# Defending yourself at a disciplinary...



## TopCat (Mar 11, 2011)

I am not yet long enough a member of Unite to get representation. Any advice on making sure things are done properly? I have not yet had formal notice of the "charges" but they will come soon. 

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...okia-N8-is-there-one-(urgent-help-save-my-job)


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## dessiato (Mar 11, 2011)

You could still ask the union rep to go with you as a witness. They might not do it as 'the union' but might be prepared to go in a less official capacity


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## quimcunx (Mar 11, 2011)

I think you can also have someone else accompany you, a member of staff or anyone, really, your lawyer, maybe.   Check with the union.


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## TopCat (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks, I have left messages for the Union official but Unite seem a bit confused as to who that is at the moment. I don't know how much notice I will get of the hearing.


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## TopCat (Mar 11, 2011)

None of my colleagues will accompany me, we are a small company and they are keeping their heads down.


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## quimcunx (Mar 11, 2011)

Have a look at the acas website. 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=917


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## TopCat (Mar 11, 2011)

Thanks.


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## Voley (Mar 11, 2011)

No advice but want to wish you the best of luck.


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## TopCat (Mar 11, 2011)

Anxiety is eating me up a bit. Gross  misconduct means no reference, no benefits and goodbye home.


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## Voley (Mar 11, 2011)

Getting an objective person along with you would be your best bet, if possible. They won't be nervous like you. Any mates from the old days with legal experience that could accompany you?


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## quimcunx (Mar 11, 2011)

Maybe there is some useful advice in one of these threads.  Shame Cesare isn't around these days. 

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...?p=6112586&highlight=disciplinary#post6112586

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...?p=8431958&highlight=disciplinary#post8431958

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...?p=9290169&highlight=disciplinary#post9290169

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...?p=9741099&highlight=disciplinary#post9741099


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## TopCat (Mar 11, 2011)

Ah yes Cesare, i have her number I think.


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## quimcunx (Mar 11, 2011)




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## TopCat (Mar 12, 2011)

I will call from a landline...


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## oryx (Mar 12, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> I think you can also have someone else accompany you, a member of staff *or anyone*,/QUOTE]
> 
> I think you can get a friend, family member etc. - anyone who will help and support.
> 
> ...


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 13, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Thanks.


 
A couple of things:

1) Does your employer have a formal (i.e. included in your employment terms and conditions) disciplinary procedure?

2) If not in your T & Cs, does it have any formal disciplinary procedure at all?

3) If so, have they adhered to it (so far)? If not, have you been keeping contemporaneous records of their various communications with you, and your responses?

4) If your hearing is a formal disciplinary procedure rather than a "cup of tea and a chat" the Employment Rights Act (1999) gives you a right of accompaniment even if your employer doesn't have a formal disciplinary procedure.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 13, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Anxiety is eating me up a bit. Gross  misconduct means no reference, no benefits and goodbye home.


 
Burden of proof is on them, and if you have to take them to tribunal, the burden of proof is "the balance of probabilities", i.e. of your employer can't establish that, on the balance of probabilities you used your phone to (in essence fraudulently) download something or other for your own use, they'll shaft themselves, as will they if they don't follow the fairly simple mandated steps set out in employment regulations. 

You won't, of course, be surprised to learn that a majority of employers are too fucking stupid to follow those simple steps, which is why keeping records of your employer's actions is important.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 13, 2011)

There is some online info about obtaining a legal adviser and paying for an employment tribunal case on the Working Families website - they have a free telephone helpline which you might benefit from calling as well.


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## TopCat (Mar 13, 2011)

Cheers paulie, we have a grievance and disciplinary procedure. it has not been strictly followed so far especially given my suspension. I just need to get through this to get some space to get another job and put it all behind me. Am getting good advice from so many people. Am humbled by the level of support.


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## TopCat (Mar 13, 2011)

I have kept verbatim records of coversations and have kept emails and texts from boss too.


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## bmd (Mar 13, 2011)

I've had cause to phone ACAS recently and they were really good, so give that option a try if you don't find what you need on the website.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 14, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I have kept verbatim records of coversations and have kept emails and texts from boss too.


 
Good. It's evens that your boss hasn't kept verbatim records.

Good news too, that the idiots haven't followed their own disciplinary procedure properly. Back when I was a union steward, you wouldn't believe how many times I saw bosses shoot themselves in the foot with that one. They seem to believe that the procedure is a guideline rather than based in legislative regulation, when actually it's there to protect the boss as well as the employees.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 14, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> I've had cause to phone ACAS recently and they were really good, so give that option a try if you don't find what you need on the website.


 
This.

Of course, back in my day, you could *only* phone them, because they didn't have a website or e-mail address, just a phone number and fax number.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

Still suspended, keeping chin up.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

Got this email at 16:43 today. 

"Dear Mr. *****
                                   I have now finalised the investigation into your mobile telephone use. The results and accompanying documentation have been posted to your home address at 16:00 today by special delivery which should arrive no later than 13:00hrs tomorrow.
The result is that there will be  disciplinary hearing, in line with the Standard Disciplinary and Dismissal procedure as detailed in your contract of employment with ********* on Thursday 17th March 2011 at the company offices at ******** at 10:30 am . You are required to attend and may bring a colleague or union representative with you.You should also be aware that disciplinary action up to and including dismissal may result from this disciplinary hearing. This and other relevant information is included in the letter
Regards
********"

So I get a letter tomorrow and then less that two days to formulate a response and get a union rep to accompany me. 

Not a lot of time given I don't know the contents of the letter expected to arrive tomorrow.


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## aspirationjones (Mar 14, 2011)

Do you think they are posturing, trying to frighten you?

Sounds upsetting, as you say in the other thread on this.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

I sent the following just now. 

"Dear ******. May I please have these documents referred to below emailed to me as soon as possible? I am concerned that I will have only one and a half days to both study the posted documents and to formulate a response. Further, this short amount of notice of the disciplinary hearing reduces my chances of being able to be accompanied by my union representative as his diary is busy. "


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## _angel_ (Mar 14, 2011)

Question: why did they give you an internet mobile phone if they didn't want you to use the internet on it?? 

Also, is it possible you accidentally sat on it/ pressed something that triggered some kind of download you didn't want (this is easy to do, Swarthy has done it too)

Good luck with it anyway.


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## aspirationjones (Mar 14, 2011)

found this:
"PREPARATION FOR A DISCIPLINARY HEARING
The allegations against you should be set out fully in the letter calling you to the disciplinary hearing. If they are not or you do not understand them, ask your employer for more details or for an explanation prior to the hearing.

