# The Fall - new series on BBC2



## mentalchik (May 14, 2013)

started last night on BBC2 with Gillian Anderson set in Belfast.......

liked it a lot....anyone else ?


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2013)

yeh, very different from the x files! rather disturbing too, which is how i like my tv


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## mentalchik (May 14, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, very different from the x files! rather disturbing too, which is how i like my tv


 
yes i found it quite enthralling..........like the plot device


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## Reno (May 14, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, very different from the x files!


 
So was Bleak House. 

Will record this and watch it when it's done, early reviews were good.

I like Gillian Anderson. After the X-Files rather than chasing Hollywood stardom like many TV stars, she moved to the UK and has taken on roles that make demands on her as an actress. She's had diverse and interesting career since then. Her performance in Terence Davies' House of Mirth is one of my favourites of the last decade.


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## Shirl (May 14, 2013)

i thought it was excellent. I keep being surprised by good drama on tele lately. There seemed to be bugger all not that long ago.


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## Kaka Tim (May 21, 2013)

I thought it was a let down. Why bother setting it in belfast? - it might just as well have been colchester. The town has a wonderfully inventive vernacular and fascinating culture and cast of characters born of negotiating centuries of conflict and strife. But we saw none of this - just lots of young, well groomed, good looking middle class types and a few token nods to the troubles.
The killer is not convincing - he looks - and acts - like someone who has just wondered in off the set of hollyoaks. Imagine how terrifying/disturbing someone like robert carlyle would be in that role. I've recently been watching the complete Cracker on DVD and this slick made-for-export fodder suffers greatly in comparison.
Shame - as this could have been very good in the right hands.
Scully is good though - although her accent rather reminiscent of La Streep doing her Thatcher turn.


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## RedDragon (May 28, 2013)

I'm still watching - if only for ice-queen Scully.


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## susie12 (May 28, 2013)

She's good in it but I'm tired of dramas based on young women being murdered.  There are other subjects.


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## RedDragon (May 28, 2013)

I agree some of the pre killing scenes are over the top and having a cute murderer doesn't excuse it.


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## JimW (May 29, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> I thought it was a let down. Why bother setting it in belfast? - it might just as well have been colchester. The town has a wonderfully inventive vernacular and fascinating culture and cast of characters born of negotiating centuries of conflict and strife. But we saw none of this - just lots of young, well groomed, good looking middle class types and a few token nods to the troubles.
> The killer is not convincing - he looks - and acts - like someone who has just wondered in off the set of hollyoaks. Imagine how terrifying/disturbing someone like robert carlyle would be in that role. I've recently been watching the complete Cracker on DVD and this slick made-for-export fodder suffers greatly in comparison.
> Shame - as this could have been very good in the right hands.
> Scully is good though - although her accent rather reminiscent of La Streep doing her Thatcher turn.


 
Just seen the latest and thought you got a bit more of the belfast setting coming through, if ony in the threats the guy he's counselling makes and the types hanging around his street when he goes to visit his home to cover one of his scouting missions.
Think it has been quality generally. Get the point about the victims susie12 makes.


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## Callie (May 29, 2013)

It's just like watching hollyoaks. Well sort of, there's at least 3 actors who used to be in hollyoaks in it. I've missed a few episodes, it looks polished but it seems to be lacking substance.


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## catinthehat (May 31, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> I thought it was a let down. Why bother setting it in belfast? - it might just as well have been colchester. The town has a wonderfully inventive vernacular and fascinating culture and cast of characters born of negotiating centuries of conflict and strife. But we saw none of this - just lots of young, well groomed, good looking middle class types and a few token nods to the troubles.
> The killer is not convincing - he looks - and acts - like someone who has just wondered in off the set of hollyoaks. Imagine how terrifying/disturbing someone like robert carlyle would be in that role. I've recently been watching the complete Cracker on DVD and this slick made-for-export fodder suffers greatly in comparison.
> Shame - as this could have been very good in the right hands.
> Scully is good though - although her accent rather reminiscent of La Streep doing her Thatcher turn.


 
She lived in the UK till she was 11 and her natural voice has an english accent - she was interviewed on R4 the other day.  I was very befuddled as had assumed her natural voice to have an american accent.


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## JimW (Jun 4, 2013)

Just seen the fourth episode and it's going from strength to strength for me - no obviously weak characters and some good acting. Anderson just right for her role, convincing as a bright woman who does her own thing but nothing wrong and still puts others noses' out of joint just for that. The crime itself getting a bit murker too.


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## Reno (Jun 4, 2013)

catinthehat said:


> She lived in the UK till she was 11 and her natural voice has an english accent - she was interviewed on R4 the other day. I was very befuddled as had assumed her natural voice to have an american accent.


 
Indeed. She said in interviews she was picked on for her English accent when they moved from the UK to the Midwest of the USA and there she adopted a US accent to blend in, but her original accent is a London accent.


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## Badgers (Jun 4, 2013)

Excellent drama this. Watched the first three in one hit. First series I have seen for a while that made me angry I could see them all without waiting a week


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## catinthehat (Jun 4, 2013)

Was it my imagination or did they do a lot of close to the face type stuff - I'm sure there is a technical name for it - but I was struck by how much of it was focused on close ups of the actors faces - to good effect I thought.


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2013)

just caught up with this week's.  i love it.  Anderson is creating a really impressive performance. I'd like to see her character in a further series (where perhaps all the very obvious feminist stuff can already have been said and we can just get on with her being a really strong female character).


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 5, 2013)

It's good. I like it. Having a killer not look like a killer is perfectly acceptable. I'm sick of watching shows where the murderer looks like a fruit and nut case and no one seems to notice until they nick him mid-slash!

Has some interesting side stories and characters too. I'd like to see Anderson's character reprised too. She can go to colchester next.


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## JimW (Jun 5, 2013)

That bit where she (well, one of the victims first) goes on about Mosuo walking marriages tickled me too, as it's something I happen to know (gets a fair bit of interest here, as you might imagine) and even that was done pretty well. usually find if one of these dramas touches on some obscure topic you happen to know a bit about it gets it horribly wrong and so undermines your faith in the rest of it, but not here.


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## RedDragon (Jun 5, 2013)

Why can't he be happy with just killing the annoying ones like his wife and the youtube girl.


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Why can't he be happy with just killing the annoying ones like his wife and the youtube girl.


what's annoying about his wife?


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## RedDragon (Jun 5, 2013)

Her perfection, hadn't you noticed?


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## Shirl (Jun 5, 2013)

I really like the wife. On Monday when she was with the girl who's baby was dying, I thought she seemed so credible and I was really moved by those scenes.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 5, 2013)

Theres is a lot of good stuff in this - its smart, interesting and Scully is great. Interesting feminist subtext around objectification as well.  My original moans about hollyoaks look-a-likes and lack of belfast-ness still stand though - and the killer doesn't look 'normal' - he looks (and acts) like a male model.


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## RedDragon (Jun 5, 2013)

I felt it was too much of a counterbalance to her husbands murdering ways, although his 'I wouldn't of killed her if I'd known she was pregnant' kind of neatly connected him to his wife.


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2013)

yeah - she seems really normal: works hard, gets a bit ratty sometimes...


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> Theres is a lot of good stuff in this - its smart, interesting and Scully is great. Interesting feminist subtext around objectification as well. My original moans about hollyoaks look-a-likes and lack of belfast-ness still stand though - and the killer doesn't look 'normal' - he looks (and acts) like a male model.


but that's interesting in itself: how do we react to a killer who is physically very attractive, who is - at one level - a good father, has a caring, nurturing job etc.  it's more disconcerting than if he was a bit more anonymous.  also, when he has his small bits of contaact with the women (handing back their wallet etc) the way they react to him is different *because* he's handsome.


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## RedDragon (Jun 5, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> ...  and the killer doesn't look 'normal' - he looks (and acts) like a male model.


How do you mean?


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## Shirl (Jun 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> but that's interesting in itself: how do we react to a killer who is physically very attractive, who is - at one level - a good father, has a caring, nurturing job etc. it's more disconcerting than if he was a bit more anonymous. also, when he has his small bits of contaact with the women (handing back their wallet etc) the way they react to him is different *because* he's handsome.


I had never thought of him as handsome  I might have to go and have another look now.


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## Shirl (Jun 5, 2013)

Been and had another look. I don't think he looks handsome at all although he looks more attractive in the underpants ad. I suppose it's 'eye of the beholder' and all that.


