# Where is Beckenham?



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

Is it in Greater London - by virtue of being within Bromley BC, or is it in Kent - as most wot live here seem to believe, or is it in London and Kent?

I assumed it was in Kent (and in London, I suppose) - in the same way District Councils can be within County Councils - but, having looked around this morning, I now suspect not . . . Are the locals wrong


----------



## cesare (Feb 10, 2010)

Part of Outer London. I always think of it as being in Kent though, in the same way that I think of Croydon being in Surrey.


----------



## strung out (Feb 10, 2010)

my friend used to live there on the same road as kate lawler. she said he had grubby knees once


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

She's only around the corner now. Seems a nice girl, led astray by the marching powder and shameful friends.

Beckenham is certainly in the twilight suburban zone but, administratively, I just dunno


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 10, 2010)

London and Kent, I'd say. In the same way that Croydon is London and Surrey and Watford is London and Hertfordshire... even though I'm not sure it's even in Hertfordshire.


----------



## strung out (Feb 10, 2010)

if you can get there on a travelcard, then it's in london


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 10, 2010)

strung_out said:


> if you can get there on a travelcard, then it's in london



Yeah, pretty much how I see it. Also, if the bus stops are TFL, then it's London.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 10, 2010)

there be dragons!!


----------



## marty21 (Feb 10, 2010)

I used to go drinking in Elmers End, a lot, I considered it London then, and I consider it London now

HTH


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 10, 2010)

it's some south london shithole.


----------



## Diamond (Feb 10, 2010)

It's real nowhere territory.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

I didn't know they loosened the straight jacket at lunchtimes, Pickman. Do you still type with your nose?


----------



## Maggot (Feb 10, 2010)

strung_out said:


> if you can get there on a travelcard, then it's in london





ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, pretty much how I see it. Also, if the bus stops are TFL, then it's London.


Yes, it's part of Greater London, in the London Borough of Bromley.

Some people still put Kent on the postal address, but that is an old fashioned thing.

Although Hayes, which is nearby, is often referred to as Hayes, Kent. This is to differentiate it from Hayes, Middlesex, although they are both actually in Greater London.


----------



## zenie (Feb 10, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> it's some south london shithole.


 
Worse, it's a North Kent shithole. 

*shudders*


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

Maggot - so it's def not in Kent? 

You think people put it on addresses, etc out of habit and that's  from before 1965 changes?


----------



## Cerberus (Feb 10, 2010)

Yeah. Travelcard, TFL bustops, London phone codes, London Borough of Bromley etc etc all qualify it for me as Sarf Landahn.

As with Croydon, Sutton, Enfield and other similar places I suppose its a state of mind thing for Beckenham-ites. Do you see yourself as part of Greater London or Bromley in Kent??

I live not too far away in SE26. I've always liked Beckenham


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

Certainly the people here - the Beckenham born people - absolutely believe they live in a small town with a High Street, all of which happens to be near London. Generally, they want to believe they live in 'Kent', encouraged I'd suggest by estate agents.

At least administratively speaking, that appears to be incorrect.


----------



## hipipol (Feb 10, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> She's only around the corner now. Seems a nice girl, led astray by the marching powder and shameful friends.



Seems she's also the victim of weird phobias

"Lawler's manager, Chris Barratt, dismissed the claims and said she would not have gone into the loo with a man - because she is afraid of flying.

He said: 'We find it highly amusing, especially the bit in the toilet because Kate is one of the most nervous flyers - she hardly gets out of her seat."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...wler-caught-aeroplane-toilet-male-friend.html

Reckon twas the marching powder called her to the bog


----------



## 19sixtysix (Feb 10, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> Maggot - so it's def not in Kent?
> 
> You think people put it on addresses, etc out of habit and that's  from before 1965 changes?



Its Kent in the same way the Oval is in Surrey.

Just cause local government bods fuck about with how peoples communities are administrated doesn't mean it has to be used or respected. Its the one thing that really pisses me off is the way local government is all about administrative convenience in this country. There is no element of respecting communities or democracy. I live in Southwark up here in Crystal Palace. When I phone the council the question I always get is "Are you in Southwark?". The council has no element of natural community about for me.


