# Recording your jobsearch when on Universal Credit



## LeytonCatLady (Dec 7, 2016)

Evening everyone.

Like lots of people, I have recently had the misfortune of becoming unemployed and needing to turn to the state for support - and I live in a UC area. The work coach has asked me a few times to record my jobsearch on my Universal Jobmatch account, which I am not happy to do as I have never allowed access. I quoted the regs at her which say claimants can record their jobsearch activity however they choose. Her favourite retort is "Well that was Jobseekers' Allowance, this is Universal Credit!" 


However, I've just found this link to what are specifically Universal Credit regulations, and nothing has changed! See clauses J3102 - J3107:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/562470/admj3.pdf


They still can't force you to show them your UJM account without the Data Protection Act changing (which obviously it hasn't), but many coaches, like the one I see, will try and kid on that that's now the only acceptable way of recording what you have done to look for work. My coach has blatantly lied that "Everybody HAS to use UJM to show what they've done", despite me repeatedly reminding her that that wasn't true, and what's more, she knew I knew. 

But as these UC regs prove, they still accept any other methods - whether that's employer/employee correspondence; activity on UJM (only with consent); your written evidence or even your uncorroborated verbal evidence. The only difference is it doesn't have the same advice about how the coaches _cannot _force you to give access to UJM, but then that goes without saying - again, DPA.

So, basically everyone, if your UC coach gets pedantic about which benefit the rules apply to, this is ammunition they can't really argue with! Well, some might, but then you can ask if their boss is aware they are flouting the rules.

Hope this is useful.


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## Chilli.s (Dec 7, 2016)

Someone should devise an app that does. Trawls job sites and notes what has or could have been applied for.


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## Jon-of-arc (Dec 7, 2016)

I can't really see the point in worrying too much about showing them whats on my UJM a/c.  The only reason to have one is to record your jobsearch to show them.  Just as convenient a method as any other.  They were certainly pushing it as there preferred method when I was signing on in October, but they did concede they'd accept other methods.   Its all just bollocks, really, no one has the time to check what you're doing, so you can put any old shit.  Fucking have to, in fact - 35 hours a week lol.  I was actively searching, had two job offers within a month, but still had to spend half an hour every couple of days making up plausible sounding stuff on top of what I actually had done, to add to my record.  Got a gold star for my great job search and everything.


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## LeytonCatLady (Dec 7, 2016)

Hi Jon,

You're right, UJM is a convenient method for those who choose to use it - my issue is with coaches lying to you and saying no other form of evidence will do.


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## Jon-of-arc (Dec 7, 2016)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Hi Jon,
> 
> You're right, UJM is a convenient method for those who choose to use it - my issue is with coaches lying to you and saying no other form of evidence will do.



It did really piss me off when they acted like it was the only way, so worth pointing out what you did in the op.  Went out of there literally fuming, but then got on with using it, and found it reasonably convenient.  When I went back to sign on two weeks later, that's when they said I could have done it on a bit of paper or whatever.


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## LeytonCatLady (Dec 7, 2016)

I mean, I have nothing against using UJM to _look _for work as long as the company have posted their direct contact details on there and it's not through a dodgy third-party recruiter (I worry about scams).

Regarding showing the Jobcentre my UJM content or giving them access, I don't like the Big Brother aspect of it, being monitored all the time. Makes me feel like a kid, or a criminal! When you're unemployed, you have very few rights as it is, so that makes me determined to hang on to the few legal rights I do have, such as privacy. So there's a principle involved.

I have actually tried the digital diary to see what it was like, but it's worse than crap. When you reach the character limit, you have to hit the return key and when I do that, it always ends up crashing and losing what I've put (and I wouldn't put it past the powers-that-be to have designed it that way on purpose so if you've lost everything when you try to show it on signing day, whoops! Sorry, no money for YOU this month!). Writing it all down by hand is less hassle, not to mention covering yourself.

At the end of the day, I'm trying bloody hard to look for work (hopefully have an offer or two coming up soon); I'm keeping a record so it annoys me when all they can do is nitpick about the bloody format I've chosen to present it in. My coach even acknowledges I've done a lot, but when I saw her the other day, she said "You don't need to write down _everything _you've done; only examples!" Ha ha yeah, and we all know what will happen then. She'll then say I've not done enough! Not falling for that trick.


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## weltweit (Dec 7, 2016)

I don't mind giving them access to my UJM activities. I note everything I do as I do it, in a spreadsheet with the date, and it takes only a minute or two to upload to UJM. Letting them see my UJM seems to satisfy them in the fastest and easiest way.


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## LeytonCatLady (Dec 8, 2016)

That's cool Weltweit. I'm genuinely glad to hear you've had a hassle free time with them and they haven't used your UJM against you. Unfortunately, I never really know where I am with this particular coach - she can be friendly and encouraging one day, plain arsey the next. I can't afford to trust her.

For anyone else who's uncomfortable about allowing access, I have done a little more digging and the fact they can't make _UC _claimants give access is also confirmed in paragraph 10 of ADM Memo 15/16. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/534893/adm15-16.pdf
And in case your coach says "But the rules have changed!", the current regs I quoted in the OP were updated and are valid as of October 2016.


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## zippyRN (Jan 16, 2017)

Once again the blind spots  over the attitude  cycle rule the roost ...


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## existentialist (Jan 16, 2017)

zippyRN said:


> Once again the blind spots  over the attitude  cycle rule the roost ...


I think it's time you fucked off from support threads. 

You contribute nothing.


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## Libertad (Jan 16, 2017)

existentialist said:


> I think it's time you fucked off from support threads.
> 
> You contribute nothing.



Report every post zippyRN makes on a support thread.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 16, 2017)

Libertad said:


> Report every post zippyRN makes on a support thread.


Why stop there?


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 16, 2017)

Happy belated New Year everybody. As this thread's been bumped, I thought I'd give you all an update. 

My usual coach went on a month's annual leave from mid December to January, so I saw someone else, who actually listened to what I had to say and was reasonable. I showed him my written jobsearch record and he asked me if I'd considered writing it up in UJM. I explained my issues with allowing access, and the technical glitches I'd had with it. He just said that was fine as long as I was keeping a record of some description, and never brought it up again. It goes to show the answer will be different depending on which member of staff you're speaking to, which is why I like to keep up to date with the official regulations. It does feel as though each of them makes up rules as they go along.

The lady I usually see is also OK most of the time, to be fair. When I first met with her after making my UC claim in October, that's the first time she tried the line about it being mandatory to allow DWP access to your UJM account. I knew this wasn't true from reading the UJM toolkit when I briefly claimed JSA in early 2015. At that time she said "Whatever way you're comfortable with" and put a note on the system to say I recorded my jobsearch in clerical format.

In November, I briefly got some casual restaurant work, which got me away from the DWP for a bit, but it was a shitty zero hour contract and they stopped giving me hours so I had to re-engage with the Jobcentre and got the same coach. On 7th December 2016, I went for our weekly appointment and she was 10 minutes late seeing me because she was in a one-to-one with her manager. When she came out, I handed her my written record as usual, and that's when she brought up the UJM thing again, quite aggressively. It didn't take a fly on the wall to work out that this manager must have been giving her a hard time and pressuring her to be tougher on claimants. I stood firm and said "I'm not allowing access and that's that. Your regs prove you have no right to insist on it" which is when she tried to tell me the rules under UC were different (which prompted me to dig around online and make this thread). She gave me some vague BS about the "district checking it" (read: the regional manager gives _her _a hard time if she's not bullying enough claimants to use it and allow access) and how if I didn't give access to UJM, it could look like I wasn't really jobsearching. I asked why typing the same information into the activity notes magically made it more valid than if it was handwritten, and her reply was "They discourage it [handwritten evidence]." I said "They can _discourage _it all they like, but until you can show me a change in the rules that specifically says I have to allow access to my UJM account because no other method is accepted, they're wasting their time." Once again, she backed off. 

On the positive side, I don't think this coach is malicious. One day I'd left the appointment and we'd forgotten to book the next one. She made sure to ring me and tell me when to come in next. If she truly wanted to fuck my life up, she could have easily sent out a letter on the slowest service so I wouldn't get it on time, and she didn't do that. I saw her again too on this Friday just gone, and she was OK then too. She asked what I'd worn to a recent interview and when I said black suit, black shoes and a nice blouse, she said she was sure I'd looked very smart. She can be lovely when she wants to be! But if the subject of UJM comes up again, I'll ask for the manager and ask why they're making staff lie to claimants.


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## Jackobi (Jan 20, 2017)

LeytonCatLady said:


> It does feel as though each of them makes up rules as they go along.



When I was claiming JSA, I found that a lot of the employees don't know the rules themselves but consult their manager if challenged. At least that's what happened in my experience a few times when I challenged incorrect assertions.


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## Anton (Jan 21, 2017)

may find this useful, apologies if its been posted before. it is Universal Automaton, that does the UJM jobsearch and applies for jobs for you. 
Universal Automation

it is an app on google chrome. 
its not perfect, but can be useful. 
I was unemployed, and UJM is a prelude to a creepy police state.
cause of a lot of stress and tension as well. 

if you don't use UJM they will bully you. it gets worse the longer you may be on it. 

I also found this youtube channel where this guy discusses some of these issues about UJM, and I found them helpful. 




best of luck and don't let the bastards grind you down!!


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 23, 2017)

Thanks Anton, I just watched that video and James really knows his stuff.

I just got back from today's appointment and UJM wasn't mentioned at all. However, I was a bit annoyed because she said "So you've been on UC for a year now and not found anything?" It's true that I did put in a claim for UC in January 2016, but nothing came of it because I found work shortly after that and stayed with that employer until September. Even then, I didn't claim again until October because I wanted to try and find some more work before turning to the Department of Worthless Plebs. And I did get some casual restaurant work in November, so it's technically only two months I've been unemployed, but it seems they don't count any work you've done, however long term. Basically, once you've put in a claim for Universal Credit, that's it - they get your teeth into you for life and they'll say you're long term unemployed regardless. She's now using this as an excuse to send me for all manner of zero hour crap. The good thing about UC is you don't have to sign off and get nothing at all - they just adjust what you get based on your earnings each month - but the bad thing is you can't refuse it and even if you don't, you're never really free of the DWP. The only safe way is to find something permanent, but permanent jobs are like hen's teeth.

Just got to keep surviving, I guess. Thanks for listening.


