# BNP membership list has been put online.



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

There are reports that the entire fully-detailed BNP membership list has been put online.

Comments on the North West Nationalist site have people worrying about their jobs and some about their career in the army.

This lot couldn't run a whelk stall, never mind a local council such as Stoke.


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 18, 2008)

Wouldn't surprise me if my Nana and Granddad were on there.


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Where?I wouldn't be so quick to believe this. NWN is an anti-griffin site that's well used to shit spreading.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> There are reports that the entire fully-detailed BNP membership list has been put online.


By whom?


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## lewislewis (Nov 18, 2008)

Don't believe this sorry.

If it is true, then expect those unemployment statistics to go up by another 1,000!


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Have a look at the comments section of North West Nationalists blog for more details.

It maybe an anti-Griffin site, but I can't see why they would make a claim like this if there wasn't some truth to it, otherwise this opposition to Griffin would look like muppets if found to be untrue.


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> Have a look at the comments section of North West Nationalists blog for more details.
> 
> It maybe an anti-Griffin site, but I can't see why they would make a claim like this if there wasn't some truth to it, otherwise this opposition to Griffin would look like muppets if found to be untrue.



You can't see why the'd lie? Honestly? 

And a load of anon comments with stuff like the clearly shit stirring "The most shocking thing is some of the comments by the names!". Come on.


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> You can't see why the'd lie? Honestly?
> 
> And a load of anon comments with stuff like the clearly shit stirring "The most shocking thing is some of the comments by the names!". Come on.


 
Well if it is a lie then they would indeed be 'shit-stirring' and fools to boot.


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## Crispy (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm online right now, where can I find the BNP membership list?


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

The same place as the tediosuly leaked 'real accounts' i'd guess.


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Some are apparently taking legal advice, before releasing any more details.


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## Crispy (Nov 18, 2008)

Just send it to Wikileaks anonymously.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 18, 2008)

apparently lancaster UAF have it.

what are they going to do with it tho?

I mean stop being pussies, the 'baby P'* parents ID's were leaked, and repeatedly out back on line. no comebacks.

*that still sounds like a rapper to me.


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Of course LUAF are going to *say* they have it.


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## Taxamo Welf (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Of course LUAF are going to *say* they have it.



well who said it was leaked in the first place? I assumed this originated with them. LUAF is who you would leak to.


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

It's not supposed to have been 'leaked'. It's supposed to have been put online. Read the LUAF themselves on this:
http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/


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## danny la rouge (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> It's not supposed to have been 'leaked'. It's supposed to have been put online. Read the LUAF themselves on this:
> http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/





> Just as a complete aside, I should point out that we do not have a copy of this list, nor do we want one. The information we had was obtained online and appears suddenly to have been removed, at least for the moment...



So where was it?


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Fuck knows, I'm not convinced it happened.


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## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

Want!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 18, 2008)

SO where is it then?


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

Wow, I bet there's going to be a few stories coming out of that one ("Coronation Street actor in BNP membership shocker!" etc)....!


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## Kanda (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Fuck knows, I'm not convinced it happened.



https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=32095749&postID=300681785381908982


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

I This is the comments section of an anti-griffin site. Which is why i'm not convinced. (Yet)


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## BlockUp (Nov 18, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> SO where is it then?




Get it while you can...


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

I stand corrected the best way possible.


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## boxinghefner (Nov 18, 2008)

> https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?bl...81785381908982



they have unsurprisingly removed comments providing the link from this blog


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## bluestreak (Nov 18, 2008)

What a beautiful sight.  Hopefully it's still there when I get home so I can see which of my relatives are signed up


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## skunkboy69 (Nov 18, 2008)

Just need to sign all the ones with emails to spam sites


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## og ogilby (Nov 18, 2008)

Phone numbers and everything.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

BlockUp said:


> Get it while you can...



Holy fucking shit! All though if I was gonna leak something like that I'd d/l Open Office and convert the file to PDF...


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## skunkboy69 (Nov 18, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Holy fucking shit! All though if I was gonna leak something like that I'd d/l Open Office and convert the file to PDF...



Hopefully someone will and share it around torrent sites,rapidshare etc.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2008)

Has anyone saved it then?


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## Crispy (Nov 18, 2008)

This is legally dubious for urban, I think...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

Crispy said:


> This is legally dubious for urban, I think...



Very. It's a violation of the Data Protection Act from what I can tell...


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## Crispy (Nov 18, 2008)

Sorry guys, I've had to remove that link. We can't be seen to condone its distribution. I hope you understand.


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 18, 2008)

The search function seems a bit crap, can't pin point names to areas


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Yep, it's true.


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

This stuff should really be on piratebay and distributed


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## Fingers (Nov 18, 2008)

Tis now on my hard drive


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## Socrates (Nov 18, 2008)

*Some local members of the master race*

asdfasdf


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

PMs of offers of lists are gratefully received.


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## Crispy (Nov 18, 2008)

They may be BNP members but they are still UK citizens with protection under the law. Please do not post personal details or links to them on these public boards. Thank you.


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## JimPage (Nov 18, 2008)

Why now, and who by? 

To me the big issue, and the focus, is why they won last week in Boston. While public exposure and squaddism may put off a number of their activists and membership, and will a few dozen fash sacked from work, it wont alter the fact that they can poll 42% of the vote in wards which until 2003 were polling 60% votes for Labour- as in Boston


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## El Jefe (Nov 18, 2008)

no, you daft cunt. we've already been told not to post it.

fuck me, you're a twat


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## Socrates (Nov 18, 2008)

<ed: material removed>


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## El Jefe (Nov 18, 2008)

jesus, another fuckwit


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

Divisive Cotton said:


> The search function seems a bit crap, can't pin point names to areas


I'll have a fiddle with this later and maybe do some sort of SQL database so people can cross reference names/towns/whatever then upload it to piratebay.

Thanks to all the peeps that PM'd me the link - too many of you to reply to personally


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## Dan U (Nov 18, 2008)

<eta got it ta>


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## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

*For the last time.* 

Do not reproduce any personal details from that list here. Anyone who does so will now face a 24hr ban because I'm fed up deleting posts.


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## sleeperservice (Nov 18, 2008)

as the boss says, don't bother posting it. 

if you know how to use google or twitter you can find the site within about 30 seconds.


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## trevhagl (Nov 18, 2008)

Where did it originate? Anyone know?


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

Wowowow, this isn't just a name database, this has got comments like:


> Activist. Change of address 12/2/07. Gold badge not received: replacement sent 26/2/07


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 18, 2008)

PDFs are automatically searchable in Preview (mac), no idea about Adobe though.


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## Y_I_Otter (Nov 18, 2008)

trevhagl said:


> Where did it originate? Anyone know?



The list is said to be current up to September, 2008. I'd imagine someone who got booted out or left in disgust since that time would be a likely suspect.


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 18, 2008)

I have a copy now as a Word document - I only really wanted it to check out local members


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## joustmaster (Nov 18, 2008)

.


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## Geri (Nov 18, 2008)

Whoops, there's my stepsister's boyfriend on that list!


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

Divisive Cotton said:


> I have a copy now as a Word document - I only really wanted it to check out local members



Can I get a copy?


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 18, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Can I get a copy?



if you pm me an email address I'll send it to you


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## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Divisive Cotton said:


> if you pm me an email address I'll send it to you



Me too please. I know some local folk down here who'd be very interested in a copy.


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh dear, a pub around the corner is on this list _twice_


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

JimPage said:


> Why now, and who by?
> 
> To me the big issue, and the focus, is why they won last week in Boston. While public exposure and squaddism may put off a number of their activists and membership, and will a few dozen fash sacked from work, it wont alter the fact that they can poll 42% of the vote in wards which until 2003 were polling 60% votes for Labour- as in Boston


 
They need a growing activist base Jim - no one will trust them with their details anymore. This is one almighty cock-up that will piss-off their present membership, which is small and will set them back dearly. I can see more in-fighting and paranoia consuming them. I suppose these are some of the reasons why the list was put online in the first place, by whom is anyones guess?


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## Stay Beautiful (Nov 18, 2008)

"Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)"

LOL!


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

Stay Beautiful said:


> "Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)"
> 
> LOL!


Looks like the start of a dangerous breakaway faction to me!


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## boxinghefner (Nov 18, 2008)

my favourite 'descriptions' so far are:



> .”Will not be renewing (difficulties at home)”





> Activist. Membership suspended 20.9.05 (inappropriate tattoo). Suspension lifted 27.09.05


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## mr steev (Nov 18, 2008)

Electrician (qualified)


Is this definately for real?


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## Stay Beautiful (Nov 18, 2008)

boxinghefner said:


> my favourite 'descriptions' so far are:



haha! There is also: 



> 'Will not be renewing 07 ("Jehova God only real hope for mankind")



A natural progression in many ways, I suppose.


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## Nine Bob Note (Nov 18, 2008)

> church singing - activist



I've visions of an angry choir turning up on my doorstep now


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## trevhagl (Nov 18, 2008)

subversplat said:


> Oh dear, a pub around the corner is on this list _twice_




Whats that called? Where?


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## blackadder (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh dear, one of them's down as a Managing director of large multinational corporation - activist


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## trevhagl (Nov 18, 2008)

Stay Beautiful said:


> "Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)"
> 
> LOL!



They're respectable now you know, us lot can't be members now ha ha


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## free spirit (Nov 18, 2008)

.


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## killer b (Nov 18, 2008)

blackadder said:


> Oh dear, one of them's down as a Managing director of large multinational corporation - activist


indeed. do you think his paper making company will suffer financially from people refusing to do business with the fash? i'd like to think so...


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 18, 2008)

I've read elsewhere that there are two Scottish premiership football players on the list


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## bluestreak (Nov 18, 2008)

subversplat said:


> PMs of offers of lists are gratefully received.




Ditto.  Anyone sending this to me will receive a number of free internets.


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## killer b (Nov 18, 2008)

it's a blogspot blog, with a fairly obvious name.


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 18, 2008)

LU blog seems to think it was the Treasurer:



> It's been suggested that the party's former treasurer John Walker is responsible for posting the list up publicly.


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## boxinghefner (Nov 18, 2008)

there are lots of comments along the lines of:



> Will not be renewing 07 ("due to external pressure")



Also good:



> No 'promotional material' requested. Concerned about job



Think he or she will be a bit more concerned now


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

An ex police officer who was in the anti-terrorist unit and someone else with a Knighthood.


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## bluestreak (Nov 18, 2008)

Nay worries, sorted


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 18, 2008)

I see they are blaming the leak on the December fallout - Guardian article


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

I've just read this link:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/11/413120.html?c=on#c207494

Somebody in the comments section has added a comment and a link to a blog where somebody seems to have copied the whole thing up. Not sure if the blog is still up though.

TomPaine


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## Nine Bob Note (Nov 18, 2008)

> Mr sdfsdfsd sfsdfsd
> Dep Chairman - Head of Publicity Department



My money's on this one...


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## Nine Bob Note (Nov 18, 2008)

One for the BNP dating agency...



> Will not be renewing 07 - took exception to being asked to contact another similarly aged lady member


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## Dan U (Nov 18, 2008)

> Will not be renewing 07 ("unhappy with an Excalibur order")


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## bluestreak (Nov 18, 2008)

Tis interesting reading, this.  Fortunately it appears that my family members I had my suspicions about are amateur racists rather than professional ones.


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## trevhagl (Nov 18, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> Tis interesting reading, this.  Fortunately it appears that my family members I had my suspicions about are amateur racists rather than professional ones.



I found someone on there, but i guessed anyway so no real surprise. Funniest thing is he has a black girlfriend!!!! You couldn't make it up..


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## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2008)

*Adds the lot to the Lampost/Wall list*


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

No way, the land lord of the pub on the road my mate used to live on is there.
Crazy we went in there for a pint back in Feb on the way to a party. 

One of the local farms is on there too. 

TomPaine


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## trevhagl (Nov 18, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> No way, the land lord of the pub on the road my mate used to live on is there.
> Crazy we went in there for a pint back in Feb on the way to a party.
> 
> One of the local farms is on there too.
> ...




There's a nazi pub South of Durham that puts on PUNK gigs - bizarre!


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## articul8 (Nov 18, 2008)

> Experience in digital imaging manipulation



for airbrushing the "darkies" out?

And one Preston family appears to reside at 10 Downing Street


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## chilango (Nov 18, 2008)

_without_ naming names, any celebs been outed yet?


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## rhod (Nov 18, 2008)

<ed: removed again>

It's pretty much public domain now, so I thought I'd make it easier for U75'ers in a hurry


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## killer b (Nov 18, 2008)

articul8 said:


> for airbrushing the "darkies" out?
> 
> And one Preston family appears to reside at 10 Downing Street


indeed they do.


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## El Jefe (Nov 18, 2008)

rhod said:


> It's pretty much public domain now, so I thought I'd make it easier for U75'ers in a hurry



can't you read?


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## Chairman Meow (Nov 18, 2008)

subversplat said:


> PMs of offers of lists are gratefully received.



I'd lile a look at the list too please.


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## chilango (Nov 18, 2008)

'no need to link to it, its easy to find, so best not to, eh?


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## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

Once you have found the member list, google the emails, I found one linking to his company with a comments page.


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## articul8 (Nov 18, 2008)

> Removal contractor. Hobbies: has own small wild life sanctuary



so League of Gentleman


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Security: close protection officer

Retired retail jeweller. Hobbies: freemasonry


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

Fuck, this company are going to be pissed:

http://www.klowt.com

They do ethical clothing and help folks out in Africa including:

http://www.rockofhope.co.uk/

When you do a search on klowt.com now, the list of BNP members appears in google where their name associated with it .

TomPaine


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

trevhagl said:


> Whats that called? Where?


Err...?  Not telling right now....


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## articul8 (Nov 18, 2008)

> member describes himself as a witch: potential embarrassment if active





> Ex-Conservative and then Lib-Dem councillor, ex-chairman of local Green Party and UKIP member
> Minister of Religion. Cert. Ed. Hobbies: steam railways



comedy gold


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## Bob_the_lost (Nov 18, 2008)

Can i be the first one to manically blame MI5?!!!!


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## noodles (Nov 18, 2008)

Here's what Cruddas said about the BNP's attitude to Data Protection back in 2007:

_"What is being uncovered in the internal workings of the British National Party appears to be *systemic criminality in terms of data protection*, bugging, theft, money laundering and the operation of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. This is not the behaviour of a legitimate political party and I very much hope to see the police and the Electoral Commission investigate these charges"_

Fancy that!


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

hahaha one of the companies listed there, if you go to their website:



> * Typical % APR is 1734.1.



Scamming bastards.

TomPaine


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## Dan U (Nov 18, 2008)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/18/bnp-membership-list-leak



> The British National party tonight vowed to take legal action after its entire membership list was published online in breach of a court injunction.


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## rhod (Nov 18, 2008)

Wow - I see a 15th Century Welsh Prince of Wales is listed - and he's on email !


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## Stay Beautiful (Nov 18, 2008)

chilango said:


> _without_ naming names, any celebs been outed yet?



Unless it is a very unlikely coincidence, (going by the very uncommon name) there is a chap on there who writes (wrote?) for The Spectator, amongst other things. Not much of a celeb really but there you go. Also looking at his articles, it would figure.


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## quimcunx (Nov 18, 2008)

This is my first trip back to this thread since post #5. 

So it really has been leaked, then?  

Is it on BBC yet?


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## Goatherd (Nov 18, 2008)

There's an ex-Green Party candidate on that list. 

Edit : Two ex-Green Party candidates then.


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

noodles said:


> Here's what Cruddas said about the BNP's attitude to Data Protection back in 2007:
> 
> _"What is being uncovered in the internal workings of the British National Party appears to be *systemic criminality in terms of data protection*, bugging, theft, money laundering and the operation of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. This is not the behaviour of a legitimate political party and I very much hope to see the police and the Electoral Commission investigate these charges"_
> 
> Fancy that!


That's what he said whilst under parilamentary immunity. Wouldn't say it i real life.

The BNP didn't release this themselves for fucks sake. Someone who either used to have access and who had recorded the details or someone not  authorised to have them them broke into their system and got them.


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## harpo (Nov 18, 2008)

And Tony Blair!  And a 'church crawler'


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

To be honest, it does seem a bit harsh that some companies names are on there. They probably don't know about their employees political party memberships, and may find themselves on the end of a backlash regarding this. Also they can't just go and sack him/her either.

I bet this thing is going to cause a shit storm, its all over the press and message boards etc. now.

TomPaine


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

Have anyone been emailing the various companies with details of their BNP staff? I reckon it'd be easy to get this lot sacked for fear of the publicity...


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## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Fuck, this company are going to be pissed:
> 
> http://www.klowt.com
> 
> ...



When you do a whois on klowt.com you get the same name.

When you do a search of his full name you find he is a company director.


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

All over the press now:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/18/bnp-membership-list-leak
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...BNP-membership-list-leaked-onto-internet.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/discussions/posts/list/BNP_Membership_List~44~_Leaked_Online~46~-139296.page


TomPaine


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## noodles (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> That's what he said whilst under parilamentary immunity. Wouldn't say it i real life.
> 
> The BNP didn't release this themselves for fucks sake. Someone who either used to have access and who had recorded the details or someone not  authorised to have them them broke into their system and got them.



I wasn't implying that they released it themselves. Merely noting that if they haven't fulfilled their obligations under the Data Protection Act they could be in quite a bit of bother. Let's hope so.


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

steve1971> Wow that is really fucked up!

TomPaine


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## noodles (Nov 18, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Also they can't just go and sack him/her either



Any company with a basic IT usage policy should be able - to a certain extent - nobble anyone who used their work email facility for membership of a political party.


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## free spirit (Nov 18, 2008)

erm, don't suppose anyone's got a more usable version do they?

hadn't realised how many members they'd have, was starting to transfer it into excel, but think I'd be here til like next year or something... unless anyone's up for splitting the work up?


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## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

free spirit said:


> erm, don't suppose anyone's got a more usable version do they?
> 
> hadn't realised how many members they'd have, was starting to transfer it into excel, but think I'd be here til like next year or something... unless anyone's up for splitting the work up?


It's all down to the regular expressions, I'm just looking at automating it in PERL right now.


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## durruti02 (Nov 18, 2008)

Y_I_Otter said:


> The list is said to be current up to September, 2008. I'd imagine someone who got booted out or left in disgust since that time would be a likely suspect.


 expelled cllr on it so not too recent but still .. HEY!


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## Goatherd (Nov 18, 2008)

> Hobbies: letter writing to local/national papers



Why doesn't this surprise me?


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## Penry (Nov 18, 2008)

It's probably about time to stop deleting the direct links now - as it's already reached the stage where most pages of the blog are being chached and linked to directly from relevant Google searchs. - (i'd give an example if it wouldn't be edited - use just a little imagination) The list is now public, however accurate or up-to-date.

If they've confirmed to the broadsheets that it's their entire membership list (minus those who have lapsed since it was taken) - thats alot less than the 10,000 thats being reported everywhere, only the telegraph so far looks like they've even seen it. 

Oh - and the canditate for Sheffield - Mr A.P.T. - standing as a candidate before you've even payed your party subs is a No-No. ! Shame on you ! ! Shame on you ! ! Shame on you !

personally, i feel sorry for those on the list who have had other people pay their subs for them - who may not even know they're officially listed as being/have been members or know they're on that list


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## durruti02 (Nov 18, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> I've just read this link:
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/11/413120.html?c=on#c207494
> 
> Somebody in the comments section has added a comment and a link to a blog where somebody seems to have copied the whole thing up. Not sure if the blog is still up though.
> ...


 still up


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## rhod (Nov 18, 2008)

"Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)"


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## Groucho (Nov 18, 2008)

Darren C
Activist. Membership suspended 20.9.05 (inappropriate tattoo). Suspension lifted 27.09.05

..how did he get his membership reinstated - did he chop his arm off?

is that a 7 day suspension for a swastika tattoo?


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## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

Gotta laugh. Me mum just rang me up from 3000 odd miles away to ask if the window cleaner was on the list  (he wasn't).

However this does kinda suck, me mum rang me back to tell me one of the guys who does the St Georges day mummas play thing was on there. This will probably mean the event will cancelled as this cunt has gone and sullied it now and it will be associated with the far right. It has always been popular with the kids 

TomPaine


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

rhod said:


> "Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)"



That's them showing how clued up they are and how they can do without the hitler fan club today.


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## Groucho (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> That's them showing how clued up they are and how they can do without the hitler fan club today.



left of his own accord because he wouldn't follow orders but see above - 7 day suspension for 'inappropriate tattoo'.


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## timebomb (Nov 18, 2008)

This is very interesting, I've been searching for members locally and the first result I found was about 10 doors down from an address I delivered some stuff to today.

I doubt there's anybody I know personally.....there's one name I've found who could be a customer where I work, but I'm not sure.


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## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

*Has anyone got this as a word document – please?* 

I am looking at it via a blog link, but a word version would be handy.

Can anyone help? PM me & I’ll give you my e-mail address.

Cheers in advance.


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## free spirit (Nov 18, 2008)

patience is a virtue clamhamboy


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## Kanda (Nov 18, 2008)

> The spokesman said Mr Griffin alleges that publication of his members' details violates both the Data Protection Act and the Human Rights Act, legislation his party has said should be repealed.



Nick Griffin complaining to police lol


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## rhod (Nov 18, 2008)

"Pubic speaker. Has two suits of medieval 14th & 15th century armour and can joust for rallies"


So, bomber jacket - NO - suit of armour - THAT'LL DO NICELY!


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## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

Why would an ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) teacher be on there? Goes against the grain a little


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## Penry (Nov 18, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> *Has anyone got this as a word document – please?*



moderators - if you feel suggesting a google search is wrong - please edit this post and ban me for a month/year ..

try a google search for the phrase "Surnames beginning with Ba"

if its googleable, its everywhere (pretty much forever)

P.S - edit menu, select all, copy, open word, paste. = word document


----------



## Groucho (Nov 18, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> *Has anyone got this as a word document – please?*
> 
> I am looking at it via a blog link, but a word version would be handy.
> 
> ...



Copy and paste onto a word from the blog. Just highlight the lot using the control key


----------



## 8ball (Nov 18, 2008)

Just checked that no one with my surname is a member . . some of my family is a bit 'Daily Mail' and you never can tell . .


----------



## 8ball (Nov 18, 2008)

Quite a lot of 'Galloway's as it happens . .


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2008)

Penry said:


> Oh - and the canditate for Sheffield - Mr A.P.T. - standing as a candidate before you've even payed your party subs is a No-No. ! Shame on you ! ! Shame on you ! ! Shame on you !


they were very excited to get him to stand in the first place, a 'respectable' chap who was meant to do very well for them.

Likewise the chap listed as Sheffield Timber Company - he owns the place.

Unsurprising to note that the large majority of Sheffield members are from the outskirts, or the couple of remaining all-white estates.  Tho the bloke who lives
round the corner from me, in the first house I lived in in Sheffield in fact, may be a bit easier to contact for discussions.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 18, 2008)

steve1971 said:


> Why would an ESOL (English for Speakers of Other Languages) teacher be on there? Goes against the grain a little



and there's a Quaker


----------



## Goatherd (Nov 18, 2008)

Do a find for "Nurse (psychiatric)" and look at the name that comes up. He doesn't list painting as a hobby though.


----------



## Y_I_Otter (Nov 18, 2008)

durruti02 said:


> expelled cllr on it so not too recent but still .. HEY!



There's someone on it I used to lock digital horns with for a couple of years, a fellow who stood for council for them in 2006, but who has subsequently broken all ties with them (or so he claims).

He's either a racist liar or a racist schlimmazel.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 18, 2008)

Goatherd said:


> Do a find for "Nurse (psychiatric)" and look at the name that comes up. He doesn't list painting as a hobby though.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

Groucho said:


> Copy and paste onto a word from the blog. Just highlight the lot using the control key


The blog I am looking at has it split over several pages, so that would be a right pain.

Anyway someone has sent it to me by e-mail, just waiting for it to arrive now.

I've found two people I've suspected on it so far.

ETA: Also the one I am looking at doesn't seem to have anything other than names & contacts, no comments & other info


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> they were very excited to get him to stand in the first place, a 'respectable' chap who was meant to do very well for them.
> 
> Likewise the chap listed as Sheffield Timber Company - he owns the place.
> 
> ...


 
That's what I'm finding belboid, about those who live in this City and other areas I know - Towns and the like. There's very few members in the metropolitan district here - even smaller numbers on a couple of estates btw - even fewer categorised as "activists".

A fair number classic 'petty bourgeoise' I would say? This support is crucial for the BNP's survival in the long term?


----------



## harpo (Nov 18, 2008)

Not all names have comments.  You just have to trawl through.


----------



## Penry (Nov 18, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> The blog I am looking at has it split over several pages, so that would be a right pain.(



if you click the big blue words at the top - you get all the blog entries for this month on a single page... - although it's getting popular, and is fairly big, so seems slow to load.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2008)

anyone copunted up how many people are listed, yet?


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 18, 2008)

one of the news sites reckons nearly 10,000 but i doubt it's more than 4K tbh.


----------



## rhod (Nov 18, 2008)

"Lecturer in human rights/data protection"

D'Oh!


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> Unsurprising to note that the large majority of Sheffield members are from the outskirts, or the couple of remaining all-white estates.  Tho the bloke who lives
> round the corner from me, in the first house I lived in in Sheffield in fact, may be a bit easier to contact for discussions.



Are these going to be the same kind of "discussions" I stopped a couple of C18 members having with some of you a few years ago?


----------



## free spirit (Nov 18, 2008)

Penry said:


> if you click the big blue words at the top - you get all the blog entries for this month on a single page... - although it's getting popular, and is fairly big, so seems slow to load.


ah, knew there'd be an easier way...doh


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Are these going to be the same kind of "discussions" I stopped a couple of C18 members having with some of you a few years ago?



internet hero


----------



## cybertect (Nov 18, 2008)

I make it a little under 13,000


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Are these going to be the same kind of "discussions" I stopped a couple of C18 members having with some of you a few years ago?



More peolpe you've saved! The anarchists *and* the socialists saved by the libertarians!


----------



## free spirit (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> anyone copunted up how many people are listed, yet?





bluestreak said:


> one of the news sites reckons nearly 10,000 but i doubt it's more than 4K tbh.


2403 pages at around 5-6 members per page = 13-14,000 ish


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> anyone copunted up how many people are listed, yet?


 
According to Chris Hill on NWN, the list contains 12,215 names.



> By my reckoning of those in the Lancaster area, far more than half were lapsed members by 2007 and do not have a rejoining note attached to their details (ie. they’re still lapsed). There is no reason why the Lancaster area is any different from any other, so as of August 2008 we had only about 6000 paid up members! And this is not an old membership list, the latest entry is dared July 2008.
> 
> When Griffin claimed (at the EGM) in August this year that the membership was approaching 10,000 he was lying, it’s that simple. The 5% nomination mark needed to stand against him for the leadership, now becomes almost 10%, and given the revolving door membership situation this may well relate to something like 20% of the members with the required two years standing. Griffin is a dictator!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

There are many reasons why "the Lancaster area is any different from any other".


----------



## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

This is becoming increasingly bastardish without a linux shell. Regexps and windows do not go together well 

Still I persevere (and drink more beer)


----------



## mauvais (Nov 18, 2008)

I could very quickly write say, a Java app which'd take, say, a collection of HTML pages and parse them into something usable in a completely non specific way. I could host this generic purpose application and someone else could use it. Any use?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> There are many reasons why "the Lancaster area is any different from any other".


 
 And you know this living hundreds of miles away? You are indeed the supreme Power Ranger!

Zap!


----------



## Y_I_Otter (Nov 18, 2008)

Griffin responds: "Let’s enjoy the publicity bonus!" 

http:// bnp.org. uk/2008/11/membership-list-leak-%e2%80%93- urgent-update-from-bnp-leader-nick-griffin/


----------



## cybertect (Nov 18, 2008)

subversplat said:


> This is becoming increasingly bastardish without a linux shell. Regexps and windows do not go together well



12,808 according to my grepping


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> And you know this living hundreds of miles away? You are indeed the supreme Power Ranger!
> 
> Zap!



he is quite right tho.

and there are very very few people listed as lapsed in Sheff


----------



## subversplat (Nov 18, 2008)

cybertect said:


> 12,808 according to my grepping


IT would be a piece of piss to have them in a nice easy CSV file ready for excel, SQL whatever if I could just get editplus to accept the fact that there are more than one \n I have to take into account


----------



## liampreston (Nov 18, 2008)

articul8 said:


> for airbrushing the "darkies" out?
> 
> And one Preston family appears to reside at 10 Downing Street



Heh, I know where that is, doesn't surprise me either 

It seems to have become impossible to find the list, tho' I would be interested in seeing if there are any Prestonians on there, we had the England First party sniffing around in May, I wonder if there are any cross-overs of "known knowns" in the supporters list....


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> he is quite right tho.
> 
> and there are very very few people listed as lapsed in Sheff



So - about that discussion?


----------



## 8ball (Nov 18, 2008)

subversplat said:


> IT would be a piece of piss to have them in a nice easy CSV file ready for excel, SQL whatever if I could just get editplus to accept the fact that there are more than one \n I have to take into account



I was thinking of running some stats on it myself - purely for academic reasons . . .


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> So - about that discussion?



So - about you fucking off and dying


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> he is quite right tho.
> 
> and there are very very few people listed as lapsed in Sheff


 
That assumes that the poster on NWN, who the quote is from, doesn't know the area he lives in and that butchersapron knows the area better?

How many members listed from the whole of Sheffield though?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

free spirit said:


> 2403 pages at around 5-6 members per page = 13-14,000 ish



I've got 2590 pages, but only 4-5 members per page.

Big for a text only word doc - 4.5mb.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend or advise any 'free and frank exchange of views' with anyone on that list until they've been properly checked to see if they are indeed current members of the BNP.

Even once they've been verified, I'd go after the hardcore organisers and regular activists for maximum effect, rather than just ticking off names. I don't have a problem with targetting specific and proven fascists for a good hiding in principle, but I'd like to see anyone using the info for that purpose going about it in a sensible manner.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> So - about you fucking off and dying



Go on hard man. What are you going to do? House visits? Are you ready for the consequences?


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Go on hard man. What are you going to do? House visits? Are you ready for the consequences?



Are you trying to provoke some pissing contest or something?

Like I said before, I've got nothing against militant anti-fascism as long as it's properly targetted and those involved have a very clear idea of who to go after and why.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> I Even once they've been verified, I'd go after the hardcore organisers and regular activists for maximum effect, rather than just ticking off names. I don't have a problem with targetting specific and proven fascists for a good hiding in principle, but I'd like to see anyone using the info for that purpose going about it in a sensible manner.