----------



## twister (Feb 10, 2010)

oi, Beckenham born-and-bred here, it aint a shithole, but you wouldn't go drinking there on a weekend if you could help it.

It's Kent and it's London. Had many a 'conversation' about this with people. It's zone 4/5 depending on where.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

No it's not though, as a Beckenham person, you think and want it to be in Kent as well as London. 

It's not in Kent - feel free to prove otherwise with a gov type link?


----------



## zenie (Feb 10, 2010)

19sixtysix said:


> Its Kent in the same way the Oval is in Surrey.


 
Bad example. 

It's Kent in the same way that Kingston is in Surrey would be better. 

Just because the administrative areas have changed, doesn't people's attitudes have.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 10, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> No it's not though, as a Beckenham person, you think and want it to be in Kent as well as London.
> 
> It's not in Kent - feel free to prove otherwise with a gov type link?



Govt link doesn't mean anything though, does it? If people from Beckenham identify it as being in Kent, then it's in Kent.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 10, 2010)

zenie said:


> Bad example.
> 
> It's Kent in the same way that Kingston is in Surrey would be better.
> 
> Just because the administrative areas have changed, doesn't people's attitudes have.



Kingston is a long way out of London. Beckenham isn't. You wouldn't call Penge Kent, would you?


----------



## zenie (Feb 10, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Kingston is a long way out of London. Beckenham isn't. You wouldn't call Penge Kent, would you?


 
Says who? Go look at a map.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 10, 2010)

zenie said:


> Says who? Go look at a map.



It's 16% further out of London than Beckenham.

Not as much as I thought though, TBF.


----------



## tbaldwin (Feb 10, 2010)

Its`METROPOLITAN KENT.
Eg Its part of Kent that is also part of London. Its got a BR postcode eg Bromley Kent London.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

We've just spent 30 posts debunking that myth; 'Metropolitan Kent' is meaningless, it has no basis in reality. Beckenham hasn't been in Kent since 1965.


----------



## zenie (Feb 10, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's 16% further out of London than Beckenham.
> 
> Not as much as I thought though, TBF.


 
yeh probably about a mile or something? 

Where are you basing London on? c'mon I know you get naturally over protective of the 'burbs. 

Beckenham's London, but it's suburban.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 10, 2010)

Why isn't this thread in Suburban?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 10, 2010)

.


----------



## Maggot (Feb 10, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Kingston is a long way out of London. Beckenham isn't. You wouldn't call Penge Kent, would you?


Penge has an SE postcode, so even though it's in the same borough as Beckenham, it's London status isn't disputed.


----------



## RubyToogood (Feb 10, 2010)

Does this mean that Bromley is also not in Kent? Because in my head it is, as is Beckenham.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

No, like Beckenham it's not - not since April 1st 1965:


> Boundary changes
> 
> The area of the borough was increased in 1934, when a county review order added parts of the abolished Bromley Rural District (Hayes and part of Keston).[7] The council was subsequently enlarged to seven aldermen and twenty-one councillors.
> 
> In 1965 the municipal borough was abolished by the London Government Act 1963 and *its former area transferred to Greater London from Kent*. Its former area was combined with that of other districts to form the present-day London Borough of Bromley.


Wiki


----------



## RubyToogood (Feb 10, 2010)

Well administratively that may be true, but psychologically London ends and Kent begins after Penge.


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 10, 2010)

Yep, somewhere around the line of the tram between Birbeck station and Beckenham Road station is my guess.

I suppose it's that both Beckenham and Bromley are clearly defined towns that's allowed the mindset to continue for 45 years after tha fact.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 10, 2010)

zenie said:


> yeh probably about a mile or something?
> 
> Where are you basing London on? c'mon I know you get naturally over protective of the 'burbs.
> 
> Beckenham's London, but it's suburban.



