# The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILED)



## Lord Camomile (Jul 18, 2012)

So, you've seen the most hotly anticipated movie since the last one, you're desperate to discuss it, but you don't want to spoil the "I am your long-lost accountant" ending - where on earth do go?!

Here, weary traveller, here.

Was it worth shelling out for IMAX?
Is Bale still doing the Batvoice, and how does Hardy's Banevoice compare?
Does The Joker make an uncredited Oliver Reed/Tupac-style cameo?*

Praise, whine and indifferentiate.... now!





*too soon?


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 18, 2012)

Spoiler



Meh


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 19, 2012)

Must stay away from thread til Sunday


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 20, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Meh


 
Agreed.


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## METH LAB (Jul 20, 2012)

the dark night rises.. fuck off allready he dresses in a batmask and looks like a fuckin childrens breakfest show every bloody time...first one with jack nicolson was good..batman begins i kinda liked, the rest are complete and utter cosmically commical shite! so says me.


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## METH LAB (Jul 20, 2012)

dark night can stay where the fuck he is and play with his batmask he got from some 1 quid for everything shop

dark night rises jesus what a ridiculas name..gimme strengh thats hollywood pathetic as hollywood gets


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 20, 2012)

So you've seen it then meth ?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 20, 2012)

I watched it today and was satisfied that it held true to the first two. It's long but so were the other 2.

Hathaway is very sexy, funny and has a reasonable presence of danger, playing Kyle very well. Gordon-Levitt is good as Blake, a part that gets meatier as the film goes on but it's a interesting. Caine as Alfred doesn't get much screen time but still steals every one he's in. Oldman as Gordon is allowed to show some cracks in his 'goodness'.

Cameos by Leeson, Cillian Murphy tie in well but don't overdo it. Marion Cottilard is good, a love interest and minor/major plot character but sadly any time a woman is on screen _and isn't CatWoman_ you're a little disappointed.

Summary - the greatest superhero trilogy ever made by a mile.

So far


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## DexterTCN (Jul 20, 2012)

The 2nd is probably the best of the three (human sacrifice and all that) but this is a wonderful finale because there's not a lot you can really do after the first two.   For me, knowing it was the last means that I was actually more interested in Wayne/Batman's end (because I was into the Nolan idea, I don't think he'd sell out, I don't think Bale would sell out).  It could be Bane, it could be a nuke, it could be a knife, it could be a normal life or whatever.   The film is part of a thought out trilogy about the birth, life and death of Batman, not about what other characters do.  

So...Batman and Robin?


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## thriller (Jul 20, 2012)

how long is this? 2 hours?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 20, 2012)

thriller said:


> how long is this? 2 hours?


Keep going.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2012)

I liked it, the second is still my favourite but this is a worthy ending. 

Thought they didn't need to have Robin reveal his name and Arse Al Gool's daughter dying was the Darth Vader 'Nooooooo' moment of the film though!


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## Shreddy (Jul 21, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> So you've seen it then meth ?


Nope...but somebody did...prolly on meth


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## Liveist (Jul 21, 2012)

*Raises hand*. I have a question:


Spoiler



So how did Bruce Wayne get from wherever he was (once he climbed out the well which I am assuming to be somewhere in India) back to Gotham to meet Selina Kyle, crucially within the space of a day or so, especially with no money and with the city completely isolated and locked off?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 21, 2012)

Liveist said:


> *Raises hand*. I have a question:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Because he's Batman.


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## Balbi (Jul 21, 2012)

It was more than a day. The difference between special forces being killed and the next scene was 20 days iirc.

It's the Return if the Jedi to TDK's Empire.


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## revol68 (Jul 21, 2012)

I waa torn between it being an awesome film and yet counter revolutionary filth all at once. Atleast that cop in the white gloves died. Hathaway was like woah!


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## Santino (Jul 21, 2012)

Liveist said:


> *Raises hand*. I have a question:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I expect he had emergency funds locked away in a secret bank account somewhere. Quick coded phone call to his Swiss contact and hours later there's a private jet waiting for him.


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## Santino (Jul 21, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I waa torn between it being an awesome film and yet counter revolutionary filth all at once. Atleast that cop in the white gloves died. Hathaway was like woah!


It made a big point about the new Batman being an ordinary working class man.


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## PlaidDragon (Jul 21, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> Because he's Batman.


That was my mate's explanation as well.

i thought it was well made, well acted, and well directed, but the plot was a fucking mess. I called the Robin thing straight away, and it was like Nolan was just shoving everything in that he could think of. Best bits were Cillian Murphy's bit, and Alfred at the grave.

And I know it's Hollywood, but just a LITTLE explanation of how Batman survived would have been fucking nice.


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## october_lost (Jul 21, 2012)

I thought the last ten minutes were the only really remarkable thing in the two and half hours. It felt totally out of jar with the other films; the fights, baggy story, Anne Hathaway and the politics felt a little dodgy in places. I knew something was wrong in the opening sequence, and the extra toys along with the female leads don't really add much to the scramble. Bit of an average affair to end the sequence.


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## youngian (Jul 21, 2012)

Santino said:


> It made a big point about the new Batman being an ordinary working class man.


Think about it most of these superheroes are middle class professionals. Although you wouldn't have a builder-


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 21, 2012)

It was good.


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## Ranbay (Jul 21, 2012)

Just back, what pissed me off was the explaining everything parts....cut them out and it would have been ace.

maybe there should be a fan versions that's about an hour shorter?

also took a long time to get going, but when it did it was ace.

