# The grand tory 'civil war' thread



## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Warm the cockles of your ideological heart and post up all the fun & games from the internecine conflict.
I suppose we can all look forward to Smith's commons resignation speech, if only for the look on the front-bench faces!


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Looks like the right hand does not know what the right is doing...





> Stephen Crabb, the new Work and Pensions Secretary, spoke to Radio Pembrokeshire this morning.
> 
> In a short clip he said......we're still running a deficit that's too large for our nation but we are clear those cuts to personal independence payments, we wont be taking those forward."


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## Sprocket. (Mar 20, 2016)

Would it have been appropriate to start this thread at 16:42?


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> Would it have been appropriate to start this thread at 16:42?


Just one fucking thing after another, innit?


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## andysays (Mar 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Just one fucking thing after another, innit?



bit of a cavalier response...


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## Pickman's model (Mar 20, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> Would it have been appropriate to start this thread at 16:42?


being as it's been going on hotter and colder since the 1980s, no.


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## Santino (Mar 20, 2016)

It's like Game of Thrones, but with cunts instead of thrones.

 And also cunts instead of a game.


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## Flanflinger (Mar 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Just one fucking thing after another, innit?



That should be Camerons response.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Flanflinger said:


> That should be Camerons response.


He will soon enough be history himself.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 20, 2016)

Santino said:


> It's like Game of Thrones, but with cunts instead of thrones.
> 
> And also cunts instead of a game.


simon danczuk has had to join the Shites Watch after his indiscretions etc

cba to think of any tory based ones


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## Pickman's model (Mar 20, 2016)

Santino said:


> It's like Game of Thrones, but with cunts instead of thrones.
> 
> And also cunts instead of a game.


but the same number of tits


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Santino said:


> It's like Game of Thrones, but with cunts instead of thrones.
> 
> And also cunts instead of a game.


That makes it 'cunt of cunts', then? Might be a useful thread title for the leadership campaign, tbh.


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## Buckaroo (Mar 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> He will soon enough be history himself.



Nah, brexit fail and he gets a third term.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> Nah, brexit fail and he gets a third term.


Huge assumption.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 20, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> Nah, brexit fail and he gets a third term.


he's off at the end of this term, he's said so, and the hungry dogs behind him will hold him to that


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

One part of Smith's performance today...worth dwelling on these words...just hugely damaging.



> _“It looks like we see benefits as a pot of money to cut because they don’t vote for us.”_


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## Pickman's model (Mar 20, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> he's off at the end of this term, he's said so, and the hungry dogs behind him will hold him to that


in the same way that thatcher said she'd resign at a time of her choosing


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## Buckaroo (Mar 20, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> he's off at the end of this term, he's said so, and the hungry dogs behind him will hold him to that



He's a liar and the dangerous dogs act will see to the "bastards". If he wins the referendum, what happens?


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

U75's favourite libertarianloon joins the fray...



> Baroness Altmann’s short time in Government has not been a happy one. Last July she had to deny that she was prejudging a Government consultation on pension tax relief, after attacking ideas floated by the Treasury. In September it emerged that she was a member of the Labour Party – an unusual position for a Conservative minister. For some months, Downing Street has reportedly been uncomfortable about her speaking publicly.But last night she eclipsed these rumbling issues with a jaw-dropping public statement about Iain Duncan Smith, her now former boss.


Ros Altmann should be sacked | Conservative Home


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## Brixton Hatter (Mar 20, 2016)

I thought Altmann's statement had the whiff of No.10/CCHQ about: part of a rearguard action to try to knife IDS and shore up the Government's (PM & Chancellor's) position. She's not been told off by No.10, so I assume they were more than happy for her to make that statement.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I thought Altmann's statement had the whiff of No.10/CCHQ about: part of a rearguard action to try to knife IDS and shore up the Government's (PM & Chancellor's) position. She's not been told off by No.10, so I assume they were more than happy for her to make that statement.


Agreed; a useful (expendable) idiot.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

tory wars; love it.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

The image was at the top of the latest piece on 'ConservativeHome' by editor Paul Goodman...


> _Imagine for a moment that you are a Conservative MP in a marginal constituency.  What would you think while staring drop-jawed, over the last few days, at open civil war within the Government?  A resigning Iain Duncan Smith launches a hellfire missile at George Osborne.  One of the Chancellor’s allies, Ros Altmann, takes a popgun shot back.  Three fellow Ministers in the same department – Priti Patel, Justin Tomlinson and Shailesh Vara – turn their guns on her in return.  Tory Parliamentarians pour onto Twitter to take sides and open fire.  I can’t speak for you but I know what I would say – to my Association Chairman, to the Whips, to my spouse (or whatever), to whoever was willing to listen.  Pardon my language, but it would be: “All this risks losing me my seat.  Why can’t they all shut the f**k up?”_


In which he calls for Gove to be made deputy PM.
Strange days.


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## stavros (Mar 20, 2016)

It's all a bit reminiscent of The Thick of It, and no doubt Tucker's Law will come into play for either or both sides.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Looks like 'Fatty' has finished off the case this evening...


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## teqniq (Mar 20, 2016)

*registers interest*

The Tory government is descending into civil war. Here's the proof


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## J Ed (Mar 20, 2016)

I wish it was a literal civil war with actual shooting


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## stavros (Mar 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Looks like 'Fatty' has finished off the case this evening...




"Consevative"? Intentional?


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## 8115 (Mar 20, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I wish it was a literal civil war with actual shooting


With actual knives in actual backs. I was literally just thinking that earlier.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

stavros said:


> "Consevative"? Intentional?


Nah, I expect he's just a little 'Rowley Birkin' this pm.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Ha fucking ha, ha....



This gets better.


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Hugely desperate ploy from hamhead...


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## Schmetterling (Mar 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Ha fucking ha, ha....
> 
> 
> 
> This gets better.


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## ska invita (Mar 20, 2016)

Id like to think any of this made the slightest bit of difference but I can't bring myself to even pretend it does.


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## J Ed (Mar 20, 2016)

Wow, there really really is no honour amongst scum


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## Sue (Mar 20, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Id like to think any of this made the slightest bit of difference but I can't bring myself to even pretend it does.



It doesn't really make any difference but fun to watch anyway.


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## ska invita (Mar 20, 2016)

Sue said:


> It doesn't really make any difference but fun to watch anyway.



yeah but i hate seeing the press pretending to give a shit whilst actually shit stirring for sales too


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Sue said:


> It doesn't really make any difference but fun to watch anyway.


I think what we're witnessing here does have the potential to make significant difference to a number of matters.


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## Sprocket. (Mar 20, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I wish it was a literal civil war with actual shooting



With swords, flintlocks and pikes.
You know how much they value tradition!


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## brogdale (Mar 20, 2016)

Carrying a pistol, hopefully.


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## Fez909 (Mar 21, 2016)

The Mirror's headline here is ridiculous 

Need some ice for that? 11 sick Tory on Tory burns from the IDS civil war


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## albionism (Mar 21, 2016)




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## teqniq (Mar 21, 2016)

What joy to wake up to this morning

Iain Duncan Smith's resignation has left the Tory leadership facing open revolt


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## Roadkill (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Hugely desperate ploy from hamhead...




Blimey.  If Cameron is briefing against Osborne like this the shit really is hitting the fan.  I thought the wheels would come off Cameron's government at some point, but didn't for one minute think it would happen quite so quickly or quite so dramatically.  

From today's Torygraph:


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## brogdale (Mar 21, 2016)

Keep it up chaps!


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## newbie (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> I think what we're witnessing here does have the potential to make significant difference to a number of matters.


spot on.  the potential may not be realised, of course, and also, down the line may not be so welcome. We know more about IDS now than last time he was leader, does anyone really want his wing of the tory party in the ascendancy? 

But unless they remember sooner rather than later that tearing chunks off their enemies sustains their opponents, for the time being it's enjoyable to watch.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 21, 2016)

Roadkill said:


> Blimey. If Cameron is briefing against Osborne like this the shit really is hitting the fan. I thought the wheels would come off Cameron's government at some point, but didn't for one minute think it would happen quite so quickly or quite so dramatically.


its great isn't it, the whole debacle is moving at the speed of twitter as the pair of cunts in 10&11 start to look weak.


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## youngian (Mar 21, 2016)

Osborne will ride this one out as the budget is not controversial with great swathes of voters who have no idea what capital gains tax is and think disability claimants are skivers zipping down the offy in their mobility scooters. And even Tory voters perceive Duncan-Smith to be a weaselly little turd.


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 21, 2016)

Be interesting to see how much muscle Corbyn flexes at PMQs on Weds.

My fear is he'll continue with his points of view style letters to Corb, but it has all the makings of a John Major style crumbling when Blair precision hit his weak leadership at every opportunity.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 21, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Be interesting to see how much muscle Corbyn flexes at PMQs on Weds.
> 
> My fear is he'll continue with his points of view style letters to Corb, but it has all the makings of a John Major style crumbling when Blair precision hit his weak leadership at every opportunity.


yeh cos blair was never a weak leader


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## LeslieB (Mar 21, 2016)

IDS said on Marr yesterday he had no further ambitions for leadership.

At the moment it is looking good for BoJo....


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## existentialist (Mar 21, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> IDS said on Marr yesterday he had no further ambitions for leadership.
> 
> At the moment it is looking good for BoJo....


While I wouldn't trust a word that IDS says, I think he's in cloud cuckoo land if he truly thinks there's the remotest prospect of anyone else considering him as a credible leadership candidate.


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 21, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh cos blair was never a weak leader



way to go missing the point there, thumbs.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 21, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> way to go missing the point there, thumbs.


no point to crass comparison - you say major was a weak leader, which i think is bollocks. he was a markedly better, stronger, leader than cameron, winning an election (1992) in the middle of the poll tax debacle with 42% of the vote. the comparison with corbyn's utterly barking: corbyn elected leader _despite _his parliamentary party, major elected leader _by_ his parliamentary party.


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## hash tag (Mar 21, 2016)

I think George was slowly moving away from aspirations of leadership, it now seems like he has blown it. On the downside, it does Boris's claim a power of good.when you get rid of one Tory, as sure as rotten eggs is rotten eggs, there will be another waiting to take their place. Enjoy while it lasts.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 21, 2016)

hash tag said:


> I think George was slowly moving away from aspirations of leadership, it now seems like he has blown it. On the downside, it does Boris's claim a power of good.when you get rid of one Tory, as sure as rotten eggs is rotten eggs, there will be another waiting to take their place. Enjoy while it lasts.


yeh well with luck we'll be able to wave goodbye to boris after the referendum.


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## LeslieB (Mar 21, 2016)

If not Boris, IDS or George then who?


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## J Ed (Mar 21, 2016)

this is running and running, amazing


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 21, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> If not Boris, IDS or George then who?



Gove fancies it - and i would say Theresa May is one of the most likely to succeed. Cant see boris winning it - too many enemies.


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Keep it up chaps!





He had the brain to realize that kicking the disabled (who probably won't vote Tory) at the same time as giving middle income tax cuts (who might vote Tory), looks really shitty, and resigned ahead of the Last Leg, who probably should be getting slightly more credit for calling all this shit out.


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## Roadkill (Mar 21, 2016)

youngian said:


> Osborne will ride this one out as the budget is not controversial with great swathes of voters who have no idea what capital gains tax is and think disability claimants are skivers zipping down the offy in their mobility scooters. And even Tory voters perceive Duncan-Smith to be a weaselly little turd.



Osborne will ride it out so long as he retains Cameron's confidence.  If he doesn't he's toast.  Right now his future as Chancellor depends on how much credence we can give to reports of a rift between them - and to Cameron's statement that he 'absolutely' has confidence in him.  In the longer run this certainly knocks a hole in his aspiration to succeed Cameron as leader, although whether it's a big enough hole to sink him completely is another matter.


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## J Ed (Mar 21, 2016)

Roadkill said:


> Osborne will ride it out so long as he retains Cameron's confidence.  If he doesn't he's toast.  Right now his future as Chancellor depends on how much credence we can give to reports of a rift between them - and to Cameron's statement that he 'absolutely' has confidence in him.  In the longer run this certainly knocks a hole in his aspiration to succeed Cameron as leader, although whether it's a big enough hole to sink him completely is another matter.



I doubt that this will be anything like the end of the government but the austerity narrative has never looked as weak as it has now and that really is the ultimate underpinning and only moral justification of the government's behaviour since 2010.


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

Roadkill said:


> Osborne will ride it out so long as he retains Cameron's confidence.  If he doesn't he's toast.  Right now his future as Chancellor depends on how much credence we can give to reports of a rift between them - and to Cameron's statement that he 'absolutely' has confidence in him.  In the longer run this certainly knocks a hole in his aspiration to succeed Cameron as leader, although whether it's a big enough hole to sink him completely is another matter.



They are certainly trying that, just had a lacky on BBC 1 o'clock, explaining well it was for next year anyway so they can park it til October at which point a Works and Pensions Minister can look at what else they might cut instead.  Its like the actual criticisms washed over them completely: that ring fencing within the department means it be the most vulnerable getting kicked and doing that while giving middle managers tax breaks ain't carey sharey/compassionate conservatism.

Toast.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2016)

I'm going to lay a bet on Labour winning the next election (under Corbyn).


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## J Ed (Mar 21, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm going to lay a bet on Labour winning the next election (under Corbyn).



How much?


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 21, 2016)

I rekon Cameron and Osbourne will stay in place until the referendum - after that I wouldn't be at all surprised to see gideon sacked as cameron tries to hang on in the face of those trying to bump him out of number 10. 
I agree with the comment above that a narrow win for "stay" will the worst of all world for the tories. The brextiers are extremely bad losers and they will not be giving up - they will blame cameron for playing dirty and they will want his head whatever. 
I notice david davies has waded into the furore in support of IDS - does he want another crack at the leadership i wonder?


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## marty21 (Mar 21, 2016)

It looks like IDS has finally exposed divisions within the Tories about Austerity (only took him 6 years to admit this ) and Osborne will have to tread carefully, particularly as the London Mayoral election is coming up, and Scottish Elections too, and local elections, all in the next couple of months.

I'd have thought there's a big chance of a leadership election in the Autumn, if the referendum vote is to stay, Cameron might be tempted to leave on a high, and Osborne would them be perfectly placed for a coronation -as Bojo will be fucked by a referendum defeat. If we vote to leave, then Cameron has to resign, Bojo will no doubt romp to victory, and might well be tempted to go for a snap general election as well.


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

6/1 Surprising low odds.


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## J Ed (Mar 21, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> I rekon Cameron and Osbourne will stay in place until the referendum - after that I wouldn't be at all surprised to see gideon sacked as cameron tries to hang on in the face of those trying to bump him out of number 10.
> I agree with the comment above that a narrow win for "stay" will the worst of all world for the tories. The brextiers are extremely bad losers and they will not be giving up - they will blame cameron for playing dirty and they will want his head whatever.
> I notice david davies has waded into the furore in support of IDS - does he want another crack at the leadership i wonder?



David Davis would be a great candidate in terms of both someone who could conceivably win a Tory leadership election and be beaten by Corbyn.


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> I rekon Cameron and Osbourne will stay in place until the referendum - after that I wouldn't be at all surprised to see gideon sacked as cameron tries to hang on in the face of those trying to bump him out of number 10.
> I agree with the comment above that a narrow win for "stay" will the worst of all world for the tories.* The brextiers are extremely bad losers* and they will not be giving up - they will blame cameron for playing dirty and they will want his head whatever.
> I notice david davies has waded into the furore in support of IDS - does he want another crack at the leadership i wonder?



 You are basing that on what?a referendum over 40 years ago


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

J Ed said:


> David Davis would be a great candidate in terms of both someone who could conceivably win a Tory leadership election and be beaten by Corbyn.



Something odd about Davis.  Was almost as if he threw the leadership race against Cameron, a lurking skeleton of some sort possibly -but nothing overtly criminal as they gave him the Home Office brief


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 21, 2016)

gosub said:


> You are basing that on what?a referendum over 40 years ago



Er no - The way UKIPers, people like  IDS and the other assorted head bangers behave whenever they are thwarted.
You think they will accept the result and meekly shut up?


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## marty21 (Mar 21, 2016)

gosub said:


> Something odd about Davis.  Was almost as if he threw the leadership race against Cameron, a lurking skeleton of some sort possibly -but nothing overtly criminal as they gave him the Home Office brief


can't remember now why he wasn't given a cabinet post, was it a brexit thing ?


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## kebabking (Mar 21, 2016)

gosub said:


> You are basing that on what?a referendum over 40 years ago



their behaviour - these are the same 'bastards' that plagued John Major 20-odd years ago - has hardly moved them away from the stereotype of the swivell-eyed loons, has it?

the Tory Brexists are _fanatics_ - they won't change their mind and the can't change the subject - they will never 'get over it', they will never just accept it and move on, they are the epytomy of 'in defeat, Malice'.

they are the same as the wierdos who _still_ give their loyalty to a minor decendant of the Stuarts who lives in Astria and wants them to go away - the term 'oh well...' utterly escapes them...


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

marty21 said:


> can't remember now why he wasn't given a cabinet post, was it a brexit thing ?


David Davis: Why I am resigning


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## marty21 (Mar 21, 2016)

gosub said:


> David Davis: Why I am resigning


I stopped reading when he mentioned the Magna Carta  but I remember now.


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## LeslieB (Mar 21, 2016)

kebabking said:


> they are the same as the wierdos who _still_ give their loyalty to a minor decendant of the Stuarts who lives in Astria and wants them to go away - ..


Who? Where is Astria? I'm confused.


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

kebabking said:


> their behaviour - these are the same 'bastards' that plagued John Major 20-odd years ago - has hardly moved them away from the stereotype of the swivell-eyed loons, has it?
> 
> the Tory Brexists are _fanatics_ - they won't change their mind and the can't change the subject - they will never 'get over it', they will never just accept it and move on, they are the epytomy of 'in defeat, Malice'.
> 
> they are the same as the wierdos who _still_ give their loyalty to a minor decendant of the Stuarts who lives in Astria and wants them to go away - the term 'oh well...' utterly escapes them...


This would be the bastards and fanatics that thought the EUro would be a disaster.   These would be the bastards and fanatics who have been thwarted over public consultation on things like the EUropean constitution that has given the EU enough scope that the Italian finance minister reckons they could bring in pan EUropean taxation without needing treaty change (which makes Cameron's 'reform' -legal if incorporated in a new treaty, a joke).   You can't keep constantly keep moving the goal posts and expect the NAY sayers to shrug it off. Particularly as the "bastards" were right over the EUro.

I don't know what OUTERs would do if its a Remain vote, but it wasn't swivvel eyed lunacy to have expected a referendum both over Maastrict and the constitution.  I'm depressed enough about what they will do in the event of a Leave vote -the terms we end with won't quell Farage et al.


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## marty21 (Mar 21, 2016)

gosub said:


> This would be the bastards and fanatics that thought the EUro would be a disaster.   These would be the bastards and fanatics who have been thwarted over public consultation on things like the EUropean constitution that has given the EU enough scope that the Italian finance minister reckons they could bring in pan EUropean taxation without needing treaty change (which makes Cameron's 'reform' -legal if incorporated in a new treaty, a joke).   You can't keep constantly keep moving the goal posts and expect the NAY sayers to shrug it off. Particularly as the "bastards" were right over the EUro.
> 
> I don't know what OUTERs would do if its a Remain vote, but it wasn't swivvel eyed lunacy to have expected a referendum both over Maastrict and the constitution.  I'm depressed enough about what they will do in the event of a Leave vote -the terms we end with won't quell Farage et al.


I think the Outers will blame 'project fear' and go conspiraloon, after claiming it is a once in a generation vote, will say it is too important and want a twice in a generation vote.


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

marty21 said:


> I think the Outers will blame 'project fear' and go conspiraloon, after claiming it is a once in a generation vote, will say it is too important and want a twice in a generation vote.



No its not OUTER's who are saying its a once in a generation thing.  Its every cunting government since Thatcher that seems to think the best way forward has been not to engage with the public when getting further entwined.  Alan Johnson in the Guardian debate said it was a myth that EUrope is inflicted on the UK, as a former cabinet Minister an entirely honest thing to say: they get consulted, for Joe public not so mythical (which is I concede a UK failing rather than an EU one) but in means more of the same.

Potentially there may be another treaty coming up, they were getting geared up a year ago, which would under current statute, mean another referendum, though the murmurings from the continent is there's enough scope in current format to further integrate without one.


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## killer b (Mar 21, 2016)

marty21 said:


> I think the Outers will blame 'project fear'


Wouldn't they be right to do so?


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## DotCommunist (Mar 21, 2016)

newbie said:


> But unless they remember sooner rather than later that tearing chunks off their enemies sustains their opponents, for the time being it's enjoyable to watch.


I don't think anyones forgotten but its that thing, nobody resigns for the good of the party anymore. These people are vultures.


kebabking said:


> their behaviour - these are the same 'bastards' that plagued John Major 20-odd years ago - has hardly moved them away from the stereotype of the swivell-eyed loons, has it?
> 
> the Tory Brexists are _fanatics_ - they won't change their mind and the can't change the subject - they will never 'get over it', they will never just accept it and move on, they are the epytomy of 'in defeat, Malice'.
> 
> they are the same as the wierdos who _still_ give their loyalty to a minor decendant of the Stuarts who lives in Astria and wants them to go away - the term 'oh well...' utterly escapes them...


epitome

but yes, they won't be giving up. Thats why its all the more delicious if its avery close result. They'll feel, with some justification, that half the country agrees with them and the crucial 'don't knows' got mugged by a media campaign. Thus ran the scots indyreff, although given the turnout what looks narrow there was still a big chunk of people swaying it towards keeping in the UK


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## brogdale (Mar 21, 2016)

Cameron has, apparently, convened an 'unexpected' meeting with the '22 on Wednesday.

1995 all over again.."back me or sack me"?


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## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Cameron has, apparently, convened an 'unexpected' meeting with the '22 on Wednesday.
> 
> 1995 all over again.."back me or sack me"?


Budget vote is tommorow, Tuesday


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## Sprocket. (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Cameron has, apparently, convened an 'unexpected' meeting with the '22 on Wednesday.
> 
> 1995 all over again.."back me or sack me"?



Should we all email Graham Brady stating that as loyal tories  we implore he should put the boot in on our behalf?


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## Wilf (Mar 21, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm going to lay a bet on Labour winning the next election (under Corbyn).


Last couple of polls - before all this came out - slightly better for Labour:
Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Be interesting to see how it all plays out in the polls over the next few weeks.  To be honest though, whilst Labour will certainly benefit from the tory civil war, I can't see them making the most out of it.  Corbyn just can't do the vicious stuff, you need an absolute bastard as leader to really twist the knife. More than that, in terms of electoral politics labour are still navel gazing and having their own slow motion civil war. Long time off, but the tories are still significant favourites to win in 2020.


