# Sensible information and advice about Coronavirus (COVID-19)



## editor (Mar 8, 2020)

I know there's loads of links scattered around the various threads, but I thought it might be an idea to collate the best ones here. PLEASE only post up credible links with an short para to explain their significance.  For subsequent general chat, please use this thread - General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat









						Covid symptoms: What are they and how do I protect myself?
					

A new cough, fever and change in smell or taste are the key symptoms of coronavirus.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				












						Coronavirus: Simple guide to staying safe
					

Step-by-step, what to do to help prevent the spread of the virus.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				









						BBC - Coronavirus (Covid-19) – advice for staff  - myRisks Information
					

Coronavirus (Covid-19) – advice for BBC staff and freelancers working for the BBC.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




This one on ArsTechnica is particularly good too:


> According to data from nearly 56,000 laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 patients in China, the rundown of common symptoms went as follows:
> 
> 
> 88 percent had a fever
> ...


















						Don’t Panic: The comprehensive Ars Technica guide to the coronavirus [Updated 4/5]
					

This is a fast-moving epidemic—we'll update this guide periodically.




					arstechnica.com


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## weltweit (Mar 8, 2020)

England Summary | Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK
					

Official Coronavirus (COVID-19) disease situation dashboard with latest data in the UK.




					www.gov.uk
				









						Travel abroad from England during coronavirus (COVID-19)
					

Check what you need to do to follow COVID-19 rules for other countries when you travel abroad from England.




					www.gov.uk
				









						[Withdrawn] Advice for home isolation
					






					www.gov.uk


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## lizzieloo (Mar 8, 2020)

Coronavirus Update (Live): 129,471,257 Cases and 2,828,154 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
					

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...




					www.worldometers.info


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## elbows (Mar 8, 2020)

World Heath Org stuff:









						Advice for the public on COVID-19 – World Health Organization
					

Simple precautions to reduce your chances of being infected or spreading COVID-19.




					www.who.int


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## Anju (Mar 8, 2020)

Good explanation of what a virus is and how it's transmitted, with some coronavirus specific info.
Deadly viruses are no match for plain, old soap — here’s the science behind it


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## quimcunx (Mar 8, 2020)

OMG I just sneezed!  What should I do?  






						Get help for your symptoms - NHS 111
					






					111.nhs.uk


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## Cloo (Mar 9, 2020)

The list of symptoms and their occurence is the most useful thing I've seen yet - have shared on FB. I think it's very helpful to make clear it's quite different from a normal cold and that really fever (38c+) and a dry cough and the things to look out for - not blocked nose, sore throat etc.

Fucking typically I've managed to have a headache/fatigue bug in the last week and immediately moving on to a snotty cold from my kids.


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## elbows (Mar 9, 2020)

Making assumptions based on the most common symptoms can be dangerous, and will lead to some people assuming they dont have Covid-19 when they do.

Looking at the percentages of cases with different symptoms is a useful way to pick up the nuances in this area.

For example, here is something from the WHO China team report:



> As of 20 February 2020 and based on 55924 laboratory confirmed cases, typical signs and symptoms include: fever (87.9%), dry cough (67.7%), fatigue (38.1%), sputum production (33.4%), shortness of breath (18.6%), sore throat (13.9%), headache (13.6%), myalgia or arthralgia (14.8%), chills (11.4%), nausea or vomiting (5.0%), nasal congestion (4.8%), diarrhea (3.7%), and hemoptysis (0.9%), and conjunctival congestion (0.8%).





			https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf
		


Conclusion: it is not safe to assume that symptoms such as sore throat and nasal congestion rule out Covid-19.


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## Jeremiah18.17 (Mar 9, 2020)

Useful information in this twitter thread on cleaning hands with soap and anti-viral effectiveness of gels from an Icelandic Chemistry professor working in Australia. (He was pleasantly surprised to find his thread had gone “viral” overnight!)


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## T & P (Mar 9, 2020)

This is not so much practical advice as a piece of reassurance, which the whole world could do with right now...









						Coronavirus: nine reasons to be reassured
					

Yes, Covid-19 is serious, but context is key and the world is well placed to deal with it




					www.theguardian.com


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## elbows (Mar 10, 2020)

The official UK dashboard is live:






						ArcGIS Dashboards
					

ArcGIS Dashboards




					www.arcgis.com


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## editor (Mar 11, 2020)

This thread has completely veered off topic. it was supposed to be where people could link to sensible, well researched content and be suitably informed. A chat on Mumset definitely does not fit that description,  and I'm not sure a one and a half hour long US radio chat show does either, even if there is an expert speaking.
I'm going to spin all the other stuff off into a general chat thread and would ask that people ONLY post up excellent resources from credible sources here.

Done: General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat


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## editor (Mar 11, 2020)

I'll move all them as well then.


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## bimble (Mar 12, 2020)

A question in case anyone knows: if I want to properly clean non waterproof phone and car streering wheel on regular basis how can I do that? ( I mean if I use them before being able to wash hands)


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## phillm (Mar 12, 2020)

Coronavirus: The fake health advice you should ignore
					

Garlic and taking hot baths are among the dodgy health advice for treating coronavirus being shared online.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Shechemite (Mar 12, 2020)

Slowing down the covid-19 outbreak: changing behaviour by understanding it - The BMJ
					

There are many strategies to change people’s transmission-related behaviours as a method for flattening the peak of the epidemic As we move into the “delay” phase of managing the covid-19 [...]More...




					blogs.bmj.com


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## ChrisD (Mar 12, 2020)

bimble said:


> A question in case anyone knows: if I want to properly clean non waterproof phone and car streering wheel on regular basis how can I do that? ( I mean if I use them before being able to wash hands)


This.... and doorknobs.  We are now washing hands when coming home but doorknob on downstairs loo must be suspect.   Any ideas?


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## Buddy Bradley (Mar 12, 2020)

ChrisD said:


> This.... and doorknobs.  We are now washing hands when coming home but doorknob on downstairs loo must be suspect.   Any ideas?


Anti-viral wipes. Dettol ones say they kill 99.99% of viruses.


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## two sheds (Mar 12, 2020)

Have we had this? And I hope it goes in this thread









						Coronavirus could live on some surfaces for up to three days, studies show
					

Researchers found that the virus remained viable on plastic and stainless steel for up to 72 hours




					www.independent.co.uk
				






> Coronavirus could be living on some surfaces, including plastic and stainless steel, for up to three days, a new study has found.
> 
> The report, published by US government scientists on Wednesday, also showed that the virus could survive in the air for several hours.
> 
> However, the findings do not prove anyone has caught the virus in this way, only that it may be theoretically possible, according to the researchers who carried out the study.



Gives times for various surfaces.





“We’re not by any way saying there is aerosolised transmission of the virus,” Dr Neeltje van Doremalen at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases,_ told The Associated Press._


Researchers found Covid-19 stays viable for long periods if time on a variety of surfaces and in the air, after using equipment to finely spray samples of the virus into the air and imitate what could happen is an infected person spread the virus by air by coughing or sneezing.


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2020)

If you can't find anti-viral wipes use soap and water. Washing up liquid is a soap.  soap will kill viruses on surfaces as well as on hands.


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## editor (Mar 12, 2020)

This might help






						Coronavirus Anxiety? Here's How to Keep It From Spiralling Out of Control
					

As the novel coronavirus proliferates on a global scale, worry and panic is on the rise.




					www.sciencealert.com


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## phillm (Mar 12, 2020)




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## danny la rouge (Mar 12, 2020)

“Anyone with a new persistent cough or high temperature is now advised to self-isolate for seven days”









						Coronavirus: People with fever or 'continuous' cough told to self-isolate
					

The PM warns families will continue to "lose loved ones before their time" as he announces new measures to combat coronavirus.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




What is a “new persistent cough”?

If it’s new at what point does it become persistent? And if it’s persistent presumably that means some degree of age.

I have a persistent cough, but it started before this announcement.


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## kazza007 (Mar 12, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> “Anyone with a new persistent cough or high temperature is now advised to self-isolate for seven days”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was asked at pm on radio 4. If it started before the outbreak it's not classified as new. I am interpreting persistent as 3-7 days.


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## kazza007 (Mar 12, 2020)

And obviously some medication can cause dry coughs, such as ACE-inhibitors for hypertension


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## Supine (Mar 12, 2020)

kazza007 said:


> And obviously some medication can cause dry coughs, such as ACE-inhibitors for hypertension



I have this. Not looking forward to long distance train journeys in the near future.


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2020)

quimcunx said:


> If you can't find anti-viral wipes use soap and water. Washing up liquid is a soap.  soap will kill viruses on surfaces as well as on hands.



I feel honour bound to point out this is not an expert opinion. There may be confounding factors that I dont know about that render soap helpless in the face of virus infested knobs. 

I noted this evening that my dettol claims to kill viruses.


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## phillm (Mar 12, 2020)




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## ChrisD (Mar 12, 2020)

quimcunx said:


> . There may be confounding factors that I dont know about that render soap helpless in the face of virus infested knobs.


Soap does make door knobs slippery... Must remember to keep mobile with me in case I get stuck in downstairs bathroom.


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## Cid (Mar 12, 2020)

quimcunx said:


> I feel honour bound to point out this is not an expert opinion. There may be confounding factors that I dont know about that render soap helpless in the face of virus infested knobs.
> 
> I noted this evening that my dettol claims to kill viruses.



Soap is good... In short because viruses rely on fatty structures, and soap is very good at breaking them down.


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2020)

Cid said:


> Soap is good... In short because viruses rely on fatty structures, and soap is very good at breaking them down.



Which is why I recommended it. I just didnt want anyone thinking my advice was coming from the editor of saponification monthly.


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## ska invita (Mar 13, 2020)

Impressive round up of seemingly everything you might need to know


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## editor (Mar 13, 2020)

The Albert pub in Brixton has put up hand sanitisers around the bar, which is a great idea, so I'm going to try and persuade other venues to do the same. I'm also going to persuade a piece asking clubs to temporarily get rid of the toilet attendants and replace their trays of trinkets and perfumes with piles and piles of soap because their presence tends to dissuade people from washing their hands or making them do it too quickly.

Maybe others could pass this advice on to bars in their area?

Just finished the article:  Brixton bars and clubs and coronavirus – two important ways to help keep them safe for customers


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## LDC (Mar 13, 2020)

First port of call is now 111 online if you have mild symptoms.






						Get help for your symptoms - NHS 111
					






					111.nhs.uk
				




DO NOT CALL 111 or 999, OR GO TO GP or A&E WITH MILD SYMPTOMS.





__





						Coronavirus (COVID-19): guidance and support
					

Find information on coronavirus, including guidance and support.




					www.gov.uk


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## Serge Forward (Mar 13, 2020)

Not sure if this is the right thread to post it but here is a a letter from a group of Italian scientists: COVID-19: un messaggio dagli AIRIcercatori a colleghi di altre nazioni // A message from Italian AIRIcerca scientists to international colleagues – AIRInforma


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## sihhi (Mar 13, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Impressive round up of seemingly everything you might need to know



Yes here's another if you recover there's the possibility of impaired lung function “They gasp if they walk a bit more quickly,”


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## UrbaneFox (Mar 13, 2020)

According to my friend who heard a doctor on LBC, if you suspect that you have Covid19 ...

cut


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## zora (Mar 13, 2020)

UrbaneFox said:


> ...


This has already been plentifully debunked, and does not belong on the sensible advice thread.


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## lizzieloo (Mar 14, 2020)

Get past the first bit, it's really informative.


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## UrbaneFox (Mar 14, 2020)

zora said:


> This has already been plentifully debunked, and does not belong on the sensible advice thread.


OK, sorry, There's so much stuff being posted, I haven't seen everything.

My friend is fairly sane, so...


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## bellaozzydog (Mar 14, 2020)

Probable wrong thread but how herd immunity works......key factor

IT INVOLVES IMMUNISATION/VACCINATION










						Herd immunity - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Doctor Carrot (Mar 14, 2020)

Sorry if this is the wrong place but I've been bricking it about catching the virus, as I'm sure others have to.  I found this interview of someone who has actually had it really helpful.









						Watch: Coronavirus-stricken ex-Royal College of GPs chair shares her experience
					

Dr. Clare Gerada, former chair of the Council of the Royal College of GPs tested positive for coronavirus and is in isolation.




					www.lbc.co.uk


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## gentlegreen (Mar 14, 2020)

That sounds no worse than what I had last summer - although in my case it was just the crazy 5 days of fever and almost no secondary symptoms.
It ultimately kept me off work for months and looking into ME/CFS - though it ultimately _seemed _to be connected to insulin resistance that I had been keeping at bay through daily exercise.
It was very weird and disconcerting for someone who's cycled to work and back for over 30 years and had never been off the bike for more than a week.


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## bimble (Mar 14, 2020)

This might not really fit the thread title but here's the governments instructions for how to self isolate. 
It asks things of people that sounds pretty much impossible if you live with other people especially children and do not have a vast mansion.





						[Withdrawn] COVID-19: guidance for households with possible coronavirus infection
					

Stay at home guidance for households with possible coronavirus (COVID-19) infection.




					www.gov.uk


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## brogdale (Mar 14, 2020)

Interesting LRB piece by clinician Rupert Beale:



> I received an email from a colleague in infectious diseases. His message was in no way reassuring. He made three main points:
> 
> 1. This is not business as usual. This will be different from what anyone living has ever experienced. The closest comparator is 1918 influenza.
> 
> ...


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## platinumsage (Mar 14, 2020)

If you wash your hands many times a day you may well find you get dermatitis. You can help stop this by:

Avoiding using very hot water - soap and comfortably warm water is just as good
Dabing your hands dry and while they are still damp use a petroleum-based moisturiser e.g. E45
Using alcohol sanitiser which is actually less likely to cause skin problems, so consider using that in between soap-washes (if supplies become plentiful again)
If doing stuff where frequent washing is needed, consider disposable gloves e.g. nitrile (lots on ebay, don't get the medical grade ones as they're needed elsewhere) you can then wash/sanitise your gloves frequently while saving your skin, although prolonged glove use can bring it's own skin problems.


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## Cid (Mar 15, 2020)

Both the lancet and bmj have resource pages on Coronavirus.

BMJ particularly good if you want opinion on gp/primary care best practices. Lancet has some early studies on transmission and various other interesting stuff.


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## editor (Mar 16, 2020)

Google have just posted up their page 











						COVID-19: How we’re continuing to help
					

The latest developments in our ongoing global response to COVID-19 and how we’re helping people stay safe, informed and connected.



					www.blog.google


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## editor (Mar 16, 2020)

Serge Forward said:


> Has this been on here yet?I’m an epidemiologist. When I heard about Britain’s ‘herd immunity’ coronavirus plan, I thought it was satire | William Hanage


I'm moving these posts to general chat because this is supposed to be a thread solely for listing resources to sensible advice and not opinion pieces.


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## SheilaNaGig (Mar 16, 2020)

Some supermarkets and banks will be opening early to allow elderly and more vulnerable people to shop in relative peace.  It’s  a bit shit that it’s before normal opening hours if you’re not an early bird by nature.










						British supermarkets and banks offer early slots for older customers
					

Iceland will be opening its doors for the first two hours each day to the elderly and vulnerable only




					www.theguardian.com


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## brogdale (Mar 16, 2020)

A Faisal Islam twitter thread (reasonably simplified) addressing the reason why UK Govt. strategy changed.

Includes this pretty disturbing account of mistaken/split assumptions of differing silos:


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## treelover (Mar 17, 2020)

> “Good advice from a nurse..
> 
> So what I have seen a lot of is recommendations for how to try to avoid getting coronavirus in the first place -- good hand washing, personal hygiene and social distancing -- but what I have NOT seen a lot of is advice for what happens if you actually get it, which many of us will. So as your friendly neighborhood Nurse let me make some suggestions.
> 
> ...




posted elsewhere, welcome to scrutinise


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## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2020)

There's a podcast called This Week In Virology by a pair of science professionals who are creepily enthusiastic about their subject and its been going since around 2006. He's also done a series of lectures. Now having hundreds of millions of views lol 😂

But really good when talking about the science of Sars Cov 2 and and what we actually know about its structure etc. He's got a lot of talks about other coronaviruses like colds, and aids, rabies etc too. It's very technical but kinda helps demystify it to an extent, although I had to stop listening tbh.


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## crossthebreeze (Mar 17, 2020)

*Useful links for disabled people - COVID_19-UK*
From a friend:


> Here's a master list of #Covidー19uk mutual aid resources for Disabled people: http://tinyurl.com/DPsCovidList
> It includes template letters/policy for PAs & carers, survival guides, support groups and signposting.
> This has been created because the Government are not giving disabled people the specific advice or support we need, so we disabled people have to help one another and prepare for ourselves.
> All documents in the list are personal suggestions and created by volunteers, not experts (except in our own lives) so we cannot be sure how effective they will be for you.
> ...


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## crossthebreeze (Mar 17, 2020)

*Manchester Solfed - Coronavirus - Your rights to sick pay and wages*


> *Manchester Solfed*
> CORONAVIRUS: YOUR RIGHTS TO SICK PAY AND WAGES
> The government is full of talk about “supporting each other” but is doing little to compensate workers who are forced to take time off work due to the coronavirus. The message seems to be “do the right thing” and self-isolate but do not expect any financial support from us. Below we set out your rights to sick pay and wages when having to take time off work due to the coronavirus epidemic.
> The information below is based on things as they currently stand on the 15th March 2020.
> ...


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## Buddy Bradley (Mar 17, 2020)

Useful snippet of information from the Deputy CSO on BBC news this morning about the "entire household isolation for 14 days" rule - if someone else in the house develops symptoms later on, you don't have to 'reset' the 14-day counter. After 14 days, everyone can leave the house again, apart from the symptomatic person who should remain in isolation for 7 days after they first showed symptoms.


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## platinumsage (Mar 17, 2020)

List of "underlying health conditions": Guidance on social distancing for everyone in the UK and protecting older people and vulnerable adults

Most importantly, the following are at particular risk and should be contact directly by the NHS within the next week:

    People who have received an organ transplant and remain on ongoing immunosuppression medication
    People with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy or radiotherapy
    People with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia who are at any stage of treatment
    People with severe chest conditions such as cystic fibrosis or severe asthma (requiring hospital admissions or courses of steroid tablets)
    People with severe diseases of body systems, such as severe kidney disease (dialysis)


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## bimble (Mar 17, 2020)

No mention in that UK gov guidance of heightened risk for people on blood thinning medication, whilst other sources (and countries ) do include that as a significant vulnerability factor. That feels disconcerting and confusing (my partner needs and is on them).


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## hash tag (Mar 17, 2020)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Sorry if this is the wrong place but I've been bricking it about catching the virus, as I'm sure others have to.  I found this interview of someone who has actually had it really helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry for this, but it might help some. 20.00 for the next few days LBC are hosting a different phone in every day with a medical expert. Yesterday was a viral biologist. Today or tomorrow will be a GP.




__





						LBC
					

Talk radio for the UK, letting you have your say on the big issues of the day and affecting London and the UK, with breaking news and opinion.




					www.lbc.co.uk


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## bemused (Mar 17, 2020)

My cancer nurse has told me that Superdrug is keeping hand sanitizer for cancer patients you just need to ask for it.


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## SheilaNaGig (Mar 17, 2020)

treelover said:


> posted elsewhere, welcome to scrutinise




There is some confusion and uncertainty about taking OTC  antiinflammatories to suppress the fever. 

Recent stories from France suggest that ibuprofen may make symptoms worse for some people with C-19.









