# Right wing trolls get paid by the post



## UnsceneBerlin (Jan 9, 2014)

Has anybody else heard about this phenomenon whereby corporations & government bodies pay people to essentially, troll online forums posting right-wing bollox?  How is it not totally illegal??   Call me naive but I've just found out about this and I'm kind of shocked that I haven't heard anything about it, before.  Either I'm really behind the times, or there's a bit of a coverup in progress?

I'm especially curious if there are any mods about who have anything to say about it, because I seem to recall that U75 had a trolling problem itself quite a few years ago, which seems to have died down (I actually stopped reading this forum for a while because of it).  So I reckon most forum mods must be aware this is going on but I'm just curious, has there been any sort of outcry against these 'Troll Inc.' companies?  Surely, if the government is paying people to surreptitiously  spread right wing propaganda, then that constitutes some sort of conspiracy.  Or am I just really out of touch?  Lol. 

Excerpt from a blog post on this subject:

_In 2011, the Guardian's George Monbiot wrote that he'd been contacted by a whistleblower who said he was, "part of a commercial team employed to infest internet forums and comment threads on behalf of corporate clients, promoting their causes and arguing with anyone who opposed them."  Sound familiar?  It will do, if you've ever participated in an internet forum.  This particular whistleblower told Monbiot that he posed as up to 70 different individuals at a time... which probably helps to explain why different trolls' posts are often nearly identical in tone and content.  Bear in mind that this whistleblower was just one employee, from one company providing 'social media management' services to corporate clients. Doubtless there are many, many more out there.

The practice of paying people to post supportive comments for a specific interest group online is said to have originated in China in 2004, where such posters are known as the '50 cent party'.  As the name suggests, these posters are paid 50 Chinese cents for every pro-government or counter-dissident post that they write.  In 2009, Datamation.com wrote that: "China’s 50 Cent Army is everybody's business.  With 300,000 people, you can see how the CCP could easily determine what makes it onto the front page of Digg, and what gets shouted down. They could use Wikipedia, YouTube and Slashdot as their most powerful tools of global propaganda."

That's true if China is the only country that hires right-wing commentators, but it isn't.  Throw in the U.S.A., Russia, Canada and Israel - to name but a few of the countries whose governments have hired 'online supporters' in recent times - and the potential to skew public perceptions becomes overwhelming.  In 2011 it was revealed that the U.S. military's Central Command, or Centcom, had signed a contract with a company known as NTrepid to 'manage online personas' for its staff.  NTrepid's software would enable every serviceman and woman to create and use up to 10 fake online aliases worldwide.  The Guardian reported that:  'The Centcom contract stipulates that each fake online persona must have a convincing background, history and supporting details, and that up to 50 US-based controllers should be able to operate false identities from their workstations "without fear of being discovered by sophisticated adversaries".'_


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## phildwyer (Jan 9, 2014)

How much do they pay?


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## Vintage Paw (Jan 9, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> How much do they pay?



Why don't you tell us


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 9, 2014)

It's an absolute disgrace. This kind of thing would never have happened under Hitler.


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## fogbat (Jan 9, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> How much do they pay?



Less than I deserve


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## Metal Malcolm (Jan 9, 2014)

UnsceneBerlin said:


> How is it not totally illegal??



Why would it be illegal? It's obviously irritating to say the least, but I don't see what laws are being broken. It's not illegal to lie, or to impersonate someone else for non-fraudulent purposes...


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 9, 2014)

Not implausible. There's plenty of evidence of analogous and related stuff going on in areas like reputation management and at the dodgier end of the cyber-security industry.

Here's a quick taster, more to come when I've got a few things done (just got home from a trip)



> Consumer review websites such as Yelp, TripAdvisor, and Angie's List have become increasingly popular over the past decade, and now exist for nearly any product or service imaginable. Yelp alone contains more than 30 million reviews of restaurants, barbers, mechanics, and other services, and has a market capitalization in excess of four billion dollars. Moreover, there is mounting evidence that these reviews have a direct influence on product sales (see Chevalier and Mayzlin (2006), Luca (2011), Zhu and Zhang (2010)).
> 
> As the popularity of these platforms has grown, so have concerns that the credibility of reviews can be undermined by businesses leaving fake reviews for themselves or for their competitors. There is considerable anecdotal evidence that this type of cheating is endemic in the industry. For example, the New York Times recently reported on the case of businesses hiring workers on Mechanical Turk { an Amazon-owned crowdsourcing marketplace } to post fake 5-star Yelp reviews on their behalf for as little as 25 cents per review.


 http://people.hbs.edu/mluca/FakeItTillYouMakeIt.pdf



> An investigation by the English Wikipedia community into suspicious edits and sockpuppet activity has led to astonishing revelations that Wiki-PR, a multi-million-dollar US-based company, has created, edited, or maintained several thousand Wikipedia articles for paying clients using a sophisticated array of concealed user accounts. They have managed to do so by violating several Wikipedia policies and guidelines, including those concerning conflict of interest in paid advocacy—when an individual accepts money to promote a person, organization, or product on Wikipedia—and sockpuppetry.