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## Anton (Jan 25, 2017)

not a lot of compassion is there?
Man ruled 'fit for work' dies from heart attack on way home from Jobcentre | Camden New Journal


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 25, 2017)

Thanks Anton. The good news is I started work today! It's a call centre role at a housing association, and it's 12 weeks on the agency with a look to possibly go permanent after that. I had to ring Universal Credit this morning to explain my change of circumstances and it felt great saying I wouldn't be in tomorrow (she'd booked me onto a group interview thing for a dodgy-sounding zero-hour "opportunity"). As my hours are full time, I won't need to attend any JCP appointments. I'm determined to work fecking hard and really prove myself at this job so they keep me on and I'll hopefully never have to deal with DWP again.

Anyone reading this who's going through the same thing, don't lose heart! I know it's hard when you're not in work, but I promise one day you'll find the perfect fit. I have received some great moral support on this thread from the Urbs, and anyone who could do with the same, please post to this thread when you like and I'll be more than happy to pay it forward and help or advise any way I can.

Don't give up, jobseekers! Your time _is _gonna come.


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## Anton (Jan 25, 2017)

the job centre advisers have to play a good cop/bad cop routine. they are trained to do it.

i was shouted at by my adviser "ten months and you've found nothing!'.
he then asked to see my UJB account. I said I didn't have the number, and that I didn't have to show him because it was against european date protection law. at that, he got angry, and asked me if I lived in the borough of xxxx, and if i was really looking for work, and whether i would move somewhere else blah blah blah. i then had to come in the next week with the number. I was frogmarched to a computer, to open my account so the adviser could see the jobsearch on UJB. I said i would do it, but he needed to direct me, ie write it down and sign it. he did that, and i showed the account but it was suitably prepared and packed thanx to the universal automaton.

he calmed down after, and didn't ask to look at it again.

its a routine they are trained to do, be nice at first, then later more harsh, they have certain phrases they all use. they don't like it when someone tells them about data protection.


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## Anton (Jan 25, 2017)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Thanks Anton. The good news is I started work today! It's a call centre role at a housing association, and it's 12 weeks on the agency with a look to possibly go permanent after that. I had to ring Universal Credit this morning to explain my change of circumstances and it felt great saying I wouldn't be in tomorrow (she'd booked me onto a group interview thing for a dodgy-sounding zero-hour "opportunity"). As my hours are full time, I won't need to attend any JCP appointments. I'm determined to work fecking hard and really prove myself at this job so they keep me on and I'll hopefully never have to deal with DWP again.
> 
> Anyone reading this who's going through the same thing, don't lose heart! I know it's hard when you're not in work, but I promise one day you'll find the perfect fit. I have received some great moral support on this thread from the Urbs, and anyone who could do with the same, please post to this thread when you like and I'll be more than happy to pay it forward and help or advise any way I can.
> 
> Don't give up, jobseekers! Your time _is _gonna come.



congratulations! 
i found work recently as well. 

with the exception of some of the details, everything you say above is what i feel.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 25, 2017)

Anton said:


> and don't let the bastards grind you down


 
this is the most important advice when dealing with DWP



LeytonCatLady said:


> The good news is I started work today!


 


hope you stick around Urban.  And your kitty - who I'm sure would be welcome on the cat thread


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## Thimble Queen (Jan 25, 2017)

Good news LeytonCatLady hope it works out well for you


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 25, 2017)

Cheers guys. Gotta go to bed now as I'm going to Welwyn tomorrow morning for training - though my role is based in Enfield. But they're refunding my train fare! This employer seems to treat staff well and, as appropriate for my online identity, I feel like I've really landed on my feet.

Night!


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## stuff_it (Feb 23, 2017)

Chilli.s said:


> Someone should devise an app that does. Trawls job sites and notes what has or could have been applied for.


It exists. 

Universal Automation                             | Get the Extension


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## LeytonCatLady (Mar 23, 2017)

Hi everyone. I'm still at my job and I'll find out in about four weeks if I'm being made permanent. I hope so, because I've just come home from work to a letter from the DWP saying they want me to come in for a Universal Credit appointment on Monday 3rd April!

WTF? I told them I was working full time and they said I wouldn't need to attend any appointments. I'm also getting more than enough to pay rent, bills, eat, have a few treats AND save a few quid, so I'm not getting Universal Credit payments anyway, as I no longer need it. However, this apparently doesn't stop the Jobcentre vultures stalking you! I'll phone them up and remind them of course, but don't they think if I needed their help I would have already contacted them? It makes me sick the way they try and control you even when you're not claiming. At least they can't sanction my money if they're not giving me any. Feckin' eejits!


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## One dog (Mar 23, 2017)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Hi everyone. I'm still at my job and I'll find out in about four weeks if I'm being made permanent. I hope so, because I've just come home from work to a letter from the DWP saying they want me to come in for a Universal Credit appointment on Monday 3rd April!
> 
> WTF? I told them I was working full time and they said I wouldn't need to attend any appointments. I'm also getting more than enough to pay rent, bills, eat, have a few treats AND save a few quid, so I'm not getting Universal Credit payments anyway, as I no longer need it. However, this apparently doesn't stop the Jobcentre vultures stalking you! I'll phone them up and remind them of course, but don't they think if I needed their help I would have already contacted them? It makes me sick the way they try and control you even when you're not claiming. At least they can't sanction my money if they're not giving me any. Feckin' eejits!



This sounds like someone at DWP has made a mistake. If you don't have a claim then no conditionality can apply. It sounds like you are earning above the threshold anyway.


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## LeytonCatLady (Mar 23, 2017)

I'll keep the letter until 31st March (last working day before the appointment) and phone them then. Being currently temp, I'm conscious it could end any time theoretically, so I won't be too quick to say "No, I don't need you" and then something happens and I find the opposite is true. 

I'm enjoying the job but I'm nervous every time a mistake is brought to my attention in case it's used as an excuse for not making me permanent. On the other hand, they're bringing in a lot of changes and everyone's fucking stuff up due to the confusion. I don't think this is the sort of company that would single me out for that, and logically, if I was going to be let go, I would have been by now; however I have been wrong before. 

We're all due to have monthly one to ones next week - my second since I've been there - and they pick two of your calls at random and score you. I always worry in case they pick my two shittest! In general, I've been told that I'm doing well, and I would hope if they had concerns about my general performance, they would take me aside and tell me that straightaway and not just save it for our monthly catch-ups.


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## roman94 (Apr 19, 2017)

I am on the sick for my anxiety .. my work coach is hell to me .. i have to have telephone appointments and yet she still wants me to come in to show my personal prescribed medications.. this can't be right can it ?.. she still wants me to use UCJ but i prefer to go on indeed much easier and i dont feel like im being spied on... can i ask UC to turn off my work search and carry on with telephone appointments?


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## Who PhD (Apr 29, 2017)

roman94 said:


> I am on the sick for my anxiety .. my work coach is hell to me .. i have to have telephone appointments and yet she still wants me to come in to show my personal prescribed medications.. this can't be right can it ?.. she still wants me to use UCJ but i prefer to go on indeed much easier and i dont feel like im being spied on... can i ask UC to turn off my work search and carry on with telephone appointments?


telephone appointments? 

How do you manage to get those? 

Sorry to hear your 'work coach' (i hate these stupid monikers) is a wanker. 

I didn't think ESA claimants had to look for work.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 13, 2017)

I'm on JSA and have been told I need to record my job searching activities on Universal Jobmatch. Apparently I need to be looking for work for at least 35 hours a week, which is ridiculous. It takes a couple of hours a day, if that. 
Have the rules changed?


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm on JSA and have been told I need to record my job searching activities on Universal Jobmatch. Apparently I need to be looking for work for at least 35 hours a week, which is ridiculous. It takes a couple of hours a day, if that.
> Have the rules changed?



It is ridiculous. Handily, you can just make shit up, and they have no way of proving you didn't spend 4 hours searching for work/applications, plus another 3 hours travelling to and from a meeting with an agent. Just nod along and agree to do what they say, then do what you were gonna do anyway and tell them any old shit.  They're hardly gonna have the time to check any of it out.


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## Equilizer (Oct 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm on JSA and have been told I need to record my job searching activities on Universal Jobmatch. Apparently I need to be looking for work for at least 35 hours a week, which is ridiculous. It takes a couple of hours a day, if that.
> Have the rules changed?




You can show your job search activity in any way you choose as per their regs etc,however best to keep a note pad of any applications and web sites you visit as proof of.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 11, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Evening everyone.
> 
> Like lots of people, I have recently had the misfortune of becoming unemployed and needing to turn to the state for support - and I live in a UC area. The work coach has asked me a few times to record my jobsearch on my Universal Jobmatch account, which I am not happy to do as I have never allowed access. I quoted the regs at her which say claimants can record their jobsearch activity however they choose. Her favourite retort is "Well that was Jobseekers' Allowance, this is Universal Credit!"
> 
> ...


I’ve recently been made redundant after 17 years in retailing (delayed claim) and on UC and my question is what is the minimum number of jobs per day, every day that you are required to apply for each day?


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## purenarcotic (Jan 11, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> I’ve recently been made redundant after 17 years in retailing (delayed claim) and on UC and my question is what is the minimum number of jobs per day, every day that you are required to apply for each day?



This should be agreed between you and your job coach when you sign the claimant commitment. If you don’t know it’s best to message your work coach to check this.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 11, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> That's cool Weltweit. I'm genuinely glad to hear you've had a hassle free time with them and they haven't used your UJM against you. Unfortunately, I never really know where I am with this particular coach - she can be friendly and encouraging one day, plain arsey the next. I can't afford to trust her.
> 
> For anyone else who's uncomfortable about allowing access, I have done a little more digging and the fact they can't make _UC _claimants give access is also confirmed in paragraph 10 of ADM Memo 15/16. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/534893/adm15-16.pdf
> And in case your coach says "But the rules have changed!", the current regs I quoted in the OP were updated and are valid as of October 2016.


I don’t mind about this, but trying to plan out a timetable for each days job search and job applications is both scary and a nightmare, making sure that you have put in enough job applications for each day


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 11, 2020)

purenarcotic said:


> This should be agreed between you and your job coach when you sign the claimant commitment. If you don’t know it’s best to message your work coach to check this.