This is a public forum and not an appropriate place to bang on about giving people "good hidings" because you disagree with their (alleged) political beliefs.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> Are you trying to provoke some pissing contest or something?
> 
> Like I said before, I've got nothing against militant anti-fascism as long as it's properly targetted and those involved have a very clear idea of who to go after and why.



Just so I'm clear what visiting someone for a "discussion" means. Is "properly targeted" a euphemism for the same thing?


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

> Even once they've been verified, I'd go after the hardcore organisers and regular activists for maximum effect, rather than just ticking off names. I don't have a problem with targetting specific and proven fascists for a good hiding in principle, but I'd like to see anyone using the info for that purpose going about it in a sensible manner.



Whilst some of those people might be cunts, surely "targetting" people is a bit out of order? I dunno, it is one thing to bycott their businesses and shun them which everyone has the right to do, but going out and kicking peoples heads in seems a bit counter productive to democracy and free speech (and that is not to say I am opposed to self defence, but going on the offence seems wrong IMO).

TomPaine


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> This is a public forum and not an appropriate place to bang on about giving people "good hidings" because you disagree with their (alleged) political beliefs.



Fair enough. If we disagree about that then then so be it. I was just making the point that militant anti-fascism tends to work and even Hitler himself admitted as much.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> I wouldn't recommend or advise any 'free and frank exchange of views' with anyone on that list until they've been properly checked to see if they are indeed current members of the BNP.
> 
> Even once they've been verified, I'd go after the hardcore organisers and regular activists for maximum effect, rather than just ticking off names. I don't have a problem with targetting specific and proven fascists for a good hiding in principle, but I'd like to see anyone using the info for that purpose going about it in a sensible manner.



And, of course, what with the entire list being freely available on the internet, there is no chance that anyone is going to use it in anything other than a sensible manner.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

teuchter said:


> And, of course, what with the entire list being freely available on the internet, there is no chance that anyone is going to use it in anything other than a sensible manner.



Which is why I was advising caution instead of going off half-cocked.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 18, 2008)

Happy fucking Christmas! 

This could be made into a Google earth overlay surely. 

It's available as a simple text file on pirate bay...


----------



## cybertect (Nov 18, 2008)

C'mon, the BNP are going to be royally fucked by their own membership after this.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> Fair enough. If we disagree about that then then so be it. I was just making the point that militant anti-fascism tends to work and even Hitler himself admitted as much.



Funnily enough, militant fascism tends to work too, and for exactly the same reasons. Threat or fear of violence can inspire just about anyone to do just about anything.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

What's the legal situation on this?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Most posters are sensible on here, others tend to theorise and of course there's some trolls too.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

> What's the legal situation on this?



Just had a look about that myself, but of course it has spread like wildfire across the net so I presume they would have an absolete nightmare of a job trying to get it removed??

TomPaine


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Happy fucking Christmas!



That was exactly my words as it finally landed in my inbox.


----------



## liampreston (Nov 18, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Happy fucking Christmas!
> 
> This could be made into a Google earth overlay surely.
> 
> It's available as a simple text file on pirate bay...



The idea has already caught the imagination of another forum I go on. GoogleMaps for the win...but the sound you can hear is thin ice beng skated on...


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Some of you folks should have a long fucking sit down and watch, or re-watch the Brass Eye Paedophilia special and have a long, long think about what you're advocating here.....


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2008)

On the blog that I saw, there are 91 names - that's not right is it?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> What's the legal situation on this?



The BNP is stuffed – there’s fuck all they can do about it now.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Griffin is bullish.



> The time when our opponents could bully our people with impunity are now over, but our opponents haven’t quite cottoned on to this yet.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

BNP site said:
			
		

> We have already sent formal demands to the web hosts to remove the list, pointing out to them that the fact that the publication of this year-old list constitutes Contempt of Court because a court order preventing its release or use was made and consented to by the group of disgraced former employees who first misappropriated it.
> 
> The web hosts’ legal department has already acknowledged receipt of our detailed analysis and demands. A solicitor has been asked to consider the implications of this for the final stages of that legal action, which is still not concluded, and we will be taking advice as to what can be done by way of enforcement of the Contempt of Court order...
> 
> We have also already made a complaint to Dyfed-Powys Police and will be giving formal statements shortly to support our demand for a serious and thorough police investigation into a series of very serious potential crimes, including breaches of the Data Protection Act, theft and receipt of stolen goods, and breaches of the Human Rights Act. Unless those involved have been extremely careful to cover their tracks, they are liable to find themselves in very serious trouble - and in prison.


Their attempts to get the information off the web  = Horse. Door. Blown off the hinges, trampled underfoot, set fire to and the ashes blasted off into space.


----------



## Talkie Toaster (Nov 18, 2008)

Structaural said:


> This could be made into a Google earth overlay surely.


A "Fash-Up" ... how very web2.0 ...


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> On the blog that I saw, there are 91 names - that's not right is it?



It's an alphabetical list, you just go to the right of the screen and click on the section you're looking for. It would have been a great deal easier if they'd been listed by location though.

As far as the legal situation goes, it is a breach of the Data Protection Act and contempt of court as the list was subject to a court order barring its publication. The individuals who actually put this in the public domain may be liable in law for both offences, but if anyone were to post it up on a USA registered domain then I may be right in thinking that it would be covered by the First Amendment which guarantees freedom of expression and would be outside of UK jurisdiction. This being the excuse used for not shutting down the Redwatch website, IIRC.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Are you ready for the consequences?


oooh, it's like being threatened by a dead haddock


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Their attempts to get the information off the web  = Horse. Door. Blown off the hinges, trampled underfoot, set fire to and the ashes blasted off into space.



Good summary. 

I am just reading that statement on the BNP site ATM.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 18, 2008)

what is 





> Proof of entitlement seen


? 
confirmation of whiteness???


----------



## netbob (Nov 18, 2008)

Ive got a nice shiny google map on my laptop (converted all the postcodes to lat/longs and mapped them).


----------



## netbob (Nov 18, 2008)

the raw csv file (not my map) is all over bit torrent, so there's arse all they can do now


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> Griffin is bullish.



That may be his public position, but I doubt very much he's being that bullish in private. His attitude reminds me of a boxer who's just taken a good shot and is smiling and saying 'That didn't hurt me.' Which usually means it did.

Of course, we don't know the precise provenance of the list as of yet, but if it were from anyone still in the party then Griffin may well use it as an excuse to get rid of anyone who may have been a threat and/or an embarassment to him previously. Certainly there'll be hell to pay within the party as a result of this.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

ddraig said:


> what is ?
> confirmation of whiteness???


 
To benefits, pensions, unemployment. Reduced subs.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

belboid said:


> oooh, it's like being threatened by a dead haddock



Great to see you're so flippant about it. Your hypocrisy is vile.

It's not me you should be concerned about belboid. Perhaps the lads in the Wednesday football firm would give you cause for concern, especially the large chap tattooed with swastikas and with 'OCS' tatooed on his knuckles. I'm sure he'd be happy to return your 'visit' and "discussion".


----------



## El Jefe (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Some of you folks should have a long fucking sit down and watch, or re-watch the Brass Eye Paedophilia special and have a long, long think about what you're advocating here.....



Oh cock off


----------



## ddraig (Nov 18, 2008)

bbc1


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Great to see you're so flippant about it. Your hypocrisy is vile.
> 
> It's not me you should be concerned about belboid. Perhaps the lads in the Wednesday football firm would give you cause for concern, especially the large chap tattooed with swastikas and with 'OCS' tatooed on his knuckles. I'm sure he'd be happy to return your 'visit' and "discussion".



Hmmm.

Perhaps, if you're going to level charges of hypocrisy, you might want to look at the fash as well. They're great ones for complaining about 'Red thugs' and the like while simultaneously claiming innocence of any wrongdoing themselves.

Fair exchange is no robbery, nor is it hypocrisy IMHO.


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

-


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> It's an alphabetical list, you just go to the right of the screen and click on the section you're looking for. It would have been a great deal easier if they'd been listed by location though.
> 
> As far as the legal situation goes, it is a breach of the Data Protection Act and contempt of court as the list was subject to a court order barring its publication. The individuals who actually put this in the public domain may be liable in law for both offences, but if anyone were to post it up on a USA registered domain then I may be right in thinking that it would be covered by the First Amendment which guarantees freedom of expression and would be outside of UK jurisdiction. This being the excuse used for not shutting down the Redwatch website, IIRC.



I was just being stupid - 91 posts, not names @self


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> Perhaps, if you're going to level charges of hypocrisy, you might want to look at the fash as well. They're great ones for complaining about 'Red thugs' and the like while simultaneously claiming innocence of any wrongdoing themselves.
> 
> Fair exchange is no robbery, nor is it hypocrisy IMHO.



Right. So when does "fair exchange" morph into "tit for tat".


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> ...the large chap tattooed with swastikas and with 'OCS' tatooed on his knuckles. I'm sure he'd be happy to return your 'visit' and "discussion".


 
Return visit?  Jerks with tatoos of swastikas don't need any encouragement I can assure you. I've seen pregnant women being kicked by scum such as this.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Great to see you're so flippant about it. Your hypocrisy is vile.
> 
> It's not me you should be concerned about belboid. Perhaps the lads in the Wednesday football firm would give you cause for concern, especially the large chap tattooed with swastikas and with 'OCS' tatooed on his knuckles. I'm sure he'd be happy to return your 'visit' and "discussion".



I'm not concerned with you in the slightest, you pathetic little worm.

But, just to satisfy your very very small brain:




			
				fuckspud said:
			
		

> Would this be the same kind of discussion I had with a couple of C18 members...


No, because:

a) I can speak in complete sentences, and

b) you are a liar


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Right. So when does "fair exchange" morph into "tit for tat".



If you're running things properly, it doesn't. It's done according to a tactical and strategic need with a specific result in mind, and not some children's game. Militant anti-fascism is a serious affair and not something to be entered into lightly.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Could posters adjust their testosterone valves down to 'minimum' please?


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> Return visit?  Jerks with tatoos of swastikas don't need any encouragement I can assure you. I've seen pregnant women being kicked by scum such as this.



Oh I know that MC5. But it looks like they'll shortly get all the extra encouragement they'll need, and not a few new recruits shortly....


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Great to see you're so flippant about it. Your hypocrisy is vile.
> 
> It's not me you should be concerned about belboid. Perhaps the lads in the Wednesday football firm would give you cause for concern, especially the large chap tattooed with swastikas and with 'OCS' tatooed on his knuckles. I'm sure he'd be happy to return your 'visit' and "discussion".



You live in a dreamworld of 'lads' and skinheads and so on.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> If you're running things properly, it doesn't. It's done according to a tactical and strategic need with a specific result in mind, and not some children's game. Militant anti-fascism is a serious affair and not something to be entered into lightly.



"Running things properly".

Bakunin, have you ever had a fight in your life? I've yet to see a single violent encounter that "goes to plan" or doesn't spin out of control.

I guess some of you are about to be reacquainted with the almighty law of unintended consequences.


----------



## mauvais (Nov 18, 2008)

The data is a mess. I can parse it but it'll take a while.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Could posters adjust their testosterone valves down to 'minimum' please?



Well, one of your own moderators seems to give tacit approval. I guess principles go out of the window if you're on the side of "good" eh?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> What's the legal situation on this?



Popbitch have had a link to the full list on their board since 17:30. They are usually pretty good with the legal aspects, so....


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Oh I know that MC5. But it looks like they'll shortly get all the extra encouragement they'll need, and not a few new recruits shortly....


 
They'll lose a lot more recruits over this. The very people that Griffin needs to ensure his Euro win.

Haven't you heard? The last thing that Griffin wants right now is a party with an inordinate number of members with swastika tatoos.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> If you're running things properly, it doesn't. It's done according to a tactical and strategic need with a specific result in mind, and not some children's game. Militant anti-fascism is a serious affair and not something to be entered into lightly.



And publishing a load of addresses on the internet amounts to "running things properly" does it?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> "Running things properly".
> 
> Bakunin, have you ever had a fight in your life? I've yet to see a single violent encounter that "goes to plan" or doesn't spin out of control.
> 
> I guess some of you are about to be reacquainted with the almighty law of unintended consequences.



I agree.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

A right couple of drama queens we have here.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> They'll lose a lot more recruits over this. The very people that Griffin needs to ensure his Euro win.
> 
> Haven't you heard? The last thing that Griffin wants right now is a party with an inordinate number of members with swastika tatoos.



It's not a 1=1 correlation though MC is it? There are still some ex-C18 types in the Wednesday football firm for example that aren't necessarily members of the BNP. If they hear about BNP members being harrassed in their own homes though, I'm sure they'll begin flexing muscles again after years of being relatively quiet.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> "Running things properly".
> 
> Bakunin, have you ever had a fight in your life? I've yet to see a single violent encounter that "goes to plan" or doesn't spin out of control.
> 
> I guess some of you are about to be reacquainted with the almighty law of unintended consequences.



I have been in the occasional one or two, yes, since you asked. I'm not coming to this from a point of total ignorance as you seem to be implying. I'm not for a moment suggesting that it doesn't have its risks and that things always, always go to plan. But it remains a fact that militant anti-fascism has worked before and, I firmly believe, can be made to work again if it's done properly.

Do Cable Street and the activities of AFA ring any bells? It's never something to go into lightly or without thorough planning and consideration of the consequences and yes, there's always the unexpected to consider. But I'll ask you this:

DO you really think that the BNP's turn to 'electoralism' is a full turn and that they and their fellow travellers have permanently renounced the use of force if there should come a time when it might suit their aims?

Because, personally, I don't. They might be wearing suits these days instead of bomber jackets and they might have cast a few of the more obvious bullyboys out of the party, but I don't believe for a second that, if they thought that targetting their opponents physically would work they wouldn't turn back to it again in an instant. A turd in a Tiffany box is still a turd, IMHO.


----------



## Geri (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Bakunin, have you ever had a fight in your life? I've yet to see a single violent encounter that "goes to plan" or doesn't spin out of control.



I have.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> A right couple of drama queens we have here.



Yeah, cos there aren't any posters on here advocating tracking people down and giving them a hiding. I'm having trouble distinguishing the two groups of jackboots at the moment....


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Yeah, cos there aren't any posters on here advocating tracking people down and giving them a hiding. I'm having trouble distinguishing the two groups of jackboots at the moment....



Are you? Do you need a hand then?


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

teuchter said:


> And publishing a load of addresses on the internet amounts to "running things properly" does it?



I think you'll find that, according to the Guardian, even the BNP themselves are blaming former employees, who are unlikely to be militant anti-fascists while simultaneously holding BNP membership and positions of trust, don't you think?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/18/bnp-membership-list-leak


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> DO you really think that the BNP's turn to 'electoralism' is a full turn and that they and their fellow travellers have permanently renounced the use of force if there should come a time when it might suit their aims?



Bakunin, it comes down to this: You're advocating throwing principles out of the window just because your enemies are doing the same. 

_Monstrum in fronte Monstrum in animo_

If someone is under threat of direct violence from C18 et al, then by all means defend them. But achieving your ends through direct intimidation, house visits etc? No, sorry... you're crossing the line and becoming the enemy yourself.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Bakunin, it comes down to this: You're advocating throwing principles out of the window just because your enemies are doing the same.
> 
> _Monstrum in fronte Monstrum in animo_
> 
> If someone is under threat of direct violence from C18 et al, then by all means defend them. But achieving your ends through direct intimidation, house visits etc? No, sorry... you're crossing the line and becoming the enemy yourself.



'All victory involves an element of moral capitulation' - George Orwell.

And I think you'll find that Orwell knew a great deal about militant anti-fascism, given his experiences in Spain. It comes down to a choice, ultimately, between winning with what works or being happy to lose and keep your dogma. I'd rather defeat fascism than lose and say 'Oh well, at least we were good sports and nice about it.'


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

-


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

I've done a pdf version (with index) of the list if anyone wants it.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've done a pdf version of the list if anyone wants it.



Yes please.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> 'All victory involves an element of moral capitulation' - George Orwell.
> 
> And I think you'll find that Orwell knew a great deal about militant anti-fascism, given his experiences in Spain. It comes down to a choice, ultimately, between winning with what works or being happy to lose and keep your dogma. I'd rather defeat fascism than lose and say 'Oh well, at least we were good sports and nice about it.'



In other words - you're willing to become them to fight them.

GO TEAM!!!!!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> In other words - you're willing to become them to fight them.
> 
> GO TEAM!!!!!



Apolitical priests nonsense.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> It's not a 1=1 correlation though MC is it? There are still some ex-C18 types in the Wednesday football firm for example that aren't necessarily members of the BNP. If they hear about BNP members being harrassed in their own homes though, I'm sure they'll begin flexing muscles again after years of being relatively quiet.


 
BNP members from this list being harassed in their homes? No one has suggested such a thing? Some have pointed out it would be counter-productive? 

As for "ex-C18 types", if there are any at all? I would think that after the recent bombs under the bed, child porn convictions of such a "type" recently the police have these "types" firmly in their sights?


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

-


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Apolitical priests nonsense.



That's like something Hitler would have said.


----------



## longdog (Nov 18, 2008)

I found it 

I won't say where as it seems there is an injunction but Google is your friend


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> BNP members from this list being harassed in their homes? No one has suggested such a thing? Some have pointed out it would be counter-productive?



Silly me. So the mention of dealing out a hiding in the context of a list of addresses now being available means nothing of the sort.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2008)

There's someone with my name on that list but that's no surprise.
One member is a female resident of Saudi Arabia. WTF?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

steve1971 said:


> Excel spreadsheet coming soon, just need to boot into windows.
> 
> Ask and ye shall receive


 
Darios that doesn't read "boot in their windows" btw.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 18, 2008)

longdog said:


> I found it
> 
> I won't say where as it seems there is an injunction but Google is your friend



It isn't a huge challenge 

As has been said, please don't post lists here or anything - if there is an injunction or anything like that, Urban is a big, easy, slow-moving target for lawyers. But, you know, this isn't a value judgement.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> In other words - you're willing to become them to fight them.
> 
> GO TEAM!!!!!



You don't know very much about this sort of thing, do you? I'm well aware of the risk of becoming what I behold, thanks, and that isn't going to happen with me. If I didn't abhor everything they stand for then I wouldn't be willing to stand against them like this. You, on the other hand, seem perfectly happy to try and appease them in the hope that they'll go away when history quite clearly shows that they won't.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That's like something Hitler would have said.



It's worse that that.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> As for "ex-C18 types", if there are any at all? I would think that after the recent bombs under the bed, child porn convictions of such a "type" recently the police have these "types" firmly in their sights?



MC I can confirm that there are such people still at large and - as some people have already noted on Urban, there is a substantial difference in the coverage said people have got relative to, for example, Islamist groups.


----------



## Spion (Nov 18, 2008)

longdog said:


> I won't say where as it seems there is an injunction but Google is your friend


As is Piratebay


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Silly me. So the mention of dealing out a hiding in the context of a list of addresses now being available means nothing of the sort.


 
Who mentioned about 'hiding'?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> 'All victory involves an element of moral capitulation' - George Orwell.
> 
> And I think you'll find that Orwell knew a great deal about militant anti-fascism, given his experiences in Spain. It comes down to a choice, ultimately, between winning with what works or being happy to lose and keep your dogma. I'd rather defeat fascism than lose and say 'Oh well, at least we were good sports and nice about it.'



Yup, and the situation in November 2008 UK is of course directly comparable to the situation in late '30s Spain.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> You don't know very much about this sort of thing, do you? I'm well aware of the risk of becoming what I behold, thanks, and that isn't going to happen with me. If I didn't abhor everything they stand for then I wouldn't be willing to stand against them like this. You, on the other hand, seem perfectly happy to try and appease them in the hope that they'll go away when history quite clearly shows that they won't.



No obviously not. Only over a decade of doorwork and hundreds of fights, and stopping some skinheads from doing the very same thing to some of you lot a few years ago.  As a result I can't countenance you doing the same. But hey, I believe in consistency and integrity. I suppose you'll be on the frontline then Bakunin? Does the dole office know you're physically able to go out and have punch ups with your political opponents?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> MC I can confirm that there are such people still at large and - as some people have already noted on Urban, there is a substantial difference in the coverage said people have got relative to, for example, Islamist groups.


 
Oh yeah?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

MC5 said:


> Who mentioned about 'hiding'?





Bakunin said:


> I wouldn't recommend or advise any 'free and frank exchange of views' with anyone on that list until they've been properly checked to see if they are indeed current members of the BNP.
> 
> Even once they've been verified, I'd go after the hardcore organisers and regular activists for maximum effect, rather than just ticking off names. I don't have a problem with targetting specific and proven fascists for a good hiding in principle, but I'd like to see anyone using the info for that purpose going about it in a sensible manner.


.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

teuchter said:


> .



...and what else did he say toosh?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

teuchter said:


> .


 
I get the distinct impression you're the provocateur here?


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Yup, and the situation in November 2008 UK is of course directly comparable to the situation in late '30s Spain.



Orwell was referring to conflict in general, IIRC, and I don't recall saying anywhere that 'the situation in November 2008 uk is of course directly comparable to the situation in 1930's Spain' so you may be guilty of trying to put words into my mouth there.



Darios said:


> No obviously not. Only over a decade of doorwork and hundreds of fights, and stopping some skinheads from doing the very same thing to some of you lot a few years ago.  As a result I can't countenance you doing the same. But hey, I believe in consistency and integrity. I suppose you'll be on the frontline then Bakunin? Does the dole office know you're physically able to go out and have punch ups with your political opponents?



I'm not physically up to fights, but I'll be happy to help gather information and plan actions as and when I can. I can fit that in around my other work if need be. I'm perfectly happy to do what I can, when and where I can, yes.


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Right, well I suppose this gets bookmarked as another "Urban 75 classic" thread, and when people ask me what the "left" in the UK is all about, I'll happily point them to this thread...

From one Marxist to another:
"....these are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others..."
- Groucho Marx.


----------



## mauvais (Nov 18, 2008)

.


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 18, 2008)

just 'found' this list and C&P'd to OO. 2598 pages!!

hilarious though


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Right, well I suppose this gets bookmarked as another "Urban 75 classic" thread, and when people ask me what the "left" in the UK is all about, I'll happily point them to this thread...
> 
> From one Marxist to another:
> "....these are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others..."
> - Groucho Marx.


 
But this isn't 'the left in the UK'.


----------



## netbob (Nov 18, 2008)

map of 1000 random members (checked before posting):







more english than british ...


----------



## free spirit (Nov 18, 2008)

well personally I see the list as a bit of an insurance policy in case things do start to get out of hand at any point.

plus I never knew the top boy for the north east bnp lived a hundred yards from my old flat... could have posted him his stickers back once I'd ripped them down after they'd been out stickering or something... would have amused me anyway.

sure there'll be other uses for it too without using violence.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> ...and what else did he say toosh?



Some stuff that contradicts, in my opinion, the suggestion that he doesn't have a problem with certain people being given a "good hiding". Of course, this comes down to a difference of opinion about what is sensible. In any case I was simply answering the question asked by MC5.


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 18, 2008)

'Former GMB shop steward'

How nice!


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Right, well I suppose this gets bookmarked as another "Urban 75 classic" thread, and when people ask me what the "left" in the UK is all about, I'll happily point them to this thread...
> 
> From one Marxist to another:
> "....these are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others..."
> - Groucho Marx.



In other words, you don't have an answer so you're going to make snide little digs in the hope that I'll start frothing at the mouth and banging on about armed struggle and a campaign of indiscriminate bloodshed. Not going to work, I'm afraid.

I see a place for properly planned and organised militant anti-fascism, yes. But the emphasis is on the 'properly planned and organised' part, not some wild campaign of kicking arses unless there's a definite strategic and tactical gain to be made from it.

And I make no apologies for that.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

memespring said:


> map of 1000 random members (checked before posting):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Any chance of one to scale?


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> In other words, you don't have an answer so you're going to make snide little digs in the hope that I'll start frothing at the mouth and banging on about armed struggle and a campaign of indiscriminate bloodshed. Not going to work, I'm afraid.



Answer for what exactly?

You chaps have already shown yourselves up for what you are....


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

I am happy to e-mail the word version (4.5mb) to anyone that wants it, just PM an e-mail address.

I hope to have the PDF & Excel versions available soon too.


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 18, 2008)

<name snipped> (15) YBNP Sup Club

YBNP? Young BNP?? ffs!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Answer for what exactly?
> 
> You chaps have already shown yourselves up for what you are....



Fascists


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

> more english than british ...



Possibly because something like 80% of the population lives in England?

TomPaine


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

Darios said:


> Answer for what exactly?
> 
> You chaps have already shown yourselves up for what you are....



Oh please, you're scraping the barrel now. 

If you want to be an appeaser of fascism, then you go ahead. Bury your head in the sand and hope that the likes of Nick Griffin and his fellow travellers don't come after you at some future point.

Personally, I'd rather not take that chance.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 18, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Fascists


 
Researchers?


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 18, 2008)

> Nick Griffin and his fellow travellers


 

When did the BNP start living in a bus?

TomPaine


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 18, 2008)

Just found the BNP membership secretary on there


----------



## Darios (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> Oh please, you're scraping the barrel now.
> 
> If you want to be an appeaser of fascism, then you go ahead. Bury your head in the sand and hope that the likes of Nick Griffin and his fellow travellers don't come after you at some future point.
> 
> Personally, I'd rather not take that chance.



LMAO "appeaser".

Good luck kiddo.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> I hope to have the PDF & Excel versions available soon too.



I've done a pdf version, complete with index for each alphabetical section, if anyone wants it, PM me


----------



## moomoo (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've done a pdf version, complete with index for each alphabetical section, if anyone wants it, PM me



You're such a geek! 

Any in my town so I can go  at them?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

moomoo said:


> Any in my town so I can go  at them?



A quick search suggests 12 on the list close to you...


----------



## moomoo (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A quick search suggests 12 on the list close to you...





Send me the list please then - I'm curious now!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

moomoo said:


> Send me the list please then - I'm curious now!



PM me your email address.


----------



## moomoo (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> PM me your email address.



Just did.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

moomoo said:


> Just did.



You have mail


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 18, 2008)

one round the corner from me....


----------



## moomoo (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You have mail



Thank you.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks to those that have sent me the different versions, which I am happy to e-mail to anyone that wants them.

Just PM with an e-mail address and state which version or versions you would like – available as PDF, Excel or Word.

I’ll be going off line soon, but will continue to forward the lists tomorrow.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> In other words, you don't have an answer so you're going to make snide little digs in the hope that I'll start frothing at the mouth and banging on about armed struggle and a campaign of indiscriminate bloodshed. Not going to work, I'm afraid.
> 
> I see a place for properly planned and organised militant anti-fascism, yes. But the emphasis is on the 'properly planned and organised' part, not some wild campaign of kicking arses unless there's a definite strategic and tactical gain to be made from it.
> 
> And I make no apologies for that.



But do you consider the leaking of these details part of a "properly planned and organised" and "sensible" strategy - the type of strategy you are in favour of?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> Thanks to those that have sent me the different versions, which I am happy to e-mail to anyone that wants them.
> 
> Just PM with an e-mail address and state which version or versions you would like – available as PDF, Excel or Word.
> 
> I’ll be going off line soon, but will continue to forward the lists tomorrow.



As a matter of interest, for what reason are you willing to spend time expediating the distribution of this information?


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 18, 2008)

> Retired hotel housekeeper. Certs in skin/nail care. Hobbies: sewing crafts, knitting, animal welfare, military history





Nice to see the master race need a manicure and a woolly jumper before world domination. See, they're human too!


----------



## moomoo (Nov 18, 2008)

I don't know any of them thankfully!


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

-


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

teuchter said:


> But do you consider the leaking of these details part of a "properly planned and organised" and "sensible" strategy - the type of strategy you are in favour of?



As I said before, and if you'd bothered to click on the Guardian link I posted previously, you'd know that even the BNP themselves are blaming disgruntled former employees. Like I said, people holding positions of trust within the BNP are hardly likely to be militant anti-fascists, now are they? So what's your point exactly?

It wasn't, as far as we know, militant anti-fascists, or even anti-fascists at all, come to that, who leaked this information. That said, an intelligence goldmine like this comes along very rarely and we'd be fools not to make as great a use of it as we can.


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 18, 2008)

a good round up of the days events

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5183868.ece


----------



## liampreston (Nov 18, 2008)

Nick Griffin is to sue using the Human Rights Act his party want to repeal, I now read.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

liampreston said:


> Nick Griffin is to sue using the Human Rights Act his party want to repeal, I now read.



Yep, I read that earlier. IIRC, he also wants the Data Protection Act repealed as well.


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 18, 2008)

Taxamo Welf said:


> a good round up of the days events
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5183868.ece





> The address and home telephone number of Nick Griffin, the party leader, are disclosed.



ctrl+f......


oh yes! so he is! 

(but i suspect that was fairly common knowledge anyway  )


----------



## mauvais (Nov 18, 2008)

.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 18, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> As I said before, and if you'd bothered to click on the Guardian link I posted previously, you'd know that even the BNP themselves are blaming disgruntled former employees. Like I said, people holding positions of trust within the BNP are hardly likely to be militant anti-fascists, now are they? So what's your point exactly?
> 
> It wasn't, as far as we know, militant anti-fascists, or even anti-fascists at all, come to that, who leaked this information. That said, an intelligence goldmine like this comes along very rarely and we'd be fools not to make as great a use of it as we can.



OK then, replace "leaking" in my question with "promoting the dissemination".

Either you think it's OK or you don't. If you don't, then surely you don't actively assist.

I'm not particularly aiming that at you, really, it's a general remark to everyone who seems so eager to knock up google maps, spreadsheets and what have you. It's like everyone's got caught up in some kind of "look-at-me-fighting-the-racists" hysteria without really thinking about what they are doing. I wonder how many of these people have been in outrage in the past about those gangs that went out harassing paediatricians.

I know it's going to spread whatever now, so it doesn't really make any difference what anyone does here. It's just the principle of it.


----------



## Raw SslaC (Nov 18, 2008)

How about calling a national day of phoning - not threatening stuff but trying convince those 10,000 people they are wrong in looking towards the BNP. Fuck, we need loads of patronising middle-class student socialists - that will be worst than torture! :-0)


----------



## DJ Squelch (Nov 18, 2008)

What happened here? - 

"Guardian plant ('undercover' report written for the Guardian 20/12/06. 07 renewal payment received 23/12/06"


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 18, 2008)

teuchter said:


> OK then, replace "leaking" in my question with "promoting the dissemination".
> 
> Either you think it's OK or you don't. If you don't, then surely you don't actively assist.
> 
> ...



