# MANCHESTER!! wins casino race :)



## DUMBO.66 (Jan 30, 2007)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6312707.stm
any thoughts? i don't gamble, and don't really know anyone here who does...


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## marty21 (Jan 30, 2007)

plenty of punters on the boards, i've only been to a casino once, in brno (czech republic) lost about a tenner on roulette and left


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## harticus (Jan 30, 2007)

DUMBO.66 said:
			
		

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6312707.stm
> any thoughts? i don't gamble, and don't really know anyone here who does...




That area of Manchester (East), Beswick, Bradford, Collyhurst, Harpurhey, Clayton, even as far up as Newton heath and Failsoworth is in dire need of regeneration, it's pretty much the toilet of Manchester at the mo. Most of Manchester has had at least some areas of improvement, some more than others like South Manchester where I live (Old TRafford) and the city centre have blossomed.

Personally I'm pretty much OK about it. In terms of Blackpool and London's bid it makes sense not to have chosen either of those areas. Blackpool I'm sad to say is the arse end of nowhere and London's having the Olympic Games and The World Cup so to have the Casino as well would have been bloody greedy.

I don't bet myself, like a game a poker at home with me mates now and then but I dont really believe that this Casino will cause the sudden downfall of humanity that some corners are claiming.

Internet Gambling already has that covered!!


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## moose (Jan 30, 2007)

I'm always happy to have money spent on the Centre of the Universe (although I do feel a bit sorry for Blackpool!) Let's hope the majority of the people who live in East Mancs can afford to use the new facilities.


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## DUMBO.66 (Jan 31, 2007)

s'all about south manchester


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## tangerinedream (Feb 7, 2007)

harticus said:
			
		

> Blackpool I'm sad to say is the arse end of nowhere and London's having the Olympic Games and The World Cup so to have the Casino as well would have been bloody greedy.



Manchester has had it's fair share of stuff. 

I put a longer post on the main thread about this so not going to repeat myself, but my response as resident of the fylde coast is mixed - Casino, not to keen - No regeneration - even less keen. Blackpool has (for it's size) comparable social problems to anywhere in the UK, it has two large areas designated as slums by the EU, it has a soaring rate of drug use and Britain's (if not europe) highest rate of teenage pregnancy. We may not have the gun crime of manchester, but we equally don't have the employment prospects and education facilities, nor any of the national or international sporting events, business facilities or cultural resources. 

The fact you have to drive for 20 mins of the M6 to get to Blackpool isn't really a justification for why the place rejected - It could have been a catylist for a total regeneration of transport links and if nothing else, provided an aesthetic overhaul the place has needed desperately since about 1971. The scariest thing is the council (nor anyone else) seems to have a plan B - all they can do is try and get people to challenge the decision in court, which ain't going to work. 

Yes, there are areas of Manchester that need regeneration, but I would argue that the whole of the Fylde coast needs something just as much. - I'm sorry 'arse end of nowhere' is the kind of centrist thinking I would associate with a londoner, who thinks the idea of any facilities being 'in the regions' is a disgrace.

I repeated myself a bit...


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## AnnO'Neemus (Feb 7, 2007)

I disagree with the idea of more casinos generally, but I think the arguments for using it as a catalyst to regenerate Blackpool and the whole Las Vegas of the North idea was more appropriate and realistic.

In Manchester we have a lot of alternatives, such as conferences and tourism more generally -- even Labour has swapped Blackpool for Manchester as a party political conference venue, so Blackpool needs some kind of attraction.

I have grave doubts about the whole casino thing anyway:  I mean regeneration?  Yes, there might be some short term construction jobs to build the thing.  Long term jobs?  More likely to be low paid, casual type employment.  Lots of people on low pay having to claim housing and council tax benefit and tax credits to make ends meet.  So local and central government end up subsidising some greedy corporation, because that's the only way people can afford to take such low paid jobs.  

So local and central government effectively *pays* for low paid jobs (in contrast to better paid manufacturing jobs, because state subsidy of decent pay packets isn't right).

And what about all the profits?  Will they be reinvested in the local community?  Will they bollocks.  The profits will be whisked out and into the pockets of company directors and shareholders before the roulette wheel has stopped spinning.

As far as I can tell, it's a lose-lose situation for the local economy.  The only winner is the casino owner and its shareholders.


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## tangerinedream (Feb 7, 2007)

AnnO'Neemus said:
			
		

> I disagree with the idea of more casinos generally, but I think the arguments for using it as a catalyst to regenerate Blackpool and the whole Las Vegas of the North idea was more appropriate and realistic.
> 
> In Manchester we have a lot of alternatives, such as conferences and tourism more generally -- even Labour has swapped Blackpool for Manchester as a party political conference venue, so Blackpool needs some kind of attraction.
> 
> ...



