# The Tuts make dubious allegations after Brixton Windmill gig



## ethel (Jul 5, 2012)

A guy I know put on a gig at the windmill last night. It ended with an allegation of assault and racial abuse of one of the band members from one of the people related to the venue.

of course this is all over twitter and people are calling for a boycott (allegedly, similar incidents have happened before).

it's all a bit scary and sad.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Don't the tweets say what went on?


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## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Tweets saying landlord assaulted two women and was racist. They are only tweets (so don't take it as fact) but sounds like some unpleasantness and the police were called. Most of the stuff on twitter is people telling others to boycott it.


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## ethel (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie I wasn't sure what I could say legally but badgers has done it for me 

I always felt that the windmill was an inclusive, open venue. Apparently not


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## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

Only if you rely on what people say on twitter... it's hardly a reliable news source is it?


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## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

It sure doesn't sound too good. 

You can get some of the background here:
https://twitter.com/#!/simonairish
https://twitter.com/#!/emma_doubleyou
https://twitter.com/#!/TheyAllLaughed


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## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't think there is a legal thing there. I am saying what the tweets say, not a statement of fact. Either way it is sad


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## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:
			
		

> Only if you rely on what people say on twitter... it's hardly a reliable news source is it?



No. But it is usually a good indication. It annoys me when people just re tweet or spin rumour so sorry if my post above upsets. Does not read like hysteria or malice to me. Then again I was not there.


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

used the P word whilst dragging a woman by her hair allegedly, nice.

i think 'all over twitter' is pushing it a bit though. its a very small group of indie people going on about it.

bit fatal to the venue though, regardless of what happened


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## 5t3IIa (Jul 5, 2012)

Is the 'p word' = Paki?


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Is the 'p word' = Paki?


 
that or 'paddy' but one would assume the former.


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## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Only if you rely on what people say on twitter... it's hardly a reliable news source is it?


Generally no, but when several people are corroborating the same story then it suggests there might be something in it.

Either way, the Windmill has got a bit of a PR disaster on their hands. Let's hope they can resolve it because it's a good venue.


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Blimey, I was supposed to meet someone for a drink there last night but never made it, I'll ask my friend if she witnessed anything.


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## ethel (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Only if you rely on what people say on twitter... it's hardly a reliable news source is it?


I know some of the people involved though. They aren't the type to just invent stuff.


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## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

Before anyone starts pointing the finger at TwistedAM, I should point out that had nothing to do with any of this!


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Before anyone starts pointing the finger at TwistedAM, I should point out that had nothing to do with any of this!


 
if he is the booker referred to, he is clearly absolved of blame on the tweets


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 5, 2012)

Interesting that the police were called, but, despite lots of witnesses, no arrests were made. Which possibly indicates it was a small argument that got stupidly out of hand (easy when you've been drinking all night) or no one was willing to make a complaint to the police. Some people say they've been "assaulted" when they've had a little push in the chest...hard to speculate without hearing both side of the story.



5t3IIa said:


> Is the 'p word' = Paki?


 


Dan U said:


> that or 'paddy' but one would assume the former.


A few of the people on twitter appear to be Irish so it could be the latter.

In years of going to the Windmill, I've never seen/experienced anything like that.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Interesting that the police were called, but, despite lots of witnesses, no arrests were made. Which possibly indicates it was a small argument that got stupidly out of hand (easy when you've been drinking all night) or no one was willing to make a complaint to the police.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Referring to an Asian looking girl as a paddy?


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Interesting that the police were called, but, despite lots of witnesses, no arrests were made. Which possibly indicates it was a small argument that got stupidly out of hand (easy when you've been drinking all night) or no one was willing to make a complaint to the police.


Exactly, it all sounds a bit iffy to me tbh


> A few of the people on twitter appear to be Irish so it could be the latter


I seriously doubt that


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## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:
			
		

> Interesting that the police were called, but, despite lots of witnesses, no arrests were made. Which possibly indicates it was a small argument that got stupidly out of hand (easy when you've been drinking all night) or no one was willing to make a complaint to the police.



I read that too. Should never speculate on these matters. The police reputation with racism has been tarnished for sure. However I was in another Brixton pub last week when they took a racist incident very seriously.


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## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

It's taken me a while to realise who TwistedAM is in real life, which is a bit of a face palm on my part. 

Shame to hear about those accusations though.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Referring to an Asian looking girl as a paddy?


Oh, didnt realise the singer was Asian. Ignore me!


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I read that too. Should never speculate on these matters. The police reputation with racism has been tarnished for sure. However I was in another Brixton pub last week when they took a racist incident very seriously.


 
Was less than impressed with the Beehive's attitude to a particularly nasty racist incident last week, although it did get dealt with eventually. It was enough to put me off going back there again.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 5, 2012)

Doesn't sound good but until someone who was actually there tell us what happened it's hard to know really. All a bit fragmentary on twitter which is why i don't like twitter.


> well to be fair Nadia from The Tuts was very much out of it but they stretched "reasonable force" to the limits.


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

just googled the band, v unlikely it was 'paddy' that was allegedly used


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 5, 2012)

Does anyone know the landlord of the Windmill? They might want to point out to him the various tweets that have been going round - because it's either a PR disaster/crime or a load of potentially libellous stuff...

Brixton Blog have been sniffing round the story, asking people to get in touch if they know anything


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Oh, didnt realise the singer was Asian. Ignore me!


 
I only discovered that after googling


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Oh, didnt realise the singer was Asian. Ignore me!


 
Of course, they could be Asian looking paddies


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## ethel (Jul 5, 2012)

On twitter it was reported that police said "they either arrest him AND everyone who witnessed it because they 'can't take sides' or no one."

And 
"Never seen anything like it anywhere before, he pulled her hair &; chased her round room. 4/5men trying to get him off her."


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## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Does anyone know the landlord of the Windmill?


Pretty sure he would have been made aware of it by now.


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## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Dan U said:
			
		

> just googled the band, v unlikely it was 'paddy' that was allegedly used



Plus the Windmill is Irish owned or run I thought.


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## clandestino (Jul 5, 2012)

Very shocking. I'd like to hear the full story, but no matter what the provocation, physical assault and racist abuse is bang out of order. There was "a disagreement over a bottle" apparently, but how that escalated is unclear...


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 5, 2012)

Reading through all the tweets again it sounds like someone/some people may have got drunk, may have got told off landlord, big brawl/argument ensues and gets out of hand....seen it so many times before.

There's nothing stopping the complainant going back to the police and reporting it again, with details of witnesses.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

this is upsetting.


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm a bit dubious about all this, the band's original tweet last night didn't mention racism at all, and from what I know of Saemus it's not the kind of thing he'd ever say.

Just looking at the band's facebook page too and going by what they say about themselves, it seems that trouble follows them around quite a bit. 

Still waiting to hear back from my friend who was there, I'll reserve any judgement until then.


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

http://silentpunk.tumblr.com/post/26551193275/i-know-it-should-be-the-least-of-my-concerns



> I know it should be the least of my concerns
> 
> But how annoying is it that after my friend was assaulted and racially abused last night by the landlord of the pub she did a gig at, some people are talking about ‘his motivation’ … as if it was only bad if he did it for ‘no reason’: ‘oh, unprovoked?’ like if he just flipped. Obviously he was an angry man and everyone knows that, it’s just insulting that she would have to go over the reasons that it ‘might have been justified’.
> 
> ...


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

The Windmill is perfectly reasonably priced


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The Windmill is perfectly reasonably priced


 
only Onket can judge that


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## JenCMW (Jul 5, 2012)

From someone who was there: apparently the landlord was unhappy with the singer of the Tuts bringing her own alcohol in and drinking it onstage (maybe buy the band drinks next time?) so instead of just saying this to her he rather weirdly got up in her face calling her 'an arsehole' seemingly appropos of nothing. She had no idea who this guy was, said 'fuck off' as you would, and he then proceeded to attack her physically. Several men had to pull him off her as she tried to get away but he chased her and grabbed her by the hair.  He grabbed or manhandled anyone who confronted him after that (e.g. asking for an apology, calling him sick, calling him a dick etc.). Someone called the police, but by the time they arrived, Nadia, the singer had been taken away by her friends because she was in quite a state. So she was in no condition to make a statement. A few of us made statements to the police but they didn't seem that bothered, even when the landlord started ranting about 'that paki' in front of them. 

It was all very very upsetting, there was no 'fight', no 'heated argument', no drunken gig goers just a very violent racist/sexist man looking for an excuse to hit a small young woman. 
If you give a shit, boycott the Windmill and tell people what happened.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Dan U said:


> only Onket can judge that


 
They don't serve lasagne


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The Windmill is perfectly reasonably priced


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 5, 2012)

JenCMW said:


> From someone who was there: apparently the landlord was unhappy with the singer of the Tuts bringing her own alcohol in and drinking it onstage (maybe buy the band drinks next time?) so instead of just saying this to her he rather weirdly got up in her face calling her 'an arsehole' seemingly appropos of nothing. She had no idea who this guy was, said 'fuck off' as you would, and he then proceeded to attack her physically. Several men had to pull him off her as she tried to get away but he chased her and grabbed her by the hair. He grabbed or manhandled anyone who confronted him after that (e.g. asking for an apology, calling him sick, calling him a dick etc.). Someone called the police, but by the time they arrived, Nadia, the singer had been taken away by her friends because she was in quite a state. So she was in no condition to make a statement. A few of us made statements to the police but they didn't seem that bothered, even when the landlord started ranting about 'that paki' in front of them.
> 
> It was all very very upsetting, there was no 'fight', no 'heated argument', no drunken gig goers just a very violent racist/sexist man looking for an excuse to hit a small young woman.
> If you give a shit, boycott the Windmill and tell people what happened.


Thanks for posting. If you/the singer feel that strongly about it, you should go back to the police and report it again, with details of the witnesses. It's generally better to report these things in a calm situation, rather than in the heat of the moment IMO. A lot of people are very supportive of the Windmill and probably won't join a boycott without hearing the other side of the story. As stated above, there's never an excuse for physical/racial abuse....it's just sad how these things happen when drink is involved.

Free the weed!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


>


 
Last of the big spenders eh?


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## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

I neglect to see the Windmill's very good drinks pricing as being justification for what happened. Those drinks were two cokes so lets not go bad about the great prices either.

I am very sad that after so much testimony members of this forum seem to think that these are "rumours" and are "dubious".  I along with others will be fully boycotting the venue and have no intention of going back. A show has already been pulled today and last nights show was very close to being pulled half-way through.

Anyway, I tried to write an objective view of what happened last night. As someone who was personally involved I know this is difficult but I have tried my best.




> The events that occurred, as far as I am aware, were between the following people – Seamus, Windmill landlord, Nadia, The Tuts singer, Matthew, Me hi!, and Perkie, fellow musician friend of The Tuts not in the band. I should state at this point that beyond being a fan of The Tuts and living very near them, which is quite a novelty if you are from a Middlesex suburb, prior to the gig I had never met them.
> 
> Throughout The Tuts set Nadia, from the band, had clearly had a lot to drink, she offered members of the audience a sip of her vodka Smirnoff bottle and,most hilariously, asked one my friends his ethnic origin to which her response was “nice”. At this point nothing happened, the vodka remained on the stage and the band continued their set.
> 
> ...


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

ok, in no way defending the guy for his language or actions, but the band normally get a rider (in all the times i've played there i always have and the bands always have) and if you take outside drinks into a pub you're going to get thrown out.  acting like a dick about it is going to get you thrown out harder.  i've no sympathy for her on that front, expecting special treatment to be a dick in the guy's pub is really shitty.  what i do have a lot of anger about is racist language.  i've never, in all my time there, seen anything like that and would be really angry if that was true.


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## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

I was the promoter at the venue the Windmill last night.

Here's what I know. The Tuts finished their set, their singer was a little drunk I'd say. She had apparently brought in her own bottle of Vodka (unknown to me). I had stepped outside to get the next band ready etc. Then I see the singer and friends being thrown out of the side door.

After asking what happened I was told their was an altercation between the landlord and the singer. I was outside so can't say what happened with any certainty. I have no idea what was said and who did what. At some point after this the police were called. I wasn't party to these conversations. The singer had left when they arrived although a few friends/other band members were still there. The Landlord was involved in a heated exchange with some people at the front of the venue when his actions were questioned. The Landlord said everyone bar the singer was allowed to come back in.

I gave the other two bands that were left to play the option of cancelling the show, they thought it best the show went on (One of the bands was playing London for the first time and are over from the USA).

The Tuts arrived 15 minutes before they were due on stage. There was no rider as I prefer to pay the bands decent money than spend it on cheap booze. If I was to provide a rider, I'd have less money to pay the bands. That's the way all of my shows at The Windmill have run previously with no issues.

As a promoter I've booked and enjoyed the venue many times with no trouble. Sadly, last night will be the last time I use the venue for my shows as I'll not be able to get my crowd back at the venue.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

actually, i was defending some of his actions.  i think it's reasonable to use force to remove someone from your pub who is refusing to leave or causing trouble.


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Taking screenshots of things you've said in public ?


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## simsimsim (Jul 5, 2012)

May I just interject here and say that I find it really creepy that my twitter has been- as someone put- 'mockingly screenshotted' and the events discussed here yet no one contacted me directly via twitter for any clarification. As has been suggested by my friends on twitter, I find the attitude of this forum thread EXTREMELY sexist and quick to dismiss the events as 'a brawl' simply because The Windmill is in _your _area.

No matter the reasons for the events and whether or not you personally regard the landlord's actions as justified or unjustified, it all boils down to the fact I witnessed a fully grown man assault a woman and I no longer feel safe at The Windmill. This is not the first time there have been reports of unprovoked aggression from the landlord and I feel upset that his violent and aggressive actions managed to make me feel unsafe in a venue that I have previously enjoyed attending.

My comment regarding the price of drinks was completely misinterpreted here- I am not arguing whether the bar is reasonably priced or not as this is irrelevant. I was simply stating that I regret and do not wish to contribute financially to such a venue, putting money in this man's pocket.


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## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

Nadia sounds like an arsehole tbh


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## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Nadia sounds like an arsehole tbh


 
Women gets attacked by hair. WHAT A BITCH.

Would you like to give an opinion on the man who attempted to punch me for saying that I was never going to go to his venue again having seen what I did? No?


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## simsimsim (Jul 5, 2012)

Also, RiverDrew, I have completely NO understanding about why MY twitter specifically has been screenshotted yet other people have simply been quoted. I assume this is because I am female and seen as an easy target for an internet argument or abuse campaign. You were not at The Windmill last night. You have no connection to the event but you seem to be disproportionately obsessed with it.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't think there's loads of people on here disbelieving the story.  I think it's more a case of not judging until they've heard the full story, as Twitter is known for not exactly being the best source of *accurate* information until stories have been backed up somewhere else


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Nadia sounds like an arsehole tbh



That makes referring to her as a paki ok does it? 

Allegedly of course


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## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Women gets attacked by hair. WHAT A BITCH.


Getting pissed on your own booze in a pub, then acting like a dick when pulled up on it. I'm not defending the racist language, but she'd have been thrown out of most pubs for behaving like that.


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## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> I don't think there's loads of people on here disbelieving the story.  I think it's more a case of not judging until they've heard the full story



Logic you mean?


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## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

Dan U said:


> That makes referring to her as a paki ok does it?
> 
> Allegedly of course


No. Where did I say that?


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

I know, I can see I'm now being called a sexist by your mates on twitter for using your words "non-consensually" despite the fact you've posted them in the public domain for ANYONE to see.


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## ddraig (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:


> Also, RiverDrew, I have completely NO understanding about why MY twitter specifically has been screenshotted yet other people have simply been quoted. I assume this is because I am female and seen as an easy target for an internet argument or abuse campaign. You were not at The Windmill last night. You have no connection to the event but you seem to be disproportionately obsessed with it.


 drew is just passing on what he has found
i think you have the wrong end of the stick

and yeah, what you say on twitter is, err public, if you didn't know already


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> No. Where did I say that?



It kind of felt like it was being excused but you probably didn't mean that, fair do's. I agree with your next post btw, I'd throw someone out of my pub if they had their own bottle of vodka. 

If I had a pub


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## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

Has anyone called anyone a hipster yet?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

I reckon he loses quite a bit of money from people bringing their own drink in.  You only have to look in the loos and garden at the end of the night to see the bottles/cans hidden away, and the fact remains, it is a reasonably priced pub

Doesn't excuse his behaviour though


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Dan U said:


> Has anyone called anyone a hipster yet?


 
Shut up, you shit stirring hipster


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## Chilavert (Jul 5, 2012)

Dan U said:


> Has anyone called anyone a hipster yet?


You fucking hipster!!!

Sent from my iPad

Edit: Curse you Minnie....


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## panglossian (Jul 5, 2012)

Hiya. Breaking it down: 

- Taking an outside drink into a pub does not compare to _physical violence_. These things are on different scales. Surely this is obvious.
- the screenshots themselves are not what's weird. Taking the screenshots implies that you have an issue with the information given in them, but aren't willing to engage with their author yourselves. Why not? Is it because it makes you feel safer to poke fun at them away from Twitter? If you genuinely believe their content is invalid, why not point this out directly? 
- it doesn't matter whether or not she 'sounds like an arsehole', physical violence is rarely (if ever) justifiable, this wasn't self-defence, and she is physically smaller and more vulnerable than him so it _sure as hell_ wasn't in this case.
- the price of the drinks doesn't matter. Purchasing a drink for a higher price than £0.00 is tacitly supporting the venue and its owners. It's a symbolic condonement, as well as a financial one. I assume you all actually know this but are splitting hairs for whatever reason.

Several of the things said here make me think some of you want to present this as a simple overreaction. But if we as women (hell, if we as humans) don't feel safe within our own music/social scene (and several of us, including those who were present at the venue as well as those who have heard about it from witnesses, have said we do not) I think urging a boycott is a rational means of trying to protect ourselves and our friends.


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Good luck with that


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

panglossian said:


> - the screenshots themselves are not what's weird. Taking the screenshots implies that you have an issue with the information given in them, but aren't willing to engage with their author yourselves. Why not? Is it because it makes you feel safer to poke fun at them away from Twitter? If you genuinely believe their content is invalid, why not point this out directly?


 
Not everyone is on Twitter though


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## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

panglossian said:


> Hiya. Breaking it down:
> 
> - Taking an outside drink into a pub does not compare to _physical violence_. These things are on different scales. Surely this is obvious.
> - the screenshots themselves are not what's weird. Taking the screenshots implies that you have an issue with the information given in them, but aren't willing to engage with their author yourselves. Why not? Is it because it makes you feel safer to poke fun at them away from Twitter? If you genuinely believe their content is invalid, why not point this out directly?
> ...


 
Nail meet head. Great post. The saddest thing about all this is that the indiepop scene in London is one which prides itself on being all inclusive. It is without of sexual or ethnic discrimination or the clique nature of other music movements.

It is a place where women and sometimes the underaged, as I was having been to gigs to see these similar bands since I was 16, can go watch bands and have a good time within a safe and friendly environment and the Windmill was one of the venues where this feeling thrived. The events of one idiot has tarnished this.


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## simsimsim (Jul 5, 2012)

I just can't even....
Yes- it is completely fine to throw someone out of a pub for taking in their own drinks. No one is arguing that.

But it is not fine as a fully grown man, to drag a petite woman by the hair without prior attempt at removing her from the venue. The amount of force he used was disproportionate to the situation.

And it is not fine to use racist terminology- in this case 'paki'. 

It is understandable you are questioning my reliability as you do not personally know me, but I have no motive to falsify information- I like The Windmill as a venue and had no prior communication with The Tuts so no bias towards either party. A lot of people within the indiepop community will be boycotting The Windmill regardless of the comments on this forum. 

If you were not there, you will obviously be unsure what to believe. If you were there, you will have seen what happened. 
End thread.


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## Crispy (Jul 5, 2012)

panglossian said:


> - the screenshots themselves are not what's weird. Taking the screenshots implies that you have an issue with the information given in them, but aren't willing to engage with their author yourselves. Why not? Is it because it makes you feel safer to poke fun at them away from Twitter? If you genuinely believe their content is invalid, why not point this out directly?


 
I think you'll find it's because this forum is full of old fogeys who don't have twitter accounts.


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## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Oh dear


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## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Not everyone is on Twitter though


 
Why did posters not simply quote her like I have been quoted in this thread? Why is Simona's face // name needed whereas my mug in front of the Polish embassy and my name, Matthew, is irrelevant to what I have posted on the internet in a public space?


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## cesare (Jul 5, 2012)

I suspect it's "end post" rather than "end thread".


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:


> I just can't even....
> Yes- it is completely fine to throw someone out of a pub for taking in their own drinks. No one is arguing that.
> 
> But it is not fine as a fully grown man, to drag a petite woman by the hair without prior attempt at removing her from the venue. The amount of force he used was disproportionate to the situation.
> ...


 
but I've not seen anyone on this thread dispute the fact that it was out of order behaviour on the part of the governor?


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## gabi (Jul 5, 2012)

Sounds like seamus was swigging whiskey himself at the bar (his bar) while getting more and more heated up. I'm sure he completely regrets what's happened in the cold light of day and I don't believe hes racist fwiw. Never met nadia but have met seamus many times and I really like him. 

Not entirely sure this social media blitz on a man who probably has only just heard of fax machines is quite fair either. Press charges or fuck off.


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## ddraig (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Why did posters not simply quote her like I have been quoted in this thread? Why is Simona's face // name needed whereas my mug in front of the Polish embassy and my name, Matthew, is irrelevant to what I have posted on the internet in a public space?


 before this gets stupid.

people are trying to understand and get first hand accoutns to help them understand.
drew saw something on twitter and thought it might help to add context here

that is it... nothing else
no dodgy reasons or steering of the story, just passing on info


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Why did posters not simply quote her like I have been quoted in this thread? Why is Simona's face // name needed whereas my mug in front of the Polish embassy and my name, Matthew, is irrelevant to what I have posted on the internet in a public space?


 
Maybe the one who posted Simona's face has a Twitter account?  

I wouldn't know how to post up what he's posted


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## Ms Ordinary (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Both me and Perkie went up to him to complain, Perkie in defence of her friend and myself to say that I was disgusted at seeing a young woman get attacked and that because of what I saw I would not be going to the venue again. I would say that I was potentially shouting and being authoritative but I would personally say non-violent and non-aggressive. My hands, for example, were not placed on Seamus or anywhere near him. I am aware that this could be interpreted differently by different people.
> 
> Perkie reported being man-handled and had her arm hurt. I can report that Seamus grabbed and stretched my shirt, pulled me towards him and attempted to hit me before himself and me were pulled apart. I should note that after Seamus attempted to attack Perkie and myself Nadia, as her last act before she left the scene, began another shouting match between herself in Seamus where Nadia did end up slapping him. Whilst understandable in context this was inexcusable.


 
All sounds very complicated, but I s'pose there's no chance that Seamus was trying to describe "that Perkie" to the police?


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## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

ddraig said:


> before this gets stupid.
> 
> people are trying to understand and get first hand accoutns to help them understand.
> drew saw something on twitter and thought it might help to add context here
> ...


 
Apart from the irrelevant discussion of drinks prices which complete distorted the discussion towards the idea of overly hyperbolic women.



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe the one who posted Simona's face
> has a Twitter account?
> 
> I wouldn't know how to post up what he's posted


 
My twitter account - @theyalllaughed - has been directly copy and pasted from this thread with no screenshot.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Ms Ordinary said:


> All sounds very complicated, but I s'pose there's no chance that Seamus was trying to describe "that Perkie" to the police?


 
It is highly unlikely that he knew her name. That excuse is comical.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Why did posters not simply quote her like I have been quoted in this thread? Why is Simona's face // name needed whereas my mug in front of the Polish embassy and my name, Matthew, is irrelevant to what I have posted on the internet in a public space?


 
You're really not grasping this public/private thing are you ? I really suggest you do before using the internet.


----------



## The Octagon (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Why did posters not simply quote her like I have been quoted in this thread? Why is Simona's face // name needed whereas my mug in front of the Polish embassy and my name, Matthew, is irrelevant to what I have posted on the internet in a public space?


 
He's right btw, and the initial twitter posting by Raverdrew was used to mock her (otherwise why the facepalm?)

Cunt's trick IMO, what's it got to do with the incident?

Some weird attitudes on this thread, people claiming not to be excusing the violence and racist language, but mostly focusing on the victim's drunkeness and not the thug in charge of the pub.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> You're really not grasping this public/private thing are you ? I really suggest you do before using the internet.


 
Irrelevant. My twitter is public. I was quoted. No one felt that my face and name as needed and my opinions and posts belittled.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

If it was racist and physical abuse, then please do raise it with the police again. That will have more effect than some twitter campaign 

But bear in mind that turning up pissed and then carrying on drinking your own booze isn't going to make you popular with the landlord, who might ask you to leave and can. That doesn't excuse racist language, nor physical violence. 

The Tut Tuts facebook account has the following quotes from previous gigs:

"we didn't stay for them, we had to leave cos Nadia was about to beat up everyone in the whole pub." ​
"​Why does trouble keep following the tuts!" ​
"​i wanna carry one [ a knife] i'd be shanking nuff mans​
 
and amusingly:​ 
Nadia laid down some truths about sexism in the live music scene - and promoters better know we're on to them. e.g. putting on a rising band like the tuts who have 559 fans on facebook, beloved by Kate Nash, thousands of views on their video, putting THEM in a support slot for some boyband with just over 100 facebook fans is fucking telling (no offence to said boyband, you may be very good)​ 
I'm very aware that there is sexism within the music industry, but that reads a bit like a teenage temper tantrum. ((boyband))

​


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:
			
		

> May I just interject here and say that I find it really creepy that my twitter has been- as someone put- 'mockingly screenshotted' and the events discussed here yet no one contacted me directly via twitter for any clarification. As has been suggested by my friends on twitter, I find the attitude of this forum thread EXTREMELY sexist and quick to dismiss the events as 'a brawl' simply because The Windmill is in your area.
> 
> No matter the reasons for the events and whether or not you personally regard the landlord's actions as justified or unjustified, it all boils down to the fact I witnessed a fully grown man assault a woman and I no longer feel safe at The Windmill.



Sad to see you coming here and making sexist allegations against this forum. 

You are making allegations and people are not accusing you of lying. Nor have I seen any sexism. We are just keeping an open mind rather than leaping to conclusions. Perhaps you would get more credibility if you did not sling unjustified mud at us.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 5, 2012)

Having had the traditional battering around the head with an umbrella from Pat at the Albert I can confirm landlords don't take kindly to punters bringing their own booze into a pub.I not surprised about ruckus but must say the P word was right out of order.


----------



## gabi (Jul 5, 2012)

He's not a thug


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 5, 2012)

i think accusations of sexism on here are straying a long way from the point. (am a girl despite the username)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> He's right btw, and the initial twitter posting by Raverdrew was used to mock her (otherwise why the facepalm?)
> 
> Cunt's trick IMO, what's it got to do with the incident?
> 
> Some weird attitudes on this thread, people claiming not to be excusing the violence and racist language, but mostly focusing on the victim's drunkeness and not the thug in charge of the pub.


 
I'd say it was a mixed bag, but I can't see a single person who has condoned his behaviour (other than saying he was right to chuck her out), and by that I don't think they meant physically throw her out


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Apart from the irrelevant discussion of drinks prices which complete distorted the discussion towards the idea of overly hyperbolic women.


 
Yes, that's _exactly_ what I did 

The subject of drinks prices was brought up from that blog post. I'd say it's highly relevant when the incident seemed to stem from someone bringing in their own vodka, whilst a friend of theirs declares that they feel "sick" for spending the huge sum of £2.40 at the bar.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Irrelevant. My twitter is public. I was quoted. No one felt that my face and name as needed and my opinions and posts belittled.


 
I didn't quote you, therefore I didn't screenshot your twitter, c'mon this aint rocket science.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Yes, that's _exactly_ what I did
> 
> The subject of drinks prices was brought up from that blog post. I'd say it's highly relevant when the incident seemed to stem from someone bringing in their own vodka, whilst a friend of theirs declares that they feel "sick" for spending the huge sum of £2.40 at the bar.


 
But you misinterpreted it. She is sick, as I am, for giving a venue money following the actions that we witnessed. Both me and Simona have given that bar, on average, around £20 at least per visit to the Windmill on the bar and it is horrible to know that the money hasn't gone to a good cause but to a not only sexist and racist but from his attempt to punch me just all round violent thug.

I was quoted by a different member. I retract my comments. I still find it strange that Simona's personal details matter whereas mine do not when they are being quoted as if her comments and opinions have less credibility.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> But you misinterpreted it. She is sick, as I am, for giving a venue money following the actions that we witnessed. Both me and Simona have given that bar, on average, around £20 at least per visit to the Windmill on the bar and it is horrible to know that the money hasn't gone to a good cause but to a not only sexist and racist but from his attempt to punch me just all round violent thug.


 
That's understandable, but also, if you had seen/heard this on Twitter yourself, without actually being there, knowing that you've had plenty of good trouble-free nights there yourself, what would your opinion of the whole story be?


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 5, 2012)

Having read through everything, I can't see any FIRST HAND account of the P word being used. Unless I've overlooked something, it's all "I heard that it was used, but didn't hear it myself".


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 5, 2012)

The racism is troubling if it's true. And the violence of course.
I thought that era was over.


----------



## simsimsim (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Sad to see you coming here and making sexist allegations against this forum.
> 
> You are making allegations and people are not accusing you of lying. Nor have I seen any sexist. We are just keeping an open mind rather than leaping to conclusions. Perhaps you would get more credibility if you did not sling unjustified mud at us.


 
To be honest, the fact that Nadia is a woman and was assaulted seems to be dismissed as 'crazy woman gets put in her place' followed by agreeing how quite right it is and that Seamus is not a thug- which is not open minded.

Screenshots of my twitter posted on this thread seem to be deliberately motivated at discrediting myself personally when I am simply recounting what I saw so that people specifically in the indiepop community who frequently book the venue and bands who play at the venue are aware. It was not intended for your gossip session or as a contribution to this forum.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> That's understandable, but also, if you had seen/heard this on Twitter yourself, without actually being there, knowing that you've had plenty of good trouble-free nights there yourself, what would your opinion of the whole story be?


 
 BEEN MASSIVELY EDITED!

Well of course I cannot comment. I understand your perspective but so much testimony has now been given and it seems a bit off to simply declare that these claims are "dubious". In my own blog I have tried to be as clear and as objective as possible I have been critical of both sides and I would argue that the interpretation can be seen as having a degree of validity.

Shows have already been cancelled. This is a serious allegation. However, I admit that at this point that is all it is, officially, and you can't be expected to choose sides. I have found this forum is finding itself overly in favour of the venue, perhaps because of the sexism that has been argued here and on twitter and perhaps because it is happening in their backyard at somewhere they truly love. As I did.

I also find it strange that whilst everyone is fine to have-a-go at Nadia and comment on those events when it comes to Seamus randomly attempting to attack me unprovoked apart from me telling him I'm not giving him anymore money it has simply been glazed over. Partially I feel that this reaction is that if you were to respond to it the whole defense of the venue has to go out of the window.

Me and Tim the booker, who is a nice bloke who I have nothing against, has said he will pass my concerns on to Seamus with a full response to follow which I will publish here, twitter and on my blog if it is significant. I sincerely hope that a conclusion can be reached but I am not banking on it.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:
			
		

> Nadia is a woman and was assaulted seems to be dismissed as 'crazy woman gets put in her place'



I am sorry but that has not been the case. Can you see how you saying stuff like this makes you seem malicious, defensive and unreliable? 

No doubt something happened and it sounds sad/disappointing. I hope it gets sorted out but there are channels to go through. Witch hunt is not the best solution.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I have found this forum is finding itself overly in favour of the venue, perhaps because of the sexism that has been argued here and on twitter ...


 
you are seeing something which isn't there.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> BEEN MASSIVELY EDITED!
> 
> Well of course I cannot comment. I understand your perspective but so much testimony has now been given and it seems a bit off to simply declare that these claims are "dubious". In my own blog I have tried to be as clear and as objective as possible I have been critical of both sides and I would argue that the interpretation can be seen as having a degree of validity.


 
I haven't condoned his behaviour, so I'm not sure what perspective of mine you're understanding.  I think his behaviour was bang out of order


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> you are seeing something which isn't there.


 
I said perhaps. I didn't dispense judgement.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I said perhaps. I didn't dispense judgement.


 
I think you are.  These forums are not in the slightest bit sexist


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I haven't condoned his behaviour, so I'm not sure what perspective of mine you're understanding. I think his behaviour was bang out of order


I didn't say that. I said that the issue has been easily dismissed as rumour.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Nail meet head. Great post. The saddest thing about all this is that the indiepop scene in London is one which prides itself on being all inclusive. It is without of sexual or ethnic discrimination or the clique nature of other music movements.
> .


 
indiepop scene not cliquey?  christ, you must be in a different scene to the one i've observed over the years.  and it's really really heavily white and male dominated, too.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

i wasn't there, but a quick analysis:
- smuggling in drinks: bad (think the promoter/bands gets most of the door money) although good for the smuggler if not caught
- throwing out people for smuggling in drinks: okay - if force is justified
- unjustifiable force: assault
- assault: very bad
- racist language: REALLY bad
- feeling sick for contributing £2.40 to landlord you dislike: sad, but I'm sure the feeling will pass.
- pasting people's twitter with face and everything: slightly weird. takes some effort to do.

so it seems many people involved had been an asshole.

a different question: had it been a big man who was in the same situation (a big man with long hair), would this then have been okay? (my feeling is no)


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 5, 2012)

People on this forum kind of have a long association with the Windmill as many of us used to go as a group to events there.

As well as going there as a (female) punter I have played there in bands many, many times over more than a decade. I have always had a warm welcome from the landlord and all the staff, never experienced any problems of this nature or heard of anyone having any (and I know a lot of people on the South London music scene).

This is not to say that the incident as reported didn't happen, but I certainly wouldn't want to rush to judgement.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I didn't say that. I said that the issue has been easily dismissed as rumour.


 
Initially, by some people, until they got the full story from other people that were there, and that information only arrived a while ago.  Before that, it was all just twitter comments


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> The Tut Tuts facebook account has the following quotes from previous gigs:
> 
> "
> we didn't stay for them, we had to leave cos Nadia was about to beat up everyone in the whole pub." ​
> ...


 
hehe  They sound like fun...


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:


> To be honest, the fact that Nadia is a woman and was assaulted seems to be dismissed as 'crazy woman gets put in her place' followed by agreeing how quite right it is and that Seamus is not a thug- which is not open minded.


 
I don't think anyone has make it gender specific, but said that if you bring booze in, and get caught, that might upset the landlord who will think that you're just exploiting his venue whilst putting on a show there. My own experience of Seamus has always been fine, (I've played there >20 times) and I'm shocked, but can't make a decision until both side of the story are explained. That seems fair and equitable doesn't it? 

If his reaction was physical and disproportionate to the situation then pursue it as has been pointed out by a number of people.

If you've got a brain, you'll drink your booze outside of the little wall bit and get on with it. Then play your show to your mates and you can all go home happy.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I think you are. These forums are not in the slightest bit sexist


 
I'm not ruling it out. The posts about Simona and drinks distorted the issue and belittled her opinions when her opinion on the price of drinks has nothing to do with the reports and should have been ignored. The fact that her face and name was used and mine wasn't is also a bit strange. The comment about Nadia being a bitch, or similar, also justified Seamus's actions on the ground that he "put the woman in her place".

I favour the second view personally, that you don't like the idea that this happened in "your backyard" and a place you have a connection with. But I think this thread does have some quite unpleasant elements.

Anyway, this discussion ignores the true issue of what happened. I am willing to answer any questions anyone has about WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED and no longer feel the need to engage in these trivialities. I am sorry that they have gone this far really.

I look forward to what the Windmill has to say and I am sure they will produce a statement. I hope that we can come to an agreement about what did happen that will leave all parties happy.