I think it may well have been a necessary evil in this particular case, as unless it was spread and spread quickly it might not have been spread at all and anti-fascists (militant and otherwise) can make good use of it as long as they approach its use properly. No doubt the people downloading and passing this intelligence goldmine around could not be sure of just how much time they'd have in which to do that.

In an ideal world, I'd sooner have seen it disseminated in private to those individuals and groups that could make best use of it, but I don't think that was really practical given the speed with which the BNP legal people will no doubt have tried to shut it down. But it isn't an ideal world and we all know that.

It does show that the Internet can be an extremely powerful tool for disseminating information, which I'll be passing to certain interested parties that I know and trust to use it properly, and that, yes, it's going to spread anyway whether folk want it to or not.


----------



## Callie (Nov 18, 2008)

I knew facebook was good for something.

Nice to put names to face/email addys


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 18, 2008)

I tell you what though - I take this sort of thing very seriously. There has clearly been some appalling data security here, and the organisation which let its members' confidential information leak out must be harshly punished.


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 18, 2008)

Does sky.co.uk mean a sky employee? Or can you get them with sky internet


----------



## untethered (Nov 18, 2008)

Callie said:


> I knew facebook was good for something.
> 
> Nice to put names to face/email addys



How long before we get a "BNP members" Facebook application?


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 19, 2008)

And what about

deleted from database. (Permission not given for embership.) Media worker (Sky TV), background in PR/advertising. Pleased to offer advice


----------



## mauvais (Nov 19, 2008)

> activist. Senior citizen spends most of the year in spain so chose to pay for overseas membership





> Lives in Brazil. Travels extensively





> Will not be renewing 07 (embarrassed by revelations in Private Eye re. councillors), Fluent Portugeuse





> Will not be renewing 07 (emigrating to Australia)





> Will not be renewing 07 (emigrating to Portugal), Businessman





> Will not be renewing 07 (objects to being told he shouldn't wear a bomber jacket)


ultralol


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I tell you what though - I take this sort of thing very seriously. There has clearly been some appalling data security here, and the organisation which let its members' confidential information leak out must be harshly punished.



What about anyone else, though, who has knowingly and actively helped it reach a wide audience? Should they be subject to different treatment?


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 19, 2008)

Raw SslaC said:


> How about calling a national day of phoning - not threatening stuff but trying convince those 10,000 people they are wrong in looking towards the BNP. Fuck, we need loads of patronising middle-class student socialists - that will be worst than torture! :-0)



All politicians should look at the names in their wards and do a bit of doorstepping, finding out why they joined the BNP and attempt to convince them that they are wrongly informed.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> What about anyone else, though, who has knowingly and actively helped it reach a wide audience? Should they be subject to different treatment?



It's a matter of practicality, I reckon. As you yourself acknowledged, IIRC, this will spread and will have been so widely disseminated by now that to get everybody who either has a copy of the list or has passed on a copy would be impossible.

There could also be a question of legal jurisdictions as well, in that if, say, the websites on which it was published were registered in the USA they may well be outside UK jurisdiction and also be covered by the First Amendment that guarantees freedom of expression. There's also another Amendment IIRC, but forget which one, that I think might guarantee freedom of the press as well.


----------



## BlockUp (Nov 19, 2008)

Spion said:


> As is Piratebay



Yeah, I've just seen it there...(twice)
The knock-on effect to this could be pretty destructive...


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 19, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I tell you what though - I take this sort of thing very seriously. There has clearly been some appalling data security here, and the organisation which let its members' confidential information leak out must be harshly punished.



looks like that may well be happening soon  :



> What is going on? P*ss up in a brewery comes to mind. Who controls the membership list? Clearly old Griffo doesn’t give a sh*t! I want some answers, NOW
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...



(from the Times article that Tax linked to)


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 19, 2008)

Who is "Activist High profile sportsman" never heard of him, neither it seems has google


----------



## mauvais (Nov 19, 2008)

If you want a nice little Excel spreadsheet from the text file, you can run http://crap.wapoc.com/parser.jnlp


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> As a matter of interest, for what reason are you willing to spend time expediating the distribution of this information?



it makes me feel warm inside.


----------



## free spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

2940 listed as activists...


----------



## subversplat (Nov 19, 2008)

steve1971 said:


> Who is "Activist High profile sportsman" never heard of him, neither it seems has google


The nationalist forum lot are getting their jockstraps in a twist over some Scottish Premiership footballers....


----------



## free spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

steve1971 said:


> Who is "Activist High profile sportsman" never heard of him, neither it seems has google



how about this one...

"Activist Double for Nick"



mr griffin has a double does he


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> It's a matter of practicality, I reckon. As you yourself acknowledged, IIRC, this will spread and will have been so widely disseminated by now that to get everybody who either has a copy of the list or has passed on a copy would be impossible.



An argument could be made for a couple of random prosecutions of people a few of steps along the line from the original source, as a deterrent for future instances, in the same way as the music industry has attempted to do regarding music piracy. If anyone is interested in making the Data Protection Act a meaningful one, that is.


----------



## liampreston (Nov 19, 2008)

> Slaughterman (NVQS in slaughtering). Hobbies: football, motorbikes, sports



Like this one


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> it makes me feel warm inside.



Why?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> What about anyone else, though, who has knowingly and actively helped it reach a wide audience? Should they be subject to different treatment?



Concentrate on the real data criminals


----------



## editor (Nov 19, 2008)

Bakunin said:


> It's a matter of practicality, I reckon. As you yourself acknowledged, IIRC, this will spread and will have been so widely disseminated by now that to get everybody who either has a copy of the list or has passed on a copy would be impossible.


That's not really the point. If they could, for example, prove that you helped disseminate the information to named parties, then they could possibly construct a case against you.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

Obtaining information unlawfully disclosed is an offence.

S55 of the Data Protection Act 1998




			
				 DPA 1998 said:
			
		

> 55. Unlawful obtaining etc. of personal data.
> 
> — (1) A person must not knowingly or recklessly, without the consent of the data controller—
> (a) obtain or disclose personal data or the information contained in personal data, or
> (b) procure the disclosure to another person of the information contained in personal data.



Though they'd have a hard time going after everyone that's seen this data by now.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

as someone who was 'identified and outed' on the opposite end of the spectrum and faced all the threats these people will recieve (alluded to by Darios), i feel pretty uncomfortable with this gadarene rush to name names without considering the consequences. Many people may lose jobs over this, homes will be attacked, children bullied in school, ok you say, but one day, it may be the left who are the victims of such leaks and 'identified' It is also incredible how many of those who bleat constantly about intrusion of privacy, personal dat, are so quick to abandon principles. However, now it is out it will undoubtedly be a useful tool for anti-facists and strategy such as it is. I also think this will lead to a split in the BNP with a move to a more euro-nationalist approach which in terms of acheiving their goals may be more effective: eg, look at the situation in Rome with a former MSI mayor, etc, Fini in the Gov't, the anti-immigrant agenda now pushed by the People' Parties in Scandanavia,


btw, it doesnn't mean that i wouldn't have welcomed the info, just maybe not done it this way.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

Would viewing a registered site on the web though be a breach of this? If so it would appear that the Times are in trouble.

TomPaine


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

Potentially, though The Times does have a journalistic defence of their viewing being in the public interest under Subsection (2)


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

MC5 said:


> That assumes that the poster on NWN, who the quote is from, doesn't know the area he lives in and that butchersapron knows the area better?


tish and tosh. you're not really trying to argue such rubbish are you? i suspect that both you and the poster on NWN are saying that for the same reason - because you want to maximise the numbers who seem to have left.  hence, you both claim that one area where about half have left is 'probably' about average. whereas anyone with half a brain will know that extrapolating national stats from those of a single town is very very silly indeed. 



> How many members listed from the whole of Sheffield though?



mm, you dont understand stats do you? this is becoming obvious. there are about 140/150 members listed as sheff - of which a mere 2 are listed as lapsed/not renewing etc. One of them made a big fuss about leaving, and moved to the right. The other one hasn't left a new address, tho he might still be paying subs on DD, so it could only be one person leaving!  If we extrapolate from that to the whole of the country, that makes about 13,500 BNP members.  Fortunately I wouldn't be so daft as to do that


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> It is also incredible how many of those who bleat constantly about intrusion of privacy, personal dat, are so quick to abandon principles.



Yup.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

I presume though blogs etc. would claim the same though, since they would be classed as Indy media?
Also wouldn't the prosecutors have to prove that the list stolen was identicle to the list(s) being circulated now between the MSM, Indy Media and various groups? Especially if a lot of these peoples details are already in the public domain i.e. those who have stood in elections?

TomPaine


----------



## free spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

I reckon this one'll not be renewing her membership...



> Request for absolute confidentiality


----------



## lewislewis (Nov 19, 2008)

OK so the list has gone down now off the site I was reading, but a comment on NWN says '2 Scottish Premier footballers' are BNP members. Does anyone have any idea whom? Concerned it could affect the whole anti-racism drive in football at the moment.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

I can't fucking believe people on Indymedia are reposting details of BNP members children, what sort of people are they?


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 19, 2008)

i do have a few problems with this especially if names and addresses of peoples family members etc are being put online, and if it got into my hands i wouldn't have leaked it but if you're part of an organisation like that, you probably (although not always) know from the start there will be some real psychos there and the far right movement is riven with feuds, there are always people up for doing this sort of thing (or worse) so no real sympathy for them tbh


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

cybertect said:


> Obtaining information unlawfully disclosed is an offence.
> 
> S55 of the Data Protection Act 1998



S77 of the Criminal Justics & Immigration Act 2008 amends the 1998 Act to make it an imprisonable offence. 

Making use of the leaked data might draw unwarranted attention


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> I can't fucking believe people on Indymedia are reposting details of BNP members children, what sort of people are they?



yeah - but don't forget it might not have been anti-fash who leaked it but fash who are pissed off with the BNP for whatever reason (and god knows there are a lot of them about)


----------



## steve1971 (Nov 19, 2008)

"Discretion required re. employment concerns Police officer"

"Discretion requested (employment concerns) Government employee. IT consultant"

ooops


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 19, 2008)

i can see this backfiring to be honest  might even have been a deliberate ploy to boost sympathy


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

> Filed under: BNP, anti-fascist — Andy Newman @ 9:10 pm
> 
> Many of you will be aware that the entire BNP membership list has been pasted on-line. This gives names, and addresses, telephone numbers and e-mail addresses, and even lists hobbies. Activists are clearly marked to distinguish them from paper members. Unfortunately it also includes the ages of young members under eighteen years old.  For several reasons, I will not be permitting any comments on this blog that give a link to this data, nor that quote from it.  Firstly, this information can only be in the public domain through a breach of the data protection act, and I need to protect this web-site from any legal complications.
> 
> ...



http://socialistunity.com/
from the Socialist Unity website, bit surprising, though like some others he has been 'outed ' and knows how devastating it can be


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 19, 2008)

hence why i said - this might not be what it appears


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Would viewing a registered site on the web though be a breach of this? If so it would appear that the Times are in trouble.
> 
> TomPaine


almost definitely not. certainly wouldn't be prosecutable, far far too many reasons why anyone could claim to have come across the site without 'knowingly' looking for an accurate list of names and addresses.



TomPaine said:


> I presume though blogs etc. would claim the same though, since they would be classed as Indy media?
> Also wouldn't the prosecutors have to prove that the list stolen was identicle to the list(s) being circulated now between the MSM, Indy Media and various groups? Especially if a lot of these peoples details are already in the public domain i.e. those who have stood in elections?
> 
> TomPaine



blogs probably wouldn't, tho it might be an interesting test case. 'identicality' would make no difference as there would still be an overwhelming majority of the same info involved.  technically a single correct name and adress from the list would be enough for a prosecution, if it could be proved it came from the same 'master' list. the existence of some of the names being already in the public domain would also make no difference, as this wasn't a list of candidates, and there are other names included.

a strict enforcement of the law would mean that anyone who has asked for, or offered to send, e-mails of the list _would_ be prosecutable tho


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> I presume though blogs etc. would claim the same though, since they would be classed as Indy media?
> Also wouldn't the prosecutors have to prove that the list stolen was identicle to the list(s) being circulated now between the MSM, Indy Media and various groups? Especially if a lot of these peoples details are already in the public domain i.e. those who have stood in elections?
> 
> TomPaine



I imagine that demonstrating that obtaining the lists was in the public interest would be harder for them to show, given their nature.

Those people whose names are already in the public domain aren't going to be attracting attention - the 'interest' (in the broadest sense) in this list is in those whose names and personal details aren't in the public domain - footballers, witches, serving police officers, etc.

I think they could make it stick as far as showing that it's the same data;  there's plenty of precedent with database copying cases.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

Those kids details shouldn't have been added to that website, although I don't know if that would have made much of a difference judging by the Indymedia article and according to the Times article it has been on the go since Monday?

TomPaine


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 19, 2008)

is the full list still online?


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> a strict enforcement of the law would mean that anyone who has asked for, or offered to send, e-mails of the list would be prosecutable tho



That is interesting, as obviously people have posted it all over the web and of course the mainstream news paper articles have alerted peoples attentions to it, so people are naturally going to be inclined to be nosey and go search/ask for it.

TomPaine


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> is the full list still online?



Not sure to be honest. It was linked on a certain independent media website earlier today, but whether they have since taken it down I don't know.
However its content had been quoted under the article in various cases, which I presume they probably have removed.

TomPaine


----------



## soulman (Nov 19, 2008)

I don't see what all the fuss is about. I reckon any political party that stands in elections should have to make available their membership list and financial backers.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 19, 2008)

frogwoman said:


> is the full list still online?



the torrent is loose


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

soulman said:


> I don't see what all the fuss is about. I reckon any political party that stands in elections should have to make available their membership list and financial backers.



legal points 

1) The List was already subject of a High Court Injunction in April barring its use.

2) The data was (presumably) collected from the members for the purposes of administration of the party. In many cases that was plainly collected with a specific condition of confidentiality. Data Protection Act comes into force.

release into wild => fuss


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 19, 2008)

This thread is waaaay to long for me to read all of it at this time of night and I expect it's been posted before but check out The Register's report, there is a link in there to horrified BNP members comments



> I'm also on the list, what the fuck is going on? I could lose my job





> Fuck me, the reds have the list now.



The quotes go on later in this vein



> Awesome. Just awesome. Finally, you retards are getting what's coming to you.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> 1) The List was already subject of a High Court Injunction in April barring its use.



In which case, since the Times admit in their article to ringing people up on the list and publishing some of its details surely they will get fucked over this? I can imagine Joe Blogs who now has a blog article taking the piss out of the local BNP member who has a hobby like may pole dancing isn't going to be aware of that court action, but the Guardian and Times, well you would have thought they knew better?

TomPaine


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

> It's not as if they are hard to spot anyway.
> Now, someone leak the freemasons list, that would be much much more interesting.    Tim#3






this one is pretty sharp, I too would like to see the Free Masons membership'


----------



## soulman (Nov 19, 2008)

Sure I understand the legal aspects. But I'm expressing my opinion that any of these parties or groups who use the electoral system, big or small, left, right or anything else should have to make available details of their membership, financial backers and so on.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 19, 2008)

Found it, didn't take very long.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> but one day, it may be the left who are the victims of such leaks and 'identified'


_'one day'_??  it already has happened and does happen, why say anything otherwise?



> It is also incredible how many of those who bleat constantly about intrusion of privacy, personal dat, are so quick to abandon principles.


where is the hypocrisy?  spell it out. i see no explicit hypocrisy here at all. as with any other leak, i would expect those who are 'victims' to complain as forcefully as possible to the relevant organisation, that the Data Controller be removed from post, and that the organisation doing the leaking should be strongly reprimanded in ny way the law dictates. those reprinting the leaks must also be aware of the risk that they would be placing themselves under in doing so, and they must also be prepared to face those consequences. if not, they were very, very silly. tho i might well support them on a plea of genuine public interest, as i would with various other examples of such leaks



> However, now it is out it will undoubtedly be a useful tool for anti-facists and strategy such as it is.... btw, it doesnn't mean that i wouldn't have welcomed the info, just maybe not done it this way.



which would make you just as much of a hypocrite as those you just condemned.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

No it doesn't, i would think long and hard about putting info that meant people lost jobs in the public domain, you on the other hand come across like all Trots as someone who will say, the end always justifies the means'


----------



## Fingers (Nov 19, 2008)

Blogspot have just taken it down.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> No it doesn't, i would think long and hard about putting info that meant people lost jobs in the public domain, you on the other hand come across like all Trots as someone who will say, the end always justifies the means'



I haven't said anything of the kind, if could be arsed to read post. And if we are talking about how one comes across, you come across like all pathetic, whingeing, dreary, liberals, 'ooh, thats bad, but since it's there....' 

Anyway, any chance of you spelling out what you mean by 'abandoning principles'?


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

frogwoman said:


> is the full list still online?


You can get it the same way you can get other 'illegal downloads' (music/movies/games/porn/etc) ... so there isn't really any way to stop it being online for people who want it.

The only things that could get in the way would be things that people try to counteract illegal file-sharing: releasing 'wrecking' or infected decoys, the deterrant effect of serious legal action or filtering action at the ISP level, none of which are likely to happen or be possible/successful.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

Yeah and when you do a search on certain search engines there is the cache link, which kinda makes things difficult to remove.

TomPaine


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 19, 2008)

untethered said:


> How long before we get a "BNP members" Facebook application?



There is one now.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Yeah and when you do a search on certain search engines there is the cache link, which kinda makes things difficult to remove.
> 
> TomPaine


Theoretically the major internet players could be ordered to clean up? I read that they do this with child porn for example. This wouldn't apply to p2p tho' presumably?


----------



## october_lost (Nov 19, 2008)

Like someone else said, with email addresses you can get pictures through a facebook account. (Just wanting to put a face to a name etc, no genuine hint of violence etc)

Looked up one lad round the corner from me, hes listed as being in anti BNP group and hes bi-sexual  do I take it, hes no longer a member?


----------



## editor (Nov 19, 2008)

The Guardian have posted up an article about it: 





> The entire membership list of the British National party has been posted on the internet, identifying thousands of people as secret supporters of the far right and exposing many to the risk of dismissal from work, disciplinary action or vilification.
> 
> Around 13,500 names and home addresses were posted on a website late on Monday evening, apparently by a disgruntled member of the party's own leadership.
> 
> ...


It's going to _totally_ fuck up their hopes of attracting new members. Who's going to sign up to this useless bunch of incompetent  Charlies if there's a chance that their name, address and personal details could end up being plastered all over the web?

Shame, that, what?   



> Last night, internet chat rooms frequented by British supporters of the far right were buzzing with anger, indignation - and considerable alarm. One typical posting said: "The most shocking thing is some of the comments by the names! God help anyone who is in the army, the prison service, healthcare, a police officer or a teacher."
> 
> It is thought that the information commissioner, who enforces the Data Protection Act, may investigate the matter, looking not only at the posting of the membership list,* but at the amount of information that the BNP has been storing about its members*.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> In which case, since the Times admit in their article to ringing people up on the list and publishing some of its details surely they will get fucked over this?



The injunction was taken out at Manchester High Court against six members of the BNP over an allegation of breach of confidence pending a civil suit. 

Depending how it was worded, I don't think it's likely that The Times itself would be bound by that injunction [?]


----------



## isitme (Nov 19, 2008)

Just the fact that people are pissed off because they have been found out as members says it all imo


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

editor said:


> > It is thought that the information commissioner, who enforces the Data Protection Act, may investigate the matter, looking not only at the posting of the membership list, but at the amount of information that the BNP has been storing about its members.
> 
> 
> 
> Shame, that, what?



aah yes, any such info must contain only that that is strictly relevant and necessary. Any comments about those on the list must be equally relevant.  So 'documentation seen' (or whatever the phrase re seeing the dole card/pension book was) is fine, but reasons for leaving are highly dubious. Oh dear.

Will the liberals getting in such a huff about this 'shameful' leak now suddenly change their minds, considering the BNP were shamelessly breaking the DPA all along, i wonder?


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> but reasons for leaving are highly dubious. Oh dear.



So many of them seem to be over the 1st year membership renewal fee. I reckon the BNP need to look at that


----------



## Kaye (Nov 19, 2008)

I pmed a couple of people asking for it - don't worry - a google gives about 40 sites with it - so I've got it.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 19, 2008)

Kaye said:


> I pmed a couple of people asking for it - don't worry - a google gives about 40 sites with it - so I've got it.



How many will that be by the morning?


----------



## blackadder (Nov 19, 2008)

longdog said:


> I found it
> 
> I won't say where as it seems there is an injunction but Google is your friend




I saw your dog on it. 

On a serious note, there are going to be a lot of families on their witts ends over the next couple of days, all because one stupid cunt in that family joined up to the scum.


----------



## lizzieloo (Nov 19, 2008)

There is someone listed on there as 





> Former policeman. Lecturer in human rights/data protection


----------



## goebfwai (Nov 19, 2008)

Much as I disagree with the BNP's racially obsessive, anti-immigration stance,
and their history of homophobia and anti-semitism, I'd like to sound a note of caution
regarding the premature jubilation over the publication of this list. 

Whatever people might think about the politics of the BNP or BNP members
it is appalling that their confidential membership list has been published in this way.

Some people might think it perfectly acceptable that during the most severe, unfolding
recession in decades, BNP members working in teaching, the police, nursing and other areas
now face seeing their livelihoods and that of their families put at risk.

I do not.  It is like McCarthyism in reverse, and we know what a tumult that era turned out to be.

It would seem more than coincidential that during the biggest economic crisis of capitalism in decades, when socialism and progressive, pro-people movements are in the ascendency, that this list should be leaked at this time.  The publication of this list runs the serious risk of provoking a mini-war between the left/far left and far right.

Never forget the words of  Jay Gould (known as the 'Mephistopheles of Wall Street'):

"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half." 

Don't fall into the trap.


----------



## Jonti (Nov 19, 2008)

sleeperservice said:


> as the boss says, don't bother posting it.
> 
> if you know how to use google or twitter you can find the site within about 30 seconds.


Enter into google 
	
	



```
BNP membership list download
```
and the top link is to a bittorrent download (apols if this info already posted ...)

Seeding now ...


----------



## Jonti (Nov 19, 2008)

> ...Some people might think it perfectly acceptable that during the most severe, unfolding recession in decades we should strive to prevent a fascist resurgence


Fixed it for you.


----------



## Clint Iguana (Nov 19, 2008)

It has been taken down from the blogspot site now


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 19, 2008)

2 points - one, Griffin's just been on the radio bleating on about why there's nothing to be ashamed of about being a BNP member, so why would their members fear losing their jobs unless quite clearly there is a wider public revulsion for their quasi-racist policies? Two, Griffin invoked the Human Rights legislation and the right to privacy as being their strategy for purusing legal action with the cops, despite the fact that one of their policies is the abolition of this legislation - a tad hypocritical to say the least methinks.


----------



## El Jefe (Nov 19, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> 2 points - one, Griffin's just been on the radio bleating on about why there's nothing to be ashamed of about being a BNP member, so why would their members fear losing their jobs unless quite clearly there is a wider public revulsion for their quasi-racist policies? Two, Griffin invoked the Human Rights legislation and the right to privacy as being their strategy for purusing legal action with the cops, despite the fact that one of their policies is the abolition of this legislation - a tad hypocritical to say the least methinks.



quite. It doesn't take any vigilanteism or anything for this leak to have an effect. The simple fact of it being out there is going to cause the BNP a huge amount of problems in itself. In terms of recruiting, of image, of exposing inconsistencies and hypocrisies.


----------



## rhod (Nov 19, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> 2 points - one, Griffin's just been on the radio bleating on about why there's nothing to be ashamed of about being a BNP member



He was quite desperately trying to put a good spin on events, claiming that the revelations showed what a diverse and well educated bunch they are.. yeah, I bet they're thrilled to be on so many new Christmas card lists....


----------



## Jonti (Nov 19, 2008)

> Without doubt, the most damaging thing about this list, is the vast amount of BNP members who are also parliamentary candidates and members in other parties.


An interesting comment form the NorthWestNationalists' blog at blogger.com.

Speaks for itself, really.  

* waves at local fascists


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 19, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> 2 points - one, Griffin's just been on the radio bleating on about why there's nothing to be ashamed of about being a BNP member, so why would their members fear losing their jobs unless quite clearly there is a wider public revulsion for their quasi-racist policies? Two, Griffin invoked the Human Rights legislation and the right to privacy as being their strategy for purusing legal action with the cops, despite the fact that one of their policies is the abolition of this legislation - a tad hypocritical to say the least methinks.



I don't he has any choice but to put a brave face on it.

I wonder if the uber-fuhrer will resign over it? I bet he doesn't.


----------



## PacificOcean (Nov 19, 2008)

Would it be bad form to email any of these people?  Nothing threatening obviously.


----------



## hammerntongues (Nov 19, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Would it be bad form to email any of these people?  Nothing threatening obviously.




Coincidentally I have just been looking on Tripadvisor and one of the threads I was particpitating on just had a message come up saying " hello BNP scum " to one of the posters.


----------



## rhod (Nov 19, 2008)

meanwhile, over at Uber-Fuhrer's BlogSpot HQ...


Happy Days are Here Again....









_"I've got a phD, you know"

"Ooooh you saucy tinker"_


----------



## A Dashing Blade (Nov 19, 2008)

On wikileaks now.


----------



## embree (Nov 19, 2008)

tbh, fuck all the nazi hugging - they deserve it. The very fact that they're members of a fascist organisation is evidence enough that given half a chance they'd do the same to all of us that oppose them, and more, is enough for them to lose any sympathy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

Who was it that said they'd done a google maps of this?


----------



## maximilian ping (Nov 19, 2008)

any way of getting list without all this torrent shit?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

maximilian ping said:


> any way of getting list without all this torrent shit?



PM me your email address and I'll forward you the word copy I have.


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

embree said:


> tbh, fuck all the nazi hugging - they deserve it. The very fact that they're members of a fascist organisation is evidence enough that given half a chance they'd do the same to all of us that oppose them, and more, is enough for them to lose any sympathy.


 

Aye.  That's my take on it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 19, 2008)

*lolcunts*


----------



## maximilian ping (Nov 19, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> PM me your email address and I'll forward you the word copy I have.



thanks, have PM'd


----------



## maximilian ping (Nov 19, 2008)

embree said:


> tbh, fuck all the nazi hugging - they deserve it. The very fact that they're members of a fascist organisation is evidence enough that given half a chance they'd do the same to all of us that oppose them, and more, is enough for them to lose any sympathy.



exactly. all that crap about children being on the list to deflect from the fact they are total c*nts


----------



## _pH_ (Nov 19, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


>


----------



## Crispy (Nov 19, 2008)

maximilian ping said:


> any way of getting list without all this torrent shit?


it's on wikileaks now


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 19, 2008)

_pH_ said:


>



Let's face it, it didn't really happen until it was captioned.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 19, 2008)

Jonti said:


> Seeding now ...



Fuckin excellent - cheers folks ))


----------



## Ted Striker (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm quite surprised at the volume of people on here that think this is fair game.

Suspected racist scum (all fully paid up neanderthals that partake in nothing more than going out on a weekend and murdering 'niggers' of course) don't have a right to privacy, no?

What if it was a list of paedophiles? *ducks*


----------



## Ted Striker (Nov 19, 2008)

editor said:


> The Guardian have posted up an article about it: It's going to _totally_ fuck up their hopes of attracting new members. Who's going to sign up to this useless bunch of incompetent  Charlies if there's a chance that their name, address and personal details could end up being plastered all over the web?
> 
> Shame, that, what?



And this is how we want them 'beat'?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 19, 2008)

Ted Striker said:


> And this is how we want them 'beat'?



Every little helps. (TM)


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 19, 2008)

There's about half a dozen members in Brixton


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

goebfwai said:


> I do not.  It is like McCarthyism in reverse, and we know what a tumult that era turned out to be.


no, it isn't



> Never forget the words of  Jay Gould (known as the 'Mephistopheles of Wall Street'):
> 
> "I am a money grabbing, union-busting, self-serving little shit."



fuck him


----------



## Belushi (Nov 19, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> There's about half a dozen members in Brixton



If you've got a link to it can you PM me?

I want to check if anyone I know is on there


----------



## El Jefe (Nov 19, 2008)

there are some complex issues surrounding this, some of the points raised in opposition to the distribution of the list do have some merit.

but, you know what?

Fuck 'em.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 19, 2008)

Belushi said:


> If you've got a link to it can you PM me?
> 
> I want to check if anyone I know is on there



I just got the Excel list from wikileaks and sorted it by postcode - will send you the link

I notice that only 1 is from SW9 and 4 are from SW2, proving my suspicions about those SW2 scum


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 19, 2008)

THE LIST said:
			
		

> YBNP Sup Club. Family: **********. Under 16s Comps slip. *Discretion required re. employment concerns
> Police officer*




See ya!


----------



## Kanda (Nov 19, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> proving my suspicions about those SW2 scum



!!!! FU!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> there are some complex issues surrounding this, some of the points raised in opposition to the distribution of the list do have some merit.
> 
> but, you know what?
> 
> Fuck 'em.



Heh pretty much. You know someone just said to me that this will have a bigger impact on the them than 30 years of anti-fascist work...


----------



## exleper (Nov 19, 2008)

Anyone catch Griffin being interviewed on the Today programme this morning?  The interview is on the BBC news website now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7736794.stm

It's quite entertaining to hear John Humphreys lay into him about the beautiful irony of them using the Human Rights act to take legal action.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 19, 2008)

Belushi said:


> If you've got a link to it can you PM me?
> 
> I want to check if anyone I know is on there


go to wikileaks, its currently at the top of 'Latest Disclosures and Censorship' on front page. might take you some time to check individuals, there are ~12,000 names in total.....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

Also, you can pm me your email addy if you want it in word format.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 19, 2008)

exleper said:


> It's quite entertaining to hear John Humphreys lay into him about the beautiful irony of them using the Human Rights act to take legal action.


I noticed that irony. Bunch of fucking hypocrites. Can't we even get fascists with the courage of their convictions goddamn it?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

sleep safely



> Former policeman (anti-terrorist branch, Met)





> Former policeman (international security/counter terrorism)


----------



## Meltingpot (Nov 19, 2008)

editor said:


> The Guardian have posted up an article about it: It's going to _totally_ fuck up their hopes of attracting new members. Who's going to sign up to this useless bunch of incompetent Charlies if there's a chance that their name, address and personal details could end up being plastered all over the Web?



There's a good discussion of this on CiF today.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2008/nov/19/bnp-privacy

BTW, there's a difference between "useless and incompetent" and "failing to take adequate security measures against disgruntled former members with access to privileged data." That could even happen to this place.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> no, it isn't



In what way is it not McCarthyism in reverse?


