# The New Library (Cardiff)



## Brockway (Mar 16, 2009)

Opened today. Has the ambience of a Tesco's but, in fairness, has some nice rooftop views of the city centre. On the supermarket theme the booking out and returns system is now self-service. Library regulars will be disturbed to note that the Mars bars in the chocolate machine have risen from 40p to 50p.


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## spacemonkey (Mar 16, 2009)

Ooo, I'll have to go check this out.

What time is it open till on weekdays?


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## Udo Erasmus (Mar 16, 2009)

Where is the New Library located? I stopped going when it moved to that shed for awhile.

Just on aside, the New Library houses less books than its previous incarnation (I mean before the temporary home), so in effect, we have had a library cut on the sly.


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## spacemonkey (Mar 16, 2009)

Udo Erasmus said:


> Where is the New Library located? I stopped going when it moved to that shed for awhile.
> 
> Just on aside, the New Library houses less books than its previous incarnation (I mean before the temporary home), so in effect, we have had a library cut on the sly.


 
So cynical. 

Which books were cut though? I'm sure they only cut obscure stuff that nobody ever checked out.

The new library is opposite Mill Lane, near the Hayes and chippy alley.


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## Donna Ferentes (Mar 16, 2009)

Udo Erasmus said:


> Just on aside, the New Library houses less books than its previous incarnation


Fewer.


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## Brockway (Mar 16, 2009)

spacemonkey said:


> Ooo, I'll have to go check this out.
> 
> What time is it open till on weekdays?



6pm, except Thursday, when it's open till 7pm.


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## Brockway (Mar 16, 2009)

Udo Erasmus said:


> Where is the New Library located? I stopped going when it moved to that shed for awhile.
> 
> Just on aside, the New Library houses less books than its previous incarnation (I mean before the temporary home), so in effect, we have had a library cut on the sly.



The new one is just up past Spillers on the corner of Mill Lane. You can't miss it - it looks like a municipal swimming pool circa 1973.


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## fogbat (Mar 16, 2009)

Wasn't the previous one called The New Library, too?


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## Brockway (Mar 16, 2009)

fogbat said:


> Wasn't the previous one called The New Library, too?




Yeah, this one's the new new library as opposed to the old new library and the old library which is now a tourist information centre. Hope this helps.


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## fogbat (Mar 16, 2009)

Brockway said:


> Yeah, this one's the new new library as opposed to the old new library and the old library which is now a tourist information centre. Hope this helps.





Clear as mud.


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## Ranbay (Mar 16, 2009)

It also has like a ECO roof or something...


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## ddraig (Mar 16, 2009)

with hawks guarding the grass!
on the roof


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## ddraig (Mar 16, 2009)

hawks
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7748270.stm

new library
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7929177.stm


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## Udo Erasmus (Mar 16, 2009)

spacemonkey said:


> So cynical.
> 
> Which books were cut though? I'm sure they only cut obscure stuff that nobody ever checked out.
> 
> The new library is opposite Mill Lane, near the Hayes and chippy alley.



This was the line of the Libdem council who crassly referred to getting rid of 'old, dusty books' to get shiny new ones - as if new books are better than old. Unfortunately alot of the stuff they got rid of were classic texts in various academic fields that are out-of-print now and would be extremely difficult to get hold of.


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## editor (Mar 16, 2009)

Sounds ruddy great to me:





> Funky furniture, listening hubs, a grass roof and an mini grand piano - no it's not the latest Big Brother house but Cardiff's spanking new library.
> 
> The six storey building is a world away from the dark, dank and dusty libraries of old and has already been rewarded for its green design credentials.
> 
> ...


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## spacemonkey (Mar 16, 2009)

I *heart* sedum roofs.


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 16, 2009)

Brockway said:


> Opened today. Has the ambience of a Tesco's but, in fairness, has some nice rooftop views of the city centre. On the supermarket theme the booking out and returns system is now self-service. Library regulars will be disturbed to note that the Mars bars in the chocolate machine have risen from 40p to 50p.



bastards. what about the coffee? libraries have got me through so many periods of unemployment i might just forgive them the increase, assumingly it pays for the gold plating they've put on the outside of the building!


