# HP webOS tablets, HP Touchpad



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2011)

Engadget appears to have the scoop on the new HP tablet running Palms webOS:









> Oh, hello. A trusted tipster just sent in these internal renders of HP / Palm's "Topaz" webOS tablet, which is one of two tablets currently being developed in Sunnyvale. That's right, two tablets: the 9-inch Topaz and a 7-inch model codnamed Opal -- a lineup that fits nicely into Palm's "Something big, Something small, Something beyond" tagline for its upcoming February 9th event. Looking at the render, we're seeing the no-button design we'd previously heard about (we're assuming the gesture area rotates with the display), a front-facing camera, a micro USB port on the bottom, and what appears to be a Vizio Tablet-style three speaker arrangement for stereo audio in both landscape and portrait modes -- that's two speakers along the left side and a third on the right. (That's just a guess, though.) We'd also note the back appears to be a glossy material, which might rule out a giant Touchstone for charging -- Touchstone backs have heretofore been soft-touch, but anything can change, we suppose.
> 
> We're told that units will start to arrive at Palm HQ in June as production ramps up for launch later this year -- a timeline backed up by an internal marketing slide we received that lists WiFi-only, AT&T 3G, and Verizon LTE versions of the Opal arriving in September 2011, and on AT&T LTE in July 2012. The slide also indicates the Opal will have a particular e-reading focus, which makes sense for a 7-inch device, and there's a mention of "premium audio," which nicely reinforces our speaker hypothesis. Unfortunately, we don't have any word on specs or pricing yet, but these things had better be packing some serious heat for cheap if Palm is really planning to wait until September to launch them -- they'll be going head-to-head with the Xoom, the PlayBook, and presumably the iPad 2. We're still digging for more, so keep an eye out -- things are going to get crazy leading up to February 9th.



2011 is certainly shaping up to be an interesting year tablet wise with the proliferation of Android devices, some nice new features and power in the new iPads and hopefully a decent webOS tablet too!


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## Sunray (Jan 19, 2011)

Looking very nice.  I like the idea of a 7" model but my issue is going to be with the price of one of these over a laptop.

Might be a bit late, Android 3.0 should be well out by then as will the iPad 2.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2011)

TBH I'm not sold on the idea of a 7inch tablet, like the iPad screen size.

Heh HP seem a little miffed by the bloggers leaking:






Wonder what it could be? New Palm Pre's perhaps?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 19, 2011)

That's the opposite of miffed, that's playing up to their leaks.


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## editor (Jan 19, 2011)

I predict that the Palm/HP tablet will be an incredibly well engineered piece of kit running the best tablet OS seen to date. I also predict that it won't do very well on account of the absence of apps.

Incidentally, HP have just taken over Apple as the most reliable hardware according to a new survey:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/01/18/hp.takes.rare.lead.over.apple.in.rescuecom.ranks/


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## Sunray (Jan 19, 2011)

editor said:


> I predict that the Palm/HP tablet will be an incredibly well engineered piece of kit running the best tablet OS seen to date. I also predict that it won't do very well on account of the absence of apps.
> 
> Incidentally, HP have just taken over Apple as the most reliable hardware according to a new survey:
> 
> http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/01/18/hp.takes.rare.lead.over.apple.in.rescuecom.ranks/


 
Does this include the old Compaq division of hardware as that has its roots in IBM engineering talent and until HP bought them made some of the most reliable kit out there.  Compaq bought Tandem which is a super reliable mainframe and that is now owned by HP. Tandems have the distinction of a computer system that never crashes, even if one of the CPU's caught fire, it would still carry on working. Do they come into those stat's?


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## editor (Jan 19, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Does this include the old Compaq division of hardware as that has its roots in IBM engineering talent and until HP bought them made some of the most reliable kit out there.  Compaq bought Tandem which is a super reliable mainframe and that is now owned by HP. Tandems have the distinction of a computer system that never crashes, even if one of the CPU's caught fire, it would still carry on working. Do they come into those stat's?


The figures come from a huge company who repair computers for both consumers and businesses.



> Rescuecom is an American computer repair and support company based out of Syracuse, New York. Rescuecom offers both businesses and home users technical support around the globe, employing a vast network of computer technicians, as well as an online computer support website.
> 
> ...Since 1997 Rescuecom has grown exponentially into a major player in the tech support market. They have been recognized as a Fast Growth Company[12] by Computer Reseller News magazine in 2008, ranked #90.
> Rescuecom is recognized as a Franchise 500[13] company by Entrepreneur Magazine in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006,2007, and 2008. In 2007, they were ranked at #213.



http://www.rescuecom.com/


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That's the opposite of miffed, that's playing up to their leaks.


 
You think? It came across as a little desperate to me, if they were confident in their product line they'd just say nothing and wow people on the day...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2011)

editor said:


> I predict that the Palm/HP tablet will be an incredibly well engineered piece of kit running the best tablet OS seen to date. I also predict that it won't do very well on account of the absence of apps.
> 
> Incidentally, HP have just taken over Apple as the most reliable hardware according to a new survey:
> 
> http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/01/18/hp.takes.rare.lead.over.apple.in.rescuecom.ranks/



I fear you may be right about the lack of apps, will developers want to risk making apps for a third OS that isn't as supported as iOS or Android?


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## editor (Jan 19, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You think? It came across as a little desperate to me, if they were confident in their product line they'd just say nothing and wow people on the day...


All publicity is good publicity when it comes to new product pre-launch hype.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2011)

More info has slipped out, wonder if HP will able to do another 'We got more trust us, the surprise aint blown yet!' poster now? 



> Our HP / Palm webOS tablets exclusive prompted a tipster (who wishes to remain anonymous) to send us a consumer survey conducted very recently by GfK Custom Research North America, a company HP has used before (Google it) to gain insight into consumer interests. While the survey doesn't mention Palm or HP by name, it's rife with trademarked terms like "Synergy" used in the descriptions of the "different things this new tablet computer can do." In other words, the features described already exist in the tablet(s) and the survey is attempting to gauge interest, presumably in an attempt to fine tune the promotional materials and marketing approach. One such feature mentioned is "Touchstone," where the survey asks the respondent how interested they are in a programmable wireless charging dock that transforms the tablet into an alarm clock, digital photo frame, and GPS unit -- sounds like webOS 2.0 Exhibition to us. This is corroborated by a trusted source who confirmed to us that inductive charging will, in fact, be a feature of the HP / Palm tablets.
> 
> The survey also mentions "Tap-to-Share." A feature that lets users easily transfer a website, document, or song from the phone to the tablet (or vice versa) simply by tapping the two devices together -- something previously hinted at in the last bullet on this slide which describes an ability to seamlessly move app and content experiences from phone or PC to slate. We're also told that HP will be providing a huge amount of cloud storage for webOS devices, and that apps, app states, and saved documents may even be able to run from the cloud -- if it's true, you'll be able to seamlessly switch from device to device with no interruption, just like our continuous client proposal. The ultimate goal, we're told, is to make the "laptop the new desktop" and for consumers to leave them sitting at home while they take tablets on the go.
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 8, 2011)

Event is tomorrow, here's a clip from last week hinting at...something..which looks a little fat if you ask me...

http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/palm-think-beyond-teaser-for-next-weeks-event-shows-off-glimp/


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 8, 2011)

Sorry, is it just me or are they taking the piss? One seven-second video showing cock all, and one nine-second video showing less than cock all?


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## Crispy (Feb 8, 2011)

The official unveiling is tomorrow morning, those are just teases.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 8, 2011)

I don't think they've quite got the idea.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2011)

It better be the best fucking thing on the planet...


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## editor (Feb 9, 2011)

It's going to have the best OS on the planet and the most elegant interface of all by miles... but it'll be a huge flop because there's no decent apps.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2011)

It's possible the hardware won't be much too, that teaser showed something bulky and plastic looking. The Palm Pre had a great OS but the built quality was terrible.


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## Crispy (Feb 9, 2011)

Thar she blows
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/09/the-hp-touchpad/
Identical size and weight as the iPad. faster, with camera
UI looks very nice - all the best bits of iOS, plus superior notifications and multitasking interface. Built in google docs support, flash in the browser. This is a strong strong device. Now, let's see how well they can do and getting apps out for it.


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## editor (Feb 9, 2011)

The UI absolutely destroys the iPads, but the immense gulf in apps is going to be a massive obstacle for this tablet, pretty though it is. 

I don't think the folks at Apple are going to be losing sleep over this, even if it is technically superior in several areas.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2011)

If they can't get apps they're fucked, Ed is right Apple won't be losing any sleep over this...


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 9, 2011)

Engadget are ruining their pants about it of course, but that's what they *do*.

The hardware is pretty much an iPad, with a few spec improvements and details that are better but no deal-breakers. I'm guessing that the OS integrates well with the hardware too, given that HP and Palm are collaborating directly on that and they're both decent at what they do - it won't be just "hey let's shoehorn an OS into a tablet and sell it". It may well be theoretically better than iOS on the iPad. But unfortunately, as we know and as everyone's saying, slightly better OSes and hardware don't cut it vs market share and app availability.

Also, it's coming "this summer" (i.e. this year maybe) at a price to be confirmed. At least it seems real to an extent this time.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2011)

Oh yeah I agree with Engadget on one thing: RIP, Palm: 1992 - 2011...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2011)

So er what does webOS coming to PCs mean? A new desktop/laptop operating system or just a fancy way of saying 'yeah we're gonna have an app to manage your devices'?

Also, what's the betting on the price for their tablet? Can they afford to equal or better the iPad?

E2A:

Wow this is bloody fast!


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## sumimasen (Feb 9, 2011)

Fuck Palm, their Pre put me through no end of inconveniences. Their lack of apps, and support for webos apps, put me right off. Apple and Android rule the roost, there is no commercial and profitable space for webos.


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## editor (Feb 9, 2011)

The new Pre looks a lot, lot better than the v1 - especially the keyboard -  but the problem is still the same for UK users - there's fuck all apps.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2011)

editor said:


> The new Pre looks a lot, lot better than the v1 - especially the keyboard -  but the problem is still the same for UK users - there's fuck all apps.


 
Yep. Although if it has the core set of apps I use regularly I *could* be tempted...


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## stupid dogbot (Feb 10, 2011)

HP Tablet looks nice enough, but nothing to persuade me away from awaiting the iPad2.


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## Sunray (Feb 10, 2011)

I've been perusing the specification of these new devices and it was all going well until I saw the weight!