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## JimW (Jun 5, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> Theres is a lot of good stuff in this - its smart, interesting and Scully is great. Interesting feminist subtext around objectification as well. My original moans about hollyoaks look-a-likes and lack of belfast-ness still stand though - and the killer doesn't look 'normal' - he looks (and acts) like a male model.


 
On the Belfast thing - thought there were some elements that could only happen there - armed police (as standard I mean) so that's a few plot points without getting spoilerish; the "neighbourhood watch" types when our man goes to visit the battered wife; her husband's threats seeming pretty credible etc. Not that I actually have any experience of Ulster bar second hand through family.


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## renegadechicken (Jun 5, 2013)

I turn my brain off and just enjoy, we watched the first three in one hit and are now having a break to watch two more in a row. I am enjoyiung it, but too many ex hollyoakers in it, and killing women has been done to death...why not kill milkmen or summat?


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2013)

this is a drama about womanhood, in a lot of ways. the wife, the daughter, the victims, the forensic pathologist, the uniformed policwoman, the prostitutes, the sexually precocious teen, the battered wife, and of course, gillian anderson's character.  his attitudes to women, the police's attitudes, the maternity ward...  i think in that context, female victims are justified.


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## felixthecat (Jun 5, 2013)

I'm really enjoying this. Good writing, strong characters, well cast.

I can't understand why anyone doesn't like the wife - what a weird comment about her being perfect . Just a working mum doing a difficult job with a husband who's not a lot of help. And I think yer man is a great killer - I hate it when potentially good dramas are spoilt by a murderer who looks like a stereotypical homicidal maniac.

I'm quite glad I've never seen Hollyoaks - would be sad to have this excellent drama series tainted because of it.


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## trashpony (Jun 5, 2013)

Can anyone explain what the point of interspersing GA shagging that other copper with the murderer murdering? I really didn't like that.

His wife saying 'would you like to wash and dress [the baby] and then take some photos' was v creepy


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## Shirl (Jun 5, 2013)

trashpony said:


> His wife saying 'would you like to wash and dress [the baby] and then take some photos' was v creepy


That's what happens though in that situation.


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2013)

i think it was a deliberate echo of what he does, perhaps to shed some light on his motivations?


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## Shirl (Jun 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> i think it was a deliberate echo of what he does, perhaps to shed some light on his motivations?


I am too dim to have noticed that


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## 8115 (Jun 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> i think it was a deliberate echo of what he does, perhaps to shed some light on his motivations?


 
It's a motif. The whole death/ purification thing. I think him saying the hair belonged to his mother, he likes to wash it will turn out to be significant.

It's ok. Gillian Anderson is good, and I like the whole, good looking killer with a caring job. But there's something missing.


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## trashpony (Jun 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> i think it was a deliberate echo of what he does, perhaps to shed some light on his motivations?


I got that, just didn't get the bit with her shag and his murder.

It felt to me like they were trying to draw parallels between her fuck and his murder


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## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I got that, just didn't get the bit with her shag and his murder.
> 
> It felt to me like they were trying to draw parallels between her fuck and his murder


yeah - i dunno about that. maybe just juxtaposition - like they always seem to show him working out crosscut with her swimming.


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## JimW (Jun 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> i think it was a deliberate echo of what he does, perhaps to shed some light on his motivations?


 
I'm certain it was an echo, though maybe as a contrast?
On the her sex intercut with his murder/rape - maybe contrasting healthy-but-not-entirely-socially-sanctioned sexual-behaviour with weirdo evil power game criminality? I.e. here's two people stepping outside social norms, one by being straightforward and assertive but consensual, the other by controlling and horrible violent crime. Not really thought that through, I must confess, just a reaction to trashpony's question.


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## Stigmata (Jun 5, 2013)

Good to see a few of the better Game of Thrones actors getting some other work. Although that one copper looks disconcertingly like Eric Cantona.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 6, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I got that, just didn't get the bit with her shag and his murder.
> 
> It felt to me like they were trying to draw parallels between her fuck and his murder


 
There was a scene in ep3 where she's being questioned about her 'relations' with the cop in ep1 when she makes a point about men and women as subject and object. This is an theme throughout the story. In her liason with the cop she was the subject, he was the object , in the killer's actions he is the subject and she is the object.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 6, 2013)

repeat post


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## trashpony (Jun 6, 2013)

Nanker Phelge said:


> There was a scene in ep3 where she's being questioned about her 'relations' with the cop in ep1 when she makes a point about men and women as subject and object. This is an theme throughout the story. In her liason with the cop she was the subject, he was the object , in the killer's actions he is the subject and she is the object.


Aha of course


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 6, 2013)

trashpony said:


> Aha of course


 
I made that almost sound like I knew what I was talking about....


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 6, 2013)

Just realised this is on Netflix US....I'm gonna watch the ending tonight!


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## JimW (Jun 7, 2013)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Just realised this is on Netflix US....I'm gonna watch the ending tonight!


 
Don't tell us who's done it and spoil it!  Though clearly some other murkiness going on too.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 7, 2013)

bites tongue!


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## youngian (Jun 10, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Although that one copper looks disconcertingly like Eric Cantona.


 
Thanks, I've been curious for weeks who he reminds me of. John Lynch also played George Best in a biopic.
*Spoiler-*






Very unusual ending by letting the case role over to a second series. Hope they don't arse about and leave it too long.


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## Badgers (Jun 10, 2013)

HUSH


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## spanglechick (Jun 11, 2013)

What, that was it??


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## twistedAM (Jun 11, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> What, that was it??


 
2nd series?


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 11, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> What, that was it??


 
Gillian Anderson actually discussed the ending a few weeks back:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news...ll-series-2-a-cliffhanger-is-always-good.html

I felt a little frustrated by it....


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## susie12 (Jun 11, 2013)

Not cliffhanger so much as copout.  If they hadn't commissioned a second series it would have been a really poor ending.  Had serious doubts about this work - the violence was gratuitous and lingering and the supposed parallels between cop and killer were tenuous and didn't work for me at least.  Also the juxtaposition others have mentioned - so sex is like murder?  No, it isn't.


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## JimW (Jun 11, 2013)

Fair points susie12; I've been more positive than you up to now but that was a very poor way to end it - him going off/going on puts him on equal status with her character IYSWIM which lends weight to what you say about false equivalences drawn which I was willing to think they weren't doing up to now. She should have brought the fucker to justice and season 2 should have had her on a new case. Maybe it will with him lurking as a shadow in the background, but seems like they want to set him on a par with her.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 11, 2013)

The ending was bollocks. They have a ton of evidence to identify him - his first name, a photofit, where and when he went to college - one media appeal and/or quick chat with the colleges and they would have him within hours. Once his previous victim had come forward any half witted plod would have had enough to nail him.

On top of that - they have his handwriting  - they took his DNA and prints when he took himself into the cop shop, why weren't they sampling handwriting as well? And why did he write - instead of type  - the letter in the first place? 

Gillian Anderson gets better and better and there's some very good writing - but The fall is not nearly as clever as it seems to think it is and its feminist pretentions wrapped around gratuitous sex crime voyeurism is a queasy combination.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> The ending was bollocks. They have a ton of evidence to identify him - his first name, a photofit, where and when he went to college - one media appeal and/or quick chat with the colleges and they would have him within hours. Once his previous victim had come forward any half witted plod would have had enough to nail him.
> 
> On top of that - they have his handwriting - they took his DNA and prints when he took himself into the cop shop, why weren't they sampling handwriting as well? And why did he write - instead of type - the letter in the first place?
> 
> Gillian Anderson gets better and better and there's some very good writing - but The fall is not nearly as clever as it seems to think it is and its feminist pretentions wrapped around gratuitous sex crime voyeurism is a queasy combination.


 
they did sample his handwriting you weren't paying attention


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## cyprusclean (Jun 11, 2013)

JimW said:


> She should have brought the fucker to justice and season 2 should have had her on a new case.


 
  I agree with this. I find myself wishing she  had caught him.  I was looking forward to her proposition of "two hours" discussion  alone with her. He appeared  to like that idea.

And what are they going to do in Scotland, as a family?

 But as you said, maybe the writers want to develop a sort of symbiotic interaction between Gibson and the killer, resulting in a final denouement (sexual maybe?) in some location somewhere. Her flat? Her office?

His commenting on her nail varnish seemed to arouse something in her.


