# Gong Baths and guided meditation now in Brixton...at effraspace



## Alimadee (Mar 31, 2017)

If you've never had a Gong Bath and you're curious to try it, this is what to expect. 

No water is involved; the pulses of sound from the gongs wash over the body and cause the cells to vibrate sympathetically with the frequencies produced by the instruments, delivering a massage at a level below conscious awareness - though sometimes this can be felt as tingling sensations in the body.

The effect can be to stimulate a healing response in muscles, joints, and tendons, and - because the brain easily enters a meditative brainwave state, there may also be a reduction in stress responses.

Nothing is required of you except to turn up, lie down, and chill out. 
A Gong Bath with guided meditation is a time when you can give yourself permission to do something only for you; a sanctuary to which you can retreat to refresh and renew your body, mind, and spirit, gently guided by someone who is focused on your wellbeing.

One hour of Gong Bathing is equivalent to several hours sleep, it is said, so prepare yourself for maximum restoration and repose! The guided relaxation and meditation will ease you into Alpha and Theta brainwave states, when your brain will match the frequency of the Schumann Resonance, the veritable pulse of the Earth! 

What is the Schumann Resonance and Why Is It Essential For Your Health? - Be Well Buzz

Gong Baths are contra-indicated if you are pregnant, have a pacemaker, or suffer from serious mental illness. Some medical implants are fine: please ask me first! Gong Bathing is otherwise beneficial for all.

_‘It is commonly known by indigenous people that high-frequency vibrations activate consciousness, nourish what is hungry or weak, heal what is sick and invite in the most luminous forces of Nature.”

Arkan Lushwala, tribal elder.

You can find Gong Baths at effraspace, Effra Parade, Brixton, every month; and fortnightly at Zen Yoga, 2d Camberwell Grove SE5

www.earthsongsoundhealing.com

effraspace
Home - zenyoga.org.uk_


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## urbanspaceman (Mar 31, 2017)

Welcome Alimadee to U75

You make several claims about Gong Baths in your message. I would find it helpful if you could substantiate any of them with citations or references.

In particular:

proof that healing (presumably you mean immune) response is elevated 
proof that stress response is moderated
explanation of "activate consciousness" means
"heal what is sick". What specific medical claims are you making ? 
medical implants which are acceptable and which are not
dangers posed by gong therapy to pregnant women, pacemaker users or the people with mental illness


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

Also, if "one hour of Gong Bathing is equivalent to several hours sleep" how many nights of sleep can be replaced entirely by gong bathing on a continuous basis without the symptoms of sleep deprivation arsing?


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## Sirena (Mar 31, 2017)

I've been to a gong bath and it's a cool and relaxing experience.

If you want to understand it, you should go along and experience it, 'stead of sitting on your keyboards.


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I've been to a gong bath and it's a cool and relaxing experience.
> 
> If you want to understand it, you should go along and experience it, 'stead of sitting on your keyboards.



No one is denying it may be a relaxing experience. It's being sold as being lots of other things by the OP though...


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## urbanspaceman (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I've been to a gong bath and it's a cool and relaxing experience.
> 
> If you want to understand it, you should go along and experience it, 'stead of sitting on your keyboards.


I can completely appreciate that it's a cool and relaxing experience. No arguments there. But certain medical claims are made by Alimadee, and that's what I'm interested in finding out more about.


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## pengaleng (Mar 31, 2017)

this is fucked up lunacy, people should just see their normal dr


what does yer gong diagnose?

e2a: fuck off you weirdo


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## EastEnder (Mar 31, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> ....
> 
> One hour of Gong Bathing is equivalent to several hours sleep, it is said, so prepare yourself for maximum restoration and repose!* The guided relaxation and meditation will ease you into Alpha and Theta brainwave states, when your brain will match the frequency of the Schumann Resonance, the veritable pulse of the Earth! *
> 
> ...


Schumann resonances are classified as ELF (extremely _low_ frequency), in the range 3Hz through 60Hz, the lower of which would be inaudible to the human ear.

Please explain how these can simultaneously be "high-frequency vibrations" that "activate consciousness".

Also, if they're needed in order to "activate consciousness", does that mean everyone is, prior to the gongs, unconscious?


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## Sirena (Mar 31, 2017)

You could make the same broad medical claims (and give the same warnings) about dancing to psytrance for an hour.

It takes you out of yourself and your concerns (by allowing your body and mind to express itself to sound) and makes you feel better.

You're just bored and quibbling.


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## urbanspaceman (Mar 31, 2017)

Alimadee's reference contains further medical claims, and the author refers to experiments and studies, but sadly does not provide citations. Alimadee - could you point me at those citations ?

I'm particularly interested in how Schumann resonance benefits include "_anti-mind control_"


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## EastEnder (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> You could make the same broad medical claims (and give the same warnings) about dancing to psytrance for an hour.
> 
> It takes you out of yourself and your concerns (by allowing your body and mind to express itself to sound) and makes you feel better.
> 
> You're just bored and quibbling.


There is a profound difference between saying:

"Hey, try this cool thing that might make you feel good"

and 

"Hey, try this cool thing that might make you feel good, and here's a bunch of bullshit pseudoscience to back it up".

The former is _absolutely fine_, no problem with that _whatsoever_. That latter is bullshit.

If something makes you feel good, that's great, get on with it. But don't try and wrap it up in nonsensical pseudoscientific arse gravy.


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## urbanspaceman (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> You could make the same broad medical claims (and give the same warnings) about dancing to psytrance for an hour.
> 
> It takes you out of yourself and your concerns (by allowing your body and mind to express itself to sound) and makes you feel better.
> 
> You're just bored and quibbling.