Before Christmas, I was trying to understand the UC system, having had UC password issues (for which I had no real help from the JC or the helpline) and the various jobsearch websites, which I did do a lot of searching, CV uploads but come the new year, although the job coach was OK enough as I had attended an interview she did say that within a certain period the number of job applications as recorded were not sufficiently acceptable, even though I’m mainly going for supermarket store Assistant positions


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 11, 2020)

Hi Irish353.109 ! Thanks for posting. I was briefly on UC last year just after they'd scrapped Universal Jobmatch and replaced it with the new Journal. Sometimes you've got to apply for any old crap to make up your numbers. Here's what I did daily in order to satisfy my coach:

1 job a day from Find a Job (current name of government jobsite)
1 job a day from any public sector jobsite
1 job a day from any other website (I'll give you a list in a separate post)
At least four separate employers of your own choosing (could be an agency or a direct company you like the look of)
Make a note to call each one in a week's time if you haven't heard back  (only do this if you know they won't mind taking chase-up calls or if it's just a "filler" job!)

List each thing you do, including callbacks, as a separate action to make your list longer. Also wait until the end of the working day to log what you've done. This is to save you having to edit from "awaiting reply" to "confirmed receipt", and also so your coach has no way of knowing what time you actually did it or how long it would've taken you, and therefore makes it harder for them to micromanage you. Personally, I was asked to come in and see my coach fortnightly, and as long as I followed the above strategy, my list of stuff I'd done in the intervening period was long enough that he didn't bother reading through it all and would just say "Keep up the good work and see you in two weeks' time!" Sometimes it was even longer than that.

Good luck and let us know if you need further help or advice.


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 11, 2020)

JOB WEBSITES I USED:

Allthetopbananas.com
Britishjobs.net
Broadbean.co.uk
Clickajob.co.uk
Cv-library.co.uk
Find a Job (most recent/current version of DWP site, was asked to use it daily)
Fish4jobs.co.uk
Guardian.co.uk/jobs
Gumtree.com
Indeed.co.uk
Jobisjob.co.uk
Jobit.co.uk
Jobrapido.co.uk
Jobserve.com
Jobsgopublic.com
Jobsite.co.uk
Monsterjobs.com
Reed.co.uk
Tiptopjobs.co.uk
Totaljobs.com


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 11, 2020)

Thanks very much - at my age, I do stress about this and struggle to find the motivation, as I live alone and go back home but I also find the whole system scary after being bullied out of a career change while in my last job some years before my redundancy, bankruptcy and homelessness when I first came to this country some years before that, but the current system (17 years later) is now much worse, even though I agree with the concept of it in principle, you are still made to feel such a criminal and a fraud, they won’t help you if you run into password issues like I did (after (I do admit) trying to fill out the online form on my own and (not) in my local council’s employment centre’s computers before my redundancy date without supervision, even though I have online access from home in my council flat) - I’m still waiting to hear back from one supermarket after applying for 3 jobs with them and having attended interview for one of these jobs (all recorded in the online journal) - I do think that the experience of redundancy does affect your ability to think clearly, rationally and in a common sense way, which my advice to anyone facing this is to (physically) go down to your local council housing office and tell them what is going on, as soon as you become aware of even a possible redundancy and keep them informed of the ongoing situation, preferably “with someone there” especially if you are living alone, regardless of any redundancy payments or any possible transfers to other stores within your company, as councils are usually in a better position to help to put people in touch with relevant help, even aside from the “exercise of personal responsibility” regarding UC applying for jobs and other jobsearch activity - the other thing that helps is having a daily timetable of what you are going to do each day in jobsearch activity, including applying for at least 7 jobs per day as mentioned in your previous post


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 11, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> JOB WEBSITES I USED:
> 
> Allthetopbananas.com
> Britishjobs.net
> ...


Thanks very much - I’ve listed the ones that I did know about, as well as setting up alerts via email on Google - I’m guessing that in each day from 9am to 6pm, you are required at the very least, to apply for at least 7 jobs each day


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 11, 2020)

I mean technically, yeah. But the 35 hours you spend can be done when you want. What I did was, if I had an appointment with my job coach say, mid-afternoon, I'd type it up before I left the house, so he'd know I looked that day. But he never asked me how long it took or exactly what time I'd done each thing. If he had, I'd have told him I was up at 06:00 searching. Most of them don't care, and it's none of their business as long as you're keeping a record. More than that though, if they spent time analysing how long each claimant spent on their weekly/fortnightly activity, they'd get nothing else done! I'm sure every Jobcentre has one or two Rottweilers who'd love to have us all on electronic tags, but as being unemployed isn't a crime yet, you have rights on your side.

As someone advised me upthread - and I know it's easier said than done - don't let the bastards get you down. Be polite, but not too friendly, no matter how nice they seem to you. Just stick to the questions they ask you, and don't give away more than you need to.


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## weltweit (Jan 11, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> ..
> I’m guessing that in each day from 9am to 6pm, you are required at the very least, to apply for at least 7 jobs each day


I wasn't expected to apply for a given number of jobs per day, it was accepted that I would / could apply for jobs which were a good fit for my background and where it was likely I could make progress. I think they want to see that you are making a decent effort in your job search.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 12, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> I mean technically, yeah. But the 35 hours you spend can be done when you want. What I did was, if I had an appointment with my job coach say, mid-afternoon, I'd type it up before I left the house, so he'd know I looked that day. But he never asked me how long it took or exactly what time I'd done each thing. If he had, I'd have told him I was up at 06:00 searching. Most of them don't care, and it's none of their business as long as you're keeping a record. More than that though, if they spent time analysing how long each claimant spent on their weekly/fortnightly activity, they'd get nothing else done! I'm sure every Jobcentre has one or two Rottweilers who'd love to have us all on electronic tags, but as being unemployed isn't a crime yet, you have rights on your side.
> 
> As someone advised me upthread - and I know it's easier said than done - don't let the bastards get you down. Be polite, but not too friendly, no matter how nice they seem to you. Just stick to the questions they ask you, and don't give away more than you need to.


I blame myself for not having the right attitudes of common sense and maturity at age 49 to (physically) go down to my local council housing office in North Manchester, preferably with someone from my previous supermarket employer well in advance of my date of redundancy on 29th Sept last, regardless of any internal transfer vacancies in the U.K. or Ireland and instead, doing the online claim for UC credit with supervision on thier computers, where they have help there and deal with this every day, especially because I live alone, even though I have internet access at home (when I tried to do the claim on my own, I now can only access my UC on my Chromebook, as it “swallowed” the password, not on this iPad or any other computer - and thier password reset link did not work, even after going into the jobcentre and ringing the helpline) - I now realise that my ability to think clearly and rationally was seriously compromised by not doing so - I do fully realise and fully accept that I am coming across to them as being irresponsible and immature and not serious about wanting to take up a job (any job, no matter how unsuitable) and I need to grow up and “cop on to myself” and maybe being “positive” does mean “shutting up” being more mature and responsible, given my over 20 years (not by choice) supermarket experience - I’ve learned throughout my life and according to what has been suggested to me over the years that I am the sort of person who needs to be “bullied” “for my own good” and I would have to accept that


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 12, 2020)

No one needs to be bullied for their own good, that's just what control freaks will tell you.  I'm sorry you've been subject to that shite. 

And I've ranted about this before, but if the Jobcentre insist on pushing you into any old job, even if you have no experience in it, the employer will be pissed off, and even if they do take you on, they'll probably let you go after a few days if you're not picking it up due to lack of experience. That's happened to me before. Most of my jobs were call centre or office based, and my coach at the time gave me a job at Shake Shack to apply for, saying it was mandatory. I got the job but was let go after three days for "not being the right fit". And the coach had the cheek to get arsey with me about it like that was my fault. What did she think was going to happen? If she'd bothered to read my CV, she could have saved everyone the hassle.


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

I don't really understand people's objection to sharing an UJM record with their job centre advisor. I just recorded every smallest thing that I did which always made it more impressive than it was. Then at my 2 weekly meetings my advisor would look at it, hum and harr and on we would go. 

What I am saying is I don't see what harm it did for me?


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 12, 2020)

I think it was the Big Brother-ishness of UJM. No one objects to sharing a record of jobsearching activities, it was allowing the adviser 24 hour access to it. It's easily misused. What if you were ill one day and didn't log in? Or if you went out to go to an interview and didn't sign in because of that? An adviser who's unscrupulous could potentially use that as an excuse to sanction you with no questions asked.

The new UC Journal which replaced UJM can also be accessed at any time, but it's not timestamped in the same way, and doesn't seem to have the same technical issues with crashing and losing what you've put (which happened to me in my UJM days). It's not about sharing your records with your adviser, it's the principle of the thing. Being unemployed doesn't give them the right to spy on you in real time.


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## nogojones (Jan 12, 2020)

Whenever I've applied for a job that I want (or need) over the last 20 years I've spent at least a day on the application. Do they want you to get a job or just pretend that you're applying for jobs?  

Well, I think I know thw answer to that question really


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

Oh, ok. I doubt my advisor would have had time to look into mine when I wasn't there, he always seemed to be pretty snowed under.

The only time I had an issue was when I told him I was away for a couple of days but would still be job hunting while away. He got quite excited and made me sign all sorts of forms about absence etc I didn't really understand the issue.


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

nogojones said:


> Whenever I've applied for a job that I want (or need) over the last 20 years I've spent at least a day on the application. ..


Yes, I am the same.


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 12, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Oh, ok. I doubt my advisor would have had time to look into mine when I wasn't there, he always seemed to be pretty snowed under.
> 
> The only time I had an issue was when I told him I was away for a couple of days but would still be job hunting while away. He got quite excited and made me sign all sorts of forms about absence etc I didn't really understand the issue.


Yeah, that's bizarre to me. I remember the first time I claimed JSA in 2008 and reading over the terms and conditions, which included "You must tell us if you are away from home, even if it's only for a day". How do they define "away from home"? Out of London, or out of the specific borough where I lived? They'd be going crazy if I updated them every time I left the boundaries of Waltham Forest!


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

IIRC he was most excited that they might not be able to contact me. I said but you only have a mobile number for me, I only have a mobile!!


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 12, 2020)

It's a long time since I was on the dole, but can you still get away with recording time wandering round town as job seeking on the basis you're looking for vacancy adverts in shop windows?

Or do they expect you to do it all online now?

Likewise, you could get away with having the occasional few days away so long as I went in to the job centre and read some local papers when i was there (extending the job search beyond local area).   Now it's all online, that might not be so easy...