 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2013-10-09/News_and_notes



> NPR media reporter David Folkenflik writes in his forthcoming book _Murdoch's World _that Fox News' public relations staffers used an elaborate series of dummy accounts to fill the comments sections of critical blog posts with pro-Fox arguments.


 http://mediamatters.org/mobile/blog...reportedly-used-fake-commenter-account/196509


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## UnsceneBerlin (Jan 9, 2014)

Metal Malcolm said:


> Why would it be illegal? It's obviously irritating to say the least, but I don't see what laws are being broken. It's not illegal to lie, or to impersonate someone else for non-fraudulent purposes...


...even if it's the government doing it?  Ethical questions aside, is that really how taxes should be spent... spreading hatred and nationalism online and not even identifying themselves as the people behind it?   I guess I'm mad but I do see something wrong with that.

And Hitler would have loved this sort of thing, actually.  He was well into astroturfing the propaganda.


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## UnsceneBerlin (Jan 9, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Not implausible. There's plenty of evidence of analogous and related stuff going on in areas like reputation management and at the dodgier end of the cyber-security industry.
> 
> Here's a quick taster, more to come when I've got a few things done (just got home from a trip)
> 
> ...



Cheers, I look forward to reading the rest


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 9, 2014)

> Last night _USA Today_ reported that two of its staffers, Tom Vanden Brook and Ray Locker, were the targets of a smear campaign, including fake Twitter accounts and web sites established in their names, launched by a Pentagon contractor specializing in "information operations." For some reason, the paper declined to name the perpetrator: Leonie Industries.
> 
> According to _USA Today_'s Gregory Korte, fake web sites purporting to be maintained Vanden Brook and Locker emerged several weeks ago as the pair were reporting a story on "the military's 'information operations' program, which [has] been criticized even within the Pentagon as ineffective and poorly monitored." The site TomVandenBrook.com, for instance, was first registered in January just days after Vanden Brook began making inquiries on the story. It prominently mentioned an erroneous story Vanden Brook had written about the 2006 Sago Mine disaster in West Virginia—Vanden Brook, like the Associated Press, Reuters and several other outlets—had mistakenly reported that 12 of 13 trapped miners had survived based in part on inaccurate information provided by the governor. The site for Ray Locker, who shared a byline with Vanden Brook, listed his stories along with prominently featured negative comments calling his reporting into question. (Both links are to Google's cached copies; the sites have been taken down).
> 
> Oddly, the _USA Today_ story on the mischief names only "Pentagon contractors" as likely culprits. But a source familiar with the story confirms that the contractor responsible is Leonie Industries, an information operations company with more than $90 million in Army contracts in Afghanistan. It's doubly odd that _USA Today_ didn't at least seek comment from Leonie on the disinformation, since Leonie was the primary target of the investigation that apparently sparked the sculduggery, and would be the inescapable suspect to anyone who put two and two together.


 http://gawker.com/5903821/meet-the-...tion-campaign-against-two-usa-today-reporters


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## pesh (Jan 9, 2014)

you could have a lot of fun with that, set up a load of usernames, post a load of rightwing bollocks, have a bit of lunch, maybe a smoke, send in the invoice then spend the afternoon flaming yourself from a load of different usernames with annoying little things like facts.


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## catinthehat (Jan 9, 2014)

Not in the least surprising.  PR companies often clean up or bump up images via social media.  There is a wikipedia entry for a college in Scotland where you can see the history of revision after revision - the Principal was under some suspicion (he eventually left to spend more time with his boat) and he employed a PR company to keep changing the entries being made there and other places about the goings on.


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## white rabbit (Jan 9, 2014)

How vigilant are they of the content? You could adopt a pro-corporate persona but be so absurdly batshit that it's self-defeating.


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## J Ed (Jan 9, 2014)

The other day someone told me that someone they know gets paid to post climate denial stuff, though he said that he genuinely believed the stuff he was posting too. I didn't believe it at the time...


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 9, 2014)

UnsceneBerlin said:


> And Hitler would have loved this sort of thing, actually.  He was well into astroturfing the propaganda.



I'm sure he would. If he'd somehow survived the fall of Berlin and discovered the secret of eternal life. Wait a minute...nah, surely not...


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 9, 2014)

Lots of sites present comments in chronological order, this means that if you get in first your comment will be at the top of the pile and will be the one people are most likely to read. These paid trolls will spend all day lurking on a particular site waiting for a story to break so they can get that all-important first comment.

This is why I don't read comment threads on news articles.


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## Metal Malcolm (Jan 9, 2014)

UnsceneBerlin said:


> ...even if it's the government doing it?  Ethical questions aside, is that really how taxes should be spent... spreading hatred and nationalism online and not even identifying themselves as the people behind it?   I guess I'm mad but I do see something wrong with that.
> 
> And Hitler would have loved this sort of thing, actually.  He was well into astroturfing the propaganda.



Nah, you miss my point. I completely agree that it's unethical, something i'm appalled (but not surprised) to see governments doing, and a disgusting approach to dealing with any online debate that i'm horrified to see exists.

