# Personal referees



## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

wtf?

Who can I / should I cite as a personal referee on a CV / job application?!


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## Jon-of-arc (Apr 25, 2012)

you can put me down if you like.


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## rubbershoes (Apr 25, 2012)

You're not even a mod


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## Ax^ (Apr 25, 2012)

Know any sort of professional / some sort of friend who's a manager or anyone with their own business?


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## wayward bob (Apr 25, 2012)

you can use anyone who's known you long enough. ffs my mate uses _me_ as her referee


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## quimcunx (Apr 25, 2012)

Nigel.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> Know any sort of professional / some sort of friend who's a manager or anyone with their own business?


Good grief, no 

e2a: I've also detached from most of my friends up North since moving down South; and from most of my friends down South since spending a year up North on fieldwork, ffs.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

Though I've helped out a fair few senior rozzers in statistical crises? Don't really know them, though. Pffft.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

Salsa teacher?


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## Ax^ (Apr 25, 2012)

Ok plan B find some to lie and say they have known  you for years...


And that you very unlikely to kill, rape , steal and the like


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

It's got to be the cat, really, hasn't it.


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## Limejuice (Apr 25, 2012)

My mates sometimes ask me to be a referee or to countersign stuff because I'm a director of a company (with 1 employee  )

If you know anyone in a trade using a ltd co set up, they might be a fair bet.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> It's got to be the cat, really, hasn't it.


The cat would give me a fucking awesome reference.

I've realised that I could name the volunteer co-ordinator / lead at the night shelter I volunteer for...

Though I had been thinking of using her as a professional referee. Which is a bit difficult / problematic, tbh, because it's an application for a research post. And my volunteering really isn't research-related.

_All _my work over the last 5 years - which has given me a reasonably respectable CV - has been within the university. One of my 'professional' referees needs to be non-University.

I'm fucked if I can think of anyone else 'non-university' that I could cite, other than the volunteer co-ordinator, in a remotely professional or work-related context.

e2a: apart from someone like my undergraduate supervisor, ffs, and I last spoke to him 6 or 7 years ago!


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## wayward bob (Apr 25, 2012)

honestly they don't give a shit how respectable you are 

edit: for ref me and my mate volunteered together in reasonably responsible positions (i think i was some kind of treasurer at some point ) and have known each other since our eldests were babies. she's applying for work with children/mothers and that's the context of a lot of our relationship, so i guess in that respect i may be more "respectable" than i realise


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> honestly they don't give a shit how respectable you are


It's for conducting quite extensive interviews in prisons...

I've already done what I can to clear the ok-ness of my criminal record. Such as it is.

But I'd need to pass NOMS / Ministry of Justice security checks. And I'm pretty damned sure that there's going to be one helluva lot of applicants for the posts, which'll mean that references are likely to count.

Having said that, I know the people who're advertising the post. I've worked with them, and like them. I think the feeling's mutual. But I really don't feel that gives me any leeway in putting in a shit, or remotely substandard, application.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

Also, Artichoke's commuting to France 1-2 days per week for the next year or two.

She's got (understandably) tight ideas about where we can live, and those ideas put some massive constraints on job opportunities (e.g. lecturing posts were recently advertised in Belfast, with a specific interest in new doctors; no f***ing chance, even though it'd be £12-16k more p/a than the research assistant post.)

That makes this one even more pertinent / interesting / scarce / weighty. So to speak.


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## wayward bob (Apr 25, 2012)

you must have met _somebody_ over the past 10 years who'd vouch for you?  i still giggle over the fact that the dappiest member of our antenatal group who regularly gave up coming for coffee cos she couldn't find the house is now a judge


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 25, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> e2a: I've  detached from most of my friends since getting a SO and a cat


 
I've messed around with this post to make a point in what I hope is both an inoffensive yet cutting manner. I hope you don't mind


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## quimcunx (Apr 25, 2012)

I'm a director of a co.  what do you want me to say?


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## weltweit (Apr 25, 2012)

Can it be family members?


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## quimcunx (Apr 25, 2012)

Is artichoke respectable?   Can she do you one?


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## wayward bob (Apr 25, 2012)

*imagines a world where references are based on your skills/enthusiasm in bed*


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 25, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Can it be family members?


 
NO NEVER


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Is artichoke respectable? Can she do you one?


I shall ask her later if she can do me one.

And if she's respectable.

Erm.

She's not really respectable in any structural sense. Student. (Unless she plays the 'teacher' card  She has been lecturing / teaching for a couple of years  Though she's now going back to studying  )

Erm. I might be able to blag a couple of my parents old-time family friends. There are a fair few old buffers in there.

