# Sticklers for getting in at 9am..



## Hollis (Jan 15, 2013)

Being a late starter/late leaver, it is my totally _unscientific opinion, _that those early-birds attach a certain snobbery to their early arrival that us others don't share.  Worse than that.. getting in early translates into into 'being a hard woker' where as if you say get in 10, leave at 7 those same people will discount your late leaving and think of you as abit of a slacker.  Opinions..

its the bain of my wokring life.


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## joustmaster (Jan 15, 2013)

make sure your by the door at 5pm, to make shitty comments about them leaving early.


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## Hollis (Jan 15, 2013)

Its kind of interesting that my 'current boss' (though admittedly it is not a typical sitaution) will simultaneously making slightly arsey comments about my arrival time, while make not secret about his need to 'get an early train' when he toddles off at 4.30pm. . old skool.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2013)

I think there's definitely something to the thought that if you're 'late' it's because you're slack.

Pretty sure there have been studies that show everyone has a different body clock and the regiment of 9-5 doesn't suit large swathes of the population.

I think if left to my own devices I'd go to bed 12am-2am, wake up between 8am-10am (usually at the layer end of both of those ).


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## temper_tantrum (Jan 15, 2013)

The only answer to this behaviour is to engineer a lot of 5pm meetings.


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## equationgirl (Jan 15, 2013)

Some people are just competitive about every aspect of their working life. I will have to be at my desk very early tomorrow, but that is because I have to review three patent cases before 9am.


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## Hollis (Jan 15, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I think there's definitely something to the thought that if you're 'late' it's because you're slack.


 
Well.. it also depends if you're 'late' or just have different standard working hours.  Seems to make sense - especially in London when people need to stagger journeys.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2013)

Sorry, if it wasn't clear I was agreeing - people seem to think you've slacked off if you arrive and leave (in their eyes) 'late', even if you've done the same number of hours.


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## ddraig (Jan 15, 2013)

i agree hollis and get this too now and again


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## neonwilderness (Jan 16, 2013)

There's a couple of people in my office that like to make snide remarks like that, they are best ignored though.  It was a different story this morning when the same people were half an hour late because of the snow whereas others arrived on time as usual


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## moochedit (Jan 16, 2013)

Hollis said:


> Its kind of interesting that my 'current boss' (though admittedly it is not a typical sitaution) will simultaneously making slightly arsey comments about my arrival time, while make not secret about his need to 'get an early train' when he toddles off at 4.30pm. . old skool.


 
Does he "work from home" sometimes as well?


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

I always used to get in just in time and then work late ...

But in my last job I used to arrive at 07:30 and leave on the dot of 17:00

I prefer the last timings.


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## Onket (Jan 16, 2013)

People who think they are better for getting in early are generally idiots. You raise a valid point, Hollis, but I wouldn't worry about it.

We have a 'core hours' policy at our place which makes 10-6 officially equal to 8-4.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 16, 2013)

its a perk of my job that outside of class times and meetings its up to me when and if I am in the building as long as I get my work done

this goes the other way too as I worked from 10 am till 11pm (with meal breaks) last thursday and friday at home and there is no one to witness it


huge upside isthat I 'm writing this at 8 15 am still in bed with a purring cat in my ear  with no rush to get in today


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## silverfish (Jan 16, 2013)

Human nature. everyone thinks the other person is seeing them off in some way for doing something different.

Best option is just do what you are paid to do and stop bothering what other people think.......

Until the point where what they think actually affects your pay/working conditions/performance/actual relationship with you boss.
At that point explain what you do, how you do it, how long you do it for and that you are hitting what every random targets you are supposed to

I've had to develop a thick skin. the environment I currently work in, everyone but me is working hard 12 hour shifts around the clock. I have no office hours or schedule but I'm on call 24/7

I'm paid to be there, that's my job, when they see me watching films, going to the gym and sunbathing while they are getting thrashed I'm sure it rankles some of them. Frequently a boss will bring it up and attempt to put some other random job on me to "balance up" the perceived loafing

They just get a cheery fuck off.

If I let it bother me or constantly thought about it I'd be a fucking mess.

Just stop looking at and comparing what other people do, stop worrying about what you think other people think and get on with your shit, if it really bothers you leave, move, or change your mindset till it doesn't bother you


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## Geri (Jan 16, 2013)

My office is very relaxed, we can pretty much turn up and leave when we want, as long as we do our hours. I am rarely here gone 5pm.


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## The Octagon (Jan 16, 2013)

The only issue I find is that everyone who's in early sees you arrive at 9:30 (my usual time, I'm not good in the morning, despite living 20 mins walk away and my alarm going off at 8am ), but by the time you leave at 5:30-6ish, they've all buggered off so assume you left at 5:05.

My boss is pretty good in fairness, there have been times when I've rolled in at gone 10 and she's just said "make it up whenever".


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## Santino (Jan 16, 2013)

The good thing about getting in before everyone else is that you can just piss about on the internet for a bit.


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## Random (Jan 16, 2013)

Since becoming a parent I get woken up about 6am whether I like it or not, so arriving late at work has stopped being one of my problems.


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## el-ahrairah (Jan 16, 2013)

ddraig said:


> i agree hollis and get this too now and again


 
same here.  i am not a morning person.


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## Onket (Jan 16, 2013)

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/helicopter-crash-at-vauxhall.305017/page-6#post-11886503


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## mrsfran (Jan 16, 2013)

Personally, I find it hard to understand why you'd choose to come in late and finish late - if I can be at work at 8am and finish at 4pm, I'll always choose to do that. It means the shitty part of the day - the morning - is not spent at home having a shitty morning but instead at work where you'd probably be having a shitty time anyway. You can yawn, rub your eyes, wander around half dazed in an office as well as you can at home. And your post-work relaxation/leisure time is maximised. Leaving work at 4! You're free earlier!