But I can't see how it's illegal. Perhaps it SHOULD be, but it isn't.


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## treelover (Jan 10, 2014)

Sounds unlikely here in the U.K, the U.S maybe...


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## gosub (Jan 10, 2014)

treelover said:


> Sounds unlikely here in the U.K, the U.S maybe...


Seeps across the Atlantic though, remember reading an article about how nuts the US gun lobby was being, in the telegraph. I posted my belief in bullet rationing was a way round the bear arms amendment and it was like kicking a hornets nest.
Was 1am Gmt,  yet had 30 posters in 5mins telling me bullets were fire arms and not at all happy when I pointed to all the firearms legislation where it was separately mentioned.  Odd way to spend an evening commenting on tomorrow's press in another country.


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## Edward Kelly (Jan 10, 2014)

TBH I'd be more surprised if companies DIDN'T spam forums and ytube etc. They want their name known and this is a good & inexpensive way to do it. 
You have heard of Gov. propaganda?


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## Edward Kelly (Jan 10, 2014)

gosub said:


> Seeps across the Atlantic though, remember reading an article about how nuts the US gun lobby was being, in the telegraph. I posted my belief in bullet rationing was a way round the bear arms amendment and it was like kicking a hornets nest.


Exactly, the lobby's of all kinds are quite affective (effective?) and persuasive in the US.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 10, 2014)

Astroturfing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jan 10, 2014)

And then we have... the click farm:



> Since Facebook launched almost 10 years ago, users have sought to expand their social networks for financial gain, winning friends, bragging rights and professional clout. And social media companies cite the levels of engagement to tout their value.
> 
> But an Associated Press examination has found a growing global marketplace for fake clicks, which tech companies struggle to police. Online records, industry studies and interviews show companies are capitalizing on the opportunity to make millions of dollars by duping social media.
> 
> ...



http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/insi...on-social-media-spells-big-business-1.1618538

Imagine that: selling fake Facebook likes is a $200 million per year business.


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## tony.c (Jan 10, 2014)

There was recently a story about the Israeli Government paying right wing Zionist students to troll on the Internet and twitter.


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## quiquaquo (Jan 10, 2014)

Hasbara has been doing this shit for years. Don't know if money is paid but other benefits such as scholarships to universities in Israel are offered openly.

Old article on the issue: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 10, 2014)

Google are in on it. 



> Google has apologised after a Berlin intersection accidentally regained its Nazi-era name, Adolf-Hitler-Platz, on the Google Maps service.



http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/10/google-apologises-hitler-platz-berlin


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## ska invita (Jan 11, 2014)

treelover said:


> Sounds unlikely here in the U.K, the U.S maybe...


why do u say that? sounds very likely in the uk too


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## killer b (Jan 11, 2014)

they don't need to pay, there's enough wankers who'll do it for free. why bother?


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## ska invita (Jan 11, 2014)

killer b said:


> they don't need to pay, there's enough wankers who'll do it for free. why bother?


 true!
yeah but its not about that, theres plenty in the US too...
i dont trust it
english language newspaper sites arent bound by national borders


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## Corax (Jan 11, 2014)

J Ed said:


> The other day someone told me that someone they know gets paid to post climate denial stuff, though he said that he genuinely believed the stuff he was posting too. I didn't believe it at the time...


No one ever knows anyone _directly_.  It's weird that.


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## Gerry1time (Jan 11, 2014)

I know some stories about this sort of thing directly from a few different things people have asked me or places I've worked to do online, and in one instance, where IP addresses of odd comments resolved back to. Can't really share them though. But in essence, it definitely happens in this country too.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 11, 2014)

I read this whilst on the way to mcdonalds. I fancied one of their breakfast items. The sausage and egg my muffin. If it is true, why can't they post any links.


Tits or gtfo


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## Doctor Carrot (Jan 11, 2014)

Where do I sign up for such a job?


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## Gerry1time (Jan 11, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Where do I sign up for such a job?



Drop a line to a few PR agencies and see what they come back with. Not Internet related I know, but one asked me to go on live radio pretending to be a happy customer of a place I'd never even heard of.

In fact, the more I think about it, this sort of thing could possibly be well exposed by people putting the same amount of time an effort into going undercover at PR agencies and online reputation management consultancies as they do in trolling forums for shits and giggles.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 11, 2014)

It's just an extension of the principles of Mockingbird

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird


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## pogofish (Jan 11, 2014)

Gerry1time said:


> I know some stories about this sort of thing directly from a few different things people have asked me or places I've worked to do online, and in one instance, where IP addresses of odd comments resolved back to. Can't really share them though. But in essence, it definitely happens in this country too.



Yup - I've seen this in connection with three contentious local issues - It was remarkable how the vast majority of vocal proponents of the schemes in each case resolved back to the same three company IPs. They also tended to express right wing leanings to greater or lesser degrees.


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## Gerry1time (Jan 11, 2014)

pogofish said:


> Yup - I've seen this in connection with three contentious local issues - It was remarkable how the vast majority of vocal proponents of the schemes in each case resolved back to the same three company IPs.



