# Handing in notice during sick leave?



## Bess21 (May 21, 2014)

I have been off signed off sick for the past 2 weeks and have another 2 weeks left on my sick leave before I am due to return. I have been contacted about a job I applied for almost 6 weeks ago (one I was really interested in but had given up hope on hearing back from to be honest) offering me an interview next week. Was just wondering if anyone had any advice for me, do I go to the interview when I'm off sick? If I'm offered the job should I hand my notice in during my sick leave? I have been very unwell but have finally been prescribed tablets that seem to be helping some but have been issued a further 2 weeks of absence at the end of which the doctor hopes I should be fit for work once again. I'm worried that if (and its a big if) I'm offered the new job that using my sick leave to hand in my notice may affect my reference. Any help and advice would be much appreciated.


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## Hocus Eye. (May 21, 2014)

What a strange (if original) question. Certainly go to the interview and wait to see if you get offered the job before worrying about handing in  your notice. If they offer you the job they will already have taken up your references.


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## equationgirl (May 21, 2014)

I would recommend not handing in your notice until you have a new job offer in writing. Best of luck for the interview.


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## moose (May 21, 2014)

For references, my employer only confirms someone worked here - they don't disclose how many days sick you have had or anything like that, as they see it as a breach of your privacy. Hopefully your employer things the same. 

My concern would be whether you're fit to get a new job yet if you're not well. It's one thing to leave a job when you're sick, quite another to start a new job and be off straight away with a pre-existing condition.


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## maomao (May 21, 2014)

moose said:


> My concern would be whether you're fit to get a new job yet if you're not well. It's one thing to leave a job when you're sick, quite another to start a new job and be off straight away with a pre-existing condition.



Easier said than done when there's rent/mortgage to pay and food to put on the table. I'm currently unemployed for 12 days (finished my old job yesterday, start my new job Monday week) and in times past I would have been straight down the job centre to see if I could get a few quid of my taxes back but I don't think I could take the stress. Certainly going long term sick is not an attractive option for most people if there's a chance of working for a living.


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## Pickman's model (May 21, 2014)

Bess21 said:


> I have been off signed off sick for the past 2 weeks and have another 2 weeks left on my sick leave before I am due to return. I have been contacted about a job I applied for almost 6 weeks ago (one I was really interested in but had given up hope on hearing back from to be honest) offering me an interview next week. Was just wondering if anyone had any advice for me, do I go to the interview when I'm off sick? If I'm offered the job should I hand my notice in during my sick leave? I have been very unwell but have finally been prescribed tablets that seem to be helping some but have been issued a further 2 weeks of absence at the end of which the doctor hopes I should be fit for work once again. I'm worried that if (and its a big if) I'm offered the new job that using my sick leave to hand in my notice may affect my reference. Any help and advice would be much appreciated.


good luck


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## moose (May 21, 2014)

maomao said:


> Easier said than done when there's rent/mortgage to pay and food to put on the table. I'm currently unemployed for 12 days (finished my old job yesterday, start my new job Monday week) and in times past I would have been straight down the job centre to see if I could get a few quid of my taxes back but I don't think I could take the stress. Certainly going long term sick is not an attractive option for most people if there's a chance of working for a living.


Yeah, totally see that, but no point the OP making themselves more ill if the doctor only 'hopes' they will be fit for work after the meds.
When I started my current place I was quite ill with an undiagnosed condition that was under investigation, and found myself unable to do the job properly initially, but reluctant to take any time off. I used to have to nip to the toilet to have a sleep every couple of hours, and felt quite desperate in case I fucked up the job. Wouldn't want the OP to be in that situation cos it was super stressful.


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## maomao (May 21, 2014)

moose said:


> Yeah, totally see that, but no point the OP making themselves more ill if the doctor only 'hopes' they will be fit for work after the meds.
> When I started my current place I was quite ill with an undiagnosed condition that was under investigation, and found myself unable to do the job properly initially, but reluctant to take any time off. I used to have to nip to the toilet to have a sleep every couple of hours, and felt quite desperate in case I fucked up the job. Wouldn't want the OP to be in that situation cos it was super stressful.


