# Civilization V and VI



## al (Mar 10, 2010)

Prepare to spend a lot of time in front of the computer...


http://kotaku.com/5489814/civilization-v-preview-small-changes-big-differences

http://www.civilization5.com/


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## Bob_the_lost (Mar 10, 2010)

WANT


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## Stigmata (Mar 10, 2010)

I just downloaded the Civ Gold mod. It adds maybe 50-60 more civs to the Civ4 game. Israel, Maori, Poland, Indonesia, Haida, Getai, Jomon, Tibet, Nubia...


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2010)

Oh dear god no, goodbye 2011...



Stigmata said:


> I just downloaded the Civ Gold mod. It adds maybe 50-60 more civs to the Civ4 game. Israel, Maori, Poland, Indonesia, Haida, Getai, Jomon, Tibet, Nubia...



Do you have a link for that? Ta


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## Dillinger4 (Mar 10, 2010)

oh. my. GOSH. 

I must own this.


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## Dillinger4 (Mar 10, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> I just downloaded the Civ Gold mod. It adds maybe 50-60 more civs to the Civ4 game. Israel, Maori, Poland, Indonesia, Haida, Getai, Jomon, Tibet, Nubia...



YES link please.

I imagine it adds more buildings/units as well then?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2010)

The game hasn't changed enough to keep my interest. It's always the same deal but with flashier (and, in the case of advisors, more annoying) graphics. They've never really out-done Civ II, imo.


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## Stigmata (Mar 10, 2010)

Here it is

Yeah, each civ has it's own unique unit and building- Welsh Longbows for the Welsh, Cricket Gound for the West Indies etc. Only downside is that it takes a LONG time to load, something like 8-10 minutes each time you want to play.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2010)

Oh, it's just a mod and not the next version of the game...

/assumption


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## Epona (Mar 10, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> The game hasn't changed enough to keep my interest. It's always the same deal but with flashier (and, in the case of advisors, more annoying) graphics. They've never really out-done Civ II, imo.



CIV II Test of Time remains my favourite variation on the theme, although I've been a stalwart fan since the start of the series.  IV is vastly superior to III though, but I just wish they had made it possible to do multi-layered maps like in Test of Time.



Citizen66 said:


> Oh, it's just a mod and not the next version of the game...
> 
> /assumption



The link for the mod is cos I and someone else requested it once it was mentioned, there is going to be a CIV V though, out in the autumn


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2010)

Epona said:


> there is going to be a CIV V though, out in the autumn



And no doubt Ill buy it, despite slagging it off.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 11, 2010)

Want! I love the Civ series!


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## XerxesVargas (Mar 11, 2010)

Shit, there goes more hours.


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## kained&able (Mar 11, 2010)

Really didn't like civ3 and didn't bother at all with 4.

I await reviews of this one eagerly.


dave


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2010)

I liked 4 but agree 3 was a bit filler...this looks like it could be quite good.


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## Stigmata (Mar 14, 2010)

Religion was a great addition to Civ4


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## kained&able (Mar 14, 2010)

I was never happy with the AI levels in civ as well. I could dominate on the second level but third(prince?) i found far to difficult.

I hope they have sorted this out for me, i need a minor earl difficulty or something.


dave


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 15, 2010)

I preferred III over IV. 

Alpha Centauri - now that was a fucking game.


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## Dillinger4 (Mar 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I preferred III over IV.
> 
> Alpha Centauri - now that was a fucking game.



oh my fucking god yes.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 15, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> oh my fucking god yes.



I knew you were a man of taste.

I've never been able to get it to work on a mac, despite there apparently being a couple of downloadable doo-dads that supposedly make it runable. Shame - it fucking owns.


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## Epona (Mar 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I preferred III over IV.
> 
> Alpha Centauri - now that was a fucking game.


Alpha Centauri was a great game.  I have a feeling that someone did a CIV 4 mod along those lines too, was called Planetfall or something like that?  Not played it myself so can't offer any opinions/recommendations.


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## Dillinger4 (Mar 15, 2010)

I also remember one of the other versions of civilization, I think it was Civilization: Call to Power, developed by Activision, which I remember enjoying, because you could build in the sea and eventually in space as well.


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## Stigmata (Mar 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I preferred III over IV.
> 
> Alpha Centauri - now that was a fucking game.



The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress...


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## Dillinger4 (Mar 15, 2010)

Stigmata said:


> The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress...



Which was your favourite 'civilization' (cant think of the right term for the game) to play as? Mine was the UN one. Although The Hive were also very cool. Obviously.


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## Dillinger4 (Mar 15, 2010)

FACTION.

That is the word I was looking for.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Alpha Centauri - now that was a fucking game.



It was just Civilisation in space!


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## Random (Mar 16, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> It was just Civilisation in space!



no, it was far better than civ 3 and even better than civ 2.



> I don't know but I've been told, Deirdre's got a network node


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## Stigmata (Mar 16, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> Which was your favourite 'civilization' (cant think of the right term for the game) to play as? Mine was the UN one. Although The Hive were also very cool. Obviously.



The University of Planet, with their glossy technocratic utopia built on the foundations of creepy Mengele-type research. And that cool Russian faction leader who always complained about religious nuts.

Although the expansion factions were pretty lame overall, I liked the Cyborgs.


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## Bob_the_lost (Mar 16, 2010)

Random said:


> no, it was far better than civ 3 and even better than civ 2.



I concur. Definitely better than Civ3 and slightly edging out civ 2.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 16, 2010)

kained&able said:


> Really didn't like civ3 and didn't bother at all with 4.
> 
> dave



Civ 4 was a mighty improvement on Civ 3, and with the Beyond the Sword upgrade it finally took over from Civ 2 as my all time favourite game.  Plus it's moddable as fuck, and the civfanatics community worked wonders - Fall from Heaven isn't even really the same game as vanilla, for example

Civ 5 sounds intriguing - just hope this old wreck of a machine can run it.
Some interesting rumoured changes - hexagonal tiles was always going to happen at some point, unaligned city states, only one unit per tile(?? ), resources expire, religion removed.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2010)

Random said:


> no, it was far better than civ 3 and even better than civ 2.



Why? Because they painted the green bits silver?


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## lemontop (Mar 16, 2010)

.


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## tommers (Mar 16, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Why? Because they painted the green bits silver?



customisable units.

the factions were cool.  Not just "you get +1 for banks" but properly different.

It was a great game.


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## Stigmata (Mar 16, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Why? Because they painted the green bits silver?



Red-brown hactually

Alpha Centauri was a great game because each faction was entirely distinct and not just a name and a colour. It was also packed full of proper good science fiction concepts and ideas, like the energy-based economy. And you could build underwater cities.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2010)

tommers said:


> customisable units.
> 
> the factions were cool.  Not just "you get +1 for banks" but properly different.
> 
> It was a great game.





Stigmata said:


> Red-brown hactually
> 
> Alpha Centauri was a great game because each faction was entirely distinct and not just a name and a colour. It was also packed full of proper good science fiction concepts and ideas, like the energy-based economy. And you could build underwater cities.



Ah, I'm just pulling your leg really. It was such a long time ago but it did just feel like I'd bought civilisation twice. Perhaps I didn't give it enough of a chance.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2010)

Due for release on September 24th apparently. Can't wait.


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## ericjarvis (Jun 13, 2010)

Dillinger4 said:


> Which was your favourite 'civilization' (cant think of the right term for the game) to play as? Mine was the UN one. Although The Hive were also very cool. Obviously.



I generally tended to role play even more with Alpha Centauri than with Civ. So my faves were the Greens (gentle, slightly hippyish, and so fanatically environmentalist that the slightest hint of pollution from another faction meant they HAD to be wiped out), The Hive (with settlements and units that had alphanumeric designations and not names).


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## al (Jun 16, 2010)

lovely, lovely screenshots...

http://kotaku.com/5564652/civilization-vs-screenshots-are-taking-over-our-world/gallery/


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 16, 2010)

Very nice! Can't wait!


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## Stigmata (Jun 17, 2010)

I don't know why but after playing all the Civ games this one just doesn't grab me. It looks too much like a board game. This mechanic whereby archery units have ranged fire doesn't sit right with the scale of the map either.


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## Flavour (Jun 17, 2010)

DONT CARE

WANT


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 7, 2010)

I've just downloaded Civ IV through Steam for Mac. First time I've really played it properly. Where can I get mods? (And will they work on my Mac?)


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## Emerald Toucan (Sep 9, 2010)

Out 2 weeks tomorrow, can't wait it looks fantastic.

A video showing some of the new features

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationv/video/6275453?tag=topslot;title;2


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## The Groke (Sep 9, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've just downloaded Civ IV through Steam for Mac. First time I've really played it properly. Where can I get mods? (And will they work on my Mac?)


 
civfanatics.com has all the mods you could need and some great beginners guides.

I would really recommend getting By The Sword as well - the add ons, mods and everything else in it make it well worthwhile.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2010)

Please let the Mac version not take too long..!


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 9, 2010)

Emerald Toucan said:


> Out 2 weeks tomorrow, can't wait it looks fantastic.
> 
> A video showing some of the new features
> 
> http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationv/video/6275453?tag=topslot;title;2



oh god that looks fantastic 

Yes, hope it's not too long for the Mac *drools*


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## tommers (Sep 9, 2010)

I want it.  I hope my graphics card can run it.


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## kained&able (Sep 9, 2010)

i was looking for something epic now that i have finished final fantasy.

this should do!!!

Oh and lol at mac users wanting games.

dave


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2010)

kained&able said:


> i was looking for something epic now that i have finished final fantasy.
> 
> this should do!!!
> 
> ...


 
Eh? I've been a gamer for over 25 years, why does that change now I own a Mac?!


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## kained&able (Sep 10, 2010)

beacuse macs never get games ported straight away on acocunt of them not being games machines.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 10, 2010)

Macs are for video editing and music production.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 10, 2010)

shit troll is shit.


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## Chz (Sep 10, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Eh? I've been a gamer for over 25 years, why does that change now I own a Mac?!


The only thing that changes is your expectations. Expectations that only 35% of the main titles will make it to your platform of choice (and I'm being generous there). Expectations that you're going to bloody well *have* to dual-boot to Windows 7 to play any of them that aren't ported over. Expectations that you're going to be raped if you want to upgrade the GPU - though given that you'd have had to afford a Mac Pro in the first place to be even able to upgrade, it's unlikely to phase you.

But you being a gamer shouldn't change.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2010)

Chz said:


> The only thing that changes is your expectations. Expectations that only 35% of the main titles will make it to your platform of choice (and I'm being generous there). Expectations that you're going to bloody well *have* to dual-boot to Windows 7 to play any of them that aren't ported over. Expectations that you're going to be raped if you want to upgrade the GPU - though given that you'd have had to afford a Mac Pro in the first place to be even able to upgrade, it's unlikely to phase you.
> 
> But you being a gamer shouldn't change.


 
Erm, well I don't care about the majority of games, gave up being a computer gamer long ago and am now very happy as a console gamer. But...Civ games have in the past been released on the Mac and my point is I hope this doesn't take too long...


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## teccuk (Sep 10, 2010)

Mac or not. Just as bad for me. Damn thing barely makes the recommended specs. I can't bare 4 much longer, started playing 3 again. 

Hmm, maybe get on ebay and create a mutant upgrade monster with the side permanently off, with wires and extra fans that barely work everywhere, along with badly fitted hard drives like all my previous PC's. Which have been known to actually genuinely literally go *bang* with smoke and everything.


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## Epona (Sep 12, 2010)

teccuk said:


> Hmm, maybe get on ebay and create a mutant upgrade monster with the side permanently off, with wires and extra fans that barely work everywhere, along with badly fitted hard drives like all my previous PC's. Which have been known to actually genuinely literally go *bang* with smoke and everything.


 
 sounds familiar, my old PC was a bit like that, massive overheating problems and could only run it with the case open.  Actually my last 2 PCs have literally gone bang   I'm looking after the new one.


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## teccuk (Sep 13, 2010)

Haha! Nice to know i'm not the only one...

Tempted by a new PC though :/


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## Epona (Sep 14, 2010)

teccuk said:


> Haha! Nice to know i'm not the only one...
> 
> Tempted by a new PC though :/


 
I think it's because for the last 6 years or so I've been getting by with a succession of older PCs (ok 2) and upgrading for as long as possible sometimes it gets to the point where a knackered old PSU simply can't handle it all - even if the load is within what it might have been able to manage when new - and something's got to give.  The most dramatic PC death in my case actually caused part of the motherboard to melt and scorch-marks on the inside of the case before the circuit breaker I use cut off the power.

Fortunately the most recent of my old PCs still runs (using it for internet and downloads, we need 2 PCs anyway), just it wasn't worth the £60 to replace the graphics card with similar when the fan on it failed, the exact same thing would have continued to happen.  I've stuck an old graphics card in there and it's now very stable, hasn't overheated once since then.  Main problem with that PC was that nothing on it was standard and could be easily replaced or upgraded, 2 CPUs with an air extraction unit (which is quite possibly the noisiest I have ever heard) and the processors so close together there's no room to mount better fans, one of the sockets very close to the AGP slot contributing to overheating, and a PSU that is not ATX shape.  There just comes a point when you throw your hands up in the air and admit that you can't do any more to it!