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 12, 2020)

Puddy_Tat said:


> It's a long time since I was on the dole, but can you still get away with recording time wandering round town as job seeking on the basis you're looking for vacancy adverts in shop windows?
> 
> Or do they expect you to do it all online now?
> 
> Likewise, you could get away with having the occasional few days away so long as I went in to the job centre and read some local papers when i was there (extending the job search beyond local area).   Now it's all online, that might not be so easy...


I believe anything you do counts. Lots of independent businesses still accept paper CVs, for example, so they can't really reject that because it's not "modern" enough. At least, no one expressed disapproval on my last UC stint.


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

Puddy_Tat I could have gotten away with walking about and looking for sure, especially if I had copies of my CV with me to hand out.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 12, 2020)

weltweit said:


> @Puddy_Tat I could have gotten away with walking about and looking for sure, especially if I had copies of my CV with me to hand out.



or if you're supposed to do x number of hours a week, dropping in and asking for an application form, then going back the next day with CV if that's what they want would take a bit more time...


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

I don't know how much one gets on UC? but I considered it a not inconsiderable achievement to live, eat and continue to run a car while on JSA.


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 12, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I don't know how much one gets on UC? but I considered it a not inconsiderable achievement to live, eat and continue to run a car while on JSA.



Same amount you get on JSA, but monthly. I'm impressed you could run a car on it!


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## weltweit (Jan 12, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Same amount you get on JSA, but monthly. I'm impressed you could run a car on it!


It was very tight.


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## existentialist (Jan 13, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I don't really understand people's objection to sharing an UJM record with their job centre advisor. I just recorded every smallest thing that I did which always made it more impressive than it was. Then at my 2 weekly meetings my advisor would look at it, hum and harr and on we would go.
> 
> What I am saying is I don't see what harm it did for me?


Because today it's your job search, tomorrow it's your social media, how much you're spending on booze and fags, and "...your girlfriend seems to be around rather a lot lately ". 

These bastards abuse. They trick you into giving away your freedoms, and then they trick you some more. Why even start down the slippery slope?


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 13, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Yeah, that's bizarre to me. I remember the first time I claimed JSA in 2008 and reading over the terms and conditions, which included "You must tell us if you are away from home, even if it's only for a day". How do they define "away from home"? Out of London, or out of the specific borough where I lived? They'd be going crazy if I updated them every time I left the boundaries of Waltham Forest!


In fairness, my job coach did tell me that if I was going home to my family in Ireland from Manchester (usually no more than 5 days on the SailRail via Holyhead & Dublin back to my home County in Rural Ireland) that I would need to notify her via a message on the journal (I last claimed the old JSA in 2002) but something very odd happened earlier today - she cancelled my jobcentre appointment, originally for early morning in person and then rearranged a telephone interview for late afternoon, as she was going to be away from her desk - I’m waiting to hear back from one supermarket employer following an interview on 27 Dec (as they usually start hiring towards the end of Jan and into Feb & March) so went on all the supermarket websites to apply online, except the supermarket that I was originally made redundant from (they are advertising all of our old jobs on the job sites as a ton of us were made redundant) as I’m not allowed to do so for a certain amount of time (6 months?) - but is having a telephone appointment or interview a good or bad thing these days?


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## weltweit (Jan 13, 2020)

Hi Irish353.109 a telephone interview is a fine first screening process in a job hunt. The only trouble if you could call it that is you have to prepare as much for a phone interview as you would for a face to face one. But I suppose you being from the supermarket world will probably not have worries on that front.

Why do you have to wait 6 months before applying to your previous employer? I haven't come across that before. 

Best of luck with it.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 13, 2020)

existentialist said:


> Because today it's your job search, tomorrow it's your social media, how much you're spending on booze and fags, and "...your girlfriend seems to be around rather a lot lately ".
> 
> These bastards abuse. They trick you into giving away your freedoms, and then they trick you some more. Why even start down the slippery slope?


I think that I do agree, whether it’s Tories, Labour or others (I’ve heard the Tories are full of lefties) and I‘ve seen it at my last supermarket with social media policies regardless of whether or not they have everything online and regardless of whether or not you have internet access from home or on mobile devices (I was also bullied online via social media out of a career change, for having to go home in 2009 to attend my Mum’s funeral in Ireland and a transfer between stores within my last company a few years ago, before my redundancy)


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 13, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Hi Irish353.109 a telephone interview is a fine first screening process in a job hunt. The only trouble if you could call it that is you have to prepare as much for a phone interview as you would for a face to face one. But I suppose you being from the supermarket world will probably not have worries on that front.
> 
> Why do you have to wait 6 months before applying to your previous employer? I haven't come across that before.
> 
> Best of luck with it.


...sorry I should have clarified that it was my job coach that is doing the telephone appointment rather than the normal face to face meeting at the jobcentre - as for the 6 month ban on applying for a job with the same company following a redundancy, I dont get it myself either - I would have accepted a transfer to another store, either in the UK or Ireland but none was available to any of us that was made redundant in Sept and they very quickly advertised our jobs out after we left, just before Christmas, which was unusual for our (very busy) City Centre store to make us redundant given our level of experience and length of service


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## weltweit (Jan 13, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> ...sorry I should have clarified that it was my job coach that is doing the telephone appointment rather than the normal face to face meeting at the jobcentre


My misunderstanding sorry.


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 13, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> In fairness, my job coach did tell me that if I was going home to my family in Ireland from Manchester (usually no more than 5 days on the SailRail via Holyhead & Dublin back to my home County in Rural Ireland) that I would need to notify her via a message on the journal (I last claimed the old JSA in 2002) but something very odd happened earlier today - she cancelled my jobcentre appointment, originally for early morning in person and then rearranged a telephone interview for late afternoon, as she was going to be away from her desk - I’m waiting to hear back from one supermarket employer following an interview on 27 Dec (as they usually start hiring towards the end of Jan and into Feb & March) so went on all the supermarket websites to apply online, except the supermarket that I was originally made redundant from (they are advertising all of our old jobs on the job sites as a ton of us were made redundant) as I’m not allowed to do so for a certain amount of time (6 months?) - but is having a telephone appointment or interview a good or bad thing these days?


No idea about the phone interview as I never had one - just make sure you stand by your phone on the day!


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 13, 2020)

weltweit said:


> My misunderstanding sorry.


Regardless of this, From now on, I need to cut the nonsense, I need to grow up, I need to “cop on to myself” I need to display maturity, I need to take responsibility for the consequences of my actions (and failure to act correctly) and properly search for and apply for at least 7 jobs a day, every day, in every Mon-Fri period regardless of suitability or distance and properly record these job applications in the journal - this is why I’m going down to a local council run job place that has computers and help with such things as timetabling, as I do admit to myself that I have not been doing so because I live alone (and in the infinite wisdom of others should not be)


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 13, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> they are advertising all of our old jobs on the job sites as a ton of us were made redundant



that sounds more than a little bit dubious.

i'm a bit pushed for time this evening, but this (from citizens advice) may be worth a read.      or this (from ACAS) - ACAS also have a phone helpline that any employer or employee can call for advice without needing to give full names and all that sort of thing.

or of course your union if you are still a member (i know it's a bit patchy in retail - tends to be chicken and egg, union representation is low which means the union doesn't have a lot of clout which means people don't bother joining and so on)



Irish353.109 said:


> as I’m not allowed to do so for a certain amount of time (6 months?)



says who?  is this a company rule or what?  this (more an advice service for HR people) does not say anything of the sort - it does recommend a two week break so that it's clear the re-employment is a new period of employment.

(all the above subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, most certainly not an HR person, and it's quite a long time since i was a union rep)


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 13, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> No idea about the phone interview as I never had one - just make sure you stand by your phone on the day!


How do you plan your day to ensure that you apply for the correct amount of jobs each day eg search at 9am, find & apply by 12 noon, record in the evening


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## existentialist (Jan 13, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> Regardless of this, From now on, I need to cut the nonsense, I need to grow up, I need to “cop on to myself” I need to display maturity, I need to take responsibility for the consequences of my actions (and failure to act correctly) and properly search for and apply for at least 7 jobs a day, every day, in every Mon-Fri period regardless of suitability or distance and properly record these job applications in the journal - this is why I’m going down to a local council run job place that has computers and help with such things as timetabling, as I do admit to myself that I have not been doing so because I live alone (and in the infinite wisdom of others should not be)


One of the unintended consequences of this rather shit DWP policy is that it forces people into a situation where they need to spend more effort *demonstrating* that they're applying for jobs than actually devoting the time and energy to focused efforts to apply for jobs they actually want, and can do.

Ultimately - as ever - this idiotic approach, in trying to catch out the lead swingers from "just getting paid benefits to skive", actually achieves far less - it ensures that employers are swamped with totally unsuitable applications from people who're never going to get the job, and forces genuine job seekers into a kind of brutal charade of jobhunting. From what I gather, this extends to the various workshops and job coaching sessions they do, too...


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## weltweit (Jan 13, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> ..
> properly search for and apply for at least 7 jobs a day, every day, in every Mon-Fri period regardless of suitability or distance and properly record these job applications in the journal ..


If you are set on applying for so many you will need to keep a good record, otherwise it is quite likely you will end up applying for the same job more than once. I used to do a phone follow up a day or so after each application to confirm at least that my target did receive my application. You would be surprised the number of times they denied having received it.


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 13, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> How do you plan your day to ensure that you apply for the correct amount of jobs each day eg search at 9am, find & apply by 12 noon, record in the evening


That's pretty much how I did it, yeah. No one can do 35 hours a week without reapplying! As someone said above, keep a list of employers you've applied to. Doesn't need to be a spreadsheet, just a Word document or even Notepad, so you can arrange them alphabetically and add to it daily.


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 13, 2020)

Also Irish353.109 , you are being pretty hard on yourself. Try not to be. I know being unemployed isn't fun, and going to the Jobcentre feels shit, especially if you're going through that for the first time. But you seem to be doing all the right things to find work, and you come across as a decent, responsible guy. You're not some scrounger who needs a kick up the arse just because your job ended, as much as the Daily Fail and Tories peddle propaganda to that effect. If a friend or family member came to you for advice on similar, I'm sure you wouldn't be telling them to cop on to themselves or tell them they've failed to act correctly, would you? No, so please try and be kinder to yourself, because you're a good person and you deserve kindness and patience as much as anyone. You're not immature or a failure, you're just an ordinary decent bloke who was made redundant. 