						Anti-inflammatories may aggravate Covid-19, France advises
					

French minister says patients should take paracetamol rather than ibuprofen or cortisone




					www.theguardian.com
				





It’s far room soon for any in depth studies to have been done, so to some extent we’re being forced to take on board anecdotal evidence like this story from France.

Paracetamol is being suggested in preference to ibuprofen because of the concerns about antiinflammatories.

However, there is also some evidence that paracetamol and aspirin may prolong symptoms and increase viral shedding, which means potentially increased contagiousness within the household. 









						Popping pills for flu fever might make things worse
					

Common medications that ease the pain and fever of flu might be responsible for as many as 2000 deaths a year




					www.newscientist.com
				





Again, we don’t know if these finding apply to the current coronavirus.


This is not to say don’t take these medicines. But since this outbreak is potentially so serious for some people, it’s worth knowing these concerns so that we can make pragmatic sensible 

There are other old fashioned ways to manage a fever. Lots of easily available herbs are anti-pyretics and diophoretics. If anyone wants suggestions for herbal approaches to this virus please pm me.


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## platinumsage (Mar 17, 2020)

NHS now advising against taking ibuprofen: Stay at home advice - NHS

"There is currently no strong evidence that ibuprofen can make coronavirus (COVID-19) worse. But until we have more information, take paracetamol to treat the symptoms of coronavirus, unless your doctor has told you paracetamol is not suitable for you. If you are already taking ibuprofen or another non-steroidal anti-inflammatory (NSAID) on the advice of a doctor, do not stop taking it without checking first. "


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## Aladdin (Mar 17, 2020)

Hope its ok to post this here. 
I think this elderly couple are so calm explaining what has happened to them.


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## gentlegreen (Mar 17, 2020)

I think he's into that forehead-tapping thing ...


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## Buddy Bradley (Mar 17, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> NHS now advising against taking ibuprofen: Stay at home advice - NHS


WHO too: WHO reiterates call for coronavirus patients not to take ibuprofen


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## editor (Mar 17, 2020)

This is pretty good. 



> Carrington says: “As far as possible, try to maintain as much of a routine as you can. Wake up and go to bed at healthy times to ensure you get enough sleep.”
> 
> Although you want to maintain a routine, Dr Lucy Atcheson does warn against just falling into a cycle of sleeping, working, eating, and repeating: “Find some time to still have value to your day, life cannot be just eating and sleeping. Do something fun for yourself (that isn’t just Netflix).
> 
> “I’m seeing a lot of people who are self isolating are losing their optimism for the future, they are using time for self reflecting and picking apart everything that is wrong with their life: their job, their relationship, their friendships. When we’re overwhelmed by a mundane life, it can quickly draw out the joy, so make fun for yourself.”











						How to manage your mental health while working from home
					

Covid: How to manage your mental health while working from home




					www.independent.co.uk


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## zora (Mar 18, 2020)

I was in two minds about posting this here, because of the language barrier, but I guess we have got at least a few German speakers amongst us. All episodes are also available as downloadable scripts, so could potentially be put through Google translate.

A top German virologist, Christian Drosten, has been doing daily podcasts in conversation with a journalist for the last two weeks, bringing the latest scientific findings, background information and public health info to the general public, and answering some of the questions that are emerging among the listeners as situations unfolds.  

It is an excellent resource; and he manages to strike the perfect balance between making the material accessible to lay people without oversimplification.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 18, 2020)

I’m concerned by interpretations I see creeping into reports. Not just the ways those can be interpreted by the reader, but also the way the writer seems to have misunderstood.

In the Telegraph I saw “if you think you have Coronavirus you should self-isolate for...”.  No. Stop there.  If you have one of these symptoms you should self-isolate: persistent cough or fever. Full stop. You aren’t required to diagnose, but to accept cautious practise.

On the BBC I heard Laura Foster say “ if you have a runny nose, that isn’t Coronavirus”. No. A runny nose is *not* evidence you don’t have Coronavirus. According to WHO some people do experience a runny nose. It’s just not a particularly common symptom.

I read in the Mirror “this is what Coronavirus feels like”.  No, it’s what Coronavirus felt like for _that_ person. Different people have different severity of symptoms.

I saw an online piece “hear what a proper Coronavirus cough sounds like”. No. Hear what _this_ person’s cough sounds like. People should not being using that comparison to rule out Coronavirus in themselves.

There are different degrees of severity. There is a list of symptoms you may or may not get. You are not a health professional. You can’t diagnose yourself.

Journalists should be more careful than ever not to mislead or cause confusion. They’re not faring well so far.


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## Azrael (Mar 18, 2020)

As I noted in another thread, the Mayor of Miami has tested positive for Covid-19: his only symptoms? Aches and a runny nose. This is spectacularly irresponsibility reporting from the BBC, and just emphasizes the urgency of getting mass testing launched ASAP.


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## SheilaNaGig (Mar 19, 2020)

I want to clarify something I've been posting and also add some information.

I've said in various places a couple of time in this sprawling forum that there have been reports from China that some survivors have been shedding the virus for 37 days after recovery.

This is not correct. The Lancet report shows that people who have recovered from the virus were viral shedding for 37 days, with measures starting from the point of diagnosis. So not 37 days after recovery, 37 days from point of diagnosis. So thats about 7 days after recovery. However, I'm unclear what point "recovery" was pinpointed. I think it means the point at which they were no longer in ICU, no longer needing respirator support.

Also, as a separate thing, this confusing and worrying story about people testing positive after apparently recovering for the virus and testing negative. It's happened enough for it to cause concern.

I've just received this email from a colleague, which hopefully throws a little light on things, if not solving the issue:

There have been suggestions that people can get reinfected by the
SARS-CoV-2 after recovery.  Here is some hopeful evidence from a small
study of macaques that found the animals did not develop a coronavirus
infection the second time they were exposed. The study found that the
animals developed antibodies that presumably fended off the second
exposure.  Also, a couple of things of note:

1. Peak coronavirus titres occurred after just 3 days after exposure,
not over a longer period as has been suggested might be the case in humans;

2. After the infection ran its course (and before a second exposure),
there was no coronavirus present, which is significant because it has
been reported that recovered patients can still have coronavirus present
and can still infect others. 

This study is very small, and the report has not been reviewed yet.  And
of course what happens to macaques may not be the same what happens to
people. 

Here is a readable summary:

Monkeys Develop Protective Antibodies to SARS-CoV-2

and here is the preprint:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.13.990226v1.full.pdf



The least we can glean from this is that hard core studies are being conducted at the forefront of this pandemic.

(with thanks and blessings to the macaques)


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2020)

Jenrick announces coronavirus law to ban eviction of tenants
					

Emergency legislation will protect renters for three months, says housing secretary




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## krink (Mar 19, 2020)

started my own thread, soz for interuption.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 20, 2020)

brilliant, thanks bemused, will try later but those dreadful queues


----------



## bemused (Mar 20, 2020)

hash tag said:


> brilliant, thanks bemused, will try later but those dreadful queues



My McMillian nurse told me this.


----------



## hegley (Mar 21, 2020)

Thought this graphic was quite useful for isolation times:


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 21, 2020)




----------



## two sheds (Mar 21, 2020)

sobering video at end (7:40 on)


----------



## platinumsage (Mar 21, 2020)

Loss of smell might be a sign of infection, even in the absence of other common symptoms:


----------



## elbows (Mar 21, 2020)

More on the loss of smell. There’s An Unexpected Loss Of Smell And Taste In Coronavirus Patients


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Mar 21, 2020)

That’s peculiar and interesting.



Thank you for that elbows 

Thank you for all that you’re doing here. It can’t  be easy to be immersed in it (apparently) 24/7.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Mar 21, 2020)

That suggests that the virus invades and replicates not only in the deeper respiratory system. That’s really bad. It suggests greater ability /opportunity for genetic mutation, but also explains why it seems stable (doesn’t need to mutate and change in order to infect and replicate.)

We have reports that fecal matter and blood show evidence of infection. With this symptomology added to that, it looks like this virus could well be systemic. Which makes sense given what (little) we know/assume about how it developed the ability to jump to humans.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2020)




----------



## dilute micro (Mar 22, 2020)

Something like this may have been posted already but...










						Here’s how long the coronavirus will last on surfaces, and how to disinfect those surfaces.
					

"Never mix household bleach with ammonia or any other cleanser," CDC says.




					www.livescience.com
				





I've used this for training where I work.  It's good to know.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2020)

Informative guide here  









						You asked, we’re answering: Your top questions about Covid-19 and vaccines
					

CNN readers ask sharp questions about coronavirus every day. We’re answering some of the most popular questions and busting myths with statistics and facts.




					edition.cnn.com


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2020)

COVID-19: guidance for people whose immune system means they are at higher risk
					

Guidance for people aged 12 and over whose immune system means they are at higher risk of serious illness if they become infected with coronavirus (COVID-19).




					www.gov.uk


----------



## weltweit (Mar 24, 2020)

This seems to be the central Government page on Covid-19 






						Coronavirus (COVID-19): guidance and support
					

Find information on coronavirus, including guidance and support.




					www.gov.uk
				




I have just been hunting for the proposal to pay 80% of employee salaries which I recall being announced by the chancellor but - it might be me - I can't find it.


----------



## phillm (Mar 24, 2020)

Volunteering Portal.

Find Your Local Group 

Just signed up for Bexley and got this encouraging email. 

*Thank you for your offer of support!
*
It’s been wonderful to see how many people are keen to get involved and help people during this difficult and stressful time. We’ve had over 500 volunteers in the door in just a few days!

While we want to get you all working as soon as possible, we need to make sure we’re getting this right. Our Volunteer Hub project a longer-term project of support which will be there for people throughout this crisis, rather than an immediate short-term response. We’re building a lot of this from the ground up and want to make sure we’ve got everything in place before we bring you all in. We’re doing our best to remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

It’s also been an incredibly hard week for many of Bexley’s charities. They have been overwhelmed with making logistical changes and finding ways to deliver their services remotely, so while we work to support them it may take a bit longer than we thought for us to direct you to where you are needed. Please do bear with us. We’ll keep you all updated on our plans as they develop.

In the meantime, please have a thorough read of our volunteering welcome document attached. It should lay out some key details on how this will work as well as very important information on safeguarding vulnerable adults.

You can also take a look at the options below to help people in the immediate short term:
Donating to your local Food Bank
Joining Next Door to respond to local requests for help
Taking a look at local mutual aid groups

On behalf of all our local charities and community groups, we’re so thankful for your help and your patience.

We’ll be in touch soon,


The Team at BVSC


----------



## campanula (Mar 24, 2020)

seems to be nowt in my area (Cambridge) at least going through this volunteer portal


----------



## crossthebreeze (Mar 24, 2020)

campanula said:


> seems to be nowt in my area (Cambridge) at least going through this volunteer portal


This list shows a mutual aid group in Cambridgeshire


----------



## treelover (Mar 24, 2020)

can you use an old mask that has been in the cupboard, my cleaner is coming soon, i have the flu, if not C19, and want to protect her.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 24, 2020)

treelover said:


> can you use an old mask that has been in the cupboard, my cleaner is coming soon, i have the flu, if not C19, and want to protect her.



If you do have it, the virus is going to be all over your place isn't it?


----------



## magneze (Mar 24, 2020)

Volunteer to help those most in need with CovidCall
					

Can you help those in self-isolation? Sign up today to help your community.




					covidcall.org


----------



## weltweit (Mar 25, 2020)

This looks interesting, sharing your unused computer power to help in the search for a solution to covid-19, they want to get 1,000,000 computers linked up and have so far reached 474 PetaFlops. 

Apparently the worlds fastest super computer is only 148 PetaFlops!





__





						Front Page - Folding@home
					






					foldingathome.org


----------



## gentlegreen (Mar 25, 2020)

weltweit said:


> This looks interesting, sharing your unused computer power to help in the search for a solution to covid-19, they want to get 1,000,000 computers linked up and have so far reached 474 PetaFlops.
> 
> Apparently the worlds fastest super computer is only 148 PetaFlops!
> 
> ...


I'll take a punt on that, but it's contingent on my PC not overheating or the creaky PSU fan not keeping me awake.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 25, 2020)

magneze said:


> Volunteer to help those most in need with CovidCall
> 
> 
> Can you help those in self-isolation? Sign up today to help your community.
> ...


Looks good. Nothing in my area and although I am happy to give my time am not sure I want to 'create a new community' and can't see what that would entail anyway/ 

Volunteer to help those most in need with CovidCall 



> We're a group of volunteers. We set up Covid Community Ltd, a volunteer run Community Interest Company. It's funded entirely from donations and takes no profit.





> We're only collecting donations to keep this service running! It *costs around 20p per phonecall* (although this varies with the length of the call!) because *we want to keep it free for people* calling the number. All donations go towards the hosting costs of the service.




Can't see this being promoted on social media?


----------



## gentlegreen (Mar 25, 2020)

My poor old PC couldn't cope with protein folding - even set to the lowest commitment level...
I'm at the stage where I have to shut everything down to stream HD video ...


----------



## weltweit (Mar 26, 2020)

gentlegreen said:


> My poor old PC couldn't cope with protein folding - even set to the lowest commitment level...
> I'm at the stage where I have to shut everything down to stream HD video ...


I am not sure about mine also, it is quite ancient. I might have a try though, does it require a reliable broadband connection? Because at the moment I don't have one of those either!! ?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 26, 2020)

are masks overkill? seeing people wearing them a lot, but not so many wearing gloves, which seems a bit the wrong way round


----------



## Gimigimi (Mar 27, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> are masks overkill? seeing people wearing them a lot, but not so many wearing gloves, which seems a bit the wrong way round


I've been wearing a bandana over my nose + mouth when I have to go out - don't have any real masks but since the virus is spread through aerosols I figured any sort of barrier was better than nothing, and I saw some health organizations concur. I wear gloves sometimes but it seems like unless you're constantly throwing gloves away and wearing new pairs you'd still be contaminating whatever you touch, and bare hands are easier to wash than gloves, so I'm just trying to remember to wash my hands a lot and not touch my face. It's possible to disinfect your hands but not your respiratory tract.


----------



## elbows (Mar 28, 2020)

I have mentioned faecal oral route a few times before, but I dont think it ever got much emphasis in UK public health advice. I note that according to NERVTAG minutes of 3rd February it should have, so I am going to post what they said here.



> PH summarised that NERVTAG agrees that hand washing promotion is recommended and this is extrapolated from other respiratory viruses. NERVTAG acknowledges that there have been cases where diarrhoea is present and therefore faecal oral route is a potential  route of transmission. Given that and the available information, NERVTAG gives a recommendation of increased hand hygiene in general and regularly and after visiting the toilet.



From Box

NERVTAG = New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2020)

Useful link: Get coronavirus support as an extremely vulnerable person


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Mar 28, 2020)

The loss of taste and smell as an early symptom.

This is a hypothesis, but there’s no harm in it so:

Zinc deficiency causes loss of smell and taste.

Zinc is essential for the immune system to function well.

Early infection causes the immune system to power up and use extra zinc.

The increased efforts of the immune system depletes zinc.

Taste and smell are affected.

So, it makes sense to top up on zinc.

Meat
Eggs
Legumes/pulses
Seafood
Nuts
Seeds


----------



## Azrael (Mar 29, 2020)

Gimigimi said:


> I've been wearing a bandana over my nose + mouth when I have to go out - don't have any real masks but since the virus is spread through aerosols I figured any sort of barrier was better than nothing, and I saw some health organizations concur. I wear gloves sometimes but it seems like unless you're constantly throwing gloves away and wearing new pairs you'd still be contaminating whatever you touch, and bare hands are easier to wash than gloves, so I'm just trying to remember to wash my hands a lot and not touch my face. It's possible to disinfect your hands but not your respiratory tract.


Still under self-imposed quarantine (following WHO advice, not govt's), but have run up a bleach spray that's easy to use on variety of surfaces, which makes life a lot easier. Have developed dermatitis from all the handwashing, so mixing in hand gel now and then (over 70% alcohol, so should do the job, and when I've run through 'em all, have bottle of surgical spirit to rustle up my own). As ever, none of this is advice, just what I've been doing.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 29, 2020)

Lairis said:


> Thanks for sharing. I've also read that liquids should contain at least 70% alcohol in order to do the job.



60 to 80% apparently, with 70% being middle figure.


----------



## Anju (Mar 30, 2020)

Just seen a Facebook post advising a vulnerable person asking about home delivery that delivery drivers would by now have gained immunity. Sounds wrong to me  but wanted to check before commenting.


----------



## prunus (Mar 30, 2020)

Anju said:


> Just seen a Facebook post advising a vulnerable person asking about home delivery that delivery drivers would by now have gained immunity. Sounds wrong to me  but wanted to check before commenting.



Yes that’s wrong.

Here though is a useful article from the Washington Post on this:



> _Joseph G. Allen is an assistant professor of exposure and assessment science and director of the Healthy Buildings Program at Harvard University’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health._
> 
> A recent study in the New England Journal of Medicine is making people think twice about how they might be exposed to covid-19 if they open a box delivered by UPS, touch packages at the grocery store or accept food delivery.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anju (Mar 30, 2020)

prunus said:


> Yes that’s wrong.
> 
> Here though is a useful article from the Washington Post on this:



Thanks, Can't believe people are dishing out dangerous advice to vulnerable people. Well I can but FFS.


----------



## zahir (Mar 30, 2020)

Link with advice that’s claims to be from John Hopkins University, but I’ve seen the source questioned elsewhere. Does anyone know if the information in this looks accurate?









						Covid-19 is not a living organism! | Vaalweekblad
					

Johns Hopkins University share this summary to avoid contagion:




					vaalweekblad.com


----------



## zahir (Mar 30, 2020)

.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 30, 2020)

prunus said:


> Yes that’s wrong.
> 
> Here though is a useful article from the Washington Post on this:





zahir said:


> .



Both really useful, thanks


----------



## zahir (Mar 30, 2020)

two sheds said:


> Both really useful, thanks


I’m not sure about the link I posted now though. It was one that was sent to me and it seems to be going around on facebook. It isn’t clear where it originally comes from and I couldn’t really say if everything in it is accurate.


----------



## prunus (Mar 30, 2020)

zahir said:


> Link with advice that’s claims to be from John Hopkins University, but I’ve seen the source questioned elsewhere. Does anyone know if the information in this looks accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It’s a mixture of accuracies and half-truths, with a couple of bits of huh? (“it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.”). There’s nothing in there actually detrimental that I can see, but it’s not 100% accurate. If that came from Johns Hopkins I’m a monkey’s uncle.


----------



## zahir (Mar 30, 2020)

Thanks. I should have stopped to think before posting it.


----------



## David Clapson (Mar 30, 2020)

I have a proper P3 respirator, unworn. I'm trying to decide whether to give it to someone who really needs it. I'm not sure I do really. It's easy to keep a safe distance from people when food shopping or going for a walk. The only thing is, I have a flatmate who is WFH. And I have ME, which means I might be badly affected by Covid. Might...nobody knows. Even so, I can't see how this mask would be really helpful.  If the flatmate gets symptoms, maybe one of us could wear the mask to reduce the chance of me getting infected...but realistically it seems inevitable that I'd pick it up from shared surfaces. What does the panel think?









						GVS SPR501 Half Mask Respirator P3
					

Order online at Screwfix.com. Protects against fine dusts such as silica, asbestos and wood. Large central exhalation valve allows for a reduction in breathing resistance and keeps moisture build-up to a minimum. Lightweight for all-day comfort and ultra compact, giving less restriction to...



					www.screwfix.com


----------



## two sheds (Mar 30, 2020)

zahir said:


> I’m not sure about the link I posted now though. It was one that was sent to me and it seems to be going around on facebook. It isn’t clear where it originally comes from and I couldn’t really say if everything in it is accurate.



