# White Man March Liverpool



## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

It appears that the neo Nazis of National Action have met fierce opposition from two anti fascist gathers of a few hundred people and have also had a scuffle with the North West Infidels at Lime Street Station.

Currently the White Men are trapped in a pub in Lime Street and are going nowhere as the pub is surrounded by anti Fascists.

Also hearing that Diddyman aka Shane Calvert has been put on his arse.  Not sure whether that was by Antifa or National Action but the day is young and the wheels have fallen off already.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

The White Men have to get out of the pub and get past 3-400 Antifa before they can even think about getting to their march route. It is not happening boys.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Two of National Action's 'top lads' have been put on their arses, those not trapped in the pub are cowering in Lime Street Station


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## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2015)

great news! (edit) updates from from the echo
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/white-man-march-liverpool-live-9862384


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

White men cowering behind police at Lime Street Station. Antifa have taken complete control of the Station


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## treelover (Aug 15, 2015)

Great news, look forward to seeing such numbers on the next Workfare/Suicides from Sanctions protests.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Here is the pub where the second load of white men are trapped


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

treelover said:


> Great news, look forward to seeing such numbers on the next Workfare/Suicides from Sanctions protests.



I post like this would not be the same without some tedious comment from you would it?


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## treelover (Aug 15, 2015)

No, it wouldn't, still valid though


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## chilango (Aug 15, 2015)

treelover said:


> Great news, look forward to seeing such numbers on the next Workfare/Suicides from Sanctions protests.



Why?


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)




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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Police have totally lost control


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## freckleface (Aug 15, 2015)

[post removed because wrong log in]


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## treelover (Aug 15, 2015)

Why what?, it would be great to see such numbers supporting a protest about an issue where people are dying, yes, dying nearly every week.

get this straight, the N/A are contemptible, much worse than the EDL, but if the newly energised youth channel their energy into one area and ignore others, I know who will be the losers. 


btw, why should I have defend a perfectly valid position that says benefit issues are the poor aunty of activism, and have been for most of my political life.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2015)

twitter connection 
https://twitter.com/hashtag/stopwmm?f=tweets&vertical=default&src=hash


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

treelover said:


> Why what?, it would be great to see such numbers supporting a protest about an issue where people are dying, yes, dying nearly every week.
> 
> get this straight, the N/A are contemptible, much worse than the EDL, but if the newly energised youth channel their energy into one area and ignore others, I know who will be the losers.
> 
> ...



Would it be too much to ask to start a thread on that topic and stop spamming this one please? Ta


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## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2015)

yeah come on treelover, take it outside!


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## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

treelover said:


> Why what?, it would be great to see such numbers supporting a protest about an issue where people are dying, yes, dying nearly every week.
> 
> get this straight, the N/A are contemptible, much worse than the EDL, but if the newly energised youth channel their energy into one area and ignore others, I know who will be the losers.
> 
> ...


why don't you syart a thread about it or try to interest people in yhe demo. but this ain't the thread for it.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Sounds like a quantity of water has been slung over the White Men


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)




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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Sounds like a quantity of water has been slung over the White Men


they've taken the piss


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## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> .


404


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

And they have just been pelted by eggs


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> 404



It was a vine of the chaos in Lime Street but this forum didn't like the link


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

try this


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

White Men are still caged in the lost property office and the police have pulled the shutters down at the front of the office to protect them.  These fella will not be marching anywhere today.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Some shutters and some white men feet


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## Buckaroo (Aug 15, 2015)

http://bambuser.com/v/5725843


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## chilango (Aug 15, 2015)

treelover said:


> Why what?, it would be great to see such numbers supporting a protest about an issue where people are dying, yes, dying nearly every week.
> 
> get this straight, the N/A are contemptible, much worse than the EDL, but if the newly energised youth channel their energy into one area and ignore others, I know who will be the losers.
> 
> ...



Spare me the moralism. It's wasted.

I'm just curious as to why you think having an extra couple of hundred "newly energised youth" rocking up to a workfare protest would make enough of a concrete difference to make a post about "looking forward" to it.

Edited to add:

After all, afaics, the strategy/tactics of an antifa style action and a protest against workfare (or similar) are not the same, and have very different conditions for victory.

I remember, as you may also, an attempt to transfer some of the direct action tactics akin to those used here to anti-JSA protests. I'm sure you remember the results.


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## likesfish (Aug 15, 2015)

oh noes the thuggish evil of antfa have stopped the brave patriots from marching.
 its political correctness gone mad 

strangely I'm completely ok with this  pity coppers have to spend time defending the white men


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## treelover (Aug 15, 2015)

I've made my point, will leave the thread.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Po Po appear to have regained control of the Station and White Men are still locked in the lost property cupboard


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## JimW (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Sounds like a quantity of water has been slung over the White Men


It's a whitewash!


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Another live feed from ruptly


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## gawkrodger (Aug 15, 2015)

Just watched some fash get dropped and a copper fall off a bin. Great viewing


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## YouSir (Aug 15, 2015)

gawkrodger said:


> Just watched some fash get dropped and a copper fall off a bin. Great viewing



Is that what it was? Looked for ten seconds and thought someone was juggling police


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## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Po Po appear to have regained control of the Station and White Men are still locked in the lost property cupboard


will anyone want to retrieve the fascists tho?


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## gawkrodger (Aug 15, 2015)

for a second I thought he was stagediving/crowdsurfing ha


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## gawkrodger (Aug 15, 2015)

looks like the old bill have decided to fuck a march off and shoved the fash back into the station


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

They have extracted the pub contingent out of the pub, heavily surrounded. Probs taking them to the lost property room


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

At least the trains are still running, they will like that

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/LIV


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 15, 2015)

Great stuff


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## YouSir (Aug 15, 2015)

Every time this happens I wonder what the fuck the Fash thought would happen? All their big marches go the same way, outnumbered and hiding behind police/running away/having a bad day.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Every time this happens I wonder what the fuck the Fash thought would happen? All their big marches go the same way, outnumbered and hiding behind police/running away/having a bad day.



They got a free reign in Newcastle and got cocky. Liverpool has not really worked out very well for them. Several have taken a battering now


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Fash have been extracted from the lost property cupboard by po po and are now being escorted onto the Metro


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## ddraig (Aug 15, 2015)

treelover said:


> Great news, look forward to seeing such numbers on the next Workfare/Suicides from Sanctions protests.


do you honestly think that such numbers would stop workfare and suicides?? honestly?


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

White man march called off!


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> White men cowering behind police at Lime Street Station. Antifa have taken complete control of the Station
> 
> View attachment 75391



Old Bill protecting their own, as usual.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

One group have been put in the back of police vans to be escorted out of the city


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2015)

chilango said:


> Why?



treelover has a touching belief that if you support one "left of centre" cause, you should support all.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> One group have been put in the back of police vans to be escorted out of the city



Oh dear.
How sad.
Never mind!


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Liverpool Echo have just confirmed the White Men have abandoned their march.  Last week they claimed 'only bullets would stop them'

Can't wait for their whiny blog post tomorrwow


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## chilango (Aug 15, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> treelover has a touching belief that if you support one "left of centre" cause, you should support all.



I don't especially have a problem with that.

It's the substitution of moralism for strategy that I take issue with. The assumption that all struggles have equal, and thus interchangeable, levels of commitment/numbers and conditions for victory.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Some local NF lads have just been unfortunate enough to walk around the wrong corner into a group of Antifa.  Not pretty by all accounts


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## teqniq (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> View attachment 75393 Some shutters and some white men feet


I especially like that it's the:



> .. Lost Property Depot at Liverpool Lime Street Station after coming under a heavy barrage of projectiles. lol!


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Tweeted 7 hours ago


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## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Tweeted 7 hours ago
> 
> View attachment 75395


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 15, 2015)

This thread is lol-tastic


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## Buckaroo (Aug 15, 2015)

Only shutters will stop us!


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## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Only shutters will stop us!


they wanted adolf hitler and got arthur fowler


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## Plumdaff (Aug 15, 2015)

Funniest episode of The Bureau ever


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## likesfish (Aug 15, 2015)

its sad how they go to all that trouble thinking up a black and red logo that's completely different to the original as if they knew the original might not go down to well with spectators


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Just had it confirmed that it is all over, all fash have been removed from the City by police.


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## sheothebudworths (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Tweeted 7 hours ago
> 
> View attachment 75395



PMSL


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## teqniq (Aug 15, 2015)




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## YouSir (Aug 15, 2015)

teqniq said:


>




Feet pride worldwide.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Got covered in milkshake, was heard to say "well this isn't going very well" and then got battered by antifascists as the police tried to get him in the back of a meatwagon for his own safety


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## Citizen66 (Aug 15, 2015)

Who that?


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

>



Awesome photo


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## likesfish (Aug 15, 2015)

what the fuck do they actually expect? 
A general whining about foreigners coming over here and taking benefits etc. doesn't mean the UK's ready to done jack boots and start goose stepping


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## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Every time this happens I wonder what the fuck the Fash thought would happen? All their big marches go the same way, outnumbered and hiding behind police/running away/having a bad day.



im afraid this has not been happening of late and much smaller crowds of antifash have shown up. this is the biggest thing since for some time.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2015)

that is a proper fucken victory. and the feet photo is the iconic image of the day. well done all you down there.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Can a mod please change the title to reflect the fact that they only managed to march to the lost property office. ta


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## ddraig (Aug 15, 2015)

White Man Station Shuffle??


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## purenarcotic (Aug 15, 2015)

Bloody brilliant  well done to all there.


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## tony.c (Aug 15, 2015)

Moseley after being knocked unconscious during a BUF rally in Liverpool.
Good to see the good people of Liverpool upholding their antifascist traditions.
Well done to all who turned out.


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## teqniq (Aug 15, 2015)




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## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2015)

'ava banana!


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## Maharani (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Can a mod please change the title to reflect the fact that they only managed to march to the lost property office. ta


Cos they is lost property.


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## shygirl (Aug 15, 2015)

Brilliant, well done to all (af) who turned up.


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## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2015)

Anyone know about the EDL march in Walsall that caused me to have to put up with Man Utd supporters in the pub last night?


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## likesfish (Aug 15, 2015)

its good to see the nasty collection of thugs getting told in no uncertain terms no and hell no.
 don't think the ultra right are ever going to be a political force in this country fortunately; doesn't mean the collection of violent criminal scum should be tolerated either. When your keen on violence and advocate violence against your enemies you don't really get to play the freedom to march card.


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 15, 2015)

Well done Liverpool! No Pasaran!


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## Voley (Aug 15, 2015)

teqniq said:


>



"Welcome to Liverpool you racist cunt."


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## tony.c (Aug 15, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Anyone know about the EDL march in Walsall that caused me to have to put up with Man Utd supporters in the pub last night?


About 160-200 in Walsall apparently:
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/08/15/nine-arrests-as-edl-protesters-descend-on-walsall/


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> View attachment 75393 Some shutters and some white men feet




Litterbugging pricks. No respect for this country.


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## Voley (Aug 15, 2015)

Many thanks for this thread Fingers. Excellent work, Liverpool. 

Made my day, it has.


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## J Ed (Aug 15, 2015)

chilango said:


> I remember, as you may also, an attempt to transfer some of the direct action tactics akin to those used here to anti-JSA protests. I'm sure you remember the results.



What happened?


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## DRINK? (Aug 15, 2015)

So Liverpool only tolerates racist pricks if they play football for them


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## chilango (Aug 15, 2015)

J Ed said:


> What happened?



These should give you a flavour.


https://libcom.org/history/dole-bondage-yours

https://libcom.org/history/3-strikes-funeral-comments-anti-jsa-struggle

https://libcom.org/history/jsa-dole-workers-strike

http://www.ainfos.ca/98/jan/ainfos00392.html


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## weepiper (Aug 15, 2015)

Top work Liverpudlians.


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## gawkrodger (Aug 15, 2015)

flying copper


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## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2015)

DRINK? said:


> So Liverpool only tolerates racist pricks if they play football for them


 
It may come as a shock but there are some things that transcend the somewhat narrow view of those who believe the world revolves around Old Trafford on Sky.


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## Red Sky (Aug 15, 2015)

Organised and brought to you by the Anti-Fascist Network


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Had a few hows to reflect on this now and today was brilliant. 

Anti fascism has been poor to dire in the North over the last couple of years.  London, Bristol, Brighton, Cardiff, Cambridge have all pulled the stops out.  In Newcastle earlier this year, these twats marched with impunity. The West Midlands has also been poor. 

Manchester has been up there but fash have been virtually unopposed in Manchester's satellite towns.  i am hoping today's victory and humiliation of NA will be a regeneration of anti racism in the north west which will make me very happy. 

Liverpool leading the way


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## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

it's specially good to see things turned round in liverpool after the attack on the sean phelan parade a few years back


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Wayne Baldwin made a long overdue reappearance today. He has swastikas tattooed on him.  This was his finest moment from a few years ago, oh and the EDL's Abdul....


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

gawkrodger said:


> flying copper




flying coppers were trained to counteract flying pickets in the 80's mate. Thatcher thing.  Glad the flying squad are still up to the job


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## eatmorecheese (Aug 15, 2015)

A good day. Forza Liverpool, No Pasaran!


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## Red Sky (Aug 15, 2015)

Wayne Baldwin had a really bad time today. A couple of kickings and he got wedgied with his own braces.


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 15, 2015)

I keep chucking about this, it is just brilliant how the hype didn't live up to the reality.

Some meme stuff:


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Wayne Baldwin had a really bad time today. A couple of kickings and he got wedgied with his own braces.



From what I heard he took a right battering. the question is, where has he been on the scene in the last three or four years as I have not clocked him on far right demos since the Abdul video


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 15, 2015)




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## Pingu (Aug 15, 2015)




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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

meme time. You have to given these boy credit for organising one of the worst far right demos in history


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

Can I just make a point that please do not put vids up of antifa battering fash.  pls po po and stuff


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## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2015)

Fingers said:


> meme time. You have to given these boy credit for organising one of the worst far right demos in history


 
Apparently they're already trying to book a brewery for their Christmas party


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 15, 2015)

2/10 - just a terrible terrible effort


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## tony.c (Aug 15, 2015)

Thanks for the coverage and updates Fingers. Now I wish I had been there.


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## Fingers (Aug 15, 2015)

tony.c said:


> Thanks for the coverage and updates Fingers. Now I wish I had been there.



You are welcome, of recent in the NW, it as been a bit depressing the none opposition and stuff.   Liverpool rocked it!


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## Citizen66 (Aug 16, 2015)

It's amusing watching St*rmfront squabbling over it. My favourite comment:



> The left will have a field day with this



Really?

https://www.stormfront.  
org/forum/t1103340-10/


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## DotCommunist (Aug 16, 2015)

gawkrodger said:


> flying copper



I've been laughing at this for about an hour now. What the fuck were they thinking coming down in strength to liverpool of all places?