----------



## dogmatique (Nov 19, 2008)

One of the nice people on this list is a neighbour of a friend of mine.  And wait for it... a teacher.

Nasty can of worms...


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

Brainaddict said:


> I noticed that irony. Bunch of fucking hypocrites. Can't we even get fascists with the courage of their convictions goddamn it?



There may be some irony but it's not necessarily hypocritical. They are just using the tools available to them, surely. It's certainly no more hypocritical than anyone in favour of the Human Rights act supporting and aiding the leak of the information.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 19, 2008)

Ted Striker said:


> I'm quite surprised at the volume of people on here that think this is fair game.



I think it's called shaudenfreuder


----------



## In Bloom (Nov 19, 2008)

The best part of all this is all the infighting it's caused with the fascists.  Looks like Griffin's in serious shit


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

In Bloom said:


> The best part of all this is all the infighting it's caused with the fascists.  Looks like Griffin's in serious shit



Yup!


----------



## CyberRose (Nov 19, 2008)

> HM Forces (3 tours N.I). Rhoesian Security Forces. Freelance security: Africa/South America/Europe. Hobbies: military history.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

This is a hypocrisy bonus all round. Hypocrisy from the BNP for keeping overly detailed records on their members (which the DPO has said it will be investigating), hypocrisy of the BNP using the HRA to get distribution of the list shut down, and hypocrisy of anyone who's ever cried about privacy and the govt now crowing about how righteous this whole situation is.

It's a rollicking laugh, and no mistake. 

Now, I hold that BNP members have their right to privacy same as anyone else, especially if this was indeed based around theft and released via an ex-member, however, I'm not going to shed any tears over the fuckers being exposed tho - perhaps political party membership should be publicly available knowledge?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Nov 19, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh pretty much. You know someone just said to me that this will have a bigger impact on the them than 30 years of anti-fascist work...



What a joke. This is a huge own goal. First of all the membership figures are about 25% higher than any previous estimates. Secondly the breakdown displays the broad social make-up of the membership. Something the BNP have themselves been keen to emphasise, but many doubted. Thirdly, nothing will happen to the overwhelming majority of those listed, (apart from anonymous phone calls/o emails 'when the revolution comes, you will be the first...') which exposes the weaknesss of the opposition. Plus the BNP will get another welcome shot in the arm in terms of publicity. BNP members have for example been on Radio Five live all morning expanding on their reasons for joining BNP and why this makes them more determined and so on. Finally the whole affair locks the BNP into the position of 'radical alternative' in the public mind. That the whole stunt was engineered by Searchlight/M15 in order to try and stymie the potential flood of recruits from the near defunct UKIP demonstrates the desperate and short term nature of the 'anti-fascist 
strategists'.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> I'm not going to shed any tears over the fuckers being exposed tho - perhaps political party membership should be publicly available knowledge?




Even if one of them were to be subject to harassment/attack on them or perhaps more importantly, their family?


----------



## Griff (Nov 19, 2008)

Can I have a PM of the list too. 

Cheers.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

I wouldn't shed a tear over the issue, no - altho any anti-fash or anyone else who resorts to using the same tactics and methods as the BNP are equally scummy IMV.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> perhaps political party membership should be publicly available knowledge?



This is the case in the US, isn't it?


----------



## exleper (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> In what way is it not McCarthyism in reverse?


Well, Mccarthyism was a devastating and vicious set of attacks by govt-backed institutions which had the power to remove people from mainstream society.

This is a list of addresses of a bunch of racists made public.

If it means a few racist policemen lose their lobs because of it, then so be it, the police will be better off as a result.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 19, 2008)

Griff said:


> Can I have a PM of the list too.
> 
> Cheers.



Send me your email address


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> In what way is it not McCarthyism in reverse?


I've not noticed any investigations, panel enquiries or targetting of alleged sympathisers to date. I haven't noticed anyone being put in prison as a result of the furore to date. Has the UK government set up anything similar to HUAC yet? Not that I've noticed. Come on, you can do better than this.


----------



## Griff (Nov 19, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Send me your email address



Done.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> I wouldn't shed a tear over the issue, no - altho any anti-fash or anyone else who resorts to using the same tactics and methods as the BNP are equally scummy IMV.



So if a 10 year old child were to get beaten up because his parents are a member of thr BNP you "wouldn't shed a tear?"


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 19, 2008)

Now the laughter is dying down a bit - a sensible take on things here:
http://irdial.com/blogdial/?p=1445


----------



## Darios (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> as someone who was 'identified and outed' on the opposite end of the spectrum and faced all the threats these people will recieve (alluded to by Darios), i feel pretty uncomfortable with this gadarene rush to name names without considering the consequences. Many people may lose jobs over this, homes will be attacked, children bullied in school, ok you say, but one day, it may be the left who are the victims of such leaks and 'identified' It is also incredible how many of those who bleat constantly about intrusion of privacy, personal dat, are so quick to abandon principles.



Thanks for speaking out TL.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 19, 2008)




----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

Barking_Mad said:


> So if a 10 year old child were to get beaten up because his parents are a member of thr BNP you "wouldn't shed a tear?"



Personally no, because I know 2 famlilies whose under-10s were harrassed by a couple of BNP members and they had no compunctions about violence being done to the kids in these two families. Live by the sword, die by the sword, however I wouldn't be praising those antifash who beat up on little kids or encouraged anyone to use BNP harrasment tactics either.


----------



## Darios (Nov 19, 2008)

So Belboid, what's your plan for the "140/150" members in Sheffield?

Letter writing campaign? Phone calls? Lose them their jobs? House visits?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> There may be some irony but it's not necessarily hypocritical. They are just using the tools available to them, surely. It's certainly no more hypocritical than anyone in favour of the Human Rights act supporting and aiding the leak of the information.



but they want it repealed! surely you can see that they are showing themselves up for the sadcase 2 faced twisted childish fucks that they are?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Personally no, because I know 2 famlilies whose under-10s were harrassed by a couple of BNP members and they had no compunctions about violence being done to the kids in these two families. Live by the sword, die by the sword, however I wouldn't be praising those antifash who beat up on little kids or encouraged anyone to use BNP harrasment tactics either.



And so it begins.........


----------



## JimPage (Nov 19, 2008)

Several things

Whoever leaked the uncensored list is unhinged- and psychotic. They know full well that while organised militant antifascist groups like Antifa would not go round beating up 14 year old fash at their home addresses, some less disciplined individuals would.

From the date of the list- tail end of 2007 its pretty clear who the leakers were- and they clearly are more interested in saving their own butts in the court case against them on 6th December than the personal security of their erstwhile comrades.  The case was all about the return on membership lists they nicked last year, and now the lists are in the public domain, they can hand back the lists, and still access them on the sites they are now posted on. 

One question. Will this help, or hinder, the BNPs support amoung the voting public. Will this stop BNP Votes like the 42% they polled in Boston last week?
Will this stop they getting into Europe, and winning county council seats in Derbyshire, Leicestershire and Warwickshire next year? And where is the working class policial alternative to stop them?.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 19, 2008)

One down!!!

9999 to go


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 19, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> there are some complex issues surrounding this, some of the points raised in opposition to the distribution of the list do have some merit.
> 
> but, you know what?
> 
> Fuck 'em.



I've been trying to think about my response to the leak of the list and tbh this is the closet I can get. 

On the one hand I think people should have the right to privacy and I could be persuaded that it shouldn't have been leaked but on the other hand that would be rather hypocritical as I am currently perusing the list and thinking "you fascist fuckers"


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

Barking_Mad said:


> And so it begins.........



And so what begins?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> And so what begins?



People being indifferent to violence against innocents in order to justify some internal desire for retribution.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

Ah, oh well.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

> So Belboid, what's your plan for the "140/150" members in Sheffield?




That is some number, much more than than all the far left combined and quite unerving.

btw, surprised at you, KS, you gonna DO THE BEATING?


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

Nope, and if I saw it I'd step in and (try to) stop it, but if it was reported I wouldn't shed a tear. No it isn't consistent, but then everyone's allowed the occassional inconsistency, no?


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

a 14 year old kid being beated by 'red fascists' is not a good advert for the left and is morally reprehensible.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

Yes, which is why I said:



> however I wouldn't be praising those antifash who beat up on little kids or encouraged anyone to use BNP harrasment tactics either.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> anyone copunted up how many people are listed, yet?



12802


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> a 14 year old kid being beated by 'red fascists' is not a good advert for the left and is morally reprehensible.



But then if you'd read my posts instead of wading in accusing me of wanting to beat up little kids you'd have noticed that.


----------



## Griff (Nov 19, 2008)

LOL! my miserable cunt of a neighbour from when I lived in Epping is on that list. 

God, I hated that fucking cunt!


----------



## CRI (Nov 19, 2008)

Although it may be impossible with the list being plastered over the interweb now, I think the best course of action is for those on the left to distance themselves from it and let the BNP stew in their own filthy juices.  Griffin's already admitted it was probably a disgruntled ex-employee what leaked it - nowt to do with any of their opponents.  (Think he missed a trick by not at least trying to attribute it to the lefties, but I think the dude's not the sharpest knife in the drawer.)


----------



## maximilian ping (Nov 19, 2008)

good picks from the list here http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/11/413120.html?c=on

a witch, a lecturer in human rights, a copper, prison officer etc!


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Nope, and if I saw it I'd step in and (try to) stop it, but if it was reported I wouldn't shed a tear. No it isn't consistent, but then everyone's allowed the occassional inconsistency, no?



Depends what you're being inconsistent about I suppose, but not condemning violence against innocent people, who may be too young to know any different, is most likely not one of the better ones. Worse still they might get entirely the wrong person. Still, once you've mentally opened the door to violence as a tool of problem solving, you have to reap the consequences.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

You're strawmanning me. All I said was I wouldn't shed a tear over it happening - not showing remorse isn't the same as not saying it's wrong (which it is), or showing support for something.

You know my views on this, you also know my views on the cycle of violence, revolutions and how non-violence is the only way society will ever, ever change long term - but that doesn't change the way that I would _feel_ (not think, not asses, have an emtional reaction) knowing that some scum BNP family - and their kids won't be wide eyed innocents either, by 10 they'll know how to hate - know what terror is, know what it is to be scared to leave your house. Maybe then a few of the pricks would think twice about dropping shit through people's letterboxs, from graffiting walls, for yelling abuse at people when they take their kids to school - maybe even realising that teaching your kids to beat the crap out of people for having brown skins is _wrong_.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 19, 2008)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> One down!!!
> 
> 9999 to go





> A Merseyside officer was allegedly named in a list of 12,000 party members published on a blog.
> 
> Serving officers are banned from joining the far-right party.
> 
> ...


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> I've not noticed any investigations, panel enquiries or targetting of alleged sympathisers to date. I haven't noticed anyone being put in prison as a result of the furore to date. Has the UK government set up anything similar to HUAC yet? Not that I've noticed. Come on, you can do better than this.



Of course none of this is happening at the moment. But some of the comments on this thread suggest that people would like to see people (and their families) harassed (potentially physically) or sacked from their jobs simply because of their political views. In fact, not even because of their political views, _simply because they are a member of a legitimate political organisation_.

That a large number of people seem to hold this view I find disappointing and worrying, and I don't think it's invalid to compare it with McCarthyism.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 19, 2008)

Could I have a copy of a list? I'm too crap to find it on the Internet.

Edit: okay now, found it.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

> These people deserved to be named and shamed. The inclusion of their jobs and hobbies only further goes to show that racism is a disease that has infected many different types of people. Racism is not a valid political stance and cannot be tolerated or allowed. Let's hope that this goes some way to stamping it out and wiping the BNP off our countries political conscience. I for one am sickened by it's existence. All men are my brothers, regardless of colour or beliefs. No, the BNP do not have rights. Justice and dignity for all. For the BNP members, this means correction and education.




Why not send them to re-education camps, like this poster on CIF demands, tthis poster on CIF alarms me as much as the BNP, he or she sounds like a zealot who would do anything to purge us of our sins.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Of course none of this is happening at the moment. But some of the comments on this thread suggest that people would like to see people (and their families) harassed (potentially physically) or sacked from their jobs simply because of their political views. In fact, not even because of their political views, _simply because they are a member of a legitimate political organisation_.
> 
> That a large number of people seem to hold this view I find disappointing and worrying, and I don't think it's invalid to compare it with McCarthyism.



It stems from the same root, and it's always good to find the authoritarians (altho as has been suggested elsewhere, a cross reference with statements about privacy campaign, tho somewhat McCarthyite itself, would be interesting) BUT it's not HUAC by a long, long shot.


----------



## exleper (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Of course none of this is happening at the moment. But some of the comments on this thread suggest that people would like to see people (and their families) harassed (potentially physically) or sacked from their jobs simply because of their political views. In fact, not even because of their political views, _simply because they are a member of a legitimate political organisation_.
> 
> That a large number of people seem to hold this view I find disappointing and worrying, and I don't think it's invalid to compare it with McCarthyism.


No, I think it is quite invalid.  You're not mentioning that these political views they hold are probably racist.  Prejudices based on skin colour or nationality.  For people who work in the police, I would have thought racism might have an adverse effect on other people's lives.  If you hold these sort of extreme views then I don't think it's unreasonable to be asked to leave your job. How on earth could a policeman carry out an investigation objectively if he already holds this prejudice?

The question of whether the BNP is a legitimate political organisation is somewhat debatable, too.

Look, it's clear that there are some shaky grounds that people are using this list on, but I think it's morally reprehensible to defend these people who themselves are morally deficient by virtue of their membership with this party.  And you really should not compare to this McCarthyism - you're either being slightly hyperbolic or showing a lack of understanding of what the term means.


----------



## BlockUp (Nov 19, 2008)

Type your postcode into this and it'll show you all the BNP members near you, then click their names to see their homes marked on a map.

http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

some of this is well out of date, I don't think Roy James is still a member, in fact i think he changed his views after many arguments/debates on local discussions sites


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 19, 2008)

BlockUp said:


> Type your postcode into this and it'll show you all the BNP members near you, then click their names to see their homes marked on a map.
> 
> http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/



Fucking hell, someone's been busy there


----------



## chilango (Nov 19, 2008)

BlockUp said:


> Type your postcode into this and it'll show you all the BNP members near you, then click their names to see their homes marked on a map.
> 
> http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/



That_ is _scary.



On a whole number of levels.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

while people across the net are creaming themselves about the list, (especially on indymedia, which is now a joke) the issues that have allowed the BNP to grow and which have largely been ignored by the left and civil society still fester and accumulate.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> You're strawmanning me. All I said was I wouldn't shed a tear over it happening - not showing remorse isn't the same as not saying it's wrong (which it is), or showing support for something.



Im not strawmanning you at all. You have repeated twice that if you found out an innocent person was hurt as a result of an attack against someone on that list that you "wouldn't shed a tear" or 'wouldn't show any remorse'.

I guarantee that most people who have given up the BNP and have seen the error of their ways have not done so as a result of a beating. What is more I doubt that their kids would be liable to change their views as a result of seeing their Dad beaten up.

Conversely some children can think for themselves and therefore differently to their relatives and should not be the target of violence for simply being related to a BNP member.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 19, 2008)

Does that postcode finder work for people? It's showing surprisingly few people near me considering I'm on the edge of Bermondsey.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> It stems from the same root, and it's always good to find the authoritarians (altho as has been suggested elsewhere, a cross reference with statements about privacy campaign, tho somewhat McCarthyite itself, would be interesting) BUT it's not HUAC by a long, long shot.


I'm a little torn on this one, as I'm one of those who believes that we should have stronger privacy laws.

On the other hand, I consider the BNP to be my enemy, pure and simple. As such, I'd use info I had on them if I could, regardless of the legality of it. I have a lot of sympathy for Butchersapron's suggestion on another thread that he would not have made the list public, but that he would have made use of it. I can't say I give a shit that some people might lose their jobs over this. Good. Stupid racist cunts.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Of course none of this is happening at the moment. But some of the comments on this thread suggest that people would like to see people (and their families) harassed (potentially physically) or sacked from their jobs simply because of their political views. In fact, not even because of their political views, _simply because they are a member of a legitimate political organisation_.
> 
> That a large number of people seem to hold this view I find disappointing and worrying, and I don't think it's invalid to compare it with McCarthyism.


I do. This is (probably) a one-off event, that appears to have caused some embarassment and possibly a couple of coppers to lose their jobs at worst/best (however you want to frame it). Whatever people on here say they feel about the people on the list is essentially meaningless, unless we find out that any kind of direct action has occured by a poster here. And i'm not so sure its that easy to separate out "political views" from "membership of a political organisation", when the two are so very intertwined in the case of "extreme" politics.

Don't forget also, for eg, that elements of the far-right have been pushing things like Redwatch for a long while, promising all kinds of retribution against "left-sympathising" people (many of whom are simply attending demonstrations) with pictures, names and addresses printed. Where does activity like that sit with your rather grand allusions to McCarthyism, a program that lasted for years and which questioned people's patriotism and used demagoguery as its basis, much in the way that the BNP actually frame their public policies?


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

Not as scary as the amount of people who think that racism is a legitimate response to their social concerns.  For fuck sake people, you think they "don't know any better"?  How fucking patronising can you be, of course people know what the BNP are and what they stand for.  You think teenagers don't understand racism?  I knew racism was wrong when I was ateenager, and when I joined in with white, asian, black and jewish kids to stop c18 youths attacking us by uniting en masse and defending ourselves where necessary.  Each and every person on this list has joined a party who seek to scapegoat ethnic minorities for the problems of society.  That's the truth.  Whether they beleive in using violence or the law (which becomes violence if anyone tries to resist), well, who knows that.  But each person on that list is a cowardly ignorant shitehawk who will quite happily unleash the power of the state against us, our friends, our families, our communities.  You want to defend their rights to work towards dragging our brothers and sisters out of their bed and ship them off to homes they've never known, then you're as bad as them.  Yeah, yeah, issues of consistency etc etc, but when these cunts are involved consistency is not the big issue.  Stop hugging nazis, mollycoddling them as if they're some sort of child that can't make up it's own mind.  they have eyes and brains and that's all you need to know that racial discrimination is a cunt's game.  Fuck 'em.


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> while people across the net are creaming themselves about the list, (especially on indymedia, which is now a joke) the issues that have allowed the BNP to grow and which have largely been ignored by the left and civil society still fester and accumulate.


 
Just because the left has nothing to offer anymore doesn;t mean that racism is acceptable.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 19, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> Yeah, yeah, issues of consistency etc etc, but when these cunts are involved consistency is not the big issue.


Yep. I have to say, in this case, bollocks to consistency. 

However much you refine the law, there will always be cases where people who agree with that law in principle feel that there is a greater principle at stake and take the unilateral decision to break the law. 

It's called having a conscience.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

No, but i wonder what people would think if a list of the membership of the more extreme Islamic Fundamentalist groups in the UK was leaked, some of these deny the holocaust for example, i hate double standards..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> No, but i wonder what people would think if a list of the membership of the more extreme Islamic Fundamentalist groups in the UK was leaked, some of these deny the holocaust for example, i hate double standards..


I would think the same way.

I think we need some clarity here. This is not a list of BNP voters (who maybe, just maybe, are no worse than misguided idiots). This is a list of BNP members, who are, to a man or woman, utter cunts.


----------



## El Jefe (Nov 19, 2008)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. I have to say, in this case, bollocks to consistency.
> 
> However much you refine the law, there will always be cases where people who agree with that law in principle feel that there is a greater principle at stake and take the unilateral decision to break the law.
> 
> It's called having a conscience.



Absofuckinglutely.

Perhaps there are elements of what someone could try and turn into 'hypocrisy'. It'd be a wanker's argument and i really don't care.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 19, 2008)

christ, the Guardian are going for it with their coverage - take a look at the frontpage of their website


----------



## chilango (Nov 19, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> Not as scary as the amount of people who think that racism is a legitimate response to their social concerns.  For fuck sake people, you think they "don't know any better"?  How fucking patronising can you be, of course people know what the BNP are and what they stand for.  You think teenagers don't understand racism?  I knew racism was wrong when I was ateenager, and when I joined in with white, asian, black and jewish kids to stop c18 youths attacking us by uniting en masse and defending ourselves where necessary.  Each and every person on this list has joined a party who seek to scapegoat ethnic minorities for the problems of society.  That's the truth.  Whether they beleive in using violence or the law (which becomes violence if anyone tries to resist), well, who knows that.  But each person on that list is a cowardly ignorant shitehawk who will quite happily unleash the power of the state against us, our friends, our families, our communities.  You want to defend their rights to work towards dragging our brothers and sisters out of their bed and ship them off to homes they've never known, then you're as bad as them.  Yeah, yeah, issues of consistency etc etc, but when these cunts are involved consistency is not the big issue.  Stop hugging nazis, mollycoddling them as if they're some sort of child that can't make up it's own mind.  they have eyes and brains and that's all you need to know that racial discrimination is a cunt's game.  Fuck 'em.



yeah.

what i meant was scary was that postacode thing...that:

a)there's BNPers in the most unlikely places. and theres lots of 'em

b) its also scary how quickly easy technology can be used to produce this kinda thing.


----------



## El Jefe (Nov 19, 2008)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think we need some clarity here. This is not a list of BNP voters (who maybe, just maybe, are no worse than misguided idiots). This is a list of BNP members, who are, to a man or woman, utter cunts.



a crucial point, i think


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 19, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> Not as scary as the amount of people who think that racism is a legitimate response to their social concerns.  For fuck sake people, you think they "don't know any better"?  How fucking patronising can you be, of course people know what the BNP are and what they stand for.  You think teenagers don't understand racism?  I knew racism was wrong when I was ateenager, and when I joined in with white, asian, black and jewish kids to stop c18 youths attacking us by uniting en masse and defending ourselves where necessary.  Each and every person on this list has joined a party who seek to scapegoat ethnic minorities for the problems of society.  That's the truth.  Whether they beleive in using violence or the law (which becomes violence if anyone tries to resist), well, who knows that.  But each person on that list is a cowardly ignorant shitehawk who will quite happily unleash the power of the state against us, our friends, our families, our communities.  You want to defend their rights to work towards dragging our brothers and sisters out of their bed and ship them off to homes they've never known, then you're as bad as them.  Yeah, yeah, issues of consistency etc etc, but when these cunts are involved consistency is not the big issue.  Stop hugging nazis, mollycoddling them as if they're some sort of child that can't make up it's own mind.  they have eyes and brains and that's all you need to know that racial discrimination is a cunt's game.  Fuck 'em.



<applauds>




treelover said:


> what people would think if a list of the membership of the more extreme Islamic Fundamentalist groups in the UK was leaked, some of these deny the holocaust for example



I'd think it was a very good thing, a cunt is a cunt, no matter what side of the fence they're on.


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

Bring it on, always good to be able to identify these idiots.  Personally I reckon that once you're working to institutionalise discrimination you're fair game.  The fundies are a little different, as they're not seeking political power, they're just an isolated gang of nutters.  But hell, let's have their names, and where we can find them.  Perhaps if we give them the BNP's details, and the BNP their details, the rest of us can sit back and enjoy them killing each other.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

> christ, the Guardian are going for it with their coverage - take a look at the frontpage of their website




more advertising hits,


----------



## El Jefe (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> more advertising hits,



you can be too fucking cynical, you know. It can be a bit debilitating


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> That is some number, much more than than all the far left combined and quite unerving.
> 
> btw, surprised at you, KS, you gonna DO THE BEATING?



any chance of you coming back on the points put to you TL?  An explanation of what you meant by 'abandoning principles'??



treelover said:


> some of this is well out of date, I don't think Roy James is still a member, in fact i think he changed his views after many arguments/debates on local discussions sites



the list says he isn't renewing already, because of the treatment of another member, not because of any discussions on the sheffieldforum


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

Just out of interest has such a leak ever occurred in other countries? , eg France and the FN, and what was the response. I think you have to accept there will always be people with reprehensible views, how you deal with that is another question.,


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> you can be too fucking cynical, you know. It can be a bit debilitating



being debilitating is treelovers whole point


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> Just out of interest has such a leak ever occurred in other countries? , eg France and the FN, and what was the response. I think you have to accept there will always be people with reprehensible views, how you deal with that is another question.,


What do you mean by 'have to accept'?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> Absofuckinglutely.
> 
> Perhaps there are elements of what someone could try and turn into 'hypocrisy'. It'd be a wanker's argument and i really don't care.



Engaging.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

What do you mean by 'have to accept'? 

What it says, that some people wil have disgusting beliefs, values, etc, and that the far left with its vision of the perfect  'new man after socialism' needs to acknowledge this. In fact how it would/does deal with that defines it as an ideology.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

> b) its also scary how quickly easy technology can be used to produce this kinda thing.



Why scary? All it's doing is cross tabbing a database, happens all the time, every day. Hell I do it in my job when I'm correcting duplicate medical records and have to look up an address using house number & postcode.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> more advertising hits,



Yeah, cos of course this story wouldn't be of interest to a left-liberal newspaper on any number of levels, would it?


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> In fact how it would/does deal with that defines it as an ideology.



what nonsense.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

there's a good deal of ex-pats on that list. I guess the irony of their situation is somewhat lost on them....


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

i've read somewhere that it is not a full list and that there is another one (presumably not released) for people who qualify for concessions. Not sure if this is true however.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

there are many people on there who (seemingly) qualify for concessions, so that probably aint true


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 19, 2008)

Jesus Christ, the internet left is fucking thick.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 19, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> Not as scary as the amount of people who think that racism is a legitimate response to their social concerns.  For fuck sake people, you think they "don't know any better"?  How fucking patronising can you be, of course people know what the BNP are and what they stand for.  You think teenagers don't understand racism?  I knew racism was wrong when I was ateenager, and when I joined in with white, asian, black and jewish kids to stop c18 youths attacking us by uniting en masse and defending ourselves where necessary.  Each and every person on this list has joined a party who seek to scapegoat ethnic minorities for the problems of society.  That's the truth.  Whether they beleive in using violence or the law (which becomes violence if anyone tries to resist), well, who knows that.  But each person on that list is a cowardly ignorant shitehawk who will quite happily unleash the power of the state against us, our friends, our families, our communities.  You want to defend their rights to work towards dragging our brothers and sisters out of their bed and ship them off to homes they've never known, then you're as bad as them.  Yeah, yeah, issues of consistency etc etc, but when these cunts are involved consistency is not the big issue.  Stop hugging nazis, mollycoddling them as if they're some sort of child that can't make up it's own mind.  they have eyes and brains and that's all you need to know that racial discrimination is a cunt's game.  Fuck 'em.



Good post



littlebabyjesus said:


> I would think the same way.
> 
> I think we need some clarity here. This is not a list of BNP voters (who maybe, just maybe, are no worse than misguided idiots). This is a list of BNP members, who are, to a man or woman, utter cunts.



Yrep - totally agree with you


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

LLETSA said:


> Jesus Christ, the internet left is fucking thick.



well, thanks for that hyper-intelligent comment, most astute.


----------



## chilango (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Why scary? All it's doing is cross tabbing a database, happens all the time, every day. Hell I do it in my job when I'm correcting duplicate medical records and have to look up an address using house number & postcode.



is also scary....

(I don't mean that these things aren't useful...)


----------



## Chairman Meow (Nov 19, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> not as scary as the amount of people who think that racism is a legitimate response to their social concerns.  For fuck sake people, you think they "don't know any better"?  How fucking patronising can you be, of course people know what the bnp are and what they stand for.  You think teenagers don't understand racism?  I knew racism was wrong when i was ateenager, and when i joined in with white, asian, black and jewish kids to stop c18 youths attacking us by uniting en masse and defending ourselves where necessary.  Each and every person on this list has joined a party who seek to scapegoat ethnic minorities for the problems of society.  That's the truth.  Whether they beleive in using violence or the law (which becomes violence if anyone tries to resist), well, who knows that.  But each person on that list is a cowardly ignorant shitehawk who will quite happily unleash the power of the state against us, our friends, our families, our communities.  You want to defend their rights to work towards dragging our brothers and sisters out of their bed and ship them off to homes they've never known, then you're as bad as them.  Yeah, yeah, issues of consistency etc etc, but when these cunts are involved consistency is not the big issue.  Stop hugging nazis, mollycoddling them as if they're some sort of child that can't make up it's own mind.  They have eyes and brains and that's all you need to know that racial discrimination is a cunt's game.  Fuck 'em.



*stands up and applauds*


----------



## HackneyE9 (Nov 19, 2008)

Divisive Cotton said:


> christ, the Guardian are going for it with their coverage - take a look at the frontpage of their website



Making up for lost time - they were very very slow on it yesterday.


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> well, thanks for that hyper-intelligent comment, most astute.





What do you want when the thread is dominated by Trots and anarchos who seem to genuinely believe they have arguments that are in any way relevant to ordinary working people, and posturing would-be street soldiers of the type that think the BPP (or whatever it's calling itself these days) is a bona fide fascist organisation and Redwatch a 'fascist hitlist'?


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

with your humungous brain and superior insight, one might hope for something more than 'you're all shit you are'


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> with your humungous brain and superior insight, one might hope for something more than 'you're all shit you are'





Thick, not shit.


----------



## Roadkill (Nov 19, 2008)

LLETSA said:


> What do you want when the thread is dominated by Trots and anarchos who seem to genuinely believe they have arguments that are in any way relevant to ordinary working people, and posturing would-be street soldiers of the type that think the BPP (or whatever it's calling itself these days) is a bona fide fascist organisation and Redwatch a 'fascist hitlist'?



I'm neither a Trot nor an anarcho and I still think that's bollocks, and it's profoundly depressing to see how many stupid liberals there are here drawing some sort of a moral equivalence between Redwatch and this.

When those who appear on Redwatch are members of a violent, racist, anti-democratic organisation then there might be some merit in the argument, but they aren't and there isn't.  What's been leaked is, as bluestreak points out, not just a list of armchair sympathisers but members and activists.  Cunts, the lot of them.

Maybe there's something in the argument a few people have put forward that this list could have been better used to damage the BNP if it hadn't been leaked.  I don't know, and the fact is that the leak has happened.

One of the news websites last night talked about a 'climate of fear' among BNP members.  Good - I've no sympathy.  A whole lot of people fear them and their rise to prominence, and with good reason.  Some of them think they're going to lose their jobs.  Again, why should I care?  Fuck the lot of them.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

LLETSA said:


> Thick, not shit.


oh well, that makes all the difference


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

Enlighten us then, lletsa.


