# DUP and Tory f*ck up thread



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2017)

Thought this might be useful for documenting the horrors, incompetence, bigotry etc of the forthcoming coalition of chaos...


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## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2017)

Just parking this here - from 2 June, but none outside the Northern Irish press seemed to pick it up at the time (I spotted it via Google Alerts):

UDA endorses DUP's Pengelly in South Belfast - Foster feeling the heat - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 9, 2017)

What connects Brexit, the DUP, dark money and a Saudi prince?


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## LiamO (Jun 9, 2017)

Ahem...

The DUP, eh? Welcome to your new lizard overlords


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## Cid (Jun 9, 2017)

LiamO said:


> Ahem...
> 
> The DUP, eh? Welcome to your new lizard overlords



Yours is more a schooling on the DUP thread... This one will be the ongoing DUPservative clusterfuck.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jun 9, 2017)

Believing that Giant's Causeway was built by actual giants.


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## SqueakyBumTime (Jun 9, 2017)

They probably think they can do better than a bunch of folks from a small time Internet forum.


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## starfish (Jun 9, 2017)

Fuck the DUP. Bigotted Orange bastards.


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## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Believing that Giant's Causeway was built by actual giants.


I'd like to know their thoughts on Cribbs Causeway shopping mall to the north of Bristol


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 9, 2017)

Cid said:


> Yours is more a schooling on the DUP thread... This one will be the ongoing DUPservative clusterfuck.



Tbh I prefer many threads with slightly differing context, than the mega threads you have zero chance of catching up on if you hold down a full time job and have interests other than the internet.


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## DaveCinzano (Jun 10, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Tbh I prefer many threads with slightly differing context, than the mega threads you have zero chance of catching up on if you hold down a full time job and have interests other than the internet.


We'll have none of that defeatist talk here young laddie


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2017)

Yeah but you can multitask.


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## 8den (Jun 10, 2017)

I'll need to dig up the links, but the DUP/UVF/UDA have had extensive links to the British far right. Fairly certain David Copeland the Admiral Duncan bomber got Loyalist paramilitary training.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2017)

8den said:


> I'll need to dig up the links, but the DUP/UVF/UDA have had extensive links to the British far right. Fairly certain David Copeland the Admiral Duncan bomber got Loyalist paramilitary training.


And the ulster-british alliance


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## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2017)

Cid said:


> This one will be the ongoing DUPservative clusterfuck.



That's what I intend it to be yeah.


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## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Believing that Giant's Causeway was built by actual giants.


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## rich! (Jun 10, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I'd like to know their thoughts on Cribbs Causeway shopping mall to the north of Bristol


It's a mis-spelling of Crips. Bristol slave traders could only ship Bloods to the US, so they had to sell the Crips locally.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 11, 2017)

> BREAK: DUP has NOT yet reached any agreement with the Tories. Sky sources: Downing Street issued the wrong statement in error.



from sky news ireland correspondent. 

oopps


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Believing that Giant's Causeway was built by actual giants.



4000 years ago . And making the visitors centre point this out to the tourists .


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## Raheem (Jun 11, 2017)

Wrong statement in error. What are the chances, eh?


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## Dom Traynor (Jun 11, 2017)

The entertainment is not over yet is it?


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> from sky news ireland correspondent.
> 
> oopps




Something funny going on there . There's been a " fuck me..the DUP  " moment somewhere among the Tory ranks I reckon . or quite possibly somebody with half a brain has had a look at one of the DUP concessions ...thought it through ..and gone " whhoooahh " . If the Tories are going to let orange marches through nationalist districts the " peace process ", Stormont...the lot..is over and done with . It's kaput . And yet it'll be a major DUP demand , if not a key one . That bit on their website about " strengthening British identity and the union " ..that's precisely what that means . Something along those lines .


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## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 11, 2017)

As if one orange wanker in the white house wasn't enough.


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Wrong statement in error. What are the chances, eh?



As slim as a gay brontosaurus line dancing through the Vatican while singing the sash . Pretty much . I'd believe creationism before I'd believe that massive fib .

There's been a huge policy related fuck up already is what's happened .


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> The entertainment is not over yet is it?


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## CrabbedOne (Jun 11, 2017)

It seems all is not well with the CON-DUP pact. The DUP are still not happy with what May is offering them as well as Tories getting itchy about the whole thing being too "Nasty Party". I mean on climate and social issues it's like Donald Trump was US President and you had to work with him. Yes that bad. With the added complication of slanting the British position on island of Ireland issues that only a handful of Tories give a damn about.

However look at the DUP voting record:






From Slugger Our Friends in the North? The DUP and the Tories aren’t ideologically close


> ...
> The DUP were essentially halfway between the two largest parties, tending to vote with Labour on fiscal matters but further to the right on social policy. Bear in mind that this was when the Liberal Democrats were in a coalition government, and therefore voted with the Tories more often than they do now.
> ...


Oh dear, oh dear. Fiscally the DUP are basically Ed Milliband. This could impede May's state shrinking agenda which is the basic Tory mission. At best every time May hacks away public services the DUP will pop up demanding an exception for Northern Ireland. At worst they'll say "Ulster is British" and block it entirely. This is likely to be very divisive amongst Tories.

And then there's the DUP's frustrating preference for not proudly flouncing out of the EU the Customs Union which will inflame Hard Brexiters. Staying in the Customs Union also may not even be something the Brexit talks can achieve at least not with a good deal of grovelling. This is a recipe for Tory humiliation.  

It's these last two things that'll really bugger this up.


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## bi0boy (Jun 11, 2017)

Got to love a graph with no axis labels.


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## gosub (Jun 11, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Got to love a graph with no axis labels.



Lib Dems close to zero.  what more do you need?


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## Artaxerxes (Jun 11, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Something funny going on there . There's been a " fuck me..the DUP  " moment somewhere among the Tory ranks I reckon . or quite possibly somebody with half a brain has had a look at one of the DUP concessions ...thought it through ..and gone " whhoooahh " . If the Tories are going to let orange marches through nationalist districts the " peace process ", Stormont...the lot..is over and done with . It's kaput . And yet it'll be a major DUP demand , if not a key one . That bit on their website about " strengthening British identity and the union " ..that's precisely what that means . Something along those lines .




Maybe they want a hard border and even the conservatives are saying 'you mental bastards are going to start the troubles again'


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## Who PhD (Jun 11, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Believing that Giant's Causeway was built by actual giants.


Believing there are actual giants


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## existentialist (Jun 11, 2017)

SqueakyBumTime said:


> They probably think they can do better than a bunch of folks from a small time Internet forum.


Were you representative of that small forum, they'd probably be right.


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2017)

Peter Hain on TV is saying that the DUP will want a 'soft Brexit'. On what basis is he saying that? I was under the impression they were v strong Leavers.


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## CrabbedOne (Jun 11, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Maybe they want a hard border and even the conservatives are saying 'you mental bastards are going to start the troubles again'


One of the main problems is the DUP like all the Irish parties want to avoid any border control fuckwittery and that implies a Soft Brexit. May having committed to a Hard Brexit will have great difficulty obliging them.

It's May having to concede to what is probably a growing list of DUP whataboutery that's risky for N.I. stability. _Them uns_ getting a string of big concessions on totem issues would send part of SF's base wild.


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## gosub (Jun 11, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Peter Hain on TV is saying that the DUP will want a 'soft Brexit'. On what basis is he saying that? I was under the impression they were v strong Leavers.


Coz they don't want to fuck up the soft border with Eire.  
Plus Scots Tories wants soft Brexit (Davidson didn't want leave at all). Private talks about cross party working groups with Labour.  

We may have fluked the right election result


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## gosub (Jun 11, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> One of the main problems is the DUP like all the Irish parties want to avoid any border control fuckwittery and that implies a Soft Brexit. May having committed to a Hard Brexit will have great difficulty obliging them.
> 
> It's May having to concede to what is probably a growing list of DUP whataboutery that's risky for N.I. stability. _Them uns_ getting a string of big concessions on totem issues would send part of SF's base wild.


Think DUP will get soft Brexit, no United Ireland referendum, free hand on devolved matters such as education and abortion and maybe cheese and pineapple at functions.


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Maybe they want a hard border and even the conservatives are saying 'you mental bastards are going to start the troubles again'




They used to want one with landmines and stuff . Nowadays they're anxious to have one with as little fuss as possible . Ysee there's this thing called logic and they..yknow . Their relationship with it...like with most things..can be somewhat strained .

Take dinosaurs for instance .


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## gosub (Jun 11, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Take dinosaurs for instance .


Ian Paisley is dead.


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

gosub said:


> Ian Paisley is dead.




As I said their relationships with most things..such as dinosaurs...can be somewhat strained.

DUP betrayed me says Paisley


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## DaveCinzano (Jun 11, 2017)

gosub said:


> Think DUP will get soft Brexit, no United Ireland referendum, free hand on devolved matters such as education and abortion and maybe cheese and pineapple at functions.


Plus new building regs - they are for some reason incredibly demanding in their plasterwork preferences, always “never saw render” this, and “never saw render” that.


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## steveo87 (Jun 11, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I'd like to know their thoughts on Cribbs Causeway shopping mall to the north of Bristol


They won't like it, it's open on Sunday.


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## Libertad (Jun 11, 2017)

gosub said:


> maybe cheese and pineapple at functions.



The official DUP policy is that pineapples are the fruit of Satan.


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## Dom Traynor (Jun 11, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Peter Hain on TV is saying that the DUP will want a 'soft Brexit'. On what basis is he saying that? I was under the impression they were v strong Leavers.


They are for soft yet hard Brexit, They're the Sebastian Gray of Brexit


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## CrabbedOne (Jun 11, 2017)

Libertad said:


> The official DUP policy is that pineapples are the fruit of Satan.


_
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them._

Matthew 7:16-20

Coming soon to UK agricultural policy. Well it will give farmers something sustainable to heat their barns with.


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)

News about uda on Twitter


Juy is just around the corner


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> They are for soft yet hard Brexit, They're the Sebastian Gray of Brexit



Basically what they want is the anti immigration stance of UKIP but no interference or hindrance with cross border trade ....because thats money . And they like money . As opposed to " the ethnics " .
They wanted a hard border back in the day when there was a cross border insurgency . Now they realise the imposition of a hard border is one of the surest ways possible to reignite a cross border insurgency .
Also as much as they despise sinn fein they're savvy enough to realise a hard border would greatly diminish sinn Feins standing . And they need that sinn fein standing in order for sinn fein to be able to facilitate token orange marches through some contentious districts . Which they did temporarily a while back as regards Ardoyne until the residents there reorganised themselves in opposition to the orangemen free from Sinn fein influence . There'll be no deals for the Orangemen unless sinn fein can facilitate the deal . Asinn fein face pretty determined opposition at street level these days on issues like that so it's far from an easy job . It's probably impossible frankly but the DUP are counting on their ability to deliver in the future regardless .

So hard brexit = hard border = bad for business, bad for money, bad for sinn fein ,therefore bad for Orangemen in ardoyne and other contentious routes . Therefore bad for DUP .


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Basically what they want is the anti immigration stance of UKIP but no interference or hindrance with cross border trade ....because thats money . And they like money . As opposed to " the ethnics " .
> They wanted a hard border back in the day when there was a cross border insurgency . Now they realise the imposition of a hard border is one of the surest ways possible to reignite a cross border insurgency .
> Also as much as they despise sinn fein they're savvy enough to realise a hard border would greatly diminish sinn Feins standing . And they need that sinn fein standing in order for sinn fein to be able to facilitate token orange marches through some contentious districts . Which they did temporarily a while back as regards Ardoyne until the residents there reorganised themselves in opposition to the orangemen free from Sinn fein influence . There'll be no deals for the Orangemen unless sinn fein can facilitate the deal .
> 
> So hard brexit = hard border = bad for business, bad for money, bad for sinn fein ,therefore bad for Orangemen in ardoyne and other contentious routes . Therefore bad for DUP .



So weird, CR is pretty spot on. 

Plus 10% of ALL EU farm subsidies go to NI farmers. Arlene Foster's first act after Brexit was to call May and insist on the protection of EU farm subsidies. Unionist farmers will want more than the 2020 Guarantee in place. 

Subscribe to read


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Cake and eat it . Theresa May is Marie Antoinette..let the DUP eat cake she cries. Shortly before the Tory mob drag her off to the guillotine .


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)

It's exactly one month to bonfire night!





Nope not shopped.


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## tim (Jun 11, 2017)

gosub said:


> Ian Paisley is dead.



Yes, and long live Ian Paisley


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2017)

One thing I've realised, every single time an orange march happens in the UK or there is a shooting or whatever in Northern Ireland which is linked to Loyalist paramilitaries there are going to be people referring back to the Tory/DUP coalition.


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

8den said:


> Nope not shopped.


May not be shopped, but it's at least 2 years' old - probably 3.


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)

Corax said:


> May not be shopped, but it's at least 2 years' old - probably 3.



So? They haven't changed 

Eleventh Night bonfires across Northern Ireland 2016 [Photos] - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

8den said:


> So? They haven't changed
> 
> Eleventh Night bonfires across Northern Ireland 2016 [Photos] - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


Not saying they have, just clarifying that this wasn't a show of enthusiasm at recent events by building the bonfire a month ahead - as could _potentially_ have been read from your post.  Point of information, that's all.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2017)

J Ed said:


> One thing I've realised, every single time an orange march happens in the UK or there is a shooting or whatever in Northern Ireland which is linked to Loyalist paramilitaries there are going to be people referring back to the Tory/DUP coalition.


its always been weird how such a heavily policed and often contentious- to the point of shots and burning cars- season just passes by as normal and gets a litle mention as third item on the beeb. If it was a city in the rest of the union there would be headlines in the boldest of fonts


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)

Corax said:


> Not saying they have, just clarifying that this wasn't a show of enthusiasm at recent events by building the bonfire a month ahead - as could _potentially_ have been read from your post.  Point of information, that's all.



The bonfires are already starting a month ahead. I'll be driving up to Belfast this evening, and I'll see plenty of "pallets wanted" or "will buy pallets" signs while I'm heading up there.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 11, 2017)

Question: Do DUP leaders generally attend marches as a matter of course? Enormous potential for mischief in marching season if so.


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> its always been weird how such a heavily policed and often contentious- to the point of shots and burning cars- season just passes by as normal and gets a litle mention as third item on the beeb. If it was a city in the rest of the union there would be headlines in the boldest of fonts



This is the New IRA, but it happened on Monday. Imagine if one of these fellas was called Achmed. 

'IRA bomb plot foiled' after gardai seize explosives in Dublin | Buzz.ie


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Corax said:


> May not be shopped, but it's at least 2 years' old - probably 3.



There's no polish flags on it so it's either old or they're just not trying hard enough to offend everyone .

Here we have the poles lumped in with the Palestinians







And let's not forget the Chinese either. A great bunch of lads .







And as for those Fenian bastards from the Ivory coast...


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Question: Do DUP leaders generally attend marches as a matter of course? Enormous potential for mischief in marching season if so.



That reminds me of  one of the most depressing images during the 90s, David Trimble and Ian Paisley Snr marching down Dumcree

Drumcree 'dance' that spawned a monster - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


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## 8den (Jun 11, 2017)




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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Question: Do DUP leaders generally attend marches as a matter of course? Enormous potential for mischief in marching season if so.



Of course they do ..they have to pretty much. They even turn up and light some of these bonfires / hate pyres. Here's DUP minister Paul Givan doing exactly that just last year .







This is actually an offence . Reminds me of the fucking ku klux klan that pic .

Eta

A few more of them

Criticism after DUP minister lights Eleventh Night bonfire

Best one was Kinahan..a UU minister claiming the Irish flag was on top of the bonfire he attended as a tribute to inclusivity or some such shit . They're fucking unreal.


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## Ming (Jun 11, 2017)

I think i might have mentioned this before but my mum trod on Ian Paisley's foot by accident and refused to apologise when she saw who it was (she was an Irish Catholic).


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## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

Actually now I've just realised...just had a " ddoh " moment.

That's why they don't believe in global warming and climate change. It's because of their massive fucking bonfires !!

Can't believe I never picked up on that before .


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> its always been weird how such a heavily policed and often contentious- to the point of shots and burning cars- season just passes by as normal and gets a litle mention as third item on the beeb. If it was a city in the rest of the union there would be headlines in the boldest of fonts



Yes, another complete failing of the media in this country.

Actually it never used to be this bad, Northern Ireland was covered pretty extensively in the early 2000s.


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 11, 2017)

What is this about the DUP demanding Farge to be enobled and given a role in the administration ?

this
is
fucking
nuts


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 11, 2017)




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## bromley (Jun 11, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> There's no polish flags on it so it's either old or they're just not trying hard enough to offend everyone .
> 
> Here we have the poles lumped in with the Palestinians
> 
> ...


Is that an upside down Polish flag, is so, WTF? If not what flag is it?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 11, 2017)

bromley said:


> Is that an upside down Polish flag, is so, WTF? If not what flag is it?


Flag of Monaco?

Despicable Catholic Grimaldi bastards.


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## Cid (Jun 11, 2017)

bromley said:


> Is that an upside down Polish flag, is so, WTF? If not what flag is it?



Indonesia. But probably upside down.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 11, 2017)

Sorry, I really am pretty ignorant about this stuff. Just to be clear, for marching season, they build these big bonfires and place the flags of places and people they don't like on them to be burned?

And DUP types all join in with this stuff enthusiastically, and will be doing so in just a few weeks' time with the whole of the UK media present to witness it?


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## bromley (Jun 11, 2017)

Why is there a hatred of either?! I can't see a Vatican City flag!


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## Ax^ (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Sorry, I really am pretty ignorant about this stuff. Just to be clear, for marching season, they build these big bonfires and place the flags of places and people they don't like on them to be burned?
> 
> And DUP types all join in with this stuff enthusiastically, and will be doing so in just a few weeks' time with the whole of the UK media present to witness it?



Yup


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## Cid (Jun 11, 2017)

bromley said:


> Why is there a hatred of either?! I can't see a Vatican City flag!



Poland pretty much universally Catholic, significant number of Poles in NI. I assume.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 11, 2017)

Ax^ said:


> Yup


Jolly good. Sorry I know this hateful shit is fucking horrible if you're on the receiving end of it, but the prospect of Tory squirming does make me inwardly smile.

Hopefully the DUP will also come to regret having this wider focus placed on them.


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## marty21 (Jun 11, 2017)

Trying to get my head around the EVEL legislation passed by the Tories to stop a SNP/Labour coalition in 2015. So the DUP can't vote on English laws ,nor can Scottish and Welsh Tories or the SNP , PC , Scottish and Welsh Lib dem and Labour.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 11, 2017)

Ireland’s prime minister warns Theresa May over deal with DUP


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## Superdupastupor (Jun 11, 2017)

bromley said:


> Why is there a hatred of either?! I can't see a Vatican City flag!



