# Where does the real north begin?



## Firky (Oct 30, 2007)

For me it is anything north of York. Everything below that is the midlands or the south.


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## laptop (Oct 30, 2007)

1km north of wherever Firky is.


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## Stig (Oct 30, 2007)

anything upwards of brum or leicester is the grim north.


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 30, 2007)

Hmm, I'd say Derby and Nottingham were still the Midlands. North starts at Yorkshire, in that part of the country anyway.


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## Firky (Oct 30, 2007)

Stig said:
			
		

> anything upwards of brum or leicester is the grim north.



Brum is south.


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 30, 2007)

It partly depends whether we're dividing the country in two or three. Assuming three from the original posting, Birmingham has to be the Midlands if nothing else is.


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## Firky (Oct 30, 2007)

made a map, brum is further north than I thought:


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## Roadkill (Oct 30, 2007)

We've had this argument before, and here's what we settled on:






Except that I'd draw the line in the east about twenty miles south of the Humber: IMO Grimsby is a northern town, whereas Lincoln is getting a bit more Midlands...


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## Kanda (Oct 30, 2007)

Wherever it is, it's shit!


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## Firky (Oct 30, 2007)

Roadkill said:
			
		

> We've had this argument before, and here's what we settled on:
> 
> Except that I'd draw the line in the east about twenty miles south of the Humber: IMO Grimsby is a northern town, whereas Lincoln is getting a bit more Midlands...



Liverpool is so midlands it hurts. Grimsby is shit 

I am more northern than any of you lot, am well 'ard


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 30, 2007)

Are you actually in the Cheviots, as your map alleges?


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## hippogriff (Oct 30, 2007)

Every fule knoes that the North starts at Watford


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## Tank Girl (Oct 30, 2007)

north of winchester.


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## twisted_angel (Oct 30, 2007)

firky said:
			
		

> Liverpool is so midlands it hurts. Grimsby is shit
> 
> I am more northern than any of you lot, am well 'ard


Liverpool is not midlands!..anywhere from Yorkshire up is north.


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## dessiato (Oct 30, 2007)

According to my students I am living in the north, I therefore claim to be the most southerly northerner. Unless, of course, you know different.


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## JTG (Oct 30, 2007)

it doesn't matter. all that matters is that the West starts at Swindon/Gloucester (depending on where you're coming from) and is entirely different from the South (which is shit)


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## Firky (Oct 30, 2007)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> Are you actually in the Cheviots, as your map alleges?



Yup! Live inside the national park.


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## story (Oct 30, 2007)

North starts at the Thames.


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## wiskey (Oct 30, 2007)

watford


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## mauvais (Oct 30, 2007)

A bendy line under Ellesmere Port, Stockport, Sheffield, Doncaster and Hull.






There.


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## Roadkill (Oct 30, 2007)

Fair enough - except in the east, why shouldn't it just follow the Humber estuary?


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## mauvais (Oct 30, 2007)

I was bored by that point


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## Hi-ASL (Oct 30, 2007)

Nottingham's about right in a suspect hybrid way, with a much lower pedigree than the cities up the road. Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool are indisputably North Proper.


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## mauvais (Oct 30, 2007)

Nah, Nottingham's definitely Midlands - it's in East Midlands - as is Mansfield. Chesterfield's more suspect.


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## 8ball (Oct 30, 2007)

Nottingham's pretty much bang in the middle.

I think the bendy line should go under Chester.


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## mauvais (Oct 30, 2007)

I deliberately avoided Chester cos it's not proper Northern - it's got money and posh accents  

If it was a country it'd be San Marino, and I'd enforce sanctions on it and have them slowly starve


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## 8ball (Oct 30, 2007)

Posh accents in Chester?


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## mauvais (Oct 30, 2007)

8ball said:
			
		

> Posh accents in Chester?


Cheshire even. Plus Hollyoaks is there and is I assume an entirely realistic representation of the town, a view with which the International War Crimes Tribunal will hopefully agree.


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## yield (Oct 30, 2007)

Northumberland, Durham and Cumbria are the North.

Yorkshire and Lancashire are in the Midlands

Line between Kings Lynn and Bristol to show the South.


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## mauvais (Oct 30, 2007)

yield said:
			
		

> Northumberland, Durham and Cumbria are the North.
> 
> Yorkshire and Lancashire are in the Midlands


I hate these southern wazzocks who think the North is past the fucking Watford Gap, but I also hate these Geordie types who think owt south of Rockall is the fucking Midlands


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## Lock&Light (Oct 30, 2007)

I always thought the North began with Balloch, on the southern shores of Loch Lomond.