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 16, 2009)

spacemonkey said:


> So cynical.
> 
> Which books were cut though? I'm sure they only cut obscure stuff that nobody ever checked out.
> 
> The new library is opposite Mill Lane, near the Hayes and chippy alley.


yeah why not. in fact lets get rid of anything but best sellers, we all know that the measurement of quality is popularity. More room for the literary genius of the harry potter books.


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Sounds ruddy great to me:



surprised that report could bring itself to mention the books themselves at all. And what dark dank libraries exactly? the ideology of supposed modernity makes we want to vomit. Like the victorians didnt know how to build libraries. god bog standard journos are the thickest cunts on the planet.


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## editor (Mar 16, 2009)

jannerboyuk said:


> surprised that report could bring itself to mention the books themselves at all. And what dark dank libraries exactly? the ideology of supposed modernity makes we want to vomit. Like the victorians didnt know how to build libraries. god bog standard journos are the thickest cunts on the planet.


You may not like it, but the stark truth is that people are deserting libraries in droves, so they _have_ to be tarted up to appeal to new users.

Better a pointlessly glitzy library than a closed one.


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## spacemonkey (Mar 16, 2009)

jannerboyuk said:


> yeah why not. in fact lets get rid of anything but best sellers, we all know that the measurement of quality is popularity. More room for the literary genius of the harry potter books.



Don't be ridiculous.


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## cybertect (Mar 16, 2009)

Well, architecturally, it has to be an improvement on the soulless hole that was the old 'new' library.


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## lewislewis (Mar 16, 2009)

Wouldn't a reduction in overall books be inevitably in any library? Surely the trend will be to more stuff online and digitalised, so inevitably in print stuff might decrease?


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 17, 2009)

editor said:


> You may not like it, but the stark truth is that people are deserting libraries in droves, so they _have_ to be tarted up to appeal to new users.
> 
> Better a pointlessly glitzy library than a closed one.



its not that as such but the way its reported that before the lovely nice new library it was the old dark dank days. its just bollocks really.


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 17, 2009)

spacemonkey said:


> Don't be ridiculous.


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 17, 2009)

lewislewis said:


> Wouldn't a reduction in overall books be inevitably in any library? Surely the trend will be to more stuff online and digitalised, so inevitably in print stuff might decrease?



maybe some of the rarer prints that you might not want handled too often and then could be stored away, but how many actual books can you see being digitalised and what form would that take? it would be cool if the library had some lovely new electronic books but i somehow doubt it. i know some ancient texts were digitalised years ago because each line could be referenced and made searchable (this was true when i was studying ancient history over 10 years ago at cardiff uni) but that was because there wasnt a great deal of ancient texts still knocking around.


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## Donna Ferentes (Mar 17, 2009)

jannerboyuk said:


> its not that as such but the way its reported that before the lovely nice new library it was the old dark dank days. its just bollocks really.



Well quite.

It gets presented in a really annoying manner, as if public libraries normally fitted that stereotype. Incidentally I used the old Cardiff library around ten years ago: I don't seem to remember it being dank and dark. I don't think this sort of stuff actually helps - it's more likely to reinforce stupid ideas about public libraries than to challenge them.

A lot of public libaries are increasing the amount of space they give over to computer terminals (I think Clapton, for example, is probably still in the middle of a three-month closure for that purpose). It's a two-edged sword because although it does get people into the library (good for the stats, hurrah) you do lose book space and if they're only there to use the terminals, it's not clear how much has been gained.

The books themselves - there was a controversy a few years ago where the bloke who founded Waterstone's did a report about public libraries which basically recommended

(a) that professional staff be reduced to pay for longer opening hours
(b) that they should basically just get in the latest bestselling paperbacks.

It wasn't actually as crude as I make it sound but it really didn't understand much about public library services other than getting as many people through the door as possible to borrow anything you could get them to. Librarians aren't blind to that - what made me actually angry about the report was the stupid responses (Will Hutton, Janet Street-Porter) which all happily stereotyped librarians without actually talking to any and none of which cared (or cared to know) that librarians had actually been looking _for years_ for ways to extend hours, improve services, make libraries more attractive and so on. Come to that, the question of what to buy, what to discard and why wasn't exactly neglected either.

The problem is that it's very easy for any head of library services who wants to make a name for themselves to play against the stupid stereotype and decalre that everything's changing, out with the boring old books that nobody reads, in with the PCs, lots of press releases. And never mind that the actual professional library staff have actually been changing and updating the service for years _but without losing old things that were valuable_.