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## Sprocket. (Aug 16, 2015)

Thanks for this, best thread of the weekend.


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I've been laughing at this for about an hour now. What the fuck were they thinking coming down in strength to liverpool of all places?



A lot of organisation went into the opposition - if it hadn't they would have been free to march. They've managed it in Newcastle and Manchester recently.


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## The39thStep (Aug 16, 2015)

Joe Reilly's advice a few weeks ago about picking on the weakest element of the far right and humiliating them was spot on.


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## tony.c (Aug 16, 2015)

Another youtube vid of the Nazi tweenies hiding in the left luggage store:


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## Inigo Montoya (Aug 16, 2015)

"While defeat today in Liverpool not as politically significant as Main Event in '89 or Waterloo in '92 it was more comprehensive" 

- Nick Lowes (Hope Not Hate)


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## Buckaroo (Aug 16, 2015)




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## Inigo Montoya (Aug 16, 2015)

Scrapping in the station. You can't make out comrade's face's so think it's ok to share:

https://www.facebook.com/kelseysbird/videos/vb.648036788/10153602824361789/?type=2&theater


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## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2015)

tony.c said:


> Thanks for the coverage and updates Fingers. Now I wish I had been there.


 yeah thanks fingers. great reporting on the spot. always well appreciated.


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## tony.c (Aug 16, 2015)

Today's Mirror with some pics of fleeing Polish bonehead being encouraged on his way with a boot up the rear.
Unfortunately you can see the antifascist's face, but it is already in the public domain and on shitfront.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liverpool-white-man-march-six-6259001


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## chilango (Aug 16, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Joe Reilly's advice a few weeks ago about picking on the weakest element of the far right and humiliating them was spot on.



Exactly. I'd extend that beyond anti-fascism too.


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

Nick Knowles?, Joe Reilly? Truly it is said that while failure is an orphan, success has many fathers.


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## Fingers (Aug 16, 2015)

http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/08/16/where-were-the-white-men-at/


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

A reasonable summary - but EDL News , as ever, give the impression that they were on the scene when they were not. In fact National Action and their hangers on were stuck in front of the left luggage area for a good half an hour surrounded by cops. The police took a long time to come up with a plan to get them out of there. It was the cops who pulled the shutters down while waiting for re-inforcements that allowed them to form a corridor to bundle the fash back into the Wetherspoons.


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## Fingers (Aug 16, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> A reasonable summary - but EDL News , as ever, give the impression that they were on the scene when they were not. In fact National Action and their hangers on were stuck in front of the left luggage area for a good half an hour surrounded by cops. The police took a long time to come up with a plan to get them out of there. It was the cops who pulled the shutters down while waiting for re-inforcements that allowed them to form a corridor to bundle the fash back into the Wetherspoons.



There were two of EDL News on the scene that I know of.


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

Fingers said:


> http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/08/16/where-were-the-white-men-at/





Fingers said:


> There were two of EDL News on the scene that I know of.



I stand corrected in that case - but why finesse the story in that way? A lot of EDL news stuff seems like that, presumably they're happy to bend the truth in order to demoralise the opposition. There's not a particularly clear line drawn between them and Still Laughing at the EDL.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 16, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Nick Knowles?, Joe Reilly? Truly it is said that while failure is an orphan, success has many fathers.


a fan of  abercrombie?


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> a fan of  abercrombie?



As in Joe?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 16, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> As in Joe?


i know of no other abercrombie author


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i know of no other abercrombie author



I was wondering if you were referring to the manufacturer of knitwear. Say this for the Bloody-Nine, he was sometimes anti-social but he was always anti-fascist.


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## october_lost (Aug 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> What the fuck were they thinking coming down in strength to liverpool of all places?


Local antifascist infrastructure in Liverpool had apparently fallen apart after NWI had threatened various people involved. They must have felt over-confident based on that fact.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2015)

EDL news were there.


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL news were there.



Ok - so do you think it's a valid tactic to twist and embellish the story? I can see advantages, public perception of who is winning can make a difference to turn out (on both sides) and effective opposition. However when every event is reported as a glorious and effortless victory for anti-fascists over a caricatured and buffoonish oppposition that actually negatively affects anti-fascists ability to mobilise. Someone on here was saying earlier that they wondered why the fash even bother as they always get run out of town by massive numbers. This is emphatically not the case. 

I would say that your blog often strays over this line.


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## weepiper (Aug 16, 2015)

I like this picture

 

(from here)


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Every time this happens I wonder what the fuck the Fash thought would happen? All their big marches go the same way, outnumbered and hiding behind police/running away/having a bad day.



This is the quote I was referring to - EDL News etc have a lot to answer for in terms how this has become a widespread perception. Unfortunatley it breeds apathy on the anti-fascist side.


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## The39thStep (Aug 16, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Nick Knowles?, Joe Reilly? Truly it is said that while failure is an orphan, success has many fathers.



Two names not normally in the same sentence . Truly can you explain what point you are trying to make?


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

Just find it amusing how many people want to claim credit for yesterday. I probably should have put Weyman in there for good measure.


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## likesfish (Aug 16, 2015)

that's how I like my Nazis humiliated and complaining about being bullied

there not really a threat unless your brown or queer when the pubs kick out. Coming across in public as a bunch of idiots who couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery rather limits their ability to recruit everyone loves and underdog and the betrayed defeat is a powerful narrative  but you'd need to hire Shakespeare and micheal bays spx budget to make cowering in a lost property office look good


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## juice_terry (Aug 16, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Just find it amusing how many people want to claim credit for yesterday. I probably should have put Weyman in there for good measure.


Where the hell has Joe Reilly claimed credit? Nick Lowles was right about one thing though it certainly wasn't a Waterloo type success .


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## likesfish (Aug 16, 2015)

coming soon to a multiplex near you *35*ish a brave group of aryan warriors take on the barbarian hordes of liverpool only protected by several hundred riot police and a lost property shutter


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## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Where the hell has Joe Reilly claimed credit? Nick Lowles was right about one thing though it certainly wasn't a Waterloo type success .



i have quoted this several times in various places and i seem to remember joe writing it on ere. or i first heard it here.


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## juice_terry (Aug 16, 2015)

Mal.. was asking RedSky .. who claimed that Joe Reilly was claiming credit


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## Red Sky (Aug 16, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Joe Reilly's advice a few weeks ago about picking on the weakest element of the far right and humiliating them was spot on.



It was in reply to this. I'm not saying Joe Reilly is claiming credit.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2015)

someone ask joe then we can get back to gloating over liverpool!


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## Citizen66 (Aug 16, 2015)

Meanwhile over on shitcunt*, some of the tweenies are starting to crawl back out of the woodwork. Them thinking that they will 'become stronger' because of this, rather than be a laughing stock for decades to come, is testament to their level of self delusion. 

*I normally can't stomach the place but this is too funny. It's the Halley's Comet of comedy becomes farce.


----------



## Gingerman (Aug 16, 2015)

DELETE......


----------



## stereotypical (Aug 16, 2015)

It puzzles me why they picked one of the most left wing cities in the country to have a march in.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2015)

AFN report with pics etc ...
http://antifascistnetwork.org/2015/...-left-luggage-for-their-own-safety/#more-3323


----------



## albionism (Aug 17, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Wayne Baldwin made a long overdue reappearance today. He has swastikas tattooed on him.  This was his finest moment from a few years ago, oh and the EDL's Abdul....



Is this him again, after just having had a kick in the bollocks?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 17, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Just find it amusing how many people want to claim credit for yesterday. I probably should have put Weyman in there for good measure.



How can an analysis of what would be effective tactics posted on here weeks ago now be an attempt to claim credit?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

albionism said:


> Is this him again, after just having had a kick in the bollocks?
> 
> View attachment 75464


puzzling over what comes after 'one'


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

stereotypical said:


> It puzzles me why they picked one of the most left wing cities in the country to have a march in.


in that case you've not been paying attention to what they (the far right) have done to some left wing marches in liverpool in the last few years. there have been threads about it here.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> How can an analysis of what would be effective tactics posted on here weeks ago now be an attempt to claim credit?



I had no intention of starting a big row. To be honest I'm not sure who Joe Reilly is - it might be interesting to read the original piece of analysis if you can find it. 

What I was getting at I suppose was the general air of "Well, obviously, what were the fash thinking?" that is now pervading the discussion. It was a stunning victory and we have every reason to believe that there were over a hundred fash in Liverpool on Saturday but that with the AFN crowd having seized the iniative early on they were unable to form up or use either their primary or secondary RV points. 

However these things are always balanced on a bit of a knife edge - 'best laid plans' and all that. If there had been torrential rain first thing in the morning or a heavier and more aggressive police response initially ( The AFN crowd marched directly to Lime St station with just a couple of cops) then the whole thing might have run quite differently.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Nick Lowles was right about one thing though it certainly wasn't a Waterloo type success .



I'm sure there were those after Waterloo saying it wasn't as good as Lewisham. Probably a few at Lewisham saying "You should have been at Cable St". We are but lesser men in lesser times - but we do our best. [appropriate emoticon]


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 17, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> To be honest I'm not sure who Joe Reilly is



Former RA/AFA. Not for me to give his actual name, although I don't think its a big secret.


----------



## likesfish (Aug 17, 2015)

tony.c said:


> Today's Mirror with some pics of fleeing Polish bonehead being encouraged on his way with a boot up the rear.
> Unfortunately you can see the antifascist's face, but it is already in the public domain and on shitfront.
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/liverpool-white-man-march-six-6259001




so we are reduced to importing  fascists?  guess they are cheaper and harder working and faster on their feet
nearly worth starting a thread on whats it called	to lament the threat imported boneheads pose to are own home grown cretins


----------



## Inigo Montoya (Aug 17, 2015)

Vice News report:

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/engl...cebook&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social

[Fair play to them for disguising anti-Fascists faces]


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 17, 2015)

What are 'Sea Nazis' though?  Do they have U-boats?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> What are 'Sea Nazis' though?  Do they have U-boats?


more u-bends than u-boats i suspect


----------



## YouSir (Aug 17, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> What are 'Sea Nazis' though?  Do they have U-boats?



They hide in _*Sub*_way instead of lost property?

I tried...


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 17, 2015)

maybe its like sea monkeys where you can get a dried packet of them and grow your own nazis in the bath untill your mum bollocks you and makes you pull the plug out so people can wash


----------



## JimW (Aug 17, 2015)

Not heiling but drowning


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 17, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> What are 'Sea Nazis' though?  Do they have U-boats?


----------



## stereotypical (Aug 17, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> in that case you've not been paying attention to what they (the far right) have done to some left wing marches in liverpool in the last few years. there have been threads about it here.



Yeah I know they've given a few problems and have been screaming bloody murder for ages but generally they should be aware they cannot go as far as to hold a full blown march.

Born and bred scouse boy here, over the years the level of fascist activity is pretty much non existent to be honest.  Theres about 10 (all from Wirral) who give it attitude then leg it back the tunnel and the former Quiggins nutter whos just an oddball with no mates.

Couple of Irish marches been attacked mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

stereotypical said:


> Yeah I know they've given a few problems and the NWI have been screaming bloody murder for ages but generally they should be aware they cannot go as far as to hold a full blown march.
> 
> Born and bred scouse boy here, over the years the level of fascist activity is pretty much non existent to be honest.  Theres about 10 (all from Wirral) who give it attitude then leg it back the tunnel and the former Quiggins nutter whos just an oddball with no mates.  The brief boost they all got from the whole EDL thing has largely died down now.
> 
> Couple of Irish marches been attacked mind.


yes, i referred to the attack on the sean phelan parade above.


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 17, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> What are 'Sea Nazis' though?  Do they have U-boats?



Das Jack Boot


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

hot air baboon said:


> Das Jack Boot


nazi 1 to nazi 2: ever get that sinking feeling?


----------



## stereotypical (Aug 17, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, i referred to the attack on the sean phelan parade above.



Yeah I suspected as much.  Thats probably the worst thing Ive ever heard about happening here insofar as far right 'winning'.  Cant see that ever happening again now.

Its a massive misjudgement by the far right to mistake a degree of complacency (due to the city being overwhelmingly leftist, full of trade union activists and Irish republican boys) with room for them to operate.

I didnt go on Saturday but like  everyone here we're rather chuffed that they didnt even make it out Lime St. Especially as they'd been mouthing off all week with threats.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

stereotypical said:


> Yeah I suspected as much.  Thats probably the worst thing Ive ever heard about happening here insofar as far right 'winning'.  Cant see that ever happening again now.
> 
> Its a massive misjudgement by the far right to mistake a degree of complacency (due to the city being overwhelmingly leftist, full of trade union activists and Irish republican boys) with room for them to operate.
> 
> I didnt go on Saturday but like  everyone here we're rather chuffed that they didnt even make it out Lime St. Especially as they'd been mouthing off all week with threats.


yeh it's grand to see all their work in ashes


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 17, 2015)

They're going to attempt to march again in two weeks time apparently. I guess plod must have made assurances to better protect them or something. Not sure what their strategy is with this. Grind Antifascists down with relentless call outs?


----------



## jimmer (Aug 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> They're going to attempt to march again in two weeks time apparently.


They're not, it's bullshit. Garron Helm has said he's just trolling everybody by putting that out. 

Next time this lot will be out on the streets again is Manchester on Saturday for the NF's 'white and proud' rally.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

jimmer said:


> They're not, it's bullshit. Garron Helm has said he's just trolling everybody by putting that out.
> 
> Next time this lot will be out on the streets again is Manchester on Saturday for the NF's 'white and proud' rally.


not in the left luggage?


----------



## miktheword (Aug 17, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> What are 'Sea Nazis' though?  Do they have U-boats?








easy to spot them, pointing at sky and shouting 'sea gull..sea gull!'


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

miktheword said:


> easy to spot them, pointing at sky and shouting 'sea gull..sea gull!'


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Former RA/AFA. Not for me to give his actual name, although I don't think its a big secret.


His real name is Inigo Montoya


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 17, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> His real name is Inigo Montoya



And he's a champion lurker.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> His real name is Inigo Montoya


that's but his pen name and his real name is pixie spinks


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 17, 2015)

jimmer said:


> They're not, it's bullshit. Garron Helm has said he's just trolling everybody by putting that out.
> 
> Next time this lot will be out on the streets again is Manchester on Saturday for the NF's 'white and proud' rally.


Any update on Clapton Ultras?