But I understand that not everyone feels that way. And it would be ridiculous to look down on someone who doesn't.


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## Onket (Jan 16, 2013)

1 word- Bed.


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## Fruitloop (Jan 16, 2013)

Screw that. I only just got in.


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## mrsfran (Jan 16, 2013)

Onket said:


> 1 word- Bed.


 
You've got a toddler, right?


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## Callie (Jan 16, 2013)

My favourite are the people that _come in early_.

They usually actually start work later than the rest of us though  big difference between being at work and working.


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## Onket (Jan 16, 2013)

mrsfran said:


> You've got a toddler, right?


 
I have. These days I have to get up at 6am to travel for about 3 hrs to get to work, but it doesn't stop 'bed' being the reason a lot of peopel don't like to go into work early.


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## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

Apart from when I was an NA I don't think I have ever turned up for work on time. Not intentionally - just fucking hopeless. Always used to turn up at more or less 10 on the dot, give or take twenty / thirty minutes. Wasn't as stressful turning up that time either, miss most of the hectic traffic and probably worked more productively as a result.

Probably would have been sacked in another job O_O


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## artyfarty (Jan 16, 2013)

I normally get here a fashionable 15 mins late. Last week I got in at 8 to prep for a meeting, the usual "been here since 7.30" mob were there at approx 8 and spent 45 mins chatting about football. Most of them never take lunch either. I always do.


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

I worked for a japanese company once, for a very short period of time, people would be running in from the car park because if they were late, even a second or two, they had their pay docked.

They were expected to be at their work stations from 8.00 am to 10.30 at which time they were expected to take a short break then work till lunch which they were expected to take for a precise period....

It was very regimented, of course everyone had a uniform, and very unionised. I hated it.


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## Fuchs66 (Jan 16, 2013)

Used to work with a Kiwi who took pride in turning up at work at around 11am have a coffee, read his mail and then sneak out of the office at about 1pm. He was a star to work with on missions in Russia but treated the attitude of staying in the office whether there was work or not with the disdain it deserves.


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## Fuchs66 (Jan 16, 2013)

then again I dont take office hours too seriously either if theres nowt to do.


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## ash (Jan 16, 2013)

In one of my jobs evreyone except me came in from 7 onwards.  I used to  come in at 8.30 -9 to the whole (small) team sitting in my office, usually the manger on my chair so she had to make the effert to move bitching about their husbands.  They would all clock the time as I arrived and continue chatting while I tried to prepare (around them) to go and teach!!!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 16, 2013)

I worked somewhere they introduced flexi time, most folks opted to start earlier so they could be gone sooner, I chose to start at 10. Worked out at way more then an extra hour in bed as I skipped the morning traffic.


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## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I worked somewhere they introduced flexi time, most folks opted to start earlier so they could be gone sooner, I chose to start at 10. Worked out at way more then an extra hour in bed as I skipped the morning traffic.



Yeh, the worst job I ever had was flexi time. I used to make my hours up.


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

When I was a rep, I would be expected to be visiting customers at 4.30pm while I still had a two hour drive or more to get home that evening.


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## Fez909 (Jan 16, 2013)

It's not just at work that this prejudice occurs. It's also around for those who opt to go to bed later and get up later. I often go to bed after 4am, and might not get up until 12pm.  I'm sure my flatmate thinks I'm lazy because of this, but I am asleep less than him!

Sometimes he'll go to bed at 9pm, get up at 9am, but then sneer when I told him I didn't get up until 2pm (after maybe going to bed at 6).


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## Firky (Jan 16, 2013)

What business is your sleeping routine to your flatmate? What a twat.


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## Remus Harbank (Jan 16, 2013)

my favourite ones are those that come in 'early', and passive aggressively boast about it whilst having a slap up breakfast at their desk. Using all the free milk from the office fridge


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 16, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I worked somewhere they introduced flexi time, most folks opted to start earlier so they could be gone sooner, I chose to start at 10. Worked out at way more then an extra hour in bed as I skipped the morning traffic.





Remus Harbank said:


> my favourite ones are those that come in 'early', and passive aggressively boast about it whilst having a slap up breakfast at their desk. Using all the free milk from the office fridge


what is this free milk from the office fridge you speak of?


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## Sapphireblue (Jan 16, 2013)

Onket said:


> People who think they are better for getting in early are generally idiots. You raise a valid point, Hollis, but I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> We have a 'core hours' policy at our place which makes 10-6 officially equal to 8-4.



So do we, but the early-birds still think they're better because they get up early. Annoying but i do ignore it now.


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## quimcunx (Jan 16, 2013)

The Octagon said:


> The only issue I find is that everyone who's in early sees you arrive at 9:30 (my usual time, I'm not good in the morning, despite living 20 mins walk away and my alarm going off at 8am ), but by the time you leave at 5:30-6ish, they've all buggered off so assume you left at 5:05.


 
Just assume they've all turned up at 9.25 and you'll feel much better.


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## quimcunx (Jan 16, 2013)

Random said:


> Since becoming a parent I get woken up about 6am whether I like it or not, so arriving late at work has stopped being one of my problems.


 
It'll start again once you have to get a recalcitrant toddler dressed and to the nursery before work...