No just threats either, Polish families fire bombed out of their homes in loyalist areas.


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Sorry, I really am pretty ignorant about this stuff. Just to be clear, for marching season, they build these big bonfires and place the flags of places and people they don't like on them to be burned?
> 
> And DUP types all join in with this stuff enthusiastically, and will be doing so in just a few weeks' time with the whole of the UK media present to witness it?


It is a very sad reflection that few in England have any idea of Loyalism in the six counties and the bigotry, racism, hatred of the Irish and Irish language, Catholics, Muslims(religion of the Devil - no less) & have no idea why those bonfires are lit on the eve of the 12th. Many Eastern europeans have been burnt out of their homes in East & North Belfast. The hatred is not reserved for only the above, they also are currently going through an internal feud resulting in the killings of two of "their own" .


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 11, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> It is a very sad reflection that few in England have any idea of Loyalism in the six counties and the bigotry, racism, hatred of the Irish and Irish language, Catholics, Muslims(religion of the Devil - no less) & have no idea why those bonfires are lit on the eve of the 12th. Many Eastern europeans have been burnt out of their homes in East & North Belfast. The hatred is not reserved for only the above, they also are currently going through an internal feud resulting in the killings of two of "their own" .


Sorry, I'm not proud of my ignorance here, but I didn't even know about the bonfires on the eve of the 12th let alone what they were about. You're right though that more people should know. More people are about to...


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## eoin_k (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Sorry, I really am pretty ignorant about this stuff. Just to be clear, for marching season, they build these big bonfires and place the flags of places and people they don't like on them to be burned?
> 
> And DUP types all join in with this stuff enthusiastically, and will be doing so in just a few weeks' time with the whole of the UK media present to witness it?



This makes them seem no worse than Lewis Bonfire Societies. Ian Paisley, the party's founder, played a major role in stoking up sectarian tension before 'the troubles' started. Taking a mob into the Catholic ghetto to rip down tricolours from the nationalist party's offices and similar theatrics. Throughout the conflict the party maintained and ambiguous relationship to loyalist paramilitaries, who began the cycle of violence: sometimes maintaining a plausibly deniable distance while getting very cosy with them when it suited both their purposes. The sectarian pageantry has some claims to date back to the late 18th century, but has been reinvented periodically since the late 19th century - when the protestant ascendancy began to play 'the orange card'* in response to the threat of home rule.

* Randolph Churchill - This is far from uncharted territory for the Conservative and Unionist Party


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 11, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> This makes them seem no worse than Lewis Bonfire Societies. Ian Paisley, the party's founder, played a major role in stoking up sectarian tension before 'the troubles' started. Taking a mob into the Catholic ghetto to rip down tricolours from the nationalist parties offices and similar theatrics. Throughout the conflict the party maintained and ambiguous relationship to loyalist paramilitaries, who began the cycle of violence: sometimes maintaining a plausibly deniable distance while getting very cosy with them when it suited both their purposes. The sectarian pageantry has some claims to date back to the late 18th century, but has been reinvented periodically since the late 19th century - when the protestant ascendancy began to play 'the orange card'* in response to the threat of home rule.
> 
> * Randolph Churchill - This is far from uncharted territory for the Conservative and Unionist Party


Yes, I didn't intend to make light of it.


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## eoin_k (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes, I didn't intend to make light of it.



Not suggesting that you were, just trying to emphasise that the performative aspects of it need to be read in the wider context. Like a KKK cross burning means so much more when you are aware of the history of lynchings and the ongoing power relations between black and white in America.


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## Sue (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Sorry, I really am pretty ignorant about this stuff. Just to be clear, for marching season, they build these big bonfires and place the flags of places and people they don't like on them to be burned?
> 
> And DUP types all join in with this stuff enthusiastically, and will be doing so in just a few weeks' time with the whole of the UK media present to witness it?


Pretty much.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 11, 2017)

ermm.... is this bollocks? I thought the DUP were more soft brexit. 

The DUP could insist on Nigel Farage having a role in Brexit negotiations


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

marty21 said:


> Trying to get my head around the EVEL legislation passed by the Tories to stop a SNP/Labour coalition in 2015. So the DUP can't vote on English laws ,nor can Scottish and Welsh Tories or the SNP , PC , Scottish and Welsh Lib dem and Labour.


Shit, did they actually legislate?  I thought it had just been agreed on as convention.


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## maomao (Jun 11, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> ermm.... is this bollocks? I thought the DUP were more soft brexit.
> 
> The DUP could insist on Nigel Farage having a role in Brexit negotiations



They may well be but they've been prebought by Aaron Banks who is probably pissing himself laughing right now.


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> ermm.... is this bollocks? I thought the DUP were more soft brexit.
> 
> The DUP could insist on Nigel Farage having a role in Brexit negotiations


I think it depends what topic you're talking about.  From what I've been able to make out they seem to be after a special DUP pick'n'mix Brexit.


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 11, 2017)

Listening to mayhems speech right now , its crazy she is so in denial , hunt and gove ffs , again she is throwing everything away again


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 11, 2017)

maomao said:


> They may well be but they've been prebought by Aaron Banks who is probably pissing himself laughing right now.



The impression I'm getting is that the DUP are pretty flexible where large amounts of cash are concerned (while remaining resolutely opposed to science and civilised behaviour)


----------



## marty21 (Jun 11, 2017)

Corax said:


> Shit, did they actually legislate?  I thought it had just been agreed on as convention.


English votes for English laws: House of Commons bill procedure

There probably is some wriggle room and I'm sure the Tories will be desperate to find some atm.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 11, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> Listening to mayhems speech right now , its crazy she is so in denial , hunt and gove ffs , again she is throwing everything away again


Scorched Earth policy


----------



## Spandex (Jun 11, 2017)

marty21 said:


> Trying to get my head around the EVEL legislation passed by the Tories to stop a SNP/Labour coalition in 2015. So the DUP can't vote on English laws ,nor can Scottish and Welsh Tories or the SNP , PC , Scottish and Welsh Lib dem and Labour.


Sorry to rain on your parade, but looking at the numbers, EVEL will work out just how the Tories wanted it to 

For legislation only affecting England and Wales, excluding Scots and NI MPs, the numbers are:

Con - 304
Lab - 255
LD - 8
Plaid - 4
Green - 1

So the tories would have a majority of 36

For legislation only affecting England, excluding Welsh MPs too, the numbers are:

Con - 296
Lab - 227
LD - 8
Green - 1

So the Tories would have a majority of 60.

Fuck the Tories. Although, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of fucking themselves at the moment


----------



## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Sorry, I really am pretty ignorant about this stuff. Just to be clear, for marching season, they build these big bonfires and place the flags of places and people they don't like on them to be burned?
> 
> And DUP types all join in with this stuff enthusiastically, and will be doing so in just a few weeks' time with the whole of the UK media present to witness it?



It's already been on the media too but no notice whatsoever has been taken . Cultural expression . 



In the interview he refers to nationalists doing the same in August with the union jack ..internment anniversary . There are to the best of my knowledge 2 such affairs, one in west Belfast and one in Derry that are very much ad hoc things organised solely by kids in 2 very disadvantaged areas . Pretty much everyone from shinners to " dissident " has asked these kids to stop doing it and tried to provide alternatives . On the unionist side these things are lit by the thousand  . Some of them are even taxpayer funded . them being " culture " and all .

That is the " Good Friday Agreement " in action . Sectarianism is thoroughly institutionalised and aforded respectability . This is supposed to happen . It's not an aberration . Thanks Blair, thanks Hillary .


----------



## Casually Red (Jun 11, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> This makes them seem no worse than Lewis Bonfire Societies. Ian Paisley, the party's founder, played a major role in stoking up sectarian tension before 'the troubles' started. Taking a mob into the Catholic ghetto to rip down tricolours from the nationalist party's offices and similar theatrics. Throughout the conflict the party maintained and ambiguous relationship to loyalist paramilitaries, who began the cycle of violence: sometimes maintaining a plausibly deniable distance while getting very cosy with them when it suited both their purposes. The sectarian pageantry has some claims to date back to the late 18th century, but has been reinvented periodically since the late 19th century - when the protestant ascendancy began to play 'the orange card'* in response to the threat of home rule.
> 
> * Randolph Churchill - This is far from uncharted territory for the Conservative and Unionist Party



The good Friday agreement designates this stuff as culture . The situation has gotten so bad that today if you dare object to it you are attacking " Protestant culture " . It's you that's the intolerant bigot, not them . It's you infringing upon their human rights and displaying your bigotry and intolerance if you object to any of this . If you even remotely doubt this just go to YouTube and type in " orange human rights " . 

And the way this rotten game works is that whenever a unionist politician attends one of these things the shinners make a noise about it . Call it disgraceful . Which gives them a handy distraction while implementing cuts and austerity...in cahoots with the very same bigots they've been complaining about . Pretending they oppose them and pointing to their excesses while at the same time doing business as usual with them and actively covering up their corruption on a number of occasions to keep the whole shit show afloat . While the DUP get to tell their guys their " Protestant culture " is under attack, the union undermined and everyone has to vote for them.

And now between the fucking 2 of them they've won every last parliamentary seat...apart from that one on millionaires row in Strangford . Were the rich tend to frown on all this stuff . 

The British government designed it this way . This is supposed to happen . This is normality .


----------



## marty21 (Jun 11, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Sorry to rain on your parade, but looking at the numbers, EVEL will work out just how the Tories wanted it to
> 
> For legislation only affecting England and Wales, excluding Scots and NI MPs, the numbers are:
> 
> ...


I had a feeling that might be the case but I have a feeling that law will get amended .


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2017)

a senseless waste of good pallets, every year. The hidden atrocity.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 12, 2017)

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pallets usually still the actual property of the company that made them? (I guess kind of like the glass bottles you get when you have milk delivered) I find it hard to believe that they're all legitimately acquired.


----------



## The Boy (Jun 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> a senseless waste of good pallets, every year. The hidden atrocity.



They could turn them into coffee tables for metropolitan types and build an entire manufacturing sector out of those...


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jun 12, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pallets usually still the actual property of the company that made them? (I guess kind of like the glass bottles you get when you have milk delivered) I find it hard to believe that they're all legitimately acquired.


I was on a union steward training course once and the guy from the Belfast branch (who was a well built Prod himself) said the lads come and get the pallets and there's nothing him or the management or the other workers could do about it.


----------



## binka (Jun 12, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pallets usually still the actual property of the company that made them? (I guess kind of like the glass bottles you get when you have milk delivered) I find it hard to believe that they're all legitimately acquired.


Not really. You do get some like that (chep pallets) but about 99% of the ones that come through our warehouse at work don't involve any 3rd party ownership


----------



## LiamO (Jun 12, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pallets usually still the actual property of the company that made them? (I guess kind of like the glass bottles you get when you have milk delivered) I find it hard to believe that they're all legitimately acquired.



Bet you find the fact that many of the Loyalist bonfirees are state/council funded/sponsored equally hard to get your head around. But they are.

They are just misunderstood. It's all a Taigy conspiracy y'see. They deliberately build houses close to bonfires just to give bad press.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 12, 2017)

LiamO said:


> Bet you find the fact that many of the Loyalist bonfirees are state/council funded/sponsored equally hard to get your head around. But they are.


 You mean I'm paying for this shit?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Jun 12, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pallets usually still the actual property of the company that made them? (I guess kind of like the glass bottles you get when you have milk delivered) I find it hard to believe that they're all legitimately acquired.


Are you for real? Have you seen what happens to anyone who questions one of their 12th bonfires?


----------



## LiamO (Jun 12, 2017)

NoXion said:


> You mean I'm paying for this shit?



Yes. And you should consider it a privilege. They are steadfastly keeping 'Britishness' alive whilst you softy 'mainlanders' allow it to wither on the vine.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> Are you for real? Have you seen what happens to anyone who questions one of their 12th bonfires?


they dress you as the pope and stick you on top?


----------



## ska invita (Jun 12, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Sorry to rain on your parade, but looking at the numbers, EVEL will work out just how the Tories wanted it to
> 
> For legislation only affecting England and Wales, excluding Scots and NI MPs, the numbers are:
> 
> ...


I'm starting to think the tories might last a full term....it will be a slow motion car crash, and they'll be busted at the end, but if they act disciplined they could make it over the line....


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2017)

ska invita said:


> I'm starting to think the tories might last a full term....it will be a slow motion car crash, and they'll be busted at the end, but if they act disciplined they could make it over the line....


the tories I'd agree, but May I am not so sure


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2017)

interesting documentary about Theresa's new friends


----------



## bromley (Jun 12, 2017)

Cid said:


> Poland pretty much universally Catholic, significant number of Poles in NI. I assume.


Yeah there is a large Polish community, I remember it causing a lot of friction.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 12, 2017)

Now Margaret Attwood has joined the fray:


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 12, 2017)

Wee vox-pop from work today. People knew who the DUP were but didn't know they were such a bunch of loonspuds. I would guess a fair few million like that in Britain today.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 12, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Wee vox-pop from work today. People knew who the DUP were but didn't know they were such a bunch of loonspuds. I would guess a fair few million like that in Britain today.



I knew they were fundmentalist bigots, it's the corruption on top I didn't know about. Don't think I'm alone.


----------



## nuffsaid (Jun 12, 2017)

There's far too much scientific fact around these days, what's wrong with a bit of Creationism, if only for the sake of balance.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 12, 2017)

They light the bonfires because apparently when King William of Orange landed in Ireland back in the day beacons were lit along Belfast Lough to help navigate the ships. Fast forward 300 years and they're used to display hatred and bigotry to anyone they don't like. There also seems to be competition between estates to see who can build the highest.

Last year someone's house went on fire because embers fell onto their roof and gutted the house. People living close to them have to board their windows up to stop them from breaking and just last month a 9 year old nearly died because someone left industrial waste at a site. They start building these things in like February and they are a blight to their communities and no one seems to give a fuck.


----------



## Mordi (Jun 13, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> I was on a union steward training course once and the guy from the Belfast branch (who was a well built Prod himself) said the lads come and get the pallets and there's nothing him or the management or the other workers could do about it.


 
Also anecdotal but my brother-in-law told me that when they do sites in Belfast there's a certain amount put aside for when the local pillars of community come calling. There's always been local graft (my uncle grew up in a house held together with Harland and Wolff rivets) as there is anywhere, but them driving in trucks of pallets for a site that has no need for them is both hilarious and depressing.


----------



## bromley (Jun 13, 2017)

In a German paper.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 14, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Sorry to rain on your parade, but looking at the numbers, EVEL will work out just how the Tories wanted it to
> 
> For legislation only affecting England and Wales, excluding Scots and NI MPs, the numbers are:
> 
> ...


Call me naive but why are the tories concerned about a loss of majority then? Other than perhaps their incredulity at the idea people might not vote for them as much as they should.


----------



## moochedit (Jun 14, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Call me naive but why are the tories concerned about a loss of majority then? Other than perhaps their incredulity at the idea people might not vote for them as much as they should.



They need an all uk majority to win a vote of confidence. Even after fixed term act that can still trigger an election (although it a little more complicated than before that act)


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 14, 2017)

moochedit said:


> They need an all uk majority to win a vote of confidence. Even after fixed term act that can still trigger an election (although it a little more complicated than before that act)


what happens if she wins that; business as usual?


----------



## bimble (Jun 14, 2017)

fucks sake. | BPAS
(court just ruled that women from NI can't access free NHS abortions in UK , their decision based on 'respect' for the views of the NI assembly.)


----------



## flypanam (Jun 14, 2017)

bimble said:


> fucks sake. | BPAS
> (court just ruled that women from NI can't access free NHS abortions in UK , their decision based on 'respect' for the views of the NI assembly.)


To be expected, unfortunately. The DUP hold the all the aces.


----------



## moochedit (Jun 14, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> what happens if she wins that; business as usual?



Yep fraid so 

Although it wouldn't take many by elections to change that as they are very tight even with the dup. (Fingers crossed)


----------



## Wilf (Jun 14, 2017)

bimble said:


> fucks sake. | BPAS
> (court just ruled that women from NI can't access free NHS abortions in UK , their decision based on 'respect' for the views of the NI assembly.)


This is the first awkward practical question for may following the agreement/near agreement with the dup.  The issue doesn't arise directly from the tory-dup thing, but she's not going to put it at risk by allowing NI women to travel for abortions.


----------



## Cid (Jun 14, 2017)

bimble said:


> fucks sake. | BPAS
> (court just ruled that women from NI can't access free NHS abortions in UK , their decision based on 'respect' for the views of the NI assembly.)



No, their decision was "restrained by the decision of the Secretary of State for Health, Jeremy Hunt, who argued the ban was out of “respect” for the democratic process in Northern Ireland".


----------



## Mordi (Jun 14, 2017)

Cid said:


> No, their decision "restrained by the decision of the Secretary of State for Health, Jeremy Hunt, who argued the ban was out of “respect” for the democratic process in Northern Ireland".



This is absolutely disgusting. Normally I can step back from stuff (partly because politics in the 6C is usually deeply silly) but this totally infuriates me.

I'd write to my MP but...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 14, 2017)




----------



## Cid (Jun 15, 2017)

Shinners are accusing TM of breach of the good friday agreement.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 15, 2017)

She's going to have to resign. None of them are fit for public office.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 15, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> None of them are fit for public office



sadly that doesn't usually stop the buggers being there


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 16, 2017)

The bright side: the more May has to concede to that bunch of rancid bigots, the more it may well come to hurt her elsewhere.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 16, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> The bright side: the more May has to concede to that bunch of rancid bigots, the more it may well come to hurt her elsewhere.



I'm still not convinced she is going to be able bring them on board.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 16, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I'm still not convinced she is going to be able bring them on board.


It's the marches, got to be. She's saying fuck no and they aren't budging

#crystalball


----------



## Supine (Jun 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> It's the marches, got to be. She's saying fuck no and they aren't budging
> 
> #crystalball



The marches, or getting Farage involved in Brexit. There are no good reasons for a holdup.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 16, 2017)

Supine said:


> The marches, or getting Farage involved in Brexit. There are no good reasons for a holdup.



Unless the DUP don't really want to prop up what is going to be a hated and short lived government. The DUP might be worried that the Tories will toxify their brand....


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 16, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Unless the DUP don't really want to prop up what is going to be a hated and short lived government. The DUP might be worried that the Tories will toxify their brand....



This could well be the case  so the DUP think they may as well ask for the kitchen sink et al


----------



## Rosemary Jest (Jun 16, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> This could well be the case  so the DUP think they may as well ask for the kitchen sink et al



Seems plausible and who can blame them? 