Overall i was happy with it but a few times i was like, just fucking get on with it!!!!


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## Superdupastupor (Jul 22, 2012)

I was 3 fingers drunk + vallied so my accounting of it may be a little skewed

but I thought it was rubbish, really really rubbish.

I thought prometheus was rubbish too, maybe I should stop going to the movies when drunk 


Eta: Thinking about it I was sober when I saw Men In Black3 and I enjoyed that a lot


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## DexterTCN (Jul 22, 2012)

Superdupastupor said:


> I was 3 fingers drunk + vallied so my accounting of it may be a little skewed
> 
> but I thought it was rubbish, really really rubbish.
> 
> ...


The vallies probably stop you getting involved in any plot or commitment.

However if the lack of them made you enjoy MiB3, I'd stay on them.


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## Superdupastupor (Jul 22, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> The vallies probably stop you getting involved in any plot or commitment.
> 
> However if the lack of them made you enjoy MiB3, I'd stay on them.


 
fucked if I do fucked if I don't ......

yeh a lot of it flew past me i'm guessing  pretty stupid


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## badseed (Jul 22, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> The 2nd is probably the best of the three (human sacrifice and all that) but this is a wonderful finale because there's not a lot you can really do after the first two. For me, knowing it was the last means that I was actually more interested in Wayne/Batman's end (because I was into the Nolan idea, I don't think he'd sell out, I don't think Bale would sell out). It could be Bane, it could be a nuke, it could be a knife, it could be a normal life or whatever. The film is part of a thought out trilogy about the birth, life and death of Batman, not about what other characters do.
> 
> So...Batman and Robin?


Agree strongly with this and your previous post.

I stayed away from all hype, threads and reviews before seeing this one and I am glad I did.
I didn't even know Talia was going to be in it  Is she knocked up with Damien now?

Hollywood ending though, Bruce should never get the girl, especially not Selina (not forever anyway)

Great trilogy, but I am a batman fanboy anyway.


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## Balbi (Jul 22, 2012)

Like I said, it's Jedi to TDKs Empire. Good,but not surpassing.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 22, 2012)

PlaidDragon said:


> ...And I know it's Hollywood, but just a LITTLE explanation of how Batman survived would have been fucking nice.


Because he's Batman.

Some more thoughts:- In Rises, Nolan has stripped Batman of his tools of the trade. Most of the action is during the day, Batman prefers night, he looks like an (old) man in a suit during the day. None of his gadgets, money or utilities are available to him, on the rare occasion they are (ie the Bane fight) they are useless or work against him. He seems vulnerable all the way through the film, there's a sense of foreboding, we always feel something is going to badly hurt or kill him...or he'll do it to himself.

I would rate the trilogy like this - TDK, BB, TDKR.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2012)

Ive just come back from seeing it and LOVED it. I watched BB and TDK over the last week to prepare and I now strangely enough think the Dark Knight to be the weakest of the 3 , but thats not saying much as I think its the best triology of films ive seen in a long while if not ever.

I was sitting there at times thinking it didnt even feel like a Batman film and that was no bad thing.

The only bad thing about it was the couple in the seats across from me who somehow got thier ( approx age ) 3 and 5 year old kids into the cinema who started whinging and crying, i think they had no respect for thier kids as they shouldnt be watching that type of film and no respect fro the rest of the cinema , cunts


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## youngian (Jul 22, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Just back, what pissed me off was the explaining everything parts....cut them out and it would have been ace.
> 
> maybe there should be a fan versions that's about an hour shorter?
> 
> ...


 
I would agree, there was a lot of Basil Exposition stuff that we could of worked out and I couldn't hear a lot of Tom Hardy anyway, who sounded like Boris Karloff with a bucket on his head.
Once Bane executed his plan the film was compulsive.

Not familiar with Anne Hathaway, who stars in films I avoid, so she was the biggest surprise. Nolan's Batman characters tend to be po-faced (especially Bale) but her performance was cool and witty without camping it up totally.

Michael Caine got to do some good Michael Caine impressions, including the deployment of his pièce de résistance; emotional low voice with a tear in his ear.

Gary Oldman was the same as he was in the other two- just effing great.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2012)

Everyone complains about Bane's voice but he was perfectly understandable to me..!


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2012)

Same as , had no problem hearing Bane at all....


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## Onslow (Jul 23, 2012)

PlaidDragon said:


> That was my mate's explanation as well.
> 
> 
> 
> And I know it's Hollywood, but just a LITTLE explanation of how Batman survived would have been fucking nice.


 
The autopilot was broken on that flight thing (it said during the film)....BUT..after you think he's dead...you hear Lucius Fox talking to one of the engineers because hes noticed that the autopilot had been fixed, and he asks when and by who, and the engineeer says 'it was fixed by Mr Wayne , sir'.

so hes obvs set the autopilot and jumped out, wanting all of Gotahm to think hes dead so he can go off with Ms Kyle. He's not soft that one yanno.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 23, 2012)

i understood that but on reflection, im wondering, if the ' bat ' got blown up with the bomb , what was lucius looking at as surely a 4 megaton bomb would have vapourised it ? its a plot hole i can live with as i hadnt thought about it that much until now..


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## Onslow (Jul 23, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> i understood that but on reflection, im wondering, if the ' bat ' got blown up with the bomb , what was lucius looking at as surely a 4 megaton bomb would have vapourised it ? its a plot hole i can live with as i hadnt thought about it that much until now..


 
ah ok. I thought it was the software he was looking at, not the actual 'Bat'.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 23, 2012)

you could be right but im sure there was a batterd ' bat ' in the background...


