# Heath Ledger found dead



## Belushi (Jan 22, 2008)

According to the Beeb, nothing sadder than someone dying young


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## moomoo (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh, that's sad.


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 22, 2008)

Who? Sounds like a racehorse trainer.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 22, 2008)

Link?


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## Belushi (Jan 22, 2008)

NYPD reporting possible drug related death.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jan 22, 2008)

I just came to post that too - it's not on any news sites yet except for here. I wonder how The Joker meets his end in the next Batman movie?


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## Belushi (Jan 22, 2008)

DexterTCN said:
			
		

> Link?



BBC News reporting it.


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## Melinda (Jan 22, 2008)

Its all over Sky News too


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## Sweaty Betty (Jan 22, 2008)

awww fuck!!!! who the fuck wants to be famous!!!


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 22, 2008)

wow. maybe he partied with Steve Coogan.


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## Belushi (Jan 22, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:
			
		

> Who? Sounds like a racehorse trainer.



Aussie actor, Brokeback Mountain was probably his biggest film.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 22, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:
			
		

> Who? Sounds like a racehorse trainer.


Youngish actor from Brokeback Mountain amongst other things. Very sad news.


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## moomoo (Jan 22, 2008)

Belushi said:
			
		

> NYPD reporting possible drug related death.




Well, that's hardly a surprise is it?


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## trashpony (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh no  That's so sad.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

That makes no sense - he wasn't supposed to die for ages yet


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## Buddy Bradley (Jan 22, 2008)

More: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/actor-heath-ledger-is-found-dead/index.html?hp


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 22, 2008)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Aussie actor, Brokeback Mountain was probably his biggest film.



Oh, right. Wasn't far off with the horse connection, though. Didn't some Seppo actor die last week after too many drugs, too. A senseless waste of human life.


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 22, 2008)

I always thought he was normal. Not on the brink of death.

How can he die, and Amy Winehouse/Pete Doherty live? 

There is no justice.


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## May Kasahara (Jan 22, 2008)

OMG  That's awful. I liked him a lot as an actor, and it seemed like his career was really blossoming.

He had a little girl too, with Michelle Williams


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 22, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:
			
		

> I always thought he was normal. Not on the brink of death.
> 
> How can he die, and Amy Winehouse/Pete Doherty live?
> 
> There is no justice.



Harsh, but fair.


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## CharlieAddict (Jan 22, 2008)

guess we never know what he was mumbling about in Brokeback Mountain...


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## N_igma (Jan 22, 2008)

That's sad.


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## Looby (Jan 22, 2008)

Shit, that's awful. He'd split up with Michelle Williams hadn't he?
That poor little girl.


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## meems (Jan 22, 2008)

that's really sad, young and talented once he got his shit together.

some very fond memories of he and jake whatsisface in brokeback mountain, not just a pretty face (and a nice arse)


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## MightyAphrodite (Jan 22, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> OMG




omg x 10000000000


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## Wookey (Jan 22, 2008)

Incredibly sad.


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## bluestreak (Jan 22, 2008)

Younger than me


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## Structaural (Jan 22, 2008)




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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

I wonder if the new Batman films are going to have a 'curse' like the Superman films.

But this time it's the 'baddie' characters that get it.

Been a while since there's been a good ol' movie curse.


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 22, 2008)

That is very very sad.

Brokeback Mountain is one of my favorite films and one of the few that made me cry a little. RIP Heath. You'll be missed.


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## xes (Jan 22, 2008)

so young


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## Stobart Stopper (Jan 22, 2008)

sparklefish said:
			
		

> Shit, that's awful. He'd split up with Michelle Williams hadn't he?
> That poor little girl.


Never heard of him, or her^


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 22, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:
			
		

> That is very very sad.
> 
> Brokeback Mountain is one of my favorite films and one of the few that made me cry a little. RIP Heath. You'll be missed.



Same.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

Wikipedia updated already in a comically amateurish manner,


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## Augie March (Jan 22, 2008)

Fuck. How sad, he was a talented young actor.  

I reckon playing The Joker in the new Batman film would've set him up to be a household name (if he isn't already in some parts of the world, especially Australia).

RIP


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## marty21 (Jan 22, 2008)

very sad news


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## danny la rouge (Jan 22, 2008)

Never heard of him.  I Googled and saw he was in _Brokeback Mountain_, but I haven't seen it, and so haven't seen him.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 22, 2008)

What a crap thing to happen  

You could tell the lad was only going to get better.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

danny la rouge said:
			
		

> Never heard of him.  I Googled and saw he was in _Brokeback Mountain_, but I haven't seen it, and so haven't seen him.



He was also in _A Knight's Tale_, which was quite a sweet film in it's way - you may have seen that.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 22, 2008)

BBC

Shame.   He had talent.


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## Balbi (Jan 22, 2008)

Bugger. No room for the Joker in the third Batman - that's fucked up Nolans plans for it then.

Shame - the lad was getting plaudits everywhere


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## danny la rouge (Jan 22, 2008)

8ball said:
			
		

> He was also in _A Knight's Tale_, which was quite a sweet film in it's way - you may have seen that.


No, was it based on part of Canterbury Tales?


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## Looby (Jan 22, 2008)

Stobart Stopper said:
			
		

> Never heard of him, or her^



He was in 10 things I hate about you, she was in Dawsons Creek. They met on the set of Brokeback Mountain and had a little girl Matilda.*

*I need to get out more.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

danny la rouge said:
			
		

> No, was it based on part of Canterbury Tales?



I don't think so but I'm pretty uncultured.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 22, 2008)

Seems not, but the title was.


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## stupid kid (Jan 22, 2008)

Someone's edited his wiki, it now shows an erect penis.


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## Strumpet (Jan 22, 2008)

Omfg....I'm really shocked...oh no  
I adored him. Enjoyed his films and he was yummy of course.
Ohgod that's SO sad....wow....


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## Stobart Stopper (Jan 22, 2008)

sparklefish said:
			
		

> He was in 10 things I hate about you, she was in Dawsons Creek. They met on the set of Brokeback Mountain and had a little girl Matilda.*


Oh, I love Brokeback Mountain! Always fancy a shag after watching that.


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## Dillinger4 (Jan 22, 2008)

I blame Steve Coogan.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 22, 2008)

Well, I suppose that's me officially old then.  I don't know who the film stars are before they die anymore.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

stupid kid said:
			
		

> Someone's edited his wiki, it now shows an erect penis.



A much more professional edit than the one I saw.


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## scifisam (Jan 22, 2008)

Shame - he actually did seem to be a very good actor. 




			
				stupid kid said:
			
		

> Someone's edited his wiki, it now shows an erect penis.



That is fucking sick.


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## innit (Jan 22, 2008)

stupid kid said:
			
		

> Someone's edited his wiki, it now shows an erect penis.


You made me look  

Very shocked by his death, he was my age 
His performance in Brokeback Mountain was so sensitive, he had a lot of emotional depth.


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## equationgirl (Jan 22, 2008)

He's one of my favourite actors  

That's so sad, his little girl isn't going to know her father.


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## madamv (Jan 22, 2008)

equationgirl said:
			
		

> He's one of my favourite actors
> 
> That's so sad, his little girl isn't going to know her father.



my first thoughts....

very sad


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## wishface (Jan 22, 2008)

Belushi said:
			
		

> According to the Beeb, nothing sadder than someone dying young


Just heard this.

I suppose it's too sick to be part of the batman viral marketing (though not for the Joker).


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## CJohn (Jan 22, 2008)

Shit one.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

wishface said:
			
		

> I suppose it's too sick to be part of the batman viral marketing (though not for the Joker).



I'd have been suspicious if he'd fallen into a vat of mutagenic chemicals but this is a bit too low-key.


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## scifisam (Jan 22, 2008)

Wiki have responded quickly and locked his page to new or anonymous users.

I'm still disgusted that anyone would do that.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 22, 2008)

What fucking shocking news.


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## equationgirl (Jan 22, 2008)

BBC report updated to include details of possible overdose.


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## foamy (Jan 22, 2008)

very sad indeed.
this is the second death of a young actor in a week - Brad Renfro died on the 14th.


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## moomoo (Jan 22, 2008)

28


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## Wookey (Jan 22, 2008)

Reminds me of the day River Phoenix died - and he had played an iconic gay role too.


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## Cloo (Jan 22, 2008)

That's such a shame and a waste - he was increasingly showing himself to be a really fine actor.


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## Strumpet (Jan 22, 2008)




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## danny la rouge (Jan 22, 2008)

foamy said:
			
		

> Brad Renfro died on the 14th.


Someone else of whom I have never heard.


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## 8ball (Jan 22, 2008)

scifisam said:
			
		

> I'm still disgusted that anyone would do that.



Someone really, actually did that then.  

I thought it was just stupid kid being a silly.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 22, 2008)

Tragic... i thought he was a great actor. I love a Knights Tale!


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## gabi (Jan 22, 2008)

He really was a very very good prospect as an actor. Fuck that. RIP. A great loss.


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## Strumpet (Jan 22, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:
			
		

> Tragic... i thought he was a great actor. I love a Knights Tale!



Ditto *sigh...*


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## N_igma (Jan 22, 2008)

I loved 10 Things I Hate About You too.


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## Augie March (Jan 22, 2008)

On Fox News they're  already talking about going through his phone and e-mail records and conducting an 'autopsy of his personality' to see if he was a drug addict and/or sucidal. 

Feckin' vultures.


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## Looby (Jan 22, 2008)

N_igma said:
			
		

> I loved 10 Things I Hate About You too.



Me too.


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## poului (Jan 22, 2008)

*46e7fysry43*

I'd started to warm to him too.


January blues I suspect.


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## Wookey (Jan 22, 2008)

Monday 21st Jan is meant to be the most depressing day of the year.


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## i_hate_beckham (Jan 22, 2008)

Wookey said:
			
		

> Monday 21st Jan is meant to be the most depressing day of the year.


It was, Hereford United lost 4-0 in the one game they'll play all season thats shown on Sky Sports.


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## idioteque (Jan 22, 2008)

That's really sad


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## jodal (Jan 23, 2008)

Didn't think he was much of an actor untill I saw him in Monsters Ball. Fucking amazing and I'm sure he'll be great as The Joker as well. Although it will be bitterweet watching that particular performance.


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## i_hate_beckham (Jan 23, 2008)

idioteque said:
			
		

> That's really sad



I know 4-0 is just embarra...... oh you were talking about Heath Ledger.


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## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2008)

fuck


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## Wookey (Jan 23, 2008)

jodal said:
			
		

> Although it will be bitterweet watching that particular performance.



Too true. I was really looking forward to it, and now I am really not.


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## maldwyn (Jan 23, 2008)

What a waste ...


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## HarryinOz (Jan 23, 2008)

Augie March said:
			
		

> On Fox News they're  already talking about going through his phone and e-mail records and conducting an 'autopsy of his personality' to see if he was a drug addict and/or sucidal.
> 
> Feckin' vultures.


