# Pete Doherty: the artist



## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

He is an ace songwriter, enchanting performer, and other era poet in the spirit of the romantics. A celebrant of a keen sense of Englishness, and purveyor of a sound that puts the squalor and poetry back into rock 'n roll, Pete could be king of England, as it says on his new site, he has whatever it takes, in spades.

 Forget the tabloids. His music has changed my life and saved many others. He is definitely very mixed up and on a self-destruct mission, but if you omit the bile and concentrate on the music and read his journals from the books of Albion, you'll get the picture. Peace.


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## Thora_v1 (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Pete could be king of England, as it says on his new site, he has whatever it takes, in spades.


Mmm, unlikely though seeing as he spends his time hanging round grubby squats in East London smoking crack.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

I was talking about the potential Thora, u know what i mean.....x

And here is an example of the similarity of his poetry to Robbie Burns, whose festival pete read at in Edinburgh this year, not forgeting that Peter was invited to Russia at the age of 16 as a young English poet, with the British Council. read the excerpts below:

 Robert Burns

The Rights of Women (excerpt)

While Europe's eye is fix'd on mighty things,

The fate of Empires and the fall of Kings;

While quacks of State must each produce his plan,

And even children lisp the Rights of Man;

Amid this mighty fuss just let me mention,

The Rights of Woman merit some attention.

First, in the Sexes' intermix'd connection,

One sacred Right of Woman is, protection.

The tender flower that lifts its head, elate,

Helpless, must fall before the blasts of Fate,

Sunk on the earth, defac'd its lovely form,

Unless your shelter ward th' impending storm.



Pete Doherty

Ask A Stupid Question (excerpt)

Someone on or above the earth, tell me why on

earth, does she beg for love at the feet of men

who snatch hers from her, selling it on to themselves

at a profit that can't possibly reflect its worth

This always ungentle robbery, is not a plot of lust,

because she is very conscious of her select for lovers,

particularly in relation to her gains, to her own

sexual harvest


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## districtline (Sep 4, 2005)

yeah, he was definitely the king at live 8.


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## maldwyn (Sep 4, 2005)

He’s a joke, an embarrassment.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 4, 2005)

When she sang about angels

She looked at the sky

Anybody else, anybody else, but I let it go by

When she sang about the fields

She raised up her arm

As if she was pushing back the cotton on some Midwestern farm

When she sang about a boy

Kurt Cobain

I thought what a shame it wasn't about

Tom Verlaine

When she sang about angels

She looked at the sky

Anybody else, anybody else, but I let it go by

Then she threw some names

Like she always did

She threw some names, she dropped some names

like I used to when I was a kid

When she sang about angels

She looked at the sky

Anybody else, anybody else, but I let it go by

I let it go by

I let it go by


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## Jayshat (Sep 4, 2005)

Another posh boy does 'bad'? Isn't he a well educated, middle class boy? Yawn...

Why does he act like such a tit then...A tortured soul? He would be hanging around 'that' woman.


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## cyberfairy (Sep 4, 2005)

if you've ever been out with a junkie, you wouldn't find it all so romantic


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## fishfingerer (Sep 4, 2005)

The above is _not_ by Pete Doherty.


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## Thora_v1 (Sep 4, 2005)

maldwyn said:
			
		

> He’s a joke, an embarrassment.


I think it's just sad - he is talented (though not some kind of messiah), but he's been reduced to junkie tabloid fodder.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

cyberfairy said:
			
		

> if you've ever been out with a junkie, you wouldn't find it all so romantic



I HAVE been out with a junkie, who was a crack addict. And one of my best friends, who I wasn't involved with but lived with for 6 months has been on heroin for 17 years, and no it is not romantic.

I am asking you to isolate the bile and the flotsam that surrounds Pete - scratch under the surface ant you have the most talented chap of his generation standing before you.


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## YouSir (Sep 4, 2005)

Jayshat said:
			
		

> Another posh boy does 'bad'? Isn't he a well educated, middle class boy? Yawn...
> 
> Why does he act like such a tit then...A tortured soul? He would be hanging around 'that' woman.



What does his class have to do with anything?

He makes good music, certainly wouldn't say it's changed my life or anything, but it's brought me some small measure of happiness and beyond that what really matters? His personality, his lifestyle, whether or not he's a twat, for a musician the only important factor is the quality of their work. 

Fans and critics alike seem to be too caught up in the sensationalism of his nihilistic self destruction.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 4, 2005)

> I am asking you to isolate the bile and the flotsam that surrounds Pete - scratch under the surface ant you have the most talented chap of his generation standing before you.


If that isn't a savage indictment of his generation I don't know what is.


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## nino_savatte (Sep 4, 2005)

Pete Doherty......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

nino_savatte said:
			
		

> Pete Doherty......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!



all i am saying is, don't believe the tabloid crap. 

Instead, listen to Up the Bracket, or For Lovers, the song for which he got an Ivor Novello nomination. I swear to you, For Lovers is on a par with Imagine and it just highlights his potential again and again.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> I swear to you, For Lovers is on a par with Imagine




God, I know it's a bit poor but that's a little harsh.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
			
		

> God, I know it's a bit poor but that's a little harsh.



have you heard it? don't waste my time if ur gonna concentrate merely on fickle tabloid nonsense.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 4, 2005)

Yes thanks.


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## Iam (Sep 4, 2005)

Toss.


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## nino_savatte (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> all i am saying is, don't believe the tabloid crap.
> 
> Instead, listen to Up the Bracket, or For Lovers, the song for which he got an Ivor Novello nomination. I swear to you, For Lovers is on a par with Imagine and it just highlights his potential again and again.



I'm not referring of the tabloid crap that one gets. I just don't see anything truly remarkable in the erratic Mr Doherty.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

nino_savatte said:
			
		

> I'm not referring of the tabloid crap that one gets. I just don't see anything truly remarkable in the erratic Mr Doherty.



*stunned*


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## Balbi (Sep 4, 2005)

fishfingerer said:
			
		

> If that isn't a savage indictment of his generation I don't know what is.



welcome to the 21st century, motto: you may not get killed


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> welcome to the 21st century, motto: you may not get killed



these have to be exposed to Up the Bracket - no wonder Mick Jones produced it - aqnd as if Mick wouldn't be able to spot the genius collaborations between pete and carl barat. That album blows my sox off every fucking time!!!!


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## poului (Sep 4, 2005)

*86hy8y98j9j*

Would Elton John be queen?


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## siarc (Sep 4, 2005)

as a postmodern media whore cum artiste, he's no paris hilton

this public school sixth former junkie pathos crap managing to convince people he's some latter day baudelaire, is quite impressive


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## poului (Sep 4, 2005)

*tryf5t7f655uy*

viva Pete Doherty, the "ghetto superstar".


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## Soreenkid (Sep 4, 2005)

I don't think any of him, one way or another. 

just a kid with a guitar, who took drugs - whoopy shit.


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## Cid (Sep 4, 2005)

Pretentious arts student junkie type in GCSE standard poetry shock!

There's a headline for you...


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## silentNate (Sep 4, 2005)

I hope he gets DVT's in both arms and they drop off 
Never been impressed by Pete Doherty and this eulogising of another stupid junkie throwing his life away on drugs turns my stomach


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## fishfingerer (Sep 4, 2005)

I could have put my head in a bucketful of porridge
And moaned about the hospital parking scheme
I would have saved 14 pound 
That I just splashed out on your 2nd album
For that's what it's akin to
And furthermore
You've got a shit arm and that's a bad tattoo
If you're going to quote from the book of revelation
Don't keep calling it the book of revelations
There's no 's'
It's the book of revelation


Now that's poetry.


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## cyberfairy (Sep 4, 2005)

fishfingerer said:
			
		

> I could have put my head in a bucketful of porridge
> And moaned about the hospital parking scheme
> I would have saved 14 pound
> That I just splashed out on your 2nd album
> ...



ooh, that was beautiful
 I'm a supermodel and think i'm in love with your edgy charm...got any ketamine?


