# 30 year old UK Maths teacher decamps to France with a 15 year old



## weltweit (Sep 24, 2012)

This is the 30 year old married Maths teacher and guitar player who has just eloped to France with a 15 year old pupil from his Maths class.

I doubt his marriage will survive, I doubt he will teach again, perhaps he will even be prosecuted as the girl is only 15.

They apparently had a return ticket but have not used the return part.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19704965


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## likesfish (Sep 24, 2012)

Hope to god this stupidity ends well


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## DexterTCN (Sep 24, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Hope to god this stupidity ends well


Well he's not going to kill her or anything.


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## Thora (Sep 24, 2012)

Hopefully he will be prosecuted.  Grooming and abusing a child isn't exactly an "oops".


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## weltweit (Sep 24, 2012)

Thora said:


> Hopefully he will be prosecuted. Grooming and abusing a child isn't exactly an "oops".


Well, we don't know that he has abused her, do we?


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## Thora (Sep 24, 2012)

Maybe he's just helping her with her French homework.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2012)

Thora said:


> Maybe he's just helping her with her French homework.


the sort of french he's helping her with they don't teach at gcse


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## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Hope to god this stupidity ends well


these things never do


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## twentythreedom (Sep 24, 2012)

His music is fucking shite too


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## weltweit (Sep 24, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> these things never do


Well it certainly is not going to end well for him.
When he gets back he will be a whole heap of trouble.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Well it certainly is not going to end well for him.
> When he gets back he will be a whole heap of trouble.


whereas she will get all the counselling she can stomach.


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## Thora (Sep 24, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Well it certainly is not going to end well for him.
> When he gets back he will be a whole heap of trouble.


You seem to be more concerned about him than the girl.


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## weltweit (Sep 24, 2012)

Thora said:


> You seem to be more concerned about him than the girl.


I can see it appearing that way, it was not intended.
I don't know what he was thinking.
Mind you, I don't know what she was thinking either.


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## Firky (Sep 24, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Well it certainly is not going to end well for him.
> When he gets back he will be a whole heap of trouble.


 
You make this sound like he's done a whoopsy-daisy. He's a nonce.


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## weltweit (Sep 24, 2012)

firky said:


> You make this sound like he's done a whoopsy-daisy. He's a nonce.


Yes, I suppose he is, she is only 15 so she is a child.


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## Thora (Sep 24, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I can see it appearing that way, it was not intended.
> I don't know what he was thinking.
> Mind you, I don't know what she was thinking either.


She is thinking she is in love with an exciting older man who is taking her on a romantic adventure.  He is thinking that months of grooming a 15 year old has paid off.  I hope the creepy perve brings her home safely.


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## Greebo (Sep 24, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Hope to god this stupidity ends well


Agreed, but highly unlikely.  If he'd at least waited until she was 16, it might have been slightly less bad for him, but he'd still be looking at having to find another teaching job (if he could) elsewhere.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 24, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I don't know what she was thinking either.


Rmance, infatuation,excitement, rebellion... that kind of thing.

The news reported that he wrote something about negotiating morality on his blog notlongbeforet hey disappeard so it would seem that he made a considered decision to run away with this young girl.


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## Greebo (Sep 24, 2012)

Thora said:


> She is thinking she is in love with an exciting older man who is taking her on a romantic adventure. He is thinking that months of grooming a 15 year old has paid off. I hope the creepy perve brings her home safely.


<devil's advocate>perhaps he enjoyed the boost to his ego?</devil's advocate>
That doesn't excuse it, but it may have been what caused him to do this.


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## weltweit (Sep 24, 2012)

..


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## wtfftw (Sep 24, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Agreed, but highly unlikely. If he'd at least waited until she was 16, it might have been slightly less bad for him, but he'd still be looking at having to find another teaching job (if he could) elsewhere.


I think he's have to wait until 18 as he's in a position of trust - although maybe not if he doesn't teach post gcse.


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 24, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Agreed, but highly unlikely. If he'd at least waited until she was 16, it might have been slightly less bad for him, but he'd still be looking at having to find another teaching job (if he could) elsewhere.


 
I thought it was a criminal offence to shag a 16/17 year old if you are in a 'position of authority' over them (or some such)

disclaimer- I don't know for certain that these two are shagging


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## Greebo (Sep 25, 2012)

wtfftw said:


> I think he's have to wait until 18 as he's in a position of trust - although maybe not if he doesn't teach post gcse.


Even waiting until 18 (there were a lot of October and November birthdays in that year's intake) caused an art teacher at my secondary school to leave under a cloud. Then again, at least he wasn't married.  And AFAIK the relationship only lasted 2 years in total.


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## weltweit (Sep 25, 2012)

OK I got the emphasis wrong from the very start of the thread.

The guy is a nonce, he should not have groomed a 15 year old school girl which was even worse because she was his student and she should have been able to trust her teacher. And he should not have taken her abroad without her parents permission. I hope he brings the girl back to the UK without harming her.


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## Frances Lengel (Sep 25, 2012)

Love's young dream.


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## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Her age isn't so much the issue for me, because I was having sex aged 15, the issue is that he was her teacher. He's in loco parentis and he took advantage of her.


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## DexterTCN (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Her age isn't so much the issue for me, because I was having sex aged 15, the issue is that he was her teacher. He's in loco parentis and he took advantage of her.


An intelligent teacher is not going to take advantage of a student in such a disastrous way, surely?   He'd shag her in the cupboard or something.


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## Greebo (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Her age isn't so much the issue for me, because I was having sex aged 15, the issue is that he was her teacher. He's in loco parentis and he took advantage of her.


Also old enough to know better, no matter what she may have done.


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## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

weltweit said:


> OK I got the emphasis wrong from the very start of the thread.
> 
> The guy is a nonce, he should not have groomed a 15 year old school girl which was even worse because she was his student and she should have been able to trust her teacher. And he should not have taken her abroad without her parents permission. I hope he brings the girl back to the UK without harming her.



He probably started grooming her before she was 15, which is inexcusable, he is a nonce.


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## IC3D (Sep 25, 2012)

We don't know he's shagged her though


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 25, 2012)

Darwin's Law claims another victim. [the teacher]


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## IC3D (Sep 25, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Darwin's Law claims another victim. [the teacher]


Is that when sex offenders have to announce their arrival on the Galapogas islands


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 25, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Is that when sex offenders have to announce their arrival on the Galapogas islands


 
Judging by that spelling, you should have spent less time leering at your biology teacher, and more time listening to her.


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## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

IC3D said:


> We don't know he's shagged her though



So he is only a nonce if he has raped her?


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## twistedAM (Sep 25, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> His music is fucking shite too


 
emo


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> So he is only a nonce if he has raped her?


 
I think in order to be a child molester, you have to do some molesting.


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## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> I think in order to be a child molester, you have to do some molesting.



You're a nonce if you objectively look for kiddy porn for sexual gratification.


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## IC3D (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> So he is only a nonce if he has raped her?


Who rattled your cage, I don't know the legal definition of nonce unfortunately


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 25, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Who rattled your cage, I don't know the legal definition of nonce unfortunately


 
I think it means child molester.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Her age isn't so much the issue for me, because I was having sex aged 15, the issue is that he was her teacher. He's in loco parentis and he took advantage of her.


I think the age gap is significant. Even if the sex is informed and consentual, why on earth would a thirty year old man want to have sex with a fifteen year old girl? Such age gaps might be ok in older people but not or girls so young.


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## extra dry (Sep 25, 2012)

He would/should not be allowed back in to a class room.


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## trashpony (Sep 25, 2012)

extra dry said:


> He would/should not be allowed back in to a class room.


He won't be.


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## Jazzz (Sep 25, 2012)

Thread title is not the way around I would expect. Isn't it the fifteen-year old's welfare we are to be most concerned about?


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## Pingu (Sep 25, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Thread title is not the way around I would expect. Isn't it the fifteen-year old's welfare we are to be most concerned about?


 
read the thread then?

anyhoo

i can never understand stuff like this. even if genuinely in love then its never going to work. of course that is best case scenario and the nonce/grooming thing is well creepy


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## Jazzz (Sep 25, 2012)

oh sorry.   It's late and I can't sleep.


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## Pingu (Sep 25, 2012)

me neither. some twat decided it was necesary to phone me at 4:30 to ask me a question that could have waited until after my bacon butty. now i cant get back to sleep...


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## trashpony (Sep 25, 2012)

I woke up at 2am and haven't been able to get back to sleep. And I have to get up in 25 minutes so there's not much point now


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pingu said:


> read the thread then?
> 
> anyhoo
> 
> i can never understand stuff like this. even if genuinely in love then its never going to work. of course that is best case scenario and the nonce/grooming thing is well creepy


 
It's almost like a death wish. He has to know that he will be caught. In this day and age, these people simply do not get away with it.


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## Pingu (Sep 25, 2012)

exactly.

if both are genuinely in love (and it could happen) then wait until the minor is 18 and you are no longer in a position of trust - find a diff job and wait. cos even if it is genuine love and you dont do this its doomed and you will end up with a close friend called mad mick the mad axe murdering madman for a couple of years.


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## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

Exactly the whole thing is icky and hes going to jail no excuse .
 He's a teacher she's 15 no excuse.
Hes also 30 years old sex case sex case hang im hang im


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## SaskiaJayne (Sep 25, 2012)

Age of consent in France is 15 but they do have similar law to UK regarding sexual relations between teachers/students, so it will be interesting to see if the French cops do arrest him or not.


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## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Yeah fair enough 15 year age gap is significant


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## _angel_ (Sep 25, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Agreed, but highly unlikely. If he'd at least waited until she was 16, it might have been slightly less bad for him, but he'd still be looking at having to find another teaching job (if he could) elsewhere.


Even if she was 18 and his pupil it would still be illegal.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 25, 2012)

He's a teacher, he's married, she's 15, what a total fail at preventing your cock from ruling your head.  According to the tabloids it's been going on for months and pupils alerted staff ages ago.
His poor wife, I mean all I can think when I read about this is, 'what a twat.'  They haven't even been married that long.


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## miniGMgoit (Sep 25, 2012)

Oh no. Not a guitar player!


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## hegley (Sep 25, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> Even if she was 18 and his pupil it would still be illegal.


No it wouldn't be; it may well be a disciplinary offence but it's not illegal.


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## Part 2 (Sep 25, 2012)

My mate's dad was the caretaker at a school and left his wife and job for a 15 year old. They were together for a long time though not sure about now.

When he left her I slept with my mates Mum. I was 15 too.

I've not read much about this case other than some cringeworthy blog entries but the fella sounds like he's having a bit of a depressive episode where romantic notions take over thoughts of what everyone else sees as a clear case of right and wrong. I wouldn't class him as a nonce as such.


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## _angel_ (Sep 25, 2012)

hegley said:


> No it wouldn't be; it may well be a disciplinary offence but it's not illegal.


not sure but I think it's different for a teacher of a pupil still at school, I think people have been done for it.


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## King Biscuit Time (Sep 25, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Yes, I suppose he is, she is only 15 so she is a child.


 
Not only a child, but a child over whom he had a position of responsibility and power and trust. Even if he hasn't physically abused her, he has abused the trust she put in him.


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## AverageJoe (Sep 25, 2012)

I cant help but feel that her parents know more about this than they are letting on


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## Part 2 (Sep 25, 2012)

hegley said:


> No it wouldn't be; it may well be a disciplinary offence but it's not illegal.


 
Abuse of position of trust comes under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 and includes under 18s, not just those under the age of consent.

ETA: Just read the thread. I think you are right unless of course the over 18 has other vulnerability factors, learning difficulty, mental health issues etc


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## rubbershoes (Sep 25, 2012)

any French speakers here?

what's the french for nonce?


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## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> not sure but I think it's different for a teacher of a pupil still at school, I think people have been done for it.


 
i think so to - was the law not changed so that in a case where the older person was in a position of 'trust and authority' over the younger person, the age of consent was raised to 18, not 16?

so if two 16 yo kids want to go at it hammer and tongs they can, but if a 23yo teacher and a 16yo pupil want to do the deed, the law says that because of the teachers ability to influence the 16yo, the pupil cannot give consent until they are 18.

is that right?


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## The39thStep (Sep 25, 2012)

Is he known in anarchists circles or is he a cleanskin?


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## friedaweed (Sep 25, 2012)

rubbershoes said:


> any French speakers here?
> 
> what's the french for nonce?


Le Nonseh.

He's Donald ducked.

Career gone, definitely going to do bird sex offenders register for life and probably banned from returning to the area once he gets out. Assuming they've had woopie .Worse of all a young woman's life ruined by someone who was entrusted to care for her.


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## hegley (Sep 25, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> not sure but I think it's different for a teacher of a pupil still at school, I think people have been done for it.


Only if they're under 18.


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## Dan U (Sep 25, 2012)

looks like concerns had previously been expressed to the school and local authority after a school trip.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/25/missing-megan-summers-sent-text


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## Part 2 (Sep 25, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Is he known in anarchists circles or is he a cleanskin?


 
He's got a black star tattoo!

(whatever that means)


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## The Octagon (Sep 25, 2012)

> It has emerged that concerns were expressed to another teacher about their relationship, following a school trip to *Los Angeles* in February.


 
Perhaps not the most important detail in the story, but school trips have _changed_.

What happened to an all expenses coach trip to Lyme Regis?


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## purves grundy (Sep 25, 2012)

Dan U said:


> looks like concerns had previously been expressed to the school and local authority after a school trip.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/25/missing-megan-summers-sent-text


Christ how can that have happened and fuck all been done about it?


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## Dan U (Sep 25, 2012)

purves grundy said:


> Christ how can that have happened and fuck all been done about it?


 
my thoughts also. serious case review beckons...


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## felixthecat (Sep 25, 2012)

Pingu said:


> exactly.
> 
> if both are genuinely in love (and it could happen) then wait until the minor is 18 and you are no longer in a position of trust - find a diff job and wait.


This is what happened to a teacher and a girl in my school. He left, kept the relationship simmering and moved in together as soon as she left school. 
Their youngest kid has just graduated uni.....


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## mrs quoad (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Yeah fair enough 15 year age gap is significant


Half your age times two, instead of the more traditional half your age plus seven...


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## albionism (Sep 25, 2012)

Los Angeles!!!! We got Barry Island!


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## purves grundy (Sep 25, 2012)

The stream bit on the 'Jeremy Ayre' myspace page makes for interesting reading

http://www.myspace.com/jeremyayre


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## Dan U (Sep 25, 2012)

bbrrr


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## Wolveryeti (Sep 25, 2012)

The French love paedos. He will fit right in.


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## blossie33 (Sep 25, 2012)

felixthecat said:


> This is what happened to a teacher and a girl in my school. He left, kept the relationship simmering and moved in together as soon as she left school.
> Their youngest kid has just graduated uni.....


 
Yes, happened at my school too and that was back in the mid 60's. She was over 16 then though.
There was also a female teacher at my school who was going out with a sixth former from the boys school.
I don't find it particularly 'shocking' as was quoted in some article, it happens. People are attracted to each other whatever the ages.

Not that I am saying it's ok to take things that far of course.


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## Pingu (Sep 25, 2012)

Wolveryeti said:


> The French love paedos. He will fit right in.


 
thats belgians isnt it?


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## claphamboy (Sep 25, 2012)

Pingu said:


> thats belgians isnt it?


 
No, they love chocolates.


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## FabricLiveBaby! (Sep 25, 2012)

My mate was a witness in one of these cases.  She was 16 at the time too and at a boarding school.  One of the teachers was shagging a student (a mate of hers), and when they got found out the girl tried to get out of trouble by accusing the teacher of sexual assault.

They had been in a non-sexual relationship for years and the girl had been divulging the whole affair to my friend.  She stood up for the teacher in court, and the teacher "got off" as far as you can "get off" in these things.  I don't think he got a jail term.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> An intelligent teacher is not going to take advantage of a student in such a disastrous way, surely? He'd shag her in the cupboard or something.


Exactly. Whatever the circumstances there is a serious case of not holding back going on there. That's not normal. 
When something not sane happens, it makes you worry. This not sane guy runs off with your daughter, well it's going to make you wonder if he does something more insane.


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## sim667 (Sep 25, 2012)

At my college the art teacher ended up marrying a student.....

no-one even blinked an eyelid when he was her teacher, and I believe he still teaches there.


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## Wolveryeti (Sep 25, 2012)

Pingu said:


> thats belgians isnt it?


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## sim667 (Sep 25, 2012)

I just read the article..... I thought he was a proper teacher, but he was just giving her tuition...... Not that it makes it any better, but if anything it should land the school in deep shit as they've clearly failed the girl.

I bet the honeymoon period will wear off when he realises quite how immature she is, and she realises how boring thirty year olds are. SHe'll come back tail between her legs, and he'll fuck off to asia for fear of being locked up for noncing. I reckon anyway.


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## Pingu (Sep 25, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> No, they love chocolates.


 
chips with mayo surely?


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## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

Just shows you dont know where your children are safe. I just think he is incredibly immature emotionally. He must be to try and justify himself.


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## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

rubbershoes said:


> any French speakers here?
> 
> what's the french for nonce?


 
Nôncé.


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## purves grundy (Sep 25, 2012)

He is a maths teacher at her school - although I haven't read whether he was _her_ teacher or not - but also does extra tuition.


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## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> His poor wife, I mean all I can think when I read about this is, 'what a twat.' They haven't even been married that long.


 
This reminds me of what happened at my old school. He had only been married to the French teacher a short time when he decided to get into a really dodgy relationship.


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## Fruitloop (Sep 25, 2012)

Not really noncing with a 15-year-old is it? Hardly on a par with fiddling with toddler winkies.


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## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Fruitloop said:


> Not really noncing with a 15-year-old is it? Hardly on a par with fiddling with toddler winkies.


No.  On a sliding scale of noncery, it would appear to be towards the less serious end.  Still an awful abuse of trust/position, worthy of condemnation, though.


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## youngian (Sep 25, 2012)

There are plenty of teen bride who have reached their silver and golden wedding anniversaries with a decade or so age gap with the husband.
If he had kept his hands to himself for a couple of terms and applied for a position in another school he could of lived happy ever after. What a difference a few months make, silly silly man.


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## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

The last three posts seem to be taking no account of power relations.


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## felixthecat (Sep 25, 2012)

youngian said:


> There are plenty of teen bride who have reached their silver and golden wedding anniversaries with a decade or so age gap with the husband.
> If he had kept his hands to himself for a couple of terms and applied for a position in another school he could of lived happy ever after. What a difference a few months make, silly silly man.


 
That assumes he thinks like an emotionally mature adult. Unfortunately he appears to be thinking like he's 15. Not a nonce but not quite right in the head either.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2012)

youngian said:


> What a difference a few months make, silly silly man.


 
She'd be all grown up.


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## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

ive just listened to one of his songs on his website. 

if he's playing that kind of stuff to her on his car stereo that in itself should be punishable.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

Chip Barm said:


> I wouldn't class him as a nonce as such.


 
if it walks like a nonce and talks like a nonce, i'd not be ashamed to suggest it's a nonce.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

Chip Barm said:


> He's got a black star tattoo!
> 
> (whatever that means)


 
hipster teacher


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## miniGMgoit (Sep 25, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> I cant help but feel that her parents know more about this than they are letting on


Well from what I've read they knew something was up re: the field trip to LA. Sounds like everyone knew what was going on. I wonder how his wife is feeling?


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## maldwyn (Sep 25, 2012)

> *30 year old UK Maths teacher wrecks his life over a 15 year old!!*


 
Is this one of those trolling thread titles we hear so much about?
Gets me irritated whenever I see it.


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## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> ive just listened to one of his songs on his website.
> 
> if he's playing that kind of stuff to her on his car stereo that in itself should be punishable.


His repertoire on repeat as she continually asks "are we nearly there yet?"


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> No, they love chocolates.


 
so does my mum, does that mean she's a nonce?


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## felixthecat (Sep 25, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Exactly. Whatever the circumstances there is a serious case of not holding back going on there. That's not normal.
> When something not sane happens, it makes you worry. This not sane guy runs off with your daughter, well it's going to make you wonder if he does something more insane.


 
This is the concerning bit. He's behaving like they are some sort of modern day Romeo and Juliet, starcrossed lovers and all that guff.
Unfortunately we know what happened to them and in my mind that where the control element starts to get rather worrying.


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## Sasaferrato (Sep 25, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Yes, I suppose he is, she is only 15 so she is a child.


 
The age of consent in Portugal is 12.

It will end badly, he'll be lucky if he stays out of jail.

One must assume that the girl went willingly, but it is of course abuse of position etc on his part. Why on earth did he do it? Had they waited until the girl was 16 and had left school, then they would have been OK ( I think, no doubt someone will tell me if there is an ' ongoing ' responsibility on his part '  ).

It no doubt seems very romantic and exciting at the moment, that bubble will burst when the cops lift him at Dover on the way back.


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## Thora (Sep 25, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Is this one of those trolling thread titles we hear so much about?
> Gets me irritated whenever I see it.


I know, it reads like this 15 year old has lead him astray, he was powerless to resist her.


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## miniGMgoit (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> The last three posts seem to be taking no account of power relations.


.


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## miniGMgoit (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> His repertoire on repeat as she continually asks "are we nearly there yet?"


 so much win there


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## joustmaster (Sep 25, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> The age of consent in Portugal is 12.


no it isn't


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## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

it's 12 in the vatican tho i think. conveniently.


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## joustmaster (Sep 25, 2012)

the age of consent in the UK is 18, if the partner is a teacher


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## purves grundy (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> it's 12 in the vatican tho i think. conveniently.


almost - 1.2 iirc


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## Jackobi (Sep 25, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> The age of consent in Portugal is 12.


 
You should check your facts before making such a statement.


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## joustmaster (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> it's 12 in the vatican tho i think. conveniently.


nope. same as italy. 14


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## purves grundy (Sep 25, 2012)

No age of consent in some Middle Eastern countries e.g. Saudi, as sex outsde marriage is strictly illegal. So everything hinges on the age of marriage... and there's no lower age limit or other restrictions on that.

Anyway, the issue here is the abuse of trust rather than whether she's a consenting adult or not. As pointed out above sexual relations between teacher and students under 18 is illegal, under breach of trust legislation.


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## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> The last three posts seem to be taking no account of power relations.


 
Hold on, I condemned his behaviour in that very basis; when I referred to his position, it was a comment on the relative power imbalance between a teacher and a 15 year old pupil.


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## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

It wont be long before they are picked up


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

Thora said:


> I know, it reads like this 15 year old has lead him astray, he was powerless to resist her.


 
those sluts


----------



## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

purves grundy said:


> ...Anyway, the issue here is the abuse of trust rather than whether she's a consenting adult or not. As pointed out above sexual relations between teacher and students under 18 is illegal, under breach of trust legislation.


 
question: lets say he takes her to a country where she can give consent, they do the deed, and in that country at least, its legal, he's not a nonce etc..

whats the score with the UK legislation that allows the UK to prosecute those who go on kiddy-fiddling 'holidays' to Thailand and the like - even though the kiddy-fiddling did not occur in the UK? how does that mesh with the rights of UK citizens to go elsewhere in the EU and do things that are legal in X country, but not in the UK?

feel sorry for the wife tbh...


----------



## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> Hold on, I condemned his behaviour in that very basis; when I referred to his position, it was a comment on the relative power imbalance between a teacher and a 15 year old pupil.


 
It was the "less serious" I was I was referring to. I think there a lot of downplaying going on because of her age.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

its not a violent kidnap but the again its not rational behaviour by anything approaching adult.
  School should have slapped him down hard at the first hint of a relantionship.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

likesfish said:


> its not a violent kidnap but the again its not rational behaviour by anything approaching adult.
> School should have slapped him down hard at the first hint of a relantionship.


 
Completely agree. However, now he has her to himself you dont know what his mind is getting up too.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> so does my mum, does that mean she's a nonce?




That depends do you know if she ever licked a nolan?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

i'll ask.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> It was the "less serious" I was I was referring to. I think there a lot of downplaying going on because of her age.


 
In my opinion, if it is consensual, it is less serious than if it was with, say, a five year old.  Because although she's not legally able to consent, the reality is that she is far nearer to being able to understand what is going on and to refuse  his advances than a much younger child would be.  I am not saying that what he has done isn't appalling, or blaming her, though.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> In my opinion, if it is consensual, it is less serious than if it was with, say, a five year old. Because although she's not legally able to consent, the reality is that she is far nearer to being able to understand what is going on and to refuse his advances than a much younger child would be. I am not saying that what he has done isn't appalling, or blaming her, though.


Did you know what you were doing at 15? At 30 he definately does


----------



## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> In my opinion, if it is consensual, it is less serious than if it was with, say, a five year old. Because although she's not legally able to consent, the reality is that she is far nearer to being able to understand what is going on and to refuse his advances than a much younger child would be. I am not saying that what he has done isn't appalling, or blaming her, though.


 
"Refuse his advances" - yes, that works so well in our society. Especially when people are teenagers.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> Did you know what you were doing at 15? At 30 he definately does


 
No, at 15 I didn't understand the world in the same way that I do now.  But I had more of an idea at 15 than I did when I was five.  That really was the sum total of my point - that there's a sliding scale of seriousness, in respect of which age is one of the factors.  As I've already said, I'm not excusing him or blaming her.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> In my opinion, if it is consensual, it is less serious than if it was with, say, a five year old. Because although she's not legally able to consent, the reality is that she is far nearer to being able to understand what is going on and to refuse his advances than a much younger child would be. I am not saying that what he has done isn't appalling, or blaming her, though.


 
That sounds rather close to victim blaming to me. Why didn't you scream? Why didn't you push him off? I just hope that she comes back home ok and that later on she doesn't rethink what's happened and feel used.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> "Refuse his advances" - yes, that works so well in our society. Especially when people are teenagers.


 
So you don't think a victim's age has any significance in a case of consensual underage sex? Do you think sex with a 15 year and 29 day old is as serious an offence as sex with a three year old?


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

No... Im sorry. He is fully taking advantage of an immature girl, no matter how mature she thinks she is


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm glad this thread has taken a less hysterical tone.  Obviously he's abused his power here, and should be punished, but I'm not sure how just saying he's a nonce helps the discussion.

I know a guy who is a teacher and is in his 30s (I think he's 31/32) and he recently started seeing a girl who he used to teach.  She was 18 when he told us about the relationship, but our circle of friends (myself included) obviously suspected there might have been something going on before she stopped being a student.

Now, from what a few people have commented, he should have waited until she was 18 and then all's good?  Even if he did that, he'd be under suspicion, as my friend was.  So I guess the answer is not "wait until she's old enough" but "back the fuck away".


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> it's 12 in the vatican tho i think. conveniently.


 
This is actually, believe it or not.


----------



## youngian (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> ive just listened to one of his songs on his website.
> 
> if he's playing that kind of stuff to her on his car stereo that in itself should be punishable.


 
Although he already spanks her regularly for being a naughty little strumpet.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> No... Im sorry. He is fully taking advantage of an immature girl, no matter how mature she thinks she is


 
I agree that he is taking advantage, and should be condemned for that.  I said that right at the beginning.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> I agree that he is taking advantage, and should be condemned for that. I said that right at the beginning.


 
Ah ok, just pushing my opinion also


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Good article here which I largely agree with except the bit where it says he's a paedophile. Wrong word, because 15 is definitely post-puberty.

http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2012/09/lessons-in-life.html


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

likesfish said:


> its not a violent kidnap but the again its not rational behaviour by anything approaching adult.
> School should have slapped him down hard at the first hint of a relantionship.


 
Maybe the 'school slapping him down hard' made them take flight?


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2012)

youngian said:


> Although he already spanks her regularly for being a naughty little strumpet.


i'm no prude, but isn't this a bit distasteful?


----------



## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> So you don't think a victim's age has any significance in a case of consensual underage sex?


 
You've contradicted yourself there.


----------



## Thora (Sep 25, 2012)

I believe the term is hebephilia when it is adolescent girls.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> You've contradicted yourself there.


No I haven't; I asked you a question.  I'll rephrase it: do you think that the victims age makes any difference to the seriousness of the offence?  For instance, is sex with a three year old as serious an offence as sex with someone on the cusp of turning 16?


----------



## Thora (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I'm glad this thread has taken a less hysterical tone. Obviously he's abused his power here, and should be punished, but I'm not sure how just saying he's a nonce helps the discussion.
> 
> I know a guy who is a teacher and is in his 30s (I think he's 31/32) and he recently started seeing a girl who he used to teach. She was 18 when he told us about the relationship, but our circle of friends (myself included) obviously suspected there might have been something going on before she stopped being a student.
> 
> Now, from what a few people have commented, he should have waited until she was 18 and then all's good? Even if he did that, he'd be under suspicion, as my friend was. So I guess the answer is not "wait until she's old enough" but "back the fuck away".


A 30 something going out with a teenager is always going to be a bit  but there's a big difference between 18 and 15.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> No I haven't; I asked you a question. I'll rephrase it: do you think that the victims age makes any difference to the seriousness of the offence? For instance, is sex with a three year old as serious an offence as sex with someone on the cusp of turning 16?


 
what the fuck has raping a 3 year old got to do with this?


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

If you are having sex with a CHILD that is under 16, you are a peado... plain and simple.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

sim667 said:


> At my college the art teacher ended up marrying a student.....
> 
> no-one even blinked an eyelid when he was her teacher, and I believe he still teaches there.


Yep my college tutor married her student. She now has a daughter with him who goes to my daughters school. I remember the guy used to wait for the lecturer, spinning in her office chair till she arrived, her was a weedy 17 year old and her a woman of nearly 40. They still seem very happy together tbf and she still holds down the same job. It's almost as if because of her sex, she wasn't punished for it but I still think it was a little iffy.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> If you are having sex with a CHILD that is under 16, you are a peado... plain and simple.


 
You know that they have had sex then?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Thora said:


> I believe the term is hebephilia when it is adolescent girls.


It's pointless throwing words like this around.  Especially when it's wrong.  The term for a sexual preference of girls her age is ephebophilia.

But you don't know he prefers girls her age.  He has an older wife, too.  Maybe this is a one off?  Maybe he actually _is_ a paedophile?  Who knows?

Once he's correctly labelled, then what?


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (Sep 25, 2012)

Spoiler








Sorry  song seemed quite fitting.

Some people may consider 15 to be old enough to make a conscious decision, but who knows how long he has been grooming her for.

Now if it was a female teacher it would be a whole different story


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 25, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> If you are having sex with a CHILD that is under 16, you are a peado... plain and simple.


 
That's not the case though - A paedophile is attracted specifically to prepubescent children.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 25, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> That's not the case though - A paedophile is attracted specifically to prepubescent children.


 
I think you are refining the word peadophile, like all things like this there are different levels and desires.


----------



## girasol (Sep 25, 2012)

A friend of mine ran away from home when she was 15, he was in his late 20s.  She got pregnant after a couple of months, he left her with the child (who was severely disabled) a couple of years later...

This was over 20 years ago.  I don't think she regrets any of it as it's what happened to her, but she must wonder how different things would have been if she hadn't ran away with him (this was in a different country by the way, but, even I, being 14 at the time, thought her moving in with him wasn't a great idea).


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> what the fuck has raping a 3 year old got to do with this?


 
I made a comment about there being a sliding scale of seriousness, depending on the parties' ages, with which others seem to have taken issue.  I used the example of a three year old, by way of contrast with someone on the cusp of 16, to demonstrate how the victims' age is a factor in assessing seriousness: I think most people would agrees that (all other things being equal) persuading a three year old to let you have sex with them is rather more serious than persuading a 15 year old (albeit that they are both wrong).


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Yep my college tutor married her student. She now has a daughter with him who goes to my daughters school. I remember the guy used to wait for the lecturer, spinning in her office chair till she arrived, her was a weedy 17 year old and her a woman of nearly 40. They still seem very happy together tbf and she still holds down the same job. It's almost as if because of her sex, she wasn't punished for it but I still think it was a little iffy.


 
There's a definite male-female divide on their issue, imo.

I almost lost my virginity to a _much_ older women when I was 18.  Everyone was saying how close I was to the ultimate fantasy, etc.

If the situation was reversed, so I was an 18 year old virgin girl, the guy could've been 10 years younger than my lady friend and he would be squarely in the almost-a-nonce category of public opinion.


----------



## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> I made a comment about there being a sliding scale of seriousness, depending on the parties' ages, with which others seem to have taken issue. I used the example of a three year old, by way of contrast with someone on the cusp of 16, to demonstrate how the victims' age is a factor in assessing seriousness: I think most people would agrees that (all other things being equal) persuading a three year old to let you have sex with them is rather more serious than persuading a 15 year old (albeit that they are both wrong).


 
You believe that the older people are the less seriously the abuse perpetrated against them should be taken?


----------



## girasol (Sep 25, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> If you are having sex with a CHILD that is under 16, you are a peado... plain and simple.


 
What if they lied about their age?  Some 15 year olds look grown up.


----------



## felixthecat (Sep 25, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> If you are having sex with a CHILD that is under 16, you are a peado... plain and simple.


 
Slightly hysterical and definitely incorrect. See what Frances said.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2012)

Where is shippy lurking these days


----------



## sim667 (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Yep my college tutor married her student. She now has a daughter with him who goes to my daughters school. I remember the guy used to wait for the lecturer, spinning in her office chair till she arrived, her was a weedy 17 year old and her a woman of nearly 40. They still seem very happy together tbf and she still holds down the same job. It's almost as if because of her sex, she wasn't punished for it but I still think it was a little iffy.



I think it's more common than people realise. 

If a daily mail journo gets whiff of this thread, then the headline tomorrow will blates be 'PAEDO BRITAIN!'


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

He's 30 ffs even if the " brazen hussy" is throwing herself at him she's 15 you get the fuck out of the situation and report it.
  Even I figured that out and I'm me   eventually after I had cottoned on to what was going on 
  Did not work with that group again thank fuck I avoided the residential no way would that have gone well


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> You believe that the older people are the less seriously the abuse perpetrated against them should be taken?


 
If the abuse is based on them being too young, why not? Also, this is what happens in law.  So I don't think he/she is holding a controversial opinion.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> You believe that the older people are the less seriously the abuse perpetrated against them should be taken?


 
No. That's not what I said. But I do believe that, in a case of apparant consent, a victim's age is a relevant factor in assesing the seriousness. Don't you? What about the example I gave? Do you belie that sex with someone a day before they turn 16 is as serious an offence as sex with, say, a three year old? Because that's where your absolutist reasoning seems to be heading.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

girasol said:


> What if they lied about their age? Some 15 year olds look grown up.


----------



## girasol (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, this case is different as he knew her age, was more thinking of one-night stands...


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Badgers said:


>


wtf 

Is this a "guess her age" post? Or something more creepy?

edit: I just image-searched it.  Didn't realise this was the girl in question.  Apologies.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

He was a teacher at the school so not like he picked her up in a nightclub not that that would be much of an excuse.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> wtf
> 
> Is this a "guess her age" post? Or something more creepy?


 
No, that is a photo of Megan Stammers from the most recent BBC article.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

Badgers isn't creepy.


----------



## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> No. That's not what I said. But I do believe that, in a case of apparant consent, a victim's age is a reevant factor in assesing the seriousness. Don't you? What about the example I gave? Do you belie that sex with someone a day before they turn 16 is as serious an offence as sex with, say, a three year old? Because that's where your absolutist reasoning seems to be heading.


 
I see no reason to take age into account in cases of abuse and coercion for the reason that it can open the case up to victim blaming "she was 15, she should have known better" etc.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Badgers said:


> No, that is a photo of Megan Stammers from the most recent BBC article.


 
Sorry, see edit above!


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> Badgers isn't creepy.


He's on the cull list anyway


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

She may be close to the age of consent and I wouldn't call him a paedo exactly but the first time he realised he was attracted to her or she showed interest, he should have fucking backed the fuck off. I bet he will use the excuse it was love at first sight or some bullshit  She might have womanly qualities but she IS still a naive child and easily influenced. He knowingly groomed her and then lured her away from her parents, leaving them rightfully worried sick. If that was my daughter I would want his testicles as earrings


----------



## girasol (Sep 25, 2012)

Also, I think she looks very young, any adult fancying her would be wise to make sure she wasn't under age...


----------



## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

She looks 15. Her age actually isn't so much of an issue tho imo - it's the fact that he was her teacher. Totally inappropriate.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> I see no reason to take age into account in cases of abuse and coercion for the reason that it can open the case up to victim blaming "she was 15, she should have known better" etc.


So you see the two offences as equally serious?


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

likesfish said:


> He's on the cull list anyway


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2012)

In respect to the picture of the lass in question,

Think its slightly creepy that some views I've hear  are going well she does not look like a child


----------



## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

Thora said:


> I believe the term is hebephilia when it is adolescent girls.


 
depends, to be crude, on her 'development'.

Ephebophilia appears to be being attracted to Adolescents, rather than Hebephilia, which is being atteacted to Pubescents - and the difference is the stage of their physical developments. an Adolescent female usually _appears_ fully capable of having sex, conceiving and giving birth to a subsequent child, where as a Pubescent may, or may not.

the grotty truth - to a man with two daughters - is that in biological terms, Ephebophilia is 'normal'. to be attracted to an Adolescent is to be attracted to what looks like a fully grown, child-bearing woman. she might say 'OMG' a lot, a listen to crap music, and be unable to hold a converstation that any 30yo male would be interested in listening to, but in biological terms, there's nothing 'eeuw' about it.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

How 'old she looks' is utterly irrelevant  he was her teacher and knew perfectly well how old she is and that what he was doing was wrong


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Not trying to make light of the whole horrible affair but I bet is wife is having a bloody hard time


----------



## Greebo (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> There's a definite male-female divide on their issue, imo.
> 
> I almost lost my virginity to a _much_ older women when I was 18. Everyone was saying how close I was to the ultimate fantasy, etc.
> 
> If the situation was reversed, so I was an 18 year old virgin girl, the guy could've been 10 years younger than my lady friend and he would be squarely in the almost-a-nonce category of public opinion.


Yes, but you were over the age of consent.


----------



## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> So you see the two offences as equally serious?


 
In some ways yes*. You can't be absolved of some of the responsibility of not sleeping with children just because that child happens to be in his/her teens.

*still working my way through my thinking on this one.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

Probably dressed up for prom night or something similar looks older in the photo.
 He's a creepy immature fuck whose in a world of shit because he let his dick do "absouletly no thinking at all"


----------



## felixthecat (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> I see no reason to take age into account in cases of abuse and coercion for the reason that it can open the case up to victim blaming "she was 15, she should have known better" etc.


 
I can't see anyone doing that - slightly OTT. I think it more that people can understand to some extent someone fancying a 15 years old, but find the thought of being attacted to a pre-pubescent child completely incomprehensible as well as abhorrent. She's physically adult even tho she isn't psychologically.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Yes, but you were over the age of consent.


 
True, but if I was 15 and she was a bit younger, the same attitude would have be held towards me.  Where the reverse situation then would go even more hysterical than my hypothetical situation.


----------



## felixthecat (Sep 25, 2012)

likesfish said:


> He's a creepy immature fuck whose in a world of shit because he let his dick do "absouletly no thinking at all"


 
A relatively good summation.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> She looks 15. Her age actually isn't so much of an issue tho imo - it's the fact that he was her teacher. Totally inappropriate.





weepiper said:


> How 'old she looks' is utterly irrelevant  he was her teacher and knew perfectly well how old she is and that what he was doing was wrong


 
These! As the article that weeps posted earlier says he was acting "in loco parentis" and was in a position of trust. That makes it a simple "no" on his part no matter how old she looks, how mature she is etc...those are of no consequence, his position as her teacher/tutor is.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> In some ways yes. You can't be absolved of some of the responsibility of not sleeping with children just because that child happens to be in his/her teens.


 
"In some ways..." implies that, in other ways you don't.  What are those other ways?

And I agree that the victim's age doesn't absolve you of responsibility; from the very first I said that it was an abuse which should be condemned.


----------



## Garek (Sep 25, 2012)

felixthecat said:


> I can't see anyone doing that - slightly OTT. I think it more that people can understand to some extent someone fancying a 15 years old, but find the thought of being attacted to a pre-pubescent child completely incomprehensible as well as abhorrent. She's physically adult even tho she isn't psychologically.


 
I wasn't saying that people on this thread were saying that more thinking of societal reactions.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

QueenOfGoths said:


> These! As the article that weeps posted earlier says he was acting "in loco parentis" and was in a position of trust. That makes it a simple "no" on his part no matter how old she looks, how mature she is etc...those are of no consequence, his position as her teacher/tutor is.


 
Exactly. There's nothing wrong with him for fancying her, she is physically adult, but there is something very very wrong with him for acting on that attraction


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

> Police were made aware of concerns about Megan Stammers and her relationship with married maths teacher Jeremy Forrest before the couple went missing last week.


 



> A spokesman from East Sussex County Council has admitted that the school was aware of concerns about the teacher's relationship with Megan but refused to confirm when these were first raised.
> 
> He said: "The investigation was ongoing when she went missing. The school, in conjunction with the county council and the police, had been addressing concerns that had been raised on this matter.”


 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...knew-about-affair-with-teacher-last-week.html


----------



## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

just found this gem while reading the mail's take on this..

as you were.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ant-tries-sneak-Spain-disguised-CAR-SEAT.html


----------



## Das Uberdog (Sep 25, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> If you are having sex with a CHILD that is under 16, you are a peado... plain and simple.


 
technically you'd be an ephebophile. pyschologically speaking, attraction to post-pubescents is considered seperate to paedophilia. even ephebophilia would only be an accurate term if this guy showed a consistent _preference_ for recently post-pubescents - which he may or may not do.

i don't think throwing around paedo terminology helps understand what's happened here. it's a sleazy and pathetic abuse of power, plain and simple. the kind of sad-sack bloke who evidently, by the age of 30, still hasn't realised how easy it is to impress a young girl with his apparent array of 'life experience' (which i also, evidently, chronically lacking) and one of many sad cases where a lass has confused age for maturity.

i know two girls in college, both 17 at the time but who had been dating their boyfriends (27 and 30 respectively) for at least a year or so. both of them were so fucking chuffed about it you wouldn't believe, really thought they were _it_ for bagging someone so mature. obv. the boyfriends were oddball lowlifes and the whole thing was sleazy as hell - though ultimately it was just one of those things. to be fair to both of them, i could always think of many adult couples who were less happy and less well matched than both of them despite it being fucked up.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 25, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Not trying to make light of the whole horrible affair but I bet is wife is having a bloody hard time


Yeah, I feel sorry for her too poor woman


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

Having some 15 year old girl make a pass at you at was 28 and doing outwood bounding stuff with her school
 The thoughts that ran through my mind .
 Was you are fucking joking ? 
 No your serious? Have you no taste at all you poor fool and deeply embarrassing.
 Reporting the whole thing was que much hilarity for the team


----------



## Guineveretoo (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Good article here which I largely agree with except the bit where it says he's a paedophile. Wrong word, because 15 is definitely post-puberty.
> 
> http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2012/09/lessons-in-life.html


15 is not necessarily post-puberty, although I agree that the word "paedophile" may not be the correct one in terms of it being a sexual attraction to a child who is not sexually mature.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> 15 is not necessarily post-puberty, although I agree that the word "paedophile" may not be the correct one in terms of it being a sexual attraction to a child who is not sexually mature.


 
It would be very unusual not to have reached puberty at 15 as a girl these days. Average age to begin puberty is 11.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

The thing that's annoying me about this is, if we weren't so quick to label everyone as a 'paedo scumbag', then maybe there's a chance he'd come back to England with her and get an appropriate punishment*, and get her back home and in school.  But as it is, he's unlikely to ever come back and because of that, will probably be brainwashing her to stay with him - he's effectively lost everything now, so has nothing to lose by coercing her to stay (even if it was previously consensual).

*I'm not sure what appropriate punishment means, here.  I'm still thinking this situation through myself.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Not that anyone here wants to be in his position but I certainly would not rush to turn myself in if I was. He will do jail time for sure and doubt many (if any) people will stand by him after this.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Not that anyone here wants to be in his position but I certainly would not rush to turn myself in if I was. He will do jail time for sure and doubt many (if any) people will stand by him after this.


 
That's the point I was making above.  He's now fully committed because of the consequences of coming home.  That means a rational response is unlikely.  Which all means bad news for the girl.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

I am not one of those people who fears paedos on every corner or anything but having a girl of ten has been a fucking eye opener for me tbh. She is very slim and only has the beginnings of breasts and is obviously still, very much a skinny lil pre-pubescent girl. But when we walk through town together, you would not believe the amount of pervy old guys she gets checking her out. It turns my stomach tbh. Yesterday she dressed up as a book character for book week in school. She had on a blonde wig, knee high socks and a skirt I kept making her pull down as it raised too much for my liking when she walked. Now I wasn't going to stop her wearing the outfit, there was nothing wrong with it. She still looked ten, especially stood next to me as I still dwarf her. But again at half 8 on a Monday morning, my little girl was getting lascivious looks in the street off men from age 18 upwards


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

Just seen the news one teacher jailed for noncery for  7 years and a governour accused of miltiple offences and they thought   this relantionship was only a concern ffs.

Oh for extra hilarity its a c of e school


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> The thing that's annoying me about this is, if we weren't so quick to label everyone as a 'paedo scumbag', then maybe there's a chance he'd come back to England with her and get an appropriate punishment*, and get her back home and in school. But as it is, he's unlikely to ever come back and because of that, will probably be brainwashing her to stay with him - he's effectively lost everything now, so has nothing to lose by coercing her to stay (even if it was previously consensual).
> 
> *I'm not sure what appropriate punishment means, here. I'm still thinking this situation through myself.





Badgers said:


> Not that anyone here wants to be in his position but I certainly would not rush to turn myself in if I was. He will do jail time for sure and doubt many (if any) people will stand by him after this.


 
I agree with Badgers on this - if it were me I think by the time I'd made the decision to run away I wouldn't be thinking about coming back or giving myself in. I'd have gone beyond that.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> I am not one of those people who fears paedos on every corner or anything but having a girl of ten has been a fucking eye opener for me tbh. She is very slim and only has the beginnings of breasts and is obviously still, very much a skinny lil pre-pubescent girl. But when we walk through town together, you would not believe the amount of pervy old guys she gets checking her out. It turns my stomach tbh. Yesterday she dressed up as a book character for book week in school. She had on a blonde wig, knee high socks and a skirt I kept making her pull down as it raised too much for my liking when she walked. Now I wasn't going to stop her wearing the outfit, there was nothing wrong with it. She still looked ten, especially stood next to me as I still dwarf her. But again at half 8 on a Monday morning, my little girl was getting lascivious looks in the street off men from age 18 upwards


 
 It's a scary age isn't it. We find ourselves attracting male attention waaay before we're emotionally mature enough to cope with it.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> That's the point I was making above. He's now fully committed because of the consequences of coming home. That means a rational response is unlikely. Which all means bad news for the girl.


 
Yeah, posted at the same time. I think if I was him I would hand her in somewhere and go on the run big style. Going back is going to be the end of him but she will be pretty infamous too so doubt she is in a hurry either.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> It's a scary age isn't it. We find ourselves attracting male attention waaay before we're emotionally mature enough to cope with it.


Aye, reminds me of when my step daughter was that age ( and this is going back a few years when pre-pubescence wasn't as young as it is now)


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## articul8 (Sep 25, 2012)

strange thing is that if she was 16, and left his class, it would barely raise an eyelid.  What was the rush?


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## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

He was about to lose his job


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## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> It's a scary age isn't it. We find ourselves attracting male attention waaay before we're emotionally mature enough to cope with it.


She doesn't notice it either tbf but it was blatant to me, especially as some of them would then give me a guilty glance! 
I had to tell her not to wear a certain t shirt to town the other day because of this. Which is a fucking shame as it really suits her and only shows off her navel. But I knew it would spur on the fuckers and it really makes me quite queasy to witness it.


----------



## articul8 (Sep 25, 2012)

sorry not followed the whole thread/story.  Why?  Because of the girl?


----------



## Thora (Sep 25, 2012)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I agree with Badgers on this - if it were me I think by the time I'd made the decision to run away I wouldn't be thinking about coming back or giving myself in. I'd have gone beyond that.


I just hope that she is able to come home unharmed.


----------



## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

articul8 said:


> sorry not followed the whole thread/story. Why? Because of the girl?


 
Yeh. He was going to be suspended on Friday after fellow students reported it.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

articul8 said:


> strange thing is that if she was 16, and left his class, it would barely raise an eyelid. What was the rush?


 
That isn't true, though, is it?  See my post above about a guy I know who waited til girl was 18 yet still everyone was suspicious.  The age is a factor as well as the abuse of power.


----------



## Fruitloop (Sep 25, 2012)

Some of the reporting of this has been pretty pervy too.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 25, 2012)

I sincerely hope he is never allowed to teach again.


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## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> I sincerely hope he is never allowed to teach again.


 
Probably will in prison.


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## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> I sincerely hope he is never allowed to teach again.


 
He never will.  Sex offenders register if/when he comes back.  Barred for life from working with kids.


----------



## Thora (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> It's a scary age isn't it. We find ourselves attracting male attention waaay before we're emotionally mature enough to cope with it.


Even at 15 not all girls are streetwise and sexually experienced - holding hands on school trips and romantic tweets are one thing but the reality of being so far away from home with an adult man like this could be pretty scary for a young girl.  How able is she to change her mind now?


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> I sincerely hope he is never allowed to teach again.


I have a nasty feeling that he'd simply find another position of authority eventually.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> He never will. *Sex offenders register* if/when he comes back. Barred for life from working with kids.


 
Just curious here (as I doubt it is the case) but what if no sexual intercourse has taken place?


----------



## weepiper (Sep 25, 2012)

Thora said:


> Even at 15 not all girls are streetwise and sexually experienced - holding hands on school trips and romantic tweets are one thing but the reality of being so far away from home with an adult man like this could be pretty scary for a young girl. How able is she to change her mind now?


 
For sure.


----------



## Fruitloop (Sep 25, 2012)

Is it just me or is the guy a bit simple? I've known a few cases of this sort of thing happening, and only in one case was the older party genuinely more intellectually and morally capable and frankly fairly manipulative and creepy. In the other instances to be brutally honest about it the older party didn't really have much to show for their extra years in terms of enhanced rationality or understanding.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Just curious here (as I doubt it is the case) but what if no sexual intercourse has taken place?


 
Hm, not sure then.  I know you can be placed on the SOR for things such as public urination, but don't know if he's done anything here which is covered (assuming no sex).

You can be barred from working with children and vulnerable adults without being on the SOR.  Presumably what he's done would be enough even without sex.


----------



## DRINK? (Sep 25, 2012)

one day taking the register,next day on the register


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## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Probably will in prison.


 
if he hasn't had sex with her (long shot perhaps...), i'be a bit surprised if he went to prison - if she's addamant that all of their travels were consenting, it might be difficult for the CPS to get a conviction for Kidnapping.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Sep 25, 2012)

weepiper said:


> It would be very unusual not to have reached puberty at 15 as a girl these days. Average age to begin puberty is 11.


It does happen, though, is my point.   I was responding to the post which said that it was definitely post puberty...

A 15 year old could look like a child, or look like an adult, depending on when they reached puberty, and on how they dress etc.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

I guess his conviction would be 'grooming'.  Even if you haven't had sex, that's a sexual offence and enough for the SOR.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

I, like a lot of us had a misspent youth  I started going clubbing at age 14 and never once was refused entry or even asked for I.D. I used to go for the buzz with my mates, admittedly enjoyed the naughtiness of underage drinking and having a dance and a snog. But never anything more. Me and my mates looked out for each other, we wouldn't let any of our mates be separated from the group, even if that meant sitting like a loser watching one of them slow dance  For us, having a snog was just a bit of fun. It didn't even seem sexual oddly, just an ego boost and gentle introduction into the adult world. You can imagine that the kind of clubs that don't ask for I.D are perfect places for actual nonce types to hang out and they did. Spiking drinks, offering lifts, feigning concern...watching...watching from a distance, waiting for a girl to be left alone  I look back on it and think wow, you were so lucky, cos that could have gone badly wrong.


----------



## DRINK? (Sep 25, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> His music is fucking shite too


 
what band is he in? scouting for girls?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Hm, not sure then. I know you can be placed on the SOR for things such as public urination, but don't know if he's done anything here which is covered (assuming no sex).
> 
> You can be barred from working with children and vulnerable adults without being on the SOR. Presumably what he's done would be enough even without sex.


 


kebabking said:


> if he hasn't had sex with her (long shot perhaps...), i'be a bit surprised if he went to prison - if she's addamant that all of their travels were consenting, it might be difficult for the CPS to get a conviction for Kidnapping.


 
I would guess they have had / are having sex but we can't be certain. She certainly does not seem to have been under any duress but we can't be certain. He will be barred from working with children and vulnerable adults. I think we can safely say his marriage is over and chances of easy employment would be slim.

If the school were 'aware of a relationship' then _somethin_g must have been said/seen.


----------



## gentlegreen (Sep 25, 2012)

Fruitloop said:


> Is it just me or is the guy a bit simple? I've known a few cases of this sort of thing happening, and only in one case was the older party genuinely more intellectually and morally capable and frankly fairly manipulative and creepy. In the other instances to be brutally honest about it the older party didn't really have much to show for their extra years in terms of enhanced rationality or understanding.


That's my take on it - he looked rather disconnected in his wedding photo and somewhat up himself with the dreadful songs he wrote - and the notion that you can "run away" to France in a registered car shows you can get a maths degree and still be rather clueless.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I guess his conviction would be 'grooming'. Even if you haven't had sex, that's a sexual offence and enough for the SOR.


 
Wiki: 



> In England and Wales, sections 14 and 15 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003 make it an offense to arrange a meeting with a child, for oneself or someone else, with the intent of sexually abusing the child. The meeting itself is also criminalized.[9]


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> I, like a lot of us had a misspent youth  I started going clubbing at age 14 and never once was refused entry or even asked for I.D. I used to go for the buzz with my mates, admittedly enjoyed the naughtiness of underage drinking and having a dance and a snog. But never anything more. Me and my mates looked out for each other, we wouldn't let any of our mates be separated from the group, even if that meant sitting like a loser watching one of them slow dance  For us, having a snog was just a bit of fun. It didn't even seem sexual oddly, just an ego boost and gentle introduction into the adult world. You can imagine that the kind of clubs that don't ask for I.D are perfect places for actual nonce types to hang out and they did. Spiking drinks, offering lifts, feigning concern...watching...watching from a distance, waiting for a girl to be left alone  I look back on it and think wow, you were so lucky, cos that could have gone badly wrong.


 
This is really common, I think.  When I first started noticing girls at school, I used to think, "I can't wait until I'm 20 so I have a chance with girls my age," as all the girls in my school were seeing older lads.  Then when I got to 15, the girls my age were seeing even older guys.  Then when I got to that age, I wasn't interested in girls who were much younger than me.

My ex was seeing a guy 12 years older than her for a few years before we got together.  She was 17/18 and he was late 29/30.  He fit the creepy profile you and others have described in this thread.  A few of her mates also had boyfriends with similar age gaps, and they all seemed to be losers.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I guess his conviction would be 'grooming'. Even if you haven't had sex, that's a sexual offence and enough for the SOR.


 
the definition i've found suggests that for grooming (as an offence) to take place, the intent must be sexual. if he, and she, deny that sex took place, and he denies that he intended to have sex with her, then CPS could have a problem.

for the record i don't doubt that they've done the deed, and he's panicking, and she's bored, and that he's an immature, witless idiot - but something about him strikes me as very, very immature.


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## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

I wonder how much money they have?


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## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2012)

why does the thread title not read "maths teacher wrecks the life _of_ a 15 year old"?


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## wemakeyousoundb (Sep 25, 2012)

wtfftw said:


> I think he's have to wait until 18 as he's in a position of trust - although maybe not if he doesn't teach post gcse.


but the love of youth is so fickle


----------



## no-no (Sep 25, 2012)

Garek said:


> In some ways yes*. You can't be absolved of some of the responsibility of not sleeping with children just because that child happens to be in his/her teens.
> 
> *still working my way through my thinking on this one.


 
The legal age of consent of 16 is completely arbitrary though, a day after her 16th birthday would this all be ok? I don't think so, as others have said he's used his position to groom her. The fact she's 15 makes it worse yes, but it's not like there's this magical day after which all will be fine.


----------



## astral (Sep 25, 2012)

kebabking said:


> for the record i don't doubt that they've done the deed, and he's panicking, and she's bored, and that he's an immature, witless idiot -* but something about him strikes me as very, very immature*.


 
I think that what makes him seem so immature to me, was the blog post that he wrote which was apparently his justification of the situation. 

Rather than, as I believe a rational person of 30 would, taking a step back and recognising "this is wrong, this type of situaiton has _never_ ended well for any teacher in the history of ever" he appears to have justified his actions/feelings in a way that suits his (limited) moral code and seriously thinks that his situation is different to that of ever other instance of this happening in the past.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

He's a fucking nonce and should be left to rot in jail. She could have been as young as 13 when he first set eyes on her and started grooming her. Fuck him.



DRINK? said:


> what band is he in? scouting for girls?


 
Man the pumps, the man is on fire!


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> why does the thread title not read "maths teacher wrecks the life _of_ a 15 year old"?


 
because it more than likely won't ... she come to her sense and return.. and have a tail to tale in the future

where as he will have what when she comes to her senses


----------



## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> why does the thread title not read "maths teacher wrecks the life _of_ a 15 year old"?


 
possibly because she _may_ walk away from this episode having had an adventure, he certainly won't: not only will he never work with children or vunerable adults again, his marriage is over, everyone who knows him will disown him, everyone who has seen his face or read his name will, for the next decade or so, think 'oh yeah, that nonce..', and he'll certainly face criminal prosecution, and he may well go to prison.

assuming nothing unpleasent has happened to the girl - and i'm concious that she's a child, and he's an adult who should know better - she'll be embarrassed, and her parents will go ballistic, her friends will make jokes and the police will be their usually sensitive selves in asking her about the events of the last however-long, but in 2 years time, again, assuming that nothing unpleasent has happened to her, she'll get her life back on track. he won't.

by far the best result for all concerned is he drops her off outside a police station/British Embassy, and he disappears never to be seen or heard from again.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

kebabking said:


> the definition i've found suggests that for grooming (as an offence) to take place, the intent must be sexual. if he, and she, deny that sex took place, and he denies that he intended to have sex with her, then CPS could have a problem.
> 
> for the record i don't doubt that they've done the deed, and he's panicking, and she's bored, and that he's an immature, witless idiot - but something about him strikes me as very, very immature.


 
This tweet is pretty damning:

In another message he told how he wanted to “wake up next to you, kissing the curve in your clavicle”


----------



## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> This tweet is pretty damning:
> 
> In another message he told how he wanted to “wake up next to you, kissing the curve in your clavicle”


 

yeah, not much in the way of wiggle room there.

who says 'clavicle' in dirty texts?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

kebabking said:


> yeah, not much in the way of wiggle room there.
> 
> who says 'clavicle' in dirty texts?


Maths teachers.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> He's a fucking nonce and should be left to rot in jail. She could have been as young as 13 when he first set eyes on her and started grooming her. Fuck him.


 
Do you not think that's a bit hysterical?  According to everything that's been published, the relationship is relatively recent.  She's 15.  I know it's underage, and he's in a position of trust, but locking him up for life for that!?


----------



## weltweit (Sep 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> why does the thread title not read "maths teacher wrecks the life _of_ a 15 year old"?


Hi WB, just because I was thinking what an idiot the man had been and what was going to happen to him when he was caught when I wrote it.


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## rubbershoes (Sep 25, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> why does the thread title not read "maths teacher wrecks the life _of_ a 15 year old"?


 
  let's hope she comes out of this unscathed. it may seem like a big exciting adventure to her at the moment. but she may well come out of this with nothing more than a sense of being foolish. no reason why she can't be everything she  can be in the future .


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Do you not think that's a bit hysterical?  ?


 
No.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

likesfish said:


> its not a violent kidnap but the again its not rational behaviour by anything approaching adult.
> School should have slapped him down hard at the first hint of a relantionship.


 
I take a slightly more lenient view, because I was in a similar situation when I was teaching at a college of FE in Sussex some years ago.

In my case I was 31, the girl was 17 and I asked her out after I'd finished teaching her so I thought (wrongly) that I was in the clear. I thought I was in love, just as this guy believes he is (he describes the effect she has on him as "like heroin"). She certainly had a strong calming influence on me.

Although she initially decided we could be friends, she panicked not long after that and told the authorities and I was suspended for the rest of the year (though I wasn't scheduled to take any more classes there anyway). With hindsight, yes I was a prat but in my case there was nothing more sinister about it than my wish to revisit my teens.


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2012)

rubbershoes said:


> let's hope she comes out of this unscathed. it may seem like a big exciting adventure to her at the moment. but she may well come out of this with nothing more than a sense of being foolish. no reason why she can't be everything she can be in the future .


 
at the very least i would imagine it's likely to severely disrupt her education at a critical time. especially if it ends in a court case and continued press interest.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:
			
		

> In my opinion, if it is consensual, it is less serious than if it was with, say, a five year old.  Because although she's not legally able to consent, the reality is that she is far nearer to being able to understand what is going on and to refuse  his advances than a much younger child would be.  I am not saying that what he has done isn't appalling, or blaming her, though.



At 15 she is able to consent so it's sex with a minor. It's 13 and under where it's automatically classed as rape iirc.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> I take a slightly more lenient view, because I was in a similar situation when I was teaching at a college of FE in Sussex some years ago.
> 
> In my case I was 31, the girl was 17 and I asked her out after I'd finished teaching her so I thought (wrongly) that I was in the clear. I thought I was in love, just as this guy believes he is (he describes the effect she has on him as "like heroin"). She certainly had a strong calming influence on me.
> 
> Although she initially decided we could be friends, she panicked not long after that and told the authorities and I was suspended for the rest of the year (though I wasn't scheduled to take any more classes anyway). With hindsight, yes I was a prat but in my case there was nothing more sinister about it than my wish to revisit my teens.


 
Wow...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

The fact he used Alkaline Trio lyrics in the text made me laugh.
And Firky stop being a dickhead, there's quite a world of difference between this idiots actions and someone fucking an actual child.

He'll be fucked out of teaching, have his life ruined and be a laughing stock at best, I don't think locking him up for life or chemical castration etc is really appropriate, though a kicking from the girls da might be.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Wow...


 
The college were actually quite nice about it. Although I wasn't allowed to teach there again for the rest of that year, and in fact never did again, I got access to a counsellor there (he was very good too) after I'd agreed not to contact her again, which I didn't.

I believe we're all allowed to make mistakes in life as long as we learn from them.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> At 15 she is able to consent so it's sex with a minor. It's 13 and under where it's automatically classed as rape iirc.


 
Where have you got this from?  In English law she cannot consent to sex at 15, so it's rape (s.1 Sexual Offences Act 2003).  There is another offence of rape of a child under 13 (s.5).

Both are rapes, but the law seems to acknowledge a difference depending on age.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Firky stop being a dickhead, there's quite a world of difference between this idiots actions and someone fucking an actual child.


 

Fantasising about kissing her solar plexus or whatever the fuck it was is creepy as fuck. She's a kid, a child and he's responsible for her, in a position of trust and power and he's telling her of his sexual and erotic thoughts about her. You don't have to stick your cock in a kid to be a nonce.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

I shouldn't imagine he'll just be holding her hand in france either. He's Gadding about


----------



## Thora (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> I take a slightly more lenient view, because I was in a similar situation when I was teaching at a college of FE in Sussex some years ago.
> 
> In my case I was 31, the girl was 17 and I asked her out after I'd finished teaching her so I thought (wrongly) that I was in the clear. I thought I was in love, just as this guy believes he is (he describes the effect she has on him as "like heroin"). She certainly had a strong calming influence on me.
> 
> Although she initially decided we could be friends, she panicked not long after that and told the authorities and I was suspended for the rest of the year (though I wasn't scheduled to take any more classes there anyway). With hindsight, yes I was a prat but in my case there was nothing more sinister about it than my wish to revisit my teens.


Though whatever you did was enough to make a 17 year old "panic"


----------



## Dandred (Sep 25, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I shouldn't imagine he'll just be holding her hand in france either. *He's Gadding* about


 
Nice!


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Fantasising about kissing her solar plexus or whatever the fuck it was is creepy as fuck. She's a kid, a child and he's responsible for her, in a position of trust and power and he's telling her of his sexual and erotic thoughts about her. You don't have to stick your cock in a kid to be a nonce.


 
It's an alkaline trio lyric.

She is still a kid and yes he was in a position of trust and authority, so it's fucked up but nonce is generally for paedophiles and he is not a paedophile, unless you want to make the term meaningless. Also if you can't see the difference between what this gormless and self deluded twat has done and say those gangs of men who prey on kids in care etc then you are being stupid.

He'll be caught, his life will be fucked and a lot of hard lessons will hit him (not algebra), I see no reason to wish for his castration or any other hang him high rhetoric.

Also if this was a 15 year old boy and a 30 year old female teacher you wouldn't be shouting such bollocks, you'd be sniggering about him being a jammy wee bastard as would I most likely.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> Where have you got this from?  In English law she cannot consent to sex at 15, so it's rape (s.1 Sexual Offences Act 2003).  There is another offence of rape of a child under 13 (s.5).
> 
> Both are rapes, but the law seems to acknowledge a difference depending on age.



So all 15 year old boys shagging 15 year old girls are rapists? I'm fairly certain you are wrong btw. As i said, ifaik it's 13 and younger where the law deems them unable to give consent. Perhaps you can provide a link to where it says 15 or under?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> Where have you got this from? In English law she cannot consent to sex at 15, so it's rape (s.1 Sexual Offences Act 2003).


 
Not it isn't.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Fantasising about kissing her solar plexus or whatever the fuck it was is creepy as fuck. She's a kid, a child and he's responsible for her, in a position of trust and power and he's telling her of his sexual and erotic thoughts about her. You don't have to stick your cock in a kid to be a nonce.


 

Collarbone.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Also if this was a 15 year old boy and a 30 year old female teacher you wouldn't be shouting such bollocks, you'd be sniggering about him being a jammy wee bastard as would I most likely.


I'd be thinking she was mentally ill AND  a nonce tbf.
Teenage boys yuck yuck yuck.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So all 15 year old boys shagging 15 year old girls are rapists? I'm fairly certain you are wrong btw. As i said, ifaik it's 13 and younger where the law deems them unable to give consent. Perhaps you can provide a link to where it says 15 or under?






			
				CPS website said:
			
		

> *Sexual Offences - Unlawful sexual intercourse*
> 
> *...*
> 
> ...


 
I haven't looked up S5 / S6 yet...

e2a: main distinction seems to be an unqualified 'felony' for girls under 13, and a potential 'offence' (with some qualifiers / qualifying circumstances) over 13.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 25, 2012)

Abuse of position of trust offences under the SOA 2003.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Interesting use of man and girl, there.  Is it legal for a women to fuck a boy?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2012)

> The age at which girls can lawfully have sex is 16, but there are extra rules applying to the under-13s.
> 
> 
> The law presumes that when a girl is under 13 she is not mature enough to consent to sex. So even if a 12-year-old girl willingly has intercourse, as far as the law is concerned, she has not "consented" to it because legally she is not able to.
> ...



So not true for a 15 year old, then.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

kebabking said:


> yeah, not much in the way of wiggle room there.
> 
> who says 'clavicle' in dirty texts?


 
until i googled it i thought a clavicle was a musical instrument.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> I'd be thinking she was mentally ill AND a nonce tbf.
> Teenage boys yuck yuck yuck.


 
She'd only be a nonce if he wasn't through puberty.

You seen Notes on a Scandal? He was a jammy wee fucker.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> t but in my case there was nothing more sinister about it than my wish to revisit my teens.


 
Your name goes on the list.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Interesting use of man and girl, there. Is it legal for a women to fuck a boy?


Sections 5 and 6 of the SOA 1956, referred to by the CPS, are explicitly about men / girls. I'm not sure whether there're other sections of the act relating to boys (and / or women).


----------



## free spirit (Sep 25, 2012)

stupid fucker should have waited til she was 16 and had left school, like one of our PE teachers did, and IIRC ended up marrying her before she was 18.

erm, at least he told everyone they'd waited, I have my doubts personally.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

actually there's quite a few names for the list coming up on this thread...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

19 year old bar maids?


----------



## girasol (Sep 25, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> until i googled it i thought a clavicle was a musical instrument.


 
Mine got borked in a car accident when I was a toddler, back in the days people didn't use seat belts!


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> 19 year old bar maids?


 
Careful.  You'll end up on "the list"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> these things never do


 
Except if you're Chris Woodhead.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Except if you're Chris Woodhead.


 
How is he relevant?  I've never heard of him, but his Wiki page suggests the only connection here is he works with schools.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Except if you're Chris Woodhead.


 
I have no great liking for Chris Woodhead, but hadn't the girl concerned (one Amanda Johnston IIRC) already left school by the time he started seeing her?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> I have no great liking for Chris Woodhead, but hadn't the girl concerned (one Amanda Johnston IIRC) already left school by the time he started seeing her?


 
No, she was a 6th-former. Woodhead and the woman denied a physical relationship until she left school. Most of her classroom contemporaries said differently.

The crux being, you don't have relations with someone for whom you stand _in loco parentis_.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> How is he relevant? I've never heard of him, but his Wiki page suggests the only connection here is he works with schools.


 
He was once a schoolteacher who allegedly had a relationship with a pupil under his care.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

I would hope that my daughter knows better than to become infatuated with her teacher at 15.

But I would hope a fuck of a lot more than none of her teachers were seriously considering her as girlfriend material. As has been said, teachers are in loco parentis, so it would be like incest by proxy. Or something.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> No, she was a 6th-former. Woodhead and the woman denied a physical replationship until she left school. Most of her classroom contemporaries said differently.


 
OK, fair enough. I've checked his wiki and it looks like you're right. I stand corrected.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

weltweit said:


> This is the 30 year old married Maths teacher and guitar player who has just eloped to France with a 15 year old pupil from his Maths class.
> 
> I doubt his marriage will survive, I doubt he will teach again, perhaps he will even be prosecuted as the girl is only 15.
> 
> ...


 
I don't give much of a fuck for the teacher. I'm hoping it doesn't ruin the life of the teenager.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 25, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/apr/11/martinbright.theobserver1

^^^ 1999 article on Woodhead.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

Oh and...


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2012)

i'm amazed tbh how often this kind of thing _does_ go on - how many apparently responsible adult teachers manage to convince themselves that it's okay, that they're somehow immune to the rules. i only found out many years later (from a friend) that my mum had concerns about a particular teacher's intentions towards me (i was happily oblivious at the time). apparently it was common knowledge that he'd had an inappropriate relationship with a 6th former in the past. still turns my fucking stomach. (more so because i was in the same year as his fucking daughter )


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> I take a slightly more lenient view, because I was in a similar situation when I was teaching at a college of FE in Sussex some years ago.
> 
> In my case I was 31, the girl was 17 and I asked her out after I'd finished teaching her so I thought (wrongly) that I was in the clear. I thought I was in love, just as this guy believes he is (he describes the effect she has on him as "like heroin"). She certainly had a strong calming influence on me.
> 
> Although she initially decided we could be friends, she panicked not long after that and told the authorities and I was suspended for the rest of the year (though I wasn't scheduled to take any more classes there anyway). With hindsight, yes I was a prat but in my case there was nothing more sinister about it than my wish to revisit my teens.


Christ on a bike, you TWUNT


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/apr/11/martinbright.theobserver1
> 
> ^^^ 1999 article on Woodhead.


Wow, what a fucked up situation.  Had never heard about this before, cheers.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

Wolveryeti said:


> The French love paedos. He will fit right in.


 
He'll be the new Gainsbourg.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

which country is sheltering polanski?

and why does it seem like being a filmmaker/artist get you a pass in europe


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> which country is sheltering polanski?
> 
> and why does it seem like being a filmmaker/artist get you a pass in europe


 
Not just Europe. I'm sure it was on here I read that Hendrix was into young girls. Obviously that doesn't mean it's true, but Urban is a font of knowledge when it comes to the vices of the rich and famous, so...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> the age of consent in the UK is 18, if the partner is a teacher


Or in any role where you stand _in loco parentis_, so legal guardian, teacher, poster-parent etc, or if you're a screw in a YOI.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 25, 2012)

oh look! sas not been back to retract or apologise for his bullshit fact i see!


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I don't give much of a fuck for the teacher. I'm hoping it doesn't ruin the life of the teenager.


 
I reckon the teacher will come out considerably more fucked up over this. She'll grow up and think "fuck, that was mental" and he'll be left with a conviction, no career and as I said a laughing stock at best. 

She's 15 not 10, it doesn't make it excusable but in terms of the "damage" it will do her, there's a big difference.

I know a guy who at 15 fucked his teacher, didn't ruin his life in the slightest, he was a bit mental before it and just the same after it, only thing was he had something to brag about years later.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 25, 2012)

Some 15 year olds are still very immature (even for their age) though.


----------



## The Octagon (Sep 25, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> which country is sheltering polanski?
> 
> and why does it seem like being a filmmaker/artist get you a pass in europe


 


Fez909 said:


> Not just Europe. I'm sure it was on here I read that Hendrix was into young girls. Obviously that doesn't mean it's true, but Urban is a font of knowledge when it comes to the vices of the rich and famous, so...


 
 John Peel gets a (by comparison) fairly easy time of it on here, he liked them young too.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Christ on a bike, you TWUNT


 
I think he's probably quite aware of what a twunt he was, I don't see why you feel the need to attack someone for something they freely admitted to and aren't at all proud of, personally I think his actions were clearly fucked up but I respect his honesty and bravery in posting about it.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Oh and...




Should be added to the standard set of smileys useds on this site


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 25, 2012)

Meh, it was an honest reaction. Hardly an attack.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> Some 15 year olds are still very immature (even for their age) though.


 
Yeah but we can only go on a generalised assumption about age and maturity, which is why you can lawfully bang all the immature 16 year olds you want but even one very mature 15 year old will land you in the shit.

For the benefit of "the list" compilers I have no interest in 15 or 16 year olds, mature or otherwise.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Interesting use of man and girl, there. Is it legal for a women to fuck a boy?


 
Illegal if she uses a strap-on (penetrative sex perpetrated on him), otherwise indecent assault (or indecent assault's modern-day equivalent), IIRC.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Illegal if she uses a strap-on (penetrative sex perpetrated on him), otherwise indecent assault (or indecent assault's modern-day equivalent), IIRC.


 
Don't see why there needs to be separate laws, myself.  A kid's a kid and an adult's an adult.

What's the deal with John Peel?  I didn't know he was into young 'uns!? (not aimed at you, VP.)  He definitely got off lightly reputation-wise if that's true.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> 19 year old bar maids?


 
*checks list*

depends on how old you are i guess.  you're probably ok.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 25, 2012)

What is this list that is being subtly mentioned again and again?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yeah but we can only go on a generalised assumption about age and maturity, which is why you can lawfully bang all the immature 16 year olds you want but even one very mature 15 year old will land you in the shit.
> 
> For the benefit of "the list" compilers I have no interest in 15 or 16 year olds, mature or otherwise.


 
that girl out of skins


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not it isn't.


 

You're right, I just looked at the act.

It is an offence to have sex with a 15 year old, but not necessarily rape.  Whereas it is rape if the child is under 13.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> You're right, I just looked at the act.
> 
> It is an offence to have sex with a 15 year old, but not necessarily rape. Whereas it is rape if the child is under 13.


 
Yeah, still iffy though and the greater the age gap between 15 year old and the bloke the iffier it gets. Enshrined in law is dat.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yeah but we can only go on a generalised assumption about age and maturity, which is why you can lawfully bang all the immature 16 year olds you want but even one very mature 15 year old will land you in the shit.
> 
> For the benefit of "the list" compilers I have no interest in 15 or 16 year olds, mature or otherwise.


Best not be wooing teenage girls anyway. stay well clear.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So all 15 year old boys shagging 15 year old girls are rapists? I'm fairly certain you are wrong btw. As i said, ifaik it's 13 and younger where the law deems them unable to give consent. Perhaps you can provide a link to where it says 15 or under?


 
You're right to an extent (and my understanding of the relevant law was out of date).  It isn't necessarily a rape for a man to have sex with a 15 year old, but it is an offence under the act for him to do so if he doesn't reasonable believe that person to be over 16.


----------



## The Octagon (Sep 25, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Best not be wooing teenage girls anyway. stay well clear.


 
10 minutes of conversation with a teenage girl would usually put off most 20+ men anyway /shockinggeneralisation


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 25, 2012)

Dandred said:


> What is this list that is being subtly mentioned again and again?


 
It's like The Files, but in crayon on fag packet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Don't see why there needs to be separate laws, myself. A kid's a kid and an adult's an adult.


 
The weird state of the laws is an artifact of there previously being no hard and fast set of laws under the same statute to deal with sexual offences until the '50s, when *some* offences were codified, but 2003 was the last major re-think, and the first one to actually attempt to define rape clearly.



> What's the deal with John Peel? I didn't know he was into young 'uns!? (not aimed at you, VP.) He definitely got off lightly reputation-wise if that's true.


 
He married a 15-year old Texan girl (legal in that State and in many other US states) when he lived and worked there.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> that girl out of skins


 
She's 23 and I seen her in my local burrito bar last month, she's just as cute in real life.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> *checks list*
> 
> depends on how old you are i guess. you're probably ok.


 
Thirty, can you give me some documentation of that decision?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Best not be wooing teenage girls anyway. stay well clear.


 
Square.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> You're right to an extent (and my understanding of the relevant law was out of date).  It isn't necessarily a rape for a man to have sex with a 15 year old, but it is an offence under the act for him to do so if he doesn't reasonable believe that person to be over 16.



Yep, and not being able to give consent is statutory rape, which doesn't apply to those over 13. But it's still illegal to shag them!


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Yep, and not being able to give consent is statutory rape, which doesn't apply to those over 13. But it's still illegal to shag them!