I hate FOX so much. Being biased in the news or current affairs is one thing, but those cunts take it to another level. "Journalism" at it's worst  

Sincere condolences for the friends and family of the deceased.


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## lynne8 (Jan 23, 2008)

very sad, he was a good actor. Sorry for his daughter and family.


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## Chester Copperpot (Jan 23, 2008)

I've just seen this. Really sad news.


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## g force (Jan 23, 2008)

N_igma said:
			
		

> I loved 10 Things I Hate About You too.



Esp the scene where he sings Andy Williams over the PA   Great comic timing. I thought he was a decent actor, such a shame


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## felixthecat (Jan 23, 2008)

Sad, sad, sad - so young


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## May Kasahara (Jan 23, 2008)

g force said:
			
		

> Esp the scene where he sings Andy Williams over the PA   Great comic timing.



Innit


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## baldrick (Jan 23, 2008)




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## Orang Utan (Jan 23, 2008)

Ooh dear, poor lad


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 23, 2008)

How sad


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## Wookey (Jan 23, 2008)

It's being reported that Heath was suffering from a heroin addiction, and had been acting very strangely in public in recent months. He had checked into a rehab, but left after a few days. Non-prescription drugs have reportedly been found alongside the prescription ones near where he was dying when they found him.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...+in+New+York+after+'drug+overdose'/article.doe


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## elevendayempire (Jan 23, 2008)

Wookey said:
			
		

> Too true. I was really looking forward to it, and now I am really not.


Same here. But never mind that, what about his poor family?


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## Epico (Jan 23, 2008)

Very sad indeed.


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## Wookey (Jan 23, 2008)

elevendayempire said:
			
		

> Same here. But never mind that, what about his poor family?



Well, tbh, I don't know them, so I can only sympathise from afar in the way a stranger would. My interaction with his art, though, is more personal and immediate to me, and would perhaps be the thing Heath himself would be more concerned about, over and above some tokenistic (and obvious?) regret that his family are going through a horrible time.

How he is perceived now will be more important to his family as time goes on I suspect - although his father's public declaration that this was an accidental death shows me they are already thinking along these lines.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 23, 2008)

Someone in the office didn't know who he was and thought he sounded like some kind of rural accountant


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## Wookey (Jan 23, 2008)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Someone in the office didn't know who he was and thought he sounded like some kind of rural accountant



Buggers!!


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 23, 2008)

Dillinger4 said:
			
		

> I always thought he was normal. Not on the brink of death.
> 
> How can he die, and Amy Winehouse/Pete Doherty live?
> 
> There is no justice.


Why do you wish Amy Winehouse death? What's she done to you? Leave her alone.


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## Ranbay (Jan 23, 2008)

Leave Amy Alone!!!! * cries chris crocker style *


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## Ranbay (Jan 23, 2008)

PS - http://www.godhatesfags.com/written/fliers/20080122_heath-ledger-brokeback-mountain.pdf


Twats


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## maximilian ping (Jan 23, 2008)

i liked Heath Ledger in Brokeback but he also made a good Ned Kelly (wot is a historical hero of mine)


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## Belushi (Jan 23, 2008)

maximilian ping said:
			
		

> i liked Heath Ledger in Brokeback but he also made a good Ned Kelly (wot is a historical hero of mine)



You ever seen that film with Mick Jagger as Kelly?


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## dream_girl (Jan 23, 2008)

Never heard of him.

And who gives a fuck?


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## Belushi (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> And who gives a fuck?



I find it sad whenever anybody dies young.


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## Chairman Meow (Jan 23, 2008)

Wookey said:
			
		

> My interaction with his art, though, is more personal and immediate to me, and would perhaps be the thing Heath himself would be more concerned about, over and above some tokenistic (and obvious?) regret that his family are going through a horrible time.



You really think so?  God forbid his family shoud grieve  - how _obvious_ of them!


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## Belushi (Jan 23, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:
			
		

> You really think so?  God forbid his family shoud grieve  - how _obvious_ of them!



I dont think thats what wookie means.


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## Chairman Meow (Jan 23, 2008)

Belushi said:
			
		

> I dont think thats what wookie means.



What does he mean then?


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## maximilian ping (Jan 23, 2008)

*as big Ned*

the film wasn't that great but HL was good

belushi - into Ned Kelly too much to watch that Jagger one (how can you find a more opposite person, ie a singing elf, to play him?)


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## dream_girl (Jan 23, 2008)

Belushi said:
			
		

> I find it sad whenever anybody dies young.



Do you sit and feel sad over every dead young person then? I shouldn't think you'd have time for doing much else.


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## Melinda (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Never heard of him.
> 
> And who gives a fuck?


You're nice! Compassionate! You'll do well here!

*two thumbs up*


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## Belushi (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Do you sit and feel sad over every dead young person then? I shouldn't think you'd have time for doing much else.



No, but when I hear of someone dying young I do feel sad.


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## maximilian ping (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Never heard of him.
> 
> And who gives a fuck?



young overdose/suicide is emotive - eg sid vicious, teenage girls wot jumped off block of flats together few years back


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## dream_girl (Jan 23, 2008)

Belushi said:
			
		

> No, but when I hear of someone dying young I do feel sad.




Aahhh


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## Wookey (Jan 23, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:
			
		

> What does he mean then?



If you read the words I wrote, paying particular attention to the order in which I wrote them (which is, I believe, quite crucial to their meaning) the 'obvious' element in the sentence is the regret _we_ feel for the suffering of his family. In other words, it's fairly much understood that we can all empathise with his family's loss. That's all I was saying. Repeating it over and over is hardly a nuanced response to an untimely death, is it?

I am talking personally about my response to his art, which during his life affected me deeply, and now in death will change, I feel, forever coloured like a James Dean reel by the melancholy of lost opportunities and never-to-be-made movies. A selfish response, perhaps, but in my eyes a far more real response than simply echoing a common sentiment that has already been made, and which will never, ever be heard by the people at whom it is aimed.

I am getting quite good at explaining myself, doncha think?


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## QueenOfGoths (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Never heard of him.
> 
> And who gives a fuck?



I imagine his family does.

I feel sorry, if it is suicide, that he must have been in such a depressive state that he felt this was his only option even if it meant leaving his young child without a father.

And I would feel the same whether it was a hollywood star in New York or some bloke in a bed sit in Sutton.


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## Chairman Meow (Jan 23, 2008)

Wookey said:
			
		

> If you read the words I wrote, paying particular attention to the order in which I wrote them (which is, I believe, quite crucial to their meaning) the 'obvious' element in the sentence is the regret _we_ feel for the suffering of his family. In other words, it's fairly much understood that we can all empathise with his family's loss. That's all I was saying. Repeating it over and over is hardly a nuanced response to an untimely death, is it?
> 
> I am talking personally about my response to his art, which during his life affected me deeply, and now in death will change, I feel, forever coloured like a James Dean reel by the melancholy of lost opportunities and never-to-be-made movies. A selfish response, perhaps, but in my eyes a far more real response than simply echoing a common sentiment that has already been made, and which will never, ever be heard by the people at whom it is aimed.
> 
> I am getting quite good at explaining myself, doncha think?



No need to be so patronising - your initial statement wasn't at all clear. And my comprehension skills aren't usually too shabby - my degree is in Eng. Lit.  Perhaps if you try to be clearer next time, we won't need such a long-winded explanation, eh?

And maybe sypmathy for his family is 'tokenistic' but I feel more regret that his daughter is left without a dad, than the fact that he won't make any more movies.


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## felixthecat (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Never heard of him.
> 
> And who gives a fuck?




I wondered how long it would be before some muppet came along with this.

He was 28 years old with a young child. Thats sad by itself. And yeah, it WOULD be sad if it were Joe Smith from Dagenham who died in those ircumstances

This was also a talented bloke who brought pleasure to millions (even if not you) through his films, and that will be missed.

God, I despair of people sometimes


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## Wookey (Jan 23, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:
			
		

> No need to be so patronising



There was _every _need to be patronising, you were sarcastic towards me and you got it wrong because you didn't read carefully enough. Drop your attitude and I'll drop mine, speak to me like an equal and you'll get likewise. 

Mwah.


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## Chairman Meow (Jan 23, 2008)

Wookey said:
			
		

> There was _every _need to be patronising, you were sarcastic towards me and you got it wrong because you didn't read carefully enough. Drop your attitude and I'll drop mine, speak to me like an equal and you'll get likewise.
> 
> Mwah.



Oh whatever Wookey.I'm not here for a bunfight.


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## PacificOcean (Jan 23, 2008)

.


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## Wookey (Jan 23, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:
			
		

> Oh whatever Wookey.I'm not here for a bunfight.



Me neither heartface. Not on this thread anyway.

Let's go outside and throw snowballs.


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## Reno (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Never heard of him.
> 
> And who gives a fuck?



The people who heard of him.


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## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

Again, none of my business. But I’m sure the family need recreational mourners like he needed another line of coke – or whatever it was that killed this years James Dean.


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## Structaural (Jan 23, 2008)

Nice article by Bradshaw:

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/film/2008/01/heath_ledgers_death_could_not.html


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Do you sit and feel sad over every dead young person then? I shouldn't think you'd have time for doing much else.



As a child he used to weep in butchers' shops.


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## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

WTF!  


I better light a candle then.


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## May Kasahara (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> Again, none of my business. But I’m sure the family need recreational mourners like he needed another line of coke – or whatever it was that killed this years James Dean.



Although a lovely turn of phrase, I don't think people expressing their regret at a young life wasted really counts as recreational mourning. I think of it more as an online removal of the hat as the funeral procession goes past; a momentary acknowledgement of sadness between strangers.

Of course, I could be wrong and there could be U75ers weeping into their K right this minute, but it seems unlikely.


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## maximilian ping (Jan 23, 2008)

wot she said


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## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> I don't think people expressing their regret at a young life wasted really counts as recreational mourning.


Well, you tell me your parameters or definition and I'll agree or disagree.


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## The Groke (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> Well, you tell me your parameters or definition and I'll agree or disagree.



   


Diana = recreational grief.


Posts commenting "oh, what a shame person x is dead - he/she was a real talent etc" = what May said.


simple innit


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## Sweaty Betty (Jan 23, 2008)

Swarfega said:
			
		

> Diana = recreational grief.
> 
> 
> Posts commenting "oh, what a shame person x is dead - he/she was a real talent etc" = what May said.
> ...



Diana - recreational grief

ledger- passing comment


bernard manning?????????????


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## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

So two postures only. No one at all did anything other than 'recreational mourn' Diana, and no one at all is doing anything other than doffing an online cap to the young and talented Mr Ledger?

Doesn't work, does it?


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## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

Sweaty Betty said:
			
		

> bernard manning?????????????


For this crowd c.f. John Peel.


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## fogbat (Jan 23, 2008)

Very sad.

Have the conspiracy theories started yet?


