# Is the High Street doomed



## hash tag (May 22, 2018)

HMV's, Waterstones, Oddbins, second hand bookshops, House of Fraser, Sainsburys & Asda, Debenhams, Maplins, Homebase and now I see M&S are scaling back....M&S to close 100 stores by 2022

Can the high street be saved, is it beyond redemption? Should they be given up and turned over to housing, if not, what?


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## Wolveryeti (May 22, 2018)

Sweatshops so we can make stuff for the Chinese.


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## ska invita (May 22, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Should they be given up and turned over to housing, if not, what?


Amazon collection centers/cashless food warehouses


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## cupid_stunt (May 22, 2018)

Err, Sainsburys & Asda don't tend to be on the high street, and are not going anywhere, just planning to combine in order to grow. 

But, yeah, internet shopping is having a major impact on traditional retailers, especially in respect of  music, books & electronic stuff, not sure how that can be changed.


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## SpookyFrank (May 22, 2018)

All these retailers get replaced by others though. As long as there are people tragic and/or stupid enough to consider shopping a recreational activity the high street will be just fine.


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## cupid_stunt (May 22, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> All these retailers get replaced by others though. As long as there are people tragic and/or stupid enough to consider shopping a recreational activity the high street will be just fine.



If that was true, there wouldn't be an ever increasing number of empty shop units in towns across the country.


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## Badgers (May 22, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> But, yeah, internet shopping is having a major impact on traditional retailers, especially in respect of  music, books & electronic stuff, not sure how that can be changed.


Like Tesco Direct?


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## cupid_stunt (May 22, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Like Tesco Direct?



Err?


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## Spymaster (May 22, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> All these retailers get replaced by others though.


They don't though. More often than not you'll find them replaced with a charity shop of some description or a mobile phone store. Occasionally it'll be a cafe or coffee shop that lasts for about 10 minutes but there's no doubt that independent retailers are a dying breed.


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## cupid_stunt (May 22, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> They don't though. More often than not you'll find them replaced with a charity shop of some description or a mobile phone store. Occasionally it'll be a cafe or coffee shop that lasts for about 10 minutes but there's no doubt that independent retailers are a dying breed.



Or, Betting Shops, but they are fucked with the new rules over fixed odds betting terminals.


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## Badgers (May 22, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Err?


Tesco shuts its online non-food website, Tesco Direct

This implies things are not rosy for online business as well


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## DotCommunist (May 22, 2018)

hairdressers/keycutter and shoe repair. laundrette. Tatooist/piercing. That wiccan shop with the crystals. Music (instruments) shop. Anything else that can't or won't be amazoned in this glorious future?


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## Badgers (May 22, 2018)

In terms of cafes and restaurants I do think that the independent places are not done for. No way I would open a coffee shop up against the corporates but small (well run) eateries seem to be doing okay.

Keep looking in places like Pizza Express, Zizzi and similar bland chains. All of who have massive premises and overheads but seem to be empty 75% of the time.


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## editor (May 22, 2018)

When 3D printing goes mainstream we'l lose another raft of shops.


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## pesh (May 22, 2018)

really? which ones?


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## TruXta (May 22, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> hairdressers/keycutter and shoe repair. laundrette. Tatooist/piercing. That wiccan shop with the crystals. Music (instruments) shop. Anything else that can't or won't be amazoned in this glorious future?


Soup kitchens


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## danny la rouge (May 22, 2018)

pesh said:


> really? which ones?


3D printer shops. Because we'll just print new 3D printers rather than buy them.


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## cupid_stunt (May 22, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Tesco shuts its online non-food website, Tesco Direct
> 
> This implies things are not rosy for online business as well



No, that just proves that Tesco couldn't take on the likes of Amazon, Argos (now in the hands of Sainsbury's), AOL (Appliances Online), etc.


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## TruXta (May 22, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> 3D printer shops. Because we'll just print new 3D printers rather than buy them.


I'm gonna print me a tank and some ground to air missiles come the 3D printing revolution.


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## danny la rouge (May 22, 2018)

TruXta said:


> I'm gonna print me a tank and some ground to air missiles come the 3D printing revolution.


You'll be able to get them through airport security too.


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## danny la rouge (May 22, 2018)

Sorry, serious thread. I'll behave.


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## TruXta (May 22, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> You'll be able to get them through airport security too.


I'll print my own damn airport security


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## a_chap (May 22, 2018)

Shoe shops, obvs.


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## hash tag (May 22, 2018)

There are a fair amount of mini supermarketsts like sainsburys on the high street round here and, they in part, have received some of the blame for other shops being forced out because they can't compete.


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## DotCommunist (May 22, 2018)

pesh said:


> really? which ones?


Games robber-baron Workshop


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## Smangus (May 22, 2018)

Only fried chicken emporiums and Paddy power in 10 years...


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## Badgers (May 22, 2018)

I still miss having a Spudulike on every respectable high street


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## hash tag (May 22, 2018)

Smangus said:


> Only fried chicken emporiums and Paddy power in 10 years...



Betting is already big on line and I don't think there is much in the way of cooked food I can't get delivered.


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## cupid_stunt (May 22, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Tesco shuts its online non-food website, Tesco Direct
> 
> This implies things are not rosy for online business as well



Thinking about this, Tesco are actually hopeless in promoting the other sides of their businesses, when they could do that on every till receipt issued, in respect of Tesco Direct that could have included a discount code.

I've never seen Tesco Direct nor Tesco Bank promoted on any till receipt I've had, very odd. 

And, the Tesco Bank current account offer is bloody good - 3% interest on balances of up to £3k, plus Tesco points every time you use your debt card, that's worth between £150 & £200 tax-free a year to me, yet they don't seem proactive in promoting it. 

I've not found another bank offering that sort of deal.


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## MickiQ (May 22, 2018)

I think a few High Streets will survive those in towns that have other significant attractions (not to mention a 'with-it' vibe) where going can be a day out, places like Chester and Stratford-on-Avon are a couple I know of personally. Big cities like Birmingham and Manchester where just going to shop there can become a day out and people will spend more, the places that are going to get hammered are those that meet neither of those like my native Crewe or Burton-on-Trent just down the road from here.
I think their High Sts are going to struggle and retail is increasingly going to become online, superstores/shopping parks or little local centres with a mini-supermarket, a chemist, a hairdresser and a chippie.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 22, 2018)

Yet again the main problem is...Landlords.

Rents for shops are rising, even though footfall is dropping like a stone. Many shop landlords are entities like pension funds, the actual rent isn’t the main thing for them, it is the asset, yet they seem blind to the fact that the high rents that rise relentlessly will one day not too far away make the asset worthless.

Local toy shop closed last year, his rent had been increased from 18 to 32k. The shop is still empty and I can’t see it being re-let any time soon, if ever (odd shaped premises). How can a small toy shop make enough money to pay £32k? Just to the landlord, before wages and everything else. It’s untenable


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## SpookyFrank (May 22, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> If that was true, there wouldn't be an ever increasing number of empty shop units in towns across the country.



An absolute number or relative number?


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## cupid_stunt (May 22, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> An absolute number or relative number?



Both.


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## hash tag (May 22, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yet again the main problem is...Landlords.
> 
> Rents for shops are rising, even though footfall is dropping like a stone. Many shop landlords are entities like pension funds, the actual rent isn’t the main thing for them, it is the asset, yet they seem blind to the fact that the high rents that rise relentlessly will one day not too far away make the asset worthless.
> 
> ...


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## hash tag (May 22, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yet again the main problem is...Landlords.
> 
> Rents for shops are rising, even though footfall is dropping like a stone. Many shop landlords are entities like pension funds, the actual rent isn’t the main thing for them, it is the asset, yet they seem blind to the fact that the high rents that rise relentlessly will one day not too far away make the asset worthless.
> 
> Local toy shop closed last year, his rent had been increased from 18 to 32k. The shop is still empty and I can’t see it being re-let any time soon, if ever (odd shaped premises). How can a small toy shop make enough money to pay £32k? Just to the landlord, before wages and everything else. It’s untenable





I suspect the rents are a contributary factor but not necessarily the main one. On a totally different scale, Will be interesting to see how debs and house of Fraser get on as both have been renegotiating their leases.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 22, 2018)

Sort your quoting out hash tag, Fraser, Debs, M&S etc. are all suffering in the same way, they don’t own the freeholds, they are feeling it in exactly the same way as my toy shop did.


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## Dogsauce (May 22, 2018)

The bit of Leeds I lived in now has less empty shops than it did ten years ago, and lost a couple of charity shops too. The big takeover has been by Polish and other continental food shops. The local racists grumble about it on Facebook as though these new businesses are the reason why Woolworths closed down their shop thirty years ago. It’s not displacement, it’s the filling of empty spaces.


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## Dogsauce (May 22, 2018)

I’ve noted the decline of payday lender shops too, no bad thing really although I used to like the occasional bargain I’d find in Cash Converters.


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## Nine Bob Note (May 22, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> 3D printer shops. Because we'll just print new 3D printers rather than buy them.



And THAT is the moment Skynet becomes a possibility


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## TruXta (May 22, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> And THAT is the moment Skynet becomes a possibility


Skynet as an infinite regress of 3D printers forever printing itself?


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## 8ball (May 23, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Sorry, serious thread. I'll behave.



No, don't.


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## Sasaferrato (May 23, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Or, Betting Shops, but they are fucked with the new rules over fixed odds betting terminals.



What maximum stake did they settle on?


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## Raheem (May 23, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> What maximum stake did they settle on?



It's the minimum that counts. The stake needs to be just long enough so that when they settle on it it pierces a lung.


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## 8ball (May 23, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> What maximum stake did they settle on?



Cut to two quid - the best that could have been hoped for.
Still potentially destructive to those on benefits or low incomes, but the business plan lies in tatters.

Good riddance.


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## Sasaferrato (May 23, 2018)

8ball said:


> Cut to two quid - the best that could have been hoped for.
> Still potentially destructive to those on benefits or low incomes, but the business plan lies in tatters.
> 
> Good riddance.



That is marvelous! 

Those fucking things were dreadful. I don't deny anyone their right to piss their money away, I don't think you should actively help them to do so though.


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## 8ball (May 23, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> That is marvelous!
> 
> Those fucking things were dreadful. I don't deny anyone their right to piss their money away, I don't think you should actively help them to do so though.



Well, whenever someone is determined to piss their money away there'll always be a long queue of those willing to play the urinal.

Those machines were designed to exploit the weaknesses of human psychology and take money from the most vulnerable.  They also caused social damage which we all have to pay for.  I'm sure the gambling industry have another kind of dopamine hit in development, but for now it feels nice to have them on the back foot, at least a little.


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## Sasaferrato (May 23, 2018)

8ball said:


> Well, whenever someone is determined to piss their money away there'll always be a long queue of those willing to play the urinal.
> 
> Those machines were designed to exploit the weaknesses of human psychology and take money from the most vulnerable.  They also caused social damage which we all have to pay for.  I'm sure the gambling industry have another kind of dopamine hit in development, but for now it feels nice to have them on the back foot, at least a little.



Yes, no doubt they will, but it will take a while, hopefully. A more agile law is needed, to be able to block things for further consideration.


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## Fez909 (May 23, 2018)

Independent retailers are increasing in absolute numbers. It's the chain shops that are closing.

The high street is improving.


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## bimble (May 23, 2018)

Fez909 said:


> Independent retailers are increasing in absolute numbers. It's the chain shops that are closing.
> 
> The high street is improving.


 
Depends where you live maybe? Camberwell for instance there are just more and more closed empty shops, some have been like that for years now. The only independent things that seems to survive in that environment are hairdressers & nail bars.


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## moochedit (May 23, 2018)

bimble said:


> Depends where you live maybe? Camberwell for instance there are just more and more closed empty shops, some have been like that for years now. The only independent things that seems to survive in that environment are hairdressers & nail bars.



Yeah i think some towns are worse than others. This link (2 years old) says worst (at the time) had about 30% unused.

These towns have more than a quarter of shops standing empty


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## bimble (May 23, 2018)

Yep it’ll be fine in places like I dunno Guildford for instance, where there’s endless independent boutiques and gift shops for people with spare time and money to go browsing, whilst other places the only things that work seem to be basically food & services (hair, mobile phone unlocking etc).


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## moochedit (May 23, 2018)

Found this for my own town. 56 shops currently closed. Not sure what percentage that is. Actually that is slightly better than a few years ago.

Coventry City Centre empty shops | Coventry City Council


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 23, 2018)

bimble said:


> Yep it’ll be fine in places like I dunno Guildford for instance, where there’s endless independent boutiques and gift shops for people with spare time and money to go browsing, whilst other places the only things that work seem to be basically food & services (hair, mobile phone unlocking etc).



Guildford’s in trouble too. Mooch around town on a Saturday and there seem to be about half the number of people around than there were just a couple of years ago. But it will probably do better than most places cos of the things you describe.

My local high street almost all independents that rented the shops have now closed except for nail bars, barbers and hairdressers. We try to buy on the high street but when they don’t have your size and so on it is so much easier to buy from Amazon for less money. I can see a time not far away when Godalming is just a service town; bars, restaurants, barbers and so on. To quote The Donald, Sad.


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## hash tag (May 23, 2018)

bimble said:


> Depends where you live maybe? Camberwell for instance there are just more and more closed empty shops, some have been like that for years now. The only independent things that seems to survive in that environment are hairdressers & nail bars.



Like Northcote Road in Clapham, last time I looked, I thought Lordship Lane was doing ok; numerous coffee shops, small independents Etc. Though I guess Camberell Green area may not be so good.


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## bimble (May 23, 2018)

Been noticing recently an increase (I think) of different small businesses sharing the same retail space, so like a normal sized high street shop with fruit & veg on one side and electronic stuff on the other, two tills. That might be an innovation you see more, people subdividing /sharing the rent.


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## SpookyFrank (May 23, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yet again the main problem is...Landlords.
> 
> Rents for shops are rising, even though footfall is dropping like a stone. Many shop landlords are entities like pension funds, the actual rent isn’t the main thing for them, it is the asset, yet they seem blind to the fact that the high rents that rise relentlessly will one day not too far away make the asset worthless.
> 
> Local toy shop closed last year, his rent had been increased from 18 to 32k. The shop is still empty and I can’t see it being re-let any time soon, if ever (odd shaped premises). How can a small toy shop make enough money to pay £32k? Just to the landlord, before wages and everything else. It’s untenable



So retail, a sector where the whole game is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with, is mad because the property sector is playing the exact same game?

Sorry retail, I guess capitalism is just a bitch. Who knew?


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## Badgers (May 23, 2018)

Just strolled home from town. There is a (fairly upmarket) furniture store that has a liquidation clearance sale Friday. I never went in as never in my budget but apparently it had been trading there for 30+ years.


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## Pickman's model (May 23, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Just strolled home from town. There is a (fairly upmarket) furniture store that has a liquidation clearance sale Friday. I never went in as never in my budget but apparently it had been trading there for 30+ years.


you'll be going on friday then


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## Badgers (May 23, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> you'll be going on friday then


No


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## Pickman's model (May 23, 2018)

Badgers said:


> No


maybe smash your way in on saturday for cheaper furniture


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 23, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> So retail, a sector where the whole game is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with, is mad because the property sector is playing the exact same game?
> 
> Sorry retail, I guess capitalism is just a bitch. Who knew?



Yeah capitalism is shite, but it's what we have. At least high streets offer work and a place for drunks to sit and shout at passers-by.


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## krink (May 23, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> drunks to sit and shout at passers-by.



We prefer the term "alcohol-assisted social commentators" thanks.


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## skyscraper101 (May 25, 2018)

Updating as per...

DIY disaster ends as Homebase sold for £1

Thread here


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## UrbaneFox (May 25, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Updating as per...
> 
> DIY disaster ends as Homebase sold for £1
> 
> Thread here


Might we see the return of ironmongers and paint shops?


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## fucthest8 (May 25, 2018)

editor said:


> When 3D printing goes mainstream we'l lose another raft of shops.



Never mind that, James Burke reckons nanotechnology will be the proper nail in the coffin. For EVERYTHING.

BBC Radio 4 - James Burke on the End of Scarcity


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## Dogsauce (May 26, 2018)

UrbaneFox said:


> Might we see the return of ironmongers and paint shops?



Homebase isn’t exactly high street, and one of the reasons for the demise of traditional high street shops.

20 or so years back I used to work during student holidays for a paint company that exclusively supplied independent DIY shops, mostly with specialist paints. The firm wouldn’t sell to the big sheds because the sheds would tell you what to make and how much they would pay for it (usually tight margins), an unbalanced situation of massive corporations vs a family-owned firm with sixty or seventy staff.

I’d quite often hitch a lift back up to university on one of the delivery trucks helping with the drops on the way up to Leeds. I can remember the numerous shops scattered around the midlands and north, YDM, Neville’s etc., all now gone, driven to the ground by Homebase, B&Q and their loss-leading selling (anyone in the decorating game will know these places are only cheap on headline items like white emulsion, loads of stuff is much more pricey than the independents were). The company itself went under about 15 years ago although a bigger brand bought the name. 

One thing that’s surprised me since moving to London is that a lot of the independent type hardware stores still survive, which is likely due to population density (in a lot of other towns there are no homes on or near the high street) and the difficulty in travelling to out-of-town retail parks, especially with lower car ownership. Maybe it’s these sort of changes that can save the high street.


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## Poi E (May 26, 2018)

The small hardware stores are generally selling the same Chinese made bits and pieces as the larger chains. 

As for paints, it's amazing how shit a lot of paint in the UK is, especially considering it's a relatively mild maritime climate without huge amounts of UV or variations in humidity. Johnson's are about the best.


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## newbie (May 26, 2018)

istm that most people in the country are lamenting that _fings ain't what they used to be_ while at the same time not buying much stuff anymore, and using white van delivery for what they do buy.  Services and experiences are the focus now that we've passed peak stuff. Bricks n mortar shops selling non-perishables are declining into a few fairly tightly defined types selling stuff that people want to fondle before purchase- shoes and clothes for instance or perhaps jewelry- or that they need right now, so eg Screwfix type places.

Some services are increasingly going online too, banks and estate agents for instance.  All of which ought to lead to a collapse in rents and provide scope for some imaginative new service/experience ideas, as eg nail bars or pottery painting have done in the last few years.


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## SpookyFrank (May 27, 2018)

Homebase is crap IME. Lots of basic stuff they don't have eg plumbing spares, shelf space taken up with nick nacks and ornaments instead.


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## Plumdaff (May 27, 2018)

Not that underlying structural problems aren't present, but Homebase was the victim of a takeover by an Australian company Bunnings that completely misunderstood the UK market and fired all the British management who did.


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## RubyToogood (May 27, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Like Northcote Road in Clapham, last time I looked, I thought Lordship Lane was doing ok; numerous coffee shops, small independents Etc. Though I guess Camberell Green area may not be so good.



Lordship Lane has a lot of things like gift shops, clothes shops and posh cheese shops which aren't about competing on price. The kind of thing where people feel it must be better if they're paying a bit more - the local demographic can support that. It also has a ton of coffee shops and restaurants... I guess it's as much about being a social hub as anything. This is very true of where I live. We don't have a lot of useful shops but we have zillions of cafes, pubs and restaurants and more opening all the time.



SpookyFrank said:


> So retail, a sector where the whole game is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with, is mad because the property sector is playing the exact same game?


In what sector is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with NOT the game? 



Dogsauce said:


> One thing that’s surprised me since moving to London is that a lot of the independent type hardware stores still survive, which is likely due to population density (in a lot of other towns there are no homes on or near the high street) and the difficulty in travelling to out-of-town retail parks, especially with lower car ownership. Maybe it’s these sort of changes that can save the high street.


There are a couple near me. The alternative is going to Homebase/Bunnings/Homebase in Penge and as I don't have a car I'd rather not. I only ever go there if I'm doing a major project and then I have to do several trips because I can't carry 10 litres of paint and three curtain rails on the bus in one go.


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## JuanTwoThree (May 27, 2018)

fucthest8 said:


> Never mind that, James Burke reckons nanotechnology will be the proper nail in the coffin. For EVERYTHING.
> 
> BBC Radio 4 - James Burke on the End of Scarcity



James Burke, or somebody very like him,  promised me a flying car and a robot butler so it pays not to believe everything that is predicted.

Like others, I can see agreeable shopping areas with affluent leisure shoppers surviving, but noisy strips of shops on either side of busy roads look increasingly threatened. Which is tough on the less affluent who live near them, can't get to the nice bits, can't afford the prices there anyway, need smaller quantities than are sold online and so on.

Optimistically I can see rents dropping through market forces, young entrepreneurs appearing and cooperative efforts springing up to supply people who can't get to Guildford or Northcote Road. Pessimistically I can see food banks.


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## lizzieloo (May 27, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Like Tesco Direct?



Tesco are getting rid of Tesco direct, they'll just be doing online groceries.

It'll be a blow here cos the (massive) distribution warehouse is here.


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## lizzieloo (May 27, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Tesco shuts its online non-food website, Tesco Direct
> 
> This implies things are not rosy for online business as well



*reads thread*


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## SpookyFrank (May 27, 2018)

RubyToogood said:


> In what sector is charging the biggest mark-up you can get away with NOT the game?



This was my point. If you're gonna do capitalism you can't then throw your toys out the pram when others do likewise.


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## Magnus McGinty (May 27, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> All these retailers get replaced by others though. As long as there are people tragic and/or stupid enough to consider shopping a recreational activity the high street will be just fine.



No need to sneer. It can be helpful to be able to try clothes on or see if electrical goods suit your needs etc.


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## hash tag (May 27, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> James Burke, or somebody very like him,  promised me a flying car and a robot butler so it pays not to believe everything that is predicted.
> 
> Like others, I can see agreeable shopping areas with affluent leisure shoppers surviving, but noisy strips of shops on either side of busy roads look increasingly threatened. Which is tough on the less affluent who live near them, can't get to the nice bits, can't afford the prices there anyway, need smaller quantities than are sold online and so on.
> 
> Optimistically I can see rents dropping through market forces, young entrepreneurs appearing and cooperative efforts springing up to supply people who can't get to Guildford or Northcote Road. Pessimistically I can see food banks.



Flying cars/taxis may still happen thanks to uber and drones. 
As for affluent areas keeping going, I am not convinced that's the case, I just think they will be the last to hang on.


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## tim (May 27, 2018)

Smangus said:


> Only fried chicken emporiums and Paddy power in 10 years...


I wouldn't count on that combination surviving. 

We'll all be fruitarians in a decade and the nanny state will have introduced a 50p maximum stake on all bets


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## Poi E (May 27, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Homebase is crap IME. Lots of basic stuff they don't have eg plumbing spares, shelf space taken up with nick nacks and ornaments instead.



Hardware stores in the UK are shit.


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## Dieselpunk2000 (May 27, 2018)

In my neck of the woods-
Hereford has biggest increase in shop closures in region | Hereford Times


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## Cloo (May 27, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yet again the main problem is...Landlords.


Don't forget business rates as well, they've been a total fucker for retailers of all sizes.

It doesn't help with local small high streets that they don't seem to be designed around modern living. I often think non-essential shops (ie gifts, books, clothes) in local parades would do better to open midday-8pm  (which seems to be a thing in the US) rather than 9-5 during the week, and open on Sundays (maybe shutting one weekday instead) because then they could actually catch people on their way home from work/on the weekend and people might actually use them, rather than using Amazon Prime when they want something in a hurry.  Honestly, if I had a local shop where I knew I could pick up kids clothes or shoes on a weeknight, I'd have got a lot of use out of it.

But one way or another, a lot of small local shops will have to go, probably to be replaced by housing - we just don't need as much small and local as we once did, but if those that remained actually ran in a way that fits with lifestyles that would help.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 27, 2018)

Cloo said:
			
		

> Honestly, if I had a local shop where I knew I could pick up kids clothes or shoes on a weeknight, I'd have got a lot of use out of it.



I do have one, Sainsburys, which does help matters.

Business rates are another world of shit, yet councils are desperate for cash so won’t be doing anything soon to sort that out. Tory scum.


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## hash tag (May 27, 2018)

Speaking of Sunday opening, I was is Westfield Shephers Bush today. I saw an Entertainer in there, which despite, I guess enormous pressure from the centre, remained firmly closed.
Good for them, I was there was more like them.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 27, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Speaking of Sunday opening, I was is Westfield Shephers Bush today. I saw an Entertainer in there, which despite, I guess enormous pressure from the centre, remained firmly closed.
> Good for them, I was there was more like them.



Fundie Christian owner.


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## PursuedByBears (May 27, 2018)

Yes, religious wackjobs. I refuse to buy anything in their shops.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2018)

Landlords to fight use of CVAs by retailers seeking rent cuts


> “The more it happens, the more other retailers think they should do it and dump 20% of property liabilities for little cost. It’s an opportunistic bandwagon.”



says colliers retail bod with a straight face. lol.


----------



## MickiQ (May 28, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Landlords to fight use of CVAs by retailers seeking rent cuts
> 
> 
> says colliers retail bod with a straight face. lol.


fetch me my violin


----------



## ska invita (May 28, 2018)

GDP growth for q1 in 2018 is 0.1%. that's right on the verge of recession. Its likely Brexit day next year will tip the UK into recession, if not sooner. At least house and rent prices should come down though


----------



## hash tag (May 28, 2018)

I think house prices have already come down in town. At best, they have already stabilised.


----------



## xenon (May 28, 2018)

Cloo said:


> Don't forget business rates as well, they've been a total fucker for retailers of all sizes.
> 
> It doesn't help with local small high streets that they don't seem to be designed around modern living. I often think non-essential shops (ie gifts, books, clothes) in local parades would do better to open midday-8pm  (which seems to be a thing in the US) rather than 9-5 during the week, and open on Sundays (maybe shutting one weekday instead) because then they could actually catch people on their way home from work/on the weekend and people might actually use them, rather than using Amazon Prime when they want something in a hurry.  Honestly, if I had a local shop where I knew I could pick up kids clothes or shoes on a weeknight, I'd have got a lot of use out of it.
> 
> But one way or another, a lot of small local shops will have to go, probably to be replaced by housing - we just don't need as much small and local as we once did, but if those that remained actually ran in a way that fits with lifestyles that would help.



Why don't more shops open 12 - 8 instead of 9 - 5.


----------



## Badgers (May 28, 2018)

Hardly a shock this...

WH Smith voted worst High Street shop


----------



## moochedit (May 28, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Hardly a shock this...
> 
> WH Smith voted worst High Street shop



Not been in one for years. I'm surprised they are still going.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 28, 2018)

moochedit said:


> Not been in one for years. I'm surprised they are still going.



On top of them being a mess it’s the brass neck they have when it comes to pricing shit. Only noticed about 10 years ago when buying 20 Bennies at Heathrow and they came in over a tenner, thought was just Heathrow, then bought some snouts at the one on the high street and the same pisstake price. Then noticed they charge way over the odds for everything, and have never been in a high street one since. Am occasionally forced in  to a train station one though.


----------



## Badgers (May 28, 2018)

moochedit said:


> Not been in one for years. I'm surprised they are still going.


30 years ago it was the place to go for school supplies and such. Now it is just an overpriced cesspool of crap. Only reason I go in there is for Viz.

They do (must?) own a lot of prime commercial property which I expect keeps them trading


----------



## PursuedByBears (May 28, 2018)

They have a decent comic book selection for the high street but a shit shop overall.


----------



## phillm (May 28, 2018)

This week went to a 24 hour automated unmanned filling station in Chatham and saw a computer key cutter in B&Q which promises 99.7% accuracy and a robot lawn mower working the gardens in Edinburgh. This is the rise of the robots - starting to think the doom mongers Hawkins/Musk et al are probably on point. If you see an Alexa kill the fucker - this is how it starts.


----------



## MickiQ (May 28, 2018)

phillm said:


> This week went to a 24 hour automated unmanned filling station in Chatham and saw a computer key cutter in B&Q which promises 99.7% accuracy and a robot lawn mower working the gardens in Edinburgh. This is the rise of the robots - starting to think the doom mongers Hawkins/Musk et al are probably on point. If you see an Alexa kill the fucker - this is how it starts.


Were they looking for Sarah Connor?


----------



## phillm (May 28, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> Were they looking for Sarah Connor?



just day old infants at the moment waking blinded into a human shaped world - they will grow up and learn quickly...helped by humans  - we are at ground zero of a tech-ebola virus.


----------



## sealion (May 28, 2018)

Badgers said:


> They do (must?) own a lot of prime commercial property which I expect keeps them trading


They have a lot of stores in mainline stations, hospitals, shopping centers, etc, mainly franchiesd out.


----------



## BristolEcho (May 28, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I think house prices have already come down in town. At best, they have already stabilised.



We've noticed this when looking at other places recently. We got our place two years ago, but I don't see how he could charge any more now even if he wanted to. That's probably why he's not tried to raised our rent to be fair.  Two years ago it felt like he could have pushed it by another £200.


----------



## Cloo (May 28, 2018)

xenon said:


> Why don't more shops open 12 - 8 instead of 9 - 5.


Awkward working hours I suppose? But then plenty of supermarkets open longer. I do honestly think it would help local shops as at the moment a lot of them are only accessible on Saturdays to people working standard hours. As has been said, though, a lot of them will have a nearby supermarket as competition, which is also a problem.


----------



## Dr. Furface (May 28, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> On top of them being a mess it’s the brass neck they have when it comes to pricing shit. Only noticed about 10 years ago when buying 20 Bennies at Heathrow and they came in over a tenner, thought was just Heathrow, then bought some snouts at the one on the high street and the same pisstake price. Then noticed they charge way over the odds for everything, and have never been in a high street one since. Am occasionally forced in  to a train station one though.


Sadly at stations and airports there's no alternative to Smiths for books, mags, papers, chocs etc. Last month I flew for the first time from London City Airport and, in what's a relatively tiny airport, there were 3 fucking Smiths outlets!

As well as being depressing and overpriced, Smiths shops always have a quite nauseating smell to them - a bit like Subway does, but theirs is because of their bread. I've no idea why Smiths have such a distinctive smell, unless it's the stuff their cleaners use, but why wouldn't that be used elsewhere? And Smiths have always smelt the same for as long as I can remember - which is back to the 70's!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 6, 2018)

hash tag said:


> HMV's, Waterstones, Oddbins, second hand bookshops, House of Fraser, Sainsburys & Asda, Debenhams, Maplins, Homebase and now I see M&S are scaling back....M&S to close 100 stores by 2022
> 
> Can the high street be saved, is it beyond redemption? Should they be given up and turned over to housing, if not, what?



Poundworld was looking to be rescued, but the buyers have pulled out, so it could go down.



> The future of struggling discount retailer Poundworld is in the balance after the main contender to buy the chain pulled out of talks.
> 
> Alteri Investors, whose website says it specialises in "challenging retail situations", was in advanced talks with Poundworld's owner TPG.
> 
> ...



Poundworld future hangs in the balance

They've already closed their massive Poundworld Extra store here, which only opened about 18 months earlier.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jun 6, 2018)

Didn't Poundland massively oberstretch? There were 2 in our shopping area with another 3 branded poundshops within that area over the years.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 6, 2018)

BristolEcho said:


> Didn't Poundland massively oberstretch? There were 2 in our shopping area with another 3 branded poundshops within that area over the years.



My post was about Poundworld, I don't think Poundland is in trouble.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jun 6, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> My post was about Poundworld, I don't think Poundland is in trouble.



Ah my mistake. They've set up in the same place that I mentioned.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 7, 2018)

It would be fairly neat if Poundworld ended up being sold to Poundland for a pound.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 7, 2018)

Both Homemade and BHS were sold for a pound, so it wouldn't be the first time it's happened.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 7, 2018)

Looks like House of Fraser is also reducing it's footprint.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 7, 2018)

Just saw that 

House of Fraser to close 31 stores - House of Fraser to close 31 stores

Surprised they are closing Oxford Street. Although that must be the most valuable property (or highest rent?) asset.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 7, 2018)

6000 job losses.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 7, 2018)

Fucking hell.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 7, 2018)

They have entered into a CVA apparently. I see Oxford St store is to close, which is absoutely massive. Even bigger is the Birmingham store which is also going; it's very sad for the staff.


----------



## Mr Smin (Jun 8, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Speaking of Sunday opening, I was is Westfield Shephers Bush today. I saw an Entertainer in there, which despite, I guess enormous pressure from the centre, remained firmly closed.
> Good for them, I was there was more like them.



If you want more shops to stay closed on a Sunday, why are you going into Westfield on a Sunday? Or is it not Sunday specifically, just saluting that shop for ignoring pressure from the mall operator?


----------



## hash tag (Jun 8, 2018)

I needed a walk. It was my last free day before starting a series of nights and I topped up my cosmetics from Lush!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 8, 2018)

Any idea what USDAW are planning to do about this? In terms of redundancy avoidance and job security? 

They do not seem to be recognised by HoF by the way. So maybe they need to go and speak to the 6,000 staff (and those still with a job about why a union is needed in HoF)


----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 8, 2018)

Yes, the high street is doomed.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 8, 2018)

M&S won't be long


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 8, 2018)

hash tag said:


> M&S won't be long



They have already announced a massive store closure programme.

Marks & Spencer to close 100-plus stores by 2022 in ‘radical’ plan



> Marks & Spencer is closing one in three of its core clothing and home branches in a dramatic retreat from the UK high street that will trigger thousands of job losses.
> 
> M&S on Tuesday revealed plans to close a total of 100 shops by 2022, as it expanded an existing store closure programme.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2018)

Poundland calling in the admins according to BBC


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 11, 2018)

andysays said:


> Poundland calling in the admins according to BBC



Poundworld not Poundland.

Poundworld faces collapse after talks fail


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2018)

Flicking octocurrent


----------



## nuffsaid (Jun 11, 2018)

hash tag said:


> M&S won't be long



Better not be - I worked for them years ago, for 5 years, and so I have a small pension with them. It won't keep me fed for my retirement but it might be the difference between having a pack of crisps or not with my lunch while sat on a park bench in my golden years...


----------



## hash tag (Jun 11, 2018)

You probably keep a closer eye than most on M&S. The signs are not good. Do they do food, albeit very limited and/or very confused, uninspired clothing...


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 12, 2018)

Are the M&S exclusively food stores still going? I thought that was a failed venture a few years back and a lot of them closed down.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 12, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Are the M&S exclusively food stores still going? I thought that was a failed venture a few years back and a lot of them closed down.



About 700...



> Under the expanded programmes, M&S is eliminating 25% of the floor space devoted to clothing and homewares. M&S has 1,035 stores in the UK, 300 of which sell clothing, homeware and food. There are around 700 Simply Food convenience stores.



Marks & Spencer to close 100-plus stores by 2022 in ‘radical’ plan


----------



## D'wards (Jun 12, 2018)

Westfield is due to come to Croydon at some point. They've been going on about it for years.

However, due to the fact the high street is proving to be pretty fucked, and the man in Aquazoo informs me footfall is massively down, he speculates as a result of how rough Croydon is these days, I'll be very surprised if it ever does.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 12, 2018)

St George's has been pretty much derelict for years. I'm guessing many Croydon folk prefer to shop on line or at one of the many out of town centres, like bluewater.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Jun 12, 2018)

Throughout this thread, nail bars keep being mentioned; they are thriving in even the most run-down dumps.

Most of you probably know this, but often they are a front for slavery, people trafficking and prostitution.

I went to a manicure salon in Whiteleys in Queensway a while back, and was terrified by the dwarf Pol Pot who was in charge, and the glum manicurists who barely spoke a work of English. For info:

Nail bars are havens for modern slavery. Here’s how you can help tackle it | Kate Garbers

I heard a speech by Kate Garbers, and did an online quiz. I employ 29 slaves, and have signed up for something.

Sorry, not quite the right thread for this, but one thing led to another.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 13, 2018)

I was in a branch of my building society yesterday chatting away to the member of staff about the demise of the High Street. He said it was very sad; it gives an area it's identity he said, it provides a focus a landmark, somewhere for people to shop that don't want to go on line or travel long distances. He appeared genuinely concerned. We talked about poor workers conditions in picking centres about all the job losses (The building society in question had closed many branches recently) Etc.
He then went on to say that he did nearly all of his shopping online. Thats how much he cared. I really don't think he saw the irony!


----------



## D'wards (Jun 13, 2018)

hash tag said:


> St George's has been pretty much derelict for years. I'm guessing many Croydon folk prefer to shop on line or at one of the many out of town centres, like bluewater.


Or Bromley. Croydon has gotten so bad people drive through it to go to the Glades.

Been another stabbing near the college this lunchtime


----------



## hash tag (Jun 13, 2018)

Yes, I know someone Mitcham way who always shops in Bromley. I wonder what the future holds for M&S and House of Fraser in Croydon?


----------



## newbie (Jun 16, 2018)

shops and services that are opening and closing

Nail bars are among the expanding businesses


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 18, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I was in a branch of my building society yesterday chatting away to the member of staff about the demise of the High Street. He said it was very sad; it gives an area it's identity he said, it provides a focus a landmark, somewhere for people to shop that don't want to go on line or travel long distances. He appeared genuinely concerned. We talked about poor workers conditions in picking centres about all the job losses (The building society in question had closed many branches recently) Etc.
> He then went on to say that he did nearly all of his shopping online. Thats how much he cared. I really don't think he saw the irony!


That’s not his fault. It’s cheaper to buy online. Building society staff not massive earners as far as I’m aware.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 18, 2018)

I wasn't very little working in them years ago. Still, it strikes of hyproacsy don't you think. Not with standing, many of his colleagues have been made redundant. It could be his turn next.
expect redundancies in Yorkshire bank any time soon as well.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 18, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I wasn't very little working in them years ago. Still, it strikes of hyproacsy don't you think. Not with standing, many of his colleagues have been made redundant. It could be his turn next.
> expect redundancies in Yorkshire bank any time soon as well.


So he’s a hypocrite  for not spending money he doesn’t have? Ok.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 18, 2018)

That's not what I said at all.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 18, 2018)

hash tag said:


> That's not what I said at all.


Briefly looking at what customer service reps earn in building societies, seems that 16,000 is the norm. If he also has a family to support, then he’s buying online, shopping in Tesco, all those awful hypocritical things, I don’t see that he has much choice. 


Which is why the living wage should be 10 pounds an hour. 16,000 is fuck all these days,  with rent being as high as it is.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 18, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Which is why the living wage should be 10 pounds an hour. 16,000 is fuck all these days,  with rent being as high as it is.



At £16k, the 'rent affordability' test means you can afford £533 pm in rent - Rent Calculator UK Affordability


----------



## andysays (Jun 18, 2018)

hash tag said:


> I wasn't very little working in them years ago. Still, it strikes of hyproacsy don't you think. Not with standing, many of his colleagues have been made redundant. It could be his turn next.
> expect redundancies in Yorkshire bank any time soon as well.



I don't think it's hypocrisy. 

It's undeniable that part of the reason 'traditional' high streets are declining is people understandably choosing to shop online because it's cheaper/more convenient/whatever for them as individuals, and they may regret the results of many people choosing to do that, but it would only be hypocrisy if they argued that other people should continue to shop in their local high street while they themselves shop online.

I suspect that the decline of the 'traditional' high street is unstoppable in many/most cases, and there's no point seeking to blame anyone for widespread changes in shopping and leisure habits, it is what it is.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 18, 2018)

hash tag said:


> expect redundancies in Yorkshire bank any time soon as well.



Around 1500 jobs are due to go as the owners of Yorkshire & Clydesdale banks takeover Virgin Money.


> The Clydesdale and Yorkshire bank brands are set to disappear from high streets after Virgin Money agreed to a £1.7bn takeover by the owner of the two institutions that will lead to the loss of more than 1,500 jobs.
> 
> Clydesdale and Yorkshire Bank Group (CYBG) will combine with Virgin Money to create the UK’s sixth-largest bank, with 6 million personal and small business customers, and total lending of £70bn.



Clydesdale and Yorkshire bank brands to go in takeover of Virgin Money


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 18, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> At £16k, the 'rent affordability' test means you can afford £533 pm in rent - Rent Calculator UK Affordability


After tax you are earning about 1,100 a month, so that’s down to 500 minus council tax and leccy that’s 250 at the most to spare. Mmm hmmm


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 18, 2018)

Imagine you went out twice a month, another 100 down. How on earth do people think that’s a good wage to be earning?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 18, 2018)

My Tesco shop comes to 80 a fortnight I MEAN I COULD GO ON BUT


*and that’s buying Tesco value everything except for the few things where in terms of nutritional value it pays to up the price slightly, I put a lot of work into this when my son was born.

ETA: and this is what you get doing 40 hrs a week at min wage, now of course many of us can’t work 40 hrs a week (or understandably won’t, as family comes first) so factor that in and it’s pretty dire.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 19, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> At £16k, the 'rent affordability' test means you can afford £533 pm in rent - Rent Calculator UK Affordability



That'll get you a two bed house here in the midlands and probably nothing at all in a lot of other places. For a full time job it's simply not a fair wage.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 19, 2018)

Going back to points someone has already mentioned. If you don't have much money and you have to be extra careful, surely it is better to buy things in shops, that way you can 
pick out the real bargains; food thats reached its sell by date or food in damaged packaging. You wont get those sort of bargains on line.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 19, 2018)

Debenhams next? Under the Debs story was this Six reasons behind the High Street crisis


----------



## gosub (Jun 19, 2018)

newbie said:


> shops and services that are opening and closing
> 
> Nail bars are among the expanding businesses
> View attachment 138295
> ...



I think its going to get worse for pubs....back in a village I was in 20 years ago and the dynamics have changed :they've all always got the football on the telly so now these days if you can't chat football there isn't much else the regulars can actually converse about...which is all well and good and understandable in a World Cup, but get to about November and they'll still be banging on about the Premiership and how fucking tedious these people actually are will wear everybody thin


----------



## newbie (Jun 19, 2018)

I've been noticing the word 'Traditional' in these debates and musing about it.  It means less than about 250 years or so, which is both a long time and nothing at all.  It's all our lives, what we've always known, except there's been so many changes from 1950 towns with no supermarkets, almost no self service, nothing much open past 5pm, no sheds, relatively few home fridges or freezers, no big carparks (or yellow lines), comparatively few national chains but very busy street markets and yes, loads of pubs.   So when you unpick it, a lot of _traditional_ means pretty recent and continually changing.

A fairly brief attempt has failed to find comparative employment stats but I speculate there's far, far more people employed in the _traditional_ high street now than ever before, despite online and recent bigname closures- possibly it's peaked, but quite recently I think.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 19, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Going back to points someone has already mentioned. If you don't have much money and you have to be extra careful, surely it is better to buy things in shops, that way you can
> pick out the real bargains; food thats reached its sell by date or food in damaged packaging. You wont get those sort of bargains on line.



The reduced section in my local supermarket is more barren than ever these days. That stuff disappears really quickly. Seems that lots more people go over that part of brick-and-mortar shops than before.

When my old amplifier broke, I had a look around the local second hand electronics shops. None of them had what I was looking for at a non-stupid price. It turned out to be cheaper to buy a brand new amp online.


----------



## xenon (Jun 19, 2018)

The tramps buffet is no longer a thing of shame and the middle classes swarm to it too now.

The Tesco metro one is a miserable spectical by the time I get there.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 19, 2018)

And still the gullible fools on Croydon Council think Westfield is going to spend billions when malls around the world are closing. Last one built in the US in 2007 or so...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 19, 2018)

Poi E said:


> And still the gullible fools on Croydon Council think Westfield is going to spend billions when malls around the world are closing. Last one built in the US in 2007 or so...



It's a bit weird in Worthing too, empty shop units, yet the council is looking at developments to bring about more retail space, very odd. *shrugs*


----------



## Poi E (Jun 19, 2018)

That's the service economy  Everyone a shopper, everyone a fucking slave.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's a bit weird in Worthing too, empty shop units, yet the council is looking at developments to bring about more retail space, very odd. *shrugs*



A whole new shopping centre is being built here in Nottingham, with no explanation for where the public are supposed to get the money to buy enough stuff to justify the extra square footage of retail. The centre it's replacing is mostly small shops selling cheap crap because the city is too poor and too small to sustain two large shopping centres full of expensive stuff. 

There are plenty of empty retail units around already and turnover of new businesses, especially restaurants, is high. So building a new, bigger centre will obviously solve this problem...somehow.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 20, 2018)

Reminds me of Wandsworth. It has a small, tatty shopping centre which had a few independents in it, nothing special. They got pushed out, the centre tarted up and newer plusher chains moved in. Two or three have since closed down and there is also a Debs, for whom the future is uncertain.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 20, 2018)

The idea that expanded retail presence invariably benefits the community is half baked to say the least, and that is before you dust off the Marxian immiseration take on things ( I am not even going to go there as it has been far too long ago for me to think about)


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 20, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Around 1500 jobs are due to go as the owners of Yorkshire & Clydesdale banks takeover Virgin Money.
> 
> 
> Clydesdale and Yorkshire bank brands to go in takeover of Virgin Money


 
branson has done well- I cannot remember the detail and cost of the NR bailout but somehow, somewhere in this , the taxpayer has gifting the bearded toothy prig millions


----------



## Badgers (Jun 27, 2018)

John Lewis to close Waitrose stores as profits slump - business live


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2018)

Badgers said:


> John Lewis to close Waitrose stores as profits slump - business live


they've closed a number before, including the tottenham court road one.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 27, 2018)

Tottenham Court Road used to be full of little tech shops, I see it's now all crap chains


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 27, 2018)

I was well pissed when they closed the Tottenham Court Road one. That was my go to for post-work microwave Chicken Byriani


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 27, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Tottenham Court Road used to be full of little tech shops, I see it's now all crap chains



Sofa shops, mostly. Nothing stays the same...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 27, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> I was well pissed when they closed the Tottenham Court Road one. That was my go to for post-work microwave Chicken Byriani




Long way to go from Los Angeles, must have been a blindin' byrianai!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 27, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Long way to go from Los Angeles, must have been a blindin' byrianai!



LOL I moved back to London in 2015 yo.

The Indian food in LA was largely shite by comparison, mind. And I couldn't get Ribena.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 27, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> LOL I moved back to London in 2015 yo.





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Nothing stays the same...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2018)

Badgers said:


> John Lewis to close Waitrose stores as profits slump - business live



Looks like it's just five convenience stores, four are being taken-over by the Co-op:
Co-op and Aldi to buy Waitrose stores after John Lewis profit warning



hash tag said:


> Tottenham Court Road used to be full of little tech shops, I see it's now all crap chains



It was heaven for us operators of pirate radio stations, back in the day.  

Meanwhile, despite plenty of empty shops, it looks like Worthing is doing OK compared to other towns:



> Worthing has just nine per cent of vacant retail space in its city centre for 2017-18 but its centre jobs growth between 1998 and 20155 was just one per cent.



Not sure when it became a city, perhaps the twats over at the Brighton Argus could confirm that?   

Brighton and Worthing buck the trend in national shops survey


----------



## pesh (Jun 27, 2018)

i walked halfway down Tottenham Court Road before i realised i was on it last week. sad times for gadget geeks.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 3, 2018)

Fortunately, the news appears to be all over this at the moment. Jeff Banks was on the radio this morning saying it's all down to the money spent on tech and the time it consumes meaning consumers are spending less ie the cost and time of subscription television services, mobile phones Etc.
here's a little selection, starting with an old friend: Amazon given tax boost by Government just as 50,000 people lose high street jobs
The FT has an article about crippling rates (subscription only)
Fury as high street shops to pay FOUR TIMES as much in business rates as online retailers
Anger as town centre shops forced to pay FOUR TIMES as much in business rates as online giants | Daily Mail Online
ROBERT HARDMAN: For 100 years, Binns  and M&S stood on Darlington High Street - now they’re closing | Daily Mail Online
Five ways the high street can save itself (and one way the Government can)
Our high streets are reaching crisis point – both government and consumers must do more
High Street woes hit 22,000 jobs in 2018

Still, you pays your money you takes your choice.

I suppose the question now is do we still want shops and a high street?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 4, 2018)

Consumers must do more?

No we fucking mustn't. I don't owe Topshop a fucking thing.


----------



## newbie (Jul 4, 2018)

pesh said:


> i walked halfway down Tottenham Court Road before i realised i was on it last week. sad times for gadget geeks.


is that because since about 2007 you've bought all of your gadgets from amazon or play.com?

That's not a particularly serious question, but your post made me think of when I migrated my gadgets and bits buying to TCR and then turned round one day and realised that the Edgeware Road had been hollowed out and only a pastiche of Henrys was left.


----------



## pesh (Jul 4, 2018)

nope, i get most of mine secondhand, but thats not really helping either.

to be fair the electronics shops on TCR fucked themselves over in the early 00s when they started price fixing everything so there was no point in going between the shops looking for the cheapest deal available, the first price you got was the only price you got on a lot of stuff.


----------



## newbie (Jul 4, 2018)

pesh said:


> to be fair the electronics shops on TCR fucked themselves over in the early 00s when they started price fixing everything so there was no point in going between the shops looking for the cheapest deal available, the first price you got was the only price you got on a lot of stuff.


yes I agree. I used to stand in the big newsagent getting a base price from the mail order ads in What HiFi, then go and haggle.  But gradually the shops became less specialist geek and more mainstream commodity as China started sending huge ships full of gadgets and there was a glut.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 4, 2018)

If my wages actually rose with inflation rather than lagging behind it, and if the cost of living wasn't quite so fucking ridiculous, then I might be inclined to spend more of my disposable income on the high street. As opposed to spending what little I have on the internet, where prices are cheaper.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 4, 2018)

Poi E said:


> And still the gullible fools on Croydon Council think Westfield is going to spend billions when malls around the world are closing. Last one built in the US in 2007 or so...



The original Westfield is expanding soon I think, I might go to the Japanese market if I can be arsed. Then again there's a little Japanese shop near picadilly that's half the price of the Japan centre and it's ilk.

God knows the Stratford Westfield is a bloody nightmare on a weekend.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 8, 2018)

I found myself needing an Android phone because I could hack Android Auto onto my car's infotainment system (mazda 3) which is obviously useless without an Android phone. I'm an iPhone user so wanted to spend as little as possible on a device without it being unbearably slow and too low on internal memory. A difficult ask. Too difficult for the high street.

I ended up returning two phones to Argos. One didn't work out the box, was the last one they had in stock, replaced it with another model, which was just shite.

Ended up ordering off Amazon and got something that pissed all over the phones available from high street tech stores for the price i was willing to pay. As much as I wanted to use the high street, they just couldn't provide what I needed.


----------



## Cid (Jul 8, 2018)

Poi E said:


> And still the gullible fools on Croydon Council think Westfield is going to spend billions when malls around the world are closing. Last one built in the US in 2007 or so...



They're popular in China... And this despite China having much better on-line purchasing. But it's kind of weird, I'm not sure how many people are actually buying stuff in them. And you do get deserted malls in weird places... So there may be some kind of financial jiggery-pockery going on.


----------



## Cid (Jul 8, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Tottenham Court Road used to be full of little tech shops, I see it's now all crap chains



Yeah, well it's not exactly surprising that people that buy tech rapidly started doing so online. And many of those shops were pretty shit. I lament the Tottenham Court road camera shops though, they were great.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 9, 2018)

Mothercare to close 60 stores, putting 900 jobs at risk


----------



## hash tag (Jul 9, 2018)

It is starting to look like most chains are shedding branches


----------



## BristolEcho (Jul 9, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Mothercare to close 60 stores, putting 900 jobs at risk



Mothercare have always been ridiculously expensive right?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 9, 2018)

Most places are expensive when compared to online retailers who pay little or no tax and treat their staff like slaves.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jul 9, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Most places are expensive when compared to online retailers who pay little or no tax and treat their staff like slaves.



This is of course true. I meant in the context of similar brick and mortar shops though. I've never had to use mothercare but I know my Mum who was a foster carer thought they were ridiculous.