I've seen a lot of the advice elsewhere - ta for the alert though if it's not totally accurate.


----------



## Cid (Mar 30, 2020)

David Clapson said:


> I have a proper P3 respirator, unworn. I'm trying to decide whether to give it to someone who really needs it. I'm not sure I do really. It's easy to keep a safe distance from people when food shopping or going for a walk. The only thing is, I have a flatmate who is WFH. And I have ME, which means I might be badly affected by Covid. Might...nobody knows. Even so, I can't see how this mask would be really helpful.  If the flatmate gets symptoms, maybe one of us could wear the mask to reduce the chance of me getting infected...but realistically it seems inevitable that I'd pick it up from shared surfaces. What does the panel think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think once it's in your living environment, transmission is basically inevitable. There are just too many potential sources of contamination... Even if they self isolated in their room, presumably they'd still want to use the loo. Best to have a talk with your flatmate and make sure they're aware you might be vulnerable, and take care when out accordingly. I also wouldn't go out of your way to find someone to give it to, it's just another risk to both you and them.

WHO guidance on masks:


If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly.
Putting on a mask:


Before putting on a mask, clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
Cover mouth and nose with mask and make sure there are no gaps between your face and the mask.
Avoid touching the mask while using it; if you do, clean your hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
Replace the mask with a new one as soon as it is damp and do not re-use single-use masks.
To remove the mask: remove it from behind (do not touch the front of mask); discard immediately in a closed bin; clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
The current consensus does seem to be that they have a place, but more in terms of stopping you spreading the disease than stopping you getting it. In addition to what they say above I do kind of feel that a lot of people giving advice on masks don't actually wear them. Or don't have beards, or irritable faces. They're not very comfortable things and there's a bit of an urge to fiddle, scratch etc. Have to be aware of that.

Personal opinion: I think they might become more common here if we have several epidemic stages. They make sense if you start allowing access to public transport again, especially if used widely enough that asymptomatic people are wearing them... I realise that contradicts the above advice a bit, hence personal opinion.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Mar 31, 2020)

zahir said:


> Link with advice that’s claims to be from John Hopkins University, but I’ve seen the source questioned elsewhere. Does anyone know if the information in this looks accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As others have said...

I doubt that’s from John Hopkins. JH is a fairly large university with a good reputation. That article doesn’t say which department supposedly generated it. And the writing has plenty of grammatical errors, which a reputable organisation would do their best to avoid.

There’s nothing harmful in it but it’s just kinda shonky .

All viruses are sort of neither living nor dead. They sort of straddle the boundary line where inanimate matter and “life” meet. There are some pretty basic definitions of “living organism” and viruses comply with those most basic tenets.  But as soon as you start adding in any further detail, viruses suddenly don’t conform to definitions of “living”.

They’re all like this, not just this coronavirus. So that headline is like saying “Orange juice is a wet fluid!” It’s just not news.

All viruses are these weird limnal entities. That’s what makes them viruses and not something else.









						Are viruses alive?
					

Viruses seem to be more than more than just simple, inert bundles of genetic material – but do they count as living organisms?




					www.newscientist.com
				












						Are viruses alive?
					






					microbiologysociety.org
				






And they drive evolution. Pandemics like this one are part of our evolutionary development.









						Viruses revealed to be a major driver of human evolution: Study tracking protein adaptation over millions of years yields insights relevant to fighting today's viruses
					

The constant battle between pathogens and their hosts has long been recognized as a key driver of evolution, but until now scientists have not had the tools to look at these patterns globally across species and genomes. In a new study, researchers apply big-data analysis to reveal the full...



					www.sciencedaily.com


----------



## Azrael (Mar 31, 2020)

Cid said:


> I think once it's in your living environment, transmission is basically inevitable. There are just too many potential sources of contamination... Even if they self isolated in their room, presumably they'd still want to use the loo. Best to have a talk with your flatmate and make sure they're aware you might be vulnerable, and take care when out accordingly. I also wouldn't go out of your way to find someone to give it to, it's just another risk to both you and them.
> 
> WHO guidance on masks:
> 
> ...


No transmission here after 19 days following appearance of symptoms (must've got lucky while asymptomatic). Have kept to separate rooms at all times, washed loo down with bleach solution, washed any shared surfaces down with bleach after use, ditto taps, door handles & switches. Separate towels, toothbrush head soaked in bleach solution in jar, wiped down shower and sink with bleach after use. Bleach obsession aside, video calls are great, even if you do feel like you're reenacting an _IT Crowd_ sketch.


----------



## Cid (Mar 31, 2020)

Azrael said:


> No transmission here after 19 days following appearance of symptoms (must've got lucky while asymptomatic). Have kept to separate rooms at all times, washed loo down with bleach solution, washed any shared surfaces down with bleach after use, ditto taps, door handles & switches. Separate towels, toothbrush head soaked in bleach solution in jar, wiped down shower and sink with bleach after use. Bleach obsession aside, video calls are great, even if you do feel like you're reenacting an _IT Crowd_ sketch.



Have you or anyone else in the house been tested?


----------



## Azrael (Mar 31, 2020)

Cid said:


> Have you or anyone else in the house been tested?


Nope, thanks for reminding me to always add disclaimer.  (Several earlier in thread.) Course and symptoms matched C-19 very closely (including, unfortunately, GI symptoms), but until confirmed, always leave open the possibility it could be something else.


----------



## David Clapson (Mar 31, 2020)

Cid said:


> I think once it's in your living environment, transmission is basically inevitable. There are just too many potential sources of contamination... Even if they self isolated in their room, presumably they'd still want to use the loo. Best to have a talk with your flatmate and make sure they're aware you might be vulnerable, and take care when out accordingly. I also wouldn't go out of your way to find someone to give it to, it's just another risk to both you and them.
> 
> WHO guidance on masks:
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Cid. I'm going to give it to my pharmacist. I originally bought two and gave the other one to his assistant the other day, so I know he would be keen to have this one.  As for public transport, I'll carry on using my motorbike. It must be impossible to get infected while motorcycling in a full face helmet.


----------



## gentlegreen (Mar 31, 2020)

Be careful with what extra things you throw down the loo ....


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 2, 2020)

How China’s “Bat Woman” Hunted Down Viruses from SARS to the New Coronavirus i hope its OK to post this here but this is cool. She sounds amazing.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 3, 2020)

> You could tie yourself in knots gaming out the various scenarios that might pose a risk outdoors, but Marr recommends a simple technique. “When I go out now, I imagine that everyone is smoking, and I pick my path to get the least exposure to that smoke,” she told me. If that’s the case, I asked her, is it irrational to hold your breath when another person walks past you and you don’t have enough space to move away? “It’s not irrational; I do that myself,” she said. “I don’t know if it makes a difference, but in theory it could. It’s like when you walk through a cigarette plume.”











						Everyone Thinks They’re Right About Masks
					

How the coronavirus travels through the air has become one of the most divisive debates in this pandemic.




					www.theatlantic.com
				




See also:









						Is the coronavirus airborne? Experts can’t agree
					

The World Health Organization says the evidence is not compelling, but scientists warn that gathering sufficient data could take years and cost lives.




					www.nature.com


----------



## zahir (Apr 3, 2020)

The view from an expert in Korea. It gives a very clear explanation of the issues and how things are being handled in Korea. He also makes the argument for wearing masks.


----------



## RTWL (Apr 5, 2020)

Some tips for travellers/boaties from good old FFT .









						COVID-19: Guidance for supporting people living on Traveller sites, unauthorised encampments and canal boats - Friends, Families and Travellers
					

Background This guidance will assist local authorities, Traveller site managers and organisations managing canals and waterways in addressing coronavirus (COVID-19) within home settings for people living on unauthorised encampments, people living on Traveller sites and people … COVID-19...




					www.gypsy-traveller.org
				




They are currently pressuring the bastard government for some kind of clarity also.



> *“COVID-19 – Gypsy, Traveller and Boater communities*
> 
> Dear Secretaries of State,
> 
> ...


_

I hope they are going to stop evictions for us _


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 6, 2020)

So where has everyone been getting their N95s from? Or surgical masks?


----------



## quimcunx (Apr 6, 2020)

They're mostly not, I don't think.  Lots of videos on how to make masks.   I was just thinking to start a thread on mask making.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 6, 2020)

Breathing technique for if you have the virus


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Apr 6, 2020)

Can I just point out though that the doctor in this video is using just the very top of his lung to demonstrate the "deep" breathing. He's not deep breathing, he's big breathing.

At 2'54" he admits to feeling dizzy after doing the breathing as he demonstrates it. Because he's not really taking sufficient air into the depths of his lungs.

Please, I urge and encourage everyone to try out some yoga breathing. Very easy to find plenty of videos on the internet. Search for beginners videos to avoid the more specialised stuff. Don't be daunted by the plethora of options, just choose a video that appeals to you and get started. If you don't like that one, try another.

Yoga is not so much about stretching as it is about the breathe. Yoga deepens the breathe, it uses the bottom of the lungs, the back of the lungs, which is what the doctor in the video is saying is needed if we get the virus. Yoga breathing helps us to use the diaphragm to draw breathe in.

Most of us tend to expand the lungs by opening up the ribs and the top of the chest. This only uses a small part of the lungs. Yoga breathing moves the diaphragm downward, so the air is drawn in like fluid into a syringe. Moving the diaphragm downwards pulls the lungs down, which creates negative pressure, which draws breathe in and down. 

It's not "woo" it's physiology. A lot of us will find it tricky to learn how to do yoga breathing,m because we've spent most of our lives not using the diaphragm to breathe. Keep at it. There's a "click" moment when you're suddenly breathing differently and then it gets much easier. Don't worry if you find yourself feeling tearful or emotional in some other way. We often move around our emotions with the breathe, avoiding deep breathing because that's how we stop ourselves from crying /insert any other emotional expression, including laughing.


----------



## magneze (Apr 6, 2020)

Just breathe normally?


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Apr 6, 2020)

magneze said:


> Just breathe normally?




Or/and, you could learn to do some yoga breathing so that you can maximise your lung capacity so that if you catch C-19 you've got something that might help you a bit. Like what that doctor and nurse were suggesting in that video.


----------



## nogojones (Apr 6, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Can I just point out though that the doctor in this video is using just the very top of his lung to demonstrate the "deep" breathing. He's not deep breathing, he's big breathing.
> 
> At 2'54" he admits to feeling dizzy after doing the breathing as he demonstrates it. Because he's not really taking sufficient air into the depths of his lungs.
> 
> ...


I can't believe I actually agree with most of this. Me chakra's must be properly lined up with my third eye today 🙏


----------



## wayward bob (Apr 7, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Yoga is not so much about stretching as it is about the breathe. Yoga deepens the breathe, it uses the bottom of the lungs, the back of the lungs, which is what the doctor in the video is saying is needed if we get the virus. Yoga breathing helps us to use the diaphragm to draw breathe in.
> 
> Most of us tend to expand the lungs by opening up the ribs and the top of the chest. This only uses a small part of the lungs. Yoga breathing moves the diaphragm downward, so the air is drawn in like fluid into a syringe. Moving the diaphragm downwards pulls the lungs down, which creates negative pressure, which draws breathe in and down.
> 
> It's not "woo" it's physiology.


i firmly believe this adaptable, sustained, controlled breathing is a huge part of what makes swimming and running and singing such beneficial things for my all-around health.

also finding a rhythm you can sustain. part of some of the argy-bargy about who slows down for who when you're exercising (and the immediate need for speed lanes on all formerly predominantly pedestrian thoroughfares ) - getting into your own particular stride and a regular breath pattern is the thing that puts you in the zone, which is where a lot of the mental benefits kick in ime.


----------



## HalloweenJack (Apr 8, 2020)

Wim Hof Method.
                            Lots on YouTube


----------



## two sheds (Apr 8, 2020)

any scientifically demonstrated results before I go sit on an ice floe?


----------



## RTWL (Apr 9, 2020)

Still, no reply to FFTs info request from the government 

so to Europe :



> *Covid-19: FFT raise Government’s lack of support for Travellers with Council of Europe*
> April 8, 2020
> Today, Friends Families and Travellers wrote to Dunja Mijatovic, Commissioner for Human Rights at the Council of Europe to voice concerns about the lack of UK Government support for Gypsies, Roma and Travellers during the coronavirus pandemic (Covid-19).
> The letter urges the Commissioner for Human Rights to put pressure on the UK Government. The content of the letter can be found below:
> ...


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## treelover (Apr 9, 2020)

been receiving regular food parcels, but hear you are meant to wash foodstuffs down, how on earth do you that? with some items they will go soggy, taste of soap.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 9, 2020)

wouldn't bother if you were going to cook it


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## 2hats (Apr 9, 2020)

treelover said:


> been receiving regular food parcels, but hear you are meant to wash foodstuffs down, how on earth do you that? with some items they will go soggy, taste of soap.


Wash fruit and veg as you would (should) normally do. Processed foodstuffs, if they (or packaging) are not effectively impervious to water, then set them to one side for three days.


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## SheilaNaGig (Apr 10, 2020)

treelover said:


> been receiving regular food parcels, but hear you are meant to wash foodstuffs down, how on earth do you that? with some items they will go soggy, taste of soap.




This is what I do:

Come indoors and set down my bags at the door, take off shoes and outdoor clobber and drop it at the door

Wash hands, get changed into indoor clobber

Put on a pair of rubber washing up gloves and carry shopping through to the kitchen, set the bag on the floor by the sink

Empty the bag onto the side by the sink

Anything where the outer wrapping can be just discarded, the wrapping goes straight into the bin/recycling. I do this without touching the inner wrapping. Set it down far away, out of the way.

Any fresh fruit or veg gets washed with a soapy sudsy sponge then rinsed well and set aside to drain and thn dry in a tea towel. Once dry, it gets put away.

Anything that can be stored unwrapped, gets unwrapped and the wrappings thrown out right away.

Anything in single layer plastic wrapper like cheese, the wrapped item gets washed with a sudsy sponge, rinsed and drain dried, then put away.

The side where it all was while I was cleaning it then gets washed with a soapy sponge. The cloth bag I used to carry it goes straight into the wash.

I was doing this pretty much from the start, and thought I was being absurdly OTT but then I saw that video (shard in here back along) and realised it’s common sense.




I can’t find and can’t afford sanitiser so I’m rationing what I have and using soap at home instead.


ETA

I wash eggs in soap too, but briefly cos they’re porous.

I don’t wash bread....


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## 2hats (Apr 15, 2020)

UK Research and Innovation website with explanations of the scientific evidence behind the pandemic:









						Coronavirus: the science explained
					

This site lays out the evidence and facts about the virus, the disease, the epidemic, and its control




					coronavirusexplained.ukri.org


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## HAL9000 (Apr 16, 2020)

psychology coping if you do *NOT *have covid 19

jump to 16 minutes and 50 seconds









						The Inquiry - How do you help people stay rational in a pandemic? - BBC Sounds
					

People weren’t prepared for life in lockdown. How can we stay level headed in a pandemic?




					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## HAL9000 (Apr 16, 2020)

What are the psychological implications of a pandemic like coronavirus (COVID-19)?











						Q&A with Steven Taylor on the psychology of pandemics | ASK |...
					

The psychology of epidemics and pandemics remains a relatively unexplored...




					psychwire.com


----------



## crossfire (Apr 17, 2020)




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## hipipol (Apr 23, 2020)

I watch this guy's updates every day. He is clear, calm and evidence based - if he quotes a research paper he always provides links, he is a Nurse. ex A+E who went on to become a Trainer, he is called Dr because his PhD os on Teaching and Remote Training - ie Internet based Nurse Training. He has worked all over the world, he has an open mind, if new peer reviewed data appears which alters current thinking, he changes his advice to match and firmly believes in telling it straight, without sensationalist promotion of himself. He seems to be adding a thousand or so new subs a day when I first saw him start of March after seeing an interview he did on Aussie ABC news, he had 40k or so, now its over 640k. Many medics from around our battered globe send him info and on the ground reports. I find him a very useful, unbiased source of decent info.


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## magneze (Apr 25, 2020)

Why you’re unlikely to get the coronavirus from runners or cyclists
					






					www.vox.com


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## RubyToogood (Apr 25, 2020)

magneze said:


> Why you’re unlikely to get the coronavirus from runners or cyclists
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Except that assumes the joggers are maintaining social distance.


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## magneze (Apr 25, 2020)

RubyToogood said:


> Except that assumes the joggers are maintaining social distance.


Yes, whilst cycling yesterday the only people who didn't were two joggers. It's a pattern.


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## editor (Apr 29, 2020)

Excellent comic strip


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## treelover (Apr 29, 2020)

> ShoppingSlot | Next available grocery slots
> 
> 
> Your all-in-one search for online grocery shopping, both home delivery and click & collect
> ...



Could be helpful

update, not one slot available.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2020)

treelover said:


> Could be helpful
> 
> update, not one slot available.


iceland have loads


e2a: there's little shops round here which also deliver, so you might find you don't need to rely on the tescos and sainsbury's for stuff. in fact from what i've seen wandering round the last six weeks you'd be better going to the independent shops which have been more consistently stocked than the prominent chains


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## treelover (Apr 29, 2020)

I meant with my post code, Iceland alwaye have more than the others.


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## dilute micro (May 2, 2020)

best fabric for masks


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## treelover (May 4, 2020)

Covid-19 and Post-viral Fatigue Syndrome by Dr Charles Shepherd | 30 April 2020 | The ME Association
					

Post-viral fatigue is being reported following Covid-19 infection. We explain the issue and offer best management guidance.




					www.meassociation.org.uk
				




Post Viral Fatigue can occur after a serious viral outbreak, post Swine Flu, it can be very very debilitating and my years of experience and decent medical advice, is not to push on, but to rest, in some cases people will get M.E, the national charities are being contacted by post covids who are displaying all the usual symptoms of PVF, and in some cases, M.E and indeed Fibromylagia . They have published some useful advice above even if not M.E but Post viral.


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## bmd (May 13, 2020)

Can I refuse to work because of the Coronavirus? 11.05.2020

TUC explanation of your rights, concerning this question.


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## editor (May 13, 2020)

Travel advice 



> Should I cancel my summer 2020 package holiday?
> 
> Given the disruption facing holidaymakers at the moment, you may be tempted to just cancel now. Don’t. If you cancel your booking now you’ll lose all the money you’ve already paid and/or have to pay a cancellation fee. And you won’t be able to claim for this on your travel insurance as it’s classed as a ‘disinclination to travel’. If you wait for the holiday to be cancelled by the holiday provider, on the other hand, you’ll be entitled to a full refund.
> 
> ...