You are entitled to be accompanied or represented at a disciplinary hearing by a trade union official or a fellow employee. If you would prefer to be accompanied by a friend or family member your employer may agree if you ask in advance. If your representative is unavailable on the date set for the hearing, ask for the hearing to be put back to a date that is convenient.* You are entitled for the date to be put back by up to 5 working days*"

from:
http://www.nwelaw.co.uk/employee-guides/disciplinary-dismissal-hearings-guide


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## 1927 (Mar 14, 2011)

What form did the investigation take? have they actually done any investigating, ifthey have then surely they will either be able to prove tht it was deliberate act by you to download something or they wont, i they cant I fil to see how they can take any sanction against you. Where is the mobile phone policy, is there one? If not surely they are on dodgy ground.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

The letter  expect tomorrow should makes a lot of issues and processes much clearer. I reiterate thanks and appreciation for assistance.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

Getting very good advice from trade union.


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## weepiper (Mar 14, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Getting good advice from trade union official.


 
 good luck TopCat.


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## aqua (Mar 14, 2011)

good luck topcat   I wish I could help more but I'm sending you lots of luck and positive thoughts. Hope your union person can help lots. It all sounds very suspicious to me (the company actions not yours).


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## colacubes (Mar 14, 2011)

Nothing to add to the excellent advice but just wanted to add support (((Topcat)))


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## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2011)

good luck, tc


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## aspirationjones (Mar 14, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Getting very good advice from trade union.



Good - that's what they are there for - hope they can come with on the relevant day


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## magneze (Mar 15, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Getting very good advice from trade union.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 15, 2011)

Have you even been interviewed as part of the fact finding? 

The way it came across on your initial thread was that they threw some accusations at you and then suspended you whilst they got their act together.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 15, 2011)

Something that struck me last night was whether it might be worth starting your own grievance against the conduct of the management - as C66 says, it doesn't appear that they have covered themselves in glory in the way that they have gone about things so far imo?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well aside from trying to get exonerated from the charges by demonstrating that you had no idea the data had been downloaded and also about any company policy regarding data useage etc the other strategy is to question the role they played in this such as what measures they took to protect the device from unwanted charges as others have mentioned but also making sure they have followed disciplinary procedure to the letter. If they had no fact finding to establish what might have happened then they've already decided on your guilt and shot themselves in the foot in the process. And yes, i'd raise a grievance against the manager who is throwing the book at you on the basis of not being instructed on personal useage of the phone and not disabling the data capability before issuing the device. It's almost entrapment.


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## TopCat (Mar 15, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Have you even been interviewed as part of the fact finding?
> 
> The way it came across on your initial thread was that they threw some accusations at you and then suspended you whilst they got their act together.



I was "interviewed" with regard to all of this but had no notice of the meeting and was therefore not able to prepare.


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## TopCat (Mar 15, 2011)

Well I am busy writing statements and so on. The documents received today by post include a statement from my boss stating I should be dismissed. Better knuckle down and get all these defence docs done before getting them printed tonight.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 15, 2011)

Get serious about finding another job.


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## TopCat (Mar 15, 2011)

I will/am doing so.


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## Fruitloop (Mar 15, 2011)

A bit presumptive of your boss to state in advance of the disciplinary that you should be dismissed isn't it?

What sector are you in? Can urbanz help?


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## past caring (Mar 15, 2011)

Dunno how I missed this or the other thread - good luck mate. Have you actually got representation sorted now? - good mate of mine (you have met him) is f/t officer for Unite - I could see if he can pull some strings if rep at hearing is still an issue. PM/phone me if need be....


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## Citizen66 (Mar 15, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> A bit presumptive of your boss to state in advance of the disciplinary that you should be dismissed isn't it?



Yes, and it could come back to bite him on the ass. They're treating it as if he's already guilty and preparing his 'sentence' before the disciplinary has even taken place.


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## killer b (Mar 15, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes, and it could come back to bite him on the ass. They're treating it as if he's already guilty and preparing his 'sentence' before the disciplinary has even taken place.


 
looks to me like they want rid of TC, and this is the first excuse they came up with. grim.

is this the same boss who lost your company it's biggest contract last year TC?


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## RaverDrew (Mar 15, 2011)

Best of luck TC.


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## Cloo (Mar 15, 2011)

This all sounds well out of order to me, which at least means you have a good chance of coming out on top. Sorry I can't offer any advance, but best of luck with it.


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## Badgers (Mar 15, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Well I am busy writing statements and so on. The documents received today by post include a statement from my boss stating I should be dismissed. Better knuckle down and get all these defence docs done before getting them printed tonight.


 
I had this once mate. 
The line manager had a envelope containing a pre-written final warning. 
At this point I stopped the meeting and told them I had to involve HR as it was not a hearing, in so much as they were not interested in what I had to say. 
The final warning was not handed down.


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## aspirationjones (Mar 15, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes, and it could come back to bite him on the ass. They're treating it as if he's already guilty and preparing his 'sentence' before the disciplinary has even taken place.


 
Aye, sounds dodgy as fuck to me


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## TopCat (Mar 15, 2011)

Well the hearing will be chaired by a decent fella, not my boss. I may have to insist in a postponement due to the lack of notice and the busy diary of the union rep.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 15, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Well I am busy writing statements and so on. The documents received today by post include a statement from my boss stating I should be dismissed. Better knuckle down and get all these defence docs done before getting them printed tonight.


 
TC, does the "statement" from your boss state *why* you should be dismissed, as in your exact offence?

If not, it's irrelevant *and* prejudicial. His *opinion* has no relevance, all that matters is fact. If he's saying "Mr. Cat should be sacked because we can prove his behaviour has contravened section 5.6 of his T & Cs", then that's fine, but if the mardy cunt is just saying "he should be dismissed", then his opinion (as management opinion so often is) is worthless.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 15, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> A bit presumptive of your boss to state in advance of the disciplinary that you should be dismissed isn't it?



Presumptive, irrelevant and prejudicial.  The offering of an opinion, from TC's putative "superior", prior to the hearing is bad enough, given that it has the possibility of biasing the hearing against TopCat, but one that states he should be dismissed is appalling, especially if (as I suspect) this opinion isn't based on the established facts (i.e. those that can be proven) but on management wishes and speculation.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 15, 2011)

He was also stupid enough to express it in writing. 

