# New Series of Dr Who



## strung out (Apr 2, 2010)

well this starts tomorrow on easter saturday

the people i know who have seen this reckon it's brilliant, apparently matt smith is very different to tennant's doctor, and the new companion is hot too.

looking forward to this, though i don't think the gf is too happy at being forced to watch it with me and the family tomorrow.


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## Balbi (Apr 2, 2010)

bring it ooooooooooooooon


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2010)

excited


It had better be good. Hopefully we'll get a redesign on the TARDIS


bring back the dys when it looked like steve jobs designed it!


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## strung out (Apr 2, 2010)

new tardis interior


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2010)

that's not a wild departure but I deem it acceptable. He was apparently in n'pton recently but I couldn't find where or when. V. annoying.


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## strung out (Apr 2, 2010)

he was at your old school yesterday or the day before wasn't he?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2010)

FUCK. I was going to get a book signed


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## strung out (Apr 2, 2010)

think they were doing a tour of a few places including smith and karen gillan's old schools. my brother was with them in manc on tuesday i think and think they were off to northampton after that


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 2, 2010)

strung_out said:


> think they were doing a tour of a few places including smith and karen gillan's old schools. my brother was with them in manc on tuesday i think and think they were off to northampton after that



They were certainly at Smith's (and therefore DC's) school - I think Thursday. Was all over Look East (or maybe it was Newsround, or maybe it was both?) - screaming children, lots of grins and apparently a screening.

The ginger assistant in a police woman's uniform as well iirc...


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## FiFi (Apr 2, 2010)

strung_out said:


> new tardis interior



Oh my eyes!
That will take some getting used to.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 2, 2010)

Dr Who is shit and is for children and even children think it is shit.


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 2, 2010)

Dead inside.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> Dr Who is shit and is for children and even children think it is shit.



good to see you conforming to hierarchal notions of what is for whom. Scratch a liberal...


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> good to see you conforming to hierarchal notions of what is for whom. Scratch a liberal...



... and you will find a Dr Who fan.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2010)

No, find a tory. You that is. Saying what is for whom. Like some literary/art massa cracking your big whip.


I refuse to be oppressed by the fascism of the Litterati! I shall overcome!


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## nicksonic (Apr 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> No, find a tory. You that is. Saying what is for whom. Like some literary/art massa cracking your big whip.
> 
> 
> I refuse to be oppressed by the fascism of the Litterati! I shall overcome!



doctor who is one of the last bastions of creative television that makes me think 'yay, television'.

nice v1.1 haircut btw DC


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2010)

Not sure about that new tardis, but I think it's good they've changed it. The previous version suited Ecclestone's doctor a lot better than Tennant's IMO. From the little I've seen of this new lad he seems a bit hyperactive and 'wacky' so I guess that's what they've gone for...


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## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not sure about that new tardis, but I think it's good they've changed it. The previous version suited Ecclestone's doctor a lot better than Tennant's IMO. From the little I've seen of this new lad he seems a bit hyperactive and 'wacky' so I guess that's what they've gone for...



Post-regeneration doctors are like that. The complete conversion of your entire persona and body is likely to make one a tad manic.

He will settle in.


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## nicksonic (Apr 3, 2010)

as i said.


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## nicksonic (Apr 3, 2010)

strung_out said:


> new tardis interior



HATE!


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## nicksonic (Apr 3, 2010)

error.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 3, 2010)

That new tardis looks well shit. It was better when they painted on fake 3d walls.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2010)

oh fuck off, you will watch it and bitch like you are the second coming but it will be mint


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 3, 2010)

He even looks like a cocky little school boy in that pic.


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> He even looks like a cocky little school boy in that pic.



That's pretty much what he should be isn't it?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 3, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> That's pretty much what he should be isn't it?



Why?

Anyway I don't really mind. When I was a child I loved Dr Who. Now that I am an adult I have great nostalga for pretty much the only show I thought was worth watching. But it was pretty shit. 
Its back and its still shit but I'm not a child anymore. 

Some eps have been ok. I'm hoping the new guy and the new writers are good. I had no real love for Tennant as who, though I do  like Tennant.

That new Tardis looks beyond shit though. Ugh.


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## strung out (Apr 3, 2010)

9 hours to go!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 3, 2010)

I will be on a plane.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2010)

'Hes on a plane. He can't complain'


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why?



I thought that was the way he was looking to play the part - the most important thing is that he's different from Tennant. It's not as if he's not be played in a mad sort of way before, or cocky.


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

The revised theme tune is bobbins.


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

And has this child just let a soaking wet stranger into her home?


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Melinda said:


> The revised theme tune is bobbins.


Yup.



Melinda said:


> And has this child just let a soaking wet stranger into her home?


It was a simpler time...


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Do policewomen really wear skirts that short


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

It was a simpler time...


Foxy redhead!


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

I knew something was up, that red bail varnish was all wrong too. _I_ should be fuckin' polis.

New Doctor still has to find his way, in more ways than one.


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

Yup. The pacing is soooo off.


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## agricola (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Do policewomen really wear skirts that short



No


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Weak male that I am, I think she may allow me to tolerate him


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

You cant blame Matt for the story. Bobbbbbbbbbbins.


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## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

Bit disappointing this one


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

No, but I can blame him for, y'know, him. Obviously it's gonna take a few eps to get into it but I really don't think he's found 'his' Doctor yet (40 mins in  ). Tennent and Davies were a very lucky combination of writer and actor, don't think we've got the same thing here.


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

@nightowl- A bit disappointing?!! 

Steven Moffat has always been reiable before...


Why wouldnt they have started with a big slamming first episode. Boooo.


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## yardbird (Apr 3, 2010)

I think it's quite jolly


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## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

Melinda said:


> @nightowl- A bit disappointing?!!
> 
> Steven Moffat has always been reiable before...
> 
> ...



You're right, it's crap actually


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Of bloody course, every bloody baddie knows some great secret that they have to give some cryptic fucking clue about  

Fuck's sake...


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Interesting, they included McGann's Doctor.


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## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

I think the boy did well and ginge is perty.


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## emanymton (Apr 3, 2010)

Well I thought that was not bad


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 3, 2010)

Surprised by the reaction. I thought that was pretty good.


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## Stigmata (Apr 3, 2010)

I thought it was brilliant!

I dunno what it is about Urban that turns people into such miseryguts


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## Balbi (Apr 3, 2010)

Boy done good imo. Good intro story, just got to ramp up the 'different' character traits - between Ecclescake and Tennant it was easier, but this'll take nuance. Like Amelia Pond.


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## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I thought it was brilliant!
> 
> I dunno what it is about Urban that turns people into such miseryguts



Sittin starin at a computer all day?


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## emanymton (Apr 3, 2010)

Some of the future stuff looks good to. Are those women in night dresses weeping angels before they are made of stone? Is the doctor going to create the weeping angels?


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

I think a lot of it for me is "he's not Tennant", which is admittedly somewhat unfair. The trouble is he seems to be _trying_ to be Tennant, at least at the moment. Like I said, I just didn't get any sense of what Doctor he was, he seemed a bit generic to be honest


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 3, 2010)

He's still cooking.


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

Am not a miseryguyts! 

I felt the story lacked substance and the pacing was waaaay off, which meant in lots of places it lagged.


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 3, 2010)

Melinda said:


> Am not a miseryguyts!
> 
> I felt the story lacked substance and the pacing was waaaay off, which meant in lots of places it lagged.


 
It's a children's programme about an alien. Made in Cardiff. What the buggery do you expect? 

Miseryguts.


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## emanymton (Apr 3, 2010)

For all those complaining think back to that awful blob's of fat that kicked of the last series, 100 times better than that.


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## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I thought it was brilliant!
> 
> I dunno what it is about Urban that turns people into such miseryguts



Interesting statement in reaction to some people not enjoying a particular episode of a tv programme


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> I think the boy did well and ginge is perty.



^ this. It was pretty good, setting some stuff up nicely. Different from Tennant which was clearly the main thing.

Companion designed to appeal to the Dads.


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## Stigmata (Apr 3, 2010)

Melinda said:


> Am not a miseryguyts!





Pacing was fine I thought, and the plot was secondary to establishing the new characters as is standard for a season opener (and come on, this was waaaay better than the Adipose and Hospital-on-Moon episodes). Lots of great lines, creepy bad guy. Totally bought into the new Doctor- didn't miss Tennant at all.


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## 8den (Apr 3, 2010)

Melinda said:


> The revised theme tune is bobbins.



I like it. Vaguely retro.


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

emanymton said:


> For all those complaining think back to that awful blob's of fat that kicked of the last series, 100 times better than that.


You can't compare a random episode of a previous series to a curtain-opener like this! 



BlueSquareThing said:


> ^ this. It was pretty good, setting some stuff up nicely. Different from Tennant which was clearly the main thing.


In what way was he different to Tennant?


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## Stigmata (Apr 3, 2010)

nightowl said:


> Interesting statement in reaction to some people not enjoying a particular episode of a tv programme



I rest my case


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## janeb (Apr 3, 2010)

I thought it had some suitably scary moffat moments - the door, the looking out of the corner of your eye stuff, the children's perspective, the woman and the 2 daughters speaking etc.

I enjoyed it very much, think he'll be a good doctor, the first episode of a new Dr are always a bit odd, but I wasn't distracted by how young he is so that's good,


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## kained&able (Apr 3, 2010)

First time i have ever watched dr who. God that was shit, I've seen better acting in hollyoaks, and better special effects in umm red dwarf.

And fuck all that slightly surreal stuff in the tardis, oh look taps and a type writer wow thats witty, sub par hitch hikers guide to the galaxy and i'm talking the film rather then the books, quintessentially english but quite quite shite.

Is that the normal standard of dr who?

dave


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Pacing was fine I thought, and the plot was secondary to establishing the new characters as is standard for a season opener (and come on, this was waaaay better than the Adipose and Hospital-on-Moon episodes)


Wait, was the Adipose a season-opener? Oh crap, I think it was...

Whoops


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## 8den (Apr 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I thought it was brilliant!



I liked it. I kept ranting about her pants that she looked like a stripper until 

I hate the new tardis though, too many bits looks a bit like willy wonka's boat meets the time machine.


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## janeb (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Interesting, they included McGann's Doctor.



Is generally included as cannon, hence this one is the 11th Dr


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

kained&able said:


> And fuck all that slightly surreal stuff in the tardis, oh look taps and a type writer wow thats witty


Mmm, that rankled with me too, bit too self-conscious I thought.


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## emanymton (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> You can't compare a random episode of a previous series to a curtain-opener like this!



It was the curtain-opener so  to you!


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## Balbi (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Wait, was the Adipose a season-opener? Oh crap, I think it was...
> 
> Whoops





My sister was knocking Pond's mini-skirt and shit radio, and did to the length that she was still bitching and missed the 'kissagram' reveal bit


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## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 3, 2010)

That was really pretty good. Matt Smith turns out to be a rather engaging Doctor, and Amy is well, lovely.


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## scifisam (Apr 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I thought it was brilliant!
> 
> I dunno what it is about Urban that turns people into such miseryguts



I wondered if you'd be around this weekend! 

Anyway, I agree - it was a really good episode. The story was interesting, the new characters are likeable and Amelia/Amy has a backstory with some potential, and there were some lines that made me laugh. It would all have been better with Tennant, but this boy did OK too. 

The new theme tune really is bloody awful and some of the pacing was off, but nothing's perfect.

ETA: I'd fed up of steampunk styling too, but it's not the worst thing ever.


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> In what way was he different to Tennant?



The much more obvious flirty side/bit less in control - with Tennant you always felt he was really in control. Not sure about this one. Use of tech was interesting as well.

Maybe I'm wrong - maybe he was v similar. Felt different to me though fwiw.


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## DexterTCN (Apr 3, 2010)

I enjoyed it.  Plenty of humour, confidently done.

Loads of humour, in fact.


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

emanymton said:


> It was the curtain-opener so  to you!


Well that was earnt


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## 8den (Apr 3, 2010)

janeb said:


> Is generally included as cannon, hence this one is the 11th Dr



And not the first time he's appeared on the new series.


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> The much more obvious flirty side/bit less in control - with Tennant you always felt he was really in control. Not sure about this one. Use of tech was interesting as well.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong - maybe he was v similar. Felt different to me though fwiw.


Tennant _wasn't_ flirty?!


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

janeb said:


> I thought it had some suitably scary moffat moments - the door, the looking out of the corner of your eye stuff, the children's perspective, the woman and the 2 daughters speaking etc.
> 
> I enjoyed it very much, think he'll be a good doctor, the first episode of a new Dr are always a bit odd, but I wasn't distracted by how young he is so that's good,



My five year old never really watched it before - he always felt it was his big brothers programme and he was too little for it.

He loved it - the wide eyes and slightly terrified looks at the scary bits were perfect. For that reason alone I liked it.


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## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> You can't compare a random episode of a previous series to a curtain-opener like this!
> 
> In what way was he different to Tennant?



Less gurning?


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Tennant _wasn't_ flirty?!



Not as obviously as that was he?


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

janeb said:


> Is generally included as cannon, hence this one is the 11th Dr





8den said:


> And not the first time he's appeared on the new series.


Aye, I keep forgetting he's generally accepted, I always thought he was a bit "Never Say Never Again".


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## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> ^ this. It was pretty good, setting some stuff up nicely. Different from Tennant which was clearly the main thing.
> 
> Companion designed to appeal to the Dads.



She did her job.


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## DexterTCN (Apr 3, 2010)

You can't compare up to Tennant in just one episode.


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## janeb (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Aye, I keep forgetting he's generally accepted, I always thought he was a bit "Never Say Never Again".



No, rather oddly that's Peter Cushing


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> Less gurning?


Smith's whole face is a gurn! (Gosh, that's a bit mean...)



BlueSquareThing said:


> Not as obviously as that was he?


huh, I was actually a bit surprised you thought Smith was flirty and thought Tennant blatently was - clearly we have different interpretations of the whole issue


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> You can't compare up to Tennant in just one episode.


Of course not, which is what I said somewhere up there ^, but my problem with it was it seemed _he_ wasn't distancing himself enough from Tennant.

Clearly going by this thread I'm in the minority, for once


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 3, 2010)

Moffat's minority agenda is at least more subtle than RTD's was. The fry ups, Pond's surfeit of pheomelanin - easy to ignore.


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## Stigmata (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Of course not, which is what I said somewhere up there ^, but my problem with it was it seemed _he_ wasn't distancing himself enough from Tennant.
> 
> Clearly going by this thread I'm in the minority, for once



I thought he seemed pretty fresh, but I read in an interview with the actor that the plan was for the Doctor to evolve as the series progresses and become more distinctive.


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## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Tennant _wasn't_ flirty?!



If I was stuck in a police box with martha I'd do more than flirt


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I thought he seemed pretty fresh, but I read in an interview with the actor that the plan was for the Doctor to evolve as the series progresses and become more distinctive.


I'm sure he will, and that makes sense, I just thought there should be more of a distinction to kick off with, especially coming after such a Doctor as Tennant's, who is arguably this generation's Doctor (thus far).


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

nightowl said:


> If I was stuck in a police box with martha I'd do more than flirt



Martha!? 

I can think of five other companions I'd rather. And that includes K9...


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## scifisam (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> I'm sure he will, and that makes sense, I just thought there should be more of a distinction to kick off with, especially coming after such a Doctor as Tennant's, who is arguably this generation's Doctor (thus far).



Tennant's Doctor took a couple of episodes to find his feet too - it takes a while for the old Doctor's personality to wear off.


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## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Martha!?
> 
> I can think of five other companions I'd rather. And that includes K9...



doggystyle?


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Tennant's Doctor took a couple of episodes to find his feet too - it takes a while for the old Doctor's personality to wear off.


I dunno, I caught Tennant's first episode yesterday and he was fairly Tennant-ish (if a little sketchy in areas). As I said, I think a lot of it was that Tennant's style worked very well with Davies' writing and so it seemed a better fit all round. I never thought Ecclestone seemed comfortable with the humour elements of the writing.


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## Scaggs (Apr 3, 2010)

I thought it was great. Wasn't expecting to like the new Doctor but, after a dodgy start with spitting the food out, he grew on me. Nicest companion in years. Kids loved it too.


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## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> I dunno, I caught Tennant's first episode yesterday and he was fairly Tennant-ish (if a little sketchy in areas). As I said, I think a lot of it was that Tennant's style worked very well with Davies' writing and so it seemed a better fit all round. I never thought Ecclestone seemed comfortable with the humour elements of the writing.



Some of the ecclestone stuff was great but I found him a touch too hammy. The 'i've been great' regeneration was cringeworthy


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## Melinda (Apr 3, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Tennant's Doctor took a couple of episodes to find his feet too - it takes a while for the old Doctor's personality to wear off.



The show has enjoyed some great major transition episodes. 

See now, I loved Chris Ecclestone- he had a powerful presence. I thought Id miss him immediately, but Tennant had a good first eipsode in The Christmas Invasion. The story was strong.

I really enjoyed the Smith and Jones episode which introduced Martha. 

The Runaway Bride was an exciting start for Donna too. 

This was more Adipose in quality. The story was a jumble of ideas previously used on other episodes.


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## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Moffat's minority agenda is at least more subtle than RTD's was. The fry ups, Pond's surfeit of pheomelanin - easy to ignore.



Can this post be debeaned for me?


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## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Martha!?
> 
> I can think of five other companions I'd rather. And that includes K9...



Martha was well fit you div.


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

There did seem to be a rather distinct lack of threat from 'Prisoner Zero' until right at the end. "I'm gonna stand here and bark, and bare my teeth a bit" "Righto, we'll just walk out the door then. And then past the door"

And then at the end: "Wait, come back so I can tell you how cool I am and invoke the history of the Doctor for no apparent reason other than to do that"

Oh, and it's just properly occured to me how Hitchhiker's the whole "this planet's gonna be blown up from above" it all was.

I didn't hate all of it, really


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> Martha was well fit you div.


Don't you think she was a bit... boring?


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## AverageJoe (Apr 3, 2010)

I thought he was good, but she was great 

nom


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## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Don't you think she was a bit... boring?



We're not exactly thinking of an evening of good conversation are we?


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 3, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> Can this post be *debeaned* for me?


 
And could someone help me with Rip Van Whatsisface's returner slang from yesteryear?


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## scifisam (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> There did seem to be a rather distinct lack of threat from 'Prisoner Zero' until right at the end. "I'm gonna stand here and bark, and bare my teeth a bit" "Righto, we'll just walk out the door then. And then past the door"
> 
> And then at the end: "Wait, come back so I can tell you how cool I am and invoke the history of the Doctor for no apparent reason other than to do that"
> 
> ...



Prisoner Zero wasn't supposed to be the main threat, surely? That was the aliens above (which isn't something that can really be accredited to H2G2 - it's just a science fiction trope).


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> I thought he was good, but she was great
> 
> nom


It's shameful how much I agree with this (apart from him being good )  I'm such a sucker for a redhead 



nightowl said:


> We're not exactly thinking of an evening of good conversation are we?


Well, _you_ might not be


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## ginger_syn (Apr 3, 2010)

Enjoyed that,looks promising,smith should grow into the part nicely.
b.t.w Dr who was created as a family show to appeal to a wide age range.


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## DexterTCN (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> I'm sure he will, and that makes sense, I just thought there should be more of a distinction to kick off with, especially coming after such a Doctor as Tennant's, who is arguably this generation's Doctor (thus far).


There can't be much argument about that.   It was built up over years though...generations aren't as long as they used to be.


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Prisoner Zero wasn't supposed to be the main threat, surely? That was the aliens above (which isn't something that can really be accredited to H2G2 - it's just a science fiction trope).


Yeah, I'll possibly concede that, but I don't think that threat was particularly well handled either. All seemed a little... all over the place.

I'm starting to irritate myself now, I hate being this negative about stuff 

Did I mention I thought Amy was good


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## Epona (Apr 3, 2010)

I enjoyed that.  Had a horrible feeling that I would hate the new Doctor, but actually he was alright.


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## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> There can't be much argument about that.   It was built up over years though...generations aren't as long as they used to be.


No of course, but that's why I think there should have been a clearer distinction.

Even in terms of appearance, you had Ecclestone's short hair, leather jacket and jeans transform into Tennant's longer, floppier hair (which admittedly became spiker with age...), brown overcoat, suit and tie and Converse. This time there wasn't as distinct a change - similar (_similar_ ) hair, brown suit and shirt, bow tie instead of long one. I didn't notice his shoes.

Should have been wearing a football shirt or a kimono or summat


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 3, 2010)

I enjoyed it. I think he'll make a good doctor.

What is it about Doctor Who that turns us all into expert acting critics?

Anyway, I was disappointed with the whole 'gorge fit hot companion' thing. I'd love it if they mixed it up a bit. It'd be cool if he'd taken Jeff with him.*

Looking forward to the rest of the series. And oooh, really looking forward to the episode(s?) with Alex Kingston 


*Am I the only one who felt a bit of homoerotic tension there? Yes? Oh well, my fantasy, my imaginary homoerotic tension.


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## BlueSquareThing (Apr 3, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> Martha was well fit you div.



Hmm 

Maybe. But K9 was a right dirty bitch when he put his mind to it.


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## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> And could someone help me with Rip Van Whatsisface's returner slang from yesteryear?



You're the one whose lingo has mutated during 5 years in a bean bubble. It's me who's been in the real world all that time.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> What is it about Doctor Who that turns us all into expert acting critics


What on Earth makes you think it was Dr. Who that did it


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I enjoyed it. I think he'll make a good doctor.
> 
> What is it about Doctor Who that turns us all into expert acting critics?
> 
> ...



And, of course, the sonic screwdriver that River Song has in series 4 appears to be the same one that the TARDIS just gave the Doctor to replace the one that blew up, so Perhaps it's Smith's Doctor who marries the old strumpet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> You're the one whose lingo has mutated during 5 years in a bean bubble. It's me who's been in the real world all that time.



Projection.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 3, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> And, of course, the sonic screwdriver that River Song has in series 4 appears to be the same one that the TARDIS just gave the Doctor to replace the one that blew up, so Perhaps it's Smith's Doctor who marries the old strumpet.



Orly? I missed that. Jolly good. I love Alex Kingston.

I still would have preferred Smith to take Jeff/Rory as his new companion.

/homoeroticfantasy

I wonder how long it'll be before someone writes that slash?


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 3, 2010)

Theme music - awful. New Tardis - a bit overdone. New Doctor - hammed it up a bit, but still reckon he could turn out a good un. Amy - excellent. Storyline - not as good as I'd expect from Moffat, initial attempts at humour went on for far too long.
So overall, I'm undecided, see how the series pans out.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2010)

I like Matt. He is a good doctor, so far.

we will see. Judgement is suspended but probation is well and truly passed


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Interesting, they included McGann's Doctor.



he is still cannon even though the special was not so good


----------



## ernestolynch (Apr 3, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Projection.



If you like. Bet one of us has more changes in the past 5 yrs.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 3, 2010)

Thank god you're back to save us, frankly.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> he is still cannon even though the special was not so good


 Although I'd agree about the special, I've always been slightly disappointed McGann didn't do more live action stuff, he could have been interesting.

Speaking of, where does Grant's animated Doctor sit in the cannon?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2010)

not TV= Not Cannon

This does also include the Peter Cushing films as not cannon.

But there is so much Who outside of the cannon that you just have to go 'ah well it is a time traveling bloke in a police box'


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 3, 2010)

It's as the camera company, or the priest (from whose status it derives, of course), not as the artillery piece.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 3, 2010)

I am not doing well on this thread


----------



## fogbat (Apr 3, 2010)

My mate lives in Cardiff, and his flat was in shot several times during the episode. I was wandering around that "village green" area just yesterday


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 3, 2010)

I enjoyed it, new Doctor seems good and as for Amy, phwoar


----------



## killer b (Apr 3, 2010)

he was good. looking forward to the rest of the series.

i also concur with the 'want to slip amy a length' thing.


----------



## dolly's gal (Apr 3, 2010)

amy and who are both sexalicious, which makes this series about a zillion times more watchable than the last. still a massive bag of shit though


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2010)

That was okay. Needle in the yellow on the Who-Deus-Ex-Machina-Meter but not in the red, and whatsisname not too annoying despite his weird frankenstein face. Not an episode that people are going to remember in ten years' time but a decent enough start to the series.

Fucking iPlayer fucking saying "not enough bandwidth" and stuttering all through the last fifteen minutes though, the cunt


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2010)

serves you right for not watching it on normal tele


----------



## London_Calling (Apr 3, 2010)

Prisoner Zero would have fitted in perfectly on an Urban walk, in fact he may have been on a few.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> serves you right for not watching it on normal tele



No signal and no licence.


----------



## nightowl (Apr 3, 2010)

fogbat said:


> My mate lives in Cardiff, and his flat was in shot several times during the episode. I was wandering around that "village green" area just yesterday



Where was it?


----------



## zoooo (Apr 3, 2010)

dolly's gal said:


> amy and who are both sexalicious, which makes this series about a zillion times more watchable than the last. still a massive bag of shit though



You find this Who attractive but not the last?


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 3, 2010)

I thought it was OK.

The complete refresh made it watchable


----------



## fogbat (Apr 3, 2010)

nightowl said:


> Where was it?



Llandaff village, just next to the cathedral.

Was watching it and thinking "I had a spliff just there, last night"


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 3, 2010)

liked it more than i thought i would.  seems to have taken a swing back in the direction of kids' programming (been watching some of the later tennants on iplayer recently. The stuff with donna? the suicide at the end of waters of mars?  very bleak.)

I straight up love(d) tennant. sexy as all fuck. so wasn't expecting to take to this doctor so well... but it think he's pretty cool.  watched 'confidential' afterwards, and i think partly it's because - although he's very young, he's incredibly self assured.  and while tennant, when you watch him doing takes or whatever, you see the acting process - the separation between actor and charcter - i really felt smith is just quite a bizarre young man and that's who we see as the doctor.

differences?  tennant's doc was more extrovert: a charmer, charisma by the bucketload, laconic and sarky.  smith's doc is more personal in his communications - eccentric and sincere, bit stroppy.  they're similar but smith's doc isn't a copy... as moffat said on cionfidential, they are the same man.  it helps for me to think: the scripts should be written for the same character, but the style of delivery will differ.


----------



## moomoo (Apr 3, 2010)

The 10 year old and I approve of the new Doctor and Amy.  That is all.


----------



## 8den (Apr 4, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Hmm
> 
> Maybe. But K9 was a right dirty bitch when he put his mind to it.



You've been reading way too disturbing slash fan fic. And I've seen the worst in the world.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> liked it more than i thought i would.  seems to have taken a swing back in the direction of kids' programming (been watching some of the later tennants on iplayer recently. The stuff with donna? the suicide at the end of waters of mars?  very bleak.)
> 
> I straight up love(d) tennant. sexy as all fuck. so wasn't expecting to take to this doctor so well... but it think he's pretty cool.  watched 'confidential' afterwards, and i think partly it's because - although he's very young, he's incredibly self assured.  and while tennant, when you watch him doing takes or whatever, you see the acting process - the separation between actor and charcter - i really felt smith is just quite a bizarre young man and that's who we see as the doctor.
> 
> differences?  tennant's doc was more extrovert: a charmer, charisma by the bucketload, laconic and sarky.  smith's doc is more personal in his communications - eccentric and sincere, bit stroppy.  they're similar but smith's doc isn't a copy... as moffat said on cionfidential, they are the same man.  it helps for me to think:* the scripts should be written for the same character, but the style of delivery will differ.*




as it ever has been with Who.

A doctor can be defined by his evil counterpart, the Master. Tennant had his Simms, Pertwee his Delgado. The doc is generally defined when facing his worst enemies. Remember ecclestons sheer terror when he first encountered a Dalek? That was good who. 

What I really enjoy is that they have alluded to something from the books that I love. THE TARDIS IS FUCKING MASSIVE and psychically linked to the doc as well. Libraries and swimming pools aint the half of it. Cloister bells anyone?

I'd love to see a TARDIS focused episode from new boy and I think me may well be in for one. The sheer size of the pocket universe inside that box has been emphasised in this episode so I reckon we may well see some TARDIS based episode.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Apr 4, 2010)

I thought Mgann was NOT canon. The montage of drs was the only bit of the episode at which I I felt that old Whovian tingle; for my demographic? - whatever that is - but overall I enjoyed the show. 

Mgann is my fave DR. 'cos the radio stuff is wicked and better then the TV stuff


----------



## zoooo (Apr 4, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd love to see a TARDIS focused episode from new boy and I think me may well be in for one. The sheer size of the pocket universe inside that box has been emphasised in this episode so I reckon we may well see some TARDIS based episode.



Thank goddddd. I've been complaining about no inside TARDIS action for years!
They never even mentioned off-hand the fact there are many rooms! It's been so annoying.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 4, 2010)

Better than I thought it would be. The plot was a bit straightforward but it was all about introducing the new doctor and companion really so that's understandable. Edited down to the usual 45-odd minutes it would have been great I reckon.

New title sequence is a load of arse though


----------



## janeb (Apr 4, 2010)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> I thought Mgann was NOT canon. The montage of drs was the only bit of the episode at which I I felt that old Whovian tingle; for my demographic? - whatever that is - but overall I enjoyed the show.
> 
> Mgann is my fave DR. 'cos the radio stuff is wicked and better then the TV stuff




Mcgann is cannon, you only get to 11 doctors if you include him: hartnell,troughton,  pertwee,baker,davidson,baker,McCoy,mcgann,eccleston,tennant and smith.

I'd go the whole hog and include Cushing as well but he's excluded as movie based only


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2010)

I liked the WLK (Weird Looking Kid).  He's a good Doctor.   He has a confidence about him that's very attractive, I think.  So, I'm very happy so far.  

As for the episode, it was good in parts, but not top notch.  Some very good lines though.  I'm happy about that, too.  Good lines make up for shit looking spacecraft.  And those eye-crystal things did look a bit rubbish.

The assistant lassie will turn out well, too.  She can act, has presence, and strong character.  Her youth worried me before I saw the episode, but she's going to be good, I think.

So, overall, I'm very happy with this.  Good good.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 4, 2010)

So we're calling McGann's outing a TV movie then are we? Because I'm pretty sure it's been referred to as some kind of movie (and _without_ value judgements  ).


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 4, 2010)

Couldn't really get into the episode yesterday, ended up turning the channel but it was only the first so wont give up hope on this series just yet!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> So we're calling McGann's outing a TV movie then are we? Because I'm pretty sure it's been referred to as some kind of movie (and _without_ value judgements  ).


It was a TV movie.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 4, 2010)

I've always found it a slightly curious distinction, but fair enough 

To be honest I'm quite glad he's considered canon as I enjoyed his Doctor, if not so much the film itself.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 4, 2010)

Really wish mcgann stayed for the tv series, would've been great.


----------



## nightowl (Apr 4, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> I've always found it a slightly curious distinction, but fair enough
> 
> To be honest I'm quite glad he's considered canon as I enjoyed his Doctor, if not so much the film itself.



I'll have to take another look at the tv movie some time just to see what he was like. Can't remember his character too much. Probably spent too much time being appalled by the whole americanised mess around him


----------



## janeb (Apr 4, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> So we're calling McGann's outing a TV movie then are we? Because I'm pretty sure it's been referred to as some kind of movie (and _without_ value judgements  ).



Yes, tv movie as opposed to cushing's film movie, which was also a retelling of a story or so mr jb insists is the critical difference


----------



## smokedout (Apr 4, 2010)

6 year old says wicked, better than the old one


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 4, 2010)

Pfft, what does a 6 year old know about Dr. Who


----------



## golightly (Apr 4, 2010)

smokedout said:


> 6 year old says wicked, better than the old one


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 4, 2010)

I thought it was quite good. To be fair it normally takes a few episodes for a new writing and acting team to get bedded in, and I'm optimistic it's only going to get better, especially given that Moffat has proven himself in the past. The new Doctor is likeable and fun, and good looking, he's got something for everyone. 

Amy Pond is gorgeous, and I think is going to be a good assistant, hopefully we'll see more of her outfits as the series goes on, especially the nun one.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 4, 2010)

Tennat's Dr says goodbye to Rose and Mum in 2005, staggers to the Tardis and regenerates - still in 2005 - and the Tardis blows up and starts to crash.

Smith's Dr is first seen still crashing, still in 2005. Crash lands in Amy's garden. 

Fast forward 12 years which makes it 2017. Events of 11th Hour occur.

Fast forward 2  years which means it's "now" 2019. 

Tennant's "now" was always the same year it was broadcast. Will Smith's "now" be 2019 and counting, which it Amelia's "now"?

Also, is the hospital location the same one as in Spearhead From Space? I haven't had a chance to dig it out and compare but it looks like it.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 4, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Tennat's Dr says goodbye to Rose and Mum in 2005, staggers to the Tardis and regenerates - still in 2005 - and the Tardis blows up and starts to crash.
> 
> Smith's Dr is first seen still crashing, still in 2005. Crash lands in Amy's garden.
> 
> ...



 I admire the geekyness put in here.

It's possible. I mean the key series note were 'silence will fall' and the mumbojumbo I missed from the alien just before that, and that Jeff's laptop was made by MYTH with an interesting insignia. Both prominent in the episode.

I reckon given the age of the cooking kit in young Amelia's kitchen, the Tardis took a skip back in between careering towards Earth and hurtling across London in the opening scene - so we're around 2010-ish.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 4, 2010)

The precise details don't really matter (I know Patrick Moore is doing well for his age, but he'd be almost 100 in 2019). I think it still counts as the present day. Remember how vague they were about dates in the Pertwee years.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 4, 2010)

The preview of the series demonstrates that the BBC have thrown some serious budget wedge at Moffat.

Prove it or lose it


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 4, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> If you like. Bet one of us has more changes in the past 5 yrs.



I wouldn't know without checking my files.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 4, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Really wish mcgann stayed for the tv series, would've been great.



He's done several Radio 7 series as the 8th Doctor, mostly with Sheridan Smith as his (very mouthy) assistant.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> The precise details don't really matter (I know Patrick Moore is doing well for his age, but he'd be almost 100 in 2019). I think it still counts as the present day. Remember how vague they were about dates in the Pertwee years.



apropos of nothing, the re inclusion of UNIT in the modern Who was crap because they didn't have a Lethbridge-Stewart level of actor to carry it off.

They should cast someone good to represent UNIT if they want to have it back


----------



## nightowl (Apr 4, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> apropos of nothing, the re inclusion of UNIT in the modern Who was crap because they didn't have a Lethbridge-Stewart level of actor to carry it off.
> 
> They should cast someone good to represent UNIT if they want to have it back



And unit used to have one or two interesting characters like sgt benton rather than being just a bunch of faceless goons with guns


----------



## London_Calling (Apr 4, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked the WLK (Weird Looking Kid).  He's a good Doctor.   He has a confidence about him that's very attractive, I think.  So, I'm very happy so far.


A bit Billy Elliot I thought.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 4, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Tennat's Dr says goodbye to Rose and Mum in 2005, staggers to the Tardis and regenerates - still in 2005 - and the Tardis blows up and starts to crash.
> 
> Smith's Dr is first seen still crashing, still in 2005. Crash lands in Amy's garden.
> 
> ...



I'm fairly sure he crashlanded in the past, not in 2005. I cant remember what exactly made the childhood scenes look like they were from the nineties, but in the grown-up scenes all the technology and phones and so on were very 2010. 

You could be right about the hospital - it certainly looked similar.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 4, 2010)

scifisam said:


> I'm fairly sure he crashlanded in the past, not in 2005. I cant remember what exactly made the childhood scenes look like they were from the nineties, but in the grown-up scenes all the technology and phones and so on were very 2010.
> 
> You could be right about the hospital - it certainly looked similar.



He flew over the Dome so even if the Tardis travelled back of its own accord during the regeneration bit he couldn't have gone back further than 2000. So if he landed in 2000 then was 14 years ahead by the end of the story that's still 2014.

And if it is the same hospital then there's a neat bit of synchronicity with Pertwee and Smith both stealing their costumes from the place.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 4, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> He flew over the Dome so even if the Tardis travelled back of its own accord during the regeneration bit he couldn't have gone back further than 2000. So if he landed in 2000 then was 14 years ahead by the end of the story that's still 2014.
> 
> And if it is the same hospital then there's a neat bit of synchronicity with Pertwee and Smith both stealing their costumes from the place.



He could have gone back in time_ after _flying over the Dome.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 4, 2010)

Balbi said:


> The preview of the series demonstrates that the BBC have thrown some serious budget wedge at Moffat.
> 
> Prove it or lose it



Apparently this series has had its budget cut, along with most other programming.




			
				DotCommunist said:
			
		

> apropos of nothing, the re inclusion of UNIT in the modern Who was crap because they didn't have a Lethbridge-Stewart level of actor to carry it off.
> 
> They should cast someone good to represent UNIT if they want to have it back



I liked the posh Colonel in the Sontaran two-parter, they should bring him back.

"You will face me, sir!"
*boom* headshot


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 4, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked the WLK (Weird Looking Kid).  He's a good Doctor.   He has a confidence about him that's very attractive, I think.  So, I'm very happy so far.
> 
> As for the episode, it was good in parts, but not top notch.  Some very good lines though.  I'm happy about that, too.  Good lines make up for shit looking spacecraft.  And those eye-crystal things did look a bit rubbish.
> 
> ...



Just watched it and agree with this. Good solid start that promises more. And I had a little tear in my eye when they showed all the doctors


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 4, 2010)

Smith; better than expected. I think there's a touch of Pertwee about him. Amy; best companion in years. Story - meh. Theme - oh dear.

But great that it's back and future eps look promising.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 4, 2010)

It's been mentioned on DS, importantly, that the age factor's not really evident in the way he's playing it - it's a dab of Davison, some Baker, Eccleston, Hartnell and a splash of the others. A character of composite, with hopefully some to be developed individual traits. The habit of looking at things up close and little things like that.

My favourite moment, after two viewings is...

"Box falls out of the sky, man falls out of the box, man eats fish custard...and you're not scared. Must be a hell of a scary crack in your wall"



Oh and, I'm the Doctor. Basically.                  Run.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 4, 2010)

I must be wierd. I saw it tonight and it was shit. I kept switching over to Antiques Roadshow. Or going to look at my supper which was cooking.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 4, 2010)

Matt seemed to be channel Tennant. Hopefully this is just transitional and he'll find his own voice. 

Was annoyed that they felt insecure enough to do a advance peek of the rest of the series. 

Quite liked the first ep. 

I didn't turn over. 

Look they introduced a character by showing her nice legs, then she is in a cops uniform, then she frees her gorgeous hair with hat off and a shake. Then we say kissagram!! And Frenchmaid.  

No way am I turning over!!!


----------



## zoooo (Apr 4, 2010)

jer said:


> Amy; best companion in years.



Based on what. Her legs?



You blokes dribbling about Amy better not be the ones who got all condescending about girls 'only watching Dr Who cos they fancy Tennant'.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 4, 2010)

Quartz said:


> I must be wierd. I saw it tonight and it was shit. I kept switching over to Antiques Roadshow. Or going to look at my supper which was cooking.



Typical U75 review:
It was shit.
The story was shit.
The acting was shit.
The titles were shit.
The sets were shit.
The props were shit.
The effects were shit.
The whole thing was shit.


----------



## pigtails (Apr 4, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked the WLK (Weird Looking Kid).  He's a good Doctor.   He has a confidence about him that's very attractive, I think.  So, I'm very happy so far.
> 
> As for the episode, it was good in parts, but not top notch.  Some very good lines though.  I'm happy about that, too.  Good lines make up for shit looking spacecraft.  And those eye-crystal things did look a bit rubbish.
> 
> ...



Ditto, I was well apprehensive and not very hopeful at all - very pleasently surprised and happy!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 4, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Was annoyed that they felt insecure enough to do a advance peek of the rest of the series.


To be fair I'm pretty sure that's quite standard for Who, and probably some other shows too.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 4, 2010)

Wiki pages for all episodes are up. Eps 5/6 have Mike Skinner guest starring, which should provide me with enough amusement for the rest of time


----------



## Gromit (Apr 4, 2010)

zoooo said:


> Based on what. Her legs?
> 
> 
> 
> You blokes dribbling about Amy better not be the *ones who got all condescending* about girls 'only watching Dr Who cos they fancy Tennant'.



That would be me.

I promise if her acting is shite I'll be commenting despite her looks. It's only passable ATM but it's early days. 

Tennant was corny right till the end.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 4, 2010)

jer said:


> Smith; better than expected. I think there's a touch of Pertwee about him.


The bow-tie.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Apr 4, 2010)

she's watching now and it's a right fucking wind-up tbf. load of bollocks with some posh twat running around. fucking doctor fucking who. stick it up your doctor bollocks afaic


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2010)

Balbi said:


> My favourite moment, after two viewings is...
> 
> "Box falls out of the sky, man falls out of the box, man eats fish custard...and you're not scared. Must be a hell of a scary crack in your wall"
> 
> ...


"I'm the Doctor; I'm worse than _everyone's_ aunt!"

"That's _not_ how I'm introducing myself."


----------



## Balbi (Apr 4, 2010)

"who da man........................................................ok, i'm never saying that again"


----------



## pigtails (Apr 4, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> she's watching now and it's a right fucking wind-up tbf. load of bollocks with some posh twat running around. fucking doctor fucking who. stick it up your doctor bollocks afaic



so are you trying to say you're not keen??


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Apr 4, 2010)

pigtails said:


> so are you trying to say you're not keen??


maybe


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> she's watching now and it's a right fucking wind-up tbf. load of bollocks with some posh twat running around. fucking doctor fucking who. stick it up your doctor bollocks afaic



He went to my school, which is the equivalent of being the most favoured crayon in a box that the dog got hold of and gnawed to buggery.

I think he may have had private acting lessons though.


----------



## zoooo (Apr 4, 2010)

Gromit said:


> That would be me.
> 
> I promise if her acting is shite I'll be commenting despite her looks. It's only passable ATM but it's early days.


----------



## janeb (Apr 5, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Typical U75 review:
> It was shit.
> The story was shit.
> The acting was shit.
> ...



Well yes, apart from all those of us who loved / liked it that is


----------



## al (Apr 5, 2010)

ok - i think it was an ace first episode and if he keeps the 'geronimos' down to one an episode, max, then he could well have a wonderful doctory future ahead of him....


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 5, 2010)

Jesus, that was like Harry Potter the cocky little time traveler. They are all kids!!!

Not any worse than Tennats performance or stories but I he is just so young that it doesnt sit right. 

Do police ladies really dress like that?


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 5, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Jesus, that was like Harry Potter the cocky little time traveler. They are all kids!!!
> 
> Not any worse than Tennats performance or stories but I he is just so young that it doesnt sit right.
> 
> Do police ladies really dress like that?



Shes not a police officer, she's a kissagram.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 5, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Jesus, that was like Harry Potter the cocky little time traveler. They are all kids!!!
> 
> Not any worse than Tennats performance or stories but I he is just so young that it doesnt sit right.
> 
> Do police ladies really dress like that?



 someone wasn't paying attention then


----------



## Santino (Apr 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd love to see a TARDIS focused episode from new boy and I think me may well be in for one. The sheer size of the pocket universe inside that box has been emphasised in this episode so I reckon we may well see some TARDIS based episode.



In your own time, son.



Santino said:


> I don't know why we hardly ever see any of that. It's not like they would have to build an expensive set, just use a library.
> 
> I'd love to see an episode set mostly inside the Tardis, maybe with a bad guy on the loose in it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 5, 2010)

Balbi said:


> someone wasn't paying attention then



I only switched on half way though.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 5, 2010)

I thought it was really good.  Tennant, as some other people have said, looked right but by the end it was getting proper corny.  I get the impression that this doctor is a bit more of a loose cannon, not as bound by his morals as the prev dr, possibly as a result of all that what happened with rose etc.  I disliked the way with the 10th dr that some of the stories were really emotionally involved, constant decisions that the dr had to make that would effect everything and then suddenly in the middle of a series you would get a couple of episodes that were just a massive load of RUNNING AWAY FROM ALIENS WITH BIG GUNS FOR 45 MINUTES.

I like the way that already with the new dr the are conciously exploring the emotional back stories of the characters (Amy's back story is well good) and loved it when dr who got the big googly eye alien back and bollocked him.  I also want to know about myth (the brand name on the laptop) and the clip or the dr shooting a GUN in the clips at the end.  Also can't wait for the sexy vampires episode, it looks dead good.

I am a geek


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

The 'loose cannon' bit is standard post-regeneration behaviour. It isn't just the body which needs to stabalise but the personality as well.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 5, 2010)

I liked the trying all different types of food bit as well - it made me laugh and I would imagine would really appeal to kids which I thought was good.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The 'loose cannon' bit is standard post-regeneration behaviour. It isn't just the body which needs to stabalise but the personality as well.



I realise that this is the case but do you not think that as a result of everything that happened to the 10th dr now he has regenerated as the 11th dr he is a bit more 'well fuck it then...' to avoid getting hurt again.  TBH I think the 10th dr was getting a bit sentimental towards the end and I would like this dr to be more of a bastard/maverick.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 5, 2010)

Balbi said:


> "who da man........................................................ok, i'm never saying that again"



I lolled a lot at that. 

I really, really enjoyed it. I wasn't expecting to but was pleasantly surprised and am now very much looking forward to the rest of the series.

One thing I noticed in the trails for the upcoming episodes - those aliens with the big down-turned mouths looked a little bit like the creatures from the Buffy episode _Hush_:







They steal people's voices. And given that the theme of the DW series appears to be "silence will fall", this might be a little homage to one of the scariest Buffy episodes.

Or it might not. Just a thing that occurred to me.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 5, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I liked the trying all different types of food bit as well - it made me laugh and I would imagine would really appeal to kids which I thought was good.



"It's not my fault you can't give me any decent food.  You're scottish, fry something."


----------



## fogbat (Apr 5, 2010)

There were a number of very good lines in it, weren't there?

Steven Moffat's script, and now that he's in charge, hopefully more of this


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

'what have you got for me this time?'

made me go 'wahey, new interior'. 

Nah the boy dun good, and although it wasn't an episode of crackingly good plot it was a solid establishment for M Smith. New companion is unbearably good looking but can also act! Yay.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> I realise that this is the case but do you not think that as a result of everything that happened to the 10th dr now he has regenerated as the 11th dr he is a bit more 'well fuck it then...' to avoid getting hurt again.  TBH I think the 10th dr was getting a bit sentimental towards the end and I would like this dr to be more of a bastard/maverick.



yeah, possibly we shall see ennit. I really enjoyed his scene where he challenged the giant eyeball to look into his past and then it fucked off at top speed. Good stuff. I was a bit refreshed but I think Mgann was missing from the montage of win


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> 'what have you got for me this time?'
> 
> made me go 'wahey, new interior'.
> 
> Nah the boy dun good, and although it *wasn't an episode of crackingly good plot* it was a solid establishment for M Smith. New companion is unbearably good looking but can also act! Yay.




Hmm, I thought it was pretty good in terms of setting up the new series.  They've managed to introduce the new doctor, the new assistant, the new assistants back story interlinks with the dr in quite an elaborate way (better than the usual, dr gets into trouble, random girl turns up and helps, he goes oh no you can't come with me, she goes ah pleeeeeeeease and he says oh okay then), also you've got rory, jeff, the idea of the 'aunt' although we haven't met her yet, the question of what happened to Amy's mum and dad and Leadworth the village.  Also, established a new tardis and new identity for the dr, all coming together at the end with that bit where it showed all the aliens and the previous doctors, and a scary monster, and the dr saved the whole planet in 20 mins without a tardis or a sonic screwdriver, loads and good lines and lots of hints of things to come, and they managed to fit it all into an hour.  I think they did pretty well considering everything they had to get in.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah, possibly we shall see ennit. I really enjoyed his scene where he challenged the giant eyeball to look into his past and then it fucked off at top speed. Good stuff. I was a bit refreshed but I think Mgann was missing from the montage of win



nah, mcgann was definitely in the montage, along with the sea devils and a sontaran from 'the sontaran experiment' too.


----------



## nightowl (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> nah, mcgann was definitely in the montage, along with the sea devils and a sontaran from 'the sontaran experiment' too.



Glad to see a nod to the past for once. Wonder if we'll ever see a story featuring more than one doctor again?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

oh for a 'five doctors!' bring back sylvester, mgann, ecclestone, davidson and pertwee (is he dead yet? Must be) and!

edit to remove superfluous mcoy


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 5, 2010)

Ecclestone wouldn't do it. The poor luvvy is scared of being typecast.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

nightowl said:


> Glad to see a nod to the past for once. Wonder if we'll ever see a story featuring more than one doctor again?



it's possible, but multiple doctor episodes always rely on the previous actors willingness/ability to do it. hartnell was almost too sick to appear in the three doctors (it was his last ever acting performance before he died) and tom baker didn't want to come back for the five doctors (they used unbroadcast footage from an unfinished episode).

looking at the surviving doctors, tom and colin baker just look far too different from how they appeared, davison and mccoy are possible, but i highly doubt ecclestone or tennant would be willing to come back just yet.

they're usually done for anniversaries, so you never know, maybe they'll pull out something special for the 50th anniversary in 2013


----------



## nightowl (Apr 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> oh for a 'five doctors!' bring back sylvester, mgann, ecclestone, davidson and pertwee (is he dead yet? Must be) and!
> 
> edit to remove superfluous mcoy



I'm afraid pertwee has gone to the big police box in the sky. What about tom? Stick a curly wig on him...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Ecclestone wouldn't do it. The poor luvvy is scared of being typecast.



Yeah, might get in the way of all those high profile well payed gigs he has going on at the moment


----------



## nightowl (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> it's possible, but multiple doctor episodes always rely on the previous actors willingness/ability to do it. hartnell was almost too sick to appear in the three doctors (it was his last ever acting performance before he died) and tom baker didn't want to come back for the five doctors (they used unbroadcast footage from an unfinished episode).
> 
> looking at the surviving doctors, tom and colin baker just look far too different from how they appeared, davison and mccoy are possible, but i highly doubt ecclestone or tennant would be willing to come back just yet.
> 
> they're usually done for anniversaries, so you never know, maybe they'll pull out something special for the 50th anniversary in 2013



I'd like to see McCoy given a run out. I think things were going in the right direction towards the end of his era and it was a shame they chose to cancel at that particular moment.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 5, 2010)

I reckon Tennent, Ecclestone, McCoy and Davison would be up for it...plus Colin Baker is probably desperate but tbh who really would want him back, he was a bit shit


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

nightowl said:


> I'd like to see McCoy given a run out. I think things were going in the right direction towards the end of his era and it was a shame they chose to cancel at that particular moment.



He got machine gunned across both hearts in the TV film (nice touch showing both man breasts getting done).

But of course it is time travel so there is no real reason why he couldn't come back with his awesome question mark brolly and dapper style.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I reckon Tennent, Ecclestone, McCoy and Davison would be up for it...plus Colin Baker is probably desperate but tbh who really would want him back, he was a bit shit



He was a larger gent even back then and nobody wants a shouty twat back in the Whoniverse.

That said, Trial of a Timelord was good who.

Bring back the Valeyard!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Bring back the Valeyard!


 
Good call.

But instead, they bring back the Ood. There are still several thousand unsold Ood masks in a warehouse somewhere and the dreary buggers will carry on appearing until the merch is shifted.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I reckon Tennent, Ecclestone, McCoy and Davison would be up for it...plus Colin Baker is probably desperate but tbh who really would want him back, he was a bit shit



my guess is that they'll start making plans for the 50th anniversary episode (and i'm fairly sure there will be one) late next year, early 2012. if they want to get a few bigger names involved, they'll need to get them signed up far in advance


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 5, 2010)

It was on TV, so theoretically counts as canon...


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

doesn't count. neither does the eastenders crossover for comic relief!


----------



## Quartz (Apr 5, 2010)

This episode never really grabbed me. Possibly because they were trying to do too much.

But I think a 5 (or 6 or 7) Doctors episode, a Christmas Special, would be very good.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)




----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 5, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> It was on TV, so theoretically counts as canon...


 



In which case,  Mark Gatiss gets in as well . . .


----------



## 8den (Apr 5, 2010)

nightowl said:


> I'm afraid pertwee has gone to the big police box in the sky. What about tom? Stick a curly wig on him...



Stick a curly wig on him? I saw him in Eat on Oxford Street they'd need to expand the tardis doors to make him fit through them. He'd need more visual effects work than the entire cast of sex and the city need to make them look vaguely normal


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

he does the white man fro at least as well as the Genes (hackman/wilder)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 5, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> It was on TV, so theoretically counts as canon...



Dr Who contradicts itself thought. None of it is canon and all of it is canon. That one though is clearly a comedy sketch. You want to include the dalek sex film as well?


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 5, 2010)

It has also set up a few red herrings/series arcs such as Silence Will Fall and The Pandoricum, but the 2 things that are *really* creaming the geeks on other forums are these two;

1. Rory the nurse. They did a close up of his badge when he was introduced, and it says that it was issued in 1990, which would make him about 40's (which he obviously isnt), and also that when Sophie from Peep Show popped up at the end as Prisoner Zero's 'body' he didnt recognise her, even though she was a coma patient in his hospital ward.

2. "Box falls out of sky. Man Falls Out of Box. Man eats Fish custard and you dont even blink. You know what that means? Thats one scary crack in your wall". At the end of the episode when he and Amy are in the TARDIS, The Doctor looks at a scanner type object. The camera scans in on the scanner, and on it is a crack identical to the one in Amys bedroom (not the wave, the crack).

Being a Who geek can be fun!


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

my sister noticed the crack in the wall/on the screen too!


----------



## emanymton (Apr 5, 2010)

I noticed the screen and guessed it meant something but didn't spot the crack.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 5, 2010)

Cracks in reality, could be from Gallifrey booming back in from the time lock in the specials - the Daleks and Cybermen in the Void? Also they've not resolved the GIANT VICTORIAN ROBOT CYBERTHING from The Next Doctor, there's gotta be a history bump about that at some point.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Apr 5, 2010)

The producers only bother about continuity when it suits them.

I enjoyed the episode and the new Doctor.  I'd got so fed up with RTD and David Tennant that I haven't bothered to watch the regeneration episode.  Here's hoping that this series will be better.  As a set-up episode it wasn't too bad, yes the story was a bit slow and the big bad wasn't that terryifing but I'm prepared to give them time to establish the new actors and production team.

I didn't watch Confidential, did that say anything about the forthcoming episodes?


----------



## nightowl (Apr 5, 2010)

Sadly I only watched the first half of the regeneration story. A shame really as I thought tennant was for the most part a good doctor. Everthing these days seems to get so self congratulatory when something successful comes to an end.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 5, 2010)

both the xmas spesh episodes are up on iplayer at the moment if you want to catch up.  to be honest, i thought the last two with tennant were rubbish though...


----------



## scifisam (Apr 5, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> It has also set up a few red herrings/series arcs such as Silence Will Fall and The Pandoricum, but the 2 things that are *really* creaming the geeks on other forums are these two;
> 
> 1. Rory the nurse. They did a close up of his badge when he was introduced, and it says that it was issued in 1990, which would make him about 40's (which he obviously isnt), and also that when Sophie from Peep Show popped up at the end as Prisoner Zero's 'body' he didnt recognise her, even though she was a coma patient in his hospital ward.



Or that he was _born_ in 1990, which is roughly when Amy was born - they grew up together.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> both the xmas spesh episodes are up on iplayer at the moment if you want to catch up.  to be honest, i thought the last two with tennant were rubbish though...



worth it for the wonder of wilf, though. cribbins = best companion ever.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Or that he was _born_ in 1990, which is roughly when Amy was born - they grew up together.



i wouldn't have thought that birthdate would be displayed on your ID card as "issued 30/11/1990" though

having said that, i expect it's just a small cock up by the prop team. we shall see.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i wouldn't have thought that birthdate would be displayed on your ID card as "issued 30/11/1990" though
> 
> having said that, i expect it's just a small cock up by the prop team. we shall see.



Is that what it says in full? I could only make out the 1990. Well, that would have to be cock-up then, unless he's a time-traveller too.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

scifisam said:


> Is that what it says in full? I could only make out the 1990. Well, that would have to be cock-up then, unless he's a time-traveller too.



yup...







i guess him being some kind of time traveller is what all the nerd forums are excited about. my money is still on a prop cock up though tbh


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> yup...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unless Amy's reality happens in the mid nineties, which would explain why everyone was so floored by the sun going funny and the spaceships...  people of earth at the end of the tennant period are getting a bit blase about extra terrestrial happenings.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

well yes, but i think that the default time period for most who stories is the current year, unless explicitly stated otherwise. in past episodes, it has been a nit hazy, but i think 10 years plus is stretching it a bit, particularly when everyone was out on their posh camera phones taking photos of the space ship!


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> well yes, but i think that the default time period for most who stories is the current year, unless explicitly stated otherwise. in past episodes, it has been a nit hazy, but i think 10 years plus is stretching it a bit, *particularly when everyone was out on their posh camera phones taking photos of the space ship*!



d'oh - this is why i will never make a scifi geek.


----------



## mentalchik (Apr 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> d'oh - this is why i will never make a scifi geek.



Don't worry about it spangles.......sci-fi is a long standing passion of mine but i'm not a details geek either.........


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> d'oh - this is why i will never make a scifi geek.



Not to mention the Facebook and Twitter references


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2010)

alright smarty pantses.  why was everyone all surprised about the sun and the spaceships? i'd have thought they'd be quite common fact-of-life stuff  by now.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 5, 2010)

They've got the time continuity buggered up before - the Pertwee UNIT years were made in the early 70s but supposed to be set in the 80s... Mawdryn Undead has the Brigadier already retired - celebrating the Jubilee in '77...

I have retrieved my inner nerd.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> alright smarty pantses.  why was everyone all surprised about the sun and the spaceships? i'd have thought they'd be quite common fact-of-life stuff  by now.



earthquakes/tidal waves/hurricanes are common fact-of-life stuff too, but it doesn't stop people getting their camera phones out to take pictures of it


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> earthquakes/tidal waves/hurricanes are common fact-of-life stuff too, but it doesn't stop people getting their camera phones out to take pictures of it



not convinced.  plus, everyone would know all about the doctor by now.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> not convinced.  plus, everyone would know all about the doctor by now.


Who looked a leeetle different last time any of them saw him...


----------



## belboid (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> everyone was out on their posh camera phones taking photos of the space ship!


Rory clearly has an iphone as well, so really pretty specific


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Who looked a leeetle different last time any of them saw him...



nah - the whole regeneration thing... it'd all be common knowledge or at least, massively widespread internet conspiracy theory.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> nah - the whole regeneration thing... it'd all be common knowledge or at least, massively widespread internet conspiracy theory.



But they still wouldn't know what his new face looked like. 

They all seemed pretty blasé to me - taking photos, not screaming and running.


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> massively widespread internet conspiracy theory.



see LINDA


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> see LINDA



i was going to mention this, but couldn't think of a succinct way to describe it.

basically it would be like that if he'd only turned up and saved the earth / done amazing things once or twice...

seriously those kids at the atmos academy, the people who worked for naismith... all the battle of canary wharf stuff...


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> yup...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can I just say: "good God". And "If I ever get like this, shoot me".


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> not convinced.  plus, everyone would know all about the doctor by now.



Just because everyone knows about the dr doesn't mean that they wouldn't film something like the sun going odd.  Also, in real life, most of us don't believe most of the conspiracy theories that are around on the grounds that they're totally mad - would people in a sci fi program like dr who be convinced by what would essentially come across as a conspiracy theory that's totally mad if all the authorities were trying to cover it up?


----------



## janeb (Apr 5, 2010)

Just watching it for the 2nd time - am going to take a punt on Amy Pond being the Dr and River Song's daughter.  Need to see how the tension between them develops but she's got a very mysterious past.

And it's VERY good.....great to see the Dr's authority at the end - to hell with the raggidy Dr


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

well river song is coming back in four episodes later in the series, so you never know...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2010)

Moll Flanders 

I have seen her boobs.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 5, 2010)

janeb said:


> Just watching it for the 2nd time - am going to take a punt on Amy Pond being the Dr and River Song's daughter.  Need to see how the tension between them develops but she's got a very mysterious past.
> 
> And it's VERY good.....great to see the Dr's authority at the end - to hell with the raggidy Dr



Oooooh. I like. Heh - imagine if you stuck *that* up on the nerd forums!

Re the ID thing: concensus is that its fake ID (and compacted by the fact he was photographing everything on his iphone, that he didnt recognise Sophie from Peep Show as one of his patients when she went 'patient zero' *and* by the fact that when the whole bit when the Doctor did the massive mind retrace - "what did I see..." bit, which finished with Patient Zero being the man and the dog, he didnt say "stop that man", but "stop that nurse"...

geekery 

Oh and if you want to read more.....Digital Spy Doctor Who forums are here (and you will read them forever as there as so many - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=183


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Moll Flanders
> 
> I have seen her boobs.



Hahaha! Imagine if the Doctor said that. I would certainly lol.

"Hello, I am Dr River Song"

"I've seen your bewbs....."


----------



## strung out (Apr 5, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Oh and if you want to read more.....Digital Spy Doctor Who forums are here (and you will read them forever as there as so many - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=183



one of those saddoes actually scanned the barcode to see if it said anything


----------



## scifisam (Apr 6, 2010)

Ooh. see what it says on his ID? Emergency _Unit_.  Even though he was working on the coma ward.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 6, 2010)

*Taps nose, points finger*

You're getting into it too eh? Its so damn seductive!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 6, 2010)

Good spot, you fucking geek (wait, can I call people geeks? no I can't. It is pot/kettle)

I really hope we usher in a new and improved UNIT now


----------



## scifisam (Apr 6, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> *Taps nose, points finger*
> 
> You're getting into it too eh? Its so damn seductive!!!



It doesn't take much - note my name. 



DotCommunist said:


> Good spot, you fucking geek (wait, can I call people geeks? no I can't. It is pot/kettle)
> 
> I really hope we usher in a new and improved UNIT now



Course you can - it's like gaydar, with geeks best able to spot other geeks. Anyway, again, note my name.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 6, 2010)

New lad looks promising, new Tardis looks cool, new accomplice . . . grrrr.

A good start.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 6, 2010)

"Why are there no ducks in the pond?"

Whats her name?

hmmm...

And, SciFiSam - Amy Pond, River Song? I think you are on to something 

Lets have a Dr Who thread!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 6, 2010)

Well the trails for future progs show that Matt Smith (he went to my school you know) will face all the old enemies: Daleks, Cybermen etc.

What would be realy cool is if they started reviving the second division enemies that everyone forgets like the Valeyard and The Rani, the Silurians and the Vervoids.

Everyone forgets them cos of how cool the Daleks and The Master are but I think there is room for them to come back. Also: Bad Wolf is close to the Fenric stuff.

I'd like Matt (I went to sch...you know ) to battle the b listers of the baddies. Se him take on the Giant Spiders and the Bertie Basset monster


----------



## strung out (Apr 6, 2010)

bring back the zygons and the ice warriors


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 6, 2010)

I thought it was quite good nice to see they've kept the DR who new generation dialogue up which of cuorse some people have said that's tenant keenly forgetting that actually technically it's ecclestone, or more accurately it's the same writing team (bar of course Russel T Dullvis) and so the continuity of the series is maintained regardless of the actor playing the Dr. 

It was a good opener, sminky assistant which is good, Smiths Dr still asking what kind of Dr am I after regen which as again people seem quick to jump on hasn't really been stated yet... (surely that's what the first series of the new Dr is all about establishing...) story was a touch weak but then it ties in nicely with the face of Bo type stories from the old etch a sketch end of the world series and the Dr/Donna so again not to bad.

All in all looks like it'll shape up to be a good series should prolly withhold judgment until the last one of this series though once Smith has had time to get his teeth more stuck in and the story arch can pull away from the schlock of Davis shitty grasp...


----------



## Pingu (Apr 6, 2010)

it was, imo,


ok


not a great episode and the first 10-15 mins nearly lost me. was on a par with some previous episodes - the weaker episodes imo - but will carry on. it got better and had it been eccleston I probably would have said it was better than it was.. but there is some "new doctor predjudice" going on which dropped it down a couple of pegs

not liking the new look tardis though


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 6, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> Unless Amy's reality happens in the mid nineties, which would explain why everyone was so floored by the sun going funny and the spaceships...  people of earth at the end of the tennant period are getting a bit blase about extra terrestrial happenings.


The menks on Gallifrey Base have worked it out - the pre-credits sequence is 2005, same as the final scene from The End of Time (possibly - note it isn't snowing like it was in Rose's estate!). The TARDIS then travels back in time (you could easily imagine that the title sequence is actually part of the narrative!) before crash-landing in Amelia's garden in 1995/6ish. The Doctor then travels forward in time to 2008 (the public are alarmed by the aliens because this predates the Earth being stolen by the Daleks and carted across the galaxy), and the final scene takes place in our present, 2010.

Rory's badge is a prop cock-up.

Simple!


----------



## kyser_soze (Apr 6, 2010)

New asst = hot
New Dr = Yet to be proven in a real crisis
Overall = Not a bad first ep, but needs to do better. 
Dr River Song = MMMMMMMMM


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 6, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> The menks on Gallifrey Base have worked it out - the pre-credits sequence is 2005, same as the final scene from The End of Time (possibly - note it isn't snowing like it was in Rose's estate!). The TARDIS then travels back in time (you could easily imagine that the title sequence is actually part of the narrative!) before crash-landing in Amelia's garden in 1995/6ish. The Doctor then travels forward in time to 2008 (the public are alarmed by the aliens because this predates the Earth being stolen by the Daleks and carted across the galaxy), and the final scene takes place in our present, 2010.
> 
> Rory's badge is a prop cock-up.
> 
> Simple!



So the menks can apparently work all that timey wimey stuff out, but choose to ignore a shot that was a close up on a badge for a specific reason? Why did we need to see the badge?

I think the menks are wrong.

But then again, we'll *all* be wrong. We always are with Dr Who


----------



## killer b (Apr 6, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Rory's badge is a prop cock-up.


can't be true. why would they have shown it so prominently if not for a reason?


----------



## fogbat (Apr 6, 2010)

The crack in the wall / screen on the Tardis thing was well spotted. They seemed to be focussing on the screen at the end, for some reason, but I didn't notice the matching shape.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 6, 2010)

killer b said:


> can't be true. why would they have shown it so prominently if not for a reason?


Well it's clearly not set in fucking 1990, everyone's going around with 2008-vintage smartphones.


----------



## killer b (Apr 6, 2010)

unless, of course, he isn't quite what he seems?


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 6, 2010)

killer b said:


> unless, of course, he isn't quite what he seems?



As someone here said (SciFiSam?) his badge says Emergency Unit.

Maybe he is a reservist for UNIT or summink


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 6, 2010)

I like the idea that amelia is the dr and river songs daughter but in which case that makes her perving on him when he was choosing his new clothes totally wrong...
Although when she was asking him 'why me though?' he was obviously lying when he said 'oh just lonely y'know' - there is definately more to the back story.

I also noticed that rory's badge said emergency unit not coma ward.  If he was just bank staff or whatever, moving around different areas, the badge wouldn't indicate a specific ward/unit.  If you watch confidential the amount of effort that goes into props and set dressing etc I don't think they would have overlooked something so massive as getting the badge wrong.


----------



## madzone (Apr 6, 2010)

Why was he just copying David Tennant?


----------



## killer b (Apr 6, 2010)

spoilers R_A! edit your post before someone stabs you...


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 6, 2010)

madzone said:


> Why was he just copying David Tennant?



Maybe because he was still stuck in the regeneration between old dr and new dr, although the thing that really annoyed me all the way through was that they basically have the same voice and it was quite confusing if you looked away from the telly (I did also have a high temperature at the time).


----------



## Gromit (Apr 6, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> I like the idea that amelia is the dr and river songs daughter but in which case that makes her perving on him


 
Its one theory.

The most obvious plot for me (and therefore hopefully not what they are doing):

She's going to die on her wedding day in one of those time nexus can't be changed ways and so he is giving her a last supper treat kind of thing.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The crack in the wall / screen on the Tardis thing was well spotted. They seemed to be focussing on the screen at the end, for some reason, but I didn't notice the matching shape.



could that screen not just be a record of, i dunno, the five last interesting things that got sonic'd??


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 6, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Its one theory.
> 
> The most obvious plot for me (and therefore hopefully not what they are doing):
> 
> She's going to die on her wedding day in one of those time nexus can't be changed ways and so he is giving her a last supper treat kind of thing.



prob not the case if what is on wikipedia is true about future episodes.  i also think that the dr knows he needs her, the old 'something keeps bringing us back together' although if the speculation about rory is true, it might be something that is bringing him and rory together rather than him and amy.


----------



## hektik (Apr 6, 2010)

I really enjoyed the new episode, and I liked Matt Smith's interpretation of the Doctor: in both this episode, and the trailers and scenes which are on youtube, he comes across as being so excited about having these adventures, and seeing these wonderful things, that he gets caught up in the whole business, rather than seeing it as being a bit of a burden (which is where DT eventually ended up). He also seems as though he has a short attention span, absent-mindedly forgetting that he is supposed to be doing something, which I like the idea of - that there is so much going on in his head that he can't stay focused on saving the day, which happens almost as an afterthought. 

This episode wasn't the best, but it put enough in to introduce the the new characters and set in place the tone and possible plot lines for the rest of the series. I really hope that it is good as it promises to be.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 6, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> could that screen not just be a record of, i dunno, the five last interesting things that got sonic'd??



There's a photo of both, earlier on in this thread. The match is uncanny.


----------



## hektik (Apr 6, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> Although when she was asking him 'why me though?' he was obviously lying when he said 'oh just lonely y'know' - there is definately more to the back story.



I interpreted that as him not really wanting to go into his recent past, rather than lying about his intentions for choosing her.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2010)

fogbat said:


> There's a photo of both, earlier on in this thread. The match is uncanny.



yeah, i know - but could that screen not just be a record - scrolling slideshow, if you like - of big things the screwdriver has done.  He sonic'd the crack, the crack shows on the screen.  Backup data, if you will.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 6, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> yeah, i know - but could that screen not just be a record - scrolling slideshow, if you like - of big things the screwdriver has done.  He sonic'd the crack, the crack shows on the screen.  Backup data, if you will.



Oh I see - sorry, misunderstood you earlier 

Yep, could well be.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 6, 2010)

I don't think they'd do the whole Doctor/Amy snog scene if she's going to be his daughter. Sure, if neither of them knew then there's no problem, but I think because of the 'family' nature of the show they wouldn't risk it.

I like these theories about Rory


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 6, 2010)

Ooh, I like this theory on the DS forum: someone spotted there was lots of the colour red in the episode (for example, when the stills focus on Rory it focuses on his red pen). Then someone looked at what Rory means, and it's an old Scottish (or Irish) word for Red King. Also, 30th Nov is St Andrew's Day, another Scottish connection, and that's the date on his hospital badge.

It's all about Rory


----------



## Gromit (Apr 6, 2010)

Rory is a Darlek, fact!


----------



## fogbat (Apr 6, 2010)

If I wrote for Who, I'd take an absolute delight in sticking in shitloads of red herrings


----------



## The_Reverend_M (Apr 6, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Of bloody course, every bloody baddie knows some great secret that they have to give some cryptic fucking clue about
> 
> Fuck's sake...



This bothered me too. Otherwise really enjoyed it and believe the best is yet to come


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2010)

fogbat said:


> If I wrote for Who, I'd take an absolute delight in sticking in shitloads of red herrings



absolutely, especially now, with so many saddoes (not me, oh no, no, no) opouring over every tiny detail


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 6, 2010)

But these things HAVE to be significant. The HAVE to be


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 6, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> But these things HAVE to be significant. The HAVE to be



they well are, that's half the point of these cult shows is that you can enjoy them without paying much attention but also that the geeks will get right into the geeky aspect of it.  i don't think they would risk putting anything in that wasn't relevent otherwise they would be accused of 'getting it wrong' or 'making a mistake'


----------



## janeb (Apr 6, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ooh, I like this theory on the DS forum: someone spotted there was lots of the colour red in the episode (for example, when the stills focus on Rory it focuses on his red pen). Then someone looked at what Rory means, and it's an old Scottish (or Irish) word for Red King. Also, 30th Nov is St Andrew's Day, another Scottish connection, and that's the date on his hospital badge.
> 
> It's all about Rory



I like this, there's too much not quite right about him ( not in a bad way) for him to just a superfical character. 

Re amy - did think before I posted idea about dr's daughter that it would be a bit icky but wondered if they were going to pull a luke / leia trick. But, given more thought could amy be the young river?  Builds on the time traveller wife vibe the 1st episode was giving off and would lead to interesting time / space issues in the episodes when we know river is going to be there


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I don't think they'd do the whole *Doctor/Amy snog scene* if she's going to be his daughter. Sure, if neither of them knew then there's no problem, but I think because of the 'family' nature of the show they wouldn't risk it.
> 
> I like these theories about Rory



what???


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2010)

janeb said:


> I like this, there's too much not quite right about him ( not in a bad way) for him to just a superfical character.
> 
> Re amy - did think before I posted idea about dr's daughter that it would be a bit icky but wondered if they were going to pull a luke / leia trick. But, given more thought could amy be the young river?  Builds on the time traveller wife vibe the 1st episode was giving off and would lead to interesting time / space issues in the episodes when we know river is going to be there



clearly there's a way round it, cos they meet when smith is playing him, but didn't river song say "you look so young!" when they met in the library?


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 6, 2010)

Ha! *loving* all these theories.

Imagine if from the previous episodes ("you are not alone") that Riversong was his sister......

*who-ometer explodes*


----------



## janeb (Apr 6, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> clearly there's a way round it, cos they meet when smith is playing him, but didn't river song say "you look so young!" when they met in the library?



I hate time paradoxes  , my brain can't think on that many levels at once

The Dr / Amy snog is in the trailer for the series


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 6, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> what???



on one of the clips on the bbc website (i think it was broadcast as a trailer) there is a very quick scene where the dr snogs someone and it appears to be amy - don't know if anyone else knows that if definatley is or whatever.

i don't think river song can be his sister, it was made pretty clear that she is his 'true love' as he tells her his real name, but also i'm confused because in the clips of the river song episode she looks like a proper villain.  I don't like her anyway, think the actress is about as good as freema agyeman and clearly rose was the drs real true love


----------



## janeb (Apr 6, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Ha! *loving* all these theories.
> 
> Imagine if from the previous episodes ("you are not alone") that Riversong was his sister......
> 
> *who-ometer explodes*



RS is def his wife isn't she? - and whilst that might be normal for Galifrey not sure if it'll play on the BBC.  

Has anyone mentioned yet that Amy could be the Rani?


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 6, 2010)

Nobody's commented on the biblical imagery then? The lingering scene where he gives her the apple, the serpentine baddy, maybe even the all-powerful all-seeing judge in the sky.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 6, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Nobody's commented on the biblical imagery then? The lingering scene where he gives her the apple, the serpentine baddy, maybe even the all-powerful all-seeing judge in the sky.



There's a lot of red, red everywhere. Red hair, red pens, red phone box. More red - the fire engine! What does it mean?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 6, 2010)

RED LIPSTICK!

Moffat must be having a great time cranking up the speculation.


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> think the actress is about as good as freema agyeman



this is a shame.  you had made sense before, but slagging of Alex Kingstons acting??!!! Your transistors need looking at love



TheHoodedClaw said:


> RED LIPSTICK!



Nod to Powell & Pressburger, there'll be crazed nuns popping up any mo


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 6, 2010)

belboid said:


> this is a shame.  you had made sense before, but slagging of Alex Kingstons acting??!!! Your transistors need looking at love



Sorry for some reason I really dislike her - I know other people think she's brill


----------



## emanymton (Apr 6, 2010)

Don't have a view on Alex Kingston as such but I found River Song pretty annoying.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 6, 2010)

emanymton said:


> Don't have a view on Alex Kingston as such but I found River Song pretty annoying.



I think she was just being equally flirty and confident as the Doctor. Which you'd expect given their hinted marriage.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 7, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I think she was just being equally flirty and confident as the Doctor. Which you'd expect given their hinted marriage.