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## trashpony (Jun 11, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> The ending was bollocks. They have a ton of evidence to identify him - his first name, a photofit, where and when he went to college - one media appeal and/or quick chat with the colleges and they would have him within hours. Once his previous victim had come forward any half witted plod would have had enough to nail him.
> 
> On top of that - they have his handwriting - they took his DNA and prints when he took himself into the cop shop, why weren't they sampling handwriting as well? And why did he write - instead of type - the letter in the first place?
> 
> Gillian Anderson gets better and better and there's some very good writing - but The fall is not nearly as clever as it seems to think it is and its feminist pretentions wrapped around gratuitous sex crime voyeurism is a queasy combination.


Totally agree.

Not only could they have found him but his wife finding out he was shagging the babysitter and then wanting to have sex with him was totally unbelievable. As was her taking her kids out of school, walking away from her SCBU job that she loved with no notice and disappearing off to Scotland in a new car that's suddenly appeared outside their home


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## cyprusclean (Jun 11, 2013)

trashpony said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> in a new car that's suddenly appeared outside their home


 
 I wondered about that, after he'd blown the other one up. Or did they always have two cars, and we'd not noticed?

  I even wondered about the family income.  How much does a grief counseller earn?

Did the wife have a good job?


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## susie12 (Jun 11, 2013)

Yeah, it literally made no sense.  What about their house?  The kids' schools?  Jobs?  Yeah let's just run off that'll solve everything.  Very flawed writing and as Kaka Tim has said, queasy making.  I really found the level of sadistic violence at  prime time and portrayal of virtually every woman as a victim quite loathsome.  Won't be watching again.


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## trashpony (Jun 11, 2013)

Oh another thing that really pissed me off - he grew up in care. Lazy fucking stereotyping


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## cyprusclean (Jun 11, 2013)

susie12 said:


> Yeah, it literally made no sense. What about their house? The kids' schools? Jobs? Yeah let's just run off that'll solve everything. Very flawed writing and as Kaka Tim has said, queasy making. I really found the level of sadistic violence at prime time and portrayal of virtually every woman as a victim quite loathsome. Won't be watching again.


 
 The more I dissect it, the more I find things wrong with it.

 And I was drawn into it as much as everyone else. Maybe by the brooding  qualities of the actors.

And what the other poster  said, about being brought up in care. As though that is supposed to explain it all? Many psychopaths come from decent, caring, affluent and loving families.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> they did sample his handwriting you weren't paying attention


 

But they still haven't compared it with the writing on the letter - or get the photofit from his previous victim - for ooddles of TV time for no other reason than to spin it out for a second series. What's the point of having scully and her blinding intellect and insight if it takes no more than very straightforward plod-work to solve the case?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> But they still haven't compared it with the writing on the letter - or get the photofit from his previous victim - for ooddles of TV time for no other reason than to spin it out for a second series. What's the point of having scully and her blinding intellect and insight if it takes no more than very straightforward plod-work to solve the case?


£


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## JimW (Jun 11, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> But they still haven't compared it with the writing on the letter - or get the photofit from his previous victim - for ooddles of TV time for no other reason than to spin it out for a second series. What's the point of having scully and her blinding intellect and insight if it takes no more than very straightforward plod-work to solve the case?


 
On that last, was thinking after all this it'll come down to the last victim coming down and then picking him out off some mug shots, which as you say a reasonably competent CPSO could manage. Shame as I thought (still think) they were developing some interesting characters - though point taken about the growing up in care if it really does turn out to be as crude as that to explain his deviancy (hope to God it might not be that shit)


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## spanglechick (Jun 11, 2013)

So, Internet reviews from the broadsheets are very positive, comparing the ending to silence of the lambs.  Only the mail seems as outraged as the urban readership.  


I'm dissatisfied.  I don't need tidy resolution but this didn't have any kind of ending feeling at all.  I am, however, wondering how Danish audiences felt after season 1 of the killing, which came only halfway through the first murder investigation.  We saw it as a block of twenty, of course, but after the first ten there was similarly no resolution with sub plots up in the air all over the place.


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## kittyP (Jun 11, 2013)

We did both go "wtf?" at the end. 
The only way he maaaaybee be able to dissappear would be to change all the families identities but then he would have to tell his wife why. 
But even then the police would eventually pick up on the empty house and trace who it belonged to and find proper photos of him through his work or wife's family. 


I don't need massively tidy endings, leaving stuff to the imagination is fine but all I could imagine is that he would be quite quickly caught and felt cheated of missing that.


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## kittyP (Jun 11, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> But they still haven't compared it with the writing on the letter - or get the photofit from his previous victim - for ooddles of TV time for no other reason than to spin it out for a second series. What's the point of having scully and her blinding intellect and insight if it takes no more than very straightforward plod-work to solve the case?



Yes, she didn't solve the case at all, she just gave him a jumped up mouthful over the phone. 
I the made her whole character kinda pointless.


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## spanglechick (Jun 11, 2013)

kittyP said:


> We did both go "wtf?" at the end.
> The only way he maaaaybee be able to dissappear would be to change all the families identities but then he would have to tell his wife why.
> But even then the police would eventually pick up on the empty house and trace who it belonged to and find proper photos of him through his work or wife's family.
> 
> ...




That's EXACTLY it! A cliffhanger is fine, where you wonder "how will they get out of this situation?" but here it's obvious that he will be caught and fairly soon.  The spurned babysitter saw him come home with blood on him, the night of a bloody murder.  She's also been physically attacked by him.  Once she realises he's gone she is exactly the sort who will land him in it.  The wife's not stupid either.  There is no jeopardy in this ending.


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## twistedAM (Jun 11, 2013)

There was so much left to unravel in 60 minutes I wondered how they were going to do it and they blew it.
I guess the second series will be set in Scotland with him and the coke dealer/pimp crossing paths along with the  hardmen from the Shankill. There's so much evidence against them all that the second series could be wrapped up in 30 minutes.


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## felixthecat (Jun 11, 2013)

I think we are looking at the evidence from the point of CSI(as in the TV prog) and have unrealistic expectations of the police evidence. Why should he be a suspect? Loads of other people in Belfast who fit the rather loose profile. He put himself forward as being on the CCTV and was alibied by his wife. He's not got any links to the victims that we've seem. He's a personable intelligent bloke with a wife and family and a responsible job. No one he knows suspects him.  I don't see any reason why the police would be too interested in him.

Think of real life cases - Peter Sutcliffe is the one that immediately springs to mind.

I'm intrigued to see what the next series brings.


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## 8115 (Jun 11, 2013)

I didn't even realise that was the ending.  That was terrible.  Just terrible.


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## magneze (Jun 11, 2013)

Meh. Didn't live up to the hype.


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## Callie (Jun 11, 2013)

told you it was like hollyoaks


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## lefteri (Jun 11, 2013)

that was the last episode???????????  WTF


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## Shirl (Jun 11, 2013)

I wondered if they had written a different ending and then changed it for some reason at the last minute. Last night's episode was so poor and all over the place compared to the previous ones.
Won't stop me looking forward to series 2 though


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## JimW (Jun 11, 2013)

Never expected Ser Barristan Selmy of Game of Thrones fame to be such a wrong 'un, either.


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## hegley (Jun 11, 2013)

trashpony said:


> Oh another thing that really pissed me off - he grew up in care. Lazy fucking stereotyping


 
But we don't know that - it's just what he's told his wife so he has a reason not to have more of a history - family, friends etc. We already know that he'd half-strangled a girlfriend at college (and changed his name since then from Peter to Paul) - Gibson intimated (in Ep3 I think) that it's likely there were victims prior to the ones we know about, so perhaps he's already disappeared and reinvented himself once.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 11, 2013)

I wondered if the whole growing up in care thing is just a red herring.....and easy excuse he uses to get himself out of trouble....not the real reason he is trouble.

I wonder also about the whole 'getting fit' thing. When they talk about the early murders they suggest he wasn't strong enough to sustain a strangulation, and they show him developing strength, but also an opposition to men in authority and men who are aggressive. His weakness is presented time and again and his deceptions are all based around hiding his 'weak' self. The self that likes ladies underwear and make up and mannequins and dolls.....????? (this is me thinking out loud!).


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 11, 2013)

felixthecat said:


> I think we are looking at the evidence from the point of CSI(as in the TV prog) and have unrealistic expectations of the police evidence.


 
Hardly - they would have got in touch with the two colleges he studied at, where they knew when he was there, what he was probably studying and had his first name and a physical description from his previous victim. They could very easily get his full name within a few hours.

Equally easily they could get round to comparing his handwriting with the handwritten letter he sent to the cops - especially as he matches _exactly_ the suspect profile they had drawn up.