Just saying, that's all. It might very well be good. I hope so. But people should actually see the new library and use it over a period of time before making up their minds. (I partly say that having been round the much-praised Peckham library and talked to the staff there, and being aware that just because something wins architecture prizes and has people going gosh-wow when it opens, doesn't necessarily mean it's so great in the longer term.)


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## llantwit (Mar 17, 2009)

lewislewis said:


> Wouldn't a reduction in overall books be inevitably in any library? Surely the trend will be to more stuff online and digitalised, so inevitably in print stuff might decrease?



That would be a really short-sighted move, ecologically speaking.


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## spacemonkey (Mar 17, 2009)

llantwit said:


> That would be a really short-sighted move, ecologically speaking.



How so?


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## Col_Buendia (Mar 17, 2009)

I was in today and had a look around. I'm sort of suspicious, because I've followed the discussion about the proposed sell off of Cardiff's antiquarian books, and not been very amused at the nature of the priorities that that episode revealed. And the whole thang of the "St Davids 2" just sucks *so much* ass it's hard to take the scale of the "mall" seriously. So having the library as an integral part of all that made me slightly wary. But I was fairly taken with the inside of the building (I still think the gold cladding on the outside looks awful). The space feels good, and there seems to be a generous supply of "stylish" chairs. There are some interesting nooks and crannies, obviously designed for people to be able to listen to music (on headphones) or work together without disturbing others. And there's a supply of free cold water. Nice! The underneath of the roof caught me by surprise, it seemed very 'rough-hewn', nearly unfinished, but obviously that is the aesthetic that they are after. All in all a promising start - it is certainly an attractive space, it remains to be seen if it holds enough attractions to bring new library users in.

(Oh, yes, it is _forested_ with internet terminals everywhere you look.)


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## llantwit (Mar 18, 2009)

spacemonkey said:


> How so?



Just that in the long term accessing books digitally is going to be far more resource-intensive than reading them in hard copy, and that throwing away large numbers of hard copy books (as lots of libraries have been doing) seems a very short-termist way of preserving knowledge for future generations.


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## spacemonkey (Mar 18, 2009)

llantwit said:


> Just that in the long term accessing books digitally is going to be far more resource-intensive than reading them in hard copy, and that throwing away large numbers of hard copy books (as lots of libraries have been doing) seems a very short-termist way of preserving knowledge for future generations.


 
Hmm, I'm not so sure. I'd like to see some figures as it's an interesting topic. Producing huge volumes of books and delivering them across the country/globe has got to be pretty resource intensive. 

Also, you're not taking into account improvements in technology. You've got the e-readers just coming onto market. They fix the page with digital ink and consume very low amounts of energy. 

The wikimedia foundation have some interesting ideas about preservation of wikipedia for future generations.


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## llantwit (Mar 18, 2009)

That's interesting.

I'm more thinking of the preservation of existing knowledge (and already printed books), to be honest. Lots of books are discarded every day, and digitisation is often used as a reason why we don't need to preserve a paper archive.

There are social as well as ecological reasons in my book too. The digital divide is very real, both in terms of access to the web (which is crucial to accessing much digital content), and in terms of the skills needed to use technology. And there's no guarantee that the digital divide we have today along class lines will be eradicated when the older generation we have now dies. It's not just an age thing.

There also come the problems associated with ownership of digital content. I am attached to a University, so can access a wealth of scolarship and digital copies of other books and cultural output very easily. But this stuff is expensive and is greedilly protected by companies which own journals and digital archives. The Victorian public library model of open access is a far nicer one than than the intellectual property dominated web model of information access which exists today. But if I lost my job the transition from being information-flush into data poverty would be a quick one.


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## PAD1OH (Mar 18, 2009)

this may be slightly biased because it is only comparing books to e-readers.. and the the type of book production is limited in scope



> This paper presents the findings of a life-cycle assessment (LCA) of two different book options –
> electronic and print. The purpose of this study is two-fold: (1) to investigate the life cycle
> environmental aspects of e-publishing of scholarly books and e-book reading devices (i.e. ereaders);
> and (2) to apply the life cycle models to a variety of scholarly e-book applications and
> ...





http://css.snre.umich.edu/css_doc/CSS03-04.pdf


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## llantwit (Mar 19, 2009)

You're right, of course. I've heard a lot about the negative impacts of the paper book production process, and it sucks. But I'm mainly talking about the importance of preserving what printed books we've got and not siply binning them, which happens a lot.