----------



## YouSir (Aug 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Any update on Clapton Ultras?



16 Newham 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 *0*
17 Enfield 1893 1 0 0 1 2 3 −1 *0
18 Clapton 1 0 0 1 1 2 −1 0*
19 Stansted 1 0 0 1 1 2 −1 *0*
20 Greenhouse Sports 1 0 0 1 0 2 −2 *0*
21 Tower Hamlets 1 0 0 1 0 2 −2 *0
*


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 17, 2015)

Missed opportunity .. Could have obliterated the cunts .. Fair play to all involved in Saturday but it's a shame that "victories " are reduced to flag pinching .. The scenario in the video was a good opportunity to leather the Fash bastards .. A few of the kicks left a lot to be desired [emoji2]


----------



## teqniq (Aug 17, 2015)

Just popped up on my FB feed


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Missed opportunity .. Could have obliterated the cunts .. Fair play to all involved in Saturday but it's a shame that "victories " are reduced to flag pinching .. The scenario in the video was a good opportunity to leather the Fash bastards .. A few of the kicks left a lot to be desired [emoji2]



A little churlish this perhaps.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2015)

Not sure the quality of fighting in this is much better


----------



## jimmer (Aug 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Any update on Clapton Ultras?


Didn't see many of them in Liverpool.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Not sure the quality of fighting in this is much better



best fighting at waterloo not captured on camera


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Missed opportunity .. Could have obliterated the cunts .. Fair play to all involved in Saturday but it's a shame that "victories " are reduced to flag pinching .. The scenario in the video was a good opportunity to leather the Fash bastards .. A few of the kicks left a lot to be desired [emoji2]



yes. personally i'd have liked to  see what happens at the end of 'it happened here' happen to na and their mates. sadly not really on the cards.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 17, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> A little churlish this perhaps.


Nothing churlish at all .. It's a valid criticism.. The opportunity was there to inflict some SERIOUS damage to these wankers .. And the opportunity was missed .. There was a scant police presence and enough time to annihilate the Fash present in that clip .. That would take a lot more to come back from than having their flag stolen and burnt.


----------



## october_lost (Aug 17, 2015)

jimmer said:


> Didn't see many of them in Liverpool.


Home game


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 17, 2015)

The fucker should not have got up from that if done properly


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 17, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> The fucker should not have got up from that if done properly


you can bet if the jackboot was on the other foot they'd have kicked people into hospital, thrashed them within an inch of their lives then several yards beyond. I get all merciful seeing their little faces sometimes but then I remember what they are and what mercy they'd show me. Fuck em.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Nothing churlish at all .. It's a valid criticism.. The opportunity was there to inflict some SERIOUS damage to these wankers .. And the opportunity was missed .. There was a scant police presence and enough time to annihilate the Fash present in that clip .. That would take a lot more to come back from than having their flag stolen and burnt.


it's not like the auld days when there were no cameras about, and no one wants another large court case.


----------



## Yossarian (Aug 17, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Nothing churlish at all .. It's a valid criticism.. The opportunity was there to inflict some SERIOUS damage to these wankers .. And the opportunity was missed .. There was a scant police presence and enough time to annihilate the Fash present in that clip .. That would take a lot more to come back from than having their flag stolen and burnt.



Looks like there was cameras all around and lots of police - it was the middle of Lime Street station, FFS - hands up who wants to go to prison for 20 years for inflicting "SERIOUS damage" on a defeated Nazi.

Liverpool did very well that day, there's a time to take your victory and go with it instead of kicking your enemy in the head and going to jail for it - or running up to deliver stupid little half-kicks to the back of your enemy once he is on the ground.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Nothing churlish at all .. It's a valid criticism.. The opportunity was there to inflict some SERIOUS damage to these wankers .. And the opportunity was missed .. There was a scant police presence and enough time to annihilate the Fash present in that clip .. That would take a lot more to come back from than having their flag stolen and burnt.



You weren't there (I'm guessing). There were a lot of cops about - they just hadn't got their act together at that point. CCTV has probably moved on a bit since your day - it's like watching HDTV now and people are aware of it, hence a reluctance to 'pull the trigger'.

I don't normally watch riot porn but following these links I found the Waterloo one I put up earlier and a couple of Lewisham. All the aggro looks about the same - a lot of windmilling, arm punches, soccer kicks and four blokes grabbing one and not doing a lot of damage 'cos they're all in each others way etc etc.

Be a gentleman and congratulate today's new crop of anti-fascists in public even if in private you know they'll never be a patch on your old crew.

Personally I'm looking forward to slagging off the useless student twats of the Anti Fascist Initiative after they rout the Indigenous European Alliance in the Battle of Basingstoke in 2035. Handbags mate, pure fucking handbags.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 17, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Not sure the quality of fighting in this is much better



When the narrator said outside the station more ugly clashes took place I thought he was going to say more ugly cunts gathered


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 17, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> You weren't there (I'm guessing). There were a lot of cops about - they just hadn't got their act together at that point. CCTV has probably moved on a bit since your day - it's like watching HDTV now and people are aware of it, hence a reluctance to 'pull the trigger'.
> 
> I don't normally watch riot porn but following these links I found the Waterloo one I put up earlier and a couple of Lewisham. All the aggro looks about the same - a lot of windmilling, arm punches, soccer kicks four blokes grabbing one and not doing a lot of damage 'cos they're all in each others way etc etc.
> 
> ...


I have congratulated them .. It was a job well done


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 17, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> ugly clashes


it's a tabloid staple, but can anyone recall clashes that were not ugly? To my mind from non political ruckus by the time its come to clashing there is no pretty.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> it's a tabloid staple, but can anyone recall clashes that were not ugly? To my mind from non political ruckus by the time its come to clashing there is no pretty.



Only in _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 17, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Only in _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_


sooner or later someone will find the fabled sword named 'Fuck You' which was forged from the red hot heat of antifascism and quenched in the oil of Pastor Niemoller's tears.

seriously though, I jest but I don't mock. I haven't the fighting skill or good health to face down angry fascists and they do need it lest they grow bold. I'd end up decorating the pavement with blood from my broke nose. So good show to all involved.


----------



## miktheword (Aug 17, 2015)

It was Nick Knowles who started all this 'more comprehensive than waterlo' stuff.
First of all, where was Nick Knowles at Waterloo? what gives him the authority to conclude on the comprehensiveness of what happened.

To give a flavour of what Waterloo was like, you also had to look at the odds, the numbers, and that it lasted all day plus the organisation that went into it, even early on the day, how tactics altered due to good intelligence and leadership.


Bones were spotted early in main concourse bar, even though we'd got there hours before they were meant to arrive. We formed a cordon to stop OB from getting through whilst those bones in the bar were dealt with..and very comprehensively Nick. (as an aside Redsky, rather than getting in each others way, I saw people make room for themselves by pushing others back )

Before their next arrivals could form up, blokes were attacked five seconds after kissing their loved ones goodbye after exiting the train.

train stations were closed down - they couldn't even be escorted out. by train..a decision was taken to allow them to be scattered outside through the many exits, to be dealt with.

The police and fash stood together, with the former saying to the latter, 'if you run, we're running too'..which they both did.

a mainstream journalist (forget the magazine) was with them and mentioned how him and an adjacent bone both put their arms over their heads in a reflex action, before laughing as it was a pigeon overhead..such was the continual volley of rocks they faced.

Even the main brief footage shown (selected) by the BBC showing the fash running into four of ours, who stood their ground, not going down, was initiated by the fash (that group amongst others) getting legged..watch the footage..they're looking behind them as they move forward.

So, Knowles, you know fuck all.

Redsky and all that were there, congrats...emailed this to my veteran scouse mate immediately when I heard of it saturday.

If you think they're a growing threat, then as you say, important that people are in it for the long haul and have more stamina than them, as to lose physically and be seen to on the streets,  is worse than not to join the arena at the moment imo.


No-one's knocking those involved..far from it.  Just as with recent not so good days in Liverpool, most never sought to attack missing anti fascists either.

But as antifascists, we don't look for applause, for credit ....fuck sake, in our day, it was a surprise to just not get verbally attacked ,and in print as well, by the so called left, for provoking the cunts...'you're worse than the fascists'...was not uncommon.  

And furthermore Redsky, your fathers, orphans quote..not that JR claimed any credit of course, but there was a stampede amongst the main newly forming anti fash groups to claim credit for our work, back then.

congrats for saturday.. and your post before  about how some journals can make them  (the fash) seem a joke, painting a picture of how easy it'll all be, was poignant. As was your comment that a bit of luck may have gone our way regarding weather, OB not being organised early etc.

We always said, we want others to come after us, to learn from our successes and setbacks, dealing with intelligence and how it improves, adapts. I was pleased to hear a few years back that some new anti fash, NW based were hoping to get AFA/ RA veterans to speak, educate so future victories have more chance, with less damage to us.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)

I don't think he juxtaposed it against Waterloo in that way. There was more context to his point, which appears to be getting lost here.


----------



## xenon (Aug 18, 2015)

I've watched some of the YouTube vids and I don't attend rallies marches, for practical reasons etc etc  Fair play to those people who turned up and chased the scum out of Liverpool. But what is being said now, it's not a proper protest unless someone gets murdered? That just seems crazy, I'm know pacifist but come on. self defence is one thing, but kicking a prone assailant who is down and you are on CCTV police presents they are no immediate threat.


----------



## miktheword (Aug 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't think he juxtaposed it against Waterloo in that way. There was more context to his point, which appears to be getting lost here.








'he' being Knowles or Red Sky?

my point was that it was  a twatter post by Knowles comparing the two,  (and another from someone above stating that JR had stated it was a good tactic to humiliate the weakest of them) that seemed to provoke Redsky into mistakenly claiming JR was claiming credit..leading to many subsequent posts comparing the two events

. I also sought to fill Redsky in on with a flavour of what Waterloo was like in it's intensity, organisation, longevity and how media misrepresented it, given his/her comments on what they'd seen about it on media...whilst congratulating him/ her and others on their efforts, plus his/ her warning that its not as easy as many think. Plus its a victory for us all, and we can and should learn from those who went before. It certainly weren't meant as an Uncle Albert 'during the war' comment.

I explained my context..wasn't slagging Redsky, but Knowles...twitter doesn't really do context, which is probably why Knowles limited his comment to it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)

39th Step mentioned JR had suggested attacking a soft target as a strategy - red sky mistook that comment as a claim for victory.

I'm sure the original knowles comment acknowledged Waterloo and the comment about Liverpool was worded in a way that didn't trample on that. But that appears to be back in the mists of time now. Maybe he intended to ruffle feathers, but it didn't come across that way when I first read it.


----------



## miktheword (Aug 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> 39th Step mentioned JR had suggested attacking a soft target as a strategy - red sky mistook that comment as a claim for victory.
> 
> I'm sure the original knowles comment acknowledged Waterloo and the comment about Liverpool was worded in a way that didn't trample on that. But that appears to be back in the mists of time now. Maybe he intended to ruffle feathers, but it didn't come across that way when I first read it.





can't be bothered to trawl back through posts..from memory, knowles twitter read something like 'whilst not as politically significant as the main event or waterloo, this was more comprehensive'  (lacks not only context but any detail, I would guess he'd know that others would then seek to compare)... I doubt his credentials to judge, so why does he even bring it up? why not just say, well done, like others?..

anyway, I'll leave that there, you may be right about his intentions..I would expect a professional, desk bound anti fascist to at least expand on 140 characters, if their intentions were good and didn't want to provoke differences as it no doubt would..and did

Most poignant I think are redsky's comments on 1) it ain't as easy as often portrayed 2) luck can play a part in any day's events


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)

I agree that there was no need to mention Waterloo and he should have just said well done.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> it's a tabloid staple, but can anyone recall clashes that were not ugly? To my mind from non political ruckus by the time its come to clashing there is no pretty.


an aesthetics of violence... i don't think clashes are ugly, in the main, i think that the denigration of violence as a tactic is ugly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2015)

xenon said:


> I've watched some of the YouTube vids and I don't attend rallies marches, for practical reasons etc etc  Fair play to those people who turned up and chased the scum out of Liverpool. But what is being said now, it's not a proper protest unless someone gets murdered? That just seems crazy, I'm know pacifist but come on. self defence is one thing, but kicking a prone assailant who is down and you are on CCTV police presents they are no immediate threat.


it's not a proper protest unless the npas attend. and there is no better time to kick an opponent than when he's down.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 18, 2015)

juice_terry said:


> Nothing churlish at all .. It's a valid criticism.. The opportunity was there to inflict some SERIOUS damage to these wankers .. And the opportunity was missed .. There was a scant police presence and enough time to annihilate the Fash present in that clip .. That would take a lot more to come back from than having their flag stolen and burnt.



Could've landed some good folk in prison for a long while though. Next time if you wanna turn up and crack some heads yourself I'm sure nobody will object.

A couple of fash did get the hurt put on them by all accounts, enough to be a warning to the others I would say. I would be surprised if this lot try anything like this again, and that's what people say when they mean 'victory' IMO.


----------



## Inigo Montoya (Aug 18, 2015)

34mins video of the day:


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 18, 2015)

The Waterloo comparison is a bit random. I was actually surprised at Nick Knowles congratulating autonomous anti-fascists at all -rather than congratulating the cops for handling the situation well or something. The band wagon jumping is irritating - but the fact that Liverpool's mayor has weighed in in favour of the action taken does mean that there isn't really any political pressure on the police to start a man-hunt.

The important part of the day for me was that the Anti Fascist Network showed that it was capable of getting a good sized group of experienced activists together to provide a core around which a lot of ordinary Liverpudlians felt able to take direct action against fascists.

In any case in terms of blasts from the past and maybe ruffled feathers - read the banner....


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> The Waterloo comparison is a bit random. I was actually surprised at Nick Knowles congratulating autonomous anti-fascists at all -rather than congratulating the cops for handling the situation well or something. The band wagon jumping is irritating - but the fact that Liverpool's mayor has weighed in in favour of the action taken does mean that there isn't really any political pressure on the police to start a man-hunt.
> 
> The important part of the day for me was that the Anti Fascist Network showed that it was capable of getting a good sized group of experienced activists together to provide a core around which a lot of ordinary Liverpudlians felt able to take direct action against fascists.
> 
> In any case in terms of blasts from the past and maybe ruffled feathers - read the banner....View attachment 75516


proper auld school


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 18, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> The Waterloo comparison is a bit random.



Of course it's not that random once I'd given it five minutes thought. The 'fash' in Liverpool were exactly that - a belted, booted and braced C18 tribute act. So visually at least the two events have a lot in common. 

In my view the actual threat comes from those far-right groups committed to a street presence who don't fall into that cliched mold. At the moment nobody has successfully imitated the EDL, which was the main protagonist for anti-fascists from 2009 to 2015. That's not to say that somebody won't - certainly plenty are trying. The significance of National Action and the White Pride crowd is that they have walked through a door opened for them by the EDL. With the collapse of that organisation (I say collapse but the EDL have heard the last rites a few times) anti-fascists have a breathing space to regroup and re-organise. I suspect that the next wave of this will be along shortly.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 18, 2015)

If we're making comparisons, this was a more comprehensive victory than Waterloo, although it was much less of a battle. Someone pointed out the far-right claim Waterloo wasn't a defeat as the gig still took place, they can't make any such claims with what happened at Lime Street. They claimed they would march through Liverpool and any left-wing opponents who confronted them would be 'mauled'. They didn't march and they lost the physical battles in and around the station. One of the funnier claims I've seen has been from Italian Misanthropic Division member Francesco Fontana who reckons anti-fascists are weak because the White Man March attendees weren't all murdered!