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## Hi-ASL (Oct 30, 2007)

mauvais said:
			
		

> I hate these southern wazzocks who think the North is past the fucking Watford Gap, but I also hate these Geordie types who think owt south of Rockall is the fucking Midlands


Wo, as they say, rd.


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## soulman (Oct 30, 2007)

Hi-ASL said:
			
		

> Nottingham's about right in a suspect hybrid way, with a much lower pedigree than the cities up the road. Leeds, Manchester and Liverpool are indisputably North Proper.



I'd go with this. I reckon once you reach the Pennines you're in The North. Merseyside, Manchester, Lancashire and going up in to The Lakes are all the North West. Cross the Pennines and you're in the North East.


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## JTG (Oct 30, 2007)

That would put Yorkshire in the North East, which it clearly isn't. It's Yorkshire.


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## soulman (Oct 31, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> That would put Yorkshire in the North East, which it clearly isn't. It's Yorkshire.



It would put parts of Yorkshire in the North East. Certainly the North Riding and East Riding. The West Riding is spread over the Pennines and I've always considered it part of the North West.


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## Firky (Oct 31, 2007)

soulman said:
			
		

> It would put parts of Yorkshire in the North East.


   

fighting talk


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## soulman (Oct 31, 2007)

firky said:
			
		

> fighting talk



Looking at your funny little map I reckon the northern most point of England is Carlisle. Anything above that is really Scotland


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 31, 2007)

For us, it's anything north of the North Shore Mountains, which are visible from downtown Vancouver. So that means about 2000 miles of 'north'.


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## rover07 (Oct 31, 2007)

Gatwick is the gateway to the North...


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## Firky (Oct 31, 2007)

soulman said:
			
		

> Looking at your funny little map I reckon the northern most point of England is Carlisle. Anything above that is really Scotland



I am further north than Carlisle and still in England. My great grandad used to drive sheep and cattle from here to Carlisle and Aberdeen on foot!


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## aqua (Oct 31, 2007)

mauvais said:
			
		

> I was bored by that point


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## Yetman (Oct 31, 2007)

twisted_angel said:
			
		

> Liverpool is not midlands!..anywhere from Yorkshire up is north.



Exactly

And the amount of times I get called a northerner by you southern bastards......


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## King Biscuit Time (Oct 31, 2007)

Derby - Midlands
Chesterfield - Up for debate
Sheffield - First town thats indisputably Northern.


For the western side of the country see Stoke, Chester and Manchester.

(oh, and Bristol is in the Westcountry, but it's not in the South West)


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## felixthecat (Oct 31, 2007)

mauvais said:
			
		

> I hate these southern wazzocks who think the North is past the fucking Watford Gap,



Thats me  . Anything further up than Gloucester I consider to be the dark and mysterious 'North'.

and as for 'East' - well, then you lose me 


THing is, my world geography is shit hot, but my knowledge of the geography of my own country is shocking.


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## zenie (Oct 31, 2007)

JTG said:
			
		

> it doesn't matter. all that matters is that the West starts at Swindon/Gloucester (depending on where you're coming from) and is entirely different from the South (which is shit)


 
I thought you wanted to move to London?   

Watford Gap services for me - I'm slightly worried about going to Bristol   

I like those sevice too, shame you're on your way too the midlands/north when you go there though!


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## King Biscuit Time (Oct 31, 2007)

And South Wales is very similar to the North in all the key ways

Gravy in chippys - Check
Working men's clubs - Check
Unintelligible dialect - Check

So all of Wales is in the North.


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## Belushi (Oct 31, 2007)

The Thames.


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## Roadkill (Oct 31, 2007)

This article by Simon Jenkins seems somehow relevant to some of what's being said on this thread...


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## Mallard (Oct 31, 2007)

What Roadkill said. The exhibition at Salford put Worcester in the north which I just can't get my head round. Chesterfield and all of Derbyshire is in the East Midlands as is Notts! Some people used to say north of the Trent if they were looking for a north/south divide ignoring the existence of the midlands. I remember reading somewhere that there's a median population line which is just south of Burton-on Trent. I'd say South Yorkshire myself.


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 31, 2007)

firky said:
			
		

> Yup! Live inside the national park.


What, as some sort of wild creature or something?


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## JTG (Oct 31, 2007)

King Biscuit Time said:
			
		

> (oh, and Bristol is in the Westcountry, but it's not in the South West)



Absolutely - though West Country is spelled as two words not one 

South West starts somewhere beyond Taunton.


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 31, 2007)

self said:
			
		

> What, as some sort of wild creature or something?


Something like this?


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## Firky (Oct 31, 2007)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> What, as some sort of wild creature or something?



There's some good folklore around these parts, so possibly.

This is the _real_ north:










I miss my camera


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 31, 2007)

Surely that's a fucking golf course?


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## Kanda (Oct 31, 2007)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> Surely that's a fucking golf course?