I built my new PC last month and I'm thrilled with it


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## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2010)

Emerald Toucan said:


> Out 2 weeks tomorrow, can't wait it looks fantastic.
> 
> A video showing some of the new features
> 
> http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationv/video/6275453?tag=topslot;title;2


 
I've gotta admit, after watching that I'm pretty excited. I hope my PC spec is adequate. Seems like it will be for minimum spec:

Minimum specs:

* Operating System: Windows XP SP3/ Windows Vista SP2/ Windows 7
* Processor: Dual Core CPU
* Memory: 2GB RAM
* Hard Disk Space: 8 GB Free
* DVD-ROM Drive: Required for disc-based installation
* Video: 256 MB ATI HD2600 XT or better, 256 MB nVidia 7900 GS or better, or Core i3 or better integrated graphics
* Sound: DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
* DirectX: DirectX version 9.0c

Recommended specs:

* Operating System: Windows Vista SP2/ Windows 7
* Processor: 1.8 GHz Quad Core CPU
* Memory: 4 GB RAM
* Hard Disk Space: 8 GB Free
* DVD-ROM Drive: Required for disc-based installation
* Video: 512 MB ATI 4800 series or better, 512 MB nVidia 9800 series or better
* Sound: DirectX 9.0c-compatible sound card
* DirectX: DirectX version 11

Where do I find out my PC spec?


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## The Groke (Sep 20, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Where do I find out my PC spec?



Easiest way is to go to the Start menu and (depending on what version of windows you have) select "run", type "dxdiag" (sans quotes) in the text-field and hit enter. 

If you have Windows 7 or Vista you should be able to type dxdiag straight into the search bar from the bottom of the Start menu and do the same thing.

The DXdiag tool will run  and a new Window will appear. The first screen/tab should have details on your processor, operating system and RAM and the second tab along the top should contain all the details about your graphics card.


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## The Groke (Sep 20, 2010)

To add:

"Minimum specs" really does mean the bare minimum that the game needs to start and run. It doesn't mean it will run particularly well and may be an unsatisfactory experience.


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## The Groke (Sep 20, 2010)

To further add:

If you have bought a generic, big-brand home "general usage" computer in the last 2-3 years and it was decent spec when you bought it, it should probably scrape the minimum requirements. The most likely weak point will be the graphics card.

If you bought a "gaming ready" or "high end machine" you are probably fine.

Anything much older than 3 years will be very unlikely to have a dual-core CPU and quite possibly less than 2Gb RAM too.


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## BigTom (Sep 20, 2010)

yeah, I'm hoping it's not too slow on my 3 yr old machine bought for video editing.. dual core cpu's but 4 gig ram, not sure what the graphics card is but it's only a year old so it should be fine. am seriously contemplating getting a new bare bones quad core if it is not up to the job.  This is why I try to stay behind the times on computer games now, but civ is my achilles heel.. must play new civ..


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## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2010)

I have a 512mb graphics card so its just whether processor and memory are enough although memory is easy enough to upgrade. Doing a clean reinstall at the moment so will check spec in a bit. Cheers for the info.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2010)

Hmmm so this will run how well on a brand new 13" MacBook Pro..?


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## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2010)

When its finally released for the mac, yes.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 21, 2010)

System

Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual  CPU  E2220  @ 2.40GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 3072MB RAM

gfx

Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 9500 GT
Display Memory: 512.0 MB

That should be ok especially if I add another gig ram, eh?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> When its finally released for the mac, yes.


 
Yeah......


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## Epona (Sep 21, 2010)

The Groke said:


> To add:
> 
> "Minimum specs" really does mean the bare minimum that the game needs to start and run. It doesn't mean it will run particularly well and may be an unsatisfactory experience.


 
Oh for sure, sometimes games can be really disappointing on a minimum spec PC - I recall when I first got NWN2 it was so laggy on the minimum spec PC I had at the time it was virtually unplayable, that game was a real resource hog, I only got good performance on it a couple of years later once I had exceeded the recommended spec (and had 2x 3.05 GHz cpus and a 512Mb gpu, ridiculous for a game released in 2006!)  Last time I upgraded my old PC (at the time my only PC) it was for CIV 4 because it would only just run on the minimum spec and I kept getting CTDs during the late stages of the game because the PC was struggling even on the lowest settings.  IME the minimum spec does not necessarily guarantee a stable performance, it's just the bare minimum that you can start the game with.

The demo should be out on Steam now (or soon) though iirc, so if anyone is concerned that they may not be able to run the game that would be the best way to check it out.

Will be getting it Friday, the OH has booked 3 weeks off so that we can do multiplayer


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## The Groke (Sep 21, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> System
> 
> Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual  CPU  E2220  @ 2.40GHz (2 CPUs)
> Memory: 3072MB RAM
> ...



You _should _be Ok yeah.

You will likely have to tweak the graphics settings down to get the smoothest performance out of it. As I suspected, the graphics card is the weakest link here - it isn't just the graphics memory that is the decider, it is the architecture of the card itself and yours is getting on a wee bit and was never a power-house to start with.

Good news is that if you get the game and it doesn't run as well as you would like, then you could get the extra 1Gb RAM and a better GPU for a fairly small investment.

It really just depends on how scalable the various options are. If the game has been well designed and implemented you should be able to get it looking nice and running well, though with all Civ games it might start to chug a big towards the end, especially if you have a big map with lots of AI opponents!


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## The Groke (Sep 21, 2010)

Epona said:


> Will be getting it Friday, the OH has booked 3 weeks off so that we can do multiplayer



Will be playing tonight all being well! With my VPN I can convince Steam I am physically in the US so the full game will unlock on the US release today.


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## Epona (Sep 21, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Will be playing tonight all being well! With my VPN I can convince Steam I am physically in the US so the full game will unlock on the US release today.



Gah, not sure whether to be envious or not.  On the one hand it would be nice to be able to try it out before my potentially home-wrecking tournament.  On the other hand, every previous CIV multiplayer game I have had to play with a handicap of 2 difficulty settings higher than the OH just to make it a fair contest and then sometimes still letting him win, getting extra practice at it before Friday while he is still at work will probably not do anything to promote domestic harmony!!!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 21, 2010)

the perils of domestic gaming

i've never  been good at civ....  i like  stuff like age of empires  and the total war  series  (although not some much the battles in TW) but  for some reason i never  seem to  do that  well when playing civ

  mind you the only civ i've played  recently is civ III (got it cheap on steam)


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## The Groke (Sep 21, 2010)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> mind you the only civ i've played  recently is civ III (got it cheap on steam)



I never got on with any of them until IV and from what I can gather V takes all the bits I loved about IV and refines them and improves the one thing I really didn't like which was the combat.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 21, 2010)

slightly tempted... but to be honest i have fucking tons of games on steam i never play

seriously  i have like 120 games on steam  and   i play  maybe an hour or two a week

i  start to get into games  but  then for whatever reason i stop and i find it  really hard to get back into them... i guess partly  because they are such  a time sink


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## ringo (Sep 21, 2010)

This is the only game I play, have enjoyed all the versions so looking forward to this one - bought new laptop at weekend so that I can play it, old one was falling over by the time i reached the Renaissance period.

Looks like some interesting changes in this version, check the changes here http://well-of-souls.com/civ/

Doesn't look like such an option to just steam roller the other nations any more - I might have to learn diplomacy


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 21, 2010)

Since it'll be an age before it comes to the Mac, I might dig out my copy of Civ II for my ps3. I reckon they should bring back the Civ II music


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## Citizen66 (Sep 21, 2010)

I've been playing civ IV recently to get myself excited. Genuinely looking forward to this.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 21, 2010)

What seems a good idea is that you can't unit stack either on a terrain hex or in a city meaning you're forced to think about your military options permanently from the off. All previous versions of the game could get pretty boring when there was no war.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 21, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> What seems a good idea is that you can't unit stack either on a terrain hex or in a city meaning you're forced to think about your military options permanently from the off. All previous versions of the game could get pretty boring when there was no war.


 
Yep. I've got a game of Civ IV on the go where I'm piling up my modern armour on someone's borders ready to send the buggers back to the stone age. I guess it does take a bit of the fun out of it when you can pile 'em high and knock 'em down in one turn.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2010)

There's no religion in this one? John Lennon would be happy.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 21, 2010)

I quite liked religion in IV. I send out loads of missionaries to foreign cities to reveal fog and free espionage and select theology so they couldn't do the same back.


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## The Groke (Sep 21, 2010)

Gah - obviously a fairy big zero-day patch as mine is unlocked and has been downloading at a pathetic 300k or so for the last 50 minutes.

Grrr.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2010)

£23.98 for Civ 5.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 21, 2010)

I can't afford this 'til pay day booo. Just played the demo which obviously only lasts long enough to annoy you. Seems pretty good. Looking forward to playing the whole thing.


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## The Groke (Sep 22, 2010)

Ok...

My initial thoughts after 300-odd turns:

The Good:

Looks great! The map, the fog of war and the units all polish up beautifully
The Interface is much improved - far easier to see what you need to know when you need to know it
More granular automation - you can sill micro-manage individual hexes if you want, but you can auto focus your cities production on gold, science, production, food, great people or whatever.
Hexes > squares! I like the hexes - gives the map a more organic feel and tightens up the combat
Combat is much improved - the removal of the Stack of Doom technique and it's replacement with a more tactical, chess like approach is most welcome.
Overall presentation - top notch. The full page leader screens and their talking to you in their own language is a nice touch.

The not-sure-yet:


Happiness is nation-based rather than city based. Seems almost too easy to manage so far, but then I am only playing on Chieften at the moment.
Social policies replacing civics - I quite like the decisive and immediate effect implementing new policies has on your game. Still not sure that I like the idea better than the old civics system and see also
No religion or espionage...I think I miss these at the moment, but time will tell. I guess they will be heading our way in an expansion pack at some point.
Music seems a bit wallpapery. I adored the sound track to Civ IV and found it very evocative. This is pretty forgettable so far.

The Bad


Diplomacy seems pretty b0rked. *sigh*. You get no feedback or clues as to why someone does or doesn't like you - you just have to guess. Even if you are pretty sure they do like you, they seem to flip in an instant from "buddies" to declaring war for no good reason....and thus...
The game seems too war focussed so far. AI is obtusely aggressive and as someone who much prefers the non-domination route to victory, I can see this getting a bit trying.


Bear in mind that all the above is from half a game or so - it may well be that I haven't got to grips with some of the finer nuances yet.

Overall I am left with the feeling that this is better than vanilla Civ IV but not as good as BTS...


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## The Groke (Sep 23, 2010)

Some more thoughts:

The Good!

The games potential complexities are being slowly revealed! There are more options for customising your tactics and output than I initially thought and all though some may think that it initially looks "dumbed-down" from Civ IV, give it a chance. It is a different _kind_ of "complex".
Combat really is much, much better - I used to try and avoid it as I hated Stack 'O Doom, but now I look forward to my battles.
 Has been completely stable and runs really well on my machine, (though it is still fairly _high_ spec). Oddly though, the AI turns always seemed to take noticeably longer than IV, even in the early game but don't seem to get much longer as the game progresses.
City States are a great addition - they have been invaluable so far in establishing strategic resources that I have not had access to without having to embark on a war I wasn't ready for.
 ...and on the subject, I like the fact that the number of strategic resources you have access to offer hard caps on the units they fuel - gives you a good reason to expand your city in a specific direction or go to war with a neighbour just to get your hands on some more Uranium.
...and on _that_ subject, I like the fact you can purchase specific tiles to expand you city. Your boundaries grow in a far more organic way now, rather than just expanding evenly in a predictable shape.
 I also love the fact that once you have the requisite technologies, all land units can "embark" and travel across coasts or sea without having to fanny around with building transport ships for them. They are however _exceedingly_ vulnerable, so you still need to provide a suitable escort to protect them on their journey
 It seems that it is equally possible to win with a small, focussed Empire of 4-5 cities (and maybe some puppet cities and allied City States) as it is with a huge, sprawling realm. Indeed, you need to make judicious use of the relevant social policies to make sure your happiness and gold can actually support large numbers of cities.
No longer having the "Big Fat Cross" to work your city on is weird at first, but I am getting used to the idea.
The new "strategic view" gives you a lovely, sharp, alternative "boardgame-like" view of the game map and tiles and allows you to clearly see all the resources, land and empires - very nice. You could easily play the whole game like this should it take your fancy

Not so good!

AI still seems a little dumb at times, with it making weird decisions both in diplomacy and in battle. Occasionally it should have finished off my most threatening unit in a turn, but instead it ran off and attacked something far less relevant or held off attacking at all. Of course, this could just be down to the difficulty I am playing - maybe Prince and higher will kick my arse.
Few small bugs in the interface and game - nothing major or game breaking and I am sure a patch or two will resolve it
 Some quirky aspects of the interface and icons make finding somethings trickier than before and can make the City tiles a little confusing (this can be solved by using the strategic view though)
 Some options well hidden! Took me a while to find out where to turn the hex grid on (highly recommended - movement can be confusing without it) or how to rename my veteran units.
 Civilopedia is nicely integrated into the game but oddly vague on some aspects.

and a final few notes before you play:

The game either seems easier than IV on the same difficulty level or possibly it just suits my amateurish play-style! In any case, I seem to be steam-rolling the opposition on my usual wimpy "Chieftain" difficulty (yeah I know ), so I think I will hit "Prince" next game which offers no bonuses to happiness etc and starts everyone off on an even footing.
It is also worth noting that the games seem a bit longer/slower as well.
I am playing a large map on Epic and it seems almost like "Marathon" from Civ IV. Not a bad thing at all, but bear it in mind if your time is limited.


----------



## tommers (Sep 23, 2010)

I only played the demo last night but I couldn't find the civilopedia?  I wanted to see what roads do this time, they don't seem to add trade any more?


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## Citizen66 (Sep 23, 2010)

Did you read that earlier link? There's some info in there.

http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_improvements.html


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## The Groke (Sep 23, 2010)

tommers said:


> I only played the demo last night but I couldn't find the civilopedia?  I wanted to see what roads do this time, they don't seem to add trade any more?


 
Don't know if the full Civilopedia is in the demo...

if it is, you can either access it from the "help" menu at the top right of the screen or by double clicking on certain information icons in the game and from the advisors screen.

Roads: You now get charged 1g maintenance for each hex with a road improvement, though I think you can reduce this with certain Civic policies.

You don't gain any trade/financial benefit from linking your tile improvements with your city (I don't think - not that I have noticed) but units will move significantly faster over roads, especially with later tech.