Very suburban. That's why I quite like it. Best of both worlds. Definitely too white though.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 12, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> London and Kent, I'd say. In the same way that Croydon is London and Surrey and Watford is London and Hertfordshire... even though I'm not sure it's even in Hertfordshire.


I wouldn't say Watford was in London.


strung_out said:


> if you can get there on a travelcard, then it's in london


You can get to Epping, Amersham and Chesham with a Travelcard these days and I don't think anyone would argue they are in London.

As far as I'm concerned London begins and ends at the Greater London boundary, which puts Beckenham firmly within London.  If your local council is a London borough then you're in London.


----------



## PacificOcean (Feb 12, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> As far as I'm concerned London begins and ends at the Greater London boundary, which puts Beckenham firmly within London.  If your local council is a London borough then you're in London.



This.

I live in Enfield Lock which is Zone 6, my post code starts EN and I have a funny telephone code - 01992.

Yet I am still in the London borough of Enfield.

(Though I am a two minute walk from being Essex).


----------



## tbaldwin (Feb 12, 2010)

PacificOcean said:


> This.
> 
> I live in Enfield Lock which is Zone 6, my post code starts EN and I have a funny telephone code - 01992.
> 
> ...



And living in MIDDLESEX.


----------



## PacificOcean (Feb 12, 2010)

tbaldwin said:


> And living in MIDDLESEX.



Which doesn't exist! 

There is no such county.


----------



## fogbat (Feb 12, 2010)

It's spelled _Peckham_


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 12, 2010)

fogbat said:


> It's spelled _Peckham_


What?


----------



## kenny g (Feb 13, 2010)

It is strange how the draw of teh old counties has continued 45 years later. I thought I was in London when I moved here a couple of years ago. Now I always call it Essex.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 13, 2010)

kenny g said:


> It is strange how the draw of teh old counties has continued 45 years later. I thought I was in London when I moved here a couple of years ago. Now I always call it Essex.



Where's "here"?


----------



## hipipol (Feb 14, 2010)

By look and feel Beckenham aint London
My old boss lived there and he always talked about "coming up to London" when he referred to getting to work

No one in Watford thinks they are part of London


Using the mad definitions created by some Whitehall geek cos it simplified his filing system does not make any sense


----------



## behemoth (Feb 15, 2010)

If it's inside the M25 it's part of that there Lon'on.


----------



## zenie (Feb 15, 2010)

behemoth said:


> If it's inside the M25 it's part of that there Lon'on.


 
Don't be silly.


----------



## stupid kid (Feb 15, 2010)

hipipol said:


> By look and feel Beckenham aint London




I don't know about that, it reminds me of Blackheath. Although maybe Blackheath just doesn't feel like London either.


----------



## porno thieving gypsy (Feb 15, 2010)

Penge used to be in Surrey


----------



## London_Calling (Feb 15, 2010)

Fantastic!


----------



## bromley (Feb 15, 2010)

It's in-between Penge and Bromley, that's all you need to know!


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 15, 2010)

porno thieving gypsy said:


> Penge used to be in Surrey



If you go back far enough so did Nunhead.  The border between the boroughs of Lewisham and Southwark is where the old Kent/Surrey border used to be.


----------



## PacificOcean (Feb 16, 2010)

porno thieving gypsy said:


> Penge used to be in Surrey



So did Clapham.


----------



## PacificOcean (Feb 16, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> If you go back far enough so did Nunhead.  The border between the boroughs of Lewisham and Southwark is where the old Kent/Surrey border used to be.



Clapham and as far as Kennington, even the Elephant, was deffo Surrey in the 19th Century. 

London was just Westminster and the Square Mile then.

In fact there is still a stone inscription in a building's wall in Moorgate announcing your entry into Middlesex.


----------



## zenie (Feb 16, 2010)

stupid kid said:


> I don't know about that, it reminds me of Blackheath. Although maybe Blackheath just doesn't feel like London either.


 
You wot mate? Tell that to the people of Blackheath, it's like comparing Dulwich to Croydon.