No, it should be. Then Firky can collect golf balls and sell them.


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 31, 2007)

So that's not a bunker alongside a green on the far left of the lefthand picture?


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## Firky (Oct 31, 2007)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> Surely that's a fucking golf course?



Iron age fort type thing.


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## sam/phallocrat (Nov 1, 2007)

The north, as most sensible people seem to agree, starts at around Chesterfield (Chezvegas).


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## danny la rouge (Nov 1, 2007)

The north in fact starts just beyond Stirling.  The south starts round about Falkirk.


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## subversplat (Nov 1, 2007)

Northampton.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 1, 2007)

im from there, northernes consider me southern and southerns think me northern.


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## Firky (Nov 1, 2007)

everyone is south of me, am so northern i shit whippets


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## SpookyFrank (Nov 1, 2007)

sam/phallocrat said:
			
		

> The north, as most sensible people seem to agree, starts at around Chesterfield (Chezvegas).



Sounds about right, somewhere between Sheffield and Nottingham definitely.


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## Firky (Nov 2, 2007)

Always amuses me that no one is aware that there's a place (big one at that) beyond Newcastle. It as if people's geography stops at Newcastle.


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## WouldBe (Nov 2, 2007)

firky said:
			
		

> Always amuses me that no one is aware that there's a place (big one at that) beyond Newcastle.


Scotland.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2007)

firky said:
			
		

> Always amuses me that no one is aware that there's a place (big one at that) beyond Newcastle.


Yes, there's quite a bit of South before you get as far South as Newcastle.


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## Firky (Nov 2, 2007)

WouldBe said:
			
		

> Scotland.



To be honest I'd rather be Scottish than English 




			
				danny la rouge said:
			
		

> Yes, there's quite a bit of South before you get as far South as Newcastle.



Yup, one of England's largest counties and certainly the most rural. It is shit.


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## bluestreak (Nov 2, 2007)

hippogriff said:
			
		

> Every fule knoes that the North starts at Watford


 
QFTW


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## Yetman (Nov 2, 2007)

bluestreak said:
			
		

> QFTW



Quoted for the weasels


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## WouldBe (Nov 2, 2007)

firky said:
			
		

> To be honest I'd rather be Scottish than English


Mmmmm, firky in a kilt.


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## Guineveretoo (Nov 2, 2007)

soulman said:
			
		

> It would put parts of Yorkshire in the North East. Certainly the North Riding and East Riding. The West Riding is spread over the Pennines and I've always considered it part of the North West.



You don't really think Yorkshire is still divided into "ridings", do you?


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## Firky (Nov 2, 2007)

WouldBe said:
			
		

> Mmmmm, firky in a kilt.



My family has its own tartan


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## Stanley Edwards (Nov 2, 2007)

I always started getting chilly just above Derby. These days anywhere north of Madrid is a bit to cold.


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## Fez909 (Nov 3, 2007)

Who gives a fuck.  You're either northern, or you aren't.  Most people know if they are, or otherwise.  

"I'm 20% more northern and 15% more working class than you!"


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## maldwyn (Nov 3, 2007)

I'd say Highbury Corner.


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## soulman (Nov 3, 2007)

Guineveretoo said:
			
		

> You don't really think Yorkshire is still divided into "ridings", do you?



No


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## JTG (Nov 3, 2007)

firky said:
			
		

> To be honest I'd rather be Scottish than English


to all intents and purposes you are. people from Newcastle and surrounds are just Scots without the wit charm and personality


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## Firky (Nov 3, 2007)

Where as you lot are bred for one thing: drinking scrumpy horizontaly


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## moonsi til (Jan 13, 2008)

I just finished Stuart Maconies book 'Pies and Prejudice' where he goes off in search of the North. It was a very good read...opened my eyes to the 'im more northern than you' from folk from Newcastle way.

If I recall correctly Stuart had the North starting in Crewe.


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## Hocus Eye. (Jan 13, 2008)

The famous saying "north of Watford" comes to mind.  However many people when they hear the name Watford start to talk of Watford Gap.  Watford is in Hertfordshire whereas Watford Gap - best known for a service station is in *North*hampton.  Watford Gap is about 70 miles north of Watford so it must be in the north.

I remember many years ago travelling north through Britain from Cardiff in a mini bus.  We kept seeing signs saying "To The North" No matter how far you went there was always another sign saying this.  As we crossed the Scottish border I expected these signs to end but no, they continued all the way up as far as we went.  We were heading for the Isle of Skye.