And of course they could release the photo-fit to the public saying 'he may be called paul'

But apparently these obvious and very very simple procedures -which would barely tax the abilities and resources of the scooby doo gang, let alone a large, extremely well resourced police investigation - have been either been mystifyingly overlooked or take so long that another entire series is required for them to get round to carrying them out.

Is the next episode going to consist of an hour long, arty slow-mo sequence of scully making a phone call?


----------



## Reno (Jun 11, 2013)

Shirl said:


> Been and had another look. I don't think he looks handsome at all although he looks more attractive in the underpants ad. I suppose it's 'eye of the beholder' and all that.


 
I've only just started to watch this and I find him distractingly handsome.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 11, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> Hardly - they would have got in touch with the two colleges he studied at, where they knew when he was there, what he was probably studying and had his first name and a physical description from his previous victim. They could very easily get his full name within a few hours.
> 
> Equally easily they could get round to comparing his handwriting with the handwritten letter he sent to the cops - especially as he matches _exactly_ the suspect profile they had drawn up.
> 
> ...


 
Didn't his profile just start to come together  in the space of a few hours? The main line of enquiry I would have thought would have been for PSNI to go round the schools with the drawing and identikit photo. They probably missed him by an hour or so.
More unbelievable though is how an entire family can pack up their possessions and book a ferry ticket all in one  morning (while he takes an hour off to make some calls).


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 11, 2013)

Reno said:


> I've only just started to watch this and I find him distractingly handsome.


 
Used to be a Calvin Klein model.


----------



## kittyP (Jun 11, 2013)

felixthecat said:
			
		

> I think we are looking at the evidence from the point of CSI(as in the TV prog) and have unrealistic expectations of the police evidence. Why should he be a suspect? Loads of other people in Belfast who fit the rather loose profile. He put himself forward as being on the CCTV and was alibied by his wife. He's not got any links to the victims that we've seem. He's a personable intelligent bloke with a wife and family and a responsible job. No one he knows suspects him.  I don't see any reason why the police would be too interested in him.
> 
> Think of real life cases - Peter Sutcliffe is the one that immediately springs to mind.
> 
> I'm intrigued to see what the next series brings.



I think Gillian Anderson knew who she was talking to on the phone


----------



## Reno (Jun 11, 2013)

twistedAM said:


> Used to be a Calvin Klein model.


 
I know, it's been mentioned.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

When did they find out he was called Paul, and his colleges?  I missed that.

Next series doesn't even start production till January, long bloody wait.


----------



## kittyP (Jun 11, 2013)

twistedAM said:
			
		

> Didn't his profile just start to come together  in the space of a few hours? The main line of enquiry I would have thought would have been for PSNI to go round the schools with the drawing and identikit photo. They probably missed him by an hour or so.
> More unbelievable though is how an entire family can pack up their possessions and book a ferry ticket all in one  morning (while he takes an hour off to make some calls).



Precisely. The family would surely be missed.
One of the people they interviewed suddenly disappeared.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 12, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Precisely. The family would surely be missed.
> One of the people they interviewed suddenly disappeared.


 
Yeah I forgot to mention that second point. Also I wonder if he remembered to take that drawing out of the bedside table. We didn't see him destroy that and after all while his wife was packing up the entire house in an hour he trying to play with Stella on the phone. 
In the second series I reckon they'll find him quick and it'll be about that little shithead pimp dealer, his daddy and the wimp chief of police.


----------



## xslavearcx (Jun 12, 2013)

I like how this thread has gone from "interesting feminist insights" to speculations on juxtapoistions before getting let down by how unbelieveable it was taht he did not get caught at it in the end. So from being quite hi-falutin poirot, columbu and agatha christie stuff comes out better in terms of writing lol.


----------



## Shirl (Jun 12, 2013)

Reno said:


> I've only just started to watch this and I find him distractingly handsome.


Since watching the fall I've seen photos of him being interviewed and I too think he his very handsome but when I see him in the fall he doesn't look at all handsome to me. I checked him out again on Monday just incase, but he still doesn't do it or me.


----------



## hegley (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> When did they find out he was called Paul, and his colleges? I missed that.


They didn't (not quite) - forensics woman's friend was interviewed in Ep4 (I think) because she'd had a few dates with a man she called Peter who had tried to strangle her; I can't remember how exact her memory was as to where and what he studied.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 12, 2013)

I found it totally plausible the police fucked-up and as mentioned by a poster earlier what's not to say season two happens in a condensed time frame.

Sadly I doubt there are female cops like scully, the asperger swede or the danish jumper.


----------



## Ms T (Jun 12, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I got that, just didn't get the bit with her shag and his murder.
> 
> It felt to me like they were trying to draw parallels between her fuck and his murder


 
I thought they were trying to say that in some ways the two are similar - which is what the killer says to Gillian in their phone conversation.


----------



## Ms T (Jun 12, 2013)

trashpony said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> Not only could they have found him but his wife finding out he was shagging the babysitter and then wanting to have sex with him was totally unbelievable. As was her taking her kids out of school, walking away from her SCBU job that she loved with no notice and disappearing off to Scotland in a new car that's suddenly appeared outside their home


 
I didn't think the sex was so unbelievable - but upping and leaving to Scotland at the drop of a hat was.


----------



## renegadechicken (Jun 12, 2013)

Not  mentioning the disappearance of the car was a bit odd, i'm sure Mrs Chicken would have something to say about that.


----------



## Shirl (Jun 12, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> the asperger swede or the danish jumper.


 
my two favourite cops


----------



## Badgers (Jun 12, 2013)

Shirl said:
			
		

> my two favourite cops



Not Lester Freeman?


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

hegley said:


> They didn't (not quite) - forensics woman's friend was interviewed in Ep4 (I think) because she'd had a few dates with a man she called Peter who had tried to strangle her; I can't remember how exact her memory was as to where and what he studied.


Doh!  Of course, ta.


----------



## Reno (Jun 13, 2013)

Watched this over the last couple of evenings. I thought this was better than most of these type of things. I didn't have a problem with the ending and thought that it was perfectly realistic that he had not been caught by that point. He was just about to be caught, it didn't need to be shown. In the end it was about two character studies and the killer and his crimes weren't nearly as interesting to me as Gillian Anderson's character.

She was a nice contrast too all these socially awkward lady crime fighters we've had from Jane Tennison to jumper lady. It's good get away from the cliche of all these women's life falling apart because they can't handle the work/life balance. I loved how she owned her sexuality without apologies and without being patholgised and I like how she remained a bit of an enigma. I'd be happy to see more of her and I hope they won't explain too much about her or get into some traumatic past.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 13, 2013)

Reno said:


> Watched this over the last couple of evenings. I thought this was better than most of these type of things. I didn't have a problem with the ending and thought that it was perfectly realistic that he had not been caught by that point. He was just about to be caught, it didn't need to be shown. In the end it was about two character studies and the killer and his crimes weren't nearly as interesting to me as Gillian Anderson's character.
> 
> She was a nice contrast too all these socially awkward lady crime fighters we've had from Jane Tennison to jumper lady. It's good get away from the cliche of all these women's life falling apart because they can't handle the work/life balance. I loved how she owned her sexuality without apologies and without being patholgised and I like how she remained a bit of an enigma. I'd be happy to see more of her and I hope they won't explain too much about her or get into some traumatic past.


 
Some goos points  there. The main argument about the ending being a bit meh for me was that the killer's family packed up all their possessions in an hour or so. BUT now I think about it, maybe he knows he will get caught and got his family (including unborn child) out of there for their protection (from the inevitable shitstorm that will follow his arrest and also to get them away from the pig-faced paramilitary). The only problem with that is his wife was too easily persuaded as she only thought his misdemeanour was doing the babysitter.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Dec 10, 2013)

just finished the 5th episode, and while I am totally in love w/ Gillian Anderson now (is that wrong of me to say in this context on so many levels or what?) I am a bit disappointed by all the plot holes too.
the burning of the car thing is just so stupid. cars are just about the easiest things to trace back to their owners, whether burnt out or not, and burning a car brings huge amounts of suspicion. also, I think a phone can still be pinpointed to specific locations whether or not it's registered. The shopping center will have had CCTV. He has left so much evidence it's hard to suspend disbelief that he would ever think he won't be caught, immediately. Sort of ruins the element of suspense.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 24, 2014)

The acting is excellent. So good that a feeling of hate stirs within me every time the character Paul Spector lopes onto the screen, walking along with his subtly menacing gait, all cold and brooding. 

The DSI Gibson character convincing as it is austere. 