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## bouncer_the_dog (Sep 4, 2005)

I find PD pretentious and annoying. He talks a load of made up rubbish about albion. He sets a bad example to his fans (who he treats with contempt) by glamourising smack. And he's totally unproffesional. No wonder the tabloids love him. I can't see why anyone would want to be a pete doherty fan.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

check this interview - it's very good : )

http://www.repeatfanzine.co.uk/interviews/pete Doherty.htm


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## cyberfairy (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> I HAVE been out with a junkie, who was a crack addict. And one of my best friends, who I wasn't involved with but lived with for 6 months has been on heroin for 17 years, and no it is not romantic.
> 
> I am asking you to isolate the bile and the flotsam that surrounds Pete - scratch under the surface ant you have the most talented chap of his generation standing before you.


he can't even stand up! scratch him, i'de just get hep b...


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

cyberfairy said:
			
		

> he can't even stand up! scratch him, i'de just get hep b...



heheh.

He is a genius, even in a befuddled state, he's still got it. I jus hope that one day he comes to his senses.


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## cyberfairy (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> heheh.
> 
> He is a genius, even in a befuddled state, he's still got it. I jus hope that one day he comes to his senses.


doubt he'll be in the NME as much if that happens...it's that car crash thing when talent eclipsed by tabloid coverage-I think Courtney Love a wonderful musician but that isn't what she's known for anymore...


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## HarrisonSlade (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Forget the tabloids. His music has changed my life


You been getting into smack lately then?


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

HarrisonSlade said:
			
		

> You been getting into smack lately then?



His music, not his substance abuse. and no I'd never take drugs jus cos a singer does.......x


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## silentNate (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> His music, not his substance abuse. and no I'd never take drugs jus cos a singer does.......x


 So your not even a real fan then cheesypoof?


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## fishfingerer (Sep 4, 2005)

cyberfairy said:
			
		

> ooh, that was beautiful
> I'm a supermodel and think i'm in love with your edgy charm...got any ketamine?


Tis a Half Man Half Biscuit song which refers to this:







...and words of The Libertines' What A Waster single - "When she wakes up in the morning, she writes down all her dreams, reads like the Book of Revelations, or the Beano or the unabridged Ulysses."


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

silentNate said:
			
		

> So your not even a real fan then cheesypoof?



shurrup. John lennon took heroin and acted like a tosser during his 'lost' year in 1975 and no one bangs on about that, do they? The problem for me is that a lot of ignorant people concentrate on merely the tabloid tattle circus surrpounding pete and NOT his music.


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## rocketman (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> His music, not his substance abuse. and no I'd never take drugs jus cos a singer does.......x



Tell you what thougth Cheesy, you must have the best connection in the world, judging from your possibly apocryphal 'experience'.
Cheesy Acid 

Doherty is a faintly talented young man who suffers far too much hype, he's just not quite good enough to justify that hype, and it's such a waste to spend pointless time eulogising a junkie of his ilk. I mean - don't get me wrong - there have been some splendid but addicted artists in the world, but they 
1/ TUrn up for gigs
2/ Do great gigs
3/ Write great songs
Sure there's an artistic tradition of substance abuse, but this doesn't mean PD qualifies, IMHO.

You music press people should go find some more talented abusers, he's like so old hat.

In any case, he's got a chance of recovery if he gets no attention.


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## zenie (Sep 4, 2005)

I think in a few years PD will have either died and so become a 'hero' in the nations eyes thus over glamourising all hs works and dying a 'genius' or he will just be forgotten and be living in a squat somewhere.

I mean what would he be famous for if it wasn't his blatant and idiotic use of drugs?

If he hadn't been chucked out of The Libertines for being off his face all the time would they have just turned into 'another rock band'?

Kate Moss wants to be forever young and trendy so she goes out with the most controversial man in music at the moment.

Let us not forget she has a daughter and I would hate to think that she allows PD around her child. I know I wouldn't.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

rocketman said:
			
		

> Tell you what thougth Cheesy, you must have the best connection in the world, judging from your possibly apocryphal 'experience'.
> Cheesy Acid
> 
> Doherty is a faintly talented young man who suffers far too much hype, he's just not quite good enough to justify that hype, and it's such a waste to spend pointless time eulogising a junkie of his ilk. I mean - don't get me wrong - there have been some splendid but addicted artists in the world, but they
> ...



Regarding your blatant lack of sensitivity about my acid experience,- it is not  apocryphal at all - why the hell would it be when i have talked OPENLY about the experience, u moron?

I agree with *some* of your points but i'm honestly only interested in his music, and poetry - that's it.


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## trashpony (Sep 4, 2005)

zenie said:
			
		

> Let us not forget she has a daughter and I would hate to think that she allows PD around her child. I know I wouldn't.



I find it pretty disturbing that famous people never get social services on their back when they raise their kids in a dubious fashion. If she were on benefits, the kid probably would have been taken into care by now


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## fuBganger (Sep 4, 2005)

poului said:
			
		

> viva Pete Doherty, the "ghetto superstar".



Haha. I read in one of my trashy ladies magazines that he thinks he's an Irish working class hero. 

Oh how I laughed.


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## cyberfairy (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> heheh.
> 
> He is a genius, even in a befuddled state, he's still got it. I jus hope that one day he comes to his senses.


i have tried to like his music, bought libertines album and listened to babyshambles but found it music that evaporates on reaching ears...i review bands and have seen others with such star quality and tunes that will never make it as others hog all the limelight...however we all have different tastes and thank god for that and it is nice to have a singer not banging on about their microbiotic eating habits etc and being a bit interesting, however spuriously so...


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

The song 'for lovers' is genius.


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## Lisarocket (Sep 4, 2005)

*To Cheesypoof*

Are you really seduced by this pseudo junkie act that Doherty puts on. He may be a junkie or he may be not... he is the only one who knows. It all looks a bit contrived for my liking. The press love it but i feel sorry for the fans really. They have the dedication to turn up to gigs and support Doherty, but he can't be arsed really. I stood outside the Monarch one night leafleting for a gig and watched the gathering throng of young Petealikes waiting for him expectantly....he didn't turn up then. I tried to tell the kids he may not turn up but they wouldn't hear a wrong word about their hero Pete. Some of them were so upset they left crying....
I saw Babyshambles at Wireless and also saw loads of disappointed fans. I was watching out of interest really. I didn't see genius. I saw a selfish fucker who will be losing his record deal soon because when he did turn up 45 minutes late he turned in a less than average performance, was pissed (not smacked up) and slurred his way through about 5 songs having to be reminded what songs to do by the rest of the band...
As for the fucking appaling performance he put in at Live 8. If i was Elton i would have roasted his balls for being that crap on such an important day.

You can only put in so many crap performances or not turn up at all before people start realising your not worth the effort....

As someone succinctly put earlier in the thread. It's also not genius it's GCSE poetry.....


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## nino_savatte (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> *stunned*



Pourquoi?


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

nino_savatte said:
			
		

> I'm not referring of the tabloid crap that one gets. I just don't see anything truly remarkable in the erratic Mr Doherty.



the fact that you can't see his talent is what stuns me. It is all there in his melodies - it screams out in front of you. Listen to his music - if you already have

what is wrong with you nino???? Honestly!!


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## Lisarocket (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> the fact that you can't see his talent is what stuns me. It is all there in his melodies - it screams out in front of you. Listen to his music - if you already have
> 
> what is wrong with you nino???? Honestly!!



......and what's wrong with everyone else's opinion on this thread too
 

You seem to be in a minority of one there cheeseypoof.....


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## rocketman (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Regarding your blatant lack of sensitivity about my acid experience,- it is not  apocryphal at all - why the hell would it be when i have talked OPENLY about the experience, u moron?
> 
> I agree with *some* of your points but i'm honestly only interested in his music, and poetry - that's it.



Hi there. 
Just want to say I did say "possibly apocryphal". I mean - sure, your drug experience could be genuine, but the reasons for that reaction (I'm told by people who know) had NOTHING MUCH TO DO WITH THE DRUG!
Your reaction was not standard. So, the story is either apocryphal or a burden you must bear with which I am sorry you have been cursed.

Also - so are you seeing Pete Doherty the man, or Pete Doherty, the little dancing entertainment puppet?

He's not all that, you know. He just isn't. He wrote his best poetry before the age of 15, and is basically just a public school bloke bought up with high expectations who is having a hard time dealing with the reality in which he finds himself.