But the right don't seem to be taking this entirely badly, for many it seems they enjoyed the buzz. None of the core members of National Action were among the neo-Nazis to be turned over outside Lime Street, (largely because Ashley Bell sprinted up Lord Nelson street and was able to evade the dozens of anti-fascists who gave chase). The rest of them were with the group who hid in the luggage locker. Which would perhaps explain why these are the only two semi-official responses from the group.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 18, 2015)

Sorry but there is no way that Lime Street was anything like Waterloo (or Lewisham for that matter) what so ever.Neither the level of fighting , the opposition on both sides but more importantly the  impact it had on a far larger fascist movement .Well done to the comrades but lets keep things in perspective please.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)

It's like comparing the Falklands to WWII.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)

Sorry, struggling to think of a war where the enemy surrendered immediately.


----------



## cesare (Aug 18, 2015)

It's a bit daft to draw comparisons, dunno who started that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Sorry but there is no way that Lime Street was anything like Waterloo (or Lewisham for that matter) what so ever.Neither the level of fighting , the opposition on both sides but more importantly the  impact it had on a far larger fascist movement .Well done to the comrades but lets keep things in perspective please.


aw


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)

cesare said:


> It's a bit daft to draw comparisons, dunno who started that.



Knowles.. who I thought was called Lowles... but anyway, searchlight so yeah daft.


----------



## cesare (Aug 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Knowles.. who I thought was called Lowles... but anyway, searchlight so yeah daft.


I thought Nick Knowles was the annoying TV presenter that goes round renovating houses


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2015)

cesare said:


> I thought Nick Knowles was the annoying TV presenter that goes round renovating houses


but in his spare time...


----------



## JimW (Aug 18, 2015)

Well, I think it was the Stalingrad of our times.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)

cesare said:


> I thought Nick Knowles was the annoying TV presenter that goes round renovating houses



I'm confused who everyone is on about tbh. Proper genius if it is the house renovation guy!


----------



## cesare (Aug 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm confused who everyone is on about tbh. Proper genius if it is the house renovation guy!


Knowles is on the case. Lowles is on the CAASE.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 18, 2015)




----------



## Red Sky (Aug 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Sorry but there is no way that Lime Street was anything like Waterloo (or Lewisham for that matter) what so ever.Neither the level of fighting , the opposition on both sides but more importantly the  impact it had on a far larger fascist movement .Well done to the comrades but lets keep things in perspective please.



It's significance lies in the fact that it was a total rout. This form of far-right activism i.e full blown white supremacist has only surfaced on the streets in the UK again in the last twelve months. It is the fat end of the EDL wedge. A mass humiliation like this, especially on a movement that attracts people with its bombastic rhetoric of violence may be enough to stop it growing. 

Comparisons and analysis are interesting - Top Trumps style rankings not so much.


----------



## dessiato (Aug 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Sorry, struggling to think of a war where the enemy surrendered immediately.


Conch Republic declared war on the US, opened fire from their navy. They fired a single round, of bread IIRC, then surrendered.


----------



## october_lost (Aug 18, 2015)

The award for totally mis-reporting the event goes to...


> It was interesting how RT totally ignored the Unite Against Fascism anti-nazi demonstration supported by a range of Labour and trade union organisations, and gave big coverage to the Anti-Fascist Network, which contains some people more interested in “street theatre” and letting off smoke bombs. The bulk of Liverpudlians who have a solid reputation as anti-fascist activists concentrated on stopping the small number of nazis who actually made it to Liverpool from leaving Lime Street station.


Searchlight

or, potentially...



> A vibrant 1,000-strong Merseyside Unite Against Fascism (UAF) demonstration marched through the city centre. Merseyside UAF occupied the Nazis’ hoped-for rally point at Pier Head.
> 
> UAF members and supporters also stood with people at Lime Street, where the 24 Nazis decided to abandon their march.


Socialist Worker


----------



## Maharani (Aug 18, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Had a few hows to reflect on this now and today was brilliant.
> 
> Anti fascism has been poor to dire in the North over the last couple of years.  London, Bristol, Brighton, Cardiff, Cambridge have all pulled the stops out.  In Newcastle earlier this year, these twats marched with impunity. The West Midlands has also been poor.
> 
> ...


I'm very, very proud of my Mersyside sisters and brothers and the rest of the impassioned people that made it up to represent for the rest of us. .


----------



## Fingers (Aug 18, 2015)

october_lost said:


> The award for totally mis-reporting the event goes to...
> 
> Searchlight



That Searchlight article was something special [/QUOTE]


----------



## Fingers (Aug 18, 2015)

Oh and the Socialist Worker article as well 

Didn't the UAF march off in the opposite direction?  This is the sort of shit which makes me want nothing to do with them.  If it were not for the AFN/militants/freelancers they would not have been trapped in the lost property. They would have marched.


----------



## Fingers (Aug 18, 2015)

Unity demos as well... whilst I have not got an issue with them, or the people who go on them, they tend to be a fair distance away and tend to achieve not a lot, and tend to start two hours before the fash turn up.

I was a the EDLWHATEVERISWASFOOTYFANS Dudley demo a couple of months ago.  There was sod all opposition apart from myself a few freelancers/AFN/some Villa footy casuals/a few local Asians and a pissed bloke from West Brom.

Hoping NF will be dealt with in a similar manner in Manchester this weekend.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> It's significance lies in the fact that it was a total rout. This form of far-right activism i.e full blown white supremacist has only surfaced on the streets in the UK again in the last twelve months. It is the fat end of the EDL wedge. A mass humiliation like this, especially on a movement that attracts people with its bombastic rhetoric of violence may be enough to stop it growing.
> 
> Comparisons and analysis are interesting - Top Trumps style rankings not so much.


Don't think there are many that would disagree with the sentiments in your penultimate sentence .However  as you correctly put it earlier NA are a c18 tribute act nothing more . 
Interesting that they have been turned over by the EDl as well.


----------



## Fingers (Aug 19, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Don't think there are many that would disagree with the sentiments in your penultimate sentence .However  as you correctly put it earlier NA are a c18 tribute act nothing more .
> Interesting that they have been turned over by the EDl as well.



NA got done over by South Yorkshire Casuals (or was it the other way round?) who are some pissed off EDLers from Sheffield (after Gail Speight Yorkshire Leader nicked a load of money for some booze and some legal highs off the back of people who had carked it or so it goes).

There were a fair few Polish amongst them on Saturday. In fact, a quarter of the Downing Street in July were Polish Fash.  Not sure why the authorities have not made sure they have taken a long break back home yet.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 19, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Oh and the Socialist Worker article as well
> 
> Didn't the UAF march off in the opposite direction?  This is the sort of shit which makes me want nothing to do with them.  If it were not for the AFN/militants/freelancers they would not have been trapped in the lost property. They would have marched.



The UaF 'strategy' is actually worse than doing nothing as it actively draws people _away_ from fash mobilisations. The fact that they also work closely with the police makes it easy to draw conclusions regarding their motives.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Unity demos as well... whilst I have not got an issue with them, or the people who go on them, they tend to be a fair distance away and tend to achieve not a lot, and tend to start two hours before the fash turn up.
> 
> I was a the EDLWHATEVERISWASFOOTYFANS Dudley demo a couple of months ago.  There was sod all opposition apart from myself a few freelancers/AFN/some Villa footy casuals/a few local Asians and a pissed bloke from West Brom.
> 
> Hoping NF will be dealt with in a similar manner in Manchester this weekend.



The ironic thing is that in the 1970s it was the CP that did the unity demo two hours early and miles away from where the fash were and IS/ SWP did the no platform direct action business .the CP influenced NUS denounced the SWP as the ' throw a brick party'


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 19, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Unity demos as well... whilst I have not got an issue with them, or the people who go on them, they tend to be a fair distance away and tend to achieve not a lot, and tend to start two hours before the fash turn up.
> 
> I was a the EDLWHATEVERISWASFOOTYFANS Dudley demo a couple of months ago.  There was sod all opposition apart from myself a few freelancers/AFN/some Villa footy casuals/a few local Asians and a pissed bloke from West Brom.
> 
> Hoping NF will be dealt with in a similar manner in Manchester this weekend.





Citizen66 said:


> The UaF 'strategy' is actually worse than doing nothing as it actively draws people _away_ from fash mobilisations. The fact that they also work closely with the police makes it easy to draw conclusions regarding their motives.



In a sense the AFN call out was a 'unity' demo. It didn't hang its hat on any ideological peg or rely on overtly 'black block antifa' imagery in any of its publicity. What we showed in Liverpool (and previously in Brighton and a few other places) is that it is possible to beat the UAF at their own game - if you put the work in.

The trouble is that some 'militant' anti fascists have a total disdain for doing any organising in the run-up to an event or any kind of year round effort at all. They turn up , wonder where everyone is, then go home to slag the UAF off online for not organising a riot for them.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 19, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> In a sense the AFN call out was a 'unity' demo. It didn't hang its hat on any ideological peg or rely on overtly 'black block antifa' imagery in any of its publicity. What we showed in Liverpool (and previously in Brighton and a few other places) is that it is possible to beat the UAF at their own game - if you put the work in.
> 
> The trouble is that some 'militant' anti fascists have a total disdain for doing any organising in the run-up to an event or any kind of year round effort at all. They turn up , wonder where everyone is, then go home to slag the UAF off online for not organising a riot for them.



It isn't about having a riot, is it? It's acknowledging that dancing around the bongos and listening to the gallery of goons several hundred metres away from the fash mobilisation isn't really any form of opposition.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

wasn't the afa carnival the unity carnival?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

or unity festival...


----------



## JimW (Aug 19, 2015)

Unity Mitford Memorial Picnic


----------



## october_lost (Aug 19, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Unity demos as well... whilst I have not got an issue with them, or the people who go on them, they tend to be a fair distance away and tend to achieve not a lot, and tend to start two hours before the fash turn up.





Red Sky said:


> In a sense the AFN call out was a 'unity' demo.


I took 'unity' to mean class collaboration in this context. Hence Mayor Anderson's involvement with anbodybutthefascists UAF demo at the other end of Liverpool.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2015)

Quite a ot of learning from NA's winter camp a bit under utilised at Lime Street aside from the tactical retreating


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

<>


----------



## jimmer (Aug 19, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> [NA] have been turned over by the EDl as well.





Fingers said:


> NA got done over by South Yorkshire Casuals (or was it the other way round?) who are some pissed off EDLers from Sheffield



I think this is a bit of a myth.

This is what NA said about it in their write up of Rotherham:


> The kosher shills of the E.D.L attempted to ‘bully’ a lone, proud, National Socialist. This would not be tolerated. The E.D.L was confronted and when they realised, that they are now in the minority, they pathetically made excuses and amends stating “We are all in this together.” Then later on jumping the event organiser from behind for his NS sympathies.



This is what the event organiser Wayne Jarvis put up afterwards:






This is what their MMA trainer Jimmy Hey said:






Haven't seen any EDL/SYC types claiming they turned over NA.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 19, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Quite a ot of learning from NA's winter camp a bit under utilised at Lime Street aside from the tactical retreating



They had a summer camp which involved archery and male bonding under waterfalls.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> They had a summer camp which involved archery and male bonding under waterfalls.


robin hood: but no maid marian from the sounds of it.


----------



## krink (Aug 19, 2015)

That Wayne Jarvis appears to have met with Stanley in the 80s when a blade to the face from behind was called a chelsea smile iirc. looks like one across his gob too. doesn't mean anything really though, as my rogue of a younger brother would say "all it proves is you're the mug who got cut"


----------



## Fingers (Aug 19, 2015)

october_lost said:


> I took 'unity' to mean class collaboration in this context. Hence Mayor Anderson's involvement with anbodybutthefascists UAF demo at the other end of Liverpool.



Perhaps Unity Demo was not quite the word I was looking for. I am on about the typical UAF gathering where they assemble miles away to listen to speeches and wave banners about.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Perhaps Unity Demo was not quite the word I was looking for. I am on about the typical UAF gathering where they assemble miles away to listen to speeches and wave banners about whilst listening to speakers.


oh! you meant 'useless demo'


----------



## Fingers (Aug 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh! you meant 'useless demo'



That will be the one.  Walthamstow 1 had the right idea, occupy their demo spot and roads leading up to it.  

Walthamstow II there were only a few of us confronting the actual demo (bumped into you I seem to remember)  Hundreds more were miles away but to be fair, the police were all over us.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 19, 2015)

Don't they call themselves 'witnesses' or some such?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Don't they call themselves 'witnesses' or some such?


ta for reminding me, it's on tonight.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

,


----------



## J Ed (Aug 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> robin hood: but no maid marian from the sounds of it.



It could not have been more clear: No women, no gays


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> It could not have been more clear: No women, no gays


they've certainly nothing with which to attract the fairer sex.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 19, 2015)

I like when they are all rolling around on the floor together with the dramatic music


----------



## likesfish (Aug 19, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> They had a summer camp which involved archery and male bonding under waterfalls.




is it me or does that fuckwit have the armguard on the wrong way ?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Aug 20, 2015)

likesfish said:


> is it me or does that fuckwit have the armguard on the wrong way ?



It would seem sensible to have the protective bit over the skin, past which the arrow and bow string will be flying...we can only hope there wasn't a painful accident.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 20, 2015)

That Searchlight article is beyond the pale. Cheeky cunts.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 20, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> The UaF 'strategy' is actually worse than doing nothing as it actively draws people _away_ from fash mobilisations. The fact that they also work closely with the police makes it easy to draw conclusions regarding their motives.





Citizen66 said:


> It isn't about having a riot, is it? It's acknowledging that dancing around the bongos and listening to the gallery of goons several hundred metres away from the fash mobilisation isn't really any form of opposition.



The UAFs record has been patchy over the years rather than uniformly bad. Sometimes (e.g Slough) they organise their effort right on the far-rights march route. The fact that there is a legit demo  has given freelance anti-fascists a good reason to be in town. It has to be said in their favour that they do try to oppose every far-right march/demo rather than cherry picking as others do.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 20, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> The UAFs record has been patchy over the years rather than uniformly bad. Sometimes (e.g Slough) they organise their effort right on the far-rights march route. The fact that there is a legit demo  has given freelance anti-fascists a good reason to be in town. It has to be said in their favour that they do try to oppose every far-right march/demo rather than cherry picking as others do.



Tbf I imagine it's easier for a national organisation to oppose every demo than it is for an individual 'freelancer'.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 20, 2015)

National Action claim the moral victory -

http:/ /national-action.info/2015/08/20/lets-turn-our-hate-into-action-a-statement-on-the-liverpool-white-man-march/


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 20, 2015)

Their marching anthem, yesterday:


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 20, 2015)

jimmer said:


> National Action claim the moral victory -
> 
> http:/ /national-action.info/2015/08/20/lets-turn-our-hate-into-action-a-statement-on-the-liverpool-white-man-march/



Full blown delusion. They'd have been fucked without the cops.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 20, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Tbf I imagine it's easier for a national organisation to oppose every demo than it is for an individual 'freelancer'.