----------



## Santino (Jul 9, 2018)

Stephen King wrote a chillingly prescient novel about a whole town, not only a high street, that is doomed.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 9, 2018)

I have been to mother care for years but often used toys r us for baby stuff, like nappies. Whatever happened to them


----------



## Santino (Jul 9, 2018)

Santino said:


> Stephen King wrote a chillingly prescient novel about a whole town, not only a high street, that is doomed.


Correction: Domed, not doomed.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 9, 2018)

Is that some that was turned into a weird television thing 
Remember the programme if not the ending.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 22, 2018)

How is Debenhams still open?


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jul 22, 2018)

Lambeth High St was doomed years ago

Lambeth High Street - Vauxhall History


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 22, 2018)

Like Tottenham Ct Rd - Oxford St is a shadow of what it once was. Apart from Selfridges and a big John Lewis finally getting a makeover, there so many souvenir/tat, american candy stores and other temporary looking luggage type places, all basically non useful shit. Many closures too. BHS, House of Fraser soon leaving, Benetton.

I have the misfortune of working in the area and there's little affordable eating there either. I preferred the days when I could find an affordable greasy spoon, Greggs or a Sainsburys cafe within walking distance of my office. Load of bollocks.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 22, 2018)

BristolEcho said:


> This is of course true. I meant in the context of similar brick and mortar shops though. I've never had to use mothercare but I know my Mum who was a foster carer thought they were ridiculous.



Yup, mothercare have always been horrifically overpriced - I recall looking for everything when my first was one her way and mothercare were between 30 and 50% more expensive than places like toys'rus and the Glasgow Pram Centre. 

The one good thing they do is fit baby seats in cars, everything else is just a chiselling rip-off.


----------



## extra dry (Jul 23, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Consumers must do more?
> 
> No we fucking mustn't. I don't owe Topshop a fucking thing.


Yes now, come on, support your local and global capalists.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 3, 2018)

Meanwhile Amazon half their tax bill.

Amazon halved UK corporation tax bill to £4.5m last year


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 3, 2018)

Astonishing that the government and IR are so inept at collecting tax from them.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 3, 2018)

Chilli.s said:


> Astonishing that the government and IR are so inept at collecting tax from them.


Apparently Amazon tried to the deliver the tax but nobody was home.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 3, 2018)

Some good news at least  

William Hill could close up to 900 betting shops after FOBT clampdown


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 10, 2018)

Some not so good news...

House of Fraser calls in administrators


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 10, 2018)

The costs of stores, (greedy landlords still not realising that their assets will soon be worthless), staff and paying full tax, vs. online shops with cheap warehouses, cheap staff and dodging tax, high streets are fucked and there’s nothing much can be done about that.


----------



## bimble (Aug 10, 2018)

quite a nice article about the end days of poundworld. 
Not so penny-wise: the last days of Poundworld


----------



## mentalchik (Aug 10, 2018)

I think the days of large stores...M&S,BHS etc etc are probably declining if not already gone.....In Northampton BHS and M&S are next to one another so the main shopping street will now have two huge empty properties to add to all the other smaller empty shops lining our town centre....even the retail parks are beginning to look a bit sparse...if Debenhams goes that is a really massive property that will sit empty......there really needs to be some thought as to what will happen to and what can be done with these spaces....greedy landlords indeed will soon have millstones around their necks.....


----------



## Poi E (Aug 10, 2018)

Heavens. They'll have to let to small traders.

I can see Oxford Street in 10 years being just a shite miasma of tourist tat and coffee chains with Selfridge's holding out.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 10, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Heavens. They'll have to let to small traders.


and niche religions/political groups and there will be empty squat able spaces again


----------



## cybershot (Aug 10, 2018)

Erm, Sports Direct have just purchased House of Fraser!

House of Fraser bought by Sports Direct


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 10, 2018)

Problem with all these emptying stores in central London is they all too readily get turned into crap souvenir tat shops, or 'american candy' places. blugh.

Remember when the Trocadero had Segaworld, Laserquest, a Multiplex cinema, and all kinds of other cool shit. It truly looked like we were heading to the promised world of cyberpunk hangouts, and techno entertainment, but its just more crap souvenir shops now.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 10, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Erm, Sports Direct have just purchased House of Fraser!
> 
> House of Fraser bought by Sports Direct



Looking forward to getting a giant Jenners mug.


----------



## pesh (Aug 10, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Heavens. They'll have to let to small traders.
> 
> I can see Oxford Street in 10 years being just a shite miasma of tourist tat and coffee chains with Selfridge's holding out.


thats exactly what it is now?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 11, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> high streets are fucked and there’s nothing much can be done about that.



Capitalism has brought this on itself. The same people now moaning about being outcompeted by nebulous online companies are the ones who got where they are now by crushing independent businesses in exactly the same way as they are themselves now being crushed, to the point where every high street in Britain is basically the same. And when the chains go belly up according to the merciless logic of the system that created them in the first place, no independent businesses can afford to take their place because they've driven up commercial rents with their high-margin, high-volume business model which somehow never led to a high-wage economy.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 11, 2018)

And the city councils who encouraged rent and rates rises, happy to sell to the highest bidder are gonna be left potless too!


----------



## not a trot (Aug 11, 2018)

There are only two shops left in our high street that were there 40 years ago. The Lemon Place fish and chip shop, and Corals bookmakers.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 11, 2018)

I'm not particularly well-travelled but it seems to me that other countries in Europe have not succumbed to homogenisation of retail to nearly the same extent as the UK has. In Italy chain outlets are the exception rather than the rule in towns and cities, even in international shopping destinations like Milan most businesses seem to be independents outside of a few Oxford Street-esque areas. Genoa, a major regional city, has one medium-sized supermarket in the city centre, a handful of little Carrefours and that's about it. People seem to get most of their shopping from the bakery, butcher, greengrocer, deli etc. Simillar story in France, where there are more supermarkets and more out-of-town hypermarchés but they open at the same 'when we feel like it' hours as the local greengrocer rather than all day every day and they still don't seem anywhere near to driving out M. Poisson the fishmonger down the road.

I'm sure there are numerous factors at work here, cultural, political and economic, but I'd be willing to bet our antisocial working hours play a role. People don't have time to wander around getting this here and that there if there's an option to get it all from Tescos and then maybe get home before the kids go to bed.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 11, 2018)

Some of the morning papers ran headlines about web giants getting taxed differently to make it a level playing field. Not read any of them, and I suspect by the time anything gets implemented it will be too late.


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 11, 2018)

I live above a row of shops; in the 2.5 years since I've been here, one business (a takeaway, chips and kebabs with a carvery on sundays) has closed, a second (florist, and florists are having it particularly bad nowadays) is in the process of closing - and this is just the last couple of years in only a 100-yard stretch of hight st.

There's a bakery up the road that's been open 30-odd years, and a fabric shop similarly. I wonder how much longer places like those have got.

EtA, the already-closed and still-vacant TV rental shop, hardware shop (knocked down now, bet it's flats next), closed department store, closed sweet shop (last year) .. but 8 or 9 charity shops, even more than that of hairdressers / nail salons. Couple of CashConverter type places. Vape shops. New Lidl, obvs.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 11, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm not particularly well-travelled but it seems to me that other countries in Europe have not succumbed to homogenisation of retail to nearly the same extent as the UK has...



Regulation like rent control, very specific commercial zoning etc. All anathema to the Anglo way.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 12, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Regulation like rent control, very specific commercial zoning etc. All anathema to the Anglo way.



One factor is the planning system which allows Tesco or whoever to launch endless appeals if they're denied permission to build a new store, and forces local authorities to pay legal costs each time. Even if the local council hasn't drunk the corporate regeneration kool aid, and isn't good-old-fashioned corrupt, they might well cave in just to save their precarious budget.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 14, 2018)

More retail park, than high street, but 1,500 jobs to go:

Homebase set to close 42 stores


----------



## a_chap (Aug 14, 2018)

There is no way that stores like Homebase, B&Q, Wickes, etc. will survive. They have to keep enormous stocks of products (in all sizes/colours) which the great unwashed, fumbling public too often damage/steal. Places like Toolstore, Screwfix provide the same service with vastly lower overheads.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 14, 2018)

a_chap said:


> There is no way that stores like Homebase, B&Q, Wickes, etc. will survive. They have to keep enormous stocks of products (in all sizes/colours) which the great unwashed, fumbling public too often damage/steal. Places like Toolstore, Screwfix provide the same service with vastly lower overheads.



Wickes (200+ outlets) is probably best placed to survive, being owned by Travis Perkins, the builder merchants with almost 2000 outlets, and massive buying power.

And, Travis Perkins also own Toolstore.


----------



## a_chap (Aug 14, 2018)

When I go into my local Wickes it's rarely busy. And Wickes is *not* cheap either. 

I'll stand by my Wickes-is-doomed prediction, thanks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 14, 2018)

I'll miss thier catalogues


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 14, 2018)

The difference IME between Wickes and Homebase, is that Wickes have stuff I need that is built well enough to be worth using. Homebase is basically a tat shop, Wickes sell hardware. It's no guarantee, but if they do fold they'll be the last to go (apart from the odd small local hardware shop, which will no doubt cling on for ever by some combination of personal service and ideal location)


----------



## ska invita (Aug 14, 2018)

a_chap said:


> When I go into my local Wickes it's rarely busy. And Wickes is *not* cheap either.
> 
> I'll stand by my Wickes-is-doomed prediction, thanks.


Wickes near me very quiet...B&Q busier.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 14, 2018)

a_chap said:


> When I go into my local Wickes it's rarely busy. And Wickes is *not* cheap either.
> 
> I'll stand by my Wickes-is-doomed prediction, thanks.



I rarely go into any of these places, but was up doing a massive shed base at my niece's new house a few weeks ago, we needed another 900kg of ballast, which we picked-up from Wickes in Tunbridge Wells on the Sunday morning, we got there early, which was lucky as loads of people turned-up after us waiting for them to open, a good couple of dozen in the que.

Bloody big outlet as well, strangely right next to an even bigger Travis Perkins site!


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 14, 2018)

TP is trade, Wickes is consumer, essentially. I think it's a VAT issue.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 14, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> TP is trade, Wickes is consumer, essentially. I think it's a VAT issue.



I've used both over the years, TP is mainly trade, but still deals with consumers, and Wickes vice versa.

Not sure about a VAT issue, as both charge VAT.


----------



## mojo pixy (Aug 14, 2018)

Fair enough, it's ages and ages since I've bought anything from TP. I think I remember TP's prices being displayed ex-VAT, but Wickes' prices are inc-VAT. Gave me the idea, it wasn't a rigorously researched claim, more like out the back of a van


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 14, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I think I remember TP's prices being displayed ex-VAT, but Wickes' prices are inc-VAT.



Yeah, that's totally normal, mainly B-2-B sellers will price plus VAT, whereas B-2-C sellers will price inclusive of VAT.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 14, 2018)

Poi E said:


> The small hardware stores are generally selling the same Chinese made bits and pieces as the larger chains.
> 
> As for paints, it's amazing how shit a lot of paint in the UK is, especially considering it's a relatively mild maritime climate without huge amounts of UV or variations in humidity. Johnson's are about the best.



As I was reading your post, I was thinking 'Johnson's. It is amazing paint. One of the cats had clawed into textured wallpaper, when painted with a single coat of Johnson's, if you didn't know where it was you wouldn't see it.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 14, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Landlords to fight use of CVAs by retailers seeking rent cuts
> 
> 
> says colliers retail bod with a straight face. lol.



Fine, CVA and lower rent, or, bankruptcy and no rent.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 14, 2018)

a_chap said:


> There is no way that stores like Homebase, B&Q, Wickes, etc. will survive. They have to keep enormous stocks of products (in all sizes/colours) which the great unwashed, fumbling public too often damage/steal. Places like Toolstore, Screwfix provide the same service with vastly lower overheads.



Screwfix are owned by the same people as B&Q. 

B&Q seems to loss-lead on popular items like white emulsion and plain tiles, but odds and ends are expensive, it’s usually cheaper in Wickes or even small independents (what’s left of them).


----------



## Poi E (Aug 14, 2018)

The Aussies must have taken a hell of a bruising over Homebase. I wonder if their due diligence was compromised by hubris. I suspect existing management of Homebase were glad to be paid off.


----------



## A380 (Aug 16, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> As I was reading your post, I was thinking 'Johnson's. It is amazing paint. One of the cats had clawed into textured wallpaper, when painted with a single coat of Johnson's, if you didn't know where it was you wouldn't see it.


You painted your cat? It’s no wonder you can’t see it...


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 16, 2018)

A380 said:


> You painted your cat? It’s no wonder you can’t see it...


I painted him tartan, with Johnson's excellent tartan paint.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 16, 2018)

A380 said:


> You painted your cat? It’s no wonder you can’t see it...



TBF, it's not a bad job, no idea why he can't see it...


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 16, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> Fair enough, it's ages and ages since I've bought anything from TP. I think I remember TP's prices being displayed ex-VAT, but Wickes' prices are inc-VAT. Gave me the idea, it wasn't a rigorously researched claim, more like out the back of a van



A lot of companies advertise ex-vat prices.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 16, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I rarely go into any of these places, but was up doing a massive shed base at my niece's new house a few weeks ago, we needed another 900kg of ballast, which we picked-up from Wickes in Tunbridge Wells on the Sunday morning, we got there early, which was lucky as loads of people turned-up after us waiting for them to open, a good couple of dozen in the que.
> 
> Bloody big outlet as well, strangely right next to an even bigger Travis Perkins site!



I'll bet you were surprised how small an amount 900kg is. A cubic meter of rock is circa 2000Kg. Wet sand is heavier than rock.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 16, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'll bet you were surprised how small an amount 900kg is. A cubic meter of rock is circa 2000Kg. Wet sand is heavier than rock.



The 900kg was half a cubic metre, we had one lot dropped in a grab-bag on the Friday, for the job over the weekend.

But, somehow my brother had fucked-up with the calculations, despite having the right amount of cement, we needed another half cubic metre of ballast, but we had to go with small bags, a wrapped pallet load, fork-lifted out into the car-park, so we could break it down - max. 650 kg in my small van, the other 250kg in his car.

Cost about 25% more in small bags, but couldn't get a grab bag delivered on Sunday, the cement mixer had to go back first thing Monday, and us lot back to our day jobs.

ETA: Just checked, and edited & added 'half' a couple of times above, that's how he fucked up - he thought, and told me, the grab bag was a full cubic metre, now I going to ring in & tell him, the dickhead.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 17, 2018)

Give it another few decades and somewhere in the country there will be a Beamish style living history museum representing the turn of the millennium era, with reconstructed Woolies, Rumbelows, C&A and Blockbuster etc. A journey back in time. You’ll even be able to pay for stuff with reproduction money, the old decimalised stuff that existed before Prime Minister Mogg reintroduced farthings and 240 pennies to the pound.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 18, 2018)

And remember why it all went south when you realise clicking on a link about a product is more helpful than getting the attention of a human.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 31, 2018)

cybershot said:


> More retail park, than high street, but 1,500 jobs to go:
> 
> Homebase set to close 42 stores



The whole lot could end-up closing, apparently it's crunch day, and if they can't get landlords to agree to rent reductions, of between 25% and 90% at 70 stores, the whole company is heading into administration, with over 11,000 jobs at risk. 



> DIY retailer Homebase faces a make-or-break vote on its future on Friday as it teeters on the brink of collapse.
> 
> The chain - where 70% of outlets are losing money - has proposed closing 42 stores and cutting rents on others as part of a rescue plan.
> 
> ...



Their debts are massive...



> Homebase owes more than £1bn to employees, landlords, suppliers and other creditors – but only has £151m spare to pay them if it goes bust.
> 
> If Homebase goes bust its 11,000 staff could be left out of pocket by £30.8m. The taxman could also lose out on £19.4m.
> 
> ...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 31, 2018)

Fuck sakes, half a billion owed, 11,000 jobs at risk. They’re fucked.

Plus their bird food is the cheapest around here


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 31, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Fuck sakes, half a billion owed, ...



It's over a billion owed.

The Aussies seriously fucked it up, how the hell did they go from buying it for £340m in 2016, and selling it for £1, with massive debts, just over 2 years later. 



> Homebase was plunged into financial ruin after Aussie DIY owners Wesfarmers bought the home improvement chain for £340m in 2016. The disastrous takeover saw Wesfarmers rebrand Homebase to its Australian brand Bunnings and alienate loyal customers by ditching popular products and concessions.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 31, 2018)

Does all this money disappear into directors pockets. The banks always end being owed millions as do suppliers and probably the taxman. It's not the staff who are probably on minimum wages.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 2, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's over a billion owed.
> 
> The Aussies seriously fucked it up, how the hell did they go from buying it for £340m in 2016, and selling it for £1, with massive debts, just over 2 years later.


Must be an Aussie thing. Reminds me of Kerry Packer selling his TV network to Alan Bond for a billion dollars then buying it a couple of years later for 0.25 billion. Packer later said 'You only get one Alan Bond in your lifetime and I've had mine'. A shame he couldn't pull the same trick on Murdock. Bond later went to prison for fraud. Packer revolutionised cricket while Murdock interfered with democracy in other countries.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 2, 2018)

Bunnings does very well in Aus, so they must've applied that logic to the takeover of Homebase without factoring in virtually everything which makes the UK market so very different to Australia.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 2, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Bunnings does very well in Aus, so they must've applied that logic to the takeover of Homebase without factoring in virtually everything which makes the UK market so very different to Australia.



That certainly seems the back story to it.



> The Australian company’s £340m takeover, just two years earlier, has been called one of the worst acquisitions in UK corporate history. It sought to rebrand Homebase under the Bunnings name it uses in Australia and overhaul its stock offering.
> 
> This moved it away from casual homewares and into heavy duty DIY and items such as large barbecues and hot tubs that sell well in Australia but have less appeal in the UK. By the time Hilco took control, 70% of the stores were losing money.



In better news, they have been saved, sad to see 1,500 jobs go, but on the positive side around 10,000 are saved. 



> Homebase is to cut 1,500 jobs as part of a rescue deal that will save the DIY chain from bankruptcy and give it breathing space to recover from the disastrous stewardship of its previous owners.



Homebase rescued from collapse but 1,500 jobs to go


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 2, 2018)

Homebase is a basically the home decor and outdoor section of the Argos catalogue except you can walk around and browse.


----------



## daah (Sep 2, 2018)

woaa.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2018)

Waterstones buys Foyles  Interesting. Foyles new flagship in Charing Cross Road just a short walk from Waterstones Picadilly, not tomention Hatchards a few doors away. More closures and job losses?
Waterstones buys Foyles 'to defend bookshops'


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2018)

This doesn't look good either. Not the best of bike shops nor the worst, but been around a while now Yahoo is now part of Oath


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 7, 2018)

hash tag said:


> This doesn't look good either. Not the best of bike shops nor the worst, but been around a while now Yahoo is now part of Oath



Quite surprising as they have quite a strong online presence and are competitive with prices on the web, I’ve ordered quite a few bits from them. I guess they’re getting shafted a bit by the likes of Wiggle and maybe Amazon. Bike shops have been doing better in recent years with bike to work schemes & popularity of cycling increasing (both recreational and utility), although that money is spread around more retailers than it used to be.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 7, 2018)

Evans have expanded a lot in the last 10 years, which may not have been good for them. Apart from online, I think many non cyclists go to Halfords.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 9, 2018)

debanhams have spent all weekend with KPMG

bad news rising i think


----------



## hash tag (Sep 9, 2018)

No surprises there I don't think.


----------



## stavros (Sep 9, 2018)

You'd initially think that for something like a bike, or for associated items, you'd want to "try it on" in the shop, rather than buy online. But then the same could be said for clothes before BHS, HoF, et al.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 9, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> debanhams have spent all weekend with KPMG
> 
> bad news rising i think



Mike Ashley must be wanking himself off tonight, he's was after Debenhams even before getting interested in House of Fraser.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 9, 2018)

soemthing that has struck me is the the idea of shops being turned primarily into display outlets, to allow people to browse and take pics, then to hopefully go home and order online has a curious retro Soviet kinda vibe to it.Course luxury goods is more about the event rather than the product, so they fall outside this theme. Changes in consumption process seesm to be afoot.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2018)

> Profits at John Lewis have fallen to almost zero in the first half of its financial year as its department store chain battled to match discounting "extravaganza days" by rivals.
> 
> John Lewis Partnership chairman Sir Charlie Mayfield said the retail sector was facing "challenging times".
> 
> Its results, which include Waitrose, showed profits for the six months to 28 July sank 99% from last year to £1.2m.



John Lewis profits slump 99%

That's one hell of a drop.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 13, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Mike Ashley must be wanking himself off tonight, he's was after Debenhams even before getting interested in House of Fraser.



The nice Mr Ashley is probably waiting for Debs to go into liquidation, ignore the debts, flog the assets and turn a nice profit or have i misunderstood him?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 13, 2018)

Smangus said:


> Only fried chicken emporiums and Paddy power in 10 years...


My local KFC has just closed its doors and is getting turned into a coffee shop.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 13, 2018)

stavros said:


> You'd initially think that for something like a bike, or for associated items, you'd want to "try it on" in the shop, rather than buy online. But then the same could be said for clothes before BHS, HoF, et al.


The distance selling regulations mean you can send stuff back if you don't like it or it doesn't fit. What's the point going into a busy shop when you can do it from the comfort of your home?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> The distance selling regulations mean you can send stuff back if you don't like it or it doesn't fit. What's the point going into a busy shop when you can do it from the comfort of your home?



Ditto with tech, buy from a shop, decide you don't like it, and you'll have a real struggle trying to get a cash refund. Online, use it to your hearts content for 14 days (maybe even longer now) decide you don't like it, or even, done what you've need to do with it, send it back, full refund. Amazon for all their ills in this thread for the downfall of the high street, but is a good argument in this case, will refund you as soon as it's scanned in at the point of return. Or at least, they seem to with me, maybe it requires to build a customer profile first and you get marked for returning goods in a resell able conditional.


----------



## chilango (Sep 14, 2018)

The "High Street" isn't just about shops and shopping though

It's a physical location.

A site, however gentrified or privatised or dominated by consumer society, of community of sorts.

Where people meet. Do stuff together. See others doing stuff.

That's the loss I'm interested in.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 14, 2018)

chilango said:


> The "High Street" isn't just about shops and shopping though
> 
> It's a physical location.
> 
> ...


Somebody needs to invent an app for the Amazon marketplace, that bumps into and pushes you, and makes you cold and wet, then makes you queue for 15 minutes before letting you pay, and once you have finally paid and left the marketplace, it deposits a lump of dog turd on your shoe.


----------



## chilango (Sep 14, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Somebody needs to invent an app for the Amazon marketplace, that bumps into and pushes you, and makes you cold and wet, then makes you queue for 15 minutes before letting you pay, and once you have finally paid and left the marketplace, it deposits a lump of dog turd on your shoe.



I think it's already been released, but only to workers in Amazon's warehouses.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> Must be an Aussie thing.



It's not an Aussie thing. Look at Philip Green's catastrophic ownership of BHS.


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 14, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's not an Aussie thing. Look at Philip Green's catastrophic ownership of BHS.


You misunderstand my post, Frank. My post was specifically about Aussie tycoon incompetence in paying too much for a company then selling it off at a fraction of the price a few years later. The example I gave was Alan Bond buying Nine Network for AUS$1bn from Packer and then selling it back to Packer a few years later for a quarter of that price.

Philip Green is another kind of species . Green, not an Aussie, bought BHS for peanuts, bum-raped the pension fund to the tune of a few hundred million, then sold the company to someone else for £1. The company went bust shortly thereafter. Green later paid £363m to the pension regulator to avoid prosecution.

To avoid further misunderstanding, I'm not criticising Kerry Packer here. We both know he did great things for cricket


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 14, 2018)

I keep reading this thread title as ‘is the High Street domed?’ and expect it to be about future utopian cities sealed in giant glass bubbles to protect against climate extremes or something.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 15, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> bum-raped the pension fund


----------



## Peter Chadwick (Sep 17, 2018)

chilango said:


> The "High Street" isn't just about shops and shopping though
> 
> It's a physical location.
> 
> ...



its not just the High Street .. its shopping malls and out of town stores too. Retail brick and mortar generally.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 19, 2018)

Noticed that both my local carphone warehouses have closed down and just found this, no big loss really

Retailer Orla Kiely ceases trading on cash crunch - Retailer Orla Kiely ceases trading


----------



## Poi E (Sep 19, 2018)

I'm hoping this means they won't fuck the centre of Croydon up even more with the Westfield development.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 19, 2018)

What will come of Croydon. St George's Walk is just a film set. Whitgift Centre is dying on its feet. House of Frasers future is in doubt as is Debenhams.....


----------



## Poi E (Sep 19, 2018)

Apartments.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 20, 2018)

I had heard rumours about Evans. ItIts not looking good 
Evans Cycles seeks new owner amid cash crunch - Evans Cycles seeks new owner amid cash crunch


----------



## Badgers (Sep 21, 2018)

FFS


----------



## hash tag (Sep 21, 2018)

Tosscos in disguise.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 21, 2018)

Yep, it's Tesco's new discount store brand, can't believe people queued for 7 hours to be amongst the first in. 

Shoppers queue from 3am as Jack’s joins high street


----------



## hash tag (Oct 25, 2018)

I see Debenhams is going to close around 50 stores with the sad loss of about 4000 jobs.
I see it is also reported that Gourmet Burger King, Prezzo and Byron are also reporting problems. No doubt they will be closing branches and shedding jobs


----------



## Badgers (Oct 25, 2018)

Not much sympathy for Pezzo or GBK as they just bland chains in a bloated sector. Poor service and average food at best. Byron can do one after their treatment of staff.

Shame to see more jobs lost mind


----------



## stavros (Oct 25, 2018)

Could Top Shop, etc take a hit after Peter Hain's intervention today?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Oct 25, 2018)

I'm not surprised at Debenham's going under. It's been bland and boring for years.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 25, 2018)

Think of the staff. Remember BHS?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Oct 25, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Think of the staff. Remember BHS?


Oh I'm very sad for the staff but it's a shit store, has been for years, so it's demise does not surprise me. Like BHS. M&S are the same and only propped up by the food part of the business I believe.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 26, 2018)

stavros said:


> Could Top Shop, etc take a hit after Peter Hain's intervention today?


Are the Top Shop customer base up on current news?


----------



## Badgers (Oct 26, 2018)

If Debenhams bosses want to cut costs, they should start with their outrageous salaries


----------



## stavros (Oct 26, 2018)

Badgers said:


> Are the Top Shop customer base up on current news?



Some will be. I'd have liked more people to boycott them when Mr and Mrs Green's tax arrangements were publicised. However, news of billions of revenue being avoided always seems to meet with indifference from the masses, "They're all the same" or "If I could afford a good accountant...".


----------



## hash tag (Oct 27, 2018)

Badgers said:


> If Debenhams bosses want to cut costs, they should start with their outrageous salaries



It's curious that Bucher went from Amazon to Debs 

If we shed some jobs before we merge with Sainsbury's, perhaps the merger won't look quite so bad.  https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/work/adsa-closures-job-losses/

Too little, too late and probably won't work. So much red tape https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/b...unveiling-1-5bn-tax-cut-and-prettify-project/


----------



## hash tag (Oct 27, 2018)

A small sad business story "the only one in London" Much loved Battersea business could be forced to closed | Wandsworth Guardian


----------



## hash tag (Oct 30, 2018)

Fuck me. Ashley is buying Evans bikes and will close half the stores!

Half of Evans Cycles stores set to close


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 30, 2018)

hash tag said:


> A small sad business story "the only one in London" Much loved Battersea business could be forced to closed | Wandsworth Guardian



Not the only one in London, there’s an independent foam shop towards Angel on Pentonville Rd, though god knows how they are still in business.


----------



## weepiper (Oct 30, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Fuck me. Ashley is buying Evans bikes and will close half the stores!
> 
> Half of Evans Cycles stores set to close


Sad news for the staff in the shops that are going to close (and I know 3 or 4 people that work at Evans) but I can't say I'm especially sorry overall - they're known within the bike trade for aggressively targeting independent bike shops. They opened big stores in Aberdeen and Edinburgh that were both within a short distance of stores of the small independent co-op chain that I work for and they really hurt our sales in both cities (for example they undercut our bid for the Edinburgh Council bike to work contract, which was a major source of income for us). We're still going (just) but if Evans were to close those two stores it would give us a bigger share of the available customer base again. I'm sure it's the same story for lots of smaller bike shops across the UK.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 30, 2018)

Ashley running the remaining shops will be bad news, full of risible crap badged up as once reputable brands that he owns (so lots of Muddy Fox stuff).

Evans has been run by Venture Capitalists for a number of years, as with a lot of the other businesses that have gone under of late. A pattern emerging.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 31, 2018)

What they'll is Ashley up to? The trend is away from high street retailers at the moment, yet he is buying in to it more and more.
is it simply a case of asset stripping bankrupt business's I wonder...noting hecwaits for them to go bankrupt and the buys themthem for a song seconds later and sets about closing them.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 31, 2018)

He is going to need a fleet of helicopters to manage his ever expanding array of retail outlets


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 31, 2018)

hash tag said:


> What they'll is Ashley up to? The trend is away from high street retailers at the moment, yet he is buying in to it more and more.
> is it simply a case of asset stripping bankrupt business's I wonder...noting hecwaits for them to go bankrupt and the buys themthem for a song seconds later and sets about closing them.



It’s a Branson/ Starbucks approach - he is piling into everything by hoping that one or two will cover the loses in the rest whilst at the same time making the high street into a race to the bottom that will finish off his competitors who do not have pockets deep enough to subsidise the business.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 31, 2018)

weepiper said:


> Sad news for the staff in the shops that are going to close (and I know 3 or 4 people that work at Evans) but I can't say I'm especially sorry overall - they're known within the bike trade for aggressively targeting independent bike shops. They opened big stores in Aberdeen and Edinburgh that were both within a short distance of stores of the small independent co-op chain that I work for and they really hurt our sales in both cities (for example they undercut our bid for the Edinburgh Council bike to work contract, which was a major source of income for us). We're still going (just) but if Evans were to close those two stores it would give us a bigger share of the available customer base again. I'm sure it's the same story for lots of smaller bike shops across the UK.


Also I was never sure what Evans brought to the table, apart from a few discounts on last year's bike models. They rarely employ knowledgeable people. At least Halfords (who also don't) has come up with a semi-decent brand of bikes that people like, and stores tend to be located away from other bike shops.

Didn't know Evans was started in Kennington though, or that it was so old. Praps they should have stuck to Kennington.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 1, 2018)

Over 200 shopping centres 'in crisis'


----------



## hash tag (Nov 3, 2018)

For know, I'll settle for sports goods and retailers then dominate the high street tomorrow, possibly

BBC News - What is Mike Ashley's plan for the High Street?
What is Mike Ashley's plan for the High Street?


----------



## Chilli.s (Nov 3, 2018)

The investment companies with their hidden from view wealth are just itching to turn all those loss making city center sites into flats to sell to other investment companies from anywhere in the world. In a few years all the money will be gone along with the ownership to far flung places where taxation isn't a problem.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 3, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Over 200 shopping centres 'in crisis'



Interesting point...historical buildings and town centres have been demolished to make way for those awful centres. You will never get that history or character back


----------



## chilango (Nov 3, 2018)

The reason for hope (and of course it's the hope that kills us) to take from all this is that it's yet another blatant signal that capitalism is giving up the pretence of meeting society's needs and wants...even manufactured ones.

Even my free-market true believer parents (one an ex-Tory member the other a former Liberal candidate) can no longer find ways to claim that the market is working and are increasingly calling for state intervention.

We're no closer to people contemplating any sort of socialism or communism as an alternative. But I do genuinely believe we've entered the end game of free market, neoliberal capitalism as a functioning, sustainable ideology. They're cashing in their chips and leaving the table.

Fuck knows what follows.


----------



## Red Cat (Nov 3, 2018)

Brainaddict said:


> Also I was never sure what Evans brought to the table, apart from a few discounts on last year's bike models. They rarely employ knowledgeable people. At least Halfords (who also don't) has come up with a semi-decent brand of bikes that people like, and stores tend to be located away from other bike shops.
> 
> Didn't know Evans was started in Kennington though, or that it was so old. Praps they should have stuck to Kennington.



I have a Pinnacle bike and my kids too, their kids bikes are good lightweight bikes about £100 quid cheaper than Frog bikes, which are great and we now have one of those for the eldest, but their Pinnacles were very good I thought.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 3, 2018)

hash tag said:


> Interesting point...historical buildings and town centres have been demolished to make way for those awful centres. You will never get that history or character back


knock these centres down and replace them with hundreds of stacked shipping containers >progress


----------



## ska invita (Nov 3, 2018)

chilango said:


> But I do genuinely believe we've entered the end game of free market, neoliberal capitalism as a functioning, sustainable ideology. They're cashing in their chips and leaving the table.
> 
> Fuck knows what follows.


agree with your post but for the last bit - i wish they were leaving the table - looks more like the opposite to me in that theyre digging deeper, doubling down, making larger profits than ever, and happy to let dictators, neofascists and other authoritarians thrive so as to hold down the unrest arising from this next stage.


----------



## BristolEcho (Nov 3, 2018)

ska invita said:


> agree with your post but for the last bit - i wish they were leaving the table - looks more like the opposite to me in that theyre digging deeper, doubling down, making larger profits than ever, and happy to let dictators, neofascists and other authoritarians thrive so as to hold down the unrest arising from this next stage.



Yep like both of the posts as I want to believe the former, but I fear the latter.


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 4, 2018)

Wasn’t there a time when a lot of shopping centres were owned by pension funds, owners that could work with a long term steady but not particularly massive return? Ownership by hedge funds is fairly recent, and seems to have coincided with higher rents, a case of screw the tenants for whatever you can get. Noted that with quite a few of these recent bankruptcies there has been an attempt to renegotiate rents to make things viable.


----------



## Poi E (Nov 4, 2018)

Pension funds invest in hedge funds all the time.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 13, 2018)

50 year old company, 13 UK shops gone 
BBC News - Berketex Bride in administration
Berketex Bride in administration


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 13, 2018)

Every day I drive down Oxford Street and see once well known stores turned into tacky souvenir tat shops. The economics of high footfalls justifying ridiculous rents just aren't working.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 13, 2018)

The eastern end of Oxford street has always been the tacky end. I imagine the rates are extortionate.


----------



## weepiper (Nov 13, 2018)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 14, 2018)

I've no interest in the products offered by Evans Cycles, but Sports Direct charged me seven quid for a 48hr delivery of a pair of jeans earlier this year


----------



## hash tag (Nov 14, 2018)

If you will buy stuff from Mike Ashley 

I hear there are 4 more House of Frasers now earmarked for closure


----------



## mojo pixy (Nov 14, 2018)

Local bakery, wholemeal loaf 1.69
Co-op mini-super around the corner, wholemeal loaf 75p


----------



## weepiper (Nov 28, 2018)

Red Dog Music in administration. The Edinburgh store closed doors a couple of days ago

Red Dog Music goes into administration


----------



## cybershot (Dec 17, 2018)

Not sure Laura Ashley qualifies as 'high street' but quarter of it's stores to close, hundreds of jobs at risk

Laura Ashley to close 40 stores, putting hundreds of jobs at risk

In non high street news, online retailer ASOS issues a shock profit warning showing the high street famine is potentially spreading to online. People really are tightning the purses this year, which is no surprise with rising fuel and food bills and that little thing called Brexit.

Asos issues shock profit warning after November downturn


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2018)

more job losses on the high street then, town centre seems dead these days

I'm only buying two gifts, dog and mum. The rest is going on a big sack of peng ting so the money won't show up in retail balance sheets. Merry fucking christmas.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2018)

BUT, I understand Laura Ashley is expanding in China.
poor bloody staff


----------



## Riklet (Dec 17, 2018)

Shit news about Laura Ashley.  ASOS is well down in online sales too.  Could that point to less money being spent in general, not just on the high street?

Only bought wine so far and in no desire to spend loads on presents on my credit card like last year.  Apparently i'm not alone.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 17, 2018)

You are not alone.


----------



## andysays (Dec 22, 2018)

Can 'Super Saturday' save Christmas?


> Retailers hoping for a last-minute rush of Christmas shoppers on "Super Saturday" may be disappointed as trade looked set to peak before the weekend. Springboard said footfall rose by 10.4% between Thursday and Friday. Based on historical data when Christmas Day fell earlier in the week, Friday is the busiest day as people tend to use Saturday to travel.


But there's a ray of hope among the gloom


> Nevertheless, firms like Hammerson expect two million people to visit its shopping centres this weekend. "*There's always an uptick in footfall at this time of the year, as shoppers start to worry about whether online orders will be delivered in time for the big day," said Mark Bourgeois*, UK & Ireland managing director at Hammerson, whose shopping centres include the Bullring in Birmingham and London's Brent Cross.


----------



## pesh (Dec 22, 2018)

'yeah, we're operating all these shopping malls to fill in the gaps when Amazon forget to deliver something 2 days before Christmas' said Mr Bourgeois hopelessly.


----------



## Poi E (Dec 22, 2018)

Tend to agree with this article in that things are looking bad across retail generally. Britain’s Christmas closing down sale


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 28, 2018)

Looks like HMV is going down the pan for the second time.



> Music retailer HMV is on the verge of collapsing into administration, putting 2,200 jobs at risk, according to a report.The company is in last-ditch talks with suppliers and has filed a notice of intention to appoint administrators, Sky News reported.
> 
> It would mark the second time the company has collapsed, having gone into administration in 2013 amid rising competition from music streaming services. The one-time high street stalwart was bought by Hilco in a £50m deal, which saved 140 of its 230 stores. However, those remaining branches now face closure as HMV is once again in need of urgent financial support to keep going.



HMV on brink of collapse with thousands of jobs at risk, report says


----------



## cybershot (Dec 28, 2018)

Gutted if you’ve been given a gift voucher for Christmas.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 28, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Gutted if you’ve been given a gift voucher for Christmas.


All about cash-flow with these spivs, innit? Timing no coincidence.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Dec 28, 2018)

Most working class towns and city high streets are unable now to support either a book shop or record shop. The cultural desert of neo liberalism promises Poundland or fast food shops instead, shops that were once on the outskirts of the main action and cultural and social life of our centres.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 28, 2018)

HMV are back in the frame. Again. 120 shops, 2200 staff. No surprise as CD's etc are easily bought in line.
will save me a fortune I suppose if they do close


----------



## Poi E (Dec 28, 2018)

November was the worst footfall decline since 2009. UK retail suffers worst November footfall decline in 9 years - Retail Gazette

Boxing day sales footfall down for the third year in a row.

Shopping centres are down 6% year-on-year. Thank fuck-will stop the monstrosity going ahead in Croydon.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 28, 2018)

Re: HMV. I’m amazed they were saved last time. The new owners didn’t seem to actually do anything new though. Just more of the same. They shoulda maybe turned it into a more vinyl heavy outlet as that’s the only thing which seems to be growing now.


----------



## binka (Dec 28, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Re: HMV. I’m amazed they were saved last time. The new owners didn’t seem to actually do anything new though. Just more of the same. They shoulda maybe turned it into a more vinyl heavy outlet as that’s the only thing which seems to be growing now.



Hilco Capital - Wikipedia

If you look under 'notable projects' you can see they certainly have a type, I'm sure over the last 5 years they've wrung every last drop out of it and certainly made more than the £50m they paid for it.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 29, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Gutted if you’ve been given a gift voucher for Christmas.



Apparently they are still honouring gift vouchers (whilst the shops are still there, natch)

HMV 'to honour gift cards in administration'


----------



## killer b (Dec 29, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Re: HMV. I’m amazed they were saved last time. The new owners didn’t seem to actually do anything new though. Just more of the same. They shoulda maybe turned it into a more vinyl heavy outlet as that’s the only thing which seems to be growing now.


The vinyl sector for all its growth isn't anywhere near enough to support the amount of or size of shops HMV have.

There's a reason independent record shops only really exist in small units in the cheaper ends of cities now...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 29, 2018)

killer b said:


> The vinyl sector for all its growth isn't anywhere near enough to support the amount of or size of shops HMV have.
> 
> There's a reason independent record shops only really exist in small units in the cheaper ends of cities now...



Well quite, I’m just surprised they ran all the outlets as-is instead of offloading most and reconfiguring the business somehow.

Shudda just turned them all into vape and nail bars TBH.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 29, 2018)

Whilst vinyl sales are growing, vinyl only has a very small share of the music market, well under 10%.

Their problem was the massive drop in CD, DVD & blue-ray sales, predicted to drop a further 17% in 2019, because of streaming services.



> He pointed out HMV sold 31% of all physical copies of music in the UK in 2018 and 23% of all DVDs and Blu-rays - and its market share had grown month by month throughout the year.
> 
> But he added that the industry consensus was that the market would fall by another 17% during 2019 and therefore it would not be possible to continue to trade the business.
> 
> HMV 'to honour gift cards in administration'


----------



## killer b (Dec 29, 2018)

They actually did alright after restructuring the last time they nearly went under - I remember reading stories in around 2016 talking about how they'd returned to profit and were once again leading retailers in CDs and DVDs. 

I imagine the market in both of those has simply experienced an even steeper decline in the last year or so (especially DVDs).

Difficult to know what they could have done other than give up altogether - there's been an increasing amount of floor space given over to tech and memorabilia, toys and stuff (and a larger vinyl section too fwiw), so they have tried to diversify.


----------



## Poi E (Dec 29, 2018)

Must be some commercial landlords that will start to feel the pinch.


----------



## andysays (Dec 29, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well quite, I’m just surprised they ran all the outlets as-is instead of offloading most and reconfiguring the business somehow.
> 
> Shudda just turned them all into vape and nail bars TBH.


Re-branded as His Master's Vape and with an updated logo of a dog puffing on an e-cig...


----------



## killer b (Dec 29, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Must be some commercial landlords that will start to feel the pinch.


I dunno, reckon there's already been a significant amount of pinch in that sector already - our high street has actually recovered a bit the last few years, but there's still some big shops - notably the old BhS - which are empty, and a number - including the old HMV which downsized to a smaller premises in 2015 - which are now charity shops. 

There's definitely been a lot of money lost by the landlords the last 10 years - We just won't have heard about when they go under and get bought out by bigger landlords 'cause they aren't names...


----------



## Poi E (Dec 29, 2018)

Good point. A downturn will encourage consolidation of all these debt-laden landlords. Must make the banks a bit nervous.


----------



## weepiper (Jan 1, 2019)

Work in retail? Happy new year.

164,100 retail job losses expected in 2019 as high street woes set to worsen - Retail Gazette


----------



## ska invita (Jan 2, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Not the only one in London, there’s an independent foam shop towards Angel on Pentonville Rd, though god knows how they are still in business.


It's all in the merchandising


----------



## hash tag (Jan 13, 2019)

This doesn't affect me anymore, but still saddens me. A bike has to be tried before buying for fit, comfort and to compare to others How millennials have put a spoke in the wheels of Britain’s bicycle shops


----------



## NoXion (Jan 14, 2019)

hash tag said:


> This doesn't affect me anymore, but still saddens me. A bike has to be tried before buying for fit, comfort and to compare to others How millennials have put a spoke in the wheels of Britain’s bicycle shops



Don't bicycles have adjustable seats, handlebars, etc?


----------



## weepiper (Jan 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Don't bicycles have adjustable seats, handlebars, etc?


Most modern bikes don't have easily adjustable handlebar height because of the design of headsets these days. And a bike that you can adjust the seat height to a position where you can ride it can still be miles too big or small for you in terms of the reach to the bars.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 17, 2019)

Several bids are in for HMV, which seems like good news, until you read those rumoured to be bidding include Mike Ashley & Amazon. 



> Although the identity of the bidders is yet to be confirmed, discount chain BuyVia previously confirmed their interest – but a bid ultimately collapsed when it emerged that they had not contacted the administrators.
> 
> According to MusicWeek, others firms believed to be in the running include French retail chain Fnac and divisive Sports Direct owner Mike Ashley – who has previously got involved with ailing chains such as House Of Fraser and Debenhams.
> 
> But an Amazon shaped spanner could also be thrown in the works, amid rumours that the online giant is eyeing up the music chain.



Could HMV be saved after all?


----------



## cybershot (Jan 17, 2019)

Amazon bricks and mortar stores have been rumoured for years and never appeared, although in a day and age where just getting your item delivered is becoming a more stressful thing, even amazon lockers are now most of time always already full, I could kind of see it working. Stuff that's on display that you can look at and play with, that you order for delivery or come back and collect it two hours later. Perhaps even still get your distance selling regs rules. No real need for sales staff, would have loads of tablets to complete orders on, also have a shed load more lockers etc, and you have the store that's always been pitched but is probably now closer to reality of happening.

Most of HMVs stores are the perfect size for this sort of thing.

Obviously on one hand its great for convenience, and on the flip shit for workers.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 17, 2019)

They should take inspiration from Greggs, and start selling vegan products. Guaranteed punters through the door.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 22, 2019)

Patiserie Valerie officially in administration. Someone call Mike Ashley.

Patisserie Valerie falls into administration as bank talks fail


----------



## brogdale (Jan 22, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Patiserie Valerie officially in administration. Someone call Mike Ashley.
> 
> Patisserie Valerie falls into administration as bank talks fail


No surprise here; looked in their window the other day...£4+ for a bit of cake; kinnel.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 23, 2019)

Bad for the workers. But I don’t think anyone will be sad about this for too long. 

William Hill to close hundreds of betting shops


----------



## Badgers (Jan 23, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Patiserie Valerie officially in administration. Someone call Mike Ashley.
> 
> Patisserie Valerie falls into administration as bank talks fail


Hardly a shock. Was in a motorway services last week. McDonald's, KFC and other fast/convince food places with queues and tables busy. Patisserie Valerie had it's own huge restaurant and massive display of cakes but no customers. Huge services rent costs and why put it THERE rather than a high street in Fulham/Kensington/etc.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 23, 2019)

Santander to shut 140 branches


----------



## cybershot (Jan 23, 2019)

John Lewis to shut first store since 2006


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 23, 2019)

Weird DP thing there.


----------



## treelover (Jan 23, 2019)

Cole Brothers in Sheffield closing(John Lewis), its is huge. a lot of jobs and the heart of the city, online sales tax needed at least.

(update) reported on local radio, but not confirmed


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 23, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Santander to shut 140 branches



TBF, that's hardly surprising, as people are just not using bank branches much nowadays.

I am surprised that they are keeping both their branches in Worthing open. 

Thing is, most banks have an arrangement with the Post Office, so you can pay in & withdraw at your local Post Office, which seems the way to go.

Whilst my local RBS branch is closing, I can use my local sub-post office, which is open for longer hours & 7-days a week.


----------



## andysays (Jan 23, 2019)

treelover said:


> Cole Brothers in Sheffield closing(John Lewis), its is huge. a lot of jobs and the heart of the city, online sales tax needed at least.
> 
> (update) reported on local radio, but not confirmed


According to this


cybershot said:


> John Lewis to shut first store since 2006





> John Lewis has previously acknowledged the "challenges" facing the High Street in the current retail climate. However, it insisted it was not planning any other* closures at the moment.


* other than Knight & Lee outlet in Southsea in Hampshire, that is...


----------



## treelover (Jan 23, 2019)

Yes, fake news!

hopefully


----------



## cybershot (Feb 1, 2019)

Oddbins.

Again.

Oddbins wine chain calls in administrators


----------



## brogdale (Feb 1, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Oddbins.
> 
> Again.
> 
> Oddbins wine chain calls in administrators


honestly thought they were dead already


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 5, 2019)

> *Sunrise Records owner to keep 100 of chain’s 127 stores, safeguarding 1,500 jobs.*
> 
> A Canadian music entrepreneur has rescued HMV from collapse, taking over 100 shops and safeguarding 1,500 jobs.
> 
> ...



Great news that they knocked Ashley out of getting it, good news 100 shops are saved, shame about the 27 closing down.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 5, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Great news that they knocked Ashley out of getting it


While acknowledging I know nothing of Sunrise, this is almost always a positive.


cupid_stunt said:


> good news 100 shops are saved, shame about the 27 closing down.


Yeah, that, basically.

Although again, not sure how righteous I can get given I haven't bought anything from HMV in years.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 5, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> While acknowledging I know nothing of Sunrise, this is almost always a positive.



Apparently Sunrise took over HMV's Canadian stores, after they went tits-up last time around, so they have some experience of turning around failed HMV stores, hopefully that experience transfers to the UK's changing market.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 5, 2019)

Doug Putman seems to put a lot of faith in better vinyl selections being the answer to HMV's problems. Time will tell I guess.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Great news that they knocked Ashley out of getting it, good news 100 shops are saved, shame about the 27 closing down.



The 27 have been announced according to HMV store closures detailed as:

Ayr, Bath, Bluewater, Bristol Cribbs, Chichester, Exeter Princesshay, Fopp Bristol, Fopp Glasgow Byres, Fopp Manchester, Fopp Oxford, Glasgow Braehead, Guernsey, Hereford, Manchester Trafford, Merry Hill, Oxford Street, Peterborough Queensgate, Plymouth Drake Circus, Reading, Sheffield Meadowhall, Southport, Thurrock, Tunbridge Wells, Uxbridge, Watford, Westfield London and Wimbledon.

according to local news sources, the above 27 are already closed as of this morning.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 5, 2019)

Oxford Street. That's their flagship.

The rents must be a pretty penny though.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 5, 2019)

Good to see Worthing will survive.

Although, I admit to not having been in it for bloody years.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 5, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Good to see Worthing will survive.
> 
> Although, I admit to not having been in it for bloody years.


yeh i thought you'd been out of it for a while


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Oxford Street. That's their flagship.
> 
> The rents must be a pretty penny though.



They'll be nothing left on Oxford Street soon other than people selling tatty souvenirs


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## brogdale (Feb 5, 2019)

cybershot said:


> They'll be nothing left on Oxford Street soon other than people selling tatty souvenirs


How very emblematic.


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 5, 2019)

Pulling out of Westfield too, Cribbs Causeway in Bristol, Trafford Centre, Manchester, and the Oracle in Reading. Definitely slashing them mall rents.

I wonder if the closure of Wimbledon means the HMV Curzon Cinema will now go?


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 5, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> I wonder if the closure of Wimbledon means the HMV Curzon Cinema will now go?



That's a joint venture between HMV & Curzon Cinemas, so if this deal doesn't include the cinema, I guess Curzon will take full control.


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## hash tag (Feb 5, 2019)

Very pleased to see HMV survive, for now, but Oxford St 
I am saddened by this, but very very sad for the staff, the staff were great, very knowledgeable, friendly and helpful.
Now, where is my nearest branch and what about my points?


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## hash tag (Feb 5, 2019)

Returning back to the early question about the high street generally, I am coming round to the opinion that it is finished as I knew it.
Local and very well to do shopping streets include Northcote Road, Fulham Road and Putney High Street and they all have their 
share of vacant premises. Same goes for Covent Garden I saw last night. 
The world is changing and I am not sure it is for the better 
I like shops, browsing, chatting to staff.......


----------



## weepiper (Feb 5, 2019)

At last, some good news:

Brighthouse to close 30 shops and cut jobs


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 6, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Pulling out of Westfield too, Cribbs Causeway in Bristol, Trafford Centre, Manchester, and the Oracle in Reading. Definitely slashing them mall rents.



Might also be that if they’re going to specialise in vinyl stuff then that’s probably not the sort of thing your average mall shopper is into, more one for the city centre hipster crowd.


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## cybershot (Feb 6, 2019)

The ones closing are ones  where they couldn’t re-negotiate rent. So I don’t think there’s any business plan behind those closures other than reducing the rent bill. Plenty of malls left in the 100 that survive.