While it's true that I do have the morning off (soon to end sadly), recent world events - I think you know the ones - have really made me think about how the importance of truth and facts is being questioned. 


EastEnder said:


> There is a profound difference between saying:
> 
> "Hey, try this cool thing that might make you feel good"
> 
> ...


This harsh, profanity-laced, almost bullying response to a new poster is not exactly welcoming. Would you talk to her/him in real life like that ? Let's give Alimadee a safe space to respond factually to the questions put.


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

urbanspaceman said:


> This harsh, profanity-laced, almost bullying response to a new poster is not exactly welcoming. Would you talk to her/him in real life like that ? Let's give Alimadee a safe space to respond factually to the questions put.



Go easy on EastEnder I think he needs to refresh and renew his body, mind, and spirit.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Go easy on EastEnder I think he needs to refresh and renew his body, mind, and spirit.


Let me endorse your stimulation of his healing response there.


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## Sirena (Mar 31, 2017)

I don't mind about science claims.  Most science claims mean nothing anyway and people who spend too much time on them risk missing the beauty of the thing they're describing

But I am a great fan of yoga and I would recommend anyone to do yoga.  And that might include an occasional gong bath because it's working with the same asort of principles and leaves you feeling the same sort of way.

Mind you, I'm just back from morning yoga, so I might be biased.


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## urbanspaceman (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I don't mind about science claims.  Most science claims mean nothing anyway and people who spend too much time on them risk missing the beauty of the thing they're describing
> 
> But I am a great fan of yoga and I would recommend anyone to do yoga.  And that might include an occasional gong bath because it's working with the same asort of principles and leaves you feeling the same sort of way.
> 
> Mind you, I'm just back from morning yoga, so I might be biased.



*"Science classes won’t future-proof ourchildren. But dance might"*
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/30/science-classes-future-children-dance-schools

"_Most science claims mean nothing anyway…_" - typed on a computer and transmitted around the world by the internet. I'm pretty sure that the functioning of these systems relies on the accuracy of untold thousands of scientific claims

"_…risk missing the beauty of the thing they're describing…_" The shop-worn canard that scientists don't see beauty. Dawkins rebuts better than I ever could: www.wikiwand.com/en/Unweaving_the_Rainbow

"_…same asort of principles…_" what are these principles ?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I don't mind about science claims.  Most science claims mean nothing anyway and people who spend too much time on them risk missing the beauty of the thing they're describing


My god, the stupid hurts.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 31, 2017)

As for the OP - as others have stated, selling something as a relaxing way to spend an hour is fine. But the moment you make medical claims for it you'd better have some evidence ready otherwise people will quite rightly tear your nonsense to pieces.


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## Idaho (Mar 31, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> There is a profound difference between saying:
> 
> "Hey, try this cool thing that might make you feel good"
> 
> ...


(whacks eastender over the head with gong) 

There's your luminous force of fakkin nature


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## Idaho (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I don't mind about science claims.  Most science claims mean nothing anyway...


You may not understand science claims. And therefore science and pseudo science may seem the same to you. However it is very important to realise that they are not. When you travel in a car or plane, the operation is down to science and not pseudo science. Likewise any medical treatment you have should be based on science - a process based on testing, checking and reviewing, rather than pseudo science - a marketing tool based on making something sound _sciencey. _


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## pengaleng (Mar 31, 2017)

science? wtf does that mean? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Celyn (Mar 31, 2017)

Magnets - how do they work?


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

Celyn said:


> Magnets - how do they work?



invisible earth energy fields of course


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 31, 2017)

Celyn said:


> Magnets - how do they work?


It's something to do with quantums.


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## Idaho (Mar 31, 2017)

Celyn said:


> Magnets - how do they work?


Magnets are like ultra hetro pieces of metal.


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## Celyn (Mar 31, 2017)

I will let the Insane Clown Posse know.


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## EastEnder (Mar 31, 2017)

urbanspaceman said:


> While it's true that I do have the morning off (soon to end sadly), recent world events - I think you know the ones - have really made me think about how the importance of truth and facts is being questioned.
> 
> This harsh, profanity-laced, almost bullying response to a new poster is not exactly welcoming. Would you talk to her/him in real life like that ? Let's give Alimadee a safe space to respond factually to the questions put.


_If_ you were paying close attention, you'd have noticed that my response to Alimadee's post was perfectly amiable, where I merely, politely asked for clarification on a few points. My more strident response was to Sirena, who'd suggested I was "just bored and quibbling".

Please get your facts straight before accusing someone of bullying.


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## nogojones (Mar 31, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> _‘It is commonly known by indigenous people that high-frequency vibrations activate consciousness, nourish what is hungry or weak, heal what is sick and invite in the most luminous forces of Nature.”
> 
> Arkan Lushwala, tribal elder.
> _



Which tribe is Arkan an elder of?


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

nogojones said:


> Which tribe is Arkan an elder of?



A ceremonial centre in New Mexico inspired by both Peruvian and Lakota traditions apparently.


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## pinkmonkey (Mar 31, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> As for the OP - as others have stated, selling something as a relaxing way to spend an hour is fine. But the moment you make medical claims for it you'd better have some evidence ready otherwise people will quite rightly tear your nonsense to pieces.


Not only that, if you make medical claims without any peer produced evidence, then in this country you're breaking the law. Including on social media. If its on social media, then its still an advert. 

Substantiation for health, beauty and slimming claims


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## nogojones (Mar 31, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> A ceremonial centre in New Mexico inspired by both Peruvian and Lakota traditions apparently.