I think the iPad is too heavy and these are 50% heavier at 780g. 

Not only do these devices cost way too much for functionally less, but they are too early for technology to support them.   It reminds me of the Newton.  It was quite ground breaking at the time but the technology it used just wasn't developed enough to support what it was trying to do.

This is an extreme case and the time between when the Newton was created and technology to support it was available was big, this isn't the case now but I do feel that people are building stuff that in the great scheme of things people don't actually want.  This may have implications when the technology does mature.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2011)

Damn shame about the storage and apps, the Pre3 looks very nice indeed...


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## elbows (Feb 10, 2011)

They probably need aggressive pricing in order for WebOS devices to stand a chance, but I doubt that will be easy. I would strongly consider selling it at a loss if I were them & they seriously want this platform to be a long-term winner.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm really struggling to giver a shit about it, WebOS may be great but nobody gives a fuck anymore. They had their chance with the Pre and blew it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> They probably need aggressive pricing in order for WebOS devices to stand a chance, but I doubt that will be easy. I would strongly consider selling it at a loss if I were them & they seriously want this platform to be a long-term winner.


 
Agreed, the way I see it they have two options (and this assumes they're going to sink a fat wad of cash into the advertising budget), they need to provide an attraction package for app makers - maybe a huge discount on their take for early adopters or paying the key app makers to make them - then make money back on app sales or sell at a loss and hope the market share grab along with app sales break them even in this generation so they can make a profit in the next...


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## Sunray (Feb 13, 2011)

No idea of price on any of this kit.

I think this sort of stuff has a place in the market but not at and above the cost of restriction free, decent laptops.  

100-200 quid make them quite attractive.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 18, 2011)

Having the same feeling I had with the Pre, would have loved to get one but couldn't see it getting anywhere, that I'm getting with HPs new offering...anyway, nice little hands on video here, like the touch to share feature, seems to work fairly smoothly.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

HP seem remarkably relaxed about Research in Motion’s PlayBook tablet OS looking like a total rip of the webOS TouchPad.

Jon Oakes, director of product marketing, TouchPad commented:



> From what we’ve seen in the market, there are some uncanny similarities. It’s a fast innovation cycle and a fast imitation cycle in this market, so we just know that we have the creative engine here to continue to build on what we have, and we’ll keep innovating, we’ll keep honing and those guys hopefully will continue to see the value in it and keep following us by about a year.



http://www.precentral.net/rim-taking-page-out-webos-playbook-tablet-interface


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2011)

*HP rolling out webOS 3.0 beta to Early Access developers today*

Looks like things are moving forward...



> Interested in developing for HP's upcoming TouchPad? Sure you are -- but to play ball, you're going to need access to webOS version 3.0, which the company has announced will be getting delivered as part of the festivities at its webOS Connect event in London today. Of course, you can't just wander in off the street and get access to it: you'll need to be signed up for the Early Access program, which has been dropping early webOS SDK builds on eager devs for some time.
> 
> Naturally, we'd prefer a real, actual, physical TouchPad to the mere idea of a TouchPad in emulation coming from the soft glow of our laptop displays... but we'll take what we can get while we wait for the June launch.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 2, 2011)

A new video of the HP Touchpad in action:


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## editor (Jun 2, 2011)

That multi-tasking OS is *fantastic*. Miles ahead of the competition.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 2, 2011)

They still have one of the best Facebook/contact integrations too...shame Palm is fucked and hasn't much hope of a future really...


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## Sunray (Jun 4, 2011)

I can't see anyone developing for it and like the old home computers of yesteryear, the Spectrum was popular not because it was better but because everyone owned one so all the best games came out for it.  The IBM PC succeeded for the same reason but for business apps.  History is filled with great hardware that got binned for lack of great software.

This is now true of the iPad and iPad 2.   Unless your happy with the default OS apps on the HP and perhaps a few on their market, its doomed.  They aren't phones.

There isn't a great deal in the price, the iPad 2 isn't some crappy second best, why go for the HP?


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## editor (Jun 30, 2011)

Crunchgear has just reviewed Touchpad and it's pretty positive overall, but there's a fair few caveats knocking about.

Not surprisingly, the reviewer raves about the OS:


> WebOS is the real star of this show. The OS offers true multi-tasking and uses a system of “cards” and “stacks” to display active applications. The OS also uses a system called Synergy to sync with services in the cloud and to save logins and accounts that can be moved from one device to another.
> 
> When you activate an application, it moves onto a smaller “card” and then expands into fullscreen when completely loaded. Swiping up from the bottom of the screen (or pressing the home button) brings all of the cards back up and you can tap and hold a card to move to to another stack. For example, you can stack similar tasks together (“Emails to send today,” “Web pages to read,” “Images of cats to coo at”). You can also flick apps up and away, shutting them down or closing their windows.
> 
> ...



I fear the weboS is going to the be the Betamax of the mobile world: better than anything else out there but doomed to failure.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/06/29/review-the-hp-palm-touchpad/


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 30, 2011)

Apparently Samsung may be licensing it for their tablets.


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## editor (Jun 30, 2011)

Here's another positive-ish review from BGR, and once again they're putting the webOS as the star of the show, describing it as better than anyone else:



> WebOS was the next evolutionary step of the smartphone OS in terms of the user interface. Instead of putting apps front and center like Apple’s iOS platform did, it painted a living, breathing picture right before your eyes. “Apps,” in their general sense, were no longer the star of the show. Instead, webOS put the task manager front and center — and this was a very smart move. It lets the user concern himself or herself only with apps that are being used actively, and all else can be disregarded.
> 
> So right from the onset, webOS is ahead of the pack. Mix in gorgeous graphics and powerful apps, and you’re cooking with gas. WebOS doesn’t have the largest selection of applications of course, but it definitely has some high-quality apps that are a joy to use. The HP-built Facebook app, in fact, is the best interpretation of Facebook I have seen on any mobile device.



http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/29/hp-touchpad-review/


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## sumimasen (Jun 30, 2011)

The superlatives for the software is all really a waste of time though isn't it, the lack of apps completely overshadows all arguments here. 

I'm getting deja vu here. Before the Pre's release,  I fell for all the fawning over webos; the videoclips, the reviews, the messageboards. Once I bought it I enjoyed the software for a couple of weeks, and then it dawned on me that it meant nothing without apps. The Pre turned out to be fundamentally a glorified dumbphone, not to mention the subsequent software and hardware glitches. In all, a disastrous experience. 

Lesson learnt, a great webos with no apps is like meeting a beautiful woman who then turns out to have no nipples.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 30, 2011)

editor said:


> Here's another positive-ish review from BGR, and once again they're putting the webOS as the star of the show, describing it as better than anyone else:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/29/hp-touchpad-review/


 
Which is a shame because it'll be lucky if it gets near 5% of market share...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 30, 2011)

sumimasen said:


> The superlatives for the software is all really a waste of time though isn't it, the lack of apps completely overshadows all arguments here.
> 
> I'm getting deja vu here. Before the Pre's release,  I fell for all the fawning over webos; the videoclips, the reviews, the messageboards. Once I bought it I enjoyed the software for a couple of weeks, and then it dawned on me that it meant nothing without apps. The Pre turned out to be fundamentally a glorified dumbphone, not to mention the subsequent software and hardware glitches. In all, a disastrous experience.
> 
> Lesson learnt, a great webos with no apps is like meeting a beautiful woman who then turns out to have no nipples.


 
Indeed, apps is king.


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## London_Calling (Jun 30, 2011)

Any research on how many additional apps the average female user downloads, or how broad the range of apps the 'too busy, non-geek' male bothers with? 

Fwiw, most women I know want access to Facebook, email and text.


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## electroplated (Aug 17, 2011)

They're calling it the Ouchpad in the US apparently!

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/08/17/hp_touchpads_best_buy/


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## editor (Aug 17, 2011)

It's a great tablet. It's got the best OS.
But it looks like a failwagon to me.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 17, 2011)

Wow less than 27 thousand sold! Jesus...


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2011)

Looks like it's all over...



> Just 16 months after announcing the acquisition of Palm, HP has said today that it will “discontinue operations for webOS devices.” What this means for existing stock of the slow-selling TouchPad and the brand new Pre 3 is unclear, but the company does say that it will “continue to explore options to optimize the value of webOS software going forward” — not exactly rosy language for webOS’ future as a consumer platform. In fact, it seems like a strong possibility that HP is done with webOS altogether — it’d be an odd play to keep it relegated to printers and the enterprise side of the business if it’s not going to be involved on the device side. Licensing to third parties remains a possibility, but we haven’t heard anything on that front.


 
*HP kills TouchPad and webOS phones, looks to unload PC business*


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## editor (Aug 18, 2011)

That certainly explains the supremely low key UK launch of the Pre 3.


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 18, 2011)

Offloading their entire PC business is a huge move too, HP sell more PCs than anyone else in the world AFAIK.

Sad to see WebOS go but it was a victim of Palm's botched launch and misplaced arrogance.
I can't see it getting much attention as an OS for printers etc, who's going to develop apps for that?


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## editor (Aug 18, 2011)

It's a really shame. It was a far better UI than iOS and Android, but market forces mean that it's probably gone for good.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2011)

Wouldn't surprise me if we here of it being sold to some patent hungry corporation...





Lazy Llama said:


> Offloading their entire PC business is a huge move too, HP sell more PCs than anyone else in the world AFAIK.
> 
> Sad to see WebOS go but it was a victim of Palm's botched launch and misplaced arrogance.
> I can't see it getting much attention as an OS for printers etc, who's going to develop apps for that?



What are HP going to sell now?


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 18, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What are HP going to sell now?


Servers, software and services.


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## editor (Aug 18, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wouldn't surprise me if we here of it being sold to some patent hungry corporation...


Palm owned insane amounts of patents and some of them - it seemed - were enough to make Apple back off sharply when they started making noises about the pinch to zoom technology.


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## Sunray (Aug 19, 2011)

I wonder if there will be the opportunity for picking up a tablet for cheap.


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## ovaltina (Aug 19, 2011)

Maybe one of the remaining big players will buy the software and use it to improve their own? Blackberry could see it as a last roll of the dice, or android to bring in the slick factor. Microsoft might even want it if it bumps its product into the top league.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Maybe one of the remaining big players will buy the software and use it to improve their own? Blackberry could see it as a last roll of the dice, or android to bring in the slick factor. Microsoft might even want it if it bumps its product into the top league.