You DO need to build routes from your capital to your outlying cities as well as to cities states or AI players in order to gain trade benefits or strategic/luxury resource tributes from Allied City states.


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## tommers (Sep 23, 2010)

The Groke said:


> You DO need to build routes from your capital to your outlying cities as well as to cities states or AI players in order to gain trade benefits or strategic/luxury resource tributes from Allied City states.



Really?  I allied with a city state and they gave me Wine and it upped my happiness.  There were no roads between our cities.


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## tommers (Sep 23, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Did you read that earlier link? There's some info in there.
> 
> http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_improvements.html



Ah, no, I hadn't seen that.  Thanks.


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## The Groke (Sep 23, 2010)

tommers said:


> Really?  I allied with a city state and they gave me Wine and it upped my happiness.  There were no roads between our cities.


 
Weird...

I could have sworn that I was allied to a CS and suddenly the "Received X" notifications popped up only upon completing a route to my capital!

I could have also sworn that I then got the "trade route" icon below that city state.

Of course I may be wrong or an idiot or both.


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## tommers (Sep 23, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Weird...
> 
> I could have sworn that I was allied to a CS and suddenly the "Received X" notifications popped up only upon completing a route to my capital!
> 
> ...



Yeah, I think the trade route is if you connect... but the resources seem to come anyway.  I dunno, I'll check it out tonight. 

What's worrying me more is that I'm reading that link and seeing loads of things in IV that I never knew were there... airships?  stealth destroyers?  corporate executives?  eh?

then again I never even had a great general.  I'm a lover not a fighter.


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## The Groke (Sep 23, 2010)

tommers said:


> loads of things in IV that I never knew were there... airships?  stealth destroyers?  corporate executives?  eh?



Yeah - depends on your tech focus really! Some of these (execs) were only available in the expansions as well. I never really used corporations much in BTS to be honest.



tommers said:


> then again I never even had a great general.  I'm a lover not a fighter.



Me too usually. I have been forced to fight in this last game - the map was two huge continents with a couple of tiny islands with City States on.

I shared my continent with Egypt, France and another Civ - all of which were fairly near and fairly angsty about it.

Still - once I wiped the floor with them, the other continent-dwelling civs have left me alone to peruse my science victory...so far. I may need to take the Ottomans down a peg or two though as they are right behind me score-wise.

It is 1902 and I am building my first nuclear missile and sub. I figure I will leave it lurking just off the coast and use it as a deterrent to keep them off my back. If it seems they are getting close to a victory later on, I can always push the button.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 23, 2010)

Nuking is a bad idea. It universally pisses everyone off and the climate change leads to starvation. I always found civ to be a bit boring without war. You just spend hours clicking the mouse as you jump through the hoops of technological advances. I might get civ 5 this weekend. Anyone up for a multiplayer game at some point?


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## The Groke (Sep 23, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Nuking is a bad idea. It universally pisses everyone off and the climate change leads to starvation.



true...but:

There are just 3 civs left in the game; myself, the Ottomans and the British. The poor Brits are miles behind and on the same continent as the Ottomans.

I have 1 huge landmass to myself.

I am buttering up the Brits to try and get them to declare war on the Ottomans to keep them busy whilst I crack on with my research and builds.

If it does all go wrong and the Ottomans suddenly have a crack at me, I will have no qualms about nuking their top city so as not to get bogged down in an epic war that will take me away from my science victory attempt. I don't really care if I piss off the Brits - they are no threat to me - and the support of the City States that I am not allied with isn't too relevant as I am not trying for a diplomatic victory.

I also don't care about screwing up the other continent - it is too far away to affect me!


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 23, 2010)

Oh Groke, you're making me pine for this big time. It sounds awesome. Great breakdown of the features


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## tommers (Sep 23, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Oh Groke, you're making me pine for this big time. It sounds awesome. Great breakdown of the features


 
it's out tomorrow!  Not long to wait.


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## Epona (Sep 23, 2010)

tommers said:


> What's worrying me more is that I'm reading that link and seeing loads of things in IV that I never knew were there... airships?  stealth destroyers?  corporate executives?  eh?


 
They were all added by Beyond the Sword - corporations were great but it took me several games before I really understood what I was doing with them and knew how to get the best out of them.


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## tommers (Sep 23, 2010)

Epona said:


> They were all added by Beyond the Sword - corporations were great but it took me several games before I really understood what I was doing with them and knew how to get the best out of them.



ah... I didn't buy that bit.  It would explain things.  I thought there were whole swathes of the game I never saw.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 23, 2010)

tommers said:


> it's out tomorrow!  Not long to wait.


 
Mac. Aspyr are supposed to be 'announcing something official' soon, but I have no idea if it relates to this or not. I bloody hope it does.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 23, 2010)

Looking like I'll get this tomorrow as I can't wait. I hope shops aren't completely sold out of it.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 23, 2010)

You can download the instruction manual here (pdf)


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## ringo (Sep 24, 2010)

Pre-ordered from Steam so loaded it last night and decrypted this morning. Just had time to make sure it runs OK and play a couple of turns before heading off to work. Odd that the keypad didn't work straight off for movement but I guess thats configurable.

Tonight the kids will be going to bed at 6pm!


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## tommers (Sep 24, 2010)

ringo said:


> Pre-ordered from Steam so loaded it last night and decrypted this morning. Just had time to make sure it runs OK and play a couple of turns before heading off to work. Odd that the keypad didn't work straight off for movement but I guess thats configurable.
> 
> Tonight the kids will be going to bed at 6pm!



heh.  I can't afford it till next Tuesday (payday).  It's my son't first birthday this weekend and we've got the in laws down so, all in all, that's probably a good thing.  It's best that my son's memories of his first birthday aren't of his dad swearing at the Russians.


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## kained&able (Sep 24, 2010)

play against the germans tommers, then that is good parenting!


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2010)

tommers said:


> It's best that my son's memories of his first birthday aren't of his dad swearing at the Russians.



I don't know, that sounds like the kind of parenting that will prepare him well for the political realities he'll experience when he grows up if you ask me...


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## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

Bought this today. So that's the whole weekend taken care of, then.


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## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Bought this today. So that's the whole weekend taken care of, then.



Like most new Civs it seems to have polarised the Civ community!

Problem is, a lot of the complaints merely berate it for not being Civ IV with better graphics which is lame. If you are not going to throw in some major mechanic changes, why bother? Becomes another cynical franchise-milk like Gears of War, Halo or Modern Warfare etc.

Yes it does need a _bit_ of work, a bit of patching and fine-tuning but hey, I am loving it!


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## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

Tbh I thought civ 4 had become a bit tired. And plus I'm old (ish) so I've been playing it since civ I. Disallowing unit stacks which have been part of the game in all the versions is a massive step in the right direction imo and adds a whole new dimension of thinking about how to use your military for both attacking and defending. It's installing now so I'll give my verdict in a bit.


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## Epona (Sep 24, 2010)

I haven't got it yet.  There is a bit of a saga going on, my OH is on leave for 3 weeks as of today and it's payday so after a much needed lie in he headed to the bank to pay bills.  Then he went to East Ham to pick up Civ 5.  It was priced at £35 so he thought sod that and went elsewhere to see if he could find it cheaper.  Thus started a 2 hour round trip by bus to Stratford and Beckton looking for a copy.  After I berated him a bit on the phone (only a bit mind, cos I could have told him that going to Beckton was a waste of time) he went back to East Ham to grit his teeth and hand over the cash.  When he got to the till they apologised to him and told him it had the wrong price sticker on it and it was much cheaper, then wondered why he looked close to tears.  Not a great start to his leave!


----------



## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Oh Groke, you're making me pine for this big time. It sounds awesome. Great breakdown of the features


 


I worry your Mac may not cope with the system requirements though. (unless I am thinking of someone else's Mac!)

Mind you, no Mac version officially incoming yet, though I am sure it won't be long.


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## tommers (Sep 24, 2010)

Epona said:


> Not a great start to his leave!



Oh dear.   Good outcome in the end though!


----------



## tommers (Sep 24, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Problem is, a lot of the complaints merely berate it for not being Civ IV with better graphics which is lame.



I liked Civ IV.  I liked the religion and it's a shame that isn't in this one.

But you're right.  What's the point of releasing basically the same game (yes, GTA, I'm looking at you)?  If you love Civ IV that much then play Civ IV.

The only problem I have is that, with every new version, I keep forgetting that things don't do the same as they used to.  I still rush for the Great Library and Gunpowder when both have been de-powered since Civ III.  I miss the Great Library.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 24, 2010)

The Groke said:


> I worry your Mac may not cope with the system requirements though. (unless I am thinking of someone else's Mac!)
> 
> Mind you, no Mac version officially incoming yet, though I am sure it won't be long.



I've just bought a new iMac, actually. The top end version of the current 21.5" i3 system.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 24, 2010)

tommers said:


> The only problem I have is that, with every new version, I keep forgetting that things don't do the same as they used to.  I still rush for the Great Library and Gunpowder when both have been de-powered since Civ III.  I miss the Great Library.


 
The Great Library was great ... Always went for the Pyramids straight off too.


----------



## ringo (Sep 24, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Like most new Civs it seems to have polarised the Civ community!



Yup, some interesting arguments on Civfanatics amongst those who have devoted their entire adult lives to it. Personally, despite playing it since Civ I, I never went in for such microscopic studying of the finer points, so hopefully will be enjoying the new streamlined playability of it.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've just bought a new iMac, actually. The top end version of the current 21.5" i3 system.



Then you should be fine!

(what graphics card?)

Have you considered boot-camping a Windows 7 install? Mac conversions are often a little flakier than the Win release anyway.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

tommers said:


> If you love Civ IV that much then play Civ IV.



Exactly! 

...and I do like Civ IV too.



ringo said:


> Yup, some interesting arguments on Civfanatics amongst those who have devoted their entire adult lives to it. Personally, despite playing it since Civ I, I never went in for such microscopic studying of the finer points, so hopefully will be enjoying the new streamlined playability of it.



Yeah - I don't have the obsessive nature to endless analyse the mathematics behind the game and formulate perfect strategies. I just play for fun and thus far No. 5 has given me plenty.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 24, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Then you should be fine!
> 
> (what graphics card?)
> 
> Have you considered boot-camping a Windows 7 install? Mac conversions are often a little flakier than the Win release anyway.



ATI Radeon HD 5670. Not having had a PC for years, and not having used one for gaming anyway (beyond Alpha Centauri and Civ 3 back in the day) I have little idea of what makes a good/decent graphics card. It seems to be running Half Life 2 perfectly well (aside: who knew a keyboard and mouse would make first person games playable? I can't do them at all on the xbox ). 

I've thought about bootcamp - it would make things easier. I'll have to find out more about it. I have no idea what it would entail, and there seem to be different ways of doing it (I hear things about VM, parallels, and all sorts of shit I don't understand). And I don't want to have to buy virus protection, dagnabbit  But on the plus side, I could pull out my old copy of Alpha Centauri


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## Epona (Sep 24, 2010)

There's no fucking hotseat option.  They took it out of the game.  We only bought the game, my OH only took 3 weeks off work, so we could have a hotseat tournament.  Apparently we have to wait for a patch which will come out at some point in the future.

Fucking fucking bastards, what a stupid fucking move.

*cries*


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

Epona said:


> I haven't got it yet.  There is a bit of a saga going on, my OH is on leave for 3 weeks as of today and it's payday so after a much needed lie in he headed to the bank to pay bills.  Then he went to East Ham to pick up Civ 5.  It was priced at £35 so he thought sod that and went elsewhere to see if he could find it cheaper.  Thus started a 2 hour round trip by bus to Stratford and Beckton looking for a copy.  After I berated him a bit on the phone (only a bit mind, cos I could have told him that going to Beckton was a waste of time) he went back to East Ham to grit his teeth and hand over the cash.  When he got to the till they apologised to him and told him it had the wrong price sticker on it and it was much cheaper, then wondered why he looked close to tears.  Not a great start to his leave!


 
I bought mine in Game in Stratford for thirty quid.

Ok, my two minor gripes thus far (for it is always the negative that I notice) is that the civilopedia isn't in alphabetic order like it used to be. If you want to find out about roads, for instance, you have to look under the correct heading for where it is and then search through all the different things that are in no particular order as opposed to finding the right letter and then you're on it. My second is that for some reason I 'discover' barbarian camps when there's absolutely no units even close to it. I then don't have any way (that I've discovered yet) of finding out which unit is the closest so I can raid it. So then I'm scrolling around the map looking... 

Of course all this might be a failure on my part but if it is me doing something wrong they've got the default settings switched to the not very intuitive version. 

Apart from that, it's great! 

e2a: Not really got my head around the city states yet either. As soon as we're 'friends' I have to keep indulging them in some way to remain so? Fuck that. Unless they have a resource that I desperately need they will remain ignored. And if their city is in a nice spot and then they'll become a target.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2010)

tommers said:


> I liked Civ IV.  I liked the religion and it's a shame that isn't in this one.
> 
> But you're right.  What's the point of releasing basically the same game (yes, GTA, I'm looking at you)?  If you love Civ IV that much then play Civ IV.
> 
> The only problem I have is that, with every new version, I keep forgetting that things don't do the same as they used to.  I still rush for the Great Library and Gunpowder when both have been de-powered since Civ III.  I miss the Great Library.



Yeah the Great Library was er great.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 24, 2010)

Epona said:


> There's no fucking hotseat option.  They took it out of the game.  We only bought the game, my OH only took 3 weeks off work, so we could have a hotseat tournament.  Apparently we have to wait for a patch which will come out at some point in the future.
> 
> Fucking fucking bastards, what a stupid fucking move.
> 
> *cries*


 
Dare I ask if you checked it'd have that mode first?


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## Epona (Sep 24, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Dare I ask if you checked it'd have that mode first?