Is that really a tribe?


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

nogojones said:


> Is that really a tribe?



I suppose you don't need a tribe to be a tribal elder.


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## pengaleng (Mar 31, 2017)

Celyn said:


> Magnets - how do they work?




ahh someone got it


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## nogojones (Mar 31, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I suppose you don't need a tribe to be a tribal elder.


He doesn't look particularly elderly either


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## sunnysidedown (Mar 31, 2017)

I thoroughly recommend doing buckets in the bath whilst listening to Camembert Electrique.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> You could make the same broad medical claims (and give the same warnings) about dancing to psytrance for an hour.



I would love to see someone come on here and try and expound the medical benefits of psytrance.


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## Sirena (Mar 31, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I would love to see someone come on here and try and expound the medical benefits of psytrance.


Dancing innit?  Healthier than sitting at your keyboard.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 31, 2017)

Sirena said:


> Dancing innit?  Healthier than sitting at your keyboard.



Not given the drugs needed to make trance enjoyable.


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## dessiato (Mar 31, 2017)

Do they serve Hobnobs? I'm not going if they don't.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2017)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Not given the drugs needed to make trance enjoyable.


Given the ageing demographic, I assume that's pretty close to being ovaltine and a plate of rich teas.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 31, 2017)

Listening to trance on the wireless


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## Alimadee (Mar 31, 2017)

urbanspaceman said:


> Welcome Alimadee to U75
> 
> You make several claims about Gong Baths in your message. I would find it helpful if you could substantiate any of them with citations or references.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Urbanspaceman, for your questions. 

- Proof of healing 
The sound vibrations produced by gongs work in a similar way on the body to Ultrasound and Infrasound, though the source is mechanical rather than electrically created, and a far greater spectrum of frequencies are produced. Some attendees physically feel the vibrations, and some do not.  Here are some links you might like to read: Direct effects of music in non-auditory cells in culture.  - PubMed - NCBI  and this article Why Sound Heals  the second being from a general well-being publication and which covers a number of topics you have mentioned. 

- proof that stress is moderated is provided by the responses of attendees. Here are some examples: 
"The gong ‘bath’ made me feel like I was being played like a musical instrument. The session was deeply relaxing, and I emerged feeling really peaceful and that all was right with the world. "

"Thank you for a most enlightening experience. I felt a powerful, deep emotional resonance, the effects of which I am still experiencing hours afterwards."

And this, from a corporate participant: " I'll never be the same again!"

- An altered (i.e. meditative) state of consciousness is often - though not always -  the result of listening to 'noise' that does not contain melody or specific rhythm. Many people use so called 'white noise' to aid sleep. The sound produced by gongs is not musical as such, and provides an audioscape that allows the busy, everyday mind to go into a neutral, non-verbal state. Meditation is proven to aid stress reduction, and listening to an external sound source makes achieving a meditative state easier. 

- 'heal what is sick' is extracted from a quote which was included here in it's entirety. From my personal experience of people who attend, many report a sense of well-being, and some have experienced relief of physical symptoms. I have not claimed a cure for anything, it should be noted.

- The delicate mechanisms/settings of a pacemaker can be disrupted by the powerful vibrations produced by large gongs, which can be very loud. It is not recommended for pregnant women, especially those in the first trimester, because fluid conducts sound very efficiently, and there would be a risk that the vibrations around the foetus may cause miscarriage. Certain medical implants - especially if they have been in place for some time - appear, from direct experience of people attending, to pose no problem at all. These include plates and rods screwed to broken bones. In fact, both people with such implants who attended a session reported an improvement in their levels of comfort.

- Because the sound of the gongs can induce a deep meditative, almost trance-like state, there is a risk that people suffering from severe mental issues such as psychosis may be triggered, and for that reason it is not recommended. It actually seems to have an uplifting effect on people with depression or stress.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 31, 2017)




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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Direct effects of music in non-auditory cells in culture.  - PubMed - NCBI



So they looked at cells in a plastic dish - can't really draw any conclusions about human health.

However we have stuff like "...suggesting an increase in cell death... increase in corticosterone serum levels ...long-term reduction of proliferating cells in the hippocampal formation....treatment of cells with Beethoven's 5 th Symphony or Ligeti's Atmospheres decreased cellular viability, whereas Mozart's Sonata did not alter the cellular viability."

None of these are nice things. They basically damaging animal tissue by subjecting it to 100dB noise.


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## EastEnder (Mar 31, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Thanks, Urbanspaceman, for your questions.
> 
> - Proof of healing
> The sound vibrations produced by gongs work in a similar way on the body to Ultrasound and Infrasound, though the source is mechanical rather than electrically created, and a far greater spectrum of frequencies are produced. Some attendees physically feel the vibrations, and some do not.  Here are some links you might like to read: Direct effects of music in non-auditory cells in culture.  - PubMed - NCBI  and this article Why Sound Heals  the second being from a general well-being publication and which covers a number of topics you have mentioned.
> ...


I'm not entirely convinced you fully understand the concept of "proof".


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## Alimadee (Mar 31, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> I'm not entirely convinced you fully understand the concept of "proof".


In order for you to fully understand,why not try it , and then you'd be able to speak from experience.


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## Thora (Mar 31, 2017)

Why aren't gongs safe if you're pregnant?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 31, 2017)

Thora said:


> Why aren't gongs safe if you're pregnant?


They might fall over and land on you.


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2017)

Thora said:


> Why aren't gongs safe if you're pregnant?



If they're not safe when you're pregnant then any woman of child-bearing age should not be admitted to the sessions without being assessed first by the organiser.