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 23, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> I would rate the trilogy like this - TDK, BB, TDKR.


 
Batman Begins is easily the best of the trilogy


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## Santino (Jul 23, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> you could be right but im sure there was a batterd ' bat ' in the background...


When Fox first demonstrated the Bat he mentioned that there was also a black one. Of course there'd be spares, like there were several tumblers.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 23, 2012)

if there were so many spares then wouldnt have Bane found them like he did the tumblers?


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 23, 2012)

Hollywood action films, especially comic book ones no one says anything and nothing happens without it directly being linked to somthing that will happen or explaining somthing that did happen.

So in the first bit of the film where LF says 'OH YES AND IT HAS AUTOPILOT LOL' it was fookin obvious that Bats was going to pretend to be dead when he inevitably crashed it into something in approx 2hrs time. Its like Alfred saying 'OK im leaving the film now as its all gonna be bane-tasti I wonder were ill go perhaps that Italian cafe i was going on about earlier to drink sherry guess ill see you there when you fake your death at the end'

Not that I'm complaining, I found it all highly enjoyable.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 23, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Everyone complains about Bane's voice but he was perfectly understandable to me..!


 
I was dissapointed it wasn't *more* weird and hard to hear..


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 23, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> if there were so many spares then wouldnt have Bane found them like he did the tumblers?



There was a mention of more high end tech being hidden elsewhere wasn't there?


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 23, 2012)

i wouldnt be surprised , cant remember it myself , im sure il see it again in the next few weeks and check again, but even if it was a plot hole, i dont really care lol didint detract from the spectacle at all


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## gosub (Jul 23, 2012)

So how did bloke with no money or passport get from West Africa to Gotham in a day?


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## captainmission (Jul 23, 2012)

gosub said:


> So how did bloke with no money or passport get from West Africa to Gotham in a day?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 23, 2012)

gosub said:


> So how did bloke with no money or passport get from West Africa to Gotham in a day?


He's Batman?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 24, 2012)

gosub said:


> So how did bloke with no money or passport get from West Africa to Gotham in a day?



How did he get back from North Korea or wherever it was in BB?


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## Santino (Jul 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How did he get back from North Korea or wherever it was in BB?


Easy, he rang Alfred and reversed the charges.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 24, 2012)

gosub said:


> So how did bloke with no money or passport get from West Africa to Gotham in a day?


 

he didnt , it was India  /pedant


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## Fez909 (Jul 25, 2012)

Another disappointing blockbuster. I should've learned by now that these films aren't for me, and I'm starting to agree with Reno (I think it was), who said Nolan is the most overrated director in the world.

Someone I was with last night said TDKR was the greatest action film ever and Nolan was really the best director in the last 20 years. I couldn't be arsed to argue so I just smiled.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jul 25, 2012)

I enjoyed it. Hathaway's character was the highlight. The heavyhanded conservative political message was the lowlight.


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## Santino (Jul 25, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I enjoyed it. Hathaway's character was the highlight. The heavyhanded conservative political message was the lowlight.


I would say it was a mixed message. What enabled Bane to take over the city? Aggressive, predatory capitalism (personified by Daggett) aided by laissez-faire liberalism (Bruce Wayne).


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## DexterTCN (Jul 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Another disappointing blockbuster. I should've learned by now that these films aren't for me, and I'm starting to agree with Reno (I think it was), who said Nolan is the most overrated director in the world.
> 
> Someone I was with last night said TDKR was the greatest action film ever and Nolan was really the best director in the last 20 years. I couldn't be arsed to argue so I just smiled.


/can't be arsed


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## elevendayempire (Jul 25, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> Because he's Batman.


Batman Begins shows he's pretty adept at surviving on his wits alone – he spends a good chunk of that film working his way through China with nowt but the shirt on his back.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 25, 2012)

He probably used his Batphone.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jul 25, 2012)

Santino said:


> I would say it was a mixed message. What enabled Bane to take over the city? Aggressive, predatory capitalism (personified by Daggett) aided by laissez-faire liberalism (Bruce Wayne).


 
...and the assistance of malleable, vengeful and nihilistic masses. I think the film was essentially Dickensian in its message (indeed, parts of the plot are based on a Tale of Two Cities): it recognises certain injustices under the status quo but warns that the alternatives are far worse. Trickle-down economics, plutocratic philanthropy and the rolling back of civil liberties are presented as the solutions whilst collective political projects and radical transformation are doomed to fall under the sway of demagogues.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 25, 2012)

It was by far the worst of the three. Total bollocks.


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## revol68 (Jul 25, 2012)

Santino said:


> I would say it was a mixed message. What enabled Bane to take over the city? Aggressive, predatory capitalism (personified by Daggett) aided by laissez-faire liberalism (Bruce Wayne).


 
It's a call for better more paternal capitalism so that people don't fall prey to extremism.

Found myself cheering for Bane through much of it, especially when the cops came streaming out of the tunnels (surprisingly clean shaven!), I was chuffed when the cop in the white gloves turned up dead.


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## revol68 (Jul 25, 2012)

but yeah Hathaway was the best thing in it, had a sense of irony about her.

think I'll have to see it again to get a better view on it, easy to get sucked up in the event of the blockbuster at the cinema.


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## Santino (Jul 25, 2012)

I've found nearly all Nolan films to be most enjoyable on the second viewing.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jul 25, 2012)

Santino said:


> I've found nearly all Nolan films to be most enjoyable on the second viewing.