Dammit, if I'd kept up rowing, I might've been able to draw on some proper old-skool old school ties


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

p.s. I've emailed my supervisors in desperation. Fingers crossed they'll have some half-decent ideas


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

Why not use the volunteer co-ordinator?  Sounds perfect.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> Why not use the volunteer co-ordinator?  Sounds perfect.


Whilst this is an excellent start, I need _two _personal referees.

If I use the volunteer co-ordinator as a personal referee, I then have to think of a third, non-university professional referee.

Which is even more of a headache.

I need 5 figging referees in total.

I'm ok with 3 of those. One of whom is EITHER personal or professional (the co-ordinator). The others I'm drawing a blank on.


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

5 referees? Wow. Never heard of that before. 
So you're going to have 3 academic referees, and 2 personal referees?


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## ChrisD (Apr 25, 2012)

Traditionally I think that's where you're supposed to name your vicar....(more tea vicar?)   
Nowdays it's anyone who's word they trust....  load of rubbish and a waste of time really. 

Presumably Ian Huntly (Soham Murderer) managed a good reference at the time. 

This system worked in times gone by when people lived in more fixed communities etc. ... I'm clearing up my late mum's flat and found a lovely handwritten reference for her Dad when he came back from the first world war.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> 5 referees? Wow. Never heard of that before.
> So you're going to have 3 academic referees, and 2 personal referees?


Yep 

Well, 3 _professional _referees. Which really means academic in this context. One of whom must be non-university. Which is a double / triple 'wtf?' given I've been based here for 5 years...

I've got a 2-week old enhanced CRB (and will need another one for the job itself), but the 5 referees are quite definitely asked for 

As I read further and further down the application, I was all, like, eep? Srsly?


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## quimcunx (Apr 25, 2012)

As a lecturer/teacher artichoke will probably be fine as long as you've known each other as long as stipulated, if they've stipulated.

An old family friend might also be a good idea.

I've done a personal reference before for an ex, although I think I put friend rather than ex. I was a director then too.  

I can say some lovely things about you over the 5 years I've known you and I don't _have_ to mention winkybag.


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

Yeah, I know you work in academia, so I was conflating academic with professional. So do you have the 3 refs for that?

Edit: I thought partners counted as family? Ie. Not permitted?


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## quimcunx (Apr 25, 2012)

Oh. that would rule her out then.


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

So: 3 academic/professional refs, the volunteer co-ordinator and a geriatric family friend. Sorted.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> So: 3 academic/professional refs, the volunteer co-ordinator and a geriatric family friend. Sorted.


Don't have the 3 professionals.

I have 2 supervisors.

Either the volunteer co-ordinator is the third professional (and that's hardly academic), or I need to source a 3rd.

Geriatric family friends - waiting to hear back from my parents with suggestions 

Or quimmy, of course!


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## bi0boy (Apr 25, 2012)

Should be easy to get another academic, just anyone who works in a vaguely relevant department should do.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Should be easy to get another academic, just anyone who works in a vaguely relevant department should do.


From outside the university (not just my institute)... and who I've worked with... and / or who can referee my work...

Therein lies the problem!


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

Co-authored articles?


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> Co-authored articles?


None 

I've delivered... erm... 7 _large _practitioner-focused reports to my fieldwork sites (12-20,000 words apiece).

But when I was putting a paper together over Christmas, both my supervisors suggested I back off until my thesis was finished.

I was also meant to be working on a co-authored paper with my supervisor (unrelated / side project)... but she's half-killed herself with work, and doesn't seem to've even finished the final stage of our practitioner's report, which was due something like last August / September (I'd already stepped in to something like 5 or 6 missed deadlines, so am kinda wary of taking this work up again. It's already cost me more horrendous fortnights than I'd care to list...).


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

Hum. You might need 2 geriatrics, at this rate.


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## bi0boy (Apr 25, 2012)

When I applied for a job at Cambridge Uni I put my mate who's a drug addled mentalist down as one of the personal referees - they didn't bother to contact him. I got the job and while working there we happily employed people who we didn't get all the references back for, I think we just assumed the referees couldn't be arsed, and we'd already decided anyway - it's not like an application will hinge on getting a glowing recommendation from a third referee.


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## wayward bob (Apr 25, 2012)

do you reckon if one of your referees dies in the interim they let you off?


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> do you reckon if one of your referees dies in the interim they let you off?


 
I've just had a great idea for a murder mystery novel ...


