I don't recall being lucky enough to live in one anywhere where it was alright.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 30, 2013)

Favelado said:


> The worst house for it was in Wapping I think although I don't recall being lucky enough to live in one anywhere where it was alright.


 
Worst I've ever experienced is Watford. People having to use soda crystals after every use of the washing machine to descale the drum and element; constant kettle defurrification; horrible taste, no soap lather.

Where I am in Tulse Hill, the water is fine, tastes okay, soap can lather up and it doesn't fur everything up.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 30, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Worst I've ever experienced is Watford. People having to use soda crystals after every use of the washing machine to descale the drum and element; constant kettle defurrification; horrible taste, no soap lather.
> 
> Where I am in Tulse Hill, the water is fine, tastes okay, soap can lather up and it doesn't fur everything up.


 
I did live in Tulse Hill for 6 months but I was probably too preoccupied with the 3 foot hole that appeared in my bedroom wall to worry about the water. I can't remember what it was like at all, apart from wet.


----------



## kittyP (Apr 30, 2013)

I have said this elsewhere but the water in this house is horrid. Really chalky and tastes...stale. 
If you put ice cubes made with tap water in your drink you end up with a load of white scum round the top of your glass. SW9

The house we moved from about two miles away in SW2, the water was fine. Nice and clear and not tainted tasting.


----------



## ohmyliver (May 2, 2013)

hang on UrbaneFox isn't smoked paprika is far more a Spanish, rather than Indian spice, so why would you expect to find it in an Indian shop?


----------



## hipipol (May 2, 2013)

This thread seems like a tadpole moaning about the drawbacks of its pond
Personally I could not survive anywhere else


----------



## Chz (May 4, 2013)

We had the odd experience of moving a whole mile down the road and finding out the water was considerably softer in the new place. Kind of weird, since I think it was the same water company both times. And the water is still hard, just not destroying kettles annually hard like it used to be.

(Move from Carshalton Beeches to Wallington, for what it's worth)


----------