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## The Groke (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> So two postures only. No one at all did anything other than 'recreational mourn' Diana, and no one at all is doing anything other than doffing an online cap to the young and talented Mr Ledger?
> 
> Doesn't work, does it?




What?


The general public reaction to the whole Diana farce is a perfect example of recreational grief.

Within the confines of this thread, which is about all we have to go on and is all that is being discussed here, I fail to see any hand wringing, histrionics or theatrical grieving, just posters expressing comment and dismay at the loss of someone who they considered a worthwhile talent in their field.


I'm not really sure what your point is TBH


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## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

I agree, I feel almost certain you don't either.


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## The Groke (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> I agree, I feel almost certain you don't either.



I'm beginning to suspect this is because you don't have one....


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## Orang Utan (Jan 23, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> Although a lovely turn of phrase, I don't think people expressing their regret at a young life wasted really counts as recreational mourning. I think of it more as an online removal of the hat as the funeral procession goes past; a momentary acknowledgement of sadness between strangers.
> 
> Of course, I could be wrong and there could be U75ers weeping into their K right this minute, but it seems unlikely.


Posted by a friend on another board:
"my boss is really upset about this. she seems to have taken it personally, presumably entirely because she is australian. she even called her mum back home to share the grief. massive div."
to which someone else responded:
"First Steve Irwin, now this. I don't know if the continent will ever recover. I just pray nothing happens to Harold from Neighbours"


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## dream_girl (Jan 23, 2008)

felixthecat said:
			
		

> God, I despair of people sometimes



Oh The Humanity!


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 23, 2008)

I wasn't a fan of this particular person.  I went "Who?" when I heard the news.  But, I just heard that Westboro Baptist is going to be picketing his funeral as punishment for being in Brokeback Mountain.  No one deserves to have these sleazy cunts at their funeral.

http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f34/anross21/?action=view&current=heath.jpg


----------



## 8ball (Jan 23, 2008)

Oh, the fucking, fucking, fucking utter cunts.

Let's kill them.


----------



## dream_girl (Jan 23, 2008)

8ball said:
			
		

> Oh, the fucking, fucking, fucking utter cunts.
> 
> Let's kill them.



 
I like the sound of you


----------



## felixthecat (Jan 23, 2008)

dream_girl said:
			
		

> Oh The Humanity!




Oh, the fuckwittery!


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> So two postures only. No one at all did anything other than 'recreational mourn' Diana, and no one at all is doing anything other than doffing an online cap to the young and talented Mr Ledger?
> 
> Doesn't work, does it?



Load of old cobblers.  I'm gutted about Ledger because it looked as if he had turned out something truly remarkable for the new batman film and could have been one of the great actors of his generation.  Slight echoes of kurt cobain IMO.

Diana on the other hand had no real talent other than looking like a startled deer.  You are comparing apples and zebras...


----------



## 8ball (Jan 23, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Diana on the other hand had no real talent other than looking like a startled deer.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jan 23, 2008)

In other news, thousands of people who weren't in films also died recently.

Some even made a difference to the world.

More after the break.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 23, 2008)

8ball said:
			
		

> Oh, the fucking, fucking, fucking utter cunts.
> 
> Let's kill them.



My hope is that they'll have the funeral in Australia.  I suspect that the Aussies would just hit the fuckers in the head with a kangaroo and get on with it.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> . . . of his generation.


*cringes*

You're even parroting the vacuous, two-bob cliches of light entertainment news.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> *cringes*
> 
> You're even parroting the vacuous, two-bob cliches of light entertainment news.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jan 23, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

>



I'm afraid I have to agree with London Calling.

I didn't even know who he was until this morning.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 23, 2008)

I havnt seen brokeback mountain but was looking forward to seeing him in the new batman film.

I cant say that he has effected my life at all but I did do a double take when I read the news this morning.
Yes young people with huge potential  do every die every day but when its brought to my attention I will always find it saddening.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm approaching middle age and slightly overweight but have a sunny dispos . . . oh, I see.


----------



## Augie March (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> *cringes*
> 
> You're even parroting the vacuous, two-bob cliches of light entertainment news.






			
				London_Calling said:
			
		

> or whatever it was that killed this years James Dean.



Because no-one reporting the story have been making the vacuous, two-bob cliche of comparing Mr. Ledger to Mr. Dean have they? 

No siree, they haven't...








...oh, wait a minute, they all have!


----------



## Belushi (Jan 23, 2008)

kittyP said:
			
		

> Yes young people with huge potential  do every die every day but when its brought to my attention I will always find it saddening.



spot on.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2008)

AM - I’m not sure you understand that was my point. He is inevitably this years James Dean to the light entertainment press - a huge talent unfulfilled, a loss to us all, a tormented but special talent who spoke for his generation,  the echos reach back 50 years . . . and any other old guff the editor wants in 200 words by 5.00pm.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 23, 2008)

Lots of egg on faces if he turns out to be shit as the Joker . .


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 23, 2008)

8ball said:
			
		

> Lots of egg on faces if he turns out to be shit as the Joker . .



I've never seen the man perform, but the trailer for the film looks nicely demented.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 23, 2008)

PacificOcean said:
			
		

> I'm afraid I have to agree with London Calling.
> 
> I didn't even know who he was until this morning.



and your not knowing who he was is relevant because...?

I'm basing my statement not on what I've read in the papers or something, but on what I've seen of his performance in the new Batman film, which looks absolutely brilliant, almost impossible to tell who the actor is (and not just because of the makeup), I can't think of another instance of an actor getting so completely buried in a character.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 23, 2008)

The Dark Knight will make him or break him as an actor, now.

If you see what I mean.


----------



## trashpony (Jan 23, 2008)

He was a great actor, a dad and in the prime of his life. What's so terrible about being upset about the tragic loss of potential?

Fucking hell some of you sound bitter


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 23, 2008)

trashpony said:
			
		

> He was a great actor, a dad and in the prime of his life. What's so terrible about being upset about the tragic loss of potential?
> 
> Fucking hell some of you sound bitter



Agree totally.


----------



## Augie March (Jan 23, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> AM - I’m not sure you understand that was my point. He is inevitably this years James Dean to the light entertainment press - a huge talent unfulfilled, a loss to us all, a tormented but special talent who spoke for his generation,  the echos reach back 50 years . . . and any other old guff the editor wants in 200 words by 5.00pm.



Fair enough, I stand corrected.


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Jan 23, 2008)

trashpony said:
			
		

> He was a great actor, a dad and in the prime of his life. What's so terrible about being upset about the tragic loss of potential?
> 
> Fucking hell some of you sound bitter




what tp said...

why say anything at all if you dont know/care?  

its just mean-spirited.


----------



## themonkeyman (Jan 23, 2008)

here's an interesting video of him, post Joker, just after the Bob Dylan film he was in "I'm not there" from last year.

http://www.joblo.com/video/player.php?video=Ledger 

There was a mention from Michael Caine in the London Lite, saying that he thought Heath ledger was the "most convincing murderous psychopath" on film he had ever witnessed.

Also Jack Nicholson said something to Heath Ledger along the lines of be careful when playing the Joker, he could have meant the fame that comes after it, or the effect that it can have on your mental state of mind.

When I saw a couple of the Dark Knight trailers, Heath Ledger does look really scary and very convincing.

It is a shame he has died, a promising actor who was about to hit the big time after his appearance as the Joker.


----------



## milkymoo (Jan 24, 2008)

so sad. 

he seems really jittery and unstable and conflicted in that interview compared with others i've seen

maybe the demanding roles did take their toll on him... maybe getting so into the mindset of complex characters like Dylan or The Joker was hard to come back out of...

it's a  really tragic loss


----------



## scifisam (Jan 24, 2008)

Swarfega said:
			
		

> What?
> 
> 
> The general public reaction to the whole Diana farce is a perfect example of recreational grief.
> ...



His point is this:

If you haven't met someone, you should never, ever, ever regret them dying. If you do - to the egregious extent of saying 'oh. shame,' then you're a pawn to the tabloids and other media (which LC is too good to ever encounter), and, thus, really stupid. 

In other words: there was the hysteria over Diana, and there are mild expressions of regret over an actor dying. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the two. Both are evidence of brainwashing.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 24, 2008)

scifisam said:
			
		

> His point is this:
> 
> If you haven't met someone, you should never, ever, ever regret them dying. If you do - to the egregious extent of saying 'oh. shame,' then you're a pawn to the tabloids and other media (which LC is too good to ever encounter), and, thus, really stupid.
> 
> In other words: there was the hysteria over Diana, and there are mild expressions of regret over an actor dying. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the two. Both are evidence of brainwashing.


I generally agree, but when someone is an actor or performer etc, who has brought pleasure to an audience, it might not be out of place for people who enjoyed his work to say, 'that's a shame.'


----------



## lynne8 (Jan 24, 2008)

felixthecat said:
			
		

> I wondered how long it would be before some muppet came along with this.
> 
> He was 28 years old with a young child. Thats sad by itself. And yeah, it WOULD be sad if it were Joe Smith from Dagenham who died in those ircumstances
> 
> ...



well said.


----------



## The Groke (Jan 24, 2008)

PacificOcean said:
			
		

> I'm afraid I have to agree with London Calling.
> 
> I didn't even know who he was until this morning.




How can you agree with him when he doesn't have a point?





			
				PacificOcean said:
			
		

> In other news, thousands of people who weren't in films also died recently.
> 
> Some even made a difference to the world.
> 
> More after the break.




But....we are not talking about those people. Start a thread for them and I will gladly contribute.

 






			
				scifisam said:
			
		

> His point is this:
> 
> If you haven't met someone, you should never, ever, ever regret them dying. If you do - to the egregious extent of saying 'oh. shame,' then you're a pawn to the tabloids and other media (which LC is too good to ever encounter), and, thus, really stupid.
> 
> In other words: there was the hysteria over Diana, and there are mild expressions of regret over an actor dying. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the two. Both are evidence of brainwashing.




I was half-way through a _very_ sneering response then, before reading your post through again more carefully.

 


I shouldn't post this early in the morning - I am even slower and more dim-witted than usual.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 24, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I generally agree, but when someone is an actor or performer etc, who has brought pleasure to an audience, it might not be out of place for people who enjoyed his work to say, 'that's a shame.'



I was stating LC's opinion (my take on it, that is), not mine. 

I actually do think that there is a place for 'recreational mourning;' it tends to kinda be an outlet for mourning of a more general kind, or where we can all join in mourning someone that we all had some superficial contact with in order to release grief about a person we did know personally. 

Like, say, 1000 years ago (or whatever - a long time before now, but after humans had civilisations, anyway), everyone in your social circle would know that particular young man who took too much of that particular herb and never woke up; today, it's unlikely that more that 100 people would all have that grief at the same time. 

1000 years ago you would all have mourned, had a wake, looked to whatever might lay beyond, and so on. People would know why you were sad - they'd exchange anecdotes, share tears. The grief was communal, acknowledged, and moved on from.