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## claphamboy (Apr 25, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> When I applied for a job at Cambridge Uni I put my mate who's a drug addled mentalist down as one of the personal referees - they didn't bother to contact him. I got the job and while working there we happily employed people who we didn't get all the references back for, I think we just assumed the referees couldn't be arsed, and we'd already decided anyway - it's not like an application will hinge on getting a glowing recommendation from a third referee.


 
Whenever I've employed people, I've never once contacted any of the people or former employers that had been put down as references, always seemed pointless as who the hell would name someone that would give a bad reference?

Appointments were always made based on performance at the interview(s), knowing full well I could kick them out anytime during the probationary period if they proved to be useless.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

Parents've suggested a Reverend (who we know atheistically), a retired bank director, and a retired finance director. All of them parents of my old school friends, so they do - at least - know me.

This gives some wiggle room


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

*


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## peterkro (Apr 25, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Parents've suggested a Reverend (who we know atheistically), a retired bank director, and a retired finance director. All of them parents of my old school friends, so they do - at least - know me.
> 
> This gives some wiggle room


Bung the rev they'll do it.


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## claphamboy (Apr 25, 2012)

Or let the Rev bang you, that'll guarantee it.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 25, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Bung the rev they'll do it.


When my dad retired, he gave him his office photocopier. For doing general good.

On the next 4 occasions on which we met my dad, he went into protracted explanations of how the rev wasn't _really _that religious and how he was sure that it'd be used for other non-religious good-doing and community purposes, too.

By the fourth time, we were a bit, like, dad, is it us who needs to hear this, or is it you who needs to keep on saying it?


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## equationgirl (Apr 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Whenever I've employed people, I've never once contacted any of the people or former employers that had been put down as references, always seemed pointless as who the hell would name someone that would give a bad reference?
> 
> Appointments were always made based on performance at the interview(s), knowing full well I could kick them out anytime during the probationary period if they proved to be useless.


We-ll.
I named my PhD supervisor on a job application. 

He gave an okay reference, which included several mentions of the absences I'd had due to my medical problems. I know this, because the interview panel brought it up, and not in a good way.

I never used him again.


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## purenarcotic (Apr 27, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Don't have the 3 professionals.
> 
> I have 2 supervisors.
> 
> ...


 
It doesn't matter how academic the reference is, they just need to not be some hoodrat off the street.  Do you have a regular gym instructor?  A GP?  Ever done any sort of voluntary work?  An ex employer?

I have to say, five is a lot to have to find. =/


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## Corax (Apr 27, 2012)

Howard Webb, Alex Ferguson's.


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## Callie (Apr 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Whenever I've employed people, I've never once contacted any of the people or former employers that had been put down as references, always seemed pointless as who the hell would name someone that would give a bad reference?


 
I doubt people would do it on purpose but you might believe someone would give you a reasonable reference when they won't/don't/can't. I am going to have to use our Consultant Dr at work and although I don't think he would give me a bad reference per se he is pretty crap at communicating, responding in a timely manner and Im just not sure he's used to having to write such things! However I think it would look a bit odd/suspicious to not use him as a referee.


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## Athos (Apr 27, 2012)

equationgirl said:
			
		

> We-ll.
> I named my PhD supervisor on a job application.
> 
> He gave an okay reference, which included several mentions of the absences I'd had due to my medical problems. I know this, because the interview panel brought it up, and not in a good way.
> ...



In fairness, your prospective employer may have specifically asked your referee about attendance or even health.


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## Callie (Apr 27, 2012)

^true


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> The cat would give me a fucking awesome reference.


 



> To whom it may concern,
> 
> I confirm that I have known Mrs Quoad for some time, and in that time, he has performed essential duties such as providing nap spots, serving food, and litter tray emptying, in an exemplary manner.  He has also designed and constructed an excellent cat ladder so that I can access my garden from a first floor window in prompt time, on budget, and in accordance with the relevant regulations.
> 
> ...


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## toblerone3 (Apr 27, 2012)

Why can't an ordinary worker or employee who has known you for five years write a personal reference for you?


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## claphamboy (Apr 27, 2012)

Nigel, corker.


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## oryx (Apr 27, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> When my dad retired, he gave him his office photocopier.


 
I misread this as your dad giving the office photocopier as his referee.  

Sorry, it's the end of a very busy week at work.

FWIW, I did a training course on recruitment last year and references seem to be getting less and less important, e.g. nowadays it's commonplace for referees just to confirm the dates you worked in an organisation plus any disciplinary problems. AFAIK, this is due to paranoia about getting sued for giving a bad reference.

I fully appreciate it may be different in your sphere of work.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 27, 2012)

toblerone3 said:


> Why can't an ordinary worker or employee who has known you for five years write a personal reference for you?