On your other point, I still suspect it's an offence for a 15 year old to shag another 15 year old, but I'm not sure; I'll take a propoer look when I get a chance.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 25, 2012)

kebabking said:


> by far the best result for all concerned is he drops her off outside a police station/British Embassy, and he disappears never to be seen or heard from again.


The best thing for all concerned would be for him to come home and face the music, rather than going somewhere else where he might do it again.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> On your other point, I still suspect it's an offence for a 15 year old to shag another 15 year old, but I'm not sure; I'll take a propoer look when I get a chance.



My point wasn't that it isn't illegal, it was that it isn't rape (your original point was that a 15 year old girl can't consent).


----------



## weltweit (Sep 25, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The best thing for all concerned would be for him to come home and face the music, rather than going somewhere else where he might do it again.


 
I suppose he has to come back, I mean how much money can he have to survive on, how long can he / they stay abroad?


----------



## Cid (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Don't see why there needs to be separate laws, myself. A kid's a kid and an adult's an adult.


 
It's to do with the definition of rape, which relates to penetration.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2012)

Cid said:


> It's to do with the definition of rape, which relates to penetration.



And consent.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Cid said:


> It's to do with the definition of rape, which relates to penetration.


 
Ah, ok. That makes sense.


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> My point wasn't that it isn't illegal, it was that it isn't rape (your original point was that a 15 year old girl can't consent).


Ahh, I see. I just checked, by the way.  It is illegal by virtue of ss 9 and 13 of the 2003 act.


----------



## Cid (Sep 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> And consent.


 
No, I mean specifically the difference between rape and sexual assault, molestation etc.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The best thing for all concerned would be for him to come home and face the music, rather than going somewhere else where he might do it again.


 
i was being slightly subtle. i think you can probably guess my meaning (surely 'not be seen or heard of again' has only one real conotation?), but i'd rather the girl didn't feel that 'that' was her fault.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

my brother came out with a classic years ago used to fantasie about 18 year old girls in a hot tub now having worked with teenage girls i still have the same fantasy i just now inculde an electric fire to throw in the hot tub


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> She's 23 and I seen her in my local burrito bar last month, she's just as cute in real life.


but you didn't start a thread about the actress you started one about her 15 year old character... who you wanted to nonce, even the editor got concerned enough to post on the thread questioning your posts.... as I recall...


----------



## pogofish (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> On your other point, I still suspect it's an offence for a 15 year old to shag another 15 year old, but I'm not sure; I'll take a propoer look when I get a chance.


 

It is but there are some fairly well established (and previously well discussed here) guidelines that mean it would be fairly unlikely to end in prosecution, unless there were coercion/other issues or one set of parents/guardians were absolutely intractable about pressing charges. Similarly, a small age gap, like a seventeen year old with a 14/15 year old would be dealt with some sympathy but a 20/21 year old would get the book thrown at them.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> I take a slightly more lenient view, because I was in a similar situation when I was teaching at a college of FE in Sussex some years ago.
> 
> In my case I was 31, the girl was 17 and I asked her out after I'd finished teaching her so I thought (wrongly) that I was in the clear. I thought I was in love, just as this guy believes he is (he describes the effect she has on him as "like heroin"). She certainly had a strong calming influence on me.
> 
> Although she initially decided we could be friends, she panicked not long after that and told the authorities and I was suspended for the rest of the year (though I wasn't scheduled to take any more classes there anyway). With hindsight, yes I was a prat but in my case there was nothing more sinister about it than my wish to revisit my teens.


 
Erm, sorry melting pot. But in what way exactly is asking out a seventeen year old, who you are teaching revisiting your teens?


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> that girl out of skins


 
She's about 25 aint she?


----------



## Thora (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Erm, sorry melting pot. But in what way exactly is asking out a seventeen year old, who you are teaching revisiting your teens?


And asking her out in a way that causes her to panic...


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> 10 minutes of conversation with a teenage girl would usually put off most 20+ men anyway /shockinggeneralisation


 
"Oh Em Gee! How can you say that? El Oh el."

*clunk click bang*


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm trying to whip up a mob here


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Erm, sorry melting pot. But in what way exactly is asking out a seventeen year old, who you are teaching revisiting your teens?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 25, 2012)

kebabking said:


> i was being slightly subtle. i think you can probably guess my meaning (surely 'not be seen or heard of again' has only one real conotation?), but i'd rather the girl didn't feel that 'that' was her fault.


ok.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

Thora said:


> And asking her out in a way that causes her to panic...


Sounds a bit Michael Jackson to me tbh


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Sounds a bit Michael Jackson to me tbh


 
It's approaching the borderline, aye.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 25, 2012)

Thora said:


> And asking her out in a way that causes her to panic...


 
asking girls out, and having them panic, or bursting into tears, very much reminds me of my teens...


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

pogofish said:
			
		

> It is but there are some fairly well established (and previously well discussed here) guidelines that mean it would be fairly unlikely to end in prosecution, unless there were coercion/other issues or one set of parents/guardians were absolutely intractable about pressing charges. Similarly, a small age gap, like a seventeen year old with a 14/15 year old would be dealt with some sympathy but a 20/21 year old would get the book thrown at them.



Yes, I looked at the CPS guidance on charging, and the sentencing guidelines. They reflect the fact that the law is there to protect people from sexual predators, rather than to protect consenting partners where there's no obvious imbalance of power, and they're not very young (i.e. under 13). I think there was something similar before the 2003 act, known as 'the young man's defence.' But, as my earlier posts demonstrated, it's a long time since I've looked at this, and the law has changed in the meantime.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Sounds a bit Michael Jackson to me tbh


 
Heh, I was going to mention him. I remember people defending him, saying that _even if he had molested those kids _he wasn't a paedo, he just wanted to be a child again. I always thought yeah, bet that's how a lot of paedos justify themselves.

Not that asking out a 17-year-old after you're not teaching her makes you a paedo. The justification is a bit off and asking her out was definitely off - "you're not as old as you feel, you're only as old as the person you feel" is not actually scientific fact.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> Yes, I looked at the CPS guidance on charging, and the sentencing guidelines. They reflect the fact that the law is there to protect people from sexual predators, rather than to protect consenting partners where there's no obvious imbalance of power, and they're not very young (i.e. under 13). I think there was something similar before the 2003 act, known as 'the young man's defence.' But, as my earlier posts demonstrated, it's a long time since I've looked at this, and the law has changed in the meantime.


 
A lot of countries have Romeo and Juliet laws where the age difference between the partners makes it illegal to have sex with, say, a 14-year-old in some cases and not in others. Some people, of course, quote those ages of consent as if they were the general age.

The way it happens in practice, that's the way the UK works too, but it would be better if it were an actual written law; no politician is ever going to face the slathering hoardes to get that bill passed, though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

jacko was restored to sainthood by dying though, the euologies barely mentioned his 'troubled'* life.


*bad sexual ettiquette


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Erm, sorry melting pot. But in what way exactly is asking out a seventeen year old, who you are teaching revisiting your teens?


apparently carnally, and literally...


----------



## Athos (Sep 25, 2012)

scifisam said:
			
		

> A lot of countries have Romeo and Juliet laws where the age difference between the partners makes it illegal to have sex with, say, a 14-year-old in some cases and not in others. Some people, of course, quote those ages of consent as if they were the general age.
> 
> The way it happens in practice, that's the way the UK works too, but it would be better if it were an actual written law; no politician is ever going to face the slathering hoardes to get that bill passed, though.


I guess a tolerance of underage sex isn't an obvious vote-winner.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 25, 2012)

I lost my virginity to a teacher. I was the one who got into the shit over it. His career has flourished, although I think he's retired now. Things are different now, thankfully


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I lost my virginity to a teacher. I was the one who got into the shit over it. His career has flourished, although I think he's retired now. Things are different now, thankfully


 
Can you change the thread title to something a bit more suitable? I couldn't give a toss what happens to him.


----------



## spliff (Sep 25, 2012)

Last week the final episode of 'Good Cop' was cancelled because it involved a story of a cop getting killed in Manchester.

On Sunday a 'George Gently' was broadcast even though the storyline was about a teacher having an affair with a 15 year old, getting her pregnant and finally killing her to protect his career.

Weird eh?!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Can you change the thread title to something a bit more suitable? I couldn't give a toss what happens to him.


Quite. I found the thread title pretty off.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Can you change the thread title to something a bit more suitable? I couldn't give a toss what happens to him.


 


Mrs Magpie said:


> Quite. I found the thread title pretty off.


 
You are welcome to change it, I didn't think much about it when I wrote it.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

Much better


----------



## Pingu (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Erm, sorry melting pot. But in what way exactly is asking out a seventeen year old, who you are teaching revisiting your teens?


 

aye, most people just buy a bag of scampi fries tbh


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Pingu said:


> aye, most people just buy a bag of scampi fries tbh


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Christ on a bike, you TWUNT


 
And the rest of you who thought Orang Utan's comment was worth liking;

Do you really think I needed that comment. after I've already told you I made a mistake and had counselling afterwards? Do you really not think the question of my culpability arose at any time during that counselling?

Who the hell do you think you are, passing judgment on someone you don't know on an internet board for something they did in the past?

I'm taking a break from this board. It really isn't worth the stress and aggravation of posting here.

I thought this was a board where people could be open and honest about their mistakes and meet some measure of understanding on the basis that we're all human beings together. What a mistake that seems to have been.

Fuck off, the lot of you. Insensitive and self-righteous "twunts."


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

Contender for flounce of the year, right there.


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Sep 25, 2012)

12 pages eh? Sex sells.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Contender for flounce of the year, right there.


 
I know. Can you blame me though?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

Not really, no.

Still think you should have left it with "Fuck off, the lot of you" though.


----------



## Pingu (Sep 25, 2012)

pah now my scampi fries post wil get all lost amongst the serious stuff


----------



## isvicthere? (Sep 25, 2012)

Athos said:


> On your other point, I still suspect it's an offence for a 15 year old to shag another 15 year old, but I'm not sure; I'll take a propoer look when I get a chance.


 
Take a camera!


----------



## IC3D (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> I thought this was a board where people could be open and honest about their mistakes and meet some measure of understanding on the basis that we're all human beings together. What a mistake that seems to have been.


No one cared about my bad sexual etiquette, just be grateful of the fucking attention.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> And the rest of you who thought Orang Utan's comment was worth liking;
> 
> Do you really think I needed that comment. after I've already told you I made a mistake and had counselling afterwards? Do you really not think the question of my culpability arose at any time during that counselling?
> 
> ...


If you didn't want it opened for discussion, perhaps you should have refrained from posting about it. I like you Mp, but I will call up people I like when they come out with something I disagree with.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> If you didn't want it opened for discussion, perhaps you should have refrained from posting it.


 
Discussion my arse. That was abuse. (Not your comment - Orang Utan's).


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair de Lune said:
			
		

> I like you Mp, but I will call up people I like when they come out with something I disagree with.


 
OK (and thanks), but just because I did something in the past doesn't mean I deserve to be forever labelled as a result of it. Of course I expect people to disagree with what I did - I now know better myself.

It took a long time of self-reflection, and a certain amount of growing up too.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 25, 2012)

Well he's Donald ducked by now. As soon as he hits a cash machine or pays for something chip and pin the plod will know exactly where they are and he will be lifted as euro-nonse of the year. I would imagine 'abduction' is looking more and more likely a charge he will face the longer she stays out of touch with her parents as well

I can't believe that people think you can actually 'run away' these days


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> OK, but just because I did something in the past doesn't mean I deserve to be forever labelled as a result of it. Of course I expect people to disagree with what I did - I now know better myself.


Who said anything about forever labelling? orangutan called you a twunt...hardly offensive. I asked you a question....now you are getting all defensive in an I refuse to defend myself so I am leaving manner.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 25, 2012)

oops


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

Clair De Lune said:


> Who said anything about forever labelling? orangutan called you a twunt...hardly offensive. .


 
Hardly offensive? "Twunt" = twat + cunt :shrug:



Clair De Lune said:


> I asked you a question....now you are getting all defensive in an I refuse to defend myself so I am leaving manner.


 
Basically, I saw these young people having fun and kidded myself I was still one of them and could be accepted as such. It's as simple (and maybe as sad) as that.

I think on some level too it may have been an authority issue on my part (I didn't want to be "in loco parentis" with my former class members). Anyway, it's in the past now.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

I thought you were flouncing?

*You said:*

HEY EVERYBODY I WANTED SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH A TEENAGER WHEN I WAS IN MY THIRTIES! I NOW REALISE THAT WAS SILLY.

*Others thought:*

WTF?!

*You said:*

Waaahhhh!



Basically if you're going to post something like that then be prepared for hte repercussions.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> Hardly offensive? "Twunt" = twat + cunt :shrug:




Yeah, but it's meant as a cutesy way of saying it. It's barely even swearing.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> Hardly offensive? "Twunt" = twat + cunt :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, I saw these young people having fun and kidded myself I was stiill one of them and could be acepted as such. It's as simple (and maybe as sad) as that.


 
Twunt is a pretty mild insult - the kind you'd use to a friend. Not exactly labelling for life.

Though if you'd managed to actually shag the girl, you could have ended up labelled for life. Hopefully someone would have pointed out the law to you before that happened.

And yeah, that is pretty sad. Admitting it isn't sad though.


----------



## hipipol (Sep 25, 2012)

He doin time man, expect mucho piss dinner for 10 plus years Teacher Twat


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> Hardly offensive? "Twunt" = twat + cunt :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think it's coming across as you brushing it off like it's no biggie, though. 
Therefore you don't seem that remorseful. You probably are, it's just that it doesn't show in your rationalizing of something most people would avoid like the plague (not to mention have no interest in to begin with) 
 What other reasons made you think it was ok to ask your former student out, other than thinking you were in love?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 25, 2012)

Have we had it?  for Meltingpot x


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> but you didn't start a thread about the actress you started one about her 15 year old character... who you wanted to nonce, even the editor got concerned enough to post on the thread questioning your posts.... as I recall...


 
her character was not 15 you lying cunt.

her character had left school in the show.

and the Editor's concern was more to do with cheap point scoring.


----------



## hipipol (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> I thought you were flouncing?
> 
> *You said:*
> 
> ...


You wanted to when you were fifteen
It wont stop cos you get older
However, just like you may want to kill Blair, you resist
Thats what grown ups do
To deny the impulse is what those likely to commit "sickness" do
Firks, you saint or unaware?


----------



## scifisam (Sep 25, 2012)

hipipol said:


> You wanted to when you were fifteen
> It wont stop cos you get older
> However, just like you may want to kill Blair, you resist
> Thats what grown ups do
> ...


 
I dunno, I reckon most people stop really wanting sex with teenagers when they're way past their teens themselves. Especially when you're teaching them and they're coming across as kids, rather than if you just met a teenager among adult company where they were acting more grown-up or if you just saw them on TV.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

I find it fairly hard to find any attraction in anyone who appears to be under about 25 tbf.

And if I wished to revist my teens I'd have a J. Arthur over Vanessa Paradis.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> I thought you were flouncing?
> 
> *You said:*
> 
> ...


 
The problem wasn't the wanting to have sex with a teenager, the problem was wanting to have relations with one who was previously a student and then making a clearly cackhanded attempt at it, as he has freely admitted. I'm not some moral relativist dickhead but I think it's off to jump on someone for something they have freely admitted to and deeply regret, it's just a bit cowardly and easy.

Now firky you are thirty, are you saying you don't find 17-20 year old girls sexually attractive?


----------



## scifisam (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> The problem wasn't the wanting to have sex with a teenager, the problem was wanting to have relations with one who was previously a student and then making a clearly cackhanded attempt at it, as he has freely admitted. I'm not some moral relativist dickhead but I think it's off to jump on someone for something they have freely admitted to and deeply regret, it's just a bit cowardly and easy.
> 
> Now firky you are thirty, are you saying you don't find 17-20 year old girls sexually attractive?


 
All he got was one very mild insult and some queries about his justifcation for asking her out. If he can;t handle that, then maybe taking a break is a good idea.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

hipipol said:


> You wanted to when you were fifteen
> It wont stop cos you get older
> However, just like you may want to kill Blair, you resist
> Thats what grown ups do
> ...


 

I'd much rather have a confident woman on the same level as me than some ditzy little girl who's still wet behind the ears and has still much to learn. You do get sexy teens though, I admit that. I don't have to be gay to recognise that Tom Daley probably turns heads from women twice his age. 

Maybe that is part of the attraction for some men, the ability to mould and manipulate them, they're quite emotionally vulnerable at that age? Maybe Helsinki syndrome kicks in?


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> her character was not 15 you lying cunt.
> 
> her character had left school in the show.
> 
> and the Editor's concern was more to do with cheap point scoring.


 
Even if her character was 15 I am sure you're quite capable of separating fiction from reality!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

@ Tom Daley



Stockholm, not Helsinki


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Helsinki if you did psychology @ newcastle college in the 90s 



revol68 said:


> Now firky you are thirty, are you saying you don't find 17-20 year old girls sexually attractive?


 


I think we have similar tastes, dude.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

scifisam said:


> All he got was one very mild insult and some queries about his justifcation for asking her out. If he can;t handle that, then maybe taking a break is a good idea.


 
Yeah I think he should have thicker skin but then I imagine it probably was a big deal for him to admit to that on the boards.

I was more expressing my disapproval for Orangutan, a poster who I think is a wishy washy wanker, jumping in and making pointless comments.


----------



## hipipol (Sep 25, 2012)

scifisam said:


> I dunno, I reckon most people stop really wanting sex with teenagers when they're way past their teens themselves. Especially when you're teaching them and they're coming across as kids, rather than if you just met a teenager among adult company where they were acting more grown-up or if you just saw them on TV.


Thats a nice little trope to settle your head but hardly born out by life
It may be worth looking at the idea of a "maths teacher"
Having seen his pic I doubt, tho this is obviously a nasty generic conclusion, that he had much by the way of female attention when he was young, he may have just be some totally un-socialised nerd, my initial response, rather than some outright deviant nonce
Only time will tell
I have been unsettled by some childs obvious sexual intent towards me as I have grown up, but thats what you do, you KNOW it aint right and turn aside, but it happens
Some are less able to ignore if they were always outside the knowing when the "correct" time occurred


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Helsinki if you did psychology @ newcastle college in the 90s


 
Did you shag the sexy Finnish teacher?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 25, 2012)

I have mates in their forties that chase 25 year old's, the relationships they have if their lucky seem shallow on the whole, but I can see what both parties might get out of it. I know one couple who are really in love and have been together a couple of years. I think 30-17 is borderline if its a teacher but meh really. 15 though is fucked up.

ETA how many of us have been out with adults with the emotional intelligence of a teenager


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> I'd much rather have a confident woman on the same level as me than some ditzy little girl who's still wet behind the ears and has still much to learn. You do get sexy teens though, I admit that. I don't have to be gay to recognise that Tom Daley probably turns heads from women twice his age.
> 
> Maybe that is part of the attraction for some men, the ability to mould and manipulate them, they're quite emotionally vulnerable at that age? Maybe Helsinki syndrome kicks in?


 
I dunno about that mould and manipulate thing, I mean I'm sure that is a common theme but I think for some the attraction is as meltingpoint admitted wanting to relive your teens, that certainly seems to be a motivating factor for many women who go with younger men/boys. Not to go all Guardian columnist but our society does celebrate youth and beauty is defined in large part in relation to that, with the breakdown of the patriarchal notions of masculinity (bread winner etc) men are increasingly being judged on this criteria too, couple that with greater independence for women and BOOM it's Cougar Town.

Basically if they're over 16 and consenting do what you want, sure it might be a mistake, sure you might make a dick of yourself, or get hurt or hurt them (not in a deliberate abusive way) but that's all part of life, people aren't china tea sets. Saying that don't expect not to get laughed at if you turn up with a 17 year old in a my chemical romance hoody on your arm.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Helsinki if you did psychology @ newcastle college in the 90s
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I know, that's why I asked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I dunno about that mould and manipulate thing, I mean I'm sure that is a common theme but I think for some the attraction is as meltingpoint admitted wanting to relive your teens, that certainly seems to be a motivating factor for many women who go with younger men/boys. Not to go all Guardian columnist but our society does celebrate youth and beauty is defined in large part in relation to that, with the breakdown of the patriarchal notions of masculinity (bread winner etc) men are increasingly being judged on this criteria too, couple that with greater independence for women and BOOM it's Cougar Town.


i'm not persuaded that this is as novel as you seem to think it is.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

IC3D said:


> I have mates in their forties that chase 25 year old's, the relationships they have if their lucky seem shallow on the whole, but I can see what both parties might get out of it. I know one couple who are really in love and have been together a couple of years. I think 30-17 is borderline if its a teacher but meh really. 15 though is fucked up.
> 
> ETA how many of us have been out with adults with the emotional intelligence of a teenager


 
That last point is a good one, I've had dates with some girls close to my own age who talked more shit and were less clued up than some 18-20 year olds I know.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not persuaded that this is as novel as you seem to think it is.


 
what's not as novel?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> what's not as novel?


the final point in the paragraph i quoted.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm going out with a 23 year old and i'm 34. Does this make me a wrong'un?


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

scifisam said:


> All he got was one very mild insult and some queries about his justifcation for asking her out. If he can't handle that, then maybe taking a break is a good idea.


 
The insult was the main problem (and I don't accept that it was mild).


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm going out with a 23 year old and i'm 34. Does this make me a wrong'un?


 
"Cashback!"


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 25, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Exactly. Whatever the circumstances there is a serious case of not holding back going on there. That's not normal.
> When something not sane happens, it makes you worry. This not sane guy runs off with your daughter, well it's going to make you wonder if he does something more insane.


 
I hadn't even contemplated that. It is not a comforting thought.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm going out with a 23 year old and i'm 34. Does this make me a wrong'un?


no, you're on the right side of the 2/3 rule.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the final point in the paragraph i quoted.


 
oh about older women with younger men, I'm sure it isn't anything new but I think it's now more culturally acceptable. But the wider point of the promotion of youthful beauty in men I think is borne out by the move away from the old craggy faced Hollywood leading men of the 30's-60's towards younger prettier actors.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm going out with a 23 year old and i'm 34. Does this make me a wrong'un?


 
It gives thirty-somethings hope.



revol68 said:


> I dunno about that mould and manipulate thing, I mean I'm sure that is a common theme but I think for some the attraction is as meltingpoint admitted wanting to relive your teens, that certainly seems to be a motivating factor for many women who go with younger men/boys. Not to go all Guardian columnist but our society does celebrate youth and beauty is defined in large part in relation to that, with the breakdown of the patriarchal notions of masculinity (bread winner etc) men are increasingly being judged on this criteria too, couple that with greater independence for women and BOOM it's Cougar Town.
> 
> Basically if they're over 16 and consenting do what you want, sure it might be a mistake, sure you might make a dick of yourself, or get hurt or hurt them (not in a deliberate abusive way) but that's all part of life, people aren't china tea sets. Saying that don't expect not to get laughed at if you turn up with a 17 year old in a my chemical romance hoody on your arm.


 
To be fair, it was the Irish with the Fureys that romanticised it all 




> I love you as I never lov'd before,
> Since first I met you on the village green.
> Come to me, e'er my dream of love is o'er.
> I love you as I lov'd you
> When you were sweet, when you were sweet sixteen.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> oh about older women with younger men, I'm sure it isn't anything new but I think it's now more culturally acceptable. But the wider point of the promotion of youthful beauty in men I think is borne out by the move away from the old craggy faced Hollywood leading men of the 30's-60's towards younger prettier actors.


more to do with wages. how much do you think someone who can actually act charges?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> no, you're on the right side of the 2/3 rule.


 
is it not half your age plus seven?

I'd be happy with the 2/3 rule though.


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 25, 2012)

general discussion about age differences is utterly irrelevant (and rather distasteful) on a thread which is mainly about abuse of a position of trust/power imho.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

I think the 10% rule should be raised to at least 25%  as well.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> is it not half your age plus seven?
> 
> I'd be happy with the 2/3 rule though.


*thinks* doesn't make much difference.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> more to do with wages. how much do you think someone who can actually act charges?


 
That marxism's soo crude it should be driving a T-34.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> That marxism's soo crude it should be driving a T-34.


what do you want in two short sentences? fucking capital?


----------



## spliff (Sep 25, 2012)

When I was a little over 30 and a parent already I had a fling with a 19 year old and she was so much more adult than me.

She could also get quality coke.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Do you not think that's a bit hysterical? According to everything that's been published, the relationship is relatively recent. She's 15. I know it's underage, and he's in a position of trust, but locking him up for life for that!?


It's not that recent if there was reports of them holding hands on the flight back from a school trip in February. That's at least 8 months, probably more.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

spliff said:


> When I was a little over 30 and a parent already I had a fling with a 19 year old and she was so much more adult than me.
> 
> She could also get quality coke.


 
You are an inspiration to all us man children.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 25, 2012)

hipipol said:


> Thats a nice little trope to settle your head but hardly born out by life
> It may be worth looking at the idea of a "maths teacher"
> Having seen his pic I doubt, tho this is obviously a nasty generic conclusion, that he had much by the way of female attention when he was young, he may have just be some totally un-socialised nerd, my initial response, rather than some outright deviant nonce
> Only time will tell
> ...


 
It is borne out by life. Bet you didn't read my whole post.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

does anyone hope she had an interview at some art school in Prague or summit and her parents had said no and this teacher has offered to take her there cos he see's real talent in her work or some other map cap but innocent explanation or is everyone assuming the guys a peado just because the girls under age... (i mean it probably is this but you know - state of the national mentality and all immediately thinking it's a child getting fucked rather than there might be another explanation...)


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> It's not that recent if there was reports of them holding hands on the flight back from a school trip in February. That's at least 8 months, probably more.


 
Tbh the fact the dickhead thought it was okay to hold hands on the way back form the school trip actually makes me think he is really just a very confused and stupid man child rather than a more sinister type.

Everyone knows proper nonces always whisper "This is our little secret, no one can ever know".


----------



## Jackobi (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> It gives thirty-somethings hope.


 
Isn't that a part of the problem, that men gauge their virility on the age of the woman they are seeing? The younger the woman, the more virile the man.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 25, 2012)

spliff said:


> When I was a little over 30 and a parent already I had a fling with a 19 year old and she was so much more adult than me.
> 
> She could also get quality coke.


I respect you so much right now.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> It's not that recent if there was reports of them holding hands on the flight back from a school trip in February. That's at least 8 months, probably more.


jean claude demenzes lept over the barriers, was wearing a heavy jacket and refused to obey the police too... yeah... oh wait...


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

spliff said:


> When I was a little over 30 and a parent already I had a fling with a 19 year old and she was so much more adult than me.
> 
> She could also get quality coke.


 
My previous was 19 when I first started going out with her, she was 20 when I dumped her - because of the age gap. She couldn't get good cake but she was a training to be a chef at a posh restaurant in newcastle which meant loads of 'homework' that I had to eat


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Tbh the fact the dickhead thought it was okay to hold hands on the way back form the school trip actually makes me think he is really just a very confused and stupid man child rather than a more sinister type.
> 
> Everyone knows proper nonces always whisper "This is our little secret, no one can ever know".


and they're often animal lovers, hence the 'come and see my puppy farm'.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> does anyone hope she had an interview at some art school in Prague or summit and her parents had said no and this teacher has offered to take her there cos he see's real talent in her work or some other map cap but innocent explanation or is everyone assuming the guys a peado just because the girls under age... (i mean it probably is this but you know - state of the national mentality and all immediately thinking it's a child getting fucked rather than there might be another explanation...)


 
Even better they became friends cos he's unhappy in his marriage and hasn't come to terms with his homosexuality...

But never mind that, how about you retract your little shit stirring lie suggesting I'm some sort of paedononce for fancying that actress from Skins.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> jean claude demenzes lept over the barriers, was wearing a heavy jacket and refused to obey the police too... yeah... oh wait...


any relation of jean charles de menezes?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Jackobi said:


> Isn't that a part of the problem, that men gauge their virility on the age of the woman they are seeing? The younger the woman, the more virile the man.


 
Back of the net!

Is it really a problem though, I mean anymore than middle aged men buying sports cars and guitars?


----------



## shagnasty (Sep 25, 2012)

Are a lot of arranged marriages between older men and younger girls.have known people who have lived with younger parties always had the feeling that the older party is insecure about it.bogey married lauren bacall and she was 25 years younger but they must have been happy ,and it was only his death that parted them


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Back of the net!
> 
> Is it really a problem though, I mean anymore than middle aged men buying sports cars and guitars?


let's see how auld the woman you're shagging is when you reach the august age of 40.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Jackobi said:


> Isn't that a part of the problem, that men gauge their virility on the age of the woman they are seeing? The younger the woman, the more virile the man.


 
Absofuckinglutely, and the more he sleeps with the better too.


----------



## spliff (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> My previous was 19 when I first started going out with her, she was 20 when I dumped her - because of the age gap. She couldn't get good cake but she was a training to be a chef at a posh restaurant in newcastle which meant loads of 'homework' that I had to eat


So I got thinner as you got fatter eh?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> let's see how auld the woman you're shagging is when you reach the august age of 40.


 
I'll be happy just to still be getting a shag.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> It's not that recent if there was reports of them holding hands on the flight back from a school trip in February. That's at least 8 months, probably more.


 
OK, 8 months.  I'd hazard a guess that their little 'thing' started on that trip.  Still doesn't mean he was noncing her since she was 12 or whatever I was responding to.

Funny, yours in the first on topic post for ages.  It's all about firky and revol's mid-life crises shags now.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> OK, 8 months. I'd hazard a guess that their little 'thing' started on that trip. Still doesn't mean he was noncing her since she was 12 or whatever I was responding to.
> 
> Funny, yours in the first on topic post for ages. It's all about firky and revol's mid-life crises shags now.


I'm just crushed because last night Firky was propositioning me and now it appears I've been cast aside *sobs*.

I'm keeping my mind off things by posting strictly on-topic


----------



## Espresso (Sep 25, 2012)

I reckoned when I heard it first that she's pregnant and that's why they've legged it. No, I have no evidence whatsoever for this. Not a scrap. It's just what I think.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

dp


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 25, 2012)

His recent blog posts about wrestling with morality, well I think those are pretty indicative of what's going through his mind. He knows it's wrong, this relationship/attraction but he's not stopping himself from acting on it.

Wonder when he got married? His wife must be utterly humiliated.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I'm just crushed because last night Firky was propositioning me and now it appears I've been cast aside *sobs*.
> 
> I'm keeping my mind off things by posting strictly on-topic


Are you older than 19? He dumps them at that age


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I'm just crushed because last night Firky was propositioning me and now it appears I've been cast aside *sobs*.
> 
> I'm keeping my mind off things by posting strictly on-topic


 
Put your hair in bunches and wear a hockey skirt.....

that's a bit inappropriate for this thread isn't it?  @ self


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Are you older than 19? He dumps them at that age


19 x 2 plus another 18 months


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Even better they became friends cos he's unhappy in his marriage and hasn't come to terms with his homosexuality...
> 
> But never mind that, how about you retract your little shit stirring lie suggesting I'm some sort of paedononce for fancying that actress from Skins.


you didn't say the actress at the time in fact there was quite a commotion where you justified it... in detail... I think for a while the editor got quite het up about the image you posted til he found out she was an older aged actress... but still why did you fancy her it wasn't for her age appropriate dress sense was it... pretty much everyone on here thinks your our resident chester you know... it's accepted common knowledge...


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Put your hair in bunches and wear a hockey skirt.....
> 
> that's a bit inappropriate for this thread isn't it?


Yes. Yes it is.

I see your new liver is assimilating nicely


----------



## Jackobi (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Back of the net!
> 
> Is it really a problem though, I mean anymore than middle aged men buying sports cars and guitars?


 
I suppose it isn't if you are happy to objectify women.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> 19 x 2 plus another 18 months


 
don't do sad face...you're pandering to the idolatry of youth sub-thread!


----------



## hipipol (Sep 25, 2012)

scifisam said:


> It is borne out by life. Bet you didn't read my whole post.


To be fair- no
I'm afraid, being an early adopter, I have managed to catch the first of the seasons flu type bugs, so am deeply knackered and dosed with cheapo over the counter bollocks - concentration span of sheep droppings....
Am off to kip - will read the whole tomorrow as no farking way am I going to work...
Nighty night, ect


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> I think it's coming across as you brushing it off like it's no biggie, though.
> 
> Therefore you don't seem that remorseful. You probably are, it's just that it doesn't show in your rationalizing of something most people would avoid like the plague (not to mention have no interest in to begin with)
> 
> What other reasons made you think it was ok to ask your former student out, other than thinking you were in love?


 
This is going to sound very geeky, but it's the best I can do for now;

There were whole dimensions of that situation that I wasn't aware of at the time, i.e. prior to asking her out. And when that is the case, all you have to act upon is what you are aware of at the time.

I wasn't aware of the fact that I was supposed to be in loco parentis to her (although in retrospect, I think I was dimly aware of it but repressed that knowledge / insight in favour of wanting to revisit my teens as I've said earlier).

I also didn't fully understand how threatened girls and women can feel by male interest / attention. I still struggle with that sometimes now tbh.

Once I'd finished teaching her I naively thought she would put the fact I'd been her teacher in the past. So it didn't seem to me that I needed to justify asking her out.

If she hadn't panicked I probably wouldn't have felt bad about it; it was her obvious distress at encountering me in the coffee shop later that month, after the meeting we had a week or so before in which she'd suggested we could be friends, which made me aware of what I'd done and made me feel remorseful.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> This is going to sound very geeky, but it's the best I can do for now;
> 
> There were whole dimensions of that situation that I wasn't aware of at the time, i.e. prior to asking her out. And when that is the case, all you have to act upon is what you are aware of.
> 
> ...


 
MP, I don't know you, and don't know how much you know everyone here, etc.  But if I was you, I'd not do any more explaining.  You've said you regret it, and still you got shit for it.  Explaining more will only give people more ammunition to use against you in future when it will no doubt be brought up again (see revel's defending a post from years ago even now). Just my 2p.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Now's a good time to zip it, melting pot.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> MP, I don't know you, and don't know how much you know everyone here, etc. But if I was you, I'd not do any more explaining. You've said you regret it, and still you got shit for it. Explaining more will only give people more ammunition to use against you in future when it will no doubt be brought up again (see revel's defending a post from years ago even now). Just my 2p.


 
Thanks, you're probably right.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 25, 2012)

Do French shops stock toning mist?


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> This is going to sound very geeky, but it's the best I can do for now;
> 
> There were whole dimensions of that situation that I wasn't aware of at the time, i.e. prior to asking her out. And when that is the case, all you have to act upon is what you are aware of at the time.
> 
> ...


Is it possible that sometimes having difficulty picking up/interpreting social clues contributed?


----------



## where to (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Wonder when he got married? His wife must be utterly humiliated.


 
i read around one year ago/ last year.  beyond belief really.

i hope the police are wise and this doesn't go from bad to catastrophic.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 25, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I find it fairly hard to find any attraction in anyone who appears to be under about 25 tbf.


I find it fairly hard to find any attraction in anyone who appears to be under about 55 tbf.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 25, 2012)

ddraig said:


> oh look! sas not been back to retract or apologise for his bullshit fact i see!


 
I stand corrected, it is in fact 14. ( Wiki )


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> The insult was the main problem (and I don't accept that it was mild).


Oh get over yourself, you silly sausage


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> This is going to sound very geeky, but it's the best I can do for now;
> 
> There were whole dimensions of that situation that I wasn't aware of at the time, i.e. prior to asking her out. And when that is the case, all you have to act upon is what you are aware of at the time.
> 
> ...


 
ok. 
still, I don't think we can extrapolate that this is always the case. 
there is having an impulse vs. acting on it.
most people have plenty of bizarre or whimsical or dangerous impulses from time to time for any number of reasons. 
anyway...


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2012)

Once got paid £20 to humilate the 40 something bloke who was romancing a teenage ballet dancer.
    Couple of choruses of Grandad soon had the saddo offering violence which never really impresses women.
Mission accomplished


----------



## Badgers (Sep 25, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:
			
		

> I find it fairly hard to find any attraction in anyone who appears to be under about 55 tbf.



Ageist


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> His recent blog posts abou*t wrestling with morality,* well I think those are pretty indicative of what's going through his mind. He knows it's wrong, this relationship/attraction but he's not stopping himself from acting on it.
> 
> Wonder when he got married? His wife must be utterly humiliated.


 
well, it's clear that immorality bounced him off of the ropes, clotheslined him on the return and then picked him up and tombstoned him into noncery. Vince McMann commentated.


----------



## Shirl (Sep 25, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I find it fairly hard to find any attraction in anyone who appears to be under about 55 tbf.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 25, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I find it fairly hard to find any attraction in anyone who appears to be under about 55 tbf.


 
I'm not attracted to anyone more than about 3 years younger than me. Not the looks but the life experience, maturity etc varies so much between when you're young to now, I mean I know that a few years ago and even into my twenties I was an annoying prick who would have driven anyone round the bend. I still am tbf


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you didn't say the actress at the time in fact there was quite a commotion where you justified it... in detail... I think for a while the editor got quite het up about the image you posted til he found out she was an older aged actress... but still why did you fancy her it wasn't for her age appropriate dress sense was it... pretty much everyone on here thinks your our resident chester you know... it's accepted common knowledge...


 
The character she played was 17 and left school, the actress was 18, what is age appropriate dress sense btw? is it odd for a 26 year old to find an 18 year old attractive? 

The editor was het up cause he was trying to score points cause I probably had a row with him about some shite or other, that was why he started throwing such bollocks about.

There was a running good natured joke between me, firky and a few others, that got jumped on by some dickheads with an axe to grind. And if I hadn't called you up on your bullshit in this thread you would have perpeuated some daft notion that I'm actually some sort of paedo nonce.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I'm not attracted to anyone more than about 3 years younger than me. Not the looks but the life experience, maturity etc varies so much between when you're young to now, I mean I know that a few years ago and even into my twenties I was an annoying prick who would have driven anyone round the bend. I still am tbf


 
So what you're saying is you only use the teenage boys for a bit of fun but wouldn't dream of going out with them 

Some of my female mates are mental about the age thing, one really liked this guy but because he was two years younger than him ended it, that was when she was 23 or something, now she's thirty though she seems to have got over that one and routinely bangs the younger men.

And 3 years is nothing frogwoman, there are 19 year olds more mature than me and my mates(or atleast I hope so).


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

apols for raising it revol, was meant in jest but others have it as bona fides of your position as king of all nonces


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> So what you're saying is you only use the teenage boys for a bit of fun but wouldn't dream of going out with them


 
nah, i'm not into anyone younger than 20.

On the topic, I've done a bit of work in schools and even when teaching adults you're not allowed to fucking shag your students, it's common sense,because you're in a position of responsibility as the teacher, the same as you wouldn't be allowed to shag your patients if you were a doctor. How the fuck do people not know this?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> So what you're saying is you only use the teenage boys for a bit of fun but wouldn't dream of going out with them


D'you know, sleeping with a teenager just doesn't appeal to me on *any* level. 

Perhaps that's related to being teetotal


----------



## wtfftw (Sep 25, 2012)

What? Revol isn't a nonce? But he liked my picture once (maybe) and I took it as an age related compliment.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> apols for raising it revol, was meant in jest but others have it as bona fides of your position as king of all nonces


 
nah, like i said, it was just a running joke between me, you, firky and madusa that got jumped on by dickheads.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

I wish Madusa was still around, she's the best dickhead I've ever met. Total fucking geek too


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

wtfftw said:


> What? Revol isn't a nonce? But he liked my picture once (maybe) and I took it as an age related compliment.


 

In the kangaroo court, the wallaby jury are still bouncing on a decision


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 25, 2012)

aye i don't care so much about the age thing, not to the extent some do. I agree some 19 year olds are really mature, a lot more so than some people i know who are older than me


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> nah, i'm not into anyone younger than 20.
> 
> On the topic, I've done a bit of work in schools and even when teaching adults you're not allowed to fucking shag your students, it's common sense,because you're in a position of responsibility as the teacher, the same as you wouldn't be allowed to shag your patients if you were a doctor. How the fuck do people not know this?


 
You can bang a student if they are an adult, Im pretty certain of that, not sure on the Doctor thing, probably some sort of conflict of interest and best practice thing but it's not illegal or owt.

But yeah not fucking a 15 year old student, that's basic.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> nah, like i said, it was just a running joke between me, you, firky and madusa that got jumped on by dickheads.


Good to take the opportunity to set the record straight, eh.


I met my husband when I was 21 and he was 15 years older than me. I know the difference between 15 and 21 can be a hell of a lot in terms of psychological and emotional maturity, but a lot depends on the individuals. I think the key issue (on topic) is more about abuse of authority.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

My tutor at uni would often get dragged out to the pub by a pile of girls and end up getting pissed. He was very well behaved but you could sometimes tell he felt very awkward and shy at times amongst all these twenty year old girls. They could see it too and some of them teased him about it - which made him worse. Poor sod 

They were in their early 20s and he was in his early 30s.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> My tutor at uni would often get dragged out to the pub by a pile of girls and end up getting pissed. He was very well behaved but you could sometimes tell he felt very awkward and shy at times amongst all these twenty year old girls. They could see it too and some of them teased him about it - which made him worse. Poor sod
> 
> They were in their early 20s and he was in his early 30s.


 
Was he in a relationship or just not realise he was free to bang them? I mean that's the point of being a tutor, no?


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Married with kids. He was Hungarian and they loved his accent.

My housemate (who looked like Liv Tyler) was the biggest tease.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> My tutor at uni would often get dragged out to the pub by a pile of girls and end up getting pissed. He was very well behaved but you could sometimes tell he felt very awkward and shy at times amongst all these twenty year old girls. They could see it too and some of them teased him about it - which made him worse. Poor sod
> 
> They were in their early 20s and he was in his early 30s.


 
I don't think it's illegal but it's unprofessional and you would probably be sacked for it.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I don't think it's illegal but it's unprofessional and you would probably be sacked for it.


 
professionalism is a middle class construct anyway!


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Married with kids. He was Hungarian and they loved his accent.
> 
> My housemate (who looked like Liv Tyler) was the biggest tease.


 
It must have been rubbed down to a stump.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 25, 2012)

It's not illegal but it's really not very appropriate.

It seems the school has a history of child protection issues; two people who worked at the school have been jailed for fiddling with the kids.  The fact a pupil reported concerns and nothing was followed up about it is appalling.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I don't think it's illegal but it's unprofessional and you would probably be sacked for it.


 
I think it did go on, I often used to see one tutor who reminds me of Steve Hilton ( or if you prefer Stewart from Thick of It), with one of the mature students. It's bound to happen when you put sexually active people together in an environment and situation where they're almost forced to interact and be civil with each other. Our soul purpose in life after all is to procreate!


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> professionalism is a middle class construct anyway!


 
Sounds like the next Proletarian Democracy position paper


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> professionalism is a middle class construct anyway!


 
Yeah but prison ain't.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah but prison ain't.


 
You can't get sent to prison for banging a 20 year old student.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Sounds like the next Proletarian Democracy position paper


 
I'd happily write it but I fear the joke would be lost on the likes of garfield le cunt.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You can't get sent to prison for banging a 20 year old student.


 
Well that's the rest of my evening sorted then.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Our soul purpose in life after all is to procreate!


Our soul?
Our sole?
Are soul?
Are sole?

Arsehole


----------



## OneStrike (Sep 25, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I find it fairly hard to find any attraction in anyone who appears to be under about 55 tbf.


Talk to my hands,  no, really.  I'd have to make you talk to my hands, they look like i've been a builder for 55+years.  They did when I was 18.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> Our soul?
> Our sole?
> Are soul?
> Are sole?
> ...


 
I typed sole but auto complete changed it to soul


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> I typed sole but auto complete changed it to soul


Thought you was getting all religious on us, in addition to that hardwired evo stuff


----------



## love detective (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You can't get sent to prison for banging a 20 year old student.


 
But you should get sent to prison for being one


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> I typed sole but auto complete changed it to soul


 
You muppet, that was your chance to pretend to be doing a Derrida and playing on the words, that banging isn't simply our sole reason but our soul reason too, at once base and physical and spiritual and transcendental.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

love detective said:


> But you should get sent to prison for being one


 
says an accountant


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You muppet, that was your chance to pretend to be doing a Derrida and playing on the words, that banging isn't simply our sole reason but our soul reason too, at once base and physical and spiritual and transcendental.


 
Haha, that sounds eerily like the kind of nonsense they tell you in a cult.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You muppet, that was your chance to pretend to be doing a Derrida and playing on the words, that banging isn't simply our sole reason but our soul reason too, at once base and physical and spiritual and transcendental.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You muppet, that was your chance to pretend to be doing a Derrida and playing on the words, that banging isn't simply our sole reason but our soul reason too, at once base and physical and spiritual and transcendental.



Would have shot his board cred to bits at the same time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Haha, that sounds eerily like the kind of nonsense they tell you in a cult.


or some sort of semioticks lecture


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


>




One of the only three good Stone Roses songs.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

There were three?!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> One of the only three good Stone Roses songs.


i am saving the other two for the time being


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> Would have shot his board cred to bits at the same time.


 
I'd have high fived him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> There were three?!!


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> There were three?!!


 
this is the one,
I want to be adored...


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> Would have shot his board cred to bits at the same time.


 
For impersonating the French!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

resurrection ftw


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I'd have high fived him.


You would have sort of high fived him before laying into him for whatever bit he got wrong.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> For impersonating the French!


For use of philo jargon


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> For impersonating the French!


 
He was Algerian


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> He was Algerian


You forgot the high five


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> You would have sort of high fived him before laying into him for whatever bit he got wrong.


 like that...


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> He was Algerian


 
Learn something new everyday!


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

I was chuffed that I got the Derrida reference to be honest. q


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Learn something new everyday!


 
well french algerian (before independence).


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> well french algerian (before independence).


pied noir


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

if I was a philosopher I'd smoke a pipe too.


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> pied noir


Racist French term they still use, aye.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> if I was a philosopher I'd smoke a pipe too.


i bet you do now anyway


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> pied noir


 
Were arabic speaking jews classed as pied noir?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Were arabic speaking jews classed as pied noir?


what about french algerian jews with some facility in arabick?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well I can safely say this thread is now more of a train wreck than that teachers career.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Well I can safely say this thread is now more of a train wreck than that teachers career.


nothing is more of a train wreck than that teacher's career.






that ^^ is less of a train crash than the teacher's career.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> what about french algerian jews with some facility in arabick?


 
that's the damn problem with these racist terms they lack precision and rigour.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> that's the damn problem with these racist terms they lack precision and rigour.


and what about british generals with some facility in arabick, like general lucas, as was taken prisoner by the ira?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i bet you do now anyway


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


>


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> what about french algerian jews with some facility in arabick?


 
wikipedia has the answer.



> In 1870, Justice MinisterAdolphe Crémieux wrote a proposal, _décret Crémieux_, giving French citizenship to Algerian Jews. Thus, the Jews of Algeria came to be considered part of the _Pied-Noir_ community.[22] This advancement was resisted by part of the larger _Pied-Noir_ community. In 1897 a wave of anti-Semitic riots occurred in Algeria. During World War II the _décret Crémieux_ was abolished under the Vichy regime, and Jews were barred from professional jobs.[21] Citizenship was restored in 1943. Many Jews fled the country in 1962, alongside most other _Pieds-Noirs_, after the Algerian War.[23]


 
So technically pied noirs in law.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> So technically pied noirs in law.


you make it sound as though they were only pied noirs on a technicality.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> you make it sound as though they were only pied noirs on a technicality.


 
aye, in pied noir society but not of it.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> pied noir


 
Unrelated but...

The Colonel in Avatar reminded me of the Colonel in Battle for Algiers. Maybe the little blue guys were really Arabs?



Pickman's model said:


> i bet you do now anyway


 

Nah, not these days. The occasional spliff here and there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> aye, in pied noir society but not of it.


but do you mean algerian jews, that is jews from algeria who were not previously french citizens, as opposed to jews from metropolitan france such as dreyfus? that is, if dreyfus had moved from devil's island to algeria would he have been a pied noir?


----------



## cesare (Sep 25, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pied-noir

I wonder how many times that article has been discussed and changed


----------



## Superdupastupor (Sep 25, 2012)

pied noir. 

back on topic for the school teacher that has run away to France with a child


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Superdupastupor said:


> pied noir.
> 
> back on topic for the school teacher that has run away to France with a child


 
Summation:

Banging 15 year olds is never OK. Finding them sexually attractive is morally dubious if said out loud, but is considered normal if they are only thoughts.

Banging 16 year olds is morally dubious, but you can get away with it as it's legal. People will think you're a nonce, and the 16 year old will probably be annoying as fuck, but you're most likely suffering from some maturity issues, so you won't care. If you're in a position of authority, then this is as bad as banging someone under the age of consent and you're a paedo-nonce who should hang.

The same rules apply until they're 20, when the half your age plus 7 or 2 thirds your age kicks in, unless the person in question is 19 and a bartender or Olympic diver.

Over twenty, anything goes, as long as it's within the above mentioned rules, or you're a famous actor/musician/artist.

All these rules apply only to men and young girls. No one gives a shit if a young boy fucks an older women, as long as it's kept quiet.

I think I've got all the bases covered there.


----------



## Sue (Sep 25, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You can't get sent to prison for banging a 20 year old student.


 
Romance is not dead.

Banging? FFS.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Sue said:


> Romance is not dead.
> 
> Banging? FFS.


 
Isn't that one of the key points of this sort of thing.  It's usually not romance (at least on the part of the older party).  They just want to shag a younger girl.  The younger party may believe they are in love, but no one else does and then they grow up/realise.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Summation:
> 
> Banging 15 year olds is never OK. Finding them sexually attractive is morally dubious if said out loud, but is considered normal if they are only thoughts.
> 
> ...


 
Read this twice because it is so succinct


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Summation:
> 
> Banging 15 year olds is never OK. Finding them sexually attractive is morally dubious if said out loud, but is considered normal if they are only thoughts.
> 
> ...


i think you need a bit more about power here.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Read this twice because it is so succinct


 
I'm gonna print it out so my mam can put it on the fridge.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I'm gonna print it out so my mam can put it on the fridge.


once you've put some more about power in it


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Can anyone remember that female teacher which got done for grooming that 13 year old kid?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Can anyone remember that female teacher which got done for grooming that 13 year old kid?


which one?


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Can anyone remember that female teacher which got done for grooming that 13 year old kid?


 
Found it:



> Religious education teacher Kathryn Roach has been found guilty of inciting a 14-year-old schoolboy to engage in sexual behaviour. The 24-year-old sent more than 200 "inappropriate" text messages to the teenager when she taught at Thornleigh Salesian College in Bolton, a court found.


 

linky


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> once you've put some more about power in it


 
OK, I thought you'd take it as the joke it was meant to be, but seeing as you aren't: I think mostly what I wrote is right. Not right as in morally right, but right as in the limits of social acceptability. People in this country generally don't give a shit about analysing power relations. I've never heard it mentioned outside of the internet/u75.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Is this a forum for teachers who bang pupiles?

http://www.iheartmyteacher.org/index.php#other-escapades-sexcapades.31



That is seriously fucked up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> OK, I thought you'd take it as the joke it was meant to be, but seeing as you aren't: it's mostly what I wrote is right. Not right as in morally right, but right as in the limits of social acceptability. People in this country generally don't give a shit about analysing power relations. I've never heard it mentioned outside of the internet/u75.


i was thinking something along the lines of 'it's also wrong if you're in a formal position of influence / status over your partner, esp. where they're at school'. i'm sure you can put it better though.

what you wrote's pretty good, and much better than just a joke: i did get it but i felt it had wider value.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i was thinking something along the lines of 'it's also wrong if you're in a formal position of influence / status over your partner, esp. where they're at school'. i'm sure you can put it better though.
> 
> what you wrote's pretty good, and much better than just a joke: i did get it but i felt it had wider value.


 
Thanks, but that was my one shot at writing something interest (comes every 4 years).  I'd add to it, but I'd ruin it.  Sorry for not getting you


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Thanks, but that was my one shot at writing something interest (comes every 4 years). I'd add to it, but I'd ruin it. Sorry for not getting you


fair play


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> Is this a forum for teachers who bang pupiles?
> 
> http://www.iheartmyteacher.org/index.php#other-escapades-sexcapades.31
> 
> ...


 
What the fuck have you found there?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> What the fuck have you found there?


forgive him, fez, for he knows not what he does.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2012)

Meltingpot said:


> The insult was the main problem (and I don't accept that it was mild).


 
Getting called a twunt on urban is mild. I reckon you're chatting shit, that's not the reason for your quasi-flounce really. If you do flounce on account of being called a twunt, you will then become a dickwipe fucktard knobjockey.


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 25, 2012)

kebabking said:


> question: lets say he takes her to a country where she can give consent, they do the deed, and in that country at least, its legal, he's not a nonce etc..
> 
> whats the score with the UK legislation that allows the UK to prosecute those who go on kiddy-fiddling 'holidays' to Thailand and the like - even though the kiddy-fiddling did not occur in the UK? how does that mesh with the rights of UK citizens to go elsewhere in the EU and do things that are legal in X country, but not in the UK?
> 
> feel sorry for the wife tbh...


sexual offences act 2003 - it doesn't need to be recognised as a sex crime in the country it takes place in for a UK national to get nicked for it under UK law.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Getting called a twunt on urban is mild. I reckon you're chatting shit, that's not the reason for your quasi-flounce really. If you do flounce on account of being called a twunt, you will then become a dickwipe fucktard knobjockey.


you're restrained tonight.


----------



## Firky (Sep 25, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> What the fuck have you found there?


 
I was looking for a link to that RE teacher from Bolton and came across it. 

Makes me wonder if people objectively go into teaching to groom (well of course they do, it's just not pleasant when you see the proof).


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

purves grundy said:


> sexual offences act 2003 - it doesn't need to be recognised as a sex crime in the country it takes place in for a UK national to get nicked for it under UK law.


 
What happens if: you're born in UK to UK parents...full UK citizenship.  You move to France or Spain or somewhere where the age consent is much lower when you're, say 10. You grow up with this new country's rules and when you're old enough you engage in a sexual act that would be illegal in the UK due to your age.

Surely the UK plod can't just extradite you back to the UK to face charges, can they? (I realise this is a mad, never-gonna-happen scenario - just curious). 

Are there any other laws on the books except sex offender stuff that you can be done for if you do it abroad?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2012)

firky said:


> I was looking for a link to that RE teacher from Bolton and came across it.
> 
> Makes me wonder if people objectively go into teaching to groom (well of course they do, it's just not pleasant when you see the proof).


 
I had a look at the first few posts and it seems to be a site for exposing dodgy teachers (you may have already realised this, just shocked that there's so many?)

A lot of the posts have nothing to do with peado stuff, either.


----------



## corieltauvi (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> What the fuck have you found there?


I'm going to have to bleach my brain after seeing that... and bleach my hard drive


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I had a look at the first few posts and it seems to be a site for exposing dodgy teachers (you may have already realised this, just shocked that there's so many?)
> 
> A lot of the posts have nothing to do with peado stuff, either.


 
Exposing or some kind of solidarity, to be honest I didn't want to dig too deep because my initial reaction was 'yuck'.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> *I had a look at the first few posts and it seems to be a site for exposing dodgy teachers* (you may have already realised this, just shocked that there's so many?)
> 
> A lot of the posts have nothing to do with peado stuff, either.


 
um...yeah, except that it's all pink and hearts behind bars & stuff.  

It's actually all about teachers being "naughty" and it seems like it's fetishizing that. 
there's things like the teacher whose crime was driving topless. The moderator posted her name, address, and phone number. 

truly creepy


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Makes me wonder if people objectively go into teaching to groom (well of course they do, it's just not pleasant when you see the proof).


 
Man, that makes me sad that people think teachers choose to be teacher so they can groom.  I'm not quite that cynical, yet.  Surely when you're at the age you decide to be a teacher, you're too young to know you are a paedo, so couldn't/wouldn't make the calculated decision to get a job where you're in contact with kids for that reason.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Exposing or some kind of solidarity, to be honest I didn't want to dig too deep because my initial reaction was 'yuck'.





Miss Caphat said:


> um...yeah, except that it's all pink and hearts behind bars & stuff.
> 
> It's actually all about teachers being "naughty" and it seems like it's fetishizing that.
> there's things like the teacher whose crime was driving topless. The moderator posted her name, address, and phone number.
> ...


 
Yeah, it's not obvious what it is, and that's what makes it weird.  But I think it's a vigilante/expose thing.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Man, that makes me sad that people think teachers choose to be teacher so they can groom. I'm not quite that cynical, yet. Surely when you're at the age you decide to be a teacher, you're too young to know you are a paedo, so couldn't/wouldn't make the calculated decision to get a job where you're in contact with kids for that reason.


 
Pedophilia / grooming is not just something 'old' people do.  Children sexually abuse other children, teenagers groom younger teenagers. 

I don't think the decision made is quite as conscious as firky's suggestion, but there is undoubtably an attraction to the power the job affords and the proximity to children and the trust the public has in you, so I think he is right to make the connection for sure.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Yeah, it's not obvious what it is, and that's what makes it weird. But I think it's a vigilante/expose thing.


 
um...I guess. If you'd consider a website decorated with men in bottomless chaps and mustaches* featuring stories about secretly gay men a "vigilante/expose thing" 



*ok, I know I'm exagerrating, but really, the design of the site is very suspicious to say the least. It does not seem at all appropriate for a website whose purpose is to list teachers who are also offenders .


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> Pedophilia / grooming is not just something 'old' people do. Children sexually abuse other children, teenagers groom younger teenagers.
> 
> I don't think the decision made is quite as conscious as firky's suggestion, but there is undoubtably an attraction to the power the job affords and the proximity to children and the trust the public has in you, so I think he is right to make the connection for sure.


 
OK, I think I should have said I am naive rather than less cynical, then.  The whole power thing, as Pickman's pointed out earlier, is not something I've considered enough.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> um...I guess. If you'd consider a website decorated with men in bottomless chaps and mustaches* featuring stories about secretly gay men a "vigilante/expose thing"
> 
> 
> 
> *ok, I know I'm exagerrating, but really, the design of the site is very suspicious to say the least. It does not seem at all appropriate for a website whose purpose is to list teachers who are also offenders .


 
Agreed.  But that's exactly what it is doing.  Check the Introductions page and the articles listed.  The only conclusions I could draw from that is either expose site (not just paedo stuff). What else could it be?


----------



## scifisam (Sep 26, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> Pedophilia / grooming is not just something 'old' people do. Children sexually abuse other children, teenagers groom younger teenagers.
> 
> I don't think the decision made is quite as conscious as firky's suggestion, but there is undoubtably an attraction to the power the job affords and the proximity to children and the trust the public has in you, so I think he is right to make the connection for sure.


 
I don't think he was saying that all teachers are wannabe paedos, though, unless he was accusing lots of us on this site.

TBH, although I'm sure a few paedophiles go into teaching because it's a way to get near kids, I'd expect teachers to be far less likely to casually fancy teenagers than the general populace. Teaching teenagers makes it harder to look at a picture of some supposedly hot teen star and find it sexy when it looks like a pic of the kid who was last seen wiping their bogeys under the science table.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Agreed. But that's exactly what it is doing. Check the Introductions page and the articles listed. The only conclusions I could draw from that is either expose site (not just paedo stuff). What else could it be?


 
just like I said, I think it's fetishizing it.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

Sue said:


> Romance is not dead.
> 
> Banging? FFS.


 
Alright then, pounding.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> just like I said, I think it's fetishizing it.


 
Fetishing what, though?  That site covers everything from paedo to drugs to assault.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Fetishing what, though? That site covers everything from paedo to drugs to assault.


 
dude...never mind  are you really this dense?


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

_*>>> Dumb As A Rock!!! <<<*_
_*>>> This complete idiot taught your children for thirty years!!! <<<*_

_I'll be adding more links, articles & info to this thread over the next few days, but this guy is the ultimate clueless loser. This bozo taught in numerous schools in the St. Louis, Missouri, area over a thirty-year period, shagged a number of his females student and never got caught. Upon retirement he moved to Ely, Minnesota. After a couple years, thinking that the statute of limitations had expired (it hadn't ), he called the authorities in the St. Louis area "to clear his conscience"._

_*>>> Busted!!! <<<*_


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

sorry, I couldn't get out of that font after c&p-ing. anyway, notice in the above what the message is? The pedophile is a moron for getting caught.

Do they mention that he was a bad person? nope. just over and over again, how 'clueless' he is for not understanding the statute of limitations and turning himself in.

I rest my case.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> sorry, I couldn't get out of that font after c&p-ing. anyway, notice in the above what the message is? The pedophile is a moron for getting caught.
> 
> Do they mention that he was a bad person? nope. just over and over again, how 'clueless' he is for not understanding the statute of limitations and turning himself in.
> 
> I rest my case.


 
OK, I guess I am "that dense."  But humour me: what are they fetishing in this guy:

"*Sydney teacher Graham Williams appears in a Gold Coast court after he was arrested on a Jetstar filght for refusing to stow his bum bag under the seat"*


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

I haven't checked that forum cos I don't fancy getting my door kicked down and my pc taken by the police but I think Fez909 is saying that the site covers teachers bad behaviour across the whole spectrum and isn't some sort of fetish site for teachers banging their students.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 26, 2012)

What have you done to my thread ?

You changed the title and now all this!

A 15 year old schoolgirl is abroad with her teacher, a man twice her age, and it does not seem at the moment that he is exactly bringing her home. It is actually quite serious.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> OK, I guess I am "that dense." But humour me: what are they fetishing in this guy:
> 
> "*Sydney teacher Graham Williams appears in a Gold Coast court after he was arrested on a Jetstar filght for refusing to stow his bum bag under the seat"*


 
sorry, that was rude of me. 
I'm supposed to be doing something else, so I'm getting frustrated that this has sucked me in. 

as far as these other stories, I think they're thrown in there to make it seem like the site is just about reporting _any_ type of criminal activity by teachers.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> What have you done to my thread ?
> 
> You changed the title and now all this!
> 
> A 15 year old schoolgirl is abroad with her teacher, a man twice her age, and it does not seem at the moment that he is exactly bringing her home. It is actually quite serious.


 
if only we all cared as much as you did nothing bad would happen in the world.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> What have you done to my thread ?
> 
> You changed the title and now all this!
> 
> A 15 year old schoolgirl is abroad with her teacher, a man twice her age, and it does not seem at the moment that he is exactly bringing her home. It is actually quite serious.


Apologies, it's partly my fault. I've been posting on here all day because I've been bored and I always regret that I miss out on the main action on the big contentious threads. I saw this one early and got in there 

Although, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Your thread wasn't going to bring her home.


----------



## Miss Caphat (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> What have you done to my thread ?
> 
> You changed the title and now all this!
> 
> A 15 year old schoolgirl is abroad with her teacher, a man twice her age, and it does not seem at the moment that he is exactly bringing her home. It is actually quite serious.


 
you mean your pedo story is better than ours? 



I actually am pretty concerned about the creepy website. It's not a joke or attempt to derail.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

There's no way I'm clicking on that link!


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> you mean your pedo story is better than ours?
> 
> 
> 
> I actually am pretty concerned about the creepy website. It's not a joke or attempt to derail.


 
If it helps you allay your fears, you should notice that there's only really one person who posts on that forum.  So, even if it _is_ a paedo-advocacy group, there's no wide readership.  Sadly, we've probably doubled or tripled the visitor count just from urban tonight.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> There's no way I'm clicking on that link!


 
It's nothing illegal.  Just had a creepy 'vibe' to it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

That's not the point


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> If it helps you allay your fears, you should notice that there's only really one person who posts on that forum.  So, even if it _is_ a paedo-advocacy group, there's no wide readership.  Sadly, we've probably doubled or tripled the visitor count just from urban tonight.



There's probably hidden forums for approved members.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> There's probably hidden forums for approved members.


It is now your mission to infiltrate


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> What have you done to my thread ?
> 
> You changed the title and now all this!
> 
> A 15 year old schoolgirl is abroad with her teacher, a man twice her age, and it does not seem at the moment that he is exactly bringing her home. It is actually quite serious.


Look on the bright side - you've changed your original focus, so how the thread's developed can't be all bad.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 26, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> It is now your mission to infiltrate


 
DAILY MAIL: Baby Eating Anarchist Website Sends Delegate to PAEDO-BEAST Advocacy Website


----------



## free spirit (Sep 26, 2012)

I've heard firky called a lot of things, but that's the first time I've heard him referred to as a delegate.

can we not send him in to release his inner troll instead?


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

free spirit said:


> I've heard firky called a lot of things, but that's the first time I've heard him referred to as a delegate.
> 
> can we not send him in to release his inner troll instead?


----------



## weltweit (Sep 26, 2012)

It seems the school that the girl is a student in and the man a teacher does not have a very good safeguarding record:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19717837


> In 2009, a teacher from the school was jailed for grooming pupils and in March it emerged a retired priest had been allowed to remain as a governor despite child sex allegations against him.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 26, 2012)

Bishops bell school fnar fnar


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> What have you done to my thread ?
> 
> You changed the title and now all this!
> 
> A 15 year old schoolgirl is abroad with her teacher, a man twice her age, and it does not seem at the moment that he is exactly bringing her home. It is actually quite serious.


 
That'll teach you for posting it in the general forum. 

UK politics, current affairs and news forum >>>>>>


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Sep 26, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> pedo


paedo....


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Are there any other laws on the books except sex offender stuff that you can be done for if you do it abroad?


Erm, even if its legal elsewhere, I *think* under measures of either the SOA 1997 or 2003, you can be prosecuted in the uk if it'd be illegal in the uk.


----------



## Cid (Sep 26, 2012)

Child abduction act also applies I think.


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> What happens if: you're born in UK to UK parents...full UK citizenship. You move to France or Spain or somewhere where the age consent is much lower when you're, say 10. You grow up with this new country's rules and when you're old enough you engage in a sexual act that would be illegal in the UK due to your age.
> 
> Surely the UK plod can't just extradite you back to the UK to face charges, can they? (I realise this is a mad, never-gonna-happen scenario - just curious).
> 
> Are there any other laws on the books except sex offender stuff that you can be done for if you do it abroad?


Not sure, that might stand or fall on whether you're non-resident, although the law as it's written refers to UK Nationals. I'm far from being an expert in this, Fez!


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

Cid said:


> Child abduction act also applies I think.


Indeed


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Wonder when he got married? His wife must be utterly humiliated.


 
I reckon shes got pretty good grounds for divorce.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19725791


> Grooming pupils
> Campaigner Lucy Duckworth said she wrote to Michael Gove about Bishop Bell School months ago, fearing its protection policy was inadequate.........
> Ms Duckworth's concerns followed a separate incident in 2009, in which a teacher at Bishop Bell was jailed for starting a sexual relationship with two teenage pupils.
> PE teacher Robert Healy was jailed for seven years after grooming them on social networking site Bebo.
> Meanwhile, it has been confirmed that Sussex Police were made aware of concerns over Megan's relationship with Mr Forrest, an amateur musician from Ringmer, near Lewes, last week.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-17389382


> BBC Home Affairs correspondent Colin Campbell said Mr Rideout was suspended from working in churches in September 2010 after a Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) check revealed Mr Rideout had been arrested in 2001 on suspicion of abuse in the 1960s and 1970s.
> He said East Sussex County Council and the school were also notified about the CRB check, but Mr Rideout continued as chairman of governors at the school until November 2011.


 
There's going to be some very interesting PTA meeting and parents evenings in this place The rest of the staff must be sick as fuck. I wonder how many of them leave Bishops and Bells off their CV when they're applying for other posts.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I reckon shes got pretty good grounds for divorce.


Only been married for a year I think I read. The poor woman


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2012)

fuck me,all they need is Huntley as caretaker to make the ring complete.


----------



## crustychick (Sep 26, 2012)

knowing what we know, it makes this song on his blog sound well dodgy http://jeremyayremusic.com/music/


----------



## crustychick (Sep 26, 2012)

holy crap, and the rest...

http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> knowing what we know, it makes this song on his blog sound well dodgy http://jeremyayremusic.com/music/


'Be the first to like this.'


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> holy crap, and the rest...
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music


 
He actually sounds obsessed with her which is potentially extremely dangerous.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

I hope when they catch him that they ensure he's never allowed to be within a 4 mile radius of a stringed instrument ever again


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 26, 2012)

mentalist


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> He actually sounds obsessed with her which is potentially extremely dangerous.


 

what gave you that idea? the song, or the whole eloping to france and chucking his career, marriage and eventually liberty away?


----------



## crustychick (Sep 26, 2012)

I wonder what his poor wife thought these songs were all about?! http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music/starsigns


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

I stand by my previous post


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm going out with a 23 year old and i'm 34. Does this make me a wrong'un?


 
Only if you started going out with her when you were 25.


----------



## gentlegreen (Sep 26, 2012)

*"All My Friends Are Astronauts"*


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> I wonder what his poor wife thought these songs were all about?! http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music/starsigns


Check his followers. Is that the young lady in question in his fan base?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Everyone knows proper nonces always whisper "This is our little secret, no one can ever know".


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

Sorry  but some comments from the Sun website



> could be a needle in a haystack, 2 British people heading south, if they were coming into Britain they would stick out like a sore thumb amongst the new lot


 


> she is 15 but looks very mature!! mums and dads why do you let your under 16s dress as if they were 26??? and then complian they are seeing older men??





> Teachers are not supposed to screw the pupil, especially under age


 
They go on and on....


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Even better they became friends cos he's unhappy in his marriage and hasn't come to terms with his homosexuality....


 
...and she'll eventually write a memoir entitled "I Was a Teenage Fag Hag".


----------



## Oriole (Sep 26, 2012)

SaskiaJayne said:


> Age of consent in France is 15 but they do have similar law to UK regarding sexual relations between teachers/students, so it will be interesting to see if the French cops do arrest him or not.


 
If he went to France on that basis, he might find he made a bit of a tactical error (although crediting him with a plan is probably giving him more sense then he actually has).

By taking her away against her parent's wishes he has committed a "détournement de mineur" as she is under 18. This is applicable whether they did have sex or not as it is about taking her from the people who are legally responsible for her. That gets you 5 to 10 years according to the Code Penal.

Also in France, the 15 age doesn't apply if the person the minor is having sex with is in a position of authority. The usual tarrif is 7 years even if there was no "violence, constraint or surprise". 

"*Si le mineur a plus de 15 ans, l'infraction n'est plus constitué sauf exceptions prévues en la matière: si l'individu est un ascendant légitime, naturel ou adoptif, ou toute autre personne ayant autorité sur le mineur; si la personne abuse de l'autorité que lui confère ses fonctions; ou si le mineur souffre d'une particulière vulnérabilité (art. 227-27 et 222-29  nouveau code pénal), cas par exemple d'une agression faite par un parent, un beau-parent ou un professeur."*


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh, hello, the transcribed lyrics of Mr Forrest Ayre.

http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2012/09/jeremy-ayre/

Hadn't come across 'my little emo' on soundcloud.

And ^^^ that is a lot less painful than sitting through them. Bleh.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 26, 2012)

Any wild speculation yet? 

They went to France and then travelled elsewhere from there to leave a false trail.


----------



## crustychick (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Check his followers. Is that the young lady in question in his fan base?


yeah, I thought that, maybe...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> yeah, I thought that, maybe...


mermaiddimples?

If so, yes.

e2a: according to the lyrics site.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

I wondered earlier in the thread how much money they have. Nothing has been reported on that has it?


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

Oriole said:


> If he went to France on that basis, he might find he made a bit of a tactical error (although crediting him with a plan is probably giving him more sense then he actually has).
> 
> By taking her away against her parent's wishes he has committed a "détournement de mineur" as she is under 18. This is applicable whether they did have sex or not as it is about taking her from the people who are legally responsible for her. That gets you 5 to 10 years according to the Code Penal.
> 
> ...


Yup I think he'll face abduction charges here as well.

For his crimes against music though I think there must be justification for life without drumroll.


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

"The mating call of a paedophile"


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> mermaiddimples?
> 
> If so, yes.
> 
> e2a: according to the lyrics site.


That's what I thought


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

You'd think a maths teachers would know that 30 doesnt go into 15.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> That's what I thought





> Bex _· 14 hours ago_
> Her mum's nickname for her was Mermaid :/
> 
> 
> ...


The internet police'll get them, if the IRL police don't get 'em first!


----------



## The Octagon (Sep 26, 2012)

I wonder if he thinks the parents' signed permission slip from the LA trip is still valid?





Sorry.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 26, 2012)

"I can't wait to get her behind closed doors."


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I wondered earlier in the thread how much money they have. Nothing has been reported on that has it?


The old bill will have put a stop on that sort of info I would imagine. It's how they catch folk most of the time innit through transactions etc. If he was savvy he would have taken a wedge but listening to his tunes I get the idea that he would of thought romance is forever and everything else there's master card. They'll have his bank and cards tagged by now and if he doesn't use them they'll freeze his accounts for purchase info etc.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 26, 2012)

Been listening to people speak about this on LBC. One person wrote in and said to leave them alone, the girl knows her own mind.
Unbelievable.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> The old bill will have put a stop on that sort of info I would imagine. It's how they catch folk most of the time innit through transactions etc. If he was savvy he would have taken a wedge but listening to his tunes I get the idea that he would of thought romance is forever and everything else there's master card. They'll have his bank and cards tagged by now and if he doesn't use them they'll freeze his accounts for purchase info etc.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/megan-stammers-missing-runaway-schoolgirl-1344185

Money, money, money. No mention of how much they took, but plenty of mention that they'll be scrogered if they take owt out.


----------



## Mation (Sep 26, 2012)

I can't help feeling a bit sorry for him. He's quite possibly 'just' a horribly immature idiot with appropriate decision-making skills, which is, imo, very different to being someone who might routinely groom an adolescent specifically because they're an adolescent.

When I was 15 my boyfriends were 24. However ill-advised it was, they weren't monsters.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Check his followers. Is that the young lady in question in his fan base?


http://soundcloud.com/mermaiddimples

Judging by the picture and the fact that her mum called her "Her little Mermaid".


She seems to like the song "starsigns" too.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You'd think a maths teachers would know that 30 doesnt go into 15.


As much as I wanted to I couldn't like that post 
It will prob work out something like his sentence....

"What time is it?" said the judge to Joey when they met
"Five to ten," said Joey.
The judge says," That's exactly what you get"


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> The internet police'll get them, if the IRL police don't get 'em first!


Yup they've probably got all his and her accounts under surveillance by now.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Yup they've probably got all his and her accounts under surveillance by now.


There is no way he won't be able to resist uploading another song.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You'd think a maths teachers would know that 30 doesnt go into 15.


 
  

pot of the year.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> There is no way he won't be able to resist uploading another song.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> holy crap, and the rest...
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music


 
One of the comments on his songs:

"this is well creepy"

Understatement.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> The old bill will have put a stop on that sort of info I would imagine. It's how they catch folk most of the time innit through transactions etc. If he was savvy he would have taken a wedge but listening to his tunes I get the idea that he would of thought romance is forever and everything else there's master card. They'll have his bank and cards tagged by now and if he doesn't use them they'll freeze his accounts for purchase info etc.


 
I guess he is not the brightest spark but have to reckon that once outside the country he won't use cards or go to the bank.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I guess he is not the brightest spark but have to reckon that once outside the country he won't use cards or go to the bank.


Can't see his busking keeping a roof over their heads for long though


----------



## gabi (Sep 26, 2012)

he sounds and looks like he should be in Keane. nuff said.


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You'd think a maths teachers would know that 30 doesnt go into 15.


*cheers*


----------



## xenon (Sep 26, 2012)

From his blog above.
"This entry was posted on May 19, 2012, in Personal Rambles, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Leave a comment 
The last two weeks have been pretty intense, in both a good and a bad way!!!

I’ll touch on the bad, although it will have to be a bit vague to be public-ally digestible, but have lots of positive music related shit to shoot…

About a week ago I had a bit of a moral dilemma to deal with, both internally and externally. And the overiding question it left me with was this;

How do we, and how should we, define what is right or wrong, acceptable or unacceptable???

I came to a few different conclusions, mainly that actually we get a lot of things wrong, but at the end of the day I was satisfied that if you can look yourself in the mirror and know that, under all the front, that you are a good person, that should have faith in your own judgement.  That’s some philosophical gold for you there!!!"


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

Mation said:


> He's quite possibly 'just' a horribly immature idiot with appropriate decision-making skills.


 yeah, agree


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Oh, hello, the transcribed lyrics of Mr Forrest Ayre.
> 
> http://www.bloggerheads.com/archives/2012/09/jeremy-ayre/
> 
> ...


 
I'm starting to think this bloke might be a nonce.


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

xenon said:


> I came to a few different conclusions, mainly that actually we get a lot of things wrong, but at the end of the day I was satisfied that if you can look yourself in the mirror and know that, under all the front, that you are a good person, that should have faith in your own judgement. That’s some philosophical gold for you there!!!"


That's the kind of self-justification which egocentric types find easy to do. And as a musician and a teacher, at which you're pretty much the centre of attention, he'll be after adulation from this girl too no doubt.

</cod psychology>


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Can't see his busking keeping a roof over their heads for long though


 
Maybe they will do some painted mime artististry? Good disguises and a sure-fire earner that.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Maybe they will do some painted mime artististry? Good disguises and a sure-fire earner that.


 
The 'stuck in a box' routine will soon become familiar.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 26, 2012)

Mation said:


> I can't help feeling a bit sorry for him. He's quite possibly 'just' a horribly immature idiot with appropriate decision-making skills, which is, imo, very different to being someone who might routinely groom an adolescent specifically because they're an adolescent.


 
Tbh those lyrics of his read like teenage doggerel, and his blog posts about moral dilemmas read a lot like something a teenager would come up with in the throes of self pity and emotional incontinence. So maybe he's just an immature and not especially bright individual who has made a crappy decision. Unfortunately he has accepted a position of responsibility and quite apart from his feelings for this girl (which he probably thinks are genuine and innocent) he has betrayed the trust placed in him and, most importantly, has put a young girl in a situation that is gonna totally fuck up her life one way or another.