Any half decent union rep will have him shitting himself.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 15, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes, and it could come back to bite him on the ass. They're treating it as if he's already guilty and preparing his 'sentence' before the disciplinary has even taken place.


 
More fool them, then.

Typical management arrogance, and hopefully, as you say, it'll bite them on the arse. They forget that employment disciplinary procedures have to conform to law, and that such conformity includes proceeding from a presumption of innocence. These cunts seem to have TC in chains already, and are warming up the bitumen for the tarring and feathering.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 15, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> He was also stupid enough to express it in writing.
> 
> Any half decent union rep will have him shitting himself.


 
Any half-decent union rep will be wearing incontinence pads to soak up the laughter-activated pissing. 

It's always a great sight, though, watching a bunch of management shitrags progress from looking self-satisfied, to vaguely-worried, to pale and upset, to apoplectic when you've stamped all over their "water-tight" case. 

As you might be able to tell, I do miss that sort of thing!


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## TopCat (Mar 15, 2011)

Hold your horses. its clearly stated in the papers what offence I am alleged to have committed. Its clearly stated that this, if proven comes under a specific gross misconduct clause "misuse of company property" and its clearly stated that my boss feels that this should result in my dismissal (as is usually the case with gross misconduct).


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## aspirationjones (Mar 15, 2011)

Hmm, I think that applies if there is intent (in my book anyway). But as this was accidental, I feel dismissal is way above and beyond what should be meted out


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## past caring (Mar 15, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Hold your horses. its clearly stated in the papers what offence I am alleged to have committed. Its clearly stated that this, if proven comes under a specific gross misconduct clause "misuse of company property" and its clearly stated that my boss feels that this should result in my dismissal (as is usually the case with gross misconduct).



This may well be true, but I would be surprised if any _properly drafted_ policy that took due account of the law were to stipulate that misuse of company policy is gross misconduct _in each and every circumstance_ and _must_ result in dismissal in each and every case.

Using a postage stamp from the office supply for a personal letter is misuse of company property - but done once, by an employee with an otherwise unblemished record, should it result in dismissal, even where there is nothing to offer by way of mitigation?

A personal phone call made on the company mobile - likewise.

Not being entirely familiar with the technical workings of a company smart phone so that the wrong button is innocently pressed and a data transfer occurs that will cost the company £300 is (arguably) misuse of company property - though it is even more arguable that this would amount to negligence rather than misuse. But is it really gross misconduct when the mistake occurred innocently and the employee offers to pay the bill themselves? Dismissal might be even harder to argue for where the phone records demonstrate the incident to have been a clear one-off and the employee's record is otherwise good.

As I may have mentioned, I would be slightly cautious of the "no phone policy = company's fault" approach - if the _facts_ of usage were to demonstrate a clear breach of reasonable standards it would be unlikely to get you very far - e.g. we don't have an internet use policy where I work, but I don't think that would mean an employer would be found to be acting unfairly if I were dismissed as a result of downloading porn videos at work. If the usage which is in contention here is clearly abnormal when compared to the usage of other employees, I would be more inclined to go for the accident/mistake approach unless there were some other viable explanation I could offer.


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## TopCat (Mar 15, 2011)

I have secured representation and also a postponement until next week. <insert minute smile here>


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## quimcunx (Mar 15, 2011)

That's good news.  Has the rep seen the documentation?   What do they think about it?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 15, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I have secured representation and also a postponement until next week. <insert minute smile here>


 
not a stay of execution but a breathing space before you get the result you want.

best wishes


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## TopCat (Mar 15, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> That's good news.  Has the rep seen the documentation?   What do they think about it?


 
The Unite rep thinks it's ridiculous, flawed, but potentially dangerous. I am going to see a RMT Rep for preparation advice tomorrow who is _extremely_ able and experienced. All my documents are ordered, printed out (thanks mum) and ready. Thankfully the postponement agreed had not changed the chair of the hearing. He will give me a fair hearing and is bright as a button. My head is straight and thankfully I am well on the way to recover from the severe bronchitis I have suffered this last fortnight. Respect to my step dad for cooking me a wonderful meal tonight and to all those who have expressed support. There are too many to mention here who are on my side. One love to all of you.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 16, 2011)

Glad to hear that you've got some breathing space, as it were, both bronchially and behaviourly. To my unqualified opinion, I think past-caring's arguments are quite powerful and are worth at least expounding to your rep for consideration - they may already be thinking similar things but now at least you have the opportunity to properly prepare.


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## sheothebudworths (Mar 16, 2011)

Oh TC, fucking livid for you, what a stitch up  but glad you're where you need to be now with representation, paperwork, more time to prepare, your health and last but not least, your head! 


Wishing you all the best, matey x


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2011)

past caring said:


> This may well be true, but I would be surprised if any _properly drafted_ policy that took due account of the law were to stipulate that misuse of company policy is gross misconduct _in each and every circumstance_ and _must_ result in dismissal in each and every case.
> 
> Using a postage stamp from the office supply for a personal letter is misuse of company property - but done once, by an employee with an otherwise unblemished record, should it result in dismissal, even where there is nothing to offer by way of mitigation?
> 
> ...



I agree that "no company policy = company's fault" probably won't wash but the onus is on them to lay out in writing - either in the contract or company handbook - what they deem to be acts of gross misconduct. "Misuse of company property" is very ambiguous.

Also i wouldn't advise walking in and admitting it along the lines of it was a mistake, more denying any knowledge as to how it could have occured as, simply, he hadn't been using it for the internet and can't explain it. Holding your hands up to anything plays into their hands and they'll take as an admission of guilt. Be careful not to dig yourself into any holes.


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## ddraig (Mar 16, 2011)

last paragraph very very important! ^^

glad you got help and good luck TC


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## kittyP (Mar 16, 2011)

Oh TC! Big hugs going out to you. 
I am not really in any position of wisdom but tea and sympathy I can do. 
Give us a bell if you want to pop over for a chat or dinner or something x


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## stuff_it (Mar 16, 2011)

ddraig said:


> last paragraph very very important! ^^
> 
> glad you got help and good luck TC


 
^^^This


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## Idris2002 (Mar 16, 2011)

Best of luck Mr. TopCat sir.


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## past caring (Mar 16, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I agree that "no company policy = company's fault" probably won't wash but the onus is on them to lay out in writing - either in the contract or company handbook - what they deem to be acts of gross misconduct. "Misuse of company property" is very ambiguous.