Still, seeing how long it took May to even begin to think about starting Brexit talks, taking 2 weeks to arrange something with the duppers seems small fry. She's not the best at planning or decision making, is she?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in these talks, though I suspect it would be one long head in hands moment.


----------



## Supine (Jun 16, 2017)

"Theresa, if you'd just stop crying for a minute we can make some progress"


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jun 16, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Unless the DUP don't really want to prop up what is going to be a hated and short lived government. The DUP might be worried that the Tories will toxify their brand....



Imagine being so evil you could toxify the DUP brand.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 16, 2017)

flypanam said:


> To be expected, unfortunately. The DUP hold the all the aces.


What, all five of them?


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 16, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> Imagine being so evil you could toxify the DUP brand.


This seem more credible than them trying to wring concessions out of the Tories at the moment, although it goes both ways. The Tories have already pushed their social liberal/economic liberal constituency to the limits and can't afford to alienate them entirely by getting into bed with the DUP,. The DUP need to play the socially conservative, clientist, Keynesians to their base in 'Norn Iron'.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (Jun 17, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> What, all five of them?



Plus a couple of jokers too.


----------



## 8115 (Jun 19, 2017)

I appreciate that some other things have been taking up a lot of space on the news recently and today but am I the only one to find the continuing silence about the Tory/ DUP deal strange and if I'm honest, more than a little heartening. The queen's speech is due on Wednesday.


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

Little Pengelly is a DUP MP & barrister. If you drive through west Belfast right now you'll see UVF & UDA flags hanging side by side with union jacks. They even have bunting.

It's the day after May says we must fight all kinds of extremism. Imagine if this was a Muslim MP and they were ISIS flags flying in Bradford.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 20, 2017)

8115 said:


> I appreciate that some other things have been taking up a lot of space on the news recently and today but am I the only one to find the continuing silence about the Tory/ DUP deal strange and if I'm honest, more than a little heartening. The queen's speech is due on Wednesday.


Grayling today saying that the talks are going well. Ten days in... 

Also hinting strongly that there will be no agreement pre-Queen's speech



> We have got some days until we have a vote on the Queen's Speech. It is not on Queen's Speech day. The vote happens many days later as we have an extended debate first and I am sure we will have a sensible arrangement between the parties when that time comes.



Talks are going so well that they'd like to keep them going for as long as possible.


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Grayling today saying that the talks are going well. Ten days in...
> 
> Also hinting strongly that there will be no agreement pre-Queen's speech
> 
> ...




I'd get comfortable, there's nothing the DUP like more* than a nice long protracted  negotiation 




* except marching, Lambeg drums, hating taigs, building dangerously tall bonfires, marching, bunting, marching, the Queen, arguing against evolution, marching, flegs!, hating the gays, marching & of course marching.


----------



## Florkleshnort (Jun 20, 2017)

8115 said:


> I appreciate that some other things have been taking up a lot of space on the news recently and today but am I the only one to find the continuing silence about the Tory/ DUP deal strange and if I'm honest, more than a little heartening. The queen's speech is due on Wednesday.


So it's not just me then. I've been looking through the news thinking I must have missed the announcement...


----------



## moochedit (Jun 20, 2017)

8115 said:


> I appreciate that some other things have been taking up a lot of space on the news recently and today but am I the only one to find the continuing silence about the Tory/ DUP deal strange and if I'm honest, more than a little heartening. The queen's speech is due on Wednesday.



I can't remember now exactly how long the tory and lib dem deal took in 2015 or how much information we got about it while it was going on but surely it was quicker than this?


----------



## Cid (Jun 20, 2017)

In the greater scheme of hung parliaments this is still early days. 5 days for the condems though apparently.


----------



## Cid (Jun 20, 2017)

They've been sort of mumbling that everything's fine, honest, on and off since the election haven't they?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 20, 2017)

moochedit said:


> I can't remember now exactly how long the tory and lib dem deal took in 2015 or how much information we got about it while it was going on but surely it was quicker than this?


Five days from the election to the publication of the full agreement. So this is already a week longer.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 20, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Five days from the election to the publication of the full agreement. So this is already a week longer.



Also I don't think Cameron went off to see the queen before he knew he could form a government.  May ran off to see queeny before the dust had even startled to settle and on the of a two minute chat by the sounds of it.  Thoroughly in keeping with everything else she has done, a terrible decision driven by hubris and extreme arrogance.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Also I don't think Cameron went off to see the queen before he knew he could form a government.  May ran off to see queeny before the dust had even startled to settle and on the of a two minute chat by the sounds of it.  Thoroughly in keeping with everything else she has done, a terrible decision driven by hubris and extreme arrogance.



has corbs seen her yet? I guess it would be too premature


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2017)

queens speech first, then el corbz gets his go if its voted down. We don't even know if the tory/dup satanic pact is completed yet do we, let alone how many child sacrifices have been demanded


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 20, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Also I don't think Cameron went off to see the queen before he knew he could form a government.  May ran off to see queeny before the dust had even startled to settle and on the of a two minute chat by the sounds of it.  Thoroughly in keeping with everything else she has done, a terrible decision driven by hubris and extreme arrogance.


No, he didn't. Slightly different situation in that Cameron wasn't the sitting PM, but yes, that was a poor decision by May, taken, I would guess, in a panicked response to a situation that they had not prepared for.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 20, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No, he didn't. Slightly different situation in that Cameron wasn't the sitting PM, but yes, that was a poor decision by May, taken, I would guess, in a panicked response to a situation that they had not prepared for.



Think she wanted to make a DUP deal a fait accompli. A lot of Tories think it's a bad idea, but she headed them off at the pass.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 20, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Think she wanted to make a DUP deal a fait accompli. A lot of Tories think it's a bad idea, but she headed them off at the pass.


I think she'd been up all night, had not anticipated not winning outright, and made the decision there and then with rather little thought of any kind. Her initial speech, which was basically the thing she'd prepared for if she had won outright with barely a tweak, strongly suggests that she was not thinking straight at the time.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 20, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think she'd been up all night, had not anticipated not winning outright, and made the decision there and then with rather little thought of any kind. Her initial speech, which was basically the thing she'd prepared for if she had won outright with barely a tweak, strongly suggests that she was not thinking straight at the time.



Yes that seems like a fair assessment.  She was on autopilot and the speech was a dead giveaway, she had shut down into total denial.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 20, 2017)

Not sure May was well briefed about dealing with the DUP...


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 20, 2017)

Will the Queen make it to Ascot in time for the first race tomorrow? That's the important question. Speculation she might use a helicopter.


----------



## Santino (Jun 20, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Will the Queen make it to Ascot in time for the first race tomorrow? That's the important question. Speculation she might use a helicopter.


Really ought to use a horse like all the other competitors.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 20, 2017)

Obviously playing hardball for leverage, but this is all funny as...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 20, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Obviously playing hardball for leverage, but this is all funny as...
> 
> View attachment 109768



I did say before that it wasn't necessarily a done deal!


----------



## likesfish (Jun 20, 2017)

8den said:


> I'd get comfortable, there's nothing the DUP like more* than a nice long protracted  negotiation
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You forget chucking rocks and petrol bombs  fair enough from the republican side.
  But why the fuck were the so called loyalists trying to kill us?
	 Did phone the irish army  once about handing the 6 counties over.
   Their response was get to fuck its your problem


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 20, 2017)

> "The DUP is urging the government to give “greater focus” to the negotiations. And in Belfast, other DUP sources said “backbiting from Tory backbenchers” had stiffened their resolve to “dig in”"



DUP says it 'can't be taken for granted', putting Tory deal in doubt

lol - "digging in" is very much the DUP's comfort zone isn't it?


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Obviously playing hardball for leverage, but this is all funny as...
> 
> View attachment 109768




A negotiating strategy that compromised of just Boris Johnson singing "Come on Arlene" apparently didn't go well.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 20, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Also I don't think Cameron went off to see the queen before he knew he could form a government.  May ran off to see queeny before the dust had even startled to settle and on the of a two minute chat by the sounds of it.  Thoroughly in keeping with everything else she has done, a terrible decision driven by hubris and extreme arrogance.


Indeed, as i recall the words "DUP spokesperson suggests talk of deal premature" were scrolling and scrolling along the breaking news bit before during and after her visit to the Queen, giving me false hope of a Corbyn led govt


----------



## likesfish (Jun 20, 2017)

this is quite good


----------



## bimble (Jun 20, 2017)

this is what the word clusterfuck was invented for.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 20, 2017)

May appears to have fucked it all up again.  The tories must be desperate to let her stay on as their leader.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 20, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> queens speech first, then el corbz gets his go if its voted down. We don't even know if the tory/dup satanic pact is completed yet do we, let alone how many child sacrifices have been demanded



First thing labour should do if the queen's speech gets voted down is run on a platform of having a second general election. Then hope to fuck they can get a majority this time round. Can't see any other way round it myself.


----------



## bimble (Jun 20, 2017)

my £10 on JC  is still "pending"


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 20, 2017)

Maybe we need to take these theatrics with a pinch of salt. The DUP get to show that they're flexing their muscles to constituents back in Norn Iron, while the more moderate Tories are reassured that May isn't jumping into bed with some throwbacks from the seventeenth century. While it all highlights how fragile the government will be, it also suits both sides for this arrangement to appear not to go too smoothly.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 20, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> Maybe we need to take these theatrics with a pinch of salt. The DUP get to show that they're flexing their muscles to constituents back in Norn Iron, while the more moderate Tories are reassured that May isn't jumping into bed with some throwbacks from the seventeenth century. While it all highlights how fragile the government will be, it also suits both sides for this arrangement to appear not to go too smoothly.


killjoy


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 20, 2017)

diamarzipan said:


> killjoy



What can I say? I hope you get to rub my nose in it when I'm proved wrong.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 20, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> Maybe we need to take these theatrics with a pinch of salt. The DUP get to show that they're flexing their muscles to constituents back in Norn Iron, while the more moderate Tories are reassured that May isn't jumping into bed with some throwbacks from the seventeenth century. While it all highlights how fragile the government will be, it also suits both sides for this arrangement to appear not to go too smoothly.



One thing we should know by now is that the Tories are not political masterminds capable of such things. I err on the side of utter incompetence.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 20, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> One thing we should know by now is that the Tories are not political masterminds capable of such things. I err on the side of utter incompetence.



I'm not trying to suggest that it's a deliberate ruse to give the rest of us a false impression, more that both sides can strike some poses at the moment, but will then deal with the reality of the situation. The Tory government will be weak, but the DUP will also want to keep Corbyn out of power enough to support them for the Queen's Speeches, budgets, votes of confidence etc.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

lol she's too stupid for that sort of conspiracy theory to work.


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> Maybe we need to take these theatrics with a pinch of salt. The DUP get to show that they're flexing their muscles to constituents back in Norn Iron, while the more moderate Tories are reassured that May isn't jumping into bed with some throwbacks from the seventeenth century. While it all highlights how fragile the government will be, it also suits both sides for this arrangement to appear not to go too smoothly.



That would suggest May & her cabinet are some kind of tactical wizards playing a game of 3D hologram hyper chess & not a bunch of confused idiots who'd lose a game of checkers to a donkey.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 20, 2017)

8den said:


> That would suggest May & her cabinet are some kind of tactical wizards playing a game of 3D hologram hyper chess & not a bunch of confused idiots who'd lose a game of checkers to a donkey.


Or 'Snap!' with the creationists.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 20, 2017)

8den said:


> That would suggest May & her cabinet are some kind of tactical wizards playing a game of 3D hologram hyper chess & not a bunch of confused idiots who'd lose a game of checkers to a donkey.


Its draughts actually


----------



## killer b (Jun 20, 2017)

Have to say, I'm in awe of the trolling skills of these guys.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 20, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> Its draughts actually



Nah, it's not even noughts and crosses.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 20, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> The Tory government will be weak, but the DUP will also want to keep Corbyn out of power enough to support them for the Queen's Speeches, budgets, votes of confidence etc.



It would be astonishing if that were ever in doubt. The point of getting a deal has to be Brexit.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 20, 2017)

there playing russian roulette with an automatic


----------



## Supine (Jun 20, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> Its draughts actually



Snakes and ladders


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 20, 2017)

I think the DUP's game is called "fuck you".


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 20, 2017)

have they got any policies to put in the queen's speech tomorrow?

at the moment i'm thinking it could along the lines of 

"mey government is utterly farked.  mey government will continue to flail round aimlessly.  one is orf to arsecot."


----------



## Cid (Jun 20, 2017)

Potential judicial review on the way too...


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 20, 2017)

The thing about the DUP we forget is that they're basically small time, small town hicks who got lucky.


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Obviously playing hardball for leverage, but this is all funny as...
> 
> View attachment 109768




If a group of creationist climate change deniers are publicly calling out May's government's negotiating acumen, then you are completely fucked when it comes to brexit.


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

After two years of negotiating David Davis announcing the Brexit deal, the divorce bill is £9 trillion, and the UK remains in the EU but now you're all Belgian for some reason.


----------



## killer b (Jun 20, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> The thing about the DUP we forget is that they're basically small time, small town hicks who got lucky.


I don't think any of us are forgetting this at all.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 20, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> The thing about the DUP we forget is that they're basically small time, small town hicks who got lucky.



That's the most anyone ever is.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 20, 2017)

In case The Queen's Speech is even more rot than usual, here's this:


----------



## 8115 (Jun 20, 2017)

Lovely stuff. 

Theresa May under pressure as DUP says: ‘Show some respect’


----------



## Smangus (Jun 20, 2017)

I don't think I've ever enjoyed politics as much as the last 4 weeks and it just keeps getting better and better


----------



## Cid (Jun 20, 2017)

Smangus said:


> I don't think I've ever enjoyed politics as much as the last 4 weeks and it just keeps getting better and better



It can't last, surely but....


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 20, 2017)

on tweeter as tomorrow's daily mirror front page


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

Puddy_Tat said:


> on tweeter as tomorrow's daily mirror front page


----------



## magneze (Jun 20, 2017)

Glorious


----------



## pengaleng (Jun 20, 2017)

jesus, still??

god she looks done in on that front page


----------



## killer b (Jun 20, 2017)

We shouldn't forget that as well as trolling may, the fuckers are also trolling us: come the vote on the queens speech, they'll troop through the government lobby whatever.


----------



## 8den (Jun 20, 2017)

Smangus said:


> I don't think I've ever enjoyed politics as much as the last 4 weeks and it just keeps getting better and better



Is it possible to die of a schadenfreude overdose?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 20, 2017)

killer b said:


> We shouldn't forget that as well as trolling may, the fuckers are also trolling us: come the vote on the queens speech, they'll troop through the government lobby whatever.


Raises an important question about how they will respond, though the QS is not voted on immediately.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 20, 2017)

killer b said:


> We shouldn't forget that as well as trolling may, the fuckers are also trolling us: come the vote on the queens speech, they'll troop through the government lobby whatever.


They will of course. But only after having wounded the govt to an extent that makes the thing they dread, Corbyn in power, way more likely. The DUP are also Fuckwits.


----------



## killer b (Jun 20, 2017)

Speaking of trolling and Corbyn in power, McDonnell apparently came out with this tonight...

John McDonnell: "The Tories need to sort themselves, because when we get into government we will need an effective opposition."


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They will of course. But only after having wounded the govt to an extent that makes the thing they dread, Corbyn in power, way more likely. The DUP are also Fuckwits.


I'd say their decision whether to support or abstain will rest upon the deal being settled; they're obviously hanging out for something(s)...so if May doesn't yield they may just abstain to let her know her weakness.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 21, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> The thing about the DUP we forget is that they're basically small time, small town hicks who got lucky.


This might be the kind of lucky that is not the kind you want for all parties concerned.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> I'd say their decision whether to support or abstain will rest upon the deal being settled; they're obviously hanging out for something(s)...so if May doesn't yield they may just abstain to let her know her weakness.


Only if they're idiots. This is an absurd game of chicken. The DUP in some ways have more to lose than the Tories. The Tories can lick their wounds and come back in the next election. If the DUP let Corbyn in, and are seen to let Corbyn in, they could be finished in a few years' time. 

Right at the beginning of this, I thought the DUP were bound to overplay their hand. And sure enough, that is what they are doing. They are not equals in this negotiation, but are acting as if they were. They're fools.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 21, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> The thing about the DUP we forget is that they're basically small time, small town hicks who got lucky.


We don't forget that, and no-one does, but the whole "getting lucky" is not fun, not good. DUP is quite scary.

My own sneaky thoughts are that the LibDems will walk back in, saying "Oh we are even nicer to the Tories than the DUP, and we have even got as much as twelve M.P.s, which makes us really popular and important."

A bit of fluffy television chat things ... and soon it will be sold to us as "Oh, at least it's not that scary mad DUP in charge now, eh? It's just the Tories and their followers in power. 

And on we go again.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 21, 2017)

diamarzipan said:


> killjoy



"In Killjoy jail, one Monday morning ..."


----------



## Smangus (Jun 21, 2017)

8den said:


> Is it possible to die of a schadenfreude overdose?



Not in my case


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Only if they're idiots. This is an absurd game of chicken. The DUP in some ways have more to lose than the Tories. The Tories can lick their wounds and come back in the next election. If the DUP let Corbyn in, and are seen to let Corbyn in, they could be finished in a few years' time.
> 
> Right at the beginning of this, I thought the DUP were bound to overplay their hand. And sure enough, that is what they are doing. They are not equals in this negotiation, but are acting as if they were. They're fools.


Tricky balance they've got to effect, though...close enough to extract the largesse, but with enough distance not to be contaminated & destroyed like the LDs were.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Tricky balance they've got to effect, though...close enough to extract the largesse, but with enough distance not to be contaminated & destroyed like the LDs were.


There's surely less of a risk of a similar destruction to the Lib Dems - their death was mainly a result of half their voters being well to the left of the party and fucking off once it became clear what they were doing: I don't think there's a similar issue with the DUP.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

killer b said:


> There's surely less of a risk of a similar destruction to the Lib Dems - their death was mainly a result of half their voters being well to the left of the party and fucking off once it became clear what they were doing: I don't think there's a similar issue with the DUP.


True, but I suppose i was thinking about the potential (economic) clusterfuck of Brexit.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

Looks like there isn't going to be a deal anyway tbh. Damien Green saying this morning that a deal 'is still possible' sounds like expectation management to me.


----------



## bimble (Jun 21, 2017)

Minimal pomp for todays' show, which is interesting. First time since 1974 that she's done this in a hat apparently, and there'll be no garters. 
"The Queen will not wear her Imperial State Crown or robes for this year’s State Opening, with the annual service of the Order of the Garter also cancelled for the first time since 1984."