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## NoXion (Mar 31, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> In order for you to fully understand,why not try it , and then you'd be able to speak from experience.



There is something to be said for the power of placebo. But one of the properties that scientists use to distinguish those things with actually positive medical effects from anything else that might make a patient feel good, is providing results that are _better_ than a placebo. In other words, if treatment X gives better results in a trial involving multiple subjects than sugar pill Y, then that's an indicator of a medically effective treatment.

I'd probably find a gong bath relaxing. But that still doesn't support the claims made in the original post.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 1, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Thanks, Urbanspaceman, for your questions.
> 
> - Proof of healing
> 
> ...



Anecdote != Proof


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## Alimadee (Apr 1, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Thanks, Urbanspaceman, for your questions.
> 
> - Proof of healing
> The sound vibrations produced by gongs work in a similar way on the body to Ultrasound and Infrasound, though the source is mechanical rather than electrically created, and a far greater spectrum of frequencies are produced. Some attendees physically feel the vibrations, and some do not.  Here are some links you might like to read: Direct effects of music in non-auditory cells in culture.  - PubMed - NCBI  and this article Why Sound Heals  the second being from a general well-being publication and which covers a number of topics you have mentioned.
> ...


The best proof is to try it. Then you will know.


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## Alimadee (Apr 1, 2017)

Actual experience does not equal anecdotal evidence


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## maomao (Apr 1, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Actual experience does not equal anecdotal evidence


That's exactly what anecdotal evidence means. What else could it mean?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 1, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Actual experience does not equal anecdotal evidence


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 1, 2017)

It's a form of sound therapy innit. 

And sound is vibration. The idea being proposed is to use the effect of vibration on cells...in the body.... knowing that we are mostly made of water helps understand the theory and practice. It's something I've had a huge interest in for a long time.

Sound is also something that is being used in medicine. From the very simple use of tuning forks to check fractures.....to the use of sound in the treatment of cancer.
Applications of Sound in Medicine | EEWeb Community

Also, have a look at the effects of sound frequencies on particles. .... ie...cymatics...


It's fascinating to watch.....and shows how different frequencies/ tones impact/ act on matter. This one is just really cool...lol


Masaru Emoto ... looked at the effect of sound on water....and it's effect on the way that water crystals are formed...it's an interesting read. He tried to show that tonal sounds, positive sounds created a different water crystal to atonal...he also used words... What the Bleep Do We Know!? |   Water Crystals
His work has been criticised though as speculative and there were claims that the water had been contaminated...
But it's an interesting theory nonetheless.

Eastern medicine and all aboriginal societies have traditionally used sound as therapy for thousands of years...There is renewed interest in the use of sound to heal.
The medical world is one that is recently (as in the past 60 yrs) looking at sound and how frequencies effect the cells in our body. 
Sound medicine
The articles in the site above are worth a look....particularly the ones on the use of ultrasound and microbubbles in the treatment of prostate cancers.

I think that "sound healing" .in the form of striking and listening to bowls , drums and gongs etc is obviously not a scientifically proven medicine...but I do think that science will prove the effects of sound and different frequencies on the body and mind at some stage.  I'll hold my hand up and say that I've used and still use tibetan singing bowls... they produce pure tones.... these tones are relaxing and  have a calming effect...but it's not the same as listening to music in other ways, because there is a very strong vibrational sense from them. This is a physical sensation that is more than comforting. I can't attest to them being a cure for anything. And I would definitely not claim that they cure disease .... 
apart from dis-ease 

Over the past two years I've used singing bowls with very distressed ASD children. I think that the sounds / vibrations these instruments produce and the vibrational effect when held, is more than relaxing. From my personal perspective, coming from holding and feeling the vibrations from these bowls, the effect feels like a very fast way into a state of mind you usually experience when very relaxed but not sleepy...if that makes sense. In other words a meditative state. I know....it's anecdotal...but I find crystal singing bowls very calming as a form of fast tracking to a very calm state of being.
And the effect lasts.

I respect science and I'm sure that there will be a lot more use of scientific research into sound as medicine. 
This is not to equate gongs, bowls etc with either science or medicine. Its very important that any medical claims be researched and proven. I fully understand that people react to perceived quackery and I think a lot more will have to be proven before anyone believes that a gong or a bowl can cure anything..... 

I would look at what's going on in the world of medicine and the use of sound waves...and also the world of therapeutic medicine where western medicine is beginning to see the positive effects of what would be viewed as alternative. Sound therapy is a recognised therapy....one that is increasingly being used in hospitals, schools and nursing homes. To date it's use is purely for stress relief, control of anxiety, an aid to relieving depression, and an aid to elevation of mood. These alone would have significant impacts on our health longterm. 

Having said all that....all I can say from personal experience and speaking as a musician, there is something very therapeutic about the sounds and vibrations produced by such instruments as tibetan bowls, gongs, crystal singing bowls.

I'll leave you with a singing bowl meditation...

PS...some of the comments on this video are hilarious..


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## maomao (Apr 1, 2017)

I would hope that everyone's okay with people having as many gong baths as they want to. It's just the OP's reference to healing responses and obvious ignorance as to what constitutes a high or low frequency that are a bit of a problem.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 1, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Actual experience does not equal anecdotal evidence


Wow.

Just, wow 

Edit: I do like the alternative, though.  

"I'll tell you a funny story. Just the other day, I was going for a pint of milk at the coop when I accidentally recruited 3,218 people to a double blinded randomised control trial of a complex intervention..."