He is marginally more talented than Kate Moss, I'll grant you.

But he has to change his world before he changes ours.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> the fact that you can't see his talent is what stuns me. It is all there in his melodies - it screams out in front of you. Listen to his music - if you already have
> 
> what is wrong with you nino???? Honestly!!



You're getting silly now. Plenty of people have heard his music and think he's shit. Believe me, it's very, very easily done.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 4, 2005)

Sorry cheesy, but he's completely fucken rubbish. End of. I thought this thread was a joke. Mind you, I used to think Morrissey was good. Wrong there.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

rocketman said:
			
		

> Hi there.
> Just want to say I did say "possibly apocryphal". I mean - sure, your drug experience could be genuine, but the reasons for that reaction (I'm told by people who know) had NOTHING MUCH TO DO WITH THE DRUG!
> Your reaction was not standard. So, the story is either apocryphal or a burden you must bear with which I am sorry you have been cursed.
> 
> ...



Sorry but i trust the judgment of Mick Jones way before i trust any of yours.


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## rocketman (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Sorry but i trust the judgment of Mick Jones way before i trust any of yours.



And what did he say? 
And apart from his being a little more well-known than you assume I may be, do you know him? If you do, fine - what did he say? If you don't, then what is the difference between his judgement and mine?
Is it because of any presumed assumption on your part? And what is your genuine judgement?
It's not illogical to assume you are seeking a little feedback to support or disprove your thoughts, or you would be less likely to post this thread in the first place.
I want to ask for answers on a postcard, but most of the answers I write need a particularly large cardm so that would be dismissive and unfair.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

rocketman said:
			
		

> And what did he say?
> And apart from his being a little more well-known than you assume I may be, do you know him? If you do, fine - what did he say? If you don't, then what is the difference between his judgement and mine?
> Is it because of any presumed assumption on your part? And what is your genuine judgement?
> It's not illogical to assume you are seeking a little feedback to support or disprove your thoughts, or you would be less likely to post this thread in the first place.
> I want to ask for answers on a postcard, but most of the answers I write need a particularly large cardm so that would be dismissive and unfair.



Mick Jones is the greatest producer of modern times, and one of the greatest music maestros of last century. The minute he heard the libertines music, he spotted the special dynamic between pete and carl, and likened it to either lennon and mccartney, jagger and richards, or himself and strummer.

It is all there in plain black and white in the music of up the bracket and the second album, there for you. I dont need to explain this - The Libertines, and Pete Doherty's musical talent is a generational thing. Believe me.


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## rocketman (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Mick Jones is the greatest producer of modern times, and one of the greatest music maestros of last century. The minute he heard the libertines music, he spotted the special dynamic between pete and carl, and likened it to either lennon and mccartney, jagger and richards, or himself and strummer.
> 
> It is all there in plain black and white in the music of up the bracket and the second album, there for you. I dont need to explain this - The Libertines, and Pete Doherty's musical talent is a generational thing. Believe me.



You mean he's on the record sleeve? Please clarify.
Do you mean the guy from Foreigner? Do you listen to that band too?
Honest. Doherty isn't the man. He is A man. There will be better generational-inspiring artists.
I like all kinds of music, but from where I live I am a bit of a fan of Skinnyman. He is real. Heard of him? Ask Angus.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 4, 2005)

rocketman said:
			
		

> You mean he's on the record sleeve? Please clarify.
> Do you mean the guy from Foreigner? Do you listen to that band too?
> Honest. Doherty isn't the man. He is A man. There will be better generational-inspiring artists.
> I like all kinds of music, but from where I live I am a bit of a fan of Skinnyman. He is real. Heard of him? Ask Angus.



You dont know who mick jones is? I rest my case.


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## nino_savatte (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> the fact that you can't see his talent is what stuns me. It is all there in his melodies - it screams out in front of you. Listen to his music - if you already have
> 
> what is wrong with you nino???? Honestly!!



Quel talent?


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## rocketman (Sep 4, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> You dont know who mick jones is? I rest my case.



As you have not told me about this, "Jones", you do not yet have a case.
You do have a dialogue.

Is Doherty really any good? 
I like music, but remain unconvinced.
Please convince me if you can, it's not a knee-jerk reaction, we have seen him and even have some sounds.
But I just don't think he is truly "all that".

You know?


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## fishfingerer (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> You dont know who mick jones is? I rest my case.


I know who Mick Jones is but can't name anyone else he's produced.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

fishfingerer said:
			
		

> I know who Mick Jones is but can't name anyone else he's produced.



okay. I believe that The Libertines were the first band to be produced by Mick Jones. If anyone is wondering (although I am aware that some of you do know so sorry if I patronise) Mick Jones was the mastermind of The Clash, the chap who wrote, played and produced all the Clash's music basically.

Classics too many to mention, but Rock the Kazbah, Should I stay or should I go, and London Calling, being examples.

The minute Alan McGee (who discovered Oasis) discovered Pete Doherty he handed him over to Mick Jones, saying look, the Libertines are potentially the best British rock n roll band since the Clash (who packed it in in 1983) - can u produce them? 

Rocketman - get yourself a copy of Up The Bracket - the Libertines debut _ (NOT the second one where the cover shows the two exposing their tattoos)  get the first album for starters - it will BLOW YOUR SOCKS OFF -  if u are wondering what they sound like: it is really like early, early Beatles and scuzzy punk of the Clash. Just unbelievably brilliant songs and heart-wrencing Lennonesque ballads that are really, really melodious and catchy. THAT is why people bang on about them as much as they do xxxx


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## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Thanks for the lesson but I know who Mick Jones is and I was listening to the The Clash when you were a lewd thought in your daddy's heid.

Oh and to say that Mick Jones wrote, produced and arranged all The Clash's music does a disservice to Strummer and the rest.


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## silentNate (Sep 5, 2005)

So the Libertines were produced by the same guy that did Big Audio Dynamite then


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

If you dont believe me and dont have time to run to your nearest virgin megastore and purchase a copy, read these reviews of The Libertines debut Up the Bracket:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/rockandalt/reviews/libertines_bracket.shtml


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## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> If you dont believe me and dont have time to run to your nearest virgin megastore and purchase a copy, read these reviews of The Libertines debut Up the Bracket:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/rockandalt/reviews/libertines_bracket.shtml



Are you Doherty's PR or something?


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## Sunspots (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> okay. I believe that The Libertines were the first band to be produced by Mick Jones.



In the eighties, he produced albums for Theatre Of Hate, Ian Hunter _(ex-Mott The Hoople singer)_ and Ellen Foley.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

nino_savatte said:
			
		

> Are you Doherty's PR or something?



NO. 

Are you STILL unconvinced despite some of the comments on the album in the link above. people from all over the world saying things like:

This is the best album I have ever heard.

It is as well, it changed my life forever and Pete Doherty is a genius musically.

GET THE FUCKING ALBUM NINA!!!! I mean, if it can';t touch you - what could???? Saying u dont like the libertines is like saying u dont like the beatles, it really is!


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## tarannau (Sep 5, 2005)

Nah, he's just Doherty's most obsessed fan since that Carlish fella. Swallowed too many NMEs and all that.

Oh, he's alright, just another poncey middle-class kid with a reasonable bit of talent, overhyped and deified in the usual music press way in the lack of anything better.


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## Sunspots (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Saying u dont like the libertines is like saying u dont like the beatles, it really is!



Well believe it or not, not _everybody_ likes The Beatles... 

Or The Libertines.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> NO.
> 
> Are you STILL unconvinced despite some of the comments on the album in the link above. people from all over the world saying things like:
> 
> ...



Look, if I don't like Doherty or The Libertines that is a matter of personal choice and taste. There is nothing you can say that will convince me to buy their derivative rock music.

A lot of people liked Morecambe and Wise but I couldn't stand them. Am I in the wrong? No, I am not.

Adorno would love you.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesy, you have a real gift here.

To be able to get yourself so worked up, to wax so lyrical over music so uninspiring, so insubstantial as to be barely there at all is.......ZZzzzzzz......ZZZzzzzzzzz

*bump*


_ow!_

Sorry - see I dozed off there for a second just _thinking_ about the man.