I haven't worked with anyone for 5 years


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 27, 2012)

In the US, this is a referee: 







so, I was a little bit  by the thread title. 
I learn something new everyday here. 

good luck with your referee search


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## Callie (Apr 27, 2012)

we have those too, im not sure if those sort of referees automatically count as referees though. Are they on The List?


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## toblerone3 (Apr 27, 2012)

Callie said:


> we have those too, im not sure if those sort of referees automatically count as referees though. Are they on The List?


 
Referees are not professionals. They are amateurs I think.


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## quimcunx (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm going to be resigning my directorship. Fair warning.


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## toblerone3 (Apr 27, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I'm going to be resigning my directorship. Fair warning.


 
How long after resigning your directorship is your status as a potential referee going to last. One year after resigning will you still be able to do it?


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## quimcunx (Apr 27, 2012)

I  have no idea.


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## toblerone3 (Apr 27, 2012)

And does retirement affect your potential status as a referee. Will you still be able to do it when you're 64?


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## quimcunx (Apr 27, 2012)

I might be a director again by then.  Or even several times. Who knows.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 29, 2012)

Draft 3 of the CV printing out now...

Just the covering letter to go...

And then the forms.



Thank goodness for late-night snooker, and a slightly ill / exhausted Artichoke


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## Corax (Apr 29, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> In the US, this is a referee:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Our's look like this.


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## sheothebudworths (Aug 7, 2012)

Fuck sake....I need one personal ref ASAP!
Slightly my fault cos I should've asked earlier....but, I didn't  ....as it happens, they're both senior social workers    (one is the mother of one of my daughter's friends...one is my bezzer's ex)....but neither has replied so far (fuck, fuck, fuck!     ) and I need to send an email off to the new potential employer tomorrow.

My bezzer is a special needs teaching assistant...will that *do* and if so....wtf is she supposed to say if/when they do ask for a reference (the job is a kitchen assistant in a school, fwiw)?


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## quimcunx (Aug 7, 2012)

Dunno. 

PM me if you like.  or email me at rentaref.com


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## sheothebudworths (Aug 7, 2012)

Aw, fuck.  I know I don't deserve it    but I'm serious, tbf....and I'm stressing about it, too.


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## quimcunx (Aug 7, 2012)

So pm me. I was good enough for quoady to use.


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## sheothebudworths (Aug 7, 2012)

OMG for REAL! 

No, I couldn't do that! <----LAME-O


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## stuff_it (Aug 7, 2012)

sheothebudworths said:


> Fuck sake....I need one personal ref ASAP!
> Slightly my fault cos I should've asked earlier....but, I didn't  ....as it happens, they're both senior social workers    (one is the mother of one of my daughter's friends...one is my bezzer's ex)....but neither has replied so far (fuck, fuck, fuck!     ) and I need to send an email off to the new potential employer tomorrow.
> 
> My bezzer is a special needs teaching assistant...will that *do* and if so....wtf is she supposed to say if/when they do ask for a reference (the job is a kitchen assistant in a school, fwiw)?


For years one of my main referees was a senior probation officer (have known them since birth).


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## cesare (Aug 7, 2012)

I'll do it on company headed paper if you like, and need another one.


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## quimcunx (Aug 7, 2012)

There you go.  Two offers. Spoilt for choice. I can't offer headed paper.


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## cesare (Aug 7, 2012)

It's only my own employed by me one, tbf


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## quimcunx (Aug 7, 2012)

I've got some headed paper I stole from a hotel I stayed in in 1990.


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## spanglechick (Aug 7, 2012)

...and a teacher, if you prefer.  My PM box is open to you.


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## Meltingpot (Aug 7, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I've got some headed paper I stole from a hotel I stayed in in 1990.


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## equationgirl (Aug 8, 2012)

...and an engineer. I am a Quoad-referer too


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## rorymac (Aug 8, 2012)

sheothebudworths said:


> OMG for REAL!
> 
> No, I couldn't do that! <----LAME-O


 

An exceptional applicant !
Lively and enthusiastic with an abundance of knowledge re what is required
The perfect member of a team imo

Although you may have to keep your wallet in your pocket .. put your valuables in a safe place until sure about her .. you just never know 


Better safe_ than sorry !_





xxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## sheothebudworths (Aug 8, 2012)

OMG....now you're gonna make me para that _URBAN_ might think I'm a thief/cheat/liar etc etc etc    

Fuck...._really_ massive thanks you lot for the kind offers - that's well touching   - luckily one of them* did respond late last night so I emailed the company first thing this morning, so errrr....panic over  (I was WELL flustered, lol   )....





*The other one never even replied.....so she can fuck RIGHT off, the slag!


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