Now deaths are more isolated. The family mourns. The friends mourn. It's often separate, even if, by chance, they happen to be at the same funeral - and that's rare. 

But when someone famous dies, lots of people know who that person was and had some peripheral experience of them, and they're sorry that they died. So lots of people can grieve together, each individually thinking 'that's just like Joe, when he died of the same age.' and so on. 

Maybe they don't even think that on the surface, but that's what's happening. Or, at least, they can vent the feelings they had stored up from when they did lose someone, without it ever getting down to specific circumstances at all.

So the grief is shared, acknowledged, and moved on from.

This applies, too, even if the grief is nothing more than 'that's a shame.' Grief doesn't have to be knuckling-the-soil-in-eternal-torment-like pain. 

It is displacement, yeah - but not unhealthily so. 

The Diana mass-mourning_ was _creepy and untoward. Doesn't mean that every mourning of a famous person is the same.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 24, 2008)

I misread the thread and thought that Helen Lederer was dead. "That's a shame", I thought, despite never having met her. I don't give a flying fuck about Heath Ledger, though.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jan 24, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> and your not knowing who he was is relevant because...?
> 
> I'm basing my statement not on what I've read in the papers or something, but on what I've seen of his performance in the new Batman film, which looks absolutely brilliant, almost impossible to tell who the actor is (and not just because of the makeup), I can't think of another instance of an actor getting so completely buried in a character.



I don't get it.

Just because he is an actor we should all be in mourning?

You have never met the bloke.  He could be a right c*nt in real life.


----------



## xes (Jan 24, 2008)

I see the godhatesfags mob will be picketing his funeral. Scum bag wankers.


----------



## Chester Copperpot (Jan 24, 2008)

PacificOcean said:
			
		

> I don't get it.
> 
> Just because he is an actor we should all be in mourning?
> 
> You have never met the bloke.  He could be a right c*nt in real life.



 Not mourning, merely expressing a point that it's sad. When I walk through the town centre and see flowers piled up at a zebra crossing I spare a though for the person who's died. I didn't know them, they could have been a right C*nt as you put it, but I still spare them a thought and it makes me feel sad.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 24, 2008)

scifisam said:
			
		

> In other words: there was the hysteria over Diana, and there are mild expressions of regret over an actor dying. There is NO DIFFERENCE between the two. Both are evidence of brainwashing.



Drivel.  As said above, one is about the loss of a talent.


----------



## Chairman Meow (Jan 24, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Drivel.  As said above, one is about the loss of a talent.



Err I think scifisam's tongue was firmly in his cheek there.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 24, 2008)

PacificOcean said:
			
		

> I don't get it.
> 
> Just because he is an actor we should all be in mourning?
> 
> You have never met the bloke.  He could be a right c*nt in real life.



Who said we should 'all be in mourning'?

 

I'm not 'in mourning' in any way shape or form whatsoever. 

Merely gutted that the third Batman film won't be able to have the Joker in.

That's nothing remotely comparable with the ridiculous mass hysteria that greeted the death of everyone's favourite doe.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 24, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:
			
		

> Err I think scifisam's tongue was firmly in his cheek there.


Her!
Why can't people ever get posters' genders right?


----------



## Wookey (Jan 24, 2008)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Her!
> Why can't people ever get posters' genders right?



Alright, lassy, calm down.


----------



## Chairman Meow (Jan 24, 2008)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Her!
> Why can't people ever get posters' genders right?



No-one gets mine right either.


----------



## Reno (Jan 24, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Merely gutted that the third Batman film won't be able to have the Joker in.



There is no reason why we won't see the Joker again. Roles get recast all the time, especially in the Batman franchise.


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 24, 2008)

I was thinking about this last night. When my brother died, many people on here expressed condolences to me. Most of them don't know me, and none of them knew him. Yet I didn't see anyone pulling each other up over that. What's the difference?


----------



## The Groke (Jan 24, 2008)

PacificOcean said:
			
		

> I don't get it.



No, no you don't


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 24, 2008)

Reno said:
			
		

> There is no reason why we won't see the Joker again. Roles get recast all the time, especially in the Batman franchise.



Yeah but if the performance is as iconic as it looks, it probably won't...


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 24, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> I was thinking about this last night. When my brother died, many people on here expressed condolences to me. Most of them don't know me, and none of them knew him. Yet I didn't see anyone pulling each other up over that. What's the difference?



Well it is a mite difference as we do 'know' you on here.  But I sort of see your point all the same...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 24, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Yeah but if the performance is as iconic as it looks, it probably won't...


Joe Pasquale will step up. Don't worry.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 24, 2008)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Joe Pasquale will step up. Don't worry.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 24, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Yeah but if the performance is as iconic as it looks, it probably won't...


It's a tricky dilemma; on the one hand, Nolan was aiming for continuity between the films, so the Joker was going to feature quite heavily in the third one. On the other, he's just lost a friend - a friend who's given by all accounts the definitive performance in that role, so it's understandable that he might write the Joker out of the movie.

On the _other_ hand, there's the almighty dollar. And with The Dark Knight completed... well, what if the ending has Batman swearing to hunt the Joker down, or somesuch? In one sense the role's pretty easy to recast; it could be anyone under that makeup (indeed, my first thought when seeing Ledger in the role was, "Bugger me, I'm not seeing Heath Ledger, I'm seeing the Joker..."). However, all the advance word suggests that Ledger's knocked it out of the park with this one; are there any actors under 30 who'd feel up to taking on a dead actor who's delivered his best performance (probably) in his final role? If nothing else, it'd feel very ghoulish donning the same costume.

Which brings me to another point; how much leeway would another actor have to put his own spin on the role? If he doesn't, he runs the risk of seeming like a pale imitation of Ledger; if he does, he buggers up the continuity of the film franchise. I suppose in a sense this is no different to recasting Dumbledore in the Harry Potter franchise, though.

I reckon they'll be putting in some frantic calls to Johnny Depp, though. Yes, I know he's got 10 years on Ledger, but he doesn't really look it. And he's one of the few big-name actors who's chameleonic enough to take on the role. _And_ he's working on a film with Christian Bale at the moment. And you almost need a big-name actor to defuse the shock of what's happened.

This is assuming Nolan and Bale don't call it a day, of course.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 24, 2008)

re his performance as the joker , if it is a superb bit of acting , as in world class , could a dead person recieve an oscar ?


----------



## Reno (Jan 24, 2008)

ruffneck23 said:
			
		

> re his performance as the joker , if it is a superb bit of acting , as in world class , could a dead person recieve an oscar ?



It has happened a few times. Peter Finch won a posthumous Oscar for Network.


----------



## Wookey (Jan 24, 2008)

Chameleonic, eh?


----------



## Augie March (Jan 24, 2008)

ruffneck23 said:
			
		

> re his performance as the joker , if it is a superb bit of acting , as in world class , could a dead person recieve an oscar ?



Yep. Peter Finch won one for Network and James Dean was nominated twice as well. 

http://www.criticsociety.com/article.asp?id=64

It wouldn't suprise me if this does happen to Ledger next year, although superhero/blockbuster films are usually given a wide berth during the awards season, unless it's for special effects.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 24, 2008)

cheers , yeah i have a feeling he might end up being at least nominated


----------



## Reno (Jan 24, 2008)

...that's a lot of speculating for a performance nobody has even seen yet.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 24, 2008)

lol , true , i was going to add something like that at the end of my post.........


but from the trailers it looks to be something quite special......


----------



## Augie March (Jan 24, 2008)

Reno said:
			
		

> ...that's a lot of speculating for a performance nobody has even seen yet.



True. But Hollywood loves a happy ending, so an Oscar nomination really wouldn't suprise me next year.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 24, 2008)

Reno said:
			
		

> ...that's a lot of speculating for a performance nobody has even seen yet.


But we _have_ seen it. Well, some of it, anyway. There's a trailer.


----------



## Reno (Jan 24, 2008)

elevendayempire said:
			
		

> But we _have_ seen it. Well, some of it, anyway. There's a trailer.



Not sure I would jump to conclusions about Oscar wins on account of a few seconds in a trailer. 

I generally find it a bit strange how the death of a famous person leads to speculation overkill. In my office people talking about his death like they actually know the reasons/details when all the have done is to read The Sun.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 24, 2008)

scifisam said:
			
		

> The Diana mass-mourning_ was _creepy and untoward. Doesn't mean that every mourning of a famous person is the same.


I do think all of this falls within a subset of ‘celebrity culture’ (which, fwiw, is itself is a subset of consumerism); oh he’s getting married again, oh she’s put on a lot of weight, he’s had ‘some work’ done, she’s had a boob job, she's on that perfume advert, he's got a new book out, oh, he’s died . . .  better put the news on.

And once they've died, the (now) learned behaviour kicks in, beginning with  " . . . of his generation" through media-led candlelight vigils to endless biographies, Heath Ledger weekends on the TV and china tea set memorabilia.

Will his latest book/single/film get to Number One ??????


The bloke's got a family and friends to mourn him, he and they don't need all this bollocks - go and help out at the local charity shop or something.


----------



## treefrog (Jan 24, 2008)

A sad loss, he was a good actor and it looked like he could have been one of the greats. I'll go so far as to say I feel sorry for his daughter who'll grow up without him. And no, I won't be lighting any candles or anything, just posting this and getting on with my day, as I imagine the vast majority of people will. 

One of the things I really detest about this place is the way threads like this can't go up without people making the usual "but lots of other people died today/it's like Di all over again/you're pandering to the tabloids etc.etc." 

Very clever, we get it already. If reading people's thoughts on someone who's died pisses you off so much, then why not start a thread elsewhere? Or not read these threads in the first place? Just a thought, like...


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 24, 2008)

treefrog said:
			
		

> If reading people's thoughts on someone who's died pisses you off so much, then why not start a thread elsewhere? Or not read these threads in the first place? Just a thought, like...


Judging from the title, this isn't a mourning thread.

If reading a different point of view pisses you off, why don't you not read this thread?

If you want to mourn the guy in cyberspace,  why don't you start a thread?


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 24, 2008)

Quite. I dunno, while I acknowledge that I have no personal connection to the guy, it's still shocking when someone who - from my limited knowledge of them - seemed to be in good health. It wouldn't be hugely shocking if, say, Britney or Amy Winehouse was found dead; in Ledger's case it seems to have been a genuine accident. And the fact that he's playing such a ghoulish character for his final role makes it a little unsettling - especially given the suggestion that that role may have been indirectly responsible for his death (he'd buggered up his sleep patterns when playing the Joker, and had stated he'd been taking sleeping pills to try and get back to a normal sleeping pattern).

The irony is, the character of Ledger's Joker would probably laugh his head off at the public reaction to the actor's death. As the probably-doomed marketing campaign for the film says...







The Joker as disembodied actor-killing meme - now there's a Grant Morrison idea if ever there was one.