----------



## simsimsim (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I am sorry but that has not been said. Can you see how you saying stuff like this makes you seem malicious, defensive and unreliable?
> 
> No doubt something happened and it sounds sad/disappointing. I hope it gets sorted out but there are channels to go through. Witch hunt is not the best solution.


 
It's how I interpreted your interpretation which is completely rational. 

I don't really want to go into this further because I am tired of this thread. I have privatised my twitter again too.

Just to emphasise, I am never going to step foot into The Windmill again because of what I _personally_ witnessed. I feel unsafe there. I am aware that this was only the actions of one man and everyone has their off days and the rest of the staff had nothing to do with this but as a still-teenage young woman I do not wish to attend or give money to a venue where I have witnessed violence, especially against women, or racism.

You may have your own opinion, I respect this and I hope that you are able to continue to attend The Windmill in future (should you choose to do so) without any such problems.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I'm not ruling it out. The posts about Simona and drinks distorted the issue and belittled her opinions when her opinion on the price of drinks has nothing to do with the reports and should have been ignored. The fact that her face and name was used and mine wasn't is also a bit strange. The comment about Nadia being a bitch, or similar, also justified Seamus's actions on the ground that he "put the woman in her place".
> 
> I favour the second view personally, that you don't like the idea that this happened in "your backyard" and a place you have a connection with. But I think this thread does have some quite unpleasant elements.
> 
> Anyway, this discussion ignores the true issue of what happened. I am willing to answer any questions anyone has about WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED and no longer feel the need to engage in these trivialities. I am sorry that they have gone this far really.


 
I would like to point out that I don't drink in the pub so have no agenda


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:


> To be honest, the fact that Nadia is a woman and was assaulted seems to be dismissed as 'crazy woman gets put in her place' followed by agreeing how quite right it is and that Seamus is not a thug- which is not open minded.


 
Did I really do this ? Or did I say that I'd reserve judgement until I hear a first hand account from my friend who was there. I wish I'd joined her there now like I was supposed to.

And fwiw I haven't always seen eye to eye with Saemus, so I wouldn't just blindly defend him.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

i have a question for those that know the singer of this band. given your knowledge of her, the fact she's apparantly quite bolshie etc. would she have left the venue of her own accord at any point once asked to leave by the landlord?


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I am willing to answer any questions anyone has about WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED


 
As I said in a previous post, I can't see any FIRST HAND account of racist language being used. Is there anyone who actually heard it, rather than just heard that someone else heard it?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:
			
		

> it's how I interpreted your interpretation which is completely rational.



So how I interpreted your interpretation counts for nothing then. Shame.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> indiepop scene not cliquey? christ, you must be in a different scene to the one i've observed over the years. and it's really really heavily white and male dominated, too.


 
and all middle class kids from the burbs too...


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> i have a question for those that know the singer of this band. given your knowledge of her, the fact she's apparantly quite bolshie etc. would she have left the venue of her own accord at any point once asked to leave by the landlord?


 
Whilst I do not know her personally there were many friends of her and some who I assume may have been family, many of which were responsible people who could only be seen as middle aged. If Seamus had walked away, or Nadia for that matter, and both parties had kept their distance following them being separated by myself and others I am sure she would have been convinced to leave only partially harmed from the initial incident.



RubyToogood said:


> As I said in a previous post, I can't see any FIRST HAND account of racist language being used. Is there anyone who actually heard it, rather than just heard that someone else heard it?


 
The language happened when Seamus was talking to police it was reported by members of the band and their friends. SilentPunk's (JenCMW) tumblr post touched on it and I'm sure she is in a better position than me to discuss this.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RubyToogood said:


> As I said in a previous post, I can't see any FIRST HAND account of racist language being used. Is there anyone who actually heard it, rather than just heard that someone else heard it?


 
The police heard it apparently, and refused to do anything about it, which I find a bit hard to believe.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2012)

So, does anyone know what ACTUALLY happenned?


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> The police heard it apparently, and refused to do anything about it, which I find a bit hard to believe.


The police not taking racial abuse seriously? You jest, surely.

<Note to newcomers - heavy irony alert>


----------



## Chilavert (Jul 5, 2012)

I know this isn't the main issue here, but the comments about the prices of the drinks were clearly facetious and shouldn't, in my opinion, be taken seriously.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

God this is all very depressing - both the alleged incident and this thread.

I'm not going to add to this at length, but what I would say is that if the singer thinks she has been assaulted she should go and make a statement to the police and ask them to investigate.  They may well have said "nothing will come of it" but they said that a couple of years ago when I was assaulted on the street by a random.  I pursued and he was eventually convicted.

I would just say though that allegations of assault are very serious and should be dealt with by police and relevant authorities.  But they are just allegations until any criminal proceedings happen.  

However, there also seems to be a lot of hyperbole here on both sides.  Accusations of sexism of posters here are way off the mark by people who alleged the event.  For the person who's twitter has been screenshot - if you don't want that to happen you need to make it private.  Anyone could do it.  People do it on lots of threads here as lots of people don't have twitter.

However, I think it's also deeply unhelpful people being suspicious of new people coming on and describing what they saw.  Some of us know the Windmill well; and also know Brixton well.  What might not be seen as serious by some here was obviously disturbing and frightening to people who were there. 

And just for the avoidance of doubt for the newbies I'm female and have DJ'd at the Windmill and attended many gigs there over the last 10 years or so.  I know the staff.  I have never seen anything like this happen before.  However, if I did witness something like the alleged incident I'd be pretty fucking disgusted.  I'd also think twice about going back.  But it's not for you or I to judge whether it's assault.  It's for the police and the courts.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

i know the sort of person you are now radradrad, cheers.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

nipsla said:


> God this is all very depressing - both the alleged incident and this thread.
> 
> I'm not going to add to this at length, but what I would say is that if the singer thinks she has been assaulted she should go and make a statement to the police and ask them to investigate. They may well have said "nothing will come of it" but they said that a couple of years ago when I was assaulted on the street by a random. I pursued and he was eventually convicted.
> 
> ...


 
ETA - I clearly have added to this at length


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> The language happened when Seamus was talking to police it was reported by members of the band and their friends. SilentPunk's (JenCMW) tumblr post touched on it and I'm sure she is in a better position than me to discuss this.


 
reported by witnesses without an axe to grind or anything?


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> i know the sort of person you are now radradrad, cheers.


Pardon?


----------



## ericjarvis (Jul 5, 2012)

My take on this, as a muso.

Musos playing a gig often behave like complete arseholes, myself included. It goes with the territory. You can end up in some really weird mind states when performing, not to mention the effect of nerves. Anyone involved in running a gig should be aware of this, and that includes the landlord of a pub venue. Sometimes musicians will do something out of order, and without condoning it, the landlord and the promoter et al have to be able to handle it with a minimum of fuss. That might still mean expelling a musician by force, but certainly not the sort of fracas that appears to have taken place at the Windmill.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> reported by witnesses without an axe to grind or anything?


 
Well if it was the word of a man who attempted to punch you and nearly ripped, and partially damaged, the t-shirt you were wearing unprovoked against those of people who also faced his wrath who would you lean towards?


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

Landlords owning a pub often behave like complete arseholes, myself included. It goes with the territory. You can end up in some really weird mind states when owning a pub, not to mention the effect of drinks. Anyone involved in going to a pub should be aware of this, and that includes the musos in a band. Sometimes publicans will do something out of order, and without condoning it, the punters and the performers et al have to be able to handle it with a minimum of fuss. That might still mean being expelled by the landlords by force, but certainly not the sort of fracas that appears to have taken place at the Windmill.​


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

I don't really own a pub.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanda said:


> So, does anyone know what ACTUALLY happenned?


 
Have you read all this thread Kanda?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Right, I just heard back from my friend.

Says that Saemus caught Nadia drinking her own alcohol in the bar, asked her to leave, at which point she started trying to throw punches at him. He then used reasonable force to remove her, but she was being leary, very aggressive, and drunk.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

So am I to understand that this is being painted as a racist and sexist incident because someone may or may not have heard the landlord use the word Paki after the incident was over and the Police had turned up, and the alleged victim was a girl?

Sounds like Seamus acted disproportionately to a punter/performer being juvenile and selfish. Seamus should very quickly learn better how to diffuse situations and the punter/performer should grow up a bit. If Seamus' action might have amounted to assault, get the police involved. (ETA : or the girl's attempt to hit Seamus, for that matter).

Incidentally, I just had a listen to The Tuts on myspace and rather liked it.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Have you read all this thread Kanda?


 
Of course not.


----------



## wurlycurly (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> Landlords owning a pub often behave like complete arseholes, myself included. It goes with the territory. You can end up in some really weird mind states when owning a pub, not to mention the effect of drinks. Anyone involved in going to a pub should be aware of this, and that includes the musos in a band. Sometimes publicans will do something out of order, and without condoning it, the punters and the performers et al have to be able to handle it with a minimum of fuss. That might still mean being expelled by the landlords by force, but certainly not the sort of fracas that appears to have taken place at the Windmill.​


 
All the talk of smuggled-in booze, pissed people, arguments etc is merely acting as a smokescreen for two allegations - did Seamus grab the singer by the hair, and was she racially abused? The promoter says he won't be putting on Windmill gigs again, and that seems pretty significant to me. My default position will be to avoid the Windmill until this is sorted out. Grim stuff.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

fair enough wurlycurly.

why would seamus be dumb enough to use racially aggravating language in the presence of the police.  that would be a thing i doubt a man with his experience would do, even if he thought it?  i've never seen him say anything like that in the face of aggravation and an ability to get away with it.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

I've heard direct from a witness that this Nadia tried to throw a huge punch at Saemus and totally missed, which only made her more wound up and aggressive. 

Once you throw a punch at a landlord I don't think you have ANY grounds to be moaning about how rough they were in trying to remove you.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Jul 5, 2012)

wurlycurly said:


> The promoter says he won't be putting on Windmill gigs again, and that seems pretty significant to me. My default position will be to avoid the Windmill until this is sorted out. Grim stuff.


 
The promoter said he wouldn't use the Windmill again because 'he couldn't get a crowd in'. That's an important distinction.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I've heard direct from a witness that this Nadia tried to throw a huge punch at Saemus and totally missed, which only made her more wound up and aggressive.
> 
> Once you throw a punch at a landlord I don't think you have ANY grounds to be moaning about how rough they were in trying to remove you.


 
What did your friend say about the racist language or didn't they hear it?


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

again, wasn't there - but is "using racist language" and "racial abuse" being mixed up here? both very bad, by the way, in case this is not clear. (and i'm not white, if that matters)

my post you quoted was jokes btw (some kind of parody of an earlier post, or something)


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

simsimsim said:


> Screenshots of my twitter posted on this thread seem to be deliberately motivated at discrediting myself personally when I am simply recounting what I saw so that people specifically in the indiepop community who frequently book the venue and bands who play at the venue are aware. It was not intended for your gossip session or as a contribution to this forum.


I think you're reading far, far, far too much into this screenshot thing. Some people like to quote Twitter comments, some like to use a screenshot. I've done both depending on what I'm using to post on these boards (desktop/phone) and if I can be arsed to grab a screen shot or not.

As for the suggestion that there's some sort of sexism running rampant around here, I suggest you take a look around at some of the threads on the topic.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I think you're reading far, far. far too much into this screenshot thing. Some people like to quote Twitter comments, some like to screenshot. I've done both depending on what I'm using to post on these boards (desktop/phone) and if I can be arsed to grab a screen shot or not.


 Both are clearly sexist.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What did your friend say about the racist language or didn't they hear it?


 
Saw the whole thing, and didn't hear any racist language used by Saemus (and she's the type of person that would be totally disgusted if he had) did say that Saemus was quite rough in throwing her out, but only because she was trying to lash out at him as he was doing so. The police came down and defused it all, but it was mostly handbags in her opinion.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I've heard direct from a witness that this Nadia tried to throw a huge punch at Saemus and totally missed, which only made her more wound up and aggressive.
> 
> Once you throw a punch at a landlord I don't think you have ANY grounds to be moaning about how rough they were in trying to remove you.


 
I do not see how your secondary data is far more credible than plenty of other people's primary accounts of what happened. Your witness seems to glaze over how Nadia's hair was pulled and how she was chased around the venue. Other accounts have stated how Nadia's behaviour was out of control, if you bothered to read them, but yours appears completely one-sided.


----------



## wurlycurly (Jul 5, 2012)

King Biscuit Time said:


> The promoter said he wouldn't use the Windmill again because 'he couldn't get a crowd in'. That's an important distinction.


 Sorry; missed that.  You're absoulety right.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I do not see how your secondary data is far more credible than plenty of other people's primary accounts of what happened. Your witness seems to glaze over how Nadia's hair was pulled and how she was chased around the venue. Other accounts have stated how Nadia's behaviour was out of control, if you bothered to read them, but yours appears completely one-sided.


He is relaying a first hand account from someone he trusts. Don't take it personally.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

I still find it a bit odd that those who tweeted about it last night didn't mention anything about the racism until this morning.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I still find it a bit odd that those who tweeted about it last night didn't mention anything about the racism until this morning.


 
FROM FACEBOOK -
*Simona Grace Irish*

14 hours ago​from now on i am never stepping foot in the Brixton Windmill again. Seriously BOYCOTT IT. Old man landlord assaulted lead singer of The Tuts, pulled her hair and about 5 people had to get him off her. He then used RACIST TERMINOLOGY. Police had to be called. Been to some great gigs there in the past but now I can't let my money go to a racist who assaults women.​


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I do not see how your secondary data is far more credible than plenty of other people's primary accounts of what happened. Your witness seems to glaze over how Nadia's hair was pulled and how she was chased around the venue. Other accounts have stated how Nadia's behaviour was out of control, if you bothered to read them, but yours appears completely one-sided.


 
I didn't say it was any more credible, but this was from someone who was a neutral observer that I trust 100%, and who happened to be in the Windmill last night.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:
			
		

> I do not see how your secondary data is far more credible than plenty of other people's primary accounts of what happened. Your witness seems to glaze over how Nadia's hair was pulled and how she was chased around the venue. Other accounts have stated how Nadia's behaviour was out of control, if you bothered to read them, but yours appears completely one-sided.



So she did not attempt an assault in anyway? Not that this would excuse what you claim happened but in terms of being 'one-sided' perhaps the full story (if she did attempt assault of course) may helped people understand.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> FROM FACEBOOK -
> *Simona Grace Irish*​14 hours ago​from now on i am never stepping foot in the Brixton Windmill again. Seriously BOYCOTT IT. Old man landlord assaulted lead singer of The Tuts, pulled her hair and about 5 people had to get him off her. He then used RACIST TERMINOLOGY. Police had to be called. Been to some great gigs there in the past but now I can't let my money go to a racist who assaults women.​


 
Fair enough, I was only going by twitter.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> He is relaying a first hand account from someone he trusts. Don't take it personally.


 
I tried not too. My reply was a bit harsh. It is just the poster appears to be proud of his new found claims of a monopoly of truth over the situation when his information is no less valid than ours.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> FROM FACEBOOK -
> *Simona Grace Irish*​​14 hours ago​from now on i am never stepping foot in the Brixton Windmill again. Seriously BOYCOTT IT. Old man landlord assaulted lead singer of The Tuts, pulled her hair and about 5 people had to get him off her. He then used RACIST TERMINOLOGY. Police had to be called. Been to some great gigs there in the past but now I can't let my money go to a racist who assaults women.​


 
not a credible quote without a screenshot with photo


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

I can't see any reason to favour one person's account over another, such is the nature of eye witness accounts.

Clearly something happened, and by many accounts it was rather unsavoury, but it seems unreasonable to criticise people posting up first hand reports just because they don't chime with their own experiences.

I don't think anyone is lying, just that people will see the same thing through different eyes from different perspectives.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I tried not too. My reply was a bit harsh. It is just the poster appears to be proud of his new found claims of a monopoly of truth over the situation when his information is no less valid than ours.


 
outstanding


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 5, 2012)

...I'm bemused by the idea that it's creepy and somehow sexist and wrong to be quoting anyone about this. I'll admit I don't get this twitter thing, but despite the fact I'm old and grey I do know that if you don't want your photo, name, tweets etc all over the ether don't put them there, especially if you're actively trying to publicise something on twitter ie racist assault allegations/boycott. People only know about this because people connected with whatever happened tweeted it all over the twittersphere.


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I tried not too. My reply was a bit harsh. It is just the poster appears to be proud of his new found claims of a monopoly of truth over the situation when his information is no less valid than ours.



He hasn't claimed a " monopoly of truth".


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> So she did not attempt an assault in anyway? Not that this would excuse what you claim happened but in terms of being 'one-sided' perhaps the full story (if she did attempt assault of course) may helped people understand.


 
Well if you read my interpretation of the events - animatedboyoftheshelf.tumblr.com - you will see that yes she did but it was only after she was attacked and provoked by Seamus.

Seamus also attacked other people, including myself, Nadia had nothing to do with. This is what I find puzzling whilst Nadia can be used as the scapegoat for some of the events last night, if you really want her to be, that only covers 2/3 of the event that actually happened.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2012)

So that was posted at midnight then people tweet about it this morning, when they see it?


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

cesare said:


> He hasn't claimed a " monopoly of truth".


 
more like trivial pursuit


----------



## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

well that lass has protected her account now.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanda said:


> So that was posted at midnight then people tweet about it this morning, when they see it?


 
there were quite a few tweets in the early hours


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

wurlycurly said:


> The promoter says he won't be putting on Windmill gigs again, and that seems pretty significant to me.


 
The venue has, over night, become a no go area for punters who are likely to go my shows - mainly because of the mini storm over on twitter - some of which was commented on by people that were not at the show. I didn't see what happened, so I can't know who is telling the truth about what happened. I did not hear the 'P' word at all but I was not present when the Police arrived.

I know RadRadRad and I know he would not lie, but there are always two sides to something like this, with the truth probably somewhere between what either party is saying.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> The venue has, over night, become a no go area for punters who are likely to go my shows - mainly because of the mini storm over on twitter - some of which was commented on by people that were not at the show.


That is a shame. Perhaps you could invite them to read this thread and let them make up their own minds from some of the subsequent debate here?


----------



## Chilavert (Jul 5, 2012)

Dan U said:


> well that lass has protected her account now.


Lass sounds rather condescending and, dare I say it, sexist.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

I noted that some people reading this thread were coming from Drowned In Sound so took and look.
Blimey, they've been spammed to fuck.


----------



## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> Lass sounds rather condescending and, dare I say it, sexist.


 
that wasn't my intention and neither was it my intention to use anyone's words in a non consensual fashion, particularly a woman and thereby carrying a greater cultural significance due to her gender

or something

anyway its an actual shame this young person of the female persuasion has felt the need to make her twitter account private

thanks

a bloke


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 5, 2012)

Anyway, whatever happened I should probably leave this thread now because I stopped going to the Windmill years ago because the Ladies was totally minging and you had to access them via an unlit bit that was full of brooms, mops and buckets. That's probably not the case any more all these years later, and probably not affected in the least by my one-woman boycott of pubs with grim lavs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I noted that some people reading this thread were coming from Drowned In Sound so took and look.
> Blimey, they've been spammed to fuck.


I'm disappointed to see lindsay lohan spamming them


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## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

Lindsey Lohan!! How one falls from grace.
xpost


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Chilavert said:


> Lass sounds rather condescending and, dare I say it, sexist.


 
are you joking?


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I noted that some people reading this thread were coming from Drowned In Sound so took and look.
> Blimey, they've been spammed to fuck.


Oh, that's their festivals board, they never use that anymore. (Some impressive spam though). (I think I was one of the visitors from DiS - STOP SPYING ON ME!!!! )


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

or is that a step up from using drugs to selling drugs?


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2012)

In the blog, http://animatedboyoftheshelf.tumblr.com/ your friend is called Perkie??

*tries irish accent and 'fuck off Perkie'* and wonders how it may sound...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Anyway, whatever happened I should probably leave this thread now because I stopped going to the Windmill years ago because the Ladies was totally minging and you had to access them via an unlit bit that was full of brooms, mops and buckets. That's probably not the case any more all these years later, and probably not affected in the least by my one-woman boycott of pubs with grim lavs.


 
Yeah, but they were better than The Albert's


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## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

or maybe he was asking her to "pack it in" ?

edit: I know he's said that to me in the past


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

This is like a copy of Pravda from the 50s.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

I remember years back there was a mass boycott of the auld albion in stokey cos the landlord apparently beat up a punk outside: the albion now gone. I wonder if the reaction against the windmill management over last night's little incident will lead to the same result.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanda said:


> In the blog, http://animatedboyoftheshelf.tumblr.com/ your friend is called Perkie??
> 
> *tries irish accent and 'fuck off Perkie'* and wonders how it may sound...


 
Ask Colm to say it 

You have to remember as well that Seamus is Donegal and therefore to some people (including Irish) has a totally unintelligible accent anyway, but I think I would know the difference between Perkie and Paki if he said it


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Yeah, but they were better than The Albert's


I never got hit in the face by a broom in the dark in the Albert.


edited to add, it was not wielded by anyone, it was because I couldn't see a thing trying to find the way into the loo.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanda said:


> In the blog,
> 
> *tries irish accent and 'fuck off Perkie'* and wonders how it may sound...


 
I don't know Perkie to any great extent. I saw her show at the Compass Theatre and then I met her after the incident yesterday. I'm not sure how Seamus was supposed to know her name.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:
			
		

> This is like a copy of Pravda from the 50s.



I have not read them. Interesting read back then?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I remember years back there was a mass boycott of the auld albion in stokey cos the landlord apparently beat up a punk outside: the albion now gone. I wonder if the reaction against the windmill management over last night's little incident will lead to the same result.


 
and poor barstaff will lose their jobs


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## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> This is like a copy of Pravda from the 50s.


No it isn't. No mention of tractors or congresses on this thread. And no one's being called a lickspittle or a running dog of western imperialism.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> I remember years back there was a mass boycott of the auld albion in stokey cos the landlord apparently beat up a punk outside: the albion now gone. I wonder if the reaction against the windmill management over last night's little incident will lead to the same result.



Do you see the two pubs and music scenes as compatible? Just asking like, I don't know myself.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I never got hit in the face by a broom in the dark in the Albert.


 


You were just incredibly unlucky then, although knowing the broom cupboard was there probably prevented me getting whacked with one

Maybe the Albert never owned a mop so had no need of a mop cupboard


----------



## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> No it isn't. No mention of tractors or congresses on this thread. And no one's being called a lickspittle or a running dog of western imperialism.


 
sockpuppet ^^^


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Seamus also attacked other people, including myself, Nadia had nothing to do with.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> No it isn't. No mention of tractors or congresses on this thread. And no one's being called a lickspittle or a running dog of western imperialism.


 
This thread has a severe lack of tractors.


----------



## Yelkcub (Jul 5, 2012)

Has anyone tried a Suarez? "Seamus comes from a town in the Ireland where that word is used affectionately, especially in the middle of a row."


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> This is like a copy of Pravda from the 50s.


 
aw, thanks.  i thought you hated us.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Do you see the two pubs and music scenes as compatible? Just asking like, I don't know myself.


the pubs aren't much the same but the allegations of landlord violence and threatened boycotts are.


----------



## Yelkcub (Jul 5, 2012)

Few extra members though Ed!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> This thread has a severe lack of tractors.


 
Here's one.  It has a picture of a windmill in the background though

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51282757@N05/5832682290/


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

how do you define  the appropriate force to use to get someone out of a pub if the don't  want to go?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Dan U said:


> sockpuppet ^^^


^^ twat


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> This is like a copy of Pravda from the 50s.


 
I know - seriously - this discrimination against the Irish is making me mad.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You have to remember as well that Seamus is Donegal and therefore to some people (including Irish) has a totally unintelligible accent anyway, but I think I would know the difference between Perkie and Paki if he said it


Indeed.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> I know - seriously - this discrimination against the Irish is making me mad.


 
Go eat a potato.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> the pubs aren't much the same but the allegations of landlord violence and threatened boycotts are.



Was just curious. Was unsure how reliant they were on the indie/punk trade to get trade.


----------



## Dan U (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> ^^ twat


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> how do you define the appropriate force to use to get someone out of a pub if the don't want to go?


 
apparently seamus or nadia should have walked away.  clearly the thinking lies that seeing as she wouldn't back down and leave, he should have kept the peace by allowing everyone in the pub to know that you can do what you like in the windmill and nothing will happen.  how long do you think that would last in brixton?  he'd never sell a drink again.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

Don't ever ask if you can 'bum a fag' off someone in a US bar. That is all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> how do you define  the appropriate force to use to get someone out of a pub if the don't  want to go?


Depends on the context, in't it. Some people might need a bit more than others, but there's more than one way to flay a cat and there's more than one way to get someone out a pub, not all of which need violence / threat of violence


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Don't ever ask if you can 'bum a fag' off someone on a US bar. That is all.


 
and don't giggle when they tell you to "sit your fanny down"


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Depends on the context, in't it. Some people might need a bit more than others, but there's more than one way to flay a cat and there's more than one way to get someone out a pub, not all of which need violence / threat of violence


 
i can't imaging a nice neat way of going about it.   especially if  one of the people is  drunk/acting up.    there is of course a level  where you have gone to far  but  if  words have failed  it's going to be fucking difficult  to do.  i've  been left with bruises  just  form mates pushing me about in my room for laughs.  i'd imagine  just trying to physically escort someone out must be a fucking minefield   for  any  publican


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and don't giggle when they tell you to "sit your fanny down"


 
ITIHTM


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Depends on the context, in't it. Some people might need a bit more than others, but there's more than one way to flay a cat and there's more than one way to get someone out a pub, not all of which need violence / threat of violence



I have a mental image of a hansel and gretel-style trail of vodka bottles labelled "free" leading towards the nearest exit.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> ITIHTM


 
What's that in English?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What's that in English?


I Think I Have That Manga


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

cesare said:


> I have a mental image of a hansel and gretel-style trail of vodka bottles labelled "free" leading towards the nearest exit.


 
genius

although  they may have to be  those tiny airplane bottles


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I Think I Have That Manga


 
ah


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What's that in English?


 
WYBMADITTY


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

This is like something out of the revamped version of the Archers. 

From the http://animatedboyoftheshelf.tumblr.com/ account of events, it seems Seamus confronted the singer after she'd spent time on the stage drinking and passing around her smuggled vodka to the audience. An argument then ensued and she was kicked out.

It flared up again outside and the situation wasn't handled that well, but the row continues & the singer slapped Seamus. Police called, accusations of assault and racist comments and a whole heap of social media action raising the online profile of a band i've never heard of and one of who seems to be a bit fitey gets raised.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

one of whom


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

actually i'm not sure


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2012)

Iffy


----------



## Crispy (Jul 5, 2012)

it's whom


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2012)

Or maybe fighty


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i can't imaging a nice neat way of going about it. especially if one of the people is drunk/acting up. there is of course a level where you have gone to far but if words have failed it's going to be fucking difficult to do. i've been left with bruises just form mates pushing me about in my room for laughs. i'd imagine just trying to physically escort someone out must be a fucking minefield for any publican


 
He normally just uses the wrestlers to throw people out tbf...


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

the entirety of that final sentence needs a bit of work I think.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:
			
		

> the entirety of that final sentence needs a bit of work I think.



It is a bit long


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> Of course, they could be Asian looking paddies



Cork Asians.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

but then I don't know whether snowy_again is m/f so I will not comment further - don't want to be sexist.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> He normally just uses the wrestlers to throw people out tbf...


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

seems weird that a longstanding pub landlord who had never done it before would choose his first racist insult to be in FRONT OF THE POLICE after it had all died down rather than at any other point in the scuffle. for that reason, and that i haven't seen any first hand report of it, i don't believe that bit to be true at the moment. and if that bit didn't happen then it's just a little scuffle at closing time and noone got hurt so doesn't seem like a big deal to me.


----------



## Winot (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i can't imaging a nice neat way of going about it. especially if one of the people is drunk/acting up. there is of course a level where you have gone to far but if words have failed it's going to be fucking difficult to do. i've been left with bruises just form mates pushing me about in my room for laughs. i'd imagine just trying to physically escort someone out must be a fucking minefield for any publican


 
First stage might have been to tell the booker person to get her out.  He seems like a sensible chap.


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

tell the booker to throw someone out of your pub?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Cork Asians.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

One of The Tuts has given her side of the story

http://thetuts.tumblr.com/post/26555827192/last-night-at-the-windmill-brixton


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> One of The Tuts has given her side of the story
> 
> http://thetuts.tumblr.com/post/26555827192/last-night-at-the-windmill-brixton



Sounds nasty. However it does not mention her trying to assault him (before or after he went for her) as alleged by two separate people on here. So that is three separate versions of the start of the incident. 

Sad to read this:

Nadia is probably not going to press charges because she doesn’t want the long term hassle


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 5, 2012)

Sad stuff, whether it did or didn't happen exactly as reported: I'd hate to see a terminal decline for a venue that has been great for a lot of people, bands, djs (and prod). 

I wasn't there, I thInk racist terminology is incredibly shit, and I think rows should not lead to this kind of reported violence (slaps, hair pulling etc).  If I've been taught restraint techniques as a teacher, I'd've thought they'd be high on the essentials list for a Brixton publican.  

What does interest me, though, is that this has become an issue of gender politics.  Yes, twatting someone (or hair pulling) is very much the wrong thing to do, but I don't buy that - if someone gets into a situation where someone is going to twat them, that it's automatically further beyond the pale if it's a woman.  Being hit in a fight in with a landlord is not domestic violence - DV needs special treatment because of the contexts of emotional abuse, isolation etc.  

Why is hitting a woman worse than hitting a smaller bloke? (Should pub fighters be taken for a weigh-in and full medical to check the opponents were evenly matched?) Why would I imagine I have the right to go round making a shithead of myself without fear of the physical repercussions I might predict would befall a bloke?


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

The FB comments about the threat of violence at her previous gigs would damage her case, and it's possible she knows that.

Besides, most people know that if you're aggressively gobby in pubs, you sometimes get an unpleasant, perhaps disproportionate outcome. One to chalk up to experience and move on.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> most people know that if you're aggressively gobby in pubs, you sometimes get an unpleasant, perhaps disproportionate outcome.


 
well not usually from the proprietor


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> well not usually from the proprietor


 
Well in the absence of doormen...


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:
			
		

> well not usually from the proprietor



Depends on the pub.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

in other words if you're a person who expect not to be assaulted by the staff/owner of a pub, it's probably quite reasonable that you would now want to boycott such an establishment.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

on the other hand, if you don't smuggle drinks into pubs and/or aren't an asshole you'll probably be okay in this one!


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> in other words if you're a person who expect not to be assaulted by the staff/owner of a pub, it's probably quite reasonable that you would now want to boycott such an establishment.


if you act the fool then occasionally you get comeback. if you want to act the fool but never get any comeback then you will have to boycott EVERYWHERE that there are people.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Can I just add that screen grabbing a twitter comment means there can't be accusations of things being taken out of context? 

Don't know why people think it's 'weird'. If you feel uncomfortable about it then why have your face on your twitter profile?


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:


> if you act the fool then occasionally you get comeback. if you want to act the fool but never get any comeback then you will have to boycott EVERYWHERE that there are people.


 
that's why we have internet forums!


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

I think the moral of this story is that if you want to smuggle vodka into a venue, don't start brazenly drinking it on stage. Also, don't tell the landlord to "Fuck off" and start throwing punches at him when he pulls you up for it.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

http://silentpunk.tumblr.com/post/26551193275/i-know-it-should-be-the-least-of-my-concerns

This one implies he ripped her hair out AND punched her which is a new twist. No mention of her swinging for him either so guess a couple of people who saw that were lying?


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 5, 2012)

I go to a fair few pubs where I can imagine violence being meted out to someone being obnoxious.  I wouldn't boycott them, because Im not an obnoxious drunk myself.  No really. 

The racist comment is more of a worry to me.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> in other words if you're a person who expect not to be assaulted by the staff/owner of a pub, it's probably quite reasonable that you would now want to boycott such an establishment.



Thing is, there's no history of this kind of thing at the Windmill. Whereas there are comments about trouble surrounding Nadia's gigs.

I know which of the two I'd avoid, to steer clear of brawls.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

just a kind of bigoted man.

xpost


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> Thing is, there's no history of this kind of thing at the Windmill. Whereas there are comments about trouble surrounding Nadia's gigs.
> 
> I know which of the two I'd avoid, to steer clear of brawls.


 
How do you know you just haven't heard of this kind of thing happening?  How regular are you?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> I go to a fair few pubs where I can imagine violence being meted out to someone being obnoxious. I wouldn't boycott them, because Im not an obnoxious drunk myself. No really.
> 
> The racist comment is more of a worry to me.


 
A racist comment, that miraculously nobody but the police heard.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 5, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> Sad stuff, whether it did or didn't happen exactly as reported: I'd hate to see a terminal decline for a venue that has been great for a lot of people, bands, djs (and prod).
> 
> I wasn't there, I thInk racist terminology is incredibly shit, and I think rows should not lead to this kind of reported violence (slaps, hair pulling etc). If I've been taught restraint techniques as a teacher, I'd've thought they'd be high on the essentials list for a Brixton publican.
> 
> ...


 
Agreed. Assault is assault whatever the gender of the victim and whatever the gender of the attacker. Drunken arsehole behaviour is drunken arsehole behaviour regardless of gender. Forceful eviction from a pub of an out of order punter is forceful eviction whatever the gender of the punter. Whether this event was a forceful eviction or assault I don't know.

That said, at best, it doesn't seem like the landlord handled it at all well in any of the accounts presented. He's supposed to be the one in control.


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> I go to a fair few pubs where I can imagine violence being meted out to someone being obnoxious. I wouldn't boycott them, because Im not an obnoxious drunk myself. No really.
> 
> The racist comment is more of a worry to me.


it would be to me too, but i don't currently believe that happened.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus. Both Allo' Darlin, now playing the KCLU in September and sell out most of their shows, have boycotted the venue due to an incident with him. There are also reports that MJ Hibbett, also known to indiepop fans, has a similar boycott towards to venue for reasons which I cannot claim to know.

Furthermore, TO REPEAT MYSELF ONCE AGAIN Nadia's history, again if you want to claim she had it coming (which I wouldn't), doesn't really matter when you consider Seamus lashed out at other people who have no association with herself or her band or violence.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Can I just add that screen grabbing a twitter comment means there can't be accusations of things being taken out of context?
> 
> Don't know why people think it's 'weird'. If you feel uncomfortable about it then why have your face on your twitter profile?


 

Well there can because one tweet can be part of a much larger conversation.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:
			
		

> I think the moral of this story is that if you want to smuggle vodka into a venue, don't start brazenly drinking it on stage. Also, don't tell the landlord to "Fuck off" and start throwing punches at him when he pulls you up for it.



What do you know about rowing with landlords and being thrown out of pubs?


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> How do you know you just haven't heard of this kind of thing happening?  How regular are you?



Fair comment, I should have added "that I'm aware of".

(On average I go once a month, however I would expect we'd already know if Seamus was dishing out thumpings. Happy to be corrected on that.)


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> What do you know about rowing with landlords and being thrown out of pubs?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:
			
		

> Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus. Both Allo' Darlin, now playing the KCLU in September and sell out most of their shows, have boycotted the venue due to an incident with him. There are also reports that MJ Hibbett, also known to indiepop fans, has a similar boycott towards to venue for reasons which I cannot claim to know.
> 
> Furthermore, TO REPEAT MYSELF ONCE AGAIN Nadia's history, again if you want to claim she had it coming (which I wouldn't), doesn't really matter when you consider Seamus lashed out at other people who have no association with herself or her band or violence.



What did the police say before? Not doubting, just asking.


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 5, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Agreed.   Assault is assault whatever the gender of the victim and whatever the gender of the attacker.  Drunken arsehole behaviour is drunken arsehole behaviour regardless of gender. Forceful eviction from a pub of an out of order punter is forceful eviction whatever the gender of the punter.  Whether it was a forceful eviction or assault I don't know.
> 
> That said, at best, it doesn't seem like the landlord handled it at all well in any of the accounts here. He's supposed to be the one in control.