It's not always easy, but please try not to put yourself down!


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 13, 2020)

what LeytonCatLady said.

ultimately, it's about jumping through the hoops with just enough enthusiasm not to get sanctioned, even if you know what you're doing is pointless.

don't let the bastards* grind you down

* - not that _all_ DWP staff are bastards, it's just that it helps, and if they aren't, they tend to get 'performance managed' for not meeting their targets for sanctions that month...


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## weltweit (Jan 14, 2020)

And just by the way, because job seekers are encouraged to make loads of job applications the advertisers are usually swamped with CVs most of which they know have no chance of being shortlisted for the job, because of that swamping, you have to do something special to get your own CV looked at in the first place. 

For me this was my phone call follow up, Hi this is weltweit I just want to confirm that you received my CV yesterday, my email address is weltweit@gmail.com .. Can you see it in your intray? Yes, are you able to tell me if I have a chance of being shortlisted? and when should I call again to find out?


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 14, 2020)

weltweit said:


> And just by the way, because job seekers are encouraged to make loads of job applications the advertisers are usually swamped with CVs most of which they know have no chance of being shortlisted for the job, because of that swamping, you have to do something special to get your own CV looked at in the first place.
> 
> For me this was my phone call follow up, Hi this is weltweit I just want to confirm that you received my CV yesterday, my email address is weltweit@gmail.com .. Can you see it in your intray? Yes, are you able to tell me if I have a chance of being shortlisted? and when should I call again to find out?


Thank you for the support - as detailed by previous posters, as a consequence of my own (which I fully accept and admit) imprudent actions and behaviour well before my redundancy date as soon as I became aware of my (then) impending redundancy, after reading through the links provided in full (and the related links within those links), I realised that, given that it was a supermarket employer that I was made redundant from, where I accept without question that all of the correct procedures were in fact followed, I obviously would “not have a leg to stand on” and not be in any position to challenge the legality or fairness of my redundancy in any way, given also that I had initially had considered moving back to Ireland and as part of that process, they were trying to find vacancies for internal transfer to Irish locations of the company from the U.K., not U.K. vacancies and there was no USDAW union rep available for any of these redundancy meetings, but the Irish relocation plan fell through - I’m trying to get structure and timetabling done via a council run place to make sure that I am applying for 7 jobs a day in every day Mon - Fri to avoid sanction on top of all the other jobsearch activity which must be recorded in the journal - I’m thinking of broadening my search beyond the supermarkets too, onto trains for one, as some people left our store to work for various train companies - at one of these meetings that I had with the council help people today, the MABS advisor that because I got £17,000 in the redundancy payment (another reason for not attempting to complete the UC application alone without council staff supervision) where there was no space that I could see to declare this on the form (and where the jobcentre were not interested in seeing documentation after the event of filling in the form, so it became “undeclared income”) I was warned that at some point in the future that the jobcentre could (quite rightly) demand repayment of all UC already made and in any case, I admit that I had some problems with my previous employer in previous years over attempted internal transfers to other local UK and Irish stores at various points, attempts to career change out of retail (including to become cabin crew - very long and difficult story, got conned out of a lot of money, had a lot of passionate opposition to it and bullying against it too, final outcome was I stopped even flying as a passenger, despite bullying attempts to force me to do so, as I was openly ridiculed, painted as negative, a whinger and a moaner, as wrong for even trying, but then being gay, I should be used to such bullying) - returning to my Catholic faith a few years ago was the best thing I ever did and having nuns back home praying for me in Dublin who are fully aware of my  current situation here does help too


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 15, 2020)

Puddy_Tat said:


> what LeytonCatLady said.
> 
> ultimately, it's about jumping through the hoops with just enough enthusiasm not to get sanctioned, even if you know what you're doing is pointless.
> 
> ...


I was also warned in a meeting on Tues 14 Jan with the Council MABS Service advisor about my redundancy pay which is currently regarded as “undeclared other income” (another reason for not filling in the UC form on your own without help from council staff) that the jobcentre could (at any point in the future) demand the full amount of the redundancy payment of £17,000 and not just the total amount of all UC already paid since the claim was opened and that if this happens, I would have no way of challenging this, plus I could also be prosecuted for benefit fraud if I attempted to do so, even after (or if) I do get a job, I was also told by the advisor that they now have new legal powers to freeze bank accounts and take payments from any wages at any potential new job if they find details of any (other undeclared income) from a previous employer relating to that claim, such as shares etc - I did explain that I found nowhere on the form to declare this income and when I raised this at the jobcentre, they were not interested - I have been bankrupt before which I told them, but even an expired bankruptcy still counts for this


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 15, 2020)

Irish353.109  That's a good idea about train companies. Anything where you'll be working with the public is nice and similar to retail experience. 

Sorry to hear you've been ill treated for being gay though. I don't think that's something anyone should have to get used to, Catholic or not.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 15, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> That's pretty much how I did it, yeah. No one can do 35 hours a week without reapplying! As someone said above, keep a list of employers you've applied to. Doesn't need to be a spreadsheet, just a Word document or even Notepad, so you can arrange them alphabetically and add to it daily.


This is the very reason that I need to be (physically) going down to my council job search place every Mon -Fri and using both thier computers to search and apply, this IPad for thier emails on thier wifi and my Chromebook on thier WiFi to properly record what I’m doing, as the council MABS advisor also warned me about today


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 15, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> where I accept without question that all of the correct procedures were in fact followed



I wouldn't bet on it.   Some of the big retailers have lost employment cases (the one that took the piss with holiday pay springs to mind) Not going to do you any harm to talk to ACAS.  Think there is a time limit after the event for taking something to an employment tribunal, though.



Irish353.109 said:


> I’m thinking of broadening my search beyond the supermarkets too, onto trains for one



there are certainly worse rackets to be in - and (as things currently stand) still comes with a respectable pension scheme.  although a few of the train companies are currently trying to get rid of people, and the government have made noises about attacking the pension scheme.  which isn't going to go without a fight...

be aware that while train operating franchises come and go (and there are some rumblings about a couple being on the brink of going bust), the front line staff generally just transfer to the new franchise company and get a new set of fancy dress.

with some of the train companies, the 'entry level' is via agencies for platform staff (don't know where you are so can't offer any particular pointers) but this is useful experience when permanent jobs come up.

while some of it is a bit train-spottery, there is a section on www.railforums.co.uk for job hunting, you may be able to pick up some advice on there.

there can be quite a lot of competition for jobs on the railways as a lot of people who want to be train drivers go for the station based jobs to 'get in the door'

a lot of train companies (and TFL / Underground) do 'competency based' selection / interviews, where they ask you to give an example of a time you did X, so there are probably examples of things you did in retail that would be very valid.

(i do buses rather than trains, but do know a few people in that line of country)

may also be worth thinking about things like airport staff (if you're anywhere near an airport) and for that matter there may well be seasonal customer services jobs at coach stations and so on coming up in a month or two.

by the way have you seen this thread - do drop in sometime if you want



Irish353.109 said:


> I was warned that at some point in the future that the jobcentre could (quite rightly) demand repayment of all UC already made



i'm a bit fuzzy on universal credit, but fairly certain this would only be if you had made a false declaration.  i think i am still right in saying that with job seekers' version of UC, the first 6 months of entitlement is based solely on your recent years' national insurance contributions.  after that (or if you haven't paid enough NI) then it is 'means tested' and having more than a certain amount of ready-ish money to your name would limit or possibly disqualify you from getting anything.   if you're claiming housing / council tax benefit, that is means tested from day one.   (it used to be that if you had 16K to your name, then you were ruled out of means tested benefits, but I'm a bit out of date with it all.) 

if they asked you for proof of 'capital' (i.e. savings etc) then yes you should declare whatever savings account your redundancy pay is in.  if they don't then it's not relevant.  



Irish353.109 said:


> that the jobcentre could (at any point in the future) demand the full amount of the redundancy payment of £17,000



I don't believe that for a minute.  I think someone has got in a tangle.


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 15, 2020)

Regarding the redundancy money, I think you can declare it through your journal, under "Report a change of circumstances". Make a note that the original claim forms didn't have a space for you to include it.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 15, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Irish353.109  That's a good idea about train companies. Anything where you'll be working with the public is nice and similar to retail experience.
> 
> Sorry to hear you've been ill treated for being gay though. I don't think that's something anyone should have to get used to, Catholic or not.


One thing that I have noticed with some supermarkets (some more than others) is that they do online tests, that if you fail that test, you are at various stages, in some cases, prevented from going any further with your application and you cannot apply to that supermarket again for at least 3, 6, or 12 months, even if you have uploaded a CV to your online job account with them - this includes ASDA, Lidl, Aldi, Co-op, Sainsbury’s, Tesco and others - the only one that does not do so (currently) is Morrison’s and some other retail companies are doing this too - it’s very rare these days that retail shops do (not) recruit online only, the bigger companies (only) recruit online


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 15, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> One thing that I have noticed with some supermarkets (some more than others) is that they do online tests, that if you fail that test, you are at various stages, in some cases, prevented from going any further with your application and you cannot apply to that supermarket again for at least 3, 6, or 12 months, even if you have uploaded a CV to your online job account with them - this includes ASDA, Lidl, Aldi, Co-op, Sainsbury’s, Tesco and others - the only one that does not do so (currently) is Morrison’s and some other retail companies are doing this too - it’s very rare these days that retail shops do (not) recruit online only, the bigger companies (only) recruit online


My advice then would be to broaden your search - include things like department stores, pubs, clothes shops etc. And don't be afraid to try smaller independent retailers! Good luck.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 17, 2020)

nogojones said:


> Whenever I've applied for a job that I want (or need) over the last 20 years I've spent at least a day on the application. Do they want you to get a job or just pretend that you're applying for jobs?
> 
> Well, I think I know thw answer to that question really


I’m beginning to think that they want you to pretend to apply for jobs, which are the same vacancies posted on multiple websites and reposted - trying to apply any filters as to location, distance, relevance, etc is useless, they don’t work and even if you get job alerts by email it’s the same thing - I’ve had totally non-relevant jobs in Manchester alone, even within 10 miles of my postcode and then any relevant retail vacancies are in London, but for one of many examples - I’m trying to take this seriously but when you see the way that sites and agencies share vacancy details with each other, its a joke, even when you upload your CV for job matches to these sites


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## nogojones (Jan 17, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> I’m beginning to think that they want you to pretend to apply for jobs, which are the same vacancies posted on multiple websites and reposted - trying to apply any filters as to location, distance, relevance, etc is useless, they don’t work and even if you get job alerts by email it’s the same thing - I’ve had totally non-relevant jobs in Manchester alone, even within 10 miles of my postcode and then any relevant retail vacancies are in London, but for one of many examples - I’m trying to take this seriously but when you see the way that sites and agencies share vacancy details with each other, its a joke, even when you upload your CV for job matches to these sites


I've never had to use this, but the idea from what I know is this will apply for all the shit jobs automatically, just to keep the DWP sweet, whilst you invest your real time in applying for jobs that are relevant.