						Coronavirus: will my summer holiday go ahead? Should I cancel? - Which? News
					

Find out whether you should reschedule a disrupted holiday or cancel holidays booked for later in the year




					www.which.co.uk


----------



## editor (May 13, 2020)

And: 

Major holiday providers that have updated their policies on amending bookings include:

Audley Travel – the destination and date of bookings can be changed for free up to 31 days before departure 

British Airways Holidays – bookings departing before the end of May can be exchanged for vouchers, or the destination and date can be changed for free

EasyJet Holidays – holidays scheduled between May and August can be amended for free (holidays departing on or before 15 May have been cancelled) 

Great Rail Journeys – free postponement on all holidays scheduled for after  9 June (holidays departing before 9 June have been cancelled)

Inntravel – free date amendments or deferral for holidays scheduled from 30 June (holidays before then have been cancelled) 

Riviera – flexible amendment policy applies to all travel scheduled until 31 May (holidays after 31 May are currently set to go ahead as planned)

Saga – travel booked up to the end of August 2020 can be amended or postponed to 2021 for free (all bookings up to 1 July have been cancelled) 

Titan Travel – departure date and destination can be amended for free on all travel scheduled up to the end of August 2020 (holidays up to July 1 have been cancelled) 

Trailfinders – bookings up to 31 August can be amended for free (bookings up to 14 June have been cancelled)

Tui – holiday bookings made before 17 March can be amended for free on all travel before 11 July 2020 (this also applies to First Choice bookings). Amends can be made up to 31 July for Marella Cruises

Read more: Coronavirus: will my summer holiday go ahead? Should I cancel? – Which? News - Which?


----------



## frogwoman (May 13, 2020)

editor said:


> Travel advice
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lots of airlines are offering free rebooking.


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## Badgers (May 13, 2020)

frogwoman said:


> Lots of airlines are offering free rebooking.


There is some opinion that the likes of Ryanair are starting to fly again in order to offer 'replacement' rather than refund. 

The airlines will offer anything to get some money/commitment and to try and keep scared people engaged with travel.


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## editor (May 23, 2020)

Interesting piece



> COVID-19 has mounted a sustained attack on public life, especially indoor life. Many of the largest super-spreader events took place inside—at a church in South Korea, an auditorium in France, a conference in Massachusetts.
> 
> The danger of the indoors is more than anecdotal. A Hong Kong paper awaiting peer review found that of 7,324 documented cases in China, only one outbreak occurred outside—during a conversation among several men in a small village. The risk of infection indoors is almost 19 times higher than in open-air environments, according to another study from researchers in Japan.











						Social Distancing Is Not Enough
					

We will need a comprehensive strategy to reduce the sort of interactions that can lead to more infections.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## editor (May 23, 2020)

So keep away from shouty types and bloody singers: 



> Some people—known as “superemitters”—release more particles into the air when they speak, because they are unusually loud or slobbery talkers. But even normal gabbers can release an exceptional number of droplets if they’re singing or theatrically projecting their voice.


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## frogwoman (May 23, 2020)

“To avoid clustering at the hot-dog stands, stadium food vendors should serve as much as possible directly to people’s seats,” Allen said. 

Wont that put them at a greater risk of infection? Although if its outside maybe not?


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## krink (May 29, 2020)

Divorced couple with school age kids both have PR, one parent says wait until September other says go back now neither willing to budge. What happens now? Any ideas? Can't find anything in guidance.


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## B.I.G (May 29, 2020)

krink said:


> Divorced couple with school age kids both have PR, one parent says wait until September other says go back now neither willing to budge. What happens now? Any ideas? Can't find anything in guidance.



Is there a primary care giver? Or do the children live at least part of the school week with the other?

If there is a primary care giver with whom the children live in the school week then that person can decide unless the other goes to court.

If they share parental care in the week then unless there is a court order. One should keep the children and then the other has to go to court.

Im not a lawyer.


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## krink (May 29, 2020)

one has the kids 3 school days, the other two


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## B.I.G (May 29, 2020)

krink said:


> one has the kids 3 school days, the other two



Sad times. They need to try and decide whats best for the children between themselves unless one decides to keep hold of the children, which I believe would be legal in the absence of a court order.

They could see it suits one child but not the other and temporarily keep them separate.

I understand only certain age children are currently going back right now.

I’d be inclined to keep them off unless the suffering is going to be great unless they go in. Especially as its only a short time until summer.


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## Doodler (Jun 1, 2020)

I have been working for the past week and a bit in a supermarket, picking orders for click and. collect and home delivery. I do the 2.30am to 8.30am shift to reduce public contact.

What I see at work concerns me, and I would urge any of you using home delivery to treat with caution the goods delivered to you and the bags they arrive in. Wash everything you can in soapy water. Then wash the surfaces where you set down the bags and goods in the first place.

At work there is no social distancing behind the scenes. The managers and workers employed at that hour mostly lack any caution. The pace of work prevents people hanging around in groups, but no one keeps their distance when talking to another, nor when reaching for an item right next to where someone else in working.

PPE and sanitiser gels are available but almost no one uses them. I have seen no cleansing of any item of equipment which several different workers will handle during the course of the day: crates, trolleys, scanner guns. The hands that hold those are the same ones that pick the multipack of crisps you swear will last more than a day this time.

Although the virus can't live for very long at all on many kinds of surface, from memory it seems more resilient on smooth plastic - like the kind a big proportion of supermarket goods come packaged in. Be careful!


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 1, 2020)

Doodler said:


> I have been working for the past week and a bit in a supermarket, picking orders for click and. collect and home delivery. I do the 2.30am to 8.30am shift to reduce public contact.
> 
> What I see at work concerns me, and I would urge any of you using home delivery to treat with caution the goods delivered to you and the bags they arrive in. Wash everything you can in soapy water. Then wash the surfaces where you set down the bags and goods is the first place.
> 
> ...


You know what....? That's really interesting. My boyfriend came down with COVID and we have no idea how he caught it as he has barely left the house since lockdown began. He _HAS _had a lot of groceries delivered though. Hmmmm........


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## Doodler (Jun 1, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> You know what....? That's really interesting. My boyfriend came down with COVID and we have no idea how he caught it as he has barely left the house since lockdown began. He _HAS _had a lot of groceries delivered though. Hmmmm........



I guess the chances are very low indeed for any single item having enough virions stuck on it to be a threat. On the other hand, a shopper might order a dozen packaged items at a time, twice a week. That's a hundred goes on the lottery each month.


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 1, 2020)

Doodler said:


> I guess the chances are very low indeed for any single item having enough virions stuck on it to be a threat. On the other hand, a shopper might order a dozen packaged items at a time, twice a week. That's a hundred goes on the lottery each month.


Who knows! He didn't do anything stupid but he caught it. Could have been grocery deliveries.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2020)

We've been wiping down everything that comes into the house from outside with soapy or bleachy water ever since lockdown began, if not a little beforehand. Everyone should be.


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 1, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> We've been wiping down everything that comes into the house from outside with soapy or bleachy water ever since lockdown began, if not a little beforehand. Everyone should be.


I really haven't been doing that. All the handwashing and not touching anything/touching my face but I haven't been wiping down every item that enters my flat.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I really haven't been doing that. All the handwashing and not touching anything/touching my face but I haven't been wiping down every item that enters my flat.


Maybe you should start.


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## 2hats (Jun 1, 2020)

If you want to minimise risk (zero risk can not be achieved): Extract fruit, veg from wrapping cellophane (if necessary, almost always with supermarket deliveries) and wash then store (I would wash such before consumption normally anyway; washing prior to storage isn't a major change). Wipe down water impervious items or set them aside, with the items likely to be damaged by water, for at least 3 days. Wash hands before, during and after. Seems fairly straightforward to me.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2020)

That’s a lot of bother. Doubt many people would do that. I certainly wouldn’t


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 1, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Maybe you should start.


Maybe I should! I'm not sick yet though and I get the bus into London every day. I don't get home grocery deliveries either.
But the thought does occur to me that that is the one area where I am not minimsing risk.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 1, 2020)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Maybe I should! I'm not sick yet though


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 1, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


>


yeah yeah I know 

Just being devil's avocado innit.
Should get myself some more wipes and wipe stuff down as I bring it in. I know. Which is why I said _"the thought does occur to me that that is the one area where I am not minimsing risk"_


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## quimcunx (Jun 1, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> That’s a lot of bother. Doubt many people would do that. I certainly wouldn’t



I wipe everything down with disinfectant or wash with soap. I am getting a bit more slapdash about it now, mind.  The levels of vigilance I was at the first couple of weeks would be hard to maintain.


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## Supine (Jun 1, 2020)

I don't bother. The CDC risk assessed this kind of thing as low (and I'm a bit lazy).


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## two sheds (Jun 3, 2020)

2hats said:


> If you want to minimise risk (zero risk can not be achieved): Extract fruit, veg from wrapping cellophane (if necessary, almost always with supermarket deliveries) and wash then store (I would wash such before consumption normally anyway; washing prior to storage isn't a major change). Wipe down water impervious items or set them aside, with the items likely to be damaged by water, for at least 3 days. Wash hands before, during and after. Seems fairly straightforward to me.



Ta for this - convenient post to hang my question(s) on. 

1) When you say wash - presumably this is washing with (liquid) soap/washing up liquid. I'm a bit iffy about washing vegetables with soap but a good rinse afterwards should make it fine. 

2) Washing down bottles, cans, etc: I presume best is going to be use something like a surface wipe. The anti-bacterial ones I have say "<5% non-ionic surfactant. Also contains disinfectant per 100g of liquid benzalkonium-chloride", which on this page says: 



> Benzalkonium chloride is a typical dual-function disinfectant, which can kill bacteria / fungus and kill / inhibit viruses. It has a strong killing effect on a variety of pathogenic bacteria / fungus and viruses, so it is widely used in various scene disinfection.



I'm wondering whether that will be enough (although the wipes don't say how much of the ingredients there are), or whether I should add a wee squirt of liquid soap or washing up liquid. 

So nice straightforward question for anyone who can advise


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## Doodler (Jun 3, 2020)

two sheds said:


> Ta for this - convenient post to hang my question(s) on.
> 
> 1) When you say wash - presumably this is washing with (liquid) soap/washing up liquid. I'm a bit iffy about washing vegetables with soap but a good rinse afterwards should make it fine.
> 
> ...



Re. washing veg, some kinds seem to go off/rot a lot quicker if they're washed and left to drip dry, carrots in particular.

Presuming that soap full stop is what does for the Covid virus's shell, I fill the sink with cold water plus washing up liquid and decant from the shopping bag straight into it. Common sense suggests some goods tend to get handled and rummaged about more than others in shops, such as bread,:for which people check the sell-by date.


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## blameless77 (Jun 3, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Maybe you should start.



That way madness lies!


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## two sheds (Jun 3, 2020)

Doodler said:


> Re. washing veg, some kinds seem to go off/rot a lot quicker if they're washed and left to drip dry, carrots in particular.
> 
> Presuming that soap full stop is what does for the Covid virus's shell, I fill the sink with cold water plus washing up liquid and decant from the shopping bag straight into it. Common sense suggests some goods tend to get handled and rummaged about more than others in shops, such as bread,:for which people check the sell-by date.



Re: carrots ..... aha!! I wondered why they weren't keeping as well

I've actually got an aluminium bin outside the door which I put deliveries in and give them a bit of a spray with alcohol and leave for a couple of days when I can. 

Then in sink with detergent does sound favourite, although i know I'm going to end up with all the labels coming off so I'll be ending up with surprise on toast a few times.


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## lazythursday (Jun 3, 2020)

My wash-the-shopping system has evolved since the start of lockdown. I take all shopping into a spare room where I sort it out. Things which can be decanted from outside containers / packaging I do first - get put away and packaging disposed of. Then remaining things that have to go in fridge or freezer I wash in soapy water. The rest - things like tins and packets - I leave in the spare room to decontaminate for a few days. I have no idea if this is scientifically sensible but it makes me feel safer and means I only actually wash a limited amount of stuff - washing everything was such a chore. For general deliveries I have a similar system - unpack straight away, put cardboard into decontamination zone, wash hands. It's been really noticeable the last week though that delivery people are no longer keeping back from the door, so many people acting like it's all over.


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## editor (Jun 12, 2020)

The FT has produced another article that's worth a look



> Japanese research that traced the contacts of 110 people with Covid-19 found the infection was passed on by only 12.5 per cent of those whose only interactions with others were outdoors. But of those whose only encounters were indoors, almost 75 per cent infected others.
































						How to avoid the virus as the world reopens | Free to read
					

A guide to where the biggest risks lie as lockdowns ease




					www.ft.com


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## editor (Jun 21, 2020)

Why days go slowly and weeks hurtle by









						Quarantime: Why the Days Drag and the Weeks Fly By
					

Research on time and memory explains why the lockdown distorts our perceptions.




					www.psychologytoday.com


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 22, 2020)

Just wondering how the R number is calculated? How do they know it's gone up or down, do they calculate it from the number of confirmed infections?


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 23, 2020)

frogwoman said:


> Just wondering how the R number is calculated? How do they know it's gone up or down, do they calculate it from the number of confirmed infections?


Complex maths and statistical modelling. It's not like just counting up people with coughs each week.


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## Roadkill (Jun 23, 2020)

2hats said:


> If you want to minimise risk (zero risk can not be achieved): Extract fruit, veg from wrapping cellophane (if necessary, almost always with supermarket deliveries) and wash then store (I would wash such before consumption normally anyway; washing prior to storage isn't a major change). Wipe down water impervious items or set them aside, with the items likely to be damaged by water, for at least 3 days. Wash hands before, during and after. Seems fairly straightforward to me.



I'm glad it's not only me who's doing this!  Well, I'm not doing much more with fruit and veg than a quick wash down, but shopping gets unpacked in the bath and all waterproof packages get sprayed with disinfectant, left for a few minutes and then rinsed before they go in the cupboards.  I put the mop bucket with bleach solution by the front door when I go shopping, and the first thing I do when I get back is wet the floor with it and walk through it to disinfect my shoes, and then mop down anywhere I've put down bags.  I've stopped throwing away the bags themselves, but have a rotation system so they don't get used for a few days.  I also sanitise the front door handle, keys, my bank card and anything else I've carried with me, and usually then have a shower and change my clothes.


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## 2hats (Jun 23, 2020)

Roadkill said:


> I'm glad it's not only me who's doing this!


I didn't say I was doing it. I just said that's what I would do if I wanted to minimise risk. Since I have an apparent immune response to SARS-CoV-2 and good reason to think I have been exposed, plus do not fall into a vulnerable category and now find myself in an environment with Re<1 I'm not quite so thorough as that, nor need to be. Though (as previously stated) I've always washed fruit and veg, and non-consumables have typically always sat around for days in storage anyway prior to use.


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## Roadkill (Jun 23, 2020)

2hats said:


> I didn't say I was doing it.



Sorry - misread you, and probably outed myself as excessively cautious in the process!


----------



## hash tag (Jun 28, 2020)

Tracking and tracing. Cost to date £12 million and why it won't work and why C19 is potentially more serious than you could imagine, it can screw up most of your organs!








						5 Live Science - Journey to the centre of the Earth - BBC Sounds
					

Science news, plus a special journey to the centre of the Earth.




					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## zahir (Jun 30, 2020)

How to do the self test


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 30, 2020)

zahir said:


> How to do the self test




Watching this video has just further underlined the need for a far simpler and user friendly test.  For various medical reasons I would be unable to do the nasal swab.  Its little wonder to me why so many repeat tests (particularly self-tests) have to be carried out.

I hope they can get this saliva test to work and quickly.


----------



## 2hats (Jun 30, 2020)

A dry blood spot test is also being worked on.


----------



## zahir (Jun 30, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Watching this video has just further underlined the need for a far simpler and user friendly test.  For various medical reasons I would be unable to do the nasal swab.  Its little wonder to me why so many repeat tests (particularly self-tests) have to be carried out.
> 
> I hope they can get this saliva test to work and quickly.



I’ve just got back from doing the test at a walk-through centre. The test was self-administered but with someone telling me what to do. I found the nasal swab straightforward. I wasn’t sure if I was doing the throat swab in the right place. I wouldn’t really have wanted to do the test at home by following the video. The test centre seemed to be run well enough and there are a lot more centres open now. If you apply for a test online you‘re given a choice of test centres closest to your postcode. I haven’t been able to find an up to date list of test centres elsewhere.


----------



## zahir (Jul 5, 2020)

__





						NHS England » NHS to launch ground breaking online COVID-19 rehab service
					






					www.england.nhs.uk
				




_Not up and running yet but from the site..._

evidence shows that many of those survivors are likely to have significant on-going health problems, including breathing difficulties, enduring tiredness, reduced muscle function, impaired ability to perform vital everyday tasks and mental health problems such as PTSD, anxiety and depression.

The online portal will help ensure that people get the support they need to recover from the effects of the virus, including those associated with spending a long time on ventilation, while reducing the need to physically attend appointments for many.

The first phase of the service will launch later this month, providing the latest advice on recovering from the virus, which will be available to all and continually improved and added to.

The second phase, in which people who need it will be able to access personalised support packages, is in development by experts based in Leicester and will be made available later in the summer.

In order to access this part of the site, patients will first attend a face-to-face assessment, which may include a walking test, to help personalise care and ensure people get the type of support and rehabilitation specific to their need, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach.

For those who need ongoing care, they will be given a log-in to the new online site, which will be accessible from any web-enabled phone, tablet, television or computer.

Where patients don’t already have access to a suitable device to use the online platform, printed materials will be made depending upon demand to ensure the service is accessible to all.

Rehabilitation professionals will be able to access their patient’s data to enable remote care and monitoring, ensuring that anyone who might need further face-to-face checks or treatment can get it


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## gosub (Jul 5, 2020)

Mix amalase (sugar enzyme) with degreaser for a more effective anti Covid cleaning solution (+possibly 60% alcohol)


----------



## zahir (Jul 12, 2020)

NICE guidance on managing COVID-19



			https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng165/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-managing-suspected-or-confirmed-pneumonia-in-adults-in-the-community-pdf-66141902429125


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## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2020)

gosub said:


> Mix amalase (sugar enzyme) with degreaser for a more effective anti Covid cleaning solution (+possibly 60% alcohol)



This is the sensible information thread. Amylase is inactivated by ethanol. Do you have any evidence for "amylase with a degreaser" being more effective for anyone than soapy water or alcohol gel? I mean there are lots of solutions that can kill coronavirus, such as bleach and concentrated acids, but they serve little purpose because you want to use the solutions that are least destructive to other things such as skin and plastics.


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## two sheds (Jul 12, 2020)

zahir said:


> NICE guidance on managing COVID-19
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng165/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-managing-suspected-or-confirmed-pneumonia-in-adults-in-the-community-pdf-66141902429125



That's really useful, thanks 

phone/video consultations (possibly risky?), electronic prescriptions, postal delivery of medicines all sensible  for the future

This interesting, too: 



> Where physical examination and other ways of making an objective diagnosis are not possible, the clinical diagnosis of community-acquired pneumonia of any cause in an adult can be informed by other clinical signs or symptoms such as:
> 
> • temperature above 38°C
> • respiratory rate above 20 breaths per minute
> ...



plus interesting sections/symptoms for  assessing severity (3.4), deciding hospital admission (4.1), managing breathlessness (4.4): [Overview | COVID-19 rapid guideline: managing symptoms (including at the end of life) in the community | Guidance | NICE], antibiotic and corticosteroids treatments (4.5-4.12, antibiotics no good for viral diseases)


----------



## gosub (Jul 12, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> This is the sensible information thread. Amylase is inactivated by ethanol. Do you have any evidence for "amylase with a degreaser" being more effective for anyone than soapy water or alcohol gel? I mean there are lots of solutions that can kill coronavirus, such as bleach and concentrated acids, but they serve little purpose because you want to use the solutions that are least destructive to other things such as skin and plastics.



Then no alcohol (*or just >60%*), Covid 19 is DNA,, wrapped in lipid (degreaser) with outer layer of sugar (amylase)


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2020)

gosub said:


> Then no alcohol (*or just >60%*), Covid 19 is DNA,, wrapped in lipid (degreaser) with outer layer of sugar (amylase)



No it's soapy water or alcohol-based hand rub.  Amylase and degreaser is not more effective, sorry but this is useless nonsense.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 12, 2020)

and 70% alcohol 30% water as I recall, or actually 60-80% alcohol and over 80% doesn't work properly either.