Oh totally.   Nadia did not deserve to be treated with disproportionate force, because that's not how landlords should behave.  Just saying that she, or I, or any other woman has no MORE right to expect appropriate treatment than the next person, even if the next person is a bloke.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus. Both *Allo' Darlin,* now playing the KCLU in September and sell out most of their shows, *have boycotted the venue due to an* incident with him. There are also reports that MJ Hibbett, also known to indiepop fans, has a similar boycott towards to venue for reasons which I cannot claim to know.
> 
> Furthermore, TO REPEAT MYSELF ONCE AGAIN Nadia's history, again if you want to claim she had it coming (which I wouldn't), doesn't really matter when you consider Seamus lashed out at other people who have no association with herself or her band or violence.


 
Just to say in relation to my bold, I do know there was an incident that meant that they told all their fans to go elsewhere (as we ended up with a very busy Offline). I have no idea what the incident was though.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> What did the police say before? Not doubting, just asking.


 
They weren't called to the previous incident from what I know, I'm just going from what others have said. it was an angry spat and attempted intimidation.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> however I would expect we'd already know if Seamus was dishing out thumpings. Happy to be corrected on that.)


 
I know that the roof dog has dished out a thumping once on a band


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

quimcunx said:
			
		

> Well there can because one tweet can be part of a much larger conversation.



I meant edited rather than context.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:
			
		

> They weren't called to the previous incident from what I know, I'm just going from what others have said. it was an angry spat and attempted intimidation.



I see


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I'm just going from what others have said


 
Ah, hearsay. Can always rely on it.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> I know that the roof dog has dished out a thumping once on a band


Roof dog once dribbled straight off the roof and into my pint.


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus. Both Allo' Darlin, now playing the KCLU in September and sell out most of their shows, have boycotted the venue due to an incident with him. There are also reports that MJ Hibbett, also known to indiepop fans, has a similar boycott towards to venue for reasons which I cannot claim to know.
> 
> Furthermore, TO REPEAT MYSELF ONCE AGAIN Nadia's history, again if you want to claim she had it coming (which I wouldn't), doesn't really matter when you consider Seamus lashed out at other people who have no association with herself or her band or violence.


could i find out, is there any person who heard the racist bit first hand?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Roof dog once dribbled straight off the roof and into my pint.


 
Roof Dog does that with everyone, so don't think you're special.

He accidentally pissed on me one day


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Ah, hearsay. Can always rely on it.


 
The band have tweet today about how they refuse to play the venue because of staff behaviour. 

CBA to provide context but sure you can work it out -
*Allo Darlin'* ‏@*allodarlinuk*
 It's horrible. I can't say I'm surprised. That man is vile.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:


> could i find out, is there any person who heard the racist bit first hand?


 
apparently only the band, their friends, and the police heard.

no reliable witnesses at all.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> The band have tweet today about how they refuse to play the venue because of staff behaviour.
> .


 
I wasn't defending anyone, just pointing something out.


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> apparently only the band, their friends, and the police heard.
> 
> no reliable witnesses at all.


i know the band has reposted it i was was just curious who had actually heard it first hand as it is not clear at all.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Kanda said:


> I wasn't defending anyone, just pointing something out.


I know. Just making clear it wasn't hearsay that's all.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> FROM FACEBOOK -
> *Simona Grace Irish*​​14 hours ago​from now on i am never stepping foot in the Brixton Windmill again. Seriously BOYCOTT IT. Old man landlord assaulted lead singer of The Tuts, pulled her hair and about 5 people had to get him off her. He then used RACIST TERMINOLOGY. Police had to be called. Been to some great gigs there in the past but now I can't let my money go to a racist who assaults women.​


Once again, the details of what happened here are sketchy but unpleasant none-the-less (see previous posts). But I am thoroughly uncomfortable with attempts to turn this into a race and gender motivated incident.

At risk of sounding a little pedantic, is Simona (SimSimSimSimSim on U75) ageist because she describes Seamus as "Old man landlord" or is she a non-ageist who loves all of our grans but in the heat of the moment is thoughtlessly using the irrelevant word "old" in order to insult someone (who really isn't an old man). I'm not particularly riled by the "old man" gibe itself but by the poster's self righteous attempts to turn this incident into a race and gender motivated attack (on the grounds that after the event the landlord may or may not have said 'Fuck off Paki' and the other party was female) whilst in the same breath being similarly carelessly discriminatory against another group of people. Just because ageism isn't as high profile discriminating as other 'isms' does not mean it is not often as just as hurtful and damaging.

I'm sure it was inadvertent but "being in the heat of the moment" does not make discriminatory comments ok. A little self awareness of one's own's imperfections might help with understanding and relating to the behaviour others and clam things down.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Roof Dog does that with everyone, so don't think you're special.


 
Gutted.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

i think there is always  going to be a bit of extra tension because of him being a grumpy irish pub landlord of the old school style   in a venue  which  is  50%  club 

the  pub to club transition means  a culture clash for both sides.

my uncle is  also irish pub landlord.  can imagin him even letting  half the bands i know in the pub in the first place


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

panglossian said:


> Hiya. Breaking it down:
> 
> - Taking an outside drink into a pub does not compare to _physical violence_. These things are on different scales. Surely this is obvious.
> - the screenshots themselves are not what's weird. Taking the screenshots implies that you have an issue with the information given in them, but aren't willing to engage with their author yourselves. Why not? Is it because it makes you feel safer to poke fun at them away from Twitter? If you genuinely believe their content is invalid, why not point this out directly?
> ...



If you get pissed on your own booze in a pub and refuse to leave when asked and act an arsehole, a physical throwing out of the pub is to be expected. I'm not condoning the alleged racism. However act like an arsehole and get treated like one. Not complicated is it.


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> If you get pissed on your own booze in a pub and refuse to leave when asked and act an arsehole, a physical throwing out of the pub is to be expected. I'm not condoning the alleged racism. However act like an arsehole and get treated like one. Not complicated is it.


you wouldn't have caught GG Allin complaining on twitter about the venue the next day, and he got actually injured every show.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Once again, the details of what happened here are sketchy but unpleasant none-the-less (see previous posts). But I am thoroughly uncomfortable with attempts to turn this into a race and gender motivated incident.
> 
> At risk of sounding a little pedantic, is Simona (SimSimSimSimSim on U75) ageist because she describes Seamus as "Old man landlord" or is she a non-ageist who loves all of our grans but in the heat of the moment is thoughtlessly using the irrelevant word "old" in order to insult someone (who really isn't an old man). I'm not particularly riled by the "old man" gibe itself but by the poster's self righteous attempts to turn this incident into a race and gender motivated attack (on the grounds that after the event the landlord may or may not have said 'Fuck off Paki' and the other party was female) whilst in the same breath being similarly carelessly discriminatory against another group of people. Just because ageism isn't as high profile discriminating as other 'isms' does not mean it is not often as just as hurtful and damaging.
> 
> I'm sure it was inadvertent but "being in the heat of the moment" does not make discriminatory comments ok. A little self awareness of one's own's imperfections might help with understanding and relating to the behaviour others and clam things down.


 
 No, no, no, the sexist part was posting up screenshots of someone's _public_ twitter posts, without their consent.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

i got refused entry from a pub once because i wore shorts so was obviously insane


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

so we are no longer allowed to quote a woman, no matter what nor that the quotes were made in public?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i got refused entry from a pub once because i wore shorts so was obviously insane


 
it was about 40 below zero ffs.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

it's never polite to grab a lady's screenshot


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i got refused entry from a pub once because i wore shorts so was obviously insane



You *are* insanse though shippy


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 5, 2012)

Edit: see you've discussed this subsequently...



RadRadRad said:


> Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus... Allo' Darlin


 
What's the actual Allo' Darlin story? I keep seeing people talk about it (and Elizabeth called Seamus 'vile' on Twitter earlier) but I don't know what actually happened.

(by the way, thought your blog post was about the most level-headed thing I've read on this sad event...)


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:


> (by the way, thought your blog post was about the most level-headed thing I've read on this sad event...)


Thanks.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:


> What's the actual Allo' Darlin story? I keep seeing people talk about it (and Elizabeth called Seamus 'vile' on Twitter earlier) but I don't know what actually happened.
> 
> (by the way, thought your blog post was about the most level-headed thing I've read on this sad event...)


 
Nice one, I tried to be as objective as possible which I know is impossible but I thought a credible and not clearly directly bias response was needed. The response on Anorakforum.com is also brilliant. Apparently she said that everyone should go to The Lovely Egg's show when their set was finished whilst on stage and Seamus threw a wobbly about his potential losses and somewhere in the mix Elizabeth got banned from the venue (I think this is the story anyway).

Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Nice one, I tried to be as objective as possible which I know is impossible but I thought a credible and not clearly directly bias response was needed. The response on Anorakforum.com is also brilliant. *Apparently she said that everyone should go to The Lovely Egg's show when their set was finished whilst on stage and Seamus threw a wobbly about his potential losses* and somewhere in the mix Elizabeth got banned from the venue (I think this is the story anyway).
> 
> Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.


 
This does ring a bell as it was the night The Lovely Eggs played at Offline at The Albert (The Lovely Eggs are fucking amazing ).  I can see why he might be a bit pissed off about that tbh.  It's not really the done thing if you're playing at a venue to advise everyone to fuck off to another venue when you've finished playing   That said not sure it warrants a barring or whatever.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

nipsla said:


> This does ring a bell as it was the night The Lovely Eggs played at Offline at The Albert (The Lovely Eggs are fucking amazing ). I can see why he might be a bit pissed off about that tbh. It's not really the done thing if you're playing at a venue to advise everyone to fuck off to another venue when you've finished playing  That said not sure it warrants a barring or whatever.


 
Of course but most people know how to express that they didn't like something rationally, politely and professionally like any venue owner would be expected to do. When I am at work I know the limits of my role as worker and know what is and isn't acceptable.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

I'd be livid if I paid a band to play and they used the opportunity to suggest my customers leave. Whether I'd have the row there and then, ideally not, but I'd never book them again.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> No, no, no, the sexist part was posting up screenshots of someone's _public_ twitter posts, without their consent.


 
What a load of old bollocks. Public words on the internet reappear elsewhere shocker. Deal with it.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Of course but most people know how to express that they didn't like something rationally, politely and professionally like any venue owner would be expected to do. When I am at work I know the limits of my role as worker and know what is and isn't acceptable.


 
whereas he acts as if he owns the bloody place.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 5, 2012)

What a hullabaloo


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I noted that some people reading this thread were coming from Drowned In Sound so took and look.
> Blimey, they've been spammed to fuck.


 
I just clicked on that, and now I have a real hankering for ZITHROMAX, [URL='http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/festivals/4357582']TADALAFIL and [URL='http://drownedinsound.com/community/boards/festivals/4357580']SILDENAFIL, anyone know where I can get some?  [/URL] [/URL]


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> again, wasn't there - but is "using racist language" and "racial abuse" being mixed up here? both very bad, by the way, in case this is not clear. (and i'm not white, if that matters)


Is there a difference? I don't think so


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> whereas he acts as if he owns the bloody place.


10/10. Top posting.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.


 
You lose slightly more than three pounds fifty over a bottle of vodka. Even a quarter bottle. And you're basically justifying theft! Theft which could, if everyone chooses to behave that way, make the venue go into liquidation. How selfish is that?


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Of course but most people know how to express that they didn't like something rationally, politely and professionally like any venue owner would be expected to do. When I am at work I know the limits of my role as worker and know what is and isn't acceptable.


 
Oh I don't disagree with you at all on that front. But it's not quite as straightforward. He's the licensee and with pubs it's the their rules. I might think that a barring in that case is an overreaction, but tbh it's not my decision and it's tough shit on that front.

For example my band played a gig in a venue last Saturday. And then we and a load of our mates fucked off to another pub about half an hour after we'd finished. I think the management would have been well within their rights to be very pissed off if I'd announced it on stage and half the venue left with us.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

Looks like arseholes on all sides. One to chalk up to experience and forget about imo.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Nice one, I tried to be as objective as possible which I know is impossible but I thought a credible and not clearly directly bias response was needed. The response on Anorakforum.com is also brilliant. Apparently she said that everyone should go to The Lovely Egg's show when their set was finished whilst on stage and Seamus threw a wobbly about his potential losses and somewhere in the mix Elizabeth got banned from the venue (I think this is the story anyway).
> 
> Interesting that this whole affair was his loss of about £3.50 because someone had smuggled in some vodka. It appears if you tell the bloke he is going to lose a quid he can't be trusted. Shouldn't tell him about the energy drink I smuggled in during the Oddbox Weekender.


 
The band are well out of order for doing that, not surprised Saemus "threw a wobbly"

And from what I've heard the abusive girl from the band drank a lot more than £3.50 worth of booze. 

Would you be happy to pay someone, and then all they want to do is steal from you, then tell you to "fuck off" when you catch them at it ?


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:


> could i find out, is there any person who heard the racist bit first hand?


one things for sure, if the band did just make up the racist bit because they knew the actual story wouldn't get them a lot of sympathy, or even worse to get a few more hits on their website, then that would make them the lowest of the low... IF that was the case (still haven't heard any first hand confirmations of it)


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> You lose slightly more than three pounds fifty over a bottle of vodka. Even a quarter bottle. And you're basically justifying theft! Theft which could, if everyone chooses to behave that way, make the venue go into liquidation. How selfish is that?


You don't understand. He is being *objective...*


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jul 5, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Oh I don't disagree with you at all on that front. But it's not quite as straightforward. He's the licensee and with pubs it's the their rules. I might think that a barring in that case is an overreaction, but tbh it's not my decision and it's tough shit on that front.
> 
> For example my band played a gig in a venue last Saturday. And then we and a load of our mates fucked off to another pub about half an hour after we'd finished. I think the management would have been well within their rights to be very pissed off if I'd announced it on stage and half the venue left with us.


 
Yeah, but they didn't kick you up the arse and call you a fat cunt, did they? I mean - it didn't happen and this did.

I'm confused by the urbans reaction to this tbh


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Is there a difference? I don't think so


 
i guess whether you're calling someone a so and so to someone's face vs not.  just because both are deplorable doesn't mean there's not a difference.  rape and murder are different.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 5, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> i guess whether you're calling someone a so and so to someone's face vs not.  just because both are deplorable doesn't mean there's not a difference.  rape and murder are different.


I beg your pardon?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

5t3IIa said:
			
		

> Yeah, but they didn't kick you up the arse and call you a fat cunt, did they? I mean - it didn't happen and this did.
> 
> I'm confused by the urbans reaction to this tbh



Differing stories are differing....


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Differing stories are differing....


 
True. I'm exhausted tbh.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> You lose slightly more than three pounds fifty over a bottle of vodka. Even a quarter bottle. And you're basically justifying theft! Theft which could, if everyone chooses to behave that way, make the venue go into liquidation. How selfish is that?


 
How am I justifying theft? She brought it with her own money. She personally would not have brought a whole bottle of Vodka from the venue for her own consumption so they lost around £4/5/6 quid of potential drinks. Make up any figure which you think fits. 

Everyone wouldn't choose to behave like that because we have established norms and customs for those types of situations you are just playing devils advocate. I am sure most people on this forum have previously sneaked something they know they haven't into a music venue // bar // club especially when they are young and poor, I bloody well know I have, and they still buy plenty of drinks on other occasions or even on the same occasion.

Taking outsider drinks from people in a professional manner without resorting to nearly pulling someones hair out should be a skill which you gain through owning a pub // music venue over many years and dealing with difficult people which he must have to do weekly.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

5t3IIa said:
			
		

> True. I'm exhausted tbh.



I would walk away from this thread then.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I would walk away from this thread then.


 
I regretted posting in it the second I hit reply


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Yeah, but they didn't kick you up the arse and call you a fat cunt, did they? I mean - it didn't happen and this did.
> 
> I'm confused by the urbans reaction to this tbh


 
Eh?  You realise we're talking about a different thing to the one in the OP?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jul 5, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Eh? You realise we're talking about a different thing to the one in the OP?


 
Yes. Sorry, I mis-posted


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> I'm confused by the urbans reaction to this tbh


i think it's because calls on twitter etc for a boycott, and throwing around accusations of racism, could have an actual real life effect on the venue, people's jobs etc.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

nipsla said:
			
		

> Eh?  You realise we're talking about a different thing to the one in the OP?



She is tired


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> The band are well out of order for doing that, not surprised Saemus "threw a wobbly"
> 
> And from what I've heard the abusive girl from the band drank a lot more than £3.50 worth of booze.
> 
> Would you be happy to pay someone, and then all they want to do is steal from you, then tell you to "fuck off" when you catch them at it ?


 
The band didn't get paid anyway. Bands get paid by promoters who get money from door sales. They didn't steal anything. She wouldn't have brought that much booze.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad... It's the telling the landlord to fuck off, when you're caught, that's the dumb bit. Nothing good is going to happen after that.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> How am I justifying theft? She brought it with her own money. She personally would not have brought a whole bottle of Vodka from the venue for her own consumption so they lost around £4/5/6 quid of potential drinks. Make up any figure which you think fits.


 
Did you present this wisdom to Seamus on the night?


----------



## fortyplus (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm not going to comment on the merits of the case; sounds like the booze was mainly responsible - it usually is.  People in their cups say and do things that are bang out of order.

But - call me old-fashioned - I really don't think it's ever ok to smuggle booze into venues. Yes, bar prices are higher than supermarket prices. No, it's not a rip-off. The venue has staff and much higher overheads than a supermarket. Some of them even pay the bands from the extra takings (the hootahob does; I'm not sure about the Windmill), but even if they don't actually pay the musicians they contribute the backline and the desk, perhaps the sound guy. The deal is you get the gig and the exposure - worth a lot in the Windmill -  your following buys beer.  It's much less about the price of one or two drinks than about the whole principle of the thing, and if I were a pub landlord I'd be very touchy about it. Unfortunately it's not just preloading; I'm afraid it's now quite common for people to pack a hipflask rather than pay bar prices, and it's not right. 

I suppose it's just the young people aping the ethics of the bankers; doesn't make it right though.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:
			
		

> i think it's because calls on twitter etc for a boycott, and throwing around accusations of racism, could have an actual real life effect on the venue, people's jobs etc.



Especially when the person does not want 'the hassle' of pressing charges.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Did you present this wisdom to Seamus on the night?


 
I don't really think rational thinking is my job. Nor is it my job to tell someone who I have no association with about something I have no association with.

All I told him was that because he attacked a woman I was not going to go to his venue or buy drinks from him again. His reaction was to man-handle me and attempt to punch me. Charmer. Fully justified though right guys?


----------



## rutabowa (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> I don't really think rational thinking is my job. Nor is it my job to tell someone who I have no association with about something I have no association with.
> 
> All I told him was that because he attacked a woman I was not going to go to his venue or buy drinks from him again. His reaction was to man-handle me and attempt to punch me. Charmer. Fully justified though right guys?


so the racism bit: did it happen?


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Yes. Sorry, I mis-posted


 
Oh good. I'll let you off as it's you 



Badgers said:


> She is tired


 
Why?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> How am I justifying theft? She brought it with her own money. She personally would not have brought a whole bottle of Vodka from the venue for her own consumption so they lost around £4/5/6 quid of potential drinks. Make up any figure which you think fits.


 
No, no, no, that isn't how it works. You get to use the pub and its facilities on the understanding you buy drinks from them. If you circumvent this process by taking in your own booze you've basically got your hand in the till. It doesn't matter how much she _would_ have drank if she did buy drinks from the bar (anyone can make retrospective claims like this) it matters how much she _did _drink that wasn't going into the licencee's coffers. And to add insult to injury she'd just been paid for her work there. Hypocrisy or what?


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> The band didn't get paid anyway. Bands get paid by promoters who get money from door sales. They didn't steal anything. She wouldn't have brought that much booze.


FFS. Bands get paid by promoters who take money on the door and get the venue for free (or for a small fee) in return for attracting people there to ... buy drinks!


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

It also causes the landlord trouble if he's caught with people drinking off license sales on his on license premises. 

So what seemed to be some larks for the singer could cause him to lose his license, as well as lose income.


----------



## RadRadRad (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> FFS. Bands get paid by promoters who take money on the door and get the venue for free (or for a small fee) in return for attracting people there to ... buy drinks!


 
Which I did. Never again though.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 5, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I beg your pardon?


oh i was trying to spark a philosophical debate about whether it is racial abuse if i described somebody to someone else (e.g. a police) as "that ****", or is it only abuse if I was saying that to someone "like omg you are a ****"  it's racist, in both cases, obv.  but is there a difference in using bigoted vocabulary and direct verbal attack (what I imagine as "racial abuse")?

But now i think it would a pretty boring debate, sorry.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 5, 2012)

It's racist behaviour regardless of who is meant to hear it


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Which I did. Never again though.


 


Rushy said:


> FFS. Bands get paid by promoters who take money on the door and get the venue for free (or for a small fee) in return for attracting people there to ... buy drinks!


 
Not understanding how this stuff works is why the music scene goes through such bad periods sometimes.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

The Tuts and their fans sound like a right bunch of wankers, personally I'll be boycotting any gig where they're on the bill.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Which I did.


 
What, a couple of cokes with ice to mix with the vodka?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> The Tuts and their fans sound like a right bunch of wankers, personally I'll be boycotting any gig where they're on the bill.


 
Assuming any venues will agree to have them when they learn they bring their own drinks in.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

What I'm amazed about is that there's no video footage.

People take videos of everything nowadays


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

when i was a kid i'd try and sneak booze in all sorts of places.  if i was caught, i got thrown out.  if i refused to go, the bouncers or bar staff removed me.  if i fought back, i'd be removed harder.  sometimes people were nice about it, other times i got a few bruises.  you live and learn.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> All I told him was that because he attacked a woman I was not going to go to his venue or buy drinks from him again. His reaction was to man-handle me and attempt to punch me. Charmer. Fully justified though right guys?


 
Not at all


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> when i was a kid i'd try and sneak booze in all sorts of places. if i was caught, i got thrown out. if i refused to go, the bouncers or bar staff removed me. if i fought back, i'd be removed harder. sometimes people were nice about it, other times i got a few bruises. you live and learn.


 
This


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

It's one thing taking the piss by smuggling booze into a pub. It's another level of taking the piss when smuggling booze in a pub and then refusing to go when caught and thus needlessly escalating the situation. But it's seriously beyond taking the piss if you smuggle booze into a pub, refuse to go when asked and then start a fucking campaign trying to get everyone to boycott the venue over an altercation *WHICH YOU CAUSED!   *


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> How am I justifying theft? She brought [the bottle of vodka] with her own money. She personally would not have brought a whole bottle of Vodka from the venue for her own consumption so they lost around £4/5/6 quid of potential drinks. Make up any figure which you think fits.





Rushy said:


> Did you present this wisdom to Seamus on the night?


 


RadRadRad said:


> I don't really think rational thinking is my job. Nor is it my job to tell someone who I have no association with about something I have no association with.


 

Sorry. I was being a little sarcastic and I apprecaite that is not always obvious online. What I meant was that your argument is childishly naive and that if you had presented it to him on the night I can see why he might have taken such a dislike to you - particularly since The Windmill is his livelihood. I personally would not have swung at you. But I might have given it some consideration.


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It's one thing taking the piss by smuggling booze into a pub. It's another level of taking the piss when smuggling booze in a pub and then refusing to go and thus needlessly escalating the situation. But it's seriously beyond taking the piss if you smuggle booze into a pub, refuse to go when asked and then start a fucking campaign trying to get everyone to boycott the venue over an altercation *WHICH YOU CAUSED!   *


 

Don't forget:





RadRadRad said:


> ....Throughout The Tuts set Nadia, from the band, had clearly had a lot to drink, she offered members of the audience a sip of her vodka Smirnoff bottle and,most hilariously, asked one my friends his ethnic origin to which her response was “nice”. At this point nothing happened, the vodka remained on the stage and the band continued their set.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What I'm amazed about is that there's no video footage.
> 
> People take videos of everything nowadays


 
actually that's really true.  i'm surprised as well.


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:


> so the racism bit: did it happen?


 
Seamus says no.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

I think what's more upsetting now, is that the tuts account of this is now being picked up by other people / bloggers / promoters who I know and is being repeated as the whole, factual account of the events.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> Just to be quite clear this isn't the first time the Windmill has got in trouble because of Seamus. Both Allo' Darlin, now playing the KCLU in September and sell out most of their shows, have boycotted the venue due to an incident with him. There are also reports that MJ Hibbett, also known to indiepop fans, has a similar boycott towards to venue for reasons which I cannot claim to know.
> 
> Furthermore, TO REPEAT MYSELF ONCE AGAIN Nadia's history, again if you want to claim she had it coming (which I wouldn't), doesn't really matter when you consider Seamus lashed out at other people who have no association with herself or her band or violence.


frankly i'd boycott any band which played kcl(s)u


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:
			
		

> I think what's more upsetting now, is that the tuts account of this is now being picked up by other people / bloggers / promoters who I know and is being repeated as the whole, factual account of the events.



Which one of their accounts?


----------



## kittyP (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:
			
		

> I'd be livid if I paid a band to play and they used the opportunity to suggest my customers leave. Whether I'd have the row there and then, ideally not, but I'd never book them again.



I would most probably have a (verbal) pop at them too. 
And people that know me know that that is not usually my character. 

This is sounding more and more like a bunch of people taking the piss out of and pushing a venue in a very childish manner. 

And no, before anyone starts, I am in no way saying that assault or racism is ok at all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Once again, the details of what happened here are sketchy but unpleasant none-the-less (see previous posts). But I am thoroughly uncomfortable with attempts to turn this into a race and gender motivated incident.
> 
> At risk of sounding a little pedantic, is Simona (SimSimSimSimSim on U75) ageist because she describes Seamus as "Old man landlord" or is she a non-ageist who loves all of our grans but in the heat of the moment is thoughtlessly using the irrelevant word "old" in order to insult someone (who really isn't an old man). I'm not particularly riled by the "old man" gibe itself but by the poster's self righteous attempts to turn this incident into a race and gender motivated attack (on the grounds that after the event the landlord may or may not have said 'Fuck off Paki' and the other party was female) whilst in the same breath being similarly carelessly discriminatory against another group of people. Just because ageism isn't as high profile discriminating as other 'isms' does not mean it is not often as just as hurtful and damaging.
> 
> I'm sure it was inadvertent but "being in the heat of the moment" does not make discriminatory comments ok. A little self awareness of one's own's imperfections might help with understanding and relating to the behaviour others and clam things down.


i haven't read all through this thread. but it strikes me that someone saying 'fuck off paki' in front of cops - even brixton cops - is probably asking for trouble. what i wonder is, was PERKIE nearby and vocal at the time? because without being there or knowing precisely what happened, it seems to me more likely he said 'fuck off perkie', because if he had any history of racism he'd be operating a pub in very much the wrong area.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Seamus says no.


 
Whether he said it or not, it wouldn't be good for business if he said yes


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> I think what's more upsetting now, is that the tuts account of this is now being picked up by other people / bloggers / promoters who I know and is being repeated as the whole, factual account of the events.


 
_A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on..._


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> _A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on..._


hold up while i do up the laces


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> hold up while i do up the laces


 
It needs to invest in some adequate slip ons.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> How am I justifying theft? She brought it with her own money. She personally would not have brought a whole bottle of Vodka from the venue for her own consumption so they lost around £4/5/6 quid of potential drinks. Make up any figure which you think fits.
> 
> Everyone wouldn't choose to behave like that because we have established norms and customs for those types of situations you are just playing devils advocate. I am sure most people on this forum have previously sneaked something they know they haven't into a music venue // bar // club especially when they are young and poor, I bloody well know I have, and they still buy plenty of drinks on other occasions or even on the same occasion.
> 
> Taking outsider drinks from people in a professional manner without resorting to nearly pulling someones hair out should be a skill which you gain through owning a pub // music venue over many years and dealing with difficult people which he must have to do weekly.


there's an established practice whereby bands and venues come to an arrangement beforehand about drinks. why didn't this band talk to the landlord before waving brought in drink round the pub? i would have thought that the landlord would be angrier about the example set than the £5/£10 not in his till.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> A lie can be halfway around the world before the truth has got its boots on...



Or (for balance) a carefully edited version of the truth.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Or (for balance) a carefully edited version of the truth.


which truth?


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i haven't read all through this thread. but it strikes me that someone saying 'fuck off paki' in front of cops - even brixton cops - is probably asking for trouble. what i wonder is, was PERKIE nearby and vocal at the time? because without being there or knowing precisely what happened, it seems to me more likely he said 'fuck off perkie', because if he had any history of racism he'd be operating a pub in very much the wrong area.


I agree - what bothers me it that this is being presented as a racially motivated incident whereas it appears to be an incident in which a landlord badly mismanaged the removal of drunk and aggressive punter. Some time after which, it is alleged that he made that remark in front of police (which he apparently denies and which no one is prepared to press charges for but which, if true, no one is condoning).


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> I agree - what bothers me it that this is being presented as a racially motivated incident whereas it appears to be an incident in which a landlord badly mismanaged the removal of drunk and aggressive punter. Some time after which, it is alleged that he made that remark in front of police (which he apparently denies and which no one is prepared to press charges for but which, if true, no one is condoning).


i wouldn't be surprised if the landlord was the soberest person there and half the problem is people getting together for a drink/smoke later and concocting a new truth for themselves.


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> there's an established practice whereby bands and venues come to an arrangement beforehand about drinks. why didn't this band talk to the landlord before waving brought in drink round the pub? i would have thought that the landlord would be angrier about the example set than the £5/£10 not in his till.


 
Read the whole thread, the rider situation has been covered, as has the late arrival of the band, meaning they pretty much started setting up as soon as they were in the venue.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> there's an established practice whereby bands and venues come to an arrangement beforehand about drinks. why didn't this band talk to the landlord before waving brought in drink round the pub? i would have thought that the landlord would be angrier about the example set than the £5/£10 not in his till.


 
Thing is that at the Windmill the door and the band liaison is done by the promoter not the landlord. If the line up won't bring in enough to cover costs (sound person,door, flyers, back line etc.) then the promoter either dips into their profits to give them a rider (usual drinks tokens at the Windmill isn't it?) or you get a tenner and then pointed towards the co-op for some cans to be drunk in the park under the windmill. Or, as I've seem you go into the old disabled loo / broom cupboard that haunts Mrs Magpie to this very day, and decant a beer into a pint glass. 

The band would have negotiated rider / payment with the promoter in advance. Tuts singer appears to have arrived drinking, and then carried on drinking.

The  'like a female libertines' review on their website sums it up - hormones and booze and a bit of controversy causes a reaction and then all of a sudden its everyone else's fault.

All rights and no responsibilities. Now where's my copy of the Daily Mail?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> which truth?



Not my sexist version sadly


----------



## clandestino (Jul 5, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Seamus says no.


 
Then I think you guys need to issue a statement too, because the Tuts statement is being reprinted everywhere.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Thing is that at the Windmill the door and the band liaison is done by the promoter not the landlord. If the line up won't bring in enough to cover costs (sound person,door, flyers, back line etc.) then the promoter either dips into their profits to give them a rider (usual drinks tokens at the Windmill isn't it?) or you get a tenner and then pointed towards the co-op for some cans to be drunk in the park under the windmill. Or, as I've seem you go into the old disabled loo / broom cupboard that haunts Mrs Magpie to this very day, and decant a beer into a pint glass.
> 
> The band would have negotiated rider / payment with the promoter in advance. Tuts singer appears to have arrived drinking, and then carried on drinking.
> 
> ...


you have never seen me go into the loo at the windmill and decant a beer into a pint glass.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Look, Seamus is being accused of being racist by people who spent the first few pages of this thread accusing everyone of being sexist. Or 'playing the sexism card' as was said on twitter. Was the racism card played too?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Look, Seamus is being accused of being racist by people who spent the first few pages of this thread accusing us of being sexist. Or 'playing the sexism card' as was said on twitter. Was the racism card played too?


the fucking full deck was used.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> you have never seen me go into the loo at the windmill and decant a beer into a pint glass.


Sherry?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> Sherry?


nah, i don't drink.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 5, 2012)

What about an energy drink of a cup of herbal tea?


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:


> i think it's because calls on twitter etc for a boycott, and throwing around accusations of racism, could have an actual real life effect on the venue, people's jobs etc.


And let's face it, if they hadn't had the idea of turning it into a great music venue, as a run down estate pub on a side street out of the town centre, that pub would probably be boarded up by now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> Read the whole thread, the rider situation has been covered, as has the late arrival of the band, meaning they pretty much started setting up as soon as they were in the venue.


yeh vodka out and shot glasses full as soon as they were in the pub


There are liquorless souls that follow paths 
Where whiskey never ran -- 
Let me live in a bar by the side of the road 
And drink from the old beer can. 

Let me live in a bar by the side of the road 
Where the race of man goes dry, 
The men who are "drys" and the men who are "wets" 
(But none are so "wet" as I.) 

I see from the bar by the side of the road, 
A land with a droutht accurst; 
And men who press on with the ardour of beer, 
And men who are faint with thirst. 

I know there are bars in Old Mexico, 
And schooners of glorious height. 
That the booze splashes on through the long afternoon, 
And floods through the gutters of night. 

But still I take gin when the travelers take gin 
And Scotch with the whiskey man, 
Nor ever refuse a thirsty soul 
A swig from my old beer can. 

For why should I praise Prohibition's restraints, 
Or love the revenue man? 
Let me live in a bar by the side of the road 
And drink from the old beer can!


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> Read the whole thread, the rider situation has been covered, as has the late arrival of the band, meaning they pretty much started setting up as soon as they were in the venue.


 
Rider: "There was no rider as I prefer to pay the bands decent money than spend it on cheap booze. If I was to provide a rider, I'd have less money to pay the bands".

If you think think in any way makes the band's behaviour reasonable you're a fucking oddball.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 5, 2012)

I download music illegally

I don't think I would ever flow bootleg metallic albums in front of lars ulric

If I did and he kicked my head in  although he wouldn't be justified 

Y'know


----------



## cks (Jul 5, 2012)

I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation. 
She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner. 
Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there. 
As an observer attempting to be neutral, I have to admit I didn't see everything, but I did see the crowd outside the pub being completely calm, certainly not pissed (this was only 9pm) and trying to reason with the management, whereas the lads on the door were drunk, lary and sexist to a man. 

In my experience a certain type of bloke has a problem with women asserting themselves, let alone defending themselves, and I think there's an element of that here, both from what I witnessed last night, and a lot of comments on this forum. Some people could also do with watching Jodie Foster in The Accused if you think it's ok to use a woman's 'history' and behaviour against her to justify violence. Good to know decades of feminist thought have affected you all so deeply. 

I won't be going back to the Windmill. Which I'm sure they're gutted about.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> But you misinterpreted it. She is sick, as I am, for giving a venue money following the actions that we witnessed. Both me and Simona have given that bar, on average, around £20 at least per visit to the Windmill on the bar and it is horrible to know that the money hasn't gone to a good cause but to a not only sexist and racist but from his attempt to punch me just all round violent thug.
> 
> I was quoted by a different member. I retract my comments. I still find it strange that Simona's personal details matter whereas mine do not when they are being quoted as if her comments and opinions have less credibility.


 
Mate, you don't "give" any boozer money, you swap your cash for their products. That's capitalism, not a bleeding "good cause".


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> Rider: "There was no rider as I prefer to pay the bands decent money than spend it on cheap booze. If I was to provide a rider, I'd have less money to pay the bands".
> 
> If you think think in any way makes the band's behaviour reasonable you're a fucking oddball.


 
Where did I say it makes anything ok? The singer was out of order for sneaking in the booze (wish I'd spotted it, and could have prevented this whole thing kicking off) and what happened afterwards was, too. I was merely pointing out what the rider situation was to someone who'd already stated they'd not read the whole thread.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I download music illegally
> 
> I don't think I would ever flow bootleg metallic albums in front of lars ulric
> 
> ...


 
I think some bands do do it, and get away with it. 