I think I said as much in the post that you replied to. That said (and speaking as a union rep who has successfully defended members from dismissal for gross misconduct on several occasions and has then, as part of the fallout of those proceedings, successfully negotiated with management to redraft disciplinary policies that were inadequate) even the _best_ policy will not provide for an exhaustive list of what constitutes gross misconduct - what it will do is give some examples (such as theft, violence against staff members or service users, incapacity during work time due to inebriation or drug use) and say that these may amount to gross misconduct. Any policy which states a particular offense is always gross misconduct and will always result in dismissal _and which is then always applied rigidly_ will potentially open the employer up to a successful ET claim due to the fact that mitigating factors are never given any weight.



> Also i wouldn't advise walking in and admitting it along the lines of it was a mistake, more denying any knowledge as to how it could have occured as, simply, he hadn't been using it for the internet and can't explain it. Holding your hands up to anything plays into their hands and they'll take as an admission of guilt. Be careful not to dig yourself into any holes.



Well, a "mistake" can encompass exactly what you're saying - but to play devil's advocate for a moment (and again, speaking from my experience as a shop steward and someone who represents claimants at appeal tribunal, I find this a useful exercise, because you need to be prepared for what the other side is likely to argue) I think TopCat may need to be able to counter the following;

1. The fact that, whether deliberate or not, the downloads/data transfers did actually occur and they occurred whilst the phone was in his care/he had responsibility for it. 

2. That his responsibility extends to ensuring that he keeps the phone safe so that no-one else is able to activate downloads/data transfer or that a download cannot be activated accidently - even if that is as the result of an innocent play about with the phone.

So far as I can gather from the other thread in the tech forum, no-one has been able to come with anything that would allow TC to argue that there was some technical error with the phone which caused the download or that there's some error on the part of the phone company and they are billing for downloads which never actually happened. If I'm right on that, I don't see how TC is able to side-step the points above.

That being so - and if you're confident that the people on the disciplinary panel are reasonable (which from his post above TC seems to be - it's just the manager who is the problem, but the manager doesn't get to make the decision) then a flat out denial - "not me guv', don't know what you're talking about" has the real possibility of turning the panel against you.

From the information available (which obviously may be incomplete or I may have misunderstood some aspect), my approach would be something along the lines of;

1. I don't know how this happened - I give you my assurance that I did not deliberately use the phone for the download/data transfer that has resulted in this large bill. Nevertheless, it seems clear that the download did occur and it is also clear that I am responsible for the phone. What _may_ have happened (I cannot be sure) is that I pressed the wrong button on the phone in error, just before going to bed or that forgot to turn on the "key lock" function so that the phone bumped against something in my work bag which activated a key that started the download entirely unbeknown to me (this does genuinely happen to me - I think I've downloaded 4 or 5 games entirely by accident in this way).

2. As you can see from my previous bills, I am not in the habit of using the phone inappropriately - I have been with this company x number of years and my bills have always been within reasonable limits or below that of others until now. I think that this fact supports my contention that what occurred on this occasion was an accident.

3. Nevertheless, I accept that as I am responsible for the phone, I could have taken more care - perhaps ensuring the "keylock" was turned on, or securing it so that others could not touch it. I promise to do this in future.

4. Because I accept responsibility, I am happy to pay the additional charges on my bill for the download/data transfer. 

5. Should my explanation be accepted I submit that in light of my previous record no more than a verbal warning is appropriate - certainly, dismissal for an innocent mistake is unjustified.

6. Lastly, as I do not have any knowledge of consciously making/requesting the data transfers that have resulted in these proceedings, in preparation for this hearing I have done some research into how they could have occurred. Whilst I have not been able to come up with any better explanation than that I've already offered, I did discover that with the kind of smart phone that we have been issued it is possible for the service provider to put a cap on downloads/data transfers - it is then simply not possible to exceed this limit whether by accident or by deliberate misuse of the phone. I am sure that we are all agreed that it would benefit the company were we able to avoid excessive phone bills in the future - that cost being both the actual cost of the bills themselves and the potential cost in terms of everybody's time, expense, stress and worsened working relationships that are caused by disciplinary proceedings. Whatever the outcome of this hearing, I hope you will all accept that I have the company's best interests at heart and that I am a passionate believer in the work that we do - I would like us to be able to avoid further disruption of this kind and so I suggest that we get in touch with the phone company as a matter of urgency in order to explore having an automatic data cap put on our phone usage 

(this last one is the killer - throws them right off their stride)


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## sorearm (Mar 16, 2011)

good luck with everything, glad you've got the hearing and representation/assistance sorted out too.

fantastic advice from past caring, absolutely fantastic.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 16, 2011)

There was something on You and Yours this afternoon. Chap'd gone to America, and (unknowingly) racked up fuckloads of download / roaming charges on his smartphone. He said that on a previous visit, he'd been fine with the £100 bill; I missed much of the thingy, but the implication was that he was being hit for lots, lots, lots more this time. Without fair warning.

Only picked up a bit of it, like I said, but when I heard it I thought of this thread.

He's been hammering the fuck out of Vodafone who originally offered 25% off, and're now offering 50% off. He's taking them to the small claims court, claiming that he doesn't owe them fuck all because of their lack of information-providing / failure of their duty of care.

Might be able to find the interview online...?


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## grit (Mar 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> claiming that he doesn't owe them fuck all because of their lack of information-providing


 
Thats not a bad idea at all


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## Wookey (Mar 16, 2011)

Great advice from PC. Good luck TopCat, but I would still be looking for another job...


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> There was something on You and Yours this afternoon. Chap'd gone to America, and (unknowingly) racked up fuckloads of download / roaming charges on his smartphone. He said that on a previous visit, he'd been fine with the £100 bill; I missed much of the thingy, but the implication was that he was being hit for lots, lots, lots more this time. Without fair warning.
> 
> Only picked up a bit of it, like I said, but when I heard it I thought of this thread.
> 
> ...


I don't think that the facts of TC's case and what you're describing are of any similar nature whatsoever really. Perhaps once the disciplinary has been sorted at best?


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## Fruitloop (Mar 16, 2011)

Is it possible that the mobile phone company has misattributed the downloads? Their billings systems are far from foolproof - I know, I've contracted for them, and worked for mobile-oriented software houses where this kind of thing (i.e. unexplained penalty-rate charges) was common - particularly in the early days when things were a bit more raw, and with new bits of kit that may not be sorted out with a proper plan and whose operation isn't well understood.