There is a lot in this series that is disturbing and makes the viewer feel uncomfortable. The fact that the killer is a father makes it all the more dramatic as you know the inevitable consequences for the children will be totally devastating. I think the writer may be trying to make a point about addiction (Any kind not just serial killing) eroding the quality of relationships and destroying families, as Spector's mind always seems to be absent even when he is with the kids, like he's just passing time until his next fix. 

The Daily Mail have trundled out a university professor of criminology to lambast the series.

_"A top criminologist says BBC thriller The Fall and its 'brutal misogyny' make it the sickest show on TV"_


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2014)

Well, its not the most misogynist show on telly, but it does stroll a fair way down that avenue.  It's dropped the loving close ups of brutally slain women, lovingly posed, that it fetishised last season, but it does still like to tease and flirt with all that imagery.  From the frequent shots of Anderson's underwear, to the fifteen year old in bondage, it is a bit of a wankers delight


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 27, 2014)

belboid said:


> Well, its not the most misogynist show on telly, but it does stroll a fair way down that avenue.  It's dropped the loving close ups of brutally slain women, lovingly posed, that it fetishised last season, but it does still like to tease and flirt with all that imagery.  From the frequent shots of Anderson's underwear, to the fifteen year old in bondage, it is a bit of a wankers delight



I know what you mean, but it's still a decent bit of British drama and quite disturbing, only wanking material for psychopaths I'd have thought.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 1, 2014)

Just started watching this but missed the last season. Anyway I can see the rest of it online? 

I am watching the bit when he's on the train having a conversation with that girl and getting a bit freaked out


----------



## belboid (Dec 1, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> I know what you mean, but it's still a decent bit of British drama and quite disturbing, only wanking material for psychopaths I'd have thought.


And more this week, schoolgirl (almost) having skype sex, a bit of lezzing up, shots not held quite long enough for all but the quickest of chaps to 'enjoy', but they're definitely still in there


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 1, 2014)

belboid said:


> Well, its not the most misogynist show on telly, but it does stroll a fair way down that avenue.  It's dropped the loving close ups of brutally slain women, lovingly posed, that it fetishised last season, but it does still like to tease and flirt with all that imagery.  From the frequent shots of Anderson's underwear, to the fifteen year old in bondage, it is a bit of a wankers delight



Not sure 'lezzing up' = misogyny


----------



## belboid (Dec 1, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Not sure 'lezzing up' = misogyny


In and of itself, of course not, but with the rest.... A completely gratuitous scene, that didn't really make much sense. Not as bad as the way yer man nicked the car tho, that was just ludicrous!  The whole thing is getting just a bit too far fethced now, and I'd completely forgotten about the political sub-plot till they shoehorned it in.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 1, 2014)

It's 'quality drama', with quality acting so I do enjoy it and will watch the rest of it. Same time the detail shown in the attacks is unnecessary bordering on exploitative.  There's also the murderer as superhuman thing, even if you get that in many of these series.  Even though Anderson and some of the other cops are insightful, he always escapes them and is able to put elaborate plans into practice (all the stuff in the hotel in the last episode).   Same time, I will still watch it.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 1, 2014)

belboid said:


> In and of itself, of course not, but with the rest.... A completely gratuitous scene, that didn't really make much sense. Not as bad as the way yer man nicked the car tho, that was just ludicrous!  The whole thing is getting just a bit too far fethced now, and I'd completely forgotten about the political sub-plot till they shoehorned it in.



Don't say that, I've only just started watching it!!


----------



## Wilf (Dec 1, 2014)

belboid said:


> and I'd completely forgotten about the political sub-plot till they shoehorned it in.


 Me too - largely because it was shit.   The beardy cop is pretty much from central casting.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 4, 2014)

The alcoholic one? I thought that bit was quite good tbh.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 4, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> The alcoholic one? I thought that bit was quite good tbh.


 Yeah, that was okay in the last episode.  Suppose I was thinking of the last series where he's the cowardly cop, unpleasant, repressed, lecherous, corrupt, happy to ignore intimidation and murder - oh, hang on, he was actually quite convincing!


----------



## passenger (Dec 4, 2014)

tis very good


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 4, 2014)

i'm not quite buying his not-very-gradual opening up to the teenager.


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2014)

Why haven't they nicked him yet with the evidence the have so far?


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 4, 2014)

JimW said:


> Why haven't they nicked him yet with the evidence the have so far?


because rose might still be alive and if they nick him he might not tell them, leaving her to die.


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> because rose might still be alive and if they nick him he might not tell them, leaving her to die.


Ah, of course. Stupid me.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 4, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> i'm not quite buying his not-very-gradual opening up to the teenager.



Ya think? To be honest I think that's believable - look at ian watkins etc


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 4, 2014)

Also, those books he was hiding - ugh ugh ugh


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 5, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Ya think? To be honest I think that's believable - look at ian watkins etc


 
I agree. His manipulation of the besotted teenager is creepier than creepy and I find it incredibly uncomfortable to watch. It was a long time ago but I remember being that girl (albeit not with a murderer).


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 5, 2014)

felixthecat said:


> I agree. His manipulation of the besotted teenager is creepier than creepy and I find it incredibly uncomfortable to watch. It was a long time ago but I remember being that girl (albeit not with a murderer).



Me too. Although not to that extent, but I was talking to people as a teenager that I never should have.

Think people who say it's not believable are being very naive.


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 5, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Me too. Although not to that extent, but I was talking to people as a teenager that I never should have.
> 
> Think people who say it's not believable are being very naive.


Thanks.  

The reason I think this isn't believable is that he is obsessive about control and secrecy (Ian Watkins was a chaotic meth addict), and she is unpredictable and unreliable.  She's already done things he didn't want her to.  I don't think he would trust anyone - but if he did, it would be someone far weaker.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The reason I think this isn't believable is that he is obsessive about control and secrecy (Ian Watkins was a chaotic meth addict), and she is unpredictable and unreliable.  She's already done things he didn't want her to.  I don't think he would trust anyone - but if he did, it would be someone far weaker.



Fair enough. Serial killers do tend to make more and more mistakes though the more arrogant they get...


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The reason I think this isn't believable is that he is obsessive about control and secrecy (Ian Watkins was a chaotic meth addict), and she is unpredictable and unreliable.  She's already done things he didn't want her to.  I don't think he would trust anyone - but if he did, it would be someone far weaker.



I didn't mean you when I typed that, I was referring to some of the reviews in the papers etc...


----------



## Red Cat (Dec 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The reason I think this isn't believable is that he is obsessive about control and secrecy (Ian Watkins was a chaotic meth addict), and she is unpredictable and unreliable.  She's already done things he didn't want her to.  I don't think he would trust anyone - but if he did, it would be someone far weaker.



I don't think he trusts her, it's that she's safer under his control than not. Maybe!


----------



## spanglechick (Dec 5, 2014)

I think he'd see her as a threat and kill her.


----------



## Red Cat (Dec 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I think he'd see her as a threat and kill her.



For the reasons you've given I think he does see her as a threat. Not sure why he hasn't killed her so I'm assuming there's a plan.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 5, 2014)

Red Cat said:


> For the reasons you've given I think he does see her as a threat. Not sure why he hasn't killed her so I'm assuming there's a plan.



I am assuming his plan was to kill her eventually tbh. I think he wants to get her to take part in a murder before he does so.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 5, 2014)

I think it's still really compelling - it's a tale of 2 faces really, the cops and the killers. Lingering shots of both of them with very still faces.  Same time, there were quite a few elements in that last episode that were overly telegraphed...


Spoiler: such as...



the fact that the killer would find something out about the hairdresser having been at the hospital and - most of all - the ceiling coming down.



You do expect that in thriller/cop stories, the audience having more knowledge than the cops, but they are overdoing it a bit.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 5, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I think it's still really compelling - it's a tale of 2 faces really, the cops and the killers. Lingering shots of both of them with very still faces.  Same time, there were quite a few elements in that last episode that were overly telegraphed...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: such as...
> ...






Spoiler



the killer booked the hairdresser appointment


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The reason I think this isn't believable is that he is obsessive about control and secrecy (Ian Watkins was a chaotic meth addict), and she is unpredictable and unreliable.  She's already done things he didn't want her to.  I don't think he would trust anyone - but if he did, it would be someone far weaker.



He was a chaotic meth addict but he still held it together enough to go on tour with the band and sell millions and keep the rumours at bay for many years.. It wasn't as though he was going around announcing what he was doing to everyone...