RIM should really be thinking like that but don't think they are tbh...they seem intent of going the way of Palm.


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## Crispy (Aug 19, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Offloading their entire PC business is a huge move too, HP sell more PCs than anyone else in the world AFAIK.



Just not a profitable business these days. Now that you can get more than enough computing power for home use in a pocket phone, or a £300 laptop, why try and compete in hardware? (unless you want to take Apple/Sony on at the high end)

_But_ all that hardware is being used more and more to access services online and run custom apps. Software and services are where the profit is.


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## elbows (Aug 19, 2011)

Theyr hardware business was still quite profitable, to the tune of a few billion a year, but the margins were not as good as the rest of the business, and so dragged down the overall margins. Unfortunately the article I got the numbers from last night has gone behind a paywall so Im going by memory here.


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## grit (Aug 19, 2011)

WebOS is now dead http://allthingsd.com/20110818/breaking-hp-makes-big-shift-on-webos-exiting-hardware-business/

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/HP-Confirms-Discussions-with-bw-2577764196.html?x=0&.v=1

Not really a surprise


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## Crispy (Aug 19, 2011)

grit said:


> WebOS is now dead http://allthingsd.com/20110818/breaking-hp-makes-big-shift-on-webos-exiting-hardware-business/
> Not really a surprise


Nope


Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like it's all over...
> 
> *HP kills TouchPad and webOS phones, looks to unload PC business*


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## grit (Aug 19, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Nope



They are looking for a "partner" which they aint going to find, for all intents and purposes this is the nail in the coffin.


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## lobster (Aug 19, 2011)

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/77901


> After paying almost Two Billion Dollars for Palm and its WebOS, HP announced that it is exiting the mobile phone and tablet business yesterday.  After dumping who knows how many more millions of dollars in developing and marketing their still new WebOs tablet. What a colossal waste of time, money and resources.
> But there is still something that HP could do to salvage some self-respect, value and good karma from this debacle. They could open source WebOS.  There might be some hardware makers who would love to have it. Maybe current Android hand set manufacturers worried about Google's buy of Motorola for instance.



I think open sourcing WebOS would be a great idea .


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 19, 2011)

Bit late really?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2011)

What i don't understand is how the hell they didn't figure the devices wouldn't sell loads, don't these corporations do focus groups/market research!?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2011)

This is starting to look like a car crash...



> Hewlett-Packard engineers did dare pull unthinkable: They hacked iPad to install webOS only to find out Apple’s hardware runs their mobile operating system more than twice as fast compared to their own TouchPad hardware, a source _“close to the subject”_ told _The Next Web._ The finding had devastating effects on the team’s moral:
> 
> _*The hardware reportedly stopped the team from innovating beyond certain points because it was slow and imposed constraints, which was highlighted when webOS was loaded on to Apple’s iPad device and found to run the platform significantly faster than the device for which it was originally developed.*
> _​
> ...


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## elbows (Aug 19, 2011)

That article sucks, I read it earlier and they clearly don't know much about the subject.

webOS uses web tech, but that doesn't mean it runs in a browser. Its based on linux, its not going to run inside Safari.

Now its perfectly possible that they may have taken the UI layer of webOS, and some apps, and made some changes that enabled them to run within a browser. But that in itself would be an interesting development worthy of some attention, not to be misunderstood and badly referenced in a shoddy article.


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## grit (Aug 19, 2011)

elbows said:


> That article sucks, I read it earlier and they clearly don't know much about the subject.
> 
> webOS uses web tech, but that doesn't mean it runs in a browser. Its based on linux, its not going to run inside Safari.
> 
> Now its perfectly possible that they may have taken the UI layer of webOS, and some apps, and made some changes that enabled them to run within a browser. But that in itself would be an interesting development worthy of some attention, not to be misunderstood and badly referenced in a shoddy article.



It could be easily modified to run inside safari ffs. Its html and javascript the way its implemented is essentially inside a webkit wrapper. That wrapper just has a hook to the system api calls. Phonegap uses this technique to allow them to write cross platform applications across all mobile devices, its nothing new.


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## elbows (Aug 19, 2011)

I know what others do with web technologies and several different ways this stuff can be used to offer cross-platform stuff. I like this sort of thing. I would be interested in webOS if it survived by going down this route, rather than being tied to specific devices. It would be news, and would represent something a bit different to what webOS is today, worthy of being discussed in a context broader than that article which mostly seemed interested in how fast it was compared to HPs under performing hardware.

I don't think I could quite think of it as an OS if used in this context, and I would be more excited about the prospect if there were a huge number of webOS apps out there. But given that I've generally been disappointed with the user interfaces that apps on the web have offered so far, and how much of an arse Apple made of things like MobileMe's features and web front end in the past, I'm always looking for improvements in this space. It may be a bit late, as there are some signs that Apple and Google are rapidly getting their shit together in terms of 'the cloud', and there is merit in the sort of cloud that is almost invisible to people, that just works through the apps they use seamlessly. But personally I'm still intrigued by the prospect of having a web-based interface to my stuff, that I could interact with in a non-frustrating way from pretty much any device with a modern web browser. However if I was a corporation I don't know as I would take much risk exploring this stuff, as its far from clear that there is a real problem that demands this sort of solution.


----------



## flutterbye (Aug 20, 2011)

Can see it being canned completely it wont sell due to lack of apps and the developer base not bothering due to lack of sales  unless they can build in android or ios or windows integration its a dead duck. Its savibg grace may be the ability to run real linux apps, if that happens then Id buy it probably.


----------



## cliche guevara (Aug 20, 2011)

The touchpad is now being sold for $100. That's insane. You can flash Android to it


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2011)

Get one. At that price, you're getting a fine web browsing, email reading, movie playing bit of kit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2011)

Ain't that the truth!


----------



## Sunray (Aug 20, 2011)

I'd get one for very cheap.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2011)

I'd seriously consider it for a 100 quid.


----------



## newbie (Aug 20, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Just not a profitable business these days. Now that you can get more than enough computing power for home use in a pocket phone, or a £300 laptop, why try and compete in hardware? (unless you want to take Apple/Sony on at the high end)


Sony? I've never seen a Sony workstation.  In the past few years all the high spec workstations I've met have been HP or Apple and the vast majority of ordinary desk PCs have been HP/Compaq.  Dell comes in a very poor second, and there's no real third.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2011)

Not workstations, no. High-end 'stylish' laptops and consumer desktops, yes.


----------



## newbie (Aug 20, 2011)

Sony laptops for sure but I've never seen a desktop.  No matter, I was just surprised.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2011)

They used to do some nice looking albeit slightly underpowered desktops...


----------



## newbie (Aug 20, 2011)

Fair enough.  I suppose I think of HP as the only company competing with Apple on hardware, with reasonably serious offerings across the spectrum.  Apple's more powerful overall but both have strengths and weaknesses, eg there are far fewer Macs on corporate desks than HP. Maybe Sony is one of the few who could, if they chose, meet Apple head on in all the different sectors


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2011)

A news article on the crazy low liquidation price of the TouchPad:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...-now-for-100/2011/08/20/gIQANYASRJ_story.html


----------



## Teepee (Aug 20, 2011)

anyone got a link to somewhere to get one of these at the knocked-down price?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2011)

newbie said:


> Fair enough.  I suppose I think of HP as the only company competing with Apple on hardware, with reasonably serious offerings across the spectrum.  Apple's more powerful overall but both have strengths and weaknesses, eg there are far fewer Macs on corporate desks than HP. Maybe Sony is one of the few who could, if they chose, meet Apple head on in all the different sectors



Sony have done a fairly good job on trying to be the windows version of Apple in terms of design and high prices.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2011)

Teepee said:


> anyone got a link to somewhere to get one of these at the knocked-down price?



Looks like it's US only at the mo, just checked out Amazon UK and the Touchpad is still full price...


----------



## Teepee (Aug 20, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sony have done a fairly good job on trying to be the windows version of Apple in terms of design and high prices.



the difference being that your average vaio comes with several gig of crapware in the startup directory and therefore always run pretty badly after a few weeks


----------



## grit (Aug 20, 2011)

Teepee said:


> the difference being that your average vaio comes with several gig of crapware in the startup directory and therefore always run pretty badly after a few weeks



The build quality of the new vaio laptops is also shit


----------



## cliche guevara (Aug 20, 2011)

If I didn't already have a tablet I would be importing a touchpad for sure.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 20, 2011)

I'm gonna have a Sauron like eye on amazon uk.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2011)

grit said:


> The build quality of the new vaio laptops is also shit



I've never known them to be that great tbh, every one I've known to own them have complained about them fucking up quicker than others.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I'm gonna have a Sauron like eye on amazon uk.



Lol me too.


----------



## Teepee (Aug 20, 2011)

The US ones seem to have gone back up in price now


----------



## Sunray (Aug 21, 2011)

Amazon have just knocked of 125 quid.  275 for one now.

Thats just a bit expensive for something that will not be supported.  150 and I would get one.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 21, 2011)

Only 4 left now, people are mental. You can get an iPad 2 for 399, its lighter smaller and has oodles of apps that run on it.


----------



## magneze (Aug 21, 2011)

Apparently you can stick Android on it. Not interested until it's £150 or lower though.


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2011)

Given the potential price plummet, I thought I better have a look at webOS to see if it was any good. Using the emulator that comes with the SDK. I see a nice clean user interface with a couple of neat features. But it feels flawed in some senses, obviously I would need proper hardware to test performance but I get a sense that webOS is not really as wonderful as some posts here have suggested, even if loads of apps were available for it.


----------



## grit (Aug 21, 2011)

elbows said:


> Given the potential price plummet, I thought I better have a look at webOS to see if it was any good. Using the emulator that comes with the SDK. I see a nice clean user interface with a couple of neat features. But it feels flawed in some senses, obviously I would need proper hardware to test performance but I get a sense that webOS is not really as wonderful as some posts here have suggested, even if loads of apps were available for it.



Emulation for mobile OS are always pretty shit, android included. Its not a fair measure tbh.


----------



## Radar (Aug 22, 2011)

Hitler isn't happy, The inevitable downfall video.


----------



## Radar (Aug 22, 2011)

The yanks will be cleaning up.. Best buy, 16GB for $99.99 or 32GB for $149.99.. Amazon US too


----------



## elbows (Aug 22, 2011)

grit said:


> Emulation for mobile OS are always pretty shit, android included. Its not a fair measure tbh.