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## ruffneck23 (Mar 21, 2016)

wrong thread soz


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## marty21 (Mar 21, 2016)

gosub said:


> Budget vote is tommorow, Tuesday


wouldn't take much for the Tories to lose the vote, a wafer thing majority, I think it is protocol to accept the budget but in case I think protocol will be out the window.


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## marty21 (Mar 21, 2016)

killer b said:


> Wouldn't they be right to do so?


mebbe, but they have been using it themselves as well -


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## LeslieB (Mar 21, 2016)

marty21 said:


> wouldn't take much for the Tories to lose the vote, a wafer thing majority, I think it is protocol to accept the budget but in case I think protocol will be out the window.


Rebelling on the budget is almost unheard of.  The Tory majority is indeed wafer thin but that assumes parties like the DUP and the UUP back the opposition


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## kebabking (Mar 21, 2016)

marty21 said:


> wouldn't take much for the Tories to lose the vote, a wafer thing majority, I think it is protocol to accept the budget but in case I think protocol will be out the window.



conversely, while many tories are deeply unhappy with the budget, and might well be inclined to vote against, losing a budget vote is usually a precursor to a vote of no confidence, and whatever their misgivings about the George and Dave show, few fancy the political optics of a budget defeat and a confidence vote.

some of the headbanging loons perhaps, but even they have constituancies to answer to and _take advice_ from..


----------



## Wilf (Mar 21, 2016)

grauniad suggests corbyn missed an open goal on the ids stuff:
Corbyn challenges the prime minister: Where is George Osborne? – Politics live


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 21, 2016)

Wilf said:


> grauniad suggests corbyn missed an open goal on the ids stuff:
> Corbyn challenges the prime minister: Where is George Osborne? – Politics live


yeh but they would wouldn't they


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 21, 2016)

kebabking said:


> losing a budget vote is usually a precursor to a vote of no confidence


yeh that's the way it so frequently goes


----------



## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh that's the way it so frequently goes


how many budget votes can you remember a government losing?


----------



## treelover (Mar 21, 2016)

Wilf said:


> grauniad suggests corbyn missed an open goal on the ids stuff:
> Corbyn challenges the prime minister: Where is George Osborne? – Politics live




He chose to focus on the refugees, then on Osborne.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 21, 2016)

gosub said:


> how many budget votes can you remember a government losing?


none tbh i was being sarcastic
they might have lost one or two when i wasn't looking mind


----------



## gosub (Mar 21, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> none tbh i was being sarcastic
> they might have lost one or two when i wasn't looking mind


I thought the sarcasm was directed at a majority of MP's saying they have confidence in a government that can't even get its budget passed(which is what would probably happen )


----------



## brogdale (Mar 21, 2016)

In the commons Cameron spoke very warmly off the former DWP Minister that he called a _dishonourable shit _just 2 days ago_._


----------



## marty21 (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> In the commons Cameron spoke very warmly off the former DWP Minister that he called a _dishonourable shit _just 2 days ago_._


It's a talent that both of his faces have


----------



## Schmetterling (Mar 21, 2016)

I can't remember whether this has been discussed on here yet.

Where is Osborne? I know it has been commented on in the press that he has been laying low .... buuuut: is he in a 5-day detox? Or: wouldn't it be delicious if the Tories themselves have no idea where he is?


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> In the commons Cameron spoke very warmly off the former DWP Minister that he called a _dishonourable shit _just 2 days ago_._



"Dishonourable shit" is a compliment for these chaps, an example of the Nudge-Wink theory of political cuntery. Good job doing the dirty work, now fuck off!


----------



## brogdale (Mar 21, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> "Dishonourable shit" is a compliment for these chaps, an example of the Nudge-Wink theory of political cuntery. Good job doing the dirty work, now fuck off!


I don't think so; it's their version of scab.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> I don't think so; it's their version of scab.



They love scabs too. Fucking each over is like fucking a dead pig's head. It's a performance ritual.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 21, 2016)

Schmetterling said:


> I can't remember whether this has been discussed on here yet.
> 
> Where is Osborne? I know it has been commented on in the press that he has been laying low .... buuuut: is he in a 5-day detox?



Maybe that or possibly

- Consulting with overpaid PR wonks about a stupid new pose for photos

- Laughing himself silly at the thought of disabled people killing themselves.

- Consulting with cartel criminals about the £22,000,000,000 underselling of our RBS shares.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 21, 2016)

In the medium term I think the tories will handle their differences more proficiently than labour. 

A lust to drive poor disabled people to penury and suicide can be a very unifying force.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 21, 2016)

kebabking said:


> conversely, while many tories are deeply unhappy with the budget, and might well be inclined to vote against, losing a budget vote is *usually a precursor to a vote of no confidence*, and whatever their misgivings about the George and Dave show, few fancy the political optics of a budget defeat and a confidence vote


Traditionally the budget vote was often viewed so, but since fixed term Parliament bill the gov could lose the budget vote and little would happen. Not that they will lose the vote anyway, whatever the animosities in the ranks they aren't going to throw out the budget.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 21, 2016)

David Cameron talking about honour made me realise once more how alien the concept is to all of them. Even the unity they previously displayed, that was total shutout tories in the same boat weilding the big cutting scissors. Their honour looks a lot different to mine.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 21, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> David Cameron talking about honour made me realise once more how alien the concept is to all of them. Even the unity they previously displayed, that was total shutout tories in the same boat weilding the big cutting scissors. Their honour looks a lot different to mine.



It's like 'honour among thieves' isn't it? A sort of deliberate oxymoron used for dramatic effect.

Or maybe these people actually think they posess something resembling decency.


----------



## Schmetterling (Mar 21, 2016)

Remember Boris saying that the Conservatives don't turn on each other?
——

Found this:
Cowardly George Osborne is on the run. Help find him and bring him to justice


----------



## MrSki (Mar 21, 2016)




----------



## Anju (Mar 21, 2016)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> - Consulting with cartel criminals about the £22,000,000,000 underselling of our RBS shares.



I don't think the above figure has been bandied about enough.  I only saw it via a link in Guardian comments, which for a while have been very daily mailish but even the Tory trolls seem to have given up, and came here to see if it was mentioned.  Surely the Labour party should be using this kind of news more effectively, and anyone opposed to this government should be posting links on all their social media platforms.  It is the kind of thing that might actually stick in people's minds come election time.

Osborne distracts Britain with his budget, then drops this utter bombshell | The Canary


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 21, 2016)

Schmetterling said:


> Where is Osborne?


 
the downing street cat is concerned -


----------



## J Ed (Mar 21, 2016)

hehe that is what a cat would say


----------



## treelover (Mar 21, 2016)

ITV News are reporting only 10 M.P's were at the weekly meeting with J/C and John Mc, tbh, i'm gutted:, tonight should have been a really positive gathering, even a triumph, after Cameron was mauled at the dispatch box. But, J/C didn't do it, he went for his favourite issues, Syria, Refugees, etc and lost momentum, he didn't even mention Smith and his accusations, which would have been like poison to the Tories. He should have first gone for them first on Smith, then raised his criticisms of the Tories foreign policies, etc, but the latter are his obsessions.

Saddened tonight, just hope John tears a stip off Gideon tomorow


----------



## brogdale (Mar 21, 2016)

> *Boris criticises George Osborne over Budget 'mistake'*
> *Boris Johnson heaps pressure on the Chancellor over his Budget U-turn on disability benefits as Mr Osborne prepares to try and rebuild his reputation in a showdown with Conservative MPs.*


Of course.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Of course.



lol

Great stuff, more more more


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2016)

treelover said:


> ITV News are reporting only 10 M.P's were at the weekly meeting with J/C and John Mc, tbh, i'm gutted:, tonight should have been a really positive gathering, even a triumph, after Cameron was mauled at the dispatch box. But, J/C didn't do it, he went for his favourite issues, Syria, Refugees, etc and lost momentum, he didn't even mention Smith and his accusations, which would have been like poison to the Tories. He should have first gone for them first on Smith, then raised his criticisms of the Tories foreign policies, etc, but the latter are his obsessions.
> 
> Saddened tonight, just hope John tears a stip off Gideon tomorow



I watched it.  He complained PM had only given him half his statement in advance.  Presumably the Refugee part. Which leads me to a couple of conclusions, firstly he can't think on his feet, but would rather depend on prepared speech's.  Second he needs a new speech writer, he'd lost momentum even within the part about Syria.  

Prior to this afternoon I'd say he was having a spectacularly good week 2 polls that help him and then a gold plated gift horse from IDS....  and he is left showing his feet of clay


----------



## DownwardDog (Mar 22, 2016)

Anju said:


> Surely the Labour party should be using this kind of news more effectively, and anyone opposed to this government should be posting links on all their social media platforms.



I don't think the Labour party want to remind people that Brown spent 46bn to buy us all a bank we didn't want and it's now worth 22bn less than that. It's only costing 22bn if, at some indeterminate point in the future, it will be worth 46bn again. ie, the share price doubles. GO sold the last batch of RBS at 330p and they are now 235p so he did alright there...


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 22, 2016)

DownwardDog said:


> I don't think the Labour party want to remind people that Brown spent 46bn to buy us all a bank we didn't want and it's now worth 22bn less than that. It's only costing 22bn if, at some indeterminate point in the future, it will be worth 46bn again. ie, the share price doubles. GO sold the last batch of RBS at 330p and they are now 235p so he did alright there...


the tory party are in a massive shambles because you all despise each other as much as you do humanity in general and only a shallow veneer of shared visciousness keeps you off each others throats for five seconds. And lets not talk about who flogs off the family silver eh? Your lot don't look good on that front. Your lot aren't just morally bankrupt- they are proven incompetents. Suck it up.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2016)

Hague ignores calls for calm/truce, and goes for IDS big-time...


> Many party members will feel let down by such an unhelpful development so close to elections in Scotland, Wales and London. Resigning now is damaging not just to the Prime Minister and Chancellor, but also to every Conservative candidate for a seat in an assembly, or a police commissionership, or for Mayor of London. And these are the people to whom we ex-leaders have a special responsibility, because they tramped the streets for us when we needed them ...
> 
> It is a central Conservative argument that pro-business tax changes are not an alternative to welfare spending, but a crucial necessity if we are to pay the vast welfare bills of the future. Depicting the budget as a zero-sum reduction in welfare spending to pay for tax cuts – or juxtaposed with them, as Iain Duncan Smith put it – is simply *playing into the hands of a leftwing fallacy* that would take us back to Gordon Brown’s policies if put into practice.


​


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> How much?



A more valid question is "at what odds?".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 22, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm going to lay a bet on Labour winning the next election (under Corbyn).



It's worth a punt. Long odds, but then long odds pay off better!


----------



## LeslieB (Mar 22, 2016)

Do you literally mean "lay a bet" I.e. bet against or do you mean put a bet on Labour winning? ( confusing terminology I know)


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2016)

Fatty doesn't disappoint. (impossible not to read the whole thing without hearing that loquacious, claret-lubricated, patrician arrogance). It's all great stuff, but the Alsatian quote is up there with the best!


> He... uses a vivid analogy to convey his frustration with the refusal of successive Tory leaders to confront their Eurosceptic opponents:
> 
> _*“If you have an Alsatian sitting in front of you, and it growls at you and bares its teeth, there are two ways of dealing with it. You can pat it on the head, in which case it’ll bite you, or you can kick it really hard in the balls, in which case it’ll run away. Successive Prime Ministers, and it’s not the present Prime Minister alone, have never understood that they have to take these people on.”*_



Not enough 's


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 22, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Cameron has, apparently, convened an 'unexpected' meeting with the '22 on Wednesday.
> 
> 1995 all over again.."back me or sack me"?



I'm pretty sure that Hamface can't convene the '22. All he can do is make a *request* to the chairman.


----------



## DownwardDog (Mar 22, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the tory party are in a massive shambles because you all despise each other as much as you do humanity in general and only a shallow veneer of shared visciousness keeps you off each others throats for five seconds. And lets not talk about who flogs off the family silver eh? Your lot don't look good on that front. Your lot aren't just morally bankrupt- they are proven incompetents. Suck it up.



I'm just pointing out the 22bn number is absolute shit dreamt up for the consumption of the financially innumerate.

We're still definitely going to win the 2020 GE, BTW.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 22, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> Do you literally mean "lay a bet" I.e. bet against or do you mean put a bet on Labour winning? ( confusing terminology I know)



The latter.


----------



## Gerry1time (Mar 22, 2016)

DownwardDog said:


> We're still definitely going to win the 2020 GE, BTW.



That's the fascinating subtext of all of this. The change in voting registration deliberately aimed at removing non-Tory voters from the register. The boundary review and the potential gerrymandering in that, and the way Osborne has become so obsessed with treating the treasury like a voter purchasing department. If they don't vote Tory, fuck 'em.

What's fascinating is how hard this will bite the Tory party in the arse in the not too distant future. A lot of what's happening at the moment is Osborne's naked politicking with the national budget finally getting publically rumbled. I wouldn't be surprised if the other elements of the election rigging project start to get noticed soon too.

It will bite the party in the arse because it does no party any good to be in power too long. The unpopular or incorrect decisions start to have to be accounted for, the vision runs out of steam, the cracks in party discipline get ever wider. A lot of what won the Tories a majority at the last election was the fact Labour had been in too long, so the Tories could (semi) reasonably claim that any malaise was still Labour's fault, not theirs, since they hadn't been in power properly since 1997. Stay in power too long again, and the Tories will suffer the same fate. Yet for some reason, they seem determined to engineer things as much as possible to achieve exactly this result.

If I were in charge of Tory election strategy, I'd look to be losing the next election, let Corbyn run the country for a bit, then when it all falls apart, come back in a snap election as the saviours of Labour's mess once more. It'd entrench even further the 'Labour creates mess' narrative that seems to play quite well amongst voters. 

So yes, do feel free to win the 2020 election. It'd be great for the long term future of this country if you did.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2016)

Gerry1time said:


> It will bite the party in the arse because it does no party any good to be in power too long.


maybe so. but the institutional revolutionary party (mexico) and japan's liberal democratic party have both had long periods in office which make the tories' 1980-1997 look like a half-time interval.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm pretty sure that Hamface can't convene the '22. All he can do is make a *request* to the chairman.


yes, being as the '22 are the _backbenchers_


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 23, 2016)

DownwardDog said:


> We're still definitely going to win the 2020 GE, BTW.


The only way the Tories can win elections these days is through gerrymandering and other nefarious activities (the scrubbing of the electoral register for example). The 2015 GE was 'won' because your party _cheated_. I'd argue that your party isn't as popular as either you or your party wonks believe it to be.


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, being as the '22 are the _backbenchers_



Or the Brady bunch?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2016)

Sounds like Tyrie is doing a job on Johnson in the Commons treasury committee...


> *Tyrie tells Johnson one of his EU claims is 'a figment of your imagination'*
> 
> Tyrie asks about a claim in Johnson’s book about there being EU rules on the size of coffins.
> 
> ...


​


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> Or the Brady bunch?


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 23, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 84963



Tories all


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2016)

Rumbled.


----------



## andysays (Mar 23, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Rumbled.




Free lifetime subscription to Workers Girder for the first one to photoshop Johnson's head on to this picture


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2016)

andysays said:


> Free lifetime subscription to Workers Girder for the first one to photoshop Johnson's head on to this picture


Thing is...most buskers look/sound as though they believe in what they're doing.


----------



## andysays (Mar 23, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Thing is...most buskers look/sound as though they believe in what they're doing.



I haven't actually witnessed any of his recent performances, but if they're up to his usual standard, he'd struggle to come away with a hatful of loose change after a one-hour stint on the Underground.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2016)

> A major Tory donor has called for David Cameron to step down immediately after the EU referendum whatever the result and hold a Conservative leadership contest.
> 
> Alexander Temerko, who has given the Tories more than £300,000 since 2012 and supports Boris Johnson, said he believed the London mayor would be the right candidate to reunite the party after a divisive EU referendum campaign.


Piper calling tune.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 24, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Piper calling tune.


Here's the source for the article. 


> *Boris Johnson is the best hope for the Tories – and for Britain*
> Boris Johnson’s public support for Brexit was a dramatic moment that changed the whole tone of the referendum debate, shifting it from what was largely a Conservative party issue to a truly national one.
> 
> I believe strongly that the UK should remain in the EU, but I still applaud Johnson’s contribution. Unlike Iain Duncan Smith, he has been able to manage his disagreements with the prime minister and the chancellor without causing division. With Osborne now under severe pressure from so many in the party, Johnson is the only leadership candidate who has any hope of restoring unity.
> Boris Johnson is the best hope for the Tories – and for Britain | Alexander Temerko



Bozza's a mess; a disaster on two legs.


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 24, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> Bozzas a mess; a disaster on two legs.



They are all spoilt brats playing at being grown ups and destroying people's lives in the process.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 24, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> They are all spoilt brats playing at being grown ups and destroying people's lives in the process.


I agree. When I was watching PMQs this week, I kept thinking "they're just kids".


----------



## jakethesnake (Mar 24, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> I agree. When I was watching PMQs this week, I kept thinking "they're just kids".


University Debating Society wankers the lot of em.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2016)

Not sure if (or how) this might fit into the 'civil war' story, but I just had to put this out there...is it possible to think of a more toxic contemporary juxtaposition than Gove, Murdoch and U2. Kinnel.



> Justice secretary *Michael Gove attended a U2 concert in November with Rupert Murdoch*, the chair of News Corp, which owns The Sun and The Times newspapers, according to ministerial hospitality documents published on Thursday.
> 
> The news will fuel further speculation Gove was responsible for a leak to The Sun about a private conversation between the Queen and then deputy prime minister Nick Clegg, in which the monarch was said to have expressed “scathing views” of the EU.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2016)

jakethesnake said:


> University Debating Society wankers the lot of em.


The only debating in their university society was of the porcine 'mas' type.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Mar 24, 2016)

brogdale said:


> The only debating in their university society was of the porcine 'mas' type.



Fuck me! You worked hard to tease a joke out of that, I'll grant you.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2016)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Fuck me! You worked hard to tease a joke out of that, I'll grant you.


Hard-working family, me!


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2016)

its the cheering when they announce the terms of the budget that does me. Full throated roars of yay! fuck poor people! in fact, time to fuck median income earners a s well! yaaaaaay!


----------



## J Ed (Mar 24, 2016)




----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2016)

Ah, the integrity...


> *Former Government minister Sir Alan Duncan decided to join the “In” campaign after he failed in an attempt to join the board of one of the leading Brexit organisations*, it has been claimed.
> 
> Sir Alan emerged as a surprise pro-European Union campaigner in an article in the Telegraph on Thursday, accusing pro-Brexit colleagues of offering a "fanciful pretence" of Britain's future outside the EU.
> 
> However Matthew Elliott, the chief executive of the *Vote Leave campaign*, claimed that Sir Alan earlier this year had asked to join Vote Leave’s board.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 25, 2016)

Spivs gotta spiv


----------



## youngian (Mar 25, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Ah, the integrity...
> ​


Not just the Tories but most of the Brexit leading lights are jockeying for position like ferrets in a sack to place their egos on the top table. Perhaps it tells you something about the psychology of nationalists; it's about me me me while being blind to the big picture consequences.


----------



## treelover (Mar 25, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Not sure if (or how) this might fit into the 'civil war' story, but I just had to put this out there...is it possible to think of a more toxic contemporary juxtaposition than Gove, Murdoch and U2. Kinnel.
> 
> ​



Gove, but how Old is Murdoch? ageist but I thought someone like Sinatra would be more for him.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 25, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Ah, the integrity...
> ​


Stunning.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 25, 2016)

J Ed said:


>


That face says it all. It's not an expression I much care for; it's deeply disturbing.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 26, 2016)

Is Osborne still MIA?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2016)

Parris in his latest 'Times'* piece trashing Johnson says, amongst other things...


> _There is a pattern to Boris' life which should be marked out in red warning ink, it's the casual dishonesty, the cruelty, the betrayal...and beneath the betrayal the emptiness of real ambition, the ambition to do anything useful with office once it's attained. We should end our affair with this dangerous charmer._


Ouch!

*can't/won't link for obvious reasons

e2a: Parris also rakes up the old "_tank-topped bumboys" _quote.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2016)

Indy putting out some more choice titbits from the Parris piece...



> _Somebody has to remind us that it’s not enough for those who seek to govern us simply to be: they have to do. Incompetence is not funny. Policy vacuum is not funny. Administrative sloth is not funny. Breaking promises is not funny. A careless disregard for the truth is not funny. Advising old mates planning to beat somebody up is not funny. Abortions and gagging orders are not funny. Creeping ambition in a jester’s cap is not funny. Vacuity posing as merriment, cynicism posing as savviness, a wink and smile covering for betrayal . . . these things are not funny._


No love lost.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2016)

Like the headline, but Urban was way ahead of yer...


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2016)

Fox's response to Hunt's claim that Brexit would wreck the NHS...



What a bunch of cunts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2016)

the NHS is a massive political stick they use and its vile that they do it. Remember camerons 'I'll cut the deficit, not the NHS' election posters? How quick labourites are to remind us that we can't trust the tories with the NHS? playing to that most basic fear of 'what if I can't afford my/my kids treatment?'. The bastards know we know how it works in the US and think 'fuck that'. Using it again to play politics at the same time as trying to fuck it ready for sale


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 27, 2016)

Parris' attack is pretty devastating. Its an articulate, insightful, detailed and highly convincing argument setting out with forensic skill exactly why Boris is an utterly despicable cunt.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Parris' attack is pretty devastating. Its an articulate, insightful, detailed and highly convincing argument setting out with forensic skill exactly why Boris is an utterly despicable cunt.


He's written similar pieces over the last few years; he's never let Johnson's casual homophobia and racism rest.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Parris' attack is pretty devastating. Its an articulate, insightful, detailed and highly convincing argument setting out with forensic skill exactly why Boris is an utterly despicable cunt.


anyone got the full text? paywall ennit


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> anyone got the full text? paywall ennit


Sorry, no.
But here's yer poor man's tory version...

Boris Johnson. Liar, conman – and prime minister? | Nick Cohen


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Parris' attack is pretty devastating. Its an articulate, insightful, detailed and highly convincing argument setting out with forensic skill exactly why Boris is an utterly despicable cunt.


I predict zero devastation to Johnson's ratings.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Sorry, no.
> But here's yer poor man's tory version...
> 
> Boris Johnson. Liar, conman – and prime minister? | Nick Cohen


not like cohen to manage a whole article without a corbyn slagging bit


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 27, 2016)

killer b said:


> I predict zero devastation to Johnson's ratings.



The wider public wont notice - but inside the tory party its clear that there is a significant number who are not fans of Boris - they fucking hate him in fact - and this will give them ammunition and encouragement.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2016)

killer b said:


> I predict zero devastation to Johnson's ratings.


Maybe, but remember the selectorate is riven.

e2a : snap KT


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> The wider public wont notice - but inside the tory party its clear that there is a significant number who are not fans of Boris - they fucking hate him in fact - and this will give them ammunition and encouragement.