 
It was confirmed on the official website that it was going to have hotseat until quite recently, it was dropped from initial release only recently, and I hadn't checked back as I had already checked several times that it was going to have hotseat.  Even as recently as a week before the US release there was some confusion on the civfanatics forum about whether it would be included.  LOADS of people have bought the game and been burned by it, many of those who like me didn't realise it had been dropped and mistakenly purchased it anyway, but also many people who preordered beforehand.  There are a lot of folks up in arms about it.

The MP on the game is fucked anyway by all accounts, no animations, inability to save the game, looks like they've just rushed through the MP part of it to meet the release date.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

Another gripe (or I may not have worked it out yet) is that I'm currently losing 9 gold a turn. In Civ IV I would drop the research slider back to keep my bank balance in order until such a time as I could put it back again. This is giving me memories of Civ I when it was harder to micro manage things and you started losing improvements if your balance dropped below zero.

e2a: If you go into individual cities and click on 'gold focus' it gives some breathing space. They better not start bloody starving now though!


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## tommers (Sep 24, 2010)

oh yeah... there's no research, culture, gold slider any more....  

Also - when you buy units or buildings it doesn't seem to give you a discount if you're already 3/4 of the way through building them.  So you can't hurry production, just buy things outright.


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## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> ATI Radeon HD 5670.



You should be ok then!



Vintage Paw said:


> I've thought about bootcamp - it would make things easier. I'll have to find out more about it.



It s fairly straight-forward and works very well.

You set it up so your HD is partitioned and when you start up you chose whether to boot into OSX or Windows. Once in Windows it behaves exactly like a PC.

You won't need VMWware unless you want to boot up that partition as a virtual machine when you are already in OS X...which won't work for games anyway.

Give us a yell if you need more info or get stuck.


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## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Another gripe (or I may not have worked it out yet) is that I'm currently losing 9 gold a turn. I



You do need to think a lot more about what buildings you build, your roads (don't spam them) how many cities you are maintaining and exactly how much maintenance it is all costing you.

If you are losing money you may be growing too fast. This is when your social policies start coming in handy as a number of them have direct and dramatic effects on upkeep etc.

As for the Barbarians, if you click on the notification token that drops on the right, it should show a light where the camp is, even if it is in the fog of war.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 24, 2010)

The Groke said:


> You should be ok then!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thanks  That does sound pretty easy. What do you windows folk use for virus protection these days? And where's the best place to get Windows 7, what version would I want, and will I have to do all those dreadful service pack updates? Ugh. 

VP: Perfect Mac Customer


----------



## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Thanks  That does sound pretty easy. What do you windows folk use for virus protection these days? And where's the best place to get Windows 7, what version would I want, and will I have to do all those dreadful service pack updates? Ugh.
> 
> VP: Perfect Mac Customer



Either AVG or Avast are free and fine or even the Microsoft Security Essentials which is also free.

You only need Home Premium edition (presume you get a hefty student discount?) and yes, there are still security updates...though it really is their best OS to date and has hardly made me cry at all.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

tommers said:


> oh yeah... there's no research, culture, gold slider any more....
> 
> Also - when you buy units or buildings it doesn't seem to give you a discount if you're already 3/4 of the way through building them.  So you can't hurry production, just buy things outright.


 
I just spent a fortune upgrading my hoplites (specific unit to the Greeks) to pikemen... before realising they had just gone from strength 9 .... to strength 10! haha


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## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

The Groke said:


> You do need to think a lot more about what buildings you build, your roads (don't spam them) how many cities you are maintaining and exactly how much maintenance it is all costing you.
> 
> If you are losing money you may be growing too fast. This is when your social policies start coming in handy as a number of them have direct and dramatic effects on upkeep etc.
> 
> As for the Barbarians, if you click on the notification token that drops on the right, it should show a light where the camp is, even if it is in the fog of war.



Oh don't get me wrong, this first game of this is probably then most enjoyable game of civ I've had in a long time. But obviously I've still got civ IV rattling around my head a bit. And yeah, I do think that having to think carefully about what you construct is a good thing. In civ IV I just used to expand rapidly and not really think about it. In this game expanding too quickly hurts more too than it did in civ IV which is a good thing too. Even briefly playing it I can see it's a way superior game.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

Another gripe  when automated workers are completely finished doing everything they can do in your territory, instead of rocking up to the nearest city to get some well-deserved rest like they did in civ IV they fuck off and explore the map like they're scouts or something!!


----------



## The Groke (Sep 24, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Another gripe  when automated workers are completely finished doing everything they can do in your territory, instead of rocking up to the nearest city to get some well-deserved rest like they did in civ IV they fuck off and explore the map like they're scouts or something!!


 

Yeah - I am hoping they will fix up these niggling path-finding and AI behaviour issues fairly soon!

You will also find that there is no menu option to tell automated workers to leave existing improvements alone, though there is a switch for it in the config.ini file!


----------



## BigTom (Sep 24, 2010)

got home from work to find my pre-order had arrived and I've spent a few hours playing this evening - first impressions are positive, it looks fantastic and runs fine on my machine, although I've only partly explored a small map so I need to wait and see if it will start to have problems later in the game when it's got a bigger map and more units and stuff to worry about.
I've only had a little taste of combat, but my reservations about no unit stacking seem unfounded - I think that it's going to be an interesting combat tactics game, I was concerned they were trying to make it more like RTS battles, but it doesn't seem to run like that, and I think that the tactics here will be more interesting than the old stack of doom.. gotta learn not to move the units on top of each other though as I've lost a few moves already by doing that, as the units swap places.. 
Initially I like the civics, think it will be better than the old civ way of governments, and the next logical step on from the governments thingy in civ 4.

Getting used to not having the fat cross will make working out city placements different, again something new to get used to, but I really like the way that borders expand organically now, and that cities have a bigger area for worker placement.

Not got to grips with the new way science/money/culture work so no comment on that yet.  Not sure about city states either, but we'll see.

I think I'm more interested by this game than I was by civ 4 though - it feels pretty different to the previous incarnations and I'm looking forward to losing my life to it for the next few weeks.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

It's running fine on my machine on standard size map with the spec I gave earlier. 

I've realised with city states that once you get to the full level of influence with them it stays there; so I was wrong to suggest that they're always going to be currying favour and sponging from you. I guess the tactic there is to complete their request followed by a monetary donation and then they're in your pocket. I conquered one as it had iron resource and other civs seemed pissed off about it although I'm yet to be attacked thus far.

More thought is needed when moving an army across the map but it kind of makes it more interesting. Instead of just clicking on the destination for each one you have to click on each one in turn and slowly guide them all to wherever you want them to be. I know some will see this as a hassle, but see it more like a board game and you start enjoying it like you're playing one. Being forced to keep your military outside of the cities is good too. I've lost count of the amount of games I've played in civ IV where I can't even remember what military units I have or where and get caught off guard because everything is hidden away in the city stacks.

Also loving mountains in this now that we're thinking about defence in real terms.


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## Jackobi (Sep 24, 2010)

20 minutes until torrent finishes...


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## Epona (Sep 24, 2010)

Well despite my hotseat horror (which is still pissing me off) I've had a good bash at the game and it is really good.  It's far more stable (at least on my PC) than CIV IV ever was.  

Things I'm not so keen on:
There are a few little annoyances that maybe I would be able to do had I been able to figure out how - for example it's all very well having a great general that can stack with a unit and give it a boost, but I'd like to be able to move them as a group, because unless I can link them up and move them together I realise after a couple of turns that my horsemen are halfway across the map and I've moved my great general in the wrong direction and they're no longer on the same hex!

I miss the tax/research slider.  At the moment I'm raking in more cash than I know what to do with, and my research is slower than I'd like.

No animated scene when you build a wonder, I loved those little video bits in CIV IV

No ability to (or I haven't found it yet!) highlight every type of unit on the map, I'd like to be able to click a button and see on a mini-map where for example all my workers are, to make sure they are distributed where they need to be.

Can't work out how to find out what buildings I've already built in a city, and in the city window a couple of times I've bought the wrong hex of land because the terrain display in that screen is too small

Would like a button to toggle the city names and info display, and also separately to toggle display of units on the main map - I'm not keen on the strategic map, but on the main map some terrain features and improvements above the cities are obscured

Tech tree is small compared to previous versions, hopefully this will be a feature of future expansions

Even though I'm running it on the maximum graphics settings, it's not (edit following debate with OH to add the word "substantially" here) prettier than CIV IV, given the required spec I expected a little more detail or the ability to zoom in closer and have a lot more to look at

Things I love:
The hex grid is much better than the squares, I took to that aspect right away

Natural Wonders

It's really good fun.

In summary (and after a few short hours of play), I like it, but it is (at the moment) to CIV IV what CIV III was to CIV II.  Good fun, but unless patches, expansions, and mods offer something extraordinary, it may not shine out as the instant classic its predecessor was.  Still worth £30 mind you.  But give us hotseat pronto ffs!

Edit to add: Oh forgot to say, if anyone is seriously missing the "stack of doom", there's already a mod out to allow you to stack units.  Unfortunately modders haven't yet figured out a way to move them simultaneously, but if anyone is pining for that particular feature it may be of interest!


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## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

Epona said:


> I miss the tax/research slider.  At the moment I'm raking in more cash than I know what to do with, and my research is slower than I'd like.



You can go into the individual city windows and get them to concentrate on food/wealth/science etc etc.

Not quite the same but it helps a bit.


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## Epona (Sep 24, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> You can go into the individual city windows and get them to concentrate on food/wealth/science etc etc.
> 
> Not quite the same but it helps a bit.


 
Ah well that might be a partial solution, thanks!  Although I am an expansionist and prefer to have loads of cities which would make it a real chore I could keep track of changing the settings in just one or two cities to tweak things a bit.

Slightly going off topic here, but talking of micromanagement there hasn't been a "Caesar" type release for a while and I think we must surely be due one, I love city management games!


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## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2010)

Regarding the getting individual cities to dedicate themselves to money or science etc, the city specialists appear to have vanished that were on, well, all other versions of the game!  

I do think that's a bit poor considering the slider has gone as well.


----------



## Epona (Sep 25, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Regarding the getting individual cities to dedicate themselves to money or science etc, the city specialists appear to have vanished that were on, well, all other versions of the game!
> 
> I do think that's a bit poor considering the slider has gone as well.


 
Yep, further thoughts are that I am disappointed with what Great People can do - although I am sure I saw specialists mentioned in the civilopedia entry about Great People, I can't seem to use them to make a specialist in a city.

An addition to the things I love - ranged attacks by archery units and being able to bombard units within range of your cities - nice touch.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

One of the new things I like (if I'm remembering correctly) is that when you build a barracks or similar it immediately adds the bonuses to all the units already built from that city, as opposed to only the new ones after it's been built.


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## The Groke (Sep 25, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Regarding the getting individual cities to dedicate themselves to money or science etc, the city specialists appear to have vanished that were on, well, all other versions of the game!
> 
> I do think that's a bit poor considering the slider has gone as well.



Specialist concept is still sort of still there though, but tied to buildings instead of great people. In your city management/citizen management drop-down, you can assign citizens to work "slots" against some special types of building (i.e library etc) and have them boost the output for that building for science or culture etc.

Also don't forget (and it took me a while to realise this) that as well as granting a free tech/creating a culture bomb or starting a golden age you can use your great person to build their building...you just have to move them to a spare hex in your territory first before you have the option.

You then have to work that tile to gain the benefit.


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## The Groke (Sep 25, 2010)

Epona said:


> Can't work out how to find out what buildings I've already built in a city, and in the city window a couple of times I've bought the wrong hex of land because the terrain display in that screen is too small
> 
> !



You can see the buildings in the City from the drop down on the right hand side _below_ your citizen focus menu. I also think there is a summary screen somewhere too.

Re: View being too small, remember you can also zoom in and out on the city management screen too. I didn't realise this to start with!

I also made sure I turned the main map hex grid on as well - makes planning movement etc much easier.


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## The Groke (Sep 25, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> I've realised with city states that once you get to the full level of influence with them it stays there;



Ah - didn't realise that!

You can also use civic policies to reduce the level of relationship decay and up the bottom level etc.

I imagine you have to have a fair few in your pocket if you want the votes for the UN/Diplomatic victory.


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## Epona (Sep 25, 2010)

The Groke said:


> You can see the buildings in the City from the drop down on the right hand side _below_ your citizen focus menu. I also think there is a summary screen somewhere too.
> 
> Re: View being too small, remember you can also zoom in and out on the city management screen too. I didn't realise this to start with!
> 
> I also made sure I turned the main map hex grid on as well - makes planning movement etc much easier.


 
Ah yes you see, with just that little bit of playtime in advance of the rest of us, you have truly become a master.
Great tips here (and in your reply to Citizen66 also), I hadn't realised you could zoom in on the city management screen, and I hadn't seen that menu you mention either.  It took me until 800 AD to realise that I could change the display in the top left of the main map to show any one of research, city list, or units list (or turn it off). 

Another dislike: that the OH went on a lengthy round trip to procure the game via a RL retailer because I *ahem* "don't like buying new games on download" (just a foible of mine), only to find that it logged me into my Steam account and installed it into my bloody Steam directory anyway.  I don't like to feel that my software is telling me what to do, I at least want to be able to tell it where to install itself, it is my bloody computer, isn't it?


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Specialist concept is still sort of still there though, but tied to buildings instead of great people. In your city management/citizen management drop-down, you can assign citizens to work "slots" against some special types of building (i.e library etc) and have them boost the output for that building for science or culture etc.
> 
> Also don't forget (and it took me a while to realise this) that as well as granting a free tech/creating a culture bomb or starting a golden age you can use your great person to build their building...you just have to move them to a spare hex in your territory first before you have the option.
> 
> You then have to work that tile to gain the benefit.


 
Cheers for that. I did build a citadel with the war general (?) but didn't realise other great people had special buildings too. I think I only generated a couple of great merchants though and as soon as they appear I think 'money' and send them off to a distant city. 