Well, depending on the illness, the company and the nature of the job, complete honesty with all parties may be the best option. I'm in a position where I can be honest about my medical problems and it really has made and hopefully will make things a lot easier when they're a problem. Of course depends completely on the problem and we don't know enough about Bess, her medical problem, what kind of job it is and what she's prepared to go through to get it to really comment on it but with my condition I'd rather risk a few days of crippling pain than throw myself on Atos' mercy. Though my ultimate preference would be to have access to the kind of welfare state that we've all agreed upon and paid for.


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## Bess21 (May 22, 2014)

Thank you everyone for being so helpful. I'm going to attend the interview then take things from there. I'm hoping to be fit and well by the end of the 2 weeks but to be honest, I cant afford to live on SSP so am going to have to work either way. Thank you moose, I hope this is the case with my company as I think my time off could put the new company off employing me (which would be very disappointing since before this illness I had not been absent whatsoever). Thanks again


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 22, 2014)

Hocus Eye. said:


> If they offer you the job they will already have taken up your references.



I thought you normally got offered the job, subject to satisfactory references being received?


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## cesare (May 22, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I thought you normally got offered the job, subject to satisfactory references being received?


In the private and third sector, generally speaking, yes. Some public sector esp education, take up references first.


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## Mation (May 22, 2014)

Good luck with the interview, Bess21


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## equationgirl (May 22, 2014)

Bess21 said:


> Thank you everyone for being so helpful. I'm going to attend the interview then take things from there. I'm hoping to be fit and well by the end of the 2 weeks but to be honest, I cant afford to live on SSP so am going to have to work either way. Thank you moose, I hope this is the case with my company as I think my time off could put the new company off employing me (which would be very disappointing since before this illness I had not been absent whatsoever). Thanks again


If your illness is likely to last more than 12 months, it will be classed as a qualifying disability under the Equality Act 2010. There are some illnesses that don't have this condition and mean the person is covered under this legislation from diagnosis. I can understand that you don't want your employer (current or potentially new) to know but it does mean that if you opt not to tell them then you may not be covered by the legislation.

Telling them means they should disregard any absence directly related to your medical condition.


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## cesare (May 22, 2014)

The illness also *has* to have a substantial adverse effect on the ability to carry out day to day activities in order to qualify as a disability under the EA 2010 (if not one of the progressive conditions separately provided for).


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## Allan Tweedle (Aug 30, 2015)

Hi wonder if people can help me i'm off work with depression work wont give me or make me redundant so i want to hand in my notice can i do that while i'm off sick as on Tuesday 1st September 2015 it will be a month off work but i only need to give a week notice. Thank you if you can help.


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## equationgirl (Sep 1, 2015)

Allan Tweedle said:


> Hi wonder if people can help me i'm off work with depression work wont give me or make me redundant so i want to hand in my notice can i do that while i'm off sick as on Tuesday 1st September 2015 it will be a month off work but i only need to give a week notice. Thank you if you can help.


If you hand in your notice you will not be entitled to redundancy pay, and you may be unable to claim unemployment at the job centre.

Why do you want to hand in your notice?


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## Allan Tweedle (Sep 14, 2015)

Because i'm off work with depression and they put so much pressure on me and i told them dont put so much on me and there response was if you dont like it you know where the door is. I've been into work to drop my sick notes off and they keep saying when am i coming back to work as we need your help.


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## equationgirl (Sep 14, 2015)

Allan Tweedle said:


> Because i'm off work with depression and they put so much pressure on me and i told them dont put so much on me and there response was if you dont like it you know where the door is. I've been into work to drop my sick notes off and they keep saying when am i coming back to work as we need your help.


Are you in a union at all?

Your employer should not be hassling you when you are off sick. Have you been asked to attend an occupational health appointment of any kind?


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## Gromit (Sep 15, 2015)

Allan Tweedle said:


> Because i'm off work with depression and they put so much pressure on me and i told them dont put so much on me and there response was if you dont like it you know where the door is. I've been into work to drop my sick notes off and they keep saying when am i coming back to work as we need your help.



You need to keep a record of any meetings where you notified them of stress and their responses.
Its very difficult to sue for constructive dismissal for stress as all the employer has to do is prove that they offered some sort of help. However if they have offered no help and just told you to like it or lump then you stand a fair chance.