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## hash tag (Feb 6, 2019)

Does anyone know which ones will remain?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 6, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Does anyone know which ones will remain?



All those that are not closing.


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## Reno (Feb 6, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Does anyone know which ones will remain?


A friend on Facebook posted a list with all the branches which are closing a couple of day ago. Can't be bothered to trawl through Facebook, I'm sure a quick google should get you there.


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## chilango (Feb 6, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Does anyone know which ones will remain?


Which HMV stores are going to close?


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## hash tag (Feb 6, 2019)

Yes, thank you chilango, I know most stores near me are closing, I am trying to find the nearest that will stay open!


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 6, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Yes, thank you chilango, I know most stores near me are closing, I am trying to find the nearest that will stay open!



HMV Store Finder | hmv.com


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## newbie (Feb 7, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Returning back to the early question about the high street generally, I am coming round to the opinion that it is finished as I knew it.
> Local and very well to do shopping streets include Northcote Road, Fulham Road and Putney High Street and they all have their
> share of vacant premises. Same goes for Covent Garden I saw last night.
> The world is changing and I am not sure it is for the better
> I like shops, browsing, chatting to staff.......


well... it depends on your perspective really doesn't it?  I still think of Northcote Rd as a grotty street market selling even worse quality tatties than the stalls in Brixton, with dingy shops and down at heel punters. As a young community activist I briefly tried to help people in the impoverished local streets.  Every time I go there I'm still unnerved by the transformation into '_very well to do_' Nappy Valley.  Same with Fulham Road, a right dump for most of its length, though less so with Putney.  I worked portering in the old Covent Garden market and then knew people who squatted there after it closed and became semi derelict.

My point being that you're noting the passing of a brief phase, one in which posh money has colonised formerly working class areas, with all sorts of resultant gentrification and social exclusion. The extent to which those changes, and the shops and shopping that exemplify them, are a good thing is a matter of some doubt, at least in my mind.  Of course, a brief glimpse at the architecture reveals that those places were built for the monied classes and that perhaps it was their decline in prosperity that was the exception, not subsequently regaining it.

We're all prey to nostalgia, but it doesn't necessarily reveal much except about ourselves.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 7, 2019)

I just can't think why I'd ever go into an HMV these days.

Yet, back in the 90s I could spend a whole afternoon just hanging out at the listening posts, or playing 12" house records on the decks, or just browsing. I used to make specific trips into town just to go to HMV. It really just shows how much the internet and streaming has disrupted everything.

It's sad because I pass the Oxford St store every day on my way to work and I like the decor on the front with the neon pink and the Nipper the dog logo. But it's just full of plastic and merchanside that I have no interest in buying. Now, if 12" records came down a bit in price and they replaced all their CDs with vinyl, and started specialising in dance music again, then I'd have a reason to go in.


----------



## newbie (Feb 7, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> then I'd have a reason to go in


Would you though?  There are a number of vinyl shops in Soho, just round the corner. Looking back from (I'm guessing, please don't take offence) your 40s to what you did in your 20s is all very well but. 

Droves of 20-somethings now don't spend their time listening to artifacts in shops, although history documentaries show people wearing peculiar clothes doing it.  Just the other day we had to explain what a 7" was, what 45rpm meant, to a young 'un who looked at us like we were discussing a typewriter or Penny Farthing or something.  

I know plenty of people who appear convinced that what they grew up with is so superior to any modern equivalent, despite all the evidence... analogue watches, cars you can work on yourself, feet & inches, FM radio, chisels 'made in Sheffield' with wooden handles, .... I'd add vinyl but that causes more arguments than other examples ... valve amps, books, British bikes (well, ok that's a bit farfetched), tweed jackets, fountain pens, open fires, Marathons and Curlie Wurlies, Tiswas and so on....  the corner shopkeeper who knew all their customers...  

This thread appears to be adding chainstores to that list.  

Maybe the relatively short age of bland, identikit highstreet shopping (interleaved in better off places with the independents we're all supposed to value so much) really was a golden age and, as with streaming music or cars that just work, having a choice of everything (not what the shop buyer chose for you) then placing an order at midnight to be delivered a day or two later is a change too far.  Maybe.


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## xenon (Feb 7, 2019)

Used to buy stuff in the Bristol Fop one, when I was a student. Think this was before HMV had it. Actually I think it was called Replay Records then... Why I stopped. First the ease of being able to find what I want, in stock and browse on the internet. Then later, ditching physical media altogether in favour of purchasing downloads / streaming. 

Bootique type record shops, well, I don't know if they're thriving but there are a few. Rough Trade shop here sells books and has DJ nights. Another place has a bar as well, in his tiny shop. I spose it could work if HMV go more into specialising in particular genres, enthusiastic music geek staff on hand, stick a coffee bar in there too or something.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> HMV Store Finder | hmv.com


local press woman was saying Kettering branch is saved. My cup runneth over. Good that people there are still in a job tho.
Corby is going all out to rejuvenate its town centre apparently, reducing rents and organizing stuff. Kettering, eh not so much. It was never exactly a palace to mammon anyway but now its even quieter than ever.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 7, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> local press woman was saying Kettering branch is saved. My cup runneth over. Good that people there are still in a job tho.
> Corby is going all out to rejuvenate its town centre apparently, reducing rents and organizing stuff. Kettering, eh not so much. It was never exactly a palace to mammon anyway but now its even quieter than ever.


i've always wondered, what's kettering like?


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 7, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Oxford Street. That's their flagship.



I don't get this 'flagship store' thing. They're chains, all their shops everywhere are the same. Nobody from Liverpool or Durham is going to their local HMV because they've heard such great things about the famous one in Oxford Street.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i've always wondered, what's kettering like?


its ok. Small anonymous market town, one of dozens in the county.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't get this 'flagship store' thing. They're chains, all their shops everywhere are the same. Nobody from Liverpool or Durham is going to their local HMV because they've heard such great things about the famous one in Oxford Street.


it's holed below the waterline now


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## danny la rouge (Feb 7, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Fopp Glasgow Byres


Very sad about that: I’ve known and used that shop (and its predecessor position just around the corner) since it opened in 1981. Other record shops have come and gone, but Fopp Byres Road has been there for me throughout the decades. I used to live around the corner from it. It’s where a large proportion of my music collection comes from. It managed to retain its character and depth of stock even after the HMV buy out, and I have a great fondness for it. It’s been a huge part of my cultural life. Visits to Byres Road just won’t be the same.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 7, 2019)

One that may please some people depending on your views.

Your Move, Reeds Rains staff face redundancy as 43 branches are closed


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 7, 2019)

cybershot said:


> One that may please some people depending on your views.
> 
> Your Move, Reeds Rains staff face redundancy as 43 branches are closed





> The company has blamed the slimming down of the two chains indirectly on Brexit



Well that's bollocks, I reckon it's more to do with growing online agents taking market share.


----------



## xenon (Feb 7, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> its ok. Small anonymous market town, one of dozens in the county.


And host to JLB's conference where Project Zeus was unveiled. You can't forget that...


----------



## Poi E (Feb 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Well that's bollocks, I reckon it's more to do with growing online agents taking market share.



Why, truly, do estate agents need an office? Listings online, meet at the property, finalise electronically.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 7, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Santander to shut 140 branches



That news reduces the total number of bank branches in the entire county I live in to...two. OK, it's the smallest county in the country, but it's still 50,000+ people.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 7, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> That news reduces the total number of bank branches in the entire county I live in to...two. OK, it's the smallest county in the country, but it's still 50,000+ people.



I wouldn't be surprised if the concept of bank branches eventually ceases to exist and all banking services are effectively incorporated into supermarkets or post offices.


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## cupid_stunt (Feb 7, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> That news reduces the total number of bank branches in the entire county I live in to...two. OK, it's the smallest county in the country, but it's still 50,000+ people.



What of total bank branches? Surely BoS, RBS, and perhaps others have branches in Clackmannanshire?

But, like skyscraper101 says, bank branches will in time disappear completely. 

My local RBS branch has closed, I don't care as I've been using my local sub-Post Office for sometime, it's more convenient, with free on-street parking and longer opening hours, 7-days a week.


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## cybershot (Feb 7, 2019)

Hmm, but branches are important if you need to prove who you are for some reason when something goes wrong online. Applying for a money transfer from my credit card online with my bank, resulted in them asking me to go into branch with ID, no idea why and then a rep having to phone it through. Was probably a glitch and things have probably improved in the past 3 years but otherwise I'd probably have been having to phone a pay day loan company  that day if I couldn't get to the branch!


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## hash tag (Feb 7, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> local press woman was saying Kettering branch is saved. My cup runneth over. Good that people there are still in a job tho.
> Corby is going all out to rejuvenate its town centre apparently, reducing rents and organizing stuff. Kettering, eh not so much. It was never exactly a palace to mammon anyway but now its even quieter than ever.



With the closure of the steel works, I suspect Corby is a shadow of it's former self.



SpookyFrank said:


> I don't get this 'flagship store' thing. They're chains, all their shops everywhere are the same. Nobody from Liverpool or Durham is going to their local HMV because they've heard such great things about the famous one in Oxford Street.



Oxford Street is the site of the very original branch, not to mentioned it used to brand itself as the biggest record shop in Europe or the world!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> *I don't get this 'flagship store' thing.* They're chains, all their shops everywhere are the same. Nobody from Liverpool or Durham is going to their local HMV because they've heard such great things about the famous one in Oxford Street.





Let me help you.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> What of total bank branches? Surely BoS, RBS, and perhaps others have branches in Clackmannanshire?



Once the Santander closes there'll just be a BoS and a TSB left.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Let me help you.



I understand what it means in corporate-speke I just don't know why ordinary punters are supposed to give a shit. I also don't understand why people who aren't getting paid by (insert company here) would use the phrase 'flagship store' as if it's a real thing with actual meaning in the world. It's not.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 7, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> That news reduces the total number of bank branches in the entire county I live in to...two. OK, it's the smallest county in the country, but it's still 50,000+ people.


Jeez. I lived in Alloa in the mid 80s, and remember all the banks and many building societies represented in Alloa itself, not to mention Dollar, Alva, Tillicoultry, Tullibody, Menstrie, Clackmannan itself, Sauchie even.

Surely there’s a bank in Dollar, no?


----------



## pesh (Feb 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I understand what it means in corporate-speke I just don't know why ordinary punters are supposed to give a shit. I also don't understand why people who aren't getting paid by (insert company here) would use the phrase 'flagship store' as if it's a real thing with actual meaning in the world. It's not.


Chicken Cottage's flagship store in Tooting has a bassbin under the counter and plays a lot of speed garage. 
well worth the trip.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I understand what it means in corporate-speke I just don't know why ordinary punters are supposed to give a shit. I also don't understand why people who aren't getting paid by (insert company here) would use the phrase 'flagship store' as if it's a real thing with actual meaning in the world. It's not.



You have clearly never visited the Oxford Street branch, it's massive. To claim 'all their shops everywhere are the same', is just showing your ignorance of why even 'Joe Public' would describe it as their 'flagship store'.

The Oxford Street branch is another world, compared with my local branch.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 7, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Surely there’s a bank in Dollar, no?



You'd think so! But no. The Clydesdale was the last one, and it shut a couple of years ago.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> You have clearly never visited the Oxford Street branch, it's massive. To claim 'all their shops everywhere are the same', is just showing your ignorance of why even 'Joe Public' would describe it as their 'flagship store'.
> 
> The Oxford Street branch is another world, compared with my local branch.



You really do love the taste of corporate ringpiece don't you?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> You really do love the taste of corporate ringpiece don't you?



Stop being a plank, Frank.

Back in the days, it was a proper treat going up to Londinium and visiting the Oxford Street branches of both HMV & the Virgin mega-store, you simply couldn't compare the experience to visiting a local small town/bog standard HMV or Virgin outlet, totally different worlds.  

Hence why they were 'flagship stores', your claim that all branches are the same is total nonsense.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Stop being a plank, Frank.
> 
> Back in the days, it was a proper treat going up to Londinium and visiting the Oxford Street branches of both HMV & the Virgin mega-store, you simply couldn't compare the experience to visiting a local small town/bog standard HMV or Virgin outlet, totally different worlds.



And after that I suppose it was off to the footwear section at Harrods to lick an altogether better class of boot from those available in the provinces.


----------



## Poi E (Feb 7, 2019)

The boots in the provinces are better (Northamptonshire, particularly.)


----------



## weepiper (Feb 8, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> Very sad about that: I’ve known and used that shop (and its predecessor position just around the corner) since it opened in 1981. Other record shops have come and gone, but Fopp Byres Road has been there for me throughout the decades. I used to live around the corner from it. It’s where a large proportion of my music collection comes from. It managed to retain its character and depth of stock even after the HMV buy out, and I have a great fondness for it. It’s been a huge part of my cultural life. Visits to Byres Road just won’t be the same.


Fopp Byres Road is staying after all

'Iconic' music store saved from closure


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 8, 2019)

weepiper said:


> Fopp Byres Road is staying after all
> 
> 'Iconic' music store saved from closure


That’s cheered me up no end. Great news.


----------



## mojo pixy (Feb 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i've always wondered, what's kettering like?





DotCommunist said:


> its ok. Small anonymous market town, one of dozens in the county.





xenon said:


> And host to JLB's conference where Project Zeus was unveiled. You can't forget that...



Swings, slides, roundabouts etc embossed with the maker's mark _Wicksteed Kettering_ improved childhoods around the nation back in the day. Good work on that


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> Swings, slides, roundabouts etc embossed with the maker's mark _Wicksteed Kettering_ improved childhoods around the nation back in the day. Good work on that


Wicksteed Kettering was an eighteenth century German highwayman who plied his trade between Augsburg and Stuttgart


----------



## mojo pixy (Feb 9, 2019)

He must have made it to Gosport then because our park had his toys in it. Unless they were once confiscated by the navy and donated to local urchins.

Could be, the philanthropy of the Royal Navy is legendary and their good works literally uncountable


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> He must have made it to Gosport then because our park had his toys in it. Unless they were once confiscated by the navy and donated to local urchins.
> 
> Could be, the philanthropy of the Royal Navy is legendary and their good works literally uncountable


He is a sort of Robin Hood figure in Germany because when he was in his cups he would buy toys for children out of his swag


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 9, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> Swings, slides, roundabouts etc embossed with the maker's mark _Wicksteed Kettering_ improved childhoods around the nation back in the day. Good work on that



There’s a massive park in Kettering called Wickstead Park that had loads and loads of their play equipment, all the big stuff. Visiting there was an occasional treat if I was staying at my cousins in Northampton.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 3, 2019)

Boots warning of store closures

Boots warns of possible store closures


----------



## yield (Apr 9, 2019)

Debenhams is taken over by lenders as Mike Ashley loses £150m stake 
Tue 9 Apr 2019


> Debenhams has been taken over by its lenders, wiping out shareholders including Mike Ashley’s Sports Direct and paving the way for store closures that put thousands of jobs at risk.
> 
> The department store group’s 165 outlets will continue to trade under a pre-pack deal which only affects its listed holding company.
> 
> A letter to shareholders posted on the website of FTI Consulting said its executives Simon Kirkhope and Andrew Johnson had been appointed joint administrators of Debenhams. It said the group’s two principle operating companies had immediately been sold to a new company owned by Debenhams’ lenders.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 9, 2019)

yield said:


> Debenhams is taken over by lenders as Mike Ashley loses £150m stake
> Tue 9 Apr 2019



Very sad for those working for them facing redundancy. 

Fucking funny Ashley has lost £150m.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Apr 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Fucking funny Ashley has lost £150m.



Definitely a bit of good news.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 9, 2019)

yield said:


> Debenhams is taken over by lenders as Mike Ashley loses £150m stake
> Tue 9 Apr 2019





cupid_stunt said:


> Very sad for those working for them facing redundancy.
> 
> Fucking funny Ashley has lost £150m.





farmerbarleymow said:


> Definitely a bit of good news.



Just written off against corporation tax on his other interests. 

Our schools, roads and NHS are the ones who've lost £150m today.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 26, 2019)

One of the 22 Debs closing is the one in Wadsworth. Seems like its only been open for 5 minutes. I guess the redundancy won't be so great and there may even be break clauses in the lease.

Oddbins is still in administration 2 months down the line.
the poor staff, must be awful.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 26, 2019)

hash tag said:


> One of the 22 Debs closing is the one in Wadsworth. Seems like its only been open for 5 minutes. I guess the redundancy won't be so great and there may even be break clauses in the lease.
> 
> Oddbins is still in administration 2 months down the line.
> the poor staff, must be awful.



Wimbledon, Walton-on-Thames, Staines, Guildford...

All very prosperous areas, goes to show how incompetent the management has been if they fucked it in those towns.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Apr 27, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Wimbledon, Walton-on-Thames, Staines, Guildford...
> 
> All very prosperous areas, goes to show how incompetent the management has been if they fucked it in those towns.



Its the ridiculous rents in these places meaning they’re not profitable. One of my clients is a Debenhams supplier - several million quid turnover a year just on that account. Yet they’re not stocked in a single store - its all online on the Debenhams website. Its the same for every bricks n mortar chain with a website now, theres more choice online, so why go into town?   I havent spent anything in a department store for over a decade myself. I think retail will survive but boring ass department stores (which Debenhams is) are over.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Apr 27, 2019)

And I can totally understand Ashley wanting to buy Debenhams - for the website (which must make a fortune) and customer database.


----------



## mx wcfc (Apr 27, 2019)

Tend to agree with a lot said above.  I just despair at the way the department stores go about things.  Sometimes I have to wear a suit for work.  I bought my last one at House of Fraser.  On entering, you are met with a barricade of perfume and make up, behind which there is a maze of similar stands.  It doesn't intimidate me - I know where men's work clothes are and walk through, but the whole frontage says "not for men".  I buy my work shirts online and my work chinos online (simply because shops don't stock my size in either) but I'm not going to spunk out on a suit without trying it on.  But House of Fraser do not ask me to go in.  They say "go away". Debenhams is the same. So is John Lewis.  Marketeers will say that women spend more in shops, which may be the case, but the strategy is clearly failing.  There are clothes shops in the same indoor mall that say "Guys, this is where you buy your work clothes".


----------



## muscovyduck (Apr 27, 2019)

I heard the Debenhams up by me does the whole minimum wage zero hour thing so not shocked by this development


----------



## Don Troooomp (Apr 27, 2019)

People buy cars
People want to park their cars close to shops
Town centres are going pedestrianised
People can't park their cars
Out of town shopping centres and malls have big car parks
People go to where they can park their cars
Local authorities complain town centres are dead


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Apr 27, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


> Tend to agree with a lot said above.  I just despair at the way the department stores go about things.  Sometimes I have to wear a suit for work.  I bought my last one at House of Fraser.  On entering, you are met with a barricade of perfume and make up, behind which there is a maze of similar stands.  It doesn't intimidate me - I know where men's work clothes are and walk through, but the whole frontage says "not for men".  I buy my work shirts online and my work chinos online (simply because shops don't stock my size in either) but I'm not going to spunk out on a suit without trying it on.  But House of Fraser do not ask me to go in.  They say "go away". Debenhams is the same. So is John Lewis.  Marketeers will say that women spend more in shops, which may be the case, but the strategy is clearly failing.  There are clothes shops in the same indoor mall that say "Guys, this is where you buy your work clothes".



At least the Debenhams here in Manchester has a corner entrance with an escalator straight down to menswear, so you can avoid the poisonous perfume miasma elsewhere on the ground floor.  I bought some jeans in Debs a few years back, but think that is the only time I've bought anything from them possibly ever.  

They're closing the store in my Stockton on Tees, my hometown, which isn't a surprise.  M & S closed not that long ago and it won't be long before they only exist in major towns or cities.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 27, 2019)

I’ve literally walked into Debenhams and almost immediately walked out and thrown up on the pavement because of that awful perfume smell. It’s vile. Must have had some sort of stomach bug anyway but that was the trigger (it was also late on Christmas Eve afternoon when town was full of pissheads so I got lots of dirty looks and tutting from passers by who assumed I’d been on the lunchtime sauce after finishing work for the year and not someone in significant pain/distress).


----------



## a_chap (Apr 27, 2019)

I'm in the minority because I went to Debenham's this week!

I looking to buy some handkerchiefs and Debenhams is one of the few department stores where you can be reasonably certain they will stock them. After braving the nausea of the perfume counter entrance (Dogsauce and mx wcfc are entirely correct in their loathing of this) I found a range of gentlemen's handkerchiefs.

But then I went to M&S where I bought a pack 50p cheaper. Debenhams is doomed...


----------



## hash tag (Apr 27, 2019)

Just announced that Cotswold are entering in to a CVA. This is one of my fave stores and my go to for buying trainers and was looking forward to the day when I have to go back for new pair or two 
Cotswold Outdoor will close branches across UK after profits tumble


----------



## Poi E (Apr 27, 2019)

Always get my boot socks there. Got to inspect before buying.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 28, 2019)

The Cotswold group also includes Cycle Surgery/Runners World etc. and several of those are also closing.

A pattern seems to be that for a lot of places it’s unsustainable rents that are fucking them over. Think there needs to be a general correction in commercial rents (as well as residential) as it’s not allowing society to function.


----------



## mojo pixy (Apr 28, 2019)

Rent and proprty prices are just in a world of their own these days, and neither seem to have any connection to the prices of any other goods or services (other than dragging _all_ prices up as everyone struggles to pay their fucking rent month by month)


----------



## Poi E (Apr 28, 2019)

Being a commercial landlord will become much less profitable as footfall goes down and more people start working remotely.


----------



## mojo pixy (Apr 28, 2019)

Landlords will always find a way to keep money coming in. If shops don't pay, turn it into flats... It's been happening in the suburbs for decades, the high st is bound to follow in the end.


----------



## ska invita (May 13, 2019)

Am I reading this right? Profits of "only" 300 million in a year is enough justification for corporate umbrella group to cut jobs and stores?
Boots profits plunge as high-street slump hits chemist chain


----------



## Poi E (May 14, 2019)

Treated myself to an M&S ready meal the other day. Boy have they gone downhill. First their underwear and now the food. They'll be hitting the wall soon.


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## hash tag (May 14, 2019)

I thought M&S saw food as the way forward as well. Mt local Oddbins has now closed but there is another one close by which is still going; for now.
What is not nice in some respects is to see HMV opening up again. I am guessing the stores closed down, the staff got laid off and now the stores
are having to employ people, I have seen adverts for staff at newly opened stores. Not good for the staff laid off. Also, they are not yet back on line.


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## Sprocket. (May 15, 2019)

I saw HMV in Doncaster have moved back into the premises they occupied for years before moving into the Frenchgate Mall. I hope the previous staff get re-employed.


----------



## hash tag (May 15, 2019)

It was HMV Doncaster that I saw advertising for staff 
I guess/hope existing staff have new jobs elsewhere and were offered their jobs back.


----------



## T & P (May 21, 2019)

I'm sorry to break such tragic news to everyone, but Jamie Oliver's restaurant empire is no more....

Jamie Oliver chain collapse costs 1,000 jobs

ETA: never mind, I see the tragic news was previously reported in the Jamie Oliver thread...


----------



## hash tag (May 21, 2019)

Sad for staff.


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## hash tag (May 28, 2019)

Boots is a bit of a turn up 200 Boots stores at risk of closure under huge restructuring plans


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 28, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Boots is a bit of a turn up 200 Boots stores at risk of closure under huge restructuring plans



Tbf, 2400 stores in the UK is a hell of a lot, seems that the 200 to close are where there is already another store in the same town, still shite for the staff.

But they are very old fashioned, like M&S, why do you go in there? I go in to Boots for crisps on my way to work, can’t think of anything else I’d buy there, especially as there’s a Super Drug directly opposite which is cheaper for razors etc...


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## hash tag (May 28, 2019)

Prescriptions? Over counter meds?


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## cybershot (May 28, 2019)

I only go in Boots to get my Nan vouchers at Christmas as it's what she asks for, as you say, very old fashioned store, everything is cheaper elsewhere. 

Think the only thing I've purchased from there that's no prescription or gift voucher related is the meal deal!


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## Dogsauce (May 29, 2019)

It used to be the place (big stores only I guess) where you could get newly released games consoles when other more obvious shops had sold out, an ex gf got one of her Nintendos there.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Prescriptions? Over counter meds?



There is a pharmacy attached to my GP surgery. Sainsbury's does cheaper over the counter meds than Boots...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2019)

WH Smith ranked 'worst' retailer again



> WH Smith has been ranked the UK's worst High Street retailer for the second year in a row, according to a Which? survey of 7,700 shoppers.
> 
> The poll, which covered 100 retailers, rated the chain "very poor" for value for money and in-store experience...
> 
> It is the ninth year in a row that WH Smith has been ranked in the bottom two of the survey.




And WH Smith responds:



> This survey... is neither statistically relevant nor meaningful relative to our loyal customer base," a spokeswoman said.



Can't see them sticking around much longer, other than at stations and airports...


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2019)

Smaller Boots branches seem chronically understaffed - it’s the go to place for razor blade shoplifting


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## Poi E (May 29, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> There is a pharmacy attached to my GP surgery. Sainsbury's does cheaper over the counter meds than Boots...



Looking at the stores of late it is clear that there is a lot of deferred maintenance. Not too many more years, I suspect.


----------



## newbie (May 29, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> WH Smith ranked 'worst' retailer again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're more or less local monopolies for big parts of their offering, aren't they?  Not sure I see why people will stop buying the stuff they sell. You might get this or that at some other local shop, but they're the only place that will reliably provide the range.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2019)

newbie said:


> They're more or less local monopolies for big parts of their offering, aren't they?  Not sure I see why people will stop buying the stuff they sell. You might get this or that at some other local shop, but they're the only place that will reliably provide the range.



Not sure. Stationary my daughter gets all hers from Amazon, books either Amazon or Waterstones. Massive chocolate bars, maybe? What else do they sell?


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## TopCat (May 29, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not sure. Stationary my daughter gets all hers from Amazon, books either Amazon or Waterstones. Massive chocolate bars, maybe? What else do they sell?


Magazines about trains


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## newbie (May 29, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not sure. Stationary my daughter gets all hers from Amazon, books either Amazon or Waterstones. Massive chocolate bars, maybe? What else do they sell?


Quite a range of relatively low price stuff that people buy while out and about. Of course everything can be ordered online, if it's important enough to wade through the choices and deal with the delivery, but that doesn't really replace opportunistic shopping for low value wants.   I'm not defending them particularly, I probably use them 2 or 3 times a year, but I suspect everyone else does that too (along with some frequent flyers) for their magazines, paperbacks, cards and stationary and so on.  Their shops are seldom empty when I go in, that's sufficient to keep them going.  £65m half year profit says they're not that unhealthy.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 29, 2019)

WHSmith has an increasing number of branches with Post Offices in them, our main PO is moving into WHS, helping to increase the total to over 200.


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## hash tag (May 29, 2019)

WHS core business is newspapers, both in heavy decline. Most of their shops are miserable places to visit lately. I suspect their long term future lies in airports and stations as mentioned. Boots will also have a place at stations and airports.


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## clicker (May 29, 2019)

Boots and WHS are two shops I now seldom use at all. Years ago they did provide what others didn't. Boots for toiletries etc and always WHS for cards and stationery. Now they have so much competition and seem over priced. Card and stationery shops are ten a penny and you're never more than six feet away from a Superdrug.


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## hash tag (May 29, 2019)

I can't remember ever going in to a superdrug. They don't dispense prescriptions?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I can't remember ever going in to a superdrug. They don't dispense prescriptions?



Not a pharmacy, but they do sell all the other crap that Boots do and do it much more cheaply than Boots do.


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## planetgeli (May 29, 2019)

Boots are an anachronism aren’t they? A throwback to the past where dominating the high street meant having a large visible presence. I can’t think of many small Boots stores anywhere, they’ve always been a literal giant of the High Street with overheads to match their prices. I’m amazed they’ve survived this long when there is so much competition for what they sell both online and on the High Street.


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## JuanTwoThree (May 29, 2019)

Slightly gushy article about Primark

Cheap and cheerful: why there’s more to Primark’s success than you thought

which makes some interesting points, like that they keep packaging down and that people really shop there rather than mooch in and out


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## Pickman's model (May 29, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not a pharmacy, but they do sell all the other crap that Boots do and do it much more cheaply than Boots do.


they do dispense prescriptions in dalston and i suppose at other branches


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## MickiQ (May 29, 2019)

The only WH Smith's I have been in for years are the ones in the airports so once a year tops, all I buy is water and choccy and Mrs Q always seems to get these ridiculous glossy magazines that she normally never would.
I use Boots a bit more, my opticians is Boots and I tend to occasionally buy stuff in them if I go into Derby (the nearest big city).
Normally get my prescriptions and most other medical related stuff from the local village pharmacy (which is part of a chain just a smaller one than Boots)


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## planetgeli (May 29, 2019)

My local pharmacy has signs up saying “experts in medicines, not meal deals” which I think is a pretty neat unsubtle dig at Boots.


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## ricbake (May 29, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I can't remember ever going in to a superdrug. They don't dispense prescriptions?





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not a pharmacy, but they do sell all the other crap that Boots do and do it much more cheaply than Boots do.



Superdrug in Brixton has a pharmacist and dispenses prescriptions

Superdrug parent company also own Savers


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## clicker (May 29, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I can't remember ever going in to a superdrug. They don't dispense prescriptions?


The 3 nearest to me all do.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (May 29, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> they do dispense prescriptions in dalston and i suppose at other branches





ricbake said:


> Superdrug in Brixton has a pharmacist and dispenses prescriptions
> 
> Superdrug parent company also own Savers





clicker said:


> The 3 nearest to me all do.



I stand corrected.


----------



## Poi E (May 29, 2019)

So bye bye boots.


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## Lord Camomile (May 29, 2019)

These Boots are made for walking, etc...


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## kebabking (May 29, 2019)

We went into a large WH Smiths today - the kids got some gift cards for Christmas and wanted to spend them - they got some pens, sketchbook, couple of books etc..

When we got to the till, we were asked if we wanted any scratch cards or lottery tickets.


----------



## hash tag (May 29, 2019)

I got my last few pairs of Specs from Boots (Mrs Tag also). staff are normally excellent.


----------



## LDC (May 29, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> WH Smith ranked 'worst' retailer again
> 
> Can't see them sticking around much longer, other than at stations and airports...



Yup, I think they're in the line to go bust soon. Their 'loyal customer base' is dying out I'd think. The one in the large city centre where I live is starting to look how Woolworths did in the time before it went under; shit book selection, some sweets, terrible selection of magazines that nobody buys, crap sandwiches, and over-priced stationary. They always seem to be pushing some deal and voucher scheme too.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 30, 2019)

ricbake said:


> Superdrug in Brixton has a pharmacist and dispenses prescriptions
> 
> Superdrug parent company also own Savers



I was going to say Savers is to Superdrug as Superdrug is to Boots, i.e. same stuff much cheaper. Hadn’t realised they were the same company, might explain why the Superdrug where I was living in Leeds became a Savers without me noticing Superdrug shutting down. Has a bit more of a Poundland vibe.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 30, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Looking at the stores of late it is clear that there is a lot of deferred maintenance. Not too many more years, I suspect.



WHSmiths or Sainsbury’s?  Kind of applies to both possibly, my local city centre big Sainsbury’s is a right toilet nowadays.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 30, 2019)

Some bloke on LBC yesterday who runs a small business supplying ear drops said Boots are the worst for payment. Even worse since they were taken over by Walgreens. Apparently they have 105 days payment terms  and they gave themselves a discount if they pay within that!

He fucked them off for Amazon and now gets paid on time and has seen significant growth in sales.


----------



## Poi E (May 30, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> WHSmiths or Sainsbury’s?  Kind of applies to both possibly, my local city centre big Sainsbury’s is a right toilet nowadays.



Fair point. Many big chains places are looking right ropey. Walked out of the Sainsbury's in Addiscombe as the floor was so cracked and filthy.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 30, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Some bloke on LBC yesterday who runs a small business supplying ear drops said Boots are the worst for payment. Even worse since they were taken over by Walgreens. Apparently they have 105 days payment terms  and they gave themselves a discount if they pay within that!
> 
> He fucked them off for Amazon and now gets paid on time and has seen significant growth in sales.



Companies that do that are scum and deserve to go under. It's no coincidence that Richer Sounds, Primark etc. are doing well, they treat their staff and suppliers with respect. All the companies that I deal with who do likewise seem to be successful too. That seems to be a fundamental of business that some folk has forgotten in their lust for pure short-term profit.


----------



## Poi E (May 30, 2019)

I've worked with idiots in procurement always trying to squeeze the vendors, and when the shit hits the fan and extra help is needed they wonder why there's no latitude in the relationship.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 30, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Companies that do that are scum and deserve to go under. It's no coincidence that Richer Sounds, *Primark* etc. are doing well, they treat their staff and suppliers with respect. All the companies that I deal with who do likewise seem to be successful too. That seems to be a fundamental of business that some folk has forgotten in their lust for pure short-term profit.



Aren't Primark still getting things from dodgy slavish suppliers?

I'm genuinely curious because I've not heard much about that lately.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 30, 2019)

Artaxerxes said:


> Aren't Primark still getting things from dodgy slavish suppliers?
> 
> I'm genuinely curious because I've not heard much about that lately.



All clothing operations seem to get their products from places like Bangladesh, even higher-end outfits such as Filson etc. Not heard any horror stories about Primark's suppliers for many years though, AFAIK most companies such as Primark are very keen to ensure that such practices are not reflected with their products.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 30, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> All clothing operations seem to get their products from places like Bangladesh, even higher-end outfits such as Filson etc. Not heard any horror stories about Primark's suppliers for many years though, AFAIK most companies such as Primark are very keen to ensure that such practices are not reflected with their products.




Oh yeah they are all dodgy af, but given the prices and with Primark getting a lot of negativity about it when starting up years ago was curious about current state.


----------



## hash tag (May 31, 2019)

Two more independent bookshops going. Such a shame Amazon blamed as 'iconic' bookshops announce closure


----------



## A380 (Jun 1, 2019)

Sad news, another part of our past gone:

‘I need to get something for my diarrhoea’

‘Have you tried Boots?’

‘Yes, but it runs out the lace holes.’


----------



## Duncan2 (Jun 1, 2019)

Artaxerxes said:


> Oh yeah they are all dodgy af, but given the prices and with Primark getting a lot of negativity about it when starting up years ago was curious about current state.


imo what has changed is not the practices of the big clothing chains so much as the effort they put into cleansing their corporate image.Rather like the LGBT Marks and Spencer's sandwiches referred to on the Piers Morgan thread-a colossal amount is being spent on virtue-signalling of various kinds especially with regard to so-called sustainability.As if fast-fashion could ever make a worthwhile contribution to saving the planet.


----------



## Cid (Jun 1, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> All clothing operations seem to get their products from places like Bangladesh, even higher-end outfits such as Filson etc. Not heard any horror stories about Primark's suppliers for many years though, AFAIK most companies such as Primark are very keen to ensure that such practices are not reflected with their products.



Well, I mean the really bad one was only 6 years ago. It does have a list of factories on its website, so I suppose it would be possible to find them. They use suppliers who presumably also supply everyone else (well, except those companies that run their own factories or have more specific sourcing arrangements) so I doubt you're more or less ethical than buying from any other major company. But that model does allow them a degree of latitude in dismissing concerns around a specific supplier. 

There will be people sitting there weighing up the publicity potential of signing up to a specific ethical agreement, or using a particular sourcing arrangement against their price point on the high street. Which is presumably why they don't pay the living wage, why their sourcing is kind of... semi-transparent. I imagine they do send people over to inspect the factories they use, but I doubt they're asking many questions about fair wages, ability to unionise, working hours.  

It is what it is... We don't have much choice in where we buy our clothes. But the idea that Primark is somehow holding an ethical line, that they're doing things right. That's bollocks.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 1, 2019)

I look forward to the ‘living museum’ of the future featuring a late 20th century high street, Woollies, HMV, C&A, Rumbelows, Blockbuster etc.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jun 1, 2019)

Cid said:


> Well, I mean the really bad one was only 6 years ago. It does have a list of factories on its website, so I suppose it would be possible to find them. They use suppliers who presumably also supply everyone else (well, except those companies that run their own factories or have more specific sourcing arrangements) so I doubt you're more or less ethical than buying from any other major company. But that model does allow them a degree of latitude in dismissing concerns around a specific supplier.
> 
> There will be people sitting there weighing up the publicity potential of signing up to a specific ethical agreement, or using a particular sourcing arrangement against their price point on the high street. Which is presumably why they don't pay the living wage, why their sourcing is kind of... semi-transparent. I imagine they do send people over to inspect the factories they use, but I doubt they're asking many questions about fair wages, ability to unionise, working hours.
> 
> It is what it is... We don't have much choice in where we buy our clothes. But the idea that Primark is somehow holding an ethical line, that they're doing things right. That's bollocks.


Its worse than that surely?The reason they are all in Bangladesh,Cambodia and Vietnam is precisely in order to subcontract to desperate locals running gargantuan sweat-shops.The idea that these same corporations might institute an inspections-regime that actually improved the lot of the workers is for the birds.The whole idea is to be able to operate under the radar.When they can no longer bullshit their way around this situation the corporations will invest massively in automation again to avoid any obligation to the welfare of the seamstresses.Indeed I believe this process is already under-way in Bangladesh.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 1, 2019)

Duncan2 said:


> Its worse than that surely?The reason they are all in Bangladesh,Cambodia and Vietnam is precisely in order to subcontract to desperate locals running gargantuan sweat-shops.The idea that these same corporations might institute an inspections-regime that actually improved the lot of the workers is for the birds.The whole idea is to be able to operate under the radar.When they can no longer bullshit their way around this situation the corporations will invest massively in automation again to avoid any obligation to the welfare of the seamstresses.Indeed I believe this process is already under-way in Bangladesh.



Or move somewhere cheaper.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 8, 2019)

Sir Philip Green's rescue deal in balance

I do hope Green has set up complicated  and argueably borderline legal structures to minimise the hit on his personal fortune.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 11, 2019)

Landlords are turning down Phil's proposals and it's not looking good.
I gather alarm bells are now ringing at Ted Baker.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 12, 2019)

Rescue plan agreed, most shops & jobs saved. 

Green secures rescue for Topshop empire


----------



## hash tag (Jun 12, 2019)

48 shops to close and a thousand jobs lost, poor staff 
I could see Ashley stepping in


----------



## binka (Jun 12, 2019)

Poi E said:


> I've worked with idiots in procurement always trying to squeeze the vendors, and when the shit hits the fan and extra help is needed they wonder why there's no latitude in the relationship.


I supply half a dozen different big name online and high street retailers with fragrance and beauty products, when it gets to peak and all of a sudden I only have a finite supply of product available I often wonder if the ones I stop supplying in mid-October consider it might have something to do with their 90 days terms and 6% settlement discount... and whether they notice their rivals have stock well into December.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 9, 2019)

It is a shame to see lots of people losing their jobs when the chains close down, but to see a tale of an old independent closing down
is especially sad 'Devastated' family to close 152-year-old DIY shop


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 4, 2019)

I didn't know this was still around as I've not seen a branch in many years - Spudulike has closed.

Spudulike closes all 37 outlets as high street downturn continues


----------



## hash tag (Aug 4, 2019)




----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 4, 2019)

That’s well shit when there is a parent company yet staff won’t be paid for the two weeks work they’ve done. Bet the administrators get paid tho.


But yeah, who knew Spudulike was still a thing anyway?


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 4, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> But yeah, who knew Spudulike was still a thing anyway?


Yeah, just where are those mysterious 37 branches?  

This site suggests the nearest one to me is in Stoke on Trent.


----------



## Celyn (Aug 4, 2019)

Quite. I have no idea when I last saw a Spudulike.

(Am now recalling when I worked in a baked potato and pizza shop. It was called "Jack Tatties". No pretentious reference there, of course. )


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 4, 2019)

Pretty sure there is (was) a spudulike in both chester (upper bridge street) and cardiff (st davids centre).

I love jackets, eat loads of them at home, jackets with salad and quiche/steak, jackets with chilli, jackets with cheese & beans. Fuck buying one out tho


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 4, 2019)

Celyn said:


> I have no idea when I last saw a Spudulike.


Same here - guess is must have been in the 1980s.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 4, 2019)

£6.60 for one baked potato with a dollop of (we all know it would be shit) chilli, nah


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 4, 2019)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I didn't know this was still around as I've not seen a branch in many years - Spudulike has closed.
> 
> Spudulike closes all 37 outlets as high street downturn continues



Thought it was a made up name from 90s comics till now.

Not seen a store ever. Baked spuds are one of those things I associate with uber cheap high steets. Just usually it's some bloke and a wagon.


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2019)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Yeah, just where are those mysterious 37 branches?
> 
> This site suggests the nearest one to me is in Stoke on Trent.


There was one until fairly recently in the arndale food hall...


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 5, 2019)

killer b said:


> There was one until fairly recently in the arndale food hall...


I don't think I've set foot in there for years, which would explain my ignorance.


----------



## OzT (Aug 5, 2019)

Is not 'Arndale' the most popular name for centres in England?


----------



## OzT (Aug 5, 2019)

ooo just googled it and this is what is said:

*Arndale Centres* were the first "American style" malls to be built in the United Kingdom. In total, twenty three Arndales have been built in the United Kingdom, and three in Australia. The first opened in Jarrow in 1961, as a pedestrianised shopping area.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 5, 2019)

OzT said:


> Is not 'Arndale' the most popular name for centres in England?


Yeah, it was a generic name. I think the Manchester one was the biggest (too big really as it dominates the retail core).


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 5, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Some bloke on LBC yesterday who runs a small business supplying ear drops said Boots are the worst for payment. Even worse since they were taken over by Walgreens. Apparently they have 105 days payment terms  and they gave themselves a discount if they pay within that!
> 
> He fucked them off for Amazon and now gets paid on time and has seen significant growth in sales.


The worst discounting thing I ever hear of is when retailers decide they need to refit their stores, so ask for enormous discounts from their suppliers. Or rather they tried to, because their suppliers said they’d have to sell at a loss, in order to do so. House of Fraser and M & S tried this on. It’s greedy and entitled, so I don’t feel sad that they’re finding it tough. I used to work for an  Asda supplier and they expected the supplier to fund the ‘roll-back’ discount.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 5, 2019)

Many of the large retailers bully suppliers into giving discounts all the time. This is partly why we don't have so many farmers anymore. They were/are getting paid less than the cost of production.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 5, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Many of the large retailers bully suppliers into giving discounts all the time. This is partly why we don't have so many farmers anymore. They were/are getting paid less than the cost of production.


Yes on the high street its relentless, everywhere you turn it's discounts discounts and they will even try and use their quality controllers to claim something is faulty so they  can return a slow selling line. 
And they pay peanuts to freelancers like me and I can't live on it. So I now work mostly with British manufacturers and small European factories and clients that sell direct to customer.  I only work with one high street priced supplier as they are a family business and local to me, but they don't supply the high street, only a handful of boutiques and mostly big online businesses. They supply websites worldwide and I've noticed there isn't the relentless demand for discounts like the big Brit chains used to have. Apart from Amazon, where I know a lot of brands refused to supply them via their buying dept.  As they were far worse and would sell below r.r.p. upsetting your other customers who couldn't afford to discount. I know one Chinese supplier selling direct on Amazon (ebay style) and doing well.   I also remember back in the day (going back to 1990's here when I worked for a supplier) the bribing of buyers at M&S by suppliers got so out of hand - with buyers being gifted cars, holidays and in one case I heard, having an extension on their house paid for - that M&S had to impose a complete ban on gifts. They obviously felt entitled to those bribes themselves - it was 2011 when they demanded £600million from suppliers for store refits. Capitalism -  it's a dirty business.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 5, 2019)

I hear that Tesco's are closing 153 metro stores at a loss of 4500 jobs.
we don't use Tesco's as they were as bad as they come for bullying suppliers. They have put lots of little businness's out of business. They have land banked simply to prevent rivals opening up and/or for the investment in the land. I believe they are questionable employers.
Despite this, I am desperately sorry for all their staff who are losing jobs.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 5, 2019)

Land banking is a time honoured tradition in these isles. You have a monarch and her relatives who've been at it for centuries, the treacherous fuckers.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 5, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I hear that Tesco's are closing 153 metro stores at a loss of 4500 jobs.
> we don't use Tesco's as they were as bad as they come for bullying suppliers. They have put lots of little businness's out of business. They have land banked simply to prevent rivals opening up and/or for the investment in the land. I believe they are questionable employers.
> Despite this, I am desperately sorry for all their staff who are losing jobs.


I get a call from them about every 6 months wanting freelance design help. Their day rate is the shitest of all and they are always looking for help. Like  a lot of companies, it's a tax dodge, always 4 days a week working in their office so you end up cramming what should be a full time job into four days and being too knackered to work for anyone else, which is a big risk if you don't have a contract.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 5, 2019)

hash tag said:


> I hear that Tesco's are closing 153 metro stores at a loss of 4500 jobs.
> we don't use Tesco's as they were as bad as they come for bullying suppliers. They have put lots of little businness's out of business. They have land banked simply to prevent rivals opening up and/or for the investment in the land. I believe they are questionable employers.
> Despite this, I am desperately sorry for all their staff who are losing jobs.



I can't see anything about store closures, just a massive reduction in staffing levels, an average of around 15 jobs per store in the plan.



> Around 4,500 Tesco staff are set to lose their jobs thanks to changes in the way it runs its Metro and Express stores, the company has announced.
> 
> All 153 Metro stores and 134 Express stores are being targeted, but big shops don't escape entirely, with "localised" changes in the larger branches too.



Tesco axe 4,500 jobs across Metro and Express stores in latest round of cuts


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## hash tag (Aug 5, 2019)

The closures were on the initial reports on the radio earlier. Still very sad for Thousands of staff remembering that thousands have already lost their jobs.
Flexible working and scab tills all the way then


----------



## hash tag (Sep 11, 2019)

Not all bad news? Retailers shut 2,870 stores in first half of 2019


----------



## Poi E (Sep 11, 2019)

Shitter for councils that rely on commercial rates. Guess those vast shopping centres will become lots of little apartments like cruise ships, with atriums and stuff. Could fill them with prefabricated units.


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## pesh (Sep 11, 2019)

Legalise weed, turn them into grow rooms. Profit.


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## Dogsauce (Sep 11, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Shitter for councils that rely on commercial rates. Guess those vast shopping centres will become lots of little apartments like cruise ships, with atriums and stuff. Could fill them with prefabricated units.



Javid & Johnson want a load of new jails, use them for that. Most of them aren’t very easy to get out of already.


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## cybershot (Sep 25, 2019)

Sainsbury’s to close 70 Argos stores as part of reorganisation

This will probably almost guarantee my local goes, as the nearest Sainsbury’s already has one in store. Which is utterly crap no surprise.


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 25, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Sainsbury’s to close 70 Argos stores as part of reorganisation
> 
> This will probably almost guarantee my local goes, as the nearest Sainsbury’s already has one in store. Which is utterly crap no surprise.



If anyone feels nostalgic for the Argos experience, you can recreate it by simply buying a product from a normal shop and then kicking it down a flight of stairs.


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## cupid_stunt (Sep 25, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Sainsbury’s to close 70 Argos stores as part of reorganisation
> 
> This will probably almost guarantee my local goes, as the nearest Sainsbury’s already has one in store. Which is utterly crap no surprise.



TBF, it was always part of the plan when they took over Argos, three years ago.

It was reported at the time that up to 200 Argos stores would close, as more people are ordering online rather than in-store, and going for delivery or click & collect.


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## ferdinand (Oct 2, 2019)

The High Streets are booming. Tattoo Parlours abound. Hairdressers blow dry at every corner. Posh Vape stores smoke by the thousand. Takeaways sell everything you want to eat, and charity shop are a must; why buy a £1000 pound buggy when perfect kid carriers can be bought for thirty quid in Oxfam.
Cameron's pricey autobiography will fill Save The Children just after Christmas. You can't buy a screw or a bit of wood but who wants to DIY, buy a bottle of Pinot instead, there's stacks about.


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## BristolEcho (Oct 3, 2019)

Late to SpudULike debate, but they were fucking shit. I had one once as I was out through work and it was the worst jacket I'd ever had. Not surprised they went bust.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 3, 2019)

BristolEcho said:


> Late to SpudULike debate, but they were fucking shit. I had one once as I was out through work and it was the worst jacket I'd ever had. Not surprised they went bust.



Pretty embarassaing if their whole thing is jacket potatoes and they can't even make one properly.

Mind you being unable to cook chicken properly has propelled Nandos to the brink of world domination so who even knows.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 7, 2019)

Pizza Express looking iffy

Pizza Express lining up for painful debt restructuring


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## Poi E (Oct 8, 2019)

ferdinand said:


> The High Streets are booming. Tattoo Parlours abound. Hairdressers blow dry at every corner. Posh Vape stores smoke by the thousand. Takeaways sell everything you want to eat, and charity shop are a must; why buy a £1000 pound buggy when perfect kid carriers can be bought for thirty quid in Oxfam.
> Cameron's pricey autobiography will fill Save The Children just after Christmas. You can't buy a screw or a bit of wood but who wants to DIY, buy a bottle of Pinot instead, there's stacks about.



Nail bars booming, too. Lots of shops to do money laundering.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 8, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Pizza Express looking iffy
> 
> Pizza Express lining up for painful debt restructuring



The whole mid-price dining sector is overcrowded and there's loads of new chains trying to claw their way into it. Again I suspect commercial rents are a big factor in why turnover is so high, on top of the level of competition. Oh and disposable income in real terms keeps falling, which may actually turn out to be a bad thing for capitalism in the long run. All the proposed high street bribe money the tories are talking up won't change the basic economics of things.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 8, 2019)

Went to posh Kingston (upon Thames) yesterday (hospital visit); seemed to be quite a few shut/empty shop properties around the Market place.
Thought it was well well-off?


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 8, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> The whole mid-price dining sector is overcrowded and there's loads of new chains trying to claw their way into it. Again I suspect commercial rents are a big factor in why turnover is so high, on top of the level of competition. Oh and disposable income in real terms keeps falling, which may actually turn out to be a bad thing for capitalism in the long run. All the proposed high street bribe money the tories are talking up won't change the basic economics of things.



To many brands have far to many stores as w well.

Pizza Express is all over the place.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 8, 2019)

Artaxerxes said:


> To many brands have far to many stores as w well.
> 
> Pizza Express is all over the place.



We were in a Bella Italia near Leicester square last week. Not five minutes walk from another one. We were the only customers, and we had some half price voucher. God knows what they're paying in rent for that location.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 8, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Went to posh Kingston (upon Thames) yesterday (hospital visit); seemed to be quite a few shut/empty shop properties around the Market place.
> Thought it was well well-off?



Kingston isn't all that posh to be fair, not around the centre anyway. Not in the way that Richmond is just down the road.


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## brogdale (Oct 8, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Kingston isn't all that posh to be fair, not around the centre anyway. Not in the way that Richmond is just down the road.


Maybe; seems like it when you come from Croydon way tbh.


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## Idaho (Oct 8, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Maybe; seems like it when you come from Croydon way tbh.


Dhaka seems posh when you've just come from Croydon.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 8, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> We were in a Bella Italia near Leicester square last week. Not five minutes walk from another one. We were the only customers, and we had some half price voucher. God knows what they're paying in rent for that location.



Also worth noting that Pizza Express also always have voucher deals on. I’ve never been in one in recent times without a 2 for 1 voucher.

Having said that - I’m not often in one anyway. I’d rather go to Wagamama most of the time if we’re talking mid-price dining.


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## brogdale (Oct 8, 2019)

Idaho said:


> Dhaka seems posh when you've just come from Croydon.


Not this again.