Also interesting about getting workers to work buildings. cheers.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

Epona said:


> Another dislike: that the OH went on a lengthy round trip to procure the game via a RL retailer because I *ahem* "don't like buying new games on download" (just a foible of mine), only to find that it logged me into my Steam account and installed it into my bloody Steam directory anyway.  I don't like to feel that my software is telling me what to do, I at least want to be able to tell it where to install itself, it is my bloody computer, isn't it?



There's obviously some brown envelopes being passed between firaxis and steam there. I like it though, based on my assumption that if I manage to fuck my game disk up (a relatively common occurrence), steam will let me download it again from there as it knows that I have a bought and paid for copy of it that is now permanently linked to my account.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> I've realised with city states that once you get to the full level of influence with them it stays there;



I'm not don't think this does happen actually  Just the blue bar seems to stay full for a long time once it's there, but influence seems to still reduce. More info needed.


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## BigTom (Sep 25, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not don't think this does happen actually  Just the blue bar seems to stay full for a long time once it's there, but influence seems to still reduce. More info needed.


 
yeah, I was going to ask you how much influence you need - I've got up to 250 odd with one city state after defeating another city state they didn't like and chucking a load of gold their way but it's still reducing (by 2/turn now, not sure if that is a function of higher influence or because I've attacked a couple of city states, and now the city states are (supposedly) not liking me anymore (haven't seen any indication of anything actually happening though).
I think you were wrong and the influence decreases whatever amount you get - but the blue bar goes down more slowly because it's a % thing, so losing 1 influence / 30 makes it move more than losing 1 influence / 100 ..


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 25, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Either AVG or Avast are free and fine or even the Microsoft Security Essentials which is also free.
> 
> You only need Home Premium edition (presume you get a hefty student discount?) and yes, there are still security updates...though it really is their best OS to date and has hardly made me cry at all.


 
Thank you  I'm going to have a hunt for a copy now. Then I can start playing Civ V just as I start my PhD next week  *I'm doomed*


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

BigTom said:


> yeah, I was going to ask you how much influence you need - I've got up to 250 odd with one city state after defeating another city state they didn't like and chucking a load of gold their way but it's still reducing (by 2/turn now, not sure if that is a function of higher influence or because I've attacked a couple of city states, and now the city states are (supposedly) not liking me anymore (haven't seen any indication of anything actually happening though).
> I think you were wrong and the influence decreases whatever amount you get - but the blue bar goes down more slowly because it's a % thing, so losing 1 influence / 30 makes it move more than losing 1 influence / 100 ..


 
Yeah i was watching the blue bar so had been premature saying that.  but once the bar is full you stay allies for ages where as if its just part full it ends relatively quickly. Need to read up on the game mechanics behind it I guess.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 25, 2010)

Humph. Only upgrade editions of Windows are available with student discounts, not full editions. That's that then.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

Bit torrent?


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## Voley (Sep 25, 2010)

I've never played one of these Civilization games but they look like the sort of thing I could happily waste years of my life on. Where should I start? On Xbox.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 25, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Bit torrent?


 
I'm scared of torrenting important things like that in case they're full of crap or breaky things.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 25, 2010)

NVP said:


> I've never played one of these Civilization games but they look like the sort of thing I could happily waste years of my life on. Where should I start? On Xbox.


 
Civ Revolution is on xbox. Or you can get a cheap old copy of Civ 2 for PS (which will work on PS3). Otherwise it's PC or Mac (at least, IV is on Mac, not sure about the others, V isn't yet).


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## Voley (Sep 25, 2010)

Is that Revolution one a good un if you're a bit new to this whole thing then? If it's not GTA / Red Dead if get confused by computer games now.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

It's lame and annoying. But then I'm a seasoned pc player.


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## Voley (Sep 25, 2010)

Oh. I just bought it.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

Well it'll give you a decent taster for sure. PC version is far superior though.

You have a PC or MAC?


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## Voley (Sep 25, 2010)

Probably OK for a n00b then. That's all I'm after really.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 25, 2010)

NVP said:


> Oh. I just bought it.


 
 I haven't played it yet. I keep meaning to get a copy because I know a few people with it and want to be able to play them online. But I keep forgetting. It's apparently pretty dumbed down compared to the PC flavours of Civ. If you don't like it, just bear in mind that while the theory is the same, the PC versions will be a lot richer.


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## The Groke (Sep 25, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Humph. Only upgrade editions of Windows are available with student discounts, not full editions. That's that then.



I believe there are fairly simple ways of carrying out a fresh installation of Windows 7 using the "upgrade" media...

I will check and see if they are still valid.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2010)

NVP said:


> Probably OK for a n00b then. That's all I'm after really.


 
Do you have a pc or a mac? I have civ 4 that I no longer want for a pc...


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## Barking_Mad (Sep 25, 2010)

seems Steam is causing no end of problems


http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Meiers-Ci..._1_cc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1285429196&sr=1-1-catcorr


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## The Groke (Sep 25, 2010)

Barking_Mad said:


> seems Steam is causing no end of problems
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Meiers-Ci..._1_cc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1285429196&sr=1-1-catcorr




Hmm - usual mix of half-truths, genuine concerns and utter bennys venting spleen!

I have never had any real issues with Steam. I guess when it was a brand new product and I bought Half-Life 2 in 2004, it flaked out a bit on launch due to demand, but hey - it all worked out Ok.

Of all the DRM measure PC games makers are putting in place, Steam is one of the least offensive. Yes it does require an internet connection - once - and yes, perhaps that is a pain for those who don't have the internet, but *shrug* what can you do?


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## Voley (Sep 25, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I haven't played it yet. I keep meaning to get a copy because I know a few people with it and want to be able to play them online. But I keep forgetting. It's apparently pretty dumbed down compared to the PC flavours of Civ. If you don't like it, just bear in mind that while the theory is the same, the PC versions will be a lot richer.


 
Dumbed down is exactly what I'm after.


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## BigTom (Sep 25, 2010)

I liked civ revolutions on the ipod touch - I assume it's basically the same game on the xbox.  Not as much depth as the pc versions, but an enjoyable game on its own merits - if you like it and have a decent pc, you should definitely get civ 4 or 5.


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## The Groke (Sep 26, 2010)

_Finally_ finished and won my first game - Science/space victory in 1993 on turn 637 on Chieftain.

Score of 1666 and a rating of "Marcus Aurelius"

Considering I have only previously scraped a points victory in Civ IV and I was, without fail, always Dan Quayle, Civ V is definitely easier on the same settings...

Will be skipping to "Prince" for my next game which gives no bonuses or penalties to any of the Players.

Shame there aren't any nifty movies when you finish the game and it doesn't seem to give you as many interesting stats or reviews as in Civ IV. Weirdly though, when I clicked the "just one more turn" so that I could test my nuke without fear of bollocksing my game up, after a few turns I then got to see my Apollo ship take off from my capital as if it were a unit...


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## ringo (Sep 26, 2010)

Really enjoying it, it feels like a brand new game in quite a few ways - in most case the changes make it feel more natural and realistic, especially movement, combat and inter-state interaction. 

With the neutral cities after two gifts of gold they offer an alliance, and after that they provide food. On Civfanatics this is being suggested as a much cheaper way to feed populations as granaries/roads etc are expensive to build and maintain now.

The game is now so playable my 7 year old is picking ity up already and beginning to understand loads of new concepts such as linear progressive learning streams, trade, politics etc. She likes the battles too.


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## The Groke (Sep 26, 2010)

Oh and re. Space victory:

I really like the fact you have to physically transport the complete spaceship parts to your capital - you actually see them as large HGV units with the part on a trailer and depending on where they are coming from, you could take a few turns to move them.

In theory then, if you knew your opponent was attempting this, you could send in an offensive unit to destroy their part on route and block their victory...


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## Citizen66 (Sep 26, 2010)

I just played online and got my arse duly kicked.  It always confuses me how people seem to advance quicker than I do. I musn't be using the right strategy.


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## Voley (Sep 26, 2010)

Please tell me it's true that you can get Ghandi to launch nukes at people.


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## BigTom (Sep 26, 2010)

yes you can, although the games tilts you against this with the bonuses it sets for the indians, as a military victory is not the most effective strategy to take when playing as ghandi.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 26, 2010)

Multi-player online is as slooooooooooow as fuck. They need to sort that shit with a patch sharpish.


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## The Groke (Sep 26, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Multi-player online is as slooooooooooow as fuck. They need to sort that shit with a patch sharpish.


 
I had no issues hosting a private game for me and a mate with 8 AI...

Lack of animations is a problem though - you don't know who is attacking from where or where they are running too if they retreat etc...


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## Citizen66 (Sep 26, 2010)

I don't know what happened in the game I was playing. It seemed to get worse when two players quit and AI took over. But it could have been one of the players with a laggy connection. There was no way of knowing what was causing it.


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## Radar (Sep 26, 2010)

Anyone figured out how you see what preprogramed moves/tasks have been assigned to a unit ?? I keep mixing up units in the same general area because I can't see who has a particular destination


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## Epona (Sep 27, 2010)

Radar said:


> Anyone figured out how you see what preprogramed moves/tasks have been assigned to a unit ?? I keep mixing up units in the same general area because I can't see who has a particular destination


 
If there is a way I can't figure it out.  I'm enjoying the game but that is making things slightly less fun than they could be.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

If you're moving a lot of troops it's easier to move them one by one a square at a time much like you would if playing a board game.


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## ringo (Sep 27, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> If you're moving a lot of troops it's easier to move them one by one a square at a time much like you would if playing a board game.


 
If I use the 'go-to' button to assign a unit to a particular spot it will use the minimum number ofturns to get there, but if I use the number pad it feelslike I don't get all my hex moves per go. Actually I've always felt that with all version of Civ - have I made this up or does it happen, I can't tell any more.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2010)

I think the movement system is a bit buggy. What I meant though is if you're automating a load of troops heading the same direction, preparing to attack a city say, then it's easier to move them individually a tile at a time or they get in each other's way.


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## ringo (Sep 28, 2010)

Getting a bit arsey with the constant giving of favours/money/roads to independent states who demand a lot for their friendship but don't seem to give anything in return.

Anyone read up on research agreements? One nation keep asking me to put in 250 gold pieces, and they do the same, but with no discernable outcome? Did it a couple of times but since have spent the money on city hexes instead for a more obvious return. What am I missing out on?


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## The Groke (Sep 28, 2010)

ringo said:


> Getting a bit arsey with the constant giving of favours/money/roads to independent states who demand a lot for their friendship but don't seem to give anything in return.



If you put your focus into pursuing the "Patronage" social policies, the City States can be very powerful, giving you massive boosts to citizen happiness through luxury goods, large sums of gold, contributions to science and culture output, a stream of free units, a blocker to hostile Civs, votes in your diplomatic victory attempt, etc, etc...

In order to get the most out of them, you do need to minimise the decay of your relationships, maximise the boosts your gold gifts provide and reduce the cost of the gifts - see "Patronage" above.

Without that focus, they can still be useful, but you would want to target one or two specific States to maintain a relationship with, depending on what you needed at the time.

They really provide just one way to win the game - you don't need to focus on them if your strategy doesn't demand it.


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## The Groke (Sep 28, 2010)

ringo said:


> Anyone read up on research agreements? One nation keep asking me to put in 250 gold pieces, and they do the same, but with no discernable outcome? Did it a couple of times but since have spent the money on city hexes instead for a more obvious return. What am I missing out on?




After the specified number of turns, you get a "free" random tech. I am not sure what criteria govern which tech you recieve though - I often seemed to get something I was a few turns off researching myself anyway.

If you have the spare cash, it can be a good way of maintaining good relations with a Civ though.


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## ringo (Sep 28, 2010)

The Groke said:


> If you put your focus into pursuing the "Patronage" social policies, the City States can be very powerful, giving you massive boosts to citizen happiness through luxury goods, large sums of gold, contributions to science and culture output, a stream of free units, a blocker to hostile Civs, votes in your diplomatic victory attempt, etc, etc...
> 
> In order to get the most out of them, you do need to minimise the decay of your relationships, maximise the boosts your gold gifts provide and reduce the cost of the gifts - see "Patronage" above.
> 
> ...


 
Makes sense, I was following both patronage and tradition, probbaly not a good idea as you don't really get the benefit of either.


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## ringo (Sep 28, 2010)

The Groke said:


> After the specified number of turns, you get a "free" random tech. I am not sure what criteria govern which tech you recieve though - I often seemed to get something I was a few turns off researching myself anyway.
> 
> If you have the spare cash, it can be a good way of maintaining good relations with a Civ though.


 
Heh, I hadn't quite made the connection between the research I was paying for and the techs I was getting. Ta.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

Played it a bit more now. I don't like the way you're made to sit through the big intro movie each time you launch the game. Hitting escape is slow in getting rid of it.

War seems to happen a lot easier too. I was at war with Hiawatha for ages, managed to keep him held off until I discovered gun powder and then took a few cities off him which made him back down. Then a city state was under attack so I donated five rifle men and I wish I hadn't as it gave me fuck all influence and no sooner had I done it and weakened my defences two other civilisations simutaneously declared war on me. Ho hum.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

Tech agreements can be annoying. I paid 250 gold, waited the required number of turns and then it gave me sailing, which would have taken me two turns to discover for free.


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## tommers (Sep 29, 2010)

I thought it was just me with the intro movie.  It is really annoying.  Maybe it's loading in the background?

I also find the "embark" command to be a pain in the royal.  You can't stack military ships on them, and they are completely defenceless, so if there's a pirate galley or enemy ship near them then there's little you can do to defend them.  You can kill the ships you see but that's about it.  

I got a rifleman from ruins on an island (when my nearest strength unit was a crossbowman), so I could probably take over a large proportion of the world if I can just get it to a continent.....


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## The Groke (Sep 29, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> Played it a bit more now. I don't like the way you're made to sit through the big intro movie each time you launch the game. Hitting escape is slow in getting rid of it.