----------



## IanJ (Feb 17, 2010)

zenie said:


> You wot mate? Tell that to the people of Blackheath, it's like comparing Dulwich to Croydon.



must agree, Blackheath is not the first place that comes to mind whilst wandering about Beckenham.  I quite like Beckenham in a strange sort of way, but Blackheath it aint!


----------



## kenny g (Feb 18, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> Where's "here"?



The borders of Essex and London. Sorry, can't go in to any closer details


----------



## ska invita (Feb 12, 2016)

RubyToogood said:


> Well administratively that may be true, but psychologically London ends and Kent begins after Penge.


Its funny this, heading out from central london southwards I would agree, kent begins around penge, though beckenham you feel like youve arrived...
however now coming into town FROM beckenham, or even from other parts of north kent and on into beckenhamm, well
Sydenham feels like Kent
Forest Hill feels like Kent
Brockley feels like Kent
Deptford feels like Kent
Greenwich feels like Kent
EVerywhere east of Greenwich really feels like East Kent
Peckham feels like feels like Surrey/Kent border


----------



## ska invita (Feb 12, 2016)

kenny g said:


> It is strange how the draw of teh old counties has continued 45 years later. I thought I was in London when I moved here a couple of years ago. Now I always call it Essex.


Didnt think I would but since moving to Beckenham I immediately started writing Kent as the address, and if you stick your post code into one of those address finding form fillers it also pops up with Kent.


----------



## Maggot (Feb 12, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Didnt think I would but since moving to Beckenham I immediately started writing Kent as the address, and if you stick your post code into one of those address finding form fillers it also pops up with Kent.


I didn't know you'd moved. Welcome to the Bowie borough!


----------



## TruXta (Feb 12, 2016)

Oh god, has it happened already?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 12, 2016)

Maggot said:


> I didn't know you'd moved. Welcome to the Bowie borough!


Thought I told you, but yes! Im in! In Kent I think?




TruXta said:


> Oh god, has it happened already?


Yes/ Beckenham has_ happened_


----------



## TruXta (Feb 12, 2016)

There goes the neighbourhood.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 12, 2016)

TruXta said:


> There goes the neighbourhood.


I really hope so.....


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Feb 13, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Its funny this, heading out from central london southwards I would agree, kent begins around penge, though beckenham you feel like youve arrived...
> however now coming into town FROM beckenham, or even from other parts of north kent and on into beckenhamm, well
> Sydenham feels like Kent
> Forest Hill feels like Kent
> ...


I grew up in Kent - everywhere west of Gravesend along the northern corridor feels like London to me! Certainly once you get to the M25. 

I guess it's dependent on where you live how you see it.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 24, 2016)

A little revelation is that basically all of Bromley borough feels like Kent, so  when you cross the border, be it on Bromley ROad into Lewisham (DOwnham), or getting into Sydenham via Penge, that Kentish feeling fades a bit - which makes Beckenham as sort of final out post of NOrth West Kent


----------



## brogdale (Apr 2, 2022)

Had a very nice afternoon in Becks (largely charity shop oriented - they've got shit loads!) and schlepped up to the ever interesting  Bedlam museum/gallery for the Louis Wain exhibition which was a delight. Ends in about 10 days, so make plans if you're interested.

Obvs. there's loads of his cats...but some other stuff of his as well:



e2a; should have said...they do an excellent online version of the exhibition.


----------



## ska invita (Apr 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Had a very nice afternoon in Becks (largely charity shop oriented - they've got shit loads!) and schlepped up to the ever interesting  Bedlam museum/gallery for the Louis Wain exhibition which was a delight. Ends in about 10 days, so make plans if you're interested.
> 
> Obvs. there's loads of his cats...but some other stuff of his as well:
> 
> View attachment 316833


Tried to go to that exhibition but be beware its often closed (open Wed-Friday and one Sat a month IIRC)
Supposedly that hospital is where the word Bedlam comes from! I was amazed to hear that.
An interesting site anyway. I got some fun photos of some pottery works made by patients - will post at some point - cant right now


----------



## ska invita (Apr 2, 2022)

Could've sworn I took more pictures than this...