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## Pingu (Jan 16, 2013)

i have a policy that goes like this:

i dont care what hours you work as long as the work gets done on time... if that means one guy works wed - fri for 14 hours a day and slobs about mon/tues.. i really dont care provided that what he is meant to complete is completed to the standards they know i expect. or start at 8 take 3 hours for lunch and finish at 6 .. not arsed.

the only rule i have is "dont take the piss" be it with expenses or anything else.

if people follow these then things will be fine, we are all adults and unless someone gives me reason to start treating them not like an adult i have a very hands off management approach. take the piss though and i can micromanage with the best (worst) of them - which i hate doing so your life will be a misserable one until things sort themselves out or you resign.

i have actually found productivity increases if you let people manage their own time. 9-5 with 30mins/whatever for luch to me is an outdated concept


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## Geri (Jan 16, 2013)

Remus Harbank said:


> my favourite ones are those that come in 'early', and passive aggressively boast about it whilst having a slap up breakfast at their desk. Using all the free milk from the office fridge


 
I use the milk from the fridge for my breakfast  Not sure Shredded Wheat can be considered a slap up breakfast though.


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## StoneRoad (Jan 16, 2013)

The only workplace which I've been at that required firm attention to punctuality was one involving running trains!
Various office/library based jobs have usually been operated on a "core hours" plus whatever was needed to get the job done. (One employer required me to be at desk and working by 0800.....but - very rarely - that was not always possible as I lived nearly 40 miles away, so the boss had to suffer my odd lapses in timekeeping, as he couldn't have done my job at my rate of accuracy and speed - and said so, several times)
Currently, I work very much closer to home, and normally the boss is relaxed about time keeping, meal and tea coffee breaks.......as long as the work gets done and to the expected highest of standards.


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## mentalchik (Jan 16, 2013)

bloody hell you guys who can almost choose your hours are lucky then...........i start work at 7am, have to sign in and out and barring the odd 5 mins would get pay docked/owe time or get a warning for not being on time


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

In my line, hours are the way to work because there is no limit to how much work you can do so you have to limit yout effort by the hours that you work.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jan 16, 2013)

I was five minutes late this morning.  My cunt of a boss emailed me after lunch saying something like "you should have made that five minutes up at lunchtime. You'll have to stay 5 minutes late instead.  The rest of the team do this, and so should you."

I wouldn't mind so much, but I'm pretty flexible to them. I work in a call centre, so it's important that time keeping is adhered to. They ask that you are at your desk 3 minutes before you're due to start, to give you time to log in. I do this every day, pretty much. But if we're pinching minutes, that works out to an hour a month of my time they get for nothing. If a call lasts beyond my home time, I have to stay on the call.  There's no system in place for me to claim that time back.  I really wanted to highlight these issues to her, buts its just not worth the "trouble maker" mark that would go against my name. Takes the fucking piss.

Rant over.


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## EastEnder (Jan 16, 2013)

Pingu said:


> i dont care what hours you work as long as the work gets done on time... if that means one guy works wed - fri for 14 hours a day and slobs about mon/tues.. i really dont care provided that what he is meant to complete is completed to the standards they know i expect. or start at 8 take 3 hours for lunch and finish at 6 .. not arsed.


This is how it should be, and if one is lucky one works in an environment where the bigwigs follow this philosophy & the underlings do not abuse the privilege.

In practice there can be issues. If one team member turns up late, leaves late, and gets a comparable amount of work done to everyone else, there should be no issue. However, if they fall behind on a project, although their commitment may be at least as good as anyone else's, there is more likely to be the suspicion that they're not pulling their weight. The early birds aren't going to hang around to see how long their colleague actually stays behind in the evenings, so can be forgiven for harbouring doubts.

Not that this should prevent flexibility in the workplace, but I do think it places an onus on the individual to ameliorate any such concerns. I am a big fan of a mature attitude to working hours, and letting grown adults work in ways which suit them best. But in the interests of office harmony I do consider it beholden on those who opt for less conventional hours to demonstrate their productivity. When I've been in the position of choosing more flexible start & end times I've taken the view that it's more important for me to show that I'm getting the job done than it might be for someone who's always at their desk by 9am. If that means I actually end up working harder than them, then so be it. Arguably I should not have to, but people are emotional creatures, prone to irrationality. For the the sake of cordial working conditions, I think it's worth the extra effort.


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## weltweit (Jan 16, 2013)

I worked for a long time (many years) on not that great a salary, I worked very long hours, my thinking was that management would reward my dedication and extra effort.

They did not.


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## maomao (Jan 16, 2013)

I work shifts so if I'm late someone else has to sit there doing my job till I get there so I'm always on time. I don't want to be sat there 12 hours later waiting for the night guy to turn up. I have a colleague, also on shifts though an hour before me, who is routinely late every day and when I pull him up on it he says it's just his way of getting back at the company. He's not getting back at the company though, it's no skin off the boss's nose who's sat at the desk, just means someone else is doing his job till he gets there.


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## Pingu (Jan 16, 2013)

EastEnder said:


> But in the interests of office harmony I do consider it beholden on those who opt for less conventional hours to demonstrate their productivity. When I've been in the position of choosing more flexible start & end times I've taken the view that it's more important for me to show that I'm getting the job done than it might be for someone who's always at their desk by 9am. If that means I actually end up working harder than them, then so be it. Arguably I should not have to, but people are emotional creatures, prone to irrationality. For the the sake of cordial working conditions, I think it's worth the extra effort.


 
and tbh this is whaty i have found with the guys that work for me. those who do take a more liberal attitude towards working hours actually tend to be more productive than those who do 9-5. we have regular project debrief/ sessions when everyone attends (held virtually) so everyone knows who is doing what and we redistribute the workloads if needed. i dont think we have ever had an arguamnet about people pulling their weight.

management wise it does mean i have to be good at estimating how long stuff takes and how complex things are but we do ok. the occaisional wobble but tahts normal.

there are times when people have to be "at work" at a certain time depending on client requirements but thats how the cookie crumbles.

we are lucky in taht what we do lends itself to this way of working.. not every job will.