Yeah, OR, she was playing the only character that she ever plays which is flirty and confident and has an annoying voice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2010)

Don't be dissing moll flanders


----------



## fogbat (Apr 7, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Don't be dissing moll flanders



This, pretty much.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 7, 2010)

No, you have just been blinded by her bewbs


----------



## belboid (Apr 7, 2010)

ooh, the bewbs, I mean the wonderful Ms Song, is in four episodes of this series apparently


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 7, 2010)

belboid said:


> ooh, the bewbs, I mean the wonderful Ms Song, is in four episodes of this series apparently



poor old dr who having to be married to that warbling harriden


----------



## emanymton (Apr 8, 2010)

Ok here is my theory. Amy Pond's mysterious aunt is going to turn out to be River Song.


----------



## belboid (Apr 8, 2010)

uhh, her aunt was wotsername, mrs meldrew


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 8, 2010)

No, that was Jeff's gran


----------



## belboid (Apr 8, 2010)

aah, okay, I'd assumed her n Jeff were related in some way.

The aunt is to due to appear in episode 13, apparently, played by Susan Vidler (Allison in Trainspotting)


----------



## nightowl (Apr 10, 2010)

*Dr who (10th April)*

Here we go. Fingers crossed it's better than last week


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 10, 2010)

I'll be watching later on the iPlayer due to the football but did we really need another thread


----------



## ska invita (Apr 10, 2010)

bring back blakes 7!


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 10, 2010)

nightowl said:


> Here we go. Fingers crossed it's better than last week


Last week's wasn't that bad.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 10, 2010)

Good episode so far, much better.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 10, 2010)

It's exactly as eerie and clever as I remember it from the early/mid 80s - and then, of course, when you watch Davison or Baker episodes they are actually risible. So it's like getting a wagon wheel that's actually the size they seemed to be when you were four. 

Anyway, great 45 mins, save the whale finale a bit pants. But a dalek historical to come!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 10, 2010)

Looking forward to the dalek episode coming up, really enjoyed tonights episode though, great recovery from last week, was fearing the worst after that!


----------



## nightowl (Apr 10, 2010)

They just need to sort the theme music out now


----------



## Quartz (Apr 10, 2010)

The BNP must be livid. This pleases me greatly. 

Unlike last week, it kept me engaged all the way through.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 10, 2010)

I want to watch it  not working on iplayer atm, presumably because everyone is trying to watch it because its on too bloody early


----------



## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

I enjoyed that.


----------



## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> I'll be watching later on the iPlayer due to the football but did we really need another thread


I'll get merging.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 10, 2010)

good


----------



## likesfish (Apr 10, 2010)

spitfires with lasers how fucking cool is that


----------



## killer b (Apr 10, 2010)

That was ruling, bar the lashings of cheese towards the end. I think the new doctor is brill too...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 10, 2010)

I can't figure out if that was more Hitchhiker's Guide, Star Trek IV or Terry Pratchett. Brilliant stuff anyway, Moffat clearly has a gift for inventing scary things. The blokes with the rotating heads actually had my little brother (17 years old ffs) cowering under a blanket 

Very clever in places too, even if it did get a bit soppy at the end.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 10, 2010)

I like his slightly batty professor shtick, but I think he's still trying to find his feet in the role. At least, I hope that's the reason why he occasionally comes over as 'acting'. 

Anyone watch confidential after? I went right off Moffatt when he said when he saw Amy Pond's audition video he thought "she's good, shame she's so wee and dumpy", but then he saw her in a corridor and was all "wow, she's tall and gorgeous!"

I guess there'll never be a short, fat companion then. Don't know why I thought Doctor Who wouldn't be privy to those sorts of things, but there you go, I was disappointed by that.


----------



## killer b (Apr 10, 2010)

Yeah, I'm glad we didn't watch it till the kids were in bed: the smilers were proper scary...


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 10, 2010)

Oh ffs! am i the first to point out that there was the crack!  the bedroom wall crack!  In the final shot of the starship britain!  all sort of blue-lighty.


----------



## killer b (Apr 10, 2010)

You are. We all saw it, but then were overwhelmed by ww2 daleks immediately after.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 10, 2010)

The Edge Of Destruction

The Three Doctors

The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances

The Beast Below


Geek points to those who can work out the link.


----------



## hektik (Apr 10, 2010)

Great episode - I already like the distinction between Moffatt's series and RTD's: in the latter, humans are a lovely race, deserving of having their own intergalactic minder in the doctor. In this one we are already seeing the darker side of humanity: capturing and torturing an animal to serve our own self-interest. 

I am enjoying matt smith's doctor as well: he knows everything, yet he doesn't come across as smug - he takes pleasure in sharing his knowledge with Amy -almost as if he is teaching her how to be like him.

also, another occurrence of the crack (on the outside of the ship) - safe to say that there is definitely something up with that


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 10, 2010)

I reckon we're going to see that crack everywhere Amy goes with the doctor - I think people aren't commenting on it because it's so obvious it doesn't seem like that much of an "ooooooh!" when it's there again. 

Or perhaps that's just me 

Go on Helen, what's the link?


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 10, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> The Edge Of Destruction
> 
> The Three Doctors
> 
> ...



I can't work it out.  Is previous dr who geek knowledge required or is it just a logic puzzle?

That episode was dead good I thought.  I liked it.  Lots of red again, but did you guys also notice that in the first episode the front door of amys house and most of the walls in the house were painted 'tardis blue'?


----------



## hektik (Apr 10, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> The Edge Of Destruction
> 
> The Three Doctors
> 
> ...



no one dies?


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 10, 2010)

hektik said:


> no one dies?



Yup!


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 10, 2010)

what?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 10, 2010)

That was _smart_. Even annoying Doctor Face isn't spoiling this for me now.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 10, 2010)

Also, the dalek in the trailer that said "I am your soldier" sounds a lot like the dalek in The Power Of The Daleks that chants "I am your servant".


----------



## ChrisC (Apr 10, 2010)

I'm beginning to like Matt Smith better than David Tennant. I get ready to get flamed!


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 10, 2010)

I think Matt Smith is brilliant.  It definitely helps that the whole series seems to have a larger budget now than it did before, and the quality of the writing so far IMO is much better than it was getting towards the end of David Tennant.  I think if he (Matt Smith) was rubbish he would be drowning in all that, whereas he seems to be holding his own.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 10, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> I think Matt Smith is brilliant.  It definitely helps that the *whole series seems to have a larger budget now than it did before*, and the quality of the writing so far IMO is much better than it was getting towards the end of David Tennant.  I think if he (Matt Smith) was rubbish he would be drowning in all that, whereas he seems to be holding his own.



No, there was a budget cut for this series.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 10, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> No, there was a budget cut for this series.



Wow, I got the impression they had more money because in the first episode of confidential they were talking about how they had loads more space and resources to use on the new tardis.

It certainly has quite a different look to it.  A bit more 'filmy' I think, especially the first episode.


----------



## yardbird (Apr 10, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> I can't figure out if that was more Hitchhiker's Guide, Star Trek IV or Terry Pratchett.



The spacewhale  - shades of Dune navigators.

I thought it was good and even waited until the end to go and have a pee.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 10, 2010)

hektik said:


> no one dies?



I think that's a Moffat trademark actually- the Weeping Angels didn't actually kill people, and everyone who died in the Library ended up either coming back or living on in a virtual world.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 10, 2010)

Better


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 11, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> they were talking about how they had loads more space and resources to use on the new tardis.



The extra space came from their destroying the Torchwood set next to that of the tardis.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 11, 2010)

That was absolutely lovely 

You can see the budget cuts, I reckon. I suspect we'll get more "could easily be in a BBC studio" sets.

Nice to see the Doctor saying "geronimo" again. Will it happen every episode?


----------



## Dooby (Apr 11, 2010)

I've never been mad on Dr Who. I mean it was always ok but meh. Saw about 5% of episodes maybe. 

But  ... I fucking love this series   I have no idea why. I am OLD and suddenly loving it.

Always liked David Tennant before he played the part last time but wasn't bothered about watching it. But I dunno if this is just the timing, the writing, or the way it does seem kinda unashamedly aimed at kids, or the cast  But still 

eta I watched the first episode 3 times on iplayer last week. I've gone too far


----------



## fogbat (Apr 11, 2010)

Oh, yes. And Amy sees things like the Doctor does - the whole information fizzing behind the eyes thing.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 11, 2010)

The lastest Confidential does suggest that everyone in the set is at least a little in love with Karen Gillan


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 11, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The lastest Confidential does suggest that everyone in the set is at least a little in love with Karen Gillan



Yeah, not least dr who himself...


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 11, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> Oh ffs! am i the first to point out that there was the crack!  the bedroom wall crack!  In the final shot of the starship britain!  all sort of blue-lighty.



Ssssh, don't talk about the crack...

I laughed out loud at the election stuff - every five years you vote and press to forget. I don't know if they timed that specially, but if they did it's genius.

Nice to see him get a bit cross as well.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 11, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The lastest Confidential does suggest that everyone in the set is at least a little in love with Karen Gillan



Perhaps I'm just a crotchety old cow, but all that doe-eyed 'isn't she marvellous' stuff is making me a bit grumpy and even occasionally a little stabby and ragey. 

/crotchety old cow


----------



## ajdown (Apr 11, 2010)

ska invita said:


> bring back blakes 7!



I have all 52 episodes, plus the two 'specials' on VHS.

Will be watching this week's DW this evening on iPlayer.

Amy Pond.  Mmmmmmmmmmm.


----------



## nightowl (Apr 11, 2010)

Nine Bob Note said:


> The extra space came from their destroying the Torchwood set


----------



## Cid (Apr 11, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> Yeah, not least dr who himself...



Well he did get a good look up her nightie at the start of this ep...

I'm not sure about either of them yet, they both have their moments, but ffs there were some truly mawkish bits... Did like that the flawed doctor bit though, too used to extremes to recognise something fairly simple.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 11, 2010)

Cid said:


> Well he did get a good look up her nightie at the start of this ep...



Teehee, I bet he has some kind of x-ray contact lenses as well.  In fact, he is probably in a permenant state of walking round viewing dressed people in their underwear JUST BECAUSE HE CAN


----------



## ericjarvis (Apr 11, 2010)

I've come to the conclusion that in order to rationally judge the new series I need to see an episode in which Karen Gillan wears sunglasses all through. Because I have the feeling that if they completely dispensed with all the set, props, costume, and simply did the sound and a close up of her eyes I would be completely transfixed. That makes it rather difficult to judge.

That said I'm impressed so far. Matt Smith is excellent. I like the way he's building the character bit by bit, rather than simply being a new Doctor. I like the way the focus has shifted from personal stuff to larger scale things without losing the personal human issues. RTD was OK and all that, but Moffat has a record of creating really great TV. I'm looking forward to seeing where he takes Doctor Who. I think it may be the best series yet.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 11, 2010)

No one mentioned that that was the LAST whale. 

Only had people from the UK. Not even Scotland. 

Kept it to themselves. Let the other nations die out then?
Imperialist bastards!!!


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 11, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Perhaps I'm just a crotchety old cow, but all that doe-eyed 'isn't she marvellous' stuff is making me a bit grumpy and even occasionally a little stabby and ragey.
> 
> /crotchety old cow



FWIW you're fitter than she is

I was never a big fan of gingers


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 11, 2010)

Gromit said:


> No one mentioned that that was the LAST whale.
> 
> Only had people from the UK. Not even Scotland.
> 
> ...



I got the impression that the other nations had managed to build their own spaceships without the need for whales.  Scotland chose to separate from the rest of the UK.

I also liked that the tongue of the whale was Lancashire  it's just like that round here you know!


----------



## emanymton (Apr 11, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> I got the impression that the other nations had managed to build their own spaceships without the need for whales.


You see thats what happens when you destroy all your manufacturing industry.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 11, 2010)

Ha. I took the star whale to be an environmental metaphor as well- people choosing to ignore the harm they're doing for the sake of progress.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 11, 2010)

ericjarvis said:


> I've come to the conclusion that in order to rationally judge the new series I need to see an episode in which Karen Gillan wears sunglasses all through. Because I have the feeling that if they completely dispensed with all the set, props, costume, and simply did the sound and a close up of her eyes I would be completely transfixed. That makes it rather difficult to judge.



The girl's got some magic about her that's for sure. TBH if the show is actually terrible and I'm only fooled into thinking it's good by the presence of Karen Gillan then I'm still not that bothered.

Apparently the young Amy in the first episode was Karen Gillan's real-life cousin who she'd never actually met before filming started.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 11, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> FWIW you're fitter than she is
> 
> I was never a big fan of gingers



Oh you are sweet 

I've got Moffatt's dreaded 'wee and dumpy' thing going on too


----------



## cesare (Apr 11, 2010)

Amelia's face, especially her eyes, reminds me of cyberfairy


----------



## emanymton (Apr 11, 2010)

cesare said:


> Amelia's face, especially her eyes, reminds me of cyberfairy



Her name is amy


----------



## cesare (Apr 11, 2010)

emanymton said:


> Her name is amy



The Doctor prefers Amelia too


----------



## 8ball (Apr 11, 2010)

hektik said:


> also, another occurrence of the crack (on the outside of the ship) - safe to say that there is definitely something up with that



I saw the crack but totally missed the connection 



radio_atomica said:


> . . .  did you guys also notice that in the first episode the front door of amys house and most of the walls in the house were painted 'tardis blue'?



They over-ordered on paint when making the new Tardis, I reckon.


----------



## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The lastest Confidential does suggest that everyone in the set is at least a little in love with Karen Gillan


The Doctor was drooling over her!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2010)

Argh! went out drinking and missed my favourite program in the whol wide world

*goes off to Iplayer*


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 11, 2010)

Actually the whole episode reminded me of a 2000AD type story- especially the gun-toting queen with the working class accent.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 11, 2010)

8ball said:


> They over-ordered on paint when making the new Tardis, I reckon.



We'll just have to wait and see...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 11, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Argh! went out drinking and missed my favourite program in the whol wide world
> 
> *goes off to Iplayer*



Is Andromida still on?


----------



## Strumpet (Apr 11, 2010)

Just saw first two episodes. Nice


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2010)

Spot on with the 2000ad comment.

THIS is good who. Not done my intense re-watch for meta-arcs yet but I loved the gun toting queen and those booth things reminded me of the stone angels in blink. Moffat has a deft touch for the macabre


----------



## pigtails (Apr 11, 2010)

Did no one think it had a bit of a tip of the hat to star wars too??
There was a line something like "Help us Doctor, you're our only hope" and then they end up down a garbage shoot...... no??...... just me?...... I think I see star wars everywhere


----------



## mentalchik (Apr 11, 2010)

pigtails said:


> Did no one think it had a bit of a tip of the hat to star wars too??
> There was a line something like "Help us Doctor, you're our only hope" and then they end up down a garbage shoot...... no??...... just me?...... I think I see star wars everywhere



No, me and the eldest noticed that too !


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2010)

yeah, liz 10 says it. I slapped myself for spotting the reference


----------



## pigtails (Apr 11, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah, liz 10 says it. I slapped myself for spotting the reference



why?? It makes you cool to know star wars so well ......... doesn't it???............ please say yes


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 11, 2010)

Gromit said:


> No one mentioned that that was the LAST whale.
> 
> Only had people from the UK. Not even Scotland.
> 
> ...



The little girl said that the Scots built their own ship.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 11, 2010)

pigtails said:


> Did no one think it had a bit of a tip of the hat to star wars too??
> There was a line something like "Help us Doctor, you're our only hope" and then they end up down a garbage shoot...... no??...... just me?...... I think I see star wars everywhere





mentalchik said:


> No, me and the eldest noticed that too !





DotCommunist said:


> yeah, liz 10 says it. I slapped myself for spotting the reference


 Me, um... five?

Plus, it's set in _space_, just like Star Wars*  


*actually, the Starship UK or whatever it was called could be said to be reminiscent of the Imperial Star Destroyers. Could be said...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 11, 2010)

I thought it was excellent, let's hope they can keep it up for the whole series...


----------



## Gromit (Apr 11, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> The little girl said that the Scots built their own ship.



That was what she was told by the adults. Believe everything you are told by the government do you?

#If the rest of the UK couldn't build a ship without using a space whale, their only option it seems, then why do we think anyone else could? (cept maybe the yanks and the chinese, possibly the ruskies)


----------



## Strumpet (Apr 11, 2010)

Gromit said:


> That was what she was told by the adults. Believe everything you are told by the government do you?
> #If the rest of the UK couldn't build a ship without using a space whale, their only option it seems, then why do we think anyone else could? (cept maybe the yanks and the chinese, possibly the ruskies)



Oooo never thought of that. Hmmmm


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2010)

Gromit said:


> That was what she was told by the adults. Believe everything you are told by the government do you?
> 
> #If the rest of the UK couldn't build a ship without using a space whale, their only option it seems, then why do we think anyone else could? (cept maybe the yanks and the chinese, possibly the ruskies)


It wasn't their only option; they just left it too late.  As usual.


----------



## hektik (Apr 11, 2010)

Just re-watched: it really is quite brilliant. I think the design of the series so far is a big clue to what is going to happen in the rest of the series: there is a big mash of old and new technologies  - not just in the tardis, but there was a mix in this episode too:  the mannequins in the booths in a high tech space station, plus there were loads of old telephones that the monks used. And obviously, in the next episode, we have spitfires with lasers.

linked in to the crack in time, maybe?


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 11, 2010)

Gromit said:


> That was what she was told by the adults. Believe everything you are told by the government do you?
> 
> #If the rest of the UK couldn't build a ship without using a space whale, their only option it seems, then why do we think anyone else could? (cept maybe the yanks and the chinese, possibly the ruskies)



Well we know the Yanks survived in some form, because Captain Jack is from further in the future than last night's ep.

Also your view of geopolitics may be a little outdated. What if GB is a third-world country by the 29th century? The Thais and Mongolians and Bolivians might have sped off in much nicer and shinier spaceships years before the Brits got their act in gear.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 11, 2010)

hektik said:


> *spitfires* with *lasers*



This is going to be the marker for how good the series will be IMO.

It could be awful, but if they crack it, well, quite possibly the coolest thing in the history of the universe


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 11, 2010)

just Watched episodes 1 & 2. 

New titles - I like.

Theme tune - shit. Delia Derbyshires original sounds alien and exciting. This sounds like someone pissing about on DX7.

Matt Smith - hes good. I though the young posh thing would be imsurmountable but hes very promissing. Hes a bleesed relief after Tennants smug gurning. 

Amy. Fantastic. And she can act. And she convincingly fiesty and odd ball. 
And I am in love. 

Stories - 1st epsisode not bad. 2nd epsisode very good. 

All looks promising for the future. Moffat is so much better at sci-fi than RTD, are far less prone to piling on the cheese. 

And WW2 khaki daleks - spitfies in space!  Yay!


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 11, 2010)

Gromit said:


> That was what she was told by the adults. Believe everything you are told by the government do you?
> 
> #If the rest of the UK couldn't build a ship without using a space whale, their only option it seems, then why do we think anyone else could? (cept maybe the yanks and the chinese, possibly the ruskies)



Ah, wikipedia told me that this all refers back to an episode the 4th doctor had where there are a whole bunch of ships, perhaps...


----------



## madzone (Apr 11, 2010)

Ok. I'll grudgingly admit that he is definitely putting his own stamp on the role. I liked last night's episode. However, Amy Pond is yet to grow on me. I find her acting veering from shocking to adequate.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 11, 2010)

madzone said:


> Ok. I'll grudgingly admit that he is definitely putting his own stamp on the role. I liked last night's episode. However, Amy Pond is yet to grow on me. I find her acting veering from shocking to adequate.



The main thing that annoys me about her is that her accent isn't broad enough...it's sort of like they've said, be scottish, but be posh and easily understood at the same time...or maybe that is just her voice...


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 11, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> The main thing that annoys me about her is that her accent isn't broad enough...it's sort of like they've said, be scottish, but be posh and easily understood at the same time...or maybe that is just her voice...



Not everyone in Scotland speaks like Rab C. Nesbitt. 

She's using her normal Inverness accent. Glottal stops and everything!


----------



## madzone (Apr 11, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> The main thing that annoys me about her is that her accent isn't broad enough...it's sort of like they've said, be scottish, but be posh and easily understood at the same time...or maybe that is just her voice...



I think she sounds like Quimmy


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 11, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Not everyone in Scotland speaks like Rab C. Nesbitt.
> 
> She's using her normal Inverness accent. Glottal stops and everything!



Okay, fair enough, I do like it when you get really broad and correct regional accents on tv.  I am not overly familiar with an Inverness accent though...


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 11, 2010)

Great stuff, liked everything apart from the shitty new theme tune. Take it back to the 60s original I say. Waaaaay ahead of its time.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> The main thing that annoys me about her is that her accent isn't broad enough.


She's Invernesian; that's what they sound like.


----------



## cybertect (Apr 11, 2010)

Surprisingly, he does keep reminding me of John Pertwee. Just need a few more moments of petulant irascibility, but we have nearly a whole series to come.

This is a good thing.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 11, 2010)

They've incorporated the original theme into the new one, which is not something they've done for the last couple of series.


----------



## Cid (Apr 12, 2010)

hektik said:


> Just re-watched: it really is quite brilliant. I think the design of the series so far is a big clue to what is going to happen in the rest of the series: there is a big mash of old and new technologies  - not just in the tardis, but there was a mix in this episode too:  the mannequins in the booths in a high tech space station, plus there were loads of old telephones that the monks used. And obviously, in the next episode, we have spitfires with lasers.
> 
> linked in to the crack in time, maybe?



Ah, come on - since the first hints of a trailer we've been presented with a gothic /cyberpunk feel... like it mind you.


----------



## cesare (Apr 12, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> Great stuff, liked everything apart from the shitty new theme tune. Take it back to the 60s original I say. Waaaaay ahead of its time.



Yeah I don't like the pop twangly new version  I want WEEEEEEHAYOOOO, WEEEEEEHAYOOOO, BAH BAH Ba baaa deeyooooo, badadeeyum, badadeeyum, baaaaaaa, woooo_ooooooooo


----------



## kyser_soze (Apr 12, 2010)

Another whinge about the theme tune, but good ep, much better than the first.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

It occurs to me that if the daleks are back, the crack must be a crack in the Time Lock he set when the last Time War was ended. I've yet to think why- it could be something he did or has yet to do.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

pigtails said:


> Did no one think it had a bit of a tip of the hat to star wars too??
> There was a line something like "Help us Doctor, you're our only hope" and then they end up down a garbage shoot...... no??...... just me?...... I think I see star wars everywhere



Not only that, but they also spent some time in the mouth of a giant beast, like when the Millennium Falcon goes into that space slug in The Empire Strikes Back.


----------



## pigtails (Apr 12, 2010)

Santino said:


> Not only that, but they also spent some time in the mouth of a giant beast, like when the Millennium Falcon goes into that space slug in The Empire Strikes Back.



oooOOOooo yeah!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

Santino said:


> Not only that, but they also spent some time in the mouth of a giant beast, like when the Millennium Falcon goes into that space slug in The Empire Strikes Back.



which they slid into through a tube like the bit where they rescue lieia in New Hope


----------



## Infidel Castro (Apr 12, 2010)

I like the _carte blanche_ approach to things this series, even the way the doctor just said to his piece of fluff _where to?_  I like that.  Steampunk galore, a right old wander through space and time, silly crossovers...very good.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

The showdown between the Doctor and the Master a couple of series ago was also Star Wars-tastic, especially when the Doctor burned the Master's body Luke/Vader style.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

pigtails said:


> and then they end up down a garbage shoot...





DotCommunist said:


> which they slid into through a tube like the bit where they rescue lieia in New Hope



Do pay attention, OO7.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 12, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It occurs to me that if the daleks are back, the crack must be a crack in the Time Lock he set when the last Time War was ended. I've yet to think why- it could be something he did or has yet to do.



Well in the first episode prisoner zero was taunting the dr 'the timelord doesn't know where the cracks came from' etc.  It is probably his fault, but y'know he'll sort it out, he's the doctor.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Another whinge about the theme tune, but good ep, much better than the first.


It was good.  I like the new Dr.  I like the pyjama lass; she has smeddum.  I like the dialogue.  I don't like the tune or the smoky tunnel.


----------



## cesare (Apr 12, 2010)

smeddum?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2010)

cesare said:


> smeddum?


Spark, attitude, something-about-her.


----------



## kyser_soze (Apr 12, 2010)

She's 'spunky'.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 12, 2010)

imo the last ep was better than the first one.

am liking the new assitants attitude - none of this simpering "oooh tell me what to do dr .. you are sooo great" malarky - and shes hot

new bloke is not as bad as ithought he was going to be and i can see him growing on me (hes a bit pertweeesque)


eta

yeah tune sucks


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> She's 'spunky'.


I was avoiding that, for obvious reasons.


----------



## cesare (Apr 12, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Spark, attitude, something-about-her.



I'm trying to imagine 'smeddum' in a Scots accent but the best I can get is 'smeared em'.


----------



## pigtails (Apr 12, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I was avoiding that, for obvious reasons.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 12, 2010)

Watched it last night and enjoyed it. The boy is good  Got far too excited at the thought of WWII daleks!!


----------



## Espresso (Apr 12, 2010)

Gromit said:


> That was what she was told by the adults. Believe everything you are told by the government do you?
> 
> #If the rest of the UK couldn't build a ship without using a space whale, their only option it seems, then why do we think anyone else could? (cept maybe the yanks and the chinese, possibly the ruskies)



The kid Amy spoke to seemed suprised that Amy was Scottish, too. So she  obviously believed what the government told her.

Personally I reckon it's far more likely that the government fed all the Scottish people to the Starwhale first, and just said they'd got their own ship.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

I bet even though it was the 29th century Scotland still hadn't managed to qualify for a world cup


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2010)

I'd have hoped by then people would have grown out of football.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 12, 2010)

So Moffat is channeling early Star Wars.

Does that mean that later in the series he'll move into the prequels and we'll have a Jar Jar Binks type turn up?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 12, 2010)

Gromit said:


> So Moffat is channeling early Star Wars.
> 
> Does that mean that later in the series he'll move into the prequels and we'll have a Jar Jar Binks type turn up?


Who wants to take the Donna route on this one? And how about Mickey?

Vote now!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2010)

Gromit said:


> So Moffat is channeling early Star Wars.


Not even slightly.


----------



## kyser_soze (Apr 12, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I'd have hoped by then people would have grown out of football.



You are _so_ anti-working class.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> You are _so_ anti-working class.


Yes, because only working class people like football.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 12, 2010)

Less Star Wars, more a Brit version of Dark City, I thought.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 12, 2010)

Don't know Dark City.  But it wasn't Star Wars; it was good.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 12, 2010)

Did anyone spot the Magpie Electricals signage on Starship UK?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Less Star Wars, more a Brit version of Dark City, I thought.



yeah, I can see shades of that, the smilers etc.

As a dystopian vision I thought there were shades of Happiness Patrol about it.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

And shades of that episode with Simon Pegg. Huge city in space with a monster hiding in the spaceship.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

Was it ever explained why doing poorly at school meant you got fed to the whale?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

'citizens of little worth are fed to the beast' said creepy Prime Minister bloke


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 12, 2010)

Santino said:


> Was it ever explained why doing poorly at school meant you got fed to the whale?


 
They fed people who are not useful to society to it. You don't do well at school, you're not clever enough, you feed the whale.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 12, 2010)

If the whale was so nice, why did it still eat the adults?


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

But it refused to eat children. 

Or had it just got fussy in its dotage?


----------



## innit (Apr 12, 2010)

missfran said:


> They fed people who are not useful to society to it. You don't do well at school, you're not clever enough, you feed the whale.



I did wonder whether this system was going to continue, and if not what they would feed it.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 12, 2010)

Space plankton.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

At least the whale wasn't too big to drive through the plotholes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

It was the crying/screaming children that first pulled it's massive heartstrings and made it come to earth.

you weren't paying attention


----------



## fogbat (Apr 12, 2010)

It was getting all the organic food waste anyway. I imagine the people were just a tasty snack, like giant pork scratchings.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

So, they kept feeding it children even though it had refused to eat them from the beginning?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

to maintain the police state yes.


----------



## Santino (Apr 12, 2010)

I blates called that Liz 10 would be the queen from her first appearance. She ought to be part werewolf though.


----------



## innit (Apr 12, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It was the crying/screaming children that first pulled it's massive heartstrings and made it come to earth.
> 
> you weren't paying attention




Soppy div, deserved what it got.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 12, 2010)

Santino said:


> So, they kept feeding it children even though it had refused to eat them from the beginning?


 
Thats beraucrats for you. Unless someone writes a policy change they'll continue doing it no matter how stupid or ineffective it is.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 12, 2010)

Santino said:


> I blates called that Liz 10 would be the queen from her first appearance. She ought to be part werewolf though.



Top marks for making her not white. The BNP must be livid.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 12, 2010)

i'm about to watch the first 2 episodes...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 12, 2010)

I find the carte blanche 'totally new doctor' thing quite jarring. It's like nothing ever happened before this season. Given the emotional resonance of the last season I don't believe it. It's too jarring.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 12, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I find the carte blanche 'totally new doctor' thing quite jarring. It's like nothing ever happened before this season. Given the emotional resonance of the last season I don't believe it. It's too jarring.



I think that's deliberate - if he came out the same as Tennant all those mawkish speeches at the end of the last series would seem even sillier.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2010)

It was (badly) wrapped in tennants last ep. 

flashes of the old angst though, when he discussed being the last of his kind.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm unconvinced. Will have to see how the rest of the series plays out. Perhaps when River Song turns up it'll force some kind of direct recognition of the past.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 12, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Did anyone spot the Magpie Electricals signage on Starship UK?



But did you see it in the Tardis? 

/*geek*


----------



## Pingu (Apr 12, 2010)

something that i noticed whilst watching this againa today..

the st johns badge has reappeared on the tardis. wonder if there isany significance to this and will the doctor be performing poor quality first aid on people?


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 12, 2010)

having just watched the first episode i thought matt smith and karen gillan did well in an admittedly lame story. although traditionally 'regeneration' episodes are pretty variable in quality since as much time is devoted to establishing the new doctor (to viewers and other characters) as the particular story so it's par for the course. promising nonetheless though


----------



## janeb (Apr 12, 2010)

Spoke to my 6 year old nephew earlier tonight about this weeks episode and he told me that it scared him out of his skin and then afterwards when he went to sleep he woke up crying for thinking about the smilers and had to go to sleep in his mam and dads bed = I'd call that a result


----------



## janeb (Apr 12, 2010)

Ready for next week








From this website, http://lifetheuniverseandcombom.blogspot.com/2010/04/doctor-who-daleks-to-victory-poster.html


----------



## strung out (Apr 13, 2010)

the demon headmaster


----------



## pigtails (Apr 13, 2010)

strung_out said:


> the demon headmaster



It was him wasn't it!!  I meant to check, cause we weren't totally sure!


----------



## Cid (Apr 13, 2010)

Terrence Hardiman... He looks a bit like Jack Straw, I reckon he realised he was onto a good thing and just decided to model his characters on him.


----------



## The_Reverend_M (Apr 13, 2010)

Reading this thread makes me excited


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 13, 2010)

cybertect said:


> Surprisingly, he does keep reminding me of John Pertwee. Just need a few more moments of petulant irascibility, but we have nearly a whole series to come.
> 
> This is a good thing.



Agreed.

Bit surprised NI was still part of the UK, mind


----------



## Iguana (Apr 13, 2010)

jer said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Bit surprised NI was still part of the UK, mind



I thought he shouldn't really have called it the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland if Scotland wasn't included, as the "Great" means the entire island and it's surrounding minor islands.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 13, 2010)

Iguana said:


> I thought he shouldn't really have called it the United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland if Scotland wasn't included, as the "Great" means the entire island and it's surrounding minor islands.



It's the United Kingdom bit that's wrong if Scotland isn't there.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2010)

jer said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Bit surprised NI was still part of the UK, mind



all the catholics must have buggered off with Starship Scotland


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 13, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> all the catholics must have buggered off with Starship Scotland




Starship Scotland. hell on earth ( or space )

I speak as an ethnic Scot


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2010)

I sort of imagined a giant deep fat fryer with engines towing a good portion of Afghanistan's opium fields


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 13, 2010)

a dalek in camo 'fatigues' looked rather cool imo


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 15, 2010)

Compare these two scenes from The Power Of The Daleks and Victory Of The Daleks.


----------



## strung out (Apr 15, 2010)

that just made me remember, my brother's mate does all the voices for the daleks


----------



## editor (Apr 15, 2010)

Respect! Get him to do some voiceovers for when we ban posters!


----------



## cesare (Apr 15, 2010)

Blog with original Dr Who footage: http://lifetheuniverseandcombom.blogspot.com/2009/03/watch-all-doctor-who-william-hartnell.html


----------



## cesare (Apr 15, 2010)

I hadn't realised that Terry Nation wrote the original Dr Who. He wrote Blake's 7 too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2010)

Terry Nation was all over the old Who. I think he has done books as well


----------



## Belushi (Apr 15, 2010)

Nations original plan for the cliffhanger ending for the third season of B7 was a Dalek invasion of the Blakes 7 universe. It was blocked by the beeb as being too confusing for viewers.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 15, 2010)

He also wrote the original Survivors.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2010)

Series, not season ffs.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 15, 2010)

after watching the first episode of the new series i watched 'time-flight' from the davison era and bizarrely that also featured the tardis on its side and the doctor having to climb out, which i can't recall happening in any other episode.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 15, 2010)

strung_out said:


> that just made me remember, my brother's mate does all the voices for the daleks



nicholas briggs? cool 

i don't really watch 'doctor who confidential' but i loved the behind-the-scenes stuff he did in one of the series where he ad libbed in the dalek voice, he had everyone in stitches


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2010)

If you stand behind a fan when it is on and talk through it you can do a passable dalek impression yourself. I deffo don't do this at every fan I see.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 15, 2010)

killer b said:


> Series, not season ffs.



I say movie instead of film as well


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 15, 2010)

Belushi said:


> I say movie instead of film as well


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2010)

You are dead to me.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 15, 2010)

further fodder for a davros genetic experiment.


----------



## strung out (Apr 15, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> nicholas briggs? cool
> 
> i don't really watch 'doctor who confidential' but i loved the behind-the-scenes stuff he did in one of the series where he ad libbed in the dalek voice, he had everyone in stitches



yeah, that's him! (though to be fair, my bro was mates with DT before he got the part of the doctor too)


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 16, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> after watching the first episode of the new series i watched 'time-flight' from the davison era and bizarrely that also featured the tardis on its side and the doctor having to climb out, which i can't recall happening in any other episode.



It was also on its side and on a cart in Marco Polo and Time And The Rani but the Dr never got in or out of it on those occasions.


----------



## Doppelgänger (Apr 16, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> It was also on its side and on a cart in Marco Polo and Time And The Rani but the Dr never got in or out of it on those occasions.



Very geeky that I know, but it was actually Mark of the Rani.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 16, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Very geeky that I know, but it was actually Mark of the Rani.



He's right you know.


----------



## strung out (Apr 16, 2010)

oh god, i've wandered into a bunch of bigger geeks than me


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 16, 2010)

strung_out said:


> oh god, i've wandered into a bunch of bigger geeks than me



i'd say it's having a good memory rather than geekdom.

apropos of nothing i have 'resurrection of the daleks' to watch as a warm-up for tomorrow's episode


----------



## strung out (Apr 16, 2010)

got the gf visiting this weekend, so i'll be lucky to even watch the episode, let alone get in any warm-up stories


----------



## Doppelgänger (Apr 16, 2010)

strung_out said:


> got the gf visiting this weekend, so i'll be lucky to even watch the episode, let alone get in any warm-up stories



Well you've got the repeat on BBC Three on Sunday or it'll be on the iplayer.


----------



## strung out (Apr 16, 2010)

i've invited my sister round, so hopefully it'll be two against one when it comes to deciding what to watch on telly


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 16, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Very geeky that I know, but it was actually Mark of the Rani.



D'oh! Of course it was. I should have known especially as I was WATCHING the bloody thing last night which is how I knew!


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 16, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> D'oh! Of course it was. I should have known especially as I was WATCHING the bloody thing last night which is how I knew!



you are forgiven


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 16, 2010)

Belushi said:


> I say movie instead of film as well



I say movie & _fillum_, due to my mixed heritage


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 16, 2010)

oh tres epic


> 8th April
> 
> Doctor Who – The Time Of Angels Ep 4/13
> High Definition programme
> ...




yay!


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 16, 2010)

Hmmm, story of the season already?


----------



## Griff (Apr 16, 2010)

Well looking forward to WWII Daleks.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 16, 2010)

Griff said:


> Well looking forward to WWII Daleks.



Hope it's better than Daleks Take Manhattan...


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 17, 2010)

i enjoyed that but i do have a preference for the two parters.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 17, 2010)

jer said:


> Hope it's better than Daleks Take Manhattan...



Really? I thought that one was great. One of my favourite stories of the new era...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

Without Daleks in Manhattan there would have been no gloriously mental Dalek KHAAAAAN!

I think we can all agree that would have been a loss


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Without Daleks in Manhattan there would have been no gloriously mental Dalek KHAAAAAN!
> 
> I think we can all agree that would have been a loss



It had some of the worst accents ever, though.  Overlong, I reckon.  Should've been a one parter.


----------



## aqua (Apr 17, 2010)

oh great, it's starting *shoots self*


----------



## madzone (Apr 17, 2010)

Where did she get the clothes from?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

This is making me laugh.


----------



## aqua (Apr 17, 2010)

you're laughing? how are you not stabbing yourself in the eyes?


----------



## aqua (Apr 17, 2010)

a fucking jammy dodger?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

aqua said:


> you're laughing? how are you not stabbing yourself in the eyes?



I prefer laughter rather than stabbing myself, for some reason.


----------



## aqua (Apr 17, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I prefer laughter rather than stabbing myself, for some reason.


fair enough  when you put it like that!


----------



## yardbird (Apr 17, 2010)

"Broadside to Danny Boy, Broadside to Danny boy"


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

Ok this is reminding me of independance day.


----------



## FiFi (Apr 17, 2010)

yardbird said:


> "Broadside to Danny Boy, Broadside to Danny boy"



Himself and I laughed like drains at that, and then had to explain it to an 11yr old!


----------



## madzone (Apr 17, 2010)

Can you explain it to me?


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

This is the most Star Warsy episode yet!


----------



## FiFi (Apr 17, 2010)

madzone said:


> Can you explain it to me?


 
I'll get Himself online- He knows the film better than I do.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> This is the most Star Warsy episode yet!



Reminds me of that to! Some crap graphics, it has to be said.


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

Chopping someone's hand off to reveal circuitry - Star Wars
Sending fighters to blow up a spaceship - Star Wars
Your compassion is your weakness - 100% pure Star Wars


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

Black glove on his missing hand! STAR WARS!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 17, 2010)

That was a bit shit really, but next week's looks right cracking.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 17, 2010)

BROADSWORD CALLING DANNY BOY!! I thought I was going to wet myself when they said that!!


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 17, 2010)

"Gravity bubbles" was a bit weak. That was the weakest so far, IMO. But yeah, lots of Star Wars.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 17, 2010)

I enjoyed it! Though I prefer the shiny gold daleks to the teletubby coloured ones.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 17, 2010)

I noticed the first 3 coloured Daleks were red, blue and yellow. Little election reference there?


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

i fell asleep for half an hour in the middle. I don't feel like i missed anything.

i'm very interested in why Amy doesn't remember the daleks, though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 17, 2010)

That was altogether a little bit shit. And the new daleks have fat arses and are way too colourful to be scary.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 17, 2010)

Not only does she not remember the daleks, she knows how the robot man feels.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 17, 2010)

Hyperspace jump was very Star Wars too.


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2010)

I thought it was cracking. 'Ironsides'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 17, 2010)

Maybe the cracks in time lead to the Star Wars universe and the series finale will be a lightsabre fight between Darth Vader and the Doctor. Needless to say, Karen Gillan will have to be in a gold bikini at some point...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 17, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> i'm very interested in why Amy doesn't remember the daleks, though.



This is the only saving grace of that episode, I think. That and the trailer for next week's.

I was also remarkably underwhelmed by the doctor and Amy's acting. Everyone keeps harping on about how freaking awesome they are at acting. They weren't thinking of that episode when they said that.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 17, 2010)

The script was weirdly weak too. The doctor said "No fear!" at one point, as if he was playing a Bash Street Kid.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 17, 2010)

missfran said:


> The script was weirdly weak too. The doctor said "No fear!" at one point, as if he was playing a Bash Street Kid.



Yeah, I noticed that 'no fear' thing. Felt really weird.

Meh. 

I hate feeling 'meh' about Doctor Who.

I'm not loving Confidential this season either.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

Really didn't like how the daleks were coloured, should've kept the style they had with the soldier daleks.


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2010)

'Series'.


----------



## yardbird (Apr 17, 2010)

Oh dear, I'm having the same problem with Amy as I had with the first female assistants.
Going to my bedroom for half an hour mum, do not disturb.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 17, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Really didn't like how the daleks were coloured, should've kept the style they had with the soldier daleks.



Just like a trendy kitchen range, the new Dalek's come in a range of contemporary colour ways.


----------



## yardbird (Apr 17, 2010)

killer b said:


> 'Series'.



lol


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Just like a trendy kitchen range, the new Dalek's come in a range of contemporary colour ways.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 17, 2010)

That was pish. It was one of the first ones filmed and it showed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2010)

yardbird said:


> "Broadside to Danny Boy, Broadside to Danny boy"


Broad_sword_.



madzone said:


> Can you explain it to me?


It's from Where Eagles Dare.  A film with Richard Burton, Peter Barkworth, and Clint Eastwood.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2010)

How did the WWII areoplans get into space?


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2010)

We thought the new daleks were i-daleks...


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> How did the WWII areoplans get into space?



"Gravity bubbles".


Yeah, I know.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 17, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I enjoyed it! Though I prefer the shiny gold daleks to the teletubby coloured ones.



But think of the marketing opportunities.

Thats what I imagine they were thinking of. Cunning buggers Daleks...


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> Chopping someone's hand off to reveal circuitry - Star Wars
> Sending fighters to blow up a spaceship - Star Wars
> Your compassion is your weakness - 100% pure Star Wars



Yeah there was loads of Star Wars imagery there ... building on that 'help us Doctor, you're our only hope' from the first? episode.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> But think of the marketing opportunities.
> 
> Thats what I imagine they were thinking of. Cunning buggers Daleks...



Those evil cunts.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 17, 2010)

killer b said:


> We thought the new daleks were i-daleks...



Merchandise is what they are. Or will be soon


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2010)

missfran said:


> "Gravity bubbles".
> 
> 
> Yeah, I know.


It was all put into service very quickly.  I missed how.  Maybe the youngster was speaking at the time.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> Yeah there was loads of Star Wars imagery there ... building on that 'help us Doctor, you're our only hope' from the first? episode.


Can you explain what's so Star Warsy about that?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 17, 2010)

I like the new GTI Daleks 

Not a great episode but made me laugh


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Can you explain what's so Star Warsy about that?




Princess Leia:


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 17, 2010)

Although Amy doesn't know about
Daleks. She really should do.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> Princess Leia:


Ah, it's the same line.  I see.

I'll stop there, though, because I hate Star Wars and don't want to ruin Dr Who for myself.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 17, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Merchandise is what they are. Or will be soon



Yeah, you don't have to be the most cynical person to think that.

"But mummy, I've got to have the full set."

Also, expect the big old white leader one to be this Christmas's Tracy Island - parents killing each other in Toys'R'Us across the country.


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

I did like the new Dalek castes though... Scientist, Strategist, Drone, Eternal and Supreme.


----------



## yardbird (Apr 17, 2010)

yardbird said:


> "Broadside to Danny Boy, Broadside to Danny boy"





danny la rouge said:


> Broad_sword_.
> 
> 
> It's from Where Eagles Dare.  A film with Richard Burton, Peter Barkworth, and Clint Eastwood.



I could just hear Richard Burton's voice.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Apr 17, 2010)

Meh out of ten.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 17, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> Meh out of ten.





Seems to be the prevailing opinion.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, it's the same line.  I see.
> 
> I'll stop there, though, because I hate Star Wars and don't want to ruin Dr Who for myself.



I like Star Wars  (Not as much as Santino likes Star Wars though :smug


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> I like Star Wars  (Not as much as Santino likes Star Wars though :smug



Much to learn, you still have.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> Much to learn, you still have.



There's a Yoda generator somewhere ...


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2010)

I suspect bracewell will pop up later in the series...


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 17, 2010)

killer b said:


> I suspect bracewell will pop up later in the series...



He'll probably join torchwood.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

killer b said:


> I suspect bracewell will pop up later in the series...



He's soooooo going to be the ticking timebomb.


----------



## the button (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> There's a Yoda generator somewhere ...



http://www.yodaspeak.co.uk/index.php


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> He's soooooo going to be the ticking timebomb.



Pfft, thread over.

Anyone else think they're labouring this 'crack in time' at the end a bit too much?

Wouldn't it be far better if it was hidden, more mysterious, easier to miss? Gives those who notice it a big pat on the head. At the moment, it feels like we're being pandered to. Spoon fed. 

"This crack in time is important. I said, it's important. IMPORTANT. Look, here, I will show you. And again. And again. Did I mention it's important?"


----------



## the button (Apr 17, 2010)

> Of the world unite workers, nothing to lose but your chains, you have.



.... for instance.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

the button said:


> .... for instance.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Pfft, thread over.
> 
> Anyone else think they're labouring this 'crack in time' at the end a bit too much?
> 
> ...



Yer, tisabit. Entertaining though.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 17, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Pfft, thread over.
> 
> Anyone else think they're labouring this 'crack in time' at the end a bit too much?
> 
> ...



Eh? It hasn't been shown obviously since the first ep. The crack in the screen was hardly obvious and it wasn't mentioned directly at all last week. Today was only the second time people who aren't geeky will have seen it.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 17, 2010)

missfran said:


> Eh? It hasn't been shown obviously since the first ep. The crack in the screen was hardly obvious and it wasn't mentioned directly at all last week. Today was only the second time people who aren't geeky will have seen it.



It was revealed on the Star Whale's arse last week, at the end of the ep.


----------



## Epona (Apr 17, 2010)

BOLLOCKS!  Missed It


----------



## fogbat (Apr 17, 2010)

Tis on iPlayer already.


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

On BBC HD in a few minutes too.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Tis on iPlayer already.



I imagined you shrugging with hands held up, then.

Already.


----------



## the button (Apr 17, 2010)

I should worry.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

btw - KBO / Keep Buggering On? On kids' telly? Is that not a bit sweary?


----------



## fogbat (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> I imagined you shrugging with hands held up, then.
> 
> Already.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

the button said:


> I should worry.



It's not so terrible.


----------



## Epona (Apr 17, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Tis on iPlayer already.


Can't watch iPlayer (or anything else that is streamed) between 6pm and midnight (ta BT and your fair usage policy!), but seeing this thread did at least remind me to start downloading it for the other half.


----------



## Limejuice (Apr 17, 2010)

Rubbish production. 

Incidental music squashed the dialogue in several places. 

Plot thin and absurd. Derivative from Star Wars. 

Cobblers from start to finish.

Overall verdict: pitiful.

2/10

Must try much, much harder than that.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

Limejuice said:


> Rubbish production.
> 
> Incidental music squashed the dialogue in several places.
> 
> ...



Miserable git.


----------



## Limejuice (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> Miserable git.


Only after I'd seen it.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

missfran said:


> I noticed the first 3 coloured Daleks were red, blue and yellow. Little election reference there?



Nope.

watching again, the first three were: White, blue and orange.  Then yellow and red came out.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

Limejuice said:


> Only after I'd seen it.



I bet you watch film noir FOR FUN.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

that black glove moment was pure star wars. Entertaining but thin episode imho. Hope for more next week


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

missfran said:


> The script was weirdly weak too. The doctor said "No fear!" at one point, as if he was playing a Bash Street Kid.



playing the speech of the era he was in, not entirely wtf


----------



## belboid (Apr 17, 2010)

all those going on about it being a Star Wars rip off seem to have forgotten that that film was itself just a bunch of sci-fi cliches. Nothing new in it whatsoever. May as well say tonights episode was a Flash Gordon rip off.

That said, while I thought it was a decent episode, good script, lots of nice ideas, there was also a distinct uncertainty of tone and dodgy pacing. Certainly not the classic the guardian was proclaiming.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

not sure why the crack was shoehorned in at the last minute though


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> that black glove moment was pure star wars. Entertaining but thin episode imho. Hope for more next week



It's got to be deliberate.

On a side note - I hadn't known about barrage balloons. How tf did that escape my history lessons


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

belboid said:


> all those* going on about it being a Star Wars rip off* seem to have forgotten that that film was itself just a bunch of sci-fi cliches. Nothing new in it whatsoever. May as well say tonights episode was a Flash Gordon rip off.
> 
> That said, while I thought it was a decent episode, good script, lots of nice ideas, there was also a distinct uncertainty of tone and dodgy pacing. Certainly not the classic the guardian was proclaiming.



those of us who love sci fi enjoy these little touches, no harm in spotting them


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

belboid said:


> all those going on about it being a Star Wars rip off seem to have forgotten that that film was itself just a bunch of sci-fi cliches. Nothing new in it whatsoever. May as well say tonights episode was a Flash Gordon rip off.
> 
> That said, while I thought it was a decent episode, good script, lots of nice ideas, there was also a distinct uncertainty of tone and dodgy pacing. Certainly not the classic the guardian was proclaiming.



No one's saying it's a rip off, but they are pretty blatant lifts/_homages_*.


*Delete according to taste.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> It's got to be deliberate.
> 
> On a side note - I hadn't known about barrage balloons. How tf did that escape my history lessons



the last gasp for the zepplin types was that. Hopefully the continued rain of ash will see a new era for the dirigible


----------



## Superdupastupor (Apr 17, 2010)

Would you like some tea?- Dalek voice

becoming a house meme


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> those of us who love sci fi enjoy these little touches, no harm in spotting them



It just seems like a harmless piss-take for the entertainment of the geeky ones watching, ain't no big deal.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

Daleks getting the brew in had my house in stitches


----------



## belboid (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> those of us who love sci fi enjoy these little touches, no harm in spotting them



you miss the point, they are _not_ Star Wars references particularly, they are references to tropes that pre-exist SW by decades.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> the last gasp for the zepplin types was that. Hopefully the continued rain of ash will see a new era for the dirigible



Srsly though, I thought zeppelins were zeppelins, didn't have a clue about barrage balloons. I feel a bit ashamed.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

belboid said:


> you miss the point, they are _not_ Star Wars references particularly, they are references to tropes that pre-exist SW by decades.



'Oh help me Quatermass, you're my only hope'

Nah


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

belboid said:


> you miss the point, they are _not_ Star Wars references particularly, they are references to tropes that pre-exist SW by decades.



come on man, you know as well as I that sci fi recycles ideas constantly. But some of the touches from the last two eps are blatant SW


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

belboid said:


> you miss the point, they are _not_ Star Wars references particularly, they are references to tropes that pre-exist SW by decades.



What's your favourite film in which someone wears a black glove after they've had their hand chopped off to reveal circuitry running through their arm?


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> come on man, you know as well as I that sci fi recycles ideas constantly. But some of the touches from the last two eps are blatant SW



And there's a point there about science catching up with SCi Fi and lack of new ideas.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> On a side note - I hadn't known about barrage balloons. How tf did that escape my history lessons



That wasn't even the first episode of Doctor Who to feature them. There's a brilliant episode of Dad's Army featuring an escaped barrage balloon as well.


----------



## Santino (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> come on man, you know as well as I that sci fi recycles ideas constantly. But some of the touches from the last two eps are blatant SW



It's beyond blatant and into 'blates' territory.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> That wasn't even the first episode of Doctor Who to feature them. There's a brilliant episode of Dad's Army featuring an escaped barrage balloon as well.



I'm useless with telly/films so most of these references pass me by. But on that Dad's Army note, the last scene of Dr Who was blates ripping it out of Dad's Army too.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> It's beyond blatant and into 'blates' territory.



Blatantly blates.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 17, 2010)

I stopped counting the shout-outs / homages / whatever. Star Wars, Star Trek, Independence Day, Where Eagles Dare, Battle of Britain...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

Quartz said:


> I stopped counting the shout-outs / homages / whatever. Star Wars, Star Trek, Independence Day, Where Eagles Dare, Battle of Britain...



Certainly reminded me of independance day at one point.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

see, not being a sci fi fan, i thought the black leather clove was very doctor strangelove - especially considering the war-rooms setting.  Not that it wasn't star wars, but it was Dr Strangelove homage too, I reckon.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Certainly reminded me of independance day at one point.



Independance Day was a pile of wank. I can't watch it without falling asleep.

I'm thinking Doctor Who is straying into Starship Troopers piss-take.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 17, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Tis on iPlayer already.



Dr Who? Dr Shmoo. Wotever.

*plays with dradle*

Just echoing cesare as I thought the same thing


----------



## Quartz (Apr 17, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Certainly reminded me of independance day at one point.



Did you pay attention to the music?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

Quartz said:


> Did you pay attention to the music?



Forgotten about the music now, just some of the scenes reminded me of it.


----------



## belboid (Apr 17, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> see, not being a sci fi fan, i thought the black leather clove was very doctor strangelove - especially considering the war-rooms setting.


spot on.  nazi evil genius now working for the good guys, clearly Strangelove. 

None of which means there are _no_ SW references, there are just _other films too_.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

Armageddon pisses on Independance Day from a great height btw.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

cesare said:


> Armageddon pisses on Independance Day from a great height btw.



I don't really care either way, just saying what it reminded me of.


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 17, 2010)

1940s and an attractive young woman turns up in a mini-skirt, unthinkable in those days, and yet no-one seems to notice. You would've at least thought the soldiers would be making filthy / suggestive comments.


----------



## cesare (Apr 17, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I don't really care either way, just saying what it reminded me of.




Oh,  I wasn't having a go at you. I was just doing lols at all the references and particular lols that Dr Who is being so blatant. I think it's funny, even more funny if it's deliberate, which I suspect


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 17, 2010)

that had some enjoyable parts to it - dalek 'politeness' had me laughing out loud - but again everything was squashed into 45 mins and for the daleks to just escape once again seemed to be a bit of a pointless bridge; they may as well have just saved an episode and gone onto the next inevitable dalek two parter.

and as someone else said showing the crack in time every episode is a bit much if everything resolves itself in last couple of episodes.

eta: the writer - mark gatiss - is a huge sci-fi fan which is probably why there were a few contemporary references in there.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> that had some enjoyable parts to it - dalek 'politeness' had me laughing out loud - but again everything was squashed into 45 mins and for the daleks to just escape once again seemed to be a bit of a pointless bridge; they may as well have just saved an episode and gone onto the next inevitable dalek two parter.
> 
> and as someone else said showing the crack in time every episode is a bit much if everything resolves itself in last couple of episodes.
> 
> eta: the writer - mark gatiss - is a huge sci-fi fan which is probably why there were a few contemporary references in there.



Its too short isnt it? 45 mins just isnt long enough for the daleks. Neither is a two parter.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 17, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Its too short isnt it? 45 mins just isnt long enough for the daleks. Neither is a two parter.



i'm assuming the logic is that more people are likely to watch mostly self-contained 'one off' episodes but it works against more developed stories imo (i guess the overt crack in time refs are supposed to play that role) but oh for the cliffhangers of old.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 17, 2010)

Yeah, Gatiss wrote this. I expect better from him.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

I think daleks and cybermen are a bit boring.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 17, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> I think daleks and cybermen are a bit boring.



the reimagining of the cybermen has probably been one of the least successful aspects of the new series but i'll never tire of the daleks, especially when their latest dialogue includes lines like 'would you like a cup of tea?'  

next week's looks great, mainly because it seems the darkest so far.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

'would you like a cup of tea' made me laugh also, classic moment.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> the reimagining of the cybermen has probably been one of the least successful aspects of the new series but i'll never tire of the daleks, especially when their latest dialogue includes lines like 'would you like a cup of tea?'
> 
> next week's looks great, mainly because it seems the darkest so far.



other way around for me.  cybemen cause excruciating pain as they remove the brain of still-living humans with big knives - daleks just zap you in a split second.  i don't see why daleks are sposed to be so bad. 

but even then... I don't need to see the same baddy over and over again.  I'm sure there weren't so many repeat appearances in old-school doctor who.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 17, 2010)

I think I may have had enough of the daleks as well. What are they going to do now? They've already been prevented from not only destroying everything in the universe, or even the universe itself, but also the entire fabric of space and time and all possible universes etc etc zzz.

Actually, daleks or no daleks, can't we just have an episode with a proper story in it that isn't half an hour of non-stop RTD dramatic music and hammy Doctor-faces and fucking _spitfires in space_? The initial thing with the Daleks being on earth and so on was actually okay and I thought "oh right, this could be interesting because maybe the Daleks have infiltrated the British government and the Doctor has to spend the episode trying to find out what's going on and how" but oh no, they just _tell him_ ten minutes in and then he's left to run around and gurn for the rest of the time.

spitfires ffs


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 17, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> other way around for me.  cybemen cause excruciating pain as they remove the brain of still-living humans with big knives - daleks just zap you in a split second.  i don't see why daleks are sposed to be so bad.



previously the cybermen were a lot more sinister, rather than just stomping about everywhere as they seem to now.



spanglechick said:


> but even then... I don't need to see the same baddy over and over again.  I'm sure there weren't so many repeat appearances in old-school doctor who.



it's the 45 minute thing again. in old-school doctor who there were less stories in a series but more episodes. in a 13 episode season that's probably 9 individual stories so the daleks come around that much more often. between 'genesis of the daleks' (fourth doctor) and 'resurrection of the daleks' (fifth doctor) there was a 9 year gap.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 17, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think I may have had enough of the daleks as well. What are they going to do now? They've already been prevented from not only destroying everything in the universe, or even the universe itself, but also the entire fabric of space and time and all possible universes etc etc zzz.



indeed, to me it just seemed a vehicle to tell us that the daleks had 'regenerated' in preparation for the next dalek story.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 17, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> indeed, to me it just seemed a vehicle to tell us that the daleks had 'regenerated' in preparation for the next dalek story.



That's basically all it was.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 17, 2010)

i'll always enjoy doctor who, it just seems that the most isn't being made of an already strong new doctor and new companion.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 17, 2010)

You know what'd be the ultimate nod to Star Wars?

"_*Amy, I am your father...*_"


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Apr 17, 2010)

So the factas as far as we know them:

Amy was raised by her aunt. Parents identity / fates unknown.

Amy doesn't know who the Daleks were.

Amy looks hot in a police uniform.

Any speculative evidence to pile on?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 17, 2010)

y'know that crack, yeah?




































It's George Lucas' arsehole!



The Star Wars references are thick and fast....glad I showed Nanker Jnr Star Wars when he was 3 cos he's pointing them out to me. I didn't even think about the hand, glove connection.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> other way around for me.  cybemen cause excruciating pain as they remove the brain of still-living humans with big knives - daleks just zap you in a split second. * i don't see why daleks are sposed to be so bad. *
> 
> but even then... I don't need to see the same baddy over and over again.  I'm sure there weren't so many repeat appearances in old-school doctor who.



total and utter destruction. Thus the Master Race analogies. These aren't the japanese willing to suffer your existence as a lower sort. These are the Nazis who wish only to eradicate every life form that is not them. Always been the Dalek MO. No compromise, no survivors, just total armagideon time.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 17, 2010)

They didn't make enough of the Daleks as Master race/Nazis IMO (i.e instead of a mutli-coloured Dalek new breed...they coulda been all white....with ultimate ownership of all races, species and planets as their primary aim?)

Everything about new Dr Who seems to be a lot of guess work and fanboy thread hunting.

Be nice to see a straight story.

I am liking the new Doctor....he's channelling DT and finding his own feet.

New assistant..........phew.......I feel like a dirty old man!


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> total and utter destruction. Thus the Master Race analogies. These aren't the japanese willing to suffer your existence as a lower sort. These are the Nazis who wish only to eradicate every life form that is not them. Always been the Dalek MO. No compromise, no survivors, just total armagideon time.



But lots of doctor who baddies want total destruction.  Cybermen, sontarans, all the ones that 'infect' a spaceship/station and threaten to be transmitted to earth...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> But lots of doctor who baddies want total destruction.  Cybermen, sontarans, all the ones that 'infect' a spaceship/station and threaten to be transmitted to earth...



cybermen want 'conversion' which is not the same. Sontarans are willing to accept proper warriors, as is thier culture, the infection sorts are just doing it to breed. The Daleks are a breed apart, made and desirous of total dominance. No survivors, just a kill them all philosophy. Th Dalek race is all, and as we saw tonight they had better be pure dalek else they get the ray gun.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> cybermen want 'conversion' which is not the same. Sontarans are willing to accept proper warriors, as is thier culture, the infection sorts are just doing it to breed. The Daleks are a breed apart, made and desirous of total dominance. No survivors, just a kill them all philosophy. Th Dalek race is all, and as we saw tonight they had better be pure dalek else they get the ray gun.



but - from the perspective of a mrs average earthling, none of that makes any difference.  everyone dies, or everyone dies.

much more upsetting was the 10% of the children thing from that torchwood mini series, or life in the year that never was when the master took over.  sudden death is merciful in comparison.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 17, 2010)

AKA 'wow, who started making torchwood good!?' 

The fear=factor of the Daleks was always the unrelenting mission to kill everyone. From old series to new they have suffered a 'borg decline' but this is pretty much a setup episode for them to become the sheer terror force they were back in the day.


----------



## strung out (Apr 17, 2010)

it was ok. bit cringeworthy in places, but also had some great moments.

not a classic, but was very typical gatiss. looking forward to next week!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 18, 2010)

Bit shit that.

And the new day glo daleks looked like they belonged on one of the roundabouts on clacton pier.


----------



## janeb (Apr 18, 2010)

Was disappointed, but suspect that's because I was hugely looking forward to this - but the Amy story continues to get more interesting, why doesn't she remember the Daleks, different timeline or alternate universe?  

Also, there's something going on with the new Dr and time, he was a month late meeting Churchill, previously there was all the mix up over time passing with Amy...


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 18, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> previously the cybermen were a lot more sinister, rather than just stomping about everywhere as they seem to now.
> 
> 
> 
> it's the 45 minute thing again. in old-school doctor who there were less stories in a series but more episodes. in a 13 episode season that's probably 9 individual stories so the daleks come around that much more often. between 'genesis of the daleks' (fourth doctor) and 'resurrection of the daleks' (fifth doctor) there was a 9 year gap.



There was a dalek story called "destiny of the daleks" between those two. I'm telling you because anyone else who corrected you would of been rather rude. I'm surprised you lasted this long. Also I thought tonights episode was OK though I agree the 45 minute format did the story little justice.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 18, 2010)

Genesis of the daleks is unlikely ever to be bettered though is it?


----------



## Santino (Apr 18, 2010)

janeb said:


> Was disappointed, but suspect that's because I was hugely looking forward to this - but the Amy story continues to get more interesting, why doesn't she remember the Daleks, different timeline or alternate universe?
> 
> Also, there's something going on with the new Dr and time, he was a month late meeting Churchill, previously there was all the mix up over time passing with Amy...



Tennant used to be a bit rubbish over details like that too. Getting Rose a month late home for Christmas, that kind of thing. It's because the TARDIS is meant to have more than one pilot and he can't do everything by himself.


----------



## ethel (Apr 18, 2010)

next week's episode is going to give me nightmares


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> Tennant used to be a bit rubbish over details like that too. Getting Rose a month late home for Christmas, that kind of thing. It's because the TARDIS is meant to have more than one pilot and he can't do everything by himself.



no, it is because it is a type 40 he twoced back in the day and the poor thing aint never worked right since. The whole reason it looks like a Police Box is cos the chameleon circuit got stuck. Must I school you always santino?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Genesis of the daleks is unlikely ever to be bettered though is it?



I think you will find that Remembrance of the Daleks is the better story.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 18, 2010)

Although I watched genesis this morning and its bloody good.


----------



## ovaltina (Apr 18, 2010)

I felt sorry for the old, scruffy Daleks. The new ones are scary.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> There was a dalek story called "destiny of the daleks" between those two. I'm telling you because anyone else who corrected you would of been rather rude. I'm surprised you lasted this long. Also I thought tonights episode was OK though I agree the 45 minute format did the story little justice.



you are of course right, not quite sure how i got that wrong


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> Although I watched genesis this morning and its bloody good.



it's got the classic scene where the doctor's wrestling with his conscience as he decides whether or not to destroy the daleks before they're created plus michael wisher's davros is especially effective.


----------



## strung out (Apr 18, 2010)

but do i have the right?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 18, 2010)

Very, very poor and disappointing. There's absolutely no point in doing history episodes unless there's something different and oblique to say about the era. The Doctor sees things differently; that is the point. But it was a Ladybird view of Churchill, the brave forces and the plucky ARP warden. Nothing subversive and nothing challenging about it, at all. 

The Ironsides were a nice idea but they reverted to type far, far too quickly: there was no chance for the Doctor, or for Amy to question even for a second the threat they posed. Compare Rose and the lonely eponymous relic in _Dalek_. 

And that's twice in a row that the pictish bint has saved the day through her superior feminine and earthling intuition, stopping the silly Timelord from getting it wrong. The balance is wrong: if a plucky ginger will always display more wisdom than Gallifreyans then there's little point in the Doctor.

This is a worry. It's one thing Mark Gatiss doing crappy SF with crappy space battles and tedious laser dogfights. That's just Gatiss. But it's quite another that Moffat has a crush on the assistant. The lead writer has joined Matt Smith in the opening sequence of _The Beast Below_, holding Gillam's ankle and staring up her skirt in awe and delight. It doesn't bode well.


----------



## Santino (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> no, it is because it is a type 40 he twoced back in the day and the poor thing aint never worked right since. The whole reason it looks like a Police Box is cos the chameleon circuit got stuck. Must I school you always santino?



Wasn't there a McCoy or Baker II story when the chameleon circuit went funny and the TARDIS kept changing shape?


----------



## fogbat (Apr 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> Wasn't there a McCoy or Baker II story when the chameleon circuit went funny and the TARDIS kept changing shape?



I'm sure I remember seeing that when I was younger. Didn't it briefly turn into a piano?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 18, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I'm sure I remember seeing that when I was younger. Didn't it briefly turn into a piano?


 
The Doctor emerged from behind it each time; they couldn't be arsed to build doors onto the various props.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

i think it was 'the mark of the rani' with the sixth doctor altho i couldn't say for certain.


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 18, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> I felt sorry for the old, scruffy Daleks. The new ones are scary.



I thought them less scary, probably 'cos of the bright paint jobs.

The ones that were serving Churchill looked really crap, I think it was sticking the little Union Jack on them that did it.


----------



## janeb (Apr 18, 2010)

I liked the ones serving Churchill, they looked functional and battered, and proper evil when you saw them in the background just going past or watching what was going on, pretending to be on our side but really the big bad - do think they could have played that for longer, make the Dr look like he's loosing it or getting paranoid so Churchill would have doubted the Dr more


----------



## fubert (Apr 18, 2010)

I liked the episode 

"do you require tea ?"

As for the new Daleks... does anyone else remember when Apple launched the old iMacs in different colours ? There's an Apple sticker on them somewhere


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 18, 2010)

Esepcailly annoying was the lazy writing - 

Daleks tell doctor their evil plan (again) whilst failing to exterminate him on the spot (again). FFS - that is so shit. 

I thought it would be one of those moral conondrums about the dangers of being in league with the devil in order to survive and how power corrupts etc - maybe Winston's daleks could have led to Britain going fascist and subjecating the world - and then the daleks launch their coup.

But no ...


----------



## Santino (Apr 18, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> And that's twice in a row that the pictish bint has saved the day through her superior feminine and earthling intuition, stopping the silly Timelord from getting it wrong. The balance is wrong: if a plucky ginger will always display more wisdom than Gallifreyans then there's little point in the Doctor.


He's still finding his feet in his new incarnation. This could be a series-long arc, realising he's been making mistakes, being led by Amy (whoever she turns out to be).


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

Kaka Tim said:


> Esepcailly annoying was the lazy writing -
> 
> Daleks tell doctor their evil plan (again) whilst failing to exterminate him on the spot (again). FFS - that is so shit.
> 
> ...



I think you may be asking a lot from a family show tbf. I know that is the cop out everyone calls to defend a shite episode but in this case I don't think the episode was shite. Just not as good as it should have been. But scope for introspection on the nature of fascism and deals with the devil? nah.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 18, 2010)

If they can't avoid that sort of tally-ho-biggles Cartoon Churchill balls I'd rather they just didn't try. I'm happy enough with Who's anglocentrism generally, but it usually takes a far better line on the government, satirical, cynical  or even just comic.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> There was a dalek story called "destiny of the daleks" between those two. .



I loved that one as a kid. I like how creator and writer Terry Nation forgot that the Daleks were not robots. The whole plot hinges on the fact that they are.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> Wasn't there a McCoy or Baker II story when the chameleon circuit went funny and the TARDIS kept changing shape?



It was Colin Baker's story Attack Of The Cybermen and it changed into a.... thing:







...then a church organ which actually played and finally an ornamental gate which was hidden in the shadows.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

Why o why did they give shouty that stupid coat.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why o why did they give shouty that stupid coat.



i think everyone thought that was a disaster apart from JNT.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

I like it when the master steps out from behind his shitty tardis'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 18, 2010)

cesare said:


> It's not so terrible.



Oh dear.

cesare and the button. The Mike and Bernie Winters of Urban.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

They mention in one ep that the tardis was once a chair. How they fuck would you open the door on that?


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 18, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> previously the cybermen were a lot more sinister, rather than just stomping about everywhere as they seem to now.
> 
> 
> 
> it's the 45 minute thing again. in old-school doctor who there were less stories in a series but more episodes. in a 13 episode season that's probably 9 individual stories so the daleks come around that much more often. between 'genesis of the daleks' (fourth doctor) and 'resurrection of the daleks' (fifth doctor) there was a 9 year gap.



What about Destiny Of The Daleks?


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> What about Destiny Of The Daleks?



someone's already corrected me on this


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> not sure why the crack was shoehorned in at the last minute though



Perhaps whoever/whatever created the crack also created Ms Pond, and wherever she is, it manifests?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 18, 2010)

belboid said:


> you miss the point, they are _not_ Star Wars references particularly, they are references to tropes that pre-exist SW by decades.



Reminds me of Doctor Taylor's "one hundred Malcolms equal one Bernard" in the "Planet of the Dead" special, which was a nice little tribute to professor Quatermass.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 18, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> They mention in one ep that the tardis was once a chair. How they fuck would you open the door on that?



It was a sedan chair. As in "Sedan and shaddup!"


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 18, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> This is a worry. It's one thing Mark Gatiss doing crappy SF with crappy space battles and tedious laser dogfights. That's just Gatiss. But it's quite another that Moffat has a crush on the assistant. The lead writer has joined Matt Smith in the opening sequence of _The Beast Below_, holding Gillam's ankle and staring up her skirt in awe and delight. It doesn't bode well.



That's how I feel at the moment. I really, really hope it's all part of an elaborate plan and arc and will feed into some awesome final episode gambit.

But ...


----------



## strung out (Apr 18, 2010)

Kaka Tim said:


> Esepcailly annoying was the lazy writing -
> 
> Daleks tell doctor their evil plan (again) whilst failing to exterminate him on the spot (again). FFS - that is so shit.
> 
> ...



britain going fascist and taking over the world? you have to remember that dr who very very rarely actually changes major parts of our own history. if something like that had happened, they would only have had to change it all back in a re-load type style which doubtless would have had everyone moaning about that instead.

it wasn't a travesty of an episode, yes it was weak, but then every other series of doctor who/long running tv show has weak episodes too.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 18, 2010)

"The final end!"

Also said by Troughton at the end of The Evil Of The Daleks as the Dalek city burns at the end of the Dalek civil war.

Should I bother doing a clip?


----------



## cesare (Apr 18, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> cesare and the button. The Mike and Bernie Winters of Urban.



I'd forgotten about them


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Should I bother doing a clip?



yes please!


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 18, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> yes please!



Pick one.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+final+end+dr.who&aq=f


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Pick one.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+final+end+dr.who&aq=f



the dalek emperor wasn't too happy


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

That's on one of the troughton DVDs. The ep that follows it I think.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> That's on one of the troughton DVDs. The ep that follows it I think.



i watched 'the invasion' a while ago and thought that the animation that replaced the lost episodes was done so well, it fitted perfectly.


----------



## wrysmile (Apr 18, 2010)

It was alright - at best. 

The new Dr's head annoys me though, it's weirdly rectangular. I also found David Tennant's overacting endearing, whereas on this one it sort of doesn't wash. Ah well, I'll stick with it, maybe he'll grow on me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i watched 'the invasion' a while ago and thought that the animation that replaced the lost episodes was done so well, it fitted perfectly.



Yeah, in a way it was somehow even more fun than the real episodes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

Those little Union flags on the daleks reminded me of those SS uniforms provided for the tiny regiment of scum fucker british SS.


Probably intentional. I keep thinking I'm reading too much into it then Moffat chats on Confidential and I realise I'm not reading enough into it compared to him and his bastard ability to write a good story.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 18, 2010)

I thought the WW2 Daleks looked terrific - they had the old Dalek design, which is quite retro anyway, and the paint job and little pouches and so on that really did give them a bit of the appopriate aesthetic. If the British Army had had Daleks, that's what they would have looked like.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 18, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> They mention in one ep that the tardis was once a chair. How they fuck would you open the door on that?



You'd have to hope nobody was sitting on it at the time.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Those little Union flags on the daleks reminded me of those SS uniforms provided for the tiny regiment of scum fucker british SS.
> 
> 
> Probably intentional. I keep thinking I'm reading too much into it then Moffat chats on Confidential and I realise I'm not reading enough into it compared to him and his bastard ability to write a good story.



well it would be if they had actually existed outside of tin foil hatter land...

(there were some British in the Frie Korps but around 27 or so and that's not a regiment it's a division or battalion at best...)


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 18, 2010)

Charlie Brooker has describe Matt Smith as...

'a friendly Easter Island statue in a bow tie'


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> well it would be if they had actually existed outside of tin foil hatter land...
> 
> (there were some British in the Frie Korps but around 27 or so and that's not a regiment it's a division or battalion at best...)



Sven Hassel wouldn't lie to me.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Sven Hassel wouldn't lie to me.



http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/british_free.htm


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

> In April 1944, Roy was promoted to Unterscharfuehrer (Waffen SS Sergeant) and he began touring prison camps trying to recruit others, especially New Zealanders. He succeeded in persuading six men from 28 Battalion to volunteer, but they were eventually turned down by the SS.* During one recruiting visit he was punched in the face by an outraged New Zealande*r.




I approve of this.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Sven Hassel wouldn't lie to me.



Wasn't it Where Eagles Dare? So it'd be Jack Higgins?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I approve of this.



You've met LDR right they're all like that after a few bevvies


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

I believe brit free corp get a brief mention in Hassels 'Reign of Hell'


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

it had it flaws  but  i found it  far far better than  just  about  every other  dalek episode  of the  new doctor who era

the coloured daleks  are fine  by me  as  it  fits  a  retro feel  (rember the black gold and red daleks?)

the good old winston bit  really  did  grate  with me  but  then i am  technically  irish and therefore contractually obligated  to  hate him

to be honest  i thought RTD pretty much  raped killed  then sang the whole of  springtime for hitler on the grave of the daleks   and  any story  where they arn't  being royally fucked over  feels like an improvements

and if  any of you  think that's an unfair statement  then i have one thing  to say to you "the memory cheats"


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I believe brit free corp get a brief mention in Hassels 'Reign of Hell'



Really? It's been a very long time indeed since I read that - I don't remember tbh.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> it had it flaws  but  i found it  far far better than  just  about  every other  dalek episode  of the  new doctor who era



'dalek' was absolutely brilliant, probably my favourite episode of the new era along with 'blink'. 

it would've been so easy to have botched the reintroduction of the daleks and done it by numbers but instead of going for all out dalek fleet attack they stripped it down to a single dalek who's plight engendered a certain amount of audience empathy in the end.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

yes  dalek was good   but  for that  it makes me hate it  even more  it   gave  me the false hope  that    the new series  was going to be  great  and they  were going to treat all the old  monster  with  respect  and  dignity    which  is  why  the  following kick to the nadgers  hurt so much..  it's  not that they  can't make great  doctor who episodes   it's  that they  chose not to


also   please please please  stopt   licking the  doctors  ring piece     we  all know  he is  brill   we  don't  need  everyone on screen telling us  this  every  5 minuets   it was so much better   when  everyone  treated him like  some  random nutter  even the brig and  chums at UNIT  treated  him  like  the  uncle  you love dearly  but  wouldn't  go out in public  with


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 18, 2010)

Confession time: when Amy called out "Oh, Churchill" near the end, how many people thought she was going to ask for an insurance quote?