But they tend to be selling 15,000+ tickets; not getting some of their mates along to a pub who they then encourage to go elsewhere after their set. It's really poor form.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:


> I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
> No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
> She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
> Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
> ...


nice try but seriously fuck off with generalising and making assumptions about this forum and its posters when you've just got here and probably only read this thread


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

I have seen The Accused. It has no relevance whatsoever to this thread or the (various reports of the) incident.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:


> I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
> No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
> She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
> Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
> ...


it's posts like this which make me think about taking up drinking again and travelling to the other side of london to a pub i haven't been to in something like eight years.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> I'd be livid if I paid a band to play and they used the opportunity to suggest my customers leave. Whether I'd have the row there and then, ideally not, but I'd never book them again.


The venue doesn't pay them. The bands take the money on the door.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I have seen The Accused. It has no relevance whatsoever to this thread or the (various reports of the) incident.


why let that get in the way?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

Being female does not automatically make one a feminist.

Getting tanked up, telling the landlord to fuck off when he catches you drinking smuggled in booze, and throwing punches at the guy when he asks you to leave are not acts of feminism.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> BEEN MASSIVELY EDITED!
> 
> Well of course I cannot comment. I understand your perspective but so much testimony has now been given and it seems a bit off to simply declare that these claims are "dubious". In my own blog I have tried to be as clear and as objective as possible I have been critical of both sides and I would argue that the interpretation can be seen as having a degree of validity.
> 
> ...


 
Unfortunately for the general public in general, and pub-goers in particular, boozers are pretty much the fiefdom of their landlords/owners, and as long as his actions aren't criminal, Seamus, like other landlords, can be as big a cunt as he likes. Personally, I hope anyone who felt that they were assaulted takes it further. Arsehole landlords were a bane of my younger existence.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:


> I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
> No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
> She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
> Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
> ...


 
There's lots of women posting on this thread (I can think of at least ten, some of whom are active feminists) so i don't think we need you coming along and lecturing everyone that they have some kind of problem with women. The known facts are that she took the piss. The rest are accusations which she 'doesn't want the hassle' of reporting. TBH I lost sympathy when everyone was accused of being sexist (the women here too!) and I seriously think you and your mates are being liberal with the truth but can't back down now without losing face.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> The venue doesn't pay them. The bands take the money on the door.



Ah ok. What happens on the free nights, out of interest?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> why let that get in the way?



Don't oppress me


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> Ah ok. What happens on the free nights, out of interest?


 
Varies from venue to venue, some don't pay, some give a cut of the bar spend.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> Varies from venue to venue, some don't pay, some give a cut of the bar spend.



Was meaning specifically at the Windmill.

(I think they have a page about their policy - *goes to look it up*)


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 5, 2012)

Posted @ www.facebook.com/windmillbrixton

About last night…..
I wasn’t in the main room at the time of the incident last night that primarily involved Seamus, the landlord of the Windmill and Nadia from The Tuts.
I’ve spent most of the day reading stuff and listening to people who have given me both sides of the story. The Tuts’ have also released a blog post that you can read here: http://thetuts.tumblr.com/post/26555827192/last-night-at-the-windmill-brixton
The bit about this that particularly saddens me is the reference to racial abuse. I asked around about this a lot and quizzed Seamus and he is adamant that he never did that, and actually sounded very surprised as he didn’t know what ethnic origin Nadia was of.
As I said I wasn’t in the room but have spoken to Seamus whose side of the story is quite different from Nadia’s in that she was asked not to drink from a bottle of vodka in the venue a number of times and then verbals got exchanged. She was asked to leave and then others from both sides, I think, got involved. She apparently refused. Some say the expulsion was excessive but on the other hand the only punches reportedly thrown were by Nadia on Seamus and a customer who was trying to help him out.
As the booker/venue promoter of the venue, I think enough know me to vouch for me and if Nadia, any of the band or her friends want to open further dialogue they can contact me and I’ll listen.

Tim


----------



## cks (Jul 5, 2012)

'fuck off with generalising and making assumptions about this forum and its posters when you've just got here and probably only read this thread'
Not particularly interested in your forum, I came here to make a point; that doesn't invalidate my point. 
Haven't made any assumptions or generalisations about anything or anyone, my comments are based on the opinions in this thread, the gist of which are basically 'she was asking for it, what did she expect?' 
I'm sorry if the film reference has confused or annoyed anyone but the point I'm making really isn't difficult, and I think my post was actually pretty reasonable considering I was there and could easily have got all emotional like a lot of people who weren't there seem to have done..


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

RadRadRad said:


> FROM FACEBOOK -
> *Simona Grace Irish*​​14 hours ago​from now on i am never stepping foot in the Brixton Windmill again. Seriously BOYCOTT IT. Old man landlord assaulted lead singer of The Tuts, pulled her hair and about 5 people had to get him off her. He then used RACIST TERMINOLOGY. Police had to be called. Been to some great gigs there in the past but now I can't let my money go to a racist who assaults women.​


 
Bit ageist, that.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:
			
		

> 'fuck off with generalising and making assumptions about this forum and its posters when you've just got here and probably only read this thread'
> Not particularly interested in your forum, I came here to make a point; that doesn't invalidate my point.
> Haven't made any assumptions or generalisations about anything or anyone, my comments are based on the opinions in this thread, the gist of which are basically 'she was asking for it, what did she expect?'
> I'm sorry if the film reference has confused or annoyed anyone but the point I'm making really isn't difficult, and I think my post was actually pretty reasonable considering I was there and could easily have got all emotional like a lot of people who weren't there seem to have done..



Read the thread properly from the start, and stop being a shit stirring kid please.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 5, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Posted @ www.facebook.com/windmillbrixton
> 
> About last night…..
> I wasn’t in the main room at the time of the incident last night that primarily involved Seamus, the landlord of the Windmill and Nadia from The Tuts.
> ...



Well done for posting that mate. Must be a shitty thing to be in the middle of


----------



## SW9 (Jul 5, 2012)

SOLIDARITY FOR THE WINDMILL!!!!!!!


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Posted @ www.facebook.com/windmillbrixton
> 
> About last night…..
> I wasn’t in the main room at the time of the incident last night that primarily involved Seamus, the landlord of the Windmill and Nadia from The Tuts.
> ...


This pretty much corroborates the version of events my friend saw, Nadia was the one who was attempting (and failing in a comedy manor so I'm told) to throw punches.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> Ah ok. What happens on the free nights, out of interest?


bare-knuckle fights in a scratch ring outside.


----------



## absurdabsurd (Jul 5, 2012)

*Disclaimers:* 

I was not at the Windmill to witness the incident(s) described. 

I do go to the Windmill regularly, have numerous friends who play there regularly, and know a fair number of the staff. 

I am not a regular poster or indeed visitor to this forum (forgive me).

I won't speculate at length about any of the finer details of what did or didn't happen (though openly admit that I am happy to stand by Tim's statement of events, particularly after reading this entire thread).

*Main point:* to anyone and everyone who has implied or alluded to the idea that what Seamus may or may not have done is made worse/compounded by the fact that the other main party involved is a girl: take your woman-as-victim scenarios and get out. Gender does not play into this, as much as there appears to be a particular brigade who would love to spin everything into a feminist issue. And, sad as it makes me, I feel like 90% of these discussions wouldn't be taking place if the person in question were a man (as has been pointed out previously in this thread).

For what it's worth: I am a girl. I have never felt unsafe, belittled, or in any way at the receiving end of sexism in all the times I have been at the Windmill - quite the opposite. I have felt welcome, safe, and more than able to speak my mind on an even footing with staff and punters alike.

It would be very strange indeed if the events of last night genuinely contravened the usual culture and atmosphere of the place in such drastic fashion.

So it would be lovely if we could at least put that side of the arguments to bed, regardless of what your take on the rest of events is.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Roof Dog does that with everyone, so don't think you're special.
> 
> He accidentally pissed on me one day


 
Accidentally, eh?

(good dog, there's your box of bonios)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Accidentally, eh?
> 
> (good dog, there's your box of bonios)


 
Yes, he was having a pee sideways above the door and the wind caught his pee and sprayed it over me walking in


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:


> you wouldn't have caught GG Allin complaining on twitter about the venue the next day, and he got actually injured every show.


 
GG used to complain if he *didn't* get kicked out of the venue and have the shit kicked out of him by the bouncers.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> Yes, he was having a pee sideways above the door and the wind caught his pee and sprayed it over me walking in



How sexist of him


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Accidentally, eh?
> 
> (good dog, there's your box of bonios)


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 5, 2012)

absurdabsurd said:


> *... *I am not a regular poster or indeed visitor to this forum (forgive me)...


 
i reckon you should stick around, you might like it here


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> i reckon you should stick around, you might like it here


once she gets used to our ways


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 5, 2012)

don't ever get used to their ways, whatever you do


----------



## Belushi (Jul 5, 2012)

Fresh meat


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 5, 2012)

down boy


----------



## Rushy (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:


> I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
> * She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault* because of the way he handled it. .


 
Hardly anyone on here is rushing to blindly back the venue. Mostly people seem keen to provide some balance to this ridiculous witch hunt based on ill considered statements of judgement like that highlighted above.

It strikes me that neither party had their finest hour and she is clearly not free of blame. Each should apologise to the other rather than this childish and hysterical escalation.

My suspicion is that the lady in question (and her friends) are resorting to trial by Tweet because they are not confident they would come out smelling of roses if the case were properly investigated.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Hardly anyone on here is rushing to blindly back the venue. Mostly people seem keen to provide some balance to this ridiculous witch hunt based on ill considered statements of judgement like that highlighted above.
> 
> It strikes me that neither party had their finest hour and she is clearly not free of blame. Each should apologise to the other rather than this childish and hysterical escalation.
> 
> My suspicion is that the lady in question (and her friends) are resorting to trial by Tweet because they are not confident they would come out smelling of roses if the case were properly investigated.


the longer this goes on the more the tuts will have to apologise for, as they're spreading it all over the interwebnet.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> My suspicion is that the lady in question (and her friends) are resorting to trial by Tweet because they are not confident they would come out smelling of roses if the case were properly investigated.


To be honest, they're smelling of Attar de Bloody Dubious Twats already.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the longer this goes on the more the tuts will have to apologise for, as they're spreading it all over the interwebnet.



I'd go as far as suggesting the thread title should have band's name added. It was an incident specifically involving them. Let's be sure that google searches for them bring up this thread, just for a bit of balance.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> To be honest, they're smelling of Attar de Bloody Dubious Twats already.


not so much smelling of vodka as vomit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> I'd go as far as suggesting the thread title should have band's name added. It was an incident specifically involving them. Let's be sure that google searches for them bring up this thread, just for a bit of balance.


that band name? do you mean THE TUTS?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the longer this goes on the more the tuts will have to apologise for, as they're spreading it all over the interwebnet.


 
It could backfire spectacularly and he'll get more customers


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 5, 2012)

When that kid started accusing everyone here of being sexist I could see the lie of the land. It reminded me of the time on the bus a mouthy schoolgirl called an old man with a walking stick sexist because he asked if he could have her seat.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> that band name? do you mean THE TUTS?



Yes - The violence at THE TUTS gig.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> Yes - The violence at THE TUTS gig.


what, the violence at THE TUTS gig sparked by the singer bringing in vodka and then swinging at the landlord?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:


> I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.




Most of the cinemas and whatevers I've ever been in didn't have bars., so smuggling in a half-bottle of Mother Raffertys' finest Potato Vodka didn't cut into their profits.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Being female does not automatically make one a feminist.
> 
> Getting tanked up, telling the landlord to fuck off when he catches you drinking smuggled in booze, and throwing punches at the guy when he asks you to leave are not acts of feminism.


 
I hope you're not implying that any woman would misuse feminism or feminist rhetoric to bolster their own selfish argument, drew!

It just doesn't happen, and if you claim it does, you're a sexist male bastard potential rapist!!


----------



## Onket (Jul 5, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> When that kid started accusing everyone here of being sexist I could see the lie of the land. It reminded me of the time on the bus a mouthy schoolgirl called an old man with a walking stick sexist because he asked if he could have her seat.


 
He was lucky that's all he got called. The paedo.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Most of the cinemas and whatevers I've ever been in didn't have bars., so smuggling in a half-bottle of Mother Raffertys' finest Potato Vodka didn't cut into their profits.


and mostly it wasn't 'smuggling it in', i was quite open about it.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

I think this thread has proved far more informative and educational than the sensationalistic tweets that appeared last night.

Unlike reading Twitter, it's good to hear all sides of the story and be able to make up your own mind regarding the context and credibility of the claims being made.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I think this thread has proved far more informative and educational than the sensationalistic tweets that appeared last night.
> 
> Unlike reading Twitter, it's good to hear all sides of the story and be able to make up your own mind regarding the context and credibility of the claims being made.


frankly it's not really credible that the landlord of a popular pub in brixton could have been for many years a crypto-racist, hiding his foul thoughts behind a facade of bonhomie and beery good cheer.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:


> 'fuck off with generalising and making assumptions about this forum and its posters when you've just got here and probably only read this thread'
> Not particularly interested in your forum, I came here to make a point; that doesn't invalidate my point.
> Haven't made any assumptions or generalisations about anything or anyone, my comments are based on the opinions in this thread, the gist of which are basically 'she was asking for it, what did she expect?'
> I'm sorry if the film reference has confused or annoyed anyone but the point I'm making really isn't difficult, and I think my post was actually pretty reasonable considering I was there and could easily have got all emotional like a lot of people who weren't there seem to have done..


 
It's not that your film reference is too "difficult" for us plebs, it's more that it's not really aposite.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> bare-knuckle fights in a scratch ring outside.


 
I'd pay good cash money to see a bare-knuckles bout between Minnie-the-Minx and roofdog.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> down boy


 
It's Belushi, electrodes to the genitals and half a ton of ice can't make him "down boy"!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:


> Hardly anyone on here is rushing to blindly back the venue. Mostly people seem keen to provide some balance to this ridiculous witch hunt based on ill considered statements of judgement like that highlighted above.


 
I know it's trite to say so, especially as I've already said similar, but pubs are very much "my house, my rules" establishments.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the longer this goes on the more the tuts will have to apologise for, as they're spreading it all over the interwebnet.


 
You'd almost think that THE TUTS were courting controversy, wouldn't you, following some corny plan concocted by Bill Drummond.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 5, 2012)

surely not?


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I think some bands do do it, and get away with it.
> 
> But they tend to be selling 15,000+ tickets; not getting some of their mates along to a pub who they then encourage to go elsewhere after their set. It's really poor form.


Just to be clear here, because a few people seem to have confused a couple of incidents:

The band telling people to go elsewhere was Allo Darlin' - that happened a couple of years (?) ago. They were encouraging people to go see another band, the Lovely Eggs. (Who AD fans would probably like). There's no connection with last night's incident, other than that both were at the Windmill and both thrown out.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> When that kid started accusing everyone here of being sexist I could see the lie of the land. It reminded me of the time on the bus a mouthy schoolgirl called an old man with a walking stick sexist because he asked if he could have her seat.


 
Rude little madam really annoyed me, she did. I only wanted her seat, ffs, not her hymen!


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:
			
		

> Just to be clear here, because a few people seem to have confused a couple of incidents:
> 
> The band telling people to go elsewhere was Allo Darlin' - that happened a couple of years (?) ago. They were encouraging people to go see another band, the Lovely Eggs.


Just in case you weren't aware of it, the Lovely Eggs were playing an event put on by an urban75-related club that night. 

So it was all our fault 
;-)


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Rushy said:
			
		

> My suspicion is that the lady in question (and her friends) are resorting to trial by Tweet because they are not confident they would come out smelling of roses if the case were properly investigated.



Far easier to fuck up a venue and possibly damage a man's reputation and livelihood with rumour and innuendo than have 'the hassle' of him defend himself against the allegations with the possibility of inconvenient eye witnesses coming out of the woodwork. Which opens them up to accusations of slander. Hope they've got decent lawyers.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 5, 2012)

Had I known gigs could be this entertaining, I would have gone to some these past 20 years.


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Just in case you weren't aware of it, the Lovely Eggs were playing an event put on by an urban75-related club that night.
> 
> So it was all our fault
> ;-)



You heartless monster! ;-)

(Oh well, this thread has reminded me that I had an account here and should spend some more time here, so not all bad...)


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 5, 2012)

@ C66
Well, libel. They've tweeted all over the shop, exhorted people to retweet the accusations and destroy his business. And all because some lead singer got pissed and lairy, threw a few punches and then in the cold light of the morning decided that it was racist. Who'd've thunk it? Lead singers are normally such quiet types with tiny egos.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:
			
		

> Just to be clear here, because a few people seem to have confused a couple of incidents:
> 
> The band telling people to go elsewhere was Allo Darlin' - that happened a couple of years (?) ago. They were encouraging people to go see another band, the Lovely Eggs. (Who AD fans would probably like). There's no connection with last night's incident, other than that both were at the Windmill and both thrown out.



Ah, OK. Fair dos.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 5, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> @ C66
> Well, libel. They've tweeted all over the shop, exhorted people to retweet the accusations and destroy his business. And all because some lead singer got pissed and lairy, threw a few punches and then in the cold light of the morning decided that it was racist. Who'd've thunk it? Lead singers are normally such quiet types with tiny egos.


 
*tuts*

*walks away*


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> frankly i'd boycott any band which played kcl(s)u


 
Frankly I'd boycott any band that sounds like Lily Allen covering old Shop Assistants songs.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 5, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> *tuts*


 I see what you did there!


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 5, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I hope you're not implying that any woman would misuse feminism or feminist rhetoric to bolster their own selfish argument, drew!
> 
> It just doesn't happen, and if you claim it does, you're a sexist male bastard potential rapist!!


My reputation as a "white knight" defending the poor innocent females has surely taken a battering today


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

Update:

My girlfriend has come in from work and she was in the room when it started:

Here's what she saw/witnessed:

I was in the room when the trouble started. Seamus dashed over to where the band were, there was some shouting, then he went to grab the singer in the way that bouncers grab someone to bundle them out of the room, I.e. arms around their body to contain them and so it's easier to move them. She moved so he actually ended up grabbing her hair. Then it all moved outside. I think he could have handled the situation better by talking rather than acting but it didn't look like an aggressive assault to me. Unfortunately the shouting that continued outside the venue from Seamus and a couple of their regular punters in the faces of people who weren't involved at all in the scuffle was aggressive and unnecessary.​


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

cks said:


> I take it everyone rushing to back the venue on principle has never sneaked a drink into any gig/cinema/whatever? Good for you.
> No-one comes out of a scuffle like this looking good, but there's a reason our natural instinct is to ask 'who started it?' and I hope we can all agree that breaking a rule is not on the same moral plain as verbal abuse and physical confrontation.
> She had alcohol she shouldn't have had, and the landlord had every right to ask her to leave, or better still, ask the promoter to have a word. However, the landlord was also drinking and possibly his judgement was impaired, I don't know. What I do know is that he didn't ask her anything, or speak to the promoter - what he did was steam in swearing at her, which she responded to in kind. He then tried to grab her, and it kicked off. She may well have pissed him off by her actions, but the incident itself was entirely his fault because of the way he handled it. Would she have gone quietly? I don't see why not, but we'll never know, will we? No-one spoke to her in a reasonable and professional manner.
> Now, I don't know the man, and for all I know he might be a lovely bloke 99.99% of the time or unless his sore points are pushed, but the point here is that it was his job to handle the situation, which he did incredibly badly, and things escalated from there.
> ...


 
You appear to think that merely being a woman gives one a license to behave like an arsehole and not expect consequences.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> Yes - The violence at THE TUTS gig.


 
Is that The Tuts who sound like Lily Allen covering old Shop Assistants songs?


----------



## killer b (Jul 5, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> You appear to think that merely being a woman gives one a license to behave like an arsehole and not expect consequences.


but jodie foster.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Is that The Tuts who sound like Lily Allen covering old Shop Assistants songs?


yes, it's THE TUTS who do that


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Blagsta said:
			
		

> You appear to think that merely being a woman gives one a license to behave like an arsehole and not expect consequences.



Or that the consequences are driven by racial and gender prejudice.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

killer b said:


> but jodie foster.


jodie foster's a special case, but she's been in taxi driver and silence of the lambs so you have to cut her a bit of slack.


----------



## bluestreak (Jul 5, 2012)

sorry, jodie foster has covered the shop assistants?


----------



## bluestreak (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> Update:
> 
> My girlfriend has come in from work and she was in the room when it started:
> 
> ...


 
Cheers Trev, that sounds a little saner and more like the sort of thing that happens...


----------



## ddraig (Jul 5, 2012)

it's all gone a bit "quiet over there" ain't it


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

bluestreak said:


> sorry, jodie foster has covered the shop assistants?


not at all. she's had some traumatic times like when she was being pursued in a basement by a mad serial killer and all that to-do with hannibal lecter. so she can get away with some things you'd pull other people up for.


----------



## paolo (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> Update:
> 
> My girlfriend has come in from work and she was in the room when it started:
> 
> ...



Based on what's been said already about the Tuts gig, that sounds quite plausible.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

paolo said:


> Based on what's been said already about the Tuts gig, that sounds quite plausible.


this is the violent TUTS who were supposed to play the windmill last night?


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

This thread has averaged getting on for a thousand page views per hour for 10 hours!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> This thread has averaged getting on for a thousand page views per hour for 10 hours!


 
How many new posters have posted today?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> How many new posters have posted today?


and how many of them will post tomorrow?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> and how many of them will post tomorrow?


 

Will have to see.  I get the feeling quite a few won't


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> This thread has averaged getting on for a thousand page views per hour for 10 hours!



It's those no claim no fee ambulance chasers getting excited.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It's those no claim no fee ambulance chasers getting excited.


It's just good to see urban being put to good use. When this forum is on form, it's as good as it gets IMO.


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Will have to see. I get the feeling quite a few won't


 
I doubt I'll have much to say beyond this thread not living in Brixton. But as the Promoter last night I thought it best to address some of what was being discussed in this thread. Didn't mean to intrude or anything.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> I doubt I'll have much to say beyond this thread not living in Brixton. But as the Promoter last night I thought it best to address some of what was being discussed in this thread. Didn't mean to intrude or anything.


 
There's plenty of other forums other than the Brixton one.  Don't let this thread put you off.  There's music threads, politics, loads of stuff on here


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:
			
		

> I doubt I'll have much to say beyond this thread not living in Brixton. But as the Promoter last night I thought it best to address some of what was being discussed in this thread. Didn't mean to intrude or anything.



Come into the politics forum. Much more friendly in there.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Come into the politics forum. Much more friendly in there.


----------



## Callie (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> I doubt I'll have much to say beyond this thread not living in Brixton. But as the Promoter last night I thought it best to address some of what was being discussed in this thread. Didn't mean to intrude or anything.


Id say a lot of people reading this arent from Brixton but may have been to the Windmill at some point like myself not that that is totally relevant.

This is all quite depressing really


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Come into the politics forum. Much more friendly in there.


 
you are a bad, bad man, C66.


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Come into the politics forum. Much more friendly in there.


 
To be fair I'm already active on two forums, facebook, twitter etc. Not sure my job gives me enough free time to post in another place.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

Suburban's fine when they're not sticking their knitting needles in your eye


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:
			
		

> To be fair I'm already active on two forums, facebook, twitter etc. Not sure my job gives me enough free time to post in another place.



Lose one of the other forums (and Facebook) and quit your job.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> To be fair I'm already active on two forums, facebook, twitter etc. Not sure my job gives me enough free time to post in another place.


 
Arseface and Twatter are crap.  Defect to here


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Arseface and Twatter are crap. Defect to here


 
They're useful tools for a music promoter. ;-)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> They're useful tools for a music promoter. ;-)


 
Well give up your job then


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:
			
		

> They're useful tools for a music promoter. ;-)



Lose the job and both other forums then. Stop making excuse and man/woman (not sexist me) up


----------



## TrevOddBox (Jul 5, 2012)

You lot want me penniless and homeless by the sounds of it.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> You lot want me penniless and homeless by the sounds of it.


 
Then you'll be able to make some valuable contributions to our benefits cuts threads.  You have to suffer for your art.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 5, 2012)

i've never been to brixton. and even if i did i'd avoid this lot like the plague


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> i've never been to brixton. and even if i did i'd avoid this lot like the plague


 
your sorts not wanted here.   

/dumped you first]


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> You lot want me penniless and homeless by the sounds of it.


you might get a book out of it like george orwell did.


----------



## Maggot (Jul 5, 2012)

Trouble at 'mill.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:
			
		

> You lot want me penniless and homeless by the sounds of it.



Drunk too


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

quimcunx said:
			
		

> you are a bad, bad man, C66.



Hey, for all we know he may inhabit a really niche corner of the left and not get his balls chewed off. Much.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:
			
		

> You lot want me penniless and homeless by the sounds of it.



But when some dick starts a thread calling you a 'professional beggar', we'll kick their ass! 

And you'll never get that kind of loyalty on faceache.


----------



## Callie (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> And you'll never get that kind of loyalty on faceache.


 
This thread proves otherwise  or is that just twitter?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Callie said:
			
		

> This thread proves otherwise  or is that just twitter?



I meant the majority consensus backing the homeless guy. I've been on other forums. They're grim.


----------



## Boycey (Jul 5, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> You lot want me penniless and homeless by the sounds of it.



Either/or and you'd fit right in


----------



## discokermit (Jul 5, 2012)

some right wankness on this thread.

call the cops!
prosecute!
the police would have arrested him if he'd been racist!
but she smuggled in drinks! which is theft!

massive fucking lol.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

This place is like the Hotel California.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

discokermit said:


> some right wankness on this thread.
> 
> call the cops!
> prosecute!
> ...


 
Personally, I thought that the suggestion "scratch disco's jag" had merit.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 5, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Personally, I thought that the suggestion "scratch disco's jag" had merit.


talking of proportionate responses, i should give you a good thrashing just for thinking about it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 5, 2012)

discokermit said:


> talking of proportionate responses, i should give you a good thrashing just for thinking about it.


 
You're welcome to try. 
TBF, I don't mind Jags, it's Rollers I loathe.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2012)

discokermit said:


> talking of proportionate responses, i should give you a good thrashing just for thinking about it.








discokermit recently


----------



## discokermit (Jul 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> discokermit recently


not that recent.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 5, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> it's Rollers I loathe.


i like them as well. i'm a shit revolutionary.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 5, 2012)

i've read bits of this thread through the day, and can i just say


----------



## ericjarvis (Jul 5, 2012)

rutabowa said:


> if you act the fool then occasionally you get comeback. if you want to act the fool but never get any comeback then you will have to boycott EVERYWHERE that there are people.



Seems like a plan to me.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> It's just good to see urban being put to good use. When this forum is on form, it's as good as it gets IMO.


This thread is as good as it gets?
Somebody shoot me now.


----------



## wurlycurly (Jul 5, 2012)

editor said:


> This thread has averaged getting on for a thousand page views per hour for 10 hours!


 
It's been a revolutionary thread for me in that I've gone from one clear-cut view to the other. Started of as Mr Outraged in defence of the poor TUTTS, now realise they're tragic figures who sound like Lily Allen covering old Shop Assistants songs. They should get full-arm tattoos; all the attention without the unnecessary aggro.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

discokermit said:
			
		

> some right wankness on this thread.
> 
> call the cops!
> prosecute!
> ...



Perhaps we should allow the guy's reputation to be destroyed through smears then? 

I'm no fan of the law. But at least people are assumed innocent until proven guilty down that path and he can have his day in court. What justice is this that you champion?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm not against people sneaking booze into pubs necessarily either. But don't play the injured party if you're caught out. What, fuck the guy over twice? Nice.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Perhaps we should allow the guy's reputation to be destroyed through smears then?
> 
> I'm no fan of the law. But at least people are assumed innocent until proven guilty down that path and he can have his day in court. What justice is this that you champion?


i'm not saying destroy his reputation through smears. but "day in court"? what the fuck do the courts or the coppers have to do with justice?


----------



## ethel (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:


> It's just good to see urban being put to good use. When this forum is on form, it's as good as it gets IMO.


 
my first thread in a couple of years. i should probably go back to posting more...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

Dp v v v v v v v v v


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:
			
		

> i'm not saying destroy his reputation through smears. but "day in court"? what the fuck do the courts or the coppers have to do with justice?



I suppose if someone nicked your nice car you wouldn't bother reporting it to the cops, even if that meant invalidating your insurance? Lol


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

Basically the complainants feel the landlord's response to their indiscretion was disproportionate to the alleged (although admitted) crime. Yet completely missing the irony of how disproportionate their response now is. Although, if I was in their shoes, I'd probably just want it all to go away right now. Sobering up and some apologies would have been so much simpler than this crapstorm. Made a good thread though. But we argue for fun, they might not, dunno. They've gone awfully quiet though.


----------



## free spirit (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Perhaps we should allow the guy's reputation to be destroyed through smears then?
> 
> I'm no fan of the law. But at least people are assumed innocent until proven guilty down that path and he can have his day in court. What justice is this that you champion?


if someone got nicked in these circumstances that'd be their reputation fucked. Nobody would even know if they then got acquitted a few months down the line.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

free spirit said:
			
		

> if someone got nicked in these circumstances that'd be their reputation fucked. Nobody would even know if they then got acquitted a few months down the line.



The police turned up. He wasn't nicked. They're trashing his reputation anyway. Have you read the thread or just Chipping in on the last page? And as if people 'wouldn' t know' the outcome. The whole reason why it is being discussed is because it's the Windmill which has links to this site. Christ, I've even been there myself because of here albeit a few years ago now.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I suppose if someone nicked your nice car you wouldn't bother reporting it to the cops, even if that meant invalidating your insurance? Lol


not even slightly similar. i would call the police to get the crime number required by the insurance to replace the car, not to get justice. what next, "how can you call yourself a socialist if you wear shoes"?


----------



## free spirit (Jul 6, 2012)

Kids these days wouldn't have lasted long in the 90s.

try having 50 riot police busting your party in full riot gear, locking up 5 and attacking others with dogs, or being smacked several times by a bouncer for handing out flyers outside their club, or a million and one other examples that'd make this seem like the girl here was treated with kid gloves.

if you're going to go waving a vodka bottle around on stage, offering it to the audience, then telling the manager to fuck off to his face, and then leg it round the club when he tries to throw you out, then you're going to get ejected with a fair degree of force whatever sex / race you are. It's just one of the hazards of being a pissed up struggling musician, and personally I'd have woken up in the morning cringing from the embarrassment of having made such a complete tit of myself, and glad that I'd not actually been taken out the back for a proper kicking instead.

I must have seen this sort of shit a thousand times when flyering / running the nights, and 99% of the time the bouncers were pretty justified in their actions, even if they possibly could have handled things better in a perfect world.

You'll often get other drunk gig goers who've only seen a small part of the whole thing then kicking off with the bouncers / owner and sometimes trying to get the police involved as seems to be the case here, not understanding that the police and bouncers / club owners deal with similar situations together regularly so the only action the police might take would be to cart the drunk complainer off to the cells for the night, unless the bouncers had actually beaten someone to a bloody pulp.

This is how nightlife works. Don't like it, then either don't go out, or don't act like a twat and disrespect the venue manager in his venue. If you're going to act like a twat regularly then expect to take some knocks along the way, and spend some night in police cells for good measure if you don't walk away.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 6, 2012)

that kid shoulda bought a ticket, he deserved to get chucked off the train.


----------



## free spirit (Jul 6, 2012)

actually thinking about it, it wasn't just in the 90s -  last year I found myself outside a club with my arms being held by one bouncer while another used my face as a punch bag.

I say found myself, because I was twatted and tbh couldn't really remember what I might have done or said to provoke them, although apparently my original crime was turning the smoke machine off in the DJ booth.

personally I reckon that was a bit out of order, but filed it in the 'shit happens when drunk' file and left it at that... I also took that as a bit of a harsh lesson on why I shouldn't get myself into such states in public, and a reminder not to be a mouthy twat to bouncers I don't know.


----------



## free spirit (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> The police turned up. He wasn't nicked. They're trashing his reputation anyway. Have you read the thread or just Chipping in on the last page? And as if people 'wouldn' t know' the outcome. The whole reason why it is being discussed is because it's the Windmill which has links to this site. Christ, I've even been there myself because of here albeit a few years ago now.


I thought you were making the point that he'd somehow be better off if the police did arrest him as he'd then have the opportunity to prove himself innocent.

If you weren't making that point, then I apologise for thinking you were, and please ignore my response.

If you were, then your point is wrong for the reasons stated. Everyone in the scene would know about him being arrested, as this would be gossip that would spread like wildfire, but only a small percentage of those people would then be aware at a later point if he'd been acquitted as this wouldn't attract anything like the attention of the initial arrest. Unless he owned the venue, he'd also quite likely be suspended pending the results of the police action, which would also be picked up on as an indication of his guilt.


----------



## SW9 (Jul 6, 2012)

This shit is really pissing me off. I have taken my own booze into places many times. Normally got away with it but sometimes have been caught and have had repercussions e.g. barrings or the occasional punch for acting like a prick. Fucking deal with it Nadia, u started this shit by brazenly drinking vodka on stage and now your complaining.
Windmill is one the best venues in London and after putting nights on, playing gigs and drinking heavily there I have never seen anything but friendliness and good people.
Starting an anti Windmill campaign???
Lame


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

Crispy said:
			
		

> This thread is as good as it gets?
> Somebody shoot me now.


You don't think so?

Nasty campaign against a local bar starts up on Twitter and collectively the urban community (and newcomers) provide context and a more balanced view which results in a much fairer viewpoint being presented. 

I'd say that's something to be proud of.


----------



## SW9 (Jul 6, 2012)

And on that bombshell!!!!


----------



## Kanda (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:


> You don't think so?
> 
> Nasty campaign against a local bar starts up on Twitter and collectively the urban community (and newcomers) provide context and a more balanced view which results in a much fairer viewpoint being presented.
> 
> I'd say that's something to be proud of.



Yes. It's cool. Unlike the Brickbox/Angel thread...


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 6, 2012)

If the Tuts camp don't like this thread, they're really not going to like the response to Tim's statement on Facebook, which is post after post of musicians, promoters and punters queuing up to say that they love the Windmill and think the band are full of shit. This thread is really balanced by comparison.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Kanda said:
			
		

> Yes. It's cool. Unlike the Brickbox/Angel thread...



The Tuts are playing at BrickBox this weekend. You fancy going? Won't be cheap mind.


----------



## Dan U (Jul 6, 2012)

RubyToogood said:


> If the Tuts camp don't like this thread, they're really not going to like the response to Tim's statement on Facebook, which is post after post of musicians, promoters and punters queuing up to say that they love the Windmill and think the band are full of shit. This thread is really balanced by comparison.


 
where is that then? what facebook page?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Dan U said:
			
		

> where is that then? what facebook page?



The Windmills


----------



## Dan U (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> The Windmills


 
oh right, couldn't find one.

eta - was my bad, had put in THE by mistake


----------



## Winot (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> The Tuts are playing at BrickBox this weekend. You fancy going? Won't be cheap mind.



Will there be food?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Winot said:
			
		

> Will there be food?



Only African fruit carved into the shape of pygmy hermaphrodites sadly.


----------



## Dan U (Jul 6, 2012)

Winot said:


> Will there be food?


 
racist food.

that facebook stuff is pretty mixed, the chap who works behind the bar has an interesting take. Funnily enough someone called Nadia has been linking posts but comments come there none.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 6, 2012)

RubyToogood said:


> If the Tuts camp don't like this thread, they're really not going to like the response to Tim's statement on Facebook, which is post after post of musicians, promoters and punters queuing up to say that they love the Windmill and think the band are full of shit. This thread is really balanced by comparison.


 
But that's only beause they're all terrible sexists who haven't watched enough old Jodie Foster films.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:


> i like them as well. i'm a shit revolutionary.


 
I've not yet seen a Jag model that didn't look elegant. Rollers, on the other hand, have spent the last 30-40 years looking like saloons on steroids.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 6, 2012)

The Windmill facebook page seems to be getting lots of support; with lots of comments about the tuts behaving badly on the night (well I say the tuts, it seems it's just the singer).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> But that's only beause they're all terrible sexists who haven't watched enough old Jodie Foster films.