Plus, environmental impacts have to be considered in their social context, and we live in severely digitally divided nation in lots of ways (see above post).


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## Ben Bore (Mar 20, 2009)

Apart from the embarrassing giant 'best-sellers' on the outside, i actually quite liked the temporary library on Callaghans Square - it was certainly an improvement on the old New Library and was nice and spacious.

Having been on a quick visit to the new New Library, it feels very crammed.  While I also like the views from it (which will be even nicer once the building site is no more), I'm not that impressed with the 'open well' design.
It's a waste of premium floor space - which could have been used to store book (anyone remember them?), also, if you're on the fifth floor, all the noise carried up.

*Self-service returns*
The self-service system for returning books didn't impress me either.  A member of staff 'guded; me to one of the machines after I crazily thought of returnign me book over the counter. I told her I had fines to pay and explained I had to stick the book in the machine, then I'd get a receipt, which I then take to the counter to pay my fine. 
Only it didn't show that I owed a fine. Luckily I'm an honest person and payed anyway.

*Paying of fines*
I also don't think it's sensible that people can opt to pay the fine there and then or build fines up. It' will only cause grief for staff later on when someone comes in wanting to borrow books, and is told he she has a couple of quid fines from previous borrowings which must be paid first.


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## penderyn2000 (Mar 20, 2009)

Agree with Ben Bore - the library is claustrophobic, and all the more so for the many people who suffer from vertigo.  Not a welcoming place at all, especially when you come straight in to a load of machines and security gates.  Children's section is poky and very disappointing, apart from the window area.  Couldn't help but notice they only had three books by Cardiff's no 1 children's novelist, but that's another matter!
I hanker after Nottingham library, where people walked straight in off the main street into books, displays and noticeboards, where there was a cafe always full of the buzz of pupils and students, and where you didn't feel you were likely to fall fifty feet to your death if you took a wrong turning.
Are all today's architects show-off assholes who fail to understand the first thing about conviviality?  Cardiff is getting more faceless and corporate by the day.


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## Brockway (Mar 20, 2009)

penderyn2000 said:


> Agree with Ben Bore - the library is claustrophobic, and all the more so for the many people who suffer from vertigo.  Not a welcoming place at all, especially when you come straight in to a load of machines and security gates.  Children's section is poky and very disappointing, apart from the window area.  Couldn't help but notice they only had three books by Cardiff's no 1 children's novelist, but that's another matter!
> I hanker after Nottingham library, where people walked straight in off the main street into books, displays and noticeboards, where there was a cafe always full of the buzz of pupils and students, and where you didn't feel you were likely to fall fifty feet to your death if you took a wrong turning.
> Are all today's architects show-off assholes who fail to understand the first thing about conviviality?  Cardiff is getting more faceless and corporate by the day.



I don't think it's claustrophobic at all - it's open plan. I take your point about vertigo, though. No, the only thing that I don't like about the new new library is the lack of a quiet study area. You are allowed to be as noisy as you want, make calls on your mobile etc, which is cool and everything but I like a bit of silence when I'm researching. One good thing: there are chairs near the windows - reminiscent of sun-loungers - which encourage people to just sit and look out of the window and possibly nod off in the sunshine, which I think is quite a nice touch.

Oh, and I don't like the supermarket self-service either - that's a job-cutting measure if ever I've seen one.


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## penderyn2000 (Mar 21, 2009)

Aren't all libraries open plan, i.e. not divided into rooms?  What makes it claustrophobic for me is that there's no rest for the eyes.


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## PAD1OH (Mar 21, 2009)

llantwit said:


> environmental impacts have to be considered in their social context,



agree 100%


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## Donna Ferentes (Mar 21, 2009)

penderyn2000 said:


> Couldn't help but notice they only had three books by Cardiff's no 1 children's novelist, but that's another matter!



Who are you thinking of?



Brockway said:


> Oh, and I don't like the supermarket self-service either - that's a job-cutting measure if ever I've seen one.



It is, but everybody's doing it.


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## Col_Buendia (Mar 21, 2009)

Donna Ferentes said:


> Who are you thinking of?



Who indeed?