Also important to remember that UAF is an organisation but actually many of the rallies in their name are organised by local trade unionists, faith groups and Labour party types (no criticism of any of them) who are just using the label and aren't really "UAF".


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 20, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Also important to remember that UAF is an organisation but actually many of the rallies in their name are organised by local trade unionists, faith groups and Labour party types (no criticism of any of them) who are just using the label and aren't really "UAF".



Exactly. Yer man makes it out like it's the same crew dedicating their lives to touring the country and acting as beacons to get 'freelancers' out of bed.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Aug 22, 2015)




----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 22, 2015)

Apparently the Channel 4 show "The Last Leg" was taking the piss out of WMM and NA last night.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Apparently the Channel 4 show "The Last Leg" was taking the piss out of WMM and NA last night.


johnny come latelies  we've been taking the piss out of them for far longer


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 22, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Tbf I imagine it's easier for a national organisation to oppose every demo than it is for an individual 'freelancer'.





Citizen66 said:


> Exactly. Yer man makes it out like it's the same crew dedicating their lives to touring the country and acting as beacons to get 'freelancers' out of bed.



Surely this is indicative of why militant anti fascists need a national organisation?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 22, 2015)

Fingers said:


> That will be the one.  Walthamstow 1 had the right idea, occupy their demo spot and roads leading up to it.
> 
> Walthamstow II there were only a few of us confronting the actual demo (bumped into you I seem to remember)  Hundreds more were miles away but to be fair, the police were all over us.



The reason Walthamstow one was so good was that us lot staged an intervention (i.e got in the road) in sight of the UAF crowd - which then spurred some of them to get in the road and got people moving. In Walthamstow Round Two us lot (in far greater numbers) got in the road but the UAF rally was at the end point of the EDLs march route so there was no chance of galvanising their numbers to take action.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Surely this is indicative of why militant anti fascists need a national organisation?



Or local organisations need better communications between each other, which appears to be happening. 'National Organisation' doesn't seem to work. AFA had branches around the country but afaik they were autonomous in the main apart from national call outs. If you go the everyone under one umbrella route with trade unions and liberals involved, it becomes another paper tiger.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2015)

I suppose it's more that your grass roots antifa need to interact more with the local community in getting them involved as opposed to calling up antifa from 7,000 miles away to get a bus organised. Anyway, I wasn't at Liverpool and I haven't been on an antifa event for a bit so I feel uncomfortable laying criticisms down.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I suppose it's more that your grass roots antifa need to interact more with the local community in getting them involved as opposed to calling up antifa from 7,000 miles away to get a bus organised. Anyway, I wasn't at Liverpool and I haven't been on an antifa event for a bit so I feel uncomfortable laying criticisms down.


i have never been on a uaf event but i'd be comfy laying criticisms down


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i have never been on a uaf event but i'd be comfy laying criticisms down



Of which there are many.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I suppose it's more that your grass roots antifa need to interact more with the local community in getting them involved



UaF acts as a brake on this though. They will always have the means to promote themselves as the 'official' anti presence. So new interested parties go and check out the museum rather than the live act.


----------



## miktheword (Aug 23, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> UaF acts as a brake on this though. They will always have the means to promote themselves as the 'official' anti presence. So new interested parties go and check out the museum rather than the live act.






Never been with them either... do they provide you with lollipops and crash barriers or are you expected to bring your own?


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 23, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> They had a summer camp which involved archery and male bonding under waterfalls.




20 seconds in and the first man you see is clutching his horn , waving it around proud as punch . Fnyarr .

The image of an elite fascist einstazgruppen making its way through the wilds of yorkshire is a bit spoilt at 50 seconds in by the punter carrying a plastic bag with his crisps and coke in it, held out to the side like a 17 year old girl delicately picking her way through the mud at Glastonbury .


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 23, 2015)

Respect to everyone involved in this. Always good to see NF and NA put on their arses.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 23, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Or local organisations need better communications between each other, which appears to be happening. 'National Organisation' doesn't seem to work. AFA had branches around the country but afaik they were autonomous in the main apart from national call outs. If you go the everyone under one umbrella route with trade unions and liberals involved, it becomes another paper tiger.



It also becomes easier to infiltrate and prosecute if things are under a national umbrella. The 'cell' structure is better for keeping responsibility with individuals to decide on their actions and take the consequences rather than having a national organisation that could be fined or banned.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> It also becomes easier to infiltrate and prosecute if things are under a national umbrella. The 'cell' structure is better for keeping responsibility with individuals to decide on their actions and take the consequences rather than having a national organisation that could be fined or banned.


cell is such an ugly word.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 23, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> cell is such an ugly word.



True. 'Group' is better,  but not 'Division'  unless you're some kind of movement for hyperbolic bellends that like to play soldiers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 23, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> True. 'Group' is better,  but not 'Division'  unless you're some kind of movement for hyperbolic bellends that like to play soldiers.



Sort of suits their divisive politics. It's about the only bit of honesty they're capable of.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> True. 'Group' is better,  but not 'Division'  unless you're some kind of movement for hyperbolic bellends that like to play soldiers.


squad


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 23, 2015)

Group is fine - cell/squad/viperforce are all a bit Walter Mitty


----------



## JimW (Aug 23, 2015)

Iron Column if the hubris is particularly strong that morning.


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> squad


You one of those Squaddist splitters?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2015)

If I was not a weakling with the leadership skills of a dorito my antifa outfit would be called The Neccesary. Gotta keep one eye on the potential title for a film adapt you see.

but to be serious- there was serious attempts to get RA in the 'domestic terrorist' bracket from what I read in BtF. So having overtyly militarised names is probably not a good one I'd assume. You get Shady Mgee trying to have a judge sign off on some police naughtiness and they can go 'this is The Militant Hammer of The Fascist gang, we need the powers to deal' and crusty old jon thaw signs it straight away


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 23, 2015)

I like how Joe Owens is now the disappointed dad of UK Nationalism.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> If I was not a weakling with the leadership skills of a dorito my antifa outfit would be called The Neccesary. Gotta keep one eye on the potential title for a film adapt you see.


 
I like how you've misspelled it, too, for that added google punch


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 24, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> I like how you've misspelled it, too, for that added google punch


three times I've tried to install google chromes spellchecker on this machine now, still no joy. Exasperating. Spesh given my other ineptitudes, its a right ballache


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 24, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> True. 'Group' is better,  but not 'Division'  unless you're some kind of movement for hyperbolic bellends that like to play soldiers.



waltsatzgruppen. when the useless BPP - wat-no-money, morrison, williamson - were around they divided the country up into individual 'Gaus'  with their own 'Gauleiters.' they love masquerading as 'foot soldiers' and 'officers' but this one really takes the garibaldi.


----------



## albionism (Aug 24, 2015)

What does the "sc" stand for?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Aug 24, 2015)

albionism said:


> What does the "sc" stand for?


Silly Cunts?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2015)

Harry Smiles said:


> Silly Cunts?


must be.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> waltsatzgruppen. when the useless BPP - wat-no-money, morrison, williamson - were around they divided the country up into individual 'Gaus'  with their own 'Gauleiters.' they love masquerading as 'foot soldiers' and 'officers' but this one really takes the garibaldi.
> View attachment 75764


shurely 'serjeant at arms'?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I like how Joe Owens is now the disappointed dad of UK Nationalism.



There's a few on here who'd probably enjoy a chinwag and a moan with him about the youth of today.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> There's a few on here who'd probably enjoy a chinwag and a moan with him about the youth of today.


name names


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

Actually afaik I few of them did when he rocked up to MATB. Although I'm not sure if they discussed the youth of today.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 24, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> name names



Do I need to?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Do I need to?



Two months here and you know everyone so well.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 24, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> waltsatzgruppen. when the useless BPP - wat-no-money, morrison, williamson - were around they divided the country up into individual 'Gaus'  with their own 'Gauleiters.' they love masquerading as 'foot soldiers' and 'officers' but this one really takes the garibaldi.
> View attachment 75764




That's exactly like the fucking UDA and UVF . " brigadier " this, "general " that . The best one I heard yet was " chief provost Marshall "....some fat cunt in a pub like . I've seen this past while the English fash seem to be modelling more aspects of their stuff on the loyalist angle, corresponding with a massive rise in racial attacks across Belfast .

Back in the 1970s there was an incident in the Crumlin rd jail , were the imprisoned loyalists were forever marching about and saluting in makeshift uniforms and calling themselves by these mad titles . Legendary old school IRA leader Billy McKee was having a shave one morning in his cell and he hears these feet marching up the wing , then stamping to attention outside his door . He looks round and there's this loyalist twat saluting him .
" General McKee..General Gusty Spence requests an urgent conference at 11 hundred hours "

" Kindly tell General Spence that Fieldmarshall McKee is currently indisposed " says Billy, and goes back to his shave .

Wankers


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I like how Joe Owens is now the disappointed dad of UK Nationalism.




Indeed , but I think he makes a few points that are worth noting . In the past few months there's been a few fash manifestations that seem totally bizarre even by fash standards . They've attracted major media attention but virtually zero...in fact minus... in terms of popular interaction or support in the way BNP or EDL  ....hell even back in the day NF , have accomplished . Their only accomplishment has been to absolutely sicken public opinion by the total rawness of their loony hate message , something the fash have spent a long time downplaying and pushing more insidious stuff like " patriotism " " anti sharia " anti extremism "  " democracy " etc .
These recent fash gatherings seem so oddball and so calculated to cause offence while driving any potential supporters away you really have to wonder what the fucks going on . We already have a case were precedents have been set with certain fash prosecutions that could have serious repercussions for progressives who fall foul of the establishment . I agree with that guy that it's highly likely there's a number of hidden hands at work behind this .and there's quite likely a state agenda with these useful idiots playing the Trojan horse role . It stinks frankly and I think it's something people should be aware of once the congratulations die down .

There's something about this last few fash appearances....the white mans march and the anti Jewish rally in London...that strike me as more than a bit fishy  , and that there may be a bigger agenda afoot .


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

Of course it could be just because they're young and naive. I certainly don't see them coming out with anything that the far right don't say, although most express the darker stuff privately.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Do I need to?


might as well


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

I'd rather the lunatic fringe be in the spotlight rather than Owen, who seems dangerously sensible despite his awful politics.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course it could be just because they're young and naive. I certainly don't see them coming out with anything that the far right don't say, although most express the darker stuff privately.



I think it's also possible that the underlying psychological motivation is more about wanting to appear hard than persuading people over to your politics. Possibly magnified by internet posturing.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I think it's also possible that the underlying psychological motivation is more about wanting to appear hard than persuading people over to your politics. Possibly magnified by internet posturing.



I've been following the thread on shitcunt. It's quite revealing how they think. They use left wing language transposed onto right wing rhetoric (no change there) with stuff like 'race consciousness' instead of class consciousness. Their politics strays into some bizarre territories. They are in favour of a United Ireland as the White brothers of the North and South should unite against foreign invaders (of a dark rather than lighter hue, natch) which has caused other boneheads to choke on their British fish and chips.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'd rather the lunatic fringe be in the spotlight rather than Owen, who seems dangerously sensible despite his awful politics.



My thoughts exactly ...at least as regards the dangerously sensible bit . That's quite a collection of literature on his book case . And as a fash stalwart he's seen more agents come and go , more state destabilisation , internal manipulation and all the rest than he's had hot dinners . 
There's a flip side though , and that is if he's right then these easily led and influenced loonies are there for the sole purpose of getting protests banned , securing precedents for increased state harassment of activists and generally manipulating and creating confusion amongst the general public . Now obviously Owens is only worried about the repercussions for British fascism in general . But plainly the repercussions go a lot further than that .
In my view it's a case of be careful what you wish for, because you might get it .
While the loony fash are an easy target and an easy win ,what may well be the hidden hand behind this stuff is a lot more dangerous . No matter how outwardly sensible the likes of Owens  is the downfall of people like him will always be that he's fucking wrong, and that his message will always attract wrong uns . It can be tackled head on , whether ideologically , logically, socially or if needs be physically . If those tackling it have their act together .

This other stuff, if it has another agenda , can't be . Because that agenda is hidden . And even when the fash are extirpated from the scene it doesn't matter because the damage has been done . I hope Owens is wrong but he has the insights into these people and seems to know what he's talking about .


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 24, 2015)

Btw Searchlight/ MI5 are insinuating in their own snide way that it'sPutin and the Russians who are behind all this recent loony fascist stuff . It must be, because as we all know it's unprecedented for Searchlight to point people in completely the wrong direction .

Eta

But what's worth noting is that it's now not just Joe Owens pointing to a hidden hand manipulating this stuff .


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## Casually Red (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course it could be just because they're young and naive. I certainly don't see them coming out with anything that the far right don't say, although most express the darker stuff privately.



Which might be the case if the WMM was viewed  in isolation from what the far from young Stampton and co have been at almost simultaneously at the other end of England , with the very same over hyped media attention for a handful of losers and loons .


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## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

Of course the spooks try to embed themselves in radical groups. But they can't actually _force_ people to act like fringe loons. They do that entirely off their own back. Unless NA is entirely composed of spooks? 
It's daft kids being daft. And by the time they're old enough to 'learn lessons' and start doing politics proper, there'll be a new generation of far right kids fucking it all up.
Works for me.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

Fucking hell. I got a 'like' from DC.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 24, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> That's exactly like the fucking UDA and UVF . " brigadier " this, "general " that . The best one I heard yet was " chief provost Marshall "....some fat cunt in a pub like



When it comes to pompous hierarchy in a racially orientated organisation, then the Klan are surely the go-to men "Grand Wizard Dragon Knight Martial"? - put that in yer Gauleiter's pipe and smoke it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Fucking hell. I got a 'like' from DC.


I don't know who that bloke is- a player back in the day, streetfighting against AFA and that? but his bollocking is hilarious as is the downfall parody


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 24, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Which might be the case if the WMM was viewed  in isolation from what the far from young Stampton and co have been at almost simultaneously at the other end of England , with the very same over hyped media attention for a handful of losers and loons .



The media attention is kind of predictable and I don't think we need a hidden hand to explain it. What Stampton did was entirely for the benefit of the media. Having spent the afternoon watching him in his pen on Whitehall I was speculating about whether to organise a satanic exorcism of St Paul's Cathedral and whether me and three mates could manage to grab the national news agenda for a bit.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I don't know who that bloke is- a player back in the day, streetfighting against AFA and that? but his bollocking is hilarious as is the downfall parody



Yeah he's old school. Has a grudging respect for AFA. Been accused of murder.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

I still haven't finished reading his book actually. Street Fighting Man (?; Stones Fan?) and freely available online. It's an ego fest tbh.


----------



## miktheword (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Yeah he's old school. Has a grudging respect for AFA. Been accused of murder.