 
TBF, they're probably lucky the sisterhood is into solidarity, or I reckon they'd be getting more of a pasting from feminists for trying to make this a gender issue rather than an "idiot with a sense of entitlement acting like an idiot" issue.


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 6, 2012)

SW9 said:


> This shit is really pissing me off. I have taken my own booze into places many times. Normally got away with it but sometimes have been caught and have had repercussions e.g. barrings or the occasional punch for acting like a prick. Fucking deal with it Nadia, u started this shit by brazenly drinking vodka on stage and now your complaining.
> Windmill is one the best venues in London and after putting nights on, playing gigs and drinking heavily there I have never seen anything but friendliness and good people.
> Starting an anti Windmill campaign???
> Lame


 
Ha ha. That reminds me of the time I caught you with EIGHT Stellas and took them off you and said you could collect them at the end of the night. You forgot, so after a week or so I gave them to a skint touring band.
They appreciated it


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> The Windmill facebook page seems to be getting lots of support; with lots of comments about the tuts behaving badly on the night (well I say the tuts, it seems it's just the singer).


When I first read this on Twitter, it looked really, really awful for the venue.

People were uncritically re-tweeting the alleged reports of racism and violence, boycotts were being called for, bands were cancelling and I started to worry about the future viability of the venue. 

Thank fuck the full story has come out.


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, they're probably lucky the sisterhood is into solidarity, or I reckon they'd be getting more of a pasting from feminists for trying to make this a gender issue rather than an "idiot with a sense of entitlement acting like an idiot" issue.



I resisted properly piling in, not from sisterhood solidarity reasons - just that the thread might have taken off away from main issues onto the side "playing the sexism card" track.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:


> When I first read this on Twitter, it looked really, really awful for the venue.
> 
> People were uncritically re-tweeting the alleged reports of racism and violence, boycotts were being called for, bands were cancelling and I started to worry about the future viability of the venue.
> 
> Thank fuck the full story has come out.


 
The one sided account is still being circulated on FB though...


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

*I've just added 'pub' to the title as it's been reported that some folks were assuming that it had all kicked off inside the_ actual windmill!_

Sails of hate!


----------



## paolo (Jul 6, 2012)

Maybe I'm mistaken, but looks like The Tut's have deleted their own FB posts, on their own FB page, about how violent they / their gigs are.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> The one sided account is still being circulated on FB though...


Type in 'Windmill racism' and this thread is right at the top, so hopefully any bands looking into this will quickly find this discussion.

Someone's already written the book, mind.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:
			
		

> Maybe I'm mistaken, but looks like The Tut's have deleted their own FB posts, on their own FB page, about how violent they / their gigs are.



Really?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> Maybe I'm mistaken, but looks like The Tut's have deleted their own FB posts, on their own FB page, about how violent they / their gigs are.


 
Yup I noticed that too, a post about how trouble seems to always follow them round, says it all really...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> I resisted properly piling in, not from sisterhood solidarity reasons - just that the thread might have taken off away from main issues onto the side "playing the sexism card" track.


 
Fair enough, although I don't think it's a sidetrack, but rather one of the main issues. After all, the war-cries put up by some of the partisans for The Tuts were pretty open about linking Seamus's actions to sexism on his part.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

They seem quite pleased with themselves that all this has generated extra hits on their youtube video.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

This has turned into a PR disaster for The Tuts. Who's going to book them now?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

I've read the first few pages and then skipped to here. Have the racist comments allegations been proved to be untrue then?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:
			
		

> I've read the first few pages and then skipped to here. Have the racist comments allegations been proved to be untrue then?



Tenuous but not untrue.


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Fair enough, although I don't think it's a sidetrack, but rather one of the main issues. After all, the war-cries put up by some of the partisans for The Tuts were pretty open about linking Seamus's actions to sexism on his part.



Ah, I thought that the sexist bleats only properly started once Drew posted the imperious tweets of three rads.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

Comment from one of their pals on their FB page:


> can you please confirm for me that bringing in your own alcohol in to a pub will effect in verbal, physical and racial assault? Coz I will think twice next time my friends band playing a show and im short for cash but still wanna see the band and try to smuggle in few street beers. If in this case I would be ejected from the venue with a punch in my face then I would stick to a glass of tap water served by the friendly landlord...


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> Maybe I'm mistaken, but looks like The Tut's have deleted their own FB posts, on their own FB page, about how violent they / their gigs are.


You're not mistaken. Wish I'd taken screenshots now.



eta. it's possible you and I imagined those posts, but I don't think so. I'm somewhat pissed off that some young women think feminism entails getting boozed up and violent like some sort of caricature of maleness


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> They seem quite pleased with themselves that all this has generated extra hits on their youtube video.



I listened to one track, from their site I think.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Tenuous but not untrue.


 
Does "not untrue" mean "true"?

Or does it mean unknown?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:
			
		

> You're not mistaken. Wish I'd taken screenshots now.



That would have been intrusive, sexist and creepy you monster


----------



## paolo (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> They seem quite pleased with themselves that all this has generated extra hits on their youtube video.


 
Can you see where the Tuts self-proclaimed "we're violent" stuff has gone?

The Tuts are claiming they've not deleted their posts about being violent, but I can't find them anywhere now.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:
			
		

> Does "not untrue" mean "true"?
> 
> Or does it mean unknown?



Just go with 'vague' and nobody able to confirm apart from the person chucked out. 

Pickman's had a reasonable point in that anyone willing to be openly racist (in front of the police who did nothing about it) is unlikely to have been running a busy Brixton pub for this long.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> Can you see where the Tuts self-proclaimed "we're violent" stuff has gone?
> 
> The Tuts are claiming they've not deleted their posts about being violent, but I can't find them anywhere now.


Funny, that. I can't find them anymore either.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> Ah, I thought that the sexist bleats only properly started once Drew posted the imperious tweets of three rads.


 
Nah, a couple of the fan club who signed up here also went straight into the "sexist" bit on their tweets before coming here, and the drew incident was a sidebar. Apparently, he was sexist for posting up someone's tweet, even though twitter is public (unless you set it otherwise).


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> Can you see where the Tuts self-proclaimed "we're violent" stuff has gone?
> 
> The Tuts are claiming they've not deleted their posts about being violent, but I can't find them anywhere now.


 Don't remember that one, but I definitely saw "why does trouble always follow The Tuts around?" yesterday, and it's gone now. There was one from a few months ago about a crazy gig involving an audience member *biting* one of them (which they seemed quite pleased about) and another one "flashing her gash" (sic).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> You're not mistaken. Wish I'd taken screenshots now.
> 
> 
> 
> eta. it's possible you and I imagined those posts, but I don't think so. I'm somewhat pissed off that some young women think feminism entails getting boozed up and violent like some sort of caricature of maleness


 
And then, when adverse consequences rear their ugly head, blaming it only on sexism, rather than factoring in stupidity as well.


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nah, a couple of the fan club who signed up here also went straight into the "sexist" bit on their tweets before coming here, and the drew incident was a sidebar. Apparently, he was sexist for posting up someone's tweet, even though twitter is public (unless you set it otherwise).



I didn't look at twitter before they started posting here


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:


> Don't remember that one, but I definitely saw "why does trouble always follow The Tuts around?" yesterday, and it's gone now. There was one from a few months ago about a crazy gig involving an audience member *biting* one of them (which they seemed quite pleased about) and another one "flashing her gash" (sic).


 
So basically they're attempting to re-write history?
Hilarious! Not a sensible thing to try on the net, either. There's always some weirdo who'll have screen-shotted the offending material, or otherwise captured it.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

I am actually feeling a bit sorry for the band now. They're young and clearly let their rage get the better of them, but I think they need to apologise for the way they did their best to trash the reputation of one of London's best loved music venues over an incident which they were (at the _very_ least) partly responsible for.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> I didn't look at twitter before they started posting here


 
Me neither. I'm just going by what got uncovered during the thread. I don't do twitter, mostly 'cos I have far too many delusions of grandeur to condense my thoughts to a mere 140 characters!


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> I listened to one track, from their site I think.


Me too. The one that sounded like Lily Allen singing old Shop Assistants songs.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:


> I am actually feeling a bit sorry for the band now. They're young and clearly let their rage get the better of them, but I think they need to apologise for the way they did their best to trash the reputation of one of London's best loved music venues.


 
Conversely, they may have just thought "fuck, we can ride this one for publicity! whey-hey!!!".
If that was the case, it's certainly biting them on the arse now.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, they're probably lucky the sisterhood is into solidarity, or I reckon they'd be getting more of a pasting from feminists for trying to make this a gender issue rather than an "idiot with a sense of entitlement acting like an idiot" issue.


 
Yeah. Also that the reference to the film was so incredibly stupid that it obscures the fact that what they were trying to do was compare rape to someone getting chucked out of a pub, on supposedly 'feminist' grounds.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> I didn't look at twitter before they started posting here


I heard about this before this thread and looked at twitter, and the top tweets were from simsimsim in her twitter identity telling everyone to search for Brixton Windmill, but she seemed to be really taken aback that not just Tutettes could see her tweets.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Me too. The one that sounded like Lily Allen singing old Shop Assistants songs.


 
Lilly Allen singing = okay.
Shop Assistants songs = okay.

Sounding like Lily Allen singing Shop Assistants covers = qualification for slow execution.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> (quoting the Tuts Facebook page)
> 
> "Nadia laid down some truths about sexism in the live music scene - and promoters better know we're on to them. e.g. putting on a rising band like the tuts who have 559 fans on facebook, beloved by Kate Nash, thousands of views on their video, putting THEM in a support slot for some boyband with just over 100 facebook fans is fucking telling (no offence to said boyband, you may be very good)"​


Quote of the day!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:


> I am actually feeling a bit sorry for the band now. They're young and clearly let their rage get the better of them, but I think they need to apologise for the way they did their best to trash the reputation of one of London's best loved music venues over an incident which they were (at the _very_ least) partly responsible for.


I'm not in the least sorry for them.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> I am actually feeling a bit sorry for the band now. They're young and clearly let their rage get the better of them, but I think they need to apologise for the way they did their best to trash the reputation of one of London's best loved music venues.



I don't care about them either way. What is annoying is the spin being put on it by a lot of people on Twitter etc. Like everyone was there and is horrified at the venue/landlord.

Have seen journalists and similar just retweeting links with RACISM / WINDMILL / ASSUALT in the tweet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I heard about this before this thread and looked at twitter, and the top tweets were from simsimsim in her twitter identity telling everyone to search for Briton Windmill, but she seemed to be really taken aback that not just Tutettes could see her tweets.


 

Sweet, isn't it, the lack of savvy about how secure your communications are or aren't, that some users have?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> So basically they're attempting to re-write history?
> Hilarious! Not a sensible thing to try on the net, either. There's always some weirdo who'll have screen-shotted the offending material, or otherwise captured it.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> So basically they're attempting to re-write history?
> Hilarious! Not a sensible thing to try on the net, either. There's always some weirdo who'll have screen-shotted the offending material, or otherwise captured it.


You mean _*sexist*_ weirdo, clearly


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Me too. The one that sounded like Lily Allen singing old Shop Assistants songs.



I didn't think the voice was as good as Lily Allen's tbf.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I don't care about them either way. What is annoying is the spin being put on it by a lot of people on Twitter etc. Like everyone was there and is horrified at the venue/landlord.
> 
> Have seen journalists and similar just retweeting links with RACISM / WINDMILL / ASSUALT in the tweet.


Maybe you should tweet them back and tell them to read this thread?


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm going to Tweet this thread all over the fucking shop in fact and let people at least get the full story.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yeah. Also that the reference to the film was so incredibly stupid that it obscures the fact that what they were trying to do was compare rape to someone getting chucked out of a pub, on supposedly 'feminist' grounds.


 
Yeah. I tried to ignore that angle because it was so massively off-piste as to be ridiculous, and just roll with the "you shouldn't judge people based on their reputation" _schtick_.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


>


 
I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote "some weirdo", Drew. Honest!!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yeah. I tried to ignore that angle because it was so massively off-piste


I didn't know that off-piste was a synonym for incredibly stupid.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2012)

'Holroyd-Doveton'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> You mean _*sexist*_ weirdo, clearly


 
I try not to judge unless the sexism is really blatant, rather than so subtle as to be invisible to mere mortals.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> Maybe you should tweet them back and tell them to read this thread?



I did sort of test a reaction:

@MagicTina @WindmillBrixton I would look at the whole story (both sides) first. Then again I was not there. Were you?

Reply:

@MagicTina  @Badgers_Musing What is the other side? That he had a really good reason to attack a girl and call her a "paki"?! @WindmillBrixton


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I didn't know that off-piste was a synonym for incredibly stupid.


 
It's not. I didn't mention the stupidity because I thought it spoke for itself, but you have a point: It's *always* worth highlighting incredible stupidity.


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

ddraig said:


> 'Holroyd-Doveton'



Gap yah innit


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> You mean _*sexist*_ weirdo, clearly


 
I really don't think she has any right to be labelling me as a sexist tbf...


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

ddraig said:


> 'Holroyd-Doveton'


That's not an entirely fair thing to take the piss out of. My kids have a double barreled surname cos me and my partner aren't married. Doesn't mean we're posh!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

ddraig said:


> 'Holroyd-Doveton'


 
D-B surname is no longer necessarily a sign of being a posho, to be fair. It could alternatively mean that her parents combined their surnames when they married, or that they never married but that she took both their surnames.
She looks a bit twatty, though, although that's not necessarily a sign of poshness either.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Blagsta said:
			
		

> That's not an entirely fair thing to take the piss out of. My kids have a double barreled surname cos me and my partner aren't married. Doesn't mean we're posh!



Yes (and sexist)


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2012)

yeah really unfair! naughty me"
maybe the family crest
'patience and perseverance'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I really don't think she has any right to be labelling me as a sexist tbf...


 
Nice catch.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 6, 2012)

Just for balance (!!!) any screen shots of twitter blokes having their say?


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

@ddraig that's not for real, right?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> D-B surname is no longer necessarily a sign of being a posho, to be fair.


I've come across triple-barrelled in definitely not at all posh.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

Cardiff City
"Fire & Passion"


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

omfg it IS


----------



## DJ Squelch (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> Can you see where the Tuts self-proclaimed "we're violent" stuff has gone?
> 
> The Tuts are claiming they've not deleted their posts about being violent, but I can't find them anywhere now.


 
there's still this on their twitter from 30th June


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> @ddraig that's not for real, right?


 
It's real alright. If you google the name, the crest is at the top lefthand corner of the first hit page.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> @ddraig that's not for real, right?


 oh yeah it is, could be another holroyd-doveton i guess 
http://www.holroyd-doveton.com/index.html


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

ddraig said:


> yeah really unfair! naughty me"
> maybe the family crest
> 'patience and perseverance'


That's an entirely different matter then


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2012)

dodgy shape to the wings on that bird


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

i'm not up for making anything more personal than it already is, or going out with flaming torches or owt, but fuck that made me laugh


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 6, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> That's not an entirely fair thing to take the piss out of. My kids have a double barreled surname cos me and my partner aren't married. Doesn't mean we're posh!


It's a stigma I've lived with all my life 

And yet still when I see another double-barrelled surname I think "posh git"


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I've come across triple-barrelled in definitely not at all posh.


 i DO realise that and have come across plenty of non poshos with crazy high faluting names
if myself and current partner out our names together it would poshify me by a few 1000%


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

They're trying to get Kate Nash to re-tweet their version of events now


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:
			
		

> They're trying to get Kate Nash to re-tweet their version of events now



Oh dear.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> dodgy shape to the wings on that bird


 
SEXIST!!!


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> They're trying to get Kate Nash to re-tweet their version of events now


If that's true, then this is the point where I lose all sympathy for them and I can only view their attempts to ruin the reputation of the Windmill as being despicable.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

free spirit said:
			
		

> I thought you were making the point that he'd somehow be better off if the police did arrest him as he'd then have the opportunity to prove himself innocent.
> 
> If you weren't making that point, then I apologise for thinking you were, and please ignore my response.
> 
> If you were, then your point is wrong for the reasons stated. Everyone in the scene would know about him being arrested, as this would be gossip that would spread like wildfire, but only a small percentage of those people would then be aware at a later point if he'd been acquitted as this wouldn't attract anything like the attention of the initial arrest. Unless he owned the venue, he'd also quite likely be suspended pending the results of the police action, which would also be picked up on as an indication of his guilt.



Sorry, but I don't agree with trial by rumour and letting someone have the opportunity to defend themselves (whilst presumption of innocence is in effect) is a far preferable scenario imo. I think it's quite telling that they are refusing to go down that avenue actually.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> They're trying to get Kate Nash to re-tweet their version of events now


 i presume and hope Kate is a bit more sussed and grown up than the Tuts


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Don't worry everyone, it is no longer a problem. The whole thing has been upgraded to 'haha' and 'amazing' by The Tuts themselves  



> @OddBoxRecords @TheTutsBand Smash your set and then get into a fight. That's how to do it! #lads. -- Young Romance (@_YoungRomance)






> @_YoungRomance @OddBoxRecords haha amazing -- The Tuts (@TheTutsBand)


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:
			
		

> not even slightly similar. i would call the police to get the crime number required by the insurance to replace the car, not to get justice. what next, "how can you call yourself a socialist if you wear shoes"?



So the police are no use for justice until you want money for your stolen car? I see.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> SEXIST!!!


Nice wings, shame about the face


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2012)

I was thinking more naziwing than bingo


----------



## ericjarvis (Jul 6, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Me too. The one that sounded like Lily Allen singing old Shop Assistants songs.



I have to admit that I rather like the idea of Lily Allen singing old Shop Assistants songs... whilst totally ratarsed on vodka. Might well be very entertaining. I guess I shall have to check their stuff out.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

I checked their stuff out and, whilst not my sort of thing particularly, it has been produced to a pretty high standard imo(myspace).


----------



## paolo (Jul 6, 2012)

They've banned me from their FB, well I assume that's what's happened ("You don't have permission...")


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

I wish their behaviour was of a high standard. I think they are a very shoddy outfit. I particularly hate the fact that it's apparently OK for the singer to throw punches first, glorify how violent the gigs are, but anything rising out of that behaviour is a sexist outrage.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> They've banned me from their FB, well I assume that's what's happened ("You don't have permission...")


 
Me too, although they made a nice little parting shot about how we've given them the attention they wanted, and that we should go wank ourselves off to 50 Shades of Grey.


----------



## paolo (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Me too, although they made a nice little parting shot about how we've given them the attention they wanted, and that we should go wank ourselves off to 50 Shades of Grey.


 
Can't wait to see them announce their next gig. I mean, noone will forward all this shit to the booker will they? Will we? Will I?


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 6, 2012)

Their "version" of events reads like something Rik out of the Young Ones would write in castigation of Thatcher. I don't for a minute believe a word of it. Having worked with Seamus for several years, the idea he would call someone a "paki" stretches credulity beyond breaking point.

Plus: have looked at the Tuts on youtube. They're shit.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> Can't wait to see them announce their next gig. I mean, noone will forward all this shit to the booker will they? Will we? Will I?


 
heaven forbid...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2012)

So what has been learned from this?

1)      It’s not a good idea to bring your own drink into a pub
2)      It’s not a good idea to be verbally abusive when pulled on it
3)      It’s not a good idea to have words to the effect that “trouble follows you around” on your website
4)      You shouldn’t post stuff on public forums like Twitter and then object to them being posted elsewhere
5)      If a pub landlord or barstaff want to bundle people out of a pub using force, they should be aware of the consequences when doing so
6)      This has been good publicity for The Tuts and The Windmill
7)      This has been bad publicity for The Tuts and The Windmill
8)   Things can get very messy when drink is involved
9)   RaverDrew is a sexist
10) RaverDrew isn't a sexist
11)    Roofdog was not involved in any way whatsoever
12)  Urban75 got lots more visitors

Please feel free to add to list


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I wish their behaviour was of a high standard. I think they are a very shoddy outfit. I particularly hate the fact that it's apparently OK for the singer to throw punches first, glorify how violent the gigs are, but anything rising out of that behaviour is a sexist outrage.



I wonder if their parents are aware that their extra curricular activities involves getting pissed and brawling on a Wednesday night.

/Daily Mail


----------



## nagapie (Jul 6, 2012)

I haven't really had time to read most of the thread so the only thing I can add is that I am really disappointed that people who like Kate Nash go to the Windmill. I've only been there once briefly but thought it was cooler than that. And I've never knowingly heard a Kate Nash song but am assuming she's shit.


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 6, 2012)

editor said:


> I am actually feeling a bit sorry for the band now. They're young and clearly let their rage get the better of them, but I think they need to apologise for the way they did their best to trash the reputation of one of London's best loved music venues over an incident which they were (at the _very_ least) partly responsible for.


 
Likewise. They have obviously put some work in to get a demo made and build up a small following that will come and see them when they're not in their hometown, and it would be a shame if all that got thrown away because no-one would book them any more. Obviously they were upset by what happened and have put forward their view of it. From what's emerged so far, it looks like a dispute between the parties concerned - unfortunately they have tried to make it into a point of principle and drag the whole of the internet into it. As we know from modding this forum, the one thing people having fights love to do is try and involve as many other people as possible, and that's how things escalate. 99 times out of 100 it's better for everyone if that doesn't happen, because nobody wins.

At the moment, no-one else can really see this point of principle, and the venue are clearly ahead on points.



editor said:


> If that's true, then this is the point where I lose all sympathy for them and I can only view their attempts to ruin the reputation of the Windmill as being despicable.


 
Well once you've taken up a position like that it's very hard to back down from it without appearing to lose face. They'd be well advised to stop thinking about their position and start thinking instead about what they actually want to achieve (like not committing career suicide), and how to get there.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 6, 2012)

This sad incident has given alcohol a bad name


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 6, 2012)

Oh yeah, and if they want to start wheeling out big names, the Windmill would probably win that round too.

E2A: this is not meant to be gleeful, just pointing out reality.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> 11) Roofdog was not involved in any way whatsoever


 
I think the role of Roofdog in the incident should be investigated, there may be a hidden canine-centric, speciesist angle that has not been addressed


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 6, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I think the role of Roofdog in the incident should be investigated, there may be a hidden canine-centric, speciesist angle that has not been addressed


Roofdog has been bringing his own bones in to the venue for _years_


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

isvicthere? said:


> Plus: have looked at the Tuts on youtube. They're shit.


I've just heard someone who works in music venues describe their sound as 'drunken karaoke of other peoples songs'. I wouldn't know, but clearly there are others who do.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 6, 2012)

TrevOddBox said:


> You lot want me penniless and homeless by the sounds of it.


Sounds like The Tuts want to make Seamus penniless and homeless!


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I've just heard someone who works in music venues describe their sound as 'drunken karaoke of other peoples songs'. I wouldn't know, but clearly there are others who do.


Specifically The Shop Assistants. Oh and The Flatmates too.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> No, no, no, the sexist part was posting up screenshots of someone's _public_ twitter posts, without their consent.


Full on moronic bullshit.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Full on moronic bullshit.


Looks like something Laurie Penny would write.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:
			
		

> This sad incident has given alcohol a bad name



In all the bluster we forgot the real victim here


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:
			
		

> I think the role of Roofdog in the incident should be investigated, there may be a hidden canine-centric, speciesist angle that has not been addressed



He looks at me funny sometimes. He is clearly speciesist 

(and the t-shirt faded in the wash)


----------



## RubyToogood (Jul 6, 2012)

(Mis-post)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Roofdog has been bringing his own bones in to the venue for _years_


 
I think that's fair enough though as I'm not sure they sell bones behind the bar


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 6, 2012)

RubyToogood said:


> (Mis-post)


 
(((mis-post)))


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

RubyToogood said:


> (Mis-post)



Sexist 

The correct term is Ms post


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I think that's fair enough though as I'm not sure they sell bones behind the bar


Yeah...because they're anti-dog doggists!


----------



## Crispy (Jul 6, 2012)

That's Ms. Post to you

EDIT: Blagsta eats poo


----------



## TopCat (Jul 6, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> That's not an entirely fair thing to take the piss out of. My kids have a double barreled surname cos me and my partner aren't married. Doesn't mean we're posh!


Posh fucker, Even more so now you moved to brum.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah...because they're anti-dog doggists!


 
and you notice how the female dog is stuck out the back.  Out of sight, out of mind, like all good women should be


----------



## TopCat (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and you notice how the female dog is stuck out the back. Out of sight, out of mind, like all good women should be


Until roof dog savagely penetrates her whilst biting her neck.


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I think that's fair enough though as I'm not sure they sell bones behind the bar


 
Roof Dog's a sly one. Seamus thinks there's marrow in the bones but there's vodka jelly shots instead.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Roof Dog's a sly one. Seamus thinks there's marrow in the bones but there's vodka jelly shots instead.


 
That's ok, as long as it's not red wine.  Red wine makes some people go funny in the head


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Anyway, whatever happened I should probably leave this thread now because I stopped going to the Windmill years ago because the Ladies was totally minging and you had to access them via an unlit bit that was full of brooms, mops and buckets. That's probably not the case any more all these years later, and probably not affected in the least by my one-woman boycott of pubs with grim lavs.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 6, 2012)

i totally just read that as 



> _Anyway, whatever happened I should probably leave this thread now because I stopped going to the Windmill years ago because the *ladies were *totally minging and you had to access them via an unlit bit that was full of brooms, mops and buckets._


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

Of course I realise now, thanks to my lesson in feminism from the Tuts, that it was a sexist patriarchal broom.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 6, 2012)

Good job I hit it first.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

That was no broom. It was an emo kid skulking in the shadows.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 6, 2012)

And just when you thought things were quieting down...

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/whens-the-tuts-next-gig.295907


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> So what has been learned from this?
> 
> 1) It’s not a good idea to bring your own drink into a pub
> 2) It’s not a good idea to be verbally abusive when pulled on it
> ...


 
13) Roofdog will piss on people if you pay him a box of Bonio.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 6, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> You're not mistaken. Wish I'd taken screenshots now.
> 
> 
> 
> eta. it's possible you and I imagined those posts, but I don't think so. I'm somewhat pissed off that some young women think feminism entails getting boozed up and violent like some sort of caricature of maleness


ladettes have rights too you know


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> 13) Roofdog will pisson people if you pay him a box of Bonio.



14) It is impossible to make sense on twitter


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

wemakeyousoundb said:
			
		

> ladettes have rights too you know



What about lads?


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> What about lads?


obviously not


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> 14) It is impossible to make sense on twitter


 

15) It is sdometimes impossible to make sense *of* twitter.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 6, 2012)

So what happened?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 6, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> So what happened?


Imagine if FoxyRed played The Windmill...


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 6, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> So what happened?


 
We don't know.  There are a number of different accounts on the thread.  Choose which one you prefer.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 6, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Imagine if FoxyRed played The Windmill...


 
Oh, I hope the fish are alright....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 6, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> We don't know. There are a number of different accounts on the thread. Choose which one you prefer.


 
Miss Scarlett in the Kitchen with the Lead Pipe?


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 6, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Imagine if FoxyRed played The Windmill...


----------



## pogofish (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm actually hoping this band comes to Scotland - I'll ensure a couple of well-connected venue owners get to know about this thread!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

pogofish said:


> I'm actually hoping this band comes to Scotland - I'll ensure a couple of well-connected venue owners get to know about this thread!


----------



## kittyP (Jul 6, 2012)

It seems that the saying about not being able to have your cake and eat it, sums up this whole debacle. 
From there prior tweets/fb about gig violence, to this thread. 

Tut tut


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 6, 2012)

not being able to have your vodka and drink it?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:
			
		

> not being able to have your vodka and drink it?



Or not projecting a reputation and living with it?


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 6, 2012)

nah that'd be the opposite of the meaning.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:
			
		

> nah that'd be the opposite of the meaning.



I see


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 6, 2012)

I blame The Spice Girls.

And Thatcher.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 6, 2012)

She was the first, apparently.


----------



## absurdabsurd (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> i reckon you should stick around, you might like it here





Pickman's model said:


> once she gets used to our ways


 
I have haunted enough forums in my time to recognize a slippery slope when I see one.
Can we all not just go down to the Windmill and have a drink?

I'll bring the vodka, Seamus can bring the punches, and you as onlookers can bring the valiant "feminism". It'll be like the crusades, but better.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)




----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

absurdabsurd said:


> I have haunted enough forums in my time to recognize a slippery slope when I see one.
> Can we all not just go down to the Windmill and have a drink?
> 
> I'll bring the vodka, Seamus can bring the punches, and you as onlookers can bring the valiant "feminism". It'll be like the crusades, but better.



Have you been sitting there all day waiting to make post 666?


----------



## colacubes (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Have you been sitting there all day waiting to make post 666?


 
That's behaviour to be applauded tbf


----------



## paolo (Jul 6, 2012)

I'm sure I could have defused the whole thing in the time honoured tradition:

"Look, we've all had a bit to drink"


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

nipsla said:


> That's behaviour to be applauded tbf



Or a spooky coincidence...


----------



## colacubes (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Or a spooky coincidence...


 
Zombies


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Zombies



Now now, don't be sexist.


----------



## paolo (Jul 6, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Zombies



You've spent too much time in the Albert.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

ladies can be zombies too


----------



## paolo (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> ladies can be zombies too



Definitely too much time in the Albert.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:


> You've spent too much time in the Albert.


 
Yes.  Yes I have


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> ladies can be zombies too



Touché


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

accents


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

paolo said:
			
		

> You've spent too much time in the Albert.



Solyent Green food


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> accents



 Well, a grave situation demands an acute response.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

badum tish


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

The whole thread is illustrative of what happens with a room full of lager umlauts.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

are you here all week by any chance?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

You are as scharfes you look


----------



## absurdabsurd (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Have you been sitting there all day waiting to make post 666?


 
sweaty-palmed internet sports. miss one second, and it's over. but in this case, i get the gold medal. next stop: 999


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 6, 2012)

it's good that we didn't jump to conclusions tilde facts have all been presented


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

And lest all the haters forget: live as a critic, diacritic.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 6, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> And lest all the haters forget: live as a critic, diacritic.


Oh my god >_<


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

this is mostly going *way* over my head


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 6, 2012)

perhaps you can do with a breve introduction


----------



## discokermit (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So the police are no use for justice until you want money for your stolen car? I see.


of course. to drive i am forced to get insurance. to claim, i need a crime number. if my mom could give out crime numbers i would phone her but she can't.
also, the car could be used in the committing of a crime. if it wasn't reported stolen, i would be responsible. same for speeding tickets.

it's not rocket science. you know all this.

i am touched by your faith in the metropolitan police's ability to bring justice to the victims of racism, i really am. i'm not laughing or anything. did enid blyton write your world?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

Let's all take a deep breath and try to remain circumflex about the facts.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

*regrets the whole accents tangent*


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:


> of course. to drive i am forced to get insurance. to claim, i need a crime number. if my mom could give out crime numbers i would phone her but she can't.
> also, the car could be used in the committing of a crime. if it wasn't reported stolen, i would be responsible. same for speeding tickets.
> 
> it's not rocket science. you know all this.
> ...



Well, there's an accusation of assault too. From both sides. I don't think all this smearing business is on at all. Do you believe in guilty before being proven innocent? If you do then fair enough but I must say I don't agree with that stance. If you believe in innocent until proven guilty then by which courts would you consider has the authority to uphold that sentiment that also circumvents the police?

Which is why it's EXACTLY the same as you having to involve the police if your car is stolen if you want to claim insurance. It's because that's how the society we live in operates. Regardless of your personal feelings tiwards the old bill (which chimes with my own, incidentally).


----------



## JimW (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> *regrets the whole accents tangent*


We can keep at it tilde cows come home.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 6, 2012)

radradrad and simsimsim post like cunts...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

What a caron.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> radradrad and simsimsim post like cunts...


strangely silent today tho init


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> What a caron.


 
It's caret erforming


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:


> of course. to drive i am forced to get insurance. to claim, i need a crime number. if my mom could give out crime numbers i would phone her but she can't.
> also, the car could be used in the committing of a crime. if it wasn't reported stolen, i would be responsible. same for speeding tickets.



What if a member of your family got attacked? You'd slate them if they went to the police? Wouldn't you then also be complicit in any further crimes the perpetrator commited whilst remaining at liberty due to your silence; which could be worse than crimes commited in your stolen car?

I suspect you're being completely disingenuous here in order to score some cheap political point.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> It's caret erforming


Háček yourself!


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Háček yourself!


 
I can sense your rough breathing.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

Definitely time to draw a line ampersand


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Definitely time to draw a line ampersand


 
I quite agree, mon breve


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

fucks sake


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 6, 2012)

read my ellipsis - enough of this foolishness!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 6, 2012)

ddraig said:


> strangely silent today tho init


maybe they've sobered up...

certainly from the point of view of them defending their mate etc regardless of the actual situation at the gig I can see why people might get arsey with them I mean wildly accusatory comments to others yet expecting others to reserve judgment, from attacking an entire forum and it's community because they're not instantly believing things until you've got you know the two sides of a story...

seems like pathetic angsty teenagers too me... at least urbans teen crew became anarkids or anon and were rebelling against something wtf are these jokers rebelling against...

What's the bettering these McPunk kids don't ever contribute a damn thing to urban ever again...

BTW kids it's not punk if it's post 77 period... calling your dirge inspired US sell out McRock McPunk is like calling Burgers gourmet food; people look at you funny and then dismiss you as knowing fuck all about fuck all...


Oh and if it really was a racist indicent and you don't report it to the police and get them to provide a crime number/incident number then you're as bad as the racist themselves; tactic support of racism includes ignoring it and brushing it under the carpet... this includes refusing to report it in the first place.

Dick_of_kermit or whatever your useless name is the whole snitch thing has been done to death, we're not 12 any more it's not acceptable to maintain walls when it comes to issues like this anyone who thinks that there shouldn't be legal involvement is a cunt...


----------



## discokermit (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> What if a member of your family got attacked? You'd slate them if they went to the police? Wouldn't you also be complicit in any further crimes they commited whilst remaining at liberty which could be worse than crimes commited in your stolen car?
> 
> I suspect you're being completely disingenuous here in order to score some cheap political point.


who have i slated for calling cops?

i've slated people saying she should call the cops as if that will be any answer. also the people who hinted that as the cops didn't take any action, there is no case to be answered.

i'm not trying to score points, i just find your legitimisation of bourgeois "justice" and smears against the possible victim of a racist attack baffling from someone who knows better. it's not about getting to the bottom of what happened, in fact it deliberately confuses things.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 6, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Dick_of_kermit or whatever your useless name is the whole snitch thing has been done to death, we're not 12 any more it's not acceptable to maintain walls when it comes to issues like this anyone who thinks that there shouldn't be legal involvement is a cunt...


fuck off and mind your own business, you massive cunt.

it's not even the snitch argument, you thick twat.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:


> who have i slated for calling cops?
> 
> i've slated people saying she should call the cops as if that will be any answer. also the people who hinted that as the cops didn't take any action, there is no case to be answered.
> 
> i'm not trying to score points, i just find your legitimisation of bourgeois "justice" and smears against the possible victim of a racist attack baffling from someone who knows better. it's not about getting to the bottom of what happened, in fact it deliberately confuses things.



I'm not 'legitimising' bourgeois justice. But aside of trying to destroy his business through smears, or organising some kind of vigilante mob to descend on the windmill with burning torches, what options are there? I despise racism but i'm not a fan of people attacking someone and completely circumventing the assumption of innocence either. If I was in his shoes and thought I'd done no wrong I'd prefer my day in court to argue my case than to have a permanent stain against me everytime someone googled my name that i had no way of countering. What do you suggest?