Johnson's unpopularity with the party establishment is part of his attraction.


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2016)

The tories aren't immune from the kind of in-party insurgency that seems to be going round atm. Look what the Labour right's attack on Corbyn did during the Labour leadership election, the republican attacks on Trump did for his popularity - why would this be any different?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2016)

killer b said:


> The tories aren't immune from the kind of in-party insurgency that seems to be going round atm. Look what the Labour right's attack on Corbyn did during the Labour leadership election, the republican attacks on Trump did for his popularity - why would this be any different?


But the PCP, are the gate-keepers determining the 2 candidates that are presented to the general party selectorate; his standing within the parliamentary party will determine whether or not he's even given the chance to appeal to the broad membership.


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2016)

Do you think this will be news to any of the PCP?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2016)

killer b said:


> Do you think this will be news to any of the PCP?


No, but his self-interested Brexit gamble will, for many, reinforce what they already knew.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 27, 2016)

The point is that attacks such as the one by mathew parris indicate just how vicious is the struggle for supremacy within vermin land. 
He also neatly summerises johnson's cuntishness for anyone interested in looking just a little bit further than the "loveable buffoon" facade.


----------



## Combustible (Mar 28, 2016)

There's also the sense that the Tories don't feel as desperate electorally as before the last election, when Johnson was being talked up. At the time many didn't expect an absolute majority in 2015 and the prospect of getting one in 2020 or even beyond seemed much less likely. If it seemed like only he gave them the chance of winning in 2020 they would have been more willing to put aside their dislike for him. Now they've been shown they can win a majority with a more conventional candidate and they also think that Labour under Corbyn is beatable, so its becoming less and less necessary for them to put up with him.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 28, 2016)

Combustible said:


> Now they've been shown they can win a majority with a more conventional candidate and they also think that Labour under Corbyn is beatable, so its becoming less and less necessary for them to put up with him.


Certainly quite a few commentators were saying as much in the weekend's papers/journals.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 28, 2016)

> The Conservative civil war over Europe has deepened amid clashes over the government's handling of the NHS and claims that David Cameron is ignoring Eurosceptic ministers.
> 
> Vote Leave, the Brexit campaign group led by Michael Gove, said the NHS had "plummeted into financial crisis" under Jeremy Hunt and accused the Health Secretary of "scaremongering" over the risk of leaving the EU.
> 
> It came as a senior Government source told the Daily Telegraph that *David Cameron now refuses to acknowledge his ministers who backBrexit.*





> The source said that *Mr Cameron refuses to make eye contact with Eurosceptic ministers* and ignores them when they pass in corridors. Downing Street denied the accusation.
> 
> In a further sign of the growing divisions within the Tory party, a "Downing Street insider" was quoted *comparing eurosceptics to Isil* over their apparent refusal to negotiate.




Tele​


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 28, 2016)

Probably best taken with a large dose of salt knowing the Tele's politics but still


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 28, 2016)

Would love to be able to read the whole of that Parris article, but looks like that's impossible


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 28, 2016)

Matthew Parris's civil partner is/was David Cameron's speechwriter. Friends you can rely on.


----------



## agricola (Mar 28, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Parris' attack is pretty devastating. Its an articulate, insightful, detailed and highly convincing argument setting out with forensic skill exactly why Boris is an utterly despicable cunt.



TBH I thought Steve Hilton's was better - Parris' was clearly intended to be portrayed as a savage attack against a major figure, but Hilton basically just summed his legacy as Mayor up as essentially nothing, and I think that would probably damage Boris a lot more.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 29, 2016)

Here's a stand out paragraph from that article.


> In an interview filmed just last week for Boris: the London Years, which will be broadcast at 7.30pm‬ on BBC1, Hilton says: “If I recall, the idea of Boris running for Mayor of London didn’t actually come from our ranks in the Conservative party’s leadership, it actually came from the then editor of the Evening Standard who thought he would be a great standard bearer for the party in London and be a great mayor.



The Ailing Standard's campaign was unremittingly anti-Livingstone, but talked up Bozza's affability while obscuring his lack of substance. If anything, Bozza is a consummate postmodern politician and the weak-minded fall for him every time because all they can see is the buffoon and not the racist, sexist narcissist that he truly is.


----------



## marty21 (Mar 29, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Fox's response to Hunt's claim that Brexit would wreck the NHS...
> 
> 
> 
> What a bunch of cunts.



didn't the leave campaign issue a report about the number of immigrant wrong uns who commit crimes? Because we want only decent British crims to commit crimes in Blighty


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2016)

marty21 said:


> didn't the leave campaign issue a report about the number of immigrant wrong uns who commit crimes? Because we want only decent British crims to commit crimes in Blighty


british bank jobs for british armed robbers 

british cells for british crims


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 29, 2016)

marty21 said:


> didn't the leave campaign issue a report about the number of immigrant wrong uns who commit crimes? Because we want only decent British crims to commit crimes in Blighty



Cor blimey it's a fair cop guvnor, Hatton Garden Robbery thread ------->


----------



## Libertad (Mar 29, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> british bank jobs for british armed robbers
> 
> british cells for british crims



Daddy was a bank robber.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Daddy was a bank robber.


should have gone into the upper echelons of investment banking, he'd have made a mint without risking a lengthy gaol term.


----------



## marty21 (Mar 29, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> british bank jobs for british armed robbers
> 
> british cells for british crims


they come over here and commit crimes and that, and stop British crims from doing their jobs - and they probably do it cheaper too


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2016)

marty21 said:


> they come over here and commit crimes and that, and stop British crims from doing their jobs - and they probably do it cheaper too


yeh my polish garroter did the job very efficiently and at only half the commission i would have had to pay a british garroter.


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 29, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Probably best taken with a large dose of salt knowing the Tele's politics but still



Made the Indie too 

David Cameron 'refuses to look pro-Brexit ministers in the eye'


----------



## Sue (Mar 29, 2016)

marty21 said:


> didn't the leave campaign issue a report about the number of immigrant wrong uns who commit crimes? Because we want only decent British crims to commit crimes in Blighty


Bloody foreigners, coming over here and nicking our... Oh.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 1, 2016)

> The Brexit campaign group backed by the justice secretary, Michael Gove, is trying to persuade senior NHS staff to sign a letter that includes a direct attack on David Cameron, who is accused of having “starved” the health service of funding.
> 
> In an email leaked to the Guardian, Vote Leave’s Cleo Watson tells clinicians that her group “desperately needs” doctors, nurses and pharmacists to warn that Britain’s health service is being damaged by the EU.
> 
> A draft version of the letter included by Watson says: “David Cameron and Jeremy Hunt must accept responsibility for this – they have starved the NHS of necessary funding for too long.”


Senior Tory Brexit group issues letter to NHS staff attacking PM



lol


----------



## gosub (Apr 2, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Senior Tory Brexit group issues letter to NHS staff attacking PM
> 
> 
> 
> lol



Not following the NHS spat but if Nick Herbert thinks he has any political currency left only one he's fooling is himself,


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 2, 2016)

Would that be the same NHS that would collapse without all the evil foreign immigrant nurses, doctors, technicians etc?


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 2, 2016)

Oh please let this one derail too! 

Tory backbench rebellion threat over Osborne’s academies plan


----------



## marty21 (Apr 2, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> Oh please let this one derail too!
> 
> Tory backbench rebellion threat over Osborne’s academies plan


Small majority,  bound to happen


----------



## brogdale (Apr 2, 2016)

marty21 said:


> Small majority,  bound to happen


This is an administration in very obvious crisis.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 2, 2016)

brogdale said:


> This is an administration in very obvious crisis.


Yes. It starts to feel as if there could be some hope again.


----------



## hot air baboon (Apr 2, 2016)

PETER OBORNE: The Tories' 30-year civil war is to reach bloody climax

I can’t say exactly how, but I feel certain the attempted destruction of Osborne by IDS somehow brought about Parris’s reprisal attack on Johnson. That is how civil wars work. Something elemental and very dark is going on here, and there’s a great deal more to come.
Much of it has been planned. At the height of last year’s election campaign, I was summoned to visit a famous and extremely influential Conservative politician. We sat together for about an hour as he set out plans to purge the Party after the election was over.

He wanted the Tories to move to the centre of the political spectrum and get rid of the Right-wing elements which, in his view, had dominated for so long. No names were provided, but it doesn’t take a genius to guess who he meant: IDS, former environment minister Owen Paterson, Bill Cash, ex-Defence secretary Liam Fox, and so on.

Now, this project is well under way. If the referendum is won by the PM’s Remain campaign, expect a Cabinet reshuffle for starters. With the exception of Michael Gove, Right-wingers will be sacked. A serious attempt will be made to bring the Blairite wing of Labour — such as former shadow ministers Tristram Hunt and Rachel Reeves — across the floor to Mr Cameron’s modernised Tories.


----------



## Smangus (Apr 2, 2016)

I hope the climax is so bloody that none of those cunts are left standing.


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Senior Tory Brexit group issues letter to NHS staff attacking PM
> 
> 
> 
> lol




I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I don't think I saw anything of this(which imo is dynamite, Gove, etc, attacking govt failure) on the BBC News, etc.


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2016)

hot air baboon said:


> PETER OBORNE: The Tories' 30-year civil war is to reach bloody climax
> 
> I can’t say exactly how, but I feel certain the attempted destruction of Osborne by IDS somehow brought about Parris’s reprisal attack on Johnson. That is how civil wars work. Something elemental and very dark is going on here, and there’s a great deal more to come.
> Much of it has been planned. At the height of last year’s election campaign, I was summoned to visit a famous and extremely influential Conservative politician. We sat together for about an hour as he set out plans to purge the Party after the election was over.
> ...




Er, Every Tory but one, Heidi Allen voted for the ESA cuts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2016)

treelover said:


> Er, Every Tory but one, Heidi Allen voted for the ESA cuts.


not on principle, by implication here. For party discipline and following what is seen as necessary, Technocracy over ideology or however you want to put it. Their horrifying 'pragmatism'


----------



## marty21 (Apr 3, 2016)

I think we could have another general election post the vote , whichever way it goes. Remain, Cameron may decide to go 'at the top' followed by leadership war and new leader craving legitimacy.  Leave , Cameron has to go , same thing follows.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 3, 2016)

More of this please! 

Jeremy Hunt’s tactics in junior doctors’ dispute attacked by senior Tory


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 3, 2016)

marty21 said:


> I think we could have another general election post the vote , whichever way it goes.


Leaving aside the question of why a government would choose to go to the polls when it's got serious problems, *how* can we have a GE after the referendum? Are you suggesting that the Tory party will put forward a vote in no confidence in itself? Or that enough Tory MPs will defect to allow the opposition parties to win a vote of no confidence? 

Sorry but this is fantasy stuff.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 3, 2016)

Smangus said:


> I hope the climax is so bloody that none of those cunts are left standing.



Every time I hear the words bloody climax all I can think about is Cameron and that pigs head


----------



## existentialist (Apr 3, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Leaving aside the question of why a government would choose to go to the polls when it's got serious problems, *how* can we have a GE after the referendum? Are you suggesting that the Tory party will put forward a vote in no confidence in itself? Or that enough Tory MPs will defect to allow the opposition parties to win a vote of no confidence?
> 
> Sorry but this is fantasy stuff.


I guess the likeliest outcome is that a lame duck government staggers forward, riven by disunity and unable to pass anything remotely controversial, until the next election comes around.

With a decent leader, I guess the party could be pulled together sufficiently to present some kind of united operation prior to that, but I can't see anyone in the running of sufficient charisma, intellect, and common cause with the various factions that could do that. Far more likely that Cameron bales out, some kind of caretaker fall guy falls into the vacant hole, and the party just has an orgy of tearing itself to pieces for the next 4 years.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 4, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Leaving aside the question of why a government would choose to go to the polls when it's got serious problems, *how* can we have a GE after the referendum? Are you suggesting that the Tory party will put forward a vote in no confidence in itself? Or that enough Tory MPs will defect to allow the opposition parties to win a vote of no confidence?
> 
> Sorry but this is fantasy stuff.


No, but if Cameron resigns , a new leader will crave legitimacy , the Tories banged on at Brown for years for being crowned as leader , a new leader won't want Labour hammering away at them like that. It's not a case of a vote of no confidence , they can dissolve parliament if they want.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 4, 2016)

marty21 said:


> No, but if Cameron resigns , a new leader will crave legitimacy , the Tories banged on at Brown for years for being crowned as leader , a new leader won't want Labour hammering away at them like that. It's not a case of a vote of no confidence ,* they can dissolve parliament if they want*.


No they can't. Not any more, to call an early election there would have to be 
(1) a vote for an early election passed by 66% of MPs or 
(2) a vote of no confidence passed against the gov and no opposing vote of confidence within 14 days of the VoNC

The first is off the table, the party behind in the polls isn't going to agree to go to an early election, especially if there's internal dissent in the party. 
The second is barely more likely, even if there is huge internal dissent in the Tories I can't see any Tory MPs willing to back a VoNC. You could have a situation where the new leader deliberately loses a VoNC in order to force an early election. However, I think any government would be very wary of doing so, it would look very contrived and could very easily backfire with the electorate.  

The "illegitimacy" thing was, and is, meaningless, it's the type of thing oppositions always go on about but suddenly change their minds about when in government. No leader is going to risk losing an election (which if the party is that split is very possible) for "legitimacy". Finally even if they are split the Tories aren't going to go to the polls before the bill redrawing the constituencies is passed.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 4, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> No they can't. Not any more, to call an early election there would have to be
> (1) a vote for an early election passed by 66% of MPs or
> (2) a vote of no confidence passed against the gov and no opposing vote of confidence within 14 days of the VoNC
> 
> ...


It wouldn't be difficult to pass legislation to overturn the 5 year parliament rule .


----------



## andysays (Apr 4, 2016)

marty21 said:


> It wouldn't be difficult to pass legislation to overturn the 5 year parliament rule .



It might be more difficult than you think, given the premise of this thread, ie a Tory party undergoing civil war and either a weakened old leader (Cameron) or a new leader still needing to establish their legitimacy. 

Not impossible, but not a foregone conclusion, IMO.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 4, 2016)

marty21 said:


> It wouldn't be difficult to pass legislation to overturn the 5 year parliament rule .


Right so this bitterly divided party under a new leader is going to try and pass legislation to remove the fixed term parliaments in order to go to the polls early. Sorry, why? Parties go the polls early when they think they can get a easy victory not when there a divided party with everything to lose. 

And it wouldn't be that easy or quick to overturn the fixed term parliament act. Especially if Labour/LDs oppose it, they could easily hold it up in the Lords even if it makes it through the HoC. 

Seriously this idea that an early election is likely is nonsense. The chances of there being a GE before 2020 are remote.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 4, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Right so this bitterly divided party under a new leader is going to try and pass legislation to remove the fixed term parliaments in order to go to the polls early. Sorry, why? Parties go the polls early when they think they can get a easy victory not when there a divided party with everything to lose.
> 
> And it wouldn't be that easy or quick to overturn the fixed term parliament act. Especially if Labour/LDs oppose it, they could easily hold it up in the Lords even if it makes it through the HoC.
> 
> Seriously this idea that an early election is likely is nonsense. The chances of there being a GE before 2020 are remote.


Anyway, it'll be much more fun watching them eviscerate themselves as they're forced to somehow survive for four years.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2016)

existentialist said:


> Anyway, it'll be much more fun watching them eviscerate themselves as they're forced to somehow survive for four years.


They won't. There'll be a post-referendum purge after which a bunch of the fuckers will be off to spend more time with their directorships and Panamanian accounts. But thereafter, the nasty party will unite to be in full-on Corbyn demonising mode.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 4, 2016)

brogdale said:


> They won't. There'll be a post-referendum purge after which a bunch of the fuckers will be off to spend more time with their directorships and Panamanian accounts. But thereafter, the nasty party will unite to be in full-on Corbyn demonising mode.


For all the best reasons, I hope that you're wrong 

But I suspect they'll find a way of hanging on - after all, being nasty doesn't stop them getting voted in


----------



## marty21 (Apr 4, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Right so this bitterly divided party under a new leader is going to try and pass legislation to remove the fixed term parliaments in order to go to the polls early. Sorry, why? Parties go the polls early when they think they can get a easy victory not when there a divided party with everything to lose.
> 
> And it wouldn't be that easy or quick to overturn the fixed term parliament act. Especially if Labour/LDs oppose it, they could easily hold it up in the Lords even if it makes it through the HoC.
> 
> Seriously this idea that an early election is likely is nonsense. The chances of there being a GE before 2020 are remote.


Why would Labour/LDs oppose it? The Lib Dems want another election so they can pull themselves away from the electoral basement, Labour would for it to benefit from Corbyn Mania, or to get rid of Corbyn. Just floating an snap GE as a possible, it is possible.


----------



## Libertad (Apr 4, 2016)

existentialist said:


> Anyway, it'll be much more fun watching them eviscerate themselves as they're forced to somehow survive for four years.



Not for us povs, we'll catch it as they attempt to enact ever more draconian legislation to show us that they know best and to appeal to those of the law and order persuasion.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 4, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Not for us povs, we'll catch it as they attempt to enact ever more draconian legislation to show us that they know best and to appeal to those of the law and order persuasion.


Better have an uprising, then


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 4, 2016)

marty21 said:


> Why would Labour/LDs oppose it? The Lib Dems want another election so they can pull themselves away from the electoral basement, Labour would for it to benefit from Corbyn Mania, or to get rid of Corbyn. Just floating an snap GE as a possible, it is possible.


It's possible that i might win the Noble prize for Chemistry but it isn't going to happen, and neither is an early election. 

And how would the LDs pull themselves away from the electoral basement when their vote has barely increased since May 2015? You proclaiming scenarios as possibilities when you don't even have basic facts, such as elections being at the discretion of the PM, right.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 5, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> It's possible that i might win the Noble prize for Chemistry but it isn't going to happen, and neither is an early election.
> 
> And how would the LDs pull themselves away from the electoral basement when their vote has barely increased since May 2015? You proclaiming scenarios as possibilities when you don't even have basic facts, such as elections being at the discretion of the PM, right.


Well the Lib Dems haven't much of a chance to increase their vote in less than a year tbf . And I said all along that it would be up to the Tory leader whoever that is.


----------



## chilango (Apr 5, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> No they can't. Not any more, to call an early election there would have to be
> (1) a vote for an early election passed by 66% of MPs or
> (2) a vote of no confidence passed against the gov and no opposing vote of confidence within 14 days of the VoNC
> 
> ...



I can't remember the "how" but the BBC featured one of its analysts speculating on how an early election could and might happen s couple of weeks back.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 5, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> It's possible that i might win the Noble prize for Chemistry but it isn't going to happen, and neither is an early election.
> 
> And how would the LDs pull themselves away from the electoral basement when their vote has barely increased since May 2015? You proclaiming scenarios as possibilities when you don't even have basic facts, such as elections being at the discretion of the PM, right.



I don't think you're taking into consideration that it's pretty unlikely that this Parliament as a whole could limp through four more years with two crisis riven main parties and an impending second global economic crisis. It's perfectly possible that 66% of MP's could decide an early election suited them and once the idea gained some momentum it would be hard for non-Tories to justify not wanting an early election.


----------



## gosub (Apr 5, 2016)

chilango said:


> I can't remember the "how" but the BBC featured one of its analysts speculating on how an early election could and might happen s couple of weeks back.


BBC had someone saying the Lords would vote down the budget a couple of weeks ago -  BBC isn't what it was


----------



## gosub (Apr 5, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> I don't think you're taking into consideration that it's pretty unlikely that this Parliament as a whole could limp through four more years with two crisis riven main parties and an impending second global economic crisis. It's perfectly possible that 66% of MP's could decide an early election suited them and once the idea gained some momentum it would be hard for non-Tories to justify not wanting an early election.


If they did it before the boundary changes then maybe.  I think an election would be in the national interest, but that comes a distant second with these fuckers


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 5, 2016)

SpackleFrog said:


> I don't think you're taking into consideration that it's pretty unlikely that this Parliament as a whole could limp through four more years with two crisis riven main parties and an impending second global economic crisis.


Why is it unlikely? (Letting your other assumptions stand for the minute).  Governments limp on despite the writing being on the wall all the time, the ALP survived a full term under similar pressures, the Major gov clung  on for five years.

How is it going to suit 66% of MPs to go the polls early? If Labour are ahead it's not in the Tories favour and vice versa, and if it's a coin toss then why would so many MPs risk a nice salary and pension for a long shot. You talk about party infighting but how is going to a risky early election where backbenchers could easily lose their seats not going to cause more infighting.


----------



## treelover (Apr 5, 2016)

existentialist said:


> Better have an uprising, then




What uprising will that be?, this isn't Iceland, even the Peoples Assembly event on the 16th looks likely to be smaller than in the past.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 5, 2016)

Governments only call elections when they are sure of winning it or when they have no choice. An unpopular, divided government lurching from crises to crises is not going to call an early election - they will cling on until 2020.


----------



## Libertad (Apr 5, 2016)

existentialist said:


> Better have an uprising, then



We're in a state of perpetual rebellion in our house. Small steps eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 5, 2016)

Libertad said:


> We're in a state of perpetual rebellion in our house. Small steps eh?


naughty steps


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 5, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Governments only call elections when they are sure of winning it or when they have no choice. An unpopular, divided government lurching from crises to crises is not going to call an early election - they will cling on until 2020.


oh i do hope not


----------



## Santino (Apr 5, 2016)

I have no idea how likely it is, but I can imagine a situation in which a faction of the governing party support the dissolution of parliament in order to force an election that they know they will lose, in order to force a leadership election and purge.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 5, 2016)

treelover said:


> What uprising will that be?, this isn't Iceland, even the Peoples Assembly event on the 16th looks likely to be smaller than in the past.


I didn't say it was any _particular _uprising - I leave such weighty decisions to the political sophisticates around here, like your good self.

Just an uprising in principle will do.


----------



## chilango (Apr 5, 2016)

gosub said:


> BBC had someone saying the Lords would vote down the budget a couple of weeks ago -  BBC isn't what it was



I wasn't agreeing with the BBC, just pointing out that some people _are_ talking about an early election being a possibility. That's all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 5, 2016)

existentialist said:


> I didn't say it was any _particular _uprising - I leave such weighty decisions to the political sophisticates around here, like your good self.
> 
> Just an uprising in principle will do.


----------



## chilango (Apr 5, 2016)

...and never, ever underestimate how greedy, self-centred and blinkered MPs are. They don't give a fuck about the government or the Party or anything other than their own interests in what is after all just a big fucking game to them.


----------



## gosub (Apr 5, 2016)

chilango said:


> I wasn't agreeing with the BBC, just pointing out that some people _are_ talking about an early election being a possibility. That's all.



I wasn't saying you were agreeing, I was pointing to another example of BBC pundits saying something could happen (in Lords vetoing budget a major constitutional crisis) when it ain't likely.