Excellent post. 

For these reasons I didn't want the casino in Blackpool, but then again, in the absence of any other plan, I tend to think Las Vegas of the North is a better future than, 'crumbling stag party venue falling into the sea slowly of the north' - Blackpool could be a brilliant place, Brighton has to be it's inspiration in some ways, but it will take a long long time to sort it out I'm afraid.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Feb 7, 2007)

I was a bit alarmed by a questionnaire that was supposed to be part of a 'con'sultation for the redevelopment of some derelict sites in Hulme/Central Manchester.  

One of the questions was along the lines of:  Would you like some more leisure facilities, e.g. a gym?

Now, considering that there's already a local leisure centre with a swimming pool, gym and other sports facilities in the area, plus there's the Aquatics Centre five minutes away, which was built for the Commonwealth Games, plus the universities have more of their own sports facilities for students than you can shake a hockey stick at...

Call me a cynic, but I figure that asking people:  Do you want more 'leisure' facilities? is just a way of getting people to say 'yes', because I'm guessing that planning permission for another casino (as they are rolled out over the next few years), would come under the type of use "leisure" and I reckon we're being stitched up.

Although siting a casino in one of Manchester's worst areas for gun crimes would strike anyone as being remarkably stupid I wouldn't put it past the local council.


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## speedstar (Feb 8, 2007)

Well I've just bought a house a few streets away from where to Supercasino will be so I am glad of the decision!


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## Stibs (Feb 10, 2007)

speedstar said:
			
		

> Well I've just bought a house a few streets away from where to Supercasino will be so I am glad of the decision!



If Manchester does get the supercasino (which is not yet decided) it might not even go to Eastlands, the mercantile burghers at the Town Hall have reserved the right to change their minds - so don't count yer chickens! 

Personally, I don't like gambling, and I think people who do gamble are mugs, and like Ann I'm yet to be convinced of this osmotic regeneration a supercasino is supposed to bring. 

That said, I'm in the minority as far as disliking gambling goes, so we'll park that one, eh? 

Blackpool, ahh, dear Blackpool. It really is a great, great shame that Blackpool has not been recommended to the Secretary of State. The town put all it's eggs in one basket, that's true, but what eggs! The regenerative scheme was truly imaginative, imo, and sadly all completely dependant upon getting the supercasino. They've lost far more than a mere gambling palace, but also the first five star hotels in the resort, a clean up of the pleasure zones (which are frankly medieval some nights) and a wholescale redraw of the Prom and Golden Mile. Blackpool has relied for years on cheap coach tours, and the stag and hen market, and this has frightened many families away. And it's families who are the big spenders, not weekend pissheads. Add to this the cheap airlines taking the traditional weekend coastal break and sending it to Amsterdam or Barcelona, and you have a town the usual supporters of which have long since abandoned.

The comment about Brighton is spot on. When I lived in London, it was 'cool' for young affluent professionals to go to Brighton for the weekend, eat, drink, go clubbing. In the north-west you wouldn't dream of popping to Blackpool because of it's reputation.

Arguably, Blackpool has an even more attractive heritage than Brighton. As a Victorian resort town I think it's unrivalled - but the Tower, the Piers, the trams, the Ballroom, all the Victoriana that makes Blackpool unique has been hidden for too long behind a veneer of glitz and glamour that's frankly done far better elsewhere.

Instead of taking the example of the rest of the Fylde coast, and concentrating on the unique natural and historical aspects of the place, Blackpool has covered it's uniqueness with naff neon and shouty signs everywhere, appealing to the lowest common denominator. The Pleasure Beach appears to have leaked across the town, until the whole place resembles some dank, litter-strewn funfair long after the fun has ended.

Given the imagination and the funding, I think Blackpool could definately be revived - but of course the funding they were expecting isn't going to come now - and the Plan B (which seems to be 'carry on as we were') is the kind of attitude that got them into this pickle in the first place. They need a drastic rethink of what Blackpool could look like in 20 years time, and in my opinion it would involve a crackdown on public drunkeness, renovation and promotion of the heritage of Blackpool at the expense of it's party town reputation if need be. The sustainable and lucrative family market wants a unique experience, and Blackpool stopped providing thatin about 1892.

So Manchester has probably got it, and it will do very well here. We have the transport links and the hotels already. But I can't help but feel that as a city on the up, Manchester has least to gain from a supercasino. Yet again in this country I think we've seen the imaginative, more complex and more challenging option abandoned in favour of the easier, if more guarenteed option - the mediocrity of democracy in action, perhaps.


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