 
Yeah, he's got a real skill for layering. His films are like jigsaw puzzles for the mind. You tend to notice all sorts of patterns and themes and metaphors and connections that you didn't notice the first time on second viewing.


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## Santino (Jul 25, 2012)

With both Inception and The Prestige I was left feeling a bit 'meh' immediately after seeing them, but then kept thinking about them and a few days later thought 'That was really good! I want to see it again!'


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2012)

The Prestige fairs well on repeat watch. Inception gets even more boring than the first time round however...


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## DexterTCN (Jul 25, 2012)

Apparently the themes with the trilogy are
BB - Fear
TDK - Chaos
TDKR - Pain


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2012)

Where did that come from?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Where did that come from?


 
The Nolan part.


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## Santino (Jul 25, 2012)

Another theme is punching people.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 25, 2012)

I like the sub-theme of elbowing people in the face and then kneeing them in the chest... a lot.

I noticed that Bats does some awesome 'beat loads of baddies up all at once' sequences in TDR that are more than a little reminiscent of Arkham Asylum, more so than the other films..


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2012)

I had a decidedly mixed reaction to this. The pacing of the film was way off, the script was great in places and pretty cheesy in others. Christian Bale was solid but fairly dull as usual but the rest of the cast were very good. Gordon-Levitt's character was more interesting than I thought he would be and Anne Hathaway was (and I never thought I'd say this) fantastic in what could easily have been a fairly pointless role. 

Tom Hardy didn't have a lot to do, but he did it well enough. Bane didn't really feel like a proper character in the same way Ledger's Joker did, and the twist at the end kind of undermined what little characterisation there was. Cotillard's character was a bit of a non-entity as well. 

The sound mixing felt decidedly off in places, with either the music or the background effects often smothering the dialogue. I did like Bane's voice though. The visuals were excellent, less self-consciously gothic and gloomy than the previous two installments and all the better for it. I really liked the sudden shift to a snow-covered Gotham, and Cillian Murphy's courtroom was a nice concession to comic book daftness. 

I liked the nods to A Tale of Two Cities, which were effective right up to the point where Nolan has one of his characters actually quote from the book right at the end 

I want to go and see it again, I know that much. It was a good conclusion to a good trilogy. It just wasn't quite as good as it thought it was.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2012)

Santino said:


> I would say it was a mixed message. What enabled Bane to take over the city? Aggressive, predatory capitalism (personified by Daggett) aided by laissez-faire liberalism (Bruce Wayne).


 
I wouldn't spend to much time pondering the political implications of these films tbh. 

The one interesting thing about this one was how it attacked the idea of the politician as a figurehead. There was a strong implication that the idea of Harvey Dent as a martyr and a hero had been created by politicians to allow them to do nasty things in the name of fighting crime. It was good to see this film turn away from something that felt like a pretty dodgy message in the previous film.


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## october_lost (Jul 26, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/batman-political-right-turn

Conservative themes anyone?


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 27, 2012)

october_lost said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/batman-political-right-turn
> 
> Conservative themes anyone?


 
I like the idiots who thought that the character Bane was somehow named after a company vaguely linked to (insert obviously made-up name of American politician here) when everyone knows Bane has been a staple of the Batman franchise for twenty years, long before the Republicans' big cloning tank had even spat out (insert obviously made-up name of American politician here) never mind his silly company.


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## 8ball (Jul 27, 2012)

Really, really enjoyed it, but I have a question.

Did Batman die (literally, not metaphorically) at the end or not?


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 27, 2012)

well it would appear the ' the batman ' or the legend of ' the batman ' died , hence the statue, however it left it open to be ressurected by John blake ( well thats what i thought  )


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## 8ball (Jul 27, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> well it would appear the ' the batman ' or the legend of ' the batman ' died , hence the statue, however it left it open to be ressurected by John blake ( well thats what i thought  )


 
Not quite what I meant.  I just meant did Bruce Wayne get nuked.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 27, 2012)

erm, did you not watch the last scene ? with Alfred in the cafe ? 

from that id say no bruce wayne did not die, but wiped his identity from existance with the clean slate and buggered off to have lovin action with catwoman for the rest of his days ! ( good lad!! )


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## 8ball (Jul 27, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> erm, did you not watch the last scene ? with Alfred in the cafe ?
> 
> from that id say no bruce wayne did not die, but wiped his identity from existace with the clean slate and buggered off to have lovin action with catwoman for the rest of his days ! ( good lad!! )


 
Yes, that was the most obvious clunky ending.

Though I thought it quite likely (given the shot of Batman in the 'Bat' a couple of secs before detonation), that this was similar to Wayne seeing Ra's al Ghul when he was in the bizarre implausible prison.  Though more of a half-hallucination that he recognised he was having (he saw someone who looked like Wayne and let his imagination run with it).

There is the thing about the auto-pilot apparently being fixed too, that def works in favour of the more obvious interpretation.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 27, 2012)

it think the auto pilot scene screams the clunky ending at you , but i can see where youd think it could have been Alfred tripping, , except that selina Kyle was also in the scene, and she was the one who wanted the clean slate to start with


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## 8ball (Jul 27, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> it think the auto pilot scene screams the clunky ending at you , but i can see where youd think it could have been Alfred tripping, , except that selina Kyle was also in the scene, and she was the one who wanted the clean slate to start with


 
Yeah, the auto pilot does, but then he's on the Bat very shortly before it gets nuked.