----------



## gosub (Jul 12, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> No it's soapy water or alcohol-based hand rub.  Amylase and degreaser is not more effective, sorry but this is useless nonsense.


On a personal basis soap and water or alcohol v.good.  Other people have other things to think about.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2020)

gosub said:


> On a personal basis soap and water or alcohol v.good.  Other people have other things to think about.



You’re not making any sense, and certainly not imparting any sensible information.


----------



## gosub (Jul 12, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> You’re not making any sense, and certainly not imparting any sensible information.



Says someone who doesn't think soapy water is a degreaser


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 12, 2020)

gosub said:


> Says someone who doesn't think soapy water is a degreaser



I know soap is a degreaser, it's the most sensible one to recommend people use for combating this virus. There are lots of other degreasers which aren’t suitable. Your advice of amylase + degreaser + alcohol is not sensible or even coherent, which is why I challenged it.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2020)

Am I right in thinking that the infection fatality rate differs depending what country you are in and what healthcare you have access to etc and that currently it's thought to usually be somewhere between 0.4 and 1.2? 

People have quoted different measurements on twitter and I didn't know they had worked out the fatality rate so precisely yet.


----------



## Supine (Jul 22, 2020)

frogwoman said:


> Am I right in thinking that the infection fatality rate differs depending what country you are in and what healthcare you have access to etc and that currently it's thought to usually be somewhere between 0.4 and 1.2?
> 
> People have quoted different measurements on twitter and I didn't know they had worked out the fatality rate so precisely yet.



Yes. And there is some data to show that the rate is improving as treatments start to get refined.


----------



## Supine (Jul 22, 2020)

Really good thread on vaccines / immune response written in plain English


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2020)

Supine said:


> Yes. And there is some data to show that the rate is improving as treatments start to get refined.



Yes I guess as more is known about how to treat it, what warnings to look for , hospitals have expanded capacity etc, the fatality rate has reduced. However I've seen it argued that the low fatality rate is a reason not to do anything like wear masks  when surely one of the reasons it is lower now in many places is hospitals aren't overwhelmed, people can give time to each patient etc


----------



## zahir (Jul 22, 2020)

frogwoman said:


> Am I right in thinking that the infection fatality rate differs depending what country you are in and what healthcare you have access to etc and that currently it's thought to usually be somewhere between 0.4 and 1.2?
> 
> People have quoted different measurements on twitter and I didn't know they had worked out the fatality rate so precisely yet.



I did read somewhere that there have been very big differences in fatality rates in different hospitals in the UK. I can’t remember where I saw this though.


----------



## Supine (Jul 22, 2020)

zahir said:


> I did read somewhere that there have been very big differences in fatality rates in different hospitals in the UK. I can’t remember where I saw this though.



You have to remember natural variation in data when comparing something like UK hospitals. It would be dangerous to make simple conclusions about something like hospital performance from limited data.


----------



## zahir (Jul 22, 2020)

It may also be partly about who is being admitted to hospital.


----------



## sojourner (Jul 24, 2020)

Does anyone know if you can get tested with no symptoms if you are a care worker? My fella would like to get the test done but he has no symptoms.


----------



## zahir (Jul 24, 2020)

sojourner said:


> Does anyone know if you can get tested with no symptoms if you are a care worker? My fella would like to get the test done but he has no symptoms.



Yes, anyone can get tested. You just have to ignore what it says on the NHS site about eligibility and symptoms and go ahead and book the test anyway.






						Get a PCR test to check if you have coronavirus (COVID-19)
					

Find out where to get a test to check if you have coronavirus (COVID-19).




					www.gov.uk
				




This is what it says:


> You can get a test:
> 
> for yourself, if you have coronavirus symptoms now (a high temperature, a new, continuous cough, or a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste)
> for someone you live with, if they have symptoms
> ...



Just ignore it and book the test.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jul 24, 2020)

ONS map lets you search by postcode and see local Covid-19 deaths.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2020)

I thought this article was good


----------



## Supine (Jul 25, 2020)

My mum wants me to do the swab test on her but I think she should do it herself. Anyone got any advice on which is best?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2020)

Supine said:


> My mum wants me to do the swab test on her but I think she should do it herself. Anyone got any advice on which is best?


Depends if you want to ever speak to her again, from what I gather


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2020)

This week's blame sponge = fat bastards.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 25, 2020)

While McDonalds run their ads of screamingly ecstatic families being able to tuck into huge fucking beefburgers again.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2020)

two sheds said:


> While McDonalds run their ads of screamingly ecstatic families being able to tuck into huge fucking beefburgers again.


subsidised by...


----------



## two sheds (Jul 25, 2020)

Haha I hadn't thought of that


----------



## Supine (Jul 25, 2020)

existentialist said:


> Depends if you want to ever speak to her again, from what I gather



?


----------



## gosub (Aug 1, 2020)

BMI calculator | Check your BMI
					

Check your BMI and understand your result




					www.nhs.uk


----------



## zahir (Aug 1, 2020)

This from Dominic Harrison, public health director for Blackburn, gives a much more sensible list of symptoms than the NHS test booking site:


> I want to ask everyone in the borough to attend for testing – especially those who may not think they have symptoms. This applies particularly to anyone who has felt unwell or had any viral-type symptoms over the last two weeks. The USA Communicable Disease Centre has now identified 11 conditions that are associated with Covid-19. These are : *fever or chills; cough; shortness of breath or difficulty breathing; fatigue; muscle or body aches ; headache ;new loss of taste or smell ; sore throat ; congestion or runny nose; nausea or vomiting; diarrhoea*.
> 
> If you have any of these symptoms in the last two weeks and live in Blackburn with Darwen – please now come and get tested!











						This week’s coronavirus column
					

Our Director of Public Health and Wellbeing, Professor Dominic Harrison, has written another column for the Lancashire Telegraph. Read it here: Blackburn with Darwen’s rate of confirmed Covid…




					theshuttle.org.uk


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Aug 2, 2020)

zahir said:


> *congestion or runny nose*


Interesting that has now made the list, it was very deliberately not a Covid symptom at the beginning.


----------



## gentlegreen (Aug 3, 2020)

arse.
I had that recently - but I've had long-term snottiness and sometimes a sore throat which I labelled "bacterial" and hayfever is now added to the confusing mix ...
But I generally try to proceed as though I'm Typhoid Mary.


----------



## zahir (Aug 3, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Interesting that has now made the list, it was very deliberately not a Covid symptom at the beginning.



It’s still not on the list of symptoms shown on the UK test booking site. I’d say congestion and tiredness are the symptoms I’ve had consistently since I got it, but going off the UK guidance that wouldn’t qualify me for testing.


----------



## gentlegreen (Aug 4, 2020)

I'm intrigued by the possibility of symptomless covid.

Most years I routinely get viruses with just fever / mild headache and tiredness and perhaps one or two token sneezes, (the past two years I had viruses that completely floored me for months) whereas since this all got going in March I have had low-level secondary symptoms - including a very slight phlegmy cough which I'm associating with the slight snottiness.
I was hoping getting back to cycling to work (5 weeks now) would clear that - perhaps I should try gargling with salt ...

At the start of this I was obsessively checking my temperature and inputting to the research app and I have a blood oximeter trapped in an Amazon locker...

One thing I have learned is that some of us have a low starting point for temperature and I saw one speculation by a doctor that it might put one in good stead for a mild dose of covid.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 4, 2020)

My wife and eldest both tests on Sunday and got negative results on Monday. My son hasn't been anywhere near anyone, just at home in our house and neither have we. yougest had a negative test the Wednesday before, ahead of a dental extraction and was negative. Again, hasn't been anywhere since. 

My mum misses my boys terribly, more so with Dad intensive care and in hospital with no visiting allowed for 3 weeks now, with a similar 6 week stint in there 3 weeks before that

So...my youngest has a appointment this morning, but with negative test results yesterday, could it be safe to leave my eldest with my mum while I do her shopping? (She's 74)


----------



## existentialist (Aug 4, 2020)

Harry Smiles said:


> My wife and eldest both tests on Sunday and got negative results on Monday. My son hasn't been anywhere near anyone, just at home in our house and neither have we. yougest had a negative test the Wednesday before, ahead of a dental extraction and was negative. Again, hasn't been anywhere since.
> 
> My mum misses my boys terribly, more so with Dad intensive care and in hospital with no visiting allowed for 3 weeks now, with a similar 6 week stint in there 3 weeks before that
> 
> So...my youngest has a appointment this morning, but with negative test results yesterday, could it be safe to leave my eldest with my mum while I do her shopping? (She's 74)


Nobody's ever going to be able to give you a guarantee of safety, but I'd say the risk factors are pretty well dialled-back there. But that kind of thing can't be the call of a bunch of randoms on the Internet...you have to decide.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 4, 2020)

existentialist said:


> Nobody's ever going to be able to give you a guarantee of safety, but I'd say the risk factors are pretty well dialled-back there. But that kind of thing can't be the call of a bunch of randoms on the Internet...you have to decide.



Yeah, absolutely get that, though in this instance in particular, a well written, apparently sensible post appears a reliable as the endless stream of conflicting drivel from the Government


----------



## existentialist (Aug 4, 2020)

Harry Smiles said:


> Yeah, absolutely get that, though in this instance in particular, a well written, apparently sensible post appears a reliable as the endless stream of conflicting drivel from the Government


I'll probably get it in the neck from some quarters for this, but I think the best defence against this (or any pandemic) is reasonably well-informed personal choice. Legislation is a blunt instrument which can never take account of individual circumstances, and tends to be trying to strike a balance between the specific agendas of the politicians proposing it, and the functional need for it. So, for example, I am a bit appalled by the people who take 1m-plus-and-masks as some kind of magical amulet that protects them from Covid-19, regardless of what else they are doing (the particular example I have in mind is that of counsellors who are interpreting government guidelines to suggest that they'll be perfectly safe sitting in a room with a sobbing, snotting, laughing, shouting client...or a succession of them, just so long as they've got that ruler out for the separation ).

On the other side of it...I live in a rural community which, until the tsunami of holidaymakers arrived a week or two ago, has had about 3 Covid-19 deaths in a 30 mile radius - we have been in a state of grace which has meant that the kind of precautions you're describing would not have been necessary. That has enabled people to be a lot more pragmatic about how they manage the risk, given that the odds of any given (local) individual being infected are extremely low. So people have tended to be less paranoid, and more willing to gather, with at least a significant nod towards social distancing...though masks have been a rarity, even now. That's changing with all the holidaymakers, and we are starting to see an uptick in the number of cases being treated in local hospitals, along with anecdotal stories of people wandering into GP surgeries they're not registered to and complaining of Covid-19 symptoms.

None of this is really adequately covered by legislation (Welsh or UK), and I think that those of us with enough of a handle on things just have to work out how we feel the best way to protect ourselves and our communities is...and those who want to simply stick by the law? Well, OK, they're probably putting themselves at more risk in some ways (you are not obliged to wear a mask in shops in Wales, for example), but at less in others...eg., if they're rigorously observing social distancing rules, and so on.

So, yeah - the best any of us can do in an individual situation is to look at the risk factors, figure out how to minimise them, and take our chances.


----------



## krink (Aug 4, 2020)

The eviction ban ends 23/08/2020 but does anyone know if it only covered private housing? I live in social housing. Thanks.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2020)

The WHO currently estimates the infection fatality rate at 0.6% (there's other studies that are higher or lower and I guess it will differ by country depending on age profile, nutrition, quality of medical care etc).

However in an interview I listened to about a week ago Dr Fauci said he thought the fatality rate was 1%. I guess it doesn't really matter it's a pretty horrible virus either way.


----------



## Aladdin (Aug 7, 2020)

Deleted.


----------



## Supine (Aug 8, 2020)

Really good long read on the complexities of developing and rolling out a covid vaccine.









						A Vaccine Reality Check
					

So much hope is riding on a breakthrough, but a vaccine is only the beginning of the end.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## zahir (Aug 9, 2020)

This looks like a useful report on how covid affects children and the issues with reopening schools.









						What we are learning about Covid-19 and kids
					

As schools around the world prepare to reopen, emerging scientific evidence about children and coronavirus is coming to light




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## clicker (Aug 9, 2020)

zahir said:


> This looks like a useful report on how covid affects children and the issues with reopening schools.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why am I not suprised PHE are in the minority, by not suggesting face masks for secondary school students. If wearing them has possible positives and no negatives, why the feet dragging again?


----------



## zahir (Aug 13, 2020)

Post Covid guidance.



> Helping you to recover and manage your symptoms following COVID-19





			https://www.tamesidehospital.nhs.uk/Documents/TamesideandGlossopPostCOVID19PatientInformationPack.pdf


----------



## two sheds (Aug 13, 2020)

Interesting, thanks for posting.


----------



## zahir (Aug 13, 2020)

There’s also the post-covid hub:

Post-COVID HUB


> For people left with breathing difficulties after COVID-19, their family members, carers, healthcare professionals, policy-makers and researchers. Stay up to date through our dedicated Post-COVID HUB.
> 
> We are still learning about the effects of COVID-19 on people’s long-term health. However early studies show that some people recovering from a severe case of the coronavirus can have ongoing breathing difficulties.


----------



## zahir (Aug 15, 2020)

Long-term immunological health consequences



			https://www.immunology.org/sites/default/files/BSI_Briefing_Note_August_2020_FINAL.pdf
		



> As the COVID-19 pandemic continues, it has become clear that infection with SARS-CoV-2 may be responsible for previously unexpected long-term immunological health consequences. The UK’s immunologists have been at the forefront of researching the phenomena that we are seeing and the mechanisms behind them.
> 
> This briefing note aims to summarise what we do and don’t currently know about the long-term immunological health consequences of COVID-19 and sets out the key recommendations for future research.


----------



## zahir (Aug 21, 2020)

Managing long Covid









						Management of post-acute covid-19 in primary care
					

### What you need to know  Post-acute covid-19 (“long covid”) seems to be a multisystem disease, sometimes occurring after a relatively mild acute illness.1 Clinical management requires a whole-patient perspective.2 This article, intended for primary care clinicians, relates to the patient who...




					www.bmj.com
				





> Post-acute covid-19 (“long covid”) seems to be a multisystem disease, sometimes occurring after a relatively mild acute illness.1 Clinical management requires a whole-patient perspective.2 This article, intended for primary care clinicians, relates to the patient who has a delayed recovery from an episode of covid-19 that was managed in the community or in a standard hospital ward. Broadly, such patients can be divided into those who may have serious sequelae (such as thromboembolic complications) and those with a non-specific clinical picture, often dominated by fatigue and breathlessness.





> In the absence of agreed definitions, for the purposes of this article we define post-acute covid-19 as extending beyond three weeks from the onset of first symptoms and chronic covid-19 as extending beyond 12 weeks. Since many people were not tested, and false negative tests are common,4 we suggest that a positive test for covid-19 is not a prerequisite for diagnosis.
> 
> Around 10% of patients who have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 virus remain unwell beyond three weeks, and a smaller proportion for months


----------



## zahir (Aug 23, 2020)

A guide to symptoms









						Could My Symptoms Be Covid-19? (Published 2020)
					

These days, every cough, sneeze or headache makes you wonder: Could it be coronavirus? Here’s a guide to help you understand the symptoms.



					www.nytimes.com


----------



## Mation (Sep 4, 2020)

You've got a current temperature of 39.6. You don't drive or cycle or live with anyone who drives. You are offered a test 5 miles from where you live. No home tests or other sites offered. You can't take public transport due to your temperature.

What do you do?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Mation said:


> You've got a current temperature of 39.6. You don't drive or cycle or live with anyone who drives. You are offered a test 5 miles from where you live. No home tests or other sites offered. You can't take public transport due to your temperature.
> 
> What do you do?


ask for a home test? 39.6 is pretty high for a temperature


----------



## Mation (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> ask for a home test? 39.6 is pretty high for a temperature


That would be good, except they've run out of home tests


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Mation said:


> That would be good, except they've run out of home tests


jeez. i'd walk/cycle if i was feeling well enough. that's what i did, but I only had a mild temp and no other symptoms. that sucks.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Maybe 111 may be able to suggest an alternative. Seems well shit in London for testing. Leeds has been highlighted as a hotspot today so they're sending out testing patrols and increasing testing sites


----------



## Mation (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> jeez. i'd walk/cycle if i was feeling well enough. that's what i did, but I only had a mild temp and no other symptoms. that sucks.


Yep. A ten-mile round trip, walking doesn't seem like a great idea with a temperature that high  

And the website is now offering a test 6 fucking miles away.


----------



## Looby (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> jeez. i'd walk/cycle if i was feeling well enough. that's what i did, but I only had a mild temp and no other symptoms. that sucks.


You can only do that for walk in sites. Elsewhere you have to drive or be driven but not in a cab. It’s really shit.


----------



## Mation (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Maybe 111 may be able to suggest an alternative. Seems well shit in London for testing. Leeds has been highlighted as a hotspot today so they're sending out testing patrols and increasing testing sites


They only have access to the same website and the call cut off part way through after quite some time on hold to speak to someone.

Shit show is shit.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 4, 2020)

Oh no  feel better soon x


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Looby said:


> You can only do that for walk in sites. Elsewhere you have to drive or be driven but not in a cab. It’s really shit.


Aye, the place I went to was walk in but it was 5 miles away too - I wasn't ill though, just being cautious cos of where I work and who I live with


----------



## Mation (Sep 4, 2020)

frogwoman said:


> Oh no  feel better soon x


Housemate, not me. But thank you x


----------



## Looby (Sep 4, 2020)

Just for info as posted elsewhere. I’ve been advised this week that the test booking site is fucked and to turn up for tests at drive in sites.
I went tonight and it was empty but no-one can book there! I assume it’s the same elsewhere.


----------



## hash tag (Sep 4, 2020)

There is a pop up testing site at wandsworth town hall again this weekend but probably pre booking only.


----------



## Mation (Sep 4, 2020)

hash tag said:


> There is a pop up testing site at wandsworth town hall again this weekend but probably pre booking only.


Yes, via the same site.

9.7 miles and counting. (Wandsworth wasn't offered.)


----------



## hash tag (Sep 4, 2020)

I gather new slots are being offered all over the place all the time....tough, I know, just keep trying.
i dont know where you are but there was a large testing site in chessington.


----------



## zora (Sep 4, 2020)

Just saw quimcunx mentioning a local (to her) little used, little known about test centre on another thread.  Wonder if it could be useful for your housemate, Mation? Mind you, even if it was only a mile or two away from yours, and if there was a way to turn up there for a test without going through the website, walking there with a raging temperature and in a potentially highly infectious stage of illness doesn't sound great either. :/ 

And...just...yikes, sending all my best wishes to you and your household! Xx


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 4, 2020)

Are there any mutual aid groups that can help?


----------



## Mation (Sep 4, 2020)

zora said:


> Just saw quimcunx mentioning a local (to her) little used, little known about test centre on another thread.  Wonder if it could be useful for your housemate, Mation? Mind you, even if it was only a mile or two away from yours, and if there was a way to turn up there for a test without going through the website, walking there with a raging temperature and in a potentially highly infectious stage of illness doesn't sound great either. :/
> 
> And...just...yikes, sending all my best wishes to you and your household! Xx


Thank you, I'll investigate x

All such a fucking shambles, though


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 4, 2020)

Not sure how reliable. Someone said there is one on somerleyton road.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 6, 2020)

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30271-6/fulltext
		

Bit of an upsetting article about the complications some kids get with covid. One of the more alarming findings is that children can develop this illness after a previously asymptomatic infection.