I turned it off:

In [My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5] find UserSettings.ini and you can change two of the perhaps most useful values:

SkipIntroVideo = 0 (Change to 1 to disable intro)
AutoWorkersDontReplace = 0 (Change to 1 to stop automated workers from replacing tile improvements)



Citizen66 said:


> War seems to happen a lot easier too.



Depends IMO.

When I played on Chieftain, I was warring a lot. My last game on Prince I hardly fought at all - maintained good relations with Civs, had City-State backup and established an advanced enough standing Army to discourage would-be invaders.

It also depends how near other Civs you are and what personality they are - starting next to Napoleon is always a good way to be rucking constantly!

IMO the AI can be pretty dense tactically as far as the combat is concerned, but as far as the overall game, they seem to play more like a human player, i.e. to win, rather than as an obstacle to you winning.

They will invade if you are weak, they will double-cross you and they will appear obtuse...as you would to them!


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## The Groke (Sep 29, 2010)

tommers said:


> I also find the "embark" command to be a pain in the royal.  You can't stack military ships on them, and they are completely defenceless, so if there's a pirate galley or enemy ship near them then there's little you can do to defend them.



I got the hang of stationing "guard ships" either side in a suitable blocking formation - haven't had too much trouble with units being sunk after that. I far prefer units being able to embark than having to build transports with 2 slots and ferry the damn things across the ocean a few at a time!


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## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

I think one of the techs allows embarked units to defend themselves. If I've got that wrong then it might be a social policy but I've definitely seen that you can acquire the ability. Check the sea related techs.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

Just done a bit of reading and I think it might just be a special ability of the Songhai civ where embarked units can defend themselves. Shame, if it is. But useful to know when selecting a civ for an islands or continents game.


----------



## tommers (Sep 29, 2010)

thanks for the intro / worker tips grokey, I'll be doing that later!

I have transported some units across but I'm scared that my precious uber-advanced unit will get killed by some poxy trireme before it can wreak havoc on, firstly Venice, and then a bunch of other big mouth, ooh no I can't give you spices unless you give me open borders, 300 gold and 2 luxury resources, know nothing, self important aztec tossers. 

In other news....  city maintenance now has no relationship to distance.  Is that correct?  It's just a flat rate isn't it?  (And happiness, not money.)


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2010)

BigTom said:


> yes you can, although the games tilts you against this with the bonuses it sets for the indians, as a military victory is not the most effective strategy to take when playing as ghandi.


 
Every strategy works for Ghandi in Civ Rev - their special ability is unlocking all tile bonuses without the required tech. Ridiculously overpowered and the easiest guy to win with.

In a way, I'm glad this isn't on mac yet. Halo Reach and Minecraft already take up too much time!


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Groke said:


> I turned it off:
> 
> In [My Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5] find UserSettings.ini and you can change two of the perhaps most useful values:
> 
> ...


 
Cheers for the info. Although I use my workers manually. 

/Control freak


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Depends IMO.
> 
> When I played on Chieftain, I was warring a lot. My last game on Prince I hardly fought at all - maintained good relations with Civs, had City-State backup and established an advanced enough standing Army to discourage would-be invaders.
> 
> ...



You also get less grief if you play Earth, Archipelago or Continents. My first couple of games were with Pangaea and everyone competing for the same piece of land was bound to raise hackles.


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## Voley (Sep 29, 2010)

I'm enjoying Revoution on the Xbox a lot. Have managed to win as Genghis Khan just going for all-out military might at the expense of everything else. It's good fun - got a lot of scope for hours and hours of mucking about.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2010)

But aren't the advisers on it _really_ annoying?  Or perhaps it's the leaders. Only played it once.


----------



## Epona (Sep 30, 2010)

Well I am officially addicted to this.  There are a few issues that would make some aspects of gameplay a little less frustrating - eg. being able to click on a unit that you've auto-routed and having the path it's taking displayed would save me having to remember what I'd told every unit to do a couple of turns back or worse when I've taken a break from playing and come back to it a bit later... and the user interface taking up too much of the screen (smaller icons and a toggleable mini-map would sort this)... and being able to have eg. all my workers or settlers or naval unit positions flash on the mini-map so I can easily see where they all are... and having more information available about diplomacy.  But besides those small things (and lack of hotseat MP!!!!!) I have really got into it and it's a great game.

I never had any trouble skipping the intro movie, although I haven't worked out exactly which button makes it stop - but a combination of ESC, space bar, enter, and double clicking the lmb always does the trick for me, so one of those options is doing it.  I gather from the official forums (which has pretty much devolved into factions over this game!) that a lot of people are having problems with slow turns and CTDs, fortunately I haven't had any such problems but then my gaming PC is less than a month old so I would be extremely pissed off if it was struggling.  But for those with older machines I'm sure graphics that are only slightly prettier than CIV IV do not seem like a fair trade off for the lack of stability and performance they are experiencing struggling to play on minimum spec.


----------



## Epona (Sep 30, 2010)

ringo said:


> Getting a bit arsey with the constant giving of favours/money/roads to independent states who demand a lot for their friendship but don't seem to give anything in return.


 
Just saw this and I'm loving the city states - maritime states especially make very valuable friends/allies, because they give your cities food each turn - if you keep a couple of maritime states on your side you'll rarely have to build a farm and can instead build trading posts to rake in money for those more expensive maintenance buildings, buying buildings, buying/upgrading troops, and buying land hexes.  I have yet to see as much benefit for military states, they occasionally pop out military units for you but often in a location you don't need or want them!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 30, 2010)

NVP said:


> I'm enjoying Revoution on the Xbox a lot. Have managed to win as Genghis Khan just going for all-out military might at the expense of everything else. It's good fun - got a lot of scope for hours and hours of mucking about.


 
I've played so much Rev on my ipod, I've forgotten what it's like to struggle or change up my strategy. I now blitz my way through the essential techs and city count to get to tanks before everyone else then go on the rampage. It's not really fun any more, bu I do it anyway


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 30, 2010)

It's a slow game, like. Been playing for two evenings now and just up to the industrial era.

Also now more of the map is revealed (standard size) and it has to think about what my massive (and now only) opponent is doing it is starting to chug a bit in places.

Is that my memory that needs upgrading to 4 gig?


----------



## Psychonaut (Oct 2, 2010)

Epona said:


> I never had any trouble skipping the intro movie, although I haven't worked out exactly which button makes it stop - but a combination of ESC, space bar, enter, and double clicking the lmb always does the trick for me, so one of those options is doing it.



lol  - ive narrowed it down to escape, but you have to wait until the old mans looking contemplative, a moment before his son enters the tent. 

(thanks the groke for skip intro tip btw)


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2010)

Groke's solution is great... although the game still pauses slightly before it launches with a black screen rather than a movie but at least you're not hitting random key selections any more and just sit patiently.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 3, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> It's a slow game, like. Been playing for two evenings now and just up to the industrial era.
> 
> Also now more of the map is revealed (standard size) and it has to think about what my massive (and now only) opponent is doing it is starting to chug a bit in places.
> 
> Is that my memory that needs upgrading to 4 gig?



Yeah - I reckon "standard" feels like "Epic" from Civ IV and "epic" is more akin to "marathon"!

I find even on my machine it chugs a bit (quad core CPU, 8Gb RAM), though I think this is down to my graphics card not being a DX11 device...

Do you run in DX10/11 or DX9 mode? You may find the latter runs a little better for you?

Still - 4Gb can't hurt and is rapidly becoming the norm for home machines these days.


----------



## debaser (Oct 3, 2010)

4gig quad core, with a dx11 card I've no problems whatsoever, not even the slightest bit of chug.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 3, 2010)

debaser said:


> 4gig quad core, with a dx11 card I've no problems whatsoever, not even the slightest bit of chug.


 
Mine is fine until I zoom right out, then scrolling is laggy...

I have a good card - GTX 285 - but the lack of HW tessellation seems to really hit it.

I will be upgrading to a DX11 card, but with the AMD 6xxx series a month or so away, I am holding out a bit.


----------



## tommers (Oct 3, 2010)

mine runs fine on an integrated laptop card!  GeForce 105M.  I haven't tried zooming out too far though and it chugs when it's updating the textures...

I've noticed a couple of bugs...  I had a source of Marble connected to my empire but it wasn't showing in happiness, and I could still trade for it with other empires.

You can give away your last luxury resource!  I needed spices to get a "love the king" day in some cities.  The Aztecs wanted dyes, wine and whales... they were the only empire I could still trade with so I did the trade and my happiness dropped to -11 (right in the middle of a fucking massive war) cos I had no more wine or dyes to give my populace.  You always used to only trade your excess but not any more it seems.... 

On that note... anybody see how to cancel a trade agreement?


----------



## debaser (Oct 3, 2010)

I cover my entire continent now and I'm not far of future techs. The other continent which I've floated around but yet to set foot on seems to be at the industrial era at best.

I suppose I could leave them be, or start rolling the tanks in. 

But why bother, 18 Uranium to blow, I'm nuking the lot.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Mine is fine until I zoom right out, then scrolling is laggy...
> 
> I have a good card - GTX 285 - but the lack of HW tessellation seems to really hit it.
> 
> I will be upgrading to a DX11 card, but with the AMD 6xxx series a month or so away, I am holding out a bit.



Oh by 'chug' I don't mean screen lag, I mean it was taking ages between turns when it says "please wait" ...

I've pretty much kicked the AI's ass on my latest game at prince level. Playing continents means you've got a manageable amount of civs around you and not everyone declaring war at once. I wiped out an entire civ using just 5 units: 2 artillery and 3 tanks. I'd roll the tanks right up to the city and fortify them and then bombard it and then take it over using the tanks.

Trading posts ftw.  although in my money calculations it says that I was spending money on improved tiles  I just send my workers off improving things but that might not be the most efficient way of doing it if I'm being charged for improvements that no civilians are working...


----------



## tommers (Oct 3, 2010)

I thought the only improvements that charge are roads???


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2010)

tommers said:


> I thought the only improvements that charge are roads???


 
Ah, that's what maybe it was on about.   If you roll your mouse button over the gold coin on the top left of the screen it just says 'improved tiles' and not 'roads' on the breakdown iirc.

You get charged for units too and I can't seem to work out how much you're being charged for what. For instance, I was in the red money-wise so killed off a lancer. I got 13 gold back so I killed another and got nothing.


----------



## tommers (Oct 3, 2010)

yeah, it seems a bit weird.  Things go up and down sometimes just by you clicking on a city screen.  I can sense some bugs scurrying away in the background.  Maybe I'll read the manual. 

If you are charged for other improvements then that would explain why I'm losing money hand over fist.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2010)

tommers said:


> If you are charged for other improvements then that would explain why I'm losing money hand over fist.



Simple way to find this out is count your roads up and see if it tallies up with 'tile improvement' charges. I'm sure when I looked I was being charged something like 65 gold for tile improvements and I sure as hell didn't have 65 roads. Need to check again though as I might be remembering it wrong.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2010)

Some guy elsewhere on the net has a similar gripe:



> Maintenance costs are unclear. I know I am paying upkeep on my troops, but how much for each troop? How is it figured? What is the formula? Same thing with upkeep on tile improvements, I have a really hard time making sense of where all of those expenses coming from so I similarly have a hard time in reducing the expenses.
> 
> http://www.hythia.com/2010/09/civilization-5/


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2010)

Here's some thoughts from elsewhere regarding unit upkeep:



> I was puzzled by how unit maintenance worked as well. After checking out a couple of forum posts on other websites with other confused gamers, a bunch of people ran some experiments, and observed the following:
> 
> 1. Unit maintenance costs SHOULD be in the civilopedia, or at least represented somewhere in the game. But they're not. Hopefully this is something that can be patched in later.
> 
> ...


----------



## tommers (Oct 3, 2010)

oh.  That's interesting but it sounds like a bit of a cock up.  Why do 3 count the same as 2?  I'm beginning to have a sneaky suspicion that this game is still pretty bugged..

I can kind of see the exponential increase as part of the "scaling" to avoid late empires just having shit loads of cash but the evens bit makes no sense.

When I get home I'll add up my building costs too and see if they match what it says...  I'll do the same with my luxury resources... I have a feeling that there are a few luxuries that aren't showing on my happiness total (definitely marble)


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2010)

I've started a new game and the tile improvement costs are just for roads ifaics. Yeah, maintaining a massive army seems a bit pricey. In fact, maintaining a not so massive one is pretty pricey.


----------



## tommers (Oct 4, 2010)

Anybody liberated a city before?  My happiness is really low so i thought I'd liberate Orleans from the perfidious Russian, rather than take it over.

The game promised me that "the French will be forever grateful".

So I do it.  Napoleon rises from the grave and I toddle over to get my gratitude and, probably, loads of gold and luxuries.  Hey, he might even ask who I want him to invade.

"What is a dishonorable wretch like you doing here?"

Eh?  Hold on a second!  Liberate... eternally grateful...  you know?

"Your military is a laughing stock"

What?  Well come on, give us those furs at least!

"I want wine, whales and pearls"

So... what exactly do I get?  Except for Napoleon being an arsey little twerp?

(and yes, I am going to fuck the little bastard over, as soon as I build some theatres.  Talk to me like that.)


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 4, 2010)

I think the unhappiness equation is too simplistic. As far as I can tell people get more unhappy the bigger your civilisation gets. And that's it. So you're permanently fighting against it as your civilisation naturally grows. It's probably good to counter expansionists who rule the game through might cos they've got the biggest dick but it's an issue for me with just five or six cities which is hardly taking the piss.


----------



## tommers (Oct 4, 2010)

yeah, it's a constant struggle for me.  I see it as a population cap, you can always switch your cities over to production.  Until you get to -10 the only consequence is a loss of growth, which stops it getting worse.

Below -10, though, it's a real fucker.  Really hard to get out of.