The body of work that PD (and the libertines) have produced is not _bad_ as such, but it commits the far worse crime of being absolutely "inoffensive" and unremarkable in every way.

As for the man himself? A tedious pretentious wanker with delusions of grandeur who, sickeningly, will actually be _surprised_ when his little bubble of fame bursts and the public (and his remaining friends) turn their back on him.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

The Groke said:
			
		

> Cheesy, you have a real gift here.
> 
> To be able to get yourself so worked up, to wax so lyrical over music so uninspiring, so insubstantial as to be barely there at all is.......ZZzzzzzz......ZZZzzzzzzzz
> 
> ...



That must be a joke.


----------



## Relahni (Sep 5, 2005)

Pete Doherty - Sid Vicious wannabe.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Relahni said:
			
		

> Pete Doherty - Sid Vicious wannabe.



True dat.


----------



## BadlyDrawnGirl (Sep 5, 2005)

He's had his moments. Whereas 'Don't Look Back Into The Sun' was, I felt, a work of shambling indie punk genius in the lineage of The Primitives' 'Crash' and The Only Ones' 'Another Girl Another Planet', everything I've so far cocked an eager ear to by Babyshambles is dog's rod, dog's rod, dog's rod. Even though I cannot fault a title as inspired as 'Killamangiro', it would really piss me off if Doherty had come upon such Bros-level, NME-sponsored adulation merely by way of inept peey_yapppp_ such as 'Fuck Forever'.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> That must be a joke.



*bangs*

*head*

*repeatedly*

*against*

*desk*

*HARD*

*staunches bloodflow*


I guess I could make the same accusation at your original post but....meh......fuckit.....

*sigh*

Yes Cheesy, it was all a big joke. For the record, I think that Pete Docherty is an artistic god, a true renaissance man and I thank my lucky stars each and every day that I am alive at this period in time so that I can bathe in his magnificent glory.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

The Groke said:
			
		

> *bangs*
> 
> *head*
> 
> ...



Just for the record, someone accused me of being some little teenage NME reading faggot lapping up the homilies on Doherty. I am NOT. I'm a 27 year old female journo, and I write for 5 music mags too. My pure driver and motivation for listening to the Libertines in the first place was because of my love for The Clash. I have every single thing they have done, including all the mescaleros stuff Joe did R.I.P.

So I know what the fuck I am talking about, when I defend The Libertines. I ignore the pete doherty tabloid horrorshow and am only interested in the music. Lots of ye, seem to be missing the point here, spectacularly.

Up The Bracket is just like..an inspiration that is simply infused in me like a shimmering thunderbolt fronm which I have not yet recovered and I urge you NOT to comment on this unless u are fully aware of the repertoire of The Libertines music.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> little teenage NME reading _faggot_



 




			
				Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> So I know what the fuck I am talking about, when I defend The Libertines. I ignore the pete doherty tabloid horrorshow and am only interested in the music. Lots of ye, seem to be missing the point here, spectacularly.
> 
> Up The Bracket is just like..an inspiration that is simply infused in me like a shimmering thunderbolt fronm which I have not yet recovered and I urge you NOT to comment on this unless u are fully aware of the repertoire of The Libertines music.



And the point that _you_ seem to be spectacularly missing is that everyone else's opinion is as valid (if not _more_, having read your poetry  ) as yours.

You can't possibly tout "Libertines/PD Music is brilliant" as a bald fact. Your _opinion_ sure, which is fine.

The general consensus of opinion on this board - which is a reasonable representation of a fairly discerning and intelligent cross-section of the "alternative" public - is that they are mediocre to shite.

Deal with it, move on.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

The Groke said:
			
		

> And the point that _you_ seem to be spectacularly missing is that everyone else's opinion is as valid (if not _more_, having read your poetry  ) as yours.
> 
> You can't possibly tout "Libertines/PD Music is brilliant" as a bald fact. Your _opinion_ sure, which is fine.
> 
> ...



I'm suspecting that you have heard neither of the albums then - yes?


----------



## BadlyDrawnGirl (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Just for the record, someone accused me of being some little teenage NME reading faggot lapping up the homilies on Doherty. I am NOT. I'm a 27 year old female journo, and I write for 5 music mags too. My pure driver and motivation for listening to the Libertines in the first place was because of my love for The Clash. I have every single thing they have done, including all the mescaleros stuff Joe did R.I.P.
> 
> So I know what the fuck I am talking about, when I defend The Libertines. I ignore the pete doherty tabloid horrorshow and am only interested in the music. Lots of ye, seem to be missing the point here, spectacularly.
> 
> Up The Bracket is just like..an inspiration that is simply infused in me like a shimmering thunderbolt fronm which I have not yet recovered and I urge you NOT to comment on this unless u are fully aware of the repertoire of The Libertines music.


You are Jolie Lash and I claim my fiver.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 5, 2005)

I keep getting this nagging feeling that Cheesypoof is one of the most subtle and well-done trolls the boards has seen for a long time.

If _not_ then.......well


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Just for the record, someone accused me of being some little teenage NME reading faggot lapping up the homilies on Doherty. I am NOT.* I'm a 27 year old female journo, and I write for 5 music mags too.* My pure driver and motivation for listening to the Libertines in the first place was because of my love for The Clash. I have every single thing they have done, including all the mescaleros stuff Joe did R.I.P.
> 
> So I know what the fuck I am talking about, when I defend The Libertines. I ignore the pete doherty tabloid horrorshow and am only interested in the music. Lots of ye, seem to be missing the point here, spectacularly.
> 
> Up The Bracket is just like..an inspiration that is simply infused in me like a shimmering thunderbolt fronm which I have not yet recovered and I urge you NOT to comment on this unless u are fully aware of the repertoire of The Libertines music.




Thanks for that. Simon Frith would refer to you as a "gatekeeper" for the industry. When I waggishly referred to you as "Doherty's PR" I was actually pretty close to the truth.


----------



## silentNate (Sep 5, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> In the eighties, he produced albums for Theatre Of Hate, Ian Hunter _(ex-Mott The Hoople singer)_ and Ellen Foley.


 Wow!  I remember that Ian Hunter album being really good 
I Cheesypoof is a journo can I ask if she's heard of Calculator [/shameless plug]


----------



## Sunspots (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Up The Bracket is just like..an inspiration that is simply infused in me like a shimmering thunderbolt fronm which I have not yet recovered and I urge you NOT to comment on this unless u are fully aware of the repertoire of The Libertines music.



I'm happy for you.  But you still don't seem to be able to accept that other people might _already_ have listened to the music and _still don't like it._  It's called personal choice, and all your evangelising isn't going to change that.   

Your posts on the subject have been mildy entertaining so far though, so feel free to keep up with the hyperbolics.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> I'm suspecting that you have heard neither of the albums then - yes?



I have had both of them - more of the first than the second - recommended and played at me repeatedly by friends.

I then, unconvinced but still trusting the recommendations, downloaded "Up The Bracket" and kept on my MP3 player for a bit.

My opinion stands: _yawn_


----------



## dirtysanta (Sep 5, 2005)

Doherty is talentless cunt who makes better newspaper headlines than he does music, and hes a shit junkie to boot.

Fuck him. I hope his tour bus crashes.


----------



## The Groke (Sep 5, 2005)

dirtysanta said:
			
		

> Fuck him. I hope his tour bus crashes.



Well yeah, presuming he actually gets his shit together enough to actually _make_ it on to the bus and, y'know, go on tour like proper musicians do.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

I have never listenend to anything by the Libertines, Babyshambles or him solo.  Am I missing out on anything special?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I have never listenend to anything by the Libertines, Babyshambles or him solo.  Am I missing out on anything special?


i don't know - i've never knowingly heard anything by them.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

True.  Give us a clue then.


----------



## dirtysanta (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I have never listenend to anything by the Libertines, Babyshambles or him solo.  Am I missing out on anything special?




No your not.  Everything they have done is complete..


----------



## silentNate (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I have never listenend to anything by the Libertines, Babyshambles or him solo.  Am I missing out on anything special?