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## bimble (Apr 1, 2017)

I mind about science claims, not the ones on shampoo adverts but the ones claiming to cure illness or pain. My Mum's a gullible hippie with some health problems who has been taken advantage of for years by folk peddling kinetic crystal rainbow herbs and it makes me angry. 
Gong bath sounds nice probably not great if what ails you is a headache tho.


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## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2017)

Yeah my aunt who has crippling arthritis just spent £80 on copper shoe inserts, which need to replaced every time she buys new shoes because they have different resonances. IMO advertising this sort of shit for sale needs to cracked down on.


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## Saul Goodman (Apr 1, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> Actual experience does not equal anecdotal evidence


Thanks for making me smile so early in the day


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> It's a form of sound therapy innit.
> 
> And sound is vibration. The idea being proposed is to use the effect of vibration on cells...in the body.... knowing that we are mostly made of water helps understand the theory and practice. It's something I've had a huge interest in for a long time.
> 
> ...


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## Alimadee (Apr 1, 2017)

maomao said:


> I would hope that everyone's okay with people having as many gong baths as they want to. It's just the OP's reference to healing responses and obvious ignorance as to what constitutes a high or low frequency that are a bit of a problem.


If you read the responses correctly, you will see that someone else conflated words regarding frequency taken from the quote at the end with the Schumann resonance. They are not related, and I did not claim that they were one and the same


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## Thora (Apr 1, 2017)

Why can't pregnant women do it?


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## Athos (Apr 1, 2017)

Thora said:


> Why can't pregnant women do it?



Probably just say that to give the illusion that it's powerful.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 1, 2017)

Thora said:


> Why can't pregnant women do it?



Vibration. ... my guess.
The vibration from singing bowls is very strong. I'm assuming gongs are similar. 
Pregnant women are advised not to use singing bowls either.  If it's placed on them, as is done...then it could cause problems. These are not little vibes...they are pretty strong and sometimes surprisingly so. Full body vibration,

That's my guess. ...but someone medicallyou minded might explain vibration and pregnancy better.

Pregnancy and vibrations - Wiki


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

Sad to say I was once perfectly sane ,  but was cruelly taken in by the hyped-up promises of the 'new shiny-happy ME' that serial gong-bathing would provide and now in what I think was a direct result of that - have ;

a) lost my hearing (so no longer able to benefit fully from the Gong bathing experience) 

b) much , much worse have lost my already tenuously held sanity as a result of being so easily suckered into new age nonsense and so am forbidden from taking further gong bath sessions (see t&cs of OP) which just might have effected a cure. 

My conclusion .

When your hear the gong - run in the opposite direction as fast as you can (and overtake the Gingerbread man on the way).


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## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Vibration. ... my guess.
> The vibration from singing bowls is very strong. I'm assuming gongs are similar.
> Pregnant women are advised not to use singing bowls either.  If it's placed on them, as is done...then it could cause problems. These are not little vibes...they are pretty strong and sometimes surprisingly so. Full body vibration.
> 
> ...



Why would vibrations be bad for pregnant women but good for everyone else? Surely on the available evidence from, for example, industrial injuries, they are likely to bad for everybody.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Why would vibrations be bad for pregnant women but good for everyone else? Surely on the available evidence from, for example, industrial injuries, they are likely to bad for everybody.



I think the gist would be that vibrations might harm the foetus?

Also...and bear in mind I'm no expert....You limit the time to 20 -30 minutes and the actual contact would be even less. I suspect it's being ultra careful of the foetus.


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## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> I think the gist would be that vibrations might harm the foetus?



But I thought they had healing properties 

What else might they harm? How about a dodgy heart?


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> But I thought they had healing properties
> 
> What else might they harm? How about a dodgy heart?



I'd check with a doctor before doing any alternative therapies if you've a dodgy heart.


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## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> I'd check with a doctor before doing any alternative therapies if you've a dodgy heart.



What if you're not aware of whether you have a dodgy heart or not? Should people get an ECG done before doing any alternative therapies, especially those thought to damage foetuses?


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## urbanspaceman (Apr 1, 2017)

A foetus is a composed of delicate tissues suspended in amniotic fluid. My brain is composed of delicate tissues suspended in cerebrospinal fluid. If gonging could be harmful for foetuses, doesn't the same consideration apply to brains ?


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 1, 2017)

Quite possibly...
and you shouldn't go on roller coasters either or drive off road.


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## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2017)

What things need to be avoided during pregnancy? Alcohol, smoking, drugs, radiation, infectious diseases, toxic chemicals, physical injury and gong baths.

Which of these happens to be good for you in all other situations?


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> What things need to be avoided during pregnancy? Alcohol, smoking, drugs, radiation, infectious diseases, toxic chemicals, physical injury and gong baths.
> 
> Which of these happens to be good for you in all other situations?



Just to clarify....
I was referring to vibration on roller coasters and off road vehicles.....
And yes...advice would be not to roller coaster or go off roading whilst pregnant...reason being...amongst others that strong full body vibration can damage a foetus.


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## maomao (Apr 1, 2017)

Alimadee said:


> If you read the responses correctly, you will see that someone else conflated words regarding frequency taken from the quote at the end with the Schumann resonance. They are not related, and I did not claim that they were one and the same


Well you need to be more careful because at the moment your advertising is confusing and quite possibly in breech of the law.


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## pengaleng (Apr 1, 2017)

can gongs cure MS??


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## Athos (Apr 1, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> can gongs cure MS??


 Yeah, but the medico-indusstrial complex is hiding that, as there's no money in gongs.  Obvs.