Not a fair measure of performance, but a bloody good guide to features.


----------



## magneze (Aug 22, 2011)

Anyone seen any heavy uk discounting yet? Amazon still have a paltry discount.


----------



## mack (Aug 22, 2011)

What would be the chances of Amazon refunding the price difference If you ordered one today and the price dropped tomorrow?

If they refuse you could just send it back right?

Really fancy getting one of these for the "coffee table"! 

Also some bods are working on porting Android on to it so you'll have access to all the apps instead of web os limited offerings.


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 22, 2011)

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/hp-touchpad-16gb-32gb-89-115-from-tonight-dixons/1000474


----------



## Crispy (Aug 22, 2011)

So keep an eye on these pages:

http://www.dixons.co.uk/gbuk/touchpad-tablet-pc-32gb-10834969-pdt.html
http://www.dixons.co.uk/gbuk/touchpad-tablet-pc-16gb-10834901-pdt.html

89 quid for the 16GB! That's an absolute bargain.


----------



## magneze (Aug 22, 2011)

I'm thinking about the 32gb one as there's no way to expand the memory with an SD card or whatever.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 22, 2011)

Judging by that hotukdeals thread, I think they've all sold out already, to fools thinking they can get a refund when the price drops


----------



## mack (Aug 22, 2011)

I've stuck one in my amazon basket... just waiting on the signal from the internet 

if that fails as it probably will do I'll go down the local store to see if they've managed to re-stock after getting looted last week.


----------



## magneze (Aug 22, 2011)

^ heh, me too.

*hits refresh a few more times*


----------



## magneze (Aug 22, 2011)

Dixons website starting to struggle ...


----------



## magneze (Aug 22, 2011)

Think they've gone. Had it in my basket but the website died and suddenly it wasn't in there.


----------



## magneze (Aug 22, 2011)

Seeing what's happened with the firesale, who will be the first manufacturer to try this pricepoint with something that isn't being discontinued?


----------



## elbows (Aug 22, 2011)

magneze said:


> Seeing what's happened with the firesale, who will be the first manufacturer to try this pricepoint with something that isn't being discontinued?



Well months ago I said that if HP were real serious about webOS and tablets, they should price extremely aggressively. But I didn't mean this low, and there is no money to be made at this price, they are taking a loss on this, and that won't make sense for hardware providers who aren't really dedicated to building an amazing platform on which to build their business for years to come. Even for those that may be up for such a mission, its risky and Im not convinced manufacturers want price points to reach anything like this level, especially if it cannibalises pc sales.


----------



## elbows (Aug 22, 2011)

Keep an eye on dabs.com. They have not reduced the price yet, but both the 16GB and 32GB are showing more than 200 in stock, so there is a chance of something interesting happening.


----------



## magneze (Aug 22, 2011)

elbows said:


> Well months ago I said that if HP were real serious about webOS and tablets, they should price extremely aggressively. But I didn't mean this low, and there is no money to be made at this price, they are taking a loss on this, and that won't make sense for hardware providers who aren't really dedicated to building an amazing platform on which to build their business for years to come. Even for those that may be up for such a mission, its risky and Im not convinced manufacturers want price points to reach anything like this level, especially if it cannibalises pc sales.


Yep, no hardware only manufacturer would do it, but someone who could sell trackloads of software through the device might.

Google/Motorola & Amazon immediately spring to mind...


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

Damn! I'm annoyed to have missed the chance to bag one of these so cheap. Even if the apps dry up, you'll still be left with a superb browser tablet for around the house.

It's a real shame the OS never got to be mass market: I've used Android, iOS, WM7 etc, and this was by far the best.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 22, 2011)

You might still get a chance! Keep an eye on dabs, as elbows says...


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You might still get a chance! Keep an eye on dabs, as elbows says...


They're still priced at £Daft at the mo', but if the prices do drop can someone post here/PM me please?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 22, 2011)

According to comments on CNET they've disabled internet sales for these at Dixons, PC World and Currys, he reckons if you show up in person tomorrow then you've a chance.  This could be BS though.  Let's all keep an eye out.  I only want something that I can read colour ebooks and pdfs on, don't wanna spend a fortune.


----------



## dervish (Aug 22, 2011)

Rumours are that amazon will drop their prices next.

Still full price on the uk hp site too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

dervish said:


> Rumours are that amazon will drop their prices next.
> 
> Still full price on the uk hp site too.



Yup, reckon there's a fair few people refreshing their screen.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 22, 2011)

yeah, me too - I'm too embarrassed to go into Dixons tomorrow morning, the shame. Will accept goods by post in plain cover.

Also keep an eye on the Tesco website, they're on there....
Wonder what this'll do to other companies tablet sales, they must be furious.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 22, 2011)

Comets website has crashed lol!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

Comet site back up 89 quid for a 16 gig HP touchpad!


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Comet site back up 89 quid for a 16 gig HP touchpad!


I'm not seeing that... Link?

Edit - found it!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

http://www.comet.co.uk/p///740314


----------



## Crispy (Aug 22, 2011)

Buy! Buy! Buy!


----------



## dervish (Aug 22, 2011)

Can't actually buy it though. It comes up with errors.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

It's veh veh slow!


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

Page has gone down again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

Mine didn't at first then the site froze.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

I can see the page but there's no way to buy the thing.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 22, 2011)

This is like a tech version of Glastonbury tickets.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

editor said:


> I can see the page but there's no way to buy the thing.



I can see a buy online button, just hit it and got 'ajax error'


----------



## Crispy (Aug 22, 2011)

I can feel the frustration from here


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

"The product you have selected cannot be purchased at this time."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I can feel the frustration from here



This is feeling a little sad-masochistic now...


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

Looks like the 16GB has gone.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is feeling a little sad-masochistic now...


It's hardly any bother to click a button occasionally, and if I end up getting a lovely tablet for £116 then it'll be worth the minor inconvenience. If not, well, it's hardly the end of the world. And I've still got the HTC Flyer on loan


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

I was just kidding not having a dig at anyone.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 22, 2011)

Ditto - fingers crossed for all of you


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2011)

Well, it's shown as available on PC World but it says all local stores are out of stock. Now that the hot flush of a BARGAIN! is dying down, I'm beginning to wonder if I really want the thing to be honest. It's not like the HTC Flyer is glued to my hands!


----------



## badseed (Aug 22, 2011)

They sold them off in Oz yesterday. They were reduced from $499 to $98. Sale started at 12.00pm, me and my mate got to the shop at 12.20 and they were gone. I was only going to put it away as a xmas pressie for my daughter, so no great loss for me.

A mate at work got one, I had a play with it yesterday afternoon and I was not impressed. Very heavy, just a mini usb socket. No sd card sockets.
I ordered myself a cheap arsed Chinese ibex running android last week, I want one for reading magazines/comics mainly plus a bit of browsing and maybe the odd movie.
Once the HP tablets are hacked and running Android they might be a bit more useful.


----------



## badseed (Aug 22, 2011)

editor said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if I really want the thing to be honest.



It's like genius marketing isn't it. None of the people I spoke to yesterday really wanted one either.
Webos to be relaunched tomorrow


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 22, 2011)

badseed said:


> I want one for reading magazines/comics mainly plus a bit of browsing and maybe the odd movie.


 This is me, I'm honestly not bothered about apps. I just want something for reading that's in colour. Therefore I don't wanna pay laptop prices.


there'll likely be tons of them on fleabay once everyones got them and realised they're shit.


----------



## badseed (Aug 22, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> This is me, I'm honestly not bothered about apps. I just want something for reading that's in colour. Therefore I don't wanna pay laptop prices.
> 
> there'll likely be tons of them on fleabay once everyones got them and realised they're shit.



This is the market tablets are aimed for. Web browsing, Facebook, YouTube, email etc...
They easily could replace a PC for most casual users.

 I will post a review of my Chinese Android tablet when I get it, but I did a fair bit of research so I think it's going to do everything I want.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 22, 2011)

..


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

Damn, people are too fast!!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2011)

Not directly Touchpad, but related.


> The unlocked HP Pre 3 smartphone will go on sale "shortly" in both France and the U.K. for a mere $75 unlocked, according to HP.


http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2391519,00.asp


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 23, 2011)

Bloody hell that's cheap!


----------



## mack (Aug 23, 2011)

Huzzah!! 2 16gb just purchased from Carphone warehouse!


----------



## dervish (Aug 23, 2011)

Staples have just dropped their prices. The 16GB is out of stock though


----------



## ExtraRefined (Aug 23, 2011)

hahaha the staples website seems to be down, presumably under a torrent of tablet crazed bargain hunting nerds.

If anyone finds anywhere else that's stocking them, post it up here please. FWIW pc world claims to have in store stock for bundles (with docks, cases etc) but not anywhere near me. Worth a look perhaps

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/touch...avel-plug-adaptor-twin-pack-PN563999-pdt.html


----------



## grit (Aug 23, 2011)

FUCK, only seen this now


----------



## grit (Aug 23, 2011)

mack said:


> Huzzah!! 2 16gb just purchased from Carphone warehouse!



Where?


----------



## c01642 (Aug 23, 2011)

My order went through with Staples but im not convinced they will honour it.


----------



## magneze (Aug 23, 2011)

LOL, it's like DDoS attack everytime a retailer cuts the price.


----------



## mack (Aug 23, 2011)

grit said:


> Where?


Croydon carphone warehouse.. 5 peeps in the queue.. 6 only in stock.

Still trying on-line for another...


----------



## grit (Aug 23, 2011)

Fuck it just rang around, I'm too late.


----------



## mack (Aug 23, 2011)

Play.com haven't done the price drop yet..
Dabs are about to..
Expansys also haven't dropped yet..


----------



## mack (Aug 23, 2011)

just waiting for my boss to fuck off so I can have a play


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 23, 2011)

It's times like this when I'm pleased I'm self employed.


----------



## magneze (Aug 23, 2011)

One tweet from dabs, site instantly crashes.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

Prices at dabs hasn't dropped, but that tweet has killed it.

That must be costing them a few quid.


----------



## magneze (Aug 23, 2011)

It has. Although they're quoting £125 for the 32gb. Sneaky extra tenner to pay for bandwidth costs I imagine.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

Can't get on. I was trying to add 2 to my basket and now its dead


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Prices at dabs hasn't dropped, but that tweet has killed it.
> 
> That must be costing them a few quid.