If he really genuinely cared about her he wouldn't have done this. Then again, if he was some evil calculating bastard he probably wouldn't have done it either, leaving the country being the perfect way to draw attention to yourself and make sure you get caught.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 26, 2012)

Manchild innit.

On the plus side if this walking Disaster could get hired as a teacher  theres hope for me. 
 As not knobbing the students must be the second thing they teach you on a pgcse as obviously the first is not deliberatly exposing your students to mutagens so you can use them as a team of super villians for world domination


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

Neighbours sticking the boot in over his and his wife's supposedly cosy marriage in the Daily fail....
Fail


> Forrest’s wife, Emily, 31, recently described in an online post how the couple married in a castle last year and had ‘never looked back’ after moving to their home in Ringmer in East Sussex in 2009.
> But a neighbour of the couple, who asked not to be named, yesterday said they had repeatedly fought during their time living there. She said: ‘They’ve been here three years and it’s been absolute hell because they row constantly.
> ‘Sometimes their rows were so intense I phoned the police. Nothing ever came of it though and the rows continued.
> ‘I’d worry for that schoolgirl’s safety if I was her mother. I don’t know what happened with his wife, but it didn’t sound pleasant. From their rows, I’d say he didn’t sound like the kind of person you’d want near your child.’


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

nasty


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 26, 2012)

> _Forrest’s wife, Emily, 31, recently described in an online post how the couple married in a castle last year and had ‘never looked back’ after moving to their home in Ringmer in East Sussex in 2009._
> _But a neighbour of the couple, who asked not to be named, yesterday said they had repeatedly fought during their time living there. She said: ‘They’ve been here three years and it’s been absolute hell because they row constantly._
> _‘Sometimes their rows were so intense I phoned the police. Nothing ever came of it though and the rows continued._
> _‘I’d worry for that schoolgirl’s safety if I was her mother. I don’t know what happened with his wife, but it didn’t sound pleasant. From their rows, I’d say he didn’t sound like the kind of person you’d want near your child.’_


 
It's nice that this neighbour has taken the feelings of the girl's family and the bloke's wife into account here, before deciding that they can all get to fuck as long as she gets paid.


----------



## chazegee (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> knowing what we know, it makes this song on his blog sound well dodgy http://jeremyayremusic.com/music/


He's quite good! 
He'd have to be Polanski good to get away with this though.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's nice that this neighbour has taken the feelings of the girl's family and the bloke's wife into account here, before deciding that they can all get to fuck as long as she gets paid.



Or more likely there is no neighbour and the journalist just made it up for an extra edge, a journalist at the mirror made up quotes from "friends" of mine when i was scooped in genoa.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Or more likely there is no neighbour and the journalist just made it up for an extra edge, a journalist at the mirror made up quotes from "friends" of mine when i was scooped in genoa.


 
How very ethical of them. I guess they're not too worried about teacher man suing them for libel, him not being the sort of chap a jury is likely to find in favour of.


----------



## T & P (Sep 26, 2012)

Has anyone posted yet the tattoo the teacher had done earlier this year?


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

I think we now have enough data for a weekend psychoanalysis conference.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

purves grundy said:


> I think we now have enough data for a weekend psychoanalysis conference.


Case studies of the perps, the posters, or both?


----------



## extra dry (Sep 26, 2012)

Have the cops nabbed them yet?

He does sound a little too 'I need attention all the time...no matter what'  Suicide pack? or will she come to her senses?


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Case studies of the perps, the posters, or both?


They'll all have something within that needs attending to - I say get em all in.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

T & P said:


> Has anyone posted yet the tattoo the teacher had done earlier this year?


That doesn't look like a black star???


----------



## extra dry (Sep 26, 2012)

why is he cradling his cock?


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

The lass is pretty and well-stacked too, according to my daughter!


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

Solid first post there ^


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> The lass is pretty and well-stacked too, according to my daughter!


 
"well-stacked" "my daughter"


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Solid first post there ^


Poster also has the same username as one of the most prolific posters on Urban's current advertised-by-spam-PM website.

e2a: the ones advertised by 'jubbly.'


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> The lass is pretty and well-stacked too, according to my daughter!


 
Interesting first post, welcome to the boards Jeremy.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> The lass is pretty and well-stacked too, according to my daughter!


 
You're not going to last long.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Interesting first post, welcome to the boards Jeremy.


 
Thanks.

BTW, to answer a poster above,  am I not allowed to be a member of any other forum if I join here?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> You're not going to last long.


Fencing Matt stuck it out for a fair while.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> You're not going to last long.


 
Pardon? As I said, my 16 year-old daughter said that, can understand why he was attracted to her.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2012)

in the end, his nambla affection didfor him


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Fencing Matt stuck it out for a fair while.


 

Was he mates with Jubbly too?


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Pardon? As I said, my 16 year-old daughter said that, can understand why he was attracted to her.


 
Let's see a pic of your daughter so we can gauge her attractiveness by her chest size too.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Pardon? As I said, my 16 year-old daughter said that, can understand why he was attracted to her.



Is it bad to think that the notion he's only with her is cos of her tits actually cheapens the relationship between a 15 year old abd her 30 year old teacher...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Let's see a pic of your daughter so we can gauge her attractiveness by her chest size too.



Sneaky firky, very sneaky!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Was he mates with Jubbly too?


Friends with NAMBLA, IIRC.

e2a: ah. Dotty got their first.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

I have had this bookmaked since last night:


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Is it bad to think that the notion he's only with her is cos of her tits actually cheapens the relationship between a 15 year old abd her 30 year old teacher...


I never said he was only with her for those but she is a pretty girl.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> I have had this bookmaked since last night:


That would make a nice tattoo


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I never said he was only with her for those but she is a pretty girl.


 


common sense said:


> The lass is pretty and well-stacked too


 
You never mentioned anything else.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I never said he was only with her for those but she is a pretty girl.


 
That is perhaps, but she is a child and he is her adult teacher and supposed to be behaving responsibly.
It seems he did not understand that.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 26, 2012)

well he did. Hence this last song here on his band's page

http://soundcloud.com/jaws-ayre-stevens


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Pardon? As I said, my 16 year-old daughter said that, can understand why he was attracted to her.


 
cock off cunt.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> cock off cunt.


 
Well that's very welcoming to a new member.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> That is perhaps, but she is a child and he is her adult teacher and supposed to be behaving responsibly.
> .


 
I agree totally.


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Well that's very welcoming to a new member.


 
deal with it.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> well he did. Hence this last song here on his band's page
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/jaws-ayre-stevens



Eh? He did what? Also them songs are from 2008 i doubt they are about her.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Eh? He did what? Also them songs are from 2008 i doubt they are about her.


 
She was 11 then....


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Well that's very welcoming to a new member.


Well stop being a bell end then.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Eh? He did what? Also them songs are from 2008 i doubt they are about her.


shit joke.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> She was 11 then....


Yeah but it sounds like he was at his height of his teenage angst back then at 26






I think the main crime here was probably committed by whoever taught him music


----------



## chazegee (Sep 26, 2012)

You're all just jealous.


----------



## gabi (Sep 26, 2012)

some good stuff on another board



> *apsedcat* - 24 Sep 2012 14:04:09 (#68 of 92)
> You never hear of anyone running off with the school caretaker.
> 
> *newtonbase* - 24 Sep 2012 14:04:55 (#69 of 92)
> Not since Soham anyway.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

Hope this ends well soon. Did you hear today where his dad says he has a violent temper and cops went to his home several times to alleged attacks on his wife? Hope he doesn't feel cornered and flip.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh and hope it doesn't end up a suicide pact, when they realise there's no way out, or a murder-suicide.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Pardon? As I said, my 16 year-old daughter said that, can understand why he was attracted to her.


 
Did your daughter call you on her Blackberry to tell you?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

Someone has got to wire him a 12 string to vent or he will pop.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

I think the sickest thing is that someoen could fancy their maths teacher, maths ffs!


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I think the sickest thing is that someoen could fancy their maths teacher, maths ffs!


Do you mean yoot spk sick, as in good? I never can tell with you philosophers.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music/let-the-wrong-one-in


> Third and final instalment from the Chris Startup sessions... A song about a relationship going wrong, people meeting on different levels and having very different ideas and expectations...
> *Folk*\acoustic\pop


 
Woody Guthrie must be turning in his fucking grave


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Pardon? As I said, my 16 year-old daughter said that, can understand why he was attracted to her.


so you're saying you're attracted to your 16 year old daughter then... peadoinccestononce...


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Did your daughter call you on her Blackberry to tell you?


 
No it was nicked last week.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so you're saying you're attracted to your 16 year old daughter then... peadoinccestononce...


 
Erm, where did I say that? I never did.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> Do you mean yoot spk sick, as in good? I never can tell with you philosophers.



No i mean sick as in boke, seriously you can understand young girls going all gooey eyed over their english lit teacher as he discusses romance and passion but a maths teacher...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> No it was nicked last week.


course it was... shorlty before her 'trip' to france...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so you're saying you're attracted to your 16 year old daughter then... peadoinccestononce...



Common sense is a cock but im beginning to worry about you throwing around accusations of paedophilia, comes across as projection.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> No i mean sick as in boke, seriously you can understand young girls going all gooey eyed over their english lit teacher as he discusses romance and passion but a maths teacher...


It was the thought of long distance division that started all this though

Gets coat....


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> No it was nicked last week.


 
Poor thing, hope it was insured. Guess it would be stupid not to insure it really, these things can cost about £400 to replace.


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> No i mean sick as in boke, seriously you can understand young girls going all gooey eyed over their english lit teacher as he discusses romance and passion but a maths teacher...


Aye, next worse thing to a physics teacher. No taste.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Poor thing, hope it was insured. Guess it would be stupid not to insure it really, these things can cost about £400 to replace.


 
No wife hadn't insured it so she's to wait til the contract's due for upgrade in 6 months. Took her Oyster too, from her skirt pocket on the bus home,thieving cunt.


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> Aye, next worse thing to a physics teacher. No taste.


 
oi you leave physics teachers out of this


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> Aye, next worse thing to a physics teacher. No taste.



Worse than physics, physics is OMGZ HOTTZ! Haven't you seen Brian Cox on the tele.


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Worse than physics, physics is OMGZ HOTTZ! Haven't you seen Brian Cox on the tele.


Is he the one with the annoying voice?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> Is he the one with the annoying voice?



You mean manc accent?


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

I bumped into Professor Brian Cox looking a bit down, so I asked him, "What's the matter?"

Longest reply ever...


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

Is Brian Cox a pedso?


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You mean manc accent?


No, accents are OK, I meant squeakiness.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> No wife hadn't insured it so she's to wait til the contract's due for upgrade in 6 months. Took her Oyster too, from her skirt pocket on the bus home,thieving cunt.


 
Skirt pocket?


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

I wonder if she's pregnant now.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Skirt pocket?


 
Yeah that's where it was, why?


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> I bumped into Professor Brian Cox looking a bit down, so I asked him, "What's the matter?"
> 
> Longest reply ever...


It's the way ya tell em!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Erm, where did I say that? I never did.


yeah you kinda did daddyperv... 



			
				common sense said:
			
		

> can understand why he was attracted to her.


 
let's de-construct your post shall we see where down the rabbit hole you end up with good old Garfield... I'm sure most regulars can imagine where this might all be heading... 


Can understand = have empathy with; it's not beyond your reasoning to comprehend
why he = the teacher as you cannot be refereeing to your daughter unless they are a previously unmentioned hermaphrodite we must assume you're referring instead to absconded tutors of the peado variety.

was attracted to her = inferring that this attraction is one you feel empathy with, as in you're attracted to the 15 year old girl missing with aforementioned teacher.  but wait... is this the right subject of your affection let's scroll back and see what was said to contextualise this... 

the her you're referring to is your 16 year old daughter discussing the run away 15 year old so it's not contextually the 15 year old you're referring to here but in fact your 16 year old daughter who feel empathy and attraction towards, the inference being well if she the 15 year old was as fit as my 16 year old I would... is the subtext you've laid bare for us all to read...

so how long have you been abusing your daughter and is the incest consensual or is it rape?

hmmm peado-incesto-pervo-troll??


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Is Brian Cox a pedso?


 
Dunno but he was in band so possibly.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yeah you kinda did daddyperv...
> 
> 
> let's de-construct your post shall we see where down the rabbit hole you end up with good old Garfield... I'm sure most regulars can imagine where this might all be heading...
> ...


 
Post reported to mods for accusing me of being one of those.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yeah you kinda did daddyperv...
> 
> 
> let's de-construct your post shall we see where down the rabbit hole you end up with good old Garfield... I'm sure most regulars can imagine where this might all be heading...
> ...



If only someone with actual wit or a basic understanding of the terms you are throwing about had done it, it might have been funny.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Common sense is a cock but im beginning to worry about you throwing around accusations of paedophilia, comes across as projection.


lol

where as you've come across as a bit of an immature prat with a fetish for young girls to most for years and its been commented many times on here... specifically that you like em young... you've even admitted as much on several dating threads...  so yeah if it were wild abandon accusations with no grounding or basis sure be worried as it's you and your predilection, self confessed for teen girls, then it's hardly cause for alarm is someone points out that you're a bit of a dutty old chester is it... 

you emo freak...


----------



## Das Uberdog (Sep 26, 2012)

fuck you garfield


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh no! Not the mods!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Post reported to mods for accusing me of being one of those.


I haven't called you a mod... far from it I've asked you specifically why you're attracted in your own words to your 16 year old daughter... you said it back it up...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> Oh no! Not the mods!


fucking hope the rockers don't find out can you imagine what a mess they'd make of this thread with their known animosity...


----------



## Das Uberdog (Sep 26, 2012)

you're hilarious has anyone ever told you that


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> fucking hope the rockers don't find out can you imagine what a mess they'd make of this thread with their known animosity...


It'll be like, erm, Hastings or summat.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> fuck you garfield


sorry I don't beleive I've addressed you directly wgwan ???

unless this is also revol posting under another name ... in which case you're only allow one user name at a time revol... tut tut for outing yourself like this... lol...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> you're hilarious has anyone ever told you that


yup... your papa...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> It'll be like, erm, Hastings or summat.


or heaven forfend brighton rock... oh the huge manatee...


----------



## chazegee (Sep 26, 2012)

No one would have batted an eyelid at this for 99 percent of Human history. 
But then again, our ancestors used to think urine made good hair gel.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> lol
> 
> where as you've come across as a bit of an immature prat with a fetish for young girls to most for years and its been commented many times on here... specifically that you like em young... you've even admitted as much on several dating threads...  so yeah if it were wild abandon accusations with no grounding or basis sure be worried as it's you and your predilection, self confessed for teen girls, then it's hardly cause for alarm is someone points out that you're a bit of a dutty old chester is it...
> 
> you emo freak...



Again you seem to be mistaking a running good natured joke between me and some other posters with something else, you seem to be fixated on it. 

And where have I said I like them young? For a start id never construct such a crude sentence. I fancied an actress that was 18 playing a 17 year old, if you think that makes someone a nonce I worry for your mental health.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I haven't called you a mod... far from it I've asked you specifically why you're attracted in your own words to your 16 year old daughter... you said it back it up...


I did not say it.


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> or heaven forfend brighton rock... oh the huge manatee...


Scooters and parkas. And acne.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

The Paedofinder General is here! Quick everyone, scarper!


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

I love it when the thickest poster on the boards turns up with his faulty "." key


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> If only someone with actual wit or a basic understanding of the terms you are throwing about had done it, it might have been funny.


awr bless you...

emo rage... emo smash (up their bedroom)... emo weep...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> The Paedofinder General is here! Quick everyone, scarper!


stop talking noncesence...


----------



## Pingu (Sep 26, 2012)

so did the outrage bus leave the depot then?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I did not say it.


 
Did you say this on another board??


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Has... the length... and.... number of ellipsises.... got... anything to do with working... out how to press the next button or spelling the next word?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> I love it when the thickest poster on the boards turns up with his faulty "." key


awr stop with the hero worship... really... stop... right now... just stop...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> awr bless you...
> 
> emo rage... emo smash (up their bedroom)... emo weep...



Emo insults, what year is this.

Come 2020 can we expect you to jump on the hipster backlash.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

What the fuck? Why does your Urban 75 look like that, Badgers? Did you spill something on it?


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> What the fuck? Why does your Urban 75 look like that, Badgers? Did you spill something on it?


 
It's from another forum you dingleberry.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> What the fuck? Why does your Urban 75 look like that, Badgers? Did you spill something on it?


 
_*another*_ board


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh, hello, looks like our latest spammer (Jubbly) flounced, causing 'common sense' to come over here on a board wars / trolling mission.

Won't post the link, board wars, etc.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> It's from another forum you dingleberry.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yeah you kinda did daddyperv...
> 
> 
> let's de-construct your post shall we see where down the rabbit hole you end up with good old Garfield... I'm sure most regulars can imagine where this might all be heading...
> ...


 

To be fair, that's really pretty weak and doesn't add up. 

I think it's enough that he is empathizing with the guy simply because the underage girl is "well stacked".
15 + Well stacked = time to runaway to france = understandable.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Oh, hello, looks like our latest spammer (Jubbly) flounced, causing 'common sense' to come over here on a board wars / trolling mission.


 
I'm on no mission. Jub did mention this forum and 'Im always looking to join new ones so thought I'd give it a try.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Has... the length... and.... number of ellipsises.... got... anything to do with working... out how to press the next button or spelling the next word?


do you know the punctuational use of an ellipsis? as in can you talk propper... it's a pregnant pause to indicate a taking of breath, a delay in speech used to give one time to consider the consequences of a statement. It's in-between a hard breath (full stop) and a soft breath (comma) when writing scripts.  it's to show what's known as metre within speech... as in an indication of how it should be read... 

it's one of the reasons butchers gets annoyed by it... he expects traditionally that something significant would follow by the convention and then I say something banal...


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

It makes you sound like Tony Blair. Not a good thing.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

Your use of ellipsis is fruitless though as your posts are still mostly unreadable blocks of indecipherable nonsense


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Emo insults, what year is this.
> 
> Come 2020 can we expect you to jump on the hipster backlash.


when you're mum stops dressing you funny then you can talk about what's in


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I'm on no mission. Jub did mention this forum and 'Im always looking to join new ones so thought I'd give it a try.


This stinks of troll, tbh.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

I honestly couldnt recall anything garfield has posted in the past, instead i just have a recollection of him being a bit thick.

I guess I should be flattered that he can recall what celebrities i fancied back in 2008.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Your use of ellipsis is fruitless though as your posts are still mostly unreadable blocks of indecipherable nonsense


to you... 

it's an ijet filter... those who can are fine with my posts those who can't are oddly upset by what they don't understand and thus show themselves up to be an ijet...


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

I would bet that most people skim your posts and come out with nowt


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> when you're mum stops dressing you funny then you can talk about what's in



When you change your avatar from the cover of some anarcho activist mag from 1999 we can have that discussion.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Did you say this on another board??


This is what the whole fucking board is like, you should check out the delightful hillsborough thread, started by board leader and "minimum and fair moderator" Jubbly for a nice rule of thumb.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> To be fair, that's really pretty weak and doesn't add up.
> 
> I think it's enough that he is empathizing with the guy simply because the underage girl is "well stacked".
> 15 + Well stacked = time to runaway to france = understandable.


but not that they fancy their own daughter ...

you know this is a troll right, not a real new poster.... we can toy with them and then kill em... it's the way forward...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> This stinks of troll, tbh.


 
Ooh, hes a player. Ha ha.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> but not that they fancy their own daughter ...
> 
> you know this is a troll right, not a real new poster.... we can toy with them and then kill em... it's the way forward...



We are all happy that you've found a new poster that even you can take the piss out...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> When you change your avatar from the cover of some anarcho activist mag from 1999 we can have that discussion.


really your avatar is better than my avatar this is the direction you're going in to prove the maturity point you've been trying to make ... no wonder you fancy them younger you're barely out of school mentality must have a lot in common... are you next going to tell me I smell too...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> but not that they fancy their own daughter ...
> 
> you know this is a troll right, not a real new poster.... we can toy with them and then kill em... it's the way forward...


 
I am well aware of who he is. Your post just didn't add up, and so stopped it being amusing.
I suppose it's all pointless as he is only here to troll though. Not quite as big a douche as Jubbly.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ooh, hes a player. Ha ha.


Not the sharpest tool in the box, though 

"I know, I'll go over to those forums that were spammed heavily with the URL for this site this morning, sign up with the same username I use over here, and then carry out the trolling plan I've detailed under the same username on these open-access forums."



What can you honestly say?  It's almost too innocent to be true


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> really your avatar is better than my avatar this is the direction you're going in to prove the maturity point you've been trying to make ... no wonder you fancy them younger you're barely out of school mentality must have a lot in common... are you next going to tell me I smell too...



Says the poster still throwing around emo as an insult...


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Quite tempted to join that forum and show them how trolling is done but CBA. I hung up my troll boots after the Daily Mail got my ISP to phone me up and tell me to stop trolling their website or I'll be banned from using their service.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> We are all happy that you've found a new poster that even you can take the piss out...


what a horrid mean man I am...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Quite tempted to join that forum and show them how trolling is done but CBA. I hung up my troll boots after the Daily Mail got my ISP to phone me up and tell me to stop trolling their website or I'll be banned from using their service.


that's because you're a fucking rank amateur... use a fucking proxy...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> that's because you're a fucking rank amateur... use a fucking proxy...



Is that how you get your porn?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I am well aware of who he is. Your post just didn't add up, and so stopped it being amusing.
> I suppose it's all pointless as he is only here to troll though. Not quite as big a douche as Jubbly.


well if you're expecting fucking science when baiting a troll... which worked instantly wawawa I'm telling the punks of you... 

didn't it... troll got owned within 4 posts... jesus lets see you do better...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Is that how you get your porn?


nope I like most men wank to ....

facebook...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

He's a troll what's your excuse


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> but not that they fancy their own daughter ...
> 
> you know this is a troll right, not a real new poster.... we can toy with them and then kill em... it's the way forward...


I am a real new poster. I was crazychris on many forums like DS. I'm on loads of forums.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Sep 26, 2012)

it's too late for you now


----------



## Das Uberdog (Sep 26, 2012)

especially as you quoted your own first post here in that screengrab


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> He's a troll what's your excuse


errr helloooo have you not been here for a while, is there some brain injury we need to know about?  really you're asking this question...  christ...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I am a real new poster. I was crazychris on many forums like DS.


IMU, you were banned from 'DS' (or put in the 'wankers playpen', or whatever it's called) for trolling there, too?

e2a: apologies. I'm thinking of 'DK.'


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I am a real new poster. I was crazychris on many forums like DS. I'm on loads of forums.


of course you are... so how do you explain the images screen shot from the other forum in your name then trolly...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> especially as you quoted your own first post here in that screengrab


he's a comic fooking genius...


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 26, 2012)

Have there been any further sightings? Does the idiot not realise, that he is compounding his offence every further day he is away?

I can't get that post out of my head that indicated that he may harm the girl and himself, rather than come back and face up to what he has done. His life is over. He will be dismissed, prosecuted and probably divorced. What a clown.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Does the idiot not realise, that he is compounding his offence every further day he is away?


 
Is 7 days more punishable than 3 days then?


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> IMU, you were banned from 'DS' (or put in the 'wankers playpen', or whatever it's called) for trolling there, too?
> 
> e2a: apologies. I'm thinking of 'DK.'


 
No, that's DTV. Someone de-regged me on DS.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I am a real new poster. I was crazychris on many forums like DS. I'm on loads of forums.


Then fuck off back to them that way ------------------------------------------>


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I am a real new poster. I was crazychris on many forums like DS. I'm on loads of forums.


 



> Childrens Magic Show Staines | _*Crazy Chris*_ | Children Juggling


 


> Childrens Magic Show Staines, Children Juggling Staines, Children Balloonology Staines, Children Disco Staines, Children Entertainers Staines, Childrens *...*
> Google+ page
> Gresham Court Cherry Orchard, Staines TW18 2DG
> 01784 453 192


 
Different person, like.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> of course you are... so how do you explain the images screen shot from the other forum in your name then trolly...


 
Yes I admit that is me. So what? Can't I be on any other forum? Do you want me exclusively yours now?


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Then fuck off back to them that way ------------------------------------------>


 
I like it here and won't troll or cause trouble.


----------



## common sense (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Is 7 days more punishable than 3 days then?


 
Can't see him being in France now. Could be anywhere.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> No, that's DTV. Someone de-regged me on DS.


Initials and acronyms aside - pretty much everything you've posted on the forum you've come over from is about how much of a wanker you tend to be, and how proud you are of being blocked / binned / treated like a wanker.

Your start over here seems to suggest that's a trend you're keen to continue

And *then* you've detailed your trolling plans before coming over here and starting them. Whilst commenting *in real time* on how they were going 



You're doing well not to've been blocked already, Chris. I don't rate your chances of lasting


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

presumably he's either:

gone to ground with her or her body
not in france
not in europe by this point (i mean they were in a fucking car ffs they could have been in Russia in 14 hours...)  
not in tv or radio contact
not actually them in the car on the ferry but some elaborate scheme for her mother and step father to have murdered them both and then get away with it (for those out there who always regardless of who think the parents did it).  

neither of them have turned on their mobiles since they've disappeared, or used known cash/credit cards etc which would rather imply they had a plan or one of them had a plan at least on how to get away with out trace so far...


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I like it here and won't troll or cause trouble.


 
I don't like you


----------



## weltweit (Sep 26, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Have there been any further sightings? Does the idiot not realise, that he is compounding his offence every further day he is away?


 
AFAICT there have been no signtings reported since they entered France. Perhaps though he may have used a credit card or something but this has not been reported publically.



Sasaferrato said:


> I can't get that post out of my head that indicated that he may harm the girl and himself, rather than come back and face up to what he has done. His life is over. He will be dismissed, prosecuted and probably divorced. What a clown.


 
I hope he does not do anything yet more stupid.

Just bring the girl home safely.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> I like it here and won't troll or cause trouble.


that's common sense talking


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> You're doing well not to've been blocked already, Chris. I don't rate your chances of lasting


 
He's a shit troll, even on his hallowed DS:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbm=dsc&q= site:forums.digitalspy.co.uk crazychris forum&sa=X&ei=lSFjUOXJLKqQ0AXeyIDADA&ved=0CEQQrQIwAQ&biw=2133&bih=1072


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Then fuck off back to them that way ------------------------------------------>


oooo loook and un captcha'ed web form which allows standard html inputs... 

http://www.crazychris.co.uk/ genius....


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> holy crap, and the rest...
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music


The first line of his Starsigns song is "she's in my head / I can tell there's gonna be trouble ahead..." - fucking right, you twat!

Another amazing (well perhaps not so amazing) thing about this case is how all the evidence is all over the web for anyone to see - songs, soundcloud accounts, tweets, photos, myspace page etc...no real attempt to cover any of it up. It's likely to all get used as evidence in a future court case..


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Or more likely there is no neighbour and the journalist just made it up for an extra edge, a journalist at the mirror made up quotes from "friends" of mine when i was scooped in genoa.


 
how did you know they were made up?

because you haven't got any friends?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

fuck me and in staines too lol...

public profile silly billy...

also fyi I do wonder if you'd still be CRB'ed if they read your recent posts eh... you know to perform for children...


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

> Not only does his young audience gasp with amazement but Crazy Chris’ quick wit and comical routines has the kids rolling with laughter from start to finish.


 
Nonce


----------



## kebabking (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Is 7 days more punishable than 3 days then?


 
obviously not in law, but the longer they are away, and the worse it is for the girl, the harder the CPS will push, the more unpleasent the psychological report will be, and the less benefit of the doubt he'll get from the judge. it would also mean he'll get a harder time in prison.

it's easier to show mercy to someone who fesses up reasonably quickly...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> how did you know they were made up?
> 
> because you haven't got any friends?


no cos he took their lunch money if they talked...


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Nonce


 
Baloonology


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> fuck me and in staines too lol...
> 
> public profile silly billy...
> 
> also fyi I do wonder if you'd still be CRB'ed if they read your recent posts eh... you know to perform for children...


 
Garf. It isn't him, not unless he's an old man that likes entertaining kids.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> oooo loook and un captcha'ed web form which allows standard html inputs...
> 
> http://www.crazychris.co.uk/ genius....


Hold on, so this guy who is happy to describe 15 year olds as "pretty and well stacked" is a fucking kids entertainer??


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Welty, your thread is well and truly shat upon!

Just 'cos he shares the same username as a kid's entertainer does not make it him , although I do like the irony


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Different person, like.


 
Could be the same Crazy Chris from Staines who used to work at Thorpe Park, git in to trouble for hyptnotising Park staff down the Red Lion.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

She's well stacked. Must be Keeeeererazy chris's daughter


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> She's well stacked. Must be Keeeeererazy chris's daughter


He edited out the bit about 'a nice mouthful.'






Don't let the door smack your arse on the way out, now, Chris.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no cos he took their lunch money if they talked...


 
please don't try and explain this post.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> He edited out the bit about 'a nice mouthful.'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've not joined yet. I'll have a gander later.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> She's well stacked. Must be Keeeeererazy chris's daughter


 

That's the twat who used to work at Thorpe Park.

Never knew he was a nonce though. Just goes to show, eh.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That's the twat who used to work at Thorpe Park.
> 
> Never knew he was a nonce though. Just goes to show, eh.


 
I don't like the laugh on the woman to the left of CrazeeeNonceChris myself


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That's the twat who used to work at Thorpe Park.
> 
> *Never knew he was a nonce though. Just goes to show, eh*.


Or well known all over the internets


----------



## weltweit (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Welty, your thread is well and truly shat upon!


 
I just thought - what if something truly bad happens, and we have been dicking about on this thread. Would make us look pretty heartless imo.

Anyhow, no worries.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I just thought - what if something truly bad happens, and we have been dicking about on this thread. Would make us look pretty heartless imo.


It'll revert to sensible. It always does!


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 26, 2012)

the vast majority haven't been dicking about. the ones who have rightly got it in the neck.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> It'll revert to sensible. It always does!


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I just thought - what if something truly bad happens, and we have been dicking about on this thread. Would make us look pretty heartless imo.
> 
> Anyhow, no worries.


 
The abduction of a 15 year old child is pretty bad and I doubt he's content with kissing her bare clavicle. It's already bad.

Hopefully the French police will find him and treat him as though he was an African immigrant on French soil.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> how did you know they were made up?
> 
> because you haven't got any friends?



Touche, nah because they apparently said i was passionate about ecological issues.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Garf. It isn't him, not unless he's an old man that likes entertaining kids.


it's a link on the g+ you posted dude...


----------



## Geri (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> No i mean sick as in boke, seriously you can understand young girls going all gooey eyed over their english lit teacher as he discusses romance and passion but a maths teacher...


In our school it was our history teacher, Mr Bruce. He was probably in his 20s but he may as well have been 100 to me.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Sep 26, 2012)

Oooo!  Is this going to turn into FORuM-WARZ?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Is 7 days more punishable than 3 days then?


 
I should imagine so... generally, the longer someone has been breaking the law, the longer the sentence.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 26, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I don't like the laugh on the woman to the left of CrazeeeNonceChris myself


Both her and Crazy Chris are getting a proper eyeful of that lady's "stack"


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Touche, nah because they apparently said i was passionate about ecological issues.


you've got a green knob you mean??


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

Geri said:


> In our school it was our history teacher, Mr Bruce. He was probably in his 20s but he may as well have been 100 to me.



Our technology teacher was stalked by some girls in my form, they used to call up his house and call his girlfriend a bitch etc They were in 2nd form, mental.


----------



## felixthecat (Sep 26, 2012)

Geri said:


> In our school it was our history teacher, Mr Bruce. He was probably in his 20s but he may as well have been 100 to me.


 
It was our geography teacher. I mean, a _GEOGRAPHY _teacher? Thats worse than a maths teacher, any day.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> please don't try and explain this post.


you're aware of the concept surely of school bullies taking lunch money... right...


----------



## JimW (Sep 26, 2012)

Everyone knows Seven Days Is Too Long, so err, come on back to me.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Our technology teacher was stalked by some girls in my form, they used to call up his house and call his girlfriend a bitch etc They were in 2nd form, mental.


that's really quite dark... did you bone the girlfriend when she finally left him??


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 26, 2012)

weltweit said:


> AFAICT there have been no signtings reported since they entered France. Perhaps though he may have used a credit card or something but this has not been reported publically.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Amen.

What on earth makes a man do something like this?


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Our technology teacher was stalked by some girls in my form, they used to call up his house and call his girlfriend a bitch etc They were in 2nd form, mental.


 

My PE Teacher is a convicted nonce, was released from prison last year and is about to go back in for even longer - for continuing to nonce!

http://www.journallive.co.uk/north-...-gets-early-release-from-jail-61634-27303183/






> Paedophile Joseph Kinnear gets early release from jail
> ONE victim of a teacher who was jailed for a string of sex attacks against pupils last night spoke of her devastation at his early release.
> Joseph Kinnear, who lives near Rothbury in Northumberland, was found guilty in 2006 of 13 charges of indecent assaults on girls as young as nine.


----------



## Lily_stick (Sep 26, 2012)

PE teachers are always a bit suspect though aren't they?  At least, mine were.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Amen.
> 
> What on earth makes a man do something like this?


massive immaturity, the need to feel they are in control in a circumstance where they feel none, cos far to many men think yeah ok I'll just have one fuck what harm can it do.... 

I mean she's up for it I'm up for it it's only a number etc etc etc... 

because we've spent years indoctrinating people in to the sexy school girl fantasy largely because it's the first time most people have their first sexual experience so it's bound to be imprinted partially on their minds, it's learning and over coming that which makes for mature adult relationships but within our neo-tenic society we're not really used to growing up and leaving behind childish things... kidulthood and alla that ... couple with our vanity obsessed never think of dying worship of youth culture it all kinda compounds... he should know better, deep down he does no better, deep deep down he might even loath himself for it... but he's made his mind up and people at 30 seem to these days at least go through some kind of my world is ending have to change everything trama like people in their 40's used to have... it's an end of teenage years backlash I guess, fuck I'm 30 what have I done with my life I'm like offically old and I've just been to school and then uni created a fuck ton of debt and have fuck all to show for it... now I'm old and have to do this job til I die or I'm fucked cos I haven't even begun to think about a pension... shit... shit... shit...

basically is how most people think when they get to 30...

so   here's a pretty girl who reminds him of his youth when he didn't have bills responsibilities, a wife, a job, nothing to look forward too but his dreams and hopes and he thinks fuck it you only live once... sadly if he'd wait til his 31 he'd have gotten over the death of his teenage angst and thought want a fucking twnt I was last year Jesus that could have all fucked itself very badly  fuck it I'm only 31... except now he can't...


----------



## cesare (Sep 26, 2012)

felixthecat said:


> It was our geography teacher. I mean, a _GEOGRAPHY _teacher? Thats worse than a maths teacher, any day.


Ours was a geography teacher too


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Mr Kinear was a PE teacher and a geography teacher too 



Lily_stick said:


> PE teachers are always a bit suspect though aren't they? At least, mine were.


 
One thing that sticks in my memory is asking the girls to take off their underwear for a school play. They were wearing those white leotard things (supposed to be swans IIRC) and he complained that the lines of their underwear spoilt their costume.

There's a couple of other things too but probably best left unsaid on a public forum.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> massive immaturity, the need to feel they are in control in a circumstance where they feel none, cos far to many men think yeah ok I'll just have one fuck what harm can it do....
> 
> I mean she's up for it I'm up for it it's only a number etc etc etc...
> 
> ...


Garf is the Stephen Hawking of Urban75


----------



## miss direct (Sep 26, 2012)

Two sixth formers at my old school were in relationships with teachers - one got found out and quit, newspapers caught on and waited outside the gates to ask pupils. We had a special assembly in which we were told not to talk to reporters. Another teacher was never caught even though everyone knew about it.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 26, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> Where is shippy lurking these days


 
I don't teach maths


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> There's a couple of other things too but probably best left unsaid on a public forum.


Ok on urban though. Post'em up.


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Sep 26, 2012)

No sign of them after 6 days & this has barely made the news in France apparently. Possibly the teacher has more guile than we are giving him credit for. If they are busking for living in St Tropez I doubt the locals would give a fuck.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

One of my PE teachers who I later ended up working with had married a girl in the year above me. I only found this out when i ended up working with her and she told me. They've been together for 25 years. Apparently it started when she left the six form and he was mid 20s.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 26, 2012)

SaskiaJayne said:


> No sign of them after 6 days & this has barely made the news in France apparently. Possibly the teacher has more guile than we are giving him credit for. If they are busking for living in St Tropez I doubt the locals would give a fuck.


If he's making enough money to live on with his music in France then I change my opinion of the French forever


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I think the sickest thing is that someoen could fancy their maths teacher, maths ffs!


There's nothing wrong with maths, you, you _mathist_


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2012)

One of the few funny sketches in Little Britain involved a relationship between a former pupil and teacher. He continues to correct her spelling and stuff


----------



## weltweit (Sep 26, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Amen.
> 
> What on earth makes a man do something like this?


 
I think he has lost relation to reality. He should know that he is in a position of responsibility for this girl, especially on the school trip. He should have known that, especially teacher student, relationships are out of bounds, even excusing that she is only 15 - but it seems he did not. I think he is basically stupid or soft in the head. Certainly what he has already done will cost him his career, his marriage and most likely his freedom. I would certainly call that stupid.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 26, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Both her and Crazy Chris are getting a proper eyeful of that lady's "stack"


At my old work, the word 'gravititty' was invented to describe the magnetic-like force drawing a gaze to the ample bosom of a lady.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 26, 2012)

I think his tattoo of the Holly-Hobby-like girl is extremely creepy. Yuck.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I think his tattoo of the Holly-Hobby-like girl is extremely creepy. Yuck.


 
It's as bad as 'that' loli tattoo which was posted to the tattoo thread. Basically some lass had a baby with it's legs open, tattooed on her mons veneris pubis - you can fill in the rest.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> It's as bad as 'that' loli tattoo which was posted to the tattoo thread. Basically some lass had a baby with it's legs open, tattooed on her mons veneris pubis - you can fill in the rest.


 
 Oh my. 

Why would a grown man get a huge tattoo of a holly-hobby type though? I mean, I know people get all sorts of tattoos done, but that? It's just so wrong.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

It's very odd. I can see why some people may get characters from childhood cartoons tattooed on themselves (and that's a bit odd too imo) but... yeah.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> It's as bad as 'that' loli tattoo which was posted to the tattoo thread. Basically some lass had a baby with it's legs open, tattooed on her mons veneris pubis - you can fill in the rest.


 

I think consensus was that that was paint, but it still remains the winner of that thread, spunking dick swastikas aside.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 26, 2012)

The more I find out about this chap the more I hope this girl is ok.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

xenon said:


> From his blog above.
> "This entry was posted on May 19, 2012, in Personal Rambles, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Leave a comment
> The last two weeks have been pretty intense, in both a good and a bad way!!!
> 
> ...


 
He's just described himself in the same way a sociopath would.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> The more I find out about this chap the more I hope this girl is ok.


 
I think the biggest danger is him serenading her with poorly ripped off Akaline Trio lyrics. All the love, death, suicide and pain shit are just standard emo tropes I don't think they are proper flags.

Though won't I look like a tit if he does a murder suicide.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 26, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> He's just described himself in the same way a sociopath would.


 
Nah I think he comes across as a teenage twat more than a sociopath.


----------



## Lily_stick (Sep 26, 2012)

There is so much wrong with a person who says to themselves 'It's ok that I fantasise over and pursue a romantic relationship with a child under my professional care because under all that front, I know I am a good person."

SO MUCH WRONG


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 26, 2012)

When the thrill of running away wears off she will start becoming very scared I'm sure


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so you're saying you're attracted to your 16 year old daughter then... peadoinccestononce...


 
Why wouldn't he be? All his mates are!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You mean manc accent?


 
Annoying voice, or Manc accent? Po-tay-toh bloody po-tah-toh!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I think the biggest danger is him serenading her with poorly ripped off Akaline Trio lyrics. All the love, death, suicide and pain shit are just standard emo tropes I don't think they are proper flags.
> 
> *Though won't I look like a tit if he does a murder suicide*.


 

You've seen the photo. Doesn't even take his glove off to give the one fingered salute proper.

The only thing he's murdered is any chance of a life where the miasma of nonce doesn't hang over him like a cloud.


----------



## chazegee (Sep 26, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> One of my PE teachers who I later ended up working with had married a girl in the year above me. I only found this out when i ended up working with her and she told me. They've been together for 25 years. Apparently it started when she left the six form and he was mid 20s.


 
One of the happiest couples I know have a twenty year age gap, he was 17 when it started (my age now) .

I don't really want to become Urban's paedo apologist, but, err, I'm pretty sure that the worst thing for this girl when she gets back will be everyone else going bat shit.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> I bumped into Professor Brian Cox looking a bit down, so I asked him, "What's the matter?"
> 
> Longest reply ever...


 
That wasn't funny when Russell Howard did it.

You stole a joke from Russell Howard, firks. That makes you more rank than Frankie Boyle's unwashed bollocks, you know!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

common sense said:


> Post reported to mods for accusing me of being one of those.


 
He didn't accuse you of being "one of those".

We're not fucking homophobes, for fuck's sake! 

(coat got)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> The Paedofinder General is here! Quick everyone, scarper!


 
If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear, OU!


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> That wasn't funny when Russell Howard did it.
> 
> You stole a joke from Russell Howard, firks. That makes you more rank than Frankie Boyle's unwashed bollocks, you know!


 
Well he stole it off Radio 2 'cos that's where I heard it 


What you doing watching Russel Howard you kant?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 26, 2012)

On a *purely* pragmatic and common sense level** I wonder this :

Why do teachers do this, *any* teachers? Beyond comprehension, unless they're on a *total* self death wish re career and anything else ...

**I'll leave the condemnations to others. who've no doubt done it more successfully thoughout this thread!


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Sep 26, 2012)

Two teachers at the comp' I went to made national headlines as a result of illicit relationships. My form tutor got caught in the public toilets of the main local market town. Shame. He was a really nice guy and lost his job and everything.

The other was a women who eloped with a 15 year old student. That ran in the Daily Mirror for a few days if I recall correctly.


----------



## chazegee (Sep 26, 2012)

William. 
What, why do people ruin their lives for a piece of ass?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Well he stole it off Radio 2 'cos that's where I heard it
> 
> 
> What you doing watching Russel Howard you kant?


 
I was watching that Dara O'Brain thing with the assorted comics on it. To see the one or two half-funny ones, you have to put up with the fully-awful ones too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

chazegee said:


> William.
> What, why do people ruin their lives for a piece of ass?


 
Because they can't get enough of that equine loving, Chaz.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 26, 2012)

chazegee said:


> William.
> What, why do people ruin their lives for a piece of ass?


 
Call me naive, maybe because I've disliked pretty much anyone under the age of about 25 since I was about ... 25 ... or even since I was about 17 ....   (TMI!  )

But yes, I do genuinely wonder why they can be such such self destructive cretins -- in the case of teachers *particularly* though ....


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> It's very odd. I can see why some people may get characters from childhood cartoons tattooed on themselves (and that's a bit odd too imo) but... yeah.


 
for some reason i an envisioning you getting a fuck off huge  thundercats tatto


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 26, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Says the poster still throwing around emo as an insult...


 
TBF, deploying "emo" as an insult only works nowadays against hardcore Goths.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> for some reason i an envisioning you getting a fuck off huge thundercats tatto


 
Snarf on my arse cheek


----------



## chazegee (Sep 26, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Call me naive, maybe because I've disliked pretty much anyone under the age of about 25 since I was about ... 25 ... or even since I was about 17 ....   (TMI!  )
> 
> But yes, I do genuinely wonder why they can be such such self destructive cretins -- in the case of teachers *particularly* though ....


 
Ultimate forbidden fruit?

Maybe that's why some teachers go into it in the first place. (Consciously or not)


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> It's very odd. I can see why some people may get characters from childhood cartoons tattooed on themselves (and that's a bit odd too imo) but... yeah.


 
Fuck off. King Rollo is a cultural icon representing all things good.


----------



## chazegee (Sep 26, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because they can't get enough of that equine loving, Chaz.


Mr Hands certainly could.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 26, 2012)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Fuck off. King Rollo is a cultural icon representing all things good.


Have you seen the tattoo in question, Stanley? It's on the previous page. It's nothing to do with King Rollo.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

I went to school with a girl who looked like a cross between Hey Arnold and King Rollo's cat.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> I went to school with a girl who looked like a cross between Hey Arnold and King Rollo's cat.


 
I bet she was popular


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> miasma of nonce


Back to toning mist again!


----------



## Wilf (Sep 26, 2012)

crustychick said:


> holy crap, and the rest...
> 
> http://soundcloud.com/jeremy-ayre-music


 Some great stuff on there. Anybody got the chords?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Some great stuff on there. Anybody got the chords?


 

all in minor, obviously


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> But yes, I do genuinely wonder why they can be such such self destructive cretins -- in the case of teachers *particularly* though ....


Tbf, there's an extensive body of counselling / psychoanalytic literature on not sleeping with your clients (despite feeling tempted to), because it's such a widely recognised risk / difficulty. 

Relationships are relationships, trust is trust, and power is power. Negotiating intimacy, trust & power isn't necessarily uncomplicated for anyone, but some people kinda lose sight of it more often. 

If you looked for information on fucked relationships in social work, prisons & counselling IMO you'd find as many (if not more) examples. Only teachers are more likely to make it into the national press, not least because in their case a breach of trust means abusing a minor.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Stanley Edwards said:


> I bet she was popular


 
I thought she was gorgeous, fancied her for a bit. loads of people took the mick out of her but she ended up going out with Andrew Maylia who was like one of the hardest kids in school so it soon stopped.

I bumped into her in the middle of Glastonbury, hadn't seen her for ten years then literally bumped into her. She was head to toe in mud. Ended up chatting for about an hour and left with the impression that we both politely regarded each other as twats!

Just had a shave with shaving oil and a new blade on the razor, have you tried shaving oil? It's incredible!


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 26, 2012)

That's interesting stuff, Mrs Q. Food for thought and all that.

Leading sort of irrelevantlyish to ...

I did once, when still a librarian, spend time sleeping with a reader at my old employment. I wonder whether there's any parallel at all between that, and counsellors or teachers/their clients or pupils in power terms though.

In any case, well my case, 'reader X' was a 26 yr old postgraduate researcher (and a very intellectual Dane, relevant to my weakness at the time!). I'm sure my professional objectivity was influenced (and not at all for the good). And not just by her either, over the years.

But my conscience is clean, all consensual, no exploitation involved etc etc, I would maintain**
And my fling was old enough to know better  anyway ...

As a teacher in any kind of similar situation, would find a lot harder, OK impossible to claim *except* because of *entirely* inaccurate rumours ... and even then there'd probably be stupidity or naivity involved


----------



## Wilf (Sep 26, 2012)

http://jeremyayremusic.com/music/



> Where I’m playing next…


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Sep 26, 2012)

firky said:


> Just had a shave with shaving oil and a new blade on the razor, have you tried shaving oil? It's incredible!


 
Yes. In my clean shaven corporate office days I used King of Shaves, but it clogs your razor up quickly. A disposable with foam would last Two weeks, but oil would mean a new razor pretty much every other shave. I have to shave everyday to remain clean shaven. Much perfer scruffshyster artist life and the electric once over each month.


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 26, 2012)

Whilst there is no excuse for the actions of the teacher in this or any similar case (Chris Woodhead ex OFSTED chief was pretty near the line) there is an element of the power that some pupils will start see that they can use themselves, naively and perhaps understandably but nevertheless putting some teachers in a really difficult position.  If you work in a mixed staff room for any length of time you will encounter a male (I guess it can work the other way round but have never encountered it) teacher who is on the end of unwanted attention from young female pupils.  The vast majority can deal with it through proper channels but it is really difficult because often they have to continue to work with the pupil, protect their self esteem and so on.  I would imagine that a person in that position who was not robust, perhaps with half their world imploding from other circumstances, wanting some kind of affirmation etc might at a low ebb convince themselves that this is some kind of Romeo and Juliet thing - an imperfect storm of circumstances - same thing which is behind a lot of inappropriate, big power imbalanced, abusive relationships. This does not excuse their actions in the least but I think it is somewhat different than the 'grooming paedo' category that seems to be applied in all cases.


----------



## Firky (Sep 26, 2012)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Yes. In my clean shaven corporate office days I used King of Shaves, but it clogs your razor up quickly. A disposable with foam would last Two weeks, but oil would mean a new razor pretty much every other shave. I have to shave everyday to remain clean shaven. Much perfer scruffshyster artist life and the electric once over each month.


 
That's what I am using, King of Shaves, it's amazing! I just used to buy the supermarkets own brand shaving foam but the other week I needed a new razor. So I thought I'd treat myself and bought a new butterfly razor, King of Shaves shaving gel, some shaving oil and moisturiser. Absolutely loving it, I have been missing out this for over ten years!!


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 26, 2012)

catinthehat said:


> Whilst there is no excuse for the actions of the teacher in this or any similar case (Chris Woodhead ex OFSTED chief was pretty near the line) there is an element of the power that some pupils will start see that they can use themselves, naively and perhaps understandably but nevertheless putting some teachers in a really difficult position. If you work in a mixed staff room for any length of time you will encounter a male (I guess it can work the other way round but have never encountered it) teacher who is on the end of unwanted attention from young female pupils. The vast majority can deal with it through proper channels but it is really difficult because often they have to continue to work with the pupil, protect their self esteem and so on. I would imagine that a person in that position who was not robust, perhaps with half their world imploding from other circumstances, wanting some kind of affirmation etc might at a low ebb convince themselves that this is some kind of Romeo and Juliet thing - an imperfect storm of circumstances - same thing which is behind a lot of inappropriate, big power imbalanced, abusive relationships. This does not excuse their actions in the least but I think it is somewhat different than the 'grooming paedo' category that seems to be applied in all cases.


 
Insightful post. Thank you.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 26, 2012)

Brian Cox hasn't got a Manchester accent - He's a BIFFO ffs.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2012)

What's a BIFFO?


----------



## Espresso (Sep 26, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Brian Cox hasn't got a Manchester accent - He's a BIFFO ffs.


 
Ach, Oldham and Manchester are similar enough to be the same if you're from neither. 
And I say this a Northern person.
Do I have to hand my Northern card in now?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 26, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> What's a BIFFO?


 
Had to google that myself. Result is immediate, but think Oldham as the O.


----------



## wtfftw (Sep 26, 2012)

This song is on the French radio playlist at the mo


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 26, 2012)

Wilf said:


> http://jeremyayremusic.com/music/


 
jeremyayremusic = err, may seem juicy.. jury may see crime.. etc


----------



## Wilf (Sep 26, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> jeremyayremusic = err, may seem juicy.. jury may see crime.. etc


 Right, what can you make of the Glitter Band?


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 26, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Right, what can you make of the Glitter Band?


 
Brat tingled?


----------



## Cid (Sep 26, 2012)

Spoornerises quite well to 'bitter gland'.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 26, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Brat tingled?


 These are coming from a dark place aren't they?


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 27, 2012)

Wordsmith.com is a bit shady tbf


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 27, 2012)

Just reminded me of Garth Merenghi


----------



## tar1984 (Sep 27, 2012)

The one upside for this guy is all the hits his soundcloud will be getting.


----------



## tar1984 (Sep 27, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Some great stuff on there. Anybody got the chords?


 
For the first song there are two sections. With lyrical markers:

1.
_"i was afraid someone would catch us..."_
F,.....C,.........................A#

2.
_"i swear i will end this if all these shits keep running their mouth..."_
Dm,........... A#,.................... F,............................C

With a palm muted downstroke strumming pattern.

It's a little dark considering the circumstances but now you can play along at home.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2012)

tar1984 said:


> For the first song there are two sections. With lyrical markers:
> 
> 1.
> _"i was afraid someone would catch us..."_
> ...


 Keeping tabs on sex offenders?


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Sep 27, 2012)

15 years isn't a big difference really. Has anyone said this yet?

When he is 60, she will be 45. Doesn't look so bad then.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2012)

Stanley Edwards said:


> 15 years isn't a big difference really. Has anyone said this yet?
> 
> When he is 60, she will be 45. Doesn't look so bad then.


 I imagine his release date will be about then.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Sep 27, 2012)

Wilf said:


> I imagine his release date will be about then.


 
Perhaps they will reunite. Innocence remains in love.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 27, 2012)

31 pages.

Is there anything people enjoy discussing more than a sleazy sex story?


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Sep 27, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> 31 pages.
> 
> Is there anything people enjoy discussing more than a sleazy sex story?


 
Oh FFS. I thought it was a love story.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

About 15 of those pages were people talking about other things.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 27, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> 31 pages.
> 
> Is there anything people enjoy discussing more than a sleazy sex story?


This thread's mostly about love and music actually
There is no evidence to suggest that said teacher has had his strumming fingers anywhere near the young woman's squeeze box. Until such evidence is apparent then the discussion should really focus on his musical crimes and if her exposure to his love songs actually amounts to child abuse.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

Stanley Edwards said:


> 15 years isn't a big difference really. Has anyone said this yet?
> 
> When he is 60, she will be 45. Doesn't look so bad then.


 
Stanley missing the point by a country mile and some.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Stanley missing the point by a country mile and some.


Hmm somewhat


----------



## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Tbf, there's an extensive body of counselling / psychoanalytic literature on not sleeping with your clients (despite feeling tempted to), because it's such a widely recognised risk / difficulty.
> 
> Relationships are relationships, trust is trust, and power is power. Negotiating intimacy, trust & power isn't necessarily uncomplicated for anyone, but some people kinda lose sight of it more often.
> 
> If you looked for information on fucked relationships in social work, prisons & counselling IMO you'd find as many (if not more) examples. Only teachers are more likely to make it into the national press, not least because in their case a breach of trust means abusing a minor.


 
Good post.

The thing is, one of the reasons that it is written about so much is because it cane be difficult for the therapist / doctor / teacher to deal with the erotic transference that can arise between therapist/client doctor/patient and teacher/pupil.  The temptation to act out, especially when the client/patient/pupil is in love (has an idealised transference) towards the therapist/doctor/teacher, can be immense.  

Therapists are in a privileged situation inasmuch as we have a body of literature to consult, a supervisory system, access to personal therapy and a peer culture in which the erotic/idealised transference is acknowledged and openly discussed.  Even given these advantages and privileges it is shockingly common for therapists to act out the erotic transference with their clients.  Any therapist worth his or her salt knows how devastating it is for a client to enter into a sexual relationship with his or her therapist and yet still the abuses occur. 

It is my impression that in the teaching profession there is no real open and honest discussion of the powerful sexual dynamics that can occur between teacher and pupil.  I think that this is iteslf is problematic.

I can remember being at school aged maybe 13 or 14 and some of my female peers were discovering make up, boys, our bodies were changing and we became aware of a power that we had due to our growing breasts.  For me it was noticing that men followed me around everywhere and were either very nice or very sleazy towards me.  I was quite a shy swot at that age, but some of my peers were extremely sexually aggressive towards a certain drama teacher.  He was a good looking young man and several of the girls had crushes on him.   I am not aware that he violated and boundaries re actual touching but I can remember being present when an excited group of girls were asking him how far he had gone with his girlfriend sexually.  It was a long time ago and I don't remember the whole conversation but somehow they had persuaded him to disclose some personal information and it excited them as a group.  I remember them asking "Did you finger her sir?"  I was so embarrassed by this but the girls were somehow triumphant about getting this information from him.

The thing is, IME, young under-age girls do sometimes fantasise about their teachers and develop crushes on them.  It is extremely common and it is a prime example of a situation where a young person might want something very much, but for them to actually get what they want would be a disaster. 

I know that when I worked as a therapist I could feel completely free to discuss the erotic transference and counter transference in my supervisions group.  I cannot imagine that a teacher on the receiving end of such projections could feel comfortable to discuss the issue (especially his/her own erotic feelings) to his/her peers without fear of being branded as a nonce. 

People act out what they cannot think/talk about and thus, unfortunately, this kind of "romance" (if that is what is is) is going to happen again and again with all the predicable disastrous consequences for all concerned.  

Having said that, this teacher has committed a gross transgression of professional boundaries and if she was my daughter I would want his testicles for earrings.


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## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> The thing is, IME, young under-age girls do sometimes fantasise about their teachers and develop crushes on them.


 
IME it's not only young girls that fantasies about their teachers. 

This is hard to believe, I have no idea what the school or her were thinking, and I am bloody sure it would never happen nowadays, but the young female teacher in my case helped out raising funds at the school fete by selling kisses!!!! 

The queue of lads & dads was unbelievable, she was certainly the most popular 'attraction' at the fete!


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## trashpony (Sep 27, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> I know that when I worked as a therapist I could feel completely free to discuss the erotic transference and counter transference in my supervisions group. I cannot imagine that a teacher on the receiving end of such projections could feel comfortable to discuss the issue (especially his/her own erotic feelings) to his/her peers without fear of being branded as a nonce.
> 
> People act out what they cannot think/talk about and thus, unfortunately, this kind of "romance" (if that is what is is) is going to happen again and again with all the predicable disastrous consequences for all concerned.
> 
> Having said that, this teacher has committed a gross transgression of professional boundaries and if she was my daughter I would want his testicles for earrings.


I think it's acceptable for teachers to discuss students having crushes on them. Declaring erotic feelings about an underage child is never going to be socially acceptable, whether you're a teacher, a bus driver or Ian Huntley


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## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

catinthehat said:


> Whilst there is no excuse for the actions of the teacher in this or any similar case (Chris Woodhead ex OFSTED chief was pretty near the line) there is an element of the power that some pupils will start see that they can use themselves, naively and perhaps understandably but nevertheless putting some teachers in a really difficult position. If you work in a mixed staff room for any length of time you will encounter a male (I guess it can work the other way round but have never encountered it) teacher who is on the end of unwanted attention from young female pupils. The vast majority can deal with it through proper channels but it is really difficult because often they have to continue to work with the pupil, protect their self esteem and so on. I would imagine that a person in that position who was not robust, perhaps with half their world imploding from other circumstances, wanting some kind of affirmation etc might at a low ebb convince themselves that this is some kind of Romeo and Juliet thing - an imperfect storm of circumstances - same thing which is behind a lot of inappropriate, big power imbalanced, abusive relationships. This does not excuse their actions in the least but I think it is somewhat different than the 'grooming paedo' category that seems to be applied in all cases.


 
Good post. 

The thing is, and I think that this needs to be stated explicitly, that it is part of the professional duties of a teacher of adolescents to deal with crushes and erotic projections in a professional way.  If you are a good teacher, if your students like you and enjoy your classes there is likely to be a degree of erotic/romantic projection.  This is not necessarily a bad thing.  The erotic transference can help students to take in information, to think creatively and to learn.  

It is entirely OK and even to be expected IMO for teachers to sometimes have romantic or sexual feelings towards their teenage students.  The disastrous thing, for all concerned, is for the teacher to abuse his or her power by acting out those feelings.  

Teachers simply do not have sufficient support and a sufficiently open professional/ cultural milieu in which to help them think and talk about the feelings that will inevitably arise when working with teenagers.  

Having said that, I really do not know what has or has not happened with this particular teacher and this young girl.  From the press coverage with the emphasis on his love songs and romantic texts, he has been depicted as a tragic figure, a man who lost his head and let his heart rule.  

An earlier teacher at the school had abused more than one under-age pupil and was jailed and described as a paedophile who had groomed his victims.  

Is the current teacher a paedophile who groomed his victim?  A man who fell in love with the wrong person? A lying cheating husband who had ruined not just his own life but that of his wife and kids - who must be going through hell right now?   Maybe he is all of these things?  

My main concern is that his impulsive "romantic" side dos not translate into the pair of them doing something silly because they feel that they cannot return to =face the music.  Presumably this is the girl's parent's fear also.


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## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

trashpony said:


> I think it's acceptable for teachers to discuss students having crushes on them. Declaring erotic feelings about an underage child is never going to be socially acceptable, whether you're a teacher, a bus driver or Ian Huntley


 
But for a teacher an under age child could be 17 years old. Realistically people do not fail to have erotic feelings for another person simply because they fall one way or another on the side of a line - that line being 18 years.

In fact the unconscious Oedipal dynamics that can surface powerfully between individuals in "forbidden" relationships can actually make the erotic feelings feel like the "right" thing to do. I'm not just talking about teacher/pupil relationships but about say relationships between a therapist and client or between any adult ins a position of authority and privilege and another in a vulnerable role.

For me I come from a psychoanalytic tradition where it is taken for granted that human beings have all kinds of completely socially unacceptable thoughts and impulses. Also, from a psychoanalytic perspective people can literally "put feelings inside of you" (projective identification). I have never had erotic feelings towards a teenage client, but if I did have say a fleeting feeling of erotic fantasy about a teenage client then I would consider it a manifestation of projective identification and thus something that absolutely 100% had to be discussed in supervision. The fact that I have access to such a system immediately means that I would (or should at least) be able to put my counter transference to the service of the work without feeling any embarrassment about it and thus not feel compelled to act it out (as so often happens when people are unable to process thoughts and feelings).

eta

Obviously is a therapist or teacher is preoccupied with constant feelings of sexual attraction towards clients / pupils then that is something completely different, especially if they constantly fantasise about sex with vulnerable adolescents (obviously).


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## DRINK? (Sep 27, 2012)

wonder if he can argue that he was rounding up to the nearest whole number?


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## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

according to this news report http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...r-jeremy-forrest/story-fndo2j43-1226482457912 the French police are not looking for Megan as the age of consent is 15 and the teacher is not considered to have committed any crime.  They are described as "lovers" in the French media and Megan's photo has not been published widely as to do so would infringe their privacy laws.


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## chazegee (Sep 27, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> according to this news report http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...r-jeremy-forrest/story-fndo2j43-1226482457912 the French police are not looking for Megan as the age of consent is 15 and the teacher is not considered to have committed any crime. They are described as "lovers" in the French media and Megan's photo has not been published widely as to do so would infringe their privacy laws.


 
Now there is some sense. A law that won't drive two randy idiots a suicide pact.


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## mack (Sep 27, 2012)

Feels like the press are getting a bit bored of this now, no new angles for them to exploit/investigate.

I used to be friends with the Stammers back in high school, really really nice family, hope everything turns out ok for them.


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## likesfish (Sep 27, 2012)

chazegee said:


> Now there is some sense. A law that won't drive two randy idiots a suicide pact.



Thats been my chief fear and the more I've heard of this pratt the more I worry egotistical immature ,the worlds against are love or some sort of crap.


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## co-op (Sep 27, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Thats been my chief fear and the more I've heard of this pratt the more I worry egotistical immature ,the worlds against are love or some sort of crap.


 
Also the media and police-chase hysteria means that neither of them can get in touch with anyone back home because they'll be so paranoid, so no chance for a reality check or just a chat with a friend.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 27, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I think his tattoo of the Holly-Hobby-like girl is extremely creepy. Yuck.


 
i don't know what Holly-Hobby-like means, but I think the tattoo only becomes really creepy in context of the "story"


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## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

She's 15 year old kid who said she loves her mum enormously, she's going to make contact sooner or later.


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## purves grundy (Sep 27, 2012)

co-op said:


> Also the media and police-chase hysteria means that neither of them can get in touch with anyone back home because they'll be so paranoid, so no chance for a reality check or just a chat with a friend.


yeah, one of them will have to wise up independently (I reckon it'll be her, she has much more to lose) and then brave the tears and garment-rending of the other party.


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## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> ..... My main concern is that his impulsive "romantic" side dos not translate into the pair of them doing something silly because they feel that they cannot return to =face the music. Presumably this is the girl's parent's fear also.


 
This is my main concern also....


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 27, 2012)

trashpony said:


> I think it's acceptable for teachers to discuss students having crushes on them. Declaring erotic feelings about an underage child is never going to be socially acceptable, whether you're a teacher, a bus driver or Ian Huntley


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## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

I knew that was going to be bloody Sting


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## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

chazegee said:


> Now there is some sense. A law that won't drive two randy idiots a suicide pact.


 
Well it may seem like sense, but if anything happens to the girl due to the inactions of the French, they are not going to come out of this well.

Rock & hard place.


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## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Well it may seem like sense, but if anything happens to the girl due to the inactions of the French, they are not going to come out of this well.
> 
> Rock & hard place.


Like the French have always been concerned if the Brits think they haven't come out of <whatever> well


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

purves grundy said:


> yeah, one of them will have to wise up independently (I reckon it'll be her, she has much more to lose) and then brave the tears and garment-rending of the other party.


or maybe in 20 years time we'll see them in a daily heil exposes of where they are now and they've lived happily ever after... you know we don't have to all wish it ends in rape murder suicide however fucked up it appears from the outside... 

really as with the whole gone off with a child must be fucking them public mentality is a sickness so is expecting them dead or raped... 

seek professional help for your warped world view... 

as at this point it's all idel speculation why not speculate they're at the honeymoon suite at euro-disney having a wale of a time...


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

As a teacher, the failing of safeguarding here means anyone who let this get so far should take some time off to consider their position.


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## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> As a teacher, the failing of safeguarding here means anyone who let this get so far should take some time off to consider their position.



So a sabbatical in the south of france might be just what the man needs


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## purves grundy (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> or maybe in 20 years time we'll see them in a daily heil exposes of where they are now and they've lived happily ever after... you know we don't have to all wish it ends in rape murder suicide however fucked up it appears from the outside...
> 
> really as with the whole gone off with a child must be fucking them public mentality is a sickness so is expecting them dead or raped...
> 
> ...


Who's wishing it ends in rape murder suicide?? 

It's more of a brute fact rather than idle speculation that an adult has gone off with a child.


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> So a sabbatical in the south of france might be just what the man needs



 but


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## ChrissyJones (Sep 27, 2012)

I really hope they just give it up. At the moment for her it seems terribly romantic I am sure, but there must be something in the back of her mind thinking this is wrong


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> As a teacher, the failing of safeguarding here means anyone who let this get so far should take some time off to consider their position.


to allow peados once might be considered a mistake but to allow them 3 times must be considered a resignation (and school closure too boot...)


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## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2012)

If only they had gone to the Ecuadorean embassy...


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## weepiper (Sep 27, 2012)

For the people who think 'she's nearly a grown-up, so what?' and 'it's not as bad as raping a three-year-old'

http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2012/09/so-what-fill-in-blank-here.html


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

15 is seen as a grey area. Now, if it was a 16 year old and a 15 year old then there's a certain amount of room to manouver. But a teacher in loco parentis? No, sorry, that's child abuse.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

purves grundy said:


> Who's wishing it ends in rape murder suicide??
> 
> It's more of a brute fact rather than idle speculation that an adult has gone off with a child.


What brutal fact would that be then an adult has gone off with a child somewhere which automatically makes that sexual... (it probably is sure but you can't say it is until that's discovered/revelled)  but to automatically assume it is a FACT when it's not at this point it's speculation shows how pervasive the mental illness of the culture is...

when one sees a man of any age gapp with a younger woman and one automatically assumes they are sexual relations going on between them it's you that has the problem not them... an auto assumption of the sexualised nature of the relationship is still sexually objectifying the child and that is half the problem within our society today isn't it the fact that children are viewed as sexual objects.  Don't tell me they're not go look at playboy teeshirts for 8 year olds, or the like... it's a massive problem and the auto assumption of sexual relations between a minor and and adult whenever someone not their own flesh and blood is in contact with them is also part of this problem... 

It's what leads to parents complaining that people are taking photos at football matches, school runs and mums and dads needing CRB's before supervising their childs mates etc etc etc... 

Nor am I saying we should sweep child abuse under the table, just that the auto assumption is actually as insipid as the act it's self... It's like the whole red peril moral panics in the states in the 50's.... the whole if you don't support our hatred then your one of them type thing...


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> That's what I am using, King of Shaves, it's amazing! I just used to buy the supermarkets own brand shaving foam but the other week I needed a new razor. So I thought I'd treat myself and bought a new butterfly razor, King of Shaves shaving gel, some shaving oil and moisturiser. Absolutely loving it, I have been missing out this for over ten years!!


 
You should post on the "shaving snobbery" thread in knobbing and sobbing.


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## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

Garf, you might think: "when one sees a man of any age gapp with a younger woman and one automatically assumes they are sexual relations going on between them" ...

I certainly don't. In fact when I see an adult with a child, that is exactly what I see, an adult and a child, probably from the same family!


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> For the people who think 'she's nearly a grown-up, so what?' and 'it's not as bad as raping a three-year-old'
> 
> http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2012/09/so-what-fill-in-blank-here.html


incidentally for anyone not hysterical joining the thread absolutely no one has honestly put forward this suggestion on the thread or anywhere else it would appear this poster has some deluded fantasy where we must at all times think of the potential children and what we might possibly have thought not what's actually been discussed at any point... 

can you name names piper... of those who are saying that she's nearly grown up... please... 

can you... 

you know anyone who wasn't trolling the thread and put this forward as a genuine POV... 

name names or cease making groundless accusations against posters AGAIN...

particularly ones of supporting child abuse that's pretty despicable and mendacious of you...


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## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> For the people who think 'she's nearly a grown-up, so what?' and 'it's not as bad as raping a three-year-old'
> 
> http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2012/09/so-what-fill-in-blank-here.html


 
That article is all over the place tbf, it just says that 15 year olds can be taken advantage and then foolishly compares two different situations. This teacher might be a predatory type like the men in Rochdale, or he could be an immature idiot who genuinely thinks he is in love etc, but using one as an example to argue the problem with the other is just a bit crap, especially as it doesn't actually deal with the real problems of a teacher running off with a 15 year old regardless of who genuine he believes his affections are or how mature the student is for her age.


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Garf, some of us are fucking fuming that this fucking dickhead has completely broken the legal duty of care he had to that child not to whisk her off to France. And the authorities will nail him on that if they find there to be no sexual activity. 

As a male teacher, it's fuckwits like this that make the rest of us be treated suspiciously by parents and puts off talented people from considering the professon because of the stigma.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Garf, you might think: "when one sees a man of any age gapp with a younger woman and one automatically assumes they are sexual relations going on between them" ...
> 
> I certainly don't. In fact when I see an adult with a child, that is exactly what I see, an adult and a child, probably from the same family!


No I don't but look at the posts here even look at weepipers as an example... 

a lot of posters are instantly assuming that this is a man whos boffing a child and then react accoridngly, I'm saying that that reaction, that assumption is a sign of mental illness.... and you can't say that the media moral panic around it hasn't been peddling this line either, nor the facebook moron campagins etc... 

so clearly you and I are in the minority when it comes to these things of not thinking man with child peado... not the majority, but it doesn't mean the worlds not mentally ill about it... i mean it's some fucked up thinking no...


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## weepiper (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> That article is all over the place tbf, it just says that 15 year olds can be taken advantage and then foolishly compares two different situations. This teacher might be a predatory type like the men in Rochdale, or he could be an immature idiot who genuinely thinks he is in love etc, but using one as an example to argue the problem with the other is just a bit crap, especially as it doesn't actually deal with the real problems of a teacher running off with a 15 year old regardless of who genuine he believes his affections are or how mature the student is for her age.


 
You miss the point, which is that regardless of his intentions towards her, he is the adult and he is the one taking advantage. And that perhaps authorities in this case have also let things slide because they see her as 'old enough to make her own mind up'.


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## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Garf, some of us are fucking fuming that this fucking dickhead has completely broken the legal duty of care he had to that child not to whisk her off to France. And the authorities will nail him on that if they find there to be no sexual activity.
> 
> As a male teacher, it's fuckwits like this that make the rest of us be treated suspiciously by parents and puts off talented people from considering the professon because of the stigma.


 
If you are actually personally fuming you need to have a reality check. You might think what a dickhead but actually fuming, wise up. If that has you fuming what's your response to wars etc


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## wayward bob (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> a lot of posters are instantly assuming that this is a man whos boffing a child and then react accoridngly, I'm saying that that reaction, that assumption is a sign of mental illness


 
get a fucking grip ffs.


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## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> 15 is seen as a grey area. Now, if it was a 16 year old and a 15 year old then there's a certain amount of room to manouver. But a teacher in loco parentis? No, sorry, that's child abuse.


 
We do not actually know whether he has sexually abused the girl or not.
What is abusive and completely unprofessional is that, regardless of whether he has sexually abused her, he has taken her away for a romantic holiday in the full knowledge that her parents will be beside themselves with worry and that his own family must be going through hell.


A European arrest warrant has been issued for the teacher and the French will comply with it
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...way-maths-teacher-for-abduction-of-Megan.html

This account in the Mail is interesting
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...essages-girls-school-sent-birthday-cards.html

It suggests that he was the "cool" teacher who the girls had a crush on and who was very popular with students and staff.

Reading between the lines it would appear that he was too "client identified" - that is to say that he related to the kids more than to his peers. IME there is always a danger of boundaries being transgressed with this kind of teacher because their grasp on reality and need for attention and affection - and to appear "cool" is often greater than their grasp on reality and professsional boundaries.

I have met countless youth workers and social workers who have become unprofessional due to their over-identification with clients and their corresponding lack of professional boundaries.


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## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Garf, some of us are fucking fuming that this fucking dickhead has completely broken the legal duty of care he had to that child not to whisk her off to France. And the authorities will nail him on that if they find there to be no sexual activity.
> 
> As a male teacher, it's fuckwits like this that make the rest of us be treated suspiciously by parents and puts off talented people from considering the professon because of the stigma.


Also as a result of this it's discovered that the school had previous, which calls Into question their safeguarding principles for all students in their care, not just this latest example that's thrown the issue into high relief.


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Ever had a parent question your suitability as their childs teacher simply because you're male? To the headteacher? Because around the time there had been similar stories to this one? 

It pushes my 'really fucking awful memory' button, and gets me angry - because somewhere there's a good teacher being treated like a potential abductor, and somewhere else there's someone else choosing not to take the risk of joining the profession becasue of the stigma attached.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Garf, some of us are fucking fuming that this fucking dickhead has completely broken the legal duty of care he had to that child not to whisk her off to France. And the authorities will nail him on that if they find there to be no sexual activity.
> 
> As a male teacher, it's fuckwits like this that make the rest of us be treated suspiciously by parents and puts off talented people from considering the professon because of the stigma.


no doubt... 

but to assume sexual activity prior to this being prove is a mental illness... 

you know leads to all kinds of unintended consiquences, further compounds issues and then reinforces the whole concept that men shouldn't work with chidlren or you know will add to the stigma.

you can't with one hand say well ok he might not have boffed her but on the other say this is adding to the stigma... either you beleive he's had sexual releations with him when this is unproved or you don't.  

If parents assume via the re-enforced culture that all children will be sexual abused around men then there's culturally something wrong.  deeply wrong.  something which culturally goes beyond the levels of merely child abuse... it's red peril all over again... but with kids not commies...


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## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> You miss the point, which is that regardless of his intentions towards her, he is the adult and he is the one taking advantage. And that perhaps authorities in this case have also let things slide because they see her as 'old enough to make her own mind up'.


 
I really don't think the authorities have let it slide on that basis, which is one of the problems with the article, it doesn't seem to grasp that the treatment of the girl in Rochdale was so fucked up because she was in care and all the fucked up prejudices that come with that, that she wasn't the ideal victim because she was messed up herself.

The schools failure to act was more likely to be the standard not wanting to rock the boat, cause scandal etc rather than "she's 15 she's grand".


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Im not adding to the stigma garf, you daft plum, but the wider implication will be that it does.


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## friedaweed (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no doubt...
> 
> *but to assume sexual activity prior to this being prove is a mental illness...*
> 
> .


Absolute bollocks


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## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Ever had a parent question your suitability as their childs teacher simply because you're male? To the headteacher? Because around the time there had been similar stories to this one?
> 
> It pushes my 'really fucking awful memory' button, and gets me angry - because somewhere there's a good teacher being treated like a potential abductor, and somewhere else there's someone else choosing not to take the risk of joining the profession becasue of the stigma attached.


 
best bet is to hit on one of the older mums at parents evening, thus demonstrating you prefer the older ladies.


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## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Absolute bollocks


Garf, it's the sort of daft analogy comment that further reinforces the stigma of mental illness.


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## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no doubt...
> 
> but to assume sexual activity prior to this being prove is a mental illness...


 
No, I think mental ilnesses are something rather different.

As to attitudes today: I do not point my camera at other people's kids without the expressed permission of their parents.


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> best bet is to hit on one of the older mums at parents evening, thus demonstrating you prefer the older ladies.



[throwaway comment about having done that with your mother]


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## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> [throwaway comment about having done that with your mother]


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## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> No, I think mental ilnesses are something rather different.
> 
> As to attitudes today: I do not point my camera at other people's kids without the expressed permission of their parents.


 
Sad times.


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## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

To speculate, drawing knowledge from previous similar cases, about something which we don't yet have the details on, is not mental illness.

You've got to be mentally ill to think that. Right? Oh.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

One thing I have oddly not seen brought up is the power imbalance arising from their personal resources.  If she decides she has had enough and wants to come home, will she have either the world-experience or the personal resources necessary to know how to manage it?  Or is she totally dependent on his good graces, for him to abide by her wishes?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> To speculate, drawing knowledge from previous similar cases, about something which we don't yet have the details on, is not mental illness.
> 
> You've got to be mentally ill to think that. Right? Oh.


 
You'd have to be trolling really hard to imagine sexual relations are not relevant in this case.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Ever had a parent question your suitability as their childs teacher simply because you're male? To the headteacher? Because around the time there had been similar stories to this one?
> 
> It pushes my 'really fucking awful memory' button, and gets me angry - because somewhere there's a good teacher being treated like a potential abductor, and somewhere else there's someone else choosing not to take the risk of joining the profession becasue of the stigma attached.


yes I have, repeatedly. 