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 19, 2008)

Roadkill said:


> I'm neither a Trot nor an anarcho and I still think that's bollocks, and it's profoundly depressing to see how many stupid liberals there are here drawing some sort of a moral equivalence between Redwatch and this.
> 
> When those who appear on Redwatch are members of a violent, racist, anti-democratic organisation then there might be some merit in the argument, but they aren't and there isn't.  What's been leaked is, as bluestreak points out, not just a list of armchair sympathisers but members and activists.  Cunts, the lot of them.
> 
> ...






Yes-all of that clearly proves that I'm wrong and that you do indeed have something of relevance to say to counter the influence of the BNP among its working class audience, and that I said there was a moral equivalence between Redwatch (it's all about watching Reds, you know) and the leaked list. 

What's your advice to potential and existing BNP supporters? That they're 'cunts, the lot of them?'


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 19, 2008)

bluestreak said:


> Enlighten us then, lletsa.





Just carry on saying grrr.


----------



## Roadkill (Nov 19, 2008)

LLETSA said:


> Yes-all of that clearly proves that I'm wrong and that you do indeed have something of relevance to say to counter the influence of the BNP among its working class audience, and that I said there was a moral equivalence between Redwatch (it's all about watching Reds, you know) and the leaked list.
> 
> What's your advice to potential and existing BNP supporters? That they're 'cunts, the lot of them?'



Oh dear.

1. It's blindingly obvious that I wasn't referring specifically to you when I made my remarks about Redwatch so your first paragraph is completely misplaced.

2. I'm not offering advice to anyone.    I just observed that anyone who can square joiining a party like the BNP with their conscience is a cunt.  

3.  Oh I can't be bothered.  If you're too thick to read what's there, there;s no point carrying on.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 19, 2008)

Leaking private info like this is wrong. Hoever the parties concerned cause me to respond accordingly: stuff 'em.


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

LLETSA said:


> Just carry on saying grrr.


 

Is this some kind of zen teaching o master?

grrr

grrr

grrr

I can feel it doing me some good already.

How shall we hug nazis, o master?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

exleper said:


> No, I think it is quite invalid.  You're not mentioning that these political views they hold are *probably* racist.



"Probably" isn't enough for me.

If you go to the BNP website you'll find various sections declaring that they are not racist, and giving various reasons why. 

I happen to believe that one can support many or most of the BNP's policies without being racist. Selfish, shortsighted or ignorant perhaps, but you do not need to be racist to be of the opinion that your community/country would be better without people from other places being mixed into it.

You and I might suspect that many people's views are based on racism and ideas of racial superiority and the like, and we might be right but it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush. Likewise you or I might not buy everything the BNP says about themselves in their website or in other publicity, but you can't assume that anyone signing up for membership looks beyond it in that way or has a proper understanding of where seemingly innocuous ideas could end up leading to in more extreme circumstances.



exleper said:


> And you really should not compare to this McCarthyism - you're either being slightly hyperbolic



Yes, a little, but just to make the point.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

Roadkill said:


> When those who appear on Redwatch are members of a violent, racist, anti-democratic organisation then there might be some merit in the argument, but they aren't and there isn't.  What's been leaked is, as bluestreak points out, not just a list of armchair sympathisers but members and activists.  Cunts, the lot of them.



In what way, specifically, do you consider the BNP anti-democratic?


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

Apparently this list actually contains a lot of non-members.

It is scarey to think that some people might be tempted to target an address where someone else might now be living, might see an identical name and get the wrong person (see how many names you can find on facebook for example), might target someone who is unlucky enough to have been listed by their parents against their will - even people who managed to be put on the list incorrectly.

It also contains ex-members. Maybe think they deserve to be punished for years to come by this?

Does this mean the membership lists of the Green Party, the SWP (which might contain names from years ago), trades unions, various NGOs, or even left-leaning websites/forums are now 'fair game' for anyone who disagrees with them politically?

It is kind of scarey to think what it would be like if people routinely Googled names and found out all the political and voluntary links people (supposedly) have, their home addresses etc. This would be abused no end by all sorts of nasty people and every time someone had a grudge against anyone and just wanted to dig up anything they could use to get at them.

Yes maybe it is funny when it happens to people you don't like, but how then do we complain when next year it happens to us, if we were complicit now?


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> If you go to the BNP website you'll find various sections declaring that they are not racist, and giving various reasons why.


oh well, that's alright then



> I happen to believe that one can support many or most of the BNP's policies without being racist. Selfish, shortsighted or ignorant perhaps, but you do not need to be racist to be of the opinion that your community/country would be better without people from other places being mixed into it.


yes, you do need to be racist to believe that, it's pretty much the definition of racism

there may, just possibly be a dozen people n that membership list who aren't racist, but they are just idiots in some other way.

None of which is to call for everyone on the list to be physically assaulted, btw, which is what you seem to be claiming those of us who disagree with you right-wing liberalism believe


----------



## Nixon (Nov 19, 2008)

Would appreciate a PM of list please?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 19, 2008)

It's
on
wikileaks


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> yes, you do need to be racist to believe that, it's pretty much the definition of racism



No. It is not an opinion about one race being superior or inferior to another. It is an opinion about the effects of mixing people belonging to different races and/or cultures together and the benefits or disbenefits of doing so.


----------



## Silver_Fox (Nov 19, 2008)

Are there still any maps out there showing where all the BNP members live?

I know there was one but it's been replaced by a "heat" map.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> there may, just possibly be a dozen people n that membership list who aren't racist, but they are just idiots in some other way.



A dozen? Is this a Belboid official poll?


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

> It is kind of scarey to think what it would be like if people routinely Googled names and found out all the political and voluntary links people (supposedly) have, their home addresses etc. This would be abused no end by all sorts of nasty people and every time someone had a grudge against anyone and just wanted to dig up anything they could use to get at them.



Nah, if there was complete and unfettered access to this kind of information on everybody it would loose currency instantly - complete availability of information would place everyone on an equal footing because everyone could see what everyone else was/is doing. It's difficult to hold something over someone when one's own behaviour is subject to the same level of scrutiny - I mean, do you think that tabloid journalists would so happily and freely reveal details of people's sexual peccadilos or drug use if they themselves were subject to the same revelations?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> Apparently this list actually contains* a lot *of non-members.



According to Nick Griffin on a BBC TV interview it contains just seven more ‘members’ then the original copy.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> but you do not need to be racist to be of the opinion that your community/country would be better without people from other places being mixed into it.



Of course you do.


----------



## e19896 (Nov 19, 2008)

*“An awkward man. Not for re-employment.” …we should all become that awkward man.*



> Originally Posted by bluestreak  View Post
> Not as scary as the amount of people who think that racism is a legitimate response to their social concerns. For fuck sake people, you think they "don't know any better"? How fucking patronising can you be, of course people know what the BNP are and what they stand for. You think teenagers don't understand racism? I knew racism was wrong when I was ateenager, and when I joined in with white, asian, black and jewish kids to stop c18 youths attacking us by uniting en masse and defending ourselves where necessary. Each and every person on this list has joined a party who seek to scapegoat ethnic minorities for the problems of society. That's the truth. Whether they beleive in using violence or the law (which becomes violence if anyone tries to resist), well, who knows that. But each person on that list is a cowardly ignorant shitehawk who will quite happily unleash the power of the state against us, our friends, our families, our communities. You want to defend their rights to work towards dragging our brothers and sisters out of their bed and ship them off to homes they've never known, then you're as bad as them. Yeah, yeah, issues of consistency etc etc, but when these cunts are involved consistency is not the big issue. Stop hugging nazis, mollycoddling them as if they're some sort of child that can't make up it's own mind. they have eyes and brains and that's all you need to know that racial discrimination is a cunt's game. Fuck 'em.



The bleating of the far right about the privacy of their membership list
being printed, holds no fucking sympathy round here, the publishing of the
list will of course give the far right some publicity and all anti
racist/anti fascists should counter this and now more than ever, instead
of Indymedia and others giving them a platform, a right to reply, we
should understand that it goes against what we stand for to deny the right
to free speech. Sometimes the right to free speech should be not given,
along with the use of physical of course is one means by we defeat the far
right.

It was not a cynical attempt of publicity, when the list was published
(here is a link to that list) we shall be reading and looking for known
names such as Ruth Davis of Leeds, and others. Just like they have done on
one of their many far right web pages, we shall be publishing their names
and contact info, we would not be encouraging anyone to break the law
unlike the far right have done, and lets not forget it was their members
who killed S Lawrence, neither should we forget each time they’re elected
- racism in any given area increases.

It is only when we smash capitalism, that the places of urban
explorations, shall become the ruins of dead cities that will lead to the
working class being free, not being a member of the far right, neither
does work bring liberty, we should never forget the words on the gates of
Auschwitz: “Albeit Macht Frei” (Work Makes Free)

    underclassrising.net who are a mixed bunch, between us we represent most of the various ‘flavours’ of anarchism; class war, anarcho-syndicalists, eco-anarchists, marxist- autonomists, stirnerites, tolstoyans, mutual-aiders, punks, etc. we meet for drinks, parties, walks, discussion (OK, fights) and activism on a (sometimes) regular basis.We don’t think that a website is ever going to change the world and we’d encourage anyone living in south yorkshire to get off their arse and get physically involved in anarchist politics.send us an email wordwarfreeatrisedotnet for more,otherwise we will see you on the streets. 

we understand that only the smashing of capitalism, will mean the working class are free, neither should we forget those who died in all wars, and understand the Pirates who took an oil tanker are heroes (more here). Each time a member of our class kills themselves, or even as it says on one of the cards we got from our last exploration…

“An awkward man. Not for re-employment.” …we should all become that awkward man.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> "Probably" isn't enough for me.
> 
> If you go to the BNP website you'll find various sections declaring that they are not racist, and giving various reasons why.
> 
> I happen to believe that one can support many or most of the BNP's policies without being racist. Selfish, shortsighted or ignorant perhaps, but you do not need to be racist to be of the opinion that your community/country would be better without people from other places being mixed into it.


I'd argue that they are racist in that they define people as "native British" (versus 'non-native British') ... they are a bit vague about this, but it seems that anyone who has immigrated to the UK, but also people born here but who have non-British ancestry or 'ethnicity' is deemed not to be 'native British'.

Otherwise how would they arrive at the following claim:





> On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. We will abolish the ‘positive discrimination’ schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of ‘asylum seekers’, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.


They seem to be implying:

1. immigrant = non-native
2. non-white = non-native
3. anyone with any non-british 'ethnicity' = non-native

(although they don't set out clearly how these rules function exactly - for example someone born outside the UK to 'white british parents' who then returns to the UK is an 'immigrant' - how would they then qualify as 'native'? It is possible to think up lots of examples, and in then end it seems to come down to 'race'...)



> We further believe that British industry, commerce, land and other economic and natural assets belong in the final analysis to the British nation and people. To that end we will restore our economy and land to British ownership. We also call for preference in the job market to be given to native Britons.


They don't use the term 'white British' but given the first quote, this seems to be implied.

Therefore I'd say that they are racist.


----------



## Silver_Fox (Nov 19, 2008)

Anyone know where the google maps are?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Nov 19, 2008)

It's pretty feckin' A that overnight we've scored such an amazing list of members - but I'm not gonna be ranting and raving about people losing their jobs.

Seems ironic that in an attempt to stamp out the fash who are supposedly in a dangerous position to merge with the establishment and clamp down on the reds, it's lefties siding with employers and the state to enforce this bogus restriction on employment. Strange bedfellows - they'll come back to haunt us.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 19, 2008)

Roadkill said:


> I'm neither a Trot nor an anarcho and I still think that's bollocks, and it's profoundly depressing to see how many stupid liberals there are here drawing some sort of a moral equivalence between Redwatch and this.


Given the fact that i mentioned redwatch in a very specific context in my reply to teuchter vis a vis McCarthyism, I'm wondering whether you mean me in this remark? If so, maybe i suggest that you go back and read what I wrote before making such utterly idiotic statements.

A _liberal_ ffs


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> No. It is not an opinion about one race being superior or inferior to another. It is an opinion about the effects of mixing people belonging to different races and/or cultures together and the benefits or disbenefits of doing so.



so, the belief that 'races;' shouldn't mix isn't racist?  that 'whites' (does that include the irish btw, how about poles?) and 'blacks' can't get along together, that isn't racist?  total and utter rubbish.

in case you are too dumb too notice, 'cultural 'racism has been the preferred form of racism of the far-right in this country for over thirty years.  but presumably, according to you, the BNP and NF aren't racist at all


----------



## Roadkill (Nov 19, 2008)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Given the fact that i mentioned redwatch in a very specific context in my reply to teuchter vis a vis McCarthyism, I'm wondering whether you mean me in this remark? If so, maybe i suggest that you go back and read what I wrote before making such utterly idiotic statements.
> 
> A _liberal_ ffs



No, I was not referring to you.  Wind your neck in.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter seems to be mistaking misanthropy for racism here...


----------



## chegrimandi (Nov 19, 2008)

Silver_Fox said:


> Anyone know where the google maps are?



yer:

http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/?postcode


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 19, 2008)

Crispy said:


> It's
> on
> wikileaks



wikileaks seems to be down atm...


----------



## Silver_Fox (Nov 19, 2008)

That links good but it's not the google map.

The map you can zone in around the country and see where people live.

Can't find it now, are there any still out there?


----------



## e19896 (Nov 19, 2008)

Silver_Fox said:


> Anyone know where the google maps are?



here

Now i need to rest oh what a packed 48 hours has that been..


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> teuchter seems to be mistaking misanthropy for racism here...



by his logic, apartheid South Africa wasn't a racist society!


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 19, 2008)

It's interesting to see how overwhelmingly male the membership is. It looks like hatred thrives well on testosterone and on egos that want to be the biggest thing in the room


----------



## Silver_Fox (Nov 19, 2008)

> Now i need to rest oh what a packed 48 hours has that been..



Thanks for that but that's the heat map I was talking about. There was one that pin pointed where everyone was on streets.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 19, 2008)

Roadkill said:


> No, I was not referring to you.  Wind your neck in.


Good 

*neck winding in*


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

> I happen to believe that one can support many or most of the BNP's policies without being racist. Selfish, shortsighted or ignorant perhaps, but you do not need to be racist to be of the opinion that your community/country would be better without people from other places being mixed into it.





belboid said:


> yes, you do need to be racist to believe that, it's pretty much the definition of racism


Opposition to immigration is not the definition of racism.

Someone could be against movement of people into an area for other reasons and they could oppose any incomers reguardless of ethnicity/skin-colour etc.

Other people could be pro-immigration (eg for economic reasons) yet still racist - they might only welcome certain types of incomers.

The two issues are connected but they are not identical.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

Brainaddict said:


> It's interesting to see how overwhelmingly male the membership is. It looks like hatred thrives well on testosterone and on egos that want to be the biggest thing in the room



It's actually quite surprising as well, given that women are more likley to vote for a conservative/rw option than men...altho i suspect the bully boy/fake hard men image appeals to the social inadequates that join the BNP...


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 19, 2008)

Brainaddict said:


> It's interesting to see how overwhelmingly male the membership is. It looks like hatred thrives well on testosterone and on egos that want to be the biggest thing in the room



Hah! I noticed that... so are men more racist than women then?? 

Or, as I suspect, are ALL parties membership overwhelmingly male?


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> Opposition to immigration is not the definition of racism.
> 
> Someone could be against movement of people into an area for other reasons and they could oppose any incomers reguardless of ethnicity/skin-colour etc.
> 
> ...



teutonic wasn't (seemingly) talking about immigration tho - and nor was i.  he was talking about 'cultures' and areas, so defence of him is misguided


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> It's actually quite surprising as well, given that women are more likley to vote for a conservative/rw option than men...altho i suspect the bully boy/fake hard men image appeals to the social inadequates that join the BNP...



You keep saying this but I read something (in America) that basically said women were more likely to be left leaning voters...


----------



## Crispy (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> The two issues are connected but they are not identical.



Yup


----------



## free spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

Crispy said:


> It's
> on
> wikileaks


is the wikileaks site working?

can't seem to access it


----------



## Kanda (Nov 19, 2008)

free spirit said:


> is the wikileaks site working?
> 
> can't seem to access it



Too much traffic. From front page: Wikileaks is overloaded by readers


----------



## subversplat (Nov 19, 2008)

_angel_ said:


> You keep saying this but I read something (in America) that basically said women were more likely to be left leaning voters...


True but is that because left politics include more pro-women policies and eschew the "Old Boys" style networks?


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

_angel_ said:


> You keep saying this but I read something (in America) that basically said women were more likely to be left leaning voters...



The tories have more female voters than male in the UK. Long term voter behaviour studies have shown this time and time again - Thatch, for example, won because she secured such a huge percentage of women's votes; again, Blair succeeded in the same way.

I've never studied the psephology of the US so can't comment on US voting patterns; I would guesstimate that ethnicity is a greater guide to voter behaviour in the US than gender tho...


----------



## noodles (Nov 19, 2008)

Joe Reilly said:


> Secondly the breakdown displays the broad social make-up of the membership. Something the BNP have themselves been keen to emphasise, but many doubted.



Does it really? Search for 'Patel' or 'Singh' and see how many hits you get.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 19, 2008)

noodles said:


> Does it really? Search for 'Patel' or 'Singh' and see how many hits you get.


That's not 'social breakup' that's 'national ancestry'


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

it IS a fairly significant of social make up tho isnt it?  albeit not one that will matter a jot to the BNP


----------



## noodles (Nov 19, 2008)

Crispy said:


> That's not 'social breakup' that's 'national ancestry'



Surely ethnicity is one of the many parameters involved in determining 'social makeup'?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2008)

Call it class makeup then.


----------



## noodles (Nov 19, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Call it class makeup then.



I really don't think the list tells us anything about that that we didn't already know. Quite a few with backgrounds in the military/police. Lots of members in 'white working class' areas and quite a few in more middle-class areas. Is anyone _really_ surprised that there's a few teachers and lawyers on the list?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2008)

noodles said:


> I really don't think the list tells us anything about that that we didn't already know. Quite a few with backgrounds in the military/police. Lots of members in 'white working class' areas and quite a few in more middle-class areas. Is anyone _really_ surprised that there's a few teachers and lawyers on the list?



The people who have argued that their appeal is limited to the lumpen should be.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> I'd argue that they are racist in that they define people as "native British" (versus 'non-native British') ... they are a bit vague about this, but it seems that anyone who has immigrated to the UK, but also people born here but who have non-British ancestry or 'ethnicity' is deemed not to be 'native British'.
> 
> Otherwise how would they arrive at the following claim:They seem to be implying:
> 
> ...



Yes, all this is true. They seem to have a bizzare and totally impractical idea that Britain would be better if the population were all of the same "race". I presume they believe the same for other nations where the predominant race is not "white". And the distinction between race, culture, ethnicity and "nativeness" is very confused. Now, for me, "racism" means that you think one race is in some way superior to another. Not that several races can't exist peacefully side by side. So by my definition of racism, it would be possible to hold the views they express without actually being "racist".

In any case the point I was making, the relevant point, is that someone signing up to be a member would not necessarily have to be racist to find sympathy with some of what they propose.

For the record I consider the BNP to be, for want of a better word, bonkers, and under the surface almost certainly based on racist and supremacist notions, and I would much rather that they did not exist. But we are discussing whether people who have signed up to be members deserve to be harassed, physically or otherwise, and I am trying to say that there are all sorts of reasons that someone might sign up to them and this does not necessarily mean they share some of the more dangerous and unpleasant ideals that the parties leadership most probably do have.

And this is one of the reasons that I don't think the list should have been made public.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Nah, if there was complete and unfettered access to this kind of information on everybody it would loose currency instantly


No it wouldn't. It would open the doors to massive amounts of discrimination and invasion of privacy. Journalists are a small feature of people's day-to-day lives. Nasty bosses, prospective employers, nosey next-door neighbours and a hundred-and-one other pissed-off people wih an axe to grind could use all sorts of information to discriminate against people or otherwise attack/harrass/stalk them. And if it was done anonymously you wouldn't be able to 'get back' at people either.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> teuchter seems to be mistaking misanthropy for racism here...



No.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> No it wouldn't. It would open the doors to massive amounts of discrimination and invasion of privacy. Journalists are a small feature of people's day-to-day lives. Nasty bosses, prospective employers, nosey next-door neighbours and a hundred-and-one other pissed-off people wih an axe to grind could use all sorts of information to discriminate against people or otherwise attack/harrass/stalk them. And if it was done anonymously you wouldn't be able to 'get back' at people either.



Why would such information be anonymous? Complete and open disclosure would negate any chance of discrimination because the decision making process would be completely open, the people making the decisions would have similar information available.

There is a part of me that does think that the only information that should be private is the contents of our heads...


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> According to Nick Griffin on a BBC TV interview it contains just seven more ‘members’ then the original copy.


I'd guess he wants to make out that the BNP actually has a larger membership than it really does and I doubt he wants to admit knowingly keeping people on record if they weren't meant to be there, as this is probably against the law.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> by his logic, apartheid South Africa wasn't a racist society!



Yes it was, because it was based on the idea that one race was superior to the other.

The BNP, as far as I am aware, do not propose that non-"Britons" should be made to sit in a different part of the bus.

By BNP logic, white people should not have colonised Africa in the first place, I would presume.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> There is a part of me that does think that the only information that should be private is the contents of our heads...



That sounds a bit creepy to me, would you like to read about your parents fav sexual position in the local rag?

Anyway even if in this country you could somehow reach this utopia you speak of, it would not stop people here being subjected to discrimination when travelling abroad, if soembody could go read their life story online and the click of google.

I think data should only be avliable when it is a.) in the public interest b.) disclosed by the person it is relevant to. 

TomPaine


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Yes, all this is true. They seem to have a bizzare and totally impractical idea that Britain would be better if the population were all of the same "race".* I presume they believe the same for other nations where the predominant race is not "white". *And the distinction between race, culture, ethnicity and "nativeness" is very confused. Now, for me, "racism" means that you think one race is in some way superior to another. Not that several races can exist peacefully side by side. So by my definition of racism, it would be possible to hold the views they express without actually being "racist".




Well, um, no.  I was checking out their website a year or two back, on business that needn't concern you here, and noticed a page for Britons whose homes were in Zambia/SA/Africa in general ( I don't remember) and how they needed support in these lands where they live and *their grandfathers* had made their homes.  

I can't link to it now as their website is somewhat reduced on account of the ''high volume of traffic''...


----------



## exleper (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Yes, all this is true. They seem to have a bizzare and totally impractical idea that Britain would be better if the population were all of the same "race". I presume they believe the same for other nations where the predominant race is not "white". And the distinction between race, culture, ethnicity and "nativeness" is very confused. Now, for me, "racism" means that you think one race is in some way superior to another. Not that several races can exist peacefully side by side. So by my definition of racism, it would be possible to hold the views they express without actually being "racist".
> 
> In any case the point I was making, the relevant point, is that someone signing up to be a member would not necessarily have to be racist to find sympathy with some of what they propose.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, I don't think the list should have been made public.  I think privacy and freedom is important, and it should apply to everyone. 

But the list _is_ public now, and I still don't think that members of this organisation warrant the kind of sympathy you suggest.  They all knew what they were signing up to, the euphemisms they use in their policy material are pretty wafer thin.

A better word than bonkers?  How about bigoted, hateful, fearmongering, divisive, separatist, etc etc.  These are not people who should be defended.

And I don't think they should be harassed, physically or otherwise. I really hope they aren't.  But I won't shed a tear if a racist policeman loses his job.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> That sounds a bit creepy to me, would you like to read about your parents fav sexual position in the local rag?
> 
> Anyway even if in this country you could somehow reach this utopia you speak of, it would not stop people here being subjected to discrimination when travelling abroad, if soembody could go read their life story online and the click of google.
> 
> ...



Just a thought fox for myself based on Iain M Banks The Culture and their attitude toward information was all...besides your two criteria are so vague, especially the first one, as to be almost valueless.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

Sounds like an interesting book? 

I wonder if the BNP Data Controller is going to get hauled over the coals now.

TomPaine


----------



## Nixon (Nov 19, 2008)

*twiddles thumbs*


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 19, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Sounds like an interesting book?
> 
> I wonder if the BNP Data Controller is going to get hauled over the coals now.
> 
> TomPaine



They're very interesting books - a Marxist techno-utopia that isn't 100% utopian, but there are plenty of threads about it, even A Few Notes on The Culture if yr interested...


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> Well, um, no.  I was checking out their website a year or two back, on business that needn't concern you here, and noticed a page for Britons whose homes were in Zambia/SA/Africa in general ( I don't remember) and how they needed support in these lands where they live and *their grandfathers* had made their homes.
> 
> I can't link to it now as their website is somewhat reduced on account of the ''high volume of traffic''...



Well, if that's true then there's no doubt that it is entirely inconsistent. I would be interested to see the link.

It would be exactly the kind of inconsistency I'd try to point out to someone who had been taken in by their propaganda to try and persuade them that they had signed up to an organisation with an irrational and contradictory ideology.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> ...for me, "racism" means that you think one race is in some way superior to another. Not that several races can exist peacefully side by side. So by my definition of racism, it would be possible to hold the views they express without actually being "racist".


But they want to give different legal rights to different 'races': they mention preferences for jobs and a policy of 'motivating' certain people to leave the UK. How can this not be racist?





> ...someone signing up to be a member would not necessarily have to be racist to find sympathy with some of what they propose...


For example: _"We will ensure a major shift to healthier and more sustainable organic farming"_ ?

Could someone excuse themself by saying they liked the BNP's policy on organic agriculture?

You may well have a point about the beliefs of people who are on the list or who end up voting BNP, but I don't think you are correct in saying that the BNP itself - including its manifesto policies - is not racist, when they seem to make clear references to people's race and propose that different laws be applied to people on this basis.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

exleper said:


> I agree with you, I don't think the list should have been made public.  I think privacy and freedom is important, and it should apply to everyone.
> 
> But the list _is_ public now, and I still don't think that members of this organisation warrant the kind of sympathy you suggest.  They* all knew what they were signing up to*, the euphemisms they use in their policy material are pretty wafer thin.
> 
> ...



I agree with all you say except the bit I've put in bold.

I would equate it with people who sign up for loads of credit cards they can't afford by exploitative lenders, or elderly people being double glazing they don't need, or victims of email scams or suchlike. All it takes is the right combination of circumstance, gullibility and good sales technique.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Why would such information be anonymous?


I didn't say that.

You mentioned journalists not wanting to write about people if they knew they would be open to scrutiny themselves.

My point is that while journalists are usually named, there would be a lot of people accessing and using the information who are not 'named' - ie if people could access all sorts of nformation about you, you might never know who had access this information and decided that they didn't want to emply you. You might also get anonymous abuse and harassment from people who decided that they didn't like the political organisation or NGO you were associated with.

If this abuse was anonymous you could not Google the attackers up in return and do something back to them.


----------



## PAD1OH (Nov 19, 2008)

Has this been posted yet?

postcode proximity search

http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> You may well have a point about the beliefs of people who are on the list or who end up voting BNP, but I don't think you are correct in saying that the BNP itself - including its manifesto policies - is not racist, when they seem to make clear references to people's race and propose that different laws be applied to people on this basis.



Well, I think it's debatable whether or not the BNP as expressed through its manifesto policies is necessarily racist. It's not really an accusation I want to try defending them against, because like I said earlier I do reckon that in reality, not very far under the surface, they are. I was only really arguing the point as a way of trying to take the point of view of someone who might sign up to them.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

_"Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent"_

What does _"British or kindred European ethnic descent"_ this mean?

Is it legal?


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> "British or kindred European ethnic descent"



It is a wishy washy way of saying white I believe.

TomPaine


----------



## free spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

If this was just a list of names and addresses of bnp members with no other information, then this bollocks about little old grannies who'd joined up by mistake being targeted would be valid.

Handily though the list actually gives information about who is actually a bnp activist, thus allowing the targeting of active supporters only - that is if anyone was to use this list to target supporters in anyway.

It can also be used to narrow things down even further to work out who the regional / local area co-ordinators are - ie. who's actually responsible for distributing the leaflets that go to the activists to go through people's doors / stickers to go on lamposts etc. meaning if they overstep the mark with their publicity crap (or worse), then they can be targeted directly for an appropriate response. Responses need not be violent btw.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

PAD1OH said:


> Has this been posted yet?
> 
> postcode proximity search
> 
> http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/



Yes. I've been wondering about the legality of that...


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> _"Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent"_
> 
> What does _"British or kindred European ethnic descent"_ this mean?
> 
> Is it legal?


 

Is anyone going to continue to argue that it's not a racially discriminatory party now?


----------



## Fedayn (Nov 19, 2008)

_float_ said:


> _"Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent"_
> 
> What does _"British or kindred European ethnic descent"_ this mean?
> 
> Is it legal?



Well how does that explain the membership of Cllr. Lawrence Rustem who is half Turkish Cypriot?!


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> Turkish Cypriot



Part of Europe innit . Part of Turkey is in Europe as well lol.

TomPaine


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

> "Membership of the British National Party is open to those of British or kindred European ethnic descent"
> 
> What does "British or kindred European ethnic descent" this mean?
> 
> Is it legal?


...In answer to my own question:

Apparently under UK law, for _"clubs, associations and charities set up especially for people from a particular ethnic or national group ... discrimination on the basis of nationality or ethnic or national origin is not unlawful, but discrimination based on colour is prohibited."_

I am guessing that the BNP uses _"British or kindred European ethnic descent"_ to get around UK law - they are not allowed to say "white".


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 19, 2008)

Bloody hell - Guardian have just put up a 'far right map' of Britain 

Seems there are very few members in London. Not what I would have expected.


----------



## Meltingpot (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> oh well, that's alright then
> 
> 
> yes, you do need to be racist to believe that, it's pretty much the definition of racism



Not necessarily, but in practice they almost always go together. It's just possible to believe that there are cultures which when taken on their own are perfectly OK but which cause trouble when mixed together, but it's not a position you hear expressed very often. Almost always, the same people who say than culture A would cause problems if they were mixed with culture B are also saying there's something wrong with culture A and / or the people who compose it.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> discrimination based on colour is prohibited.



Which I presume means that the Black police officers association then either allows people with other skin colour to join?

TomPaine


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

Fedayn said:


> Well how does that explain the membership of Cllr. Lawrence Rustem who is half Turkish Cypriot?!


I am guessing that the BNP in reality operates a 'whites only' policy but can't say so as it is illegal under UK law, hence the mangled phrase _"British or kindred European ethnic descent"_.

I am also guessing that they probably regard the afementioned Cllr. Lawrence Rustem as 'white' in their eyes.