----------



## Hyperdark (Sep 9, 2020)

One of the indicators that seriously ill covid19 sufferers present with is extremely low blood oxygen levels often with no accompanying sympoms of breathlessnes.
You can now buy cheap chinese Pulse Oximeters,  which are apparently fairly accurate.
These devices can give an early warning that you are unwell enough to need hospitalisation


----------



## nyxx (Sep 9, 2020)

Looby said:


> Just for info as posted elsewhere. I’ve been advised this week that the test booking site is fucked and to turn up for tests at drive in sites.
> I went tonight and it was empty but no-one can book there! I assume it’s the same elsewhere.



Matches my friends my experiences. 
But they did have to drive in.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2020)

This seems a well researched read. In short: wear masks.


Link updated The Most Likely Way You’ll Get Infected With Covid-19


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 19, 2020)

editor said:


> This seems a well researched read. In short: wear masks.


Blank here.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> Blank here.


It's on medium.com but their articles always seem tricky to link to. I'll have a go again when I get home.

Update: try this The Most Likely Way You’ll Get Infected With Covid-19


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 19, 2020)

editor said:


> It's on medium.com but their articles always seem tricky to link to. I'll have a go again when I get home.
> 
> Update: try this The Most Likely Way You’ll Get Infected With Covid-19


Still no joy


----------



## two sheds (Sep 19, 2020)

works for me now


----------



## Saunders (Sep 19, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> Still no joy


Link worked for me.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 19, 2020)

Saunders said:


> Link worked for me.





two sheds said:


> works for me now


And strangely enough, it works for me now


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 20, 2020)

Really worth watching the latest WHO Q&A session with Mike Ryan and Maria van Kerkhove.


----------



## Cloo (Sep 21, 2020)

Potential helpful contextualising article on what 'normal' risk is in view of Covid for those who like their stats: Use of “normal” risk to improve understanding of dangers of covid-19


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2020)

If you're being bothered by persistent anti face mask twats on social media, this is a good STFU link 



> The use of face masks was protective for both health-care workers and people in the community exposed to infection, with both the frequentist and Bayesian analyses lending support to face mask use irrespective of setting.





			https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext
		


Further ammo: 


Oxford COVID-19 study: face masks and coverings work – act now
Science says: Wear a mask
Do face masks really reduce coronavirus spread?
Why scientists say wearing masks shouldn’t be controversial
Face Masks Really Do Matter. The Scientific Evidence Is Growing


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Oct 1, 2020)

If the virus doesn’t exist, chat about the efficacy of masks is meaningless. 

We are being told to wear masks so that AI can learn how to recognise us from minimal cues. Trufak!


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 5, 2020)

This week's Twiv has a discussion on mice and the fact they can carry SARS-COV-2.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Oct 5, 2020)

Apparently Syrian hamsters are easily infected with Coronavirus SARS viruses so they’re being used to study transmission etc, so I suppose rodents in general can carry Covid?


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 5, 2020)

Poor mice.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Oct 5, 2020)

frogwoman said:


> Poor mice.




I know.

 

Whenever I read an animal study or read of the results of an animal study I offer up a prayer of thanks and apologies to the Mouse Nation or the Rabbit Nation.

I also make sure that I spend some time considering those who have made my clothes etc.

I can’t change these things but I try to remain mindful and grateful rather than look away.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 6, 2020)

__





						Podcast Republic
					

Podcast Republic is one of the most popular podcast platforms on the world serving 1M+ podcasts and 500M+ episodes worldwide.



					www.podcastrepublic.net
				




Twiv special on Trump. Badgers SheilaNaGig two sheds


----------



## Cloo (Oct 6, 2020)

Good explanation about surface or air transmission from a virologist - in short, transmission by touch could happen but we don't really have any hard evidence that COVID has been transmitted from surfaces


----------



## MBV (Oct 12, 2020)

Has anyone taken a private test prior to travelling to Europe? If so, who did you use?


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2020)

Good piece about vaccines (no mention of Bill Gates)









						Coronavirus vaccine: what we know so far – a comprehensive guide by academic experts
					

Experts from across The Conversation look at how COVID-19 vaccines will work, how they’re being tested and manufactured, and what challenges there will be to rolling them out.




					theconversation.com


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 26, 2020)

Interesting discussion on this week's TWIV on herd immunity. 

Forget what you've herd about immunity. Episode: TWiV 675: Forget what you've herd about immunity Podcast Republic. Media: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/twivmp3/~5/EjHxqcfO--s/TWiV675.mp3. <p>Daniel Griffin provides a clinical report on COVID-19, then we discuss Bill Foege’s letter to CDC.... Sent from Podcast Republic.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2020)

Good collection of links about the benefits of mask wearing 



> A report, published in _Nature_ journal in April, said: “Face masks significantly reduced detection of influenza virus RNA in respiratory droplets and coronavirus RNA in aerosols, with a trend toward reduced detection of coronavirus RNA in respiratory droplets.”
> 
> Another study used high-speed video to track droplets and found even holding a washcloth over the mouth was effective in blocking the droplets (similarly a microbiologist shared photographs of bacteria culture spread with and without a mask).
> 
> ...











						Covid: How well do face masks protect us against the virus?
					

How effective are face masks?




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Doodler (Oct 28, 2020)

editor said:


> Good collection of links about the benefits of mask wearing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You would think some decent public information films would have been made and broadcast by now showing how far exhaled droplets travel, how they can carry viruses and what masks can do. Ad agencies already have a big box of tricks for making various health problems look tangible.


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2020)

This is a very clear set of illustrations 








						A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air
					

The risk of contagion is highest in indoor spaces but can be reduced by applying all available measures to combat infection via aerosols. Here is an overview of the likelihood of infection in three everyday scenarios, based on the safety measures used and the length of exposure




					english.elpais.com


----------



## ska invita (Oct 29, 2020)

editor said:


> This is a very clear set of illustrations
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes that seems really important
why i open all the windows on teh train


----------



## gentlegreen (Nov 16, 2020)

German Corona advert - english subtitles probably available.


----------



## Pingety Pong (Nov 16, 2020)

gentlegreen said:


> German Corona advert - english subtitles probably available.




Thank you, Gentlegreen! I am going to send this to my A Level German students tomorrow, some of whom are in their second or third period of self-isolation this term and are starting to get really fed up!


----------



## editor (Nov 30, 2020)

Excellent stuff









						5 Things An Actual Scientist Wants Anti-Vaxxers To Know About Covid Vaccines
					

More than 3.8m Brits have had a coronavirus vaccine. We asked an expert to counter some myths about the jabs.




					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk


----------



## editor (Dec 7, 2020)

Another excellent piece about vaccines




			https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html


----------



## Cloo (Dec 8, 2020)

NYT giving a good explanation of why vaccination is not just a matter of 'goodbye masks and distancing' and how the vaccine may develop over time: Here’s Why Vaccinated People Still Need to Wear a Mask


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 9, 2020)

Mrs SI insists she's following the Tier 3 rules but I think she's wrong. Daughter goes to Mrs SI's parents three evenings a week for childcare which is fine.

But I didn't think Mrs SI was allowed to go into her folks' house when she picks her up. And just five mins ago her da came round to take son to the gym and just walked into ours and started fussing the dogs.


----------



## Espresso (Dec 9, 2020)

If you're in Tier 3 you can only go into someone else's house if you (or they) are single and you're in a bubble with them.


----------



## prunus (Dec 9, 2020)

Espresso said:


> If you're in Tier 3 you can only go into someone else's house if you (or they) are single and you're in a bubble with them.



The same is true in tier 2 (in both cases for social purposes).


----------



## zora (Dec 9, 2020)

This is very good. How to have a holly, jolly, Covid-safe Christmas


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 10, 2020)

Anyone got any any idea about time stamping of PCR tests? We have some to return for testing that must be taken 72 hrs before our arrival in Tenerife at 14:30 on Friday 18th. If I do the kids at 7:30am, on Tuesday 15th, instead of after 14:30, will anyone know? The alternative is to do Wednesday morning, but that leaves us buggering around hoping the tests results are late back.....


----------



## 2hats (Dec 25, 2020)

Merry virusmas!


----------



## krink (Jan 1, 2021)

Hoping someone knows about this delaying the second jab. My mam is due her second one in a week and has an appointment, is this likely to be cancelled? She's 85 and shielding so if it does happen we might club our cash together and see if we can get her second one private as it's stressing our family to bits trying to keep her safe.


----------



## magneze (Jan 1, 2021)

It's unclear - wait and see before doing anything. Hopefully it'll just go ahead.


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 1, 2021)

krink said:


> Hoping someone knows about this delaying the second jab. My mam is due her second one in a week and has an appointment, is this likely to be cancelled? She's 85 and shielding so if it does happen we might club our cash together and see if we can get her second one private as it's stressing our family to bits trying to keep her safe.



Yes it's likely to be rescheduled and no you can't get it privately. The first jab will have had a strong protective effect itself, the second one is really to try and extend that long-term.


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 1, 2021)

magneze said:


> It's unclear - wait and see before doing anything. Hopefully it'll just go ahead.



Yes some GPs have said they will flout the new guidelines so there is a chance it may still happen. Much less likely if it was done in a hospital.


----------



## krink (Jan 1, 2021)

Cheers, I'll just have to keep everything crossed for good luck.


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2021)

New study on mask wearing:



*Key Summary Points*
Masks and face coverings, if widely worn, may substantially reduce the spread of COVID-19.

The benefits of mask wearing seem to outweigh the harms when COVID-19 is spreading in a population.

Randomized trials are sparse and have not addressed the question of source control.

Psychological effects of masks are culturally framed and shape acceptance and adherence.

Mandated masking involves a tradeoff with personal freedom.









						Masks and Face Coverings for the Lay Public: A Narrative Update: Annals of Internal Medicine: Vol 174, No 4
					

Whether and when to mandate the wearing of facemasks in the community to prevent the spread of coronavirus disease 2019 remains controversial. Published literature across disciplines about the role of masks in mitigating severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission...



					www.acpjournals.org


----------



## not a trot (Jan 10, 2021)

These fucking scammers. Wife who is shielding because of her diabetes and other conditions, received a text linking to the NHS site an hour ago. Inviting her to apply for a vaccine and to give card details to confirm who she is. Anyone less savvy could have fallen for it. Hope any cunt behind these scams fucking dies.


----------



## StoneRoad (Jan 10, 2021)

not a trot said:


> These fucking scammers. Wife who is shielding because of her diabetes and other conditions, received a text linking to the NHS site an hour ago. Inviting her to apply for a vaccine and to give card details to confirm who she is. Anyone less savvy could have fallen for it. Hope any cunt behind these scams fucking dies.


Yeah, I've had one of those - by email ...


----------



## two sheds (Jan 10, 2021)

I don't think the government has helped with those things by getting credit reference companies involved in test &trace.


----------



## zahir (Jan 14, 2021)

Recovering from Covid gives similar level of protection to vaccine
					

PHE found immunity from earlier infection provided 83% protection against reinfection for at least 20 weeks




					www.theguardian.com
				





> People who recover from coronavirus have a similar level of protection against future infection as those who receive a Covid vaccine – at least for the first five months, research suggests.
> 
> A Public Health England (PHE) study of more than 20,000 healthcare workers found that immunity acquired from an earlier Covid infection provided 83% protection against reinfection for at least 20 weeks.
> 
> The findings show that while people are unlikely to become reinfected soon after their first infection, it is possible to catch the virus again and potentially spread it to others.





> Over the five months the researchers monitored infection rates in the two groups. They spotted 44 potential reinfections, including 13 symptomatic, among the 6,614 believed to have had Covid before, and 318 cases among the 14,173 who had no evidence of past infection. A previous infection, they conclude, provides 94% protection against symptomatic reinfection, and 75% protection against asymptomatic reinfection.
> 
> The cases are referred to as “potential” reinfections because a detailed genetic analysis of both first and second viruses must be done to confirm a reinfection, but information for the first infections was often not available.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2021)

This looks handy 











						Have I got Covid, a bad cold or something else?
					

What are the new Covid symptoms, and when should I stay at home?



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## zahir (Jan 15, 2021)

editor said:


> This looks handy



Some of it looks misleading though.


----------



## Hyperdark (Jan 16, 2021)

In what way zahir ? do you mean all the "sometimes" that are mentioned?

Fatigue does seem far more common than sometimes from most reporting...though "sometimes" is a very vague term


----------



## zahir (Jan 16, 2021)

Hyperdark said:


> In what way zahir ? do you mean all the "sometimes" that are mentioned?
> 
> Fatigue does seem far more common than sometimes from most reporting...though "sometimes" is a very vague term



Partly that. Fatigue is definitely a common symptom. What jumped out at me though was describing a "runny/stuffy nose" as "rare". My initial symptoms were mild fatigue and nasal/sinus congestion - so I suppose  that would be a stuffy but not runny nose. Again, as I understand it, this is a common symptom. I think the graphic risks encouraging people to self-diagnose inaccurately and not self-isolate or get a test when really they should do.


----------



## krink (Jan 17, 2021)

Can someone put my anxious mind at ease please? If you've got a husband and wife, and the wife is in a bubble with her mother, the husband can't make another bubble with his mother can he? I'm sure it's what the website says but I'm that stressed I just need someone to confirm please (I'm on my own). Thank you.


----------



## iona (Jan 17, 2021)

krink said:


> Can someone put my anxious mind at ease please? If you've got a husband and wife, and the wife is in a bubble with her mother, the husband can't make another bubble with his mother can he? I'm sure it's what the website says but I'm that stressed I just need someone to confirm please (I'm on my own). Thank you.


Assuming the husband and wife live together, they can only form a support bubble with one other household (usually the other household needs to be a single person living alone but there's a few exceptions).


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2021)

Interesting info here about photographers working in a lockdown 









						Taking photos during the covid-19 lockdown...
					

Interesting articles here providing guidance for photographers during the lockdown:    Professional photography  A ‘reasonable excuse’ includes for work purposes, where you are unable to work from home. Therefore, if you are a professional photographer, it is permissible for you to travel for...




					www.urban75.net


----------



## krink (Jan 17, 2021)

Thank you iona they do indeed live together (and they're arseholes hence the stress bit) Youve put my mind at ease, cheers.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 17, 2021)

iona said:


> Assuming the husband and wife live together, they can only form a support bubble with one other household (usually the other household needs to be a single person living alone but there's a few exceptions).


Sounds unreasonable to me. I still visit with my brother’s and my sister’s families. Can’t see how it’s possible to do any different, though I guess this is about children rather than just adults


----------



## Sue (Jan 17, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Sounds unreasonable to me. I still visit with my brother’s and my sister’s families. *Can’t see how it’s possible to do any different*, though I guess this is about children rather than just adults


You don't go and visit them?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 17, 2021)

Sue said:


> You don't go and visit them?


yes but in the park and only one kid at a time


----------



## iona (Jan 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Sounds unreasonable to me. I still visit with my brother’s and my sister’s families. Can’t see how it’s possible to do any different, though I guess this is about children rather than just adults


That's the rules for support bubbles (support bubbles being people you're allowed to visit, stay overnight with, generally act as if you're part of the same household). There's other rules for childcare bubbles that I've never looked up coz they're not relevant to me. Sure, a few people will have complicated situations that mean they can't stick exactly to those rules but "unreasonable" and "[not] possible to do any different [than breaking those rules]"??


----------



## Sue (Jan 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> yes but in the park and only one kid at a time


 'meeting in the park' is a bit different to 'visiting with'...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 18, 2021)

Sue said:


> 'meeting in the park' is a bit different to 'visiting with'...


I thought visiting inside was banned?


----------



## Sue (Jan 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought visiting inside was banned?


It is which is why I was confused about your use of 'visiting with'.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought visiting inside was banned?


It is except within support bubbles. Making a support bubble with another household.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 18, 2021)

crossthebreeze said:


> It is except within support bubbles. Making a support bubble with another household.


Also childcare bubbles 








						[Withdrawn] Making a childcare bubble with another household
					

How you can get informal childcare for anyone under 14 from friends and family you do not live with.




					www.gov.uk


----------



## HAL9000 (Jan 20, 2021)

Its been mentioned before on this thread, a pulse oximeter can be a useful device to have.    I believe some gp surgeries have been giving out pulse oximeter's to high risk patients, to check if they need hospital treatment or not.

Its worth listening this program...










						Inside Health - Oximetry at home, Rapid lateral flow tests for Covid - BBC Sounds
					

Could measuring oxygen levels at home, when people have covid, save lives?




					www.bbc.co.uk
				





52 seconds
to
12 minute 24 seconds

Key points


Below a certain oxygen level, hospital treatment is needed, if a patient's oxygen level gets too low, hospital treatment may not help.  (listen to the audio for the details or have a look at this leaflet  https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...fety-Netting-Leaflet-Revised-FINAL-171220.pdf)
Use a pulse oximeter with a CE mark
Pulse oximeter in a smart watch/smart phone are inaccurate

(I would also suggest, if you do buy a pulse oximeter, try using it when you're healthy and makesure you get a sensible value (95% to 100%).    So that when you feel unwell and you have a lower than normal oxygen level, this is something real rather than an erroneous value, like forgetting to remove nail polish.  )


----------



## Ground Elder (Jan 20, 2021)

Free online tool calculates risk of COVID-19 transmission in poorly-ventilated spaces

airborne.cam




> ..researchers, from the University of Cambridge and Imperial College London, used mathematical models to show how SARS-CoV-2 - the virus which causes COVID-19 - spreads in different indoor spaces, depending on the size, occupancy, ventilation and whether masks are being worn. These models are also the basis of a free online tool, airborn.cam which helps users understand how ventilation and other measures affect the risk of indoor transmission, and how that risk changes over time.


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2021)

Interesting reading:









						Lost touch: how a year without hugs affects our mental health
					

Humans are designed to touch and be touched – which is why so many who live on their own have suffered during the pandemic. Will we ever fully recover?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## ska invita (Feb 6, 2021)

Why does Covid make people breathless? Ive tried to google but cant find a more medical (but understandable) answer as to why people experience breathing problems.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 6, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Why does Covid make people breathless? Ive tried to google but cant find a more medical (but understandable) answer as to why people experience breathing problems.


Excess fluid and umska in lungs from fighting the infection


----------



## Supine (Feb 6, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Why does Covid make people breathless? Ive tried to google but cant find a more medical (but understandable) answer as to why people experience breathing problems.



It's a respiratory desease!


----------



## ska invita (Feb 6, 2021)

Supine said:


> It's a respiratory desease!