I've even been investigated because of one manic parent.  in spite of having been totally in the right at all times the parent used the RED PERIL to try and force their child back into the group after they were excluded for their violent behaviour.  I've also had claims of abuse for restraining a child who was attacking another, neither charges stuck because neither were true.  it doesn't change the fact that people world rather see sexual abuse of a child as normalised and boud to happen (well he's a bloke working with kid's what more do I need to say...) that shows how mentally ill our society is... that this situation could ever be allowed to occur in the first place IE that the merely gender itself was able to support and allegation not evidence, the instant assumption shows we're already down a culturally despicable road. 

ultimately, whilst men have throughout history been in ascendancy in this one issue we are now probably the most single discriminated group.  No one would ever look at a woman and say peado with a kid as an instant judgement.  the fact that we've allowed this to happen to men is a sickening indictment of our society in my view...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> You'd have to be trolling really hard to imagine sexual relations are not relevant in this case.


you have to be quite mentally ill to assume it's the default response without proof...


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

OWM alert.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

kabbes said:


> One thing I have oddly not seen brought up is the power imbalance arising from their personal resources. If she decides she has had enough and wants to come home, will she have either the world-experience or the personal resources necessary to know how to manage it? Or is she totally dependent on his good graces, for him to abide by her wishes?


 
another argument for undercutting teachers wages, thanks.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Except in those cases where women have been involved. Hindley, that woman down in Portsmouth, etc.

And mentally ill? No. Fearful, based on speculation and a lack of knowledge of the real statistics, yes. Knee jerk? Yes. Mentally ill? Have a word.


----------



## Yu_Gi_Oh (Sep 27, 2012)

kabbes said:


> One thing I have oddly not seen brought up is the power imbalance arising from their personal resources. If she decides she has had enough and wants to come home, will she have either the world-experience or the personal resources necessary to know how to manage it? Or is she totally dependent on his good graces, for him to abide by her wishes?


 
Hopefully she's just be able to hand herself into the nearest police station.  I do wonder how stubborn she's going to be, assuming she is able to leave him.  At 15 I would have been humiliated/defiant and been very reluctant to come home, even if I were in a terrible situation.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> another argument for undercutting teachers wages, thanks.


 
Good point. Make teachers too poor to be _able_ to whisk their underage charges to France and the whole problem goes away.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> Garf, it's the sort of daft analogy comment that further reinforces the stigma of mental illness.


really you think that the world is sane when it assumes sexual relations between adults and children as the default... 

ok then...


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

kabbes said:


> Good point. Make teachers too poor to be _able_ to whisk their underage charges to France and the whole problem goes away.



Gove is on this like a maths teacher on a sealink


----------



## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Ever had a parent question your suitability as their childs teacher simply because you're male? To the headteacher? Because around the time there had been similar stories to this one?
> 
> It pushes my 'really fucking awful memory' button, and gets me angry - because somewhere there's a good teacher being treated like a potential abductor, and somewhere else there's someone else choosing not to take the risk of joining the profession becasue of the stigma attached.


 
Interesting post. 

If you read the US section of the mail online it is always choc full of lurid accounts of female teachers seducing their teenage students, often aftler plying them with alcohol. 

It seems to me that there are different types of sexually abusive teachers; the predatory paedophile who repeatedly grooms and abuses children in his or her care and the emotionally needy, probably depressed teacher (can be male or female) who believes that they have "fallen in love" with a pupil (can also be male or female)who they believe is "the one", usually as a defence against facing up to mundane prom;ems in his or her life. 

I am not in a million years claiming that the latter type is not abusive, because it obviously is, just thinking aloud about the differences in intent.  In the former the intent is predatory, in the latter the intent is cowardly and deluded.  Maybe it is also predatory but the abuser has just justified it to him/herself with a veneer of romantic sugar coating?  Just really thinking aloud


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

Yu_Gi_Oh said:


> Hopefully she's just be able to hand herself into the nearest police station.


She's 15 though.  Will she be aware of this?  Or will she be too worried to do so, thinking it will land her in trouble?

As an adult, the solution is obvious.  But to a teenager, I'm not so sure.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

kabbes said:


> Good point. Make teachers too poor to be _able_ to whisk their underage charges to France and the whole problem goes away.


 
Somewhere in westminister a fresh faced oxford graduate has just printed that off and running to Gove's office.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

He'd still be able to afford a caravan holiday in bognor


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> OWM alert.


seeing as you know me and my racial origins thanks for that...  never had you down as a closet racist  before... still you live and learn... 

so it's fine all men are potential peados who as soon as look at kids have raped them back to normal people nothing to see... but only get worried if they are black is that what your saying... 

otherwise it's just white men complaining they can't fuck kids for fear of being exposed, black men can they won't be...

that's your point yeah...

well made...

not at all dismissive condensing at all eh...  

any male who complains is just another moaner who should shut up, and we'll call them white just to further reduce any point they've made... lovely attitude.. good one...


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

Caravan of love.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> really you think that the world is sane when it assumes sexual relations between adults and children as the default...
> 
> ok then...


I think that criticising society's attitudes is a healthy thing to do. To consign any dodgy attitudes to a continuing stigma of mental illness, isn't.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you have to be quite mentally ill to assume it's the default response without proof...


 Christ Garfield, just shut the fuck up.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

kabbes said:


> She's 15 though. Will she be aware of this? Or will she be too worried to do so, thinking it will land her in trouble?
> 
> As an adult, the solution is obvious. But to a teenager, I'm not so sure.


yes dude she's 15 not 5...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> I think that criticising society's attitudes is a healthy thing to do. To consign any dodgy attitudes to a continuing stigma of mental illness, isn't.


so long as you don't get called or are white or male that is... 

in which case you've no right to any opinion...

that's your caveat...  

care to explain your racist comment?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes dude she's 15 not 5...


OK, you're convinced.  I'm not.  15 year-olds can be incredibly clueless.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> For the people who think 'she's nearly a grown-up, so what?' and 'it's not as bad as raping a three-year-old'
> 
> http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2012/09/so-what-fill-in-blank-here.html


 
not to go on at you but having read that again this stood out as pretty mental, obviously not the bit about ideally being an adult nearby to help not exploit you, more the bullshit notion that childhood should be extended as long as possible, that blissful ignorance about the world should be maintained, something which I think works to disempower children and serves only to help those who'd seek to exploit and abuse them.



> Childhood ends at different points for everyone, but it's generally when you realise the world can be a horrible place. That moment should be put off for as long as possible, and when it happens there's ideally an adult nearby who can help you adjust to the idea, not exploit it for their own ends.


 
and also I put it to you that this simply isn't as bad as raping a 3 year old, which isn't to say it's grand just that you know it isn't as bad as raping a 3 year old.


----------



## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes dude she's 15 not 5...


 
Some 15 year olds are very mature in some ways, very responsibly and emotionally intelligent. 15 year olds are still extremely vulnerable when it comes to sexual matters, especially with someone twice their age who is in a position of loco parentis.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> seeing as you know me and my racial origins thanks for that...  never had you down as a closet racist  before... still you live and learn...
> 
> so it's fine all men are potential peados who as soon as look at kids have raped them back to normal people nothing to see... but only get worried if they are black is that what your saying...
> 
> ...



Your fucking analysis skills need some work. Shove it, sunshine.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

One thing I don't get about all this is _how _he was able to take her to another country.

I'm sure I've read stories about separated parents struggling to take their kid abroad because the other parent hadn't given permission for them to leave the country.  Or maybe I'm getting confused with taking them to _live_ abroad.  What I'm trying to say is wouldn't the border authorities have done any checks to see that this child is not running away and ask her who she is traveling with?


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so long as you don't get called or are white or male that is...
> 
> in which case you've no right to any opinion...
> 
> ...



Do one.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> Some 15 year olds are very mature in some ways, very responsibly and emotionally intelligent. 15 year olds are still extremely vulnerable when it comes to sexual matters, especially with someone twice their age who is in a position of locus parentis.


 
Going from the teachers shit music and lyrics I think he's a emotionally 15 himself.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> One thing I don't get about all this is _how _he was able to take her to another country.
> 
> I'm sure I've read stories about separated parents struggling to take their kid abroad because the other parent hadn't given permission for them to leave the country. Or maybe I'm getting confused with taking them to _live_ abroad. What I'm trying to say is wouldn't the border authorities have done any checks to see that this child is not running away and ask her who she is traveling with?


If she has her own passport, I can't see French border guards looking twice.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Going from the teachers shit music and lyrics I think he's a emotionally 15 himself.


 
Maybe he is. Doesn't excuse the school letting this happen, they knew questions had been raised on a school trip yet nothing seems to have been done about it.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Christ Garfield, just shut the fuck up.


so you don't think that there's something wrong with the delusion that is prevalent within society that male with child = peado... nothing at all... 

here's why it's a mental illness: if your first thought is sexual relations with a child when you see that then this is a serious delusion which needs medical aide... serious delusions are mental illness. ok. happy with the terminologies being used now.  as seemingly that's what people what to debate the minutie of the terms not the very obvious concept behind them.  

but hey I'm an adopted kracker now so what would I know...


----------



## Louloubelle (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> not to go on at you but having read that again this stood out as pretty mental, obviously not the bit about ideally being an adult nearby to help not exploit you, more the bullshit notion that childhood should be extended as long as possible, that blissful ignorance about the world should be maintained, something which I think works to disempower children and serves only to help those who'd seek to exploit and abuse them.


 
The thing is IMO that at age 15 a girl partly a child and partly an adult.  Her body is growing into an adult and her hormones are playing havoc with her mind (at least mine were at that age).  There is a reason why we have laws protecting minors and part of the reason is that we recognise that 15 year olds do have crushes on older people.  They do fairly commonly lust after teachers and adults in positions of authority, it is a typically Oedipal thing.  It is the responsibility of the adult to deal with the crushes and projections as a responsible adult and not to act on them. The teacher is 30 years old FFS, if he was not a teacher and was say 17 years old then the fact that she was 15 would probably not be so much of an issue.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> Some 15 year olds are very mature in some ways, very responsibly and emotionally intelligent. 15 year olds are still extremely vulnerable when it comes to sexual matters, especially with someone twice their age who is in a position of loco parentis.


most though have learned how to tell the police by heart by 15 though...


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

kabbes said:


> If she has her own passport, I can't see French border guards looking twice.


 
I meant in Dover.  No checks done on the way out?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Maybe he is. Doesn't excuse the school letting this happen, they knew questions had been raised on a school trip yet nothing seems to have been done about it.


 
It doesn't excuse him either.

But yeah it seems the school were in no hurry to do something but I'd suggest that was the typical response of an institution not wanting to embarass itself and hoping the issue would go away, which like I said isn't comparable to the situation in Rochdale with the girls in care, that was far more to do with a blaming the victim mentality and all the other prejudices tied to kids at risk.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Maybe he is. Doesn't excuse the school letting this happen, they knew questions had been raised on a school trip yet nothing seems to have been done about it.


yeah I mean they had staff meetings and everything to discuss how they could best organise the timetables to suit his relationship with her...   let it happen... someone think of the children ...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> The thing is IMO that at age 15 a girl partly a child and partly an adult. Her body is growing into an adult and her hormones are playing havoc with her mind (at least mine were at that age). There is a reason why we have laws protecting minors and part of the reason is that we recognise that 15 year olds do have crushes on older people. They do fairly commonly lust after teachers and adults in positions of authority, it is a typically Oedipal thing. It is the responsibility of the adult to deal with the crushes and projections as a responsible adult and not to act on them. The teacher is 30 years old FFS, if he was not a teacher and was say 17 years old then the fact that she was 15 would probably not be so much of an issue.


 
No one is contesting that, more the general reactionary notion of childhood and growing up that was tagged onto the article.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Christ Garfield....


 
FFS don't feed his martyrdom complex!!!


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I meant in Dover. No checks done on the way out?


 
why would they pull them up? what sort of mental society do you think we should live in?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2012)

All of this is rich, considering Garf's hostility to the mother of a teenager who had an inappropriate relationship with a younger teenager. He seemed to think it was apt to label the son as a paedophile. 
Could Garf possibly be a hypocrite like the rest of us?


----------



## weepiper (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> It doesn't excuse him either.
> 
> But yeah it seems the school were in no hurry to do something but I'd suggest that was the typical response of an institution not wanting to embarass itself and hoping the issue would go away, which like I said isn't comparable to the situation in Rochdale with the girls in care, that was far more to do with a blaming the victim mentality and all the other prejudices tied to kids at risk.


 
An institution where another teacher had been jailed 3 years previously for grooming and having sex with his students?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19725791

You'd think they might have learned something from that.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> An institution where previously another teacher had been jailed 3 years previously for grooming and having sex with his students?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19725791
> 
> You'd think they might have learned something from that.


 
wait to I tell you about the Catholic Church...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> Do one.


no you expalin why you claimed I was an OPPRESSED WHITE MALE... 

please... 

it's a racist term, you also know to be false personally, so why did you use a racist term against some one to diminish their comments?

or retract your racist term but don't think you can wriggle out of it any more than if you'd said someone had made a comment because they were any other colour...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

oh ffs cesare why did you stupidly feed him that bone.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 27, 2012)

Their not going to be chased by les OB apparently  as the parents haven't claimed this girls been kidnapped and the French media aren't interested, I think we should focus on the scum in Rochdale that accused a 15yr old of being a prostitute and did nothing to protect her


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2012)

No more drugs or caffeine for graf, matron


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no you expalin why you claimed I was an OPPRESSED WHITE MALE...
> 
> please...
> 
> ...



It's only a rascist term in your oppressed fantasies.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

kabbes said:


> OK, you're convinced. I'm not. 15 year-olds can be incredibly clueless.


 
Fucking 25-yr olds can be incredibly clueless - everyone can. It's part of being a human to not have all the answers, as well as to not see the answers that are right in front of you.
As for Garf's mithering about mental illness, I tend not to think that people believing that there might be a sexual element to this saga is "mental illness", but a manifestation of that old practice of "expect the worst, hope for the best".


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> .. I'm sure I've read stories about separated parents struggling to take their kid abroad because the other parent hadn't given permission for them to leave the country. Or maybe I'm getting confused with taking them to _live_ abroad. What I'm trying to say is wouldn't the border authorities have done any checks to see that this child is not running away and ask her who she is traveling with?


 
I have a British passport. My son has a Spanish one (I just didn't get round to getting him a British one yet). My ex is Spanish. Neither of us have been questionned when taking sprog abroad.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> oh ffs cesare why did you stupidly feed him that bone.


It could have been worse. I could have mentioned an ancient geographical area of the Middle East if I'd wanted to really wind him up.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> Do one.


 
He can't.

He's too busy clutching at straws.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

personally I'm still hoping that the art school in Austria angle turns out to be true, oh and the subplot of him struggling to come out as a gay man trapped in a loveless marriage.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> He can't.
> 
> He's too busy clutching at straws.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Its not a delusion, it's a fear. A fear that people justify by cases such as this one. And previous ones. A fear expressed is not a delusion. People don't automatically assume when they see a man with a child they're a paedo. If the man takes the child out of the country without parental permission, abusing his position in the process - then it's not a great leap to serious questions of what other abuses may be occurring.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 27, 2012)

Im sorry but at 15 you are not emotionally mature, even if your body is.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> personally I'm still hoping that the art school in Austria angle turns out to be true, oh and the subplot of him struggling to come out as a gay man trapped in a loveless marriage.


What is this, I haven't heard anything along those lines?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Just for the record can everyone say whether or not this situation is worse than the rape of a 3 year old child, I mean it seems patently obvious to me that it is...

edit, that it isn't worse, jesus!


----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> All of this is rich, considering Garf's hostility to the mother of a teenager who had an inappropriate relationship with a younger teenager. He seemed to think it was apt to label the son as a paedophile.
> Could Garf possibly be a hypocrite like the rest of us?


 But... he lives in a mental world, floods of mental illness, Jimmy Saville-world where it never got Fixed.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> All of this is rich, considering Garf's hostility to the mother of a teenager who had an inappropriate relationship with a younger teenager. He seemed to think it was apt to label the son as a paedophile.


 
yeah best you not comment there lad, she her self on several occasions called a 13 year old a slut and attempted to justify her 18 year old sons sexually releations with the child and then decided to call the police when the child went off the rails after her son stopped seeing her... she also lied about the girls age repeadtly, and about her sons age, and then claimed it was entirely acceptable in her country as the legal age of consent was 12 when it was 15, then raise to 16  durign the alleged time frame, then she said her community had had several different men within it all have sexual releations with the child and this was why she was the slut... 

so you have a woman who at several differing points justifies the sexual abuse of a child by turning the child into the victim not those around her who wriggles continually in order to justifiy her sons abuse of that child hcanges the story when challenged and faced with elements which would disprove her story as being child abuse not young love.

but you not knowing any of this and not really caring either think it's fine to use such an example of a preidory peadophile and their mothers covering it up to justify you attack on me love it...

you look a bit stoopid now though don't you... huh... peado defender...  


Orang Utan said:


> Could Garf possibly be a hypocrite like the rest of us?


 
anyone who thinks they are not is very delusional indeed... we're all hypocrites...

just some of use don't use racism or indeed defence peados while we're about it... still intresting thread outing some very intresting opinions today it appears...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Going from the teachers shit music and lyrics I think he's a emotionally 15 himself.


 
Quite likely. That's not a justification for his behaviour, though. Shit, it's not even an excuse. He's done his PGCE, he'll have had to pass the ethics module, so his emotional age is irrelevant to the fact that he will be fully aware that what he's done is ethically wrong, that it transgresses not just professional boundaries, but legality too.
As for the twat's lyrics, self-indulgent twaddle isn't in it!


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Just for the record can everyone say whether or not this situation is worse than the rape of a 3 year old child, I mean it seems patently obvious to me that it is...



It's also worse than standing on an upturned plug in bare feet, leaving your keys in the car and forgetting to put the bins out.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I meant in Dover. No checks done on the way out?


 
Not unless you're non-white and/or look working-class or "chavvy" or scruffy. Same at St. Pancras. You have to actually *look* like a wrong'un for them to check you.


----------



## the button (Sep 27, 2012)

So is Garf a vibrant, then? I've met him too. Obviously he's not as white as me because I'm a Yorkshire, but even so.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> why would they pull them up? what sort of mental society do you think we should live in?


 
I don't know.  I just assumed, wrongly, that a child traveling with a man who is not her family would be asked a question or two.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> What is this, I haven't heard anything along those lines?


 
apparently she wanted to pursue her education at an elite art school in Austria that her art teacher had helped her apply for, her parents weren't happy with this and thought she should stay in the UK and concentrate on more practical studies, hence them hiring the maths teacher for extra tutoring. From there they got close to each other as he was struggling with his sexuality in a loveless marriage he felt pushed into and so they have ran off to europe, her to do art and him to do, well, men, I guess.

All lived happily ever after.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> apparently she wanted to pursue her education at an elite art school in Austria that her art teacher had helped her apply for, her parents weren't happy with this and thought she should stay in the UK and concentrate on more practical studies, hence them hiring the maths teacher for extra tutoring. From there they got close to each other as he was struggling with his sexuality in a loveless marriage he felt pushed into and so they have ran off to europe, her to do art and him to do, well, men, I guess.
> 
> All lived happily ever after.



Directed by Polanski, coming to a cinema near you.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I have a British passport. My son has a Spanish one (I just didn't get round to getting him a British one yet). My ex is Spanish. Neither of us have been questionned when taking sprog abroad.


 
Fair enough.  I don't have kids, and don't travel abroad very often, so I'm a bit in the dark about how all this works.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 27, 2012)

Garf - the parent's behaviour is irrelevant to your characterisation of her son as a paedophile and your attitude towards the other case


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I don't know. I just assumed, wrongly, that a child traveling with a man who is not her family would be asked a question or two.


I can remember going on a driving holiday with a friend's family way back, no questions at Dover.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> It's only a rascist term in your oppressed fantasies.


which infers I must be white.  when you know this ain't true... so why make the claim... 

and yes it's racist... using someones colour to denigrate their point rather than debating their points is racist... unless you from the school of thinking which is racism can only be perpetrated against ethnicities by whites in which case news flash you're wrong... it's a racist term...


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh, so this is reminding garf of a similarly fucked up situation he was involved in. Explains a lot.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Directed by Polanski, coming to a cinema near you.


 They're actually showing it on a cross channel ferry.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> which infers I must be white.  when you know this ain't true... so why make the claim...
> 
> and yes it's racist... using someones colour to denigrate their point rather than debating their points is racist... unless you from the school of thinking which is racism can only be perpetrated against ethnicities by whites in which case news flash you're wrong... it's a racist term...



Like I said, your fucking analysis skills need some work.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> apparently she wanted to pursue her education at an *elite art school in Austria* that her art teacher had helped her apply for, her parents weren't happy with this and thought she should stay in the UK and concentrate on more practical studies, hence them hiring the maths teacher for extra tutoring. From there they got close to each other as he was struggling with his sexuality in a loveless marriage he felt pushed into and so they have ran off to europe, her to do art and him to do, well, men, I guess.
> 
> All lived happily ever after.


 

Josef Fritzl Academy of Fine & Creative Joinery?


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> apparently she wanted to pursue her education at an elite art school in Austria that her art teacher had helped her apply for, her parents weren't happy with this and thought she should stay in the UK and concentrate on more practical studies, hence them hiring the maths teacher for extra tutoring. From there they got close to each other as he was struggling with his sexuality in a loveless marriage he felt pushed into and so they have ran off to europe, her to do art and him to do, well, men, I guess. All lived happily ever after.


 
Oh, I didn't know any of that. Thanks.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Josef Fritzl Academy of Fine & Creative Joinery?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so you don't think that there's something wrong with the delusion that is prevalent within society that male with child = peado... nothing at all...
> 
> here's why it's a mental illness: if your first thought is sexual relations with a child when you see that then this is a serious delusion which needs medical aide... serious delusions are mental illness. ok. happy with the terminologies being used now. as seemingly that's what people what to debate the minutie of the terms not the very obvious concept behind them.


 
You're a dolt, or what you ytourself would charmingly describe as a "fucktard".
The reason that many people assume a sexual element to events like this is because that's how such stories are overwhelmingly represented to them through the media. "Mud sticks", and this mud has been thrown often enough that assuming a sexual element is normative.
That isn't a reflection of personal delusion (which is a mental *state*, not a mental illness), but of the social relations of media, and the social relations of sexual conduct.



> but hey I'm an adopted kracker now so what would I know...


 
You could be the King of Denmark, and you'd still be a dolt.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Garf - the parent's behaviour is irrelevant to your characterisation of her son as a paedophile and your attitude towards the other case


your there's a difference between a 18 year old and 13 year old and a 40 year old and a 13 year old isn't one the law draws so distinctly; legally speaking, based on the laws in Canada where she is her son is a peado.  her defence of her son is defence of a peado... you might not agree but then thank fuck 13 year old girls in Canada who are abused by communities don't need to come to you to get help...


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh, so it _is_ all about you.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Not unless you're non-white and/or look working-class or "chavvy" or scruffy. Same at St. Pancras. You have to actually *look* like a wrong'un for them to check you.


 
Well, he certainly doesn't look out of the ordinary in most of his pictures I've seen so far, but the CCTV ones of him with his arm around her make him look positively creepy.  But that may be the context.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> No more drugs or caffeine for graf, matron


 
Garf stays wired even without drugs and caffeine!


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Well, he certainly doesn't look out of the ordinary in most of his pictures I've seen so far, but the CCTV ones of him with his arm around her make him look positively creepy. But that may be the context.


I saw a CCTV picture of him walking with the girl and holding her hand.
Have to say, to me it looked like a man walking with his daughter.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Well, he certainly doesn't look out of the ordinary in most of his pictures I've seen so far, but the CCTV ones of him with his arm around her make him look positively creepy. But that may be the context.


 
tbf I wouldn't have given them two glances if I'd seen them arm in arm down the street, she doesn't exactly look very young or him particularly old, especially dressed as they are.

I've got mates in their twenties who look younger than her.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I saw a CCTV picture of him walking with the girl and holding her hand.
> Have to say, to me it looked like a man walking with his daughter.


 
No way! He didn't look nearly old enough to be her dad.

He could pass for 27 and her for 20 easy enough.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Oh, so this is reminding garf of a similarly fucked up situation he was involved in. Explains a lot.


lol nope it's reminding me what a fucked up world we're in where people assume sex between kids and adults before anything else...

just supposed for example he's taken her to sweden for an abortion because she was raped or been abused for say a reason which isn't apparent she couldn't have it done in the UK ... gonna look pretty dumb assuming sexual relations then aren't you... there's a myriad od reasons why they might have gone together, why he might be holding her hand too... all of which aren't sexual... the instant assumption that it is is what's wrong...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> It could have been worse. I could have mentioned an ancient geographical area of the Middle East if I'd wanted to really wind him up.


 
Fucking Mesopotamia, what a fucking dump that was! Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Stinking Latrines of Babylon is more like it!


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Fucking Mesopotamia, what a fucking dump that was! Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Stinking Latrines of Babylon is more like it!


You dissing Mesopotamia and the Hanging Gardens? You, you, you [sits on hands ]


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> lol nope it's reminding me what a fucked up world we're in where people assume sex between kids and adults before anything else...
> 
> just supposed for example he's taken her to sweden for an abortion because she was raped or been abused for say a reason which isn't apparent she couldn't have it done in the UK ... gonna look pretty dumb assuming sexual relations then aren't you... there's a myriad od reasons why they might have gone together, why he might be holding her hand too... all of which aren't sexual... the instant assumption that it is is what's wrong...


 
did you read his blog, listen to his song, see them holding hands in the cctv?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> tbf I wouldn't have given them two glances if I'd seen them arm in arm down the street, she doesn't exactly look very young or him particularly old, especially dressed as they are.
> 
> I've got mates in their twenties who look younger than her.


 
Oh yeah, I wasn't commenting on the age difference.  I wouldn't have glanced twice either.  I meant his demeanor.  He looked to have taken on the sex offender 'look'* in the CCTV whereas in previous pictures he just looks normal.

* You know, the look!  When the show pics of paedos in the papers, they always have _that look_.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

if i take a girl to france i'm intending on sex. why else would anyone go there


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> You're a dolt, or what you ytourself would charmingly describe as a "fucktard".
> The reason that many people assume a sexual element to events like this is because that's how such stories are overwhelmingly represented to them through the media. "Mud sticks", and this mud has been thrown often enough that assuming a sexual element is normative.
> That isn't a reflection of personal delusion (which is a mental *state*, not a mental illness), but of the social relations of media, and the social relations of sexual conduct.


 
and you're saying you don't think that this delusion which is perpetuated by the very same media isn't wrong and fucked...  or you agree it's very wrong and fucked or something else...

a collective delusion which is bought into by an entire group is a mental illness if it forces or causes behaviour to change over a prolonged period of time... if it becomes self reinforcing... the god delusion... a scientology... etc...  tell me that's not happened and I'll accept its a state which can be transcended or altered again...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Oh yeah, I wasn't commenting on the age difference. I wouldn't have glanced twice either. I meant his demeanor. He looked to have taken on the sex offender 'look'* in the CCTV whereas in previous pictures he just looks normal.
> 
> * You know, the look! When the show pics of paedos in the papers, they always have _that look_.


 
Any man caught on cctv with his arm round a woman or a child looks like a sex offender because that's the context you generally see it.
Everything that is caught on poor quality cctv or hidden cameras looks dodgy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Just for the record can everyone say whether or not this situation is worse than the rape of a 3 year old child, I mean it seems patently obvious to me that it is...
> 
> edit, that it isn't worse, jesus!


 
Dang! So very nearly hoist on your own petard there! 

And in answer to the question you *meant* to ask, IMO the physical violation of a 3-yr old is worse, because there's no question of consent (even deluded consent), even if the toddler had a "come hither" smile according to the nonce*.

*Reminds me of some research I was reading recently of the cognitive gymnastics some sex offenders against young children go through to minimise their crimes. Horrible.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> if i take a girl to france i'm intending on sex. why else would anyone go there


cheese... and horse burgers of course...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> if i take a girl to france i'm intending on sex. why else would anyone go there


 
to bury them?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Oh, so it _is_ all about you.


not at all can you answer the question rather than the ad homine attacks now perhaps?


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> lol nope it's reminding me what a fucked up world we're in where people assume sex between kids and adults before anything else...
> 
> just supposed for example he's taken her to sweden for an abortion because she was raped or been abused for say a reason which isn't apparent she couldn't have it done in the UK ... gonna look pretty dumb assuming sexual relations then aren't you... there's a myriad od reasons why they might have gone together, why he might be holding her hand too... all of which aren't sexual... the instant assumption that it is is what's wrong...


 
Oh, look at the wild speculation.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> did you read his blog, listen to his song, see them holding hands in the cctv?


his blog is rubbish his songs were written at least 2 years ago which is seemingly prior to this... cctv images don't tell us what's going on other than there's a bloke and girl holding hands next to salacious headlines from publications we know to be prize bullshit merchants at each and every turn... 

what are you the we read it in the papers so it must be true police... ffs....


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> his blog is rubbish his songs were written at least 2 years ago which is seemingly prior to this... cctv images don't tell us what's going on other than there's a bloke and girl holding hands next to salacious headlines from publications we know to be prize bullshit merchants at each and every turn...
> 
> what are you the we read it in the papers so it must be true police... ffs....


 
what about his tweet to her saying her wants to wake up next to her and kiss her collarbone?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Oh, look at the wild speculation.


yeah... I've said for like page after page if we're indulging in idle speculation isn't it odd that most are going to the darkest possible place with that no one has really given anything else a thought... that's kinda the point ... you know if you'd read the thread at all... well done for catching on... </slow hand clap>


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> and you're saying you don't think that this delusion which is perpetuated by the very same media isn't wrong and fucked... or you agree it's very wrong and fucked or something else...
> 
> a collective delusion which is bought into by an entire group is a mental illness if it forces or causes behaviour to change over a prolonged period of time... if it becomes self reinforcing... the god delusion... a scientology... etc... tell me that's not happened and I'll accept its a state which can be transcended or altered again...


 
I'm saying that it's been fed to people for so long (arguably since W.T. Stead) that it's been normalised as an "appropriate response". Is it fucked? Yes. Is it understandable within current social beliefs around sexual behaviour? Entirely.

It's still not a mental illness, though, however you try to play semantic marbles. A delusion isn't mutable, except in the subconscious of the person suffering the delusion. This normalised representation *is* mutable. It can be changed in the same way it was imposed - by altering the discourse around the idea so that such assumptions aren't the *default* assumptions in cases like this. Of course, that'd require the media to practice their arts against their own interests, so it's hardly likely.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> what about his tweet to her saying her wants to wake up next to her and kiss her collarbone?


I had a dream last night about shagging a mate of mine, does it make me unfaithful to my partner?  what if I tweet about it or stick it on their face book or my own... what then...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> what about his tweet to her saying her wants to wake up next to her and kiss her collarbone?


 
I just hope he didn't get the words "clavicle" and "clitoris" mixed up.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I had a dream last night about shagging a mate of mine, does it make me unfaithful to my partner? what if I tweet about it or stick it on their face book or my own... what then...


 
Then you need to cleanse yourself in the purifying flames of a petrol fire, you filthy friend-shagging pervert!


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Fucking hell garf, that's not the same.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I had a dream last night about shagging a mate of mine, does it make me unfaithful to my partner? what if I tweet about it or stick it on their face book or my own... what then...


 
It would be entirely reasonable for your partner to suspect you if you then went to France with your mate, yes.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> It would be entirely reasonable for your partner to suspect you if you then went to France with your mate, yes.


 
Or if you were your mates carer and your mate wasn't viewed as having the legal ability to choose as an adult.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Josef Fritzl Academy of Fine & Creative Joinery?


 
Don't knock it! The Fritzl method for making large rooms soundproof and secure is exemplary!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm saying that it's been fed to people for so long (arguably since W.T. Stead) that it's been normalised as an "appropriate response". Is it fucked? Yes. Is it understandable within current social beliefs around sexual behaviour? Entirely.
> 
> It's still not a mental illness, though, however you try to play semantic marbles. A delusion isn't mutable, except in the subconscious of the person suffering the delusion. This normalised representation *is* mutable. It can be changed in the same way it was imposed - by altering the discourse around the idea so that such assumptions aren't the *default* assumptions in cases like this. Of course, that'd require the media to practice their arts against their own interests, so it's hardly likely.


I dare say the mayans would have argued the same for child sacrifices too... 

doesn't make it more acceptable or that the normalised collective delusion isn't a maladay of the mind... and as it's the whole red peril paranoia all over again it's even harder to negate it, societally it isn't mutable.  it's an illness not a state.  

I mean look at even the reaction to my suggesting it is an issue... 

he's a nutter, 
he's off on one,
what would he know he's called a peado's mother a peado supporter
it's all about him,
he's a honkey complain about male oppression,
he's just had to many/not enough drugs/coffee/booze delete as appropriate... 

etc..

flat earthers one and all... 

look out there's a pinko about etc...


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

You'll never get that last nail in yourself.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> if i take a girl to france i'm intending on sex. why else would anyone go there


 
To get to points east, is the only decent reason I can think of.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Maybe he's got a really tricky digital watch and can't sort out the time zones and it's stuck in CET.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

he's just giving her some extra tutoring for her french oral.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

I never thought I would be Waldorf to your Stadtler


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 27, 2012)

Won't somebody please think of the childr...

Never mind.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

If he get's sent down and put in the sex offenders wing do you think the paedos will tease him about his girlfriend being practically legal and having tits?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> if i take a girl to france i'm intending on sex. why else would anyone go there


Skiing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I dare say the mayans would have argued the same for child sacrifices too...
> 
> doesn't make it more acceptable or that the normalised collective delusion isn't a maladay of the mind... and as it's the whole red peril paranoia all over again it's even harder to negate it, societally it isn't mutable. it's an illness not a state.
> 
> ...


 
But garf, half of those reactions are accurate (nos. 1, 2 and 6)!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> You'll never get that last nail in yourself.


 
That's okay. His friend who he dream-shagged is coming round to drive the last one in.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh no, not the politics forum


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> But garf, half of those reactions are accurate (nos. 1, 2 and 6)!


so there's no point in challenging the orthodoxy then you're saying...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Oh no, not the politics forum


 
Yusss!

Lube up bitches!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh, fuck's sake, not fucking P&P a-fucking-gain.

Because it was struggling so hard in general. ffs.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Oh, fuck's sake, not fucking P&P a-fucking-gain.
> 
> Because it was struggling so hard in general. ffs.


 
best forums on here, this thread should be honoured to be elevated from the swamp of general.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> best forums on here, this thread should be honoured to be elevated from the swamp of general.


anyone want to explain why it does keep bobbing between the two is a mod playing silly buggers without bothering to mention why they keep moving it... seriously...


----------



## laptop (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I just hope he didn't get the words "clavicle" and "clitoris" mixed up.


 




?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

laptop said:


> ?


 
Leave the clavichord alone!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so there's no point in challenging the orthodoxy then you're saying...


 
No, I've very obviously said that challenging the orthodoxy is possible, but will be a long, hard job.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 27, 2012)

laptop said:


> ?







More like (but not as cute)


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

The top clavichord is so cute, I could kiss it.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> if i take a girl to france i'm intending on sex. why else would anyone go there


----------



## kabbes (Sep 27, 2012)

To be fair, you may also want to go to France for, e.g.






(Note no visible French people.)


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Leave the clavichord alone!


 
see i knew it was a bloody musical instrument.

also, fuck france.  it's about as romantic as a fish supper in a bus stop.  amateur.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> see i knew it was a bloody musical instrument.
> 
> also, fuck france. it's about as romantic as a fish supper in a bus stop. amateur.


much easier to take her to Venice and dump the body in the sewer tbf... or sink a house like in james bond and no one would know...


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Sep 27, 2012)

Arrest warrant issued: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19740811


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Arrest warrant issued: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19740811


 
TO ECUADOR!


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I think he has lost relation to reality. He should know that he is in a position of responsibility for this girl, especially on the school trip. He should have known that, especially teacher student, relationships are out of bounds, even excusing that she is only 15 - but it seems he did not. I think he is basically stupid or soft in the head. Certainly what he has already done will cost him his career, his marriage and most likely his freedom. I would certainly call that stupid.


 
All of the above, makes me very afraid that this immature ' man ', might decide that there is no future for either of them.


----------



## twistedAM (Sep 27, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> All of the above, makes me very afraid that this immature ' man ', might decide that there is no future for either of them.


 
Thought had crossed my mind too - especially if you look at his record collection.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Arrest warrant issued: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19740811


on what grounds... technically he hasn't fled or evaded capture due to imminent arrest though I'd like to see them explain how an imminently arrestable figure was allowed to go to the USA in February, or continue to teach children last week if they believed him to be such a threat ... sure he's left the UK and isn't arrestable here but that's specifically not what the Euro arrest warrant can be used for to restrict the freedom of movement across europe... 

seemingly the legislation regarding euro warrants doesn't apply if the 'crime' may be inferred but not proven to be of sexual in nature... then extraordinary rendition (which is what it is without a legal warrant) is perfectly ok...  can see this loop hole being used more and more to justify the kidnap of people from other countries where they have committed no crime...


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

I was of the impression that a prima facie case had to be made out, in order to secure a EAW.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> TO ECUADOR!


 
well yes... but he's not in any fear of being extradited to the states is he...

but the same thing applies euro arest warrants can't be used if they are wanted for questioning... both sweden and now it appears the UK are prepared to break the agreed convention on how these would operate in order to make it work for their benefit... 

this is bad news for them as a legal method of interrelational co-operation within the EU but also undermines significantly the value of EU legislation in both countries, rendering it to the side lines (something which the tories are very much in favour of) and in effect rendering a significant number of protectionist legislation at risk... 

playing fast and lose with the EU legislation system has consequences... 

but hey red peril right...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> I was of the impression that a prima facie case had to be made out, in order to secure a EAW.


and that they had evaded arrest or were evading imminent arrest... they haven't done this so can't issue one... he's not been charged or arrested and likely to be charged at this time (he very well might be afterwards) so again it's a misuse... as it was in assanges case...



> An EAW can only be issued for the purposes of conducting *a criminal prosecution (not merely an investigation), or enforcing a custodial sentence.* It can only be issued for offences carrying a maximum penalty of 12 months or more. Where sentence has already been passed an EAW can only be issued if the prison term to be enforced is at least four months long.


 
sadly both are such potentially despicable acts that most people think no smoke without fire and haven't bothered challenging, but the knock on's of using them in this manner are appalling, both in this case and Assanges regardless of the specifics of the case...

it in effect means these can now be used by any member state to extract anyone they chose at any time and hold them without charge in any european union country... patriot act euro via the back door...


nb assanges case has obviously been challenged legally, however in spite of the ruling being made about not the legitimacy of the use of the illegal warrant but about other matters not entered into debate within the court case.   Regardless of this the public perception is still it's ok to deport him so legality and social convention being miles apart it remains unchallenged in this context... of course it'd be obivous to most what I'm saying but apparently it needs to be specifically spell out every fucking time in some tedious fashion...


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Not unless you're non-white and/or look working-class or "chavvy" or scruffy. Same at St. Pancras. You have to actually *look* like a wrong'un for them to check you.


 
But... but... I've been checked. 

In my case I am actually the parent, and they wanted to confirm I had the father's permission to take my child abroad (I explained that she doesn't actually have one). It's only happened the once though, so odds are they wouldn't have checked these two and if they did then all it would have take is him forging a permission slip.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> But... but... I've been checked.
> 
> In my case I am actually the parent, and they wanted to confirm I had the father's permission to take my child abroad (I explained that she doesn't actually have one). It's only happened the once though, so odds are they wouldn't have checked these two and if they did then all it would have take is him forging a permission slip.


did you need to prove you were her mum or that her 'dad' didn't really exist... or did they take you at your word...


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Quite likely. That's not a justification for his behaviour, though. Shit, it's not even an excuse. He's done his PGCE, he'll have had to pass the ethics module, so his emotional age is irrelevant to the fact that he will be fully aware that what he's done is ethically wrong, that it transgresses not just professional boundaries, but legality too.
> As for the twat's lyrics, self-indulgent twaddle isn't in it!


Maybe not - in the deregulated GoveWorld there are plenty of people teaching without teaching quals, not all PGCEs include an ethics module anymore.  Having said that qualified or unqualified, ethics module or none -  you would have to be a moron not to understand the wrongness.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 27, 2012)

> In another case, a retired Church of England priest suspended from the Church following a Criminal Records Bureau check was allowed to remain as a governor, despite the school being aware of child sex allegations against him. Canon Gordon Rideout, 73, was a governor at the school until November last year.
> He has been charged with 38 offences over an 11-year period between 1962 and 1973 and is due to stand trial at Lewes Crown Court on 19 October.


Seriously think this school has a number of questions to answer here.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

the main one being 'whycome you keep hiring sex cases'


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 27, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Seriously think this school has a number of questions to answer here.


It does seem so. My (perhaps naive) question would be why do they have such an apparent problem with it  I mean, even if they do have slack vetting procedures is that not just a _tad_ unlucky, or are other schools turning away unsuitables all the time?


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> did you need to prove you were her mum or that her 'dad' didn't really exist... or did they take you at your word...


 
They kindajust had to take me at myword, and my daughter's. They said that next time I should bring a copy of her birth certificate with the father's name blank - which I already knew, just not in time to actually get one. Other parents get a notarised letter from the parent who's not holidaying. Theoretically the immigration officers could also phone, say, her school or doctor or something for confirmation.

It's annoying, but in this case it actually would have stopped this teacher taking the girl away if they'd double-checked any forged permission slip, which would have been reasonable because when does just one kid ever go away with just one teacher?


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

10 pages for me to read..... do I do a JC2?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> They kindajust had to take me at myword, and my daughter's. They said that next time I should bring a copy of her birth certificate with the father's name blank - which I already knew, just not in time to actually get one. Other parents get a notarised letter from the parent who's not holidaying. Theoretically the immigration officers could also phone, say, her school or doctor or something for confirmation.
> 
> It's annoying, but in this case it actually would have stopped this teacher taking the girl away if they'd double-checked any forged permission slip, which would have been reasonable because when does just one kid ever go away with just one teacher?


but her going away with her step father wouldn't be unheard of for example... it's kinda my point even if they asked you as a legitimate mum they are generally can we be arsed we've asked the question they've given us a response which isn't the usual don't you know who I am or fuck off or yes but of course but something which is going to be hard to check we've got to do this for another 6 hours in the rain etc... bugger it... 

then it's unlikely they'll catch them out particlarlly if they have been rehershing in the car what to say if stopped like a couple of colditz escapees which presumably as they went together rather than this being a kidnap etc then they had planned how to get around...

I went to france as a foot passenger as a 14 year old a few years ago mind but didn't have any parents with me.  I went to the truckers lounge and got a lift off the ferry with a lorry driver so didn't need to leave the boat on foot although I got on it in that manner all legit but again the assumption is she's in the car on the ferry going in she might not have been the cctv was from the ferry leaving the port...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> 10 pages for me to read..... do I do a JC2?


3 these days...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Thought had crossed my mind too - especially if you look at his record collection.


 
if you looked at loads of teenagers record collections (mp3 actually grandad) you could think the same, but the themes of death, pain, suicide and tragic love are just stylised tropes.

he's an overgrown teenage emo in love with the idea of being in a tragic love affair most likely as a response to other problems in his life, maybe regretting getting married etc.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> You should post on the "shaving snobbery" thread in knobbing and sobbing.


 
I didn't know there was such a thread but for the first time in my life I look forward to shaving my bumfluff


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> 10 pages for me to read..... do I do a JC2?



Misunderstanding, some frothy garf, facepalms a plenty and speculation abound. Nah.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> if you looked at loads of teenagers record collections (mp3 actually grandad) you could think the same, but the themes of death, pain, suicide and tragic love are just stylised tropes.
> 
> he's an overgrown teenage emo in love with the idea of being in a tragic love affair most likely as a response to other problems in his life, maybe regretting getting married etc.


or hitting 30 and his tiny mind can't deal with maybe getting on a bit...


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> or hitting 30 and his tiny mind can't deal with maybe getting on a bit...


 
nah I've been there, you just get a septum piercing and go to art openings for free wine and the hope of shagging art school grads.

though apparently having a beard and a septum piercing makes you look like a mini bear.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> nah I've been there, you just get a septum piercing and go to art openings for free wine and the hope of shagging art school grads.
> 
> though apparently having a beard and a septum piercing makes you look like a mini bear.


or in tp's eyes a hamster... (go on I dare you ask her about hamsters and miniature bears, I double dare you ...   obliviously stand well back... )

that's what you did consistently your issue on here is you cannot overcome what others do when you compare the actions with yourself... not everyone behaves like that I've seen amazing amounts of fuckry for all kinds of otherwise reasonable people at that point...


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> that's what you did consistently your issue on here is you cannot overcome what others do when you compare the actions with yourself... not everyone behaves like that I've seen amazing amounts of fuckry for all kinds of otherwise reasonable people at that point...


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I just hope he didn't get the words "clavicle" and "clitoris" mixed up.


 
I had to consult a book to find where either were


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

My coffee has gone gold catching up in this.

No longer consider cesare to be one of my good friends - the racist, misandric bint


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Misunderstanding, some frothy garf, facepalms a plenty and speculation abound. Nah.


 
Yeh, was more people shaking their heads and laughing at - than flaming pitching forks and nooses.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2012)

You lost your liver, we lost our collective bile duct.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> My coffee has gone gold catching up in this.
> 
> No longer consider cesare to be one of my good friends - the racist, misandric bint


tbf the way you treat your 'good friends' and your enemies is little different...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Balbi said:


> You lost your liver, we lost our collective bile duct.


sadly... this place used to be more fun... less pebble mill...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 27, 2012)

Forrest's dad has made an impassioned plea to the hussy Stammers: "just bring my little boy back home safely".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19749216


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

Cesare is like Meursault, only there's no beach, gun, or anything else for that matter.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> 10 pages for me to read..... do I do a JC2?


 
I wouldn't bother TBH, I've just skimmed it and it has basically been totally buggered up by daft Garf's bizarre ramblings, scorlling past his posts is the only sane thing to do, it certainly reduces the noise level massively. 

It's midly amusing reading the endless replies from sane posters basically pointing out to him what a twat he is and telling him to do one, but frankly they are wasting their time, because he's too bloody stupid to take any notice.

At least Bint-gate was funny, but that was his high point, it's been downhill since, and he's hit rock bottom on this thread.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> At least Bint-gate was funny, but that was his high point, it's been downhill since, and he's hit rock bottom on this thread.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I had a dream last night about shagging a mate of mine, does it make me unfaithful to my partner? what if I tweet about it or stick it on their face book or my own... what then...


 
Who took the receptive role and who took the insertive role? What positions did you both adopt? (wheelbarrow's my guess). What noises did you both make?

And was there white wee wee on the sheets when you woke up?


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> They kindajust had to take me at myword, and my daughter's. They said that next time I should bring a copy of her birth certificate with the father's name blank - which I already knew, just not in time to actually get one. Other parents get a notarised letter from the parent who's not holidaying. Theoretically the immigration officers could also phone, say, her school or doctor or something for confirmation.


Plenty of opportunities for the other parent to be a complete arsewipe about this tho... what if you simply can't get any contact from them at all?
I bet they wouldn't check a step family so much as a lone parent...?


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

God, those CCTV pictures in the article above are not at all flattering to the teacher - he looks like a stereotypical paedo in them. He is not going to do well in prison at all.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> God, those CCTV pictures in the article above are not at all flattering to the teacher - he looks like a stereotypical paedo in them. He is not going to do well in prison at all.


 
Everyone looks sinister in CCTV pictures.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Cesare is like Meursault, only there's no beach, gun, or anything else for that matter.


I might "like" that, if I knew what you were getting at


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Everyone looks sinister in CCTV pictures.


I think he looks like that bloke from Corrie, with the glasses. The supermarket one.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Everyone looks sinister in CCTV pictures.


 
The girl doesn't.

They're also walking along hand in hand. But yeah, anyone who thinks they're probably having sex must be mentally ill.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> I think he looks like that bloke from Corrie, with the glasses. The supermarket one.


Aye one of the photos is extremely unflattering and makes him look like Curly Watts (the prototypical Man City fan).


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> The girl doesn't.
> 
> They're also walking along hand in hand. But yeah, anyone who thinks they're probably having sex must be mentally ill.


 
Sorry I should have said all men look sinister, all women look like they are waiting to be brutally murdered.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> I might "like" that, if I knew what you were getting at


 
Ask Button, you'll kick yourself


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Aye one of the photos is extremely unflattering and makes him look like Curly Watts (the prototypical Man City fan).


Curly Watts! That's the one.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> I think he looks like that bloke from Corrie, with the glasses. The supermarket one.


 
Curly Watts or him who had the water bed that burst, Percy?


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Ask Button, you'll kick yourself


I shall enquire forthwith.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

He might shoot her cause the thermostat was too high though.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Aye one of the photos is extremely unflattering and makes him look like Curly Watts (the prototypical Man City fan).


 
Fuck you, baby owl!


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> God, those CCTV pictures in the article above are not at all flattering to the teacher - he looks like a stereotypical paedo in them. He is not going to do well in prison at all.


This is exactly what I meant earlier. And the curly watts comparison is spot on


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> and that they had evaded arrest or were evading imminent arrest... they haven't done this so can't issue one... he's not been charged or arrested and likely to be charged at this time (he very well might be afterwards) so again it's a misuse... as it was in assanges case...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Interesting Garf, I didn't know the requirements for the issue of a European Arrest Warrant.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2012)

I hear that his parents have now made a TV appeal. I don't really see the point, I doubt the French are streaming these on their TV and even if they were how likely is it that the two of them are watching TV over there, if they are still in France even.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Fuck you, baby owl!


 
Didn't know you were a shitty fan?


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

I am a poof, I don't like football. I Was more annoyed you remember Curly Watts.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

Any chance of a link/search term for bint-gate? Cheers


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Ask Button, you'll kick yourself


I took him a few minutes to be fair


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 27, 2012)

In the original picture he looks rather like 'controversial businessman' Aaron Coghlan


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> I took him a few minutes to be fair


 
It was rather vague, tenuous and obscure - I nearly edited it but I thought the obscurity was quite apt which made it quite apt


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

Chip Barm said:


> In the original picture he looks rather like 'controversial businessman' Aaron Coghlan


 
Given his recent transformation from business man to Curly-alike, I think a few more weeks could have him looking like this:


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> It was rather vague, tenuous and obscure - I nearly edited it but I thought the obscurity was quite apt which made it quite apt


You only picked it cos you liked the idea of me actually doing it, rather than the meaning of it - admit it!


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Interesting Garf, I didn't know the requirements for the issue of a European Arrest Warrant.


 
It's not, he's talking bollocks.

A European Arrest Warrant can not be issued merely for investigation purposes, but it can be issued for the purpose of a criminal prosecution, in this case the warrant has been issued on the basis of the offence of child abduction, as in taking the girl without the consent of her parents - all the facts of the matter suggests there's no doubt that he has indeed done that, no further investigation is really required in respect of child abduction, they are ready to charge him for that offence, and he will face a criminal prosecution in respect of that offence.

The Crown Prosecution Service, as the judicial authority in the UK, has been involved in the issuing of the warrant and they have clearly decided that a prima facie case has been made in respect of the offence for which the warrant has been issued, which is therefore in line with the rules and purposes of the European Arrest Warrant scheme.

There will, of course, still be further investigations into other possible offences, but that doesn't make any different to the offence for which the warrant has been issued, and it makes fuck all different that he hasn't been charged for that specfic offence at this point, as that would be impossible due to the fact that he's on the run.

It's for reasons like this that the CPS don't employ Garf as a lawyer.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

@ Fez :

I could not possible comment, cesare


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

Posting in the bath isnt easyt


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> It's not, he's talking bollocks.
> 
> A European Arrest Warrant can not be issued merely for investigation purposes, but it can be issued for the purpose of a criminal prosecution, in this case the warrant has been issued on the basis of the offence of child abduction, as in taking the girl without the consent of her parents - all the facts of the matter suggests there's no doubt that he has indeed done that, no further investigation is really required in respect of child abduction, they are ready to charge him for that offence, and he will face a criminal prosecution in respect of that offence.
> 
> ...


Aye,  but Garf's main point was the unfairness of the EAW system was it not? (Although he did weave in the UK/US extradition exemption, thus tying it to the bloody Assange fiasco).


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Any chance of a link/search term for bint-gate? Cheers


 
Try here - Daft bints try to open plane door for fresh air mid flight. - I think it took off from page 10, post 279, when the race card was played over the term 'bints', adding another 19 pages to the thread.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Sorry I should have said all men look sinister, all women look like they are waiting to be brutally murdered.


 
Perhaps you should stop watching cctv footage of brutal murders.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> Perhaps you should stop watching cctv footage of brutal murders.


 
I think I'm pretty normal in that I generally only see CCTV footage when it's to do with someone committing a terrible crime, these rarely involve women unless they are the victim.

This is why things on CCTV always look sinister.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> Aye, but Garf's main point was the unfairness of the EAW system was it not? (Although he did weave in the UK/US extradition exemption, thus tying it to the bloody Assange fiasco).


 
TBH I've no idea what point he was trying to make, but he certainly seemed to be suggesting that there was no basis for the issuing of this warrant, which clearly there is.

The teacher has clearly committed the offence for which the warrant has been issued for, so there's no 'unfairness' in this case, whatever else is going on in Garf's mind I am really not interested in, I just can't be arsed to work that out from the gibberish he's been posting, life is just too short TBH.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> Perhaps you should stop watching cctv footage of brutal murders.


 
I really like those CCTV videos of people doing their shopping in ASDA. Is he going to pick up the brown rice or the basmati? Oh it's so exciting!


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> TBH I've no idea what point he was trying to make, but he certainly seemed to be suggesting that there was no basis for the issuing of this warrant, which clearly there is.
> 
> The teacher has clearly committed the offence for which the warrant has been issued for, so there's no 'unfairness' in this case, whatever else is going on in Garf's mind I am really not interested in, I just can't be arsed to work that out from the gibberish he's been posting, life is just too short TBH.


Well, there's clearly a prima facie case + he's flown, at any rate.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

. 

wrong thread.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

cesare said:


> Well, there's clearly a prima facie case + he's flown, at any rate.


 
And that is all that's required.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Sorry I should have said all men look sinister, all women look like they are waiting to be brutally murdered.


 
You have a point. Unless the woman is over 40, in which case she always looks like a crazy cat lady.

Curly Watts is spot on. And although I have known teachers who had teenage students go ga-ga for them, none of them looked like Curly Watts - the teachers at least.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I hear that his parents have now made a TV appeal. I don't really see the point, I doubt the French are streaming these on their TV and even if they were how likely is it that the two of them are watching TV over there, if they are still in France even.


 
Ever heard of smartphones? Bet the teenager at least is googling her name any chance she gets.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> Ever heard of smartphones? Bet the teenager at least is googling her name any chance she gets.


With roaming charges? One thing I know about teenagers is they've never got enough credit.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> With roaming charges? One thing I know about teenagers is they've never got enough credit.


 
Is that what your girlfriend tells you when you complain she never calls you?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

maybe Humbert Humbert provides


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> With roaming charges? One thing I know about teenagers is they've never got enough credit.


 
True. But they definitely won't need access to French TV to see this report - just access to the internet.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 27, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Try here - Daft bints try to open plane door for fresh air mid flight. - I think it took off from page 10, post 279, when the race card was played over the term 'bints', adding another 19 pages to the thread.


 
Ah, I remember that thread being around, but didn't bother to read it.  If it's still being referenced years later then I might have to wade through it.  Cheers!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 27, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> With roaming charges? One thing I know about teenagers is they've never got enough credit.


Police had her phone before they left. His, too. They would've had to be carrying enough cash to make buying a PAYG smartphone & roaming credit a viable priority, over & above on-the-run living costs.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 27, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Police had her phone before they left. His, too.


...for evidence, presumably, which must mean this was already being investigated as a possible crime....


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Is that what your girlfriend tells you when you complain she never calls you?


wtf is that meant to mean?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> wtf is that meant to mean?


 
a joke jesus h, don't shit yourself.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> Ever heard of smartphones? Bet the teenager at least is googling her name any chance she gets.


 

If she uses her phone they'll be able to locate her. If either of them have any common sense they'd have thrown their phones over board. But Yes, she is bound to be aware that the pair of them are in the papers.

(edit: just read they left the phones at home)


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 27, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> ...for evidence, presumably, which must mean this was already being investigated as a possible crime....


Yes. He was, apparently, likely to be suspended in the next week or two. Can't remember where I read that, mind!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> If she uses her phone they'll be able to locate her. If either of them have any common sense they'd have thrown their phones over board. But Yes, she is bound to be aware that the pair of them are in the papers.
> 
> (edit: just read they left the phones at home)


 

you can buy burners


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> you can buy burners


 
We all know that Snoop.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> you can buy burners


 
You've been watching too much US TV.

I think you mean PAYG phones.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

scifisam said:


> You've been watching too much US TV.
> 
> I think you mean PAYG phones.


 
Download shazaam, whack it in on your phone and you'll know what that tune is outside. HTH HAND!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> maybe Humbert Humbert provides


 
Yeah, but what about phone credit?


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

Lolita is actually incredibly well written prose.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Download shazaam, whack it in on your phone and you'll know what that tune is outside. HTH HAND!


 
I totally should.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 27, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Forrest's dad has made an impassioned plea to the hussy Stammers: "just bring my little boy back home safely".
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19749216


 What's worse is they'll get Jack Whitehall to play him when Hollywood buy up the rights.  Cruel and unusual, cruel and unusual..


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Lolita is actually incredibly well written prose.


 
and totally hot.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

I've only seen the film but like to drop references like I've actually read the nonce manual


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> ...for evidence, presumably, which must mean this was already being investigated as a possible crime....





mrs quoad said:


> Yes. He was, apparently, likely to be suspended in the next week or two. Can't remember where I read that, mind!


 
I've read a couple of reports that have said something like 'it has been claimed' that the police had seized the girl's phone as part of their investigation into the relationship and had urged the school to suspend the teacher.

Note the word 'claimed', in the same reports the police refused to comment if they had been investigating anything before the disappearance.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 27, 2012)

The French police really don't give a fuck about this do they, I bet they're all at it with their teachers over there, probably while sucking melancholily on a fag staring at the ceiling with dead eyes or something.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

IC3D said:


> The French police really don't give a fuck about this do they, I bet they're all at it with their teachers over there, probably while sucking melancholily on a fag staring at the ceiling with dead eyes or something.


 
They are most certainly laughing at prudish roast beef, probably whilst fingering their sisters in the bath.


----------



## trashpony (Sep 27, 2012)

The French police aren't covering themselves in glory of late are they? A family being executed and then this.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> They are most certainly laughing at prudish roast beef, probably whilst fingering their sisters in the bath.


Bath! I think the proliferation of the bidet says a lot about their prioritie, the filthy bastards.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

trashpony said:


> The French police aren't covering themselves in glory of late are they? A family being executed and then this.


 
Glory is too try hard, they are more interested in looking cool and nonchalant and I for one salute them for it.


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I've only seen the film but like to drop references like I've actually read the nonce manual


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

trashpony said:


> The French police aren't covering themselves in glory of late are they? A family being executed and then this.


 

Look, the gendarmes don't have time to investigate grand underage romance or dodgy hit jobs.They're busy cracking heads in the banlieues


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> and totally hot.


 
Don't give the resident idiot any more blank ammo to shoot at you!


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 27, 2012)

trashpony said:


> The French police aren't covering themselves in glory of late are they? A family being executed and then this.


 
It started when they failed to link Dianne's death to the British establishment.

*joke & runs*


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I've only seen the film but like to drop references like I've actually read the nonce manual


 



Not a nonce, but a creature of infinite melancholy, with a bubble of hot poison in the loins.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no doubt...
> 
> *but to assume sexual activity prior to this being prove is a mental illness... *
> 
> ...


No, to assume sexual activity is jumping to conclusions, but it is not 'proof of mental illness', and saying this is just plain wrong.

It may be media over-reaction or hysteria, but it is most certainly not mental illness.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> They would've had to be carrying enough cash to make buying a PAYG smartphone & roaming credit a viable priority, over & above on-the-run living costs.


 
Or just used a net cafe for a Euro.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Not a nonce, but a creature of infinite melancholy, with a bubble of hot poison in the loins.


 
A nonce but a gentleman nonce, he really believed he loved her. The type of nonce you could hold the gaze of before shooting him in the head.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> They are most certainly laughing at prudish roast beef, probably whilst fingering their sisters in the bath.


 
Do you need to be so nasty? In all senses of the word.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> Do you need to be so nasty? In all senses of the word.


 
oh it's the liberal lefts own Mary Whitehouse.

fuck off.

p.s. it was also a reference to the french film The Dreamers.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> oh it's the liberal lefts own Mary Whitehouse.
> 
> fuck off.


 
Fuck off youself, nasty piece of work.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> hold the gaze of before shooting him in the head.


 
I like that, I may nick that and declare it my own.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> Fuck off youself, nasty piece of work.


 
yes, how dare I make a joke about the french and their apparently lax attitude to sexual relations.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> Do you need to be so nasty? In all senses of the word.


 
You gotta admit the French do like a bit of le hanky la panky.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> yes, how dare I make a joke about the french and their apparently lax attitude to sexual relations.


_But, but but, I was only joking...._


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> _But, but but, I was only joking...._


 
Why would I need to plead like that, when it was quite obvious the comment was intended for comic effect, well unless you have a motive for choosing to interpret it seriously or just love being offended.


----------



## discokermit (Sep 27, 2012)

lolita is a good example in this case. how a nonce convinces himself it's about love to justify his noncery.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Why would I need to plead like that, when it was quite obvious the comment was intended for comic effect, well unless you have a motive for choosing to interpret it seriously or just love being offended.


 
_It's not me it's you...._

Yet...people calling you a nonce isn't okay...even for comic effect...funny that.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> _It's not me it's you...._
> 
> Yet...people calling you a nounce isn't okay...even for comic effect...funny that.


 
Nah this really is all about you, since my comment in question was aimed at no one in particular, rather was just an admittedly shit joke playing on stereotypes about the french, french cinema and their lax sexual morals.

And if you were better at reading than axe grinding you'd know that my point was I had no problem with firky, dotty and madusa jokingly calling me a nonce (what's a nounce, someone who fucks underdeveloped ideas) but was taking issue with dicks like garfieldlechat seeking to use such jokes to actually make out I was a nonce.

Now fuck off.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Now fuck off.


 
After you.


----------



## bluestreak (Sep 27, 2012)

just call him a nonce, it's ok, everyone else is doing it.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> After you.


 
shit before the shovel.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 27, 2012)

revol68 said:


> (what's a nounce, someone who fucks underdeveloped ideas)


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2012)

bluestreak said:


> just call him a nonce, it's ok, everyone else is doing it.


 

urbans been having one of its, not infrequent but perhaps not seen for a good year or two, intense nonce obsessed few days. Personally I don't see my day as complete unless _someone has been consigned to the register._


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2012)

What was this thread about again?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 27, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> What was this thread about again?


nuance


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2012)

IC3D said:


> nuance


 
That's nonsensical.


----------



## bluestreak (Sep 27, 2012)

*points finger*


----------



## IC3D (Sep 27, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> That's nonsensical.


Everyone here knows you're a paedant though.


----------



## Firky (Sep 27, 2012)

Just saw both their parents on the news, feel sorry for both of them.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Everyone here knows you're a paedant though.


 
Only because you spell your favourite swimming attire incorrectly (spaedos)


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2012)

Does he have a big nose? Apparently that's one way to spot 'em:
http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/c...nshend-tells-of-child-porn-probe-8189061.html
(last line)


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 28, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> That's nonsensical.


 
Noncense.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Does he have a big nose? Apparently that's one way to spot 'em:
> http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/c...nshend-tells-of-child-porn-probe-8189061.html
> (last line)



Aye, Pete, people think you're a nuance because you have a nose you could split logs with. Nowt to do with a police investigation.


----------



## pogofish (Sep 28, 2012)

Just reported on BBC that she's been found in France.  No report on him.


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2012)

pogofish said:


> Just reported on BBC that she's been found in France. No report on him.


 
According to sky:

In a statement, police said: "They were found today (Friday 28 September) at 12.15pm UK time. Mr Forrest has been arrested and Megan has been taken into protection."


----------



## BoxRoom (Sep 28, 2012)

They've got him also apparently. Can he be tried for his crimes against music while they're at it?


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Sep 28, 2012)

> The information which led to them being located came as a direct result of media coverage in France.




Who was saying it wasn't being shown in France?


----------



## Balbi (Sep 28, 2012)

Let's see what happens then.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 28, 2012)

What a crazy situation.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Let's see what happens then.


3 weeks for her with max clifford and then the sob sotry about how she was under his spell, he'll claim she initiated it or he was having a mental break down ater the collaspe of his marrage or try and blame his wife for not having or having too much sex.... and be sent down for 5 to 10 I'd imagine...


----------



## Balbi (Sep 28, 2012)

Might as well not bother following it then, thanks for that Garf.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 28, 2012)

According to World at One a special force was used to find them using an advanced computer system. They started work on Tuesday with the issuing of the arrest warrant.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2012)

It's not called Skynet, is it...?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 28, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> It's not called Skynet, is it...?


It could be when translated into French.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2012)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 28, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


>


 

I have missed this!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2012)

It is rather charming, isn't it


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 28, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> It is rather charming, isn't it


 
I used to post it a lot, still makes me laugh like a kid. Charming, yes that's the word.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 28, 2012)

.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 28, 2012)

The british have been calling there military communications sat skynet since 1970.
 We now have 4 skynet 5 sats in orbit


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Might as well not bother following it then, thanks for that Garf.


they'll all be invited to educate you at your pleasure wtf you expect to happen... he'll get a recording contract and she'll get a part in a soap and we'll see it's all an advert for a new story line in fucking hollyoaks... reallly... some people...


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2012)

likesfish said:


> The british have been calling there military communications sat skynet since 1970.
> We now have 4 skynet 5 sats in orbit


 

theres also a registered company out there called cyberdyne


----------



## Balbi (Sep 28, 2012)

Sort of missing the whole 'let's see what happens' element of it there garf. While they were missing, speculation abounds. Now she's safe and he's gendarmed up to the nines, we can afford the luxury of patience.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 28, 2012)

Worryingly cyberdyne in japan are building robot exoskeletons no way could a joint venture with the Uk Mod end anyway but very very badly !!!!!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Sort of missing the whole 'let's see what happens' element of it there garf. While they were missing, speculation abounds. Now she's safe and he's gendarmed up to the nines, we can afford the luxury of patience.


what are you saying there will be no idle specutaltion on urban?

who are you and what have you done with bablebe, bably, balbye... BALLBOY ...fucking stupid user name...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> they'll all be invited to educate you at your pleasure wtf you expect to happen... he'll get a recording contract and she'll get a part in a soap and we'll see it's all an advert for a new story line in fucking hollyoaks... reallly... some people...


Anyone taking bets they're the new BT couple, and this was all about their connectivity abroad?


----------



## Balbi (Sep 28, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> what are you saying there will be no idle specutaltion on urban?
> 
> who are you and what have you done with bablebe, bably, balbye... BALLBOY ...fucking stupid user name...



Still cappuccino frothy then garf?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 28, 2012)

likesfish said:


> The british have been calling there military communications sat skynet since 1970.
> We now have 4 skynet 5 sats in orbit


We use a parcel delivery company called Skynet, always amuses me when their van pulls up out side the office.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

So she is fine then


----------



## The Octagon (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> So she is fine then


 
Dude, she's 15.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 28, 2012)

So can we now say he was smashing her whilst in france


Or is that notion is a sign of mental illness


----------



## mrsfran (Sep 28, 2012)

It turns out they'd only gone to Lakeside to buy an iPhone 5s and were navigating home.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> Dude, she's 15.


 
Dude?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Anyone taking bets they're the new BT couple, and this was all about their connectivity abroad?


though clearly they didn't get a great reception... boomtish...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2012)

Here all week, try the beef...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Balbi said:


> Still cappuccino frothy then garf?


still got a stoopid user name... bobbles... 

gwan say it a few more times see if it becomes any more true...


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

She's been found and is on the way back

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19756698


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Here all week, try the beef...


wonders if reception was actually the class he was aiming at...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> She's been found and is on the way back


god... had you not said we'd never have known thank fuck for your broadband connection eh...


----------



## The Octagon (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Dude?


 
I like the word Dude, and it fit with my humourous interpretation of 'fine' in your post.

It was funnier in my head, but still.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> I like the word Dude, and it fit with my humourous interpretation of 'fine' in your post.
> 
> It was funnier in my head, but still.


i thikn he was responding in kind like as in dude? dude!  dude?? rather than question the use of it...


----------



## The Octagon (Sep 28, 2012)

Ah shit, we nearly had a moment


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> It was funnier in my head, but still.


 
I had to be there


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> Ah shit, we nearly had a moment


dude


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 28, 2012)

If it turns that they did sleep together, will a great deal of mental illness have been instantly cured? This might be a good thing surely?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## weltweit (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> She's been found and is on the way back
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19756698


Good news, hope she is ok...


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

Has his wife said she is standing by him yet?


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Has his wife said she is standing by him yet?


 
He's a politician?


----------



## girasol (Sep 28, 2012)

Looks like a not such a bad ending to this...   They were found walking around holding hands...



> Relieved Megan's natural father says 'I'm not angry at all, we all do silly thing when we are young'


----------



## weltweit (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Has his wife said she is standing by him yet?


Do you expect her to?


----------



## laptop (Sep 28, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Do you expect her to?


 

Most likely not, him not being a Tory Minister.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 28, 2012)

*Jake Wallis Simons* ‏@*JakeWSimons*
30yr old maths teacher takes 15yr old student 100 miles to France at an average speed of 35mph. How many years will he spend in prison?
 Retweeted by *Mark Gatiss*
*Expand* 

 *Reply* 
 *Retweet* 
 *Favorite*


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 28, 2012)

Will she testify against him?

Will he be able to get a fair trial?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Will she testify against him?
> 
> Will he be able to get a fair trial?


 
Unlikely I would guess....


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 28, 2012)

Better let him off just in case.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 28, 2012)

Strike him off and a suspended sentence, really see no point in prison in this case. 

oh and her da gets a free dig.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2012)

Why does the old man get a free punch?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

I expect her to have a book out in time for Christmas 2013


----------



## revol68 (Sep 28, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Why does the old man get a free punch?



Cos he should have paid him three sheep before running off with hos daughter, proper Irish tradition.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Cos he should have paid him three sheep before running off with *hos daughter*, proper Irish tradition.


 

sigmund notes your misogyny


----------



## revol68 (Sep 28, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> sigmund notes your misogyny



Can it come with a qualifying comment that im typing on a phone.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 28, 2012)

Thank God the girl is OK. ( Well, physically anyway. ). I had a real dread of how this was going to end up.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Thank God the girl is OK. ( Well, physically anyway. ). I had a real dread of how this was going to end up.


 
What has God got to do with it?


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> What has God got to do with it?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 28, 2012)

To do, got to do with it?
What's God but a bronze age superstition?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 28, 2012)

Dammit.  Bloody slow-moving phone.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 28, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Thank God the girl is OK. ( Well, physically anyway. ). I had a real dread of how this was going to end up.


 
You mean she's virgo intacto?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 28, 2012)

Forrest's mistake was to flee to France without having written and directed an impressive enough portfolio of films to qualify for nonce asylum. Complex rules, there.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

_50 Shades of Grey_ is to be knocked off the best seller list by Megan Stammer's English essay, _What I did on my Holidays_


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2012)

girasol said:


> Looks like a not such a bad ending to this...  They were found walking around holding hands...
> 
> Relieved Megan's natural father says 'I'm not angry at all, we all do silly thing when we are young'


 
Magnanimous of him, and generous to say that 30 is still young.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 28, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Magnanimous of him, and generous to say that 30 is still young.


 
I think he was talking about his daughter.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I think he was talking about his daughter.


 
Oh


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Magnanimous of him, and generous to say that 30 is still young.


 
I wonder if the two sets of parents met up during the caper?
It would have been a bit awkward, probably would have had to meet somewhere neutral like a Harvester or something.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I wonder if the two sets of parents met up during the caper?
> It would have been a bit awkward, probably would have had to meet somewhere neutral like a Harvester or something.


 
I'm sure being permitted to to go the salad bar as many times as they fancied broke the ice.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I wonder if the two sets of parents met up during the caper?
> It would have been a bit awkward, probably would have had to meet somewhere neutral like a Harvester or something.


 
I wondered if they met. Hence the appeal by his parents.

Can't imagine it being like Wife Swap.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I wonder if the two sets of parents met up during the caper?
> probably would have had to meet somewhere neutral like a Harvester or something.


 
Why would they've probably met at somewhere like a Harvester? (Nice sneer at the working class)

Twat.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:
			
		

> Why would they've probably met at somewhere like a Harvester? (Nice sneer at the working class)
> 
> Twat.



Sense. Makes. None.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> Why would they've probably met at somewhere like a Harvester? (Nice sneer at the working class)
> 
> Twat.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 28, 2012)

What an odd thing to say


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

What's wrong with a Harvester


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 28, 2012)

Anywhere that has "platters" on the menu should be firebombed.


----------



## DRINK? (Sep 28, 2012)

And the mcanns retain their hide and seek champions title for another year


----------



## T & P (Sep 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> What's wrong with a Harvester


 Their salads are shit.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

It was the "somewhere like a Harvester" that pissed me off.

Maybe I've spent too long out of the UK, I used to get taken to the Harvester for Birthday meals.

I though being taken to "somewhere like a Harvester" was having a dig at people who don't have much money and make bad choices.

Sorry if I've misunderstood.


----------



## Geri (Sep 28, 2012)

Of course it's a slur. I once got told I looked like a waitress at a Harvester (based on my photo, not in real life). I did not take it as a compliment.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> It was the "somewhere like a Harvester" that pissed me off.
> 
> Maybe I've spent too long out of the UK, I used to get taken to the Harvester for Birthday meals.
> 
> ...



Doesn't the girl go to a private school?


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 28, 2012)

Geri said:


> Of course it's a slur. I once got told I looked like a waitress at a Harvester (based on my photo, not in real life). I did not take it as a compliment.


What's meant to be bad about being a 'waitress at a harvester'? How does it compare with a toby carvery. I'm not getting this.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> It was the "somewhere like a Harvester" that pissed me off.
> 
> Maybe I've spent too long out of the UK, I used to get taken to the Harvester for Birthday meals.
> 
> ...


lol this is the pizza hut thread all over again..


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

Wetherspoons


----------



## Thora (Sep 28, 2012)

The food is pretty shit at harvester.


----------



## co-op (Sep 28, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> lol this is the pizza hut thread all over again..


 
It's the white van man one from yesterday too


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

T & P said:


> Their salads are shit.


Worse than Pizza Hut?


----------



## Geri (Sep 28, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> What's meant to be bad about being a 'waitress at a harvester'? How does it compare with a toby carvery. I'm not getting this.


 
I don't know. I've never been to either.


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

co-op said:


> It's the white van man one from yesterday too


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> lol this is the pizza hut thread all over again..


 
Was that a thread teh people knew about? Link please!


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 28, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Anywhere that has "platters" on the menu should be firebombed.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

Thora said:


> The food is pretty shit at harvester.


 
I thought the semi middle class business had died by now ......


----------



## co-op (Sep 28, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Anywhere that has "platters" on the menu should be firebombed.


 
Lol now it's turning into the longdog travellers thread


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

We should all just eat local food


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Sep 28, 2012)

The mental scarring will be non existent - she will be a bit upset for a while that her romance ended, the publicity will do her head in but die down, and sooner or later she will realise that her teacher was a bit of a nonce. 

But the jokes will follow her for years to come...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2012)

I eat at Harvester and am firmly middle class. I don't eat their salad though. And one of their fillet steaks killed my cat.


----------



## The Octagon (Sep 28, 2012)

I used to work in the harvester kitchens. 

I wouldn't eat the salad at my particular branch.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:
			
		

> It was the "somewhere like a Harvester" that pissed me off.
> 
> Maybe I've spent too long out of the UK, I used to get taken to the Harvester for Birthday meals.
> 
> ...



You are a true man of the people. I only got taken to the Happy Eater on my birthday. I feel like such a rich prick for even posting


----------



## marty21 (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> You are a true man of the people. I only got taken to the Happy Eater on my birthday. I feel like such a rich prick for even posting


luxury!


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

Thora said:


> The food is pretty shit at harvester.


 
Where should the working class go for a decent meal away from home then?

Anywhere better than harvester you can recommend ? My Brother still insists on going to Burger King but I want him to have a special night, Harvester is the only place where he lives that has napkins and a table cloth, I want him to celebrate his first wedding anniversary without pot noodles being on the tables.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 28, 2012)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Magnanimous of him, and generous to say that 30 is still young.


Oi!


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> Where should the working class go for a decent meal away from home then?
> 
> Anywhere better than harvester you can recommend ? My Brother still insists on going to Burger King but I want him to have a special night, Harvester is the only place where he lives that has napkins and a table cloth, I want him to celebrate his first wedding anniversary without pot noodles being on the tables.


Why don't you just go to a nice place within your budget? You don't have to choose it on the basis of what perceived class it is, just somewhere that's nice and you'll think he'll like.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> You are a true man of the people. I only got taken to the Happy Eater on my birthday. I feel like such a rich prick for even posting


 
Fuck yea! Someome I can feel really connected to in our struggle to overturn the rich that control our lives! Fuck Eton! Fuck the Labour Party! Fuck the Slimey cunt Cameron, Fuck the Lid dem I can't even remember the name of, Fuck Miliaband, rise up and grab your FREEDOM.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 28, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Oi!


 
I turned 40 last month. SO SHUT IT


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> Why don't you just go to a nice place within your budget? You don't have to choose it on the basis of what perceived class it is, just somewhere that's nice and you'll think he'll like.


 
Where can you find a "nice place within your budget" in London these days? I spend most of my time looking for cheep deals in the markets for just basics.


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 28, 2012)

Badgers said:


> It would have been a bit awkward, probably would have had to meet somewhere neutral like a Harvester or something.


Toby Carvery?