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 11, 2014)

Bloody hell. I liked that episode. Glad that they have got the scumbag in custody. I thought the bit where the fash were chasing him and he killed one of them was good. Except I kind of wanted them all to die.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2014)

i kept waiting for the harrowing scenes we were promised


----------



## belboid (Dec 11, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Bloody hell. I liked that episode. Glad that they have got the scumbag in custody. I thought the bit where the fash were chasing him and he killed one of them was good. Except I kind of wanted them all to die.


Copper killed the bloke, didnt he? 

A decently paced episode, the look on his face as he was briefly allowed to walk away was priceless.

Another entirely surplus pseudo-lesbian flirtation thrown in tho.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 11, 2014)

belboid said:


> Copper killed the bloke, didnt he?
> 
> A decently paced episode, the look on his face s he was briefly allowed to walk away was priceless.
> 
> Another entirely surplus pseudo-lesbian flirtation thrown in tho.



Ah yea of course. 

Yeah, I wondered what that was all about at the end.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 11, 2014)

The bit where rose was being filmed? Nasty 


Pickman's model said:


> i kept waiting for the harrowing scenes we were promised


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> The bit where rose was being filmed? Nasty


yeh. but that was too obvious.


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 12, 2014)

belboid said:


> A decently paced episode, the look on his face as he was briefly allowed to walk away was priceless.


Can't wait for the last episode.

Jamie Dornan has so much promise as an actor - I hope 50 Shades doesn't fuck things up for him. Its either going to be a career maker and he'll become a global superstar or a career breaker and we'll never heard of him again.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 12, 2014)

belboid said:


> Copper killed the bloke, didnt he?
> 
> A decently paced episode, the look on his face as he was briefly allowed to walk away was priceless.



And the slow mo as he was being taken into the police station. You could almost see all the mad ideas rushing through his head.


----------



## Shirl (Dec 18, 2014)

Is he going to survive for another series?


----------



## JimW (Dec 18, 2014)

Shirl said:


> Is he going to survive for another series?


I fear so. Was alternately disappointed and annoyed through that.


----------



## Shirl (Dec 18, 2014)

JimW said:


> I fear so. Was alternately disappointed and annoyed through that.


I've been enjoying this series but this last episode didn't do it for me. I expect I'll end up watching the next one though.


----------



## JimW (Dec 18, 2014)

Shirl said:


> I've been enjoying this series but this last episode didn't do it for me. I expect I'll end up watching the next one though.


Similar feelings for me. Couldn't help being reminded of the scene in Hunger where Sands is talking to a priest in prison, real sense of two world-views clashing, and how less convincing as two independent human beings Stella and Spector seemed when she interviews him, more like the writer's cod philosophy hour.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 18, 2014)

I was impressed by the last episode seemed to be of a much higher level than the proceeding episodes many of which I couldn't watch.


----------



## JimW (Dec 18, 2014)

Suppose it was lucky the police chopper guided the mad wife-beater to his man,  and covered the sound of him crashing through the undergrowth.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 19, 2014)

What happened in the last 30 seconds?  (My recordings keep cutting ends of programmes out).  Last I saw was that the cop and Spector had been shot and then recording stopped


----------



## Shirl (Dec 19, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx
Not much happened. Spector was losing a lot of blood and looked like he was about to die but then the credits came up leaving the way open for him to have lived. I think the policeman was bleeding slightly less but there seemed less concern for him from Stella.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 19, 2014)

Cheers Shirl


----------



## coley (Dec 19, 2014)

Left enough openings for another series, it's been good but they are dragging it out.


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 19, 2014)

I really liked that. I loved the way Spectors face completely changed when he was talking to Stella - he bcame another person.

I do think they should just leave it there noe, though it might be interesting to see how they could continue the story.


----------



## gosub (Dec 19, 2014)

Is a third series, telegraph review gave that away at the weekend


----------



## trabuquera (Dec 19, 2014)

The need for an s3 really screwed with the drama making sense, imho. It should have ended here. The shooting of the fash was farfetched enough but this finale just makes no sense at all. Would have made a much better arc to tie up the loose ends and make the climactic confrontation between Spector and Stella into something really special.  But I did like the way the extended-length finale of s2 proper ramped up the drama before that snake vs eagle face-off in the interrogation room.
Liked s2 a lot more than s1 (where all those lovingly-photographed strangling scenes seemed to be more revelling in than illustrating the pathology imho) but it's still massively more smarty-pants and self-regarding than all the hype would have you believe. All got a bit too meta for me at times.

I still can't work out if Jamie Dornan is a decent actor or not, TBH. In this he just has to glower a lot and do occasional rage / frigid silence and it's good enough. He wasn't much cop at all in the C4 series New Worlds this year though - mind you, script and fellow actors weren't great either.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 23, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> The need for an s3 really screwed with the drama making sense, imho. It should have ended here. The shooting of the fash was farfetched enough but this finale just makes no sense at all. Would have made a much better arc to tie up the loose ends and make the climactic confrontation between Spector and Stella into something really special.  But I did like the way the extended-length finale of s2 proper ramped up the drama before that snake vs eagle face-off in the interrogation room.
> Liked s2 a lot more than s1 (where all those lovingly-photographed strangling scenes seemed to be more revelling in than illustrating the pathology imho) but it's still massively more smarty-pants and self-regarding than all the hype would have you believe. All got a bit too meta for me at times.
> 
> I still can't work out if Jamie Dornan is a decent actor or not, TBH. In this he just has to glower a lot and do occasional rage / frigid silence and it's good enough. He wasn't much cop at all in the C4 series New Worlds this year though - mind you, script and fellow actors weren't great either.


 Spot on (in every respect).


----------



## Wilf (Dec 23, 2014)

Shirl said:


> Minnie_the_Minx
> Not much happened. Spector was losing a lot of blood and looked like he was about to die but then the credits came up leaving the way open for him to have lived. I think the policeman was bleeding slightly less but there seemed less concern for him from Stella.


 I was wondering about that point. It followed on from her little speech to the detective she was shagging, about her detesting the killer, not having any interest in him.  When it came down to it though, even though she didn't need him to survive as they'd found his last victim alive, she seemed to be more interested in him than said detective.  Hope that's not the arc for the next series, though it looks like it will be.


----------



## Favelado (Mar 21, 2015)

There was a post about the band called The Fall here which has now been removed.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 21, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Pretty fucking funny if old.
> 
> http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/music/3331055
> 
> Follow link for full interview. Had me in stitches.


Think you've got the wrong thread


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## Favelado (Mar 21, 2015)

Haha. Fuck I have


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## Wilf (Mar 24, 2015)

I quite like the idea of DI Stella Gibson hunting down the deranged but influential Salford killer.


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## belboid (Aug 24, 2016)

Series 3 trailer out


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## Reno (Aug 24, 2016)

I thought season 2 was tedious and I wished they'd moved on to a new storyline. It's a shame because I really like Gillian Anderson in that role. Happy Valley did a far better job with its second series.


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## Nanker Phelge (Aug 25, 2016)

Reno said:


> I thought season 2 was tedious and I wished they'd moved on to a new storyline. It's a shame because I really like Gillian Anderson in that role. Happy Valley did a far better job with its second series.



Agreed on all counts. They wasted the 2nd series.


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## belboid (Aug 25, 2016)

2 had some moments (tho definitely NOT the lesbian kiss thrown in for nothing other than cheap titilation), but they really should have wrapped it up then. In fact, they should have wrapped it up after S1, given that a decent ending instead of the daft one they seemed to throw together when a second got commissioned.


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## Nanker Phelge (Aug 25, 2016)

It just became this unrealistic cat and mouse thriller that just wasn't very thrilling.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 25, 2016)

Pah, you're all miserable. It was great. Can't wait for the new series


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## Reno (Aug 25, 2016)

It feels like the most successful British crime series take serialisation a bit too far now. Both Broadchurch and The Fall stumbled with their second season because the case from season 1 kept dragging on. It would have been better to go Prime Suspect and have the crime element of any season be self-contained. Happy Valley did that as well, but it succeeded because the second season made the lives of its lead characters the main focus, while the crime story moved into the background.


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## 1%er (Sep 26, 2016)

For those who can't wait until Thursday the 29th Sept for the new series of The Fall to start, it was on RTE last night and is already online. The Fall season 3 episode 1 can be watched here.

The best links from this site are usually Vodlocker.com or allmyvideos.net. You will get a couple of pop-ups as you close the ads but you don't need to download anything or register to watch. If it says download this or register here it is an advert so just close it.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 29, 2016)

Starts tonight! 