----------



## discokermit (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not 'legitimising' bourgeois justice. But aside of trying to destroy his business through smears, or organising some kind of vigilante mob to descend on the windmill with burning torches, what options are there? I despise racism but i'm not a fan of people attacking someone and completely circumventing the assumption of innocence either. If I was in his shoes and thought I'd done no wrong I'd prefer my day in court to argue my case than to have a permanent stain against me everytime someone googled my name that i had no way of countering. What do you suggest?


i don't suggest anything. to be honest, i don't give much of a fuck about the windmill or shitty indypop bands. i'm just bothered by the line of argument from some people who should know better. "he should have his day in court to clear his name"? honestly, it's laughable.

i'm not having a personal dig, you know i love you gorgeous, but that and sneery "ooh that's sexist" gags coming from some people, are baffling.

just think of the people you sound like. especially when you're on a thread read by lots of newcomers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:


> i don't suggest anything. to be honest, i don't give much of a fuck about the windmill or shitty indypop bands. i'm just bothered by the line of argument from some people who should know better. "he should have his day in court to clear his name"? honestly, it's laughable.
> 
> i'm not having a personal dig, you know i love you gorgeous, but that and sneery "ooh that's sexist" gags coming from some people, are baffling.
> 
> just think of the people you sound like. especially when you're on a thread read by lots of newcomers.



Have you actually read the full thread? There's some context you're missing there you see.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 6, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Have you actually read the full thread? There's some context you're missing there you see.


yes i have.

anyway, i've had a bath, brushed me teeth, i'm looking absolutely boss and i'm off to see my girlfriend. i'll be back monday.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:
			
		

> yes i have.
> 
> anyway, i've had a bath, brushed me teeth, i'm looking absolutely boss and i'm off to see my girlfriend. i'll be back monday.



Have fun!


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:


> fuck off and mind your own business, you massive cunt.
> 
> it's not even the snitch argument, you thick twat.


Well, this is going well.


----------



## absurdabsurd (Jul 6, 2012)

discokermit said:


> fuck off and mind your own business, you massive cunt.
> 
> it's not even the snitch argument, you thick twat.


 
Oh how I have missed thee, social internet.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

Got to be 20,000 views before the day is out.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 6, 2012)

It's like war and peace.

Without any of the good bits.


----------



## bluestreak (Jul 6, 2012)

or the literature.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 6, 2012)

Or the Russian accents.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

it's a reasonable introduction to urban for the uninitiated tbf


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

Has anyone disagreed with the urban consensus on this issue (other than newcomer posters)?


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

urban consensus?  you're new, right?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Has anyone disagreed with the urban consensus on this issue (other than newcomer posters)?


 
What's the urban consensus then?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

I'll take that as a "no".


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> What's the urban consensus then?



In bed


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> In bed


 
shitfaced


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What's the urban consensus then?


That the Windmill landlord didn't do any racism. or at least probably didn't.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:
			
		

> That the Windmill landlord didn't do any racism. or at least probably didn't.



Vague, at best


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

Consensus ?

Really just fuck off teuchter, I'm going purely by the account of friends who were there and witnessed the incident. People with no agenda and who I fully trust.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

Just asking. I haven't read the whole thread.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Just asking. I haven't read the whole thread.


 
maybe reading it all would act as a a good introduction. seeing as you're a noob and all


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> maybe reading it all would act as a a good introduction. seeing as you're a noob and all


I am a very busy man, much like a senior government minister who needs to be briefed by his aides on matters of importance.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I am a very busy man, much like a senior government minister who needs to be briefed by his aides on matters of importance.


you mean you're clueless like jim hacker


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 6, 2012)

this isn't a matter of importance. hth


----------



## Badgers (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:
			
		

> needs to be briefed by his aides on matters of importance.



You called?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2012)

Badgers said:


> You called?


and you briefed


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 6, 2012)

In Brief, for those who need briefing, we all went nowhere the long way around.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:


> That the Windmill landlord didn't do any racism. or at least probably didn't.


 
Well I'm sure he'll be very happy to know that *most* people are confident he wouldn't use racist language.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

I was dismayed but not surprised by some the gleeful childish vindictiveness towards the perceived 'enemy' but that was also on the other Tuts thread, and on reflection, this sort of behaviour is rife elsewhere on the boards and in other social media. Still rather dispiriting and shameful nonetheless.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

bluestreak said:


> or the literature.


 
Or door-stop potential.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Has anyone disagreed with the urban consensus on this issue (other than newcomer posters)?


 
Oh dear. Tedious twat alert!


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I was dismayed but not surprised by some the gleeful childish vindictiveness towards the perceived 'enemy' but that was also on the other Tuts thread, and on reflection, this sort of behaviour is rife elsewhere on the boards and in other social media. Still rather dispiriting and shameful nonetheless.


 
What's it like up there on that high horse ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> What's it like up there on that high horse ?


there's further to fall when he tumbles off.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I was dismayed but not surprised by some the gleeful childish vindictiveness towards the perceived 'enemy' but that was also on the other Tuts thread, and on reflection, this sort of behaviour is rife elsewhere on the boards and in other social media. Still rather dispiriting and shameful nonetheless.


why were you "dismayed"? what caused you consternation and distress?

btw, ageism is very unbecoming.


----------



## Chilavert (Jul 6, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What's the urban consensus then?


Women should know their place?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> why were you "dismayed"? what caused you consternation and distress?
> 
> btw, ageism is very unbecoming.


What ageism? 
I already explained why I was 'dismayed'


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> What's it like up there on that high horse ?


I'm on no horse, you're in the gutter.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 6, 2012)

Oh sorry it wasn't a high horse, it was just you being an ass again.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

No, just pissed off.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I was dismayed but not surprised by some the gleeful childish vindictiveness towards the perceived 'enemy' but that was also on the other Tuts thread, and on reflection, this sort of behaviour is rife elsewhere on the boards and in other social media. Still rather dispiriting and shameful nonetheless.


You're having a fucking laugh, aren't you? If you viewed this topic through the medium of Twitter, the Windmill was already found guilty of racism, sexism and assault - no need to discuss the facts - with a spite-laden campaign to get the venue blown off the face off the earth well underway.

I may not agree with all the opinions expressed here, but at least all sides of the story have had a fair airing.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

I agree. I was just pissed off at the other thread really


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 6, 2012)

The windmill is still all to blame on that horrible blogosphere thing; all abit self perpetuated bybthe beautiful 'inclusive indiepop scene'. You might want to pop a précis into post#2 for lurkers who don't want to read 25 pages of urban injokes, jodie foster film reviews, accent puns and diatribes against bourgoise justice.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2012)

snowy_again said:


> ...accent puns...



Touché


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> What ageism?


you don't seem to like young people.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

...


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 6, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't seem to like young people.


 
They are annoying, tbf


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> No, just pissed off.


rather different from being dismayed then


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't seem to like young people.


I don't know what gave you that impression


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I was dismayed but not surprised by some the gleeful childish vindictiveness towards the perceived 'enemy' but that was also on the other Tuts thread, and on reflection, this sort of behaviour is rife elsewhere on the boards and in other social media. Still rather dispiriting and shameful nonetheless.


you ageist fuck.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

Haha zzzzzz


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Haha zzzzzz


i would have thought even you would recognise that using words like childish in a pejorative sense was ageist.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

Righty ho


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Righty ho


i'm dismayed by your refusal to face up to your ageism


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 6, 2012)

Right you are
<nods>


----------



## ericjarvis (Jul 6, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Roofdog has been bringing his own bones in to the venue for _years_



To be fair to Roofdog, I've always taken my own bones to gigs. The alternatives either mean being very floppy indeed, or require a considerable time in surgery as well as a suitable bone donor.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

It's not proper urbans unless the thread concludes with Pickman's model splitting hairs over some trivial exacting pedantic point.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


>


 
Note to the person who has been notching up a feast of reported posts here: reposting material posted *in the public domain* is not harassment.


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 7, 2012)

ddraig said:


> strangely silent today tho init



You won't see any replies from them for a while, this weekend is IndieTracks, and pretty much everyone who's expressed an opinion on this is at the festival. So they might want to engage, but they're not able to. They were both posting on the Windmill's Facebook thread earlier though.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 7, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:


> You won't see any replies from them for a while, this weekend is IndieTracks, and pretty much everyone who's expressed an opinion on this is at the festival. So they might want to engage, but they're not able to. They were both posting on the Windmill's Facebook thread earlier though.


cos they're fucking billie bullshitting cowards who've been found out trying to create faux controversy to promote their tweenage McPunk to the world. 

I do Ms Dale above knows a good libel lawyer... Facebook would count as a published medium...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 7, 2012)

discokermit said:


> fuck off and mind your own business, you massive cunt.
> 
> it's not even the snitch argument, you thick twat.


sorry dick of kermit?  you're aware you're posting on a public bulletin board right... you post we all reply... for someone liek yourself you'd have though by now you had worked out the whole internets and shizzle... 

you're points gash.  shall we leave it at that, richie webbed knob?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> sorry dick of kermit? you're aware you're posting on a public bulletin board right... you post we all reply... for someone liek yourself you'd have though by now you had worked out the whole internets and shizzle...
> 
> you're points gash. shall we leave it at that, richie webbed knob?


It's good that if the Tuts are reading this thread there are some great adult role models for them to learn from. Setting a good example of grown-up discourse.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 7, 2012)

teuchter said:


> It's good that if the Tuts are reading this thread there are some great adult role models for them to learn from. Setting a good example of grown-up discourse.


fuck them.  seriously.  fuck them.  attention seeking ijets...


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 7, 2012)

Mind yer blood pressure garf


----------



## ericjarvis (Jul 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> They are annoying, tbf



And young


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Note to the person who has been notching up a feast of reported posts here: reposting material posted *in the public domain* is not harassment.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 7, 2012)

It's pissed me off mightily especially as stuff in the bin is being reported


----------



## silverfish (Jul 7, 2012)

This thread feels like the bastard lovechild of the Jimmy saville thread and the final scene of every scooby doo episode

No offence to any bastard love children on the forum


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Note to the person who has been notching up a feast of reported posts here: reposting material posted *in the public domain* is not harassment.


 
Isn't it supposed to be old people who can't understand how the internet works?


----------



## Chilavert (Jul 7, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


>


I liked your comments on the Tuts' Facebook page.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 7, 2012)

The comments they didn't censor and delete ?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 7, 2012)

We woulda got away with it too if it wasn't for these pesky indie kids......

Yikes....


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

"Why you tryna act like you were there?"


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

This thread is running out of steam. Hope that festival finishes soon, we're in dire need of a fresh injection of idiocy.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 7, 2012)

Well I would have posted but don't live anywhere near Brixton.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> This thread is running out of steam. Hope that festival finishes soon, we're in dire need of a fresh injection of idiocy.


I compered the main stage of that festival a few years back. It was_ veh_ twee so I can't imagine how the vodka-swillin', street drinkin', fight-startin', racism-accusin', assault-allegin', landlord tauntin' Tuts will go down.

Mind you, they did have steam engines there so I loved it.


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 7, 2012)

I don't think the Tuts are going, just some of the people who were commenting in here (radradrad and simsimsim or whatever their names are). 

Was it a good festival?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Note to the person who has been notching up a feast of reported posts here: reposting material posted *in the public domain* is not harassment.


apols if my posting of the crest has given you any grief!
from twats that don't understand how the net works


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:
			
		

> I don't think the Tuts are going, just some of the people who were commenting in here (radradrad and simsimsim or whatever their names are).
> 
> Was it a good festival?



I thought those posters were band members.


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 7, 2012)

Nah, radradrad was there  as a punter (see his first post here, on p2). simsimsim's twitter account was linked by Editor early on in this thread, but she's not in the band (She's Simona, they're Nadia, Bev and Harriet. Some of the others posting here might be.

And now I'm going to take a good hard look at myself for spending five minutes of my life writing that, about people I don't know and an event I wasn't at.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm on no horse, you're in the gutter.


 
Ah, but Drew's looking up at the stars, while you're looking down on the gutter.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Haha zzzzzz


 
Narcolepsy?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> I compered the main stage of that festival a few years back. It was_ veh_ twee so I can't imagine how the *vodka-swillin', street drinkin', fight-startin', racism-accusin', assault-allegin', landlord tauntin'* Tuts will go down.
> 
> Mind you, they did have steam engines there so I loved it.


 
You missed Anti-Sexismin'


----------



## spitfire (Jul 7, 2012)

Kate Nash has tweeted a link to the tuts blog. I do not endorse, or agree with her comment. I believe there are 2 sides to every story and both should be heard.

*Kate Nash* ‏@*katenash*
Nadia was assaulted, please read"@*TheTutsBand*: My eye witness account of last night at The Brixton Windmillhttp://tmblr.co/Z1Q8kxOksSFu"


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 7, 2012)

FFS !!!


----------



## Callie (Jul 7, 2012)

but she wasnt there! how can she have an opinon on what happened....


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

What a sordid little publicity drive.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Callie said:


> but she wasnt there! how can she have an opinon on what happened....



Has she offered an opinion? She might just be on rumour spreading duties.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 7, 2012)

that is bad


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

Can any one tweet ms nash a link to this thread asking her to consider all sides of the story?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 7, 2012)

done


----------



## Callie (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Has she offered an opinion? She might just be on rumour spreading duties.


well she added her own words (actually they *might* not be hers and they could belong to someone that sorts her twitter/blog for her I guess, either way its under her name)to the tuts post about the incident "Nadia was assaulted"

=======================================================

edited cos I confused a fan blog as being the words of Kate nash! 

http://katenashobviously.tumblr.com/post/26622161124/the-tuts-last-night-at-the-windmill-brixton




			
				fanblog said:
			
		

> I know this isn’t strictly Kate-related, but it’s really important that people hear about this. I’ve just got a message about it and it’s really not on that this kind of bullshit is happening. Please spread the word because this is quite a popular venue and we shouldn’t let this prick get away with being a violent, racist, sexist arsehole to a really talented and innocent woman and her supporters.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm sure she'll find the time to read all 27 pages of it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Callie said:


> well she added her own words (actually they *might* not be hers and they could belong to someone that sorts her twitter/blog for her I guess, either way its under her name)to the tuts post about the incident "Nadia was assaulted"
> 
> also:
> 
> ...



Ok, cheers for that.


----------



## ericjarvis (Jul 7, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ah, but Drew's looking up at the stars, while you're looking down on the gutter.



All of us are lying in the gutter...

...but some of us are looking up women's skirts.


----------



## Callie (Jul 7, 2012)

Its ridiculous, if what happened really was as serious as those involved say it was they should go to the police and deal with it properly. Boycotting the windmill doesnt deal with the issue.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm sure she'll find the time to read all 27 pages of it.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> All of us are lying in the gutter...
> 
> ...but some of us are looking up women's skirts.


 
Ha ha


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2012)

kittyP said:


> Can any one tweet ms nash a link to this thread asking her to consider all sides of the story?


 
I'm not sure many people would bother reading all the way through an 800-post thread though.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

kittyP said:


>



Oh you never know, she might be quite partial to epic bunfights with meandering tangents and derails.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Oh you never know, she might be quite partial to epic bunfights with meandering tangents and derails.


 
He he he


----------



## ddraig (Jul 7, 2012)

where in the thread is the start of the balanced views? and other revelations
points above are well made so would be better to give page links if possible


----------



## Infinite Jest (Jul 7, 2012)

I tweeted her a link to the Windmill's FB post.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 7, 2012)

edit: unhelpful. soz.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 7, 2012)

spitfire said:


> Kate Nash has tweeted a link to the tuts blog.
> 
> *Kate Nash* ‏@*katenash*
> Nadia was assaulted, please read"@*TheTutsBand*: My eye witness account of last night at The Brixton Windmillhttp://tmblr.co/Z1Q8kxOksSFu"


 
Who the fuck is Kate Nash anyway?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Who the fuck is Kate Nash anyway?



Wiki says she had a platinum selling number one album that I've never heard of. Although i don't really keep up with the pop charts nowadays.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Who the fuck is Kate Nash anyway?


Oh good. I thought I was the only person on this thread who has no idea who she is.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

She's a talented singer/songwriter whose output has been a bit variable. Some of her stuff is great.

Great drumming on this song too:


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 7, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Oh good. I thought I was the only person on this thread who has no idea who she is.


 
I had no idea either but was too embarrsassed to say so


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

I know it's really twee but I love this video of her and Billy Bragg doing a mashup (I feel really silly saying mashup  ) of her Foundations and his New England.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:


> I tweeted her a link to the Windmill's FB post.


I tweeted her a link to this thread too.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Billy Bragg, ey? Is she pops answer to Laurie Penny or something?


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 7, 2012)

maybe be best to link to particular posts containing eyewitness accounts. It's a lot to read.

e2a: all of them that is, not just the windmill side.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Billy Bragg, ey? Is she pops answer to Laurie Penny or something?


 
 No not really. I think he just fancies her.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> maybe be best to link to particular posts containing eyewitness accounts.  It's a lot to read.



I agree. 








Be getting on with it then.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 7, 2012)

She's also someone who has managed to become a very successful blogger and tweeter with a devoted army of followers who follow her every step and as such is someone that MUST be made aware or both side before another half a million people hear what she has to say. Although as she has said it  already  ....


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

*meanders off topic somewhate

Kate Nash's "Mouthwash' video has got a fabulously bonkers bit in the middle with roller skating robot things and dry ice. The drummer still sounds ace too.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 7, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> She's also someone who has managed to become a very successful blogger and tweeter with a devoted army of followers who follow her every step and as such is someone that MUST be made aware or both side before another half a million people hear what she has to say. Although as she has said it already ....


 
well, quite


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> She's a talented singer/songwriter whose output has been a bit variable. Some of her stuff is great.
> 
> Great drumming on this song too:




She sounds like Lily bloody Allen too!


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> *meanders off topic somewhate
> 
> Kate Nash's "Mouthwash' video has got a fabulously bonkers bit in the middle with roller skating robot things and dry ice. The drummer still sounds ace too.


 
Looks to me like it was filmed with the Starlight Express cast and back stage.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

This is the problem with twitter. People can put forward their version of events, painting things in whatever light they want and it can spread like wildfire ruining reputations along the way. I know it's clichéd (pardon the use of the accent) but it's like some souped up Salem Witch Hunt medium of the modern era. Allegations made, accepted as gospel by the many, spread far and wide with possible real life implications for those not granted any kind of recourse to defend themselves.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 7, 2012)

Is she the one that did web gigs in her basement?


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Is she the one that did web gigs in her basement?


No.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 7, 2012)

Oh ok. Seen one edgy female singer-songwriter etc...


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Oh ok. Seen one edgy female singer-songwriter etc...


I think there's a bit more substance to her than the average Brit-school-esque singer/songwriter, but best leave that discussion for another thread!


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> I tweeted her a link to this thread too.


 
yeah me too.

interesting times.


----------



## Callie (Jul 7, 2012)

Isn't it fairly dodgy ground to be encouraging a boycott of the windmill and saying that so and so has assaulted so and so, especially for someone quite so in the limelight as Kate nash? Could the windmill sue?! Loss of earnings, defamation of character, slander?

Obv. The same applies to the tits but they are far lower profile than kn.


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 7, 2012)

i hope it wouldn't get as far as that. i hope kn (or her publicists) would read the thread.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 7, 2012)

Callie said:


> Isn't it fairly dodgy ground to be encouraging a boycott of the windmill and saying that so and so has assaulted so and so, especially for someone quite so in the limelight as Kate nash? Could the windmill sue?! Loss of earnings, defamation of character, slander?


 
Yes, libel in fact. Depends on whether the people making the accusations have any money. Will presumably also depend on whether they have witnesses for the racism accusation or the police back them up.

That could also be why they removed the statements about violence at gigs from whatever it was they removed it from.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 7, 2012)

Kate Nash is Pickman's Model on Urban and he just wanted to give the cauldron another big stir


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 7, 2012)

Which is why is what super handy that Raverdrew violated those peoples rights by screenshotting what they said before they deleted/amended it. In your face simsimsim


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 7, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Kate Nash is Pickman's Model on Urban and he just wanted to give the cauldron another big stir


Tell him to stop singing like Lily bloody Allen!


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 7, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> Which is why is what super handy that Raverdrew violated those peoples rights by screenshotting what they said before they deleted/amended it. In your face simsimsim


 
This. 

Hi Kate


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 7, 2012)

Pickman in "i am lily allen, srs, lols!" shock


----------



## Badgers (Jul 7, 2012)

Someone in the Albert today said 'the English are imperialist wankers' at the bar. I have let Kate know about it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Someone should also screengrab 'Kate's' view on this also. For posterity. Callie posted the link a couple of pages ago.


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Someone should also screengrab 'Kate's' view on this also. For posterity. Callie posted the link a couple of pages ago.


 
Done that.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 7, 2012)




----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Ouch. Libel heaven.


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 7, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


>


That's a fansite.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 7, 2012)

I can't wait to hear what David Cameron thinks about it


----------



## Badgers (Jul 7, 2012)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I can't wait to hear what David Cameron thinks about it



His people told my people to call your people.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> That's a fansite.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 7, 2012)

This however is her management's email.
arwen@atcmanagement.com


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

What's with this triple name thing? Simsimsim, radradrad, froggyfroggyfroggy, absurdabsurd (bit of laziness there)?


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 7, 2012)

this thread would be an awesome reality tv series


----------



## Badgers (Jul 7, 2012)

twentythreedom said:
			
		

> this thread would be an awesome reality tv series



OU is Nasty Nick


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> This however is her management's email.
> arwen@atcmanagement.com



But are we sure it has been tweeted by kate and not a fan site? I'm well confused now.  anyone?


----------



## harpo (Jul 7, 2012)

She has on her twitter feed, yes


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> But are we sure it has been tweeted by kate and not a fan site? I'm well confused now.  anyone?


 
Yes she tweeted it . What Drew linked to was a fan site with 97 members.


----------



## Winot (Jul 7, 2012)

Has Kate heard about Brickbox?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 7, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Yes she tweeted it . What Drew linked to was a fan site with 97 members.


 
My error, I was confused by Callie's post #803 I thought it was Kate Nash's words






is what she tweeted (The Tuts' tumblr page)


----------



## Callie (Jul 7, 2012)

Lol fansite, I did wonder hence bracketty disclaimer that it might not be her.  My bad, sorry!


----------



## renegadechicken (Jul 7, 2012)

Reading through the Tuts threads and blogs it appears that the only one's who heard the racist abuse were the band members themselves or family of the band with differing surnames, not that i spent to long on facebook etc following links to the alleged eye witnesses only to discover they were family members of the Tuts.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Yes she tweeted it .


 
With that in mind, I don't think she (or her publicist) has done anything wrong (legally speaking) by re-tweeting.

That fansite is full of libelous statements, however.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jul 7, 2012)

Infinite Jest said:


> Nah, radradrad was there as a punter (see his first post here, on p2). simsimsim's twitter account was linked by Editor early on in this thread, but she's not in the band (She's Simona, they're Nadia, Bev and Harriet. Some of the others posting here might be.
> 
> And now I'm going to take a good hard look at myself for spending five minutes of my life writing that, about people I don't know and an event I wasn't at.


 
I feel like I was at the gig....had to listen to there shit music, paid £2.40 for drinks & was then taken outside and given a good kicking after reading this thread....

I got proper bruises from a landlord (i think) last night, but at least I've got the grace to admit I'm a cock rather than spouting off.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> With that in mind, I don't think she (or her publicist) has done anything wrong (legally speaking) by re-tweeting.
> 
> That fansite is full of libelous statements, however.



Libel is such an ugly and expensive word


----------



## wayward bob (Jul 7, 2012)

{mods feel free to delete ]

okay my previous unhelpful comment stands. stupid cunt


----------



## ericjarvis (Jul 7, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Someone in the Albert today said 'the English are imperialist wankers' at the bar. I have let Kate know about it.



Damn right. Can't have bloody colonials start thinking that we English aren't also imperialist wankers when we are sober too.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> With that in mind, I don't think she (or her publicist) has done anything wrong (legally speaking) by re-tweeting.
> 
> That fansite is full of libelous statements, however.



Legally, if you repeat a libellous comment - and that includes retweeting - you are also liable for damages.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Libel is such an ugly and expensive word


 
Almost as ugly as being forced to consider it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Legally, if you repeat a libellous comment - and that includes retweeting - you are also liable for damages.


 
83,000 followers too. Not to be sniffed at.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2012)

the only thing I can conclude from this thread is that if a grumpy irishman who harboured racist feelings was to set up shop in fucking brixton, _brixton_ then he must be some sort of masochist. Either that or the cold light of day encouraged billy bullshit to come out from his hole and speak for the tuts


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Legally, if you repeat a libellous comment - and that includes retweeting - you are also liable for damages.


 
My people will talk to your people on Monday. 

I'm astounded at Kate Nash. We have a very good mutual friend who is mediating. Hope it blows over.

In the meantime, I'm fucking really upset about a lot of this. Much of it seems to be to get traffic to various sites (and yes, this one to)  on a bogus race card.

Hey, we'll tweet about racism and that makes everything alright.

I really fucking despair sometimes.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 7, 2012)

Seen more people wearing Roof Dog t-shirts today than I have ever before.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jul 7, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Seen more people wearing Roof Dog t-shirts today than I have ever before.


 
I feel like I need to be pissed on by Roof Dog in order to be part of the community....


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2012)

alfajobrob said:


> I feel like I need to be pissed on by Roof Dog in order to be part of the community....


that can be arranged, for a price.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 7, 2012)

No, you need to be shat on, with a glass table above you...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2012)

Kanda said:


> No, you need to be shat on, with a glass table above you...


the glass table traditionally optional


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 7, 2012)

alfajobrob said:


> I feel like I need to be pissed on by Roof Dog in order to be part of the community....


 
Only a few special people have the privilege of being pissed on, the rest are dribbled on


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Only a few special people have the privilege of being pissed on, the rest are dribbled on


 
Just close your eyes, get dribbled on, and imagine that it's the final remnants of an almighty piss that you managed to be a part of.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 7, 2012)

I can't find the photo of roof dog licking my face


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

I just popped over to their blog - evidence hunting - and I ended up feeling a bit sorry for them and a bit guilty about it all. I think the best possible outcome is for the Windmill to be able to carry on what they're doing and the Tuts to be able to as well; with a question mark hanging over both sides regarding future conduct which would exonerate the other party.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 8, 2012)

What was it that made you feel sorry for them?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 8, 2012)

Nah, quite frankly fuck em.

They've played the racism and sexism card with no evidence whatsoever (and plenty to the contrary) to try and completely destroy reputations.

It really doesn't get any lower.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Nah, quite frankly fuck em.
> 
> They've played the racism and sexism card with no evidence whatsoever (and plenty to the contrary) to try and completely destroy reputations.
> 
> It really doesn't get any lower.


are you sure? give them a day or two to see whether they can't descend further.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> are you sure? give them a day or two to see whether they can't descend further.



I heard they killed jesus


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I heard they killed jesus


yeh, that was that judas nadia, who got thirty shots of vodka for it


----------



## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I heard they killed jesus


 
"Anti-semitic!!!!"


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2012)

kittyP said:


> "Anti-semitic!!!!"


yes, contrary to early reports, jesus was a jew


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> What was it that made you feel sorry for them?


 
Just the fact that they seem quite young and the full force of the urban shitstorm is pretty intense. Not saying that what they are doing is right, but neither can we be 100% sure that their allegations (regarding racism) is false. And I'd hate to think they were disregarded just because the venue is great and people know the guy. It's like that whole thing with Londons_calling recently that I made a massive noise about. Everyone who knows him vouched that he isn't a racist. And he almost definitely isn't. But his comment is there in black and white for all to see. People say things they wouldn't normally say when they're angry.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 8, 2012)

I really don't think they realise or care that the damage has already been done, and that they're fucking with people's livelihood's.

Their little music scene will be the ones who suffer most if they're allowed to get away with such malicious, baseless accusations.

They don't know how lucky they are to have venues such as The Windmill to play at.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I really don't think they realise or care that the damage has already been done, and that they're fucking with people's livelihood's.
> 
> Their little music scene will be the ones who suffer most if they're allowed to get away with such malicious, baseless accusations.
> 
> They don't know how lucky they are to have venues such as The Windmill to play at.


i don't think they'll be playing at the windmill for some time to come. and i wouldn't be surprised if they found other venues welcoming them with less than open arms.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Just the fact that they seem quite young and the full force of the urban shitstorm is pretty intense. Not saying that that what they are doing is right, but neither can we be 100% sure that their allegations (regarding racism) is false. And I'd hate to think they were disregarded just because the venue is great and people know the guy. It's like that whole thing with Londons_calling recently that I made a massive noise about. Everyone who knows him vouched that he isn't a racist. And he almost definitely isn't. But his comment is there in black and white for all to see. People say things they wouldn't normally say when they're angry.


 
I think this is a very fair post. 
I don't feel sorry for them as they should not be acting the way they have, even if the allegations were true. 
But what you have said is fair.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Just the fact that they seem quite young and the full force of the urban shitstorm is pretty intense. Not saying that that what they are doing is right, but neither can we be 100% sure that their allegations (regarding racism) is false. And I'd hate to think they were disregarded just because the venue is great and people know the guy. It's like that whole thing with Londons_calling recently that I made a massive noise about. Everyone who knows him vouched that he isn't a racist. And he almost definitely isn't. But his comment is there in black and white for all to see. People say things they wouldn't normally say when they're angry.


True. Decent people apologise once they calm down too


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Just the fact that they seem quite young and the full force of the urban shitstorm is pretty intense. Not saying that that what they are doing is right, but neither can we be 100% sure that their allegations (regarding racism) is false. And I'd hate to think they were disregarded just because the venue is great and people know the guy. It's like that whole thing with Londons_calling recently that I made a massive noise about. Everyone who knows him vouched that he isn't a racist. And he almost definitely isn't. But his comment is there in black and white for all to see. People say things they wouldn't normally say when they're angry.


 
What's good enough for me is that not a single person in a busy pub (outside of their circle jerk of groupies) heard Seamus say what they accuse him of.

I don't buy for one minute that he would have been allowed to say something like that in front of a Police officer in such a situation and get away with it.

The fact they've chosen not to pursue it through legal routes, and instead just go around libelling people speaks VOLUMES.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Blagsta said:
			
		

> True. Decent people apologise once they calm down too



They said 'haha amazing' once they had calmed down.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I really don't think they realise or care that the damage has already been done, and that they're fucking with people's livelihood's.
> 
> Their little music scene will be the ones who suffer most if they're allowed to get away with such malicious, baseless accusations.
> 
> They don't know how lucky they are to have venues such as The Windmill to play at.


 
But if we're wrong, and we might be, how cuntish does all this make us? There's examples everywhere of people shrugging off racism and the accuser being the one dragged through the mud.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> True. Decent people apologise once they calm down too


 
Fair point.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I don't buy for one minute that he would have been allowed to say something like that in front of a Police officer in such a situation and get away with it.


 
'Paki' is fairly common language outside of left wing circles though. Even more so outside of London. If you say it in my home town nobody would raise an eyebrow. Quite different in Brixton though, yes.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> But if we're wrong, and we might be, how cuntish does all this make us? There's examples everywhere of people shrugging off racism and the accuser being the one dragged through the mud.



Cuntish for wanting both sides of the story? Cuntish for being unsure how to take and being disappointed it happened? 

We are pisstaking here (even with some serious stuff) but I struggle to have sympathy here. She likes a lairy night as long as it suits her, that much can't be denied.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> But if we're wrong, and we might be, how cuntish does all this make us? There's examples everywhere of people shrugging off racism and the accuser being the one dragged through the mud.


 
No-one is shrugging off racism at all, the only person who would be shrugging it off is Nadia and co for not reporting it and instead choosing the cowardly option.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Cuntish for wanting both sides of the story? Cuntish for being unsure how to take and being disappointed it happened?
> 
> We are pisstaking here (even with some serious stuff) but I struggle to have sympathy here. She likes a lairy night as long as it suits her, that much can't be denied.





RaverDrew said:


> No-one is shrugging off racism at all, the only person who would be shrugging it off is Nadia and co for not reporting it and instead choosing the cowardly option.


 
Well yeah, I agree with those points too.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> 'Paki' is fairly common language outside of left wing circles though. Even more so outside of London. If you say it in my home town nobody would raise an eyebrow. Quite different in Brixton though, yes.


 
Not many of us are from backwaters like you though


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Police came into another Brixton pub following up a racist allegation last week. They never heard the racist statement but had both parties sat down in different parts of the pub, each with three coppers. They did not hear the racism but took witness statements and stayed for an hour. It was taken seriously regardless of both parties having been drinking...


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Police came into another Brixton pub following up a racist allegation last week. They never heard the racist statement but had both parties sat down in different parts of the pub, each with three coppers. They did not hear the racism but took witness statements and stayed for an hour. It was taken seriously regardless of both parties having been drinking...


 
Yep, and I witnessed a similar incident recently as well. It's just utterly inconceivable that the cops would have just shrugged it off and covered it up. They take matters like this VERY serious round here, and for good reason too.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> She likes a lairy night as long as it suits her, that much can't be denied.


 
Although so do lots of guys. Doesn't make bouncers any less wankerish for their responses though. It's like everyone is condemning her (me too) for her behaviour that could result in the venue being closed. Yet, all those times people have done some charlie or pills in venues, that must be different behaviour than smuggling booze in. I suppose in her case she was blatant about her indiscretions. Perhaps that is the difference.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> But if we're wrong, and we might be, how cuntish does all this make us? There's examples everywhere of people shrugging off racism and the accuser being the one dragged through the mud.


 
Unfortunately racism does frequently get shrugged off. 
I am guessing often due to the victim being too frightened, defeated or lacking the support and coping strategies to pursue an official complaint.  
It does not seem to me that Nadia fits that description.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Not many of us are from backwaters like you though


 
Without us coming here with out skills, you'd still be fetching your water from the Thames.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

kittyP said:


> Unfortunately racism does frequently get shrugged off.
> I am guessing often due to the victim being too frightened, defeated or lacking the support and coping strategies to pursue an official complaint.
> It does not seem to me that Nadia fits that description.


 
I'm just trying to keep the thread going  (off to bed in a min though!, work tomorrow/today  )


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> Although so do lots of guys. Doesn't make bouncers any less wankerish for their responses though. It's like everyone is condemning her (me too) for her behaviour that could result in the venue being closed. Yet, all those times people have done some charlie or pills in venues, that must be different behaviour than smuggling booze in. I suppose in her case she was blatant about her indiscretions. Perhaps that is the difference.



Yup, you are right. But when I got caught doing coke in a venue I said sorry and left. I also told people I was doing coke and got chucked out. I did not give a one sided 'rose tinted' version of bouncer evil doings.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> Although so do lots of guys



Sexist ^


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Sexist ^


 
Well I didn't know if your view of her misbehaving applied to men too (not a dig at you per se, but many men think women should behave more appropriately than they do was my point).


----------



## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Well I didn't know if your view of her misbehaving applied to men too (not a dig at you per se, but many men think women should behave more appropriately then they do was my point).


 
He has currently got me darning his socks and washing up at the same time


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Yup, you are right. But when I got caught doing coke in a venue I said sorry and left. I also told people I was doing coke and got chucked out. I did not give a one sided 'rose tinted' version of bouncer evil doings.


 
Well yeah, can't argue with that. When I've been caught red handed with things I've always made a sharpish exit too. I mean, who wants the police to help argue it out when there's powder on the end of your nose?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

kittyP said:


> He has currently got me darning his socks and washing up at the same time


 
Then I was right.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> Well I didn't know if your view of her misbehaving applied to men too (not a dig at you per se, but many men think women should behave more appropriately then they do was my point).



Having worked in a lot of pubs I would say 90% of people chucked out are men. Also it is very hard (being a chap) to throw a woman out who really does not want to go. 