----------



## Flanflinger (Apr 5, 2016)

chilango said:


> I can't remember the "how" but the BBC featured one of its analysts speculating on how an early election could and might happen s couple of weeks back.



Did it involve a bloke wearing a funny hat and loads of gunpowder ?


----------



## andysays (Apr 5, 2016)

gosub said:


> If they did it *before the boundary changes* then maybe.  I think an election would be in the national interest, but that comes a distant second with these fuckers



We're straying away from the point a little, but does anyone know when the boundary changes are due to be implemented?

(and yes, I'm sure I could find out for myself, but I thought I'd see first if there was anyone who already knew...)


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 5, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Why is it unlikely? (Letting your other assumptions stand for the minute).  Governments limp on despite the writing being on the wall all the time, the ALP survived a full term under similar pressures, the Major gov clung  on for five years.
> 
> How is it going to suit 66% of MPs to go the polls early? If Labour are ahead it's not in the Tories favour and vice versa, and if it's a coin toss then why would so many MPs risk a nice salary and pension for a long shot. You talk about party infighting but how is going to a risky early election where backbenchers could easily lose their seats not going to cause more infighting.



The Major govt is an interesting comparison - Major won a bigger majority than Cameron in '92 if I remember rightly, nearly twice the size, and look what happened. And As bad as the ERM disaster was it doesn't touch what's coming as a result of the economic slowdown in China. I don't see it being very likely that we could get to 2020 without an election, at least not easily.

To be honest though, more importantly - if this Govt makes it to 2020 then we've only ourselves to blame really, it's not like a decent sized strike wave wouldn't send them packing pretty sharpish.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 5, 2016)

Ouch...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 5, 2016)

He's a lying cunt, that's for sure.


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 5, 2016)

Cameron always was a shifty looking fucker but it's really starting to show now. Every photo, every tv appearance... not long before he resigns now i think.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 5, 2016)

Line all the fuckers up against a wall.


----------



## MrSki (Apr 5, 2016)

*Hannah Pok*‏@HannahPok


David Cameron would prefer if Britain went back to talking about his romantic liaison with a dead pig http://bit.ly/1MQTVBx #PanamaPapers


----------



## chilango (Apr 5, 2016)

It was never the plan for him to still be PM. The impatience of his would be successors is really starting to show.


----------



## agricola (Apr 5, 2016)

chilango said:


> It was never the plan for him to still be PM. The impatience of his would be successors is really starting to show.



Not sure how true the first sentence is - Cameron was always going to serve most of this term if he won the last election.  As for his successors, I think that is a combination of Osborne being both rubbish and at best tolerated in the wider party, and them all assuming that Labour will do them a favour and get rid of Corbyn, leaving the (presumably Blairite) successor hopelessly compromised when the storm hits.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 5, 2016)

Unfortunately for them Corbyn seems to actually reach out for the people and that's really got them rattled , and good


----------



## chilango (Apr 5, 2016)

agricola said:


> Not sure how true the first sentence is - Cameron was always going to serve most of this term if he won the last election.  As for his successors, I think that is a combination of Osborne being both rubbish and at best tolerated in the wider party, and them all assuming that Labour will do them a favour and get rid of Corbyn, leaving the (presumably Blairite) successor hopelessly compromised when the storm hits.



I dont think the Tories involved in the machinations at the moment planned on Cameron being PM at this stage because I think they expected to lose the last election and the surprise victory has put a bit of a spanner in the works...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 5, 2016)

JC needs a little sharp pointy knife, pacifism aside now, just a nick.


----------



## agricola (Apr 5, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> Unfortunately for them Corbyn seems to actually reach out for the people and that's really got them rattled , and good



They aren't scared of that; they are scared that he isn't tarred with the same brush as the Blairites / Brownites are.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 6, 2016)

as long as they are scared....


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2016)

Synthesis of the omni-crisis...


> _Responding to the Government’s announcement that it will now spend £9 million of taxpayers’ money to lead the campaign to keep the UK in the European Union, Vote Leave Spokesman Robert Oxley said:
> 
> ‘*Number Ten is trying to distract the media’s attention from the issue of whether the Prime Minister’s family money is kept in offshore trusts. The Government promised that it would not take on the lead role in the referendum, so it’s disgraceful that they’re spending taxpayers’ money which could go to the NHS on EU propaganda instead.*_


----------



## Santino (Apr 7, 2016)

Do these two paragraphs strongly imply that it is Gove  himself who is having a pop at Cameron on tax dodging?



> A spokesman for Vote Leave, in which justice secretary Michael Gove plays a senior role, even accused No 10 of trying to steer the focus away from Cameron’s tax affairs.
> 
> “No 10 is trying to distract the media’s attention from the issue of whether the prime minister’s family money is kept in offshore trusts,” he said. "The government promised that it would not take on the lead role in the referendum, so it’s
> disgraceful that they’re spending taxpayers’ money which could go to the NHS on EU propaganda instead.”


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2016)

Santino said:


> Do these two paragraphs strongly imply that it is Gove  himself who is having a pop at Cameron on tax dodging?


Gove is certainly pretty dischuffed at the Government mail-shot...


> I want a fair campaign, I want people to hear from both sides but *what I think is wrong is spending £9m of taxpayers’ money on one particular piece of one-sided propaganda. *I think it is wrong that money that should be spent on priorities like the NHS is being spent on Euro-propaganda.
> 
> What people want are the facts and, of course, in a debate both sides will try to give people the information they need to make up their mind but the critical thing is I just think it’s wrong that at a time of austerity £9m of taxpayers’ money is going on a one-sided piece of propaganda, that money should be spent on the NHS, on the people’s priorities.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 7, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Gove is certainly pretty dischuffed at the Government mail-shot...
> ​


He wants the same spent on anti EU propaganda , don't agree with him why would any government do that when the official policy is to stay .


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 7, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Gove is certainly pretty dischuffed at the Government mail-shot...
> ​



Its amazing how many of these senior tories are big fans of the NHS after all.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> Its amazing how many of these senior tories are big fans of the NHS after all.


Innit.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 7, 2016)

Haven't noticed too much Tory criticism of Cameron's tax affairs - perhaps they are happy him getting the shit on that one but don't want anyone to dig into their arrangements?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2016)

marty21 said:


> Haven't noticed too much Tory criticism of Cameron's tax affairs - perhaps they are happy him getting the shit on that one but don't want anyone to dig into their arrangements?


Aside from their remaining innate tribal loyalty, I doubt that they think that Cameron or his father did anything worthy of criticism.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 7, 2016)

brogdale said:


> I doubt that they think that Cameron or his father did anything worthy of criticism.


Which doesn't mean that won't criticism him, if they see some advantage in it of course.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 7, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Aside from their remaining innate tribal loyalty, I doubt that they think that Cameron or his father did anything worthy of criticism.


true, but their tribal loyalty is a bit less loyal atm


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2016)

marty21 said:


> true, but their tribal loyalty is a bit less loyal atm


'Tis true; we are living through extra-ordinary times when headlines like these are becoming so commonplace as to excite little comment...


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 7, 2016)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Line all the fuckers up against a wall.



They would try to sell the wall to the firing squad, pretty much what they have done over the decades to British industry!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2016)

Major still hating on those bastards...

_The battle now joined over Europe has - on one side - the *romantic nostalgia* of an Out campaign that *aches for a past that has long gone*, in a world that has moved on. On the other side those - like me - who wish to remain are not European dreamers: we are realists who see an edgy, uncomfortable world, and believe that the UK is safer, more secure and better off remaining with our partners in Europe.

In the referendum, the easiest slogans inevitably lie with the Out campaign, and repudiating their often *foolish and extreme claims *is for a UK audience. Suffice to say, the Out advocates, whether in enthusiasm or ignorance, *lace their argument with false statistics and unlikely scenarios*.

They promise *negotiating gains that cannot - and will not - be delivered*. They hail the purported gains of leaving Europe, whilst ignoring even the most obvious obstacles and drawbacks._​
Nice.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 7, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Major still hating on those bastards...
> 
> _The battle now joined over Europe has - on one side - the *romantic nostalgia* of an Out campaign that *aches for a past that has long gone*, in a world that has moved on. On the other side those - like me - who wish to remain are not European dreamers: we are realists who see an edgy, uncomfortable world, and believe that the UK is safer, more secure and better off remaining with our partners in Europe.
> 
> ...


For a Tory, I thought Major wasn't too bad. For a Tory.

ETA: although I still think that instead of "ess aitch one tees", he should just have called them cunts.


----------



## Smangus (Apr 7, 2016)

Nice peas Norma.....


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 7, 2016)

existentialist said:


> For a Tory, I thought Major wasn't too bad. For a Tory.
> 
> ETA: although I still think that instead of "ess aitch one tees", he should just have called them cunts.



yeah but he was shagging edwina ' woolly hats ' currry  ( was it ? cant Remebmer her name but still a cunt ) so cant be all good


----------



## existentialist (Apr 7, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> yeah but he was shagging edwina ' woolly hats ' currry  ( was it ? cant Remebmer her name but still a cunt ) so cant be all good


Well, "for a Tory", dubious sexual proclivities are a bit of a given. I'm still waiting - offhandedly - to find out who's going to turn out to have been knocking off Theresa May...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 7, 2016)

i didnt mean quite that, she had those policies , yet he cuddled her at night, ye get me? although i am a bit pissed


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 7, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> yeah but he was shagging edwina ' woolly hats ' currry ( was it ? cant Remebmer her name but still a cunt ) so cant be all good


 
edwina currie

and at the same time as talking 'back to basics' moralistic bullshit to 'the lower orders'


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 8, 2016)

Criminal Justice Act.

Brought in by the Major government, so he can fuck off.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

Keep it up chaps...we'll remember all this.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 8, 2016)

Belushi would have loved this, he loved a good Tory civil war


----------



## J Ed (Apr 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Keep it up chaps...we'll remember all this.




The thing I love about Tory on Tory action is  that they are usually all dead on about each other


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 8, 2016)

J Ed said:


> The thing I love about Tory on Tory action is  that they are usually all dead on about each other


"Orgy of cunt-on-cunt violence"


----------



## two sheds (Apr 8, 2016)

J Ed said:


> The thing I love about Tory on Tory action is  that they are usually all dead on about each other



Indeed, wonderful stuff. Very rare you can agree with any of the fuckers, now I agree with both sides' opinions about the other at the same time.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 8, 2016)

existentialist said:


> Well, "for a Tory", dubious sexual proclivities are a bit of a given. I'm still waiting - offhandedly - to find out who's going to turn out to have been knocking off Theresa May...



Given how perpetually-adolescent so many Tory MPs appear to be, you could have written "knocking one out over Theresa May".


----------



## gosub (Apr 8, 2016)

Tories at war over EU 'propaganda' leaflet as MPs threaten to 'grind Government to a halt' in protest at David Cameron


----------



## teqniq (Apr 8, 2016)

Well yes regardless as to whether you are pro leave or stay it's disgusting that they've decided to spend £9 million of our dosh on pro-EU leaflets.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

8m ago12:37

*William Hill* have sent out a news release saying that *for the first time they are setting odds on the assumption that David Cameron is likely to step down as Tory leader before Jeremy Corbyn quits as Labour leader. *Here’s an extract.
For the first time David Cameron is favourite to stand down as Tory Leader before Jeremy Corbyn does so as Labour leader.
William Hill have cut their odds from 11/10 to 4/5 (stake 5 for profit of four)for Cameron to go first, and make Corbyn Evens (stake 1 for profit of 1) from 4/6.
William Hill have also cut their odds for David Cameron to resign as PM during 2016 from 3/1 to 2/1 - after winning the General Election in 2015 he was as long as 16/1 to quit this year.​


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 8, 2016)

love it


----------



## treelover (Apr 8, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> Belushi would have loved this, he loved a good Tory civil war




I'm sorry but I hadn't heard this, awful news, can you provide me a link to the RIP thread, thanks.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> "Orgy of cunt-on-cunt violence"


shurely "blue on blue"


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2016)

treelover said:


> I'm sorry but I hadn't heard this, awful news, can you provide me a link to the RIP thread, thanks.


http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/rip-matt-belushi.341763/


----------



## treelover (Apr 8, 2016)

thanks


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

Gloves off...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

ftr On R4's WatO Jenkin made an explicit accusation that Cameron had brought forward the announcement of the EUref leaflet in order to shunt the news agenda and distract from his own difficulties.


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> ftr On R4's WatO Jenkin made an explicit accusation that Cameron had brought forward the announcement of the EUref leaflet in order to shunt the news agenda and distract from his own difficulties.


Almost certainly the case. Cameron's cynicism knows no bounds. Good to see it back-firing on the fucker.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 8, 2016)

Petition: STOP CAMERON spending British taxpayers’ money on Pro-EU Referendum leaflets

Stir the pot!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

Tele reckons his own lobby fodder are calling Hamhead a hypocrite.



> David Cameron has been accused of “hypocrisy” by Tory MPs after it emerged he ordered all parliamentary candidates to reveal their tax affairs just months after selling off his stake in an offshore trust for £30,000.
> The document was circulated in March 2010 – just two months after Mr Cameron has now revealed he sold off a stake of the Bahamas trust set up by his father.
> “It is hypocrisy”, said one Tory MP, adding: “What other definition do you have for when you tell people they've got to do one thing and do the exactly opposite yourself."



Horrible anus territory, I'd say!


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 9, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> "Orgy of cunt-on-cunt violence"



Best not google that.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 9, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Best not google that.


Shouldn't think that would be a good idea, no.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 9, 2016)

brogdale said:


> ftr On R4's WatO Jenkin made an explicit accusation that Cameron had brought forward the announcement of the EUref leaflet in order to shunt the news agenda and distract from his own difficulties.


And of course the Archbishop Welby story helps too


----------



## gosub (Apr 9, 2016)

marty21 said:


> And of course the Archbishop Welby story helps too



How is that even a story?  Meanwhile 17 schools in Edinburgh closing for safety reasons is yet to be reported by any of the Nationals.  (presumably less newsworthy than working out how to talk about Elton John's sex life )


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2016)

Blimey, they're not playing nicely, are they?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 10, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Blimey, they're not playing nicely, are they?




The way that people describe the contrasting characters of Cameron and Osborne reminds me of the Clintons.


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 10, 2016)

The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press

^This is interesting and deserves a wider audience than it will get - the mainstream media sure ain't gonna touch it. Probably deserves a thread of it's own but I'll leave it here in the hope that it fits into a wider narrative of this government of shits unravelling.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2016)

jakethesnake said:


> The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press
> 
> ^This is interesting and deserves a wider audience than it will get - the mainstream media sure ain't gonna touch it. Probably deserves a thread of it's own but I'll leave it here in the hope that it fits into a wider narrative of this government of shits unravelling.


Some folk with pretty big followings on twitter have been doing their bit to publicise this story, notably Jukes & Natalie Rowe.


----------



## Dan U (Apr 10, 2016)

Jukes picks way too many fights with mainstream journalists these days on twitter. Rightly or wrongly I think whatever credibility he had with them in the past he has firmly burnt his bridges now.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2016)

Dan U said:


> Jukes picks way too many fights with mainstream journalists these days on twitter. Rightly or wrongly I think whatever credibility he had with them in the past he has firmly burnt his bridges now.


Maybe, but you can't help feeling sorry for Byline about the timing of their scoop. Under normal circumstances they'd have probably been able to get the story some traction, but as it is...very second division.


----------



## Dan U (Apr 10, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Maybe, but you can't help feeling sorry for Byline about the timing of their scoop. Under normal circumstances they'd have probably been able to get the story some traction, but as it is...very second division.


Oh yeah totally. I have a lot of sympathy with what they are all trying to do with the court reporting etc 

If Whittingdale had any other job in govt it would definitely be news.


----------



## gosub (Apr 11, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Well yes regardless as to whether you are pro leave or stay it's disgusting that they've decided to spend £9 million of our dosh on pro-EU leaflets.









Attn : Joanna George
Freepost : RSBB-XRZT-ZTXE
The Conservative Party Foundation
30 Millbank
LONDON
SW1P 4DP


----------



## J Ed (Apr 11, 2016)

I just got one of those leaflets through the door today, very glossy and official looking. Got official remain stuff through the other day too, nothing from either leave campaign.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 11, 2016)

gosub said:


> How is that even a story?  Meanwhile 17 schools in Edinburgh closing for safety reasons is yet to be reported by any of the Nationals.  (presumably less newsworthy than working out how to talk about Elton John's sex life )


totally agree, the Edinburgh schools closures should be major news, but aren't because ....Scotland. It should be treated as a major flaw of the PFI process, and I'm surprised the Tories haven't been using it to deflect from their problems since it all happened under Blair/Brown.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 11, 2016)

marty21 said:


> totally agree, the Edinburgh schools closures should be major news, but aren't because ....Scotland. It should be treated as a major flaw of the PFI process, and I'm surprised the Tories haven't been using it to deflect from their problems since it all happened under Blair/Brown.



The SNP are pretty keen on PFI too


----------



## marty21 (Apr 11, 2016)

J Ed said:


> The SNP are pretty keen on PFI too


Do they have to be ? Are they obliged to use PFI for funding schools/hospitals, etc ? I'm not that knowledgable about the process.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I just got one of those leaflets through the door today, very glossy and official looking. Got official remain stuff through the other day too, nothing from either leave campaign.



Got this one from 'Leave' through the door the other day...






Read "Fact" no. 1
_'The UK joined the European Union in 1973.'_​
Jokers couldn't even get that right -------> recycle bin.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 11, 2016)

The whole referendum campaign is so awful, I want to not vote but in a more forceful way than just drawing a dick on the ballot paper. I would like to set the ballot on fire or something instead.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2016)

J Ed said:


> The whole referendum campaign is so awful, I want to not vote but in a more forceful way than just drawing a dick on the ballot paper. I would like to set the ballot on fire or something instead.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 12, 2016)

A new low in the nasty, internecine hyperbole?


> _*David Cameron is overseeing "spiv Robert Mugabe antics" in the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union, according to a former vice-chairman of the Conservative Party.*
> 
> In an extraordinary attack on the government’s decision to spend £9.3 million of taxpayers’ money on a glossy 16-page booklet setting out the case to stay in the EU, Tory MP Nigel Evans likened Downing Street’s campaign to the African dictator’s continued attempt to cling to power._



Kinnel!


----------



## J Ed (Apr 12, 2016)

It really is a glossy leaflet, if you wanted someone to show you a good example of what a glossy leaflet looks like it would be that one.


----------



## gosub (Apr 12, 2016)

jakethesnake said:


> The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press
> 
> ^This is interesting and deserves a wider audience than it will get - the mainstream media sure ain't gonna touch it. Probably deserves a thread of it's own but I'll leave it here in the hope that it fits into a wider narrative of this government of shits unravelling.


newsnight covering now


----------



## J Ed (Apr 12, 2016)

gosub said:


> newsnight covering now



yeah they are saying it is 'breaking news' lol


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 12, 2016)

a bit of shit misdirection methinks


----------



## agricola (Apr 12, 2016)

Well done to Roy Greenslade, at least now people who want to point to laughably inept defences will have a convincing example to cite.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 12, 2016)

agricola said:


> Well done to Roy Greenslade, at least now people who want to point to laughably inept defences will have a convincing example to cite.


Sir Roy?


----------



## agricola (Apr 12, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Sir Roy?



It cannot be far off.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 12, 2016)

Perfect moment for the Whittingdale story to get into the mainstream media: takes the heat off dodgy dave and discredits a leading Brexit campaigner.

Dodgy Dave, Whiplash John....who's next?


----------



## killer b (Apr 12, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> a bit of shit misdirection methinks


What, whittingdale? Who's misdirecting?

This has been bubbling under for weeks, the reason it's gone over the top today is because of the second byline article with a lot more detail that's been all over the internet today to the point where it cant be batted away anymore. 

A news story that exposes corruption in government and collusion with the gutter press is a pretty mental distraction method. Not one at all in fact, although I'm sure any potential for distraction it provides will be seized.


----------



## gosub (Apr 12, 2016)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Perfect moment for the Whittingdale story to get into the mainstream media: takes the heat off dodgy dave and discredits a leading Brexit campaigner.
> 
> Dodgy Dave, Whiplash John....who's next?


Byline, lead to Press Gazette, lead to statement by Whittingdale lead to mainstream.....


----------



## brogdale (Apr 12, 2016)

Whittingdale's statement has a whiff of the Norman Fry about it.
I suppose he was going for the chop anyway, post 23rd June.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 13, 2016)

I tend to agree with the gutter press on the Whittingdale thing - it's just not that newsworthy. It's as though just because a Tory is involved people think that any way to get at them is totally ok... 

It's not as though the Tories don't manage to thoroughly cover themselves in a thick layer of fail anyway.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 13, 2016)

killer b said:


> What, whittingdale? Who's misdirecting?
> 
> This has been bubbling under for weeks, the reason it's gone over the top today is because of the second byline article with a lot more detail that's been all over the internet today to the point where it cant be batted away anymore.
> 
> A news story that exposes corruption in government and collusion with the gutter press is a pretty mental distraction method. Not one at all in fact, although I'm sure any potential for distraction it provides will be seized.


ah ok it was the first id heard of it, just thought the timing was pretty rum


----------



## brogdale (Apr 13, 2016)

I know he's at the far end of the swivel-eyed/nutjob continuum...but this sort of open defiance of a 'non-EU' policy is quite remarkable.



(will also post in Academies thread)


----------



## killer b (Apr 13, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I tend to agree with the gutter press on the Whittingdale thing - it's just not that newsworthy. It's as though just because a Tory is involved people think that any way to get at them is totally ok...
> 
> It's not as though the Tories don't manage to thoroughly cover themselves in a thick layer of fail anyway.


It's not really the relationship with a dom that's the problem, but more the reasons why the story hasn't been reported. The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 13, 2016)

killer b said:


> It's not really the relationship with a dom that's the problem, but more the reasons why the story hasn't been reported. The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press


as so often it's not the original offence but the cover up which does the damage.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 13, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I tend to agree with the gutter press on the Whittingdale thing - it's just not that newsworthy. It's as though just because a Tory is involved people think that any way to get at them is totally ok...
> 
> It's not as though the Tories don't manage to thoroughly cover themselves in a thick layer of fail anyway.


King's links to/contemporaneous relationship with someone convicted of firearms offences should have been newsworthy enough. Especially given that Whittingdale arranged her access to the commons and she accompanied him on trips/events where he acted as Govt. minister.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 13, 2016)

I like the idea that Whittingdale didn't pay for sex, as if he's just so attractive that he's irresistible to professional sex workers who refuse to take payment from him.


----------



## killer b (Apr 13, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I like the idea that Whittingdale didn't pay for sex, as if he's just so attractive that he's irresistible to professional sex workers who refuse to take payment from him.


that's a pretty grotty post.


----------



## killer b (Apr 13, 2016)

brogdale said:


> King's links to/contemporaneous relationship with someone convicted of firearms offences should have been newsworthy enough.


has that been confirmed today? it seems to have disappeared from the most recent detail, so I'd assumed it hadn't been stood up...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 13, 2016)

killer b said:


> has that been confirmed today? it seems to have disappeared from the most recent detail, so I'd assumed it hadn't been stood up...