Has now:
*Price change£428.97 
£124.47*

"On order, stock delayed"


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

I was trying to get ahead of the game and get 2 on order at the full price but they tweeted that and the site died for me.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2011)

> We are sorry but the secure area of the dabs.com website is currently offline for important maintenance. You may continue browsing the website and adding products to your basket but we cannot currently process your order. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience that this may cause you and rest assured we will be back online shortly.
> 
> Please bear with us, your patience is greatly appreciated.
> 
> *The dabs.com team*


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

Expansys have just gone from stock to no stock in the last few minutes


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2011)

Who knew you could try to run an ecommerce site on a Touchpad?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 23, 2011)

I've just ordered one from Argos at full price. They have a 30 day no quibble guarantee for returns. If they don't refund the difference (like Currys has done for those who had already bought it), then I'm sending it back. I think it's worth the hassle. Am I daft? I am going to have to sit on my hands and not tamper with the package, just incase they say 'no'.


----------



## magneze (Aug 23, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Expansys have just gone from stock to no stock in the last few minutes


Rumour is that the employees got them all.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

Fair doo's


----------



## mack (Aug 23, 2011)

posting from my new touchpad... I like it! Web Os is pretty cool.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

mack said:


> posting from my new touchpad... I like it! Web Os is pretty cool.


Lucky bugger!


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

Some big sites have crashed completely under the demand: staples.co.uk has been offline for some time.


----------



## magneze (Aug 23, 2011)

You can pretty much take any site offline by tweeting "x.com has hp touchpads at discount"


----------



## Teepee (Aug 23, 2011)

just came to lunch from work only to find all the discounted ones have gone! gah! you watch.. the second i go back the play ones will be discounted


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm still having sporadic attempts to get one of these things but with no luck.


----------



## magneze (Aug 23, 2011)

Insight had 572 in stock then their site died. If it ever comes back it might be worth a look, I can't see how anyone actually managed to buy one.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Aug 23, 2011)

http://www.stuff-uk.net/

Are taking preorders for their price drop tommorow. Madness 

ETA misco twitter has announced they'll be cutting prices and they're website's already down

http://twitter.com/#!/misco_uk


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 23, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> http://www.stuff-uk.net/
> 
> Are taking preorders for their price drop tommorow. Madness



9 in stock 

There was a thread on HotUKDeals, where everyone bought one from Currys assuming they'd honour the price drop (and then sold out), before someone reminded them they wouldn't need to drop the price if they had none left!


----------



## Callum91 (Aug 23, 2011)

For £49 I'd buy a Pre 3, absolutely!


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 23, 2011)

The Argos Twitter page http://twitter.com/#!/ArgosHelpers  Everyone extending their reservations for an extra day. If they don't drop the price significantly, they're gonna be lumbered with lots and lots of unwanted touch pads. Including mine.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

32gb models have disappeared off play.com


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

Sunray said:


> 32gb models have disappeared off play.com


It's still there but with no price:
http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/20645...tml?_$ja=tsid:11518|cat:20645783|prd:20645783

To be honest I'm surprised at the site-crashing demand for these tablets. I knew people would be up for the bargain, but to see so many big name sites crashing under such immense traffic is a little unexpected.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

And now a site listing the availability of sites selling the discounted tablets has crashed!
http://www.fenestra.co.uk/tablet/hp-touch-pad-pulled.html


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 23, 2011)

It's a good lesson in who builds the sturdiest site, Amazon has barely wobbled all day, most others have gone completely tits up.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> It's a good lesson in who builds the sturdiest site, Amazon has barely wobbled all day, most others have gone completely tits up.


It's making me wonder just how many people are scrambling for this tablet. To take down so many big sites, it must be in the tens of thousands rather than hundreds.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 23, 2011)

It must at least be in the thousands - it was in quite a few newspapers.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 23, 2011)

Play have gone from in stock to out of stock and unless you know the direct link, they are not showing up.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

This could be the best bet: http://hp.weareelectricals.com/touchpad.html#ABB


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

So the TouchPad finally became the UK's biggest selling tablet, even if it only got to shine for a few moments...



> HP's discontinued tablet computer, the Touchpad has briefly become the UK's most wanted gadget.
> 
> Online retailer Dabs.com sold its stock of 500 Touchpads in just 15 minutes.
> 
> ...


----------



## magneze (Aug 23, 2011)

Apparently HP US still have lots in the warehouse which will be released. Whether these make it to any retailer or whether HP brings their own website down by attempting to sale direct is anyone's guess.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2011)

Amazon are rather cannily selling the 32GB for £260. Actually, scratch that. It's just gone up to £499. Play.com have sold out.


----------



## ovaltina (Aug 23, 2011)

I was looking to get one this morning. My partner runs a hair salon and something like this would be great for managing appointments, holding the salon music collection and being a sexy photo frame when not in use for anything else. I didn't put too much time into it though, just called curries when they opened at 830' but they'd already sold out.


----------



## Teepee (Aug 23, 2011)

just got back from work, seem to have missed them all - bollocks!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 23, 2011)

Jesus don't these sites do bloody load bearing tests before going live?!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 23, 2011)

Callum91 said:


> For £49 I'd buy a Pre 3, absolutely!



Me too very good price that!


----------



## ovaltina (Aug 23, 2011)

I'd be interested in a pre 3 for £50... I reckon it'd good solid phone. Somebody will work out how to put android on it sooner or later.


----------



## Callum91 (Aug 23, 2011)

2 of my friends have bought Touchpads for £89. Both of them are absolute technophobes but said for the price it was hard to say no.


----------



## Teepee (Aug 23, 2011)

man i really wanted one of those!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 24, 2011)

Callum91 said:


> 2 of my friends have bought Touchpads for £89. Both of them are absolute technophobes but said for the price it was hard to say no.


...I would. "Hello would you like to pay £89 for a tablet you don't want?" "No ta."


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> ...I would. "Hello would you like to pay £89 for a tablet you don't want?" "No ta."


But that's because you've already spent a considerably larger sum of money for a tablet.

Judging by the unprecedented, site-crashing traffic levels today, there clearly is an awful lot of people who are very happy to pay £89 for a decent tablet, me included.

*desperate plea follows: if anyone has a spare one.....


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 24, 2011)

Beyond geek history value, I can't really see the point in buying a tablet that will never have any updates or new software. The browser alone will be out of date in a year or less. Find a crippling bug? Tough luck. And so on. I suppose it's got a longer shelf life than some shit Android tablet for the same price, mind - at least the hardware is apparently okay.


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Beyond geek history value, I can't really see the point in buying a tablet that will never have any updates or new software. The browser alone will be out of date in a year or less. Find a crippling bug? Tough luck. And so on. I suppose it's got a longer shelf life than some shit Android tablet for the same price, mind - at least the hardware is apparently okay.


I hate this kind of tech-sneery attitude.

For £89 people will get a "slick, intuitive, powerful" tablet that will be able to send emails, browse the web, play videos, update Facebook/Twitter, read Kindle books, look at their photos and do most of the things you do on your £500 tablet.

HP have committed to software updates for the foreseeable future and geeks are already progressing on an Android port. And that's assuming that no one buys the OS or devs issue patches and updates.

If a few features become less usable after 3 years, then that's hardly the end of the world. After all, how many iPad users do you think will be using the same tablet after that amount of time?

For £89, this is an _absolute bargain._


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 24, 2011)

I hate this kind of user-exploitative geek attitude. The whole idea that it's going to have updates and if not "the community" will provide - rubbish. It won't have updates, WebOS is dead and HP have no further interest in it - _they are lying_ - and nobody apart from dedicated geeks would put Android on the thing. So you're stuck with a tablet that won't improve and that you can't use software on. Wonderful. I'd never recommend anyone invest their money and more importantly time on a dead platform. I suppose for 89 quid it's worth a punt but only if you're not fussed about buying a new tablet in a year or less, or it's something to buy out of gadget interest.


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## editor (Aug 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I hate this kind of user-exploitative geek attitude. The whole idea that it's going to have updates and if not "the community" will provide - rubbish. It won't have updates, WebOS is dead and HP have no further interest in it - _they are lying_ - and nobody apart from dedicated geeks would put Android on the thing. So you're stuck with a tablet that won't improve and that you can't use software on.


Not quite sure how you can be so emphatic that HP are "lying" about providing updates but I'm afraid that the rest of your post just shows that you just can't see past your own super-techie outlook.

Not everyone wants to install zillions of apps on every device they buy, and some people will be delighted to have a well reviewed tablet at such a fantastic price that can all the everyday tasks a more expensive tablet can do. Not everyone needs the latest gadget, nor do they need to be doing cutting edge things on it - that's why millions of people are still happy using shonky old phones.

For £89 this is a bargain and a lot of people will be well chuffed to have got it at such a great price - even if in a year's time there's no new shiny stuff to put on it.



> Top-notch, intuitive user interface. Fast performance. 9.7-inch, 4:3 screen excellent for video and photos. Synergy features make integrating with social networks and websites easy. Strong Facebook app....
> 
> With solid hardware and a user-friendly operating system based around multitasking and intuitive organization, the HP TouchPad is the best non-Apple tablet we've tested. There aren't a lot of apps yet, but Android Honeycomb tablet manufacturers should be a little nervous
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387560,00.asp


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## editor (Aug 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I hate this kind of user-exploitative geek attitude.


Oh, and I don't know what this means, sorry. Who's exploiting who, here?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I hate this kind of user-exploitative geek attitude. The whole idea that it's going to have updates and if not "the community" will provide - rubbish. It won't have updates, WebOS is dead and HP have no further interest in it - _they are lying_ - and nobody apart from dedicated geeks would put Android on the thing. So you're stuck with a tablet that won't improve and that you can't use software on. Wonderful. I'd never recommend anyone invest their money and more importantly time on a dead platform. I suppose for 89 quid it's worth a punt but only if you're not fussed about buying a new tablet in a year or less, or it's something to buy out of gadget interest.



Pouring cold water on the hyper consumer frenzy mate, if people want to waste their money why should anyone care?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 24, 2011)

editor said:


> Not quite sure how you can be so emphatic that HP are "lying" about providing updates but I'm afraid that the rest of your post just shows that you just can't see past your own super-techie outlook.
> 
> Not everyone wants to install zillions of apps on every device they buy, and some people will be delighted to have a well reviewed tablet at such a fantastic price that can all the everyday tasks a more expensive tablet can do. Not everyone needs the latest gadget, nor do they need to be doing cutting edge things on it - that's why millions of people are still happy using shonky old phones.
> 
> For £89 this is a bargain and a lot of people will be well chuffed to have got it at such a great price - even if in a year's time there's no new shiny stuff to put on it.



