# Billboards stating "It's illegal to use a legal name".



## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

I'm trying to get an idea of how widespread these billboard posters are. It's Freemen of the Land fucktwattery but there are no links stating such on the poster. I've spotted one in Cornwall, has anyone else seen them in their area?


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

imagine if you had discovered an arcane system of law that underpinned the modern one- the one enforced by men with guns- and somehow this sacred and ancient code would allow you to shrug off more modern codes aand you'd leave judges baffled (the judiciary HATE this one wierd tip etc). Lets forget its bollocks for a moment and assume its true

do you use your powers for anything significant? no. its only to be used to get out of speeding tickets and use the magistrates court for your platform of jews done 9/11 or whatever associated shite goes with the individual fotlers ideas (theres never just _one_ crackpot theory). Its like a religion invented by alan patridge

no fotler billboards round here no. Interesting that a billboard can be afforded.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> imagine if you had discovered an arcane system of law that underpinned the modern one- the one enforced by men with guns- and somehow this sacred and ancient code would allow you to shrug off more modern codes aand you'd leave judges baffled (the judiciary HATE this one wierd tip etc). Lets forget its bollocks for a moment and assume its true
> 
> do you use your powers for anything significant? no. its only to be used to get out of speeding tickets and use the magistrates court for your platform of jews done 9/11 or whatever associated shite goes with the individual fotlers ideas (theres never just _one_ crackpot theory)
> 
> no fotler billboards round here no. Interesting that a billboard can be afforded.


interesting that the advertising standards authority hasn't shat on them from a great height


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## 8den (Jun 1, 2016)

You'll find freedom of the land shit everywhere stickers posters etc 

Particularly commonplace for people about to be evicted. Preying on the desperate


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

8den said:


> You'll find freedom of the land shit everywhere stickers posters etc
> 
> Particularly commonplace for people about to be evicted. Preying on the desperate


yeh preying on the praying


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2016)

I don't even understand what message that billboard is trying to get across. Not really a very effective choice of marketing, is it?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I don't even understand what message that billboard is trying to get across. Not really a very effective choice of marketing, is it?


that's a sure sign of fotlers


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## BigTom (Jun 1, 2016)

Seen then in Birmingham and Coventry, wasn't sure if I could be bothered to search to find where they are from. There's a substantial fotl group here that I thought it probably came from, but I guess it's not if they're in Cornwall too


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## bi0boy (Jun 1, 2016)

"When pair-ents (two minds) or payer-rents choose to REGISTER their children, they are LITERALLY trading off the life source of the being that is SUCKED into that body in this reality for the whore of Baby-loans LEGAL NAME dead child, in essence, ADOPTING Satan’s child in LLEU of heaven’s child."

More here, lots more: http://legalnamefraud.net/


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## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2016)

What are fotlers?


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

BigTom said:


> Seen then in Birmingham and Coventry, wasn't sure if I could be bothered to search to find where they are from. There's a substantial fotl group here that I thought it probably came from, but I guess it's not if they're in Cornwall too


could be one wealthy individual funding a billboard drive then?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> no fotler billboards round here no. Interesting that a billboard can be afforded.



'Dear Billboard Company, 

I do not recognise the validity of your bill as the person addressed does not exist. Plus you owe me one billion dollars because Magna Carta.

Yours, 

BaaRRRY SadsACk'


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What are fotlers?


oh my. You don't know Freemen on the Land?

prepare to recoil in disgust and then point and laugh


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

swindon: Everyone’s a little bit baffled by Legal Name Fraud billboards


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## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What are fotlers?


Freeman of the landers.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> oh my. You don't know Freemen on the Land?
> 
> prepare to recoil in disgust and then point and laugh


Nope, never heard of it. Is it a political party?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What are fotlers?


where have you been?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> could be one wealthy individual funding a billboard drive then?


Legal Name Fraud


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## killer b (Jun 1, 2016)

It's beyond even freemen stuff, it's just the disjointed rambling of a complete madman. One who has recently inherited a large amount of money.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Nope, never heard of it. Is it a political party?



There are various varieties of it but the basic idea is the appeal to some sort of thousand year old original law, which supercedes other laws and means they can't be touched by law. As Dotcom says, they then use this immense power to refuse to pay any parking fines and to attempt to bore magistrates to death.

ETA: We have someone spamming a novel Croatian variety on here at the moment: Individual Sovereignty - Putting Theory Into Practice


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

killer b said:


> It's beyond even freemen stuff, it's just the disjointed rambling of a complete madman. One who has recently inherited a large amount of money.


and squandered it on shitty advertising


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

then theres all that shit about how the dock in court means you are subject to maritime law or something. They've been around for ages


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## Mumbles274 (Jun 1, 2016)

I know of someone that when in crown court refused to recognise their name. The judge had him arrested for failing to attend court

I fucking laughed so hard


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## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Freeman of the landers.


Oh my:
Freemen on the land - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I can just picture them. The sort who will do anything to weasel out of paying taxes.
The sort who shout at cyclists for not paying road taxes.
The sort who cross their arms and say 'well ACTUALLY, I think you'll find that.....' before spouting a load of ill informed bollocks.
Bet Tobyjug is one.


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## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

killer b said:


> It's beyond even freemen stuff, it's just the disjointed rambling of a complete madman. One who has recently inherited a large amount of money.



Indeed but how much money? How widespread is this campaign and why now? (Not expecting you to have the answers killer b  )


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## BigTom (Jun 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Nope, never heard of it. Is it a political party?


It's utter nonsense is what it is, they reckon the courts have no authority over you if you don't acknowledge then and always write your name in lower case, never capitals, they can't do you for anything.
Historically used by wankers to try to avoid paying council tax and parking fines but had expanded to all kinds of offences.
Began in the usa and over here. Another example of ludicrousness is that you don't tell the judge you understand because this means you stand under then, giving them authority over you. If you say overstand instead they have no authority. 
So much crazy stupidity it's hard to know where to begin


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## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2016)

I've not seen any in London.


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## killer b (Jun 1, 2016)

It's a national campaign, covering a lot of billboards. The timing is almost certainly more to do with the recent death of the nutter who commissioned it's maiden aunt than for any strategic reasons. Read his site - it's not a well mind behind all this.


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## two sheds (Jun 1, 2016)

BigTom said:


> and always write your name in lower case, never capitals, they can't do you for anything.



I thought it was always write your name in capitals

that's where I've been going wrong


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## BigTom (Jun 1, 2016)

two sheds said:


> I thought it was always write your name in capitals
> 
> that's where I've been going wrong


I may have got that the wrong way round, not that it matters


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## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Legal Name Fraud


Fucking hell


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## Miss-Shelf (Jun 1, 2016)

I saw one in Liverpool at the weekend
I thought it was some art prank


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## two sheds (Jun 1, 2016)

BigTom said:


> I may have got that the wrong way round, not that it matters



You what? You fucking what???

"not that it matters"


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## BigTom (Jun 1, 2016)




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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

BigTom said:


> It's utter nonsense is what it is, they reckon the courts have no authority over you if you don't acknowledge then and always write your name in lower case, never capitals, they can't do you for anything.
> Historically used by wankers to try to avoid paying council tax and parking fines but had expanded to all kinds of offences.
> Began in the usa and over here. Another example of ludicrousness is that you don't tell the judge you understand because this means you stand under then, giving them authority over you. If you say overstand instead they have no authority.
> So much crazy stupidity it's hard to know where to begin


at base its just the simplest argument. They have the police and courts, you don't. Incantations will not help you if the words 'take him down' are uttered. You have to wonder how much actual contact these people have had with the realities of the judicial system. And I don't mean ranting in family court when trying to weasel out of his child support obligations


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> More here, lots more: Home - Legal Name Fraud


That's quite, um, imaginative.


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## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

BigTom said:


> It's utter nonsense is what it is, they reckon the courts have no authority over you if you don't acknowledge then and always write your name in lower case, never capitals, they can't do you for anything.
> Historically used by wankers to try to avoid paying council tax and parking fines but had expanded to all kinds of offences.
> Began in the usa and over here. Another example of ludicrousness is that you don't tell the judge you understand because this means you stand under then, giving them authority over you. If you say overstand instead they have no authority.
> So much crazy stupidity it's hard to know where to begin



If only you sheeple would real-eyes.


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 1, 2016)

Also seen in Tower Hamlets, Cambridge Heath Road a month or so ago. Gone now.


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 1, 2016)

Who is funding this?


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## 8den (Jun 1, 2016)

There's loads of videos of them illegally filming court cases and minor traffic stops. It's monumentally stupid the closest they get to victory is a judge throwing their hands up in despair and adjuring proceeding as they turn into farce


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## Athos (Jun 1, 2016)

You would think that the fact that there's not one single recorded case of such arguments having a scintilla of success would make them question their understanding.


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## 8den (Jun 1, 2016)

Or say that you are not John Stubbs. But JOHN of the family STUBBS. And since all the legal documents are addressed to John Stubbs you are not liable....


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## killer b (Jun 1, 2016)

Rutita1 said:


> Who is funding this?


A nutters inheritance.


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## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

Athos said:


> You would think that the fact that there's not one single recorded case of such arguments having a scintilla of success would make them question their understanding.



You'd have thought so but these are people to whom rationality does not come easily.


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## bi0boy (Jun 1, 2016)

They have videos Video - Truth Billboards


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2016)

Sovereign Citizens: A Clear and Present Danger



> For the most part "sovereign citizens" and their beliefs were not a major concern for law enforcement until two years ago. That's when two West Memphis, Ark., officers—Brandon Paudert and Bill Evans—were murdered by a father and son team of sovereigns during a drug interdiction traffic stop. The sovereigns were later killed in a fierce gun battle in a nearby Walmart parking lot.


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## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2016)

Athos said:


> You would think that the fact that there's not one single recorded case of such arguments having a scintilla of success would make them question their understanding.



If I recall from the occasional loon that shows up here they claim quite a few successes.  However a bit of a google normally shows that the case was thrown out for slightly more prosaic reasons such as Police fucking up or a decent brief etc.  Of course none of that matters to the deluded fucks.


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## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2016)

Eh? What? 

And also: eh?


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> The sort who cross their arms and say 'well ACTUALLY, I think you'll find that.....' before spouting a load of ill informed bollocks.


Quite.



Bunch of fucking peanuts.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

oh thats where the law of the sea bit comes in. God I'd forgotten how shit these people are


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## blossie33 (Jun 1, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> I've not seen any in London.


 
I have, a few but I can't remember where now.

I'd no idea what it was about but thought it might be meaning it was illegal to use a name whose copyright was held by someone else


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## lazythursday (Jun 1, 2016)

It's a bit of a blessing that the sites behind this are so obviously deranged - that might stop more people getting sucked into the FOTL merry-go-round. It was very popular amongst hippy-types near me about four years ago, after some organised events took place by charismatic speakers. It's barmy and tends to attract people with mental health problems who then get sucked down a magical paranoid rabbit hole it can be really hard to come out of. 

Surely this must break the advertising standards code in some way?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

lazythursday said:


> It's a bit of a blessing that the sites behind this are so obviously deranged - that might stop more people getting sucked into the FOTL merry-go-round. It was very popular amongst hippy-types near me about four years ago, after some organised events took place by charismatic speakers. It's barmy and tends to attract people with mental health problems who then get sucked down a magical paranoid rabbit hole it can be really hard to come out of.
> 
> Surely this must break the advertising standards code in some way?


yeh, it's bollocks


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## gawkrodger (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Its like a religion invented by alan patridge


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)




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## two sheds (Jun 1, 2016)

Has anyone said what the 'illegal to use a legal name' actually means? Is it a protest because he got banged up for trying to use one, or a statement of fact )), or ...

And does it also mean that it's now legal to use an illegal name?

We should be told.


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## Smangus (Jun 1, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> I've not seen any in London.



Dey here in Catford dude. SE6 is loon central...


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## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2016)

This is not an apple.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 87956
> 
> 
> This is not an apple.


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 87955


They call all identity documents "legal fictions". 

In the video above, one of the piss-tubes, apparently standing as a "lay advisor", produces the "legal fiction" in this case the defendants birth certificate instead of the defendant.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2016)

If you want a laugh, google "Peter Of England" and read about the bank he created


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## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> They call all identity documents "legal fictions".
> 
> In the video above, one of the piss-tubes, apparently standing as a "lay advisor", produces the "legal fiction" in this case the defendants birth certificate instead of the defendant.


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)




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## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


>


Indeed.


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If you want a laugh, google "Peter Of England" and read about the bank he created



Warning over bank that promises to write off debts

Fuuuuuucking hell!


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## Zapp Brannigan (Jun 1, 2016)

They keep telling me to Google legal name fraud, but:





It's illegal to use Google!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Warning over bank that promises to write off debts
> 
> Fuuuuuucking hell!


The delusion of people involved was/is staggering. Simply trying to point out to people that they were being conned and would at best lose their money, or worst be prosecuted for fraud, got me a raft of abuse and banned from his FB group


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## Sue (Jun 1, 2016)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I don't even understand what message that billboard is trying to get across. Not really a very effective choice of marketing, is it?


This. Maybe I'm really thick but I've absolutely no idea what this is on about.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2016)

WeRe Bank


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## killer b (Jun 1, 2016)

Sue said:


> This. Maybe I'm really thick but I've absolutely no idea what this is on about.


that's because the person who's commissioned and paid for them is mad.


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## Sue (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> oh thats where the law of the sea bit comes in. God I'd forgotten how shit these people are



The law of the sea sounds pretty cool though. Does it involve free rum and burial at sea? 

(I didn't watch that video as life is too short...)


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## Glitter (Jun 1, 2016)

There's one near me. Sowerby Bridge in Halifax. I have no idea what it means


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2016)

For those with some time to kill, this is pretty much the gold standard debunking of FOTL shite, by a Canadian judge.

CanLII - 2012 ABQB 571 (CanLII)


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## BigTom (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> oh thats where the law of the sea bit comes in. God I'd forgotten how shit these people are



oh gods, I'd forgotten about the whole admirality law thing... yeah, so the courts don't actually have jurisdiction over us because they are sea courts and don't apply on land. You know it's admirality law because there is some stuff which sounds vaguelly maritime but actually isn't (I can't remember what they say it is), and as long as you say the right combination of words then the judge and that have to accept that you're on land not on sea and they can't prosecute!!!1!!!11! The queen knows all this but won't do anything. We must get together our 14 nobles and challenge her under the Magna Carta law!!
bonkers stuff. Really sad at Occupy Birmingham to see it coming into activism and me having to argue with people not to follow this crap if they got nicked for activism, and trying to explain to the proponents that even if they are right, it doesn't fucking matter when a copper is beating you with a truncheon, putting you in handcuffs and dragging you to the court, no amount of linguistic babbling is going to stop them if they want to jail you. Also getting accused a lot of wanting people to blindly obey authority etc and not be free, having to explain that wasn't true at all, but I wanted people to use recognised defences in court that might actually get them off, rather than this nonsense which would most likely see the judge placing a harsher sentence just for the annoyance of it all.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

Sue said:


> The law of the sea sounds pretty cool though. Does it involve free rum and burial at sea?


yes but also, sodomy and the lash


> (I didn't watch that video as life is too short...)


'between equal rights, force decides' is the law of the sea. In reality.


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> WeRe Bank


Watched the first few minutes of his video on there. He's just making stuff up!


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## Sue (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yes but also, sodomy and the lash
> 
> 'between equal rights, force decides' is the law of the sea


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## QOTH (Jun 1, 2016)

Sue said:


> The law of the sea sounds pretty cool though. Does it involve free rum and burial at sea?
> 
> (I didn't watch that video as life is too short...)



Or gloomy and dismal, like the Iron Islanders on Game of Thrones. 

'I didn't steal that TV your honour, I paid the iron price for it'


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 1, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> WeRe Bank




From there: 



> AN OPEN LETTER TO STAFFORDSHIRE and GLOUCESTERSHIRE POLICE CONSTABULARIES AS WELL AS THE CPS AND SFO - FILE NUMBER WERE/1289pfg/648
> (Upon advice)
> THIRD AND FINAL FORMAL WARNING TO THE PARROT GANG
> The Parrot Gang of St Mary's Street, Painswick Gloucestershire, GL6 6QB are accused of the following additional criminal offences:
> ...


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

eye-un


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## two sheds (Jun 1, 2016)

The Norwegian Blue reference


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## Dogsauce (Jun 1, 2016)

There's one on Tong Rd in Leeds. I just assumed it was some kind of viral crap for a soft drink or something.

If the 'real' law is frequently misapplied, circumnavigated or plain ignored, how much protection will some made-up shit give you instead?


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## gawkrodger (Jun 1, 2016)

this thread has greatly improved my afternoon


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## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

gawkrodger said:


> this thread has greatly improved my afternoon



Then our work here is done


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## gawkrodger (Jun 1, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Then our work here is done



unfortunately, the work I was meant to have done, now, err hasn't been!


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yes but also, sodomy and the lash


Dammit!  #earworm


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Dammit!  #earworm


marylin manson 'cake and sodomy'?


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## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2016)

Saw one on the bristol road (which leads to dachau)  out of brum on monday. He should have a party or something.


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## Idris2002 (Jun 1, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Saw one on the bristol road (which leads to dachau)  out of brum on monday. He should have a party or something.


It'd be a pretty shit party.

"Not for me, thanks, I'm driving".

"Oh don't worry, just tell the police that you're a freeman on the land, and that they don't have the legal right to brethalyse you".


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## Voley (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> oh thats where the law of the sea bit comes in.


That's my favourite bit. I seem to remember that one of them reckoned shouting 'Man Overboard!' was enough to invalidate a Court's authority to prosecute him. 

ETA: There's an "Abandon ship!" at 0:05 here:


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## whoha (Jun 1, 2016)

I've  seen them in Somerset. Back in April. 
My daughter says it's something to do with kate of gaia.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> interesting that the advertising standards authority hasn't shat on them from a great height



It's hard to be inaccurate or misleading when your sign is so bereft of actual content.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> then theres all that shit about how the dock in court means you are subject to maritime law or something. They've been around for ages



And when you get arrested and the dibble read you your rights and ask if you understand, if you say yes then that means you voluntarily _stand under _their corporate maritime law. If you don't say 'I understand' then they have to let you go, as demonstrated by nobody ever.


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## Corax (Jun 1, 2016)

It's by people who know the LAW applies to all consciousness, is inescapable and that LEGAL is corrupt to the bone and is mere mimicry of Universal Law.

Universal Law (Reality) • Legal (Legality) 2 different things.

This is not sovereign citizen - sovereign means free, citizen means slave.

It's not freeman. It's called reclaiming your spiritual energy that has been stolen by criminal murderers.



Spoiler



From a reddit thread on these billboard posters


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 1, 2016)

Do we still have any resident footlers in here or are they all in prison for non payment of council tax?


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Do we still have any residet footlers in here or are they all in prison for non payment of council tax?


Were there ever any here?


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 1, 2016)

They pop up from time to time. The air around here doesn't seem to suit them though.


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## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Were there ever any here?



Not even Jazz iirc.


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## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Not even Jazz iirc.


I'd be surprised if that batshit berk wasn't involved with this bollocks, tbh.


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## MAD-T-REX (Jun 1, 2016)

Some unnecessary force but plenty of laughs:


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## Buckaroo (Jun 1, 2016)

That's not part of my policy. I'll arrest you!


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## mr steev (Jun 1, 2016)

I saw one in Wolverhampton yesterday and didn't have a clue what it was about


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## gawkrodger (Jun 1, 2016)

mr steev said:


> I saw one in Wolverhampton yesterday and didn't have a clue what it was about



where abouts?


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## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> That's not part of my policy. I'll arrest you!




The driver didn't stray into FOTL territory though did he? He was just asserting his rights. Fair play to him n'all. Bacon breath


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## Buckaroo (Jun 1, 2016)

Libertad said:


> The driver didn't stray into FOTL territory though did he? He was just asserting his rights. Fair play to him n'all. Bacon breath



Yeah true.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

I love that video it was doing the rounds last year. Mans bang on it. Wouldn't want to have that mouth without a camera present or several burly friends though. They'd sec 5 pub sec you and beat you up just for the dominance


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## mr steev (Jun 1, 2016)

gawkrodger said:


> where abouts?



Newhampton Road in the reans, opposite the ackee tree book shop


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## gawkrodger (Jun 1, 2016)

I'll take a slight detour tomorrow and have a giggle


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## Dogsauce (Jun 1, 2016)

I'm surprised there isn't a viz character based on these fucktrumpets, uploading videos to YouTube of themselves shouting half-baked legal nonsense at some poor fuck just sent round to read the leccy meter.


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## Bakunin (Jun 1, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> "When pair-ents (two minds) or payer-rents choose to REGISTER their children, they are LITERALLY trading off the life source of the being that is SUCKED into that body in this reality for the whore of Baby-loans LEGAL NAME dead child, in essence, ADOPTING Satan’s child in LLEU of heaven’s child."
> 
> More here, lots more: Home - Legal Name Fraud



Whatever they're smoking, can I have some?


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## fishfinger (Jun 1, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Were there ever any here?