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## Balham (Jan 16, 2013)

Did shift work so hours varied. Though loved overtime so on a late shift (15h00 - 23h00) would often find myself staying on until as late (or as early) as 05h00.

Similar comparison I suppose could be drawn with sleeping habits. Are people that get up at 10h00 more lazy than those that get up at 07h00? If 10h00 person went to bed at 02h00 and 07h00 person went to bed at 23h00 both have had their eight hours but the first one will be perhaps seen as more lazy.


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## Hollis (Jan 16, 2013)

mrsfran said:


> And your post-work relaxation/leisure time is maximised. Leaving work at 4! You're free earlier!


 
Yeah but the sort of person who gets in early, is the sort that spends their entire evening preparing their lunch for the following day. _Fact.  _


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## ymu (Jan 16, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> It's not just at work that this prejudice occurs. It's also around for those who opt to go to bed later and get up later. I often go to bed after 4am, and might not get up until 12pm. I'm sure my flatmate thinks I'm lazy because of this, but I am asleep less than him!
> 
> Sometimes he'll go to bed at 9pm, get up at 9am, but then sneer when I told him I didn't get up until 2pm (after maybe going to bed at 6).


Yes, I get this all the time. I have a circadian rhythm disorder which gives me a natural sleep time of around 6am and sometimes a very erratic non-24 hour pattern. To get shit for being in late _and_ have the cunts making snide remarks about sleeping in for hours on end when you're lucky to get two hours sleep on a school night is really fucking stressful. 

My first boss was really good about it - "I'm not going to tell you to get in earlier when I'm in your office late every night telling you to go home" - but that just enraged the clock-watchers even more. They audited workloads to prove that I was doing less than everyone else, and then quietly buried the audit when it showed I did more. They audited my flexi-sheets to prove that I was inventing my hours, and I ended up getting an extra 5 days holiday out of it.

This, of course, only enraged them further. Which is why I'm self-employed and broke. Cunts.


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## quimcunx (Jan 16, 2013)

mrsfran said:


> Personally, I find it hard to understand why you'd choose to come in late and finish late - if I can be at work at 8am and finish at 4pm, I'll always choose to do that. It means the shitty part of the day - the morning - is not spent at home having a shitty morning but instead at work where you'd probably be having a shitty time anyway. You can yawn, rub your eyes, wander around half dazed in an office as well as you can at home. And your post-work relaxation/leisure time is maximised. Leaving work at 4! You're free earlier!
> 
> But I understand that not everyone feels that way. And it would be ridiculous to look down on someone who doesn't.


 
As onket said, bed.  People who choose to start at 10 aren't waking up at 6am then twiddling their thumbs in a grumpy mood for hours til they leave for work.  they get up later, get to work later, leave work later, get home later go to bed later. It's the same day  but shunted back a couple of hours. 

I'll concede finishing at 4 is an advantage if you want to go shopping or watch home and away.


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## Onket (Jan 17, 2013)

Jon-of-arc said:


> I was five minutes late this morning.  My cunt of a boss emailed me after lunch saying something like "you should have made that five minutes up at lunchtime. You'll have to stay 5 minutes late instead.  The rest of the team do this, and so should you."
> 
> I wouldn't mind so much, but I'm pretty flexible to them. I work in a call centre, so it's important that time keeping is adhered to. They ask that you are at your desk 3 minutes before you're due to start, to give you time to log in. I do this every day, pretty much. But if we're pinching minutes, that works out to an hour a month of my time they get for nothing. If a call lasts beyond my home time, I have to stay on the call.  There's no system in place for me to claim that time back.  I really wanted to highlight these issues to her, buts its just not worth the "trouble maker" mark that would go against my name. Takes the fucking piss.
> 
> Rant over.



Callcentres are bastards for this, you have my sympathy.


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## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Jon-of-arc said:


> I was five minutes late this morning. My cunt of a boss emailed me after lunch saying something like "you should have made that five minutes up at lunchtime. You'll have to stay 5 minutes late instead. The rest of the team do this, and so should you."
> 
> I wouldn't mind so much, but I'm pretty flexible to them. I work in a call centre, so it's important that time keeping is adhered to. They ask that you are at your desk 3 minutes before you're due to start, to give you time to log in. I do this every day, pretty much. But if we're pinching minutes, that works out to an hour a month of my time they get for nothing. If a call lasts beyond my home time, I have to stay on the call. There's no system in place for me to claim that time back. I really wanted to highlight these issues to her, buts its just not worth the "trouble maker" mark that would go against my name. Takes the fucking piss.
> 
> Rant over.


Logging in and completing calls are work activity and should be done on company time. I think that's a breach of NMW legislation. Not that that helps when you'll get screwed over for being a trouble-maker if you mention it.

However, if you have access to accurate time-sheets you can go for a back-claim. It's the kind of thing that you'd probably want to do as a large group, or wait and hit them with a claim when you're ready to move on. Or get the next person who leaves to set a precedent.


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## joustmaster (Jan 17, 2013)

I turn up and leave when ever I see fit. My boss is never in the country.

They would never question my hours though, as they know I put in well over my paid time.

There is one Guy who comes in at 7am. Sits by the door and comments on peoples arrival time.