Lol it's funny how you understand this simple point about the desires of the average consumer when Apple isn't involved.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm with editor on this - I'm really not fussed about apps, my laptop is five years old (my last one carked it at five years old too) and I'm not sure whether I can be bothered to even upgrade my phone.  It will do what I want it to do - read colour pdfs and ebooks and surf. For other stuff, I've still got my laptop. It's one of the reasons I haven't got an ipad - too much money to pay for some basic tasks.
In the other news - Argos have finally dropped the price, lets see if they honour it with my order.


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## ExtraRefined (Aug 24, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I hate this kind of user-exploitative geek attitude. The whole idea that it's going to have updates and if not "the community" will provide - rubbish. It won't have updates, WebOS is dead and HP have no further interest in it - _they are lying_ - and nobody apart from dedicated geeks would put Android on the thing. So you're stuck with a tablet that won't improve and that you can't use software on. Wonderful. I'd never recommend anyone invest their money and more importantly time on a dead platform. I suppose for 89 quid it's worth a punt but only if you're not fussed about buying a new tablet in a year or less, or it's something to buy out of gadget interest.



Even if the browser is uselessly out of date in a years time (doubtful), and no one bothers to write a new webOS browser for an installed base of several hunderd thousand (unlikely), and android isn't ported to it, £89 is still about one third of the depreciation on an iPad in the same time frame.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 24, 2011)

RESULT!  It arrived about half an hour ago by courier - I just called Argos customers services and they said they will refund the difference back to my card within 7 days. So, so pleased coz I've been sitting on my hands since it arrived and haven't dared even rip the packaging open, because I thought I'd have to send it back.    It has cost me a bargain £115 for the 32gb version.


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## magneze (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm now hoping to get one for less than £89. Seems that lots of people have bought more than one. Thing is, everyone's had the same idea so the price on ebay will probably be about £50 soon.


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## mack (Aug 24, 2011)

Anyway... Such a great bargain.. It works really well right out the box (there is an immediate update available) - simple set up with google accounts etc.

I really like the browser (and Iplayer works nicely as does all the flash stuff I've encountered) and the calendar looks really neat, wifi seems much stronger than my laptop from the same position in my flat.

Haven't tried the music player.. videos you seem to have to convert to mp4 (haven't searched for an app that will play other stuff yet)

The only real problem is the lack of WebOs apps which may or may not change in the future, But I'll be sticking Android on it as soon as it is stable so that won't bother me.

The only other thing is when I was buying the machine the other 4 guys in the queue all agreed like me that they had no interest in tablets at the current £400+ price points, and they all said they would be sticking Android on it as soon as it was available.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 24, 2011)

magneze said:


> I'm now hoping to get one for less than £89. Seems that lots of people have bought more than one. Thing is, everyone's had the same idea so the price on ebay will probably be about £50 soon.


I reckon this is going to really piss off everyone else who is trying to flog tablets that aren't ipads. Was talking to my brother (an app developer), he says they're not bothering writing apps for Android tablets anymore, not worth it.
I was actually in the market for a tablet - I just couldn't decide which one, so that's one customer lost to this bargain grab. Agree with Mack, they're just too expensive, they need to be the same price or less than Netbooks to grab peoples attention


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## ExtraRefined (Aug 24, 2011)

Indeed, the reason Android phones have so quickly and dramatically overtaken iOS in sales is because they're significantly cheaper and have more features. The Android tablets, and full price Touchpads have been neither of these things. Yet. Apple is obviously scared that the Galaxy is going to out compete it on performance though, and perhaps this affair will give manufacturers the incentive to seriously compete on price too.


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## magneze (Aug 24, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> I reckon this is going to really piss off everyone else who is trying to flog tablets that aren't ipads. Was talking to my brother (an app developer), he says they're not bothering writing apps for Android tablets anymore, not worth it.
> I was actually in the market for a tablet - I just couldn't decide which one, so that's one customer lost to this bargain grab. Agree with Mack, they're just too expensive, they need to be the same price or less than Netbooks to grab peoples attention


Yep, no-one is going to want to release a tablet at the moment. Either loads of people have a Touchpad or will just baulk at the price in comparison.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 24, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> Indeed, the reason Android phones have so quickly and dramatically overtaken iOS in sales is because they're significantly cheaper and have more features. The Android tablets, and full price Touchpads have been neither of these things. Yet. Apple is obviously scared that the Galaxy is going to out compete it on performance though, and perhaps this affair will give manufacturers the incentive to seriously compete on price too.


Galaxy was at the top of my list - but I planned to wait til I go on holiday to the states in November to see if I could get anything better out there.  I also considered the Nook Barnes and Noble ebook reader (available in the USA) but this was cheaper so it was a no brainer, really.


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## mack (Aug 24, 2011)

fuckin A!

Just follow these extremely simple instructions to enhance your new bargain Touchpad... loads of tweeks for geeks!

http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touchpad/293028-new-touchpad-heres-your-get-started-guide.html


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## editor (Aug 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol it's funny how you understand this simple point about the desires of the average consumer when Apple isn't involved.


I'm sure you think you're making a clever point here, but I'm afraid I don't understand it. The HP is selling because it's a startlingly cheap tablet. That's it.

There has been no Apple-like hype or media manipulation, and the consumers aren't rushing to buy the brand or queue up for days just to high five a staff member and get a t-shirt: they're just buying a capable, useful device at a great price. So what's Apple got to do with it?


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## elbows (Aug 24, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> Indeed, the reason Android phones have so quickly and dramatically overtaken iOS in sales is because they're significantly cheaper and have more features. The Android tablets, and full price Touchpads have been neither of these things. Yet. Apple is obviously scared that the Galaxy is going to out compete it on performance though, and perhaps this affair will give manufacturers the incentive to seriously compete on price too.



Its also because there is loads of choice. The iPhone is still an incredibly popular phone, with some figures suggesting its still the number one in the USA, but because the Android platform is available on so many devices, as a whole it has greater market share.

Manufacturers really don't want to compete on price too aggressively or else there is simply a race to the bottom and their margins get completely eroded.


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## grit (Aug 24, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> he says they're not bothering writing apps for Android tablets anymore, not worth it.



It is getting pretty hard to justify for some teams...


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 24, 2011)

See they are going for £200 on ebay new, assuming people are buying them at that price.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 25, 2011)

Ok, my review, seeing as I've had the thing for a day.
Bad points
- It runs slowly (I've not tried the trick to speed it up yet)
- The Kindle app is only for the USA - most of my books are.epub but I have half a dozen Kindle ones.  I'm gonna have to try and figure out a work-round.  If you've bought one and haven't yet set it up - set it up for the USA.  Then you can get this app.
-wifi only - nowhere to put a sim - if you're in an area that doesn't have wifi then you're gonna have to invest in a 3 mifi dongle, (which I have just done). On the Maplin forum, people claim to have got it to work with ordinary 3g dongles but they don't say how.
-you can't sync it with Microsoft Outlook - only via Microsoft Exchange.  They only work-round they offer is to upload your address book etc to Google and then download it from there. Fuck off - I'm not going to give Google all that info about me!
Good points
-Comes with free 50 gig of cloud storage (whether I'll use this, being on 3g most of the time is another thing entirely).
-Already set up for msn, Skype etc.
-speakers and sound are good, just did a test Skype call with my brother, even he was impressed.
-there *is* an app market, lots of the apps that you can get for anything else, I've downloaded the ones I think will be useful. They are in the thousands as opposed to being in the hundreds of thousands that you get for the ipad.
-the best thing about the device for me is the file transfer.  It doesn't require any desktop software to transfer files.  You plug it in and it shows up as a USB flash drive. So you can put files on it in any file structure you choose, just drag and drop. When you open the apps to view/play/read these items, it just finds them.  I like this, no fannying about! It means I can take it round friends and plunder their music collections.
-the charger is small and neat.
Am I now the 'Dead OS' queen of Urban?  I've a N900 which I love (18 months old) and now this!


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 25, 2011)

dp


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## mack (Aug 25, 2011)

http://inntw.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/getting-started-with-your-touchpad-uk-kindle-app/ 

Get a decent Android phone and use the wifi hotspot feature!


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## magneze (Aug 25, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> - The Kindle app is only for the USA - most of my books are.epub but I have half a dozen Kindle ones. I'm gonna have to try and figure out a work-round. If you've bought one and haven't yet set it up - set it up for the USA. Then you can get this app.


Does https://read.amazon.com/ work on it? Should work through the browser rather than needing an app.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 25, 2011)

mack said:


> http://inntw.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/getting-started-with-your-touchpad-uk-kindle-app/
> 
> Get a decent Android phone and use the wifi hotspot feature!


 I saw that link but I'd already updated the firmware by then - I don't wanna do a hard reset incase I brick it (I'm known for this).


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 25, 2011)

magneze said:


> Does https://read.amazon.com/ work on it? Should work through the browser rather than needing an app.


It probably does, but not much use if you're on a train, tube, plane or inside a narrowboat (pretty much the only places I ever read).


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## magneze (Aug 25, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> It probably does, but not much use if you're on a train, tube, plane or inside a narrowboat (pretty much the only places I ever read).


Apparently it works offline!


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 25, 2011)

ooooohhh! I'll have to give it a go.  And fuck you Amazon with your Topaz drm - that is all.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 25, 2011)

Does not work on the WebOs browser, it's not supported - bah!


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## magneze (Aug 25, 2011)

Shame, was hoping to use the TouchPad as a e-reader if I got one.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm sure there must be a way of reading files, just find a converter that put them into the right format.


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## magneze (Aug 26, 2011)

The HP online store looked like they might have them in stock, but at full price. I just phoned them to find out what's going on - there will be no more stock in the UK. All the rumoured extra stock is in the US.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 26, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> I'm sure there must be a way of reading files, just find a converter that put them into the right format.


You have to register your device to Amazon to read Kindle files. The way that you can remove the DRM from Amazon files is a PITA  - I'm not enough of a script kiddie to do it - my brother is but he's sick of being the worlds IT help desk, so I daren't ask him. Bloody Amazon.