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 18, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> Confession time: when Amy called out "Oh, Churchill" near the end, how many people thought she was going to ask for an insurance quote?



Oh yes...

My kids were yelling for it


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> yes  dalek was good   but  for that  it makes me hate it  even more  it   gave  me the false hope  that    the new series  was going to be  great  and they  were going to treat all the old  monster  with  respect  and  dignity    which  is  why  the  following kick to the nadgers  hurt so much..  it's  not that they  can't make great  doctor who episodes   it's  that they  chose not to
> 
> 
> also   please please please  stopt   licking the  doctors  ring piece     we  all know  he is  brill   we  don't  need  everyone on screen telling us  this  every  5 minuets   it was so much better   when  everyone  treated him like  some  random nutter  even the brig and  chums at UNIT  treated  him  like  the  uncle  you love dearly  but  wouldn't  go out in public  with




I agree that we have heard him say 'I'm the Doctor' in a priapic manner once to often. 

We know mate, you are the hardest renegade in the known worlds. Stop shouting about it.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I agree that we have heard him say 'I'm the Doctor' in a priapic manner once to often.



today i have learned what 'priapic' means


----------



## wrysmile (Apr 18, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> also   please please please  stopt   licking the  doctors  ring piece     we  all know  he is  brill   we  don't  need  everyone on screen telling us  this  every  5 minuets   it was so much better   when  everyone  treated him like  some  random nutter  even the brig and  chums at UNIT  treated  him  like  the  uncle  you love dearly  but  wouldn't  go out in public  with



Exactly! He's meant to be an oddball renegade, not a recognised hero - now it's all this gurning face and 'I'm THE DOCTOR' every 5 mins. Bloody annoying!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 18, 2010)

wrysmile said:


> Exactly! He's meant to be an oddball renegade, not a recognised hero - now it's all this gurning face and 'I'm THE DOCTOR' every 5 mins. Bloody annoying!



yeah this gets to me too.


----------



## Santino (Apr 18, 2010)

He's changed though. He's older an' shit.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

iut  worked  when  it  was  a mad retort

there is a great  bit  (i think it's in state of decay)  where  these  big  wigs  give on overthe top  introduction  on the lines of  "we are the ancient most powerful sages in funny outfits etc etc"  to which the doctor tacks on " ....and i'm the doctor!"  in the way only tom can

it work briliently  partly  because  to these overly self important people  he was a random nutter  and it was a title that ment nothing to them   he  was  just  using  it  in the way  he  would barge in and  act like   he was important   so  people  thought he was  or  act like  a  total  loon to people  in power because  he  is a little anarchistic


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

Old who weeps for new who as I do.


----------



## Santino (Apr 18, 2010)

Down with change!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 18, 2010)

The thing is that he isn't actually all that brill now. The Doctor is meant to be an eccentric genius, which has to be demonstrated by him doing eccentric things which turn out to be clever, like, say, putting a glass of water on the ground and saying "aha no engines being used here".

We're not hugely demanding as viewers, we don't expect anything astounding, but "aha I have invented a computer virus! and spread it around the world in no time! which does a stupid thing!" is just "I am MAGIC DOCTOR and I can do ANYTHING if it will save this episode from just not making sense". There is a reason why the deus ex machina is considered a bad plot device; it's lazy and ruins consistency.

In the latest episode, he's just eccentric, not even magic - he barely comes up with anything at all apart from "aha I will hit this dalek with a giant spanner until it confesses the plot".


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> Down with change!



change, my dear, and it seems not a moment too soon


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

yeah

he should have just reversed the polarity of the neutron flow


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

the problem  with  the  computer virus bit  wasn't that it was a technical cop-out  it was   if the  giant eyeballs  are monitoring the  worlds  systems CAN'T HE JUST FUCKING  TELL THEM  WHERE  THE ALIEN IS!!!

if it's  reversing the polarity of the neutron flow  so  the warp field collapses  i  can deal with  
it's doing  something big  and over the top and nonsensical  that i hate


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

also  episode  where people  pray to the  doctor... he is a time lord  not  a fucking  god     

this was brought to a head  in the episode  where  the doctor  uses the  power of human  love to give  the master a fucking care bear stare


----------



## Melinda (Apr 18, 2010)

wrysmile said:


> It was alright - at best.
> 
> The new Dr's head annoys me though, it's weirdly rectangular. I also found David Tennant's overacting endearing, whereas on this one it sort of doesn't wash. Ah well, I'll stick with it, maybe he'll grow on me.





ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Old who weeps for new who as I do.



I dont believe him in the role yet. The writing isnt helping plus Im beginning to not like his squashy face. 

Lets see how short Amy's skirt is next week.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2010)

Amy is a stone cold red fox and I will not hear a word against her.

Plus she can act. Bonus.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> reversing the polarity of the neutron flow  so  the warp field collapses








"Just like filling a giant balloon with air until it bursts! Brilliant!"


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 18, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> the problem  with  the  computer virus bit  wasn't that it was a technical cop-out  it was   if the  giant eyeballs  are monitoring the  worlds  systems CAN'T HE JUST FUCKING  TELL THEM  WHERE  THE ALIEN IS!!!
> 
> if it's  reversing the polarity of the neutron flow  so  the warp field collapses  i  can deal with
> it's doing  something big  and over the top and nonsensical  that i hate



Well that's the thing isn't it - we forgive made-up bollocks but only to an extent, and when it's doing too much without even trying to counter the most obvious objections, we reject it.

e.g. not only spaceflight technology suddenly being perfected based on the dreams of a Dalek android in the bath (and also zapguns) but the technology being built and spitfires being retrofitted in a couple of minutes before German bombers arrive.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 18, 2010)

Melinda said:


> I dont believe him in the role yet. The writing isnt helping plus Im beginning to not like his squashy face.
> 
> Lets see how short Amy's skirt is next week.



Nah all of the new who, not just this schoolboy chap. Look at Shippys et els comments. It's like sodding harry potter in space.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

yeah  they could have handles it  better  i noticed  this was a budget episode  with  all the stuff being  bbc studios  or  cg   so     perhaps  there  were some constraints    but     some foreshadowing  like a big blue print of  a spitfire in the office   and   maybe   when the planes  attack at the beginning  dropping  a reference  such  as  "should we  we  launch X squadron?  No, let's see how the ironsides handle this one. "  could have swung it     because  i did  like   the spitfires in space bit  even if it  made  no fucking sense what so ever (what about  air   how the fuck do  they  fly  or the pilots breath????)


----------



## Balbi (Apr 18, 2010)

I was too busy laughing at the 'neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeow' sounds they were making


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

it's like  why  dalek gave us  hope  then  shoved  cold sick in our face  later  on     the real reason these  episodes  feel  like betrals  is  episodes  like dalek, blink   and silence in the library  they remind us  how  good  who  can  be  and  it   throws light  on  the  bits  that look rushed   or poorly written 

if this  episode   had   been  stuck  between  two  RTD wankathons  i would have probably thought  it  was an outstanding episode    but now moffats in charge  i fell  that   it should  be fantastic... not  just  a lot better


----------



## Melinda (Apr 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Amy is a stone cold red fox and I will not hear a word against her.
> 
> Plus she can act. Bonus.


The cameramen must be filming on their knees to get some of the shots they have.

She's hot but its not enough, Im really underwhelmed so far. Perhaps they should have left it a year or two after David.


----------



## Melinda (Apr 18, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Nah all of the new who, not just this schoolboy chap. Look at Shippys et els comments. It's like sodding harry potter in space.



I see that these fellows are making a return next week:





Why is Moffat revisiting Blink? Hopefully River Song's return will have inspired a step up in the quality of action and story telling.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 18, 2010)

Melinda said:


> Why is Moffat revisiting Blink? .


 
Because people liked it and he didn't have any new ideas.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 18, 2010)

Blink 2.

I bet it'll be really good.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

geting two of the highlights of previous season together in one episode

this will either be fantastic  blatant fan service   or  shit  blatant fan service


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

i'm already  getting  sequel dread


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 18, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> geting two of the highlights of previous season together in one episode
> 
> this will either be fantastic  blatant fan service   or  shit  blatant fan service



they were different seasons.  Blink was a Martha episode (although it was sally sparrow, really, obv) and The river song two-parter was during the Donna series.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 18, 2010)

i missed an s off seasons


----------



## belboid (Apr 19, 2010)

I love this new series already.  If only because of the hatred from fuck-witted morons who obviously haven't watched closely, don't understand how TV actually works, and have incredibly picky memories of the older Who's


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm looking forward to seeing River Snog.  She's more my age than that lassie Pond.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2010)

Ha.  I'm leaving the typo.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2010)

Alex Kingston is a Milf, I totally would.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 19, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> 9 individual stories so the daleks come around that much more often. between 'genesis of the daleks' (fourth doctor) and 'resurrection of the daleks' (fifth doctor) there was a 9 year gap.



Apart from 1979's Destiny of the Daleks, mind


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 19, 2010)

jer said:


> Apart from 1979's Destiny of the Daleks, mind



i stand thrice corrected.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 19, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i stand thrice corrected.



Ooops, sorry. Kinds sped throught the thread. Mind you, as it wasn't the most memorable story, it's hardly a crime


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 19, 2010)

It was a great idea for story just a pity it was poorly realised and about robots and not daleks. I like it in resurrection when you find out the daleks are almost completely wiped out by a movellan virus that attacked their organic components. Ah so they're not robots after all. Is Destiny any less memorable than Resurection? I guess the fact someone forgot it and that Tom Baker also starred in the best ever Dalek story suggest so but in terms of quality there is little between them.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 19, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> It was a great idea for story just a pity it was poorly realised and about robots and not daleks. I like it in resurrection when you find out the daleks are almost completely wiped out by a movellan virus that attacked their organic components. Ah so they're not robots after all. Is Destiny any less memorable than Resurection? I guess the fact someone forgot it and that Tom Baker also starred in the best ever Dalek story suggest so but in terms of quality there is little between them.



My girlfriends been stranded in Hong Kong for less than  week and this is what I have become.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 19, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i'm already  getting  sequel dread



Just wait until we get to Blink 182.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 19, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> My girlfriends been stranded in Hong Kong for less than week and this is what I have become.


 
By girlfriend you mean blowup doll and by stranded you mean held in the warehouse until airmail is restored, don't you?

As after reading that you can't imagine that we'll believe you have a real girlfriend now do you?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Blink 2.
> 
> I bet it'll be really good.





Shippou-Chan said:


> i'm already  getting  sequel dread



Don't be so cynical. Apparently my old school chum (i've upgraded him from kid in the year below who I ignored) chases the remaining angels through the 'Maze of Death'

Which sounds awesome. And Moll Flanders.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2010)

yeah  but  WWII daleks  had  me  shouting WHITE WEE WEE IN A DARK ROOM!!!*



*obscure joke


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 19, 2010)

jer said:


> Ooops, sorry. Kinds sped throught the thread. Mind you, as it wasn't the most memorable story, it's hardly a crime



It's one story that really stuck in my mind. Finding out the movalans were robots blew my mind. 
I watched it recently and it was a bit of a let down though. 

There were two or three parts from that story that really stuck with me.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 19, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> It was a great idea for story just a pity it was poorly realised and about robots and not daleks. I like it in resurrection when you find out the daleks are almost completely wiped out by a movellan virus that attacked their organic components. Ah so they're not robots after all. Is Destiny any less memorable than Resurection? I guess the fact someone forgot it and that Tom Baker also starred in the best ever Dalek story suggest so but in terms of quality there is little between them.



Resurrection is creepy, those scenes with the fake cops walking around the dilapidated docklands, shooting escapees... and the violence level was quite up there. You had a real sense of menace, which I don't really find in the new dalek stories...


----------



## strung out (Apr 19, 2010)

i liked revelation of the daleks. especially the bit when alexei sayle gets exterminated


----------



## fen_boy (Apr 19, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> yeah  but  WWII daleks  had  me  shouting WHITE WEE WEE IN A DARK ROOM!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> *obscure joke



That's not obscure it's from TV Offal.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 19, 2010)

jer said:


> Resurrection is creepy, those scenes with the fake cops walking around the dilapidated docklands, shooting escapees... and the violence level was quite up there. You had a real sense of menace, which I don't really find in the new dalek stories...



Plus that annoying air hostess went home.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2010)

sorry

*obscene joke


but  no seriously  do that many people remember the gay daleks?


----------



## MikeMcc (Apr 19, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Blink 2.
> 
> I bet it'll be really good.


Can't be any worse than the rubbish they've dished up so far in this series.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 19, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Plus that annoying air hostess went home.



I quite liked Tegan, ballsy, you know?


----------



## strung out (Apr 19, 2010)

i preferred nyssa. phwoar!







though the first romana was the hottest companion


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 19, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i preferred nyssa. phwoar!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, Mary Tamm was very agreeable. Still had it, years later in Brookside.

I'm waiting for the infamous Katy Manning/Dalek pics to appear any minute, now


----------



## belboid (Apr 19, 2010)

belboid said:


> you'll be slagging him off within three episodes.....





belboid said:


> make that two episodes...





Limejuice said:


> Rubbish production.
> 
> Incidental music squashed the dialogue in several places.
> 
> ...



told you 

Tis a shame how so many just dont get how telly works


----------



## strung out (Apr 19, 2010)

belboid said:


> told you


----------



## strung out (Apr 19, 2010)

jer said:


> I'm waiting for the infamous Katy Manning/Dalek pics to appear any minute, now



my brother's just shared a train back from cardiff with her


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 19, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Charlie Brooker has describe Matt Smith as...
> 
> 'a friendly Easter Island statue in a bow tie'



Steven Moffat described him as a Bo' Selecta caricature of a handsome man. 

I was underwhelmed with this one. I didn't buy Churchill as a bluff old cove, everyone knows he was a right gloomy bastard. Mark Gatiss writes forgettable Doctor Who stories- The Idiot's Lantern and the Victorian one from the Eccleston series were his other efforts.

There were a few pluses- he barely used the sonic screwdriver (and even then not for anything important), and he extracted the Dalek plan by menacing them with a Jammy Dodger, which is more the sort of thing he should be doing.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 19, 2010)

Gromit said:


> By girlfriend you mean blowup doll and by stranded you mean held in the warehouse until airmail is restored, don't you?
> 
> As after reading that you can't imagine that we'll believe you have a real girlfriend now do you?



Old habits die hard and resurface quickly when not being called a sad git regularly. This usually happens when I refer to people on the internet as "me and the guys".


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 19, 2010)

jer said:


> Resurrection is creepy, those scenes with the fake cops walking around the dilapidated docklands, shooting escapees... and the violence level was quite up there. You had a real sense of menace, which I don't really find in the new dalek stories...



the 'escaped dalek' also works well too.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 19, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Steven Moffat described him as a Bo' Selecta caricature of a handsome man.
> 
> I was underwhelmed with this one. I didn't buy Churchill as a bluff old cove, everyone knows he was a right gloomy bastard. Mark Gatiss writes forgettable Doctor Who stories- The Idiot's Lantern and the Victorian one from the Eccleston series were his other efforts.
> 
> There were a few pluses- he barely used the sonic screwdriver (and even then not for anything important), and he extracted the Dalek plan by menacing them with a Jammy Dodger, which is more the sort of thing he should be doing.



Very "deadly jelly baby" I thought. I've aso noticed a lack of psychic paper. Looks like the doctor will have to rely on his wits and bluffng more than he has recently.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 19, 2010)

strung_out said:


> my brother's just shared a train back from cardiff with her



She's reprising her role as Jo Grant in the next series of the Sarah Jane Adventures apparently. Matt Smith's appearing in the same two-part story which is going to be written by Russell T Davies.


----------



## strung out (Apr 19, 2010)

yup, they had the read-through in cardiff today


----------



## belboid (Apr 19, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> I've aso noticed a lack of psychic paper. Looks like the doctor will have to rely on his wits and bluffng more than he has recently.



Used once already, to receive a message for the Doctor, rather than showing one 'from' him tho.  Seems to be relying more on Amys wits at the moment, tho hopefully that's just cos he's only just getting himself back together after regenerating.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 19, 2010)

strung_out said:


> yup, they had the read-through in cardiff today



I'm really looking forward to seeing Jo Grant again – her and Pertwee were the Doctor/companion team I best remember from when I was a kid.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 19, 2010)

jer said:


> I'm waiting for the infamous Katy Manning/Dalek pics to appear any minute, now



search for the 'worst doctor who companion' thread, you won't be disappointed


----------



## likesfish (Apr 19, 2010)

spitfires in space stupid but made of win spitfires with lasers your sharks and bear Calvary are fucked


----------



## ericjarvis (Apr 19, 2010)

I wanted to like that episode. I really tried to like it. I just couldn't. How the fuck do you combine Daleks, Spitfires, air raid wardens in the blitz, cyborgs, Churchill, Karen Gillan, and the new Tardis, and end up with crap? It's a hell of an achievement.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 19, 2010)

belboid said:


> Used once already, to receive a message for the Doctor, rather than showing one 'from' him tho.  Seems to be relying more on Amys wits at the moment, tho hopefully that's just cos he's only just getting himself back together after regenerating.



He did flash it actually in the first episode when he managed to link up with the web-conference.  No real reference was made to it though.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2010)

it  had loads of nice moments  but it was a sum of less of it's parts

it  may  have actually  worked  better as a two parter     with the  first  half   focusing  on  the mystery of  the ironsides   and their  strange  subservient presence   as well as   the  roll out  of alien tech  to  special departments   and  got  to know  the  pilots of  the  new spitfires  

that  way   when  the testiment  was used at the end of  the episode  the scene  could switch  to  outer space for  the  second  episode   and  we  could  go a bit more into  the dalek  story  and  see  the brave lads  decide  to  go up and  try  to help the  doctor   so  we  actually  kind of  give a fuck  when they  die

(as it was all i knew of the pilots  were they were Wilhelm screams  in flight jackets)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 20, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i preferred nyssa. phwoar!



Good lord no. None of that lot could act for toffee. Adric Nissa and Tegan all in the same tardis. Ugh. Made Davidson look pretty amazing though.

If we are going to Phwoar. 














Oh hang on a minute, what was that I said about Tegan?


----------



## nightowl (Apr 20, 2010)

Stories like resurrection had a dark edge while some of the current stuff just feels very comic book at the moment. I half expected Bernard Cribbins to appear behind the camp daleks


----------



## hektik (Apr 20, 2010)

YAY!

I'd make an amazing doctor.


----------



## hektik (Apr 20, 2010)

a little bit of a teaser clip for the next episode:

http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/Cameron-K-McEwan/?action=view&current=angeldclip.flv

do I need to say that it's a MASSIVE SPOILER. no plot popints, but it is a clip from the next episode.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 20, 2010)

hektik said:


> a little bit of a teaser clip for the next episode:
> 
> http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/nn277/Cameron-K-McEwan/?action=view&current=angeldclip.flv
> 
> do I need to say that it's a MASSIVE SPOILER. no plot popints, but it is a clip from the next episode.


----------



## belboid (Apr 20, 2010)

that better not come to pass, or there'll be serious trouble


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 20, 2010)

*unsubscribes*


----------



## belboid (Apr 20, 2010)

aah, I read Private Eye very slowly on the bog each day, so I've only just come across the explanation as to why the daleks were so charmingly multi-coloured:


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2010)

bbc worldwide are twats


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 20, 2010)

must.resist.new.merch.

Damn them to hell, playing me like a childish fiddle


----------



## fogbat (Apr 20, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> must.resist.new.merch.
> 
> Damn them to hell, playing me like a childish fiddle



Fiddling you, like a playful child


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 20, 2010)

strung_out said:


> bbc worldwide are twats



BBWW have no say in the development of storylines, afaik.


----------



## Echo Base (Apr 20, 2010)

I liked how obsolete Daleks can shoot dozens of planes out of the sky but brand new uber-Daleks cant shoot one bloke running in front of them from 10 feet away.


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2010)

jer said:


> BBWW have no say in the development of storylines, afaik.



i wouldn't know. they're still twats


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 20, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i wouldn't know. they're still twats



Then don't make assumptions, hmmm? 

Anyway, what pop sci-fi shows/films don't have merch for the kids?

That goes back pre-Star Wars - all the way back to er, Doctor Who - in the 60s - pre BBCWW or BBC Enterprises.


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2010)

jer said:


> Then don't make assumptions, hmmm?
> 
> Anyway, what pop sci-fi shows/films don't have merch for the kids?
> 
> That goes back pre-Star Wars - all the way back to er, Doctor Who - in the 60s - pre BBCWW or BBC Enterprises.



oh, my reasons for thinking BBCW are twats is nothing to do with the above story. they're twats for other reasons completely (though still doctor who related).


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 20, 2010)

strung_out said:


> oh, my reasons for thinking BBCW are twats is nothing to do with the above story. they're twats for other reasons completely (though still doctor who related).



Go on, then... elaborate...


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2010)

sorry, can't!


----------



## hektik (Apr 20, 2010)

belboid said:


> that better not come to pass, or there'll be serious trouble




what, me being the doctor? 

or you talking bout something else?


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 20, 2010)

strung_out said:


> sorry, can't!



Ok mate, I think I understand


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 20, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> it  may  have actually  worked  better as a two parter     with the  first  half   focusing  on  the mystery of  the ironsides   and their  strange  subservient presence   as well as   the  roll out  of alien tech  to  special departments   and  got  to know  the  pilots of  the  new spitfires
> 
> that  way   when  the testiment  was used at the end of  the episode  the scene  could switch  to  outer space for  the  second  episode   and  we  could  go a bit more into  the dalek  story  and  see  the brave lads  decide  to  go up and  try  to help the  doctor   so  we  actually  kind of  give a fuck  when they  die



Spot on I reckon


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 20, 2010)

strung_out said:


> sorry, can't!



ELABORATE!   E-LAB-O-RATE!!!!

[/dalek]


----------



## T & P (Apr 24, 2010)

Looking forward to today's episode!


----------



## pigtails (Apr 24, 2010)

I'm shitting myself already!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 24, 2010)

Just hope its not as bad as last weeks! I still enjoyed last weeks episode just the preview built hopes up too high.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2010)

T & P said:


> Looking forward to today's episode!



It's going to be wank. That was an interesting stand alone story but we all know what they are now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 24, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's going to be wank. That was an interesting stand alone story but we all know what they are now.



I _hope_ it's gonna be good, but have a feeling you're right


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 24, 2010)

Atomic Suplex is always negative in this thread.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2010)

It's hard not to be pessimistic when presented with evidence.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 24, 2010)

Those skirts just _aren't_ practical


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 24, 2010)

meh so far


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 24, 2010)

It's been 10 minutes!


----------



## pigtails (Apr 24, 2010)

I do like River Song!


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 24, 2010)

I'm going to have to watch in on player, got the times mixed up.

Us serious fans don't comment on it while watching


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 24, 2010)

Gotta admit, it was a fairly impressive exit


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 24, 2010)

jer said:


> Us serious fans don't comment on it while watching


You serious fans are geekier than me, and thus have far more serious things to worry about than fans less serious than you


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 24, 2010)

_That_ will have got a few responses from viewers...


----------



## 5t3IIa (Apr 24, 2010)

I never usually watch this but it's really good teehee


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 24, 2010)

Oooh, a cliffhanger!


----------



## belboid (Apr 24, 2010)

wooh!

surely not even suplex can slag off that 45 minutes of brilliance?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 24, 2010)

I like how the cliffhanger was a surprise and it didn't say 'part one'. Didn't expect that.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 24, 2010)

That was great 


The episodes really should be an hour long each though...


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 24, 2010)

Fuuuuuuck that was good


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 24, 2010)

That was pretty great!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 24, 2010)

Aye, I didn't expect that either


----------



## 5t3IIa (Apr 24, 2010)

This Doctors personality is pretty much the same as Tennants version though, isn't it? I can see why as it works but it's not like when Baker --> Davidson --> McCoy *showsage*


----------



## pigtails (Apr 24, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I like how the cliffhanger was a surprise and it didn't say 'part one'. Didn't expect that.



I know I was suddenly thinking "how are they going to finish this in 5 minutes!"


----------



## Bassism (Apr 24, 2010)

i've never watched it til today. Want like i expected not bad for passing the time


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 24, 2010)

The needle in a haystack trick was a very, very good way of making the angels joltingly scary a second time round. But I hope that there's something more going on in the second part than merely another clever way of defeating the little buggers with a giant mirror or somesuch.


----------



## belboid (Apr 24, 2010)

5t3IIa said:


> This Doctors personality is pretty much the same as Tennants version though, isn't it? I can see why as it works but it's not like when Baker --> Davidson --> McCoy *showsage*



I dont think so.  He seemed proper angry today, far more so than Tennant ever was.  Still a lot of running and shouting, but there always has been.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 24, 2010)

Basswhore said:


> i've never watched it til today.


 
That's simply not possible. 

It was on twice a week in the 1980s at a time when there were only three channels.


----------



## belboid (Apr 24, 2010)

was it?  I dont remember that.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 24, 2010)

belboid said:


> was it? I dont remember that.


 
Tuesdays and Thursdays. 19:00.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 24, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I hope that there's something more going on in the second part than merely another clever way of defeating the little buggers with a giant mirror or somesuch.



What's happening to Amy seems to be the new twist...


----------



## fieryjack (Apr 24, 2010)

I thought it was great

the cartoon Graham Norton thing is a massive distraction and fucking irritating. Stupid, stupid timing. Hateful innovation.

Also, every time I look into Amy Pond's eyes, bits of _me _turn to stone.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 24, 2010)

fieryjack said:


> the cartoon Graham Norton thing is a massive distraction and fucking irritating. Stupid, stupid timing. Hateful innovation.


 
I turned away from the TV when it appeared, and now Norton is filling the whole screen. I'm scared to look away now.


----------



## fieryjack (Apr 24, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I turned away from the TV when it appeared, and now Norton is filling the whole screen. I'm scared to look away now.


don't look directly into his, uhhh, "eye".


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 24, 2010)

It reminded me just how epic Iain Glen is


----------



## killer b (Apr 24, 2010)

fieryjack said:


> Also, every time I look into Amy Pond's eyes, bits of _me _turn to stone.


check again. it's wood.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 24, 2010)

Hah, checked the cast list - I _thought_ that was Mike Skinner tripping out at the beginning!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2010)

belboid said:


> wooh!
> 
> surely not even suplex can slag off that 45 minutes of brilliance?



I dunno. 

. . . and I watched two episodes of trial of a timelord this morning so my expectations should have been pretty low. 

I still think this doctor is too young. Plus he is all clever with future space maguffin science and not cool mad easy clever science.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 24, 2010)

fieryjack said:


> I thought it was great
> 
> the cartoon Graham Norton thing is a massive distraction and fucking irritating. Stupid, stupid timing. Hateful innovation.
> 
> Also, every time I look into Amy Pond's eyes, bits of _me _turn to stone.



Fucker invaded the very first episode with Chris Eccleston, too.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Apr 24, 2010)

what? did i miss a cameo by Graham Norton? Where the fuck?


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 24, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> what? did i miss a cameo by Graham Norton? Where the fuck?



There was a live feed and his mike was up, some talent show, it bled into Doctor Who. And now tonight's appearance, ruining the final moments.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Apr 24, 2010)

Why I like iPlayer


----------



## mhwfc (Apr 25, 2010)

fieryjack said:


> I thought it was great
> 
> the cartoon Graham Norton thing is a massive distraction and fucking irritating. Stupid, stupid timing. Hateful innovation.
> 
> Also, every time I look into Amy Pond's eyes, bits of _me _turn to stone.



Apparently BBC1 Wales did not show this abomination. My series link has now been switched to Sky channel 972!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2010)

I hope we get a twis where pond and song end up in bed


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 25, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope we get a twis where pond and song end up in bed


 
They've changed writers.


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 25, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope we get a twis where pond and song end up in bed



With a River and a Pond in bed together, things could get very wet.


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 25, 2010)

Anyhow, that was more like I'd been hoping for with Moffat taking over. I just can't understand the BBC seeming to do their hardest to ruin it, with the shite theme music and the Graham Norton cartoon thingy for the next programme up. 

Heads should roll.


----------



## big eejit (Apr 25, 2010)

Great episode last night. Couldn't believe that crass intrusion that completely ruined the tension at the end tho. Amateurs.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 25, 2010)

As Charlie Brooker said on Twitter immdediateyl after the episode:



> I hope Moffat is bellowing down a phone to someone right now.


----------



## big eejit (Apr 25, 2010)

I actually just complained about it via the BBC website. Never done that before.


----------



## Santino (Apr 25, 2010)

Watched in on HD and didn't get Norton, thankfully.


----------



## pigtails (Apr 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> Watched in on HD and didn't get Norton, thankfully.



watched in Wales and didn't get Norton!


----------



## Santino (Apr 25, 2010)

Then we've got norton to complain about.


----------



## pigtails (Apr 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> Then we've got norton to complain about.



I loled at that!


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 25, 2010)

Some great throwaway lines in that episode - "space teeth?", "you left the brakes on" etc

But I really like this one from next weeks - "If I always told you the truth, then you wouldnt need to trust me"


----------



## Santino (Apr 25, 2010)

In 'Blink' the angels often covered their faces so as to avoid looking at each other, but there was much less of that this time around. They'd better not forget that, it's the whole reason they're called weeping angels.


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 25, 2010)

I liked it.  I don't know why the dr seems to have started talking like Lola from Charlie and Lola though - from the clip of next weeks he says something like 'that is absolutely really not very good'.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 25, 2010)

^To be fair the rule about looking at each other was inconsistently applied in that episode as well.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 25, 2010)

is it ok because these leperous ones don't seem to have eyes?

i loved the bit with amy stuck in the shuttle.  that was one of the few bits of new Who that gave me that hiding-behind-a-cushion unbearable tension even though i obviously knew in the back of my mind that she'd be alright.

disappointed about the neck-breaking, or rather, that we didn't get to see any of the 'teleportation into the past' way of killing.  that was a totally cool headfuck in Blink.  

loved the 'brakes on' thing. river song must clearly be set up to run and run, possibly with younger actresses in future series (as technically they all have to be younger than the first appearance, and alex kingston won't be able to pull that off for ever...). Intrigued that there was no reaction from River to meeting Amy Pond (like there was with Donna) - which i'm guessing rules out any chance that Amy is their daughter or similarly significant.

Glad too that the crack thing looks like it'll be addressed in the next ep.

oh, and the statues only having one head moment... that's the kind of simple but inspired thinking that makes the doctor cool.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2010)

I'm still holding out for my theory that Song is a regeneration of Romana


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 25, 2010)

my guess is that if amy is anyone of any significances daughter that we already know about and can guess its donna after she became the doctor-donna BUT i spose the timelines don't match up for that.  although it would technically make amy nearly as cool and ace as the dr (which she is proving to be so far) but technically not his daughter so they can still technically get it on (in the late-night edition of dr who that they should make a la hollyoaks)   someone on my fb is claiming that river song is the master.  she is certainly a wrong'un...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 25, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> someone on my fb is claiming that river song is the master.  she is certainly a wrong'un...


There was certainly a lot of chemistry between Tennant and Simm.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 25, 2010)

Mike Skinner


----------



## Strumpet (Apr 25, 2010)

^ Thought so! ^

Just watched it online (No Graham). Holy shit!! That was a bit scary! 
Can't wait for next week


----------



## fogbat (Apr 25, 2010)

I thought River came across as pretty proud and maternal of Amy at one point...


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 25, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I thought River came across as pretty proud and maternal of Amy at one point...



I thought that was maybe more of being maternal of the doctor (in a weird way) because she presumably already knows all about amy, or could know about her, and knows the doctor and was being all smug and 'aww look he's picked a winner but i know he will love me the most' kind of way.

Also, don't forget that Amy did know her own mother - mum used to put smiley faces in the apples, we just don't know what happened to the mum or why amy was no longer with her by the time she was living with the aunt in leadworth.


----------



## innit (Apr 25, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> I liked it.  I don't know why the dr seems to have started talking like Lola from Charlie and Lola though - from the clip of next weeks he says something like 'that is absolutely really not very good'.


lol 



spanglechick said:


> is it ok because these leperous ones don't seem to have eyes?


yeah - guessing that's why they didn't have eyes to start with



> river song must clearly be set up to run and run, possibly with younger actresses in future series (as technically they all have to be younger than the first appearance, and alex kingston won't be able to pull that off for ever...).


we were talking about this - tis a shame that RTD killed her, Alex Kingston is aces.  But would be glad if River Song continued to run with someone else in the role.

Also - really enjoyed the episode but the similarities to the library were a bit too heavy:

River Song
Team of varying degrees of usefulness
Encroaching darkness threatens everyone's life
Monster uses the voice of a dead character to deliver its threats
Companion manages to get herself stuffed up in an innovative manner


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2010)

I felt the religiousity of the military should have been played more. Although the Bish battle-cleric did have that satisfyingly cliched 'amen my son' type of intonation to his speech


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 25, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I felt the religiousity of the military should have been played more. Although the Bish battle-cleric did have that satisfyingly cliched 'amen my son' type of intonation to his speech



The Church Militant may have been my favourite idea in the whole episode. Clerical soliders hunting angels.


----------



## innit (Apr 25, 2010)

love the thought of a generation of nippers being scared of angels (and statues)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 25, 2010)

innit said:


> love the thought of a generation of nippers being scared of angels (and statues)



and televisions.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 25, 2010)

So, the only difference between Pond and Song is the first and last letter.

P - q - r - S

D - e - f - G

Both equally spaced apart. 

I'm clutching at some really crap straws 

Amelia means 'hard work', 'rival', or 'strive'. Amy means 'beloved'. None of which may be relevant.

I think Amy is River's daughter (but not the doctor's), or IS River in the past, or is River's creation, somehow.

And the duck pond in Leadworth is important.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 25, 2010)

Alfava Metraxis (name of the planet)

Master XI?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 25, 2010)

Balbi said:


> Alfava Metraxis (name of the planet)



Possibly a pun on 'All-father' or 'Our father'?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 25, 2010)

Balbi said:


> *A*lfava Me*traxis* (name of the planet)



The captors of Prisoner Zero?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 25, 2010)

You can also make:

Amelia vs ax raft


----------



## T & P (Apr 25, 2010)

I see the BBC has apologised after receiving thousands of complaints about the Norton trailer:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8642854.stm

At least it seems it won't happen again.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 25, 2010)

I didn't  see the norton thing that you guys are on about...(thankfully)


----------



## belboid (Apr 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> In 'Blink' the angels often covered their faces so as to avoid looking at each other, but there was much less of that this time around. They'd better not forget that, it's the whole reason they're called weeping angels.



dont forget how weak they are. and considering how dark it was down there, even if they left there faces uncovered they wouldn't have been able to see each other.  later on, if there was more than one on camera, they were looking in diffrent directions.

just watched it again and it's even better second time round. And I do think Amy and River _are_ actually the same person after that.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 25, 2010)

One thing I have learned today: you can waste an entire evening reading threads at Gallifrey Base.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 25, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> One thing I have learned today: you can waste an entire evening reading threads at Gallifrey Base.



There's some _odd types_ on that message board.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 25, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> There's some _odd types_ on that message board.



Indeed. As there are on this message board 

I just made my first post on there. Which, interestingly enough, wasn't about Doctor Who at all. Well, not really. 

There are some interesting theories being bandied around there.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 25, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I think Amy is River's daughter (but not the doctor's), or IS River in the past, or is River's creation, somehow.
> .



She cant be as they hugged a few times in the episode, which according to the whole timey wimey Dr Who thing would have thrown a spazz in the universe. Or something.

My 2p (which will be wrong). Amy is the Dr's daughter, but Dr (Professor) Song is The Rani. 

For those that arent as geeky as me, The Rani was a female rogue Timelord. They are both the same age, which meant they grew up together. So if the Dr had a kid (remember 'you are not alone' from last series), and he and Song grew up together, then they could be cousins or something. And she knows the Dr. She has a book (a diary like a kid?), and knows how to fly the TARDIS - from the best, although the Dr wasnt around, which would lead to her having been taught by the Master.

But like I say - I have no idea and love the whole trying to work it out thing. Even though I am always wrong.

My God. I just read that all back. I am so ashamed of myself 

Cracking episode mind 

Have some Rani wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_(Doctor_Who)


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 25, 2010)

Yes - the blowsy Song is a future professor, and anyone who crops up with an academic title is likely to be a Gallifreyan. A Reader or a Dean would be similarly suspicious. Anyway, the Rani is pretty much the last pre-reboot staple left untravestied.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 25, 2010)

River Song is just a human being or else she'd have regenerated in the library, and had her own Tardis and Sonic Screwdriver. And she'd have two hearts and probably be pretty blatant to another Time Lord.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 25, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> River Song is just a human being or else she'd have regenerated in the library, and had her own Tardis and Sonic Screwdriver. And she'd have two hearts and probably be pretty blatant to another Time Lord.



Except that she can fly the TARDIS better than the Dr, seems to have him at her beck and call, and she does have her own sonic screwdriver. Or did (my mind is fuzzy now, but there was definitely something about the Dr and River exchanging a Sonic Screwdriver in the last episode she was in). And if she was human, then why have a book, shaped like the TARDIS with everything in it, why have the Dr say 'we keep meeting up in the wrong order' and why have her say ' I know all the Dr's - I just dont have an order which is why I have to refer to the pictures'...


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 25, 2010)

He moves through time, she doesn't have to. And there's no reason a human can't fly the Tardis or do any of that other stuff.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 25, 2010)

Didn't he (Tennant) give Song his screwdriver in the episodes when they first met?

Also, the timey-wimey spazzing universe thing might not be so cut and dried, since their timelines are borked anyway (she's dead, remember ... but not yet, but already ) .

Anyway, there are a few good theories on Gallifrey Base. One I particularly like is:



Spoiler: River Song



She's an archeologist, yes? Well, she's a Time Lord archeologist. In that, she studies the Time Lords. Most specifically, she studies the doctor. That's how she can read Old High Gallifreyan, and so on. I did lol at the theory that has her working with either Rassillon or the Master to bring the doctor down


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 26, 2010)

overall really  rather  good

yes  the  dead  talking  was  very  silence in the  library   but  if  anything   that particular  device  was  used  to more  effect this  time  round  

and  of  course  some  excelent writing

"try to stay calm in the face of decor!"


----------



## fieryjack (Apr 26, 2010)

*_sigh_*


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Yes - the blowsy Song is a future professor, and anyone who crops up with an academic title is likely to be a Gallifreyan. A Reader or a Dean would be similarly suspicious. Anyway, the Rani is pretty much the last pre-reboot staple left untravestied.



Romana would be more likely


----------



## rollinder (Apr 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Romana would be more likely



the winding him up about how to fly/land the Tardis was very Romana


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 26, 2010)

Did anyone else hear the bit where River Song said 'but I don't want to go back to prison yet?' or did I dream this.  This stuff about being his wife is either true but she goes wrong after, or was some kind of elaborate scam on her part to get loads of information out of him, or just a lie/back story she has come up with to placate him when she meets the him that hasn't met her yet while he's time travelling to explain away something far more complicated and sinister.  As for who she really is, I have no idea... do like Vintage Paw's fave theory though.

The reason River Song died in the library but is alive now because in terms of what year/century it is in the library episode this is chronologically after saturdays episode, there is even a reference to saturday's episode in the library episode as it had already happened (for River Song) in the past.  The doctor, however, is on a different timeline because he keeps time travelling so landed later in time in the library first, and then had this adventure second.  This talk about who taught her to fly the tardis could be something or nothing, remember as far as we know she doesn't have the ability to time travel, apart from if/when she is with the dr.  If we assume that she was taught by someone else it is either someone with their own tardis who has also time travelled as by the time we reach her timeline the only timelord left is dr who, or she was taught by the doctor and was just needling him, or she was taught by one of his companions who hasn't cropped up yet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> Did anyone else hear the bit where River Song said 'but I don't want to go back to prison yet?'


Yes.

And has anyone mentioned yet that Pond and River are both bodies of water?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2010)

and they are both bodies of hotness. It all adds up.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> She cant be as they hugged a few times in the episode, which according to the whole timey wimey Dr Who thing would have thrown a spazz in the universe. Or something.



Since when? Are you thinking of timecop?
Ever heard of the three doctors, the five doctors or the two doctors episodes? Wasn't a problem then.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 26, 2010)

Fair do's

Timecop


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> River Song is just a human being or else she'd have regenerated in the library, and had her own Tardis and Sonic Screwdriver. And she'd have two hearts and probably be pretty blatant to another Time Lord.



Romana didn't have a tardis, Songs, multi-tool gun is a bit like a sonic screwdriver (and who says that is standard issue Timelord kit anyway, the bloke flies an obsolete and fucked up model of the TARDIS, like saving the universe in a beat up robin reliant). Also-library was end of life, so possibly her 12th and final life.

So there. A fiver says it is romana


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> River Song is just a human being or else she'd have regenerated in the library, and had her own Tardis and Sonic Screwdriver. And she'd have two hearts and probably be pretty blatant to another Time Lord.



They did say at one point timelords could sort of sense each other?


----------



## Iguana (Apr 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Since when? Are you thinking of timecop?
> Ever heard of the three doctors, the five doctors or the two doctors episodes? Wasn't a problem then.



And wasn't there a baby Rose in Father's Day who Rose was asked to hold at one point?  Though she had already borked the universe at that point.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Since when? Are you thinking of timecop?
> Ever heard of the three doctors, the five doctors or the two doctors episodes? Wasn't a problem then.



Possible confusion with Back to the Future?


----------



## fogbat (Apr 26, 2010)

Iguana said:


> And wasn't there a baby Rose in Father's Day who Rose was asked to hold at one point?  Though she had already borked the universe at that point.



In Father's Day apparently Rose is warned not to touch her younger self "as this will further damage the time stream."

Well-remembered, averagejoe 

Though maybe this only applies when timestreams are damaged?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Romana didn't have a tardis, Songs, multi-tool gun is a bit like a sonic screwdriver (and who says that is standard issue Timelord kit anyway, the bloke flies an obsolete and fucked up model of the TARDIS, like saving the universe in a beat up robin reliant). Also-library was end of life, so possibly her 12th and final life.
> 
> So there. A fiver says it is romana



Hummm, maybe they forgot about the timelords (and the tardis) sensing other timelords. Is there any chance she could have regenerated in the library? Also don't forget that (for some reason) Romana can change her body / regenerate at will.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> In Father's Day apparently Rose is warned not to touch her younger self "as this will further damage the time stream."
> 
> Well-remembered, averagejoe
> 
> Though maybe this only applies when timestreams are damaged?



Maybe he just meant for her to say well back from everything and ease up on the paradoxes.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Possible confusion with Back to the Future?



Wasn't a problem in back to the future either. If time travel were possible it would be such a stupid science wrongways idea.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> In Father's Day apparently Rose is warned not to touch her younger self "as this will further damage the time stream."
> 
> Well-remembered, averagejoe
> 
> Though maybe this only applies when timestreams are damaged?



Woah - that was a complete fluke.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Wasn't a problem in back to the future either. If time travel were possible it would be such a stupid science wrongways idea.



Doc Brown thought it would be a problem, and warned of the catastrophic consequences. Though in the end, it didn't seem to be that big a deal.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Doc Brown thought it would be a problem, and warned of the catastrophic consequences. Though in the end, it didn't seem to be that big a deal.



That was a joke about all the daft sci-fi that suggests you can't touch your past / future self.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> That was a joke about all the daft sci-fi that suggests you can't touch your past / future self.



Ah, right. Cheers.

Never picked up on that before


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2010)

Some proper Oedipal wrongness in BTTF


----------



## Santino (Apr 26, 2010)

I think it'd be proper rubbish if River turns out to be a TimeLady.


----------



## T & P (Apr 26, 2010)

I wonder what'd happen if you shagged your past/future self...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

T & P said:


> I wonder what'd happen if you shagged your past/future self...



I seem to remember the bloke from the time travelers wife wanking himself off and the world didn't explode.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 26, 2010)

Bad technique, I imagine


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 26, 2010)

Santino said:


> I think it'd be proper rubbish if River turns out to be a TimeLady.



Me too, tbh.

Another theory from GB I really quite like, because i think it's fits, is quite elegant, but is also quite sad:

Song and the Doctor's timelines sort of mirror each other hmm: not trying to make it sound all Lost theory-like or anything). So the last time the Doctor meets Song will be the first time she meets him, and he will die. Either she will kill him (possibly why she was in prison? And possibly why her and the Bishop said if he found out what she was he wouldn't help?), or he will sacrifice himself for her. This explains why during his first meeting of her, and her last, she was prepared to sacrifice herself for him - because she knew he had done the same.

I like that.

(It is also suggested that this needn't be something we actually experience, but Song could merely tell the current companion (if it doesn't happen this series) in a fittingly moving way - possibly heralding Kingston's final episode - so it becomes the narrative of the end of the Doctor, but we never have to see it. Some have said they believe Moffatt will want to put his stamp on the canon timeline of the Doctor, and this could be a very good way.)


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 26, 2010)

10 teasers for the next episode....

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/blog/tubetalk/


----------



## strung out (Apr 26, 2010)

what was the mike skinner bit all about then? did she put him in some kind of trance or something? and what was with the lipstick all over his face?


----------



## innit (Apr 26, 2010)

Hallucinogenic lipstick 

(they didn't say it very clearly tbf)


----------



## strung out (Apr 26, 2010)

ah right! just watching it for the second time now. trying to figure out bits i still don't understand


----------



## Fullyplumped (Apr 26, 2010)

Balbi said:


> Mike Skinner



Who is he? Some sort of pop singer? Why is he thought cool?


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 26, 2010)

Fullyplumped said:


> Who is he? Some sort of pop singer? Why is he thought cool?


 
He's part of a popular beat combo. The kids enjoy his lyrical stylings.


----------



## hektik (Apr 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> In Father's Day apparently Rose is warned not to touch her younger self "as this will further damage the time stream."
> 
> Well-remembered, averagejoe
> 
> Though maybe this only applies when timestreams are damaged?



isn't time/space damaged anyway - the crack in the universe?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 26, 2010)

Yes, he's popular with the youth of today.

I may watch Sat's episode again. And I NEVER do that with anything. The Moff keeps saying that there is loads of stuff in all the episodes that you'll likely miss, that you have to keep looking closely, and that a lot of stuff will only become apparent towards the end anyway. 

This 'big bad' is supposed to be in every episode, and is traveling with them everywhere. My latest crackpot theory - it's the black liquid in the bottom of the tardis lol. (Better than the whole - it's obviously Amy stuff.)


----------



## Fullyplumped (Apr 26, 2010)

missfran said:


> He's part of a popular beat combo. The kids enjoy his lyrical stylings.



So he is. I'd never heard of him and was wondering why people were talking about him in the way that teenage fans do. Thanks.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 26, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I didn't  see the norton thing that you guys are on about...(thankfully)



I believe Moffat's writing him into the finale; he's certainly fast becoming the Doctor's most deadly adversary...


----------



## innit (Apr 26, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes, he's popular with the youth of today.



Shouldn't think most of the youth of today know who he is - he had his heyday quite a few years ago.

He may still be popular with some late 20s - mid 30s.  My 33 year old boyfriend was listening to Original Pirate Material the other day.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 26, 2010)

innit said:


> Shouldn't think most of the youth of today know who he is - he had his heyday quite a few years ago.
> 
> He may still be popular with some late 20s - mid 30s.  My 33 year old boyfriend was listening to Original Pirate Material the other day.



This just shows how out of touch I am with yesterday's youth, just as much as today's youth.

And I am yesterday's youth.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 26, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> This just shows how out of touch I am with yesterday's youth, just as much as today's youth.
> 
> And I am yesterday's youth.



I'm about to tip into my 40s and I like The Streets. Am I trying too hard?


----------



## Iguana (Apr 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Wasn't a problem in back to the future either. If time travel were possible it would be such a stupid science wrongways idea.



There was a time travelling cop series on the BBC in the mid-late 90's that took that rule very seriously.  If you looked yourself in the eye while time travelling you would create a paradox which would destroy the universe.  Kochanski from Red Dwarf starred in it.

Crime Traveller, iirc, it was shit.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 26, 2010)

jer said:


> I'm about to tip into my 40s and I like The Streets. Am I trying too hard?



Way too hard. Shouldn't you be listening to Pink Floyd, granddad?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2010)

original pirate material. Good album.

Everything onwards- Gash


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 26, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Way too hard. Shouldn't you be listening to Pink Floyd, granddad?



I only bought Dark Side of the Moon a couple of years ago


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 26, 2010)

I'd just like to have a quick moan about how the Doctor's excellent cliffhanger monologue would have carried a lot more clout if we hadn't all heard it loads of times already on the beeb's omnipresent (including cinemas ffs) series trailer. Happily the writing is good enough that there are plenty of good bits that didn't fit in the trailer but why spoiler your cliffhanger endings? That's just amatuerish, Norton or no Norton


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 26, 2010)

And also, confidential with the angels dancing around was possibly even scarier than the actual episode.

Bonus points to Matt Smith for coming up with the idea of having Alex Kingston land on top of him


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2010)

jer said:


> I'm about to tip into my 40s and I like The Streets. Am I trying too hard?


No; it's _only_ 40-year-old Guardian readers who like him.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 26, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> No; it's _only_ 40-year-old Guardian readers who like him.



Is it? Oh, I do like to buck the trend


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2010)

jer said:


> Is it? Oh, I do like to buck the trend


Do you like him in an ironic way?


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 26, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Do you like him in an ironic way?



No, I like him in an "I like listening to a wide variety of tunes" kinda way...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> And also, confidential with the angels dancing around was possibly even scarier than the actual episode.
> 
> *Bonus points to Matt Smith for coming up with the idea of having Alex Kingston land on top of him*



They breed em canny at Northants School for Boys


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2010)

jer said:


> No, I like him in an "I like listening to a wide variety of tunes" kinda way...


OK, check your birth certificate, then; you may be older than you realise.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 26, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, check your birth certificate, then; you may be older than you realise.



Sorry, doesn't compute


----------



## fogbat (Apr 26, 2010)

Iguana said:


> There was a time travelling cop series on the BBC in the mid-late 90's that took that rule very seriously.  If you looked yourself in the eye while time travelling you would create a paradox which would destroy the universe.  Kochanski from Red Dwarf starred in it.
> 
> Crime Traveller, iirc, it was shit.



"Slade is a good detective who gets results although his approach is somewhat maverick and his methods do leave a lot to be desired and have more than once landed him in trouble."


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 26, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'd just like to have a quick moan about how the Doctor's excellent cliffhanger monologue would have carried a lot more clout if we hadn't all heard it loads of times already on the beeb's omnipresent (including cinemas ffs) series trailer. Happily the writing is good enough that there are plenty of good bits that didn't fit in the trailer but why spoiler your cliffhanger endings? That's just amatuerish, Norton or no Norton


Aye, I thought exactly the same.

As others have said too, having a "I. Am. THE DOCTOOOOOR!!!" speech in _every_ episode is serious overkill. Show, don't tell


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 26, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Aye, I thought exactly the same.
> 
> As others have said too, having a "I. Am. THE DOCTOOOOOR!!!" speech in _every_ episode is serious overkill. Show, don't tell



Perhaps what they're showing is that the new Doctor has certain ego/identity issues, which you'd sort of expect if someone suddenly changed into a whole new person. Or maybe they just though that Tennant had gone a bit soft by the end of his tenure and people wanted to see a Doctor with a bit more chutzpah. 

It's not like Tennant was without his grandstanding moments either. So many 'pack it in or I will stop you because I'm awesome' speeches.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Aye, I thought exactly the same.
> 
> As others have said too, having a "I. Am. THE DOCTOOOOOR!!!" speech in _every_ episode is serious overkill. Show, don't tell



I just watched an extra on Trial of a Timelord about who cliffhangers. All the new writers were wetting themselves over the Eccleston dalek cliffhanger that instead of ending in peril ends with the dr saying "I will rescue everyone and kill the daleks in the next episode". The idea being that we know the Dr will get the girl and kill the baddies so the cliffhanger is 'how the hell is he going to do that?'. I guess they are desperately trying to copy everything that was previously success and stuff it onto one story.


----------



## maximilian ping (Apr 26, 2010)

I didn't realise Dr Who was so nerdy..this thread is a nerdfest!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2010)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8643684.stm



> More than five thousand Doctor Who fans have complained to the BBC claiming the ending of Saturday night's episode was ruined by a trailer for the next show.
> 
> The on-screen caption featured an animated cartoon of presenter Graham Norton, host of Over the Rainbow.
> 
> It appeared as The Doctor, played by Matt Smith, was making an emotional speech during the story's cliffhanger ending for The Time of Angels.



I didn't notice.  Maybe viewers in Scotland had their own trail.


----------



## innit (Apr 26, 2010)

You must not have had it - you couldn't miss it.

did you have the rubbish saturday night trailer before doctor who? it had animated graham norton and matt smith being chased by a dalek.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2010)

innit said:


> You must not have had it - you couldn't miss it.
> 
> did you have the rubbish saturday night trailer before doctor who? it had animated graham norton and matt smith being chased by a dalek.


Doesn't ring any bells.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 26, 2010)

In other news, the excellent Gallifrey Base has given us this little gem:


----------



## innit (Apr 26, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Doesn't ring any bells.



You are truly favoured.  I'm going to series link Dr Who on BBC1 Scotland.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2010)

innit said:


> You are truly favoured.  I'm going to series link Dr Who on BBC1 Scotland.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I just watched an extra on Trial of a Timelord about who cliffhangers. All the new writers were wetting themselves over the Eccleston dalek cliffhanger that instead of ending in peril ends with the dr saying "I will rescue everyone and kill the daleks in the next episode". The idea being that we know the Dr will get the girl and kill the baddies so the cliffhanger is 'how the hell is he going to do that?'. I guess they are desperately trying to copy everything that was previously success and stuff it onto one story.



I'm not sure if I'd have Trial as a success... although the opening 30 seconds were very state of the art fx for the time. And I did like the Matrix/Valleyard stuff at the end of the series.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Apr 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> "Slade is a good detective who gets results although his approach is somewhat maverick and his methods do leave a lot to be desired and have more than once landed him in trouble."



Well that narrows it down then


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 26, 2010)

innit said:


> You must not have had it - you couldn't miss it.
> 
> did you have the rubbish saturday night trailer before doctor who? it had animated graham norton and matt smith being chased by a dalek.



BBC Scotland didn't use the overlay thing at the end, but had the pre-show trailer.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

jer said:


> I'm not sure if I'd have Trial as a success... although the opening 30 seconds were very state of the art fx for the time. And I did like the Matrix/Valleyard stuff at the end of the series.



Read the post again. I watched a DVD extra on the TOAT disc about Dr Who cliff hangers. They were talking about an Eccleston episode. 

Trial of a timelord is shite.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 26, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8643684.stm
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't notice.  Maybe viewers in Scotland had their own trail.



I didn't notice it on HD either, in Scotland.

I do have to say that so far the new doc's been fine, the first part of the angel story is wonderfully done...the **d cleric/soldier bob on the radio, the tv angel....very creepy in a clever way (sadako rules on the tv one though).

I didn't watch DW for years and years, sometimes after baker I think, as it was just too shit to bother with, it's prime time Saturday (early) evening stuff now.

Oh....feeling a bit pedo about liking that Pond girl, mind.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> I
> I didn't watch DW for years and years, sometimes after baker I think, as it was just too shit to bother with, it's prime time Saturday (early) evening stuff now.



On re-watching old who it had become apparent that I began to give up in bits during Colin Bakers Trial of a Timelord, giving up for the rest of the series after Mel showed up half way though. I came back for some McCoy but was always disappointed. I recently re-watched his Dalek one though and thought it was pretty reasonable. I quite like the little fella after all.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2010)

Remembrance of the Daleks? 

First outing for the white daleks with gold studs. Epic story.


----------



## Santino (Apr 26, 2010)

Was that the one when Ace took out a Dalek with a super-powered baseball bat?


----------



## strung out (Apr 26, 2010)

and they had the special weapons dalek


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Epic story.



You are only saying that because it is the first Dalek story you were alive to see. 
Did I mention Rutabowa has McCoys actual Dr Who hat?


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 26, 2010)

maximilian ping said:


> I didn't realise Dr Who was so nerdy..this thread is a nerdfest!



You think *this* is a nerdfest? Dr Who has its own Wiki (and not section in Wiki, but its own actual Wiki)

Have a go on this for size. I couldnt get my head around it (its someones ascertation about who River Song is. TBH, whoever wrote this really needs to get out more)

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Patience


----------



## gamma globulins (Apr 27, 2010)

Back to last weeks, and indeed previous Gatiss scripts, I'm currently thumbing through _The Devil in Amber_ and have noticed that his writing style might not be best suited to the visual medium. He writes well, and is quite playful with language, but is much better at describing experiences rather than events, which might be why his stories are a bit forgetful. A third person rendition of either the _Vesuvius Club_ or _Devil in Amber_ books would be poor fare indeed.


----------



## gamma globulins (Apr 27, 2010)

Found this little gem on barbelith

"[regarding last week's episode] It was all fairly great as a tea-time version of Aliens, though.

(On which note, that's why the Daleks are now completely shit and boring - series one of New Who did the Alien thing, having humans in a base being terrorised by a single, unreasoning, terrifying slaughter machine, then did Aliens at the end of the series by bringing in an entire army of them. There's nowhere you can go after that - one is no longer a threat and an army is a repeat of what we've already seen. Hence stupid redesigns. Dalek/human hybrid from Daleks in Manhattan? Dog Alien from Alien 3.)"


----------



## Santino (Apr 27, 2010)

gamma globulins said:


> Found this little gem on barbelith
> 
> "[regarding last week's episode] It was all fairly great as a tea-time version of Aliens, though.
> 
> (On which note, that's why the Daleks are now completely shit and boring - series one of New Who did the Alien thing, having humans in a base being terrorised by a single, unreasoning, terrifying slaughter machine, then did Aliens at the end of the series by bringing in an entire army of them. There's nowhere you can go after that - one is no longer a threat and an army is a repeat of what we've already seen. Hence stupid redesigns. Dalek/human hybrid from Daleks in Manhattan? Dog Alien from Alien 3.)"



Alien vs Predator = Daleks vs Cybermen.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 27, 2010)

Am I reaching, or was the Dalek episode a dig at the BNP? Daleks serve in WW2 getting exterminated by new ones.


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2010)

have we had any discussion yet over 'Sacred Bob'?   If they are all given 'sacred' (ie Saints) names, who is the original Saint Bob?  Dylan or bloody Geldoff?


----------



## nightowl (Apr 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> Was that the one when Ace took out a Dalek with a super-powered baseball bat?



That's the one


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 27, 2010)

Quartz said:


> Am I reaching, or was the Dalek episode a dig at the BNP? Daleks serve in WW2 getting exterminated by new ones.



you are reaching man.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 27, 2010)

Though a previous Gatiss _Who_ episode was accused of having an anti-asylum seeker subtext.


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2010)

it's not that ludicrous, there were clearly election references in that episode. 'Forget everything that has happened in the last X years, and then vote for it again'


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 27, 2010)

Quartz said:


> Am I reaching, or was the Dalek episode a dig at the BNP? Daleks serve in WW2 getting exterminated by new ones.



Definitely reaching. They were United Colors of Benetton - they'd have been white otherwise


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 27, 2010)

belboid said:


> it's not that ludicrous, there were clearly election references in that episode. 'Forget everything that has happened in the last X years, and then vote for it again'



well, that particular episode was overtly political in places- that's why it reminded me of Hapiness Patrol.

I just don't see what Quartz says.


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> well, that particular episode was overtly political in places- that's why it reminded me of Hapiness Patrol.



with the difference that it was good.


----------



## strung out (Apr 27, 2010)

trailer for episode six of the series, vampires in venice


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm so sick of vampires.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 27, 2010)

I dunno..Amy looks a little like the young one in TB.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> I dunno..Amy looks a little like the young one in TB.



I still hate this current vampire trend. That picture just confirms it for me. What a load of wank.


----------



## Strumpet (Apr 28, 2010)

OohhhH!
I'm never sick of vampires


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I still hate this current vampire trend. That picture just confirms it for me. What a load of wank.


Simple solution - dont watch it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2010)

I've been into vampires way before the current trend. The problem with vamp popularity of the moment is that it led inevitably to Twilight 

True Blood pond looks a smidgin like Jessica Hamby


----------



## cesare (Apr 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I've been into vampires way before the current trend. The problem with vamp popularity of the moment is that it led inevitably to Twilight
> 
> True Blood pond looks a smidgin like Jessica Hamby



Storm Constantine and Tanith Lee did a good line in vampires.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2010)

belboid said:


> Simple solution - dont watch it.



There you go again. So witty.

(((((My sides)))))


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 28, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I still hate this current vampire trend. That picture just confirms it for me. What a load of wank.


The biggest problem with True Blood - which I do enjoy - is that it's _yet another_ oestrogen-fuelled Twilight-fantasy where the lead girl is so Magical and Special that she has all these immortal supernatural creatures fighting over her, _for no very obvious reason_. Also, Bill going, "Sookeh" every five minutes is starting to get right on my tits.

Still, Deborah Ann Woll, though.

I still think they should turn Anno Dracula into a film/TV series. Geneviève could have any of this current shower of fly-by-night vampires.


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> There you go again. So witty.
> 
> (((((My sides)))))



It's not a joke.  You wont enjoy it, it'll just be an excuse to mona, so save everyone the trouble.


----------



## strung out (Apr 28, 2010)

i'm sure everyone will be catching it anyway, but apparently the second part of the weeping angels episode is bloody ace. watch it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> The biggest problem with True Blood - which I do enjoy - is that it's _yet another_ oestrogen-fuelled Twilight-fantasy where the lead girl is so Magical and Special that she has all these immortal supernatural creatures fighting over her, _for no very obvious reason_. Also, Bill going, "Sookeh" every five minutes is starting to get right on my tits.
> 
> Still, Deborah Ann Woll, though.
> 
> I still think they should turn Anno Dracula into a film/TV series. Geneviève could have any of this current shower of fly-by-night vampires.



Why the fuck are those books out of print? Anno Dracula is the tits


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 28, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i'm sure everyone will be catching it anyway, but apparently the second part of the weeping angels episode is bloody ace. watch it.


I can vouch for this


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Why the fuck are those books out of print? Anno Dracula is the tits


I did ask Kim Newman this a while ago, it seems to be partly his choice - waiting until some rights revert to him, or somesuch.

Never mind, the more they're out of the public eye, the more chance I have of becoming a Famous Hollywood Director and shooting the film versions. Be an absolute nightmare to cast, though, since you need a female lead who looks sixteen (but is over eighteen, so she can film the saucy bits) and who isn't going to age significantly over the three or four years that the films would have to be shot over.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2010)

Kim Newman did that? I didn't know. He did a Dr Who book too for non thread derailment (rerailment) fans.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I've been into vampires way before the current trend. The problem with vamp popularity of the moment is that it led inevitably to Twilight
> 
> True Blood pond looks a smidgin like Jessica Hamby



Bill was also in vampire classic; Ultraviolet - as was Idris Elba and the late Corin Regrave & Jack Davenport.


----------



## The_Reverend_M (Apr 28, 2010)

strung_out said:


> trailer for episode six of the series, vampires in venice




Reminds me of the vampires from 'The Curse of Fenrick'


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 28, 2010)

jer said:


> Bill was also in vampire classic; Ultraviolet - as was Idris Elba and the late Corin Regrave & Jack Davenport.


Ah...never clicked that Mr Compton was the one.  I enjoyed UV, pity it wasn;t extended.


----------



## strung out (Apr 28, 2010)

eastenders made me laugh last night when rickie and charlie slater were having a conversation about gay people, and rickie was telling charlie about john barrowman in doctor who. then charlie came out with "gays in doctor who? well there weren't in my day."

made me laugh, particularly as the actor who plays charlie actually was in doctor who, back in the day, in Image of the Fendahl


----------



## pigtails (Apr 28, 2010)

Strumpet said:


> OohhhH!
> I'm never sick of vampires



me neither!  I'm just chuffed they've become so popular cause I love em!

and Strumps.... one word....... Mitchell!


----------



## fogbat (Apr 28, 2010)

pigtails said:


> me neither!  I'm just chuffed they've become so popular cause I love em!
> 
> and Strumps.... one word....... Mitchell!







"Yeah? What?"


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2010)

fogbat said:


> "Yeah? What?"



The female voice of Croydon Tramlink (fact fans), though sadly in her real life posh voice so you wouldn't notice.


----------



## pigtails (Apr 28, 2010)

fogbat said:


> "Yeah? What?"




idiot!


----------



## strung out (Apr 28, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The female voice of Croydon Tramlink (fact fans), though sadly in her real life posh voice so you wouldn't notice.



i'll have to look out for that


----------



## innit (Apr 28, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The female voice of Croydon Tramlink (fact fans), though sadly in her real life posh voice so you wouldn't notice.



She's from Bethnal Green iirc, her real life voice was probably a lot like her Enders voice.  The Tramlink voice would be her drama school voice.

She was in the same theatre company as my grandad (this may be less exciting to fact fans).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i'll have to look out for that



You'll have to get on a tram for that. 

If you get a male tram you get Nicholas Owen. Apparently he is a tram fan. 
I cannot confirm or deny any Babs enthusiasm or not for trams.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I still hate this current vampire trend. That picture just confirms it for me. What a load of wank.



true blood isn't really part of the current vampire trend tho it's actually quite good...


----------



## radio_atomica (Apr 29, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> true blood isn't really part of the current vampire trend tho it's actually quite good...



although it would be greatly improved by a couple of zombies bashing round the house and moaning, generally messing it up for the rest of them by being really rubbish at pretending not to be the undead


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> true blood isn't really part of the current vampire trend tho it's actually quite good...



Dawsons vamp


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Dawsons vamp



How much have you seen? It isn't remotely like that. Too broad a spread of ages, too intelligent. Try "Six Feet Vampire"...


----------



## innit (Apr 29, 2010)

True Blood is good. I think it benefits from being based on books - it suffers much less from that "shit, what next???" made-up-as-it-goes-along thing that lots of American drama has.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 29, 2010)

Another vote for True Blood.  Witty, sexy, funny, very sexy (there was an orgy the last couple of weeks) and equates vampire hating with racism and religious prejudice.

Did I say sexy?   I mean...they're at it like vampire rabbits.

Vampire porn...way beyond Twins of Evil etc.

Obviously not for the same audience as Dr Who.   VwV


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm waiting for series 3. Jessica Hamby 

It is as sexy and violent as Interview with a Vampire, only not as emo.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> How much have you seen? It isn't remotely like that. Too broad a spread of ages, too intelligent. Try "Six Feet Vampire"...



I know what you mean about dawsons but I thought it sounded funny. Six Feet Under is tedious shite though.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It is as sexy and violent as Interview with a Vampire, .



Wow, that's really not selling it.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 29, 2010)

innit said:


> True Blood is good. I think it benefits from being based on books - it suffers much less from that "shit, what next???" made-up-as-it-goes-along thing that lots of American drama has.



Whilst I agree on its utter fabdom; I do respect TV writers being able to pare down/exapnd the story when unforseen real life circumstances demand it. That takes a certain amount of discipline and writing under pressure.

Lost is the perfect shining example & Heroes is an example of how not to do it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

jer said:


> Whilst I agree on its utter fabdom; I do respect TV writers being able to pare down/exapnd the story when unforseen real life circumstances demand it. That takes a certain amount of discipline and writing under pressure.
> 
> Lost is the perfect shining example & Heroes is an example of how not to do it.



Yes Lost, though it got lost itself in the wilderness when expanded kept to an overall plot and is shaping up well. Heroes just turned to dumb mush as soon as it needed to keep itself going. Could have been something good. I also am extremely angry with BSG which had great writing but ultimately was being made up as it went along, making it fall apart and lose its direction (and a conclusion) as a consequence. Write a story, from start to finish.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yes Lost, though it got lost itself in the wilderness when expanded kept to an overall plot and is shaping up well. Heroes just turned to dumb mush as soon as it needed to keep itself going. Could have been something good. I also am extremely angry with BSG which had great writing but ultimately was being made up as it went along, making it fall apart and lose its direction (and a conclusion) as a consequence. Write a story, from start to finish.



Ok, here's where I disagree - I don't believe it did fall apart, I think it moved onto another level - the mystical element was pushed very much to the fore. We see this in Lost, too - the science versus the faith (or lack of).

Very prescient, in this day and age, I reckons


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2010)

Heroes literally lost the plot after series one but it is still great to watch for the powers and to laugh at the huge plot inconsistencies.

I actually think they pulled themselves back to something approaching respectability with the whole Carny season


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 29, 2010)

I watched last weeks eopisode last night, loved it, and want to be River Song


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Write a story, from start to finish.



writing for television isn't the same as writing a novel you plonker


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

jer said:


> Ok, here's where I disagree - I don't believe it did fall apart,



All of the cool ideas that kept you watching and guessing had no resolution, even the writers didn't know. Then they shoehorned the final five in, which could have been great if they had a decent way write it in. 

"They have a plan . . . "
"What? To kill all humans and blow up the planet? They've done that"
"There is more though . . . "
"You mean to chase the ones left and kill them too? We can see them doing that now".
"Er?"


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 29, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Heroes literally lost the plot after series one but it is still great to watch for the powers and to laugh at the huge plot inconsistencies.
> 
> I actually think they pulled themselves back to something approaching respectability with the whole Carny season



Yeah, it is an improvement. Not sure about Samuel's ropey accent but it's watchable.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 29, 2010)

just caught up and it was easily the best episode so far. there's so much more scope to do doctor who justice over two episodes than a 'csi' 45 mins.



DotCommunist said:


> I'm still holding out for my theory that Song is a regeneration of Romana



now that would be cool  



radio_atomica said:


> my guess is that if amy is anyone of any significances daughter that we already know about and can guess its donna after she became the doctor-donna



i wonder if the hair colour is relevant.



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I just watched an extra on Trial of a Timelord about who cliffhangers.



that's a really interesting little feature, can't beat the caves of androzani firing squad ending imo   



jer said:


> I'm not sure if I'd have Trial as a success... although the opening 30 seconds were very state of the art fx for the time. And I did like the Matrix/Valleyard stuff at the end of the series.



'trial' was a curate's egg that suffered from all sorts of problems; 14 episodes that were sort of broken down into 4 separate stories, the original writer who was going to pen the denouement (robert holmes who did the first 4 eps) passing away before committing it to paper, then eric saward who took up the baton fell out with john nathan turner about the ending and pip & jane baker having to pick it up and come up with an ending over a weekend... oh, and the introduction of bonnie langford


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> that's a really interesting little feature, can't beat the caves of androzani firing squad ending imo
> :



Had me going as a kid and I had no problem with the flash gordon (TV) style android revelation at the beginning to the next ep. 

There are actually some great docs on that TOAT box set. Well worth the £2.50 I paid for it on amazon.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Had me going as a kid and I had no problem with the flash gordon (TV) style android revelation at the beginning to the next ep.



it perfectly fitted in with the evolving story and wasn't a fudge. when i watched it again a few years ago i'd forgotten what happened so recaptured some of the magic  



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> There are actually some great docs on that TOAT box set. Well worth the £2.50 I paid for it on amazon.



completely, i find all the behind-the-scenes and commentaries really interesting, especially as a fair amount of years have passed since the progs went out.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> writing for television isn't the same as writing a novel you plonker



Did I say it was? Nice to have a story arc though isn't it? I don't mind people making up Home and Away as they go along but do they do that with the wire? Or any planned UK series?

You plonker.


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2010)

that was a great cliffhanger in caves of androzani. i'm still not sure why it gets so much love all these years on though. i think it was voted best story ever in DWM by fans a while back


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> completely, i find all the behind-the-scenes and commentaries really interesting, especially as a fair amount of years have passed since the progs went out.



I love um. Without the docs and the production subs I would find them a bit of a struggle. I have not ever tried a commentary as of yet.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

strung_out said:


> that was a great cliffhanger in caves of androzani. i'm still not sure why it gets so much love all these years on though. i think it was voted best story ever in DWM by fans a while back



Waa . . it's not that great. Not sure what I would vote for. 
I think I would be tarnished by nostalgia and say City of Death or Destiny which probably don't deserve it.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Did I say it was? Nice to have a story arc though isn't it? I don't mind people making up Home and Away as they go along but do they do that with the wire? Or any planned UK series?
> 
> You plonker.



There was a story arc, eejit.  You lose loads by planning out so much in advance. Massive scope for getting fucking up by things beyond your control. The Wire _was_ made up pretty much as they went along, with just a general theme in mind. You can just about do it for two seasons, but beyond that, you're in the lap of the gods, all twelve of them.


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Waa . . it's not that great. Not sure what I would vote for.
> I think I would be tarnished by nostalgia and say City of Death or Destiny which probably don't deserve it.



i'd go for city of death, genesis of the daleks, the war games maybe. caves of androzani unbelievably came top of DWM polls in 2003 and 2009. it wouldn't even get in my top 20 i don't think.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I have not ever tried a commentary as of yet.



you should do, some of them are LOL funny. i wasn't sure to begin with but they always seem to be done with the right tone and you get loads of insights as the cast/writer/whoever remembers completely random stuff on the spot.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> There was a story arc, eejit. .



I'm the  idiot? Where is this fucking arc then? 
They hadn't written or even thought or mapped out any of the pivotal bits. That's not an arc, that's them flying off into space and being chased, there was nothing else there. . . 

Saying there are 12 models and that they have a plan (when they don't) isn't writing an arc.

They didn't have a clue where any of what they were writing was going. Great fun to watch at the time but now that I look back I think "hold on, all that time I was wondering what was really going on (in Gaius' head for example) the writers didn't have any better idea than me".


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 29, 2010)

It's pretty unusual for a US TV series to be planned out in advance. Babylon 5 got a lot of attention for doing so, because it was a rare exception to the rule. In fact it's the only long-running SF series I can think of that's done so.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 29, 2010)

Lost was too supposedly.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Lost was too supposedly.



i'm amazed.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> It's pretty unusual for a US TV series to be planned out in advance.



That excuse doesn't make them good.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 29, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i'm amazed.



You can see now it's shaping up though. There are baggy extra bits but it's still always had a start, a finish and a reason for all the mysteries. It even has a planned end apparently.


----------



## Iguana (Apr 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Saying there are 12 models and that they have a plan (when they don't) isn't writing an arc.
> 
> They didn't have a clue where any of what they were writing was going. Great fun to watch at the time but now that I look back I think "hold on, all that time I was wondering what was really going on (in Gaius' head for example) the writers didn't have any better idea than me".



I just had this conversation with my brother today.  Although our conversation was more the two of us agreeing with each other about how crap it turned out and how clear it became that the writers hadn't a fucking clue what they were doing and it turned into a farce.  Then we mocked our other brother for not admitting it (he wasn't there), while pointing out many of the litany of ridiculous shark jumping moments.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2010)

Iguana said:


> I just had this conversation with my brother today.  Although our conversation was more the two of us agreeing with each other about how crap it turned out and how clear it became that the writers hadn't a fucking clue what they were doing and it turned into a farce.  Then we mocked our other brother for not admitting it (he wasn't there), while pointing out many of the litany of ridiculous shark jumping moments.



It's a shame because it was so good, with so many good ideas. It just makes me more upset with it because I feel a bit betrayed.


----------



## belboid (Apr 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm the  idiot? Where is this fucking arc then?
> They hadn't written or even thought or mapped out any of the pivotal bits. That's not an arc, that's them flying off into space and being chased, there was nothing else there. . .
> 
> Saying there are 12 models and that they have a plan (when they don't) isn't writing an arc.
> ...



oh dear god.  I'll leave it after this as this is a Dr Who thread, but...the above is utter bilge that just proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't understand the medium, nor how writers write. So the story wasn't all planned ahead, makes no difference whtsoever, lots of great stories aren't.  Good writers let the storylines develop from the characters and one episode to the next.  The fact that they often don't know how it's gonna end is a positively _good thing_, cos they're not trying to suddenly ram in some ludicrous plot twist to get to the 'right' conclusion. You know, they _did_ know what was going on in Gaius' head, but they didn't know how it'd pan out, cos he didn't know either - not being actually omniscient.   The cylons did have a plan, but, again, the writers didn't know what it was.  In fact it was the fairly fucking obvious plan - 'kill all the fuckers (except the ones we want to experiment on).'  Not quite as dramatic as the opening implied, fer sure, but it is most definitely still a plan. 