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## weltweit (Jan 17, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> ...
> There is one Guy who comes in at 7am. Sits by the door and comments on peoples arrival time.


There is a name for people like that :

A Wanker !!


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 17, 2013)

Today I got in for 7. Because i am highly effective. i am a tiger. I am a winner.

Am i fuck. We are having our bathroom replaced so I have to shower at work at the moment. I figured if I got in earlier I would avoid all those wankers that shower togther and talk with their naked shower buddies about work and cars and shit. And probably sportsball. When they all really want to give each other soapy handjobs whilst talking about fucking toyotas or fucking bonuses. Or something. Wankers.

Having never been in a communal shower setting since school, it has somewhat surprised me that these people who I thought were nothing more than caricatures of Chris Morris' imagination actually really exist. Who the fuck are these people. I mean, yes they are my colleagues but they are not people I notice. All the colleagues I like are normal people. They are nice. Not these bunch of shower cunts.. All getting in early and brown nosing each other in the gym. "Hi Lasse,I can spot those weights for you and talk about projections for 2013, but would I'd really like to do is rim you whilst you give me a reach around to a Phil Collins soundtrack".

Fuck them and their camaraderie

Oh and getting in early didnt mean I avoided them. There was more. Of the even bigger wankers that get in early and stay late.


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## Onket (Jan 17, 2013)

Where do you work?! We've got one mouldy shower cubicle per building!


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 17, 2013)

I work for a Pharma company.


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## seeformiles (Jan 17, 2013)

weltweit said:


> I worked for a long time (many years) on not that great a salary, I worked very long hours, my thinking was that management would reward my dedication and extra effort.
> 
> They did not.


 
My mate does this for a company that would shit on him as soon as look at him. He even goes in on weekends and any day he can't think of anything better to do for no extra pay..

When I worked for the same company (16 years ago) I had a manager who made a point of being "First in and Last Out" and got really annoyed if he couldn't do this (e.g. if his car was out of action and he had to get a lift with someone who left on time). On those occasions I used to work overtime just to see how annoyed he'd get. 

I start at 7.30 and finish about 16.00 if I can get away with it. I really resent working late in the afternoon but I'm a "morning person" in the sense that I consider work a necessary evil to be got out of the way so the rest of the day can begin. I find that time flies when I'm half asleep in the morning and drags once I'm fully awake in the afternoon. Also I miss the rush-hour at both ends of the day. Works for me but, oddly enough, I get more jibes from people who start a couple of hours later and see me going at 4pm! (cries of "Part-timer!" ringing in my ears....)


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## astral (Jan 17, 2013)

My flexi time is the best thing about my current job.  Core hours of 10-4, I'm meant to work 7.5 hours a day, but so long as I do 37.5 hours a week no one really cares if I do two 12 hour days and then some shorter ones as well.  As it is I'm working closer to ten hour days every day at the minute

I feel bad, because the team I manage have to work shifts - either 8-4 or 10-6 and don't have the options that I do.  I try and make up for this by being flexible about swapping around shifts and not being pissy if someone is occasionally 10 minutes late.  The jobs were advertised as shift work though and everyone took the role knowing that due to SLAs they would be expected to work these patterns.  It was made very clear at interview that this was non negotiable and was a core part of the position.


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## girasol (Jan 17, 2013)

When I turn up to the office, I'm in at 7:30, but out the door at 4:00/4:30 - people do all sorts of different times at work, don't think anyone cares. Well, I'm sure *someone* cares, but, how sad of them to do so...

Also a morning person - I start to fade after 2 and need physical activity to perk up again!


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## girasol (Jan 17, 2013)

Random said:


> Since becoming a parent I get woken up about 6am whether I like it or not, so arriving late at work has stopped being one of my problems.


 
This is my main reason for arriving early and leaving early - although my son is almost an adult now  The habit just stuck with me. Also, I wouldn't assume that 'early birds' think they are better than everyone else - not unless they make it clear, in which case, fuck 'em.

The other thing about 'early birds', they may also be, wrongly, seen as slackers, as the normal/later birds don't know what time they get in and may just assume they are leaving earlier than they should. In short, we shouldn't hate each other. That's what 'The Man' wants us to do  - have us all watching one another and being all stupidly competitive.  Come on!


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## weltweit (Jan 17, 2013)

I have never had flexitime

Apart from the "you can do as much as you like" kind!


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## Cloo (Jan 17, 2013)

Geri said:


> My office is very relaxed, we can pretty much turn up and leave when we want, as long as we do our hours. I am rarely here gone 5pm.


I think it's much the best way to run things. In my last place, one of our designers was just not a morning person and couldn't get his brain working before about 10am, so he came in after ten every day and worked his hours. Meant he worked at his optimum, rather than wasting a hour when he'd basically still be asleep even if he got in.


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## Onket (Jan 17, 2013)

girasol said:


> This is my main reason for arriving early and leaving early - although my son is almost an adult now  The habit just stuck with me. Also, I wouldn't assume that 'early birds' think they are better than everyone else - not unless they make it clear, in which case, fuck 'em.
> 
> The other thing about 'early birds', they may also be, wrongly, seen as slackers, as the normal/later birds don't know what time they get in and may just assume they are leaving earlier than they should. In short, we shouldn't hate each other. That's what 'The Man' wants us to do  - have us all watching one another and being all stupidly competitive. Come on!


 
Fair points, but I think this thread is about the people who come in early & then lord it over those that come in at a normal time or even do a 10-6. There used to be plenty in my office but I've silenced them.