No spoilers for from those watching it on RTE please


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## Shirl (Sep 29, 2016)

The bastards  I started watching Paranoid last week and although I doubt it's going to be as good as The Fall they are on at the same time. 
I'll probably watch Paranoid tonight because it's on ITV and I can't watch ITV Hub on my television. I'll catch the Fall on iPlayer on the tv another night.


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## Shirl (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm sick of Gillian Anderson whispering her way through every episode and just 'posing and looking into space' in soft focus. Half the time she's acting as if she's on the verge of an orgasm. She's supposed to be a copper fgs.
Give me Sarah Lancashire in Happy Valley any day.

I think this serious is just long drawn out drivel.   but I'm still watching


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## trashpony (Oct 20, 2016)

Paranoid on itv is better


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## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2016)

Fucking watching paint dry is more entertaining


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## Wilf (Oct 20, 2016)

I quite like slow telly and film, but this is taking the piss.  Not sure the police have done any police work yet in this one.  Also, not quite sure where the stuff with the nurse - his victim 'type' - is going to end up, obviously going to be a significant part of the story. However wherever they take it, they are telegraphing the fuck out of it with those lingering shots of her face.

edit: has it been on tonight? I must be an episode behind.


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## Shirl (Oct 21, 2016)

On last night Wilf


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I quite like slow telly and film, but this is taking the piss.  Not sure the police have done any police work yet in this one.  Also, not quite sure where the stuff with the nurse - his victim 'type' - is going to end up, obviously going to be a significant part of the story. However wherever they take it, they are telegraphing the fuck out of it with those lingering shots of her face.
> 
> edit: has it been on tonight? I must be an episode behind.


Catch up on BBC iplayer


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## Maharani (Oct 21, 2016)

Wilf said:


> I quite like slow telly and film, but this is taking the piss.  Not sure the police have done any police work yet in this one.  Also, not quite sure where the stuff with the nurse - his victim 'type' - is going to end up, obviously going to be a significant part of the story. However wherever they take it, they are telegraphing the fuck out of it with those lingering shots of her face.
> 
> edit: has it been on tonight? I must be an episode behind.


I'm actually quite enjoying this season but the dedicated nurse thing is a bit much...she can't possibly be there all that time without needing a break (maybe Jeremy Hunt got his way there) AND there's no way she'd be left alone with a serial killer that loves brunette women of her age bracket. I think she's going to get Stockholm syndrome for him.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2016)

Maharani said:


> I'm actually quite enjoying this season but the dedicated nurse thing is a bit much...she can't possibly be there all that time without needing a break (maybe Jeremy Hunt got his way there) AND there's no way she'd be left alone with a serial killer that loves brunette women of her age bracket. I think she's going to get Stockholm syndrome for him.



unlikely as she has been neither kidnapped nor taken hostage.


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 21, 2016)

Shirl said:


> I'm sick of Gillian Anderson whispering her way through every episode and just 'posing and looking into space' in soft focus. Half the time she's acting as if she's on the verge of an orgasm. She's supposed to be a copper fgs.
> Give me Sarah Lancashire in Happy Valley any day.
> 
> I think this serious is just long drawn out drivel.   but I'm still watching



I could watch Gillian Anderson doing that all day


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> I could watch Gillian Anderson doing that all day


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## Maharani (Oct 21, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 94189
> unlikely as she has been neither kidnapped nor taken hostage.


Who says she won't be?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Who says she won't be?


being as she has already fallen for him your point is moot. she's more likely to get nicked than kidnapped.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2016)

that note in full


Spoiler


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## Maharani (Oct 21, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> being as she has already fallen for him your point is moot. she's more likely to get nicked than kidnapped.


Do we know that she has?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Do we know that she has?


if she hasn't she's doing a damn good impression of it.


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## 1%er (Oct 26, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Fucking watching paint dry is more entertaining


Is that a comment about Paranoid or the fall? I'm only interested as I will not bother looking for Paranoid if it is crap


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## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2016)

1%er said:


> Is that a comment about Paranoid or the fall? I'm only interested as I will not bother looking for Paranoid if it is crap


The fall. I expected more from gillian anderson.


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## 1%er (Oct 26, 2016)

Just watched the penultimate episode, but will not give anything away. 

The final episode should be available on Friday night (not sure when it is on in the UK) but if I remember I'll post a link before I go out.


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## gosub (Oct 26, 2016)

1%er said:


> Just watched the penultimate episode, but will not give anything away.
> 
> The final episode should be available on Friday night (not sure when it is on in the UK) but if I remember I'll post a link before I go out.


being shown 9-10 on BBC2 Friday as well. Probably similbroadcast with RTE


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## 1%er (Oct 26, 2016)

gosub said:


> being shown 9-10 on BBC2 Friday as well. Probably similbroadcast with RTE


Thanks for that, I don't need to remember now


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## Shirl (Oct 27, 2016)

1%er said:


> Is that a comment about Paranoid or the fall? I'm only interested as I will not bother looking for Paranoid if it is crap


Paranoid is worth watching


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## Shirl (Oct 28, 2016)

I wasn't well last evening so needed to go to bed after The Fall but just as I was getting into bed wolfie said that Paranoid was on ITV+1  all these weeks and I could have watched both on the same night


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## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2016)

That was shit


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## Shirl (Oct 28, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> That was shit


It could have been two episodes shorter without all the lingering soft focus shots of Anderson's face


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## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2016)

Shirl said:


> It could have been two episodes shorter without all the lingering soft focus shots of Anderson's face


Could have been a load of episodes shorter if they'd done the decent thing and not commissioned it


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## Shirl (Oct 28, 2016)

And another thing, absolutely no regard for police procedure


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## Wilf (Oct 29, 2016)

Shirl said:


> And another thing, absolutely no regard for police procedure


There was certainly a lot of 'this is Paul Spector, who has brutally murdered several women, though he _says_ he can't remember. I'd say it's probably okay for him to be left with a single female nurse/walk round the hospital with just the same nurse/go in the MRI room on his own/have a one to one with his shrink/take his meds unsupervised/walk out of the police interview room without cuffs'.  What could _possibly_ go wrong?  Maybe it's a post-Brexit thing, no need for all that namby pamby health and safety.


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## Wilf (Oct 29, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Could have been a load of episodes shorter if they'd done the decent thing and not commissioned it


NO!  I've just had a throat op and there could have been permanent damage to my voice. I was hoping for a prosperous future doing Gillian Anderson voiceovers. I've already had a call back from Frank's Factory Flooring.


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## felixthecat (Oct 29, 2016)

Disappointing


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## The Fornicator (Oct 30, 2016)

Intense. Not predictable. Thought provoking. Well made.

Also, not often you see a study in the_ very_ complicated world of female sexuality.


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 30, 2016)

It was overlong, desperately annoying, bordered on offensive and dreadfully hammy, but it did keep me interested until the end.

It's no Happy Valley, it's no Line of Duty, but it has done its time now and long may it stay dead.

The final Spector/Gibson showdown was over the top, and really indulged in everything the show has been heavily criticised for. 

That this character was given so much space to make those last moves was just daft.


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## trabuquera (Oct 31, 2016)

It was clunky droning pretentious witless bobbins is what it was. (And I found s1 intriguing with reservations, and was proper gripped by most of s2 until it got stupid at the end.) s3 a waste of space.


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## Shirl (Oct 31, 2016)

The Fornicator said:


> Intense. Not predictable. Thought provoking. Well made.
> 
> Also, not often you see a study in the_ very_ complicated world of female sexuality.


I must have missed that episode


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## Smokeandsteam (Nov 1, 2016)

Definitely a series too far.

Episode 1 was essentially Holby City. Episode 2-4 nothing much happened. Final two episodes were just ridiculous (do they have any police,guards, basic security in Belfast given he was the biggest serial killer in their history?) 

What annoys the most was the suggestion that this was thought provoking and weighty stuff and that there was a MESSAGE. The only thing I learned was not to waste 6 hours of my life on this sort of windy guff ever again


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## Reno (Nov 1, 2016)

Judging from how this went down, I'm glad I threw in the towel after season 2.


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## Wilf (Nov 1, 2016)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Definitely a series too far.
> 
> Episode 1 was essentially Holby City. Episode 2-4 nothing much happened. Final two episodes were just ridiculous (do they have any police,guards, basic security in Belfast given he was the biggest serial killer in their history?)
> 
> What annoys the most was the suggestion that this was thought provoking and weighty stuff and that there was a MESSAGE. The only thing I learned was not to waste 6 hours of my life on this sort of windy guff ever again


I should have been a good audience member for this, I normally love 'slow and atmospheric'.  Trouble is, slow + shit = long time viewing shit.