----------



## ouirdeaux (Apr 2, 2022)

There's a typo in the thread title. It should read, 'Why is Beckenham?'


----------



## ska invita (Apr 2, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> There's a typo in the thread title. It should read, 'Why is Beckenham?'


Becausenham


----------



## ska invita (Apr 2, 2022)

love this photo of an old landlord of The George Inn and friends
1800s, showing the licensee and customers showing off "the old jug,"


----------



## ska invita (Apr 2, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Could've sworn I took more pictures than this...
> 
> View attachment 316870View attachment 316869
> View attachment 316871



inter sting: 








						How Bedlam is being transformed through arts and walks
					

WANDLE WANDERINGS: Not for the first time, KEN TOWL’s gone off the beaten track. And with good reason Bedlam, said Colin Gale, has become a byword for chaos, a symbol of suffering and confusi…




					insidecroydon.com


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 2, 2022)

It still has more of a 1930s suburbia feel than many bits of outer london



















(the 1940s / 50s buses were part of an event at Bromley bus garage a few years ago)


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 2, 2022)

I almost moved there a few years ago, well to near Clock House national rail / Avenue Road tram stop. 


Puddy_Tat said:


> It still has more of a 1930s suburbia feel than many bits of outer london
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It feels like it needs a Piccadilly line station with architecture like that!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> It feels like it needs a Piccadilly line station with architecture like that!



we don't have that sort of thing in south east london, we prefer our electric trains above the ground...

beckenham does have trams as well


----------



## steveo87 (Apr 6, 2022)

For reasons I'm not entirely sure of, I have this thread on 'watch'. 

Anyway, when we lived in Kent we had family in Beckenham and that was always 'going to London'. Then again, I'm Northern, so basically anything East of Southampton and South of Norfolk is 'basically London'. _RUNS_


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> For reasons I'm not entirely sure of, I have this thread on 'watch'.
> 
> Anyway, when we lived in Kent we had family in Beckenham and that was always 'going to London'. Then again, I'm Northern, so basically anything East of Southampton and South of Norfolk is 'basically London'. _RUNS_


Been part of Greater London for 57 years, now.


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 6, 2022)

(Cue a load of posts saying Greater London isn’t London  )


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> (Cue a load of posts saying Greater London isn’t London  )


Yep, always a risk...but the clue about the functional and administrative nature of the conurbation is in the name. Greater London is far easier to define than "London".


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2022)

That said, for me as an inhabitant of the metropolis of Croydon, Becks is the end of the line (tram).


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 6, 2022)

I grew up in Sidcup and Orpington so have had this discussion my entire life


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 6, 2022)

beckenham is

in the metropolitan police area since the 1800s

in the london 020 telephone area

in the london borough of bromley / greater london council area since 1965 (at that time, this did not exactly match the met police patch, but the police boundaries were changed to match in 2000)

it is not

in the london postal area

in the 1890s london county council area which became the inner london education authority area

i'd have to go and look up what electric / gas board areas it was put in round the late 40s


----------



## surreybrowncap (Apr 6, 2022)

This season Surrey County Cricket Club are due to play Kent.....in Beckenham.
But then Surrey's ground is in London.....


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 6, 2022)

Beckenham is … like a sofa bed. Trying to be two things at the same time and not doing either successfully.


----------



## WouldBe (Apr 6, 2022)

Not near Victoria then?