Also Alfred's reaction is pretty muted (even for him).  I think it's deliberately done so that it could be interpreted as either a symbolic or a literal ending.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 27, 2012)

Alfred's reaction is pretty muted because, when he was talking about that scene ealier in the film with Bruce, he said we would see each other but not acknowledge or speak to each other. or something very similar.


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## 8ball (Jul 27, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> Alfred's reaction is pretty muted because, when he was talking about that scene ealier in the film with Bruce, he said we would see each other but not acknowledge or speak to each other. or something very similar.


 
True, but that in the fantasy he was having while Bruce was away. 
Reality always turns out differently, so the way everyone behaved as in his fantasy lends credence to the idea it _was _a fantasy, and also a metaphor for Bruce now being free of 'the bat'.

Plus I prefer it to the clunkiness,


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 27, 2012)

well looks like im not going to convince you what ever i say 

but thats the beauty of it, different peoples interpretation of it 

although i am right


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## 8ball (Jul 27, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> well looks like im not oging to convinve you what ever i say
> 
> but thats the beauty of it, different peoples interpretation of it
> 
> although i am right


 
Well, I'm not sure I'm right, but I think there's a good chance its meant to be ambiguous.  Had a quick Google and I wasn't the only person to pick up on this.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 27, 2012)




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## Lord Camomile (Jul 27, 2012)

Yet to read the thread, but it all seemed like the production was rather rushed. What the fuck was up with the script and editing?

TDK > TDKR

Will be interesting watching it again at IMAX.


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## Stigmata (Jul 28, 2012)

It was good. Had fun playing Spot the Actor- Teal'c from Stargate, Littlefinger from Game of Thrones, creepy rape guy from Torchwood.

Some of the most blatant foreshadowing- "This chamber is designed to flood if necessary" etc. Revolutionary Gotham didn't seem all that bad to me.


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## Ranbay (Jul 28, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> It was good. Had fun playing Spot the Actor- Teal'c from Stargate, Littlefinger from Game of Thrones, creepy rape guy from Torchwood.
> 
> Some of the most blatant foreshadowing- "This chamber is designed to flood if necessary" etc. Revolutionary Gotham didn't seem all that bad to me.


 
I'm co Godfather with Burn Gorman  True Story.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 28, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> It was good. Had fun playing Spot the Actor- Teal'c from Stargate, Littlefinger from Game of Thrones, creepy rape guy from Torchwood.
> 
> Some of the most blatant foreshadowing- "This chamber is designed to flood if necessary" etc. Revolutionary Gotham didn't seem all that bad to me.


Quinn from Dexter


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## DexterTCN (Jul 29, 2012)

There's an interesting 38 minute podcast on Empire that's all spoilers and discussion of stuff...you can listen to it while looking for threads to post on 
http://www.empireonline.com/podcast/   21 July edition.


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## redsquirrel (Jul 30, 2012)

Santino said:


> I've found nearly all Nolan films to be most enjoyable on the second viewing.


The Prestige is the only one I re-watched but I had totally the opposite experience to you.
I liked it first time around but re-watching it just showed up all the flaws in it and made it clear that there wasn't rally all that much there.


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## Crispy (Jul 31, 2012)

Just got back from it. Seriously floppy plot, lots of earnest acting and writing thats not as clever as it thinks it is. The punching and the flying and the driving and the explosions were great though. Boff! Kapow!

But it just didnt make me care about the characters or the plot. Superhero movies that try and play it straight only make the ridiculousness more ridiculous. I think I prefer Tim Burton's version tbh. Theatrical and a little bit camp, which is better fitting to a story of a man who dresses up as a bat and punches people in prosthetic makeup.

Did anybody else notice that the rope in the unclimbable well went all the way to the top? It's a prison for idiots who can't climb ropes. Also, the policeman army has the worst urban warfare tactics I've ever seen.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 31, 2012)

Crispy said:


> ... Superhero movies that try and play it straight only make the ridiculousness more ridiculous.
> 
> Did anybody else notice that the rope in the unclimbable well went all the way to the top? It's a prison for idiots who can't climb ropes.


It didn't play it straight, it made out Bane was the child.

If the rope didn't go all the way to the top...how would all the other prisoners get out, why do you think they chanted hoping someone would make it?   Talia obviously left them there, Bruce fixed the rope for them to escape.


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## Crispy (Jul 31, 2012)

Whenever any prisoner tried to escape, the rope around their waist was tied to a point higher than the "leap of faith" ledges, right at the top. Just climb the rope to the top.

When I say "played straight" I mean the tone and internal logic, not the bluff in the plot. It wants to be a gritty, realistic, dramatic, emotional movie. About a gravel voiced man in fancy dress who punches people in makeup. Your standard kaboom-filled blockbuster is usually a little bit self aware, but these batman films want to be taken completely seriously. It's not a serious subject!


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## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Did anybody else notice that the rope in the unclimbable well went all the way to the top? It's a prison for idiots who can't climb ropes. Also, the policeman army has the worst urban warfare tactics I've ever seen.


Yeah I did love the "lets just charge at people with tanks and semi-automatic weapons" tactic.


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2012)

quick question, did they film some of this at Senate House, London? The scene where they take the SWAT team to visit Lucius and Miranda Tate, I'm sure I saw "William Beveridge Hall" written on the wall...


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 31, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It's not a serious subject!


 
I can't believe you would say this about Batman!


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## Santino (Jul 31, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> quick question, did they film some of this at Senate House, London? The scene where they take the SWAT team to visit Lucius and Miranda Tate, I'm sure I saw "William Beveridge Hall" written on the wall...