----------



## Gromit (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> Where should the working class go for a decent meal away from home then?
> 
> Anywhere better than harvester you can recommend ? My Brother still insists on going to Burger King but I want him to have a special night, Harvester is the only place where he lives that has napkins and a table cloth, I want him to celebrate his first wedding anniversary without pot noodles being on the tables.



Nandos.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

But this has fuck all to do with the thread.

The girl has been found, the ex-teacher has been found.

Another thread for the class bullshit again.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

Gromit said:


> Nandos.


 
What is Nandos? Like CrappyD?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> But this has fuck all to do with the thread.
> 
> The girl has been found, the ex-teacher has been found.
> 
> Another thread for the class bullshit again.



You started it, though, you snivelling madman.


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> Where can you find a "nice place within your budget" in London these days? I spend most of my time looking for cheep deals in the markets for just basics.


Turkish restaurants tend to be very good value and the portions are plentiful.


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 28, 2012)

How stupid of them to stay in France and try and to get a job. Hardly mastermind was he..... Thankgod


----------



## keithy (Sep 28, 2012)

Wtf are you on about? London is so fucking cheap for food and eating out


----------



## weltweit (Sep 28, 2012)

neonwilderness said:


> Toby Carvery?


Had one of those a couple of weeks ago, nice plate stacked high with roast beef & turkey, yorkshire pud, roast and boiled spuds, all the veg ... lashings of gravy .... yum ..


----------



## keithy (Sep 28, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> How stupid of them to stay in France and try and to get a job. Hardly mastermind was he..... Thankgod


 
Indeed.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Harvester is working class, well bugger me. Should have known ckme to think about it, their stock is delivered by a...


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> Turkish restaurants tend to be very good value and the portions are plentiful.


Do you have posh greggs in London or is that still a geordie thing?


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> Do you have posh greggs in London or is that still a geordie thing?


Just normal Greggs I think. What's the posh version like?


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> Just normal Greggs I think. What's the posh version like?


You get a seat and a table to eat your sausage roll at.


----------



## cesare (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> You get a seat and a table to eat your sausage roll at.


Oh yeah, some of em have got the cafe bit . . . Not sure about Central London though


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> You started it, though, you snivelling madman.


 
Started what? Anther 10 pages of "whose father is more working class than yours?" 

Uraban at its heart


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> Oh yeah, some of em have got the cafe bit . . . Not sure about Central London though


 
Seats, pet, ta eet ya scran at, hoo fuckin proper is that, like?


----------



## mrsfran (Sep 28, 2012)

I attended a private school _while working as a waitress in a Harvester_. I MUST BLOW YOUR MINDS.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 28, 2012)

No.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

mrsfran said:


> I attended a private school _while working as a waitress in a Harvester_. I MUST BLOW YOUR MINDS.


 

Five years later you had the world at your feet, success has been so easy for you. But divint forget, it's me who got you there and I can put you right fucking down again.


----------



## mrsfran (Sep 28, 2012)

*sobs*


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Phil Oakey was a trend setter, the first to have an emo fringe, or did Mike Score do it first?


----------



## Espresso (Sep 28, 2012)

From the starting point of a teacher absconding with a pupil from Eastbourne we now are on pasties in Geordieland.
Nice.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> What is Nandos? Like CrappyD?



It's the Frankie and Bennies of Portugeese food. 
Grilled chicken n chips with spicy sauces for you to add to taste.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2012)

Harvester have the driest meat known to mankind. You can find more moisture in the Gobi fucking desert. And they are well scottish with the portions.Oh aye the veg is plentiful but who dines out for veg?


I've never felt anything other than robbed by them.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 28, 2012)

The north east is all about Peter's for pasties.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 28, 2012)

Mad paedo outrage about 24y.o Zhang Muyi and 12y.o gf. google it, cant link to the mail for some reason.

Eta-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ear-old-Canadian-model.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

It's pretty disturbing tbh

Sorry if its been posted already, cba reading it all


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Gromit said:


> It's the Frankie and Bennies of Portugeese food.
> Grilled chicken n chips with spicy sauces for you to add to taste.


 
Nandos is South African.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Mad paedo outrage about 24y.o Zhang Muyi and 12y.o gf. google it, cant link to the mail for some reason.
> 
> Eta-
> 
> ...


Or find the u75 thread


----------



## IC3D (Sep 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> Turkish restaurants tend to be very good value and the portions are plentiful.


And great for Pides


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 28, 2012)

@LC

Yeah or that   Can't we have a bit of outrage here? I'm disgusted, personally.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 28, 2012)

IC3D said:


> And great for Pides


 
How do you pronounce that?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 28, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Mad paedo outrage about 24y.o Zhang Muyi and 12y.o gf. google it, cant link to the mail for some reason.
> 
> Eta-
> 
> ...


And yet they publish photographs with nudge-nudge captions of a pre-pubescent girl in a bikini but consider it OK because she's above the age of consent now.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 28, 2012)

Yeah Mrs M you're right, I'm trying to avoid Mail-style bloodvessel-popping outrage but it it's pretty fucking sickening all round, the story and the subsequent coverage in parts of the press.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 28, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> How do you pronounce that?


Like a Turk saying paed


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2012)

Is this the right thread to admit that when harvester first stopped including solid cheese at their salad cart, it took me a while to adjust to this new reality and on one occasion I brought my own grated cheese with me in a bag?


----------



## Gromit (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> Nandos is South African.



Portuguese-Mozambican / Peri Peri chicken

According to Wiki. 

But as far as im concerned they mainly do Peri Peri which I consider as Portugeese.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

> _*Nando's*_ is a South African casual dining restaurant group


 
Wiki.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> And yet they publish photographs with nudge-nudge captions of a pre-pubescent girl in a bikini but consider it OK because she's above the age of consent now.


 
Is this in relation to the story that was published around the time the bloke got done for fisting porn?  What exactly happened?  Was this girl famous or just a random?


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 28, 2012)

This thread has gone very strange


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> Wiki.


 
Wiki says, "originating from the Mozambiquan-Portuguese" and as for Mozambique, Wiki also says of the cuisine: "Present for nearly 500 years, the Portuguese greatly impacted the cuisine of Mozambique"

So it's a Portuguese restaurant.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

So Dominoes is Italian because it serves pizza?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 28, 2012)

I think so elbows unless everyone involved in the story dies suddenly, then we'll all look pretty bad


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2012)

IC3D said:


> I think so elbows unless everyone involved in the story dies suddenly, then we'll all look pretty bad


 
How could we all have died at the same time?

The salad cart!

(apologies to the grim reaper sketch)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't quite understand why this story made the national news. Not really good for anyone concerned that it did, I would think.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> So Dominoes is Italian because it serves pizza?


 
Was Dominoes set up by the Italian-American community? No? Oh....


----------



## ChrissyJones (Sep 28, 2012)

Are we will talking about Greggs in here?


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Was Dominoes set up by the Italian-American community? No? Oh....


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Monaghan

Yank


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Monaghan
> 
> Yank


Ascetic fundie barmcake, iirc.


----------



## free spirit (Sep 28, 2012)

ChrissyJones said:


> Are we will talking about Greggs in here?


set up by a yank apparently


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Monaghan
> 
> Yank


 
Eggzactly!

If Tony Soprano had set Dominoes up, and New Jersey had been an Italian colony for 500 years, then I'd say Dominoes is Italian.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

free spirit said:


> set up by a yank apparently


 
I thought it was aJewish guy escaping from ze nazis just before WWII.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2012)

Gromit said:
			
		

> Nandos.



Anger


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 28, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Is this in relation to the story that was published around the time the bloke got done for fisting porn?


 He was acquitted. 





Fez909 said:


> What exactly happened? Was this girl famous or just a random?


I'd never heard of her, and confess I've completely forgotten her name but apparently she's a minor celeb in the US. The Mail were saying the fisting porn was child porn (although they eventually changed the tone of the piece) but failed to see the irony, let alone the hypocrisy of publishing the photo. Apparently there have been complaints but the Mail still refuse to pull the pic


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

So you don't have these in London yet?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> So you don't have these in London yet?


 
WOW, where is that??


----------



## purves grundy (Sep 28, 2012)

wow, so that's that then *pfffffffff*


----------



## free spirit (Sep 28, 2012)

not a patch on the bargain bakery up in nahm though


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 28, 2012)

Dandred said:


> Where should the working class go for a decent meal away from home then?
> 
> Anywhere better than harvester you can recommend ? My Brother still insists on going to Burger King but I want him to have a special night, Harvester is the only place where he lives that has napkins and a table cloth, I want him to celebrate his first wedding anniversary without pot noodles being on the tables.


 
But it's his anniversary, not yours.


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2012)

At this rate this thread will be suitable to talk about John Harvey Kellogg, of cornflakes fame, and his 'enemas good, sex bad' approach to life. Yes many types of sexual activity, even between married couples, were unnatural, but yoghurt enemas on the other hand were clearly part of gods great design.


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

The toon @ fez.


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> Harvester is working class, well bugger me. Should have known ckme to think about it, their stock is delivered by a...


 
I've always viewed Harvester as someplace you go if you have a car and kids.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> The toon @ fez.


 
I shall be sure to visit this fine establishment next time I'm up there.  I assume it's just a normal Greggs but you get a plate for your pasty?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I've always viewed Harvester as someplace you go if you have a car and kids.


 
I thought that was Wacky Warehouse.  Harvester is for tasteless DINKYs init?


----------



## Firky (Sep 28, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I shall be sure to visit this fine establishment next time I'm up there. I assume it's just a normal Greggs but you get a plate for your pasty?


 
I guess so, haven't been in, Greggs is pretty ming.


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 28, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I thought that was Wacky Warehouse. Harvester is for tasteless DINKYs init?


 
Who knows.  I don't have a car and don't recall ever seeing a Harvester or a Wacky Warehouse from a bus.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 28, 2012)

firky said:


> I guess so, haven't been in, Greggs is pretty ming.


 
Snob


----------



## snadge (Sep 29, 2012)

Thought I may add a little bit seeing Meltingpot got a lot of stick for his revelation.

I was 38 at the time and was at a house party, invited by some friends of mine, ended up in bed with a vibrant, beautiful young lady and we had fun, arranged to see each other again and went for a drink etc, where I found out she was just turned 17 ( I knew she was at college studying so I did know she had left school, ergo over 16 although I thought she was mid 20's), I was horrified, not because of how old she was but at what I would be portrayed as, I finished the relationship there and then and felt terrible.

For years this young woman hated me, refused to speak to me etc and it was difficult as we ran in the same circles.

Now we speak and are great friends, she is married to someone else and has forgiven me but I did learn something about that, she really wanted to be with me and 'damn the age difference' and somehow I wish that I had had the fortitude to go with it.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 29, 2012)

My dad was 10 years older than my mum. I asked them if as a 21 year old lad I should therefore be eyeing up 11 year old girls.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 29, 2012)

Dandred said:
			
		

> Fuck yea! Someome I can feel really connected to in our struggle to overturn the rich that control our lives! Fuck Eton! Fuck the Labour Party! Fuck the Slimey cunt Cameron, Fuck the Lid dem I can't even remember the name of, Fuck Miliaband, rise up and grab your FREEDOM.



I only wish I still worked at Spud-U-Like so I could pour the working class beans on the cheap mild Cheddar for you


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 29, 2012)

snadge said:


> Thought I may add a little bit seeing Meltingpot got a lot of stick for his revelation.
> 
> I was 38 at the time and was at a house party, invited by some friends of mine, ended up in bed with a vibrant, beautiful young lady and we had fun, arranged to see each other again and went for a drink etc, where I found out she was just turned 17 ( I knew she was at college studying so I did know she had left school, ergo over 16 although I thought she was mid 20's), I was horrified, not because of how old she was but at what I would be portrayed as, I finished the relationship there and then and felt terrible.
> 
> ...


 
Forgiven you for being a 38 year old and taking a 17 year old to bed, or forgiven you for dumping her due to societal norms?


----------



## snadge (Sep 29, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Forgiven you for being a 38 year old and taking a 17 year old to bed, or forgiven you for dumping her due to societal norms?


 
The latter.

By the way you phrased that question, you already have a preconceived notion anyway.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 29, 2012)

snadge said:


> The latter.


 
Well, at the risk of going on ayatollah's list, I think this sort of thing is a shame.  I know teenagers are a bit erratic with their emotions, but that doesn't equate to them always being permanently damaged by entering into a relationship with an older person.  It's a difficult one because of the potential for abuse, but in situations such as yours...well, is society's response more damaging than whatever might have happened...I think in this case, yes.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 29, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> This thread's mostly about love and music actually
> There is no evidence to suggest that said teacher has had his strumming fingers anywhere near the young woman's squeeze box. Until such evidence is apparent then the discussion should really focus on his musical crimes and if her exposure to his love songs actually amounts to child abuse.


 
For her part, she's probably making him listen to Skrillex.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 29, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> For her part, she's probably making him listen to Skrillex.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 29, 2012)

snadge said:


> The latter.
> 
> By the way you phrased that question, you already have a preconceived notion anyway.


 
The second part of your reply was edited in.  What did you think my preconceived notion was? (I presume you've read my reply now, which was before I saw the edited part of your reply.)


----------



## snadge (Sep 29, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Well, at the risk of going on ayatollah's list, I think this sort of thing is a shame. I know teenagers are a bit erratic with their emotions, but that doesn't equate to them always being permanently damaged by entering into a relationship with an older person. It's a difficult one because of the potential for abuse, but in situations such as yours...well, is society's response more damaging than whatever might have happened...I think in this case, yes.


 
I agree, it was a strange episode, she knew me through my actions and people that knew my circle of friends and really liked me for what I was, she knew what sort of person I was, I knew nothing of her, she was someone I had just met and got on famously with.

It was quite sad and to tell the truth I wish I had said damn to the age difference and I know she still does, sadly our lives went different paths but I still catch up once in a while and, no, I don't do affairs and neither does she.



Fez909 said:


> The second part of your reply was edited in. What did you think my preconceived notion was? (I presume you've read my reply now, which was before I saw the edited part of your reply.)


 
Just the wording, maybe when asking such a question, neutralize the wording, also I thought it was very obvious why the animosity from her was there, so you asking with 2 scenarios was the main reason I stated that.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 29, 2012)

snadge said:


> Just the wording, maybe when asking such a question, neutralize the wording.


 
I thought I had. Oh, well.


----------



## snadge (Sep 29, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I thought I had. Oh, well.


 


Well at my end of the keyboard, it's a pretty touchy subject and I know how rabid some people get.

Maybe like so.



> Was the forgiveness given for you dumping her?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 29, 2012)

snadge said:


> Well at my end of the keyboard, it's a pretty touchy subject and I know how rabid some people get.
> 
> Maybe like so.


 
Well, I can see why you'd be defensive, but I'm not sure how much more delicately I could've phrased it


----------



## barney_pig (Sep 29, 2012)

Nandos is just KFC for the posh. All the cool kids are going to Cosmos now.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 29, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Who knows.  I don't have a car and don't recall ever seeing a Harvester or a Wacky Warehouse from a bus.


There's one on the south circular between west dulwich and forest hill, near the Hornimann - extremely posh locale. Also one on Beluah hill in Upper / South Norwood (not posh). 

Harvesters are just nondescript chain restaurants, like the beefeater or bernie inn. Because they don't feature any particular foreign cuisine, and because they promote quite heavily based on price, they are popular with budget-conscious older types who perhaps dislike 'foreign food'. 

It's true it's not really a middle class sort of place, but I think the reference on this thread was because its sort of the bland, brightly-lit kind of restaurant you might choose for an awkward meeting with people you don't know very well (and therefore don't know what food they eat). 

It was hardly a swipe against the working classes.  Noncerino was a teacher, and Megan went to the oi d of school where they do trips to LA, and parent who were happy and could afford for her to do that.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

From nuances, the mentally ill racists, to Harvester and class war, all on a thread about the abduction of a child. God bless urban


----------



## Badgers (Sep 29, 2012)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> It's true it's not really a middle class sort of place, but I think the reference on this thread was because its sort of the bland, brightly-lit kind of restaurant you might choose for an awkward meeting with people you don't know very well (and therefore don't know what food they eat).



Correct.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

In the interests of balance, I feel that I should add that my grandmother was a crashing snob of the most insufferable kind. She only drank red wine, because she thought drinking white wine was a bit common.

But, anyway, she used to take us out to dinner at the local Harvester. Or Beefeater, on special occasions.

Didn't Reggie Perrin's boss eat at a Beefeater on at least one occasion? Maybe not.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 29, 2012)

A Berni Inn?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 29, 2012)

Garlic bread


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

Is Birds' trifle working class?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Is trifle working class?


 
does it come from m&s, tesco or iceland?


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

I just checked, it's Bird's, I love the stuff but I am not going to eat it if it is a staple food of council estate dwellers.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 29, 2012)

Depends on whether it is from Asda or Waitrose. If it's home-made with hand-whipped cream and jelly made with gelatine rather than from a packet, it's always middle-class.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

Nescafe coffee is working class.


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> From nuances, the mentally ill racists, to Harvester and class war, all on a thread about the abduction of a child. God bless urban


You love it, you slaaaaaaag.


----------



## tar1984 (Sep 29, 2012)

So a harvester is like a beef-eater? I always feel slightly unsettled by the references on here about certain places being for working class people, even though its only jokes it still means these issues are relevant to some people. Before I joined this site I never would have even _considered_ there was a class aspect or any implicit inferiority to eating at beef-eater, greggs or pizza hut


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Nescafe coffee is working class.



Gold Blend is skilled manual, though.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> You love it, you slaaaaaaag.


 
I am getting fascinated by class war food and beverages, I think I range from the gentry (I have pheasant in the freezer) to the common prole as I also love borsch. You can't get any more proletarian than russian borsch.


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> I am getting fascinated by class war food and beverages, I think I range from the gentry (I have pheasant in the freezer) to the common prole as I also love borsch. You can't get any more proletarian than russian borsch.


Are you talking industrial proletariat or modern day?


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Gold Blend is skilled manual, though.


 
I'd agree with that, Alta Rica being a ladder of social mobility that allows the scum to step up the class ladder and into coffee grounds of the middle class.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> Are you talking industrial proletariat or modern day?


 
Well that's the thing isn't it, loads of peasant food is now achingly middle class. Such as the borsch. I just don't know where I am?


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> I'd agree with that, Alta Rica being a ladder of social mobility that allows the scum to step up the class ladder and into coffee grounds of the middle class.


I reckon you have a V mask that you secretly wear when typing about class foods


----------



## Yu_Gi_Oh (Sep 29, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Depends on whether it is from Asda or Waitrose. If it's home-made with hand-whipped cream and jelly made with gelatine rather than from a packet, it's always middle-class.


 
Hold up, people make jelly _from scratch_?


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2012)

Angel Delight is the most proletarian food there has ever been. Does it still exist?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Nescafe coffee is working class.


I'll tell Artichoke. She'll be delighted. Someone called her a "bourge" a few weeks back, and she's been simmering ever since.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Angel Delight is the most proletarian food there has ever been. Does it still exist?


Angel delight, salad cream flavour. Get the fuck in.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 29, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Angel Delight is the most proletarian food there has ever been. Does it still exist?


it's 70s we all had it then


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> it's 70s we all had it then


Butterscotch was best flavour.


----------



## Espresso (Sep 29, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Angel Delight is the most proletarian food there has ever been. Does it still exist?


Certainly does.
I had a butterscotch one this week. Lovely stuff.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2012)

A lovely helping of Smash with a Birdseye Steakhouse Grill and some marrowfat peas. Angel Delight for afters.

GREAT Britain.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 29, 2012)

revol68 said:


> does it come from m&s, tesco or iceland?


my mum always made it. convenience foods in the 80s were crap and pricy


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

Pickled onions, bourgeois snack or lumpen delicacy?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:
			
		

> Pickled onions, bourgeois snack or lumpen delicacy?



Are we talking silverskin?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Pickled onions, bourgeois snack or lumpen delicacy?


 
lumpen delicacy.

Butlin's holidays?


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

Espresso said:


> Certainly does.
> I had a butterscotch one this week. Lovely stuff.


 
I always preferred to make it with double the amount of milk and have a luxury milkshake.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

revol68 said:


> lumpen delicacy.
> 
> Butlin's holidays?


 
Butlins is PFWC, when I worked in a psychiatric hospital all the cleaners went to Butlins once a year together.


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

revol68 said:


> lumpen delicacy.
> 
> Butlin's holidays?


Butlin's went up market when they had to compete with Centreparc


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2012)

Space-hoppers. What were they all about eh?


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2012)

I mock but I love this kind of stuff.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 29, 2012)

Whereas Pontins have gone downmarket since their take-over, with regular features on Watchdog.


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Space-hoppers. What were they all about eh?


Those are great. Got my niece a mini one for her birthday a year ago and she's still bouncing away on it.


----------



## Espresso (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> I always preferred to make it with double the amount of milk and have a luxury milkshake.


 
Nice.

I have been known to make profiteroles and stuff some with whipped cream and some with thicker than usual butterscotch Angel Delight. Slathered with warm chocolate fudge sauce. Pretty lush, as it goes.
Proletarian profiteroles, no less.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> Butlin's went up market when they had to compete with Centreparc


 
You wouldn't see staff like this in Centreparc


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Butlins is PFWC, when I worked in a psychiatric hospital all the cleaners went to Butlins once a year together.


 
what the fuck is PFWC?


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Whereas Pontins have gone downmarket since their take-over, with regular features on Watchdog.


 
I lived next to Pontins in Blackpool for about 10 years. The public tannoy system sounded like they were menacing people back into their chalets and there was barbed wire on the roof of each of the apartment buildings.

It looked like Auschwitz. Don't believe me? If it wasn't for the sign, you wouldn't know the difference.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

_._


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

revol68 said:


> what the fuck is PFWC?


_proper_ fucking working class


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> _proper_ fucking working class


 
used to holiday with my parents in Butlin's Wonderwest World, was alright when I was 6, not so much fun as a 14 year old hippy gath bastard.

"Why aren't you going to the discos?"

"I hate the world!"


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 29, 2012)

white dog shit


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> white dog shit


 
You win. That IS the most proletarian food I can think of. Even we were richer than that.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

Favelado said:


> You win. That IS the most proletarian food I can think of. Even we were richer than that.


 
Have you noticed the decline of white dog shit availability has coincided with the decomposition of the western industrial working class? 

Something for Proletarian Democracy to take up?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2012)

its cos cheap dog food isn't allowed to contain bone meal post bse


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

I remember asking some French exchange student if they still fed their cows on human sewerage


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> Those are great. Got my niece a mini one for her birthday a year ago and she's still bouncing away on it.


 
Funny enough I got one for one of my nephews last Christmas, of course I had to pump it up & test it out before giving it to him.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 29, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I've always viewed Harvester as someplace you go if you have a car and kids.


 
So, we're back to paedos again!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> I am getting fascinated by class war food and beverages, I think I range from the gentry (I have pheasant in the freezer) to the common prole as I also love borsch. You can't get any more proletarian than russian borsch.


 
Pah, _borscht_ isn't "Russian", it's Jewish. The Slavs stole it from us. Unsurprising, as all they had was various types of cabbage soup on their menus before that.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Is Birds' trifle working class?


 
As a kid it was trifle made with Dream Topping and tinned fruit salad for a special sunday treat; now it's all organic cream, fresh fruit and amontilado sherry. they both taste great.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

Is meat paste of any one class? My sister used to get through about 3 tubes of that per week.

Small, plastic-wrapped sausage-shaped tubes of... smudgy pink indeterminate goo. With each end tied off with a little metal clip.

That, and breakfast sausage.


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

Shippams meat or fish paste
Fray bentos tinned pies
Findus crispy pancakes


----------



## hegley (Sep 29, 2012)

"mum, what's for tea?"
"bread and jam."


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> Shippams meat or fish paste


The stuff I'm finding on google images definitely ain't it. Looks like Shippams (at least these days) comes in a jar.

We used to get squidgy plastic tubes of the stuff. Sainsbury's own brand, I think.

These days, my sister only feeds my niece super-organic freedom food; I sometimes wonder if she ever thinks back to what we were fed


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> The stuff I'm finding on google images definitely ain't it. Looks like Shippams (at least these days) comes in a jar.
> 
> We used to get squidgy plastic tubes of the stuff. Sainsbury's own brand, I think.
> 
> These days, my sister only feeds my niece super-organic freedom food; I sometimes wonder if she ever thinks back to what we were fed



It always used to come in a glass jar with a lever-off style lid. Didn't know it was still available, tbh. I haven't tried squishy tubes


----------



## Belushi (Sep 29, 2012)

hegley said:


> "mum, what's for tea?"
> "bread and jam."


 
"dad, what's for tea?"
"shit with sugar on!"


----------



## harpo (Sep 29, 2012)

Pontins.  I worked as a cleaner there in the 80s and what a shite place it was. There were no hoovers or proper cleaning stuff, everything had to be done with weird creams and scourers or stiff garden brushes. The 'chalets' were threadbare, tatty, dark and grim and I had a weird itchy rash for the few weeks I stuck the job.  God I used to feel sorry for people who actually paid money to stay in the skanky hovels.  Surely nobody ever went back twice.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 29, 2012)

harpo said:


> Pontins. I worked as a cleaner there in the 80s and what a shite place it was. There were no hoovers or proper cleaning stuff, everything had to be done with weird creams and scourers or stiff garden brushes. The 'chalets' were threadbare, tatty, dark and grim and I had a weird itchy rash for the few weeks I stuck the job. God I used to feel sorry for people who actually paid money to stay in the skanky hovels. Surely nobody ever went back twice.


My friends family always went abroad every year but my friend refused to go and used to go to either pontins or butlins instead... I couldn't believe it!


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 29, 2012)

[quote="cesare, post: 11560291]
Findus crispy pancakes[/quote]

Haven't seen those for years. Are they still around?


----------



## harpo (Sep 29, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> My friends family always went abroad every year but my friend refused to go and used to go to either pontins or butlins instead... I couldn't believe it!


 

Someone told me they improved a lot from the 90s.  The one I worked at began to host the Southport Weekender in the mid 90s which was quite a big soul event and maybe still is.


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> Findus crispy pancakes
> 
> Haven't seen those for years. Are they still around?


Yep! Teeps brought some round for me, as it happens. Can't remember where she found them. They're much much smaller than I remembered them.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 29, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> [quote="cesare, post: 11560291]
> Findus crispy pancakes


 
Haven't seen those for years. Are they still around?[/quote]
I think they might be. Vesta curries are still around. All the corner shops round here are very old school. Lots of old blokes living  on their tod still consuming what they ate 30 years ago. Why should they change??


----------



## laptop (Sep 29, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> cesare said:
> 
> 
> > Findus crispy pancakes
> ...


 
A search leads to... errr... http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/findus-crispy-pancakes.271733/page-11


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 29, 2012)

harpo said:


> Someone told me they improved a lot from the 90s. The one I worked at began to host the Southport Weekender in the mid 90s which was quite a big soul event and maybe still is.


This would have been mid to late eighties. I don't know what they were like then, I just thought she was mad to pass up the opportunity to go for an all expenses paid foreign holiday.


----------



## harpo (Sep 29, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> This would have been mid to late eighties. I don't know what they were like then, I just thought she was mad to pass up the opportunity to go for an all expenses paid foreign holiday.


 
If it was anything like the Pontins in Southport she'd have been mad to set foot across the front gate.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 29, 2012)

I must have had quite a few beers yesterday, I don 't even remember writing that Harvester stuff


----------



## cesare (Sep 29, 2012)

Dandred said:


> I must have had quite a few beers yesterday, I don 't even remember writing that Harvester stuff


"Doing a Dandred" 



Hope you don't have too much of a hangover.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 29, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> I think they might be. Vesta curries are still around. All the corner shops round here are very old school. Lots of old blokes living on their tod still consuming what they ate 30 years ago. Why should they change??


 
Lusty doesn't live on his tod though??


----------



## Dandred (Sep 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> "Doing a Dandred"
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you don't have too much of a hangover.


 
It's 1.18 am here so I'm on the beers again! I will try to refrain from posting in here though.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 29, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> Haven't seen those for years. Are they still around?




Just when out to get some because of them being mentioned


Defo still around


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 29, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> Just when out to get some because of them being mentioned
> 
> 
> Defo still around


 
I'm going to get some too. Where did you find them?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 29, 2012)

You can get them at Iceland


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 29, 2012)

They are smaller


Or my hands are bigger


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2012)

they haven't shrunk, you fat handed oafs, they were always small


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

Can anyone remember Bejam freezer store? It was even more proletarian than Iceland; you could get food on tick. I figure if you didn't pay up you'd end up in one of their frozen meat pies.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Can anyone remember Bejam freezer store? It was even more proletarian than Iceland; you could get food on tick. I figure if you didn't pay up you'd end up in one of their frozen meat pies.


 


I remember Bejams alright, but didn't know you could get stuff on tick.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 29, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> they haven't shrunk, you fat handed oafs, they were always small




Pfft you more than likely one of them plebs who believe that creme eggs have no shrunk over the years as well


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> I remember Bejams alright, but didn't know you could get stuff on tick.


 
I am probably wrong.

There wiki entry is pretty minimal, bought out in 1989 by Iceland. Fascinating.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> I am probably wrong.
> 
> There wiki entry is pretty minimal, bought out in 1989 by Iceland. Fascinating.


 
Must have been around the same time Fine Fare got bought out and became Gateway.  All this and rave culture too. The late 80s were mental.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 29, 2012)

harpo said:


> Pontins. I worked as a cleaner there in the 80s and what a shite place it was. There were no hoovers or proper cleaning stuff, everything had to be done with weird creams and scourers or stiff garden brushes. The 'chalets' were threadbare, tatty, dark and grim and I had a weird itchy rash for the few weeks I stuck the job. God I used to feel sorry for people who actually paid money to stay in the skanky hovels. Surely nobody ever went back twice.


 
I've just remembered my first job after leaving school (1979-82) was dealing with travel insurance claims, and Pontins had arranged a block policy on behalf of their customers with the insurance company to provide basic travel insurance to all Pontins holidaymakers. This was included in the price of their holiday booking, IIRC the company only got about £1 per adult & 50p per child/per week of holiday for the cover provided, basically we insured the holidaymakers, for peanuts, NOT Pontins.

I was the one & only person dealing with claims under this scheme, loads of work in the season, almost bugger all to do over the winter period.

Then one of the biggest Pontins camps, IIRC Morecombe, had a major out break of food poisoning and the whole fucking camp got closed down, thousands were forced to curtail their holidays and thousands more had their holidays cancelled - I ended-up with mountains upon mountains of bloody claim files in piles all around my desk.

It was a fucking nightmare, and because we were basically the insurers of the holidaymakers, not Pontins, we could only pay out for curtailment & cancellation of their holidays, and associated costs, like travelling costs.

But, we had absolutely nothing to do with any for compensation for the illness & suffering, that was negligence and the responsibly of Pontins' public liability insurers, who we would be in turn be recovering everything we paid out & our admin costs from as well, but the abuse I got from people when I tried to explain this and refer them to the correct insurance company was unbelievable.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 29, 2012)

If you choose to work in insurance you deserve everything you get...



You are the devils little minions


----------



## barney_pig (Sep 29, 2012)

this thread is doubly useful: if when reading it you recognise any of the food stuffs being discussed- then you are too old to be dating a 15 year old.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 29, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> If you choose to work in insurance you deserve everything you get...
> You are the devils little minions


 


This was back in the days when there were decent insurance companies, and this was Guardian Royal Exchange – held up at the time as being the Rolls Royce of insurance companies, not normally the cheapest, but very fair.

It was drummed into us by the Claims Manager that first we had to be fair to the insured, and then fair to the company.

I doubt such attitudes exist in the industry nowadays.


----------



## Garek (Sep 29, 2012)

I really wish there was some way for stories like these not to be reported. Just been to the shops and the girls face is the front page of the papers (of course the girls, why put his face on?). An incident like this is probably going to be traumatic enough without broadcasting it to the whole nation.


----------



## harpo (Sep 29, 2012)

Any  claims for flea infestations or itchy rashes?


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> this thread is doubly useful: if when reading it you recognise any of the food stuffs being discussed- then you are too old to be dating a 15 year old.


 

It is all cheese strings and chicken dippers these days 

Ready meals, frozen food and pre-prepared stuff is far nicer these days than it used to be. Some of it is actually edible.


----------



## laptop (Sep 29, 2012)

Garek said:


> I really wish there was some way for stories like these not to be reported. Just been to the shops and the girls face is the front page of the papers (of course the girls, why put his face on?). An incident like this is probably going to be traumatic enough without broadcasting it to the whole nation.


 
Of course, the papers get to put the idea of underage sex into their readers' minds and grab loads of attention (sales?) - see this thread.

And they do so with the justification of Public Service - "find this poor lass".

But I do wonder whether somewhere in someone's mind is the idea of a deterrent. "Do not, my daughter, even think of eloping, because if you do..."


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 29, 2012)

I think it's horrible. A very similar case to this happened to someone I knew when I was a kid. I don't think it even made the local papers, tbh.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Sep 29, 2012)

One of the prefects at my school ran off with the music master, AND he got her up the duff.
Didn't appear in the papers btw.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 29, 2012)

There must be many a paedo with fond memories of the innoncence of life before the internet. And many a paedo overjoyed by the seedy wonders of the world wide well weird web too 

Ah well. The main thing is that Megan's safe now.

(excellent thread btw, good work, urbz!)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 29, 2012)

Was she ever not safe?

Serious question. I'm not condoning what the teacher did here, but what danger was the girl in, exactly? For all we know, she may have seen it as a grand adventure.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Was she ever not safe?
> 
> Serious question. I'm not condoning what the teacher did here, but what danger was the girl in, exactly? For all we know, she may have seen it as a grand adventure.


 
Yeah I don't actually think she was in danger and I doubt it will "damage" her much, well unless people make a mental big deal out of it, oh wait...

It's funny how if a lad of 15 banged his teacher people wouldn't assume he would be damaged by it, pissed at the teacher for a breach of trust etc but no one would suggest it would damage them unless there was some sort of abuse going on to. I think it's tied to gendered discourse, whereby men are made by their experiences (both good and bad) whilst women are seen as being "damaged" by them ie reactionary notions of "damaged goods" etc, which is dangerously disempowering to women.


----------



## Geri (Sep 29, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> One of the prefects at my school ran off with the music master, AND he got her up the duff.
> Didn't appear in the papers btw.


 
Posh people close ranks, quelle surprise.


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Was she ever not safe?
> 
> Serious question. I'm not condoning what the teacher did here, but what danger was the girl in, exactly? For all we know, she may have seen it as a grand adventure.


 
Physically, probably - emotionally... you can't really say.

Don't agree with revol in that it would have been viewed differently (by the authorities at least) if it was a 15 year old lad. I'd have been scarred shitless if some 30 year old over grown emo lass started flirting with me.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Physically, probably - emotionally... you can't really say.


I agree, and I don't want to speculate about this case. What I can say is that in the case that happened when I was a kid, the girl in question was emotionally damaged _before_ she ran off. That's why she ran off.

That's why this stuff is better not reaching the press, tbh.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Physically, probably - emotionally... you can't really say.
> 
> Don't agree with revol in that it would have been viewed differently (by the authorities at least) if it was a 15 year old lad. I'd have been scarred shitless if some 30 year old over grown emo lass started flirting with me.


 
I'm not talking about the authorities, I'm talking about wider societal attitudes, which still define female sexuality in terms of purity eg women are defiled by sex, whilst men are made by their conquests, hence cuntish talk about damaged goods, breaking them in etc


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 29, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Was she ever not safe?
> 
> Serious question. I'm not condoning what the teacher did here, but what danger was the girl in, exactly? For all we know, she may have seen it as a grand adventure.


 
Rather than "safe" perhaps I should've said "on her way back to her family" - she's now safe as far as they are concerned. (Well, presumably at least).


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 29, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Rather than "safe" I should've said "on her way back to her family" - she's now safe as far as they are concerned.


The family she ran away from?

Sorry, I really don't want to speculate about this case, but we don't know anything about her or her family, really. Better not to make a judgement either way, I think.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 29, 2012)

No, but I'm sure they're happier with her away from the emo-paedo.

Of course we know FA about the situation at home. She's better off in the UK than France, that's for sure. Noncing is a sport there, you know.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Sep 29, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The family she ran away from?
> 
> Sorry, I really don't want to speculate about this case, but we don't know anything about her or her family, really. Better not to make a judgement either way, I think.


'tis good that.  You've managed to smear the family whilst at the same time urging people not to judge.  Have you considered a job with the mail or telegraph?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 29, 2012)

Lemon Eddy said:


> 'tis good that. You've managed to smear the family whilst at the same time urging people not to judge. Have you considered a job with the mail or telegraph?


No intention to smear anybody. Just responding to the 'thank god she's on her way home' sentiments being expressed. I know nothing about her family.

Anyway, you may be pleased to know that I'm not going to comment further. This should not have been in the press in the first place.


----------



## Thora (Sep 29, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Was she ever not safe?
> 
> Serious question. I'm not condoning what the teacher did here, but what danger was the girl in, exactly? For all we know, she may have seen it as a grand adventure.


Seeing as leaving your wife and running away to France with a teenager is quite an unhinged thing to do, I think there was a risk that he would do something more unhinged.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

Thora said:


> Seeing as leaving your wife and running away to France with a teenager is quite an unhinged thing to do, I think there was a risk that he would do something more unhinged.


 
I don't think unhinged is the word, irresponsible, childish, and self deluded come to mind but unhinged implies a complete break with reality and any sort of moral or ethical reasoning, which I don't think is the case here. But sure lets not get in the way of stoking up fears and the worldview that everyone and everything is dangerous.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

Thora said:


> Seeing as leaving your wife and running away to France with a teenager is quite an unhinged thing to do, I think there was a risk that he would do something more unhinged.


We don't know anything about the wife, she could be a total idiot?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm wondering why all the Assange apologists haven't piled on here to defend this maths teacher?


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

IC3D said:


> We don't know anything about the wife, she could be a total idiot?


 
Most people with idiotic partners don't run away to another country with a kid they've wrote shit love songs about. They act irrationaly, maybe smack them about, hit the bottle, take up golf but run away with kids?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm wondering why all the Assange apologists haven't piled on here to defend this maths teacher?


don't tempt me


----------



## Thora (Sep 29, 2012)

IC3D said:


> We don't know anything about the wife, she could be a total idiot?


Does having an idiot wife make running away with a 15 year old a sane and sensible choice then?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Most people with idiotic partners don't run away to another country with a kid they've wrote shit love songs about.


Thats what I just don't get, is he an aspie or something


----------



## weltweit (Sep 29, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Thats what I just don't get, is he an aspie or something


I don't think that is remotely relevant!


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I don't think that is remotely relevant!


not in the least bit sorry. I can't imagine having a relationship with a 15 yr old or marrying someone to run off with one.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 29, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Thats what I just don't get, is he an aspie or something


I think your comment is quite insulting on a number or levels. Why does he have to be on the autistic spectrum to have done? Why is his wife 'idiotic'?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> I think your comment is quite insulting on a number or levels. Why does he have to be on the autistic spectrum to have done? Why is his wife 'idiotic'?


Its been raised a few times he's mental so is he? I don't think bi polar or some such but he's divorced from the establishished morality so what would a quack think?


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

So autism means someone is mental now, ffs.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

Thora said:


> Does having an idiot wife make running away with a 15 year old a sane and sensible choice then?


 
Does anyone hook up with anyone from a sane and sensible choice?

Sorry but I think attempts to paint him as "unhinged" or actually "insane" are bollocks, what he has done is simply on a spectrum of the kind of daft and idiotic things everyone does in "romantic relations", the problem is he did it with a 15 year old student he was teaching, ergo the issue is that he should have known better and that from failing to keep his feelings in line he carried out a clear breach of trust and authority. That doesn't make him insane, it's makes him an immature dickhead, something that is obvious from his blog and songs.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 29, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Its been raised a few times he's mental so is he? I don't think bi polar or some such but he's divorced from the establishished morality so what would a quack think?


Being 'mental' as you so eloquently put it does not equate to having Aspergers. Your attitude towards mental illness show you up to a bit of a dick, to be honest.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> So autism means someone is mental now, ffs.


I'm raising the idea for discussion if your interested


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

No, I am not.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 29, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Its been raised a few times he's mental so is he? I don't think bi polar or some such but he's divorced from the establishished morality so what would a quack think?


 
He definately did something that is at the least stupid and misguided and which will now land him in a whole heap of trouble, but to suggest he may have done it because he could have aspergers as if people with aspergers "get up to this sort of thing" is plain silly. If anything people with aspergers find it hard to form any kind of relationships at all, much less get married AND start a relationship with a pupil in the same year.

You don't think bipolar! what a relief that you don't think that. What is your understanding of bipolar I wonder?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Being 'mental' as you so eloquently put it does not equate to having Aspergers. Your attitude towards mental illness show you up to a bit of a dick, to be honest.


lighten up, I have people in my life with mental health problems. I'm just trying to establish the difference between illness and behaviours that are immoral


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

Tbf anyone into maths is a bit odd, so I think it's fair enough to give them a bit of a by ball.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 29, 2012)

ok then, how do you think his barrister is going to frame the defence for what hes done?


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 30, 2012)

Someone should have been alerted by her last maths exam.

30+15=69?  Come on!


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 30, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No intention to smear anybody. Just responding to the 'thank god she's on her way home' sentiments being expressed. I know nothing about her family.
> 
> Anyway, you may be pleased to know that I'm not going to comment further. *This should not have been in the press in the first place.*


 
Very true - Any long/medium term emotional damage Megan Stammers suffers is likely to be as a result of all this bullshit publicity rather than the actual eloping with gimpboy Jeremy. You know your own mind at fifteen - A few years in the future she'll probably wonder what the fuck she was thinking, but that's what your teenage years are for, try things out, make a few mistakes & find a few things out about who you are and that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2012)

Edited. Not going to comment on this any more no matter how drunk I get.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Tbf anyone into maths is a bit odd, so I think it's fair enough to give them a bit of a by ball.


----------



## Firky (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:


> ok then, how do you think his barrister is going to frame the defence for what hes done?


 
I don't know, what do you think?


----------



## Firky (Sep 30, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Edited. Not going to comment on this any more no matter how drunk I get.


 
Get drunk and argue on the internet until 2am


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2012)

firky said:


> Get drunk and argue on the internet until 2am


I've been trying to have an _intellectual_ evening.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

equationgirl said:


>


 
what you sad about, you've just been given licence to behave inappropriately?!


----------



## IC3D (Sep 30, 2012)

firky said:


> I don't know, what do you think?


probably say his wife drove him to it. I think the fact this has been dragged through the media is by far the most damaging thing to of arisen like FL said.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:
			
		

> probably say his wife drove him to it. I think the fact this has been dragged throuh the media is by far the most damaging thing to of arisen like FL said.



Dragged 'through' or 'up' by the media?


----------



## IC3D (Sep 30, 2012)

I guess this has made maths sexy in some way


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:


> I guess this has made maths sexy in some way


Equation or it isn't true.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 30, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Equation or it isn't true.


paging equationgirl


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2012)

Maths is the music of the universe.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Maths is the music of the universe.


 
Aye composed by a band about as cool as Muse.


----------



## Firky (Sep 30, 2012)

I like Muse


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Aye composed by a band about as cool as Muse.


Composed by Shostakovich!


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

firky said:


> I like Muse


 
HAHAHAHAHAHA

WHAT A CUNT!

And you slated madusa for liking metal.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 30, 2012)

LOL


----------



## Firky (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> WHAT A CUNT!


 
I know, man. I only really like their first two albums but it's still inexcusable. Much like running away with a 15 year old kid


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:


> paging equationgirl


Maths + tortured muso + teenage girl = story with no happy ending


----------



## Firky (Sep 30, 2012)

Anyway, you like Tragic Street Whingers.


----------



## laptop (Sep 30, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Composed by Shostakovich!


 
Bach.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:


> ok then, how do you think his barrister is going to frame the defence for what hes done?



If he has any sense it will be that he is an immature dick head as shown by his blog, song's and actions..


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 30, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> The stuff I'm finding on google images definitely ain't it. Looks like Shippams (at least these days) comes in a jar.
> 
> We used to get squidgy plastic tubes of the stuff. Sainsbury's own brand, I think.
> 
> These days, my sister only feeds my niece super-organic freedom food; I sometimes wonder if she ever thinks back to what we were fed


 
Liver sausage was what came in the plastic tubes. Meat paste came in jars.


----------



## Firky (Sep 30, 2012)

Bwoh!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Liver sausage was what came in the plastic tubes. Meat paste came in jars.


Did liver sausage have a squidgy, pate-like consistency?

We used to be able to squeeze the meat paste tube, and it'd come out like toothpaste. (Well, I say 'we,' my sister for the most part ). We, certainly, called it meat paste. And (going by my mum's shopping habits) I'd wager it was Sainsbury's own-brand.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 30, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Did liver sausage have a squidgy, pate-like consistency?
> 
> We used to be able to squeeze the meat paste tube, and it'd come out like toothpaste. (Well, I say 'we,' my sister for the most part ). We, certainly, called it meat paste. And (going by my mum's shopping habits) I'd wager it was Sainsbury's own-brand.


 
It was deffo liver sausage*. The main brand was Methesons, but Sainsbury and Resco both did their own-brand efforts.

*Obviously, it wasn't anything like proper _leberwurst_, it was spreadable, for a start!


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2012)

firky said:


> So autism means someone is mental now, ffs.


Indeed.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:


> lighten up, I have people in my life with mental health problems. I'm just trying to establish the difference between illness and behaviours that are immoral


 
By being offensive and immature in your characterisations of people and of different _conditions_?

How is that working out for you so far?


----------



## weepiper (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:


> probably say his wife drove him to it. I think the fact this has been dragged through the media is by far the most damaging thing to of arisen like FL said.


 
You think 'my wife made me run off with one of my underage pupils' is a reasonable defence?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

weepiper said:


> You think 'my wife made me run off with one of my underage pupils' is a reasonable defence?


 
If his wife was Winnie Mandela...


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 30, 2012)

IC3D said:


> probably say his wife drove him to it. I think the fact this has been dragged through the media is by far the most damaging thing to of arisen like FL said.


That's insulting to her, for one thing, and more likely down to his immaturity and generally twattish behaviour. Plus I don't think the courts will view it favourably.

He'd do well to man up (something he should have done long before now), admit what he's done and take a plea so it doesn't get to court. At least have the decency to spare both his wife and Megan the humiliation of appearing in court.


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 30, 2012)

well aside from the nonce-list we have the beginnings of a posters-who-appear-not-to-have-a-clue-about-mental-illness list shaping up pretty well here too


----------



## Badgers (Sep 30, 2012)

equationgirl said:
			
		

> That's insulting to her, for one thing, and more likely down to his immaturity and generally twattish behaviour. Plus I don't think the courts will view it favourably.
> 
> He'd do well to man up (something he should have done long before now), admit what he's done and take a plea so it doesn't get to court. At least have the decency to spare both his wife and Megan the humiliation of appearing in court.



Would his wife be needed in court?


----------



## Espresso (Sep 30, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> That's insulting to her, for one thing, and more likely down to his immaturity and generally twattish behaviour. Plus I don't think the courts will view it favourably.
> 
> He'd do well to man up (something he should have done long before now), admit what he's done and take a plea so it doesn't get to court. At least have the decency to spare both his wife and Megan the humiliation of appearing in court.


 
If I was his wife, the chances of me going to court would be completely nil.
Edit to add: Of my own volition. I'd have to go if I was called as a witness. Bloodyhellfire. What a ghastly thought.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 30, 2012)

I don't think we have 'pleas' in the UK anyway. He'll still go to court, just won't have a trial.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 30, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Would his wife be needed in court?


She could be called to testify to his general behaviour before he went on the trip to France, or how he had behaved on his return from the LA trip, or even the general state of their marriage. In any case, to have one's private and intimate relationship shown in public would be humiliating, especially because of the vulture tabloid press reporting every single detail.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 30, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> well aside from the nonce-list we have the beginnings of a posters-who-appear-not-to-have-a-clue-about-mental-illness list shaping up pretty well here too


Yes, sadly.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 30, 2012)

The fact that his behaviour was so unbelivably stupid its bordering illness because most people cant imagine being so fucking stupid.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 30, 2012)

likesfish said:


> The fact that his behaviour was so unbelivably stupid its bordering illness because most people cant imagine being so fucking stupid.


But that doesn't make him 'mentally ill'. He may claim he got carried away but basically he's acted like a teenager and been an immature twat.


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

This trend to medicalise and pathologise all "problematic" behaviours is something that gets well on my tits.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> This trend to *medicalise* and *pathologise* all "problematic" behaviours is something that gets well on my tits.


 
I feel the same about the trend of verbing nouns


----------



## wayward bob (Sep 30, 2012)

likesfish said:


> The fact that his behaviour was so unbelivably stupid its bordering illness because most people cant imagine being so fucking stupid.


 
stupid =/= illness, ffs


----------



## hegley (Sep 30, 2012)

weepiper said:


> You think 'my wife made me run off with one of my underage pupils' is a reasonable defence?


No, but "my wife made me have Sylvanian Families figurines on our wedding cake" might.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 30, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Edited. Not going to comment on this any more no matter how drunk I get.


Lol. You're desperate to comment, despite several denials and promises not to demean yourself. Go on, say it. You know you want to.


----------



## elbows (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> This trend to medicalise and pathologise all "problematic" behaviours is something that gets well on my tits.


 
I'm sure there is a label and a pill for that, indexing is half the cure


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

elbows said:


> I'm sure there is a label and a pill for that, indexing is half the cure


 
Medical Oppositional/Defiance Disorder, expect it in the DSM-V-TR.


----------



## elbows (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Medical Oppositional/Defiance Disorder, expect it in the DSM-V-TR.


 
Already done the online quiz that allows you to self-diagnose this condition?


----------



## Espresso (Sep 30, 2012)

hegley said:


> No, but "my wife made me have Sylvanian Families figurines on our wedding cake" might.


 
I think a lot of married men put up with all manner of completely ridiculous tripe on their wedding day, though. If that was a defence for running off with bits of kids before your first wedding anniversary, practically everyone would be divorced.


----------



## elbows (Sep 30, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> But that doesn't make him 'mentally ill'. He may claim he got carried away but basically he's acted like a teenager and been an immature twat.


 
I suspect one of the reasons this subject went wrong on this thread is that the term aspie has entered the public imagination a bit too dramatically or crudely. Breaking taboos and increasing understanding is good, but it comes with a downside that I will sum up using the word flippant.

I remain quite fascinated by the imagined cutoff points between mental illness and 'immature twat'. With a few of the right established clinical indicators, 'immature twat' could easily become a personality disorder of one sort or another.

But when judging people who have committed something commonly agreed upon as wrong, there are so many different labels that could be used, and they invariably seem to say more about the labeller than the person being labelled:

Evil
Bad
Sad
Mad
Stupid
Cupid
Twat
Arsehat etc


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I feel the same about the trend of verbing nouns


 
Funny, because I'm complaining about the nouning of verbs.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Funny, because I'm complaining about the nouning of verbs.


 
You mean gerunds?


----------



## Bakunin (Sep 30, 2012)

I wasn't aware that being a mental and an aspie implied any tendencies towards perverse or otherwise socially objectionable conduct.



revol68 said:


> This trend to medicalise and pathologise all "problematic" behaviours is something that gets well on my tits.


 
And your psychiatric/psychology qualifications, clinical knowledge and/or first hand life experience are..?


----------



## revol68 (Sep 30, 2012)

Bakunin said:


> I wasn't aware that being a mental and an aspie implied any tendencies towards perverse or otherwise socially objectionable conduct.
> 
> 
> 
> And your psychiatric/psychology qualifications, clinical knowledge and/or first hand life experience are..?


 
Enough to pick up on a trend towards the objectification of complex social problems and issues into discrete medically managed disorders.

You do realise that psychiatric/psychology qualifications being the first thing you asked of only underlines my point about medicalisation of complex social issues.

Well done you.


----------



## Red Cat (Sep 30, 2012)

likesfish said:


> The fact that his behaviour was so unbelivably stupid its bordering illness because most people cant imagine being so fucking stupid.


 

Except that as mrs quod and louloubelle pointed out the other day, the potential for these kinds of relationship is well known in other similar situations like psychotherapy, drug work, nursing, the difference being that in psychotherapy the possibility is acknowledged and thought about in order to minimise acting out. Not acknowledging how sexually charged secondary schools are and how easy it may be to fall into acting out something like that is the stupidity here. I think people _can_ imagine, not of running away with a 15 year old, but because we all have fantasies of the forbidden, of being swept off our feet, of an uncomplicated but all-consuming love, hence the moral outrage. I think he's probably a pretty ordinary bloke who has royally fucked up rather than someone who is 'not like us'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 30, 2012)

he only had to wait a year till she left school and he'd just have been thought a bit of a dirty bastard but no. Une grande romance to france.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 30, 2012)

revol68 said:


> If his wife was Winnie Mandela...


Tbf this had a much better outcome for the kidnapped child than any Winnie had abducted...


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 30, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I don't think we have 'pleas' in the UK anyway. He'll still go to court, just won't have a trial.


 
We have pleas, not plea bargains... early guilty plea for lesser sentence is as good as it gets, usually.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Sep 30, 2012)

Dandred said:


> You mean gerunds?


----------



## laptop (Sep 30, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> We have pleas, not plea bargains... early guilty plea for lesser sentence is as good as it gets, usually.


 
In theory and in law, yes. But, though it's not strictly legal, prosecutors may be interested in the question "and to _what_ would you like me to plead guilty?"


----------



## scifisam (Sep 30, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> he only had to wait a year till she left school and he'd just have been thought a bit of a dirty bastard but no. Une grande romance to france.


 
Only if either she or he had left the school. Tsk, you know this!


----------



## catinthehat (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> This trend to medicalise and pathologise all "problematic" behaviours is something that gets well on my tits.


I nod furiously at this - I had a request for extra time in exams under the category 'health' stating that the person has a tendency to daydream.  I don't doubt that inability to focus may be part of a range of symptoms associated with health problems but daydreaming ?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 1, 2012)

catinthehat said:


> I nod furiously at this - I had a request for extra time in exams under the category 'health' stating that the person has a tendency to daydream. I don't doubt that inability to focus may be part of a range of symptoms associated with health problems but daydreaming ?


Of course  there are genuine cases where difficulty in concentrating happens for whatever reason, and obviously that can't be helped. My annoyance with this type of thing is that sometimes it seems that the person is trying to abdicate responsibility for their actions through labelling such behaviours. 

With the case in point, this person has clearly behaved irresponsibly and abused his position as a teacher. At best he has been immature and got carried away with the 'romance' of the situation, at worst he was predatory. Either way, I struggle to accept that these actions are the actions of someone with a 'personality disorder'.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 1, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I don't think we have 'pleas' in the UK anyway. He'll still go to court, just won't have a trial.


 
In UK court, people don't plead guilty or not guilty?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 1, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> But that doesn't make him 'mentally ill'. He may claim he got carried away but basically he's acted like a teenager and been an immature twat.


 
He might also be mentally ill, though.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> This trend to medicalise and pathologise all "problematic" behaviours is something that gets well on my tits.


 
...because some people are just born bad. The Bad Seeds amongst us.


----------



## scifisam (Oct 1, 2012)

catinthehat said:


> I nod furiously at this - I had a request for extra time in exams under the category 'health' stating that the person has a tendency to daydream. I don't doubt that inability to focus may be part of a range of symptoms associated with health problems but daydreaming ?


 
One of the allowances my daughter gets under her IEP is essentially because she daydreams, and by that I mean daydreams much more than expected of her age group. She needs someone to literally nudge her or she forgets where she is.

Her ks2 practice SATs were lower than expected because she went off into her own world then doodled on the paper - I think for English, where she excelled, it was something like 'I like pies! They are lovely.' With many beautiful pictures of pies. It may have been pizza or even curry. It had wings because she got carried away in the drawing.

For maths, she answered the first couple of questions correctly then wrote a story about the number 3 and how it felt so odd. 

She was ten years old and had no recollection, ten minutes later, of taking a test.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 1, 2012)

scifisam said:


> One of the allowances my daughter gets under her IEP is essentially because she daydreams, and by that I mean daydreams much more than expected of her age group. She needs someone to literally nudge her or she forgets where she is.
> 
> Her ks2 practice SATs were lower than expected because she went off into her own world then doodled on the paper - I think for English, where she excelled, it was something like 'I like pies! They are lovely.' With many beautiful pictures of pies. It may have been pizza or even curry. It had wings because she got carried away in the drawing.
> 
> ...


 
That sounds like a little more than daydreaming.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 1, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> He might also be mentally ill, though.


Why?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 1, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Why?


 
I don't understand your question?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 1, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> I don't understand your question?


Why might he be mentally ill? 

Have you read the rest of the thread, including the past few pages where this has already been covered?


----------



## scifisam (Oct 1, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> That sounds like a little more than daydreaming.


 
It is, but for the purposes of people overseeing exams, that's all they might see. Basically, given that we do all daydream, I doubt anyone has daydreaming written in as their special snowflake disability without it being a little more involved than that.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 1, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Why might he be mentally ill?
> 
> Have you read the rest of the thread, including the past few pages where this has already been covered?


 
There are a number of possible explanation for antisocial behavior. One of them is mental illness.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Oct 1, 2012)

scifisam said:


> It is, but for the purposes of people overseeing exams, that's all they might see. Basically, given that we do all daydream, I doubt anyone has daydreaming written in as their special snowflake disability without it being a little more involved than that.


 
Sure, but if, for example, my kid had ADD, I wouldn't be too happy to see 'daydreams a lot' written into their school record as an explanation for their behavior.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 1, 2012)

Apparently, Rod Liddle has said this in the lastest spectator (reprinted here http://shirazsocialist.wordpress.co...tely-conceive-of-not-trying-to-shag-the-kids/):



> _“I never found out_ [what sort of teacher I'd be] _because the one thing stopping me from being a teacher was that I could not remotely conceive of not trying to shag the kids. It seemed to me to be virtually impossible not to, and I was convinced that I’d be right in there, on day one. We’re talking secondry school level here, by the way – and even then *I don’t think I’d have dabbled much below year ten, as it is now called*. I just thought we ought to clear that up early on. At my old comprehensive school a few teachers were known to be schtupping the pupils: one of them, a female teacher who was extremely foxy in a Pot Noodle scuzzy kind of way — she copped off with some fifth-form lad, and another teacher (a man with a guitar and a faux rebellious attitude) gained the affections of an extremely attractive fourth-form girl. As pupils, we didn’t remotely mind about this and both teachers were very popular. But I knew, when I was considering my career options, that this sort of behaviour was definitely frowned upon by the authorities and that I would not last the week in my new job. Frowned upon, although not much more, I ought to say — certainly not the deranged howling that is kicked up these days, the fury and the righteous anger.”_


 
Students start year ten aged 14 don't they? They are apparently fair game for Liddle, in fact, he's prepared to 'dabble' not much below - 13, 12? If the above was actually said by Rod Liddle he basically admitted to wanting to rape children. And Britain's number 1 tory magazine endorsed this through publication.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2012)

Ron liddle is basically an excuse where a human being should be. I'm not suprised he freely admits to having paedophilic urges. Of course he's just dong it for effect, to keep up the liddle outrage brand. But from now on, he's on the register


----------



## Fruitloop (Oct 1, 2012)

> In foraging cultures, everyone agrees that some people are sexier than others, and the sexpots are usually young women and prestigious men. Yanomamo men, for example, say that the most desirable women are _moko dudei_, an expression that when applied to fruit means perfectly ripe and when applied to women means between fifteen and seventeen years old. When shown slides, Western observers of both sexes agree with the Yanomamo men that the _moko dudei_ women are the most attractive.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 1, 2012)

The only thing more revolting than kiddy fiddlers is apologists for them. Ugh.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 1, 2012)

It is important to distinguish between pre- and post-pubescent, though. Two very different things.


----------



## IC3D (Oct 1, 2012)

There is a good case for having kids at 15 though, you get to be unburdened in your late 30's and enjoy life free of the angst of youth, plus maths teachers can get some responsiblity and grow up a little.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

The fact its possible to find a girl of 15 sexually attractive is not the problem, it doesnt make you a nonce, its acting on it that is the issue. A morality that declares that having an immoral urge and acting on it as the same is actually devoid of morality, which requires you to resist doing something you know to be wrong despite having an urge to do so, it's just basic Kant init. The fact we live in a consumerist culture that encourages the indulgence of all desires is paradoxically responsible for a hysterical morality were the admission of immoral urges is seen as being little different than acting on them, consumerism meets catholicism.

And to the compilers of "the list" I say I am not a nonce, honest.


----------



## Fruitloop (Oct 1, 2012)

IC3D said:


> There is a good case for having kids at 15 though, you get to be unburdened in your late 30's and enjoy life free of the angst of youth, plus maths teachers can get some responsiblity and grow up a little.


I definitely think this is the case. It might be better to have kids first and then study later, rather than (in my case certainly) study when you have boundless energy and sex on the brain, then have kids when you're studious and just want to sit down all the time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2012)

'I think the point here is that a right wing oaf with a line in shock-jock style faux opinions is making hay with this story. I want his PC checked.


----------



## Fruitloop (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> The fact its possible to find a girl of 15 sexually attractive is not the problem, it doesnt make you a nonce, its acting on it that is the issue. A morality that declares that having an immoral urge and acting on it as the same is actually devoid of morality, which requires you to resist doing something you know to be wrong despite having an urge to do so, it's just basic Kant init. The fact we live in a consumerist culture that encourages the indulgence of all desires is paradoxically responsible for a hysterical morality were the admission of immoral urges is seen as being little different than acting on them, consumerism meets catholicism.
> 
> And to the compilers of "the list" I say I am not a nonce, honest.


Indeed. It's basically the construction of a taboo, in that if your aim is to produce subjects incapable of impulse control, i.e. with the incontinent desires of the model consumer, then you still have to restrain behaviour around some particular corner cases, and the only way left to do it is to restrain the impulse itself as a taboo, which is why the issue is not just coincidentally but necessarily hysterical.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> The fact its possible to find a girl of 15 sexually attractive is not the problem, it doesnt make you a nonce, its acting on it that is the issue. A morality that declares that having an immoral urge and acting on it as the same is actually devoid of morality, which requires you to resist doing something you know to be wrong despite having an urge to do so, it's just basic Kant init. The fact we live in a consumerist culture that encourages the indulgence of all desires is paradoxically responsible for a hysterical morality were the admission of immoral urges is seen as being little different than acting on them, consumerism meets catholicism.


 
Technically it's the sexual attraction itself that constitutes paedophilia, but yes, it's only when it's acted upon that it becomes a legal and moral issue. What Liddle's piece does though is seek to justify both the sexual attraction to kids and acting on that attraction. He's endorsing the sexual exploitation of children by adults and presenting it as natural.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 1, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I want his PC checked.


Rod Liddle - first in line for the PC brigade.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Technically it's the sexual attraction itself that constitutes paedophilia, but yes, it's only when it's acted upon that it becomes a legal and moral issue. What Liddle's piece does though is seek to justify both the sexual attraction to kids and acting on that attraction. He's endorsing the sexual exploitation of children by adults and presenting it as natural.



Yes but attraction to prepubescents is paedophilia not simply anyone under the age of consent.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

Cup cake tattoos, skinny jean, crystal castles and hello kitty hand bags are a turn off whatever their age.

It's a while since I worked as a barman but the hardest underage drinkers to spot were the lasses, push-up bras, skirts that barely concealed their arse, acres of flesh on display and all presented with highly sexually charged drunken confidence. It would be quite intimidating. They uusally gave the game away by asking for blue WKD with a peach schnaps in.

Anyone who has seen a lass on the Instagram website pulling a duck pose in her bathroom mirror and thought, "ding dong" is a nonce BTW.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yes but attraction to prepubescents is paedophilia not simply anyone under the age of consent.


 
I thought you had a job interview ?


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

TEENAGE GIRLS OPPRESSING WHITE MEN THROUGH THEIR SEX


----------



## kebabking (Oct 1, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> The only thing more revolting than kiddy fiddlers is apologists for them. Ugh.


 
depends on what you mean by 'kiddy-fiddlers', and what you mean by 'apologist'.

it is a biological fact that an adult male will be attrached to an attractive Adolescent girl because she looks like a woman. she in fact is almost certainly a woman - she is physically developed to be able to have sex, concieve, bear and nurse children.

merely saying, over and over again, that over 16 good, under 16 bad, (and only you'll notice, for about 4 generations) does not change perhaps several thousand generations of HomoSapiens, and before that, Homowhatever, knowledge and practice that a 15 yo female, a 14 yo female, and perhaps even a 13yo female, with breasts, hips and pubic hair, is a woman. you (and i) may not like that, but it doesn't stop it being true.

now, as the father of two daughters, i think that the age of consent should be 'when i'm dead and buried', but i'm not quite stupid enough to believe that just because i say that its a bit dodgy to be attracted to a girl/woman before she reaches the age of 16, or as i'd now prefer, 96, will stop it being 'natural', in the same way that putting one leg in front of the other is natural, or the 'fight or flight' reflex is natural.


----------



## Fruitloop (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> Anyone who has seen a lass on the Instagram website pulling a duck pose in her bathroom mirror and thought, "ding dong" is a nonce BTW.


 
I think that's me in the clear then, because I find them a bit like the unpracticed, slightly embarassed poses in early erotica; kind of endearing and painful in equal amounts.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 1, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Technically it's the sexual attraction itself that constitutes paedophilia, but yes, it's only when it's acted upon that it becomes a legal and moral issue. What Liddle's piece does though is seek to justify both the sexual attraction to kids and acting on that attraction. He's endorsing the sexual exploitation of children by adults and presenting it as natural.


Again, important to distinguish between pre- and post-pubescent. If 'is potentially sexually attracted to 15-year-old girls' is the definition of paedophile, I would think that the vast majority of heterosexual men would have to plead guilty.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> tattoos, skinny jean and crystal castles are a turn on whatever their age.



Fixed! 

The coffee shop im sitting in is playing crystal castles at this very moment. Alice Glass is teh shit btw.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 1, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Again, important to distinguish between pre- and post-pubescent. If 'is potentially sexually attracted to 15-year-old girls' is the definition of paedophile, I would think that the vast majority of heterosexual men would have to plead guilty.


 
Point taken on the first sentence, but speak for yourself on the second.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> I thought you had a job interview ?



Done it, turns out it was an assesment, passed it and have the interview for tomo now. Hopefully ill soon be helping O2 and Sky customers with stupid questions.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

I dunno, I can recognise a lass as being attractive without having sexual thoughts. It's quite within either sexes ability to recognise the shared aesthetics of attractiveness in either sex. Justin Beiber is obviously a handsome kid for his age, Kara Hayward is obviously a pretty lass for her age, that does not mean I want to copulate with either of them.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2012)

one by one they out themselves


----------



## Fruitloop (Oct 1, 2012)

Didn't know who Kara Hayward was, but apparently if you type her name into Google the first two autocomplete entries relate to her age.

I wonder why?


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Done it, turns out it was an assesment, passed it and have the interview for tomo now. Hopefully ill soon be helping O2 and Sky customers with stupid questions.


 
Best of luck, am not gonna patronise you with saying it's a job and a stepping stone, you know all that shit. Just don't go into the interview with you SKull Candy headphones on, eh?


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> one by one they out themselves





firky said:


> I dunno, I can recognise a lass as being attractive without having sexual thoughts. It's quite within either sexes ability to recognise the shared aesthetics of attractiveness in either sex. Justin Beiber is obviously a handsome kid for his age, Kara Hayward is obviously a pretty lass for her age, that does not mean I want to copulate with either of them.



Well there is that, however there are 15 year olds that if you werent told were 15 you could mistake for 20. Beiber is a bad example cos he is very young looking, some of the posh rugger buggers I see knocking around belfast look about 30 but are actually in 6th form, sone of them are balding ffs.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

I am the same age as you revol and get told I look about 18, 21 and the most 



Fruitloop said:


> I think that's me in the clear then, because I find them a bit like the unpracticed, slightly embarassed poses in early erotica; kind of endearing and painful in equal amounts.


 
Duck pouts and gun fingers


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2012)

thirty in feb, still ID'd for tabs

never get cougared tho


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 1, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Again, important to distinguish between pre- and post-pubescent. If 'is potentially sexually attracted to 15-year-old girls' is the definition of paedophile, I would think that the vast majority of heterosexual men would have to plead guilty.


 
I know you added the 'vast majority' caveat, but very much not guilty here and I bet I'm very far from alone. As a generalisation, I find very young women/girls horrendously loud and immature, not to mention their outrageous   tendancy to talk (or more often shout) the foreign language of youth. And youthboys are just as bad if not worse, on buses, trains, in gangs, etc. University age students are rarely any better IMO.

I suppose I never encounter the more grown up-ish ones.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

Fruitloop said:


> Didn't know who Kara Hayward was, but apparently if you type her name into Google the first two autocomplete entries relate to her age.
> 
> I wonder why?



I dunno what firky is talking about, she's not very pretty (jesus, thats a terrible thing to say about a child).

I can see why her age is a common google search, she has a much older looking face.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> thirty in feb, still ID'd for tabs
> 
> never get cougared tho


 

Great aint it? 

But mortally embarrassing when they laugh and show your ID to the other tiller and have a laugh at your boyish features, "eeehh, look sal' at this lad, have you ever seen such a youngun?"

Yeh, yeh, fuck off and give my rizla.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> I am the same age as you revol and get told I look about 18, 21 and the most
> 
> 
> 
> Duck pouts and gun fingers



Yeah yeah I get mistaken for a student all the time (and not just cos i look like a cunt) and thats with a full beard, if i shavedid look like a child.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Sorry but I think attempts to paint him as "unhinged" or actually "insane" are bollocks, what he has done is simply on a spectrum of the kind of daft and idiotic things everyone does in "romantic relations", the problem is he did it with a 15 year old student he was teaching, ergo the issue is that he should have known better and that from failing to keep his feelings in line he carried out a clear breach of trust and authority. That doesn't make him insane, it's makes him an immature dickhead, something that is obvious from his blog and songs.


 
Picked up on these revol comments earlier and I completely agree I think ...


----------



## Fruitloop (Oct 1, 2012)

I used to be like that, then I had kids. Now they just say 'rough night eh?' and hand over the grog


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> I dunno what firky is talking about, she's not very pretty (jesus, thats a terrible thing to say about a child).
> 
> I can see why her age is a common google search, she has a much older looking face.


 
She's the kid in Moonrise Kingdom, she does look older than her age but lasses often do look older than their male counterparts. Boys are often slower to grow up, emotionally and physically. Doesn't puberty kick in later or slower in boys than girls?


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I know you added the 'vast majority' caveat, but very much not guilty here and I bet I'm very far from alone. As a generalisation, I find very young women/girls horrendously loud and immature, not to mention their outrageous   tendancy to talk (or more often shout) the foreign language of youth. And youthboys are just as bad if not worse, on buses, trains, in gangs, etc. University age students are rarely any better IMO.
> 
> I suppose I never encounter the more grown up-ish ones.



Your trouble is you arent standing far enough away from the playground or havent invested in earphones


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:


> Yeah yeah I get mistaken for a student all the time (and not just cos i look like a cunt) and thats with a full beard, if i shavedid look like a child.


 
Least you can grow a beard you cunt, the best I can manage is shit goaty. I may as well get a pierced septum and look like a complete cunt.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> She's the kid in Moonrise Kingdom, she does look older than her age but lasses often do look older than their male counterparts. Boys are often slower to grow up, emotionally and physically. Doesn't puberty kick in later or slower in boys than girls?



It sure did for me, fucking 16 and looking like a 12 year old girl with my shite attempt at kurt cobain curtains.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 1, 2012)

revol68 said:
			
		

> Your trouble is you arent standing far enough away from the playground or havent invested in earphones


 
I avoid schools and playgrounds. That and holding opinion such as that you quoted are part of my deeply effective cover strategy


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 1, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I know you added the 'vast majority' caveat, but very much not guilty here and I bet I'm very far from alone. As a generalisation, I find very young women/girls horrendously loud and immature, not to mention their outrageous   tendancy to talk (or more often shout) the foreign language of youth. And youthboys are just as bad if not worse, on buses, trains, in gangs, etc. University age students are rarely any better IMO.
> 
> I suppose I never encounter the more grown up-ish ones.


 
Me too, I don't think I have met a 'mature' young lady between the age of 16 and 20 at the very least. When I was at university (I was officially a mature student) the 20 year olds were pretty much intolerable.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 1, 2012)

kebabking said:


> depends on what you mean by 'kiddy-fiddlers', and what you mean by 'apologist'.
> 
> it is a biological fact that an adult male will be attrached to an attractive Adolescent girl because she looks like a woman. she in fact is almost certainly a woman - she is physically developed to be able to have sex, concieve, bear and nurse children.


 
Yeah but most 30 year old men have the wisdom to just not go there whatever they think or feel.  They must do 'coz this kind of incident, isn't _that_ common is it? He didn't use his wisdom did he?  I mean he could've waited?  But he sounds (from what his father said in the press), like he hasn't been in a good place for a while and if you're not in a good way, then maybe you're gonna make bad/odd choices.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 1, 2012)

the ghost of fencingnonce lives on


----------



## Fruitloop (Oct 1, 2012)

He is clearly a hapless man-child with no capacity for reflection or prudence. A _Bildungsroman _as yet unstarted. The problem is that they are fucking legion.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 1, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> Yeah but most 30 year old men have the wisdom to just not go there whatever they think or feel. They must do 'coz this kind of incident, isn't _that_ common is it? He didn't use his wisdom did he? I mean he could've waited? But he sounds (from what his father said in the press), like he hasn't been in a good place for a while and if you're not in a good way, then maybe you're gonna make bad/odd choices.


 
i agree entirely about _this case_, which, to me, appears to be about a socially/emotionally under-developed man who's in the wrong job, and who's bosses appear to have been astonishly bad at noticing he's in the wrong job and doing anything about it.

however, this case doesn't, for me, have much bearing on the whole issue because of the specifics of it - the fact that he's her teacher, and therefore has responsibility for her - whereas had the case been about a 'normal' guy who met her in a bar, or lived in the same road, or whatever, then it would have been much more about 'sexually developed man has fling with sexually developed woman' rather than 'teacher runs off with pupil'.

the issue i have with the 'whether its a good idea to shag a 15yo' concept is thats based on, in biological terms, a false construct. its about his job, whether he'll go to prison etc.. none of which addresses the idea of whether its 'natural' for an adult male to want to have sex - not a conversation, or a relationship, or be forced to meet her dreadful friends - just sex, with what _looks like_ an adult female.

as a tangent, i find it interesting to note that on the same day she was 'rescued' from a situation where she was the child and completely unable to give consent to travel through europe or sleep with him based on he age, a 14 yo girl was charged with Murder...


----------



## likesfish (Oct 1, 2012)

She might look like an adult but she isnt and he should have had the functioning brainpower of a gnat to remove himself from the situation..
 Rod liddle shoud not be heading for gitmo for that article he should be heading there for being rod liddle.
    Water boarding is probably to good for  him but i,m perpared to spoil him


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> I am the same age as you revol and get told I look about 18, 21 and the most


 
They are just being kind, what they mean is you act like a 18-21.


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 1, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Me too, I don't think I have met a 'mature' young lady between the age of 16 and 20 at the very least. When I was at university (I was officially a mature student) the 20 year olds were pretty much intolerable.


 
I had a 19 year-old friend, when I was 38 & single following the break-up of a 10-year relationship, and she was very mature for her age, great fun to take out for the day, or an evening followed by discussing how to put the world to rights into the early hours.

Sadly the friendship went wrong after one night, she had opened-up about her father being physically abusive towards her mother & her - it broke my heart listening to all this for a good 2 or 3 hours, before we headed off to bed.

And, before you raise your eyebrows, she was staying in my spare room, as she often did.

What happened next was totally unexpected, as I came out the bathroom she was stood in the door-way of the spare room in just a throng & very small top, she grabbed me and hugged me, I assumed thanking me for being a good listener, but then she took a couple of steps backwards and pulled me on top of her as she fell onto the bed, before kissing me.

I freaked, wriggled free, wished her good night, and headed to my room.

I confess I stayed awake for an hour or more wondering if I had done the right thing, wondering if she was still awake, wondering if I would be welcomed if I returned to the spare room.

But, somehow it just didn't seem right to me, despite her being both mature & legal, oh, and bloody attractive too.

In the morning she thanked me for last night, I assumed for not taking advantage as such although she didn't actually say that, and I felt reassured that I had done the right thing.

From then on the friendship sort of died, she never did spend another night, which sadden me, and I have to confess whenever I think about it, even now almost 12 years on, I wonder if I actually did do the right thing.

I think I did, but I am far from sure at times.

Not sure how this fits in here, apart from my gut feeling at the time that it wasn't right to get that involved in someone half my age, or at least not when they were still in their teens, perhaps I could overcome that now with a willing 25-year-old, if I wasn't with, and happy with, my current OH.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 1, 2012)

likesfish said:


> She might look like an adult but she isnt and he should have had the functioning brainpower of a gnat to remove himself from the situation.


Not only her but the massive amount of suffering that their respective families have had to go through because of this.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 1, 2012)

Dandred said:


> You mean gerunds?


 
Are you accusing him of fancying old people?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 1, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> the ghost of fencingnonce lives on


 Poor froggie, still tainted by the memory of old noncey-chops.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 1, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> They are just being kind, what they mean is you act like a 18-21.


 
That mature, eh?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 1, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> I had a 19 year-old friend, when I was 38 & single following the break-up of a 10-year relationship, and she was very mature for her age, great fun to take out for the day, or an evening followed by discussing how to put the world to rights into the early hours.
> 
> Sadly the friendship went wrong after one night, she had opened-up about her father being physically abusive towards her mother & her - it broke my heart listening to all this for a good 2 or 3 hours, before we headed off to bed.
> 
> ...


 

I think you did the right thing in not acting on that night after she had opened up to you about an abusive father, but you should have maybe mentioned this at the time.