Yes I got that bit lol! I'd like to know what is happening in my lungs exactly, id like to visualise it


----------



## Supine (Feb 6, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Yes I got that bit lol! I'd like to know what is happening in my lungs exactly, id like to visualise it



I'm bored so I've draw you a picture using my phone


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Why does Covid make people breathless? Ive tried to google but cant find a more medical (but understandable) answer as to why people experience breathing problems.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 7, 2021)

Interesting 









						spacebands | workplace safety technology
					

spacebands | making workplaces safer spaces




					www.spacebands.co.uk


----------



## zahir (Feb 24, 2021)

Thread with a summary of the research on transmission in schools.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2021)

The lightning-fast quest for COVID vaccines — and what it means for other diseases
					

The speedy approach used to tackle SARS-CoV-2 could change the future of vaccine science.




					www.nature.com


----------



## zahir (Mar 20, 2021)




----------



## zahir (Apr 1, 2021)

Airborne transmission









						Dismantling myths on the airborne transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2)
					

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has caused untold disruption throughout the world. Understanding the mechanisms for transmission of s…




					www.sciencedirect.com
				





> *Summary*
> The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has caused untold disruption throughout the world. Understanding the mechanisms for transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) is key to preventing further spread, but there is confusion over the meaning of ‘airborne’ whenever transmission is discussed. Scientific ambivalence originates from evidence published many years ago which has generated mythological beliefs that obscure current thinking. This article collates and explores some of the most commonly held dogmas on airborne transmission in order to stimulate revision of the science in the light of current evidence. Six ‘myths’ are presented, explained and ultimately refuted on the basis of recently published papers and expert opinion from previous work related to similar viruses. There is little doubt that SARS-CoV-2 is transmitted via a range of airborne particle sizes subject to all the usual ventilation parameters and human behaviour. Experts from specialties encompassing aerosol studies, ventilation, engineering, physics, virology and clinical medicine have joined together to produce this review to consolidate the evidence for airborne transmission mechanisms, and offer justification for modern strategies for prevention and control of COVID-19 in health care and the community.


----------



## zahir (Apr 18, 2021)

Thread on the evidence for airborne transmission


----------



## scifisam (May 13, 2021)

I'm trying to get in touch with my daughter's GP surgery because, despite being 22, she should be on the list for health reasons - the one that was expanded - due to being autistic. The surgery are very, very hard to get through to on the phone. They keep saying to book it online, but we can't (I've tried).

I know we won't actually have any choice when it comes to it, but is there any way to try to get her the Moderna or Pfeizer? I know, I know, I DO know that the risks are very low anyway, but she's in the (female, under 30)  group supposedly most affected, and is scared of injections overall, so anything I can do to reassure her will help. And I had a stroke when I was in my thirties (daughter found me half-drowned in the bath), and my Dad had a stroke in his fifties, so there's family history of it.

Whatever vaccine is on offer, I'll take her along to get it done, but it's logical to want the least risky one, right?

TBH I'm more concerned for her than I would be for me - I had AZ and am still only 45 (and still female) and am the one who actually had a stroke, but it's easier to be logical about your own risks than your child's.


----------



## elbows (May 14, 2021)

If you are in the UK then the official advice is already that under 40's should be offered a vaccine that is not the AZ one. It was originally under 30's but they increased it recently. There are caveats in the official position to give them a bit of wiggle room around the theme of 'if available' but the way it was discussed in the press makes it sound like non-AZ vaccine should be pretty routine for the younger age groups.



> Considering this alongside the portfolio of vaccines available in the UK in the coming months and taking a precautionary approach in relation to the extremely small risk of thrombosis and thrombocytopenia following the first dose of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, the JCVI has advised a preference for adults aged 30 to 39 without underlying health conditions to receive an alternative to the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine – where available and only if this does not cause substantial delays in being vaccinated.











						JCVI advises on COVID-19 vaccine for people aged under 40
					

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has issued advice to the UK government on the use of the coronavirus (COVID-19) Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine for people aged under 40.




					www.gov.uk
				




Ah I see that the 'health reasons' aspect somewhat complicates the picture, but it should still be easier for you to make a case to officialdom about this than it would have been if the ofificial advice for younger people did not lean away from AZ.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 21, 2021)

Guy in my office has had three of his students test positive with flow tests over the weekend. The NHS app pinged him and told him to self isolate. He hasn't, he's come to work after testing negative twice with LFTs. Everyone in the office totally blasé about it. Wtf


----------



## prunus (Jun 21, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Guy in my office has had three of his students test positive with flow tests over the weekend. The NHS app pinged him and told him to self isolate. He hasn't, he's come to work after testing negative twice with LFTs. Everyone in the office totally blasé about it. Wtf



Tell HR or whatever equivalent function you have? It’s a legal requirement to comply with the NHS app telling you to isolate (I think!) - while the guy likely doesn’t care and won’t get in trouble, the company might not want to be seen being complicit (which it would be after having been informed).


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2021)

prunus said:


> Tell HR or whatever equivalent function you have? It’s a legal requirement to comply with the NHS app telling you to isolate (I think!) - while the guy likely doesn’t care and won’t get in trouble, the company might not want to be seen being complicit (which it would be after having been informed).


I think catsbum works in an educational establishment, where normal rules don't appear to prevail.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 21, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I think catsbum works in an educational establishment, where normal rules don't appear to prevail.


Yeah, I'm at a college. Plus I don't really want to be "that guy". I'm just fucked off with the complacent attitude. I've just took stuff to an empty office, I'll work in here


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 22, 2021)

Update: I emailed my boss to say I didn't think procedures were being followed properly. She got in touch with a higher up who sent him home for ten days. Even after that a couple of people in the office were insisting he could come back if he tested negative, which is not the case if you've been pinged by the app. 

I emailed to clear it up with him and he hasn't replied. Suspect he's pissed off with me


----------



## existentialist (Jul 20, 2021)

I've just registered and downloaded my NHS Covid Pass, more out of interest than anything else.

And this is what it says:



Which is bollocks, because the vaccine I received on 18th June was the SECOND dose .

So now, presumably, I need to find someone to complain at to get the record corrected. 

This email address, on the page that gives me the link for the PDF, doesn't fill me with confidence, either...



> If you have any questions, email covid19cert.no-reply@nhs.net.



I've emailed the dodgy address, to see if it bounces...


----------



## two sheds (Jul 20, 2021)

Doesn't that QR code/pass give private information (inside leg etc)?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 20, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Doesn't that QR code/pass give private information (inside leg etc)?


You've only got half of it - if you can get anything useful out of it, you're welcome


----------



## two sheds (Jul 20, 2021)

is good, I don't understand these things anyway


----------



## scalyboy (Jul 26, 2021)

How long should I wait before doing the lateral flow test? Is it 24 hours after the last suspected exposure? Was on the tube yesterday afternoon and evening, rammed, especially on the way back around 9-10pm. First time I've had people sat next to me on both sides for ages. Most in the carriages I was in were masked up, but saw a few non-mask wearers, two (separate) of whom were sneezing and coughing...


----------



## zora (Jul 26, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> How long should I wait before doing the lateral flow test?


Tbh I don't think lateral flow tests are great for spot checks after one-off possible exposures; they are designed to pick out some asymptomatic cases in mass testing, not for individual diagnosis afaiu.

Sensitivity is a lot less than with PCR tests - a PCR test might give you a positive result 2-3 days before symptom start, so I imagine the very, very earliest you might get a positive lateral flow test result, if you had indeed been infected, would be 2-3 days after exposure, possibly a fair bit longer.

If you are concerned about exposure and infection, I would get into regular twice weekly lateral flow testing while it is available.


----------



## scalyboy (Jul 26, 2021)

zora said:


> Tbh I don't think lateral flow tests are great for spot checks after one-off possible exposures; they are designed to pick out some asymptomatic cases in mass testing, not for individual diagnosis afaiu.
> 
> Sensitivity is a lot less than with PCR tests - a PCR test might give you a positive result 2-3 days before symptom start, so I imagine the very, very earliest you might get a positive lateral flow test result, if you had indeed been infected, would be 2-3 days after exposure, possibly a fair bit longer.
> 
> If you are concerned about exposure and infection, I would get into regular twice weekly lateral flow testing while it is available.


Thanks - re. PCR testing, my understanding was that you could only get an NHS PCR test if you have symptoms (or pay large amounts of £££ to a private clinic).
I've got a couple of packs of the free NHS lateral flow tests and was going to do one today, then thought maybe I should wait if they are in short supply. I had heard they are less accurate than PCR and that some advice recommends if you get a positive test, do another test the next day to be more sure.

Was going to go out to the shops but it was nothing urgent, so can wait - just some porridge oats, and some peanuts for the squirrels.

Edited to add: have just ordered some lateral flow tests so it will be instructive to see how long they take to arrive, if there really is a shortage.

PS I reckon you're right about my getting into twice weekly testing rather than doing it as and when, especially as I will soon be commuting and going into the work office on a regular basis again.


----------



## elbows (Jul 26, 2021)

zora said:


> Tbh I don't think lateral flow tests are great for spot checks after one-off possible exposures; they are designed to pick out some asymptomatic cases in mass testing, not for individual diagnosis afaiu.



They are being used far more broadly than that, eg for individual regular testing.

There are things that lateral flow tests should not be relied on to prove, but I would not hesitate to use them in a range of scenarios including personal use given the relatively high bar for getting a PCR test.


----------



## zora (Jul 26, 2021)

Sorry if that wasn't clear, scalyboy, I only mentioned PCR tests for comparison in terms of time-frame; i.e. if the (more sensitive) PCR-test can't tell you for certain a day after exposure if you are infected (which it can't), a lateral flow test definitely can't.
I didn't mean to imply that you should get a PCR test, only people with symptoms or those who have been advised to get one in a particular set of circumstances should get those.

Sounds like your exposure was pretty much what a lot of us are exposed to now (busier trains etc), so I don't think you need to have any concerns about going to the shops; just wear a mask.

If you got a couple of packs of lateral flow tests (with 7 tests in each?) then doing them regularly twice weekly over the next several weeks would give you the best chance to catch any potential asymptomatic infection; better than trying to figure out what the best timing for a one- off test might be.

If you do get a positive result on a lateral flow test, it would qualify you for a free confirmatory pcr test.

ETA: Only just seen your edit, scalyboy, so some of this post was probably redundant. 
Hope tests turn up soon.


----------



## zora (Jul 26, 2021)

elbows said:


> They are being used far more broadly than that, eg for individual regular testing.
> 
> There are things that lateral flow tests should not be relied on to prove, but I would not hesitate to use them in a range of scenarios including personal use given the relatively high bar for getting a PCR test.


Yes, that's why I suggested doing regular self-tests. 
I do the twice weekly tests myself - maybe it's semantics whether to consider it individual or mass testing (yes, I do it as an individual, and admittedly it does give me some degree of confidence, but I'm also plugged in to the system of many other people doing the same thing). 

I just wanted to caution against the idea that you could pinpoint a time after a tube journey or other exposure and rule out infection with a LFT.


----------



## scalyboy (Jul 26, 2021)

zora said:


> Sounds like your exposure was pretty much what a lot of us are exposed to now (busier trains etc), so I don't think you need to have any concerns about going to the shops; just wear a mask...
> 
> If you got a couple of packs of lateral flow tests (with 7 tests in each?) then doing them regularly twice weekly over the next several weeks would give you the best chance to catch any potential asymptomatic infection;


Thanks - it was just that because I'd been shielding and then working from home, infrequently going on public transport, yesterday's packed trains (plus coughing and sneezing maskless passengers!) took me by surprise a bit.

That's it, packs of 7. And hopefully more in the post.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 26, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Thanks - re. PCR testing, my understanding was that you could only get an NHS PCR test if you have symptoms (or pay large amounts of £££ to a private clinic).
> I've got a couple of packs of the free NHS lateral flow tests and was going to do one today, then thought maybe I should wait if they are in short supply. I had heard they are less accurate than PCR and that some advice recommends if you get a positive test, do another test the next day to be more sure.
> 
> Was going to go out to the shops but it was nothing urgent, so can wait - just some porridge oats, and some peanuts for the squirrels.
> ...


I've just done a PCR test (part of the Zoe study). That's an appalling amount of blood they need - it's nearly a fingerful, FFS! 

(and I managed to spill at least as much as I got into the tiny little pot)


----------



## colacubes (Jul 26, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I've just done a PCR test (part of the Zoe study). That's an appalling amount of blood they need - it's nearly a fingerful, FFS!
> 
> (and I managed to spill at least as much as I got into the tiny little pot)


PCR test is a swab of the throat and nose usually. You sure you're not doing an antibody test?


----------



## two sheds (Jul 26, 2021)

You been watching The Blood Donor recently?


----------



## elbows (Jul 26, 2021)

Before this pandemic ZOE were doing things like getting people to eat 'specially formulated muffin meals' and then testing their blood.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 26, 2021)

colacubes said:


> PCR test is a swab of the throat and nose usually. You sure you're not doing an antibody test?


Sorry, yes, it's an antibody test, not a PCR one.


----------



## scalyboy (Jul 26, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I've just done a PCR test (part of the Zoe study). That's an appalling amount of blood they need - it's nearly a fingerful, FFS!
> 
> (and I managed to spill at least as much as I got into the tiny little pot)


I'm on an ONS survey where you self-test every 5 weeks; previously they were just taking nose/throat swab samples, but the last 2 or 3 times (i.e. after the vaccine rollout) they've taken blood too, to check antibody levels. They tried getting people to do self-tests for blood with those disposable lancet devices into the tip of a finger, but I couldn't get more than a tiny drop and the feller said "don't worry, hardly anyone can manage it".

Now they're still using these devices but the health visitor does it. This week she got a surprising amount of claret from me, I was also thinking Hancock (Tony, not the philandering twat)

Were you using something like this (image)? Did you do it yourself? If so you're a better man than me, I just couldn't extract enough blood. I'd be a rubbish vampire


----------



## existentialist (Jul 26, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> I'm on an ONS survey where you self-test every 5 weeks; previously they were just taking nose/throat swab samples, but the last 2 or 3 times (i.e. after the vaccine rollout) they've taken blood too, to check antibody levels. They tried getting people to do self-tests for blood with those disposable lancet devices into the tip of a finger, but I couldn't get more than a tiny drop and the feller said "don't worry, hardly anyone can manage it".
> 
> Now they're still using these devices but the health visitor does it. This week she got a surprising amount of claret from me, I was also thinking Hancock (Tony, not the philandering twat)
> 
> Were you using something like this (image)? Did you do it yourself? If so you're a better man than me, I just couldn't extract enough blood. I'd be a rubbish vampire


That makes me feel better! I had no problem getting myself to bleed, but doing it in a way which didn't result in blood dripping everywhere except down the (tiny) neck of the bottle was quite a challenge...

Being on aspirin as a blood thinner probably helps, TBF...


----------



## Cloo (Jul 30, 2021)

Quite a good article here if you need to explain things to someone about 'But why are vaccinated people still getting COVID?'









						Your Vaccinated Immune System Is Ready for Breakthroughs
					

Getting COVID-19 when you’re vaccinated isn’t the same as getting COVID-19 when you’re unvaccinated.




					www.theatlantic.com


----------



## Aladdin (Jul 30, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Sorry, yes, it's an antibody test, not a PCR one.



I've sent off for one of those...and THEN watched the video where they described what to do.

I was a bit surprised at the way they described how I will have to "milk my finger"...
😳
And they then said if I dont get enough blood from the little finger I can go to another finger....cos the bottle needs filling.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 31, 2021)

Sugar Kane said:


> I've sent off for one of those...and THEN watched the video where they described what to do.
> 
> I was a bit surprised at the way they described how I will have to "milk my finger"...
> 😳
> And they then said if I dont get enough blood from the little finger I can go to another finger....cos the bottle needs filling.


I didn't bother with the video, but yes, it was rather like milking, now you mention it...!


----------



## poului (Aug 3, 2021)

Anyone know if the Covid travel test using your saliva is accepted by the British authorities when entering the UK? I'm hoping to travel to London from Madrid this Saturday but would prefer to avoid taking a test that involves anything up my nose, but also want to be sure a saliva accepted would be accepted when I travel.


----------



## zora (Aug 3, 2021)

poului said:


> Anyone know if the Covid travel test using your saliva is accepted by the British authorities when entering the UK? I'm hoping to travel to London from Madrid this Saturday but would prefer to avoid taking a test that involves anything up my nose, but also want to be sure a saliva accepted would be accepted when I travel.



It's complicated! I'm just researching similar for my return flight to the UK next week.

I found this pretty up-to-date article on Which? about covid tests for travelling.








						Where can I get a cheap COVID-19 test to travel? Can I get one for free? - Which? News
					

Ordering a COVID-19 test via your airline, holiday company or at the airport could save families hundreds of pounds




					www.which.co.uk
				




Part-way through the article was a link to this piece from May about saliva tests which didn't seem to be acceptable at many destinations at the time, but doesn't explicitly answer your question afaict. 








						Covid tests available through British Airways not accepted by some major holiday destinations - Which? News
					

New 'Fit to Fly' saliva PCR tests may not meet current standards for Australia, Greece, Italy, Portugal and other countries




					www.which.co.uk
				




You might want to ask again on the "Do you disapprove of people who are planning an overseas holiday this summer"-thread, as there are several people discussing test requirements for travel atm on there.


----------



## poului (Aug 3, 2021)

zora said:


> It's complicated! I'm just researching similar for my return flight to the UK next week.
> 
> I found this pretty up-to-date article on Which? about covid tests for travelling.
> 
> ...



Cheers!


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 10, 2021)

Some advice and facts for people with autoimmune diseases and other underlying health issues:









						COVID Vaccine & Autoimmune Disease FAQ
					

Do you want to know more about the COVID-19 vaccine and autoimmune disease? We answer the most frequently asked questions on our FAQ page!




					www.autoimmuneinstitute.org
				












						COVID-19 Vaccination Considerations for Persons with Underlying Medica
					

If you have an underlying medical condition, this can help you make an informed decision about getting a COVID-19 vaccination.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## Aladdin (Aug 10, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> COVID-19 Vaccination Considerations for Persons with Underlying Medica
> 
> 
> If you have an underlying medical condition, this can help you make an informed decision about getting a COVID-19 vaccination.
> ...



Some of that is actually not so accurate. And not as up to date as may be thought. Particularly the reference to vaccines and Guillaine Barre. 

GB has occurred in numbers of vaccinated patients.  





						Statement of the WHO Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (GACVS) COVID-19 subcommittee on reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) following adenovirus vector COVID-19 vaccines
					

On 13 and 20 July 2021, the COVID-19 subcommittee of the WHO Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (GACVS) met virtually to discuss rare reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) following vaccination with the Janssen and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccines. Both vaccines use an adenovirus...




					www.who.int


----------



## Cloo (Oct 23, 2021)

Does anyone here happen to know what the requirements are now for a 13 year old travelling to Italy? My in-laws are taking our oldest for a long weekend to Venice on Thursday as a bat mitzvah present and despite searching all combinations of words I can't find a straight answer - anything that actually just says what, if any, tests she needs to do, what evidence she needs to present at airport going out, entering Italy etc. She has had her jab, but only a fortnight ago. AFAIK she can definitely go, and she doesn't have to quarantine, but the test situation is unclear. Some sources are saying only LFTs after Monday, but can't seem to find a clear answer anywhere.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 27, 2021)

Quick reminder as the nights draw in............ _VITAMIN D _


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

_Russ_ said:


> Quick reminder as the nights draw in............ _VITAMIN D _


We should be taking it all year round


----------



## petee (Nov 4, 2021)

I'm shocked









						Ivermectin Study Retracted After Data Found To Be Completely Wrong
					

A major study reported by 90 media outlets, mainly right leaning sites, has been retracted after critical flaws to data collection and analysis were identified.




					crooksandliars.com


----------



## zahir (Nov 9, 2021)

Thread






			Improving the early identification of COVID-19 pneumonia: a narrative review | BMJ Open Respiratory Research
		



> Delayed presentation of COVID-19 pneumonia increases the risk of mortality and need for high-intensity healthcare. Conversely, early identification of COVID-19 pneumonia grants an opportunity to intervene early and thus prevent more complicated, protracted and less successful hospital admissions. To improve the earlier detection of COVID-19 pneumonia in the community we provide a narrative review of current evidence examining the clinical parameters associated with early disease progression...