I think next game I'm going to have 5 or 6 cities and see what it's like.  At the moment it's just crippling me. 

I find I am just building happiness and economy buildings.  No time for anything else.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 4, 2010)

tommers said:


> I think next game I'm going to have 5 or 6 cities and see what it's like.  At the moment it's just crippling me.
> 
> I find I am just building happiness and economy buildings.  No time for anything else.



Are you using the relevant social policies to combat unhappiness through growth?


----------



## tommers (Oct 4, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Are you using the relevant social policies to combat unhappiness through growth?



I'm only just in the industrial era and I've just started on "order".  I need 3,500 per policy atm and I'm adding about 90 a turn. 

The next one is a biggie though.  Be about +20 happiness, which'll see me right for a while.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 4, 2010)

tommers said:


> I'm only just in the industrial era and I've just started on "order".  I need 3,500 per policy atm and I'm adding about 90 a turn.
> 
> The next one is a biggie though.  Be about +20 happiness, which'll see me right for a while.


 
Yeah - it is a problem if you have had to adapt or end up with more cities than planned - each city adds to the cultural cost of your next policy. If you take some of the expansionist ones early on, it can save a lot of struggle later!


----------



## tommers (Oct 5, 2010)

I've just seen that each city adds 30%!!!!  Fuck my old boots.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 5, 2010)

tommers said:


> I've just seen that each city adds 30%!!!!  Fuck my old boots.


 
Yeah. I think more so than Civ IV, the game rewards starting off with a clear idea as to how you want to achieve victory and then building on that game-plan early!

I have found that you can be flexible later on if you suddenly need to boost your army or whatever, but getting the right policies and early wonders in place to support your intended game is vital.


I will also concur with you and C66 that the game is far from perfect, there are weird bugs (millions of random horses, deals not cancelling properly, persistent messages for weird things, funny AI behaviour etc!) and there is still work to be done on balancing.

I also agree that maybe the happiness model needs a bit of refinement and the game is way too obtuse in terms of defining costs and benefits for certain things.

I reckon it also needs war weariness back, or some penalty against perpetual war as well.

All that said, I am still really enjoying it, find it by far the most accessible Civ to date and I wouldn't give up my 1-unit-per-tile or Hexes for anything!

We are a few patches away from greatness, but it is well worth sticking with.


----------



## Epona (Oct 5, 2010)

There definitely are bugs - I had a coastal city with a harbour (for churning out naval units with lowered production cost) AND a road trade route connected to the captial (for moving land units to the coast so they could quickly move across land, embark and sail away in the protection of naval units), and every time a barbarian vessel entered my waters the trade route to that city was severed with quite severe penalties - I'm also connected by road you stupid fucks, just the same as my inland cities which don't have these penalties, my trade route has NOT been severed just because of a barbarian trireme hovering around my coastline.


----------



## Epona (Oct 5, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Yeah. I think more so than Civ IV, the game rewards starting off with a clear idea as to how you want to achieve victory and then building on that game-plan early!
> 
> I have found that you can be flexible later on if you suddenly need to boost your army or whatever, but getting the right policies and early wonders in place to support your intended game is vital.
> 
> ...


 
Honestly I think the main problem with the game is that the AI Civs have no diplomacy history, it's all expedient - you can have played nicey nicey with an AI Civ for ages only to have it found a city near your borders then call you up on the red telephone, give you an earful about being too close to their borders, and declare war on you - despite the fact that a) you've been propping them up for the last 1000 years but they've forgotten all of that, and b) it was they who got too close to you, not the other way around.

That aspect of the game really needs to be a bit more intelligent.

Edit to add: by the way has anyone tried out any good mods yet?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 5, 2010)

The problem with having a rigid strategy - bar diplomatic or time victory - is that you will always need to keep your eye on the ball with your military, otherwise you'll get bullied by other civs, and social policies are a benefit whether you want a cultural victory or not. I've always found that trying to be the first to build stonehenge is a massive help, getting a war general early on and building a citadel close to your most vulnerable city to house a ranged unit that the enemy must walk past to get to the city massively hampers any of their early attack attempts too. I guess trying to keep city numbers to an optimum level of between four and six cities is important too. I think buying tiles adds to culture cost of policies too.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 5, 2010)

Epona said:


> Honestly I think the main problem with the game is that the AI Civs have no diplomacy history, it's all expedient [/snip]


 
I think the key difference is that they play to win, rather than to provide "flavour" or an obstacle to _you_ winning.

Would you be surprised if you were playing a human opponent with whom you had lots of previous friendly dealings and they suddenly turned around and stabbed you in the back/went to war/allied with your enemies towards the end of the game "for no reason"

Probably not...and you would likely do the same to them if it meant you could secure a victory or they saw you as a threat.

If you are a push-over in military terms or you are a direct threat/competition to another Civ then all bets are off as far as I can see - they will come for you.

If you do play nice, you have something they need (strategic resources, an ally against a more powerful Civ etc) then it may well stave off their advances to a point.

That said, unfortunately at the moment, their strategic and combat AI isn't quite up to the job of delivering the kind of game that they are trying to play. I am confident that this will improve.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 5, 2010)

Yeah they're a bit thick at times. I was shooting at a catapult across one tile of water with an archer yet it couldn't deduce that it could and should fire back. They can be sly though. If you've had previous beef with one of them where you've held them off but not completely hammered them don't agree to open borders after a bit. All it does is gives you the sense that things are hunky dory with them they'll come into your tetritory, position their units and then attack whilst your guard is down.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 5, 2010)

Interesting theory/point on Civ V from the qt3 forums:




			
				RoBurky said:
			
		

> Here's something interesting. While in Civ IV, the AI always knew how many units you had, and used that to judge your strength, it seems the AI in Civ V only knows about units it can see.
> 
> That's why you're getting situations like an enemy laughing at your proposals of peace, until you actually move your army towards his cities and into sight range, then he offers everything he has to you.
> 
> ...


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 5, 2010)

There's definitely truth in that. Greece was attacking me, a situation I was happy with as I was holding him off with ranged units and reaping the experience points. However, I sent one swordsman into his territory, killed a catapult before it got killed by a couple of his units. But he offered peace immediately after with gold and resources. Which leads me to believe that it rattles them more if it is them under threat than them sending waves of troops that get defeated.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2010)

Latest rumour is the Mac OSX version is merely weeks away!  Fucking hope that's true...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Latest rumour is the Mac OSX version is merely weeks away!  Fucking hope that's true...


 
!!!!

Goodbye life.


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## Epona (Oct 9, 2010)

The Groke said:


> Would you be surprised if you were playing a human opponent with whom you had lots of previous friendly dealings and they suddenly turned around and stabbed you in the back/went to war/allied with your enemies towards the end of the game "for no reason"
> 
> Probably not...and you would likely do the same to them if it meant you could secure a victory or they saw you as a threat.


 
I would be very surprised if I was playing against several humans and they ALL offered me for example a secrecy pact ON THE SAME TURN - which the AI opponents have a tendency to do - it seems to kick in one particular offer when your CIV meets a certain set of conditions and all current non-hostile AIs will queue up with the exact same offer on that turn.  That's not intelligent, and it certainly doesn't replicate the behaviour you might expect from human players.  Also the AI doesn't allow for secondary defensive military strategy from AI CIVs- they have a tendency to throw all units towards the front lines, and once those are defeated it's goodnight vienna (for them).  It neither adds flavour, nor in any way gives the appearance of playing against anything remotely intelligent.

These are major flaws in the diplomacy/military AI (and that's even if you ignore the obvious bug where sometimes an AI CIV will offer you a pact against ITSELF) - if you don't believe me go and have a look at the official forums.

ETA: Don't get me wrong I love the game and I'm not in the 'hater' camp by any means, but there are some idiotic AI things going on which really could be improved no end!


----------



## tommers (Oct 10, 2010)

If a city has a harbour it counts as being connected by a railroad (once you have discovered railroad, natch.)  You get the 50% production bonus.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 10, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> !!!!
> 
> Goodbye life.


 
Oh god. No please. And i thought minecraft had a hold on me.


----------



## The Groke (Oct 10, 2010)

Epona said:


> ETA: Don't get me wrong I love the game and I'm not in the 'hater' camp by any means, but there are some idiotic AI things going on which really could be improved no end!



I am certainly not disagreeing with you on that point - as my other posts show!

It does need polish, especially the tactical AI as far as combat and naval competence is concerned and at the macro level as well.

Still - loving it!

Just started a new game on "Prince" last night - playing on a HUUUUUUUUUUGE downloaded "Real world" map with the mod that ensures all Civs start in their RL locations as well as a few economy balance mods.

I am playing England and have been progressing OK, though obviously I am going to be butting heads with Napoleon real soon, though thus far it has been the Germans getting shirty.

Being an island nation with a few promoted Triremes has kept me comfortably safe from advancing Civs and I have already taken Edinburgh but I find myself potentially buggered as I have no Iron resources at all!

Trying to work out whether to take over Helsinki and risk all the Nation States turning against me (already been warring with Dublin for 20 turns) or whether to start building up the requisite Policies and making nice with them so I can get access to the nearest source of Iron.

Hmmm....


----------



## tommers (Oct 19, 2010)

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/66065

New DLC x 2 (one is free) out soon and new patch also on its way!


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2010)

And no news on the Mac version...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And no news on the Mac version...


 
Woe woe and thrice times woe. I'm at a bit of a loose end game wise at the moment. I'm replaying Alpha Protocol for like the fourth time. Forshame.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Woe woe and thrice times woe. I'm at a bit of a loose end game wise at the moment. I'm replaying Alpha Protocol for like the fourth time. Forshame.


 
I'm really tempted to get Civ4 seeing as it's like 12 quid on Steam...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 19, 2010)

Yeah, do it. It's a solid game, and will pass the time until someone comes to our rescue with the port of V


----------



## Epona (Oct 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm really tempted to get Civ4 seeing as it's like 12 quid on Steam...


 
Oh do, it's a fantastic game.  As much as I love 5, 4 will remain a classic.  Depending on what platform you use (if console, ignore most of the following), it might be worth getting the official expansion Beyond the Sword (BTS) because there have been a lot of free mods that use that expansion - most notably Rise of Mankind and Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn which are absolutely phenomenal (and have been described as "CIV 4.5") - check the Civ Fanatics forum to see if you can play these on a Mac (you can find links for the torrents there too), if you can it's well worth getting BTS as well if only so that you can use these mods, although the expansion adds a lot of good content in its own right.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2010)

Yeah very tempted, used to have Civ 4 on my old laptop, hours of fun with it...hmmm...


----------



## Epona (Oct 21, 2010)

Well if you can run them, get the free mods Rise of Mankind and RoM New Dawn, they get 11 out of 10 from me.  The OH took 3 weeks off work to play CIV 5 but it didn't ship with MP Hotseat so we couldn't play against each other - so we've  each been playing our own single player CIV 5 games but when we want to play competitively against each other we've been playing CIV 4 RoM: New Dawn which I only found recently (we'd done vanilla CIV 4/BTS to death, and couldn't MP CIV 5 so we were looking for something else) and it's absolutely superb, I can't recommend it highly enough, an epic reworking of an already great game.


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 24, 2010)

Thanks for that Epona. Got no interest in Civ5 but a RoM modmod is always going to be worth downloading.


----------



## Random (Oct 26, 2010)

Do any of the Civ IV mods reduce micro-management? Having to control all those workers in order to produce a specialist city was what stopped me making the jump into King successfully imo.


----------



## Epona (Oct 26, 2010)

^ This is from the features list of ROM:A New Dawn (which also needs Rise of Mankind installed):




			
				ROM: A New Dawn said:
			
		

> Fine-Tuned Automations
> Ever want to automate your units, but feel like they make too many mistakes? Wish you could fine tune what they can and can not do? Now you can. There's 100's of options to chose from. Restrict your workers from building forts around your capital, but allow it around your border cities, while allowing paths nationwide and banning paved roads. Or disable farms in all cities but one, and allow mines in all of them. Or anything in-between. Even your combat troops have further controls. Want to control what odds your units will attack at? Now you can!



So it looks as if that could solve at least some of your automation woes.


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## Vintage Paw (Oct 29, 2010)

Just dl Beyond the Sword for Civ4 and enjoying it immensely. Currently just sticking with the New War mod, or whatever it's called - where you carry on to get cyborgs and so on. Just built my first assault mech last night - lol, going to have lots of fun with that bad boy


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 29, 2010)




----------



## Epona (Oct 29, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


>


 
Hilarious   I have stopped playing it for a bit, been totally sucked into New Vegas for the time being.

I used to play Next War a lot til I found mods that expanded it even more


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2010)

Wayhey! Civ 5 for Mac dated for release: November 23rd!!!


----------



## Psychonaut (Nov 3, 2010)

crash crash crash PLAY! crash crash REPLAY*3 crash crash crash NEW TURN! crash crash.. 

tbf its a testinomny to the sheer addictiveness of the game that i put up with this shit. that or my clinical obsessional tendencies. 

(ive made the long overdue jump to 64 bit OS tonight, maybe that'll help)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2010)

Psychonaut said:


> crash crash crash PLAY! crash crash REPLAY*3 crash crash crash NEW TURN! crash crash..
> 
> tbf its a testinomny to the sheer addictiveness of the game that i put up with this shit. that or my clinical obsessional tendencies.
> 
> (ive made the long overdue jump to 64 bit OS tonight, maybe that'll help)


 
I'm hoping these issues are ironed out for the Mac version...


----------



## Psychonaut (Nov 3, 2010)

> I'm hoping these issues are ironed out for the Mac version...



it seems the people who buy games in the first month ARE the beta-testers. Later mac versions should presuably have the new features and balance-changes present on day one though.

tbf i was playing the SKIDROW release that was at least one patch behind the legit version. So i finally coughed up - if it continues to fuck up late-game at least ill be able to dignify my irritability with a sense of 'taxpayer-esque' righteousness


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wayhey! Civ 5 for Mac dated for release: November 23rd!!!