In other words I am guessing that to them:

"British or kindred European ethnic descent" = "white"
and 
"white" = "British or kindred European ethnic descent"


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

naiverty there, FS, of course, whatever you think violence will almost be certainly be meted out, plenty of AFA types have thrown bricks at pubs where families were present.,


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Which I presume means that the Black police officers association then either allows people with other skin colour to join?
> 
> TomPaine


Why don't you go and have a look at ther website?

www.nbpa.co.uk

It says:

_"The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour. The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)"_

(see top right hand corner of page)


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

float> That is what I thought, cheers for the link.

TomPaine


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

You're welcome


----------



## free spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> naiverty there, FS, of course, whatever you think violence will almost be certainly be meted out, plenty of AFA types have thrown bricks at pubs where families were present.,


possibly... it's not he only possible outcome though is it, and the list will at least enable much better targeting of any attacks that do occur to avoid attacking innocent people.

with the info on that list it'd be incredibly easy to verify if the person being targeted still lived at a certain address, ensure children aren't present etc. to ensure that the wrong people aren't targeted by mistake.

without the list it's all based on hearsay and assumptions, so accidentally attacking the wrong people is much more likely to happen.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 19, 2008)

perhaps people mistaken for paedo's deserved a beating, or muslims for terrorists.

eggs and omlettes eh?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> tish and tosh. you're not really trying to argue such rubbish are you? i suspect that both you and the poster on NWN are saying that for the same reason - because you want to maximise the numbers who seem to have left. hence, you both claim that one area where about half have left is 'probably' about average. whereas anyone with half a brain will know that extrapolating national stats from those of a single town is very very silly indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> mm, you dont understand stats do you? this is becoming obvious. there are about 140/150 members listed as sheff - of which a mere 2 are listed as lapsed/not renewing etc. One of them made a big fuss about leaving, and moved to the right. The other one hasn't left a new address, tho he might still be paying subs on DD, so it could only be one person leaving! If we extrapolate from that to the whole of the country, that makes about 13,500 BNP members. Fortunately I wouldn't be so daft as to do that


 
I have used statistical analysis, but I too wouldn't be daft enough to extrapolate such data as to your latter example.

Neither would I extrapolate data, with regards to your former point regarding Lancaster. My aim is not, as you assert to 'maximise the numbers who seem to have left', but rather to examine, and when necessary challenge who is more knowledgeable about the real figures of BNP membership?

Hill believes Griffin lied about the 10,000 membership claim. I tend to agree, however, I would disagree with Hill's suggestion that the BNP membership is about 6,000 now.


----------



## free spirit (Nov 19, 2008)

btw I'm not condoning or condemning the use of targeted violence against BNP activists here, just pointing out that publishing of the list should actually make any targeting much more accurate than it would have been in the past, and therefore reduce the chances of the wrong person being targeted - contrary to what several posters have been arguing / implying. 

that postcode tracker is a different matter though as it makes no differentiation between activists and members or even exmembers.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

Meltingpot said:


> Not necessarily, but in practice they almost always go together. It's just possible to believe that there are cultures which when taken on their own are perfectly OK but which cause trouble when mixed together, but it's not a position you hear expressed very often. Almost always, the same people who say than culture A would cause problems if they were mixed with culture B are also saying there's something wrong with culture A and / or the people who compose it.



_almost_?? can you think of a single counter-example?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2008)

MC5 said:


> I have used statistical analysis, but I too wouldn't be daft enough to extrapolate such data as to your latter example.
> 
> Neither would I extrapolate data, with regards to your former point regarding Lancaster. My aim is not, as you assert to 'maximise the numbers who seem to have left', but rather to examine, and when necessary challenge who is more knowledgeable about the real figures of BNP membership?
> 
> Hill believes Griffin lied about the 10,000 membership claim. I tend to agree, however, I would disagree with Hill's suggestion that the BNP membership is about 6,000 now.



Their offically declared membership as of september was 9297.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 19, 2008)

rhod said:


> He was quite desperately trying to put a good spin on events, claiming that the revelations showed what a diverse and well educated bunch they are.. yeah, I bet they're thrilled to be on so many new Christmas card lists....


 
.....and 'not just skinhead oiks', Griffin added. Piss off a few, who you just don't want to piss off, with that comment.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 19, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Their offically declared membership as of september was 9297.


 
Yes.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

The more i think of this and the timing, entering into a major recession,etc, the more I suspect outside forces as being involved.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 19, 2008)

PAD1OH said:


> Has this been posted yet?
> 
> postcode proximity search
> 
> http://www.localgibson.com/bnp/



Oh dear.....I just outed my dad's next door neighbour with that. 

I am not surprised however TBH.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

> Lets start with some facts....
> 
> I am on the list.
> 
> ...




from CIF


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Yes it was, because it was based on the idea that one race was superior to the other.
> 
> The BNP, as far as I am aware, do not propose that non-"Britons" should be made to sit in a different part of the bus.
> 
> By BNP logic, white people should not have colonised Africa in the first place, I would presume.



oh dear, do you know what apartheid means?  They explicitly did think blacks were technically equal, but only in their own 'countries'. The word just means seperateness


----------



## _float_ (Nov 19, 2008)

free spirit said:


> possibly... it's not he only possible outcome though is it, and the list will at least enable much better targeting of any attacks that do occur to avoid attacking innocent people.
> 
> with the info on that list it'd be incredibly easy to verify if the person being targeted still lived at a certain address, ensure children aren't present etc. to ensure that the wrong people aren't targeted by mistake.
> 
> without the list it's all based on hearsay and assumptions, so accidentally attacking the wrong people is much more likely to happen.









edit:



> btw I'm not condoning or condemning the use of targeted violence against BNP activists here, just pointing out that publishing of the list should actually make any targeting much more accurate than it would have been in the past, and therefore reduce the chances of the wrong person being targeted - contrary to what several posters have been arguing / implying.
> 
> that postcode tracker is a different matter though as it makes no differentiation between activists and members or even exmembers.



This massive list being in the public domain and getting the publicity it has means vastly more people will see it than would ever hace got involved with anti-fascist activism. This means that there is a far greater risk that some pissed-off/pissed-up kids will decide to throw a brick through the window of the closest address to them.

In other words, while existing anti-facists might be able to 'refine' their information, a far greater number of non-anti-facists will be tempted to simply go and attack an address or named person that is close to them, without any more research at all.


----------



## subversplat (Nov 19, 2008)

Barking_Mad said:


> perhaps people mistaken for paedo's deserved a beating, or muslims for terrorists.
> 
> eggs and omlettes eh?


Now we need Megan's Law to cross reference against the BNP membership list


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 19, 2008)

Adding the list to Wikileaks brought the website down:



> Wikileaks is overloaded by readers - looking for the BNP membership list
> 
> Judging by the media coverage in the United Kingdom, and by the large number of fruitless searches of this blog, the most popular WikiLeakS.org "leak" is currently that of about 12,800 names and addresses, and quite a few phone numbers, and email addresses of members of the British National Party.



http://wikileak.org/


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

MC5 said:


> I have used statistical analysis, but I too wouldn't be daft enough to extrapolate such data as to your latter example.


glad to hear it


> Neither would I extrapolate data, with regards to your former point regarding Lancaster. My aim is not, as you assert to 'maximise the numbers who seem to have left', but rather to examine, and when necessary challenge who is more knowledgeable about the real figures of BNP membership?
> 
> Hill believes Griffin lied about the 10,000 membership claim. I tend to agree, however, I would disagree with Hill's suggestion that the BNP membership is about 6,000 now.



but now you're contradicting yourself. Hill used his date to claim a membership of only 6k, butch came along pointed out that Hills methodology (if you can call his one daft assumption a methodology) was nonsense, and that the figure was much higher.  Actually counting up the membersshowed butch was far far closer than Hill. So, you were simply wrong to assume that Hill was more knowledgeable than butch (or anyone with half a brain really) in this case.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> oh dear, do you know what apartheid means?  They explicitly did think blacks were technically equal, but only in their own 'countries'. The word just means seperateness



I'm perfectly aware of what apartheid means, thank you.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

not according to your previous post you're not.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2008)

That list has around 500 names for london, yet the official membership figures for london in september was just over 900. That's nearly 100% growth in a year if true.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> not according to your previous post you're not.



Are you trying to tell me that the regime in apartheid-era South Africa was not a white supremacist one?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 19, 2008)

Joe Reilly said:


> That the whole stunt was engineered by Searchlight/M15 in order to try and stymie the potential flood of recruits from the near defunct UKIP demonstrates the desperate and short term nature of the 'anti-fascist
> strategists'.


 
Yes Joe, it's all a conspiracy.

Some on the right are claiming it was Mossad inspired.

Could it just be that the BNP cocked up?


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Are you trying to tell me that the regime in apartheid-era South Africa was not a white supremacist one?



are you being deliberately disingenuous?

YOU claimed that the policy of 'separateness' was different to racism, I said that it was exactly the same thing in practise, as shown by South Africa. If you accept that SA was clearly a racist state, which you obviously do, then you should accept that the BNP policy you said wasn't necessarily racist, actually is.


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 19, 2008)

questioned answered better and less flippantly.

.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> are you being deliberately disingenuous?
> 
> YOU claimed that the policy of 'separateness' was different to racism, I said that it was exactly the same thing in practise, as shown by South Africa. If you accept that SA was clearly a racist state, which you obviously do, then you should accept that the BNP policy you said wasn't necessarily racist, actually is.



What I was trying to say is that if you believe that problems can arise from too much cultural/racial mixing, it does not necessarily follow that you consider one culture/race to be superior to another.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> The more i think of this and the timing, entering into a major recession,etc, the more I suspect outside forces as being involved.



Who did you have in mind and to what end?


----------



## elbows (Nov 19, 2008)

I hope people dont use this leak to make bad assumptions about the level of support for the BNP. We can see that there arent too many people willing to be  active members, but there are so many more who will vote for them.

There are only about 30 people on the leaked list from my area. In my area in this years council elections, the BNP fielded 12 candidates, and won 2 council seats. 35763 people voted in total, and 5948 of those were votes for the BNP.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 19, 2008)

I'm uneasy about the concatenation of 'cultural' and 'racial' . .


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

8ball said:


> I'm uneasy about the concatenation of 'cultural' and 'racial' . .



Yes, so am I. They are obviously not the same thing and this is why much of what the BNP proposes doesn't make much sense and would be virtually impossible to enforce.

The fact is, though, that many people tempted to vote for them aren't able to see this.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> glad to hear it
> 
> 
> but now you're contradicting yourself. Hill used his date to claim a membership of only 6k, butch came along pointed out that Hills methodology (if you can call his one daft assumption a methodology) was nonsense, and that the figure was much higher. Actually counting up the membersshowed butch was far far closer than Hill. So, you were simply wrong to assume that Hill was more knowledgeable than butch (or anyone with half a brain really) in this case.


 
No I'm not contradicting myself.

This is the one and only post on that subject from the Chief Power Ranger and like many of his posts entirely cryptic.



butchersapron said:


> There are many reasons why "the Lancaster area is any different from any other".


 
Just as an aside, Red Ranger  also assumed wrongly, that this membership list didn't exist and that it was just 'shit-stirring'.

But there you go, we can't all be right.


----------



## Fedayn (Nov 19, 2008)

Sonia Gable was on Channel 4 news saying it was wrong that the list was published as it was. Not that it was leaked mind you.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> What I was trying to say is that if you believe that problems can arise from too much cultural/racial mixing, it does not necessarily follow that you consider one culture/race to be superior to another.



a - racism is not simply the statement that you think one race is superior to another

b - despite that, that notion of 'superiority' would follow in, something like, 99% of examples.


----------



## treelover (Nov 19, 2008)

Griffin to be interviewed now on Ch4 News against a NUT Teachers Union leader who wants all BNP members sacked, result for Griffin?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> The more i think of this and the timing, entering into a major recession,etc, the more I suspect outside forces as being involved.


 
Another loon.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

MC5 said:


> No I'm not contradicting myself.
> 
> This is the one and only post on that subject from the Chief Power Ranger and like many of his posts entirely cryptic.
> 
> ...


what does the second part have to do with anything?

your first part is bollocks as well, you were clearly agreeing with Hill, and are now shown to be totally wrong.  But whatever, you keep on thinking you have been right in everything you ever have said, or will say.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> Griffin to be interviewed now on Ch4 News against a NUT Teachers Union leader who wants all BNP members sacked, result for Griffin?



unfortunately, yes so far 
"equalities act" ffs


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

treelover said:


> Griffin to be interviewed now on Ch4 News against a NUT Teachers Union leader who wants all BNP members sacked, result for Griffin?



why?  Care to actually explain yourself, for a change?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> why?  Care to actually explain yourself, for a change?



more air time the cunt shouldn't have?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> what does the second part have to do with anything?
> 
> your first part is bollocks as well, you were clearly agreeing with Hill, and are now shown to be totally wrong. But whatever, you keep on thinking you have been right in everything you ever have said, or will say.


 
Bollocks to you an' all.

The second part was a piss-take on infallibility, mine included.

I was not in agreement with Hill at all.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

no, of course you weren't.

Fair play on the other bit tho, I couldn't be arsed to read the link


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> a - racism is not simply the statement that you think one race is superior to another
> 
> b - despite that, that notion of 'superiority' would follow in, something like, 99% of examples.



a - We can argue about the definition of racism all evening. Can we call it supremacy instead? Perhaps I should have used that term to start with.

b - I disagree.

The reason I think it's worth making the distinction is that the notion that one race is superior to another is, in my reckoning, fundamentally wrong and I think can be proven to be so.

On the other hand, the notion that mixing up different races (and in many cases but by no means all, this also means mixing up cultures) can cause problems is not fundamentally wrong - it can and does cause problems. It may well be that many people have a distorted view of how and to what extent it causes problems, and that the solutions to these problems offered by the BNP are not good ones, but you can't just write people who hold this view off as bigots, racists or supremacists. Some of them may be, of course, but not all of them. And the attitude where you do just write these people off, is exactly the kind of attitude which will only increase the extent to which they'll be attracted to parties like the BNP.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> What I was trying to say is that if you believe that problems can arise from too much cultural/racial mixing, it does not necessarily follow that you consider one culture/race to be superior to another.



[lobs the example of indigenous peoples' reservations in the Amazon into the discussion to see what will happen]


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> a - We can argue about the definition of racism all evening. Can we call it supremacy instead? Perhaps I should have used that term to start with.
> 
> b - I disagree.
> 
> ...



on a - well if we both agree that the two are different, good.

on b - thats an almost meaningless statement, as _anything_ - mixing cultures, not mixing cultures - causes 'problems'.  As such that renders 'problems' almost meaningless. Life causes 'problems', tho probably not quite as many as death.  Your one-sided version (and I happily accept in advance that you agree with the converse, as I just described it) is just that, one-sided, and as such, a sop to bigotry.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 19, 2008)

cybertect said:


> [lobs the example of indigenous peoples' reservations in the Amazon into the discussion to see what will happen]



Damn you, I was just pulling the pin on that one 
(now it's going to go off in my hand)


----------



## mauvais (Nov 19, 2008)

cybertect said:


> [lobs the example of indigenous peoples' reservations in the Amazon into the discussion to see what will happen]


OR, equally significantly, gangsta rap and morris dancing.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 19, 2008)

> morris dancing



Gotta say I think it is kinda fun. Sitting outside the pub with a pint of ale in summer watching them dance around jingling n' all .

TomPaine


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 19, 2008)

Re:  posts 636 and 638. 

What if we replace the word ''problems'' with the word ''challenges''?


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

do you work in HR?


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> do you work in HR?




No.  I just wonder that if teuchter had used that word instead, whether it would have made you address the point rather than pick up on that one word.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2008)

mauvais said:


> OR, equally significantly, gangsta rap and morris dancing.



Merging those two things produces an amusing mental image.


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

quimcunx said:


> No.  I just wonder that if teuchter had used that word instead, whether it would have made you address the point rather than pick up on that one word.



I didnt just pick up on one word, I addressed his whole post


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

belboid said:


> on b - thats an almost meaningless statement







> as _anything_ - mixing cultures, not mixing cultures - causes 'problems'.



Agreed



> As such that renders 'problems' almost meaningless.



Not agreed



> Life causes 'problems', tho probably not quite as many as death.



Highly debatable. But irrelevant



> Your one-sided version (and I happily accept in advance that you agree with the converse, as I just described it) is just that, one-sided,



One-sided version in one-sided version is one-sided version shocker.



> and as such, a sop to bigotry.



Complete non-sequitur as far as I can see. Argument doesn't make sense.


But I'll try it again with a different argument just to make sure:




			
				fictional teuchter said:
			
		

> "Eating my breakfast in the morning causes me problems. It means I am late for work"






			
				fictional belboid said:
			
		

> thats an almost meaningless statement








			
				fictional belboid said:
			
		

> as _anything_ - eating your breakfast, not eating your breakfast  - causes 'problems'.



Agreed



> As such that renders 'problems' almost meaningless.



Not agreed



> Life causes 'problems', tho probably not quite as many as death.



Highly debatable. But irrelevant



> Your one-sided version (and I happily accept in advance that you agree with the converse, as I just described it) is just that, one-sided,



One-sided version in one-sided version is one-sided version shocker.



> and as such, a sop to bigotry.



The logic concludes that not eating breakfast is a sop to bigotry. Therefore I conclude that the logic is faulty, as I suspected.


----------



## october_lost (Nov 19, 2008)

Someone not thought of trailing facebook and put faces to the email addresses?


----------



## belboid (Nov 19, 2008)

teuchter said:


> eating breakfast causes me problems, it makes me late for work


good try, and a fair example i think.

Unfortunately I don't think it works for you. 'Eating breakfast' doesn't make you late for work, bad time management does that.  But, 'not having bad time management causes me problems' doesn't really work, does it?  



> As such that renders 'problems' almost meaningless.
> Not agreed


as the basis for such decision making it is clearly insufficient here. If the reason for taking a course of actions is to avoid problems, then neither course of action has any merit as they both cause problems. That renders it pretty worthless as a deciding factor.  If you'd rather swap worthless for meaningless, thats fine by me.



> One-sided version in one-sided version is one-sided version shocker.


it's a shit way of making a decision. Now you seem to be defending not thinking.



> Complete non-sequitur as far as I can see.


get better glasses then. As you just said, your initial statement was entirely one-sided. Taking an entirely one-sided view is by definition biased. Prejudiced one might say. And prejudice is a synonym for......


----------



## teuchter (Nov 19, 2008)

So if you're happy with my example, then you agree that my opinion that "Eating my breakfast in the morning causes me problems. It means I am late for work" is a "sop to bigotry", according to your logic.

Is that correct?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm glad I know where my local bigots live TBH, privacy disaster notwithstanding. I'm just glad I don't have kids, cos then I might have to say that about the paedos


----------



## Taxamo Welf (Nov 20, 2008)

_pH_ said:


> ctrl+f......
> 
> 
> oh yes! so he is!
> ...



allegedly one of the first ways this list was confirmed was by someone calling up and pretending to be someone on it and going _ahhh nick is this real?_ And he was like_ aaaah yes it is fuck_

or maybe i just made that up


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2008)

teuchter said:


> So if you're happy with my example, then you agree that my opinion that "Eating my breakfast in the morning causes me problems. It means I am late for work" is a "sop to bigotry", according to your logic.
> 
> Is that correct?



Actually I can't be bothered staying up half the night going through this the slow way.

The fact is that I can feed in the converse to your faulty reasoning process and get the same result:

"Not eating my breakfast in the morning causes me problems. It means I am hungry at work" is a "sop to bigotry"

Which demonstrates that it's a nonsense.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 20, 2008)

does that make sense in your head?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 20, 2008)

Taxamo Welf said:


> a good round up of the days events
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5183868.ece





> There is a lecturer in human rights and data protection and a *“lapsed Mensa member”*.



LMFAO


----------



## belboid (Nov 20, 2008)

teuchter said:


> So if you're happy with my example, then you agree that my opinion that "Eating my breakfast in the morning causes me problems. It means I am late for work" is a "sop to bigotry", according to your logic.
> 
> Is that correct?



I'm happy with your example cos it shows you are totally wrong.  Which you'd realise if you understood a thing about basic logic. But you dont, which is why you have to keep redefining words

You are totally and utterly wrong


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2008)

belboid said:


> I'm happy with your example cos it shows you are totally wrong.  Which you'd realise if you understood a thing about basic logic. But you dont, which is why you have to keep redefining words
> 
> You are totally and utterly wrong



That's one of the most rubbish defences I've seen for a while.





> Unfortunately I don't think it works for you. 'Eating breakfast' doesn't make you late for work, bad time management does that. But, 'not having bad time management causes me problems' doesn't really work, does it?



This relies on an assumption that it is "bad time management". There are any number of reasons why it might not be. Perhaps there is some reason why I can't go to bed earlier than I do, and getting up earlier than I do would mean I don't get enough sleep. Then we are back to saying "doing X causes problems, not doing X causes problems">>>your dodgy reasoning>>>>saying that "eating breakfast causes problems" is a sop to bigotry, but also the statement "not eating breakfast causes problems",>>>your dodgy reasoning>>>saying that "not eating breakfast causes problems" is a sop to bigotry"

But let's say I agree that it is due to bad time management. Then you are quite right that saying that "eating breakfast causes problems" is untrue in that case.

So if we go back to my statement that you claim is meaningless and a "sop to bigotry":



> On the other hand, the notion that mixing up different races (and in many cases but by no means all, this also means mixing up cultures) can cause problems is not fundamentally wrong - it can and does cause problems.



By your reasoning, the converse is also meaningless and "a sop to bigotry". Which is why your argument is unconvincing.

You need to show why it is that mixing up cultures causes no problems at all before you can say that my statement is meaningless. In the same way that you tried to show that "eating breakfast" does not cause problems.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 20, 2008)

Mixing cultures may cause problems, but seperation of cultures may cause others.

Also, seperation of cultures may not be the best way of solving the problems that the original mixing caused.


----------



## isitme (Nov 20, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Mixing cultures may cause problems, but seperation of cultures may cause others.
> 
> Also, seperation of cultures may not be the best way of solving the problems that the original mixing caused.



bloody romans


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Mixing cultures may cause problems, but seperation of cultures may cause others.
> 
> Also, seperation of cultures may not be the best way of solving the problems that the original mixing caused.



Of course. But some people's circumstances might mean that they predominantly register the problems. And registering these problems disproportionally does not necessarily imply bigotry. In my opinion.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 20, 2008)

Stick a mate on the list:
http://bnplist.rdql.com/bnp-wind-up/


----------



## JimPage (Nov 20, 2008)

Brainaddict said:


> Bloody hell - Guardian have just put up a 'far right map' of Britain
> 
> Seems there are very few members in London. Not what I would have expected.



The map is based on Decmeber 2007 data and is therefore out of date

There are 911 current members in London and not the 500 odd the Guardian say. You just need to look at the areas they are fighting by-elections in London in to see that for yourself

And as to London BNP - this from their London website. Be warned " It was noted that some London boroughs had never fielded candidates during local elections. All agreed that the target for the next local elections in 2010 should be to stand a candidate in each ward in each London borough."


----------



## derf (Nov 20, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> Stick a mate on the list:
> http://bnplist.rdql.com/bnp-wind-up/



Now that is a bastard of a thing to do. Fucking funny but a total bastard.


----------



## JimPage (Nov 20, 2008)

treelover said:


> The more i think of this and the timing, entering into a major recession,etc, the more I suspect outside forces as being involved.



Got it in one- namely the state, via their implanted spooks at a high level in the BNP, but subsequently expelled in December 2007, which is the date of this list

The reason? To set off left-right street battles, attacks on home addresses and property on both sides, and to deflect both sides into a tit for tat cycle of violence, which in today modern surveilance society will lead to mass nickings all round

And to deflect people from political activisties to which both sides can benefit- which the BNP are already doing (Winning in Boston last week) and the left could do if they could be arsed to stand for election


----------



## derf (Nov 20, 2008)

Anyone know Ken Livingstone's details?


----------



## JimPage (Nov 20, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> That list has around 500 names for london, yet the official membership figures for london in september was just over 900. That's nearly 100% growth in a year if true.



They got a huge boost in Membership since Barnbrook was elected in May- and have formed a heap more branches off the back of this, mainly in North and West London

Its one of the reasons why it can be proved this membership list is almost a year old


----------



## CyberRose (Nov 20, 2008)

isitme said:


> bloody romans


Yea what have they ever done for us?!


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2008)

JimPage said:


> Got it in one- namely the state, via their implanted spooks at a high level in the BNP, but subsequently expelled in December 2007, which is the date of this list
> 
> The reason? To set off left-right street battles, attacks on home addresses and property on both sides, and to deflect both sides into a tit for tat cycle of violence, which in today modern surveilance society will lead to mass nickings all round
> 
> And to deflect people from political activisties to which both sides can benefit- which the BNP are already doing (Winning in Boston last week) and the left could do if they could be arsed to stand for election



A good conspiracy theory always adds to the fun in these situations, I find.


----------



## CyberRose (Nov 20, 2008)

Also, as I've not been keeping uptodate with this thread, can someone confirm that we've agreed that people who eat breakfast in a morning are racists?


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 20, 2008)

Left Turn Clyde said:


> Stick a mate on the list:
> http://bnplist.rdql.com/bnp-wind-up/



It could be funny but I wouldn't trust them with my mates details


----------



## Y_I_Otter (Nov 20, 2008)

JimPage said:


> Got it in one- namely the state, via their implanted spooks at a high level in the BNP, but subsequently expelled in December 2007, which is the date of this list



Evidence for this is, what?


----------



## derf (Nov 20, 2008)

CyberRose said:


> Also, as I've not been keeping uptodate with this thread, can someone confirm that we've agreed that people who eat breakfast in a morning are racists?



No. You have it all wrong. It's people who eat dinner at lunch time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 20, 2008)

CyberRose said:


> Yea what have they ever done for us?!





not a lot, besides introduce the disease of imperialism. The science and philosophical ideas they introduced were hellenic.


roads tho. Fosse way etc


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 20, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> The tories have more female voters than male in the UK. Long term voter behaviour studies have shown this time and time again - Thatch, for example, won because she secured such a huge percentage of women's votes; again, Blair succeeded in the same way.
> 
> ...



I wonder how old most of them are? Considering the tories attract a lot of older voters and men die before women, on average.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 20, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> roads tho. Fosse way etc



If you like straight roads


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 20, 2008)

two sheds said:


> If you like straight roads




they do the a-b thing nicely. Good for foot traffic. Bendy roads are for the oppressor fascists with their horseless carriages


----------



## Y_I_Otter (Nov 20, 2008)

It's looking more and more like this isn't so much a membership list as it is a database of people the BNP used for begging-letter purposes. I just read the account of an ex-serviceman from Guernsey who paid out six pounds (18 years ago ) during a BNP campaign calling for a pull-out of British Troops from Ireland.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 20, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> they do the a-b thing nicely. Good for foot traffic. Bendy roads are for the oppressor fascists with their horseless carriages



Noooooo with bendy roads you can hide *just* round the corner and pull faces at them then run off. You'd not find a respectable oppressor facist on a bendy road.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Nov 20, 2008)

Y_I_Otter said:


> It's looking more and more like this isn't so much a membership list as it is a database of people the BNP used for begging-letter purposes. I just read the account of an ex-serviceman from Guernsey who paid out six pounds (18 years ago ) during a BNP campaign calling for a pull-out of British Troops from Ireland.



I think it's a genuine (if not updated or entirely 'truthful') membership list.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2008)

Y_I_Otter said:


> It's looking more and more like this isn't so much a membership list as it is a database of people the BNP used for begging-letter purposes. I just read the account of an ex-serviceman from Guernsey who paid out six pounds (18 years ago ) during a BNP campaign calling for a pull-out of British Troops from Ireland.



What a load of bollocks. The NF isn't the BNP for starters.


----------



## Y_I_Otter (Nov 20, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> What a load of bollocks. The NF isn't the BNP for starters.



Clue me in then. In 1990, the date of the man's alleged contribution, were the NF and the BNP chummier than they are today? If not, how is it that a the personal details of man who donated a paltry sum to the NF that long ago appears on a current BNP membership list? 

(I don't discount the possibility that this fellow's lying through his teeth to save his reputation, but from what I've been reading and from the accounts of two individuals I know personally, that list contains the names of a number of people who haven't had anything to do with the BNP in some time. Why, a number of people on it aren't even alive anymore.)


----------



## Meltingpot (Nov 20, 2008)

claphamboy said:


> LMFAO



There are intelligent BNP members, I know that from trying to debate them on Stormfront and elsewhere..


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2008)

Y_I_Otter said:


> Clue me in then. In 1990, the date of the man's alleged contribution, were the NF and the BNP chummier than they are today? If not, how is it that a the personal details of man who donated a paltry sum to the NF that long ago appears on a current BNP membership list?
> 
> (I don't discount the possibility that this fellow's lying through his teeth to save his reputation, but from what I've been reading and from the accounts of two individuals I know personally, that list contains the names of a number of people who haven't had anything to do with the BNP in some time. Why, a number of people on it aren't even alive anymore.)



Chummy? No they were at war.

He's lying. How else would he be down as ex-serviceman, given he was serving as late as 1998.

And who is on it that's dead then?


----------



## Y_I_Otter (Nov 20, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Chummy? No they were at war.
> 
> He's lying. How else would he be down as ex-serviceman, given he was serving as late as 1998.



Good point. Thanks.



> And who is on it that's dead then?



Admittedly, that tidbit is coming from Ken Booth. He doesn't name names.


----------



## belboid (Nov 20, 2008)

teuchter said:


> That's one of the most rubbish defences I've seen for a while.



not half as rubbish as your having to make things up to 'show' you are right.

I'll make it very VERY simple for you, as you wont understand anything else.

Let, 'cultural mixing' be A, and 'problems' be B.  We want to avoid 'problems'.  So:

If A then B.  If Not A, then B.

From that, and that alone, it is obvious that neither A nor Not A are any guide to avoiding B.  Using _either_ on its own, would be biased, and lead to an erroneous answer. Bias is a synonym for prejudice, is a synonym for bigotry. So, as a way of deciding how to avoid B, simply saying A then B, is bigotted.

Thank you, and good night.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2008)

belboid said:


> not half as rubbish as your having to make things up to 'show' you are right.
> 
> I'll make it very VERY simple for you, as you wont understand anything else.
> 
> ...



You haven't quite got it right. It should be: If A then B; If not A then C. Because the problems caused by "A" are not the same as the problems caused by "not A".