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## ymu (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes, it does affect early birds too. And it's only ever a minority that get cunty. The ones who sit there watching the clock all day, IME. But they can get _really_ cunty.

Boring anecdote alert:

I shared an office with a guy who was interviewed for the same job as I was, and they decided to take both of us on. We got on well enough but there were some odd tensions, which he explained in a huge outburst one day. He felt that they valued me more than him because I'd got the more interesting job.Not true, but he clearly believed it (his boss was a bit shit).

Shortly after that, someone on a permanent contract left. We didn't make people compete for permanent contracts when they came up, they just went to the person who'd been there longest on temporary contracts. I had been available to start a few days before the other guy, so it was offered to me ... which would have been disastrous for our working relationship at that point. So I got our bosses together and told them to give it to him because he had three kids and needed to remortgage.

This grand gesture would have been pointless if he'd known about it, so I asked them not to tell anyone that I'd turned it down and told his boss to use it as an opportunity to stroke the guy's ego.

Next thing I know, the embittered middle manager who had repeatedly tried and failed to get me sacked spread it around the office that it wasn't offered to me because of my poor time-keeping. I just had to sit there listening to them and couldn't say a word to defend myself.  

Fuck me. I'd forgotten how much that bothered me.

One of these types was still having a go at me at a wedding _six years_ after I left that job. The first time I'd ever had a partner there to stick up for me. And he did.


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## EastEnder (Jan 17, 2013)

girasol said:


> Also a morning person - I start to fade after 2 and need physical activity to perk up again!


Just nip to the bogs for a quick tommy tank.


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## DrRingDing (Jan 17, 2013)

I dislike self righteous, early to work, wankers.

First against the wall IMO.


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## neonwilderness (Jan 17, 2013)

seeformiles said:


> When I worked for the same company (16 years ago) I had a manager who made a point of being "First in and Last Out" and got really annoyed if he couldn't do this (e.g. if his car was out of action and he had to get a lift with someone who left on time). On those occasions I used to work overtime just to see how annoyed he'd get.


My line manager is like this, when I occasionally work late she'll be hanging around with nothing to do so if I'm not in a rush I'll usually try to string my work out as long as possible 

My morning timekeeping is a bit lax due to me having quite a short journey (I can either be on time most of the time and occasionally late, or early most of the time and occasionally on time) and not really being a morning person.  Thankfully a lot of my work is for the directors who know how much I do (or don't do) and at least one of them is more than willing to tell my manager to STFU when she's being a jobsworth


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## seeformiles (Jan 17, 2013)

From all posts on here I think the culture of "First in, Last out" is a relic from the 80s. People get in at various times - early or late depending on circumstances, children, avoiding traffic if travelling from further away, etc. 
May I suggest we turn our real ire on people guilty of "presenteeism" i.e. the ones who, if you've had a sick day, let you know loudly that they've never had so much as a single day off in 10 years and come in spreading their bloody germs just so their absence record (and self-righteousness) remains intact


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## Hollis (Jan 17, 2013)

seeformiles said:


> May I suggest we turn our real ire on people guilty of "presenteeism" i.e. the ones who, if you've had a sick day, let you know loudly that they've never had so much as a single day off in 10 years and come in spreading their bloody germs just so their absence record (and self-righteousness) remains intact


 
Have to admit to a certain smugness when I make it in during 'bad weather' conditions. Can't stand all these folk " working from home" because a few snowflakes have been spotted. Pathetic!!   Spirit of the Blitz.


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## DrRingDing (Jan 17, 2013)

Hollis said:


> Have to admit to a certain smugness when I make it in during 'bad weather' conditions. Can't stand all these folk " working from home" because a few snowflakes have been spotted. Pathetic!!  Spirit of the Blitz.


 
Going to work in an office is not heroic Hollis.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't think I've turned up at 9am at any job since the first week there. Maybe if some cunt organised a meeting for then, but they tend to wait until at least 10.

I used to regularly turn up from half nine up to maybe quarter past ten without saying anything. I never had anyone criticise (to my face) though they would make the odd joke sometimes - that's fine. I didn't make any particular effort to stay late either, I just did the work and had decent line managers who didn't care about that sort of shit. Most people just cock about until about 10am anyway.

Oh, and fuck dress codes too while I'm at it.


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## Hollis (Jan 17, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Going to work in an office is not heroic Hollis.


 
Speak for yourself.


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## Plumdaff (Jan 17, 2013)

I had always been a late in, late out person (well a request late shift person as until recently I did work that involved shifts) until I fell pregnant and started doing 8 til 4 to avoid the worst of the rush hour on the tube. It was such a pleasant difference I think I'll always try to work those hours in the future.


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## snadge (Jan 17, 2013)

Being hourly paid I usually get a set amount of work to do and can leave when it is done but get paid for 10 hours whatever time I finish. I have to be in for 7.30 AM though best one I have had was when I found a far better way of doing a job and we were away by 10.30 every day.

I worked for another company on Night shift start at 6pm and we had to stay to get paid, clock in and out, the amount of work we had could be done in a couple of hours, we used to pick the lock on the clock and wind it to our finish time, clock out, then put it back to the correct time, in the pub for 9 pm every day.


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## souljacker (Jan 17, 2013)

I work from home so basically do the hours I want. Its more of a case that I do the work assigned to me rather than have a set time to start and end working. I'm working on a tender now and probably wont finish until around 10pm. I will hopefully be in the pub by 3 tomorrow.


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## seeformiles (Jan 18, 2013)

Hollis said:


> Have to admit to a certain smugness when I make it in during 'bad weather' conditions. Can't stand all these folk " working from home" because a few snowflakes have been spotted. Pathetic!!  Spirit of the Blitz.