----------



## philosophical (Apr 6, 2022)

My brother is in the Lewisham West constituency, but in the local elections he votes for members of Bromley Council (he lives hard by Crystal Palace Park).
As a child Beckenham was in Kent!
The SE London postcodes are almost perfectly alphabetical until you get past SE18, then the buggers go haywire when you introduce middle of nowhere places like Norbury😁


----------



## philosophical (Apr 6, 2022)

PS.
As a child (in the days when they still had motor racing in Crystal Palace Park, good bunking in stuff that) the borders of about four regions and areas was the roundabout at the end of Crystal Palace Parade, including Kent signposted if you headed off down the hill to Anerley.
I reckon Southwark and Lewisham met at that roundabout too, maybe Lambeth as well.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2022)

philosophical said:


> PS.
> As a child (in the days when they still had motor racing in Crystal Palace Park, good bunking in stuff that) the borders of about four regions and areas was the roundabout at the end of Crystal Palace Parade, including Kent signposted if you headed off down the hill to Anerley.
> I reckon Southwark and Lewisham met at that roundabout too, maybe Lambeth as well.


The park itself - though part of Bromley- borders five boroughs. 
Lambeth, Southwark, Croydon, Bromley and Lewisham.


----------



## pbsmooth (Apr 6, 2022)

this is one of those threads that shows how a place has changed over time - I think Beckenham is a lot posher now than it was 10 years ago! certainly more expensive. agree it's very suburban. feels like a small market town - complete with the lairy high street on weekends - but doesn't _feel_ like London. though I agree I would say it is in London.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 6, 2022)

philosophical said:


> My brother is in the Lewisham West constituency, but in the local elections he votes for members of Bromley Council



with a few minor exceptions, borough boundaries don't change much apart from big reorganisations (like 1965 in london) but they keep buggering about with parliamentary constituencies to try and even out the number of voters that each MP gets.  Which means many constituencies don't match local authority boundaries any more - in Reading, the Reading council area is too big for one MP, so the east / west constituencies include a chunk of Wokingham and West Berkshire boroughs.



philosophical said:


> The SE London postcodes are almost perfectly alphabetical until you get past SE18, then the buggers go haywire when you introduce middle of nowhere places like Norbury😁



All the London postcode districts are alphabetic after the 'head district'

The SE ones start again alphabetically after the SE19 Norwood 'not quite a head district'

SE20 - Anerley
SE21 - Dulwich
SE22 - East Dulwich
SE23 - Forest Hill
SE24 - Herne Hill
SE25 - South Norwood
SE26 - Sydenham
SE27 - West Norwood

I'm not sure anyone remembers why.  I had been told these were the parts of the old 'London, S' postal division, but not entirely sure about that.

Then SE28 (Thamesmead) got tacked on the end relatively recently as they would have run out of SE18 postcodes for it.  

Of the above, Anerley and South Norwood (the bits that are now in Croydon and Bromley boroughs) were mostly outside the London County Council area.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 6, 2022)

spanglechick said:


> The park itself - though part of Bromley- borders five boroughs.
> Lambeth, Southwark, Croydon, Bromley and Lewisham.


It's South London's very own Vaalserberg _Drielandenpunt_


----------



## ska invita (May 6, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> It still has more of a 1930s suburbia feel than many bits of outer london
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes some great civic buildings...this post office is brilliant ... recently sold off to a church by the council, post office is now in the Smiths. Massive queues of course - beckenham needed/needs a big post office.

likewise the library - also attempted to sell that off but it has survived after public outcry


----------



## Skim (Jun 22, 2022)

Before I moved to Forest Hill, I had never, despite 20 years of living in London, stepped foot in Kent. But then I wandered down to Beckenham and saw that ancient Deen’s Garage shopfront on the roundabout and knew then, unmistakably, that I had finally arrived in the Garden of England.


----------



## Skim (Jun 22, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Becausenham


My son used to call it Peckenham, which was cute.

I like Beckenham. It’s usually on my weekly running routes, and before I got back into running, I’d regularly cycle or walk around it. 

Kelsey Park is a hidden gem. Also love Beckenham Place Park, especially in recent years since they got rid of the golf course. Decent chazza shops. And a Wimpy!


----------



## Maggot (Nov 30, 2022)

If you're a bit Penge and a bit Beckenham.