It was hilarious watching the 'live chat' in Bristol's local paper a few years back when they were video streaming the council deciding about whether to allow a new football ground to be built. I suspect the only people in there were from a local PR agency who had been tasked with astroturfing the discussion in support of the proposal, making it all sound a bit like North Korea. Wish I could have accessed their IP data.


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## pogofish (Jan 11, 2014)

Gerry1time said:


> Wish I could have accessed their IP data.



Yup - That's the same problem we had.  

Whilst we could get at info from from three boards either connected to the scheme or where significant independent discussion was taking place (one was even raided/shut down for a while thanks to these cunts), the local media were almost entirely bunkered in the pockets of the various proponents and quite unwilling to look at their own sites, allow any outside access or take any interest in these activities whatsoever.

Even the police admitted there was a clear case for action when shown the data from just one site but unsurprisingly, that was the last we heard of it!


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 11, 2014)

pogofish said:


> Yup - I've seen this in connection with three contentious local issues - It was remarkable how the vast majority of vocal proponents of the schemes in each case resolved back to the same three company IPs. They also tended to express right wing leanings to greater or lesser degrees.



Would one of these contentious local issues have had anything to do with an American chap with a really dodgy hair-do and more arrogance than sense?


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## pogofish (Jan 11, 2014)

That was the first of them yes but there have been two others using similar tactics - Interestingly, they are also connected in other ways but I'd better keep stumm for now.


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## Dogsauce (Jan 12, 2014)

The political parties often mobilise the faithful to swamp forums when certain topics are discussed - particularly noticeable on things like the BBC have you say pages. Often you'll see the same phrases posted by allegedly different people, like a 'talking points' memo has been circulated. Most evident after things like the budget have happened and there is a need to battle for a positive message. Whether there are people paid to perform this role (as individuals or just as part of their job at party HQ) isn't clear, but it really wouldn't surprise me.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the Arab spring stuff that was fuelled in part by social media will turn out to be messages posted from multiple IDs operated from a warehouse in Kansas or something like that. A cheap way to foment revolution in the countries of opponents without placing your own lives at risk or running up a large bill for shiny planes and bombs. If they're not doing stuff like this to spread US hegemony then they're idiots.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 18, 2014)

It's perfectly legitimate though for campaign groups and political parties to mobilise their members and staff to put their point of view across at every opportunity, that's no different to say loads of anarchists and lefties posting here or on Indymedia etc quite frankly.

Paying people to post stuff in support of corporations and stuff is also not that morally different, it's a fairly minor symptom


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## manny-p (Jan 24, 2014)

Are Ken Loach and Owen Jones recruiting for some left wing trolls? I could do with some quick cash asap.


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## T & P (Jan 24, 2014)

I always thought that long-banned poster called something like richaim18, who was a rather enthusiastic supporter of the Israeli government and armed forces (and more than a bit of a critic of Palestinians and Arabs), was highly suspect.

He would at times be absent from the forums for a few days, and then reappear and post within a few minutes eight or ten replies to posts regarding Israel, each consisting of many hundreds if not thousands of words. I don't know whether he was working alone or not, but clearly he was spending many hours at a time offline carefully preparing a myriad of replies to anything posted here that showed the Israeli government in a bad light.


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## el-ahrairah (Jan 24, 2014)

killer b said:


> they don't need to pay, there's enough wankers who'll do it for free. why bother?


 
maybe it only seems like that and the people are actually less right-wing than being on the internet makes it seem.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 24, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> maybe it only seems like that and the people are actually less right-wing than being on the internet makes it seem.




I'm convinced that comment threads on newspapers are like 5 live ranters- the outlet for views that you can't air in the pub cos you'd risk a chinning


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> I always thought that long-banned poster called something like richaim18, who was a rather enthusiastic supporter of the Israeli government and armed forces (and more than a bit of a critic of Palestinians and Arabs), was highly suspect.
> 
> He would at times be absent from the forums for a few days, and then reappear and post within a few minutes eight or ten replies to posts regarding Israel, each consisting of many hundreds if not thousands of words. I don't know whether he was working alone or not, but clearly he was spending many hours at a time offline carefully preparing a myriad of replies to anything posted here that showed the Israeli government in a bad light.



Oh, rachamim was almost certainly a _hasbara_ merchant. He was also nuts.  The bloke reckoned that if any of his children betrayed Zionism, he'd kill them. He wasn't joking.


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## nino_savatte (Jan 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> I always thought that long-banned poster called something like richaim18, who was a rather enthusiastic supporter of the Israeli government and armed forces (and more than a bit of a critic of Palestinians and Arabs), was highly suspect.
> 
> He would at times be absent from the forums for a few days, and then reappear and post within a few minutes eight or ten replies to posts regarding Israel, each consisting of many hundreds if not thousands of words. I don't know whether he was working alone or not, but clearly he was spending many hours at a time offline carefully preparing a myriad of replies to anything posted here that showed the Israeli government in a bad light.