----------



## treefrog (Jan 24, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> Judging from the title, this isn't a mourning thread.
> 
> If reading a different point of view pisses you off, why don't you not read this thread?
> 
> If you want to mourn the guy in cyberspace,  why don't you start a thread?


Mourning thread? No. A thread about an actor who has has died, which (I naively assumed) would result in a discussion on the aforementioned actor and his work. Not a discussion on how anyone who says they are saddened by someone's death in this way is a vacuous moron.

This happens on urban nearly every time someone famous dies, and I just do not understand why. I'm sure there is a discussion to be had about why we empathise with people we don't know, but I'm sure it could be handled in a way that doesn't suggest that people who post up that they're sad to hear someone has died are dewey-eyed, flower-holding idiots. 

I can see your point of view, I just don't understand the vitriolic way you present it.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 24, 2008)

Just had a look at his performance on the Batman trailer.  Looks ace.  I was shocked when I found out how young he was.


----------



## innit (Jan 24, 2008)

treefrog said:
			
		

> Mourning thread? No. A thread about an actor who has has died, which (I naively assumed) would result in a discussion on the aforementioned actor and his work. Not a discussion on how anyone who says they are saddened by someone's death in this way is a vacuous moron.
> 
> This happens on urban nearly every time someone famous dies, and I just do not understand why. I'm sure there is a discussion to be had about why we empathise with people we don't know, but I'm sure it could be handled in a way that doesn't suggest that people who post up that they're sad to hear someone has died are dewey-eyed, flower-holding idiots.
> 
> I can see your point of view, I just don't understand the vitriolic way you present it.


^^^^ Agree with all that  

The anti-mourning stuff is so predictable it doesn't need to be said, and is a shining example of everything that can be bad about bulletin boards imo.


----------



## Reno (Jan 24, 2008)

elevendayempire said:
			
		

> And the fact that he's playing such a ghoulish character for his final role makes it a little unsettling - especially given the suggestion that that role may have been indirectly responsible for his death (he'd buggered up his sleep patterns when playing the Joker, and had stated he'd been taking sleeping pills to try and get back to a normal sleeping pattern).



That strikes me more like lazy journalism in the way tabloid rags always like to confuse/merge actors with their parts. I find speculations like this pointless and rather ghoulish.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 24, 2008)

treefrog said:
			
		

> Mourning thread? No. A thread about an actor who has has died, which (I naively assumed) would result in a discussion on the aforementioned actor and his work. Not a discussion on how anyone who says they are saddened by someone's death in this way is a vacuous moron.


The only time I've used "vacuous" was in relation to the cliched media reporting - emotions very obviously aren't vacuous.

I do, however, see the continuing growth of people allowing their emotions to become an adjunct of popular consumerism (albeit via celebrity culture) as a less than encouraging step.




			
				treefrog said:
			
		

> I can see your point of view, I just don't understand the vitriolic way you present it.


No vitriol. Here you seem inclined to focus on the poster rather than the content.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 24, 2008)

Reno said:
			
		

> That strikes me more like lazy journalism in the way tabloid rags always like to confuse/merge actors with their parts. I find speculations like this pointless and rather ghoulish.


Well, ghoulish as it is, there's definitely a quote from him where he mentions that playing the Joker had disrupted his sleep patterns, and that he was taking sleeping pills in an attempt to counteract that. I'd agree, though, that any speculation of that sort is premature until there's a proper coroner's report.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jan 24, 2008)

Sounds like a pretty lame excuse for his other problems TBH.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 24, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> I do think all of this falls within a subset of ‘celebrity culture’ (which, fwiw, is itself is a subset of consumerism); oh he’s getting married again, oh she’s put on a lot of weight, he’s had ‘some work’ done, she’s had a boob job, she's on that perfume advert, he's got a new book out, oh, he’s died . . .  better put the news on.
> 
> And once they've died, the (now) learned behaviour kicks in, beginning with  " . . . of his generation" through media-led candlelight vigils to endless biographies, Heath Ledger weekends on the TV and china tea set memorabilia.
> 
> ...



You didn't actually read my post, did you. 

I'm not sure what 'helping at a charity shop' has to do with anything. It's not as if anyone's saying that 'mourning' (if 'feeling a little bit sorry the death' about counts as 'mourning') is an act of charity intended to make the world a better place.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 24, 2008)

elevendayempire said:
			
		

> And the fact that he's playing such a ghoulish character for his final role makes it a little unsettling - especially given the suggestion that that role may have been indirectly responsible for his death (he'd buggered up his sleep patterns when playing the Joker, and had stated he'd been taking sleeping pills to try and get back to a normal sleeping pattern).
> .



So what supposedly happened: he accidentally took twenty or thirty of them by mistake, thinking that they were Pez?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 24, 2008)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> I do, however, see the continuing growth of people allowing their emotions to become an adjunct of popular consumerism (albeit via celebrity culture) as a less than encouraging step..





> His untimely death at age 31 propelled him into icon status with over 100,000 people attempting to attend his funeral.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Valentino


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 24, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> So what supposedly happened: he accidentally took twenty or thirty of them by mistake, thinking that they were Pez?


Pneumonia, coupled with mixing medicines. Apparently.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 24, 2008)

So he took pills and called a hooker?

Or was it a real masseuse?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 24, 2008)

DexterTCN said:
			
		

> So he took pills and called a hooker?
> 
> Or was it a real masseuse?


...and what's the Mary Kate Olson connection?

My personal first reaction upon hearing of the death of Heath Ledger: who the fuck is Heath Ledger?

Second reaction: who cares?


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 24, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> ...and what's the Mary Kate Olson connection?
> 
> My personal first reaction upon hearing of the death of Heath Ledger: who the fuck is Heath Ledger?
> 
> Second reaction: who cares?


It's got fuck all to do with Mary Kate whatsherface; the police on the scene mistakenly announced that it was her apartment, whereupon she hastily pointed out that she had no idea what they were talking about. Apparently.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 24, 2008)

elevendayempire said:
			
		

> It's got fuck all to do with Mary Kate whatsherface; the police on the scene mistakenly announced that it was her apartment, whereupon she hastily pointed out that she had no idea what they were talking about. Apparently.



Nah; I think it was Mary Kate's place.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 25, 2008)

So what about Terry Gilliam? Another film project shelved.. Its an amazing story this...


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 25, 2008)

>



where do I get that poster?


----------



## Reno (Jan 25, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> where do I get that poster?



Buy it on the internet.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 25, 2008)

Doh... they are going for nearly $100 on US ebay and around £50 a time on UK Ebay. Someone is selling postcards they printed of it themselves!!

the daily hate has plenty of salacious info on it - including the Lindsey Lohan connection


----------



## Reno (Jan 25, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> Doh... they are going for nearly $100 on US ebay and around £50 a time on UK Ebay. Someone is selling postcards they printed of it themselves!!



£18.47 here: 

http://www.moviemarket.co.uk/Posters/T109695_505821.html

I'm sure there is somewhere cheaper than that. Posters for current films are generally easy to get hold of.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 25, 2008)

Top link.. slightly Ghoulish I know. But this is the freakiest thing to happen to a film since 'The Crow'. And Batman films always have great art...


----------



## Wookey (Jan 25, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> So what about Terry Gilliam? Another film project shelved.. Its an amazing story this...




Poor bastard, he doesn't have much luck. I was really looking forward to that one, he's one of my favourite ever people and artists.


----------



## Reno (Jan 25, 2008)

Wookey said:


> Poor bastard, he doesn't have much luck. I was really looking forward to that one, he's one of my favourite ever people and artists.



Yes, he must be the director with the worst luck in film history. 

Was also looking forward to this one.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 25, 2008)

innit said:


> The anti-mourning stuff is so predictable it doesn't need to be said, and is a shining example of everything that can be bad about bulletin boards imo.



Quite.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 25, 2008)

Holy Moly are saying he might have had pneumonia but not known about it, that's pretty tragic.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> You didn't actually read my post, did you.


How can I respond to that?

If you want to say ‘I don’t think you grasped my main point’ then we’d have something to work with.


----------



## CharlieAddict (Jan 28, 2008)

interesting words from the Ultimate Warrior on Ledger's death:



> After all, Leather Hedger did what it took to kill himself. His kid is without a father, yes, but the negative influence is now removed and his own child has the chance for a full recovery.



http://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2008/124/edge_314446.shtml


----------



## The Groke (Jan 28, 2008)

CharlieAddict said:


> interesting words from the Ultimate Warrior on Ledger's death:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2008/124/edge_314446.shtml



*reads full article*

WTF?


WTF?


WTF?


----------



## g force (Jan 28, 2008)

Ultimate Warrior has become a bit of a weirdo evangelist/motivational guru. It's all gone far beyond parody.


----------



## Augie March (Jan 28, 2008)

What. A. Cunt.

Bizzare too, that he uses the whole story to have a totally random pop at Hulk Hogan for _not _being dead.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 28, 2008)

Right, never mind that twunt, here's some words from The Dark Knight director Chris Nolan:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/105580


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2008)

The Ultimate Warrior?! WTF. hahaha..ha haa..


----------



## Vixiha (Jan 28, 2008)

treefrog said:


> A sad loss, he was a good actor and it looked like he could have been one of the greats. I'll go so far as to say I feel sorry for his daughter who'll grow up without him. And no, I won't be lighting any candles or anything, just posting this and getting on with my day, as I imagine the vast majority of people will.
> 
> One of the things I really detest about this place is the way threads like this can't go up without people making the usual "but lots of other people died today/it's like Di all over again/you're pandering to the tabloids etc.etc."
> 
> Very clever, we get it already. If reading people's thoughts on someone who's died pisses you off so much, then why not start a thread elsewhere? Or not read these threads in the first place? Just a thought, like...


Well said.  It makes me sick when people are clearly expressing sadness or even just the slightest regret and suddenly inconsiderate pricks start crawling out of the woodwork.  btw, who the fuck is this dream girl asshole anyway? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 They're all in the same league as the "GodHatesFags" cunts, as far as I'm concerned. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I don't expect most people to know who he was or even give a rat's ass but neither do I understand why some people find it necessary to say such insensitive crap.  I can't count how many times I've seen threads for deceased UK celebrities I've never heard of but it would never occur to me to say, "Never heard of 'im/her.  I couldn't care less," or, "Why do any of you care?  You never met him/her!"  

That's just unbelievably rude, not to mention socially retarded.  If you're not capable of feeling sadness over the death of someone you've never met, talk to your shrink about it.  Questioning people about their sincerity or discounting the significance of their feelings, only moments after they've expressed sadness/pain/regret, isn't the appropriate time.


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Jan 28, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> Well said.  It makes me sick when people are clearly expressing sadness or even just the slightest regret and suddenly inconsiderate pricks start crawling out of the woodwork.  btw, who the fuck is this dream girl asshole anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



top post vix. 

and that vvvv too.