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## Donna Ferentes (Mar 21, 2009)

Well I'm assuming it's none of these


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## Col_Buendia (Mar 21, 2009)

Donna Ferentes said:


> Well I'm assuming it's none of these



Hmmm, I'm fairly sure it's not Roald Dahl!!


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## Col_Buendia (Mar 21, 2009)

penderyn2000 said:


> Agree with Ben Bore - the library is claustrophobic, and all the more so for the many people who suffer from vertigo.  Not a welcoming place at all, especially when you come straight in to a load of machines and security gates.



Don't agree that it is claustrophobic, but I reckon that's probably a matter of taste, so no point arguing the toss about that. But now you mention it, the entrance really sucks - you come in off the street and are immediately met with an anti-climax: a forest of security machines (I immediately thought it was "airport style security" for Cardiff books when I went in), which once you negotiate them, an escalator. Jeez... did they miss the (old) New Library so much that they felt they needed to forgo the chance of having a street level? How curious...


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## penderyn2000 (Mar 23, 2009)

Col_Buendia said:


> Hmmm, I'm fairly sure it's not Roald Dahl!!



More like the antidahl?


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## Brockway (Mar 23, 2009)

penderyn2000 said:


> What makes it claustrophobic for me is that there's no rest for the eyes.




That's a rather odd definition of claustrophobic. No, not all libraries are open plan - some of the Cardiff university libraries have lots of little rooms.


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 23, 2009)

had my first trip to the new library today. was ok i suppose, chairs were nice, coffee at a quid a throw not so much. just seems like a few more books would be nice but maybe thats just me.


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## Udo Erasmus (Mar 25, 2009)

When you say a coffee at a quid a throw, do you mean that they had a cafe or that a coffee machine was ripping you off? (One might always take ones books to the Hayes Tea Island up the road)

I haven't been to the library much since I'm still owing a £25 fine! They do let you pay it back in installments apparently.


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## jannerboyuk (Mar 26, 2009)

Udo Erasmus said:


> When you say a coffee at a quid a throw, do you mean that they had a cafe or that a coffee machine was ripping you off? (One might always take ones books to the Hayes Tea Island up the road)
> 
> I haven't been to the library much since I'm still owing a £25 fine! They do let you pay it back in installments apparently.



coffee machine. i dont take books out really so hayes wont work for me.


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## editor (Aug 19, 2009)

We visited the library on the weekend. I think it's fantastic - a real credit to the city. 














http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/cardiff-library-wales.html


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## cybertect (Aug 19, 2009)

The sort of thing they should have done in 1989 instead of the lame excuse for a building they shoehorned the Library into after leaving the old Central Library.


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## rhod (Aug 21, 2009)

> Among its many interesting features are the aforementioned Sedum grass roof which insulates the building in winter and prevents heat gain in the summer.



It has had only a limited success in preventing heat gain in the summer. Apparently a lot of the offices and meeting rooms have got uncomfortably hot over the last few months.

Air-con is not an option, and even lots of fans everywhere would probably jeopardise the building's eco certification. Perhaps the architects and Cardiff council should have incorporated some sort of underground heat-exchange pump (as they've got at the Assembly building) - although it probably wouldn't have left much change out of half a million quid.

The challenge of designing an eco-friendly _and user-friendly_ high rise building is a very complex one..maybe the whole thing should have been underground?


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## llion (Aug 21, 2009)

I really like the new library, especially the top floor where they've got all the Welsh books and a great place to people watch as you read.


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## Riklet (Sep 3, 2009)

I think it's fucking great as a library! Even got some revision done there for my exams a few months ago, whilst watching the rooftops and fantasising about absailing down the side, or sitting on the roof.

I guess i'm the only one who noticed if someone's sitting in those red chairs with the balls, you can pull the ball back and let it wham....


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## Brockway (Sep 9, 2009)

The new library was forced to close today at midday due to an insect infestation, apparently.


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## rhod (Sep 11, 2009)

Some homeless guy went in for a kip but he had a bit of a major lice infection, poor bugger. Same happened in Canton library.

They are closing it again today, as he came in again! Evacuating the building using the fire alarm system.

Bit of an access dilemma for any public building, but especially for a library. Time for Social services to try and get this guy some assistance, I think.


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## Brockway (Sep 13, 2009)

*scratches*

What's that climbing frame-type thing they are erecting in front of the entrance - is it modern art?


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