You seem to be obsessed with just one aspect of drama, the 'big plot'. But it's only one aspect of the whole thing, and it's one of the least important.  Get over it.



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's a shame because it was so good, with so many good ideas. It just makes me more upset with it because I feel a bit betrayed.



  Betrayed?  Jesus, get a sense of perspective.  And realise it wasn't written just for you.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> oh dear god.  I'll leave it after this as this is a Dr Who thread, but...the above is utter bilge that just proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you don't understand the medium, nor how writers write.



Whoa check you out. No need to get your knickers in a twist dear. Did you write it or something??

I am very well aware what good writing is, like many people I have watched plenty of telly. I have also worked on plenty of TV programmes that involve writing a 'story'. 



> So the story wasn't all planned ahead, makes no difference whtsoever, lots of great stories aren't.


Lot's of 'great' stories aren't thought out in advance? Not sure about that one. 

Lots of stories may not planned ahead, but the main premise of BSG and the 'hook' was that something was going on . . . . but it wasn't. Some tv drama is ongoing but they still have story arcs that are planned ahead. 
Normally I wouldn't give a shit but the quality of writing for the episodes in general was good, it's just a shame it wasn't going anywhere. 



> You know, they _did_ know what was going on in Gaius' head, but they didn't know how it'd pan out, cos he didn't know either - not being actually omniscient.   The cylons did have a plan, but, again, the writers didn't know what it was.  In fact it was the fairly fucking obvious plan - 'kill all the fuckers (except the ones we want to experiment on).'  Not quite as dramatic as the opening implied, fer sure, but it is most definitely still a plan.


The writers didn't know what was happening in gaias' head, and admitted as such in the end. They just wanted to put in a cool idea that they would resolve later. Then they couldn't find / think of a way to make it work. They admitted that. 

I mentioned the plan before. The writers said that it was intended to lead to a major revelation that the cylons had something bigger going on. . . . . but then they couldn't think of one. 

In they end they were chucking final fives, reborn starbucks, magical timeless music and whole other civilizations of cylons into the plot, which they at best explained with the wonderfully lame cop out of 'god or something we don't understand'. Brilliant. 



> You seem to be obsessed with just one aspect of drama, the 'big plot'. But it's only one aspect of the whole thing, and it's one of the least important.  Get over it.
> 
> Betrayed?  Jesus, get a sense of perspective.  And realise it wasn't written just for you.



Lots of people complained about it, not just me. 
BSG didn't present itself as just a drama in space. From the beginning the writers promised a beginning, middle and end that wouldn't be padded out by the networks in the same way lost was. They said that! But they didn't even have a middle and an end FFS! Lost at least did (apparently).Fuck me even desperate housewives (that runs forever) resolves it's plot arcs and mysteries. 

I'm not sure why you have gotten yourself so upset by this. I just hope you can get over it soon.


----------



## Iguana (Apr 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> In they end they were chucking final fives, reborn starbucks, magical timeless music and whole other civilizations of cylons into the plot,



Not to mention Cylon 7, Daniel, because the writers had already given us cylons 1-6 & 8, and it didn't make sense for the final 5 to not be chronological.  Callie cheating on the Chief as they had given him a son before deciding he was a cylon and Hera was to be the only hybrid.  I mean fucking Callie who was obsessed with her husband is supposed to have had an affair with Hotdog?   Despite the fact that she tried to kill Nicky for being a hybrid but several episodes later actually always knew Hotdog was his dad.  The final 5 not actually being cylons at all, but just cloned humans from the 13th colony who were killed by cylons.  Though no one at any point mentioned that being a clone did not make them cylons, it also made a mockery of earlier claims that the cylons evolved.  And Kara as a fucking angel/ghost who was visited by the angel/ghost of her dad, who wrote the music which was magically the coordinates of a lovely planet.  Not to mention her and Lee's interminable and baffling affair.

It just turned so very, very shit.  And it's so disappointing because it was fantastic.  It had the potential to have been one of the very best television shows ever.  We were absolutely lead to believe that the writers had the basic plot points planned out in advance.  And that's why it was so intriguing.  We wanted to know what the cylons were up to, what was happening to Gaius, who on the fleet was a cylon.  We looked for clues and tried to make sense of things.  That only works if the writers actually know what's happening and are intentionally laying clues and red-herrings.  For them to just be throwing in portentous lines and seemingly important actions because they thought it might be cool and they'd work it out later, was shit, just so shit.  It means I don't even enjoy the earlier seasons as the nuance that was supposedly there, wasn't.


----------



## belboid (Apr 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm not sure why you have gotten yourself so upset by this. I just hope you can get over it soon.



you're the one who is upset.  You claimed to feel 'betrayed', tho now you're rolling back on that, probably cos you realise what a fucking prick you look.

Not quite as bad as the prat who was insisting Buffy was homophobic tho


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> you're the one who is upset.  You claimed to feel 'betrayed', tho now you're rolling back on that, probably cos you realise what a fucking prick you look.



Hello, have you heard of the internet? A lot of it is in text form. Do I seriously have to start using those smile things for the benefit of the people in the cheap seats? 

I'm not backtracking but maybe you took my 'betrayed' comment a bit to literally. (Maybe it is the same as your daft perceived venom towards me on the subject)
There was good writing, tension and some very very good, but more importantly 'intriguing' ideas in BSG. It had so much promise and stood head and shoulders above it's peers (and with all it's faults still does). It let itself down, and as a fan I felt very short changed by how it began to, and eventually resolved itself. 
Yeah I felt 'betrayed', but lets call it a 'let down' with more drama, if you need it dumbed down. 

Why is buffy homophobic?
(buffy is shit apart from the musical episode BTW buffy fans)


----------



## fogbat (Apr 30, 2010)

Atomic Suplex - He Hates _Everything_


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 30, 2010)

i'm enjoying all this doctor who chat!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i'm enjoying all this doctor who chat!



Alright alright. 

Today at lunchtime I watched the Dr in Distress video. I genuinely couldn't look at the screen for most of it. 

Oops that's not the new series.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Today at lunchtime I watched the Dr in Distress video. I genuinely couldn't look at the screen for most of it.



'distress' is most definitely the best word to describe that musical 'effort'


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> 'distress' is most definitely the best word to describe that musical 'effort'



What the fuck where they thinking?? I don't really remember it at the time. I think I might have given up on who at the time. The DVD says Who went up against Robin of Sherwood and I definitely watched that so this probably really was the end of my who period.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What the fuck where they thinking?? I don't really remember it at the time. I think I might have given up on who at the time. The DVD says Who went up against Robin of Sherwood and I definitely watched that so this probably really was the end of my who period.



i was slightly younger but don't remember it either, i think my parents were trying to shield me...

which i thank them for


----------



## fogbat (Apr 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What the fuck where they thinking?? I don't really remember it at the time. I think I might have given up on who at the time. The DVD says Who went up against Robin of Sherwood and I definitely watched that so this probably really was the end of my who period.



I loved Robin of Sherwood at the time.

Wonder how it'd stand up to repeat viewing.


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 30, 2010)

i preferred 'catweazle'.


----------



## hektik (Apr 30, 2010)

very glad to click on a doctor who thread and get a load of BSG chat. 

especially as I am only on series 2. Thanks for the spoilers guys.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I loved Robin of Sherwood at the time.
> 
> Wonder how it'd stand up to repeat viewing.



It was on ITV2 or 4 all he time a little while back. It was ok, some truly weird montage bits.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2010)

hektik said:


> Thanks for the spoilers guys.



Try to think of them as 'savers'.


----------



## belboid (Apr 30, 2010)

hektik said:


> very glad to click on a doctor who thread and get a load of BSG chat.
> 
> especially as I am only on series 2. Thanks for the spoilers guys.



oops, sorry


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 30, 2010)

once again it's time for the mindprobe.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 30, 2010)

NO! NOT THE MIND PROBE!



sorry


----------



## nicksonic (Apr 30, 2010)

no need to apologise


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2010)

Excellent, of course, even if it's getting unsuitable for family entertainment. Regan and Goneril squealed in excitement at the Pondlust.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 1, 2010)

Well, I quite enjoyed that.

I officially like Matt Smith now. He's taken a while to grow on me but grow he did fnar.

Not sure I like all this 'I'll sort you out Amy' stuff.


----------



## janeb (May 1, 2010)

Hells bells! Wish I'd taped that so I could watch it again, now! Does river kill the dr? Who the hell is Amy?  Brilliant stuff


----------



## gnoriac (May 1, 2010)

Yeah I was a bit surprised esp how the BBC seem to want to reposition it more into "family entertainment". But that was a cracking episode, best in ages.


----------



## pigtails (May 1, 2010)

Hmmm I'm not sure if it's working for me.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 1, 2010)

That was the best episode for as long as I can remember.

Amy is River and she kills the Doctor, no?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2010)

Meh.
Sounds like River does Kill the Doctor then, but time can change now (yawn).
I think Matt is better than David but he's still too young. 
Also . . . another running away episode with the plot turning on various maguffins. Not great.

What's with the sudden sexy on heat invasion? It's Dr Who, it's british and as such should be sexyless.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 1, 2010)

Loved it.  The bedroom scene had me in delight.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2010)

jer said:


> Amy is River and she kills the Doctor, no?


 
Oh, too easy. 

The compulsory shut-eye schtick was very, very good, wasn't it? Proper disturbing.


----------



## pigtails (May 1, 2010)

jer said:


> That was the best episode for as long as I can remember.
> 
> Amy is River and she kills the Doctor, no?



This was my feeling too.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What's with the sudden sexy on heat invasion? It's Dr Who, it's british and as such should be sexyless.


 
Unfortunately, Moffat has a clear heterosexual agenda.


----------



## spanglechick (May 1, 2010)

amy isn't river song.  I'm just not having it.

where's her scottish accent?  her red hair?


----------



## DexterTCN (May 1, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> amy isn't river song.  I'm just not having it.
> 
> where's her scottish accent?  her red hair?


She didn't have a Scots accent at the start.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 1, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> amy isn't river song.  I'm just not having it.
> 
> where's her scottish accent?  her red hair?



You can lose your accent and hair can change colour over the years.


----------



## spanglechick (May 1, 2010)

jer said:


> You can lose your accent and hair can change colour over the years.


in 20 years? and go curly?  bollocks.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 1, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> in 20 years? and go curly?  bollocks.



When I was a kid I had an American accent, the last 10 years in London have tapered my Irish accent and my hair has disappeared.


----------



## emanymton (May 1, 2010)

janeb said:


> Hells bells! Wish I'd taped that so I could watch it again, now! Does river kill the dr? Who the hell is Amy?  Brilliant stuff



BBC iplayer?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 1, 2010)

That was _fantastic_


----------



## janeb (May 1, 2010)

emanymton said:


> BBC iplayer?



Am stuck without Internet connection at the moment and phones too small


----------



## janeb (May 1, 2010)

26.06.2010 = last episode in this series


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Meh.
> Sounds like River does Kill the Doctor then, but time can change now (yawn).
> I think Matt is better than David but he's still too young.
> Also . . . another running away episode with the plot turning on various maguffins. Not great.
> ...



You're a right miserable bugger at times


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 1, 2010)

janeb said:


> 26.06.2010 = last episode in this series



That's nice 

I don't think Amy is River. I do think River kills the doctor, but I think it will be told in such a way as they never get tied into a timeline or whatever and don't ever necessarily have to show it.

The whole 'can rewrite time' thing seems like it's threatening to stray into 'and they woke up and it had all been a dream' territory .


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> in 20 years? and go curly?  bollocks.



I used to be blonde with a thick west-country accent. I now have dark brown hair and talk all poshy posh like.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I used to be blonde with a thick west-country accent. I now have dark brown hair and talk all poshy posh like.



Exactly.

People can change a lot, physically, over the years. Just ask the Doctor...


----------



## spanglechick (May 1, 2010)

it is not possible to go from fine straight hair to hair like river song's as an adult.  blondes tend to darken in childhood / adolescence, and the same time period can fade red hair, but colour change in an adult with red hair between the age of 20 and 40 is only ever likely to be to white - redheads are especially succeptible to premature colour loss - and it tends to go white rather than grey.  but not blonde. not as an adult.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2010)

jer said:


> Exactly.
> 
> People can change a lot, physically, over the years. Just ask the Doctor...



Seems a bit of a stretch that she would change from such a pretty young thing into that lady from RE though.


----------



## ericjarvis (May 1, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> it is not possible to go from fine straight hair to hair like river song's as an adult.  blondes tend to darken in childhood / adolescence, and the same time period can fade red hair, but colour change in an adult with red hair between the age of 20 and 40 is only ever likely to be to white - redheads are especially succeptible to premature colour loss - and it tends to go white rather than grey.  but not blonde. not as an adult.



However it is also not possible to travel through time and space in an old police box. Even if most of time and space is actually within 15 miles of Cardiff.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 1, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> it is not possible to go from fine straight hair to hair like river song's as an adult.  blondes tend to darken in childhood / adolescence, and the same time period can fade red hair, but colour change in an adult with red hair between the age of 20 and 40 is only ever likely to be to white - redheads are especially succeptible to premature colour loss - and it tends to go white rather than grey.  but not blonde. not as an adult.





ericjarvis said:


> However it is also not possible to travel through time and space in an old police box. Even if most of time and space is actually within 15 miles of Cardiff.



Exactly


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2010)

The last two episodes have been completely uninvolving. It's like Moffat is parodying RTD, only just the "ridiculous plots where everybody just runs around until the deus ex machina arrives" part and not the "enormous spaceships stealing planets and doing huge impressive shit" part. "Blink" was tightly-plotted and internally consistent, now there's just new bits being added on to the Angels with no consistency at all. Yeah, they're going to circle people aren't they, given that that was how they were trapped in the original episode. Oh they can infect people who look at them now, yeah why not.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2010)

What's the matter with you? It was a perfectly good episode and here you are, carrying on like the bastard child of Eeyore and Lawrence Miles.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What's the matter with you? It was a perfectly good episode and here you are, carrying on like the bastard child of Eeyore and Lawrence Miles.



She just said exactly what I was thinking (and sort of posted a little earlier on)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> The last two episodes have been completely uninvolving. It's like Moffat is parodying RTD, only just the "ridiculous plots where everybody just runs around until the deus ex machina arrives" part and not the "enormous spaceships stealing planets and doing huge impressive shit" part. "Blink" was tightly-plotted and internally consistent, now there's just new bits being added on to the Angels with no consistency at all. Yeah, they're going to circle people aren't they, given that that was how they were trapped in the original episode. Oh they can infect people who look at them now, yeah why not.



I do think people forget that's it's a family show at prime time on a Saturday.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 1, 2010)

it wasn't nearly as good as blink

however  it wasn't too bad

however

can we not  have    a few companions  who arn't the fucking centre  of the universe?

at least   the   rewriting history  thing   could  be used  to remove  some of the  shit  from the story...  but  yeah   will probably  just   be  kept  so   people  can retcon as  needed


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 1, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> can we not  have    a few companions  who arn't the fucking centre  of the universe?



Now, I have to say, I'd rather take a Donna over a Martha any day. I quite like it when the characters are also the story. That said, I just can't get on with that Pond woman.

And I really don't think it's necessary for the doctor to snog all his companions. It was done okay with Donna - but there was no sexual tension there. It was incredibly refreshing. I really, really expected to hate Tate in it, but I ended up loving her to bits.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What's the matter with you? It was a perfectly good episode and here you are, carrying on like the bastard child of Eeyore and Lawrence Miles.



They would have got a better script if they'd contracted it out to Who fanfic writers. In _Livejournal communities_.

I quite liked the space whale one, that was proper Who (though it felt a bit like it was cribbed from a 2000AD Future Shock) but the last three have been lazy rubbish. The Dalek Churchill was excusable as one-off daftness but this is plot arc stuff - it implies that we're in for even more boring handwaving, suddenly-introduced details, inconsistencies, enormous plot holes and lots of running about looking desperate. Note to writers: putting "Doctor shouts" in the script does not make something dramatic.

My far more tolerant friend, with whom I was arguing last night about the first half of this one, IMed me after it finished to say 





> Yeah, ok, Moffat's shit


I'm hoping by the way that the Doctor really _is_ meant to be brain-damaged in some way in this series, since he just goes about gurning the whole time and waving his screwdriver, rather than saying or doing things indicating intelligence.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I do think people forget that's it's a family show at prime time on a Saturday.



So it should be bad? This doesn't work. Lots of previous Who has been good and also a family show at prime time on a Saturday. That's the _point_, that's why we have threads like this but we don't about the Lottery or Total Wipeout.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2010)

They got rid of K9 and the screwdriver for a reason the last time. Ugh. Think Moffat think.


----------



## pigtails (May 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> So it should be bad? This doesn't work. Lots of previous Who has been good and also a family show at prime time on a Saturday. That's the _point_, that's why we have threads like this but we don't about the Lottery or Total Wipeout.



*Ahem*


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2010)

Predictions from yesterday by me:


> 23:41:53 me: well, it just ended
> 23:41:57 me: and it didn't make any sense.
> 23:42:16 me: I'm not impressed, though until then it was better than the previous.
> 23:43:28 me: It feels like children trying to put together a plot using chunks of previous episodes.
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2010)

pigtails said:


> *Ahem*





All right, we don't have threads about the plot of Total Wipeout and how this week's episode is just _totally inconsistent with previous storylines and a disgrace_.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2010)

If they'd been honest about it being a Gladiators reboot, which it is, then we'd be posting madly about how none of them are a patch on Wolf and Eunice.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 1, 2010)

well none of the would be as good as wolf


----------



## Melinda (May 1, 2010)

Just popped in to say, I still dont believe Matt Smith. Some nice touches tonight, but nothing Tennant wouldn't have done better. 


And that I agree with Iguana and Suplex about BSG. Quite annoying to read Ron Moore interviews and discover how little the writers planned, and the patheticly empty explanations for all gaping plot holes and incomplete storylines. The feelings of  let down are proportionate to the level of expectations raised by the writers  that there was some over arching bigger picture for the series.

As for 'spoilers,' its been 6 bloody years!!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> So it should be bad? This doesn't work.



But it wasn't bad, and it did work.

Just as long as you remember it's a flagship Saturday night prime time show aimed at families, not internet based obsessive nerds.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2010)

If you tried to get away with those sort of shenanigans with Eastenders, the phone lines would go down with complaints. It's like bringing back Grant, but he's got an afro (which nobody refers to, as far as they're concerned he always had it) and then he beats somebody up with ninja skills that he always had secretly, and turns out in a shock revelation to have Peggy being his daughter rather than his mum, and then he takes a taxi out of the square at the end of the double episode.


----------



## fogbat (May 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If you tried to get away with those sort of shenanigans with Eastenders, the phone lines would go down with complaints. It's like bringing back Grant, but he's got an afro (which nobody refers to, as far as they're concerned he always had it) and then he beats somebody up with ninja skills that he always had secretly, and turns out in a shock revelation to have Peggy being his daughter rather than his mum, and then he takes a taxi out of the square at the end of the double episode.



Eastenders will never be that good.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 1, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If you tried to get away with those sort of shenanigans with Eastenders, the phone lines would go down with complaints. It's like bringing back Grant, but he's got an afro (which nobody refers to, as far as they're concerned he always had it) and then he beats somebody up with ninja skills that he always had secretly, and turns out in a shock revelation to have Peggy being his daughter rather than his mum, and then he takes a taxi out of the square at the end of the double episode.



It's bubblegum sci-fi. You can get away with doing anything, as long as it's entertaining. That's the point.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 1, 2010)

it used to try and  have plot and story

yeah sure it had  an element  of bubble  gum  but    it  didn't  feel like being crushed to death by a crate of double fresh


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Eastenders will never be that good.



In retrospect that probably wasn't the best comparison really 

It's like that, but in _a bad way_.


----------



## Helen Back (May 1, 2010)

Possible spoiler from Confidential?

Matt Smith: "You don't often find them in a bedroom sat on a bed chilling out, usually they're being chased by an Angel or a Silurian or something..."


----------



## Helen Back (May 2, 2010)

From Wikipedia: 

"In 2015, Dr Nasreen Chaudhry is leading the deepest drilling of Earth's crust in history. But deep beneath, something is drilling up."

Sounds like a rehash of series 7's "Inferno" but maybe the spoiler above and the title of the following episode "Cold Blood" confirms the Silurian appearance.


----------



## Iguana (May 2, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The last two episodes have been completely uninvolving. It's like Moffat is parodying RTD, only just the "ridiculous plots where everybody just runs around until the deus ex machina arrives" part and not the "enormous spaceships stealing planets and doing huge impressive shit" part.



I agree.  I really feel like I'm sat outside the episode looking in.  I can see what the series is trying to do, but it's just not doing it.  Too much style over substance.


----------



## 8den (May 2, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, they're going to circle people aren't they, given that that was how they were trapped in the original episode. Oh they can infect people who look at them now, yeah why not.



And Daleks couldn't deal with Stairs and Cybermen could be beaten by a Gold Coin at certain points. 

Sorry it's Doctor Who, it's the show that invented reconning. I don't always agree with Doctor Who's writers but I can buy the occasional change in powers/weakness of a villain.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 2, 2010)

Iguana said:


> I agree.  I really feel like I'm sat outside the episode looking in.  I can see what the series is trying to do, but it's just not doing it.  Too much style over substance.



Aw hell no. This is the only show on TV, absolutely the only one, where you need to unleash your inner eight-year-old when you watch it. That child is still in there, right, the one capable of wonder?


----------



## CNT36 (May 2, 2010)

Did anyone else find that seeing the angels move kind if ruined it? Also the doctors lucky to always have an enemy turn up in the nick of time to save him from certain doom. The cybermen had pretty much won in doomsday until the daleks turned up as had the master at christmas until the timelords appeared and now the cracks turnedup just in time to stop the  angels.


----------



## radio_atomica (May 2, 2010)

well I quite liked it? thought it was really scary when she had to close her eyes.  I think the reason why it seems both rushed and loads of stuff just cobbled together is because the episodes aren't long enough.  I have to say with this one I couldn't really follow why anything was happening, it was like they got stuck in an impossible situation and then something came out of nowhere that by coincidence saved them with no real explanation...which has always been what annoyed me about dr who when tennant used to just turn round and go 'ah yes of course blah blah blah' and suddenly they were saved.


----------



## Spion (May 2, 2010)

It is utter bollocks really, isn't it? It's just nice to look at with your brain off. Why it's impossible to have a decent plot, I just don't know.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> But it wasn't bad, and it did work.
> 
> Just as long as you remember it's a flagship Saturday night prime time show aimed at families



I think that's why they stole the plot from total wipeout. 



beesonthewhatnow said:


> not internet based obsessive nerds.


Hold on though, isn't that exactly who it is aimed at?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's bubblegum sci-fi. You can get away with doing anything, as long as it's entertaining. That's the point.



I think good stories are entertaining. I think running around and then fixing things with you magic screwdriver or whatever is boring.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2010)

Melinda said:


> Just popped in to say, I still dont believe Matt Smith. Some nice touches tonight, but nothing Tennant wouldn't have done better.
> 
> 
> And that I agree with Iguana and Suplex about BSG. Quite annoying to read Ron Moore interviews and discover how little the writers planned, and the patheticly empty explanations for all gaping plot holes and incomplete storylines. The feelings of  let down are proportionate to the level of expectations raised by the writers  that there was some over arching bigger picture for the series.
> ...



PS.

In your face bealoid or what whatever you name is.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 2, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Hold on though, isn't that exactly who it is aimed at?



It's on at half past 6 on a Saturday, come on, who do you think they're aiming it at?




ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think good stories are entertaining. I think running around and then fixing things with you magic screwdriver or whatever is boring.



I imagine 10 year old kids think it's brilliant though.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 2, 2010)

Would all the haters please fuck off to a thread they enjoy....I'll pop in and try and spoil it for you when I get a minute/personality transplant. 

Anyone who watched the first 3 series of BSG would tell anyone who'd only watched a few episodes at the start to give it time...but in here it's judgemental city at the same point.

Respect the thing!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's on at half past 6 on a Saturday, come on, who do you think they're aiming it at?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like to give kids more credit. I watched Dr Who when I was ten and liked it pretty much without question. However, when a story was good I liked it more. In the end the stories got too shit and I stopped watching and so did everybody else. I don't understand this 'it's good enough, why try harder' attitude to writing (BSG included).

While I am at it . . .BSG was always only going to be four series long (unless it got cancelled). You would have thought with that in mind they would have some kind of  . . .*cough* . . plan.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (May 2, 2010)

He fucking owned those angels though didn't he? Threw them out of the universe and shut the door behind them. Not exactly the previous Docs method...


----------



## CNT36 (May 2, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> He fucking owned those angels though didn't he? Threw them out of the universe and shut the door behind them. Not exactly the previous Docs method...



He did a similar thing to the daleks and cybermen but yeah was good. My seven year old enjoyed that but if also watched earthshock last night which he seemed to prefer even if he has seen it before. He never wants to watch eleventh hour again.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> He did a similar thing to the daleks and cybermen but yeah was good. My seven year old enjoyed that but if also watched earthshock last night which he seemed to prefer even if he has seen it before. He never wants to watch eleventh hour again.



Earth Shock is Awesome.

Finally Adric gets it and so do all the dinosaurs. Genocide.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 2, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> He fucking owned those angels though didn't he? Threw them out of the universe and shut the door behind them. Not exactly the previous Docs method...



This one does seem to have a bit of a temper to him.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> This one does seem to have a bit of a temper to him.



Not as much as the shouty strangling clown one. He pushed a man to his death.


----------



## Ms T (May 2, 2010)

Alex Kingston was brilliant in that, I thought, and had proper chemistry with Matt Smith even though she's way older than him.  More of her, please.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (May 2, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s971z/Doctor_Who_Series_5_Flesh_and_Stone/

17:33- doctors hand touches Amy. He's without his jacket cos the Angels nicked it, and his shirt sleeves go down to his wrists.


17:42- doctors hands touch Amy's. He's wearing a jacket and his sleeves are rolled up.

Doctor: Now listen, remember what I told you when you were seven.
Amy: What did you tell me?
Doctor: No, that's not the point. You have to remember.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2010)

I've got a tenner that says pond and the doc are fucking irl on the sly


----------



## Ms T (May 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got a tenner that says pond and the doc are fucking irl on the sly



He's shagging Daisy Lowe, isn't he?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got a tenner that says pond and the doc are fucking irl on the sly



Ah I have it. 

Pond and the Doctor do the nasty the doctor sods off in his tardis and amy later gives birth to river but dies in child birth. River (naming herself that because of her mothers name 'pond') looks for her father and finds weirdness and has nothing but hate for the man that deserted her mother. When River first finds the doctor (who is being 'john smith' at the time) she kills him but then finds his tardis. Being of the doctors blood the tardis communicates with river and teaches her about driving it and stuff. River bumps into another tardis on her travels and meets a different looking doctor. She doesn't know it is the same guy and has a strange attraction as doe the doctor. Little do both of them know that the attraction is not genuinely sexual and is in fact because they are related. They shag and produce pond who they drop off on earth or something. 

All the paradox shenanigans create a crack in time from around the time the doctor and pond first meet. Or something.


----------



## pigtails (May 2, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ah I have it.
> 
> Pond and the Doctor do the nasty the doctor sods off in his tardis and amy later gives birth to river but dies in child birth. River (naming herself that because of her mothers name 'pond') looks for her father and finds weirdness and has nothing but hate for the man that deserted her mother. When River first finds the doctor (who is being 'john smith' at the time) she kills him but then finds his tardis. Being of the doctors blood the tardis communicates with river and teaches her about driving it and stuff. River bumps into another tardis on her travels and meets a different looking doctor. She doesn't know it is the same guy and has a strange attraction as doe the doctor. Little do both of them know that the attraction is not genuinely sexual and is in fact because they are related. They shag and produce pond who they drop off on earth or something.
> 
> All the paradox shenanigans create a crack in time from around the time the doctor and pond first meet. Or something.



If it's _not_ that it bloody well should be!!


----------



## feyr (May 2, 2010)

that is a great theory


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2010)

it is a balls theory.


----------



## Quartz (May 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> it is a balls theory.



Yeah, well some men do think with their balls from time to time.


----------



## rollinder (May 2, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s971z/Doctor_Who_Series_5_Flesh_and_Stone/
> 
> 17:33- doctors hand touches Amy. He's without his jacket cos the Angels nicked it, and his shirt sleeves go down to his wrists.
> 
> ...



I fucking knew that wasn't the same version of the Doctor coming back


----------



## ivebeenhigh (May 2, 2010)

at the end of the episode amy says

"the morning is a long time away"

and then just after there is a shot of her alarm clock that ticks over from 11:59pm till 12pm.  like there is a crack in time?


----------



## cesare (May 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got a tenner that says pond and the doc are fucking irl on the sly



I watched Confidential on iplayer. "Smoochy smoothy time *giggles*". I'll not take your bet, my tenner's back under the mattress.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 3, 2010)

radio_atomica said:


> well I quite liked it? thought it was really scary when she had to close her eyes.  I think the reason why it seems both rushed and loads of stuff just cobbled together is because the episodes aren't long enough.  I have to say with this one I couldn't really follow why anything was happening, it was like they got stuck in an impossible situation and then something came out of nowhere that by coincidence saved them with no real explanation...which has always been what annoyed me about dr who when tennant used to just turn round and go 'ah yes of course blah blah blah' and suddenly they were saved.



I felt the same way, just felt too rushed and made no sense.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 3, 2010)

What's all this?  People didn't like it?  Pah.  Nerds.

I liked it.  And I liked the bit where Amy wants "sorted out" at the end.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 3, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> What's all this?  People didn't like it?  Pah.  Nerds.
> 
> I liked it.  And I liked the bit where Amy wants "sorted out" at the end.



Perv 

Though I rather liked that bit too!


----------



## AverageJoe (May 3, 2010)

ivebeenhigh said:


> at the end of the episode amy says
> 
> "the morning is a long time away"
> 
> and then just after there is a shot of her alarm clock that ticks over from 11:59pm till 12pm.  like there is a crack in time?



It actually moves from 11.59am on 25/6 to 12.00pm on 26/6......

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2652/aaaaaaaconfusing.jpg


----------



## innit (May 3, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> Did anyone else find that seeing the angels move kind if ruined it?



No, that was proper scary.



Ms T said:


> He's shagging Daisy Lowe, isn't he?



Bad taste   but not as outright mindbleach demanding as Tennant and his screen daughter.

I thought it was good.  I like the way he's pulling lots of those initial hints together in episode 4 instead of dangling them out all series like RTD.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 3, 2010)

cesare said:


> I watched Confidential on iplayer. "Smoochy smoothy time *giggles*". I'll not take your bet, my tenner's back under the mattress.



the confidentials are where it comes through imo. Check the amy-centric Confidential. I was all like 'boning fo sho'


----------



## DexterTCN (May 3, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> What's all this?  People didn't like it?  Pah.  Nerds.
> 
> I liked it.  And I liked the bit where Amy wants "sorted out" at the end.


DW "I'm 900 and blah blah years old...you know what that means?"
Amy "It's been a while?"  Jumps on him.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 3, 2010)

So far my ex school man has worked in getting Alex Kingston to fall ontop of him and is probably shagging Pond.

See what single sex education does?


----------



## Balbi (May 3, 2010)

That whole bit in the bedroom with Pond trying it on made me facepalm so fucking hard I left a mark.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 3, 2010)

900 on 21 would make him a nonce so epic he is off the Fritzl scale though.


----------



## Balbi (May 3, 2010)

Not just that, it's like adding Rose, Martha and BARROWMAN! together and unleashing them at a time where you're comfortable that the new sidekick is pissed off enough with Dr 11 to avoid romantic elements and spend her time critiquing him for the purpose of character exposition on the new Doctor's personality. Moffat failed hard with the attempt at T. Davies style shagorama.


----------



## cesare (May 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> the confidentials are where it comes through imo. Check the amy-centric Confidential. I was all like 'boning fo sho'



Is that a different Confidential? I found the other two on iplayer by accident under recommendations.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 3, 2010)

yeah, there is one that focuses entirely on Amy, and you see Matt rocking a leather jacket saying 'I've fallen in love with her a little bit' with the sort of half smirk that screams 'I'm well and truly on it'.

If I am right it will not come to light for ages. Family show and that. Ooh I think it was the confidential for the Starship UK episode iirc


----------



## cesare (May 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah, there is one that focuses entirely on Amy, and you see Matt rocking a leather jacket saying 'I've fallen in love with her a little bit' with the sort of half smirk that screams 'I'm well and truly on it'.
> 
> If I am right it will not come to light for ages. Family show and that. Ooh I think it was the confidential for the Starship UK episode iirc



I'll have a look around for it later when I'm insomniacing. They were so giggly/knowing on the one that I saw, that it was pretty obvious


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 3, 2010)

Balbi said:


> That whole bit in the bedroom with Pond trying it on made me facepalm so fucking hard I left a mark.



This. It came completely out of nowhere as well. Just when you think they're not going to bother with that tiresome 'companion falls in love with the Doctor' thing again they go and tack that shit on for no good reason.

Other than that I enjoyed it, even if it did feel like the angels from blink were reduced to the status of another bog standard who villain.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> 900 on 21 would make him a nonce so epic he is off the Fritzl scale though.



Not to mention the fact that Pond is clearly his daughter/his mum/his wife/a regenerated form of himself from the future/River Song/Davros in drag/only a dream. How inappropriate is that ffs?


----------



## radio_atomica (May 3, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I felt the same way, just felt too rushed and made no sense.



Yeah, people were complaining that the first one wasn't very good but because it was longer I think the process whereby the whole thing with the atraxi was solved was at least explained well enough.  I think another 15 mins per episode would be enough for them to get enough in to make it complex enough to be enjoyable but also give a better pace so it can be explained, still with time for teasers about what's to come.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 3, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> This. It came completely out of nowhere as well. Just when you think they're not going to bother with that tiresome 'companion falls in love with the Doctor' thing again they go and tack that shit on for no good reason...


Oi!   She's been fascinated with him since she was a wee girl!


----------



## janeb (May 3, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> Oi!   She's been fascinated with him since she was a wee girl!



Fascinated, yes - but not so sure she loves him, think she just fancied a 'night before my wedding night / just cheated certain death' shag


----------



## danny la rouge (May 4, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> DW "I'm 900 and blah blah years old...you know what that means?"
> Amy "It's been a while?"  Jumps on him.


Are we calling him DW now?    Excellent. And pronouncing the initials?  That'll piss the nerds off.


----------



## Pingu (May 4, 2010)

well i for one am eagerly anticipating the post watershed episode where she gets her tits out and has a lesbo session with sara jane


[serious] the scene was unessesary imo and not really in the spirit of Dr Who [/serious]


----------



## CNT36 (May 4, 2010)

innit said:


> No, that was proper scary.



I didn'tthik so. I thought it ruined the angels. DW10's explantion suggested  they only looked like statues when you were lookin at them. That mystery made them slighlty more scary as I wondered what the hell they were. Now they're just statues that move and who are scared of a girl with her eyes closed. Instincts my arse. Also someone said this series made tem feel outside of the story and not really involved with the characters. That scene didn't help.


----------



## Pigeon (May 4, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ah I have it.
> 
> Pond and the Doctor do the nasty the doctor sods off in his tardis and amy later gives birth to river but dies in child birth. River (naming herself that because of her mothers name 'pond') looks for her father and finds weirdness and has nothing but hate for the man that deserted her mother. When River first finds the doctor (who is being 'john smith' at the time) she kills him but then finds his tardis. Being of the doctors blood the tardis communicates with river and teaches her about driving it and stuff. River bumps into another tardis on her travels and meets a different looking doctor. She doesn't know it is the same guy and has a strange attraction as doe the doctor. Little do both of them know that the attraction is not genuinely sexual and is in fact because they are related. They shag and produce pond who they drop off on earth or something.
> 
> All the paradox shenanigans create a crack in time from around the time the doctor and pond first meet. Or something.



Genius!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> I didn'tthik so. I thought it ruined the angels. DW10's explantion suggested  they only looked like statues when you were lookin at them. That mystery made them slighlty more scary as I wondered what the hell they were. Now they're just statues that move and who are scared of a girl with her eyes closed. Instincts my arse. Also someone said this series made tem feel outside of the story and not really involved with the characters. That scene didn't help.



They were able to move "normally" because Amy had her eyes closed, so the restrictions on their movement were gone.


----------



## strung out (May 4, 2010)

did anyone notice near the start of the episode, when they're on the bridge of the spaceship, the doctor leans up against a wall, looking for a way to open it, and as he leans, the wall looks decidedly wobbly, almost as if it's made of cardboard


----------



## elevendayempire (May 4, 2010)

My big problem with the whole "crack in time" story arc:



Spoiler: Doctor Who, obviously



The whole thing seems to have been conceived of as a way of "purging" the alien invasions of the last five years from the Who timeline (note that Amy had no idea who the Daleks are a couple of weeks ago, when they _invaded the planet_ at the end of season 4). Fair enough, it is getting a little implausible for them to do stories on a present-day Earth which resembles our own when 1) alien spaceships have crashed into Big Ben, 2) The Master assassinated the President of the USA on live TV and 3) The Daleks moved the Earth to a different part of the galaxy and invaded in force. Oh, and 4) a big alien blob thing came to Earth and wanted to harvest our children in Torchwood.

But that sort of thing happened all the time in the old series, and they just got on with it. You don't need a continuity-salving explanation or a retcon, you just carry on doing stories set on a recognisable present-day Earth and let the fans worry about it.

By addressing this issue - and by introducing the ludicrously-convoluted timeline of River Song into the series - I do worry that Moffat's slowly but surely turning off the casual audience by pandering to teh fanboiz.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 4, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> My big problem with the whole "crack in time" story arc:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well yes but it was all very small scale or in the future. Anyway I think you are right, I don't think it matters. Nobody cared that all the invasions in during the 3rd Doctors rein happened handily round the corner from the unit base in the middle of nowhere.


----------



## nightowl (May 4, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Well yes but it was all very small scale or in the future. Anyway I think you are right, I don't think it matters. Nobody cared that all the invasions in during the 3rd Doctors rein happened handily round the corner from the unit base in the middle of nowhere.



convenient for bbc budgets at the time as well


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 4, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Well yes but it was all very small scale or in the future. Anyway I think you are right, I don't think it matters. Nobody cared that all the invasions in during the 3rd Doctors rein happened handily round the corner from the unit base in the middle of nowhere.



what about the auton invasion

or the  dinosaurs

or  the  nessie in the thames?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 4, 2010)

or  BBC 3


----------



## elevendayempire (May 4, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Well yes but it was all very small scale or in the future. Anyway I think you are right, I don't think it matters. Nobody cared that all the invasions in during the 3rd Doctors rein happened handily round the corner from the unit base in the middle of nowhere.


They had a dinosaur swimming up the Thames in Terror of the Zygons. And killer shop-window dummies marauding through the streets of London in Spearhead From Space. Not to mention Yetis in the Underground and a bloody great Dalek shuttle landing in 1963 London...


----------



## elevendayempire (May 4, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> what about the auton invasion
> 
> or the  dinosaurs
> 
> or  the  nessie in the thames?


Grr, beat me to it.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 4, 2010)

forgot  about the yetis on the tube


i wonder if  they got fined £20


----------



## CNT36 (May 4, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> They were able to move "normally" because Amy had her eyes closed, so the restrictions on their movement were gone.



 Yeah I understand that. I just thought it reduced the impact. Part of the appeal for me was that you didn't know anything about them when they were unseen. Now they're just statues that move. It also gives you a perspective the characters can never have which in this case adds very little. The cameraman was still watching and so surely they couldn't move. I'm sure there were scenes in blink where the only eyes on the angels were those of the audience and they didn't move which was a nice touch.


----------



## innit (May 4, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> I'm sure there were scenes in blink where the only eyes on the angels were those of the audience and they didn't move which was a nice touch.



I think you are wrong about this.


----------



## Augie March (May 5, 2010)

So... the episode after the next one is called Amy's Choice. The plot summary is thus:



Spoiler



It's been five years since Amy Pond last travelled with the Doctor, and when he lands in her garden again, on the eve of the birth of her first child, she finds herself facing a heartbreaking choice – one that will change her life for ever.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/proginfo/tv/2010/wk20/sat.shtml#sat_drwho


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2010)

Augie March said:


> So... the episode after the next one is called Amy's Choice. The plot summary is thus:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: I wonder



If it's DW's child.


----------



## fogbat (May 5, 2010)

Is it a SF version of Sophie's Choice?

Cause I think that'd be a bit harrowing for Saturday night entertainment


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 5, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Spoiler: I wonder
> 
> 
> 
> If it's DW's child.





Spoiler: of course



And of course it's River. The choice being if she should call it river or not. . . .


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Spoiler: of course
> 
> 
> 
> And of course it's River. The choice being if she should call it river or not. . . .





Spoiler: however...



What's would be so heartbreaking about that?


----------



## fogbat (May 5, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Spoiler: however...
> 
> 
> 
> What's would be so heartbreaking about that?





Spoiler: It's



a really stupid name


----------



## rollinder (May 5, 2010)

from the massive spoiler in the preview in Doctor Who magazine, it sounds like more of a 



Spoiler: spoiler



which reality is reality, and which is a dream story, which ties in with the "what if our dreams no longer needs us" bit from {i]that[/i] book ("written by a madman" - imo blates The Doctor in the future..)

bit of Donna losing her fake children in the computer 'reality' too


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2010)

That makes a fuck of a lot more sense than the stuff these fairweather geeks are coming up with


----------



## fogbat (May 5, 2010)

A series-long "it was all a dream" cop-out would be really annoying.


----------



## Doppelgänger (May 5, 2010)

fogbat said:


> A series-long "it was all a dream" cop-out would be really annoying.



Especially if it is David Tennant's Doctor who wakes up!


----------



## rollinder (May 5, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Especially if it is David Tennant's Doctor who wakes up!



Doctor Ten steps out of the Tardis shower....

or Paul McGann wakes up in bed with Grace /oldcomicstrips


----------



## fogbat (May 5, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Especially if it is David Tennant's Doctor who wakes up!



That'd be brilliant 

I might start spreading this rumour...


----------



## elevendayempire (May 5, 2010)

rollinder said:


> Doctor Ten steps out of the Tardis shower....
> 
> or Paul McGann wakes up in bed with Grace /oldcomicstrips


+10 geek points for remembering the old DWM strip.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2010)

ah DWM. I still recall with fondness the edition that had pictures of Peri Peri Sauce in a bikini. Happy days.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> ah DWM. I still recall with fondness the edition that had pictures of Peri Peri Sauce in a bikini. Happy days.


The Doctor Who Image Archive is your friend.


----------



## fogbat (May 5, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> The Doctor Who Image Archive is your friend.



God bless you, nerds.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 5, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Spoiler: however...
> 
> 
> 
> What's would be so heartbreaking about that?



Because she would be told by the doctor what the child needs to be called to keep the universe in order but it would also mean she would give birth to some crazy incest child and her lovers killer.


----------



## rollinder (May 5, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> +10 geek points for remembering the old DWM strip.



slight cheat cos there's a tiny flashback in the latest issue, but that was an epic strip & that part/chapter was hilarious


----------



## Stigmata (May 5, 2010)

rollinder said:


> from the massive spoiler in the preview in Doctor Who magazine, it sounds like more of a
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I assumed it would have something to with that "Time can be rewritten" phrase that keeps cropping up.


----------



## fazey101 (May 5, 2010)

why do u argue about the realisticness fgs everyone knows that policemen dont go round the in time travelling phone boxs..its meant to be fun,..


----------



## belboid (May 5, 2010)

finally been able to watch it, cracking episode, a couple of minor gripes aside. nice and scary at times, and good and funny at others.  marvellous ending, of course Amy'd want to snog the pants of the doc


----------



## Axilotil (May 6, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> This is the only saving grace of that episode, I think. That and the trailer for next week's.
> 
> I was also remarkably underwhelmed by the doctor and Amy's acting. Everyone keeps harping on about how freaking awesome they are at acting. They weren't thinking of that episode when they said that.



Late in, but that was definately the down to the hellish scriptwriting, rather than Matt and Amy.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

Vampires of Venice tonight 

Doctor Who + Vampires= Win surely?


----------



## Stigmata (May 8, 2010)

A mate reckons the historical setting + real world monster episodes are always a letdown. I choose to be optimistic because I really like this new series so far.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

theshakespear one was mint


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2010)

Vampires are 'real world monsters'?


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> theshakespear one was mint



bingo.  one of my very favourites - despte Martha *spit*


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> theshakespear one was mint



I thought it was too "omg English heritage is meaningful on cosmic scales". I didn't mind the werewolves much though.

Can't stand vampires, fuck off my media landscape you 80s throwbacks.


----------



## Stigmata (May 8, 2010)

emanymton said:


> Vampires are 'real world monsters'?



Vampires, werewolves, witches and ghosts as opposed to Zygons, Krillitane and Sontarans. Things that exist outside of Doctor Who.


----------



## yardbird (May 8, 2010)

"Yours is bigger than mine"
"Let's not go there"


----------



## janeb (May 8, 2010)

Amazingly good, Although it did get a bit dennis Wheatley in the middle- not nec a bad thing - prob my favourite so far this series. Next weeks looks awesome


----------



## Balbi (May 8, 2010)

New Doctor is kicking into gear for the conclusion.

"The village that time forgot..." <--- that's a leg up to lots of the theorists


----------



## yardbird (May 8, 2010)

Good


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

another Galliferyan genocide  

whither now the vervoids?


----------



## Balbi (May 8, 2010)

Rory's speech to the Doctor was great work from the bloke playing him


----------



## Epona (May 8, 2010)

I thoroughly enjoyed that episode, a bit cheesy, but really enjoyable.  Next week looks really fantastic however.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2010)

Enjoyed that - started very well, lost it a little around 2/3 through then came back again towards the end.

Good performances again - liked Rory (though he reminds me a little in his character of Gwen's husband in Torchwood) and thought Helen McCory as the Countess was excellent.


----------



## gnoriac (May 8, 2010)

OK but didn't do a lot for me. I think it's like someone suggested about a previous episode way back in this thread, the problem is trying to cram too much into 45 minutes. If it had been built over say 4 episodes, giving it time to ratchet up the suspense, and not even revealing them to be fish-insect things until near the end, it'd have worked much better.

Agree next week's looks really good.


----------



## Epona (May 8, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> OK but didn't do a lot for me. I think it's like someone suggested about a previous episode way back in this thread, the problem is trying to cram too much into 45 minutes. If it had been built over say 4 episodes, giving it time to ratchet up the suspense, and not even revealing them to be fish-insect things until near the end, it'd have worked much better.
> 
> Agree next week's looks really good.


I miss the days of stories that ran for several episodes


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 8, 2010)

That was really, really enjoyable.


----------



## the button (May 8, 2010)

That "Off" switch was handy in the thing on the roof, wasn't it?


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 8, 2010)

I laughed at the switch


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Enjoyed that - started very well, lost it a little around 2/3 through then came back again towards the end.
> 
> Good performances again - liked Rory (though he reminds me a little in his character of Gwen's husband in Torchwood) and thought Helen McCory as the Countess was excellent.



I broadly agree with this. 

Matt Smith has proper grown on me now. I was wary of his acting (or as the poster somewhere above points out, the way his acting and the writing intersect), but I like some of the little flourishes he brings to the role. 

I'm still not entirely sure about Amy. I'll concede it's likely not the actor's fault, and the writing, but she just seems too over the top, too larger than life, and rather annoying. If I knew someone like her in real life I'd want to stamp on her face quite a bit. Yes yes, this isn't real life, but still. Isn't part of the companion's job to be our intermediary? That's how I've always seen it - they are where we meet the doctor's world.

Anyway, I'm intrigued about the silence, the cracks ... I can't help feeling a bit of deja vu though. The stars going out ... darkness is coming = the silence is coming.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Can't stand vampires, fuck off my media landscape you 80s throwbacks.



How are vampires 80s throwbacks? Unless you mean "State of Decay"?


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 8, 2010)

If I knew someone like Amy Pond I would want to do things to her as well


----------



## gnoriac (May 8, 2010)

Epona said:


> I miss the days of stories that ran for several episodes



With a cliff-hanger at the end of each.


----------



## yardbird (May 8, 2010)

mwgdrwg said:


> If I knew someone like Amy Pond I would want to do things to her as well



As in the theme song to True Blood.
Sorry, we were on vampires


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

yardbird said:


> As in the theme song to True Blood.
> Sorry, we were on vampires



If they were all like Bill Compton I'd like to be on vampires too


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

Ahem. As you were.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 8, 2010)

Why did they need to sink the city again? Could they not have just made off with their shiny new fish people and gone to live in a nice coral reef or something?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2010)

jer said:


> How are vampires 80s throwbacks? Unless you mean "State of Decay"?



Were you not around then? All that Anne Rice wankery, then continued with Buffy et al, and now coming into horrible unlife again after I had thought it staked. A genre appealing to utterly humourless self-absorbed teenagers is not something I support.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Were you not around then? All that Anne Rice wankery, then continued with Buffy et al, and now coming into horrible unlife again after I had thought it staked. A genre appealing to utterly humourless self-absorbed teenagers is not something I support.



Yes, I was around. I like vampires, I'm afraid. Buffy was full of humour and also around that time we had Ultraviolet with Bill Compton and Idris Elba 

Vampires - the legend has been with us for generations. There's even an Irish one that was said to have inspired Stoker.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Were you not around then? All that Anne Rice wankery, then continued with Buffy et al, and now coming into horrible unlife again after I had thought it staked. A genre appealing to utterly humourless self-absorbed teenagers is not something I support.



The Twilight twaddle is bullshit. True Blood, no, that's masterful.


----------



## big eejit (May 8, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why did they need to sink the city again? Could they not have just made off with their shiny new fish people and gone to live in a nice coral reef or something?



When I ask Mrs Eejit questions like that she gives me a disapproving look.


----------



## yardbird (May 8, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ahem. As you were.



I'm a straight guy, but......


----------



## Balbi (May 8, 2010)

Get that tossy vampire shitebag off this fucking thread


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

Get that tossy Balbi shitebag off this fucking thread


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

The doc is totally due another Trial. How many races has he condemned to death to save humanity now?


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Get that tossy Balbi shitebag off this fucking thread



^ this


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The doc is totally due another Trial. How many races has he condemned to death to save humanity now?



They do seem to make quite a bit of his moral trial each series though, don't they? Weight of the universe on his shoulders, and all that.

I'm surprised he hasn't gone more nutty than he is, tbh.


----------



## Balbi (May 8, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Get that tossy Balbi shitebag off this fucking thread





jer said:


> ^ this




Fuck off into the void


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

jer said:


> Yes, I was around. I like vampires, I'm afraid. Buffy was full of humour and also around that time we had Ultraviolet with Bill Compton and Idris Elba
> 
> Vampires - the legend has been with us for generations. There's even an Irish one that was said to have inspired Stoker.



a fragment of text (vampyr) is said to have come from the legendary write off Byron, Shelley and someone else had. Apparently the Frankenstien novel came out of that opium fuelled evening.


----------



## Epona (May 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Were you not around then? All that Anne Rice wankery, then continued with Buffy et al, and now coming into horrible unlife again after I had thought it staked. A genre appealing to utterly humourless self-absorbed teenagers is not something I support.



Anne Rice wrote Interview with the Vampire in the '70s you twazzock!  And Buffy was shit.  But vampires when done well are great.


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why did they need to sink the city again? Could they not have just made off with their shiny new fish people and gone to live in a nice coral reef or something?



no houses and chairs and shit in coral reefs.


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2010)

oh, and this thread descended into a BSG bore-athon earlier in the week.  I think one poster of Bill Compton is getting off lightly.


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2010)

did that remind anyone of The Fires of Pompeii?

mysterious sisterhood is being converted into aliens by an invading alien race whose homeworld has been lost. one of the new inductees to the sisterhood is the daughter of a guest character, with the sisterhood ruled by a high priestess. the companion gets kidnapped, until the doctor rescues her later. the aliens are harnessing the power of nature in an attempt to turn the human race into members of their own race, so the doctor has to switch off this highly technical 'nature controlling device' just in time, thus condemning the aliens to extinction.


----------



## Balbi (May 8, 2010)

He didn't have to kill everyone in Venice though, so nicer.

All these stories have got aliens in, rubbish


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2010)

they were both set in italy too


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

noticed the crack as Doctor banished the storm, up in the clouds


----------



## mrsfran (May 8, 2010)

Just the one Star Wars reference this episode, I think. The lightsabre-style thing.

Which he just happened to have with him in his jacket, btw. Does his jacket have Tardis-like proportions now too?


----------



## Balbi (May 8, 2010)

They knew they were after vampires, he packed.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

The docs pockets have always been notoriously full. Yo yo's, jelly babies, makeshift lightsabers.

Nice to see Pond moan about running around corridors as a nod to old who although moffat is seriously in danger of vanishing up a fanboi arse of his own making with all this knowing nod stuff.


----------



## Strumpet (May 8, 2010)

Loved that! I'm liking new doc now too. 



Vintage Paw said:


> If they were all like Bill Compton I'd like to be on vampires too



Ohgod ditto..


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 8, 2010)

Liked it when he popped the sweet into Amy's mouth. Mmm.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

will we be seeing a return to the days of multiple companions a la Davidson era?

I have to say I hope not. That shit gets you Turlough's and Adrics and shitty robot dogs


----------



## Santino (May 8, 2010)

I thought time-travelling Doc climbing up a power cable on a tower in a thunderstorm was a nod to Back to the Future.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> noticed the crack as Doctor banished the storm, up in the clouds



I totally missed that. To be fair I think I was multitasking at the time.


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> will we be seeing a return to the days of multiple companions a la Davidson era?
> 
> I have to say I hope not. That shit gets you Turlough's and Adrics and shitty robot dogs



we had rose and mickey for two or three episodes in a row, didn't we?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I totally missed that. To be fair I think I was multitasking at the time.



You must have spottd the silence ant the end though.

Personally I recon the Master and Rassilon have cracked the time lock a bit and are merrily fucking about in an attempt to get Simms more chicken wings and allow sundry actors to don those frankly hilarious Time Lord gowns that really should have been allowed to rest in the dustbin of history.


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2010)

And Captain Jack with Rose and Martha


----------



## Gromit (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> will we be seeing a return to the days of multiple companions a la Davidson era?
> 
> I have to say I hope not. That shit gets you Turlough's and Adrics and shitty robot dogs



 we getting another K9? Brill!


----------



## Strumpet (May 8, 2010)

Gromit said:


> we getting another K9? Brill!


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> You must have spottd the silence ant the end though.



Oh yeah, couldn't have missed that!

It's the biggest nod to it all so far - that the silence actually caught up with them in Venice. What does that mean?

Is that Venice completely silent now? The city was still there, the people were still there, so what does this 'silence' actually do, or mean? Does it just follow the doctor/Amy around? It doesn't appear so, since the weird fishy/insecty woman said her species was wiped out by it ... and as far as we know the doctor hasn't met her type before or been to her home planet. 

So that means the cracks following Amy and the doctor aren't really following them, it's just incidental that they seem to be wherever they are; or the doctor and Amy are somehow drawn to the cracks/silence and are following them about; or something else


----------



## T & P (May 8, 2010)

Can someone remind me how the language barrier is explained away in Dr. Who (i.e. how can they all understand each other)?


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

T & P said:


> Can someone remind me how the language barrier is explained away in Dr. Who (i.e. how can they all understand each other)?



Tardis does that. Acts as kinda intergalactic translator device.


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2010)

jer said:


> Tardis does that. Acts as kinda intergalactic translator device.



except the weird glyphs that turned up on that bloke's face in the devil episodes.  which is how we knew they were from beyond time and space.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2010)

Epona said:


> Anne Rice wrote Interview with the Vampire in the '70s you twazzock!



Anne Rice wrote several vampire sequels in the 80s. I remember the Vampire Wars, trying to ignore all the fucking teenage drivel. Apparently, that has failed.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 8, 2010)

madness?

THIS IS VENICE!!!!!!


----------



## T & P (May 8, 2010)

jer said:


> Tardis does that. Acts as kinda intergalactic translator device.



Ahh, I see... ta.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

I like how he can't fix the chameleon circuit but the ole translator never fails.

The master had better TARDIS's 

His weren't the equivalent of time traveling in a betterware box


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I like how he can't fix the chameleon circuit but the ole translator never fails.
> 
> The master had better TARDIS's
> 
> His weren't the equivalent of time traveling in a betterware box



I also like how he keeps the brakes on, which explains the wheezing, groaning sound.

We haven't seen the Master's Tardis for many a year, no?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

Keeper of Traken. Doric column. And I didn't google either :shame:

I think since then he has been without a TARDIS as his regenerations are used up so he has been body hopping and doesn't have the requisite time lord physiology to form the psychic link with a TARDIS


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Keeper of Traken. Doric column. And I didn't google either :shame:
> 
> I think since then he has been without a TARDIS as his regenerations are used up so he has been body hopping and doesn't have the requisite time lord physiology to form the psychic link with a TARDIS



And Logopolis, wasn't that a weird situation where his Tardis was in the Doctor's Tardis ad infinitum? And each Tardis interior got progressively darker?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2010)

That was a bizarre situation where both TARDIS occupied the same space, leading to convinient re use of lots of sets. Ages since I saw thet tbf. Pertwee?


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That was a bizarre situation where both TARDIS occupied the same space, leading to convinient re use of lots of sets. Ages since I saw thet tbf. Pertwee?



Naw, last Tom Baker. Very funereal vibe to it.

Christopher Bidmead ( I think) wrote it. A gifted, if sometimes inpenetrable, scribe.


----------



## Epona (May 8, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That was a bizarre situation where both TARDIS occupied the same space, leading to convinient re use of lots of sets. Ages since I saw thet tbf. Pertwee?



Tom Baker's last episode.  It was a good one.

ETA: Beaten to it!


----------



## fogbat (May 8, 2010)

Nice little reference to Casanova, too.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 8, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Nice little reference to Casanova, too.



And the William Hartnell library card


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Nice little reference to Casanova, too.



i thought that!


----------



## gnoriac (May 9, 2010)

jer said:


> And the William Hartnell library card



Pleasantly surprised - wonder why they did that?


----------



## Stigmata (May 9, 2010)

That was good, but next week's looks like a corker


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> Pleasantly surprised - wonder why they did that?



Either Moffat doing his nods or maybe, just maybe, ANOTHER FIVE DOCS STORY

In my fanwanktesies


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 9, 2010)

i think this was actually an improvement on the  last episode

it felt better..   matt smith  is  actually  feeling  kinda old doctorish   and  this  was  a good  historical romp...  the  only thing i would have changed  is i would  have  made them vampires... taken a break  from  the worn  alien refuges  plot  and  gone  for a  totaly earth based plot

if  the  next one  actually  pulls off  being a  being  a  thriller type  episode   ala  blink    then  i   will   happily   crown moffat   as   the king of new  who


----------



## strung out (May 9, 2010)

i think castrovalva was the last time we saw the master's tardis wasn't it?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 9, 2010)

jer said:


> And the William Hartnell library card



I liked that


----------



## fogbat (May 9, 2010)

Is there anyone apart from humans that the psychic paper actually _does_ work on?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 9, 2010)

Stupid Doctor again. Stares at the gizmo for an age before noticing off switch. Fails to think through how to rescue wossername (I can't remember, either) when all that would have been needed was a parasol. Why is Moffat writing the Doctor as such a fuckwit?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 9, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That was a bizarre situation where both TARDIS occupied the same space, leading to convinient re use of lots of sets. Ages since I saw thet tbf. Pertwee?



No Baker, just before he changed into Davidson.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 9, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i think castrovalva was the last time we saw the master's tardis wasn't it?



Is the master even in that?


----------



## strung out (May 9, 2010)

yes

"After his regeneration at the end of Logopolis, the Doctor is still weak, and his companions, Adric, Nyssa, and Tegan take him to his TARDIS. Adric, spotting a Corinthian column nearby, investigates only to realize too late that it is the Master's TARDIS, and is abducted. In the Doctor's TARDIS, the Doctor is delirious but asks to be taken to the "Zero Room" that contains Time Lord healing technology to allow him to recover."


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2010)

jer said:


> We haven't seen the Master's Tardis for many a year, no?


I remember it once being a very grand fireplace.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 9, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Nice little reference to Casanova, too.


That made me laugh.  The library card was a good touch, too.


----------



## Stigmata (May 9, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Is there anyone apart from humans that the psychic paper actually _does_ work on?



When else hasn't it worked? I remember it didn't fool Shakespeare but I can't think of any other times.

What was the deal with the chamberlain-type character? Did he just scarper in the end?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2010)

proper lol at the mum cuss bit


----------



## fogbat (May 9, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> When else hasn't it worked? I remember it didn't fool Shakespeare but I can't think of any other times.
> 
> What was the deal with the chamberlain-type character? Did he just scarper in the end?



I seem to vaguely remember a few times when people have gone "Pah, you're not fooling me with psychic paper etc", but could be wrong. Off the top of my head, the only other one I can remember is the staff at Torchwood 1, who'd had some sort of psychic training.


----------



## Doppelgänger (May 10, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i think castrovalva was the last time we saw the master's tardis wasn't it?



I think the last time it appeared, an inside shot at least, was the last episode of Trial of a Time Lord.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Stupid Doctor again. Stares at the gizmo for an age before noticing off switch. Fails to think through how to rescue wossername (I can't remember, either) when all that would have been needed was a parasol. Why is Moffat writing the Doctor as such a fuckwit?



Post regenerating fugue. Other Doctors have (as mentioned) required the Zero Room and all require time to settle in and get used to the new body. Regeneration is far from a seamless and easy process. See: Mawdryn Undead.


----------



## strung out (May 10, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> I think the last time it appeared, an inside shot at least, was the last episode of Trial of a Time Lord.



you could be right there actually. ages since i saw that one


----------



## belboid (May 10, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why did they need to sink the city again? Could they not have just made off with their shiny new fish people and gone to live in a nice coral reef or something?



given the choice between Venice and scavenging in the caves, what else you gonna do?


Started well, went off in the middle finished well that one (half a dozen females to service 10,000 fish blokes?  I can see the odd issue with that one)


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2010)

Episode got proper cussed in my house, except by me who enjoyed it.

The one jarring bit was where the Doc at one minute was anguished as chief fish lady jumped into the water then next scene he was all loopy-happy Doctor again. He was upset at his genocide for all of five minutes. Silly.


----------



## innit (May 10, 2010)

I liked it lots.  And he didn't do a genocide really - it was her choice.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2010)

he gave her no choice.


----------



## innit (May 10, 2010)

He was begging her not to!  He could have given her a lift to somewhere more suitable.  He didn't even kill the girls, that was the other fella.

eta not that I really care


----------



## belboid (May 10, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Episode got proper cussed in my house, except by me who enjoyed it.
> 
> The one jarring bit was where the Doc at one minute was anguished as chief fish lady jumped into the water then next scene he was all loopy-happy Doctor again. He was upset at his genocide for all of five minutes. Silly.



He didnt really do much to save her, either.  Creep along really slowly while ther is still time to do somethng, and then leap when it's too late.

And if they really want to survive, they can always shag their mom anyway


----------



## fogbat (May 10, 2010)

belboid said:


> He didnt really do much to save her, either.  Creep along really slowly while ther is still time to do somethng, and then leap when it's too late.
> 
> And if they really want to survive, they can always shag their mom anyway



I'm pretty confident that Francesco would have been well up for it.

How come he was able to come out of the water, unlike his bros?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2010)

Clearly the mature phase of the life cycle while those in the water were mindless piranhas awaiting maturation.

I am totally painting in the plot holes for Moffat


----------



## hektik (May 10, 2010)

there's some proper excitement on other forums about the crack appearing this week: some reckon it's the keyhole for the TARDIS: 






if so, that would be AWESOME. but of course, it's a pretty big IF..but it owuld explain the pretty weird piece of editing for the final scene.


----------



## belboid (May 10, 2010)

well yeah, has to be doesn't it?  Struck me as immediately obvious.

Which means it must be bollocks...

(hmm, and Amy was fiddling with the key earlier, in the WW2 one...)


----------



## fogbat (May 10, 2010)

hektik said:


> there's some proper excitement on other forums about the crack appearing this week: some reckon it's the keyhole for the TARDIS:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The shapes don't really match, though


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2010)

Does The Crack match the shape of the Tardis lock?


----------



## Augie March (May 10, 2010)

Have we established what Rory might be yet? That exchange with him and the Doctor where he knew about different dimensions seemed to be hinting that he had knowledge of things that perhaps he shouldn't have. 

There was definitely an arched eyebrow from the Doctor...


----------



## Cid (May 10, 2010)

It was in New Scientist.


----------



## janeb (May 10, 2010)

He said he'd looked it up after prisoner zero


----------



## Augie March (May 10, 2010)

He's up to something...


----------



## mrsfran (May 15, 2010)

All very Alice so far, complete with cheshire cat dream lord.


----------



## yardbird (May 15, 2010)

"I'm getting on a bit, don't let the cool gear fool you"


----------



## yardbird (May 15, 2010)

I'm just identifying the keyway *locksmith mode*


----------



## spanglechick (May 15, 2010)

"...the clothes designed by a first year fashion student..." fucking lol-apalooza.

also: love Moffatt's ongoing mission to make kids scared of stuff. After today kids everywhere will wet themselves in terror of OAPs... tis attack of the OAP zombies!


----------



## mrsfran (May 15, 2010)

This episode is like the libidinal unconscious of Last of the Summer Wine.


----------



## belboid (May 15, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> also: love Moffatt's ongoing mission to make kids scared of stuff. After today kids everywhere will wet themselves in terror of OAPs... tis attack of the OAP zombies!



but by Simon Nye!  One of the better episodes too so far


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 15, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> also: love Moffatt's ongoing mission to make kids scared of stuff. After today kids everywhere will wet themselves in terror of OAPs... tis attack of the OAP zombies!


_Or_, he's made them scared of falling asleep - parents across the nation will thank him for that one  

Liked that one, possibly my favourite so far. Rubbish baddies, but I'm a sucker for a puzzle, and a puzzlemaster


----------



## mrsfran (May 15, 2010)

Loving Amy. Love that she doesn't choose the doctor. Excellent, and such a relief after the last 3.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2010)

I was guessing that the Dream Lord was the Valeyard, and I don't think I was entirely wrong. Anyway, faultless.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 15, 2010)

missfran said:


> Loving Amy. Love that she doesn't choose the doctor. Excellent, and such a relief after the last 3.


 I actually thought she was a little weak in this episode - still had some good moments but certain bits fell a bit flat.

Maybe she was tired, being pregnant does that


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> I actually thought she was a little weak in this episode


 
Something of a relief. The Doctor worked out what was going on and blew up the Tardis. He knew all about psychic pollen and clocked the Dream Lord for an id. Meanwhile, Amy simpered, for all the world like Rose. 

Well, that's how it should be. Roles restored, after all the superAmy nonsense of the first couple of episodes.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 15, 2010)

Sorry, I meant the actress, Karen Gillan, rather than the character. Just thought her acting was a little below her usual standard.


----------



## belboid (May 15, 2010)

excellent, Confidential confirms it was Nye's idea to make old people the baddies.

And a great line from Karen - "I've got gigantic breasts made of lentils"


----------



## gnoriac (May 15, 2010)

Great stuff, love plots where you've no idea what's going on and liked the Dreamlord a lot, hope he gets used again at some point in the future.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2010)

So, Simon Nye was an excellent Who writer.

Perhaps Richard Curtis will surprise us with _Vincent and the Doctor_, in which the Doctor and Vincent Van Gogh battle a giant severed ear which finds itself trapped on Earth and wishes only to return to Auralia 5. I mean, surprise us by it not being shit. But any hope of this is slender.


----------



## Stigmata (May 15, 2010)

As far as i'm concerned they haven't put a foot wrong this season. Very good.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2010)

it's not a cunting season. it's a series.


----------



## Stigmata (May 15, 2010)

killer b said:


> it's not a cunting season. it's a series.



This whole series has taken place in Spring


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 15, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> This whole series has taken place in Spring


But it'll finish in Summer


----------



## Stigmata (May 15, 2010)

Well that's next season, who knows


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 15, 2010)

*blinks* That was actually really good. Also, last week's wasn't bad either.

I wish they'd stick to either being shit or being good. Choose, BBC, choose.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 15, 2010)

95% brilliant with a 5% wtf (in a dumb way) at the end to make us forget about it.

No doubt they'll come back to it.   And good on them...actually a bit edgy for DW imo.

Amy got the absolute best lines....'are you calling me a boat?'....'whack her!' and 'I was starting to like it' in particular.

Was anyone else hoping that the the universe where the boyfriend dies was the real one?   Annoying little prick.


----------



## spanglechick (May 16, 2010)

ok - there was a red braces/bowtie / blue braces/bowtie thing going on as he hopped between realities in this episode, and i remember thinking that in the second part of the blink storyline.

i know this seems like a standalone episode, unrelated to all the crack in time stuff but i'm not so sure.

(and yes, i am watching it again on iplayer)

edit = now i'm not too sure. maybe it was blue all along...

edit - ok.  red(brown) in real reality only. blue in false realities.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 16, 2010)

Urban's a false reality....you're going to have to be more specific.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I was guessing that the Dream Lord was the Valeyard, and I don't think I was entirely wrong. Anyway, faultless.



i wondered if it was  The Celestial Toymaker  at one point

but yeah  it pretty much was  an aspect of the valeyard

could be good   there was an intresting  doctor who book wich surmised  that  the doctor actually  killed himself   transitioning himself  between  colin and sly  to do  with combatting the valeyard

sly's doctor  sorta  embraced his darkside  a bit more  blowing up; skaro  and  using  ace almost as a chess piece

they certianly  expanded on it in the books     (which was one of the  few  good aspects  to them)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 16, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> As far as i'm concerned they haven't put a foot wrong this season. Very good.



SERIES. 
A series of episodes. 

Also, you seem to have low standards. I didn't see this weeks, maybe it's repeated today or something, but the others have been pretty weak.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2010)

next weeks   Silurian adventure  looks interesting   especially  as it's  a  two parter


let's hope  they don't  fuck it up too badly   (the new Silurian  look a bit plasticky)


----------



## Stigmata (May 16, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> SERIES.
> A series of episodes.
> 
> Also, you seem to have low standards. I didn't see this weeks, maybe it's repeated today or something, but the others have been pretty weak.



Brian Sewell's got low standards compred to you mate


----------



## DexterTCN (May 16, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Brian Sewell's got low standards compred to you mate


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2010)

Roundly mocked as a geek for spotting the silurians for next week, suspecting out loud that the baddie might be a reincarnation of the master, or the valeyard (the dangers of watching Who with non geeks). Didn't make the Celestial toymaker connection but halfway through that could have been plausible. The psychic pollen idea was blates stolen from Warren Ellis in Transmetropolitan


Anyway, a solid episode I thought. Not better than starship uk but better than the weeping angels 2 parter. I fucking recognise the Dreamlord ID bloke from something. Must IMDB


----------



## mrsfran (May 16, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Roundly mocked as a geek for spotting the silurians for next week, suspecting out loud that the baddie might be a reincarnation of the master, or the valeyard (the dangers of watching Who with non geeks). Didn't make the Celestial toymaker connection but halfway through that could have been plausible. The psychic pollen idea was blates stolen from Warren Ellis in Transmetropolitan
> 
> 
> Anyway, a solid episode I thought. Not better than starship uk but better than the weeping angels 2 parter. I fucking recognise the Dreamlord ID bloke from something. Must IMDB



City of Ember? That's where I knew him from.


----------



## Stigmata (May 16, 2010)

'Valeyard' was briefly a trending topic in Twitter last night.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2010)

Possibly. I have only seen half of CofE.

He was like a malevolent Ian Hislop


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> 'Valeyard' was briefly a trending topic in Twitter last night.



In a way it could almost have been. The valeyard was described in ToaTL as a 'possible' future incarnation of the doc iirc. What he might become.


----------



## cybertect (May 16, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> He was like a malevolent Ian Hislop





That's exactly what was going through my head.


----------



## mrsfran (May 16, 2010)

DotCommunist said:
			
		

> Possibly. I have only seen half of CofE.



I had to watch it 3 times, very slowly, for work.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The psychic pollen idea was blates stolen from Warren Ellis in Transmetropolitan



i think that was a bit of a weak explanation

random alien pollen that just happened to be sitting around?

i'd  have posibly  done it  as  a major fuckup of the tardis  telepathic  link  or  something    at least   keeping it  to something  we know is already there

plus it  could have  served  as an explanation to  DW noobs  about  why  they  can   hear and  see stuff in the language of their choice


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 16, 2010)

Matt Smith is utterly, utterly fantastic as the Doctor. I think he's basically playing himself, judging by interviews and suchlike, but he is so good at playing an eccentric 907-year-old alien. Just little throwaway gestures in every frame.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2010)

he is a bit more old school that  tennant  and i mean that in a good way

however  DT  did have a charm and enthusiasm  that  worked  really well  and coming  after  CE  he was a real change and a breath of fresh air ... i think MS  still hasn't quite got to the level where  you  can describe what kind of doctor he is...  hopefully  he  will long outlast amy  and  we will get to know him in his own right  rather than as a duo  (it's not that i hate amy  i  just feel the doctor  needs  more  of a  stand alone identity  and   recent series have  pushed him more to being  a duo  even he is firmly  the batman to the companions robin)


----------



## krtek a houby (May 16, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> next weeks   Silurian adventure  looks interesting   especially  as it's  a  two parter
> 
> 
> let's hope  they don't  fuck it up too badly   (the new Silurian  look a bit plasticky)



Got to be better than their last incarnation, mind...


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 17, 2010)

Enjoyed that - good comedy moments, liked the evil old people and laughed maliciously when the doctor pushed on off the roof ! Toby Jones, another good heavyweight thesp, was excellent as the Dream Lord.


----------



## Pingu (May 17, 2010)

i have to say this series is losing me

it just doenst feel like dr who iykwim

much as i hate to say it its his assistant... shes well hot but ...


----------



## fogbat (May 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Possibly. I have only seen half of CofE.
> 
> He was like a malevolent Ian Hislop



So Ian Hislop, then?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 17, 2010)

jer said:


> Got to be better than their last incarnation, mind...



they looked  shit  but at least it  was  intresting shit

these  new ones  just look   boring and rent a kit alien

and  they look more sea devily   though  that may be intentional as the sea devils  left more of an imprestion


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 17, 2010)

Pingu said:


> i have to say this series is losing me
> 
> it just doenst feel like dr who iykwim
> 
> much as i hate to say it its his assistant... shes well hot but ...



she plays to big a role

it's  like  i said  this show is doctor who    not  doctor who and amy/rose/donna


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2010)

bollocks, companions always have played big roles at some points the TARDIS was fucking heaving with assistants and thier subplots. Tegan and Nyssa and that prick Adric?


----------



## Pingu (May 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> bollocks, companions always have played big roles at some points the TARDIS was fucking heaving with assistants and thier subplots. Tegan and Nyssa and that prick Adric?


 
they always felt though like they were in the background. this one sometimes feels likes its the doctor who is the sidekick.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> bollocks, companions always have played big roles at some points the TARDIS was fucking heaving with assistants and thier subplots. Tegan and Nyssa and that prick Adric?



yes  but   because there were so many of them  each of their  roles  is more downplayed

the companion is always  less important  than the doctor    which is  why    it feels  wierd  than  amy  has  paractically got a bigger role than the doc


----------



## Gromit (May 17, 2010)

The narative of Dr Who changed way before Amy. All the way back to Chris Ecklescake.

With the orginal Dr Who it was all about the Dr and his adventure and saving the day.

Now its narrated from the point of view of the earthlings and how the Dr comes and changes their lives, whilst saving the day.

Its a better way of telling the story as you get to imagine you are the ordinary person whose life he makes exciting instead of imagining you are the Dr (which you couldn't possibly ever be).


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2010)

Pingu said:


> they always felt though like they were in the background. this one sometimes feels likes its the doctor who is the sidekick.





Shippou-Chan said:


> yes  but   because there were so many of them  each of their  roles  is more downplayed
> 
> the companion is always  less important  than the doctor    which is  why    it feels  wierd  than  amy  has  paractically got a bigger role than the doc



All good points, but outwieghed by this:




Spoiler: stuff


----------



## Santino (May 17, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> All good points, but outwieghed by this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Does the sonic screwdriver have an airbrush setting?