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## Wilf (Nov 1, 2016)

... and another thing (rant).... plotlines in crime TV/film are often a bit neat and mechanistic.  Even if the person you are briefly lead to believe was the killer turns out not to be, their situation is normally 'resolved', for example they become the next victim or a source of regret for the detective who pursued them.  In this one the nurse, who was his 'victim type', was prominent in the first few episodes.  Looked like she would be a further victim, or at least feature in some further development of the story. On the face of it, I quite like them not doing that and letting her just fade out of the series. But in the context of a story that just ran down to an unsatisfactory conclusion, it merely added to the pointlessness of the whole thing.


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## The Fornicator (Nov 1, 2016)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Definitely a series too far.
> 
> Episode 1 was essentially Holby City. Episode 2-4 nothing much happened. Final two episodes were just ridiculous (do they have any police,guards, basic security in Belfast given he was the biggest serial killer in their history?)
> 
> What annoys the most was the suggestion that this was thought provoking and weighty stuff and that there was a MESSAGE. The only thing I learned was not to waste 6 hours of my life on this sort of windy guff ever again


I wonder if the switch in focus and even genre was to ambitious, even for BBC2. Spector wasn't the point of S3 - his developmental arc barely moved from being shot to suicide, via surgery and Stella handing him his arse at their final meting.

But we learned an awful lot more about Stella, Rose Stagg and the Benedetto girl - perhaps different ages of femininity, and how their lives .. well never mind, people can work it out if they want. I guess we were kind of left with poor Olivia and history repeating.


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## Smokeandsteam (Nov 1, 2016)

Wilf said:


> ... and another thing (rant).... plotlines in crime TV/film are often a bit neat and mechanistic.  Even if the person you are briefly lead to believe was the killer turns out not to be, their situation is normally 'resolved', for example they become the next victim or a source of regret for the detective who pursued them.  In this one the nurse, who was his 'victim type', was prominent in the first few episodes.  Looked like she would be a further victim, or at least feature in some further development of the story. On the face of it, I quite like them not doing that and letting her just fade out of the series. But in the context of a story that just ran down to an unsatisfactory conclusion, it merely added to the pointlessness of the whole thing.



That was a paticular annoyance. They spent ages developing the relationship between her and Spector for absolutely no purpose.

They also spent time developing the doctor - his character went nowhere either.

I like slow burners but this was just bilge.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 1, 2016)

It did feel like they were just treading water for the whole series.


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## Wilf (Nov 1, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It did feel like they were just treading water for the whole series.


Was even more than the 'difficult 2nd 3rd album' thing.  Was almost as if they'd passed the same characters to a different writer/team of writers. Like one of those shit episodes of Dr Who.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 3, 2016)

Don't understand the lack of love for the 3rd series, I though it was brilliant. The slow pace building up the tension until that explosive final episode, it was superb.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 3, 2016)

That wasn't building up tension it was stretching out a flimsy conclusion for 6 episodes.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 3, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> That wasn't building up tension it was stretching out a flimsy conclusion for 6 episodes.


Why was it a flimsy conclusion? Spector had them all controlled, right to the very end of his choosing.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It did feel like they were just treading water for the whole series.


felt more like they were drowning


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 3, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Why was it a flimsy conclusion? Spector had them all controlled, right to the very end of his choosing.



Controlled how?


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## Wilf (Nov 3, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Why was it a flimsy conclusion? Spector had them all controlled, right to the very end of his choosing.


Not really, he lost control when they found out about the London killing. After that his amnesia thing fell apart.


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## 1%er (Nov 3, 2016)

Shirl said:


> Paranoid is worth watching


I've just watched it up to last weeks episode and enjoyed it thanks, there is an Australian series on at the moment called Hyde & Seek its worth a look, if you can't find it on the 'net let me know and I'll send you a link to the first 5 episodes (not sure if it is on UK TV) the other episodes will be on the same link as the show is aired.


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## Shirl (Nov 3, 2016)

1%er said:


> I've just watched it up to last weeks episode and enjoyed it thanks, there is an Australian series on at the moment called Hyde & Seek its worth a look, if you can't find it on the 'net let me know and I'll send you a link to the first 5 episodes (not sure if it is on UK TV) the other episodes will be on the same link as the show is aired.



I just googled Hyde and Seek and clicked the first thing that came up. I think it was Solar Movie sc. It seemed to start playing but I'm going out soon so didn't leave it on. Could it really be as easy as that to watch it?  It seemed too easy.
Thanks anyway, I'll give it a go


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## 1%er (Nov 3, 2016)

Shirl said:


> I just googled Hyde and Seek and clicked the first thing that came up. I think it was Solar Movie sc. It seemed to start playing but I'm going out soon so didn't leave it on. Could it really be as easy as that to watch it?  It seemed too easy.
> Thanks anyway, I'll give it a go


There are lots of old programs that come up if you just search "hyde & seek" most of which I now see have nothing to do the series I'm talking about. Here is a link to the first 5 episodes (There are 8 episodes but only 5 have aired) so you may want to wait until the whole series is online. It is an Australian series and when I started watching I thought it was going to be just another Muslim terrorist plot cop show, but it isn't. The best links for me were gorillavid.in or thevideo.me, you'll get a couple of pop-ups when loading but just close them, you don't need to download anything so don't!

Happy Birthday BTW


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 3, 2016)

Wilf said:


> Not really, he lost control when they found out about the London killing. After that his amnesia thing fell apart.


Even then though when he knew it was over he chose the way in which it all ended. He knew what Stella wanted/needed and denied it to her.


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## Shirl (Nov 3, 2016)

1%er said:


> There are lots of old programs that come up if you just search "hyde & seek" most of which I now see have nothing to do the series I'm talking about. Here is a link to the first 5 episodes (There are 8 episodes but only 5 have aired) so you may want to wait until the whole series is online. It is an Australian series and when I started watching I thought it was going to be just another Muslim terrorist plot cop show, but it isn't. The best links for me were gorillavid.in or thevideo.me, you'll get a couple of pop-ups when loading but just close them, you don't need to download anything so don't!
> 
> Happy Birthday BTW


Thanks  I'll check out the two links you've put above.


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## The Fornicator (Nov 3, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Even then though when he knew it was over he chose the way in which it all ended. He knew what Stella wanted/needed and denied it to her.


He thought he was in control from his hospital bed but Stella handed him his arse in their last meeting - after the link to London was revealed to him he had no angle left to play. Told him it was time to grow up, even. Why do you think he completely lost his temper and attacked her ..

His decision to commit suicide came after Spector asked the Swedish doctor if he could be cured. 

At that point he knew it was Life with no prospect of parole - the full Sutcliffe.


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 3, 2016)

The only story strand of any interest in the final series was the London murder and the stuff from the home that lead to it.....but even then I don't buy someone taking the rap for the London murder because he felt he 'owed' the 'Pretty Boy'.

It was half arsed from the start really. Series two was a real let down, series 3 had some interesting strands, but overall it was poor. 

Line of Duty is flawed, but it much better than The Fall. 

More Happy Valley is what we need. Treads many of The Falls themes without drowning in Stella's Wispy dream bath....


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## gosub (Nov 3, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> The only story strand of any interest in the final series was the London murder and the stuff from the home that lead to it.....but even then I don't buy someone taking the rap for the London murder because he felt he 'owed' the 'Pretty Boy'.
> 
> It was half arsed from the start really. Series two was a real let down, series 3 had some interesting strands, but overall it was poor.
> 
> ...


raise you with The Shadow Line


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## Nanker Phelge (Nov 3, 2016)

gosub said:


> raise you with The Shadow Line



Not seen. Will check.


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## belboid (Nov 7, 2016)

Finally finished it.  i thought the penultimate episode was really good, Spector's little tics as he realised he was losing control were excellent. His control over other characters entirely in keeping with everything we had learnt about him over the previous  16 hours. His reactions as they would have been. Even the wandering around relatively freely isn't the surprising - it's Norn Iron, their prison guards have had to deal with some pretty unmellow people. But those lat twenty minutes...I couldn't quite but it.  Maybe it's because Dornan is just utterly unsympathetic as an actor, but I could never really believe he could exhibit that control over others, I know we were told regularly that he could and did, but I just have no idea why.  Still, there are worse things out there. Like the second series.


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