His book is meant to be an ego fest, was warned off from reading it. But he doesn't mind giving credit where it's due..to AFA before, saying that modern day fash wouldn't have lasted long 'back in the day'  on one of their forums a few years back ...Stormfront maybe... (not meant to be provoking a response about 'all our yesterdays,  Redsky ).

 He has been up on murder charge as you say, also came a cropper a couple of times by some RA scouse mate and his seriously proper brother who was active only when the fash turned up in his city...and it was good to know there were quite a few of them 'once a year's' to be called on.


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## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

I actually reckon Owens will turn. He's in the zone now. But it'll be an 11th hour deal - death bed stuff. No use to anyone other than himself, based on the Christians being right.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 24, 2015)




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## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

How's it going comedy glasses?

This is the music that the psycho used to play when slaughtering everyone in the football stadium for the non existant football team in Equatorial Guinea, according to the Daily Mail.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> How's it going comedy glasses?
> 
> This is the music that the psycho used to play when slaughtering everyone in the football stadium for the non existant football team in Equatorial Guinea, according to the Daily Mail.



I had to look that up - fucking hell. Dressed as Santa Claus. And the re-naming of Fernado Po - centrally significant location in the Illuminatus trilogy.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

Euro Pop more his bag though.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

There's a better more camp example that I can't find as its since been drowned out by the boring versions.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 24, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> When it comes to pompous hierarchy in a racially orientated organisation, then the Klan are surely the go-to men "Grand Wizard Dragon Knight Martial"? - put that in yer Gauleiter's pipe and smoke it.



TBF, IIRC the original Klan rank and title system was borrowed from Freemasonry and somewhat further ornamented.


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## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2015)

There was a Grand Wizard or some shit who lives in Easington. Perhaps not any more.


----------



## miktheword (Aug 24, 2015)

Red Sky said:


>


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Actually afaik I few of them did when he rocked up to MATB. Although I'm not sure if they discussed the youth of today.



Discussed his youth with him actually  and someone having a go at his mums house. Didn't Eddie Morrison pitch up at one point as well?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Aug 25, 2015)

My friend drove a JCB over to Joeys mothers house after Joey had been very naughty to his black wife and mixed race kids. Joey wasn't in but the message was delivered that if he wanted war on the home front his mothers house would be coming down.


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## Casually Red (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course the spooks try to embed themselves in radical groups. But they can't actually _force_ people to act like fringe loons. They do that entirely off their own back. Unless NA is entirely composed of spooks?
> It's daft kids being daft. And by the time they're old enough to 'learn lessons' and start doing politics proper, there'll be a new generation of far right kids fucking it all up.
> Works for me.



They don't force, they point, nudge, encourage..plant the seed . And it's precisely because they're daft nobody asks themselves...hold on a minute .

All I'm saying is twats like that ...in this day and age of Kettling and almost everything being illegal...may well set precedents for further restrictions on protests and actions . and that Stampton and co ...people whom it could be adduced are state...aren't kids but are doing the very same thing at the very same time . It's v fishy .


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 25, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> waltsatzgruppen. when the useless BPP - wat-no-money, morrison, williamson - were around they divided the country up into individual 'Gaus'  with their own 'Gauleiters.' they love masquerading as 'foot soldiers' and 'officers' but this one really takes the garibaldi.
> View attachment 75764



Didn't they have a Liverpool moment in Leeds when about the same number had a ' stop selling rap music' demo at HMV?


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## tony.c (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> There was a Grand Wizard or some shit who lives in Easington. Perhaps not any more.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/we-expose-vile-racist-biker-as-british-86445


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## The39thStep (Aug 25, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Indeed , but I think he makes a few points that are worth noting . In the past few months there's been a few fash manifestations that seem totally bizarre even by fash standards . They've attracted major media attention but virtually zero...in fact minus... in terms of popular interaction or support in the way BNP or EDL  ....hell even back in the day NF , have accomplished . Their only accomplishment has been to absolutely sicken public opinion by the total rawness of their loony hate message , something the fash have spent a long time downplaying and pushing more insidious stuff like " patriotism " " anti sharia " anti extremism "  " democracy " etc .
> These recent fash gatherings seem so oddball and so calculated to cause offence while driving any potential supporters away you really have to wonder what the fucks going on . We already have a case were precedents have been set with certain fash prosecutions that could have serious repercussions for progressives who fall foul of the establishment . I agree with that guy that it's highly likely there's a number of hidden hands at work behind this .and there's quite likely a state agenda with these useful idiots playing the Trojan horse role . It stinks frankly and I think it's something people should be aware of once the congratulations die down .
> 
> There's something about this last few fash appearances....the white mans march and the anti Jewish rally in London...that strike me as more than a bit fishy  , and that there may be a bigger agenda afoot .



That's a very interesting point.part of the BNPs success was its modernisation of its message and it actually seeking out local community issues by engaging with the community. The fact that they weren't marching about with Hitler was right posters meant that the ' antifa types' were pretty much redundant and invisible when it came to taking them on .( if anyone has read the last Hann book you notice how the book just stumbles and bumbles in finding anything of substance in its last chapter/s ) . 
Even the EDL managed to attract a sympathetic response in some areas through highlighting and providing its own narrative over child exploitation. But these latest stunts by the far right fragments  only seem to engage the anti fascists .


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## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Didn't they have a Liverpool moment in Leeds when about the same number had a ' stop selling rap music' demo at HMV?


Yes. the BPP - grass kevin wat-no-money, his wife Caitleen McDermody, possibly police grass Tony White as well, were surrounded by 100s of local antifascists then humiliaitingly escorted out of the area by plod for their own safety in asian run taxis. I think it was also when one prominent alcoholic trouser fouler was apprehended and relieved of a briefcase with various sandwiches and intell in it.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'd rather the lunatic fringe be in the spotlight rather than Owen, who seems dangerously sensible despite his awful politics.



although they hate each other, owens and edmonds actually have a pretty sensible handle on all of this. i was saying the same thing about NA tweenies, WMM, anti-shomrim etc. so hi-profile, so obviously monitored, organised by less than trustworthy fash - edmonds, diddyfiddler - that it seems almost insane to align yourself with them. in manchester, the fash were escorted out on 1 bus by plod who stood there filming each and every one. easy intel grab. whats the agenda? and whose is it? the main bods can be easily compromised given their appalling records and dealings.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

fiannanahalba said:


> My friend drove a JCB over to Joeys mothers house after Joey had been very naughty to his black wife and mixed race kids. Joey wasn't in but the message was delivered that if he wanted war on the home front his mothers house would be coming down.



why didnt you tell us earlier? that is a definitely book worthy anecdote! i also didnt realise about his wife and kids altho i know he was done for wife beating, as was diddyfiddler who attacked his pregnant partner in newcastle. nice guys.


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## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> why didnt you tell us earlier? that is a definitely book worthy anecdote! i also didnt realise about his wife and kids altho i know he was done for wife beating, as was diddyfiddler who attacked his pregnant partner in newcastle. nice guys.



I think he meant the JCB drivers wife and kids... Not sure, it confused me aswell.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

oh, i see. i shall amend his report card for this term accordingly for poor grammar.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> oh, i see. i shall amend his report card for this term accordingly for poor grammar.


yours or his?


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## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

pickmans, always perfectly and pleasurably pedantic!


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## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> pickmans, always perfectly and pleasurably pedantic!


malatesta, always averse to apostrophes!


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## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

Pickman's averse to upper case letters.


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## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> and that Stampton and co ...people whom it could be adduced are state...aren't kids but are doing the very same thing at the very same time . It's v fishy .



And on the other hand not so fishy at all.

It is quite possible that Stampton, for example, is an ideologically committed, lifelong National Socialist who regards the 'purity' of the Nazi message as paramount and regards the BNP as Race Traitors for following the euro-Fash route.

His personal Nazi ideology - and his considerable vanity - would be sufficient for him to want to establish himself as the keeper of the true NS flame - without his having to be an agent of the State to do so.


e2a: it is also standard practice for every malcontented fash to accuse every other fash of being a state agent and repeat ad nauseum. 

Just as repeating a lie often enough til it becomes the accepted 'truth' it is a proper old-school fash propaganda tactic.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Pickman's averse to upper case letters.


yeh cos i'm an anti-capitalist.


----------



## cesare (Aug 25, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh cos i'm an anti-capitalist


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## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh cos i'm an anti-capitalist.



You're taller than me.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

cesare said:


>


in addition, as anyone who has met me and seen my diminutive height can confirm, i am a small lettrist.


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## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

You edited so now my post looks stupid.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> You edited so now my post looks stupid.


have a like to quiet you down


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> You're taller than me.









citizen66 recently


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## Casually Red (Aug 25, 2015)

LiamO said:


> And on the other hand not so fishy at all.
> 
> It is quite possible that Stampton, for example, is an ideologically committed, lifelong National Socialist who regards the 'purity' of the Nazi message as paramount and regards the BNP as Race Traitors for following the euro-Fash route.
> 
> ...




But the fact is so many of them were/ are . So many of their faces were so deeply disfunctional as human beings ...from addictions, wife beating, kiddy fiddling, closeted homosexuals or conflicted somehow in their sexuality, basic greed and financial corruption , criminals, egotists whodtake deals in order to go up the ladder, they must have been an absolute gift to turn . And look at them every time they seemed on the verge of real break throughs, from the NF in 79 to the BNP electoral rise.....almost on cue they imploded internally . The rug pulled clean put from under them internally time and time again . Like clockwork, like turning off a tap . And that C18 malarkey was SB from start to finish .
So it's no surprise there's loads of malcontented ones pointing fingers...it doesn't mean they were wrong on that score . Although I take your point there were plenty of them using the accusation to discredit rivals . But that in itself is also a pointer of what happens when major infiltration occurs . Internal chaos .

Just looking at this what I can see is that in an era of mass austerity,banker bail outs, food banks , repeated assaults on civil liberties and the right to protest and these handfuls of clowns look to be leading people on the left a merry dance . Setting a very bizarre and pointless agenda , that of course people on the left certainly cant let go unanswered and unchallenged . Looks to me like a tail wagging a dog in some ways .
Not that I'm suggesting for a second they should be ignored . That type of message simply can't be .


----------



## cesare (Aug 25, 2015)

I don't think that "closeted homosexuals or [people otherwise] conflicted somehow in their sexuality" are deeply dysfunctional


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## ddraig (Aug 25, 2015)

does seem to be a bit of homophobia being chucked about now and then here


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## Casually Red (Aug 25, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> although they hate each other, owens and edmonds actually have a pretty sensible handle on all of this. i was saying the same thing about NA tweenies, WMM, anti-shomrim etc. so hi-profile, so obviously monitored, organised by less than trustworthy fash - edmonds, diddyfiddler - that it seems almost insane to align yourself with them. in manchester, the fash were escorted out on 1 bus by plod who stood there filming each and every one. easy intel grab. whats the agenda? and whose is it? the main bods can be easily compromised given their appalling records and dealings.



Absolutely . Clowns like that are a gift .


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

cesare said:


> I don't think that "closeted homosexuals or [people otherwise] conflicted somehow in their sexuality" are deeply dysfunctional


they are if they're also fascists. not to my mind the sexuality but the politicks.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 25, 2015)

cesare said:


> I don't think that "closeted homosexuals or [people otherwise] conflicted somehow in their sexuality" are deeply dysfunctional




If its joe soap who just likes a pint at the weekend certainly . However if it's someone up to their necks in an outfit actively promoting anti gay hatred and were being gay could get you kicked to death then it makes you extremely disfunctional in my book . And very easy to turn given the possible consequences of exposure .


Il just save time and trouble here and  say prior to any homophobic witch hunt bollocks anyone contemplating such a course can go and fuck themselves . In advance .
Not pointing any fingers , but I'll just put it out there . Saves time .


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 25, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> they are if they're also fascists. not to my mind the sexuality but the politicks.



I thought that was perfectly obvious . But it's this place...so it wasn't .


----------



## cesare (Aug 25, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> they are if they're also fascists. not to my mind the sexuality but the politicks.


Oh yeah. I'd forgotten that the context was antifascism rather than opposing same sex marriage. Cheers


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

cesare said:


> I don't think that "closeted homosexuals or [people otherwise] conflicted somehow in their sexuality" are deeply dysfunctional





ddraig said:


> does seem to be a bit of homophobia being chucked about now and then here



In fairness, CR is referring to the presence of so many clossetted gay men in organisations that specifically - and often physically - attack gays. eg Martin Webster of the old NF or Nicky Crane of Blood & Honour.

He is also bang on about the amount of general misfits, social inadequates, deadbeats and wierdos the far right traditionally attracts (bit like the Left do... only loads worserer)


----------



## cesare (Aug 25, 2015)

LiamO said:


> In fairness, CR is referring to the presence of so many clossetted gay men in organisations that specifically - and often physically - attack gays. eg Martin Webster of the old NF or Nicky Crane of Blood & Honour.
> 
> He is also bang on about the amount of general misfits, social inadequates, deadbeats and wierdos the far right traditionally attracts (bit like the Left do... only loads worserer)


Aye, but it's strange to see it described as deeply dysfunctional when you could just as easily describe opposing same sex marriage for antifa as deeply dysfunctional. It just looks a bit hypocritical.


----------



## belboid (Aug 25, 2015)

ddraig said:


> does seem to be a bit of homophobia being chucked about now and then here


seeing as it comes from the boards biggest homophobe, this is hardly surprising


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

Plenty of life left in the thread now.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 25, 2015)

This thread can go and fuck itself


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## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

Short lived revival then.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

cesare said:


> Aye, but it's strange to see it described as deeply dysfunctional when you could just as easily describe opposing same sex marriage for antifa as deeply dysfunctional. It just looks a bit hypocritical.



I'm not going to engage with malignancies like Bell-end but I think your post is well worthy of further discussion Greebo.

Tbf you are comparing apples and pears.

Casually Red is not in favour of same sex marriage. Some may think that precludes him from being an active anti-Fascist. I certainly don't. He has explained his thinking on the issue many times. I strongly disagree with him as do most people on here. However his personal views on same sex marriage have never stopped him defending gay rights in general, or indeed physically defending gay men when threatened/bullied by homophobes (I have personally witnessed him do the former many, many times and the latter twice).