 You _must_ have heard 'can't stand me now' surely- its a constant in our local pub


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

silentNate said:
			
		

> You _must_ have heard 'can't stand me now' surely- its a constant in our local pub


any good?


----------



## mk12 (Sep 5, 2005)

Just listened to Up the Bracket again. Pete Doherty _is_ a legend.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

*Can't Stand Me Now*

Like Pickman's pointed out, because he has time to be an arse while not actively seeking work while at the same time thinking it is dead working class to whinge about the fact (the lads on the shift would love you Pickmans) I have never konwingly listened to it.  If I have it isn't memorable as I haven't sought it.


----------



## silentNate (Sep 5, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> any good?


 After about twenty listens you start waiting by the jukebox with a broken chair leg hoping to catch just one of the other locals daring to put it on again  
On first listen it sounds okay


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Like Pickman's pointed out, because he has time to be an arse while not actively seeking work while at the same time thinking it is dead working class to whinge about the fact (the lads on the shift would love you Pickmans) I have never konwingly listened to it.  If I have it isn't memorable as I haven't sought it.


i have never whinged about the fact that you have never listened to pete doherty, nor do i think "it's dead working class" to do so. that's a filthy libel & i look forward to a swift apology. 

oh - fyi, i am "actively seeking work" like it says on the form i sign on the dole.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

mattkidd12 said:
			
		

> Just listened to Up the Bracket again. Pete Doherty _is_ a legend.


so's zeus shagging some girl in the form of a flame.

is pete doherty a _good_ legend?


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

Dole Arsery.

"Sniff Sniff, I am having trouble at the social sniff sniff.  And it is _your_ fault sniff sniff."


----------



## innit (Sep 5, 2005)

The Groke said:
			
		

> I keep getting this nagging feeling that Cheesypoof is one of the most subtle and well-done trolls the boards has seen for a long time.
> 
> If _not_ then.......well


  indeed.

I can't believe they are 27.

Anyway my 2p would be that I really liked Up the Bracket, still listen to it from time to time, thought the second album was not so good but went to see Babyshambles anyway.  In fact I had tickets for a Babyshambles gig which was cancelled, then went to the Astoria gig at which Pete's failure to show up caused a riot (luckily we had not paid for our tickets.  But we were surrounded by people who had shelled out the money and travelled from as far as Nottingham to see him).  In the end I did see them at Brixton Academy and I am happy to report that they were terrible.  I was less happy at the time though, because I was really hoping I would enjoy the gig.  My defence your honour is that again I hadn't paid to be there.

The only way I would be interested in hearing from Mr P Doherty again would be after a long and successful spell in rehab and out of the public eye.


----------



## innit (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Dole Arsery.
> 
> "Sniff Sniff, I am having trouble at the social sniff sniff.  And it is _your_ fault sniff sniff."


...is relevant to Pete Doherty how, exactly?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Dole Arsery.
> 
> "Sniff Sniff, I am having trouble at the social sniff sniff.  And it is _your_ fault sniff sniff."


are you ok? you seem somehow to have lost what remnants of the plot i thought you once grasped.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

Relevant to Pickmans.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Dole Arsery.
> 
> "Sniff Sniff, I am having trouble at the social sniff sniff.  And it is _your_ fault sniff sniff."


is that supposed to be some sort of apology for yr slurs above? cos if it is it doesn't come close to cutting the mustard.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Relevant to Pickmans.


no it isn't.

you seem once again to chuck some random words together in the (vain) hope that they would form a coherent whole.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

?


----------



## mk12 (Sep 5, 2005)

"Can't Stand Me Now" - The Libertines


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Like Pickman's pointed out, because he has time to be an arse while not actively seeking work while at the same time thinking it is dead working class to whinge about the fact [...] I have never konwingly listened to it.


please show me where i have "whinged", or suggested it is "dead working class" to whinge, about "the fact" that you have never knowingly listened to pete doherty. or apologise.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

What a load of shite.


----------



## rocketman (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> I know what the fuck I am talking about, when I defend The Libertines.



WTF? A music journalist that knows what they are talking about?
That's a first!
And another thing - don't you dare confuse your career with the conceit that you have a god-given right to arbitrate taste.
**it!
You don't have that.
Libertines = OK. Doherty= NOt the messiah but a very confused boy.
Did you not notice I said I own his music and have seen him live?
Whatever he may have been, he's absolutely pants now.
Ta-Ta


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> What a load of shite.


it certainly is. but you wrote it. if you can't substantiate your allegations, perhaps you shouldn't make them in future. fuckwit.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

I meant can't Stand Me Know, thanks to mattkid.  It is shite, and I can not remember ever listening to it until that moment.

Sniff sniff.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I meant can't Stand Me Know, thanks to mattkid.  It is shite, and I can not remember ever listening to it until that moment.
> 
> Sniff sniff.


 wanker!


----------



## hotvans (Sep 5, 2005)

couldn't be arsed to read whole thread but Pete Doherty is a talentless fuckwit - hope he doesn't overdose though or everyone will say he is just because he's dead - let him live long so we can all see how talentless he is


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

hotvans said:
			
		

> couldn't be arsed to read whole thread but Pete Doherty is a talentless fuckwit - hope he doesn't overdose though or everyone will say he is just because he's dead - let him live long so we can all see how talentless he is


what, like cliff richard.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> wanker!



A _working_ class wanker.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> A _working_ class wanker.


i don't see the point you seem to be feebly trying to make. though perhaps i'm assuming too much by believing you have a point...


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

You work it out fakerboy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> You work it out fakerboy.


perhaps you should make it explicit so that other people - and i - can see what you're trying to say.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

I have to go now.  Have some banter with you some other time.

Thank fuck I am not now in the situation I was in a few years ago with my mum struggling to bring us up on benefits. She would have got  a job if she could. 

Poor downtrodden prole you.  I feel your pain.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

cheers.


----------



## Ryazan (Sep 5, 2005)

See ya pickmans lad.


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Sep 5, 2005)

I have'nt understood what all the hype was about with the Libertines / Pete Doherty from the start - and why they appeared on virtually every NME cover for 2004. "Up The Bracket" had a few good tunes on it, but "Libertines" was dishwateringly average. They have to be the most overhyped band in history (discounting any suggestion of class   ) - just because their music is so utterly unremarkable. That Doherty has tried to model his image on skag and crack addiction whilst banging a rather gaunt (overstatement of the century - she looks almost as sick as he does) Kate Moss, is tabloid cannon-fodder of the extreme. And whoever sets their stall out to appeal to the tabloids on the basis of "celebrity" deserves to be snubbed, in my opinion.

The final nail was his performance at Live 8 - woeful!


----------



## silentNate (Sep 5, 2005)

I'm thinking of a poll- 'who is the biggest prick?'
Options are going to be Ryazan or Pete Doherty


----------



## loud 1 (Sep 5, 2005)

the blokes a cock.


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> I'm a 27 year old female journo, and I write for 5 music mags too.




so, cheesypoof, your position as a journo leads you to believe that you somehow have an opinion more informed and more valid than other people's?

well, as someone with a helluva lot more music journalism experience than you, i'd argue that your opinion is probably LESS fucking valid, tainted as it is with the whole stench of industry.

and your posts on this thread reveal you as an arrogant idiot.

as you were


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> and your posts on this thread reveal you as an arrogant idiot.



Perfect journalistic style for the NME don't you think?


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

R.I.C.O. said:
			
		

> Perfect journalistic style for the NME don't you think?




true enough..

it just sickens me that a) cheesypoof has one of those 'if you listen to it, you'll love it, and if you don't love it then you're wrong' mindsets and that b) they think that their position as a music hack elevates their opinion somehow.


----------



## BadlyDrawnGirl (Sep 5, 2005)

R.I.C.O. said:
			
		

> Perfect journalistic style for the NME don't you think?


Old school NME! Do I detect essence of Swells...?


----------



## MysteryGuest (Sep 5, 2005)

Pete Doherty is to music what Cheesypoof is to poetry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> true enough..
> 
> it just sickens me that a) cheesypoof has one of those 'if you listen to it, you'll love it, and if you don't love it then you're wrong' mindsets and that b) they think that their position as a music hack elevates their opinion somehow.



you seem to think that _something_ elevates yr opinion above cheesypoof's. what is it, and why should people consider you a better judge of musick?