 
I can't work from home and if I don't turn up (even in the snow) I'll get a day docked from holiday. I have walked the 5 miles in once when it was blowing a blizzard. I met a workmate at the bus-stop, found that the buses weren't running and thought (since we were dressed for it) we'd have a Yorkshire "Arctic" adventure. When we got to work we were told to go home so (holiday safe) walked back via several pubs, helped push cars out of trouble on the way, smoked a few doobs and got home about 5pm absolutely paralytic. Great fun!


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 18, 2013)

Arrive at work at 6am and then leave at 2pm. See how they like that.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 18, 2013)

****smug alert****

I am working at home today taking calls, marking work and answering emails from my bed, with added cats
(contrasts with yesterday when sat listening to presentations for an exam from 1.30 till 9pm)


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## Onket (Jan 18, 2013)

I left work just before 2pm. Hope I can get home. I got in at 9:50 having left home at 6:20.

Where's MY medal?!


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## Dan U (Jan 18, 2013)

Onket said:


> I left work just before 2pm. Hope I can get home. I got in at 9:50 having left home at 6:20.
> 
> Where's MY medal?!


 
if you see this Onket text me how the journey goes? some of the fellas are training it down tonight on the same route pretty much.


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## Onket (Jan 18, 2013)

Was alright. Delayed about 20 mins. I left hours before rush hour, though.


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## tufty79 (Jan 18, 2013)

ymu said:


> However, if you have access to accurate time-sheets you can go for a back-claim



call centres will have a log of *when* people have been logged in/out of their phones, so it's all recorded regardless of timesheets if that helps? (you might need to be friendly with someone with access to those stats and being willing to print 'em off, mind).


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## ymu (Jan 18, 2013)

tufty79 said:


> call centres will have a log of *when* people have been logged in/out of their phones, so it's all recorded regardless of timesheets if that helps? (you might need to be friendly with someone with access to those stats and being willing to print 'em off, mind).


If you got HMRC to take the case on, they can access those records.



> *Record keeping*
> 
> You must keep records that show you pay at least the national minimum wage to anyone who works for you and is entitled to it.
> 
> ...


 
What are your workmates like Jon? If the company has been taking the piss like this, you're all in for a nice windfall. Revenge taken via NMW legislation would very expensive and very sweet and it would help loads of other people now and in the future. Has to be done, no?


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## felixthecat (Jan 18, 2013)

I LOVE starting work early. I get stuff done without being bothered by the crap and noise that happens when everyone is in. I'm at my best in the morning and can get my admin/audits/referrals/non-patient related stuff done properly.

AND it means I can take Friday afternoon off


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## stuff_it (Jan 18, 2013)

Callie said:


> My favourite are the people that _come in early_.
> 
> They usually actually start work later than the rest of us though  big difference between being at work and working.


Oh yes, when I was on flexi-time and we did our own timesheets I used to work out what time my supervisor got in and try to be there at least ten minutes before each day.

Of course again with the self-monitored flexi-time if I aimed for early I could fool my brain into thinking that I could turn up 2-3 hours late(er than normal) and still be on time.


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## ymu (Jan 18, 2013)

felixthecat said:


> I LOVE starting work early. I get stuff done without being bothered by the crap and noise that happens when everyone is in. I'm at my best in the morning and can get my admin/audits/referrals/non-patient related stuff done properly.
> 
> AND it means I can take Friday afternoon off


Starting late gives you much the same advantages. The reason I lasted in normal employment as long as I did was the boost in productivity that comes from working overnight with zero distractions. Same with school. I didn't do mornings in my last year because I actually needed to get some work done if I was going to pass the exams and that meant getting some sleep. They expelled me, but not until I'd done my A levels. Cynical cunts.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> Starting late gives you much the same advantages. The reason I lasted in normal employment as long as I did was the boost in productivity that comes from working overnight with zero distractions. Same with school. I didn't do mornings in my last year because I actually needed to get some work done if I was going to pass the exams and that meant getting some sleep. They expelled me, but not until I'd done my A levels. Cynical cunts.


yes I like working late when people arent there
I do work well at night


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## felixthecat (Jan 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> Starting late gives you much the same advantages. The reason I lasted in normal employment as long as I did was the boost in productivity that comes from working overnight with zero distractions. ..


 
True. I'm just at my best in the morning. What I'd really like to do is start at 6am and finish at lunchtime. I don't like having breaks because I get out of work mode so I'd just work thru. Unfortunately that doesn't fit in with everybody else tho!


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## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

Horses for courses innit. I like to work through too. 48 hours straight was not unusual when I was young enough not to need sleep. If I was ever in before the people I shared an office with, it was because I'd been there all night. Was a standing joke.

That reminds me. Teenagers nearly all have a temporary form of my sleep disorder (delayed sleep), and a need for more sleep than younger or older people. Some schools are experimenting with later hours for older pupils so that they can get enough sleep to concentrate during the day.

Fucking fantastic development, and something parents might want to keep in mind if their kid is having problems with early starts. Mine couldn't help me with my school because they did not know what was wrong with me. No one did, the syndrome wasn't identified until I was in my mid-20s. No excuses these days - leave them kids alone.


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## equationgirl (Jan 19, 2013)

we have to work 8.5 hours a day Mon-Thurs and 5 hours on a Friday. If I'm late by 5 minutes or more, the system flags it, as each manager gets timekeeping reports, despite management/HR stating that the new swipe in/out security system wouldn't be used for timekeeping monitoring. But if I work extra time, which normally happens each week, that doesn't count. Fortunately my boss is sensible.