----------



## pesh (Oct 8, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> We were in a Bella Italia near Leicester square last week. Not five minutes walk from another one. We were the only customers, and we had some half price voucher. God knows what they're paying in rent for that location.


those are rammed at lunch and dinnertime with people queuing out the door.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 8, 2019)

The vouchers usually don't count at weekends mind which is when you most want a meal out.


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## hash tag (Oct 8, 2019)

Ted Baker also having money probs?


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## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Ted Baker also having money probs?


They were always shit but see a lot more of them in the sales rack since the sex pest danger stuff came out


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## pinkmonkey (Oct 8, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> We were in a Bella Italia near Leicester square last week. Not five minutes walk from another one. We were the only customers, and we had some half price voucher. God knows what they're paying in rent for that location.


I get vouchers via email for Eds Easy Diner. I don’t think I’ve ever been? We eat out about three times a year but it’s aways at the pub.


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## Badgers (Oct 8, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Ted Baker also having money probs?


Heart bleeds etc


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## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

pinkmonkey said:


> I get vouchers via email for Eds Easy Diner. I don’t think I’ve ever been? We eat out about three times a year but it’s aways at the pub.


I went to one once (cos my mate who I was with is called eddie) - it is really bad food, it's like a film hollywood diner but it's just bad onion rings and hot dogs. Properly grim food, amazing it gets business.

The only chains I don't mind are pizza express and wagamamas (which gets loads of shit but it does a ginger udon noodle dish and a spicy firecracker rice thing which are both nice, although the massive tables are terrible and everybody gets their food separately so you can spend twenty minutes watching everybody else eat). Every other one is crap, all the 'italian' places like bella etc are all crap. Can't get my head around paying £12 for average pasta out anyway, unless it's lasagne and chips for half that cost. Half decent pub meal almost always a better bet. Tbf I eat out about twice a year these days so fuck knows, maybe stuff has changed.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I went to one once (cos my mate who I was with is called eddie) - it is really bad food, it's like a film hollywood diner but it's just bad onion rings and hot dogs. Properly grim food, amazing it gets business.
> 
> The only chains I don't mind are pizza express and wagamamas (which gets loads of shit but it does a ginger udon noodle dish and a spicy firecracker rice thing which are both nice, although the massive tables are terrible and everybody gets their food separately so you can spend twenty minutes watching everybody else eat). Every other one is crap, all the 'italian' places like bella etc are all crap. Can't get my head around paying £12 for average pasta out anyway, unless it's lasagne and chips for half that cost. Half decent pub meal almost always a better bet. Tbf I eat out about twice a year these days so fuck knows, maybe stuff has changed.



Do you still get free green tea at wagamama? The basic veggie noodle stir fry is good. I did like the chili squid back in my carnivorous days as well.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I went to one once (cos my mate who I was with is called eddie) - it is really bad food, it's like a film hollywood diner but it's just bad onion rings and hot dogs. Properly grim food, amazing it gets business.
> 
> The only chains I don't mind are pizza express and wagamamas (which gets loads of shit but it does a ginger udon noodle dish and a spicy firecracker rice thing which are both nice, although the massive tables are terrible and everybody gets their food separately so you can spend twenty minutes watching everybody else eat). Every other one is crap, all the 'italian' places like bella etc are all crap. Can't get my head around paying £12 for average pasta out anyway, unless it's lasagne and chips for half that cost. Half decent pub meal almost always a better bet. Tbf I eat out about twice a year these days so fuck knows, maybe stuff has changed.



i also don’t mind Wagamamas but if I’m in the West End on my own and its lunchtime, then its Eat Tokyo everytime. Bento boxes start at £7.50 - so much food you can’t breathe afterwards.  A lamb shish with everything (rice, salad, tea, bread - everything) on the green lanes is similarly a bargain. So the chains don’t get my vote.


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## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Do you still get free green tea at wagamama? The basic veggie noodle stir fry is good. I did like the chili squid back in my carnivorous days as well.


Tbh it's about two years since I've had a wagamamas, think they still did the green tea then


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## hash tag (Oct 8, 2019)

Wheres the line drawn from a place being small to a large, despised chain. I remember Franco Manca being feted as best pizza in town when they had an outlet in Brixton Market. They now have countless outlets nationwide. They have stuck to a small menu, sour dough bases and quality ingredients.


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## mx wcfc (Oct 8, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Wheres the line drawn from a place being small to a large, despised chain. I remember Franco Manca being feted as best pizza in town when they had an outlet in Brixton Market. They now have countless outlets nationwide. They have stuck to a small menu, sour dough bases and quality ingredients.


Sticking to quality and not being owned by private equity must be fairly high up  the list.  Nought wrong with a decent restaurant expanding and spreading.  It's the staying independent and sticking to quality bit that is hard.


----------



## Marty1 (Oct 9, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Amazon collection centers/cashless food warehouses



Amazon are on a mission for global domination, they are expanding Amazon lockers to such an extent that there will be one on every street corner unless they aren’t broken up to stop them being a monopoly.

Last year I delivered about 30 Amazon parcels to a food bank


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## hash tag (Oct 9, 2019)

May, not on every corner, why would they when there are lots of empty units going begging....just think, an Amazon store, a place full of collection lockers of varying sizes.	 Why not?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 16, 2019)

Jessops owner plans to call in administrators



> The owner of camera chain Jessops, Dragons Den star Peter Jones, plans to call in administrators to help salvage the struggling High Street brand.
> 
> Mr Jones bought the chain from administrators in 2013 after it collapsed under £81m of debt. But since then, the firm, which has 46 shops, has not made a single profit and losses have mounted in recent years.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poi E (Oct 16, 2019)

Thought they'd gone bust years ago.


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## cupid_stunt (Oct 16, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Thought they'd gone bust years ago.



They did in 2013, and 187 stores closed. Then Peter Jones bought the brand from the administrators, re-opened a couple of dozen stores, and opened a few new ones inside Sainsbury's larger supermarkets, taking it to 46 outlets.


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## hash tag (Oct 16, 2019)

So multi millionaire Peter Jones is calling in admin to Jessops, cash in his chips and make another few quid in the process


----------



## kebabking (Oct 16, 2019)

hash tag said:


> So multi millionaire Peter Jones is calling in admin to Jessops, cash in his chips and make another few quid in the process



I don't see how he will make a few quid in the process of Jessops being in administration - and then, presumably, liquidation.

Administration is where they try to sell it on, in whole or in parts, and I rather doubt there'll be any buyers - liquidation is where they try to flog the assets of the company to pay off creditors. Jones, assuming he's a creditor, will be about the last person to get any money.

There may be questions about how the company was run - debt laddling, pension pot etc.. but he's unlikely to make any money from Jessops from now on...


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## hash tag (Oct 16, 2019)

PJ could have taken massive pay/bonuses. He could have burdened the company with lots of debt, sold premises and leased them back...there are many ways an owner of an ailing company can line his pockets.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 18, 2019)




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## hash tag (Oct 18, 2019)

Surprised they were still going TBF. 318 shops, several thousand staff


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## pinkmonkey (Oct 18, 2019)

Yep, can’t really compete with the supermarkets (or charity shops).


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 4, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Mothercare to close 60 stores, putting 900 jobs at risk



Those closures over the last year doesn't seem to have helped them, their whole UK retail operation could well end-up in administration this week, with 500 f/t & 2000 p/t jobs at risk.



> Mothercare is finalising a radical restructuring plan that could see its British operations placed into administration this week, dealing a fresh blow to a beleaguered retail sector.
> 
> Sky News has learnt that the company, which is now dominated by its franchising business outside the UK, has put administrators on standby to take over its domestic division within days.



Ailing Mothercare lines up administrators for UK business


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## cupid_stunt (Nov 4, 2019)

Bit sooner than expected, administrators have now been appointed by Mothercare.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 8, 2019)

Mamas & Papas to close six stores and make redundancies at Huddersfield head office


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## cupid_stunt (Nov 8, 2019)

If anyone wants a bargain...

Mothercare kicks off closing down sale



> Mothercare is launching a closing down sale with nearly all products “dramatically reduced” as it prepares to close all its 79 stores and its website in the UK.
> 
> The baby and maternity retailer is to begin clearing stock with the sale on Friday after appointing administrators from the advisory firm PricewaterhouseCoopers on Tuesday, who are to close down its UK retail arm with the loss of more than 2,800 jobs within the next few months. Jobs at Mothercare’s warehouse and call centres – which are outsourced to other companies – are also at risk.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 8, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> If anyone wants a bargain...
> 
> Mothercare kicks off closing down sale



I guess you can just pop in and lift anything you like for free, staff are hardly gonna give a fuck...


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## MickiQ (Nov 8, 2019)

Time was when we brought loads of stuff from Mothercare, bit pricey but good quality and everything was in one place, I remember that it was the only place I knew of where there was nappy changing facilities in the gents loo. (this was back in the 90's)


----------



## Badgers (Nov 10, 2019)

Clinton Cards looking shaky at best


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2019)

Their busiest time of year by far I guess.
thinking out loud here, do people send out as many cards as ever or do many now send electronic greetings?


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## Badgers (Nov 10, 2019)

Clinton Cards is shit. As always it is a shame for the staff but those trinket merchants are no loss.


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## Proper Tidy (Nov 10, 2019)

I go to card factory. It's just as shit as clintons but the cards are 99p


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 10, 2019)

Badgers said:


> Clinton Cards looking shaky at best



They went bust in 2012, and haven't really improved trading results since their main supplier took them over.

£34m in debt, for a chain selling cards & bits of tat. 

Clintons pleads with landlords to reduce rents as 2,500 jobs at risk


----------



## Badgers (Nov 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> They went bust in 2012, and haven't really improved trading results since their main supplier took them over.
> 
> £34m in debt, for a chain selling cards & bits of tat.
> 
> Clintons pleads with landlords to reduce rents as 2,500 jobs at risk


It is shit isn't it. 

Landlord's are cunts but they are being asked to subsidise a failing/doomed business that is carrying all that debt. The staff and suppliers will get fucked in the end.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2019)

It's a dog eat dog world and most are trying to screw Somone else.
greed, that's what is, greed. We all want more.


----------



## chilango (Nov 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I go to card factory. It's just as shit as clintons but the cards are 99p



29p if you're not fussy about making sure it's the "correct" occasion.


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 10, 2019)

Badgers said:


> It is shit isn't it.
> 
> Landlord's are cunts but they are being asked to subsidise a failing/doomed business that is carrying all that debt. The staff and suppliers will get fucked in the end.



Not really a subsidy is it? Commercial rents have increased just as much as house rents, if not more, and it strangles businesses whilst giving them nothing more. A correction is needed there just as much as with domestic property. It’s why this country has fewer independent stores like local bakeries that you see on the continent, because whole high streets are in some cases owned outright by commercial property companies and they squeeze tenants for every drop. Fuck them.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 10, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Not really a subsidy is it? Commercial rents have increased just as much as house rents, if not more, and it strangles businesses whilst giving them nothing more. A correction is needed there just as much as with domestic property. It’s why this country has fewer independent stores like local bakeries that you see on the continent, because whole high streets are in some cases owned outright by commercial property companies and they squeeze tenants for every drop. Fuck them.


100% agree with you but why should Clinton's 'profit mark up' be okay whilst a landlord's is not?


----------



## hash tag (Nov 10, 2019)

Can't believe a correction has not happened/started in respect of commercial rents given how many premises are empty and how many are people forcing reductions


----------



## Badgers (Nov 10, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Can't believe a correction has not happened/started in respect of commercial rents given how many premises are empty and how many are people forcing reductions


Yes this ^

Land banking and commercial property banking is a shitfest ruining this country (among other things property related)


----------



## Poi E (Nov 10, 2019)

Greeting cards should come in a machine with all the designs on them or load your own to print on card. Have them at railways stations. Must be able to do it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 12, 2019)




----------



## kebabking (Nov 12, 2019)

the local Homebase is closing.

obviously its just the local one, but if its illustrative its a fucking tip compared to B&Q: it usually looks like its been robbed and the stock looks like its all end-of-line stuff being flogged of cheap.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 12, 2019)

kebabking said:


> the local Homebase is closing.
> 
> obviously its just the local one, but if its illustrative its a fucking tip compared to B&Q: it usually looks like its been robbed and the stock looks like its all end-of-line stuff being flogged of cheap.



Our Homebase has been spared for now, but that also looks a right mess compared to B&Q and Wickes. Still it's a pretty decent store if you're in to shoplifting


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 12, 2019)

kebabking said:


> the local Homebase is closing.
> 
> obviously its just the local one, but if its illustrative its a fucking tip compared to B&Q: it usually looks like its been robbed and the stock looks like its all end-of-line stuff being flogged of cheap.



Homebase was sold for £1 in Feb. 2017 to Hilco, who announced 42 store closures in Aug. 2018, clearly they are not very stable.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Nov 12, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Wheres the line drawn from a place being small to a large, despised chain. I remember Franco Manca being feted as best pizza in town when they had an outlet in Brixton Market. They now have countless outlets nationwide. They have stuck to a small menu, sour dough bases and quality ingredients.


I didn't know the chain sprang from the market Franco. I thought he was an old one-man-band, ish


----------



## hash tag (Nov 12, 2019)

UrbaneFox said:


> I didn't know the chain sprang from the market Franco. I thought he was an old one-man-band, ish



Just 50 branches so far and counting. Franco Manca - Sourdough Pizza - Our Pizzerias


----------



## hash tag (Nov 12, 2019)

Incidentally, I went into the Debenhams in Wandsworth today, which now has its closing down sale. I had a chat with a member of staff who was not too down as she said they had been given 9 months notice which was plenty of time for them all to find new jobs. It is a major store for Wandsworth and will leave another hole in the shopping area, quite a substantial one.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 12, 2019)

What did you buy in Debenhams hash tag?


----------



## hash tag (Nov 12, 2019)

Knickers, this morning! Previously? See posts else where, Me n Mrs T have bought no new clothes for at least a year except emergency buys.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 13, 2019)

Giuseppe Mascoli moved to London from Naples in the 1990s, he worked as a lecturer in Economics at LSE and at Franco's, an Italian restaurant at Brixton Market that belonged to a friend, Franco. In 2008, Mascoli and Bridget Hugo (BreadBread) took over the place and renamed it Franco Manca's, which means Franco's missing.

March 2015, Franco Manca became part of The Fulham Shore, owned and operated by Giuseppe Mascoli, David Page, Nabil Mankarious, and David Sykes, they also own The Real Greek. In July 2018 they stated in the company report that more than 50% of the people who worked in the business held shares in the company.


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## hash tag (Nov 13, 2019)

Our neighbouring Homebase is a building site for a high rise block. B&Q a mile away has just been demolished, for flats. Homebase opposite that will go at any time.
Nearest B&Q or similar must now be 5+ miles away


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## Artaxerxes (Nov 13, 2019)

Not much call for homebase and b&q when every fucker rents.


----------



## Poi E (Nov 13, 2019)

kebabking said:


> the local Homebase is closing.
> 
> obviously its just the local one, but if its illustrative its a fucking tip compared to B&Q: it usually looks like its been robbed and the stock looks like its all end-of-line stuff being flogged of cheap.



The Australian Wesfarmers company took the UK's largest hit in corporate history on acquiring the utter dog that is Homebase. And the UK is filled with hardware supplier dogs, so that takes some doing. Wesfarmers cited the "complexities" of the UK home improvement market which I guess means they didn't realise quite how shit house "improvements" in the UK are, comprising silicone sealant and prayer. Anyway, the idiot Tony Newman who heads up Croydon Council still reckons the Aussies will invest in a huge mall in Croydon. No chance, mate. No fucking chance. Anyone investing in retail in the UK needs their head read.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 13, 2019)

God rest ye merry shopkeepers 

Toy sales slump as shops chase Christmas cheer


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 13, 2019)

I’ve been following the hashtag #deadmall on instagram, fascinating photos of behemoth abandoned malls across the USA and its happening here too.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 13, 2019)

Many will be sold online and a drift towards electronic shut.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 26, 2019)

More bank branches to close, taking the total to 3,300 since 2015! 

TSB to close 82 branches next year to cut costs

It's estimated that between 300 and 400 jobs could be going, and they are being told just before Christmas.


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 26, 2019)

Xmas actually seems to be a popular time to axe jobs


----------



## OzT (Nov 26, 2019)

Just like after the new year's the most popular time for breakups

_* no connection with the thread just a random observation_


----------



## Poi E (Dec 13, 2019)

Watch those shopping centres collapse after Brexit

UK property funds suffer worst week since Brexit referendum


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 10, 2020)

GAME to close 40 shops in the UK due to ‘challenging retail market’
					

The UK’s biggest video game retail chain is to close 40 of its 300+ stores, including sites in Watford, Leicester, and Glasgow.




					metro.co.uk


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 10, 2020)

GAME To Close 40 UK Stores
					

The retailer has announced the closures as part of its ‘rationalisation programme’




					www.ladbible.com
				




And HMV 



> Earlier this week, fellow high street retailer HMV announced it would be closing 10 stores at the end of January unless it can negotiate rent prices.
> In a statement, HMV said: "There are currently 10 stores where negotiations with landlords are ongoing and we are hopeful of securing new deals. These stores are due to close later this month unless new deals can be agreed.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jan 11, 2020)

I get the above,  clearly amazon and music streaming/downloading are having an impact.

But is a big part of this just that we have reached, and past, "peak stuff"?  we are/were in an era of rampant consumerism.  Are people starting to realise that it's shit? I think people are starting to realise this - that you can have 10 pairs of jeans, but actually, you need 2 or 3 at most, so they are just buying less.  Capitalism's inability to cope without growth is the problem.

For example, the Paperchase shop in Reading's big indoor shopping centre has closed now.  I wandered in before xmas when it had a closing down sale on, looking for "stocking fillers".  It was full of crap. Complete junk.  It was appalling that our planet's resources had been wasted like that.  Cheep crap, manufactured in China then shipped half way round the planet on polluting container ships so that 12 year olds had something to spend their pocket money on.  I hope the PE people have lost big time.  

I think a bid element of the death of the high street is just that people (massive generalisation, yes) have enough "stuff" and have stopped buying "stuff".  

which would be good, planet wise.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 11, 2020)

I see that bellweather of all things retail, John Lewis is having problems. Waitrose excluded, sales and profits down and now the chief exec has gone. When speaking to Mrs t last night about this, she said she hadn't shopped there in the last year. Great I thought, but it did sound like she was saying it was partly her fault.
we have only bought emergency/essential clothing in the last year and I see no reason why that can't continue, though I am tempted by the thought of some new running shoes.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jan 11, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> If anyone wants a bargain...
> 
> Mothercare kicks off closing down sale


finishing tomorrow when all stores close.


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 11, 2020)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> finishing tomorrow when all stores close.



Did Mothercare sell online in U.K.?


----------



## cybershot (Jan 11, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> GAME To Close 40 UK Stores
> 
> 
> The retailer has announced the closures as part of its ‘rationalisation programme’
> ...



ETA: Mike Ashley has quite a big share in game so in some respects this is more good news for the downfall of his empire but bad for the staff obviously.

what’s interesting in this particular sector is that CeX whose stock is obviously all second hand+ is thriving. Yes they buy off you at ridiculous prices and sell it on for a profit, the margins aren’t that huge though unless it’s actual tech. Video games, blu rays etc comes down to a few quid and you can pick up some bargains for old games that are a much better deal than games’s pre owned prices.

bottom line is as mentioned countless times on this thread. Greedy landlords. As more of the more street gets emptyand stays empty for a long time hopefully, fingers crossed their bottom lines start to hurt and the pain starts going the way of these greedy cockmonkeys that deserve all they get for being evil.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jan 11, 2020)

This article  strikes me as more thoughtful than most.









						Not Buying It: What Does The 'Death' Of One High Street Really Tell Us?
					

"The high street of the 1990s and 2000s, soulless and predictable, duplicated all over the country, is finished." But a new kind of future is emerging.




					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk
				





It bears mentioning that some of the occupants of the high streets so missed by nostalgists were terrible shops; in one picture in the article you can see a Macfisheries and a Timothy Whites: both useless.

When Sainsbury's opened in Christchurch, the local shops said 'it'll kill the High Street'. When they left years later it was 'it'll be the death of the High St' over again.

Unless internet shopping is a different shift from anything before.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 11, 2020)

When the high st. is dead the online prices are gonna skyrocket.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jan 11, 2020)

I still wonder why some shops are still going. Top of list is WH Smith. Their use of scab tills reached new heights yesterday at airport as it demanded boarding pass (tax fiddle) after taking cash. Cue one bored employee to override demand. Hate that over priced place so much but I'd finished my book and had four hours in the hell of brand shopping that is T5 heathrow waiting on a plane.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 11, 2020)

I get the feeling WH Smith only continue to exist because of their existence in transport hubs.
Their high street branches are going to rack n ruin.


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Jan 11, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I get the feeling WH Smith only continue to exist because of their existence in transport hubs.
> Their high street branches are going to rack n ruin.


I tried to buy a new diary* the same style as one they sold last year but it wasn't in stock. They told me they were getting some more stock in but I phoned to check a few days later and they hadn't. The thought occurred to me then that if you don't get more stock in you can't sell it, and if you don't have stock to sell as a shop you're in trouble. They've already downsized in Manchester city centre, used to have a fairly big store, now a much smaller one. I give their Market Street/Arndale branch a year, if that. Although of course their transport link branches will probably be all right.

* I ended up calling three more branches, two at Manchester train stations and one up near the university, none of which had the diary I wanted in stock. So I ended up buying it online directly from Lett's.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 11, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I get the feeling WH Smith only continue to exist because of their existence in transport hubs.
> Their high street branches are going to rack n ruin.



They have over 130 post offices in their branches, with more to come, so I guess that helps them. 

Our Crown Post Office closed last year & moved into WHSmith's.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 11, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> They have over 130 post offices in their branches, with more to come, so I guess that helps them.
> 
> Our Crown Post Office closed last year & moved into WHSmith's.


Thats another story in itself. The Post Office have closed many branches and moved into existing shops.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 11, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Thats another story in itself. The Post Office have closed many branches and moved into existing shops.



It had to be done, no point keeping branches open that couldn't cover their costs.

Made me laugh a few years ago, there was a campaign to save my mother's village sub-PO, it was closing because the couple running it were retiring, and because foot-fall was down so much, the only interested party to take it on was the Co-op, who would be offering much longer opening hours, including Sundays, and basic banking services for most banks, when there had never been a bank branch in the village.

And, people were campaigning against it happening.


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 11, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yet again the main problem is...Landlords.
> 
> Rents for shops are rising, even though footfall is dropping like a stone. Many shop landlords are entities like pension funds, the actual rent isn’t the main thing for them, it is the asset, yet they seem blind to the fact that the high rents that rise relentlessly will one day not too far away make the asset worthless.
> 
> Local toy shop closed last year, his rent had been increased from 18 to 32k. The shop is still empty and I can’t see it being re-let any time soon, if ever (odd shaped premises). How can a small toy shop make enough money to pay £32k? Just to the landlord, before wages and everything else. It’s untenable



Yeah, it’s bizarre -do landlords see the writing on the wall and are just trying to squeeze the last drop of blood out their tenants rather than provide more longevity in reducing/stabilising rents now?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 11, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Yeah, it’s bizarre -do landlords see the writing on the wall and are just trying to squeeze the last drop of blood out their tenants rather than provide more longevity in reducing/stabilising rents now?



The aim is to make as much money as quickly as possible then sell it off for a handsome profit in the next round of gentrification.

There’s no interest in acting as shepherds, best to rip the skin off then flog off the body these days.


----------



## kenny g (Jan 11, 2020)

19sixtysix said:


> I still wonder why some shops are still going. Top of list is WH Smith. Their use of scab tills reached new heights yesterday at airport as it demanded boarding pass (tax fiddle) after taking cash. Cue one bored employee to override demand. Hate that over priced place so much but I'd finished my book and had four hours in the hell of brand shopping that is T5 heathrow waiting on a plane.



Could have just read the book in the shop..


----------



## weltweit (Jan 11, 2020)

Is it possible to categorise high street shoppers?


----------



## weltweit (Jan 11, 2020)

Or is it the case that these days all shoppers use a mix of high street, out of town and online?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 12, 2020)

I miss Bag’n’save and the Kitchen Reject Shop. Stuff has been dying off for years.


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 12, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Or is it the case that these days all shoppers use a mix of high street, out of town and online?



Maybe but there are definitely people who shop online every day - I’ve delivered in the same area over a 2 week period and delivered to the same addresses every day without fail.  Not sure why people don’t order everything in one go (other than the frivolity that free next day delivery unfortunately encourages).

If the every day order type customers are home then it’s not as bad as those who are never in and their neighbours look absolutely sick to their back teeth of reluctantly taking in their parcels for them - I’ve even had some start to refuse stating (understandably) it was getting out of hand as they already had a pile of parcels that hadn’t been picked up yet.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jan 12, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Maybe but there are definitely people who shop online every day - I’ve delivered in the same area over a 2 week period and delivered to the same addresses every day without fail.  Not sure why people don’t order everything in one go (other than the frivolity that free next day delivery unfortunately encourages).
> 
> If the every day order type customers are home then it’s not as bad as those who are never in and their neighbours look absolutely sick to their back teeth of reluctantly taking in their parcels for them - I’ve even had some start to refuse stating (understandably) it was getting out of hand as they already had a pile of parcels that hadn’t been picked up yet.



Impulse buying isn't it? As you can look at any time and any moment as soon as the thought comes into your head.

We bought our neighbour some chocolates and wine after a particular period of time when she took in loads of our parcels. Don't blame people who don't take them in tbh.


----------



## kenny g (Jan 12, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Maybe but there are definitely people who shop online every day - I’ve delivered in the same area over a 2 week period and delivered to the same addresses every day without fail.  Not sure why people don’t order everything in one go (other than the frivolity that free next day delivery unfortunately encourages).
> 
> If the every day order type customers are home then it’s not as bad as those who are never in and their neighbours look absolutely sick to their back teeth of reluctantly taking in their parcels for them - I’ve even had some start to refuse stating (understandably) it was getting out of hand as they already had a pile of parcels that hadn’t been picked up yet.



Had a neighbour going through a divorce/ separation and her purchases sky rocketed. shoes / perfume/ tat.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 12, 2020)

Not only impulse buying but comfort buying, greed and addiction as well, I wouldn't wonder.


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 12, 2020)

Wanted to watch Season 3 of Ash Vs Dead Season 3 which doesn’t seem available on Netflix but rather than get it off Amazon Prime (streaming) I thought I’d pop out to HMV, in and out no bother - however the gf decided to tag along and want to go bra shopping, go to the Apple store, House of Fraser etc  so I’m now letting her get on with it and am sitting in the car whilst she swans around with the masses of other shoppers, which I hate tbh but suppose it’s good to see bricks and mortar mall shops all busy today.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 12, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Wanted to watch Season 3 of Ash Vs Dead Season 3 which doesn’t seem available on Netflix but rather than get it off Amazon Prime (streaming) I thought I’d pop out to HMV, in and out no bother - however the gf decided to tag along and want to go bra shopping, go to the Apple store, House of Fraser etc  so I’m now letting her get on with it and am sitting in the car whilst she swans around with the masses of other shoppers, which I hate tbh but suppose it’s good to see bricks and mortar mall shops all busy today.



I had a well oiled plan with my ex, if she dragged me into town for shopping, I would moan & groan until I was allowed to exit stage left to the pub, and let her get on with it. 

The added bonus, she wouldn't spend too much more time shopping & spending, because she didn't want me getting too pissed during the day.


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 12, 2020)

__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.com
				




Another department store on the brink


----------



## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

Never heard of Beales. Where are their stores?

eta, seen answer in article.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 12, 2020)

Bournemouth?


----------



## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

Are category killer high street stores dead?

I mean stores like Toys-R-Us, Tie Rack etc?

Variants seem to live on online.


----------



## Marty1 (Jan 12, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Are category killer high street stores dead?
> 
> I mean stores like Toys-R-Us, Tie Rack etc?
> 
> Variants seem to live on online.



Smyths toys seem to be in most retail parks, don’t know how well they are doing but expect they benefited from Toys R Us closing up.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Smyths toys seem to be in most retail parks, don’t know how well they are doing but expect they benefited from Toys R Us closing up.


In the online area it is quite common to find for example a business selling only leather wallets. They probably couldn't exist irl. Likewise I found an online store only selling batteries recently.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jan 12, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Not only impulse buying but comfort buying, greed and addiction as well, I wouldn't wonder.



Well on top of that living in a society that is very demanding on your time already.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 12, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...





weltweit said:


> Never heard of Beales. Where are their stores?
> 
> eta, seen answer in article.



Beales are shite TBH, the Worthing store has been massively reduced in size, to allow upstairs to be converted into flats & new retail units at ground level, not surprised they are still in trouble - just hope my mates still working on that site get paid before any collapse of the business.


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

So a question to shopping people, high street shopping people ..

Which shops would you say are thriving on the high street at the moment?


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## Marty1 (Jan 12, 2020)

weltweit said:


> So a question to shopping people, high street shopping people ..
> 
> Which shops would you say are thriving on the high street at the moment?



Primark and Next are doing very well I’m the clothing sector fwiu.

Pandora for jewellery.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 12, 2020)

weltweit said:


> So a question to shopping people, high street shopping people ..
> 
> Which shops would you say are thriving on the high street at the moment?



Greggs.
Poundland.
Wilko.

Also Flying Tiger, though I have no ida why. It's virtually all useless tat, and cheap novelty crap.


----------



## stavros (Jan 12, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> however the gf decided to tag along and want to go bra shopping,



You should offer her your support.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Primark and Next are doing very well I’m the clothing sector fwiu.
> 
> Pandora for jewellery.



I was in Primark and Next last weekend, briefly, but neither had what I was looking for so I didn't make a purchase.



skyscraper101 said:


> Greggs.
> Poundland.
> Wilko.
> 
> Also Flying Tiger, though I have no ida why. It's virtually all useless tat, and cheap novelty crap.


I bought wrapping paper in Poundland before Christmas.

So, paid more for parking than I did in the shops.

And usually I make a point of parking for free.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 12, 2020)

Pounland has gone worse recently.  They are now regularly out of stock with what used to be reliable products such as chicken super noodles (2 for a pound), Bic Sensitive 2 blade with lubricatoin strip (pack of 5 for a quid), and more varieties Fray Bentos - now they only seem to do 'chicken'.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 13, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Greggs.
> Poundland.
> Wilko.
> 
> Also Flying Tiger, though I have no ida why. It's virtually all useless tat, and cheap novelty crap.



Tiger used to have some ok kitchen and house stuff but they seem to hsbe ramped up the novelty tat the last year or two.


----------



## MickiQ (Jan 13, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> I had a well oiled plan with my ex, if she dragged me into town for shopping, I would moan & groan until I was allowed to exit stage left to the pub, and let her get on with it.
> 
> The added bonus, she wouldn't spend too much more time shopping & spending, because she didn't want me getting too pissed during the day.


It's when Mrs Q wants to go shopping that I truly appreciate having adult daughters


----------



## Cloo (Jan 13, 2020)

It seems like overall we have to accept that shops just aren't going to be as profitable as they once were, but they're still needed because ultimately we will never buy _everything _online. So we somehow need to make them cheaper to run - business rates being the obvious thing to cut, but obviously a problem to replace as income (best option would be some kind of online transaction tax to subsidise shops perhaps?).

I was thinking about this reading this guardian article about how many shops in San Francisco are closing as the gentrifiers buy a lot of stuff online and don't use local shops, even as house prices go up. Abandoned stores, empty homes: why San Francisco's economic boom looks like a crisis | Adrian Daub So even if the hipsters don't need local shops, other people still do and you need to make them available


----------



## Cid (Jan 13, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Primark and Next are doing very well I’m the clothing sector fwiu.
> 
> Pandora for jewellery.



Along similar lines TK Maxx... Cosmetics stuff still doing ok I think; e.g Lush.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jan 13, 2020)

Out of interest when people talk about their local high street do we include central places in this? My high street is fairly busy and has a number of shops including a the standard greasy spoon which I love, charity shops, general house goods store and then more specialist electrical shop, and then a fancy deli and Bistro. Sadly we lost the Greengrocer. It's also changing gradually and I do envision gentrification being a big issue soon as some flats near by have gone for £1k plus a month and bigged up the Bistro and slightly more posh pub in their sales blurb. 

This high street is quite busy most of the time and I use it weekly. I hardly ever go into "town" where there are your standard shops listed in this page and then Cabot Circus which is full of department stores. 

All the above shops and the ones we discuss are often the big shops that have been shit for ages and are usually away from areas where people live. 

I've written extensively that I don't agree with boycotting as a principle, but I am ditching my beloved kindle this year and signing back up to the library. I'd love a little book shop near by, but there is no way I am going to consider Waterstones as an alternative I'm afraid as I see them as being pretty shit themselves. 

My friend is running a local craft shop and has made it a part of the community holding events etc with effective social media output. She's doing great and I think it shows that if you can diversify then it works. I also agree with the points made about business rates and property rents. We had discussed setting up a community based shop selling clothes/crafts and a small cafe, but making it so that it was a space people could use for groups, workshops for low rates/free etc. It's daunting though with the rates that are charged etc and without any money behind you to suck up any initial loss. Personally not sure I'd feel comfortable doing something like that now anyway.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 15, 2020)

He sold his flat and sleeps on a camp bed to keep the bookshop going
 Bookshop inundated after 'tumbleweed' tweet


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jan 20, 2020)

Another department store has goes under...








						Beales goes into administration with 22 stores and 1,300 jobs at risk
					

Department store chain collapses - see the full list of stores below




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## hash tag (Feb 4, 2020)

I know it's not high street and I know that ikea are one of the worst tax avoiders in the world but it is another 350 workers jobs at risk.
OK, we will find them jobs in neighbouring stores but it's what 30 miles to the next nearest store and there are knock on business's who
rely on Ikea and its staff for trade 








						Ikea announces first big UK store closure
					

The Swedish furniture giant's Coventry branch will close this summer, putting 352 jobs at risk.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 4, 2020)

hash tag said:


> I know it's not high street and I know that ikea are one of the worst tax avoiders in the world but it is another 350 workers jobs at risk.
> OK, we will find them jobs in neighbouring stores but it's what 30 miles to the next nearest store and there are knock on business's who
> rely on Ikea and its staff for trade
> 
> ...



Seems like specific problems with that store's location in the city centre, whereas most branches are in out of town locations.

We are due to get a branch soon, next to Shoreham Airport, which will make the traffic chaos on the A27 even worst.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 4, 2020)

Isn't Shoreham a little out of the way for Brighton folk or are they hoping to attarct the Worthing crowd also?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 4, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Isn't Shoreham a little out of the way for Brighton folk or are they hoping to attarct the Worthing crowd also?



They will pull people from right across both East & West Sussex, and probably the southern parts of Kent & Surrey too - the nearest branches currently are Croydon & Southampton.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 4, 2020)

A single, simple word of advice. Don't.


----------



## muscovyduck (Feb 4, 2020)

How's everyone's local market halls doing? A few high streets I'm familiar with in England have had lots of new businesses move into the market halls while the rest of the shops on the street stay closed. This is after these markets looked like they were going to be the next thing to shut down in their areas a couple years ago. Would be interesting to find out whether it's just a coincidence or whether there's a more general trend.


----------



## Marty1 (Feb 4, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I was in Primark and Next last weekend, briefly, but neither had what I was looking for so I didn't make a purchase.
> 
> 
> I bought wrapping paper in Poundland before Christmas.
> ...



There’s a small retail place right in the centre of Middlesbrough that charges £1.60 for parking (don’t know how long you get for that) - you can’t get in unless you pay at the barrier which gives you a token to get back out again.  I think that’s a fortune to pay tbh - but, the crafty sods have placed the Amazon locker just within the car park barrier, likely hoping delivery drivers like me will stump up £1.60 just to gain access for 5mins.  Instead I park further up the road in a loading bay and walk down with parcel bag


----------



## hash tag (Feb 5, 2020)

Tooting Market has lost all of it's character, it's now more akin to a box park with trendy resturants and bars...https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/tooting-market.350198/


----------



## hash tag (Feb 5, 2020)

Speaking of Ikea, who knew sleepovers was a thing? 
BBC News - Ikea says illegal teenage sleepovers must end








						Ikea says illegal teenage sleepovers must end
					

Ikea urges teenagers to stop having sleepovers in its stores, after a YouTube video went viral.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 8, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's now been confirmed 12 stores are to close, whilst they continue to try a buyer for the other 11.









						Beales in Worthing to close with 11 other stores
					

DEPARTMENT chain Beales is to close 12 of its stores after efforts to sell all 23 failed, according to administrators KPMG.




					www.theargus.co.uk


----------



## StoneRoad (Feb 8, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's now been confirmed 12 stores are to close, whilst they continue to try a buyer for the other 11.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The one in Hexham - which used to be Robbs, who also had Tynedale Park (sold to Tesco. who had been refused planning for their own intended site) has been "closed" and "re-opened" as a Trading Outlet / Concession site. Very sad at the moment.
I blame Tescox and online shopping.  - also for the closure of bank / PO branches.
On a recent visit to Hexham, there were at least six empty units in and around the High Street. Over the past year, closures included a busy fruit/veg shop, two caffs and one site had been a charity shop. The secondhand bookshop (also a well-known chairity) seems to have given up actually organising the shelves in any way, which stops any finding anything unless you want to spend ages searching /browsing.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 14, 2020)

StoneRoad said:


> Over the past year, closures included a busy fruit/veg shop'



News today that a large family run greengrocer is closing in Worthing, after 3 generations have clocked up 90 years of trading.  

In other news, Virgin is also closing in town, together with another 24 outlets across the country.



> Virgin Media has announced it is to close 25 of its stores across the UK, resulting in the loss of 110 jobs.
> The decision will leave just 53 existing branches in the country, although it is feared that more closures will follow as the chain continues further investment in online sales.











						Virgin Media announces closure of 25 UK stores - here’s the full list of locations
					

Virgin Media has announced it is to close 25 of its stores across the UK, resulting in the loss of 110 jobs.




					www.worthingherald.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 19, 2020)

More bad news for the High Street.

1 - Beales Department stores, 12 branches already closed, now the last 11 are closing as no buyer could be found.









						Full list of remaining Beales stores set to close
					

Efforts to sell the stores failed.




					www.theargus.co.uk
				




2 - Shoe Zone says it mat have to close 100 out of their 500 branches.









						Uncertain future for Sussex stores as national chain warns it could close 100 branches
					

A national chain, which has stores across Sussex, has warned it could be forced to close as many as 100 of its branches, if business rates do not change.




					www.worthingherald.co.uk
				




3 - Laura Ashley is in trouble & trying to raise more funding from their lender.









						Laura Ashley could be the next brand to leave our high streets as sales fall significantly
					

Struggling fashion and home retailer Laura Ashley is in talks with its lender about securing enough money to allow the brand to continue trading.




					www.worthingherald.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Feb 19, 2020)

Laura Ashley looks doomed.
FWIW; I have been toying with a purchase or two in the coming days and weeks. Is this weird or what? I research the brand and specification on line and check for rough prices.
I then go to a shop to try it out and see what its like in the flesh and then buy it over the counter. I could not, would not buy a big ticket item online.
I have just noticed our local massive Currys/PC World/Comet is now closed.....


----------



## hash tag (Mar 5, 2020)

Waitrose shops to close and maybe a John Lewis store or two; just whatever next?








						John Lewis staff bonus at 67-year low as more closures announced
					

Three Waitrose stores to shut this year, putting about 400 jobs at risk




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## cybershot (Mar 12, 2020)

Shopping centre giant Intu warns it could go bust
					

The owner of the Trafford Centre and Lakeside shopping centres reports a loss of £2bn.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 12, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Shopping centre giant Intu warns it could go bust
> 
> 
> The owner of the Trafford Centre and Lakeside shopping centres reports a loss of £2bn.
> ...



At the same time, Intu has run up debts of nearly £5bn.


----------



## seeformiles (Mar 12, 2020)

muscovyduck said:


> How's everyone's local market halls doing? A few high streets I'm familiar with in England have had lots of new businesses move into the market halls while the rest of the shops on the street stay closed. This is after these markets looked like they were going to be the next thing to shut down in their areas a couple years ago. Would be interesting to find out whether it's just a coincidence or whether there's a more general trend.



Leeds market is a shadow of its former self. For example, “Butchers’ Row” used to have over 25 shops - now there is just one. A whole block of stalls has been removed in the centre of the covered section to create a performance space - but who the fuck wants to play in a cavernous metal roofed concrete-floored area with shit acoustics? And what has that got to do with a market anyway? Over the last few years, LCC have been upping rents while access to the market (& footfall) was partially blocked by the construction of a new John Lewis store that also removed a cheap open car park (replaced by an expensive JL version). Rates at the old multi-storey by the market have soared as well thus pretty much wiping out any savings made by shopping there in the first place. LCC also have the stupid notion that the market will benefit from passing trade from JL customers. If you can afford to spend £70 on a scatter cushion, I hardly think you’re counting the pennies to the extent that you’ll make a diversion to the outdoor market for cut price veg. The outdoor veg section lives on (just) but the soul has been ripped out of a place that was once the biggest covered market in Europe by a pack of clueless twats who I doubt ever shopped there in the first place. Bastards.


----------



## Marty1 (Mar 12, 2020)

Seems to be getting worse by the day.



> The owner of the MetroCentre and Eldon Square shopping malls has warned it could go bust if it cannot raise further funds as it slumped to a £2 billion annual loss.











						Metrocentre and Eldon Square owner warns it could go bust as losses hit £2bn
					

The owner of the MetroCentre and Eldon Square shopping malls has warned it could go bust if it cannot raise further funds as it slumped to a £2…




					www.hexham-courant.co.uk


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 17, 2020)

Carphone Warehouse, gone. Haven't been in one for years myself.









						All 531 Carphone warehouse stores to close with 2,900 jobs at risk
					

Dixons Carphone decided it would simple sell phones through its Currys PC World branches and shutter all of its standalone Carphone Warehouse stores seeing 2,900 workers put at risk of losing their jobs




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 17, 2020)

That's a lot of jobs gone.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 17, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Shopping centre giant Intu warns it could go bust
> 
> 
> The owner of the Trafford Centre and Lakeside shopping centres reports a loss of £2bn.
> ...



They're halfway through demolishing and rebuilding a shopping centre here in Nottingham. It's right by the station and you basically have to go through it to get into the city centre. I fully expect it to be abandoned in its current skeletal state any day now, leaving a vast and hideous scar on the city.

Inevitable questions about why the city council gave a company that was already listing to port the green light to start such a big project.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 17, 2020)

Pretty much every single last business small or large is doomed under current forecasts and status quo. Government this morning now openly saying shutdown will last months.

Amazon are hiring though


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 17, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Carphone Warehouse, gone. Haven't been in one for years myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Had no idea they were still around. Who goes in to a shop to buy a phone these days?


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 17, 2020)

Coronavirus is going to be the final nail in the coffin for a lot of firms in this position.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 17, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> Coronavirus is going to be the final nail in the coffin for a lot of firms in this position.


Most people not employed by the state are fucked unless the government step in. That includes me btw, I'm not being flippant


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 17, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Had no idea they were still around. Who goes in to a shop to buy a phone these days?



Me, I like to see the size and weight and if I can take the battery out.

A new phone every 5 years isn’t enough to support them clearly though.


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 17, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Me, I like to see the size and weight and if I can take the battery out.
> 
> A new phone every 5 years isn’t enough to support them clearly though.


The shop is the entirety of their business, the phone shops run by the networks are a customer front end to all the services they provide, they can afford to run them as loss leaders and subsidise them on the dosh they make from the services they provide.
Carphone Warehouse can't, they sell a phone maybe get a commission on selling a contract and then that's it. They were doomed the moment that Vodafone and O2 et al started having a high street presence of their own.


----------



## souljacker (Mar 17, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Carphone Warehouse, gone. Haven't been in one for years myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not actually gone just getting rid of their standalone stores but keeping the ones still in PC World and Currys.


----------



## souljacker (Mar 17, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> They were doomed the moment that Vodafone and O2 et al started having a high street presence of their own.



Doomed? £10bn revenue?


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 17, 2020)

souljacker said:


> Doomed? £10bn revenue?


It's not revenue that Currys/Dixon are going to lose, they can still sell phones through their other branches and other stuff besides, The only losers of course are the people in the shops who aren't absorbed into the rest of the corporate structure.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 17, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Carphone Warehouse, gone. Haven't been in one for years myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was a bit of a surprise.


Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Had no idea they were still around. Who goes in to a shop to buy a phone these days?


Me. I would never buy a phone without checking it out in the flesh before buying it. I like to check the size, weight, quality and general feel of it as well as spec.


----------



## platinumsage (Mar 17, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Had no idea they were still around. Who goes in to a shop to buy a phone these days?



My mum goes to EE shops to buy top-ups and also to get them to change the clock twice a year.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 17, 2020)

Laura Ashley now also gone.









						Coronavirus: Laura Ashley set to become first retail casualty of crisis
					

Retail analysts warn Laura Ashley will be the first of many retailers, in non-essential spending categories, to face defeat




					news.sky.com


----------



## hash tag (Mar 17, 2020)

^^^ was just reading that. Never a fan myself but very sorry for the staff. Im not convined it was down to the virus though ^^^


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> ^^^ was just reading that. Never a fan myself but very sorry for the staff. Im not convined it was down to the virus though ^^^



More that they didn’t have products for sale that anyone would want to buy.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 17, 2020)

There was me thinking Laura Ashley was the perfect fit for Guildford and surrounds.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> There was me thinking Laura Ashley was the perfect fit for Guildford and surrounds.



There is a store in Guildford, but it’s a bit of a grubby town, attracts a lot of Clapham people who can no longer afford Clapham...


----------



## hash tag (Mar 17, 2020)

Funny you should say that. Just down from Ashley's there was a bread stall that sold Mrs Ts favourite bread for less than half the price here


----------



## UrbaneFox (Mar 17, 2020)

hash tag said:


> ^^^ was just reading that. Never a fan myself but very sorry for the staff. Im not convined it was down to the virus though ^^^


It has been crap for years. Never recovered from LAs death,


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 27, 2020)

Bright House is going into administration! 









						Coronavirus: Collapse of rent-to-own giant BrightHouse puts 2,400 jobs at risk
					

Britain’s biggest rent-to-own chain will file for administration on Monday, putting 2400 jobs at risk, Sky News learns.




					news.sky.com
				




Half sorry for the staff, but they chose to work for the cunts.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 30, 2020)

Just heard Carluccio's has gone into administration. I am guessing that in these troubled times if anyone is in difficulties,
the current crisis will push them over the edge.
I am guessing this will mean the staff won't get a penny and will now be waiting for benefits


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 30, 2020)

Please let Wagamama survive. And Wasabi. 🤞


----------



## jeff_leigh (Mar 30, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Bright House is going into administration!
> Half sorry for the staff, but they chose to work for the cunts.


Yeah, Like being a Concentration camp Guard innit ?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 30, 2020)

jeff_leigh said:


> Yeah, Like being a Concentration camp Guard innit ?



 I wouldn't go that far. 

Anyway, going, going, gone...









						BrightHouse enters administration - with 2,400 jobs at risk
					

The store, which offers loans to customers to purchase electrical items such as TVs and washing machines, has been struggling financially for years




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 31, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Please let Wagamama survive. And Wasabi. 🤞



Ive not had a decent meal at wagamamas since 2010.

And never at wasabi.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 31, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Ive not had a decent meal at wagamamas since 2010.
> 
> And never at wasabi.



Sorry to hear that. I can honestly say Wagamama has been consistently good for me since the first time.

Wasabi is more fast food obvs but I do love their Katsu Chicken Curry boxes.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 31, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sorry to hear that. I can honestly say Wagamama has been consistently good for me since the first time.
> 
> Wasabi is more fast food obvs but I do love their Katsu Chicken Curry boxes.



The menus changed a lot and it’s now just random heavily trendy western food with an Asian name so.

Wasabi the last time I risked a katsu (and I’ve eaten a good portion of the katsu for sale in square mile) i could shave with the chicken and this was at lunchtime not scrag-end o’clock.


----------



## clicker (Mar 31, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Ive not had a decent meal at wagamamas since 2010.
> 
> And never at wasabi.


All I can hear now is prince Andrew's voice.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 3, 2020)

Debenhams in administration for second time.









						Coronavirus: Struggling Debenhams to put administrators on standby
					

Debenhams, which employs 22,000 people, could signal a plan to appoint administrators next week, Sky News learns.




					news.sky.com


----------



## hash tag (Apr 6, 2020)

WHSmith to follow


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 6, 2020)

hash tag said:


> WHSmith to follow



Really?  I thought they had been doing well recently.  They make massive margin in their rip off shops.


----------



## ska invita (Apr 6, 2020)

hash tag said:


> WHSmith to follow


Too many post offices to fail ?
May eventually have to be nationalised on those grounds?


----------



## hash tag (Apr 6, 2020)

The last few times I have been to Smiths they have appeared to be on their last legs; untidy, poorly lit, smelling cold and damp,
only ground floor kept going in some of them; the writing has been there for a while methinks.


----------



## ska invita (Apr 6, 2020)

hash tag said:


> The last few times I have been to Smiths they have appeared to be on their last legs; untidy, poorly lit, smelling cold and damp,
> only ground floor kept going in some of them; the writing has been there for a while methinks.


yes...but where would post offices go next?


----------



## hash tag (Apr 6, 2020)

pubs, house of fraser, wetherspoons....


----------



## hash tag (Apr 14, 2020)

I'm sure there won't be the last...another 2000+ jobs


----------



## 8115 (Apr 14, 2020)

Oasis and Warehouse in big trouble.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 14, 2020)

8115 said:


> Oasis and Warehouse in big trouble.



Left a support role with them last year (voluntarily) surprised they lasted this long. Very disorganised lot.

Plus horrible clothes.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 14, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Left a support role with them last year (voluntarily) surprised they lasted this long. Very disorganised lot.
> 
> Plus horrible clothes.


I quite like Warehouse clothes. Oasis clothes are all nasty material and small sizes. Having said that I haven't shopped at either for a while.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 14, 2020)

Gonna be loads of cheap commercial rentals available soon aren't there, and with low/no business rates for at least the first year. Might get a shop and just whack a sofa and a kettle in it so people wander in and then we'll see what happens from there


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 14, 2020)

utterly shit for anyone working in retail ATM.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 14, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> utterly shit for anyone working in retail ATM.



Will get shitter for retail, hospitality etc when govt interventions dry up and the recession means everybody is skint and not spending


----------



## mx wcfc (Apr 14, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Will get shitter for retail, hospitality etc when govt interventions dry up and the recession means everybody is skint and not spending


Even the online clothes retailers seem to be struggling judging buy the adverts for sales on my social media.  I guess even the lucky ones still on full pay are avoiding unnecessary spending, in case they are furloughed, and because there's no point in buying new clothes to sit in the house in.


----------



## Callum91 (Apr 15, 2020)

mx wcfc said:


> Even the online clothes retailers seem to be struggling judging buy the adverts for sales on my social media.  I guess even the lucky ones still on full pay are avoiding unnecessary spending, in case they are furloughed, and because there's no point in buying new clothes to sit in the house in.


I'm on furlough, chef in the pub industry.  The only spending I've done on none essentials is buying supplies to paint to keep myself distracted.

The CEO of Stonegate keeps telling us all he's optimistic and that ALL the pubs will re-open again but... I live in fucking Blackpool, the loss of a summer like this is going to wipe the town off the map. The high street here was already past terminal and I really don't see how the thousands of small hotels and B&B's can possibly continue when the notion of a customer base isn't going to become a reality until perhaps next year (both cos nobody is allowed out of the fucking house and even if they do they have no cash).