----------



## Mation (Dec 5, 2021)

On why we should trust a positive lateral flow test.


----------



## elbows (Dec 5, 2021)

Yeah I get a bit depressed when people here have a positive lateral flow test but then have a negative PCR and conclude they dont have Covid. Especially as it feels somehow cruel to point out to them right then that false PCR negatives are a thing, so I tend to stay silent.


----------



## elbows (Dec 7, 2021)

On that same theme:


----------



## Sue (Dec 7, 2021)

elbows said:


> Yeah I get a bit depressed when people here have a positive lateral flow test but then have a negative PCR and conclude they dont have Covid. Especially as it feels somehow cruel to point out to them right then that false PCR negatives are a thing, so I tend to stay silent.


So what do you suggest? If people have a negative PCR, they act like it was positive? In which case, what's the point of having a PCR test? Why not just rely on the positive LFT?

(Not really sure why it depresses you tbh. )


----------



## Numbers (Dec 7, 2021)

Sue said:


> So what do you suggest? If people have a negative PCR, they act like it was positive? In which case, what's the point of having a PCR test? Why not just rely on the positive LFT?
> 
> (Not really sure why it depresses you tbh. )


Recently I tested positive (2 very faint lines) on 2 x LFT the same day, but then negative on PCR the same day and subsequently negative on LFT - I may have been wrong but then assumed I was clear and went about and have continued to go about my business as usual.


----------



## elbows (Dec 7, 2021)

Sue said:


> So what do you suggest? If people have a negative PCR, they act like it was positive? In which case, what's the point of having a PCR test? Why not just rely on the positive LFT?
> 
> (Not really sure why it depresses you tbh. )


People should indeed consider the possibility that they have it and could transmit it to others.

I'm not being some extreme weirdo by saying this. Here is the article the last tweet I posted linked to:

It depresses me because its one of the holes in our defences and ability to reduce transmission. And because I'd hoped more people were aware of it.









						What’s the value of a confirmatory PCR test? | David Spiegelhalter and Anthony Masters
					

A positive lateral flow test, followed by a negative PCR, still means a reasonable chance of Covid-19




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## 2hats (Dec 7, 2021)

Sue said:


> So what do you suggest? If people have a negative PCR, they act like it was positive? In which case, what's the point of having a PCR test? Why not just rely on the positive LFT?


The PCR sample can be sequenced and so contribute to the understanding of the situation (facilitate forecasting, planning, identification of new variants and implications thereof).


----------



## Numbers (Dec 7, 2021)

With my recent experience elbows can there be any explanation?  The batch of LFTs I used I’d also used the 2 weeks before (and have used since) + my missus used same batch the same day.


----------



## Sue (Dec 7, 2021)

elbows said:


> People should indeed consider the possibility that they have it and could transmit it to others.
> 
> I'm not being some extreme weirdo by saying this. Here is the article the last tweet I posted linked to:
> 
> ...


People are doing what's been asked of them and have been told they're good to go after a negative PCR test so it's not surprising they're unaware of that ^.  🤷‍♀️ 

And I imagine many employers would give you very short shrift if you didn't go into work as you had a positive LFT, followed by a negative PCR but tell them you think you might have it anyway...


----------



## elbows (Dec 7, 2021)

I'm only talking about it now to inform people. I'm allowed to be depressed about it if I want to, and I'm not having a go at anybody. I wasnt even the first to bring it up here.


----------



## elbows (Dec 7, 2021)

Numbers said:


> With my recent experience elbows can there be any explanation?  The batch of LFTs I used I’d also used the 2 weeks before (and have used since) + my missus used same batch the same day.


I can only point to the sort of numbers given in that Guardian article. Your PCR test may have been a false negative. The LFT could have been a false positive. But there is a difference between the estimated chances of each of those. Taken together, there is estimated to be a greater chance that you had Covid than that you didnt, but its still possible you didnt.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 19, 2021)

elbows said:


> People should indeed consider the possibility that they have it and could transmit it to others.
> 
> I'm not being some extreme weirdo by saying this. Here is the article the last tweet I posted linked to:
> 
> ...


Thanks, that's useful to know


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 23, 2021)

What's the latest on vaccines preventing long Covid or limiting it? I think that's both me and wife's biggest concern right now. Both triple jabbed and impatient to start actually doing things again.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 23, 2021)

Artaxerxes said:


> What's the latest on vaccines preventing long Covid or limiting it? I think that's both me and wife's biggest concern right now. Both triple jabbed and impatient to start actually doing things again.


I think it's too early to tell - it certainly hasn't featured heavily on the forums I follow ...

I don't see being triple-jabbed as any reason to take my mask off or get close to people - even my own family any time soon.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Dec 23, 2021)

something on the MSM/TV news tonight about boosters waning by 15/25% after 10/12 weeks from UKHSA.


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

I know I'm probably being incredibly thick but I have only recently downloaded the NHS app and I cannot see how to access my vaccination history on it. Need it for a venue I am going to tomorrow.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2021)

nagapie said:


> I know I'm probably being incredibly thick but I have only recently downloaded the NHS app and I cannot see how to access my vaccination history on it. Need it for a venue I am going to tomorrow.


It’s in the Your Health section


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s in the Your Health section


I don't see that section. Have I got the wrong app? I have: check into venue, check symptoms, testing, enter test result, settings, about this app, ,manage contact tracing.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2021)

nagapie said:


> I don't see that section. Have I got the wrong app? I have: check into venue, check symptoms, testing, enter test result, settings, about this app, ,manage contact tracing.


That’s the NHS Covid App, not the NHS App - that has your Covid Passport and vaccine record on it.


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> That’s the NHS Covid App, not the NHS App - that has your Covid Passport and vaccine record on it.


Ah. Yes, I did think I might have the wrong one. Thanks, will take a look as taking the youngest to see a play.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Ah. Yes, I did think I might have the wrong one. Thanks, will take a look as taking the youngest to see a play.


I think the NHS Covid app is just for tracking contacts. I’ve only just turned mine on since getting a new phone ages ago - no wonder I never get pinged


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

Crap, apparently it will take 24hrs to notify me if everything has passed their checks. What do I do if I don't have it in time? I don't have any LF tests.


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I think the NHS Covid app is just for tracking contacts. I’ve only just turned mine on since getting a new phone ages ago - no wonder I never get pinged


I didn't have mine on and couldn't understand why everyone was getting time off work except me before the summer .


----------



## existentialist (Dec 28, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Crap, apparently it will take 24hrs to notify me if everything has passed their checks. What do I do if I don't have it in time? I don't have any LF tests.


You can go to the government site and get a PDF of your vaccination status, which you can either print out, or carry on your phone.


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

existentialist said:


> You can go to the government site and get a PDF of your vaccination status, which you can either print out, or carry on your phone.


Do you mean instantly? Which is this government site you speak of please?


----------



## existentialist (Dec 28, 2021)

nagapie said:


> Do you mean instantly? Which is this government site you speak of please?


Thinking about it, it's nhs.uk, not a .gov site. But then if your registration isn't validated on the app, it probably won't be on the site, either 

Perhaps an Urbanite near you has a spare LFT?


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Thinking about it, it's nhs.uk, not a .gov site. But then if your registration isn't validated on the app, it probably won't be on the site, either
> 
> Perhaps an Urbanite near you has a spare LFT?


I can probably get an LFT if I have to from our neighbourhood Whatsapp group. It's just all a bit of a hassle, especially as the event is outdoors.


----------



## nagapie (Dec 28, 2021)

Panic for nothing, my identity is confirmed and I can see all my vaccine dates.


----------



## Cloo (Jan 4, 2022)

So I'm using an FFP2 mask when I'm going to be anywhere enclosed for more than 10-15 mins. Not going out for that long that often but I don't like the waste - I saw some advice online, but don't know how reputable it is, suggesting you can put one in a dated envelope and reuse one every 5 days (presumably to avoid risk of infectious particles being present inside). Anyobe know if there is any reason not to do this to save waste?


----------



## existentialist (Jan 4, 2022)

Cloo said:


> So I'm using an FFP2 mask when I'm going to be anywhere enclosed for more than 10-15 mins. Not going out for that long that often but I don't like the waste - I saw some advice online, but don't know how reputable it is, suggesting you can put one in a dated envelope and reuse one every 5 days (presumably to avoid risk of infectious particles being present inside). Anyobe know if there is any reason not to do this to save waste?


I used FFP2 exclusively now, and rotate 4 or 5. I don't do the envelope thing, though - just hang them in my "hall" (stairwell)


----------



## elbows (Jan 13, 2022)

This is the website where people over 50 or with one of the listed medical conditions can sign up to get antivirals if they catch covid these days:






						Homepage — PANORAMIC
					

Homepage of the PANORAMIC trial, a UK-wide clinical study sponsored by the University of Oxford and funded by the National Institute for Health and Care Research to find out in which people new antiviral treatments for COVID-19 in the community reduce the need for hospital admission and get...




					www.panoramictrial.org


----------



## Cloo (Jan 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> This is the website where people over 50 or with one of the listed medical conditions can sign up to get antivirals if they catch covid these days:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, have passed on to my parents and in-laws. I can imagine my folks might be interested in participating - also they're waiting to see if they catch it as their cleaner found out she had COVID a few days after visiting them this week


----------



## Mation (Jan 16, 2022)

We've all been given CO² monitors for our classrooms, as only a couple have windows that can be opened. Ventilation comes from air conditioning units that draw from outside rather than recirculate.

The advice is that, if we see readings going up over 1500 parts per million (ppm), we should definitely open the door to purge the room, and should consider doing so between 800-1500 ppm. Below 800 ppm, an occupied room is considered to be well-ventilated (though not necessarily sufficiently so), assuming the monitor is placed correctly, at head height when seated, away from doors/windows/drafts/noses and mouths, and the room is of the right sort of size for readings to be meaningful (which our classrooms are).

I plan to keep the door open as much as possible, but forsee that there will be times when it would be useful to shut out distraction, given my exceedingly distractible learners. My worry is that purging the room won't be that protective if we're exposed to a repeated build-up of exhalations (that may contain the virus) in between purges.

Anyone know about using CO ² monitors as a control measure, rather than as a flag for improving ventilation more permanently?


----------



## tommers (Jan 16, 2022)

Daughter's tested positive on an LFT.

What's isolation at the moment? 7 days? And do we need to get a PCR?

Got us in the end.  

Oh, this says you don't need a PCR and maybe 5 days isolation. PCR tests - Kent County Council

Blimey.

But this says you do need to get a PCR and isolate for at least 7 days. FFS. 









						What to do if you have coronavirus (COVID-19) or symptoms of COVID-19
					

Advice on staying at home (self-isolation) and avoiding contact with others if you have tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19) or have symptoms of COVID-19




					www.nhs.uk


----------



## _Russ_ (Jan 16, 2022)

tommers said:


> Daughter's tested positive on an LFT. What's isolation at the moment? 7 days? And do we need to get a PCR? Got us in the end.  Oh, this says you don't need a PCR and maybe 5 days isolation. PCR tests - Kent County Council Blimey. But this says you do need to get a PCR and isolate for at least 7 days. FFS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It depends on whether its symptomatic or not, if it is you go get a PCR


----------



## Cloo (Jan 16, 2022)

I have symptomatic covid and it said no need for PCR, unless I was on a research trial or needed to apply for financial help. 

tommers  - BBC info on isolation here is useful: What are the Covid self-isolation rules now?

I also want to add potentially useful info that if anyone with a fairly mild case has a sore throat and a slight cough like me, I've found Covonia dry & tickly cough linctus is helpful for relief, especially if you throat/coughing is waking you at night.


----------



## _Russ_ (Jan 16, 2022)

> I have symptomatic covid and it said no need for PCR, unless I was on a research trial or needed to apply for financial help.



Where is that stated?


----------



## Cloo (Jan 16, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> Where is that stated?


When I reported the LFT result online - it said I didn't require PCR unless I was on a research trial, needed to claim a payment or one other thing that I can't remember what it was. basically I think they're trying to save on PCRs!


----------



## tommers (Jan 16, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> Where is that stated?


That kent guidance says that. The nhs one says get a test.


----------



## _Russ_ (Jan 16, 2022)

tommers said:


> That kent guidance says that. The nhs one says get a test.


FFS, very soon there will be a dramatic drop in recorded cases and the twats in charge will be running around saying its all over (again)

ETA, id be taking the original NHS guidance and getting a PCR if Symptomatic (even then its resulting in under reporting of headline case numbers making things look to be improving far more than they are)


----------



## elbows (Jan 16, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> FFS, very soon there will be a dramatic drop in recorded cases and the twats in charge will be running around saying its all over (again)



The first bit of that is already happening, although some of it is probably due to an actual drop in the number of new infections.

The removal of confirmatory PCR is supposed to be a temporary measure, it has been said that they will bring it back once the wave is at a much lower point. They did it to preserve some other parts of the system because for example there was a nasty lab backlog at one point that was affecting NHS & care home staff testing regimes and the timeliness of test results.

I was under the impression that they only removed the requirement for asymptomiatic cases, though I need to check that again and I think the press did a poor job of highlighting that aspect.


----------



## _Russ_ (Jan 16, 2022)

> I was under the impression that they only removed the requirement for asymptomiatic caes, though I need to check that again and I think the press did a poor job of highlighting that aspect.



We can blame the press but isnt it the governments responsibility to make sure this information is properly and clearly disseminated?, fucking shower


----------



## elbows (Jan 16, 2022)

Well you wont find me defending the government in this pandemic, and their failure to hold regular press conferences is terrible.


----------



## Mation (Jan 16, 2022)

elbows said:


> I was under the impression that they only removed the requirement for asymptomiatic cases, though I need to check that again and I think the press did a poor job of highlighting that aspect.


That's what I'd thought, too. But the link below seems to say that you don't need a follow-up PCR if you've had a positive lateral flow test result, symptomatic or asymptomatic.

You're  advised to get a PCR if you have symptoms - asap after they develop - and have not yet had a positive lateral flow.

You have to take a PCR if you're claiming a payment or are in Wales or NI, and are clinically vulnerable.









						Who can still get free Covid tests across the UK and can I buy LFTs?
					

Most people in England and Scotland no longer get free PCRs or LFTs, and rules vary across the rest of the UK.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				





> *If you have no symptoms:*
> Across the UK, if you test positive for Covid with a lateral flow test (LFT), there is no longer any need to book a PCR test to confirm that result.





> The guidance that positive LFTs don't need a confirmatory PCR will remain in place while Covid case levels are high. Under these conditions, the vast majority of people with positive LFT results are extremely likely to have coronavirus.





> People who are eligible for the £500 test and trace payment in England will be asked to take a PCR so they can access financial support.





> Clinically vulnerable people in Wales and Northern Ireland are also still advised to take a PCR test after a positive LFT.





> *If you have symptoms:*
> If you have Covid symptoms - a cough, a fever or a loss of taste or smell - you should take a PCR test as soon as possible, and self-isolate while you wait for the result.
> ...
> However, if you have already tested positive on a LFT, you should self-isolate and do not need to take a follow up PCR.


----------



## Cloo (Jan 18, 2022)

Yeah, it clearly advised me I didn't need a PCR when I reported positive LFT. What I don't know is how the potential Day 5/7 release will interact with reporting systems, as not sure if they have been updated in some way so that when you report x2 negative results, Test & Trace know you're not skipping statutory isolation if you go out and about? 

Not that I'm rushing to get us out of the house. Son's Day5 was still positive and I reckon will remain so for at least another 2 days (TBH relieved it was +, I'd rather he didn't go back to school too soon); I can do day 5 tomorrow but I don't think I'm leaving the house before the weekend at earliest come what may.


----------



## teqniq (Jan 18, 2022)

This appears to be genuine (peer reviewed, link to US national library of medicine on their web page):









						Cannabis Compounds Prevent Covid in New Study
					

Cannabis compounds prevented the virus that causes Covid-19 from penetrating healthy human cells, according to a laboratory study published in the Journal of Nature Products. The two compounds commonly found in hemp -- called cannabigerolic acid, or CBGA, and can




					nationalhempservice.co.uk


----------



## Petcha (Jan 22, 2022)

Does anyone know if people are getting 4th jabs?

My company is telling us to come back into the office as of Monday. I have reduced lung capacity so have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, so im effectively a couple of months ahead of everyone else. So I got the third jab about 2 months ago, maybe more. I'm really not too comfortable about going back into an office of 70 people, getting there on crowded public transport. I told management I'd wait till my 4th jab which got a rather muted response but they couldn't really say no.

But are they actually giving out 4th jabs? Had a look online and it was all a bit ambiguous. The implicit message is that I should be going in and I'm not being workshy but I'd like the 4th one first, maybe I'm stupid. But I don't really fancy dying to save Boris' political career.


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## l'Otters (Jan 23, 2022)

Don't know anything about the schedule of such a thing, but I filled out a covid risk assessment form yesterday and when it came to entering what covid vaccines you'd had there was a drop-down menu to enter the date for your "booster" and another to enter the date for your "second booster" 

So seems like they're in the pipeline. If that's anything to go on.


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## gentlegreen (Jan 23, 2022)

l'Otters said:


> Don't know anything about the schedule of such a thing, but I filled out a covid risk assessment form yesterday and when it came to entering what covid vaccines you'd had there was a drop-down menu to enter the date for your "booster" and another to enter the date for your "second booster"
> 
> So seems like they're in the pipeline. If that's anything to go on.


Inevitable if they're dropping masking - but there has been massive infection even with (theoretically) masking, testing and tracing ...


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## elbows (Jan 23, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Does anyone know if people are getting 4th jabs?
> 
> My company is telling us to come back into the office as of Monday. I have reduced lung capacity so have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, so im effectively a couple of months ahead of everyone else. So I got the third jab about 2 months ago, maybe more. I'm really not too comfortable about going back into an office of 70 people, getting there on crowded public transport. I told management I'd wait till my 4th jab which got a rather muted response but they couldn't really say no.
> 
> But are they actually giving out 4th jabs? Had a look online and it was all a bit ambiguous. The implicit message is that I should be going in and I'm not being workshy but I'd like the 4th one first, maybe I'm stupid. But I don't really fancy dying to save Boris' political career.


People with a range of conditions were classed as needing a 3rd shot as part of their primary vaccination, and this was not considered to be a booster for them. Therefore their eventual booster would be their 4th shot. I dont have any knowledge about the scheduling of the 4th shot though.


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## friedaweed (Jan 23, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Does anyone know if people are getting 4th jabs?
> 
> My company is telling us to come back into the office as of Monday. I have reduced lung capacity so have always been at the front of the queue for jabs, so im effectively a couple of months ahead of everyone else. So I got the third jab about 2 months ago, maybe more. I'm really not too comfortable about going back into an office of 70 people, getting there on crowded public transport. I told management I'd wait till my 4th jab which got a rather muted response but they couldn't really say no.
> 
> But are they actually giving out 4th jabs? Had a look online and it was all a bit ambiguous. The implicit message is that I should be going in and I'm not being workshy but I'd like the 4th one first, maybe I'm stupid. But I don't really fancy dying to save Boris' political career.



You can get your 4th dose 3 months or 91days after your third if you are over 12 and have a weakened immune system.










						How to get an additional primary dose of the coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine
					

Find out who needs an additional primary dose of the coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine and how to get it.




					www.nhs.uk
				




You can go to a walk in for this or make an appointment. The 4th will be your booster.



> ETA You'll need to bring a letter from a doctor confirming you're eligible for a 3rd dose to your appointment.


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## zahir (Feb 13, 2022)

Reasons to be wary about assumptions about outdoor transmission, a thread.


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