----------



## Elpenor (Nov 30, 2022)

Maggot said:


> If you're a bit Penge and a bit Beckenham.
> View attachment 353557


For people who can’t decide between whether Beckenham or Penge Sainsburys is closer to them


----------



## brogdale (Nov 30, 2022)

Maggot said:


> If you're a bit Penge and a bit Beckenham.
> View attachment 353557


Or, local rivals Penge & Sydenham? Somewhere along the Newlands must be Pengenham or Synge😂


----------



## philosophical (Nov 30, 2022)

Wild borderland.
My brother lives in Crystal Palace Park road, Lewisham West constituency yet Bromley Council.
He has been unwell recently but instead of Lewisham Hospital, or Kings College it has been the abominable schlepp to Princess Royal beyond Bromley.
His wife is wheelchair bound and if Kings or Lewisham, visiting for her would’ve been easier.
However only five minutes from Penge West and also Penge East.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 30, 2022)

Maggot said:


> If you're a bit Penge and a bit Beckenham.
> View attachment 353557


This problem has been solved by Clock House


----------



## pbsmooth (Nov 30, 2022)

that's a train station, not a place ;-)


----------



## ska invita (Nov 30, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> that's a train station, not a place ;-)


----------



## pbsmooth (Nov 30, 2022)

I see they've marked the train station named after a house on that random map


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 30, 2022)

'kin 'ell! Ten years and you still haven't made your minds up.

It's in Kent. It has always been in Kent. (Maybe  ).


----------



## ska invita (Nov 30, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> I see they've marked the train station named after a house on that random map


What's your definition of a real place?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Nov 30, 2022)

ska invita said:


> What's your definition of a real place?



but council ward names aren't necessarily real places - 'Darwin' isn't a place - just that Charles Darwin lived at Down House

Lewisham used to have a Grinling Gibbons ward at one end of Deptford, but they seem to have done away with that.  There is an Evelyn Ward, although that is based on Evelyn Street


----------



## Elpenor (Nov 30, 2022)

ska invita said:


> What's your definition of a real place?


Copers Cope is a mindset not a place


----------



## ska invita (Nov 30, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Copers Cope is a mindset not a place


So true, a way of life


----------



## ska invita (Nov 30, 2022)

Are Crofton Park and Honor Oak "real places" ?


----------



## Elpenor (Nov 30, 2022)

Always got confused with Crofton Park as Crofton is also an area in Petts Wood.


----------



## pbsmooth (Nov 30, 2022)

ska invita said:


> What's your definition of a real place?


an area of land with a name. rather than a building or a house. Clapham Junction is not a place. Battersea is. but I am not deadly serious about all this - I just don't think Clock House is a place.


----------



## Skim (Nov 30, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Copers Cope is a mindset not a place


Haters gonna hate and copers gonna cope.


----------



## Skim (Nov 30, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Are Crofton Park and Honor Oak "real places" ?


Honor Oak is Forest Hill, right? SE23.

I would raise this on another thread, but “Penge and Sydenham Chitter Chatter” shuns Forest Hill


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 30, 2022)

Skim said:


> Honor Oak


Was this named by an American?


----------



## Elpenor (Nov 30, 2022)

Used to think this song was about Honor Oak


----------



## Skim (Nov 30, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Was this named by an American?


Apparently named after a tree, according to Wiki.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Nov 30, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Are Crofton Park and Honor Oak "real places" ?



I would say yes in both cases - both have railway stations (Honor Oak used to have Honor Oak as well as Honor Oak Park) and can be considered communities (although as with most localities / neighbourhoods / places in London, the boundaries between them are a bit fuzzy as you can't see the gaps in between.)



pbsmooth said:


> Clapham Junction is not a place.



Dunno.  Calvin Arding and Hobbs were describing their location as Clapham Junction 100+ years ago



Place names do change and can be influenced by their surroundings.  Elephant and Castle is an area rather than just a pub now.  Norwood Junction is not the same place as Norwood, and Loughborough Junction is an area now not just a railway station, and the station took its name from a stately pile nearby.  

New Cross (as an area) got its name from the 'New Cross Inn' which replaced an older 'Cross Inn' and so on.