----------



## teqniq (Jun 21, 2017)

What's it going to be, the queen's non-speech then?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 21, 2017)

bimble said:


> Minimal pomp for todays' show, which is interesting. First time since 1974 that she's done this in a hat apparently, and there'll be no garters.
> "The Queen will not wear her Imperial State Crown or robes for this year’s State Opening, with the annual service of the Order of the Garter also cancelled for the first time since 1984."


Oh, ffs! I don't want another argument about people going out in their pyjamas.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 21, 2017)

from what I've heard this isn't clever positioning but genuine breakdown in negotiations, and that they already broke down by the weekend. They are an arrogant bunch the Tories and they expect their own way.

as said the question really is how do the dup vote anyway, and does it make a difference


----------



## teqniq (Jun 21, 2017)

a plague on all their houses anyway.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

ska invita said:


> from what I've heard this isn't clever positioning but genuine breakdown in negotiations, and that they already broke down by the weekend. They are an arrogant bunch the Tories and they expect their own way.
> 
> as said the question really is how do the dup vote anyway, and does it make a difference


The arithmetic is such that a dup abstention will do the Tories. Sinn Fein's absence ensures that. They'd have to vote against to be trouble, and they were probably never going to do that anyway. Don't know their history on QS votes for Tory govts, but I'd be surprised if they had a history of opposing.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

I'm failing to see how, in the absence of any agreement, the DUP could do anything other than abstain...otherwise...what's the point; the vermin would know that they could rely on them anyway. I'd imagine that the creationists would like to give May a bit of a fright...a taste of what would be unless she agrees to start shovelling the £bns across the Celtic Sea.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 21, 2017)

That would make 317 tories against 314 others with Sinn Fein and all unionists abstaining.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> That would make 317 tories against 314 others with Sinn Fein and all unionists abstaining.


Remember Speaker + 3 deps don't vote.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 21, 2017)

Hoping her madge has walk in music like in darts and snooker.

Ride of the Valkyries would be an obvious choice.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 21, 2017)

Hm, bit of horn tooting, but a missed opportunity


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Remember Speaker + 3 deps don't vote.


That already included the speaker, but Labour has two deputies as against one tory as far as I can see, so that leaves 316:312.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

The deputy speakers don't vote normally, but they don't get an uncontested election like the speaker does, so they're still political. Push comes to shove, I'd be getting my deputies in the lobby for me.

Either way, the tories don't need the DUP to do anything other than abstain, numbers-wise. Politically, having already announced their supply and confidence agreement, it would be very damaging. It could bring down May, if not the whole govt.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> That already included the speaker, but Labour has two deputies as against one tory as far as I can see, so that leaves 316:312.


That's my calculation based upon a complete DUP abstention and assuming no pairings etc.
Vote to take place next week.


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## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The deputy speakers don't vote normally, but they don't get an uncontested election like the speaker does, so they're still political. Push comes to shove, I'd be getting my deputies in the lobby for me.


Not sure of 'rules'/convention here. Worth looking up.


----------



## 8den (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Only if they're idiots. This is an absurd game of chicken. The DUP in some ways have more to lose than the Tories. The Tories can lick their wounds and come back in the next election. If the DUP let Corbyn in, and are seen to let Corbyn in, they could be finished in a few years' time.
> 
> Right at the beginning of this, I thought the DUP were bound to overplay their hand. And sure enough, that is what they are doing. They are not equals in this negotiation, but are acting as if they were. They're fools.



Mostly agree with this. Last time the Unionists were in power in Westminster, it was the early 90s, the likelihood of the DUP playing such a key role on the world stage again is remote.

The Tories over played their hand they assumed the DUP would join in because of arrogance or blind panic. Now the DUP is over playing their hand, but at the same time they have the Tories over a barrel and maybe just don't give a fuck. 





Celyn said:


> We don't forget that, and no-one does, but the whole "getting lucky" is not fun, not good. DUP is quite scary.
> 
> My own sneaky thoughts are that the LibDems will walk back in, saying "Oh we are even nicer to the Tories than the DUP, and we have even got as much as twelve M.P.s, which makes us really popular and important."
> 
> ...



Can't see it particularly if Vince Cable gets elected leader. To commit political suicide once in your career...but twice?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Not sure of 'rules'/convention here. Worth looking up.


Convention is that they don't vote. But they are properly elected, unlike the speaker, against whom the main parties do not field candidates.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> I'm failing to see how, in the absence of any agreement, the DUP could do anything other than abstain...otherwise...what's the point; the vermin would know that they could rely on them anyway. I'd imagine that the creationists would like to give May a bit of a fright...a taste of what would be unless she agrees to start shovelling the £bns across the Celtic Sea.



I appreciate this has probably been said already but there is always the possibility that senior Tories are pressing the DUP not to agree a deal; the inevitable reaction of the Crown would be to look to the next most likely person to form a Government - which would of course be a senior Tory, backed by the DUP.  The Tories can then defenestrate May without the unpleasantness of a leadership election.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 21, 2017)

Anyone know of precedent for someone other than a party leader being invited to form a government.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Convention is that they don't vote. But they are properly elected, unlike the speaker, against whom the main parties do not field candidates.


Vermin would be foolish to try testing such convention...however close they felt the vote, if there's 2 LP deps to their 1.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Vermin would be foolish to try testing such convention...however close they felt the vote, if there's 2 LP deps to their 1.


Weirdly, in the House of Lords, the deputies can and do vote. It's a stupid system we have.  They would have a mandate to vote, though, which would be the argument.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

agricola said:


> I appreciate this has probably been said already but there is always the possibility that senior Tories are pressing the DUP not to agree a deal; the inevitable reaction of the Crown would be to look to the next most likely person to form a Government - which would of course be a senior Tory, backed by the DUP.  The Tories can then defenestrate May without the unpleasantness of a leadership election.


Doesn't (that word again) convention say that the incumbent having been given the opportunity to form an administration, and failed, the Monarch would then invite the leader of HMLO to have a punt?


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> Anyone know of precedent for someone other than a party leader being invited to form a government.



Lots of them - Gladstone in 1880, the Duke of Wellington in 1828, MacDonald in 1931, Churchill in 1940.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Doesn't (that word again) convention say that the incumbent having been given the opportunity to form an administration, and failed, the Monarch would then invite the leader of HMLO to have a punt?


yes. anything else is fantasy.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Doesn't (that word again) convention say that the incumbent having been given the opportunity to form an administration, and failed, the Monarch would then invite the leader of HMLO to have a punt?


I think that's correct. However, I really don't see how Labour can get past the first hurdle. Corbyn's trolling a bit I think on this. I don't see how the numbers can ever give him more than the 318 tories and the 10 DUPers who would definitely not abstain in this event.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think that's correct. However, I really don't see how Labour can get past the first hurdle. Corbyn's trolling a bit I think on this. I don't see how the numbers can ever give him more than the 318 tories and the 10 DUPers who would definitely not abstain in this event.


Yep; #GE2017 2.0


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Yep; #GE2017 2.0


Which, tbh, would surely be a far better option for Labour than a precarious minority govt.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Doesn't (that word again) convention say that the incumbent having been given the opportunity to form an administration, and failed, the Monarch would then invite the leader of HMLO to have a punt?



The problem there is that they could do that, but HMLO couldn't form a government and would not be able to pass a Queen's Speech.  The most likely alternative Government really is one comprised of the Tories, backed by the DUP.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

Obviously, the most likely outcome is that the creationists will fall into line by next week's QS vote...once they've extracted a few more motorways/airports or whatever it is they're after.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think that's correct. However, I really don't see how Labour can get past the first hurdle. Corbyn's trolling a bit I think on this. I don't see how the numbers can ever give him more than the 318 tories and the 10 DUPers who would definitely not abstain in this event.


He doesn't necessarily need the numbers though: Labour's challenge to the tories (in the still unlikely event of them forming a minority government) is - support or abstain, or give us another election. Right now, I can't see them going for the election, so it'll be abstention.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Obviously, the most likely outcome is that the creationists will fall into line by next week's QS vote...once they've extracted a few more motorways/airports or whatever it is they're after.



The BBC (admittedly it was Laura Kuenssberg) claim their demand is a billion pound for the NHS in NI, a billion for "infrastructure etc", and increased defence spending.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Obviously, the most likely outcome is that the creationists will fall into line by next week's QS vote...once they've extracted a few more motorways/airports or whatever it is they're after.


Or... they will continue overplaying their hand, will abstain due to lack of an agreement, the tories pass the thing anyway, and we limp on for another month or two, probably with a new prime minister.


----------



## Ptolemy (Jun 21, 2017)

I wondered if some of the Tories would think further ahead and consider a "nuclear option" - whereby a swathe of Tories would conspire to vote against May, bring down the Government and allow a Corbyn minority government to take the flak for a year or two. They would then risk electoral destruction, allowing the Cons to say "see, we told you so" and sweep back in for many years afterwards.

Not sure how practical this would be in reality (particularly if a second election was called), and even if it was, if any influential Tory MPs would be strategic enough to think that long-term.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

killer b said:


> He doesn't necessarily need the numbers though: Labour's challenge to the tories (in the still unlikely event of them forming a minority government) is - support or abstain, or give us another election. Right now, I can't see them going for the election, so it'll be abstention.


Right, that makes sense. But if they abstain, what is to stop Corbyn from immediately dissolving parliament and calling another election? Corbyn supported the tories' call for a snap election. They can hardly fail to support his call for the same thing.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Right, that makes sense. But if they abstain, what is to stop Corbyn from immediately dissolving parliament and calling another election?


the fixed term parliament act.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Right, that makes sense. But if they abstain, what is to stop Corbyn from immediately dissolving parliament and calling another election? Corbyn supported the tories' call for a snap election. They can hardly fail to support his call for the same thing.


2/3 house needed to call GE under FTPA


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

Ptolemy said:


> I wondered if some of the Tories would think further ahead and consider a "nuclear option" - whereby a swathe of Tories would conspire to vote against May, bring down the Government and allow a Corbyn minority government to take the flak for a year or two..


As I said above, I don't see how that works. How do they stop Corbyn from just calling another election? I know there's the fixed-term act thing, but we've already seen how little that is worth in reality.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> 2/3 house needed to call GE under FTPA


Yes, and Labour supported the tories to get their snap election. How, politically, do the tories refuse to do the same?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes, and Labour supported the tories to get their snap election. How, politically, do the tories refuse to do the same?


By voting agin.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> By voting agin.


Which would be political suicide, surely. The reason they would be voting agin - the real reason - would be because they think they'd lose the election. But that would be the one reason they could never ever admit to in public.

In that situation, if I were Corbyn, I'd be tempted to get my mps to call for a vote of no-confidence, making very clear that you're doing this in order to get an election.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Which would be political suicide, surely. The reason they would be voting agin - the real reason - would be because they think they'd lose the election. But that would be the one reason they could never ever admit to in public.


Of course, but they'd say it was for the sake of national strength & stability or summat. They'd factor that after a few years folk would have forgotten their cowardice; better than an immediate drubbing.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Of course, but they'd say it was for the sake of national strength & stability or summat. They'd factor that after a few years folk would have forgotten their cowardice; better than an immediate drubbing.


I still don't see how they could sell that, particularly given that Corbyn agreed to their request for the same thing. To be seen to be turning down the chance to get into power? They'd be fucking themselves long-term as well as short-, imo, just as Corbyn would have done if he'd voted against the last election.


----------



## Cid (Jun 21, 2017)

Also the tories in opposition could reliably call a NC vote at will.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

Cid said:


> Also the tories in opposition could reliably call a NC vote at will.


they could. But wouldn't unless the polling gives them a huge lead (although... recent experience suggests they might be wary even then)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

You can't be seen to be putting yourself into opposition on purpose, though. So I think the whole thing is a non-starter. If Corbyn tried a QS, it would be defeated.


----------



## Cid (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You can't be seen to be putting yourself into opposition on purpose, though. So I think the whole thing is a non-starter. If Corbyn tried a QS, it would be defeated.



Probably... But unionist and some tory abstentions could swing it. Mind you there might be labour/SNP/Dem abstentions too.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You can't be seen to be putting yourself into opposition on purpose, though. So I think the whole thing is a non-starter. If Corbyn tried a QS, it would be defeated.


it's what happened with the Labour minority government of 1974.


----------



## Cid (Jun 21, 2017)

killer b said:


> they could. But wouldn't unless the polling gives them a huge lead (although... recent experience suggests they might be wary even then)



Yeah, that's kind of what I mean... Just in response to LBJ's idea of Corbyn trying to command a 2/3 majority. The tories wouldn't need to go along with that, and would know it puts him in a relatively strong position. In the event of a labour minority they may as well let him limp along until the time is right for a NC vote (i.e when they've sorted out their leadership and he's looking bad in the press).


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

killer b said:


> it's what happened with the Labour minority government of 1974.


I didn't know that. Didn't work, though, did it? Also, looking it up, Labour were the biggest party, just, so a rather different situation. We've already had senior tories telling us that the public voted to reject Labour.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I didn't know that. Didn't work, though, did it? Also, looking it up, Labour were the biggest party, just, so a rather different situation. We've already had senior tories telling us that the public voted to reject Labour.


In a sense, it worked remarkably well; even a play about it!


----------



## Badgers (Jun 21, 2017)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> In a sense, it worked remarkably well; even a play about it!


You mean it led to the Thatcher years? 

Personally I don't think it's right to see it like that. The causality isn't so clear.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You mean it led to the Thatcher years?
> 
> Personally I don't think it's right to see it like that. The causality isn't so clear.


No, not at all; i meant purely in the sense of parliamentary survival, which is really the only metric by which the MS parties view these things.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I didn't know that. Didn't work, though, did it? Also, looking it up, Labour were the biggest party, just, so a rather different situation. We've already had senior tories telling us that the public voted to reject Labour.


Sure. This is the logic of Labour's position though. There is precedent.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

Have to say though, that I can't see a way - at the moment - of them getting to give it a go. The DUP won't be voting against, so the best we can hope for there is an abstention. And while the likes of Clarke & Soubry might vote with Labour on less important bills, the idea of them siding with Labour on a confidence vote is inconceivable. So for now, I think the Tories are safe(ish). 

Fuck knows really though. We seem to be in relatively uncharted territory.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

killer b said:


> Have to say though, that I can't see a way - at the moment - of them getting to give it a go. The DUP won't be voting against, so the best we can hope for there is an abstention. And while the likes of Clarke & Soubry might vote with Labour on less important bills, the idea of them siding with Labour on a confidence vote is inconceivable. So for now, I think the Tories are safe(ish).
> 
> Fuck knows really though. We seem to be in relatively uncharted territory.


The creationists will relent and back them next week.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> The creationists will relent and back them next week.


Most likely, but I don't think it really matters anyway. Although, the desperation with which the Tories are courting their support suggests they think it does. So. Fuck knows.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

Regarding the deputy speaker thing, looking it up, the convention is that, including the speaker, the four of them are chosen as two each from either side of the house so that they cancel each other out. So speaker and deputies are effectively out.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

killer b said:


> Have to say though, that I can't see a way - at the moment - of them getting to give it a go. The DUP won't be voting against, so the best we can hope for there is an abstention. And while the likes of Clarke & Soubry might vote with Labour on less important bills, the idea of them siding with Labour on a confidence vote is inconceivable. So for now, I think the Tories are safe(ish).
> 
> Fuck knows really though. We seem to be in relatively uncharted territory.



The problem comes when they're trying to get Brexit legislation through and find they can't do it and they can't reach a compromise. We can't go through five years of deadlock on that, so something will have to happen.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2017)

killer b said:


> Have to say though, that I can't see a way - at the moment - of them getting to give it a go. The DUP won't be voting against, so the best we can hope for there is an abstention. And while the likes of Clarke & Soubry might vote with Labour on less important bills, the idea of them siding with Labour on a confidence vote is inconceivable. So for now, I think the Tories are safe(ish).
> 
> Fuck knows really though. We seem to be in relatively uncharted territory.


The pessimist in me sees this QS as an opportunity to ditch all the unpopular stuff from the manifesto. In due course, probably after the summer, they will ditch May, so they will have a new leader by October who is unencumbered by dementia tax, grammar schools, fox hunting or all the other guff.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The pessimist in me sees this QS as an opportunity to ditch all the unpopular stuff from the manifesto. In due course, probably after the summer, they will ditch May, so they will have a new leader by October who is unencumbered by dementia tax, grammar schools, fox hunting or all the other guff.


Sounds about right; damage limitation in the short-run, then bask in the glory of Brexit success medium term. I'm sure that's what they hope for.


----------



## BemusedbyLife (Jun 21, 2017)

The big issue over the next Parliament is going to be one thing Brexit and to what extent May and her cronies can fuck it up even further, they're not even capable of agreeing amongst themselves let alone with the EU
As for everything else in the Queens Speech here is a quick summary of points from the Beeb


	a Civil Liability Bill, designed to address the "compensation culture" around motoring insurance claims
	a Domestic Violence and Abuse Bill, establishing a Domestic Violence and Abuse Commissioner to stand up for victims and survivors and monitor the response of the authorities
	a Tenant's Fees Bill, banning landlords from charging "letting fees"
	a High-Speed Two Bill to authorise the second leg of the rail link from Birmingham to Crewe
	A Data Protection Bill to strengthen individuals' rights and introduce a "right to be forgotten".
	An Armed Forces Bill allowing people to serve on a part-time and flexible basis

I think they mean banning letting agents from charging tenant fees (which is f*cking outrageous) rather than landlords
Now they've dropped all the contentious right wing shit like expanding grammars and punishing people for having the temerity to be poor what's left is pretty sensible, the devil as always will be in the details but I would broadly expect Labour to support the above.

The fun and games will come when they have to pass a budget


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2017)

Liz wore a blue hat with blue flowers and yellow centres?
  A bit of trolling going on as shes missing ascot?


----------



## angusmcfangus (Jun 21, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Liz wore a blue hat with blue flowers and yellow centres?
> A bit of trolling going on as shes missing ascot?


That was her pro Euro bunnet.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 21, 2017)

angusmcfangus said:


> That was her pro Euro bunnet.



Well spotted. It won't have just been the only thing that wasn't at the laundrette.


----------



## 8den (Jun 21, 2017)

Apparently the DUP want an extra "One Billion Dollars" (best doctor evil voice) for the NHS in Northern Ireland. 

Presumably Queens is going to get a "state of art" gay conversion therapy wing, and a witch dunking pond in every village.


----------



## 8den (Jun 21, 2017)

angusmcfangus said:


> That was her pro Euro bunnet.



According to reports, the Queens outfit is carefully chosen and selected, she can't have thought "I'll just wear the blue dress with the yellow bits in the hat" unwittingly. She may not be able to publicly express her view but I'd say that's as explicitly "fuck brexit" as she gets.