Just because my original statement (here it is in case you didn't read it properly the first time round):



> On the other hand, the notion that mixing up different races (and in many cases but by no means all, this also means mixing up cultures) can cause problems is not fundamentally wrong - it can and does cause problems. It may well be that many people have a distorted view of how and to what extent it causes problems, and that the solutions to these problems offered by the BNP are not good ones, but you can't just write people who hold this view off as bigots, racists or supremacists. Some of them may be, of course, but not all of them. And the attitude where you do just write these people off, is exactly the kind of attitude which will only increase the extent to which they'll be attracted to parties like the BNP.



doesn't happen to mention C (on account of that not being the subject of that particular statement), doesn't mean that I am saying C isn't relevant.

And it doesn't mean that someone talking about problem B (which is what a BNP member is likely to focus upon) hasn't considered problem C.

It certainly doesn't falsify the statement "If A then B".

The relative significance of B and C is a subjective matter, as is the value of A (which is not a 0 or 1 value as you imply, it is a sliding scale value).

You might think C is more harmful than B, maybe I would agree. Someone else might not agree. And because it is something that no-one can scientifically prove, C vs B and the optimal value of A will always be a matter of debate. And that is why it is unfair to label someone who has a different opinion about that to you as bigotted.

Thank you and good night.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh, and the notion that anyone anywhere holds an opinion that isn't biased in some way is ludicrous.

Do you believe that none of your opinions on anything aren't in some way coloured by a bias?

If so, you're either superhuman or deluded. If not, then by your own standards you are a bigot.


----------



## belboid (Nov 20, 2008)

aaah, an acceptance of defeat, in all but words


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 20, 2008)

"BNP mandate: 

IMMIGRATION - time to say ENOUGH! 

On current demographic trends, we, the native British people, will be an ethnic minority in our own country within sixty years. 

To ensure that this does not happen, and that the British people retain their homeland and identity, we call for an immediate halt to all further immigration, the immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants, and the introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of ethnic origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for individuals and for the countries in question. 

We will abolish the positive discrimination schemes that have made white Britons second-class citizens. We will also clamp down on the flood of asylum seekers, all of whom are either bogus or can find refuge much nearer their home countries.
- Rob, Ex-pat Brit living in Europe, 20/11/2008 10:31"
Oh the fuckin irony ,some twat posted this on the comments section of a Daily Wail article about the BNP


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 20, 2008)

Meltingpot said:


> There are intelligent BNP members, I know that from trying to debate them on Stormfront and elsewhere..



of course there are, but there are also some extremely stupid ones and there's nothing wrong with laughing at their expense


----------



## goebfwai (Nov 20, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Of course none of this is happening at the moment. But some of the comments on this thread suggest that people would like to see people (and their families) harassed (potentially physically) or sacked from their jobs simply because of their political views. In fact, not even because of their political views, _simply because they are a member of a legitimate political organisation_.
> 
> That a large number of people seem to hold this view I find disappointing and worrying, and I don't think it's invalid to compare it with McCarthyism.



That's a good point.  It saddens me also to observe how some people on the far left readily adopt the behaviours of their perceived enemies in order to oppose them. I've seen such transformations happen to so many people on the left.  Perhaps if they were more spiritual, prayed more and eschewed such tactics of burning hatred they would realise that violence only begets violence.

The rise of the BNP in UK politics in recent years represents a sea change in British politics that concerns many, myself included.

It is concerning that the BNP has grown in the way it has, and so many people out there are still wedded to racist ideas, when ancestrally speaking, all of us are related to one another, black and white alike.  We are all brothers and sisters of the human race.    

The world is going through a period of economic crisis without precedent and increasing - and very justified - industrial discontent, when both the far left AND far right are on the rise.

There are forces out there - particularly amongst the capitalist ruling class who see the foundation stones of their empire and control crumbling - that would be only too happy to see both of these camps fighting amongst themselves instead.

The list has clearly become an overnight national obsession.  I hope I'm wrong, clearly in terms of historic timescales we're not there yet, but I think the publication of this list could end up fomenting an unprecedented period of unrest between the far left and the far right.  Look at the rise of Mosley, the Battle of Cable Street.  These all took place at the height of the last great recession.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 20, 2008)

goebfwai said:


> That's a good point.  It saddens me also to observe how some people on the far left readily adopt the behaviours of their perceived enemies in order to oppose them. I've seen such transformations happen to so many people on the left.  Perhaps if they were more spiritual, prayed more and eschewed such tactics of burning hatred they would realise that violence only begets violence.
> 
> The rise of the BNP in UK politics in recent years represents a sea change in British politics that concerns many, myself included.
> 
> ...


 
= load of old tosh


----------



## audiotech (Nov 20, 2008)

There's just one organisation advocating "physical harassment" of individual BNP members at the mo and they are not of the left. Mind you reading some comments from the various camps of the far-right there maybe more?

The left, incuding the various 'far-left' groups, are opposed to individual acts of "physical harassment" on anyone.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 20, 2008)

MC5 said:


> There's just one organisation advocating "physical harassment" of individual BNP members at the mo and they are not of the left. Mind you reading some comments from the various camps of the far-right there maybe more?
> 
> The left, incuding the various 'far-left' groups, are opposed to individual acts of "physical harassment" on anyone.



By that I assume you're referring to Antifa, an outfit I have no problem with whatsoever, personally. I'm sure they'll be on the case as we speak.


----------



## subversplat (Nov 20, 2008)

goebfwai said:


> That's a good point.  It saddens me also to observe how some people on the far left readily adopt the behaviours of their perceived enemies in order to oppose them. I've seen such transformations happen to so many people on the left.  Perhaps if they were more spiritual, prayed more and eschewed such tactics of burning hatred they would realise that violence only begets violence.



Well you've convinced me, time to pray away the BNP 

Anybody joining me in a hand holding ring? I reckon if we pray _really really_ hard we might get rid of the NF too!


----------



## Y_I_Otter (Nov 21, 2008)

subversplat said:


> Well you've convinced me, time to pray away the BNP
> 
> Anybody joining me in a hand holding ring? I reckon if we pray _really really_ hard we might get rid of the NF too!



I don't suppose it could hurt. 

What I'm waiting impatiently for is for someone to cross-reference the names on that list with a list of people with criminal convictions. When that comes out, they'll be the ones to pray hardest for.


----------



## goebfwai (Nov 21, 2008)

cantsin said:


> = load of old tosh



= a very unconstructive and somewhat monosyllabic remark.  Ever heard of something called debate & discussion?


----------



## danbreen (Nov 21, 2008)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BIa221hsArg


----------



## liampreston (Nov 21, 2008)

The fact that the list shows 11,000+ members from across the country should be a worry (and a wake up call) to us all. I have grown tired to the far-left assuming that slogan shouting and placards will be enough to defeat the BNP. It has never been, it can never be enough. The BNP have done enough to get their first seat on the GLA; in the same elections the split Respect/Left List factions collapsed. Even the celebrity factor of Mr G. Galloway failed to attract votes.

Electoral politics are not the be-all and end-all of life on this island. But the BNP are doing very well at it, with UKIP falling apart, and the far-left without a comparable strong brand or political group. From these 11,000 people will come individuals who think the name-and-shame culture is typical of a nanny-state leftist agenda and do something about it - keep the BNP as strong if not stronger.  

In the grand scheme of things, this could well be just another footnote in history. But I don't like knowing how close I am to members of this party, i want them defeated at the ballot box as much as the rest of you. However the real world does not speak or think like the posts on a far-left internet forum. If you listen to the bus stops, water coolers, bars and newsagents of the real world, I can certainly sense the feeling that the right and far-right message is getting through.

I doubt publishing the membership list of the Communist Party of Great Britain would create 70+ pages of debate.


----------



## Strumpet (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank fuck I don't know anyone on it.


----------



## brasicritique (Nov 21, 2008)

liampreston said:


> The fact that the list shows 11,000+ members from across the country should be a worry (and a wake up call) to us all. I have grown tired to the far-left assuming that slogan shouting and placards will be enough to defeat the BNP. It has never been, it can never be enough. The BNP have done enough to get their first seat on the GLA; in the same elections the split Respect/Left List factions collapsed. Even the celebrity factor of Mr G. Galloway failed to attract votes.
> 
> Electoral politics are not the be-all and end-all of life on this island. But the BNP are doing very well at it, with UKIP falling apart, and the far-left without a comparable strong brand or political group. From these 11,000 people will come individuals who think the name-and-shame culture is typical of a nanny-state leftist agenda and do something about it - keep the BNP as strong if not stronger.
> 
> ...



sadly the bnp will contiue to grow until you only have to look around here at some posters who like to think they are left wing or liberal but in fact are just the usual hypcoritcal conservative middle england fuckwits the far right will continue to grow until issues surroundign poverty and education and ulitmaly democracy are addressed -  and thats before we even try to get to grips with the the results of an elitist political class on the one hand and the growing impact of globalisation on the other its ok for the professional classes by the nature of these occupations they are inoculated against globalisation - those with less skills or the old 'working classess' are not and in the face of incraseing competition from abroad 
it took a disgruntled bnp memeber to put the list on line if i am correct which just exposes how inept the left are imo


----------



## teuchter (Nov 21, 2008)

liampreston said:


> The fact that the list shows 11,000+ members from across the country should be a worry (and a wake up call) to us all.



Although, to keep things in perspective, this represents less than 0.02% of the population, or one in 5,000 people.


----------



## liampreston (Nov 21, 2008)

Well yes, that is a factual point. But were these 0.02% so unimportant, there would not exist such a movement to have them, to borrow a leftist phrase, "bashed" ?


----------



## exleper (Nov 21, 2008)

teuchter said:


> Although, to keep things in perspective, this represents less than 0.02% of the population, or one in 5,000 people.


It's true - they are making significant ground, but not as significant as they'd hope.  Don't buy into Griffin's talk about how "Labour is worried we're a threat" or other nonsense.

And being such a minority that they are, I can't help feeling our effort, attention and energy is not better spent giving the current government more scrutiny, since they are ultimately the ones who make the decisions around here...


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 21, 2008)

*Police probe car fire near BNP member's hovel*

This is a bit of a non-story once you get past the first paragraph but the last para is interesting.



> It was also reported that Billy Mackenzie, the UK's MX1 motocross champion, is also a BNP member. He is described on the list as an "activist" and a "high-profile sportsman".
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ce-probe-car-fire-near-BNP-members-house.html


----------



## belboid (Nov 21, 2008)

liampreston said:


> Well yes, that is a factual point. But were these 0.02% so unimportant, there would not exist such a movement to have them, to borrow a leftist phrase, "bashed" ?



how many members do the lib-dems have?  less than 100k i'd guess.  SNP are a fair size, but PC onloy have a few thou too i beleive.

so, the bnp would seem to have more members than all the other 'minor parties' in england and wales combined


----------



## liampreston (Nov 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> how many members do the lib-dems have?  less than 100k i'd guess.  SNP are a fair size, but PC onloy have a few thou too i beleive.
> 
> so, the bnp would seem to have more members than all the other 'minor parties' in england and wales combined



And that is why I said the membership list should be a wake up call. 

Earlier this month the LibDems voted on our next President, the turnout of which was "A total of 60,357 ballot papers were issued and the turnout was 47.8% (+0.4% on last time). 49 ballots were spoiled"

So our membership is higher than your figure, I do disagree with you calling us a "minor party", if that is what you were implying?

I offer you this quote from this very interesting blog to pick up on an earlier comment


> The BNP may not be “one crisis away from power”, as Nick Griffin likes to boast. But with profound economic instability upon us, they may well be nearer to the hearts and minds of many more people in local areas across the country.


----------



## brasicritique (Nov 21, 2008)

liampreston said:


> And that is why I said the membership list should be a wake up call.



agreed howeevr until the bnp affect the supply chain of hampstead lattes then its not likely to happen as nick nows would say 'let them eat cake'


----------



## teuchter (Nov 21, 2008)

Actually, to be fair, the green party have less than 10,000 members, so perhaps the BNP figure is more significant than I imply above.

I'd imagine there are many more "secret" BNP voters than secret Green voters.


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## belboid (Nov 21, 2008)

liampreston said:


> I do disagree with you calling us a "minor party", if that is what you were implying?



no, i meant the parties excluding your lot, labour and the tories, as i would have thought was quite obvious just from the maths involved (ie the 'minor parties' combined would be a lot bigger than the bnp if you were amongst them)


----------



## liampreston (Nov 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> no, i meant the parties excluding your lot, labour and the tories, as i would have thought was quite obvious just from the maths involved (ie the 'minor parties' combined would be a lot bigger than the bnp if you were amongst them)



Yep, my bad, hands up on that one.


----------



## belboid (Nov 21, 2008)

i would happily forgive you...but you said 'my bad', and so you must die, i'm afraid


----------



## JimPage (Nov 21, 2008)

The fallout continues

Firebomb attack on BNP members car

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/BNP-LIST-Car-torched-in.4717978.jp

A Nazi gardener sacked

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2008/11/413257.html


----------



## dennisr (Nov 21, 2008)

brasicritique said:


> which just exposes how inept the left are imo



everything 'exposes how inept the left are' in your not so humble opinion, brassictroll


----------



## dennisr (Nov 21, 2008)

JimPage said:


> The fallout continues
> 
> Firebomb attack on BNP members car
> 
> ...



"Police are investigating the possibility that the car may have been attacked because it was mistakenly thought to belong to the alleged BNP supporter."

I think we are talking "possible" fallout here. didn't the mail report this one as well?

so what


----------



## niclas (Nov 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> how many members do the lib-dems have?  less than 100k i'd guess.  SNP are a fair size, but PC onloy have a few thou too i beleive.
> 
> so, the bnp would seem to have more members than all the other 'minor parties' in england and wales combined



Of the 12,000 how many are active? How many joined for a year and then fell out? How many are family of members? Current active membership is under 6,000 judging from this.

Plaid has a current paid-up membership of about 7,500


----------



## Darios (Nov 21, 2008)

dennisr said:


> "Police are investigating the possibility that the car may have been attacked because it was mistakenly thought to belong to the alleged BNP supporter."
> 
> I think we are talking "possible" fallout here. didn't the mail report this one as well?
> 
> so what



So, if this is an example of actual fallout, are you still going to say "so what"?


----------



## belboid (Nov 21, 2008)

niclas said:


> Of the 12,000 how many are active? How many joined for a year and then fell out? How many are family of members? Current active membership is under 6,000 judging from this.
> 
> Plaid has a current paid-up membership of about 7,500



over 3000 are listed as activists, might be 4, cant remember offhand. Membership, frmo that list, is over 10000, and whilst some more undoubtedly have left, more have joined too.  The london membership is meant to be 900 now (according to the BNP themselves, so probably a bit less, but not that much, sadly).

Didnt realise PC had quite that many, so its only England where there are more BNP members than there are of other minor parties. That's something I suppose.


----------



## Darios (Nov 21, 2008)

Any of you in Bristol?

The list of Labour party members in Bristol has just been made available.

It's all good though right?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2008)

Where? By Who?


----------



## dennisr (Nov 21, 2008)

Darios said:


> So, if this is an example of actual fallout, are you still going to say "so what"?



its not my problem darios

misguided concern on you part i think


----------



## dennisr (Nov 21, 2008)

Darios said:


> Any of you in Bristol?
> 
> The list of Labour party members in Bristol has just been made available.
> 
> It's all good though right?



darios - are you one of those people who wants things to happen so you can say 'i told you so' and condemn them?

if this is the 'fallout' the bnp members are getting off pretty lightly. the way some of you have spoken of on here we are supposed to see uncontrollable mobs with burning lanterns and pitchforks gathering outside houses

when my side is attacked i'll defend them as we have had too in the past from the then bnp - i'm not shedding tears over these idiots even if i think there is nowt to gain from such personal attacks

and comparing LP members to BNP members - like for like ehh?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2008)

Can someone ask darios where/when/who this bristol labour list has been released by as he's got me on ignore. Ta.


----------



## belboid (Nov 21, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Can someone ask darios where/when/who this bristol labour list has been released by as he's got me on ignore. Ta.



okay


----------



## dennisr (Nov 21, 2008)

Meanwhile back at the Fuhrer's Bunker:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BUNUuqlG1a0&eurl=http://lolgriffin.blogspot.com/


----------



## _float_ (Nov 21, 2008)

liampreston said:


> The fact that the list shows 11,000+ members from across the country should be a worry (and a wake up call) to us all.


Con - c. 290,000 ... one person in every 200 ...
Lab - c.190,000
LibDem - c. 70,000
UKIP - c. 16,000
SNP - c. 14,000
BNP - c. 10,000 ... one person in every 6000 ...
Green - c. 7,000
PC - ?
(Respect ('06) - 5,000)

Personally I don't find the figure of 10,000 to be that big, and certainly not a 'wake up call' as it is no different to what I expected.





> the real world does not speak or think like the posts on a far-left internet forum.


U75 is not 'far-left' internet forum.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2008)

_float_ said:


> Con - c. 290,000 ... one person in every 200 ...
> Lab - c.190,000
> LibDem - c. 70,000
> UKIP - c. 16,000
> ...



It's quite impressive in terms of _growth_ though from a few hundred 6 or 7 years ago and a massive increase in their vote -  picking up over 50 councillors and a London Assembly member on the way though.


----------



## belboid (Nov 21, 2008)

_float_ said:


> Con - c. 290,000 ... one person in every 200 ...
> Lab - c.190,000
> LibDem - c. 70,000
> UKIP - c. 16,000
> ...



where did you get those from?  i think the ukip one is way too high, and i dont think the greens claim 7k now.


----------



## liampreston (Nov 21, 2008)

_float_ said:


> Con - c. 290,000 ... one person in every 200 ...
> Lab - c.190,000
> LibDem - c. 70,000
> UKIP - c. 16,000
> ...



But surely 11,000 members + cllrs + GLA members at least sets your alarm clock?

And u75 is not ENTIRELY far-left but in the years I've been here, I dare wager the left and leftish members somewhat outnumber those from the far-right.


----------



## pingupete (Nov 21, 2008)

GP England and Wales will be around 8,000 by year end, I believe Scottish GP are 1000+ and NI have a fair few members as well. That compares to around 5,400 six months before the 2004 Euro Elections.


----------



## JimPage (Nov 21, 2008)

niclas said:


> Of the 12,000 how many are active? How many joined for a year and then fell out? How many are family of members? Current active membership is under 6,000 judging from this.
> 
> Plaid has a current paid-up membership of about 7,500



current membership figures about 9,700, before griffin took over, in early 1999they had 600 members, up to 2,300 by 2001, going up regualrly since then with big boost when Barnbrook got elected on to the GLA- including a number of veteran fascists not active for years who have become active again

canddiate numbers also relevant- as it shows number of activists who can support an election camapaugn
2000 13
2002 68
2007- over 800

branch organsiation is also relevant. in 2000, they were organised in just a handful or areas, with a small number of active branches. now they have about a hundreds of active units- a numebr growing consistently at the rate of 3 or 4 a month

look at their trajectory, nit just where they are at now. they are not a mass party in membership numbers, but can and are winning mass votes in some areas


----------



## _float_ (Nov 21, 2008)

liampreston said:


> Well yes, that is a factual point. But were these 0.02% so unimportant, there would not exist such a movement to have them, to borrow a leftist phrase, "bashed" ?


There isn't a big movement to 'bash' them. It is just this week's news - just like the ross/brand bullshit was last week's. For most people the BNP do not figure on their radar for most of the time.

For example I live in a town of c.90,000 people which the 2001 census describes as 85% 'white british' and a having a 6% 'asian/british asian' population (who live mainly in one part of town). 

I have never seen a single BNP leaflet and as far as I can tell they have never contested a single election here ever. Having looked at the bnp list there are 10 people listed here.

Council seats here split 50-50 between Conservatives and Lib Dems. In the predominately 'asian' ward all three councillors are 'asian' (two conservatives and one lib dem).

In this town, IMO, the BNP might as well not exist.

While there are parts of the country where "race" (and/or immigration) is being injected into politics, there are others - I'd argue a far greater number - where it is not an issue, or where it has been 'subsumed' by all the mainstream parties equally - ie they all seem to pick 'black/asian/etc' candidates to match certain wards, which therefore neutralises party differences on the basis of "race" in any election contest - you could argue that Respect and the Green Party have achieved this (intentionally or by default) in London elections as well.

Conversely, most of the local councillors here are white-british middle-aged middle-class men and this probably matches the conservative bias of this town, which tends to vote otherwhelamingly Conservative in General Elections.

If the BNP did contest an election in this town it would cause a lot of upset amongst a lot of people because it would represent a symbolic change more than anything. Many people would probably feel duty bound to 'do something about it' even if they posed no threat of winning a seat, possibly due to personal feelings about racism and fascism, but also to visibly demonstrate community solidarity and goodwill and help maintain good community relations.

So I agree that even a small amount of BNP activity can have a large negative effect on society around it, due to its poisonous and provocative nature, and therefore even a small BNP presence will merit a large counter-response, politically speaking. This is not to say however that it is a real political threat per se, rather - that it symbolic of something, and that even this symbolic presence is worth getting rid of / attacking / ridiculing - if at all possible, even if its just so that people (especially the "non-white"/immigrant people under attack) can see that the vast majority of society around them have no tolerance for this at all.


----------



## JimPage (Nov 21, 2008)

http://www.nwleics.gov.uk/home/documents/Statment_of_Persons_Nom.pdf

Anyway, while people will congradulate themsleves all the way until christmas, a by election in an easily winnable ward for BNP- where they misse dout by 62 votes earlier this year

The left, once again, are absent.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 21, 2008)

BNP leading member Mark Collet, with the support of a local BNP council candidate, declare that another local councillor "needs twatting".

Stupid boy.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Nov 21, 2008)

Letter from Bruce Kent in today's Times: 



> Sir, I have received, unsolicited, from the leader of the British National Party, a 12-page document supposedly setting out details of crimes against whites committed by other ethnic groups.
> 
> One intended effect will be to increase racism in general and Islamophobia, in particular. When the document describes gang rape and teenage grooming, it says: “One community, however, is different. Wherever there are large numbers of young Muslim men, groups of them team up to lure girls — often as young as twelve or thirteen — into a nightmare world of sexual abuse, rape, beatings, drug addiction and prostitution . . . the Muslim sex gangs . . . never target girls from their own community.” The pamphlet also claims that there is a refusal by “Muslim leaders to condemn what is going on”.
> 
> ...



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/court_and_social/article5200768.ece

Also:



> BNP supporters were demonstrating outside a police station after its members were arrested for stirring up racial hatred.
> 
> Four men were held this morning after a police investigation over the distribution of leaflets in Burnley, Lancashire, branding Muslims responsible for the heroin trade. Nick Griffin, leader of the far-right party, visited the town, to protest outside Burnley Police station at the "persecution" of its members arrested after "Gestapo-like dawn raids" by police.
> 
> ...



http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1080665_bnp_protest_after_arrests

Cunts. Send them to the gulag!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2008)

Bruce Kent walks straight into the trap of gving them publicity for their Racism Cuts Both Ways campaign, exactly as hey intended. That's why MPs and other notable public figures are being sent the package before it goes out to targted areas, so they can gte free publcity over the spluttering outrage. Well done Brucey!

See this thread for more info


----------



## Darios (Nov 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> ButchersApron said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You - in all seriousness - expect me to share that information? 

That will be a big fat NO. I won't contribute to it's dissemination.


----------



## Darios (Nov 21, 2008)

dennisr said:


> its not my problem darios
> 
> misguided concern on you part i think



That may well be the case dennisr. However, taking an active interest in politics generally involves getting involved in things that are 'not your problem' doesn't it?


----------



## Darios (Nov 21, 2008)

dennisr said:


> darios - are you one of those people who wants things to happen so you can say 'i told you so' and condemn them?
> 
> if this is the 'fallout' the bnp members are getting off pretty lightly. the way some of you have spoken of on here we are supposed to see uncontrollable mobs with burning lanterns and pitchforks gathering outside houses
> 
> ...



I have fundamental objections to i) the dissemination of this data, ii) the use of this information to intimidate, harass or even hurt people and iii) the encouragement of the latter two.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2008)

Darios said:


> You - in all seriousness - expect me to share that information?
> 
> That will be a big fat NO. I won't contribute to it's dissemination.



I don't want to _see_ the list. I want to know who put it out - or more frankly, if it even exists. Seeing as how i live in bristol and used to be in the local labour party and still know lots of members.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> where did you get those from?  i think the ukip one is way too high, and i dont think the greens claim 7k now.


Combination of wiki and party 'statement of accounts' on the electoral commission website: here

Green Party: "As at 31 December 2007 there were 7441 members of the Party (2006: 7019)" (page 4 statement of accounts)

(if you wanted to do a UK-wide like-for-like comparison you could also add in the membership of the Scottish Green Party (963 at 31/12/06) and the NI Green Party (can't find any numbers)) 

UKIP: "Party membership as at 31 December 2007 was 15,878 (2006: approximately 16,000)" (page 4 statement of accounts)


----------



## dennisr (Nov 21, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> I don't want to _see_ the list. I want to know who put it out - or more frankly, if it even exists. Seeing as how i live in bristol and used to be in the local labour party and still know lots of members.



It doesn't exist - darios just thinks he is making some 'big' point about how terrible this all is. personally, i'm not shedding any tears

of all the matters to get worked up about...


----------



## _float_ (Nov 21, 2008)

> And u75 is not ENTIRELY far-left but in the years I've been here, I dare wager the left and leftish members somewhat outnumber those from the far-right.


One small group out-numbering another? The bulk of u75 posters are not 'far-left'. "Leftish" - sure.

Whenever there is a voting poll or similar you get a lot of 'not voting' and 'green party'. In terms of weight of opinions I'd say 'liberal-left'. As for the website itself - it is either neutral, in that it doesn't have an explicit political position of its own, or you could argue that the 'editorial/moderating' position is mildly liberal-left-libertarian.

For u75 to be a far-left website IMO I would have to have an explicit political position as such or have a far greater number (majority even) of far-left posters, rather than 'some'.


----------



## embree (Nov 21, 2008)

Darios said:


> You - in all seriousness - expect me to share that information?
> 
> That will be a big fat NO. I won't contribute to it's dissemination.



He's only asking you to back up a pretty extraordinary claim. How do you know this list has been made available? Who by? Where?


----------



## embree (Nov 21, 2008)

_float_ said:


> One small group out-numbering another? The bulk of u75 posters are not 'far-left'. "Leftish" - sure.
> 
> Whenever there is a voting poll or similar you get a lot of 'not voting' and 'green party'. In terms of weight of opinions I'd say 'liberal-left'. As for the website itself - it is either neutral, in that it doesn't have an explicit political position of its own, or you could argue that the 'editorial/moderating' position is mildly liberal-left-libertarian.
> 
> For u75 to be a far-left website IMO I would have to have an explicit political position as such or have a far greater number (majority even) of far-left posters, rather than 'some'.



liampreston probably just thinks anyone left of the LibDems is 'far left'


----------



## _float_ (Nov 21, 2008)

JimPage said:


> The left, once again, are absent.


If the margin last time was 62 votes then it is good tactics to *not* split the non-BNP vote by standing more candidates.

Lab 699 (30.50)
BNP 637 (27.79)
Con 515 (22.47)
L-D 441 (19.24)

Anyone whose top priority is stopping the BNP getting in should helping Labour to win again, even if they don't really like Labour. Standing a left-of-Labour candidate would be counter-productive.


----------



## Darios (Nov 21, 2008)

embree said:


> He's only asking you to back up a pretty extraordinary claim. How do you know this list has been made available? Who by? Where?



It's been offered to at least one person who I know and trust. That's all the information I'm willing to give you.

Though I guess whoever ends up with it will, "make sure those who could use it got hold of it."


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2008)

I'll take that as confirmation no such things exists.


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 21, 2008)

Also the longer New Labour have been in power, the stronger the BNP have got. Obviously part of this is becaue of the way Griffin has attempted to present the BNP, but I would say it isn't too off the mark to say that New Labours policies have also increased the number of people who feel so fucked off they would vote the BNP as a protest vote, or worst still join them.

TomPaine


----------



## treelover (Nov 21, 2008)

Some of the crap on Indymedia is pathetic, they are even posting up the wrong images of people, this is all going to end in real tragedy


----------



## embree (Nov 21, 2008)

Darios said:


> It's been offered to at least one person who I know and trust. That's all the information I'm willing to give you.
> 
> Though I guess whoever ends up with it will, "make sure those who could use it got hold of it."



OK, so it doesn't exist then


----------



## TomPaine (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah just looked at Indymedia and some of that looks way out of hand. 
Also just looekd at that Red watch site they are mentioning on there. That is fucking awful!

TomPaine


----------



## JimPage (Nov 22, 2008)

_float_ said:


> If the margin last time was 62 votes then it is good tactics to *not* split the non-BNP vote by standing more candidates.
> 
> Lab 699 (30.50)
> BNP 637 (27.79)
> ...



So at which point do the left actually put themselves before the electorate in wards like this to provide the political alternative which, in the long term, is the only thing which will stop them?


----------



## JimPage (Nov 22, 2008)

For those sepcifialluy interested in the correct BNP Membership number sby region, and no0t base don this list

http://www.bnp.org.uk/acmeetings/Membership Report for AC Meeting 14th September.doc

Eastern Region	1,008	
Scotland	               278	
Yorkshire	             1,073
East Midlands	1,136	
South East	1,124		
London	               911	
South West	  357
Overseas	               108
Mid West	               445
Ulster	                29			
North East	  401	
Wales	               414			
North West	1,120
West Midlands	   891


----------



## dennisr (Nov 22, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Yeah just looked at Indymedia and some of that looks way out of hand.
> Also just looekd at that Red watch site they are mentioning on there. That is fucking awful!
> 
> TomPaine



yep


----------



## isitme (Nov 22, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Also the longer New Labour have been in power, the stronger the BNP have got. Obviously part of this is becaue of the way Griffin has attempted to present the BNP, but I would say it isn't too off the mark to say that New Labours policies have also increased the number of people who feel so fucked off they would vote the BNP as a protest vote, or worst still join them.
> 
> TomPaine



people were pretty fucked off before new labour as well

fucked off enough to fall for blair lol


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2008)

Yes, and now a lot of those trad labour voters will never vote labour again, and are totally alienated from the mainstream poltical process. Enter the BNP.