 
OMFG!! Like I need any more excuses not to do work


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> OMFG!! Like I need any more excuses not to do work


 
Innit, with CoD Black Ops out next week and Civ a couple weeks later I don't think anyone will be seeing me till Christmas.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 23, 2010)

More info on the Mac version: http://blog.gameagent.com/2010/11/22/civilization-v-mac-faqs-v3/


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 28, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> More info on the Mac version: http://blog.gameagent.com/2010/11/22/civilization-v-mac-faqs-v3/


 
I, er, may be downloading this now 

Because, you know, it's not like I've got other stuff to do.

Shame about the mod support thing (in your link). However, the IV port I've got supports a bunch of mods, so perhaps there's scope for mac folk to produce their own? I'm not a technical person, so I have no idea.


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## Vintage Paw (Nov 29, 2010)

Played this for a couple of hours last night. Not sure I get the hype, but then I started on Huge/Marathon, which probably wasn't ideal for getting to grips with the system. Will have another go on a smaller, faster world later I reckon. And turns take a while to compute even at the start. Not late-game IV times, but still.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm finding it really hard to like this, seems a little too console like to me, much prefer Civ4 so far...


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## Epona (Dec 30, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm finding it really hard to like this, seems a little too console like to me, much prefer Civ4 so far...


 
I agree with that.  I don't _dislike_ it, but it's no Civ4, it just doesn't have that 'classic' or even the epic feel to it, that a game could run for millennia.  I think Civ5 is more about a shorter more militaristic game, rather than the long expansion/growth/culture game that I enjoyed with 4.  Definitely agreeing with those who suggest that the even-numbered installments tend to be vastly better than the odd-numbered ones so far! - my faves are 2 (test of time) and 4 (bts + rise of mankind: a new dawn).

In terms of the more console-friendly nature of the Civ5 interface, here are some humourous proposed Civ6 screenshots:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=391085


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2010)

Actually, scratch that, I like it I'm finding it hard to love it and want to play it all the time like the others. Maybe it's just all even Civs are the best (2 and 4 being my favourites so far)?


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## kained&able (Dec 30, 2010)

got in for xmas played 1 small game.

love it!!!


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 11, 2011)

Started another game, played for a while then went back to Civ 4...


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## kained&able (Jan 11, 2011)

neraly finished my fourth game now. I'm really rather impressed. I love the fact there are lots of different ways to win and the city states thing is really handy. Means you can get units for free without much hassle and is also great for invading a new continent as you can just take one of them out and use it as staging post.

Still getting used to the fact that the great libery is now a bit shit.

dave


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## kained&able (Jan 17, 2011)

Im finding it quite hard to win on warlord level. 2nd place is easy enough but i have just had to declare full scale war on someone as they started building a spaceship and have a feeling im going to have to nuke the hell out of another AI as they have built a spaceship factory(but have yet to start on the components).

Fun times. Don't like how often it crashes though.Thank god for autosave.

dave


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## Citizen66 (Jan 23, 2011)

If I play on a standard size map it always crashes when I learn the tech that reveals the whole map without fail. I guess that's down to my pc's spec.

There's still a few niggles with it. Like I had a defence pact with Japan and when America declared war on me they didn't lift a fucking finger to help me. Fast forward a few turns and they want me to declare war on America with them. I tell them I'm not interested in such an arrangement as It's likely me to be doing all the fighting so they ended up denouncing me for not helping them. Fucking charming!  

And when America declared war I thwarted its advances so it wanted peace and threw all its resources my way to convince me. Fast forward a few turns and it called me 'puny' and declared war on me and I duly kicked its ass a second time. And then a third. But it's weird behaviour. I'm guessing that I play too defensively and that I should advance and take cities to put it back in its place. But it plays havoc with your nation's happiness to play like that.


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## kained&able (Jan 24, 2011)

they just think you are a doormat.

I'm struggling to win any other way then scientific or domination. Cultural seems virtually impossible and diplomatic doesn't sound like it will be fun.

dave


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## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2011)

Ive won at cultural but you need a civ geared towards that like the extra culture france gets for cities, or the aztecs (iirc) get for war or the bonus the egyptians get towards building wonders.

Each time you found a new city build a monument first, have one city geared towards production turning out wonders and follow the social policy trees that help with cultural strategy. 

Also concentrate on techs that provide cultural buildings, it all has to take a front seat.


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## Citizen66 (Jan 25, 2011)

A very easy way to win is to gear everything towards gold production and have a few (ten?) thousand gold in your coffers. When someone builds the united nations giving you ten turns before voting takes place and a diplomatic victory bung all the city states a thousand gold each so they become your allies. Voila, they all vote for you and you win. Although perhaps turn off time victory as I actually came joint first when I did this.  Buying the United front from the Order social tree and completing the Patronage tree helps with this strategy.


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## kained&able (Jan 27, 2011)

at the moment im doing one and going for domination. Lots of civs keep getting proper uppity with me(even though they asked to go for war with germany, how can they hold it against me, ffs) and i'm predicting that two of em will declare war on me very  soon.

I'm quite scared.

dave


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## Citizen66 (Feb 3, 2011)

The diplomacy engine does let the game down a bit in that it's very two dimensional. I think it pays not to have a special relationship with any of the other civs as they only give you a ridiculous demand for gold or expect you to declare war on someone during the game and spit their dummy out if you refuse. They then become hostile towards you, a situation that may not have developed had you kept relations at friendly but at arms length. Defensive pacts seem equally shit. Maybe if you're a small nation it might put off larger ones attacking if someone else will be dragged into the conflict (although i have no evidence that is the case) but don't expect them to actually _do_ anything should the situation arise. Or that's my experience of it.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 3, 2011)

sounds a bit like real democracy...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 3, 2011)

Went back to this for another hour a week or so back. Regret buying it now, it's crap.


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## kained&able (Feb 7, 2011)

After this game i shall be chucking it up to price level( i think the one above chieften anyway) combat is very unfulfiling i have a fairly small army compared to one person but am taking his cities at will.  Not quite hard enough.

dave


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## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2011)

Prince is above warlord, it's where player and AI start on an equal pegging.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 7, 2011)

I always play civilization with the biggest world possible, but it ran a bit slow on my computer. I did get one pretty good (on-going-over-many-months) game out of it as Rome.

I quite like some the concepts, like each civilization having a special trait. I quite like the way the map works as well, and the way cities expand.

I don't like the fact that you cant trade maps. That annoyed me.


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## kained&able (Feb 8, 2011)

You can trade maps can't you? as scenarios?


dave


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 8, 2011)

kained&able said:


> You can trade maps can't you? as scenarios?
> 
> 
> dave



You cant trade maps with other civilizations, in the game.


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## kained&able (Feb 8, 2011)

Oh i see. yeah that is annoying i reckon if you have open borders agreement with someone you should get their world map or something.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2011)

You discover the world map with one of the technologies; which is when my game crashes on standard size.

Other than that, have open border treaties and have a unit go into uncharted territories to explore.


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## kained&able (Feb 8, 2011)

yeah satellites gives you the full world map.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 8, 2011)

perhaps  a  limited map of theirterotories  should pop up... one that doesn't give  much detail   a bit like a political map


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## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2011)

Ruins sometimes reveal pathetically small sections of the map but it helps with your initial exploration which you SHOULD be doing...


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## kained&able (Feb 9, 2011)

The initial exploration i do quite well its just the continent i'm on tends to be done before seafaring)or whatever it is) gets discovered and i have already disbanded the explorers and by the time i get round to making them again peoples borders get in the way.

dave


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## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2011)

Fwiw I never use explorers or scouts to explore. Plus i'm only really interested in my immediate surrounding terrain, what the civs are up to and where i can settle. Everywhere else can be explored as and when, if at all.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 9, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Fwiw I never use explorers or scouts to explore. Plus i'm only really interested in my immediate surrounding terrain, what the civs are up to and where i can settle. Everywhere else can be explored as and when, if at all.


 
I usually have to explore to find where all the resources are across the map.


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## kained&able (Feb 9, 2011)

yeah i try too as well, makes it easier to work out who needs taking out and their resources nicked. Certainly by the time steel, uranium and aluminium come into play.

dave


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## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2011)

You mean oil, shirley?

Iron appears pretty early on. You can get by without it too providing you have access to horses. 

I have to say that my favourite aspect of civ 5 is citadels. I had siam attacking me last night but they had to approach my territory through a bottle-neck guarded by two citadels. They were more advanced and had a bigger army than me but some of their units were dying without me even having to attack because of the gauntlet they had to run.


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## kained&able (Feb 11, 2011)

not used citadels at all yet, the generals i tend to just use for golden age and no i mean steel and aluminium, tanks and modern navy needs em. Possibly the planes as well. Oil is pretty damn handy as well though and certainly a consideration.


dace


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## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2011)

I must be playing a different game than you. Modern units need oil or aluminium, there's no steel resource. 

You're wasting your generals using them for golden ages instead of citadels imo. I've never had a city taken largely because of how ive tactically positioned them. Good to park cannons or artillary in them.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2011)

List of game resources here:

http://www.civilization-5.net/civ5/news/item/43-strategic-resources-and-you


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## kained&able (Feb 11, 2011)

i stand corrected then.

To be hoest i've yet to have to deal with a full scale invasion in a civ5 game. I shall up the difficulty level next game in the hope that someone steps up to the plate. Cos they are still being pansy. One nibbled round the edges and took three cities of mine untill i countered and battered him and thats the most that anyones dared.

dave


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 11, 2011)

I would NEVER let anybody take a city. If that happens you have already lost.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 12, 2011)

You can play a game where nobody is interested in attacking you. Aggressive settling, wonder building and city state diplomacy can soon change how your neighbours feel about you though.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> You can play a game where nobody is interested in attacking you. Aggressive settling, wonder building and city state diplomacy can soon change how your neighbours feel about you though.


 
If you wish for peace, prepare for war


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## Voley (Feb 12, 2011)

Still playing Civ Revolution and I'm glad I've got this simpler version tbh. I'm finding that difficult enough. I'm only onto the second level and keep getting annihilated. Last two or three goes I've had, every other country has ganged up on me. It's a right sod when you're just about keeping Cleopatra from destroying your most strategically placed city and Genghis Khan starts demanding all your great people or he'll kill you too. Queen Elizabeth is a right fucking bitch, too


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## kained&able (Feb 12, 2011)

Dillinger4 said:


> I would NEVER let anybody take a city. If that happens you have already lost.



I wasn't happy about it! Me and some other bloke were taking down the germas completely indepedndently we were on bad terms and when all the terriroty had been claimed he decided to declare war on me and i couldn't get my fleet back down there quickly enough to stop my only three cities on that continent. being taken( i was having beef with someone the otherside of the map) they were also more tenchologically advanced then me(i had artilery they had the roket artilery).

I managed to hold him at the islands just of the continent and then a few turns latered countered him and took half his civ off the map. Would have finished the jb but there is another civ who owns almost half the map and so i figured he should die before he takes out any lesser ones.

dave


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## Citizen66 (Feb 13, 2011)

You need citadels. Seriously, the AI are as thick as pig shit and keep sending their units towards them rather then picking another route that circumvents them. Build them right next to or a tile away from vulnerable cities (towards enemy territory).


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 24, 2011)

If anyone still hasn't got this it's going for a tenner on Steam at the moment.


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## Epona (Jul 25, 2011)

Now that they have FINALLY released MP hotseat mode in the patch a couple of weeks ago, I am giving it a go MP with my OH.

It's a bit of fun, but still IMO nowhere near the epic classic that is CIV 4.  What OH said about CIV 5 after a few hours of our game- "It's good of them to make a game for kids, but I'm not going to play it more than once".  I wish I'd bought it for a tenner rather than paying full price for it the day it was released.  It's not a bad game, but in my opinion it's the one in the series that they fucked up.

My latest recommendation is the CIV 4 mod "Caveman 2 Cosmos" - great fun.


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## pinkychukkles (Aug 14, 2011)

Just getting into Civ 4 again after a period last year when it was serving as a piece of major task avoidance, as it is now. Have noticed that playing it on two different models of macbooks, that the fan always gets noisy - is it really that taxing on the processor?


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## belboid (Jun 12, 2014)

I've just starting playing V again. Three and a half games since the weekend (fucked up the last one, was getting my ass kicked before Jesus was even born, so sacked it). Any good mods I should be adding to it now?

And are Germany always such bastards?  I didn't remember it from before, but this last week they have been war-mongering sods from the get go, and never let up. 1000 years war in the last game, meaning I hadn't even seen where London was by the end of the game, but was still up to Lech Walesa standard, apparently


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## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2014)

I haven't played it once this year I don't think. AFAIK leaders have their own traits then there's other stuff that pisses them off. If you share a border / settled in land they desire then it can raise their heckles and that's magnified if they're expansionist. The English are always bastards if you end up next to them. Some civs you end up next to you need to consider defence strategies from the off. Research walls and upgrade as soon as you can and build defences on your shared borders, preferably on hills. 

There's lots of flashy buildings and wonders that the game entices you to rush at the expense of getting your defence sorted.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2014)

Biggest gaming disappointment of 2011...


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## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2014)

Nowhere near as big a disappointment as Sim City 5 though. By any stretch.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2014)

Lol never played that but can believe given all that's been said on here...!


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## Epona (Jun 14, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Biggest gaming disappointment of 2011...



The saddest thing to me is that I actually played it for 241 hours according to Steam (split between single and multiplayer), yet when I say I don't like it very much, some people (not people on Urban btw) still try to tell me that I just didn't "get" it and should try to play it more.  How many hours do I need to play I wonder before I finally see the wonderful shining light in this game?  It didn't really do it for me.  After hour 241 (to make a crude analogy) I sort of gently and kindly pushed it away and told it to stop trying, and went and put the kettle on for a cuppa.


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## editor (May 12, 2016)

Here comes Civilization VI 

.


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