----------



## ska invita (Apr 15, 2020)

Callum91 said:


> I'm on furlough, chef in the pub industry.  The only spending I've done on none essentials is buying supplies to paint to keep myself distracted.
> 
> The CEO of Stonegate keeps telling us all he's optimistic and that ALL the pubs will re-open again but... I live in fucking Blackpool, the loss of a summer like this is going to wipe the town off the map. The high street here was already past terminal and I really don't see how the thousands of small hotels and B&B's can possibly continue when the notion of a customer base isn't going to become a reality until perhaps next year (both cos nobody is allowed out of the fucking house and even if they do they have no cash).


Yeah anywhere in the world reliant on tourist trade is going to be gutted from this year. In the UK it's the seaside towns probably the most vulnerable...though maybe one lifeline, if there is a let off of lockdown in summer, there'll be more staycationing? But still, definitely going to take lots down unless the government gives out a lot more money


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 15, 2020)

Callum91 said:
			
		

> The CEO of Stonegate keeps telling us all he's optimistic and that ALL the pubs will re-open again but... *I live in fucking Blackpool, the loss of a summer like this is going to wipe the town off the map.* The high street here was already past terminal and I really don't see how the thousands of small hotels and B&B's can possibly continue when the notion of a customer base isn't going to become a reality until perhaps next year (both cos nobody is allowed out of the fucking house and even if they do they have no cash).





ska invita said:


> Yeah anywhere in the world reliant on tourist trade is going to be gutted from this year. In the UK it's the seaside towns probably the most vulnerable...though maybe one lifeline, *if there is a let off of lockdown in summer, there'll be more staycationing?* But still, definitely going to take lots down unless the government gives out a lot more money



That's one half-decent hope for people in Callum91 's position, I'd very tentatively venture.

I really appreciate that Blackpool is in a shite position, but I still think it's a bit too early to write off the entire summer yet (note emphasis).


----------



## Callum91 (Apr 15, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Yeah anywhere in the world reliant on tourist trade is going to be gutted from this year. In the UK it's the seaside towns probably the most vulnerable...though maybe one lifeline, if there is a let off of lockdown in summer, there'll be more staycationing? But still, definitely going to take lots down unless the government gives out a lot more money


If people are too scared to travel abroad, or if the government starts imposing health based travel restrictions etc then I do think Blackpool could (after the local council is purged of the fucking loons) seriously rebrand itself as the fun capital of the UK once again. We do have a massive, clean beach. We have the space. It would take a few billion from the central government to clean the place up, bulldoze most of the town center and the slum areas surrounding, knock the piers down and build bigger, better ones, build a second damn tower! Pay off the small hotel owners that want out and let new enterprise move in. Get the army of beggars off the streets to stop them harassing families that come here for fun. GET THE AIRPORT BACK. 

It could be done. But it won't. Winter is coming for Blackpool. It's fucking GRIM here in winter...


----------



## ska invita (Apr 15, 2020)

Id add plant some trees and plants to that list. What has Blackpool got against greenery?


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 15, 2020)

Callum91 said:


> If people are too scared to travel abroad, or if the government starts imposing health based travel restrictions etc then I do think Blackpool could (after the local council is purged of the fucking loons) seriously rebrand itself as the fun capital of the UK once again. We do have a massive, clean beach. We have the space. It would take a few billion from the central government to clean the place up, bulldoze most of the town center and the slum areas surrounding, knock the piers down and build bigger, better ones, build a second damn tower! Pay off the small hotel owners that want out and let new enterprise move in. Get the army of beggars off the streets to stop them harassing families that come here for fun. GET THE AIRPORT BACK.
> 
> It could be done. But it won't. *Winter is coming for Blackpool.* It's fucking GRIM here in winter...



Not just yet, man! August and especially September are a long way off still ......

I *really* hope anyway that thinks turn out better than you think for you and the town this year, Callum91 !
Somehow, anyway -- good luck!


----------



## Callum91 (Apr 15, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> That's one half-decent hope for people in Callum91 's position, I'd very tentatively venture.
> 
> I really appreciate that Blackpool is in a shite position, but I still think it's a bit too early to write off the entire summer yet (note emphasis).


The pub sector here at this time of the year in particular has become heavily reliant on all the student farmers coming here for their annual mega piss up. Nets my pub £150K+, it's one of the reasons we're allowed to stay open. There's no chance of that now, or in the near future. The summer trade is decent but not enough without that farmers week, and then after October it drops off a cliff and Winter sets in. Christmas bookings for the past few years have been abysmal.


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 15, 2020)

Read earlier that Primark and Next currently have £15 billion of spring and summer stock either in stock or sat at suppliers they can’t sell yet.
Bargains to be had in autumn for next year maybe?


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 15, 2020)

Callum91 said:


> The pub sector here at this time of the year in particular has become heavily reliant on all the student farmers coming here for their annual mega piss up. Nets my pub £150K+, it's one of the reasons we're allowed to stay open. There's no chance of that now, or in the near future. The summer trade is decent but not enough without that farmers week, and then after October it drops off a cliff and Winter sets in. Christmas bookings for the past few years have been abysmal.



Cheers (or not!) for that -- there's nothing like local knowledge 
You might have to hope that some student farmer gangs put off their piss up week until when it does becomes possible for them.
Grasping at straws there though, I confess


----------



## Callum91 (Apr 15, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> Cheers (or not!) for that -- there's nothing like local knowledge
> You might have to hope that some student farmer gangs put off their piss up week until when it does becomes possible for them.
> Grasping at straws there though, I confess


I could say more but... never know who's reading this . Needlessly to say, we treat them rather ironically, like lambs to our slaughter.

Edit ; Any expense caused due to damage is miraculously found...somehow


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 15, 2020)

It is clutching at straws a bit I suspect any part of the UK's tourist industry which mainly caters for UK citizens will probably come off better than the sectors that rely on international travel.  I just can't see large scale international travel happening for ages .  Problem is I can't really see the pubs and restaurants being allowed to reopen for a long time either.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 15, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> Not just yet, man! August and especially September are a long way off still ......
> 
> I *really* hope anyway that thinks turn out better than you think for you and the town this year, Callum91 !
> Somehow, anyway -- good luck!


You know the Edinburgh Festival has already been cancelled, William? August isn't happening this year.


----------



## Callum91 (Apr 15, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> It is clutching at straws a bit I suspect any part of the UK's tourist industry which mainly caters for UK citizens will probably come off better than the sectors that rely on international travel.  I just can't see large scale international travel happening for ages .  Problem is I can't really see the pubs and restaurants being allowed to reopen for a long time either.


If governments across the world have collectively decided to use Covid-19 as an excuse to start resource control then I can definitely see the writing on the wall for pubs/clubs/restaurants in general, the idea of over consumption is going the way of the Do-Do. There _are _too many fast food outlets and now we have to accept the fact huge swathes of young workers are gonna find themselves permanently without access to an easy ''first job''. 

Even before this pandemic there had been alot of pressure in my company to really reduce resource use, turning heat lamps off as soon as the orders go out, turning the heat down on ovens etc. The money just isn't there.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 15, 2020)

8115 said:


> Oasis and Warehouse in big trouble.



Just confirmed they have gone into administration.









						Oasis and Warehouse collapse into administration with 2,300 jobs at risk
					

British fashion retailers Oasis and Warehouse have fallen into administration, joining a growing list of stores pushed over the edge by the coronavirus emergency




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## Hollis (Apr 15, 2020)

I've been vaguely trying to work out how exposed business are like this - even with government measures.  While they can put their staff all out to furlough, I guess rent still has to be paid eventually - so a 'holiday' doesn't do much good.  They'll then be all the other standing costs that aren't covered and interest will still eventually have to be paid on debt... are there any other government schemes they can tap into?

One of our suppliers - a caterer - clearly wanted to go into hibernation - rather than try to deliver any services..


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 15, 2020)

weepiper said:


> You know the Edinburgh Festival has already been cancelled, William? August isn't happening this year.



Edinburgh's enormous -- quite right that events as mega as that have been cancelled.
But 'August isn't happening' is too sweeping an _overall_ statement at this stage, I'd say.

*Smaller* happenings in places like Blackpool, e.g. a few staycations, some shops or even bars! reopened, etc., *might* still occur by August or September. 
Under terms and conditions, obviously. And I emphasise _might_ ....

I did suggest 'might' in my original post too, and I repeat that for now.
It's all about the _details_ of how (and which aspects of) lockdowns are released/relaxed, *and when*.

At this point I still think it's a tad premature to say *all* aspects of August/September everywhere are full-on cancelled.


----------



## Cloo (Apr 15, 2020)

My guess, and it's suggested by thinking of people in the know about public health etc, is that any easing of lockdown will be on a local level and movement between different parts of the country may well be constrained for a good while.

Part of me thinks there is a degree of opportunity for local high streets in some areas - perhaps you could open up 'non-essential' shops in secondary/tertiary local high streets (like ours) long before you can open up prime city centre or malls. I mean, if you think about our local flower shop, or bed shop, or games shop, you seldom see for than two customers in at a time, so you could manage distancing at their normal level of custom. Maybe clothes, leisure or homeware chains could open 'pop ups' in these sorts of high streets for 6-18 months - fuck knows there's enough empty shops about. I appreciate many of them are not the right dimensions, but it could be worth a try so these shops can reach customers, employ people and keep afloat.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 18, 2020)

Arcadia Group may permanently shut down stores amid Covid-19 crisis
					

Philip Green’s fashion group serves notice on landlords but move may signal negotiations rather than closures




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## kebabking (Apr 18, 2020)

whenever the restrictions start to ease off we won't be going overseas - _everyone_ in the medical profession is saying that this thing is going to go in peaks and troughs for the next 18 months or so, and that restrictions are going to ebb and fall: i simply have no intention of going to Greece or wherever and enjoying a nice two week holiday only to discover that our flight home has been cancelled, with it taking the FCO another month to get us back to the UK.

we'll stay in the UK, go self catering so we're not dependant on others or next to others, but i'm afraid we won't be going to blackpool...


----------



## 8115 (May 22, 2020)

Bella Italia and Cafe Rouge in big trouble.


----------



## purenarcotic (May 22, 2020)

8115 said:


> Bella Italia and Cafe Rouge in big trouble.



Their food is rubbish tbf (obviously total shite for their workers).


----------



## cybershot (May 22, 2020)

Agreed, would never use either unless I have a massive discount voucher.


----------



## 8115 (May 22, 2020)

I agree Bella Pasta is awful, I actually really like Cafe Rouge and the french style atmosphere. Having said that I have only been 3 times in my life.


----------



## mx wcfc (May 22, 2020)

8115 said:


> I agree Bella Pasta is awful, I actually really like Cafe Rouge and the french style atmosphere. Having said that I have only been 3 times in my life.


I used to like Cafe Rouge for the same reason.  iirc, they used to have an excellent beer list.  Then, I think, it changed hands, went down hill, and I haven't been for years.  

Bella Pasta was just another run of the mill chain pizza/pasta place.  No surprise at all that's gone.


----------



## 8115 (May 22, 2020)

If Frankie and Benny's survive then my theory that it's a massive money laundering operation looks basically proven.


----------



## Tankus (May 23, 2020)

My next couple of holidays are going to be at home with the money spent on DIY projects.... And start saving harder overall, for a bigger safety net.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 23, 2020)

Tankus said:


> My next couple of holidays are going to be at home with the money spent on DIY projects.... And start saving harder overall, for a bigger safety net.


I think people future proofing will become a growing interest/activity.


----------



## hash tag (May 23, 2020)

I appreciate it is not shops, but it is local holidays. My father used to go away with Shearings quite a lot. Lot's more jobs gone...thinks, could the coaches and drivers be quickly redeployed 
to help keep transport less crowded as people start to return to work?








						Specialist Leisure Group collapses into administration
					

More than 64,000 bookings have been cancelled due to the collapse of Specialist Leisure Group.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Aladdin (May 23, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Yeah anywhere in the world reliant on tourist trade is going to be gutted from this year. In the UK it's the seaside towns probably the most vulnerable...though maybe one lifeline, if there is a let off of lockdown in summer, there'll be more staycationing? But still, definitely going to take lots down unless the government gives out a lot more money




This is the hope / dread here in Ireland. 
That the restrictions will be eased by August and people will get a seaside holiday at home. 
Its a double edged sword though. It might save certain tourist spot businesses and it would be good for people's mental health to get a holiday.but it will risk a second wave that could close everything in Sept and put us back at square one.


----------



## Cloo (May 23, 2020)

Sprocket. said:


> I think people future proofing will become a growing interest/activity.


Generally, if people have any sense (they probably don't) society and economics would move away from growth and towards resilience - this whole thing has shown that a pan-global problem brings everything grinding to a disasterous halt.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 25, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're halfway through demolishing and rebuilding a shopping centre here in Nottingham. It's right by the station and you basically have to go through it to get into the city centre. I fully expect it to be abandoned in its current skeletal state any day now, leaving a vast and hideous scar on the city.
> 
> Inevitable questions about why the city council gave a company that was already listing to port the green light to start such a big project.



the centre of Bradford was blighted for about a decade by a development that went under after the 2008 recession. Big hole, several hectares with hoarding around it.


----------



## Badgers (May 25, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Laura Ashley now also gone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of those businesses that was due to fold at some point regardless or Covid-19 or whatever. Sad for the staff of course but it was not a long term concern was it?


----------



## mx wcfc (May 25, 2020)

__





						Station Hill
					

A transformational development for Reading and the Thames Valley, a new centre of activity creating a connected live-work-play experience.




					www.stationhill.co.uk
				




This is the new development that is going on in Reading at the moment. 100,000 sq ft of  "lifestyle-led retail, and leisure".  600,000 sq ft of office space.  Last time I went in to work the phase one demolition was finishing.  With this acceleration of the death of high st shopping, and everyone now questioning whether offices are even necessary, this could end up being a big hole.


----------



## 8115 (May 28, 2020)

Monsoon Accessorize "on the brink".


----------



## hash tag (May 28, 2020)

I can't say I have ever used accessorise but another 3500 jobs at risk though. Another one helped on the way by our friends at Amazon.


----------



## bimble (May 28, 2020)

Badgers said:


> One of those businesses that was due to fold at some point regardless or Covid-19 or whatever. Sad for the staff of course but it was not a long term concern was it?


Yeah a very weird shop. There’s one in my nearest town and am mystified by the whole thing, clothes and sofas mixed together, all very overpriced and made of cheap materials , strange that they ever became a thing imo.


----------



## hash tag (May 28, 2020)

Laura Ashley? So quintessentially British and so very middle England. Perfect fit for a place like Guildford.


----------



## 8115 (Jun 4, 2020)

As predicted, Frankie and Benny's in trouble. Not reopening all outlets.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 5, 2020)

Victoria's Secret UK crashes into administration with hundreds of jobs at risk
					

The iconic brand, which runs branches across the UK and has several high profile fans, including Kylie Jenner, has called in Deloitte for a "light touch" administration, as 800 workers remain on furlough



					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Jun 5, 2020)

Oh dear, the elastic's snapped


----------



## stavros (Jun 5, 2020)

Can they not call in some support?


----------



## hash tag (Jun 5, 2020)

I know I'm old but hey, they should have had more support...it was all for show


----------



## hash tag (Jun 6, 2020)

Perhaps the, err, competition was just too stiff.


----------



## stavros (Jun 6, 2020)

A storm in a D-cup.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 17, 2020)

Not exactly 'high street', but the Travis Perkins group is closing 165 branches, with sad loss of 2,500 staff.   









						Covid: Wickes owner Travis Perkins to cut 2,500 jobs
					

The UK's biggest builders' merchant, Travis Perkins, is to cut 2,500 jobs and close 165 branches.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## muscovyduck (Jun 17, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Not exactly 'high street', but the Travis Perkins group is closing 165 branches, with sad loss of 2,500 staff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have to say last time I was in a Wickes it had a WHSmiths vibe about it


----------



## Tankus (Jun 17, 2020)

B&q seem to be doing more:" home bargains" / The Range line of products too


----------



## chilango (Jun 17, 2020)

Where's B&Q's market? Is there a consumer DIY demand anymore?

Boomers pay professionals to do their DIY.

Gen X are slackers.

Anyone younger is renting and is not allowed to do DIY.

...and the BTLers "do up" their investments with used chewing gum and bits of smashed up furniture they stole from previous tenants.


----------



## Doodler (Jun 17, 2020)

chilango said:


> Where's B&Q's market? Is there a consumer DIY demand anymore?
> 
> Boomers pay professionals to do their DIY.
> 
> ...



There's a huge market since many repair, fitting and decorating tasks can be done to an adequate standard by householders. Tradesmen's labour is usually expensive by many people's standards. Irksome chores like wallpapering have been made easier with paste-the-wall and other convenience products. There's an enormous amount of material on YouTube and elsewhere showing you how to do pretty much anything, even build a whole house from the foundations up.


----------



## chilango (Jun 17, 2020)

Doodler said:


> There's a huge market since many repair, fitting and decorating tasks can be done to an adequate standard by householders. Tradesmen's labour is usually expensive by many people's standards. Irksome chores like wallpapering have been made easier with paste-the-wall and other convenience products. There's an enormous amount of material on YouTube and elsewhere showing you how to do pretty much anything, even build a whole house from the foundations up.



I wasn't being entirely serious...


----------



## Doodler (Jun 17, 2020)

chilango said:


> I wasn't being entirely serious...





They might shut some of their big shed stores though and use high street shops instead as showrooms. Maybe retail parks are doomed?


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 17, 2020)

Last time I went into B&Q after Christmas was to buy a cordless drill. I was talking to one of their staff and he said, Get it at Screwfix mate it’s £25 cheaper. I know they are the same company but nice to tell me.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 17, 2020)

Doodler said:


> There's a huge market since many repair, fitting and decorating tasks can be done to an adequate standard by householders. Tradesmen's labour is usually expensive by many people's standards. Irksome chores like wallpapering have been made easier with paste-the-wall and other convenience products. There's an enormous amount of material on YouTube and elsewhere showing you how to do pretty much anything, even build a whole house from the foundations up.



I just get a friend to do it for me.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jun 17, 2020)

Sprocket. said:


> Last time I went into B&Q after Christmas was to buy a cordless drill. I was talking to one of their staff and he said, Get it at Screwfix mate it’s £25 cheaper. I know they are the same company but nice to tell me.



We used to do that at O2 even if it wasn't our store. 

We got some alright plants in B&Q last year.


----------



## Marty1 (Jun 24, 2020)

More bad news.









						Intu Metrocentre could be forced to shut if owner goes into administration
					

TWO major shopping centres in the North-East could be forced to shut for a 'period of time' if their owners fall into administration.




					www.thenorthernecho.co.uk


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 24, 2020)

Looks like out of town centres have had their day. Had to go to lakeside a few months ago/ it was more Moscow GUM c. 1988 than Harrods. Only the peripheral fast food joints in the car park seemed to havre any business


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 24, 2020)

Swissport dumping 4.5k  airport support Jobs as well


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 24, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Swissport dumping 4.5k  airport support Jobs as well


yeah they recently shut down operations in Belgium too


----------



## Doodler (Jun 24, 2020)

Cheap High Street properties might be attractive to large retail names for a showrooms plus distribution hub setup. Argos have something like this where a main county/regional store supplies stock to satellite stores. You can imagine in a few years time largely automated warehouses supplying high street showrooms with samples and 'essentials' product ranges doubling as click and collect points. One retail park chain is already exploring this.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 24, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Looks like out of town centres have had their day. Had to go to lakeside a few months ago/ it was more Moscow GUM c. 1988 than Harrods. Only the peripheral fast food joints in the car park seemed to havre any business


The Centre MK had a lot more empty units when we were there last November than in previous years.


----------



## stavros (Jun 24, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Looks like out of town centres have had their day. Had to go to lakeside a few months ago/ it was more Moscow GUM c. 1988 than Harrods. Only the peripheral fast food joints in the car park seemed to havre any business



You see, I always thought they'd outlive the high street, mainly because of the large amount of free parking. Unless the ones you're referring to charge...


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 26, 2020)

Not strictly high street, but still bricks & mortar. Camping shop Go Outdoors going down the toilet by the sound of things:









						Go Outdoors looks set to go into administration as parent company JD Sports updates City
					

Camping, cycling and outdoor retailer which trades from 67 stores lodges notice of intention to appoint administrators




					road.cc
				




There is some element of the world continuing to change with things like this, Go outdoors will have killed off a lot of high street camping shops (Millets etc.) when they started opening their out-of-town sheds, in a similar way to Toys’R‘us slaughtering all the local toy shops, now both falling aside due to things moving to internet sales. And so it goes.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 26, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> Not strictly high street, but still bricks & mortar. Camping shop Go Outdoors going down the toilet by the sound of things:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I read a report at the weekend that JD Sport intended to put Go Outdoors into administration, so they could buy it back in one of those dodgy pre-package deals.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jun 26, 2020)

This has been on the cards for a while - certainly not a surprise.









						Shopping centre giant Intu enters administration
					

Shopping centres including Trafford and Lakeside will continue to trade under administrators KPMG.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Marty1 (Jun 26, 2020)

mx wcfc said:


> This has been on the cards for a while - certainly not a surprise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> The significance of Intu's collapse "cannot be understated," said Richard Lim, chief executive of Retail Economics.
> 
> The coronavirus lockdown is speeding up a trend towards buying more consumer goods online, he said. He estimates 50% of workers normally can't receive parcels at work.





> But with many people spending most of their time at home, and car journeys to shopping centres discouraged, many of those people are now ordering via websites.



Looks like Covid has dramatically expedited many retailers demise. The question is - who’s next to fall?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 26, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Looks like Covid has dramatically expedited many retailers demise. The question is - who’s next to fall?



Westfield have got to be taking a hammering


----------



## Marty1 (Jun 26, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> Not strictly high street, but still bricks & mortar. Camping shop Go Outdoors going down the toilet by the sound of things:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The comparison between online and retail is a tale of boom and bust.

Since Covid kicked in every day for me and other teams of delivery drivers has been like Black  Friday and Xmas season rolled into one - I estimate that the Amazon depot I pick up from is turning over 60 - 70k parcels per day.


----------



## Marty1 (Jun 28, 2020)

The gf went to intu Metrocentre today and said it was very busy - she took some snaps:

Queue for Primark and JD Sports:



Apparently there’s a one way system in place that a lot of shoppers strayed from but there’s loads of additional staff advising stragglers to stay in their lane.


----------



## weepiper (Jun 28, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> The gf went to intu Metrocentre today and said it was very busy - she took some snaps:
> 
> Queue for Primark and JD Sports:
> View attachment 219905
> ...


Should that even be open yet?  I thought it was only retail spaces that had an outside door that were open, not shopping malls.

Edit, never mind. England has different rules to us.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 28, 2020)

weepiper said:


> Should that even be open yet?  I thought it was only retail spaces that had an outside door that were open, not shopping malls.
> 
> Edit, never mind. England has different rules to us.


ingerlaaand.....ingerlaaaand


----------



## Marty1 (Jun 28, 2020)

weepiper said:


> Should that even be open yet?  I thought it was only retail spaces that had an outside door that were open, not shopping malls.



Dunno but people don’t seem bothered.

She went there to go to a fitness store to order a exercise bike - that shop was only allowing 2 customers in at a time and had to wear a face mask.  From what I gather that shop is more like a showroom for you to try equipment out then it’s delivered to your home - she’s got to wait 6 weeks before delivery as they are struggling with surge of demand.

She did say she went to go into HMV but guy on the door said she would have to wait until someone came out as they’d reached their quota - she said it looked quite packed so she didn’t bother.

Edit:  just saw your edit.


----------



## weepiper (Jun 28, 2020)

So wait, you can't meet more than 6 people from two different households and you have to do it outdoors, but you can queue with 40-odd other households in an indoor shopping centre? That's fucking wild.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 2, 2020)

Café Rouge and Bella Italia owner falls into administration. Was on the cards for a while but another 1900 jobs gone, possibly more to follow. 









						Café Rouge and Bella Italia owner falls into administration
					

Ninety-one sites will close immediately with the loss of around 1,900 jobs.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Jul 9, 2020)

John Lewis and Boots closing stores and laying off a load of staff


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2020)

Badgers said:


> John Lewis and Boots closing stores and laying off a load of staff



5,300 jobs to go.   

Both were looking at closing stores before covid hit, so it looks like that has just speeded up the inevitable. 









						Coronavirus: John Lewis and Boots to cut 5,300 jobs
					

A day after the chancellor unveiled a plan to save jobs, two of the UK's biggest retailers announce cuts.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Jul 9, 2020)

Burger King closing approx 1 in 10 stores. 









						Burger King boss warns of UK job cuts
					

The UK boss of the fast food giant said the chain could cut between 5% and 10% of its staff.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 9, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> 5,300 jobs to go.
> 
> Both were looking at closing stores before covid hit, so it looks like that has just speeded up the inevitable.
> 
> ...


To be honest the tagline about the Chancellor unveiling a plan to save jobs is a bit  disingenuous, it would be more accurate to say:
"Chancellor unveils plan for firms that weren't really going to sack anyone to claim a £1000 per head bung in Jan by pretending they might have done"


----------



## Southlondon (Jul 9, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> The comparison between online and retail is a tale of boom and bust.
> 
> Since Covid kicked in every day for me and other teams of delivery drivers has been like Black  Friday and Xmas season rolled into one - I estimate that the Amazon depot I pick up from is turning over 60 - 70k parcels per day.


I can’t see how they can keep passing up the opportunity for a windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown.


Marty1 said:


> The comparison between online and retail is a tale of boom and bust.
> 
> Since Covid kicked in every day for me and other teams of delivery drivers has been like Black  Friday and Xmas season rolled into one - I estimate that the Amazon depot I pick up from is turning over 60 - 70k parcels per day.


This is why they should bring in a swift windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown. The supermarkets and convenience stores, takeaways that delivered throughout, courier firms, healthcare agencies, etc have all made a mint out of the world’s tragedy and I think it’s obscene for those lucky businesses to gorge themselves on profits they never expected, when the economy has taken the biggest hit ever and so many businesses are without income never mind profits. Follow that with a proper wealth tax and we would have the kind of money needed to really kickstart the economy and save jobs. But of course under our fucked up capitalism businesses expect to take out profits in the good times, and to put nothing back in the bad times.
as for the high streets and wet-led pubs, they were struggling beforehand and until they get the plague properly under control there’s  no way the majority of Shops  or pubs can survive with greatly reduced footfall and the additional costs of New health and safety Requirements Unless they’re heavily subsidised by the tax payer.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2020)

Southlondon said:


> I can’t see how they can keep passing up the opportunity for a windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown.
> 
> This is why they should bring in a swift windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown. The supermarkets and convenience stores, takeaways that delivered throughout, courier firms, healthcare agencies, etc have all made a mint out of the world’s tragedy and I think it’s obscene for those lucky businesses to gorge themselves on profits they never expected, when the economy has taken the biggest hit ever and so many businesses are without income never mind profits. Follow that with a proper wealth tax and we would have the kind of money needed to really kickstart the economy and save jobs. But of course under our fucked up capitalism businesses expect to take out profits in the good times, and to put nothing back in the bad times.
> as for the high streets and wet-led pubs, they were struggling beforehand and until they get the plague properly under control there’s  no way the majority of Shops  or pubs can survive with greatly reduced footfall and the additional costs of New health and safety Requirements Unless they’re heavily subsidised by the tax payer.



Well Amazon has boomed, but most of their profits from the UK disappear via Luxembourg, so no chance of a windfall tax hitting them.

Supermarkets haven't done very well, because of the extra costs in hiring extra staff to deal with online delivery orders, pickers & drivers, plus security staff too, as reflected by their share prices being well down.

And, I doubt any of the rest of your examples have done particularly well, just ticked over, and certainly not made a mint from it.


----------



## Big Bertha (Jul 9, 2020)

Southlondon said:


> I can’t see how they can keep passing up the opportunity for a windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown.
> 
> This is why they should bring in a swift windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown. The supermarkets and convenience stores, takeaways that delivered throughout, courier firms, healthcare agencies, etc have all made a mint out of the world’s tragedy and I think it’s obscene for those lucky businesses to gorge themselves on profits they never expected, when the economy has taken the biggest hit ever and so many businesses are without income never mind profits. Follow that with a proper wealth tax and we would have the kind of money needed to really kickstart the economy and save jobs. But of course under our fucked up capitalism businesses expect to take out profits in the good times, and to put nothing back in the bad times.
> as for the high streets and wet-led pubs, they were struggling beforehand and until they get the plague properly under control there’s  no way the majority of Shops  or pubs can survive with greatly reduced footfall and the additional costs of New health and safety Requirements Unless they’re heavily subsidised by the tax payer.


Hmm


----------



## Doodler (Jul 9, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> Not strictly high street, but still bricks & mortar. Camping shop Go Outdoors going down the toilet by the sound of things:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not really surprising. As well as online sales competition, Go Outdoors' price display system is unpopular (you need a store card to get the discount price, which is always in eyecatching big numerals) and their delivery and ordering system is unreliable.


----------



## Southlondon (Jul 9, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Well Amazon has boomed, but most of their profits from the UK disappear via Luxembourg, so no chance of a windfall tax hitting them.
> 
> Supermarkets haven't done very well, because of the extra costs in hiring extra staff to deal with online delivery orders, pickers & drivers, plus security staff too, as reflected by their share prices being well down.
> 
> And, I doubt any of the rest of your examples have done particularly well, just ticked over, and certainly not made a mint from it.


I know Asda are reporting a dip in profits, but considering the increased footfall, 100% capacity deliveries, absence of promotions etc   And share prices are affected by more than profits anyway. As for the additional cost of providing a low waged security guard on the door of those shops that didn’t already have one is negligible. My point is that before any shareholder dividends are paid out for this financial year u believe they should hit any business that has made profits above those made in the comparable period last year with a heavy windfall tax. It’s money they weren’t expecting. As for the tax-avoiding multinationals and their billionaire owners, maybe this is as good a time as any for a campaign to pressure governments to as far as possible act in unison  and Close down The loopholes And tax and tax their obscene profits in the countries they operate in. And deliveries weren’t load leaders by the way, so scaling up Staffing levels to Allow for increased demand means more profits not less


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 9, 2020)

Southlondon said:


> I can’t see how they can keep passing up the opportunity for a windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown.
> 
> This is why they should bring in a swift windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown. The supermarkets and convenience stores, takeaways that delivered throughout, courier firms, healthcare agencies, etc have all made a mint out of the world’s tragedy and I think it’s obscene for those lucky businesses to gorge themselves on profits they never expected, when the economy has taken the biggest hit ever and so many businesses are without income never mind profits. Follow that with a proper wealth tax and we would have the kind of money needed to really kickstart the economy and save jobs. But of course under our fucked up capitalism businesses expect to take out profits in the good times, and to put nothing back in the bad times.
> as for the high streets and wet-led pubs, they were struggling beforehand and until they get the plague properly under control there’s  no way the majority of Shops  or pubs can survive with greatly reduced footfall and the additional costs of New health and safety Requirements Unless they’re heavily subsidised by the tax payer.



On the face of it a windfall tax sounds like a good idea - or just tax Amazon as Bezos has had a turbo boost of billions with new customers to boot.

Bezos has probably grown in the space of months what would normally have taken 5yrs or so.

Its absolutely vile to see a cunt like him and his Amazon shamelessly gorging themselves whilst paying workers a pittance, turning a blind eye on Covid outbreaks at Amazon warehouses and sacking whistleblowers with racist undertones in the process


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 9, 2020)

Southlondon said:


> I can’t see how they can keep passing up the opportunity for a windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown.
> 
> This is why they should bring in a swift windfall tax on all the businesses that have boomed during lockdown. The supermarkets and convenience stores, takeaways that delivered throughout, courier firms, healthcare agencies, etc have all made a mint out of the world’s tragedy and I think it’s obscene for those lucky businesses to gorge themselves on profits they never expected, when the economy has taken the biggest hit ever and so many businesses are without income never mind profits. Follow that with a proper wealth tax and we would have the kind of money needed to really kickstart the economy and save jobs. But of course under our fucked up capitalism businesses expect to take out profits in the good times, and to put nothing back in the bad times.


But these businesses are putting something back, they're paying taxes. The more profit they make, the more tax they pay. Why go after a small courier company when Bezos is taking billions in taxes from the country?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2020)

Doodler said:


> Cheap High Street properties might be attractive to large retail names for a showrooms plus distribution hub setup. Argos have something like this where a main county/regional store supplies stock to satellite stores. You can imagine in a few years time largely automated warehouses supplying high street showrooms with samples and 'essentials' product ranges doubling as click and collect points. One retail park chain is already exploring this.



City centres are the worst possible place for distribution hubs though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> But these businesses are putting something back, they're paying taxes. The more profit they make, the more tax they pay. Why go after a small courier company when Bezos is taking billions in taxes from the country?



We should kidnap Bezos, nick his money and stick his shiny head on a pike and tour it around the country. Fucker’s worth nearly a trillion dollars, that will help kickstart the economy nicely.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Westfield have got to be taking a hammering


I find myself really hoping these temples to consumerism fail. Then I think of the jobs.


----------



## Southlondon (Jul 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> But these businesses are putting something back, they're paying taxes. The more profit they make, the more tax they pay. Why go after a small courier company when Bezos is taking billions in taxes from the country?


I didn’t mention small, I was talking the big 5 supermarkets and there are plenty of massive courier firms and nursing staff agencies etc, and Wete tsk I gotta profits they weren’t expecting. Rest money could be used to beef up relief for those that Couldn’t  even operate or still can’t. This is the biggest hit to the worlds economies and there’s no signs of the virus fizzling out anytime soon meaning suppressed consumer demand for a lot longer yet. Of course I’d like to see the billionaires and their companies properly taxed and to me that means wherever they operate. However, that would require some solid international cooperation between the big economies and that seems unlikely at the moment but who knows, anything is possible these days with enough grassroots cooperation and organising International consumer boycotts on a scale never before seen. Excess shareholder dividends should, in my mind, be taken and used to subsidise businesses that are likely to go bust and give us levels of unemployment never seen before. I think the high street shopping experience along with wet-led pubs have been on their way out for a long time and    Maybe their a lost cause but plenty of businesses that will still be viable if they ever get the plague under control to return consumer confidence


----------



## Doodler (Jul 9, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> City centres are the worst possible place for distribution hubs though.



It's the showrooms that will be in the high streets, not the distribution hubs.


----------



## stavros (Jul 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Why go after a small courier company when Bezos is taking billions in taxes from the country?



Why not rewrite the UK's labyrinthine tax legislation so that the moral rules and the legal rules are the same for everyone?



cupid_stunt said:


> Well Amazon has boomed, but most of their profits from the UK disappear via Luxembourg, so no chance of a windfall tax hitting them.



The UK, Luxembourg and all the other European countries could form some kind of cooperative, big enough to regulate such abuses and share. We'd have a lot more power than on our own... Oh...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 9, 2020)

stavros said:


> Why not rewrite the UK's labyrinthine tax legislation so that the moral rules and the legal rules are the same for everyone?
> 
> The UK, Luxembourg and all the other European countries could form some kind of cooperative, big enough to regulate such abuses and share. We'd have a lot more power than on our own... Oh...


Why not just tell Amazon "Fuck off. If you don't want to pay taxes here you can't sell here"?


----------



## stavros (Jul 10, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Why not just tell Amazon "Fuck off. If you don't want to pay taxes here you can't sell here"?



I think an overarching measure would be more effective. Amazon, yes, but also Google, Facebook, Boots, Top Shop, a large proportion of the national newspaper proprietors, Virgin and many in the House of Lords.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 10, 2020)

stavros said:


> I think an overarching measure would be more effective. Amazon, yes, but also Google, Facebook, Boots, Top Shop, a large proportion of the national newspaper proprietors, Virgin and many in the House of Lords.


Sounds good to me. But I'd extend it to everyone in the House of Lords, and by extend, I mean execute.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 10, 2020)

The Boots thing in my (fairly small) town is actually not that bad. 

There is a big branch on the High Street. Opposite that is a small opticians branch and another small (more pharmacy) branch next to the doctors. 

The two small branches are closing this month and are being amalgamated into the big one. Pleasingly no staff (here at least) are losing their jobs.


----------



## stavros (Jul 10, 2020)

I agree that Boots does bring a lot of patronage to the high street, and is probably a good thing in that regard, even if they're a little too big. I'm sure they could continue to deliver much the same service if they brought their tax affairs back to the UK.

Nothing will happen on tax avoidance for at least four years, given that the PM for many years wrote for and took a great deal of money from the Barclay brothers, who split their time between Monaco and a hollowed-out volcano in the Channel (and the High Court for one of them recently).


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 11, 2020)

Doodler said:


> Not really surprising. As well as online sales competition, Go Outdoors' price display system is unpopular (you need a store card to get the discount price, which is always in eyecatching big numerals) and their delivery and ordering system is unreliable.



Yeah, it’s a pile of shit and just winds people up, most other companies have a more sophisticated way of gathering customer information than pointlessly bureaucratic membership cards.  I could see a certain Mr Ashley taking this one on as it’s a good fit with some of his other types of outlets, expect it to reappear with garish ‘70% off’ price stickers everywhere.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 11, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> Yeah, it’s a pile of shit and just winds people up, most other companies have a more sophisticated way of gathering customer information than pointlessly bureaucratic membership cards.  I could see a certain Mr Ashley taking this one on as it’s a good fit with some of his other types of outlets, expect it to reappear with garish ‘70% off’ price stickers everywhere.



He seems to have a habit of snapping up companies which are in the doldrums so you could turn out to be right. Yes, big discount stickers and put-upon staff trying Mountain Warehouse style upselling.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 11, 2020)

Badgers said:


> The Boots thing in my (fairly small) town is actually not that bad.



My area has lost the local boots and a few other shops during lock down. Very busy part of town with a lot of elderly people. If you don't drive, the nearest chemist is a 15/20 minute walk from the Boots chemist and I don't really have any mobility problems. Mind you my local high street has started to get a bit of a name for itself lately and I would hazard a guess that that has had a knock on effect on the amount of business passing through at the moment.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 20, 2020)

Marks & Spencer to cut 950 jobs in latest Covid-19 blow to high street
					

Redundancies at stores and head office follow job losses at John Lewis and Boots this month




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 20, 2020)

Going through the city centre earlier there seemed to be a lot of to let signs up.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 31, 2020)

long read








						‘Calm before the storm’: UK small businesses fear for their future | Free to read
					

More than four months since lockdown began, many companies are running out of cash




					www.ft.com
				



makes zero mention or rent/rent holidays, which is one key factor

anyhow on the parade of shops at my work in central london of 10 shops/food spots 3 have already shut for good, two re-opend earlier this month and closed again "temporarily" due to lack of footfall, one had already shut down pre-Covid, and the rest just look fucked to me. It looks like a total collapse from what i can see.

my suburban home high street looks fine, as more people are working from home so i guess theyre getting business off that, but its hard to know for sure. the only thing ive seen shut down there is a barbers that didnt make it through lockdown.


----------



## andysays (Aug 4, 2020)

Pizza Express to close 67 outlets...

...unclear if Woking branch is one of them.


----------



## stavros (Aug 4, 2020)

andysays said:


> Pizza Express to close 67 outlets...
> 
> ...unclear if Woking branch is one of them.



He may not sweat, but I'm sure he's crying today.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 4, 2020)

Not high street but supposedly Hayward gallery on the Southbank in London is laying off around 80% of staff and in the future only 10% of the space will be for art, the rest sublet, pop up style. This from someone losing their job but third hand info. Can't see anything online to match that


An "interesting" bellwether if true


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 4, 2020)

Central London is fucked, it relies on the worker drones and if they are all WFH the businesses that feed off them are finished.

Since shops all reopened my local high street has been busy, a lot of people in my town commuted to London three days a week and WFH’d the rest, the last five months they have not gone in to London at all, so are spending their cash locally. Can’t see this changing, it’s thirty quid a day on the train, just to sit in an office. My parent company rents a ginormous office just off Trafalgar Square, it has been empty since March and even when this shit is just a bad memory people won’t want to slog in each day, can see them downsizing massively. I ain’t set foot in the place in over four years...


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 5, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Central London is fucked, it relies on the worker drones and if they are all WFH the businesses that feed off them are finished.
> 
> Since shops all reopened my local high street has been busy, a lot of people in my town commuted to London three days a week and WFH’d the rest, the last five months they have not gone in to London at all, so are spending their cash locally. Can’t see this changing, it’s thirty quid a day on the train, just to sit in an office. My parent company rents a ginormous office just off Trafalgar Square, it has been empty since March and even when this shit is just a bad memory people won’t want to slog in each day, can see them downsizing massively. I ain’t set foot in the place in over four years...



Yeah I think there'll be a lot of that. On the upside though maybe there might be room for some more interesting independent music/art/whatever type places to start to flourish again, the things that have been squeezed out by millions of branches of Pret and identikit bars that are only busy from 5-7 on a weekday. There'll always be something going on in Central London.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2020)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yeah I think there'll be a lot of that. On the upside though maybe there might be room for some more interesting independent music/art/whatever type places to start to flourish again, the things that have been squeezed out by millions of branches of Pret and identikit bars that are only busy from 5-7 on a weekday. There'll always be something going on in Central London.



Going into Central London is almost a pleasure at the moment... I've never had an issue with tourists, amazed anyone would want to holiday here, but what's exhausting is the millions of out of town commuters, moodily trudging in and out of London every day. They really spoil it, and their numbers keep growing

 If the allure of central locations dies that would be a great thing on multiple levels
Decentralising the UK has been a front line issue for years now


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 5, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Not high street but supposedly Hayward gallery on the Southbank in London is laying off around 80% of staff and in the future only 10% of the space will be for art, the rest sublet, pop up style. This from someone losing their job but third hand info. Can't see anything online to match that
> 
> 
> An "interesting" bellwether if true



It’s confirmed on one of the museum/arts groups subscribed to.

It’s not a good time to be working for a gallery or museum right now tbh.


----------



## MikeMcc (Aug 5, 2020)

Pretty much fucked hence the urge to change planning laws to allow change of purpose from commercial to domestic.  Potentially this has a lot of good behind it, but I suspect it will be fucked up as usual.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 5, 2020)

MikeMcc said:


> Pretty much fucked hence the urge to change planning laws to allow change of purpose from commercial to domestic.  Potentially this has a lot of good behind it, but I suspect it will be fucked up as usual.



tories did a simlilar thing not long ago i seem to remember George Osbourne was involved? - my local parade of shops at the time ended up like this

so shit



cant see how this is going to affect the Intu shopping mall up the road


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 6, 2020)

MikeMcc said:


> Pretty much fucked hence the urge to change planning laws to allow change of purpose from commercial to domestic.  Potentially this has a lot of good behind it, but I suspect it will be fucked up as usual.



It‘s fucked up because these conversions don‘t need to comply with minimum space requirements etc., and similar conversions of old office blocks have resulted in families living in 20m2 of space, it encourages the worst kind of slum landlordism. All about letting the free market take control, race for the bottom stuff.





__





						Common failings in permitted development office conversions
					

Issues of space, light and amenity in office to residential permitted development schemes




					www.architecture.com
				




These conversions also have no requirement to provide affordable housing as part of their development, unlike new builds.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 6, 2020)

Am I in the minority by thinking the death of the high street can't come soon enough and the sooner it's put out of its misery the better? When I say high street I mean city centre shopping areas. I think they're bloody awful. 

Soulless slabs of concrete with either chain shops, vape shops, tattooists, coffee shops or charity shops. They all look the same too. Look at the place below it could be anywhere couldn't it (you'll get the answer if you look of course)







These sorts of places make me feel grimy in my soul whenever I visit them. Turf them over with grass I say and put a roof on it so it can be used in all weathers. Have food markets with entertainment, cinema screenings, clothes stalls and independent local businesses. Just something different from these grotty old things that are a relic of last century.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Aug 6, 2020)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Am I in the minority by thinking the death of the high street can't come soon enough and the sooner it's put out of its misery the better? When I say high street I mean city centre shopping areas. I think they're bloody awful.


Couldn't agree more. Burn the lot of them to the ground, and replace them with fucking big amusement parks.


----------



## platinumsage (Aug 6, 2020)

I just did an Ocado shop following their switchover from Waitrose to M&S products. There goes the last reason for me to regularly go shopping in town.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 1, 2020)

Sad for the employees of course but good to see this overpriced bread hawker struggling given their owners past 









						Pret A Manger to cut a third of UK workforce - BBC News
					

The sandwich chain will slash 3,000 jobs as part of a rescue plan for the business.




					www.bbc.com


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 1, 2020)

Following up on previous posts, the south bank is pretty fucked.

313 staff from the Tate going. (Many notified Friday night ready for bank holiday, that was nice). 400 odd at the national theatre and south bank centre.









						Arts workers on South Bank in London rally against Covid job cuts
					

Redundancies at Tate, National Theatre and Southbank Centre prompt protest




					www.theguardian.com
				




Mix of roles, mostly front of house but also editors and book producers.

Trying to get an idea of the other big museums, I've heard a few rumours about the Kensington ones.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 1, 2020)

Places like the Tate sit on endless art that doesnt even get displayed - permanently in storage. They could sell a couple of paintings and that would pay for everyones wages. Thats aside from what other imperial sugar trade money they maybe can still access

300 workers on 30k a year is 9million - peanuts in the art world at that level


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 1, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Places like the Tate sit on endless art that doesnt even get displayed - permanently in storage. They could sell a couple of paintings and that would pay for everyones wages. Thats aside from what other imperial sugar trade money they maybe can still access
> 
> 300 workers on 30k a year is 9million - peanuts in the art world at that level



There's only so much room to display things, never been any budget to digitise everything either. That may change, maybe, now. A lot needs to be taken care of or stored perfectly as well.

Museums and galleries are very much icebergs when it comes to collections.

35 jobs going at Bletchely Park, a third of the staff.





__





						Bletchley Park Trust announces job losses - Museums Association
					

Organisation says it must restructure to survive financial impact of Covid-19




					www.museumsassociation.org


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 1, 2020)

I’ve been going into the office in the City for the last week. Just to have a break from the WFH fatigue. It’s been surreal. Just quiet everywhere. I quite like it tbh.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 1, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Museums and galleries are very much icebergs when it comes to collections.


exactly - more art than they know what to do with - so flog a picture or two, keep 300 people employed and save the hassle and cost of rehiring


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 1, 2020)

ska invita said:


> exactly - more art than they know what to do with - so flog a picture or two, keep 300 people employed and save the hassle and cost of rehiring



Aye.

Also when it comes to wages of the people being let go your probably looking at closer to 20k than 30k.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 1, 2020)

Just heard my neighbour looks like she may be being made redundant - she wfh, even before Covid  for a freight company, organising/selling cargo space on commercial freight planes.

It’s both saddening and terrifying to see what’s going on with people and their livelihoods right now.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 1, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Aye.
> 
> Also when it comes to wages of the people being let go your probably looking at closer to 20k than 30k.


absolutely - i was rounding up to make the point really


----------



## xenon (Sep 2, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Sad for the employees of course but good to see this overpriced bread hawker struggling given their owners past
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You monster. Get back to the office and buy your overpriced sarnies. DO it for Britain!


----------



## Badgers (Sep 2, 2020)

xenon said:


> You monster. Get back to the office and buy your overpriced sarnies. DO it for Britain!


Fuck Pret and those chains


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 2, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Places like the Tate sit on endless art that doesnt even get displayed - permanently in storage. They could sell a couple of paintings and that would pay for everyones wages. Thats aside from what other imperial sugar trade money they maybe can still access
> 
> 300 workers on 30k a year is 9million - peanuts in the art world at that level




British Airways have been flogging off their art collection, the money is peanuts to the cost of their operation, but they feel that having £30m of art hanging around in the Concorde Room and at Waterside is in poor taste as they prepare to sack anyone who earns a living wage.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 2, 2020)

I never got peoples obsession with Pret. The sandwiches are boring nowhere near worth the cost. If I wanted a bread based lunch I'd sooner go to Subway,


----------



## kebabking (Sep 2, 2020)

I don't think I've ever been into a Pret...

I'm told that the jobs/recruitment scene has changed - it's apparently no longer about the competitiveness of the salary and benefits, it's about the degree of flexibility and WFH and the support available to do so.


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 2, 2020)

I don’t mind a Pret Jambon Beurre, well i bought one once, and then recreated at home ever since


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 2, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> I never got peoples obsession with Pret. The sandwiches are boring nowhere near worth the cost. If I wanted a bread based lunch I'd sooner go to Subway,



It bills itself as healthy and good for you. All about the branding and image.

It’s still shit and expensive, as dull as it is I just take sandwiches when I’m in the office 80% of the time.

It’s the people who get daily takeout coffee that get to me. It’s at least once a day and you know most get it twice a day but you can just boil a kettle for a fraction of the price.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 2, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> It bills itself as healthy and good for you. All about the branding and image.
> 
> It’s still shit and expensive, as dull as it is I just take sandwiches when I’m in the office 80% of the time.
> 
> It’s the people who get daily takeout coffee that get to me. It’s at least once a day and you know most get it twice a day but you can just boil a kettle for a fraction of the price.



Some people don't have the time/energy to make their own sandwiches or coffee. Which is absurd but there you have it. Helps create more shit jobs at least.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 2, 2020)

One thing about Save Pret- around my work place there's loads of independent caffs and other lunch spots - so far its a few of them who have shut down, not Pret, of which there are two practically within half a mile.

I blame greedy landlords refusing rent holidays who now have empty shopfronts and the government for cutting off furlough and not legislating on rent. Eat out to help out isnt really designed to help daytime caffs make it - such an arbitrary way to give out money


----------



## Badgers (Sep 2, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> I never got peoples obsession with Pret. The sandwiches are boring nowhere near worth the cost. If I wanted a bread based lunch I'd sooner go to Subway,


Subway is fucking awful mind


----------



## brogdale (Sep 2, 2020)

I'm getting even more paranoid that, in public, my foil-wrapped, home-made sarnies are marking me out as a Marxist that hates his own country.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 2, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Subway is fucking awful mind



Sure it's not haute cuisine, but at least I don't feel I'm being ripped off for what it is.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 2, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sure it's not haute cuisine, but at least I don't feel I'm being ripped off for what it is.


you can bet the staff are 
depressing places


----------



## pesh (Sep 2, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sure it's not haute cuisine, but at least I don't feel I'm being ripped off for what it is.


I always find when I'm walking past a Subway feeling hungry the smell coming out of it is enough to put me off food for the rest of the day.


----------



## clicker (Sep 2, 2020)

pesh said:


> I always find when I'm walking past a Subway feeling hungry the smell coming out of it is enough to put me off food for the rest of the day.


OMG yes . There's something chemical going on, ķind of like a cross between a dry cleaners and damp dog.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 2, 2020)

brogdale said:


> I'm getting even more paranoid that, in public, my foil-wrapped, home-made sarnies are marking me out as a Marxist that hates his own country.



It’s mostly just annoying there’s so few places you can enjoy a home made sarnie on a wet winters day, I don’t want to eat in the office (and there’s usually no room in the ‘breakout area’ anyway) so you have to find a coffee shop that’s inattentive to park yourself in.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 2, 2020)

At the risk of outing myself as a willing stooge of the bosses, I actually quite like Subways, I can't remember the last time (if ever) I went to a Pret, I think the nearest one to me is probably Nottingham


----------



## brogdale (Sep 2, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> At the risk of outing myself as a willing stooge of the bosses, I actually quite like Subways, I can't remember the last time (if ever) I went to a Pret, I think the nearest one to me is probably Nottingham


Running dog, not stooge.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 2, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> It’s mostly just annoying there’s so few places you can enjoy a home made sarnie on a wet winters day, I don’t want to eat in the office (and there’s usually no room in the ‘breakout area’ anyway) so you have to find a coffee shop that’s inattentive to park yourself in.