Ah, didn't know that!


----------



## J Ed (Apr 13, 2016)

killer b said:


> that's a pretty grotty post.



Unoriginal too since I was just more or less just paraphrasing something retweeted by Natalie Rowe.


----------



## killer b (Apr 13, 2016)

is that meant to make it ok?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 13, 2016)

killer b said:


> is that meant to make it ok?



Re-reading what I wrote I do now realise that it was actually a very stupid thing to post, you are right.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> as so often it's not the original offence but the cover up which does the damage.



Particularly since he's been doing them such juicy favours.


----------



## gosub (Apr 13, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I tend to agree with the gutter press on the Whittingdale thing - it's just not that newsworthy. It's as though just because a Tory is involved people think that any way to get at them is totally ok...
> 
> It's not as though the Tories don't manage to thoroughly cover themselves in a thick layer of fail anyway.



Hmmm This would be a media that put man eats bacon sandwich badly! on their front page, and man in his 60's doesn't bow very well!, only last week the telegraph devoted its first 6 pages to bloke in a dress' mum had sex with before marriage!


----------



## two sheds (Apr 13, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> I tend to agree with the gutter press on the Whittingdale thing - it's just not that newsworthy. It's as though just because a Tory is involved people think that any way to get at them is totally ok...



From the article killerb posted: 



> So far his key policy decisions have included:
> 
> * Serial attacks on the BBC’s independence and influence
> 
> ...



The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press


----------



## laptop (Apr 13, 2016)

Is that pampas grass?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 13, 2016)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Perfect moment for the Whittingdale story to get into the mainstream media: takes the heat off dodgy dave and discredits a leading Brexit campaigner.



The real story being why the fuck it was suppressed for so long.



> Dodgy Dave, Whiplash John....who's next?



Bolivian George, hopefully.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 13, 2016)

laptop said:


> View attachment 85770
> 
> Is that pampas grass?


Nah, leaves are too big. One could always hope that it's a hungry Triffid though.


----------



## gosub (Apr 13, 2016)

laptop said:


> View attachment 85770
> 
> Is that pampas grass?



They would need a smoking gun to get rid of him, as is, what was presumably in News International's safe is now valueless (assuming the allegations are true)


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2016)

two sheds said:


> From the article killerb posted:
> 
> 
> 
> The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press


never ceases to amaze me how utterly bought these people are and how little they care to hide it


----------



## Schmetterling (Apr 13, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> The real story being why the fuck it was suppressed for so long.
> 
> 
> 
> Bolivian George, hopefully.



Not drug related but Hideous Gideous sounds good!


----------



## marty21 (Apr 13, 2016)

two sheds said:


> From the article killerb posted:
> 
> 
> 
> The Real Whittingdale Scandal: Cover up by the Press


I loved this phrase ;


> There were rumours that she had connections to the criminal underworld, but they remain as yet unsubstantiated.



Pointless! There must be millions with 'connections' to the 'criminal underworld' why is that even relevant. Some of the people who live in Council properties I manage have been convicted of various crimes, I have met them, I have spoken to them, therefore I have connections to the criminal underworld


----------



## killer b (Apr 13, 2016)

marty21 said:


> Pointless! There must be millions with 'connections' to the 'criminal underworld' why is that even relevant. Some of the people who live in Council properties I manage have been convicted of various crimes, I have met them, I have spoken to them, therefore I have connections to the criminal underworld


In the original story on byline it was claimed she was banging a gangster at the same time as she was banging Whittingdale - which, if true, is significant. Echoes of Profumo.


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 13, 2016)

There really is a lot to disbelieve about the official story.  I don't believe there wasn't some sort of financial relationship between the two of them. I don't believe they split when he found out about her job.  I don't believe the press spiked the story because of 'not in the public interest'. I don't believe it hasn't influenced how Whittingdale has gone about his job. I just don't believe much of it, the fucker probably isn't even called John Whittingdale its probably Michael Green or something.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 13, 2016)

killer b said:


> In the original story on byline it was claimed she was banging a gangster at the same time as she was banging Whittingdale - which, if true, is significant. Echoes of Profumo.


that would be significant - I do hate that lazy phrase 'criminal underworld' though, it is meaningless.

brb, just going to speak to some of my connections in the criminal underworld


----------



## Sue (Apr 13, 2016)

marty21 said:


> that would be significant - I do hate that lazy phrase 'criminal underworld' though, it is meaningless.
> 
> brb, just going to speak to some of my connections in the criminal underworld



<Reminds self not to mess with @marty21>


----------



## killer b (Apr 13, 2016)

marty21 said:


> that would be significant - I do hate that lazy phrase 'criminal underworld' though, it is meaningless.


I think they've been unable to confirm the info, but feel the need to include a reference to it for some reason. not sure why.

There was further salacious info about her handing out business cards in parliament too, which has also disappeared...


----------



## marty21 (Apr 13, 2016)

Sue said:


> <Reminds self not to mess with @marty21>


If you know me and I have links to the criminal underworld , then you have links to the criminal underworld too


----------



## marty21 (Apr 13, 2016)

killer b said:


> I think they've been unable to confirm the info, but feel the need to include a reference to it for some reason. not sure why.
> 
> There was further salacious info about her handing out business cards in parliament too, which has also disappeared...


Tbh , it's the phrase 'Criminal underworld' that makes lol


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 13, 2016)

marty21 said:


> If you know me and I have links to the criminal underworld , then you have links to the criminal underworld too


share and share alike


----------



## laptop (Apr 13, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Nah, leaves are too big.







teqniq said:


> One could always hope that it's a hungry Triffid though.





(BTW: tastelessness of some comments about Whittingdale aside, for those who've met him... )


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 13, 2016)

Sue said:


> <Reminds self not to mess with @marty21>



He's a tasty geezah, is Marty!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 13, 2016)

marty21 said:


> If you know me and I have links to the criminal underworld , then you have links to the criminal underworld too



Marty's the Daddy now!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 13, 2016)

marty21 said:


> Tbh , it's the phrase 'Criminal underworld' that makes lol



It's a bit Fagin and Bill Sykes, and not at all lower middle-class men living among non-criminals. I think the papers want every *real* villain to be like Plastic Dave Courtney, the "actor".


----------



## marty21 (Apr 13, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Marty's the Daddy now!


Where's your tool ?


----------



## MrSki (Apr 13, 2016)

marty21 said:


> Where's your tool ?


What fucking tool ?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 14, 2016)

Dan Poulter has said that he doesn't support doctors contracts and is Dave is failing the poorest in society.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 15, 2016)

Govt response to a recent petition on the Parliament site to 'hold a general election'. The first bit amused me - proper defensive 



			
				Cabinet Office said:
			
		

> The accusations made about the Government and Prime Minister in this petition are wrong, and the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act means no Government can call an early general election any more anyway.
> 
> The Government and Prime Minister have never sought to mislead the public. Nonetheless, the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act, which came into force in 2011 under the Coalition Government, removed the power to set the general election date, and therefore to call an early general election, from the Government and gave a power to the House of Commons to call an early general election in certain circumstances.
> 
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2016)

Some amusing remainarian-blue on remainarian blue here...


> *David Cameron would be overthrown as prime minister within 30 seconds of a vote to leave the EU in the June referendum, Kenneth Clarke has said.*
> In a direct challenge to Cameron, who told MPs this week that he would remain in office to negotiate Britain’s exit in the event of a vote to leave the EU, the veteran pro-European said it would be “farcical” for him to continue.
> The former chancellor told the Week in Westminster on BBC Radio 4: “The prime minister wouldn’t last 30 seconds if he lost the referendum and *we’d be plunged into a Conservative leadership crisis which is never a very edifying sight.”*


If Clarke thinks this sort of imagining might encourage people to the remainarian cause, he's very out of touch.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 16, 2016)

as is thinking a Conservative leadership crisis not being an edifying sight


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2016)

two sheds said:


> as is thinking a Conservative leadership crisis not being an edifying sight


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 16, 2016)

Boris Johnson urges crowd to interrupt live Channel 4 broadcast



			
				Guardian said:
			
		

> Crick began delivering a piece to camera midway through Johnson’s speech, in which the Tory MP dismissed David Cameron and other supporters of Britain’s membership of the EU as “Gerald Ratners of modern politics” – who admit the EU is “crap” but insist there is no alternative.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> Boris Johnson urges crowd to interrupt live Channel 4 broadcast



Saw that live. Now seeing Johnson's wind up it looks a bit Trumpesque; borderline "I love the poorly educated".


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 16, 2016)

Yeah it is really. I still lolled at him telling Crick to shut up though.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 16, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Saw that live. Now seeing Johnson's wind up it looks a bit Trumpesque; borderline "I love the poorly educated".



Honestly it had occurred to me when he decided to back leave that Boris might go down this route, I think him adopting at least the trappings of a more populist right-wing politics would be very successful electorally. That's probably why the Tories are trying to stitch up the internal democracy bit of another leadership election.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 16, 2016)

I didn't mean to write 'Boris'.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 16, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I didn't mean to write 'Boris'.



I do it too @self.


----------



## andysays (Apr 16, 2016)

> we’d be plunged into a Conservative leadership crisis which is never a very edifying sight



Clarke being a little disingenuous there - they're already in at least the beginning of a leadership crisis, and his statement is merely contributing to it


----------



## two sheds (Apr 16, 2016)

andysays said:


> Clarke being a little disingenuous there - they're already in at least the beginning of a leadership crisis, and his statement is merely contributing to it



Edifying isn't it


----------



## Santino (Apr 16, 2016)

Best argument I've seen for a Remain vote:



> Bernard Jenkin, the senior Tory backbencher who supports the leave campaign, warned the party would be in “grave danger” if the UK voted to remain in the EU. Jenkin said: “I think a lot of people will leave the Conservative party. I expect whatever emerges from the wreckage of Ukip will be more potent than before. I think these are very great dangers. And a remain vote paradoxically makes a Corbyn government somewhat more likely because the Conservative party will be in such an unhappy state.
> 
> “Certainly our voters will vote ‘leave’. The vast majority of our activists will vote ‘leave’. And under these circumstances, the Conservative party will be far more governable and leadable, and Ukip will go away, if we have a ‘leave’ vote.”


----------



## andysays (Apr 16, 2016)

Santino said:


> Best argument I've seen for a Remain vote:





> Bernard Jenkin, the senior Tory backbencher *who supports the leave campaign*, warned the party would be in “grave danger” if the UK voted to remain in the EU



MRDA


----------



## newbie (Apr 16, 2016)

andysays said:


> MRDA


you think?  do you recall anyone saying anything like that during the Scottish ref? Or any other time come to that.  Clarke has said Dave is toast if the vote goes the other way.  It all strikes me as somewhat unusual for senior politicians to make such clear statements of impending fratricide.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 16, 2016)

There was loads of doom mongering during the scottish ref.


----------



## newbie (Apr 16, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> There was loads of doom mongering during the scottish ref.


I don't think Clarkes warning of a leadership crisis is particularly unusual but were top end tories coming out and saying the Conservative Party itself was in grave danger if the vote went the wrong way?   I don't recall any


----------



## andysays (Apr 16, 2016)

newbie said:


> you think?  do you recall anyone saying anything like that during the Scottish ref? Or any other time come to that.  Clarke has said Dave is toast if the vote goes the other way.  It all strikes me as somewhat unusual for senior politicians to make such a clear statements of impending fratricide.



The main reason no one said that during the Scottish ref is because Scottish independence isn't an issue which divides the Conservative party. The EU clearly does, and has done for some time.

I'm (pleasantly) surprised by the apparent scale of the tory civil war, but not at all by the fact that it's a divisive issue or that various people, including both Jenkin and Clarke, are arguing dishonestly that others need to support their position on the EU "for the good of the party".


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 16, 2016)

The tories were all united on scotland though. On Europe there is a huge eurosceptic wing of the tory party who are mad as a box of frogs


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 16, 2016)

andysays said:


> The main reason no one said that during the Scottish ref is because Scottish independence isn't an issue which divides the Conservative party. The EU clearly does, and has done for some time.
> 
> I'm (pleasantly) surprised by the apparent scale of the tory civil war, but not at all by the fact that it's a divisive issue or that various people, including both Jenkin and Clarke, are arguing dishonestly that others need to support their position on the EU "for the good of the party".



I'm not surprised by it at all


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 16, 2016)

It's the one issue that has the potential to cause a split in the ranks, this is the issue that kept them squabbling for years and years from 1992 onwards. The pro business CBI Tax Evasion types vs a huge number of completely obsessive ideological loons.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 16, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> It's the one issue that has the potential to cause a split in the ranks, this is the issue that kept them squabbling for years and years from 1992 onwards. The pro business CBI Tax Evasion types vs a huge number of completely obsessive ideological loons.


Here's one of those obsessive ideological loons. He's as mad as a box of frogs too.


----------



## andysays (Apr 16, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> It's the one issue that has the potential to cause a split in the ranks, this is the issue that kept them squabbling for years and years from 1992 onwards. The pro business CBI Tax Evasion types vs a huge number of completely obsessive ideological loons.



It's not *just* about them being completely obsessive ideological loons (although there is some of that, obvs), it's also that the Conservative party is in some senses a coalition of different interests, different sectors of capitalism, and in some areas they have significantly different interests.

Mostly their shared interests are enough to keep them together, however grudgingly, but at the moment they are effectively forced to concentrate on their differences and, whatever the referendum result, they're doing themselves serious damage which will take time to repair.

Whatever the referendum result, I reckon Cameron is now finished. His decision to hold a referendum and subject the party to this now looks like a complete and utter misjudgement. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap...


----------



## two sheds (Apr 16, 2016)

Johnson's criticised the referendum leaflet as 'insufficiently absorbant'.


----------



## killer b (Apr 16, 2016)

Why do you think Cameron had any choice whether to hold this referendum Andy?


----------



## andysays (Apr 16, 2016)

killer b said:


> Why do you think Cameron had any choice whether to hold this referendum Andy?



Because he is and was the Prime Minister and the leader of his party. There was no constitutional necessity, it was a choice based on his judgement of the political advantage to be gained by promising to do so.

If you're suggesting he *didn't* have a choice, which you appear to be doing here and have done before, I suggest you need to back that up.

(I'm not suggesting the decision was 100% his with no input from anyone else, BTW, but in the end it was his decision, and he will be held personally responsible for the consequences)


----------



## gosub (Apr 16, 2016)

andysays said:


> It's not *just* about them being completely obsessive ideological loons (although there is some of that, obvs), it's also that the Conservative party is in some senses a coalition of different interests, different sectors of capitalism, and in some areas they have significantly different interests.
> 
> Mostly their shared interests are enough to keep them together, however grudgingly, but at the moment they are effectively forced to concentrate on their differences and, whatever the referendum result, they're doing themselves serious damage which will take time to repair.
> 
> Whatever the referendum result, I reckon Cameron is now finished. His decision to hold a referendum and subject the party to this now looks like a complete and utter misjudgement. Couldn't happen to a nicer chap...





andysays said:


> Because he is and was the Prime Minister and the leader of his party. There was no constitutional necessity, it was a choice based on his judgement of the political advantage to be gained by promising to do so.
> 
> If you're suggesting he *didn't* have a choice, which you appear to be doing here and have done before, I suggest you need to back that up.
> 
> (I'm not suggesting the decision was 100% his with no input from anyone else, BTW, but in the end it was his decision, and he will be held personally responsible for the consequences)



On the referendum, let the people decide has been a method of subduing division within his party for a decade,successive leaderships painted themselves into a corner not least to stop UKIp corroding their membership.  However, there was and is talk of a further treaty in which UK would be offered Associate membership...if that happens there is a constitutional imperative for a referendum, would have been pressure for other EUropean states to lance anti EU sentiment ahead of that referendum as a No would road block the treaty across the whole continent (sort of, Ireland and France secured very little change to previous treaties before being told to vote again)- Would if happened also be interesting, as we would by then clearly know how much of Cameron's "reforms" had been implemented.

On Cameron being finished, regardless of the result, I agree.  Gone on 22nd July.   They will want to get to the parliamentary recess before launching what could be a difficult leadership battle.


----------



## andysays (Apr 16, 2016)

gosub said:


> On the referendum, let the people decide has been a method of subduing division within his party for a decade,successive leaderships painted themselves into a corner not least to stop UKIp corroding their membership.  However, there was and is talk of a further treaty in which UK would be offered Associate membership...if that happens there is a constitutional imperative for a referendum, would have been pressure for other EUropean states to lance anti EU sentiment ahead of that referendum as a No would road block the treaty across the whole continent (sort of, Ireland and France secured very little change to previous treaties before being told to vote again)- Would if happened also be interesting, as we would by then clearly know how much of Cameron's "reforms" had been implemented.
> 
> On Cameron being finished, regardless of the result, I agree.  Gone on 22nd July.   They will want to get to the parliamentary recess before launching what could be a difficult leadership battle.



I accept that those are reasons why he felt having a referendum was a good idea/would get him and his party out of the difficulty of having to reach agreement themselves, but I still say that the decision to have a referendum at the time and in the way we're having it was basically his to make or not make. 

To suggest, as killer b appears to be doing, that he didn't have a choice, seems to me to be totally incorrect, but also to Cameron off the hook for making a decision which looks (even if the vote still ends up being to remain) to have been a disaster from his point of view.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 16, 2016)

I think the point is this lovely war would have been happening earlier than this if he hadn't put it to the long grass (as it seemed) and thus kept the ranks quiet plus keep ukip quietish. But now its here and we can all get some small pleasure from it.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Some folk with pretty big followings on twitter have been doing their bit to publicise this story, notably Jukes & Natalie Rowe.




Bye bye.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 16, 2016)

gosub said:


> On Cameron being finished, regardless of the result, I agree.  Gone on 22nd July.




 at that date. If he's going tp go *that* promptly, surely as soon as within the week starting Monday 27th June??


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2016)

Can't even face the swivel-eyed fraternity...he's toast.


----------



## gosub (Apr 17, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> at that date. If he's going tp go *that* promptly, surely as soon as within the week starting Monday 27th June??


who do you suggest as interim (official replacement would take months to sort out, membership ballots and shit)  to survive 3 weeks of potential no confidence vote?


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2016)

andysays said:


> Because he is and was the Prime Minister and the leader of his party. There was no constitutional necessity, it was a choice based on his judgement of the political advantage to be gained by promising to do so.
> 
> If you're suggesting he *didn't* have a choice, which you appear to be doing here and have done before, I suggest you need to back that up.
> 
> (I'm not suggesting the decision was 100% his with no input from anyone else, BTW, but in the end it was his decision, and he will be held personally responsible for the consequences)


Jeremy corbyn is leader of the labour party, yet he isn't able to dictate policy either. Politics is a negotiation, and cameron is in a weak position, and has to give concessions to his party to maintain it. His government has a very small majority, his party is heavily split in parliament and the majority of the membership are against him. Do you imagine they would have stayed quiet, had he refused the referendum? 

You have it the wrong way round. The tories aren't falling apart over Europe because of the referendum: The referendum is happening because the tories are falling apart over Europe.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 17, 2016)

gosub said:


> who do you suggest as interim (official replacement would take months to sort out, membership ballots and shit)  to survive 3 weeks of potential no confidence vote?




Their probem, not mine. I was just surprised at the date you mentioned (22 July), seemed a bit random.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 17, 2016)

David Cameron should play no part in negotiations after Brexit, Tory MP says



			
				Telegraph said:
			
		

> David Cameron should play no part in negotiations to leave the EU if the country votes for Brexit, a leading Tory MP has said.
> 
> David Davis, the former shadow home secretary, said the Prime Minister should remain in post if there is an Out vote but be barred from taking part in the talks.
> 
> ...



So, he could stay on as PM but not lead/be involved any discussions?! I can't see that working out for long 

(I had to use google cache for that - I didn't realise the Torygraph now had a free article limit/subscription model online).


----------



## gosub (Apr 17, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> (I had to use google cache for that - I didn't realise the Torygraph now had a free article limit/subscription model online).



Incognito mode borks it.


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Can't even face the swivel-eyed fraternity...he's toast.





Shouldn't say it but what did these women see in him?


----------



## laptop (Apr 18, 2016)

Oooh, Google suggests there's a superinjunction!

Search for *"Stephanie Hudson, " Whittingdale* => Google web search UK court order confidential :: Notices :: Lumen


----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2016)

laptop said:


> Oooh, Google suggests there's a superinjunction!
> 
> Search for *"Stephanie Hudson, " Whittingdale* => Google web search UK court order confidential :: Notices :: Lumen


Eh?


----------



## teqniq (Apr 18, 2016)

John Whittingdale makes David Cameron look a lame duck


----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2016)

Almost impossible to keep this thread up-to-date now. 
Is this peak 'blue on blue', or will it get even better?


----------



## Sue (Apr 18, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Almost impossible to keep this thread up-to-date now.
> Is this peak 'blue on blue', or will it get even better?


Well there's still bloody ages until the referendum so plenty of time for more backstabbing/frontstabbing/stabbing in general.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 18, 2016)

Those are pretty much my thoughts, in fact I think it could get even uglier in the run-up to and just after the referendum.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 18, 2016)

In one corner, Tebbit having a pop at Crabb...

The Government is doing everything in its power to rig the EU Referendum



			
				Telegraph said:
			
		

> Spare us another couple of months of hair-raising panic attacks by Remainers like Stephen Crabb for whom the days when the British people used to make their own laws and elect their own governments where back in the dark ages, indeed before he had even started school.
> 
> Beware of the reckless fools who advocate Brexit, he warns us. Should we leave the EU he says, our unemployment rate would soar to match those in Greece and Spain. What is more, he quotes all those wise men of the grand economic forecasting who failed to see the last great financial crisis coming, but kept their jobs to get it wrong again.
> 
> ...



And in another corner, Redwood having a pop back at Osborne...

Even Brexit would not cut high migration admits Treasury



			
				Indie said:
			
		

> Brexit campaigners who argue the UK could get a better trade deal with Europe outside of the EU are “economically illiterate” and dishonest, the Chancellor has claimed.
> 
> Singling out London Mayor Boris Johnson for advocating a “Canada-style” deal with Europe, which a Treasury analysis will claim would cost every UK household £4,300 by 2030, George Osborne said it was “not credible” to think Britain could maintain all the benefits of EU membership with none of the obligations.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sue (Apr 18, 2016)

I am also enjoying the Tory Brexiters banging on about how unfair and politically motivated it all is. Seem to recall they were all quite happy with such tactics during the independence referendum.

(Saying that, the pictures of Cameron, Clegg and Kinnock manning the phones together at some referendum thing did make me wonder if Labour had learned anything at all )


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 18, 2016)

Sue  : Kinnock was there more or less off his own bat, I reckon. I doubt Corbyn had much to do with that -- more likely Alan Johnson? 