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## Athos (Apr 1, 2017)

Sorry, typo: meant to say 'No, of course not'.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 1, 2017)

big gong is lying to you

The gong industry doesn't want gong cures  it wants gong treatment


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 1, 2017)

They're a nice way to relax...  de-stress...etc.... that may help with other health problems. I don't think, or at least it has never been proven without a shadow of a doubt  that sound therapy has actually single handedly cured any disease.
I'm really torn cos part of me loves singing bowls and the stress relief, meditation and calmness I feel when using them..... The rest of me knows that absolute proof of medical.cures is necessary to say that they or any other alternative therapies are sound* ...


(*as in :- believable)...


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## TruXta (Apr 1, 2017)

What about dong baths?


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## isvicthere? (Apr 1, 2017)

Newbie arriving with an immediate post for their Brixton-based business.

This'll go well.


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## isvicthere? (Apr 1, 2017)

sunnysidedown said:


> I thoroughly recommend doing buckets in the bath whilst listening to Camembert Electrique.



I prefer the baths in Hatfield and the North.


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

Last time I saw these guys (Garage,Islington last year) and first time Stonehenge 1982 I can confirm as I was near the front that they would have benefited from  a bath. A traditional one that is - with soap and water please.


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

Frankly my dear I don't give a damn....


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## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2017)

Apparently gongs are imbued with keywords.

From the OP's website (quotation marks my own):
Paiste Planet Gongs are hand made and tuned in Germany to produce certain root frequencies, as calculated by "scientist" Hans Cousto on the basis of the mass, speed of rotation, and orbit of the planetary bodies in the Solar System, including several significant moons and asteroids. The Earth gong represents our connection to our home planet, and the original, creative sound of Aum. Gong pitch: C# (136.1 Hz - 32nd octave) Rules: Earth's Yearly Seasonal Cycle Character: Midlife, grounding, balance Chakra: Heart and Throat Key Words Nature, nurturing, healing, grounding, material gain, creativity, concentration, remembrance, birth, youth, midlife, wisdom, and experience.

I note his special pitches are derived from the rotation of the earth by simply going:

1 day (24 hours . 60 minutes . 60 seconds = 86 400 seconds).	

The frequency of the rotation of Earth around its own axis:
	 1 : 86 400 seconds = 0.000 011 574 Hz (cycle per second)

This frequency multiple doubled into the audible range:
		0.000 011 574 Hz x 224 = 194.18 Hz (224 means 24-fold doubling).

I suppose it doesn't matter that the actual rotation won't correspond to this notional one - perhaps a leap semitone is added as needed or something.

Anyway, based on this special science you can buy from him tuning forks from 36 euros each, or a space flute for 189 euros each (sets available).

You can of course, also buy your own gong, to do your own gong bath sessions. The gongs are £26,198 euros each so you better have some money saved up and a good business plan.

edit: I see cheaper gongs are available. It's a bit like pizzas.


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Apparently gongs are imbued with keywords.
> 
> From the OP's website (quotation marks my own):
> Paiste Planet Gongs are hand made and tuned in Germany to produce certain root frequencies, as calculated by "scientist" Hans Cousto on the basis of the mass, speed of rotation, and orbit of the planetary bodies in the Solar System, including several significant moons and asteroids. The Earth gong represents our connection to our home planet, and the original, creative sound of Aum. Gong pitch: C# (136.1 Hz - 32nd octave) Rules: Earth's Yearly Seasonal Cycle Character: Midlife, grounding, balance Chakra: Heart and Throat Key Words Nature, nurturing, healing, grounding, material gain, creativity, concentration, remembrance, birth, youth, midlife, wisdom, and experience.
> ...



crikey -apart from the ear-watering price it's not all sonic gravy - there is a dark underbelly the vested interests of the global gong industry don't want you to know about. One of the Gong enthusiasts is dimissive of such problems as the wont of quacks the world over .
*
There seems to be an adjustment happening here. i would try to get the client to come back and go through the 'layer'. Lets not fall into conventional medicine thinking here. What happened was a shift and perhaps it didnt quite finish. Some gentle gong working on the heart chakra to complete what went before. Venus and Chiron gentle and soothing.  *


_I attended for the 2nd time the healing hertz gong sound bath in Sydney the 7th June and was dismayed to report of the unfortunate affect it had on me. Let me say i thoroughly enjoyed my 1st gong bath and was looking forward to the 2nd after the previous Sydney performance sold out and i was not able to get a ticket.

During the crescendo of the performance with the waves of sound from the large gongs flowing through me to the point i felt like i was lifted off the ground. It was all encompassing and it caused my heart to go into atrial fibrillation. i was only aware at the time of feeling uncomfortable through the rest of the performance. I realised it had occurred when i walked outside after the performance and felt my pulse which was irregular.

I went home and to sleep immediately hoping my heart rhythm would revert back to normal. However after a restless night i woke with shortness of breath and chest tension / pain. I went to emergency and had a cardio-version done under anaesthetic to get my heart rhythm back in synch and out of A-fib.
_
GongForum.co.uk


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Apparently gongs are imbued with keywords.
> 
> From the OP's website (quotation marks my own):
> Paiste Planet Gongs are hand made and tuned in Germany to produce certain root frequencies, as calculated by "scientist" Hans Cousto on the basis of the mass, speed of rotation, and orbit of the planetary bodies in the Solar System, including several significant moons and asteroids. The Earth gong represents our connection to our home planet, and the original, creative sound of Aum. Gong pitch: C# (136.1 Hz - 32nd octave) Rules: Earth's Yearly Seasonal Cycle Character: Midlife, grounding, balance Chakra: Heart and Throat Key Words Nature, nurturing, healing, grounding, material gain, creativity, concentration, remembrance, birth, youth, midlife, wisdom, and experience.
> ...