You cannot IMO reasonably compare him, his views or how he has chosen to express them with those of a secretly gay man who is a member of a Fascist organisation which actively promotes and encourages the social and physical persecution of gay people. Fascist groups have long been a haven for such 'deeply dysfunctional' people and _IMO the term CR used is a legitimate one._

That should be left for hysterical fools like Bell-end.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

You mean cesare not Greebo


----------



## cesare (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm not doing a like-for-like comparison, LiamO, it was more of an eyebrow raise which would probably have been simply an eyebrow raise and no more if he hadn't gone all pre-emptive attack. So now it's an eye brow raise and a roll eye.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> You mean cesare not Greebo



It's easy to confuse two of my favourite posters


----------



## belboid (Aug 25, 2015)

LiamO said:


> I'm not going to engage with malignancies like Bell-end but I think your post is well worthy of further discussion Greebo.
> 
> Tbf you are comparing apples and pears.
> 
> ...


he frequently makes homophobic comments, and often phrases his dislike of people in homophobic terms. you can pretend that doesn't make him a homophobe if you like, but that just makes you almost as dishonest as him. You _can _be a bigot and an anti-fascist.  But you'll be a shit one who shouldn't be trusted.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

cesare said:


> I'm not doing a like-for-like comparison, LiamO, it was more of an eyebrow raise which would probably have been simply an eyebrow raise and no more if he hadn't gone all pre-emptive attack. So now it's an eye brow raise and a roll eye.




fairy nuff.

I would imagine that the pre-emptive strike from CR was aimed at the Bell-end's of this world rather than your, more considered, approach.

I should really have addressed bell-end - but his angry little pixie routine bores me.


----------



## belboid (Aug 25, 2015)

LiamO said:


> fairy nuff.
> 
> I would imagine that the pre-emptive strike from CR was aimed at the Bell-end's of this world rather than your, more considered, approach.
> 
> I should really have addressed bell-end - but his angry little pixie routine bores me.


You defend a bigot, you're as bad as him.  I'll happily oppose his bigotry at every opportunity.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

yawn


----------



## belboid (Aug 25, 2015)

I'm sorry you find opposing bigotry boring.  But not surprised.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

yawn.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

belboid said:


> I'm sorry you find opposing bigotry boring.  But not surprised.


at this point you're wittering on about opposing bigotry instead of opposing bigotry. and it is extremely boring to hear you wittering on about opposing bigotry.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

Come on chaps. We'll never reach 30 pages at this rate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Come on chaps. We'll never reach 30 pages at this rate.


the 30 pages put end to end will be further than the na managed to walk in liverpool.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

yeah, maybe the agenda is to distract the left and direct their energies against the tiny far right as opposed to organising in our communities, workplaces etc.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

I don't think they actually have a strategy.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

not them, i mean 'interested parties.' remember alan lake/ayling & EDL etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2015)

crivvens Pickmans, you're on the ball today.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

He's been at the catnip again.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

I can't help but wonder did/do the Bell-ends of this world subject their gangster friend, Lutfur Rahman, to an inquisition on his views on same sex marriage, or indeed homosexuality in general, before they decided to back him... no matter what evidence pointed to his corruption?

I'll take a wild guess at 'No'.

There you go Casually Red, your fault for being a whitey. No bye-ball for you, as Paddy does not quite hack it on the privilege scale these days.


----------



## belboid (Aug 25, 2015)

LiamO said:


> I can't help but wonder did/do the Bell-ends of this world subject their gangster friend, Lutfur Rahman, to an inquisition on his views on same sex marriage, or indeed homosexuality in general, before they decided to back him... no matter what evidence pointed to his corruption?
> 
> I'll take a wild guess at 'No'.
> 
> There you go Casually Red, your fault for being a whitey. No bye-ball for you, as Paddy does not quite hack it on the privilege scale these days.


wow, just wow. You are truly disgusting.

Rahman supported the campaign to keep the Old Ship open, btw, and has not made any homophobic public comments that i know of.  The poster you are defending had, and frequently does.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

yawn


----------



## belboid (Aug 25, 2015)

LiamO said:


> yawn


put me on ignore then, if you refuse to back up your slanders. Or just fuck off.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 25, 2015)

yawn


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 25, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> not them, i mean 'interested parties.' remember alan lake/ayling & EDL etc.



Following the thread on twatfuck there's suggestions, and subsequent denials, that some outfit called western spring either fund some of these events, or pretend to. Who they?

http://www.wester
nspring.co.uk


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

belboid said:


> wow, just wow. You are truly disgusting.
> 
> Rahman supported the campaign to keep the Old Ship open, btw, and has not made any homophobic public comments that i know of.  The poster you are defending had, and frequently does.



Oh fuck off


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

belboid said:


> You defend a bigot, you're as bad as him.  I'll happily oppose his bigotry at every opportunity.



Fuck off


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

cesare said:


> I'm not doing a like-for-like comparison, LiamO, it was more of an eyebrow raise which would probably have been simply an eyebrow raise and no more if he hadn't gone all pre-emptive attack. So now it's an eye brow raise and a roll eye.



You too 
Eyebrow raise my hole, it was a fox hunters horn. We've sniffed one out , tally ho chaps . Fucking laughable .


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> You too
> Eyebrow raise my hole, it was a fox hunters horn. We've sniffed one out , tally ho chaps . Fucking laughable .


Fuck off.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

belboid said:


> You defend a bigot, you're as bad as him.  I'll happily oppose his bigotry at every opportunity.



Kiss my arse while you're at it


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

cesare said:


> Fuck off.



Raises eyebrow


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Raises eyebrow


Rolls eyes


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

cesare said:


> Rolls eyes


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

Casually Red said:


>


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

cesare said:


> Aye, but it's strange to see it described as deeply dysfunctional when you could just as easily describe opposing same sex marriage for antifa as deeply dysfunctional. It just looks a bit hypocritical.



Pro ...or anti...same sex marriage has got absolutely zero to do with with anti fascism . Or socialism . Hilary Clinton is neither an anti fascist nor a socialist . Richard Branson is neither an anti fascist nor a socialist . Billionaire CEOs of multinational gonglomerates are neither anti fascist or socialist . Your judgmental little exclusionary bubble is just that . Nothing more . 

I generally appreciate your posts but I most certainly do not appreciate either being sniffily judged or smugly excluded from what passes as civilised discourse on a matter that is purely personal conscience , and absolutely nothing to do with either socialism or anti fascism . I do not, and never have , practice the politics of hate or exclusion . Either personally or ideologically . My failure to be an atheistic liberal isn't a failure . And you've no right to blacken my character or beliefs over it .


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Pro ...or anti...same sex marriage has got absolutely zero to do with with anti fascism . Or socialism . Hilary Clinton is neither an anti fascist nor a socialist . Richard Branson is neither an anti fascist nor a socialist . Billionaire CEOs of multinational gonglomerates are neither anti fascist or socialist . Your judgmental little exclusionary bubble is just that . Nothing more .
> 
> I generally appreciate your posts but I most certainly do not appreciate either being sniffily judged or smugly excluded from what passes as civilised discourse on a matter that is purely personal conscience , and absolutely nothing to do with either socialism or anti fascism . I do not, and never have , practice the politics of hate or exclusion . Either personally or ideologically . My failure to be an atheistic liberal isn't a failure . And you've no right to blacken my character or beliefs over it .


I haven't blackened your fucking character or beliefs you hyperbolic soap sud.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

cesare said:


>


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

Casually Red said:


>


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

cesare said:


>


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

Casually Red said:


>


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2015)

is this what we are reduced to? Argument via meme? for gods sake people, whats next- emoticon wars? Its the fall of rome I tell thee


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> is this what we are reduced to? Argument via meme? for gods sake people, whats next- emoticon wars? Its the fall of rome I tell thee


Spoilsport. I hardly ever get the chance


----------



## Sweet FA (Aug 27, 2015)

Half time change sides.


----------



## cesare (Aug 27, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> Half time change sides.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> is this what we are reduced to? Argument via meme? for gods sake people, whats next- emoticon wars? Its the fall of rome I tell thee


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 27, 2015)

What a weird finale.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 27, 2015)

LiamO said:


> hysterical fools .


----------



## LiamO (Aug 27, 2015)

Well that's all moved jauntily along, hasn't it?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 28, 2015)

A weird two day silence before spilling out into the pub car park.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 28, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> A weird two day silence before spilling out into the pub car park.



A spilling that, completely coincidentally, coincided with payday for Casually Red


----------



## LiamO (Aug 28, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> Half time change sides.



Change _ends_, Shirley?


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 28, 2015)

LiamO said:


> A spilling that, completely coincidentally, coincided with payday for Casually Red


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2015)

strong drink has been taken, as they say in them police statements. Why do they say that? why not just say 'he had a skinful, four stellas at the arse&elbow, another two plus jamesons chasers at the ball&cock then a big pipe of crack round [inserst adress here]'


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> strong drink has been taken, as they say in them police statements. Why do they say that? why not just say 'he had a skinful, four stellas at the arse&elbow, another two plus jamesons chasers at the ball&cock then a big pipe of crack round [inserst adress here]'












Who the fuck asked you big nose / speccy 4 eyes ?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2015)

don't be mocking the raider.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 28, 2015)

The Raider and full Neeson would be essential members of a top anti fascist squad


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 28, 2015)

Casually Red said:


>



Fruit machines have got really weird recently.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 28, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> The Raider and full Neeson would be essential members of an all-new Blazin' Squad


 
CFY


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 28, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Fruit machines have got really weird recently.


you wouldn't want the jackpot!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> don't be mocking the raider.


it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 28, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Fruit machines have got really weird recently.



and what happens if you get the middle one 3 times? eeek!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 28, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> and what happens if you get the middle one 3 times? eeek!







a jackpot winner recently


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 28, 2015)

blimey i almost choked on me breakfast wild boar burger with emmental cheese after seeing that.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 28, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Oh fuck off



not really the thread for it (and leaving yr anti gay marriage bollocks well alone) , but that's a shit reply to what was an interesting point ( assuming it's  verifiable ) ie : I've only ever heard the anti Rahman stuff -  the idea that contrary to what would be expected, he in fact supported a local gay pub is interesting / significant / worth a proper response ?


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 29, 2015)




----------



## Red Sky (Aug 29, 2015)

.


----------



## Shechemite (Sep 1, 2015)

There was an interview with an NA member earlier today on Victoria Derbyshire (now on iPlayer). Thought it would be an enlightening. Naive really, it was all a bit Philomena Cunk.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 2, 2015)

Strange accent for Bognor Regis.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 5, 2015)

NA tweenies return to liverpool?
Live: Neo-Nazis and anti-fascists to protest in Liverpool city centre
AFs ready and waiting.
Joe Thomas (@joe_thomas18) on Twitter


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 5, 2015)

they embarrassed many nazis last time. if its a no-show, the tweenies will say it was a wind-up but they really bottled it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 5, 2015)

and the NA Tweenies have bottled it. antifa knew what train they were on.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 5, 2015)




----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 5, 2015)

Cancelled - this time without the need for confrontation. Mr Owens will not be amused.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 5, 2015)

they are trying to say it was a hoax now. which doesnt wash. if you call it and dont turn up,its a bottle job.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 5, 2015)

National Action banner seen (in the distance) in Slough today at Berkshire Infidels piss poor effort.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 5, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> National Action banner seen (in the distance) in Slough today at Berkshire Infidels piss poor effort.


Shirley not


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2015)

brief report from a mate: 'Today had seen 4 demos from various far-right groups. the BNP for less than 20, NA didn't turn up and the Infidels got about 25 by the looks of it. Britain First got about 150 in Rotherham.'


----------



## jimmer (Sep 6, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> antifa knew what train they were on.


Is this true? Because everything NA have put out about this event, including before it happened suggested it was going to be a hoax. Not a single one of them has posted anything to suggest they were even attempting to march yesterday. The only person who I've seen tweet anything about them actually being on the streets is an anti-fascist with a reputation for making things up. They're all now saying they were trolling anti-fascists by claiming to show.

Here's the video, it was an interview with Ben Raymond who is one of the founders and leaders of the group:


----------



## Shechemite (Sep 6, 2015)

Incidentally, that interview, apart from coming across as a spoof due to it's sheer weirdness (see the journalists facial expressions) was a very soft interview. It is being considered on stormfront as being a real success, and as part of a strategy to pick interviews that will be easy to do - i.e. not channel 4 but Vice etc. Nice to know the BBC is being consciously selected for interviews by Nazis to promote themselves.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 6, 2015)

jimmer said:


> Is this true? Because everything NA have put out about this event, including before it happened suggested it was going to be a hoax. Not a single one of them has posted anything to suggest they were even attempting to march yesterday. The only person who I've seen tweet anything about them actually being on the streets is an anti-fascist with a reputation for making things up. They're all now saying they were trolling anti-fascists by claiming to show.
> 
> Here's the video, it was an interview with Ben Raymond who is one of the founders and leaders of the group:




He has an odd accent, I can't put my finger on what is so odd about it, it's almost like a native Swedish speaker with an almost but not quite perfect accent.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> He has an odd accent, I can't put my finger on what is so odd about it, it's almost like a native Swedish speaker with an almost but not quite perfect accent.



That's what I was getting at in post #345. My first thought was spook, who are often recruited from public schools. But then a posho leading the far right fits anyway.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 6, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> That's what I was getting at in post #345. My first thought was spook, who are often recruited from public schools. But then a posho leading the far right fits anyway.



Apparently he spent a year in the US, but it isn't Mid-Atlantic sounding to me


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 6, 2015)

jimmer said:


> Is this true? Because everything NA have put out about this event, including before it happened suggested it was going to be a hoax. Not a single one of them has posted anything to suggest they were even attempting to march yesterday.



It's conceivable that they could play boy who cries wolf tiring Antifascists from turning up to no shows leading the way to reducing opposition and them getting a 'victory'.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 6, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> My first thought was spook, who are often recruited from public schools.



Look forward to reading the supporting evidence for this!


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 6, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Look forward to reading the supporting evidence for this!



They'll be cherry picked from Oxbridge, home of state educated oiks?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 6, 2015)

Firstly, 



Citizen66 said:


> ...cherry picked from Oxbridge...



is not the same as 



Citizen66 said:


> ...often recruited from public schools...



Secondly, whilst the Cambridge Ring farrago showed us that the intelligence and security services placed being ‘our kind of people’ above any kind of in-depth scrutiny, certainly in the pre-war period, and to a more limited extent for some years post-war also, surely you accept that recruitment processes have evolved a little more than getting schoolmasters at minor private schools to act as talent spotters? 

We don't know many current or recent MI5 or MI6 officers, but those whose details have come to light do not conform to the Philby-Burgess-Maclean-Blunt mould, or to the manner in which they were recruited.

Consider how Shayler (state comp and Dundee Uni) joined up - he answered an opaque advert in _The Observer_. Machon (Cambridge) was approached, but only after graduating, after a brief career in publishing, and after she applied to take entrance exams into the diplomatic service. David Bolt - UEA. Gareth Williams - state secondary and Bangor. Tomlinson - Cambridge.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 6, 2015)

I think we can both agree that positions in the upper echelons of the establishment are fed from long established and well trodden supply routes. That's not to say that exceptionally bright proles don't also end up there.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 6, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It's conceivable that they could play boy who cries wolf tiring Antifascists from turning up to no shows leading the way to reducing opposition and them getting a 'victory'.