----------



## Vixiha (Jan 28, 2008)

When I learned of Heath Ledger's death, my heart skipped a beat, I felt stunned for a moment, followed by a deep sense of sorrow for his family and friends.  I had seen most of his films and enjoyed his performances in all of them, especially Brokeback Mountain.  I've seen it at least four times and it always leaves me with a tear-streaked face.  

The news of his death was such a shock, I reflected upon his impressive accomplishments and read some things I hadn't realized about him.  

Heath was just a 14 year old boy when my oldest son was born, and he was just getting a good start on his film career.  Now my boy is 14 and in that short time, Heath's star burned so brightly it couldn't last.  He impressed most who saw him as a fine actor; it's such a tragic loss to his family, friends, fans, and the film industry.  Those of us who do give a shit, are left to wonder what might have been.    

I've never heard anyone say anything but good things about his personality; he was apparently a very friendly and thoughtful person, as well as a loving father so, I'm glad his daughter will, at least, have that, along with so many wonderful films in which she can watch him perform, hear his voice, see his smile, and hopefully, get some sort of feel for what kind of man her dad was.


----------



## Vixiha (Jan 28, 2008)

MightyAphrodite said:


> top post vix.
> 
> and that vvvv too.


ty


----------



## Wookey (Jan 29, 2008)

Needed to be said, some people are socially retarded.


----------



## Augie March (Feb 6, 2008)

Accidental overdose it is then. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7231084.stm


----------



## dream_girl (Feb 6, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> btw, who the fuck is this dream girl asshole anyway?






Who the fuck am I? Good question. Whoever I am, glad I'm not you.


----------



## Maggot (Feb 6, 2008)

dream_girl said:


> Who the fuck am I? Good question. Whoever I am, glad I'm not you.


 I'm glad i'm not you.  I'd hate to have no compassion.


----------



## dream_girl (Feb 6, 2008)

Maggot said:


> I'm glad i'm not you.  I'd hate to have no compassion.



I have deep compassion - just none to spare for some Hollywood brat who overdosed himself to death. 

Have none of you got a real life? Why else do you all feel the need to grieve for a bloody actor?


----------



## chazegee (Feb 6, 2008)

With this media saturation though, how did he hide that he was a bit of a caner?


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Feb 6, 2008)

Augie March said:


> Accidental overdose it is then.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7231084.stm



Aww.  How sad.  Someone like this dies on prescription drugs and that twat Doherty lives on 

No justice.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Feb 6, 2008)

chazegee said:


> With this media saturation though, how did he hide that he was a bit of a caner?



By pretending that it was all about absorption into the Joker role


----------



## chazegee (Feb 6, 2008)

RenegadeDog said:


> By pretending that it was all about absorption into the Joker role



'Tis the ultimate 'scuse I suppose.


----------



## Detroit City (Feb 6, 2008)

Augie March said:


> Accidental overdose it is then.



how does one "accidentally" take an overdose of numerous prescription pills?  this report is bullshit.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 6, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> how does one "accidentally" take an overdose of numerous prescription pills?  this report is bullshit.



Well, you wouldn't try to kill yourself by taking the safe dose of lots of different kinds of pills.  You'd at least have heavy overdoses of several of them.


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 6, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> how does one "accidentally" take an overdose of numerous prescription pills?  this report is bullshit.


He took the correct doses but they were not compatible with each other and, in combination, became toxic.

Lots of people, especially the elderly, take dozens of prescriptions a day but their doctors usually make sure the meds are compatible.

I doubt he expected to die from a few pills he'd been prescribed.

If he actually wanted to die, just as 8ball said, he'd probably have taken more than he did.


----------



## phildwyer (Feb 6, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> He took the correct doses but they were not compatible with each other and, in combination, became toxic.
> 
> Lots of people, especially the elderly, take dozens of prescriptions a day but their doctors usually make sure the meds are compatible.



He was presumably taking them for recreational purposes.  Still sad though.


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 6, 2008)

dream_girl said:


> I have deep compassion - just none to spare for some Hollywood brat who overdosed himself to death.
> 
> Have none of you got a real life? Why else do you all feel the need to grieve for a bloody actor?


You say that as though he was a synthetic being.  He was in fact a human being and, apparently a very kind man.  As an actor, he became a familiar face for those of us who enjoyed his talent.

That being said, I doubt anyone on this thread was sincerely grieving to the point of taking time from work, and even if they were, they would probably have very personal reasons.  

If you can't understand that, read a book or speak to a professional about it but it is highly inappropriate to ridicule other people's feelings, whatever they may be, and doing so strongly suggests emotional immaturity.

Perhaps you're just very young or perhaps you are a wind-up-merchant out on the troll.  I've seen enough of your posts now to guess it's both.





phildwyer said:


> He was presumably taking them for recreational purposes.  Still sad though.


Indeed.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 7, 2008)

phildwyer said:


> He was presumably taking them for recreational purposes.  Still sad though.



I got the impression he was taking them to get to sleep, figuring a synergistic effect would happen without them becoming a fatal CNS depressant.


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

8ball said:


> I got the impression he was taking them to get to sleep, figuring a synergistic effect would happen without them becoming a fatal CNS depressant.


That's what I thought too.


----------



## Detroit City (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> He took the correct doses but they were not compatible with each other and, in combination, became toxic..



sorry but no 27 year old healthy male is going to die from taking the normal average doses of 4 or 5 medications that are incompatible.


----------



## ethel (Feb 7, 2008)

ummm..but that's what the toxicology report has found.


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> sorry but no 27 year old healthy male is going to die from taking the normal average doses of 4 or 5 medications that are incompatible.



over time its certainly possible obviously...even in short time mixing scripted drugs can be fatal to ANYONE...and it can be as accidental as anything.

toxins from them can add up over time too i think.

people should take the autopsy results as they are.

they were preformed by doctors like im sure.


----------



## Detroit City (Feb 7, 2008)

MightyAphrodite said:


> over time its certainly possible obviously...even in short time mixing scripted drugs can be fatal to ANYONE.....



yea maybe to a 60 year old who has multiple maladies

look, the guy committed suicide ok?  it happens all the time


----------



## Detroit City (Feb 7, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> ummm..but that's what the toxicology report has found.



do you really think they are telling you what really happened?


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> yea maybe to a 60 year old who has multiple maladies



i swore i wasnt gonna get into this thread!!...i saw enough when it was started...

but c'mon man, ANYONE can die from a bad mixture of prescription drugs.

surely you don't really think that's impossible.


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> =
> 
> look, the guy committed suicide ok?  it happens all the time



what?

how the fuck do you *know *that??????


----------



## 8ball (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> look, the guy committed suicide ok?  it happens all the time



It does happen all the time, but very few people do it by FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTIONS ON THE FUCKING BOTTLE!!!!


----------



## ethel (Feb 7, 2008)

why don't you believe that accidents happen? is everything a big conspiracy?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 7, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> why don't you believe that accidents happen? is everything a big conspiracy?



tbf suicide isn't much of a conspiracy


----------



## Detroit City (Feb 7, 2008)

MightyAphrodite said:


> how the fuck do you *know *that??????



how do you know he didn't?


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> how do you know he didn't?



i dont...

but the burden of proof isn't on me, i've made no unfounded statement saying he *DID* or *DIDNT *do anything.

you seem confident that you know thats what happened...so how do you know?


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Mixing just 2 medications can be lethal, depending on what they are, especially if one of them is an MAO Inhibitor.

The meds he took were commonly used and seemingly benign.

He said the sleeping pills weren't working.

So he combined a few meds, not realizing the consequences, especially knowing how many young people take massive doses of pills with no apparent problems other than maybe a hangover.

It's utterly ridiculous, to say the least, to state, as if you know it to be a fact, that he committed _suicide_!

If he WANTED to die, he would have obviously taken more than the prescribed dose.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

MightyAphrodite said:


> what?
> 
> how the fuck do you *know *that??????



Looking at his pictures, he looked like a modern day Montgomery Clift.


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Looking at his pictures, he looked like a modern day Montgomery Clift.


Maybe so.  He may have been a big caner or whatever they call it but the toxicology report says his death wasn't caused by an excessive dose of anything.  It's not an overdose, really, as much as a toxic combination.  

It may just be me but I find it offensive when people start throwing around the S word, as if it's simply a benign little matter-of-fact.

That would be one of the biggest drawbacks of being a celebrity.  If something happens to you, your loved ones are forced to listen to all sorts of jokes and cruel comments about you just thrown around without a thought for how it might hurt your family or friends.

I hope nobody who actually knew him ever comes here.


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm no celebrity, of course, but if something were to happen to me, I don't know that I'd want my family reading what some people might say on here.

There are some real assholes that just cannot STFU.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> Maybe so.  He may have been a big caner or whatever they call it but the toxicology report says his death wasn't caused by an excessive dose of anything.  It's not an overdose, really, as much as a toxic combination.  .



It's just not usual for younger people to die suddenly, even after a lot of hard caning.


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> It's just not usual for younger people to die suddenly, even after a lot of hard caning.


No, but he was on at least one antidepressant.  I'm not sure which one but, if it was an MAO Inhibitor, those fuckers are potentially lethal with lots of things, including alcohol, other antidepressants, amphetamines, antihistamines like Unisom, opioids like Oxycontin, or even St. John's Wort, among others.  

In some combinations, they can also cause insomnia, restlessness, and anxiety, which were all things he claimed to suffer from.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> or even St. John's Wort, among others.  .



I thought that st johns wort was a MAO inhibitor.


----------



## madzone (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> I'm no celebrity, of course, but if something were to happen to me, I don't know that I'd want my family reading what some people might say on here.
> 
> There are some real assholes that just cannot STFU.


Don't worry about Dream Girl - 'she's' just a badly disguised returnee.


----------



## madzone (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> do you really think they are telling you what really happened?


Why wouldn't they?


----------



## dream_girl (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> it but it is highly inappropriate to ridicule other people's feelings, whatever they may be, and doing so strongly suggests emotional immaturity.



well, not really.

Possibly I envy the fact that people have time to spend thinking about the deaths of celebs. 

My view is that they're not people that I should know about. I resent that the celeb worshipping culture is snowballing and people talk about them like they're our friends. 

Now - I have grieved for people in the recent past. I have had to cut myself off from reading reports of the deaths in Iraq because they're so harrowing. There is no emotional immaturity here.


----------



## Maggot (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> do you really think they are telling you what really happened?


Why would they want to lie and cover something up?


----------



## baldrick (Feb 7, 2008)

Augie March said:


> Accidental overdose it is then.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7231084.stm



it makes it worse knowing he didn't intend to kill himself


----------



## Wookey (Feb 7, 2008)

dream_girl said:


> I have had to cut myself off from reading reports of the deaths in Iraq because they're so harrowing. There is no emotional immaturity here.



Ignoring someone's death because you can't handle it doesn't suggest emotional immaturity?

Blimey.

*learns something new*


----------



## Wookey (Feb 7, 2008)

baldrick said:


> it makes it worse knowing he didn't intend to kill himself



Yup. 

Makes me never want to take pills again, tbh.