Fucks sake


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Why would vibrations be bad for pregnant women but good for everyone else? Surely on the available evidence from, for example, industrial injuries, they are likely to bad for everybody.



you shouldn't expose the developing foetus to bollocks (unless their your partner's and you want them) - maybe ?


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## twentythreedom (Apr 1, 2017)

> or a space flute for 189 euros



￼￼ 

 Shut up and take my fucking money etc


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

Block porn and now this - Brixton is truly fucked...time for The Resistance...


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## phillm (Apr 1, 2017)

Here is the OP - tis quite impressive tbh - shamed she spammed here.


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## pengaleng (Apr 2, 2017)

LOL that hair is SO baaaaaaaad she needs to know about john frieda ASAP


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> Here is the OP - tis quite impressive tbh - shamed she spammed here.




It's not spam. It's the Brixton noticeboard.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2017)

I always imagine the proccess is done by a bare chested, muscled man banging a massive gong like in the J Arthur Rank films. I'd pay for that.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> Here is the OP - tis quite impressive tbh - shamed she spammed here.




The subtitles don't make sense 
But the gongs sound great


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 2, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> LOL that hair is SO baaaaaaaad she needs to know about john frieda ASAP



I think she has nice hair....


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## bi0boy (Apr 2, 2017)

What I want to know is - if this healing works by the sound vibrating your body, surely you can just play a recording of a gong through a decent pair of speakers to have the same effect


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> What I want to know is - if this healing works by the sound vibrating your body, surely you can just play a recording of a gong through a decent pair of speakers to have the same effect



maybe its like how music allegedly sounds purer on vinyl despite all scientific evidence to the contrary


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## xenon (Apr 2, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> What I want to know is - if this healing works by the sound vibrating your body, surely you can just play a recording of a gong through a decent pair of speakers to have the same effect


I guess because there'll be frequencies that such a setup can't reproduce. 

Anyway, outlandish and ill founded scientific claims aside, it actually sounds quite good. I reckon I'd try it.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 2, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I've been to a gong bath and it's a cool and relaxing experience.
> 
> If you want to understand it, you should go along and experience it, 'stead of sitting on your keyboards.



You're a notorious hippy, though. Of course you thought it was a "cool and relaxing experience!


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## phillm (Apr 2, 2017)

If I was Madame Gong I would invite someone on here for a free hour as long as they reported back. Could be great marketing an put an end to spurious knocking commentary.


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## Athos (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> If I was Madame Gong I would invite someone on here for a free hour as long as they reported back. Could be great marketing an put an end to spurious knocking commentary.



Why? It would prove nothing. Nothing so anecdotal could justify her outlandish pseudo-scientific claims of health benefits.


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## felixthecat (Apr 2, 2017)

I reckon it would be nice and relaxing but I'm not sure if I want to pay £?? to have nice and relaxing. I'd prefer steam rooms to relax in.

Medical benefits?  Science does not compute.


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## phillm (Apr 2, 2017)

Athos said:


> Why? It would prove nothing. Nothing so anecdotal could justify her outlandish pseudo-scientific claims of health benefits.



I forgot the robust nature of U75 debate  - particuarly when it concerns new age 'alternative' remedies.


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## felixthecat (Apr 2, 2017)

Btw I'm a lover of meditation/mindfulness. But I don't need gongs to do that.


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## Athos (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> I forgot the robust nature of U75 debate  - particuarly when it concerns new age 'alternative' remedies.



Alternative to 'real'.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> I forgot the robust nature of U75 debate  - particuarly when it concerns new age 'alternative' remedies.


Damn those pesky robust facts.

What do you call alternative medicine that works...?


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## phillm (Apr 2, 2017)

Athos said:


> Alternative to 'real'.



A good as time as any to remember the wonderful John Diamond and his uncomplementary book on 'complementary' medice. 

_At present it is politically incorrect for doctors to criticize alternative medicine practitioners (though the favour is rarely returned), and everywhere they seem to have free rein to set up shop, mislead and extort money from the vulnerable. In Snake Oil John campaigns to redress this imbalance, to take the ‘alternativists’ apart with logic and to point out the idiocy of any philosophy that believes when standardized tests show ginsengsucking not to work, it is the tests and not the treatment that should be thrown away. Sometimes a diagnosis of cancer brings out the best in a person. The everyday tragedy of the condition is that, suddenly in the middle of things, you find that they are gone._

Observer review: Snake Oil and Other Preoccupations by John Diamond


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## Sirena (Apr 2, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Damn those pesky robust facts.
> 
> What do you call alternative medicine that works...?



The basis of most of our pharmaceutical industries.....?


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## phillm (Apr 2, 2017)

Sirena said:


> The basis of most of our pharmaceutical industries.....?



I so miss Jazzz - this thread will die soon rather than span 20 more heated pages. Anyone for colliodal silver gongs ?


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## Sirena (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> I so miss Jazzz - this thread will die soon rather than span 20 more heated pages. Anyone for colliodal silver gongs ?


You spell it colloidal....


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## Sirena (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> Block porn and now this - Brixton is truly fucked...time for The Resistance...



Time to sit down and, instead of trying something new, watch the latest piece of American-produced opium for the masses?


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## phillm (Apr 2, 2017)

Sirena said:


> You spell it colloidal....



since it is all made up - I made up the speling ...


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## phillm (Apr 2, 2017)

Sirena said:


> Time to sit down and, instead of trying something new, watch the latest piece of American-produced opium for the masses?



nowt wrong with opium....


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## Sirena (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> nowt wrong with opium....