R18 is still out there churning out propaganda on blogs like this one.
http://livewire.amnesty.org/2013/01...eview-human-rights-and-israel-whats-at-stake/

Here's another
http://rhr.org.il/eng/2013/04/condo...f-the-murder-victim-today-at-tapuah-junction/


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## nino_savatte (Jan 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Oh, rachamim was almost certainly a _hasbara_ merchant. He was also nuts.  The bloke reckoned that if any of his children betrayed Zionism, he'd kill them. He wasn't joking.


He seemed to like spending time in the Phillipines too.


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## T & P (Jan 25, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> R18 is still out there churning out propaganda on blogs like this one.
> http://livewire.amnesty.org/2013/01...eview-human-rights-and-israel-whats-at-stake/
> 
> Here's another
> http://rhr.org.il/eng/2013/04/condo...f-the-murder-victim-today-at-tapuah-junction/


Fuck, that's one disturbed bloke.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 25, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> He seemed to like spending time in the Phillipines too.



His current (as of a few years ago) wife is Hmong Chinese, and the pair of them supposedly co-own a lumber lot in the Philippines.  Probably incidental that smack is easily available.


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## nino_savatte (Jan 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> His current (as of a few years ago) wife is Hmong Chinese, and the pair of them supposedly co-own a lumber lot in the Philippines.  Probably incidental that smack is easily available.


My thoughts exactly. Their lumber lot probably consists of a couple of planks.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

I used to be a troll, but not here, or in fact any political site.  
I was paid to join in with fabricated fake dramas on a commercial US forum, in order to bring mass attention to a sponsor.  I can also remember trolls being paid per post, I think it was 10c per post.  But in those days there was a lot of competition for attention and amongst the forum wars people were paid to post...  directed by people on ICQ to drive the conversation in their preferred direction. 

If it happened for commercial gain, at the height of affiliate internet marketing, then it could surely happen for political gain.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2014)

There are certainly fake commenters around - we get lots of them on Urban for commercial purposes, and PR companies do it all the time. My stepmother had a blog opposing the plans of $large_supermarket and, mysteriously, a lot of comments appeared on it supporting $large_supermarket with IPs resolving to PR firms employed by $large_supermarket. Wikipedia editing on an organised basis by PR firms is so routine as to be barely remarkable now.

However these are all on specific topics and limited in scope. The best way for a political movement to get Internet activity in their favour is to convince people that they are right and set up structures to let them reinforce each other autonomously, while still retaining some level of central guidance. The Bush-era Republican Party was excellent at this, but it is now biting them in the arse as the central control part has broken down.


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## phildwyer (Jan 26, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The best way for a political movement to get Internet activity in their favour is to convince people that they are right



It always amazes me that this simple and obvious truth can so utterly elude today's political classes.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> It always amazes me that this simple and obvious truth can so utterly elude today's political classes.


To be fair there is a little more to it than that. In the case of the Republicans for instance, they created a situation that attracted people with the promise that they could be right, have their peers tell them they were right, have famous people on the TV tell them they were right, have the government tell them they were right, and also _be winning_. That's pretty seductive, a world where you just have to follow a certain logic that you probably don't care much about anyway to be right about everything, but takes a lot of effort to set up and maintain.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

10 cents per post for trolls who post general stuff with a sponsor signature under each post, to the maximum sizes allowed by each forum.

I would get paid $50 via Epassporte to cause a spectacle on a single multiple page thread.  Online arguments/disputes would draw more page impressions than anything else.  At the end of it people would have the intended brand firmly lodged in their minds.  Fake dramas were cheaper than banner advertising and spilled over onto many forums.  I guess most people assumed they were real and the sponsor in question always ended up looking good.


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## Buckaroo (Jan 26, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> 10 cents per post for trolls who post general stuff with a sponsor signature under each post, to the maximum sizes allowed by each forum.
> 
> I would get paid $50 via Epassporte to cause a spectacle on a single multiple page thread.  Online arguments/disputes would draw more page impressions than anything else.  At the end of it people would have the intended brand firmly lodged in their minds.  Fake dramas were cheaper than banner advertising and spilled over onto many forums.  I guess most people assumed they were real and the sponsor in question always ended up looking good.



Eleven years, twenty likes and you're blathering on about advertising and page impressions. Kill yourself. Fuck off. Cunt.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> Eleven years, twenty likes and you're blathering on about advertising and page impressions. Kill yourself. Fuck off. Cunt.


 You're so aggressive, so quickly.  Listen Buckaroo, eleven years ago I was making money posting on commercial forums, not U75.  But congrats on your 1300 U75 likes... I'm sure you are a very witty and interesting person and that earns you a "well done!" from me.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

Moreover, this forum used to run on vBulletin, which didn't have a "like" function, so considering that most of your posts are very recent, then it figures that you would have a good post/like ratio due to most of your posts being made on the upgraded U75 on XenForo.

And if you are going to wish me death, telling me to fuck off, calling me a cunt.... I would appreciate an explanation as to why you are so angry that I posted something like that?  Is it solely based upon my low "like" count on U75?  Is it for a reason that you can explain without swearing?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm not sure where all this has come from but it is harshing my mellow.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

It seems that one of your members is offended by my post about commercial trolls.  