If she seemed mature enough to you, and you were good friends then I can see no harm. However, the age thing did freak you out so it was a factor. I would have asked to take it slow and told her exactly what you thought (ie she was attractive, you did like her, but were worried about the age gap etc etc) with no sexy contact.
Leaving her to mull over 'making a fool of herself' probably wasn't such a good idea, but I wasn't there so I can't really comment on anything other than what I read on the page.


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 1, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Leaving her to mull over 'making a fool of herself' probably wasn't such a good idea, but I wasn't there so I can't really comment on anything other than what I read on the page.


 
Oh, I don't like I left her feeling like that, or perhaps I did. 

Over breakfast, the conversation seemed to me that she was pleased I hadn't taken advantage when she had been feeling upset over her father, and I re-assured her I was there for her, etc. - can't remember the exact details TBH, but she seemed chirpy enough.

As she did the next few times we went out, even if she didn't stay over, but then the friendship started to cool.

OK, we had drunk a fair bit, smoked some spliffs and done some coke, but that wasn't unusual, and nothing like that had come near to happening before, so I put it down to her being upset talking about her father and looking for even more comforting then I had given when she was pouring out her heart.

I thought she was cool about it, but on reflection maybe not. 

Anyway, whatever, I still wouldn't, hand on heart, feel right in having developed the relationship beyond just being friends, not with that age gap, I just hope I didn't leave her feeling she had made a fool of herself.

I wish I hadn't posted that previous post now, 12 years on and now I am feeling fucking guilty.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 1, 2012)

Don't, sounds like you did the right thing.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 1, 2012)

Don't feel guilty, you'd have felt worse if you took advantage of her. What's done is done. You did what you thought was best at the time.


----------



## Firky (Oct 1, 2012)

The list enters it's third volume


----------



## Dandred (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> The list enters it's third volume


 
Are we going to see this list?


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 1, 2012)

firky said:


> The list enters it's third volume


 
I hope that's not directed at me. 

Well, not over the above, perhaps it would be justfied over the OMG - I've just totally exposed myself to the 14-year old girl from next door thread.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 1, 2012)

harpo said:


> Pontins. I worked as a cleaner there in the 80s and what a shite place it was. There were no hoovers or proper cleaning stuff, everything had to be done with weird creams and scourers or stiff garden brushes. The 'chalets' were threadbare, tatty, dark and grim and I had a weird itchy rash for the few weeks I stuck the job. God I used to feel sorry for people who actually paid money to stay in the skanky hovels. Surely nobody ever went back twice.


 
Seems they have not raised their game! 



> Three police officers were taken to hospital following a fight involving up to 20 people at a holiday park. The first two Pcs on the scene at Pontin's in Camber, East Sussex were attacked by the group just after 13:30 BST on Saturday, Sussex Police said. Captor spray had to be used by the officers to control and disperse the group, who ran off into the site.


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-19789066


----------



## revol68 (Oct 1, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Oh, I don't like I left her feeling like that, or perhaps I did.
> 
> Over breakfast, the conversation seemed to me that she was pleased I hadn't taken advantage when she had been feeling upset over her father, and I re-assured her I was there for her, etc. - can't remember the exact details TBH, but she seemed chirpy enough.
> 
> ...


 
Bone her!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 1, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> thirty in feb, still ID'd for tabs
> 
> never get cougared tho


 
I'm fucking 34 and I still get ID'd for booze occasionally. And if it means what I think then I have been cougared - more often than not at the hands of Pauline Calf lookalikes with forearms a hod carrier would be proud of. Which is fine by me - all women are beautiful and I'm just grateful for the attention 

E2A: By all women I mean actual women above the age of consent, cross me off that list ffs


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 1, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm fucking 34 and I still get ID'd for booze occasionally. And if it means what I think then I have been cougared - more often than not at the hands of Pauline Calf lookalikes with forearms a hod carrier would be proud of. Which is fine by me - all women are beautiful and I'm just grateful for the attention
> 
> E2A: By all women I mean actual women above the age of consent, cross me off that list ffs


I'm 39 and I got done the other day.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 10, 2012)

Jezza is back on UK soil then


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 10, 2012)

Come back to face the music. Can't be as bad as his music is.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Oct 10, 2012)

He'll be gutted that Jimmy Savile has usurped him in the news.


----------



## Firky (Oct 10, 2012)

I don't get why he is covering up his face from from the cameras when the mug plastered it all over the internet.


----------



## wtfftw (Oct 10, 2012)

firky said:


> I don't get why he is covering up his from from the cameras when the mug plastered it all over the internet.


He's an idiot?


----------



## revol68 (Oct 10, 2012)

firky said:


> I don't get why he is covering up his face from from the cameras when the mug plastered it all over the internet.


 
symbolic expression of shame, which is atleast something.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2012)

firky said:


> I don't get why he is covering up his face from from the cameras when the mug plastered it all over the internet.


too little too late


----------



## Kanda (Oct 11, 2012)

> Jeremy Forrest, 30, was released from jail near Bordeaux, in the south-west of the country, yesterday, before boarding a flight to Gatwick after almost two weeks in prison.





> He has been charged with child abduction. He and the teenager -* who cannot be named for legal reasons* - disappeared from her home town of Eastbourne, East Sussex, on September 20, sparking a Europe-wide search.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2215644/Jeremy-Forrest-Married-maths-teacher-ran-away-15-year-old-pupil-charged-child-abduction.html#ixzz28zdL1tpA
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook




Comedy gold!!


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Oct 11, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Comedy gold!!


indeed


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 11, 2012)

Ah that Mail web page has now gone offline. I saw it earlier but now it is unavailable. What is going on, is the story changing, why is the girl's name that was on everyone's lips a few days ago now now being withheld for 'legal reasons'? These and many other questions will be ignored in the next episode,


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 11, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Ah that Mail web page has now gone offline. I saw it earlier but now it is unavailable. What is going on, is the story changing, why is the girl's name that was on everyone's lips a few days ago now now being withheld for 'legal reasons'? These and many other questions will be ignored in the next episode,


I suppose if nothing else it's a technicality. Ok, so maybe everyone knows her name, but the law doesn't really care about that and has to remain consistent for all that fall under its jurisdiction.


----------



## treelover (Oct 11, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Apparently, Rod Liddle has said this in the lastest spectator (reprinted here http://shirazsocialist.wordpress.co...tely-conceive-of-not-trying-to-shag-the-kids/):
> 
> 
> 
> Students start year ten aged 14 don't they? They are apparently fair game for Liddle, in fact, he's prepared to 'dabble' not much below - 13, 12? If the above was actually said by Rod Liddle he basically admitted to wanting to rape children. And Britain's number 1 tory magazine endorsed this through publication.


 

God, that man really is the pits, i'm surprised he still has a career, just shows how standards in the media have slipped, there were always 'robust' commentators, ''man of the people'' etc, but nothing like him in print*

though, maybe in RL...

btw, never snitched in my life, but i do wonder if its worth emailing the Yard about this...


----------



## laptop (Oct 11, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> I suppose if nothing else it's a technicality. Ok, so maybe everyone knows her name, but the law doesn't really care about that and has to remain consistent for all that fall under its jurisdiction.


 
This.

Trouble is, people may be led to come to (possibly false) conclusions about the nature of the (possibly additional) charges he may face, given the granting of a no-naming order.

Tough one for the judge. Grant an order simply because she's a minor, and risk that; or don't, and defeat the whole purpose of anonymity for minors and, er, some others.

Best respect it here, for legal reasons...


----------



## treelover (Oct 11, 2012)

btw, why is text disappearing when i quote something...


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 11, 2012)

Yes we had better call her 'Child A'


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 11, 2012)

laptop said:


> Trouble is, people may be led to come to (possibly false) conclusions about the nature of the (possibly additional) charges he may face, given the granting of a no-naming order.


Would they? How so? As in, they wouldn't have granted the no-naming order unless he did something worse?

As evidenced on other threads, my understanding of law is worse than the understanding of medicine I've gained through watching House.


----------



## laptop (Oct 11, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Would they? How so? As in, they wouldn't have granted the no-naming order unless he did something worse?


 
You may say that but I couldn't possibly comment 




Lord Camomile said:


> As evidenced on other threads, my understanding of law is worse than the understanding of medicine I've gained through watching House.


 
Try Rumpole?


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm not sure I fully understand this article:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.c8b2cec292dc2e8da0ab1f3ca8eb6a87.ba1

But it seems to be suggesting that Forrest can only be charged with things that're listed on the original European arrest warrant (really?) And that the UK's currently pressuring France to add sexual offences to the original arrest warrant charge sheet so's he can be charged with them, as well as child abduction.

(Maximum sentence 14yrs instead of 7).

e2a: 





> Existing European agreements stipulate that a suspect can only be tried on the charges listed in the arrest warrant.


----------



## scifisam (Nov 6, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> I suppose if nothing else it's a technicality. Ok, so maybe everyone knows her name, but the law doesn't really care about that and has to remain consistent for all that fall under its jurisdiction.



If they allowed her to be named now, it would mean that all such children would be at risk - get one publication to print the kid's name and then it's a free-for-all.


----------



## laptop (Nov 6, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> it seems to be suggesting that Forrest can only be charged with things that're listed on the original European arrest warrant


 
There'd be all sorts of potential for abuse if that weren't so. Extradite someone on a theft charge, try them under Official Secrets...

European Arrest Warrant not as oppressive as it's painted shock!


----------



## Fez909 (Nov 6, 2012)

laptop said:


> There'd be all sorts of potential for abuse if that weren't so. Extradite someone on a theft charge, try them under Official Secrets...
> 
> European Arrest Warrant not as oppressive as it's painted shock!


 
I don't understand this.  Surely if he's committed other crimes, then he can be charged for them?

Say I kill someone while robbing a bank then run off to Germany.  The arrest warrant is made for the robbery and I'm extradited to Britain and charged with the robbery.  I now can't be charged with the murder?


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 6, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> I don't understand this. Surely if he's committed other crimes, then he can be charged for them?
> 
> Say I kill someone while robbing a bank then run off to Germany. The arrest warrant is made for the robbery and I'm extradited to Britain and charged with the robbery. I now can't be charged with the murder?


Or other offences which subsequently come to light, presumably.

I'd guess that your example might be even more acutely illustrated if - for example - someone was grievously injured in an attack, but didn't die until after the arrest / extradition. Which'd mean that (presumably) without changes to the initial arrest warrant, which'd then have to be amended to reflect a situation that didn't exist at the time, someone could only be charged with certain species of assault. Or whatever.


----------



## laptop (Nov 6, 2012)

Fez909 said:


> Say I kill someone while robbing a bank then run off to Germany. The arrest warrant is made for the robbery and I'm extradited to Britain and charged with the robbery. I now can't be charged with the murder?


 
You can if the extraditing country's courts are convinced - which is what's happening here.

Consider the problem of various things that are offences in one country but not another - all those that come to mind are difficult cases that would distract attention from the point, though.


----------



## Fez909 (Nov 6, 2012)

laptop said:


> You can if the extraditing country's courts are convinced - which is what's happening here.
> 
> Consider the problem of various things that are offences in one country but not another - all those that come to mind are difficult cases that would distract attention from the point, though.


I'm pretty sure the reason they went to France in the first place was because what they planned wasn't illegal there, and the French were initially reluctant to look for them because of this, so it's pretty relevant to the story, but yes, not the point I was making.

I'm just having a hard time believing he can't be charged for anything else now without France agreeing to it. Gonna have to do some research.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 6, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I'm not sure I fully understand this article:
> 
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.c8b2cec292dc2e8da0ab1f3ca8eb6a87.ba1
> 
> ...


 
The article says:


> After hearing the young girl, who can not be named for legal reasons, a court in Maidstone, Kent, has asked that the warrant be changed to include sexual charges.​


So she's not protecting him then. He'll get a significant jail sentence in all likelihood.


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 20, 2012)

It's now apparently illegal to name the teenage girl who was involved, and who featured on the front page of every national newspaper for a good week. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-runaway-schoolgirl.html?ICO=most_read_module

E2a: though, staggeringly, the mail still has loads of archived articles with her full name in them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Jeremy-Ayre-run-France-schoolgirl-age-15.html

Something very odd or very brazenly hypocritical is happening there!


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Nov 20, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> It's now apparently illegal to name the teenage girl who was involved, and who featured on the front page of every national newspaper for a good week.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-runaway-schoolgirl.html?ICO=most_read_module
> 
> ...


The BBC still has its original article about the case, unedited.


----------



## Giles (Nov 20, 2012)

This is a ridiculous situation to end up in. The girl's name was front page news in all the newspapers, on every television channel and associated web site.

To attempt to change the past and pretend that no-one should now know her name is a waste of time. All the newspaper web sites still have articles with her name in freely available.

Just type something like "girl runs away with teacher to france" into Google, and there it is.

It seems a bit "1984"-like to suddenly have to pretend that we collectively don't know something that we all blatantly do know.

This brings the law into disrepute.

Giles..


----------



## Superdupastupor (Nov 20, 2012)

What's her name again- it's on the tip of my tongue 


(did i get the joke right, can't remember and not going to look it up, see the ban does work sorta)


----------



## gentlegreen (Nov 20, 2012)

Apparently Sally Bercow has Twittered the girl's name. 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...6b2c95dfadb74e&bpcl=38625945&biw=1099&bih=781


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2012)

Why is this tory wife of _a good friend of apartheid_ known at all?


----------



## laptop (Nov 20, 2012)

Giles said:


> This is a ridiculous situation to end up in. The girl's name was front page news in all the newspapers, on every television channel and associated web site.
> 
> To attempt to change the past and pretend that no-one should now know her name is a waste of time. All the newspaper web sites still have articles with her name in freely available.


 
Not entirely a waste of time.

1) As noted earlier, the courts have to apply the rule of law as it stands, with very limited discretion. This is for the most part a Very Good Thing.

2) Her name may be accessible, but only to those who choose to look. True, this has become rather easier now that it doesn't involve a trip to the British Newspaper Library in Colindale. Tidying up the law to take account of search engines and oblige retroactive redaction of websites could be Quite a Bad Thing.

3) It stops her name being re-reported in direct connection with the charges and the trial, which is a Good Thing in terms of her being allowed to grow up and get on with her life, which is the point of the anonymity in her case.


----------



## Chook (Nov 20, 2012)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...eted-after-hacker-calls-her-stupid-woman.html

At 2.21am, however her account appeared to have been hacked. The Tweet, which was written in broken English, said: "Hello 1000s of followers (funking lunatics). Stupid woman - password softearev."

He forgot to add *innocent face* , which would have been critical to his defence.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 20, 2012)

Its does seem a bit hmmm but unlike ms bercow i can figure out why its done.
 She is a victim of crime and the speakers wifey is an idiot.


----------



## Chook (Nov 20, 2012)

As her hubby is a Tory, does that rule out elf defence?


----------



## where to (Nov 20, 2012)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Why is this tory wife of a good friend of apartheid known at all?



Amazingly she is on the approved short list of Labour candidates for 2015 too. Says Wikipedia


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2012)

She is a liability, after she got a letter from McAlpines lawyers she was on twitter Friday night saying that she wasnt a conspiracy theorist but she believed it was politically motivated.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2012)

elbows said:


> She is a liability, after she got a letter from McAlpines lawyers she was on twitter Friday night saying that she wasnt a conspiracy theorist but she believed it was politically motivated.


A liability to who though?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Nov 20, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why is this tory wife of _a good friend of apartheid_ known at all?


 
ooh, i didn't know that.  *heads for google*


----------



## el-ahrairah (Nov 20, 2012)

oh dear, as much as i hate him he does appear to have well and truly repudiated that nonsense - or at least some of it.

"But Bercow is the sole Tory supporting Harriet Harman's equality legislation and prepared to join Diane Abbott to support all-black shortlists for parliamentary seats. "Even youngish men can acquire wisdom as time goes by," he told MPs yesterday."


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> oh dear, as much as i hate him he does appear to have well and truly repudiated that nonsense - or at least some of it.
> 
> "But Bercow is the sole Tory supporting Harriet Harman's equality legislation and prepared to join Diane Abbott to support all-black shortlists for parliamentary seats. "Even youngish men can acquire wisdom as time goes by," he told MPs yesterday."


Winds change, tory brick faces like that don't.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 20, 2012)

Has anyone mentioned the time a Tory MP reversed their car into the diminutive John Bercow's car leaving a visible dent, to which he announced he wasn't happy? The Tory MP turned round and said "ok so which one are you then?"


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 9, 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-suicide-overdose.html?ICO=most_read_module

Sounds like the un-nameable girl's parents.


----------



## Firky (Dec 9, 2012)

> 'A friend who lives close by was told by police they believed two people at the house had suspected overdoses.'


 
Most odd. Lots of questions. Not much information.


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

He's gone down, sentenced tomorrow. Apparently she said sorry to him in court and he mouthed I love you (BBC News).


----------



## Favelado (Jun 20, 2013)

Firky said:


> He's gone down, sentenced tomorrow. Apparently she said sorry to him in court and he mouthed I love you (BBC News).


 
He's such a _tosser_.


----------



## Sue (Jun 20, 2013)

Firky said:


> He's gone down, sentenced tomorrow. Apparently she said sorry to him in court and he mouthed I love you (BBC News).


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

Why are you using rolleyes at me, Sue?



Favelado said:


> He's such a _tosser_.


 
It confirmed that he's an idiot. No sorry, or I regret what I did or anything... just, "I love you" 

Get in the fucking slammer you child abusing shit bag


----------



## Sue (Jun 20, 2013)

Firky said:


> Why are you using rolleyes at me, Sue?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, the rolleyes weren't at you but at the utter stupidity on display.  (Obviously 15 year olds often do stupid things but 30 year olds should really, *really* know better.)


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

I think it'll effect his sentence tomorrow, he doesn't seem to have learned anything during his trial.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 20, 2013)

Firky said:


> I think it'll effect his sentence tomorrow, he doesn't seem to have learned anything during his trial.


 
He probably thinks she'll be waiting for him when he gets out.


----------



## Sue (Jun 20, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> He probably thinks she'll be waiting for him when he gets out.


 
And she probably thinks that too.


----------



## felixthecat (Jun 20, 2013)

Sue said:


> And she probably thinks that too.


 
Worked for Mary Kay Letourneau and Villi Fualaau (sp?)


----------



## brogdale (Jun 20, 2013)

Favelado said:


> He's such a _tosser_.


 
..and a Ephebophile.


----------



## xenon (Jun 20, 2013)

And his music's cringey creepy emo shite...


----------



## brogdale (Jun 20, 2013)

xenon said:


> And his music's cringey creepy emo shite...


 
Teenagers like that, don't they?


----------



## Sue (Jun 20, 2013)

felixthecat said:


> Worked for Mary Kay Letourneau and Villi Fualaau (sp?)



Don't know who they are but hopefully she'll grow up a bit and find a healthier relationship with someone else. And hopefully he will too.


----------



## felixthecat (Jun 20, 2013)

Sue said:


> Don't know who they are but hopefully she'll grow up a bit and find a healthier relationship with someone else. And hopefully he will too.


 
Very, very (in)famous American teacher/pupil relationship who are still together. Not saying its right, but its a precedent,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau


----------



## Thora (Jun 20, 2013)

I expect many relationships that started involving teacher/pupil, abusiveness or power imbalances go on to last a long time.  When that is your first/only experience of what a relationship is it must be really difficult to move on.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 20, 2013)

Sue said:


> Don't know who they are but hopefully she'll grow up a bit and find a healthier relationship with someone else. And hopefully he will too.


I know one shouldn't judge by appearances, but I must admit that when I first saw a picture of him, with his small mouth and slightly odd stare, I immediately took a dislike. And that was from a position of carefully reserving judgement about him, even though I knew he'd carted a child off to France to shag.

The kicker for me was the lame suicide excuse - "I though she'd kill herself, so I ran away with her to France". No, sunshine, that's not how it works: if you think a child in your care is at risk, you follow your extremely well-documented child protection procedures that you will have been on training after refresher training on, have been instructed to read regularly, and should know like the back of your hand, not spirit her off for a tryst in la belle France. ETA: on her mum's passport.

The lameness of that rather pathetic last-ditch attempt to give what he did some kind of moral justification kind of removed for me any possibility that this was in any way more than a teacher taking advantage of a pupil.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jun 20, 2013)

I think the more shocking thing is that he was shagging her for months beforehand. And he phoned her mother, denied the relationship and demanded she speak to her daughter. 
What a massive, massive twat he is, not only for crossing that line of responsiblity that one holds as a teacher, but also for being such a liar and idiot further down the line.


----------



## Sue (Jun 20, 2013)

felixthecat said:


> Very, very (in)famous American teacher/pupil relationship who are still together. Not saying its right, but its a precedent,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau



Obviously a teacher starting a sexual relationship with a 12 year old isn't right and, still together or not, can't see how a relationship based on that can be anything but dubious.


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

Thora said:


> I expect many relationships that started involving teacher/pupil, abusiveness or power imbalances go on to last a long time. When that is your first/only experience of what a relationship is it must be really difficult to move on.


 
Absolutely but that wanker was still putting his claws into her emotionally by mouthing, "I love you".

Even when awaiting for his verdict he's still thinking with his dick.


----------



## weltweit (Jun 20, 2013)

This thread was started in September 2012, and it has taken till now to get him in court. Why does it take so long? It is the same with Oscar Pistorious in South Africa, it is months ago he shot his girlfriend. Anyone know why justice takes so long?


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 20, 2013)

The not guilty plea.


----------



## Manter (Jun 20, 2013)

felixthecat said:


> Very, very (in)famous American teacher/pupil relationship who are still together. Not saying its right, but its a precedent,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau


Ugh, it says she now runs 'hot for teacher' club nights. Vile


----------



## Manter (Jun 20, 2013)

pinkmonkey said:


> I think the more shocking thing is that he was shagging her for months beforehand. And he phoned her mother, denied the relationship and demanded she speak to her daughter.
> What a massive, massive twat he is, not only for crossing that line of responsiblity that one holds as a teacher, but also for being such a liar and idiot further down the line.


I feel very, very sorry for his (presumably now ex) wife too


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 20, 2013)

weltweit said:


> This thread was started in September 2012, and it has taken till now to get him in court. Why does it take so long? It is the same with Oscar Pistorious in South Africa, it is months ago he shot his girlfriend. Anyone know why justice takes so long?


They should just cut out all the boring lawyer and barrister stuff


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 20, 2013)

Getting all the barristers and judge together at the same time is effort enough frankly. The last court case I attended the judge had to write to another judge to say that one of the barristers (the claimant in that particular case) would need a day off because otherwise they wouldn't have been able to return to court until the end of August due to other cases and commitments.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 20, 2013)

.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jun 20, 2013)

existentialist said:


> on her mums passport


It was his wife's passport afaicr. Even worse!


----------



## brogdale (Jun 20, 2013)

> Bishop Bell School has faced controversy over people linked to it in the past.
> Canon Gordon Rideout, 74, an ex-chairman of governors, was jailed for 10 years in May for abusing more than a dozen vulnerable girls and boys at a now closed Barnardo's home in Crawley, West Sussex, over a four-year period.
> The former Anglican priest also indecently assaulted two girls at an Army site in Middle Wallop, Hampshire.
> In 2009, supply teacher Robert Healy, then aged 27, was jailed for seven years at Lewes Crown Court after grooming two Bishop Bell pupils on the social networking site Bebo.
> ...


 
That's alright then.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 20, 2013)

Dont see him as evil just a massive twat who couldnt figure out he wasnt a teenager anymore ridicoulous manchild he'll have to grow up in jail fast pratt.
  FFS I could figure sleeping with teenage girls was wrong before I hit 25 and I,m me 
       I'll be nearly 50 before i qualify to teach so in the hilarious unlikey event that a teenage girl develops a crush on me a I wouldnt notice  and even if I did I'd be worried for their eyesight and or mental health !


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 20, 2013)

likesfish said:


> Dont see him as evil just a massive twat who couldnt figure out he wasnt a teenager anymore ridicoulous manchild he'll have to grow up in jail fast pratt.
> FFS I could figure sleeping with teenage girls was wrong before I hit 25 and I,m me
> I'll be nearly 50 before i qualify to teach so in the hilarious unlikey event that a teenage girl develops a crush on me a I wouldnt notice and even if I did I'd be worried for their eyesight and or mental health !


 
You're training to teach?  Please tell me you won't be an English teacher


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> You're training to teach?  Please tell me you won't be an English teacher


 


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...-Forces-to-be-fast-tracked-into-teaching.html


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

muscovyduck appears to be working her way through the 60 pages of this thread


----------



## muscovyduck (Jun 20, 2013)

Firky said:


> muscovyduck appears to be working her way through the 60 pages of this thread


You're all horrible about teenagers. My Chemical Romance, Muse and skinny jeans are not the problem.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 20, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> You're training to teach?  Please tell me you won't be an English teacher


 Doing a Maths physics degree


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 20, 2013)

Firky said:


> muscovyduck appears to be working her way through the 60 pages of this thread


 
It's like when what's his/her name went through the laurie penny thread. Almost a running commentary of where they're up to.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 20, 2013)

likesfish said:


> Doing a Maths physics degree


 
Thank fuck for that 

Good luck with it anyway - I'm only taking the piss out of your punctuation-phobia


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

muscovyduck said:


> You're all horrible about teenagers. My Chemical Romance, Muse and skinny jeans are not the problem.


 

There's nothing wrong with Muse (well apart from their last two albums) but there's everything wrong with skinny jeans and I don't even know a MCR song


----------



## killer b (Jun 20, 2013)

what's wrong with skinny jeans?


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 20, 2013)

killer b said:


> what's wrong with skinny jeans?


 
Nothing. Nothing at all.


----------



## killer b (Jun 20, 2013)

i'm going to wear skinny jeans tomorrow, just to revolt firky.


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

killer b said:


> what's wrong with skinny jeans?


 

They make me look like I'm smuggling a dead otter in my pants.


----------



## muscovyduck (Jun 20, 2013)

I managed this thread in like an evening. The Laurie Penny one took weeks, even when I skipped about 100 pages.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 20, 2013)

muscovyduck said:


> I managed this thread in like an evening. The Laurie Penny one took weeks, even when I skipped about 100 pages.


 
Oh that was you, too?

Well done, on both. 

Oh, and I bought my first pair of skinny jeans last month. In olive green


----------



## muscovyduck (Jun 20, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Oh that was you, too?
> 
> Well done, on both.
> 
> Oh, and I bought my first pair of skinny jeans last month. In olive green


I'm waiting for bell-bottoms to come back into fashion. I'm expecting it by 2016. It'll be the first trend I've witnessed twice.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 20, 2013)

Skinny jeans are clothing designed by Satan. Absolutely impossible to sit down without the seam that runs between your legs pulling tight and crushing something unmentionable, leading to eye watering agony


----------



## muscovyduck (Jun 20, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Skinny jeans are clothing designed by Satan. Absolutely impossible to sit down without the seam that runs between your legs pulling tight and crushing something unmentionable, leading to eye watering agony


My skinny jeans aren't that skinny because I don't fit the ridiculous shape they model clothes on, but I like to wear baggy tops and they don't go too well with extremely baggy jeans unless I'm going for the un-ironed-pile-of-clothes look.

I like to pretend I'm not bothered about social constructs surrounding the idea of fashion but no matter how many feminist quotes I read, I'll always hate what I look like.


----------



## snadge (Jun 20, 2013)

Hipster fucks and their skinny jeans.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 20, 2013)

I wear skinny jeans. 

Sometimes.


----------



## Firky (Jun 20, 2013)

Another name for the list.


----------



## IC3D (Jun 20, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> I wear skinny jeans.
> 
> Sometimes.


 
I got some skinny jeans, they work for me cos they stay up.


----------



## nogojones (Jun 20, 2013)

killer b said:


> what's wrong with skinny jeans?


 

Have you seen my legs?


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

nogojones said:


> Have you seen my legs?


No I haven't. Meet on the naked thread in 5?


----------



## Giles (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I know one shouldn't judge by appearances, but I must admit that when I first saw a picture of him, with his small mouth and slightly odd stare, I immediately took a dislike.


 
Isn't it a good job that "wronguns" always have some facial oddity? Otherwise they'd look totally normal and we'd never be able to spot them!

Giles..


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

men in skinny jeans must have disproportionatly small genitals imo


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> men in skinny jeans must have disproportionatly small genitals imo


 
Proportionatly, surely.


----------



## nogojones (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> No I haven't. Meet on the naked thread in 5?


 

Trust me. You're not ready for them yet


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

What kind of sentence is he likely to get? Is there any kind of mitigation?


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Another name for the list.


 
You can add me as well. Skinny jeans wearer since the 80s


----------



## kavenism (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> What kind of sentence is he likely to get? Is there any kind of mitigation?


His mitigation is that he wuvs her! And in his mind that means he has nothing to answer for.

On the issue of skinny jeans: I can't fit in any of them (skinny or super skinny) at TopMan as they seem to be designed for tofu munching fops who've never used their calf muscles for anything more than standing at Emo gigs. But even so they pale in the hipster prick stakes compared to the Carrot fit  You too can rock the village idiot look.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2013)

Back in the '80s my brother had a pair of skinny jeans that were so tight he couldn't bend his knees enough to crouch down


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> What kind of sentence is he likely to get? Is there any kind of mitigation?


 
i'm not sure what idiocy he's going to put forward as mitigation, but two issues stick out as 'mitigation' for me: firstly, a year later, and after every social worker, copper, psychologist and family member in the northern hemisphere telling her she had a lucky escape from an evil, unstable child-abducting nonce, she doesn't seem to bare him any ill-will, and infact still likes him - and secondly that the CPS have only charged him with Child Abduction: no Rape, no Sexual Assault, nothing other than going away with her/taking her away without her parents consent.

this is not child abduction in the traditional sense of grabbing a kid off the street, tying them up and throwing them in the back of a ford transit. had he not been her teacher, with the responsibilities inherant in that position, but just some 30yo man-child she met in a pub, then its quite possible it wouldn't even go to court - i think the judge is unlikely to throw the book at him: he'll go down, but not for long (unless, of course. the judge knows things we don't, which is of course entirely possible).


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Back in the '80s my brother had a pair of skinny jeans that were so tight he couldn't bend his knees enough to crouch down


 
My skinny cords were a bit like that. I thought I looked like Elvis Costello, but me Mam called them my Max Wall's.


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> i'm not sure what idiocy he's going to put forward as mitigation, but two issues stick out as 'mitigation' for me: firstly, a year later, and after every social worker, copper, psychologist and family member in the northern hemisphere telling her she had a lucky escape from an evil, unstable child-abducting nonce, she doesn't seem to bare him any ill-will, and infact still likes him - and secondly that the CPS have only charged him with Child Abduction: no Rape, no Sexual Assault, nothing other than going away with her/taking her away without her parents consent.
> 
> this is not child abduction in the traditional sense of grabbing a kid off the street, tying them up and throwing them in the back of a ford transit. had he not been her teacher, with the responsibilities inherant in that position, but just some 30yo man-child she met in a pub, then its quite possible it wouldn't even go to court - i think the judge is unlikely to throw the book at him: he'll go down, but not for long (unless, of course. the judge knows things we don't, which is of course entirely possible).


 
I haven't followed this case much but I did see on one of the news channels that the CPS had described him as a paedophile during his trial. Is he a paedophile or just a man who fell for somebody he shouldn't have because the law says so. Is there a difference?

Its not one of those cases that I've found myself disgusted by really.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 21, 2013)

I am wearing skinny cords right now. They are burgandy.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> ...the CPS had described him as a paedophile...


 
which tells you all you need to know about the CPS - either the CPS is a bunch of thick cunts who don't know that in order to be a paedophile the subject of attraction _has_ to be pre-pubescent, or they are a bunch of thick politicing cunts who want to play to the Sun/Daily Mail gallery, but who haven't considered that the judge will see their politicing and run a mile from it.

CPS - can't get a job in private practice...


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> I am wearing skinny cords right now. They are burgandy.


 
Do corduroy trousers still exist.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> Do corduroy trousers still exist.


 

Yes.


----------



## Giles (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> What kind of sentence is he likely to get? Is there any kind of mitigation?


 
His mitigation will probably be "well, she was quite fit, and well up for it, your honour".

Giles..


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

Giles said:


> His mitigation will probably be "well, she was quite fit, and well up for it, your honour".
> 
> Giles..


 
What a knob head.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> I am wearing skinny cords right now. They are burgandy.


hardcore.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Giles said:


> Isn't it a good job that "wronguns" always have some facial oddity? Otherwise they'd look totally normal and we'd never be able to spot them!
> 
> Giles..


Perhaps we only notice the ones who do!


----------



## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> i'm not sure what idiocy he's going to put forward as mitigation, but two issues stick out as 'mitigation' for me: firstly, a year later, and after every social worker, copper, psychologist and family member in the northern hemisphere telling her she had a lucky escape from an evil, unstable child-abducting nonce, she doesn't seem to bare him any ill-will, and infact still likes him - and secondly that the CPS have only charged him with Child Abduction: no Rape, no Sexual Assault, nothing other than going away with her/taking her away without her parents consent.
> 
> this is not child abduction in the traditional sense of grabbing a kid off the street, tying them up and throwing them in the back of a ford transit. had he not been her teacher, with the responsibilities inherant in that position, but just some 30yo man-child she met in a pub, then its quite possible it wouldn't even go to court - i think the judge is unlikely to throw the book at him: he'll go down, but not for long (unless, of course. the judge knows things we don't, which is of course entirely possible).


 

Pretty much my exact thoughts. He's being portrayed as a "vile pedophile". So unless there are factors to the case we don't know about, I'd say he's more of a vile plonker for not being professional enough to stay away.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> I am wearing skinny cords right now. They are burgandy.


 
Nice one. 

Mine were 'Elephant' cord in Grey; I can still see them clearly....happy times.

I think they were 28" waist. Since the late 70's I've noticed that waist measurements have become far less accurate; my troos now have a much larger number.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

Men with less than 34" waists are no men at all no offence


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Men with less than 34" waists are no men at all no offence


 
I am a man, then.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jun 21, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Nice one.
> 
> Mine were 'Elephant' cord in Grey; I can still see them clearly....happy times.
> 
> I think they were 28" waist. Since the late 70's I've noticed that waist measurements have become far less accurate; my troos now have a much larger number.


 

It's inflation.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Men with less than 34" waists are no men at all no offence


 

32 32 in a Levi 501...and last time I looked definitely a man (copyright E. Morecambe).

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Pretty much my exact thoughts. He's being portrayed as a "vile pedophile". So unless there are factors to the case we don't know about, I'd say he's more of a vile plonker for not being professional enough to stay away.


 
Plonker?

More like a manipulative, controlling Ephebophile who used his powerful position of trust to expolit a vulnerable child in his care.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

Louis MacNeice said:


> 32 32 in a Levi 501...and last time I looked definitely a man (copyright E. Morecambe).
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


 
arent you a fell runner or summat? if so you're the exceptions that prove the rule of course


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> He's gone down, sentenced tomorrow. Apparently she said sorry to him in court and he mouthed I love you (BBC News).


 

see, he's just going to hook back up with her after he has done his chokey


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Pretty much my exact thoughts. He's being portrayed as a "vile pedophile". So unless there are factors to the case we don't know about, I'd say he's more of a vile plonker for not being professional enough to stay away.


 
I get hacked off with this "paedophile" thing. Paedophiles are, as someone has pointed out, people with a sexual attraction to prepubescent children.

I have the feeling that this attempt to label anyone involved in inappropriate sexual activity with children as a paedophile is a kind of ratcheting up of the outrage. There is plenty wrong with people who engage in by-definition abusive sexual relationships with younger people without trying to pretend that they are something they are not, and the blurring of the distinction between "wrong" sexual behaviour and downright aberrant sexual behaviour (paedophilia, for example) is pointless beyond being a rather effective way of attempting to whip up irrational public anger about people who abuse or exploit children.

Whatever his (and her) defence, a teacher engaging in a relationship with a pupil is an abuse of the power dynamic that inevitably arises in such situations. I'd go so far as to say that if I, as a 49 year old tutor, were to embark on a sexual relationship with a 40-year-old student, that, too, would be abusive. OK, in terms of degrees of abusiveness, not as bad as getting involved with a much younger student, and certainly not as bad as getting involved with an underage student, but they all lie along a spectrum (actually, most training establishments will have rules forbidding such relationships, and in my case there is a professional obligation on me not to, as well).

I do find it interesting that they chose only to pursue the abduction charge: to my mind, he's probably guilty of "abuse of a position of trust" as well, not to mention sexual activity with a child under 16.

I can only assume that they decided it would be impossible to have got the girl to testify in court that sexual activity took place (although it appears to be accepted that it did) to a standard that would secure a conviction, and perhaps the abduction charge trumps the "abuse of a position of trust" one, too.

As far as mitigating and aggravating factors go, I'd have thought the mitigating ones would be the absence of any force, and the comparative shortness of the period of abduction. On the other side of the Scales of Justice, aggravating factors would be the sexual motive, abuse of position of trust, the degree of sophistication used to perpetrate the abduction (misuse of a passport? Another offence!), and the level of impact upon the family - it sounds as if the girl is claiming she wasn't abducted because it was her idea, so they presumably can't pin too much on the impact on her.

I reckon he won't get the whole 7 years. If there were a sweepstake on it, I'd be going for somewhere between 3.5 and 5 years, hedging my bets like a bastard.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I'd go so far as to say that if I, as a 49 year old tutor, were to embark on a sexual relationship with a 40-year-old student, that, too, would be abusive.


 
A total devaluation of the word abusive there


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Pretty much my exact thoughts. He's being portrayed as a "vile pedophile". So unless there are factors to the case we don't know about, I'd say he's more of a vile plonker for not being professional enough to stay away.


 

He's technically not a paedohpile but he had a sexual relationship with a child whilst still marrying his wife. He not only lied and abused his position at school he also did the same in his personal life, he's a dishonest, manipulative lying shit bag who abducted a child for his own sexual gratification. I think it was reported he had been having sexual relations with her long before he convinced her that running away to France and changing their identities was a good thing (he knew what he was doing was wrong). He also lied to her family in order to gain their trust. And of course she hold him no ill-will, she's a 15 year old girl who was groomed, ffs.

He's more than a plonker and you seem more concerned about how he is portrayed than the damage he has inflicted on several families, a child and to some extent the trust in parent teacher relations.

Fuck him.


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> and you seem more concerned about how he is portrayed than the damage he has inflicted on several families, a child and to some extent the trust in parent teacher relations.


 
I do, do I?

Wow, you have such amazing perception. You seem to know exactly what I think.

E2a: Just to add an alternative viewpoint to all the posters who seem to know exactly what went on, what do you make of this? 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/17/jeremy-forrest-schoolgirl-court


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## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> A total devaluation of the word abusive there


 
Not really. There's a power imbalance that exists between tutors and students, especially on something like a counselling course where people can become (or already be) quite vulnerable, and a sexual relationship would almost inevitably tend to exploit that imbalance, unless very great care were taken for it not to. And the best way of taking that care is...not to get into the relationship in the first place.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> men in skinny jeans must have disproportionatly small genitals imo


 
TBF, that's the heat generated by the tight crotch.
Kills "the lads" too, all that extra warmth, which at least provides uus with the possibility that many skinny jeans-wearers won't be capable of breeding.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> I do, do I?
> 
> Wow, you have such amazing perception. You seem to know exactly what I think.
> 
> ...


 
No I don't that is why I said you *seem.*

The abused defends the abuser shocker. What is your point?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

kavenism said:


> His mitigation is that he wuvs her! And in his mind that means he has nothing to answer for.
> 
> On the issue of skinny jeans: I can't fit in any of them (skinny or super skinny) at TopMan as they seem to be designed for tofu munching fops who've never used their calf muscles for anything more than standing at Emo gigs. But even so they pale in the hipster prick stakes compared to the Carrot fit  You too can rock the village idiot look.


 
Isn't that rocking the "*faecally-incontinent* village idiot" look?


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> No I don't that is why I said you *seem.*
> 
> The abused defends the abuser shocker. What is your point?


 

My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. The girl could easily have been the manipulator.


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## Dillinger4 (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Isn't that rocking the "*faecally-incontinent* village idiot" look?


 

when you see people wearing them it really does look like they wearing a nappy underneath. A fully loaded nappy at that. 

In my mind it is the same sort of direction as 'the onesie'. Infantalisation.


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## fogbat (Jun 21, 2013)

Antisemitic is the wrong word. Semite actually means something different.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. The girl could easily have been the manipulator.


 
Easily?

If she could have "easily" been the abusive partner in the relationship that would have come about in the the trial that has lasted almsot a year. Also if he found himself getting into a position where he felt he was being manipulated by a 15 year old girl, as a 30 year old man he should have removed himself from that situation - but we know that's not the case... he idolised her, wrote songs about her, drew pictures of her. Sent her texts of how he'd love to kiss her naked shoulders, ffs.

None of us know exactly what went on but those involved do and they found HIM guilty. Not her.

Jesus christ, no wonder women are hesitant about coming forwards about being sexually assaulted and raped.


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## Riklet (Jun 21, 2013)

he´s not a real paedo, he's just a poor misunderstood guy who fell for a 15 year old and ran off to france with them and and and...

get a grip, some real dicks here.  "she led him on!".  Fuck off.

he was her teacher and in a position of trust. maybe he's not a serial child rapist, but he broke the law when in a position of trust, whether this situation was harmful or wrong should not be decided by the 15 year old victim ffs.

anything less than 5 years would be way too soft, IMO. judging by what an ex-teacher at my old school got given with no abduction charges etc, and the fact there may well be withheld info, I reckon he'll get a fairly stiff sentence. he doesn't need to be an evil monster child-porn producer to thoroughly deserve it, either.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Not really. There's a power imbalance that exists between tutors and students, especially on something like a counselling course where people can become (or already be) quite vulnerable, and a sexual relationship would almost inevitably tend to exploit that imbalance, unless very great care were taken for it not to. And the best way of taking that care is...not to get into the relationship in the first place.


 
fair enough between a counsellor/therapist etc and their patient maybe in which case it's not the age gap rather than the relationship itself which makes the power imbalance. It is however not the same even then between tutor and pupil imo - there is a danger of infantilising the pupil in your example imo


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

She was asking for it, coming to school in that short skirt and attending his classes. Poor guy just got manipulated by the sexual deviancy of a 15 year old girl.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. The girl could easily have been the manipulator.


 
um I did think firky might have gone a bit far with you, but no making this argument is dangerous - of course a 15 year old is capable of manipulation - but frankly that's irrelevant in this case.


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## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. The girl could easily have been the manipulator.


fucksake. this again. children manipulating adults with their sexy wiles.


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## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. The girl could easily have been the manipulator.


 

Them evil young vixens leading innocent older men astray


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> fucksake. this again. children manipulating adults with their sexy wiles.


 
I blame the toning mist


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## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

she's mature for her age, no doubt.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> He's technically not a paedohpile but he had a sexual relationship with a child whilst still marrying his wife. He not only lied and abused his position at school he also did the same in his personal life, he's a dishonest, manipulative lying shit bag who abducted a child for his own sexual gratification. I think it was reported he had been having sexual relations with her long before he convinced her that running away to France and changing their identities was a good thing (he knew what he was doing was wrong). He also lied to her family in order to gain their trust. And of course she hold him no ill-will, she's a 15 year old girl who was groomed, ffs.


 
Bear in mind that she's also a young woman who'll have been given extensive psychological counselling to "unpick" the grooming.  Either he's a better "programmer" than most of the psychs who specialise in "de-programming", or she's somehow resistant to psychotherapeutic intervention, or she's reached an understanding of herself that includes affection for this no-mark.


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## Riklet (Jun 21, 2013)

those 15 year olds are minxy little slags, eyeliner and push up bras, no maths teacher in his right might would be able to resist a spell of child-abduction in france during the summer holidays. the lad got led on, you don't know _what they're like_.



this is supposed to be urban75 ffs


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

How would you feel if your 15 year old daughter started having sexual relations with a 30 year old man who you trusted, Titan? Would you say she could have easily been the nubile siren singing the poor plonker to ship-wreck and ruin too?



ViolentPanda said:


> Bear in mind that she's also a young woman who'll have been given extensive psychological counselling to "unpick" the grooming. Either he's a better "programmer" than most of the psychs who specialise in "de-programming", or she's somehow resistant to psychotherapeutic intervention, or she's reached an understanding of herself that includes affection for this no-mark.


 
It isn't even a year, it is going to take years for her to get over it (if ever).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. The girl could easily have been the manipulator.


 
It's possible, although I'm not sure how probable, but if so, we still need to view her action through the lens of a teenage girl perhaps just starting to understand or even assert her femaleness, and his actions through the lens of a man of an age that he should be aware of boundaries who was a member of a profession where such boundaries are rigidly defined.
Frankly, she could have been doing a Sharon Stone at him in class, and he should still have known enough to walk away.


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

Riklet said:


> this is supposed to be urban75 ffs


 

It is. And exactly why when someone tries to offer an alternative viewpoint they're called dicks. 

So it seems like I'm a dick for saying that there is something about this case that isn't open and shut as the media would have us believe. I am in no way defending his behavior. 

But the level of Daily Mail style outrage is strong.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> when you see people wearing them it really does look like they wearing a nappy underneath. A fully loaded nappy at that.
> 
> In my mind it is the same sort of direction as 'the onesie'. Infantalisation.


 
Yep. I feel exactly the same about the "low-slung" jeans as I did about the "Hammer pants" fad of the '80s - what sort of utter cretin wants to look like they're carrying 7 pounds of shit in their strides?


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## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

Riklet said:


> those 15 year olds are minxy little slags, eyeliner and push up bras, no maths teacher in his right might would be able to resist a spell of child-abduction in france during the summer holidays. the lad got led on, you don't know _what they're like_.
> 
> 
> 
> this is supposed to be urban75 ffs


it's pathetic, and keeps on being wheeled out - so what if some girls are sexually precocious? how is that any kind of excuse for a teacher to abuse his position, or for any adult to take advantage of it?


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## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> But the level of Daily Mail style outrage is strong.


fuck off.


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's possible, although I'm not sure how probable, but if so, we still need to view her action through the lens of a teenage girl perhaps just starting to understand or even assert her femaleness, and his actions through the lens of a man of an age that he should be aware of boundaries who was a member of a profession where such boundaries are rigidly defined.
> Frankly, she could have been doing a Sharon Stone at him in class, and he should still have known enough to walk away.


 

Thank you for a balanced response VP. I admit I was playing devils advocate in my statement. It just seems that people are judging him on his media portrayal as a manipulative child abuser. All I'm saying is that maybe, and I repeat MAYBE, it's not the case. He is incredibly foolish for breaching the trust and responsibility placed upon him. But some people are just stupid.


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> fuck off.


 

Why, struck a nerve has it? 

Urban Lynchmob strikes again.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm quite happy to be accused of Daily Mail outrage for siding with an abused child and not a man who has abused his power and position of trust, lied to her family, his wife and abducted and had sex with a 15 year old girl.


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## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

nonce's advocate more like


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> nonce's advocate more like


 
Only a _prude_ would say that


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Easily?
> 
> If she could have "easily" been the abusive partner in the relationship that would have come about in the the trial that has lasted almsot a year. Also if he found himself getting into a position where he felt he was being manipulated by a 15 year old girl, as a 30 year old man he should have removed himself from that situation - but we know that's not the case... he idolised her, wrote songs about her, drew pictures of her. Sent her texts of how he'd love to kiss her naked shoulders, ffs.
> 
> ...


 
Thing is, she could have led him on, and there'd be nothing she could be charged with. She could have been some kind of _über_ fornicator temptress who fucked her way through every male member of staff, and there'd still be nothing on the statutes that she could be charged with, so your sanguineness that the court's judgement somehow means she's the innocent party isn't necessarily accurate.

And just to make clear, I'm firmly in the "his fault" camp, because the dynamic in such cases, even when the student is consenting from the off, still transgresses law, normative social behaviour and the "code" every teacher signs up to.


----------



## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> I'm quite happy to be accused of Daily Mail outrage for siding with an abused child and not a man who has abused his power and position of trust, lied to her family, his wife and abducted and had sex with a 15 year old girl.


 

Oh yeah, because Urban has decided I have sided with him.


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## Riklet (Jun 21, 2013)

Daily Mail outrage?

Get a grip. Big news, teenage girls have sexual desires. Teacher training 101 -- don´t go anywhere fucking near. You are not being paid to groom or "make friends" with children and talk them through their personal problems. Let alone manipulate them at a vunerable stage in their life to the extent you get them to _run off to another fucking country with you _and change their name etc.

How has the media manipulated the above facts? Aren't they just what happened? And aren't they generally viewed by most adults as being wrong to the extent someone doing them should be in court, and facing punishment. No alternative viewpoint yet presented seems to have challenged this very much.

Oh and stop being so butthurt TitanSound, people are disagreeing with your post and what you wrote, not making you out to be XYZ.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> um I did think firky might have gone a bit far with you, but no making this argument is dangerous - of course a 15 year old is capable of manipulation - but frankly that's irrelevant in this case.


 
I think the argument does need to be out in the open and considered as a possibility, though, if only because you can't get a proper perspective unless you consider any and all possibilities, however remote and/or socially repugnant.


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

Riklet said:


> Oh and stop being so butthurt TitanSound, people are disagreeing with your post and what you wrote, not making you out to be XYZ.


 

Yes but they conveniently ignore where I don't advocate what he's done. I'm not butthurt.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Thing is, she could have led him on


 
But that is irrelevant.  

For arguments sake lets say she did.

She led him on - he let it happen, he enjoyed it and went back for more instead of following whatever procedures or in place for such things (I assume there's some system for people in positions of trust and power to follow) or simply telling her to fuck off he's married.


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## andysays (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. *The girl could easily have been the manipulator*.


 
I don't think that will be a particularly fruitful line of discussion to take, TBH...


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> ...but frankly that's irrelevant in this case.


 
i'm not sure its _irrelevent_, the report in the Guardian (above) would suggest to me that on the day of departure he would have been a very, very stressed man: police have been to her house to collect evidence, he's knows he's going to lose his job and career, and his wife is going to find out - and then the girl he thinks of as the love of his life rings him up and says 'i'm running away' and because of his previous, professional, dealings with her he knows she could be very vunerable. manipulative isn't the right word to use - but such an event is going to 'press his buttons' and its going to produce a result.

the be all and end all _of this incident_ is that he was employed as a teacher, and she was his pupil - he should have had the maturity to not go down this road, but he did not have that maturity and 'grip', he was fundamentally unsuited to a position of responsibility.  he should be punished for his actions, but whether he should be punished for his failings as a teacher/person of responsibility is perhaps more difficult to decide.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

People are aslo forgetting he was listening to My Chemical Romance at 30 years old.

Alarm bells.


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

andysays said:


> I don't think that will be a particularly fruitful line of discussion to take, TBH...


 

Of course not. But for some of the remarkably outspoken posters on here they've taken it far too literally. 

Urban, bastion of balanced discussion.


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## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Thank you for a balanced response VP. I admit I was playing devils advocate in my statement. It just seems that people are judging him on his media portrayal as a manipulative child abuser. All I'm saying is that maybe, and I repeat MAYBE, it's not the case. He is incredibly foolish for breaching the trust and responsibility placed upon him. But some people are just stupid.


 

I am judging him on the fact that he is a 30 year old man in a position of power and trust who started a relationship with a pupil in his care. You don't need to go by any media portrayal to see how wrong an unacceptable that is.

No one made him sleep with her. He chose to do that. And that choice makes him a cunt.


----------



## Riklet (Jun 21, 2013)

in this theoretical situation it would be the teacher speaking with the deputy head or line manager or whoever saying that a 15 year old girl had taken more than a casual interest in him and he was unsure of how to respond with this kind of situation.  the professional response of the school, as a place in charge of child welfare and education would presumably not have been:

swap phone numbers, get her to tell your problems, give it a few weeks and then see what a go-er she is with a quick european holiday.

Ffs what teacher doesn't encounter teenager crushes (unless they are old and minging obviously)? ...And how many end up behaving like this man?


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

Garek said:


> I am judging him on the fact that he is a 30 year old man in a position of power and trust who started a relationship with a pupil in his care. You don't need to go by any media portrayal to see how wrong an unacceptable that is.


 
The exact criteria I was judging him by. So thanks for backing it up.


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## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

He's pleaded guilty to sexual activity with a child. Must be new charges because news said he pleaded to a magistrate rather than a judge IYKWIM.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Of course not. But for some of the remarkably outspoken posters on here they've taken it far too literally.
> 
> Urban, bastion of balanced discussion.


 

How else was it supposed to be taken, were you joking?

I know you're not a knob, Titan, anything but... however I do think you're being more than a bit myopic.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> It isn't even a year, it is going to take years for her to get over it (if ever).


 
I haven't said anything about her getting over it, just that she'll have been thoroughly counselled and analysed in order to "de-programme" her - that is, move her beyond any constructs he'd created about blame and responsibility.

Reaching a time and place where she comes to terms with what happened (you never "get over it") will obviously take longer.


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## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> How else was it supposed to be taken, were you joking?
> 
> I know you're not a knob, Titan, anything but... however I do think you're being more than a bit myopic.


 

I wasn't joking, no. But I also wasn't being out of order.

I think I'm struggling to articulate exactly what I mean.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> But that is irrelevant.
> 
> For arguments sake lets say she did.
> 
> She led him on - he let it happen, he enjoyed it and went back for more instead of following whatever procedures or in place for such things (I assume there's some system for people in positions of trust and power to follow) or simply telling her to fuck off he's married.


 
Yes, I know it's irrelevant. I've made clear it's irrelevant whether or not she led him on, that even if she did, she's committed no crime.

What part of that are you not getting?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

I just hope it doesn't put her off studying maths at a higher level.


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## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Of course not. But for some of the remarkably outspoken posters on here they've taken it far too literally.
> 
> Urban, bastion of balanced discussion.


sorry, but your 'devils advocate' (lol) statement is one that's been wheeled out ad infinitum here and elsewhere whenever there's a case involving teenage girls being nonced. if people take exception to it, it's because it's a repulsive attitude, and one that _should_ be stamped on. cause - whether you wanted it to or not - it excuses abusers, and puts the onus on children for the abuse.


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## pogofish (Jun 21, 2013)

Sent down for five and a half years according to BBC radio just now.


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## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

should have abused a few more kids, he'd only have got 15 months.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> What part of that are you not getting?


 
I could ask you the same


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## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

Five and a half years.


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## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

pogofish said:


> Sent down for five and a half years according to BBC radio just now.


 
one assumes then that the judge knows things about his history that we don't - five and a half years is well to the right of what the legal pundits were forecasting given what we understood of the case.


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

pogofish said:


> Sent down for five and a half years according to BBC radio just now.


 
On the bright side, when he gets out, she'll be 21. Should be a good test of how strong their love really is.


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## weltweit (Jun 21, 2013)

Anyone know how a 5.5 year sentence compares to other crimes?


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> Five and a half years.


 
So, out in a bit less than 3.


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## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> should have abused a few more kids, he'd only have got 15 months.


 
I thought that treatment was saved for well to do elderly gentlemen who forced themselves on pre teen girls.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> one assumes then that the judge knows things about his history that we don't - five and a half years is well to the right of what the legal pundits were forecasting given what we understood of the case.


 
Wouldn't the employers too then?


----------



## TitanSound (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> sorry, but your 'devils advocate' (lol) statement is one that's been wheeled out ad infinitum here and elsewhere whenever there's a case involving teenage girls being nonced. if people take exception to it, it's because it's a repulsive attitude, and one that _should_ be stamped on. cause - whether you wanted it to or not - it excuses abusers, and puts the onus on children for the abuse.


 

OK, fair point. 

But putting lol in brackets just makes you look like a condescending prick.


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## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

1 year for the abduction. I bet he fucking regrets pleading guilty to the sex charges.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> one assumes then that the judge knows things about his history that we don't - five and a half years is well to the right of what the legal pundits were forecasting given what we understood of the case.


Why? You trust the judgement of judges?


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> OK, fair point.
> 
> But putting lol in brackets just makes you look like a condescending prick.


i prefer 'sneering cunt', thanks.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> CPS - can't get a job in private practice...



Still better than the army legal service which was described to me by a leftie barrister who was having a few days in cyprus defending a squaddie at a court martial as unfit for private practice and really missing nanny  there shoe laces.
 This the court martial  isnt a battle of wits its a disability hate crime .

He deserves to go down badic rule of teaching dont shag the pupils or try to kill them even if, the experiment would be be really cool  half your age plus 7  not difficult.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> 1 year for the abduction. I bet he fucking regrets pleading guilty to the sex charges.


 
He said he loved her when the verdict was read out. That's not the actions of someone who's full of regret.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> should have abused a few more kids, he'd only have got 15 months.


 
or, alternatively, he should have wrapped his 6 day old baby in a bin liner and thrown it down the 40ft rubbish chute in a block of flats. child suffered a fractured skull, life limiting injuries and brain damge. 2 and a half years. parents want to have the baby returned to them when the mother gets out of prison in a year.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Wouldn't the employers too then?


 
his school don't appear to have a particularly good record on such matters...


----------



## Sue (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> or, alternatively, he should have wrapped his 6 day old baby in a bin liner and thrown it down the 40ft rubbish chute in a block of flats. child suffered a fractured skull, life limiting injuries and brain damge. 2 and a half years. parents want to have the baby returned to them when the mother gets out of prison in a year.



Oh FFS.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

hm. not sure if i want to continue along this line of discussion after all.


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> He said he loved her when the verdict was read out. That's not the actions of someone who's full of regret.


 
If he hadn't pleaded guilty and only got the 12 months for abduction he would have walked out of court this morning. But maybe he/his solicitor knew something about sentencing prior to him pleading guilty to the new charges.


----------



## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> or, alternatively, he should have wrapped his 6 day old baby in a bin liner and thrown it down the 40ft rubbish chute in a block of flats. child suffered a fractured skull, life limiting injuries and brain damge. 2 and a half years. parents want to have the baby returned to them when the mother gets out of prison in a year.


 

You're an idiot

"Judge Kate Thirlwall said she accepted Abdulrahman's actions were not premeditated and she was suffering from post-natal psychosis at the time".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22984591


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

Garek said:


> You're an idiot
> 
> "Judge Kate Thirlwall said she accepted Abdulrahman's actions were not premeditated and she was suffering from post-natal psychosis at the time".
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22984591


That's a confusing case. Why was she sent to prison at all?


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

Garek said:


> You're an idiot
> 
> "Judge Kate Thirlwall said she accepted Abdulrahman's actions were not premeditated and she was suffering from post-natal psychosis at the time".
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22984591


 
which, i'm sure, helps the childs recovery enormously. both defendents are 'not the full shilling' - he because he's a peter-pan idiot who thinks he's 17, and she becuase she's got PND, one childs life is utterly destroyed, the others is almost certainly not (normal caveats apply), one gets 2.5 years and everyones sorry, the other 5.5 years and he should be burnt at the stake.


----------



## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> which, i'm sure, helps the childs recovery enormously. both defendents are 'not the full shilling' - he because he's a peter-pan idiot who thinks he's 17, and she becuase she's got PND, one childs life is utterly destroyed, the others is almost certainly not (normal caveats apply), one gets 2.5 years and everyones sorry, the other 5.5 years and he should be burnt at the stake.


 

You're an idiot and a cunt.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2013)

Out in 18 monthsish then? Seems about right and on the register for life time to start doing that ou accountancy course then


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> which, i'm sure, helps the childs recovery enormously. both defendents are 'not the full shilling' - he because he's a peter-pan idiot who thinks he's 17, and she becuase she's got PND, one childs life is utterly destroyed, the others is almost certainly not (normal caveats apply), one gets 2.5 years and everyones sorry, the other 5.5 years and he should be burnt at the stake.


 
Working out responsibility for actions is difficult. But if it is accepted that she snapped and did something she instantly regretted, that is rather different from a pattern of activity over the course of a number of years. I don't see the point in sending her to prison at all if it is accepted that she was suffering from a temporary psychosis. She has to live with what she did - that is more punishment than any a court could hand down anyway.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's a confusing case. Why was she sent to prison at all?


 
because a childs life has been destroyed?

either people are responsible for children under their care - regardless of whatever crises they happen to be undergoing at the time (and no, i'm not defending the creepy teacher or his actions), or they are not.

E2A:  seen your reply - have some sympathy with your view, and yes there are definate differences (though they did try to cover it up at the time, claiming to the police tht the child hd been abducted), but a life has been destroyed.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> because a childs life has been destroyed?


And sending her to prison undestroys that life? No, it doesn't.


----------



## Thora (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> My point is, none of us know exactly what went on. The girl could easily have been the manipulator.


You know, this comes up quite regularly when young girls are abused.  Having sex with an 11 year old who wears hotpants and heels isn't really that bad, because she's "sexually precocious".  Raping a 13 year old who isn't a virgin isn't as bad as raping one who is.  The police didn't really want to get involved in those sex gang cases because the girls were "willing".

Have you met many 15 year olds?  I haven't met one who could manipulate me tbh.  A teacher should be particularly good at not being manipulated by a teenager.  A 30 year old who is seemingly intelligent enough to hold down a job should be able to avoid sleeping with and abducting an underage girl.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

When you think things can't get much lower...


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## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Brings 'em out of the woodwork innit.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

"Sex-cases and the men who defend them on the internet - a study of dickheads"


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> Brings 'em out of the woodwork innit.


 

Got that list handy or do you need another sheet of paper?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

Thora said:


> Have you met many 15 year olds? I haven't met one who could manipulate me tbh. A teacher should be particularly good at not being manipulated by a teenager. A 30 year old who is seemingly intelligent enough to hold down a job should be able to avoid sleeping with and abducting an underage girl.


 
He crossed a very clear line the moment he started any kind of relationship with her. When he slept with her, he crossed another line. tbh, the abduction side of it is pretty unimportant imo - those lines had already been crossed, and as you say, he will have known full-well that he had crossed them. He can't get away from that.

Still seems a harsh sentence to me, though, possibly aggravated by the publicity surrounding the case. I'm pretty uneasy about this kind of thing being played out so publicly - I don't think it does anyone involved any good, particularly the girl.


----------



## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> because a childs life has been destroyed?
> 
> either people are responsible for children under their care - regardless of whatever crises they happen to be undergoing at the time (and no, i'm not defending the creepy teacher or his actions), or they are not.
> .


 

So you really do believe that a woman in the midst of a psychotic episode brought on by PND should be punished and sent to prison for harming her child, rather than being given support and compassion? You honestly believe that?


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

TBH this just sounds like "_a how dare you waste my time by going not guilty_" sentence than anything else.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Got that list handy or do you need another sheet of paper?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

that's just the condensed version


----------



## Thora (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He crossed a very clear line the moment he started any kind of relationship with her. When he slept with her, he crossed another line. tbh, the abduction side of it is pretty unimportant imo - those lines had already been crossed, and as you say, he will have known full-well that he had crossed them.


That's the thing when people say maybe they were genuinely in love and she is just as responsible. You don't suddenly go from perfectly appropriate teacher: pupil relationship one day to running away fantasy the next - it happened over a long period, with him having more than enough opportunities to stop things if he wanted to, but he didn't. It's almost like some believe that if you see a 14 year old you like the look of, it's quite understandable that you can't help yourself but have sex with her


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Still seems a harsh sentence to me.


 
Why? He's:

A teacher who abused his position of trust and power.
A teacher who groomed a kid so he could have sexual relations with her.
A teacher who tried to abduct her and falsify their identity so he could continue to have sexual relations with a child.
A teacher who lied to her family and his own so he could continue to abuse her.
A teacher who has undermined the professional child / teacher and parent / teacher relationships for anyone involved in the education of children.
A teacher who seems to show no remorse for his actions.
A teacher who listened to My Chemical Romance.
A teacher who has marred the victim emotionally for possibly the rest of her life.
A teacher who has marred not only his own family but hers.

A 5 1/2 year sentence (which he won't serve the full term) and put on the register seems quite lenient to me. He'll be out before he's in his mid 30s and although his career is fucked I can't say I am bothered that it is.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> TBH this just sounds like "_a how dare you waste my time by going not guilty_" sentence than anything else.


Yes, could be. Pretty foolish pleading not guilty, really, although as I understand it, he didn't offer any kind of defence either. I do think it's a bit dangerous to start handing down long sentences just because a defendant pleads not guilty - it's up to the court to prove guilt, after all.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Why, he's:
> 
> A teacher who listened to My Chemical Romance.


 
this is a very important point here.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 21, 2013)

He was thirty and listened to My Chemical Romance?


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And sending her to prison undestroys that life? No, it doesn't.


 
no, it doesn't - but the idea that she should not be punished for a moment of madness that she immediately regretted is undermined by the fact that their first action upon realising what had happened wasn't to call an ambulance, it was to call the police to claim the child had been abducted. 

i have no problem with the concept that people can be affected by MH problems that so fundamentally compromise their ability to think rationally that they cannot be held accountable for their actions - my problem is that one utter fcukwit (who very obviously has some kind of problem with decision making, boundaries, self-image, and reality) who shouldn't be in charge of a bag of crisps let alone a bunch of children gets the book thrown at him (not, imv, a problem), while another is treated with sympathy. both fell short of what they should have done because of a failure to think/be able to think, but for one its a tradegy, for another its a hanging offence.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes, could be. Pretty foolish pleading not guilty, really, although as I understand it, he didn't offer any kind of defence either. I do think it's a bit dangerous to start handing down long sentences just because a defendant pleads not guilty - it's up to the court to prove guilt, after all.


 
I agree, but there was ample evidence of his guilt and as you say he didnt actually defend himself either.  That isnt something that judges ever usually look favourably upon.


----------



## Boycey (Jun 21, 2013)

Thora said:


> Have you met many 15 year olds? I haven't met one who could manipulate me tbh. A teacher should be particularly good at not being manipulated by a teenager. A 30 year old who is seemingly intelligent enough to hold down a job should be able to avoid sleeping with and abducting an underage girl.


 
/thread


----------



## Thora (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> no, it doesn't - but the idea that she should not be punished for a moment of madness that she immediately regretted is undermined by the fact that their first action upon realising what had happened wasn't to call an ambulance, it was to call the police to claim the child had been abducted.
> 
> i have no problem with the concept that people can be affected by MH problems that so fundamentally compromise their ability to think rationally that they cannot be held accountable for their actions - my problem is that one utter fcukwit (who very obviously has some kind of problem with decision making, boundaries, self-image, and reality) who shouldn't be in charge of a bag of crisps let alone a bunch of children gets the book thrown at him (not, imv, a problem), while another is treated with sympathy. both fell short of what they should have done because of a failure to think/be able to think, but for one its a tradegy, for another its a hanging offence.


Sorry, are you saying Forrest had some sort of psychosis that made him have sex with and abduct a schoolgirl?  Surprised that wasn't mentioned at the trial.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

Thora said:


> Sorry, are you saying Forrest had some sort of psychosis that made him have sex with and abduct a schoolgirl? Surprised that wasn't mentioned at the trial.


kebabking just brought up an unconnected case to make some kind of shit point, they're still arguing about that.


----------



## Thora (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> kebabking just brought up an unconnected case to make some kind of shit point, they're still arguing about that.


Yes, I'm wondering why he is trying to connect postnatal psychosis/infanticide with sleeping with a schoolgirl though


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> TBH this just sounds like "_a how dare you waste my time by going not guilty_" sentence than anything else.



It was a clear case of march the gulity barstard in sgt major.
 Teacher slept with 15yr old  guilty
 Then legged it too france brought back in chains.

 What exactly was the defences arguement it wasnt me?


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

aren't there two sentences here - 1 year for abduction, with which he'd technically walk out of court a free man, and 4 years for sex with a child?


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

Thora said:


> Yes, I'm wondering why he is trying to connect postnatal psychosis/infanticide with sleeping with a schoolgirl though


i made a weak joke about sentence lengths, he was replying to that originally. my bad.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

likesfish said:


> What exactly was the defences arguement it wasnt me?


 
He didn't put forward a defence.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 21, 2013)

Thora said:


> Sorry, are you saying Forrest had some sort of psychosis that made him have sex with and abduct a schoolgirl? Surprised that wasn't mentioned at the trial.


 
no, nothing on the lines/severity of a psychosis, but he is definately not a 'normally' mature 30 yo man. he's a very sad (by which i mean pathetic) peter-pan man/child who is fundamentally unable to grasp the demands of adulthood or his job.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He didn't put forward a defence.


 
Why is was the sentence harsh in your opinion, LBJ?


----------



## Thora (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> no, nothing on the lines/severity of a psychosis, but he is definately not a 'normally' mature 30 yo man. he's a very sad (by which i mean pathetic) peter-pan man/child who is fundamentally unable to grasp the demands of adulthood or his job.


Surely there's a big difference between being a nasty or pathetic person who does bad things and suffering from such appalling psychosis that you harm your own baby?


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> TBH this just sounds like "_a how dare you waste my time by going not guilty_" sentence than anything else.


 
He got the five and half years for offences that were only put to him for the first time this morning. He only got 12 months for the abduction offence he's been on trial for and in theory could've walked free With remand time if he hadn't pleaded guilty to the new charges.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Why is was the sentence harsh in your opinion, LBJ?


He abused a position of trust. But he appears to me to be stupid and unbelievably foolish rather than evil. I'm not generally in favour of locking people up at all unless they represent a danger to the rest of us, but setting that aside as it's a larger discussion, and assuming a system in which people are locked up even where they're not an ongoing danger, I fail to see the purpose served by a long sentence. It's a sorry situation all round.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

kebabking said:


> aren't there two sentences here - 1 year for abduction, with which he'd technically walk out of court a free man, and 4 years for sex with a child?


 
I wonder if it was put to him that by pleading guilty to the sex charges he'd save any cross-examination of the key witness?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> He got the five and half years for offences that were only put to him for the first time this morning. He only got 12 months for the abduction offence he's been on trial for and in theory could've walked free With remand time if he hadn't pleaded guilty to the new charges.


 
WTF are you on about?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

Edit got confused


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He abused a position of trust. But he appears to me to be stupid and unbelievably foolish rather than evil. I'm not generally in favour of locking people up at all unless they represent a danger to the rest of us, but setting that aside as it's a larger discussion, and assuming a system in which people are locked up even where they're not an ongoing danger, I fail to see the purpose served by a long sentence. It's a sorry situation all round.


 

But the other side of the argument is that justice needs to be seen to be done to encourage other victims of abuse to come forwards. Why would say a person who's been raped go through all the emotional trauma that a trial will bring about if the accused is going to get a lenient sentence?


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> WTF are you on about?


 
 Can't read? Don't have a basic understanding of legal lingo or are you just a thick cunt?


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> WTF are you on about?


 
He was only charged with the abduction initially, he wasnt officially facing the sex offences until this morning, apparently because of the way he was extradited from France (possibly because it wasnt an offence to sleep with the girl under French law, where the age of consent is 15).


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He abused a position of trust. But he appears to me to be stupid and unbelievably foolish rather than evil. I'm not generally in favour of locking people up at all unless they represent a danger to the rest of us, but setting that aside as it's a larger discussion, and assuming a system in which people are locked up even where they're not an ongoing danger, I fail to see the purpose served by a long sentence. It's a sorry situation all round.


 

And another thing, he listened to My Chemical Romance, ffs.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> And another thing, he listened to My Chemical Romance, ffs.


 
I knew they'd be to blame.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> But the other side of the argument is that justice needs to be seen to be done to encourage other victims of abuse to come forwards. Why would say a person who's been raped go through all the emotional trauma that a trial will bring about if the accused is going to get a lenient sentence?


In this case, the victim of the abuse doesn't see herself as a victim of abuse, so I don't see how that applies here. It's unfortunate that the same word rape is applied to two very different situations. I don't think it helps. Having sex with a 15-year-old and forcing yourself on a woman against her will are not the same kind of thing, imo.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> He got the five and half years for offences that were only put to him for the first time this morning. He only got 12 months for the abduction offence he's been on trial for and in theory could've walked free With remand time if he hadn't pleaded guilty to the new charges.


 
Doubt it, they would have just retried him for the new offences if he had gone not guilty and he would have ended up getting even longer.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> He was only charged with the abduction initially, he wasnt officially facing the sex offences until this morning, apparently because of the way he was extradited from France (possibly because it wasnt an offence to sleep with the girl under French law, where the age of consent is 15).


 
So no one had any idea the charges were coming? Which is the spin that the idiot above is putting on it. The media did but were under reporting restrictions. That he would be found guilty and have a heavier sentence if he fought them is pretty likely. (So, the idiot above again offering legal advice is not really one to be listened to).


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> Doubt it, they would have just retried him for the new offences if he had gone not guilty and he would have ended up getting even longer.


 
That's true. At least he admitted it. Many would've just  risked denying that any sex took place.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> That's true. At least he admitted it. Many would've just risked denying that any sex took place.


 
If he took your legal advice that's what he would have done. Then done more. Hey, at least you know legal lingo though.


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> So no one had any idea the charges were coming? Which is the spin that the idiot above is putting on it. The media did but were under reporting restrictions. That he would be found guilty and have a heavier sentence if he fought them is pretty likely. (So, the idiot above again offering legal advice is not really one to be listened to).


 
Which idiot suggested that then? Jumped in feet first again haven't you? Isn't it too early for you to be getting pissed up and acting aggressive on message boards?


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> So no one had any idea the charges were coming? Which is the spin that the idiot above is putting on it. The media did but were under reporting restrictions. That he would be found guilty and have a heavier sentence if he fought them is pretty likely. (So, the idiot above again offering legal advice is not really one to be listened to).


 
I would have thought the possibility that further charges would be added would have been obvious to everyone involved in this. It does also beg the question of why on earth he pled not guilty, since its hard to see how on earth they could have been added on if he had admitted it - they wouldnt have come out in evidence.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> Which idiot suggested that then? Jumped in feet first again haven't you? Isn't it too early for you to be getting pissed up and acting aggressive on message boards?


 
I think your hyperventilating that the hefty sentence was due to the additional charges suggests you think he should not have pleaded guilty this morning. So you.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He abused a position of trust. But he appears to me to be stupid and unbelievably foolish rather than evil. I'm not generally in favour of locking people up at all unless they represent a danger to the rest of us, but setting that aside as it's a larger discussion, and assuming a system in which people are locked up even where they're not an ongoing danger, I fail to see the purpose served by a long sentence. It's a sorry situation all round.


 
You don't have to be evil to go to jail. Evil doesn't even come into it. He groomed a child under his care and he in the eyes of the law raped her (is that right?) he then abducted her. 

It's actually pretty disgusting that anyone (not you lbj) can imply it was her fault in any way. My kids would live off chocolate bars and crisps if I let them, it would be their decision but I would still be a cunt if I allowed them. Crappy analogy but you get my point - children do not lead on adults or get to decide certain things for themselves about their own safety and health...because they are kids and they have a lot to learn and our job is to teach and protect them.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> I would have thought the possibility that further charges would be added would have been obvious to everyone involved in this. It does also beg the question of why on earth he pled not guilty, since its hard to see how on earth they could have been added on if he had admitted it - they wouldnt have come out in evidence.


 
Must look up who represented him. Not sure i would go near.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Must look up who represented him. Not sure i would go near.


 
Perhaps, though a decision that daft is usually down to the client.  That they didnt offer any defence at all certainly suggests so.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> men in skinny jeans must have disproportionatly small genitals imo


and quite proud of them I am too


Spanky Longhorn said:


> Men with less than 34" waists are no men at all no offence


you asking me for a fight?


Louis MacNeice said:


> 32 32 in a Levi 501...and last time I looked definitely a man (copyright E. Morecambe).
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


pah, fatty


Spoiler



just in case I get misunderstood:


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> Perhaps, though a decision that daft is usually down to the client. That they didnt offer any defence at all certainly suggests so.


 
Yes, wouldn't surprise me at all in this case.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Must look up who represented him. Not sure i would go near.


according to this, it was this partner.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Paul T said:


> according to this, it was this partner.


 
Ta, i think agricola may have explained it though.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 21, 2013)

Why are (some) people saying the girl's life has been destroyed though? It hasn't - She had a  sexual relationship with a creepy older guy (which she'll probably regret in years to come), but he's now doing time (rightly, he abused his position as a teacher and it's only fair that he answers for it), but her life hasn't been ruined though - Except for being plastered all over the papers and the internet anyway. She shagged some guy who she probably shouldn't have - A cause for regret not fucking _life ruination_, let her move on FFS.


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I think your hyperventilating that the hefty sentence was due to the additional charges suggests you think he should not have pleaded guilty this morning. So you.


 
Yep, bottle of frosty jack for breakfadt and your best size 12 wading boots. You big internet hard man.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

Paul T said:


> according to this, it was this partner.


 
Bit of a contrast between the quote in the first link and what they did at trial, tbh.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2013)

Anyone defending this berk needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

 Even if the 15yr old dressed up in the latest ann summers sexy ladywear and was asking for it.

She was 15 verboten and he was her teacher allegedly an adult.
 So his dick might have been saying " hmm youngling flesh lets shag it"
 Men at least pretending to be adult dont shag under age kids and most teachers dont shag pupils its against the rules.

If your 30 and think your on the same level as a 15 year old girl you have more fucking problems than being jailed for being a sex case.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Why are (some) people saying the girl's life has been destroyed though? It hasn't - She had a sexual relationship with a creepy older guy (which she'll probably regret in years to come), but he's now doing time (rightly, he abused his position as a teacher and it's only fair that he answers for it), but her life hasn't been ruined though - Except for being plastered all over the papers and the internet anyway. She shagged some guy who she probably shouldn't have - A cause for regret not fucking _life ruination_, let her move on FFS.


stop for a second and think what it _might_ have done to her head and also how *ALL* of her future relationship will be shaped by this then get back to me

eta: I'm not saying destroyed but I guess: comprehensively mindfucked


----------



## Giles (Jun 21, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> stop for a second and think what it _might_ have done to her head and also how *ALL* of her future relationship will be shaped by this then get back to me
> 
> eta: I'm not saying destroyed but I guess: comprehensively mindfucked


 
Oh, come on. If having an early relationship that you later regret, is going to "mindfuck" you, then you're probably doomed to be "mindfucked" anyway. People move on.