----------



## BemusedbyLife (Jun 21, 2017)

8den said:


> Apparently the DUP want an extra "One Billion Dollars" (best doctor evil voice) for the NHS in Northern Ireland.
> 
> Presumably Queens is going to get a "state of art" gay conversion therapy wing, and a witch dunking pond in every village.


pounds or dollars? this is actually a rational demand (Well the money is i'm guessing/hoping you're joking about the others). Something I saw earlier in the week was that the Orange Order were asking the DUP to demand the right to march downing Garvaghy Road shouting "Fuck yeah!" 
May has backed herself into a corner where something totally reasonable like more money for health is a sticking point because it will cause discontent amongst other regions, best stock up on popcorn


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2017)

the witch dunking is probably going to far
gay conversion not so much
  the barnett formula rather precludes chucking a huge bribe at one region


----------



## 8den (Jun 21, 2017)

BemusedbyLife said:


> pounds or dollars? this is actually a rational demand (Well the money is i'm guessing/hoping you're joking about the others). Something I saw earlier in the week was that the Orange Order were asking the DUP to demand the right to march downing Garvaghy Road shouting "Fuck yeah!"
> May has backed herself into a corner where something totally reasonable like more money for health is a sticking point because it will cause discontent amongst other regions, best stock up on popcorn



Pounds. It's an Austin Powers quote.  A rational demand? It'd be like charging everyone in the rest of the uk £31 quid to give everyone in NI £1,100.


----------



## BemusedbyLife (Jun 21, 2017)

8den said:


> Pounds. It's an Austin Powers quote.  A rational demand? It'd be like charging everyone in the rest of the uk £31 quid to give everyone in NI £1,100.


I said rational not acceptable or reasonable or doable, it is the sort of demand that intelligent and reasonable people that sit down around a table and thrash out the details (and yes i realise that description may be subject to debate) whether May is willing to charge the rest of us £31 so they can have their £1100 is something that she will need to decide and deal with the consequences of. 
Not rational demands are such things teaching creationism in schools, requiring gays to pray themselves straight or chucking away the Good Friday agreement for 10 extra votes in Parliament


----------



## 8den (Jun 21, 2017)

BemusedbyLife said:


> I said rational not acceptable or reasonable or doable, it is the sort of demand that intelligent and reasonable people that sit down around a table and thrash out the details (and yes i realise that description may be subject to debate) whether May is willing to charge the rest of us £31 so they can have their £1100 is something that she will need to decide and deal with the consequences of.
> Not rational demands are such things teaching creationism in schools, requiring gays to pray themselves straight or chucking away the Good Friday agreement for 10 extra votes in Parliament



Okay so lets agree it's outrageous but not irrational...


----------



## coley (Jun 22, 2017)

likesfish said:


> the witch dunking is probably going to far
> gay conversion not so much
> the barnett formula rather precludes chucking a huge bribe at one region


They've been doing it for years, 'United Kingdom' is a fucking joke when it comes down to 'regional spending' Scotland has been one of the most affluent areas of the UK for donkeys yet still benefits substantially from the BF, yet parts of the NE, one of the most deprived areas doesn't! yet we have to watch while Scotland offers bribes to attract investment!


----------



## Humberto (Jun 22, 2017)

Yeah fuck em the minted swindlers.


----------



## LiamO (Jun 22, 2017)

coley said:


> They've been doing it for years, 'United Kingdom' is a fucking joke when it comes down to 'regional spending' Scotland has been one of the most affluent areas of the UK for donkeys yet still benefits substantially from the BF, yet parts of the NE, one of the most deprived areas doesn't! yet we have to watch while Scotland offers bribes to attract investment!



Mebbe your resentment should be directed towards Westminster rather than Scotland?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 22, 2017)

Just to note: By my rekoning, Theresa May will be the first tory to fail to win a General Election majority since Bonar Law in 1918 - the biggest failure of a conservative leader in a century.


----------



## Combustible (Jun 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Just to note: By my rekoning, Theresa May will be the first tory to fail to win a General Election majority since Bonar Law in 1918



Or David Cameron in 2010.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jun 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Just to note: By my rekoning, Theresa May will be the first tory to fail to win a General Election majority since Bonar Law in 1918 - the biggest failure of a conservative leader in a century.


You've got to have a short memory indeed.


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 22, 2017)

On Slugger The DUP deal is nearly done. But they back a hard Brexit to thwart a customs border at the ports.


> ...
> The £2billion demand – with £1billion spent on the National Health Service and £1billion on infrastructure – was made by the DUP this week.
> 
> The Telegraph story added the bizarre detail
> ...


That would be a bung of £1,100 per person in N.I.; it implies £70 billion of public spending in total. Mostly paid for by English tax payers who are often visibly worse off than folk in the 6C. That's the sort of money the EU are demanding as dues on the UK flouncing. Or you might see it as taking a wrecking ball to the "dark tunnel of austerity" but to benefit the only part of the UK that retains a pre-Thatcherite public sector. 

There'll surely be a fat bribe involved in any deal but the DUP are not admitting to those figures; it would basically be opportunistic looting. One thing is for sure with the DUP they'll just be thinking of it as a down payment to be renegotiated. 

It's also been leaking out that the DUP think May's lot are really terrible negotiators. Though dipping No 11's pockets might be a bit short sighted as I can't think of a better way to plant the idea that the entire UK periphery is a greedy parasite best seceded from amongst the put upon English.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 22, 2017)

DUP sees 'very good' chance of Tory deal after winning big concessions

this is all just posturing isn't it? - making out that they are being hard nosed for their domestic audience when the concessions are probably no more than having fancy biscuits at their meetings, a dozen free bowler hats and ulster frys being served in the westminster cafeteria.


----------



## october_lost (Jun 22, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Liz wore a blue hat with blue flowers and yellow centres?
> A bit of trolling going on as shes missing ascot?





angusmcfangus said:


> That was her pro Euro bunnet.





Raheem said:


> Well spotted. It won't have just been the only thing that wasn't at the laundrette.





8den said:


> According to reports, the Queens outfit is carefully chosen and selected, she can't have thought "I'll just wear the blue dress with the yellow bits in the hat" unwittingly. She may not be able to publicly express her view but I'd say that's as explicitly "fuck brexit" as she gets.


I love it, a woman wears a dress and you guys come out on form


----------



## 8den (Jun 22, 2017)

We're not the only people who noticed




She's wearing a blue outfit with yellow dots, she may as well have walked into parliament to the sound of "ode to Joy" and delivered her speech in French.


----------



## 8den (Jun 22, 2017)

Tell you one thing, I bet the Tories were fucking livid when they saw her hat.


----------



## Cid (Jun 22, 2017)

8den said:


> We're not the only people who noticed
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is pretty bait.


----------



## Ptolemy (Jun 22, 2017)

Wonder what the stains at the Sun thought, since they were crowing about "QUEEN BACKS BREXIT" before the referendum.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 22, 2017)

I've been sayhing for a while that celeb and pic driven liberalism in 2017 increasingly resembles monarchism, glad to see these things actually becoming basically indistinguishable.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I've been sayhing for a while that celeb and pic driven liberalism in 2017 increasingly resembles monarchism, glad to see these things actually becoming basically indistinguishable.


lets face it, pageantry was what people had before they invented light entertainment stars. No, back in the olden days all you had was public executions and pageantry


----------



## Santino (Jun 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> lets face it, pageantry was what people had before they invented light entertainment stars. No, back in the olden days all you had was public executions and pageantry


And Mystery Plays.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2017)

Santino said:


> And Mystery Plays.


oh yeah there was the Passion, wheeled out to get the pogroms on


----------



## ohmyliver (Jun 22, 2017)

8den said:


> Tell you one thing, I bet the Tories were fucking livid when they saw her hat.


You want to see the Daily Mail comments, it's political incorrectness gorn mad!


----------



## Libertad (Jun 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> lets face it, pageantry was what people had before they invented light entertainment stars. No, back in the olden days all you had was public executions and pageantry





Santino said:


> And Mystery Plays.





DotCommunist said:


> oh yeah there was the Passion, wheeled out to get the pogroms on



And bear baiting.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> oh yeah there was the Passion, wheeled out to get the pogroms on



Another one I just learned about (ive just been reading a book about the origins of the blood libel) is 'relic tours' 

basically the saints bones would would get wheeled around for a trip around to different places, and in the case of blood libel shit be accompanied with fiery speeches about jews. but people would come along with absurdly exaggerated injuries and touch the relics and then look like they were 'cured' in order to encourage other people to think it could cure them. just totally fucked up, to the extent that even popes and bishops criticised it at the time


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Another one I just learned about (ive just been reading a book about the origins of the blood libel) is 'relic tours'
> 
> basically the saints bones would would get wheeled around for a trip around to different places, and in the case of blood libel shit be accompanied with fiery speeches about jews. but people would come along with absurdly exaggerated injuries and touch the relics and then look like they were 'cured' in order to encourage other people to think it could cure them. just totally fucked up, to the extent that even popes and bishops criticised it at the time


that is messed up. Fake news lol. Still, the protocols are a sterling example of fake news as propagated by someone who would happy to write for brietbart...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 22, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> You've got to have a short memory indeed.



What I meant (hopefully obviously) is during their time as leader. Tory leaders nearly always manage to get at least one overall majority at a GE, which is perplexing in itself. Not Meh though.


----------



## coley (Jun 22, 2017)

Libertad said:


> And bear baiting.



Don't forget, badger baiting, dog fighting and something that may have a bit of a comeback in the Tory party in weeks to come 'cock fighting'


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What I meant (hopefully obviously) is during their time as leader. Tory leaders nearly always manage to get at least one overall majority at a GE, which is perplexing in itself. Not Meh though.



umm

William Hague (lost 2001 election), Ian Duncan Shitwit (didn't last long enough - as leader - for a general election) and Michael Howard (lost 2005 election) were tory leaders who never won a general election or became PM in recentish memory 

and Alec Douglas-Home (became 'unelected' PM when Harold MacMillan resigned part way through a parliament, then lost 1964 general election)


----------



## 8den (Jun 22, 2017)

Puddy_Tat said:


> umm
> 
> William Hague (lost 2001 election), Ian Duncan Shitwit (didn't last long enough - as leader - for a general election) and Michael Howard (lost 2005 election) were tory leaders who never won a general election or became PM in recentish memory
> 
> and Alec Douglas-Home (became 'unelected' PM when Harold MacMillan resigned part way through a parliament, then lost 1964 general election)



But aside from the 7 or 8 examples people have brought up, Taffy is correct tho right?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 23, 2017)

coley said:


> Don't forget, badger baiting, dog fighting and something that may have a bit of a comeback in the Tory party in weeks to come 'cock fighting'




I will not rest until we leglise otter hunting again, the sleek, cute, fish easting endangered species bastards


----------



## Raheem (Jun 23, 2017)

coley said:


> Don't forget, badger baiting, dog fighting and something that may have a bit of a comeback in the Tory party in weeks to come 'cock fighting'



There were wandering minstrels as well. They were popular well into the 20th century, until the BBC realised they were a bit racist.


----------



## Combustible (Jun 23, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What I meant (hopefully obviously) is during their time as leader. Tory leaders nearly always manage to get at least one overall majority at a GE, which is perplexing in itself. Not Meh though.


But this doesn't apply to Andrew Bonar Law who ended up winning a majority in the following election in 1922. He then resigned a year later and his successor called a snap general election and lost his majority. So a completely different situation.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> I will not rest until we leglise otter hunting again, the sleek, cute, fish easting endangered species bastards


i think voters will find that policy otterly unacceptable


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I've been sayhing for a while that celeb and pic driven liberalism in 2017 increasingly resembles monarchism, glad to see these things actually becoming basically indistinguishable.


I found this hat thing astonishing.  First of all, let's imagine the Queen _was_ making a statement.  Why are you cheering that?  The unelected head of state, there by heredity, _sexist_ heredity, and the combined Supreme Governor of the Church of England and supposed source of the Crown-in-Parliament phenomenon which supposedly imbues legitimacy and sovereignty and symbolises the fused powers of executive and legislature, is your idea of a rebel?  She symbolises a state which doesn't get its sovereignty from the people, but from her. And she heads the established religion.  Which has Lords Spiritual in the higher chamber as of right. Not by coincidence. Not who just happen to be bishops and are now also lords. But who are there because the CofE gets Lords by right. And we pay this monarch to live in palaces and own the swans and dolphins. And this you choose as your champion?  Astonishing.

Secondly, it was a blue and yellow hat, ffs.  It takes a real leap to see it as a flag.  It's a hat with flowers on.  It's a fucking hat. A hat.


----------



## Santino (Jun 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I found this hat thing astonishing.  First of all, let's imagine the Queen _was_ making a statement.  Why are you cheering that?  The unelected head of state, there by heredity, _sexist_ heredity, and the combined Supreme Governor of the Church of England and supposed source of the Crown-in-Parliament phenomenon which supposedly imbues legitimacy and sovereignty and symbolises the fused powers of executive and legislature, is your idea of a rebel?  She symbolises a state which doesn't get its sovereignty from the people, but from her. And she heads the established religion.  Which has Lords Spiritual in the higher chamber as of right. Not by coincidence. Not who just happen to be bishops and are now also lords. But who are there because the CofE gets Lords by right. And we pay this monarch to live in palaces and own the swans and dolphins. And this you choose as your champion?  Astonishing.
> 
> Secondly, it was a blue and yellow hat, ffs.  It takes a real leap to see it as a flag.  It's a hat with flowers on.  It's a fucking hat. A hat.


you're a hat


----------



## Pac man (Jun 23, 2017)

Raheem said:


> There were wandering minstrels as well. They were popular well into the 20th century, until the BBC realised they were a bit racist.


We still have a couple in summer at our local haven holiday camp.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 23, 2017)

Puddy_Tat said:


> i think voters will find that policy otterly unacceptable


They'll have to ferret about for an alternative.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> They'll have to ferret about for an alternative.



Usual weasel words will win the day.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 23, 2017)

Poi E said:


> Usual weasel words will win the day.


stoatally


----------



## 8den (Jun 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I found this hat thing astonishing.  First of all, let's imagine the Queen _was_ making a statement.  Why are you cheering that?  The unelected head of state, there by heredity, _sexist_ heredity, and the combined Supreme Governor of the Church of England and supposed source of the Crown-in-Parliament phenomenon which supposedly imbues legitimacy and sovereignty and symbolises the fused powers of executive and legislature, is your idea of a rebel?  She symbolises a state which doesn't get its sovereignty from the people, but from her. And she heads the established religion.  Which has Lords Spiritual in the higher chamber as of right. Not by coincidence. Not who just happen to be bishops and are now also lords. But who are there because the CofE gets Lords by right. And we pay this monarch to live in palaces and own the swans and dolphins. And this you choose as your champion?  Astonishing.



She's not my champion and I'm not British, I'm just more amused that heredity head of your costitutional monarchy is giving two fingers to the sitting govt via her clothing choices. 





> Secondly, it was a blue and yellow hat, ffs.  It takes a real leap to see it as a flag.  It's a hat with flowers on.  It's a fucking hat. A hat.



She's the symbolic head of your country therefore the only thing she can do is make symbolic gestures. Like wearing the EU colours to parliament the day May's govt announce 8 Brexit bills.


----------



## mather (Jun 23, 2017)

8den said:


> I'm just more amused that heredity head of your costitutional monarchy is giving two fingers to the sitting govt via her clothing choices.



How do you know this exactly? Did you ask her? 

Do have any evidence or does your mere opinion now constitute fact?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 23, 2017)

8den said:


> your costitutional monarchy is giving two fingers to the sitting govt via her clothing choices.



Not your finest moment 8den


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

8den said:


> She's not my champion


She is if you approve of and applaud her supposed "rebellion".



> She's the symbolic head of your country therefore the only thing she can do is make symbolic gestures.


She's the actual head of state. Her functions may be mostly symbolic (though not entirely), but her position is literal.



> Like wearing the EU colours to parliament the day May's govt announce 8 Brexit bills.


She wore blue. She has a long history of wearing blue. And if you look at the colour wheel, you'll see that opposite the blues and purples are the oranges and yellows. That's why designers often choose those colours to complement each other. (Any why painters painting a yellow thing use blue and purple in the shading and so on). 

If you have any evidence that the Queen is a big fan of the EU and that this was a conscious choice to represent the EU flag by using different shades of the colours in that flag, then I will happily stand corrected. 

And then I will renew my calls for the monarchy to be abolished, as it is not supposed to interfere in this way.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2017)

I think it's a stretch to think this was a coincidence - too big a stretch. But it could as easily have been an ironic statement about the way brexit is dominating everything at the moment as a statement in support of the EU.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2017)

coley said:


> Don't forget, badger baiting, dog fighting and something that may have a bit of a comeback in the Tory party in weeks to come 'cock fighting'




working class bloodsports coley, will remain banned. Riding about on your horse and inducting your spawn into a vile blood cult activity is strictly for the aristos now


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think it's a stretch to think this was a coincidence - too big a stretch. But it could as easily have been an ironic statement about the way brexit is dominating everything at the moment as a statement in support of the EU.


 

I think it's a stretch to see this as representing a flag.  But then I don't really "get" flags, it has to be said.  But even so, I'm not even seeing a "coincidence".  I'm just seeing an outfit.

Maybe Charles is saying he's a big fan of Metallica's fifth album with that jacket?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2017)

I think you're in a minority, though, danny. It was my first thought when I saw the picture - she's dressed up as the EU flag.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think you're in a minority, though, danny. It was my first thought when I saw the picture - she's dressed up as the EU flag.


close, but no cigar: she is dressed up as a child's impression of a eu flag as per the five curiously spaced yellow bits in her hat.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think you're in a minority, though, danny. It was my first thought when I saw the picture - she's dressed up as the EU flag.


Firstly, wow.

Second, what does the skirt represent?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Firstly, wow.
> 
> Second, what does the skirt represent?


You have to admit that I am far from the only person who saw the resemblance in that hat.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2017)

skirts are not divided, unlike the trousers of brexit


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You have to admit that I am far from the only person who saw the resemblance in that hat.


I'm frequently astonished that people see patterns where there are none, even though I know _why_ it happens.


----------



## inva (Jun 23, 2017)

alternatively the Queen wore blue to support the Tories in this difficult time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> skirts are not divided, unlike the trousers of brexit


it's the stockings underneath the queen's outer attire which represent the division of brexit


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2017)

inva said:


> alternatively the Queen wore blue to support the Tories in this difficult time.


she wore blue to honour the 18th anniversary of eiffel 65's blue (da ba dee) entering the french charts


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 23, 2017)

Libertad said:


> And bear baiting.



Cunts!!!