----------



## boskysquelch (Feb 7, 2008)

Maggot said:


> Why would they want to lie and cover something up?



see River's royalties.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 7, 2008)

Wookey said:


> Ignoring someone's death because you can't handle it doesn't suggest emotional immaturity?
> 
> Blimey.
> 
> *learns something new*


Don't be a patronising cunt, it's beneath you.

She might mean 700,000-a million civilian deaths over 4-5 years is a draining experience if you care about what is done in your name.

As opposed to Heath Fucking Ledger - please feel free to shove your moral high ground where you keep your vigil candles and back issues of Hello!.


----------



## dream_girl (Feb 7, 2008)

London_Calling said:


> Don't be a patronising cunt, it's beneath you.
> 
> She might mean 700,000-a million civilian deaths over 4-5 years is a draining experience if you care about what is done in your name.
> 
> As opposed to Heath Fucking Ledger - please feel free to shove your moral high ground where you keep your vigil candles and back issues of Hello!.





Thankyou


----------



## Wookey (Feb 7, 2008)

London_Calling said:


> Don't be a patronising cunt, it's beneath you.



It's really not.

Dream_girl seems intent on minimising Heath Ledger to the level of 'a celeb'  - as though he were a talentless Big Brother entity who is famous simply for being famous. The fact is he was an artist, who interpreted stories and characters and represented them to us in a way which could truly effect us and our relationship with the outside world.

No-one would act surprised if your favourite novelist died, and all their future novels died with them, and you mourned this loss both to your own spirit and the wider world. No-one would say we were over-reacting if our favourite modern painter died aged 28, and all their potential masterpieces died with them.

When some of us mourn Heath Ledger, we are mourning the loss of all his potential work, his fantastic talent at communication. To reduce him to the status of 'a celeb' is to misunderstand why he was famous, and also falsely label him with the 'fame for fame's sake' that was anti-thesis to his personality.

It appears to me that his anxiety pills, sleeping pills and such were an antidote to the fame he had to endure in order to make his art - another tragedy perpetrated by all those numbskulls who can only relate to artists with the language and dynamics they have learned from cheap, re-usuable 'stars' like Paris Hilton.

For Dream_girl to reduce her condemnation to perplexion at our 'having the time to grieve' him rings a little hollow when one counts the number of times Dream_girl has herself contributed to this thread, which is considerably more than me.

And to try and prove her own emotional maturity by stating she has to physically turn away from the mass murder we are perpetrating in Iraq is misguided at best, in my opinion. One cannot prove emotional maturity in that way, without conversely implicating everyone who has the courage and will to stand witness to such heinous events as being emotionally _immature_, can you?


----------



## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

London_Calling said:


> Don't be a patronising cunt, it's beneath you.
> 
> She might mean 700,000-a million civilian deaths over 4-5 years is a draining experience if you care about what is done in your name.
> 
> As opposed to Heath Fucking Ledger - please feel free to shove your moral high ground where you keep your vigil candles and back issues of Hello!.


I never realized how hypocritical and insensitive you were until this thread.  I would say you could feel free to shove your self-righteous ego where your respect of other people's feelings should be but I see dream girl has already planted himself there.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 7, 2008)

Wookey said:


> No-one would act surprised if your favourite novelist died, and all their future novels died with them, and you mourned this loss both to your own spirit and the wider world. No-one would say we were over-reacting if our favourite modern painter died aged 28, and all their potential masterpieces died with them.


I'm sure she can answer for herself on the points you make about her posts, but the above is a more generic point, though one always made in these circumstances: 'the world has lost a great artist' i.e. the James Dean argument that's rolled out every time by the meed-ya.

I suppose we differ but he's another pov; Heath Ledger did a job well, and lots of other people who have a serious influence over our lives do their job well - like the person responsible for Tube maintenaince, for example, or the flight controllers at Heathrow. Gawd bless you, whoever you are.

But someone else could do that job, probably differently but probably as well as this bloke currently is. Ditto Heath fucking Ledger. He wasn't Einstein or Berners-Lee, he wasn't even Hendrix or Terry Pratchett.

He was a fine actor, and now another fine actor will get a chance he wouldn't otherwise of had. Life goes on, leave Ledger to his friends and family. IMO.


----------



## Wookey (Feb 7, 2008)

London_Calling said:


> I'm sure she can answer for herself on the points you make about her posts, but the above is a more generic point, though one always made in these circumstances: 'the world has lost a great artist' i.e. the James Dean argument that's rolled out every time by the meed-ya.
> 
> I suppose we differ but he's another pov; Heath Ledger did a job well, and lots of other people who have a serious influence over our lives do their job well - like the person responsible for Tube maintenaince, for example, or the flight controllers at Heathrow. Gawd bless you, whoever you are.
> 
> ...



I think the point about being an artist is that with every piece of work you do, you bring to it the sum of all your previous experiences, your relationships, and your unique view of the world, distilled and concentrated through your own mind.

So while you're right when you say there will only ever be one Pratchett, one Hendrix, one Mozart, I think this extends to any artist who has touched people with their work. There will only ever be one Heath Ledger. Another actor _could_ have done the job, but it wouldn't have been the same job - in the same way another writer could write a Discworld novel, but they wouldn't be Terry Pratchett.

Whether Ledger was as useful as a Tube attendant or Einstein is debatable, surely - it depends on which you value more; your Tube journey, your understanding of relativity - or your soul.

Art nurtures the soul, or the spirit if you wanna call it that - and the best art enables us to relate to this crazy place we call the world. 

For a young closeted gay lad watching Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and realising perhaps for the first time that his secret sexuality need not condemn him to a lonely life, but could in fact hold the key to real love, real companionship, true acceptance and parity with another human being who accepts you entirely for what you are, then to that lad, at least, Heath Ledger is more important than any Tube engineer, or Nobel-winning physicist, or brain surgeon.

_You_ might not appreciate Ledger's art, it might not have changed your life, it might not have made you into the person you always wanted to be - but it has to someone. It would have done to me, if Derek Jarman hadn't got there first.


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## London_Calling (Feb 7, 2008)

Wookey said:


> For a young closeted gay lad watching Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, and realising perhaps for the first time that his secret sexuality need not condemn him to a lonely life, but could in fact hold the key to real love, real companionship, true acceptance and parity with another human being who accepts you entirely for what you are, then to that lad, at least, Heath Ledger is more important than any Tube engineer, or Nobel-winning physicist, or brain surgeon.


No !

You know yourself that isn't correct. Any debt you owe is to Annie Proulx first, then Larry McMurtry, then a number of people including Ang Lee, and finally - miles down the road  the actor doing a 'unique' job in the sense that every single actor does a 'unique' job every time they act - is  Mr Ledger.

Really, I should sum this up with 'seriously, get a grip, mate ' because there really isn't much else to say.


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## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Sharing your opinion is completely different from attacking or ridiculing other people's feelings and accusing them of not having a life, etc.

No one here is suggesting they should have a front row seat to his funeral.  The fact that you do not feel a sense of loss for an actor does not mean our feelings of sorrow aren't genuine and valid.  Saying otherwise is very insensitive and inappropriate.  

I've never spent numerous hours watching the person responsible for Tube maintenance.  I've never connected his face or voice with feelings of mystery, intrigue, romance, or joy.  I've never shared his pain or passion.  If I had, I'm certain I would feel a sense of sorrow for his death too, but I'm sure you & dream girl would feel free to pipe in about how stupid or meaningless those feelings were as well.  

You're both being really big dicks.


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## Wookey (Feb 7, 2008)

London_Calling said:


> No !
> 
> You know yourself that isn't correct. Any debt you owe is to Annie Proulx first, then Larry McMurtry, then a number of people including Ang Lee, and finally - miles down the road  the actor doing a 'unique' job in the sense that every single actor does a 'unique' job every time they act - is  Mr Ledger.
> 
> Really, I should sum this up with 'seriously, get a grip, mate ' because there really isn't much else to say.



Not at all, I disagree. Annie Proulx wrote a short story that never registered on me at all, Ang Lee made a film the cinematography of which I barely recall. What I recall are the faces and voices of Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, they made those roles their own. I don't think they were accidental players, or bit parts in a larger whole.

In the same way, when I think of Hannibal Lecter, I don't think of a minor suspense/crime novel I read on a train journey once. I think of Anthony Hopkins.


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## Wookey (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> No one here is suggesting they should have a front row seat to his funeral.  The fact that you do not feel a sense of loss for an actor does not mean our feelings of sorrow aren't genuine and valid.  Saying otherwise is very insensitive and inappropriate.



I completely agree. Let's get this into perspective - Ledger had a public role, and leaves a public mark, and his public have every right to feel sad, and have that recognised, from a human point of view, as well as an artistic one.

People still lay guitar picks for Hendrix, strawberries for Lennon, carnations for Wilde - to some people Ledger spoke just as loudly as they did in what he created on screen.


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## London_Calling (Feb 7, 2008)

<edit> Later


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## kerb (Feb 7, 2008)

dream_girl said:


> Possibly I envy the fact that people have time to spend thinking about the deaths of celebs.



or like you who has the time to even talk (actually no, thats not a word id describe for you), who has the time to blurt your feelings on a internet board.


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## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

great posts wookey and vix...agree totally.


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## scifisam (Feb 7, 2008)

kerb said:


> or like you who has the time to even talk (actually no, thats not a word id describe for you), who has the time to blurt your feelings on a internet board.



I always do love the irony of people talking about others who take the time to talk about famous people/books, etc. etc., even when they're taking at least as much time to criticise said people. 

If anyone were grieving Heath Ledger in the same way that they'd grieve a personally-known loved one, I'd say that's a bit over the top and probably indicates displacement (they're grieving for him because he's the public face of their own personal losses). But saying 'that makes me feel sad,' or words to that extent - that's not over the top at all. 

I happened to use the Heath Ledger death articles in my classes the week he died, because they were a good example of how different papers approach the same story. To my surprise, most of my students, from around the world, had heard of him. He seems to have had more impact than you'd expect.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> No, but he was on at least one antidepressant.  I'm not sure which one but, if it was an MAO Inhibitor, those fuckers are potentially lethal with lots of things, including alcohol, other antidepressants, amphetamines, antihistamines like Unisom, opioids like Oxycontin, or even St. John's Wort, among others.
> .



Even so, there are a lot of people taking antidepressants out there; usually, they don't die.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Even so, there are a lot of people taking antidepressants out there; usually, they don't die.



I think there's a doctor out there that needs to lose his license.  One of six prescriptions mentioned that he had was for Oxycontin.  That's a heavy duty pain drug not normally prescribed for sleeping problems.  I believe it is a schedule 3 narcotic and is normally used for terminal cancer patients.  No reason that a reasonably healthy 27 yr old should be taking it by prescription.


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## Detroit City (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Even so, there are a lot of people taking antidepressants out there; usually, they don't die.



the newer class of antidepressants generally won't kill you from a major overdose.