Often used to be the South Bank venues for me; warm, dry, water on hand, toilets and sometimes some free stuff; I miss all that


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 2, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Running dog, not stooge.


I stand corrected


----------



## ska invita (Sep 2, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Often used to be the South Bank venues for me; warm, dry, water on hand, toilets and sometimes some free stuff; I miss all that


The People's Palace


----------



## pesh (Sep 2, 2020)

clicker said:


> OMG yes . There's something chemical going on, ķind of like a cross between a dry cleaners and damp dog.


Undiscovered corpse in a micro-brewery..


----------



## andysays (Sep 2, 2020)

brogdale said:


> I'm getting even more paranoid that, in public, my foil-wrapped, home-made sarnies are marking me out as a Marxist that hates his own country.


Are they foil-wrapped to protect them from the 5g waves?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 2, 2020)

andysays said:


> Are they foil-wrapped to protect them from the 5g waves?


Yep, no Chinese virus in me cheese & pickle!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 2, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> It bills itself as healthy and good for you. All about the branding and image.
> 
> It’s still shit and expensive, as dull as it is I just take sandwiches when I’m in the office 80% of the time.
> 
> It’s the people who get daily takeout coffee that get to me. It’s at least once a day and you know most get it twice a day but you can just boil a kettle for a fraction of the price.




My central London office has a nice kitchen, with boiling water tap, kettle & Nespresso machine, they supply all the coffee types you can think of, 10 different types of tea and about 5 different types of milk, yet still people slope off down to Starbucks at least once, more often twice a day to spend bare cash on a bucket of coffee to bring back to their desks. Madness.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 2, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> At the risk of outing myself as a willing stooge of the bosses, I actually quite like Subways, I can't remember the last time (if ever) I went to a Pret, I think the nearest one to me is probably Nottingham



I like Subway too, although there's only one order I ever bother getting from there. A footlong Italian BMT in herb and cheese bread with double meat,  extra (spicy) cheese and extra bacon and all the salad. Chosen more for its extra calorific content than anything else, since Subway sandwiches tend to taste pretty similar.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 2, 2020)

How crazy do you have to be to queue for a cold sandwich, and pay as much for it as you would for the ingredients to make a load of them.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 2, 2020)

I'd never eaten Pret until Olio...the food sharing App. 

My mates neighbour often hangs a bagful of stuff on his front door that needs eating by next day. Tastes great for free


----------



## Badgers (Sep 2, 2020)

Part 2 said:


> Tastes great for free


Good to hear you did not pay as there is a LOT of blood on the hands of that company.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 2, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Good to hear you did not pay as there is a LOT of blood on the hands of that company.


whats the story there badgers? im not aware


----------



## Badgers (Sep 2, 2020)

ska invita said:


> whats the story there badgers? im not aware


Pret are majority owned by Jab Holdings who are owned by billionaires Albert Reimann Sr. and Albert Reimann Jr.

A family who built the concentration camps for the Nazis and profited very very well from it.

Germany's second richest family with wealth over £30bn









						Reimann family firm reveals Nazi slave past in Germany
					

The Reimanns - big investors in popular consumer brands - discover dark links to the Nazi period.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				












						Pret A Manger sold for £1.5 billion to Germany's deal-hungry Reimann family
					

British sandwich and coffee shop chain Pret A Manger was sold for $2 billion (1.5 billion pounds) on Tuesday to an investment fund of Germany's billionaire Reimann family, as part of a global acquisition spree aimed at challenging Nestle <NESN.S> in the coffee sector.




					uk.reuters.com
				




They also own or have majority shares in Kunty Cream Doughnuts and some others


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 2, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Fuck Pret and those chains



Ive never been to one - is it like a posh Greggs?


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 3, 2020)

As the high street crumbles:









						Amazon to create 7,000 UK jobs
					

The online retail giant is recruiting at more than 50 sites in response to growing customer demand.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Top 3 rated comments from that article:


----------



## BristolEcho (Sep 3, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Ive never been to one - is it like a posh Greggs?



I've always thought of it as a place people go to when they don't want to go to Costa or Starbucks for ethical reasons as Pret present themselves as being a bit more ethical in general. Could be wrong though.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

BristolEcho said:


> I've always thought of it as a place people go to when they don't want to go to Costa or Starbucks for ethical reasons as Pret present themselves as being a bit more ethical in general. Could be wrong though.


See my post above about the ethics


----------



## BristolEcho (Sep 3, 2020)

Badgers said:


> See my post above about the ethics



Yep! Wasn't aware of the takeover either. 

I'm sure Pret always had posters in the window saying how well they treated staff etc.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 3, 2020)

BristolEcho said:


> I've always thought of it as a place people go to when they don't want to go to Costa or Starbucks for ethical reasons as Pret present themselves as being a bit more ethical in general. Could be wrong though.



see post #873...


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

Giving away a few old sarnies to food shelters is better than some places do but stinks of a PR thing. Maybe I am just cynical


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 3, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Giving away a few old sarnies to food shelters is better than some places do but stinks of a PR thing. Maybe I am just cynical


Companies like this are rarely magnanimous benefactors. I doubt this one has broken the mould.


----------



## BristolEcho (Sep 3, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Giving away a few old sarnies to food shelters is better than some places do but stinks of a PR thing. Maybe I am just cynical



I think you are realistic not cynical.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 3, 2020)

Badgers said:


> See my post above about the ethics
> [/
> But how far do we take the Nazi sympathisers bit? I have read the Henry Ford was to the right of Hitler, then there is Volkswagen, Porsche and Hugo Boss who all helped  with Hitlers war effort. L'Oreal is a massive organisation. I gather their founder was at least a sympathiser.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 3, 2020)

Changing tack slightly, there is much speculation about Waitrose linking up with Amazon....thatll be Waitrose struck off my list


----------



## TopCat (Sep 3, 2020)

My local high street seems to be doing ok. Lots of outdoor eating and drinking. People are hanging out locally.


----------



## rubbershoes (Sep 3, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Changing tack slightly, there is much speculation about Waitrose linking up with Amazon....thatll be Waitrose struck off my list



Isn't it ocado rather than amazon?


----------



## ska invita (Sep 3, 2020)

rubbershoes said:


> Isn't it ocado rather than amazon?


Ocado split with Waitrose to deal with M&S iirc


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 3, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Changing tack slightly, there is much speculation about Waitrose linking up with Amazon....thatll be Waitrose struck off my list



Yeah, something to do with Deliveroo which Amazon have a stake in so would use to deliver groceries.

I honestly think that in some point in the near future it will be very hard to escape buying from Amazon’s online ecosystem.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 3, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Yeah, something to do with Deliveroo which Amazon have a stake in so would use to deliver groceries.
> 
> I honestly think that in some point in the near future it will be very hard to escape buying from Amazon’s online ecosystem.


That's the great thing about capitalism, the choice it creates


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2020)

hash tag said:


> > But how far do we take the Nazi sympathisers bit? I have read the Henry Ford was to the right of Hitler, then there is Volkswagen, Porsche and Hugo Boss who all helped with Hitlers war effort. L'Oreal is a massive organisation. I gather their founder was at least a sympathiser.


I think building concentration camps is a bit more involved than being a 'sympathiser'


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 3, 2020)

ska invita said:


> That's the great thing about capitalism, the choice it creates



_Every civilisation, was built on the back of a disposable workforce_


----------



## seeformiles (Sep 3, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Some people don't have the time/energy to make their own sandwiches or coffee. Which is absurd but there you have it. Helps create more shit jobs at least.



The time & energy excuse is totally absurd - the sort of excuse a lazy twat who’s never made a sandwich in their life would use. I worked with one such chap who was forever overdrawn and complaining about money worries on one hand while spending over £20 a day on crap from the canteen on the other. He couldn’t see the connection between the two at all. Prime Subway/Pret/Starbucks customer. 🙂


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 3, 2020)

And now - Costa Coffee looking to shed jobs.









						Costa Coffee warns up to 1,650 jobs are at risk
					

The coffee chain says there are still "high levels of uncertainty" as to when trade will recover.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 3, 2020)

TopCat said:


> My local high street seems to be doing ok. Lots of outdoor eating and drinking. People are hanging out locally.



Covid has the potential to do the high street a world of good once it’s gone. All those office workers now working from home popping down to get local products rather than fucking about on the commute. The coffee shops nearby might get more clientele than mums with strollers.

There’s a local market near mine every Monday, happening for centuries. Fuck knows why it’s not changed day since then but wfh means I can potentially get to it rather than wasting a day off to visit somewhere barely worth a day off and get some shopping done outside of relying on Tesco or Sainsbury’s.

It’s a bold new future and Boris wants us all to get back on that tube and have our heads in a strangers armpits at 7am and the guzzle a pret as it’s the only coffee shop at the station.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 3, 2020)

I think Amazon have a small stake in Deliveroo. The talk was Amazon themselves delivering food for Waitrose, complete with a few hour delivery time.

Amazon create 7000 new "jobs". I wonder how many will be real jobs and how many will be Zero hours


----------



## Humberto (Sep 3, 2020)

Yet they demand loyalty, love and enthusiasm for nothing in return. Just wrong on several levels.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2020)

"create" jobs should probably instead be "replace" jobs since high-street jobs will likely be lost because amazon avoids paying tax which makes them cheaper at the expense of retailers who _do _pay tax.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Sep 4, 2020)

Elpenor said:


> I don’t mind a Pret Jambon Beurre, well i bought one once, and then recreated at home ever since


I like that one. If forced to go in Pret.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 4, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> How crazy do you have to be to queue for a cold sandwich, and pay as much for it as you would for the ingredients to make a load of them.



Does it really blow your mind that some people are willing to pay for the labour and other costs brought about by the convenience of being able to just grab something and go? There's a nice little Italian place almost literally just over the road from my place, who make sandwiches nicer than any I could be bothered to make. I can be in and out of that place in minutes, I've got better things to do with my time and energy than make sandwiches. For sure, buying them from Gaudio's costs more money than making them myself, but I can afford it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> It’s the people who get daily takeout coffee that get to me. It’s at least once a day and you know most get it twice a day but you can just boil a kettle for a fraction of the price.


Yeh but hot water doesn't give you that caffeine buzz


----------



## andysays (Sep 4, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Does it really blow your mind that some people are willing to pay for the labour and other costs brought about by the convenience of being able to just grab something and go? There's a nice little Italian place almost literally just over the road from my place, who make sandwiches nicer than any I could be bothered to make. I can be in and out of that place in minutes, I've got better things to do with my time and energy than make sandwiches. For sure, buying them from Gaudio's costs more money than making them myself, but I can afford it.


We're not really talking about your favoured independent sandwich place (which sounds great) on this thread though, we're talking about Pret.

I very rarely buy stuff there, but it certainly doesn't come into the category of "better than you could make at home" at least in my experience. 

People use them, and places in a similar category, because they're convenient and because they're ubiquitous, not because they provide a quality culinary experience.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 4, 2020)

My local high street is fucked, I visited to get my hair cut and didn't realise he had slashed his prices in a bid to get people back visiting. His meaning the high street is fucked .. no one is coming out .. and he can't persuade all those who bought clippers during the shut down to come out and use his services ..


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 4, 2020)

weltweit said:


> My local high street is fucked, I visited to get my hair cut and didn't realise he had slashed his prices in a bid to get people back visiting. His meaning the high street is fucked .. no one is coming out .. and he can't persuade all those who bought clippers during the shut down to come out and use his services ..



My barber said he was mad busy as soon as he was allowed to re-open then pretty much dead straight after.

Personally I couldn’t wait to get my Corona cut, cut out by a pro.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 4, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Does it really blow your mind that some people are willing to pay for the labour and other costs brought about by the convenience of being able to just grab something and go? There's a nice little Italian place almost literally just over the road from my place, who make sandwiches nicer than any I could be bothered to make. I can be in and out of that place in minutes, I've got better things to do with my time and energy than make sandwiches. For sure, buying them from Gaudio's costs more money than making them myself, but I can afford it.


It doesn't blow my mind, but I fail to comprehend how it can possibly be more convenient to queue in a sandwich shop than it would be to make your own sandwich before leaving home.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 4, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> ..
> Personally I couldn’t wait to get my Corona cut, cut out by a pro.


Yes, me too. and it only took him a couple of minutes to do what took me about three quarters of an hour!  He had cut his prices to £5.00 for a clipper cut. Can't argue with that.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 4, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh but hot water doesn't give you that caffeine buzz



Wakes you right up though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Wakes you right up though.


Specially if you're expecting coffee


----------



## NoXion (Sep 4, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> It doesn't blow my mind, but I fail to comprehend how it can possibly be more convenient to queue in a sandwich shop than it would be to make your own sandwich before leaving home.



Well let's see:

A few minutes queuing.

vs 

Thinking and planning what sandwiches to make, buying the ingredients, making the sandwiches, wondering what to do with the stuff left over that doesn't quite make an entire sandwich (or more likely in my case, forgetting about that stuff and having to chuck it out later 'cause it's gone off), and still ending up with a sandwich that isn't as nice as one I could just buy.

Maybe your judgment of the value of time vs money is different to mine, but for me it's an easy choice.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 4, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> Wakes you right up though.


And the degree to which it wakes you up is directly proportional to the temperature of the water, and where it's poured.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 4, 2020)

andysays said:


> We're not really talking about your favoured independent sandwich place (which sounds great) on this thread though, we're talking about Pret.
> 
> I very rarely buy stuff there, but it certainly doesn't come into the category of "better than you could make at home" at least in my experience.
> 
> People use them, and places in a similar category, because they're convenient and because they're ubiquitous, not because they provide a quality culinary experience.



I don't remember if I ever ate anything from Pret, but the thing with chains is while the quality may not be the greatest, it is still consistent. A known quantity which means that you'll know what you're getting. Chains and franchises work very hard to ensure this kind of consistency.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 4, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Well let's see:
> 
> A few minutes queuing.
> 
> ...


You have to travel to the shop and queue, to have a sandwich made by somebody who possibly didn't wash their hands after using the toilet. Whereas I pull something from the fridge, and make a world-class sandwich in less than a minute.
I'm sorry your sandwich making skills aren't up to scratch, but I've been making nice sandwiches since I was about 6 years old. Maybe a little more practice would help change your view.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 4, 2020)

I know I could make acceptable sandwiches but still I buy them. On the grand scale of things I don't spend so much on bought sarnies, so it wouldn't be so much of a saving to make them myself. mainly I CBA. That said, more invention for my lunch could be worth doing, sometimes the sarnies aren't very great!


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 4, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> You have to travel to the shop and queue, to have a sandwich made by somebody who possibly didn't wash their hands after using the toilet. Whereas I pull something from the fridge, and make a world-class sandwich in less than a minute.
> I'm sorry your sandwich making skills aren't up to scratch, but I've been making nice sandwiches since I was about 6 years old. Maybe a little more practice would help change your view.


Working in a busy town centre means you don't exactly "travel" to the sandwich shop - it's a two minute walk away, and an excuse to stretch your legs and get out of the office for some fresh (ok, polluted) air. 

For me though it's largely down to being to 'king lazy to get out of bed quickly enough in the morning to make sandwiches, along with the planning a buying of ingredients.

TBH, though, I suspect I just earn enough to be able to not be arsed with making my own lunch.  I agree that makes me lucky.

(I saw a meme the other day along the lines of "2019 - if you made your own sandwiches you could afford to save for a deposit to buy a house.  2020 - go out and buy sandwiches to save the economy")


----------



## NoXion (Sep 4, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> You have to travel to the shop and queue, to have a sandwich made by somebody who possibly didn't wash their hands after using the toilet. Whereas I pull something from the fridge, and make a world-class sandwich in less than a minute.
> I'm sorry your sandwich making skills aren't up to scratch, but I've been making nice sandwiches since I was about 6 years old. Maybe a little more practice would help change your view.



It really doesn't take that long. If there was no convenience factor, then why would anyone bother buying sandwiches instead of making their own? Like I said, I got better things to do with my time than make sandwiches. If you can make super duper sandwiches in no time since you were a nipper, good for you. I'm not sorry, why should I be? I'm spending my time and my money how I want.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 4, 2020)

NoXion said:


> It really doesn't take that long. If there was no convenience factor, then why would anyone bother buying sandwiches instead of making their own?


Consumerism 101.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 4, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Consumerism 101.



You're still consuming if you make your own sandwiches, just in a different way.


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 4, 2020)

NoXion said:


> You're still consuming if you make your own sandwiches, just in a different way.


yes, sure, but the government at the moment is telling us to go back to our offices to keep the sandwich shops and coffee shops in business.

It does underline the dual role of the working (and middle) classes, as both workers and consumers. 

Though at other times the ruling class tell us we should all be saving more so we are not a burden on the State/taxpayers.

It's just so confusing.  I haven't got a clue what to do anymore.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 4, 2020)

NoXion said:


> You're still consuming if you make your own sandwiches, just in a different way.


Indeed, as I'm still consuming if I build my own computer from discrete components, it's simply a different degree of consumerism. I neither have the time, nor the wherewithal to bake my own processors, but I do have the time and the wherewithal to make a butty, but I guess that even if I grew the pig, I'd still be guilty of consumerism, if I bought feed for it.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 4, 2020)

I make my own sandwiches - mainly because I don’t want to pay through the nose for ready made Greggs ones - cost an absolute fortune compared to self made.

Takes me less than 5mins tops.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 4, 2020)

mx wcfc said:


> yes, sure, but the government at the moment is telling us to go back to our offices to keep the sandwich shops and coffee shops in business.
> 
> It does underline the dual role of the working (and middle) classes, as both workers and consumers.
> 
> ...



Stop listening to the whatever government tells you to do, and just do whatever you personally feel is right. 

If you want to stay home and stay safe, then do that if your employer will let you. Mine forces me to come in on a part-time basis, and the only concession I've managed to wring out of them so far is more flexibility in start/finish times so I can miss the school rush on the buses. I would rather work from home full time. Hopefully your employer is more reasonable.

If you want to try and support a local business, then do that if that's what you want.

Either way, make it _your_ decision.


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 4, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Stop listening to the whatever government tells you to do, and just do whatever you personally feel is right.
> 
> If you want to stay home and stay safe, then do that if your employer will let you. Mine forces me to come in on a part-time basis, and the only concession I've managed to wring out of them so far is more flexibility in start/finish times so I can miss the school rush on the buses. I would rather work from home full time. Hopefully your employer is more reasonable.
> 
> ...


yes, mate, I know that, and that's exactly what I'm doing.  Sorry you have to go in go in part time.


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 5, 2020)

Last job I’d just buy ingredients from the supermarket and make my own sandwiches at my desk. Bottom drawer was full of food and changes of clothing because I cycled in and showered on arrival, usually bringing the week’s clothing in on a Monday. Looked like I was living out of the place, glad I left before they brought in ‘agile working’ where everyone hotdesked and had a small locker, I’d have never coped. Out of town business park with a greggs (where I’d buy the occasional cake) and a sandwich van, so fuck all choice really.


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 5, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> My central London office has a nice kitchen, with boiling water tap, kettle & Nespresso machine, they supply all the coffee types you can think of, 10 different types of tea and about 5 different types of milk, yet still people slope off down to Starbucks at least once, more often twice a day to spend bare cash on a bucket of coffee to bring back to their desks. Madness.



We’re probably relatively sane in this county, stayed with my uncle in the states quite a few years back and a couple of times a day he’d drive from home to a local petrol station about a mile or two away to buy a coffee. Normal behaviour. Apparently he really liked their coffee.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 6, 2020)

* chortle*  I currently pay £4 a day for the privilege of walking 5 minutes from work and sitting in a particularly shite local cafe eating a tuna salad roll and a bag of crisps.  It's a godsend to be honest - and far preferable to spending my lunchtime sat at work chewing my home made sandwich.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 8, 2020)

Zombie shops advertising new spring 2020 lines


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 8, 2020)

I make my own sarnies, that saves about £1000 pa. Thats like earning an extra grand a year. Easy.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 8, 2020)

I like to eat 'em in works time too. Paid lunch.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2020)

Chilli.s said:


> I make my own sarnies, that saves about £1000 pa. Thats like earning an extra grand a year. Easy.




Save/earn even more money by chorring some other sap's sarnies from the work fridge 😎


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 8, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Save/earn even more money by chorring some other sap's sarnies from the work fridge 😎


A lad used to do that at a place I worked. He used to steal slices of another lad's ham from the fridge, until he got food poisoning from ham that had been left out to fester for a week before being put in the fridge.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 8, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Well let's see:
> 
> A few minutes queuing.
> 
> ...



Sandwiches are cheese surely?

With:

Onion
Tomato
Pickle
Ham
Jam
Marmalade
Golden syrup
Beetroot
Lettuce and tomato

Before you knock it, try a good sharp cheddar with blackcurrant jam.


----------



## agricola (Sep 8, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Sandwiches are cheese surely?
> 
> With:
> 
> ...



Cheese and golden syrup is a profoundly 2020 sandwich.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 8, 2020)

agricola said:


> Cheese and golden syrup is a profoundly 2020 sandwich.



I first ate it 47 years ago.  

I left mango chutney off the list.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 10, 2020)

agricola said:


> Cheese and golden syrup is a profoundly 2020 sandwich.


🤢🤮


----------



## ska invita (Oct 23, 2020)

Gap considers closing all its UK stores
					

Thousands of jobs could be at risk as the US clothing chain mulls closing its company-owned shops.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				



*US retailer Gap could close all of its own UK stores, putting thousands of jobs at risk, as it mulls shifting its operations to franchise-only in Europe.*
Shops in the UK, France, Ireland and Italy could shut next summer, along with its UK-based European distribution centre, the retailer said.
Gap would not disclose the number of UK stores it has, nor the size of its workforce.
-
The retailer reported a £740m loss in the three months to May.
Instead of operating its own stores, Gap said it was looking at whether to move to a franchise model. The retailer had 129 Gap-branded stores in Europe at the end of July, and about 400 franchise stores.




I wonder how the high streets in Europe are doing? I expect they are less chain-heavy that the UK?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 23, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Gap considers closing all its UK stores
> 
> 
> Thousands of jobs could be at risk as the US clothing chain mulls closing its company-owned shops.
> ...



As some of you know I work as a freelance designer in the fashion trade. I went freelance about 20 years ago  - I stopped working for the high street around 2005 - I might do the odd project gig for a long term client who supplys Next but thats it.   The chain stores pay so badly I can't pay my bills on their rates. They're exploitative. And who can wait for 90 days net terms? I can't. 

Anyway - wherever the virus has taken hold, the situation is pretty bad, but the big chains, many of them were already in debt up to their eyeballs so of course they're dropping like flies. It's bad in the states, big names have gone. 

A mate of mine (another designer) went to a retail trade seminar about future trends  where the speaker said - there's going to be a market correction, the market is going to really shrink down, you're going to have to accept it so decide what you're going to do. He said there was a lot of disbelief and nervous laughter. But a lot of us knew it was coming. 

We're in late capitalism, the prices have deflated since the 80's. Go look on Pinterest at the old Next directories and the clothes -  top quality made in Italy, look almost as nice as Stone Island. beautiful details, & finishing, quality buttons, jaquard knitted back neck labels and then look at the price. We're being sold absolute crap now. Profit margins are tiny and every few years something else has to be shaved off,  in order to keep going. 

 Around 15-20 years ago, the chain stores began to stopped working with trading companies (middle men) on development and employed these teams themselves instead - but to save more cash, many jobs were recruited offshore near the factories instead such as merchandisers and shipping admin. But designers are best when they live in the marketplace that they design for,  so they employed and based design teams based in their head offices. But this year, I'm hearing of entire design and development teams being made redundant.  I would expect the product to suffer, they perhaps will just buy in and change things a bit. I've freelanced for Chinese factories before, perhaps this is how they'll be employed. Everything is changing fast now. I never thought I'd see the day that I'd stop working in China or make things in London again (I'd stopped that in the 1990's) but I'm doing more and more here, next steps is to try commercialise it more to bring the price down, that's done in design and machinery that you use. 

And as well as getting rid of the design teams, what else is too expensive? Oh yeah, our shops, they need to be got rid of too. I wonder what goes next? Maybe they'll take the pockets  off everything, like Primark does. 

Gap going doesn't surprise me - who is it for anyway? Middle market chainstores, whats the point, people are skint and will go to Primark.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 23, 2020)

__





						10 British department stores that have come & gone over the years
					

A list of 10 department stores that have come and gone over the years, including Binns, Woolwrths, Pauldens, Peter Robinson, Lewis's, BHS.




					www.retailgazette.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Oct 29, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Pret are majority owned by Jab Holdings who are owned by billionaires Albert Reimann Sr. and Albert Reimann Jr.
> 
> A family who built the concentration camps for the Nazis and profited very very well from it.
> 
> ...


----------



## ska invita (Oct 29, 2020)

Never mind just the high street:
"*Two-thirds* of UK businesses were at risk of insolvency* last* month, according to official figures"








						UK facing 'flood' of bankruptcies over coming months, says ONS
					

Two-thirds of UK businesses were at risk of insolvency last month, according to official figures




					www.theguardian.com
				




Two thirds!!! By the time spring comes its going to be utter carnage. Absolutely socialism or barbarism time


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 19, 2020)

Another 4,700 jobs at risk.   









						Peacocks and Jaeger collapse puts 4,700 jobs at risk
					

The two fashion chains fall into administration, putting almost 500 shops at risk.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## ska invita (Nov 19, 2020)

Many shops make their core profits in December to carry them through the year - come second week of January Im expecting an avalanche of further closures...
I know the government want to allow shopping, but there's no way its going to be on the usual scale


----------



## 8115 (Nov 19, 2020)

Toby Carvery struggling.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 21, 2020)

I've never been to a Toby Carvery and I can't tell if those sad faces are ironic.


----------



## Cloo (Nov 21, 2020)

Yup, fuck knows what's going to happen now.

If they want to kickstart it again once things start moving they will have to do something about business rates. It's not good having them crazily high if there's no one there to fucking pay them, they will have to work something out that allows retail to function.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 21, 2020)

8115 said:


> I've never been to a Toby Carvery and I can't tell if those sad faces are ironic.


of course not
??

Tobys are usually rammed, especially on a weekend, and have lots of tables....high turnover low margins perhaps? big rents? Certainly in big buildings


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 22, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Another 4,700 jobs at risk.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both brands have been fucked and propped up by borrowing for at least 7 years, peobably longer.  😔😞


----------



## yield (Nov 22, 2020)

pinkmonkey said:


> Both brands have been fucked and propped up by borrowing for at least 7 years, peobably longer.  😔😞


There's been a massive hollowing out of the high street. Like what happened with Debenhams. 

The finance sector gutting the bricks and mortar. 

British Land scoops Debenhams stores
Standard. February 15, 2005


> THE property company British Land revealed today that it has bought 23 department store buildings from retailer Debenhams for £495m.
> 
> British Land said the deal would take the total value of its retail property portfolio above £6.4bn.
> 
> ...


----------



## Badgers (Nov 22, 2020)

8115 said:


> I've never been to a Toby Carvery and I can't tell if those sad faces are ironic.


Toby Carvery is harmless. They are not 'classy' establishments but generally clean, not terribly expensive and a lot of families use them. 

I go occasionally, usually for the breakfast buffet which is average fayre but good value.


----------



## stavros (Nov 22, 2020)

8115 said:


> Toby Carvery struggling.



There are bound to be cuts there.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 22, 2020)

ska invita said:


> of course not
> ??
> 
> Tobys are usually rammed, especially on a weekend, and have lots of tables....high turnover low margins perhaps? big rents? Certainly in big buildings



Tastes like plastic to me but it's decent enough place to take kids and feed them until they burst


----------



## 8115 (Nov 25, 2020)

JD Sports might buy Debenhams, could be the rescue that Debenhams has been needing for years now. To be honest, just as long as it's not Mike Ashley it's good enough for me.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 27, 2020)

Sir Philip Green's Topshop empire Arcadia Group faces collapse within days
					

Sir Philip Green's Arcadia could appoint administrators early next week, putting 13,000 jobs at risk, Sky News learns.




					news.sky.com
				




Couldn't happen to a nastier, thieving scumcunt.

Awful that so many jobs will be lost. Every penny that vile Green and his miserable family have needs to be sequestered and split among the staff.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Sir Philip Green's Topshop empire Arcadia Group faces collapse within days
> 
> 
> Sir Philip Green's Arcadia could appoint administrators early next week, putting 13,000 jobs at risk, Sky News learns.
> ...



A long time coming - the book Damaged Goods is an excellent read. It's a shame because Top Shop was great back in it's heyday but after his behaviour many of us have boycotted it for years.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Sir Philip Green's Topshop empire Arcadia Group faces collapse within days
> 
> 
> Sir Philip Green's Arcadia could appoint administrators early next week, putting 13,000 jobs at risk, Sky News learns.
> ...




I am sure he has made sure his Yacht and chattels are well ringfenced from the receivers.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Sir Philip Green's Topshop empire Arcadia Group faces collapse within days
> 
> 
> Sir Philip Green's Arcadia could appoint administrators early next week, putting 13,000 jobs at risk, Sky News learns.
> ...



The goodies are in his wife's name IIRC.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 27, 2020)

The virus is really showing up the short sightedness of running your company with massive debt.  Extracting capital from it and then leveraging debt against it.  Normal practice and ok enough when times are good but it all collapses very quickly when there is any headwind.

Its just become such a common way of doing business and its just toxic for business and job security.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 27, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> The goodies are in his wife's name IIRC.




Yep, she's supposedly the boss and he's a lowly worker. Highlights how much our tax laws need reforming, they way the US does it means that no yanks live in Monaco...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 27, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> The virus is really showing up the short sightedness of running your company with massive debt.  Extracting capital from it and then leveraging debt against it.  Normal practice and ok enough when times are good but it all collapses very quickly when there is any headwind.
> 
> Its just become such a common way of doing business and its just toxic for business and job security.


That Warren Buffet (was it?) quote - 'When the tide goes out you can see who was swimming naked.'


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 27, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yep, she's supposedly the boss and he's a lowly worker. Highlights how much our tax laws need reforming, they way the US does it means that no yanks live in Monaco...


No, they take Monaco or other citizenship.


----------



## stavros (Nov 27, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> No, they take Monaco or other citizenship.



Does she not have non-dom status? That's the perplexing system where you can keep full nationality, and the silly titles where applicable, whilst not being taxed on worldwide income. The result is that they reroute their UK income through businesses nominally registered in Monaco, Gibraltar or some remnant of the British Empire which still operates under the crown.

I say we use the knighthood as the first bargaining chip. If that doesn't work, award them a brand new, specially created honour: "Arise Parasitic Philip and Tina Green".


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 30, 2020)

Just confirmed that the Arcadia Group has finally collapsed into administration.



> Sir Philip Green’s Arcadia Group has collapsed into administration, putting 13,000 jobs at risk as the retail tycoon’s high street career ends in failure.
> 
> The owner of household names including Topshop, Topman, Miss Selfridge, Dorothy Perkins, Evans and Burton appointed administrators from Deloitte on Monday.
> 
> ...





> More than ten buyers are already thought to be lining up for Topshop, including online specialist Boohoo, Mike Ashley’s Frasers Group, formerly known as Sports Direct, and a number of private equity players. Next and Marks & Spencer are also understood to be taking a look at Arcadia’s brands as they try to broaden their appeal online.



Gutted for the staff, but fuck Philip Green.



> *The administration also raises concerns for members of Arcadia’s pension fund, which has an estimated deficit of £350m.
> 
> The group’s pension fund will be assessed for entry into the Pension Protection Fund (PPF), the industry-backed pensions lifeboat. *



And, fuck him again.  









						Philip Green's Arcadia Group collapses into administration
					

More than 13,000 jobs at risk in biggest UK corporate failure of the Covid pandemic




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## stavros (Nov 30, 2020)

Has anyone sought Cameron and Osborne's thoughts on their former efficiency tsar?


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 30, 2020)

The Pension Fund will get first dibs on any proceeds from the sale but it is not likely to be enough to make up all the shortfall, There have been calls for Green to put in the £350m himself which is about a third of his fortune. 
Don't know how much actual power the Pension Regulator has to make him do that, very little I suspect.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 30, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> The Pension Fund will get first dibs on any proceeds from the sale but it is not likely to be enough to make up all the shortfall, There have been calls for Green to put in the £350m himself which is about a third of his fortune.
> Don't know how much actual power the Pension Regulator has to make him do that, very little I suspect.



It keeps stunning me that raiding pension pots is not a crime, how long since Maxwell now? And the language they use, pension deficit, as if it is just one of those things rather than having some thieving cunt using his staff’s savings as his personal piggy bank.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 30, 2020)

Its fucking gross.


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 30, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It keeps stunning me that raiding pension pots is not a crime, how long since Maxwell now? And the language they use, pension deficit, as if it is just one of those things rather than having some thieving cunt using his staff’s savings as his personal piggy bank.


He hasn't been raiding it that is indeed a crime, what he has been doing is taking a pension payment holiday by not putting in employer contributions. This is smoke and mirrors accounting, the pension is valued at  X basically using guesswork as to how much it will contain at some future date if its investments grow at the guessed rate. So the company can say "Great the Pension will have enough money in it anyway so we will scale back what we have to put in (on top of employee contributions) and we're still good"
When it doesn't grow at the projected rate then there is a shortfall, Arcadia is by no means unique in this regard, that's the reason they weren't exactly swamped with offers for the Tata Steel business, its pension fund is shy half a billion and whoever bought it would be liable for it. 
Arcadia is still liable for its pension shortfall that's why it will get paid first but clearly if the sale only raises £200m say then the fund is still £150m short, the Govt is the ultimate guarantor of pensions so it will step in but it has special rules that limit its liability.
Much of the money that wasn't then put in the Pension scheme because it wasn't "needed" was then paid out as dividends to guess who which is why a lot of people now think he should pony up but my guess is he won't


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 30, 2020)

Yeah, he’s taken the cash that should’ve gone to his staff, the thieving cunt.


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 30, 2020)

I’d say fuck his shitty clothes shops, if it wasn’t for the fact that he’s been put out of business by even shitter fast fashion wasteful cunts with probably dodgier ‘tax efficiencies’ and staff treatment. No winners here.


----------



## BristolEcho (Nov 30, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> I’d say fuck his shitty clothes shops, if it wasn’t for the fact that he’s been put out of business by even shitter fast fashion wasteful cunts with probably dodgier ‘tax efficiencies’ and staff treatment. No winners here.



Oh he will very much be an ultimate winner out of this as will the very many other people involved along the way.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 1, 2020)

‘


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 1, 2020)

BristolEcho said:


> Oh he will very much be an ultimate winner out of this as will the very many other people involved along the way.


As explained in today's Guardian profile of 'Sir' Philip Green  ....




			
				Guardian headline said:
			
		

> * Philip Green profile : from 'zero to hero' and back again *
> *‘King of the high street’ will forever be associated with the downfall of BHS – and now very possibly Arcadia*






			
				Rupert Neate said:
			
		

> A high-profile parliamentary investigation into BHS’s demise *concluded that the owners had systematically plundered the company, and described the hole in the pension fund as “the unacceptable face of capitalism”*.
> It led to calls for Green to be stripped of his knighthood, awarded by Tony Blair for services to the retail industry in 2006.
> *Green had boasted that he had Blair on speed dial*.
> Blair described Green as “the person who thought up the dream and dreamt the dream into reality”.


----------



## MrSki (Dec 1, 2020)

Surprise surprise they went into administration a day before this.


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 1, 2020)

MrSki said:


> Surprise surprise they went into administration a day before this.


No problems with this it is actually very reasonable, HMRC should get paid off off in full after the Pension fund and employee redundancy payments but before banks, suppliers and of course shareholders.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Dec 1, 2020)

It's confirmed that Debenhams is closing all stores, after JD Sports pulled out of a potential rescue deal.   









						Debenhams set to close putting 12,000 jobs at risk
					

The move comes after the failure of last-ditch efforts to rescue the ailing department store chain.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Dec 1, 2020)

25k jobs in those two cases this week


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 1, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's confirmed that Debenhams is closing all stores, after JD Sports pulled out of a potential rescue deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mrs Q is a staunch patron of Debenhams both online and in the shop, she's not happy about it


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 1, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's confirmed that Debenhams is closing all stores, after JD Sports pulled out of a potential rescue deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I expect someone will buy the website - it makes a fortune - it's the stores and the rent that nobody wants.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 1, 2020)

pinkmonkey said:


> I expect someone will buy the website - it makes a fortune - it's the stores and the rent that nobody wants.


And the staff


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 1, 2020)

Badgers said:


> And the staff


Unfortunately yes. Many of these retailer websites are actually operated like ebay and Amazon, Debenhams website is   - suppliers upload and manage their own stock on there, Debenhams checks in and removes anything they think is not in the supply contract they agreed with the supplier (usually if they think its a conflict with their own products - which make more profit obvs.),  its a DIY operation, with low overheads and customers go there because Debenhams is a recognised and loved brand. That thing I was saying earlier in this thread about reduced profits meaning that retailers had to strip even more layers away to stay in the same position - these retailer websites are a great example of that.


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## Sprocket. (Dec 1, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> Mrs Q is a staunch patron of Debenhams both online and in the shop, she's not happy about it



Mrs S. was saying earlier that most of her work suits and clothes come from Debenhams and Dorothy Perkins. But as she as been working from home since March, she hasn’t bought much at all. Multiply that by however many thousands of customers currently doing the same. Plus the loss in sales of holiday wear. It’s devastating to already struggling retail outlets on the high street.


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## pinkmonkey (Dec 1, 2020)

Sprocket. said:


> Mrs S. was saying earlier that most of her work suits and clothes come from Debenhams and Dorothy Perkins. But as she as been working home since March she hasn’t bought much at all. Multiply that by however many thousands of customers currently doing the same. Plus the loss in sales of holiday wear. It’s devastating to already struggling retail outlets on the high street.


Its even worse for the suppliers - Jobs Of Millions Of Bangladeshi Garment Workers At Stake


----------



## Sprocket. (Dec 1, 2020)

pinkmonkey said:


> Its even worse for the suppliers - Jobs Of Millions Of Bangladeshi Garment Workers At Stake


Absolutely, because there is not only British retail in decline. The global impact of Covid and it’s economic effects will cause misery for millions.


----------



## Raheem (Dec 1, 2020)

Sprocket. said:


> misery for millions.


And there will always be the likes of Green who see that as a good swap as long as it's not their misery.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> As explained in today's Guardian profile of 'Sir' Philip Green  ....



Click the photo to see pg in all his glory


----------



## hash tag (Dec 5, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> Mrs Q is a staunch patron of Debenhams both online and in the shop, she's not happy about it


The old Debenham's in Battersea and the brand new one in Wandsworth both closed down before lock down. Battersea felt old and tired and both
were uninspirational, I popped into them both occasionally but they really didn't do it for me. I could not understand why they ever opened in Wandsworth
when they were already in trouble and Battersea was failing. They have left a big hole in both Wandsworth and Battersea.
Even the flagship store in Oxford St, nestled among the likes of John Lewis and Selfridges was not brilliant.
Someone quipped on HIGNFY last night that they are 50 years old and nothing had changed during that time.
Very sad for all the staff, but the writing had been on the wall for years.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 5, 2020)

*Warning* : Some very rare shopping talk from me incoming -- that's the *W of W doing Dry December (and on a Saturday too!!  )* effect! 

I got a pair of good but inexpensive pair of black jeans from Swansea's Debenhams today -- £18=
(And an excellent pair of half-price Caterpillar** boots there a fortnight ago --£58:95).
**Wasn't there something *Bad* about Caterpillars??? :confused -- can't remember ....

The man who took my payment thought he was lucky -- he has a new retail job lined up already, late January -- he reckons Tescos will be good because food stores are doing alright. A lot better than no job I suppose! -- he seemed happy about it anyway ....

But Debenhams was rammed to the rafters on both floors here this morning -- admittedly one of the busiest pre-Xmas Saturdays  ... queues at the tills were ridiculous.

I suppose people were bargain-hunting, and there _were_ a lot of third-of-price and half-price reductions there.

And Debenhams' closing-down sale hasn't even properly started yet -- that's for Boxing Day onwards apparantly  -- for those crazy enough to treat sales-shopping as an Xmas holiday treat!!!
   <----that's a back-in-the-pub-or-at-least-home-drinking-by-then reaction!! *Holiday recovery*, for me, that'll be


----------



## stavros (Dec 5, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> he reckons Tescos will be good because food stores are doing alright.



I suspect Tesco et al will be OK for a good while yet, unless someone at their head totally fucks them up somehow.

However, aren't Amazon circling the home delivery market for food too? The lockdowns may have nudged some towards doing grocery shopping online in the longer term.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 6, 2020)

We are seeing the biggest change since second world war Crazy golf on the first floor? UK’s department stores face radical remake


----------



## hash tag (Dec 6, 2020)

stavros said:


> I suspect Tesco et al will be OK for a good while yet, unless someone at their head totally fucks them up somehow.
> 
> However, aren't Amazon circling the home delivery market for food too? The lockdowns may have nudged some towards doing grocery shopping online in the longer term.


Amazon bought out whole foods a year or two back, so not just delivery. I believe they are also rolling out till free stores


----------



## shakespearegirl (Dec 6, 2020)

I can’t understand the pension deficit thing, when I had my own company and missed two pension payments for employees (my biz partner was charged with setting up and organising it) I got a letter from the pension people saying id be fined if it wasn’t all up to date within 14 days and if it happened again it would be a big fine. Totally fair enough, we’d fucked up, how can they get away with it for so long


----------



## Cloo (Dec 9, 2020)

Attended a webinar and read the paper it was based on afterwards this week for my work,  about how buildings and places could change - was really interesting, a number of good, well informed speakers from design, real estate and academia.

Basically 'central business districts' as we know them might be pretty fucked.... you're less likely to get mono-occupied mega-buildings. They'll have to look at making buildings much more adaptable for multiple uses. Personally I reckon we need to find some mechanism, dunno how, to get ordinary people living in city centres again - result: loads more people who could walk/bike to work; retail/entertainment not being totally reliant on business or tourism if that shit happens again so much more sustainable rather than there being big 'dead zones' out of working hours, and so on. I mean, maybe this will happen if they become such deserts without residential that the land value collapses until you can afford to put residential there, but I can't believe that it won't remain super pricey because of the potential for change of use.

The local high street however has some interesting options with more people WFH - local areas may be expected to supply more for our social and work needs, a few people saying that hotels/restaurants/pubs may really be looking at aiming to provide and monetise that 'third space' for people who want to work at home but get out of the house a bit, which I think they will want to do once that's an option. I certainly would. Independent cafes, restaurants and shops that won't be dropping and renegotiating 100s of leases for the next few years will actually be at a distinct advantage against chains - provided they can keep afloat. 

At the beginning of this I thought we would all rush back to life as before when this was over, but I really don't think so now and I don't think it'll necessarily be possible. There's likely to be some pretty profound affects on the whole urban infrastructure we've been used to.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 9, 2020)

Many years ago I had to do a project or an essay for school and I did it on my high street, quite a major one. Even as a child I noted how it changed from a high street full of small independent shops to one that was dominated by financial services iebanks, estate agents and building society's. I m sure they accounted for over 75% of premises. It appeared all the shopping was done back then in three major department stores and two shopping centres. 
Is it just a natural form of progress that major high streets are closing down and for all sorts of reasons?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 5, 2021)

Paperchase at risk I expect we'll see more of this, plenty of successful well known retailers suddenly under threat because their business model means they can't make money in a pandemic.


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 5, 2021)

pinkmonkey said:


> Paperchase at risk I expect we'll see more of this, plenty of successful well known retailers suddenly under threat because their business model means they can't make money in a pandemic.


That's a shame, they seemed like one of the few places left on the high street that had decent quality stock


----------



## cybershot (Jan 5, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> That's a shame, they seemed like one of the few places left on the high street that had decent quality stock



All personal preference and opinions obviously, but to me it was just more over priced tat that most card shops stock.

To be honest I really like some of the online card shops like Thortful. (NOT Moonpig or other crappy one that advertised on TV)

Once you buy a number of cards they apply a decent discount which is probably on par price wise to going to crap factory.


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 5, 2021)

cybershot said:


> All personal preference and opinions obviously, but to me it was just more over priced tat that most card shops stock.
> 
> To be honest I really like some of the online card shops like Thortful. (NOT Moonpig or other crappy one that advertised on TV)
> 
> Once you buy a number of cards they apply a decent discount which is probably on par price wise to going to crap factory.


I remember the stationery and notebook type stuff being a lot better than typical high street shops but tbf looking at the website right now perhaps it's just whsmiths with less chlaustrophobia


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2021)

pinkmonkey said:


> Paperchase at risk I expect we'll see more of this, plenty of successful well known retailers suddenly under threat because their business model means they can't make money in a pandemic.


Not surprised they’re folding


----------



## hash tag (Jan 5, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Not surprised they’re folding


 
There is a joke there for your thread.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2021)

hash tag said:


> There is a joke there for your thread.


It’s not good enough to grace that thread


----------



## ska invita (Jan 5, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Not surprised they’re folding


Surprise at shops closing is no longer a thing


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 5, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> That's a shame, they seemed like one of the few places left on the high street that had decent quality stock


Nah quality and design wise it turned to shit 5 years or so ago.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Surprise at shops closing is no longer a thing


Especially considering their business had been stationery for that long


----------



## hash tag (Jan 5, 2021)

Did you know I tried to open a papershop. It blew down a few days later.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 5, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Especially considering their business had been stationery for that long


Thou Shalt Not Covert Thy Neighbours Pun


----------



## hash tag (Jan 5, 2021)

Watching winter walks, I am starting to catch up with the beautiful Lemn Sissay. Reading up on him, I found this (admittedly not all shops are/were the same) Paperchase laughing at young people in care? Please stop. It's Christmas. - Lemn Sissay


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 13, 2021)

Six Debenhams' stores we not be reopening, as talks continue to rescue other parts of the business.



> Debenhams has revealed that six of its stores will not reopen, with 320 jobs to be affected.
> 
> 
> Employees at stores in Portsmouth, Staines, Harrogate, Weymouth and Worcester, have been told these stores will not reopen after the end of coronavirus restrictions.
> ...











						Debenhams reveals six stores - including flagship Oxford Street branch - will not reopen after lockdown
					

Problems at Debenhams pre-date the coronavirus crisis but government restrictions aimed at the pandemic were the last straw.




					news.sky.com


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 13, 2021)

My local Debenhams didn't feel much different to Primark before all this coronavirus stuff kicked off


----------



## miss direct (Jan 13, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> My local Debenhams didn't feel much different to Primark before all this coronavirus stuff kicked off


Apart from the prices, right?


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 13, 2021)

miss direct said:


> Apart from the prices, right?


Oh yeah totes


----------



## krink (Jan 25, 2021)

All Debenhams stores to close and 12 thousand jobs gone. Boohoo have bought the debenhams company but won't be keeping the shops. For towns like mine - Sunderland - this will be a really big blow to the town centre as Debenhams was the unofficial star attraction. Really bad news all round.
Apparently Asos are buying the rest of Arcadia.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 25, 2021)

Yeah, losing Debenhams is going to leave a big hole in Worthing town centre too. If the standalone Arcadia stores - Burtons, Top Shop, Miss Selfridge and Top Man - also disappear, which seems highly likely, that would make it even worst.


----------



## Elpenor (Jan 25, 2021)

Bad news for Taunton also, where the back office was based I think.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 25, 2021)

I never got Deb's strategy. For many years they had a store in Battersea which was pretty scuzzy and little used.
A few years ago they opened up a major new flagship store about a mile away in Wandsworth, which didn't really get it.
I can understand them turning down Mike Ashley a few times. To be realistic, the writing was on the wall for them for years now.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 25, 2021)

Very large Debenhams in Guildford, right on the river, guess that will be executive flats in a couple of years. Never really did get on with them as stores though, always having to walk through the perfume department to get anywhere meant you started your shopping experience choking.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 25, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Very large Debenhams in Guildford, right on the river, guess that will be executive flats in a couple of years. Never really did get on with them as stores though, always having to walk through the perfume department to get anywhere meant you started your shopping experience choking.



That was a gas designed to put you in a suggestible state.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 25, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Very large Debenhams in Guildford, right on the river, guess that will be executive flats in a couple of years. Never really did get on with them as stores though, always having to walk through the perfume department to get anywhere meant you started your shopping experience choking.


Oh yes, forgot that one. Was never brilliant, but great location.
Is it not the same with perfume depts most department stores; Selfridges or Harrods - not Fortnums  
Can't think why?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 25, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Is it not the same with perfume depts most department stores; Selfridges or Harrods - not Fortnums
> Can't think why?




And duty free shops at the airport, hideous.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 25, 2021)

krink said:


> All Debenhams stores to close and 12 thousand jobs gone. Boohoo have bought the debenhams company but won't be keeping the shops. For towns like mine - Sunderland - this will be a really big blow to the town centre as Debenhams was the unofficial star attraction. Really bad news all round.
> Apparently Asos are buying the rest of Arcadia.


I expect ASOS won't want the shops either.


----------



## stavros (Jan 25, 2021)

Our Debenhams isn't far from the still empty old BHS site.


----------



## quiet guy (Jan 25, 2021)

Massive store in Sheffield centre and another big store in Meadowhall. High streets are going to look really bleak when these stores close down and the retail parks and out of town shopping centres are looking more and more fucked as these chains close down.


----------



## BlanketAddict (Jan 25, 2021)

Primark/Poundland/Wilko are pretty much the only shops that have plenty of customers (not including the supermarkets) in my town.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 25, 2021)

55 million for Deb's is fucking nothing


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 25, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> 55 million for Deb's is fucking nothing



It's the most on offer, for the name & website, not the shops, which no one wanted to take on.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 25, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's the most on offer, for the name & website, not the shops, which no one wanted to take on.



I know, it's just astonishing.

Better than a quid for BHS mind


----------



## krink (Jan 25, 2021)

Asos have said they're not interested in the remaining Arcadia group shops and they will all close too.


----------



## krink (Jan 25, 2021)

Just had a quick Google and if the Asos bid wins, combined with Debenhams it could lead to as many as 24 thousand jobs gone almost overnight and in the middle of a pandemic. Those poor people!


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 25, 2021)

krink said:


> Just had a quick Google and if the Asos bid wins, combined with Debenhams it could lead to as many as 24 thousand jobs gone almost overnight and in the middle of a pandemic. Those poor people!


The person I knew who had a job at Debenhams was barely making above what she'd get on benefits but it's not as simple as that I suppose. Did look like it was the same for a lot of them in store though because they had an own clothes but wear all black policy and everyone's clothes were worn, poorly fitting and made of cheap textiles. Can't help but think if the shop that sold expensive clothes either payed their staff more, or not expected the staff to buy their own work clothes on such a shit wage, it might still be open


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 26, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Very large Debenhams in Guildford, right on the river, guess that will be executive flats in a couple of years. Never really did get on with them as stores though, always having to walk through the perfume department to get anywhere meant you started your shopping experience choking.



I actually threw up all over the pavement outside the Bristol one many years ago due to that smell. Already had a bit of a gippy tummy but that foul fog pushed it over the edge. Was Christmas Eve doing last minute shopping, everyone just assumed I was some Xmas lunchtime pisshead and ignored my distress.  

Always try to hold my breath until I can get up a floor in places like that nowadays.


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 26, 2021)

Going back to the original "is the high street doomed" question, around where I am, among what must now be square miles of empty retail space, independent and small chain stores are managing to get a real good foothold.  They're never going to fill all the space left though which raises some difficult questions about what we're counting as "doomed". A high street where you can buy exactly what you want at the quality you need, but it's not taking up enough space to satisfy landlords? Less jobs than we had before but those jobs are more skilled and pay better? Is exploitation by a boss who lives 3 miles away really better than one who lives hundred or thousands of miles away?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 26, 2021)

BlanketAddict said:


> Primark/Poundland/Wilko are pretty much the only shops that have plenty of customers (not including the supermarkets) in my town.