----------



## nicksonic (May 17, 2010)

having just watched that i would've said the dream lord was the black guardian.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 17, 2010)

Didn't he get destroyed at the end of _Enlightenment_?


----------



## nicksonic (May 17, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Didn't he get destroyed at the end of _Enlightenment_?



they left it open IIRC. i jolly well hope i _do_ recall correctly since i watched this recently.


----------



## fogbat (May 17, 2010)

Being totally and utterly destroyed is hardly an excuse not to return in Who, is it?


----------



## strung out (May 17, 2010)

wasn't it fairly clearly explained that the dream lord was just another aspect of the doctor's personality?

(notice the line about 'only one person hates me as much as you do')


----------



## Limejuice (May 17, 2010)

I was irritated by the lame set-dressing crap.

It was snowing in the playground. The trees were bare.

The Tardis landed in summer flowers. Roses falling from the cottage porch roof.

Geese were obviously paid for by the day.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2010)

Yeah it was a 'monster from the ID'


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 17, 2010)

Limejuice said:


> I was irritated by the lame set-dressing crap.
> 
> It was snowing in the playground. The trees were bare.
> 
> ...


Not to be all excusey, but _it was a dream_! 

The continuity officer probably took the week off - if anything was wrong they could just fall back on "it's a dream!"


----------



## nicksonic (May 17, 2010)

strung_out said:


> wasn't it fairly clearly explained that the dream lord was just another aspect of the doctor's personality?
> 
> (notice the line about 'only one person hates me as much as you do')



the valeyard is more likely then.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 17, 2010)

It's not going to be retconned as the Valeyard, Valentine Dyall or anything else. Self-contained story. While the story unfolded, these were plausible explanations, but psychic pollen does for them all.


----------



## nicksonic (May 17, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's not going to be retconned as the Valeyard, Valentine Dyall or anything else. Self-contained story. While the story unfolded, these were plausible explanations, but psychic pollen does for them all.



yes, after i posted i thought i should've said it may have had no connection to anything that'd gone before.


----------



## Stigmata (May 17, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Not to be all excusey, but _it was a dream_!
> 
> The continuity officer probably took the week off - if anything was wrong they could just fall back on "it's a dream!"



I liked the snow- it was probably a fluke that they happened to be filming in that weather but it added to the unreal feeling of the episode. And tied in with the cold star, as well.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 17, 2010)

Aye, I thought similar to be honest. Fluke or not, it was nice.


----------



## CNT36 (May 18, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's not going to be retconned as the Valeyard, Valentine Dyall or anything else. Self-contained story. While the story unfolded, these were plausible explanations, but psychic pollen does for them all.



It showed that the doctor had a darkside. I don't think its the valeyard yet but the potential is there.


----------



## The Master (May 18, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> It showed that the doctor had a darkside. I don't think its the valeyard yet but the potential is there.



yea i agree and its good that were reminded the doctor does have a darkside as we saw glimpses in the previous two doctors and Matt Smith doesnt look like he would hurt a fly so the "dark side" has be shown another way


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2010)

doesn't he?  He gets proper tetchy, far more than the last two at least.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 18, 2010)

He certainly kicked off at the end of starship UK


----------



## nicksonic (May 18, 2010)

he does, i'm really enjoying matt smith's incarnation.


----------



## The Octagon (May 18, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> All good points, but outwieghed by this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Anyone else tilt their head to the extreme right? 

You will cover my physio bills DotCom


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2010)

The Octagon said:


> Anyone else tilt their head to the extreme right?



why did you do that?  did you think you'd be able to see down her knickers?? _That's not how photographs work!!_


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Now its narrated from the point of view of the earthlings and how the Dr comes and changes their lives, whilst saving the day.
> 
> Its a better way of telling the story as you get to imagine you are the ordinary person whose life he makes exciting instead of imagining you are the Dr (which you couldn't possibly ever be).



i don't buy that...

the show always  had  companions   and  back then they were much more human 

by making the  companions special  your  reducing  the  amount you can  emphasise  with them ...


and besides   people  want to be the  thing  they can't be  

who ever dreamt of being adric    everyone wants  to be the doctor ...  back then  and  now too


----------



## Santino (May 18, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i don't buy that...
> 
> the show always  had  companions   and  back then they were much more human
> 
> ...



DotCommunist dreams of being Amy so he can spend all day wanking in front of a mirror. Much like he does now.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 18, 2010)

belboid said:


> why did you do that?  did you think you'd be able to see down her knickers?? _That's not how photographs work!!_


Because it looks like you can see her fanny if you do.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-%26-entertainment/doctor-who-fans-to-leave-their-houses-201005182741/



> Moffat also confirmed that new assistant Amy Pond, played by Karen Gillan, will not appear in the show because the budget would not cover the the construction of a 200ft wide, perspex anti-ejaculation screen.
> 
> He added: "We spoke to Karen about this and she pointed out that while her life plan included playing Doctor Who's assistant and having a successful career as a respected actress, it did not include being gawped at by misfits for two hours and ending up with a face like a plasterer's radio."


----------



## ginger_syn (May 19, 2010)

Limejuice said:


> I was irritated by the lame set-dressing crap.
> 
> It was snowing in the playground. The trees were bare.
> 
> ...



It looked more convincing than the christmas specials with the green leaved trees in the backround,always annoys me.


----------



## The Master (May 19, 2010)

yea but they could come back and say it was global warming, lol
its just things that they cannot control for when they are filming, if it was a blatant thingthen its understandable


----------



## gosub (May 19, 2010)

The Master said:


> yea but they could come back and say it was global warming, lol
> its just things that they cannot control for when they are filming, if it was a blatant thingthen its understandable





1) aren't you dead?
2) why are you defending Dr Who?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2010)

No, he is trapped in the time lock with Rassilon. BUT the whole business with the crack is about a crack in the time lock I reckon.


----------



## fogbat (May 19, 2010)

Which ties, wordwise, at least, into that closeup on the tardis's lock a couple of episodes back.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 20, 2010)

Interesting review of Amy's Choice on the Guardian site.



> Where most episodes stand up to repeated viewing, rewatching this week's instalment would be absolutely necessary. For the most part, it feels like a fun Shaun Of The Dead-style romp, all murderous pensioners and lashings of jolly innuendo. Then you get the sting in the tail and the more accurate reference is Fight Club – the revelation that the Dreamlord is actually the Doctor's own self-loathing seems obvious once it's revealed, but also creates the kind of "whoosh" moment that gives a story new gravitas. And the Dreamlord really is deliciously mean, calling him out on his every character flaw; his love of showing off, his clothes, the way he turns people into weapons (to quote Davros), the way he leaves people behind. It's pretty heavy stuff and, at the mid-season point, gives us the first instance of the character opening up and beginning to unravel. Then there's the merciless teasing of Rory … well, that says a lot for this increasingly tangled set of relationships.


----------



## The Master (May 21, 2010)

i enjoyed it better than i though, i prob need to see it again t see these 'Red Herrings'


----------



## matt m (May 21, 2010)

I'm not sure I like the onset of angst and self-flagellation creeping into Dr Who though. 

They did that with Christopher Ecclestone and it didn't really work.

I don't think Dr Who needs to be quite so self-obsessed and I've also never understood why they've often made him out to be so messianic – giving the supporting cast so many lines about how wonderful he is and how fanciable he is etc etc. They never did that in the old days.

Come to think of it, the David Tennant Dr Who was a bit like Tony Blair, back in the Things Can Only Get Better days, right at the start of his Presidency, I mean Prime Ministership.

I wonder if that makes Matt Smith the equivalent of Nick Clegg (with his evil Dream Lord coalition twin of Cameron staring back at him from the Tardis console).


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 21, 2010)

Three things for Doctor Who fans:



Doctor Who Live: The Monsters Are Coming - http://www.doctorwholive.com/ - "Actors from the TV series will not be appearing live on stage."
And a couple of things for kids (or families with kids) at the BFI Southbank:

Preview of "Vincent and the Doctor" - 2nd June - written by Richard Curtis
Doctor Who workshop - also 2nd June - Showcasing artwork, costumes and objects from previous episodes plus members of the Doctor Who team to demonstrate how the show is created


----------



## Helen Back (May 21, 2010)

Just realised: Amy's Choice was another "nobody died" episode.

So - 
Edge Of Destruction
The Three Doctors
Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
The Beast Below
Amy's Choice


----------



## Santino (May 21, 2010)

I saw the TARDIS the other day.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 21, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Just realised: Amy's Choice was another "nobody died" episode.
> 
> So -
> Edge Of Destruction
> ...


Postman.


----------



## Helen Back (May 21, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Postman.



Eh?


----------



## belboid (May 21, 2010)

I think he means the postman died.  For some reason he's ignoring all the dead kids!

And the fact that none of them died, cos it was a dream.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 21, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Just realised: Amy's Choice was another "nobody died" episode.
> 
> So -
> Edge Of Destruction
> ...



The children died - I mean we didn't see them be killed but we saw the piles of ash plus we saw someone else was vapoursied. Okay you could argue it wasn't in the 'real' world but they died within the dream world.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 21, 2010)

belboid said:


> I think he means the postman died.  For some reason he's ignoring all the dead kids!
> 
> And the fact that none of them died, cos it was a dream.





QueenOfGoths said:


> The children died - I mean we didn't see them be killed but we saw the piles of ash plus we saw someone else was vapoursied. Okay you could argue it wasn't in the 'real' world but they died within the dream world.


 Oh yeah, the kids. Meh, who cares about kids, there's loads more of 'em.

Not buying the 'dream' get-out clause, that's cheating.


----------



## Helen Back (May 21, 2010)

Nobody real died.


----------



## belboid (May 21, 2010)

Anyway, wasn't your point that they did the whole 'you're the Doctor, you save everyone' bit again?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 21, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Nobody real died.



Does it matter


----------



## Helen Back (May 21, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Does it matter



No, it's just an interesting point because as my list shows it's very rare in DW to have such an episode.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 21, 2010)

matt m said:


> I'm not sure I like the onset of angst and self-flagellation creeping into Dr Who though.
> 
> They did that with Christopher Ecclestone and it didn't really work.



I thought it was pretty well done, particularly when the doctor's evil alter ego turned on Amy.

Doctor who is always going to be forever rehashing the same old stuff anyway, the important thing is that it's entertaining (check) well written (check) and well acted (check). From a writing point of view I thought that episode was really impressive, probably trumping Moffat's efforts in this series so far.


----------



## strung out (May 21, 2010)

rory, the doctor and amy 'died' too, if you're going to get all pedantic about it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 21, 2010)

Oh bloody hell...

Alright, postie and the kids never died because they ever existed 

Stupid bloody show


----------



## ivebeenhigh (May 21, 2010)

Santino said:


> I saw the TARDIS the other day.



me too.  they have one on the way into the BBC.  I even had my photo taken with it.


----------



## Santino (May 21, 2010)

My dad had a car that was like the TARDIS. It looked small from the outside, and it could travel through time.


----------



## Gromit (May 21, 2010)

ivebeenhigh said:


> me too. they have one on the way into the BBC. I even had my photo taken with it.


 
I'm bored of seeing the tardis.

They leave it around random places in Cardiff all the time.

I assume for promotion purposes rather than because they cba'd moving it inbetween filming.


----------



## matt m (May 21, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> I thought it was pretty well done, particularly when the doctor's evil alter ego turned on Amy.
> 
> Doctor who is always going to be forever rehashing the same old stuff anyway, the important thing is that it's entertaining (check) well written (check) and well acted (check). From a writing point of view I thought that episode was really impressive, probably trumping Moffat's efforts in this series so far.



It wasn't the evil alter-ego type thing, so much as the rather self-important furrowed-brow dialogue. They're a bit too soap-opera, a bit emo. Is he gonna be the Emo doctor with the cast spouting learning-to-love-yourself self-help-book stock phrases?


----------



## nicksonic (May 21, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I'm bored of seeing the tardis.



i really don't think i'd get bored of seeing the tardis.


----------



## fen_boy (May 21, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I'm bored of seeing the tardis.
> 
> They leave it around random places in Cardiff all the time.
> 
> I assume for promotion purposes rather than because they cba'd moving it inbetween filming.



Are you sure they're not actual police telephone boxes?


----------



## Gromit (May 21, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Are you sure they're not actual police telephone boxes?


 
Maybe its the actual Doctor upon which the series is based.


----------



## Quartz (May 21, 2010)

I wonder if there'll be a reference to Paul Darrow / Captain Hawkins in this episode?


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 21, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Are you sure they're not actual police telephone boxes?



I've made this mistake before, IIRC they still have them in Scotland...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 22, 2010)

this reminds me of an old episode.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 22, 2010)

Must admit when I saw the new look Silurian first, I thought meh. But fair enough explanation: another branch of Silurians, that's why they look different and er, oddly attractive. All this talk of negotiations and issues over land reminded me of the Israel/Palestine conflict...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 22, 2010)

Santino said:


> My dad had a car that was like the TARDIS. It looked small from the outside, and it could travel through time.



I'm traveling though time as I type this. 
Forwards.


----------



## strung out (May 22, 2010)

i've got part two of the story on dvd...


----------



## weltweit (May 22, 2010)

Sprog was just watching Dr Who now ..


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm traveling though time as I type this.
> Forwards.



i don't think you'd rate this AS.

really not very good.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 22, 2010)

Very old style Who, that one. A bit plodding, but also some very scary scenes. Amy being pulled into the ground was  very well done.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

was it me or did the silurian have an eastern european accent? like, a really incisive reverse commentary on 'us' ?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 22, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Very old style Who, that one. A bit plodding, but also some very scary scenes. Amy being pulled into the ground was  very well done.



agreed.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Very old style Who, that one. A bit plodding, but also some very scary scenes. Amy being pulled into the ground was  very well done.



but it didn't really need to be 'plodding' though, did it?

i was cursing dotcom all week for revealing that this episode was silurian-based, but... it was the same old silurian story. with the dalek/cyberman 'world domination' second episode lead in.


----------



## strung out (May 22, 2010)

i liked it. as people above have said, it had the feeling very much an old dr who story, quite like a pertwee. looking forward to next week's episode (which i shall watch later this evening)


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i liked it. as people above have said, it had the feeling very much an old dr who story, quite like a pertwee. looking forward to next week's episode (which i shall watch later this evening)



name it or lame it?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 22, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> but it didn't really need to be 'plodding' though, did it?



No, it didn't.


----------



## strung out (May 22, 2010)




----------



## Dillinger4 (May 22, 2010)

I take back all those things I said about Doctor Who.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> I take back all those things I said about Doctor Who.



what were they then?


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 22, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> what were they then?



that it is fucking shit. 

it is OK.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> that it is fucking shit.
> 
> it is OK.



wait until the second episode afore ye rush to judgement!


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 22, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> wait until the second episode afore ye rush to judgement!



no


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> no



i'm sorry, but you MUST!



FFS.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2010)

strong start to a two parter. N ice to see amy showing off the pins again


----------



## rollinder (May 22, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> name it or lame it?



Doctor Who and The Silurians with added Inferno


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2010)

Seemed good to me. I was worried it was going too slowly and they were going to try to wrap it all up suddenly with a deus ex machina but I didn't realise it was a two-parter.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> strong start to a two parter. N ice to see amy showing off the pins again



i didn't think it was a 'strong start'. although once we'd reached 16 minutes and the doctor had said 'what? soniccing and entering?!'... well.

DC, thought of you when amy strutted out with those... shorts?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 22, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Seemed good to me. I was worried it was going too slowly and they were going to try to wrap it all up suddenly with a deus ex machina but I didn't realise it was a two-parter.



That's the genius of not saying 'part one' at the beginning.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (May 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> strong start to a two parter. N ice to see amy showing off the pins again



in shorts, restrained, trembling as  phallic object approached her...


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Seemed good to me. I was worried it was going too slowly and they were going to try to wrap it all up suddenly with a deus ex machina but I didn't realise it was a two-parter.



deux ex machhina?

wtf?


----------



## ivebeenhigh (May 22, 2010)

the doctor was talking of silence again, when trying to hear the drill in the mine.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the doctor was talking of silence again, when trying to hear the drill in the mine.



yes.

reason why i said that was because i'd only ever come across the phrase 'dxm' via FM.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the doctor was talking of silence again, when trying to hear the drill in the mine.



not you again


----------



## ivebeenhigh (May 22, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> not you again



er deux ex machina is a plot device to solve something in a supernatural, unexplained way.  nothing to do with silence.  or amy being in bondage.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2010)

I like the bit about him not using weapons rearing its head. Reminded me of the bit in a 7th Doc novel where he confronts a baddie by sticking his finger in the barrel of the gun and giving it 'you could shoot and I would lose my hand. But so would you'


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

ivebeenhigh said:


> er deux ex machina is a plot device to solve something in a supernatural, unexplained way.  nothing to do with silence.  or amy being in bondage.



yes, yes, yes...

the point was that i'd only learnt that from FM, after his quite wonderful exposition in series 28.

i'm <33 years old, mind.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> strong start to a two parter. N ice to see amy showing off the pins again



Very much. Good pacing, didn't feel rushed. 2 parters are far superior.


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I like the bit about him not using weapons rearing its head. Reminded me of the bit in a 7th Doc novel where he confronts a baddie by sticking his finger in the barrel of the gun and giving it 'you g=could shoot and I would lose my hand. But so would you'



_the 7th doctor novel_, wah wah wah


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

jer said:


> 2 parters are far superior.



yes!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2010)

if the Silurian menace is not tied in with the Silence and that crack I will eat my brightly coloured scarf


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> if the Silurian menace is not tied in with the Silence and that crack I will eat my brightly coloured scarf



what a disappointment.


----------



## Strumpet (May 22, 2010)

jer said:


> Must admit when I saw the new look Silurian first, I thought meh. But fair enough explanation: another branch of Silurians, that's why they look different and er, *oddly attractive*. All this talk of negotiations and issues over land reminded me of the Israel/Palestine conflict...


Yes I thought she wa a bit of a fox too! 



nicksonic said:


> was it me or did the silurian have an eastern european accent? like, a really incisive reverse commentary on 'us' ?


I thought the same nick. 



Dillinger4 said:


> it is OK.


I luv you again


----------



## strung out (May 22, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> That's the genius of not saying 'part one' at the beginning.



aye, for all the two and three part stories since the show restarted, they've had seperate titles for each episode.

interestingly, they did this when doctor who originally started up til about 1966 when they moved to having a single title for the story, each episode just being called episode 1, 2, 3 etc. for example, the very first story - an unearthly child - had four episodes called an unearthly child, the cave of skulls, the forest of fear and the firemaker.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 22, 2010)

Strumpet said:


> Yes I thought she wa a bit of a *fox* too!



Ina reptilian kinda way


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

jer said:


> Ina reptilian kinda way



V!


----------



## ivebeenhigh (May 22, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> was it me or did the silurian have an eastern european accent? like, a really incisive reverse commentary on 'us' ?



no she sounded scottish.  which might be a different political point, but probably isn't.


----------



## Strumpet (May 22, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> V!



OOoo I loved that


----------



## nicksonic (May 22, 2010)

Strumpet said:


> OOoo I loved that



yes, but are we same average age? 

roughly the same average age?


----------



## strung out (May 24, 2010)

i just saw the second part of the silurians story.

my only comment is 'omg' and 'wtf?!'... in a good way


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

You annoyingly well connected cock, give it to me via torrent or else I will slaughter a child.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 24, 2010)

it seems  too big

i want smaller scale  episodes

i don't want massive fighting against   changes in history... i want   th doctor  sometimes  just to care a bout one planet... one city  ...  one person ... the preview of  the net episode   made me worry...   i want there to be debate   i want sulirians  that are meek   i want ones  that  side  with the doctor  

and  i want   more fucking two or even three parters


----------



## strung out (May 24, 2010)

ghhhhh, want to say stuff, but i can't


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 24, 2010)

just  pm us it


or   go to wiki leaks

who carse  about global consipricies   we  want spoilers


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

Don't tease ffs PM me


----------



## AverageJoe (May 24, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i just saw the second part of the silurians story.
> 
> my only comment is 'omg' and 'wtf?!'... in a good way



Go and wind them up on Digital Spy....


----------



## The Master (May 24, 2010)

i watched Part 1 last night (been away) and i liked it because it seemed small scale with a little welsh town and all that and then they underground.
i can see that these Homo-Reptiles are just asking to get destroyed, stright away i hope they gonna get it and will not care that they are gone.


----------



## Santino (May 24, 2010)

I wonder if the crack in time or whatever will be used to explain away all previous inconsistencies in Doctor Who canon. If it makes things un-happen it would explain why humans never remember alien invasions and giant cybermen an' shit.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 24, 2010)

I enjoyed it...apart from Meera Syal, she isn't a very good actress and was miscast I felt .

Mr. QofG's liked it when Amy was strapped down!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2010)

I enjoyed it.  What are the nerds saying?  Has anyone used Latin yet?


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

Santino said:


> I wonder if the crack in time or whatever will be used to explain away all previous inconsistencies in Doctor Who canon. If it makes things un-happen it would explain why humans never remember alien invasions and giant cybermen an' shit.



I don't remember giant cybermen; when was this?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

The nerds (me) are saying that the Silurians are back, which is odd because they shouldn't have an entire city underground- even the doc was suprised at that. The timelock, which contains the timeline which ends in the great dalek/gallifrey war must be breached. Cracked. The monsters of Who past are coming back. Monsters that you would have thought contained in the locked timeline.

Hence the crack imagery. The silence, I think, is that leaking timeline dominating the existing one and wiping it out one planet at a time.

Oh and Amy Pond is still hot.


----------



## fogbat (May 24, 2010)

jer said:


> I don't remember giant cybermen; when was this?



It was in one of the David Tennant specials, with the other guy who thought he was the Doctor. Giant steampunk Cyberman lurching about over London.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

fogbat said:


> It was in one of the David Tennant specials, with the other guy who thought he was the Doctor. Giant steampunk Cyberman lurching about over London.



I think I have to watch that one again - how the hell can I not remember that?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The nerds (me) are saying that the Silurians are back, which is odd because they shouldn't have an entire city underground- even the doc was suprised at that. The timelock, which contains the timeline which ends in the great dalek/gallifrey war must be breached. Cracked. The monsters of Who past are coming back. Monsters that you would have thought contained in the locked timeline.
> 
> Hence the crack imagery. The silence, I think, is that leaking timeline dominating the existing one and wiping it out one planet at a time.
> 
> Oh and Amy Pond is still hot.


I vaguely remember them from my childhood. It was Pertwee era, right?  I only remember that they were a) homo reptilians, b) were previous inhabitants of Earth.  I think a nuclear reactor woke them up.


----------



## strung out (May 24, 2010)

yeah, and then the brigadier nuked them


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

The pertwee era one was the Sea Devils, a bit like the silurians but they live in water. Oh just checked, yes pertwee did encounter the silurians as well as the Sea Devils. I forget my pertee a lot as he was stuck on Earth (boring) and had that cunting yellow car. Really his era is only worth it for how he sparks up against Delgado's Master.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The pertwee era one was the Sea Devils, a bit like the silurians but they live in water. Oh just checked, yes pertwee did encounter the silurians as well as the Sea Devils. I forget my pertee a lot as he was stuck on Earth (boring) and had that cunting yellow car. *Really his era is only worth it for how he sparks up against Delgado's Master*.



Plus "The Green Death" and "Planet of the Spiders" - I blame the latter for my fear of anything arachnid


----------



## Spion (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh and Amy Pond is still hot.


I've taken a sudden interest in watching Dr Who for some reason. 

Also, I like Matt Smith as the Dr. Makes me realise what a wanker Tennant was


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The pertwee era one was the Sea Devils, a bit like the silurians but they live in water. Oh just checked, yes pertwee did encounter the silurians as well as the Sea Devils. I forget my pertee a lot as he was stuck on Earth (boring) and had that cunting yellow car. Really his era is only worth it for how he sparks up against Delgado's Master.


Yeah, I remember the Sea Devils.  I liked Pertwee.  He was great.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 24, 2010)

I wonder if it's the doc who's fallen through the crack?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I forget my pertee a lot as he was stuck on Earth (boring)


I prefer Earth stories - especially historical ones - to space ones.  I'd like to see a lot more of those; why have a Time Machine otherwise?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

I prefer the future episodes, although I do enjoy the historical ones. If they are done well. But that little speech in starship UK describing the child who is crying silently and extrapolating that to 'we are in a police state' was where I really accepted Matt as the Doctor. As yet his run has not thrown up a historical one to match that story. Still, early days.


----------



## Santino (May 24, 2010)

Perhaps they're running out of easily identifiable historical characters/settings. 

We were reminded about Elizabeth I so perhaps we'll meet her one day.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

Santino said:


> Perhaps they're running out of easily identifiable historical characters/settings.
> 
> We were reminded about Elizabeth I so perhaps we'll meet her one day.



I want to see them go back to the 80s and try and change Thatcher's mind about the miners but instead she sends in the Daleks...


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 24, 2010)

Santino said:


> Perhaps they're running out of easily identifiable historical characters/settings.



There's another one to come this series


----------



## Santino (May 24, 2010)

They could do another Roman one and meet the Emperor Claudius, for bonus geek points.


----------



## killer b (May 24, 2010)

enjoyed it this weekend - the quality of the writing on the new series has been all over the place, but one thing i can say for sure now: matt smith is the best doctor of the new era. i think he's brilliant.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

I'd like to see another Battlefield style Arthurian one where it was heavily suggested that in the alternate timeline the Doc one day becomes Merlin.

That storyline was mint.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd like to see another Battlefield style Arthurian one where it was heavily suggested that in the alternate timeline the Doc one day becomes Merlin.
> 
> That storyline was mint.



That was around the time they started making him out to be some kind of omniscient type being, wasn't it?

I thought they would have moved away from all that but this messianic, all powerful aura seems to be increasing, of late.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

That is one reading of it, a post-gallifreyan sense of responsibility and a show of his darker sides is another. What I liked about mcoy is that beyond the question mark brolly and whimsy he showed more elements of darkness. Matt Smith seems to be a return to Baker style madness and TBF it is about time, the return of a doctor as madcap as he is heroic is great. Also, amy pond is the most fiesty companion since Ace. Peri-Peri Sauce was good as well but Billie Piper always seemed a bit lame to me. And Agyman just cannot act.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That is one reading of it, a post-gallifreyan sense of responsibility and a show of his darker sides is another. What I liked about mcoy is that beyond the question mark brolly and whimsy he showed more elements of darkness. Matt Smith seems to be a return to Baker style madness and TBF it is about time, the return of a doctor as madcap as he is heroic is great. Also, amy pond is the most fiesty companion since Ace. Peri-Peri Sauce was good as well but Billie Piper always seemed a bit lame to me. And Agyman just cannot act.



Interesting points, I reckon if I'd been knocking around for 900 plus years, with most of my people dead or lost etc - I'd be a bit weirded out. Maybe even having delusions of grandeur 

Amy is a bit brilliant, isn't she?


----------



## killer b (May 24, 2010)

karen gillan comes across as something of a dimwit in dr who confidential. think i'm going to stop watching it...


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

killer b said:


> karen gillan comes across as something of a dimwit in dr who confidential. think i'm going to stop watching it...



Don't watch it myself, not into knowing all the secrets and so forth...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

killer b said:


> karen gillan comes across as something of a dimwit in dr who confidential. think i'm going to stop watching it...



It's the downtime bits. Breaks in filming, time to chill for five and that. No wonder she seems a little flighty. Admittedly I may just be excusing her whimsy and giggliness because I fancy her so much. (I'm having an A3 poster of her in the coppers uniform done later in the week ).

I like her as a foil to Matts doctor, she comes over as a companion who can show up his flawed parts by simple human intervention. Also, I never knew soft inverness scots accents could be so..... engaging. In my head all scots women accents were 'morag from Glasgow' harsh.

Amy pond. We salute you.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It's the downtime bits. Breaks in filming, time to chill for five and that. No wonder she seems a little flighty. Admittedly I may just be excusing her whimsy and giggliness because I fancy her so much. (I'm having an A3 poster of her in the coppers uniform done later in the week ).
> 
> I like her as a foil to Matts doctor, she comes over as a companion who can show up his flawed parts by simple human intervention. Also, I never knew soft inverness scots accents could be so..... engaging. In my head all scots women accents were 'morag from Glasgow' harsh.
> 
> Amy pond. We salute you.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2010)

jer said:


> Don't watch it myself, not into knowing all the secrets and so forth...


I don't, either. "Making Of" stuff is not my thing.


----------



## innit (May 24, 2010)

killer b said:


> karen gillan comes across as something of a dimwit in dr who confidential. think i'm going to stop watching it...



she does seem to struggle with the compulsory bigging up of the show, Moffat etc - don't think she seems like a dimwit though.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't, either. "Making Of" stuff is not my thing.



I like confidential- It is nicely interesting (to me).

I also think it a good thing for younger viewers of sub 11 age. They get to see that the monster is all smoke and mirrors and don't end up crapping the bed.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I like confidential- It is nicely interesting (to me).
> 
> I also think it a good thing for younger viewers of sub 11 age. They get to see that the monster is all smoke and mirrors and don't end up crapping the bed.



But it spoils the magic... and the terror grows in your mind. In my childhood, I was terrified by the creatures in Ark in Space and the krynoid and other beasties and then you watch the repeats & think; mmm - bit ropey now. 

Not that I advocate having your kids terrorised, of course.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I like confidential- It is nicely interesting (to me).


That's cool; I wasn't proposing it be banned!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2010)

jer said:


> But it spoils the magic... and the terror grows in your mind. In my childhood, I was terrified by the creatures in *Ark in Space *and the krynoid and other beasties and then you watch the repeats & think; mmm - bit ropey now.
> 
> Not that I advocate having your kids terrorised, of course.



The Wyrrn. In Trial of a Time Lord the doc gets held up for the genocide of the Vervoids but his murder of the Wyrrn goes unmentioned 

I think over 12 YO's can handle it but I know the Daleks and others put the fear into more sensitive 8 YO kids. I myself had nightmares over the Michael Jackson video Thriller till I saw the making of and my child brain was comforted by the realisation that it was all just pretend. Maybe let them watch it the day after so you do get at least one night of child-fear to mock  not that I would ever troll a child like Moffat does


----------



## strung out (May 24, 2010)

i just found a picture of my brother with the doctor and amy...


----------



## fogbat (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Admittedly I may just be excusing her whimsy and giggliness because I fancy her so much. (I'm having an A3 poster of her in the coppers uniform done later in the week ).



Have you considered getting the image printed on a giant pillow?


----------



## nicksonic (May 24, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Have you considered getting the image printed on a giant pillow?





cool pic strung_out.


----------



## fogbat (May 24, 2010)

I bet Matt Smith drinks in the Hawley Arms.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The Wyrrn. In Trial of a Time Lord the doc gets held up for the genocide of the Vervoids but his murder of the Wyrrn goes unmentioned



Vervoids were rubbish. Mind you, I was increasingly feeling awkward at that age; I was only watching it then, out of loyalty.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 24, 2010)

These new Silurians are fail. Nothing like the old ones.  That said, I did like all the Pertwee-era refs in the story. Huge drilling project! Silurians! Small village! Welshmen! Church! Energy barrier!

ETA: Vervoids looked alarmingly sexual.


----------



## andy2002 (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Peri-Peri Sauce was good as well but Billie Piper always seemed a bit lame to me. And Agyman just cannot act.



I liked Piper in the first series with Eccleston as her 'surrogate dad' but they went and ruined it with the silly overblown romance stuff with Tennant from series two onwards. Piper ended up like some mad stalker towards the end there. Agyeman was treated pretty badly I think - never really given the chance or time on the series to be anything other than the woman who came after Billie. Not a particularly good actress either, as you so rightly say.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 24, 2010)

andy2002 said:


> I liked Piper in the first series with Eccleston as her 'surrogate dad' but they went and ruined it with the silly overblown romance stuff with Tennant from series two onwards.


Eccleston's Doctor was clearly going through a mid-life crisis, trying to hook up with the teenage blonde. She turns him down, he goes and gets a facelift...


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> *These new Silurians are fail. Nothing like the old ones.*  That said, I did like all the Pertwee-era refs in the story. Huge drilling project! Silurians! Small village! Welshmen! Church! Energy barrier!
> 
> ETA: Vervoids looked alarmingly sexual.



They're a branch of the Silurian/Homo Reptilian/Eocene family, so that's why they look different.

I always remember the Vervoids as looking like cabbage heads or cauliflowers


----------



## nicksonic (May 24, 2010)

the vervoids were a plant based race, i watched 'terror of the vervoids' not long ago and thought it held its own.


----------



## Stigmata (May 24, 2010)

I had two problems with this episode. Meera Syal is someone I quite like in other things but she failed to convince here. And the other thing: why did they go to all that hassle fortifying the church, setting up cameras etc when they could all have gone and waited it out in the TARDIS?

Best line had to be Rory's "That is _rubbish_" when he found out the screwdriver didn't work on wood.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 24, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I had two problems with this episode. Meera Syal is someone I quite like in other things but she failed to convince here. And the other thing: why did they go to all that hassle fortifying the church, setting up cameras etc when they could all have gone and waited it out in the TARDIS?
> 
> Best line had to be Rory's "That is _rubbish_" when he found out the screwdriver didn't work on wood.


The Tardis is always underused.  I'm not sure why.  Maybe the writers think it's too easy.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (May 24, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I like confidential- It is nicely interesting (to me).
> 
> I also think it a good thing for younger viewers of sub 11 age. They get to see that the monster is all smoke and mirrors and don't end up crapping the bed.



My just six year old would say: "It's NOT scary Dad" at this stage.

Although looking at his face when it's one I'm not so sure...


----------



## janeb (May 24, 2010)

My 6 year old nephew loves it but my sister won't let him watch it any more, he was so scared after the first weeping angel story this series he wouldn't sleep for 3 nights in his own bed!  Bless him


----------



## DexterTCN (May 24, 2010)

So he didn't get to see them defeated?


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 24, 2010)

One thing I've noticed about this series is that it seems much scarier and playing on simple fears more than the RTD series.

e2a: I know I'm not alone in noticing that.


----------



## Quartz (May 24, 2010)

I really don't like Matt Smith's histrionics. They cause an immediate switch-over. Or fast-forward.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 24, 2010)

Quartz said:


> I really don't like Matt Smith's histrionics. They cause an immediate switch-over. Or fast-forward.



I've got used to him and started to think he's doing a good job, was expecting much worse.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 24, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> One thing I've noticed about this series is that it seems much scarier and playing on simple fears more than the RTD series.
> 
> e2a: I know I'm not alone in noticing that.



You are completely alone, in the dark... it's silence apart from a strange hissing and shuffling sound wooooooo


----------



## strung out (May 24, 2010)

i wouldn't say i'm surprised by matt smith being so good, but i'm happy he's proved a lot of people's (possibly justifiable) doubts wrong


----------



## janeb (May 25, 2010)

DexterTCN said:


> So he didn't get to see them defeated?



No, he was told it had all ended happily but not allowed to watch. When I spoke to him about it he was fine with that, he liked dr who but it made him cry so he agrees he shouldn't watch it 'til he's older


----------



## janeb (May 25, 2010)

Quartz said:


> I really don't like Matt Smith's histrionics. They cause an immediate switch-over. Or fast-forward.



I love the way he's playing the dr, my favourite since baker and very troughton'esque. He plays him with old eyes and a heavy heart, but not in the way DT did, which I also really liked but he did get a bit mopey by the end. I think the way he switches between curious, fun, serious and cold is very timelord and especially effective .


----------



## AverageJoe (May 25, 2010)

And the hands.

He's got the hand thing going on, and its very good.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 25, 2010)

janeb said:


> I think the way he switches between curious, fun, serious and cold is very timelord and especially effective .



He's convincingly alien, and that's a good thing. In the most recent episode, his expression when he realises he's just plain forgotten about the young boy is wonderful. Mind you, watching interviews with Matt Smith - the man himself is a bit _other_. To a lesser extent, so is Karen Gillan, and the pair of them seem to have ridiculous chemistry together. The casting people were probably high-fiving and dancing down the street when that pair turned up.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2010)

Northampton School for Boys: turning out weirdo's since 1611


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 25, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Northampton School for Boys: turning out weirdo's since 1611



 The best my old school can manage is Alan Hansen. Turning out robotic dullards since 1969.


----------



## belboid (May 25, 2010)

I'm longing for the return of The Master.  Then my old schoolmate can take on Dottys


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

jer said:


> They're a branch of the Silurian/Homo Reptilian/Eocene family, so that's why they look different.



















One of these things does not look like the others. "Different branch of the species" doesn't cut it...


----------



## nicksonic (May 25, 2010)

indeed, far too human to fit in with what's gone before.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2010)

They have to be humanised in order for us to feel the Doctors pain as he wipes out yet another species on next saturday.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

jer said:


> I always remember the Vervoids as looking like cabbage heads or cauliflowers







It's a Freudian nightmare. Not as bad as Alpha Centauri, though.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> They have to be humanised in order for us to feel the Doctors pain as he wipes out yet another species on next saturday.


I've seen next week's episode.


Spoiler: next week's Who episode



They sit around a conference table and talk at each other, like the fucking Star Trek aliens they resemble.


----------



## nicksonic (May 25, 2010)

oh dear, the spoiler code doesn't seem to work in the new post email notifications


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 25, 2010)

Yeah keep this spoiler free completely please. Fuck ups are bound to happen,


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

mwgdrwg said:


> Yeah keep this spoiler free completely please. Fuck ups are bound to happen,


Sorry!


----------



## Santino (May 25, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Sorry!



I hope someone wipes YOUR species out.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> I've seen next week's episode.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: next week's Who episode
> ...



Don't you see promo's with the last 10 mins cut off? maybe the doc gets bored and goes 'fuck this' and pwns on the silurians


----------



## strung out (May 25, 2010)

the promos i've got don't have the credits or trailers for next episodes, but as far as i know, they're complete apart from that. of course, you can't actually know for sure until the episode gets aired. might be different for the big stories of course, not 100% on that


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Don't you see promo's with the last 10 mins cut off? maybe the doc gets bored and goes 'fuck this' and pwns on the silurians


No, the preview discs are usually full episodes, minus the odd little thing (Rose's cameo in season 4, ep1 was cut, for instance). The only time they're heavily cut is when there's a big "To Be Continued" - they chopped the Daleks off the end of Army of Ghosts, and the Doctor's fake regeneration off of The Stolen Earth (though anyone with half a brain could work out what the cliffhangers were in both cases).

ETA: oh yeah, the credits music is sometimes missing (or altered - season 5 ep1 had the old David Tennant title sequence), and we don't get the Next Time trailers.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> I hope someone wipes YOUR species out.


Then I'll have to be all mopey like David Tennant.


----------



## The Master (May 25, 2010)

one thing i noticed was the magma pools in their civilisation, just disturb that and start a cave in or eruption and they'll go swimming in Magma and the doctor quickly gets the heck out of there


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

Anyone ever read this spin-off novel from the 1990s? Set in an alternate universe where the Silurians killed the Jon Pertwee Doctor in their first TV appearance. It was


----------



## strung out (May 25, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Anyone ever read this spin-off novel from the 1990s? Set in an alternate universe where the Silurians killed the Jon Pertwee Doctor in their first TV appearance. It was



maybe about 10 years ago. i was talking about it with my dad last night, i've got it on my bookshelf so may give it another go.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2010)

http://www.drwhoguide.com/whona19p.htm

intro looks good. Amazon! Amazon!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Anyone ever read this spin-off novel from the 1990s? Set in an alternate universe where the Silurians killed the Jon Pertwee Doctor in their first TV appearance. It was



yeah i have it....   forbidden planet   were  flogging  new adventures for  1.50  each  when the beeb  took back the rights   so i  got   like 40 of em

they are very mixed in quality...  the missing adventures  tended to be good  but i only have 5 or so of them



ohhh   the new adventure   where   they   do    a   take on doctor meeting   the culture (ian banks)  was  good


----------



## krtek a houby (May 25, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> He's convincingly alien, and that's a good thing. In the most recent episode, his expression when he realises he's just plain forgotten about the young boy is wonderful. Mind you, watching interviews with Matt Smith - the man himself is a bit _other_. To a lesser extent, so is Karen Gillan, and the pair of them seem to have ridiculous chemistry together. The casting people were probably high-fiving and dancing down the street when that pair turned up.



^ this


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> ohhh   the new adventure   where   they   do    a   take on doctor meeting   the culture (ian banks)  was  good


Yeah, that was a good 'un.






Any of the ones by Paul Cornell, Ben Aaronovitch, Lance Parkin, Lawrence Miles and Kate Orman are well worth a read.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 25, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> One of these things does not look like the others. "Different branch of the species" doesn't cut it...




Oh yeah?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2010)

I think Cornell did Head Games, the Land of Fiction one.


I would love to get hold of the culture/who mash up one.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Yeah, that was a good 'un.
> 
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Zvz_WbcwJ9k/S8Uo96QzWwI/AAAAAAAAA1A/WtBkUdPbCp8/s1600/The_Also_People.jpg
> 
> Any of the ones by Paul Cornell, Ben Aaronovitch, Lance Parkin, Lawrence Miles and Kate Orman are well worth a read.



unfortunately  my copy has fallen apart... cheap  fucking glue  on some of them

*tries to remeber ones he liked*

ohh the  sherlock holmes   crossover was good 
http://www.drwhoguide.com/who_na27.htm


----------



## fogbat (May 25, 2010)

Doctor Who vs Batman is good if you can find it.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

oh i should check if i've got a copy of human nature... just to compare to the  tv version


----------



## BoxRoom (May 25, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> oh i should check if i've got a copy of human nature... just to compare to the  tv version



Can get a PDF copy here if you ain't got it. Got some other gooduns there an' all.

http://www.feedbooks.com/book/2934


----------



## strung out (May 25, 2010)

seeing as we've started talking about the books, i should show off the rather embarrassing (or cool, depending on which way you look at it) collection of doctor who books i've got in my bedroom. it includes every single target novelisation of the original series, every single one of the virgin missing adventures, all of the virgin new adventures (we didn't bother getting the ones with just bernice in), and assorted other books including _Who Killed Kennedy_ (the doctor assassinates the president) and _The Pescatons_ (novelisation of a 1976 LP record)
















i'm hoping that someone's got an even more geeky collection than that


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2010)

CTR your bookshelf is getting proper annexed by me.


----------



## nicksonic (May 25, 2010)

i have all the target novels based on the original series, so cannot compete


----------



## fogbat (May 25, 2010)

Awesome bookshelves


----------



## strung out (May 25, 2010)

the entire collection was amassed well before my family had any connections to the doctor who mafia, so i can't even blame it on that


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

my  collection is  about   60-70% of that

 tohugh i do   have  Damaged Goods     which  should have warned  me  about    RTD .. it's  shit   really really  shit


----------



## krtek a houby (May 25, 2010)

@strung out

Around the mid 80s I got rid of my Target novelisations, reckon I had 100 or so. Dr Who Weekly/Monthly, I also sold on.

In the meantime I lost my red Dalek I got in 1970s but I still have my Mighty TV Comic Dr Who special & my cassette of State of Decay,


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> oh i should check if i've got a copy of human nature... just to compare to the  tv version


They've put a few of the New Adventures and Missing Adventures online for free on the BBC website - The Dying Days is highly recommended.


----------



## strung out (May 25, 2010)

i'm trying to think of other geeky stuff me or my family own. my dad got doctor who weekly (as it was called then) right from the very first issue, for my then 3 year old brother. my brother now has every single issue of doctor who magazine ever produced, although the early copies are a little bit defaced by crayon etc


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

i thought about trying lungbarrow... but somehow  i can't    bring myself to  

also  at one point i did  read  a lot of  8th doctor  books ....   but  somehow  i really  didn't  connect to him   in the same way i did with the 7th

there weree  still a few high lights though


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> my  collection is  about   60-70% of that
> 
> tohugh i do   have  Damaged Goods     which  should have warned  me  about    RTD .. it's  shit   really really  shit


Fool, Damaged Goods is fucking brilliant. That closing epilogue that wraps up all the various story threads is genuinely chilling.

But you're right in that it does pre-empt a lot of the stuff from the new series; there's a teenager whose surname is Tyler who lives in a high-rise council flat with her mum, the Doctor's companion is an omnisexual cop from the future, it's grounded in a much more real-world setting than other Who novels, it's rammed with references to pop culture and TV of the period. And the narrative kinda falls to pieces in the end, with a Great Big Visual Spectacle of a space monster destroying Manchester. Also note: the Gallifreyan N-Form ends up being taken over and piloted by an emotionally-damaged woman, just like the Cyber King - and Miss Pendragon and the Behemoth computer in Dark Season. Something of a recurrent theme in Davies' work...

Oh, and there's a streak of darkness a mile wide. Though that tended to be buried under the fluffy surface trappings in the new series - people think that the episode with the Master is camp 'cause he dances to the Scissor Sisters, overlooking the fact that the story is about _the last of humanity going insane, travelling back in time and murdering their ancestors "because it's fun"_. And the Doctor doesn't actually resolve that plot thread, either; humanity will still turn into the Toclafane in the future.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

i'll admit  though  it's  been a long  time since i read it (jesus about a  decade)  but  i really  felt   put out  by  the ending  though i can't really remember why   and   the "real life" stuff   felt  like  they   had  crashed an episode of eastenders  into the  side  of   a doctor who episode  (although  not  in a  dimentions in time  way)

i think i just  really   feel   that i don't  like  it  when it  rries to be   "real"  with "real people"  for me it  just grates


----------



## strung out (May 25, 2010)

i was chatting to dad the other day about the new adventures. i've not read all of them, though he has and he said it got to the point where some of them seemed to be entirely written for the benefit of one joke. for example the one where for some reason paul mcartney is performing on stage but (i think) is actually an alien imposter or something. all for the benefit of the brigadier being able to say "chap with wings, five rounds rapid"  (you need to be familiar with _The Dæmons_ to get that one)


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

isn't it  3 rounds?   ETA... no  just  my mind  playing tricks


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

i found   the new  adventures  sorta   went a little  mad    and  were  too busy  trying to  create  a new  dark sexy  universe  that it lost saome of  the   atmosphere of who


that's  why i quite  liked   the missing  adventures...  they   kinda  felt  more  who-ish


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i found   the new  adventures  sorta   went a little  mad    and  were  too busy  trying to  create  a new  dark sexy  universe  that it lost saome of  the   atmosphere of who
> 
> 
> that's  why i quite  liked   the missing  adventures...  they   kinda  felt  more  who-ish


The interesting thing is, though, that the 90s and noughties Who novels really underpin the new series - perhaps moreso than the old TV show does. The novels introduced character-based storytelling (and characters who were more than just ciphers) to Who, and the new show picked that up and ran with it. By his own admission, Russell T Davies was a big fan of the books (indeed, there's a photo of him kicking around with his collection of New Adventures in the background) and the new show is informed by the developments introduced in the novels.

Indeed, some of the new episodes have lifted storylines wholesale from the books - The Christmas Invasion, for instance, has bone-masked villains who control people using voodoo and blood samples and a storyline in which a probe to Mars is intercepted by aliens, used as the pretext for an alien invasion in which a big spaceship hangs over London, and the Doctor is out of commission for much of the story, before making a big set-piece comeback towards the end.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

i always  wondered  how  much of  the  books  made it into  the  new series  ...  i  kinda stopped reading  8th doctor books   as i felt  less and less into them.... pluss  around  2000  is  when i really ramped up my anime intake


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i'm hoping that someone's got an even more geeky collection than that


I don't have a complete collection of Targets (only got a few, tbh), but I've got complete runs of the Virgin New and Missing Adventures, the Bernice NAs (none of the Big Finish stuff though), and the BBC Eighth Doctor/Past Doctor stories. Oh, and the Telos novellas. And all the new series spin-off books, though most of them aren't on a par with the best of the Virgin/BBC novels.


----------



## strung out (May 25, 2010)

i think we've got a few of the bbc novels, though not all of them. my bro gets a load of freebies but tbh, i'm not even sure he bothers keeping (or even reading) most of them anymore


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

strung_out said:


> i think we've got a few of the bbc novels, though not all of them. my bro gets a load of freebies but tbh, i'm not even sure he bothers keeping (or even reading) most of them anymore


I keep plugging away at them in the hope they'll get good. Lance Parkin's one was excellent, as was Gareth Roberts'. And Justin Richards is pretty good when he has the bit between his teeth (The Burning, for instance) - it's such a shame that the stuff he's done for the Ninth and Tenth Doctors isn't on a par with his better work.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 25, 2010)

Anyway, this thread is rapidly plunging into nerdvana. Let's talk about the telly series, shall we?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 25, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Anyway, this thread is rapidly plunging into nerdvana. Let's talk about the telly series, shall we?


Please!

(Lol at 'nerdvana', btw).


----------



## kyser_soze (May 25, 2010)

So, we've missed about 5 eps cos of holidays. Worth watching, or is it all gone shit?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 25, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> So, we've missed about 5 eps cos of holidays. Worth watching, or is it all gone shit?



Worth it.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 25, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> So, we've missed about 5 eps cos of holidays. Worth watching, or is it all gone shit?


Not shit at all.  Watch them.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 25, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> So, we've missed about 5 eps cos of holidays. Worth watching, or is it all gone shit?



It's improved, for sure. It's always worth watching anyway. If even only to pick holes (or cracks) in it


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

my  shelf   of  nerddom


----------



## Captain Hurrah (May 25, 2010)

My nerdy interests are slightly different, but could post up a similar pic.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 25, 2010)

that is just my DW shelf.....  i have  many shelves of nerddom

in fact untill recently  these  shelves were full of  DW  VHS 
http://ithinkihavethatmanga.com/forum/images/upload/Shippy.DISPLAYAREA.jpg

but   now  all  my DW videos  are  consigned to a  box   and  my   models  reign supreme


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 26, 2010)

The new silurians look shit - the original ones look far more scary with their wierd nose things and third eye. The new one just look 'human with reptile skin'. 

and the sea devils were even more disurtbing -  the bit in the 1972 story where they emerge from the sea is burned into my memory - an absolute classic who sequence. 


Quite enjoyed the episode all the same. The moffat who is more scary and far less stupid than RTD. 

Agree about matt smith being great as well. 

And is it me or does the camera shamelessly linger all over karen gillians bod? Or is that just me?


----------



## CNT36 (May 26, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> my  shelf   of  nerddom



Please put them in the right order and take another photo.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 26, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> Please put them in the right order and take another photo.


Publication or narrative order? 

One of my fave Who books is Lance Parkin's The Infinity Doctors - the Doctor in it could be a younger version of the Hartnell Doctor, or an older version of the McGann Doctor, and the author won't tell anyone which it's meant to be. Which drives the fans mental 'cause they don't know where to put it on their shelves.


----------



## strung out (May 26, 2010)

we've got all our missing adventures books in publication order. no arguing about that


----------



## elevendayempire (May 26, 2010)

strung_out said:


> we've got all our missing adventures books in publication order. no arguing about that


When I was a teenager, I tried putting mine in narrative order like a proper mental geek, then gave up on that. Now they're piled up in boxes in the parents' attic.


----------



## CNT36 (May 26, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Publication or narrative order?
> 
> One of my fave Who books is Lance Parkin's The Infinity Doctors - the Doctor in it could be a younger version of the Hartnell Doctor, or an older version of the McGann Doctor, and the author won't tell anyone which it's meant to be. Which drives the fans mental 'cause they don't know where to put it on their shelves.



Publication. I'm a reasonable kind of guy.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 26, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> Please put them in the right order and take another photo.



no... because  then all the gaps  would be more obvious


actually  they were  all in publication order untill  they   got  debunked  to  a shelf of  lesser importance   due to my ever expanding manga collection


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2010)

Cold Blood tonight. Will re-watch hungry earth later to get reacquainted with the plot details as I am invariably slightly refreshed by 6-7 on a saturday.

Eyes peeled for cracks people.


----------



## Santino (May 29, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Eyes peeled for cracks people.



Is Amy wearing a thong in this one?


----------



## strung out (May 29, 2010)

just to reiterate, this episode is utterly fantastic (imo) so if you can, make sure you watch it!

cracking end to the episode


----------



## Leafster (May 29, 2010)

strung_out said:


> just to reiterate, this episode is utterly fantastic (imo) so if you can, make sure you watch it!
> 
> *crack*ing end to the episode


Is that a clue?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2010)

if strung out doesn't reply it is The Silence catching him up


----------



## AverageJoe (May 29, 2010)

Very positive review here.

Spoilers in it btw.....


http://www.beehivecity.com/television/preview-doctor-who-cold-blood17400909/


----------



## strung out (May 29, 2010)

Leafster said:


> Is that a clue?



it wasn't intended as a clue, but i did realise that's how it might look after i wrote it. take it however you like


----------



## strung out (May 29, 2010)

and yeah, massive spoilers in that link up there, so don't read it if you don't want to know what happens!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2010)

I have to say I like the titles this series. Brit sci fi writers seem to be able to reign in the US tendency to apologise for sci fi writing to themselves by giving episodes mad poncy titles often referencing Classical mythology etc.


----------



## strung out (May 29, 2010)

my favourite ever sci-fi title for an episode was ds9's _In the Pale Moonlight_, which is a line from the joker in the original batman film - "have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?"


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 29, 2010)

Loved that. Absolutely loved that. A prime slice of pertwee era dropped into 2010. And the series arc omfg


----------



## Matt S (May 29, 2010)

That was unexpected. And wicked.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 29, 2010)

Excellent episode - intelligent, moving, very good.


----------



## zoooo (May 29, 2010)

Loved the ending.


----------



## janeb (May 29, 2010)

Was proper shocked by that ending, I cried!

Excellent episode


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 29, 2010)

Great episode.


----------



## editor (May 29, 2010)

Yep - that was proper grown up writing.


----------



## rollinder (May 29, 2010)

^ yeah - this

completely hadn't expected it to get that good, that well written and complicated

poor Rory


----------



## gnoriac (May 29, 2010)

Best performance by Matt Smith as the Doctor yet IMO. Can they say "squeaky bum time" on prime time BBC?


----------



## Badgers (May 29, 2010)

Just stuck this on


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2010)

Lovely stuff. I still rate starship UK as the best but this was good Who.


----------



## Santino (May 29, 2010)

I totally called that he had a TARDIS fragment. Called in my head, you understand.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 29, 2010)

Good up until the last bit. I'm sorry, but leave the "forgetting everything ever" device out if it's going to be used in this casual fashion. In past series it's been actually quite affecting, but this is just exploiting and ruining it, like, er, the device of Angels being exploited and ruined....


----------



## emanymton (May 29, 2010)

Was it just me or did the Doctors comment that maybe the human race should be ready to share the planet seem like another reference to all the things that have been forgotten, like the daleck's moving the earth


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 29, 2010)

Just you.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 29, 2010)

very nice

still think i could  be a little  longer    but  not bad at all

i'm guessing that rory's ring  will be used as a focus  for remember ence at some point  gioving  the lingering shots on it


----------



## gnoriac (May 30, 2010)

With both humans and Silurians, it was the females who were into the murdering and the males all reasonableness... anyone care to speculate as to why?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 30, 2010)

it was a caste/gene system tbf


----------



## Ozric (May 30, 2010)

Tardis fragment for me means Tardis breaking moment followed by it all coming back together.
Basically it's the build up to end of series show....don't worry it'll work out right in the end.


NB   Pretty sure Rory will come back aswell.


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2010)

Ozric said:


> NB   Pretty sure Rory will come back aswell.





Spoiler



But not as Rory


----------



## Ozric (May 30, 2010)

!!!!!!Shock!!!!!!


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2010)

I think I've worked out the story arc, but even though I might be wrong, I wont post it.


So, actually, I dont know why I posted this


----------



## Ozric (May 30, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> I think I've worked out the story arc, but even though I might be wrong, I wont post it.
> 
> 
> So, actually, I dont know why I posted this


I'm get emotionally evolved in the story....didn't think it would happen but it is...if your gonna post please be spot on.....or so not spot on


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2010)

Ozric said:


> I'm get emotionally evolved in the story....didn't think it would happen but it is...if your gonna post please be spot on.....or so not spot on



I'll put it in white, so if you dont want to read it.....dont. But like I say, its just a guess....

I reckon the crack in time is the TARDIS itself. Somehow, somewhere the TARDIS has been destroyed. Its a living organism in itself,(remember back to when Rose became part TARDIS - same kind of tendrils that got Rory) and its trying to put itself back together. Its trying to rebuild itself but it needs help. So its following the Dr to try and get him to help. And the crack gets larger each time it manages to find a piece of itself. But it still need the Dr to put it back together and complete it. Now it has Rory, but still needs all the other bits that it doesnt have - Amy, Dr etc.

Actually that sounds shit now I've written it down


----------



## Ozric (May 30, 2010)

Kind of like Bad Wolf......man I have a De Ja Vu


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2010)

Ozric said:


> Kind of like Bad Wolf......man I have a De Ja Vu



No. In Bad Wolf, Rose became a weapon via the TARDISdidnt she? The TARDIS itself wasnt as what I wrote up there


----------



## TAE (May 30, 2010)

rollinder said:


> poor Rory


Who?


----------



## killer b (May 30, 2010)

enjoyed that well enough, allthough the constant 'be the best of humanity' nonsense is starting to wear thin. piss off doc, you condescending fuck.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 30, 2010)

be reasonable, given the amount of genocide he has committed to save the human race I think he gets to call it on that front. At least we are not getting that 'I'm the Doctor!' stuff anyway


----------



## 8ball (May 30, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> With both humans and Silurians, it was the females who were into the murdering and the males all reasonableness... anyone care to speculate as to why?



Just the usual thing of thinking all species are going to be like humans on most of the important points.


----------



## 8ball (May 30, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> be reasonable, given the amount of genocide he has committed to save the human race I think he gets to call it on that front.



Given the amount of genocide he's committed he can hardly fucking talk!


----------



## Stigmata (May 30, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> With both humans and Silurians, it was the females who were into the murdering and the males all reasonableness... anyone care to speculate as to why?



Except for, you know, Amy and Nasreen negotiating an abortive repto-primate utopia

PS I saw Katy Manning in Shoreditch yesterday. Resisted the urge to say anything vulgar.


----------



## TAE (May 30, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> With both humans and Silurians, it was the females who were into the murdering and the males all reasonableness... anyone care to speculate as to why?



It makes a nice change to the usual 'men are murderers and women are sensible' perhaps ?

Also, what Stigmata just said.


----------



## rollinder (May 30, 2010)

rollinder said:


> poor Rory





TAE said:


> Who?





you bastard


----------



## Augie March (May 30, 2010)

Ah well, that was a cracking 2 part episode indeed. I thought the first part was a bit slow and plodding, but in context it fitted nicely with the second part. 

Yes, it was perhaps predictable at times (apart from the ending that is) but the story was written with an intelligence that delivered the emotional punches when needed.

And looks like I was wrong about Rory. He was alright it seems.


----------



## magneze (May 30, 2010)

This really was one of my favourite stories of the past few series. The whole series is really good - the story arc about the crack all the way through really keeps it going.


----------



## gamma globulins (May 30, 2010)

Apart from the crack bit, which if I can say felt a bit like a direction from on high, I really didn't think that was all that good.

Partly plodding, half the cast were unconvincing (esp Syal) with clunkier than usual dialogue, and the holes in the plot bigger than average. It just failed to engage me like it usually does.

/controversial


----------



## strung out (May 30, 2010)

TAKE THAT BACK!!!!


----------



## gamma globulins (May 30, 2010)

Oh, and the losing the kid bit, that was a plus. But it should have been a bigger point and had more emotional impact than it did.

He should have put Alea in the tardis in all fairness.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 31, 2010)

gamma globulins said:


> Apart from the crack bit, which if I can say felt a bit like a direction from on high, I really didn't think that was all that good.
> 
> Partly plodding, half the cast were unconvincing (esp Syal) with clunkier than usual dialogue, and the holes in the plot bigger than average. It just failed to engage me like it usually does.
> 
> /controversial



!


----------



## gamma globulins (May 31, 2010)

I've read they had editing issues, 15 mins of Amy-Rory dialogue got cut, which explains why the two hardly spoke in the episode - that might have made the death a bit more meaningful.


----------



## Helen Back (May 31, 2010)

I've just finished watching ALL the classic Who including the reconstructions of the wiped episodes so they're all now reasonably fresh in my mind (it's taken me about a year). Phew! 

I'm now just mopping up watching/listening to the commentary tracks of the last few.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2010)

Good to see my old school in Confidential. Christ those kids look like wankers in them blazers. I must have looked a wanker. No wonder the other kids in the town called us poofs.

Anyway, that pulling out of the Tardis fragment skews my theory a bit-maybe it isn't the time lock but the explosion of the Tardis resonating back through time. Unless that is how the time lock is breached, by ramming the Tardis into the lock


----------



## Stigmata (May 31, 2010)

As it's supposed to happen on Amy's wedding day, I reckon it might be some attempt to bring back Rory that sets it all off.

Also re plot holes: if you have the TARDIS it's not as though Syal and the Welsh guy are going to have to stay trapped underground is it?


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2010)

if they try bringing back rory from the crack, remember he still got shot and died in the real world. you'd just be bringing back a corpse.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 31, 2010)

I'm beginning to tire of the over use of the sonic screwdriver. They should do what they did in the Peter Davison era and get rid of it. Gets him out of too many tricky situations.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 31, 2010)

I think The Doctor's new catchphrase should be "Physics!". As in:

"Doctor, how did you do that?"
"Physics!"

"Doctor, what on earth just happened?"
"Physics!"

"Doctor, why don't you use your sonic screwdriver for this one?"
"Fuck off, physics!"

Educational, inspirational, bound to catch on in the playgrounds


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 31, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> "Doctor, why don't you use your sonic screwdriver for this one?"


 
Can you imagine any possible context in which that could ever be said, though?


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 31, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Can you imagine any possible context in which that could ever be said, though?


Something terrible is about to happen, very possibly involving mild peril.

Job's a good'un.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2010)

strung_out said:


> if they try bringing back rory from the crack, remember he still got shot and died in the real world. you'd just be bringing back a corpse.



yes  but  they fucking shot  and  then  cremated the master  and all that did was bleach his hair


----------



## krtek a houby (May 31, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Something terrible is about to happen, very possibly involving mild peril.
> 
> Job's a good'un.



Hmm. I wonder is it the Black Guardian? He's due a turn...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> yes  but  they fucking shot  and  then  cremated the master  and all that did was bleach his hair



The Master is a Time Lord and an ex member of the Deca, the most brilliant and brightest of the Time Lords. Rory, human hospital porter, might not have quite the same tenacity when it comes to clinging to life.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 31, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The Master is a Time Lord and an ex member of the Deca, the most brilliant and brightest of the Time Lords. Rory, human hospital porter, might not have quite the same tenacity when it comes to clinging to life.


----------



## gamma globulins (May 31, 2010)

ZOMG unless he's actually THE RANI!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2010)

They should bring her back. I've said it before but I'd like some of the c-lister baddies to come back. Enough Daleks, Autons etc. What about some Justice Machines or the Wyrrn?


----------



## krtek a houby (May 31, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> They should bring her back. I've said it before but I'd like some of the c-lister baddies to come back. Enough Daleks, Autons etc. What about some Justice Machines or the Wyrrn?



Or Magnus Greel?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2010)




----------



## gamma globulins (May 31, 2010)

Or Adric as a crotchety drunken pensioner.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 31, 2010)

jer said:


> I'm beginning to tire of the over use of the sonic screwdriver. They should do what they did in the Peter Davison era and get rid of it. Gets him out of too many tricky situations.



I feel the same, but i doubt they'll get rid of it now.


----------



## gamma globulins (May 31, 2010)

He could do with it getting broken at the beginning of a two parter though.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 31, 2010)

And then using "physics!" to save the day


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 1, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> As it's supposed to happen on Amy's wedding day, I reckon it might be some attempt to bring back Rory that sets it all off.
> 
> Also re plot holes: if you have the TARDIS it's not as though Syal and the Welsh guy are going to have to stay trapped underground is it?



Actually disregard, I watched it again and understood the situation better.

As for the screwdriver, it's pretty clear that some writers like to use it more than others. And in that episode it offered a nice explanation as to why the humans of the future generally stick with conventional firearms rather than fancy electronic death rays.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 1, 2010)

gamma globulins said:


> Or Adric as a crotchety drunken pensioner.


they'd have to go back and scrape him off some dinosaur corpses first


----------



## rollinder (Jun 2, 2010)

strung_out said:


> if they try bringing back rory from the crack, remember he still got shot and died in the real world. you'd just be bringing back a corpse.



well it worked for Owen in Torchwood...kind-of...for a bit....


----------



## fogbat (Jun 2, 2010)

There was another bit on Saturday's episode where Rory seemed strangely knowledgeable about high-tech stuff. I doubt we've seen the last of him.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 2, 2010)

rollinder said:


> well it worked for Owen in Torchwood...kind-of...for a bit....



Well thanks for reminding me of that fucking terrible storyline


----------



## The Master (Jun 2, 2010)

oh yea that wasnt the best, lol
it can't be the last of rory and im sure they will be able to bring him back somehow


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 2, 2010)

the way  the light came and took him  it deffo looked like  a carrying off  rather than an erasing


----------



## TAE (Jun 2, 2010)

So ... the girl cannot remember the daleks because of the crack, the crack erases things from history, the doctor cannot remember the girl's blokey because of the crack.

Now ... why can the doctor remember the daleks?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2010)

TAE said:


> So ... the girl cannot remember the daleks because of the crack, the crack erases things from history, the doctor cannot remember the girl's blokey because of the crack.
> 
> Now ... why can the doctor remember the daleks?


I'm not sure if your first premise, "the girl cannot remember the daleks because of the crack", is wholly accurate. Have we definitely decided that's why she can't remember them, or just theorised


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2010)

TAE said:


> So ... the girl cannot remember the daleks because of the crack, the crack erases things from history, the doctor cannot remember the girl's blokey because of the crack.
> 
> Now ... why can the doctor remember the daleks?



the doctor can remember the girl's bloke


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 2, 2010)

TAE said:


> So ... the girl cannot remember the daleks because of the crack, the crack erases things from history, the doctor cannot remember the girl's blokey because of the crack.
> 
> Now ... why can the doctor remember the daleks?



The Doctor does remember Rory.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2010)

jer said:


> The Doctor does remember Rory.


Who?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2010)

Does he? Why doesn't he just tell Amy about him then 

This bloody programme  And it's for _kids_?!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 2, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Does he? Why doesn't he just tell Amy about him then
> 
> This bloody programme  And it's for _kids_?!



But he does, he tries to get her remember him, remember?


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Does he? Why doesn't he just tell Amy about him then



because amy would just go 'who?'


----------



## Iguana (Jun 2, 2010)

TAE said:


> So ... the girl cannot remember the daleks because of the crack, the crack erases things from history, the doctor cannot remember the girl's blokey because of the crack.
> 
> Now ... why can the doctor remember the daleks?



The Doctor does remember Rory.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2010)

jer said:


> But he does, he tries to get her remember him, remember?


While it was happening, but then once he'd finally been erased they both acted like nothing had happened. The Doc seemed concerned or something when Amy waved to just herself, but it wasn't clear that it was because he remembered Rory.

Not to me anyway


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 2, 2010)

strung_out said:


> because amy would just go 'who?'



No, she'd go "Doctor?"


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2010)

strung_out said:


> because amy would just go 'who?'


And then he would explain...?


----------



## fogbat (Jun 2, 2010)

jer said:


> But he does, he tries to get her remember him, remember?



And when he's forgotten, he compassionately leaves her to it, because he's nice like that. But remains saddened and worried himself.

The whole "_You're a timetraveller now, so you'll remember those things that are lost, oh, except this time, because you're personally involved_" rule is a bit crap, though.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 2, 2010)

strung_out said:


> because amy would just go 'who?'



and it would be incredibly distressing.  at least this way she's happy.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> and it would be incredibly distressing.  at least this way she's happy.


 Except that while Rory was being erased the Doctor was frantically trying to get Amy to hold on to the memory of Rory. Bit of a quick change of heart otherwise?


----------



## Iguana (Jun 2, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> While it was happening, but then once he'd finally been erased they both acted like nothing had happened. The Doc seemed concerned or something when Amy waved to just herself, but it wasn't clear that it was because he remembered Rory.
> 
> Not to me anyway



He was upset that Amy didn't remember and had to play along with her as what good would it have done to tell her all about her fiance who just died but she has no memory of.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 2, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Except that while Rory was being erased the Doctor was frantically trying to get Amy to hold on to the memory of Rory. Bit of a quick change of heart otherwise?



While she had a chance of remembering him, it was worth attempting. Now he's forgotten, why upset her?


----------



## innit (Jun 2, 2010)

Iguana said:


> He was upset that Amy didn't remember and had to play along with her as what good would it have done to tell her all about her fiance who just died but she has no memory of.



Where do you get that from?

It just looked like they both forgot him.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 2, 2010)

innit said:


> Where do you get that from?
> 
> It just looked like they both forgot him.



Only Amy forgot. The Doctor remembers. Bloody hell, he was able to stick his hand in the crack and pull something out...


----------



## Iguana (Jun 2, 2010)

innit said:


> Where do you get that from?
> 
> It just looked like they both forgot him.



From the completely obvious way it was played in the episode.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2010)

Iguana said:


> He was upset that Amy didn't remember and had to play along with her as what good would it have done to tell her all about her fiance who just died but she has no memory of.





fogbat said:


> While she had a chance of remembering him, it was worth attempting. Now he's forgotten, why upset her?


Because she's living a lie  



Iguana said:


> From the completely obvious way it was played in the episode.


I have been known to miss the bleedin' obvious, from time to time


----------



## innit (Jun 2, 2010)

don't buy it.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 2, 2010)

innit said:


> don't buy it.



Fiver says you're wrong


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2010)

i bet a tenner


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2010)

He remembers. He's a time lord. Also an expression of sadness passed over his face at the end when amy forgot


----------



## innit (Jun 2, 2010)

I reserve further comment until I have finished watching Confidential which, so far, is boring me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2010)

Check out my old school though. Nice eh?


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 2, 2010)

of course he remembers.


----------



## Augie March (Jun 2, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The whole "_You're a timetraveller now, so you'll remember those things that are lost, oh, except this time, because you're personally involved_" rule is a bit crap, though.



Yup. 

When a weeping angel decides to set up home inside your head and threatens to exit via your eyeballs killing you in a most unpleasant way, it's not considered all that personally involving.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 2, 2010)

He remembers because Rory isn't from his timeline. He doesn't remind her because what would be the point? Although it's hypocritical given how he reacted when Amy did something vaguely similar to him in the Beast Below.

It's not been established why Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, but there's been no suggestion that it's related to the cracks. Plus some of the Daleks escaped and presumably remembered what had happened as well.


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2010)

At the end of the ep...

Amy: You're very quiet...

<doctor looks at her with a mixture of pity, regret and sadness>

<Other Amy appears on ridge>

Amy: Hello me!

<doctor continues with meaningful look>

Doctor: Are you ok?

Amy <hint of sorrow>: I thought I saw someone else there...

<doctor's meaningful look does not subside>

Amy <brightens>: I need a holiday etc




i mean come on, of course he remebers, wouldn't be more obvious if they scrolled the words 'he remembers' across the screen.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> He remembers because Rory isn't from his timeline. He doesn't remind her because what would be the point? Although it's hypocritical given how he reacted when Amy did something vaguely similar to him in the Beast Below.
> 
> It's not been established why Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, but there's been no suggestion that it's related to the cracks. Plus some of the Daleks escaped and presumably remembered what had happened as well.



The daleks are all experienced time travellers as well so they remembered obv


----------



## Augie March (Jun 2, 2010)

What happens to these cracks when the TARDIS buggers off? Do they continue to get bigger, feeding off whatever is nearby? 

Because if at the end of the last episode, Restac's body got eaten by the time-crack then surely that would mean that most of  the events of that episode, never actually happened.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The daleks are all experienced time travellers as well so they remembered obv



Aye but the other Daleks were presumably all from the same timeline, same as Amy and Rory.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 3, 2010)

The first of the free adventure games is now available. They're canon apparently.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/theadventuregames


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2010)

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/05/13_classic_doctor_who_monsters_and_villains_due_a.php


13 classic monsters due a comeback. I'd forgotten all about the Nimons!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/05/13_classic_doctor_who_monsters_and_villains_due_a.php
> 
> 
> 13 classic monsters due a comeback. I'd forgotten all about the Nimons!



fuck yeh, zygons and sutekh!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The whole "_You're a timetraveller now, so you'll remember those things that are lost, oh, except this time, because you're personally involved_" rule is a bit crap, though.



Yeah that had me cussing at the screen. 

It's magic not science. He may look like he's from Hogwarts but let's do physics not spells please.


----------



## fieryjack (Jun 3, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> fuck yeh, zygons and sutekh!






			
				article said:
			
		

> Although the Doctor was ultimately able to break free and trap Sutekh in a time tunnel, it's hard to believe this powerful being would not find a way to eventually escape


except Sutekh didn't escape, as he died. A shame, always my equal favourite with Morbius and the Cybermen. They shouldn't have put so many fx on Woolf's voice in the New Who episodes


----------



## Quartz (Jun 3, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> 13 classic monsters due a comeback. I'd forgotten all about the Nimons!



They re-used the idea of draining a planet with those metal stingrays, didn't they?


----------



## strung out (Jun 3, 2010)

agree with that article, definitely want to see the proper cybermen back.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2010)

12 Greatest Lost Episodes

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/04/the_12_most_tragically_lost_doctor_who_adventures.php

I fucking love this site


----------



## strung out (Jun 3, 2010)

power of the daleks and the tenth planet are supposed to be ace. i have actually seen the tenth planet with the missing bits filled in by audio and commentary. great fun!


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 3, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah that had me cussing at the screen.
> 
> It's magic not science. He may look like he's from Hogwarts but let's do physics not spells please.



This show has always barely fit into the science fiction genre


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> This show has always barely fit into the science fiction genre



You can make some sciencey  type thing up but when it comes to biology, the mind and time, it just doesn't add up to anything other than magic.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2010)

any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic to those not so advanced.


Vincent and the Doctor tonight. Could be shit. Could be good.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2010)

yeah, written by richard curtis innit. which could be


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 5, 2010)

I read an article, I think on the BBC, where he said he had to rewrite a lot of this episode. So hopefully that means he's being kept on a tight leash and it won't be a load of soppy old wank.

My Dutch Whovian friend is highly amused by the trailers featuring an apparently Scottish van Gogh. I bet he won't pronounce his own name properly either.


----------



## ethel (Jun 5, 2010)

i liked the reference to celery. that is all.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 5, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I read an article, I think on the BBC, where he said he had to rewrite a lot of this episode. So hopefully that means he's being kept on a tight leash and it won't be a load of soppy old wank.



Radio Times suggests it will be 

nearly time - fingers crossed it aint shit


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 5, 2010)

Well, that made me both laugh and cry. A good episode. 

Although he should have just thrown some paint over the creature.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 5, 2010)

Call me a sentimental old fool, but that made me cry. Just a little bit, mind.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 5, 2010)

missfran said:


> Although he should have just thrown some paint over the creature.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 5, 2010)

Found it enjoyable/abit different to the other episodes.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2010)

really lovely change of pace. got a tad sickly at the end, but not overly so i don't think. i enjoyed it.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 5, 2010)

The Ultimate Ginger


----------



## Santino (Jun 5, 2010)

I wonder if it was originally a little darker, i.e. Vincent never gets over killing the misunderstood monster and that's why he kills himself.


----------



## Santino (Jun 5, 2010)

STILL not ginger.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2010)

Santino said:


> I wonder if it was originally a little darker, i.e. Vincent never gets over killing the misunderstood monster and that's why he kills himself.



not with richard curtis writing it. i'd imagine they had to tone down the cheesiness as much as possible, and it was still a bit cheesy.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 5, 2010)

Tony Curran was outstanding. I'm not sure if I misheard, but did Richard Curtis manage to squeeze "contrafibularities" into the script when Vincent was asking about the Tardis console? If so bravo!


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 5, 2010)

Cue Atomic Suplex complaining that it was mawkish and patronising.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 5, 2010)

strung_out said:


> really lovely change of pace. got a tad sickly at the end, but not overly so i don't think. i enjoyed it.