Some place names disappear - where mum-tat lives was shown on maps as 'Burnt Ash' at one time, and the railway station was 'Lee for Burnt Ash' at one time, but it's now seen as part of Lee or Grove Park depending on who you ask and not many people would recognise Burnt Ash as an area.



Skim said:


> Honor Oak is Forest Hill, right? SE23.



in that general direction, but it's not the same thing as Forest Hill.  One postcode can contain quite a few distinct named neighbourhoods (or one neighbourhood can be spread across multiple postcodes)



Magnus McGinty said:


> Was this named by an American?



Hmm.

It's obviously been spelled that way for some time - spelling was a bit more flexible a few centuries ago (for that matter, -ize spellings only became 'wrong' in the UK within the last 20-30 years or so.)


----------



## ska invita (Nov 30, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I would say yes in both cases - both have railway stations (Honor Oak used to have Honor Oak as well as Honor Oak Park) and can be considered communities (although as with most localities / neighbourhoods / places in London, the boundaries between them are a bit fuzzy as you can't see the gaps in between.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think historically honor oak and crofton park were Brockley, but nowadays they are definitely considered separate areas by everyone... And that's the key thing isn't it, names used by people to describe land areas.  Train station names have effectively created new area names, but I don't see the point of resisting a name that's already got a hundred years clocked up


----------



## pbsmooth (Nov 30, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I would say yes in both cases - both have railway stations (Honor Oak used to have Honor Oak as well as Honor Oak Park) and can be considered communities (although as with most localities / neighbourhoods / places in London, the boundaries between them are a bit fuzzy as you can't see the gaps in between.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting related article about how map apps are changing area names 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Nov 30, 2022)

ska invita said:


> resisting a name that's already got a hundred years *clocked up*



i see what you did there...


----------



## Elpenor (Nov 30, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> Interesting related article about how map apps are changing area names
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/02/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare





			archive.ph


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 30, 2022)

It’s not in London, like Bromley or Croydon.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 1, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> It’s not in London, like Bromley or Croydon.


Both Bromley and Beckenham have BR postcodes. Not SW etc.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 1, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> It’s not in London, like Bromley or Croydon.











						Where is Beckenham?
					

Didnt think I would but since moving to Beckenham I immediately started writing Kent as the address, and if you stick your post code into one of those address finding form fillers it also pops up with Kent. I didn't know you'd moved. Welcome to the Bowie borough!




					www.urban75.net


----------



## pbsmooth (Dec 1, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Both Bromley and Beckenham have BR postcodes. Not SW etc.


Parts of Bromley and Croydon boroughs have London postcodes...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 1, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> Parts of Bromley and Croydon boroughs have London postcodes...



Parts of Bromley and Croydon boroughs have non London phone numbers, though...


----------



## pbsmooth (Dec 1, 2022)

What decade are you arguing from?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 1, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> What decade are you arguing from?



or even what century?

london (other than the city of) didn't exist as an administrative entity until 1889 (and some people didn't adjust to that - sherlock holmes referred to 'the surrey shore' rather than 'south london' until he retired from practice in c. 1904)

the greater london county (which included bromley and croydon) didn't exist until 1965


----------



## pbsmooth (Dec 1, 2022)

Love a bit of history👍


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 1, 2022)

london dialling code area (in red), Greater London Council / Authority area boundary in black







london postal district (red), GLA boundary in black


----------



## hash tag (Dec 2, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> an area of land with a name. rather than a building or a house. Clapham Junction is not a place. Battersea is. but I am not deadly serious about all this - I just don't think Clock House is a place.


Should Clapham junction be renamed Battersea Junction? 
Many of us still refer to the immediate area as Clapham Junction as opposed to Clapham South or Clapham High St.


----------



## pbsmooth (Dec 2, 2022)

No, I think that would be a waste of time and money.


----------



## philosophical (Dec 2, 2022)

I was told that back in the day when arriving and alighting at my local station the announcement would be ‘Lee for Burnt Ash’, and long term probably second or third generations people still refer to one local district as ‘Burnt Ash’.


----------