----------



## isitme (Nov 22, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, and now a lot of those trad labour voters will never vote labour again, and are totally alienated from the mainstream poltical process. Enter the BNP.



you think people are jumping from new labour to the BNP? 

that's a big jump, even if you were against old labour and voted new labour


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2008)

isitme said:


> you think people are jumping from new labour to the BNP?
> 
> that's a big jump, even if you were against old labour and voted new labour



Look at the wards where the BNP have won seats, look at who the previous councillors were - 99% labour. Look at the growing list of wards where they've got good returns (82nd places last may, 343 over 10%) and do the same comparison, overwhelmingly labour


----------



## JimPage (Nov 22, 2008)

dennisr said:


> yep



My view. They havent realised the new political reality of the growth of the situation, and still think they are fighting Combat 18 at Brick Lane in 1992

The BNP have over 50 councillors. They are on the GLA. In June 2009 they will get county councillors elected next year in Leicsterwhire, Lancashire, Derbyshire and Warwickshire. They will probably have 2 euro MPs

And more importantly, the Indymedia crowd have failed to understand the lessons from the continent where Euronationalist parties are more advanced 

You cant out-violence a euronatioanslist party into defeat. The only way in to out politic them, by devleoping a working class political alternative

Which is what AFA said back ten years ago, but its clear few were arsed to listen to this


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2008)

JimPage said:


> My view. They havent realised the new political reality of the growth of the situation, and still think they are fighting Combat 18 at Brick Lane in 1992
> 
> The BNP have over 50 councillors. They are on the GLA. In June 2009 they will get county councillors elected next year in Leicsterwhire, Lancashire, Derbyshire and Warwickshire. They will probably have 2 euro MPs
> 
> ...



I agree with all that, except i don't think the people you refer to have even reached the level of fighting C18 at brick lane, they're just watching antifa vids on youtube from russia or wherever.


----------



## isitme (Nov 22, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Look at the wards where the BNP have won seats, look at who the previous councillors were - 99% labour. Look at the growing list of wards where they've got good returns (82nd places last may, 343 over 10%) and do the same comparison, overwhelmingly labour



god, i never realised that

fucks sake. that's really depressing

since people just vote for any old shit they should just come up with ad campaigns instead of bothering with 'democracy' lol


----------



## audiotech (Nov 22, 2008)

JimPage said:


> So at which point do the left actually put themselves before the electorate in wards like this to provide the political alternative which, in the long term, is the only thing which will stop them?


 
Rural Lincolnshire?

The last bit is the equivalent of political hysteria.

In the 2005 election, in the limited numbers of constituencies where the BNP put up candidates, they took just 0.7 of the total vote cast.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 22, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Also just looekd at that Red watch site they are mentioning on there. That is fucking awful!



I don't know, I think I look pretty good in my red watch pics, not nearly as ugly as I am in real life.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 22, 2008)

Had a perusal elsewhere and come up with a couple of interesting quotes from BNP members old and new.




> Mr Exley said the list covered everybody who had ever contacted the BNP head office.


 


> The BNP membership only stands at 4,500 and has been like that since 2001. People leave, people join, but the balance remains the same.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 22, 2008)

deleted


----------



## audiotech (Nov 22, 2008)

JimPage said:


> The only way in to out politic them, by devleoping a working class political alternative


 
But the problem is very few working class people will join such a party and very few actually vote for it.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 22, 2008)

Chris Hill, posting on NWN, has just announced that he's been barred from his local.


----------



## JimPage (Nov 22, 2008)

MC5 said:


> Rural Lincolnshire?
> 
> The last bit is the equivalent of political hysteria.
> 
> In the 2005 election, in the limited numbers of constituencies where the BNP put up candidates, they took just 0.7 of the total vote cast.



think it was 4.3% where they stood if i recall , saving 34 deposits

And Boston is not rural linclolnshire, the ward they won last week was wholly a white working class estate


----------



## JimPage (Nov 22, 2008)

MC5 said:


> But the problem is very few working class people will join such a party and very few actually vote for it.



Well based on what the SSP acheived in Scotland at its peak, they built a party which was almost wholly working class in its membership, and polling votes at parliamentary level that the BNP can only dream of. And not only in cities like Glasgow. I recall almsot falling off a chair when i learnt that they polled 11.4% in that bastion of class struggle, Orkney 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_election,_2003

If the left organsied then, it can be again.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 22, 2008)

As anyone else noticed that a certain individual on this list is a ‘Telesales company owner’.
A member of the BNP and he owns a Telesales company, I think he may just be the most despicable human being on the planet.


----------



## treelover (Nov 22, 2008)

the Guardian has gone SUPABNP coverage mad, including an article by Blears, there is loads in todays paper, overkill?


----------



## gosub (Nov 22, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Look at the wards where the BNP have won seats, look at who the previous councillors were - 99% labour. Look at the growing list of wards where they've got good returns (82nd places last may, 343 over 10%) and do the same comparison, overwhelmingly labour



Labour home have overlayed a UK paliamentary consitiuency map over post code denisty map of that list.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 22, 2008)

JimPage said:


> think it was 4.3% where they stood if i recall , saving 34 deposits
> 
> And Boston is not rural linclolnshire, the ward they won last week was wholly a white working class estate


 
What? The whole ward is a 'white working class estate'?


----------



## Fullyplumped (Nov 22, 2008)

treelover said:


> the Guardian has gone SUPABNP coverage mad, including an article by Blears, there is loads in todays paper, overkill?



Have you told them to stop? You should, if you feel that strongly about it.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 22, 2008)

This from The Guardian Saturday.



> ...according to one report that cross-matched the list with data from the Office for National Statistics, only 5% of BNP members live in areas classified as having high Asian populations, and 2% in areas with big Afro-Caribbean communities. Some 18% of the party's support comes from traditionally working-class white areas. Twenty-two percent of BNP members may live in deprived parts of England and Wales, but 16% live in the wealthiest.


 


> BNP leader Nick Griffin may boast that this list proves his members are not "skinhead oiks", but there are still..., people suspended for "inappropriate tattoos" and at least seven email addresses incorporating the number 88,...


 
But, Professor Roger Eatwell of the University of Bath, who has written extensively on the BNP, sounds a cautionary note after looking at the list for the first time: "many BNP activists don't actually appear to be members" And in any case, "members and activists are not the same as voters".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/22/bnp-far-right-race


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2008)

MC5 said:


> Had a perusal elsewhere and come up with a couple of interesting quotes from BNP members old and new.



It would help if you put up some sort of reference and info when you do this. They're both desperate bollocks btw.


----------



## DJ Squelch (Nov 23, 2008)

I don't think this has been posted yet - more bad news for the BNP - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7744332.stm



> Twelve British National Party (BNP) members have been arrested on suspicion of distributing racist material in Liverpool city centre.
> Merseyside Police said the men were held at about 1250 GMT after leaflets were distributed in the Whitechapel area of the city.
> Roy Goodwin, organiser of the Blackpool and Oldham BNP branches, confirmed 12 party members were arrested.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 23, 2008)

They have a number of these cases outstanding, an important one down in South Wales.


----------



## durruti02 (Nov 23, 2008)

DJ Squelch said:


> I don't think this has been posted yet - more bad news for the BNP - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7744332.stm


 the question is how bad is that for them? there was the whole court case in yorks last year and then they did really well in the elections there ..


----------



## audiotech (Nov 23, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> It would help if you put up some sort of reference and info when you do this. They're both desperate bollocks btw.


 
They are referenced on nationalist sites, which I'm not linking to.

Paedos are secret BNP thugs.

Also, Yorkshire police have placed it on record that the car fire bombed t'other day was linked to a feud between two families, totally unrelated to the nearby BNP member’s residence.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 23, 2008)

You can put the link in broken - in place of just posting as if they're the truth.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 23, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> You can put the link in broken - in place of just posting as if they're the truth.


 
http: //www.nwn-forum.co.uk/index.php


----------



## eoin_k (Nov 23, 2008)

no I think the suggestion is that you edit both your posts and break the link so that people can't go directly to it by clicking but can type it into their browser - it is to stop return traffic. : )


----------



## audiotech (Nov 23, 2008)

eoin_k said:


> no I think the suggestion is that you edit both your posts and break the link so that people can't go directly to it by clicking but can type it into their browser - it is to stop return traffic. : )


 

There was no links to be broken?


----------



## brasicritique (Nov 23, 2008)

_float_ said:


> Anyone whose top priority is stopping the BNP getting in should helping Labour to win again, even if they don't really like Labour. Standing a left-of-Labour candidate would be counter-productive.



what utter rubbish  one of the reasons the bnp are getting the votes they are is becuase nushamebore  no longer represents those vote bnp even the poiosn dwarf  blers admits that

the far right will continue to grow as a consequnce of this postmodern globalised world we are living in where the professsional classes have seen the writing on the wall with reagrds to employment and have pulled up the ladder  

the real issues imo are about class social democracy and fairness and as the three main parties have become kysered and fullypumped and while the old left wing ideaologues have ironically come to some how support neo con policies then the problem will contiue to get worse


----------



## treelover (Nov 23, 2008)

> Twelve British National Party (BNP) members have been arrested on suspicion of distributing racist material in Liverpool city centre.




I wonder if they were all from Merseyside?


----------



## cantsin (Nov 23, 2008)

TomPaine said:


> Yeah just looked at Indymedia and some of that looks way out of hand.
> Also just looekd at that Red watch site they are mentioning on there. That is fucking awful!
> 
> TomPaine




so you spout on endlessly about the BnP / the rights and wrongs of the list being published etc etc , withthis great air of moral authority ,and you've actually never heard of Redwatch before now ???

Timewasting div


----------



## cantsin (Nov 23, 2008)

treelover said:


> Some of the crap on Indymedia is pathetic, they are even posting up the wrong images of people, this is all going to end in real tragedy




jesus, what are you wibbling on about ? what kind of 'real tragedy' do you envisage exactly  ?


----------



## treelover (Nov 23, 2008)

cantsin, why are you so abusive, i think you are a returner,go away...


I mean an innocent person is going to be mistakenly attacked


----------



## cantsin (Nov 23, 2008)

treelover said:


> cantsin, why are you so abusive, i think you are a returner,go away...
> 
> 
> I mean an innocent person is going to be mistakenly attacked



wtf is a "returner " ? 

"real tragedy " ? get some perspective here you melodramatic twerp !

"go away " ? ffs


----------



## the button (Nov 23, 2008)

cantsin said:


> wtf is a "returner " ?



A "returner" is a poster who was banned from here and re-registers under a new name. It can be a convenient way of dismissing what one says, and encouraging others to do the same.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 23, 2008)

cantsin said:
			
		

> "real tragedy " ? get some perspective here you melodramatic twerp


 
treelover has a point, there are allegations out on the internet of people misusing this information.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 24, 2008)

MC5 said:


> treelover has a point, there are allegations out on the internet of people misusing this information.




are there any reports "out on the internet "  of  any "real tragedy's " occurring  because of this 'misuse' yet ? Or is  that dark and terrible cloud still to roll into this apocalyptic landscape ?


----------



## JimPage (Nov 24, 2008)

treelover said:


> I wonder if they were all from Merseyside?


understand so- and they allege a few got a kicking from the police in custody as well

nazis have called a national mobilisttion for liverpool next weekend, and intend to distribute the same leaflet again. i can see hundreds of the buggers getting - and hoepfuly jailed- next week down there


----------



## JimPage (Nov 24, 2008)

MC5 said:


> What? The whole ward is a 'white working class estate'?



Understand so - it wasnt a huge ward


----------



## audiotech (Nov 24, 2008)

cantsin said:


> are there any reports "out on the internet " of any "real tragedy's " occurring because of this 'misuse' yet ? Or is that dark and terrible cloud still to roll into this apocalyptic landscape ?


 
No and yes.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 24, 2008)

MC5 said:


> No and yes.



well, we'll just have to brace ourselves and hope for the best  - poor Tom Paine's  only just coming to terms with the shock of that terrible  Redwatch site he's discovered ( he thinks there may be a shadowy organisation called combat 18 involved somewhere but it sounds far fetched to me )  Treelover's got graver concerns  to worry about,  namely that i could be " A RETURNER " , these are trying times all round ...


----------



## Clint Iguana (Nov 24, 2008)

DJ Squelch said:


> I don't think this has been posted yet - more bad news for the BNP - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7744332.stm



the article states "There was nothing unlawful in the leaflets - all the contents of the leaflets had been carefully vetted, or they would not have gone out." Carefully vetted? Sounds to me like they know there is a very real danger of something racist slipping the net if not vetted, cos they know that they are an organisation riddled with racists.


----------



## Clint Iguana (Nov 24, 2008)

not sure if this has already been posted, i can't be reading 32 pages to find out... even if it has it is good enough to be posted again, got me chuckling!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BUNUuqlG1a0


----------



## JimPage (Nov 25, 2008)

On the short term effect of this on their electoral performance of all of this, watch out for results in 2 by-elections in Bridlington, one in a ward they polled 21% in in 2007. Wards held by Labour, and the rump of the Social Democratic Party


----------



## soam (Nov 25, 2008)

well banrsley Nationalists are selling "I'm on the List" T shirts on their blog!


----------



## audiotech (Nov 25, 2008)

Somebody's cashing in.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 25, 2008)

*Class makeup of those on the BNP list*

Source.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 25, 2008)

> Percentage of a sample of 584 occupations from BNP list. Construction includes both workers and self employed



So it's sample of only those with jobs next to their name the list? Why not do the whole list if it's only 584 names - and that 'sample' itself is what, 5% of the total? It's utterly meaningless.

(mmmm....nazi_pie)


----------



## audiotech (Nov 25, 2008)

A representative sample.


----------



## _float_ (Nov 26, 2008)

"Class makeup of those on the BNP list"

Police, prison officers, armed forces and 'security professionals'
Construction
Other workers
Public sector workers
Artists
HGV drivers and cabbies
Company bosses and shop keepers
Professionals
Managers

What kind of analysis is being used where these categories become "classes"?

Are these all distinct "economic classes" with differing relationships to the means of production, or is this class in the sense of "social class", with working class, middle class and upper class?

Or is this just 'occuptions' or 'industrial sector' (and if so, 'so what?')


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## belboid (Nov 26, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> So it's sample of only those with jobs next to their name the list? Why not do the whole list if it's only 584 names - and that 'sample' itself is what, 5% of the total? It's utterly meaningless.
> 
> (mmmm....nazi_pie)



it is rather annoying it isn't clear which they mean - is it a sample of those 584, or is it that 584 the sample?  Not clear.  And, as float points out, it isn't an analysis of class. Are the HGV drivers employed or self-employed? Why are shopkeepers (presumably small shops) categorised alngisde company bosses, the former are classic petty bourgeois, the latter classic bourgeois, they shouldn't be in the same grouping. 7% are artists?  _Really_? Is that a euphemism for drawing the dole?  How many are unemployed?  That would seem a useful addition.

The lack of clarity is annoying, as if it were properly done it would be a useful bit of info.


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## JimPage (Nov 26, 2008)

This apaprently is a "Skills" list which is just that, members who have a specific skill the BNP can find useful have their skill noted there. 

The SWP have interpreted this as absolute proof that they are middle class

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=16518

And while not SWP bashing, honest, anyone fancy doing a class analysis of the mmebrship of the SWP as a comparison


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## _float_ (Nov 26, 2008)

JimPage said:


> ...anyone fancy doing a class analysis of the mmebrship of the SWP as a comparison


1. How do you do a "class analysis" (what is it)?
2. Where would you get the SWP membership list?


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## belboid (Nov 26, 2008)

an analysis of what 'class' SWP members are, using (I guess the same criteria as they did in the post linked to above)

I'd guess at 30% students, 10% unemployed, 50% public service (inc. teachers & lecturers - 20%), 5% 'professionals', 5% old fashioned blue collar. Hmm, swhould probably be a few shop workers in there too, not many tho.


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## chilango (Nov 26, 2008)

_float_ said:


> 2. Where would you get the SWP membership list?




At one point this was more a less an online membership list.


...been cropped since it listed all 1400 odd and is probably out of date now.


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## Nigel (Nov 26, 2008)

*You Watching Me Watching Me Watching You!!!*

I have'nt read through the whole of this thread, so I apologise in advance if ths has already been brought up.
Just received a Bl ogg junk mail from Th u rr o ck Pa tr iot s. An article that they claim to have sent this to people on U A F list.
Anyone know anything about this?


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## emanymton (Nov 26, 2008)

JimPage said:


> The SWP have interpreted this as absolute proof that they are middle class



And I thought marxists didn't really like the term middle class, shows what I know


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## teuchter (Nov 26, 2008)

Nigel said:


> I have'nt read through the whole of this thread, so I apologise in advance if ths has already been brought up.
> Just received a Bl ogg junk mail from Th u rr o ck Pa tr iot s. An article that they claim to have sent this to people on U A F list.
> Anyone know anything about this?



WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING NEIGHBOURS WOULD YOU MOST DISLIKE TO LIVE NEXT DOOR TO?


BNP Activists
  100 (47%)

Communist Activists
  45 (21%)

Union Activists
  23 (11%)

African Activists
  33 (15%)

Muslim Activists
  74 (35%)

Tory Activists
  27 (12%)

Labour Activists
  35 (16%)

Liberal Activists
  25 (11%)

Neo Nazi Activists
  57 (27%)

Animal Rights Activists
  19 (9%)

Religious Activists  
  32 (15%)



^They have this vote on their home page. I'm assuming the votes aren't really going the way they hoped.

http: //thurrockpatriots.blogspot.com/


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## audiotech (Nov 26, 2008)

Nigel, apparently the list was first posted on the fascist VNN forum. Includes MP's, Euro MP's and some trade union leaders. Looks as though it might be linked to the usual suspects, who have been collecting this info, including a vast collection of images, for some time now?


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2008)

What's an African activist?


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## audiotech (Nov 26, 2008)

I've heard a BNP loon is to appear in the radio 4 programme _The Moral Maze_ tonight at 8pm.

With Melanie Phillips and Keenan Malik too. Should be interesting. 

_Should a person's political views ever disqualify them from doing a job?_


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## Melinda (Nov 26, 2008)

He's on now!

The BNP arent racist!


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## Melinda (Nov 26, 2008)

He's losing it BIG TIME! 

Melanie Philips is kicking his arse. 

They might have been  better served by having a spokesman with a slightly longer fuse.


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## teuchter (Nov 26, 2008)

MC5 said:


> I've heard a BNP loon is to appear in the radio 4 programme _The Moral Maze_ tonight at 8pm.
> 
> With Melanie Phillips and Keenan Malik too. Should be interesting.
> 
> _Should a person's political views ever disqualify them from doing a job?_



I'm going to have to listen to this later on iplayer.


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## Zachor (Nov 26, 2008)

Melinda said:


> He's losing it BIG TIME!
> 
> Melanie Philips is kicking his arse.
> 
> They might have been  better served by having a spokesman with a slightly longer fuse.



the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable.


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## Melinda (Nov 26, 2008)

Alright you  Were/ Are you listening?

She reeled him in and he exploded!


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## newbie (Nov 26, 2008)

tbh I thought he had the better of her. she's loathsome every week and it's about time someone took her on


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## audiotech (Nov 26, 2008)

Barnes style of argument is to not answer the question put and to shout people down. As Portillo remarked to Phillips, 'Barnes didn't let the ball into the back of the net', so on that criteria he didn't lose it, but he also didn't get 'the better of Phillips' either.


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## Melinda (Nov 26, 2008)

MC5 said:


> Barnes style of argument is to not answer the question put and to shout people down. As Portillo remarked to Phillips, 'Barnes didn't let the ball into the back of the net', so on that criteria he didn't lose it, but he also didn't get 'the better of Phillips' either.


I had raised eyebrows when Portillo said that, I disagreed with his analysis.

Barnes lost the argument and damaged his messages by dint of his inability to keep his temper.

He was shouting and ranting, digressing and taking pent-up sideswipes at all comers. 


If the BNP want to sound rational and mainstream, having your spokesman going apeshit and spraying venom everywhere probably wasnt the way to go. 

 Had he been calmer, had a keener, more forensic mind he could have taken Melanie apart. Instead he behaved like a ranting fash. Funny that.


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## Zachor (Nov 26, 2008)

Melinda said:


> Alright you  Were/ Are you listening?
> 
> She reeled him in and he exploded!



I listened to most of it but had to go do laundry.  At first he seemed to be reasonable but soon degenerated into ranting fash.

Probably one of the few times I've said 'Go Mel' to Mad Mel


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## Gingerman (Nov 26, 2008)

Zachor said:


> I listened to most of it but had to go do laundry.  At first he seemed to be reasonable but soon degenerated into ranting fash.
> 
> Probably one of the few times I've said 'Go Mel' to Mad Mel


Go and have a wash ;-)


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## Zachor (Nov 26, 2008)

Gingerman said:


> Go and have a wash ;-)



I did.


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## quimcunx (Nov 26, 2008)

Melinda said:


> Had he been calmer, had a keener, more forensic mind he could have taken Melanie apart. Instead he behaved like a ranting fash. Funny that.



Surely if he had that he'd be a lot less likely to be a fash...?


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## Louis MacNeice (Nov 27, 2008)

Melinda said:


> I had raised eyebrows when Portillo said that, I disagreed with his analysis.
> 
> Barnes lost the argument and damaged his messages by dint of his inability to keep his temper.
> 
> ...



Surely the BNP don't want to do this if it means sounding like one of the 'big three'.

Louis MacNeice


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## newbie (Nov 27, 2008)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Surely the BNP don't want to do this if it means sounding like one of the 'big three'.
> 
> Louis MacNeice



quite so

I think he'll be satisfied that he made his case reasonably clearly, and made it apparent that Phillips was more intent on shutting him up than debating his points.  His style wouldn't appeal to the standard R4 audience, but his message was aimed at (what he sees as) the beleaguered & ignored group he wants to represent, and his tone could easily have struck a chord.  It's people outside the smug, self-satisfied Radio 4 core audience he was talking to.


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## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2008)

Yes, which is why the people saying they're "not a proper political party"(the UAF and Searchlight, Labour etc) and that this needs to be highlighted to counter the threat are mssing the point by some distance.


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## JimPage (Nov 28, 2008)

2 Results from Yesterday from Bridlington 

Bridlington TC, North
Ind 369 
LD 275 
BNP 198 (20.5%)
SDP 126 

Turnout 9.9%


Bridlington TC, Old Town
SDP 183/172 
LD 147 
BNP 143/114 (23.9%)
Ind 125 

Turnout 7%


Yes, Turnouts of 9.9% and 7% for elections


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## audiotech (Nov 28, 2008)

Low turnout and they still lost.

Here's another.

Birchills Leamore ward by-election(Walsall) Thursday 27th november

Declaration of Result of Poll - 27 November 2008

Aftab Kamran The Conservative Party 764 Elected
Booker Paul Green Party 34
Cockayne Christine Liberal Democrats 72
Davies Alan George Democratic Labour Party 69
Hazell Elizabeth UK Independence Party 52
Moore Malcolm William British National Party 90 (5.2%)
Worrall Richard Vernon The Labour Party Candidate 661


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## ddraig (Nov 28, 2008)

one show bbc 1 right now!


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## ddraig (Nov 28, 2008)

cable st 
billy brag
collins

about econ crisis making more facists

now griffin


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## Melinda (Nov 28, 2008)

That segment was preposterous bollocks.


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## treelover (Nov 28, 2008)

They have just discussed the Far Right on the One Show, which is an incredibly popular programme, interview with a 90 year old, Reene Housman? about Cable St and her part in it, the NF in the 70's, a bit with Mathew Collins and abrief segment with Griffin. The general theme seemed to be Britain doesn't 'do fascism' (bit like MC5)


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## treelover (Nov 28, 2008)

> That segment was preposterous bollocks.





In what way?


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## audiotech (Nov 28, 2008)

treelover said:


> They have just discussed the Far Right on the One Show, which is an incredibly popular programme, interview with a 90 year old, Reene Housman? about Cable St and her part in it, the NF in the 70's, a bit with Mathew Collins and abrief segment with Griffin. The general theme seemed to be Britain doesn't 'do fascism' (bit like MC5)


 
Britain did 'do fascism' though, with an effective opposition. The most militant sections of it coming from the working class. Unlike today, it didn't involve an internet connection and some smart-arse comments.


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## JimPage (Dec 5, 2008)

A post on the Amber Valley BNP blog a few minuites ago gives a broad indication that Matt Single and Sadie Graham have been nicked for the leak......


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## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2008)

Not the people Leed barnes publcially pointed the finger at then (if true).


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## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2008)

Two arrested in Notts over BNP membership leak



> Police have arrested two people in Notts over the unauthorised release of the British National Party membership list.
> 
> The Post understands officers raided a house in the county last night.


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## JimPage (Dec 5, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> Not the people Leed barnes publcially pointed the finger at then (if true).



Yup. An already deleted post on the Amber Valley site has named them (Googleblogsearch the terms "Sadie Graham Amber Valley BNP") ,Simon Darby blog reports the local media reports of 2 arrests only, BNP main site silent, rebel blog sites silent


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## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2008)

I suspect SG's outing approacheth and someone is going to jail.(Again, if true)


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## AKA pseudonym (Dec 5, 2008)

scumfront down?
barnes had pegged them during 'leadership' challenge, jaysus a bitter man
almost funny


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## audiotech (Dec 5, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> I suspect SG's outing approacheth and someone is going to jail.(Again, if true)


 
Outing as what?


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## Y_I_Otter (Dec 5, 2008)

The  Nottingham Evening Post confirms that one of those arrested is your "SG".


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## butchersapron (Dec 12, 2008)

First big test post-publication of membership list - wow, looks like they're damaged below the water-line:


*Durham Town Council*
Mark Walker (BNP)239
Theda Mary Bannister (Lab) 240
Henry Nichloson (Lab) polled 253.

Two seats up for grabs so only 2 votes short of their second seat in a few weeks.

And this with Walker, the teacher sacked for looking at racist stuff on line in class time and various other allegations hanging over his head being the candidate. Yep, shaming and naming really does work.


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## laptop (Mar 21, 2009)

BBC said:
			
		

> 'BNP membership' officer sacked
> 
> Pc Steve Bettley's name was on a document listing details of 12,000 BNP people which was published online.
> 
> Merseyside Police conducted an investigation into the allegation and concluding he had knowingly been a member of the BNP



What's with the scare quotes, BBC? They said he was knowingly a member.

And they've introduced the classic defence for the others on the list: "I'm too stupid to have known I was a member".


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## the button (Mar 21, 2009)

> He said he was enrolled in the party by a family member without his knowledge and he planned to appeal against the dismissal.
> 
> "We are disappointed with the finding and sanction of the Misconduct Panel and do not believe that there is any evidence presented to the panel which would indicate that he was knowingly a member of the BNP.



.... and seemingly not alerted to his membership of the BNP when his membership card plopped through the letterbox.


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## Fedayn (Mar 21, 2009)

the button said:


> .... and seemingly not alerted to his membership of the BNP when his membership card plopped through the letterbox.



If one popped through his door.


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## laptop (Mar 21, 2009)

Blimey. The bit about "knowingly" was the end of the story when I read it.

That could get the Beeb in deep doo-doo if it's archived anywhere...


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## DotCommunist (Mar 21, 2009)

It'd be nice if just for once a BNP members photograph wasn't that of a well fed grinning white man.


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## the button (Mar 21, 2009)

Fedayn said:


> If one popped through his door.



You could be onto something there. According to the list, the membership was taken out by one Mrs Yvette Bettley, with 15-year old Lyndsey listed as an "activist", and Stephen & Richard Bettley listed as "family." With a touching note added: "Discretion required re: employment concerns. Police officer."


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## Fedayn (Mar 21, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> It'd be nice if just for once a BNP members photograph wasn't of fed grinning.


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## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2009)

Matt Single fined £200 for releasing BNP membership list - given this should have been contempt proceedings and a jail term people are going to be asking 'what's going on?' Especially when you hear the charges against Saide G were _dropped_.


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## JimPage (Sep 1, 2009)

butchersapron said:


> Matt Single fined £200 for releasing BNP membership list - given this should have been contempt proceedings and a jail term people are going to be asking 'what's going on?' Especially when you hear the charges against Saide G were _dropped_.



Answers on a postcard to Single and Grahams state handlers......


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## audiotech (Sep 1, 2009)

It's must be a conspiracy.


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## JHE (Sep 1, 2009)

I wonder whether the people who were delighted at the publication of the list will chip in to help pay Single's fine and costs.


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## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2009)

MC5 said:


> It's must be a conspiracy.



That's it, that's you full comment is it?


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## trevhagl (Sep 1, 2009)

butchersapron said:


> Matt Single fined £200 for releasing BNP membership list - given this should have been contempt proceedings and a jail term people are going to be asking 'what's going on?' Especially when you hear the charges against Saide G were _dropped_.




funnily enough i saw her ex at the scooter rally on Fri! It wasn't charges HE was dropping ho ho


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## JHE (Sep 1, 2009)

I've just heard Single interviewed on the radio.  He seems very contrite.


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## audiotech (Sep 1, 2009)

butchersapron said:


> That's it, that's you full comment is it?


 
It's all been said, many times, over a very long tedious period.


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## trevhagl (Sep 1, 2009)

one thing i'm a bit puzzled about is if she was/is an agent you would think they would give her a new name. Thats the same name she used when a skinheed!
Pretty slack work.


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## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2009)

The end result hasn't. I'll not attack any resolve you've made to keep your fucking mouth shut though.


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## audiotech (Sep 1, 2009)

The end result is a minor disruption and some poor sods having to re-build their lives, as flirting with fascism fucks them up.


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## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2009)

Empty, never say anything.


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## audiotech (Sep 1, 2009)

Not here anyway.


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## teuchter (Sep 1, 2009)

I find the judge's statement slightly strange -



> "Anything that is posted on the internet has the effect of opening a Pandora's box.
> "What you put on the internet can never be taken from it and while there may be some members in this organisation who do not deserve to be protected by the law, they should be able to expect that officers within the organisation will not abuse the information provided to them.
> "The law exists to save people from such revenge attacks."
> Judge Stobart added: "It came as a surprise to me, as it will to many members of the party, that to do something as foolish and as criminally dangerous as you did will only incur a financial penalty.
> "It comes as no surprise to me that somebody to do with an organisation that prides itself on Britishness is in fact living off the British people on Job Seeker's Allowance and that is why the fine is so low as to be ridiculous."



Firstly his comment: "there may be some members in this organisation who do not deserve to be protected by the law" - what is that supposed to mean, exactly?

Then, "It comes as no surprise to me that somebody to do with an organisation that prides itself on Britishness is in fact living off the British people on Job Seeker's Allowance"

Again - what is he on about?

Finally, why does the sentence he passes come as a surprise to him? He's a judge, isn't he? Shouldn't he know about this kind of stuff?



Anyway, I'm sure the lenient sentencing will be a gift for BNP propaganda purposes - injustice for the native ethnic Brits, etc etc.


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## treelover (Sep 1, 2009)

I was going to post that, its seems that being on benefits is rapidly becoming a 'social crime', where are its defenders?


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## audiotech (Sep 1, 2009)

> Before he was arrested, Single was found by police in Rochford, Essex, "depressed and upset" and wanting to harm himself after publishing the names. He later confessed to the police doctor...



Police doctor? 

Source.


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