This one posted here a while ago:

'I ran a cannabis farm from my council flat' - BBC News

It was Bopalot

how manys acts and statutes are there active altogether?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2016)

freeman

Some light bedtime reading for you all


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## Red Sky (Jun 1, 2016)

Tbh - I saw one and assumed it was a cunning advertising ploy for Marlboro (Cigarettes now in plain packaging and all that).


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 1, 2016)

The Legal Gibberish of “Freeman on the Land”

This is good, the comments section is comedy gold, particularly the bits where certain people notice the articles author has the surname "Rothschild"


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 1, 2016)

I saw a billboard somewhere around South Wimbledon a few weeks ago and googled it.



hardly seems to sum it up...


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## fishfinger (Jun 1, 2016)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I saw a billboard somewhere around South Wimbledon a few weeks ago and googled it.
> 
> View attachment 87967
> 
> hardly seems to sum it up...


I can see my house from there!


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## Mumbles274 (Jun 1, 2016)

I've just remembered, the guy that was in court that got arrested for not turning up, having denied his name, was there to defend a driving offence with the 'travelling' not 'driving' nonsense. On what level do they try to make sense of this bollocks? I really don't get it, but it does make me laugh


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2016)

Didn't alot of them have a thing about the EU..and they kept on writing to the Queen..or summat?


----------



## Corax (Jun 1, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Didn't alot of them have a thing about the EU..and they kept on writing to the Queen..or summat?


In green ink, no doubt.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 1, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The Legal Gibberish of “Freeman on the Land”
> 
> This is good, the comments section is comedy gold, particularly the bits where certain people notice the articles author has the surname "Rothschild"



The guy posting most of the nonsense in the comments manages to include a 'WAKE UP!' and an 'OPEN YOUR EYES!' all in capitals. Classic loonspuddery.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2016)

do fotlers even realise that if their bollocks was somehow true the court would just railroad over it anway. Expecto Legalis Billius!


----------



## two sheds (Jun 1, 2016)

I liked the bit in the comment: "and in court their only option is throwing a Freeman in jail for contempt, because thats all they got."

yep that'll do it


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2016)




----------



## Corax (Jun 1, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Expecto Legalis Billius!


That's for dementors you idiot, not magistrates.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 1, 2016)

Corax said:


> That's for dementors you idiot, not magistrates.



Same difference.


----------



## lefteri (Jun 1, 2016)

Ah, I saw one in elephant and castle on the corner of elephant road the other day - assumed it was some sort of prank, which by the sound of it is, sort of


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 2, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> The guy posting most of the nonsense in the comments manages to include a 'WAKE UP!


 
i think it needs a snooze button...


----------



## free spirit (Jun 2, 2016)

two sheds said:


> I liked the bit in the comment: "and in court their only option is throwing a Freeman in jail for contempt, because thats all they got."
> 
> yep that'll do it


their body may be in prison, but in their heads they know that they're legally free men still...


----------



## LDC (Jun 2, 2016)

I met one of these fotlers years ago when he started going out with a housemate. He also happened to be really obsessed by raw food stuff and had the nerve to tell me my recently very ill friend (kidney failure/diaylsis/eventual transplant after near death) should have just been eating more raw papaya and then he would have avoided all the problems. I didn't quite know whether to laugh at his outright inappropriate nerve or smack him in the face for rude and inconsiderate idiocy.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 2, 2016)

free spirit said:


> their body may be in prison, but in their heads they know that they're legally free men still...



It's not a prision though, it's an illegal assemblance of walls and so-called prison guards created by the state to provide the illusion of  authority over the actual real persons contained within who are free to leave at any time if only they knew it.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> It's not a prision though, it's an illegal assemblance of walls and so-called prison guards created by the state to provide the illusion of  authority over the actual real persons contained within who are free to leave at any time if only they knew it.


Unless they're on a ship.  Or something.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2016)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I didn't quite know whether to laugh at his outright inappropriate nerve or smack him in the face for rude and inconsiderate idiocy.


The latter.


----------



## kingfisher (Jun 2, 2016)

yeah but isnt the difference between your legal iad barrister/advocate and your 10k an hour QC what kind of "magic words" they can speak to the judge? and isnt there something in this of a kickback against that sloughing loads of cash away on lawyers that half (most) of the time go to the bar with the prosecution after youv been weighed off anyway?
howards marks defense was good magic words (it was legal because i was doing it for SIS) and worked, its worked for me sometimes too.
but yeah, if you look in there eyes and see the robotic without any passion then they are to use one of their phrases -shills- picking a protest camp archetype and pretending to be one. 
also i expect theres plenty here that would applaud (i would) the refusing to stand, 2 fingers to the judge more anarchist spin on not caring about going to jail (or going jail in lieu of paying fines) playing to a public gallery,full applause and doesnt have to buy any rounds when (s)hes out.
i aint going to jail though,


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2016)

kingfisher said:


> yeah but isnt the difference between your legal iad barrister/advocate and your 10k an hour QC what kind of "magic words" they can speak to the judge? and isnt there something in this of a kickback against that sloughing loads of cash away on lawyers that half (most) of the time go to the bar with the prosecution after youv been weighed off anyway?
> howards marks defense was good magic words (it was legal because i was doing it for SIS) and worked, its worked for me sometimes too.
> but yeah, if you look in there eyes and see the robotic without any passion then they are to use one of their phrases -shills- picking a protest camp archetype and pretending to be one.
> also i expect theres plenty here that would applaud (i would) the refusing to stand, 2 fingers to the judge more anarchist spin on not caring about going to jail (or going jail in lieu of paying fines) playing to a public gallery,full applause and doesnt have to buy any rounds when (s)hes out.
> i aint going to jail though,


Absolutely


----------



## mr steev (Jun 2, 2016)

gawkrodger said:


> I'll take a slight detour tomorrow and have a giggle


It's been replaced by a fruit pastel one now. It can't have been up for long as I pass there virtually every day and only noticed it once


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2016)

kingfisher said:


> yeah but isnt the difference between your legal iad barrister/advocate and your 10k an hour QC what kind of "magic words" they can speak to the judge? and isnt there something in this of a kickback against that sloughing loads of cash away on lawyers that half (most) of the time go to the bar with the prosecution after youv been weighed off anyway?
> howards marks defense was good magic words (it was legal because i was doing it for SIS) and worked, its worked for me sometimes too.
> but yeah, if you look in there eyes and see the robotic without any passion then they are to use one of their phrases -shills- picking a protest camp archetype and pretending to be one.
> also i expect theres plenty here that would applaud (i would) the refusing to stand, 2 fingers to the judge more anarchist spin on not caring about going to jail (or going jail in lieu of paying fines) playing to a public gallery,full applause and doesnt have to buy any rounds when (s)hes out.
> i aint going to jail though,




Howard Marks got 25 years, even though he knew the difference between there, their and they're.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 2, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Howard Marks got 25 years, even though he knew the difference between there, their and they're.



Maybe so, but apart from the 25 year sentence he got off scot-free. magic.


----------



## kingfisher (Jun 2, 2016)

yeah im talking about this one When arrested, he was in possession of numerous pieces of incriminating evidence, as well as £30,000 in cash.[41] Defended by Lord Hutchinson, Marks pleaded 'Not Guilty', concocting a story that he was an agent for MI6 (concealing the fact that his relation with MI6 ended in 1973) and the Mexican Secret Service that had set up an identity as a drug smuggler in order to close the net on James McCann (wanted in Britain for his IRA activities).[42] The jury found him innocent of drug smuggling, but guilty of using false passports and Marks was sentenced to two years imprisonment, but was released after five days having already served most of this time before sentencing was passed.[4
but you dont have to facetious -


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 2, 2016)

So in fact apart from the 2 year sentence, and being defended by Baron Hutchinson of Lullington, he got off through his own pure devious wit?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> So in fact apart from the 2 year sentence, and being defended by Baron Hutchinson of Lullington, he got off through his own pure devious wit?



You left out the guilty plea and plea bargain he made with HM Customs,the  grassing cunt Free Man.


----------



## kingfisher (Jun 2, 2016)

i once threw a freemans hat on the fire, because he was giving bad legal advice to activists. he later recanted that rubbish (well claimed to have never promoted it, but) i dont know, what would be a good bit of vandalism to put on these billboards? - "bollocks, take out a mortgage get a qc"?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2016)

Just write; but "legal to use an illegal name" underneath.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2016)

One in Guildford too has made the county newspaper, (not much happens in Surrey) This billboard's gone up in Guildford and everyone's baffled

It also has a poll if anyone's wanting to click a button.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 2, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It also has a poll if anyone's wanting to click a button.



Don't click it! If you click it, you recognise the jurisdiction of the illuminati LIZARDS of the family SPACE to do 9/11 in a boat on the land!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2016)

Gerry1time said:


> Don't click it! If you click it, you recognise the jurisdiction of the illuminati LIZARDS of the family SPACE to do 9/11 in a boat on the land!




Oddly enough, Illuminati are the runaway leaders of the poll...


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 2, 2016)

This Dundee article suggests the Advertising Standards Authority have investigated, got a bit confused and decided not to bother investigating any further: Mysterious billboards appear throughout Dundee - The Courier

I'd take issue with it 'not being harmful' if it's the gateway to the FOTL rabbit hole for just one person.


----------



## pengaleng (Jun 2, 2016)

swear I saw one of these while driving around canary wharf, I just thought it was some dickheads art project from shoreditch.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 2, 2016)

There's one in Salisbury


----------



## Whagwan (Jun 2, 2016)

Saw one today on the outside of Redpoint climbing centre Bristol...


----------



## Tom A (Jun 2, 2016)

Seen two examples in Greater Manchester, one in the city centre and the other in Radcliffe. Thought it was some lame "subvertising" at first.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2016)

So there are quite a few around.  Someone must have wasted a shed load of cash on this.   So somebody has scrimped and saved to give their son or perhaps grandson (lets face it, its bound to be a guy) a leg up and he's spunked it on this worthless nonsense.  What an undeserving twat.


----------



## Tom A (Jun 2, 2016)

A few of them have hung around activist circles in Greater Manchester, notably anti-fracking protests (particularly when Barton Moss was going on), and someone from UK Column was at an anti-benefit sanctions protest a few years ago, and they and the conspiraloon lot totally overrun OccupyMCR when Occupy was at its height. At present most of them are content to just participate in the various "Wake up (town)!" gatherings that take place in the area from time to time, although I am concerned that the Nuit Debout group will be prime pickings for them (but for now their influence has been limited, fingers crossed).


----------



## LDC (Jun 2, 2016)

Tom A said:


> A few of them have hung around activist circles in Greater Manchester, notably anti-fracking protests (particularly when Barton Moss was going on), and someone from UK Column was at an anti-benefit sanctions protest a few years ago, and they and the conspiraloon lot totally overrun OccupyMCR when Occupy was at its height. At present most of them are content to just participate in the various "Wake up (town)!" gatherings that take place in the area from time to time, although I am concerned that the Nuit Debout group will be prime pickings for them (but for now their influence has been limited, fingers crossed).



IMO they need treating as the disruptive and dodgy fuckheads they are, and they should be thrown out of any political space they appear in. The damage they do is underestimated.


----------



## Tom A (Jun 2, 2016)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> IMO they need treating as the disruptive and dodgy fuckheads they are, and they should be thrown out of any political space they appear in. The damage they do is underestimated.


Thankfully I think both sets of campaigns are large enough that the effects that these disruptive elements are having are negligible, and presently they have all gotten pretty bored and moved on as the more sensible people who make up the core of the campaigns stand firm. They are more likely to be making tits of themselves on social media than doing anything in real life, the main issue is that some people naively fail to recognise how disruptive such people can be, but IME the truly disruptive ones are soon given short shrift, when awkward truths started circulating about a prominent person who had become one of the leading voices of the anti-homelessness campaigns he (and the campaigns associated with him) soon went to ground.

Edit to add: Also another thing that people fail to realise until it's thrust into their face is that the vast majority of these freemen-on-the-land types encompass some very unpleasant and reactionary views - views which make them just as unpalatable as UKIPpers and fellow travellers.


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> and squandered it on shitty advertising


Strange, I know. There's crack and whores waiting to be bought.


----------



## colacubes (Jun 2, 2016)

Spotted one tonight in West Norwood.  Freemen reach SE27


----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 2, 2016)

Are you all sure this is not some no name tobacco advertising thing?


----------



## two sheds (Jun 2, 2016)

Presumably this is a teaser so the first of at least a couple.


----------



## bluescreen (Jun 2, 2016)

It's rather tragic:  Legal Name Fraud  Billboards


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2016)

A model codes an unsupported tome.


----------



## camouflage (Jun 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Its like a religion invented by alan patridge


----------



## Libertad (Jun 2, 2016)

Tom A said:


> although I am concerned that the Nuit Debout group will be prime pickings for them



I doubt that their shitwankery will have much success with the Napoleonic legal code.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 3, 2016)

bluescreen said:


> It's rather tragic:  Legal Name Fraud  Billboards



501 likes  Such a shame, all that money for so few likes.  The billboards appear to be spread out fairly evenly across the UK, I'd initially thought that it was a Southern England thing only.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

Saw one on Cardigan Road in Headingley, Leeds today


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

wow:
:HOME


----------



## bluescreen (Jun 3, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> wow:
> :HOME


Where capslock goes to die.

ETA: Why does the word POSTAL in there bother me so?


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2016)

wtf is it?


----------



## bluescreen (Jun 3, 2016)

two sheds said:


> wtf is it?


What's what, 2 sheds? These people are believers in magic words, is what.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2016)

bluescreen said:


> What's what, 2 sheds? These people are believers in magic words, is what.



None of it makes any sense, though. Normally I can make some sort of sense of what they're saying. Who's put the page up there, what's the relevance to the judge?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 3, 2016)

two sheds said:


> None of it makes any sense, though. Normally I can make some sort of sense of what they're saying. Who's put the page up there, what's the relevance to the judge?


He is the judge. A plenipotentiary judge. Google his name for a whole lot of loon-info.


----------



## bluescreen (Jun 3, 2016)

two sheds said:


> None of it makes any sense, though.Who's put the page up there, what's the relevance to the judge?


^^ This.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> He is the judge. A plenipotentiary judge. Google his name for a whole lot of loon-info.


David Wynn Miller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> He is the judge. A plenipotentiary judge. Google his name for a whole lot of loon-info.



Ta. 

And jesus - I've never seen so many words with so little meaning. Impressive. 

King of Hawaii though


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Ta.
> 
> And jesus - I've never seen so many words with so little meaning. Impressive.
> 
> King of Hawaii though


the wiki entry has a long list of people who have tried using his syntax and failed


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 3, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> the wiki entry has a long list of people who have tried using his syntax and failed



I particularly liked:



> In August 2001, Paul and Myrna Schuck unsuccessfully used Miller's language during a tax-evasion trial in Calgary, Alberta. They were later sentenced to jail after claiming postage affixed to their clothing and signed by them made them legally equivalent to royalty.[2][14]


----------



## Celyn (Jun 3, 2016)

I'm glad this lady with the hammers and knives failed:



> In 2008, Wai'anae, Hawaii, resident Rita Makekau was convicted of eight counts of assault and one count of domestic abuse for injuring five children in her care with hammers and knives.[31] In 2009, Makekau challenged her child abuse conviction by claiming her sovereignty group, Hawaiian Kingdom Government, declared her innocent. Miller said he is the group's spokesperson and is a "plenipotentiary judge, ambassador and postmaster".[32] Makekau was ordered to prison in 2009.


 David Wynn Miller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 3, 2016)

> Defendants have attempted to use Miller's language or ideas in courts of the United States and Canada.
> 
> These attempts have been uniformly unsuccessful.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

Plenipotentiary


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

You might as well stand up in court and say abacadabra,  pif paf pouf,  hocus pocus,  alakazam, open sesame,  sentence sentence go away come back again another day for all the good it will do


----------



## Celyn (Jun 3, 2016)

This guy should have tried the illegal/illegal name stuff:



> A priest has been suspended after he admitted assaulting a police officer and a paramedic on a drunken night out.
> 
> The Reverend Gareth Jones swore at officers and claimed he had diplomatic immunity from the Vatican when he was arrested two weeks ago.


 Drunken priest suspended after kicking PC and trying to bite paramedic - BBC News


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jun 3, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> You might as well stand up in court and say abacadabra,  pif paf pouf,  hocus pocus,  alakazam, open sesame,  sentence sentence go away come back again another day for all the good it will do


You leave me out of this. The Pocus branch of the family has nothing to do with me.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 3, 2016)

From that wiki article, to clarify something mentioned earlier:



> A major tenet, according to interviews with Miller published on the Internet, is that Maritime Law is the only worldwide governing authority because the Earth is a vessel in a sea of space.



Makes perfect sense.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 3, 2016)

I really wish one would come on here so we can play with them for entertainment. The CT idiots of recent years on here have been pretty tame and tedious, I want some proper bananas stuff for giggles.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Jun 3, 2016)

I've seen several of these in London, including one in South Norwood. 

I had no idea what they were about until this thread.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2016)

These are my favourite posters since _Andre The Giant Has a Posse. _


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

8ball said:


> These are my favourite posters since _Andre The Giant Has a Posse. _


????


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> ????


Aaah
Andre the Giant Has a Posse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> ????


----------



## Libertad (Jun 3, 2016)




----------



## Whagwan (Jun 4, 2016)




----------



## Whagwan (Jun 4, 2016)

Apparently Kate of Gaia ain't happy someone has stolen her madness:

"oh yeah...google legal name fraud but ignore the legalnamefraud.com site...they're thieves and liars and THAT SITE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME, just the work they stole to profit from that cost me and countless people everything to get out to humanity as a whole....sorry, when you're bleeding on your knees without a legal name to work with and no money because the system raped ya clean kinda low, family, home, everything destroyed via blasphemy...a blast from me to show their blaze-fee-me.....these azazholes like any other filthy lye-ink jew faggot LEVITE DEED D'OGS in their SIGN_OG_GOGS thought they could steal that before it was unavail-ABEL to steal......thieves and back stabbers....anyone who knows me knows that ROSE takes care of the essays and word sites...SHE'S the go to girl and they've never come to her....we just blocked them when they showed their true yellow and blood red shit marks is all....so....just saying.... www.kateofgaia.wordpress.com is HOME BASS....come and play a KRT tune with me....they're in your head as you read the book of life itself, kate"

Kate Rene | Facebook


----------



## Celyn (Jun 4, 2016)

Wow. There are some "interesting" people about.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 4, 2016)

Whagwan said:


> Apparently Kate of Gaia ain't happy someone has stolen her madness:
> 
> "oh yeah...google legal name fraud but ignore the legalnamefraud.com site...they're thieves and liars and THAT SITE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME, just the work they stole to profit from that cost me and countless people everything to get out to humanity as a whole....sorry, when you're bleeding on your knees without a legal name to work with and no money because the system raped ya clean kinda low, family, home, everything destroyed via blasphemy...a blast from me to show their blaze-fee-me.....these azazholes like any other filthy lye-ink jew faggot LEVITE DEED D'OGS in their SIGN_OG_GOGS thought they could steal that before it was unavail-ABEL to steal......thieves and back stabbers....anyone who knows me knows that ROSE takes care of the essays and word sites...SHE'S the go to girl and they've never come to her....we just blocked them when they showed their true yellow and blood red shit marks is all....so....just saying.... www.kateofgaia.wordpress.com is HOME BASS....come and play a KRT tune with me....they're in your head as you read the book of life itself, kate"
> 
> Kate Rene | Facebook



... and it would be them pesky Jews again...


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 4, 2016)

Thanks beesonthewhatnow for your recommendation upthread to check out the quite amazing phenomenon that is the WeRe Bank. I have spent hours open mouthed in awe. I have laughed so hard I have tears running down my face reading the saga unfold on forums. And I've ended up incredibly fucking angry that the guy is still out there, still recruiting people to sign up for his £10 / month scam to get out of paying debts and council tax and all those pesky made up bills that don't apply to freemen. 

It's just mind-warping that a lot of the victims obviously believe that the cheques have failed because of the evil actions of Zionist banking cartels and nothing to do with the 'Peter of England' who has merrily taken their money, cos he's just a guy doing his best to help people wake up! 

I really struggle to get my head around this kind of mass delusion, it really makes me despair. And horrified to find several acquaintances have 'Liked' both Peter and his bank on FB...


----------



## Almor (Jun 4, 2016)

There's one on Mill Road in Cambridge 

I just assumed it was some hip viral marketing that an old (ish) man like me should ignore


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 4, 2016)

At some point the billboard company are going to get a phone call from their bank about that WeRe Bank cheque aren't they?


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 4, 2016)

lazythursday said:


> And horrified to find several acquaintances have 'Liked' both Peter and his bank on FB...



yeh, but how many of the likes are from people like myself who have liked the pages so we can get a good giggle every time they post something?


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 4, 2016)

gawkrodger said:


> yeh, but how many of the likes of from people like myself who have liked the pages so we can get a good giggle every time they post something?