Giles..


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Why are (some) people saying the girl's life has been destroyed though? It hasn't - She had a sexual relationship with a creepy older guy (which she'll probably regret in years to come), but he's now doing time (rightly, he abused his position as a teacher and it's only fair that he answers for it), but her life hasn't been ruined though - Except for being plastered all over the papers and the internet anyway. She shagged some guy who she probably shouldn't have - A cause for regret not fucking _life ruination_, let her move on FFS.


 
According to the BBC, she has fallen out with her mother and no longer lives at home.


----------



## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

Giles said:


> Oh, come on. If having an early relationship that you later regret, is going to "mindfuck" you, then you're probably doomed to be "mindfucked" anyway. People move on.
> 
> Giles..


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 21, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> stop for a second and think what it _might_ have done to her head and also how *ALL* of her future relationship will be shaped by this then get back to me
> 
> eta: I'm not saying destroyed but I guess: comprehensively mindfucked


 
Her life hasn't been destroyed - Everyone's future relationships are (for better or worse) coloured by the past. She's not mindfucked, she had an ill-advised relationship, it's not the end of the world is it? If all goes well, she'll grow up a bit, realise her relationship with Jeremy was a bit OMG, and make miming fingers down her throat throwing up  gestures when describing it to her mates.

Jeremy deserves every day of the time he's been given but don't write this girls life off as well, she can move on & she'll probably be alright - Is casting her in the role of a ruined victim for the rest of her life really in her best interests?


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> According to the BBC, she has fallen out with her mother and no longer lives at home.


 

Not to throw fuel on the fire with idle speculation (which is what I am about to do anyway) but it could be the case that things were going on at home that added to this situation, stuff that the girl doesn't want to bring up in court because it wouldn't help the situation.

Note. I am not justifying the actions of the teacher bloke. He is 100% wrong.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

agricola said:


> According to the BBC, she has fallen out with her mother and no longer lives at home.


tbh this is exactly the kind of detail I'm very uneasy about being in the public domain. Her name is protected, but despite this, dribbles of reports about her private life come out and are reported by the BBC, of all people. I agree with FL. Public discussion of her life isn't likely to help her.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Giles said:


> Oh, come on. If having an early relationship that you later regret, is going to "mindfuck" you, then you're probably doomed to be "mindfucked" anyway. People move on.
> 
> Giles..


 
Fuck it then, get the mindfucking in early as possible. Giles.


----------



## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> she had an ill-advised relationship


 

Interesting way to describe an abusive relationship.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

How is being the victim of childhood sexual abuse by an adult in a position of power and trust supposed to be something people are to get over with no repercussions?


----------



## g force (Jun 21, 2013)

Summation here: http://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-jeremy-forrest

_I have seen nothing in the evidence which shows that at any stage you tried to provide proper boundaries between yourself and her, to discourage her, or let other staff deal with the matter appropriately. Indeed all the evidence shows that you encouraged her infatuation and provided opportunities for her to communicate with you and be alone with you - See more at: http://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-jeremy-forrest#sthash.OT0DrI2V.dpuf_


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 21, 2013)

Garek said:


> Interesting way to describe an abusive relationship.


 
Not interesting at all. Unless you're wanking over it? It was an abusive relationship, no question. Alls I'm saying is though, is don't fucking write the girl off as a victim for the rest of her days, she's only fifteen, she can move on. If people let her.


----------



## cdg (Jun 21, 2013)

Giles said:


> Oh, come on. If having an early relationship that you later regret, is going to "mindfuck" you, then you're probably doomed to be "mindfucked" anyway. People move on.
> 
> Giles..


 
What a knob head.

Second time I've said that to you today.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Not interesting at all. Unless you're wanking over it? It was an abusive relationship, no question. Alls I'm saying is though, is don't fucking write the girl off as a victim for the rest of her days, she's only fifteen, she can move on. If people let her.


 
Help/let.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> How is being the victim of childhood sexual abuse by an adult in a position of power and trust supposed to be something people are to get over with no repercussions?


 
No one's saying that, dickhead.


----------



## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Not interesting at all. Unless you're wanking over it? It was an abusive relationship, no question. Alls I'm saying is though, is don't fucking write the girl off as a victim for the rest of her days, she's only fifteen, she can move on. If people let her.


 

It's nice that you think this can be shrugged off as just something a bit 'icky'.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2013)

If you fancy throwing up in your mouth, Luke "9 inches" Bozier's both complaining that;

a) the sentence is disproportionate

b) the age of consent should be lowered

c) that other countries have pupil/teacher relationships, quoting odd article

d) he would have done his 'sexy tease' of a science teacher at school

Fucking hell


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 21, 2013)

Garek said:


> It's nice that you think this can be shrugged off as just something a bit 'icky'.


 
Is it nice? yeah? Nice one for completely misinterpreting what I was on about though - I never advocated "shrugging it off", Forrest  deserves to do every day/second/whatever of the time he's been given. I'm saying though, that writing this girl off as a victim and saying her life's ruined probably won't help her to move on.


----------



## Garek (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Is it nice? yeah? Nice one for completely misinterpreting what I was on about though - I never advocated "shrugging it off", Forrest deserves to do every day/second/whatever of the time he's been given. I'm saying though, that writing this girl off as a victim and saying her life's ruined probably won't help her to move on.


 

"Misinterpreted"? 



> - *Everyone's future relationships are (for better or worse) coloured by the past*. She's not mindfucked,* she had an ill-advised relationship,* it's not the end of the world is it? If all goes well, *she'll grow up a bit, realise her relationship with Jeremy was a bit OMG, and make miming fingers down her throat throwing up gestures* when describing it to her mates.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 21, 2013)

An wot?


----------



## Giles (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> What a knob head.
> 
> Second time I've said that to you today.


 
I am not keeping count, cunt!


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

Balbi said:


> If you fancy throwing up in your mouth, Luke "9 inches" Bozier's both complaining that;
> 
> a) the sentence is disproportionate
> 
> ...


 
Nonce-sense from Bozier?


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> fair enough between a counsellor/therapist etc and their patient maybe in which case it's not the age gap rather than the relationship itself which makes the power imbalance. It is however not the same even then between tutor and pupil imo - there is a danger of infantilising the pupil in your example imo


Not just patients - students. But I'm not going to hijack the thread to get into semantic arguments about the specifics - my point was that abuse of a position of trust isn't just about ages, and I think that point stands even if we leave my tutor/student argument out of it.


----------



## cesare (Jun 21, 2013)

Paul T said:


> according to this, it was this partner.


Not instructed counsel?


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (Jun 21, 2013)

Something I was wondering earlier.

If this young girl decided she wanted to visit him in prison whats to stop her? Are there any rules in place to ensure he can't continue to influence her?


----------



## Favelado (Jun 21, 2013)

From what I'm reading, it does sound like this girl had problems with self-harming, there are hints of trouble at home too. She really did need a teacher, a social worker, some kind of adult in a position of authority who could comfort her appropriately and help her get advice and support. If a teenage girl comes to you as an adult man, confides in you that she's upset, maybe that she cuts herself or something terrible like that and your answer is to respond with sexual attention instead of immediately consulting peers and the kind of organisations that can help - you're a fucking cunt. I'm not saying it would have been okay to do this to a less vulnerable girl, but I do think this hints at something worse than naivety and puts it in a worse class of offence.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> Something I was wondering earlier.
> 
> If this young girl decided she wanted to visit him in prison whats to stop her? Are there any rules in place to ensure he can't continue to influence her?


so you're asking that if she visits him in prison of her own volition are there rules to prevent his influencing her?


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 21, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> Something I was wondering earlier.
> 
> If this young girl decided she wanted to visit him in prison whats to stop her? Are there any rules in place to ensure he can't continue to influence her?


 
Sex Offenders Registration, perhaps?

I'm not sure how it works in prison, but he would be banned from having unsupervised contact with a child. So she'd have to get an adult to agree to go with her. Unless prison visitor's room counts as supervised as presumably there'd be guards there (I have no idea what a prison visiting room actually looks like; just going off what I've seen on telly)?


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

She's a minor so would presumably need consent from her parents / guardians and the fact he's on the register.


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> so you're asking that if she visits him in prison of her own volition are there rules to prevent his influencing her?


 
No I'm asking if she would be able to go and visit him without any barriers.

Cheers Firky and Fez909. Hopefully the parents have enough common sense to keep her away


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> No I'm asking if she would be able to go and visit him without any barriers.
> 
> Cheers Firky and Fez909


 
Or her manipulating him - legally this time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> No I'm asking if she would be able to go and visit him without any barriers.
> 
> Cheers Firky and Fez909


he's in prison, of course there will be a number of barriers.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> he's in prison, of course there will be a number of barriers.


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> he's in prison, of course there will be a number of barriers.


 go figure


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2013)

In loco parentis. Sexual relationship. 5 years isn't long enough.

Might be a tad biased though. As yet, my lot haven't had the full paedononce hype machine hit us. Fucks like Forrest just make life harder.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

> Lenny Newman 22 hours ago
> Let's face it. This guy was royally fucked over by our anti-male, feminist society. He did not abduct *****, she went willingly. And the relationship was consensual, and, quite frankly, there was zero wrong with it. As usual, the liberal-Left demonise the man while letting the woman off scot free.


 
This is why I stick to urban for discussing current affairs.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 21, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> No I'm asking if she would be able to go and visit him without any barriers.
> 
> Cheers Firky and Fez909. Hopefully the parents have enough common sense to keep her away


 
At the bottom of the judgement it also says he was given an indefinite SOPO (sexual offences preventative order) which is a bit like an ASBO I think. The judge can put just about anything in them, so it might have a condition of "stay away from x until she's 18" in there.

I guess after 18 there's not much anyone can do.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Balbi said:


> If you fancy throwing up in your mouth, Luke "9 inches" Bozier's both complaining that;
> 
> a) the sentence is disproportionate
> 
> ...


 
surely Luke "child pornography on computer" Bozier?


----------



## Clair De Lune (Jun 21, 2013)

I remember coming on to a much older man when I was 14...well flirting with him certainly. I remember being ever so dizzy, flattered and excited when he replied that I was beautiful but he couldn't do anything in case anyone found out. Looking back it makes me sick tbh, he should have told me to fuck right off.


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Clair De Lune said:


> I remember coming on to a much older man when I was 14...well flirting with him certainly. I remember being ever so dizzy, flattered and excited when he replied that I was beautiful but he couldn't do anything in case anyone found out. Looking back it makes me sick tbh, he should have told me to fuck right off.


 

Feels like there is a happy medium between the two extreme responses, paying you a compliment and then just flat shutting it down seems reasonable.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> surely Luke "child pornography on computer" Bozier?


 

Luke "accepted a caution but maintains innocence" Bozier. See also; Saatchi, Charles.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Feels like there is a happy medium between the two extreme responses, paying you a compliment and then just flat shutting it down seems reasonable.


 
yeah there was more to it than that tbf. Telling his mates he was agonising over the decision and them telling me he liked me etc. For guys in their thirties it was WRONG.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Feels like there is a happy medium between the two extreme responses, paying you a compliment and then just flat shutting it down seems reasonable.


 
That was my initial thought as well, but when you read it back he says the only thing stopping him was if someone found out; not that she was too young for him.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Feels like there is a happy medium between the two extreme responses, paying you a compliment and then just flat shutting it down seems reasonable.



What about keeping whatever compliment to yourself and telling them to fuck off, is that not an option ?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Feels like there is a happy medium between the two extreme responses, paying you a compliment and then just flat shutting it down seems reasonable.


 
What are the extreme responses here?


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> What about keeping whatever compliment to yourself and telling them to fuck off, is that not an option ?



Because by telling them they're beautiful you're only encouraging such advances.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> What about keeping whatever compliment to yourself and telling them to fuck off, is that not an option ?


telling people to 'fuck off' is a good general idea.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> telling people to 'fuck off' is a good general idea.



Especially maths teachers


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Especially maths teachers


 

This is the backlash against maths teachers I feared.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> This is the backlash against maths teachers I feared.


 

They're part of the equation.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

There's only a fraction of them at it though.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> There's only a fraction of them at it though.


 

That's about the sum of it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> There's only a fraction of them at it though.


but what about standard deviation?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

why didn't people act sooner - the sines were there ages ago


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> but what about standard deviation?


 

That line of thinking just doesn't add up.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

I get the feeling some of you have an axiom to grind.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Of course not. But for some of the remarkably outspoken posters on here they've taken it far too literally.
> 
> Urban, bastion of balanced discussion.


Mostly, it is. Go and have a look at some of the other fora on the web, and you'll find it's mostly screaming mobs waving pitchforks and yelling PEDO!!! And dare to suggest a more nuanced point of view and they'll start on you. I know you've taken a few hits on this thread, but it's nothing compared to the idiocies available out there...


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> I get the feeling some of you have an axiom to grind.


 

To a certain degree you're right.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

I don't think there is a subject in the world that is too taboo for bad puns and your mum jokes. 

*wipes joyful tear from eye*


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

Before you feckers regress any further...get back OT.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> I don't think there is a subject in the world that is too taboo for bad puns and your mum jokes.
> 
> *wipes joyful tear from eye*


don't try and take us off on a tangent


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 21, 2013)

I think making maths puns on this thread is mean.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> I think making maths puns on this thread is mean.


don't be so square


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Clair De Lune said:


> You don't have to be evil to go to jail. Evil doesn't even come into it. He groomed a child under his care and he in the eyes of the law raped her (is that right?) he then abducted her.
> 
> It's actually pretty disgusting that anyone (not you lbj) can imply it was her fault in any way. My kids would live off chocolate bars and crisps if I let them, it would be their decision but I would still be a cunt if I allowed them. Crappy analogy but you get my point - children do not lead on adults or get to decide certain things for themselves about their own safety and health...because they are kids and they have a lot to learn and our job is to teach and protect them.


Actually, I think that's a good analogy.

By 15, most children/young people are pretty good at making short- and immediate-term decisions that will be in their best interests, and most will have a pretty well-developed decision making capability. What they will still not be good at is impulse control, and making longer-term decisions on the basis of experience. So they'll know they need to eat - they may even know they need to eat healthily - but that won't stop them being unable to stop themselves reaching for the chocolate bars and crisps rather than the broccoli. We, as adults, are the ones who are expected to know better, whether it's five-a-day or hopping into bed.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 21, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> I think making maths puns on this thread is mean.


 
You're very average yet somehow de mode.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 21, 2013)

Favelado said:


> You're very average yet somehow de mode.


 
Average is about right. My t-shirt size is median.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

Significance?


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Edit

Sorry, if anyone read that. It was a bad taste joke and not a daft pun.  Out of order.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

Why are you taking this divisive angle?


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

His actions were calculated.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

..added to which...


----------



## andysays (Jun 21, 2013)

This maths teacher is obviously unable to differentiate between right and wrong.

I hope the girl will be able to integrate back into normal teenage life now.


----------



## pogofish (Jun 21, 2013)

likesfish said:


> If your 30 and think your on the same level as a 15 year old girl you have more fucking problems than being jailed for being a sex case.


 
He's from Inverurie - that's problems enough!

And TBH, there does seem to be an issue with thirtysomething guys who never quite grow-up from these Aberdeenshire semi-rural dormitory towns.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> His actions were calculated.


 
What are you bayesian that statement on?


----------



## geminisnake (Jun 21, 2013)

pogofish said:


> And TBH, there does seem to be an issue with thirtysomething guys who never quite grow-up from these Aberdeenshire semi-rural dormitory towns.


 
You get them everyfeckingwhere mr fish. Doesn't make it any better obv


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2013)

Oh yeah, cos child abuse is funny


----------



## Favelado (Jun 21, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Oh yeah, cos child abuse is funny


 
It's neither funny nor frivolous enough to be demeaned with smilies.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2013)

I'll tan your hide


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2013)

Anyway, I better sine off for now


----------



## Favelado (Jun 21, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Anyway, I better sine off for now


 

cos you're a pussy.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2013)

Favelado said:


> cos you're a pussy.


 

*reports to the pogofish joke police*


----------



## Favelado (Jun 21, 2013)

*leaves thread in disgrace*


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Page 69.

NO JOKES


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

pogofish said:


> He's from Inverurie - that's problems enough!
> 
> And TBH, there does seem to be an issue with thirtysomething guys who never quite grow-up from these Aberdeenshire semi-rural dormitory towns.


 
you can see a correlation?


----------



## pogofish (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> you can see a correlation?


 
Anecdotally, possibly.  I'd be interested to see it looked into further.


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> he's in prison, of course there will be a number of barriers.


 
Apparently she has already applied for visiting orders to see him...


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Why are (some) people saying the girl's life has been destroyed though? It hasn't - She had a sexual relationship with a creepy older guy (which she'll probably regret in years to come), but he's now doing time (rightly, he abused his position as a teacher and it's only fair that he answers for it), but her life hasn't been ruined though - Except for being plastered all over the papers and the internet anyway. She shagged some guy who she probably shouldn't have - A cause for regret not fucking _life ruination_, let her move on FFS.


I don't think we can predict that this will have definitely destroyed her life, but.

In persisting with this relationship, Forrest has led her along in an infatuation which may well colour her relationships with men quite profoundly for a while to come. She is likely, for a start, to withdraw from much emotional contact with her peers - the role of loyal mate of the wronged man will come easily to a 15 year old who already appears to have a few difficulties, and she will probably find that this relationship has created an uncomfortable distance from friends (teenagers are notoriously conservative, for all that they also want to be edgy and "different") of both sexes.

Infatuations with similar-aged peers tend to burn hot and fast, and be over quite quickly - that's a natural and rather healthy state of affairs, as it enables teenagers to build up some good experience (and resilience) in the relationship game. As we grow older, we naturally tend to slow the pace down - this girl's (possibly) first experience of a significant sexual relationship, though, has been with someone who will have, unconsciously or deliberately, been setting up very different expectations. She may well have idealised that type of relationship, and find it very difficult to adjust back to the nature of intimate peer relationships again.

So, no - he hasn't *ruined* her life. But he has quite possibly changed it quite significantly, and in a way which is unlikely (though not impossible) to end up being a healthy or constructive way. He has abused her, whatever the severity of the effects.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

cdg said:


> What a knob head.
> 
> Second time I've said that to you today.


Giles doesn't really "do" emotional sensitivity. If it can't be expressed in units of currency, I don't think he's much interested.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> She's a minor so would presumably need consent from her parents / guardians and the fact he's on the register.


If she's still a minor, then standard safeguarding procedures would come into play - assuming they were implemented properly (big assumption), steps would be taken to prevent her seeing him.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Clair De Lune said:


> I remember coming on to a much older man when I was 14...well flirting with him certainly. I remember being ever so dizzy, flattered and excited when he replied that I was beautiful but he couldn't do anything in case anyone found out. Looking back it makes me sick tbh, he should have told me to fuck right off.


He should have, but most people don't get much in the way of training in these situations. I've sometimes wondered how I'd react in the situation. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't just tell the girl to "fuck off", though - I would hope that I'd find a gentler (though less creepy than your experience) way to make it very clear to her that nothing was doing.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2013)

Giles said:


> I am not keeping count,
> 
> *cunt!*


 
Interesting - Giles has changed the way he signs off on posts. He always used to use his name but now he's using his personal characteristics.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I don't think we can predict that this will have definitely destroyed her life, but.
> 
> In persisting with this relationship, Forrest has led her along in an infatuation which may well colour her relationships with men quite profoundly for a while to come. She is likely, for a start, to withdraw from much emotional contact with her peers - the role of loyal mate of the wronged man will come easily to a 15 year old who already appears to have a few difficulties, and she will probably find that this relationship has created an uncomfortable distance from friends (teenagers are notoriously conservative, for all that they also want to be edgy and "different") of both sexes.
> 
> ...


 
That's an interesting post. You've changed my mind on this issue rather.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> By 15, most children/young people are pretty good at making short- and immediate-term decisions that will be in their best interests, and most will have a pretty well-developed decision making capability. What they will still not be good at is impulse control, and making longer-term decisions on the basis of experience. *So they'll know they need to eat - they may even know they need to eat healthily - but that won't stop them being unable to stop themselves reaching for the chocolate bars and crisps rather than the broccoli. We, as adults, are the ones who are expected to know better, whether it's five-a-day or hopping into bed.*


 
To be fair to the kids I'm 34 and still utterly incapable of doing this


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2013)

Balbi said:


> If you fancy throwing up in your mouth, Luke "9 inches" Bozier's both complaining that;
> 
> a) the sentence is disproportionate
> 
> ...


 
Is there no opportunity he will seek to exploit for his own ends?


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 21, 2013)

89 Til Infinity said:


> Apparently she has already applied for visiting orders to see him...



VO's are sent out at the request of the prisoner, not applied for by those wishing to visit. 

Something will have gone very wrong if she is allowed/supported to visit him.


----------



## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

The sentence was fair, the teacher sexually exploited a pupil under his care and on top of that he also abducted her. She was groomed by a predator in a position of power. He is a classic paedo in that he actually believes it was equal love and consensual, despite the context. I hope he gets a beating or two in prison.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> The sentence was fair, the teacher sexually exploited a pupil under his care and on top of that he also abducted her. She was groomed by a predator in a position of power. He is a classic paedo in that he actually believes it was equal love and consensual, despite the context. I hope he gets a beating or two in prison.


ARGH!

He's not a "paedo". Read the thread.

And I don't wish a kicking on him. It will probably happen, and it's to be expected, but wishing that kind of thing on a fragile, pathetic shell of a man who couldn't make it happen with an adult and had to turn to schoolgirls...well, that's just a cunt's trick.


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## Manter (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> ARGH!
> 
> He's not a "paedo". Read the thread.
> 
> And I don't wish a kicking on him. It will probably happen, and it's to be expected, but wishing that kind of thing on a fragile, pathetic shell of a man who couldn't make it happen with an adult and had to turn to schoolgirls...well, that's just a cunt's trick.


He could make it happen with an adult- he was recently married!  He chose this path....
I agree with the vast majority of what you say btw- v sane posts


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> ARGH!
> 
> He's not a "paedo". Read the thread.
> 
> And I don't wish a kicking on him. It will probably happen, and it's to be expected, but wishing that kind of thing on a fragile, pathetic shell of a man who couldn't make it happen with an adult and had to turn to schoolgirls...well, that's just a cunt's trick.


 

People use the term paedophile as an umbrella term. The CPS used the term themselves on the news this morning.


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## Favelado (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> ARGH!
> 
> He's not a "paedo". Read the thread.
> 
> And I don't wish a kicking on him. It will probably happen, and it's to be expected, but wishing that kind of thing on a fragile, pathetic shell of a man who couldn't make it happen with an adult and had to turn to schoolgirls...well, that's just a cunt's trick.


 
Actually - how will he be treated in prison? Will they make a distinction between what he's done and other sex offences?


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

I read the thread and I just don't agree with the ambient liberal perspective.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

You have Danny Dwyer as your avatar.


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## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Manter said:


> He could make it happen with an adult- he was recently married! He chose this path....
> I agree with the vast majority of what you say btw- v sane posts


A marriage which was apparently seriously dysfunctional from the outset...


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## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> I read the thread and I just don't agree with the ambient liberal perspective.


Fine. Does that mean you *have* to resort to hyperbolic distortion, then? Because if that is what your viewpoint requires, I think I'll hang on to my boringly fact-based liberalism, if it's all the same to you


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## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Actually - how will he be treated in prison? Will they make a distinction between what he's done and other sex offences?


I don't suppose many of the prison population are much given to nuanced and considered examination of the facts. I imagine he'll be regarded as a "nonce", and (mal)treated accordingly.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I don't suppose many of the prison population are much given to nuanced and considered examination of the facts. I imagine he'll be regarded as a "nonce", and (mal)treated accordingly.


 
He'll be in his cell most of the time and in a special wing of the prison the rest of the time. They tend to keep 'them' separate from the rest of the inmate population to stop prison style justice. He'll have plenty time to write creepy songs.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I don't suppose many of the prison population are much given to *nonced* and considered examination of the facts. I imagine he'll be regarded as a "nonce", and (mal)treated accordingly.


 
corrected for you


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

Having sex with a child at 15 as an adult makes you a paedophile: I know this as I have the pleasure of teaching on a child safeguarding module. I have also worked with both children/teenagers that are sexually exploited - as well as the paedophiles that do this.


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## Manter (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> A marriage which was apparently seriously dysfunctional from the outset...


No marriage where your husband is grooming a child for jollies can be considered functional, true


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## Clair De Lune (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> He should have, but most people don't get much in the way of training in these situations. I've sometimes wondered how I'd react in the situation. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't just tell the girl to "fuck off", though - I would hope that I'd find a gentler (though less creepy than your experience) way to make it very clear to her that nothing was doing.


 
I know, I didn't mean that literally. I have had to turn young men down...admittedly not that young, but say 18. I usually say something like "I am very flattered but I couldn't date someone so much younger, sorry."


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Having sex with a child at 15 as an adult makes you a paedophile.


 
It makes you an ephebophile (sp). Not that it really matters.


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I don't think we can predict that this will have definitely destroyed her life, but.
> 
> In persisting with this relationship, Forrest has led her along in an infatuation which may well colour her relationships with men quite profoundly for a while to come. She is likely, for a start, to withdraw from much emotional contact with her peers - the role of loyal mate of the wronged man will come easily to a 15 year old who already appears to have a few difficulties, and she will probably find that this relationship has created an uncomfortable distance from friends (teenagers are notoriously conservative, for all that they also want to be edgy and "different") of both sexes.
> 
> ...


 

But under slightly different circumstances, if she'd been a few months older and he had been a family friend, then legally he would not be considered an abuser. Maybe she'll always be attracted to older men. I think the thing that will damage her the most is all the media attention, the trial and the public vitriol.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> But under slightly different circumstances, if she'd been a few months older and he had been a family friend, then legally he would not be considered an abuser. Maybe she'll always be attracted to older men. I think the thing that will damage her the most is all the media attention, the trial and the public vitriol.


 

The abuse goes back years, it only came to light when she was 15. 

None of us can really say how it'll effect her but I doubt it's going to have a positive effect on her.


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## Manter (Jun 21, 2013)

http://m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/jeremy-forrest-jailed-pupil-sex-abduction

Apparently the police are investigating whether he contacted her to affect her evidence as what sh said in court is different to what she said in police interviews- and, surprise surprise, the new version supported his defence. He really is a nasty piece of work....


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

Correction he is an Ephebophile, rather than a traditional Paedophile. Either way he is a sexual predator and has abused his professional power and sexually explored a child under his care.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

Clair De Lune said:


> You don't have to be evil to go to jail. Evil doesn't even come into it. He groomed a child under his care and he in the eyes of the law raped her (is that right?)


 
Nah, I think statutory rape (unable to consent) is 13 and under.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

Exploited not explored*


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Correction he is an Ephebophile, rather than a traditional Paedophile. Either way he is a sexual predator and has abused his professional power and sexually explored a child under his care.


 

Yes, we know. That's why he's been sentenced to 5 and a half years in prison. He knows he's done wrong as well and has accepted his sentence. If he is an ephebophile then I hope he gets some decent counselling while he's in prison.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Exploited not explored*


 
I did wonder about the level of detail you were going into there


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## UrbaneFox (Jun 21, 2013)

in response to Goldenecitrone

Fat chance.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> It makes you an ephebophile (sp). Not that it really matters.



Agree and have corrected, all though they reckon it took a fair while in the grooming so its a borderline issue.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I did wonder about the level of detail you were going into there



Using my phone which makes words up.


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## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> *None of us can really say how it'll effect her* but I doubt it's going to have a positive effect on her.


 
Exactly and as the song goes, the first cut is the deepest. Everyone has their personal heartbreak stories.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Using my phone which makes words up.


 
explored is a real word.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Yes, we know. That's why he's been sentenced to 5 and a half years in prison. He knows he's done wrong as well and has accepted his sentence. If he is an ephebophile then I hope he gets some decent counselling while he's in prison.



Lets all have a candle lit vigil for sexual predators.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Exactly and as the song goes, the first cut is the deepest. Everyone has their personal heartbreak stories.


 
Wow. After the abuser mouthing _i love you_ at the victim as well.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> explored is a real word.



But not the one I wanted.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> But not the one I wanted.


 
So don't accuse your phone of producing neologisms. Apologise.


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## Belushi (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Exactly and as the song goes, the first cut is the deepest. Everyone has their personal heartbreak stories.


 
Yeah her getting groomed for three years, abused and abducted by her maths teacher is just like getting dumped  by your first girlfriend


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Lets all have a candle lit vigil for sexual predators.


 

You do what suits your religious beliefs. Personally, I think he'd be better off with counselling.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Having sex with a child at 15 as an adult makes you a paedophile: I know this as I have the pleasure of teaching on a child safeguarding module. I have also worked with both children/teenagers that are sexually exploited - as well as the paedophiles that do this.


 
Technically it doesn't. Being sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children makes you a paedophile. Acting on that desire makes you a child abuser/rapist.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> A marriage which was apparently seriously dysfunctional from the outset...



Marriage on the rocks: it's ok to fuck a teenager you have a professional duty to safeguard and care for. What's your enlightened position on Jimmy Saville?


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> It makes you an ephebophile (sp). Not that it really matters.


 

Or that.


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Marriage on the rocks: it's ok to fuck a teenager you have a professional duty to safeguard and care for.


 

Fuck me, it's Mr. Logic.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Technically it doesn't. Being sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children makes you a paedophile. Acting on that desire makes you a child abuser/rapist.



I corrected this earlier, and a Paedo goes up to 14, so I reckon his grooming would fit this timescale.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Technically it doesn't. Being sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children makes you a paedophile. Acting on that desire makes you a child abuser/rapist.


 
Not if s/he loves you, then it's just the world greatest story gone wrong.


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not if s/he loves you, then it's just the world greatest story gone wrong.


 

You old softie.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not if s/he loves you, then it's just the world greatest story gone wrong.


 

I hope nobody but 'Jez' is arguing that!


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I hope nobody but 'Jez' is arguing that!


 
You missed grits post above?


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> I corrected this earlier, and a Paedo goes up to 14, so I reckon his grooming would fit this timescale.


 

You missed the attraction bit. It's possible to be a 'paedo' and not offend. Anyway, this is kind of pointless pedantry but it is urban!


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You missed grits post above?


 

Was playing catch up.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Exactly and as the song goes, the first cut is the deepest. Everyone has their personal heartbreak stories.


 

I thought your trolling days were behind you? Or is it some kind of incurable disorder?


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## Fez909 (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> You missed the attraction bit. It's possible to be a 'paedo' and not offend. Anyway, this is kind of pointless pedantry but it is urban!


 
And it's possible to offend and not be a paedo.


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## Thora (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> But under slightly different circumstances, if she'd been a few months older and he had been a family friend, then legally he would not be considered an abuser. Maybe she'll always be attracted to older men. I think the thing that will damage her the most is all the media attention, the trial and the public vitriol.


I would consider a married 30 year old man shagging a vulnerable 16 year old "family friend" fairly abusive too tbh.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I thought your trolling days were behind you? Or is it some kind of incurable disorder?


 
It ain't trolling. He never trolled once. He was just stupid and blamed it on the coke. Now, he is laid bare as just being stupid.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Agree and have corrected, all though they reckon it took a fair while in the grooming so its a borderline issue.


 

I think I read somewhere it started three years ago when she first started at the school so she'd have been about 12. Which sort of rules him out as being a plonker who got carried away and that it was just teenage infatuation for an older man.


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## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

I've not read the thread in full because I've been teaching all day till about an hour ago and my view is this - Any teacher that does something like this is abusing a position in which a golden unbreakable rule is 'don't become involved with the kids' - which is there for a very good reason. It's a clear rule, one that anyone who sets foot in a school should have tatooed on their soul. Quite apart from the speculation about the emotional damage on the individual, it also a duty to your fellow teachers, because every time a teacher does this, it erodes the trust in thousands of teachers, places them under scrutiny and makes it harder to do their job. As a union rep, I've dealt with a case of wrongful accusal (and I'm 100% this was an ungrounded accusation) and the process that teacher went through was demeaning, unpleasant and traumatising. The fact he went through it, is an indirect consequence of the action of people like this maths teacher. So I'm not bothered about the fine details of the case. You don't fuck the kids because it fucks them up and it fucks things up for everyone else who just wants to teach kids. I've also witnessed a couple of extremely screwed up predatory teachers at work and there needs to be clear consequences of such actions to discourage anyone with such motives even thinking about being a teacher. Of course kids aren't angels and they can be manipulative, and for want of a better word, behave in a sexualised way. But your job is to teach them and be way, way, way, beyond temptation - if you're not, get the fuck out of teaching.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Exactly and as the song goes, the first cut is the deepest. Everyone has their personal heartbreak stories.


 

Being groomed my a sexual predator for years doesn't really constitute as a heartbreak story. Not in any sane world anyway.


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## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Belushi said:


> Yeah her getting groomed for three years, abused and abducted by her maths teacher is just like getting dumped by your first girlfriend


 
Well considering her actions so far, she certainly seems to be behaving as if her love has been taken away from her, getting on the visitors list etc. Thats seperate from how anyone else views it, thats what this young woman appears to be experiencing.


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

What you need is a load of PTSD soldiers, just back from shooting kids in Iraq and Afghanistan, to gain access to the classroom. That'll sort things out.


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## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> You have Danny Dwyer as your avatar.


 
FARKING DO ONE, DWYER


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Well considering her actions so far, she certainly seems to be behaving as if her love has been taken away from her, getting on the visitors list etc. Thats seperate from how anyone else views it, thats what this young woman appears to be experiencing.


 
That's what grooming *is*.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Well considering her actions so far, she certainly seems to be behaving as if her love has been taken away from her, getting on the visitors list etc. Thats seperate from how anyone else views it, thats what this young woman appears to be experiencing.


 

I don't know any of her actions and neither do you.

Young woman? She's 15, ffs. Groomed.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> You do what suits your religious beliefs. Personally, I think he'd be better off with counselling.



Counselling what for? 

Child sex offenders have a complex rationale and story for their actions and it is a sexual orientation . You can't counsel someone out of their sexual orientation. You also have a limited impact with therapy that seeks behaviour change, due to the underlying schema of the individual offender. In this case he is not a victim and the punishment fits the crime. The only support he should get is effective surveillance and monitoring from probation ensuring he has no contact with children unsupervised in the future.


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## Belushi (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Well considering her actions so far, she certainly seems to be behaving as if her love has been taken away from her, getting on the visitors list etc. Thats seperate from how anyone else views it, thats what this young woman appears to be experiencing.


 
Oh I've got no doubt at all that she loves him, that isnt the point.


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## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> That's what grooming *is*.


 
Yes... thanks for that. He groomed, she fell in love/lust/whatever.


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## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Well considering her actions so far, she certainly seems to be behaving as if her love has been taken away from her, getting on the visitors list etc. Thats seperate from how anyone else views it, thats what this young woman appears to be experiencing.



That is grooming and long term sexual exploitation look at any of the serious case reviews. For years the girls believed they were in relationships with abusive older men.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Yes... thanks for that. He groomed, she fell in love/lust/whatever.


 
Now, follow through on this revelation...come on, there's a responsible adult at the end i promise you


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> It makes you an ephebophile (sp). Not that it really matters.


 
ephebophile is a made-up term used by nonces to try and scientifically excuse their predation on young women.  it's not recognised by the vast majority of psychologists or psychiatrists.  don't let them control the discourse by using their language.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Well considering her actions so far, she certainly seems to be behaving as if her love has been taken away from her, getting on the visitors list etc. Thats seperate from how anyone else views it, thats what this young woman appears to be experiencing.


 

Have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome? I'm not saying that she's experiencing that, but you certainly seem to have discounted all other avenues.


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## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> That is grooming and long term sexual exploitation look at any of the serious case reviews. For years the girls believed they were in relationships with abusive older men.


 
whatever. In grits world. Whatever.


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## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Belushi said:


> Oh I've got no doubt at all that she loves him, that isnt the point.


 
It was the point I was making with the first cut is the deepest comment.


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## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

For what it's worth, I also think its worse for a teacher to do this, than say, a bloke who is a builder or an estate agent and met a kid socially. There is no grounds to say 'the kid led me on' because the hypothetical builder/estate agent hasn't had the training to tell him 'don't do this' - he's not in a position, (aside from his abstract societal duty) that demands he takes a responsible role towards kids who are told by the system they are schooled in for most of their young lives to trust him. My students trust me - not because I'm an amazing teacher, but because they've been told year, upon year to trust people in my position. To abuse that would make me vile.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome? I'm not saying that she's experiencing that, but you certainly seem to have discounted all other avenues.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome? I'm not saying that she's experiencing that, but you certainly seem to have discounted all other avenues.


 
The point of grooming is to produce the results in the victim that grits now offers us as evidence of consent and just a love affair gone wrong.


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## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> For what it's worth, I also think its worse for a teacher to do this, than say, a bloke who is a builder or an estate agent and met a kid socially. There is no grounds to say 'the kid led me on' because the hypothetical builder/estate agent hasn't had the training to tell him 'don't do this' - he's not in a position, (aside from his abstract societal duty) that demands he takes a responsible role towards kids who are told by the system they are schooled in for most of their young lives to trust him. My students trust me - not because I'm an amazing teacher, but because they've been told year, upon year to trust people in my position. To abuse that would make me vile.


 

Exactly how I feel about this. Well put.


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## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome? I'm not saying that she's experiencing that, but you certainly seem to have discounted all other avenues.


 Yeah I certainly think there are a huge amount of similatires with stockholm syndrome, the "cell" is just a bit more subtle because its completely emotional.


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## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Can't say I agree, tangerinedream, none of us here have had any training and we (well them majority of us) seem to be able to understand that you don't do what Jeremy Forrest did.



butchersapron said:


> The point of grooming is to produce the results in the victim that grits now offers us as evidence of consent and just a love affair gone wrong.


 
Succinctly and perfectly put.


----------



## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> I think I read somewhere it started three years ago when she first started at the school so she'd have been about 12. Which sort of rules him out as being a plonker who got carried away and that it was just teenage infatuation for an older man.


 Firmly in the Paedo Zone then.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> For what it's worth, I also think its worse for a teacher to do this, than say, a bloke who is a builder or an estate agent and met a kid socially. There is no grounds to say 'the kid led me on' because the hypothetical builder/estate agent hasn't had the training to tell him 'don't do this' - he's not in a position, (aside from his abstract societal duty) that demands he takes a responsible role towards kids who are told by the system they are schooled in for most of their young lives to trust him. My students trust me - not because I'm an amazing teacher, but because they've been told year, upon year to trust people in my position. To abuse that would make me vile.


in all honesty i think most people, teachers, plumbers, builders, librarians - hell, even bankers - would realise that shagging someone not only underage but half your age whether you met them in the course of your work or not was a bad idea especially if your wife had been saying 'you don't want to do that' for some time. no special training needed imvho. tangerinedream you seem to be particularly aggrieved because you feel yer man has in some way made your job harder and not entirely because what he did was a) wrong and b) tawdry


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## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> in all honesty i think most people, teachers, plumbers, builders, librarians - hell, even bankers - would realise that shagging someone not only underage but half your age was a bad idea especially if your wife had been saying 'you don't want to do that' for some time. no special training needed imvho.


 
I think this is another point of information that supports what comes through in the anecdotal reporting about the guy. I'm not so sure that it was calculated malice as much as him being about the same maturity as a 15 year old/having some mental health issues.


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## brogdale (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> ephebophile is a made-up term used by nonces to try and scientifically excuse their predation on young women. it's not recognised by the vast majority of psychologists or psychiatrists. don't let them control the discourse by using their language.


 
Interesting perspective, and not one I'd fully appreciated, if I'm honest. I _thought _it was just a descriptor of sexual attraction to the post-pubescent child, but I note that its early usage appears to come from some academics with 'dubious' agendas.

That said, it does appear to address the specific sexual attraction in the age bracket in which legally defined paedophilia varies with state-based age of consent; I gather that Forrest did not commit an offence in France?

Nonetheless, i now feel far less comfortable with the term.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Clair De Lune said:


> I know, I didn't mean that literally.






Clair De Lune said:


> I have had to turn young men down...admittedly not that young, but say 18. I usually say something like "I am very flattered but I couldn't date someone so much younger, sorry."


Yeah, that sounds like the kind of thing I could see myself saying in the circumstances - "I'm flattered, but..." isn't too rejecting, but is distancing enough not to have the, err, yeah, well of "you're beautiful, but..."


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> in all honesty i think most people, teachers, plumbers, builders, librarians - hell, even bankers - would realise that shagging someone not only underage but half your age whether you met them in the course of your work or not was a bad idea especially if your wife had been saying 'you don't want to do that' for some time. no special training needed imvho. tangerinedream you seem to be particularly aggrieved because yer man has in some way made your job harder and not entirely because what he did was a) wrong and b) tawdry


 

Maybe not coppers because they'll fuck anyone over.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Having sex with a child at 15 as an adult makes you a paedophile: I know this as I have the pleasure of teaching on a child safeguarding module. I have also worked with both children/teenagers that are sexually exploited - as well as the paedophiles that do this.


Then your child safeguarding module is wrong. That doesn't surprise me: there's an awful lot of unmitigated bollocks masquerading as fact going around on a lot of this kind of internally-delivered training.

If we're going to call them paedophiles, we might as well keep going. Why stick at mere paraphilias? Why not refer to obscure items of hotel room furnishings to describe them?

The fucking _trouserpresses_.

It makes about as much sense.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Well considering her actions so far, she certainly seems to be behaving as if her love has been taken away from her, getting on the visitors list etc. Thats seperate from how anyone else views it, thats what this young woman appears to be experiencing.


 

So what? Whether she 'loves' him, whether she tempted him, whether she instigated it, it doesn't matter. It's got nothing to do with it. If someone burns your house down and kills your family, the fact you didn't have flame redartant furniture isn't a defence. You don't set fire to peoples houses, you don't fuck kids. Especially if you are teacher. End of. Debate done. Her feelings are irrelevant and shouldn't even be part of any media debate. I would accept that an exceptionally emotionally mature and intelligent 15yr old could hypothetically conduct a relationship with an adult without suffering much damage. I would also accept that the adult could be the person more damaged. However, I would counter by saying that this is absolutely the exception and the rule must protect the majority and the vast majority of 15 years old are not capable of conducting such a relationship. Therefore, we need to accept the rule and hold it as an absolute. You can stab someone and every now and again the damage will be superficial - but that doesn't mean any sane society would say 'stabbing is ok sometimes' - It doesn't matter what she feels, he abused his position and did something utterly unacceptable. 

(I've not really read the thread in full grit, so sorry if my reaction is out of context with how you intended it to be read - I'm not criticising you for reporting this, more that the information is within the public domain, presumably because the news agenda considers it relevant)


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> I think this is another point of information that supports what comes through in the anecdotal reporting about the guy. I'm not so sure that it was calculated malice as much as him being about the same maturity as a 15 year old/having some mental health issues.


 
What is wrong with you?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> And another thing, he listened to My Chemical Romance, ffs.


 

You're forgetting the real crime.

Those fucking awful songs of his that he posted in t'internet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Maybe not coppers because they'll fuck anyone over.


the precise reason i omitted them from my little list

although they're on another little list


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> But under slightly different circumstances, if she'd been a few months older and he had been a family friend, then legally he would not be considered an abuser. Maybe she'll always be attracted to older men. I think the thing that will damage her the most is all the media attention, the trial and the public vitriol.


That's one big mother of an "if", though. The *reason* teachers are very clearly enjoined against getting emotionally involved with their pupils is because the relationship is _not_ that of a friend, cannot be, and should not be, at least all the time that there is a teacher/pupil relationship going on. This is an absolute given.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

> anecdotal reporting about the guy. I'm not so sure that it was calculated malice as much as him being about the same maturity as a 15 year old/having some mental health issues.


 
Where was this then grits?


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What is wrong with you?


 
That I didnt put you back on ignore, so bye


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Those fucking awful songs of his that he posted in t'internet.


 

They're still on youtube, there's a group of people (presumably paedos) set up a vigil for him because he's the real victim here. Not under his real name but they don't take much finding.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Why are (some) people saying the girl's life has been destroyed though? It hasn't - She had a sexual relationship with a creepy older guy (which she'll probably regret in years to come), but he's now doing time (rightly, he abused his position as a teacher and it's only fair that he answers for it), but her life hasn't been ruined though - Except for being plastered all over the papers and the internet anyway. She shagged some guy who she probably shouldn't have - A cause for regret not fucking _life ruination_, let her move on FFS.


 
Depends on the depth of any trauma she's suffered, as to how much her "life has been destroyed" (horrible tabloid phrase. If your life is actually destroyed, you're dead, FFS!).


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Where was this then grits?


 

Could have been the guardian, it was the online version of a newspaper. I'll do a bit of googling see if I can dig it up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> They're still on youtube, there's a group of people (presumably paedos) set up a vigil for him because he's the real victim here. Not under his real name but they don't take much finding.


go on, post one, google can harvest the search from your computer and not mine


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> That I didnt put you back on ignore, so bye


 
You don't know any one who knows him to pass on anecdotal evidence and the didn't MH claim at the trial. Go away you little bullshitter.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> They're still on youtube, there's a group of people (presumably paedos) set up a vigil for him because he's the real victim here.


 
Having listened to those songs, the only vigil should be the morning before he gets given the short drop for crimes against music.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Could have been the guardian, it was the online version of a newspaper. I'll do a bit of googling see if I can dig it up.


 
You do that grits.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> That I didnt put you back on ignore, so bye


you should go for one of the following instead:

phildwyer
kizmet


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You don't know any one who knows him to pass on anecdotal evidence and the didn't MH claim at the trial. Go away you little bullshitter.


 

Anecdotal through the newspaper report


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Anecdotal through the newspaper report


 
You a) don't know what  anecdotal means and b) are short of a newspaper report. Let's have it.


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you should go for one of the following instead:
> 
> phildwyer
> kizmet


 

Nah phil has the potential to be amusing on rare occasion, butchers never fails to be dull.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Giles said:


> Oh, come on. If having an early relationship that you later regret, is going to "mindfuck" you, then you're probably doomed to be "mindfucked" anyway. People move on.
> 
> Giles..


 
It's not as simple as that, unfortunately.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> go on, post one, google can harvest the search from your computer and not mine


 

It'll make your eardrums crawl.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> It'll make your eardrums crawl.



i lasted 6 seconds


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Nah phil has the potential to be amusing on rare occasion, butchers never fails to be dull.


 
Found it yet? It can't be that hard. Just to help:




			
				grits said:
			
		

> anecdotal reporting about the guy. I'm not so sure that it was calculated malice as much as him being about the same maturity as a 15 year old/having some mental health issues.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2013)

When I was doing outward bound instructor had a 15 year old girl ask me out bear in mind I was 35 apprantly she'd been flirting at me and I was completly oblivious
 first thing I did was politely decline and then tell my supervisor.
  Made a good training point much to my embarresment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

likesfish said:


> When I was doing outward bound instructor had a 15 year old girl ask me out bear in mind I was 35 apprantly she'd been flirting at me and I was completly oblivious
> first thing I did was politely decline and then tell my supervisor.
> Made a good training point *much to my embarresment.*


embarrassment


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Counselling what for?
> 
> Child sex offenders have a complex rationale and story for their actions and it is a sexual orientation . You can't counsel someone out of their sexual orientation. You also have a limited impact with therapy that seeks behaviour change, due to the underlying schema of the individual offender. In this case he is not a victim and the punishment fits the crime. The only support he should get is effective surveillance and monitoring from probation ensuring he has no contact with children unsupervised in the future.


Speaking as a counsellor, I may be able to offer a perspective on this.

First of all - and this is why Forrest isn't a paedophile - getting the hots for teenage girls doesn't imply so much a problem with sexual orientation as one of judgement. How his judgement comes to be so flawed could well be something that could be explored in therapy: it may well be that he struggles with relationships with his peers - certainly, his marriage was not functioning well - and that is what made a younger girl more appealing; or he may have issues with self-worth which is what led to him selecting a sexual partner who was less likely to challenge him on that score. It could even be (this is all pure speculation, and not intended in any way as some kind of diagnosis) that he's angry at women for some reason, and decided to really fuck one up, good and early.

It could be any of those, a combination, or something completely different. Whatever, we have a choice - we can stick him in prison and just concentrate on punishing him for his past actions (and maybe even turn a blind eye when somehow or other he finds himself the recipient of a cup of sugary boiling water in the face, etc), or we can put a little effort into helping him see what might be behind this stuff, enable him to change, and maybe - just maybe - create a situation where, having done his time, and quite possibly come out even more bitter and twisted, he stands a chance of changing his behaviour. Which would be better for society, better for 15 year old girls, and better for him, nothing to do with pinko liberal lentil-weaving.

As it happens, I don't work in rehabilitative counselling, though it sounds an interesting field - I work with 15 year old girls (and boys, and some of quite a few other ages too). But the principles are the same.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> in all honesty i think most people, teachers, plumbers, builders, librarians - hell, even bankers - would realise that shagging someone not only underage but half your age whether you met them in the course of your work or not was a bad idea especially if your wife had been saying 'you don't want to do that' for some time. no special training needed imvho. tangerinedream you seem to be particularly aggrieved because you feel yer man has in some way made your job harder and not entirely because what he did was a) wrong and b) tawdry


 

No, not at all - I clearly state to do anything of the like is "vile" - I'm saying the argument that 'he was led on by a nasty kid' is one that just shouldn't even begin to wash with anyone who has worked as a teacher - whether they are vulnerable, have learning difficulties, social problems whatever... The culture is such that it's just not done, not joked about, not flirted with, not considered. Not everyone works in a culture with such values. In addition to being tawdry and wrong, it's also a betrayal of your colleagues trust. Does that make sense? The builder hasn't betrayed the explicitly stated trust of those he works alongside as well. Well, he has, but they probably just 'move on' and declare him 'a wrong un' and carry on building houses in the same way. I agree with what you say, but where you say "most" people would know its wrong - I would suggest EVERY SINGLE TEACHER should know for multiple reasons why its wrong and therefore I have a particular disdain for teachers who conduct such activities.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> No, not at all - I clearly state to do anything of the like is "vile" - I'm saying the argument that 'he was led on by a nasty kid' is one that just shouldn't even begin to wash with anyone who has worked as a teacher - whether they are vulnerable, have learning difficulties, social problems whatever... The culture is such that it's just not done, not joked about, not flirted with, not considered. Not everyone works in a culture with such values. In addition to being tawdry and wrong, it's also a betrayal of your colleagues trust. Does that make sense? The builder hasn't betrayed the explicitly stated trust of those he works alongside as well. Well, he has, but they probably just 'move on' and declare him 'a wrong un' and carry on building houses in the same way. *I agree with what you say*, but where you say "most" people would know its wrong - I would suggest EVERY SINGLE TEACHER should know for multiple reasons why its wrong and therefore I have a particular disdain for teachers who conduct such activities.


a simple 'yes' would have been quicker in the light of the bit i've emphasised


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Butchers I have you on ignore, but this is one example of what I was talking about, a few quotes from his sister at the bottom of the piece.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...over-schoolgirl-abduction-charge-8665609.html


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Interesting perspective, and not one I'd fully appreciated, if I'm honest. I _thought _it was just a descriptor of sexual attraction to the post-pubescent child, but I note that its early usage appears to come from some academics with 'dubious' agendas.
> 
> That said, it does appear to address the specific sexual attraction in the age bracket in which legally defined paedophilia varies with state-based age of consent; I gather that Forrest did not commit an offence in France?
> 
> Nonetheless, i now feel far less comfortable with the term.


I've always thought it had a slightly iffy feel about it, but ea's comment made me go and check...and yeah, not so good.

And rather pointless.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Butchers I have you on ignore, but this is one example of what I was talking about, a few quotes from his sister at the bottom of the piece.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...over-schoolgirl-abduction-charge-8665609.html


 
What is this supposed to be an example of? Beyond taking the defences claims as gospel. You naive little child.


----------



## 1%er (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Having sex with a child at 15 as an adult makes you a paedophile:


Wow that rather condemns a large area of the world and completely disregards cultural difference, the age a person is legally competent to consent to sex varies around the world.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

1%er said:


> Wow that rather condemns a large area of the world and completely disregards cultural difference, the age a person is legally competent to consent to sex varies around the world.


 
OMG DID NO ONE KNOW!!!!!!


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i lasted 6 seconds


I got as far as "Girl, you put yourself down..."

Derivative, cheesy, and - in the circumstances - creepy.


----------



## 1%er (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> OMG DID NO ONE KNOW!!!!!!


I don't think no one knows, but I'm not sure everyone knows.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> Can't say I agree, tangerinedream, none of us here have had any training and we (well them majority of us) seem to be able to understand that you don't do what Jeremy Forrest did.


 

I'm not saying the majority of people do think its right. I'm saying he has even less excuse because however emotionally weird he is, he's been told in black and white repeatedly not to do something he has done. Therefore, there is even less need to debate this case than any other child sex case. See also - fiddly priests, murdery doctors, corrupt coppers etc.


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

1%er said:


> Wow that rather condemns a large area of the world and completely disregards cultural difference, the age a person is legally competent to consent to sex varies around the world.


 

The situation would have been legal in spain up to about 3 years ago iirc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What is this supposed to be an example of? Beyond taking the defences claims as gospel. You naive little child.


i think the phrase you're after is 'you stupid boy'


----------



## Cornetto (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Then your child safeguarding module is wrong. That doesn't surprise me: there's an awful lot of unmitigated bollocks masquerading as fact going around on a lot of this kind of internally-delivered training.
> 
> If we're going to call them paedophiles, we might as well keep going. Why stick at mere paraphilias? Why not refer to obscure items of hotel room furnishings to describe them?
> 
> ...



Firstly I dealt with this and corrected that with the use of the term Ephebophilia in its place. However I am a social worker and we do not recognise the distinction between paedophilia and Ephebophilia (a lot of other professions also contest this). We consider it all to be child sexual exploitation and the offender to be a Paedophile. The victim is and will always be a child.   

I don't know what your argument is, you are either building support for the discourse of grooming; in the shades of grey area, love is complex debate; or you think 15 year olds are consenting sexual adults.


----------



## agricola (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> The situation would have been legal in spain up to about 3 years ago iirc.


 
It was legal in France as well, thats why he wasnt extradited for USI.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> The victim is and will always be a child.


surely like other young people they'll grow up?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> He'll be in his cell most of the time and in a special wing of the prison the rest of the time. They tend to keep 'them' separate from the rest of the inmate population to stop prison style justice. He'll have plenty time to write creepy songs.


 
Nope. He won't be "kept separate".
He has to *request* placement in the VPU (Vulnerable Prisoners' Unit), otherwise he'll just be placed in general population.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you should go for one of the following instead:
> 
> phildwyer
> kizmet


 
poor phil, that's quite a low, lumping in him with the sexpest.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

1%er said:


> I don't think no one knows, but I'm not sure everyone knows.


 
We're actually talking about a whole network of embedded social relations and how we place teenage sexual maturity within that - not about _when it's legal to have sex._ You're not daft, grits is - which is why he thinks this is great. Why he thinks that it is all good fun.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> poor phil, that's quite a low, lumping in him with the sexpest.


it doesn't do kizmet any favours either, being put in with dwyer


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

1%er said:


> Wow that rather condemns a large area of the world and completely disregards cultural difference, the age a person is legally competent to consent to sex varies around the world.


 
you mean, it's ok for me to fuck 6 year olds because in some cultures it's allowed?  why didn't anyone say so.

do you fuck 6 year olds?


----------



## 1%er (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> We're actually talking about a whole network of embedded social relations and how we place teenage sexual maturity within that - not about _when it's legal to have sex._ You're not daft, grits is - which is why he thinks this is great. All good fun.


I replied to the post when I got to it a few pages back. I'm catching up


----------



## likesfish (Jun 21, 2013)

i'm going to hell for this one.

But why would a teacher want to sleep with one of his pupils whos want to take their work home.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> you mean, it's ok for me to fuck 6 year olds because in some cultures it's allowed? why didn't anyone say so


people did, in that class you dossed off when you were 13


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

likesfish said:


> i'm going to hell for this one.
> 
> But why would a teacher want to sleep with one of his pupils who want to take their work home.


sleeping was the last thing on his mind


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> it doesn't do kizmet any favours either, being put in with dwyer


 
kismet'd try and fuck him and then pretend he didn't (((phil)))


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

UrbaneFox said:


> in response to Goldenecitrone
> 
> Fat chance.


 
Inaccurate.
If he requests it, then he can access some fairly good counselling under the Sex Offender Treatment Programme. He has to request it, though.


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> I would suggest EVERY SINGLE TEACHER should know for multiple reasons why its wrong....



They should, and probably do; including those who access the teaching profession (and other professions), precisely because it affords them access children and young people, from a position of power, and perceived 'respectibility'.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> people did, in that class you dossed off when you were 13


 
shit man, if i hadn't been down the rec smoking bifters and trying to be cool i'd have known


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Lets all have a candle lit vigil for sexual predators.


 
I'd have thought you'd prefer burning someone at the stake.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'd have thought you'd prefer burning someone at the stake.


breaking on the wheel more of a crowd-pleaser


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Belushi said:


> Yeah her getting groomed for three years, abused and abducted by her maths teacher is just like getting dumped by your first girlfriend


 
It is if you're an emo, to be fair.


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> I'm not saying the majority of people do think its right. I'm saying he has even less excuse because however emotionally weird he is, he's been told in black and white repeatedly not to do something he has done. Therefore, there is even less need to debate this case than any other child sex case. See also - fiddly priests, murdery doctors, corrupt coppers etc.


 

I get what you mean now


----------



## 1%er (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> you mean, it's ok for me to fuck 6 year olds because in some cultures it's allowed? why didn't anyone say so.
> 
> do you fuck 6 year olds?


I don't know of any country or culture that considers a 6 year old legally competent to consent to sex, btw the point went that way -------------->








Your head is down here somewhere


----------



## Firky (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> kismet'd try and fuck him and then pretend he didn't (((phil)))


 

I wonder if kizmet has sent anyone who posted on the nekkid thread unsolicted photos of his erect cock lately?

/probably out of order saying that but wtf


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Firstly I dealt with this and corrected that with the use of the term Ephebophilia in its place. However I am a social worker and we do not recognise the distinction between paedophilia and Ephebophilia (a lot of other professions also contest this). We consider it all to be child sexual exploitation and the offender to be a Paedophile. The victim is and will always be a child.


There is a difference. Perhaps from a purely victim-oriented perspective, the distinction between paedophilia and "mere" sexual activity with a minor is irrelevant, but don't you think it's a little presumptuous to assume that, just because your profession doesn't recognise a difference, the difference is therefore irrelevant?

As a therapeutic professional, though, the distinction is significant. Someone who has paedophilia is motivated very differently, and is likely to target very different groups, than someone who targets young but post-pubescent children. I would argue that they present very different risks, and that the management of those risks needs to be very different, when compared to paedophilia.

I try very hard, as a professional, to work in a collegiate and co-operative fashion with the social workers I come into contact, but I have to say that many of the ones I encounter display, as you appear to be doing, a rather "we know what's best for everyone" attitude which gets up the nose of a lot of the professionals who have to work with them. It might do you, and your profession, a few favours if you didn't assume that your game was the only game in town.

ETA: 





Cornetto said:


> I don't know what your argument is, you are either building support for the discourse of grooming; in the shades of grey area, love is complex debate; or you think 15 year olds are consenting sexual adults.


The fuck? Perhaps you'd like to explain how on earth you got to this point - I can't see how anything I have written could be construed as "building support for the discourse of grooming" (though extra points for the extravagant academicspeak - usually the kind of thing I've come to suspect indicates a mature-student BSc with an inferiority complex), and I can't see where on earth you've got the idea from my challenging your elision of paedophilia and sexual abuse of a minor that I think 15 year olds are consenting sexual adults.

Give me ONE example of how I have suggested this. Just ONE, Cornetto. (swidt?)


I rather think you're trying to construct the argument you'd like me to be making, so you can be all right and clever and stuff.

I suspect most of Urban will see through this.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> a simple 'yes' would have been quicker in the light of the bit i've emphasised


 

I'll rephrase - I agree with what you say about most people knowing such a thing is wrong, but in reference to the specific point you use the word 'most' in reference to general society who do not have explicit positions of control over young people, I would say that EVERY SINGLE TEACHER should know it's wrong, tawdry, vile and a betrayal of their duty for multiple reasons, one of which (and a minor one in comparison to damage wrought upon individuals who suffer abuse) is the damage it causes to the colleagues who work with you and there ability to carry out their duties. It's analogous to a hypothetical builder who does dodgy work on a house, let's say he wires it up badly because he can't be arsed to do it properly - not only do people die in the resultant house fire (which is clearly the main crime and tragedy) but he's also fucked over those who work for the same building company who now have a terrible reputation." - There is at least one school I can think of which is known as 'the paedo school' - which is absolutely vile for the 99.5% of staff who havn't done anything wrong ever and never ever will - this is obviously far less important in the grand scheme of things, but a slightly fresher perspective on a thread which at 70+ pages has probably got it's share of 'paedos are cunts full stop' or 'actually, maybe it's not his fault' statements.  

I feel like I have resubmitted my essay now. Do I get a C yet?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Yes... thanks for that. He groomed, she fell in love/lust/whatever.


 
I don't think you're quite grasping the asymmetry in the psychodynamics between a teacher and a pupil, and the purpose of grooming, which is to *produce* emotional bonding and trust.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Counselling what for?
> 
> Child sex offenders have a complex rationale and story for their actions and it is a sexual orientation . You can't counsel someone out of their sexual orientation. You also have a limited impact with therapy that seeks behaviour change, due to the underlying schema of the individual offender. In this case he is not a victim and the punishment fits the crime. The only support he should get is effective surveillance and monitoring from probation ensuring he has no contact with children unsupervised in the future.


 
All the sense of a housebrick.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> ephebophile is a made-up term used by nonces to try and scientifically excuse their predation on young women. it's not recognised by the vast majority of psychologists or psychiatrists. don't let them control the discourse by using their language.


 
There was me thinking it was originally an academic categorisation that nonces have attempted to co-opt.


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 21, 2013)

Cornetto said:


> Firstly I dealt with this and corrected that with the use of the term Ephebophilia in its place. However I am a social worker and we do not recognise the distinction between paedophilia and Ephebophilia (a lot of other professions also contest this). We consider it all to be child sexual exploitation and the offender to be a Paedophile. The victim is and will always be a child.
> 
> I don't know what your argument is, you are either building support for the discourse of grooming; in the shades of grey area, love is complex debate; or you think 15 year olds are consenting sexual adults.



I assume when you use the term "we", you're not speaking for a whole profession?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

1%er said:


> I don't know of any country or culture that considers a 6 year old legally competent to consent to sex, btw the point went that way -------------->


 
i'll take your refusal to engage with the point as a 'yes', oh defender of nonces.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> There was me thinking it was originally an academic categorisation that nonces have attempted to co-opt.


 
it's not recognised by most is it?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Speaking as a counsellor, I may be able to offer a perspective on this.
> 
> First of all - and this is why Forrest isn't a paedophile - getting the hots for teenage girls doesn't imply so much a problem with sexual orientation as one of judgement. How his judgement comes to be so flawed could well be something that could be explored in therapy: it may well be that he struggles with relationships with his peers - certainly, his marriage was not functioning well - and that is what made a younger girl more appealing; or he may have issues with self-worth which is what led to him selecting a sexual partner who was less likely to challenge him on that score. It could even be (this is all pure speculation, and not intended in any way as some kind of diagnosis) that he's angry at women for some reason, and decided to really fuck one up, good and early.
> 
> ...


 
Well said.


----------



## 1%er (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> i'll take your refusal to engage with the point as a 'yes', oh defender of nonces.


LOL you've hurt my feelings now


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

Isn't 1%er from Brazil? The legal age of consent is 14 there, apparently.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> I'll rephrase - I agree with what you say about most people knowing such a thing is wrong, but in reference to the specific point you use the word 'most' in reference to general society who do not have explicit positions of control over young people, I would say that EVERY SINGLE TEACHER should know it's wrong, tawdry, vile and a betrayal of their duty for multiple reasons, one of which (and a minor one in comparison to damage wrought upon individuals who suffer abuse) is the damage it causes to the colleagues who work with you and there ability to carry out their duties. It's analogous to a hypothetical builder who does dodgy work on a house, let's say he wires it up badly because he can't be arsed to do it properly - not only do people die in the resultant house fire (which is clearly the main crime and tragedy) but he's also fucked over those who work for the same building company who now have a terrible reputation." - There is at least one school I can think of which is known as 'the paedo school' - which is absolutely vile for the 99.5% of staff who havn't done anything wrong ever and never ever will - this is obviously far less important in the grand scheme of things, but a slightly fresher perspective on a thread which at 70+ pages has probably got it's share of 'paedos are cunts full stop' or 'actually, maybe it's not his fault' statements.
> 
> I feel like I have resubmitted my essay now. Do I get a C yet?


No. Poor understanding of apostrophes and sundry other simple errors: d


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> No. Poor understanding of apostrophes and sundry other simple errors: d


 

I'm off to write 'Mr Pickman's bums goats' on the wall behind the bike sheds then....


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Isn't 1%er from Brazil? The legal age of consent is 14 there, apparently.


 
I'm sure i saw you say something once. Maybe it was just the summer breeze.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> There is a difference. Perhaps from a purely victim-oriented perspective, the distinction between paedophilia and "mere" sexual activity with a minor is irrelevant, but don't you think it's a little presumptuous to assume that, just because your profession doesn't recognise a difference, the difference is therefore irrelevant?
> 
> As a therapeutic professional, though, the distinction is significant. Someone who has paedophilia is motivated very differently, and is likely to target very different groups, than someone who targets young but post-pubescent children. I would argue that they present very different risks, and that the management of those risks needs to be very different, when compared to paedophilia.
> 
> I try very hard, as a professional, to work in a collegiate and co-operative fashion with the social workers I come into contact, but I have to say that many of the ones I encounter display, as you appear to be doing, a rather "we know what's best for everyone" attitude which gets up the nose of a lot of the professionals who have to work with them. It might do you, and your profession, a few favours if you didn't assume that your game was the only game in town.


 
TBF, it's apparently an occupational vice for social workers. They've got postgrad qualifications, you know! 



> ETA:
> 
> 
> The fuck? Perhaps you'd like to explain how on earth you got to this point - I can't see how anything I have written could be construed as "building support for the discourse of grooming" (though extra points for the extravagantly academicspeak - usually the kind of thing I've come to suspect indicates a mature-student BSc with an inferiority complex)...


 
Ouch!!!
BTW, I'm surprised Cornetto didn't say "...*a* discourse of grooming", because the last time I was looking into this "earlier this year", there were *many* different discourses of grooming, each attempting to place a particular perspective as primary to grooming behaviour.



> and I can't see where on earth you've got the idea from my challenging your elision of paedophilia and sexual abuse of a minor that I think 15 year olds are consenting sexual adults.
> 
> Give me ONE example of how I have suggested this. Just ONE, Cornetto. (SWITDT?)


 
I wish you hadn't gone there. 




> I rather think you're trying to construct the argument you'd like me to be making, so you can be all right and clever and stuff.
> 
> I suspect most of Urban will see through this.


 
Like a clingfilm jockstrap.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> I'm off to write 'Mr Pickman's bums goats' on the wall behind the bike sheds then....


 

Actually, hang on, this is 2013 - I'm off to complain to my personal tutor that Mr Pickman's hates me and his lessons are boring and he's not even a very good teacher and I'm going to get my mum to come in and tell Mr Editor the head teacher that he bullies me.

Red hot satire. 

Meh.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> it's not recognised by most is it?


 
It's fallen out of use because of co-optation, which isn't quite the same thing.
Persoanlly I don't think it's an apt category, purely because it serves to abruptly delineate one type or stage of abusive behaviour from another, but I also think using "paedophile" as a general category doesn't work anymore, not least because of the way it's become a value-laden categorisation thanks to the media.
Why not call a spade a spade and call them sex offenders against minors?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Isn't 1%er from Brazil? The legal age of consent is 14 there, apparently.


 
if there's grass on the pitch, let's play!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I'm sure i saw you say something once. Maybe it was just the summer breeze. Because, on reflection, it definitely wasn't you.


 

Love is like a butterfly
As soft and gentle as a sigh
The multicoloured moods of love
are like its satin wings.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

1%er said:


> LOL you've hurt my feelings now


 
and one day a device will be invented whereby i can use the internet to hurt your face.  *prays*


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## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> I think this is another point of information that supports what comes through in the anecdotal reporting about the guy. I'm not so sure that it was calculated malice as much as him being about the same maturity as a 15 year old/having some mental health issues.


 

I wonder if you'd still be so understanding if it was your teenage daughter he was nobbing.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> if there's grass on the pitch, let's play!


 

You'd need to take that up with the Brazilians.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> I'm off to write 'Mr Pickman's bums goats' on the wall behind the bike sheds then....


You do that. But watch out for the maths teacher who'll be teaching french to the first year gcse students there.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's fallen out of use because of co-optation, which isn't quite the same thing.


 
that's not what wikipedia says!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Love is like a butterfly
> As soft and gentle as a sigh
> The multicoloured moods of love
> are like its satin wings.


 
Trapped. In there.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Love is like a butterfly
> As soft and gentle as a sigh
> The multicoloured moods of love
> are like its satin wings.


 
You what, you fackin' nonce?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> You'd need to take that up with the Brazilians.


 
i wasn't having a pop at you, i was having a pop at brazil!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> that's not what wikipedia says!


 
That'll teach me to base my posts on 30 years of following the academic debate, rather than reading wikipedia!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Trapped. In there.


 

In here, you mean, with you. God help me.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> That'll teach me to base my posts on 30 years of following the academic debate, rather than reading wikipedia!


 
internets 1 : book learning 0


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> and one day a device will be invented whereby i can use the internet to hurt your face. *prays*


 
Reminds me of an episode of "Fringe".


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> In here, you mean, with you. God help me.


 
Two sentences! Well done. Next, what do you want to say?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> I think this is another point of information that supports what comes through in the anecdotal reporting about the guy. I'm not so sure that it was calculated malice as much as him being about the same maturity as a 15 year old/having some mental health issues.


I'm sure it wasn't calculated malice. But that's not really the point. She was 13 at the time it started. She is completely excused for not knowing that only bad could come of it. He isn't. He was an adult and her teacher. He can't be excused for not knowing that only bad could come of it. He cannot not have known. But he did it anyway. Not necessarily malice, but at the very least selfish behaviour. He may not have thought he was being selfish - he may have thought he was being the opposite of selfish - but he was.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I wonder if you'd still be so understanding if it was your teenage daughter he was nobbing.


 

Exactly. As a parent I can say to my kid, 'watch out for dodgy strangers who want to befriend you' and feel that's a reasonable thing to do- but it seems a fucking terrible thing to have to say 'watch out for your teachers' - We should be able to say 'trust your teachers, be open to what they have to tell you and show you' - that's the fucking basis of the education system if it to have any function at all which is why, you especially cannot defend a teacher who has done this. End of.


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I wonder if you'd still be so understanding if it was your teenage daughter he was nobbing.


 

Dont get me wrong, I'm not looking to excuse him, rather understand his motivations/state of mind. His actions suggest to me he was in a very bad place and just all sense of correct judgement, rather than he is a complete evil cunt. All we can do is speculate.


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm sure it wasn't calculated malice. But that's not really the point. She was 13 at the time it started. She is completely excused for not knowing that only bad could come of it. He isn't. He was an adult and her teacher. He can't be excused for not knowing that only bad could come of it. He cannot not have known. But he did it anyway. Not necessarily malice, but at the very least selfish behaviour. He may not have thought he was being selfish - he may have thought he was being the opposite of selfish - but he was.


 
 Absolutely, I agree with all of that.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Dont get me wrong, I'm not looking to excuse him, rather understand his motivations/state of mind. His actions suggest to me he was in a very bad place and just all sense of correct judgement, rather than he is a complete evil cunt. All we can do is speculate.


 
He was in a bad place? Where are you reading this? You have now made up three lies in support of him.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Absolutely, I agree with all of that.


 
No you don't. It's the opposite of your sure was only a little love thing and wouldn't it be ok over the border type posts. You are how this happens.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

abstract1 said:


> I assume when you use the term "we", you're not speaking for a whole profession?


Given my (professional) experiences with social workers, I fear that he may well be speaking for a good 50% of them...


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's fallen out of use because of co-optation, which isn't quite the same thing.
> Persoanlly I don't think it's an apt category, purely because it serves to abruptly delineate one type or stage of abusive behaviour from another, but I also think using "paedophile" as a general category doesn't work anymore, not least because of the way it's become a value-laden categorisation thanks to the media.
> Why not call a spade a spade and call them sex offenders against minors?



In my experience, the term paedophile gets used rarely - the main focus is on Risk of Serious Harm, which is assessed on much more specific and targetted criteria, which considers a broad range of factors, and rightly so, especially when working with MAPPA offenders. As you say, it tells us nothing of use, beyond the obvious, and serves fuck all purpose when seeking to prevent further offending.


----------



## wayward bob (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> I'm not so sure that it was calculated malice as much as him being about the same maturity as a 15 year old/*having some mental health issues*.


 
not this _again_


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2013)

wayward bob said:


> not this _again_


 

Eh? Its rare I have time to be on urban these days so sorry if that's been done to death already.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

tangerinedream said:


> Exactly. As a parent I can say to my kid, 'watch out for dodgy strangers who want to befriend you' and feel that's a reasonable thing to do- but it seems a fucking terrible thing to have to say 'watch out for your teachers' - We should be able to say 'trust your teachers, be open to what they have to tell you and show you' - that's the fucking basis of the education system if it to have any function at all which is why, you especially cannot defend a teacher who has done this. End of.


 
Exactly. A teacher's job is to give kids boundaries, not fucking cross them.




littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm sure it wasn't calculated malice. But that's not really the point. She was 13 at the time it started. She is completely excused for not knowing that only bad could come of it. He isn't. He was an adult and her teacher. He can't be excused for not knowing that only bad could come of it. He cannot not have known. But he did it anyway. Not necessarily malice, but at the very least selfish behaviour. He may not have thought he was being selfish - he may have thought he was being the opposite of selfish - but he was.


 
I think the most sickening thing is that his defence is portraying his selfishness as selflessness. He followed her to France to stop her committing suicide; not acknowledging that her distressed state was caused in part if not wholly by his relationship with her and that counselling a pupil doesn't involve fucking them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I think the most sickening thing is that his defence is portraying his selfishness as selflessness. He followed her to France to stop her committing suicide; not acknowledging that her distressed state was caused in part if not wholly by his relationship with her and that counselling a pupil doesn't involve fucking them.


Yes, that strikes me, too. He appears still to be convinced of this - that his selfishness was the opposite. Maybe it was a factor in the length of the sentence - you've had a year to think about it and you still don't get what was wrong with what you did, well clearly you need a few more years to think about it...


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

grit said:


> Eh? Its rare I have time to be on urban these days so sorry if that's been done to death already.


 
What an odd defence of ignorance. _I'm sorry if all my lazy blame laying, she led him on points have been made before, but i'm not here often._


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 21, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes, that strikes me, too. He appears still to be convinced of this - that his selfishness was the opposite. Maybe it was a factor in the length of the sentence - you've had a year to think about it and you still don't get what was wrong with what you did, well clearly you need a few more years to think about it...


 

And allowing the victim a few more years. A friend of mine told me that her and a mate used to get rides in the car of the 'cool' teacher at her school. I think inappropriate behaviour took place (perhaps not full sex, my memory of what she said is hazy) and at the time she said it was exciting and made her feel all grown up, but as an adult rang alarm bells and made her skin crawl.


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Given my (professional) experiences with social workers, I fear that he may well be speaking for a good 50% of them...



Hmmmmm, we may have to agree to disagree on that figure. Perhaps I've been lucky to work in teams where language is more considered/nuanced, and the impact of unhelpful narratives is held in mind, when working with those affected by abuse.

I suspect some of the difficulties in language arises from SW's being statutory gatekeepers - there is a clear pressure to come up with definitive positions, based on the balance of probability, often in the absence of substantiated evidence, and/or subsequent prosecutions (an issue regularly debated in every team I've worked).

That doesn't mean I think it's okay, I don't, but I do get why it's tempting to use language which reinforces a particular position. It's what's demanded, much of the time.......


----------



## 8ball (Jun 21, 2013)

I've become aware of this case, and mulled it over a bit and stuff.

I do wonder whether the term 'abduction' is strictly the most appropriate, and I'm suspicious of some of the apparent legal positivism that is bandied about, but I think on balance this chap in this case is the kind of person of person that Sid Vicious might quite justifiably call 'a fucking rotter'.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 21, 2013)

abstract1 said:


> Hmmmmm, we may have to agree to disagree on that figure. Perhaps I've been lucky to work in teams where language is more considered/nuanced, and the impact of unhelpful narratives is held in mind, when working with those affected by abuse.
> 
> I suspect some of the difficulties in language arises from SW's being statutory gatekeepers - there is a clear pressure to come up with definitive positions, based on the balance of probability, often in the absence of substantiated evidence, and/or subsequent prosecutions (an issue regularly debated in every team I've worked).
> 
> That doesn't mean I think it's okay, I don't, but I do get why it's tempting to use language which reinforces a particular position. It's what's demanded, much of the time.......


I suspect, given my far-flung location, and the reputation of the LA, that we probably don't get the _crème de la crème_ down here, social worker-wise, so my estimate is possibly unduly pessimistic.

Suffice it to say that I have seen more than an unrepresentative minority of people like Cornetto, who are happy to baldly state "facts" without questioning them, and then play some kind of rearguard action when the unexpected happens and someone challenges their view.