In my experience, for a single amount like this for a business customer who has signed up for a no-data plan they will often write these kinds of charges off, or adjust to some kind of on-plan 'fair price', because the customer's ongoing business is worth much more to them than the charges they've applied, particularly in the light of the miniscule amount the downloads will actually have cost the telco.

For a company to immediately turn on one of their employees over this sort of thing, particularly given the small amount of money involved, seems to me completely out of order.

ET: I see a lot of this has been suggested before. Never mind...


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 16, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> I don't think that the facts of TC's case and what you're describing are of any similar nature whatsoever really. Perhaps once the disciplinary has been sorted at best?


 
OK - the bits I picked up, and the bits that got my ears perking up, were the bloke saying that his phone'd downloaded huge quantities of data without him being aware of it doing so. Which then led to him receiving a massive bill - far larger than he was expecting.

I fully appreciate that the roaming side of things (and afaict he was used to using data in the UK) makes it more complicated / perhaps less directly relevant. And I also fully appreciate that what I'm posting is compromised by the fact that I only heard about 1/3 of the interview. 

But the bits I heard suggested that he was talking (to some extent, at least) about data being downloaded without him being aware of it / without any active input from him, which then led to substantial charges.

That might still be of no use... and a distraction, even, at worst. But I thought it might be worth mentioning.


----------



## Cloo (Mar 16, 2011)

I think Past Caring's approach is a really good one - you will not look like you're trying to wriggle out of anything, you're putting it all in context and making it clear you're not a piss-taker.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 16, 2011)

and not giving them an excuse to turn it back on you
let THEM explain their case
then nicely and calmly trash it with your rep


----------



## Corax (Mar 16, 2011)

TC, sorry if you've already answered this but if you have I've missed it:

- Have you already had formal verbal and written warnings about anything?
- If so, how long ago were they?


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## grit (Mar 16, 2011)

Corax said:


> TC, sorry if you've already answered this but if you have I've missed it:
> 
> - Have you already had formal verbal and written warnings about anything?
> - If so, how long ago were they?


 
He has a clean sheet.


----------



## Casually Red (Mar 16, 2011)

best of luck

Im up for an investigation next week for fuck knows what , cant get any details . Ive got no trade union and a pair of managerial cunts have been trying to cause me grief for about 3 years now . One of them told my new supervisor in confidence a few weeks ago Im going to be sacked . He only blabbed to me because he thought I was going to fuck him off from a height and to curry favour but i'll bet my balls he wont back me up if i use that as a defense  . Reckon im fucked basically .


----------



## Corax (Mar 16, 2011)

grit said:


> He has a clean sheet.


 
Even more patently ridiculous in that case.  I'm surprised it's even allowed to pull someone up to a disciplinary hearing like this unless they've had previous issues.  Ludicrous.

Best of luck TC.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2011)

Cloo said:


> I think Past Caring's approach is a really good one - you will not look like you're trying to wriggle out of anything, you're putting it all in context and making it clear you're not a piss-taker.



It is, although management don't always recognise these qualities when they're trying to royally shaft you was the point I was trying to make.

When I got hauled over the coals for 'gross misconduct' along with a few colleagues one guy went in to his disciplinary with his union rep with the holding his hands up but pleading ignorance approach and couldn't it be sorted out like adults etc and ended up with a written warning to be on file for two years.

I went into mine with a hardcore rep who immediately went on the attack and had the chair sweating over failures of management and I ended up with a six month caution. Although I accept mine and TC's predicaments aren't identical.


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## TopCat (Mar 17, 2011)

Spoke at length to my son about the phone last night (he is 11). He said that he had on at least two occasions (when the broadband router was playing up) used the modem facility on the phone to hook up the home pc to the internet and watched streaming vid of the Simpsons. So finally an explanation for the data usage. I got very good advice from the RMT rep yesterday. Will get a few things done today in preperation for the hearing.


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## mack (Mar 17, 2011)

Whatever happens at least you still have a smart kid!

Good luck TC.


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## Corax (Mar 17, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Spoke at length to my son about the phone last night (he is 11). He said that he had on at least two occasions (when the broadband router was playing up) used the modem facility on the phone to hook up the home pc to the internet and watched streaming vid of the Simpsons. So finally an explanation for the data usage. I got very good advice from the RMT rep yesterday. Will get a few things done today in preperation for the hearing.


 
Good on your kid for being honest about it.  That can't have been easy.


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## tommers (Mar 17, 2011)

Bloody hell.  Get your kid to go out to work and support you.  He did _what_?


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## Fruitloop (Mar 17, 2011)

Oh noes!

Still, that is pretty damn impressive for an eleven-year-old.


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## Garek (Mar 17, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Spoke at length to my son about the phone last night (he is 11). He said that he had on at least two occasions (when the broadband router was playing up) used the modem facility on the phone to hook up the home pc to the internet and watched streaming vid of the Simpsons. So finally an explanation for the data usage. I got very good advice from the RMT rep yesterday. Will get a few things done today in preperation for the hearing.


 
That's actually pretty clever. I mean fucking terrible for you, but still. 

Will this make a difference to how they are treating this?

Good luck.


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## TopCat (Mar 17, 2011)

I have two methods of charging the phone. The standard charger remains at work, at home it is plugged into the home PC via Mini USB. He sleeps in the front room where the PC is and gets up at six am way before the rest of us. . He is tech savvy my son but not bill or consequence savvy. I better get on with preparing for the hearing. Will let you all know how it went next week. Until then, thanks again for the kind support.


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## Fingers (Mar 17, 2011)

In light of this new information I am wondering if it is beneficial or not.  They will either go with the explanation and let you pay it off or they will look down on you if they think you are trying to blame it on an 11 year old kid.  I would deffo speak to your Union dude before proceeding with this one. At least it was the Simpsons and not porn!


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 17, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Hold your horses. its clearly stated in the papers what offence I am alleged to have committed. Its clearly stated that this, if proven comes under a specific gross misconduct clause "misuse of company property" and its clearly stated that my boss feels that this should result in my dismissal (as is usually the case with gross misconduct).


 
It's still not his place to make a judgement on whether you're guilty or not. 