Corbyn's own speech last week was pretty much the opposite of lining himself up with the Tories.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2016)

For a swivel-eyed, toryloon...this is quite good...


----------



## Sue (Apr 18, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> Sue  : Kinnock was there more or less off his own bat, I reckon. I doubt Corbyn had much to do with that -- more likely Alan Johnson?
> 
> Corbyn's own speech last week was pretty much the opposite of lining himself up with the Tories.


Doesn’t really matter who set it up. It was all over the TV news/papers and that's what people will remember.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 18, 2016)

It sort of does matter when you said that 'Labour' have learnt nothing from Indyref though. *Kinnock* might not have, but .....

I was only saying that I thought Corbyn's speech was more important.

No time for more.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2016)

Sue said:


> I am also enjoying the Tory Brexiters banging on about how unfair and politically motivated it all is. Seem to recall they were all quite happy with such tactics during the independence referendum.
> 
> (Saying that, the pictures of Cameron, Clegg and Kinnock manning the phones together at some referendum thing did make me wonder if Labour had learned anything at all )


'Project fear' vrs 'Project smear'.
What's not to like?


----------



## Sue (Apr 18, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> It sort of does matter when you said that 'Labour' have learnt nothing from Indyref though. *Kinnock* might not have, but .....
> 
> I was only saying that I thought Corbyn's speech was more important.
> 
> No time for more.


I reckon I keep up with the news and read the papers more than average. I can't remember what Corbyn said but I certainly remember the Cameron/Kinnock/Clegg thing.

I also remain to be convinced that Labour in Scotland have learned anything. Or anything important anyway.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2016)

Lordy...


----------



## teqniq (Apr 18, 2016)




----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Those are pretty much my thoughts, in fact I think it could get even uglier in the run-up to and just after the referendum.


Smithson agrees...


> *It’s in non-CON interests for the Tory battles to go on and on*
> A party at war is pretty sight if you are not a supporter. The way this first Monday of the official referendum campaign has gone isn’t doing the Tories any favours and it is going to go on and on.
> 
> It is an extraordinary spectacle. A Conservative Chancellor sets out projections of what BREXIT could cost and we see a huge effort from fellow Tories to both discredit the figures and the man itself.
> ...


----------



## J Ed (Apr 18, 2016)

Raises an interesting point, we haven't seen much 'nutpicking' of leave supporters like we have with Corbyn supporters and Cybernats, is that to come? You'd have to spend I don't know 5 seconds to find people on social media who support leave who are actively concerned about 'WHITE GENOCIDE'.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 18, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Raises an interesting point, we haven't seen much 'nutpicking' of leave supporters like we have with Corbyn supporters and Cybernats, is that to come? You'd have to spend I don't know 5 seconds to find people on social media who support leave who are actively concerned about 'WHITE GENOCIDE'.



But the whites are _always _genociding somewhere or other - it's their thing.
You'd be foolish not to be concerned.


----------



## gosub (Apr 18, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Lordy...



Thats not blue on blue thats more purple on blue.  One of their complaints about not getting designation was they didn't think vote Leave would go after the tories hard enough


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 19, 2016)

Sue said:


> I reckon I keep up with the news and read the papers more than average. I can't remember what Corbyn said but I certainly remember the Cameron/Kinnock/Clegg thing.
> 
> I also remain to be convinced that Labour in Scotland have learned anything. Or anything important anyway.



Was the Cameron/Kinnock picture getting that much wider coverage in Scotland because of the Indyref parallel being pointed out a lot?

TBF I think it appeared all over the media everywhere though.

That said, the Corbyn speech got quite a lot of attention too, maybe just on the BBC and Guardian though, perhaps? And maybe not so much in Scotland?

As for Labour learning anything on Scotland, I know next to nothing. From down here though, I'd suspect that it simply doesn't matter whether they learn or change or don't, surely they're so unpopular in Scotland anyway. and the SNP so popular, that no-one's going to give Labour the time of day whatever they do.

But we're digressing from the Tory Civil War thing ....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 19, 2016)

brogdale said:


>



I hadn't seen the beginning of this thread till just now - something of the drop-the-mic about this pic


----------



## Sue (Apr 19, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> Was the Cameron/Kinnock picture getting that much wider coverage in Scotland because of the Indyref parallel being pointed out a lot?
> 
> TBF I think it appeared all over the media everywhere though.
> 
> ...



I'm Scottish but live in London so I'm going on the media I saw down here. I also rely on the BBC (mainly R4) for news and read the Guardian  so....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 19, 2016)

Sue said:


> I'm Scottish but live in London



Commiserations


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 19, 2016)

The Conservative Party may be destroyed by this European madness

Well do we hope


----------



## teqniq (Apr 22, 2016)

Boris Johnson, what a nasty piece of work he really is (yes it does bear repeating):

Boris Johnson suggests 'part-Kenyan' Obama may have an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain



> Boris Johnson has criticised the US president Barack Obama and suggested his attitude to Britain might be based on his “part-Kenyan” heritage and “ancestral dislike of the British empire”....



So I suppose, Boris that it's all ok with you, what was done to the Kenyan people during and before the Mau Mau uprising by the British Empire hmmm?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Boris Johnson, what a nasty piece of work he really is (yes it does bear repeating):
> 
> Boris Johnson suggests 'part-Kenyan' Obama may have an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain
> 
> ...


Jesus, new depths of _Trump_etry.

It's led to more blue-on-blue...


----------



## marty21 (Apr 22, 2016)

I think Farage said that Obama was the most anti British President in history ! 

Bold claim  I reckon Washington is in with a shout for that title , and James Madison too when his house got burned


----------



## teqniq (Apr 22, 2016)

Yeah the Soames response is in the Indy article too.


----------



## YouSir (Apr 22, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Boris Johnson, what a nasty piece of work he really is (yes it does bear repeating):
> 
> Boris Johnson suggests 'part-Kenyan' Obama may have an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain
> 
> So I suppose, Boris that it's all ok with you, what was done to the Kenyan people during and before the Mau Mau uprising by the British Empire hmmm?



Did the US not fight quite a big war against the British Empire? So presumably they'd all have that 'ancestral dislike' thing going on, right?


----------



## gosub (Apr 22, 2016)

Was planning to start a nice friendly petition on whitehouse.gov calling for the US to ratify its membership of the International Criminal Court (as anybody can). Having our allies on the same page when they drag us towards war might be handy, probably (ask me after Chilcot publishes), and Trump trying to use torture as a vote winner-be reassuring to get that off the table - sadly looking at it and what else is going on in the States this week (Saudi) think its more likey it it would just provoke the US to further amend ASPA (in addition to rethinking their petition rules)


----------



## J Ed (Apr 22, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Boris Johnson, what a nasty piece of work he really is (yes it does bear repeating):
> 
> Boris Johnson suggests 'part-Kenyan' Obama may have an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain
> 
> ...



Wow. I wonder if this dogwhistle is part of the start of his leadership campaign


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Wow. I wonder if this dogwhistle is part of the start of his leadership campaign


Yep, and another element in his continuing metamorphosis into 'our' Trump.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 22, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Yep, and another element in his continuing metamorphosis into 'our' Trump.



I can't see him doing the pretend economic populism bit personally, then again maybe a Brit version of Trump doesn't need to.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2016)

The swivel-eyed have really riled old fatty today...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I can't see him doing the pretend economic populism bit personally, then again maybe a Brit version of Trump doesn't need to.


Probably not; "...and who's gonna pay for that wall? FRANCE!!" will almost certainly suffice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Wow. I wonder if this dogwhistle is part of the start of his leadership campaign


well goldsmith already bagsied the thinly vieled sectarianism.


----------



## gosub (Apr 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Wow. I wonder if this dogwhistle is part of the start of his leadership campaign



when DotCommunist made the same point last week :





DotCommunist said:


> well, that and remembers that the empiah tortured his grandad during the mau mau times


 I don't think it was "dog whistle". 
  It is however playing the man not the ball, I think it is US interests for UK to be in EU : UK dampens anti US sentiment within EU (as deGaulle feared). And its not hypocritical either: not while UK citizens can petition the White House


----------



## J Ed (Apr 22, 2016)

gosub said:


> when DotCommunist made the same point last week : I don't think it was "dog whistle".
> It is however playing the man not the ball, I think it is US interests for UK to be in EU : UK dampens anti US sentiment within EU (as deGaulle feared). And its not hypocritical either: not while UK citizens can petition the White House



Nah, the half-Kenyan comment is an obvious allusion not just to an imagined Anglophobia but also to the birther conspiracy theory racism.


----------



## gosub (Apr 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Nah, the half-Kenyan comment is an obvious allusion not just to an imagined Anglophobia but also to the birther conspiracy theory racism.



I don't think it was imagined, the France greatest ally, and the snub over the deskset (you have to go some to make me feel for Gordon Brown).   Do think he mellowed as time went on.

"half-Kenyan"- he's a quarter isn't he?1 granddad.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 22, 2016)

It's almost as if he means black rather than Kenyan.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> It's almost as if he means black rather than Kenyan.


'picaninny watermelon smiles'
safe to assume he''s a closet racist of the carol thatcher mode. Rich and stupid enough to slip up now and then but he gets away with it cos boris lol whereas carol thatcher is loathesome to _everyone_ anyway so lost the presenting gig.


----------



## killer b (Apr 22, 2016)

I was just reading about jolly Boris as it happens - interesting article if you can be arsed: The camouflage of conspicuity—Tristam Vivian Adams on psychopathy and sociopathy – Repeater Books


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2016)

J Ed said:


> It's almost as if he means black rather than Kenyan.


shurely keenyan


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Boris Johnson, what a nasty piece of work he really is (yes it does bear repeating):
> 
> Boris Johnson suggests 'part-Kenyan' Obama may have an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain
> 
> ...


perhaps he wouldn't mind if it was done to him and his


----------



## gosub (Apr 22, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps he wouldn't mind if it was done to him and his



I don't think our little rebellion against the EUropean empire is going to come to that. (touch wood)


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2016)

killer b said:


> I was just reading about jolly Boris as it happens - interesting article if you can be arsed: The camouflage of conspicuity—Tristam Vivian Adams on psychopathy and sociopathy – Repeater Books


I'm sure clarkson and johnson would just love the third example they share a page with here, but yes interesting. Might have to buy the savile book mentioned, looks like its a decent read


----------



## andysays (Apr 22, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Boris Johnson, what a nasty piece of work he really is (yes it does bear repeating):
> 
> Boris Johnson suggests 'part-Kenyan' Obama may have an 'ancestral dislike' of Britain



Shouldn't that headline read

"Part Turkish, part Swiss, part French, part German, part Russian, part Jewish Boris Johnson suggests etc"

(just in the interests of completeness and to point out that Johnson using Obama's heritage to question his motives could be thought of as a touch hypocritical, not because I think there's anything wrong with being any or all of those, I hasten to add)


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2016)

andysays said:


> "Part Turkish, part Swiss, part French, part German, part Russian, part Jewish....


...but full-fat cunt.


----------



## andysays (Apr 22, 2016)

brogdale said:


> ...but full-fat cunt.



I was wondering about including that, but I knew I could rely on someone else to provide the punchline


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 22, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> shurely keenyan



Surely Quinyan?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Surely Quinyan?


queenyan


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2016)

Looks like the vermin have been on the pop....


----------



## brogdale (Apr 25, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> I hadn't seen the beginning of this thread till just now - something of the drop-the-mic about this pic


There's worse...


Spoiler: Compulsory academisation


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 25, 2016)

Nicky Morgan faces humiliating u-turn on forced academies over 40 Tory MP revolt


----------



## stavros (Apr 25, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Looks like the vermin have been on the pop....




Michael Ashcroft is well ahead of the rest of us... He left Europe years ago for his tax haven in Belize.


----------



## laptop (Apr 25, 2016)

Maybe this should be on an EU thread, but: 

Home Secretary Theresa May has said the UK should quit the European Convention on Human Rights while remaining in the European Union

Home Secretary doesn't understand Home Secretary job shock.

Can't be done, unless someone has a creative reading of the Lisbon Treaty that I've missed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2016)

laptop said:


> Maybe this should be on an EU thread, but:
> 
> Home Secretary Theresa May has said the UK should quit the European Convention on Human Rights while remaining in the European Union
> 
> ...



IIRC we still have the "right" to resile from specific clauses in the convention, but there's no mechanism for withdrawal.


----------



## laptop (Apr 25, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> IIRC we still have the "right" to resile from specific clauses in the convention, but there's no mechanism for withdrawal.



I think so - the UK has "resiled" from one, or maybe two.

Also, she seems to have forgotten the sense in which the Convention was the project of... Winston Churchill.


----------



## gosub (Apr 26, 2016)

laptop said:


> I think so - the UK has "resiled" from one, or maybe two.
> 
> Also, she seems to have forgotten the sense in which the Convention was the project of... Winston Churchill.



What she REALLY seems to hav forgotten is the last year of bollocks renegotiation, might have made sense to mention it then.

As it is, more try and ride two horses ahead of a leadership election


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2016)

Seconds out, round 2...


----------



## brogdale (May 14, 2016)

There's such _L'Embarras des richesses _that I keep over-looking to post here...but, this took my eye...


----------



## stavros (May 15, 2016)

Said by a true expert in the art.


----------



## brogdale (May 17, 2016)

Oh wow! Inter-generational blue-on-blue!


> Lord Heseltine has said he would be "very surprised" if Boris Johnson became prime minister after his "preposterous, obscene" remarks.....(and) said Mr Johnson was "losing his judgement".



​


----------



## J Ed (May 17, 2016)

Farage predicting more conflict in Tory party even if remain wins


----------



## Teaboy (May 17, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Oh wow! Inter-generational blue-on-blue!
> 
> 
> ​



Cheer lead an openly racist election campaign and its "rough and tumble of politics" but mumble some irrelevant and bizarre stuff about Hitler and you're making "preposterous and obscene remarks".

Funny load these tories.


----------



## brogdale (May 17, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> Cheer lead an openly racist election campaign and its "rough and tumble of politics" but mumble some irrelevant and bizarre stuff about Hitler and you're making "preposterous and obscene remarks".
> 
> Funny load these tories.


The 'partners' in the coalition that is the tory party really do hate each other.


----------



## J Ed (May 17, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> Cheer lead an openly racist election campaign and its "rough and tumble of politics" but mumble some irrelevant and bizarre stuff about Hitler and you're making "preposterous and obscene remarks".
> 
> Funny load these tories.



It doesn't matter what you say if you are a 'sensible' 'respectable' 'moderate' as the entire media will defend whatever you say and the reverse is true if you aren't seen in those highly subjective terms.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 18, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Oh wow! Inter-generational blue-on-blue!
> 
> 
> ​



Christ is he still alive? I always wanted him to be Tory leader, just because he looked so wonderfully stereotypically Tory and posh.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 18, 2016)

the serco stuff is hair-pulling annoying. How do they and atos and g4s and crapita keep geeting the latest privatised gig? oh. Heres how


----------



## Libertad (May 18, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the serco stuff is hair-pulling annoying. How do they and atos and g4s and crapita keep geeting the latest privatised gig? oh. Heres how



Show me dammit


----------



## DotCommunist (May 18, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Show me dammit


Leaked letter 'shows how David Cameron plotted against Leave'


----------



## Libertad (May 18, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Leaked letter 'shows how David Cameron plotted against Leave'



Thanks. Murky stuff, palm greasing shysters.


----------



## teqniq (May 18, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Show me dammit


Also

Photographic history of Bullingdon Club tracked down - including new


----------



## treelover (May 18, 2016)

Cameron at the Centre of the Bullingdon Club


VERSA | Revealed: new Bullingdon photos featuring high spirits, high society, and one very high-up politician...

I think the new sketches are heavily copyrighted.


----------



## Libertad (May 18, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Also
> 
> Photographic history of Bullingdon Club tracked down - including new



Photo shows:


> Rupert Soames, the head of the outsourcing giant Serco, which operates the Yarl’s Wood Immigration Removal Centre.


----------



## teqniq (May 18, 2016)

Precisely.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 18, 2016)

when its that tight you don't even have to do a shakedown- you offer your help to 'good old pig fucker dave' or whatever they called him in the day. The reciprocal gladhanding of contracts to run (badly) whatever bits the political wing of the oligarchy carve off of public ownership next is just a given.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 18, 2016)

Fantastically corrupt.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 18, 2016)

treelover said:


> Cameron at the Centre of the Bullingdon Club
> 
> 
> VERSA | Revealed: new Bullingdon photos featuring high spirits, high society, and one very high-up politician...
> ...



Who's the big fat cunt sitting next to the little cunt?


----------



## Libertad (May 18, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> Who's the big fat cunt sitting next to the little cunt?



Some cunt or other.


----------



## gosub (May 19, 2016)

*Eurosceptic Tories lead Common's rebellion*
More than 25 Eurosceptic Tories will lead a rebellion which could lead to the first Government defeat on a Queen's Speech since 1924.

The Conservative  MPs are expected to join forces with Labour and the SNP in supporting an amendment to explicitly protect the National Health Service from an EU trade deal with the US.

It follows claims that the deal, called the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, could lead to the privatisation of parts of the NHS.

The amendment expresses regret that "a Bill to protect the National Health Service from the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership was not included in the Gracious Speech.
EU referendum: 25 Tory rebels join forces with Labour to defeat Government over Queen's Speech


----------



## nino_savatte (May 19, 2016)

gosub said:


> *Eurosceptic Tories lead Common's rebellion*
> More than 25 Eurosceptic Tories will lead a rebellion which could lead to the first Government defeat on a Queen's Speech since 1924.
> 
> The Conservative  MPs are expected to join forces with Labour and the SNP in supporting an amendment to explicitly protect the National Health Service from an EU trade deal with the US.
> ...


----------



## gosub (May 20, 2016)

The Tory civil war


----------



## brogdale (May 20, 2016)

If you missed it, Peter Oborne's performance on 'Newsnight' was quite entertaining...in a slightly pished, over-bearing pub-bore sort of way.

One memorable line...


> *Cameron talks bollocks.*


----------



## brogdale (May 22, 2016)

Reckon Fatty's been spending too long reading threads on here...






"F*** off, you c***." 
Any guesses?


----------



## laptop (May 22, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Reckon Fatty's been spending too long reading threads on here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Fawn off, you clot" ?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 22, 2016)

i've just found myself agreeing with nicholas soames about something

*feels worried*


----------



## brogdale (May 22, 2016)

Puddy_Tat said:


> i've just found myself agreeing with nicholas soames about something
> 
> *feels worried*



That's the trouble with all this blue-on-blue, you occasionally find yourself agreeing with a vermin; un-nerving experience.
Fatty's certainly putting it about today...


----------



## free spirit (May 22, 2016)

Just noticed I've been blocked by Nicholas Soames on twitter, apparently he didn't appreciate a previous response a while back about trident.

I assume I'm not missing much?

[/derail]


----------



## brogdale (May 23, 2016)

free spirit said:


> Just noticed I've been blocked by Nicholas Soames on twitter, apparently he didn't appreciate a previous response a while back about trident.
> 
> I assume I'm not missing much?
> 
> [/derail]


He blocks anyone who asks his questions that challenge his vermin world-view; very cowardly.


----------



## brogdale (May 23, 2016)

Is this "_blue-on-blue-on-blue_*" *?


----------



## nino_savatte (May 24, 2016)

This is from the Daily Heil, which reports that "dozens of Tory MPs are threatening a vote of no confidence" over Cameron's handling of the EU referendum. Is it possible that the government could, er, bring itself down?


> Dozens of Tory MPs are threatening to topple David Cameron over his handling of the EU referendum.
> 
> In the wake of the latest Brexit ‘dodgy’ dossier row, senior party figures said he would have to name a date for his departure if he wanted to avoid a massive bloodletting.
> 
> ...


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 24, 2016)

I'll wait for a newspaper to report it before I believe it.


----------



## Teaboy (May 24, 2016)

Dunno.  The slippery shit would probably carry a vote of no confidence by means of labour abstaining.

ETA: Anyway a vote of no confidence in Cameron is all very different to a vote of no confidence in the government.


----------



## gosub (May 24, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> This is from the Daily Heil, which reports that "dozens of Tory MPs are threatening a vote of no confidence" over Cameron's handling of the EU referendum. Is it possible that the government could, er, bring itself down?



The 5 year fixed term mess, coupled with MP's self interest,I think it would be last week of term (coz they are increasingly coming across as a bunch of school kids (even if they are older than me)) before they did that.  3 weeks after the referendum iirc


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 24, 2016)

it would be nice, but ive been told so many times that we are stuck with them until the next ref due to legistation brought in by the coalition, how would it be achievable ?


----------



## killer b (May 24, 2016)

A vote of no confidence in the government, and them then being unable to muster a vote of confidence for a set amount of time  (10 days?)


----------



## Dogsauce (May 24, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> how would it be achievable ?



CK500, cardboard, plastic,waste, baler, compactor MILL SIZE !!

I reckon you'd easily get 19 tory MPs in one of those, using the right sort of bait.  Get a kickstarter going.


----------



## killer b (May 24, 2016)

14 days.

This blog has the necessary details

Under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, a minority Government doesn’t need a ‘confidence and supply’ arrangement to be able to govern


----------



## DotCommunist (May 24, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> CK500, cardboard, plastic,waste, baler, compactor MILL SIZE !!
> 
> I reckon you'd easily get 19 tory MPs in one of those, using *the right sort of bait*.  Get a kickstarter going.


Kids? free money?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 24, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Kids? free money?



Secretaries / oranges / pigs...

Actually, just tell them it's where the off switch for the NHS is hidden.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 24, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> it would be nice, but ive been told so many times that we are stuck with them until the next ref due to legistation brought in by the coalition, how would it be achievable ?


Theoretically it would be achievable as killer b points out, but it's never going to happen. Absolute twaddle.


----------



## stavros (May 24, 2016)

Oddly, but perhaps indicative of the apparently savage civil war between Greig and Dacre, the Fail on Sunday had a seemingly pro-Europe headline at the weekend; _High St bosses: prices to soar if we quit EU_. 

A fight to the hopefully mutual death.


----------



## brogdale (May 24, 2016)

Ouch!


----------



## gosub (May 24, 2016)

stavros said:


> Oddly, but perhaps indicative of the apparently savage civil war between Greig and Dacre, the Fail on Sunday had a seemingly pro-Europe headline at the weekend; _High St bosses: prices to soar if we quit EU_.
> 
> A fight to the hopefully mutual death.


Mail is out Mail on Sunday in,  been so for a while


----------



## gosub (May 24, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Theoretically it would be achievable as killer b points out, but it's never going to happen. Absolute twaddle.


Not sure I'd risk it,  it would take more than ten days to put the Tory party back together... A Leadership over the summer however...


----------



## nino_savatte (May 25, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> I'll wait for a newspaper to report it before I believe it.


Pienaar also reported it on BBC's Ten O'Clock News. Get yer popcorn out!