Oh I wish that was true of my friends. Sadly I'm remembering a drunken conversation where one of them was enthusing about this amazing new bank that was going to shake the system up...


----------



## kingfisher (Jun 5, 2016)

lol


----------



## Tom A (Jun 5, 2016)

Libertad said:


> I doubt that their shitwankery will have much success with the Napoleonic legal code.


I am talking about the Nuit Debout assemblies that are happening in the UK out of sympathy and inspiration from the French ones.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 5, 2016)

What's this Nuit Debout thing? I had assumed it was merely a French Occupy thing


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 5, 2016)

kingfisher said:


> lol




Been done already #100


----------



## kingfisher (Jun 5, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> Been done already #100


 oh fuckin repost fail shit


----------



## Sue (Jun 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What's this Nuit Debout thing? I had assumed it was merely a French Occupy thing



It's a protest against proposed changes to employment laws/rights which are bad for employees who, unsurprisingly, are unhappy about the changes and feel particularly betrayed that these are coming from a 'Socialist' government.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2016)

It's a lot wider than that though that is there. It wasn't at the start, it was a bunch of five or classic liberals meting for a meal and drawing up and experts plan - demands for a new constitution (written by a panel of experts of clourse) and all sorts of reclaim citizenship and rights based stuff. But, following the trajectory of most things recently with the "worse-off entering and transforming protests initiated by the better-off" it's became a lot more interesting.


----------



## kingfisher (Jun 6, 2016)

Tom A said:


> I am talking about the Nuit Debout assemblies that are happening in the UK out of sympathy and inspiration from the French ones.


have you been to one of these assemblies?


----------



## N_igma (Jun 6, 2016)

All in all you're just another brick in the wall.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 6, 2016)

I find it strange that people would rather ridicule these people than attempt to side with them. I'm not saying they're right. I'm just wondering why people would rather side with the system than the people who are trying to fight it, regardless of how deluded they might be


----------



## emanymton (Jun 6, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> I find it strange that people would rather ridicule these people than attempt to side with them. I'm not saying they're right. I'm just wondering why people would rather side with the system than the people who are trying to fight it, regardless of how deluded they might be


I really wasn't all to happy with the let's laugh at police brutality video posted up thread, that's for sure. OK they're dickheads. But that video was nothing but a series of totally over the top violent reactions from the cops. I know what side I'm on in every one of those cases.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 6, 2016)

emanymton said:


> I really wasn't all to happy with the let's laugh at police brutality video posted up thread, that's for sure. OK they're dickheads. But that video was nothing but a series of totally over the top violent reactions from the cops. I know what side I'm on in every one of those cases.


Forgive me if I appear to be a wooly liberal, but I totally agree with you!
Regardless of how deluded these people might be, surely we would be better standing behind them than walking an obsequious path?


----------



## Libertad (Jun 6, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> Forgive me if I appear to be a wooly liberal, but I totally agree with you!
> Regardless of how deluded these people might be, surely we would be better standing behind them than walking an obsequious path?



My enemy's enemy does not automatically make them my friend. FOTLs supposed pursuit of the troof merely acts to obfuscate matters that should demand examination.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 6, 2016)

Libertad said:


> My enemy's enemy does not automatically make them my friend. FOTLs supposed pursuit of the troof merely acts to obfuscate matters that should demand examination.


Granted, but anything that questions authority can surely only be a good thing, regardless of the level of sanity?

I'd rather side with them than ridicule them.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 6, 2016)

Your choice though I wouldn't waste any effort on it.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jun 6, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> I find it strange that people would rather ridicule these people than attempt to side with them. I'm not saying they're right. I'm just wondering why people would rather side with the system than the people who are trying to fight it, regardless of how deluded they might be


The problem is they are adamant that their methods work - ie its not just aren't just them taking a stand against an unjust system, the say these methods will really get people out of legal/financial trouble.  And some things associated with them - like the WeRe bank - seems like nothing more than cons that'll make someone rich.  I don't want them preying on vulnerable people - i don't want them convincing activists or people having housing problems or whatever to use their methods (as a way of solving problems rather than a method of resistance) rather than getting proper legal advice.  My first response would usually be to argue against but my limited experience is that that doesn't usually work, so i guess ridicule is what's left.  Plus as you see in that kate of gaia quote above in which she uses antisemitic insults, lots of them have dodgy views about lots of things.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 6, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> I find it strange that people would rather ridicule these people than attempt to side with them. I'm not saying they're right. I'm just wondering why people would rather side with the system than the people who are trying to fight it, regardless of how deluded they might be


Because they're clowns that devalue and stain any argument they come into contact with. How do you feel about siding with e.g. George Galloway? Or conspiracy theorists? 

Associate with that stuff and you offer up yourself and anything you have to say to be immediately dismissed on someone else's batshit terms.

Also it's not even well aligned to anything progressive. It smells a lot more like libertarianism than anything else IMO.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> I find it strange that people would rather ridicule these people than attempt to side with them. I'm not saying they're right. I'm just wondering why people would rather side with the system than the people who are trying to fight it, regardless of how deluded they might be


I'd be a lot more inclined to side with them if they were actually after some sort of genuine political change, rather than just trying to get out of paying tax and parking fines.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2016)

They're part of a milieu which is politically far right to its core. Read the political bits of that bloke ou linked to. Why would anyone attempt to side with them beyond defending common shared rights (which they actually usually reject). Which is totally compatible with ridiculing them. Anything else just bolsters the far right element of their approach. 

Just change fotl for ickettes and see how well that attempt to support then logic stands up


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 6, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Your choice though I wouldn't waste any effort on it.


Why would you side with a bunch of fucking idiots who are wrong about pretty much everything?


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> *I'd be a lot more inclined to side with them if they were actually after some sort of genuine political change,* rather than just trying to get out of paying tax and parking fines.



And if they didn't talk complete bollocks.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 6, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Why would you side with a bunch of fucking idiots who are wrong about pretty much everything?


Sorry, I meant to quote Saul Goodman, rather than you.


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 6, 2016)

Where they do want political change it's profoundly regressive. They reject all democratically made law as invalid preferring some mystical version of the 'common law' from the middle ages. I do think that a lot of people who are attracted to the FOTL arguments do so because of anti-establishment, anti-capitalist feelings, but they are led down the rabbit hole to some awful places both personally and politically, that's what's so insidious about it. One acquaintance who started on this shit a few years ago has ended up being completely devoted to the views of some really unpleasant right wing US libertarians like Stephen Molyneux who spout racist and misogynist shit. Gone from helping out on transition town type initiatives to proclaiming that climate change is a con to fleece us all of our money and trap us in a new world order.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 6, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Sorry, I meant to quote Saul Goodman, rather than you.



'sfine, I read it as a rhetorical question.


----------



## Tom A (Jun 6, 2016)

kingfisher said:


> have you been to one of these assemblies?


No, but I know a few people who have been involved in the Manchester one at its conception, and according to them its a case of so far, so good. But I know all too well what happened with Occupy, and Nuit Debout does seem at face value to be an "Occupy mark 2" - at least outside of France.



butchersapron said:


> Just change fotl for ickettes and see how well that attempt to support then logic stands up



A lot of FOTL types also subscribe to the views of Icke and/or other batshit conspiracy theorists.


----------



## kingfisher (Jun 6, 2016)

Tom A said:


> No, but I know a few people who have been involved in the Manchester one at its conception, and according to them its a case of so far, so good. But I know all too well what happened with Occupy, and Nuit Debout does seem at face value to be an "Occupy mark 2" - at least outside of France.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of FOTL types also subscribe to the views of Icke and/or other batshit conspiracy theorists.


i could tell you about the london one - and you wouldnt like it -


----------



## Tom A (Jun 6, 2016)

kingfisher said:


> i could tell you about the london one - and you wouldnt like it -


I don't think I need to be told, I can merely imagine. Not heard much about the Manchester one after its initial gathering, all the activity seems to be on the Facebook page, which was a similar fault with Occupy, after the initial momentum the organisation as such ceases to exist outside of social media.


----------



## Idaho (Jun 11, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> They're part of a milieu which is politically far right to its core. Read the political bits of that bloke ou linked to. Why would anyone attempt to side with them beyond defending common shared rights (which they actually usually reject). Which is totally compatible with ridiculing them. Anything else just bolsters the far right element of their approach.
> 
> Just change fotl for ickettes and see how well that attempt to support then logic stands up


I think calling this right wing ascribes a coherence and consistency that it simply doesn't have. It's more like a semantic trick or logical/mental loop that some people get stuck in.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2016)

Idaho said:


> I think calling this right wing ascribes a coherence and consistency that it simply doesn't have. It's more like a semantic trick or logical/mental loop that some people get stuck in.


Yeah. All them long lasting  and sustained substantive right wing connections are purely accidental. Nothing to see here.

I don't think calling something so embedded in right-wing thinking what it is ascribes it any consistency and coherence beyond the self-evident description of it being part of far-narratives about law, history and society. To deny its role in this is in fact to perform a counter-ascription whereby paranoid lefties are always getting the wrong end of the stick. Especially me. Yep, esp me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2016)




----------



## Idaho (Jun 11, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah. All them long lasting  and sustained substantive right wing connections are purely accidental. Nothing to see here.
> 
> I don't think calling something so embedded in right-wing thinking what it is ascribes it any consistency and coherence beyond the self-evident description of it being part of far-narratives about law, history and society. To deny its role in this is in fact to perform a counter-ascription whereby paranoid lefties are always getting the wrong end of the stick. Especially me. Yep, esp me.


There are people who are right wing through a set of values, principles and beliefs. And then there are people who emotionally connect with similar conclusions while bypassing any values, principles and thoughts. Yes, they are fellow travellers, but I just don't think they come from the same place.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 18, 2016)

blurring forum boundary lines, but the baton rouge cop killer was a part of the sovereign citizens movement 

Baton Rouge officers ambushed by gunman with radical views


----------



## NoXion (Jul 18, 2016)

I'm always struck by how these idiots seem to think that uttering incantations can somehow turn away a uniform bearing weapons and a willingness to use said weapons.

_"Legal. Illegal. I'm the guy with the gun."_


----------



## 8ball (Jul 20, 2016)

NoXion said:


> I'm always struck by how these idiots seem to think that uttering incantations can somehow turn away a uniform bearing weapons and a willingness to use said weapons.
> 
> _"Legal. Illegal. I'm the guy with the gun."_



There a kind of sweet naivety in the way they believe in a real thing called 'the law' which is based on something more than who has the weapons and the backup.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 28, 2016)

Police in armed standoff with gunman in Surrey village

Police in armed standoff with someone apparently claiming to be a Freeman. Surely Magna Carta says they can't point guns at him.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 28, 2016)

Police in armed standoff with gunman in Surrey village


----------



## brogdale (Jul 28, 2016)

Police in armed standoff with gunman in Surrey village



> _Armed police are locked in an ongoing standoff with a gunman in a Surrey village.
> Police raided the house in Smallfield at 6am as part of a planned operation but were confronted by a person wielding a firearm._





> _A business owner, who wished to remain anonymous, told the Surrey Mirror he believes the incident began as a drugs raid.
> He said: “I’ve heard rumours that it started off as a drug raid and I believe that the chap in there has got a gun and *he was saying, ‘I’m a free man of the land*.’_


Should get off, then?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 28, 2016)

was just about to post that.

Apparently "sovereign citizens" / freemen on the land are considered the biggest terrorist threat in the USA by the fbi, even more than isis apparently.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 28, 2016)

Snap, snap, snap!

Quiet news day?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 28, 2016)

One of those billboards has appeared on my road as well


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 28, 2016)

a soon to be nicked if he's lucky of the land man


----------



## nogojones (Jul 28, 2016)

Ahhh. They've reached Wales...


----------



## kabbes (Jul 28, 2016)

There's one of these in Crutched Friars in The City (just behind Fenchurch Street Station).  It's been there a week or so.  I have been wondering what the hell it related to.


----------



## Manter (Jul 28, 2016)

IndyCamp loses legal fight against Holyrood eviction - BBC News

Jesus Christ has made Second Coming to back the indy camp, Court of Session hears - The Courier

The Indy camp outside Holyrood seems to have gone a bit mad. They are citing Jesus and the queen and all sorts; judge said he was baffled that they simultaneously told him he had no jurisdiction and asked him to rule


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 28, 2016)

nogojones said:


> Ahhh. They've reached Wales...View attachment 90033



I'm going to drive back home on a slight diversion to see that. Can't quantify how dull that makes me.


----------



## Whagwan (Jul 28, 2016)

Was a thing on R4 this lunch about that WeBank bollocks and people who'd been conned into giving them money to pay off their debts with WeBank cheques...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 28, 2016)

Manter said:


> The Indy camp outside Holyrood seems to have gone a bit mad. They are citing Jesus and the queen and all sorts; judge said he was baffled that they simultaneously told him he had no jurisdiction and asked him to rule


Don't know about "gone"...They've, putting it mildly, been their own worst enemies all along. 

Here's a blog from June explaining, in even handed but exasperated fashion, where they went wrong: 

Lallands Peat Worrier: Stone cold morons


----------



## Manter (Jul 28, 2016)

If 'stone cold morons' is even handed they are in trouble!


----------



## josef1878 (Jul 28, 2016)

Made it to Wigan now.


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

We've got one now, new since yesterday (Loughborough Junction , SE5). 
So they haven't run out of money yet. It's very mysterious.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

Two - right next to each other - have popped up in Bedminster


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Two - right next to each other - have popped up in Bedminster


One on _the most dangerous street in britain _as well. Right by the station.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Two - right next to each other - have popped up in Bedminster


and one in finsbury park on stroud green road


----------



## gawkrodger (Aug 23, 2016)

New one just popped up on the Brum New Road in Wolves. 

I actually shouted 'YES!' when driving past it earlier


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

Looks like they're having a resurgence then, a second wind?

Their website is great at explaining what to do next, when you've seen the poster:

"Just call evil into the light and leave it at that….here’s the trumpet call, the seventh sign, trumpet, seal and crown…..seven deadly words to evil…..IT IS ILLEGAL TO USE A LEGAL NAME…..that’s the GOD-SPELL GO-SPELL breaker right there…..not one false profit expert can diffuse that thy-me bomb.."


Legal Name Fraud Explained | Legal Name Fraud


----------



## The Boy (Aug 23, 2016)

Also in Edinburgh.  Saw one weeks ago opposite a bus stop I don't normally pass.  Looked a bit shabby and like it was due to he replaced.

Spotted a brand new one nearby yesterday though, so they're obvs still going.


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

why is it that you're always just one click away from david icke / loads of rabid roschchilds stuff with this sort of thing.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> Looks like they're having a resurgence then, a second wind?
> 
> Their website is great at explaining what to do next, when you've seen the poster:
> 
> ...


That's definitely clarified things for me


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> why is it that you're always just one click away from david icke / loads of rabid roschchilds stuff with this sort of thing.


Because that's what it is. It's not one click away from it. It _is _it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> why is it that you're always just one click away from david icke / loads of rabid roschchilds stuff with this sort of thing.


rothschilds?


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Because that's what it is. It's not once click away from it. It _is _it.


I didn't know. Thought they were equal opportunities lunatics.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> I didn't know. Thought they were equal opportunities lunatics.


I _think _you'll find they prefer 'lunar-ticks'


----------



## JimW (Aug 23, 2016)

Ran into an old acquaintance down the pub last week, survivor of the Beanfield, who's now gone full freeman. Tried to argue but you just can't win, shame as he's a lovely bloke. Hopefully a minor court failure will get him out of it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

JimW said:


> Ran into an old acquaintance down the pub last week, survivor of the Beanfield, who's now gone full freeman. Tried to argue but you just can't win, shame as he's a lovely bloke. Hopefully a minor court failure will get him out of it.


was he giving it large to the poor barman about how he should get free beer?


----------



## JimW (Aug 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> was he giving it large to the poor barman about how he should get free beer?


Sounded like it was some other traffic thing got him started, but he was happy with contractual obligations for goods and services as I recall.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> was he giving it large to the poor barman about how he should get free beer?



There's free beer?

eta.  "The whore of baby-loans" FTW


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

8ball said:


> There's free beer?


only if you're a master freeman.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 23, 2016)

I guess what's interesting about it (as a social phenomenon - I realise it's just annoying in the political sense) is that it's almost full Narnia-level belief in magic. The _deep law_, beyond the law that you see. All you have to do is call on Aslan/say the magic words, and the magic will be revealed. I find it interesting to see how belief in magic re-emerges in a secular society I suppose.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> I guess what's interesting about it (as a social phenomenon - I realise it's just annoying in the political sense) is that it's almost full Narnia-level belief in magic. The _deep law_, beyond the law that you see. All you have to do is call on Aslan/say the magic words, and the magic will be revealed. I find it interesting to see how belief in magic re-emerges in a secular society I suppose.


i find it interesting there's a belief it ever went away.

you might like to look at e.g. edward lovett's 'magic in modern london' and owen davies' 'witchcraft continued'


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i find it interesting there's a belief it ever went away.
> 
> you might like to look at e.g. edward lovett's 'magic in modern london' and owen davies' 'witchcraft continued'



This kind of earnest media evangelising is new.  To me, at least.

They'd have more success if the free beer was emphasized.


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

It is definitely special that the posters don't even link to their website or anything, seems the posters themselves are believed to have magical powers.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> It is definitely special that the posters don't even link to their website or anything, seems the posters themselves are believed to have magical powers.



I think I know their purpose.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> It is definitely special that the posters don't even link to their website or anything, seems the posters themselves are believed to have magical powers.


Spoken like a true sceptic who hasn't even _touched _one of the posters


----------



## mauvais (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> It is definitely special that the posters don't even link to their website or anything, seems the posters themselves are believed to have magical powers.


These people _never _have good websites. Even if they managed to outmanoeuvre The Fall Of Geocities, their copy of Microsoft FrontPage '97 will have finally turned to dust.


----------



## 8den (Aug 23, 2016)

I just noticed one in Belfast the other week.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2016)

hopefully theres enough money for a tv ad campaign cos 2016 hasn't been fucked up enough yet


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> hopefully theres enough money for a tv ad campaign cos 2016 hasn't been fucked up enough yet


wait till the end of the week and by then i think you'll agree it's all fucked up and there's no way back


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 23, 2016)

There's one by Camden Road station now.


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

At this rate the poster-spell will soon have been cast across the land, and all the babies shall be born nameless and FREE.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There's one by Camden Road station now.


you know what they're like, you leave them alone and then they multiply like rabbits


----------



## 8den (Aug 23, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There's one by Camden Road station now.



Does anyone know who's funding them, they've clearly incredibly stupid and have some degree of liquid assets, and I feel I the former trait might make separating them from their money quite easy.


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

This is what came of someone's best attempt to find out who bought all the ad space:

'..An email address is also provided by Whois.net, but when I sent it a message I received a reply from a "D-ohm T-Wat" consisting of nothing more than Kate of Gaia's email address.   
None of this means that Kate of Gaia paid for the billboards - which potentially cost hundreds of thousands of pounds. It's also not clear why they appear across the UK when she appears to be based in Canada.."

The mystery of the 'legal name fraud' billboards - BBC News


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2016)

thats dumb twat isn't it? someones on a windup


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

So the owner has quite deliberately used the way they mangle words on their website to name himself "Dumb Twat".


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

Yes - Dumb Twat - i didn't even see that. Curiouser & curiouser. very very expensive wind-up.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 23, 2016)

Anyone would think it was a bad idea to let anyone with enough cash use public space to assault the public consciousness with whatever shit they like.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2016)

thats communism frank 

I'm thinking the website and the whois registration might be the piss take whereas the boards are by a genuine madman, the one we discussed earlier in the thread


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2016)

Still up round the corner of my work.  Prime space in the square mile does not come cheap.

It's been annotated with extra info too.  Not sure you can see that or not in my photo


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

what does the extra bit say?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

kabbes said:


> View attachment 91386 Still up round the corner of my work.  Prime space in the square mile does not come cheap.
> 
> It's been annotated with extra info too.  Not sure you can see that or not in my photo


you should use a spray paint in future rather than writing in marker


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone would think it was a bad idea to let anyone with enough cash use public space to assault the public consciousness with whatever shit they like.



I think the stuff on all the other billboards is more pervasive and sinister.  No one seems to pipe up about those.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 23, 2016)

8ball said:


> I think the stuff on all the other billboards is more pervasive and sinister.  No one seems to pipe up about those.



I agree, but these billboards with their meaningless and context-free slogan are a good ilustration of the general point that billboards can fuck off.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> I agree, but these billboards with their meaningless and context-free slogan are a good ilustration of the general point that billboards can fuck off.



They give people something to ponder.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2016)

bimble said:


> what does the extra bit say?


It's like sub-DaVinci Code meanderings. I'll see if I can get a close up without looking like (more of) a weirdo


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

8ball said:


> They give people something to ponder.


*fnord*

Exactly, nothing even slightly nefarious about them


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

kabbes said:


> It's like sub-DaVinci Code meanderings. I'll see if I can get a close up without looking like (more of) a weirdo



Let us know when you find the messages in really small print.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Exactly, nothing even slightly nefarious about them



Well, when I was a kid I used to ponder over the big, sweeping desert vistas that turned out to be cigarette adverts.
They were a little nefarious too.