^ this really. A bit silly in places (the Dr acting like a prat - like him getting fighting in the wrong direction and getting bored/frustrated by ) and Vincent looking at the tardis was sweet but corny. Bit overly smug/sentimental in the look how wondrous everyone thinks you/your paintings are gallery (that was lovely though) & life is wonderful now scenes but they kept it real by showing Vincent being overwhelmed by it all & Bill Neigh doing the mental 'that looks like...nah can't be'  followed by the punch that even letting him know he would be appreciated in the future wasn't enough to change established (real) history and him from being consumed by his own demons. 

Vincent picking up Amy's secret loss and The Doctor accidentally calling him Rory was  (and him being extra nice to her + her "I'm not the marrying kind" ) 

Thought the creature was better when it was as a monster rather than a dino Turkey from Primevil until it was shown that was meant to be the point. 

Good he/they (wonder how much was actually by Curtis) didn't sanitise Van Gough mania and despair & it wasn't written as him as a wacky painter who wasn't mad just seeing aliens. The Doctor telling him he didn't think he was mas as depression is very complicated was v good writing - so was the moment Vincent realised 'the monster' was lashing out from the same fear as the people who'd attacked him 

Little bit similar to The Unquiet Dead with Dickens (historical figure gets a moment of hope and knowledge they'll be appreciated in the future but still dies). 

 at squashing the credits for the "if you've been affected by any of the issue in this programme.." help thing. 





			
				missfran said:
			
		

> Although he should have just thrown some paint over the creature.



^ true dat lol 

The Doctor's done it before too.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 5, 2010)

Santino said:


> I wonder if it was originally a little darker, i.e. Vincent never gets over killing the misunderstood monster and that's why he kills himself.



^ if only.

but there's nothing to contradict that.

adding to what I've just typed (got interrupted by a phone call), when Amy went back to the gallery talking about lots of new paintings, I had a horrible feeling that it would really dark & they were going to show time totally fucked up - i.e no Van Gough exhibit because if he hadn't died as established no one would cared about his paintings.

V cool getting a Hartnell & Troughton id printout and 'Reign Of Terror' /geek


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2010)

I think it was excellent, and yes, it made me cry.

I find it funny that people can't credit curtis with the whole script, or not without having his hand held during writing (something like who, everyone's script will need rewrites as they check -in with the series arcs etc.)

don't get me wrong - i've no time for curtis's love of sentimentality and cheese... but he's an accomplished writer.  It seems completely credible to me that someone whose writing includes the last series of Blackadder would also want to write the darkness in this.

I applaud Who generally (and specifically here) for not skirting around some of the hardest parts of being a person - here manic depression and suicide (and there was another suicide in the Waters of Mars - and those are only to my recollection) despite it being squarely, if not exclusively, aimed at kids of about six and up.  Bloody good stuff.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 5, 2010)

I cried! But I love Vincent Van Gogh's work and one of my dreams would be to show him what his paintings mean now


----------



## cybertect (Jun 5, 2010)

rollinder said:


> Good he/they (wonder how much was actually by Curtis) didn't sanitise Van Gough mania and despair & it wasn't written as him as a wacky painter who wasn't mad just seeing aliens. The Doctor telling him he didn't think he was mas as depression is very complicated was v good writing - so was the moment Vincent realised 'the monster' was lashing out from the same fear as the people who'd attacked him



Fuck.

Yes.

I knew Richard Curtis' sister quite well. She suffered from bipolar disorder and killed herself last year.

I'm now trying to work out when he wrote the script.


----------



## T & P (Jun 5, 2010)

I thought it was a lot blander than usual for this series. Enjoyable story, but far less thrilling and eventful than usual.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 5, 2010)

A little light but enjoyable. I even liked the ending, bar the shit music anyway. 

They managed to deal with the mental illness theme with some degree of subtlety and class as well as humour, the idea of a monster only Van Gogh could see was effective on a number of levels IMO.

e2a: yeah, and when they were laying there looking up at the stars...that got me a bit choked up. Bill Nighy's speech as well. That Curtis is an evil genius when it comes to schmaltz.


----------



## TAE (Jun 5, 2010)

I really like the new series.

At the end, in the gallery, I was half expecting to see a painting of Amy somewhere in background which they both miss. The writing on the vase was a much nicer touch though. 

The doctor clearly remembers Roy, interesting ...


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2010)

this week's confidential is worth watching, if you skip all the 'this is how we do  stunts' bollocks. In the last section (from about 36 mins on) they talk about dealing with depression as a storyline.

Moffat is quite clear that Curtis wanted to tell a story about how you can't save people from their own demons, even if you're the doctor.  In light of the revalation about his sister above (for which, thanks awfully, cybetect) I can see that quite sincerely in his contributions to Confidential.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2010)

btw, surprisingly relieved not to see the crack being shoehorned in.


another thought: is this the first ep of Moffat's era not to feature a child?


----------



## cybertect (Jun 5, 2010)

On a slightly less personal note, this was a bit of a return to the 1960s style stories - going back in time to visit a historical character or event (Marco Polo or the French Revolution in the first series in 1964). That the machine showed Hartnell and Troughton Doctors was somewhat appropriate.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2010)

cybertect said:


> On a slightly less personal note, this was a bit of a return to the 1960s style stories - going back in time to visit a historical character or event (Marco Polo or the French Revolution in the first series in 1964). That the machine showed Hartnell and Troughton Doctors was somewhat appropriate.



There's been at least one in every new who series:

Ecclestone - Dickens
Tennat S1: Queen Victoria, Mme de Pompadour
Tennant S2: Shakespeare
Tennant S3: Agatha Christie
Smith: Churchill, Van Gogh

did i miss any?


----------



## TAE (Jun 5, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> btw, surprisingly relieved not to see the crack being shoehorned in.


Ah yes, that's the other thing I was half expecting to see on a painting at the end.

Worth going back to iPlayer for?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 5, 2010)

cybertect said:


> On a slightly less personal note, this was a bit of a return to the 1960s style stories - going back in time to visit a historical character or event (Marco Polo or the French Revolution in the first series in 1964). That the machine showed Hartnell and Troughton Doctors was somewhat appropriate.



Yup, educate, entertain and inform.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 6, 2010)

missfran said:


> Cue Atomic Suplex complaining that it was mawkish and patronising.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2010)

I much prefer the historical stories, so this was good for me.  I liked it very much, right up to the ending, which I thought was typical Curtis emotional manipulation.


----------



## cesare (Jun 6, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Call me a sentimental old fool, but that made me cry. Just a little bit, mind.



Made me cry quite a lot


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jun 6, 2010)

missfran said:


> Cue Atomic Suplex complaining that it was mawkish and patronising.



Not sure whether I liked the episode or not...  but all the way through I was thinking "Atomic Suplex is going to HATE this..."


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2010)

I thought t was OK but lacked the crack and there was not enough Amy time. Other than that a solid, if not classic, episode.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 6, 2010)

liked very much

ending  was a bit  wonky  but  i did like  it   it just felt a little ott inn places

i'm glad the  crack wasn't there...  it should either be  somew3hat integral to the  episodes   such  as the  first one or  the   weeping angels  one   or at least  be a major plot point  such as vampires in venice...  it's really  shit  when it's just  shoved in     like  in starship uk  or the dalek one


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 6, 2010)

and although mawkish as hell in places  i don't  think it feels patronising  in the same  way  that  some episodes are   it managed to be fairly adult in  presentation


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 6, 2010)

I hope loads of kids are now badgering their parents to go and see some Van Gogh paintings


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 6, 2010)

I have mixed feelings about this episode. The plot was pretty weak and the Doctor and Amy both seemed to be out of character (one thing I like about Amy usually is that she isn't a screamer). The humorous bits fell a bit flat as well, at least for me in what''s been a pretty funny series for the most part.

On the other hand, the guy playing van Gogh was brilliant and it was quite touching towards the end. Also the whole episode looked really good- the scenery was great and Amy was all luminous 

She should totally have boned him though, and she blatantly would have if the Doctor had buggered off for a bit


----------



## FiFi (Jun 6, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I hope loads of kids are now badgering their parents to go and see some Van Gogh paintings




There's one 11yr old who already has!
Unfortunately I'm not sure any of the Portsmouth gallerys has any, or I'd be taking Littl'un today.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2010)

Entertain, inform, *educate*


----------



## feyr (Jun 6, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I hope loads of kids are now badgering their parents to go and see some Van Gogh paintings



my 6 and 7 year old bombarded me with questions about both Van Gogh and depression last night. after quite a lengthy chat about both ( their gran has bipolar disorder so they were quite curious anyway) , the 7 year old was walking around with a mirror checking the house for invisible monsters, while the 6 year old had her head in a history of art book 



FiFi said:


> There's one 11yr old who already has!
> Unfortunately I'm not sure any of the Portsmouth gallerys has any, or I'd be taking Littl'un today.



i showed feyrette, my 6 year old the national gallery of arts virtual tour http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/vgwel.htm this morning, with the promise to take her to see some properly next week 


i liked the episode, and yes it made me cry too


----------



## TAE (Jun 6, 2010)

Dr Who getting kids interested in art - who'd have thought? 



Did Van Gogh's description of his love of colours suggest he had Synesthesia ?

EDIT: 
Sounds like he did have it: http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2007/11/the_hidden_sense.php


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2010)

I put on Don Mcleans 'Vincent' after the show. I feel it hasn't aged well.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 6, 2010)

FiFi said:


> There's one 11yr old who already has!
> Unfortunately I'm not sure any of the Portsmouth gallerys has any, or I'd be taking Littl'un today.





feyr said:


> my 6 and 7 year old bombarded me with questions about both Van Gogh and depression last night. after quite a lengthy chat about both ( their gran has bipolar disorder so they were quite curious anyway) , the 7 year old was walking around with a mirror checking the house for invisible monsters, while the 6 year old had her head in a history of art book
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Aww both those posts have made me smile a lot


----------



## innit (Jun 6, 2010)

One thing I really like about this series is that there seems to be much less of the budget spunked on (often wonky) CGI and much more on fun locations.

I loved the episode - I thought it was good that the alien plot took second place to the exploration of Van Gogh's character, his art and his depression and the interaction between the two, and the ending struck the right balance between happy and sad / realistic.  They played with the time-travel element in a more interesting way than usual.

Shame they didn't catch up with Van Gogh in Brixton though


----------



## 1927 (Jun 6, 2010)

I'm not an avid Dr. Who watcher,but caught this last night and enjoyed it. interesting to see some of the commenst above about it inspiring kids to wnt to look at art because funnily It gave me a greater appreciation of VVG.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 6, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> one thing I like about Amy usually is that she isn't a screamer



I'm willing to bet good money she is...


----------



## mentalchik (Jun 6, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I put on Don Mcleans 'Vincent' after the show. I feel it hasn't aged well.



Awww i love that song......always brings a tear


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 6, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'm willing to bet good money she is...



Nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more...


----------



## ericjarvis (Jun 6, 2010)

Having had a day for it to settle, I think it may well be one of the best thing's Richard Curtis has ever written. It managed to deal with some serious real life issues and yet be tremendous fun from beginning to end.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I put on Don Mcleans 'Vincent' after the show. I feel it hasn't aged well.



And it was a shit song to start with.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2010)

boring old wank. Not scary. No suspense. Rubbish monster. 
Its Dr who - not an art docu-drama.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I hope loads of kids are now badgering their parents to go and see some Van Gogh paintings



One of the original points of doctor who was to edutain. The first doctor was always just doing traveling history and science lessons.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 6, 2010)

Kaka Tim said:


> boring old wank. Not scary. No suspense. Rubbish monster.
> Its Dr who - not an art docu-drama.



It wasn't meant to be like other episodes, just a break from the norm i think.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> And it was a shit song to start with.



That's not fair, it is the pinnacle of emotion whn you are a mopey 15 YO


----------



## TAE (Jun 6, 2010)

Kaka Tim said:


> Rubbish monster.



This guy?

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/geekdad/images/2007/12/11/ogp0002st.jpg


----------



## rollinder (Jun 6, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That's not fair, it is the pinnacle of emotion whn you are a mopey 15 YO



^ true that


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 7, 2010)

ericjarvis said:


> Having had a day for it to settle, I think it may well be one of the best thing's Richard Curtis has ever written. It managed to deal with some serious real life issues and yet be tremendous fun from beginning to end.



Completely agree. Certainly one of the stand out eps of recent years.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2010)

i really  like the sets this time

felt real  and  yet  so much a part of that  artscape


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 7, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i really  like the sets this time
> 
> felt real  and  yet  so much a part of that  artscape



Shot in Croatia


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2010)

actualy  the sets and  designs  were a bit of an annoyance on  some of the  episodes

the starship uk one in particularly  was  kind of  jarring   it was just  so   not  space  or  futuristic at all ...   it kind of  worked in a parody way  but  it  felt so out of place  when compared to  other futer  stuff


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 7, 2010)

I liked that about starship UK. It was sinister and almost steampunk. Like when the UK was leaving they just raided all the tourist tat shops in London and used the seized crap as decoration


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 7, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i really  like the sets this time
> 
> felt real  and  yet  so much a part of that  artscape



Definitely. They should shoot more historical episodes overseas. Much better than the way they used Dubai for the Tennant special, they wasted the location that time.


This van Gogh episode improved on rewatching, for me.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 7, 2010)

ericjarvis said:


> Having had a day for it to settle, I think it may well be one of the best thing's Richard Curtis has ever written. It managed to deal with some serious real life issues and yet be tremendous fun from beginning to end.



I'm in agreement with this. I did like the boat that rocked though, although I'm not sure whether or not I was supposed to


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked that about starship UK. It was sinister and almost steampunk. Like when the UK was leaving they just raided all the tourist tat shops in London and used the seized crap as decoration



but it  was now

like  everything  was   of a period     not  even trying  to  do anything futurey with it

it's worse than the roller discoing in buck rogers


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jun 8, 2010)

Am I the only one who is quite surprised to spot that Richard Curtis has watched Nightwatch?! 



Invisible Vampires Space Chickens FTW!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2010)

Kaka Tim said:


> boring old wank. Not scary. No suspense. Rubbish monster.
> Its Dr who - not an art docu-drama.


I wish Dr Who was like the Van Gogh episode more often.  _Good_ science fiction.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 8, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I wish Dr Who was like the Van Gogh episode more often.  _Good_ science fiction.



Bloody school teacher


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I wish Dr Who was like the Van Gogh episode more often.  _Good_ science fiction.



up there with Blink, I reckons


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 8, 2010)

i've just watched this episode so read through all the posts about it. i'm really surprised at how positive the comments have been, personally i think sometimes i think the further the episodes get away from what most people would say is 'proper' doctor who the more people like it.

i thought that it didn't feel at all like it fitted in anywhere and the monster was chucked in to give it even a passing resemblance to 'science fiction', but i can see why folks would like it, plus it's a strength of the format that it can be so flexible.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> personally i think sometimes i think the further the episodes get away from what most people would say is 'proper' doctor who the more people like it.


That _was_ proper Dr Who.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 8, 2010)

proper old school    like the aztecs   i have that   it's great

the doctor gets married


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 8, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> That _was_ proper Dr Who.



i'd say not a great story which benefited from being _called_ doctor who but then i think a lot of this series has been pretty light and not really used a great new doctor and companion as well as they could have been.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i've just watched this episode so read through all the posts about it. i'm really surprised at how positive the comments have been, personally i think sometimes i think the further the episodes get away from what most people would say is 'proper' doctor who the more people like it.
> 
> i thought that it didn't feel at all like it fitted in anywhere and the monster was chucked in to give it even a passing resemblance to 'science fiction', but i can see why folks would like it, plus it's a strength of the format that it can be so flexible.



The monster was a metaphor init. And you've got to have some sort of peril in there somewhere. I don't think they should be overly concerned with what's 'proper' Doctor Who and what ain't, the episodes I like least are the overly formulaic ones that feel dead simillar to that one from the previous series (this season's weeping angel two parter vs the far superior library one from last series for example). On the other hand you've got the most highly praised episode of the new era, Blink, which barely had the Doctor in it at all.


----------



## strung out (Jun 8, 2010)

_personally_ i think that this has been one of the best series in ages...definitely the best since it came back in '05. the only really weak episode imo was the dalek one, but i get how the series will be annoying a few purists


----------



## strung out (Jun 8, 2010)

oh, and no amy in this saturday's episode


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 8, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> The monster was a metaphor init. And you've got to have some sort of peril in there somewhere.



yes of course the monster was a metaphor, i just don't think it was done very well.



SpookyFrank said:


> I don't think they should be overly concerned with what's 'proper' Doctor Who and what ain't



completely, it's all subjective in any case and it's pointless to say what's more or less proper, for me the episode could easily have featured a character that wasn't the doctor and not been any different.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> completely, it's all subjective in any case and it's pointless to say what's more or less proper, for me the episode could easily have featured a character that wasn't the doctor and not been any different.



The Doctor and Amy were blown clear off the screen by the bloke playing Van Gogh in any case


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 8, 2010)

strung_out said:


> _personally_ i think that this has been one of the best series in ages...definitely the best since it came back in '05. the only really weak episode imo was the dalek one, but i get how the series will be annoying a few purists



i really wouldn't say i'm a purist, i think the best thing that could happen is for the series to constantly evolve. for me it's just a bit light at present, especially considering there was plenty of moaning when RTD was doing it.


----------



## dcib (Jun 8, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> That _was_ proper Dr Who.



That ghastly, toe-curling song at the end - _Chances_, I believe, from some horrid crew of untermenschen who style themselves "Athletes" - was proper Curtis. Proper Who it certainly wasn't.


----------



## strung out (Jun 8, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i really wouldn't say i'm a purist, i think the best thing that could happen is for the series to constantly evolve. for me it's just a bit light at present, especially considering there was plenty of moaning when RTD was doing it.



yeah, i probably didn't mean purist. not sure what word i did mean though


----------



## Augie March (Jun 8, 2010)

strung_out said:


> oh, and no amy in this saturday's episode



But we get James Corden instead!


----------



## Quartz (Jun 8, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> The Doctor and Amy were blown clear off the screen by the bloke playing Van Gogh in any case



He's come a long way since he appeared in Ultimate Force.


----------



## Augie March (Jun 8, 2010)

dcib said:


> That ghastly, toe-curling song at the end - _Chances_, I believe, from some horrid crew of untermenschen who style themselves "Athletes" - was proper Curtis. Proper Who it certainly wasn't.



It was proper "weapons-grade sentimentality", as the Grauniad so aptly described it.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 9, 2010)

Augie March said:


> But we get James Corden instead!



James Corden is an actor, so depends on the script I suppose. Besides, it might be great in any case - the Doctor trapped for a week, pub quiz team, laundry etc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2010)

strung_out said:


> oh, and no amy in this saturday's episode



How vexatious


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 9, 2010)

dcib said:


> That ghastly, toe-curling song at the end - _Chances_, I believe, from some horrid crew of untermenschen who style themselves "Athletes" - was proper Curtis. Proper Who it certainly wasn't.


Yes, that but was poor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2010)

'The Lodger' tonight. A staircase that eats people  I applaud moffats continuing attempts to make children afraid of random ordinary things.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 12, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> 'The Lodger' tonight. A staircase that eats people  I applaud moffats continuing attempts to make children afraid of random ordinary things.



I hope it eats James Corden


----------



## innit (Jun 12, 2010)

It would have be a very hungry staircase, etc


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 12, 2010)

This is awful. Was it written by a Blue Peter winner or something?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 12, 2010)

That was great fun, Corden toned it down and was most watchable. The football game was excellent - wasn't Matt Smith a would be footballer once?

I thought the room upstairs was an actual Tardis and maybe we'd see The Rani...

And next week looks pretty interesting


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 12, 2010)

Oh, that was, that was OK actually. Did they explain at all who the entity trying to build a Tardis was? 

Not the best episode, but serviceable enough.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 12, 2010)

jer said:


> wasn't Matt Smith a would be footballer once?



Yeah, he was nearly good enough to turn pro, apparently.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 12, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Oh, that was, that was OK actually. Did they explain at all who the entity trying to build a Tardis was?
> 
> Not the best episode, but serviceable enough.



Yeah, I wondered about who it was. Maybe they'll return...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 12, 2010)

That was great


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 12, 2010)

fun

not awesome but fun

a bit too soap opera in places

 i don't mind mixing in reality if   you do it as a horror  like in blink  but  i hate soaps  so a lot of the "every day" stuff felt a bit off    besides   it's meant  for geeks   the people who would  get picked last at football games... grrrrr


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2010)

I liked it.  I'm not a Cordon fan, nor do I like football, but that was fun.  I liked the angle.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 12, 2010)

Just reminded of a line via another forum:

"Hello, I'm Captain Troy Handsome of International Rescue, please state the nature of your emergency."

It's impossible not to like Matt Smith's Doctor with lines like that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2010)

I liked it. Not enough pond but otherwise it was good. Liked the way the room looled like a bluepeter version of a TARDIS console


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 13, 2010)

The line about people telling the doctor their plans was good. I thought the Tardis console may have lead into the next episode.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 13, 2010)

How many times have perception filters featured in this series? That has to be deliberate.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 13, 2010)

amy pond is pretty hot


----------



## BoxRoom (Jun 13, 2010)

Can't stand that Corden. When he was going towards the sinister dark patch on the wall that would possibly, hopefull kill him I actually shouted, "Touch it! TOUCH IT!!"

My neighbours were just outside.



Really enjoying this series so far, couple of blips (last 2 eps) aside I'm remaining positive and love Matt's take on the character.


----------



## the button (Jun 13, 2010)

Augie March said:


> But we get James Corden instead!



On a more positive note, he did get headbutted twice.


----------



## belboid (Jun 13, 2010)

some good one liners, decent basic set up, corden not too vile, daisy haggard marvellous, even if the whole thing didnt entirely hang together

Corden's character was a knowledgeable bugger in the end tho.... something about the Pandorica, being impressed at speaking to Amy Pond...


----------



## cesare (Jun 13, 2010)

the button said:


> On a more positive note, he did get headbutted twice.




Yes! 

He wasn't _too_ obnoxious in that, tbf.

There were some bits I liked e.g. the football but I did feel it was a bit of a letdown after last week.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 13, 2010)

Surprised that any form of head-butt was allowed on telly so early.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 13, 2010)

mwgdrwg said:


> Surprised that any form of head-butt was allowed on telly so early.


It was enjoyable, but not overly sexual.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

3/10, another nothing episode.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 13, 2010)

I really liked that one - probably my favourite of this season. No press preview discs for the last two episodes, boo. I shall have to watch it on transmission like a Norm.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 13, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> probably my favourite of this season.


 
Are you watching them in the right order? This was the comedy one with the doctor trying to kiss other men on the cheek, hyuh, hyuh, hyuh and being like really wicked at football (meanwhile letting several people go up the stairs of doom, but hey). It was pointless, and lazily written. Headbutts of knowledge, forsooth.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Are you watching them in the right order? This was the comedy one with the doctor trying to kiss other men on the cheek, hyuh, hyuh, hyuh and being like really wicked at football (meanwhile letting several people go up the stairs of doom, but hey). It was pointless, and lazily written. Headbutts of knowledge, forsooth.



instantly forgettable, unfortunately.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 13, 2010)

Doctor Who does comedy stories sometimes, just as it does science fiction, horror, tragedy, mystery etc. This episode was pretty good.

I think it's interesting, reading the comments on review sites and on here, that almost every episode so far has been slated by some as the worst yet and celebrated by others as their absolute favourite. Except the Churchill one, which wasn't anyone's favourite. Seems to me Moffat, knowing everyone has a different idea of what makes a good Who story, has been pitching for maximum variety in plots and writing styles to see what works. I wonder what the next series will be like, based on feedback for this one?


----------



## Tacita (Jun 13, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Headbutts of knowledge, forsooth.



what was that about? vulcan mind-meld for the football hoolie?


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

Tacita said:


> what was that about? vulcan mind-meld for the football hoolie?



a cop-out device since there was about 10 minutes to go.


----------



## Pingu (Jun 13, 2010)

a bollocks episode imo

wankier than a teenager discovering a big stash of razzles


----------



## zoooo (Jun 13, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked it. Not enough pond but otherwise it was good.



To be honest, I think the lack of Pond was why it worked.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 13, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> a cop-device since there was about 10 minutes to go.


 
Yes, that. Compare _the girl in the fireplace, say, for telepathic exchanges which further the plot and deepen the characterisation rather than being an excuse to avoid either._


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 13, 2010)

so someone was building a tardis? That sounded interesting, but then it seemed to be a crashed spaceship in distress looking for a pilot?
Finding another tardis is cooler idea. 

More shit ending bollocks with a quick crack behind the fridge. Have a running theme or don't you wankers.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Yes, that. Compare _the girl in the fireplace, say, for telepathic exchanges which further the plot and deepen the characterisation rather than being an excuse to avoid either._


_

obviously i meant a 'cop-out device'  _


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 13, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> obviously i meant a 'cop-out device'


 
There are good cop devices and bad cop devices, of course, and this was the latter.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> More shit ending bollocks with a quick crack behind the fridge. Have a running theme or don't you wankers.



11 episodes have passed and there's no sort of build-up to the final 2 parter, apart from parachuting in stuff about the crack in time which the doctor veers from saying could destroy the universe/all of reality/etc and forgetting all about.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> There are good cop devices and bad cop devices, of course, and this was the latter.



bravo!


----------



## zoooo (Jun 13, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> 11 episodes have passed and there's no sort of build-up to the final 2 parter, apart from parachuting in stuff about the crack in time which the doctor veers from saying could destroy the universe/all of reality/etc and forgetting all about.



True.
It's not really working overall for me anywhere near as well as the RTD series' did.

I'm still enjoying it, but I'm hoping it's a work in progress, and it'll improve next series.


----------



## belboid (Jun 13, 2010)

there have been quite a lot of little things which (I think) are leading up to the finale.  They've just been _subtle_ (some of the crack excluded)which isn't something RTD was really ever very good at.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

RTD certainly over-egged the omlette but at present i'd take any of his series over the current one, despite thinking that this doctor and companion are better than those that preceded them.


----------



## gsv (Jun 13, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> despite thinking that this doctor and companion are better than those that preceded them.


Gaah! He's an annoying twunty ghild-man-git! 
Pond on the other hand is a seriously hot SF redhead. I want one! 

GS(v)


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

a shame that her role was reduced to shouting 'doctor!' every other word yesterday.


----------



## killer b (Jun 13, 2010)

i enjoyed that anyway. the finale looks incredible...


----------



## zoooo (Jun 13, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> despite thinking that this doctor and companion are better than those that preceded them.



Really?
Matt Smith is a good Doctor (not as good as Tennant, but that's beside the point) and has the potential to be great, but Pond's a bit rubbish. I don't think they work too well together.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 13, 2010)

Smith may be a plausible Doctor but he's a considerably worse actor than either Tennant or Ecclestone. Eventually, this will find him out.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 13, 2010)

Tennant and Eccleston were established actors when they got the part. Smith is already pretty good and I think he's going to improve with time. He's probably already a better actor than any of the original bunch (save perhaps Troughton and maybe McCoy).


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 13, 2010)

i think smith has the raw materials to be a great doctor, so long as he's given something better to work with than running around in a towel or playing football.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 13, 2010)

I never really warmed to Tennant and was thoroughly fed up with him towards the end – it was like having a member of Take That as the Doctor (ooh he's so hunky!) and all that annoying "Humans are brrriillliiaaaannntttt!" stuff got right on my tits.

Smith is ace – he's made the Doctor seem properly other-wordly and weird again.


----------



## innit (Jun 13, 2010)

andy2002 said:


> I never really warmed to Tennant and was thoroughly fed up with him towards the end – it was like having a member of Take That as the Doctor (ooh he's so hunky!) and all that annoying "Humans are brrriillliiaaaannntttt!" stuff got right on my tits.
> 
> Smith is ace – he's made the Doctor seem properly other-wordly and weird again.



I didn't mind Tennant, although as you say the "Ohhhhh you are BRILLLIANNNNTTT" stuff was a bit over used.  But I think Smith is better for the same reasons, he acts like a total alien


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 13, 2010)

And he doesn't say geronimo nearly as much as we were all afraid he might


----------



## zoooo (Jun 13, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> And he doesn't say geronimo nearly as much as we were all afraid he might



Bloody good point!


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 13, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> a cop-out device since there was about 10 minutes to go.



Whereas they could've got rid of all the cheesy stuff like the football match and that would've given them adequate time for the Doctor to explain what was going on.
My guess is the powers that be at the Beeb are obsessed with making it "family entertainment" and that's ruining what could've been a quality bit of sci-fi/horror.
Quite enjoyed it, but it could've so much better.


----------



## belboid (Jun 13, 2010)

It always was 'family entertainment' and always will be. And the headbutting was far better than any amount of exposition, worked perfectly well.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 13, 2010)

Considering that a large part of the target audience is a lot younger than most posters here, it's never, apart from very rare exceptions, going to be scary.

I really liked Tennant and thought he was the best....he's not doing it any-more though, this new guy's filling in well...but it's a different shape.

Two headbutts on Corden, you would never have gotten that from Tennant (although maybe Eccleston or Pertwee).


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 13, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> the doctor veers from saying could destroy the universe/all of reality/etc and forgetting all about.





I've really enjoyed this series though, think Smith is excellent and largely enjoyed the writing.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 13, 2010)

gnoriac said:


> Whereas they could've got rid of all the cheesy stuff like the football match and that would've given them adequate time for the Doctor to explain what was going on.
> My guess is the powers that be at the Beeb are obsessed with making it "family entertainment" and that's ruining what could've been a quality bit of sci-fi/horror.
> Quite enjoyed it, but it could've so much better.



As belboid said it always has been family entertanment and always will 

I rather enjoyed the episode, not my favourite but had some good moments, some funny moments and I think Matt Smith is making a darn good doctor


----------



## Santino (Jun 13, 2010)

Smith has definitely made the part his own already. I believe he is the Doctor now.


----------



## innit (Jun 13, 2010)

Santino said:


> Smith has definitely made the part his own already. I believe he is the Doctor now.



He managed that for me quite quickly, whereas after 3 years the words "the Prime Minister" in isolation still conjure a mental image of Anthony.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 13, 2010)

Santino said:


> Smith has definitely made the part his own already. I believe he is the Doctor now.



Aye. I've said it before but he's impressed me more than i was expecting him too. Havent watched this weeks episode yet but might do later.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2010)

He made it his role in Starship UK.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 13, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> He made it his role in Starship UK.



I pretty much loved his take on the Doctor immediately – all that mad fish custard stuff and the way he called back the eye-ball aliens to bollock them.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2010)

Me and Eme enjoyed it. A nice, easy, fun bit of tele.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2010)

Which is, in the end, what one EXPECTS from doctor who. The program may cater for us geeks but it is intended to be a bit of family saturday night entertainment. That it is so long running and comes with enough skill to hook a new generation while catering for an older generation(s) AND still gets geek jaws a-flapping is a testament to it.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 13, 2010)

I get my Whovian kicks from Radio 7 these days.. MGann is my favourite Dr


----------



## Iguana (Jun 13, 2010)

zoooo said:


> Matt Smith is a good Doctor (not as good as Tennant, but that's beside the point) and has the potential to be great, but Pond's a bit rubbish. I don't think they work too well together.



This, except I liked Eccelstone quite a bit more than Tennant.  In fact I liked Smith just fine up until his freak out at the Daleks.  It was absolute paint-by-the-numbers and not in any way real.  Compared to 9's reaction in Dalek, which was completely raw and conveyed so very much so simply, it was just a poor imitation.

And I really dislike Amy.  She does this weird thing all of the time where she slumps her shoulders, hangs her head, lets her hair fall forward and looks up through it in a way that I think is meant to look cute but just succeeds in making her look mentally challenged.  She's not Martha bad, but she's still bad.


----------



## fieryjack (Jun 13, 2010)

Matt Smith, to me, is head and shoulders above either of the other New Whos, plus everything about the series (apart from the fx) has improved immeasurably since it escaped the smug, self-congratulatory coterie that surrounded RTD. It's still a long way from perfect, but Matt Smith's performances ensure that otherwise-dismissable crap like Vampires of Venice get spared the derision that I heaped on Fear Her or Daleks in Manhatten or or or... I think he's magic.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 13, 2010)

Imo Matt Smith isn't as good as Eckleston was but he is pretty good. I prefer him loads more than Tennant.

But that might have something to do with Russel T Davies going and better scripting and direction. Its hard to pin it on just the actor.


----------



## fieryjack (Jun 13, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Its hard to pin it on just the actor.


not for me it's not, I think he's largely pitch-perfect. Having said that, I do see the fell hand of RTD in most of the stuff I didn't like about Ecclestone: he didn't look like he was enjoying the forced wackiness either. I feel sad about Tennant's doctor.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 13, 2010)

fieryjack said:


> I feel sad about Tennant's doctor.



You feel sad? That's bbrrrrriiiillllliiiiaaaannnnttttt!


----------



## janeb (Jun 13, 2010)

I've watched dr who since pertwee, and Smith is my favourite after Baker-and now running that pretty close. He is proper alien with real humanity


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 14, 2010)

janeb said:


> I've watched dr who since pertwee, and Smith is my favourite after Baker-and now running that pretty close. He is proper alien with real humanity



Yeah, what janeb says. Same age, same era  (probably!). Smith is fucking wonderful.


----------



## Cid (Jun 14, 2010)

Personally don't think Matt Smith is experienced enough as an actor... He's improved over the series, but is a bit too reliant on the quirky-mad face, not much emotional depth. Good mind you, just not as good as Tennant or Ecclestone... However acting ability is only part of it, in a sense it's nice to have someone finding their feet (hasn't done a sort of revert to type), also better scripting/direction pushes him ahead of Tennant a lot of the time.

Hope he regenerates into Toby Jones though.


----------



## strung out (Jun 14, 2010)

Cid said:


> Personally don't think Matt Smith is experienced enough as an actor... He's improved over the series,



that's strange, seeing as the episodes have been shot in a completely different order to the one that they've been broadcast in.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 14, 2010)

belboid said:


> It always was 'family entertainment' and always will be. And the headbutting was far better than any amount of exposition, worked perfectly well.



More contemporary than a Vulcan mind meld, at any rate


----------



## zoooo (Jun 14, 2010)

Iguana said:


> And I really dislike Amy.  She does this weird thing all of the time where she slumps her shoulders, hangs her head, lets her hair fall forward and looks up through it in a way that I think is meant to look cute but just succeeds in making her look mentally challenged.  She's not Martha bad, but she's still bad.



Yes, she's quite one-note. She seems to have one facial expression: pursed lips and a slight frown. And she delivers almost every line in the same smug bellowing way.
Quite crap.

But very pretty, which I guess is the point of her.

I bet she's quite easy to impersonate, I can imagine Roni Ancona having a good go at one in the next series of that impressions show.


----------



## Cid (Jun 14, 2010)

strung_out said:


> that's strange, seeing as the episodes have been shot in a completely different order to the one that they've been broadcast in.



Fair point, possibly just that the character development in the script gets better.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 14, 2010)

Santino said:


> Smith has definitely made the part his own already. I believe he is the Doctor now.



Was it this part? No wonder kids hide behind the sofa. 

(15 mins 10 seconds if you are that bothered....


----------



## Augie March (Jun 14, 2010)

Right, the thing that comes out of the Pandorica, the biggest threat to everything ever... I reckon it's going to be the Doctor.

Maybe a future version of him that has gone a bit wrong and evil. And River, or Amy (or both as they could well be the same person) is going to have to kill him.

Maybe...


----------



## belboid (Jun 14, 2010)

ooh yes, Bizarro World Doctor!  Class notion


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 14, 2010)

Augie March said:


> Right, the thing that comes out of the Pandorica, the biggest threat to everything ever... I reckon it's going to be the Doctor.
> 
> Maybe a future version of him that has gone a bit wrong and evil. And River, or Amy (or both as they could well be the same person) is going to have to kill him.
> 
> Maybe...


Yeah, I thought similar


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 14, 2010)

And yet I post up the Dr's cock and *nothing*


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 14, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> And yet I post up the Dr's cock and *nothing*



perception filter


----------



## Augie March (Jun 14, 2010)

belboid said:


> ooh yes, Bizarro World Doctor!  Class notion



There is a certain half-human version of the Doctor in an alternate universe...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 14, 2010)

Augie March said:


> There is a certain half-human version of the Doctor in an alternate universe...


 
That's rather harsh, although certainly the years have not been kind to Colin Baker.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2010)

Spoiler: who



apparently the series ends with the TARDIS exploded and the universe resting on the shoulders of amy pond



eh?


----------



## Augie March (Jun 14, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Spoiler: who
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think that happens in the next episode as this is the BBC blurb for the last episode, The Big Bang: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/proginfo/tv/2010/wk26/sat.shtml#sat_doctorwho


----------



## Augie March (Jun 14, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> That's rather harsh, although certainly the years have not been kind to Colin Baker.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 14, 2010)

Augie March said:


>



the CG for the sontarans has just got worse and worse


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2010)

It isn't like the man wasn't fond of his dinner before that photo. He looks hale and hearty there.


----------



## belboid (Jun 14, 2010)

a cross between bill oddie and biggins


----------



## rollinder (Jun 15, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> And yet I post up the Dr's cock and *nothing*



speaking of the Doctor's cock  there's a Virgin soft porn novel all about Paul/the 8th Doctor Mcgann's 'perky penis'  http://www.portiadacosta.com/thestranger.html (NSFW)


----------



## rollinder (Jun 15, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yeah, I thought similar



me too - think it'll be The Dream Lord/Valeyard/half-a-Tennant or The Doctor we've been seeing this series turns out to not really be the Doctor but an embodyment of him created by the cosmic forces of the crack or some such bollocks and the real Doctor is in the Pandorica. 


Spoiler: spoiler or wild fan theory?



and then there's the theory that's been saying similar about Amy not being the real Amelia Pond...



I had a dream inspired by that trailor on Saturday night (before reading any theories) that it was the Dream Lord and Tennant was mysteriously there instead of Matt & getting cross with him for turning up again.



belboid said:


> a cross between bill oddie and biggins


he does too


----------



## The Master (Jun 15, 2010)

you when your curious and regret it
yea i check imdb for doctor who this series (wanted to check something) and saw for the last two episodes who a person is playing.

i am not not gonna invert it in spoilers because i dont to ruin it for you


----------



## fieryjack (Jun 15, 2010)

The Master said:


> you when your curious and regret it
> yea i check imdb for doctor who this series


last time I looked imdb Bonnie Langford was returning as The Rani and she's now married to Sutekh as played by Terry Nutkins.

not a reliable source. Not _always _wrong, like, but not worth fretting over.


----------



## Pingu (Jun 15, 2010)

plus tbh are you going to trust anything posted by someone called "the master" on a Dr Who thread?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jun 15, 2010)

Pingu said:


> plus tbh are you going to trust anything posted by someone called "the master" on a Dr Who thread?



Indeed, always in the background meddling in the Doctor's plans...


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 15, 2010)

WTF?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/10316872.stm

Who's been complaining about Amy being 'too sexy'?


----------



## 8ball (Jun 15, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Who's been complaining about Amy being 'too sexy'?



I complained 5 times and am suing the BBC for the cost of a perfectly good pair of trousers.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 15, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> WTF?
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/10316872.stm
> 
> Who's been complaining about Amy being 'too sexy'?


 
Parents.

Won't somebody think of the children!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 15, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Won't somebody think of the children!


I think in those circumstances we _really_ don't want people thinking of the children


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 15, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Parents.


Very stupid parents, then.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 15, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> WTF?
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/10316872.stm
> 
> Who's been complaining about Amy being 'too sexy'?



Must be the same people who complain about me


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 15, 2010)

If amy is in trousers next series I am going to go on a Bird like spree


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 15, 2010)

I liked it. 

It was fun. It was a bit scary. It was quite daft. 

Headbutts for the win! 

Matt Smith is great as the doctor and this series is more hit than miss - so refreshing after RTD's over blown crap and Tennants incessant gurning.


I cant really have a objective opinion about amy pond as she gives me ...  er. .. concentration problems.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 15, 2010)

After seeing summat Shevek said on another thread I was inspired to check my facebook, and it turns out i'm two friend requests away from Steven Moffat.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 15, 2010)

Potentially *massive spoilers* for the two-part Who finale here: www.bleedingcool.com/2010/06/15/big...seriously-big-gnarly-pointy-fingered-spoilers


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 15, 2010)

andy2002 said:


> Potentially *massive spoilers* for the two-part Who finale here: www.bleedingcool.com/2010/06/15/big-doctor-who-finale-spoilers-no-seriously-big-gnarly-pointy-fingered-spoilers



There were some enormously spoiley photos going around earlier for not just this week but for the last episode. Someone had broken the embargo date on them, and they've gone now, and I kinda wish I hadn't seen some of them.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 17, 2010)

Augie March said:


> Right, the thing that comes out of the Pandorica, the biggest threat to everything ever... I reckon it's going to be the Doctor.



But they've already done that with the Dream Lord.

Unless that was foreshadowing...


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 17, 2010)

Quartz said:


> Unless that was foreshadowing...



I did wonder whether the whole "psychic beans" thing was just the Doctor making shit up.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Ive been looking forward to this all week.  Somethings go to cheer me up after last  nights shambles.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> I've been looking forward to this all week. Something's got to cheer me up after last week's shambles.


 
With some amendments, that's what I think.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2010)

the long story arc had better deliver, moffat.


----------



## innit (Jun 19, 2010)

I always found RTD's series finales a bit unsatisfying.  Fingers crossed Steveo can do better.


----------



## Cid (Jun 19, 2010)

Quartz said:


> But they've already done that with the Dream Lord.
> 
> Unless that was foreshadowing...



Didn't he look at his reflection with a concerned expression at the end or something?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

innit said:


> I always found RTD's series finales a bit unsatisfying.  Fingers crossed Steveo can do better.


The first half of rtds finales were always excellent then he always fluffed the second bits upwith sentimental bollix . Hopefully sm has learnt from  this


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 19, 2010)

I liked how over the top the RTD episodes were. They could get a bit  but they were still fun to watch.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 19, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> 11 episodes have passed and there's no sort of build-up to the final 2 parter, apart from parachuting in stuff about the crack in time which the doctor veers from saying could destroy the universe/all of reality/etc and forgetting all about.



You havent noticed the jacket on/ jacket off clue then....and I am certain that there have been a couple of times in the series when the bow tie and braces combo have not been as they should be....

And you havent noticed sometimes that the Dr asks Amy to remind him what was said?

Or when the Dr called River Song a professor, and she turned around and squealed - "Ooh, I get to be a professor?"


Lots and lots of clues, but very subtle and when this has all finished we'll be going "ooooooooooh!"


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 19, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> There were some enormously spoiley photos going around earlier for not just this week but for the last episode. Someone had broken the embargo date on them, and they've gone now, and I kinda wish I hadn't seen some of them.



They are on You Tube


----------



## Augie March (Jun 19, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> You havent noticed the jacket on/ jacket off clue then....and I am certain that there have been a couple of times in the series when the bow tie and braces combo have not been as they should be....
> 
> And you havent noticed sometimes that the Dr asks Amy to remind him what was said?
> 
> ...



There are no ducks in the pond.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 19, 2010)

That odd line in the angel's forest- "Remember what I said to you when you were seven... no, it doesn't matter", something like that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2010)

Looks like Moll Flanders is back for this 2-parter as well. SUCH a milf and a good actress


----------



## Pingu (Jun 19, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> You havent noticed the jacket on/ jacket off clue then....and I am certain that there have been a couple of times in the series when the bow tie and braces combo have not been as they should be....
> 
> And you havent noticed sometimes that the Dr asks Amy to remind him what was said?
> 
> ...


 
or "meh"


----------



## Augie March (Jun 19, 2010)

Meh like a fox.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 19, 2010)

Pingu said:


> or "meh"



It wont be 'meh'. You'll want to go back and watch the whole series and spot the clues you missed


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Great start


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Fantastic far better than any rtd finale !


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

Absolutely superb. Nothing else to say.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

Apart from: best Who cliffhanger ever, surely?


----------



## Ozric (Jun 19, 2010)

Very good....but absolute bastards for not even a single clip of next weeks!!!!


----------



## emanymton (Jun 19, 2010)

Why is the tardis blowing up?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

emanymton said:


> Why is the tardis blowing up?


 
They might explain that next week, perhaps?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 19, 2010)

Meh


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Apart from: best Who cliffhanger ever, surely?



Dunno if I am getting carried away but possibly my favourite ever episode . I am completey convinced by Matt Smiths Dr now.

Lets hope next weeks matches it.


----------



## innit (Jun 19, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Meh



Predictolol 

eta watching it soon and very very excited after seeing these comments!  what no "next time"?!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Just to be continued...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> I am completey convinced by Matt Smiths Dr now.
> .


 
He didn't actually have to do all _that_ much, and you could imagine Tennant playing every scene there in pretty much the same way. 

What I'm convinced by, without a shadow of a doubt, is Moffat.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

innit said:


> Predictolol
> 
> eta watching it soon and very very excited after seeing these comments! what no "next time"?!


 
 What are you doing on a thread possibly infested with spoilers then? Away with you!


----------



## rollinder (Jun 19, 2010)

fuck, fuck, fuck

how are they going to resolve _that_?

that was New Adventures' levels of The Doctor getting everything so fucking wrong and ending up broken

re Amy's part of the cliffhanger - so that's why we had her saving Bracewell from exploding with the power of love 

Was it the light (or just me) or did the doctor's bow tie change from red to blue in some shots? 



Spoiler: for speculation



the Dr's comments re Amy's life making no sense and her house having too many empty rooms - like last week's imaginary upstairs, and apart from the photo of her and Rory everything we(River) saw in her house was from her childhood = more suggestions that she's not real/never really stopped being a little girl?





Spoiler: for people who haven't seen it yet



oh and where those super camouflage autons?

and - who else jumped at that terrifiing new/old cyberman and it's skull/tentacles *shiver*


----------



## Quartz (Jun 19, 2010)

rollinder said:


> Spoiler: for speculation
> 
> 
> 
> the Dr's comments re Amy's life making no sense and her house having too many empty rooms - like last week's imaginary upstairs, and apart from the photo of her and Rory everything we(River) saw in her house was from her childhood = more suggestions that she's not real/never really stopped being a little girl?



They really wouldn't go for the _Dallas_ option, would they?



> Spoiler: for people who haven't seen it yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes and yes.

But something seems very off: how did all those races get time travel? We know that the Daleks have the capability, but the Cybermen didn't, nor do any of the others. 

There's something very wrong with the set-up, and it's going to be the source of the solution.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

Quartz said:


> There's something very wrong with the set-up, and it's going to be the source of the solution.


 
Hmm. An Alliance might well share technology, for the duration. Suspect it's a potential plot hole that won't be addressed.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2010)

As I said earlier in the thread, all the old baddies are coming back. Props to me. If the nature of reality itself is breached then the possibility for all of Who's enemies to join up exists. Amy was wearing tight jeans, which I can only approve of


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 19, 2010)

Excellent - enjoyed that. And I liked the fact that there was no trailor for next week so all the kiddies - and me - would worry.

Plus I hope that thousands of children are demanding to go to Stonehenge....I am!


----------



## rollinder (Jun 19, 2010)

Quartz said:


> But something seems very off: how did all those races get time travel? We know that the Daleks have the capability, but the Cybermen didn't, nor do any of the others.
> 
> There's something very wrong with the set-up, and it's going to be the source of the solution.



if the people aren't really people, how do we know they're really in the past?
oh and slipping in and out of the cracks in time ?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2010)

cyberman head spidering it was blates nicked from carpenters The Thing


----------



## rollinder (Jun 19, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Plus I hope that thousands of children are demanding to go to Stonehenge....I am!



my fucked up brain started soundtracking part of the programme with a certain Spinal Tap song & intro


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 19, 2010)

rollinder said:


> my fucked up brain started soundtracking part of the programme with a certain Spinal Tap song & intro



Mr. QofG's started quoting the song....until I shushed him


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 19, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> cyberman head spidering it was blates nicked from carpenters The Thing


 
And from the Medusa. Archetypal fingy, innit. Collective unconscious 'nallthat.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 19, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> cyberman head spidering it was blates nicked from carpenters The Thing



Oh, aye! 

Pretty bloody marvellous ep though.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 19, 2010)

Quartz said:


> They really wouldn't go for the _Dallas_ option, would they?





Spoiler: more speculation



I don't mean that the whole series hasn't happened but that she could be something that doesn't know it's not real and she stays alive / stops being dead next week via the power of memories and dreams (and probably the Doctor nipping back to a scene or two we've already seen to seed a few thoughts in her head...


----------



## TAE (Jun 19, 2010)

*Super episode*

Wow, just wow. Next week should be interesting. 

Hmm ... did they just put the one thing into a trap that you should never ever put in a trap?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> He didn't actually have to do all _that_ much, and you could imagine Tennant playing every scene there in pretty much the same way.
> 
> What I'm convinced by, without a shadow of a doubt, is Moffat.



I havent been that convinced with MS's Smith so far until tonight but his emotion at the end did it for me. Much kudos to the Moff tho


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 19, 2010)

finally a big episode that  felt both big, but also restrained

and  thankfully no power of love shit yet


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 19, 2010)

rollinder said:


> Was it the light (or just me) or did the doctor's bow tie change from red to blue in some shots?


----------



## Santino (Jun 19, 2010)

Doctor Who undone by a Coalition. 

Now we know why they closed the new visitor centre at Stonehenge.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 19, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


>



That could tie in with something strange that happened in the angels 2 parter . Watch it again


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 19, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> That could tie in with something strange that happened in the angels 2 parter . Watch it again



Actually, you could watch this episode again too, specifically the Dr with Cleopatra and the Dr in the Pandorum.



And from a previous episode - "There's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart, if you value your continued existence, if you have any plans about seeing tomorrow there's one thing you never ever put in a trap.....Me."



And from another previous episode - "Amy Pond, there is something you had better understand about me and its very important and one day your life may depend on it. I am definitely a mad man with a box"


Course, I could be wrong (and probably am), but its definitely a popular theory.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 20, 2010)

I guess given the circumstances any clips at all from the next episode would qualify as a major spoiler. So no trailer.


One nitpick: would Amy still have that photo of Rory?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 20, 2010)

After that was over I said to my friend: "Well that wasn't bad in itself, and I didn't get the twist until when they revealed it, even if I was a bit drunk, and if I trusted them to conclude the thing properly it could end up well. Only after the fucking Angels I don't trust them at all and I think they'll muff it in a really embarrassingly shit way."


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 20, 2010)

You're a mod, you don't have any friends


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 20, 2010)

It was a real person, not one of you internet imagination figments. Possibly a robot of some sort though I admit.


----------



## Santino (Jun 20, 2010)

Oh, and that dart they shot Amy with was BLATES a toxic dart from Attack of the Clones.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2010)

Santino said:


> Doctor Who undone by a Coalition.
> 
> Now we know why they closed the new visitor centre at Stonehenge.



You know what really annoyed me, I mean annoyed me more than it should have done? When the daleks appear, and they are the rebooted ones, I thought the lead Dalek was white with gold studs. I thought imperial Daleks were back, but oh no, fuck old who save slying the odd Hartnell reference in as dutiful respect but no more.CUNTS.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 20, 2010)

Just seen the episode on iplayer, looking forward to the 2nd part.


----------



## Fullyplumped (Jun 20, 2010)

Santino said:


> Oh, and that dart they shot Amy with was BLATES a toxic dart from Attack of the Clones.



All your blates are belong to us.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 20, 2010)

I think Amy is a robot built by the Daleks, like that guy in the WWII episode.


----------



## smokedout (Jun 20, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Apart from: best Who cliffhanger ever, surely?



just before the end the nearly seven year old looked at me with tears welling up in his eyes asking if this was going to be the last ever Dr Who

he was dead chuffed when it said to be continued


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 20, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> One nitpick: would Amy still have that photo of Rory?



This.

If Rory had never existed, why would a photo of him and Amy be in her house? 

Unless because she remembered him last night means he had existed after all, and therefore allows a photo to be in her house the week after, allowing him to be recreated last night, which allowed her to remember him, which allowed his photo to be there next week, which allowed him to be there last night ....


ARRGGGHHHHHHH!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 20, 2010)

Apart from that, I jolly well enjoyed last night's episode. Far more than any other this series. Some great laughs (the Cyberman snappy head thing was hilarious), and Smith's acting was rather good.

I'd pay real money to watch Pond get shot over and over again though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2010)

((((Amy))))


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 20, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> cyberman head spidering it was blates nicked from carpenters The Thing



It even split in two (showing the skull)


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 20, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> He didn't actually have to do all _that_ much, and you could imagine Tennant playing every scene there in pretty much the same way.



His reaction to learning there was a Dalek fleet in orbit was excellent. He conveyed a lot without slipping into melodrama or histrionics, which is what Tennant and even Eccleston would do in similar situations.

Although I still don't understand why the destruction of the TARDIS is such an apocalyptic event. Surely they lost thousands of them in the Time War?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 20, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Although I still don't understand why the destruction of the TARDIS is such an apocalyptic event. Surely they lost thousands of them in the Time War?



Time Lords were still around to mitigate the consequences. The Doctor did say he was the only one who could prevent disaster.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> His reaction to learning there was a Dalek fleet in orbit was excellent. He conveyed a lot without slipping into melodrama or histrionics, which is what Tennant and even Eccleston would do in similar situations.
> 
> Although I still don't understand why the destruction of the TARDIS is such an apocalyptic event. Surely they lost thousands of them in the Time War?



Perhaps the last TARDIS carries with it all the power of the dead TARDISes?
Or perhaps it's something to do with the Eye of Time?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2010)

Eye of Harmony. All TARDIS are linked to it- an artificial black hole created by the stellar egineer Omega (he of the hand)

Point, actually. If the Eye is contained within the time-locked reality what is the Doc's type 40 running on?


----------



## dessiato (Jun 20, 2010)

Quick question, we don't get Dr Who here, so I have to download it, that one in which Amy gets killed, was it the penultimate episode of the current series?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2010)

yes, the season finale is on next saturday


----------



## innit (Jun 20, 2010)

rollinder said:


> Was it the light (or just me) or did the doctor's bow tie change from red to blue in some shots?



I am pretty sure it was just the light - the extremely cool colour temperature on the shots outside the Pandorica made the colour look ambiguous, which could be intentional I suppose.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 20, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> yes, the season finale is on next saturday



Thanks, I'll get it before I leave for the summer! Although at first I thought that this wasn't a good series I've really grown into addiction. I don't want Amy to die.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2010)

There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that Moffat is writing Amy Pond out. The backlash from weeping fanbois would threaten to kill him.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 20, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> There isn't a snowballs chance in hell that Moffat is writing Amy Pond out. The backlash from weeping fanbois would threaten to kill him.



Add me to that list! She is the sexiest assistant ever, a little on the skinny side but utterly gorgeous.

Sometimes I use Dr Who as listening and speaking materials for classes, all the males, and most of the female students enjoy the series. I doubt that this is strictly legal but it works really well.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Eye of Harmony..


Pedant! 


> All TARDIS are linked to it- an artificial black hole created by the stellar egineer Omega (he of the hand)
> 
> Point, actually. If the Eye is contained within the time-locked reality what is the Doc's type 40 running on?


Well, even though the Eye is "sealed", we know that the Dr's TARDIS *IS* linked to it, so perhaps the question might be: As the only extant device linked to the Eye, could the destruction of the Type 40 cause some kind of temporal feedback to/with the Eye that destroys time and space?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2010)

Very good twist at the end. I was expecting something unutterably lame like John fucking Simm showing up again, but instead they really have locked the most dangerous creature in the history of the universe away in a big box 

There's still a big reveal to come as well, who's been playing silly buggers with the Tardis? Who is left to save the day? Will the costume department manage to find Amy an even shorter pair of shorts?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 20, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> yes, the season finale is on next saturday



Series finale. 

You have been watching too much yanky doodle TV. We don't have 'seasons' of tele here.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 20, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Series finale.
> 
> You have been watching too much yanky doodle TV. We don't have 'seasons' of tele here.


'Telly', in abbreviation, please, or are you Greek?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Series finale.
> 
> You have been watching too much yanky doodle TV. We don't have 'seasons' of tele here.



To much heroes, BSG, etc.

I'm falling into ameericanisms


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 20, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Very good twist at the end. I was expecting something unutterably lame like John fucking Simm showing up again




Or RTD


----------



## Augie March (Jun 20, 2010)

Oh man, I was right with my prediction of what was in the Pandorica. Kind of.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 20, 2010)

jer said:


> Or RTD



Or Graham Norton in a sparkly gold suit


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 20, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Or Graham Norton in a sparkly gold suit



That would be terrifying. I often wonder if he's fallen through the cracks in time, seeing as he crops up frakkin everywhere


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 20, 2010)

I thought it was ok, it was quite creepy and I'm not obviously seeing either a 'doctor remembers he has a sonic pandorica unlocking device in his y fronts' or a 'rose actually is the pandorica box and lets him out cos LURVE rules and a bit of her breath touched the begining of time or something' type ending... 

Though, River Song did say 'oh why do I let you out...' or something like that, so presumably, somehow she knows she's going to release him... 

Have enjoyed this series a lot - much less cgi, more thought about writing would be my conclusion. Would be a brave, but probably quite good move to get rid of Amy now, I only hope SM doesn't end up going down the ludicrously long winded almost soap opera style route RTD ended up on, bringing back characters time and again...'Oh look, it's Rose's mum...' 'oh here's mickey!' 'The fate of the world rest with Bernard Cribbens' etc. 

The whole point of Who is the limitless world and the endless variety of people of all shapes and forms he can meet, so it seems a really unexciting device to keep dragging back recurring characters...

eta, oh, was the reference to the time device that riversong bought a little nod to Cap'n Jack? A handsome time agent wasn't it?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 20, 2010)

tangerinedream said:


> eta, oh, was the reference to the time device that riversong bought a little nod to Cap'n Jack? A handsome time agent wasn't it?



If so, he now has a severed hand...


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jun 20, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> This.
> 
> If Rory had never existed, why would a photo of him and Amy be in her house?
> 
> ...



In the first episode of the one with the mine didn't they see *both* of them waving at the start?


----------



## pigtails (Jun 20, 2010)

jer said:


> If so, he now has a severed hand...



well he does end up as the face of bo..... maybe this was the start!


----------



## 8ball (Jun 20, 2010)

pigtails said:


> well he does end up as the face of bo..... maybe this was the start!



He can regenerate big chunks of himself (there was that time he got blown into soup) so should be fine with such a minor flesh wound.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 20, 2010)

8ball said:


> He can regenerate big chunks of himself (there was that time he got blown into soup) so should be fine with such a minor flesh wound.



Silly me, yes, of course. Forgot all that.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 20, 2010)

jsut watched this on catch up.

Very good. The cyber head with tentacles - and a skull inside - was proper scary! 

Auton roman soldiers! 

Class. 

(still dont like the new-look daleks though)


----------



## pigtails (Jun 20, 2010)

8ball said:


> He can regenerate big chunks of himself (there was that time he got blown into soup) so should be fine with such a minor flesh wound.



oh yeah!
So how does he end up as a head then!


----------



## The_Reverend_M (Jun 20, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> cyberman head spidering it was blates nicked from carpenters The Thing



I was thinking facehugger from Alien when it opened up and was trying to get her head inside it.

...a total 'wow' episode - Who is back to it glories of olden days


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 21, 2010)

Finally got round to watching it on iPlayer.

Kewl


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> 'Telly', in abbreviation, please, or are you Greek?



Yes that was a silly mistake. I have been hanging round with too many guitars.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2010)

pigtails said:


> oh yeah!
> So how does he end up as a head then!



Do we know for sure that he is the Face of Bo?

I like to think he might be, but I'm not sure it's been confirmed has it?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2010)

yes it has- cptn Jack is the face of Bo.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Do we know for sure that he is the Face of Bo?
> 
> I like to think he might be, but I'm not sure it's been confirmed has it?


Yes, he lived for so long he lost his accent.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Jun 21, 2010)

It's obvious now that the new Rory is in fact an android.

Someone- whoever's landing craft was in Amy's garden- took her memories of Rory and implanted it into it.

Cue doctors new assistant- A fucking Robot version of Rory. May God help us all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> It's obvious now that the new Rory is in fact an android.
> 
> Someone- whoever's landing craft was in Amy's garden- took her memories of Rory and implanted it into it.
> 
> Cue doctors new assistant- A fucking Robot version of Rory. May God help us all.


Maybe he was always a robot, hence the birth date paradox in the first episode.  

(I'm getting the hang of this nerd thing).


----------



## Cid (Jun 21, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> yes it has- cptn Jack is the face of Bo.



No it hasn't.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

Cid said:


> No it hasn't.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 21, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> Cue doctors new assistant- A fucking Robot version of Rory. May God help us all.



They muffed a really good chance for this in the first series when they met the imprisoned Dalek. Rose gave it some humanity, but it committed suicide. A Dalek as a companion would have been ... interesting.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 21, 2010)

IT MIGHT  GET A LITTLE ANNOYING AFTER SOME TIIIIIIIME!!!!

you know when the blood from your  ears  drowns you


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 21, 2010)

Going on what I know of Dr. Who and other sci-fi/fantasy, I am 85% certain Amy = not dead.

Especially as Rory just came back as a fucking robot.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Going on what I know of Dr. Who and other sci-fi/fantasy, I am 85% certain Amy = not dead.
> 
> Especially as Rory just came back as a fucking robot.


She isn't dead; the Radio Times said she's in next year's series.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2010)

it isn't a robot it is an auton. Controlled by the Nesteen Consciousness.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 21, 2010)

Eye of Harmony? I thought the Tardis ran on Cardiff now. Captain Jack heals but only from fatal wounds apparently. If the arm thing didn't kill him then its gone. Although its the future they could grow him a new one or something.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 21, 2010)

unlike the nestle conciousness which  just   makes you wan to eat kit kats


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 21, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> She isn't dead; the Radio Times said she's in next year's series.


I win! Give me the keys to the Tardis 



DotCommunist said:


> it isn't a robot it is an auton. Controlled by the Nesteen Consciousness.


Aye, but "robot" sounds more dismissive and aloof


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 21, 2010)

Shippou-Chan;10790561]unlike the nestle conciousness which  just   makes you wan to eat kit kats[/QUOTE]Ooh said:


> Eye of Harmony? I thought the Tardis ran on Cardiff now. Captain Jack heals but only from fatal wounds apparently. If the arm thing didn't kill him then its gone. Although its the future they could grow him a new one or something.


He's more machine than man, now 

Wait...


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> It's obvious now that the new Rory is in fact an android.
> 
> Someone- whoever's landing craft was in Amy's garden- took her memories of Rory and implanted it into it.
> 
> Cue doctors new assistant- A fucking Robot version of Rory. May God help us all.



What was all that stuff from the first ep that made Rory much much older than he should have been? I remember some nerds talking about it somewhere. His staff card or something.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 21, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What was all that stuff from the first ep that made Rory much much older than he should have been? I remember some nerds talking about it somewhere. His staff card or something.



*raises eyebrow*

well your mysterious sources  were talking along the  right lines     he  had a NHS staff card  with a   odd  date on it... though  when asked  the guys at the beeb  say it was a screw up not foreshadowing


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 21, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> well your mysterious sources  were talking along the  right lines     he  had a NHS staff card  with a   odd  date on it... though  when asked  the guys at the beeb  say it was a screw up not foreshadowing



Or maybe it was deliberate. Perhaps the whole of Leadworth is a simulation, with less than 100% attention to detail eg there's a duck pond, but no ducks.


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## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Or maybe it was deliberate. Perhaps the whole of Leadworth is a simulation, with less than 100% attention to detail eg there's a duck pond, but no ducks.


Amelia Jessica Pond is, of course, an anagram of



Spoiler: Amy



A Jalapeno Iced Miss


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## AverageJoe (Jun 21, 2010)

I dunno why, but looking at you post it just jumped out at me that Leadworth is an anagram of Dr Who Tale. 

Or Dr Who Late.

Meh


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> I dunno why, but looking at you post it just jumped out at me that Leadworth is an anagram of Dr Who Tale.
> 
> Or Dr Who Late.
> 
> Meh


As in the _Late Dr Who_!


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## Doppelgänger (Jun 21, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> As in the _Late Dr Who_!




Only the charatcter is "The Doctor" and not "Doctor Who".

I think it's a red herring


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Only the charatcter is "The Doctor" and not "Doctor Who".
> 
> I think it's a red herring


Also Leadworth is an anagram of:



Spoiler: Leadworth



A thread low!


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2010)

i liked that 
 do the clever thing let somebody else try first


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> In the first episode of the one with the mine didn't they see *both* of them waving at the start?



Yes, and then it was just Amy waving at the end. Because Rory did exist before he died, but never existed after he died.


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## The Master (Jun 21, 2010)

i liked it when the doctor was talking about what could be in the Pandorica and in a certain POV could describe him.
its great how its been left for the final episode, a great shake up is what it needed


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## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes, and then it was just Amy waving at the end. Because Rory did exist before he died, but never existed after he died.


The herald two.


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## rollinder (Jun 21, 2010)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Do we know for sure that he is the Face of Bo?
> 
> I like to think he might be, but I'm not sure it's been confirmed has it?





DotCommunist said:


> yes it has- cptn Jack is the face of Bo.



nah - Jack says he was the poster boy for the Time Agency / Boe Peninsula & got nicknamed 'the face of Boe', Dr. 10 and Rose jumped to the conclusion that meant he equals _the_ face of boe but it doesn't nessesarily  (at self nerd levels)


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> unlike the nestle conciousness which  just   makes you wan to eat kit kats



Or the nestor consciousness that tries to get you to cut your own throat. .


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> The herald two.


Hate World


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## fogbat (Jun 21, 2010)

Whale dort.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Harlot Wed.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Ah Wet Lord


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Alien Ma Pod


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## holteman (Jun 21, 2010)

Thank god River Song has done so many sex scenes...her arse is certainly keeping my attention


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 21, 2010)

anyone else notice that the crack was in the tardis' monitor in the eleventh hour even tho it didnt appear until river was trapped inside in the last ep ?


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> anyone else notice that the crack was in the tardis' monitor in the eleventh hour even tho it didnt appear until river was trapped inside in the last ep ?



Well that's a very good point. Are we sure it was the same monitor? Does the TARDIS have more than one?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 21, 2010)

its the same monitior , i went and checked


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

holteman said:


> Thank god River Song has done so many sex scenes...her arse is certainly keeping my attention



She's sex on a stick, that Alex Kingston


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## pigtails (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> She's sex on a stick, that Alex Kingston


you just know she's dirty


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 21, 2010)

I must be in a minority then, because she annoys the tits off me.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 21, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> anyone else notice that the crack was in the tardis' monitor in the eleventh hour even tho it didnt appear until river was trapped inside in the last ep ?



Also (and I must really stop getting so into this) I watched the 11th Hour again today, and in the hidden room where Prisoner Zero was, when Amy went in there, there was a box, and on the box was a sonic screwdriver. As far as I know River had a sonic didnt she, and she was also in prison, so has she escaped from prison and set about an elaborate scenario whereby she revisits the Dr in another timeline to stop her killing him? Which is not only why she has been hunting him down, but also gave him the coordinates to the graffiti'd cliff face which led him to Stonehenge. Which is where he has hinself been imprisoned.

/head hurty.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

pigtails said:


> you just know she's dirty



God, yes. She oozes dirty sex


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Also (and I must really stop getting so into this) I watched the 11th Hour again today, and in the hidden room where Prisoner Zero was, when Amy went in there, there was a box, and on the box was a sonic screwdriver. As far as I know River had a sonic didnt she, and she was also in prison, so has she escaped from prison and set about an elaborate scenario whereby she revisits the Dr in another timeline to stop her killing him? Which is not only why she has been hunting him down, but also gave him the coordinates to the graffiti'd cliff face which led him to Stonehenge. Which is where he has hinself been imprisoned.
> 
> /head hurty.



I don't know about PZ being RS, but people have long commented on how the sonic screwdriver was on the table/box when it had merely rolled under the door.


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## holteman (Jun 21, 2010)

pigtails said:


> you just know she's dirty



Dirty posh and confident.... i think im going to propose


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> She's sex on a stick, that Alex Kingston



I really don't get all this Kingston love. She seems nice enough but shes not all that is she? She looks a bit old and ragged to me. She looked better in this one than the last one.


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## holteman (Jun 21, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I really don't get all this Kingston love. She seems nice enough but shes not all that is she? She looks a bit old and ragged to me. She looked better in this one than the last one.



I'd love some Kingston love.....you just know that ass aint just for show


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## Stigmata (Jun 21, 2010)

Ok this is how I think the next episode will go down, apropos of nothing except a day of beard-stroking at work:

-Auton Rory will somehow bust the Doctor out of the Pandorica. He already mentioned it's a piece of piss to unlock it from the outside.

-Doctor will get the vortex manipulator (assuming River left it at the Roman camp) and visit Amy Pond at various points in her life.

-He'll discreetly prime her for something (a bit like in the end of Dark City). Perhaps with the Pandorica scenario being derived from her memories he'll plant something in her past that will become relevant.

-As for the Big Bad, the "Silence Will Fall" guy, I don't think it's going to be Omega or any other 'new' (as of this series) character. It's a bit late in the day to introduce another villain and build them up properly. I reckon that the TARDIS was under the control of an aspect (maybe a future incarnation- but not a regeneration) of the Doctor or Amy.

-Possibly it's not even an evil force... maybe the Silence is somehow the solution to the problem and not the cause.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I really don't get all this Kingston love. She seems nice enough but shes not all that is she? She looks a bit old and ragged to me. She looked better in this one than the last one.



For you: old and ragged; For me: experienced and dirty.

She's soft and pinchable, grabbable, smooshable, she has wicked curly hair, a sulty, sexy, slightly scary dirty knowing look, and I bet she's got a right dirty laugh.


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## Stigmata (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> God, yes. She oozes dirty sex



When she burgled the Royal Collection her catsuit made me a bit


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## AverageJoe (Jun 21, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> anyone else notice that the crack was in the tardis' monitor in the eleventh hour even tho it didnt appear until river was trapped inside in the last ep ?



Which would mean that episode 1 occurred after episode 12 (and presumably 13) as the crack was created in episode 12, but was already there in Episode 1.
And in Episode 1 the Tardis was crashed and broken. And on fire. 

So could it be that Episode 12 is actually where it all starts? Like Memento or something.

/head explodes


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## holteman (Jun 21, 2010)

*My soon to be wife...*


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Which would mean that episode 1 occurred after episode 12 (and presumably 13) as the crack was created in episode 12, but was already there in Episode 1.
> And in Episode 1 the Tardis was crashed and broken. And on fire.
> 
> So could it be that Episode 12 is actually where it all starts? Like Memento or something.
> ...



And that's why he took so long in getting back to her? Why he was late? He'd had a bit of trouble with a box.

But, but, but ... doesn't that mean they'll be trapped in an infinite loop?


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

holteman said:


>



Fuck me


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## AverageJoe (Jun 21, 2010)

vintage paw said:


> and that's why he took so long in getting back to her? Why he was late? He'd had a bit of trouble with a box.
> 
> But, but, but ... Doesn't that mean they'll be trapped in an infinite loop?



yes! No! I. Dont. Know! :d


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2010)

rollinder said:


> nah - Jack says he was the poster boy for the Time Agency / Boe Peninsula & got nicknamed 'the face of Boe', Dr. 10 and Rose jumped to the conclusion that meant he equals _the_ face of boe but it doesn't nessesarily  (at self nerd levels)



Yep, that's what I thought. 

According to Wikipedia RTD has been very careful to discourage other writers from confirming the link. He's obviously not sure himself.


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## emanymton (Jun 21, 2010)

rollinder said:


> nah - Jack says he was the poster boy for the Time Agency / Boe Peninsula & got nicknamed 'the face of Boe', Dr. 10 and Rose jumped to the conclusion that meant he equals _the_ face of boe but it doesn't nessesarily  (at self nerd levels)



If it makes you feel any better you can lose some nerd levels as it was Martha not Rose.


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## fieryjack (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I don't know about PZ being RS, but people have long commented on how the sonic screwdriver was on the table/box when it had merely rolled under the door.


was the point (and the most parsimonious explanation) not that it was on the box because Prisoner Zero had put it there rather than River having smuggled it somehow out of a prison? I mean, the thing was covered in slimy mucus.

*pause for comic effect*

it's Doctor Who, not Torchwood.


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## Stigmata (Jun 21, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> anyone else notice that the crack was in the tardis' monitor in the eleventh hour even tho it didnt appear until river was trapped inside in the last ep ?



In the Eleventh Hour it was just a signal on the monitor that briefly formed into the shape, it wasn't a physical crack.


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## fieryjack (Jun 21, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> In the Eleventh Hour it was just a signal on the monitor that briefly formed into the shape, it wasn't a physical crack.


was the crack not static on the screen whilst a sine wave-y type signal played around it? 
_edit* see what you mean: it didn't look much like a crack on the screen itself_


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## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2010)

missfran said:


> I must be in a minority then, because she annoys the tits off me.



The character is a bit annoying but she is still hawt.


----------



## innit (Jun 21, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The character is a bit annoying but she is still hawt.



The character is brilliant and she is meant to be a bit annoying, she's a bossy wife.

So Amy....

doesn't remember the Daleks
her parents are missing
her aunt is never seen or whereabouts accounted for
she has a room full of her childhood books and drawings
she has "too many rooms in her house"
lives in a two-storey house with a second flight of stairs going up from the first floor


And perception filters....

hide the room in Amy's house where Prisoner Zero hides for twelve years
are used by the vampires / Saturnynes
disguise the spaceship on Corden's roof

Other "perception"-y themed stuff -

Liz 10 wears a mask
Bracewell is disguised as a human
the angels' true forms cannot be perceived
hallucinogenic pollen
vincent has visions, and is the only one who can see the monster
the autons are disguised as humans

The only episodes that don't tie in neatly with the theme of perception are the two Silurian episodes, unless I'm just missing the link

I may stop overthinking this now


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes, and then it was just Amy waving at the end. Because Rory did exist before he died, but never existed after he died.



Ah - I never watched the second ep...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2010)

emanymton said:


> Martha not Rose.



I remember those two. Don't they seem super double shit now that new one is on the scene.


----------



## holteman (Jun 21, 2010)

innit said:


> The character is brilliant and she is meant to be a bit annoying, she's a bossy wife.




I find bossy women a massive turn on...my mrs is as bossy as they come....I'm sure Freud would have a field day


----------



## holteman (Jun 21, 2010)

innit said:


> So Amy....
> 
> doesn't remember the Daleks
> her parents are missing
> ...



It's going to turn out that this is all something to do with the Doctor aint it... after he first met her the tardis fucked up and suddenly she is grown up with no evidence of living past her childhood....


----------



## Augie March (Jun 21, 2010)

Ah yes. He left and then said he was coming right back, but ended up coming back years later instead. I bet that has something to do with it.


----------



## janeb (Jun 21, 2010)

Just watched this episode again. Awesome, matt is now my favourite dr, the last 5 mins, his dawning realisation and horror, outstanding. Almost scared to watch next week in case it doesn't live up to this


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 21, 2010)

janeb said:


> Just watched this episode again. Awesome, matt is now my favourite dr, the last 5 mins, his dawning realisation and horror, outstanding. Almost scared to watch next week in case it doesn't live up to this



Lets just hope its not an RTD style ending, but i think it will be.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 21, 2010)

janeb said:


> Just watched this episode again. Awesome, matt is now my favourite dr, the last 5 mins, his dawning realisation and horror, outstanding. Almost scared to watch next week in case it doesn't live up to this



Last episode was so good nothing will live up to it. As a new-ish convert to Dr Who this series has got me completely hooked. It has a good balance of seriousness, humour and intrigue.


----------



## janeb (Jun 21, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Lets just hope its not an RTD style ending, but i think it will be.



Don't even think that-thinking it mght make it true!


----------



## Santino (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm watching it again now to look for Clues.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 21, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Lets just hope its not an RTD style ending, but i think it will be.



I think as it's clearly going to have a substantial time travel element the story might end with some sort of reset. It's a natural conclusion for this sort of fiction.


----------



## Santino (Jun 21, 2010)

His tie is definitely red sometimes, and other times it looks sort of blue, but that could just be the lighting.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 21, 2010)

Not solving anything but...