Also, gross misconduct doesn't _de facto_ result in dismissal, as the matter of intent has to be established. Sacking someone because their phone downloaded a big system update, with no intention of fraud or misuse by the employee, for example, would be tribunal fodder.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 17, 2011)

aspirationjones said:


> Hmm, I think that applies if there is intent (in my book anyway). But as this was accidental, I feel dismissal is way above and beyond what should be meted out


 
Yep.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 18, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's still not his place to make a judgement on whether you're guilty or not.
> 
> Also, gross misconduct doesn't _de facto_ result in dismissal, as the matter of intent has to be established. Sacking someone because their phone downloaded a big system update, with no intention of fraud or misuse by the employee, for example, would be tribunal fodder.


This is very true imo.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2011)

He didn't make a judgment, he made a recommendation. Although it still strikes me as prejudicial. As VP says, dismissal is the most severe of a handful of penalties that can be given.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 18, 2011)

judgement, recommendation, it amounts to the same thing. it's not just prejudicial, it's prejudging the outcome of something that is intended to be an investigatory process, not a fucking kangaroo court.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> judgement, recommendation, it amounts to the same thing. it's not just prejudicial, it's prejudging the outcome of something that is intended to be an investigatory process, not a fucking kangaroo court.


 
That said, if you, as the plaintiff to a tribunal, can show prejudicial behaviour on the part of your employers, *they* have fucked themselves.

Hopefully, however, TC's employers will be reasonable, and acknowledge that he has dome nothing wrong.

And from a purely personal perspective, TC's boss really does come across as attempting to use this issue as a hook to snare TC with, so that he can dismiss him. From what TC has said about his employers previously, this seems like the kind of short-termist action his boss is prone to - probably thinking that if he can "save" TC's salary, then his own will be going into his bank account for a bit longer.


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## TopCat (Mar 18, 2011)

I am getting more shit thrown at me now. This is becoming a farce.


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## Crispy (Mar 18, 2011)

No way  Anything that can stick?


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## TopCat (Mar 18, 2011)

We shall see.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2011)

They've already laid out the charges against you in writing. I'm not sure that they're allowed to nail new ones on as and when they feel like it. This is meandering into victimisation territory, imo.


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## TopCat (Mar 18, 2011)

Another charge has been laid. I'm not going into it here. I think my boss may be reading this thread. I will update you all when it's all over. Thanks once more.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2011)

Good luck with it all.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 18, 2011)

Aye good luck TC!


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## stuff_it (Mar 18, 2011)

Good luck, and if you have to pay the money back you should dock the little sod's money for a week or two....lesson in 'bill consequences' innit.

I'd have thought that would be all that would come of the first thing. Hope this new stuff isn't owt too serious. 

Is it perhaps that the boss is getting very stressed himself with all the restructuring/redundancies, etc? People behave oddly under stress sometimes, but if they keep chucking stuff at you it is becoming more like a witch hunt.


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## janeb (Mar 18, 2011)

Respect you backing out of the thread for now, just wanted to say good luck


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## DrRingDing (Mar 18, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Another charge has been laid. I'm not going into it here. I think my boss may be reading this thread. I will update you all when it's all over. Thanks once more.


 
Good luck and try not to lose your rag, like I did during a disciplinary.


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## stuff_it (Mar 18, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Good luck and try not to lose your rag, like I did during a disciplinary.


 
What did you do?


This?: 'You're all cunts, I quit!!!' *lobs chair*


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## Divisive Cotton (Mar 18, 2011)

I've just read both threads

What the fuck is all this shit? 

I thought you worked for a small charity, you worked your arse off and were a valuable member? Am I missing something here?


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 18, 2011)

Fuck me, what is this? Good luck TC. 

And I'm sure TCjnr had no idea any of this could happen. He's only 11. 

Just to add to the chorus to say that the letter recommending dismissal is prejudicial. As others have said, by law you cannot consider sentence before trial like that. Does boss know it was your son who did it? No he bloody well doesn't. 

Hopefully their own stupidity will see them fall. And I hope the boss is reading this.


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2011)

Sounds like a fucking witch hunt to me.

Given that you've got a clean record, and that any reasonable person (and/or tribunal judge) would accept that your son's mistake was genuine, bringing gross misconduct charges is ridiculous.  That they (or he) are raking around trying to drum up other charges is blatant victimisation, as C66 said.

Once your Union rep has torn them a new one and you've been cleared, I hope you'll talk to the Union about bringing a charge of constructive dismissal.  Bullying like this shouldn't go unchallenged, or unpunished.

Don't let the bastards grind you down TC.


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## Spark (Mar 19, 2011)

Off topic but please please do not start making ridiculous suggestions about constructive dismissal. It is not relevant here when the point is to avoid losing TC's job. 

To claim constructive dismissal would mean resigning.  Constructive dismissal claims are notoriously difficult anyway. Why on earth would you suggest someone contemplate this when they're battling to save their job.


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## Corax (Mar 19, 2011)

Spark said:


> Off topic but please please do not start making ridiculous suggestions about constructive dismissal. It is not relevant here when the point is to avoid losing TC's job.
> 
> To claim constructive dismissal would mean resigning.  Constructive dismissal claims are notoriously difficult anyway. Why on earth would you suggest someone contemplate this when they're battling to save their job.


 
Don't be a dick.


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## manny-p (Mar 19, 2011)

Good luck mate.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 19, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> They've already laid out the charges against you in writing. I'm not sure that they're allowed to nail new ones on as and when they feel like it. This is meandering into victimisation territory, imo.


 
They're not. Unless the "offence" is part of the current disciplinary procedure as related to on the *original* notification TC was given, a fresh disciplinary procedure should be started.

It's all gravy, though. If TC's boss(es) want to shoot themselves in the foot.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 19, 2011)

Divisive Cotton said:


> I've just read both threads
> 
> What the fuck is all this shit?
> 
> I thought you worked for a small charity, you worked your arse off and were a valuable member? Am I missing something here?


 
From what TC has posted before, I suspect that his company is shedding staff, and think they've found a cheap way of doing so in TC's case.

Bear in mind that if TC is indeed good at his job and gives it 100%, that may make other people there look less than shiny, so getting rid might play well for certain people.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> Don't be a dick.


 
Spark is being realistic, insofar as constructive dismissal is hard to prove.

Unfair dismissal, though...if TC gets binned, he's got a fair start on a case there.


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## Corax (Mar 19, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Spark is being realistic, insofar as constructive dismissal is hard to prove.
> 
> Unfair dismissal, though...if TC gets binned, he's got a fair start on a case there.


 
The bit of my post that Spark's conveniently ignored:

*Once... you've been cleared, I hope you'll talk to the Union*


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> The bit of my post that Spark's conveniently ignored:
> 
> *Once... you've been cleared, I hope you'll talk to the Union*


 
Fair point. 