People are skint aren't they? That's where they shop.

I've been flogging things for my mother on ebay recently, bizarrely the things we've made most cash on is old Habitat catalogues (shes a hoarder). So when you look at the prices in there in the 80's, they're often more expensive - bedding was double the price, but it's all European made, much better quality, for example the sheets and duvet covers have a high thread count and are 100% cotton.

Now we're in a situation where we pay far too much on mortgage, bills, rent and travel and therefore all we can afford to buy with what's left is imported crap. It's so depressing. I myself see Debenhams the store as too expensive and didn't go in.  When Debenhams - the ordinary department store - is too expensive for ordinary people, then I think we've got big problems.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 26, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> Going back to the original "is the high street doomed" question, around where I am, among what must now be square miles of empty retail space, independent and small chain stores are managing to get a real good foothold.  They're never going to fill all the space left though which raises some difficult questions about what we're counting as "doomed". A high street where you can buy exactly what you want at the quality you need, but it's not taking up enough space to satisfy landlords? Less jobs than we had before but those jobs are more skilled and pay better? Is exploitation by a boss who lives 3 miles away really better than one who lives hundred or thousands of miles away?




commercial landlords are feeling the pinch now, after a decade + of erosion of their income. massively leveraged debt is hanging over them and some are relying on their financiers to not call in the debt. i would expect / hope that the reams of dead space will become more affordable as the grim realisation of their predicament hits home- for a long while now, the idea of continual growth by consumers has kept them afloat- the economics of their model is rightly unsustainable. there is a finite amount of artisan bakers that are willing to risk everything to pump cash into the landlords pockets.for too long landlords have been able to gerrymander retail by resolutely leaving their portfolio dormant rather than reducing prices and rents


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 26, 2021)

pinkmonkey said:


> I myself see Debenhams the store as too expensive and didn't go in.  When Debenhams - the ordinary department store - is too expensive for ordinary people, then I think we've got big problems.


One of the problems with Debenhams was not only that it was expensive, but the quality on 80-90% of the garments didn't match up with the price. So for people who could afford the price tag as long as the clothes last longer than the equivalent item in Dunnes, Debenhams was still a no go.


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 26, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> commercial landlords are feeling the pinch now, after a decade + of erosion of their income. massively leveraged debt is hanging over them and some are relying on their financiers to not call in the debt. i would expect / hope that the reams of dead space will become more affordable as the grim realisation of their predicament hits home- for a long while now, the idea of continual growth by consumers has kept them afloat- the economics of their model is rightly unsustainable. there is a finite amount of artisan bakers that are willing to risk everything to pump cash into the landlords pockets.for too long landlords have been able to gerrymander retail by resolutely leaving their portfolio dormant rather than reducing prices and rents


had a good laugh around here at one of the comercial landlords who basically back in April pulled some proper stunts and turned around and said "if you don't like it, leave" when they had everyone on insecure contracts, meaning everyone did just get up and leave. Glorious scenes. I just hope that as things collapse, we lose the naff souless spaces and not the original high streets and town centres. My concern is that the landlords who own the properties around high streets ime tend to be the most bullheaded and likely to dig their own graves in a situation like this. Which will be funny to watch in the short term but we will all suffer for it later down the line


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 26, 2021)

One of my favourite record shops was the original Fopp on Byres Road (well, after it moved from nearby Cresswell Lane arcade).  It was finally ousted from its site, reportedly due to disagreement over rent levels.  Between the lines, the landlord wanted more and more thinking they would get it.  It closed about this time last year and apart from briefly being used by a charity, remains empty.  How much that’s Covid and how much just a continuation of a general move online is hard to tell.

I had a great affection for that branch in that location, and it’s a shame to see high streets losing landmarks. I do wonder what will happen in the future.

In my more optimistic moments I wonder if a new era of community control and the downfall of commercial rentiers is around the corner.

(My more pessimistic moments are more numerous and more dystopian).


----------



## stdP (Jan 26, 2021)

Sadly, we're what looks a bit like a perfect storm in the UK retail market. Lots of retail properties with high rent, companies unable to do business in them, would-be customers losing their jobs and income left, right and centre, hundreds of said companies (both those operating in the buildings and those owning/managing them) leveraged up to the eyeballs from a decade of money-printing and "free" debt; Covid's a breezeblock to the nuts, then you've got Brexit as the liquid nitrogen.

Sadly there's billions of quid in investments (including, sadly, many of our pension funds) relying on all of the above "generating" income. A lot of the smaller commercial landlords might dig their own graves and end up bankrupt, but that would likely just mean cut-price assets for the private equity funds in the gory aftermath. Because of the number of investments on it, you'll likely end up in another "too big to fail" scenario.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Jan 26, 2021)

I love the big old spaces above shops. For years the theory has been that usage of high streets will inevitably change, with a slide towards mixed use and more residential accommodation.

in light of that I just tried to buy a four bedroom flat above a pasty shop and next door to a pub.

no normal mortgage fuckers will touch it as it is in proximity to A3 commercial property takeaway/booze/nightlife

so cash purchase or an absurdly brutal % mortgage with a massive arrangement fee

is no one seeing the potential/change

i don’t think it’s risky at all. People gotta live somewhere

20 meters from the beach as well......

chiselling fuckers


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 26, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> One of my favourite record shops was the original Fopp on Byres Road (well, after it moved from nearby Cresswell Lane arcade).  It was finally ousted from its site, reportedly due to disagreement over rent levels.  Between the lines, the landlord wanted more and more thinking they would get it.  It closed about this time last year and apart from briefly being used by a charity, remains empty.  How much that’s Covid and how much just a continuation of a general move online is hard to tell.
> 
> I had a great affection for that branch in that location, and it’s a shame to see high streets losing landmarks. I do wonder what will happen in the future.
> 
> ...


I look at how people run their own independent businesses online and manage their own marketing via social media and it gives me hope. My neighbour makes and sells garden ornaments and sculptures and she's been flat out this whole pandemic. 
I flippin hate it when chain stores trawl Etsy and copy these people, but I'm now seeing these chain stores go tits up.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 26, 2021)

stdP said:


> including, sadly, many of our pension funds


Yeah, it’s a worry. At the moment we’re mostly living on my partner’s private pension from previous employment (long story about my UC and blah de blah but that the gist), and who know what it relies on for investment.  

That’s the trouble. We’re all too entwined in capital to be able to rejoice at a slow demise.


----------



## stdP (Jan 26, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> we’re mostly living on my partner’s private pension... and who know what it relies on for investment.



Not just private ones either, plenty of state-backed pensions rely on the same things; remember the hoo-ha with the Icelandic banks in 2008 which held a lot of treasury and council funds (including pensions).

Best-case scenario at present would be for companies to realise that rental-backed securities are likely to be extremely fragile for the next five years and not try and kill the golden goose so that even in the event of the big chains losing space, there'll be indy retailers offered cheap and/or short-term rents in order to plug the gaps (especially since high streets exhibit strong network effects; closing of a couple of key shops can hugely affect footfall). Worst-case is a whole bunch of cascading failures as successive layers of investment and leverage are devalued; hopefully not as bad as the 2008 crash but that remains to be seen.

As can be seen on this RICS survey (PDF warning and dull financial data warning), expectations on retail rents are down 60-80% in 2020 and were already dropping a great deal before then. I'm not sure if the rents actually being demanded have dropped substantially yet.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 26, 2021)

stdP said:


> As can be seen on this RICS survey (PDF warning and dull financial data warning), expectations on retail rents are down 60-80% in 2020 and were already dropping a great deal before then. I'm not sure if the rents actually being demanded have dropped substantially yet.


On the parade of approx. 20 shops (mainly food spots) where i work, 75% (not exaggerating) have closed permanently since last March...mainly cafs and lunch spots but not only. I personally know some of the people who have been forced out of business, in each case its because the landlord refused a rent holiday during Covid while they were forced to shut (and when were able to open had about 10% of usual business as its a ghost town round there).
So now these landlords have empty buildings, still no rent coming in, and when Covid does finally pass will have months with no-one to occupy, cost of refitting etc etc.
I cannot understand the landlords thinking, other than being so greedy that the concept of Rent Holiday cannot be agreed to as a point of self-harming principle.
I'm sure government could've done something here....people losing businesses they put so much time and money into, and now left with nothing, other than maybe debt.


----------



## stdP (Jan 26, 2021)

ska invita said:


> I cannot understand the landlords thinking, other than being so greedy that the concept of Rent Holiday cannot be agreed to as a point of self-harming principle.
> I'm sure government could've done something here....people losing businesses they put so much time and money into, and now left with nothing, other than maybe debt.



The only thing that makes sense to my eyes is that if they already own it, they might make better on sitting on their appreciating asset* in the hope of being able to claim "regular" market rents six months down the line, rather than letting it go cheap. Otherwise, as you say, an empty shop isn't enriching anyone (except maybe amazon and friends).

The government won't do anything until the last possible minute because a) that's Boris' MO and b) their biggest donors will be looking for a handout for lost earnings rather than being asked to stop flogging the dying horse.

* Even if it isn't any more


----------



## ska invita (Jan 26, 2021)

stdP said:


> The government won't do anything until the last possible minute because


The last possible minute has passed IMO


----------



## zahir (Jan 26, 2021)

stdP said:


> The only thing that makes sense to my eyes is that if they already own it, they might make better on sitting on their appreciating asset* in the hope of being able to claim "regular" market rents six months down the line, rather than letting it go cheap. Otherwise, as you say, an empty shop isn't enriching anyone (except maybe amazon and friends).



You have to factor in business rates as well - payable by the landlord after a property has been empty for three months. This is going to make some commercial property owners go under.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 26, 2021)

zahir said:


> You have to factor in business rates as well - payable by the landlord after a property has been empty for three months. This is going to make some commercial property owners go under.


There are quite widespread business rate holidays from financial year April 2020-2021 going on at the moment, though god knows the small print and specifics. There are calls for it to be extended for the coming period. I would guess will be announced in March budget
*Business rates holiday for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses*


----------



## zahir (Jan 26, 2021)

That's business rates holidays for occupiers not for property owners.


----------



## Doodler (Jan 26, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> One of the problems with Debenhams was not only that it was expensive, but the quality on 80-90% of the garments didn't match up with the price. So for people who could afford the price tag as long as the clothes last longer than the equivalent item in Dunnes, Debenhams was still a no go.



You think so? I found it was quite cheap for branded men's stuff and I will miss our local branch, which was very close by. That leaves John Lewis downtown or Primark round the corner, it feels like there's a gap between the two which isn't being filled.


----------



## klang (Jan 26, 2021)

ska invita said:


> So now these landlords have empty buildings, still no rent coming in


time to re-visit some old squat-spots


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 26, 2021)

Doodler said:


> You think so? I found it was quite cheap for branded men's stuff and I will miss our local branch, which was very close by. That leaves John Lewis downtown or Primark round the corner, it feels like there's a gap between the two which isn't being filled.


I'm not very familiar with shopping for mens stuff but I know it's a lot different to womens. It's a lot easier to get higher quality men's clothes and better fits. Would you still consider the branded men's stuff you found in Debenhams cheap if it was poorly fitting, thin enough to get shredded after 5 washes and gave you eczema? 

Yeah I know what you mean about that gap, there used to be a spectrum of high street shops like New Look, River Island, H&M but they've all got the same shit in them nowadays. Almost literally the same too, because not only are they cutting costs in exactly the same ways but they're all following the same fashion forcast with no experimental lines.


----------



## Doodler (Jan 26, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> I'm not very familiar with shopping for mens stuff but I know it's a lot different to womens. It's a lot easier to get higher quality men's clothes and better fits. Would you still consider the branded men's stuff you found in Debenhams cheap if it was poorly fitting, thin enough to get shredded after 5 washes and gave you eczema?
> 
> Yeah I know what you mean about that gap, there used to be a spectrum of high street shops like New Look, River Island, H&M but they've all got the same shit in them nowadays. Almost literally the same too, because not only are they cutting costs in exactly the same ways but they're all following the same fashion forcast with no experimental lines.



Mrs Doodler misses Debenhams too, she always liked shopping there. Was it own brand clothes you were having problems with? 

One of the things about the Debenhams menswear range was that there were own-brand ranges like Maine and Mantaray which seemed to be aimed at old Fred who still washes his car every Sunday. I found it reassuring to be reminded there was still at least one demographic age-band beyond my own.


----------



## lazythursday (Jan 26, 2021)

I've always had a soft spot for Debenhams - partly based on childhood nostalgia for the local branch which was one of those sprawling department stores made up of several buildings knocked together, with floors on different levels and confusing staircases and passages taking you to unexpected departments. In recent years as a fashion-hating middle aged man who just wants some inoffensive clothes without any fuss I've always liked it too - plenty of choice between the various brands, reasonable quality compared to somewhere like H&M, and it's not trying hard to be some kind of funky fashion experience targeting twentysomethings - I just feel like a complete dick and unwelcome if I walk into one of those sorts of shops these days. Not sure where I will go in future, I can't buy all my clothes from the likes of Cotswold Outdoor.


----------



## lazythursday (Jan 26, 2021)

Doodler said:


> Mrs Doodler misses Debenhams too, she always liked shopping there. Was it own brand clothes you were having problems with?
> 
> One of the things about the Debenhams menswear range was that there were own-brand ranges like Maine and Mantaray which seemed to be aimed at old Fred who still washes his car every Sunday. I found it reassuring to be reminded there was still at least one demographic age-band beyond my own.


Yes - sad though my sartorial choices are, I always drew the line at going as far back in the shop as the Maine concession. But those guys still need clothes!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 26, 2021)

There are two shopping centres here which were built around and because of Debenahms. Gonna be pretty grim in both places when they close.


----------



## Numbers (Jan 26, 2021)

Always loved Debenhams and got some great stuff in there over the years, most of which I still have, I liked the one in Lakeside especially.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 27, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> I'm not very familiar with shopping for mens stuff but I know it's a lot different to womens. It's a lot easier to get higher quality men's clothes and better fits. Would you still consider the branded men's stuff you found in Debenhams cheap if it was poorly fitting, thin enough to get shredded after 5 washes and gave you eczema?
> 
> Yeah I know what you mean about that gap, there used to be a spectrum of high street shops like New Look, River Island, H&M but they've all got the same shit in them nowadays. Almost literally the same too, because not only are they cutting costs in exactly the same ways but they're all following the same fashion forcast with no experimental lines.


The supermarkets took a huge chunk of market share off mid market stores like Debenhams, Peacocks and Bon Marche. It's the convenience, it's hard to beat. I was an employee designing for a big high street supplier when George (Asda) started, they headhunted most of their buying and merch team from M&S, I would design for both M&S and George. And the catalogues. And we supplied Mothercare too. We held some character licenses - Barbie was our main one.  The only difference in M&S  and George was their profit margin - I often tell the tale of when I went on holiday and forgot to lock some back to school samples (that had already been booked by M&S)  in my desk drawer - because the sales reps would often scavenge our office for products to sell when we weren't around. Anyway the sales rep found the samples and sold this one item to George without telling me and it was then featured in both of their Back To School catalogues but in M&S it was a fiver more and so the buyer went absolutely postal at the salesman who flogged it to them and refused to beleive he'd sold it to them for the same price. They weren't even supposed to know we supplied George so it was a big deal and heads rolled.  Primark again uses exactly the same factories but on a tiny profit margin compared to Debenhams, M&S etc, this is what I was saying earlier, we're cutting more and more fat off everything and there's nothing left.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 27, 2021)

and the way the trade has changed, back then (80's & 90's) it was common for suppliers to bribe the M&S buyers with extravagent gifts and it got out of hand, they were buying them cars, someone even had an extension for their house bought for them. It got stopped as it got so out of hand,, but now, I can't imagine a supplier having the funds to behave like that, everything is so run down to the bone.


----------



## Doodler (Jan 27, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> I've always had a soft spot for Debenhams - partly based on childhood nostalgia for the local branch which was one of those sprawling department stores made up of several buildings knocked together, with floors on different levels and confusing staircases and passages taking you to unexpected departments. In recent years as a fashion-hating middle aged man who just wants some inoffensive clothes without any fuss I've always liked it too - plenty of choice between the various brands, reasonable quality compared to somewhere like H&M, and it's not trying hard to be some kind of funky fashion experience targeting twentysomethings - I just feel like a complete dick and unwelcome if I walk into one of those sorts of shops these days. Not sure where I will go in future, I can't buy all my clothes from the likes of Cotswold Outdoor.



I know exactly what you mean about the more fashionable/branded clothes stores. It's worst when they're brightly lit and I see myself in one of the mirrors, just look like a recovering alcoholic. I darent approach any of the shop staff in case they start shouting 'You're not my father!' 'Next' is tolerable.


----------



## lazythursday (Jan 27, 2021)

Doodler said:


> I know exactly what you mean about the more fashionable/branded clothes stores. It's worst when they're brightly lit and I see myself in one of the mirrors, just look like a recovering alcoholic. I darent approach any of the shop staff in case they start shouting 'You're not my father!' 'Next' is tolerable.


I've never been a huge fan of Next clothes, though you're right it's at least tolerable to browse. I guess this is all part of the inevitable descent to M&S that happens when you age, if it is still around in ten years.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 27, 2021)

Next is a prime example of what pinkmonkey’s talking about; in the 80’s they were quality clothes, today they are just fast fashion pap that falls apart after five minutes.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 28, 2021)

Remember when Thomas Cook went under, and their shops were taken over by Hays Travel?

Well they have announced another round of closures, with 89 of their current 535 stores going, I suspect more will follow.   









						Travel firm to close store after Covid pandemic takes toll on travel
					

A TRAVEL firm says it is closing a store in Worthing and considering the future of other branches across Sussex amid pressures caused by the Covid…




					www.theargus.co.uk


----------



## moochedit (Jan 28, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Remember when Thomas Cook went under, and their shops were taken over by Hays Travel?
> 
> Well they have announced another round of closures, with 89 of their current 535 stores going, I suspect more will follow.
> 
> ...



Bad timing buying them in October 2019. Must be dodgy for all travel agents whether on or off line.


----------



## stavros (Jan 28, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> I guess this is all part of the inevitable descent to M&S that happens when you age,



Along with the move towards sports casual.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 28, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Remember when Thomas Cook went under, and their shops were taken over by Hays Travel?
> 
> Well they have announced another round of closures, with 89 of their current 535 stores going, I suspect more will follow.
> 
> ...





moochedit said:


> Bad timing buying them in October 2019. Must be dodgy for all travel agents whether on or off line.




Yeah, Hays are decent people, the whole travel industry is ruined and there won't be many survivors once people are able to get moving again.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 28, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> I've never been a huge fan of Next clothes, though you're right it's at least tolerable to browse. I guess this is all part of the inevitable descent to M&S that happens when you age, if it is still around in ten years.


I can't bear either of them despite occassionally still designing for a supplier of theirs. Next is the most successful of the bunch but they're feeling the squeeze - they owned their own head office near Leicester, but  think they put it up for sale in order for someone to buy it and rent it back to them. Yet more fat is cut off, know what I'm saying? If the trade keeps going at this rate we'll all be naked except for thongs and nipple tassles by 2040


----------



## Doodler (Jan 28, 2021)

A vintage aka secondhand clothes stall in the town market here was selling men's and women's overcoats pre lockdown, and quite a few of the men's ones had the Dunn & Co label. They were very well made, better than the most expensive coats in John Lewis. There are still one or two gentlemen's outfitters in town but their clothes look horrible, Telegraph readers' styles like red trousers and so on.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jan 30, 2021)

Saw the Green family will still make about £50m from the recent collapses. None of this shit actually matters to people like that. A dent to ego maybe, but the risk to self financially is pretty much miniscule and they can suck it up, or make profit out of the failure. It's an absolute mess.


----------



## stavros (Jan 30, 2021)

What's the process for taking away his knighthood? They did it for Fred Goodwin, so there must be some kind of precedent.


----------



## MickiQ (Jan 30, 2021)

zahir said:


> You have to factor in business rates as well - payable by the landlord after a property has been empty for three months. This is going to make some commercial property owners go under.


Fetch me my fiddle Ma, I feel the urge to play a tune


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 15, 2021)

It appears that Stockton upon Tees town centre is literally doomed and will be replaced by a park:









						Bulldoze the high street and build a giant park: is Stockton the future of Britain?
					

What do you do when M&S, Debenhams and New Look are all gone? Knock down the shopping centre and replace it with green space. Could the ‘visionary’ plan of Stockton-on-Tees spark a revolution?




					www.theguardian.com
				




I wonder where civic and community life is supposed to thrive in places like this where the high street is destined to join pubs, community centres and the like which have atrophied? The Guardian’s report seems to gloss over the reality of councils and spatial planners embedding the Amazon model of commodification without a word....


----------



## ska invita (Feb 15, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It appears that Stockton upon Tees town centre is literally doomed and will be replaced by a park:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i agree on the general point about loss of community space and the economic infairness of online v bricks etc , however:
it could work, would need to see the plans
despite the headline its not bulldozing the high street i think its bulldozing a shopping mall
there will still be shops in town.
"a consultation exercise found that 80% of respondents were in favour of demolishing Castlegate" - could be true, could be bollocks
open riverside space is more civic than a shitty shopping mall

there are opportunities in this ongoing crisis to turn town centres into nicer, more communal spaces


----------



## brogdale (Feb 15, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It appears that Stockton upon Tees town centre is literally doomed and will be replaced by a park:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also glosses over the potential for other locations less well-placed with picturesque riversides etc. to replicate such a model and what impact the loss of rates might have on local authorities with the greatest demands on their core expenditures.


----------



## lazythursday (Feb 15, 2021)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It appears that Stockton upon Tees town centre is literally doomed and will be replaced by a park:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a shopping centre, not the entire town centre. And I'd have thought you generally get more civic and community life within a park than inside the average shopping mall, many of which are notoriously opposed to any kind of civic life taking place inside.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 15, 2021)

underneath that piece is this from owen hatherley 








						Covid has finished off the old high street, but we can replace it with something better | Owen Hatherley
					

Preston and Wrexham show that communities can find solutions that don’t require big property developers, says Owen Hatherley, culture editor at Tribune




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Feb 15, 2021)

ska invita said:


> there are opportunities in this ongoing crisis to turn town centres into nicer, more communal spaces



I don’t disagree with that. Most High Street’s look and feel bleak.


----------



## Doodler (Feb 15, 2021)

The part-pedestrianised shopping street close to where I live is where many people go to watch the parade of street life: other shoppers, buskers, beggars, charity canvassers, once in a blue moon religious or political proselytisers. Particularly for people who live alone there is a strong need just to see others going about daily life. It is both a commercial and a communal kind of place.

Would a park or some other green space fulfill the same functions? Some parks are busy and well loved, others are forlorn windswept places where people keep their distance from each other.


----------



## muscovyduck (Feb 15, 2021)

Doodler said:


> The part-pedestrianised shopping street close to where I live is where many people go to watch the parade of street life: other shoppers, buskers, beggars, charity canvassers, once in a blue moon religious or political proselytisers. Particularly for people who live alone there is a strong need just to see others going about daily life. It is both a commercial and a communal kind of place.
> 
> Would a park or some other green space fulfill the same functions? Some parks are busy and well loved, others are forlorn windswept places where people keep their distance from each other.


You've hit the nail on the head, some parks are good and some are shit. It's not random, it depends on how they're designed and how the wider area is too. Same as how some pedestrianised high streets are good and some are borderline post-apocalyptic.


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## lazythursday (Feb 15, 2021)

I don't know Stockton specifically but there are few town centres in my opinion that couldn't be improved by more green space. And from the article it seems clear that the proposal is the removal of one moribund shopping centre, with another one close by - not the extinction of all street life.


----------



## pesh (Feb 15, 2021)

loving the illustration, looks like its mostly green roofs on some new luxury apartment blocks with a smaller green area next to them with an open air stage that will never happen because noise.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 22, 2021)

John Lewis, the shopping bellwether might be closing another 8 branches. Search John Lewis in the news and you will see there are lots of local news sites fearing that their local JL might be closing. Sad times for shops and their employees. John Lewis considering fresh store closures in response to Covid


----------



## brogdale (Feb 22, 2021)

hash tag said:


> John Lewis, the shopping bellwether might be closing another 8 branches. Search John Lewis in the news and you will see there are lots of local news sites fearing that their local JL might be closing. Sad times for shops and their employees. John Lewis considering fresh store closures in response to Covid


Dead to me since they shut the Waddon Ponds branch.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 11, 2021)

Will be losing even more outlets and jobs by the look of it John Lewis posts £517m loss and warns of more store closures


----------



## ska invita (Mar 14, 2021)

some "good" graphs here








						Pandemic impact 'yet to be felt' on High Streets
					

An average of 48 outlets per day closed last year, but there may be worse to come.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				


















"
More than 17,500 chain stores and other venues closed in Great Britain last year, according to new data.
That's an average rate of 48 closures a day.
.....the figures,... include hospitality and leisure venues*, but not independent retailers *"


----------



## hash tag (Mar 14, 2021)

No surprises really.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 14, 2021)

The independent stats are going to be crucial. Lots of shops propped up by debt to pay rent. Central London indie eateries look massacred from what I've seen so far.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 15, 2021)

Thorntons now









						Meltdown at Thorntons: chocolatier to shut all  shops in bitter pandemic blow
					

After more than a century, the ‘best sweetshop in town’ to shut stores down




					www.standard.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Mar 15, 2021)

Scuppered by the pandemic and supermarkets    it's not like they don't  have an online presence, because they do. They are no longer locally family owned and no better than average chocolate. Very sad all the same





						Retail Store Statement | Thorntons
					

Thorntons




					www.thorntons.co.uk


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 15, 2021)

Tbh, I’ve always found chocolate shops a bit of a weird one. Like that other one, Hotel Chocolate.

Not that I don’t like chocolate, I do. It’s just an entire store for high end chocolate never appealed to me as a concept. At least not in the same way as a proper sweet shop with other things like toffees and fudge and boiled sweets etc.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 15, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> Tbh, I’ve always found chocolate shops a bit of a weird one. Like that other one, Hotel Chocolate.
> 
> Not that I don’t like chocolate, I do. It’s just an entire store for high end chocolate never appealed to me as a concept. At least not in the same way as a proper sweet shop with other things like toffees and fudge and boiled sweets etc.



They're dead handy if you want a moderately extravagant gift and don't have any decent ideas.

I don't think I'd ever pop into one of those places to buy something for myself.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 15, 2021)

If nothing else it demonstrates just how much these places still depend on the seasonal footfall from Christmas / Easter for survival.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 15, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> Tbh, I’ve always found chocolate shops a bit of a weird one. Like that other one, Hotel Chocolate.
> 
> Not that I don’t like chocolate, I do. It’s just an entire store for high end chocolate never appealed to me as a concept. At least not in the same way as a proper sweet shop with other things like toffees and fudge and boiled sweets etc.


Thornton's or hotel chocolat high end   

On the other side of this coin, guess who doesn't appear to be impacted too badly; estate agents


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 15, 2021)

There's a hotel chocolate place in Guildford and they do whippy style ice cream, got one for BB2 and the price, well, had to go and have a beer just to calm down from the shagging I took at the till.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 15, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Thornton's or hotel chocolat high end



I mean, pretty much all my chocolate comes from the supermarket and is stuff like bounty/crunchie/picnic etc


----------



## hash tag (Mar 15, 2021)

Sadly yes.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 15, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> There's a hotel chocolate place in Guildford and they do whippy style ice cream, got one for BB2 and the price, well, had to go and have a beer just to calm down from the shagging I took at the till.


Chocolate chain store giving the illusion of being high end by charging high end prices. Have you tried looking even closer to home? Handmade Chocolate Archives - ARTHOUSE Unlimited


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 18, 2021)

The Dark Ages – About Iceland
					






					about.iceland.co.uk
				








> So Bill Grimsey sees himself as a rescuer of companies.As the Focus DIY chief executive prepared for a meeting with creditors of Focus DIY at which he persuaded them to back a company voluntary arrangement (CVA), Grimsey gleefully told radio listeners that he ‘saved the Iceland group in 2001’.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 18, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> The Dark Ages – About Iceland
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that article can basically be summarised as company was doing OK under old boss.
Old boss leaves and is replaced by City whizzkid as new boss
New boss fucks everything up
Old boss comes back and cleans up mess
City whizzkid who is clearly delusional brags about how good he is.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 24, 2021)

More bad news from John Lewis.   



> The John Lewis Partnership has revealed plans to close a further eight stores, leaving 1,465 jobs under threat.
> 
> It cut 1,300 jobs last year through eight other store closures.
> 
> ...











						COVID-19: John Lewis stores scrapped with almost 1,500 jobs at risk - is yours closing?
					

The company reveals the locations of the latest sites that will not reopen following the lifting of lockdown restrictions.




					news.sky.com


----------



## hash tag (Mar 24, 2021)

Makes you wonder about the longer term viability of John Lewis.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 24, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Makes you wonder about the longer term viability of John Lewis.



Apparently they are going to start putting John Lewis click & collect outlets within some of their Waitrose supermarkets, so should survive in some form.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 24, 2021)

Maybe they are reworking that one, but i am sure you have been able to collect John Lewis stuff from Waitrose for quite a long time now. It has certainly been the case around these parts.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 25, 2021)

More jobs to go and more empty shop units, as Santander plans to close 111 branches, including my local branch, which I've been expecting for a long time, as it's hardly used, and it seemed odd that they maintained two in town, I'll just pay in at my local sub-Post Office instead, still gutted for the staff.   



> Banking giant Santander has announced plans to close over 100 branches across the UK, after customer changes were inflicted by the Covid pandemic. The firm announced on Thursday that all of the affected sites will close by the end of August after branch transactions fell by 33% over the two years before the pandemic - declining by a further 50% in 2020. According to the bank, it will mean a remaining network of 452 branches following the proposed changes.
> 
> Adam Bishop, head of branches, said: “Branch usage by customers has fallen considerably over recent years so we have made the difficult decision to consolidate our presence in areas where we have multiple branches relatively close together. The majority of the closing branches are within three miles of another branch and the furthest is five miles away.











						Full list of 111 Santander bank branches to close as Covid hits firm
					

The firm has released the full list of branches




					www.business-live.co.uk


----------



## muscovyduck (Mar 25, 2021)

3-5 miles is fucking ages if you live in a big city, especially if it's 3-5 miles in the wrong direction


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 25, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> 3-5 miles is fucking ages if you live in a big city, especially if it's 3-5 miles in the wrong direction



Most banks have arrangements for everyday banking to be done at the Post Office, which saves the day somewhat, and gives the PO extra revenue.






						Everyday Banking | Personal & Business Accounts | Post Office®
					

Manage your personal or business Everyday Banking over the counter at any of our 11,500 UK Post Offices. Learn more about our banking services at postoffice.co.uk.




					www.postoffice.co.uk


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 25, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Most banks have arrangements for everyday banking to be done at the Post Office, which saves the day somewhat, and gives the PO extra revenue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have only deposited 2 or 3 cheques in the last 2 years and the nearest Natwest is a pain to park near so I would have to drive 15  mins and then walk for another 10 or drive 20 mins and walk for 5 if I went the next nearest.
On the other hand the local PO is a 10 minute walk from my house, it usually takes an extra day for the money to appear in my account but I am truly not arsed about that.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 25, 2021)

It does make laundering physical cash slightly harder these days. Banks are becoming a slog for non reportable sums and many retailers have a cap on physical cash - most franchised  car dealers will only take a grand in cash for insurance reasons - the rest on finance or card. Tough times for those looking to move on bundles of soiled low value notes


----------



## hash tag (Mar 25, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> More jobs to go and more empty shop units, as Santander plans to close 111 branches, including my local branch, which I've been expecting for a long time, as it's hardly used, and it seemed odd that they maintained two in town, I'll just pay in at my local sub-Post Office instead, still gutted for the staff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus, in my dim past, I have worked in at least 3 of those branches when they were still Abbey, maybe more


----------



## hash tag (Mar 25, 2021)

Just checked the list again- I worked at 6 of those branches scheduled for closure  
Cant believe they are closing down places like Putney High Street. That High Street is always so busy, so much so
that I make a point of avoiding the place altogether.
I used to get to the Putney branch on time, got dragged down the Spotted Horse by the manager most days about 12, because I was
quite good at computer games and the loser bought the drinks, which meant that my boss did not shell out very often when playing against lots of other locals.
Stayed in pub until about closing time at 3, so, well inebriated, tried to find my way home afterwards.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 26, 2021)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 26, 2021)

Badgers said:


>





The landlords are pissed so


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 26, 2021)

won’t someone come for the landlords?


----------



## hash tag (Mar 26, 2021)

Jessops. Again   








						Camera retailer Jessops calls in administrators for a second time
					

Move by firm controlled by Dragons’ Den panellist Peter Jones puts 120 jobs at risk




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## ska invita (Mar 26, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> The landlords are pissed so



Landlord strike


----------



## pinkmonkey (Mar 26, 2021)

This corporation landlord thing, sounds a bit South Korean.  LG, Samsung, Dae Woo etc own tower blocks in the major cities and rent apartments out. Imagine living in Top Shop heights or Thorntons Towers?


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 27, 2021)

Those companies are so diverse though, they make everything, they are built using Samsung construction companies, fitted with Samsung lifts, probably financed by Samsung finance companies. I believe they even own clothing brands. 

When in Korea, my ex pointed out the high rise building they had been project manager for during construction whilst for when they worked for one part of Samsung.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 27, 2021)

I imagine the WeWork buildings are hanging by a thread. They were in bad shape before this shit started.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 27, 2021)

Wonder if I can get my office at the Share as a flat?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 27, 2021)

Badgers said:


> I imagine the WeWork buildings are hanging by a thread. They were in bad shape before this shit started.



Oddly two of these Co working places have opened in my local high street in the past 12 months and both seem quite busy, a third is being kitted out down a side street as well. Guess if you need to work from home but don’t have a dedicated space and kids/flatmates etc. make it hard they could be useful..?


----------



## muscovyduck (Mar 27, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Oddly two of these Co working places have opened in my local high street in the past 12 months and both seem quite busy, a third is being kitted out down a side street as well. Guess if you need to work from home but don’t have a dedicated space and kids/flatmates etc. make it hard they could be useful..?


A lot of people who wanted to set up a business but could only afford to do it as a small side hustle while they held down a full time job, suddenly found themselves on furlough in March 2020.


----------



## og ogilby (Mar 27, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Most banks have arrangements for everyday banking to be done at the Post Office, which saves the day somewhat, and gives the PO extra revenue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm hoping they don't close my local as paying cash in at the Santander ATM is free but taking it to the post office would cost me about 1% of the total paid in.

Have they listed the branches that are closing?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 27, 2021)

og ogilby said:


> I'm hoping they don't close my local as paying cash in at the Santander ATM is free but taking it to the post office would cost me about 1% of the total paid in.



I am in the same position, but hadn't thought about the charge for paying in cash over the counter, that's a bugger.



> Have they listed the branches that are closing?



Yep, see this post -









						Is the High Street doomed
					

No surprises really.




					www.urban75.net


----------



## Badgers (Mar 27, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Oddly two of these Co working places have opened in my local high street in the past 12 months and both seem quite busy, a third is being kitted out down a side street as well. Guess if you need to work from home but don’t have a dedicated space and kids/flatmates etc. make it hard they could be useful..?


When we moved to the Shard it was cheaper than the same size WeWork office believe it or not. 

Will people WFH for a long while to come some people will want small, local shared office spaces to escape from home. Couple of my staff are already doing this. Costing them £30-40 a week and gets them away from their kids  

WeWork and such need a lot of commuting people into cities.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Mar 27, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> Those companies are so diverse though, they make everything, they are built using Samsung construction companies, fitted with Samsung lifts, probably financed by Samsung finance companies. I believe they even own clothing brands.
> 
> When in Korea, my ex pointed out the high rise building they had been project manager for during construction whilst for when they worked for one part of Samsung.


When I started in the shoe trade, in sneakers, development was done in Busan. The sourcing companies we used were Dae Woo, Samsung and Sun Kyong. LG had petrol stations, even cigarettes and chewing gum.


----------



## moochedit (Mar 27, 2021)

og ogilby said:


> I'm hoping they don't close my local as paying cash in at the Santander ATM is free but taking it to the post office would cost me about 1% of the total paid in.



I paid £100 in cash into my barclays account at a post office last week and they didn't take any percentage out of it.


----------



## og ogilby (Mar 27, 2021)

moochedit said:


> I paid £100 in cash into my barclays account at a post office last week and they didn't take any percentage out of it.


I think it will only show on your monthly bank charges?


----------



## moochedit (Mar 27, 2021)

og ogilby said:


> I think it will only show on your monthly bank charges?


Oh


----------



## muscovyduck (Mar 27, 2021)

The charges thing is a problem because looking at the areas on the list I'm familiar with, where there's two or three 'close by' they're closing the ones in the more deprived areas


----------



## moochedit (Mar 27, 2021)

Just checked my bank app and no charges taken yet. Just shows the 100 pound going in. Someone paid me in cash for something i sold the other week and as i normally use contactless these days i thought i'd pay it in. Won't do that again though if they do charge me later.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 27, 2021)

The Post Office doesn't charge for banking cash, that would be down to the bank, and normally it only applies to business accounts.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 27, 2021)

Charging you to hold your own money is such a fucking swindle, especially when you remember that banks make money just by literally holding your cash in the first place. Such shit should be made illegal.


----------



## og ogilby (Mar 27, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Charging you to hold your own money is such a fucking swindle, especially when you remember that banks make money just by literally holding your cash in the first place. Such shit should be made illegal.


I think the legalities of you putting your money in a bank is that you have agreed to loaning the bank your money as per their terms and conditions.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 27, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Charging you to hold your own money is such a fucking swindle, especially when you remember that banks make money just by literally holding your cash in the first place. Such shit should be made illegal.



It's normal to have charges on business accounts, and Santander offers a very good deal compared with others, I pay a flat £12.50 pm, which covers everything apart from paying in anything over £1k cash a month over the counter, then it's only 0.7%, it's free if you pay in via the machine.

However, I get £100 cashback per year & 0.1% interest on the balance, so I pay slightly under £50 a year, about £150 less than RBS used to charge me.

My personal account is with Tesco Bank, which pays 1% on balances, plus clubcard points when ever use the debt card anywhere, and extra points in Tesco outlets.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 5, 2021)

Use them or lose them........" When you buy from a small business, an actual person does a little happy dance. "  









						Shop owners make desperate 'use us or lose us' plea as 15,000 are forced to shut
					

EXCLUSIVE: The Mirror campaign is supporting retailers, who have lost £30billion of sales over the pandemic, by urging you to shop as lockdown eases




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## NoXion (Apr 5, 2021)

og ogilby said:


> I think the legalities of you putting your money in a bank is that you have agreed to loaning the bank your money as per their terms and conditions.



Of course, but unlike a typical loan most current account holders have the expectation of being able to access their funds at any time. Banks are able to juggle this situation under normal conditions because most people leave the majority of their funds sitting in their accounts. Of course this breaks down when there's a run on the bank.

Fair enough on business accounts, since they're not one of the more important things for an ordinary person to have.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 8, 2021)

As sad as it is, if anyone is looking for a bargain, Debenhams re-open next week with a closing down sale & up to 70% off.









						Debenhams to reopen 97 stores for 70% off final sale next week – full list
					

The 242-year-old department store chain, which went into liquidation last December, said stores will return to business on April 12 - with remaining branches to close on May 15




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Apr 8, 2021)

we are closed because of lockdown and we are closing down because we are bust, but hey, nevermind, come in for another couple of weeks
while we flog off whats left


----------



## hash tag (Apr 8, 2021)

miss direct should be told


cupid_stunt said:


> As sad as it is, if anyone is looking for a bargain, Debenhams re-open next week with a closing down sale & up to 70% off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Badgers (Apr 18, 2021)

My little town has a lot of independents. 

Apparently over the course of the pandemic 19 shops have closed and 23 have opened. Good hear that but it likely does not tell the whole story regards rents for the closing/opening or the ages of the businesses etc..


----------



## muscovyduck (Apr 18, 2021)

Badgers said:


> My little town has a lot of independents.
> 
> Apparently over the course of the pandemic 19 shops have closed and 23 have opened. Good hear that but it likely does not tell the whole story regards rents for the closing/opening or the ages of the businesses etc..


A lot of the corona grants have been business rates based, it's likely a lot of people have hung on to premises to keep the income (the margins can be massive on this) and will close once the grant money dries up.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 18, 2021)

Slightly off piste I know, but see people are worried about the fate of the buildings where department stores have closed. It's unlikely one company could take any on. A dreadful example was allowed in Croydon. The building became a disaster after Allders closed.








						Landmark UK department stores at risk as Covid changes city centres
					

Locally beloved buildings, from 1930s classics to brutalist edifices, are facing developers’ wrecking balls




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Badgers (Apr 25, 2021)

Café Rouge has closed down here. Replaced by a pizza and burger 'grill' joint which looks like an independent business.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 25, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Slightly off piste I know, but see people are worried about the fate of the buildings where department stores have closed. It's unlikely one company could take any on. A dreadful example was allowed in Croydon. The building became a disaster after Allders closed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They’ll become executive apartments. Debenhams in Guildford is right on the river and already has an underground car park, so is ripe for it.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 25, 2021)

Not sure the debs Guildford is worth saving and is right next to a busy road. The places opposite are rather nice.


----------



## Badgers (May 11, 2021)

Pret a Manger heads to Tesco in battle for new customers
					

The sandwich chain will open cafes in some supermarkets in a bid to reach more people working from home.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Shame for the staff but my heart does not bleed for the Nazi profiteering cunt business.


----------



## MickiQ (May 11, 2021)

Having read that article I have a genuine question is Pret coffee any good? I'm a big fan of both Starbuck and Costa Coffee (the first more than the second) but I've never tried Pret's. Is it actually good enough for someone to pay £20 a month for 5 cups a day. I can't imagine that working unless there is a Pret inside the building where you work.
Greggs coffee is basically the drainage off the dishwashers, the tea is marginally better in the way that being stabbed is preferable to being shot on the ground that you have a better survival chance.


----------



## hash tag (May 11, 2021)

Coffee wars.....I never go never Starbucks employee relations, tax avoidance and racism. Criticism of Starbucks - Wikipedia


----------



## lazythursday (May 11, 2021)

Pret coffee is not particularly nice, though I've had it plenty of times in preference to not queuing up twice. But I had no idea they were Nazi profiteering cunts rather than just bog standard profiteering cunts. 

Now over a year since I have even seen a Pret (they are still pretty rare outside the big city centres in the north) - feels like a remnant of a bygone era.


----------



## Badgers (May 11, 2021)

Never to to Pret 









						Company behind Pret admits to Nazi past - The Day
					

The Reimann family is the second richest in Germany, with stakes in major brands like Pret and Krispy Kreme. Now […]




					theday.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (May 11, 2021)

_“Reimann Senior and Reimann Junior were guilty,” said Peter Harf, spokesman for one of the richest families in Germany, the Reimanns. “The two men have passed away, but they actually belonged in prison.”

The men were in charge of the family’s investments company JAB Holdings during the 1930s and 40s. The family hired a historian to look into their past and has discovered that the Reimanns were committed Nazis who relied heavily on forced labour during the Second World War. The details were first reported in the German newspaper Bild on Sunday.

Today, JAB Holdings owns stakes in well-known brands like Pret a Manger, Dr Pepper and Krispy Kreme.

Back then, it owned an industrial chemicals company in Germany. In 1941 it was deemed a “crucial” firm for the war, as it produced items for Germany’s weapons industry. By 1943 it was using 175 forced labourers, including Russian civilians and French prisoners of war.

Meanwhile, Albert Reimann Sr and his son Albert Reimann Jr were both anti-Semites and Hitler supporters.

Reimann Sr donated to the SS as early as 1931. In 1937, Reimann Jr wrote a letter to Heinrich Himmler describing them as a “purely Aryan family business”. Reimann Jr also wrote a letter to a local mayor complaining that the company’s forced labourers were not working hard enough._


----------



## hash tag (May 11, 2021)

Does this mean we should have no connection with any person who had a long deceased relative who was a Nazi. Should this prevent me from owning a VW a Porsche or an Audi for example? 
Do we not care about recent racists, tax avoiders etc?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Does this mean we should have no connection with any person who had a long deceased relative who was a Nazi. Should this prevent me from owning a VW a Porsche or an Audi for example?
> Do we not care about recent racists, tax avoiders etc?


Yes


----------



## Badgers (May 12, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Does this mean we should have no connection with any person who had a long deceased relative who was a Nazi. Should this prevent me from owning a VW a Porsche or an Audi for example?
> Do we not care about recent racists, tax avoiders etc?


Yes


----------



## toblerone3 (May 12, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes






Badgers said:


> Yes



When you say "Yes" you clearly mean "No" to one or other of the two questions the first in its literal and its rhetorical form.  Up to what threshold do you mean "Yes" and when does your "Yes" become a no. Shades of grey all round really.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 12, 2021)

I have nothing to do with those of Norman ancestry, they did bad things over here back in the day. Whenever I meet someone new we have to sit down and go through their family tree, it’s tricky and needs reference to obscure libraries and so forth, but I think it’s worth it to maintain my integrity. The queue at the bus stop behind me often disagrees and urges me to just pay the driver and get on...


----------



## Badgers (May 12, 2021)

toblerone3 said:


> When you say "Yes" you clearly mean "No" to one or other of the two questions the first in its literal and its rhetorical form.  Up to what threshold do you mean "Yes" and when does your "Yes" become a no. Shades of grey all round really.


Yes


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 12, 2021)

But still fuck Pret, I can make my own sandwiches which are tastier and much cheaper and the person making them washes his hands first, guaranteed.


----------



## Badgers (May 12, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> But still fuck Pret, I can make my own sandwiches which are tastier and much cheaper and the person making them washes his hands first, guaranteed.


Yes


----------



## William of Walworth (May 12, 2021)

Almost all the time I avoid chain coffee in general, and I haven't had a Starbucks one in maybe 30 plus years.
Frothy, weak, "coffee"-flavoured milk! 
And out of principle too, obviously!

I'll very occasionally tolerate Costa at the station, their coffee's a bit stronger and actually quite nice.

But pricey , so I'm better off bringing beer from the shop opposite the station, when I gert** on a train   

**To Bristol! Use that typo when you need to!


----------



## William of Walworth (May 12, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> But still fuck Pret, I can make my own sandwiches which are tastier and much cheaper and the person making them washes his hands first, guaranteed.



I'd rather spend a bit more on Sainsbury's or M & S sandwiches or wraps, when I have to buy take-away snacks, e.g. train journeys ..... 
(So not often since Covid!  )


----------



## ska invita (May 12, 2021)

William of Walworth said:


> Almost all the time I avoid chain coffee in general, and I haven't had a Starbucks one in maybe 30 plus years.


As your post was making me feel old i had to check - the first starbucks opened in the UK 23 years ago in 1998


----------



## William of Walworth (May 12, 2021)

ska invita said:


> As your post was making me feel old i had to check - the first starbucks opened in the UK 23 years ago in 1998



I'm amazed to read that, a work-friend back in about 1990 took me to the Fulham Road one "to see what it was like". 

Or so I thought I'd recalled


----------



## Doodler (May 12, 2021)

William of Walworth said:


> Frothy, weak, "coffee"-flavoured milk!



Starbucks is indeed a bit sickly for my tastes too. Some days you just want a mug of strong tea and a cheese roll, sadly not well catered for now.


----------



## Badgers (May 12, 2021)

William of Walworth said:


> I'll very occasionally tolerate Costa at the station, their coffee's a bit stronger and actually quite nice.


Owned by Coca-Cola now


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2021)

toblerone3 said:


> When you say "Yes" you clearly mean "No" to one or other of the two questions the first in its literal and its rhetorical form.  Up to what threshold do you mean "Yes" and when does your "Yes" become a no. Shades of grey all round really.


Aye to all three, though no one should have an Audi, Porsche or a VW


----------



## hash tag (May 12, 2021)

Can you also get rid of my new boss for me as she is French with German heritage - PLEASE.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 12, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Aye to all three, though no one should have an Audi, Porsche or a VW




Why not? General hatred of cars and bicycles or just simple Teutophobia?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why not? General hatred of cars and bicycles or just simple Teutophobia?


Just anything with a noisy smokey belching engine that goes too fast


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 12, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Just anything with a noisy smokey belching engine that goes too fast



So are these OK?




No smoke, no noise and both capable of driving at 10mph.

Moar of this for you?


----------



## hash tag (May 12, 2021)

No, they are not OK. I am yet to be converted to electric cars, though I saw a Porsche very similar to that in your picture which looked OK.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> So are these OK?
> 
> View attachment 267895View attachment 267896
> 
> ...


No thanks. I’d rather live in a world where private car ownership is a taboo


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 12, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> No thanks. I’d rather live in a world where private car ownership is a taboo



Well, fuck off to Sark.


----------



## hash tag (May 12, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> No thanks. I’d rather live in a world where private car ownership is a taboo


Sorry, OU but I could not do my job without owning a car


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Sorry, OU but I could not do my job without owning a car


Yeah you could - you could have a car from a car pool provided by your employer


----------



## souljacker (May 12, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Yeah you could - you could have a car from a car pool provided by your employer



I'd need it every day though. And I'm not driving all the way back to the office on Friday to return it back to the pool then going to get it again on Monday. So I may as well just have it all the time.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 12, 2021)

souljacker said:


> I'd need it every day though. And I'm not driving all the way back to the office on Friday to return it back to the pool then going to get it again on Monday. So I may as well just have it all the time.





It's fine, an employer could provide a car pool with a car for each employee, would discourage public transport and cycling, but OU would get his way so everyone's a winner.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2021)

I’m talking about aspirations. I’ll leave the finer points for the boffins to thrash out


----------



## hash tag (May 12, 2021)

Yeah you could - you could have a car from a car pool provided by your employer 

Nah, we have one car shared between several of us.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Yeah you could - you could have a car from a car pool provided by your employer
> 
> Nah, we have one car shared between several of us.


Good


----------



## hash tag (May 12, 2021)

It's so not good. Very very rarely, we could have 5 people in the office at once, each needing a car.
If attending a faller, tow people should attend and each in separate cars.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 12, 2021)

Just have a pool car each and a few more scattered around town, just in case. Environmentalism is a doddle.


----------



## NoXion (May 12, 2021)

Or just let people have cars, for fuck's sake. This anti-car shit is just the flipside of the coin to the frothing righties who think trains are the technological incarnation of Communism.


----------



## klang (May 12, 2021)

William of Walworth said:


> the Fulham Road


that was the first one I ever saw in the flesh.


----------



## cybershot (May 12, 2021)

What the fucks any of this got to do with the high st. Fuck off to the car threads.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2021)

cybershot said:


> What the fucks any of this got to do with the high st. Fuck off to the car threads.


Now you know what it’s like for cyclists on cycling threads


----------



## hash tag (May 14, 2021)

Sad one off news 
BBC News - Arthur Beale: Sailing goods business closes shop after 500 years








						Arthur Beale: Sailing goods business closes shop after 500 years
					

The Arthur Beale store, which sells specialist marine supplies, says the pandemic has forced its closure.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				



Sailing ship in the West End   
I thought Hatchards was part of Waterstones


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 14, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Sad one off news
> BBC News - Arthur Beale: Sailing goods business closes shop after 500 years
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, very sad, they're not the only boating chandlers in London now, but they were the only theatre chandler. Will miss them - the boating chandlers often keep odd hours, but you knew when Arthur Beales would be open and they were the most central. They made a big effort to cater for the London liveaboard community and employed some of us too.