Yes, loads of it. It was also used for Batman Begins.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 31, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Yeah I did love the "lets just charge at people with tanks and semi-automatic weapons" tactic.


 
And packing everyone into a single narrow street, where half a dozen grenades could have wiped out the lot of them, was just mental. Stuff like that really bugs me, there's suspension of disbelief and then there's pure stupidity.


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## Crispy (Jul 31, 2012)

Also, suspension bridges don't work when you remove the middle section.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 31, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Also, suspension bridges don't work when you remove the middle section.


 
I did wonder about that.


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> And packing everyone into a single narrow street, where half a dozen grenades could have wiped out the lot of them, was just mental. Stuff like that really bugs me, there's suspension of disbelief and then there's pure stupidity.


 
In fairness if your enemy isn't going to open fire until you're 20 metres away, then a mass charge might work


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## DexterTCN (Jul 31, 2012)

If a nuke is about to go off killing everyone you have to attack directly, no time for anything else.


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## Santino (Jul 31, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> If a nuke is about to go off killing everyone you have to attack directly, no time for anything else.


Yes, it was a distraction to keep Sauron busy while Frodo destroyed the Ring.


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## Private Storm (Aug 1, 2012)

As for Batman making it out alive at the end, I read into it that Kyle planted the pearls on Batman in their embrace before he flies off, he sets it on autopilot and then she goes and picks him up wherever he jumped out, tracking the pearls as happened earlier in the film. They get mentioned as missing when they are going through the will. Or have I made something up in my head that just couldn't have happened?


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## ruffneck23 (Aug 1, 2012)

erm i doint recall seeing that but kudos to you if it did


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 1, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> If a nuke is about to go off killing everyone you have to attack directly, no time for anything else.


 
And last time I checked nukes had a shockwave and fallout.  The flash alone should have blinded the kids on the bus.


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## Santino (Aug 1, 2012)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> And last time I checked nukes had a shockwave and fallout.  The flash alone should have blinded the kids on the bus.


It's not that kind of nuclear bomb.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 1, 2012)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> And last time I checked nukes had a shockwave and fallout.  The flash alone should have blinded the kids on the bus.



It was a tactical nuke.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Aug 1, 2012)

I thought it was a neutron bomb.  That would give a decent amount of flash and booom (not as much as conventional, but enough), and everyone exposed would die of the radiation later.


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## Santino (Aug 1, 2012)

It's a fictional bomb based on made-up breakthroughs in physics.


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## Santino (Aug 1, 2012)

Other observations after a second viewing:

I didn't have a problem with the rope climb. The rope was higher than the ledge, but the wall above could well have been unclimbable.

Bane has completely raised the bar for super-villains leaving a hero in an escapable trap and then ignoring them while getting on with executing their masterplan.

Blake throwing his police badge away could be _un hommage_ to High Noon, a bit like the Shane reference from The Dark Knight.

Apart from people's mysterious knowledge of the countdown clock, the only plothole I really noticed was Talia meeting Bruce after he's come back and apparently not telling Bane, so that he's surprised when Batman announces his return. Only really affects a bit of acting rather than the actual plot unfolding though.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 1, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> quick question, did they film some of this at Senate House, London? The scene where they take the SWAT team to visit Lucius and Miranda Tate, I'm sure I saw "William Beveridge Hall" written on the wall...


 
Wayne Manor is just down the road from me


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## Jeff Robinson (Aug 1, 2012)

Santino said:


> Apart from people's mysterious knowledge of the countdown clock, the only plothole I really noticed was Talia meeting Bruce after he's come back and apparently not telling Bane, so that he's surprised when Batman announces his return. Only really affects a bit of acting rather than the actual plot unfolding though.


 
Talia would surely have just detonated the bomb as soon as she knew that Bruce had returned. The reason the league didn't do so initally was to torture Bruce by making him watch Gotham get destroyed but at the point he starts to lead the resistance they had everything to lose and nothing to gain by continuing to fight. Unless of course some sort of physical victory over batman prior to the destruction was part of the MO of their revenge. On that last point why would Talia have wanted to avenge her father's death given that he cast her and her childhood protector out into the cold?


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## Stigmata (Aug 2, 2012)

Santino said:


> Apart from people's mysterious knowledge of the countdown clock


 
Weren't Morgan Freeman and Random Board Member present when the Russian scientist switched on the bomb and mentioned the timer? They could have told other people.


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## The Groke (Aug 2, 2012)

Watched it over the weekend.

Was "fine" I suppose. Definitely the weakest of the trilogy - some great individual scenes, but the pacing and flow was all _over_ the shop and it just didn't grip me like the other two. Oddly it didn't feel particularly long and I reckon that it may have worked better if it had been longer still, allowing some of the key plot-lines and character development arcs more room to grow and breathe.

Not bad, not great - just mildly disappointing.

I suppose then that by default, if one (correctly) ignores the existence of Insomnia, it claims the title of "worst Nolan movie".


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 2, 2012)

Oh god Insomnia was terrible...


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## Jeff Robinson (Aug 2, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh god Insomnia was terrible...


 
I thought it was a gripping psychological drama.


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## mwgdrwg (Aug 2, 2012)

Saw this a couple of days ago, and still think it was very meh. Third best superhero film of the summer.


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## Santino (Aug 2, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Talia would surely have just detonated the bomb as soon as she knew that Bruce had returned. The reason the league didn't do so initally was to torture Bruce by making him watch Gotham get destroyed but at the point he starts to lead the resistance they had everything to lose and nothing to gain by continuing to fight. Unless of course some sort of physical victory over batman prior to the destruction was part of the MO of their revenge. On that last point why would Talia have wanted to avenge her father's death given that he cast her and her childhood protector out into the cold?