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## scifisam (Feb 7, 2008)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I think there's a doctor out there that needs to lose his license.  One of six prescriptions mentioned that he had was for Oxycontin.  That's a heavy duty pain drug not normally prescribed for sleeping problems.  I believe it is a schedule 3 narcotic and is normally used for terminal cancer patients.  No reason that a reasonably healthy 27 yr old should be taking it by prescription.



It does seem odd, but maybe there's a reasonable explanation for it: he had a condition that we don't know about (well, we, who didn't know the man personally, don't know about it; maybe his family did) or he had more than one doctor and didn't think to keep them properly informed about which other medications he was taking. 

It is funny just how adamant people can be about it being suicide or an accident with recreational drugs, just because he was an actor. Accidents do happen. The people who performed the autopsy would be in rather a lot of trouble if they lied. 

I guess there's the possibility that some other people might be more careful about checking their medications now, and not have the same accident happen to them. 

With more and more drugs being prescribed for more and more conditions (esp. if you have good private health insurance), plus more people willing to resort to over-the-counter remedies, it's more likely to happen than it once was.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 7, 2008)

scifisam said:


> It does seem odd, but maybe there's a reasonable explanation for it: he had a condition that we don't know about (well, we, who didn't know the man personally, don't know about it; maybe his family did) or he had more than one doctor and didn't think to keep them properly informed about which other medications he was taking.



I'd go for the "he had more than one doctor prescribing meds" theory.  That's reasonable.   

And lets face it, if you have money, you can get a prescription for anything you want.


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## Wookey (Feb 7, 2008)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I'd go for the "he had more than one doctor prescribing meds" theory.  That's reasonable.
> 
> And lets face it, if you have money, you can get a prescription for anything you want.



That was the conclusion we came to at me mum's.


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## 8ball (Feb 7, 2008)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> And lets face it, if you have money, you can get a prescription for anything you want.



Yep, that was my theory too.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> the newer class of antidepressants generally won't kill you from a major overdose.



I know: MAO inhibitors aren't that common anymore.


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## FabricLiveBaby! (Feb 7, 2008)

The other thing about american prescriptions (and correct me if I am worng) is that pharmasutical companies are allowed to advertse their meds aggressivly to the general pulic and doctors.  I think (and plase correct me) that sometimse surgeries are aggresicvley advertised to.  A mug here, and mouse pad there with drug of choice on,  and said drug sticks in doctors brain adn gets prescribed more.  Horrible tactic.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Feb 7, 2008)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> The other thing about american prescriptions (and correct me if I am worng) is that pharmasutical companies are allowed to advertse their meds aggressivly to the general pulic and doctors.  I think (and plase correct me) that sometimse surgeries are aggresicvley advertised to.  A mug here, and mouse pad there with drug of choice on,  and said drug sticks in doctors brain adn gets prescribed more.  Horrible tactic.




One of the reasons that healthcare costs are out of control.


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## kerb (Feb 7, 2008)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> The other thing about american prescriptions (and correct me if I am worng) is that pharmasutical companies are allowed to advertse their meds aggressivly to the general pulic and doctors.  I think (and plase correct me) that sometimse surgeries are aggresicvley advertised to.  A mug here, and mouse pad there with drug of choice on,  and said drug sticks in doctors brain adn gets prescribed more.  Horrible tactic.



after reading your post i just thought of those scenes from 'requiem for a dream' where the mother  goes to the doctors and he gives her diet pills. He just looked at the clipboard and didnt look at her once, asking questions robotically... i remember when i watched it i thought he might have been an "agent" of the pharmasutical world


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## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Even so, there are a lot of people taking antidepressants out there; usually, they don't die.


Regardless, it doesn't appear to be a deliberate suicide and, even if it was, it wouldn't diminish the sorrow over his death.  If anything, it might add to the degree of regret and sympathy for his family and friends.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> Regardless, it doesn't appear to be a deliberate suicide and, even if it was, it wouldn't diminish the sorrow over his death.  If anything, it might add to the degree of regret and sympathy for his family and friends.



No doubt, but I can't see any reason to somehow sugar coat the facts of his life, nor of his death. Most celebrities don't get such a free ride: why should he?


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## scifisam (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> No doubt, but I can't see any reason to somehow sugar coat the facts of his life, nor of his death. Most celebrities don't get such a free ride: why should he?



How is going with the report of the autopsy 'sugar-coating' someone's death?


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## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

scifisam said:


> How is going with the report of the autopsy 'sugar-coating' someone's death?



its not...and how is he getting a free ride?

hes dead, i think that more than pays for whatever debt his 'ride' (???!!!) should be.

i wish theyd close this thread.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

scifisam said:


> How is going with the report of the autopsy 'sugar-coating' someone's death?



The networks pulled back from showing the 'drugs' video, for example.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

For comparison purposes, think of the death of Anna Nicole Smith.


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## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> No doubt, but I can't see any reason to somehow sugar coat the facts of his life, nor of his death. Most celebrities don't get such a free ride: why should he?


I don't see any reason to sugar coat anything either but neither do I see a reason to state matter-of-fact that it was a deliberate suicide when the medical examiner says otherwise.

I don't see that he's getting a free ride at all; there are all sorts of terrible things being said about him.  This thread is a good example.

The guy died and suddenly the tabloids break out videos of him supposedly acting nervous or admitting he used to smoke a lot of pot.  I understand it's how tabloid shows make money but, what's the point?  Other than to capitalize on his death, of course.





Johnny Canuck2 said:


> The networks pulled back from showing the 'drugs' video, for example.


Ha!  They claim to pull it out of respect for the man and his family but, not before talking about it, of course.  It's not as if they actually cancelled a pre-planned program; they were only going to play it for ratings until they realized they could still make money while pretending to be sensitive.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> The guy died and suddenly the tabloids break out videos of him supposedly acting nervous or admitting he used to smoke a lot of pot.  I understand it's how tabloid shows make money but, what's the point?  Other than to capitalize on his death, of course.Ha!  They claim to pull it out of respect for the man and his family but, not before talking about it, of course.  It's not as if they actually cancelled a pre-planned program; they were only going to play it for ratings until they realized they could still make money while pretending to be sensitive.



The videos didn't run on the major media; mostly on the internet.

They weren't so circumspect when Anna Nicole Smith died. Maybe as a blonde woman, she was less deserving of respect than a 'serious male actor'.


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## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2;7080774]For comparison purposes said:


> The videos didn't run on the major media; mostly on the internet.
> 
> They weren't so circumspect when Anna Nicole Smith died. Maybe as a blonde woman, she was less deserving of respect than a 'serious male actor'.



I was just as disgusted by that display.  Vultures is all that comes to mind there.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> They claim to pull it out of respect for the man and his family but, not before talking about it, of course.  It's not as if they actually cancelled a pre-planned program; they were only going to play it for ratings until they realized they could still make money while pretending to be sensitive.



The reason they pulled the video, was that there was a barrage of calls from agents saying that their clients wouldn't do any more interviews if it was aired.

Once again, where was that solidarity when Anna Nicole Smith died?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> I was just as disgusted by that display.  Vultures is all that comes to mind there.



I agree that it's disgusting, but it pisses me off when they tread more lightly with someone like Heath Ledger, because he was 'serious'.

He was an actor who made big money from being a celebrity, just like the rest of them.


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## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

anna nicole smith was a trainwreck, did you ever see her reality show, it WAS just as badly sensationalised etc yeah, agreed....

but i dont compare the 2.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 7, 2008)

MightyAphrodite said:


> anna nicole smith was a trainwreck, did you ever see her reality show, it WAS just as badly sensationalised etc yeah, agreed....
> 
> but i dont compare the 2.



From what little we heard about Ledger, it doesn't sound like his life was a bed of roses either, but it's being suppressed, unlike Smith, where they threw it all on the floor for us to gorge on.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> The reason they pulled the video, was that there was a barrage of calls from agents saying that their clients wouldn't do any more interviews if it was aired.
> 
> Once again, where was that solidarity when Anna Nicole Smith died?



The ridicule and prurience started before she died, too.


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## MightyAphrodite (Feb 7, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The ridicule and prurience started before she died, too.



yeah.



Johnny Canuck2 said:


> From what little we heard about Ledger, it doesn't sound like his life was a bed of roses either, but it's being suppressed, unlike Smith, where they threw it all on the floor for us to gorge on.



actually SHE was pretty open about what her life was like, when she was alive, dont you think?

no ones life is a bed of roses i dont suppose.


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## Vixiha (Feb 7, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> The reason they pulled the video, was that there was a barrage of calls from agents saying that their clients wouldn't do any more interviews if it was aired.
> 
> Once again, where was that solidarity when Anna Nicole Smith died?


Selective loyalty.  Anna Nicole was famous for being an easy target for public ridicule; she never made it to the "inner circle".

I hated her show; it made her look like such a fool.  Regardless of her lack of intellect or talent, nobody should be looked upon that way.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 8, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The ridicule and prurience started before she died, too.



Think about the 'trainwreck actors' that we get in the media. Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, that britsh singer, you know 'rehab', anna nicole, Britney etc.

Funny how we don't get big daily headline splashes about the male trainwrecks. I'd be surprised if at least some of those hollywood male actors don't mess up from time to time.

Of course, it's happened. Look at Robert Downey, Charlie Sheen. But the number of females reported is many times that of males. There is always a female hollywood fuckup in the news.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 8, 2008)

Vixiha said:


> Selective loyalty.  Anna Nicole was famous for being an easy target for public ridicule; she never made it to the "inner circle".
> 
> I hated her show; it made her look like such a fool.  Regardless of her lack of intellect or talent, nobody should be looked upon that way.


No, I was never convinced that the fact that she was a "willing" participant to her being ridiculed for being fucked up on drink and drugs really made it any better. You know, given that she was fucked up on drink and drugs at the time.

Pretty much par for the course for E! mind you.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 8, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Think about the 'trainwreck actors' that we get in the media. Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, that britsh singer, you know 'rehab', anna nicole, Britney etc.
> 
> Funny how we don't get big daily headline splashes about the male trainwrecks. I'd be surprised if at least some of those hollywood male actors don't mess up from time to time.
> 
> Of course, it's happened. Look at Robert Downey, Charlie Sheen. But the number of females reported is many times that of males. There is always a female hollywood fuckup in the news.



Male stars rarely have a "clean" image beforehand, but mind you, that in itself isn't accidental. Men don't _need_ to.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 8, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Male stars rarely have a "clean" image beforehand, but mind you, that in itself isn't accidental. Men don't _need_ to.



Que?


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 8, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Que?



Male media personalities have much more leeway as to acceptable public images. They don't have to be either squeaky clean or sluts.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 8, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Male media personalities have much more leeway as to acceptable public images. They don't have to be either squeaky clean or sluts.



I think that's true, and that's why it's deemed 'inappropriate' for the media to go on about Ledger's drug use etc, because hey: boys will be boys.

But if it had been Heather Ledger, look out.


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