Perhaps Buckaroo feels that I was bullshitting based upon my 11 years on this forum and my lack of "likes".   There is no commercial material on U75, therefore it would have been stupid for a commercial troll to attempt trolling.   

I was just attempting to contribute, because I'd done the job being discussed.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm not sure where all this has come from but it is harshing my mellow.


If your mellow has been harshed, then I'm sorry.  But as a founding member of U75 you should be used to people being abrasive when I post.


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## Buckaroo (Jan 26, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> Moreover, this forum used to run on vBulletin, which didn't have a "like" function, so considering that most of your posts are very recent, then it figures that you would have a good post/like ratio due to most of your posts being made on the upgraded U75 on XenForo.
> 
> And if you are going to wish me death, telling me to fuck off, calling me a cunt.... I would appreciate an explanation as to why you are so angry that I posted something like that?  Is it solely based upon my low "like" count on U75?  Is it for a reason that you can explain without swearing?



Apologies, I don't wish you death and I'm not so angry you posted whatever you did and made money out of it but, and this isn't based on your low "like" count, you're still a cunt. Listen Obwhatever.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

Why am I a cunt, precisely?


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

How can adjust the behaviour you dislike, if you are not giving me precise feedback?


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## Buckaroo (Jan 26, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> Why am I a cunt, precisely?



You're not a cunt. You're great. Relax, we love you ffs. Seriously.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

Because I really don't want you to think that I'm a cunt. 

Love you too. xxxx


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## Buckaroo (Jan 26, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> Because I really don't want you to think that I'm a cunt.
> 
> Love you too. xxxx



x


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 26, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> It seems that one of your members is offended by my post about commercial trolls.
> 
> Perhaps Buckaroo feels that I was bullshitting based upon my 11 years on this forum and my lack of "likes".   There is no commercial material on U75, therefore it would have been stupid for a commercial troll to attempt trolling.
> 
> I was just attempting to contribute, because I'd done the job being discussed.



TBF, you admitted working for "the man", and even worse, in an *advertising* capacity.
That's "red rag to a bull" stuff for some Urbanites.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 26, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> <snip> The best way for a political movement to get Internet activity in their favour is to convince people that they are right and set up structures to let them reinforce each other autonomously, while still retaining some level of central guidance. The Bush-era Republican Party was excellent at this, but it is *now biting them in the arse as the central control part has broken down*.



That's a very interesting and probably correct statement.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 26, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> x



Get a room, you pair of perverts!!!


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## StoneRoad (Jan 26, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> It's perfectly legitimate though for campaign groups and political parties to mobilise their members and staff to put their point of view across at every opportunity, that's no different to say loads of anarchists and lefties posting here or on Indymedia etc quite frankly.
> 
> Paying people to post stuff in support of corporations and stuff is also not that morally different, it's a fairly minor symptom


 
The cuntryside alliance were past masters at this, they had something like a "grassroots" network that would try to swamp polls and comments / discussions to make it appear that there was massive support for their point of view.


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## weltweit (Jan 26, 2014)

I thought I already posted to this thread.

A very high proportion of the book reviews on amazon are or were I believe penned by the authors in question. IIRC there was a reveal / software error which revealed this to the world. Very embarrassing.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> That's a very interesting and probably correct statement.


When I was living in the US (2002-2004) I was pretty bored and spent a lot of my time analysing the weird political shit that I saw all around me, which was the Republican machine in its heyday. (That was just before Bush's second term ftr.) I was impressed by how they'd constructed an efficient system that was self-powering at a grass roots level - because that's always much better, you can capitalise on the inventiveness of people who know their audience and may be smarter than your strategists anyway - but also followed common themes. It was all about talking points - the White House would come up with something, which would simultaneously be repeated and expanded on by the news media and pundits, and the grass roots groups would pick the approach from the pundit/news source they liked best and elaborate on that on a more local basis. But there would be overall consistency, because that was the part that made sure that everyone promoting the position was backed up by everyone else.

The trouble is that this sort of system intrinsically involves people being creative (to an extent) on their own account, which means that if you don't feed them properly from the top down they're just going to come up with their own stuff. Which is what's happened. The RNC has fragmented, the party has no central message and certainly doesn't have the mechanisms to pass any message down any more, and the system is sparking off in random directions.

Meanwhile, at the same time the Democrats were utterly shit and had nothing like this. People opposed to the Republicans had to set their own stuff up. This is still going - in many cases it's been co-opted, but not all.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 26, 2014)

I think what you get now is partial synergy.

For example some right-wing oil billionaires might pump some resources into climate change disinformation, but that also supports, via the grassroots right-wing networks already established, other agendas, e.g. an anti-rational jeezo-loonspud agenda from fundies who oppose evolution and women learning to read as well as climate science.

So what you get is the information warfare equivalent of a failed state. Chaos with various agendas sparking off each other, sometimes building effective feedbacks, sometimes not.


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## Obnoxiousness (Jan 26, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, you admitted working for "the man", and even worse, in an *advertising* capacity.
> That's "red rag to a bull" stuff for some Urbanites.


So it was because I was involved in a capitalist activity?  

The capitalists I was working for were Democrats, if that makes any difference. 