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

please demonstrate how i suggested that, pickman's.


edit: actually, don't bother. it's clear that's not what i said, so i'm not going to let you screw up another thread.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i'm not going to let you




like you have some sort of authority here!


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

ok, i'll rephrase: i'm not going to let you use me as a means to screw up another thread.


----------



## HarrisonSlade (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> so, cheesypoof, your position as a journo leads you to believe that you somehow have an opinion more informed and more valid than other people's?
> 
> well, as someone with a helluva lot more music journalism experience than you, i'd argue that your opinion is probably LESS fucking valid, tainted as it is with the whole stench of industry.
> 
> ...


Fucking Hell Dub. Is this all you do? Wander around threads seeing how much you can upset other users? (and then reporting people for giving it back to you in return)


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> ok, i'll rephrase: i'm not going to let you use me as a means to screw up another thread.


returning unwillingly to the subject at hand...

you've previously said that there is no chance of catatonia getting near being put on when yr on the decks, that cerys is (iirc) a "caterwauling old alkie". hardly a mature critique of catatonia! yet you have a go at cheesypoof for her attitude? 

pot, meet kettle!


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

i responded to somebody's post. isn't that reasonable? i was expressing an opinion. and i can't even remember the last time i reported somebody's post (other than spam), while we're at it.

in fact, could the same charge not be levelled at you, here,  now?


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> returning unwillingly to the subject at hand...
> 
> you've previously said that there is no chance of catatonia getting near being put on when yr on the decks, that cerys is (iirc) a "caterwauling old alkie". hardly a mature critique of catatonia! yet you have a go at cheesypoof for her attitude?
> 
> pot, meet kettle!





my opinions of catatonia are my opinions, no more of less valid than anybody else's. how does that compare, pickman's? i claim no special authority for them, cheesypoof does. that's the difference, but you already know that.


----------



## innit (Sep 5, 2005)

MysteryGuest said:
			
		

> Pete Doherty is to music what Cheesypoof is to poetry.


Let the thread end here


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> ok, i'll rephrase: i'm not going to let you use me as a means to screw up another thread.


so - you can post but people can't reply to you because it's screwing up a thread?


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

yes, dear.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 5, 2005)

Blimey, aren't there a load of score-settling numptys appearing on this thread.

Anyway I think Dub's got a fair point here. One of the reasons why I'm indifferent to Doherty is that I've seen the messianic level of  hype in NME and elsewhere and been bemused - seeing him live and hearing the records just leaves me distinctly underwhelmed; he's just another derivative indie kid with a little more lyrical poise than others. Hardly groundbreaking or worthy of all the adulation.

And as cheesypoof's apparently a journo in these ludicrous 'hype 'em up, take them down' style publications, it seems a fair chance to have a little jibe at the lack of perspective and inflated self-regard shown by many music journos.


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Blimey, aren't there a load of score-settling numptys appearing on this thread.



yes


----------



## g force (Sep 5, 2005)

I'll say what I say every time a Libertines thread comes up - they onyl had 2 decent songs "Time for Heroes" and "What a waster" a few average tunes and the rest was pap.

Babyshambles are tuneless rubbish - but not in a good way like Dinosaur Jr. 

Doherty may well have some killer tunes in him, but i've yet to see much evidence of it happening.


----------



## dirtysanta (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> his melodies -




Not wishing to cause offence but get to fuck.! The cunts tone deaf. Cant play guitar for shit.  Rubbish.


----------



## Pie 1 (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> get yourself a copy of Up The Bracket - the Libertines debut it will BLOW YOUR SOCKS OFF




I did. My socks have never remained quite so firmly attached to my feet.

I didn't not like it, nor like it, just found all rather dull really and nothing he does is convincing me any other way. He just seems like a real prat.


----------



## MysteryGuest (Sep 5, 2005)

~ ~ ~-------ooo00000OOOOO *THE END* OOOOO00000ooo------- ~ ~ ~​


----------



## R.I.C.O. (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> true enough..
> 
> it just sickens me that a) cheesypoof has one of those 'if you listen to it, you'll love it, and if you don't love it then you're wrong' mindsets and that b) they think that their position as a music hack elevates their opinion somehow.



Its a sad but common story in the murky world of music journalism - remember that these people believe themselves to be trendsetters just because they write for a music magazine - but this is an utter lie when you account for the huge kickbacks these magazines recieve from major record labels to promote bad albums and give them good reviews. Then theres the industry-esque attitude to music file sharing - their claim to be "independent" is an absolute joke....


----------



## MysteryGuest (Sep 5, 2005)




----------



## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

well, have you EVER spoken to someone who felt so in love with someones music that they would almost refuse to believe that anyone couldn't love it?

my passion and arrogance on this subject is an exception to my every rule - I really really swear by it.


----------



## MysteryGuest (Sep 5, 2005)

Oh.  OK then.


----------



## BadlyDrawnGirl (Sep 5, 2005)

g force said:
			
		

> I'll say what I say every time a Libertines thread comes up - they onyl had 2 decent songs "Time for Heroes" and "What a waster" a few average tunes and the rest was pap.
> 
> Babyshambles are tuneless rubbish - but not in a good way like Dinosaur Jr.
> 
> Doherty may well have some killer tunes in him, but i've yet to see much evidence of it happening.


IMHO:

'Don't Look Back Into the Sun' - 9/10
'I Get Along' - 7/10
'Time For Heroes' - 7/10
'Can't Stand Me Now' - 7/10
'What A Waster' - 7/10
'Up The Bracket' - 5/10
'What Became Of The Likely Lads' - 5/10
'Killamangiro' - 3/10
'Fuck Forever' - 2/10


----------



## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> well, have you EVER spoken to someone who felt so in love with someones music that they would almost refuse to believe that anyone couldn't love it?
> 
> my passion and arrogance on this subject is an exception to my every rule - I really really swear by it.




that's fine, i applaud your enthusiasm. i love seeing people being utterly passionate about music. i just thought it was a bit much trying to 'pull rank' about it, that's all.


edited to add: for the record, i think the LIbertines would have been considered fairly unremarkable if they hadn't arrived in an indie scene lacking in the kind of mythology and charm they deal in. they were funny and literate and ticked all the 'wasted glamour' boxes. but - Time For Heroes aside, which is virtually a Smiths cover anyway     - i don't hear much in the songs from either album, or the Babyshambles stuff, to get worked up about. i wanted to like them but they just didn't raise themselves above tolerable.


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## R.I.C.O. (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> well, have you EVER spoken to someone who felt so in love with someones music that they would almost refuse to believe that anyone couldn't love it?
> 
> my passion and arrogance on this subject is an exception to my every rule - I really really swear by it.



Well everyones entitled to their own music tastes, however bad they are.   

You know, some people round these parts _actually like _ Sting - oh, the humanity!


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## Pigeon (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> Mick Jones is the greatest producer of modern times,



  

I'll bet he don't even think that himself!

Pete Doherty? Dictionary definition of "bleedin' average."


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## Pigeon (Sep 5, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> In the eighties, he produced albums for Theatre Of Hate and Ellen Foley.



A veritable "Who's Who?" of mediocrity.


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## rocketman (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> well, have you EVER spoken to someone who felt so in love with someones music that they would almost refuse to believe that anyone couldn't love it?



Yes. 
Don't mean they are right. 

Your awareness of your own fan-dom in this case either undermines your argument, or means your awareness is slowly switching-on.

He's just a poor addicted rich boy, that can't turn up at gigs and cannot remember his lyrics.

Remember the Wildhearts? Thye had similar problems, but guess what! They turned up for their gigs, played them well, delighted their fans...and could do it in any state.

Even that Williams character has a few "moments", so folk say. And he manages to perform.

Take a look at Shane McGowan, if you like. He's almost completely incoherent between songs, but when he sings he has the power of the Irish bards.

(A power Joe Strummer also had, a lamented and missed artist. I toured with a band supporting the Pogues on the tour Strummer stood in for Shane for, so got to meet Strummer then).

Doherty as an artist can't continue while his junkieness continues. He just isn't up to standard. 