> "There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. And nothing could stop it or hold it or... reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world. "
> 
> "How did it end up in there?"
> 
> ...



so - that stuff about 'nameless', 'blood of a billion galaxies', 'drops out of the sky'... he knows he's talking about himself. Must do - it's really very specific.  But i think he's the good wizard too.  has he crossed his own timeline to get him to this point?  is the doctor saying this speech actually a future doctor to the one who is surprised to be imprisoned?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 22, 2010)

right. when he says all that stuff his tie is very obviously red. then he goes behind the box, comes out much more confused, and his ie is so dark (no matter where he stands) that you can't make out colour - but is certainly more blue than red.  bugger - am going to need to check the dream episode to see whether blue was reality or red was.  but not yet. now i must continue my rewatch.

btw. river said earlier in the series 'i'll see you when the pandorica opens' because that was later in her timeline.  she'd already experienced this.  doesn't mean it will go exactly the same or even that she'll live... but implies there is a way through it that she knows and isn't too worried not to tell him.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 22, 2010)

I think Amy had the picture as the Doctor said there are always pictures like the ring. There were never any ducks in the duck pond because they no longer exist but a trace remains - the pond. The same maybe true of the extra rooms being the trace people who are gone. Another trace of them maybe the other Pond.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 22, 2010)

In the eleventh hour why does the camera focus on Rory's pens before the name badge? Why when she traps the doctor by the car does she wear her watch inside out out? Where do clues end and coincidences and errors begin?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 22, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> In the eleventh hour why does the camera focus on Rory's pens before the name badge? Why when she traps the doctor by the car does she wear her watch inside out out? Where do clues end and coincidences and errors begin?



This whole series contains, from beginning to end, everything that is needed, to explain itself; like some Blackpool Rock with "you need to remember, Amelia" in pink gooey letters writ throughout. I think.

Ponder that, while listening to the rather lovely


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm beginning to think the two Hartnell photos (library card and that machine) are more than just nods


----------



## cybertect (Jun 22, 2010)

innit said:


> Liz 10 wears a mask
> 
> ...
> 
> The only episodes that don't tie in neatly with the theme of perception are the two Silurian episodes, unless I'm just missing the link



The Silurians wore masks too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 22, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I remember those two. Don't they seem super double shit now that new one is on the scene.


Absolutely.  Amy is the best companion of New Who.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 22, 2010)

Santino said:


> His tie is definitely red sometimes, and other times it looks sort of blue, but that could just be the lighting.



I tried to get a good screen cap, but this was the best I could do. The second pic is when he is with Cleopatra and the first is when he is put into the Pandorica.

Not much use actually


----------



## cybertect (Jun 22, 2010)

innit said:


> Other "perception"-y themed stuff



BTW, did anyone else notice the Zygons getting a name check during the roll-call of the unlikely alliance in the last episode?

They were shape-shifters.


----------



## cybertect (Jun 22, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> the first is when he is put into the Pandorica.



I'd put that down to lighting. A red tie would look quite dark under blue light, as it does.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2010)

wiki said:
			
		

> In an unfilmed scene in Part Five of the never completed serial Shada, a Zygon was listed as being among the prisoners kept in the titular Time Lord prison


.

coincidence ?


----------



## The Master (Jun 22, 2010)

its gonna be crazy the last episode because all that is going on and i hope its all good.


----------



## Santino (Jun 22, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> I tried to get a good screen cap, but this was the best I could do. The second pic is when he is with Cleopatra and the first is when he is put into the Pandorica.
> 
> Not much use actually



I watched carefully and in some scenes the tie went from red to dark-purpley-blue in the same shot as the lighting changed, i.e. he moved about.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2010)

So do we think there are two doctors then? One that knows it's him being put in the Pandorica, and the one that is put in the Pandorica? And the person controlling the TARDIS while RS is in it is the former? Having RS in an episode reminds us we can assume some extra strange timey-wimey timeline crossing stuff. We've seen Amy and Rory waving at themselves, so we know 2 of the same people can be present in the same place and same timeline at the same time. 

Or it could be more pedestrian, and Rory breaks the doctor out of the Pandorica in a last ditch attempt at avenging Amy's death, and Amy was important because she needed to be able to recreate Rory to get the doctor out of the Pandorica.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 22, 2010)

River Song said "See you when the Pandorica opens". But she wasn't there when it opened was she? So will she be there when it opens again?


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 22, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Lets just hope its not an RTD style ending, but i think it will be.



i don't think you can get much more RTD than having the daleks AND cybermen AND autons AND sontarans etc  

but i quite enjoyed it, interesting juxtaposition of the universe having to be saved from the doctor.

not sure the previous 11 episodes have been worth sitting through to build up to the last 2 parter since they weren't particularly strong on their own but hopefully next week's will be a blinder


----------



## holteman (Jun 22, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> I tried to get a good screen cap, but this was the best I could do. The second pic is when he is with Cleopatra and the first is when he is put into the Pandorica.
> 
> Not much use actually



Same tie. with that blue light it looks dark...


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 22, 2010)

Yeah - I'm still convinced that there are 2 Dr's though, mainly because of the no jacket/jacket/no jacket bit in one of the episodes, although I reckon that when we see the last episode we'll all be going 'How did I miss that' like everyone did with the Da Vinci code -'its his *wife*???'


----------



## holteman (Jun 22, 2010)

Amy has to be causing the crack in time.... there is something wrong with her existence....Cracks appear where ever she goes. The original crack started on that date. After there first meeting everything started going weird... tardis fucks up, she is suddenly an adult with no history of growing up.....Amy is the answer...


Just interesting to see how they explain it and still keep her in the show.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 22, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Yeah - I'm still convinced that there are 2 Dr's though, mainly because of the no jacket/jacket/no jacket bit in one of the episodes, although I reckon that when we see the last episode we'll all be going 'How did I miss that' like everyone did with the Da Vinci code -'its his *wife*???'


wtf did you miss in the Da Vinci Code?


----------



## holteman (Jun 22, 2010)

Also... fucking annoying coalition....If they want to stop him, why not just fucking kill him... he was there with every evil in the universe there, why not kill him... problem over (in their mind) and universal domination with no one to keep stopping them.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 22, 2010)

holteman said:


> Also... fucking annoying coalition....If they want to stop him, why not just fucking kill him... he was there with every evil in the universe there, why not kill him... problem over (in their mind) and universal domination with no one to keep stopping them.



They're probably painfully aware that they've all tried killing him a billion times before to no avail.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 22, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're probably painfully aware that they've all tried killing him a billion times before to no avail.



It must be so disheartening to be a Who villain.

"_I've got him, there's no way he can possibly esca- oh..._" 

"_This time, this time for sure, I can- oh..._" 

"_I've covered every possibility, accounted for every varia- oh balls, there he goes again. Bugger all this, I'm off to be a space farmer._"


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 22, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're probably painfully aware that they've all tried killing him a billion times before to no avail.


Exactly.  They're not stupid.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 22, 2010)

He even got exterminated for real by a Dalek and that didn't work either.


----------



## holteman (Jun 22, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're probably painfully aware that they've all tried killing him a billion times before to no avail.



They must know he only has so many regenerations... ESP the darlek's!.. tie him up and shoot the fuck out of him for hours on end till he is brown bread...

Its paramount to a Bond film....."he are my secret plans.. now I'll just leave you to escape form this device"


----------



## Gromit (Jun 22, 2010)

holteman said:


> They must know he only has so many regenerations...


 
He reached them years ago but the series was still successful and so the writers rewrote how many he is allowed.

The only true way the Darleks can truly destroy the Doctor is to lower his TV ratings. They need to travel to this universe and exterminate his audience. Or launch a rival TV show to steal his audience.

I'm not sure what kind of show they'd be successful at? A game show where the losing contestants are EXTERMINATED. Actually I'd probably watch that over Who.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2010)

Pretty sure it has been 12 regenerations for ever.


----------



## holteman (Jun 22, 2010)

Gromit said:


> He reached them years ago but the series was still successful and so the writers rewrote how many he is allowed.
> 
> The only true way the Darleks can truly destroy the Doctor is to lower his TV ratings. They need to travel to this universe and exterminate his audience. Or launch a rival TV show to steal his audience.
> 
> I'm not sure what kind of show they'd be successful at? A game show where the losing contestants are EXTERMINATED. Actually I'd probably watch that over Who.



"Tonight on BB2, Davros travels to Kent where he helps a couple, redecorate their spare room in preperation for their new baby in 'Darlek design'.."


----------



## innit (Jun 22, 2010)

holteman said:


> "Tonight on BB2, Davros travels to Kent where he helps a couple, redecorate their spare room in preperation for their new baby in 'Darlek design'.."


----------



## Gromit (Jun 22, 2010)

holteman said:


> "Tonight on BB2, Davros travels to Kent where he helps a couple, redecorate their spare room in preperation for their new baby in 'Darlek design'.."


 
Tonight on the Clothes Show Gold Darlek will be telling us why big black knobbly bits are in.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 22, 2010)

*DALEK!*
You fools.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 22, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> *DALEK!*
> You fools.


I ignore it now.  They add Rs where there should be none, and omit them where there should be one! ("lawr and owdah").  Used to bother me, but not now.  I smile beatifically at it, like they were errant children.


----------



## belboid (Jun 22, 2010)

oh, i assumed they were doing it so as not to invoke payments for copyright infringement


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Pretty sure it has been 12 regenerations for ever.



Isn't the 12 regenerations limit artificially set by the Timelords? No more Timelords, no more limit... ??


----------



## holteman (Jun 22, 2010)

"welcome to a new series of 'exterminate'.... This series we will be following London's newest pest control expert Dalek Kahn around as he deals with cockroaches, rats and a time lord infestation in a second story flat in Brixton"


----------



## holteman (Jun 22, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> *DALEK!*
> You fools.



YEs ...sorry.... Dalek's.... annagram of Kaled's.......opps


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 22, 2010)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Isn't the 12 regenerations limit artificially set by the Timelords? No more Timelords, no more limit... ??



Strictly speaking, yeah but the Master has overcome that problem on several occasions...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 22, 2010)

jer said:


> Strictly speaking, yeah but the Master has overcome that problem on several occasions...



Well, exactly, so even more of a case for no limit.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 22, 2010)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Isn't the 12 regenerations limit artificially set by the Timelords? No more Timelords, no more limit... ??



The timelords dished out extra cycles. 
I'm sure the who writers can write off whatever they have to in a line. That or simply ignore it.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 22, 2010)

the masters broken the limit   but    then again  he's  been a cat person and a bit of green slime  so   meh


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 22, 2010)

That 12 regenerations isn't enough for The Master does kind of imply he's a bit of a clumsy sod.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 22, 2010)

Speaking of the Master, now he's free of the drums, is he going to turn to Good? Temporarily, of course.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 22, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> the masters broken the limit   but    then again  he's  been a cat person and a bit of green slime  so   meh



Ah but the master did his 12 then started robbing other bodies, then was given a new cycle by the timelords annnnnd . . . another body for helping out in the timewar.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 22, 2010)

Quartz said:


> Speaking of the Master, now he's free of the drums, is he going to turn to Good? Temporarily, of course.



I like a good master/doctor team up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2010)

He also stole alien power sources to keep his body going. Wasn't that what Keeper of Traken was about or am I wrong


----------



## belboid (Jun 22, 2010)

just re-watched the last one again, to make sure i haven't missed owt.  

bloody good stuff, i do especially the way it's blown out of the water those claiming there was no build up to the finale, and that KG can't act.  fules u all!!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> He also stole alien power sources to keep his body going. Wasn't that what Keeper of Traken was about or am I wrong



He nicked that blokes body in keeper of traken. Double lame because the trakenite already looked like Pertwees master and had a name that was a fucking anagram of 'Master'.

I think he might have been keeping himself alive until robbing the body with some traken magics. His tardis was that stone man thing.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2010)

KG can act. She can act a really shouty, annoying twat character really well.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 22, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> wtf did you miss in the Da Vinci Code?



No no no. Not me. (ok, yes me). But the whole shebang with the twist in the Da Vinci Code was that the person sitting to the left of jeebus wasnt a bloke - IT WAS A BURD - which to be fair to Dan Brown, was quite brilliant and made 200 million people worldwide buy the book.

I am expecting a similar level of OH MY GOD IT WAS THERE IN FRONT OF ME AND I NEVER SAW IT levels of facepalm from the last episode.

And then we all calm down and agree that it was quite clever.


----------



## belboid (Jun 22, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> KG can act. She can act a really shouty, annoying twat character really well.



Yup.  And can go through a pretty big range of emotions in two seconds as she 



Spoiler: this bit



realises she has a dead lover who isn't dead any more and who has just killed her



That was not the work of someone who justs pouts and is annoying.  You're just missing the subtelty of this series cos of the overblown big bright blatantless of the RTD days.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 22, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Pretty sure it has been 12 regenerations for ever.


except when they could "live forever barring accidents" (according to Troughton iirc)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 22, 2010)

rollinder said:


> except when they could "live forever barring accidents" (according to Troughton iirc)



Yes, but that implies not needing to use up regenerations.


----------



## Santino (Jun 22, 2010)

Maybe that was when the Timelords were all-powerful and Gallifrey still existed.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2010)

I think it was when the BBC were all powerful and getting rid of Who actors without fuss existed


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 22, 2010)

rollinder said:


> except when they could "live forever barring accidents" (according to Troughton iirc)



i think he was  just   being romantic  with  the  potential life span of a galifrayan 

that and perhaps commenting that no life is  free from accident


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 22, 2010)

I think whoever wrote that line of dialogue is probably qute embarrassed by it now


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 22, 2010)

nah  just chalk it up to artistic license...  on the doctors behalf

mind you i don't know the context  but i can imagine  him  doing in a grandfatherly way   trying to  bring over the  sheer vastness of a timelords life span  to  a companion


----------



## rollinder (Jun 22, 2010)

tbh it was the first time the Time Lords had even been invented/introduced and nobody'd got round to making up the rest of it yet. The Deadly Assassin was actually a retcon.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2010)

belboid said:


> Yup.  And can go through a pretty big range of emotions in two seconds as she
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's hard to catch the subtlety when someone is shouting and pouting at you all the time.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 22, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> It's hard to catch the subtlety when someone is shouting and pouting at you all the time.



Am I right in thinking that Amy is the sort of girl you would be intimidated by in real life?


----------



## hektik (Jun 23, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> That 12 regenerations isn't enough for The Master does kind of imply he's a bit of a clumsy sod.



to be fair, the doctor isn't that far behind him- he took care of his first incarnation, but he's fairly raced through the next 10. There was a good bit in Amy's choice where the dreamlord mentions how the doctor throws his life away carelessly - I'm guessing that if you were a timelord and you were fairly careful with your regenerations - maybe sitting in a library on gallifrey, reading up on some benign alien race, instead of running round the universe shouting at daleks/cybermen etc, you could live to a ripe old age pretty well.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

hektik said:


> to be fair, the doctor isn't that far behind him- he took care of his first incarnation, but he's fairly raced through the next 10.


Are you certain Hartnell was his first incarnation?  There may have been previous ones not documented by the show.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> It's hard to catch the subtlety when someone is shouting and pouting at you all the time.



try actually _watching_, your caricature of her performance is...well, just wrong.  Not even a matter of iterpretation or point orf view.  You're just completely wrong.


----------



## Doppelgänger (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Are you certain Hartnell was his first incarnation?  There may have been previous ones not documented by the show.




There is speculation in the Brain of Morbius that some of the images in the "mental battle" between the Doctor and Morbius may have in fact been earlier incarnations of the Doctor. Although it could be easily explained as being earlier versions of Morbius himself.


----------



## Santino (Jun 23, 2010)

Pond is a bit of a one-note character.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Are you certain Hartnell was his first incarnation?  There may have been previous ones not documented by the show.



I think it was mentioned somewhere that that is the case.  Which does mean that every carnation since is incredibly careless.  Going through ten regenerations in fifty years after version 1 lasts for 850 odd isn't exactly the stuff of geniuseseseses


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

Santino said:


> Pond is a bit of a one-note character.


Are people watching the same show?  She's the best companion so far.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Are you certain Hartnell was his first incarnation?  There may have been previous ones not documented by the show.



I think Matt Smith's Doctor explicitly referred to himself as number 11 in the previous episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I think Matt Smith's Doctor explicitly referred to himself as number 11 in the previous episode.


Ah, OK.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Are people watching the same show?  She's the best companion so far.



They're either not, or they're just looking at her legs.  Which, tbf, haven't shown a massive amount of emotinal range.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 23, 2010)

TBH even if KG was an out-of-tune-one-note-character, she gets my vote as a good Dr Companion.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2010)

Hartnell was deffo the first doctor. I don't care what fanfic speculations say the official line on this is that Hartnell was the 1st.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2010)

belboid said:


> I think it was mentioned somewhere that that is the case.  Which does mean that every carnation since is incredibly careless.  Going through ten regenerations in fifty years after version 1 lasts for 850 odd isn't exactly the stuff of geniuseseseses



in renegade Time Lord terms he's doing a sight better than the master. Or the Rani....they should bring her back for lols


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

the master had got through sevberal before we even saw him tho.  How many carnations were there before my old school chum got the job?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2010)

delgado-someone else-that creature thingy-TV movie Master-old bloke who turns into simms-simms

but by 'creature thingy' he had already used up his alloted 12 iirc


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

so at least he wore his out over centuries, whilst t'Doc manages just a few decades.  Bloody careless if you ask me


----------



## Santino (Jun 23, 2010)

That's lazy writing. It would be the easiest thing in the world to work in a mention that Tennant had spent 50 or 100 years taking it easy on Lethargia-4 between series. And who knows how long McCoy lasted?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2010)

The adventures we see on tv aren't his only adventures. Novels, radioplays and mentions to times and events we never see read or hear. So there.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

All this talk has got me wanting to see the first episode.  I have discovered it's part of a serial called _An Unearthly Child_, and comes in a DVD box set with 2 other serials, _The Daleks_ and a two parter, _The Edge of Destruction_.

So, by today's standards, are these any good?  Could I sit with my two children, aged 14 and 10, who have only seen Ecclescake, Ten-Inch and Smith, and enjoy them as programmes rather than curiosities?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The adventures we see on tv aren't his only adventures.


Rose and Captain Jack do mention events and places we didn't see.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The adventures we see on tv aren't his only adventures. Novels, radioplays and mentions to times and events we never see read or hear. So there.



yes, but he also, from time to time, mentions how old he is.  And that fits, pretty much, with the timeline as viewed by someone watching on telly.


----------



## cesare (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> All this talk has got me wanting to see the first episode.  I have discovered it's part of a serial called _An Unearthly Child_, and comes in a DVD box set with 2 other serials, _The Daleks_ and a two parter, _The Edge of Destruction_.
> 
> So, by today's standards, are these any good?  Could I sit with my two children, aged 14 and 10, who have only seen Ecclescake, Ten-Inch and Smith, and enjoy them as programmes rather than curiosities?




Have a wee look on-line and see what you think: http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...5x_the-daleks-part-13_shortfilms?from_flash=1


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

cesare said:


> Have a wee look on-line and see what you think: http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist...5x_the-daleks-part-13_shortfilms?from_flash=1


Cheers.  So curiosity only, then.   I'd still like to see the first episode, but I won't show the kids, I think it'd ruin the show for them.


----------



## cesare (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheers.  So curiosity only, then.   I'd still like to see the first episode, but I won't show the kids, I think it'd ruin the show for them.




It's probably on that site somewhere?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheers.  So curiosity only, then.   I'd still like to see the first episode, but I won't show the kids, I think it'd ruin the show for them.



They showed it back in the early 80s, when Tom Baker had left and we were waiting for Peter Davison to take over. Being such an uber fan at the time, I couldn't wait to see it.

But I could not sit through any of them nowadays. I'm still struggling with the Talons of Weng Chiang at the moment. I mean, it scared me as a kid and there's some wonderful characterisations there but it comes across a bit dodgy towards the Chinese in it...

I think the only way I can relive really old Who is probably by novel form.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> I think the only way I can relive really old Who is probably by novel form.



just watch the commentaries, they're usually quite amusing as well as interesting and informative.


----------



## Cid (Jun 23, 2010)

Santino said:


> That's lazy writing. It would be the easiest thing in the world to work in a mention that Tennant had spent 50 or 100 years taking it easy on Lethargia-4 between series. And who knows how long McCoy lasted?



He does take a holiday at one point doesn't he? Turns up at the start of one of the episodes featuring the Ood. Dunno... Feel too nerdy already.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 23, 2010)

talking of nerdy , i was talking to my cousin last night who is a total starwars fanboy saying ive posted on a forum bout dr who and he laughed in my face


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> All this talk has got me wanting to see the first episode.  I have discovered it's part of a serial called _An Unearthly Child_, and comes in a DVD box set with 2 other serials, _The Daleks_ and a two parter, _The Edge of Destruction_.
> 
> So, by today's standards, are these any good?  Could I sit with my two children, aged 14 and 10, who have only seen Ecclescake, Ten-Inch and Smith, and enjoy them as programmes rather than curiosities?



I would sadly have to say no. 
I love the old who but have trouble watching Hartnels adventures.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> But I could not sit through any of them nowadays. I'm still struggling with the Talons of Weng Chiang at the moment. I mean, it scared me as a kid and there's some wonderful characterisations there but it comes across a bit dodgy towards the Chinese in it...
> .



I don't know why that one gets so much praise, it bored me stupid.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> I think the only way I can relive really old Who is probably by novel form.



I can only really bare them with the production notes on. I have yet to do any audio commentaries.


----------



## nicksonic (Jun 23, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I can only really bare them with the production notes on. *I have yet to do any audio commentaries.*



you're missing out!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 23, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I can only really bare them with the production notes on. *I have yet to do any audio commentaries*.



I look fwd to hearing your commentaries


----------



## Iguana (Jun 23, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Am I right in thinking that Amy is the sort of girl you would be intimidated by in real life?



Intimidated by what?  If I knew someone like that in real life I'd avoid her as much as possible as she's extremely annoying and clearly mentally challenged.  Perhaps it's the way she's playing it due to whatever Saturday's reveal will be, but there is just something not right about her.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 23, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Intimidated by what?  If I knew someone like that in real life I'd avoid her as much as possible as she's extremely annoying and clearly mentally challenged.  Perhaps it's the way she's playing it due to whatever Saturday's reveal will be, but there is just something not right about her.



I hope the reveal next week is a re-cap of last week followed by a message "the universe ended last week, dick" then the opening credits, 40 minutes of silence then the end credits. As for the doctors age I think he was 450 at the start of Tomb of the Cybermen so there are lots of unseen adventures especially when he was travelling alone or with an alien. He is 900 in fathers day and has aged at the pace of the show which is annoying. No wonder Ten was so upset to go as on average the other doctors would have lived for over 50 years and he got around 4.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> I look fwd to hearing your commentaries



Now wouldn't that be a treat. 

We could all get together over a few fingers and record our own. 
In fact that reminds me, I tend to have to be half cut before I even feel like watching an old who DVD at all. 
It's almost like a chore and yet I keep coming back for more. I have just counted 40 DVDs on my shelf!! It can't be true.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 23, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Now wouldn't that be a treat.
> 
> We could all get together over a few fingers and record our own.
> In fact that reminds me, I tend to have to be half cut before I even feel like watching an old who DVD at all.
> It's almost like a chore and yet I keep coming back for more. I have just counted 40 DVDs on my shelf!! It can't be true.



LOL, there's a project for the urban fanboys to get into. I think that could be good fun


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> We could all get together over a few fingers and record our own.


I've read that a few times, and I'm still having trouble.  We could whaty?


----------



## Doppelgänger (Jun 23, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> I hope the reveal next week is a re-cap of last week followed by a message "the universe ended last week, dick" then the opening credits, 40 minutes of silence then the end credits. As for the doctors age I think he was 450 at the start of Tomb of the Cybermen so there are lots of unseen adventures especially when he was travelling alone or with an alien. He is 900 in fathers day and has aged at the pace of the show which is annoying. No wonder Ten was so upset to go as on average the other doctors would have lived for over 50 years and he got around 4.



Problem is the show is quite inconsistent,

Tomb of the Cybermen he is 450; 
Brain of Morbius he is 749;
Ribos Operation he is 759;
Revelation of the Daleks he is 900;
Voyage of the Damned he is 903
End of Time he is 906
Flesh and Stone he is 907

Pretty rubbish really. I reckon he should be at least 1,200


----------



## Santino (Jun 23, 2010)

Tennant had all that artificial aging done to him by The Master though.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> I've read that a few times, and I'm still having trouble.  We could whaty?


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_ounces_does_a_finger_of_whiskey_equal


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_ounces_does_a_finger_of_whiskey_equal


It's a measure of whisky?  Slainte.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Problem is the show is quite inconsistent,
> 
> Tomb of the Cybermen he is 450;
> Brain of Morbius he is 749;
> ...



over 1000 according to one story too


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

He's a _time traveller_!


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

only relatively


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

Bound to get confused, though.  Especially if he sees the same birthday several times.


----------



## Doppelgänger (Jun 23, 2010)

Santino said:


> Tennant had all that artificial aging done to him by The Master though.



Wasn't that all undone though by the power magical love or some such bollox?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Wasn't that all undone though by the power magical love or some such bollox?



It was by everyone believing in the doctor, all over the world. Which was shit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Wasn't that all undone though by the power magical love or some such bollox?


That was the worst couple of episodes in living memory.


----------



## Doppelgänger (Jun 23, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> It was by everyone believing in the doctor, all over the world. Which was shit.



Yeah, that was it. You're right it was shite.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 23, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Yeah, that was it. You're right it was shite.



No, it was psychic energy, man. Love changes everything.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> No, it was psychic energy, man. Love changes everything.


Can a few of you focus on loving my bank balance, then?  No don't, actually.  The thought of it makes me want to retch.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> Can a few of you focus on loving my bank balance, then?  No don't, actually.  The thought of it makes me want to retch.



Give me your wad and I will love it without prejudice.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> Give me your wad and I will love it without prejudice.


It's not so much a wad as a ...a ... another thing that's small.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> It's not so much a wad as a ...a ... another thing that's small.



Size isn't everything, my friend


----------



## Doppelgänger (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> Size isn't everything, my friend



Yeah, look at the TARDIS, bigger on the inside innit.........


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 23, 2010)

Doppelgänger said:


> Yeah, look at the TARDIS, bigger on the inside innit.........



Yeah but there's too much wheezing and groaning there...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> Yeah but there's too much wheezing and groaning there...


It's me and River.


----------



## Santino (Jun 23, 2010)

I did like that speech The Master did on the telly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2010)

Simms was a scene stealer. In maany ways it mad his even-more-insane return sightly dissapointing


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> That was the worst couple of episodes in living memory.



Like most of Davis' two parters, the set up was pretty good (apart from Simm, dreadful bit of casting that was) and the resolution was fucking dire.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

bog off, Simm was brilliant.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2010)

Point of order: Those who have only seen New Who are certainly not qualified to decide which is the shittest ever Who story.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

nor are those too young to have watched them when they were actually on in the first place.

otherwise you end up saying some McCoy stories weren't shit


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 23, 2010)

danny la rouge said:


> It's a measure of whisky?  Slainte.



Campai


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 23, 2010)

belboid said:


> over 1000 according to one story too



I think he was 1013 in the 8th doctor novel Vampire Science. A fair few years since I read it though. 

In the Simm episode the master made him appear his age not changed it. I think the re-set ending might be the answer. In the Voyage of the Damned he says he is 903 which suggests he doesn't count the year that never was. The time war is in a time lock and removed from history so who knows how many years he lived during it that he has now deducted from the total. The absence of the time lord has probably changed many events in classic who (despite their supposed non-interference) and therefore changed his idea of his age.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 23, 2010)

jer said:


> I'm still struggling with the Talons of Weng Chiang at the moment.



Their first album is dah *bomb*


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2010)

belboid said:


> bog off, Simm was brilliant.


Simm and Tennant were badly let down.


----------



## The Master (Jun 24, 2010)

Simm 's was wasted in Doctor Who
he was great but not alot of screen time due to what they did with the Master


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 24, 2010)

Not long to go now.

Have a picture or three


----------



## innit (Jun 24, 2010)

I am away this weekend, I won't see it until Sunday *sob*


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 24, 2010)

stay away from here on sat night then


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 24, 2010)

Moffat reckons the Doctor is bullshitting whenever he says how old he is. It's not the easiest thing to keep track of under the circumstances, and would he really bother?


----------



## Santino (Jun 25, 2010)

The trailer for the finale isn't giving away a single shot of the actual programme.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 25, 2010)

there is however a 1 minute sneak peak out there . which doesnt really give away anything


----------



## Echo Base (Jun 25, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Not long to go now.
> 
> Have a picture or three




Cool.


----------



## hektik (Jun 25, 2010)

innit said:


> I am away this weekend, I won't see it until Sunday *sob*



i am at a BBQ for my aunt's 50th birthday on saturday: I shall be watching it as soon as I get home, no matter what time I get there!


----------



## The Master (Jun 25, 2010)

hektik said:


> i am at a BBQ for my aunt's 50th birthday on saturday: I shall be watching it as soon as I get home, no matter what time I get there!



just hide in a corner with the telly while everybody is having the BBQ


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2010)

The Pandorica will open and Silence will fall


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> The Pandorica will open and Silence will fall



Only a few hours to go.....


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 26, 2010)

Isn't it wonderful when you invest some time in a programme and it pays you back with a lovely expectancy like today. 

I'm going into Edinburgh for pub/football/casino/meal with some friends but I'm taping it and watching it when I come back.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2010)

I re-watched last weeks last night. Can't wait


----------



## Leafster (Jun 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I re-watched last weeks last night. Can't wait


I re-watched the whole series this week  and I'm still none the wiser about what might happen tonight!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 26, 2010)

I watched the the first episode of the the two doctors and almost died of boredom.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I watched the the first episode of the the two doctors and almost died of boredom.



_You are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy, when skies are grey..._


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 26, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I watched the the first episode of the the two doctors and almost died of boredom.



I've just finished watching the whole lot - every single story since 1963 and yes, that era was a struggle to get through.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 26, 2010)

wtf?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 26, 2010)

nice


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 26, 2010)

That was way cool


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 26, 2010)

Only word I can think of to describe that episode: mindfuck!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 26, 2010)

"Are you a magician?"


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 26, 2010)

He's right btw, fezes ARE cool.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 26, 2010)

Now thats how to do a finale Mr Davies !!!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 26, 2010)

missfran said:


> He's right btw, fezes ARE cool.



Only if you're Tommy Cooper.

I'm pleased they haven't wrapped it all up neat & tidy and there's still questions to be answered...


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Jun 26, 2010)

Enjoyable even though I couldn't work out what was going on for most of it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2010)

Rory is remarkably restrained for a man who is constantly upstaged by a time traveling alien. Even if he did give the Doctor a slap.


----------



## Espresso (Jun 26, 2010)

I can see that I'll have to watch that again. It was all very involved and involving, but there's no way I got the full gist. 
This was me for a lot of it  -


----------



## spirals (Jun 26, 2010)

I enjoyed that


----------



## holteman (Jun 26, 2010)

hmmmm not sure.....


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> Now thats how to do a finale Mr Davies !!!



Yeah, I thought it a nicely restrained piece- eschewed over sentimental nonsense and played around nicely with the central concept. That this is a fucking time traveller, think what you could do with that ability, and moffat did.

I felt the crusty-daleks were shoehorned in for a bit of good old whovian running around and dramatic tension but other than that it was nicely paced even though I did exclaim 'AMY POND!' when she cussed down her dad as he was mid-speech.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 26, 2010)

So it turns out that there was something to the jacket / non-jacket thin


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I felt the crusty-daleks were shoehorned in for a bit of good old whovian running around and dramatic tension



Oddly enough, they're an improvement, compared to a few weeks back...


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 26, 2010)

jer said:


> Oddly enough, they're an improvement, compared to a few weeks back...



I can't imagine anyone taking the dulux daleks seriously.

Crusty daleks FTW.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 26, 2010)

missfran said:


> He's right btw, fezes ARE cool.









Damn right.


----------



## teecee (Jun 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> So it turns out that there was something to the jacket / non-jacket thin



And I thought that was just  a bunch  of internet sadoes being too anal for their own good, teach me to be cynical


----------



## zoooo (Jun 26, 2010)

She's still a slapper though! Even after marriage.
'We haven't snogged in the bushes yet'.
Erk.


----------



## Santino (Jun 26, 2010)

I was right about the bow-ties though.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 26, 2010)

teecee said:


> And I thought that was just  a bunch  of internet sadoes being too anal for their own good, teach me to be cynical



That was my assumption, too


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Damn right.



massive forehead is massive


----------



## fogbat (Jun 26, 2010)

My giant brain requires a roomy enclosure.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 26, 2010)

fogbat said:


> My giant brain requires a roomy enclosure.






Thinks of that episode of Blake's 7 with the huge, pulsating brain and shivers


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 26, 2010)

Shit but somehow fairly enjoyable.

Too much Dr magic for my liking.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 26, 2010)

What a huge steaming pile of bullshit. Still, Amy Pond is always worth watching.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 26, 2010)

goldenecitrone said:


> What a huge steaming pile of bullshit. Still, Amy Pond is always worth watching.



Ah, here come the naysayers and killjoys. They had to think about it for a while, mind


----------



## Santino (Jun 26, 2010)

goldenecitrone said:


> What a huge steaming pile of bullshit. Still, Amy Pond is always worth watching.



Paedo.


----------



## Santino (Jun 26, 2010)

Hang on... how did he get his TARDIS back?


----------



## Quartz (Jun 26, 2010)

It left me thoroughly confused, possibly because I missed the critical bit of Amy's reception. Is Rory still part Auton? Is he still the same Rory who waited 2000 years?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 26, 2010)

Santino said:


> Paedo.



Feeder.


----------



## Santino (Jun 26, 2010)

Quartz said:


> It left me thoroughly confused, possibly because I missed the critical bit of Amy's reception. Is Rory still part Auton? Is he still the same Rory who waited 2000 years?



The whole universe was re-constituted based on the presence of Amy's molecules in the Pandoricum, which carried a model of the whole universe in them (see Leibniz or Douglas Adams for details). Because she remembered Rory, including the plastic version of him, all those memories are now part of him.


----------



## Santino (Jun 26, 2010)

goldenecitrone said:


> Feeder.



Beg pardon?


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 26, 2010)

Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.

Thats *genuis* writing.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 26, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.
> 
> Thats *genuis* writing.



It was quite clever, wasn't it


----------



## TAE (Jun 26, 2010)

What a fantastic series finale !!! Totally blown away. 

The lead up to the beginning-credits where it turns out Amy is in the box, not the doctor, and she sais: "Now it gets complicated" was pure class. 




Quartz said:


> It left me thoroughly confused, possibly because I missed the critical bit of Amy's reception. Is Rory still part Auton? Is he still the same Rory who waited 2000 years?



As I understand it, history has completely reverted to how it should have been in the 1st place: Amy has parents and marries the human Rory etc. 

Also loved the Dr introducing himself at the wedding as Amy's imaginary friend.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 26, 2010)

So, who was the voice in the Tardis? And what was the meaning of 'Silence will fall'?


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 26, 2010)

Quartz said:


> So, who was the voice in the Tardis? And what was the meaning of 'Silence will fall'?



I presumed silence was the nothingness of the universe. The voice? I dunno


----------



## zoooo (Jun 26, 2010)

I think that part of the story is carrying on into the next series.
(So I've heard, anyway.)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2010)

Song needs to stop saying 'spoilers' in that cock et ish tone. She is a fine figure of a woman but that 'spoilers' is getting on my wick.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 27, 2010)

Quartz said:


> So, who was the voice in the Tardis? And what was the meaning of 'Silence will fall'?



Yer not supposed to know about that, yet.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 27, 2010)

Excellent finale, for me the best one so far,I've enjoyed this series a lot more this year, not that I haven't enjoyed the previous ones, they just got predictably over-emotional at times.
This series has resonated more with my memories of old who which is why I'm more comfortable with it.
Well done to moffet and his team,it was fun.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 27, 2010)

Don't worry Your Majesty, we're on our way.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 27, 2010)

Fucking hell, I'd wait 2000 years for you too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/episodes/b00sxfc7/galleries/wedding


----------



## cesare (Jun 27, 2010)

I liked that finale! It was just enough to explain lots of things but open enough for next series.

No crying (unlike the Van Gogh one  ) and was entertaining/edge of the seat. What more could you ask for?


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 27, 2010)

ginger_syn said:


> Excellent finale, for me the best one so far,I've enjoyed this series a lot more this year, not that I haven't enjoyed the previous ones, they just got predictably over-emotional at times.
> This series has resonated more with my memories of old who which is why I'm more comfortable with it.
> Well done to moffet and his team,it was fun.



Yeah, I really enjoyed the first couple of RTD series, but when it became obvious that the emotive sledgehammer was coming out every bloody time it put me off. 

This series has been great. Some intriguing episodes playing with time and dimensions, some simple scary ones and really no major fails. I didn't much like the end of the vampire episode, but even that had a good build up and though it was quite good I was a bit disapointed the stone angels returned, but that said, kids everywhere were thrilled. Oh, hang on, the daleks in ww2 was a bit meh, but tbh, one meh episode in all is a great record

I loved the whale in space one, the finale, the dream doctor thing and think Matt Smith is absolutely fantastic. I also loved the overall feel of less CGI and more atmosphere. Some moments were right of old Who - like the underground tunnels of the silurians, they were just rubbish, but oddly, more atmospheric for it. 

A cracking series all in all.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 27, 2010)

Moffat said in confidential that the next series is going to be about just who River song is and the  ' Silence '. 

I really like that its a multi series arc


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 27, 2010)

I liked it. I liked it a lot. And I think Matt Smith is an excellent doctor, very otherworldly which is just what it needs.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 27, 2010)

We have just seen this here and it was great. Mrs D cried! She said that she was pleased Amy and the Dr hadn't died but 'was disappointed that Amy had married that twonk, you can't have the Doctor dying, it's like no Woollies, just wrong'. 

So when is the next series due out?


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 27, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Song needs to stop saying 'spoilers' in that cock et ish tone. She is a fine figure of a woman but that 'spoilers' is getting on my wick.



Coquettish. And I still want to punch her every time she's on-screen. I'd like her more if she was a bit more cynical and hard-bitten and a bit less "Oh darling, I love and know you so well but I'm going to tragically ruin your life in some way pout pout hands on hips pout " every. single. time. we see her.


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 27, 2010)

On the other hand, Matt Smith has gone from "Yikes, his face is weird and wrong" to "I would, but only if he keeps the bowtie on".


----------



## Ms T (Jun 27, 2010)

I love Alex Kingston.  And I like that they've gone for a male and female assistant combo - can't remember the last time that happened.  Back in the sixties?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 27, 2010)

missfran said:


> On the other hand, Matt Smith has gone from "Yikes, his face is weird and wrong" to "I would, but only if he keeps the bowtie on".



 I have the same feeling "No way...never...well...actually yes. I would"


----------



## London_Calling (Jun 27, 2010)

The thing about Ms Pond is she's young, like a graduate is at the start of a career in management or something. Not yer finished article, learning her trade. Can't be avoided. Depth to follow.

Who knows, in 35-40 years she might act like a 62- year old Helen Mirren.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 27, 2010)

Moffatt is a genius. And River Song is


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2010)

missfran said:


> Coquettish. And I still want to punch her every time she's on-screen. I'd like her more if she was a bit more cynical and hard-bitten and a bit less "Oh darling, I love and know you so well but I'm going to tragically ruin your life in some way pout pout hands on hips pout " every. single. time. we see her.



I know how to spell it, I was emphasising the 'cock' sound


----------



## London_Calling (Jun 27, 2010)

How apropos . . ., dahling.


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 27, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I know how to spell it, I was emphasising the 'cock' sound



Oh. I see what you did there. Well done.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 27, 2010)

AverageJoe said:


> Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.
> 
> Thats *genuis* writing.



Apart from the new bit.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> Hang on... how did he get his TARDIS back?



For no good reason, after exploding in a massive ball of fire he sort of went magically back in time except he didn't. Amy remembered him, even though they said it would be impossible, and again, as if by magic, he came back into existence. lazy shit writing can fix anything.


----------



## pigtails (Jun 27, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Apart from the new bit.



but it was new cause it rebuilt itself at the start of the series - I think!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 27, 2010)

pigtails said:


> but it was new cause it rebuilt itself at the start of the series - I think!



Then what's the old bit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2010)

I bet we have to wait till fucking christmas for more who


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jun 27, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Then what's the old bit.



I thought the Tardis was just the blue bit - you could see it as that i think.

Good line though. Clever - liked the Richard Dawkins one as well (or was that last weeks?)


----------



## pigtails (Jun 27, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Then what's the old bit.



It's still old just with new bits!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 27, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I bet we have to wait till fucking christmas for more who



That's not a bet I would take seeing as thats exactly what they said at the end of last nights episode.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 27, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> I thought the Tardis was just the blue bit - you could see it as that i think.
> 
> Good line though. Clever - liked the Richard Dawkins one as well (or was that last weeks?)



Was this weeks - the line about the star cults that the Aunt didn't want Amy to join. 

I laughed at the Mr Pond bit.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2010)

enjoyed that

the ending was  a bit  OTT    and a bit close to the crap of  using the power of love to fix things    but  it  fell withing exceptable  levels  of  crapness  due  to the overall nice work displayed in the two episodes

i'd have hoped rory got hjis memory of waiting  back... that could  be used nicly in the  upcoming series  with any thing  set  on earth in the last 2000 years   he  could  display knowledge of it...    or at the very least  could weild a gladius a bit better than that  broom


----------



## killer b (Jun 27, 2010)

i loved that. nice one.


----------



## BigTom (Jun 27, 2010)

BlueSquareThing said:


> I thought the Tardis was just the blue bit - you could see it as that i think.



a few scenes before the doctor told amy (i think) that he stole, well borrowed, the tardis, so it's the borrowed bit as well.. is the stolen/borrowed tardis thing from old who or has moffatt put that in? 
I enjoyed the two parter, much more than RTDs finales anyway, been a decent series overall.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 27, 2010)

BigTom said:


> is the stolen/borrowed tardis thing from old who or has moffatt put that in? l.



It's always been the case.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2010)

the stolen tardis  is  classic who...  he nicked an old type 40  tadis....   basically  the  time lord equivelent of hotwiring a robin reliant

and  the old/new thing  could  just be refering to the  time travel element... it


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 27, 2010)

I know what they were trying to say and how they can justify it, but they are just dicks.


----------



## Santino (Jun 27, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I know what they were trying to say and how they can justify it, but they are just dicks.



Not like you to be so grumpy about a popular and successful television programme, AS. What's up?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2010)

i was with it    right to the  point  where  he stepped  through the crack...    after that  it was just  total bullshit story wise

it would have been better i think  to show  him  trapped  with a battered tardis  on the other side of the crack.. in the void

and  then  during  the  remebering  scene   you see a glimmer of light in the void   which  widens  and becomes... a crack     then the doctor runs to the console   and the  broken battered tadis  slow   comes back to life  as   the light from the crack surounds it  like  it  did  rory   in the sularian episode

 that  would have been much better and  would have only cost  a few  moments  from the disco scene   etc


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> Not like you to be so grumpy about a popular and successful television programme, AS. What's up?



i fully support anybodys  right to be narky about dodgy writing


----------



## magneze (Jun 27, 2010)

I lost the story pretty early on.

So, at the end of the last episode, the Doctor was in the Pandorica surrounded by all his enemies from history. Start of this episode, erm, Amy is in the Pandorica and his enemies has disappeared. WTF? Where did the Cybermen go? Where did the Sontarans go?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2010)

I thought that was fine while I was watching it, if sentimental and containing River Song who I just wanted to drown the whole time, but to be honest, the more I think about it the more it's going to annoy me, I can tell.


----------



## Santino (Jun 27, 2010)

magneze said:


> I lost the story pretty early on.
> 
> So, at the end of the last episode, the Doctor was in the Pandorica surrounded by all his enemies from history. Start of this episode, erm, Amy is in the Pandorica and his enemies has disappeared. WTF? Where did the Cybermen go? Where did the Sontarans go?



They were erased from history because most of the universe had never existed. That's a fair enough plot point.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2010)

i belive the moment  the doctor was sealed in the padorica  was the moment  when the cracks   fully opened  and  the universe ceased to have existed   all the stars went out  (not sure why exactly)     earth   being at the centre  of the whole  thing  was  sorta the last to go ...  and even though the sun had gone out  it  was light  by the  exploding tardis   (i would presumes  as there was no stars  it  means  that   even the other planets were gone  leaving only the earth and the exploding tardis  in a tiny bubble of time )

however although the previous univese had ceased to have existed  the inside of the padoric was protected even against the power of the cracks


to behonest the story doesn't hold  together teribly  well... especially  the ending...  but  it is at least  waaaaaay  better than the RTD specials


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2010)

I wish they wouldn't use the "erased from space and time, never even existed" gimmick because it's without exception always done really craply.


----------



## killer b (Jun 27, 2010)

It doesn't hold together at all tbh. But who cares? It was wildly entertaining...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> to behonest the story doesn't hold  together teribly  well... especially  the ending...  but  it is at least  waaaaaay  better than the RTD specials



yes



> <me> I dunno, we don't need a whole RTD SFX Trifle every time.



But that really shouldn't be the standard by which we judge decent scifi.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 27, 2010)

And now no Doctor until Christmas <sniff>. I wish they'd do a Halloween horror special or something.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 27, 2010)

And the Christmas ones are always shit, of course. Kylie. Ugh.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2010)

don't we get a Children in need short before then? other than phoning in pledges you have no intention of hounoring Doctor Who is the only good thing about that evening of past-it comedians and images of starving kids.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 27, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Then what's the old bit.



rewatching now - when he's telling amelia about the tardis he says 'brand new and ancient at the same time..."


----------



## janeb (Jun 27, 2010)

Just watched it, don't fully understand what happened but really enjoyed it. Esp amy and rory. And who is river? Rani? Loved that there are unresolved issues for next series


----------



## fogbat (Jun 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> Not like you to be so grumpy about a popular and successful television programme, AS. What's up?



lolzers.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 28, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i fully support anybodys  right to be narky about dodgy writing



What dodgy writing?


----------



## Strumpet (Jun 28, 2010)

Just iPlayered. Loooooooooooooooooved it. Great ending with things to continue on. Can't wait to learn all about River Song. 



AverageJoe said:


> Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. Thats *genuis* writing.


I loved that 



TAE said:


> The lead up to the beginning-credits where it turns out Amy is in the box, not the doctor, and she sais: "Now it gets complicated" was pure class. .


Heh yup 



dessiato said:


> So when is the next series due out?


Christmas 



DotCommunist said:


> I bet we have to wait till fucking christmas for more who


Yep


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jun 28, 2010)

i right enjoyed that.. No Dr. Who fanatic.. but kept the two to watch together...
made much more sense that way... I hate to wait a week for second parts..

Another generation of fecked up kids! Bring magic Magic Roundabout....


----------



## The Master (Jun 28, 2010)

well christmas is the 'christmas special'
then it will be March next year as it has been the past number of years


----------



## holteman (Jun 28, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> For no good reason, after exploding in a massive ball of fire he sort of went magically back in time except he didn't. Amy remembered him, even though they said it would be impossible, and again, as if by magic, he came back into existence. lazy shit writing can fix anything.



After watching tiwce and thinking hard, i have come down on the side of not really liking it... not as soppy as previous end of series crap.. but still a bit....well i just hate it when everything works out and her rememberin him annoyed me... could have ended it properly but pussied out


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 28, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> rewatching now - when he's telling amelia about the tardis he says 'brand new and ancient at the same time..."



Like I said, shit writing can solve any problems.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 28, 2010)

its a family show so youre not going to get shakepearian levels of writing, remember its got to have a fluffy resolution for the kids not us sad 30 sometihngs who like to pick it apart.

I think people sometimes miss that point and lose the enjoyment 

*shrugs*


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 28, 2010)

noooooooooooooooooooooo

bad boy  go to your room

family show and fluffyness does not excuse shit  writing

i do have  some  sympathy for the writers due to the time limit   in the shows   (15 more minuites  could  have made for a lot more explanation) but  the for kids  excuse does not wash   writing for kids  can be good and fluffy at  the same time... moffat  can do it   it just  that this episode was not his best

i enjoyed it   but  i will hjapply point out the flaws


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 28, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> noooooooooooooooooooooo
> 
> bad boy  go to your room
> 
> ...



LOL 

but I didnt actually think the writing was all that shit , dunno if that was cause i didnt take it too seriously and took if for what I this it was , entertaining family nonsense


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2010)

it was a bit cop-outie on rewatch but not RTD level. And they are writing science fantasy so really, fairytale finishes can be excused so long as the don't suck balls. And this did not suck balls.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

Load of old pants, quite frankly. Terrible series finale. Plot holes everywhere, more _deus ex machina_ than Rose taking the Tardis in her head and wiping out the Daleks. Poor. Hopefully the next series concentrating on The Silence, along with more River Song, will be an improvement.

I do like Smith's version of the Dr tho.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm going to torrent Moll Flanders later, as I recall it being an excellent story with lots of pathos and plotting to enjoy. One handed.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

Rip that bodice, dotty.


----------



## Echo Base (Jun 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm going to torrent Moll Flanders later, as I recall it being an excellent story with lots of pathos and plotting to enjoy. One handed.



There is but one very good reason to watch the film Essex Boys starring Sean Bean and Alex Kingston. Its about halway through. Recommended.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 28, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> its a family show so youre not going to get shakepearian levels of writing, remember its got to have a fluffy resolution for the kids not us sad 30 sometihngs who like to pick it apart.
> 
> I think people sometimes miss that point and lose the enjoyment
> 
> *shrugs*



Just because it is a family show doesn't mean it has to have lazy writers. Its a big show that rakes in lots of viewers, surely they can write something that doesn't involve magic and the power of love. Jesus. 

Dr who has always been a family show but it never had this level of mush and magic bollocks. There are plenty of family films and TV shows that are well written and work on levels that all ages can enjoy. It's obvious that Dr Who is aiming for this but falls a bit short for me.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm going to torrent Moll Flanders later, as I recall it being an excellent story with lots of pathos and plotting to enjoy. One handed.



 ....ooh, hang on isn't Daniel Craig in that too? *loosens bodice*


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 28, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Load of old pants, quite frankly. Terrible series finale. Plot holes everywhere, more _deus ex machina_ than Rose taking the Tardis in her head and wiping out the Daleks. Poor. Hopefully the next series concentrating on The Silence, along with more River Song, will be an improvement.
> 
> I do like Smith's version of the Dr tho.



Wouldn't go as far as to say it was terrible, but your response is similar to mine. Total cop-out. If everything ever can be solved by the doctor zipping back to tell himself then what's the freaking point of ever being in a tight spot?

Now, someone tell me if I'm right or wrong: in the first weeping angels episode with Tennant, didn't the doctor explain why he couldn't zip around like that in time to tell himself shit? Or maybe I just inferred it.

Anyway, I have an intense, great, and immense loathing for Moffatt. He's a cunt of the highest order with his sexist bullshit he rolls out in Confidential. CUNT.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

If you're going to write SF with the whole 'human emotion can save the galaxy' type guff, at least make it good guff. The final ep was just mediocre.



> If everything ever can be solved by the doctor zipping back to tell himself then what's the freaking point of ever being in a tight spot?
> 
> Now, someone tell me if I'm right or wrong: in the first weeping angels episode with Tennant, didn't the doctor explain why he couldn't zip around like that in time to tell himself shit? Or maybe I just inferred it.



Easily gotten around by the whole 'We're the last 3 people in the universe' thing. That's why it was so bad - it was even worse than the denoument of a Peter F Hamilton story. I was half expecting Amy to drag 50 star systems next to each other or something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Wouldn't go as far as to say it was terrible, but your response is similar to mine. Total cop-out. If everything ever can be solved by the doctor zipping back to tell himself then what's the freaking point of ever being in a tight spot?
> 
> Now, someone tell me if I'm right or wrong: in the first weeping angels episode with Tennant, didn't the doctor explain why he couldn't zip around like that in time to tell himself shit? Or maybe I just inferred it.
> 
> Anyway, I have an intense, great, and immense loathing for Moffatt. He's a cunt of the highest order with his sexist bullshit he rolls out in Confidential. CUNT.



That was with the Tardis though, not a vortex manipulator being used in a universe practically tiny because it had been eated up.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> That was with the Tardis though, not a vortex manipulator being used in a universe practically tiny because it had been eated up.



Cop-out.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 28, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Anyway, I have an intense, great, and immense loathing for Moffatt. He's a cunt of the highest order with *his sexist bullshit he rolls out in Confidential*. CUNT.



Like what?  I never watch Confidential.



Vintage Paw said:


> Wouldn't go as far as to say it was terrible, but your response is similar to mine. Total cop-out. If everything ever can be solved by the doctor zipping back to tell himself then what's the freaking point of ever being in a tight spot?



Moffat's obviously never seen Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.  They parodied that pretty well 21 years ago.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Cop-out.



See my comment #2352


----------



## matt m (Jun 28, 2010)

I haven't seen the last episode yet, so I'm not reading the comments too closely.

But I thought a lot of this series had rather wobbly writing in terms of story resolutions and plot-holes and general unconvincingness.

The episode with all the inhabitants of Earth on that big space-ship with THE TERRIBLE BIG SECRET that is SO TERRIBLE that if anyone finds out they vote to have their memory erased. The story was leading you to think that their ship was being powered by child sex workers or incestuous cannibals or something.

And then it turns out that they're giving electric shocks to a big fish. The writers seriously expect us to believe that human beings would give a fuck about torturing a big tuna fish to save their skins? People do that sort of thing for _fun_ for chrissake! They'd be queueing up to have a go! 

The Van Gogh episode and the two underground lizard episodes were a bit underwhelming too. A bit "is that it?" You were expecting a bit more of a twist or something. It was like the writers just didn't know how to finish the stories properly and went down the pub. 

I think the Dr Who writers need to be a bit tougher on themselves.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Cop-out.



It is a fairytale dressed in tech. Were you sat there going 'Rubbish! the beast was twice the size of the man he turned into when she kissed him! That is scientifically impossible!' while watching beauty and the beast?


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 28, 2010)

Nah, I just thought 'Bad animators! Bad!'.

This is the BBC, not fucking Disnae.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

Fairytales have internal logic.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 28, 2010)

Bad ending for me too I'm afraid.

The good ending would have been the Doctor making the ultimate sacrife and actually ending.

But we want another series or two out of the franchise so we couldn't have that.

So why bother scripting a dramatic self sacrifice and then take it all back with a cop out fix.
I'd have rather he'd not been in peril at all and just send the Pandorica up by remote control.

I said I'd review Amy Pond's acting without bias and the end of the series.
Despite the fact I do fancy her lots I don't rate her acting.

She seems to only have two ranges.
Happy
Sulky spoilt girlie whose been told that no she can't have that pair of shoes she wants, car, puppy, whatever.

The last is used for all dramatic occasions. Danger, sadness, whatever.

Conclusion: Nice eye candy but not a great drama actress.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Fairytales have internal logic.



explain why little redcap took the path of pins then.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> explain why little redcap took the path of pins then.



Some people theorise that it's a reference to pins representing maidenhood while needles represent sexual maturity, though given that in some versions she takes the path of needles, and in some it's not mentioned at all, it may just be a nonsense question or one meant to indicate that there's no difference between the paths.

Anyway, that's not internal consistency. Internal consistency would be if the wolf ate the grandma and that said to be absolutely permanent, but she just suddenly appeared again outside of stomach at the end of the story because the heroine was ginger. This is not consistent with wolves as described.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2010)

You blatantly googled that.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

I did get the maidenhood vs sexuality part from google, yes. Interesting though.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 28, 2010)

amy on her own isn't a great assistant....   she blatant was  just there   to be special and important

it works much better when you have more than one assistant  there is a better dynamic    and having rory worked really  well as  he  played well off the doctor  

i alaways think  the compainion works better if there is  a certain amount  of distance  from the doctor ... new who  was  a bit heavy on the doctor and companion relationship  stuff


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 28, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> amy on her own isn't a great assistant....   she blatant was  just there   to be special and important
> 
> it works much better when you have more than one assistant  there is a better dynamic    and having rory worked really  well as  he  played well off the doctor
> 
> i alaways think  the compainion works better if there is  a certain amount  of distance  from the doctor ... *new who  was  a bit heavy on the doctor and companion relationship  stuff*



Whereas old who, they were just hangers on? Groupies?

Ace and McCoy's Doctor always seemed quite close. And intense.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 28, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure



Yep, that's what I was thinking about for a rather large chunk of it


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 28, 2010)

jer said:


> Whereas old who, they were just hangers on? Groupies?
> 
> Ace and McCoy's Doctor always seemed quite close. And intense.



So was the doctor and Sarah Jane. Then he just dumps her in a sulk in Croydon. 

And it's not even Croydon.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 28, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> So was the doctor and Sarah Jane. Then he just dumps her in a sulk in Croydon.
> 
> And it's not even Croydon.



I remember that. Whatever happened to her, I wonder?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 28, 2010)

so - it did occur to me that you serious sci fi people usually don't like 'reset button' endings - and that's exactly what all that big bang two bollocks was. 

me - i'm not so fussy.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 28, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> so - it did occur to me that you serious sci fi people usually don't like 'reset button' endings - and that's exactly what all that big bang two bollocks was.
> 
> me - i'm not so fussy.



Oh, they don't like reset endings or religious undercurrents or any of that.

I don't mind too much.


----------



## Santino (Jun 28, 2010)

jer said:


> I remember that. Whatever happened to her, I wonder?


----------



## cesare (Jun 28, 2010)

jer said:


> I remember that. Whatever happened to her, I wonder?



Spin off series.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 28, 2010)

cesare said:


> Spin off series.



I know, I used to have a K9 & Company annual


----------



## Augie March (Jun 28, 2010)

I liked it, story inconsistencies and plot-holes be damned!


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 28, 2010)

Gutted the series is over. I liked that last episode a lot. The time-hopping, the world in a bubble etc were really great. Not an effects-driven or supervillain-themed story either. And I lol'd when it turned out to be Amy in the box.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 28, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Not an effects-driven or supervillain-themed story either.


Yeah, that was one of the big things I noticed. Ok, so _every_ villain turned up in the previous episode, but this was basically focused on the four main characters running round and sorting things out.

There were certainly flaws but I thought it was vastly superior to the overblown finales of the RTD years, where any nice touches were drowned in schmaltz and bombast.

And after being hesitant about Smith at first, I really do rather like his interpretation of The Doctor


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 28, 2010)

jer said:


> Whereas old who, they were just hangers on? Groupies?
> 
> Ace and McCoy's Doctor always seemed quite close. And intense.



i'm more thinking of the sexual tension stuff

for me  is doesn't really  feel  right ... i think the whole rose thing really poisoned it for  me  as i have no fucking clue in hell  why the doctor would be attracted to her

i kinda liked  the bickering couple relationship he had  with romana  but that  was more of a meeting of equals

he did have a very intense relationship with ace  he was in part a father figure   but  also at the same time a distant and aloof figure    something of a master and student relationship

one of the few things i like about the new adventures  was the exploration of their relationship   he  could see her potential  and  was moulding her  and testing her  as  well as  the more personal relationship...

and i felt  that really suited the feel of the doctor  ... he has a relationship with his companions  but also  keeps  a part of himself  away   part o fhim sees his  freinds loved ones as pawns  on chess board   even if he aims never to sacrifice one

it just adds a level of depth  

the MS doctor  does seems  to have  a good touch of this  but  i think  the show   still formulates itself  more akin to new who than classic who   for better or  for worse


----------



## TAE (Jun 29, 2010)

*As I said in my blog ...*

What a fantastic series finale !!! Totally blown away. I loved the lead-up to the beginning-credits where it turns out Amy is in the box, not the doctor, and she sais: "Now it gets complicated". Pure class. The way the unfolding events were unpacked was a joy to follow. Great how the Dr introduced himself at the wedding as Amy's imaginary friend.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i'm more thinking of the sexual tension stuff
> 
> for me  is doesn't really  feel  right ... i think the whole rose thing really poisoned it for  me  as i have no fucking clue in hell  why the doctor would be attracted to her
> 
> ...



Here here.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 29, 2010)

spanglechick said:


> so - it did occur to me that you serious sci fi people usually don't like 'reset button' endings - and that's exactly what all that big bang two bollocks was.
> 
> me - i'm not so fussy.





jer said:


> Oh, they don't like reset endings or religious undercurrents or any of that.
> 
> I don't mind too much.



Religious undercurrents are fine, but _deus ex machina_ endings are cheap writing full stop, not just for SF fans.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2010)

well the earliest of that particular cheating for me was Stig of the Dump. What a cunt of an author.

Orbitals glasto remix of the theme is ace. As matt Smith introduces it you can see how awed he is by the crowd and he ends the intro with 'YEAH MAN!' and then a little catch in his voice with a secon 'yeah man'.

Bless him, I don't think he has quite got the fame thing yet. It is one thing to know so many million watched your show but another to see thousands of ravers screaming up the adulation directly, I spose.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Jun 29, 2010)

Did anyone else not find it stupid that the planet managed to survive for 2000 years on the heat given off by the time-locked explosion of a tardis?


----------



## fogbat (Jun 29, 2010)

It clashed with the solid science of the rest of the episode


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> Did anyone else not find it stupid that the planet managed to survive for 2000 years on the heat given off by the time-locked explosion of a tardis?



Nah, cos a tardis is powered by the Eye of Harmony. A tame singularity. And them black holes/singularities are incredibly powerful. Even in real world science the idea of just how powerfull these event are is fucking staggering. These are things that eat galaxies. That make a supernova look like a sunday school picnic.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

punkrockfaggot said:


> Did anyone else not find it stupid that the planet managed to survive for 2000 years on the heat given off by the time-locked explosion of a tardis?


Well, without any reliable data for just how hot that would be, how do we know whether that's stupid or not...?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

I think the best part of the whole episode was The Doctor saying "I wear a fez now. Fezes are cool." and them shooting it.

I like the fact that the Doctor who is super powerful etc. has awful taste in clothes.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 29, 2010)

Fezzes _are_ cool


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I think the best part of the whole episode was The Doctor saying "I wear a fez now. Fezes are cool." and them shooting it.
> 
> I like the fact that the Doctor who is super powerful etc. has awful taste in clothes.


Definitely don't accept the premise


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Fezzes _are_ cool


 
They can be... but not on him they ain't.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

Lord Cam, in fez.









(Ok, I can't pull it off quite as well as The Doctor... )


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

My scanner doesn't work so I can't show you a photo of me in a fez I'm afraid. Its over 15 years old as well so not very current. I still own the fez mind. I just don't wear it.


----------



## cesare (Jun 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Lord Cam, in fez.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"No, no, no. Not like that - like _that_".


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I think the best part of the whole episode was The Doctor saying "I wear a fez now. Fezes are cool." and them shooting it.
> 
> I like the fact that the Doctor who is super powerful etc. has awful taste in clothes.


Could only have been improved if they _hadn't_ shot the fez, just slung it off the side of the building. Imagine if it had risen serenely back up, having landed on top of the Dalek...


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

Do you think the pandorica light flashing all part of the universe at once restored the fez back to existance from its particles?


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

I shall need top watch it again, but that was a pretty cracking finale.  As confirmed by the idiots on here who didn't like it and are whining like five year olds. STFU and learn to understand the genre or stick to yer porn ya eejits.  Wit, charm, tension, consistency and no deus ex machina, what more could anyone but a spoilt child ask for?  The way it through in yet more references that had been scattered throughout the series but had been missed by everyone, sweet as.

Roll on Rivers song...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> no deus ex machina


Come now, there was a _little_ deus ex machina...


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 29, 2010)

Pants finale, previous episode was far better. Who premise requires a DEM to make it work. Laaaaazy. 

'understand the genre' - pshaw. Lecturing me on how to understand prime time SF/Fantasy content.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Come now, there was a _little_ deus ex machina...



no there wasn't, there really wasn't.  Well, not a _brand_ new thing anyway


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Who premise requires a DEM to make it work. Laaaaazy.


except it didnt.



> 'understand the genre' - pshaw. Lecturing me on how to understand prime time SF/Fantasy content.



that could possibly have been mnainly for someone else.  The DEM thing was for you tho


----------



## Santino (Jun 29, 2010)

What about when the god-like Doctor Who emerged from his machine at the end?


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

he told us how to do that weeks ago


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Do you think the pandorica light flashing all part of the universe at once restored the fez back to existance from its particles?


 
Sorry to quote myself but a thought on the above...

So if the light of the Pandorica could restore a dying Amy back to full health...

And the light was broadcast to every moment in time....

.... wouldn't that mean every being who had at some point in time would had been on the point of death wouldn't have gone on to have met their death as they had previously but instead have been restored to full health...

....Creating no end of grandfather paradoxes etc.?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> no there wasn't, there really wasn't.  Well, not a _brand_ new thing anyway





belboid said:


> he told us how to do that weeks ago


That's why it was a _little_ DES


----------



## Santino (Jun 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Sorry to quote myself but a thought on the above...
> 
> So if the light of the Pandorica could restore a dying Amy back to full health...
> 
> ...



Hush you.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Sorry to quote myself but a thought on the above...
> 
> So if the light of the Pandorica could restore a dying Amy back to full health...
> 
> ...



there wouldnt be any grandfather paradoxes necesarily (I dont think). But there would be an awful lot more non-dead people


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> That's why it was a _little_ DES



but you didnt complain then, so its too late to do so now.  It's like playing advantage in kickball.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> there wouldnt be any grandfather paradoxes necesarily (I dont think). But there would be an awful lot more non-dead people


 
Sure their would. Every kid who ever died before passing on their genes would be alive to live to adulthood and (posibily - providing they didn't meet another early death) end up dating someone who might orginally have dated someone else etc. etc.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 29, 2010)

Yeah, but it was specially for Amy that she came back to life and not lots of nearly & recently dead people.

Actually, thinking back to my Hamilton comparison, I'd like to see Amy take the role of The Second Dreamer in the Dreaming Void books, cos she has loads of properly hot sex.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> but you didnt complain then, so its too late to do so now.  It's like playing advantage in kickball.



*jumps in time machine and goes back to issue yellow card*


----------



## Santino (Jun 29, 2010)

Nearly all Doctor Who stories involving time require some kind of multi-dimensional theory of time. You need at least two dimensions.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Sure their would. Every kid who ever died before passing on their genes would be alive to live to adulthood and (posibily - providing they didn't meet another early death) end up dating someone who might orginally have dated someone else etc. etc.



thats not the grandfather paradox.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> thats not the grandfather paradox.


 
Sorry I meant reverse grandfather paradox.

Instead of killing your grandfather who would have led to your existance we have a situation where lots of grandfathers who never were become grandfathers and affect the existance of others who would have been if it wasn't for their existance.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

I think I'd go with calling that 'a completely different history of the universe' rather than a 'XXX Paradox' - but, yes.  Probably.  Or was it different cos Amy was in the Pandoricon????


----------



## Santino (Jun 29, 2010)

I suppose the Doctor might have re-programmed the Pandoricum to just restore stuff to its previous state rather than to full rude health.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Fucking hell, I'd wait 2000 years for you too.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/episodes/b00sxfc7/galleries/wedding



looks like the Doc & Rory have been having a merry old smoke before having those taken


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> no there wasn't, there really wasn't.  Well, not a _brand_ new thing anyway



Really?  So the really tough prison devised in order to lock away someone who was so dangerous it is feared they will destroy existence is also a resurrection machine.  That's an enormous fucking DEM right there.  And not only does it resurrect it's prisoner for no good reason but it will also resurrect anything who's light it shines upon.  Oh look this machine has two fucking ghosts, or at least it would if it didn't keep bring everything back to life.  And so bloody amazing is this _prison_ if flown into an exploding TARDIS it will restart the exact same universe.  

That's before we get to the explosion so huge it can simultaneously wipe out all of existence by virtue of the fact that it happens everywhen that has ever been.  Yet it manages to have an eye of the storm, even though it's not a storm it's an explosion, and within that eye anything from earth can keep going for 2000 years until just a few minutes after Amelia opens the box.  That's a pretty fucking enormous DEM, it's at least as big as the spirit of the second last space whale.  I mean it's not as fucking stupid as everyone on earth magic wishing the wizened old Doctor into good health, but it still falls apart the minute you apply any modicum of thought.

Worst of all the new universe will erase all the damage done by the explosion so almost every single character who died this series gets another shot at a long life.  Once again Moffat has everyone live.


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 29, 2010)

Jesus Christ, some people do love to suck the joy out of things don't they? It was FUN! It's a FUN PROGRAMME!


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2010)

missfran said:


> Jesus Christ, some people do love to suck the joy out of things don't they? It was FUN! It's a FUN PROGRAMME!



Or some people just don't find shitty writing to be an awful lot of fun in the first place.  

It's not as if the people who didn't like it watched and thought it was great and then sat down to write down all the reasons that could ruin their enjoyment.  I didn't find any joy in it in the first place as it was badly put together.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

the only shitty writing was in your post mate.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> the only shitty writing was in your post mate.


Does have a _litte_ bit of a point though


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> the only shitty writing was in your post mate.



Just because I'm clearly the Van Gogh to your French peasant is no need to get nasty.  I just happen to be able to see all the ghosts you are blind to.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 29, 2010)

I think some people have an extremely broad conception of what constitutes a deus ex machina.

If you really want a watertight plot with no contrivances or conveniences go and watch something else. I'd make suggestions but I honestly can't think of anything.

Also I was half convinced the fez was going to stay


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Just because I'm clearly the Van Gogh to your French peasant is no need to get nasty.  I just happen to be able to see all the ghosts you are blind to.



i put 'mate' in 

And you're just wrong.  

The box thing was the biggest bestest prison in the world, it was always gonna have a bit more to it than a bleeding yale lock. It had to keep its prisoner alive for all eternity and then some, it it _had to_ have life preserving (and thus resuscitating - a different thing to resurrecting, if you're complaining about 'bad writing'...) qualities.  And cos it is so powerful, it's abilities will work within a small field outside of itself.  Even microwaves can manage that, so its hardly surprising the best prison ever does as well.

As for the reboot, firstly, it required the tardis, and the tardis is a pretty big and clever object and it was that that was touching every point in the universe, and no ones complained about the Tardis' ability to occupy various points in space and time simultaneously.  

As for the 'memory of the entire universe' thing, I refer you to Marcel Proust, and don't try and tell me he wasn't a good writer.

Entirely and neatly consistent and non-fantastic _at all_.

Except maybe the flying thing....


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I think some people have an extremely broad conception of what constitutes a deus ex machina.



aye, some people seem to think it means 'something I didn't like/get immediately'


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2010)

I have to agree with Stigmata that DEM is being applied here to things that aren't.

A DEM is something that is invented last minute to escape an impossible situation.

A lot of the mechanisms relating to the final show had been pre-established.

The only real DEM is the Doctor travelling backward for no justified reason.


----------



## holteman (Jun 29, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Sorry to quote myself but a thought on the above...
> 
> So if the light of the Pandorica could restore a dying Amy back to full health...
> 
> ...



There you go perfect start to the next series....."Fuck i resurrected the Time Lords!!!"


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

holteman said:


> There you go perfect start to the next series....."Fuck i resurrected the Time Lords!!!"



that was pretty much the first thought that occurred to me whilst watching


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 29, 2010)

Just watched the last episode having been away and missed it, bloody great  way to finish the series. Far better than anything RTD could ever come up with that's for sure.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> The box thing was the biggest bestest prison in the world, it was always gonna have a bit more to it than a bleeding yale lock. It* had* to keep its prisoner alive for all eternity and then some,



Why?  The prison was built in a misguided attempt to prevent the Doctor from destroying existence.  There was absolutely no reason for it to keep him alive, in fact if he died it would have served it's misguided intentions all the better.



Stigmata said:


> I think some people have an extremely broad conception of what constitutes a deus ex machina.



_A deus ex machina (Latin for "god from the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new character, *ability*, or object._

The utterly bizarre and brand new ability of the Pandorica to resurrect the dead is clearly a DEM, designed to resolve both Amy's death and restore the universe.

The also bizarre ability of the exploded TARDIS to maintain all life on earth due to it having a contrived 'eye of a storm' for exactly the right amount of time necessary for Amelia to release Amy also falls into that definition.

The only question is whether the Pandorica's three different types of resurrection power counts as one DEM or three.  I feel three but I can see how someone might count it as just one.


----------



## holteman (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> that was pretty much the first thought that occurred to me whilst watching



Well If its true.... I claim my life time supply of hobnobs!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> I shall need top watch it again, but that was a pretty cracking finale.  As confirmed by the idiots on here who didn't like it and are whining like five year olds. STFU and learn to understand the genre or stick to yer porn ya eejits.



get to fuck

i am a professional geek  i eat doctor who for breakfast  and shit Babylon 5

and  as much as i love doctor who i will point out it's flaws...  

i don't think your a proper fan  till you   nitpick an episode

i own books on continuity errors in star trek  that's the level i'm on

you can call us saddo loser geeks if you want  
hell you can even call us wrong on the issue
 but  don't try to suggest that the people complaining  don't understand the genre


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 29, 2010)

Iguana said:


> The utterly bizarre and brand new ability of the Pandorica to resurrect the dead is clearly a DEM, designed to resolve both Amy's death and restore the universe.



It's not that bizarre- it's a stasis box that preserved what life was left in her. If anything that's the most credible technological contrivance in the whole story.

As for the universe being stored in the Pandorica- it's Pandora's Box. You know how the story goes. You may not think it makes sense scientifically but narratively it's completely logical.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippy, I understand the genre. It is my favourite thing in the world. Give me a nice scifi book and a glass of cider after I have had a blowie and s ome egg n chips and I am the happiest man alive.

But even I am not quite sure that the pandorica-powered recreation of the ENTIR FUCKING TARDIS, YOU KNOW THE POCKET UNIVERSE THAT TRAVERSES TIME AND SPACE ITSELF. is going to be possible just given a bit of frowning from our Pond.

I really enjoyed it but it isn't even remotely sane to claim that it had made sense. Science fantasy.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Why?  The prison was built in a misguided attempt to prevent the Doctor from destroying existence.  There was absolutely no reason for it to keep him alive, in fact if he died it would have served it's misguided intentions all the better.


if that was the case, why didnt they just kill him?




> The utterly bizarre and brand new ability of the Pandorica to resurrect the dead is clearly a DEM, designed to resolve both Amy's death and restore the universe.


she wasn't dead. So you argument is totally kaput



> The also bizarre ability of the exploded TARDIS to maintain all life on earth due to it having a contrived 'eye of a storm' for exactly the right amount of time necessary for Amelia to release Amy also falls into that definition.


no it doesnt


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

But why could it _fly_?!?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm at a total loss to understand how vastly advanced alien technology can operate in a manner that doesn't seem logical from where I stand.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> get to fuck
> 
> i am a professional geek  i eat doctor who for breakfast  and shit Babylon 5
> 
> ...


nothing in there about family entertainment, you have to get them both y'know...


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> But why could it _fly_?!?



was it the doctors magic farts?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm at a total loss to understand how vastly advanced alien technology can operate in a manner that doesn't seem logical from where I stand.


So Moffat moves in mysterious ways?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2010)

When writing sci fi you can either be hard SF and play by the rules or hand your science testicles in at the door before going off on one.

Doctor who has never made any attempt at the former..


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> When writing sci fi you can either be hard SF and play by the rules or hand your science testicles in at the door before going off on one.
> 
> Doctor who has never made any attempt at the former..


Of course not, but the hard/soft science issue is different from logical consitency.

Just don't understand why someone would build a prison that could be flown by the captive


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Just don't understand why someone would build a prison that could be flown by the captive



The Doctor used River's vortex manipulator to move it I thought?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The Doctor used River's vortex manipulator to move it I thought?


 

Alright, p'raps, though that vortex manipulator was getting a bit sonic-screwdrivery with all its different situation-saving uses...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Alright, p'raps, though that vortex manipulator was getting a bit sonic-screwdrivery with all its different situation-saving uses...



Its doctor who ffs, stop thinking too much.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Its doctor who ffs, stop thinking too much.