----------



## killer b (Jun 23, 2017)

I think the queens hat / EU flag thing is nonsense, as is the cap-doffing bullshit from people who should know better that's followed. FWIW.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 23, 2017)

coley said:


> Don't forget, badger baiting, dog fighting and something that may have a bit of a comeback in the Tory party in weeks to come 'cock fighting'



Mind you, some of the old favourites have stayed the course: Sheep-worrying and horse-ripping being two that spring to mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mind you, some of the old favourites have stayed the course: Sheep-worrying and horse-ripping being two that spring to mind.


perhaps some sort of mash-up would be good, e.g. tory-worrying or tory-ripping


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 109986
> 
> I think it's a stretch to see this as representing a flag.  But then I don't really "get" flags, it has to be said.  But even so, I'm not even seeing a "coincidence".  I'm just seeing an outfit.
> 
> Maybe Charles is saying he's a big fan of Metallica's fifth album with that jacket?



You'd think he'd look happier, being allowed to do some "on the job" training, wouldn't you?


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jun 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You have to admit that I am far from the only person who saw the resemblance in that hat.


Loads of people think 911 was a Mossad set up. They're thick or mad.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> Loads of people think 911 was a Mossad set up. They're thick or mad.


It's more like the owls and pyramids stuff.  People need to google apophenia. Including people who'd never buy a book about lines.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It's more like the owls and pyramids stuff.  People need to google apophenia. Including people who'd never buy a book about lines.


ah but semiotics tells us sometimes the language of signs and symbols is deliberate. Like all those masonic symbols Jazzz used to see in disney posters and olympic games ads


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It's more like the owls and pyramids stuff.  People need to google apophenia. Including people who'd never buy a book about lines.


Alright, you patronising sod. There is a blue background with yellow flowers in a ring. That's the resemblance picked up on. I very much doubt it is a coincidence. You disagree? Fine, but don't start lecturing about pattern-recognition stuff.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 23, 2017)

The BBC reported it as being an outfit that resembled the EU flag, fwiw.

It's a shame we haven't voted to leave the monarchy too. Quexit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> The BBC reported it as being an outfit that resembled the EU flag, fwiw.
> 
> It's a shame we haven't voted to leave the monarchy too. Quexit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Alright, you patronising sod.


You see, that's a pattern you're right about.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2017)

Spoiler: Look who was surprised by the Queen's outfit


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Firstly, wow.
> 
> Second, what does the skirt represent?



Blackrod wouldn't let her wear shorts


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 23, 2017)

8den said:


> But aside from the 7 or 8 examples people have brought up, Taffy is correct tho right?



No. I completely fucked up and am duly embarrassed (hides)


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


>



I've never seen this, thank you for posting it. Amazing. Some of those men had incredible handwriting, if those signatures are anything to go by.


----------



## campanula (Jun 23, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> I've never seen this, thank you for posting it. Amazing. Some of those men had incredible handwriting, if those signatures are anything to go by.



I am old enough to recall hours and hours of handwriting practice at school...and my dad's trade as painter, decorator and signwriter bludgeoned me into complete compliance. Consequently, my handwriting is also rather good. A handy skill for job applications...although the limitations are apparent at interview stage.

Yep, I thought the ring of  daisies was just too unlikely to be empty of nuance. Someone was having a laugh.


----------



## coley (Jun 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> working class bloodsports coley, will remain banned. Riding about on your horse and inducting your spawn into a vile blood cult activity is strictly for the aristos now


I detest all "blood sports" any bugger,  be it a twat on a horse chasing foxes,  or a gang of equally dodgy twats with their lurchers and terriers out looking for something to tear apart, are sick bastards and should be treated as such.
Poaching for the pot? no problems, but blood lust?


----------



## coley (Jun 24, 2017)

inva said:


> alternatively the Queen wore blue to support the Tories in this difficult time.


With a bit of yellow as a measure of support for the underdog


----------



## coley (Jun 24, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> I will not rest until we leglise otter hunting again, the sleek, cute, fish easting endangered species bastards


Bugger it, let's be honest, bring back  public hanging, now thon was a well supported activity


----------



## coley (Jun 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> it's the stockings underneath the queen's outer attire which represent the division of brexit


How do you know they are "stockings"? Why not the unity of tights?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 25, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think you're in a minority, though, danny. It was my first thought when I saw the picture - she's dressed up as the EU flag.


Och only if you're that type of wanker that has that EU flag with a tear thing on their profiles surely? I too am in this minority! 


coley said:


> Bugger it, let's be honest, bring back  public hanging, now thon was a well supported activity


I'll do the sanctioning, I have a list....I don't like state sanctioned murder but I'm getting a taste for prole sanctioned hangings aye


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2017)

coley said:


> How do you know they are "stockings"? Why not the unity of tights?


The Queen is something of a traditionalist in matters of undergarments


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2017)

diamarzipan said:


> Och only if you're that type of wanker that has that EU flag with a tear thing on their profiles surely? I too am in this minority!
> 
> I'll do the sanctioning, I have a list....I don't like state sanctioned murder but I'm getting a taste for prole sanctioned hangings aye



That's "impromptu executions as sanctioned by the People's Court", if you don't mind, comrade!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The Queen is something of a traditionalist in matters of undergarments



Her Majesty in an informal moment


----------



## coley (Jun 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The Queen is something of a traditionalist in matters of undergarments


Tights have been around long enough to be considered "traditional"


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2017)

coley said:


> Tights have been around long enough to be considered "traditional"


Her traditions go back more than 1500 years


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 25, 2017)

or as out of habit as her maj still calls them, strumpfhose


----------



## coley (Jun 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Her traditions go back more than 1500 years


Intrigued, do explain?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

coley said:


> Intrigued, do explain?


When was Offa? 750-ish?


----------



## coley (Jun 25, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> When was Offa? 750-ish?



Aye, but I believe there was something of a 'regime change' around 1066?


----------



## coley (Jun 25, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> When was Offa? 750-ish?


dp


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

coley said:


> Aye, but I believe there was something of a 'regime change' around 1066?


He married a Saxon, though.

Hold on I'll google...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

Matilda of Flanders, who was a descendant of Alfred the Great.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 25, 2017)

There was that Dutch princess who got shipped over in the late seventeenth century, too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2017)

coley said:


> Intrigued, do explain?


She can trace her family back to cerdic, first king of wessex  reigned 519-534


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> She can trace her family back to cerdic


I had forgotten that name. Offa was as far back as I could remember. Was Cerdic a Wessex?

(Goes back to Google).


----------



## coley (Jun 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> She can trace her family back to cerdic, first king of wessex  reigned 519-534


But did he wear tights or was he a stockings fan? Did wearing woad indicate he was in favour of the EU?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

Ah, he was the founder of the House of Wessex. Cerdic of Wessex - Wikipedia

I'd mistakenly thought that was Offa.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2017)

coley said:


> But did he wear tights or was he a stockings fan? Did wearing woad indicate he was in favour of the EU?


Records kept at Windsor Castle indicate he was a stockings fan, being credited with inventing the suspender belt


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 26, 2017)

Come On Arlene and Close Personal Chum, the _community activist_ Dee Stitt to her immediate right, on the occasion of giving North Down UDA Charter NI £1.7m 






(Heard about this from cruising YouTube recently - covered in an episode of BBCNI's _Spotlight_ from October; already been wiped from YT on copyright grounds.)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

so looks like some papers have been signed. Probably not the ulster covenant

now lets see what they squeezed out of the tories


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

looks like they found a billion pound bribe on the money tree then. SNAFU


----------



## teqniq (Jun 26, 2017)

Tory lord says 'toxic' DUP will turn Conservatives into 'nasty party'

But you already are, just more so.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2017)

Wow. Is there anything the DUP asked for that _wasn't_ given to them?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 26, 2017)

_"There will be £1.5bn in funding - consisting of £1bn of new money and £500m of previously announced funds - to be spent over the next two years on infrastructure, health and education in Northern Ireland, money Mrs Foster said was needed to address the challenges from Northern Ireland's "unique history".
As part of the deal, the military covenant will be implemented in full in Northern Ireland, meaning more focus on the treatment of military veterans, while the triple lock guarantee of at least a 2.5% rise in the state pension each year, and winter fuel payments, will be maintained throughout the UK.
Other key points of the agreement include:_



_The DUP will support the Tories on all Brexit and security legislation
_
_The UK's 2% Nato defence spending target will continue to be met
_
_Cash support for farmers will remain at current levels until the next election
_
_Both parties to adhere to commitments in Good Friday Agreement
_
_No Irish border poll without "consent of the people"_
 
Fucking hell - how will this bribe play out to the rest of the UK electorate ?


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 26, 2017)

Looks like May caved. 2.5 billion quid of financial support over three years. More frigging roads for Belfast, ultra fast broadband etc etc. If I was an English voter I'd be feeling I just had my pockets dipped.


----------



## maomao (Jun 26, 2017)

Just fucking speechless. With these negotiating skills we'll be out of the common market and still paying money to the EU. What a fucking shower.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 26, 2017)

Recently retired Mrs Scrotum in Whitstable  will put her foot through the telly AND SEND THE DUP THE BILL after this


----------



## moochedit (Jun 26, 2017)

Details here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...etween_the_Conservative_Party_and_the_DUP.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...t__financial_support_for_Northern_Ireland.pdf


----------



## teqniq (Jun 26, 2017)

The vermin are desperate hence the huge sums. I really hope it blows up in their faces ASAP.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 26, 2017)

*moves to NI*
*buys sash*
*learns to play flute*
*fills pockets with free £*


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 26, 2017)

In The Telegraph We could have won election if we had adopted policies in DUP deal, says former party chairman Grant Shapps

Oh the irony.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 26, 2017)

Seems that magic money trees grow really well in Northern Ireland.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 26, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> Looks like May caved. 2.5 billion quid of financial support over three years. More frigging roads for Belfast, ultra fast broadband etc etc. If I was an English voter I'd be feeling I just had my pockets dipped.



Honestly I don't mind Northern Ireland getting extra funding, it is certainly in need of it and the whole thing is yet another demonstration of the fact that austerity is a choice.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Seems that magic money trees grow really well in Northern Ireland.



yeah but they are only 20 years old.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Honestly I don't mind Northern Ireland getting extra funding, it is certainly in need of it and the whole thing is yet another demonstration of the fact that austerity is a choice.


Under other circumstances I would not mind either, however it's a deal been struck with a bunch of creationists, bigots, who have links to actual real terrorists and are anti-women's rights with particular reference to abortion, just so the vermin can cling onto power.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 26, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Under other circumstances I would not mind either, however it's a deal been struck with a bunch of creationists, bigots, who have links to actual real terrorists and are anti-women's rights with particular reference to abortion, just so the vermin can cling onto power.



The DUP do seem to have fantastic negotiating skills, did Arlene Foster threaten to kneecap May's husband or something?


----------



## teqniq (Jun 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> The DUP do seem to have fantastic negotiating skills, did Arlene Foster threaten to kneecap May's husband or something?


Well it was pointed out upthread or somewhere on here by someone that they have had years of negotiating hardball at Stormont that coupled with the fact that the vermin are desperate pretty much clinched it I reckon.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 26, 2017)

as much as I have been taking the piss out of the bonfire-fetishists, them, + the shinners (and the SDLP and UUP) have spent the majority of the past 25 years constantly negotiating so should be pretty experienced by now


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 26, 2017)

doh, beaten to it


----------



## maomao (Jun 26, 2017)

The other thing is that all evidence so far suggests that the Tory bigwigs, particularly May,  are completely shit at negotiating.


----------



## killer b (Jun 26, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> as much as I have been taking the piss out of the bonfire-fetishists, them, + the shinners (and the SDLP and UUP) have spent the majority of the past 25 years constantly negotiating so should be pretty experienced by now


maybe they should be drafted in to help out with the brexit negotiations?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

killer b said:


> maybe they should be drafted in to help out with the brexit negotiations?


Nevah Nevah Nevah


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

maomao said:


> The other thing is that all evidence so far suggests that the Tory bigwigs, particularly May,  are completely shit at negotiating.


She couldn't negotiate her way out of a wet paper bag


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 26, 2017)

May's getting it in the neck from all sides


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> Looks like May caved. 2.5 billion quid of financial support over three years. More frigging roads for Belfast, ultra fast broadband etc etc. If I was an English voter I'd be feeling I just had my pockets dipped.





teqniq said:


> Under other circumstances I would not mind either, however it's a deal been struck with a bunch of creationists, bigots, who have links to actual real terrorists and are anti-women's rights with particular reference to abortion, just so the vermin can cling onto power.


basically. Joe/Jane NI person aren't to blame but its pretty  fucking insulting when those wankers at the paisely fan club can leverage that to keep the tories in power while routinely denying disabled people PIP and cutting cutting always cutting. Grubby wankers


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2017)

£50m per vote per year. Bargain.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 26, 2017)

So, how do we reckon the shinners are going to react to all this? The money enough to appease them to the extent required?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> So, how do we reckon the shinners are going to react to all this? The money enough to appease them to the extent required?


so long as the jobs for the boys get shared round fairly I'm sure all will be well


----------



## moochedit (Jun 26, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> So, how do we reckon the shinners are going to react to all this? The money enough to appease them to the extent required?



DUP-Tory deal facing Sinn Fein backlash over military covenant - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 26, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> basically. Joe/Jane NI person aren't to blame but its pretty  fucking insulting when those wankers at the paisely fan club can leverage that to keep the tories in power while routinely denying disabled people PIP and cutting cutting always cutting. Grubby wankers


 
it is remarkably tactless -it is saying there are people who are more useful and other that less useful to us- and we will reward the more useful and fuck everyone else. May really doesn't get anything does she ? a blunt robotic drone, impervious to nuance and subtlety.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 26, 2017)

I see Osbourne is continuing to stick the boot in


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> it is remarkably tactless -it is saying there are people who are more useful and other that less useful to us- and we will reward the more useful and fuck everyone else. May really doesn't get anything does she ? a blunt robotic drone, impervious to nuance and subtlety.


The PIP was the first to spring to mind cos of recent hassles but more people access the NHS than claim benefits so I'm sure the fact that there is no money for grans hip but plenty to buy the tories 10 fucking votes from loons is going to go down like a cup of cold sick


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 26, 2017)

_"It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation





To call upon a neighbour and to say: –
"We invaded you last night – we are quite prepared to fight,





 Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,





And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld





And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,





To puff and look important and to say: –
"Though we know we should defeat you,
we have not the time to meet you.





We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;





 But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld





 You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,





 For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,





You will find it better policy to say: --

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,





 No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,





 And the nation that plays it is lost!"_

Kipling innit


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 26, 2017)

Sorry if we've had this.

Irish Foreign Affairs Minister says Ireland will veto any Brexit deal if they think GFA is breached. 


https://videos.files.wordpress.com/Lo6sPRpf/covene
y_dvd.mp4


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 26, 2017)

One thing that N.I. folk were never daft enough to vote for was austerity. We need a big Public Sector. It's 10%+ larger than in England. The DUP did run promising to leverage the Hell out of a hung parliament. It was even suggested that they might have preliminary talks with the Tories. Oddly enough if May had not been so certain of a landslide she might have listened to the DUP's objections to some pretty daft policy choices, austerity for old folks comes to mind. It's possible she would have won by a decent margin and not have to go begging to the DUP.

After bringing home this huge windfall the DUP are going to be even more people voting for them. Stormont just managed to waste half a billion and now that's all topped up again. And even if it's direct rule the DUP are going to getting right in Tory ministers faces to make sure the goods get delivered. Unfortunately Northern Ireland politics being what it is I suspect a lot of it will flow into the wealthier more Protestant parts of the NE and to pacify culchies worried about a hard border.


----------



## mather (Jun 26, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> I see Osbourne is continuing to stick the boot in



Whatever delights there are to be had from the current fucks ups of this government, George fucking Osborne is not one of them!


----------



## brogdale (Jun 26, 2017)

Who said they're against same-sex civil partnerships?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 26, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Who said they're against same-sex civil partnerships?
> 
> View attachment 110245



Can't quite read her face there but I wonder if she thinks she's got away with it.


----------



## gosub (Jun 26, 2017)

So SNP should be back up to 50 seats at the next election.... if the going rate for a minority party to prop up a government is 10 votes for a billion. Its in the Scots interest, to the tune of 5 billion to vote for the non Unionised party.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Who said they're against same-sex civil partnerships?
> 
> View attachment 110245


I was going to say "why don't you gay marry them?" on Twitter, but I didn't think many would get the reference.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Seems that magic money trees grow really well in Northern Ireland.


It's like the 70s, prime minister in beer and sandwiches discussions with the union(ist)s.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> The DUP do seem to have fantastic negotiating skills, did Arlene Foster threaten to kneecap May's husband or something?


"There you go feller, you'll not be able to take the bins out for a wee while now"


----------



## Poi E (Jun 26, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> May's getting it in the neck from all sides



Any fewl kno it's the head shot that makes a zombie go down.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 26, 2017)

...erm and if the vermin need another vote in Middlesbrough South in General Election 2017 2.0, £1bn just about overcomes my scruples. _Just_.


----------



## gosub (Jun 26, 2017)

maomao said:


> The other thing is that all evidence so far suggests that the Tory bigwigs, particularly May,  are completely shit at negotiating.



Agreed.   If she'd "very well then,alone!d" this, 'her no deal better than a bad deal'on Brexit might have looked more credible


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 26, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Who said they're against same-sex civil partnerships?
> 
> View attachment 110245



That's a bit much - they're only ordering a meal


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 26, 2017)

A billion? A fucking billion???

Brexit is going to go like a dream isn't it?

Ah well, I'm sure some of it will go on some of that greener energy stuff the DUP are keen on.


----------



## camouflage (Jun 26, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> A billion? A fucking billion???
> 
> Brexit is going to go like a dream isn't it?
> 
> Ah well, I'm sure some of it will go on some of that greener energy stuff the DUP are keen on.



That's an extra billion for all of Northern Ireland isn't it? That's quite well done from the DUP's perspective... not only for themselves as a party, but for all the NI people both protestant and catholic right? Do the DUP deserve a pat on the back from Northern Ireland as a region or will this somehow only be of benefit to the DUPs protestant supporters? If the former than well-played.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 26, 2017)

camouflage said:


> That's an extra billion for all of Northern Ireland isn't it? That's quite well done from the DUP's perspective... not only for themselves as a party, but for all the NI people both protestant and catholic right? Do the DUP deserve a pat on the back from Northern Ireland as a region or will this somehow only be of benefit to the DUPs protestant supporters? If the former than well-played.



It's beside the point whether the money will be spent in sectarian fashion or not (though with such a massive amount, and the north of Ireland's inability to allocate previous funds, it's not too difficult to imagine money 'going awry'). Point is it shows May's inability to negotiate with Brexit coming up and the iniquitous nature of a deal done for the benefit to the Tories of just 10 votes. Can Wales have an extra billion quid? Scotland? Why not?