> Shame, was hoping to use the TouchPad as a e-reader if I got one.


You still can do  - when you get it, register it as a USA Device and you will have the app!  I think I might go for it and do a factory reset and do the same.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 26, 2011)

I've manged to reset it as USA - it was really easy - the Kindle app now is on there  .  All I did was back up, then erase, then just set it up with a totally new Web Os id (I used a different email address and password to before).  I guess I can always revert to my old UK ID, coz it's still there, backed up to the cloud. Pleased. Because that was easy.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 26, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> You have to register your device to Amazon to read Kindle files. The way that you can remove the DRM from Amazon files is a PITA - I'm not enough of a script kiddie to do it - my brother is but he's sick of being the worlds IT help desk, so I daren't ask him. Bloody Amazon.



Alternatively torrent them from a different source.


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 26, 2011)

I





Global Stoner said:


> Alternatively torrent them from a different source.


Can't find torrents of_ any_ the books I've got on KIndle at all, I don't read much fiction for a start - I don't read many bestsellers. Anyway, it works perfectly now, I've got my Kindle app so I'm happy. I 'd recommend anyone who gets one of these to set it up as USA - some of the UK newspaper apps are still on there and there are zillions more of everything else.  You wont be able to buy apps unless you've a USA registered credit card but sod that - I'm not paying for apps!


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## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

Touchpad is now the second biggest selling tablet on the planet and there's an update planned. There's even rumours of tablet production starting up again if the tablet part of the company is spun off  - sell them for £200-£250 and they might just be able to make a go of it.

http://gizmodo.com/5835758/hp-touchpad-becomes-2-selling-tablet-and-will-get-updates


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## elbows (Aug 30, 2011)

editor said:


> Touchpad is now the second biggest selling tablet on the planet and there's an update planned. There's even rumours of tablet production starting up again if the tablet part of the company is spun off - sell them for £200-£250 and they might just be able to make a go of it.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5835758/hp-touchpad-becomes-2-selling-tablet-and-will-get-updates



Its a good things its still early days for other non-Apple tablets, because for HP to be the 2nd biggest seller, means nobody else has sold over a million units (or perhaps as low as 500,000, since nobody knows exactly how many HP's were manufactured). Dreadful.

I don't know how much these HP sales really tell us. They indicate that people like the idea of tablets, and that there is a magic price-point, and that a brand people have heard of probably helps a bit. I think its also possible that the stuff that WebOS does well is much better known than its shortcomings at this point, will be interesting to see how the masses who have just got a TouchPad find the OS after they've used it for a while. But the very general, non-IT or tablet specific 'whoa a huge bargain to be had here, I must join in' phenomenon was also at work, so I should not get too carried away with what this means for tablets in general or WebOS specifically.

It wasn't that hard to predict that one way for someone to properly compete with the iPad was to price very aggressively. Months ago when I said HP would need to do that if they were serious about WebOS, I was thinking more along the lines of £200-£250, since whilst £99 makes success far more certain, I expect it also means heavy losses. But I'm not sure quite how big the £250 market is, probably need some decent apps for that priced device. At this point I think Amazon stand much better chance going forwards than any HP-spin off.

If reasonable tablets could actually be whacked out for £99 a pop then there are all sorts of disruptive businesses that could be built on top of that. You could afford to give the hardware away to the customers of your service for a start, or equip a large workforce or community with tablets.


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## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

The big player in this could well turn out to be Amazon. If they knock out a cheap tablet, then it may well prove to be a very, very serious rival to the iPad.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 30, 2011)

If Amazon can get a tablet out for £199 or less they'll sell millions...anything above that and they run up against the tablet Titan that is the iPad pretty quickly..


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## Crispy (Aug 30, 2011)

Yep. Even if it's only got 8GB and not-amazing graphics, a £199 Android 3 (I'm not calling it honeycomb, in preparation for _really_ not calling version 4 "ice cream sandwich" ffs!) tablet, backed by Amazon, with a Christmas advertising blitz, will seel by the million. Guaranteed.


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## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If Amazon can get a tablet out for £199 or less they'll sell millions...anything above that and they run up against the tablet Titan that is the iPad pretty quickly..


Amazon can afford to sell the hardware at a loss and they've got all they need to provide a very compelling alternative: cloud storage, music store, book store, movie store, appstore and the credit cards of 200+ million users


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 30, 2011)

Even better for folk like me if you can use it for everything else. I've hardly bought any of the content on my Kindle from Amazon.


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## Crispy (Aug 30, 2011)

editor said:


> Amazon can afford to sell the hardware at a loss and they've got all they need to provide a very compelling alternative: cloud storage, music store, book store, movie store, appstore and the credit cards of 200+ million users


I'm sure they can afford it, but would it be profitable? Apple says they just about break even on their content business, which is really a lure for selling hardware, which they make a profit on due to their premium pricing and very aggressive deals with their suppliers. Amazon would only offer the hardware at a loss if they were sure of being able to make good money on the content - like the games console business.

Will be very interesting to see what they do. The touchpad firesale has indicated massive latent demand.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 30, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Yep. Even if it's only got 8GB and not-amazing graphics, a £199 Android 3 (I'm not calling it honeycomb, in preparation for _really_ not calling version 4 "ice cream sandwich" ffs!) tablet, backed by Amazon, with a Christmas advertising blitz, will seel by the million. Guaranteed.



Yup, it doesn't need a huge hard drive, everything's going cloud these days...Amazon could really do this, HP have proved there is a huge appetite for a good budget tablet (not those shitty sub 100 pounds ones you get in supermarkets either!).


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup, it doesn't need a huge hard drive, everything's going cloud these days...



You have used mobile data in a city recently?


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## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I'm sure they can afford it, but would it be profitable?


Quite a lot of industry pundits seem to think so:



> Here’s what Amazon has that others don’t:
> 
> The motivation to counter Apple’s threat to its business model. By implementing onerous rules for eBook sellers and other content providers that require in-app payments, Apple may have created its own worst enemy. Now Amazon has the motivation to launch its own device, where it will have more control over payments and customer data.
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 30, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> You have used mobile data in a city recently?



All the time, it's getting better and better but remember you don't sync all the time. I know plenty of people who LOVE their Kindles but don't have 3G versions, couple that with the fact that most people use their iPads etc in their own homes...

Amazon could really be on to a winner here. It won't 'kill' the iPad but it could piss from a great height on all the embarrassingly bad attempts by the Samsung's and Motorola's of this world to do well in the tablet market.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> All the time, it's getting better and better but remember you don't sync all the time. I know plenty of people who LOVE their Kindles but don't have 3G versions, couple that with the fact that most people use their iPads etc in their own homes...
> 
> Amazon could really be on to a winner here. It won't 'kill' the iPad but it could piss from a great height on all the embarrassingly bad attempts by the Samsung's and Motorola's of this world to do well in the tablet market.



Yup I'm one of them...plenty of space on Kindle fortunately. It's more about the concept of "cloud" storage on mobile devices...tbh for many people 8gb would be fine for local storage, but when I want to put more content on I want it to be quick.

Don't get why you'd buy something like that for using in your home, but each to their own.


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## elbows (Aug 30, 2011)

editor said:


> Quite a lot of industry pundits seem to think so:



Yeah the Guardian has noticed this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/aug/30/amazon-apple-ipad


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## lobster (Aug 30, 2011)

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/01/28/does-amazon-make-money-on-the-kindle/


> Does Amazon Make Money on the Kindle?
> 
> A study by market-research firm iSuppli last year estimated the total cost of materials for the 3G Kindle at $155.56 – about $33 less than the $189 selling price for the device. Since iSuppli’s estimates do not include the cost of software, licensing, royalties, manufacturing expenses (Amazon outsources production of the Kindle) and a cut for the wireless carriers, analysts suspect Amazon likely sells the Kindle at a slight loss.
> 
> Many analysts assume the Kindle operates on a razor-razorblade model, which is the tactic of selling one good (like razors) at a discount, and a second good that it dependent on it (like razorblades) at a higher price. For Amazon, this would mean selling the Kindle at a discount in order to make money on e-book sales.



The above sounds about right, i am not convinced amazon can pull this off so easier with a android tablet as the sales of paid apps vs free apps is low .

http://www.distimo.com/blog/2011_05_in-depth-view-on-download-volumes-in-the-google-android-market/



> In-Depth View On Download Volumes In The Google Android Market
> 
> Posted onMay 26, 2011by Hendrik Koekkoek
> The major findings are:
> ...



The Ipad has sold a lot more than all the android tablets together so its a bit of a silly comparison in the above article, its a a worst case scenario at best .
  I would like to see how many apps are sold on the touchpad which may give a good indicator to what the tablet users are willing to spend.

I think the success with the kindle is instant books and the average person buying a kindle i would imagine, read a fair amount of books a year  (  20  - 50 )anything less is cheaper to just buy them as books.


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## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

Some more TouchPads are coming, although maybe only in the US:


> Q: When is HP getting more HP TouchPads? One week, two weeks, a month?
> A limited supply are coming and it will be a few weeks before they are available. As we know more about how, when, and where TouchPads will be available, we will communicate that here and through email to those who requested notification. We can tell you that HP’s Small and Medium Business team has sold out of HP TouchPads and will not have more inventory.
> 
> Q: Can you comment on whether HP had to manufacture more to meet the recent demand?
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 30, 2011)

Heh someone mused whether this was some type of nuclear option marketing ploy...wouldn't surprise me to be honest...


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## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh someone mused whether this was some type of nuclear option marketing ploy...wouldn't surprise me to be honest...


Seeing as HP were making a massive loss on each tablet, I very much doubt that.


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## Sunray (Aug 31, 2011)

People are snapping HP touchpads on ebay for the 150-200 mark.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2011)

editor said:


> Seeing as HP were making a massive loss on each tablet, I very much doubt that.



Nintendo have made losses on the main device in the past and made it back on software. It's entirely possible that they made a calculation like that...


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## editor (Aug 31, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nintendo have made losses on the main device in the past and made it back on software. It's entirely possible that they made a calculation like that...


This really isn't a cunning tablet-selling strategy by HP, you know. They've lost a fortune on this and there are no opportunities for them to gain back lost revenues via tablet software because they don't sell any.