Is that what we want to teach the kids?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> nothing in there about family entertainment, you have to get them both y'know...



wait  so  none of classic who was family entertainment?  star trek isn't family entertainment?

what is this mystical  family entertainment thing  and  why  is it seemingly link to  dullness and unanswered questions


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> Shippy, I understand the genre. It is my favourite thing in the world. Give me a nice scifi book and a glass of cider after I have had a blowie and s ome egg n chips and I am the happiest man alive.
> 
> But even I am not quite sure that the pandorica-powered recreation of the ENTIR FUCKING TARDIS, YOU KNOW THE POCKET UNIVERSE THAT TRAVERSES TIME AND SPACE ITSELF. is going to be possible just given a bit of frowning from our Pond.
> 
> I really enjoyed it but it isn't even remotely sane to claim that it had made sense. Science fantasy.



i totally agree with you

the only reason i'm willing to forgive it of it sins  is  IT'S NOT FUCKING DEFEATING THE MASTER WITH A FUCKING CAREBEAR STARE ARGGGGHHHH!!!!

you know  i could just about buy  everything  else  it's  just that  last fucking  bit  where there is no fucking explanation  nothing shown from the doctors point of view  and  not a single bit of reason behind it   she  just fucking wishes the doctor back into existance


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> When writing sci fi you can either be hard SF and play by the rules or hand your science testicles in at the door before going off on one.
> 
> Doctor who has never made any attempt at the former..



it feels  at least a bit more honest than trek  which  tries so hard to be scientific  with all it's technologies  but   really all they are doing  is  the  more bullshit version of  reversing the neutron flow


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> you know  i could just about buy  everything  else  it's  just that  last fucking  bit  where there is no fucking explanation  nothing shown from the doctors point of view  and  not a single bit of reason behind it   she  just fucking wishes the doctor back into existance



She's got mad reality-bending mental skillz as a result of that ruddy crack on her wall. She can recall things that were lost.

Can't remember the Dalek invasion though, that's still a rum old puzzle


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 29, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Can't remember the Dalek invasion though, that's still a rum old puzzle


 
Thought it was because she was from a starless version of Earth?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

they never really did explain that

also  does this mean everything that happened  was  reset?    or was only earth  and rory's death reset?  

or  if brining the doctor  back   makes it so as everything  has happened  again  why didn't rory die?  or  is he an auton again or what?

it all ends up being a but ... whatever dude  we will just  pick what ever shit  we want to reset  and  leave the rest


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> they never really did explain that
> 
> also  does this mean everything that happened  was  reset?    or was only earth  and rory's death reset?
> 
> ...



Rory is alive because Amy's magic crack brain wished him to be.  He is human, but once the doctor appeared he remembered being plastic (he actually says it to Amy's mum after the TARDIS appears).  Anyone throughout the whole series who was affected by the crack never was in this new universe.  So the fishy vampires of Venice, for example, are still on their own planet and anyone who was killed by them in Italy got to continue on with their lives.  This is shown by the fact that Sophie from Peep Show is seen at the wedding even though she was killed by Prisoner Zero in The Eleventh Hour.

I'm not sure why Amy's brain is still affected by the crack now that the crack has never happened other cause she's so magic and special.


----------



## Santino (Jun 29, 2010)

Iguana said:


> I'm not sure why Amy's brain is still affected by the crack now that the crack has never happened other cause she's so magic and special.



Because she's a time traveller. Once you spend time in the TARDIS you get sort of immune to time changing like that. It's a fairly well-established thing on Doctor Who.


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> they never really did explain that


did you pay any attention while you were watching?  or were you too distracted by ms gillan's legs????


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> did you pay any attention while you were watching?  or were you too distracted by ms gillan's legs????



of course i paid attention

as  for  sexual stimulation  my   manga reading protects me against    such pathetic attempts  at  subduction she doesn't even have fox ears ffs


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2010)

Santino said:


> Because she's a time traveller. Once you spend time in the TARDIS you get sort of immune to time changing like that. It's a fairly well-established thing on Doctor Who.



yup, moving between/within time streams makes you a special case. That travel means you aren't subject to the normal rulses. Which is total bollocks, yeah, but we are talking about a semi-immortal alien who travels time in a 1950s police box that contains a pocket universe powered by a link to a tame singularity. So verisimilitude sort of left the building a while back.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

Iguana said:


> tl;dr



ok so what about  the starship uk ...  did they go to that or  not   is the wale free or doomed  to electroshock therapy?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 29, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> It's not that bizarre- it's a stasis box that preserved what life was left in her. .



She was dead. 

It also brought back a dalek that had never existed (but left echos???) with light inside. It did this in a second or two but took thousands of years to fix Amy, who did at least exist.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

i can understand the imunity to some time travel issues...  but  wishing shit into existance is a bit shit

it would fucking speed up  back to the future III  though...  oh no  the doc  is trapped in the  wild west...  *thwaaaap!!!* marty thank the heavens!  you remembered me  back  to  the future!  why is my hair on fire?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> She was dead.
> 
> It also brought back a dalek that had never existed (but left echos???) with light inside. It did this in a second or two but took thousands of years to fix Amy, who did at least exist.



not quite...    people inside the box can be healed  if   their dna  touches the outside of the box (don't know  wtf is wrong  with the fucking giant lump of dna inside the  box but hey)   

creatures that no longer  belong in the universe  don't  disappear any more... they now turn to stone...  but if that stone  i    struck  by   bits of the old universe  in which they did exist   they  will be restored


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 29, 2010)

Santino said:


> Because she's a time traveller. Once you spend time in the TARDIS you get sort of immune to time changing like that. It's a fairly well-established thing on Doctor Who.



Except on that one occasion when they decided she wasn't and she forgot Rory.


----------



## cesare (Jun 29, 2010)

missfran said:


> Jesus Christ, some people do love to suck the joy out of things don't they? It was FUN! It's a FUN PROGRAMME!



Yes!

Can't someone just vortex manipulator these quizzics back to 1963 to pick infinite holes starting from the beginning?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

cesare said:


> Yes!
> 
> Can't someone just vortex manipulator these quizzics back to 1963 to pick infinite holes starting from the beginning?



we  do that anyway

like why does susan say she named the tardis?

why does susan call the doctor grandfather

why does the doctor  consider killing  a caveman  something massivly out of charactor 

why has the doctor never heard of the daleks ?  it might be his first time bumping into them  but the timelords as a whole should know them well



actually  these are only really  issues  due to later  story changes  really...    and man some of the explanations  are fucking convoluted


----------



## cesare (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> we  do that anyway
> 
> like why does susan say she named the tardis?
> 
> ...



But without these contradictions/holes/cracks ... it wouldn't be any fun!


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> ok so what about  the starship uk ...  did they go to that or  not   is the wale free or doomed  to electroshock therapy?



Yeah, that all happened, it just didn't have a crack on it's underside after the whale was freed.  Most things in the series happened, just not anything involving the crack.  Though the Angels two parter would have gone completely differently as there was no crack erasing the soldiers throughout it and the angels at the end.  Which is especially weird as the River there was a later version than the River in the finale and had already experienced the making of a new universe but wasn't ok with the crack that she would have known no longer could have been happening.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

oh now your just being silly

yes plot holes and continuty errors are  going to occur  on a show as long running as doctor who    and  the change in the nature of the show   has meant  a certain amount of retconning  has taken place  and although it is mildly amusing to debate the nature of these issues    it's not a case of  plot inconsistency being something you look forward to

actually  sometimes the nicest bits are when  the show skilfully bridges these issues


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Which is especially weird as the River there was a later version than the River in the finale and had already experienced the making of a new universe but wasn't ok with the crack that she would have known no longer could have been happening.



don't worry shes been in the tardis loads  she  has magic powers too that  how  she was able to  magic into existance  her diary  even though  the ink was magic souluable


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> not quite...    people inside the box can be healed  if   their dna  touches the outside of the box (don't know  wtf is wrong  with the fucking giant lump of dna inside the  box but hey)



I guess it's the same principle as the medical nanites giving everyone gasmasks in that WWII episode- young Amelia was a DNA donor from which a model of a healthy adult Amy could be extrapolated.



> i can understand the imunity to some time travel issues... but wishing shit into existance is a bit shit



Maybe, but thoughts influencing the physical universe is a theme that's been touched on before in the show.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Maybe, but thoughts influencing the physical universe is a theme that's been touched on before in the show.



Yup, just like when everyone thought about the Doctor and it influenced the physical universe enough for him to defeat the Master.


----------



## holteman (Jun 29, 2010)

I just spent 2 days wishing River would appear on her knees in font of me...



It didn't work.....


Doctor who fail


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 29, 2010)

holteman said:


> I just spent 2 days wishing River would appear on her knees in font of me...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn real life eh? Bloody stupid isn't it....


----------



## Quartz (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i can understand the imunity to some time travel issues...  but  wishing shit into existance is a bit shit



She wasn't wishing him into existence; she was creating a bridge between her universe and the one in which the Doctor was trapped.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

what about the tardis?  the diary that shouldn't exist?   ok i'll give the diary  as artistic licence   but  wtf happened with the tardis... one moment it was exploding   next moment  what?     was it fully repaired  on this side of the universe    or was it  on the other side with the doctor....   why does he turn up in the tardis    why wasn't there a crack?

since when can people wish them selves across universes?   didn't fucking work for  rose  and  she had a whole tardis in her head at one point


----------



## Santino (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> why has the doctor never heard of the daleks ?  it might be his first time bumping into them  but the timelords as a whole should know them well



Multi-dimensional time. They didn't exist in the past then, but they do now.


----------



## holteman (Jun 29, 2010)

Did anyone really expect a perfectly scientific ending? no loose ties, no strange holes in the plot?


Have to say the whole remembering him back into existence did piss me off on the same level as "if everyone thinks of the doctor at the same time...."


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

i have a better explanation...  mercury poisoning 

that  fluid link  gave off some fumes  and  he was mad as a hatter for the  rest of that  episode


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

holteman said:


> Have to say the whole remembering him back into existence did piss me off on the same level as "if everyone thinks of the doctor at the same time...."



no... 

no nothing  was quite as bad as that

that was truly  the lowest point doctor who  ever reached i think...   

i think everyone texting the doctor   to call him over  comes  second

this  is  lower down the line...    the  is  around  the  carrot juice, carrot juice, carrot juice... level


----------



## holteman (Jun 29, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> no...
> 
> no nothing  was quite as bad as that
> 
> ...



Yeah actually you''re right.....This is a tad annoying...

That made me want to rip my own eyes out


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

it was all going reasonably well too    with a fucking batshit insane master you could really get behind     so ok  he was a bit grating  but i could see it  workign  as a nice progrestion from the cool calm of delagardo  to  the  unpredictable  ainley  (the telemovie master did not exist)  to the  really  fucked  simms 

i could buy that    and  he  did  oh so make it enjoyable...  a proper bad guy  who was  just  out to make the doctors life a misery...  and  was a proper equal  too 

but  no     they  just fucking shat all over the ending


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

actually  his reappearence   was a bit like that too

everyone turning into him was dumb... really fucking dumb.... but  it  was actually so hilarious  i actually went with it....   it's  just a pity    it  thought it was fucking starwars  for the next episode

and  why the flying fuck  did they have to  fuck up rassilion


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2010)

you speak utter _utter_ rubbish.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> you speak utter _utter_ rubbish.



He speaks the truth.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 29, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Yup, just like when everyone thought about the Doctor and it influenced the physical universe enough for him to defeat the Master.



I didn't hate that as much as some people seem to. They'd established the Archangel Network in the previous episode as being some sort of planetwide psychic thingamajig so it wasn't a plot point that emerged from the blue.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

belboid said:


> you speak utter _utter_ rubbish.



o rly?


i bet you liked the telemovie


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 29, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I didn't hate that as much as some people seem to. They'd established the Archangel Network in the previous episode as being some sort of planetwide psychic thingamajig so it wasn't a plot point that emerged from the blue.


No, but it was shite all the same.

Another dissenting voice, although it's one of the comments that is quite interesting:





> I do miss The Doctor as a scientist. It’s part of what made ME a scientist.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I didn't hate that as much as some people seem to. They'd established the Archangel Network in the previous episode as being some sort of planetwide psychic thingamajig so it wasn't a plot point that emerged from the blue.



it wasn't out of the blue  it  was  dumb and mawkish though  especially  with  that wierd  aging shit  and  the reversing of it


now  if the  doctor   was just say  trapped     what they could have done is  shown people hacking into the archangel network     and maybe hooking it up to the tardis telepathic  circuits   and then using the doctors link with the tardis  along  with the will of the people  (no need  to go over the top  licking  the doctors ring piece  with tales of  his glory....  just straight forward    use  everyones  want for change) he trigers  the tqardis  to  dematerialise  and    rematerialise  around him   alowing him to do whatever   


only minor plot changes   but  a much  more satifying  way of hadling it 

instead  we  have really   urrrgghh  moments    about  spreading the ledgend of the doctor     and  peoples  belief in him .....  a plot element  used  more than once  which i really hated    which  then  makes  him magically transform  and  beat the master....  urghh ...  no wit  no skill    not  even reversing the polarity of the nutron flow... just  using   a fucking carebear stare


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 30, 2010)

that episode with the two realities and the "dream lord" was pretty lame


----------



## Iguana (Jun 30, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> instead  we  have really   urrrgghh  moments    about  spreading the ledgend of the doctor     and  peoples  belief in him .....  a plot element  used  more than once  which i really hated    which  then  makes  him magically transform  and  beat the master....  urghh ...  no wit  no skill    not  even reversing the polarity of the nutron flow... just  using   a fucking carebear stare



Don't forget the reset button.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 30, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Don't forget the reset button.



That was coming as soon as they said Paradox machine.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> He speaks the truth.



you wouldnt know the truth if it hit you in the face screaming 'I'm the truth, asshole' 



Shippou-Chan said:


> o rly?
> 
> 
> i bet you liked the telemovie



o rly.

tho i do agree that the telemovie was utter utter pish.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 30, 2010)

the correct response  is ya rly    but i digress

ok  so at least you know the telemovie was shit   (although the set was  quite good  and mccoy was good  and  macgann would have been alright if it wasn't for the script)

but really  why the hell would  you want to defend  those particular episodes?   what is the good  you see in them?

it's nopt like i'm dismissing  new doctor who...  i liked quite a few episodes   and i even understand  some of the dicision they have made  even if i don't totally  agree with them

for example i don't hate some over emotional bits...   i thought  the  van gogh  was  blatantly going into mawkish territory but  i felt it worked for that episode  the highs and lows  of the show  worked well with the highs and lows of the charactor the show is based around   that  a reasonable  story choice

what i object too  is  fairytale  style writing   for  no other reason  than  to  give a false idea of epicness    the  "big" episodes of  the RTD era  really  did this a lot...   treating the doctor  like a simi mythical god like  figure     to  give a feeling  of  importance to the character...  this pisses me off  as  it's unnecessary  and gets in the way of the story and the charac tor   and leads  to  plot devices  that  don't make sense and  in my opinion poison the  feel of the show ...     look at peoples favourite doctors    people  like tom baker,  pertwee, troughton  these were all people  who played  the underdog   they  were  treated with scepticism  and sometimes even fear  but  they battled through this  and won   and that feels  like so much more of an achievement

thankfully  the writers seemed to have moved away  from  the really  dubious  bit of the last  few series   but  i think  that   there are still areas i disagree with    for example  giving  all the companions  mysterious universe bending powers... really  not good  ...   companions  always worked best  as  watsons  to the doctors holmes... and i'm not saying they should just be screamers  remeber watson was a genuis in his own right  and holmes relied on him very much  and the companions can be like that too   for  example  romana 

but anyway i'm just ranting now...  you can belive what you want    that's  your right  but  i'd be carefull about dismissing the nay sayers  on this thread


----------



## Iguana (Jun 30, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> what i object too  is  fairytale  style writing   for  no other reason  than  to  give a false idea of epicness    the  "big" episodes of  the RTD era  really  did this a lot...   treating the doctor  like a simi mythical god like  figure     to  give a feeling  of  importance to the character...  this pisses me off  as  it's unnecessary  and gets in the way of the story and the charac tor   and leads  to  plot devices  that  don't make sense and  in my opinion poison the  feel of the show ...



Thing is though a lot of the Doctor as god stuff from the RTD era also came from Moffat's episodes.  The 'Lonely God'  from The Girl in the Fireplace and River banging on about just what he would become in his future/her past.  And he's said that he sees Doctor Who as a fairy tale rather than science fiction, that the scientific explanations for the 'magic' are token.  Moffat sees it entirely as a fairytale rather than a science fiction show.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 30, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Thing is though a lot of the Doctor as god stuff from the RTD era also came from Moffat's episodes.  The 'Lonely God'  from The Girl in the Fireplace and River banging on about just what he would become in his future/her past.  And he's said that he sees Doctor Who as a fairy tale rather than science fiction, that the scientific explanations for the 'magic' are token.  *Moffat sees it entirely as a fairytale rather than a science fiction show*.



No problems with that. I can't wait for the king of fairytale telling, Gaiman, to impress next season.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> you wouldnt know the truth if it hit you in the face screaming 'I'm the truth, asshole'



I think you have got things a little mixed up. Fine by me if you have a high threshold for badly written turds, but it jars with me. 

Your posts on this subject are (unless you are just trolling now) are childish and moronic.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> the correct response  is ya rly    but i digress
> 
> ok  so at least you know the telemovie was shit   (although the set was  quite good  and mccoy was good  and  macgann would have been alright if it wasn't for the script)
> 
> but really  why the hell would  you want to defend  those particular episodes?   what is the good  you see in them?



well, I liked the bits you were slagging off.  Overall, the stories didn't quite work, all got a bit messy, and somethng of a waste of a great build up.  But everyone having the masters face, superb bit of _drama_, and that's what it's about at the end of the day, being good drama.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think you have got things a little mixed up. Fine by me if you have a high threshold for badly written turds, but it jars with me.
> 
> Your posts on this subject are (unless you are just trolling now) are childish and moronic.



Look, we've already proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you dont understand how TV drama works, so stop embarassing yourself.  Kindly go elsewhere to whinge lie a six year old that you didn't get all your toys from Father Christmas.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 30, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> thankfully  the writers seemed to have moved away  from  the really  dubious  bit of the last  few series   but  i think  that   there are still areas i disagree with    for example  giving  all the companions  mysterious universe bending powers... really  not good  ...   companions  always worked best  as  watsons  to the doctors holmes... and i'm not saying they should just be screamers  remeber watson was a genuis in his own right  and holmes relied on him very much  and the companions can be like that too   for  example  romana



Agreed. But Amy's super-powers are over now the crack in time is gone, so she'll be a normal companion next season. I wonder if Rory has retained his Auton gun?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> Look, we've already proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you dont understand how TV drama works, so stop embarassing yourself.  Kindly go elsewhere to whinge lie a six year old that you didn't get all your toys from Father Christmas.



?

Nobody proved anything. Beyond a shadow of a doubt? I think there are more nay-sayers here than not and I think that's a little more than a mere 'shadow'. Are you still bleating on about how it's ok to write rubbish because it's being done on the fly or for children. Your expectance of poor writing due to circumstance (whatever that might be) does not make it good writing.
I said I thought some of the series was ok and fairly enjoyable but the lazy writing and 'magic' fixes ruined it. I'm not a new who fan so I'm not throwing my toys out of the pram, I'm just making a comment. I don't know why you feel the need to be such a schoolboy dick about it. Odd.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't know why I feel the need to be such a schoolboy dick about it. Odd.



corrected for you


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> But everyone having the masters face, superb bit of _drama_, and that's what it's about at the end of the day, being good drama.



Who said that bit wasn't good? 

Good drama comes from an element of 'drama', we all know that the Doctor won't die (but his assistants might*), but now we don't even need to know 'how' he saves the day. It just happens. That's not drama. 

*Plus we now expect dead assistants to come back to from alternate realities, their brains exploding after remembering the doctor or 'actual' death anyway. Where is the drama in that?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> corrected for you



Which only goes to prove my point.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Who said that bit wasn't good?
> 
> Good drama comes from an element of 'drama', we all know that the Doctor won't die (but his assistants might*), but now we don't even need to know 'how' he saves the day. It just happens. That's not drama.
> 
> *Plus we now expect dead assistants to come back to from alternate realities, their brains exploding after remembering the doctor or 'actual' death anyway. Where is the drama in that?



all just proves you cant read english _or_ television.  

We did see how he saved the day, so that criticism is just silly.  Do you pay any attention?

As this series is done, and as I have no interest in no interest in the ill-formed and ill-informed opinion of a child like AS, I'll probly leave this thread and await, and then be somewhat disappointed by, the Xmas special.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> But everyone having the masters face, superb bit of _drama_, and that's what it's about at the end of the day, being good drama.



drama?

it was pure comedy



doctor who meets the league of gentlemen

but i'll admit it kinda worked  as  something so out there  you can't complain about it...  it's really hanging a hat on the ridiculousness


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 30, 2010)

Iguana said:


> Thing is though a lot of the Doctor as god stuff from the RTD era also came from Moffat's episodes.  The 'Lonely God'  from The Girl in the Fireplace and River banging on about just what he would become in his future/her past.  And he's said that he sees Doctor Who as a fairy tale rather than science fiction, that the scientific explanations for the 'magic' are token.  Moffat sees it entirely as a fairytale rather than a science fiction show.



that quite intresting, perhaps it  isn't the farytale aspect i object to as much  as the  false  veneer of importance   moffat hints at what is possible    rather than throws it in you face perhaps       the hints of the doctors future   a bit link    classics who's   hints  about rassilion...    the less  said the better


----------



## emanymton (Jun 30, 2010)

So why where there no ducks in the duck pond? 


And how come River could remember the Doctor?


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 30, 2010)

emanymton said:


> So why where there no ducks in the duck pond?



Because the pond is too full of red herring.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 30, 2010)

missfran said:


> Because the pond is too full of red herring.



I still think the ducks were taken by a crack but the pond remains like the rooms in Ponds house.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jun 30, 2010)

I was thinking that the ducks were like the dolphins in the Hitch-Hikers Guide...


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 30, 2010)

Nah, that was the bees.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> all just proves you cant read english _or_ television.
> 
> We did see how he saved the day, so that criticism is just silly.  Do you pay any attention?
> 
> As this series is done, and as I have no interest in no interest in the ill-formed and ill-informed opinion of a child like AS, I'll probly leave this thread and await, and then be somewhat disappointed by, the Xmas special.



Wow what a tool you are, and you are really taking this all to heart aren't you? Don't worry it's all over now dear. 
Ok maybe 'save the day' should have been 'come back from nowhere with a very broad 'magic' explanation for the last ep, but I was talking about new who in general not just the one ep. Come on, you are accusing me of not reading. 

I can't imagine why this all gets your goat so much. Did you write it? Just relax, it's just TV, and not even well written TV at that (you did write it didn't you!!).


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Wow what a tool you are, and you are really taking this all to heart aren't you? Don't worry it's all over now dear.
> Ok maybe 'save the day' should have been 'come back from nowhere with a very broad 'magic' explanation for the last ep, but I was talking about new who in general not just the one ep. Come on, you are accusing me of not reading.
> 
> I can't imagine why this all gets your goat so much. Did you write it? Just relax, it's just TV, and not even well written TV at that (you did write it didn't you!!).



You have a bit of history on this board of being a negative creep, about pretty much everything. I can't imagine why people react against you.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 1, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> You have a bit of history on this board of being a negative creep, about pretty much everything. I can't imagine why people react against you.



A creep?  Just because he doesn't enjoy poor writing?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 1, 2010)

jesus

atomic suplex  urbans axis of evil


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 1, 2010)

Iguana said:


> A creep?  Just because he doesn't enjoy poor writing?



Yes, that's exactly right.


----------



## cesare (Jul 1, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> You have a bit of history on this board of being a negative creep, about pretty much everything. I can't imagine why people react against you.



Blimey. Any minute now and you'll accuse him of being the Master


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 1, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> jesus
> 
> atomic suplex  urbans axis of evil



Not that it matters, and I know nothing about the culture and hug-pillows you love, but at least you _like_ things. AS never seems to do. It's just hate.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

Atomic Suplex generally rails like the last free man against anything he considers poor writing but it is the salt to a dish of people (including me) going 'oh that was fucking awesome'


----------



## cesare (Jul 1, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Not that it matters, and I know nothing about the culture and hug-pillows you love, but at least you _like_ things. AS never seems to do. It's just hate.



He likes loads of things! His gorgeous daughter, his music, his cooking! Maybe you just like different things to him and your paths don't converge much.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 1, 2010)

cesare said:


> He likes loads of things! His gorgeous daughter, his music, his cooking! Maybe you just like different things to him and your paths don't converge much.



Ach, he's hardly anywhere on the twat-scale on the board, but he needs to lighten up. He's like a misery-face when it comes to - erm, popular entertainment. No?


----------



## cesare (Jul 1, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Ach, he's hardly anywhere on the twat-scale on the board, but he needs to lighten up. He's like a misery-face when it comes to - erm, popular entertainment. No?



Oh, I dunno. I'm kind of interested to read all the detailed criticisms from those that aren't that keen.

Saves me from thinking about it too much  I like watching it ... I'm not sure I like it to the extent of analysing it loads though. "But then he turned right, and scratched his calf muscle, and I'm sure his bow tie changed colour right then. But that may have been a distraction from Amy's blatant grabbing of his crotch in a manner entirely unsuited to an assistant _in this particular vortex manipulated timeframe_ and that auton gun was blates a version 3.12.8 model, what was that all about? 3.12.8 got superceded by 3.12.9 in the second episode after K9 first appeared so there's a roll back theme being introduced here which is clearly out of kilter with the Roman Gladiator period which was dealt with rather more successfully when it was first introduced back in etc etc".

or

"Oh dahling. It's a deux ex machina and so last century"


----------



## cesare (Jul 1, 2010)

"Deus, dahling, deu_s_"


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 1, 2010)

cesare said:


> Oh, I dunno. I'm kind of interested to read all the detailed criticisms from those that aren't that keen.



It's mostly always been a wizard's tale, a fantasy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

had me moll flanders bash. She really doesn't seem to have aged at all. Moll Flanders was a fucking long time ago and she is still rocking the bosoomly milf look.


----------



## cesare (Jul 1, 2010)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It's mostly always been a wizard's tale, a fantasy.



For me, it's not meant to all make sense. I don't want the obvious and logical. Much of the entertainment is in the surprise & introducing things that aren't neat.

I never try and work out whodunnits either, I just like watching them unfold.

But I do get extra entertainment from the analysis, it adds something.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> had me moll flanders bash. She really doesn't seem to have aged at all. Moll Flanders was a fucking long time ago and she is still rocking the bosoomly milf look.



Don't forget she was in ER too. Fesity medic milf action FTW!


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Wow what a tool you are, and you are really taking this all to heart aren't you? Don't worry it's all over now dear.
> Ok maybe 'save the day' should have been 'come back from nowhere with a very broad 'magic' explanation for the last ep, but I was talking about new who in general not just the one ep. Come on, you are accusing me of not reading.



actually, I'm 'accusing' you of being a hypocritical whining twat, who thinks he's the font of all knowledge, when you are actually utterly full of shit, a pathetic little child.


----------



## innit (Jul 1, 2010)

easy guys, it's saturday night tv


----------



## fogbat (Jul 1, 2010)

innit said:


> easy guys, it's saturday night tv



Yes, and he's _getting it wrong_!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

belboid said:


> actually, I'm 'accusing' you of being a hypocritical whining twat, who thinks he's the font of all knowledge, when you are actually utterly full of shit, a pathetic little child.



Wowzers keep your hair on jimmy. Let's break it down.

"Hypocritical" - When? (you do know what it means right?)
"Whining" - Because I said Dr Who was too 'magic' for me? Get a grip. I can assure you I am not half as whiny as you are making yourself out to be.
"Font of all knowledge" - Well ok, sure why not. 
"Full of shite" - Now hang there . . . 
"Pathetic" - Huh? Hey wait a  . . 
"Little Child" - Ah, now, I have documents for that. Sadly.

Now calm down and tell me.  This is really about Battlestar Galactica isn't it?



(or that other thing with your sister?)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

Of all the things to be in a bun fight about.


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Wowzers keep your hair on jimmy.


oh you utter hypocrite



> (or that other thing with your sister?)



what implication are you trying to make cuntchops? spit it out (you obviously know how to do that, seeing as you've done it with your dummy so often)

I pity your daughter


----------



## fogbat (Jul 1, 2010)

Really not coming across as entirely rational here, belboid


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2010)

rational is very dull tho.

I just dont have time for arrogant and deeply ignorant cunts like AS, especially when he tries to make snide implications like the above.


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

Searching for beef recipes...


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2010)

Tho I'm really not sure how a dalek would have been able to tie that pinny on.  Bad writing there


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

why is that Cyberman a maoist?


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> why is that Cyberman a maoist?



He's blates offering up K9 as a delicacy.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 1, 2010)

What is Chewbacca doing there?


----------



## cesare (Jul 1, 2010)

Hatstand Wookey lol


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

Santino said:


> He's blates offering up K9 as a delicacy.



racist


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 1, 2010)

Cantona to fight Dr. Who?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 1, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Cantona to fight Dr. Who?



The further down that article you go, the less confident it becomes in its claims.


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The further down that article you go, the less confident it becomes in its claims.



I've begun to doubt that there even is a programme called 'Doctor Who'.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 1, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The further down that article you go, the less confident it becomes in its claims.


I know, I know, but let us dream, if only for a short while...


----------



## killer b (Jul 1, 2010)

fogbat said:


> The further down that article you go, the less confident it becomes in its claims.


lol, yep. it's just something matt smith said to one of their journalist isn't it? in fact, the journalist probably said 'matt, would you like to work with cantona...'


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 1, 2010)

Maybe if we all keep thinking 'Eric Cantona, Eric Cantona...' it'll come true....?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 1, 2010)

Journalism at its finest


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 1, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Maybe if we all keep thinking 'Eric Cantona, Eric Cantona...' it'll come true....?


----------



## killer b (Jul 1, 2010)

i had the pleasure of seeing a star reporter at work interviewing beth ditto at the height of her tabloid popularity. he told her about some bullshit rachel stephens had said about pop stars being role models and extrapolated that she was saying fat people shouldn't be pop stars, to which ditto just replied something innocuous & diplomatic. i checked the paper the next day, and it'd been turned into a massive 'beef' in the article... they're true artists.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

belboid said:


> rational is very dull tho.
> 
> I just dont have time for arrogant and deeply ignorant cunts like AS, especially when he tries to make snide implications like the above.



Ok the sister thing was wrong. I admit that. I can't really justify that. I was just getting a bit sick of your over-reactionary bile towards me. I really don't see where this is all coming from. 

Also, you seem to have plenty of time for me. You are spending much more time on saying what you think of me than anyone else who thought Mr Whos writing was below par, or Mr who himself for that matter. 

Why on earth am I a hypocrite? 
What the heck did I post on this subject that makes me so arrogant?
Do I really deserve the C word because I think the last episode of Doctor Who could have been better?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ok the sister thing was wrong. I admit that. I can't really justify that. I was just getting a bit sick of your over-reactionary bile towards me. I really don't see where this is all coming from.


 
The pandorica light touched him and resurected it.


----------



## Boycey (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Do I really deserve the C word because I think the last episode of Doctor Who could have been better?



not at all, i find it particularly odd when people take criticism of something they love but had no part in creating personally.

as for me, i fucking almost every minute of it- roll on the next series!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Do I really deserve the C word because I think the last episode of Doctor Who could have been better?



yes

resistance is futile  join us  become one with family entertainment...  you have no need of logic for we have ... heart


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> yes
> 
> resistance is futile  join us  become one with family entertainment...  you have no need of logic for we have ... heart



I think it is for the same reason I have always hated lord of the rings. 

"Oh no we are trapped and doomed"
"Don't worry master Frodo, magic water horses that have never been mentioned before in the plot are here to save us, phew"

"Ok rings in the fire but how are we going to get out of this shit now"
"It's ok master Frodo some giant magic birds that have never been mentioned in the plot before this moment have come to save us"
"What the. . . Why didn't we just fly on them and save all these good people nine hours of bum rot?"
"Something about eagles not interfering in the wotsit of men or something?"
"Eh?"
"Stop complaining, you are safe now. If you are going to complain about anything complain about the fact that despite the film being over, you still have 2 and a half hours and three more over emotional endings dripping with honey flavored strawberry screen sentimentality to sit though."
"Can't I just leave?"
"No. You are here with your wife remember and she loves this bullshit"
"Rats"


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> "What the. . . Why didn't we just fly on them and save all these good people nine hours of bum rot?"



Why the fuck does everyone bring this up like it's some sort of brilliant solution to the plot?

A fuck off big eagle trying to cross the Plain of Gorgoroth would have been shot down in like 15 seconds. Sauron gets the ring off the bird corpse, end of the world ensues.

It would of course also be the end of the film, so maybe that's what you were hoping for.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think it is for the same reason I have always hated lord of the rings.
> 
> "Oh no we are trapped and doomed"
> "Don't worry master Frodo, magic water horses that have never been mentioned before in the plot are here to save us, phew"
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think it is for the same reason I have always hated lord of the rings.
> 
> "Oh no we are trapped and doomed"
> "Don't worry master Frodo, magic water horses that have never been mentioned before in the plot are here to save us, phew"
> ...



There is bad writing and then there is bad readers.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Why the fuck does everyone bring this up like it's some sort of brilliant solution to the plot?
> 
> A fuck off big eagle trying to cross the Plain of Gorgoroth would have been shot down in like 15 seconds. Sauron gets the ring off the bird corpse, end of the world ensues.
> 
> It would of course also be the end of the film, so maybe that's what you were hoping for.



Stop it stop it stop it. 
I have heard it all before, I was only kidding. It doesn't take two and a half hours to end after that either.

(Not about it being shit and giving me bum ache though). 

And maybe he wouldn't have been shot down. 
http://www.sean-crist.com/personal/pages/eagles/index.html
Read that (I haven't) and discuss it amongst yourselves.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> There is bad writing and then there is bad readers.



And you too. 

Take it easy. I was stupidly fishing with a massive net and got what I deserved.


----------



## cesare (Jul 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> There is bad writing and then there is bad readers.


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

I think most people get upset when this happens:

'I enjoyed that! It was really good.'

'No, it wasn't good, because of reasons a, b and c.'

People are rarely interested to find that there are formal reasons why they are incorrect to enjoy something. Partly perhaps because there are no unbreakable rules in art. As soon as someone says 'a story that does x or y is Bad', someone can come up with a counter-example when a story does exactly that and is nevertheless satisfying.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

the old 'all art is subjective' rule.

It is true to a certain extent but questioning the internal logic in a manner that is wrong means you have been wrong about a fantasy story. On the internet. The internets bit compounds your epic fail.


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> the old 'all art is subjective' rule.
> 
> It is true to a certain extent but questioning the internal logic in a manner that is wrong means you have been wrong about a fantasy story. On the internet. The internets bit compounds your epic fail.



It's not that it's subjective, it's that there are no absolute principles. Like playing chess - you cannot formulate a rule for making a good move that applies in all situations. You have to be sensitive to context. There are only good moves within the context of a particular game. 

Or take language - you can't decree that 'saying x always means y', because it can nearly always mean something else in the right context. That's how sarcasm and understatement work, and you can never legislate that sort of thing out of a language.


----------



## matt m (Jul 1, 2010)

There is internal logic, and there is good and bad reading, but the most important thing is whether something is convincing or not.

Someone used the words 'deus ex machina' a couple of pages back on this thread and they were good words to use.

It doesn't matter whether or not something is "correct" or "logically possible" or "congruent with the story" or whatever –*when you have a fiendish difficult, cliffhanger situation in which somebody is placed, it's always a bit of a let-down when they get out of it too easily, in a way that feels like a bit of a cop-out. 

The thing about the deus ex machina in Greek theatre, or Shakespeare, or Joe Orton, is that it is employed either semi- or entirely self-consciously: it is something that draws attention to it's artificial status in order to highlight the theatricality, the "there but for the grace of God go I", the "it may be formally a happy ending, but we all know it's not really". It leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

The Dr Who endings don't recognise that. They just have a tendency to laziness: it's just a bit too easy. 

Am I right or wrong in thinking that the old Dr Whos didn't really mess about with the paradoxes of time travel overmuch? I don't remember characters often going back over their own timelives at all, let alone the Dr. It was generally the Dr just using the Tardis to get from A-B, whatever period of history that was.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

Santino said:


> I think most people get upset when this happens:
> 
> 'I enjoyed that! It was really good.'
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone has been saying there are formal reasons for people to not enjoy the series. Point's A,B and C ruined it a bit for me (though it was still a fairly enjoyable jaunt), it didn't bother others. You can have a perfectly logical story that is still a boring and drama free as anything. 

Tom and Jerry is good but that doesn't exactly follow the laws of physics or logical character motivation. 

The problem for me is that it came close to being good and missed the mark by what seemed like lazy writing or a desire to push the series into a magical direction that I am not in the least bit interested in.


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

matt m said:


> There is internal logic, and there is good and bad reading, but the most important thing is whether something is convincing or not.
> 
> Someone used the words 'deus ex machina' a couple of pages back on this thread and they were good words to use.
> 
> ...



I always wanted Doctor Who to actually do time travel stuff. 

Baker 1 had a sort of time travelly paradox when he had to decide whether to prevent the Daleks from ever existing.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 1, 2010)

Santino said:


> I always wanted Doctor Who to actually do time travel stuff.
> 
> Baker 1 had a sort of time travelly paradox when he had to decide whether to prevent the Daleks from ever existing.



Or, he wouldn't save Adric (don't blame him) because that would have messed with Earth's history but wasn't Perri saved and lived happily ever after with Brian Blessed?

Also, those ridiculous stories where the Doctor met earlier incarnations?

I always thought they were out of step with the time travel stuff.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

matt m said:


> Am I right or wrong in thinking that the old Dr Whos didn't really mess about with the paradoxes of time travel overmuch? I don't remember characters often going back over their own timelives at all, let alone the Dr. It was generally the Dr just using the Tardis to get from A-B, whatever period of history that was.



You are right. He barely visited the same places twice. McCoy once visited the school his grandaugter went to in the 60s I think. I think they might have even been past the yard where he used to keep the TARDIS.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

yeah, but it won't wash (much like your mum etc), You aren't going to get 50 mins of story if the Doc can just go 'You know what, I'll pop back a bit and dtail to myself the epic cuntitude I am going to face and that way my future self will just pwn on everybody'


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

I seem to remember him getting separated from the TARDIS a lot in the 80s.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You are right. He barely visited the same places twice. McCoy once visited the school his grandaugter went to in the 60s I think. I think they might have even been past the yard where he used to keep the TARDIS.



Baker (Colin) did that too, whilst the chameleon circuit was "working"...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

jer said:


> but wasn't Perri saved and lived happily ever after with Brian Blessed?
> .



Nah, Perry never died. What you saw was the time matrix after it had been tampered with. It never happened. *Spits*


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 1, 2010)

I enjoyed it. A lot. 

Yeah it didn't all make sense and there was doses of deus ex machina and there was a healthy dollop of sentimental cheese. 

On the other hand there it was full of energy, invention, good performances, good writing, emotional engagment, suprises and tension. And it was mostly consistant with its own internal logic. 

For me the latter significently eclipsed the former. Under RTD it was very much the opposite. 

The opening sequence with Amy in the box was brilliant.
The crusty dalek was cool and  scary. 
The story of rory guarding the box for 2000 years was genuninely moving - shades of the lump-in-throat inducing story of the steadfast tin soldier. 
The somehting old, new, borrowed, blue thing was win.   
The deadpan young amy was great.

And Matt Smith I salute you. 

Roll on next series!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

Santino said:


> I seem to remember him getting separated from the TARDIS a lot in the 80s.



That was always key to the story. No TARDIS no quick escape. It's the same reason the writers hated K9 and the sonic screwdriver, it was always too easy to get out of a spot. Both were destroyed. K9 would have gone waaaay sooner if he wasn't so popular. That would have made me a very sad lad though, I seem to remember even being pretty upset when Davison dropped the sonic screwdriver.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

wasn't Silver Swordsman Pertwee's era about how he couldn't fix the TARDIS and this inability was punishment by the Time Lord massif?


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> wasn't Silver Swordsman Pertwee's era about how he couldn't fix the TARDIS and this inability was punishment by the Time Lord massif?



I thought the Master had half-inched it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2010)

IIRC it had been spannered by the Time Lords because they basically considered the Doctor to be an inteferring cunt who had blates TWOCed a type 40. But they allowed him to carry on his bidness on earth (after fucking his TARDIS up). I swear he was forever tinkering with something or other when Lethbridge Stewart would intrude and Pertwee would be all acerbic at him.


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2010)

It was basically Fringe.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> That was always key to the story. No TARDIS no quick escape. It's the same reason the writers hated K9 and the sonic screwdriver, it was always too easy to get out of a spot. Both were destroyed. K9 would have gone waaaay sooner if he wasn't so popular. That would have made me a very sad lad though, *I seem to remember even being pretty upset when Davison dropped the sonic screwdriver*.



The Visitation. I think he said "it's like losing an old friend". Whereas precocious moi said it's like losing a handy tidy up the plot device 

Still thought that story (Saward?) was excellent.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 1, 2010)

jer said:


> The Visitation. I think he said "it's like losing an old friend". Whereas precocious moi said it's like losing a handy tidy up the plot device
> 
> Still thought that story (Saward?) was excellent.



Didn't it start the fire of London or something? Or was that in his Dalek one?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 1, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Didn't it start the fire of London or something? Or was that in his Dalek one?



No, correct first time. Pudding Lane, the camera zoomed in on that, IIRC.

Jesus. How do I remember this stuff?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 1, 2010)

No, you're right. Terileptils.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 1, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> No, you're right. Terileptils.



Were they any relation to the Zygons? Kinda looked similar...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 1, 2010)

jer said:


> Were they any relation to the Zygons? Kinda looked similar...


 
As do Silurians. All sorts of funny business might have been going on.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 1, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> As do Silurians. All sorts of funny business might have been going on.



Well, the Silurians (all 3 branches) and the Sea Devils were certainly related. But the Tels and Zygons were off worlders, whereas aforementioned were original inhabitants of this planet.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 1, 2010)

jer said:


> Well, the Silurians (all 3 branches) and the Sea Devils were certainly related. But the Tels and Zygons were off worlders, whereas aforementioned were original inhabitants of this planet.


 
There's presumably a reason why six-foot bipeds are ubiquitous across the universe: common origin is the most likely.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 1, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> There's presumably a reason why six-foot bipeds are ubiquitous across the universe: common origin is the most likely.



Now that sounds suspiciously like a Star Trek TNG story in one of it's later seasons


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

ok, just watched the last episode and it made up to some extent for the fluff of episodes 1-11... i notice that the whole 'meeting yourself results in certain death' thing was conveniently forgotten.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> There's presumably a reason why six-foot bipeds are ubiquitous across the universe: common origin is the most likely.



or poor budgeting and slightly tweaked costumes re-used


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> or poor budgeting and slightly tweaked costumes re-used



Oh the cynicism!


----------



## elevendayempire (Jul 2, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> There's presumably a reason why six-foot bipeds are ubiquitous across the universe: common origin is the most likely.


The spin-off novels suggested it was because the Time Lords evolved first and imprinted on the, er, morphic field of the universe, or some such guff.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 2, 2010)

Of course, now it all makes.

 @ self


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 2, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> ok, just watched the last episode and it made up to some extent for the fluff of episodes 1-11... i notice that the whole 'meeting yourself results in certain death' thing was conveniently forgotten.



Didn't they say that that was ok because the universe was so small? Mind you that's daft because you would be a far larger part of the universe and more significant. Plus what would that have to do with it anyway? Plus, he has met himself several times without bothering to mention certain death before.


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Plus, he has met himself several times without bothering to mention certain death before.



if you're referring to the multiple doctor stories i think that was 'allowed' but same regeneration meetings weren't. i'm trying to remember which story they dealt with this, possibly 'timeflight' where the doctor had to be kept apart from himself to prevent disaster. someone did meet themselves (i.e. a 'zero regeneration' human) and died.

anyhoo...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 2, 2010)

I see.


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I see.





let's hope the next series is a bit more balanced.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 2, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> let's hope the next series is a bit more balanced.



New Dr Who....balanced? Lolz....


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> New Dr Who....balanced? Lolz....



as in quality spread out rather than stuffed mostly in the last two episodes.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 2, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> New Dr Who....balanced? Lolz....



Neil Gaiman will bring order to the Whoniverse. And chaos.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 2, 2010)

jer said:


> Neil Gaiman will bring order to the Whoniverse. And chaos.



and hopefully lucifer


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 2, 2010)

ruffneck23 said:


> and hopefully lucifer



I dunno, we've had the Satan Pit, the Daemons, Abbadon in Torchwood and the Malus... ah, one more demonic adversary won't make that much difference...


----------



## Iguana (Jul 2, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> someone did meet themselves (i.e. a 'zero regeneration' human) and died.



In Father's Day I think 10 told Rose not to get too close to baby Rose or it would have dire consequences, though she'd already fucked up reality at that point.

I did get this wrong before, earlier on this thread IIRC, but I think I'm right this time.


----------



## innit (Jul 2, 2010)

Iguana said:


> In Father's Day I think 10 told Rose not to get too close to baby Rose or it would have dire consequences, though she'd already fucked up reality at that point.
> 
> I did get this wrong before, earlier on this thread IIRC, but I think I'm right this time.



it was ecclescake


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> Could only have been improved if they _hadn't_ shot the fez, just slung it off the side of the building. Imagine if it had risen serenely back up, having landed on top of the Dalek...



They missed a fucking trick with that one, that's for sure.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 2, 2010)

innit said:


> it was ecclescake



Damnitt!  I was just going back to edit it.

Anyway it's the Blinovitch Limitation Effect
.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 2, 2010)

Gotta be honest, I have very little problem with the idea of Pond touching herself


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 2, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Gotta be honest, I have very little problem with the idea of Pond touching herself


----------



## Helen Back (Jul 2, 2010)

Right - Adult Pond touches younger Pond - 12 years difference, the two Ponds would have completely different atoms.

Also Amy remarks that it must be 1996 which dates the Doctor's arrival in Eleventh Hour (remember that debate?)


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Right - Adult Pond touches younger Pond - 12 years difference, the two Ponds would have completely different atoms.



yes, i thought that wasn't 'allowed'. was it 'timeflight' where they deal with this most thorny of issues?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 2, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> yes, i thought that wasn't 'allowed'. was it 'timeflight' where they deal with this most thorny of issues?



Gawd, I can't remember that episode at all. It's highly unlikely I missed an episode during that period, which leads me to believe that is fairly unmemorable, and almost certainly shit. Now I have to buy it. I blame you. Lend me a tenner.


----------



## Helen Back (Jul 2, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Gawd, I can't remember that episode at all. It's highly unlikely I missed an episode during that period, which leads me to believe that is fairly unmemorable, and almost certainly shit. Now I have to buy it. I blame you. Lend me a tenner.



Save yourself the money, I've recently watched that story and it has nothing to do with meeting yourself stuff. 

And yes it is shit.


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

a tenner will buy you both 'timeflight' and 'arc of infinity' - 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1278095673&sr=8-1


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> Save yourself the money, I've recently watched that story and it has nothing to do with meeting yourself stuff.



my mistake, it was 'mawdryn undead'.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 2, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> a tenner will buy you both 'timeflight' and 'arc of infinity' -
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1278095673&sr=8-1



Like I said. Lend me a tenner.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 2, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> my mistake, it was 'mawdryn undead'.



And another fiver for that one.


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> And another fiver for that one.



part of 'the black guardian trilogy' so that's 15 large actually.

i live up the road from you and have all those so if you're *really* desperate let me know.....


----------



## Quartz (Jul 2, 2010)

The voice in the Tardis: is it just me or did it sound *very* much like Davros?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2010)

Re-watching mawydrn undead on the youtube. The lack guardian is like a comedy Dom.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 2, 2010)

Are you thinking of the way he shouts "boy!" at Turlough?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 2, 2010)

Quartz said:


> The voice in the Tardis: is it just me or did it sound *very* much like Davros?


No, my flatemate and I thought similar


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Are you thinking of the way he shouts "boy!" at Turlough?



He protests a bit before caving in just like a good sub.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 2, 2010)

Nah not really. And while Davros has form when it comes to destroying the universe, he wouldn't wipe out his Daleks as well.


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 2, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> He protests a bit before caving in just like a good sub.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2010)

not _his_ daleks no. But then it has long been established that his creation got away from him, hence the emporer daleks and Starvroses own white with gold studs daleks.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 2, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Nah not really. And while Davros has form when it comes to destroying the universe, he wouldn't wipe out his Daleks as well.


I was about to say didn't he try that when he met DT, but wasn't it actually the Daleks that were going to destroy the universe and Davros got conned?

I'm really out of my depth on this thread


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 3, 2010)

He was going to destroy everything except the Daleks that time.

And it's not going to be Davros. Now that we've seen him in the new series there's no real need for all the suspense.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 3, 2010)

If a future or alternate version of the doctor is responsible some of the things that don't make sense suddenly do. Why were all the enemies there? Because someone brought them all together and helped them in the design of the Pandorica. It may actually have been designed to keep the doctor safe from an exploding Tardis rather than to imprison him. The fact that it could also be used to save the universe was an unfortunate consequence.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> He was going to destroy everything except the Daleks that time.



was he?  i thought it was all out destruction  like  that  discussion about the virus




> *Doctor*: "Davros, if you had created a virus in your laboratory, something contagious and infectious that killed on contact, a virus that would destroy all other forms of life...would you allow its use?"
> *Davros*: "It is an...interesting conjecture."
> *Doctor*: "Would you do it?"
> *Davros*: "The only living thing, the microscopic organism...reigning supreme. A fascinating idea."
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 3, 2010)

the doc left him alive tho, he may have survived. despite being kept by the emperor dalek as some sort of mascot/pet he still had power and we saw the ship blow up around him but not his actual death. He will be back.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2010)

but hopefully  in a bit of a longer role...   he works better  when  he and the doctor  face off and talk   the two intellects battling   rather than just using him  as  direct scary bad guy

it like  the master...  when delagardo faced off pertwee... awesome

although...

HAA!!!!!!


----------



## matt m (Jul 3, 2010)

Sylvester McCoy was in the audience of the gig I played last night.

He hung afterwards getting pissed with various members of the cast of the London stage show Calendar Girls.

oh, the glamorous life I lead...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i live up the road from you and have all those so if you're *really* desperate let me know.....



You live at the end of my road?

I still have 8 who DVDs that I not gotten around to watching (though I have watched the first ep and extras of most). BGT and EST are next on my list though.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> although...
> 
> HAA!!!!!!




Did he just say Akira? Or Aikido or something??

Great fight, I should get this one two.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2010)

i think he makes refrence to Venusian akido  at one point   and  how   not having 5 legs is  a draw back


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2010)

and yes   the sea devils  is  a proper classic... has the  master watching the clangers


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2010)

Sweet. Why is the master in an adventure about sea devils?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2010)

because he is awesome

he was going to be the big enemy


unfortunaly  delagardo   had a car accident   and pasted away


 we really need a return  to the   cool master...  and  simms could do it...    it's just new doctor who needs   a bit  of   redirection


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> because he is awesome
> 
> he was going to be the big enemy
> 
> ...



Yes I think Simms could be good but the writing has all been a bit daft so far. Everything has been a bit over the top, they made every encounter too much of an over the top event.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 3, 2010)

yes!

very much so

the  doctor doesn't make enamies based on power    he  has  a soul  and  it's those who go against  that  that   fear the the  retribution of the doc

you  are a proper doc-head  ignore the idots that     talk about family entertainment

i say that doctor who is more engraved on your flesh  than any tattoo

in this case i am happy to call you nakama  though i apologise for the inconvenience


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 3, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You live at the end of my road?
> 
> I still have 8 who DVDs that I not gotten around to watching (though I have watched the first ep and extras of most). BGT and EST are next on my list though.



well...

crystal palace. feel free to pm me or alternatively i can accost you in 'the prince albert' again!


----------



## nicksonic (Jul 3, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> and yes   the sea devils  is  a proper classic... has the  master watching the clangers



'warriors of the deep' is absolutely brilliant.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 3, 2010)

nicksonic said:


> i can accost you in 'the prince albert' again!



That sounds painful.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> yes!
> 
> 
> you  are a proper doc-head  ignore the idots that     talk about family entertainment
> ...



Ha ha, for some reason that has be glowing with pride though I know it damn well shouldn't. Shouldn't be damned. I don't know if I am a true Who head, I think I was just a boy at the right time (mind you that makes everyone who was born after the 60s just about the same). It was just such an important part of my childhood, like christmas ever single week. Who all watched the first 'book tower' just because it was Tom Bakers first 'thing' since Dr Who? I remember being gutted when it was only a guest slot, but watched the (boring as fuck) book tower every week just in case Tom did another voice over. Kids eh?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2010)

Just been watching the Tenth Planet. I can't believe I have lived this long without doing the original cyberman voice for everything "would yooou. . . . . like . . aaaaaa . . . cup of. . . teeeea?"
I'm sure they didn't talk like that later in 'Tomb'. The nights that say "ni" are a blatant rip off.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 3, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Just been watching the Tenth Planet. I can't believe I have lived this long without doing the original cyberman voice for everything "would yooou. . . . . like . . aaaaaa . . . cup of. . . teeeea?"
> I'm sure they didn't talk like that later in 'Tomb'. The nights that say "ni" are a blatant rip off.



Really hated the original cybermen voices.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Really hated the original cybermen voices.



I think they are awesome but it will always be the 80s look and the "excellent" for me.

After all, they are the ones that led to the demise of Adric (who I have to admit I thought was pretty great for some reason at the time).


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 3, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think they are awesome but it will always be the 80s look and the "excellent" for me.
> 
> After all, they are the ones that led to the demise of Adric (who I have to admit I thought was pretty great for some reason at the time).



Didn't mind Adric myself.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 4, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Didn't mind Adric myself.



I didn't at the time, but re-watching the episodes with him in on DVD sends my cringe o meter into overdrive.  Nissa annoyed me as a kid and still does and Teegan was just plain whiney. The TARDIS was full of back actors back then, only Davison held it together. On the four to Doomsday DVD there is long section on unedited studio taping (Davisons first day). It really shows how everyone else can't act for shit and that Davison is a professional. 

Wasn't Nissa in something to do with the moon and some ponies?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 4, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ha ha, for some reason that has be glowing with pride though I know it damn well shouldn't. Shouldn't be damned. I don't know if I am a true Who head, I think I was just a boy at the right time (mind you that makes everyone who was born after the 60s just about the same). It was just such an important part of my childhood, like christmas ever single week. Who all watched the first 'book tower' just because it was Tom Bakers first 'thing' since Dr Who? I remember being gutted when it was only a guest slot, but watched the (boring as fuck) book tower every week just in case Tom did another voice over. Kids eh?



honestly i think that's enough  of a fan....  for mostthings

that last post was a little over the top as i had just consumed a whole 1.8L bottle of  sake


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 5, 2010)

Shippou-Chan said:


> that last post was a little over the top as i had just consumed a whole 1.8L bottle of  sake



I kind of thought that had been the case.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2010)

i still fairly much stand by my words .. in vino veritas  and all that


----------



## elevendayempire (Jul 5, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Just been watching the Tenth Planet. I can't believe I have lived this long without doing the original cyberman voice for everything "would yooou. . . . . like . . aaaaaa . . . cup of. . . teeeea?"
> I'm sure they didn't talk like that later in 'Tomb'. The nights that say "ni" are a blatant rip off.


They turn up again in this audio play, which is 1) jolly good and 2) has those hilarious old-school Cyberman voices.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 5, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> They turn up again in this audio play, which is 1) jolly good and 2) has those hilarious old-school Cyberman voices.



Sounds good. Where is Teegan? I thought Nissa went first.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 5, 2010)

Its set when Tegan left for a bit before the Doctor picked her up again in Amsterdam(as you do).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 5, 2010)

CNT36 said:


> Its set when Tegan left for a bit before the Doctor picked her up again in Amsterdam(as you do).



Ugh. And she didn't bother buying any new clothes while she was there?


----------



## strung out (Nov 11, 2010)

the script for the first two episodes of the new series is lying on my kitchen table


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 12, 2010)

Any good?


----------



## Balbi (Nov 12, 2010)

strung out said:


> the script for the first two episodes of the new series is lying on my kitchen table


 


GIMME.


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## strung out (Nov 12, 2010)

gone now 

i wouldn't read them anyway. would rather see them on telly for the first time without knowing


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## Helen Back (Nov 12, 2010)

strung out said:


> the script for the first two episodes of the new series is lying on my kitchen table


 
And how did this situation come about?


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 12, 2010)

Helen Back said:


> And how did this situation come about?


 
Also wondering this.  

Bet strung outs bullshitting.


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## ruffneck23 (Nov 12, 2010)

strung out is Amy pond and i claim my £5


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## strung out (Nov 12, 2010)

sorry, better not say in public. i didn't look at them anyway, i'd rather wait til they're shown on telly


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 12, 2010)




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## belboid (Nov 12, 2010)

I reckon they were an official BBC Heritage release flung back in time by a Large Hadron Collider generated wormhole.  Now collected by the official State Aardvark, and strung out sworn never to talk of it again


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## strung out (Nov 12, 2010)

oops, my mistake. it was episodes 5 and 6. obv.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 12, 2010)

strung out said:


> oops, my mistake. it was episodes 5 and 6. obv.



That's worse. Ep 6 is going to be the series break cliffhanger.


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## belboid (Nov 17, 2010)

just notice what seems to be a new DW novel in Waterstones, by Michael Moorcock.  Anyone read it by any chance yet?  I was almost tempted by it, but then saw sense (being skint, and most DW books being rubbish)


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## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2010)

moorcock? I thought he was dead!


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## Stigmata (Nov 19, 2010)

From an Amazon review:



> Filled with journeys across dimensions, space pirates in Phantom of the opera masks flying the jolly roger, Judoon playing the doctor at the sport of nutcracking, the mysterious disappearance of a hat, romance between the best friend of Robin of Loxley and the daughter of a terraforming businessman, an invisible thief, centaurs,and archery.



Might be worth a look.


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## andy2002 (Nov 19, 2010)

belboid said:


> just notice what seems to be a new DW novel in Waterstones, by Michael Moorcock.  Anyone read it by any chance yet?  I was almost tempted by it, but then saw sense (being skint, and most DW books being rubbish)


 
There's a review of it here...

www.sfx.co.uk/2010/10/15/book-review-doctor-who-the-coming-of-the-terraphiles-–-michael-moorcock/


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## elevendayempire (Nov 19, 2010)

I'd heard they might be getting Stephen Baxter to do a Who novel if the Moorcock one sells well. They seem to be aiming to do these "prestige" Who novels from big-name writers once a year, aimed at a slightly more mature audience than the kid-friendly regular range of novels. Fingers crossed they get Neil Gaiman to do one eventually (yes, I know he's doing an episode for the TV series, but imagine a Gaiman Who _novel_...).

ETA: Or - ooh - a Stephen Fry Who novel. He's done time travel before, with Making History. Hell, he could just adapt his unfilmed Who script for the screen, ISTR them saying it was axed because it was too expensive to film...


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## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2010)

Given his ability to tap tap at the root of englishy fantasy I reckon Gaiman would be fantastic at penning a Who novel- get Stross to do an episode and Gaiman to do a book. Win-win.


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## Stigmata (Nov 19, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> ETA: Or - ooh - a Stephen Fry Who novel. He's done time travel before, with Making History. Hell, he could just adapt his unfilmed Who script for the screen, ISTR them saying it was axed because it was too expensive to film...


 
I heard that it actually wasn't very good. Gaiman would be good though. As would Pratchett if he's still up to the task. Joss Whedon's a fan of the show but said he was incapable of writing for _Who_ and that he'd just ruin it. Which is probably true.


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## hektik (Dec 16, 2010)

xmas special looks as though it could either be brilliant, or spectacularly bad. a flying shark? WHAT?

in the meantime, some pics of karen gillan. http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/gallery/615/karen-gillan-wants-a-word#item-10


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 16, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> Joss Whedon's a fan of the show but said he was incapable of writing for _Who_ and that he'd just ruin it. Which is probably true.


 
bit like RTD then...


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 25, 2010)

Who saw the christmas special then? I thought it was fucking brilliant, the perfect blend of weirdness, humour, suspense and unashamed cheesiness. Mrs Frank was in tears by the end. And all this despite seeing very little of the lovely Amy Pond in her tiny tiny skirt...


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## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

It was ok, got a bit sickly. loved the setting though, looked great in steampunk kind o' way.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

I gave up on it after 20 mins, dunno, didn't get it. Was abit 'too cheesy' for me i think.


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## killer b (Dec 25, 2010)

yeah, it was excellent. i didn't even hate katherine jenkins.


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## pigtails (Dec 25, 2010)

Didn't quite work for me, I enjoyed it but it wasn't a classic.


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## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

I was a bit disapointed by that too, but hey, it's a crimbo special, they are almost legally obliged to be cheesy which is a shame.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 25, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Who saw the christmas special then? I thought it was fucking brilliant, the perfect blend of weirdness, humour, suspense and unashamed cheesiness. Mrs Frank was in tears by the end. And all this despite seeing very little of the lovely Amy Pond in her tiny tiny skirt...



This. And some great lines. I had a bit of a well up a couple of times. Magic.


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## pigtails (Dec 25, 2010)

killer b said:


> yeah, it was excellent. i didn't even hate katherine jenkins.


 
How could you ever hate her..... she's lovely!


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## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> This. And some great lines. I had a bit of a well up a couple of times. Magic.


 
It did have some excellent lines and I especially liked the idea that Xmas is important because we are halfway through the darkness or whatever it was and it's a universal celebration not a christian one. Winterval for the win! I also laughed out loud at the bit about not kissing girls because there is a screwdriver to design and one other one I really liked.


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## yardbird (Dec 25, 2010)

I enjoyed it and Katherine Jenkins is lovely.


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## strung out (Dec 25, 2010)

it was ok. second half was pretty good.


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## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

strung out said:


> it was ok. second half was pretty good.


 
See, I thought the first half was great and the second half all a bit meh.


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## spanglechick (Dec 26, 2010)

I liked the gag about [obvious anagram of Charles dickens] Being twelve and so leaving the underside of his bed - implying a porn stash. 


I also usually hate katherine thingy, but didn't think she was so bad.

So, at the end, how were the clouds going to be controlled from then on. Machine wouldn't obey him and distinct lack of tragically wan opera singers in the freezer.


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## andy2002 (Dec 26, 2010)

Best Who Christmas special by a considerable margin. Wasn't entirely convinced by the first Moffat series of Who but this was a real return to the form of Blink and Girl In The Fireplace.


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## killer b (Dec 26, 2010)

gosh. i wouldn't go that far...


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## andy2002 (Dec 26, 2010)

killer b said:


> gosh. i wouldn't go that far...


 
Why? A lot of the other Christmas specials have been mediocre to average at best.


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## killer b (Dec 26, 2010)

oh, it's the best xmas special by some distance, but that doesn't make it comparable with blink, which is probably the best episode ever. it was still a lightweight festive romp.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 26, 2010)

killer b said:


> oh, it's the best xmas special by some distance, but that doesn't make it comparable with blink, which is probably the best episode ever. it was still a lightweight festive romp.



It doesn't compare with Blink, no - nothing does, for an all-round mixture of scary, time-bending, and sob-your-daft-eyes-out ("it's the same rain"), but it was better than at least a couple of the last series. And for a Christmas Special, that's good.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 26, 2010)

Brilliant, and I heart Katherine Jenkins.

Also you can't complain that it's cheesy it's a Dr Who Christmas special!


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## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 26, 2010)

Brilliant, and I heart Katherine Jenkins.

Also you can't complain that it's cheesy it's a Dr Who Christmas special!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 26, 2010)

it was alright

yeah  somewhat cheesy xmass story but then it is an xmass special

intresting the had the balls to keep the death ending


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## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2010)

no way near enough pond, but what there was of here was in a coppers uniform so happy days.


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## elevendayempire (Dec 26, 2010)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> it was alright
> 
> yeah  somewhat cheesy xmass story but then it is an xmass special
> 
> intresting the had the balls to keep the death ending


It's all lovely and romantic, that ending, but I kept thinking in a few hours time she's probably going to be coughing up blood and shitting out her kidneys...


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 26, 2010)

Am I missing something but why didn't the dr even attempt to try and save her?


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## Pingu (Dec 26, 2010)

enjoyed that. as christmas specials go it was ace.

and to put something in perspective. on x factor they harped on about what a great voice rebecca had... soryy but compared to jenkins she sounds like a pub singer (vic reeves stylee)


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## Limejuice (Dec 26, 2010)

I want a pint of whatever Moffat was drinking when he dreamed up the gag of fish swimming in clouds. As for song soothing the heart of the savage beast, dear God.

Throughout the whole sad effort my wife and daughter both kept shouting at the screen whenever Ms Jenkins appeared: "Do yer roots, dear! You must have the money."

An utter appalling waste of an excellent Gambon, and the kid acted well too.

The rest? Pfft. Pass the Andrex.


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## Pingu (Dec 26, 2010)

pah

i bet you laugh when tiny tim dies in the muppet christmas carol too


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## Strumpet (Dec 26, 2010)

Enjoyed that


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 26, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> It's all lovely and romantic, that ending, but I kept thinking in a few hours time she's probably going to be coughing up blood and shitting out her kidneys...


 
it is preety girl sickness

it's always left a little vauge  but  tend to  leave them a little out of breath prone to fevers and in serious cases  coughing  up a tiny bit of blood into a hankey  so  we can be reminded that they are ill

basically she has space TB


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## janeb (Dec 26, 2010)

I loved it, thought Gambon was amazing and also the young lad, and it totally reconfirmed my view that Smith is the best dr there has ever been, he is so alien / stern / serious / funny / enthusiastic / sad all at the same time. Am going to be devestated when he goes


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## QueenOfGoths (Dec 26, 2010)

I really enjoyed it - kind of unassuming at first but with a bit of depth to the story, great performance from Micheal Gambon and the little boy plus Katherine Jenkins proved herself a good performer. Cheesy but then if you can't have cheesiness at Christmas when can you!


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## Strumpet (Dec 26, 2010)

Yeh I never thought Id like anyone after yummy David but Matt is great imo too


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## ddraig (Dec 26, 2010)

can't believe there's no 'jumping the shark' remarks!
slackers 

it was cheesy ai, fun and mad in parts, did wonder whether it was a bbc Wales condition to have singing save the world!


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 26, 2010)

Meh. Underwhelmed.


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## badlands (Dec 26, 2010)

thought it was poor.

La Jetee mixed with Dickens.

Moffatt loves Chris Marker it seems.


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## strung out (Dec 26, 2010)

Pingu said:


> enjoyed that. as christmas specials go it was ace.
> 
> and to put something in perspective. on x factor they harped on about what a great voice rebecca had... soryy but compared to jenkins she sounds like a pub singer (vic reeves stylee)


 
they're hardly comparable though! jenkins is classically trained and has been performing to a high standard for at least the last 15 years. rebecca is 24 and has been singing in her spare time.


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## Santino (Dec 26, 2010)

So future Scrooge is an evil rich tyrant who owns Sky - er, I mean, the sky.


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## Pingu (Dec 26, 2010)

strung out said:


> they're hardly comparable though! jenkins is classically trained and has been performing to a high standard for at least the last 15 years. rebecca is 24 and has been singing in her spare time.


 
my point still stands though. the reasons why may be a bit unfair but....

anyhow am going round to friends house to get drunk and play guitar hero.. so any comparisons with anyone who actually may be able to sing in any way whatsoever are putting me in mind of a sayoing about glass houses and stones...


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## claphamboy (Dec 26, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Meh. Underwhelmed.


 
This ^^^


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## ericjarvis (Dec 26, 2010)

It epitomised absolutely everything I abhor about Christmas. As such I suppose it was the perfect Christmas Special.


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## zoooo (Dec 26, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Meh. Underwhelmed.



Same.

BUT, the trailer for next series did look like it might have some very good stuff in it.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 27, 2010)

ericjarvis said:


> It epitomised absolutely everything I abhor about Christmas. As such I suppose it was the perfect Christmas Special.


 

Had you really always thought "Ugh. Katharine Jenkins. Humbug!" even as a nipper?


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## Fullyplumped (Dec 27, 2010)

strung out said:


> they're hardly comparable though! jenkins is classically trained and has been performing to a high standard for at least the last 15 years. rebecca is 24 and has been singing in her spare time.


 
And hence, Katherine Jenkins is a better singer.


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## strung out (Dec 27, 2010)

well yes. but she doesn't really make rebecca sound like a pub singer though, which was kind of my point.


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## ginger_syn (Dec 27, 2010)

I enjoyed this christmas special , very entertaining and 'though I dont like Jenkins voice  they didn't over do it and at least they waited until the end to stick the silence is falling referance in.


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## 8den (Dec 27, 2010)

Limejuice said:


> The rest? Pfft. Pass the Andrex.


 

For Amy Pond in the police uniform?


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 28, 2010)

Fullyplumped said:


> And hence, Katherine Jenkins is a better singer.


 
depends what they're singing though? 

She's an opera singer. She would sound shit singing punk rock.

Anyway - Thought the eposode has lots of imagination and excellent performances and worked. Didn't do much for me as I prefer my dr who to have scary monsters and excitement - but I was entertained.


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## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

she's not an opera singer though


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## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 28, 2010)

strung out said:


> she's not an opera singer though



She's a proper mezzo-soprano, and a good one.


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## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

still not an opera singer, because, err... she's never done any opera.


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## killer b (Dec 28, 2010)

She's a rubbish singer, tbf.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 28, 2010)

I loathe that kind of singing. Jenkins, I mean, not Ferguson.


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## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

she's a pop/classical crossover singer, not an opera singer. she's decent at what she does though.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 28, 2010)

Like Hayley Westenra. Popera. Although I did like some of the tunes she did for Endless Ocean for the Wii.


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## killer b (Dec 28, 2010)

She's the jack vettriano of classical music.


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## scifisam (Dec 28, 2010)

I had no idea the popsicle woman was anyone famous - she seemed like a fine actress to me. I liked that they didn't do a literal Christmas Carol, and messing with someone's memories like that is classic dodgy/nice Dr Who.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 28, 2010)

strung out said:


> still not an opera singer, because, err... she's never done any opera.



Looks like she has? *checks discography* OK though, I see where you are coming from. She's done a lot of popular stuff, mostly in studios. That's where the cash is I guess, particularly for someone so remarkably marketable looks-wise. She's still a good singer, mind.


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## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

scifisam said:


> I had no idea the popsicle woman was anyone famous - she seemed like a fine actress to me. I liked that they didn't do a literal Christmas Carol, and messing with someone's memories like that is classic dodgy/nice Dr Who.


 
she was pretty decent tbf. first acting she's ever done apparently.


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## killer b (Dec 28, 2010)

She was in emmerdale once.


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## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

yeah, i think she just played herself that time. i don't know how much acting playing yourself requires


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 28, 2010)

Judging by many cameos by 'real life' people in programmes and films, at least a little it would seem.


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## Iguana (Dec 28, 2010)

strung out said:


> i don't know how much acting playing yourself requires


 
I suspect it's just as hard to play yourself, if not harder.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 28, 2010)

strung out said:


> she's not an opera singer though


 
still horrible singing though.


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## MikeMcc (Dec 28, 2010)

Just watched it tonight - happy clappy rubbish.  If this is going to be the standard of the Smith's Doctor, then I don't think I'll bother anymore.

Singing fucking carols to try an stabilise the atmosphere and floating fucking fish.  At least make the creatures different from terrestrial fish.  It was cheap and nasty crap.

Bah humbug...


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## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

as someone else said. it was typical christmas fluff. fairly decent by those standards though.

last series with smith was great. more than great actually. if he carries on in that way, he'll confirm his place as my favourite doctor.


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## stuff_it (Dec 28, 2010)

MikeMcc said:


> Just watched it tonight - happy clappy rubbish.  If this is going to be the standard of the Smith's Doctor, *then I don't think I'll bother anymore*.
> 
> Singing fucking carols to try an stabilise the atmosphere and floating fucking fish.  At least make the creatures different from terrestrial fish.  It was cheap and nasty crap.
> 
> Bah humbug...



Don't believe you!


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## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2010)

it fell down entirely because it lacked a decent monster. The shark we feel sorry for- that is not a monster. The protagonist, not a monster. The peril was strangely muted 'have you got a plan doctor' Pond and her roman soldier rory in tow didn't convey tension. Like a few christmas eps it was trying to be all things to all (wo)men and managed to please nobody. 

I can see what it was trying to do, a whimsical neverwhere dark city Doctor Who tale. Even went for those steampunk stylings with the cold coffins and the big console of stops and buttons that resembled a victorian organ keyboard. But the writing wasn't up to scratch. It simply didn't work because the characters didn't work. The self indulgent family chrimbo dinner with frozen womans kin was just a waste of time.


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## kyser_soze (Dec 29, 2010)

Watched 10 mins, switched off in disgust at the unutterably shiteness of it all. Dreadful.


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## strummerville (Dec 29, 2010)

I had a small part in this. Great fun to shoot, to see Matt Smith shooting 6 page dialogue scenes take after take note perfect was incredible. The man is an acting force of nature. Gambon was hilarious, total gent.


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## Gromit (Dec 29, 2010)

MikeMcc said:


> Just watched it tonight - happy clappy rubbish.



Its frigging christmas. Of course they did a feel good show.

My only complaint was how they engineered a whole excuse for their star guest to sing. She sings, could we work that so it saves the day? Lame.

Next week Darcey Brussel Sprout destroys the darleks with her ballet skillz.


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## Santino (Dec 29, 2010)

There was a bit in Miss Marple just now about killing wasps. I wonder if that was why Doctor Who and Agatha Christie fought a giant space wasp a couple of series back.


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## killer b (Dec 29, 2010)

strummerville said:


> I had a small part in this. Great fun to shoot, to see Matt Smith shooting 6 page dialogue scenes take after take note perfect was incredible. The man is an acting force of nature. Gambon was hilarious, total gent.


 
who were you?!


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## killer b (Dec 29, 2010)

actually, it's ok, i remember who you are. imdb has answered...


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## BlueSquareThing (Dec 29, 2010)

killer b said:


> actually, it's ok, i remember who you are. imdb has answered...


 
Who was he?!!


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## killer b (Dec 29, 2010)

that's for strummerville to answer, i'm afraid - i don't know if he wants his real name revealed to the boards...


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## Santino (Dec 29, 2010)

It's actually Vummerstrille.


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## killer b (Dec 29, 2010)

shhh!


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## Santino (Dec 29, 2010)

killer b said:


> shhh!


 
Shhh yourself, Kevin Biller.


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## strummerville (Dec 30, 2010)

Damn! Rumbled...


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## maldwyn (Jan 1, 2011)

Gambon made it, otherwise I'd be demanding my hour back.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 10, 2011)

Just saw Season 5 and came to one conclusion--Matt Smith is one seriously white human being.


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## Santino (Jan 10, 2011)

In what sense?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 10, 2011)

he is not ?


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 10, 2011)

Santino said:


> In what sense?


 
Physically, he's the whitest human being I've ever seen.  There's a shower scene in one eps and looks like a wet, hairless rat.  I can see why they hired him, because he's just a weird looking dude.  

I haven't decided if I like him in the part or not, I think I need another viewing.  He does the frantic/loopy side of the part well, but there's a soulful part that I'm not certain he gets.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 10, 2011)

i think he is much more of an old school doctor  than  ekky or tennant 

though  i would like to see more of a chance to display moments of oldness...  hopefully  the  quite dark tone of  the  upcoming series  will help this


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 10, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> he is not ?


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 10, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i think he is much more of an old school doctor  than  ekky or tennant
> 
> though  i would like to see more of a chance to display moments of oldness...  hopefully  the  quite dark tone of  the  upcoming series  will help this


 
Unfortunately, I probably won't get to see any of that for a couple of years.  

They did have some good tricks this season.  The switch with the Pandorica was a classic gag.


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## kyser_soze (Jan 10, 2011)

You got internet? Get bittorrent.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 10, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> You got internet? Get bittorrent.


 
I may have to.  I've always made it a policy not to use a computer when I'm not working.  I sit in front of one 40/50 hours a week, the last thing I want to do is fiddle with them at home.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 10, 2011)

Yuwipi Woman said:


>


 
kittycat cat-er than cat?


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 10, 2011)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I may have to.  I've always made it a policy not to use a computer when I'm not working.  I sit in front of one 40/50 hours a week, the last thing I want to do is fiddle with them at home.


 
I do the same TBH - but torrenting takes _minutes_.


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