A bribe's a fucking bribe.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 26, 2017)

camouflage said:


> That's an extra billion for all of Northern Ireland isn't it? That's quite well done from the DUP's perspective... not only for themselves as a party, but for all the NI people both protestant and catholic right? Do the DUP deserve a pat on the back from Northern Ireland as a region or will this somehow only be of benefit to the DUPs protestant supporters? If the former than well-played.


The only thing they've done well is to illustrate the weakness and desperation of the vermin.


----------



## gosub (Jun 26, 2017)

camouflage said:


> That's an extra billion for all of Northern Ireland isn't it? That's quite well done from the DUP's perspective... not only for themselves as a party, but for all the NI people both protestant and catholic right? Do the DUP deserve a pat on the back from Northern Ireland as a region or will this somehow only be of benefit to the DUPs protestant supporters? If the former than well-played.



pallets. they'l spend it on more pallets


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 26, 2017)

So I see that Wales and Scotland are up in arms about NI getting extra money (and fair enough) but actually those who get way the least public funding per head are the English (and I think specifically the non London English). And NI already had the largest amount of funding per head. Not sure how the Tories are going to get away with this politically - every time there is some sort of minor crisis and calls for extra funding Labour will be able to point out they were able to find it for Northern Ireland to prop May up. They already lost strong and stable, now they lose magic money tree too.


----------



## Athos (Jun 26, 2017)

camouflage said:


> That's an extra billion for all of Northern Ireland isn't it? That's quite well done from the DUP's perspective... not only for themselves as a party, but for all the NI people both protestant and catholic right? Do the DUP deserve a pat on the back from Northern Ireland as a region or will this somehow only be of benefit to the DUPs protestant supporters? If the former than well-played.



That'd be like applauding Savile's charity work, now.


----------



## camouflage (Jun 26, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> It's beside the point whether the money will be spent in sectarian fashion or not (though with such a massive amount, and the north of Ireland's inability to allocate previous funds, it's not too difficult to imagine money 'going awry'). Point is it shows May's inability to negotiate with Brexit coming up and the iniquitous nature of a deal done for the benefit to the Tories of just 10 votes. Can Wales have an extra billion quid? Scotland? Why not?
> 
> A bribe's a fucking bribe.



Well I did say *from the DUPs point of view*. As far as May the Tories and the rest of Britain are concerned of course we all agree it's an epic fuck-up.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 26, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> A bribe's a fucking bribe.


I'm taking a positive from this; it's also a ticking PR time-bomb. There's absolutely no way you can disguise it being a bribe, made out of desperation. It was difficult for them to look even worse than they did before. But somehow, that's exactly what they've done.


----------



## elbows (Jun 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Seems that magic money trees grow really well in Northern Ireland.



Yeah, the tories were so fucking smug when they thought they had struck gold with the 'magic money tree' bullshit during the election. Well not only did it fail them at the polling booth, the phrase also seems to be coming back to haunt them just as you referenced.

There's no magic money tree - unless you're making a deal with the DUP


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> I'm taking a positive from this; it's also a ticking PR time-bomb. There's absolutely no way you can disguise it being a bribe, made out of desperation. It was difficult for them to look even worse than they did before. But somehow, that's exactly what they've done.


As Einstein said, the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 26, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> So I see that Wales and Scotland are up in arms about NI getting extra money (and fair enough) but actually those who get way the least public funding per head are the English (and I think specifically the non London English). And NI already had the largest amount of funding per head. Not sure how the Tories are going to get away with this politically - every time there is some sort of minor crisis and calls for extra funding Labour will be able to point out they were able to find it for Northern Ireland to prop May up. They already lost strong and stable, now they lose magic money tree too.




(((magic money tree)))


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> As Einstein said, the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


Like it! (though I always thought it was 'genius knows its limits`}


----------



## Tropi (Jun 27, 2017)

This 1.5 billion is an investment!
Michael Fallon defends £1bn DUP deal amid backlash


----------



## Poi E (Jun 27, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> but actually those who get way the least public funding per head are the English (and I think specifically the non London English).



I'd like to see funding analysed relative to income levels and deprivation, as there is surely a case that funding is of greater importance to those below a certain income level (a point to which, I think, you allude, and which is skewed in England's case by parts of London and the South East.) The whole notion of basing analysis of and public point scoring around funding on national/geographical grounds comes across as both divisive and a distraction from the need and utility of government spending.


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 27, 2017)

Poi E said:


> I'd like to see funding analysed relative to income levels and deprivation, as there is surely a case that funding is of greater importance to those below a certain income level (a point to which, I think, you allude, and which is skewed in England's case by parts of London and the South East.) The whole notion of basing analysis of and public point scoring around funding on national/geographical grounds comes across as both divisive and a distraction from the need and utility of government spending.


Of course under New Labour for all its faults, all sorts of different funding streams were linked to the Indices of Multiple Deprivation, a formula ripped up by the Tories/Lib Dems in favour of a simple population approach, hence why public sector cuts have been so much worse in poorer areas. I take your point about not basing these arguments on geography, plenty of poverty in London etc, but it's undeniable that whole geographic areas of the country get a raw deal at the moment.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2017)

gosub said:


> pallets. they'l spend it on more pallets


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2017)

elbows said:


> Yeah, the tories were so fucking smug when they thought they had struck gold with the 'magic money tree' bullshit during the election. Well not only did it fail them at the polling booth, the phrase also seems to be coming back to haunt them just as you referenced.
> 
> There's no magic money tree - unless you're making a deal with the DUP
> 
> View attachment 110265



Excellent graphic, apart from the fact that it's £1bn of extra funding over the next two 2 years, not £1.5bn.

If this fucked-up arrangement carries on beyond 2 years, I suspect the figure will be far greater than £1.5b TBH.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 27, 2017)

Tropi said:


> This 1.5 billion is an investment!


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 27, 2017)

camouflage said:


> That's an extra billion for all of Northern Ireland isn't it? That's quite well done from the DUP's perspective... not only for themselves as a party, but for all the NI people both protestant and catholic right? Do the DUP deserve a pat on the back from Northern Ireland as a region or will this somehow only be of benefit to the DUPs protestant supporters? If the former than well-played.


The DUP are saying the loot is for everybody but I think you'll see a disproportionate amount getting spent in the NE which is mostly already better developed and is where the Prod majorities are. Middle Class Catholics who often work in the public sector will do very nicely out of it. It's what usually happens. SF are not nearly as sleekit when it comes to the pork barrel as the DUP at least that is what SDLP supporters say. It'll be more slanted if SF remain absent of course and their RC communities are unrepresented. 

It's a bit rich that the part of the UK that has just had a scandal with wasting half a billion quid gets the windfall because the person most responsible, Arlene, ends up with a bumbling British PM begging for her help. Maybe God is a Free Presbyterian after all.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 27, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> It's a bit rich that the part of the UK that has just had a scandal with wasting half a billion quid gets the windfall because the person most responsible, Arlene, ends up with a bumbling British PM begging for her help. Maybe God is a Free Presbyterian after all.



Luck of the Irish.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2017)

Poi E said:


> Luck of the Irish.



And, shit for the rest of us.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 27, 2017)

Poi E said:


> Luck of the Irish.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 27, 2017)

Amazing that the Daily Mail manage to get anti-Irish bigotry about drinking into their cartoon about the DUP


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 27, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> but actually those who get way the least public funding per head are the English (and I think specifically the non London English).


Actually, Londoners are per capita easily the biggest net contributors to the exchequer, followed by those in the home counties


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 27, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> Actually, Londoners are per capita easily the biggest net contributors to the exchequer, followed by those in the home counties


Yes... but that's a different thing entirely to amount of public funding per head. The fact that London generates more tax because our economy has been structured over many decades to favour the capital is neither here nor there.


----------



## 8den (Jun 27, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> The DUP are saying the loot is for everybody but I think you'll see a disproportionate amount getting spent in the NE which is mostly already better developed and is where the Prod majorities are. Middle Class Catholics who often work in the public sector will do very nicely out of it. It's what usually happens. SF are not nearly as sleekit when it comes to the pork barrel as the DUP at least that is what SDLP supporters say. It'll be more slanted if SF remain absent of course and their RC communities are unrepresented.
> 
> It's a bit rich that the part of the UK that has just had a scandal with wasting half a billion quid gets the windfall because the person most responsible, Arlene, ends up with a bumbling British PM begging for her help. Maybe God is a Free Presbyterian after all.



Quite a good piece 

What the DUP have negotiated is much smarter than many predicted


Also 

Belfast council refuses to replace bonfire pallets stolen from storage - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


----------



## 8den (Jun 27, 2017)

This will be my first time up north for the 12th in years and years, and I completely missed this genuine ad campaign you'll find on billboards up here,


 






Really think the slogan should have been "enjoy sectarianism responsibily".


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 27, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> Actually, Londoners are per capita easily the biggest net contributors to the exchequer, followed by those in the home counties



Maybe because the profits of most of the UK's labour gets funnelled through London in one form or another?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 27, 2017)

I


SpookyFrank said:


> Maybe because the profits of most of the UK's labour gets funnelled through London in one form or another?


No, i think where I read the Stat, it was based on income tax and council tax for the paid-in element. 
However, I can't be sure of that


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 27, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> I
> 
> No, i think where I read the Stat, it was based on income tax and council tax for the paid-in element.
> However, I can't be sure of that


Even if that's the case, what it means is that people in London collectively pay more tax because they are richer, and the public funding per head they get back is less than that (so they are net contributors). They still get more public funding per head than every part of the UK apart from Scotland and Northern Ireland.


----------



## Supine (Jun 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Maybe because the profits of most of the UK's labour gets funnelled through London in one form or another?



That's basically rubbish. London is a big productive city for sure. 

Our hard work outside of London gets funnelled through multinational companies and hedge funding though. Not through the city where the streets are paved with gold.


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 27, 2017)

> ...
> Really think the slogan should have been "enjoy sectarianism responsibily".


That's a tidy summary of the GFA.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 27, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> I
> 
> No, i think where I read the Stat, it was based on income tax and council tax for the paid-in element.
> However, I can't be sure of that



Wages are higher because of banking, insurance, government and other parasitical industries being centered on London


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Wages are higher because of banking, insurance, government and other parasitical industries being centered on London


I don't dispute that at all. Still doesn't alter the point of Londoners being net contributors


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 27, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> They still get more public funding per head than every part of the UK apart from Scotland and Northern Ireland.


Evidence please


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 28, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> Evidence please


----------



## killer b (Jun 28, 2017)

Why are you being weird and touchy about London?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 28, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> Actually, Londoners are per capita easily the biggest net contributors to the exchequer, followed by those in the home counties


Net contributors or net takers, given the huge wealth the rich keep for themselves? If you're making money out of owning stuff and paying a bit of that in tax, what are you contributing?

If a landlord charges their tenants £10k a month and pays £2k of that in tax, are they contributing more to the exchequer than their tenants, who pay £500 a month each to the landlord for the privilege of using the thing the landlord owns and perhaps only pay £500 a month each to the exchequer? Or is this some other process? Without the landlord siphoning off their earnings, the tenants could all afford to pay more tax and still be just as well off as they are now. 

Isn't much of this 'contribution' of the rich merely an illusion? A trick?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 28, 2017)

killer b said:


> Why are you being weird and touchy about London?


A) l'm a Londoner
B) not being that touchy - more pedantic
C) in my job, I'm literally swimming in public sector expenditure info all the time, and what I've seen here, on this thread, doesn't accord with all I know from that. So, I'm interested to see different info. Apologies for slight derail


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 28, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> View attachment 110336


Can't see on my mobile, will view tomorrow at work


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 28, 2017)

8den said:


> This will be my first time up north for the 12th in years and years, and I completely missed this genuine ad campaign you'll find on billboards up here,
> 
> 
> View attachment 110324
> ...


‘Ethnic cleansing not palate cleansing’


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 28, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> Evidence please


He who smelt it dealt it


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 28, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Net contributors or net takers, given the huge wealth the rich keep for themselves? If you're making money out of owning stuff and paying a bit of that in tax, what are you contributing?
> 
> If a landlord charges their tenants £10k a month and pays £2k of that in tax, are they contributing more to the exchequer than their tenants, who pay £500 a month each to the landlord for the privilege of using the thing the landlord owns and perhaps only pay £500 a month each to the exchequer? Or is this some other process? Without the landlord siphoning off their earnings, the tenants could all afford to pay more tax and still be just as well off as they are now.
> 
> Isn't much of this 'contribution' of the rich merely an illusion? A trick?


I agree with all you say there. The rentier aspect of London's economy is huge, and makes a mockery, IMO, of economic statistics


----------



## ddraig (Jun 28, 2017)

wrt London is it not down to density of people?


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)




----------



## Dom Traynor (Jun 28, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> I
> 
> No, i think where I read the Stat, it was based on income tax and council tax for the paid-in element.
> However, I can't be sure of that


Evidence please


----------



## Poi E (Jun 28, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Amazing that the Daily Mail manage to get anti-Irish bigotry about drinking into their cartoon about the DUP



Giles would have done it with some actual humour and not just bigotry.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2017)

Streathamite said:


> I don't dispute that at all. Still doesn't alter the point of Londoners being net contributors



Just trying to qualify that point by adding the bit about how many of those contributors are contibuting other people's money.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Net contributors or net takers, given the huge wealth the rich keep for themselves? If you're making money out of owning stuff and paying a bit of that in tax, what are you contributing?
> 
> If a landlord charges their tenants £10k a month and pays £2k of that in tax, are they contributing more to the exchequer than their tenants, who pay £500 a month each to the landlord for the privilege of using the thing the landlord owns and perhaps only pay £500 a month each to the exchequer? Or is this some other process? Without the landlord siphoning off their earnings, the tenants could all afford to pay more tax and still be just as well off as they are now.
> 
> Isn't much of this 'contribution' of the rich merely an illusion? A trick?



I doubt the numbers exist, because of trust funds, offshore fuckery etc, but I would like to see contribution to the exchequer as a proportion of income broken down by region. I think that would tell a very different story.

Income and wealth too, come to think of it.


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 28, 2017)

The whole 'London is a net contributor' thing tends to be made by people who want London to be a kind of independent city state (perhaps I should say City state) that keeps its tax revenues to spend on Londoners. It tries to point to a spurious unfairness that London doesn't get all its money back, completely ignoring the unfairness that exists economically between London and other areas of the UK and ignoring the fact that London does get more public funding per head than other areas of England and Wales. Really, it's those areas that are poor and don't raise enough taxation to adequately support themselves that need the higher levels of public funding, especially for infrastructure, investment etc. Without intra-regional transfers of money the country would fall to bits. And the Conservatives have already gone down this road with business rates, allowing local authorities to keep what they raise, which is going to be a boon for London and South East boroughs and a fucking nightmare for post-industrial towns and rural areas.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 28, 2017)

Yeah, arguments about this agreement that focus on which parts of the country are net contributors, or which receive the highest spending, seem misconceived. The point isn't that public funds are being transferred from wealthy regions to more deprived ones, which is a necessary tool for managing the political economy of a modern nation state. Even as the Tories were violently 'restructuring' Britain in the 1980s, public funds would have flowed from London and the Home Counties into parts of the country that were being deindustrialised. The point should be about how this particular decision was reached and how it discredits the government's austerity policies for Britain.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 28, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Amazing that the Daily Mail manage to get anti-Irish bigotry about drinking into their cartoon about the DUP



Strange how The Mail moans about a possible return to the 70s under social democracy when their own abjectly racist "humour" is the far greater throw-back.


----------



## Casually Red (Jun 29, 2017)




----------



## Casually Red (Jun 29, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Amazing that the Daily Mail manage to get anti-Irish bigotry about drinking into their cartoon about the DUP




It's particularly daft when the DUP are the party who gave us the Beer festival with no beer . Among other things .

From brat to wurst: Banbridge Oktoberfest cancelled after unionists say 'nein' to alcohol sales at Solitude Park - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Many of its members refer to alcohol as " the devils buttermilk " .although most of their voters take a vastly different attitude . And their response to such racist characterisations will be along the lines of "stop mixing us up with the Catholics " .


----------



## Casually Red (Jun 29, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> Maybe we need to take these theatrics with a pinch of salt. The DUP get to show that they're flexing their muscles to constituents back in Norn Iron, while the more moderate Tories are reassured that May isn't jumping into bed with some throwbacks from the seventeenth century. While it all highlights how fragile the government will be, it also suits both sides for this arrangement to appear not to go too smoothly.



That's precisely what Adams and McGuinness were doing with Blair and Powell years ago . Stern faces for the cameras outside . Inside the two of them were playing on Leo Blairs skateboard while Blair and in particular Powell..MI6...were writing Adams position papers and speeches for him . Literally word for word . Wouldne be surprised if this was the same tactic at play . Except in reverse .


----------



## likesfish (Jun 29, 2017)

tbf labeling the dup as drunken paddys does annoy them own two levels admittedly the mail readership wont get the joke


----------



## Casually Red (Jun 29, 2017)

likesfish said:


> tbf labeling the dup as drunken paddys does annoy them own two levels admittedly the mail readership wont get the joke



I was thinking that myself .


----------



## Casually Red (Jun 29, 2017)

Fart in a space suit territory

Theresa May accused by Tories of 'going too far' by describing DUP MPs as her 'honourable friends' in wake of £1billion deal


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2017)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 2, 2017)

elbows said:


>



I fucking love this!


----------



## Casually Red (Jul 2, 2017)

elbows said:


>



Theresa May spent £20,000 flying Arlene Foster home in an RAF plane





Worth rembering this is only the start . They'll be back for more . That billion and a half bung would barely cover what they burned up the chimney on cash for ash . It's a down payment .


----------



## 8den (Jul 2, 2017)

Fuck you Daily Mail. Leaving aside it's a nasty traditional slur of the British Right Wing Press to suggest the Irish are all drunks. But the DUP are a bunch of tea totalling Prods who'd never fucking touch Guinness. Paisley's Dad called it "the devil's buttermilk".


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 110615
> 
> 
> Fuck you Daily Mail. Leaving aside it's a nasty traditional slur of the British Right Wing Press to suggest the Irish are all drunks. But the DUP are a bunch of tea totalling Prods who'd never fucking touch Guinness. Paisley's Dad called it "the devil's buttermilk".


should have depicted them all fighting as well as pissed to hit all the beats of the classic r/w press slurs


----------



## 8den (Jul 2, 2017)

Here's another thing. 

As you know, the glorious twelfth is coming up. Were giant bonfires are lit all across the province. Massive huge things that have been know to set nearby houses on fire. Many will have banners and tricolors with "Keep Antrim Tidy" which actually stands for "Kill all Taigs" as well as homophobic and racist language. 