It was obviously very important to Talia for Bruce to know why everything was happening. Textbook monologuing.


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## DexterTCN (Aug 4, 2012)

In the podcast I linked to earlier someone says that after a heist the newspaper 'Gotham Guardian'  Spells heist wrongly   (might have been tdk)


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## The Octagon (Aug 8, 2012)

Saw it last night, enjoyed it, but still a bit 'meh' overall.

Pacing was weird, the dialogue was at several points drowned out by the incidental music (Hans Zimmer doesn't do subtle it seems) and Michael Caine overacted to the point of ridiculousness.

On the other hand, Anne Hathaway was very good, Hardy did a decent job with a fairly rubbish character and Joeseph Gordon-Levitt continues to impress.

Suffered from a little too much '3rd-film overload' of characters, which I hoped Nolan would steer clear of, but the action set pieces were very good (and the fights were actually well shot, not too many quick cuts) 

Will watch again, but to me it didn't match up to either of it's predecessors.


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## The Octagon (Aug 13, 2012)

Excuse the Mail link, but - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ma-replica-Bruce-Waynes-underground-lair.html

Want.


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## Idris2002 (Aug 15, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> ...and the assistance of malleable, vengeful and nihilistic masses. I think the film was essentially Dickensian in its message (indeed, parts of the plot are based on a Tale of Two Cities): it recognises certain injustices under the status quo but warns that the alternatives are far worse. Trickle-down economics, plutocratic philanthropy and the rolling back of civil liberties are presented as the solutions whilst collective political projects and radical transformation are doomed to fall under the sway of demagogues.


 
My sentiments exactly. I've just seen it, and it's a long time (maybe never) since I've hated a film this much.

I don't think the ideological stinkiness was deliberate, just the result of confused people just firing out tropes and cliches more or less at random.

If I had been sitting in a row of people who didn't deserve to have their evening out disrupted by an incensed Irishman, I would have walked out.

Hathaway was good - the only good thing in the film maybe, though the wee lad who played Robin wasn't bad - but even there I thought Diana Rigg did this sort of thing much better in the Avengers, nearly fifty years ago.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 15, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> I don't think the ideological stinkiness was deliberate, just the result of confused people just firing out tropes and cliches more or less at random.


 
In terms of politics and morality the film was all over the place. Some dubious messages for sure, but they were so ham-fistedly put across that they just felt like afterthoughts put in to make what was a straightforward if not particularly well-exceuted action movie seem like something more important.

The Dark Knight wasn't much different tbh, with the whole 'let's protect the people from the truth' denouement leaving a particularly nasty taste in the mouth, but at least there was a coherent moral conflict at the centre of the film and enough ambiguity to leave the audience to make their own decision about who, if anyone, is worth sympathising with.

All the characters in 'Rises' were basically action movie staples. Selina Kyle the self-seeking femme fatale who cannot help but turn good when exposed to the goodness of the hero, Bane the nutcase who wants to blow up a city because of...some reason nobody ever bothers to explain, Tait the honey-trap betrayer, Morgan Freeman as Morgan Freeman and Batman the immortal, unstoppable, incorruptible and thus really quite dull hero. The political nonsense, the Dickensian touches, the backstories and all that silliness with the climbing all felt like stuff that had been put in to cover up the fact that the actual plot wasn't up to much.


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## Santino (Aug 16, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> Bane the nutcase who wants to blow up a city because of...some reason nobody ever bothers to explain


Because he was a member of the League of Shadows, a fanatical organisation that had been seeking for years to destroy Gotham by one method or another in order to fulfil its mission of reigning in the decadent excesses of Western civilisation.

It was quite well explained.


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## DexterTCN (Aug 16, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> ... all that silliness with the climbing all felt like stuff that had been put in to cover up the fact that the actual plot wasn't up to much.


The bit where the dark knight rises while everyone shouts 'RISE!' in a film called The Dark Knight Rises?   I think that's part of the plot.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 16, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> The bit where the dark knight rises while everyone shouts 'RISE!' in a film called The Dark Knight Rises? I think that's part of the plot.


 
A title is not the same thing as a plot.


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## Crispy (Aug 16, 2012)

Santino said:


> Because he was a member of the League of Shadows, a fanatical organisation that had been seeking for years to destroy Gotham by one method or another in order to fulfil its mission of reigning in the decadent excesses of Western civilisation.
> 
> It was quite well explained.


Right at the end!


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## Santino (Aug 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Right at the end!


The mission of the Leage of Shadows was explained back in Batman Begins, and Bane's association with the League was established early on in this film.


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## Crispy (Aug 16, 2012)

Hmm. Well, it didn't make any sense to me at the time.


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## ruffneck23 (Aug 16, 2012)

all three films tie together really well, espcially BB and TDKR , and its all there and explained in front of you 

I dont know if it helped that i saw the first 2 in the week before i watched TDKR


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## TitanSound (Aug 16, 2012)

Saw it on Monday, by myself, in a VIP seat. Loved it. Opening scene is awesome. Yes, Michael Caine was hamming it up big time emotionally, yes it's a bit of a silly plot, but enjoyable none the less. Saw the twist coming from a mile away but was surprised at how they delivered it.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Aug 17, 2012)

I CANNOT BELIEVE people are saying that Batman has a silly plot!! x1m


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## DexterTCN (Aug 23, 2012)




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## Jeff Robinson (Aug 25, 2012)

Triviality here, but I just re-watched Robocop for the first time in years tonight and a scene got me thinking. In that scene where Bane kills Dagget I remember that he quite tenderly strokes his hair before he grabs him and breaks his kneck. When I watched it I thought it was a strange little touch and also one that reminded me of something I'd seen before. I'm pretty sure it was this:



I wonder if it was an influence? Or is hair stroking before betraying and killing a recurring cinematic trope?