I hope he does, too.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Mar 19, 2011)

best of luck with this
it does look like a witchhunt from here by now.


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## grit (Mar 19, 2011)

Divisive Cotton said:


> I've just read both threads
> 
> What the fuck is all this shit?
> 
> I thought you worked for a small charity, you worked your arse off and were a valuable member? Am I missing something here?


 
Thats an accurate description, which makes the situation so fucking ridiculous.


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## spawnofsatan (Mar 19, 2011)

Shit, just read this, best of luck mate.


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## Cloo (Mar 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> Given that you've got a clean record, and that any reasonable person (and/or tribunal judge) would accept that your son's mistake was genuine, bringing gross misconduct charges is ridiculous.  That they (or he) are raking around trying to drum up other charges is blatant victimisation, as C66 said.


 Yeah, that seems wrong to me. I fucked up with something and got a warning, but I would have to have got another two before actually being dismissed. I know there are probably some things that are allowable for instant dismissal if found to be true, but expensive downloads on a piece of work tech do not sound to me like a reasonable case for it at all.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 20, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> This?: 'You're all cunts, I quit!!!' *lobs chair*



Not a million miles off 

Although I thoroughly picked through my bosses fragile personality and let him know what everybody thought of him.....even a director derided him for sucking up to the boss.

In the end about 10 people had been called up to try escort me off the premises.


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## TopCat (Mar 21, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Not a million miles off
> 
> Although I thoroughly picked through my bosses fragile personality and let him know what everybody thought of him.....even a director derided him for sucking up to the boss.
> 
> In the end about 10 people had been called up to try escort me off the premises.


 
I will be as dignified as possible. No temper issues with me.


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## Riklet (Mar 21, 2011)

Not sure if I have any decent advice, but i've followed both the threads and I think you've been pretty hardly done over, stick to your guns and have confidence in yourself and the skills n positives you provide as an employee.  Exceeding your bandwidth a bit shouldn't get you into this sort of bother.....

Best of luck anyway with how tings turn out, don't let them walk on you, fuck that, it sets a dangerous precedent with other employees apart from the fact it's kinda a bullshit unjustified situation.  Expensive Simpsons eh...


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## TopCat (Mar 23, 2011)

"What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours"  One love one and all....<insert huge fucking grin here>.


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## quimcunx (Mar 23, 2011)

Wha'pnin' Topcat?


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## Crispy (Mar 23, 2011)

Understand you don't want to talk about it, but that sounds like excellent news


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## ChrisFilter (Mar 23, 2011)

Are you going to be able to keep working for them given what they've put you through? I wouldn't be able to get over the resentment. 

Either way, glad it went well, just mystified and angry that it ever came to this.


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## wayward bob (Mar 23, 2011)

i've followed your threads but not been able to contribute anything helpful. so glad it turned out grinworthy


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## magneze (Mar 23, 2011)

Sounds like good news.


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## stuff_it (Mar 23, 2011)

\o/


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## ddraig (Mar 23, 2011)

fuckin A! glad to hear this


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## Corax (Mar 23, 2011)

W00t w00t!!  

I want to hear gory details of the twatbag boss going beetroot and unravelling completely.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2011)

pleased to hear justice has been served 

well done


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## Biddlybee (Mar 23, 2011)

Sounds like good news TC, nice one


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## Looby (Mar 23, 2011)

Hurrah, sounds like a good result topcat. : )

If you want to talk about this you could ask for the thread to be moved somewhere restricted.


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## oryx (Mar 23, 2011)

Nice one, glad it sounds like it went well for you.


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## weepiper (Mar 23, 2011)

oh glad to read some good news


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## aspirationjones (Mar 23, 2011)

isn't it


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## DrRingDing (Mar 23, 2011)

I hope it's all good TC.

....don't let your guard down tho.


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## TopCat (Mar 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I hope it's all good TC.
> 
> ....don't let your guard down tho.


 
Innit.


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## Voley (Mar 23, 2011)

Very pleased to hear that TC.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 23, 2011)




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## Badgers (Mar 24, 2011)

Heh, good news


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## EastEnder (Mar 24, 2011)




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## TopCat (Mar 24, 2011)

Good morning.
I'm entering into a compromise agreement which includes confidentiality and I'm going to obseve the letter and spirit of this, as will all other parties to the agreement. I think I am allowed to say I am very happy with the terms of the agreement.

On another note, I got awoken from gloworms bed this morning (with my head banging like a hammer) to my new crappy mobile ringing. After a quick coffee and cold water in the face I returned the call. 

It was the CEO of a respected organisation, (I had a long interview yesterday) who offered me a brilliant job, he is ok with Italy holiday dates, but worried about my salary. After three months it will be increased by a large chunk! I can't say how happy I am this morning. 

One love to all you lovely people who offered at the very least moral support, all the way to the urbanites who offered to put me up if it all went tits up. 

<skips up road laughing>


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## Crispy (Mar 24, 2011)

Turn it up!


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## spawnofsatan (Mar 24, 2011)

Well done TC!


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## Idris2002 (Mar 24, 2011)

So, with one bound he was free? Capital.


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## Corax (Mar 24, 2011)

Brilliant.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 24, 2011)

Congrats man. Good to see your luck changing for the better.


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## sheothebudworths (Mar 24, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Good morning.
> I'm entering into a compromise agreement which includes confidentiality and I'm going to obseve the letter and spirit of this, as will all other parties to the agreement. I think I am allowed to say I am very happy with the terms of the agreement.
> 
> On another note, I got awoken from gloworms bed this morning (with my head banging like a hammer) to my new crappy mobile ringing. After a quick coffee and cold water in the face I returned the call.
> ...


 
That is FUCKING ACE!  

What a result - and what a weight off all round (with the comp agreement AND the great new job!!!) - have a bloody smashing day, TC!!!!


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## twentythreedom (Mar 24, 2011)

Good on ya TC. And the sun is shining too  It's good when ya give The Man a bloody nose.


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## marty21 (Mar 24, 2011)

excellent news TC!


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## Dan U (Mar 24, 2011)

Sweet as. Nice one!


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## zenie (Mar 24, 2011)

W00t very pleased for you TC  

Your work are a bunch of fools to lose you.


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## stuff_it (Mar 24, 2011)

TBF the sweetest part has to be handing in your notice now...


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## Fingers (Mar 24, 2011)

Superb news. Nice one matey.