I care not for what sex people are, or what colour/creed they are. If someone comes back and apologises the next day then it would have had to have been something awful to not forgive and forget. We all get silly on occasion, it is how you deal with it that matters.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> 'Paki' is fairly common language outside of left wing circles though. Even more so outside of London. If you say it in my home town nobody would raise an eyebrow. Quite different in Brixton though, yes.


 sadly I've heard it in a pub round here (sw2) from more than one person on more than one ocassion and they felt  completely justified in using when challenged  Not the only racist things said either


----------



## free spirit (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Without us coming here *with out* skills, you'd still be fetching your water from the Thames.


erm?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Everyone who knows him vouched that he isn't a racist. And he almost definitely isn't. But his comment is there in black and white for all to see. People say things they wouldn't normally say when they're angry.


 
and pissed


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Miss-Shelf said:


> sadly I've heard it in a pub round here (sw2) from more than one person on more than one ocassion and they felt completely justified in using when challenged  Not the only racist things said either


 
ah, but to some people, they're not being racist.  Paki is just short for Pakistani


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Just the fact that they seem quite young and the full force of the urban shitstorm is pretty intense. Not saying that what they are doing is right, but neither can we be 100% sure that their allegations (regarding racism) is false. And I'd hate to think they were disregarded just because the venue is great and people know the guy. It's like that whole thing with Londons_calling recently that I made a massive noise about. Everyone who knows him vouched that he isn't a racist. And he almost definitely isn't. But his comment is there in black and white for all to see. People say things they wouldn't normally say when they're angry.


 
i wouldn't be working there if there was an ounce of truth in there allegations, FACT


----------



## alfajobrob (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> ah, but to some people, they're not being racist. Paki is just short for Pakistani


 
Stop trolling you Minx!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 8, 2012)

So, how long has London_Calling been running the Windmill then?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> ah, but to some people, they're not being racist.  Paki is just short for Pakistani



Translation 'pure' as in 'pure land' yeah?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

alfajobrob said:


> Stop trolling you Minx!


 
I'm stating facts.  Some people see absolutely nothing wrong with the word Paki as it's short for Pakistani - FACT


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

The racism argument may have been done here before btw.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> ah, but to some people, they're not being racist. Paki is just short for Pakistani


 yeah and the people who use it wouldn't say it to the person so they know it's offensive


----------



## alfajobrob (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I'm stating facts. Some people see absolutely nothing wrong with the word Paki as it's short for Pakistani - FACT


 
Sorry


----------



## ska invita (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Without us coming here *with out skills*, you'd still be fetching your water from the Thames.


freudian slip or what!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

alfajobrob said:


> Sorry


 
See post 901


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Miss-Shelf said:


> yeah and the people who use it wouldn't say it to the person so they know it's offensive


 
They may do, if it's friends and considered banter


----------



## gabi (Jul 8, 2012)

Can't be arsed reading 30 odd pages. I'm bored sitting ostracised in a bar in new zealand but not bored enough for 30 pages. Did these dick press charges? Or are they just dicks? They sound like fucking drama queens and tbh a boycott of the windy by their types ain't a prob. Dicks.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> Can't be arsed reading 30 odd pages. I'm bored sitting ostracised in a bar in new zealand but not bored enough for 30 pages. Did these dick press charges? Or are they just dicks? They sound like fucking drama queens and tbh a boycott of the windy by their types ain't a prob. Dicks.


 
Pretty much that.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Having worked in a lot of pubs I would say 90% of people chucked out are men. Also it is very hard (being a chap) to throw a woman out who really does not want to go.
> 
> I care not for what sex people are, or what colour/creed they are. If someone comes back and apologises the next day then it would have had to have been something awful to not forgive and forget. We all get silly on occasion, it is how you deal with it that matters.


 

See in trying to see it from their pov i suspect these girls genuinely feel they've been badly treated, accurate in their version and justified in kicking up a fuss. Doesn't mean they are right, of course.  It's rare for anyone to allocate more blame to themselves than to the other party.  most women have never been in that sort of altercation.  i certainly haven't and would have been left very shaken from the experience however much bravado i might want to put on the next day.   we all get taught that you shouldn't hit women (as far as i'm concerned, you should avoid hitting anyone, but you should be able to defend yourself even if you are a man and your attacker a woman) so they are unlikely to have met that sort of reaction to twattishness before.   The initial exchange hasn't been covered in any detail from either side so i wonder that it was not handled very well from the windmill side or there would be more detail.  And anyone who has read a thread on here has seen for themselves how hard people considered 'decent' find it to back down from their position. 

A few weeks ago i had a status on fb about offering someone out for  a fight on the bus.   it was not a very accurate description of what happened, which was in fact an entirely good natured exchange. But to someone who doesn't know me? What might they think?  People bullshit for lols or other reasons.  that could be evidence that speaks volumes if someone started up a fight with me next week. 

Maybe it would even be worth them all sitting down and resolving this because outside of people who know the windmill and think well of it and those who know and think well of the tuts there are a lot of people who don't know either.  And a hell of a lot of people aren't going to see a 'big man' manhandling a 'slip of a girl' in a very good light. or maybe the guy who manages/booked them who came on here can mediate.

She may have acted like a twat but managers of drinking establishments should be able to handle these sorts of situations better than this seems to have been.  I can only go on the accounts I've read of course. I don't know either of them.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Seems obvious in writing though Quimmy.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Seems obvious in writing though Quimmy.


 
What does?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:
			
		

> What does?



All the stuff. Your post is good, just that it is easier to sit here as we are and be logical. 

They will lose SO much face if they alter their story now I doubt they will. Seems to be a poor show by both parties to a degree and they are 'young and fun' acting up, but the landlord is a violent racist being dragged through the mud.

The pubs version of events is quiet humble with an admission it could have been handled better. Tuts version is one sided drama.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Jul 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> She may have acted like a twat but managers of drinking establishments should be able to handle these sorts of situations better than this seems to have been. I can only go on the accounts I've read of course. I don't know either of them.


 
I thought this too - surely drunk arsehole-y-ness is pretty much the norm for a pub landlord to be handling?


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> All the stuff. Your post is good, just that it is easier to sit here as we are and be logical.
> 
> They will lose SO much face if they alter their story now I doubt they will. Seems to be a poor show by both parties to a degree and they are 'young and fun' acting up, but the landlord is a violent racist being dragged through the mud.
> 
> The pubs version of events is quiet humble with an admission it could have been handled better. Tuts version is one sided drama.


 
for sure.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Miss-Shelf said:
			
		

> I thought this too - surely drunk arsehole-y-ness is pretty much the norm for a pub landlord to be handling?



Difficult situations are difficult. I have had to physically remove women from pubs before and it has been horrible. Been really hurt doing it and it is always worrying how people see you.

If you can point me to the foolproof guide on how to do it I would be grateful.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 8, 2012)

i seem to remember you should get one bouncer either side, stick the fingers of a straight rigid hand into their armpits while holding their arms straight down with your other hands, push up into the armpit so they are on tippy toe and frog march them out.

this according to a billy connelly gig.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> i seem to remember you should get one bouncer either side, stick the fingers of a straight rigid hand into their armpits while holding their arms straight down with your other hands, push up into the armpit so they are on tippy toe and frog march them out.
> 
> this according to a billy connelly gig.


 
try being the bloke grabbing a women in a club or a pub...

more often than not the situation escalates


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Jul 8, 2012)

take your point Badgers
I can take children down no problem but only if they're under 5


----------



## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> i seem to remember you should get one bouncer either side, stick the fingers of a straight rigid hand into their armpits while holding their arms straight down with your other hands, push up into the armpit so they are on tippy toe and frog march them out.
> 
> this according to a billy connelly gig.


 
I am certified to train school staff how to safely restrain children/young adults. 
It is no easy feat even with regularly updated training. 
When I have had to do such techniques out in public, even when being 100% professional and controlled, it looks horrible to other people, the general public. 
So it's conceivable that a man trying his best to get a woman out of his pub could look like he was assaulting her.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

Miss-Shelf said:


> take your point Badgers
> I can take children down no problem but only if they're under 5


 
You bully


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Difficult situations are difficult. I have had to physically remove women from pubs before and it has been horrible. Been really hurt doing it and it is always worrying how people see you.
> 
> If you can point me to the foolproof guide on how to do it I would be grateful.


 
I heard that if you tell them there is a designer shoe sale outside, then they go out.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I heard that if you tell them there is a designer shoe sale outside, then they go out.


 
Pub landlords or children?


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 8, 2012)

i don't think anyone is claiming it's easy. and sometimes there is no right way as the recalcitrant punter is going to be aggressive and out of control, end of, and as badgers said it never looks good when men are having to physically ovepower a reluctant woman.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Perkie has also written a report:

http://perkiethinks.tumblr.com/post/26718746113/recording-brief-explanation-of-what-happend-at-the

Seems pretty close to the incident. No mention of hair pulling or racism, which is odd as she did hear the landlord call her an arsehole and her tell him to fuck off.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Jul 8, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Pub landlords or children?


 only one way to find out


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

teuchter said:
			
		

> I heard that if you tell them there is a designer shoe sale outside, then they go out.



SEXIST


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Perkie has also written a report:
> 
> http://perkiethinks.tumblr.com/post/26718746113/recording-brief-explanation-of-what-happend-at-the
> 
> Seems pretty close to the incident. No mention of hair pulling or racism, which is odd as he/she did hear her tell the landlord call her an arsehole and her telling him to fuck off.


Seems to be some kind of badger propaganda on that page


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:
			
		

> i don't think anyone is claiming it's easy. and sometimes there is no right way as the recalcitrant punter is going to be aggressive and out of control, end of, and as badgers said it never looks good when men are having to physically ovepower a reluctant woman.



I recall one happy time. Early evening and a (white btw) women came in the pub really drunk swigging from a bottle of brandy. I was working alone (sadly no women bar staff or bouncers to help me) and refused to serve her. She sat down with her brandy and started abusing the customers. I went and asked her to leave in a nice but firm way. After some happy debate she hit me in the face with bottle (which luckily did not break) and started kicking at me. I feel bad saying this but I used a single leg takedown to put her on her back, dragged her then locked the door. She threw the brandy bottle through the window. Bless.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

teuchter said:
			
		

> Seems to be some kind of badger propaganda on that page



Eh?

Ah, I see and edited the typo


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I recall one happy time. Early evening and a (white btw) women came in the pub really drunk swigging from a bottle of brandy. I was working alone (sadly no women bar staff or bouncers to help me) and refused to serve her. She sat down with her brandy and started abusing the customers. I went and asked her to leave in a nice but firm way. After some happy debate she hit me in the face with bottle (which luckily did not break) and started kicking at me. I feel bad saying this but I used a single leg takedown to put her on her back and dragged her then locked the door. She threw the brandy bottle through the window. Bless.


 
Aww.  that's a cute story.  I never knew that's how you and kitty met.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I recall one happy time. Early evening and a (white btw) women came in the pub really drunk swigging from a bottle of brandy. I was working alone (sadly no women bar staff or bouncers to help me) and refused to serve her. She sat down with her brandy and started abusing the customers. I went and asked her to leave in a nice but firm way. After some happy debate she hit me in the face with bottle (which luckily did not break) and started kicking at me. I feel bad saying this but I used a single leg takedown to put her on her back and dragged her then locked the door. She threw the brandy bottle through the window. Bless.


 
she sounds delightful.

Srs.  I'm behind you all the way.  women shouldn't get a get out of jail free card when being abusive/aggressive.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Aww. that's a cute story. I never knew that's how you and kitty met.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

ska invita said:
			
		

> freudian slip or what!



Lol


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Perkie has also written a report:
> 
> http://perkiethinks.tumblr.com/post/26718746113/recording-brief-explanation-of-what-happend-at-the
> 
> Seems pretty close to the incident. No mention of hair pulling or racism, which is odd as she did hear the landlord call her an arsehole and her tell him to fuck off.


Well, and witnesses report that Nadia threw the first punches.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 8, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Who the fuck is Kate Nash anyway?


 
A one hit wonder from 2007.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> Can't be arsed reading 30 odd pages. I'm bored sitting ostracised in a bar in new zealand but not bored enough for 30 pages. Did these dick press charges? Or are they just dicks? They sound like fucking drama queens and tbh a boycott of the windy by their types ain't a prob. Dicks.


 
That's it in a nutshell.


----------



## harpo (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Perkie has also written a report:
> 
> http://perkiethinks.tumblr.com/post/26718746113/recording-brief-explanation-of-what-happend-at-the
> 
> Seems pretty close to the incident. No mention of hair pulling or racism, which is odd as she did hear the landlord call her an arsehole and her tell him to fuck off.


 
Can't help laughing at this.  Riot grrrrrl eh?  I don't think so.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jul 8, 2012)

http://perkiethinks.tumblr.com/post/26718746113/recording-brief-explanation-of-what-happend-at-the




			
				Perkie said:
			
		

> The Tuts gig at The Windmill, Brixton where the Landord Seamus called Nadia an arse hole for no apparent reason...


 
I can think of at least one 




			
				Perkie said:
			
		

> and proceeded to attack her because she replied saying ‘fuck off’, which is obviously a reasonable response.


 
*rea·son·a·ble*​_adj._​*1. *Capable of reasoning; rational: _a reasonable person._​*2. *Governed by or being in accordance with reason or sound thinking: _a reasonable solution to the problem._​*3. *Being within the bounds of common sense: _arrive home at a reasonable hour._​*4. *Not excessive or extreme; fair: _reasonable prices._​ 



			
				Perkie said:
			
		

> we later found out it was because The Tuts brought their own alcohol to the gig, which is what bands do


 
Not according to the promoter that night...



TrevOddBox said:


> There was no rider as I prefer to pay the bands decent money than spend it on cheap booze. If I was to provide a rider, I'd have less money to pay the bands. That's the way all of my shows at The Windmill have run previously with no issues.


 
Did she even ask anybody if it was okay first ?




			
				Perkie said:
			
		

> seeing as they’re the ones bringing the people to the gig to then buy drinks from the bar.


 






<waves at simona>


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> Legally, if you repeat a libellous comment - and that includes retweeting - you are also liable for damages.



So that includes screen grabs of libelous statements posted on here?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> So that includes screen grabs of libelous statements posted on here?



Surely it depends on the context to a degree?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:
			
		

> Surely it depends on the context to a degree?



It must. Would be ludicrous if seamus slapped a writ on here after most people have been fairly supportive.


----------



## Callie (Jul 8, 2012)

I dont think that simply retweeting or sharing or reblogging something libellous someone else has said would get you into trouble, however if you then add your words to it then that could be libellous if you are supporting and agreeing with what you have repeated. I think. Who knows, Im probbaly gonna get done by Kate Nash now for saying she had made that fansite blog post  (I have gone back and edited to try and clarify)


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> It must. Would be ludicrous if seamus slapped a writ on here after most people have been fairly supportive.



Also sued his lawyer for printing them out


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Jul 8, 2012)

You can repeat a defamatory statement to report on it in good faith, but it has to be clear that's what you're doing - a newspaper that reprinted a statement without any context and a reply from the injured party would be liable; the same presumably applies to people who retweet without comment.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> But if we're wrong, and we might be, how cuntish does all this make us? There's examples everywhere of people shrugging off racism and the accuser being the one dragged through the mud.


 
What makes me lean away from the version of events given by The Tuts is that supposedly the racist remark was made in sight and earshot of the OB. Now colour me cynical, but I've *never* known the OB round here to pass up an easy weekday nick, and calling someone a Paki in front of a copper, while attempting an assault, seems like it would be one easy fucking nick.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2012)

But, but, but, Kate Nash just tweeted a link to the Tuts' statement, she didn't retweet the statement itself. It's like someone here slapping up a link to somewhere.


----------



## harpo (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> But, but, but, Kate Nash just tweeted a link to the Tuts' statement, she didn't retweet the statement itself. It's like someone here slapping up a link to somewhere.


I'm sure she added something...like..'Nadia gets assaulted'...

eta just checked, she did.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 8, 2012)

kittyP said:


> He has currently got me darning his socks and washing up at the same time


 
(((((wet socks)))))


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So that includes screen grabs of libelous statements posted on here?


By reposting it yourself, you could technically also become liable. 



> Anyone who repeats allegations can also be sued. This is important. Seeing something written somewhere else doesn't mean it is true. Repeating allegations without making sure they are true is a very good way to get yourself knee deep in litigation.
> 
> For example, say you wrote an email to the top 200 managers and governors of the BBC about Mr Dyke never paying his licence. That email is leaked to Magazine X who print it without making sure it is true.
> 
> ...


----------



## spitfire (Jul 8, 2012)

Blimey. I've edited my post, hopefully that should cover it.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 8, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Perkie has also written a report:
> 
> http://perkiethinks.tumblr.com/post/26718746113/recording-brief-explanation-of-what-happend-at-the
> 
> Seems pretty close to the incident. No mention of hair pulling or racism, which is odd as she did hear the landlord call her an arsehole and her tell him to fuck off.


whilst still a bit childish, that is a hundred times more balanced by the sound of it!


----------



## Ol Nick (Jul 8, 2012)

Having read the last 3,234 posts it is pretty clear that this is just the kind of loutish behaviour one expects in SW2, and I do not understand why we are surprised by it.

Bring booze into SW9's "Academy" and you'll taken to the alley round the back to be knee-capped, and that, I have to say, safeguards Britain's standards.


----------



## gabi (Jul 8, 2012)

I agree entirely. SW2 is the wild fucking west. They could learn a bit by coming down the hill.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 9, 2012)

gabi said:


> I agree entirely. SW2 is the wild fucking west. They could learn a bit by coming down the hill.


 
_<feeling nostalgia for my "which is more 'brixton'. sw2 or sw9?" thread>_


----------



## ajdown (Jul 9, 2012)

I suppose at least the band have got themselves plenty of free publicity out of it.

Whether it's good for them or not remains to be seen.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

ajdown said:


> I suppose at least the band have got themselves plenty of free publicity out of it.
> 
> Whether it's good for them or not remains to be seen.


I don't think I'll be the only promoter who will be passing on them now.


----------



## co-op (Jul 9, 2012)

ajdown said:


> I suppose at least the band have got themselves plenty of free publicity out of it.
> 
> Whether it's good for them or not remains to be seen.


 
That's some controversial stuff you've posted there aj.


----------



## ajdown (Jul 9, 2012)

Sorry co-op, it's the best I can manage from here seeing as I wasn't actually at the show.

I mean, obviously, it would be wrong to form a judgment on a situation when you weren't there, then to post it all over Facebook, Twitter etc.

Oh wait...


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 9, 2012)

I just watched that video.

Even though I wasnt at the fairground, I hope that she doesnt think it too sexist of me to think that she is very pretty.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't think I'll be the only promoter who will be passing on them now.


well after such an esteemed promoter as your self passing up on them then that's their career over ... 

(tbf they are still cunts)


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

ajdown said:


> Sorry co-op, it's the best I can manage from here seeing as I wasn't actually at the show.
> 
> I mean, obviously, it would be wrong to form a judgment on a situation when you weren't there, then to post it all over Facebook, Twitter etc.
> 
> Oh wait...


hijack a famous persons name to associate it with your mental ramblings... 

have any of the cunts bothered to come back now they've been shown up as the billie bullshiters they are?  bet they've not...


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2012)

*tweet copy and paste fail.....*


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2012)

Kate has retweeted the windmills link to their side of the story: 

*Kate Nash* ‏@*katenash*
Other side of the story from @*windmillbrixton*

*Windmill Brixton* ‏@*WindmillBrixton*
@*katenash* Thanks for asking for our point of thingshttp://windmillbrixton.tumblr.com/


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

Good for her.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

spitfire said:


> *tweet copy and paste fail.....*


Better than taking a screen grab of the tweet (and Tweeter) and then being accused of being a sexist intimidatory oppressive misogynistic pigdog.

Or something like that.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2012)

I managed it in the end, do I qualify now?


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

spitfire said:


> I managed it in the end, do I qualify now?


It needs a publicly available photo for the stalker/oppressive/sexist stuff to kick in.


----------



## spitfire (Jul 9, 2012)

OK. Will try harder next time.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 9, 2012)

ACE!


----------



## TopCat (Jul 10, 2012)

If you don't believe the Tuts you are a misogynist woman hating scum. I think the same thing applies if you think their "music" is shit and their fans all have bad breath.


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

It's... got... to... make... 30,000 page views...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 10, 2012)

Viewed three times


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

One more post before it hits a 1,000 posts...

Bingo!


----------



## Dan U (Jul 10, 2012)

last in?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 10, 2012)




----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 10, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> have any of the cunts bothered to come back now they've been shown up as the billie bullshiters they are? bet they've not...


No, none of them have been back.


----------



## a bigoted woman (Jul 10, 2012)

probably learned to forgive and forget after a magical weekend at indie tracks.  leaving us curmudgeons still grumbling in this here forum.


----------



## discokermit (Jul 10, 2012)

.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 10, 2012)

Probably


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

a bigoted woman said:


> probably learned to forgive and forget after a magical weekend at indie tracks. leaving us curmudgeons still grumbling in this here forum.


Child-like wonder can be found at Indietracks.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 10, 2012)

I think Belle and Sebastian arranged a helicopter rescue and airlifted all the indie kids out of Urban75.


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I think Belle and Sebastian arranged a helicopter rescue and airlifted all the indie kids out of Urban75.


Straight to an island  where tweeness, hairclips and alice bands run FREE!


----------



## Dan U (Jul 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Straight to an island where tweeness, hairclips and alice bands run FREE!


 
totally unrelated but the island reminded me

https://twitter.com/dubstepisland
"Live tweets from top reality show Dubstep Island where the stars of EDM go and live together on an island for some reason."

its funny for a bit


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 10, 2012)

Kode9 is right about mangos!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Straight to an island where tweeness, hairclips and alice bands run FREE!


 
They're gonna do an awareness raising charity concert 'Love Music, Hate Raverdrewsexistsmanifestocutandpastetwitterlibeldandelionkillers'


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

spitfire said:


> Kate has retweeted the windmills link to their side of the story



And, notably, not a link to here.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 11, 2012)

Afterthought corner: in their little "version" of events they first describe Seamus as "a fiftysomething man", as if his age is in any way relevant to what occurred.

Since they chose to play the "-ism" game, _that's_ an "-ism" innit?


----------



## Rushy (Jul 11, 2012)

isvicthere? said:


> Afterthought corner: in their little "version" of events they first describe Seamus as "a fiftysomething man", as if his age is in any way relevant to what occurred.
> 
> Since they chose to play the "-ism" game, _that's_ an "-ism" innit?


 
Less obviously so than when simsimsimsimsimsism(sim).... called him the racist "old man landlord".
At least, I think it were she.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 11, 2012)

isvicthere? said:


> Afterthought corner: in their little "version" of events they first describe Seamus as "a fiftysomething man", as if his age is in any way relevant to what occurred.
> 
> Since they chose to play the "-ism" game, _that's_ an "-ism" innit?


 
They're making Seamus sound like London_Calling..


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

This thread shows that people throwing around unfounded accusations about things to which there are multiple witnesses are likely to come unstuck fairly quickly.

But unfortunately, some of the earlier posts also show that among regular posters are those willing to err towards brushing aside allegations of racist violence before there is clear evidence either way, and who appear to be motivated in doing so by the esteem in which they hold the person accused. 

There would be more satisfaction in showing up a libelous bulshitter if some people hadn't been so candid about whose story they'd prefer to believe before the story was clear.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> This thread shows that people throwing around unfounded accusations about things to which there are multiple witnesses are likely to come unstuck fairly quickly.
> 
> But unfortunately, some of the earlier posts also show that among regular posters are those willing to err towards brushing aside allegations of racist violence before there is clear evidence either way, and who appear to be motivated in doing so by the esteem in which they hold the person accused.
> 
> There would be more satisfaction in showing up a libelous bulshitter if some people hadn't been so candid about whose story they'd prefer to believe before the story was clear.


name names


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> This thread shows that people throwing around unfounded accusations about things to which there are multiple witnesses are likely to come unstuck fairly quickly.
> 
> But unfortunately, some of the earlier posts also show that among regular posters are those willing to err towards brushing aside allegations of racist violence before there is clear evidence either way, and who appear to be motivated in doing so by the esteem in which they hold the person accused.
> 
> There would be more satisfaction in showing up a libelous bulshitter if some people hadn't been so candid about whose story they'd prefer to believe before the story was clear.



Not really true. The reason why the story both gained prominence here and support was garnered for Seamus was because of this site and poster's historical links with the Windmill. One poster even works as a promoter and others have put on their own nights there! Lots have socialised there and some clearly still do. I've even been there myself numerously, although not for a while.

These racism allegations are something new. They haven't cropped up before which lends Seamus the benefit of the doubt. The Tuts' facebook and twitter accounts bragged about a number of things including causing trouble at gigs and 'using the sexist card' against all and sundry which was witnessed on this very thread early on if you bothered to read it. For those of us that weren't there we're left with a balance of probabilities.

Which leads us where?


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Well, Brixton Hatter said 'if you feel that strongly about it', which is a pretty shocking down-playing of an alleged racist assault.

Blagsta said that Nadia 'sounds like an arsehole' - which as it turns out is probably true, bit was a pretty fucking interesting to find relevant at that stage.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, Brixton Hatter said 'if you feel that strongly about it', which is a pretty shocking down-playing of an alleged racist assault.
> 
> Blagsta said that Nadia 'sounds like an arsehole' - which as it turns out is probably true, bit was a pretty fucking interesting to find relevant at that stage.


 
I said she sounds like an arsehole due to her taking her booze into the gig and being a twat about it, plus their boasting on their Facebook page about fighting at gigs and wanting to "shank" someone.  What's yer problem?


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Not really true. The reason why the story both gained prominence here and support was garnered for Seamus was because of this site and poster's historical links with the Windmill. One poster even works as a promoter and others have put on their own nights there! Lots have socialised there and some clearly still do. I've even been there myself numerously, although not for a while.
> 
> These racism allegations are something new. They haven't cropped up before which lends Seamus the benefit of the doubt. The Tuts' facebook and twitter accounts bragged about a number of things including causing trouble at gigs and 'using the sexist card' against all and sundry which was witnessed on this very thread early on if you bothered to read it. For those of us that weren't there we're left with a balance of probabilities.
> 
> Which leads us where?



None of that seemed to have been invoked by page 2, when the two contributions I cited above were made. Also, whatever the - perhaps perfectly good - reasons for the line being taken by various people, it still comes across to someone like moe on the outside as 'I know the bloke, always seemed sound, bitch must be crazy'.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I said she sounds like an arsehole due to her taking her booze into the gig and being a twat about it, plus their boasting on their Facebook page about fighting at gigs and wanting to "shank" someone.  What's yer problem?



My point - not my problem - is that if someone has been assaulted (which at that point she perfectly well may have been), then them bringing some illicit booze into a pub is perfectly irrelevant, and you seeming to think otherwise reflects quite badly on you.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> None of that seemed to have been invoked by page 2, when the two contributions I cited above were made. Also, whatever the - perhaps perfectly good - reasons for the line being taken by various people, it still comes across to someone like moe on the outside as 'I know the bloke, always seemed sound, bitch must be crazy'.



But we've moved on from page two a long time ago. Is that as far as you've read?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> This thread is running out of steam. Hope that festival finishes soon, we're in dire need of a fresh injection of idiocy.



.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> My point - not my problem - is that if someone has been assaulted (which at that point she perfectly well may have been), then them bringing some illicit booze into a pub is perfectly irrelevant, and you seeming to think otherwise reflects quite badly on you.


What a crock. You wave your own booze round in a pub, you get thrown out. All this was clear when I posted that comment.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> None of that seemed to have been invoked by page 2, when the two contributions I cited above were made. Also, whatever the - perhaps perfectly good - reasons for the line being taken by various people, it still comes across to someone like moe on the outside as 'I know the bloke, always seemed sound, bitch must be crazy'.


Read the thread again.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> But we've moved on from page two a long time ago. Is that as far as you've read?



Look, as I said in my first post, those who were doubtful of the allegations have been vindicated - I just think it's a shame some people weren't a bit more circumspect with their doubts until they actually knew what happened.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> But we've moved on from page two a long time ago. Is that as far as you've read?



Christ, Kate Nash tweeted it to 80,000 fans but slowjoe has woken up now everyone and has an issue with page two.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Look, as I said in my first post, those who were doubtful of the allegations have been vindicated - I just think it's a shame some people weren't a bit more circumspect with their doubts until they actually knew what happened.


You're being an arsehole now.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> What a crock. You wave your own booze round in a pub, you get thrown out. All this was clear when I posted that comment.



What wasn't clear was whether or not a woman had been assaulted. Under those circumstances, your priorities come across as 'interesting' to say the least.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Look, as I said in my first post, those who were doubtful of the allegations have been vindicated - I just think it's a shame some people weren't a bit more circumspect with their doubts until they actually knew what happened.



Nobody knows what happened. We have two different versions of events and are invited to pluck from the carnage what we believe to be the truth. Nobody can get it right, but certain positions have been adopted prior to this night that lends weight to an understanding of what the truth might actually be.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> What wasn't clear was whether or not a woman had been assaulted. Under those circumstances, your priorities come across as 'interesting' to say the least.



She was ejected from a pub. Like what happens to everyone in a pub when they take the piss, gender irrelevent. She calls it 'assault' because it's easier than admitting she was kicked out for taking the piss. Read beyond page two ffs.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Christ, Kate Nash tweeted it to 80,000 fans but slowjoe has woken up now everyone and has an issue with page two.



Well, my comment was about what I learned from the begining of the thread. That was clear from my comment. If you don't find what happened back then relevant, then don't take it into consideration


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> What wasn't clear was whether or not a woman had been assaulted. Under those circumstances, your priorities come across as 'interesting' to say the least.


Yes it was. It was clear that she had been thrown out of the pub for being an arsehole. Now you're being an arsehole.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> She was ejected from a pub. Like what happens to everyone in a pub when they take the piss, gender irrelevent. She calls it 'assault' because it's easier than admitting she was kicked out for taking the piss. Read beyond page two ffs.



I've read the thread. She was ejected for taking the piss, bang to rights, just as I've already said. That wasn't known at the time of the comments I've mentioned.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, my comment was about what I learned from the begining of the thread. That was clear from my comment. If you don't find what happened back then relevant, then don't take it into consideration


Do you know the pub in question?


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I've read the thread. She was ejected for taking the piss, bang to rights, just as I've already said. That wasn't known at the time of the comments I've mentioned.


Yes it was.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Do you know the pub in question?



Yes, but I'm by no means a regular. Is this relevant?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I've read the thread. She was ejected for taking the piss, bang to rights, just as I've already said. That wasn't known at the time of the comments I've mentioned.



Well name the posters. But they're probably informed by spending a multitude of evenings in the company of a landlord that they have come to understand isn't a racist woman hating arsehole. Jesus wept, this is Urban75. Burying racism and sexism since 1952.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Yes, but I'm by no means a regular. Is this relevant?


Of course its relevant.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Yes it was.



Well it's interesting that you feel this was already established. This didn't seem to be a view anyone else had formed at that time.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well it's interesting that you feel this was already established. This didn't seem to be a view anyone else had formed at that time.



Yes it was. I was right, wasn't I? So why are you flinging shit around?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

Ignoring my posts lol.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Well name the posters. But they're probably informed by spending a multitude of evenings in the company of a landlord that they have come to understand isn't a racist woman hating arsehole. Jesus wept, this is Urban75. Burying racism and sexism since 1952.



I've already named two of them you numpty. As I've also already said, they may have perfectly good reasons for their positions, but those certainly weren't apparant to someone reading who didn't know any of the people in question - and there's just a chance that might actually be the majority.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Ignoring my posts lol.


 
Not my intention! If there's anything you feel I've missed, let me know.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I've already named two of them you numpty. As I've also already said, they may have perfectly good reasons for their positions, but those certainly weren't apparant to someone reading who didn't know any of the people in question - and there's just a chance that might actually be the majority.


If I'd been wrong, then yeah, start with accusations. I called it right though, didn't I?


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> If I'd been wrong, then yeah, start with accusations. I called it right though, didn't I?



Yes indeed you did, as I've been clear from my first post. I think I've been careful to articulate my point from this.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Not my intention! If there's anything you feel I've missed, let me know.


the point


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Yes indeed you did, as I've been clear from my first post. I think I've been careful to articulate my point from this.


You're being a dick. Flinging round baseless accusations of sexism is out of order.You owe me an apology.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I don't think there's loads of people on here disbelieving the story.  I think it's more a case of not judging until they've heard the full story, as Twitter is known for not exactly being the best source of *accurate* information until stories have been backed up somewhere else



This is just after Blagsta called Nadia an arsehole.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> This is just after you've called her an arsehole.


You owe me an apology.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> You owe me an apology.



Oh please do explain!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> This is just after you've called her an arsehole.


 
I don't remember that post.  Are you sure I wasn't calling Seamus an arsehole?


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Oh please do explain!


 
I've explained.  Now you fucking explain your shit slinging.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

So, Minnie didn't think on p.2 that there were loads of people disbelieving the story, she just thought people were waiting for a clear picture to emerge. But as you've just stated unequivocally, you already did disbelieve the story by then. I don't think that reflects at all well on you.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

I've just done a search of my posts on this thread for "arsehole" and there's no results so it doesn't look like I called anyone an arsehole publicly although I might think it privately, or have you been reading my mind?


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I don't remember that post.  Are you sure I wasn't calling Seamus an arsehole?



You weren't calling anyone one - Blagsta was calling Nadia one.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> So, Minnie didn't think on p.2 that there were loads of people disbelieving the story, she just thought people were waiting for a clear picture to emerge. But as you've just stated unequivocally, you already did disbelieve the story by then. I don't think that reflects at all well on you.


 
No, I was looking at both sides of the story and believe me, I certainly would NOT be defending the landlord if he had said it.  I still don't see where I called her an arsehole


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> You weren't calling anyone one - Blagsta was calling Nadia one.


 
Post No. 1051 gives the impression I did.  Maybe you need to amend that particular post


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I've just done a search of my posts on this thread for "arsehole" and there's no results so it doesn't look like I called anyone an arsehole publicly although I might think it privately, or have you been reading my mind?



Minnie, what I'm saying is that on p.2 you, like most people, were saying it was impossible to know at that point who to believe. But Blagsta went ahead and said simply that Nadia sounded like an arsehole, and has said just a few posts ago that it was already clear to him by that point that it was nothing more than someone kicking up shit over being legitimately chucked out. I was quoting you to show that this was by no means the consensus.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

Is slowjoe a sock puppet?


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Is slowjoe a sock puppet?


 
he's very rude, whatever else he is


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Post No. 1051 gives the impression I did.  Maybe you need to amend that particular post



Apologies, now done.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Apologies, now done.


 
You owe me an apology.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> No, I was looking at both sides of the story and believe me, I certainly would NOT be defending the landlord if he had said it.  I still don't see where I called her an arsehole



Sorry, my bad again - most people at that stage were keeping an open mind; in contrast, Blagsta had already made up his mind. Why that should be, only he knows.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Minnie, what I'm saying is that on p.2 you, like most people, were saying it was impossible to know at that point who to believe. But Blagsta went ahead and said simply that Nadia sounded like an arsehole, and has said just a few posts ago that it was already clear to him by that point that it was nothing more than someone kicking up shit over being legitimately chucked out. I was quoting you to show that this was by no means the consensus.


 
Right ok, but because the post is at the top of the page, if someone's not read the previous page, it does give the impression it was me that said it. Not to worry, as I don't give a shit about Nadia or the landlord anyway.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> You owe me an apology.



Why? Because I've called you on the way you dismissed a story of a woman being assaulted when others still felt the case was open?


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Sorry, my bad again - most people at that stage were keeping an open mind; in contrast, Blagsta had already made up his mind. Why that should be, only he knows.


 
You owe me an apology.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Right ok, but because the post is at the top of the page, if someone's not read the previous page, it does give the impression it was me that said it.  Not to worry, as I don't give a shit anyway.



Yep, sorry, I've amended that now.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Why? Because I've called you on the way you dismissed a story of a woman being assaulted when others still felt the case was open?


 
I was right.  You owe me an apology.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I was right.  You owe me an apology.



Well, it was 50/50, others said it was too early to call, and you took a punt - the most obvious reason for the punt you took is misogyny, but it could be something else. But it still doesn't look good.

We might have to leave this that I'm rude, and you're a broken, possibly slightly misogynistic record.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, it was 50/50, others said it was too early to call, and you took a punt - the most obvious reason for the punt you took is misogyny, but it could be something else. But it still doesn't look good.
> 
> We might have to leave this that I'm rude, and you're a broken, possibly slightly misogynistic record.


 
You're bang out of order.  I had reasons for saying what I said and I was right.  Whereas you just want to have a pop.  Fuck off.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

If you'd given your reasons on page 2, you might not have come across as badly as you did. 