__





						Universal Automation
					

Universal Automation is a Chrome browser extension that automatically searches and applies for jobs on Universal Jobmatch, the government-run job search website which benefit claimants are forced to use.The purpose of this project is to support the unemployed in their fight against the bullying...



					automation.strikenow.org.uk


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## Manter (Jan 17, 2020)

Puddy_Tat said:


> that sounds more than a little bit dubious.
> 
> i'm a bit pushed for time this evening, but this (from citizens advice) may be worth a read.      or this (from ACAS) - ACAS also have a phone helpline that any employer or employee can call for advice without needing to give full names and all that sort of thing.
> 
> ...


The 6 months is linked to redundancy. Redundancy payments are taxed differently for employee and employer, reemployment within a few months makes it look like it should have been a redeployment not an exit and so questions are raised by HMRC about whether it’s a tax dodge. In the 90s it was apparently common to terminate and rehire to reduce tax liability on bonuses, but I wasn’t working in those days so dunno


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 17, 2020)

nogojones said:


> I've never had to use this, but the idea from what I know is this will apply for all the shit jobs automatically, just to keep the DWP sweet, whilst you invest your real time in applying for jobs that are relevant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting and will have a look at this - does it work with the job applications part of the Universal Credit Page?


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 17, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> Interesting and will have a look at this - does it work with the job applications part of the Universal Credit Page?



Not tried it myself, but Universal Jobmatch has now been replaced by Find a Job, so you could try it on that. Let us know if you find it helpful!


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## nogojones (Jan 17, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> Interesting and will have a look at this - does it work with the job applications part of the Universal Credit Page?


I don't know. I've not used it or heard of any first hand accounts of using it. It looks like you can contact the developers via that page, so they might be able to help with any questions


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 18, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> My advice then would be to broaden your search - include things like department stores, pubs, clothes shops etc. And don't be afraid to try smaller independent retailers! Good luck.


agreed - and there are specialist retail recruitment agencies out there which I have emailed them with a copy of my CV as well - aside from the “taking personal responsibility” (which I get), it’s also so important not to do this on your own, asking anyone for help if you are struggling and not to try to just go on jobsearch websites (and jobsearch apps) alone, as I have also emailed a lot of train companies directly for ticket inspector, customer service oriented job roles both on platforms at stations and on board trains - I honestly don’t know how homeless people struggle with this if they have limited numeracy, literacy and hardly any IT skills, with a system that sets them (and us) up to fail, as even the main Universal Credit website is a Beta version - I’m not so much into the political side of things, but this is utter nonsense, with employers being swamped with unsuitable online applications so that genuine job applicants don’t stand a chance


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## weltweit (Jan 18, 2020)

Irish353.109 don't worry too much, if you are making a proper effort in your job hunt, and it sounds like you are, you will succeed - I think the greater the effort the shorter the time, or something like that


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 23, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Evening everyone.
> 
> Like lots of people, I have recently had the misfortune of becoming unemployed and needing to turn to the state for support - and I live in a UC area. The work coach has asked me a few times to record my jobsearch on my Universal Jobmatch account, which I am not happy to do as I have never allowed access. I quoted the regs at her which say claimants can record their jobsearch activity however they choose. Her favourite retort is "Well that was Jobseekers' Allowance, this is Universal Credit!"
> 
> ...


I would be in no position to argue any of this and I would benefit from vastly increased supervision and monitoring of all my jobsearch activity and online activity and I would freely give up all of my privacy rights and all other rights - a little “tough love” and bullying from my job coach would work wonders in making me wake up and grow up in doing the jobsearch as they want it done in thier way, as it is what they think and believe that matters, not what I think, as having been relentlessly bullied in the past “for my own good” this is exactly what I need now


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 23, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I don't mind giving them access to my UJM activities. I note everything I do as I do it, in a spreadsheet with the date, and it takes only a minute or two to upload to UJM. Letting them see my UJM seems to satisfy them in the fastest and easiest way.


It’s always good if everything you do is time stamped as well - how do you timetable each day of your jobsearch? If they see that you record your activity beyond a certain time of day/night they will ask questions and rightly so


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 23, 2020)

zippyRN said:


> Once again the blind spots  over the attitude  cycle rule the roost ...


I have come to realise that this is true in my case


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 23, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Happy belated New Year everybody. As this thread's been bumped, I thought I'd give you all an update.
> 
> My usual coach went on a month's annual leave from mid December to January, so I saw someone else, who actually listened to what I had to say and was reasonable. I showed him my written jobsearch record and he asked me if I'd considered writing it up in UJM. I explained my issues with allowing access, and the technical glitches I'd had with it. He just said that was fine as long as I was keeping a record of some description, and never brought it up again. It goes to show the answer will be different depending on which member of staff you're speaking to, which is why I like to keep up to date with the official regulations. It does feel as though each of them makes up rules as they go along.
> 
> ...


I have used UJM (now find a job) to apply for some roles and I got a callback straight away, so I might consider using it again, as it’s much easier to use than all the other websites (that have endless vacancy repostings) - it would be good for them too, to be able to more closely monitor my jobsearch activity and applications


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 23, 2020)

Chilli.s said:


> Someone should devise an app that does. Trawls job sites and notes what has or could have been applied for.


That would make it too easy, as the jobcentres have to make life as difficult as possible, as a reflection of the reality of life 

- I’m just back from a jobcentre appointment this morning and when I attempted to explain that I was doing all sorts of other things to look for work (although they did not say this “in so many words” while at the same time “banging on about” recording all of these jobsearch related activities in the journal) essentially, the only thing that they are only really interested in is seeing the 7 job applications per day in every Monday to Friday period - if there are any gaps in job applications of more than a day (aside from any other non-recorded jobsearch related activities) questions will be asked and you will be “sailing very close to the wind” in terms of sanctions and rightly so 

- personally, I’d give up all my rights to online privacy, (not just while on Universal Credit) and I could see the (positive) benefits of greatly enhanced  “bullying” (which I would benefit from) monitoring and (both) more intensive physical and online supervision as positive motivation, if it helped me to find a job more quickly, as I live alone (and should not be doing so anyway) 

- in the old days, the only way I found a job was being endlessly nagged and screamed at to “shut up and grow up“ when I was living at home 

- I do accept that I do need to be bullied “for my own good” in all aspects of life, regardless of the political or legal side of things, or even the problems with duplicate/fake vacancy issues (which is regarded by others as my making “negative” lame excuses for my failures)  as I do admit that I have not taken personal responsibility since my Sept (retailing) redundancy, I have not acted with true maturity and real common sense in reality - these are the harsh lessons of the reality of life that I have had to learn the hard way - and if as a consequence of my immature actions, a (richly deserved) sanction is imposed to make me wake up to reality and to “cop on to myself” so much the better


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 23, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> I mean, I have nothing against using UJM to _look _for work as long as the company have posted their direct contact details on there and it's not through a dodgy third-party recruiter (I worry about scams).
> 
> Regarding showing the Jobcentre my UJM content or giving them access, I don't like the Big Brother aspect of it, being monitored all the time. Makes me feel like a kid, or a criminal! When you're unemployed, you have very few rights as it is, so that makes me determined to hang on to the few legal rights I do have, such as privacy. So there's a principle involved.
> 
> ...


This is a lot different here in the U.K. in the present day, from the background that I came from in Rural Ireland, where I was raised a Catholic with the Priests and the Nuns, yet in one way, the system back then was (strangely) kinder and much easier, when back then one was clearly given to understand that one did not have any rights or entitlements to anything (save a good hard slap from the Priest, the Nun or the local Garda Seargant) - with today’s rights and entitlements culture and everything being online, on balance, things have been made much more difficult and I was just chatting about this the other day with a neighbour who has an understanding of the Irish culture that I grew up in, in the 1970’s & 1980’s Ireland, where in Rural Ireland, the Catholic Church was much more powerful than it is now (as I am both a Mass-going Catholic still over here in Manchester, even though I am also an older “out” Irish gay man)


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 27, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> I mean, I have nothing against using UJM to _look _for work as long as the company have posted their direct contact details on there and it's not through a dodgy third-party recruiter (I worry about scams).
> 
> Regarding showing the Jobcentre my UJM content or giving them access, I don't like the Big Brother aspect of it, being monitored all the time. Makes me feel like a kid, or a criminal! When you're unemployed, you have very few rights as it is, so that makes me determined to hang on to the few legal rights I do have, such as privacy. So there's a principle involved.
> 
> ...


Update - I’ve got additional support from my job coach with the Motiv8 programme, as I have been really struggling on my own with the jobsearch, so doing this on Thursday as I would benefit from more intensive 121 - I thought (wrongly) that my IT skills were up to scratch, but obviously not - this is on top of the support that I go to, in the council run computer place near me, because I live alone, in a socially deprived area of Manchester 

this experience had taught me that the council are correct in thier (tacit) disapproval of council tenants living alone without (mandatory) tenancy support (of various types) as a basic part of the tenancy agreement, regardless of any other factors, such as personal resilience, property size, individual personal circumstances or anything else, as even if a tenant has internet access from home, attempting the jobsearch when living alone is very difficult, even at home, regardless of IT skills levels, is always considered a bad idea by council staff and the same applies with apps on an iPad, which again I thought (wrongly) was going to be a good idea, which again the council staff in the computer place have strongly advised that they do not approve of the use of such jobsearch apps 

- it sounds easy at first glance, but in actuality it is anything but a case of “go and look” as some unsympathetic people (who point-blank refuse to understand these issues) have suggested - it used to be the case that you could hand in your CV into some places, but not any more, it’s all online, which some people refuse to understand - then when you do, the supermarkets have these online tests before allowing an application to proceed - and some of these other jobsearch websites throw back totally irrelevant results with job types, distance etc, in direct searches, not to mention the job alerts by email - I spent yesterday evening emailing my CV to all the most suitable recruitment agencies in Manchester, having already done so to all of the jobsearch websites (and thier useless jobmatch software) because all my efforts to date have been fruitless, so I am beginning to wonder if I am doing something wrong, then you run into problems with some websites as well


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 27, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> I spent yesterday evening emailing my CV to all the most suitable recruitment agencies in Manchester, having already done so to all of the jobsearch websites (and thier useless jobmatch software) because all my efforts to date have been fruitless, so I am beginning to wonder if I am doing something wrong, then you run into problems with some websites as well



If you've got access to additional support, has anyone else had a look at your CV and said what they think?  There's a lot of (in many cases conflicting) advice out there about the 'right' way to put a CV together, but what's seen as best practice does change from time to time (and if you're looking for advice on the internet, also from one country to another - so advice on - for example- an american website may not be so much help.)