----------



## nino_savatte (May 25, 2016)

Of course, if there's a no confidence motion against Cameron, he merely gets replaced with another muppet.


----------



## stethoscope (May 25, 2016)

David Cameron could be removed as Prime Minister within months by his own MPs

Tory MP accuses Osborne of 'planning to break law' over EU referendum

Carry on Conservatives...


----------



## gosub (May 25, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> Of course, if there's a no confidence motion against Cameron, he merely gets replaced with another muppet.



Which one steps into the breach ahead of a leadership contest that involves the whole membership.  
(You have ten days to work it out..)<not literally


----------



## Teaboy (May 25, 2016)

gosub said:


> Which one steps into the breach ahead of a leadership contest that involves the whole membership.
> (You have ten days to work it out..)<not literally



I reckon it would be May and she has positioned herself for exactly that eventuality. Osborn is to closely aligned to Cameron and remain and Johnson simply doesn't have enough friends or supporters.  May is the obvious unifying candidate not that the tories ever are really unified.


----------



## gosub (May 25, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> I reckon it would be May and she has positioned herself for exactly that eventuality. Osborn is to closely aligned to Cameron and remain and Johnson simply doesn't have enough friends or supporters.  May is the obvious unifying candidate not that the tories ever are really unified.


Then why put herself up as the caretaker...


----------



## Teaboy (May 25, 2016)

gosub said:


> Then why put herself up as the caretaker...



Leader in waiting. But, it doesn't really matter.  I don't think Cameron will be going anywhere for a while if remain wins.  As that indy article points out he can just name a date some point into the future.


----------



## gosub (May 25, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> Leader in waiting. But, it doesn't really matter.  I don't think Cameron will be going anywhere for a while if remain wins.  As that indy article points out he can just name a date some point into the future.



I'd say Summer holidays stops things festering, allows for party machinations, without all the 5 year fixed term malarkey getting in the way


----------



## stavros (May 25, 2016)

gosub said:


> Mail is out Mail on Sunday in,  been so for a while



Interesting. I wonder if coming out will fuck Harmsworth's little tax arrangement (tells HMRC he lives in France, actually lives in Dorset or Wiltshire).

Boris v Dave: The Battle for Europe starting on C4 in just under an hour.


----------



## gosub (May 25, 2016)

stavros said:


> Interesting. I wonder if coming out will fuck Harmsworth's little tax arrangement (tells HMRC he lives in France, actually lives in Dorset or Wiltshire).
> 
> Boris v Dave: The Battle for Europe starting on C4 in just under an hour.


now theres an excuse to get back to studying for the exam I have next week


----------



## stavros (May 25, 2016)

Hopefully there'll be mention of the joyous friendly days they used to have, wreaking carnage on the restaurants of Oxford.


----------



## brogdale (May 26, 2016)

Hitting where it hurts...


----------



## two sheds (May 26, 2016)

330,000 *is* 10s of thousands, 33 of them


----------



## brogdale (May 26, 2016)

two sheds said:


> 330,000 *is* 10s of thousands, 33 of them


You should email Crosby, they might be able to use that line!


----------



## stavros (May 26, 2016)

C4 had interviews with many of the most powerful people in the Tories over the last 25 years who, whilst they may have been at times lying will at least have seen it all happen at points.

It also had Isabel Oakeshott.


----------



## brogdale (May 26, 2016)

Apols for image of Sun front page...but...



This fella's gonna have to defect after the ref.


----------



## brogdale (May 26, 2016)

Hilarious blue-on-blue handbags following that tweet as "Sir" Oliver Heald tries to tick Jackson off for his disloyalty!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 26, 2016)




----------



## Sue (May 27, 2016)

Chris Patten's just been slagging off Boris Johnson on Newsnight. Now Jacob Rees-Mogg's sticking the knife into Patten (as ineffectually as he seems to do most things). 

Eta He just used the word 'charabanc'. Man of the people (circa 1923).


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 27, 2016)

Rees Mogg really does deserve a hoofing - the posh cunt.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 28, 2016)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Rees Mogg really does deserve a hoofing - the posh cunt.


One shall get one's valet right onto that


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2016)

Looks like MadNad's started the weekend early...


----------



## laptop (May 28, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Looks like MadNad's started the weekend early...



And you're not part of it, Nads?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2016)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Rees Mogg really does deserve a hoofing - the posh cunt.


he's a pencil necked cunt


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> he's a pencil necked cunt



tbh, I think my local vermin specimen actually out-does Mogg in that dept.


----------



## NoXion (May 28, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> he's a pencil necked cunt



I once saw a video of him speaking in Parliament (I think it was the one where he used the word "floccinaucinihilipilification", a word I had to Google), and I honestly had trouble understanding him. The dude lives in a world so different to mine he might as well be a space alien.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 28, 2016)

NoXion said:


> I once saw a video of him speaking in Parliament (I think it was the one where he used the word "floccinaucinihilipilification", a word I had to Google), and I honestly had trouble understanding him. The dude lives in a world so different to mine he might as well be a space alien.



He seems quite likeable to me for some reason. I think its because when a person is _that_ posh, its like they have an affliction which you are obliged to feel pity for. In my mind he is some sort of weird, gangly, sad giraffeman - an experiment that went wrong.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2016)

always been repellant to me. A reminder of what sort of cunts are the tories inner cabal, its soul. Not bluff northern tories (arseholes as they are) nor bumpkins like my local. The ones so posh they can hardly fucking talk, thats the soul of em


----------



## NoXion (May 28, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> He seems quite likeable to me for some reason. I think its because when a person is _that_ posh, its like they have an affliction which you are obliged to feel pity for. In my mind he is some sort of weird, gangly, sad giraffeman - an experiment that went wrong.



Upper-class twits can be quite funny, if they don't make my fists itch or my head ache. I think it's a defence mechanism of some kind.


----------



## stavros (May 28, 2016)

I'm sure they avoided a Rees-Mogg-like character in The Thick Of It because it would have detracted from its realism.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2016)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> He seems quite likeable to me for some reason. I think its because when a person is _that_ posh, its like they have an affliction which you are obliged to feel pity for. In my mind he is some sort of weird, gangly, sad giraffeman - an experiment that went wrong.


If only the parents had taken precautions


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2016)

Goodness...


> Tory Leave campaigners Michael Gove and Boris Johnson have launched their most savage attack yet on David Cameron’s personal authority in the increasingly bitter EU referendum campaign.
> 
> In a blistering letter, seen by Sky News, the Justice Secretary and former London mayor claim the Prime Minister’s failure on his pledge to curb immigration is "corrosive of public trust".
> 
> The attack marks a dramatic escalation of the "blue-on-blue" Tory civil war triggered by the referendum campaign and confirms the Leave campaign plans to fight almost entirely on immigration between now and 23 June.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Best yet?


> ....employment minister Priti Patel accused the leaders of the remain camp with *“luxury” lifestyles like Cameron of being too rich to care about people’s concerns regarding migration*.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Scrub that.
The ST has this...





Flip me.


----------



## Libertad (May 29, 2016)

Unattributed though, could be bollocks.


----------



## J Ed (May 29, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Scrub that.
> The ST has this...
> 
> 
> ...



Just saw this on twitter. Last bit is, well, at the very least it is fucking disturbing that this is how these people talk.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Unattributed though, could be bollocks.


Utterly believable from a pished swivel-eyed loon.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Just saw this on twitter. Last bit is, well, at the very least it is fucking disturbing that this is how these people talk.


Disturbing wouldn't really cover it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Just saw this on twitter. Last bit is, well, at the very least it is fucking disturbing that this is how these people talk.



It's quite an established expression.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It's quite an established expression.


The last sentence?


----------



## J Ed (May 29, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It's quite an established expression.



It had entirely passed me by. Still, even if it is then when you consider the linkage of the Tories to paedophilia it is extraordinarily disturbing.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2016)

Yeah, heard it said many times over the years, specifically relating to ousting a politician. May have even heard it in Yes Minister?


----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2016)

Well I've never heard it before, perhaps i have led a sheltered life lol. I found it astonishingly revealing exactly how bitter and nasty the whole thing has become for the Tories.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2016)

Edwin Edwards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is the fella who first coined the phrase. He was later banged up for corruption.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Edwin Edwards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is the fella who first coined the phrase. He was later banged up for corruption.


From 1983.
Using the phrase in the context of on-going investigations would appear shockingly insensitive, but then we are talking about vermin.


----------



## newbie (May 29, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Goodness...
> ​



goodness indeed.  Until I read what this (obviously respected) former Prime Minister had to say I had no idea prominent Tories, including cabinet ministers, could behave like this.



> In his attack on the Leave campaign, Sir John _{Major}_ accuses its leading figures of "inaccuracies and falsehoods", "shameless distortion of the truth" and "a fraud on the British people" with claims such as £350m a week paid to the European Union.
> 
> "They have - knowingly - told untruths about the cost of Europe," he writes in the Mail on Sunday. "They have promised negotiating gains that cannot - and will not - be delivered.
> 
> "They have raised phantom fears that cannot be justified, puffing up their case with false statistics, unlikely scenarios and downright untruths. To mislead the British nation in this fashion - when its very future is at stake - is unforgivable."


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 29, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Scrub that.
> The ST has this...
> 
> 
> ...



"Yes Tarquin, a good scandal should do it."

"But sir, he hatefucked a dead pig in the face? It was across all the newspapers!"

"Not enough, Tarquin.  Not enough."


----------



## gosub (May 29, 2016)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> "Yes Tarquin, a good scandal should do it."
> 
> "But sir, he hatefucked a dead pig in the face? It was across all the newspapers!"
> 
> "Not enough, Tarquin.  Not enough."



They need one thats specific to him.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 29, 2016)

Andrew Bridgen :"Cameron is finished".
Senior Tory MP Andrew Bridgen says David Cameron is 'finished' as party leader

I like this paragraph.


> Mr Bridgen suggested that the new Tory leader would want to call a general election in the autumn in order to win a fresh mandate – and to increase the party’s majority in the Commons.



So, if Cameron is ousted they'll cheat again to increase that majority.


----------



## marty21 (May 29, 2016)

A lot of the Brexiteer Tories are rubbishing the economic forecasts from various organisations,  as it doesn't fit in with their Brexit fantasies.  It will be difficult for them to quote those same forecasts post Brexit , when they want to drone on about Tory financial competence but I'm sure they'll manage to..


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2016)

marty21 said:


> Tory financial competence


as gandhi said of western civilization, it might be a good idea


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2016)

gosub said:


> They need one thats specific to him.


what about a pig buggering cameron while they're both wearing boris johnson masks?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, heard it said many times over the years, specifically relating to ousting a politician. May have even heard it in Yes Minister?


edwin edwards 1983


----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> what about a pig buggering cameron while they're both wearing boris johnson masks?


I need some mind bleach now, please.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2016)

teqniq said:


> I need some mind bleach now, please.


marty21 will oblige


----------



## stethoscope (May 29, 2016)

Nadine Dorries says Cameron would be 'toast within days' if Britain voted to leave the EU



			
				Indie said:
			
		

> David Cameron will be “toast within days” if Britain votes to leave the European Union, a Tory MP has said as she called for a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister live on television.
> 
> The intervention by Nadine Dorries, Conservative MP for Mid Bedfordshire, comes amid an intense escalation of in-fighting in the party and bitter personal attacks over the referendum on June 23. Brexit heavyweights Michael Gove, Boris Johnson and Priti Patel all questioned the Prime Minister’s credibility.



Escalation of Tory division over Europe - BBC News



			
				BBC said:
			
		

> Anyone who's followed politics for any length of time knows no party's more prone to suicidal bouts of indiscipline than the Labour Party.
> 
> Unless, of course, it's the Conservative Party when it's in the mood.
> 
> Just now, the Tories are in more of a mood than they've been since the chaotic days of the Major administration, and possibly since 1990, the year the party hacked down Margaret Thatcher in an orgy of political regicide prompted, naturally, by DNA-deep divisions over Europe.


----------



## stethoscope (May 29, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> Andrew Bridgen :"Cameron is finished".



Bridgen continues to pile it on...

Conservatives 'so fractured over EU that fresh election needed'



			
				Gruaniad said:
			
		

> The Conservatives will have to hold a fresh election before Christmas under a new leader because the EU referendum campaign has fractured the party so badly, a rebel MP has claimed.
> 
> Andrew Bridgen made the bold claim as a fellow backbencher, Nadine Dorries, called for David Cameron to quit and the ministers leading the leave campaign launched some of their strongest personal attacks on the prime minister so far.
> 
> ...


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> Nadine Dorries says Cameron would be 'toast within days' if Britain voted to leave the EU
> 
> 
> Escalation of Tory division over Europe - BBC News


Those 'books' of hers must pay.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2016)

Aren't they forgetting the long term strategy of gerrymandering all the constituencies (the reduced parliament of 600) before they hold another election?


----------



## gosub (May 29, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Aren't they forgetting the long term strategy of gerrymandering all the constituencies (the reduced parliament of 600) before they hold another election?



The boundary changes would be hard to get through on their majority anyway.  Won't all be Labour seats, and that's someone, afterwards, in any other business you'd want gardening leave for.


----------



## stavros (May 29, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Scrub that.
> The ST has this...
> 
> 
> ...



According to the latest Eye the Sunday Telegraph had virtually no staff and is just filled with shite that didn't get into the daily.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

stavros said:


> According to the latest Eye the Sunday Telegraph had virtually no staff and is just filled with shite that didn't get into the daily.


Apologies if unclear; it was tweeted by Tim Shipman, the political editor of the Sunday Times.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Adds nothing new, but an amusing lead story/headline on the G online...







Keep it up vermin.


----------



## J Ed (May 29, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Adds nothing new, but an amusing lead story/headline on the G online...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hate to join the chorus here but good god this is getting a lot less coverage than much more minor inter-Labour squabbles


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I hate to join the chorus here but good god this is getting a lot less coverage than much more minor inter-Labour squabbles


Surprised?


----------



## J Ed (May 29, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Surprised?



Of course not, I do wonder whether this stuff is getting more obvious or whether I am more aware of it though


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Of course not, I do wonder whether this stuff is getting more obvious or whether I am more aware of it though


----------



## jakethesnake (May 29, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Of course not, I do wonder whether this stuff is getting more obvious or whether I am more aware of it though


Definitely more obvious. We are held in such contempt by the ruling class that they can hardly be bothered to disguise their machinations any more.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Open goal...







...back of the net!


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I hate to join the chorus here but good god this is getting a lot less coverage than much more minor inter-Labour squabbles



Note also that the BBC article earlier in the day was basically prefaced by "infighting is something we usually expect from the Labour Party".


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Note also that the BBC article earlier in the day was basically prefaced by "infighting is something we usually expect from the Labour Party".


State broadcaster suffers cognitive dissonance.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2016)

...and Cash makes up the threesome..



> A third Tory MP has broken cover and said he is ready to demand David Cameron goes unless he tones down attacks in the EU referendum as a leadership coup erupted in public yesterday.
> 
> Sir Bill Cash, who chairs the European Scrutiny committee, told The Telegraph he has grown infuriated by the Prime Minister’s “monumentally misleading propaganda” and demanded a more conciliatory tone.



​


----------



## two sheds (May 29, 2016)

I demand a more conciliatory tone you bastard.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 30, 2016)

brogdale said:


> ...and Cash makes up the threesome..
> 
> 
> 
> ​


----------



## Libertad (May 30, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Note also that the BBC article earlier in the day was basically prefaced by "infighting is something we usually expect from the Labour Party".



Pienaar, it's what he's paid for, the cunt.


----------



## brogdale (May 31, 2016)

Ouch..again..


----------



## newbie (May 31, 2016)

there's hopefully an opening for Middle East Envoy and bestie to dictators coming soon.


----------



## stavros (May 31, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Ouch..again..




My respect for Dave would soar if he took Belize back under full UK rule, including tax payments.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2016)




----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2016)

He really is a bitter man isn't he?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 2, 2016)

He paid all the money and didn't even get a receipt or what he bought, I'd be upset as well.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> He paid all the money and didn't even get a receipt or what he bought, I'd be upset as well.


it's one thing to piss away a tenner, quite another to piss away ten million


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> it's one thing to piss away a tenner, quite another to piss away ten million


for a billionair I recon the slight will have stung more. Not used to being taken for a cunt


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> for a billionair I recon the slight will have stung more. Not used to being taken for a cunt


don't see why not, he's a tory after all


----------



## stavros (Jun 2, 2016)

If there's one man who knows how to get elected to the Houses of Parliament it's Lord Ashcr...

oh


----------



## brogdale (Jun 3, 2016)

So Dunked-in-Shit calls the pig-fucker a liar....



> I’m astonished at these comments, which are deeply insincere, and *a clear attempt to deceive the British public*. The truth is that for as long as we are a member of the European Union we are powerless to control the number of people coming to this country.


Beyond irony.


----------



## Sue (Jun 3, 2016)

Gove says the Vote In campaign think we're too wee, too poor and too stupid to run our own affairs. Funny to hear him pretty much quote Alex Salmond.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 5, 2016)

Major's after those bastards, again.



> In an extraordinary attack on his fellow Conservatives, Major produced a withering assessment of leading members of Vote Leave, calling their campaign *deceitful, untrue, depressing, awful and verging on the squalid*.


The swivel-eyed twitter fraternity don't seem best pleased.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 5, 2016)

> he went on to claim Gove had wanted to privatise the NHS, Johnson wished to charge people for health services and Duncan Smith advocated moving to a social insurance system.


 


> “The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python,” Major said on BBC1’s The Andrew Marr Show.


----------



## Sue (Jun 5, 2016)

I'm pretty bored of the referendum stuff but I am enjoying the ongoing blue on blue action.

(Squalid. )


----------



## two sheds (Jun 5, 2016)

> David Cameron has vowed to make Leave campaigners like Boris Johnson “pay” for their claims about Britain's economic prospects outside the European Union.



I'll make Brexit camp pay for their ‘nonsense on stilts,’ says Cameron

I can't wait


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 5, 2016)

has he just seen boris in the audience?


----------



## two sheds (Jun 5, 2016)

> In a revealing insight into how the referendum campaign is playing out at home, Mr Cameron said wife Samantha “sees the Leave argument as very backward-looking, trying to recreate something that isn't there any more”.
> 
> Daughter Nancy, 12, has also thrown her support behind the Remain campaign. He said: “She wants to know how it's going and thinks In is the right answer.



I was wavering but ok that's me convinced.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2016)

sort of wish samantha had in a surreal twist turned to the leave campaign and starts publicly batting for brexit. Level the debates have sunk to means she'd be publicly doing that crooked little finger sign that indicates microdick via sign language


----------



## marty21 (Jun 5, 2016)

The Express saying that Gove's odds on being the next PM have been slashed  . If you got all your news from the Express you might even believe it.


----------



## stavros (Jun 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> sort of wish samantha had in a surreal twist turned to the leave campaign



Boris is no doubt working on it.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2016)

Good innit?



Did any of us really expect the factional 'warfare' to become this visceral & open?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2016)

Leavists send out Mogg to savage Major...


> Rees-Mogg told BBC Radio 4’s Westminster Hour: “What we’ve had today are *the bitter ramblings of a vengeful man.*
> 
> “He is the man that who took us into the Exchange Rate Mechanism, destroyed hundreds of thousands of jobs, had people evicted from their homes and led to the destruction of businesses for the sake of his failed European policy,” he said.
> 
> “I’m going to sling the mud straight back at Sir John Major, a knight of the garter who ought to know how to behave better.”


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Leavists send out Mogg to savage Major...



...its a right carry on...


----------



## andysays (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Good innit?
> 
> Did any of us really expect the factional 'warfare' to become this visceral & open?



For once, hope really does triumph over expectation


----------



## JimW (Jun 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> sort of wish samantha had in a surreal twist turned to the leave campaign and starts publicly batting for brexit. Level the debates have sunk to means she'd be publicly doing that crooked little finger sign that indicates microdick via sign language


The young Cameron traumatised about leave after the incident in the pub.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Leavists send out Mogg to savage Major...
> ​


The phrase 'savaged by a dead sheep' comes to mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Did any of us really expect the factional 'warfare' to become this visceral & open?


i thought they'd be nastier to each other


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought they'd be nastier to each other


Knives?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2016)

marty21 said:


> The Express saying that Gove's odds on being the next PM have been slashed  .


it'd be nice if, following on from the barclays mortgage advert, the express reported gove being slashed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Knives?


i thought they might get all medieval on each other






e2a: i've seen this picture loads of times but never previously noticed the sign on the back of the door. it's the torture chamber in nuremberg, if you're curious


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought they might get all medieval on each other
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you haven't already, you might enjoy this?


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 6, 2016)

looks like a violin hanging on the wall...probably used to get a schoolkid in to play it - the bastards...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> If you haven't already, you might enjoy this?


thank you for the tip


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 6, 2016)

hot air baboon said:


> looks like a violin hanging on the wall...probably used to get a schoolkid in to play it - the bastards...



The tories are taught how to fiddle, at school, year six second term


----------



## existentialist (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Good innit?
> 
> 
> 
> Did any of us really expect the factional 'warfare' to become this visceral & open?



I definitely thought that it would become a part of the Tories' leadership struggle, and it was inevitable that there'd be some bloodletting as the swivel-eyed loons positioned themselves against the more "reasonable" (I use that word very advisedly) end of the Tory spectrum, but I certainly never though they'd get quite as evil at each other - or as factionalised into so many splinters - as they have.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 6, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Knives?


Long ones. At night.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought they might get all medieval on each other
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We should send this to Cameron to give him some ideas for when he punishes Gove and Johnson.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2016)

two sheds said:


> We should send this to Cameron to give him some ideas for when he punishes Gove and Johnson.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2016)

i swear they all talked of being reasonable and running a fair debate etc. I think it was IDS resigning his cbnt position  that marked the start of the 'dignity is over, its war' phase


----------



## existentialist (Jun 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> i swear they all talked of being reasonable and running a fair debate etc. I think it was IDS resigning his cbnt position  that marked the start of the 'dignity is over, its war' phase


It might have marked it, but it was always going to end up being a bloodbath - that's what happens when you blend privilege, swivel-eyed loonitude, inbred halfwittedness and a fanfare of dog whistles.

And Cameron's got form for this - it was about 2006 when he was piously strutting around going on about how Parliament should be all grown up and not jeering and namecalling...but look at him now.


----------



## laptop (Jun 6, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> The tories are taught how to fiddle, at school, year six second term


Burning Rome, Upper Sixth, term 1.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 6, 2016)

laptop said:


> Burning Rome, Upper Sixth, term 1.



Humility whilst displaying hubris and disdain simultaneously was taught off curriculum.


----------



## tim (Jun 6, 2016)

Who post split will the Cameronites invite into their government of national unity?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2016)

tim said:


> Who post split will the Cameronites invite into their government of national unity?



You aren't the first person to mention this, I've even read a few people suggesting that Blairites are going to go into coalition with the Tories after the referendum. It's all just total nonsense.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2016)

J Ed said:


> You aren't the first person to mention this, I've even read a few people suggesting that Blairites are going to go into coalition with the Tories after the referendum. It's all just total nonsense.