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## cesare (Sep 15, 2015)

Gromit said:


> You need to keep a record of any meetings where you notified them of stress and their responses.
> Its very difficult to sue for constructive dismissal for stress as all the employer has to do is prove that they offered some sort of help. However if they have offered no help and just told you to like it or lump then you stand a fair chance.


It's _more_ difficult to sue for constructive dismissal as the burden of proof is with the employee unlike straightforward unfair dismissal. This means that the employee has to make out a case that the employer fundamentally breached the contract of employment, mutual trust and confidence, entitling the employee to resign in response. Then the burden of proof shifts to the employer to show that they didn't, in fact, fundamentally breach the employment contract. 

It's not correct to say that all the employer has to do is prove they offered some sort of help with stress. It depends on the circumstances. In any event, the poster has said that they are sick with depression which may or may not be caused by stress, and if it is, it may or may not be occupational stress. The poster's depression will possibly mean that they are disabled for the purposes of the Equality Act, and so the employer would be obliged to consider reasonable adjustments and those will be dependant on the circumstances.

I agree that the poster should keep a record of anything that takes place with the employer.

Allan Tweedle - your position would be easier if they dismissed you. I recommend that you resist the pressure and don't resign. Stay off sick until you are better or they dismiss you.


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 15, 2015)

a few thoughts - 

I'd agree with equationgirl - resigning is probably not a good option.  you may well fall in to the 'voluntarily unemployed' situation and be disqualified from job seekers allowance - i'm not quite sure how you'd stand claiming ESA (benefit if you're too sick / disabled to work) but it gets more difficult to claim at fairly frequent intervals.

it may seem an easy way out of some of the hassle in the short term, but i can't help thinking it would probably cause more problems in the not too distant future.

there's no right to ask for redundancy.  in some cases like this, an employer may think it's an easy way out of a situation (i managed to get a redundancy deal a few years back when i was in fairly crappy health, and it suited all concerned) 

but employers may invoke a 'capability' process - in other words if they decide someone is no longer capable, through poor health, of doing their job, it can be legal to sack someone for being ill.  although they do have to handle this carefully and with a proper process.

Gromit has mentioned 'constructive dismissal' - this may be a possibility, but (in most cases) you need to have 2 years' service or more with your employer, you usually have to show that you've at least tried to resolve things through the employer's grievance procedure before resigning, and there are now fees to bring a case to an employment tribunal.  if you're even thinking of going down this road, you'll need some advice.

are you in a union at work?  they ought to be able to offer some advice.

failing that, ACAS do have an advice line that any employee can ring - you don't have to give your name and so on.

as for the specific hassle about when you take your certificate in - i'd be inclined to post it in (take a photocopy first and maybe sent it 'recorded delivery' if they are likely to be dificult

hope things get better for you soon.

as an afterthought - i've found this page on action on depression website which seems fairly good, although be aware they are a scottish organisation, some bits of law may be different from england, and some of the links are scottish organisations.

time to change may also be worth a look.


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## cesare (Sep 15, 2015)

If Allan is dismissed because of depression, that would probably be a disability discrimination claim first and foremost.


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 15, 2015)

cesare said:


> If Allan is dismissed because of depression, that would probably be a disability discrimination claim first and foremost.



i'm aware that you're a lot more up to date with these things than i am (it's been a few years since i was s union rep) - but would it be?  or would that only apply if (as per EG's post) it's a condition that has lasted - or is likely to last - 12 months or more?

ETA - and if it did fall under a disability discrimination claim, then the 2 years' employment rule wouldn't apply, would it?


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## cesare (Sep 15, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> i'm aware that you're a lot more up to date with these things than i am (it's been a few years since i was s union rep) - but would it be?  or would that only apply if (as per EG's post) it's a condition that has lasted - or is likely to last - 12 months or more?
> 
> ETA - and if it did fall under a disability discrimination claim, then the 2 years' employment rule wouldn't apply, would it?


It would apply if it was a condition likely to last 12 months+  plus have a substantial adverse effect on the person's ability to carry out day to day activities. If those conditions are fulfilled the two year continuous service rule wouldn't apply.

The poster says it will be a month off work but the condition isn't necessarily just during the signing off period.


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