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## idumea (Jan 19, 2013)

mrsfran said:


> Personally, I find it hard to understand why you'd choose to come in late and finish late - if I can be at work at 8am and finish at 4pm, I'll always choose to do that. It means the shitty part of the day - the morning - is not spent at home having a shitty morning but instead at work where you'd probably be having a shitty time anyway. You can yawn, rub your eyes, wander around half dazed in an office as well as you can at home. And your post-work relaxation/leisure time is maximised. Leaving work at 4! You're free earlier!
> 
> But I understand that not everyone feels that way. And it would be ridiculous to look down on someone who doesn't.


 
I work 10-6 instead of 9-5. It's really really tough for me to get out of bed in the morning. I'd rather lie in and have the extra sleep. I also work better if I'm on my own in the office after most people have gone. It's less stressful, the phone isn't ringing, I get much more done.


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## MBV (Jan 19, 2013)

I got 8-4 agreed prior to starting as I find I'm more productive early doors.


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## moose (Jan 20, 2013)

I refuse to get in at 9 because then I'd have to listen to them all slurping away on the breakfast cereal they keep in the office, ffs, or smell their stinky microwave porridge. I get in 9.30-ish. when the bowls are in the dishwasher. I work ridiculous amounts of unpaid overtime at the other end of the day, though.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 20, 2013)

my favourite time to be in the office is friday afternoon as no one else is in and i can just work through everything
office dynamics and clients really distract from getting through stuff


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## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2013)

Miss-Shelf said:


> my favourite time to be in the office is friday afternoon as no one else is in and i can just work through everything
> office dynamics and clients really distract from getting through stuff


I've started working extra time on Fridays. It's nicer when it's quieter


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## Poot (Jan 20, 2013)

I can't bear being late for anything, work included. Tomorrow I have to drop my son at school at 9, so I will be late. I'm already cacking it. And I usually work alone, so it's not like anyone will probably even know


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## baldrick (Jan 20, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> we have to work 8.5 hours a day Mon-Thurs and 5 hours on a Friday. If I'm late by 5 minutes or more, the system flags it, as each manager gets timekeeping reports, despite management/HR stating that the new swipe in/out security system wouldn't be used for timekeeping monitoring. But if I work extra time, which normally happens each week, that doesn't count. Fortunately my boss is sensible.


 we don't have to clock in but I've fallen foul of that sort of thing a few times. Got carpeted by the boss for being consistently 5 minutes late in the morning but no allowance for the unpaid hours I was doing at the end of the day. Soon stopped doing unpaid overtime though so she shot herself in the foot with that one.


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## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2013)

baldrick said:


> we don't have to clock in but I've fallen foul of that sort of thing a few times. Got carpeted by the boss for being consistently 5 minutes late in the morning but no allowance for the unpaid hours I was doing at the end of the day. Soon stopped doing unpaid overtime though so she shot herself in the foot with that one.


With the last boss, we all worked exact hours and no more unless paid because she was so unreasonable.


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

baldrick said:


> we don't have to clock in but I've fallen foul of that sort of thing a few times. Got carpeted by the boss for being consistently 5 minutes late in the morning but no allowance for the unpaid hours I was doing at the end of the day. Soon stopped doing unpaid overtime though so she shot herself in the foot with that one.


Process-driven management is a counter-productive nightmare. I've seen a whole department killed by it. When I started you couldn't get a parking space after 9am, by the time I left you could park any time of day - so many people fucking off and not being replaced for months on end because HR were so fucking incompetent (apart from at getting people to resign), and so much more sick leave being taken.

I also saw a department flourish spectacularly under new management. First announcement was "All us senior scientists are shit at management. You guys know how this place works, so we're turning it over to you." In practice that meant management committees with a senior staff member signing off on decisions, and reporting back to staff meetings so that we could all see when a committee wasn't functioning and work out how to sort it. It meant people who never worked together needed each other. The finance committee saved enough in the first year to allow the IT committee to replace the worst computers and the health and safety committee to get better office furniture, etc etc. It also gave people scope to tweak their own job descriptions and gain skills they wouldn't otherwise have had access to.

The second announcement was "I will always fight your corner with Head Office, but better salaries and higher grades are not in my gift. So, I will make sure you get the best training possible so you can go off and get a job where you're properly rewarded." Lots of people got funding and study time for training or degrees, people who wouldn't normally get to go to conferences were encouraged to submit abstracts and guaranteed funding to attend if it was accepted.

When I started the median survival for non-senior staff was under two years. By the time I left, five years later, the median survival was five years. And our site review told Head Office to give us more money to do less work. So they merged us with a failing unit, put the boss of the failing unit in charge and moved us to London.


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## baldrick (Jan 20, 2013)

It doesn't foster loyalty that's for certain. Same boss told me off for applying for time off for a job interview without telling her first. No interest in why i wanted to go obv.


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

It always amazes me people that stupid can get promoted that far. Peter Principle I guess.


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## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2013)

ymu said:


> It always amazes me people that stupid can get promoted that far. Peter Principle I guess.


It's the Turd Management Theory - turds always float on top.


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## neonwilderness (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm hoping we get some heavy snow overnight so I can get in first tomorrow (I'm closest to the office) and tut loudly and make comments about the night shift arriving when the sticklers are late


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## ymu (Jan 21, 2013)

If you promise to only do it to those who usually tut at late arrivals, I'll like that post.


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## neonwilderness (Jan 21, 2013)

Of course 

I was also last out on Friday after they all buggered off early


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