Cameron's too left wing for them you think?


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> sort of wish samantha had in a surreal twist turned to the leave campaign and starts publicly batting for brexit. Level the debates have sunk to means she'd be publicly doing that crooked little finger sign that indicates microdick via sign language



...I happened across her dad's Amazon reviews....I have a sneaking suspicion he may be one of the "swivel-eyed loon" chapter of the Brexiters  - unless his country estate is into Brussels for a few million a year in subsidies or something...in which case they may not have him locked in the East Wing for the duration....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/pdp/profile/APEJRGTCL978J/ref=cm_cr_pr_pdp?ie=UTF8


----------



## tim (Jun 6, 2016)

J Ed said:


> You aren't the first person to mention this, I've even read a few people suggesting that Blairites are going to go into coalition with the Tories after the referendum. It's all just total nonsense.




Doesn't feel so at the moment, given viciousness of the Tory attacks on each other and the unwillingness in much of the PLP to unite behind Corbyn. The Social Conservative Party  maybe closer than you think.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Cameron's too left wing for them you think?



more that Corbyn isn't toxic enough, and Cameron is a little too toxic. if Labour started consistantly polling in the 25-30% bracket with Corbyns personal polls nearing those of Jimmy Savile then perhaps some of the Blairites might cross the floor, but for the moment its better to watch the tories tear themselves apart and to see what the forthcoming rows within Labour bring.

if the LD's were in the low 20's or above i wouldn't be surprised if he made them an offer - he could after all present himself as the great European - and it would nulify his most acidic awkward squad.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 6, 2016)

tim said:


> Doesn't feel so at the moment, given viciousness of the Tory attacks on each other and the unwillingness in much of the PLP to unite behind Corbyn. The Social Conservative Party  maybe closer than you think.



Is Nationalist Social Democratic Party a step too far?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2016)

No one is going to hitch their wagon to Cameron's dying days.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2016)

Could he not stay on 'to guide us through these difficult times'? It would be the perfect scapegoat for cutting the NHS, council money, benefits ...


----------



## teqniq (Jun 6, 2016)

Well this is all going swimmingly eh? Perhaps a tad more petrol wouldn't go amiss but anyway after the dust has settled and the bloodstains have been cleaned up what's the chances of the survivors going to the country for a mandate?


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Well this is all going swimmingly eh? Perhaps a tad more petrol wouldn't go amiss but anyway after the dust has settled and the bloodstains have been cleaned up what's the chances of the survivors going to the country for a mandate?



from where i sit - middle England, Mondeo Man, Worcester Woman etc... absolutely bog all.

there, from local chats/media, appears to be open warfare in the Tory party: not between in and out particularly, but between grass roots and wider leadership over the complete mess that the cabinet have made of the ref campaigns. there is real anger over how the senior party have screwed the pooch only a year after winning an election for the first time in 20-odd years. i think that the concern would be that the party at a constituancy level would just not turn up.

personally i don't see Labour pushing for it either, it simply doesn't have the party infrastructure, the money, the candidates or the policy framework to fight and win an election.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2016)

kebabking said:


> from where i sit - middle England, Mondeo Man, Worcester Woman etc... absolutely bog all.
> 
> there, from local chats/media, appears to be open warfare in the Tory party: not between in and out particularly, but between grass roots and wider leadership over the complete mess that the cabinet have made of the ref campaigns. there is real anger over how the senior party have screwed the pooch only a year after winning an election for the first time in 20-odd years. i think that the concern would be that the party at a constituancy level would just not turn up.
> 
> personally i don't see Labour pushing for it either, it simply doesn't have the party infrastructure, the money, the candidates or the policy framework to fight and win an election.



I don't actually know any Tory activists but all of them on twitter seem to hate Cameron's guts atm


----------



## teqniq (Jun 6, 2016)

Oh well I suppose I should be grateful that they're tearing themselves apart and i am! but I want my cake and eat it too. I want all of it and I want it now.


----------



## laptop (Jun 6, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> Is Nationalist Social Democratic Party a step too far?


And what with Tories  claiming to be the Workers' Party...


----------



## teqniq (Jun 8, 2016)

This could also go on the referendum thread but it'll do here too

David Cameron’s own MPs turn on him ahead of EU referendum


----------



## teqniq (Jun 9, 2016)

Margaret Thatcher’s former defence chief quits Tory party over David Cameron's 'tirade of fear' in EU campaign


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 9, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Margaret Thatcher’s former defence chief quits Tory party over David Cameron's 'tirade of fear' in EU campaign



Oh is it "get our sleepers out to show how the other side is falling apart" time already? My how the months have flown.

EU referendum: Respected Tory MP Sarah Wollaston quits Leave campaign over 'false' NHS claims


----------



## kebabking (Jun 9, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Margaret Thatcher’s former defence chief quits Tory party over David Cameron's 'tirade of fear' in EU campaign



i'm not entirely convinced that John Nott is regarded as a wise old hand by anyone in the tory party - it doesn't surpise me that he's an outer given that the pinnacle of his career was to bring about an entirely foreseeable disaster through short-sighted idiocy that relied on unicorns and fairy dust to have a hope in hell of not being a disaster...

if the loon wing of the tory party want him, then more fool them.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 11, 2016)

....seems pretty unbelievable the remain campaign want to fill the make-or-break home straight of the campaign with a US style personalised and wholly negative shit fight - can't see that as being anything but a turn-off to all the waverers, neutrals & don't knows  ...aside from the fact Johnson seems to have effortlessly shrugged off all the previous attempts to trash his reputation

EU referendum: 'Panicked' Remain camp plans to 'take out Boris' as opinion polls swing in Brexit campaign's favour

Downing Street is “panicked” over the EU referendum amid growing internal signs that support for the Leave campaign is surging.

It has led to a marked change in strategy, with the campaign to keep Britain in the EU now orchestrating a series of highly personal attacks on Boris Johnson, one of the leaders of the Leave campaign. David Cameron’s team has adopted a “take out Boris strategy” by allowing Tory Cabinet minister to claim he only backed a Brexit in order to further his ambition to be Prime Minister...


----------



## laptop (Jun 11, 2016)

hot air baboon said:


> ....seems pretty unbelievable the remain campaign want to fill the make-or-break home straight of the campaign with a US style personalised and wholly negative shit fight - can't see that as being anything but a turn-off to all the waverers, neutrals & don't knows  ...aside from the fact Johnson seems to have effortlessly shrugged off all the previous attempts to trash his reputation
> 
> EU referendum: 'Panicked' Remain camp plans to 'take out Boris' as opinion polls swing in Brexit campaign's favour
> 
> ...


Yabbut that's the Telegraph trying to take out Cameron...


----------



## brogdale (Jun 15, 2016)




----------



## J Ed (Jun 15, 2016)

brogdale said:


>




and now

EU referendum live: 57 Tory MPs 'would vote down' Osborne's Brexit budget



> *57 Tory MPs say they would vote against Osborne's 'absurd' emergency budget plans*
> Here is the statement signed today by 57 Tory MPs saying they would vote against George Osborne’s proposed post-Brexit emergency budget. It has been issued by Vote Leave.
> 
> It says:
> ...


To me this does not look like a government that will be able to hold together for long after the referendum regardless of outcome, except in the near impossible event of a clear victory for Remain.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 15, 2016)

kebabking said:


> i'm not entirely convinced that John Nott is regarded as a wise old hand by anyone in the tory party - it doesn't surpise me that he's an outer given that the pinnacle of his career was to bring about an entirely foreseeable disaster through short-sighted idiocy that relied on unicorns and fairy dust to have a hope in hell of not being a disaster...
> 
> if the loon wing of the tory party want him, then more fool them.


All politicians in their dotage are wise elder statesmen. See e.g. Richard milhous nixon


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## Pickman's model (Jun 15, 2016)

laptop said:


> Yabbut that's the Telegraph trying to take out Cameron...


Where's a drone when you need one?


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## nino_savatte (Jun 15, 2016)

Osborne's really fond of his 'emergency' budgets, isn't he? It contributes to the language of crisis that this government has created to convince people of the need for austerity. Thatcher did exactly the same thing, but as Alexei Sayle once observed, this government is nothing but a really bad Thatcherite tribute band.


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## brogdale (Jun 15, 2016)

J Ed said:


> and now
> 
> EU referendum live: 57 Tory MPs 'would vote down' Osborne's Brexit budget
> 
> ...


They're certainly not holding together in advance of it!
Interesting, isn't it, that faced with an actual crisis Chancellor Darling actually had to respond in the polar opposite macro-economic manner; he increased public borrowing and cut VAT to stimulate demand. Osborne can't even lie well.


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## gosub (Jun 15, 2016)

J Ed said:


> and now
> 
> EU referendum live: 57 Tory MPs 'would vote down' Osborne's Brexit budget
> 
> ...



The magic number to trigger a Leadership challenge was and is 50.


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## brogdale (Jun 15, 2016)

gosub said:


> The magic number to trigger a Leadership challenge was and is 50.


_Heinz _could be his nemesis!


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## brogdale (Jun 21, 2016)

Hmmm interesting murmurings from North of the border...

Scottish Tories to split from UK party if Boris Johnson becomes leader - The Courier 


> Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson will declare independence from her UK party if Boris Johnson becomes its leader, The Courier can reveal.


Is this new(s)?


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## two sheds (Jun 21, 2016)

Shouldn't that be 'Scottish Tory to split ... "?


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## Sue (Jun 21, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Shouldn't that be 'Scottish Tory to split ... "?


They may only have one Westminster MP but they've also got 31 MSPs.


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## two sheds (Jun 21, 2016)

I went to 'like' that then thought the better of it


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## brogdale (Jun 21, 2016)




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## brogdale (Jun 26, 2016)

Javid appeared quite unhinged on Marr...


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## brogdale (Aug 8, 2016)

Oooh, they're still bitching...they wouldn't let it lie....


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## DaveCinzano (Aug 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Oooh, they're still bitching...they wouldn't let it lie....


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## brogdale (Aug 13, 2016)

Entirely unsurprising 'post-war' conflict.



> _Liam Fox and Boris Johnson are locked in a bitter Whitehall feud over who controls key parts of Britain's foreign policy, a leaked letter seen by The Sunday Telegraph reveals.
> 
> Just weeks after the two men joined the Government, Mr Fox sent Mr Johnson the terse letter, which he copied to Theresa May, effectively demanding that the Foreign Office be broken up._


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## Smangus (Aug 14, 2016)

Land grabbing, fuck em both


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## teqniq (Aug 15, 2016)

The only thing I want to know about Liam fox is how come a disgraced individual such as he has found his way back into the corridors of power. The are still many unanswered questions surrounding what actually happened in the meetings between Fox, Gould, Werrity and representatives of the state of Israel. The state is blatantly refusing to answer any of these questions. We are as usual, being treated with complete contempt.

More info can be found in this piece by Craig Murray


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## stavros (Aug 15, 2016)

teqniq said:


> The only thing I want to know about Liam fox is how come a disgraced individual such as he has found his way back into the corridors of power.



People like to mix with their own?


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## teqniq (Aug 15, 2016)

stavros said:


> People like to mix with their own?


Well scum always floats to the top.


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## brogdale (Sep 10, 2016)

Cabinet split on grammar schools as Theresa May's supporters accuse critics of 'arrogance'


> _Theresa May’s plan to open a new wave of grammar schools across the country split the cabinet on Saturday night, with senior ministers warning the policy could dramatically backfire._


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## J Ed (Sep 11, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Cabinet split on grammar schools as Theresa May's supporters accuse critics of 'arrogance'
> ​



There is no way that this grammar school thing is going to pass, something else is going on but I'm not sure I know what it is yet.


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## Kaka Tim (Sep 11, 2016)

J Ed said:


> There is no way that this grammar school thing is going to pass, something else is going on but I'm not sure I know what it is yet.



Yeah im a bit mystified by this. Unless there's some devious machivelaean shit going down it could be that May is not the capable pragmatist she was assumed to be - but a deluded ideolouge. 
This policy is a huge hostage to fortune and will encounter resistance from a wide range of sources - not least her own party.


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## bluescreen (Sep 11, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Yeah im a bit mystified by this. Unless there's some devious machivelaean shit going down it could be that May is not the capable pragmatist she was assumed to be - but a deluded ideolouge.
> This policy is a huge hostage to fortune and will encounter resistance from a wide range of sources - not least her own party.


Ideology, I reckon. Her own grammar school hubris and a severe nudge from Nick Timothy, the_ eminence grise_.


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## brogdale (Oct 2, 2016)

Looks like the defeated army has re-grouped to launch a fresh attack on the flank of the victors...



> A “hard Brexit” in which the UK turns its back on the EU single market and closes its borders to European citizens risks encouraging bigoted attitudes like those of Donald Trump, a former cabinet minister in David Cameron’s government will say on Sunday.



Trump!


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## teqniq (Oct 3, 2016)

May faces Tory backlash after signalling move toward hard Brexit


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## brogdale (Oct 3, 2016)

teqniq said:


> May faces Tory backlash after signalling move toward hard Brexit


All that bullshit about 'lancing the boil' and 'never been so united'.


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## teqniq (Oct 3, 2016)

It could still blow up in their faces, one hopes.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2016)

teqniq said:


> It could still blow up in their faces, one hopes.



Like a sack full of fermenting shit.


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## MrSki (Oct 5, 2016)

I think it might appeal more to the right.


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## 8ball (Oct 5, 2016)

As much as I'm amazed by where 'the centre' seems to have ended up, I'm amazed by the morons who think that something being described as 'centre' must make it reasonable.


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## stavros (Oct 6, 2016)

MrSki said:


> I think it might appeal more to the right.



Kirsty Wark did an interview with her for Newsnight at the Tory conference. May achieved the impressive feat of getting through a ten minute interview without actually answering any of Wark's questions. Top PM material.


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## two sheds (Oct 7, 2016)

> Whenever an elite is unjust, anywhere in the world, from South Africa to Chile to Saudi Arabia, it’s been the Conservative Party that has bravely fought them by selling them weapons and inviting their leaders to dinner



Mark Steel: Thank God Theresa May is continuing the historic Tory tradition of fighting the elite


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## brogdale (Oct 8, 2016)

_Watch yer back _Hammond.


> _A new cabinet split over the handling of Brexit has emerged as ministers privately attacked each other over how to approach EU negotiations.
> 
> Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, has been blamed for talking down Britain’s hopes of getting a good deal and attacked for his “relentless pessimism”.
> 
> One cabinet colleague went as far saying that Mr Hammond, who voted to stay in the EU, should *“watch his back” and could lose his job. *_


So soon?


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## brogdale (Oct 15, 2016)

lol


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## stavros (Oct 15, 2016)

But that would suggest he altered his opinion to suit his professional ambitions!


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## brogdale (Oct 17, 2016)

So Hammond threatened to walk?
So soon.


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## brogdale (Oct 17, 2016)

Classic indicator of depth of division...


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## existentialist (Oct 17, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Classic indicator of depth of division...



Ulp. So I imagine that Hammond, Carney, and the Bank will be looking closely to their laurels, and even more closely to future career options


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## kebabking (Oct 17, 2016)

existentialist said:


> Ulp. So I imagine that Hammond, Carney, and the Bank will be looking closely to their laurels, and even more closely to future career options



actually i think its much more likely to be a spot of panic at May towers - if she were to lose any either of Hammond and Carney she'd be in very deep political poo, if she were to lose both of them she'd be gone within the week and she knows it. Labour could table a motion of no confidence and a third of the PCP would vote for it and another third would be washing their hair...

neither Hammond nor Carney have anything to lose, Hammond could walk out and be lauded as the most principled and intelligent politician for the next decade, while Carney could walk into any central bank or regulating role he liked. Hammond is allegedly furious that May has given the Three Amigos such a long leash and that she appears to be either pandering to them or ignoring them, and that she's allowing cack-handed fuckwittery to take hold at the Home Office, and Carney is unhappy with the general air of no-one-has-made-any-decisions-yet and apparently thinks that May is spending too much time being _in control, _and not enough time doing any actual _controlling_...

she's not in trouble yet - not least because there just aren't any challengers - but i don't think she's got many more months of not-much-happening-while-the-pound-and-economy-tanks-and-Corbyn-does-well-at-PMQ's before she begins to have a problem.


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## brogdale (Oct 17, 2016)

kebabking said:


> actually i think its much more likely to be a spot of panic at May towers - if she were to lose any either of Hammond and Carney she'd be in very deep political poo, if she were to lose both of them she'd be gone within the week and she knows it. Labour could table a motion of no confidence and a third of the PCP would vote for it and another third would be washing their hair...
> 
> neither Hammond nor Carney have anything to lose, Hammond could walk out and be lauded as the most principled and intelligent politician for the next decade, while Carney could walk into any central bank or regulating role he liked. Hammond is allegedly furious that May has given the Three Amigos such a long leash and that she appears to be either pandering to them or ignoring them, and that she's allowing cack-handed fuckwittery to take hold at the Home Office, and Carney is unhappy with the general air of no-one-has-made-any-decisions-yet and apparently thinks that May is spending too much time being _in control, _and not enough time doing any actual _controlling_...
> 
> she's not in trouble yet - not least because there just aren't any challengers - but i don't think she's got many more months of not-much-happening-while-the-pound-and-economy-tanks-and-Corbyn-does-well-at-PMQ's before she begins to have a problem.


Such cabinet shenanigans were inevitable from the way she shaped her team; the Atlanti-fantasists given the foreign/exit levers and a conservative Euro-neoliberal as chancellor.


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## Santino (Oct 17, 2016)

kebabking said:


> Hammond is allegedly furious that May has given the Three Amigos such a long leash


 Or perhaps just enough rope.


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## brogdale (Oct 17, 2016)

Santino said:


> Or perhaps just enough rope.


I don't think so; May's neck would be in that noose with them if they fuck up.


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## Santino (Oct 17, 2016)

brogdale said:


> I don't think so; May's neck would be in that noose with them if they fuck up.


 What she needs is three useful idiots to act as scapegoats. 'We tried hard Brexit and look at the mess we're in... Now let's try something more sensible.' (Cue: Night of the Long Knives.)


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## Teaboy (Oct 17, 2016)

Santino said:


> What she needs is three useful idiots to act as scapegoats. 'We tried hard Brexit and look at the mess we're in... Now let's try something more sensible.' (Cue: Night of the Long Knives.)



That was exactly my thinking when she put the 3 stooges in key positions.  I thought these idiots are being set up to fail and they can't see it. Depressingly I'm not so sure now, I'm beginning to think she hasn't a clue what to do.


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## brogdale (Oct 17, 2016)

Santino said:


> What she needs is three useful idiots to act as scapegoats. 'We tried hard Brexit and look at the mess we're in... Now let's try something more sensible.' (Cue: Night of the Long Knives.)


It might have had potential had she not immediately & repeatedly said that B = B & "we're going to make a success of it". No expectation management there.


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## Santino (Oct 17, 2016)

brogdale said:


> It might have had potential had she not immediately & repeatedly said that B = B & "we're going to make a success of it". No expectation management there.


 'Sadly in recent weeks it has become clear that - despite our best efforts - this is not the right time to move away from the Single Market.'

She has to be seen to make a go of it, both to placate the Tory exit voters and keep the useful idiots in the tent for now. In fact, the harder and faster they move, thinking that they are in the ascendant, the more quickly she can dump them and pull out Plan B.


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## brogdale (Oct 17, 2016)

Santino said:


> 'Sadly in recent weeks it has become clear that - despite our best efforts - this is not the right time to move away from the Single Market.'
> 
> She has to be seen to make a go of it, both to placate the Tory exit voters and keep the useful idiots in the tent for now. In fact, the harder and faster they move, thinking that they are in the ascendant, the more quickly she can dump them and pull out Plan B.


Would be her Cameron moment.


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## existentialist (Oct 17, 2016)

Santino said:


> Or perhaps just enough rope.


This is what I am fervently assuming is the case...


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## existentialist (Oct 17, 2016)

Teaboy said:


> That was exactly my thinking when she put the 3 stooges in key positions.  I thought these idiots are being set up to fail and they can't see it. *Depressingly I'm not so sure now, I'm beginning to think she hasn't a clue what to do.*


And, TBF, I think I'd feel the same way in her elegantly-pointed designer heels.

One wonders whether seizing the leadership of the Conservative Party was in fact quite so smart, given that it may well turn out to be a caretaker-cum-poisoned-chalice-holder position in the not-so-long run while things go from shit to worse. Nice and ready for someone to come along and breezily say "well, that's enough of this nonsense, let's tear up all this Brexit idiocy and try to put Humpty back together again."


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## brogdale (Oct 31, 2016)

Hannan; "pathetic political rubbish"....



...unjustified, rude and embarrassing.



Seems the civil war will, for the present, crystallise around the Governor.


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## redsquirrel (Oct 31, 2016)

Shows the crapness of the parliamentary left that the that the attacks on Carney are only coming from the right.

Even if they don't believe it, there's political capital to be made here.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 8, 2017)

Looks like the Israeli embassy is now a player in the 'Tory Civil War' 

Israel's ambassador sorry over 'take down' Sir Alan Duncan comment - BBC News


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## J Ed (Jan 8, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Looks like the Israeli embassy is now a player in the 'Tory Civil War'
> 
> Israel's ambassador sorry over 'take down' Sir Alan Duncan comment - BBC News



Makes you wonder about the Ruth Smeeth stuff, dunnit?


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## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2017)

I was really hoping it was Regev who had been caught making these unwise comments.


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## hipipol (Jan 8, 2017)

Santino said:


> What she needs is three useful idiots to act as scapegoats. 'We tried hard Brexit and look at the mess we're in... Now let's try something more sensible.' (Cue: Night of the Long Knives.)


I thought like that too until I realised she got the job by saying nothing, not because she was being "smart" but she was utterly free of all thought and merely emulating Peter Sellers
Being There - Wikipedia


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## hipipol (Jan 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I was really hoping it was Regev who had been caught making these unwise comments.


I have been hoping that lying shit might be caught admitting he is a murderous swine for years
Not yet
But getting closer
Take Cheer
Scum will always bubble to surface, obvious to all, given time


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## redsquirrel (Jan 8, 2017)

Masot (the Israeli diplomat) has been sent home and Strizzolo has resigned.



> Meanwhile, Masot is being sent back to Israel in disgrace, and a civil servant and Conservative official who was also filmed discussing ways to discredit MPs has resigned from her post.


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## hot air baboon (Apr 1, 2017)

How Brexit could still rip the Tory party in two  | Daily Mail Online


_But some others believe that readiness to give in on the central issues upon which the referendum was fought is a grievous betrayal. This week, those voices were not heard amid the euphoria following the dispatch of the Article 50 letter to Brussels.
But be assured of one thing: they will not remain silent for long. For I can reveal that Conservative MPs are already starting to rally around an organisation called the European Research Group._


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