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## Crispy (Aug 31, 2011)

Nintendo make money on hardware. The rest of the console business makes a loss and then makes it back in software, but games are £30-50 a go, not 70p


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## editor (Aug 31, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Nintendo make money on hardware. The rest of the console business makes a loss and then makes it back in software, but games are £30-50 a go, not 70p


HP don't sell webOS software anyway. The best that can come out of this for them is if another company sees potential in the webOS tablets and buys up the division.


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## Crispy (Aug 31, 2011)

The coffin lid of that argument is now entirely made of nails


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## editor (Aug 31, 2011)

I suspect that the reason that HP are selling this one last batch is that they've already ordered all the components so may as well get rid of them rather than shove them into landfill. There's tantalising talk of an unreleased 7" tablet too...


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## Crispy (Aug 31, 2011)

Also, given that they're guaranteed to sell, and therefore increase the number of webOS devices in circulation, it increases the value of webOS itself when they sell/license it.


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## editor (Aug 31, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Also, given that they're guaranteed to sell, and therefore increase the number of webOS devices in circulation, it increases the value of webOS itself when they sell/license it.


Although that value has been hit hard with the big flog off. They've effectively lost the majority of their third party web devs at a stroke and as any fule knows, it's all about the apps!


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2011)

editor said:


> This really isn't a cunning tablet-selling strategy by HP, you know. They've lost a fortune on this and there are no opportunities for them to gain back lost revenues via tablet software because they don't sell any.



Yee was just playing with the idea tbh...best bet for webOS now is for someone like Samsung to buy it (which I'd really like).


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## pinkmonkey (Aug 31, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If Amazon can get a tablet out for £199 or less they'll sell millions...anything above that and they run up against the tablet Titan that is the iPad pretty quickly..


I think tablets need to be under £250 to sell (if they're not ipads).  I think most people (myself included) just cannot justify the prices that are being charged for something that is really a fancy toy.  I *need* my laptop and phone for work, I don't *need* a tablet. £399 is a laptop price, I wouldn't spend it on a 'toy.'
Having said that, since we got the touchpad, we haven't put it down.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 12, 2011)

I've now managed to download some WebOs developer tools and mount the USA Kindle app on my now Uk registered Touchpad. It's pretty easy to do this with any free foreign apps that aren't available in the UK, by resetting your device and reregistering it as a foreign device. You then use the developer tools to convert and transfer that app to the UK version of your device. Some helpful bods on the pre forums have uploaded ready converted apps, so you can just grab them and install.
I've found a good open source player that plays most video formats, so I'm not stuck with MP4's
Further comments. I'd been hesitant to buy a tablet, but I now use this every day. I took it with me on business and left the laptop at home. My friend (who has an ipad 1) came to stay and her tablet was noticably slower than mine.
The build quality is shit and the case has already started to crack around the speakers. Hard storage case on order now, lol. I'm not the only one - theres a 18 page thread about this on the precentral forums.
I don't much like typing on a screen, it reminds me of trying to type on those soft touch silicone keyboards, you end up having to go back and edit loads.  I prefer my laptop for typing and will keep my phone with it's qwerty keyboard for the same reason.
Would I switch to Android? If I can dual boot, yes, but my bruv (who has managed the dev. of tablet and phone apps for big co.'s such as Disney, Beeb etc) has had a play and says he thinks Android is cack compared to WebOs. Having never used Android, I can't comment. At the moment this gadget does everything that I want it to do, (in a shonky case lol). I think the Amazon tablet will wipe the floor with all the other Android tablets. I predict some bargains after Christmas. My bruv reckons Samsung have only sold 20,000 tablets, dunno how true this is but if it is :-0


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## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

WebOS is easily the best mobile/tablet OS at the moment. Shame the OS is all but doomed.


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## mack (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> WebOS is easily the best mobile/tablet OS at the moment. Shame the OS is all but doomed.



I don't like it 

I guess I'm more into the whole customising thing with Android - I just find web os on the Touchpad to be pretty looking but restricting.
Maybe it's down to being unfamiliar with it but I also find the lack off apps and the way they are presented on the HP market to be a bit shit.

I'm waiting for an Android port over to the pad but there's no guarantee that it will be as nice as I'm hoping it will be.  

If the Amazon tab is any good then I'll probably get one and pass this TP on.


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## Crispy (Sep 12, 2011)

HTC mulling purchase of WebOS

Would be a good match I think.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Yeah a very good match!


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## magneze (Sep 12, 2011)

Totally makes sense. There's increasing verticalization (?) happening in the industry. Not good for open standards but somewhat predicable after Google's move for Motorola and Microsoft's Nokia deal.


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## magneze (Sep 12, 2011)

Thinking about that again - it could be quite good for open standards if it hastens the move to web apps over native apps due to the platform fragmentation.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

magneze said:


> Totally makes sense. There's increasing verticalization (?) happening in the industry. Not good for open standards but somewhat predicable after Google's move for Motorola and Microsoft's Nokia deal.



I'd like it and for HTC to focus more on that leaving Android for Motorolla and Samsung. It'd mean we'd have four decent OS' backed by four very big players to choose from, more choice is a good thing.


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## magneze (Sep 12, 2011)

Samsung might concentrate on Bada...


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## Crispy (Sep 12, 2011)

magneze said:


> Thinking about that again - it could be quite good for open standards if it hastens the move to web apps over native apps due to the platform fragmentation.


Until network availability is 100% guaranteed, I don't see how web apps will succeed. All those users on the underground!


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## magneze (Sep 12, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Until network availability is 100% guaranteed, I don't see how web apps will succeed. All those users on the underground!


Amazon cloud reader is works offline throughout the browser. Potentially the start of this move IMO. More sophisticated stuff like games needs better standards around 3d but for more basic apps the tech is there, just not widely used yet.


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## elbows (Sep 12, 2011)

The line between web-apps and native apps is blurred anyway.

For example web apps may refer to web technologies being used to create the app, but does not necessarily mean the app lives in the cloud. They can live on the device and work when no internet connection is available, depending on what we are talking about exactly. It helps that HTML5 has some stuff for local databases that live inside the users browser.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 26, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Until network availability is 100% guaranteed, I don't see how web apps will succeed. All those users on the underground!


The place I've seen most tablets in use is on Aircraft.  You still don't seen them much anywhere else, perhaps the odd commuter train.  So cloud apps would *have* to work offline, otherwise it's just gonna annoy people.
Anyway, I just got a new comic book reader app.  And I haven't been able to prise my Touchpad out of El Jugs hands ever since. :/


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> The place I've seen most tablets in use is on Aircraft.  You still don't seen them much anywhere else, perhaps the odd commuter train.  So cloud apps would *have* to work offline, otherwise it's just gonna annoy people.
> Anyway, I just got a new comic book reader app.  And I haven't been able to prise my Touchpad out of El Jugs hands ever since. :/



I see iPads all the time on the tube,  I've even noticed a rise in people using them on the bus too in London...


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 26, 2011)

I wouldn't use one on the bus where I live (Tottenham) - you're a bit foolhardy to even use iphone after dark. I know half a dozen people who have been mugged for them here.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 26, 2011)

You see them mostly in town, but you do see them. You also see people wandering around with them as they move between meetings or offices, in the same way that you see people with Black n Red notebooks or zip-up portfolios. Probably more around where I work in Old Street than in some other areas, to be fair.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2011)

Yup I've seen your business types with about too. I actually see more
iPads now than I do Kindle which is a complete reverse on about 6 months ago...


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## mack (Oct 13, 2011)

Just about to try and Install an Alpha CM7 to the tp, might possibly have a bricked touchpad for sale later!

eta. 

It was really easy in the end, download a few files run a command and bingo.. I now have an android tablet! 

It's running pretty well so far - i.e wifi, email, browsing, Angry Birds!, You Tube etc.
Can't download any tablet specific apps (not that there is many anyway) as the market sees the device as a phone at the moment. 

Can't wait for a CM based ICS when comes out.


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## elbows (Dec 10, 2011)

HP are making webOS open source:

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/111209xa.html


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2011)

HP Source?


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## magneze (Dec 10, 2011)

That's probably the best chance it has to become a mobile OS player. It's not a great chance, but with Microsoft getting all the Android licensees to cough up money to them it might get some attention.


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## mack (Jan 18, 2012)

ICS alpha is out now.. installed and working! well most of it.. looks bloody lovely.

http://rootzwiki.com/topic/15509-releasealpha0-cyanogenmod-9-touchpad/


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## stuff_it (Jan 6, 2015)

mack said:


> ICS alpha is out now.. installed and working! well most of it.. looks bloody lovely.
> 
> http://rootzwiki.com/topic/15509-releasealpha0-cyanogenmod-9-touchpad/


How are you getting on with this? I just got one from CEX for not much, still running the original WebOS. I'm pretty impressed with the hardware, bar the "retro" curved edges, but am looking to mod it into a usable Android tablet.


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## mack (Jan 6, 2015)

stuff_it said:


> How are you getting on with this? I just got one from CEX for not much, still running the original WebOS. I'm pretty impressed with the hardware, bar the "retro" curved edges, but am looking to mod it into a usable Android tablet.



Umm it's been in a box somewhere for longer than I can remember - that post was nearly three years ago!

I guess it still works - may find a use for it one day.


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## stuff_it (Jan 7, 2015)

mack said:


> Umm it's been in a box somewhere for longer than I can remember - that post was nearly three years ago!
> 
> I guess it still works - may find a use for it one day.


People still seem to be developing for them, largely for nerdly reasons. TBH I largely bought  it tp read comics on and keep the Mr out of my hair while I fix his computer...


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## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

Palm's not quite dead!


> Palm has always carried a lot of affect and emotions. That's why TCL has set the direction to rebuild the brand involving Palm's very own community, making it the largest scale crowd-sourced project ever seen in the industry.



http://www.androidcentral.com/palm-back-time-tcl-company



> *TCL Communication co-(re)creates Palm*
> (LAS VEGAS, January 6 2015) – Palm brand has always been synonymous with innovation throughout its history. As such it has consistently acted as a pioneer of mobile technologies. Now is the time to revive and bring back this pioneer spirit.
> 
> To do so, TCL Communication Technology Holdings Limited ("TCL Communication" or the "Company" which, together with its subsidiaries, is referred to as the "Group"; is very proud to announce that it will create a new Palm Inc., a US-based company that will take ownership of the Palm brand. New Palm Inc. will remain a truly Californian, Silicon Valley, based company leveraging on the talents and partnerships of the area.
> ...


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## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

LG is also working on a webOS watch!







http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/2/6888445/lg-webos-smartwatch


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