Maybe these should have a health warning to make everyone happy.

"May make you think you know magic spells that can help you evade parking tickets" or some such...


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2016)

Drive-by photos.

The second one exhorts us to find the truth by visiting "YOURTUBE"


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2016)

no mention of rosicrucians. You promised Dan Brown type conspiracies. Theres not even a mention of the Templars


----------



## brogdale (Aug 23, 2016)

kabbes said:


> View attachment 91389
> View attachment 91391
> 
> Drive-by photos.
> ...


Shouldn't that be _yourtube_?


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Shouldn't that be _yourtube_?



You're tube.

It is advising topological self-reflection.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> no mention of rosicrucians. You promised Dan Brown type conspiracies. Theres not even a mention of the Templars


Sub-Dan Brown, I said.  I think it qualifies


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2016)

My walk-by photography skills are poor  I missed the full panoply of nonsense.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Shouldn't that be _yourtube_?


YoreTube:


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2016)

go out there with a marker pen and draw some masonic symbols on it for the lols. Eye n pyramid ftw


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 23, 2016)

One has appeared just today outside the Home of Football (Recreation Park, Alloa). I doubt that billboard will have cost too much though.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> go out there with a marker pen and draw some masonic symbols on it for the lols. Eye n pyramid ftw



I like to doodle these symbols in boring work meetings.  Get odd looks sometimes.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Aug 23, 2016)

8ball said:


> Well, when I was a kid I used to ponder over the big, sweeping desert vistas that turned out to be cigarette adverts.
> They were a little nefarious too.
> 
> Maybe these should have a health warning to make everyone happy.
> ...



Those "big sweeping desert vistas" were an award-winning advertising campaign and yes they were for cigarettes. You only way you knew that they were cigarette adverts was because of the health warning. They were superb surrealist images that made you work to guess which brand was being advertised. It was Benson and Hedges I liked them, despite not being a smoker.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2016)

Silk Cut had some great adverts. It was so long ago I can't remember if that wanker blair ever succeded in getting fag ads banned from F1


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Silk Cut had some great adverts. It was so long ago I can't remember if that wanker blair ever succeded in getting fag ads banned from F1


he was only shaking whatsisname down for some cash.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2016)

bernie ecclestone. Wow born 1930 and still going!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> bernie ecclestone. Wow born 1930 and still going!


Outlived the NSDAP government of Germany for whatever that's worth


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 23, 2016)

Two new ones in Bristol, Avonvale Rd in Barton Hill and another near Tescos at Eastgate. I'm still mystified as from the FMOTL shit I've read (due to variously conspiranoid mates) this poster doesn't make sense even in its _own_ context...


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 23, 2016)

I think I might understand it if it read ''_It's unlawful to use a legal name_'' or ''_It's illegal to use a lawful name_'' or something, I know how their word-magic works.

It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. Just that little turn about.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 23, 2016)

There's one in my town which has been confusing me.  Glad I found this thread but still don't understand tbh.


----------



## bimble (Aug 23, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> There's one in my town which has been confusing me.  Glad I found this thread but still don't understand tbh.


OVERstand.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> understand





bimble said:


> OVERstand


Wombling freemen


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 25, 2016)

Jeez, Bristol's awash with the bastard things. Stapleton Rd, Muller Rd and Totterdown. What does it all mean? Is it a slow-burn yogurt promotion? Some new coffee on the way? Are they fucking with me, subliminally?


----------



## pinkychukkles (Aug 25, 2016)

Ones popped up on Woodgrange Road under the Overground bridge next to Wanstead Park Station in E7, Forest Gate in London.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 25, 2016)

Saw one off the Holloway Road//london a couple of days ago


----------



## bimble (Aug 25, 2016)

Is it just this country (and Scotland ) that they're spamming with posters?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 25, 2016)

The website has been jazzzed up a bit (see what I did there) and now contains this wondrfully bizarre video:



Still absolutely nothing coherent on there of course.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 25, 2016)

There's the opportunity for someone to capitalise on this campaign by fiddling google to become the top result when people search for this shit. If I was capable of this I'd just promote a page that said in a large font 'JUST PAY YOUR FUCKING PARKING TICKET LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AND FUCK OFF WITH THIS NONSENSE'.


----------



## nogojones (Aug 25, 2016)

Another one has popped up round the corner now. What are they getting out of it apart from some lulz? I wonder what the Advertising Standards people think of these boards


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 25, 2016)

nogojones said:


> I wonder what the Advertising Standards people think of these boards





> The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) confirmed to me that it had received seven complaints about the posters on the basis that they were ambiguous or misleading.
> 
> "Some questioned whether it would lead law-abiding people into thinking they've committed fraud or a crime by having a name," a spokesman said.
> 
> ...


The mystery of the 'legal name fraud' billboards - BBC News


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Aug 25, 2016)

I Really want to subvert these billboards with some sort of witty and offensive message, however I can't think of anything good enough at the moment, mainly cos I'm at work and therefore not drunk.

Any ideas?


----------



## nogojones (Aug 25, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> The mystery of the 'legal name fraud' billboards - BBC News


 and why would someone spunk "£100,000-ish" on doing it


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 25, 2016)

nogojones said:


> and why would someone spunk "£100,000-ish" on doing it


----------



## Plumdaff (Aug 25, 2016)

nogojones said:


> Another one has popped up round the corner now. What are they getting out of it apart from some lulz? I wonder what the Advertising Standards people think of these boards



There's another one in Cardiff? Where? It cheers up my commute to detour past the ridiculousness.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 25, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> There's the opportunity for someone to capitalise on this campaign by fiddling google to become the top result when people search for this shit. If I was capable of this I'd just promote a page that said in a large font 'JUST PAY YOUR FUCKING PARKING TICKET LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AND FUCK OFF WITH THIS NONSENSE'.


blatantly what magistrates wish they could say


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 25, 2016)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I Really want to subvert these billboards with some sort of witty and offensive message, however I can't think of anything good enough at the moment, mainly cos I'm at work and therefore not drunk.
> 
> Any ideas?


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 25, 2016)

there's one on my road as well.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Aug 25, 2016)

One opposite Gospel Oak station and another round the corner on Highgate Road. I suspect they may be advertising a new tv game show (who else could afford it all!?)


----------



## nogojones (Aug 25, 2016)

Plumdaff said:


> There's another one in Cardiff? Where? It cheers up my commute to detour past the ridiculousness.


Heading towards Leckwith ASDA, by the railway bridge at Ninian Park station


----------



## Plumdaff (Aug 25, 2016)

nogojones said:


> Heading towards Leckwith ASDA, by the railway bridge at Ninian Park station



Excellent I pass that every day


----------



## souljacker (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm in Middlesbrough and I spotted one on the road that goes down the side of the station, Bridge street?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Aug 25, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


>


10 AMAZING TRUTHS THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW ( - you won't believe number 6!)


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 6, 2016)

been seeing a bunch more of them go up recently.

That's some fucking inheritance!


----------



## Combustible (Oct 6, 2016)

All that money saved on council tax has got to go somewhere.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 6, 2016)

Theres one in Brighton too underneath the railway bridge


----------



## keybored (Oct 6, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


>


_Please_ say that's real


----------



## High Voltage (Oct 6, 2016)

One just off the M32 on the way into Bristol

and

One in Wells, Somerset just round by the cinema


----------



## A380 (Oct 6, 2016)

More of the new ones in Bedford.


----------



## RubyToogood (Oct 6, 2016)

Have the advertising standards authority not got anything to say about this?


----------



## kabbes (Oct 6, 2016)

RubyToogood said:


> Have the advertising standards authority not got anything to say about this?





lazythursday said:


> This Dundee article suggests the Advertising Standards Authority have investigated, got a bit confused and decided not to bother investigating any further: Mysterious billboards appear throughout Dundee - The Courier
> 
> I'd take issue with it 'not being harmful' if it's the gateway to the FOTL rabbit hole for just one person.



.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 6, 2016)

Just for giggles some mainstream corporate drinks company or bank or someone like that needs to do an advert in very similar style, in such a way that it makes it look like the original billboards were just a teaser for their campaign and nothing else ("The Truth - Diet Coke is tasty"). Imagine the apoplexy of the fotlers.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 6, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Just for giggles some mainstream corporate drinks company or bank or someone like that needs to do an advert in very similar style, in such a way that it makes it look like the original billboards were just a teaser for their campaign and nothing else ("The Truth - Diet Coke is tasty"). Imagine the apoplexy of the fotlers.



HMRC should do it for collection of taxes.


----------



## eightball (Oct 6, 2016)

Spotted one in Crewe this week, pretty sure it's new


----------



## Maggot (Oct 6, 2016)

There's one gone up in Rye (E Sussex) recently.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 6, 2016)

There's a 'THE TRUTH' one in Truro now  Note the letters are ALL in capitals - legally significant. 

And is it just a coincidence that it was Libertad (clearly short for Libertarian m*a*n of the land) is the one who started this thread and gave *yet more* space to all this?

I don't think so.  

Deep cover.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 7, 2016)

two sheds said:


> There's a 'THE TRUTH' one in Truro now  Note the letters are ALL in capitals - legally significant.
> 
> And is it just a coincidence that it was Libertad (clearly short for Libertarian m*a*n of the land) is the one who started this thread and gave *yet more* space to all this?
> 
> ...



Rumbled.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 7, 2016)

I'm in Truro tomorrow two sheds, whereabouts is it in the metropolis?


----------



## pogofish (Oct 7, 2016)

At least one in Aberdeen just now - on the main road through the docks.  Just after the lights at Commerce St/Virginia St.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2016)

Libertad said:


> I'm in Truro tomorrow two sheds, whereabouts is it in the metropolis?



You're going down town where all the lights are bright eh? 

if you're arriving by train, walk out of the station and it's on your left. 

I think the phrase is "you can't miss it"


----------



## Libertad (Oct 7, 2016)

two sheds said:


> You're going down town where all the lights are bright eh?
> 
> if you're arriving by train, walk out of the station and it's on your left.
> 
> I think the phrase is "you can't miss it"



Bakunin's manor, there's your FOTL.  I'm going to have to forego the pleasure of viewing that one as I shall be incarcerated in County Hall for the day.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2016)

A harsh and unusual punishment 

They're also working on the road outside the station so it's closed as I discovered last night when I was hoping to catch a bus along it. 

There's also a fair few roadworks - they've closed the road through Threemilestone for example so there's more traffic on the main road into Truro.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 7, 2016)

two sheds said:


> A harsh and unusual punishment
> 
> They're also working on the road outside the station so it's closed as I discovered last night when I was hoping to catch a bus along it.
> 
> There's also a fair few roadworks - they've closed the road through Threemilestone for example so there's more traffic on the main road into Truro.



We've allowed an hour and a half to get there.  I did think that you might be going, for the shits and giggles an'that. PM me for details if you like. I was just about to message you but you've turned off convos.


----------



## jusali (Oct 7, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> "When pair-ents (two minds) or payer-rents choose to REGISTER their children, they are LITERALLY trading off the life source of the being that is SUCKED into that body in this reality for the whore of Baby-loans LEGAL NAME dead child, in essence, ADOPTING Satan’s child in LLEU of heaven’s child."
> 
> More here, lots more: Home - Legal Name Fraud



What the living fuck?


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 7, 2016)

That website is pretty special. It makes me suspect that the quoted 'Kate of Gaia' may in fact be the funder of the billboards. As well as serious mental health problems I see that she has a (sadly predictable in these circles) unhealthy obsession with the Rothschilds. I wonder at what point you could raise ethical questions about a billboard company taking the money of someone who is, to put it in the old fashioned parlance, mad? I mean, I don't expect the billboard companies themselves to have ethical concerns, but do we?


----------



## mojo pixy (Oct 7, 2016)

''A classic example of this schizophrenia freemen and paid-riots and legal goo-ruse of men go to jail and it’s easy to know why….legal is about minding everybody else’s business but your own and gone are the daze where we needed to do this legal challenge thing at all….that was before the fundamental change in the contracts all humanity is bound in where the knowledge of legal name fraud and, the legal fact that it’s illegal to use a legal name from any all birth certificates bares the clasula rebis sic stantibus escape clause into view. People like Notaries (not ari’s/knot-our-eyes) insist on schizophrenia where nothing can be not-arised without presenting your willingness to commit fraud by using a legal name that doesn’t belong to you but you think it does. Then the emotions kick in with “but my mummy and daddy gave me that name!!!!” as they stomp their widdle feet screaming like banshees vowing vengeance where the simple truth is all the vengeance you need. You’ll never get burned at the B.A.R. and be Cued again. Remember, evil won’t give up without a fight but it can’t harm you, only bluff you to extremes to try and coerce or trick you back into you being their hollow-wean tree-Te’s. It’s illegal to be a legal anything stops them in their tracks.''

And there it is. What it is, I'm not sure, but it is there.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2016)

jusali said:


> What the living fuck?


Parents = Payer Rents


----------



## JimW (Oct 7, 2016)

Do you think they adapt it for Scottish law and pretend to be in a Clyde steamer when taken to court?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 7, 2016)

mojo pixy said:


> ''A classic example of this schizophrenia freemen and paid-riots and legal goo-ruse of men go to jail and it’s easy to know why….legal is about minding everybody else’s business but your own and gone are the daze where we needed to do this legal challenge thing at all….that was before the fundamental change in the contracts all humanity is bound in where the knowledge of legal name fraud and, the legal fact that it’s illegal to use a legal name from any all birth certificates bares the clasula rebis sic stantibus escape clause into view. People like Notaries (not ari’s/knot-our-eyes) insist on schizophrenia where nothing can be not-arised without presenting your willingness to commit fraud by using a legal name that doesn’t belong to you but you think it does. Then the emotions kick in with “but my mummy and daddy gave me that name!!!!” as they stomp their widdle feet screaming like banshees vowing vengeance where the simple truth is all the vengeance you need. You’ll never get burned at the B.A.R. and be Cued again. Remember, evil won’t give up without a fight but it can’t harm you, only bluff you to extremes to try and coerce or trick you back into you being their hollow-wean tree-Te’s. It’s illegal to be a legal anything stops them in their tracks.''
> 
> And there it is. What it is, I'm not sure, but it is there.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 7, 2016)

Is there some kind of knowing L Ron Hubbard character sat behind all this nonsense chuckling to himself and taking the money from fools?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 7, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Is there some kind of knowing L Ron Hubbard character sat behind all this nonsense chuckling to himself and taking the money from fools?



As far as I can tell, it's just the billboard owners that are taking money from fools.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 7, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Parents = Payer Rents



It's a bit Terry Pratchett.

I wonder what they think of insurance.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


>


Oh god, I remember that


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 7, 2016)

People do seem to be having quite a lot of success in getting debts removed with this stuff though

getoutofdebtfree.org • Success Stories Forum


----------



## keybored (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> People do seem to be having quite a lot of success in getting debts removed with this stuff though
> 
> getoutofdebtfree.org • Success Stories Forum


Could you link to specific threads? I skimmed the first five and none of them seemed to be related to "this stuff".


----------



## jusali (Oct 7, 2016)

I like to think I have a pretty open mind on pretty much anything..........but today I feel like I've been in the heads of some truly mad human beings...


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 7, 2016)

keybored said:


> Could you link to specific threads? I skimmed the first five and none of them seemed to be related to "this stuff".


There are a variety of techniques promoted on GOODF, including A4V and promissory notes, it's fairly up there. On this thread from the first page there's "John of the family Lewis" nuking a HMRC alleged debt
getoutofdebtfree.org • HMRC penalties victory!


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> People do seem to be having quite a lot of success in getting debts removed with this stuff though
> 
> getoutofdebtfree.org • Success Stories Forum


I very much doubt that. I'm sure that some fotlers do get let off their debt in court. I'd imagine it happens in one of two scenarios. Either the judge considers the merits of the case and, ignoring the insane witterings of the fotler, decides they shouldn't have to pay that debt, or the judge decides the person is so clearly insane that they'll not be able to pay the debt. This is not the same as their arguments working, but I can see how it would look like that to someone with a poor grasp on reality.


----------



## keybored (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> There are a variety of techniques promoted on GOODF, including A4V and promissory notes, it's fairly up there. On this thread from the first page there's "John of the family Lewis" nuking a HMRC alleged debt
> getoutofdebtfree.org • HMRC penalties victory!


Sorry, but I'm finding it hard to believe HMRC are going to just wipe their noses and write off a debt like that on the evidence supplied by the OP in the thread you linked.

I notice someone else tried the same thing on later in the thread and got this slightly more predictable result...




> The use of a stock letter or notice extracted from a website will not absolve you of your responsibilities as a taxpayer. Your letter contains no valid arguments that prevent you from paying your income tax. Your letter is very similar to others in our possession compiled from well-known websites that promote this kind of correspondence.
> 
> HMRC is not bound by any of the unreasonable conditions you have stipulated, and your letter has not raised any valid legal arguments for not paying your Income Tax as laid down in the Taxes Management Act 1970.
> 
> If you feel I've not dealt with your complaint fully or correctly, you can ask for a different customer service manager to carry out a further review.


----------



## 8den (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> There are a variety of techniques promoted on GOODF, including A4V and promissory notes, it's fairly up there. On this thread from the first page there's "John of the family Lewis" nuking a HMRC alleged debt
> getoutofdebtfree.org • HMRC penalties victory!



Dear Sir,

You are a complete idiot. 

Yours,

Humanity.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> People do seem to be having quite a lot of success in getting debts removed with this stuff though
> 
> getoutofdebtfree.org • Success Stories Forum


No, they don't.


----------



## captainmission (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> There are a variety of techniques promoted on GOODF, including A4V and promissory notes, it's fairly up there. On this thread from the first page there's "John of the family Lewis" nuking a HMRC alleged debt
> getoutofdebtfree.org • HMRC penalties victory!



*HMRC waives tax return penalties 'whenever someone appeals'*
Too costly to investigate reasons for missing self-assessment deadline, staff are told, so £100 fine should be cancelled if an excuse is given

So undefunding of HMRC, not the bloke being a magic wizard with law defying spells.


----------



## newbie (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> There are a variety of techniques promoted on GOODF, including A4V and promissory notes, it's fairly up there. On this thread from the first page there's "John of the family Lewis" nuking a HMRC alleged debt
> getoutofdebtfree.org • HMRC penalties victory!


the 3rd post on that thread is racist dribble.


----------



## keybored (Oct 7, 2016)

captainmission said:


> *HMRC waives tax return penalties 'whenever someone appeals'*
> Too costly to investigate reasons for missing self-assessment deadline, staff are told, so £100 fine should be cancelled if an excuse is given
> 
> So undefunding of HMRC, not the bloke being a magic wizard with law defying spells.


They're obviously not even reading the letters, otherwise they would have tripled that guy's fine for being a daft bastard.


----------



## bimble (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> There are a variety of techniques promoted on GOODF, including A4V and promissory notes, it's fairly up there. On this thread from the first page there's "John of the family Lewis" nuking a HMRC alleged debt
> getoutofdebtfree.org • HMRC penalties victory!


I Love the sign off from that stock letter of theirs.
"I write without ill will vexaciousness or frivolity,
your sincerely,
john of the family lewis. "


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2016)

newbie said:


> the 3rd post on that thread is racist dribble.


you know how it goes, every brand of conspiracy thinking always ends up with 'its the joos' at its base.


----------



## newbie (Oct 7, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> you know how it goes, every brand of conspiracy thinking always ends up with 'its the joos' at its base.


tbh having no interest in conspiracies I only know how that sort of thing goes because I read about it on here and occasionally mistakenly follow links posted by other people.

I'd be grateful if squirrelp could explain why they're linking to a thread in which a clearly racist post is not challenged.  It's unacceptable to post that sort of thing and unacceptable to link to it without, at the very least, posting a warning and breaking the link to avoid racists noting the attention from this site and coming back here.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 7, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> you know how it goes, every brand of conspiracy thinking always ends up with 'its the joos' at its base.



Sometimes the joos have scales...


----------



## bimble (Oct 7, 2016)

Yeah, I was really disappointed when I figured out that for all their charming loonery and beguiling wordplay this lot with their mysterious posters are basically just another bunch of frothing at the mouth ant-joo david icke mentalists. It does kind of take the shine off the whole thing a bit.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 7, 2016)

bimble said:


> Yeah, I was really disappointed when I figured out that for all their charming loonery and beguiling wordplay this lot with their mysterious posters are basically just another bunch of frothing at the mouth *ant-joo* david icke mentalists. It does kind of take the shine off the whole thing a bit.



First they disguise themselves as reptiles, and now they're disguising themselves as insects. Does their deviousness know no bounds?!


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 7, 2016)

keybored said:


> Sorry, but I'm finding it hard to believe HMRC are going to just wipe their noses and write off a debt like that on the evidence supplied by the OP in the thread you linked.
> 
> I notice someone else tried the same thing on later in the thread and got this slightly more predictable result...


Well that's your prerogative, but I think if you were to say that the 1000 success stories on those boards were made up, that's a bit silly.