Now you'll be saying to yourself "is that legal" well no of course not, on any number of grounds (health and safety for a start, environmental etc..) none the less that doesn't stop DUP councillors and MPs from attending and lighting some bonfires. 

Now it turns out that not only were Belfast council storing a lot of pallets specifically for a massive bonfire near the main Belfast hospital (which I suppose is as close to H&S as they get), but these pallets were stolen. But now we find out the PSNI knew about the storage and did nothing about it. PSNI was aware of Belfast council bonfire pallets storage

And you wonder why the PSNI is still distrusted by the Catholic Community.


----------



## Casually Red (Jul 2, 2017)

Wow , that's very interesting news 8den . I trust your trip to the moon for the past few weeks went well . Thanks for keeping us all fully up to date.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 2, 2017)

Someone told me down the pub at lunchtime that the Lewes bonfire lot, famous for burning effigies such as bin Laden & Trump...



Spoiler: Effigies















...are talking about doing Arlene Foster this year. 

If there's a God, this will happen!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 2, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Wow , that's very interesting news 8den . I trust your trip to the moon for the past few weeks went well . Thanks for keeping us all fully up to date.


----------



## 8den (Jul 2, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Wow , that's very interesting news 8den . I trust your trip to the moon for the past few weeks went well . Thanks for keeping us all fully up to date.




I forgot you live in a world where if you are appalled by shit covered RIRA terrorists, you must, therefore, be a PSNI apologist.


----------



## Casually Red (Jul 2, 2017)

8den said:


> I forgot ....



You've also forgotten you announced you had me on ignore the other week .
Just before you got into your space capsule obviously .

Finger on the pulse as usual .


----------



## Supine (Jul 2, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Someone told me down the pub at lunchtime that the Lewes bonfire lot, famous for burning effigies such as bin Laden & Trump...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That will definitely happen


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 2, 2017)

post removed cos i was wrong


----------



## Casually Red (Jul 2, 2017)




----------



## Ground Elder (Jul 2, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> you forgot to mention that there most (in)famous effigy was a of a "pikey bus" full of Irish travellers.


That was the Firle Bonfire society, not Lewes.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 2, 2017)

Ground Elder said:


> That was the Firle Bonfire society, not Lewes.



ah ok - i stand corrected. as you were.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 2, 2017)

lewes do the traditional burning of the pope but its tradition rather than the genuine hatred of the nothern prods


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 2, 2017)

likesfish said:


> lewes do the traditional burning of the pope but its tradition rather than the genuine hatred of the nothern prods



Nothing to do with exacting revenge for the Lewes Protestant Martyrs then?

Lewes Martyrs - Wikipedia

Oh and Firle is all of 5 miles from Lewes so definitely no crossover there eh GE?


----------



## Ground Elder (Jul 2, 2017)

They are different bonfire societies, organised by and involving different people. I'm not sure what point you are making planetgeli?


----------



## LiamO (Jul 2, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Theresa May spent £20,000 flying Arlene Foster home in an RAF plane


----------



## Ole (Jul 3, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Theresa May spent £20,000 flying Arlene Foster home in an RAF plane
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolute fucking comedy gold


----------



## likesfish (Jul 3, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Nothing to do with exacting revenge for the Lewes Protestant Martyrs then?
> 
> Lewes Martyrs - Wikipedia
> 
> Oh and Firle is all of 5 miles from Lewes so definitely no crossover there eh GE?



its more an excuse for a bit of anarchy these days than organised anti Catholicism nobody is running round attacking Catholics in Sussex


----------



## DownwardDog (Jul 3, 2017)

LiamO said:


>




That 20k figure is toss. There is no way an RAF Jumbolina costs 7k/hour to operate. No finance costs on the hull for a start...


----------



## hippogriff (Jul 3, 2017)

DownwardDog said:


> That 20k figure is toss. There is no way an RAF Jumbolina costs 7k/hour to operate. No finance costs on the hull for a start...


No reason why the RAF can't make a profit on the deal, if it's coming out of party funds ...


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 3, 2017)

likesfish said:


> (...) but its tradition rather than the genuine hatred (...)


So a bit like jokes about May and Foster being lesbians.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 3, 2017)

Lurdan said:


> So a bit like jokes about May and Foster being lesbians.


I took that joke as being a pop at traditional Tory/dup attitudes to homosexuality, rather than being a joke at the expense of lesbianism. Maybe I'm just too nice


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 3, 2017)

tbf I did think the same, 'jokes' about alcoholism and homosexuality seem aimed at winding up the teetotal and/or homophobic elements of the DUP's constituency.


----------



## Casually Red (Jul 3, 2017)

Well this is embarrassing . A bit like loudly slagging off someone down the pub and having to sheepishly ring them up the next morning trying to borrow a 20 .

Theresa May 'called David Cameron' to beg for his support on DUP deal

Not dignified .


----------



## teqniq (Jul 3, 2017)

This looks likely to be the start of it all coming unglued.

Theresa May's DUP deal to blame for new power-sharing crisis, Sinn Fein says



> Sinn Fein has blamed Theresa May’s deal with the Democratic Unionist Party for the failure to restore power-sharing in Northern Ireland, as another crisis looms.
> 
> The DUP has been “emboldened” by propping up the Conservatives at Westminster, the Republican party claimed – making it less likely to compromise at Stormont.
> 
> The claim came as Sinn Fein confirmed the talks were failing. “We don’t think its likely there will be a deal in the short term,” said spokesman Conor Murphy....


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 13, 2017)

as predicted

DUP plans to vote with Labour on NHS pay and tuition fees


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 19, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Come On Arlene and Close Personal Chum, the _community activist_ Dee Stitt to her immediate right, on the occasion of giving North Down UDA Charter NI £1.7m
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Charter NI clusterfuck still causing ripples for the DUP:

Exclusive: DUP's Newton all smiles with UDA terror chief Birch - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk


----------



## weepiper (Jul 31, 2019)

Wasn't sure where to put this but it seems a significant and hopeful development for NI


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2019)

weepiper said:


> Wasn't sure where to put this but it seems a significant and hopeful development for NI



Blimey, we really are in interesting times - if anyone didn't pick up on it, this is Harland and Wolff of all places.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 31, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Blimey, we really are in interesting times - if anyone didn't pick up on it, this is Harland and Wolff of all places.


Interesting times? This is  a whole alternate history!


----------



## weepiper (Jul 31, 2019)




----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 28, 2021)

LBC reporting Arlene has resigned


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 28, 2021)

ruffneck23 said:


> LBC reporting Arlene has resigned



Yep, she's going.









						Arlene Foster to step down as DUP leader and Northern Ireland's first minister, she tells Sky News
					

The politician's resignation comes after 75% of the DUP's Assembly members signed a letter demanding a leadership contest.




					news.sky.com


----------



## brogdale (Apr 28, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yep, she's going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DUP 'Leadership' contest, then?


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 28, 2021)

Ponders who the dumbest  orange clad raving fuck wit  in the party


think they will be picking that one


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 28, 2021)

Trouble is, they will probably end up with a more hard-line leader.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 28, 2021)

Tidy!








						Arlene Foster announces resignation as DUP leader and NI first minister
					

Mrs Foster says she is stepping down as leader on 28 May and as NI first minister at the end of June.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 28, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Trouble is, they will probably end up with a more hard-line leader.



oh it all about getting a more hard line leader 
will more than likely break off all cross the boarder of Ireland cooperation 

Because the fuckwits in the DUP wanted to go with Brexit and are not happy with the results


----------



## ska invita (Apr 28, 2021)

Potentially interesting new position to be taken by a new leader in relation to the NI Protocol which is set to be enforced later in the year ??


----------



## philosophical (Apr 28, 2021)

She should have backed May’s ‘deal’.
If I remember rightly she used to vaguely go on about trusted trader stuff, technology at the border, declarations and so on as her get out clause in blocking May’s deal, but actually went all cakeist with fantasist hundreds and thousands sprinkled on top.
BTW has anybody heard any latest news about a technological EU/UK land border in Ireland?
Used to be all the rage.


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 28, 2021)

think the DUP lost some credibility international, when the forced a plaque on the giants causeway  stating that "God did it"


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 28, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> think the DUP lost some credibility international, when the forced a plaque on the giants causeway  stating that "God did it"



This implies the DUP ever had credibility with anyone.


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## teqniq (Apr 29, 2021)




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## seeformiles (Apr 29, 2021)

teqniq said:


>




I went to school with idiots like this... 🙄


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## TopCat (Apr 29, 2021)

Looks like the unionist vote will split again.


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## Ax^ (Apr 29, 2021)

did they all say No No No


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## vanya (Apr 29, 2021)

If the word No was taken out of the language they'd be speechless.


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## MrSpikey (Apr 30, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Trouble is, they will probably end up with a more hard-line leader.



I was worried about this too when I heard that Arlene abstaining in a vote to ban gay conversion therapy was the main driver for the resignation calls.

However, it turns out that all they are actually calling for is a "return to the...Christian values of our party". 

I find the prospect of this new, other-cheek-turning, sinner-loving, peacemaker-blessing approach a breath of fresh air - well done, DUP!


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## seeformiles (Apr 30, 2021)

MrSpikey said:


> I was worried about this too when I heard that Arlene abstaining in a vote to ban gay conversion therapy was the main driver for the resignation calls.
> 
> However, it turns out that all they are actually calling for is a "return to the...Christian values of our party".
> 
> I find the prospect of this new, other-cheek-turning, sinner-loving, peacemaker-blessing approach a breath of fresh air - well done, DUP!



Taking NI back to the 18th Century


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## quiet guy (Apr 30, 2021)

MrSpikey said:


> I was worried about this too when I heard that Arlene abstaining in a vote to ban gay conversion therapy was the main driver for the resignation calls.
> 
> However, it turns out that all they are actually calling for is a "return to the...Christian values of our party".
> 
> I find the prospect of this new, other-cheek-turning, sinner-loving, peacemaker-blessing approach a breath of fresh air - well done, DUP!


Do you have to read that in your bestest Rev Ian Paisley accent?


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## quiet guy (Apr 30, 2021)

seeformiles said:


> Taking NI back to the 18th Century


Some would say that there are many over there who have never really moved out of the 18th century.


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## seeformiles (Apr 30, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> Some would say that there are many over there who have never really moved out of the 18th century.


And I agree


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## Mordi (Apr 30, 2021)

seeformiles said:


> Taking NI back to the 18th Century



I think I'd rather have the Protestant fundamentalists of the 18th century than the current lot.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 30, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> Do you have to read that in your bestest Rev Ian Paisley accent?



NO


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## Rimbaud (Apr 30, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> Some would say that there are many over there who have never really moved out of the 18th century.



These days, ironically, I think the Republic of Ireland has a lot more in common with England than Northern Ireland does.

Might not have been the case 50 years ago when RoI was almost a Catholic theocracy; but whereas both the UK and Ireland have changed since then and moved in broadly a similar direction, the NI protestants have stuck rigidly to the social attitudes of 100 years ago, which is now a million miles away from mainstream British attitudes - which actually makes them more foreign to the UK than Ireland is.


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## teqniq (May 3, 2021)

Yuk:


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## Puddy_Tat (May 3, 2021)

teqniq said:


> Yuk:




and he sounds like he might be the more rational / moderate (relatively speaking) of the two candidates so far...


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## brogdale (May 12, 2021)

talking to the paramilitaries...how very Corbynesque


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## Argonia (May 14, 2021)

Apparently the new leader of the DUP believes the earth is about 6000 years old


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## brogdale (May 14, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Apparently the new leader of the DUP believes the earth is about 6000 years old


Can hardly object when we call them dinosaurs, then?


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## quiet guy (May 14, 2021)

Poot, poot.


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2021)

When the history of the dup comes to be written this will go down as the Poots putsch


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## seeformiles (May 14, 2021)

Sadly an unsurprising choice


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2021)

seeformiles said:


> Sadly an unsurprising choice


No good choices in dup leadership contests


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## quiet guy (May 14, 2021)

It was a very limited pool to start with.


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> It was a very limited pool to start with.


Drain the swamp


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## brogdale (May 14, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> It was a very limited pool to start with.


When the selectorate is under 50 people...


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## quiet guy (May 14, 2021)

Just seen him on the news and he's not a very dynamic speaker and he's got very long ears.


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## DJWrongspeed (May 14, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Apparently the new leader of the DUP believes the earth is about 6000 years old


Was just hearing this on the radio. It's nuts. Shows the unique position of the DUP in uk politics I guess.


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## mx wcfc (May 14, 2021)




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## Wilf (May 15, 2021)

Edward Poots - sounds like some minor Dickensian cleric.  A bloodless fellow who fell out with Mr Gradgrind over the latter's progressive views on education and the age of the earth.


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## Humberto (May 15, 2021)

Has a monkey brain in a jar perhaps.


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## Raheem (May 15, 2021)

I guess when your party's made a nonsense of its whole raison d'être, pretending it's all about the fossil record is the place you've got left to go.

Anyone else think he looks like Seamus Heaney after a diet?


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## William of Walworth (May 15, 2021)

I had to check BBC Northern Ireland for information about the Poots 'victory'  

Urbans, please provide *links* when there's been news of this kind!! 

Also, here's a BBC profile of this Poots reactionary.

And reactionary he really is!


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## Dogsauce (May 31, 2021)

All kicking off now.









						Edwin Poots braced for a raft of resignations as DUP implodes
					

New Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) leader Edwin Poots is facing a string of resignations as Northern Ireland’s largest party continues to implode.




					www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk
				




_insert Windsor Davis meme here_


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## Badgers (May 31, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> All kicking off now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent news


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## two sheds (May 31, 2021)

I thought for a moment there they might be resigning because he's a fundamentalist christian wacko. Doesn't look like


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## ddraig (Jun 11, 2021)

O RLY!?  fuck off Paisley, and sir Van








						Sir Van Morrison: Ian Paisley defends joining anti-Swann chant
					

Ian Paisley and the singer chanted about the NI health minister after cancellation of Belfast gigs.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




*DUP MP Ian Paisley has defended joining Sir Van Morrison in chanting that Northern Ireland's Health Minister Robin Swann "is very dangerous" at a cancelled concert in Belfast.*
It came after four gigs by Sir Van at the Europa Hotel were cancelled at the last moment on Thursday.
Sir Van has been an outspoken critic of Covid-19 restrictions.

Mr Paisley said: "What was parody, comedy, banter and sarcasm should not be blown out of all proportion."
Sir Van took to the stage and addressed about 140 people who were at the dinner event after the gig was cancelled.

The singer referred to previous comments made by Mr Swann in Rolling Stone magazine, in which he described the singer as dangerous.
"Last night's event was very sad for the live music industry. I was put on the spot and called to the stage," the North Antrim MP said in a statement.
"I certainly don't believe Robin is dangerous. I think the parody and sarcasm of that comment is obvious.

"There is a balance in all of these matters and at times we get them right and at times wrong. We are all entitled to our own views on how the lockdown has been managed."


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## steveo87 (Jun 17, 2021)

DUP leader Edwin Poots resigns amid internal party revolt
					

His resignation comes following a meeting of party officers at the DUP headquarters in east Belfast.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## two sheds (Jun 17, 2021)

Did someone in the meeting mention Darwin?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2021)

steveo87 said:


> DUP leader Edwin Poots resigns amid internal party revolt
> 
> 
> His resignation comes following a meeting of party officers at the DUP headquarters in east Belfast.
> ...


This must set or be close to the record for shortest tenure of a UK political leader, surely only rivalled by one of the ukip crowd


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## steveo87 (Jun 17, 2021)

I was thinking that.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2021)

steveo87 said:


> I was thinking that.


Diane james, leader designate of ukip for 18 days before throwing in the towel


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## brogdale (Jun 17, 2021)

A triumph for mince-brains Lewis; so the language deal fails within hours, the shinners refuse to play ball and it'll be back to direct rule again.


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## Sue (Jun 17, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> This must set or be close to the record for shortest tenure of a UK political leader, surely only rivalled by one of the ukip crowd


Whichever nonentity was leading the Change UK lot was only there for about five minutes too. IIRC which I very probably don't 🤷‍♀️.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2021)

Sue said:


> Whichever nonentity was leading the Change UK lot was only there for about five minutes too. IIRC which I very probably don't 🤷‍♀️.


So looks like Poots rolls in a dreary third at best


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## Raheem (Jun 17, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> So looks like Poots rolls in a dreary third at best


That's not all it looks like he rolls in.


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## mx wcfc (Jun 17, 2021)

It is funny, isn't it?!  

I mean it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people!   🤣 

A United Ireland is the best thing that could possibly come out of the shitshow that is Brexit - I just wouldn't wish the DUP on anyone.  

Perhaps Scotland would take them?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2021)

mx wcfc said:


> It is funny, isn't it?!
> 
> I mean it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people!   🤣
> 
> ...


They're going to South Georgia


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## Dystopiary (Jun 17, 2021)

I keep reading the title of this thread as "D*W*P and Tory f*ck up thread" and am about to start ranting about those bastards instead.


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## Sue (Jun 17, 2021)

mx wcfc said:


> Perhaps Scotland would take them?


 



Pickman's model said:


> They're going to South Georgia


This is a better idea. Scotland indeed .


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## marty21 (Jun 17, 2021)

Blimey , an electorate of maybe 40? Can't agree on a leader , maybe they should each take it on  weekly basis.  Or go home & prepare for a United Ireland.


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## tim (Jun 17, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> They're going to South Georgia


Northern South Georgia


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## Sue (Jun 17, 2021)

marty21 said:


> Blimey , an electorate of maybe 40? Can't agree on a leader , maybe they should each take it on  weekly basis.  Or go home & prepare for a United Ireland.


Kinda like the Lib Dems now I come to think of it. 

Well maybe apart from the United Ireland bit but I'm not sure the DUP are super keen on that either tbh.


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## MrSki (Jun 17, 2021)

Surely he lasted longer than the dinosaurs?


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## Argonia (Jun 18, 2021)

Ex-Poots thinks the world is 4000 years old. What does that tell you? And how is he keeping up with the 21st century Scientific Revolution?


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## Raheem (Jun 18, 2021)

I think the people of this country have had enough of so-called ex-Poots.


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## two sheds (Jun 18, 2021)

I thought it was an excellent choice - does show what the DUP are like to have him voted as leader.


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## steveo87 (Jun 18, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I think the people of this country have had enough of so-called ex-Poots.


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## quiet guy (Jun 18, 2021)

Step forward Arlene as the new/old DUP leader.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 2, 2021)

Absolute scum. 

The guns are gone, but misogyny still stalks Northern Ireland | Susan McKay


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