But what you're saying is that in order to be well thought of here, I need to be a Trotskyist?  Although I did join this forum over 10 years ago, I must admit that it was for my interest in web design and marketing over anything else.  But would it make you feel better about me if I told you that I have a copy of "The Communist Manifesto" and have recently pondered becoming a member of a far left organisation?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I think what you get now is partial synergy.
> 
> For example some right-wing oil billionaires might pump some resources into climate change disinformation, but that also supports, via the grassroots right-wing networks already established, other agendas, e.g. an anti-rational jeezo-loonspud agenda from fundies who oppose evolution and women learning to read as well as climate science.
> 
> So what you get is the information warfare equivalent of a failed state. Chaos with various agendas sparking off each other, sometimes creating effective feedbacks.



Climate change is a good example - that may be the best modern utilisation of the system. CC denialists don't have the white house to use, but they can intervene at the pundit level and also set up a load of "proof" websites to be used by the grass roots to continue their self-belief. It's full of talking points which have obviously been passed down, like the "hockey stick" and the "emails".

it's not intrinsically part of an overall worldview though, which is what's missing from the Rove era.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 26, 2014)

Well, I think it sort of informs and reinforces a right-wing populist world-view ...

Take the stuff Crosby Textor have been doing in the UK and the antipodes.

They push out dog-whistle stories about asylum seekers eating swans or whatever, then pick up the resonance of those stories via polling, which tells them to push out more racist PR shit, which shows up in their polling and etc. 

Classic positive feedback loop inflaming racist attitudes serviceable to the status quo. 

... but as your US example shows, this sort of stuff can run out of control.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 27, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> So it was because I was involved in a capitalist activity?
> 
> The capitalists I was working for were Democrats, if that makes any difference.



Ah, the Democrats, who like the Republicans, pretty much do politics that don't accord with their party name!

Very much like our own political parties in the UK. 



> But what you're saying is that in order to be well thought of here, I need to be a Trotskyist?  Although I did join this forum over 10 years ago, I must admit that it was for my interest in web design and marketing over anything else.  But would it make you feel better about me if I told you that I have a copy of "The Communist Manifesto" and have recently pondered becoming a member of a far left organisation?



Hmmm, you seem to have misapprehended me. *I* don't have a problem with you.  I was explaining why others might.
Of course, if you're stupid enough to join a "far left organisation", that would change.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 27, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Well, I think it sort of informs and reinforces a right-wing populist world-view ...
> 
> Take the stuff Crosby Textor have been doing in the UK and the antipodes.
> 
> ...



Like the Cronulla riots in Aus, which were pretty much the result of biased reporting top-and-tailed by the sort of shit that Crosby uses.


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## Fuchs66 (Jan 27, 2014)

http://www.sptimes.ru/story/38052

Looks as though the Russians are at it too, I have my suspects around these parts!


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2014)

no chance of lefty posters getting a fee per post? i could do with some extra dosh.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 27, 2014)

white rabbit said:


> How vigilant are they of the content? You could adopt a pro-corporate persona but be so absurdly batshit that it's self-defeating.



One trolling technique is to use a sock puppet account to post a deliberately trite, offensive or illogical argument for the side of a debate opposing the one you're actually getting paid to promote. You then use another account to take apart the sock puppet's deliberately crappy arguments.


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## phildwyer (Jan 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> no chance of lefty posters getting a fee per post? i could do with some extra dosh.



I'll pay you a quid for every week you keep silent.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> I'll pay you a quid for every week you keep silent.


you cheap cunt.


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## phildwyer (Jan 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> you cheap cunt.



A fiver then.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> A fiver then.


£500 maybe.


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## phildwyer (Jan 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> £500 maybe.



Done.  When can you start?


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> Done.  When can you start?


as soon as the first weekly cheque clears.


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## phildwyer (Jan 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> as soon as the first weekly cheque clears.



Yeah right.  COD only.  Shall we say from 7pm on?


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> Yeah right.  COD only.  Shall we say from 7pm on?


let's see the colour of your money.

e2a: i don't believe you've £26,000 p.a. to spare just to stop me posting. so unless and until you can provide some _bona fides_ it's business as usual.


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## Buckaroo (Jan 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> as soon as the first weekly cheque clears.



and you can keep posting as he said 'keep silent'. Quids in


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> and you can keep posting as he said 'keep silent'. Quids in


a profitable career in the law lies ahead of you


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## phildwyer (Jan 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> let's see the colour of your money.



With all due respect, nobody would trust a tramp like you with 50p for a pint of milk.

You'll get paid when you've performed your duties.  Not before.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> With all due respect, nobody would trust a tramp like you with 50p for a pint of milk.
> 
> You'll get paid when you've performed your duties.  Not before.


there were three years when i didn't post here at all and i never received a penny from you. so you'll excuse my scepticism that you'll cough up now.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 19, 2014)

Getting back on track, the following news item struck me as odd in the extreme. I find it hard to believe that these 2 numpties would have such extreme views on feminism that they would be motivated enough to open 70 twitter accounts from which to launch a vile hate campaign.