I've been around the block with this stuff, both sides of it.

It's a bit like recreational drug use. 

The mainstream media will tell you it does nothing but harm.
The main characters promoting it can be quite bizarre people and others are the type that are driven to it through desperation.
There are disaster stories even amongst experienced practitioners.
There is reckless use from people who really have no clue what they are doing.
There are people who take a pill and then think they can fly and are immune from any threat.
There is a lot of stuff that is just junk and no-one should bother with.

But set against that the reason it's been spreading is that people are getting in many cases the results they intended with it. I've seen some first hand.

I've seen guys go totally reckless with it and had to intervene to save them.
I've also faced down a magistrate who was threatening me with imprisonment if I didn't confirm my name and walked free from the courtroom (for that, I did a vast amount of research and do not recommend anyone tries it at home)


----------



## bimble (Oct 7, 2016)

Ah! you're an actual highly skilled practioner of the art. 
Please tell us how you walked free. Did you confirm your name ?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2016)

I met a FoTLer who told me she'd beaten the courts using FoTLer arguments to prevent her partner (I think it was) having to repay a bank loan.

I pressed her and she won because the bank wasn't able to produce a copy of the original signed agreement. Which isn't really a FoTLer principle.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Well that's your prerogative, but I think if you were to say that the 1000 success stories on those boards were made up, that's a bit silly.
> 
> I've been around the block with this stuff, both sides of it.
> 
> ...


Oh just fuck off.


----------



## keybored (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Well that's your prerogative, but I think if you were to say that the 1000 success stories on those boards were made up, that's a bit silly.



I didn't say that. I said I found it hard to believe that single example you posted of "people having a lot of success" of evading debt using this incredible  legal name loophole.

Most of the posts on that board seem to relate to more credible scenarios  (like fucking off DCAs who are chasing statute-barred debts).


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 7, 2016)

bimble said:


> Ah! you're an actual highly skilled practioner of the art.
> Please tell us how you walked free. Did you confirm your name ?


I wouldn't say that at all!

And no, I just kept repeating, "I'm here today _AS _squirrelp...blah blah blah, requesting an adjournment to proceedings...blah" as the magistrate went more and more bonkers.

On the last few times he demanded my name, I had security next to my shoulder ready to whisk me away.

It was a very interesting experience.


----------



## bimble (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I wouldn't say that at all!
> 
> And no, I just kept repeating, "I'm here today _AS _squirrelp...blah blah blah, requesting an adjournment to proceedings...blah" as the magistrate went more and more bonkers.
> 
> It was a very interesting experience.


I see. So your case was adjourned? 
What happened when it resumed, did you do the same cunning ploy?


----------



## ddraig (Oct 7, 2016)

Your own security??


----------



## nastybobby (Oct 7, 2016)

Whenever I see FoTL 'arguments'/reasoning and the like I'm always reminded of this lady.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 7, 2016)

bimble said:


> I see. So your case was adjourned?
> What happened when it resumed, did you do the same cunning ploy?


No. It was a business rates thing. I'd gone in to try to stop them rubber stamping a liability order and my name wasn't on any of the stuff. I didn't succeed.

But I thought I'd see what happens when you deny a magistrate jurisdiction. 

I can tell you, when they ask you to stand up, and you remain sitting down, they go fucking mental. It was fairly calm up to that point. After that he bolted from the court and called security. After he came back in he spent several minutes asking me who I was in various ways ever more forcefully and not accepting, "I'm here today AS squirrelp....".

"WHO ARE YOU? WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN, I'M HERE TODAY AS squirrelp?"

I just held the same line.

The final question was, "Under the Magistrates Act nineteen something something something blah I have the power to hold you in contempt of court. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?"

I had a bemused security guard right behind me.

I can tell you, my heart was beating pretty quickly.

I opened my mouth.

_"I'm here today AS squirrelp, here to humbly request an adjournment...."_


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2016)

truly striking a blow fo FREEEEEEDOOOOM


----------



## captainmission (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I've seen guys go totally reckless with it and had to intervene to save them.
> I've also faced down a magistrate who was threatening me with imprisonment if I didn't confirm my name and walked free from the courtroom (for that, I did a vast amount of research and do not recommend anyone tries it at home)



I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain.



squirrelp said:


> No. It was a business rates thing. I'd gone in to try to stop them rubber stamping a liability order and my name wasn't on any of the stuff. I didn't succeed.
> 
> But I thought I'd see what happens when you deny a magistrate jurisdiction.
> 
> ...



What exactly is this meant to demonstrate? You went to a liability hearing and acted like a tit. And your victory was not being thrown in the cells. Liability hearings are basically admin work that a magistrate has a stack to get through in a day. You didn't outwit them- they just can't be arsed dealing with the paper work that comes holding some preening cunt in contempt.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 7, 2016)

I'm not sure theres  just one bill poster company so possibly lots of companys are getting paid to put up the odd poster and havn't realised theres a complete loon funding this.
  I doubt bill posters have many ethical problems.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 7, 2016)

captainmission said:


> What exactly is this meant to demonstrate? You went to a liability hearing and acted like a tit. And your victory was not being thrown in the cells. Liability hearings are basically admin work that a magistrate has a stack to get through in a day. You didn't outwit them- they just can't be arsed dealing with the paper work that comes holding some preening cunt in contempt.


Maybe. And I'd admit, I thought that I wouldn't be tested too severely for exactly that reason.

but there were many interesting points about it.

The whole thing went EXACTLY as I'd prepared for, in terms of not granting the magistrate jurisdiction. I'd been warned about them going progressively more and more irate demanding my name. I was fully expecting to have security on my shoulder.

If its just a case of 'can't be arsed', why bolt from the courtroom and go bananas shouting questions and threats? These guys are generally ultra-calm.

At the end of it, the magistrate switched from being incredibly aggressive to very politely asking me to leave, which I did. I'd had enough fun by that point.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 7, 2016)

So...again, as captainmission said, you wound up a magistrate and he couldn't be arsed to do anything about it. That's what I'm getting from your story. You can wind up a copper too and half the time he won't bother to do anything about it. The other half he might give you a kicking or throw you in the cell for a night. It's not to be recommended, or not unless you can run very fast. Another magistrate (perhaps less busy) might have held you in contempt. I'd strongly suggest you don't try to do stuff like this in court again, but since you seem set on it, could you film it for us and stick the footage up here when you do? Cheers


----------



## captainmission (Oct 7, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> The whole thing went EXACTLY as I'd prepared for, in terms of not granting the magistrate jurisdiction. I'd been warned about them going progressively more and more irate demanding my name. I was fully expecting to have security on my shoulder.
> 
> If its just a case of 'can't be arsed', why bolt from the courtroom and go bananas shouting questions and threats? These guys are generally ultra-calm.
> 
> At the end of it, the magistrate switched from being incredibly aggressive to very politely asking me to leave, which I did. I'd had enough fun by that point.



But I'm sure going in to any ones work place and declaring it's a boat that you're going to commandeer to sail to twat island will produce similar results. Magistrates can be pompous arseholes at the best of time, it's not suprising they lose their rag when you try and undermine their authority. That they change their tact from issuing threats to politely asking you to leave seem more basic human psychology than evidence of a secret parallel legal system.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 7, 2016)

In fact, the FOTL shit is the opposite of the idea of winding up coppers and magistrates by mimicking the rules that they follow but putting in a slight difference to confuse them (which can certainly work to an extent, though likely never enough to actually get you off anything). FOTLers actually believe that there is an underlying legal secret that they're exploiting - they have "cheat codes" for the law which let them get away with not paying parking fines or whatever it is. It's not satire or civil disobedience, the whole thing is predicated on the idea that they know the _real_ law.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 7, 2016)

likesfish said:


> I'm not sure theres  just one bill poster company so possibly lots of companys are getting paid to put up the odd poster and havn't realised theres a complete loon funding this.
> I doubt bill posters have many ethical problems.



Bill Posters is innocent!


----------



## Idaho (Oct 7, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> So...again, as captainmission said, you wound up a magistrate and he couldn't be arsed to do anything about it. That's what I'm getting from your story. You can wind up a copper too and half the time he won't bother to do anything about it. The other half he might give you a kicking or throw you in the cell for a night. It's not to be recommended, or not unless you can run very fast. Another magistrate (perhaps less busy) might have held you in contempt. I'd strongly suggest you don't try to do stuff like this in court again, but since you seem set on it, could you film it for us and stick the footage up here when you do? Cheers


If the story is true, then fair do's. You could give any rationale to why it worked - from making yourself not worth the effort, to full FOTL craziness - but if it worked... Then it worked! 

In the 17th century you could get away with anything once if you could recite a Bible verse; therefore proving yourself a clergyman and subject only to the ecclesiastical courts - which had helpfully been abolished 300 years earlier. Also you could refuse to plead - which slowed the whole thing down... But then you got crushed with weights until you entered a plea. 

The point being that there are always little grifts and fads regarding law dodging.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 7, 2016)

Although I'm sure that such stalling tactics will count for naught if someone in the courts wishes to make an example of you.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 7, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> _real_


Understrikes!

Quantum grammar.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 8, 2016)

NoXion said:


> Although I'm sure that such stalling tactics will count for naught if someone in the courts wishes to make an example of you.


Most grifts require some balls and luck.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 8, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> The final question was, "Under the Magistrates Act nineteen something something something blah I have the power to hold you in contempt of court. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?"


I would just like to point out the theory I understood behind this question. Posters may be familiar with the phrase, "do you understand?" at the end of the arrest speech the police give you. It's considered a move to obtain jurisdiction. Why do the police say it? Are they going to not arrest you if you say no? I doubt it. Pertinently whatever you say or do to this question is recorded carefully.

The theory I was ascribing to holds that I could have been thrown in jail if I had said, "yes", "no", remained silent, or produced a smart-arsed response such as "I overstand" all of which would have granted jurisdiction to the magistrate.

That's the theory, anyway.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 8, 2016)




----------



## newbie (Oct 8, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Well that's your prerogative, but I think if you were to say that the 1000 success stories on those boards were made up, that's a bit silly.
> 
> I've been around the block with this stuff, both sides of it.
> 
> ...



fify

why didn't you mention that you hang around with racists?


----------



## kabbes (Oct 8, 2016)

You think a magistrate in a court lacks jurisdiction?  Lols.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2016)

Video footage of squirrelp


----------



## likesfish (Oct 8, 2016)

Idaho said:


> If the story is true, then fair do's. You could give any rationale to why it worked - from making yourself not worth the effort, to full FOTL craziness - but if it worked... Then it worked!
> 
> In the 17th century you could get away with anything once if you could recite a Bible verse; therefore proving yourself a clergyman and subject only to the ecclesiastical courts - which had helpfully been abolished 300 years earlier. Also you could refuse to plead - which slowed the whole thing down... But then you got crushed with weights until you entered a plea.
> 
> The point being that there are always little grifts and fads regarding law dodging.




The old military justice system you could always opt for courts Martial if you didnt want the CO's punishment and if it was a minor charge or obviously bullshit the courts martial would remain pending forever.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Oct 8, 2016)

I stand under now, you're an end bell


----------



## bimble (Oct 8, 2016)

newbie said:


> fify
> 
> why didn't you mention that you hang around with racists?


They're not racists silly, they're just people who perceive the deeper hidden connections that the MSM and the CIA and Mossad don't want you to know about. At least Squirrelp had the good grace to acknowledge the other day that maybe the CIA did not in fact invent the term 'conspiracy theorist'.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I would just like to point out the theory I understood behind this question. Posters may be familiar with the phrase, "do you understand?" at the end of the arrest speech the police give you. It's considered a move to obtain jurisdiction. Why do the police say it? Are they going to not arrest you if you say no? I doubt it. Pertinently whatever you say or do to this question is recorded carefully.
> 
> The theory I was ascribing to holds that I could have been thrown in jail if I had said, "yes", "no", remained silent, or produced a smart-arsed response such as "I overstand" all of which would have granted jurisdiction to the magistrate.
> 
> That's the theory, anyway.


It's not a move to obtain jurisdiction. It's to defend against later legal challenge within the system. The jurisdiction already obtains and doesn't need establishing.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2016)

As if there can be individually assented to jurisdiction ffs


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## rubbershoes (Oct 8, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Maybe. And I'd admit, I thought that I wouldn't be tested too severely for exactly that reason.
> 
> but there were many interesting points about it.
> 
> ...



Sorry to come to this thread late , but you sound like a complete tit


----------



## newbie (Oct 8, 2016)

bimble said:


> They're not racists silly, they're just people who perceive the deeper hidden connections that the MSM and the CIA and Mossad don't want you to know about. At least Squirrelp had the good grace to acknowledge the other day that maybe the CIA did not in fact invent the term 'conspiracy theorist'.


nah, they're just people with a nasty, racist, outlook.


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## 8ball (Oct 8, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> So...again, as captainmission said, you wound up a magistrate and he couldn't be arsed to do anything about it.



Seems like pretty poor showing for magistrates to be administering the law differentially based on whether they can be arsed or not.


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## Idaho (Oct 8, 2016)

8ball said:


> Seems like pretty poor showing for magistrates to be administering the law differentially based on whether they can be arsed or not.


Welcome to planet earth.


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## Brainaddict (Oct 8, 2016)

8ball said:


> Seems like pretty poor showing for magistrates to be administering the law differentially based on whether they can be arsed or not.


And if the justice system has a dirty secret it's precisely that: that judgments can and do depend on the beak's mood, whether or not they like you, their class and/or race prejudices. In theory the appeal system should ensure greater consistency, but some of the prejudices are likely to extend throughout the system and if you're not rich then you may not be able to appeal, so there's presumably more consistency in decisions for the rich.

This is all stuff that has to some extent been studied and the mechanisms of it can be explained. I'm very curious to know how squirrelp thinks his secret version of law works. The law of England and Wales is laid out in textbooks which anyone can buy/steal/borrow if they have the mind to. So is there a day in judges' training when the lecturer says: "Right folks, shut up your textbooks. This bit of the law isn't in there. Here's the secret law that only the select few can know." What are the chances this is happening and none of those trainee judges/magistrates get indignant and blow the whistle? Seriously, I'd like to know how you think this works squirrelp.

As for the perception the fotl stuff works, a lot of people think drinking orange juice can help get rid of a cold. The evidence says this isn't true, but sometimes people will drink orange juice and their cold will get better. Because it was about to get better anyway. But that doesn't mean drinking orange juice gets rid of the cold. People's perceptions are often mistaken.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2016)

confirmation bias^


----------



## NoXion (Oct 8, 2016)

Well in the case of drinking orange juice "curing" colds that would be because of regression to the mean, but yeah the perception that fotler nonsense has any traction at all would be down to confirmation bias.


----------



## bimble (Oct 8, 2016)

placebo effect. But orange juice salesmen pretty harmless compared to this lot.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2016)

Just saw one of these loonboards in Southampton.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 9, 2016)

Spotted a second one in Reading, less of a prime spot than the town centre one, being outside Tilehurst station, at the quiet end of Oxford Road, and partially obscured by trees unless you're looking from the right place on the road. So their funding must be somewhat limited/drying up, or they'd have plumped for one of the primer spots on the same road, a lot closer to town, like Reading West station or something. Utterly manical behaviour, though. I just cannot fathom how someone with this much money to burn can have got so wealthy in the first place - has to be inherited or something. Being so detached from reality as to not only believe FOTL nonsense but also to spunk many many grands on such a fruitless ad campaign (who's true effectiveness can surely not be measured in any meaningful sense) is not conducive to being a bread winner, in my experience.

squirrelp - you sir are an idiot. You have not actually explained the outcome of the court case. They threatened to hold you in contempt, there was a security guy there, then....what? Did they adjourn? What happened at the next hearing? You need to explain things fully as your account lacks credibility. These things don't just go away, generally. I've worked as a court officer for a drug treatment service, and have observed how magistrates courts function close up for nearly two years. The most likely way to get off a charge is for someone to fuck up the admin and literally forget to book your case for the next hearing, or the police/cps to balls up the investigation/pre-trial work, or a witness not showing. They will never let FOTL arguments win, on general principle. Why would they relinquish their authority like that? Authority, btw, which is backed up by police and prisons, more than any real or imagined legal technicality.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> squirrelp - you sir are an idiot. You have not actually explained the outcome of the court case. They threatened to hold you in contempt, there was a security guy there, then....what? Did they adjourn? What happened at the next hearing? You need to explain things fully as your account lacks credibility.


I think I explained it in fair detail. What do you find not believable about it?


----------



## existentialist (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I think I explained it in fair detail. What do you find not believable about it?


I can't speak for jon-of-arc, but speaking for myself, I'd say "everything".


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

existentialist said:


> I can't speak for jon-of-arc, but speaking for myself, I'd say "everything".


Do you want to explain further? I have at least one poster saying there is nothing remarkable about my account all, and now one saying it is totally incredible.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Do you want to explain further? I have at least one poster saying there is nothing remarkable about it all, and now one saying it is all totally incredible.


I'll put it another way.

Everything about the way you've reported the situation you described stinks to me of a _very_ selectively drip-fed narrative. You started out trying to imply that you'd gamed the system with your fotlery, and slowly retrenched to a position where you admitted to little more than being bloody-mindedly provocative towards the magistrate, but with no particularly significant outcome.

What is truly incredible is that anyone would be foolhardly enough to go in for such tactics, whether as part of a sound legal strategy, as you appeared to be implying at the start of your tale, or for mere shits'n'giggles as you seemed to be dismissing it as by the end.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I think I explained it in fair detail. What do you find not believable about it?




You've not stated the outcome.  You've said your strategy was effective, so what was the effect?  

existentialist said it much better, though.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

So, neither of you are actually questioning the credibility of my account.



Jon-of-arc said:


> You've not stated the outcome.  You've said your strategy was effective, so what was the effect?



I'm not sure what quote you are referring to when you say "You've said your strategy was effective". I said I'd been around the block with stuff and one of those things included facing down a magistrate who was threatening me with imprisonment.

As existentialist notes, that's not something you do every day, I do consider it a little out of the ordinary.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> So, neither of you are actually questioning the credibility of my account.


What happened? What happened to the charge? I thought you'd be all over publicising it?


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Do you want to explain further? I have at least one poster saying there is nothing remarkable about my account all, and now one saying it is totally incredible.



Not "incredible", but lacking credibility.  I've seen FOTL videos of people in court trying these tactics.  It causes confusion and annoyance to the magistrates and professionals, but there is nothing "incredible", in the sense of being remarkable or improbable, about what follows.  You lack credibility because you fail to say what happened.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 9, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> You lack credibility because you fail to say what happened.


That's how all FOTL shite concludes. Can't imagine why.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> So, neither of you are actually questioning the credibility of my account.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Was it like when you go into a shop but they've just closed, and a member of staff says "sorry we're closed now" and instead of going "oh, ok" and walking away, you say "closed? but it's only 17:29, you don't close until 17:30" and an exchange of words carries on for a while until you walk away. Because that what it sounds like.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> So, neither of you are actually questioning the credibility of my account.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what quote you are referring to when you say "You've said your strategy was effective". I said I'd been around the block with stuff and one of those things included facing down a magistrate who was threatening me with imprisonment, and walked free from the courtroom.



So you got an adjournment by being a dick and causing loads of confusion?  And what happened at the follow up hearing?  Did you continue to not acknowledge your own name?  Let us know how that went.  That's what matters here.  

I once got pulled over by the filth on the way to a midnight scoring mission, and had all sorts of paraphernalia on me (pins, pipe, citric, etc) but nothing illegal.  One of the coppers tried it on by demanding that I reveal information about my dealers, and I responded with the question "what happens if I don't tell you anything?"

"We make it open season on you..." he replied, quick as a flash.  Although I have a drug problem, though, I work for my money, so this was essentially a hollow threat.  

"What's your collar number, mate?" I replied.  A risky and somewhat antagonistic response.  

"I don't think there's any need for that.  You be on your way, and don't let us catch you coming back", the other officer said, clearly aware that his partner was stepping over some boundaries that could get them both into some kind of shit.

Did I game the system?   Did I do something incredible?  No.  I gambled that he was chancing it.  The stakes?  An inconveniently timed strip search at the station, possible raids on my house, and getting pulled over every time a cop car passed me... Or everyone walks away and nothing more was said about it.  It doesn't mean I have the cheat codes to the legal system, though.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

kabbes said:


> You think a magistrate in a court lacks jurisdiction?  Lols.


It is not the case that a magistrate in a court of law has jurisdiction over everyone in the country.

In another matter, I had a claim against a limited company and a personal claim against the director of that company, who was not present and had simply returned the mail the court had sent. While he later awarded the claim against the limited company, the judge threw out the personal claim, stating one of the reasons as "we do not have jurisdiction". They take it seriously.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 9, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Not "incredible", but lacking credibility.  I've seen FOTL videos of people in court trying these tactics.  It causes confusion and annoyance to the magistrates and professionals, but there is nothing "incredible", in the sense of being remarkable or improbable, about what follows.  You lack credibility because you fail to say what happened.