It's also often worth having a basic CV on the shelf (or the computer), but tailoring it a bit depending on what sort of job you're going for, what particular experience / skills you're trying to sell to this employer (based on what the job advert etc says they are looking for) - my inner weasel says that tweaking it each time also takes up time towards however many hours a week you're supposed to spend jumping through hoops.  just make sure you keep a copy of the one you've sent in a way that you'll find it (e.g. separate folder on computer for each job) so you can remember exactly what you've told that employer.

As I think has already been said, the way people on UC are forced to apply for so many jobs, i guess employers get overloaded with applications / CVs and not sure how the heck they even start to sift for generalist jobs (I was pretty unsuccessful a few years back when I was going after general admin sort of jobs - I've ended up back in something more specialised but it takes a while for that sort of job and in the sort of patch I'm in to come up.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 27, 2020)

Puddy_Tat said:


> If you've got access to additional support, has anyone else had a look at your CV and said what they think?  There's a lot of (in many cases conflicting) advice out there about the 'right' way to put a CV together, but what's seen as best practice does change from time to time (and if you're looking for advice on the internet, also from one country to another - so advice on - for example- an american website may not be so much help.)
> 
> It's also often worth having a basic CV on the shelf (or the computer), but tailoring it a bit depending on what sort of job you're going for, what particular experience / skills you're trying to sell to this employer (based on what the job advert etc says they are looking for) - my inner weasel says that tweaking it each time also takes up time towards however many hours a week you're supposed to spend jumping through hoops.  just make sure you keep a copy of the one you've sent in a way that you'll find it (e.g. separate folder on computer for each job) so you can remember exactly what you've told that employer.
> 
> As I think has already been said, the way people on UC are forced to apply for so many jobs, i guess employers get overloaded with applications / CVs and not sure how the heck they even start to sift for generalist jobs (I was pretty unsuccessful a few years back when I was going after general admin sort of jobs - I've ended up back in something more specialised but it takes a while for that sort of job and in the sort of patch I'm in to come up.


I’ve applied for a lot of stuff via the various apps on my iPad so I can keep a record of what I have applied for and even for call centre roles, even attending an interview for one last week and obviously, my email inboxes are swamped with (useless, repeated elsewhere and irrelevant vacancy alerts, some of which I have already applied to) - hopefully next Thursday, because the additional help I’m getting is linked up with partner companies that give jobs to the people they help, I might get something that way (hopefully it will be retail/supermarket/coffee shop) but these jobsearch websites only make the jobsearch even more difficult, especially when some of them are linked with each other/part of each other and thier related apps


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 27, 2020)

Irish353.109 , thanks for the update. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, sometimes these things just take a while. I was unemployed for seven months from late 2011 until mid 2012, and the UK wasn't even technically in recession. It's just that when there's more people than there are jobs, employers are in a position to be ridiculously fussy. I was rejected for some frankly stupid reasons by employers who I knew for a fact would've snatched my hand off a year before.

By all means listen to feedback you get, but don't go assuming you're at fault somehow!

Keep on going, I know it's hard, but you're doing all the right things.


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 27, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Irish353.109 , thanks for the update. I don't think you're doing anything wrong, sometimes these things just take a while. I was unemployed for seven months from late 2011 until mid 2012, and the UK wasn't even technically in recession. It's just that when there's more people than there are jobs, employers are in a position to be ridiculously fussy. I was rejected for some frankly stupid reasons by employers who I knew for a fact would've snatched my hand off a year before.
> 
> By all means listen to feedback you get, but don't go assuming you're at fault somehow!
> 
> Keep on going, I know it's hard, but you're doing all the right things.


By the way, what sort of jobs are you going for? - these online tests and jobsearch websites (even with one to one guidance) even with CV matching are a nightmare


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 27, 2020)

Puddy_Tat said:


> If you've got access to additional support, has anyone else had a look at your CV and said what they think?  There's a lot of (in many cases conflicting) advice out there about the 'right' way to put a CV together, but what's seen as best practice does change from time to time (and if you're looking for advice on the internet, also from one country to another - so advice on - for example- an american website may not be so much help.)
> 
> It's also often worth having a basic CV on the shelf (or the computer), but tailoring it a bit depending on what sort of job you're going for, what particular experience / skills you're trying to sell to this employer (based on what the job advert etc says they are looking for) - my inner weasel says that tweaking it each time also takes up time towards however many hours a week you're supposed to spend jumping through hoops.  just make sure you keep a copy of the one you've sent in a way that you'll find it (e.g. separate folder on computer for each job) so you can remember exactly what you've told that employer.
> 
> As I think has already been said, the way people on UC are forced to apply for so many jobs, i guess employers get overloaded with applications / CVs and not sure how the heck they even start to sift for generalist jobs (I was pretty unsuccessful a few years back when I was going after general admin sort of jobs - I've ended up back in something more specialised but it takes a while for that sort of job and in the sort of patch I'm in to come up.


By the way, I managed to change my UC password (just now) on my iPad by requesting the password reset link and it worked, so I don’t have to lug my Chromebook around, but I found a way on the Chromebook to discover the original password (which I made sure to write down verbatim) - this and the card the jobcentres give out with the security number after I logged back in again and it worked (no thanks to the jobcentre)


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 27, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> By the way, I managed to change my UC password (just now) on my iPad by requesting the password reset link and it worked, so I don’t have to lug my Chromebook around, but I found a way on the Chromebook to discover the original password (which I made sure to write down verbatim) - this and the card the jobcentres give out with the security number after I logged back in again and it worked (no thanks to the jobcentre)



it was all a bloody sight simpler when you went in to the job centre, read the cards on the board, and made a note of the reference number of anything you wanted to know more about, then went and asked at the desk...


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 27, 2020)

Well I'm a full time street musician now, so I no longer need the DWP (thankfully) but before that, from age 16 to 30, I was working in various call centres and offices. This included taking inbound calls for a housing association, a London Borough council, a parcel delivery firm, TFL, a bank and an IT company; receptionist at a probation office, admin work at a charity, a telesales job, as well as lots of temping through agencies. I did a lot of what you're doing now and remember how it feels!


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 28, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> JOB WEBSITES I USED:
> 
> Allthetopbananas.com
> Britishjobs.net
> ...


My experiences of using all of these websites (and thier related iPad apps) to date has been that some of them are part of each other and owned by each other, they share (re-post)each other’s vacancy listings, (which they also share to other third-party iPad apps), putting in parameters in direct searches such as postcode, distance, job type/description, full/part time, contract/permanent, etc is useless, thier CV job matching is a complete joke, as the results are totally irrelevant, the same goes for when you set up a job alert via email, even with Google Jobsearch, which when you have to go through one of these sites to reach the employers recruitment website - someone mentioned earlier about job and recruitment scams going on and I am really beginning to wonder if this is the case - this is the very reason that regardless of your IT skills level, you really need to only do these job searches (with) supervision on a 1-2-1 with someone who really knows what they are doing, as attempting to do so otherwise is not conducive to a successful jobsearch


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## Irish353.109 (Jan 28, 2020)

Puddy_Tat said:


> it was all a bloody sight simpler when you went in to the job centre, read the cards on the board, and made a note of the reference number of anything you wanted to know more about, then went and asked at the desk...


I quite agree, as the internet has made jobsearch for jobseekers much more difficult, not easier, as everywhere I have approached in person with a copy of my CV has told me that “you need to apply online, we don’t take CV’s” - some people simply refuse to accept this fact and tell me that “I do not understand that I am wrong”, even when I attempt to present evidence of this, which they dismiss as being irrelevant - recruitment agencies could be doing far more as well - and various community projects of this nature that were set up in socially deprived areas of Manchester in 2002 are no more due to lack of funding, where you could go into a place every day of every week with a CV and get help - I’ve emailed all the (relevant) employment agencies in Manchester with my CV and have received no reply to date


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## LeytonCatLady (Jan 28, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> I quite agree, as the internet has made jobsearch for jobseekers much more difficult, not easier, as everywhere I have approached in person with a copy of my CV has told me that “you need to apply online, we don’t take CV’s” - some people simply refuse to accept this fact and tell me that “I do not understand that I am wrong”, even when I attempt to present evidence of this, which they dismiss as being irrelevant - recruitment agencies could be doing far more as well - and various community projects of this nature that were set up in socially deprived areas of Manchester in 2002 are no more due to lack of funding, where you could go into a place every day of every week with a CV and get help - I’ve emailed all the (relevant) employment agencies in Manchester with my CV and have received no reply to date


With the agencies, feel free to check in with them every couple of weeks to let them know you're still looking. Most of them appreciate that as they can't reply to everyone due to the sheer number of people approaching them for work. However, if you remind them you exist, you'll get more invites to come in and register, and then when a job comes up they'll have put a face to a name, and might be more likely to consider you than someone they haven't met.


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## Irish353.109 (Feb 11, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Well I'm a full time street musician now, so I no longer need the DWP (thankfully) but before that, from age 16 to 30, I was working in various call centres and offices. This included taking inbound calls for a housing association, a London Borough council, a parcel delivery firm, TFL, a bank and an IT company; receptionist at a probation office, admin work at a charity, a telesales job, as well as lots of temping through agencies. I did a lot of what you're doing now and remember how it feels!