----------



## pinkmonkey (May 14, 2021)

I'll never forgive Philip Green for this one  Ikea in advanced talks to acquire former Topshop flagship - Retail Gazette


----------



## ska invita (May 30, 2021)

a month to go:


> Commercial landlords and tenants braced for £6bn rent decision​
> Tensions between commercial landlords and tenants are bubbling up ahead of a crunch decision that will determine who foots the £6bn rent bill built up during the pandemic. The British Retail Consortium said on Sunday that two-thirds of retailers in the UK are at risk of legal action on at least one of their stores, after a ban on evictions and debt collection from commercial tenants lifts on June 30. The BRC warned that the ending of the ban could lead to the closure of “thousands of shops” if property owners push tenants for unpaid rent.
> 
> Kate Nicholls, chief executive of UKHospitality, said in the hospitality sector 40 per cent of businesses had not reached an agreement on rent arrears. “Once the moratorium is lifted, those [businesses] are most at risk and you would expect to see some legal action happening pretty quickly if agreement isn’t reached,” she said. “There is a real risk to businesses and jobs.” However, landlords have hit back at these claims. “It is disappointing to see the BRC failing to recognise that the vast majority of property owners and tenants have already reached agreement on rent,” said Melanie Leech, chief executive of the British Property Federation.


The notion that "the vast majority of property owners and tenants have already reached agreement on rent,” is misleading. One independent family run cafe near my work in central london has just reopened - normally rammed with customers, instead its tumbleweed. They are losing money being open, I asked them about their rent situation and they said they haven't paid anything since first lockdown but the "arrangement" they have "agreed" to is that all the back rent will still be paid but on top of normal rent once the rent holiday ends. They owe something like £80k.

Considering they were only making ends meet before (very successful cafe but huge rent bill), and business has now gone off a cliff, either the landlord will reconsider and wipe off that back debt or they will close. They are already making plans to close, looking tentatively for alternative work nearer home.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Now you know what it’s like for cyclists on cycling threads


They bring it in themselves though.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Jul 1, 2021)

Gap is going online. Shit shops, fast fashion, crap gear. Probably treats staffs abominably.

But now they'll do the same thing in warehouses. 










						Gap to close all 81 stores in UK and Ireland
					

The fashion chain says it will be online-only from the end of September.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Jul 1, 2021)

Yet more Sad news as ever for the staff, it won't be the large big chain to go, for sure. I feel another place that's struggling, a fave of mine, is Cotswold Outdoor. I am not sure they handled the Pandemic or reopening very well. It no longer feels so good and appear to be having huge and endless sales.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 1, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Yet more Sad news as ever for the staff, it won't be the large big chain to go, for sure. I feel another place that's struggling, a fave of mine, is Cotswold Outdoor. I am not sure they handled the Pandemic or reopening very well. It no longer feels so good and appear to be having huge and endless sales.


Suspect a lot of people are going camping this year though, they ought to be doing good off the back of that, though possibly can’t get stock like all the bike shops.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 1, 2021)

I was forgetting, C. O. Have done some sort of deal with runners needs. There are also the cheap versions like decathlon and are Blacks still going even.
Besides, look what happened to Evans, when you thought they should be thriving. Also, don't forget cyclesurgery.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 4, 2021)

Many years ago at school, maybe in economics, we discussed people having more leisure time and less work time  it has not happened for me but I see there are more leisure things creeping into shopping areas ie Grants in Croydon, Deb's in Wandsworth and now Deb's in Clapham. 
I caught the tail end of a radio article yesterday about 15 minute high streets. Making way for less shops but with more housing n stuff. Link here Ipswich plans 15-minute town to reshape high street


----------



## UrbaneFox (Jul 4, 2021)

John Lewis plans to build 10,000 rental homes
					

The department store chain says it wants to address the UK's housing shortage and support communities.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




A mix of new builds, and ex-John Lewis shops being turned into flats.

Living alongside John Lewis regulars, flats furnished with JL stuff, mini-Waitrose next door. I could cope with that.

Edit, living next door to a mini-Waitrose, that is.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 4, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Yet more Sad news as ever for the staff, it won't be the large big chain to go, for sure. I feel another place that's struggling, a fave of mine, is Cotswold Outdoor. I am not sure they handled the Pandemic or reopening very well. It no longer feels so good and appear to be having huge and endless sales.


Cotswold Outdoor are not particularly cheap. It may be that they suffer a similar problem to that which shut Jessops: people using their shops as showrooms before buying the products more cheaply online from other vendors. btw Cotswold Outdoor used to employ many of their staff on zero hours contracts, I don't know if they still do.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 4, 2021)

Price wise, they are similar to Ellis Brigham and Snow & Rock. There are many regular discounts at CO's for blue light workers, LA workers, NT members etc


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 4, 2021)

UrbaneFox said:


> John Lewis plans to build 10,000 rental homes
> 
> 
> The department store chain says it wants to address the UK's housing shortage and support communities.
> ...


Sounds like life in a particular kind of bubble to me, maybe they could launch their own dating app and on-site childcare centres and nobody would ever have to leave.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 4, 2021)

You might be confusing JL with Tesco's. I'm sure some of their bigger places have child care stuff


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 4, 2021)

UrbaneFox said:


> John Lewis plans to build 10,000 rental homes
> 
> 
> The department store chain says it wants to address the UK's housing shortage and support communities.
> ...



Boris Johnson is first move in.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 4, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Price wise, they are similar to Ellis Brigham and Snow & Rock. There are many regular discounts at CO's for blue light workers, LA workers, NT members etc



Their shop interiors are quite well designed too. Ellis Brigham and Snow & Rock seem a bit more aspirational, which might put Cotswold between them and on the cheaper side Decathlon, Trespass, the fugly clothing Hades that is Mountain Warehouse. The middle doesn't seem a promising place to be in retail at the moment. On the other hand, there could be temporary across-the-board gains thanks to staycationers.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 4, 2021)

My last visit to a cotswold I got the feeling it was a little run down and miserable, Sort of following on the heels of WHSmiths.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 5, 2021)

hash tag said:


> My last visit to a cotswold I got the feeling it was a little run down and miserable, Sort of following on the heels of WHSmiths.


Odd to recall how many years ago WH Smith's was emblematic of stolid respectable retail, like M&S but for magazines and stationery. Anytime I go in one now, usually in a railway terminus, it just leaves me hating the modern world more.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 5, 2021)

Smith's on stations are ok but the shops are deteriorating pretty badly.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 5, 2021)

Doodler said:


> Odd to recall how many years ago WH Smith's was emblematic of stolid respectable retail, like M&S but for magazines and stationery. Anytime I go in one now, usually in a railway terminus, it just leaves me hating the modern world more.


They (WHSmith) had/have a concession on the train platform I leave from normally.  Smallest, cheapest bottle of water was £2.99, and exploitative rip off.  I know these shops are normally run by a franchisee company, but it's their name over the door and still screws their reputation.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 5, 2021)

mx wcfc said:


> They (WHSmith) had/have a concession on the train platform I leave from normally.  Smallest, cheapest bottle of water was £2.99, and exploitative rip off.  I know these shops are normally run by a franchisee company, but it's their name over the door and still screws their reputation.


Pretty much anything which doesn't have a price printed on it, like a newspaper or book, is a ripoff in there.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 5, 2021)

Pre covid I remember them trying to give water away with newspapers


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 5, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Pre covid I remember them trying to give water away with newspapers



They usually have a bottle of water or a massive chocolate bar on offer.

Still not worth the visit.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 5, 2021)

mx wcfc said:


> They (WHSmith) had/have a concession on the train platform I leave from normally.  Smallest, cheapest bottle of water was £2.99, and exploitative rip off.  I know these shops are normally run by a franchisee company, but it's their name over the door and still screws their reputation.


i think its to do with crazy rents at stations
i read that in Freaknomics or one of those books, theres a chapter about why everything is so expensive at train stations


----------



## hash tag (Jul 5, 2021)

Train fares you say. Expensive? This way  "The UK has the most expensive train fares in Europe"


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 5, 2021)

ska invita said:


> i think its to do with crazy rents at stations
> i read that in Freaknomics or one of those books, theres a chapter about why everything is so expensive at train stations


I think it was the undercover economist by Tim Hartford as it refers to AMT coffee stalls which are apparently situated along the busiest path of foot traffic


----------



## ska invita (Jul 5, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> I think it was the undercover economist by Tim Hartford as it refers to AMT coffee stalls which are apparently situated along the busiest path of foot traffic


that rings a bell, yes was about coffee at stations


----------



## hash tag (Jul 8, 2021)

Doodler said:


> Cotswold Outdoor are not particularly cheap. It may be that they suffer a similar problem to that which shut Jessops: people using their shops as showrooms before buying the products more cheaply online from other vendors. btw Cotswold Outdoor used to employ many of their staff on zero hours contracts, I don't know if they still do.




Gutted. Have just found out my local Cotswold has just closed. No more sneaking of for a crafty purchase at lunchtime. That was the only 1 of 2 shops I would ever bother to visit.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 8, 2021)

Cotswold Outdoor, it's a shame as I liked that shop.  But too pricey, I bought several things from them over the years.  The last waterproof I tried on for size and offered to buy it at Internet price plus £20 all in cash, the declined my offer, I saved £60!


----------



## hash tag (Jul 8, 2021)

I couldn't/wouldn't do that. I would go without first.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 8, 2021)

Cant go without, wont pay through the nose


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 8, 2021)

It’s the mid range shops that have really plummeted in quality last few years, though even mountain warehouse used to be much better quality.

Now everywhere is primark or boohoo quality


----------



## hash tag (Jul 8, 2021)

I get the impression that M&S  have lost their way with clothes, but their foodie stuff is going very well.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 8, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I get the impression that M&S  have lost their way with clothes, but their foodie stuff is going very well.


I actually went to M&S a month or so ago and bought some new underpants. Their underwear is very good imho, much better than the branded stuff mrs mx gets me from TKMax for xmas.  
It is highly unlikely that I would buy any type of clothing there.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 8, 2021)

Marks is pants for clothes 

Gets coat.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 8, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Marks is pants for clothes
> 
> Gets coat.


not just any coat


----------



## hash tag (Jul 12, 2021)

Gone, killed by Tesco next door?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 14, 2021)

John Lewis shedding yet more jobs 
BBC News - John Lewis and Waitrose plan to cut 1,000 jobs








						John Lewis and Waitrose plan to cut 1,000 jobs
					

John Lewis and Waitrose want to make the cuts as part of a shake-up of store management.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Jul 31, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Does this mean we should have no connection with any person who had a long deceased relative who was a Nazi. Should this prevent me from owning a VW a Porsche or an Audi for example?
> Do we not care about recent racists, tax avoiders etc?





Orang Utan said:


> Yes


Two more for the list then ( both highlighted to me just today) ;








						Ikea founder Ingvar Kamprad's Nazi ties 'went deeper'
					

The founder of the Ikea furniture chain, Ingvar Kamprad, is facing further questions about his Nazi past following claims in a new book.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				











						German pizza giant Dr Oetker reveals Nazi-era past
					

The head of Dr Oetker - one of the world's biggest frozen pizza makers - has revealed the family firm's former links to Germany's Nazi party.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## fieryjack (Aug 2, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Gone, killed by Tesco next door?
> View attachment 278222


It's been a long slow death if that's the place in Earlsfield. Used to be really good but quality seemed to dip a few years ago, maybe to cope with diminished footfall


----------



## hash tag (Aug 2, 2021)

It was in Earlsfield.


----------



## Cerv (Aug 3, 2021)

mx wcfc said:


> They (WHSmith) had/have a concession on the train platform I leave from normally.  Smallest, cheapest bottle of water was £2.99, and exploitative rip off.  I know these shops are normally run by a franchisee company, but it's their name over the door and still screws their reputation.


realistically though do Smiths have a reputation left to screw? ask anyone about them and the first response will be that they're the rip off in train stations or rip off in hospital waiting rooms.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 4, 2021)

Can't see WH Smith lasting much longer outside of motorway services. 

 

 

 

 

Shit state of their carpets seems to be where that last account got their name from.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 4, 2021)

Why it still exists has been one of the puzzles of the century so far, though. Maybe it can just go on defying logic forever.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 4, 2021)

AFAIK, WHSmiths/Menzies control the distribution of newspapers/magazines throughout the country, and they also own many of their high street retail units. No amount of turning your nose up at half-price bars of Galaxy or £7 packets of Staedtler pencils is gonna change that.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 4, 2021)

Raheem said:


> Why it still exists has been one of the puzzles of the century so far, though. Maybe it can just go on defying logic forever.


massive laundering operation, I reckon


----------



## ska invita (Aug 4, 2021)

i wonder if they are making any money out of the post office thing.
If Smiths goes, so do post offices


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 4, 2021)

Pretty much the largest shop in my town is a Smiths, messy, disorganised shelves, half the lights not on, staff appalling bad at even pretending to give a shit. Yet it is always busy, never been in and found it empty, so there must be something there.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 4, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Pretty much the largest shop in my town is a Smiths, messy, disorganised shelves, half the lights not on, staff appalling bad at even pretending to give a shit. Yet it is always busy, never been in and found it empty, *so there must be something there.*


...a post office? my Smiths has a permanent queue to get in. To the post office.
and yeah its the same mess in there as you describe


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 4, 2021)

ska invita said:


> ...a post office? my Smiths has a permanent queue to get in. To the post office.
> and yeah its the same mess in there as you describe




No post office, there was one in Waterstones a couple of doors away, but that's now set up in its own shop.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 4, 2021)

When I was 10 Smiths was my favorite shop, I still harbour some customer loyalty fuck knows why. Although can't remember last time I went in there. On the railways, before the train arrives you've already accepted that you're going to get ripped off, it should say so on the ticket. So if you aint packed sandwiches, a drink , and a hip flask then Smiths it is.


----------



## miss direct (Aug 4, 2021)

I always look up the nearest Tesco/Boots and walk there. Would never pay wh Smith sandwich prices.


----------



## hash tag (Aug 4, 2021)

I think the only time I have seen a sarnie in Smith's is on motorway services. Smith's are usually a reliable source of magazines.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 21, 2021)

Forget shops: how Stockton on Tees ripped up the rule book to revive its high street
					

Stockton-on-Tees is leading a radical rethink of our urban centres, which is now even more urgent as Covid takes its toll




					www.theguardian.com
				




Decent article on Stockton


----------



## stavros (Aug 21, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Forget shops: how Stockton on Tees ripped up the rule book to revive its high street
> 
> 
> Stockton-on-Tees is leading a radical rethink of our urban centres, which is now even more urgent as Covid takes its toll
> ...


If McFly are playing there in September that could take the High Street back to its 1985 heyday.


----------



## BristolEcho (Aug 21, 2021)

stavros said:


> If McFly are playing there in September that could take the High Street back to its 1985 heyday.


Mcfly were late 90's weren't they?


----------



## hash tag (Aug 21, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> Forget shops: how Stockton on Tees ripped up the rule book to revive its high street
> 
> 
> Stockton-on-Tees is leading a radical rethink of our urban centres, which is now even more urgent as Covid takes its toll
> ...


Even the local book store has expanded and a big new library 😊


----------



## stavros (Aug 21, 2021)

BristolEcho said:


> Mcfly were late 90's weren't they?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 5, 2021)

Almost 50 shops a day disappear from High Streets
					

Britain's High Streets lost more than 8,700 stores in the first six months of 2021, research suggests.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Not a shocker really


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2021)

sad isn't it. We have to accept it and repurpose them I guess.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 5, 2021)

hash tag said:


> sad isn't it. We have to accept it and repurpose them I guess.


Turn them into luxury town flats for developers to botch up and sell to buy to let landlords for a nice profit?


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2021)

Pedestrian only green spaces, pubs, bars, pizzas n burgers


----------



## Aladdin (Sep 5, 2021)

Last month it was announced that Arnotts and Brown Thomas were to be sold by their Irish/Canadian Weston family...along with other retail chains they own..Selfridges etc.

Many shops have already gone. Debenhams and others. 

Most of the city centre where I live is empty shops.

But...outdoor markets are doing well and a new one has opened. So that's good.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 5, 2021)

We must keep a small selection of shops local for everyone, especially those with mobility issues and to keep car use down.


----------



## Tankus (Oct 3, 2021)

Coventry city  centre   ,  needs the specials  as  background  music  


 A hard  place  to  recover  from


----------



## ska invita (Oct 3, 2021)

Tankus said:


> Coventry city  centre   ,  needs the specials  as  background  music
> 
> 
> A hard  place  to  recover  from



This guy seems dodge to me

Aren't these the Covid is a hoax lot?




__





						“You will own nothing, and you will be happy” - The White Rose
					

What does it mean to own nothing and to be ordered to be happy? Who decides this, and what is behind this propaganda phrase? Rex van Schalkwyk gives a warning we should take seriously.  Chairman of the FMF Rule of Law Board of Advisors and a former judge of the Supreme Court of South Africa, Rex...



					thewhiterose.uk
				




Free market libertarian maybe?
Smells to me whatever.

But yeah, city centers broken


----------



## hash tag (Nov 3, 2021)

This just seems like madness. Instead of having shops we could well have pick up points instead 









						Home delivery boom becoming unmanageable in London, report warns
					

Online shoppers should change their habits to improve sustainability as the e-commerce boom is set to become unmanageable in London, a new report has warned.




					www.standard.co.uk
				




"The report has recommended that 90 per cent of Londoners should be within 250 metres of a universal pick-up or drop-off point by 2025"


----------



## cybershot (Nov 3, 2021)

I’d love pick up points. Since last Christmas I’ve moved house. No longer have a porch for delivery people to drop stuff in and getting stuff delivered to work is impossible as the courier drivers always get lost. So Christmas this year I’ve had to tell the family it comes from an actual shop or the retailer provides click and collect functionality as I’m not driving around the midlands to various courier depots to pick stuff up.

I’ve said for years online retailers should have to provide details of what courier they use before even getting to the checkout. so I know if there’s local shops I can easily divert the package too or if it’s an awful courier company. Just not even bother.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 3, 2021)

I shall try and keep my indifference to myself, were it not for the staff 








						Harrods £68m in red and faces strike by dozens of restaurant workers
					

Luxury department store Harrods made a loss last year due to pandemic lockdowns




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## hash tag (Nov 18, 2021)

No surprises here, but et more offices? House of Fraser: Oxford Street flagship store to close


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 18, 2021)

hash tag said:


> No surprises here, but et more offices? House of Fraser: Oxford Street flagship store to close



Blimey, that's a big one to go.


----------



## Cloo (Nov 18, 2021)

Well Fraser has been on its way out for a while.  Even before Covid the one near my office (Victoria) had become an odd dumping ground for Sports Direct surplus stock.


----------



## Cloo (Nov 18, 2021)

As I think I've mentioned before, local high streets might get something of a boost from COVID as people get more reliant on them - some attention is finally being paid to my local one, but it's funny how, however people complain about the shitty high street, when proposals are put forward for improvement people are all 'Oh but not that, oh but parking [always bloody parking], oh cars' and I do feel a bit 'Yes, if they are going to improve the street, things are going to change'. Council is planning a 'Town square', which is basically using existing layout better but people were immediately 'What are they going to knock down? That sound like they're going to pedestrianise it [they're not planning to], they can't do that'. 

Shopping malls are a really interesting case - some big developers are now literally saying they can't see them building any more in the UK in the foreseeable, which I find fascinating. I'm guessing the extension of Brent Cross shopping centre is probably off the cards. Most malls will remain, I reckon, but expect to start seeing more non-retail use in them - entertainment, offices, even possibly healthcare and civic stuff. UK is overstocked with malls, though not as insanely as the US.


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 18, 2021)

Cloo said:


> Shopping malls are a really interesting case - some big developers are now literally saying they can't see them building any more in the UK in the foreseeable, which I find fascinating. I'm guessing the extension of Brent Cross shopping centre is probably off the cards. Most malls will remain, I reckon, but expect to start seeing more non-retail use in them - entertainment, offices, even possibly healthcare and civic stuff. UK is overstocked with malls, though not as insanely as the US.


Yet bizarrely in Leeds they are building a new train station (and closing another nearby) in order to serve the White Rose shopping centre, which is a really dismal shitty 90s shopping mall (biggest name is M&S) that must be on the way out, especially as there is a massive shiny new one slap bang in the city centre about 200m from city station. It’ll be thirty years too late.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 18, 2022)

Nearly 135,000 retail jobs lost during pandemic - Retail Gazette
					

New research has found that almost 135,000 retail jobs have been lost during the Covid-19 pandemic.




					www.retailgazette.co.uk
				



GMB figures


----------



## Rob Ray (Feb 18, 2022)

I was wandering around Ipswich for the first time in a while the other day and even knowing the damage Covid had done was honestly a bit shocked at the decline. Loads of empties on top of the loss of big places like Debenhams and the Coop, mostly listed as "planning permission for residential development." Council seems to be giving up on finding new town centre business entirely.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 18, 2022)

There was a massive fuss about a large Tesco's being built down by the railway and many accused them of land blocking. I wondered what happened to that. Very pleased to see out of time records still going in Fore Street which is run by a lovely fella.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Nearly 135,000 retail jobs lost during pandemic - Retail Gazette
> 
> 
> New research has found that almost 135,000 retail jobs have been lost during the Covid-19 pandemic.
> ...











						More than 17,000 chain store shops closed last year
					

Figures reflect the rise of online shopping and the pandemic, but the rate of closures is slowing.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				













Chain stores i presume excludes independents, cafes, other high street businesses etc


----------



## Badgers (Feb 19, 2022)

Sad for the workers (again and again) but local to me there are a lot more independents opening up. Mostly food places but a lot of others. No new estate agents or charity shops.


----------



## Cloo (Feb 19, 2022)

Was on Oxford Street for first time in a while and quite startling to see dead run where both Debenhams and House of Fraser have gone.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Feb 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> More than 17,000 chain store shops closed last year
> 
> 
> Figures reflect the rise of online shopping and the pandemic, but the rate of closures is slowing.
> ...




Lot of them took opportunity to go full scab till as well


----------



## ska invita (Feb 19, 2022)




----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Feb 19, 2022)

Cloo said:


> As I think I've mentioned before, local high streets might get something of a boost from COVID as people get more reliant on them - some attention is finally being paid to my local one, but it's funny how, however people complain about the shitty high street, when proposals are put forward for improvement people are all 'Oh but not that, oh but parking [always bloody parking], oh cars' and I do feel a bit 'Yes, if they are going to improve the street, things are going to change'. Council is planning a 'Town square', which is basically using existing layout better but people were immediately 'What are they going to knock down? That sound like they're going to pedestrianise it [they're not planning to], they can't do that'.
> 
> Shopping malls are a really interesting case - some big developers are now literally saying they can't see them building any more in the UK in the foreseeable, which I find fascinating. I'm guessing the extension of Brent Cross shopping centre is probably off the cards. Most malls will remain, I reckon, but *expect to start seeing more non-retail use in them - entertainment, offices, even possibly healthcare and civic stuff. *UK is overstocked with malls, though not as insanely as the US.


I went through Manchester Arndale recently, which I don't do that often and noticed more food places in the main square. There is a dedicated food court in another wing of the mall with lots of fast food joints, and there have been a few other food places, like cookie stalls, Thornton's (now closed), pretzel place, Gregg's, dotted around, but it seems like they're now trying to make other parts of the mall into a slightly higher end food  court type place, more restaurant vibe, although even there there's a milkshake and burger bar, and more recently German style diner kebab place.

They revamped the square a few years ago. They moved two escalators and plonked a 'champagne bar' between them, which was laughable. I mean, a champagne bar, in a shopping mall? You might get away with something like that in Harvey Nichols or Selfridge's, but sipping champagne between two escalators, near Wilko, Bodyshop and Build a Bear, doesn't exactly scream luxury. Needless to say, it didn't last long. But that was seemingly the start of trying to reposition that part of the mall as being food and drink. 

And when I was passing through the other day, I noticed that on the level above that new not-the-food-court food zone, one of the retail units was now Laser Clinics offering laser treatments and injectables.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> More than 17,000 chain store shops closed last year
> 
> 
> Figures reflect the rise of online shopping and the pandemic, but the rate of closures is slowing.
> ...


Chains are all going in line of course. Surprised about fashion shops; I would really want to see something in the flesh, feel it and try it on before buying. 
If I remember rightly, there is a champagne bar in the very trendy shopping centre that is Westfield at Shepherds Bush.


----------



## weepiper (Feb 19, 2022)

HMV bucking the trend by opening a new store in Edinburgh.









						HMV set to return to Edinburgh’s Princes Street with new flagship store six years after closing
					

If you thought the vinyl revival was just another nostalgic fad, then look away now. HMV is set for a historic return to Edinburgh’s Princes Street nearly six years after the flagship store’s closure –  and the new focus will be on vinyl.




					www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com


----------



## Cloo (Feb 19, 2022)

Food and beverage were already increasing significantly before COVID - around 25% F&B had become standard in malls, up from single figures in 90s and earlier.


----------



## hash tag (Feb 19, 2022)

weepiper said:


> HMV bucking the trend by opening a new store in Edinburgh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yet the all original Oxford St store remains empty and has done so for years now 😟


----------



## hash tag (Feb 19, 2022)

Looking through the figures, the number of closures does not reflect the amount of retail space lost along with jobs. Near me, we have lost 3 large DIY places, along with loads of jobs. In their place is 1 much smaller one with much fewer staff. The shops have been flattened for flats, including many  "affordable" ones.


----------



## Elpenor (Feb 23, 2022)

DIY stores are less useful for generation rent I suppose.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 29, 2022)

Popped into House of Fraser ( previously Dickens & Jones ) in Epsom earlier. They were selling literally everything, even display cabinets and shelving. It was all terribly sad.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 30, 2022)

I went into our local shopping centre last week, the first time for two years, and was saddened by the number of empty shops, some of which had been there for at least a couple of decades.

The whole way of shopping has changed though, online is huge compared to two years ago. The only thing that has increased is the number of charity shops.


----------



## stavros (Mar 30, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> The whole way of shopping has changed though, online is huge compared to two years ago. The only thing that has increased is the number of charity shops.


And bookies?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Mar 30, 2022)

stavros said:


> And bookies?


Still there. No new ones I don't think.


----------



## clicker (Mar 30, 2022)

Im seeing a lot of barbers, hair salons, nail places etc...instead of 'shops'. Presumably smaller premises with lower rents and unable to be replaced online.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Mar 30, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Popped into House of Fraser ( previously Dickens & Jones ) in Epsom earlier. They were selling literally everything, even display cabinets and shelving. It was all terribly sad.


Crikey, it's shit when you're old enough to see a place change so much. I grew up round those parts. Being a child I remember the Ashley Centre as being kind of magical, especially the main stretch down past M&S (if it's still there of course) I remember Our Price being next to Waitrose, when smiths was John Menzies, although Smiths wasn't even still there last time I looked and Dickens and Jones. Spent many a Saturday afternoon being dragged round there by my mum and dad, bored out of my mind while they shopped. I even worked in the cafe upstairs in my teens. I'm surprised it lasted this long given the fate of other house of frasers. Must've been a sorry sight seeing shelves up for sale 🙁


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 30, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Popped into House of Fraser ( previously Dickens & Jones ) in Epsom earlier. They were selling literally everything, even display cabinets and shelving. It was all terribly sad.



In Worthing, the local developers who took over the former Debenhams building, that will remain retail at street level, but with flats above found it very strange when they got the keys...



> When Craig Developments entered the building, it was as if people just upped and left. Paul said that he could have easily opened it up again as a department store from what had been left.
> 
> He added: “Debenhams had literally locked the doors and left. Some of the rails even had clothes still on them, some of the mannequins were still dressed and the tills were still there. A poignant moment I remember was the Clarins counter which was left immaculately with the velvet cover over it.
> 
> All of that just made you realise that people worked here for decades and it was quite sad. We feel quite proud that we are going to save the building and bring some of the heritage back and be respectful to it, and someone’s got to save it, but it was still quite sad seeing the demise of a department store.”













						Take a look inside the old Debenhams building in Worthing
					

Work has begun to clear out Worthing’s former Debenhams store with a view to it being transformed into luxury flats and retail space.




					www.sussexexpress.co.uk


----------



## hash tag (Mar 30, 2022)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Crikey, it's shit when you're old enough to see a place change so much. I grew up round those parts. Being a child I remember the Ashley Centre as being kind of magical, especially the main stretch down past M&S (if it's still there of course) I remember Our Price being next to Waitrose, when smiths was John Menzies, although Smiths wasn't even still there last time I looked and Dickens and Jones. Spent many a Saturday afternoon being dragged round there by my mum and dad, bored out of my mind while they shopped. I even worked in the cafe upstairs in my teens. I'm surprised it lasted this long given the fate of other house of frasers. Must've been a sorry sight seeing shelves up for sale 🙁


M&S is still there. There was an HMV for a short while. There were two Waterstones, at either ends of the centre. There is still a Waterstones but now out on high st. 
The fate of the H if F building is uncertain.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 30, 2022)

hash tag said:


> M&S is still there. There was an HMV for a short while. There were two Waterstones, at either ends of the centre. There is still a Waterstones but now out on high st.
> The fate of the H if F building is uncertain.



We've been lucky having local developers taking over both the former Debenhams and the Beales department store sites fairly quickly, and moving forward on their plans to breath new life into the sites.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Mar 30, 2022)

hash tag said:


> M&S is still there. There was an HMV for a short while. There were two Waterstones, at either ends of the centre. There is still a Waterstones but now out on high st.
> The fate of the H if F building is uncertain.


Yeah I remember when it turned to HMV and when waterstones was up that end... It might've been called something else in the mid 90s when I worked in the clock tower cafe, which is long gone now. Cooking fry ups in a tiny kitchen for £3.50 an hour at 15 years old... Probably not legal but hey ho!


----------



## Cloo (Mar 30, 2022)

Investors are apparently getting quite keen on retail property again (and not in terms of changing use) seeing as it's cheap and I guess also they can clearly see who's got a good value proposition now, so that's a bit of a lift for the industry.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 30, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Investors are apparently getting quite keen on retail property again (and not in terms of changing use) seeing as it's cheap and I guess also they can clearly see who's got a good value proposition now, so that's a bit of a lift for the industry.



Wfh has the potential to revive so many high streets if it’s nurtured. Imagine being able to actually go to the local butchers or cafe (open 8-4) or the local market (open once a weekday 10-2) rather than having to piss about going into and out of town and spending all weekend catching up on your chores because of work.


----------



## lazythursday (Mar 30, 2022)

I think we're about to see a further downturn. Friend who runs a shop/deli (neighbourhood high st rather than town/city) has seen massive downturn in her takeover in last month, so much so that she is now expecting to close by the summer, after surviving all through the pandemic, and at times doing quite well from people working at home. She thinks it's due to the announcements about energy bills and the general vibe around cost of living crisis - people have massively reined in discretionary spending.


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## Cloo (Mar 30, 2022)

lazythursday said:


> I think we're about to see a further downturn. Friend who runs a shop/deli (neighbourhood high st rather than town/city) has seen massive downturn in her takeover in last month, so much so that she is now expecting to close by the summer, after surviving all through the pandemic, and at times doing quite well from people working at home. She thinks it's due to the announcements about energy bills and the general vibe around cost of living crisis - people have massively reined in discretionary spending.


Yeah, sadly the cost of living crisis is going to fuck any recovery right up. An awful lot of even quite well off households (considering mortgage/rent/childcare) will lose a lot of discretionary spend and of course a lot of households won't even be able to keep their heads above water.


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## ska invita (Mar 30, 2022)

lazythursday said:


> I think we're about to see a further downturn. Friend who runs a shop/deli (neighbourhood high st rather than town/city) has seen massive downturn in her takeover in last month, so much so that she is now expecting to close by the summer, after surviving all through the pandemic, and at times doing quite well from people working at home. She thinks it's due to the announcements about energy bills and the general vibe around cost of living crisis - people have massively reined in discretionary spending.


100 pc this....recession incoming surely...credit card debt has soared this year already



Cloo said:


> Investors are apparently getting quite keen on retail property again (and not in terms of changing use) seeing as it's cheap and I guess also they can clearly see who's got a good value proposition now, so that's a bit of a lift for the industry.


 what industry are you thinking of?


----------



## Cloo (Mar 31, 2022)

ska invita said:


> what industry are you thinking of?


Retail, in that there's some investment for it.  But yes,  recession's going to fuck it like everything else.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 31, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Retail, in that there's some investment for it.  But yes,  recession's going to fuck it like everything else.


...aah i didnt get your meaning as i thought the conversation was going along the lines it was non-retail people buying up these spaces


----------



## Rob Ray (Apr 2, 2022)

Even the Hilton is hitting rock bottom: Freedom Press co-opted by … the Hilton?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Apr 23, 2022)

Walking through my home town centre recently, which is more a precinct than a high street but same function. Pretty much everything with the shutters permanently down. Even the flats above most of them all appear to be derelict now.


----------



## Elpenor (May 6, 2022)

Last Night at McColls?









						McColl's convenience store chain on brink of collapse
					

The retailer said on Thursday that it was increasingly likely it would enter administration.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




A convenience store I’ve never actually shopped in. I can imagine though that for many it’s the only place they can get a pint of milk and a loaf of bread within walking distance?


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## BristolEcho (May 6, 2022)

They are so expensive so not a total surprise.


----------



## pogofish (May 6, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Last Night at McColls?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't know about south of the border but McColls going under in Scotland means that many communities/neighbourhoods will also lose their sole Post Office, pay-point for gas, electricity and council services at one stroke.  Especially in the more peripheral/poorer/remote places.

With Spar currently divesting itself of its Post Office counters - They have already closed a significant number and recently it was reported they are negotiating to get out of their contract with the PO and close the lot, this would seriously damage access to basic services in a great many places.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 6, 2022)

pogofish said:


> I don't know about south of the border but McColls going under in Scotland means that many communities/neighbourhoods will also lose their sole Post Office, pay-point for gas, electricity and council services at one stroke.  Especially in the more peripheral/poorer/remote places.



My local McColls is my nearest PO, I regularly use both the PO & shop.

I've just been in there, and found out they are due to be re-branded as a 'Morrisons Daily' convenience store in the next couple of weeks anyway, and it's a fairly busy place, so I reckon they will be saved, certainly the staff are confident.

Anyway, it's confirmed that Morrisons has made an improved offer to fully take over the business, and the petrol station/retailer 'EG Group', owned by TDR Capital and the billionaire Issa brothers, have expressed interest too, so fingers crossed.









						Morrisons pitches last-ditch rescue deal for ailing convenience retailer McColl’s
					

The supermarket giant has proposed a last-ditch deal that would avert McColl’s collapse into insolvency and preserve the majority of its stores and workforce, Sky News can reveal.




					news.sky.com


----------



## cybershot (May 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> My local McColls is my nearest PO, I regularly use both the PO & shop.
> 
> I've just been in there, and found out they are due to be re-branded as a 'Morrisons Daily' convenience store in the next couple of weeks anyway, and it's a fairly busy place, so I reckon they will be saved, certainly the staff are confident.
> 
> ...


Didn't Morrisons launch a very short lived express type stores recently?

ETA: Sort of. They sold it to private equity firm who surprise surprise put it out of business within a year.



> Around 70 stores were opened by the end of 2013, boosted by the purchase of 7 Jessops and 49 Blockbuster stores from administrators.[101] On 26 February 2013, a further six HMV stores were acquired from administrators.[102] The M Local chain was sold to a private equity group in 2015 and rebranded My Local, but entered administration itself less than a year later.[103]


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 6, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Didn't Morrisons launch a very short lived express type stores recently?



Yeah, they seemed to have messed up IIRC with the supply lines to smaller stores, but I guess after becoming wholesalers to McColls a few years ago they have sorted that out now.


----------



## hash tag (May 6, 2022)

It's crap that post offices are at the mercy of shops and not a branch in their own right. It remoter parts they are a vital part of the community as they are for people on benefits or pensions etc. I guess as the world moves on, in 20 years time, even the very elderly will be used to doing everything by card, phone, online etc. So demand for cash transactions will diminish.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 6, 2022)

McColl's has gone into administration now.


----------



## pogofish (May 6, 2022)

Yup, just saw that reported, so the last minute deals didn't go through. 

My local PO has just got a lot further away - out to the city sorting office at the back-end of an industrial estate several miles away.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 6, 2022)

pogofish said:


> Yup, just saw that reported, so the last minute deals didn't go through.
> 
> My local PO has just got a lot further away - out to the city sorting office at the back-end of an industrial estate several miles away.



I assume the administrators will keep them trading, whilst trying to put together a rescue, the EG Group is pushing ahead with a potential take-over.



> EG Group, which is controlled by the billionaire Issa brothers, could strike a deal to rescue the bulk of the company, Sky News reported. The Issa brothers also co-own Asda, the supermarket chain.
> EG Group declined to comment.
> The group owns thousands of petrol stations and convenience shops in the UK, Ireland, Europe, Australia and the US.











						McColl's collapse puts thousands of jobs at risk
					

The convenience chain falls into administration after failing to strike a deal with its banks.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 9, 2022)

This was the best possible outcome.



> *Supermarket group Morrisons has won a battle to rescue McColl's, the convenience store and newsagent chain, and taken on all 16,000 staff members.*
> 
> Morrisons beat a rival offer from EG Group, the petrol station empire, owned by the billionaire Issa brothers.
> 
> Morrisons will pay off McColl's £170m debts and take on its 1,160 shops and pension schemes, with 2,000 members.











						Morrisons rescues McColl's taking on all 16,000 staff
					

The supermarket chain has beaten a rival offer from EG Group which is owned by billionaire Issa brothers.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 11, 2022)

Turns out that alcohol sales at McColl's have been suspended, as I found out yesterday, because Morrisons have to apply for their own licenses, which I guess is for hundreds of stores and involves loads of different local authorities, how mad is that? 

Whilst some stores, in particular the smaller newsagent types, will be closed, which McColl's had already started to do, the larger convenience stores seem safe.

Apparently McColl's was already operating 270 'Morrisons Daily' outlets, with plans to convert 450 by November, 100 more than originally planned. Retail Gazette thinks that number will now increase further, because like-for-like sales are 20% higher in 'Morrisons Daily' branded stores compared to when they operated under the McColl's name.






						What next for McColl’s under Morrisons? - Retail Gazette
					

Morrisons fought off Asda owner EG Group to snap up McColl's, but what will it do with it's new acquisition?




					www.retailgazette.co.uk


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## Artaxerxes (May 26, 2022)

Seems like a weird strategy but you do you.


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## hash tag (May 26, 2022)

Thats interesting. Near me, a medium sized store converted to food only and it is exceptionally busy. Also nearby, is an M&S in a petrol station which also do well. It is well used for food only as well as fuel.


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## cupid_stunt (May 26, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Thats interesting. Near me, a medium sized store converted to food only and it is exceptionally busy. Also nearby, is an M&S in a petrol station which also do well. It is well used for food only as well as fuel.



Several stores are being converted to food only, and they have extended the partnership with BP until at least 2030, there's over 300 M&S stores on BP forecourts.


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## Artaxerxes (May 26, 2022)

Yeah MnS isn’t having issues with its food just it’s clothing.

It’s about the only place I can find dull casual clothes, everywhere else is aimed at a much younger cooler audience and has blaring music which I cannot fucking deal with when shopping


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## hash tag (May 26, 2022)

Mrs Tag would have agreed with you over clothing, though I gather it has been improving. Going into a large store, the clothing is all over the place, what with all the different "brands". They were also a bit of a one trick pony for clothing and food, selling nothing but own brands. I gather this is changing. 
I've never bought M&S clothing. 
There is doubt over their store in Oxford St which they want to redevelop but are struggling to get planning permission.


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## Elpenor (May 26, 2022)

A move towards out of town food stores given we are a car driven society and M&S has a fairly suburban appeal make sense 

I imagine food basket size at the city centre stores is constrained by location.


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## hash tag (May 27, 2022)

On the whole, food stores should be local and walkable for those that can't drive or choose not to.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 27, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> A move towards out of town food stores given we are a car driven society and M&S has a fairly suburban appeal make sense
> 
> I imagine food basket size at the city centre stores is constrained by location.




Nobody sane is going to do a full shop at Marks, it’s the food to go and slightly posh stuff that gets picked up either for a treat or on the go.

Out of town makes no sense for that market


----------



## Elpenor (May 27, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Nobody sane is going to do a full shop at Marks, it’s the food to go and slightly posh stuff that gets picked up either for a treat or on the go.
> 
> Out of town makes no sense for that market


I saw quite a lot of people doing a trolley shop in the stores I used to go which were largely suburban. 



hash tag said:


> On the whole, food stores should be local and walkable for those that can't drive or choose not to.


Yes I agree - but perhaps M&S think they are an exception


----------



## 8ball (May 27, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Nobody sane is going to do a full shop at Marks, it’s the food to go and slightly posh stuff that gets picked up either for a treat or on the go.
> 
> Out of town makes no sense for that market



There’s an out of town one near me that is hugely popular.  I think people go to pick up treats and a few other bits when they happen to be shopping at the other places on the retail park.


----------



## 8ball (May 27, 2022)

hash tag said:


> On the whole, food stores should be local and walkable for those that can't drive or choose not to.



Def agree with the “should” bit.


----------



## hash tag (May 27, 2022)

Also, what about carers who have to shop for people. Their time is pushed to the limits as it is without having to traipse around for miles shopping.


----------



## cybershot (May 28, 2022)

Rich people moved out of cities. Marks and spencer know their audience.


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 31, 2022)

Department store 15:17 in liquidation
					

Department store start-up 15:17 has gone into liquidation, two years after it was launched.




					www.drapersonline.com
				




That's a bugger for Worthing's town centre, as they were the largest retail outlet that moved into the former Beales department store site. 



> Department store start-up 15:17 launched in 2019, snapping up a former BHS site to open its first store in Ayr, on the south-west coast of Scotland. In November 2020, it opened a 15:17 in a former Topshop store in Cardiff, followed by a third store on a site previously occupied by Beales in Worthing, Sussex, which opened in December 2020.
> 
> In March 2021, 15:17 struck further deals to open stores in former Debenhams, House of Fraser and Topshop sites. These stores have all since closed.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 27, 2022)

not high street, but building firms




__





						archive.ph
					





					archive.ph
				




piece in the FT - doesnt sound good at all

"More than 3,400 smaller UK construction businesses went into administration in the year to April — the highest number since the financial crisis. In April alone, almost 400 went bust, representing a near 50 per cent increase compared with January 2020, before the pandemic, according to the latest Office for National Statistics figures. Bankruptcies in construction are outstripping those in every other sector in the UK."

worth reading the detail rather than me C&Ping it


----------



## Cloo (Jun 27, 2022)

Out of town has held up very well over the last few years,  somewhat to people's surprise. It's the free parking that helps a lot, plus these days they usually have somewhere to sit and have a coffee, so it doesn't surprise me if M&S are looking to that model.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2022)

ska invita said:


> not high street, but building firms
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a number of mates in the trades, and they are certainly suffering from the constantly increasing prices for materials.


----------



## sparkybird (Jun 27, 2022)

I know London is a different planet but everyone I know here is swamped with work, less Eastern European workers around too.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 27, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I have a number of mates in the trades, and they are certainly suffering from the constantly increasing prices for materials.


dont these prices just get passed on to consumers thought?


----------



## ska invita (Jun 27, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I have a number of mates in the trades, and they are certainly suffering from the constantly increasing prices for materials.



London is not the difference - the article makes the point that this is despite a boom in work


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 27, 2022)

ska invita said:


> London is not the difference - the article makes the point that this is despite a boom in work




Weird one, I am seeing so many builders and renovations around here.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2022)

ska invita said:


> dont these prices just get passed on to consumers thought?



The problem is how much materials go up between issuing a quote, and ordering the materials or delivery if there's some wait due to shortages, some things are literally going up every week, they have had to change to issuing estimates and highlighting the possible increase in prices, then customers start getting arsey about it.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 27, 2022)

"inflationary pressures are hitting smaller builders the hardest as they do not always have visibility of demand, the cash to buy supplies in advance, the room to store them or the ability to pass on costs to customers, especially when fixed price contracts have already been agreed. Changes to accounting and VAT rules and rising insurance costs have also weighed on the sector."


----------



## hash tag (Jun 27, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Out of town has held up very well over the last few years,  somewhat to people's surprise. It's the free parking that helps a lot, plus these days they usually have somewhere to sit and have a coffee, so it doesn't surprise me if M&S are looking to that model.


Recreating the high street in an out of town shopping centre.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 27, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The problem is how much materials go up between issuing a quote, and ordering the materials or delivery if there's some wait due to shortages, some things are literally going up every week, they have had to change to issuing estimates and highlighting the possible increase in prices, then customers start getting arsey about it.



A friend of ours is currently in discussions with a builder who’s quote has more than doubled from the original half way through the job. Thing is, most of the materials are already on site, so it does seem like the builder is taking the piss.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> A friend of ours is currently in discussions with a builder who’s quote has more than doubled from the original half way through the job. Thing is, most of the materials are already on site, so it *does seem like the builder is taking the piss.*



Does sound like it, in that case.


----------



## xenon (Jun 27, 2022)

Never seen them live. Not sure I would for 300 quid. Doesn't get played often but I do like most of their albums. Actually I was listening to the Spaghetti Incident again recently.

Them / Slash, and Zak Wild make me wish I had a Les Paul.


----------



## xenon (Jun 27, 2022)

Ha totally wrong thread.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 27, 2022)

xenon said:


> Ha totally wrong thread.


 For a moment you totally confused me.


----------



## xenon (Jun 27, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Nobody sane is going to do a full shop at Marks, it’s the food to go and slightly posh stuff that gets picked up either for a treat or on the go.
> 
> Out of town makes no sense for that market



Totally. OK it's my fault I wasn't a regular. Especially now working from home but I'd use the M&S in Bristol city centre occasionly, just for that. The posh ready meals etc.


----------



## stavros (Jun 27, 2022)

xenon said:


> Never seen them live. Not sure I would for 300 quid. Doesn't get played often but I do like most of their albums. Actually I was listening to the Spaghetti Incident again recently.
> 
> Them / Slash, and Zak Wild make me wish I had a Les Paul.


I'm imagining a high street shop that sells both flowers and firearms.


----------



## pbsmooth (Jun 27, 2022)

I walked down Oxford Street for the first time in a few years probably and christ it was depressing. I realise it's probably never been as glamorous or exciting as it seems when you're younger but so many empty spots now, full of the infamous tourist tat shops and "candy" stores, and even the people wandering around seemed a bit grim. Dead on its arse and can't imagine the decent shops that have stayed will want to if it doesn't improve quickly.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 16, 2022)

I gather that online retailers are starting to charge for returns which will surely deter people from speculative and over ordering on line which may in turn encourage them to return to the high street.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 16, 2022)

hash tag said:


> I gather that online retailers are starting to charge for returns which will surely deter people from speculative and over ordering on line which may in turn encourage them to return to the high street.



I get the feeling that they're just dealing with the more extreme piss-takers at this stage.

I mostly only order clothes online when it is something I know I won't have send back (copies of something I already have, but in a different colour etc.).


----------



## cybershot (Jul 16, 2022)

hash tag said:


> I gather that online retailers are starting to charge for returns which will surely deter people from speculative and over ordering on line which may in turn encourage them to return to the high street.


Who is charging for returns?

ETA: ah boohoo


----------



## hash tag (Jul 17, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> I walked down Oxford Street for the first time in a few years probably and christ it was depressing. I realise it's probably never been as glamorous or exciting as it seems when you're younger but so many empty spots now, full of the infamous tourist tat shops and "candy" stores, and even the people wandering around seemed a bit grim. Dead on its arse and can't imagine the decent shops that have stayed will want to if it doesn't improve quickly.


Oxford St is certainly taking a tumble. Marks are looking to demolish their flagship store with a view to building lots of office and or flats above. There is still no HMV on Oxford St, which was home to its original shop. House of Fraser and Deb's both now gone?  I now read John Lewis are looking to rent out their upper 2 floors. London’s Oxford Street: from retail heaven to candy store hell


----------



## hash tag (Sep 4, 2022)

If York with it's hoards of tourists struggles, what hope everywhere else? 








						‘This is a perfect storm’: York’s historic shops on brink as costs bite
					

Soaring energy costs and flagging consumer confidence herald a hard winter for small business owners in the English cathedral city




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## hash tag (Nov 9, 2022)

This sort of belongs here. I went in here a year or two back to shop for a sofa. Such an odd place. No sales assistants as such and I don't think they were even able to take an order from you in store yet alone pay for it. Everything had to be done on line. 
BBC News - Made.com goes bust with up to 500 jobs lost








						Made.com goes bust with up to 500 jobs lost
					

The firm, which enjoyed soaring sales during Covid lockdowns, hit problems as households cut back.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## pbsmooth (Nov 9, 2022)

sounds like it was badly run if they have 12,000 unfulfilled orders at the point of going bust.


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## marty21 (Nov 9, 2022)

hash tag said:


> This sort of belongs here. I went in here a year or two back to shop for a sofa. Such an odd place. No sales assistants as such and I don't think they were even able to take an order from you in store yet alone pay for it. Everything had to be done on line.
> BBC News - Made.com goes bust with up to 500 jobs lost
> 
> 
> ...


I think i have bought maybe 6 sofas over my life - never ordered one on-line - I go to a shop, sit on it , and then order it - I never got how Made.com was worth so much when it floated last year ? nearly a billion quid?


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## pinkmonkey (Nov 9, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> I walked down Oxford Street for the first time in a few years probably and christ it was depressing. I realise it's probably never been as glamorous or exciting as it seems when you're younger but so many empty spots now, full of the infamous tourist tat shops and "candy" stores, and even the people wandering around seemed a bit grim. Dead on its arse and can't imagine the decent shops that have stayed will want to if it doesn't improve quickly.


I went to London in September, first time in Oxford St since pre pandemic and I got a shock. Big stores boarded up, money laundering tat shops galore and a vast amount of rough sleepers. It felt seedy and unsafe. Went into Soho to go to some sewing shops and to a seminar in a hotel and it was as if these areas had swapped places, Soho was thriving with small independants and seemed a lot cleaner and less sketchy in contrast.  I think the greedy landlords of Oxford St got what they deserved TBH they drove rents up beyond what most businesses could bear. Now people shop the chainstores online and these businesses aren't prepared to pay these silly rents. Landlords have fucked up London.


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## pinkmonkey (Nov 9, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I have a number of mates in the trades, and they are certainly suffering from the constantly increasing prices for materials.


Same with friends who work in boat building, steel price in particular. Meaning people need welding done and can't afford the steel plate and have to scrap the boat.  It's double what it used to be. We had our boat partially refitted when I won some PPI, in 2019, I don't think I'd be able to afford the wood, now.


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## cybershot (Nov 9, 2022)

hash tag said:


> This sort of belongs here. I went in here a year or two back to shop for a sofa. Such an odd place. No sales assistants as such and I don't think they were even able to take an order from you in store yet alone pay for it. Everything had to be done on line.
> BBC News - Made.com goes bust with up to 500 jobs lost
> 
> 
> ...


I hard nothing but complaints from people I did know that ordered from them. Massive delays, wrong items, totally wrong colour etc.

Probably no surprise, they sounded a shower of shit.


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## cupid_stunt (Dec 1, 2022)

HSBC is closing another 114 branches next year, more than a quarter of its network.  









						Full list of HSBC closures: is your local branch on it?
					

HSBC is to shut a further 114 branches – more than a quarter of its network. Here is the list of sites to close




					www.theguardian.com


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## PursuedByBears (Dec 1, 2022)

That includes my parents branch (Coalville, NW Leicestershire). There's barely any town centre left there as it is.


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2022)

I'm reading Joules have been taken over by Next. I guess some places will still close, som jobs still lost.


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