And the endless squirming and hair-splitting - itself rather too reminiscent of in-court fotlery - just cements the impression of it all as no more than particularly naively incompetent barrack-room lawyering.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Not "incredible", but lacking credibility.


Incredible can mean the opposite of credible. I think I explained pretty much what happened in post #391


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> It is not the case that a magistrate in a court of law has jurisdiction over everyone in the country.
> 
> In another matter, I had a claim against a limited company and a personal claim against the director of that company, who was not present and had simply returned the mail the court had sent. While he later awarded the claim against the limited company, the judge threw out the personal claim, stating one of the reasons as "we do not have jurisdiction". They take it seriously.



Don't think so. Directors of limited companies aren't personal liable - that's what limited means - limited liability.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Don't think so. Directors of limited companies aren't personal liable - that's what limited means - limited liability.


That's precisely why I had the director named on the suit separately. You can claim against multiple parties on the same case. Of course, I wanted the personal claim to stick so the debt wouldn't go if the company went down.


----------



## bimble (Oct 9, 2016)

Squirrelp told the tale of his day in court with such drama that it was perhaps easy to miss an important aspect of the story.  (my bold)


squirrelp said:


> It was a business rates thing. I'd gone in to try to stop them rubber stamping a liability order and my name wasn't on any of the stuff. *I didn't succeed.*


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> That's precisely why I had the director named on the suit separately. You can claim against multiple parties on the same case. Of course, I wanted the personal claim to stick so the debt wouldn't go if the company went down.



So you basically respect the jurisdiction of the court service when it suits you, but don't when it doesn't?  

Kinda fits in with the whole individualistic assessment of FOTL beliefs and practices.  There's very little ideology to it - just a bunch of desperate people who think that the rules don't apply to them, only to others.


----------



## keybored (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> That's precisely why I had the director named on the suit separately. You can claim against multiple parties on the same case. Of course, I wanted the personal claim to stick so the debt wouldn't go if the company went down.


So who owed you the money; the company or the director (personally)?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> That's precisely why I had the director named on the suit separately. You can claim against multiple parties on the same case. Of course, I wanted the personal claim to stick so the debt wouldn't go if the company went down.



But that's why the court had no jurisdiction. As keybored said, unless he owed it to you personally there's no claim against him.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

two sheds said:


> But that's why the court had no jurisdiction. As keybored said, unless he owed it to you personally there's no claim against him.


Whether the court had jurisdiction, and whether my claim against the director personally had merit or not, are not quite the same thing.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Whether the court had jurisdiction, and whether my claim against the director personally had merit or not, are not quite the same thing.



Why did you think you had a claim against him/her?


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Why did you think you had a claim against him/her?


Respectfully, I don't wish to go into that. The point is not whether my claim had merit or not. The point is, jurisdiction is not something that automatically exists. And I don't think I granted it in the earlier story.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2016)

No, if I take out a case against my dog for shitting on my carpet a magistrate might well say that the court has no jurisdiction and also that the case has no merit.

If the law states that your case is actually against the company then a magistrate won't be able to admit a case against the director.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 9, 2016)

I don't see the contradiction. A case might be said to have no merit if a court has no jurisdiction; but it does not have merit simply because a court has jurisdiction. They are not the same thing.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 9, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> It is not the case that a magistrate in a court of law has jurisdiction over everyone in the country.
> 
> In another matter, I had a claim against a limited company and a personal claim against the director of that company, who was not present and had simply returned the mail the court had sent. While he later awarded the claim against the limited company, the judge threw out the personal claim, stating one of the reasons as "we do not have jurisdiction". They take it seriously.




You clearly know fuck all about jurisdiction


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 9, 2016)

bimble said:


> Squirrelp told the tale of his day in court with such drama that it was perhaps easy to miss an important aspect of the story.  (my bold)



Interesting.  I did kinda miss that.  But I'm still unclear about what happened when he ignored the judge's request for his name/to stand.  Did the case go on the day? Or another day?



squirrelp said:


> I don't see the contradiction. A case might be said to have no merit if a court has no jurisdiction; but it does not have merit simply because a court has jurisdiction. They are not the same thing.



I won't claim to know all the legal ins and outs, but wouldn't all this sort of stuff be tried at a civil court or a small claims court or something? Isn't magistrates usually reserved for low level criminal cases and a few government/local government stuff like council tax and tv licence fee stuff?

I'm pretty sure, though, that any magistrates court presented with your identity for a criminal case (or council tax case etc) has the jurisdiction to require you to attend, regardless of the merits of the case, and issue a warrant for your arrest should you fail to turn up. I've seen it happen. It will be expected that you find your way from Jon o Groats to lands end, if the cops have charged you with an offence in Cornwall and you live in Scotland, at your own cost. Bail can be denied if you fail to attend, resulting in time spent on remand - effectively a prison sentence - or you can even be tried in your absence if you proper lam it.

I've no idea how it works in county court/civil court etc, but I imagine there's an expectation that you show up if you're named as a defendant in a trial, before the relative merits of the case and the issue of jurisdiction can even be considered.

Of course, you could always try posting your birth certificate if this ever happens. Let us know how that works out, yeah?


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 9, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> I've no idea how it works in county court/civil court etc, but I imagine there's an expectation that you show up if you're named as a defendant in a trial, before the relative merits of the case and the issue of jurisdiction can even be considered.



Nope.  If you don't turn up, the case proceeds without you and you don't have a chance to have your say. 

 Chances are that you'll lose


----------



## emanymton (Oct 9, 2016)

rubbershoes said:


> You clearly know fuck all about jurisdiction


Fixed it for you.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 9, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Fixed it for you.


Harsh.

But not unfair


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 10, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Interesting.  I did kinda miss that.  But I'm still unclear about what happened when he ignored the judge's request for his name/to stand.  Did the case go on the day? Or another day?


I guess they just proceeded as expected once I'd gone. tbh, I'm thinking I lost my nerve now. Having dealt with the guy in scary mode, I might have then pressed my request for an adjournment. But I didn't quite know how to deal with his last statement which was something like "I am not satisfied with your standing before this court. Would you please leave". They had no formal paperwork associating my name as having anything to do with the case, and I hadn't brought any.



> I'm pretty sure, though, that any magistrates court presented with your identity for a criminal case (or council tax case etc) has the jurisdiction to require you to attend, regardless of the merits of the case, and issue a warrant for your arrest should you fail to turn up. I've seen it happen. It will be expected that you find your way from Jon o Groats to lands end, if the cops have charged you with an offence in Cornwall and you live in Scotland, at your own cost. Bail can be denied if you fail to attend, resulting in time spent on remand - effectively a prison sentence - or you can even be tried in your absence if you proper lam it.
> 
> I've no idea how it works in county court/civil court etc, but I imagine there's an expectation that you show up if you're named as a defendant in a trial, before the relative merits of the case and the issue of jurisdiction can even be considered.
> 
> Of course, you could always try posting your birth certificate if this ever happens. Let us know how that works out, yeah?


Sure. I wouldn't send in my birth certificate though, I'd show up and play the same game. But yes my understanding is that the name and the actual physical / spiritual entity are not the same thing. Jurisdiction over the latter is what we unwittingly concede. Am I squirrelp? Are you Jon-of-arc? Or are these names accounts which are ultimately the property of another and through which we are permitted to act?


----------



## Whagwan (Oct 10, 2016)

Surely you are SKWI-ELL of the family P


----------



## kabbes (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I guess they just proceeded as expected once I'd gone. tbh, I'm thinking I lost my nerve now. Having dealt with the guy in scary mode, I might have then pressed my request for an adjournment. But I didn't quite know how to deal with his last statement which was something like "I am not satisfied with your standing before this court. Would you please leave". They had no formal paperwork associating my name as having anything to do with the case, and I hadn't brought any.
> 
> Sure. I wouldn't send in my birth certificate though, I'd show up and play the same game. But yes my understanding is that the name and the actual physical / spiritual entity are not the same thing. Jurisdiction over the latter is what we unwittingly concede. Am I squirrelp? Are you Jon-of-arc? Or are these names accounts which are ultimately the property of another and through which we are permitted to act?


Your understanding is almost 100% wrong.  There is no such thing even as your official name.  There is no register of names anywhere.  Your name is whatever you can show you are known as.  The entity committing an offence is you, the individual.  The court merely has to be satisfied that the individual present is actually the individual being charged.  Name and address is simply a useful way of doing this, but it is not the only possible way.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Your understanding is almost 100% wrong.  There is no such thing even as your official name.  There is no register of names anywhere.  Your name is whatever you can show you are known as.  The entity committing an offence is you, the individual.  The court merely has to be satisfied that the individual present is actually the individual being charged.  Name and address is simply a useful way of doing this, but it is not the only possible way.


you say that but I succesfully spent 3 days locked up bullshitting that my name was Alan Parr based on a fraudelent library card from a library in a county I don't live in. Victory was mine! I thought to myself while relacing my boots on the steps of the station after getting rumbled by the simple expedient of looking up 'mum' in my phone and ringing her for an emailed photo confirmation that I was not in fact Alan Parr. If only I had shouted 'splice the mainbrace!' then they would never have got me. 3 days without a fucking smoke. I can be so perverse to myself


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> But I didn't quite know how to deal with his last statement which was something like "I am not satisfied with your standing before this court. Would you please leave".


----------



## captainmission (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I guess they just proceeded as expected once I'd gone. tbh, I'm thinking I lost my nerve now. Having dealt with the guy in scary mode, I might have then pressed my request for an adjournment. But I didn't quite know how to deal with his last statement which was something like "I am not satisfied with your standing before this court. Would you please leave". They had no formal paperwork associating my name as having anything to do with the case, and I hadn't brought any.
> 
> Sure. I wouldn't send in my birth certificate though, I'd show up and play the same game. But yes my understanding is that the name and the actual physical / spiritual entity are not the same thing. Jurisdiction over the latter is what we unwittingly concede. Am I squirrelp? Are you Jon-of-arc? Or are these names accounts which are ultimately the property of another and through which we are permitted to act?



You don't actually need to be a level 10 legal wizard to unlock skill 'ask for adjournment'. You just ask for an adjournment and show reasonable grounds why you should get one. Liability hearings don't actually deal with most disputes over council tax or business rates- that's dealt with by a valuation tribunal. So as long as you can show some merit to your disputed liability it's not that hard to get an adjournment. 

However since your legal knowledge is based on a literalist reading of rumplestiltskin I doubt your reason for not wanting to pay tax has much chance of being successful.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 10, 2016)

Saw my first one. Buxton of all places. This is serious expense campaign for a nut job.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 10, 2016)

kabbes said:


> There is no register of names anywhere.


?????
I'm wondering how I obtained a certified copy of an entry in a birth register then.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> ?????
> I'm wondering how I obtained a certified copy of an entry in a birth register then.


There is no such thing as a legal name under English law. Or alternatively, any name you use is a legal name.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There is no such thing as a legal name under English law.



That's lucky, because:


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> ?????
> I'm wondering how I obtained a certified copy of an entry in a birth register then.


Either from the general register office or the registrars in the borough where the birth was registered.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 10, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> So you basically respect the jurisdiction of the court service when it suits you, but don't when it doesn't?


That's kind of the idea. If I'm attacked, I'll call the police. If the police are trying to prosecute me for growing marijuana (say), or some other corporate-serving statute, I might very well not cooperate. And in general, if I am in court, I'll be fighting my own corner and not that of the other party. There's not anything remarkable about that. There are laws which I think are great (particularly all the common law principles) but that doesn't mean I think all the laws are great, and I think an attitude of "you must respect the law 100%" as a black-and-white system of morality is rather immature.

We can either exist as children through adult life, or develop our own system of morality. Make it a good one. I would say where a law is morally unjust, it is morally justified and perhaps necessary to break it.

If you ever 'break' laws, you are disrespecting the jurisdiction of whoever made them. Are you going to do so sneakily and consider the challenge not to be caught, or do so proudly?



> Kinda fits in with the whole individualistic assessment of FOTL beliefs and practices.  There's very little ideology to it - just a bunch of desperate people who think that the rules don't apply to them, only to others.


Which rules, the good ones or the bad ones?

It's far easier to play in the matrix than look to defeat it.

Here's a guardian article written by Jon Witterick, creator of the getoutofdebtfree.org site I linked to earlier. If you met him, I think you'd find him a totally normal guy.


----------



## newbie (Oct 10, 2016)

is he a racist too?


----------



## bimble (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp, is this really the same name you used in court ? 
Did you actually say I am here as Squirrelp? I'm just curious. 
Or did you say your name was Squirrel of the family Elp or something.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> That's kind of the idea. If I'm attacked, I'll call the police. If the police are trying to prosecute me for growing marijuana (say), or some other corporate-serving statute, I might very well not cooperate. And in general, if I am in court, I'll be fighting my own corner and not that of the other party. There's not anything remarkable about that. There are laws which I think are great (particularly all the common law principles) but that doesn't mean I think all the laws are great, and I think an attitude of "you must respect the law 100%" as a black-and-white system of morality is rather immature.
> 
> We can either exist as children through adult life, or develop our own system of morality. Make it a good one. I would say where a law is morally unjust, it is morally justified and perhaps necessary to break it.
> 
> ...



There's laws I don't buy into, by breaking them.  I don't not buy into them by expecting they don't apply to me.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> There's laws I don't buy into, by breaking them.  I don't not buy into them by expecting they don't apply to me.



That's not 'not buying in'.  It's just using the power dynamic to get a different pay-off.


----------



## mojo pixy (Oct 10, 2016)

THE TRUTH

IN CAPITAL FUCKING LETTERS

BE IMPRESSED


----------



## mojo pixy (Oct 10, 2016)

the more I see these hanging in the street, the more I wanna destroy, passerby


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Here's a guardian article written by Jon Witterick, creator of the getoutofdebtfree.org site I linked to earlier. If you met him, I think you'd find him a totally normal guy.



It's an interesting article, but mostly in terms of the way it underlines a general collapse of any kind of social contract.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 10, 2016)

8ball said:


> That's not 'not buying in'.  It's just using the power dynamic to get a different pay-off.



Not sure I follow what you mean. Not helped by my own appalling grammar in the post your responding to, but which part is using a different power dynamic? Breaking the law (which I do do), or expecting it to only be applied selectively to myself (which I don't do)?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 10, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Breaking the law (which I do do), or expecting it to only be applied selectively to myself (which I don't do)?



The latter is irrational, but the former isn't 'not buying in'.  It's just choosing the opposite side of the bargain being offered - that of either evading or accepting the consequences.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 10, 2016)

Jon-of-arc said:


> There's laws I don't buy into, by breaking them.  I don't not buy into them by expecting they don't apply to me.


Where you think a rule applies to you what on earth are you doing breaking it?


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Where you think a rule applies to you what on earth are you doing breaking it?



Hoping I don't get caught.


----------



## bimble (Oct 10, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Where you think a rule applies to you what on earth are you doing breaking it?


No rules apply to me cos I'm special, yeah.
Is pretending your name is actually Squirrelp whilst in court for a tax problem or parking ticket the new teenaged rebellion?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 11, 2016)

<looks forward to the coming pages where Urbanites defend debt collectors>


----------



## paolo (Oct 11, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Just for giggles some mainstream corporate drinks company or bank or someone like that needs to do an advert in very similar style, in such a way that it makes it look like the original billboards were just a teaser for their campaign and nothing else ("The Truth - Diet Coke is tasty"). Imagine the apoplexy of the fotlers.



Clever


----------



## paolo (Oct 11, 2016)

Have we already speculated about who this is?

I'll go with Noel Edmunds. He's probably still got just enough telly money stashed, and is going bonkers.


----------



## A380 (Oct 11, 2016)

I am not the name Mr Blobby and I claim maritime law.



paolo said:


> Have we already speculated about who this is?
> 
> I'll go with Noel Edmunds. He's probably still got just enough telly money stashed, and is going bonkers.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 11, 2016)

8ball said:


> <looks forward to the coming pages where Urbanites defend debt collectors>



Debt collectors are just doing their jobs. That's what _makes_ them scum.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 11, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> ?????
> I'm wondering how I obtained a certified copy of an entry in a birth register then.


There are registers of births and deaths but not names.  You can change your name at any time just by asking people to call you something different.  There is no need to register the change.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2016)

kabbes said:


> There are registers of births and deaths but not names.  You can change your name at any time just by asking people to call you something different.  There is no need to register the change.


apply for a passport though and they want either the old one or a short form birth certificate. I was asked what name I wanted on my passport as my use name conflicts with the name on the BC.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 11, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> apply for a passport though and they want either the old one or a short form birth certificate. I was asked what name I wanted on my passport as my use name conflicts with the name on the BC.


If you can show a history of using a different name and/or a reason for the change (eg a separation), they are happy to give you whatever name you have established.

Individual issuers of ID can do what they please, though -- still doesn't mean there is any "official" version of your name.  Just a name which that issuer is willing to endorse as something you are known by.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 11, 2016)

Is this a new style or have I missed this type posted earlier?
(Hyde rd, manchester in case anyone is interested)


----------



## two sheds (Oct 11, 2016)

That's different - it's not all in capitals  SPLITTERS


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 11, 2016)

Seen someone claiming this is something to do with the KLF, but I'm skeptical. 

Aren't they supposed to reappear sometime soon after a deliberate 21 or 25 year hiatus?


----------



## keybored (Oct 11, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Here's a guardian article written by Jon Witterick, creator of the getoutofdebtfree.org site I linked to earlier.


Here's a follow-up article for balance.



> Witterick was given space in Comment is free this week as part of the Occupy takeover. He used that platform to promote the supposed debt avoidance service that his site offers. Witterick uses a few freeman-on-the-land tropes to support his claims, including the Bills of Exchange Act and fractional reserve banking. As I've explained in detail elsewhere, his statements about the law are utterly wrong.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Seen someone claiming this is something to do with the KLF, but I'm skeptical.
> 
> Aren't they supposed to reappear sometime soon after a deliberate 21 or 25 year hiatus?


I do hope so. Now more than ever do we need more KLF


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 12, 2016)

keybored said:


> Here's a follow-up article for balance.


I think this guy makes some possibly fair points but is wrong on a few points.

Firstly, he really cannot say with confidence that the successes on the 'getoutofdebtfree' forums are not due to the defences employed and are simply cases that would have been dropped anyway. Or if he is, his confidence is misplaced. I've seen these things myself first hand, and really you know your letters are working when you get back replies saying that "no further action is being taken" etc. And these are the letters that the GOODF forum guys are getting. I've seen a couple of these myself.

My experience of debt collection operations is that they do not send out letters saying they are dropping the matter unprovoked. They'll happily send letters for years. And if they get hold of you they'll just become more persistent.

two sheds quotes a case where the plaintiff couldn't prove the debt existed - this is a classic freeman strategy, forcing the plaintiff to prove the debt, you won't really find it recommended on mainstream advice pages. I've seen a bailliff's bill for hundreds of pounds vanish on sending of a statutory declaration declaring no knowledge of the debt, as recommended by one of the leading UK freemen guys (theory is the statutory declaration stands as truth, and if you sign with your unlimited commercial liability, they have to match it to rebut it and they will never do that working for the limited company - I don't fully understand it in all honestly but it certainly worked just as predicted).

in his article he comments:


> *“I also realised how debt collectors trick us into contracts with them, by asking us how much we could pay. When you agree to one pound a month, which costs more to administrate, they now have a contract with you, where none existed.”*
> 
> So, to recap: either the debt collector is acting as agent for the original creditor, or the rights of the original creditor have been assigned to them. Either way, the relevant contract is the credit agreement under which you originally borrowed the money.
> 
> ...


I think Witterick is basically right on this one. If the debt collector cannot prove the debt originally existed, and a valid chain of assignment, then their only hope of proving the debt is to get you to agree to all that. If you agree that you owe them them the money, then that's you agreeing that the debt originally existed and you are happy with the legality of the claimed assignment).

If he thinks that these guys can always prove the original debt and valid chain of assignment, in the face of well-crafted paperwork, he's just wrong - I've seen them drop myself (bailliff giving up after sending one 'stat dec' (statutory declaration) and I dare say there are many examples of such backing down or losing in court on the goodf forums.



> *“[Mary Elizabeth Croft] explained that fractional reserve banking is basically fraud, as the banks do not have the money they lend us.”*
> 
> Well, yes, fractional reserve banking is odd when you try to concentrate on it. And yes, to an extent the system relies on confidence and people not thinking about it too hard.
> 
> But fraud? No, because it is not deception with a view to making a wrongful profit. And because it is expressly recognised as lawful behaviour. And… oh, what’s the point?


I think it is absolutely fair to say that fractional reserve banking is fraud in the colloquial sense.

_"And yes, to an extent the system relies on confidence..."_ That's because the whole thing is a shell-game, which relies on the rug not being pulled, much like a ponzi scheme, only the fractional reserve ponzi scheme resets when it crashes with the banks claiming the securities, and then starting the thing over again. Any sensible system of money would not rely on confidence - the wealth is simply there, and the money is properly backed so its value is not going to vanish.