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## fractionMan (Mar 24, 2011)

Nice one!


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 24, 2011)

Good news! Well done TC.


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## Kanda (Mar 24, 2011)

Congrats TC


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## Badgers (Mar 24, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> TBF the sweetest part has to be handing in your notice now...


 
Fuck that, off with work related stress for a good while before quitting.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 24, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Fuck that, off with work related stress for a good while before quitting.


 
Yep. 

Given the way he was treated and the way that TC cared about his job, it's the least he should do.


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## zenie (Mar 24, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> TBF the sweetest part has to be handing in your notice now...


 
Nah a compromise agreement usually involves you leaving anyway with a pay off immic.


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## past caring (Mar 24, 2011)

Well done - nice one.

Tried calling you but don't know if I've got the right number anymore - mobile is ringing but not going to voicemail.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 24, 2011)

Man alive, that must feel good.

Congratualtions


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## grit (Mar 24, 2011)

That news has made my day


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 24, 2011)

zenie said:


> Nah a compromise agreement usually involves you leaving anyway with a pay off immic.


 
I wouldn't say "usually", but often, yeah, it's them realising they've stuck a pineapple up their own arses and paying you off to go quietly.

Congratulations to TC on his favourable outcome.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 24, 2011)

past caring said:


> Well done - nice one.
> 
> Tried calling you but don't know if I've got the right number anymore - mobile is ringing but not going to voicemail.


that's cos he's buried the fucking mobile phone at the end of the garden innit?


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## wemakeyousoundb (Mar 24, 2011)

good news


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## Voley (Mar 24, 2011)

LOL!  That is so fucking good.


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## kittyP (Mar 24, 2011)

Woop fucking Woop!!!
Get in there son!!!

And all that kinda jazz that expresses happiness and good wishes


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## Ground Elder (Mar 24, 2011)

I love a happy ending


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## Divisive Cotton (Mar 24, 2011)

Nice one!


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## boohoo (Mar 24, 2011)

Brilliant news TC!


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## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Good morning.
> I'm entering into a compromise agreement which includes confidentiality and I'm going to obseve the letter and spirit of this, as will all other parties to the agreement. I think I am allowed to say I am very happy with the terms of the agreement.
> 
> On another note, I got awoken from gloworms bed this morning (with my head banging like a hammer) to my new crappy mobile ringing. After a quick coffee and cold water in the face I returned the call.
> ...


 
sorted 

I'm so pleased this has all worked out


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## colacubes (Mar 24, 2011)

Sweet


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## sorearm (Mar 25, 2011)

well done!


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## tufty79 (Mar 25, 2011)

congrats topcat - utterly fab news


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## Mation (Mar 25, 2011)

Only just seen this thread, TC. Fucking hell! Very glad it's all worked out very well for you   x


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## Cloo (Mar 25, 2011)

Way to turn shit around, TC!


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 25, 2011)

Congrats! Does the new job come with all-you-can-eat mobile data?


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## TopCat (Mar 26, 2011)

I think on of my first actions will be to add a data bolt on to the work phone package!


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## Wookey (Mar 26, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I think on of my first actions will be to add a data bolt on to the work phone package!


 


Always learnin!

x


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## TopCat (Mar 30, 2011)

I may have to request that this thread be deleted in order to keep to the agreement about to be signed. 

Thanks again everyone. xxx


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## past caring (Mar 30, 2011)

*saves page*


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## Corax (Mar 30, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I may have to request that this thread be deleted in order to keep to the agreement about to be signed.
> 
> Thanks again everyone. xxx


 
It will live forever in our hearts.


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## fractionMan (Mar 30, 2011)

Good luck TopCat.  You're a top bloke and deserve it


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## girasol (Mar 31, 2011)

Go TopCat!!! Great news!


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## TopCat (Apr 1, 2011)

Just got the draft 2 of the reference that will be forever provided back. I wrote draft 1! My boss has insisted on deleting the last line that claims all success of the org to me and me only but I just put that in to increase the purpleness in his face and neck. The rest is as peachy as could be, as I said I got to write it. My bank account should be looking cheerful soon too.....


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## Voley (Apr 2, 2011)

Great stuff. Nice to hear some good news jobwise from anyone atm but this has been a great reversal of fortune. May your bosses face and neck hit critical levels of purpleness each time he has to print it out.


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## TopCat (Apr 2, 2011)

A member of my staff team met me in Croydon and regaled me with tales of my boss facing all the challenges I met with ease and failing miserably. He is smoking tabs constantly and drinking gallons of coffee. Plus My contacts in the phone have not all been told of my new number (there are over a a thousand) and they keep ringing him him up at all hours, my number was the emergency contact for years.  yea a reversal of fortunes indeed.  Just waiting for the cash....


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## wayward bob (Apr 2, 2011)

this thread makes me happy


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## RaverDrew (Apr 2, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Just got the draft 2 of the reference that will be forever provided back. I wrote draft 1! My boss has insisted on deleting the last line that claims all success of the org to me and me only but I just put that in to increase the purpleness in his face and neck. The rest is as peachy as could be, as I said I got to write it. My bank account should be looking cheerful soon too.....


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## Corax (Apr 2, 2011)

Gladdens the soul this does.


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## aqua (Apr 2, 2011)

Corax said:


> Gladdens the soul this does.


doesn't it just


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## TopCat (Apr 9, 2011)

The final note:

New job starts on the 18th April. No problem with CRB. Looking forward very much to it. Am working on my allotment up to then. Got a lovely email that contained the magic words from old boss. "Bacs payment sent". hahahahahahahahahahahah

Throw shit at me and see it slip off the teflon and land all over you......

hahahahahahahahahah


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## ddraig (Apr 9, 2011)

brilliant! 
enjoy basking in the righteousness, and sun


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## TopCat (Apr 9, 2011)

I love you all for the kind support.


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## Maidmarian (Apr 9, 2011)

Well done TC !


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## wemakeyousoundb (Apr 9, 2011)

I hereby rename you the teflon cat
job well done


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## TopCat (Apr 13, 2011)

Got paid in full. Job done!


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## Crispy (Apr 13, 2011)

High five so hard our palms bleed


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## sojourner (Apr 13, 2011)

Nice one, fantastic outcome


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## Corax (Apr 13, 2011)

Now send in an application for any vacancies they've got going.


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## Voley (Apr 13, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Got paid in full. Job done!


 
Wonderful.  Just fucking wonderful.


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