I agree.  I have some in my fridge.  It probably hasn't even been peer-reviewed but I intend to use it nevertheless.

I was referring to your choice of escapist, fantasist image.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> since it is all made up - I made up the speling ...



You know they use colloidal silver in hospitals to stop bacterial infection...


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## bi0boy (Apr 2, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> You know they use colloidal silver in hospitals to stop bacterial infection...



That's silver, not colloidal silver. And it doesn't work: Medical uses of silver - Wikipedia


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 2, 2017)

Sirena said:


> The basis of most of our pharmaceutical industries.....?


Or simply "Medicine".


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## Sirena (Apr 2, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Or simply "Medicine".



Medicine has existed as long as creatures.  The pharmaceutical industry is overwhelmingly a late 20th century creation of capitalism.


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## TruXta (Apr 2, 2017)

Late 20th century? Hahaha


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 2, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> That's silver, not colloidal silver. And it doesn't work: Medical uses of silver - Wikipedia



Colloidal generally is understood to mean "solution"....as in particles suspended in a solution. Silver colloidal is a suspension of silver particles evenly distributed...in solution...
Silver (in non toxic amounts) is known to increase the effectiveness of antibiotics...which in an increasingly drug resistant environment is a welcome contribution.
Silver Makes Antibiotics Thousands of Times More Effective

I've seen people with MRSA infections wearing pyjamas with silver threaded through the material...in hospital. Not a gimmick either.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&sour...CCUwBQ&usg=AFQjCNHENHmLr1VYcgVuEEJB41oBx9g0gQ

Acording to the research above..... silver...and colloidal silver are known to damage bacteria at a cellular level...which is good news for those treating antibiotic resistant bacteria.


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## TruXta (Apr 4, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Colloidal generally is understood to mean "solution"....as in particles suspended in a solution. Silver colloidal is a suspension of silver particles evenly distributed...in solution...
> Silver (in non toxic amounts) is known to increase the effectiveness of antibiotics...which in an increasingly drug resistant environment is a welcome contribution.
> Silver Makes Antibiotics Thousands of Times More Effective
> 
> ...


 No, the research shows that for most medical uses silver does nothing.


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## felixthecat (Apr 4, 2017)

TruXta said:


> No, the research shows that for most medical uses silver does nothing.



Not sure about that sweeping statement ...
From http://www.midlandsburnnetwork.nhs.uk/Library/WoundInternationalBestPracticeGuidelinesNonComplex.pdf 

Best practise guidelines indicate the use of silver sulfadiazine for non-complex  burns
"The most commonly used topical antimicrobial in burn wounds is silver sulfadiazine (SSD) cream (Flamazine‰). This is a broadspectrum agent, which is effective against Gram-negative bacteria (e.g. Pseudomonas). It can be applied as a 1cm thick layer and needs to be washed off and redressed daily. However, SSD cream may itself delay healing due to a toxic effect60. Impregnated dressings or pastes, using other forms of silver, most notably elemental silver or in the ionic state (Ag+), have been demonstrated to have a broad antimicrobial effect65–67 and may have some benefit over SSD dressings in terms of time to healing"


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## TruXta (Apr 4, 2017)

I said most, not all.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 4, 2017)

TruXta said:


> No, the research shows that for most medical uses silver does nothing.



Did I say it that it was for "most medical uses"?


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## TruXta (Apr 4, 2017)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Did I say it that it was for "most medical uses"?


No you did not, and I agree that my post was perhaps poorly worded. That said you did seem to big up colloidal silver, which has time after time been proven to have no clinically proven effects. Also silver is not an antibiotic, it is an antiseptic.

https://nccih.nih.gov/health/silver
Colloidal silver: Is it safe or effective? - Mayo Clinic
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=1999_register&docid=fr17au99-6.pdf


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 4, 2017)

TruXta said:


> No you did not, and I agree that my post was perhaps poorly worded. That said you did seem to big up colloidal silver, which has time after time been proven to have no clinically proven effects. Also silver is not an antibiotic, it is an antiseptic.
> 
> Colloidal Silver
> Colloidal silver: Is it safe or effective? - Mayo Clinic
> http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=1999_register&docid=fr17au99-6.pdf



I didn't say it was antibiotic. 
I referenced research that stated it supported the antibiotic process and I distinctly referenced this as the impact silver has at a cellular level.....
There is no equation of silver, colloidal or otherwise as an actual antibiotic. 
Read my post again.


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## TruXta (Apr 4, 2017)

I don't have to, you're still peddling colloidal silver. Which does nothing at best.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 4, 2017)

TruXta said:


> I don't have to, you're still peddling colloidal silver. Which does nothing at best.



Lol


I'm not peddling anything.
I replied to someone else who mentioned colloidal silver..  and I explained that colloidal means "in solution".

But ... as you seem interested...have a look at this...


Silver shines as antibacterial for medical implants


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## NoXion (Apr 5, 2017)

I wouldn't be surprised if silver does in fact have some useful properties when used as directed by medical professionals. Doesn't excuse websites hawking colloidal silver as a cure-all and justifying their behaviour using dodgy pseudoscience.


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## xenon (Apr 5, 2017)

Some plant extracts have scientifically proven medical benefits.

 You know, the ones that are in medicine.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Apr 5, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if silver does in fact have some useful properties when used as directed by medical professionals. Doesn't excuse websites hawking colloidal silver as a cure-all and justifying their behaviour using dodgy pseudoscience.



Absolutely


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## Ergo Proxy (Apr 5, 2017)

Gongs worse than Thatcher!

You'll be telling me the Beach Boys invented the Feudal system next!


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