If passengers in a plane suddenly started worrying about its mechanical soundness, does that make the plane fall out of the sky? Of course not. But with economics we have this insanity to the point where lies become necessary to maintain 'confidence' to prevent bank runs. It is absolutely crazy!

_"... and people not thinking about it too hard." _
The banks like it like that.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 12, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> two sheds quotes a case where the plaintiff couldn't prove the debt existed - this is a classic freeman strategy, forcing the plaintiff to prove the debt, you won't really find it recommended on mainstream advice pages.



This is not a fotl strategy (they might use it but it doesn't involve any legal nonsense babble talk, it's a standard legal move, not a fotl one) and it's absolutely recommended on mainstream advice pages eg the cab Avoiding bailiff action - Citizens Advice
The section are you responsible for the debt? directs you to get them to prove you owe this debt.


----------



## Whagwan (Oct 12, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble
> 
> dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble dribble
> 
> ...



Is what I've just read.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 12, 2016)

You've got to laugh at the idea that asking them to prove a debt exists is some sort of clever magic that 'they' don't want you to know about. 

How's it going to work otherwise? 

'You owe me a million quid. But I'm not saying why.' 

'OK, well, you owe me two million.'


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 12, 2016)

Back up in Canton, Cardiff...


----------



## ddraig (Oct 12, 2016)

ooh,  where to?


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 12, 2016)

JC Decaux must be making a fortune out of someone.


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 12, 2016)

ddraig said:


> ooh,  where to?


 Roundabout of Broad St, Sanatorium Road and Grosvenor St.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 12, 2016)

bluescreen said:


> JC Decaux must be making a fortune out of someone.


I think you mean some, of the family one. 

Thumbs. 

Good luck to them in getting paid (!)


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 12, 2016)

BigTom said:


> This is not a fotl strategy (they might use it but it doesn't involve any legal nonsense babble talk, it's a standard legal move, not a fotl one) and it's absolutely recommended on mainstream advice pages eg the cab Avoiding bailiff action - Citizens Advice
> The section are you responsible for the debt? directs you to get them to prove you owe this debt.


Fair point, but the freemen are taking it much further. The conventional approach, dispute the debt if you think it is incorrect. The freeman approach - whether there is a debt depends on whether they can prove it.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 12, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Fair point, but the freemen are taking it much further. The conventional approach, dispute the debt if you think it is incorrect. The freeman approach - whether there is a debt depends on whether they can prove it.



Sure, something like the CAB is never going to openly advise people how to get out of a debt they say they do owe but I certainly knew to advise friends getting bailiff letters to challenge the debt in that way long before fotl stuff came into my horizon and I can only think I learnt that from my mum who was a CAB debt advisor when I was a younger, idk though may have been from political stuff. Mixing in actual real stuff is a good way to pull people into believing the fotl things actually work though. Whenever there's been a "fotl" success I've heard of it always turned out they'd actually used a standard legal move.


----------



## AverageJoe (Oct 25, 2016)

Item about this on The Wright Stuff now


----------



## comrade spurski (Oct 26, 2016)

There's one on Plumstead Bridge by the bus stops opposite Plumstead Train Station...has been up for months ...Dumbass that I am, I thought it was an advert for a tv reality show


----------



## craigxcraig (Oct 26, 2016)

Re the CAB - I received a baliffs letter and spoke with CAB who told me what to write back and under what statute  (I think?) But also adding  'without prejudice' never heard owt back. 

Would advise anyone to go there in the first instance rather than this blx.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 28, 2016)

AverageJoe said:


> Item about this on The Wright Stuff now



Anything interesting?


----------



## 8den (Oct 28, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> Fair point, but the freemen are taking it much further. The conventional approach, dispute the debt if you think it is incorrect. The freeman approach - whether there is a debt depends on whether they can prove it.



I'd only known squirrelp from the Trump thread, but him being a FOL fits.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 28, 2016)

8den said:


> I'd only known squirrelp from the Trump thread, but him being a FOL fits.


nailed on man, we even had the 'paris shootings were a false flag' and utoya massacre also false flag


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> I think this guy makes some possibly fair points but is wrong on a few points.
> 
> Firstly, he really cannot say with confidence that the successes on the 'getoutofdebtfree' forums are not due to the defences employed and are simply cases that would have been dropped anyway. Or if he is, his confidence is misplaced. I've seen these things myself first hand, and really you know your letters are working when you get back replies saying that "no further action is being taken" etc. And these are the letters that the GOODF forum guys are getting. I've seen a couple of these myself.
> 
> ...


i look forward to the day when


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 28, 2016)

Another in Cardiff behind the traders in the NCP car park that backs on the the CIA, not calling it by the new name, fuck em.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2016)

They could at least have made the adverts more entertaining. Some pictures and stuff.


----------



## squirrelp (Oct 29, 2016)

tbh, I haven't dabbled with any freeman stuff in ages. This thread has made me do a bit of googling. 

One of the big guys is having the book thrown at him - Winston Shrout


----------



## Combustible (Oct 29, 2016)

I thought the whole point is that they can't throw the book at you.


----------



## JimW (Oct 29, 2016)

Or if they do you can tack hard into the wind, wheel her about and sail off into the sunset.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 29, 2016)

squirrelp said:


> One of the big guys is having the book thrown at him - Winston Shrout



In the District of Oregon I see, which is a district of District of Columbia, since the term “United States” means District of Columbia.

WINSTON SHROUT 2016 INDICTMENT


----------



## stuff_it (Oct 31, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> HMRC should do it for collection of taxes.


It's not entirely dissimilar to that TV licence campaign with the postcodes. 

"6 households in NG5 have stopped using their LEGAL NAME"

...then 8, etc.

They could do beer mats!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 19, 2016)

German stylee.



> *The “Reichsbürger” maintain the Federal Republic is a Jewish-controlled conspiracy*


----------



## bluescreen (Nov 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> German stylee.
> ​


Dear god. How is this anything other than delusion?​


----------



## Red Sky (Nov 20, 2016)

Has this already been posted? http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html  A Canadian judge's demolition of the Freeman position.


----------



## LDC (Mar 27, 2017)

This really made me laugh...


----------



## phillm (Apr 6, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Another in Cardiff behind the traders in the NCP car park that backs on the the CIA, not calling it by the new name, fuck em.



But these names are not real they are just made up.


----------



## Whagwan (May 15, 2017)

The danger of FOTLers...

They hate the US government, and they're multiplying: the terrifying rise of 'sovereign citizens'


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 15, 2017)

Whagwan said:


> The danger of FOTLers...
> 
> They hate the US government, and they're multiplying: the terrifying rise of 'sovereign citizens'



To be fair, while they might be a bunch of dangerous headbangers, backing up your sovereign citizenship with a heavy arsenal at least shows a better grasp of how power works than the 'magic word' approach.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2017)

Sovereign Citizens this time:

Brighton Woman Pleads Guilty In Plot To Kidnap Judge & Sheriff


----------



## 8den (Sep 2, 2017)

Germany fears radicalisation of Reichsbürger movement after police attacks

Not sure it's a pearoast but Germany has it's own Freeman "reichsburgers"

Reichsbürgerbewegung - Wikipedia


----------



## NoXion (Sep 3, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Sovereign Citizens this time:
> 
> Brighton Woman Pleads Guilty In Plot To Kidnap Judge & Sheriff


I thought kidnapping would be more of a Hove style of thing.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jan 14, 2018)

I see we have some new Biffer/FOTL  types called the White Pendragons

Sadiq Khan speech disrupted by Brexit and Trump supporters


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Jan 15, 2018)

NoXion said:


> I thought kidnapping would be more of a Hove style of thing.


When I first heard Oxford Town by Bob Dylan I was quite suprised. I didn’t think Oxford was that bad.


----------



## Lurdan (Jan 15, 2018)

gawkrodger said:


> I see we have some new Biffer/FOTL  types called the White Pendragons
> 
> Sadiq Khan speech disrupted by Brexit and Trump supporters



Interesting post about this lot at Richard Bartholomew's blog. 

Some Notes on “The White Pendragons” 

They were apparently also driving round London with a "gallows"







While I am no expert I suspect the drop on that gallows would be of little use unless you were intending to cull hobbits.

Bartholomew provides some details of the group. It's leader is apparently Graham Moore (ex-UKIP, ex-English Democrats, Take Back Control twitter account), and reportedly one of those at the Sadiq Khan stunt was Davey Russell (EDL).

Moore also trades as the 'The People's Bailiffs', who served advance notice of their proposed "Constitutional Awareness days", including last Saturday, on the Queen last October.  



> The ballot – Referendum – has failed, ignored in favour of Tyranny and complete contempt for democracy, the law of the land and our rights. Democracy has failed us! Because Tyranny and the might of the State are upon us.





> The solution:
> 
> It is your right enshrined within OUR Constitutional Law, The Rule of Law, Common Law. To petition the Monarch and The Independent Judiciary. It is your Birthright to be FREE.





> The Mechanism for this needs to be the same or very similar to Iceland. Pots and Pans, noise and showing them OUR discontent.
> 
> We need Quads, Bikers, foot soldiers, disabled, unemployed, employed, retired etc to take “personal responsibility” for taking back OUR Country from Tyranny.








Unaccountably the tyrannical forces who have "hijacked our laws" and "subverted our system of governance" seem not to have taken this 'Pre-action notice' seriously. Another scandal.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 15, 2018)

gawkrodger said:


> I see we have some new Biffer/FOTL  types called the White Pendragons
> 
> Sadiq Khan speech disrupted by Brexit and Trump supporters





Lurdan said:


> Interesting post about this lot at Richard Bartholomew's blog.
> 
> Some Notes on “The White Pendragons”
> 
> ...



Far funnier in their own words...


----------



## bimble (Jan 15, 2018)

^ the budgies


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 15, 2018)

A new bunch of nutters, just what we need.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> ^ the budgies


I like they way they get louder as the video goes on...


----------



## existentialist (Jan 15, 2018)

In fact, I was rather hoping the video might end like the final scene in The Birds, with yer man mobbed by screeching brightly-coloured birds


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> ^ the budgies



A watch of a couple of others in the oeuvre reveals that it's a parrot called 'Wellington'.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 15, 2018)

I like that they are officially pen dragons. Not Pendragons. Also that they use it aas a plural. _Crevices and corners._


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 15, 2018)

Is the Pen Dragon mightier than the sword ?


----------



## bimble (Jan 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> A watch of a couple of others in the oeuvre reveals that it's a parrot called 'Wellington'.


Does the parrot say anything?


----------



## existentialist (Jan 15, 2018)

If anyone ever does a parody of this, it should be to a crescendoing soundtrack of implausibly assorted birdsong, with everything from larks to Great Auks. Against a backdrop of peeling wallpaper, a window repaired with cardboard, and a selection of embarrassingly personal items lined up on a rusting radiator.

And louder rousing music. Possibly that school version of Also Sprach Zarathustra.


----------



## bimble (Jan 15, 2018)

This is his (their?) website. It is quite amazing.
British Warriors Within - all areas, England


----------



## Lurdan (Jan 15, 2018)

Their celebrity chum speaks out (nice dig at her former employers)







But as for their 'thinking'. . .


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> This is his (their?) website. It is quite amazing.
> British Warriors Within - all areas, England



Definitely the same guy . Don't know if it's the same parrot.

Tempted to join to get my British Warriors Within magnetic calendar.


----------



## bimble (Jan 15, 2018)

The auto-soundtrack is my favourite bit: Lions roaring, a military brass section, some spitfires, what's not to like.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 15, 2018)

There should have been a bit of the lions eating the parrot. Or the parrot dogfighting the spitfires.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 15, 2018)

Lurdan said:


> But as for their 'thinking'. . .



And yet that scoundrel Khan has somehow conspired to remain at large


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> And yet that scoundrel Khan has somehow conspired to remain at large



Illuminati shapeshifter...


----------



## LDC (Jan 15, 2018)

That website is spectacular. The British Defence Militia section is going to go well.... 

Can't help but laugh at the section on their website called the 'BDM shop.'


----------



## gawkrodger (Jan 15, 2018)

that video is brilliant 
Pissing myself.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Far funnier in their own words...




Can we crowdfund him to fuck off to the US as Trump's replacement?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 15, 2018)

Some of the comments on youtube...



> I would say mad as a march hare, but that would be insulting to the hare.





> Infiltrate you? you got 480-odd views      Put the parrot on, it'll make more sense.





> Hey you Saxon/Norman immigrant, the Welsh want their dragon back.





> Your bird has better speaking skills and a higher intelligence. Now piss off..





> You gammon-faced bellends.





> This is the funniest comedy sketch since Monty Python!





> I'm sure I heard his mum in the background asking "Have you got a bird in your room"





> Sort out the wall paper, it's peeling off. Get your mum to wash that dirty sock that's on the radiator. PS The parrot said you're talking nonsense.





> Your parrot is telling you to spend less time on silly fascist hobbies and more on interior decorating.



And, the winner is...



> Sounds like an idiot, is that r2d2 in the background


----------



## marty21 (Jan 15, 2018)

I did manage a flat for a local authority a few years ago , the tenant was one of these Freemen  he claimed we had no right to charge him rent and refused to pay it  no amount of persuasion would convince him. TBF , he refused to claim benefits apart from Housing Benefit  (for the rent we weren't supposed to charge him ) His income was from his dad, who I suspect gave him money to keep him away  

Last I heard, he was evicted for rent arrears


----------



## BemusedbyLife (Jan 15, 2018)

bimble said:


> This is his (their?) website. It is quite amazing.
> British Warriors Within - all areas, England


Well there's 10lb of crazy in a 5lb bag for you, I especially liked the Lion roaring in the background, these idiots do know that lions aren't native to the UK and come from the same continent as the black people right?


----------



## existentialist (Jan 15, 2018)

BemusedbyLife said:


> Well there's 10lb of crazy in a 5lb bag for you, I especially liked the Lion roaring in the background, these idiots do know that lions aren't native to the UK and come from the same continent as the black people right?


How do you know he doesn't live just down the road from Longleat, hm?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 15, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> interesting that the advertising standards authority hasn't shat on them from a great height



I assume they are on holiday... quite a well paid one

I  remember years ago people trying to use this in Ireland and Uk on the left. I mainly just saw people getting nicked for taking the piss and in one case the bloke was sectioned LOL.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2018)

BemusedbyLife said:


> Well there's 10lb of crazy in a 5lb bag for you


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 29, 2018)

I got 'sacked' by a fotler as his key worker today  didn't like that i found it remarkable his urine wasn't at body temperature!!

I can work with most people but for some reason they dont like working with me?  I'll take all sorts of shit day to day but not what these people spout about their 'research'. First time he tried to preech to me I shut him down straight away by saying id heard all about this kind of research and it had pissed me off when I did so if he didn't want to piss me off he'd have to politley stfu about what ever shit he was trying to tell me 

He won't have a vaccine for hep b because of whats in it but will smoke heroin and crack and happily take methadone for years on end


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 29, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> I got 'sacked' by a fotler as his key worker today  didn't like that i found it remarkable his urine wasn't at body temperature!!
> 
> I can work with most people but for some reason they dont like working with me?  I'll take all sorts of shit day to day but not what these people spout about their 'research'. First time he tried to preech to me I shut him down straight away by saying id heard all about this kind of research and it had pissed me off when I did so if he didn't want to piss me off he'd have to politley stfu about what ever shit he was trying to tell me
> 
> He won't have a vaccine for hep b because of whats in it but will smoke heroin and crack and happily take methadone for years on end



Why would you talk to/about people you have a duty of care towards like this?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 29, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Why would you talk to/about people you have a duty of care towards like this?


I 'had' a duty of care. That doesn't give someone a right to treat me and other staff like shit and try to cheat a system providing free health care.  Don't fall off your horse btw. Im only human and well aware of my professional boundaries and limits.  He's still got his care and it wont end. in fact, we couldnt have tried to 'meet his needs' more today within the policies.. he chose to reject that and say no thanks. I cant help someone that doesn't want to be helped


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 29, 2018)

Cool story


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jan 29, 2018)

Cool projecting?   Don't be an arsehole. Sorry for your troubles. despite the horrible way you've treated me in the past, having troubles doesn't give you an excuse to be a twit.

Whatever is going on, take care of you and all the best.


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 29, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Cool projecting?   Don't be an arsehole. Sorry for your troubles. Despite the horrible way you've treated me in the past but having troubles doesn't give you an excuse to be a twit.
> 
> Whatever is going on, take care of you and all the best.



Get over yourself.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 29, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Why would you talk to/about people you have a duty of care towards like this?



Has the person been mentioned by name?

Do you know anyone who does anything involving looking after other people who doesn't feel the need to bitch about some of those people sometimes? Because I don't.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jan 29, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Get over yourself.



Right. There's me being hysterical again clearly.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 29, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Has the person been mentioned by name?
> 
> Do you know anyone who does anything involving looking after other people who doesn't feel the need to bitch about some of those people sometimes? Because I don't.



It’s a fair point, but I could see where MIB was coming from tbf


----------



## existentialist (Jan 29, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Has the person been mentioned by name?
> 
> Do you know anyone who does anything involving looking after other people who doesn't feel the need to bitch about some of those people sometimes? Because I don't.


This.

I'm extremely careful about what I say about clients here - the chances of one of them seeing my words, far less recognising me, is slim, but it's my choice not to take even that tiny risk - but count on it that there are times when, amongst professionals, we might share the occasional snarky aside, particularly if it's a client who's been pushing our buttons or shoving the boundaries around.

Nice as it might be to think that the support worker you're sitting in front of is living the whole unconditional positive regard/non-judgemental thing, we do have buttons that can occasionally get pressed, and we may well feel the need to let off a bit of steam about it. Provided the client isn't capable of being identified, and providing that letting-off-steam process doesn't risk making its way back into the professional encounter, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, sometimes it's that very process that enables us to go back in front of the client and work with them appropriately and professionally.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 29, 2018)

I think we need to be careful, though, that things said on here can be identified by a rudimentary Google search.

As has been said many times before.


----------



## Humberto (Jan 29, 2018)

Stick to daily kitten news then


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 29, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> I 'had' a duty of care. That doesn't give someone a right to treat me and other staff like shit and try to cheat a system providing free health care.  Don't fall off your horse btw. Im only human and well aware of my professional boundaries and limits.  He's still got his care and it wont end. in fact, we couldnt have tried to 'meet his needs' more today within the policies.. he chose to reject that and say no thanks. I cant help someone that doesn't want to be helped


Hmmmm. I am a carer, your post made me feel kind of uncomfortable to be honest. It just isn't something you do, come flying onto a forum slagging off someone you were looking after, named or not named. I might say it to my mum or something but even then I wouldn't be saying stuff like I SHUT THEM RIGHT DOWN. Eeek!


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 29, 2018)

Yes. It was what was said/done to the SU, and the gloating about it, which got me. Not issues of confidentiality/traceability. 

Being gleeful about asserting your dominance over those in your care is a red flag to me. 

Care Work is full of billy big bollocks types. (As well as truly lovely souls).


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 29, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Right. There's me being hysterical again clearly.



I’m not doing this with you right now. I posted about another posters attitude towards those in their care.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 29, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Has the person been mentioned by name?
> 
> Do you know anyone who does anything involving looking after other people who doesn't feel the need to bitch about some of those people sometimes? Because I don't.


Yes, but not quite like that. Dodgy behaviour, leads me to draw conclusions re their general conduct at work to be honest. Which is precisely why you don't do that, because people think care workers are cunts as it is.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 29, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Yes. It was what was said/done to the SU, and the gloating about it, which got me. Not issues of confidentiality/traceability.
> 
> Being gleeful about asserting your dominance over those in your care is a red flag to me.
> 
> Care Work is full of billy big bollocks types. (As well as truly lovely souls).


It is indeed! I am likely jaded and suspicious 16 years in this job but I seen a red flag.


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 29, 2018)

existentialist said:


> This.
> 
> I'm extremely careful about what I say about clients here - the chances of one of them seeing my words, far less recognising me, is slim, but it's my choice not to take even that tiny risk - but count on it that there are times when, amongst professionals, we might share the occasional snarky aside, particularly if it's a client who's been pushing our buttons or shoving the boundaries around.
> 
> Nice as it might be to think that the support worker you're sitting in front of is living the whole unconditional positive regard/non-judgemental thing, we do have buttons that can occasionally get pressed, and we may well feel the need to let off a bit of steam about it. Provided the client isn't capable of being identified, and providing that letting-off-steam process doesn't risk making its way back into the professional encounter, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, sometimes it's that very process that enables us to go back in front of the client and work with them appropriately and professionally.



The ‘button’ in this instance was the SUs conspiracism. If that sets you off as a HCP/care worker then it’s something for reflection.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

existentialist said:


> This.
> 
> I'm extremely careful about what I say about clients here - the chances of one of them seeing my words, far less recognising me, is slim, but it's my choice not to take even that tiny risk - but count on it that there are times when, amongst professionals, we might share the occasional snarky aside, particularly if it's a client who's been pushing our buttons or shoving the boundaries around.
> 
> Nice as it might be to think that the support worker you're sitting in front of is living the whole unconditional positive regard/non-judgemental thing, we do have buttons that can occasionally get pressed, and we may well feel the need to let off a bit of steam about it. Provided the client isn't capable of being identified, and providing that letting-off-steam process doesn't risk making its way back into the professional encounter, there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, sometimes it's that very process that enables us to go back in front of the client and work with them appropriately and professionally.