If you write for the music papers, then please stop saying how good he is, when he isn't at the moment, and stop focusing on/glorifying his addiction. It does him no favours. He needs help getting off the drugs if he is ever to be able to live up to the hype.

If you continue to do this hero-worship thing he'll never clean up, and you and writers like you will be complicit in his eventual death. You are killing what you love because it sells papers.

How does that feel?

And the fact Alan McGee is behind him basically explains why the music press have performed like such fawning puppies over Doherty.

Despite selling Creation, McGee remains a very powerful industry force in UK music.

Please don't be fooled though. Old school hype does not a great talent make.

Doherty will never be up to scratch now until he cleans his act up.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> okay. I believe that The Libertines were the first band to be produced by Mick Jones.


So not the greatest producer of modern times then as you said.



> The minute Alan McGee *(who discovered Oasis)* discovered Pete Doherty he handed him over to Mick Jones,


The prosecution rests your honour. No more questions.


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## Cheesypoof (Sep 5, 2005)

fishfingerer said:
			
		

> So not the greatest producer of modern times then as you said.
> 
> 
> The prosecution rests your honour. No more questions.



ask me anything. I will convert you!!!!
   

By the way, if people can take time to read this whole thread, they'll also find samples of pete's poetry (which was honoured by the Robert Burns society and is NOT 6th form - what twat said that heheh) AND about 50 comments from listeners of the libs debut album 'UP THE BRACKET"

U will find that the way I am going on about the music, i am far from alone, or fanatical.


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## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> AND about 50 comments from listeners of the libs debut album 'UP THE BRACKET"



erm.

i could probably find you 100 comments from a David Hasselhoff website about how great he is. does this mean that he's great, or that some fans think he is?

if you're a journalist, you REALLY need to have a think about how you gauge opinions etc.


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## poului (Sep 5, 2005)

*gfyfcrty56r7u6*

Cheesypoof, is your real name Sarah Dempster by any chance?


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## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> well, have you EVER spoken to someone who felt so in love with someones music that they would almost refuse to believe that anyone couldn't love it?
> 
> my passion and arrogance on this subject is an exception to my every rule - I really really swear by it.



You're still a gatekeeper and by starting this thread I suspect that there is an agenda behind the gushing but innocent-sounding "The Libertines are brill" nonsense.

Doherty doesn't need your hype but you clearly feels he does.


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## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> ask me anything. I will convert you!!!!
> 
> 
> By the way, if people can take time to read this whole thread, they'll also find samples of pete's poetry (which was honoured by the Robert Burns society and is NOT 6th form - what twat said that heheh) AND about 50 comments from listeners of the libs debut album 'UP THE BRACKET"
> ...



More PR.


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## rocketman (Sep 5, 2005)

poului said:
			
		

> Cheesypoof, is your real name Sarah Dempster by any chance?



Oh dear God please don't tell me Cheesy is the new Julie Burchill!
Oh I fear for the remaining intelligence of this nation.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> ask me anything. I will convert you!!!!


Don't bother. I'm preoccupied with trying to work out how to get to San Diego for Rocket From The Crypt's last ever show. That's a band that personifies the true spirit of punk rock'n'roll in ways that selfish talentless spoiled sub-busker fuckups like Doherty have absolutely no chance of ever comprehending or emulating.


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## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

say it isn't so?


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## fishfingerer (Sep 5, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> say it isn't so?





> On Halloween night in San Diego, Rocket from the Crypt will be playing our farewell show. After 16 years of scars and ear damage all in the name of spreading goodwill and the Rock N Roll doctrine, we will take the stage for the last time on our favorite day of the year.  We know that it is very difficult for those around the world to be with us for this celebration, but we invite all that have been a part of this awesome ride to come out one more time and give it up for the band.  We will offer those that have supported and fueled us the first opportunity to purchase tickets. The show is taking place in a hotel ballroom and room packages will be offered with the tickets if you desire. There is a limited number of these discounted room/ticket packages available. There will be five ticket options. 1. Ticket only, 2. Room with 1 ticket, 3. Room with 2 tickets, 4. Room with 3 tickets, 5. Room with 4 tickets.  The show is unfortunately 21 and up only as there will be rampant liver-defying consumption.  The rest of the info is below.
> 
> Rocket From The Crypt’s last show
> Monday, October 31 2005
> ...


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## Dubversion (Sep 5, 2005)

shit and blast 

one of the finest live acts i ever did see. milesy may weep


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## Iam (Sep 5, 2005)

A mate (who could actually post this himself!!) spoke to him at the Snakes show a couple of weeks ago and he said he needs to take some time to concentrate on the label and production work.


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## R.I.C.O. (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> ask me anything. I will convert you!!!!



Ok, I have a question. Why do all their songs sound so similar?


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## Liveist (Sep 5, 2005)

Pete Doherty: really don't see why he's so hyped up. He just seems like some indie lad on smack. The Libertines did nothing spectacular and Babyshambles just sound like a mess. Jesus! Are Rock and Indie listeners so desperate for a new messiah they're hyping up the mess that is Pete Doherty? I really can't understand Cheesypoof's enthusiam with him or his 6th form poetry. 

Another problem with the British industry and the media, hyping up piss poor bands when there's better artists out there who can do it better. People wonder why more British artists don't do well in America when we're hyping up the shit ones.


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## Sunspots (Sep 5, 2005)

Pigeon said:
			
		

> A veritable "Who's Who?" of mediocrity.



Hey, I'm not saying they're any good...   

Just illustrating the fact that, even if it was shit, Mick Jones (-apparently "the greatest producer of modern times"   ) did actually produce other stuff before The Libertines, contrary to Cheesypoof's earlier post:




			
				Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> I believe that The Libertines were the first band to be produced by Mick Jones.



I love music, and I think it's great that Cheesypoof's so enthusiastic.  But it gets my back up when somebody insists that we must all bow down to their new god. It's like being ranted at by Dennis Hopper's journalist in _Apocalypse Now_...


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## Iam (Sep 5, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> But it gets my back up when somebody insists that we must all bow down to their new god. It's like being ranted at by Dennis Hopper's journalist in _Apocalypse Now_...



"What are they gonna say about him? What are they gonna say? That he was a kind man? That he was a wise man? That he had plans? That he had wisdom? Bullshit man!"


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## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> okay. I believe that The Libertines were the first band to be produced by Mick Jones. If anyone is wondering (although I am aware that some of you do know so sorry if I patronise) Mick Jones was the mastermind of The Clash, the chap who wrote, played and produced all the Clash's music basically.
> 
> Classics too many to mention, but Rock the Kazbah, Should I stay or should I go, and London Calling, being examples.
> 
> The minute Alan McGee (who discovered Oasis) discovered Pete Doherty he handed him over to Mick Jones, saying look, the Libertines are potentially the best British rock n roll band since the Clash (who packed it in in 1983) - can u produce them?



I’ll try to be gentle but you’re talking absolute shite. I can’t remember them all and I’m at work so can’t check but I do know that Sandy Pearlman produced the second album, Guy Thomas produced London Calling, Glyn Johns produced Combat Rock, as well as the fact that Strummer wrote many of the songs, with Simonon chipping in with the occasional number. Yes, Mick Jones was good, very good but he simply didn’t write, perform and produce everything the Clash did, you muppet. And, imo, PD is a stuck-up little twat with little talent who I sincerely hopes shuffles back off to some dead-end squat down the east end where he can eat cheese toasties to his hearts content.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 5, 2005)

Rock.





Silly.


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## Iam (Sep 5, 2005)

Speedo! Speedo! Speedo!


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## Sunspots (Sep 5, 2005)

Paulie Tandoori said:
			
		

> And, imo, PD is a stuck-up little twat with little talent who I sincerely hopes shuffles back off to some dead-end squat down the east end where he can eat cheese toasties to his hearts content.



-Oi, leave cheese toasties out of all this!!!


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## marshall (Sep 5, 2005)

People talk about his ‘potential’, but he’s almost 27, ffs! 