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## moose (Jan 14, 2008)

Roadkill said:
			
		

> We've had this argument before, and here's what we settled on:


I'm in the gap between the Norf and the Midlandz


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## northernhord (Jan 14, 2008)

^ that Map is bollocks, ask people in Cheshire if they are Midlanders, they would be up in arms


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## Mallard (Jan 14, 2008)

northernhord said:
			
		

> ^ that Map is bollocks, ask people in Cheshire if they are Midlanders, they would be up in arms



Tbh I'd agree with it. Geographically and culturally, Cheshire is South of Lincs and certainly most of it seems far more 'southern' than North Derbyshire and North Notts to me. The north surely starts at Lancs/Yorks anything below is the Midlands.


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## citygirl (Jan 14, 2008)

Sheffield. 

and being Norvern is more about an attitude than it is geography   

and by your reckoning firky. i'm not even IN the north...


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## StanSmith (Jan 18, 2008)

I would go with the Crewe option for sure.


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## blossie33 (Jan 18, 2008)

Being a Midlander I class Midlands as Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Leicestershire (including Rutland), Hereford and Gloucester, Oxfordshire and Shropshire.

North of that is 'north' and south is 'south'  
Lincolnshire I would think of as 'east' just to confuse the issue.

eta. forgot to include Notts


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## quimcunx (Jan 18, 2008)

the border between scotland and england.

you're all southern bastards to me.


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## Roadkill (Jan 18, 2008)

blossie33 said:
			
		

> Being a Midlander I class Midlands as Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Derbyshire, Staffordshire, Leicestershire (including Rutland), Hereford and Gloucester, Oxfordshire and Shropshire.
> 
> North of that is 'north' and south is 'south'
> Lincolnshire I would think of as 'east' just to confuse the issue.
> ...



Northamptonshire?


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## blossie33 (Jan 18, 2008)

Roadkill said:
			
		

> Northamptonshire?



Yes, Midlands - forgot about that one.


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## Mallard (Jan 18, 2008)

Papingo said:
			
		

> the border between scotland and england.
> 
> you're all southern bastards to me.



Saving to rebuild Hadrian's Wall!


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## Mallard (Jan 18, 2008)

blossie33 said:
			
		

> Oxfordshire
> 
> North of that is 'north' and south is 'south'
> Lincolnshire I would think of as 'east' just to confuse the issue.
> ...



Surely Oxfordshire is the South both geographically and certainly culturally. Gloucester is in the South West surely?


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## blossie33 (Jan 18, 2008)

Mallard said:
			
		

> Surely Oxfordshire is the South both geographically and certainly culturally. Gloucester is in the South West surely?




Hmmm....   bit debatable I agree but I have always thought of Gloucester and Oxford as being Midlands.
That's just my personal opinion though.


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## timebomb (Jan 23, 2008)

I only came here to find a thread I need to read since I'm going to the north for about the third time ever soon.

However the title of this thread interested me so I clicked.......anyway......somebody take EAST ANGLIA out of the south please on all these maps.


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## Mallard (Jan 24, 2008)

timebomb said:
			
		

> However the title of this thread interested me so I clicked.......anyway......somebody take EAST ANGLIA out of the south please on all these maps.



Where would you class East Anglia as being time?


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## Louis MacNeice (Jan 24, 2008)

The Weald.

Louis MacNeice


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## WouldBe (Jan 24, 2008)

Mallard said:
			
		

> Where would you class East Anglia as being time?


East. Obviously.


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## fractionMan (Jan 24, 2008)

anywhere above bristol is up north as far as I'm concerned.


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## Mallard (Jan 24, 2008)

fractionMan said:
			
		

> anywhere above bristol is up north as far as I'm concerned.


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## timebomb (Feb 5, 2008)

WouldBe said:


> East. Obviously.



Exactly. It stands alone.


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## heinous seamus (Feb 5, 2008)

firky said:


> made a map, brum is further north than I thought:



Quite close to the border. Want to come up to my bit?


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## Aphex (Feb 29, 2008)

citygirl said:


> Sheffield.
> 
> and being Norvern is more about an attitude than it is geography
> 
> and by your reckoning firky. i'm not even IN the north...



Yeah I'd have to say us Sheffielders are where the North starts.


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## 8ball (Feb 29, 2008)

Aphex said:


> Yeah I'd have to say us Sheffielders are where the North starts.



Actually, yeah - I think I'd put the border there too.


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## skaboy (Mar 16, 2008)

i would say anywhere further north than sheffield. I got family who live in both sheffield and chesterfield, and the ones that live in sheffield consider themselves from the north and the ones from chesterfield consider themselves from the east midlands. 

Even they are a stones throw apart from each other!


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## skaboy (Mar 16, 2008)

Also, i think us midlanders are in the best position to judge where the north starts and where the south starts, seeing as we are in the middle of both of you.

Im living in plymouth at the moment and when we(leicester city) played plymouth i got called a dirty northern bastard! Ignorant janners


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