Aye but like you do it between staff after work over a bottle of vodka or something. It was the description of the encounter itself which was a bit telling though -hence the question is that how you talk to someone you have a duty of care to not "should you have posted that". I don't have  any water tight logic to win the toss though, other than it just isn't something you do. Bowing out


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> The ‘button’ in this instance was the SUs conspiracism. If that sets you off as a HCP/care worker then it’s something for reflection.


Aye, if drug use is involved then mental health risk, so grandiose/paranoid/magical thinking a tell tale sign. I am sure you know as well as I do not everyone in HC understands the subject though.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 30, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> The ‘button’ in this instance was the SUs conspiracism. If that sets you off as a HCP/care worker then it’s something for reflection.


From what Mumbles274 said in his post, it was about far more than that. And, as someone who has two CTers on his caseload, I can say that the particular mindset that goes with it is EXACTLY the kind of thing that makes doing this kind of work frustrating. When you are trying to work respectfully and with care, and someone's trying to get a rise out of you, it's tough staying professional.

I've had a client in the past who regularly interrogated me about my own views on 9/11, and when I demurred on giving an opinion, was quite aggressive in the way they tried to goad me into stepping out of my professional role. It was all perfectly manageable, but I did feel the need to decompress after each session, and that was definitely a heartsink client when I saw their name on my case list for the day


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

existentialist said:


> From what Mumbles274 said in his post, it was about far more than that. And, as someone who has two CTers on his caseload, I can say that the particular mindset that goes with it is EXACTLY the kind of thing that makes doing this kind of work frustrating. When you are trying to work respectfully and with care, and someone's trying to get a rise out of you, it's tough staying professional.
> 
> I've had a client in the past who regularly interrogated me about my own views on 9/11, and when I demurred on giving an opinion, was quite aggressive in the way they tried to goad me into stepping out of my professional role. It was all perfectly manageable, but I did feel the need to decompress after each session, and that was definitely a heartsink client when I saw their name on my case list for the day


However



> *First time *he tried to preech to me *I shut him down straight away* by saying* id heard all about this kind of research and it had pissed me off when I did so if he didn't want to piss me off he'd have to politley stfu about what ever shit he was trying to tell me  *



Have you ever said that to a service user? "IF YOU DON'T WANT TO PISS ME OFF" 

*or anything remotely like that?


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2018)

Besides, I found an addendum to the Magna Carta down the back of my sofa the other day and it specifically states that no man should be judged by the temperature of his urine.


----------



## JimW (Jan 30, 2018)

elbows said:


> Besides, I found an addendum to the Magna Carta down the back of my sofa the other day and it specifically states that no man should be judged by the temperature of his urine.


Though it ought to be the colour and viscosity of runny mead.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> However
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you ever had every session hijacked by conspiracy bollocks? The thing is, it seems you are putting your shit onto something and imagining your own scenario that took place.

Im not even sure its worth replying really Urban is a hive of argument seeking nonsense and its not for me thanks. I don't really have to justify myself, i am 100% sure that shutting him down and how i did it was professional and appropriate. In the half hour or so i have a month to see someone if im lucky, using congruence in a calm professional way is no red flag you seek it to be. letting someone hijack the brief time you have to assess someone's wellfare, mental health, substance use, safeguarding etc etc is not really any good to them. 

Im paid to treat people, not like them and im certainly not paid for them to like me. there's plenty of wankers in the helping field and im sure plenty of you reading this have been clients and felt some power imbalance, that sucks for sure, bit don't pre judge that every worker is out to fuck you or their clients over.. Because you'll never be helped if so


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> The ‘button’ in this instance was the SUs conspiracism. If that sets you off as a HCP/care worker then it’s something for reflection.


i take it you haven't worked with people professionally before? CTers whole aim is to push buttons. They are trolls on here and in real life. There is never a point where they say ah games up, you're right. They are in the instances I've come across abusive and manipulative and frankly some of the hardest people to work with.

Dam right they push buttons.. Hence why as a professional i have researched it, discussed them im clinical meetings, supported team members to work with them, and ultimately enable them to stay im treatment until a point they decide they want to stop using drugs.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> However
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My role is a lot different from his, so no, it's not something I'd be likely to say.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> i take it you haven't worked with people professionally before? CTers whole aim is to push buttons. They are trolls on here and in real life. There is never a point where they say ah games up, you're right. They are in the instances I've come across abusive and manipulative and frankly some of the hardest people to work with.
> 
> Dam right they push buttons.. Hence why as a professional i have researched it, discussed them im clinical meetings, supported team members to work with them, and ultimately enable them to stay im treatment until a point they decide they want to stop using drugs.


I have to say, I find the idea of a drug user CTer slightly amusing. How do they know what they put IN them? Or is it OK so long as the drugs aren't produced by Big Pharma, but the much safer and more benign organised traffickers and criminals?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I have to say, I find the idea of a drug user CTer slightly amusing. How do they know what they put IN them? Or is it OK so long as the drugs aren't produced by Big Pharma, but the much safer and more benign organised traffickers and criminals?


Nail on head!!


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

existentialist said:


> My role is a lot different from his, so no, it's not something I'd be likely to say.


Oh dear lord. In what situation would it be acceptable to basically abuse a position of power by using threatening language(albeit in a smug, passive aggressive way?) I have to put up with sustained abuse hours, days months at a time by the same person/people. I get into arguments, sure we all do. Often of the sort you get into with your mum though, there's still basically trust there.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

I'd allow for someone saying something in the heat of the moment, but you go home, reflect, and say to yourself FFS try a bit harder. Because of the power imbalance, you do your best not to abuse it.


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> Nail on head!!



What, that conspiracism is a bit silly?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Oh dear lord. In what situation would it be acceptable to basically abuse a position of power by using threatening language(albeit in a smug, passive aggressive way?) I have to put up with sustained abuse hours, days months at a time by the same person/people. I get into arguments, sure we all do. Often of the sort you get into with your mum though, there's still basically trust there.


you're in fantasy land i'm afraid. You have no way of knowing if it was abuse of power or passive aggressive. this is your stuff.

The client  passive aggressive and abusive though. Being boundaried and reigning that in is 100% appropriate in my job. You might be a nice person but you cant project yourself into this situation. There is no abuse of power, i wasn't angry when i said it, i was quite clear that i have experienced the 'conspiracy' stuff before and had pissed me off, so for us to work together it's best left at the door, as i said, i was 'polite', a word no one seems to have picked up on? It was firm but straight with him. Now remember, there is no arguing with conspiracy, and i have 30mins at best to ensure they get their treatment needs met, not talk about whether his name is actually his fucking name


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> you're in fantasy land i'm afraid. You have no way of knowing if it was abuse of power or passive aggressive. this is your stuff.
> 
> The client  passive aggressive and abusive though. Being boundaried and reigning that in is 100% appropriate in my job. You might be a nice person but you cant project yourself into this situation. There is no abuse of power, i wasn't angry when i said it, i was quite clear that i have experienced the 'conspiracy' stuff before and had pissed me off, so for us to work together it's best left at the door, as i said, i was 'polite', a word no one seems to have picked up on? It was firm but straight with him. Now remember, there is no arguing with conspiracy, and i have 30mins at best to ensure they get their treatment needs met, not talk about whether his name is actually his fucking name


I read it, your choice of words was inappropriate for someone in your position, regardless of the tone of voice you used.


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> as i said, i was 'polite', a word no one seems to have picked up on?



Er, not really.



Mumbles274 said:


> if he didn't want to piss me off he'd have to politley stfu about what ever shit he was trying to tell me


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> Have you ever had every session hijacked by conspiracy bollocks? The thing is, it seems you are putting your shit onto something and imagining your own scenario that took place.
> 
> Im not even sure its worth replying really Urban is a hive of argument seeking nonsense and its not for me thanks. I don't really have to justify myself, i am 100% sure that shutting him down and how i did it was professional and appropriate. In the half hour or so i have a month to see someone if im lucky, using congruence in a calm professional way is no red flag you seek it to be. letting someone hijack the brief time you have to assess someone's wellfare, mental health, substance use, safeguarding etc etc is not really any good to them.
> 
> Im paid to treat people, not like them and im certainly not paid for them to like me. there's plenty of wankers in the helping field and im sure plenty of you reading this have been clients and felt some power imbalance, that sucks for sure, bit don't pre judge that every worker is out to fuck you or their clients over.. Because you'll never be helped if so


You sound a bit like you think you can do no wrong. I think you should maybe work on that?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> I read it, your choice of words was inappropriate for someone in your position, regardless of the tone of voice you used.


We'll have to disagree about that.. You might not like how i described it, but you cant judge what actually happened based on 2 or 3 sentences on an internet forum. Although you are of course doing exactly that. 

You seem to think a worker should display no emotion to clients. What about if they say they like watching graphic porn? Would it be wrong to say that is unpleasant to listen to? What about if they glorified burglary? 

It was an intervention to specifically ensure he didn't hijack the session with CT bollocks, for his wellbeing, not mine, don't forget that. My job is to help him stop using drugs not debate vaccines causing autism


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Er, not really.


Yeah but he SAID polite


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Er, not really.


The stfu was polite.. I didn't actually say shut the fuck up


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> im sure plenty of you reading this have been clients and felt some power imbalance, that sucks for sure, bit don't pre judge that every worker is out to fuck you or their clients over.. Because you'll never be helped if so



What was that about passive aggression?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> The stfu was polite.. I didn't actually say shut the fuck up



I assumed you didn't actually say 'shut the fuck up', may be others didn't, hence the responses.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> You sound a bit like you think you can do no wrong. I think you should maybe work on that?


are


HoratioCuthbert said:


> You sound a bit like you think you can do no wrong. I think you should maybe work on that?


How the fuck do you get to that conclusion?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> You seem to think a worker should display no emotion to clients. What about if they say they like watching graphic porn? Would it be wrong to say that is unpleasant to listen to? What about if they glorified burglary?
> 
> It was an intervention to specifically ensure he didn't hijack the session with CT bollocks, for his wellbeing, not mine, don't forget that. My job is to help him stop using drugs not debate vaccines causing autism


I didn't say that. Read my post upthread about getting into arguments. As I and MIB have suggested, it's the lack of reflection afterwards that is of concern.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jan 30, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I assumed you didn't actually say 'shut the fuck up', may be others didn't, hence the responses.



Of course he didn't. There is a load of projection going on here and the desire to have a row. Real urbans.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> I didn't say that. Read my post upthread about getting into arguments. As I and MIB have suggested, it's the lack of reflection afterwards that is of concern.



Hold on. What kind of reflection would you like? I imagine mumbles has some kind of supervision and case review opportunities. It's a bit much for you or anyone else here to demand it here IMO. You may think he told the story in a brash way but he did outline why he has the boundaries he does.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Of course he didn't. There is a load of projection going on here and the desire to have a row. Real urbans.


Are you sure that's what is going on? do you not think those of us that work in healthcare have a fair idea of what passes for professional conduct, even if we are lower down the foodchain. I gather he didn't say STFU but that wasn't the bit I pointed out. "If you don't want to make me angry" not appropriate.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> are
> 
> How the fuck do you get to that conclusion?


Just the way you are lecturing me. There are better ways to de-escalate a situation besides suggesting you may blow your top, but fine, I will have to take your word for it, as I appear to be projecting rather than reading


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> You sound a bit like you think you can do no wrong. I think you should maybe work on that?


You sound like you’re after a pointless argument on the Internet, maybe you should work on that?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 30, 2018)




----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Hold on. What kind of reflection would you like? I imagine mumbles has some kind of supervision and case review opportunities. It's a bit much for you or anyone else here to demand it here IMO. You may think he told the story in a brash way but he did outline why he has the boundaries he does.



I should have said apparent lack of reflection. I did a bit of a mental health nursing degree at KCL as well but had to stop due to issues at home, so I am not viewing this from a position of total ignorance. It's bad banter innit.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You sound like you’re after a pointless argument on the Internet, maybe you should work on that?


Perhaps I do.


----------



## Shechemite (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Perhaps I do.



Non-commital wedding vows for the 21st Century.


----------



## Horus Snacks (Jan 30, 2018)

Libertad said:


> I'm trying to get an idea of how widespread these billboard posters are. It's Freemen of the Land fucktwattery but there are no links stating such on the poster. I've spotted one in Cornwall, has anyone else seen them in their area?


I have never seen this anywhere. I don't even think it's real


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> because people think care workers are cunts as it is.


This is what you projected from the off. As i said, your stuff. Worth reflecting on


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 30, 2018)

Horus Snacks said:


> I have never seen this anywhere. I don't even think it's real


Surely you saw the one in wells?


----------



## Libertad (Jan 30, 2018)

Horus Snacks said:


> I have never seen this anywhere. I don't even think it's real



Your not having seen an example does not point to the certainty of their non-existence.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 30, 2018)

I think it may be a gag.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> This is what you projected from the off. As i said, your stuff. Worth reflecting on


Not sure what stuff "stuff" is. Besides all this people hammering the drugs are prone to magical thinking, vulnerable minds swallow much BS- been there with the old PND, never take yer powers of logic and reason for granted.  Time constraints fuck up our ability to care for people with complicated issues, but this is primarily due to lack of funding and that rather than timewasters. Just like don't get yer priorities all tae fuck in the chaos


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 30, 2018)

Horus Snacks said:


> I have never seen this anywhere. I don't even think it's real



The mystery of the 'legal name fraud' billboards has more

unless this is all part of some conspiracy


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## Horus Snacks (Jan 30, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> The mystery of the 'legal name fraud' billboards has more
> 
> unless this is all part of some conspiracy


Well fuck me.


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## ddraig (Jan 30, 2018)

saw one in Cardiff at the time


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## 2hats (Jan 30, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> unless this is all part of some conspiracy


Clearly an SIS recruitment drive to identify the uberintelligent.


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## keybored (Jan 30, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Surely you saw the one in wells?


6 weeks, tops.


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## existentialist (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> I read it, your choice of words was inappropriate for someone in your position, regardless of the tone of voice you used.


That's rather judgemental, don't you think?


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## existentialist (Jan 30, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> You sound a bit like you think you can do no wrong. I think you should maybe work on that?


He sounds like someone defending himself against people reading WAY too much into an off the cuff post describing the frustrations of dealing professionally with conspiraloons.


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## existentialist (Jan 30, 2018)

Horus Snacks said:


> Well fuck me.


I'd rather not, but I'll hold your coat in case someone else wants to.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 30, 2018)

Libertad said:


> Your not having seen an example does not point to the certainty of their non-existence.


i have never seen horus snacks .'. they do not exist


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## Pickman's model (Jan 30, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Surely you saw the one in wells?


was it awesome?


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## Shechemite (Jan 30, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Surely you saw the one in wells?






Pickman's model said:


> was it awesome?



Ahhh


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 30, 2018)

existentialist said:


> That's rather judgemental, don't you think?


Well yeah, aren't we all on different subjects, bunch of judgy fuckers


existentialist said:


> He sounds like someone defending himself against people reading WAY too much into an off the cuff post describing the frustrations of dealing professionally with conspiraloons.


I am not reading anymore into it other than what I pointed out, using those particular words where a power imbalance *always* exists. Leave it though, as I am not sure what it is I am projecting other than that so can't respond to the accusation.  

Want to say stuff about using the word "conspiraloon" where mental illness/drug induced delusional states may also exist but better not derail the thread anymore


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## MrSpikey (Jan 31, 2018)

bimble said:


> Does the parrot say anything?



Pieces of hate.


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## Mumbles274 (Jan 31, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Well yeah, aren't we all on different subjects, bunch of judgy fuckers
> 
> I am not reading anymore into it other than what I pointed out, using those particular words where a power imbalance *always* exists. Leave it though, as I am not sure what it is I am projecting other than that so can't respond to the accusation.
> 
> Want to say stuff about using the word "conspiraloon" where mental illness/drug induced delusional states may also exist but better not derail the thread anymore



yet you have ignored every time i have replied to your accusations and you made more yourself. Do you want me to go back through the thread and post them, ie smug, innapropriate, unable to reflect on my practice, abuse of power etc etc.

I told you why how i spoke to him and the manner in which i spoke to him took place and it is for the exact reason you are now tryong to claim are you interests on the subject. Mental health issues.

Lets be really clear about 1 thing. I actually have worked with the is guy and another specific CTer in our service. As a team they both receive a really high standard of care. Not perfect, no worker is perfect, but as a team prescribing scheduled drugs both these clients are regularly discussed. Today he will be passed to the area manager so he can call this client to raise any issue he has about me. I will do that. He will also be discussed with a psychiatrist where how we treat people with conspiracy therories in general will be a part of a whole team's CPD. None of this is happening because of a thread on the internet that has rumbled on while i have actually been working with high risk drug and alcohol clients where you have dug at and poked at me constantly with your own 'care workers are power hungry abusive cunts' agenda.

_If _you can't see that is your stuff and your projection i expect that is something YOU need to reflect on

But if you actually have some academic research into psychiatric issues and CT stuff post it up. If its another way to try to make me look shit. Shut the door on your way out


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 31, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> yet you have ignored every time i have replied to your accusations and you made more yourself. Do you want me to go back through the thread and post them, ie smug, innapropriate, unable to reflect on my practice, abuse of power etc etc.
> 
> I told you why how i spoke to him and the manner in which i spoke to him took place and it is for the exact reason you are now tryong to claim are you interests on the subject. Mental health issues.
> 
> ...


Whaaaaat? I am a care worker myself and have no agenda, I genuinely didn't like your post but honestly wish I just said that and left it like that. I mentioned myself we are all crap, I am far from perfect myself, a crabbit cunt as it happens.

I know a couple of people who got a bit 'looney when they became ill and as I said I had some strange ideas myself when I had PND. There was one on these boards too that I was thinking about yesterday when I wrote that to the other poster. Nothing more than that. No interest in posting academic research I am just going by a decade and a half of experience 

As for what your team are up to right now, how stupid do you think I am, I don't think you've been denying him care but you've got two other posters saying I am thinking things and projecting things and I said I do not know what these things are. Irrelevant info, what are you guys reading into my posts? 

I thought you sounded like a dick in your post, and you sound like one now, let's leave it at that.


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## Mumbles274 (Jan 31, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Whaaaaat? I am a care worker myself and have no agenda, I genuinely didn't like your post but honestly wish I just said that and left it like that. I mentioned myself we are all crap, I am far from perfect myself, a crabbit cunt as it happens.
> 
> I know a couple of people who got a bit 'looney when they became ill and as I said I had some strange ideas myself when I had PND. There was one on these boards too that I was thinking about yesterday when I wrote that to the other poster. Nothing more than that.
> 
> ...


That's the point im making..you didn't leave it there. Didnt acknowledge any of my replies to you. Kept on with it...and now with insults when after 2 days of you having a pop at me i get fucked off with you


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 31, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> That's the point im making..you didn't leave it there. Didnt acknowledge any of my replies to you. Kept on with it...and now with insults when after 2 days of you having a pop at me i get fucked off with you



You were fucked off richt awa. It was the same two accusations repeated because you and others kept saying I had stuff I was projecting avoiding the actual words on the page I had a problem with. The exchange as recounted(minus the STFU I did not think that was said) and the boasting. It shouldn't have gone on for a day and a bit but I was trying to be clear as people kept saying I was "reading things into" it as opposed to just reading it.


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## existentialist (Jan 31, 2018)

Well, this is going well. There's nothing like someone telling someone else how to do their job...


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jan 31, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Well, this is going well. There's nothing like someone telling someone else how to do their job...


There you go again, making the issue far wider than it actually is!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 31, 2018)

Oh just stfu the pair of you


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## lazythursday (Jan 31, 2018)

Perhaps I could suggest a legal remedy for this dispute under common law. I've got these template letters you just need to fill in three times with your strawman.


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## mojo pixy (Jan 31, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh just stfu the pair of you



A lien on both your houses!


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## mrs quoad (Aug 5, 2018)

Man claimed he was a 'freeman of the land' | Daily Mail Online

 



> A convicted fraudster who stole more than £16,500 from a charity fund for his dying son was thrown out of court yesterday after refusing to stand up for magistrates.
> 
> 
> Julian Emms, 52, who was jailed for three years in 2012 after embezzling cash from a fund set up to help his son Michael fight Motor Neuron disease.
> ...



Guessing he was there “advising” someone else, god help them?!


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## emanymton (Aug 5, 2018)

mrs quoad said:


> Man claimed he was a 'freeman of the land' | Daily Mail Online
> 
> View attachment 143153
> 
> ...


The idea everyone should stand is a pile of shit though. How much time and money was waisted becsuse someone didn't stand up?


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## mrs quoad (Aug 5, 2018)

emanymton said:


> The idea everyone should stand is a pile of shit though. How much time abd money was waisted becsuse someone didn't stand up?


None. 

Paper money is a fiction


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