It ain’t exactly young. And compare his *ahem* canon of work with real geniuses at a similar age; Hendrix or Jimbo or whoever…Johnny Borrell’s got ‘potential’, what is he? 22? That’s more like it. Doherty? Nah, he’s had long enough to deliver…


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## rocketman (Sep 5, 2005)

marshall said:
			
		

> People talk about his ‘potential’, but he’s almost 27, ffs!
> 
> It ain’t exactly young. And compare his *ahem* canon of work with real geniuses at a similar age; Hendrix or Jimbo or whoever…Johnny Borrell’s got ‘potential’, what is he? 22? That’s more like it. Doherty? Nah, he’s had long enough to deliver…



I have smashed my Babyshambles and Libertines CDs as a result of becoming so anti Doherty from this thread.


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## Virtual Blue (Sep 5, 2005)

...phew...I didn't realise so many of you appreciate PD.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 5, 2005)

marshall said:
			
		

> People talk about his ‘potential’, but he’s almost 27, ffs!
> 
> It ain’t exactly young. And compare his *ahem* canon of work with real geniuses at a similar age; Hendrix or Jimbo or whoever…Johnny Borrell’s got ‘potential’, what is he? 22? That’s more like it. Doherty? Nah, he’s had long enough to deliver…


Yeah, Husker Du had released 7 albums, 2 of them doubles, by the time they were 27 years old and had broken up, despite having alcohol and heroin problems.


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## nino_savatte (Sep 5, 2005)

Hardly, if anything Doherty embodies the idea of the political economy of the sign...albeit in musical/cultural terms. He has embraced all the cliched trappings of rock stardom: drug addiction, erratic behaviour etc; the music industry can then sell him as _authentic_ because they can point to other [dead] rockstars and claim that Doherty is "one of them" and by virtue of this fact, he is a genius or a god. This is a dubious lineage that has been largely constructed by the media and it is this lineage (or lack of it) that offers excellent marketing opportunities.

Cheesypoof derided his treatment at the hands of the tabloid press, but the tabloids have actually helped his career by perpetuating the myth of the dissolute rock star. The bad boy can then go on to shift shedloads of CDs, while moaning about the tabloid and how "they done him wrong". It's all good marketing.


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## cyberfairy (Sep 5, 2005)

rocketman said:
			
		

> Yes.
> Don't mean they are right.
> 
> Your awareness of your own fan-dom in this case either undermines your argument, or means your awareness is slowly switching-on.
> ...




absolutely right. i remember watching danny wildheart throwing up whilst playing he was so ill but they weren't a stupid, selfish and unprofessional as to let people down that had spent time, money and effort in going to see them...Enjoy his music if you want but don't have the audacity to post up a thread on a discussion board, telling us we're wrong for not feeling the same...


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## noodles (Sep 5, 2005)

Cheesypoof said:
			
		

> The minute Alan McGee (who discovered Oasis) discovered Pete Doherty he handed him over to Mick Jones



I stopped reading here, when this Doherty fanboy/girl got their knickers in so much of a twist they got basic facts wrong. "Up The Bracket" (a passable album) was produced my Mick Jones, way before Doherty had met McGee.

And, as for Mick Jones being a great producer, well that's a joke. The production on "The Libertines" is the worst I have heard in many a year.

Doherty once had a bit of talent, and has turned himself into a living cliche.


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## Jayshat (Sep 5, 2005)

This should have been a poll!

PD would have been more unpopular then Jamiroquai, which was quite an uneven poll for some unknown reason.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Sep 6, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> -Oi, leave cheese toasties out of all this!!!



But they are so creative and inspirational man, if it wasn't for cheese toasties my life would mean nothing, they speak to me!


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## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2005)

This crap thread encapsulates in one person why the music press died in this country. Pathetic. In the bad way.


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## phildwyer (Sep 6, 2005)

The decline of the British music press was as precipitous as it was unexpected.  I can't think of another genre of anything, ever, that went from being so brilliant to being such utter crap so quickly.  But then I suppose we're really only talking about one generation of brilliant writers, say Lester Bangs through Paul Morely, although it seemed like several generations at the time.


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## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2005)

Esp when you gave up reading in the early-mid 80-s eh phil?


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## phildwyer (Sep 6, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Esp when you gave up reading in the early-mid 80-s eh phil?



I did stop reading the music press then, yes.  Know why?  It was *crap* by then, that's why.  Do you seriously dispute this?


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## bouncer_the_dog (Sep 6, 2005)

Pff! its definatly more crap now than it was then   get with it!


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## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2005)

Oh and it didn't show ten miles high! 

Indeed i do. And on the basis of the _next_ ten years writers, not those of the _previous_ decade.


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## phildwyer (Sep 6, 2005)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Oh and it didn't show ten miles high!
> 
> Indeed i do. And on the basis of the _next_ ten years writers, not those of the _previous_ decade.



Who were the decent writers for the music press between 85 and 95?  I'll give you Simon Reynolds.


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## fishfingerer (Sep 6, 2005)

Swells, Tommy Udo, David Quantick, David Stubbs.


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## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2005)

phildwyer said:
			
		

> Who were the decent writers for the music press between 85 and 95?  I'll give you Simon Reynolds.


 You can have 
Andrew Mueller
Davuid Stubbs (blemished record)
Chris Roberts
Simon Price
The Stud Brothers
Dele Faedele
David Quantick
Stuart Maconie

Off the top of me head.


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## phildwyer (Sep 6, 2005)

fishfingerer said:
			
		

> Swells, Tommy Udo, David Quantick, David Stubbs.



Oh alright, there were a few.  I do like Swells a lot, though I think you'll find that he started at the NME in 1981.  Funnily enough, he's recently moved here to Philadelphia, and writes a good column for the local free paper.  But still, your last hardly compares with the late 70's--early 80's lot.


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## pk (Sep 8, 2005)

Funnily enough, I prefer to listen to music than read the opinions of stuck up cunts about it.

Which is why I think Pete Docherty is an over-rated weedy little cunt, and so is his girlfriend.

Don't give up the smack, Pete, it's the only thing that gives you an edge.


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## han (Sep 8, 2005)

pk said:
			
		

> Funnily enough, I prefer to listen to music than read the opinions of stuck up cunts about it.
> 
> Which is why I think Pete Docherty is an over-rated weedy little cunt, and so is his girlfriend.
> 
> Don't give up the smack, Pete, it's the only thing that gives you an edge.



I agree wholeheartedly....


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## cathal marcs (Sep 8, 2005)

Ahh he is OK like a few tunes but in no way great. Fail to see what the hype is although love Dont Look back Into the Sun and Death On The Stairs


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## STFC (Sep 8, 2005)

For the record, I really liked Up The Bracket, played it to death when I first got it. Death On The Stairs, Time For Heroes, Boys In The Band, Up The Bracket and The Good Old Days are great tunes. Radio America was pony though. Don't Look Back Into The Sun was quality. I even bought the Babyshambles sessions, basically 3 CDs of Pete in a hotel room having a bit of a singalong. When the second album came out, it wasn't like a new album as most of the tracks had been about for a couple of years in various forms. I was lucky enough to go to two gigs that Peter actually turned up for, The Libertines at Brixton Academy and Babyshambles at the Rhythm Factory. The Brixton gig was brilliant, the sheer energy of the band's performance blew me away. Sadly Peter has lost his way, and I have gone from being a fan to following his so-called career with amusement. For Lovers was a great tune, but nothing he has done since comes anywhere near. F*** Forever is as embarrassing as his tabloid exploits. How his army of young fans haven't lost patience with him by now is both bizarre and worrying. Mr Doherty, you had the world at your feet and you blew it. Big time. You're a joke.


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## BEARBOT (Sep 8, 2005)

i think the libertines first record is alright, 2nd is not brilliant...

i guess they got so hyped(pre the kate moss/petey relationship) cos they were a good lookin bunch who were somewhat literate and/or political in interviews...im guessing they showed a glimmer of personality so the jurnos jumped on them.there are lots of bands out there that have nothin at all to say for themselves...ie just "dullpeople/average in every way" ppl who happen to write songs and play em.

somethin is fishy with the person who started this thread..she desperately wants people on this forum to RESPECT pete d.why is it so important to her..?

after i read the interview in the link she provided, i admit i was suprised and felt he came across as pretty thoughtful/intelligent and knows whats goin on in the world.
seems sad he is just into getting "elegantly wasted" now...


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