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## Lord Camomile (Aug 25, 2012)

It was an odd moment. It was actually quite a light touch, and I took it to mean tgat, even with such a light touch, Bane made Dagget feel powerless.

Or something.


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## Bajie (Aug 26, 2012)

Saw it last night, overall I enjoyed it, at the time, but it is full of plot holes which was somewhat distracting and it is silly in places, in a bad way that is, as it is silly pretending to be serious.

Though the different angle on Robin (compared to previous films) was done well, as was Cat Woman, but overall too long and should of had those plot holes taken out before release.


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## mentalchik (Sep 2, 2012)

Went to see this last night and really enjoyed it......bit too long and imo still not quite as good as the second film.....much better than the first one though !


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 3, 2012)

So in the end, Bane was just a side kick, much as he was in Batman and Robin to Uma Thurman?


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## Lord Camomile (Sep 3, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> So in the end, Bane was just a side kick, much as he was in Batman and Robin to Uma Thurman?


Yeah, I did think this rather undermined his character. I suppose it was supposed to give him depth, that he cared for something/one, but it just rendered him a bit lame to be honest, like none of it was actually his idea and he was little more than a hired goon.


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## Reno (Dec 1, 2012)

I only saw this today. Not being the world greatest Christopher Nolan fan, to my surprise I actually really enjoyed it. Curiously it shares a major plot twist with the James Bond film The World is Not Enough: the apparent main villain turns out to be a henchman, while the real criminal mastermind who pulls the strings is the romantic interest. Setting up an origin story which is revealed as a plot twist at the end is a ploy the film has in common with this years Bond (Robin/Moneypenny) The only thing that slightly bothered me was that the passing of time and distances is never properly conveyed. Batman spends months in the pit, but it didn't feel like it and how does he even make it back to Gotham after his ordeal ? I also never quite believed the way Gotham descends into anarchy and couldn't make out what the citizens role in its change was.

I didn't think The Dark Knight was quite as amazing as many people did, so I suppose didn't go in with expectations that were too high. To me this was more or less on the same level, despite lacking a character as compelling as Ledger's Joker. Anne Hathaway's Catwoman comes close enough though and is great fun. This is probably the first Christopher Nolan film that has reasonably well developed female characters.

I did see this at the BFI Imax and the change back and forth between Imax and conventionally 35mm film has the effect of the 35mm scenes look bad in comparison, the the Imax scenes do look quite spectacular.


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## Firky (Dec 1, 2012)

I filed it in the same folder as Prometheus.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 1, 2012)

firky said:


> I filed it in the same folder as Prometheus.


I think you need to take another look at your alphabet


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## Firky (Dec 1, 2012)

Found both films an anti-climax, really expected something great but neither delivered. I am not a fan of Nolan though so...


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 1, 2012)

Aye, I'd concur with that, tho I was far more interested in DKR than Alien Begins.

Still can't understand why DKR was so weak when it was written by the same guys as DK


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## DexterTCN (Dec 1, 2012)

Reno said:


> ...Curiously it shares a major plot twist with the James Bond film The World is Not Enough: the apparent main villain turns out to be a henchman, while the real criminal mastermind who pulls the strings is the romantic interest....


Anyone who knows Batman knows Ra's had a daughter (Talia), not a son - a Batman fact for a long time so it was more of an in joke. My 17 year old daughter said this during the film long before the 'twist' was revealed (Dad...HE can't be Ra's son! it must be.....ooh it must be her!).


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 1, 2012)

Talking during the film?!


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## DexterTCN (Dec 1, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Talking during the film?!


Oh we always do, but it's ok in the vip seats, no-one can hear you.   Anyway we figure they'd be interested


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 1, 2012)

This. Will. Not. Stand.


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## Reno (Dec 1, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> Anyone who knows Batman knows Ra's had a daughter (Talia), not a son - a Batman fact for a long time so it was more of an in joke. My 17 year old daughter said this during the film long before the 'twist' was revealed (Dad...HE can't be Ra's son! it must be.....ooh it must be her!).


 
I don't know Batman, I never read super hero comics. The twist is still identical to The World is Not Enough, which I don't believe played out in any comic that way. I'm more of a Bond man than a superhero man and my point was that I noticed just how much Nolan's Batman films take from the Bond films.


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## DexterTCN (Dec 1, 2012)

Reno said:


> I don't know Batman, never read super hero comics. The twist is still identical to the Bond film which I don't believe played out in any comic that way.


Comics?   I meant the animated movies (and the game Arkham City) specifically Under the Red Hood, Mask of the Phantasm and Mystery of the Batwoman, all of which Nolan has referenced in an excellent way - although his directorial style is very suited to this.


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## Reno (Dec 1, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> Comics? I meant the animated movies (and the game Arkham City) specifically Under the Red Hood, Mask of the Phantasm and Mystery of the Batwoman, all of which Nolan has referenced in an excellent way - although his directorial style is very suited to this.


 
Nope, haven't seen those either.


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## DexterTCN (Dec 1, 2012)

You'd like Red Hood


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