I've made my point, and unless you have anything further to add ('you owe me an apology' again, maybe?), I'll leave you to learn from, or remain oblivious to your mistake, as you choose.


----------



## Onket (Jul 11, 2012)

lol


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> ('you owe me an apology' again, maybe?)


 
You're really pushing it now slowjoe


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> If you'd given your reasons on page 2, you might not have come across as badly as you did.
> 
> I've made my point, and unless you have anything further to add ('you owe me an apology' again, maybe?), I'll leave you to learn from, or remain oblivious to your mistake, as you choose.


 
The reasons are there.  Shall I quote them, seeing as you appear to have lost whatever literacy skills you once had, in favour of slinging shit around like a coward?



> apparently the landlord was unhappy with the singer of the Tuts bringing her own alcohol in and drinking it onstage


 


> _hroughout The Tuts set Nadia, from the band, had clearly had a lot to drink, she offered members of the audience a sip of her vodka Smirnoff bottle and,most hilariously, asked one my friends his ethnic origin to which her response was “nice”. At this point nothing happened, the vodka remained on the stage and the band continued their set._


 


> _Whilst our backs were turned Seamus had gone up to Nadia and began shouting at her due to her consuming alcohol which she had not brought at the venue_


 
Now seeing that, plus the comments on The Tuts own Facebook page (which they have subsequently removed) about how trouble follows them around at gigs, how they enjoy fighting at gigs and how they should have "shanked" Seamus, plus knowing The Windmill pub well, I drew a conclusion - which was correct.  

Now you, a week later, fling accusations of me being misogynistic around.



You owe me a big apology.


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2012)

tbf, it was obvious on p2 that she was an arsehole. p1 even.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You're really pushing it now slowjoe



don't see that myself...


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

killer b said:


> tbf, it was obvious on p2 that she was an arsehole. p1 even.



Would the fact of her being an arsehole be in conflict with the possibility of her having been the victim of assault? How would the one affect the other?


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Would the fact of her being an arsehole be in conflict with the possibility of her having been the victim of assault? How would the one affect the other?


 
She wasn't though was she?  It was obvious to anyone with even half a brain that Seamus had thrown her out of the pub for being an arsehole and she thought that constituted an assault.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> She wasn't though was she?  It was obvious to anyone with even half a brain that Seamus had thrown her out of the pub for being an arsehole and she thought that constituted an assault.



Well, that wasn't obvious to Minnie, Editor, and others who were still being careful to keep a balanced view at that point. The more you go on about how obvious it was, the less credit I am able to give you.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, that wasn't obvious to Minnie, Editor, and others who were still being careful to keep a balanced view at that point. The more you go on about how obvious it was, the less credit I am able to give you.


 


> I don't think there's loads of people on here disbelieving the story. I think it's more a case of not judging until they've heard the full story, as Twitter is known for not exactly being the best source of *accurate* information until stories have been backed up somewhere else


 
I said I didn't think there's loads of people disbelieving the story.  That doesn't mean anything


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie, you said 



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I think it's more a case of not judging until they've heard the full story



Which to me implies that you thought it was to early to say whether or not there was anything in the allegation of assault. Obviously I may have misinterpreted...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Minnie, you said
> 
> 
> 
> Which to me implies that you thought it was to early to say whether or not there was anything in the allegation of assault. Obviously I may have misinterpreted...


 
Right, too busy to be dealing with this nonsense.  Have more important things to do.

Please continue


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Right, too busy to be dealing with this nonsense.  Have more important things to do.
> 
> Please continue



Hmm, not quite sure how you're interpreting what I'm saying, when what I'm meaning to say is that I'm in accordance with the line you took. But whatever.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Hmm, not quite sure how you're interpreting what I'm saying, when what I'm meaning to say is that I'm in accordance with the line you took. But whatever.


 
Sorry, misreading/misinterpreting I think


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

The conversation was dead and buried days ago.

Then some goon watches the movie and wants everyone to re-enact the foreplay scene again, especially for him.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 11, 2012)

Apparently he's going to make "an artwork" out of it. What a wanker.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> The conversation was dead and buried days ago.



Well, before I came along, you'd last posted on this thread ~12 hours previously...


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Apparently he's going to make "an artwork" out of it. What a wanker.



'A Blagsta Taxonomy'

Alleged victims of assault - Arseholes

People who become amused at repetitive and baseless demands for an apology - Wankers


Any more?


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2012)

are you bored?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, that wasn't obvious to Minnie, Editor, and others who were still being careful to keep a balanced view at that point.


at what point did minnie, editor et al stop having a balanced view?


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Why? Because I've called you on the way you dismissed a story of *a woman* being assaulted when others still felt the case was open?





slowjoe said:


> Well, it was 50/50, others said it was too early to call, and you took a punt - the most obvious reason for the punt you took is *misogyny*, but it could be something else. But it still doesn't look good.
> 
> We might have to leave this that I'm rude, and you're a broken, possibly slightly *misogynistic* record.


ffs - what the fuck has Nadia's gender got to do with anything?  This repeated claiming of this event as in anyway being a matter of sexist oppression or abuse is, frankly, insulting to women.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, Brixton Hatter said 'if you feel that strongly about it', which is a pretty shocking down-playing of an alleged racist assault.


do you believe there was a racist assault? y/n, no fucking blather.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> at what point did minnie, editor et al stop having a balanced view?



Sorry, balanced is the wrong word - the point is that they and most others weren't calling it either way at that point.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Blagsta said that Nadia 'sounds like an arsehole' - which as it turns out is probably true, bit was a pretty fucking interesting to find relevant at that stage.


do you mean it's probably true that (a) blagsta said nadia 'sounded like an arsehole', (b) nadia does sound like an arsehole, or (c) nadia is an arsehole?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Sorry, balanced is the wrong word - the point is that they and most others weren't calling it either way at that point.


leaving aside 'at that point', does reading the rest of the thread validate or invalidate the points blagsta was making at this early stage?


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> do you believe there was a racist assault? y/n, no fucking blather.



No you silly twat, as I said in my first post on this thread. I just think it's a shame a couple of people seem to have made up their minds rather worryingly prematurely.


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> ffs - what the fuck has Nadia's gender got to do with anything? This repeated claiming of this event as in anyway being a matter of sexist oppression or abuse is, frankly, insulting to women.


shh. let the men sort this out.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> ffs - what the fuck has Nadia's gender got to do with anything?  This repeated claiming of this event as in anyway being a matter of sexist oppression or abuse is, frankly, insulting to women.



Fair enough in the second two examples (in the case of the first, I said 'woman' because it was a woman, and would have said 'man' if it was a man.

As I was trying to make clear, I don't know exactly why Blagsta decided that early on that Nadia was full of shit, but I can't think of any reasons that don't reflect badly on him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> No you silly twat, as I said in my first post on this thread. I just think it's a shame a couple of people seem to have made up their minds rather worryingly prematurely.


so you think it's appropriate when this thread's reached into the 30s of pages and more than 1000 posts to have a pop at people who called this correctly when there were 35 fewer pages and fewer than 100 posts contributed.

what a fucking timewasting cunt you are.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Cronyism is probably the single biggest factor tbh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Cronyism is probably the single biggest factor tbh.


for the alleged assault on the vodka-swilling, punch-throwing singer of the tuts?


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> so you think it's appropriate when this thread's reached into the 30s of pages and more than 1000 posts to have a pop at people who called this correctly when there were 35 fewer pages and fewer than 100 posts contributed.
> 
> what a fucking timewasting cunt you are.



Not all of us have the time to be unappointed editors of this site


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Not all of us have the time to be unappointed editors of this site


i'm not acting as a mod, i'm pointing out you're a cunt.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> for the alleged assault on the vodka-swilling, punch-throwing singer of the tuts?



Cronyism is probably the main reason some people believed one side or the other before it was clear who was telling the truth. This will apply on both sides.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not acting as a mod, i'm pointing out you're a cunt.



I can't say I rate most of your interjections that highly either, although I confess you do succeed in dispersing them very widely.


----------



## Callie (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Sorry, balanced is the wrong word - the point is that they and most others weren't calling it either way at that point.


 they were thinking it though.


----------



## paolo (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Cronyism is probably the single biggest factor tbh.



You'd have point to argue if blagsta called it wrongly, or he(?) had a history on this kind of thing, but as it stands I think you're arguing a very fringe point given the context that has unfolded.


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2012)

also a point he was challenged on and clarified immediately after posting, tbf.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I can't say I rate most of your interjections that highly either, although I confess you do succeed in dispersing them very widely.


i've not been talking about the poor quality of your posts, given the shit hand you've chosen to play you've not really done all that badly.

but to reiterate, if you desired any impact or relevance to this thread, you'd have submitted your contributions some days ago. and failing that you should have worked out the boat had sailed and left the thread well alone. instead you decided to act the cunt by having a pop at the people who called this right, right from the start, for some spurious wank which makes no fucking sense, whatsoever.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Callie said:


> they were thinking it though.



Yes, that's a good thing, just to be clear. I am in favour of people thinking it though. Blagsta was part of a small minority who had a go at someone who was still potentially a victim before the full story was out. Most others did the right thing and held their horses.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Yes, that's a good thing, just to be clear. I am in favour of people thinking it though. Blagsta was part of a small minority who had a go at someone who was still potentially a victim before the full story was out. Most others did the right thing and held their horses.


you're forgetting that the events under discussion were not contemporaneous with the thread, that they had been played out some time before the op was submitted, and so AT NO POINT during the discussion was there any chance that nadia was a 'victim'.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Well in that case I have misunderstood this:



ethel said:


> A guy I know put on a gig at the windmill last night. It ended with an allegation of assault and racial abuse of one of the band members


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 11, 2012)

And even if she was a victim, she was still acting like a drunken arsehole. That doesn't mean she would have deserved a slap, it's just a comment on her behaviour, that of a drunken arsehole.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Eh?


i thought you had started reading the thread with the op but now i'm not so sure


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 11, 2012)

wait.  this is a discussions bord.   making a guess at what has happened is  kinda what you do.

it is a melting pot of opinions.

really  saying people  shouldn't   do this kind of things  is trying to enforce.... a monothough clique?

and  don't say   wait till  all the info is out.   if that was the case  we still shouldn't  try to come to any conclusion.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Cronyism is probably the main reason some people believed one side or the other before it was clear who was telling the truth. This will apply on both sides.


 
i think your cronyism to cronism is the reason you belive this to be the case.

you must now disapear in a puff of logic


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> wait.  this is a discussions bord.   making a guess at what has happened is  kinda what you do.
> 
> it is a melting pot of opinions.
> 
> ...



Indeed. But by the same token, people are allowed to express opinions about other people's opinions and what those opinions say about them. I've had my say about Blagsta's, others are having theirs about mine - all fair enough afaics


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought you had started reading the thread with the op but now i'm not so sure



That was the OP.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> That was the OP.


i know. you had apparently just come across it.

but your quoting the op just reinforces the point i made. ethel's reference to LAST NIGHT makes it explicit that the events described were IN THE PAST. so AT NO POINT was there any chance nadia would turn into the victim, despite what you might like to think.


----------



## paolo (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Indeed. But by the same token, people are allowed to express opinions about other people's opinions and what those opinions say about them. I've had my say about Blagsta's, others are having theirs about mine - all fair enough afaics



Sure, no one should be gagged, but I think the thing is that you are *really* over egging a point. (I do it myself from time to time, and rightly get rounded on  )


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Indeed. But by the same token, people are allowed to express opinions about other people's opinions and what those opinions say about them. I've had my say about Blagsta's, others are having theirs about mine - all fair enough afaics


could you in the future try to ensure your opinion is an opinion worth having, instead of trotting out the sort of shit you've inflicted on us here.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

paolo said:


> Sure, no one should be gagged, but I think the thing is that you are *really* over egging a point. (I do it myself from time to time, and rightly get rounded on  )



I think that's a bit unfair - it was a limited point and in my original post it was couched in those terms. But Blagsta wanted to actually turn the rather unfortunate remark he'd made into a point of merit. I confess I've had fun winding him up a bit, but I'm sorry others feel I'm somehow raking over ashes unnecessarily.


----------



## Ol Nick (Jul 11, 2012)

I'd like to hear a little more on this subject, if that's possible. Does anyone for instance have a view on what someone's view on someone else's view may have been before we knew what someone else's view was?

Anyone?


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i know. you had apparently just come across it.
> 
> but your quoting the op just reinforces the point i made. ethel's reference to LAST NIGHT makes it explicit that the events described were IN THE PAST. so AT NO POINT was there any chance nadia would turn into the victim, despite what you might like to think.



And you accuse me of making a narrow point - I think everyone appart from you understands that the my contention was that she could at that point HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE a victim.


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I confess I've had fun winding him up a bit


ah, that old chestnut.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

killer b said:


> ah, that old chestnut.



To be clear, I enjoyed the fact that he was getting wound up, nothing I said was primarily for that purpose.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> And you accuse me of making a narrow point - I think everyone appart from you understands that the my contention was that she could at that point HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE a victim.


no she couldn't. i understand your contention, as i'm sure other people do, but it's a fucking stupid contention because there was no possibility that she could have been a victim.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Indeed. But by the same token, people are allowed to express opinions about other people's opinions and what those opinions say about them. I've had my say about Blagsta's, others are having theirs about mine - all fair enough afaics


 
by the same token  i think because of that post your dad rapes goats.

see that's me  trying to read into your post   badly.

i think you might have a wider agenda  

that is me using incompleate  information to  guess at a possible solution.

i wonder what other people think about your posts


espicially the goat owners


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> no she couldn't. i understand your contention, as i'm sure other people do, but it's a fucking stupid contention because there was no possibility that she could have been a victim.



As far as most people thought they could tell, she could.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> As far as most people thought they could tell, she could.


people can think what they like, doesn't mean they're going to be right.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2012)

So, slowjoe felches goats after his dad has fucked them, eh? ITSHTM!

Ah well, it takes all sorts to make a world!


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 11, 2012)

So, any recent word from the tuts / anyone involved? is it over yet? just wondered..


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> people can think what they like, doesn't mean they're going to be right.



Indeed not, but at that point, nobody knew whose story would turn out to be the right one.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, before I came along, you'd last posted on this thread ~12 hours previously...


 
Yeah, it was all alive and kicking still at that point... we weren't performing resuscitation or anything on the thread.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Indeed not, but at that point, nobody knew whose story would turn out to be the right one.


you might have a point if some hours previously nadia had in fact been the victim of an assault and of racially-aggravated public order offences. but she wasn't. and this has over the past 30-odd pages become apparent.

so why don't you fuck off to bed and pretend the last 90 minutes of posting never happened?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Yeah, it was all alive and kicking still at that point... we weren't performing resuscitation or anything on the thread.


and then slowjoe turned up and buggered a comatose thread.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Apparently he's going to make "an artwork" out of it. What a wanker.


 
Grayson?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 11, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> So, slowjoe felches goats after his dad has fucked them, eh? ITSHTM!
> 
> Ah well, it takes all sorts to make a world!


 
well i did hear wolfbagging is actually named so because the original lady was  japanese and  wearing wolf ears.    which of course suuddenlt made it ok in my eyes


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> you might have a point if some hours previously nadia had in fact been the victim of an assault and of racially-aggravated public order offences. but she wasn't. and this has over the past 30-odd pages become apparent.



I've gone from thinking perhaps you were making a rather subtle point I wasn't getting, to realising that you are actually just quite thick.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

Seldom poster from early days seeks controversy.

Whose sock puppet?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I've gone from thinking perhaps you were making a rather subtle point I wasn't getting, to realising that you are actually just quite thick.


let's put it this way. the incident was over some hours before this thread started. by page 2 some people were calling it correctly, although others wanted more information. when this was forthcoming pretty much everyone agreed with the first people, like blagsta, who made their conclusions known. after a further 1000 posts some cunt turns up and starts saying how off it is that some people made their minds up early in the thread when there was still the chance that nadia was the victim. but that's a load of bollocks, because a) you were too late to have any impact on the debate, instead showing anyone who cares to read the thread what a fuckwitted shitferbrains cunt you are, and b) there was NO CHANCE that this thread or any discussion anywhere would alter the facts of the incident at the windmill.

i too thought at first you were making a rather subtle point. but you're not, you're just, in the words of the smiths, a flatulent pain in the arse.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

(@C66) Frankly, I'm surprised by the level of interest I've provoked with a basically sincere post. I might be the one who stuck my electric dick up this corpses arse, but it's you guys who've been holding it up as it lurched down the corridor.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Frankly, I'm surprised by the level of interest I've provoked with a basically sincere post.


 
No you're not. You courted it.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> No you're not. You courted it.



Yes obviously, but it takes two to tango and a good few more for the sweet little ceilidh we've had this evening.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Yes obviously, but it takes two to tango and a good few more for the sweet little ceilidh we've had this evening.


 
Why today? Why make your grand entrance to urban on this mid July eve rather than any of the other evenings of the last ten years that you've said the sum total of fuck all?


----------



## two sheds (Jul 11, 2012)

has the snide feeling of mmmSkyscraper's recent reincarnation


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Why today? Why make your grand entrance to urban on this mid July eve rather than any of the other evenings of the last ten years that you've said the sum total of fuck all?


he hasn't said anything of great interest this evening beyond having a pop at people who'd worked things out early in the thread, and making himself look like something of a tosser.


----------



## George & Bill (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> let's put it this way. the incident was over some hours before this thread started. by page 2 some people were calling it correctly, although others wanted more information. when this was forthcoming pretty much everyone agreed with the first people, like blagsta, who made their conclusions known. after a further 1000 posts some cunt turns up and starts saying how off it is that some people made their minds up early in the thread when there was still the chance that nadia was the victim. but that's a load of bollocks, because a) you were too late to have any impact on the debate, instead showing anyone who cares to read the thread what a fuckwitted shitferbrains cunt you are, and b) there was NO CHANCE that this thread or any discussion anywhere would alter the facts of the incident at the windmill.
> 
> i too thought at first you were making a rather subtle point. but you're not, you're just, in the words of the smiths, a flatulent pain in the arse.



The thing you're doing, which is sort of cute but also a bit scary, is to attach merit to the fact of having turned out to be right, regardless of the process gone through to reach whatever position at the time. You clearly think Blagsta made a brilliant deduction. I think he was blindly sticking up for someone. There you go.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> he hasn't said anything of great interest this evening beyond having a pop at people who'd worked things out early in the thread, and making himself look like something of a tosser.


 
It's more the splash from the diving board. Or perhaps his (and it is a he) other 3000 posts have done the same sporadically over the years. Perhaps he has an entire misogyny-fighting history there waiting to be discovered. I'm off to bed. I'll leave it to someone who has time and can be arsed to check the details.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> The thing you're doing, which is sort of cute but also a bit scary, is to attach merit to the fact of having turned out to be right, regardless of the process gone through to reach whatever position at the time. You clearly think Blagsta made a brilliant deduction. I think he was blindly sticking up for someone. There you go.


think what you will, but please don't inflict it on us again


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## George & Bill (Jul 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Why today? Why make your grand entrance to urban on this mid July eve rather than any of the other evenings of the last ten years that you've said the sum total of fuck all?



It reflects well on you that you haven't bothered to actually look at when I last posted, but actually, it can't have been more than a few days ago. The number of replies that my original and subsequent posts on this thread have generated isn't something in my control; I suppose if all my - mostly fairly obscure and conversation-unfriendly - posts on here generated as many responses, I might have as any posts to my name as you do.


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## George & Bill (Jul 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> think what you will, but please don't inflict it on us again



I'll inflict as I see fit I suppose, but I'm confident enought that at least I won't be doing so quite on the scale you manage. If that's all, them goodnight.


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## Blagsta (Jul 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Grayson?


More Larry than Perry


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Well, Brixton Hatter said 'if you feel that strongly about it', which is a pretty shocking down-playing of an alleged racist assault.


Bollocks. I was reserving judgement before hearing the full story. I think you'll find I urged the Tuts to make a statement to the police. Stop stirring shit mate.....you're a week late to the discussion anyway. We've already done all this.


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe by name, slowjoe by nature....


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I'll inflict as I see fit I suppose, but I'm confident enought that at least I won't be doing so quite on the scale you manage. If that's all, them goodnight.


Hey slowjoe, I heard that Seamus is going open up a Khan's franchise at the Windmill. From now on, the pub will be "The Windmill: colour-free cuisine and beer" 

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/camberwell-chitter-chatter.234926/page-23#post-11279952


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## Crispy (Jul 12, 2012)

The time for this meta discussion has long passed and now only serves to open wounds. I see your point, SJ, but it doesn't really need making now.


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

I can't say impressed with the way slowjoe has been treated here. He's entitled to his opinions - even if they do arrive a little late to the party - but all the sockpuppet accusations and linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I can't say impressed with the way slowjoe has been treated here. He's entitled to his opinions - even if they do arrive a little late to the party - but all the sockpuppet accusations and linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.



You're not proper urbans until you've been accused of being a sockpuppet/firky. He's finally made the grade.


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## Blagsta (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I can't say impressed with the way slowjoe has been treated here. He's entitled to his opinions - even if they do arrive a little late to the party - but all the sockpuppet accusations and linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.


Bollocks. He's thrown around baseless accusations of misogyny and generally behaved like a cunt.


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## TopCat (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> If you'd given your reasons on page 2, you might not have come across as badly as you did.
> 
> I've made my point, and unless you have anything further to add ('you owe me an apology' again, maybe?), I'll leave you to learn from, or remain oblivious to your mistake, as you choose.


Where did this slug emerge from?


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## TopCat (Jul 12, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Apparently he's going to make "an artwork" out of it. What a wanker.


We can impale the self styled hipster right on it.


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## George & Bill (Jul 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The time for this meta discussion has long passed and now only serves to open wounds.



Fair enough - and if this had been the character of responses to my first post, I don't think there's much more I could have said. But a few people in one breath said 'this is ancient history', and in the next wanted to have it out over the details. You'll have to forgive me if in those circumstances, the protestations of it all being in the past seemed more like a prop for weak arguments than a genuine entreaty to let it lie.


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## golightly (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I can't say impressed with the way slowjoe has been treated here. He's entitled to his opinions - even if they do arrive a little late to the party - but all the sockpuppet accusations and linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.


 
Two mentions of him being a sock puppet and one link to another thread.  It's hardly reasonable to make a sweeping statement about slowjoe's treatment on this thread from three posts.


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## George & Bill (Jul 12, 2012)

TopCat said:


> We can impale the self styled hipster right on it.



I feel genuinely sorry for most of the upset I may have caused here, but Blagsta, and now you, are pure comedy


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## TopCat (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> I feel genuinely sorry for most of the upset I may have caused here, but Blagsta, and now you, are pure comedy


We are laughing at you.


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## Orang Utan (Jul 12, 2012)

Blagsta's demands for an apology were quite amusing too


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## George & Bill (Jul 12, 2012)

TopCat said:


> We are laughing at you.



if you say so, brother


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## RaverDrew (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I can't say impressed with the way slowjoe has been treated here. He's entitled to his opinions - even if they do arrive a little late to the party - but all the sockpuppet accusations and linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.


 
Just lie back and think of the page views...


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I can't say impressed with the way slowjoe has been treated here. He's entitled to his opinions - even if they do arrive a little late to the party - but all the sockpuppet accusations and linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.


 
Yep. The editor is bang on with this one.

Also sad to see people _still_ having a pop at people's opinions based on how few other posts they've made.


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## TopCat (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> Yep. The editor is bang on with this one.
> 
> Also sad to see people _still_ having a pop at people's opinions based on how few other posts they've made.


Not unusual. A trusted and known person has more credibility than an unknown and untrusted person.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> Yep. The editor is bang on with this one.
> 
> Also sad to see people _still_ having a pop at people's opinions based on how few other posts they've made.


Not everyone was: though in retrospect I rather wish I had


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## a bigoted woman (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> Yep. The editor is bang on with this one.
> Also sad to see people _still_ having a pop at people's opinions based on how few other posts they've made.


 
I have a 33*:29 posts-to-likes ratio, thank you very much.

It's not how many you post, it's how you post them.


(34:29 now, losing my touch)


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Not unusual. A trusted and known person has more credibility than an unknown and untrusted person.


 
That's not what was said.


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Not everyone was: though in retrospect I rather wish I had


 
It is just the sort of bollocks you'd come out with, yeah. Look forward to you putting your foot in it in the future sometime.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> It is just the sort of bollocks you'd come out with, yeah. Look forward to you putting your foot in it in the future sometime.


You're not known for your rapier wit, are you.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> ...linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.


Sorry if you think that was out of order but it was really just a gentle/friendly bit of pisstaking, based on the fact that slowjoe generated about 3 pages of argument over the sub-title to Khan's new restaurant. He's done even better on this thread!


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Sorry if you think that was out of order but it was really just a gentle/friendly bit of pisstaking, based on the fact that slowjoe generated about 3 pages of argument over the sub-title to Khan's new restaurant. He's done even better on this thread!


It was probably fine on its own, but it just seemed a bit mean in the context of this thread.


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Just lie back and think of the page views...


I would if there was moolah-earning advertising attached.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> And you accuse me of making a narrow point - I think everyone appart from you understands that the my contention was that she could at that point HAVE TURNED OUT TO BE a victim.


she could have turned out to be a hippo but she didn't did she... 

what if all of urbans had called it wrong and the hippo population had died out...

fucking urban 75 wanting all hippos dead the cunts etc... 

btw for reference she's not a hippo just a cunt...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I can't say impressed with the way slowjoe has been treated here. He's entitled to his opinions - even if they do arrive a little late to the party - but all the sockpuppet accusations and linking to unrelated threads isn't on, really.


sorry no.

slow joe wandered in here and said the majority of urban was sexist and racist.

I want evidence for that claim alone...



slowjoe said:


> I've already named two of them you numpty. As I've also already said, they may have perfectly good reasons for their positions, but those certainly weren't apparant to someone reading who didn't know any of the people in question - and there's just a chance that might actually be the majority.


then in the tradition of authoritarianism people without relevant knowledge of the subject get no say.  

That's you btw...

stop being a cock...

defending a violent drunken rude and libelous child who can't hold her booze and thinks that she's being controversial/ radical/ taking on the world by her behaviour in some tedious teenage webelleion is no better than defend some toerag who's been beating kids up for phones... same poor socially decrepit morally bankrupt pathetic behaviour... 

tell me again about the majority of Urban 75 defending sexism and racism... 

you'd best have some proof of that bold claim so post it up... 

or is it actually that the persons generalising and making broad brush statements are in fact you and you're judging others by your own terribly low standards because you're incapable of seeing past your own limits...

it's this innit...

shame the editor couldn't be arsed to read all your dull posts so supported your bollocks...


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> shame the editor couldn't be arsed to read all your dull posts so supported your bollocks...


I'm not "supporting" his comments, but the 'sockpuppet' accusations were indeed out of order.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm not "supporting" his comments, but the 'sockpuppet' accusations were indeed out of order.



A crime which you yourself have never been guilty of.


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> A crime which you yourself have never been guilty of.


I don't need to make groundless accusations because I have access to the board's ID-matching software.


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## a bigoted woman (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't need to make groundless accusations because I have access to the board's ID-matching software.


 
sometimes an ego-matching software would be more useful, amirite?


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't need to make groundless accusations because I have access to the board's ID-matching software.



I mean when you didn't. 

Like when my cousin's mate came here and started trolling you accused her of being my sock puppet. If you'd had your whizz bang software back then it would have informed you that she was in the united states. Or perhaps you thought I was using a proxy or something.


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## George & Bill (Jul 12, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> sorry no.
> 
> slow joe wandered in here and said the majority of urban was sexist and racist.
> 
> ...



Maybe you'd better show me where I said the majority of Urban was racist and sexist, you silly semi-literate prick


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I mean when you didn't.
> 
> Like when my cousin's mate came here and started trolling you accused her of being my sock puppet. If you'd had your whizz bang software back then it would have informed you that she was in the united states. Or perhaps you thought I was using a proxy or something.


And how long ago was this, pray tell?


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> And how long ago was this, pray tell?



Well, like 2004ish! 

Note: regular users don't have access to people's ip details.


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Well, like 2004ish!


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

As i said, a crime that you yourself have never been guilty of.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> Yep. The editor is bang on with this one.


 

never thought i'd see the day...


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## Blagsta (Jul 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Blagsta's demands for an apology were quite amusing too


Tbf, its a bit shite to be accused of being a woman hater for no apparent reason.


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## Blagsta (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm not "supporting" his comments, but the 'sockpuppet' accusations were indeed out of order.


But the accusations of misogyny were fine, presumably?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Maybe you'd better show me where I said the majority of Urban was racist and sexist, you silly semi-literate prick


semi literate I may be but you're a cunt



slowjoe said:


> *But unfortunately, some of the earlier posts also show that among regular posters are those willing to err towards brushing aside allegations of racist violence.*


 
no that's not an accusation of racism is it against regular posters ... oh no... need we go on.... with this tedious charade where I have to re-quote your own words back to you and you slope off and never post a response... I don't got time...


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> You're not known for your rapier wit, are you.


 
You have now completely changed my mind, well done.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> But the accusations of misogyny were fine, presumably?


This is a standard and this is another standard.

that's right there's two of them.

what of it...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> You have now completely changed my mind, well done.


o the hilarity Suplex with this words you do most amuse...


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## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> You have now completely changed my mind, well done.


i'm not trying to change your mind i'm saying you are not known for your rapier wit


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> But the accusations of misogyny were fine, presumably?


Didn't see them and I can't say I'm too mindful to trawl through 1,200 posts to find out what was said. Sorry.

However, you are free to report any content which you believe overstepped the mark.


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## George & Bill (Jul 12, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> semi literate I may be but you're a cunt
> 
> 
> 
> no that's not an accusation of racism is it against regular posters ... oh no... need we go on.... with this tedious charade where I have to re-quote your own words back to you and you slope off and never post a response... I don't got time...



Right, so you have not managed to find me saying that anyone is actively racist, let alone the majority of the board. If I was Blagsta, I'd be demanding an apology by now, but as it is, I'm happy have my opinion of you - as a thick, irrelevant imbecile - further confirmed.


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not trying to change your mind i'm saying you are not known for your rapier wit


 
Yes, that was my point.

Not very sharp, are you.


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## teuchter (Jul 12, 2012)

Can I just say that I think slowjoe is essentially correct in the point he made.

My recommendation to him is that he read the london_calling_ethnic_tosser thread, and see if he can identify any of the people on that thread stressing how important it is to understand that provocation is utterly irrelevant to any judgement passed on whether or not someone is racist, who also posted on this thread with comments about "nadia" being an arsehole or whatever as if it had any relevance to the allegations of racism discussed.

Then he should see how many more pages he can get out of that.


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## a bigoted woman (Jul 12, 2012)

these have been the most interesting six pages of this thread so far. i wish this will carry on forever.

xpost


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## butchersapron (Jul 12, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Can I just say that I think slowjoe is essentially correct in the point he made.
> 
> My recommendation to him is that he read the london_calling_ethnic_tosser thread, and see if he can identify any of the people on that thread stressing how important it is to understand that provocation is utterly irrelevant to any judgement passed on whether or not someone is racist, who also posted on this thread with comments about "nadia" being an arsehole or whatever as if it had any relevance to the allegations of racism discussed.
> 
> Then he should see how many more pages he can get out of that.


Name names then. If you think that you've identified gross hypocrisy, then point it out.


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## teuchter (Jul 12, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Name names then. If you think that you've identified gross hypocrisy, then point it out.


 
I haven't; I've simply recommended it as a project for slowjoe to undertake if he wants; a kind of research proposal if you like.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Didn't see them and I can't say I'm too mindful to trawl through 1,200 posts to find out what was said. Sorry.
> 
> However, you are free to report any content which you believe overstepped the mark.



Ahhhhhhhh! Someone's been reporting posts then.


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## butchersapron (Jul 12, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I haven't; I've simply recommended it as a project for slowjoe to undertake if he wants; a kind of research proposal if you like.


Yes yes, i'm sure that you didn't have anyone particular in mind.


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## cesare (Jul 12, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I haven't; I've simply recommended it as a project for slowjoe to undertake if he wants; a kind of research proposal if you like.



What, so he can bump that one too?


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## a bigoted woman (Jul 12, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I haven't; I've simply recommended it as a project for slowjoe to undertake if he wants; a kind of research proposal if you like.


 
keeps them off the streets


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Ahhhhhhhh! Someone's been reporting posts then.


AFAIK, no one has been reporting posts from this thread. It's a shame it's drifted away from the topic under discussion and turned into a dull point-scoring fest.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I haven't; I've simply recommended it as a project for slowjoe to undertake if he wants; a kind of research proposal if you like.



Having a good old stir then.


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## a bigoted woman (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> It's a shame it's drifted away from the topic under discussion and turned into a dull point-scoring fest.


 
how is this possibly dull???  it's like watching computer programs talking to each other in binary.  Fun!


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> It's a shame it's drifted away from the topic under discussion and turned into a dull point-scoring fest.


 
I wonder if that's ever happened before, and if the same posters were involved?


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## teuchter (Jul 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Having a good old stir then.


 
Yes, you are correct.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> I wonder if that's ever happened before, and if the same posters were involved?



You mean posters involved such as yourself?


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

Oh no, of course I'm above such things.


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## teuchter (Jul 12, 2012)

I've never seen Onket get involved with that kind of thing and it's something I steer clear of myself too.


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## Onket (Jul 12, 2012)

Quite right.


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## teuchter (Jul 12, 2012)

Good, well, that's that cleared up then.


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## Blagsta (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Didn't see them and I can't say I'm too mindful to trawl through 1,200 posts to find out what was said. Sorry.
> 
> However, you are free to report any content which you believe overstepped the mark.


You're being a bit hypocritical, if you don't mind me saying so.


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## Blagsta (Jul 12, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Can I just say that I think slowjoe is essentially correct in the point he made.
> 
> My recommendation to him is that he read the london_calling_ethnic_tosser thread, and see if he can identify any of the people on that thread stressing how important it is to understand that provocation is utterly irrelevant to any judgement passed on whether or not someone is racist, who also posted on this thread with comments about "nadia" being an arsehole or whatever as if it had any relevance to the allegations of racism discussed.
> 
> Then he should see how many more pages he can get out of that.


Although of course, I did state that racism was inexcusable. Is it too much to ask that people read the thread before wading in?


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## Blagsta (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> AFAIK, no one has been reporting posts from this thread. It's a shame it's drifted away from the topic under discussion and turned into a dull point-scoring fest.


Right, so you're taking sides then. Thanks mate.


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> You're being a bit hypocritical, if you don't mind me saying so.


And you're being a childish, petty arse. Use the 'report post' button if you wish to report an offensive post because I'm not going to trawl through every single post on your behalf to try and find out what it is that's upset you.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2012)




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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

I think I'll close this thread if the bunfest continues, in line with the FAQ.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 12, 2012)

This whole thread is stupid and I can't be arsed to read the last few pages of argument, so I have come to the conclusion that Nadia is a racist bully who picks on people not her size and it serves Seamus right for bringing his own drink in and getting drunk and abusive


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## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2012)

Onket said:


> Yes, that was my point.


I said you're not known for your rapier wit but it is a surprise to have you agree with me


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I said you're not known for your rapier wit but it is a surprise to have you agree with me


Stop, please.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> And you're being a childish, petty arse. Use the 'report post' button if you wish to report an offensive post because I'm not going to trawl through every single post on your behalf to try and find out what it is that's upset you.


Post reported will you now deal with it?


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Post reported will you now deal with it?


Your reported post makes no sense to me at all, so I'll let another mod deal with it.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Your reported post makes no sense to me at all, so I'll let another mod deal with it.


These goalpost live here....

..........................................................................................now they are here. 

Magic...


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 12, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Maybe you'd better show me where I said the majority of Urban was racist and sexist, you silly semi-literate prick


 
He's dyslexic. If he were "semi-literate" he wouldn't have been able to write such a grammatically-correct and engaging reply to your post, you ignorant dung-eater.


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Thread closed for a while. Well done, all concerned.


----------