*Isabella Sorley and John Nimmo jailed for abusing feminist campaigner Caroline Criado-Perez*
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-campaigner-caroline-criadoperez-9083829.html



The judge should have investigated whether they were paid to do it.


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## treelover (Feb 20, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Google are in on it.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/10/google-apologises-hitler-platz-berlin



Apparently, there is still a 'Stalin Avenue' in Chatham Kent


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## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2014)

treelover said:


> Apparently, there is still a 'Stalin Avenue' in Chatham Kent


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2014)

we used to live in Kremlin Drive! its still there next to moscow drive!


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## treelover (Feb 20, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> So it was because I was involved in a capitalist activity?
> 
> The capitalists I was working for were Democrats, if that makes any difference.
> 
> ...


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## Obnoxiousness (Feb 20, 2014)

Which one?  
Still pondering about that, because my beliefs don't quite fit the organisations I've looked at, so far.


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## Mustn't grumble (Feb 20, 2014)

Anudder Oik said:


> Getting back on track, the following news item struck me as odd in the extreme. I find it hard to believe that these 2 numpties would have such extreme views on feminism that they would be motivated enough to open 70 twitter accounts from which to launch a vile hate campaign.
> 
> *Isabella Sorley and John Nimmo jailed for abusing feminist campaigner Caroline Criado-Perez*
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-campaigner-caroline-criadoperez-9083829.html
> ...


by the looks of them they must share a pretty normal, healthy sex life.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 21, 2014)

plymouth racist in court again denying racist beliefs: 
'O’Neill, said that he was suffering from an illness. The court heard he had a hospital appointment next month.'


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 27, 2014)

Is there any more evidence for this thread?


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2014)

Mustn't grumble said:


> by the looks of them they must share a pretty normal, healthy sex life.


What does that mean?


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2014)

Anudder Oik said:


> Getting back on track, the following news item struck me as odd in the extreme. I find it hard to believe that these 2 numpties would have such extreme views on feminism that they would be motivated enough to open 70 twitter accounts from which to launch a vile hate campaign.
> 
> *Isabella Sorley and John Nimmo jailed for abusing feminist campaigner Caroline Criado-Perez*
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-campaigner-caroline-criadoperez-9083829.html
> ...


Where are you getting the 70 twitter accounts from?


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## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2014)

From the article:



> On 7 January, Mr Nimmo and Ms Sorley pleaded guilty to sending the tweets, admitting they were among the users of 86 separate Twitter accounts from which Ms Criado-Perez  had received abusive messages.


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## phildwyer (Feb 27, 2014)

Corax said:


> What does that mean?



It means that they're obvious nutters:

"The court heard that university-educated Ms Sorley has 25 previous convictions, the majority for being drunk and disorderly.  While on bail for this case, she also committed two offences of assaulting a police officer and is awaiting sentence for an assault on New Year's Day, the court heard..... Paul Kennedy, representing Mr Nimmo who is unemployed, described him as a "somewhat sad individual" who is "effectively a social recluse".

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-campaigner-caroline-criadoperez-9083829.html

No surprises there then.


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## phildwyer (Feb 27, 2014)

Anudder Oik said:


> I find it hard to believe that these 2 numpties would have such extreme views on feminism that they would be motivated enough to open 70 twitter accounts from which to launch a vile hate campaign.



I don't find it odd at all.  Feminism has always brought the loonies out of the woodwork.  The only thing that surprises me is that one of them's a woman.


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## Corax (Feb 27, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> From the article:


Sloppy writing maybe, but I read that as saying that she received abusive messages from 86 accounts, these two amongst them, not that they were all operated by this pair. Ie there's another 84 arseholes out there that weren't prosecuted, presumably because this two were the worst.


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## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2014)

Yeah, i misread that quote.


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## SpookyFrank (May 18, 2014)

Snowden's leaks reveal that the government has its own paid trolls on social media:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

e3a: conspiraloon link replaced with original source.


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## JTG (May 18, 2014)

Gerry1time said:


> It was hilarious watching the 'live chat' in Bristol's local paper a few years back when they were video streaming the council deciding about whether to allow a new football ground to be built. I suspect the only people in there were from a local PR agency who had been tasked with astroturfing the discussion in support of the proposal, making it all sound a bit like North Korea. Wish I could have accessed their IP data.


You think it's impossible that fans of whichever Bristol club's proposal it was aren't capable of watching the stream and commenting off their own backs? Really?


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## Gerry1time (May 18, 2014)

JTG said:


> You think it's impossible that fans of whichever Bristol club's proposal it was aren't capable of watching the stream and commenting off their own backs? Really?



I think you may be replying to something I wrote a while ago now, but of course it's not impossible. However, I know in this case it wasn't spontaneous grass roots people commenting.


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## JTG (May 18, 2014)

Gerry1time said:


> I think you may be replying to something I wrote a while ago now, but of course it's not impossible. However, I know in this case it wasn't spontaneous grass roots people commenting.


How?


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## Gerry1time (May 18, 2014)

Work related insider knowledge.


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## JTG (May 18, 2014)

Oh, OK


----------