They could do that - but there's only a couple of dozen in National Action itself. This crying wolf business just means that they're eroding support amongst any other groups that might turn up. So the best case scenario for them would be two dozen of them turning up unopposed in Liverpool for a photo op. BFD.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2015)

it's at best a piss poor strategy this not turning up. however, we know that they had liaised with plod:
'Latest word is that after seeking police permission to march and having trains and a police escort laid on for them, National Action still couldn't bring themselves to come back to Liverpool.'
They shit out at widnes.


----------



## jimmer (Sep 7, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> it's at best a piss poor strategy this not turning up. however, we know that they had liaised with plod:
> 'Latest word is that after seeking police permission to march and having trains and a police escort laid on for them, National Action still couldn't bring themselves to come back to Liverpool.'
> They shit out at widnes.


So you don't have any evidence they were actually planning on marching? Then why keep claiming they bottled it?

We know they liaised with the police but this could have been done purely to give the impression they were planning on marching. If they had been intending on marching, formed up outside Liverpool and then bottled it and cancelled the march we would know. 

There would be people complaining about it on social media, there would be mentions on Stormfront. There's no way they have the discipline to endure such a humiliation without people complaining on the internet (see what happened in Lime Street).


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 7, 2015)

I don't see much difference between bottling it and a 'hoax' tbh.


----------



## jimmer (Sep 7, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't see much difference between bottling it and a 'hoax' tbh.


The end result might be the same but there's a pretty big difference. If they've bottled it then it's because of anti-fascist organising and is a sign of their weakness, it should be treated as another fairly significant victory. If it's a hoax then we need to get used to them using that as a tactic and anti-fascists will need to adapt their organising.

If it's the latter pretending the former's happened is really unhelpful.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2015)

jimmer said:


> The end result might be the same but there's a pretty big difference. If they've bottled it then it's because of anti-fascist organising and is a sign of their weakness, it should be treated as another fairly significant victory. If it's a hoax then we need to get used to them using that as a tactic and anti-fascists will need to adapt their organising.
> 
> If it's the latter pretending the former's happened is really unhelpful.


yes. but you've pointed to several things which would help differentiate the hoax from the genuine, which will be useful to observe in the future.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 7, 2015)

jimmer said:


> The end result might be the same but there's a pretty big difference. If they've bottled it then it's because of anti-fascist organising and is a sign of their weakness, it should be treated as another fairly significant victory. If it's a hoax then we need to get used to them using that as a tactic and anti-fascists will need to adapt their organising.
> 
> If it's the latter pretending the former's happened is really unhelpful.



I more meant that even doing 'hoaxes' (this is the second one now) is a sign that they haven't the stomach to go back to Liverpool. Mouthing off and not following through is generally known as bottling it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2015)

plod announced the NA cancellation ergo plod were in the know. else why would they announce the cancellation of a march that hadnt been planned?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> plod announced the NA cancellation ergo plod were in the know. else why would they announce the cancellation of a march that hadnt been planned?


because they like a practical joke as much as the next person


----------



## jimmer (Sep 7, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I more meant that even doing 'hoaxes' (this is the second one now) is a sign that they haven't the stomach to go back to Liverpool. Mouthing off and not following through is generally known as bottling it.


Yeah, that they've been reduced to pretending their going to march and then not showing up shows they don't have the bottle for a repeat of Lime Street. But it also shows they've responded to the setback in a creative way which anti-fascists need to think about. Tbh, I think they'll go back to doing flash mobs until they've got enough strength to do street activities pre-announced in hostile areas. Either that or they'll carry on doing these hoaxes till anti-fascists stop mobilising.



malatesta32 said:


> plod announced the NA cancellation ergo plod were in the know. else why would they announce the cancellation of a march that hadnt been planned?


The police said they'd been informed NA were going to march, then they said NA had informed the march was cancelled. It's entirely plausible and indeed likely that NA were misleading the police when they said they were planning on marching. Local media were saying the mayor of Liverpool was discussing this with them today.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 7, 2015)

I think it was cancelled because one of the 'bad mutha fuckers' couldn't bring his penknife 

National Action fascist caught bragging about "not entirely legal" deadly pocket knife


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 7, 2015)

Yeah so they'll go back to vandalising easily accessible public graveyards. Or sieg-heiling photo ops. Britain First are the ones to watch imho.

The kind of hoax that leads to a couple of hundred anti-fascists gathering then having a march in the sunshine before all going for a drink and feeling good about themselves seems a bit self defeating for the far-right.

There's been a few occasions where far-right groups have done this (called an event and not showed up)- I can think of a couple in Brighton and Bristol. Give Paul Pitt credit - he always turns up, no matter how mindbogglingly stupid that turns out to be.


----------



## Casually Red (Sep 7, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Give Paul Pitt credit - he always turns up, no matter how mindbogglingly stupid that turns out to be.



A sure sign that it's because his handlers tell him to .


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 8, 2015)

his handlers werent with him in southend when he was twatted tho were they? or his mates?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> his handlers werent with him in southend when he was twatted tho were they? or his mates?


his first aiders.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2015)

friedaweed said:


> I think it was cancelled because one of the 'bad mutha fuckers' couldn't bring his penknife
> 
> National Action fascist caught bragging about "not entirely legal" deadly pocket knife



The pocket knife has a lock (a liner lock, for afficionados). that's all that makes it "illegal". As for the gladius mentioned, it's a machete - the sort of thing most boneheads need to own in order to get an erection.

Surprised the paper didn't notice the cat-head ballistic nylon knuckle-duster on his key-ring, though.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The pocket knife has a lock (a liner lock, for afficionados). that's all that makes it "illegal". As for the gladius mentioned, it's a machete - the sort of thing most boneheads need to own in order to get an erection.
> 
> Surprised the paper didn't notice the cat-head ballistic nylon knuckle-duster on his key-ring, though.


I don't think Lock knives are illegal, are they?


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I don't think Lock knives are illegal, are they?



In the uk, to have in possession in public place, yes illegal.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 9, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The pocket knife has a lock (a liner lock, for afficionados). that's all that makes it "illegal". As for the gladius mentioned, it's a machete - the sort of thing most boneheads need to own in order to get an erection.
> 
> Surprised the paper didn't notice the cat-head ballistic nylon knuckle-duster on his key-ring, though.


yeh it does stand out somewhat


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

Chilli.s said:


> In the uk, to have in possession in public place, yes illegal.


Shit. I'm always taking mine to the park when having a bbq and stuff.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Shit. I'm always taking mine to the park when having a bbq and stuff.


What, for whittling your charcoal briquettes?


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> What, for whittling your charcoal briquettes?


Slicing limes for my drinks. I'm not an animal.
It feels a lot safer than having a small kitchen knife in my bag when cycling across town.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

Is a kitchen knife illegal, too?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Is a kitchen knife illegal, too?


depends who catches you with it


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Slicing limes for my drinks. I'm not an animal.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Slicing limes for my drinks. I'm not an animal.
> It feels a lot safer than having a small kitchen knife in my bag when cycling across town.


i hope you carry a small chopping board too.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> depends who catches you with it


The dreaded park ranger.

He is always after my picnic basket.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Shit. I'm always taking mine to the park when having a bbq and stuff.



Yeah, I think it changed in the last few years. Now 3 inch blade non locking is the most allowed, with a reason to have it i.e. camping/bbq.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster shows off his lime slicer:


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

Chilli.s said:


> Yeah, I think it changed in the last few years. Now 3 inch blade non locking is the most allowed, with a reason to have it i.e. camping/bbq.


I shall have to start being a lot more subtle about slicing my limes. Maybe find a sliced lime dealer.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I shall have to start being a lot more subtle about slicing my limes. Maybe find a sliced lime dealer.



Or slice them before you go and pop them in a container.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2015)

No doubt the shopping is done on the way to the park!


----------



## BigTom (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Is a kitchen knife illegal, too?



UK Knife laws: Buying and carrying knives: the law - GOV.UK

folding blade 3 inches or less, or have a good reason for having the knife.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I don't think Lock knives are illegal, are they?



I'm afraid that they are. Any sort of blade lock is illegal, so whether you've got an old-fashioned back-lock knife, an Opinel or a modern liner-locked knife, they're all illegal to carry in public (which coppers are happy to stretch to "carrying in a locked tool case" if they want an easy nick).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh it does stand out somewhat



I suspect that the journos just thought "he can't be all bad, he's got a cat keyring"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2015)

Chilli.s said:


> Yeah, I think it changed in the last few years. Now 3 inch blade non locking is the most allowed, with a reason to have it i.e. camping/bbq.



It's the most that's been allowed since I can recall, way back at the beginning of the 1970s.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

BigTom said:


> UK Knife laws: Buying and carrying knives: the law - GOV.UK
> 
> folding blade 3 inches or less, or have a good reason for having the knife.


Seems a bit wonky that carrying a knife that folds up (and locks open) is worse than carrying a kitchen knife.

I feel like one of those mad americans defending their right to carry an assault rifle.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 9, 2015)

It's not worse - it's that you're allowed to carry a penknife without having to justify it all. So I can trim my hedge with a bill-hook but not wander into town with it.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> It's not worse - it's that you're allowed to carry a penknife without having to justify it all. So I can trim my hedge with a bill-hook but not wander into town with it.


I'd get in more trouble for having a 4 inch lock knife than I would a 4 inch kitchen knife on me, if I was on the way to have food on the park, though, right?


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 10, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I'd get in more trouble for having a 4 inch lock knife than I would a 4 inch kitchen knife on me, if I was on the way to have food on the park, though, right?



Same amount of trouble - they're both bladed weapons with blades over the legal maximum. 
I carry a Spyderco Grasshopper for pesky lime-slicing and sausage-chopping tasks.




It's under the 3-inch maximum, it's designed to be easy to grip and control when slicing/whittling/whatever, and it keeps an edge for months of heavy use.


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## joustmaster (Sep 10, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Same amount of trouble - they're both bladed weapons with blades over the legal maximum.
> I carry a Spyderco Grasshopper for pesky lime-slicing and sausage-chopping tasks.
> 
> 
> ...


But they're more likely to accept the 'good reason' for having a 4in kitchen knife at a bbq,  rather than a 4in lock knife. 

Because it's more scary.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 10, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Shit. I'm always taking mine to the park when having a bbq and stuff.


i think its a matter of context. when going camping I take me lock knife and there would be no legal issue as it is seen as a useful implement. so if you're gonna take a 'chiv' to a demo, wear waterproofs and a rucksack. sorted!!!


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2015)

National Action member Zach Davies jailed for 14 years on licence for life:
'Lee Rigby revenge' attacker jailed for life


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2015)

wrong bloke


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## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> before NA try and deny he was a member, here he is hitler saluting at the NA mandela stunt (middle)
> (101) National Action is now 100% the most based... - Benjamin Raymond | Awesome Screenshot
> there are more clips and photos.


oops


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## jimmer (Sep 11, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> before NA try and deny he was a member, here he is hitler saluting at the NA mandela stunt (middle)



That's Ben Raymond - Exposed: Rise of Hitler-loving National Action group who want to 'ethnically cleanse' the UK


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## The39thStep (Sep 11, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Same amount of trouble - they're both bladed weapons with blades over the legal maximum.
> I carry a Spyderco Grasshopper for pesky lime-slicing and sausage-chopping tasks.
> 
> 
> ...



eat a lot of sausage?


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 11, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> eat a lot of sausage?



Mostly _kabanosi_. It thanks you for slicing it.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2015)

yeah but your arse doesnt thank you for eating it. one of the more grittier smoked meats.


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## SpineyNorman (Sep 13, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The pocket knife has a lock (a liner lock, for afficionados). that's all that makes it "illegal". As for the gladius mentioned, it's a machete - the sort of thing most boneheads need to own in order to get an erection.
> 
> Surprised the paper didn't notice the cat-head ballistic nylon knuckle-duster on his key-ring, though.



I've got an amusing story about those. About 15 years ago me and my brother had to give evidence against a pair of muggers (something I'd usually be dodgy about but these were scum, robbing kids). We'd figured out that we'd probably want to go to the pub after so got my dad to take us to court. 

Now my dad has been an engineer all his life and _always _carries a pocket knife. It had never occurred to him that he shouldn't take it to court. There was some unpleasantness when he went through the metal detector which led to the detective who was looking after us having to 'have a word' with court security to make sure it didn't go any further


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm afraid that they are. Any sort of blade lock is illegal, so whether you've got an old-fashioned back-lock knife, an Opinel or a modern liner-locked knife, they're all illegal to carry in public (which coppers are happy to stretch to "carrying in a locked tool case" if they want an easy nick).



My mate got taken to court for carrying an Opinel. The judge dismissed the case though.

On leaving the courtroom my mate says to the prosecution lawyer, that was a bit of a result eh? I didn't think I had an 'ope in 'ell...


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 14, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> My mate got taken to court for carrying an Opinel. The judge dismissed the case though.
> 
> On leaving the courtroom my mate says to the prosecution lawyer, that was a bit of a result eh? I didn't think I had an 'ope in 'ell...



You did it, you made me graugh - that's a groan and a laugh at the same time!


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## Citizen66 (Sep 14, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> My mate got taken to court for carrying an Opinel. The judge dismissed the case though.
> 
> On leaving the courtroom my mate says to the prosecution lawyer, that was a bit of a result eh? I didn't think I had an 'ope in 'ell...



Boom tish!


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## gawkrodger (Jan 24, 2016)

i see the NA eejits were out and about again today in Newcastle


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## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2016)

about 15 NA Tweenies turned up with a hitler banner - to illustrate their clear grasp on contemporary UK politics - had a go at a busker which caused much local anger. NA claimed they have smashed Newcastle although Newcastle has yet to notice. NE EDL threaten NA for coming on their manor. NA claim victory.


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## twentythreedom (Jan 30, 2016)

Kicking off in Dover today

Live updates as violence erupts at Dover anti-fascist protest


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## belboid (Jan 30, 2016)

And before they even got there - Fascist and anti-fascist groups clash at service station en route to Dover demos


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## teqniq (Jan 30, 2016)

I bunged some tweets with pix up on this thread

Far-right protest: Give over, get your arse to Dover - 30th January 2016


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## twentythreedom (Jan 30, 2016)

Sorry, didn't see that thread


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## jimmer (Feb 26, 2016)

Various far-right groups are saying they'll be in Liverpool tomorrow -

Far-right to attempt surprise Liverpool return
Far-right group says it will hold Liverpool rally on Saturday

Anti-fascist groups are mobilising -


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## malatesta32 (Mar 7, 2016)

rather amusing fallout between North West Infibellends/National Action Men and Polish Hooligans' cos the Poles didn't like them doing nazi salutes! 
The Insider’s blog: NWI fall out with everyone


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## andrewc (Mar 12, 2016)

£5m caravan drugs plot gang member had links to North West Infidels

Chap who was previously jailed for attacking people on their way to an anti fascist gig in Bold St gets 5 years for drug trafficking.


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## tony.c (Dec 6, 2017)

Shane Calvert and other NWI get jailed, again.
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/right-wing-activists-jailed-over-13951561


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