Although the Motiv8 did not work out, as although I met two of the conditions, I did not meet the third one - not only do my family in Rural Ireland firmly believe and maintain that I am not doing enough to look for work, as they have said all along since Sept, it has even suggested by one of them that I might have Aspergers, given my previous experiences with bullying, for which regardless of the circumstances, they have always automatically deemed me to be at fault for on each occasion and in every incident, networking with each other and labelling everything I do, say be and act as being wrong and inappropriate in every way, where I had also been attacked by one of thier young friends on Facebook, who appears nice but suddenly turned very nasty as soon as I had arrived in Ireland, posting really horrible personal messages, to which I unfriended and blocked everyone that I knew who had connections to that Irish village - I explained all of this to my job coach as soon as I returned from Ireland (where I was last week, after advice from my job coach to go over) as I had also written an email to the National autistic society detailing my experiences and interactions (my being gay does not help either, as I have had some really nasty comments from other gay people regarding this) and my job coach also sent me an email about a local Aspergers group - something has changed for the better in my local jobcentre, the harshness has gone and there is a real desire to help people


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## LeytonCatLady (Feb 12, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> Although the Motiv8 did not work out, as although I met two of the conditions, I did not meet the third one - not only do my family in Rural Ireland firmly believe and maintain that I am not doing enough to look for work, as they have said all along since Sept, it has even suggested by one of them that I might have Aspergers, given my previous experiences with bullying, for which regardless of the circumstances, they have always automatically deemed me to be at fault for on each occasion and in every incident, networking with each other and labelling everything I do, say be and act as being wrong and inappropriate in every way, where I had also been attacked by one of thier young friends on Facebook, who appears nice but suddenly turned very nasty as soon as I had arrived in Ireland, posting really horrible personal messages, to which I unfriended and blocked everyone that I knew who had connections to that Irish village - I explained all of this to my job coach as soon as I returned from Ireland (where I was last week, after advice from my job coach to go over) as I had also written an email to the National autistic society detailing my experiences and interactions (my being gay does not help either, as I have had some really nasty comments from other gay people regarding this) and my job coach also sent me an email about a local Aspergers group - something has changed for the better in my local jobcentre, the harshness has gone and there is a real desire to help people


I'm glad they're being more compassionate towards you. Maybe now your family will be too.


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## Irish353.109 (Feb 18, 2020)

Chilli.s said:


> Someone should devise an app that does. Trawls job sites and notes what has or could have been applied for.


Having had my work search activity reduced from 35 hours a week (8 hours a day in 5 day (Mon- Fri) period max & 7 job applications a day) to 20 hours a week (4 hours a day max and at least one job application per day, every day), it can still be difficult to get the self-discipline together to get and stick to a timetable


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## Irish353.109 (Feb 18, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm on JSA and have been told I need to record my job searching activities on Universal Jobmatch. Apparently I need to be looking for work for at least 35 hours a week, which is ridiculous. It takes a couple of hours a day, if that.
> Have the rules changed?


It’s all online these days and since my redundancy at age 49 after 17 years from retail supermarkets last sept, I find it very stressful, even though I have internet access from home, trawling through all the websites, uploading my CV, even going on Facebook - you are made to feel that you are not doing enough to look for work and even if you don’t apply for a vacancy at least once per day (and record same in journal) you are also still required to record all related jobsearch related activity in UC journal (not just saying that you visited a particular jobsearch website) - it used to be that you had to apply for 7 jobs per day minimum, regardless of suitability or distance but I had to get mine reduced to 20 hours a week as I found it too much


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## Irish353.109 (Feb 19, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Thanks Anton. The good news is I started work today! It's a call centre role at a housing association, and it's 12 weeks on the agency with a look to possibly go permanent after that. I had to ring Universal Credit this morning to explain my change of circumstances and it felt great saying I wouldn't be in tomorrow (she'd booked me onto a group interview thing for a dodgy-sounding zero-hour "opportunity"). As my hours are full time, I won't need to attend any JCP appointments. I'm determined to work fecking hard and really prove myself at this job so they keep me on and I'll hopefully never have to deal with DWP again.
> 
> Anyone reading this who's going through the same thing, don't lose heart! I know it's hard when you're not in work, but I promise one day you'll find the perfect fit. I have received some great moral support on this thread from the Urbs, and anyone who could do with the same, please post to this thread when you like and I'll be more than happy to pay it forward and help or advise any way I can.
> 
> Don't give up, jobseekers! Your time _is _gonna come.


Most of the jobs I have found have been call centre roles, not working in an actual shop, even in a junior role and the supermarkets all do these online tests now - I know I would never be able for a call centre


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## Irish353.109 (Feb 19, 2020)

Jon-of-arc said:


> It is ridiculous. Handily, you can just make shit up, and they have no way of proving you didn't spend 4 hours searching for work/applications, plus another 3 hours travelling to and from a meeting with an agent. Just nod along and agree to do what they say, then do what you were gonna do anyway and tell them any old shit.  They're hardly gonna have the time to check any of it out.


I’m looking for any good apps out there too


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## LeytonCatLady (Feb 19, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> Most of the jobs I have found have been call centre roles, not working in an actual shop, even in a junior role and the supermarkets all do these online tests now - I know I would never be able for a call centre


 I did prefer call centre work to retail myself, partly because it paid better and also if someone's rude to you on the phone they can't see you giving them the finger. 😂

But in general, I got sick of hearing "the customer is always right" and opted for busking instead. Now I've no intention of working for a boss again.


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## Irish353.109 (Feb 20, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> Having had my work search activity reduced from 35 hours a week (8 hours a day in 5 day (Mon- Fri) period max & 7 job applications a day) to 20 hours a week (4 hours a day max and at least one job application per day, every day), it can still be difficult to get the self-discipline together to get and stick to a timetable


If someone applies for a job, either via a website or app that is mentioned (or otherwise not specified) in the claimant commitment for Universal Credit, that website or app should automatically forward those details to the applicant’s online journal where the Universal Credit login details are entered into that website or app - and this is one of many ways in which these website and app creators could help people applying for jobs while on Universal Credit given the current rules  - this is one reason why I prefer to use apps when applying for jobs, as already, it does provide you with a list of all jobs applied for through the app for you to enter into your journal later on, which I would try to do before Midnight that day at the latest


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## Irish353.109 (Mar 5, 2020)

stuff_it said:


> It exists.
> 
> Universal Automation                             | Get the Extension


Since having to claim UC since my redundancy from a U.K. supermarket after 17 years at age 49 in Sept 2019, aside from any political considerations one way or the other, I do consider that some aspects of UC need to be reviewed and I do empathise with those who do find some aspects of the system unfair, especially regarding the sanctions regime, which many jobcentre advisors (privately) opposed to the current UC system are very reluctant to impose on people, unless they are forced by thier managers to do so, as they know only too well “at first hand” the hardship that sanctions create 

- in one way, I have no problem per se with the current requirements for claimants to prove that they are making serious efforts to look for work given thier personal circumstances and are not “dossing” but the fact remains that there are serious flaws in the current UC system and some of the current rules and requirements tend to be a little excessive and tend to lack compassion and empathy, as many jobcentre advisors know that people are doing all they can to look for work, especially in this online age - the requirement to spend (up to) 35 hours in job search related activity and/or to apply for a certain number of jobs per day/week needs review, again in this online age, which itself makes the job search more difficult, not easier - I “get” that people should be motivated to look for a job but this is a crude instrument and given the attitudes of society towards people who are out of work, it leads to that person hating on themselves as each month passes that they still have not found a job 

because everything these days is online, regardless of one’s IT skills or anything else, it is of critical importance that any online jobsearch activity must not be carried out on your own without one to one supervision in a council or community run facility, such as in a job club right from the start, especially in the case of redundancy, where even if you have internet access from home, you are far better off physically going down in person accompanied by a friend well in advance of redundancy date to either citizens advice and/or to your local council housing office for one to one support, including with jobsearch - your ability to think rationally and in a common sense way is seriously compromised because of the unconsciously psychological effects of losing a job and at the start, you simply do not know what you are doing, even if you think you do, as you are being wrong and are deluded if you think otherwise, which as an older Irish gay man myself, I found out to my cost - back home in the old days in Ireland, many of the Catholic religious orders of Priests and Nuns would have helped people in this area and various charities need to be doing similar work to help people now


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## Irish353.109 (Mar 12, 2020)

LeytonCatLady said:


> Evening everyone.
> 
> Like lots of people, I have recently had the misfortune of becoming unemployed and needing to turn to the state for support - and I live in a UC area. The work coach has asked me a few times to record my jobsearch on my Universal Jobmatch account, which I am not happy to do as I have never allowed access. I quoted the regs at her which say claimants can record their jobsearch activity however they choose. Her favourite retort is "Well that was Jobseekers' Allowance, this is Universal Credit!"
> 
> ...


I’ve gradually discovered over time that I might have Aspergers so trying to get a GP appointment for referral to mental health team for referral to specialist for formal diagnosis, which is more difficult in later life as they focus (quite rightly) on kids first - had been doing research into it a few years ago, noticed things about myself, people had said various things to me over the years, then the last time I was back home, a family friend who knows me from childhood who is interested in psychology (totally out of the blue) came out with it in general chit-chat and for once, it actually made total sense, even though I know how difficult it will be to get a GP referral at my age and might have to go private if I can’t get it on the NHS 

- there must be a lot of people with this hidden disability in this area, as the council consistently tell people never to do jobsearch activity unsupervised by council staff in council run facilities and this is certainly been the advice I’ve been given right from the start of my redundancy from anyone in the council that I’ve spoken to - I was even advised (privately) by a council adviser to pretend to be disabled to keep the jobcentre off my back and to avoid sanctions


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## LeytonCatLady (Mar 12, 2020)

Irish353.109 said:


> I’ve gradually discovered over time that I might have Aspergers so trying to get a GP appointment for referral to mental health team for referral to specialist for formal diagnosis, which is more difficult in later life as they focus (quite rightly) on kids first - had been doing research into it a few years ago, noticed things about myself, people had said various things to me over the years, then the last time I was back home, a family friend who knows me from childhood who is interested in psychology (totally out of the blue) came out with it in general chit-chat and for once, it actually made total sense, even though I know how difficult it will be to get a GP referral at my age and might have to go private if I can’t get it on the NHS
> 
> - there must be a lot of people with this hidden disability in this area, as the council consistently tell people never to do jobsearch activity unsupervised by council staff in council run facilities and this is certainly been the advice I’ve been given right from the start of my redundancy from anyone in the council that I’ve spoken to - I was even advised (privately) by a council adviser to pretend to be disabled to keep the jobcentre off my back and to avoid sanctions


I hope you get some answers. Good luck!


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