I agree with what you're saying about definitive positions, though - safeguarding is a large part of my work (we're only here thanks to things like the Clywch Inquiry), and there is a constant tension between the injunction to "report all concerns", the reality on the ground, and the - quite natural - desire of anyone who makes a child protection disclosure to see Something Done About It. I don't envy SWs their position, but I don't believe that the difficulty of their position is any kind of justification - as I think you are saying - for starting to talk like God


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2013)

Firky said:


> I wonder if kizmet has sent anyone who posted on the nekkid thread unsolicted photos of his erect cock lately?
> 
> /probably out of order saying that but wtf


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 21, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I suspect, given my far-flung location, and the reputation of the LA, that we probably don't get the _crème de la crème_ down here, social worker-wise, so my estimate is possibly unduly pessimistic.
> 
> Suffice it to say that I have seen more than an unrepresentative minority of people like Cornetto, who are happy to baldly state "facts" without questioning them, and then play some kind of rearguard action when the unexpected happens and someone challenges their view.
> 
> I agree with what you're saying about definitive positions, though - safeguarding is a large part of my work (we're only here thanks to things like the Clywch Inquiry), and there is a constant tension between the injunction to "report all concerns", the reality on the ground, and the - quite natural - desire of anyone who makes a child protection disclosure to see Something Done About It. I don't envy SWs their position, but I don't believe that the difficulty of their position is any kind of justification - as I think you are saying - for starting to talk like God



Social workers have, quite rightly, been criticised for making assessments, drawing subsequent conclusions, and then being unwilling to shift their thinking/position in the face of change - supported by evidence. But we're not the only profession to do this, and like any profession, there's the capacity to become defensive when challenged about it.

Defensive practice serves no one well.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> usually the kind of thing I've come to suspect indicates a mature-student BSc with an inferiority complex)


 
What does this mean?



existentialist said:


> we probably don't get the _crème de la crème_ down here, social worker-wise


 
Careful, you'll be describing them as dregs next.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 22, 2013)

grit said:


> Dont get me wrong, I'm not looking to excuse him, rather understand his motivations/state of mind. His actions suggest to me he was in a very bad place and just all sense of correct judgement, rather than he is a complete evil cunt. All we can do is speculate.


 

That's what the defence argued; that he was emotionally very low.

If you feel very low emotionally, go to your GP, don't groom a child.

And I think it's a cop out defence anyway, that totally ignores how dangerous grooming really is.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 22, 2013)

abstract1 said:


> Social workers have, quite rightly, been criticised for making assessments, drawing subsequent conclusions, and then being unwilling to shift their thinking/position in the face of change - supported by evidence. But we're not the only profession to do this, and like any profession, there's the capacity to become defensive when challenged about it.
> 
> Defensive practice serves no one well.


 

Not surprised it's a defensive profession though, I mean we're slated all day from morning till night.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2013)

where the hell did revol68 go


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> What does this mean?


Tell you what. You tell me what you think it means, and I'll tell you if I think you've got it wrong, eh?



Red Cat said:


> Careful, you'll be describing them as dregs next.


Unlikely.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

purenarcotic said:


> Not surprised it's a defensive profession though, I mean we're slated all day from morning till night.


Yes, and often unfairly.

However, that defensiveness becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: SWs are probably the professionals I have the most difficulty in dealing with in my work. In my case, it is a particularly demoralised and historically low-performing department, and there appears to be organisational beef between them and the education sector (under whose aegis I work), but that really is no excuse for the kind of obstructiveness we often experience in our dealings with them. And it's not my imagination - we've just had a Ministerial Action Group in from the Welsh Government for the last year kicking arse and trying to sort things out, with significant management changes throughout education and social services as a result. I am looking forward to improvements.

And, to keep this vaguely on topic, it is only through collaboration and co-operation, not parking tanks on each other's lawns, that the various services involved in safeguarding and child protection are going to be able to stop stuff like this Forrest business happening before it goes too far. Safeguarding needs to be about prevention, not just response, and I think the lack of goodwill and co-operation between professional groups keeps us on the back foot too much of the time.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

purenarcotic said:


> That's what the defence argued; that he was emotionally very low.
> 
> If you feel very low emotionally, go to your GP, don't groom a child.
> 
> And I think it's a cop out defence anyway, that totally ignores how dangerous grooming really is.


Yeah. In the worst case, the minute he realised he was starting to get a bit too close to a 13 year old - and let's face it, this doesn't happen without us realising something - he should have been getting himself signed off from work, or seeking guidance or supervision. That he didn't do any of those things is itself tantamount to wilfulness.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 22, 2013)

Nobody wants to share their information in case it affects their own funding stream is often what it comes down to, increasingly more so.

Lack of clinical supervision is another issue. You're dealing with horrendous shit on a daily basis and apparently you're supposed to be able to go home and just deal with it all.  Think Community Care have done a survey and about a third of respondents aren't getting any regular supervision AT ALL, which is fucking appalling.  Is it any wonder people stop caring or struggle to cope?

Birmingham is attempting to move more to prevention vs cure but it's going to be heavily reliant on the charitable / third sector.  The idea of prevention vs cure is extremely practicable and sensible, but nobody has of course thought about what we'll do when the third sector orgs have reached their capacity, or have their funding cut, or go bust or whatever.  

And of course the real issue really is that most of what social services do is stick tiny plasters over the gaping wounds of social inequality and until that changes it'll be a never ending uphill battle.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Tell you what. You tell me what you think it means, and I'll tell you if I think you've got it wrong, eh?




You said it. What do you mean by it?

Not just social workers who become defensive then, eh?


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> You said it. What do you mean by it?
> 
> Not just social workers who become defensive then, eh?


Well...sometimes when people ask "what do you mean by that?", you get the impression that they're not so much asking for clarification as looking for somewhere to grind an axe.

I thought I'd check out which it was.

Axe grinding is the next door down. Have a nice day.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

purenarcotic said:


> Lack of clinical supervision is another issue. You're dealing with horrendous shit on a daily basis and apparently you're supposed to be able to go home and just deal with it all. Think Community Care have done a survey and about a third of respondents aren't getting any regular supervision AT ALL, which is fucking appalling. Is it any wonder people stop caring or struggle to cope?


This, I must admit, is the bit that boggles my mind. In my field, clinical supervision is non-negotiable. Simple as. You should not be practicing if you are not getting supervision.

And it amazes me that social workers seem to be expected to regard clinical supervision as a nice little extra, the icing on the cake, a favour dished out if you're a good social worker and not causing trouble, or if there's any money left in the pot (which there never is). To be honest, I think that the range of professions where professional supervision should be mandatory is vast - social workers, police, teachers (yes, teachers - might have helped this situation), nurses, and so on. It's an additional cost of doing business, but I think it's one well worth paying, both in terms of the well-being of the professionals themselves, but also in regard to the quality of the service they are providing.

Not going to happen, though, is it?


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Well...sometimes when people ask "what do you mean by that?", you get the impression that they're not so much asking for clarification as looking for somewhere to grind an axe.
> 
> I thought I'd check out which it was.
> 
> Axe grinding is the next door down. Have a nice day.


 
I don't do axe grinds on urban. I'm not known for it.

What do you mean by your statement? What is a mature student bsc with an inferiority complex?


----------



## phildwyer (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I suspect, given my far-flung location


 
"Far-flung" in relation to what?


----------



## dessiato (Jun 22, 2013)

I've only read the first 66 pages, so could someone summarise the rest please? Does it go on with chat about skinny jeans and name calling of the contributors here, and of the people in the case?


----------



## xenon (Jun 22, 2013)

dessiato said:


> I've only read the first 66 pages, so could someone summarise the rest please? Does it go on with chat about skinny jeans and name calling of the contributors here, and of the people in the case?



1. Pedo scum burn him.
2. Inadiquet manipulative creator of shit creepy tunes. Send him down.
3. Fix his head with councilling.
4. Girl's life's ruined, - burn the pedo scum.
5. Sure it's bad but don't write her life off as ruinned. 
6. It's just a thing she'll look back on with embarrassment.
7. . Teenagers might flurt / fancy you. Don't take advantage.
8. Councillors, councilling tutors, shouldn't shag their clients / students.

2, 3, 5, 7, and 8 I go with.


----------



## xenon (Jun 22, 2013)

What? Make your own fucking list then...


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## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> I don't do axe grinds on urban. I'm not known for it.
> 
> What do you mean by your statement? What is a mature student bsc with an inferiority complex?


Dunno about cat, you're like a dog with a bone.

There's a certain sort of person who seems to feel the need to go off at 40 and get a degree. Then they seem to feel the need to spout sufficient great gobbets of academic-sounding guff to let everybody know that they're not just any 40 year old, but One With A Degree. Not everyone does it - I'm a 40something who went off at 40 and got a degree, and I don't think I do it.

Anyway, it was a remark-in-passing (not to say parentheses). Perhaps you'd like to clarify why you seem so exercised by it that you can't seem to let the matter drop: are you, perchance, a 40 year old with a mature student degree and an inferiority complex?


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

phildwyer said:


> "Far-flung" in relation to what?


Well, Beta Centauri, obviously.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 22, 2013)

It's being reported today that she wasn't the first person he'd pulled this on. Seems he had form with a few unsuccessful attempts to groom other girls at other schools.


----------



## agricola (Jun 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It's being reported today that she wasn't the first person he'd pulled this on. Seems he had form with a few unsuccessful attempts to groom other girls at other schools.


 
burn him

pedo scum

etc


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 22, 2013)

agricola said:


> burn him
> 
> pedo scum
> 
> etc


 
Is this the official pig position?


----------



## agricola (Jun 22, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Is this the official pig position?


 
No, I just picked something from the list.


----------



## andysays (Jun 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It's being reported today that she wasn't the first person he'd pulled this on. Seems he had form with a few unsuccessful attempts to groom other girls at other schools.


 
Not sure that this adds much to the picture/debate/whatever. He's no more or less guilty in the current case because of what he may or may not have done in the past.

I suppose the only issue might be if he was genuinely known or suspected to be dodgy, does the school which then employed him have some additional responsibility? but I don't claim to have an answer to that question.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

andysays said:


> Not sure that this adds much to the picture/debate/whatever. He's no more or less guilty in the current case because of what he may or may not have done in the past.
> 
> I suppose the only issue might be if he was genuinely known or suspected to be dodgy, does the school which then employed him have some additional responsibility? but I don't claim to have an answer to that question.


No more or less guilty, but it puts a slightly different perspective on the "eeaaaww, it's True Love™, she's the One For Me™" schtick.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> No more or less guilty, but it puts a slightly different perspective on the "eeaaaww, it's True Love™, she's the One For Me™" schtick.



This.


----------



## Sue (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> No more or less guilty, but it puts a slightly different perspective on the "eeaaaww, it's True Love™, she's the One For Me™" schtick.


Poor kid.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

Sue said:


> Poor kid.


Yes. If this story has any kind of support beyond rumour, she is going to feel betrayed. She is, it has to be remembered, a member of an age group where one's boyfriend simply _receiving_ a text message from another girl is frequently regarded as "cheating". Of course, there's every chance she'll simply refuse to countenance the possibility - I imagine Forrest got her nicely into her Juliet role prior to the trial.

There also seems to be a story floating around that he may have influenced the evidence, as the evidence she gave in court differs from the evidence she gave in police interviews - that'd be more to support the manipulative abuser narrative there, then, because I cannot believe he wouldn't know (or wouldn't have been warned) about interfering with witnesses.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Dunno about cat, you're like a dog with a bone.
> 
> There's a certain sort of person who seems to feel the need to go off at 40 and get a degree. Then they seem to feel the need to spout sufficient great gobbets of academic-sounding guff to let everybody know that they're not just any 40 year old, but One With A Degree. Not everyone does it - I'm a 40something who went off at 40 and got a degree, and I don't think I do it.
> 
> Anyway, it was a remark-in-passing (not to say parentheses). Perhaps you'd like to clarify why you seem so exercised by it that you can't seem to let the matter drop: are you, perchance, a 40 year old with a mature student degree and an inferiority complex?


 
I've never met such a person. When I did an MA in the evening at Birkbeck College the people I remember who'd done their degree later in life were usually working class men and women, who'd been treated as unworthy of an education for not having passed their 11+, or who didn't consider themselves as clever enough and did jobs such as nursing in addition to raising their children. Or people who found themselves out of a job after years of working in a trade. I have nothing but admiration for them.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 22, 2013)

And I didn't let the matter drop because you didn't answer my question and you avoided doing so by first answering aggressively and then by projecting the problem into me and my axe-grinding rather than thinking about the attitudes you express.


----------



## andysays (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> No more or less guilty, but it puts a slightly different perspective on the "eeaaaww, it's True Love™, she's the One For Me™" schtick.


 
This is true, but I think that most of us here have already dismissed that schtick for the manipulative cobblers it is.



existentialist said:


> Yes. If this story has any kind of support beyond rumour, she is going to feel betrayed.


 
Again, true. If she has to go through a period of feeling betrayed to get over the idea that this is all a modern day Romeo & Juliet story, that perhaps that's actually for the best.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 22, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> And I didn't let the matter drop because you didn't answer my question and you avoided doing so by first answering aggressively and then by projecting the problem into me and my axe-grinding rather than thinking about the attitudes you express.


You must be reading a different Urban75 to me, then.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Jun 22, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Inaccurate.
> If he requests it, then he can access some fairly good counselling under the Sex Offender Treatment Programme. He has to request it, though.


 
I didn't know that. Thank you.


----------



## Firky (Jun 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It's being reported today that she wasn't the first person he'd pulled this on. Seems he had form with a few unsuccessful attempts to groom other girls at other schools.


 

Or as Grit would put it... he was just unlucky in love.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2013)

UrbaneFox said:


> I didn't know that. Thank you.


 
No problem. People tend to believe there's nothing on offer, when the truth is the only thing that prevents an inmate getting counselling is the inmate themselves.


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Dunno about cat, you're like a dog with a bone.
> 
> There's a certain sort of person who seems to feel the need to go off at 40 and get a degree. Then they seem to feel the need to spout sufficient great gobbets of academic-sounding guff to let everybody know that they're not just any 40 year old, but One With A Degree. Not everyone does it - I'm a 40something who went off at 40 and got a degree, and I don't think I do it.
> 
> Anyway, it was a remark-in-passing (not to say parentheses). Perhaps you'd like to clarify why you seem so exercised by it that you can't seem to let the matter drop: are you, perchance, a 40 year old with a mature student degree and an inferiority complex?


Edited. Ruder than I meant. But still unhappy.


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 22, 2013)

To clarify, it's okay for you to do it, but not for anyone else


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 22, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Dunno about cat, you're like a dog with a bone.
> 
> There's a certain sort of person who seems to feel the need to go off at 40 and get a degree. Then they seem to feel the need to spout sufficient great gobbets of academic-sounding guff to let everybody know that they're not just any 40 year old, but One With A Degree. Not everyone does it - I'm a 40something who went off at 40 and got a degree, and I don't think I do it.
> 
> Anyway, it was a remark-in-passing (not to say parentheses). Perhaps you'd like to clarify why you seem so exercised by it that you can't seem to let the matter drop: are you, perchance, a 40 year old with a mature student degree and an inferiority complex?



What a patronising, sneery load of old bollocks.

I missed the original comment you made - turns out it was in a post of yours I liked, but clearly didn't read carefully enough - challenge what people say, but don't beat a whole swathe of people with some holier than thou stick of your own whittling eh?

And for the record - I went to Uni for the first time in my 30's and still don't have a degree


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 23, 2013)

Mail on Sunday reports he wants to Marry her when he gets out of prison:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-plans-wed-pupil-snatched-leaves-prison.html


----------



## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

abstract1 said:


> What a patronising, sneery load of old bollocks.
> 
> I missed the original comment you made - turns out it was in a post of yours I liked, but clearly didn't read carefully enough - challenge what people say, but don't beat a whole swathe of people with some holier than thou stick of your own whittling eh?
> 
> And for the record - I went to Uni for the first time in my 30's and still don't have a degree


The original comment was a throwaway remark I'd made in passing. 

My biggest mistake was to bother to let Red Cat make an issue of it: I should have gone with my instincts and just ignored him. 

Lesson learned.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 23, 2013)

Red Cat is a woman actually.

And I don't understand why you made that comment either, seems a bit sneery to me n all.


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

existentialist said:


> My biggest mistake was to bother to let Red Cat make an issue of it: I should have gone with my instincts and just ignored him.


 
Yes you should have and it is a her 

I know what you mean about older people who do degrees for hobbies - they're up their with the pub quiz bore but they're _*not all*_ like that. If you've ever been in a lecture theatre with them, they're usually the ones putting their hand up all teh time asking stupid questions and getting on the lecturers' tits 

JUST READ THE FUCKING LECTURE NOTES OR HAVE A WORD WITH THE LECTURER AT THE END!


----------



## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> Yes you should have and it is a her


Her, then. I suppose at least she can't accuse me of sexism.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> Yes you should have and it is a her
> 
> I know what you mean about older people who do degrees for hobbies - they're up their with the pub quiz bore but they're _*not all*_ like that. If you've ever been in a lecture theatre with them, they're usually the ones putting their hand up all teh time asking stupid questions and getting on the lecturers' tits


 
Probably because they're a bit older and have the confidence to question the lecturers more. I went to uni in my mid-20s and I was struck by how passive the kids straight from school were. Either barely interested or scribbling down everything the lecturer said without really listening.

If we're going to do massive, idiotic stereotypes.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

I know they're not all like that, because I are one. But I'm glad I'm not the only one to have noticed the tendency.


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

They all drive Hond Accords in second gear too!


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 23, 2013)

fuck off ffs.


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

With a bunch of heather stuck through the front grill and a box of tissues on the parcel shelf.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 23, 2013)

not you firks.


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

Must be nice to do a degree as a hobby though, none of the pressures of the young whipper snappers. I've often though about doing something at the OU - English Literature or something wanky like Art History but I can't afford it and even if I could I am not sure I'd see it through.

English Lit' would be great actually.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jun 23, 2013)

Are the bookies taking bets on whether the couple will get married in 5 and a half years time? I have a feeling that she will have matured a bit and met up with other men of her own age.  He, being an ex-convict will not be able to find worthwhile work and will be of no use as a husband.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> English Lit' would be great actually.


 
Reading reading for your degree?


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Reading reading for your degree?


 
That's basically it, yeah. But look at the fees, man...

http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/qualification/q66.htm

*Fee 2013/14:* At today's prices, the fee for the whole degree is £15,372.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

Disgusting how they have destroyed the OU.


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

The OU...providing social mobility for those who can afford it.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> That's basically it, yeah. But look at the fees, man...
> 
> http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/qualification/q66.htm
> 
> *Fee 2013/14:* At today's prices, the fee for the whole degree is £15,372.


One of the really good differences between this country and places like the US was the way it was possible to get a serious education without having to spend serious money. That's gone forever now, I fear. 

As for Forrest, even half of 5½ years is a long time for a 15 year old - I doubt very much that she'll be waiting at the prison gates with 2 rings and a bouquet.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 23, 2013)

existentialist said:


> The original comment was a throwaway remark I'd made in passing.
> 
> My biggest mistake was to bother to let Red Cat make an issue of it: I should have gone with my instincts and just ignored him.
> 
> Lesson learned.


 


I quoted 2 comments.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 23, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Her, then. I suppose at least she can't accuse me of sexism.


 

I haven't _accused_ you of anything. All your own words, all your own words. 

Not a dog, much cleverer than a dog.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 23, 2013)

existentialist said:


> One of the really good differences between this country and places like the US was the way it was possible to get a serious education without having to spend serious money. That's gone forever now, I fear.
> 
> As for Forrest, even half of 5½ years is a long time for a 15 year old - I doubt very much that she'll be waiting at the prison gates with 2 rings and a bouquet.


 
It's possible. My father was married to my mother when he met a, then, 15 year old. They did nothing till she was 16 when my father left my mother. When she was 18 they married. They've been together forty years this year, and have a fantastic happy marriage. There is a 22 year age gap.

Mind you he wasn't a teacher.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 23, 2013)

andysays said:


> Again, true. If she has to go through a period of feeling betrayed to get over the idea that this is all a modern day Romeo & Juliet story, that perhaps that's actually for the best.


 
It's possible that this will be emotionally catastrophic for her. She's already very vulnerable and cut off from friends and family.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> <snip>I've often though about doing something at the OU - English Literature or something wanky like Art History but I can't afford it and even if I could I am not sure I'd see it through.
> 
> English Lit' would be great actually.


 
If you're on IS, IB or ESA, some of the fees are waived.  In addition to which, it's possible to get Disabled Students Allowance - which makes it just about affordable if you treat the degree course as your luxury item for the year.

Not sure that you'd last?  Try one of the taster courses, which only last about 6 weeks.  The credits for these can be counted towards a degree if you decide to take it further.

BTW I should probably warn you that English Lit is far less about the reading than about the analysis of what you've read.  You might enjoy it, or you might not.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 23, 2013)

Greebo said:


> BTW I should probably warn you that English Lit is far less about the reading than about the analysis of what you've read. You might enjoy it, or you might not.


 
It's a good grounding in teasing out meaning that the author may not have intended.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 23, 2013)

If half the stuff thats now coming out is true its going from cretinous manchild.
 To cretinous manchild who wanted a schoolgirl for sexy times he  needs to be set on fire.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 23, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> It's a good grounding in teasing out meaning that the author may not have intended.


 

Can you tease out the meaning in this?



likesfish said:


> If half the stuff thats now coming out is true its going from cretinous manchild.
> To cretinous manchild who wanted a schoolgirl for sexy times there needs to be set on fire.


----------



## grit (Jun 23, 2013)

dessiato said:


> It's possible. My father was married to my mother when he met a, then, 15 year old. They did nothing till she was 16 when my father left my mother. When she was 18 they married. They've been together forty years this year, and have a fantastic happy marriage. There is a 22 year age gap.
> 
> *Mind you he wasn't a teacher*.


 

I wonder how different the responses would be to this situation if you removed the teacher/student angle from it


----------



## Belushi (Jun 23, 2013)

I'd still think it was grooming if he was say a family friend who'd been flirting with her since she was 13, started sleeping with her just after her 15th birthday, and then absconded with her to France.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> That's basically it, yeah. But look at the fees, man...
> 
> http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/qualification/q66.htm
> 
> *Fee 2013/14:* At today's prices, the fee for the whole degree is £15,372.


 

Would you be eligible for their financial support?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 23, 2013)

Dessiato's dad is a wrong 'un. Sorry, but there it is. If you're married and nearly 40, you have no business suddenly falling in love with 15 year olds, and the subsequent forty years doesn't make it all retrospectively okay.


----------



## grit (Jun 23, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I'd still think it was grooming if he was say a family friend who'd been flirting with her since she was 13, started sleeping with her just after her 15th birthday, and then absconded with her to France.


 

Would you consider dessiato's father to have groomed his wife?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Dessiato's dad is a wrong 'un. Sorry, but there it is. If you're married and nearly 40, you have no business suddenly falling in love with 15 year olds, and *the subsequent forty years doesn't make it all retrospectively okay*.


I don't quite get this, personally. I rather think it does. Now you could say that the wife was hurt in this, but there's no good way to go back on marriage vows - it's a shitty thing to do that will hurt people, but we don't know what state the marriage was in, and I'm guessing you're not judging him for leaving his wife. So if you're not getting hot under the collar on behalf of the wife, on whose behalf are you judging him?


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 23, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Can you tease out the meaning in this?


 

No, sorry.


----------



## Shirl (Jun 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Dessiato's dad is a wrong 'un. Sorry, but there it is. If you're married and nearly 40, you have no business suddenly falling in love with 15 year olds, and the subsequent forty years doesn't make it all retrospectively okay.


I think a 40 years and a still going strong happy marriage does make it ok.  I'm sure the husband and wife in this situation feel it was all worth while.


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

Greebo said:


> If you're on IS, IB or ESA, some of the fees are waived. In addition to which, it's possible to get Disabled Students Allowance - which makes it just about affordable if you treat the degree course as your luxury item for the year.
> 
> Not sure that you'd last? Try one of the taster courses, which only last about 6 weeks. The credits for these can be counted towards a degree if you decide to take it further.
> 
> BTW I should probably warn you that English Lit is far less about the reading than about the analysis of what you've read. You might enjoy it, or you might not.


 

I may take a look into it then, I have taken advantage of my ESA to get my teeth sorted! It is the analysis part I like.

(There's a biologist on TV and he looks very familiar  )


----------



## andysays (Jun 23, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> It's possible that this will be emotionally catastrophic for her. She's already very vulnerable and cut off from friends and family.


 
The whole thing will clearly have had a serious emotional effect - it may or may not have been catastrophic.

What I am attempting to suggest (perhaps I haven't done it entirely clearly so far) is that it's now better for her to begin to get a realistic idea of what has been going on, which includes recognising that this relationship was always going to be unhealthy, at an absolute bare minimum, and is actually likely to have been manipulative and abusive (the reason I separate it out that way is that she may not be able to get to the end straight away, she may first need simply to recognise the unhealthy aspect).

At the moment she still appears to be believing the narrative which says it would all have been wonderful if only family etc hadn't found out. It will clearly cause her some short(ish) term pain to overcome that way of seeing it, but to truly deal with it, she's going to have to go through that process. I hope she gets the help she needs to do that away from further public speculation.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

dessiato said:


> It's possible. My father was married to my mother when he met a, then, 15 year old. They did nothing till she was 16 when my father left my mother. When she was 18 they married. They've been together forty years this year, and have a fantastic happy marriage. There is a 22 year age gap.
> 
> Mind you he wasn't a teacher.


The age gap is one thing - it rather tilts the odds against a successful relationship, but doesn't rule it out altogether. The professional thing is another - and, again, there are examples of teacher/pupil relationships that do go on to be successful, but I suspect the odds against those are even longer. And the potential harm done in the cases where it doesn't become a successful relationship means a heavy price is paid for those rare positive outcomes.

But it is interesting that your father clearly had a sufficient sense of propriety that he was prepared to wait until the time was appropriate. In theory, if Forrest and this girl really had found their true loves, that would have been an option, too: still far from ideal, but at the very least it wouldn't have _looked_ quite as iffy as it does, and quite possibly wouldn't have _been_ as iffy, either.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 23, 2013)

andysays said:


> The whole thing will clearly have had a serious emotional effect - it may or may not have been catastrophic.
> 
> What I am attempting to suggest (perhaps I haven't done it entirely clearly so far) is that it's now better for her to begin to get a realistic idea of what has been going on, which includes recognising that this relationship was always going to be unhealthy, at an absolute bare minimum, and is actually likely to have been manipulative and abusive (the reason I separate it out that way is that she may not be able to get to the end straight away, she may first need simply to recognise the unhealthy aspect).
> 
> At the moment she still appears to be believing the narrative which says it would all have been wonderful if only family etc hadn't found out. It will clearly cause her some short(ish) term pain to overcome that way of seeing it, but to truly deal with it, she's going to have to go through that process. I hope she gets the help she needs to do that away from further public speculation.


 
I'm not disagreeing with you that coming to terms with reality is better; I was saying that for a girl this vulnerable, this wrapped up in a fantasy of love, at a time in her life when her identity is forming, recognising that it is abuse is going to be more than painful. There will be nothing simple about this process and she will need a lot of help.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you that coming to terms with reality is better; I was saying that for a girl this vulnerable, this wrapped up in a fantasy of love, at a time in her life when her identity is forming, recognising that it is abuse is going to be more than painful. There will be nothing simple about this process and she will need a lot of help.


This.

But she's going to need to be prepared to access that help, and my guess is that, all the time she's "wrapped up in a fantasy of love" (nice way of putting it ), that isn't going to happen. That's the sad bit, because all the time that's going on, she's going further and further down a road she's only going to have to - painfully - backtrack along when the scales fall from her eyes.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> I may take a look into it then, I have taken advantage of my ESA to get my teeth sorted! It is the analysis part I like.<snip>


Front page of the OU site - www.open.ac.uk 
From there, go to "studying" and there should be a link about the fees and various bits of funding, even if you have to look around quite a bit to find it.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 23, 2013)

purenarcotic said:


> Would you be eligible for their financial support?


 
Not for all of it, if you've already got a degree, but the DSA makes it more within reach.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Reading reading for your degree?


 

crewative writing is the awesome one. Three years studying biography, poetry and so on? gfet  in.

mind you now the fees are so rapine I'd not bother.


----------



## suki456 (Jun 23, 2013)

Forrest is described as 'emotionally immature and deeply narcissistic' an apt description for sure but one that tragically describes more than a few people.  I'm just relieved my own teenage daughters are too secure to fall prey to arseholes like this.


----------



## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Front page of the OU site - www.open.ac.uk
> From there, go to "studying" and there should be a link about the fees and various bits of funding, even if you have to look around quite a bit to find it.


 

Thanks, I'll take a proper look when I am back on a computer (hate websites on a phone)... although I want to return to work and a normal life I am not going to knock my pipe out IYSWIM 





Greebo said:


> Not for all of it, if you've already got a degree, but the DSA makes it more within reach.


 
Ah...


----------



## Thora (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't quite get this, personally. I rather think it does. Now you could say that the wife was hurt in this, but there's no good way to go back on marriage vows - it's a shitty thing to do that will hurt people, but we don't know what state the marriage was in, and I'm guessing you're not judging him for leaving his wife. So if you're not getting hot under the collar on behalf of the wife, on whose behalf are you judging him?


I can't comment on dessiato's dad because I don't know if they are genuinely happy or not.  

I've read threads about this case on a few different forums and lots of anecdotes have come up about teachers/older men shagging schoolgirls and going on toe marry them/have long term relationships/have children together as if that proves that it is all ok.  Abusive relationships can last a lifetime.  People in abusive relationships often have children.  Vulnerable girls who become estranged from their families and get married at 18 to men twice their age are less able that most women to leave those relationships.

So while I'm not saying that *all* relationships between teenage girls and middle aged men are automatically abusive, the fact that a relationship lasts a long time, produces children or appears happy from the outside does not prove anything.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

Thora said:


> So while I'm not saying that *all* relationships between teenage girls and middle aged men are automatically abusive, the fact that a relationship lasts a long time, produces children or appears happy from the outside does not prove anything.


 
I cannot agree. It certainly proves something. I think there's a real danger of denying agency to the woman here. Dessiato's dad and his wife are a good case in point. They got together when she was 15, married when she was 18, and are still together. What gives anyone else the right to wade in and say anything about that? What more do they have to do to prove that it is not an abusive relationship?


----------



## Thora (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I cannot agree. It certainly proves something. I think there's a real danger of denying agency to the woman here. Dessiato's dad and his wife are a good case in point. They got together when she was 15, married when she was 18, and are still together. What gives anyone else the right to wade in and say anything about that? What more do they have to do to prove that it is not an abusive relationship?


They don't have to prove that it is not an abusive relationship.  I have no idea if it is abusive or not.  The fact that they are still together proves nothing either way.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

Thora said:


> They don't have to prove that it is not an abusive relationship. I have no idea if it is abusive or not. The fact that they are still together proves nothing either way.


Dessiato thinks it isn't abusive. From the outside, they appear happy, according to him. They've been together for 40 years and say that they're happy. That's about as good a proof as anyone can get of someone else's relationship.

I still can't agree at all with you about the fact they've stayed together. Staying together for 40 years may not prove anything conclusively, but it is evidence for the idea that they found something that works for them.


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## spanglechick (Jun 23, 2013)

the point for me is that just because a relationship becomes healthy later on, does not mean it was not abuse at the start.  It's not a matter for me of whether the ends justify the means - it's about saying that it is never ok for an adult - teacher or not - of that age to allow themself to develop a romantic relationship with a child.  I'd say it's also almost certainly going to be true at 18, btw - i think relationships must be of equals, and i think teenagers just haven't got enough experience of the world or even their own sense of self to  enter into a relationship with someone that much older and not be at a disadvantage.

I'm 39, and if one of my peers was romancing a teenager I would be disgusted.


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## spanglechick (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Dessiato thinks it isn't abusive. From the outside, they appear happy, according to him. They've been together for 40 years and say that they're happy. That's about as good a proof as anyone can get of someone else's relationship.


whch is what nigella and saatchi's friends have been queueing up to say about their marriage, incidentally.


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## Thora (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Dessiato thinks it isn't abusive. From the outside, they appear happy, according to him. They've been together for 40 years and say that they're happy. That's about as good a proof as anyone can get of someone else's relationship.


I don't think someone's opinion from outside a relationship is very relevant tbh.  No one knows if it is abusive or not except the people involved, which is why how a relationship appears on the surface isn't very good proof of anything.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> whch is what nigella and saatchi's friends have been queueing up to say about their marriage, incidentally.


Who?


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## purenarcotic (Jun 23, 2013)

It doesn't prove anything, because people exist in abusive relationships for decades.  Relationships where they're beaten regularly after 30 years, or are still being raped by their partner when they are in their 70's when they first married in their 20's.  

Thora hasn't actually suggested that people need to prove their relationships aren't abusive, she is pointing out that being together for a long time or having children does not automatically equal a non abusive relationship. 

That is hardly a controversial view point to hold.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 23, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> I'm 39, and if one of my peers was romancing a teenager I would be disgusted.


And if they're still together in 10 years' time and say they're happy, would you still be disgusted? Disgusted on whose behalf, exactly?


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

Far too easy to look from the outside and call a relationship abusive. There can also be a disparity in certain kinds of power, i.e financial, linguistic, attractiveness, maturity, age(?) without the relationship necessarily being abusive. My main test is the eyes - on that count this one is up there with Saville. It is also apparently not the first time the man has been up to this kind of thing.


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## Balbi (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And if they're still together in 10 years' time and say they're happy, would you still be disgusted? Disgusted on whose behalf, exactly?


 

I'm disgusted by it as well, because I do the same job as him and what he's done is fucking disgusting. If they're still together in ten years, I will still be disgusted at how the whole thing started. Huge breach of trust from the start.


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## Thora (Jun 23, 2013)

This reminds me a bit of a thread that I read on Mumsnet a little while ago.  It was basically a woman who had been with her partner for 10 or so years and wanted to leave but was finding it difficult.  He was controlling and maybe a bit emotionally abusive but there had never been violence.  They had got together when she was 16ish and he was 30ish and at the time she had been totally in love but in retrospect she wondered what he had really seen in such a young girl.  Her difficulty in leaving was that she had fallen out with her friends/family over him, she had also given up on further/higher education and was financially dependent, and to all the friends they had made as a couple they seemed very happy and she wasn't being supported in leaving him.

My point isn't that this *proves* all relationships between older men and young girls are abusive either, just that relationships aren't always what they seem, and where there is a power imbalance it can be harder to leave.


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## spanglechick (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And if they're still together in 10 years' time and say they're happy, would you still be disgusted? Disgusted on whose behalf, exactly?


if they were still together ten years later then they may be happy at that time, but it wouldn't make what the older person did to start with any less wrong. To get a bit shakespearean here, If i murder someone to take over their business, it doesn't matter if i run that business really well and create loads of jobs: I'm still a fucking murderer.


edit - and disgusted on my own behalf.


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## Balbi (Jun 23, 2013)

The drama teacher uses Shakespeare to illustrate her point 

What's wrong with Beckett


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

Would she feel comfortable with him getting a teaching job with the same age range pupils in ten years time after they marry? If not, why not?


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## spanglechick (Jun 23, 2013)

Balbi said:


> The drama teacher uses Shakespeare to illustrate her point
> 
> What's wrong with Beckett


because i wan't making an anaolgy where existential wittering would have been helpful.


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## Balbi (Jun 23, 2013)

kenny g said:


> Would she feel comfortable with him getting a teaching job with the same age range pupils in ten years time after they marry? If not, why not?


 

If that man ever gets to work near children again, I am off. It was bad enough Gove let the child porn pic teacher back on the job, but this is next level wrong.


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## Balbi (Jun 23, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> because i wan't making an anaolgy where existential wittering would have been helpful.


 

Welcome to the internet, existential wittering is what it's about. Samuel would have loved it.


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## likesfish (Jun 23, 2013)

Sorry grooming a 13 year old nonce burn him end of no excuse no mitigation.
Your a teacher 
Your 28 if your that immature you think your emotionally close to a 13 year old.
 I found a teacher sending personal txts to my daughter the school would have one chance to sought it out.
 Fail and its paulsgrove mode


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

Balbi said:


> If that man ever gets to work near children again, I am off. It was bad enough Gove let the child porn pic teacher back on the job, but this is next level wrong.


 

He could head to foreign climes to share his guitar skills. When his sister says he is emotionally immature it does make me wonder. If someone hasn't matured by the time they are thirty there isn't a lot of hope for them being able to relate to their own age range.

The sister does seem an enabler.
ETA:- Would be interesting to see if she could be locked up along with the rest of his family.


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## Hocus Eye. (Jun 23, 2013)

> "Foreign climbs"


 
I didn't know that he was interested in mountaineering.  Did you perhaps mean "climes"?

e2a Well edited that man.


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I didn't know that he was interested in mountaineering.


 

Learn something new every day


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 23, 2013)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think there's a real danger of denying agency to the woman here. ?




I wouldn't ever speak of a person's "agency" myself, but just to accept for a second that the term is meaningful, then its denial is exactly what looking after a 15 year old's best interests is often all about, whether one is the child's parent, or whether one is simply a member of society. We treat children differently from grown-ups.


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## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> I wouldn't ever speak of a person's "agency" myself, but just to accept for a second that the term is meaningful, then its denial is exactly what looking after a 15 year old's best interests is often all about, whether one is the child's parent, or whether one is simply a member of society. We treat children differently from grown-ups.


Agency in connection with young people is always going to be tricky.

For a start, we have to draw legal lines in the sand to define specific ages at which our legalities come into force (or cease to), regardless of the competence of each individual.

Secondly, you'll find it very hard to find a 15 year old who _doesn't _think that they know everything there is to know about whatever it is they're concerned about at that point!


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## Firky (Jun 23, 2013)

So let me get this right, I can start an imbalanced relationship, mould and groom the victim with emotional and or physical abuse and it'll be alright if they learn to love me?

Pffft...


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## Balbi (Jun 23, 2013)

Is it ok for me to have sex with this four year old now she's 27?


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2013)

if you go steady with a minor and then she becomes not a minor because of entropy it still doesn't make it right.


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## toggle (Jun 23, 2013)

Thora said:


> I don't think someone's opinion from outside a relationship is very relevant tbh. No one knows if it is abusive or not except the people involved, which is why how a relationship appears on the surface isn't very good proof of anything.


 
Sometimes it can be more clear to someone outside the relationship that it is abusive than it is to the victim of the abuse.


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## Shirl (Jun 23, 2013)

Thora said:


> So while I'm not saying that *all* relationships between teenage girls and middle aged men are automatically abusive, the fact that a relationship lasts a long time, produces children or appears happy from the outside does not prove anything.


But you can say that about any relationship if you choose to.


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## pogofish (Jun 23, 2013)

Balbi said:


> If that man ever gets to work near children again, I am off. It was bad enough Gove let the child porn pic teacher back on the job, but this is next level wrong.


 
A former teacher up here who had a relationship with a pupil and struck-off was back working with community groups, incl children in the next-door authority just over a year later and has since been elected to his local parent/teacher council (Scottish equivalent of school governors), despite considerable concern about his activities before she was sixteen - Its never coming to court was of course a big factor.

http://news.stv.tv/north/305565-tea...-years-after-he-quit-his-job-over-the-affair/

And one of his predecessors in the same post (dead some time ago) was also subject to censure for getting a pupil pregnant - He also got away with it by marrying her!


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 23, 2013)

I believe he has told been told he will never be allowed to work unsupervised with children again.


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## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

purenarcotic said:


> I believe he has told been told he will never be allowed to work unsupervised with children again.


Yup. I think that's the usual form, these days - it seems rare to hear of a situation where one of these bans isn't for life.


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## Greebo (Jun 23, 2013)

Balbi said:


> <snip>What's wrong with Beckett


How long have you got?


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2013)

Greebo said:


> How long have you got?


----------



## Greebo (Jun 23, 2013)

Balbi said:


>


 
Both, Balbi.  He was part of the drama syllabus.


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## Balbi (Jun 23, 2013)

Oh god, that'll kill your love of anything stone dead.


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## Greebo (Jun 23, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Oh god, that'll kill your love of anything stone dead.


 
I dunno - it made kitchen sink drama feel like a bundle of warm and fuzzies by contrast.


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## Thora (Jun 23, 2013)

Shirl said:


> But you can say that about any relationship if you choose to.


Of course.


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 23, 2013)

kenny g said:


> Far too easy to look from the outside and call a relationship abusive. There can also be a disparity in certain kinds of power, i.e financial, linguistic, attractiveness, maturity, age(?) without the relationship necessarily being abusive.


 

It isn't differences in power that make a relationship abusive, it's about the way that power is exercised as a way of getting certain needs met. So if one person is a teenager and one is middle-aged I'd be curious about what those needs are because I suspect those needs won't be the same even if they appear to be so on the surface.


----------



## dylanredefined (Jun 23, 2013)

Firky said:


> So let me get this right, I can start an imbalanced relationship, mould and groom the victim with emotional and or physical abuse and it'll be alright if they learn to love me?
> 
> Pffft...


 
        Well if you can get away with it. The horrible thing is if you succeed short of someone deprogramming your victim. The victim will be unhappy if the relationship ends. Which is all kinds of fucked up ,but, unless someone intervenes early I can't see what you would do.


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## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> It isn't differences in power that make a relationship abusive, it's about the way that power is exercised as a way of getting certain needs met. So if one person is a teenager and one is middle-aged I'd be curious about what those needs are because I suspect those needs won't be the same even if they appear to be so on the surface.


True, it isn't differences in power that _make_ a relationship abusive...but they're a bloody good way of facilitating an abusive relationship!


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

In a way we are all being groomed within the various shitty relationships at work, with the state, with the bank, the landlord.


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## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

kenny g said:


> In a way we are all being groomed within the various shitty relationships at work, with the state, with the bank, the landlord.


Yeah, you only look at how the public at large are being very effectively groomed via the media.


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

I keep meaning to put a bit of time into reading up on the academic theories of grooming and putting everyday abusive relationships into the same contexts.


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## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

kenny g said:


> I keep meaning to put a bit of time into reading up on the academic theories of grooming and putting everyday abusive relationships into the same contexts.


I think you'd have to cast the net slightly wider than "grooming". After all, the same principles apply when you're looking at military training, psychological phenomena like Stockholm Syndrome, the Milgram experiment, and so on - all of it is about conditioning people to achieve an acceptance of situations they might otherwise reject out of hand.

And as far as sexual grooming is concerned - I wonder if, in the way that it so often preys on the guilt and shame that the perpetrator has succeeded in in stilling into his victim, whether it is not, in a way, built onto the societal grooming that says we should behave in particular ways? That might be taking things controversially far, but one of the issues I encounter in my work is the way in which young people (in particular) are rendered so much more vulnerable to abusers, and bullying, by the somewhat cack-handed way in which we rather clumsily emphasise conformity and obedience to children as idealised characteristics. No wonder, then, that when a charismatic abuser rocks up and starts confusing them with flattery and attention, and implicit demands that they conform and obey by not, eg, telling inconvenient truths, they get away with it so frequently.


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I think you'd have to cast the net slightly wider than "grooming". After all, the same principles apply when you're looking at military training, psychological phenomena like Stockholm Syndrome, the Milgram experiment, and so on - all of it is about conditioning people to achieve an acceptance of situations they might otherwise reject out of hand.
> 
> And as far as sexual grooming is concerned - I wonder if, in the way that it so often preys on the guilt and shame that the perpetrator has succeeded in in stilling into his victim, whether it is not, in a way, built onto the societal grooming that says we should behave in particular ways? That might be taking things controversially far, but one of the issues I encounter in my work is the way in which young people (in particular) are rendered so much more vulnerable to abusers, and bullying, by the somewhat cack-handed way in which we rather clumsily emphasise conformity and obedience to children as idealised characteristics. No wonder, then, that when a charismatic abuser rocks up and starts confusing them with flattery and attention, and implicit demands that they conform and obey by not, eg, telling inconvenient truths, they get away with it so frequently.


 

Interesting, what do you mean by the inconvenient truths part?


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## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

Bit of a case in point...

A young person, female, aged 14. Long history of petty criminality, absconding from home and school, known to the police, frequently involved in trouble. Several referrals have been made to social services, who have made a home visit where the parents said it "wasn't convenient" and the matter was dropped there - to my knowledge, no subsequent social services visit has been made. This is a child who runs away and hitches lifts by the roadside - not unattractive, and sexually precocious. The attitude of a lot of the services involved is that she's, basically, a "wrong 'un" - because she won't co-operate, nobody wants to know: we had a suicide attempt where she was admitted to the children's ward of the local hospital (the nearest juvenile acute psychiatric facility is 75 miles away), and essentially allowed to abscond because the staff found her "disruptive".

This is a child who is absolutely ripe for grooming, and is at severe risk, if not of self-harm, a more-successful-than-intended suicidal gesture, or accident, then of being abducted, procured, or coerced into all kinds of unpleasantness. If that happens - and I pray that it is "if" - there will undoubtedly be serious case reviews, investigations, and the mother of all frantic arse-covering exercises as social services, the police, and quite possibly the NHS desperately try to somehow skew the history to show that they had exercised due diligence. Annoying Cassandras like me, and the small number of other professionals who are sounding alarms now, will be dismissed, first as irritating doomsayers, subsequently as dangerous whistle blower types, if we should be so foolish.

I suspect that this kind of problem goes on around the country. People like Forrest are certainly to blame for what they do, but we, as a society, with our ostrich-like attitudes and unwillingness to do anything until it's absolutely too late to be proactive, are the ones who happily feed people like him the very vulnerable, lonely, desperate and impressionable kids they need to boost up their own egos and satisfy their urges.

We're complicit in this. I could be less complicit, but it'd probably cost me my job. Tough call.


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## existentialist (Jun 23, 2013)

kenny g said:


> Interesting, what do you mean by the inconvenient truths part?


In the case of Forrest and this girl - she will have known that she could not afford to let on to too many (any) people what was going on. If her social conditioning had not done the job, it is pretty certain that Forrest would have been giving it the "if people find out about us, we are through - they'll take me away from you, and you don't want that" schtick...

Those ones


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## kenny g (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks for that. Need to get off for an early start but the idea that encouraging general compliance assists abusers is an interesting one.


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## existentialist (Jun 24, 2013)

One thing that has struck me very forcibly, doing the work that I do, is the consistency of the script that abusers (primarily sexual abusers) use to coerce victims and ensure compliance. Time and again, the very same phrases and ideas come up - "nobody will believe you", "remember that I care about you" (the physical abuse equivalent: "I only hit you because I care about you"), "if you tell anyone, they'll take me away", "you encouraged it - it's your fault, really", and so on.

I'd be very surprised if some of the same language didn't characterise the relationship between Forrest and this girl.


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## Manter (Jun 24, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/affair-pupil-teacher-abusive-jeremy-forrest

this woman thinks the thing most damaging about the Forrest/15 year old thing is that everyone is being so mean to them 
"I for one refuse to let the commentators and experts define my relationship with my teacher. I was not a child who was damaged by an abusive relationship with a paedophile. I was an intelligent young adult with the power of reason who knew what I was doing and I don't regret a thing."


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## butchersapron (Jun 24, 2013)

Manter said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/affair-pupil-teacher-abusive-jeremy-forrest
> 
> this woman thinks the thing most damaging about the Forrest/15 year old thing is that everyone is being so mean to them
> "I for one refuse to let the commentators and experts define my relationship with my teacher. I was not a child who was damaged by an abusive relationship with a paedophile. I was an intelligent young adult with the power of reason who knew what I was doing and I don't regret a thing."


 


> The affair lasted about nine months until he unceremoniously dropped me in favour of a gorgeous new arrival.


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## Manter (Jun 24, 2013)

"just good training for later life"


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## dylanredefined (Jun 24, 2013)

Manter said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/24/affair-pupil-teacher-abusive-jeremy-forrest
> 
> this woman thinks the thing most damaging about the Forrest/15 year old thing is that everyone is being so mean to them
> "I for one refuse to let the commentators and experts define my relationship with my teacher. I was not a child who was damaged by an abusive relationship with a paedophile. I was an intelligent young adult with the power of reason who knew what I was doing and I don't regret a thing."


 


No one cares. It is not about the student it is about the teacher who decided the rules don't apply to him. Whether it is because it is a genuine
love affair or he is just a perve who wants to shag school girls. No exception your going down and rightly so.


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## butchersapron (Jun 24, 2013)

Manter said:


> "just good training for later life"


 
I wonder what sort of school it was and what later life entailed given the free and easy guardian style employed.


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## Balbi (Jun 24, 2013)

That article misses the point in spectacular, damaging, misogynist trope enforcing style. Good training for being a clueless fuckwit.


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## trabuquera (Jun 24, 2013)

Metro 'newspaper' this morning seemed to have some quotes from Sleazy Teach's parents going right along with the "but he really LOVED her" and "we'll be ever so happy when he's out / she's of age and they can get married" lines ... understandable given they are his parents and can't bear to think he'd done wrong, but all the same pretty unusual that they were willing to talk on the record at all (instead of just slinking away in shame, or disowning him altogether.) A lot of dodgy attitudes all round


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## Manter (Jun 24, 2013)

trabuquera said:


> Metro 'newspaper' this morning seemed to have some quotes from Sleazy Teach's parents going right along with the "but he really LOVED her" and "we'll be ever so happy when he's out / she's of age and they can get married" lines ... understandable given they are his parents and can't bear to think he'd done wrong, but all the same pretty unusual that they were willing to talk on the record at all (instead of just slinking away in shame, or disowning him altogether.) A lot of dodgy attitudes all round


Yeah, and his sister has been hinting pretty heavily about the state of his marriage and how difficult it was, so he was depressed- blame the wife, eh? Not enough facepalms in the world


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## Balbi (Jun 24, 2013)

There's always a woman you can blame.


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## Greebo (Jun 24, 2013)

Balbi said:


> There's always a woman you can blame.


 
Sometimes she might even deserve it, but not this time. His wife didn't force him to cheat on her with somebody underage.


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## phildwyer (Jun 25, 2013)

Balbi said:


> misogynist trope enforcing


 
Ought to be against the law.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I wonder what sort of school it was and what later life entailed given the free and easy guardian style employed.


 
Finishing school, and then married off to someone called Farquhar MacTavish-Featherstonehaugh?


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## xslavearcx (Jun 25, 2013)

I think another factor that makes such relationships so problematic from the standpoint of the type of professional involved is the fact that when working with vulnerable young people, there is not a lot of difference between 'grooming' and 'engaging' with young people if you are in that kinda practice. The difference is that engaging with young people is about gaining the trust of a young person so that you can help facilitate the conditions of their empowerment whereby they cease to become vulnerable as they get the help they need and what not...Whereas grooming is obviously for nefarious ends. But the process of gaining someones trust isnt really that different.

Whats problematic then for professionals in that field (speaking as a former youthworker) is that when such positions are abused then it reflects badly upon the profession in general from a young persons point of view, and thus makes it much harder to have the kind of interventions that are required in those situations as trust has been undermined irrepably.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 26, 2013)

Giles said:


> Oh, come on. If having an early relationship that you later regret, is going to "mindfuck" you, then you're probably doomed to be "mindfucked" anyway. People move on.
> 
> Giles..


a bit aghast but hey I guess if you've never encountered it I can't really explain


Frances Lengel said:


> Her life hasn't been destroyed - Everyone's future relationships are (for better or worse) coloured by the past. She's not mindfucked, she had an ill-advised relationship, it's not the end of the world is it? If all goes well, she'll grow up a bit, realise her relationship with Jeremy was a bit OMG, and make miming fingers down her throat throwing up gestures when describing it to her mates.
> 
> Jeremy deserves every day of the time he's been given but don't write this girls life off as well, she can move on & she'll probably be alright - Is casting her in the role of a ruined victim for the rest of her life really in her best interests?


not casting her, just seeing the potential there is all.

anyway I'm sure by now others will have explained more eloquently then I eve could.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 26, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not if s/he loves you, then it's just the world greatest story gone wrong.





Citizen66 said:


> I hope nobody but 'Jez' is arguing that!


somebody argued that with me late into the night about a year ago, and that was someone who had been the young one in one of those relationship.


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## trashpony (Jun 26, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> somebody argued that with me late into the night about a year ago, and that was someone who had been the young one in one of those relationship.


They have to do that because the cognitive dissonance of the reality (that they were groomed by a predator) is too much to take


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## Fez909 (Jun 26, 2013)

Even aside from the wrongness of the power / age imbalance,  the thing that most shows that this isn't a case of forbidden love is that he called up the girl's parents, when he thought he was close to getting in bother, and lied about the nature of the relationship. He not only denied it was happening but he told her parents that she was making up lies to get him into trouble and that they need to sort her out. 

If it was truly a loving relationship he wouldn't have tried to shift the blame like that,  and especially wouldn't have gone beyond that into making out she was ruining his life / marriage.


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## Idris2002 (Jun 26, 2013)

There MIGHT, possibly, be this or that case of this kind (power/age imbalances) which is not actually exploitative or manipulative. . . but those are still to be condemned, because they help to provide cover for those cases that are exploitative and manipulative. . .


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 26, 2013)

Balbi said:


> There's always a woman you can blame.


is there?
/goes searching


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## Fez909 (Jun 26, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> There MIGHT, possibly, be this or that case of this kind (power/age imbalances) which is not actually exploitative or manipulative. . . but those are still to be condemned, because they help to provide cover for those cases that are exploitative and manipulative. . .


 
Yeah, I agree with this. They'll be in a small minority, but of course such a thing is likely to exist.

But the way he handled it, along with the other details of the case, prove that this definitely isn't one of those cases.


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## existentialist (Jun 26, 2013)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> somebody argued that with me late into the night about a year ago, and that was someone who had been the young one in one of those relationship.


There might be a tendency for someone who has been in the situation to want to legitimise their experience. 

Also, such a relationship isn't guaranteed to cause harm - it's a risk of harm. All safeguarding is about risk, because if we wait until we know that harm is being done, it's too late. 

I'm sure that there are examples of such relationships that are happy and successful, but all of them will have begun by an adult in a position of responsibility breaking rules that most will agree are there for good reason.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jun 26, 2013)

trashpony said:


> They have to do that because the cognitive dissonance of the reality (that they were groomed by a predator) is too much to take





existentialist said:


> There might be a tendency for someone who has been in the situation to want to legitimise their experience.
> 
> Also, such a relationship isn't guaranteed to cause harm - it's a risk of harm. All safeguarding is about risk, because if we wait until we know that harm is being done, it's too late.
> 
> I'm sure that there are examples of such relationships that are happy and successful, but all of them will have begun by an adult in a position of responsibility breaking rules that most will agree are there for good reason.


I've been remembering how the conversation went and I think my previous post was wrong so I'll correct this now (the conversation was late at night early in the morning after much drinking so there is my excuse), what he was actually arguing against was my use of the word paedophile in anything other than its' strict etymological meaning, and this was because he'd had several relations(hips?) with older men and that he did actually enjoy them and was actually seeking them, so it could be that he legitimises what happened to him but it could also be that he was "precociously" ready for this, I am not him so cannot know for sure but he certainly didn't seem to me like he had been harmed, the conversation ended with me conceding the point and using predator/abuser instead since that was where the discussion had originated from.

I hope this isn't too confused.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jun 26, 2013)

. wrong thread


----------



## 8ball (Jun 27, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Also, such a relationship isn't guaranteed to cause harm - it's a risk of harm. All safeguarding is about risk, because if we wait until we know that harm is being done, it's too late.


 
_Every_ relationship has a risk of harm.  Plenty of adults start up relationships where everyone can see it is going to be a car crash, why does the protection from this stop at the age of 16? 

I tend to view this thing more from the angle that if you're going to be a teacher looking after young children, then 'not fucking them' is pretty implicit to the deal.  The guy is more likely an immature idiot rather than some sort of monster imo.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 27, 2013)

8ball said:


> _Every_ relationship has a risk of harm.  Plenty of adults start up relationships where everyone can see it is going to be a car crash, why does the protection from this stop at the age of 16?



Well, yeah, but the harm potential does drop quite rapidly through adolescence, and you have to have some kind of cutoff somewhere - but we do have a societal responsibility, if we're going to put people in schools, to ensure that the risk to them from those whose care they are under is minimised. 


8ball said:


> I tend to view this thing more from the angle that if you're going to be a teacher looking after young children, then 'not fucking them' is pretty implicit to the deal.  The guy is more likely an immature idiot rather than some sort of monster imo.


Quite. And I agree that he's not a "monster", just someone whose sense of responsibility falls a long way short of what most of us would consider necessary in someone with responsibility for young people.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 27, 2013)

Agree on both counts. The fact that he was her teacher is the overriding thing in my opinion, rather than the age difference.


----------



## Manter (Jun 27, 2013)

8ball said:


> Agree on both counts. The fact that he was her teacher is the overriding thing in my opinion, rather than the age difference.


agree but with a caveat- the age difference makes little odds when you are talking about a, say, 17 year old and a 32 year old.  Or a 20 year old and a 70 year old- whatever, sometimes eyw, but basically none of our business.

But not only was he her teacher, she was also underage- and even if you think the age limits for sex/drinking/driving/voting are a bit arbitrary, they are laws to protect children from situations they don't have the physical, mental or emotional maturity to manage.  He started his entanglement with her when she was 13. I think he needs to be condemned for transgressing 1. by having sex with a child and 2. for breaking the 'adult in position of responsibility' code.

So if he was a random family friend I'd think he'd done wrong as she was a child.  If she was 17 I'd think he'd done wrong as he was her teacher: as it is, he's done 2 wrongs, IYSWIM


----------



## 8ball (Jun 27, 2013)

Manter said:


> He started his entanglement with her when she was 13.


 
I'd totally forgotten this part of the story when I posted the above tbh. Which, for most values of 'entanglement' does put a rather different slant on things.  In my estimation at least. 



Manter said:


> So if he was a random family friend I'd think he'd done wrong as she was a child. If she was 17 I'd think he'd done wrong as he was her teacher: as it is, he's done 2 wrongs, IYSWIM


 
I'd think the same.  What if he wasn't her teacher, had met her at 15 but they hadn't done anything about it until she was 16?


----------



## Manter (Jun 27, 2013)

8ball said:


> I'd think the same. What if he wasn't her teacher, had met her at 15 but they hadn't done anything about it until she was 16?


teacher.  So not quite as wrong but still wrong, IYSWIM.   Same as if he'd been her doctor, therapist, social worker....  the relationship is supposed to be trust, safe place, support, boundaries (existentialist explained it much better than I can earlier in the thread!) not a sort of puppy farm for future dates.

Incidentally, a family friend I have known since I was 9 told me a few years ago that I had to 'know how he'd always felt about me' and tried to kiss me.  I'm in my 30s now, and at the time was single, but it still made me go 'eyw' as he had known me as a child and had been a father figure.  It felt, to me, like crossing a boundary (how can you fancy a woman you've seen with acne crying over her first crush at 13?  or picked up after a jumping-out-of-a-tree-clutching-an-umbrella-because-it-worked-for-Mary-Poppins accident at 9?).  So emotionally I feel uncomfortable with a lot more than I can rationalise- but the age/position of trust boundaries feel to me like very firm ones


----------



## Metal Malcolm (Jun 27, 2013)

Manter said:


> He started his entanglement with her when she was 13.


 
Was that the case? I thought i'd seen that he started teaching her at 13, but the 'relationship' for want of a better word, started at 15.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 27, 2013)

Manter said:


> teacher. So not quite as wrong but still wrong, IYSWIM. Same as if he'd been her doctor, therapist, social worker.... the relationship is supposed to be trust, safe place, support, boundaries (existentialist explained it much better than I can earlier in the thread!) not a sort of puppy farm for future dates.


 
Agreed, but actually asked about the case where he wasn't her teacher/doctor/sensei etc.



Manter said:


> Incidentally, a family friend I have known since I was 9 told me a few years ago that I had to 'know how he'd always felt about me' and tried to kiss me. I'm in my 30s now, and at the time was single, but it still made me go 'eyw' as he had known me as a child and had been a father figure. It felt, to me, like crossing a boundary (how can you fancy a woman you've seen with acne crying over her first crush at 13? or picked up after a jumping-out-of-a-tree-clutching-an-umbrella-because-it-worked-for-Mary-Poppins accident at 9?). So emotionally I feel uncomfortable with a lot more than I can rationalise- but the age/position of trust boundaries feel to me like very firm ones


 
That makes total sense to me.  People who are adults when you are a child seem like a different 'kind' of adult somehow ('proper adults' I call them).


----------



## Manter (Jun 27, 2013)

Metal Malcolm said:


> Was that the case? I thought i'd seen that he started teaching her at 13, but the 'relationship' for want of a better word, started at 15.


 I can't face going back through the thread (it's HUGE!!) but one of the articles linked to earlier says his colleagues had warned him that there were rumours and to sort himself out 18 months ago, and the head teacher warned him when she was 14.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 27, 2013)

8ball said:


> Agreed, but actually asked about the case where he wasn't her teacher/doctor/sensei etc.


 
Then the boundaries are more blurred. Legally, it's very clear - and a 30 year old starting a sexual relationship with a 15 year old needs to be able to expect to get the book thrown at them. Morally...iffier. I still think that there is something rather unusual about a 30 year old finding a 15 year old attractive and appealing enough (apart from just physically) to want to embark on a relationship with one - across that age range, there is so much difference, that it'd be a bit of a rarity to find one that worked out. Rare enough that it's probably not unreasonable for society's response, generally, to be a kind of "hmmmm" one, at the very least.

I think 8ball was about right in his description of Forrest as an "immature idiot" - he sounds like someone who hadn't really matured very much himself, and perhaps it was natural to him to find 15 year olds appealing as potential partners, thanks to his immaturity. Shame that hadn't been spotted at some stage along the teacher training/recruitment path, really.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 27, 2013)

Manter said:


> I can't face going back through the thread (it's HUGE!!) but one of the articles linked to earlier says his colleagues had warned him that there were rumours and to sort himself out 18 months ago, and the head teacher warned him when she was 14.


 
They have been a bit naughty, too. I have no idea if those concerns were reported per statutory rules, but they should have been. Which is easy to say in hindsight, and their disclosure wouldn't have guaranteed that anything would have been done. But, really, alarm bells should have been ringing fairly continuously once it became, essentially, common knowledge that an inappropriate relationship was underway. No wonder she's smitten, now - he's had plenty of time to inveigle himself into her emotions.


----------



## Manter (Jun 27, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I think 8ball was about right in his description of Forrest as an "immature idiot" - he sounds like someone who hadn't really matured very much himself, and perhaps it was natural to him to find 15 year olds appealing as potential partners, thanks to his immaturity. Shame that hadn't been spotted at some stage along the teacher training/recruitment path, really.


yes- the no one noticing he had maturity issues thing is a v good point


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 27, 2013)

existentialist said:


> They have been a bit naughty, too.


 
Much worse than a bit naughty? If they felt the need to have words with him then it's already out there and they're involved too regardless of whatever's going on. And if nothing is going on, an innocent infatuation say then any team involved in any type of care situation should be professional enough to discuss it openly. No special relationships and no secrets is a good golden rule. Then, after discussing the issue in a calm and professional manner they should have burnt his house down.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 27, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Much worse than a bit naughty?


I was going for the hyperbole-by-understatement thing


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 28, 2013)

*bump*

She's dumped him for a younger man after promising to wait forever. Like nobody saw that coming.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ps-jailed-teacher-lover-ran-away-boy-age.html


----------



## Favelado (Oct 28, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> *bump*
> 
> She's dumped him for a younger man after promising to wait forever. Like nobody saw that coming.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ps-jailed-teacher-lover-ran-away-boy-age.html



I would have expected him to have further screwed up her life by dumping her for someone else so this is almost a turn up for the books.

Edit. He's in prison so not that likely I guess really.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 28, 2013)

I don't think he's meeting many underage girls where he is at the moment.


----------



## Casually Red (Oct 28, 2013)

Manter said:


> I can't face going back through the thread (it's HUGE!!) but one of the articles linked to earlier says his colleagues had warned him that there were rumours and to sort himself out 18 months ago, and the head teacher warned him when she was 14.



i didnt know that . Thats well wronger than it was .


----------



## Favelado (Oct 28, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I don't think he's meeting many underage girls where he is at the moment.



My edit reflects that - although "someone else" didn't rule out a prison boyfriend.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 28, 2013)

Thankfully, Alkaline Trio lyrics have only ever left me with a broken phone.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 29, 2013)

The parents probably played a blinder "oh course we will support you dear I think its a really brilliant idea you wait around 4 years for your jailed boyfriend to get out of jail"

 Que no more intrest form moody teenage girl


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 30, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> *bump*
> 
> She's dumped him for a younger man after promising to wait forever. Like nobody saw that coming.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ps-jailed-teacher-lover-ran-away-boy-age.html



Proper weird comments in the Mail describing her as a 'temptress' and the teacher as 'screwed over'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 30, 2013)

yes but the mails comment threads on these matters are filled with uber misogynists whose only meaningful relationship is the one they have with a wank sock


----------



## Badgers (Oct 30, 2013)

Belushi said:
			
		

> I don't think he's meeting many underage girls where he is at the moment.



I bet some have written to him


----------



## revol68 (Oct 30, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I bet some have written to him



You know Fritzl has received love letters since getting sent down...

Sick, sad world.


----------



## Fez909 (Oct 30, 2013)

Why is this being reported? The Mail should leave her alone  It doesn't matter that she isn't named in the article. Everyone knows her name. The very same website still has stories up identifying her.

Non-story. Fuck off, Mail.


----------



## Casually Red (Oct 30, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> yes but the mails comment threads on these matters are filled with uber misogynists whose only meaningful relationship is the one they have with a wank sock





i feel really sorry for the socks now


----------



## Wilf (Oct 30, 2013)

revol68 said:


> You know Fritzl has received love letters since getting sent down...
> 
> Sick, sad world.


 Wouldn't rule out him being in the next Celebrity Big Brother.


----------



## JimW (Oct 30, 2013)

Or on a Tory housing committee


----------



## Casually Red (Oct 30, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Wouldn't rule out him being in the next Celebrity Big Brother.



wouldnt fancy being the _secret housemate_ on that one


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 31, 2013)

revol68 said:


> You know Fritzl has received love letters since getting sent down...
> 
> Sick, sad world.



From what an article in _Das Bild_ said last year, most of the letters are from Austrian and American women.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

I wonder if Forrest will write one of his whimsical love songs now he's been dumped. It's not like he's short of the time.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

8ball said:


> Agree on both counts. The fact that he was her teacher is the overriding thing in my opinion, rather than the age difference.



he had form too, trying to get other females pupils of his to go and see his amazing rock act in local pubs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 31, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> he had form too, trying to get other females pupils of his to go and see his amazing rock act in local pubs.


so iyo 'come and see my awesome band in the pub' is equivalent to 'get your knickers down and spread your legs for your teacher'


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 31, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I wonder if Forrest will write one of his whimsical love songs now he's been dumped. It's not like he's short of the time.



Short of instruments though.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> so iyo 'come and see my awesome band in the pub' is equivalent to 'get your knickers down and spread your legs for your teacher'



Nope. Where is the evidence that I do? The "form" is for being distinctly inappropriate towards young female students in his professional care.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Short of instruments though.




From what I read, the chaplain can be very helpful in this regard.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 31, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Nope. Where is the evidence that I do? The "form" is for being distinctly inappropriate towards young female students in his professional care.


how is saying 'come and see my band' 'distinctly inappropriate'? for all you know he said the same thing to young men in his professional care.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> how is saying 'come and see my band' 'distinctly inappropriate'? for all you know he said the same thing to young men in his professional care.



Inviting a schoolgirl you teach to the pub is indeed inappropriate. I've worked as a music teacher in schools on and off for over 15 years. I've also worked in FE where i wouldn't consider the behaviour nearly as inappropriate from a standing start. Further, he didn't invite the girls in a capacity of a music teacher. We know he ended up having an affair with such a girl, so that's evidence enough that his intent might have been even more inappropriate. 

We don't know if he invited lads as well, though none are reported, I'll grant it's less newsworthy given an assumption that he is heterosexual.

Now, are you appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you just like having a dig? Alternatively I wonder if a neice of yours was asked out in such a way by a teacher of that age if no alarm bells at all would go off in your mind, or if you'd be as smartarse against anyone who did raise them. Is Butchers on a teabreak?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 31, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Inviting a schoolgirl you teach to the pub is indeed inappropriate. I've worked as a music teacher in schools on and off for over 15 years. I've also worked in FE where i wouldn't consider the behaviour nearly as inappropriate from a standing start. Further, he didn't invite the girls in a capacity of a music teacher. We know he ended up having an affair with such a girl, so that's evidence enough that his intent might have been even more inappropriate.
> 
> We don't know if he invited lads as well, though none are reported, I'll grant it's less newsworthy given an assumption that he is heterosexual.
> 
> Now, are you appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you just like having a dig? Alternatively I wonder if a neice of yours was asked out in such a way by a teacher of that age if no alarm bells at all would go off in your mind, or if you'd be as smartarse against anyone who did raise them. Is Butchers on a teabreak?


so you should never be challenged or questioned, is what you're saying.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> so you should never be challenged or questioned, is what you're saying.



How good you are at telling people what they're saying when they're not saying it. Is it something you put special effort into, or did you just pick it up through osmosis round here?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Inviting a schoolgirl you teach to the pub is indeed inappropriate. I've worked as a music teacher in schools on and off for over 15 years. I've also worked in FE where i wouldn't consider the behaviour nearly as inappropriate from a standing start. Further, he didn't invite the girls in a capacity of a music teacher. We know he ended up having an affair with such a girl, so that's evidence enough that his intent might have been even more inappropriate.
> 
> We don't know if he invited lads as well, though none are reported, I'll grant it's less newsworthy given an assumption that he is heterosexual.
> 
> Now, are you appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you just like having a dig? Alternatively I wonder if a neice of yours was asked out in such a way by a teacher of that age if no alarm bells at all would go off in your mind, or if you'd be as smartarse against anyone who did raise them. Is Butchers on a teabreak?



I don't like the suggestion here that  i defend paedophiles, i don't like the suggestion that me and pickman's model defend paedophiles together. Sort yourself out.


----------



## revol68 (Oct 31, 2013)

Regarding pupils going to see teachers bands, I know a guy who played in a band and tons of his pupils went to his gigs, there was nothinf dodgy about it though.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Oct 31, 2013)

Forrest was/is dodgy because he had a relationship with an underage girl who was also his pupil. He probably did use his being in a band as a way facilitating that relationship, but there's nothing inherently dodgy about a music teacher trying to foster an interest in the subject by encouraging his/her pupils to see the band they're in.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I don't like the suggestion here that  i defend paedophiles, i don't like the suggestion that me and pickman's model defend paedophiles together. Sort yourself out.



What a relief I didn't suggest you defend paedophiles. It's not a word I've used at all on this thread in fact. You being "on a teabreak" was a reference to general over-pickyness.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Forrest was/is dodgy because he had a relationship with an underage girl who was also his pupil. He probably did use his being in a band as a way facilitating that relationship, but there's nothing inherently dodgy about a music teacher trying to foster an interest in the subject by encouraging his/her pupils to see the band they're in.



He isn't / wasn't a music teacher. Maths.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

As a music teacher, if I was gigging at a pub/club and thought 15ish year old students would genuinely benefit from seeing it, I would mention it to them as a group. That alone could well be controversial among many management for a bunch of reasons (whether or not one thinks it should be).

but to ask individual girls - nope. I'm a bit surprised anyone wouldn't see the problem with that.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What a relief I didn't suggest you defend paedophiles. It's not a word I've used at all on this thread in fact. You being "on a teabreak" was a reference to general over-pickyness.


Yes you did:




			
				you said:
			
		

> Now, are you appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you just like having a dig? Alternatively I wonder if a neice of yours was asked out in such a way by a teacher of that age if no alarm bells at all would go off in your mind, or if you'd be as smartarse against anyone who did raise them. Is Butchers on a teabreak?



You clearly engage and suggest that P'ms is responding as he did on the laziness of his attitude to paedophiles, or even defending  them. You then suggest that he is doing this because i am not here to do so.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 31, 2013)

I apologise if it comes over that way, it's not what I was thinking. I was certainly accusing PM of just that, it's true. He was making excuses for something dubious for a reason I couldn't figure beyond having a go. 

Falling over oneself to have a go somehow brought your good self to mind.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2013)

You owe him an apology then as well if you owe me one.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Oct 31, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> He isn't / wasn't a music teacher. Maths.



That doesn't really alter the point I was making. Not much anyway.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> how is saying 'come and see my band' 'distinctly inappropriate'? for all you know he said the same thing to young men in his professional care.



It was clearly inappropriate. Consequences and cases and all that.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 31, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Regarding pupils going to see teachers bands, I know a guy who played in a band and tons of his pupils went to his gigs, there was nothinf dodgy about it though.



If anyone in my school spent an evening hanging out watching a teacher's band they'd have had the piss ripped mercilessly out of them for the rest of their days.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 1, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You owe him an apology then as well if you owe me one.



No I don't. I was legitimately asking if he was "appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you <he> just like<s> having a dig?"

I wasn't asking the same of you, but it could have been read that way. Hence the rightful apology to you.

I wasn't accusing him of defending a paedophile, I was asking him if he was defending someone (who I didn't describe as one)

For someone who picks others apart morning, noon and night you've once again not been very precise yourselves. Will you ever stop making stuff up?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 1, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> No I don't. I was legitimately asking if he was "appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you <he> just like<s> having a dig?"
> 
> I wasn't asking the same of you, but it could have been read that way. Hence the rightful apology to you.
> 
> ...





> He was making excuses for something dubious for a reason I couldn't figure beyond having a go.



You apologised to me for your suggestion that i _might _defend paedophilia for personal advantage. How much more heartfelt and emphatic  must your apology to pickman's model be for accusing him of _actually _defending paedophilia for personal advantage?

_I wasn't accusing him *of *beating his wife, i was merely asking if he *still *did. _


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I apologise if it comes over that way, it's not what I was thinking. I was certainly accusing PM of just that, it's true. He was making excuses for something dubious for a reason I couldn't figure beyond having a go.
> 
> Falling over oneself to have a go somehow brought your good self to mind.


you only make yourself look stupid when you claim i was 'making excuses' when i was clearly doing nothing of the sort.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> No I don't. I was legitimately asking if he was "appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you <he> just like<s> having a dig?"
> 
> I wasn't asking the same of you, but it could have been read that way. Hence the rightful apology to you.
> 
> ...


i'll tell you what, you owe the english language an apology for mangling it - appearing defensive of a man? what sort of cackhanded crap is that? but while you're about it, perhaps you could elaborate on your notion of legitimate questions and highlight for me that point at which you consider legitimate questioning becomes illegitimate questioning.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

Mr Moose said:


> It was clearly inappropriate. Consequences and cases and all that.


HOW is it inappropriate? don't try to fob me off with some guff about consequences, elaborate your case.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> As a music teacher, if I was gigging at a pub/club and thought 15ish year old students would genuinely benefit from seeing it, I would mention it to them as a group. That alone could well be controversial among many management for a bunch of reasons (whether or not one thinks it should be).
> 
> but to ask individual girls - nope. I'm a bit surprised anyone wouldn't see the problem with that.


but you've already said above you don't know who he said it to.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Inviting a schoolgirl you teach to the pub is indeed inappropriate. I've worked as a music teacher in schools on and off for over 15 years. I've also worked in FE where i wouldn't consider the behaviour nearly as inappropriate from a standing start. Further, he didn't invite the girls in a capacity of a music teacher. We know he ended up having an affair with such a girl, so that's evidence enough that his intent might have been even more inappropriate.
> 
> We don't know if he invited lads as well, though none are reported, I'll grant it's less newsworthy given an assumption that he is heterosexual.
> 
> Now, are you appearing defensive of a man convicted of child abduction, and with a record of inappropriate behaviour towards schoolgirls because you just like having a dig? Alternatively I wonder if a neice of yours was asked out in such a way by a teacher of that age if no alarm bells at all would go off in your mind, or if you'd be as smartarse against anyone who did raise them. Is Butchers on a teabreak?


i ask again, HOW is it inappropriate? as a longstanding teacher this should be a bread and butter question so it is something of a disappointment that you haven't thus far been able to answer the question, instead posting up some pointless piffle.


----------



## RubyBlue (Nov 1, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> HOW is it inappropriate? don't try to fob me off with some guff about consequences, elaborate your case.


 


Pickman's model said:


> i ask again, HOW is it inappropriate? as a longstanding teacher this should be a bread and butter question so it is something of a disappointment that you haven't thus far been able to answer the question, instead posting up some pointless piffle.


 
12 and 9 minutes ago - not asking for much - he's prob at work.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 1, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Yes you did:
> 
> 
> 
> You clearly engage and suggest that *P'ms* is responding as he did on the laziness of his attitude to paedophiles, or even defending  them. You then suggest that he is doing this because i am not here to do so.



Freudian slip?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

RubyBlue said:


> 12 and 9 minutes ago - not asking for much - he's prob at work.


in half term?


----------



## RubyBlue (Nov 1, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> in half term?


 
Who cares?  Is he answerable to anyone here?  After 10 minutes?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 1, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Freudian slip?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

RubyBlue said:


> Who cares?  Is he answerable to anyone here?  After 10 minutes?


yes. and after 20 mins, 1 hour and indeed 1 week.


----------



## RubyBlue (Nov 1, 2013)

OK - 1 week?  Then I apologise - feeling shit today - no excuse


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

RubyBlue said:


> OK - 1 week?  Then I apologise - feeling shit today - no excuse


it's ok, come here to vent, everyone else does.


----------



## cesare (Nov 1, 2013)

"Piffle" is a great word Pickman's model


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

cesare said:


> "Piffle" is a great word Pickman's model


often used in the phrase "farting piffle"


----------



## Mr Moose (Nov 1, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> HOW is it inappropriate? don't try to fob me off with some guff about consequences, elaborate your case.



Let's make the distinction between the instance and the universal. It was clearly inappropriate for him in the same way it was inappropriate for him to be a teacher. He was an adult who could become infatuated with children in his care. It's not unreasonable given the outcome that his invitation was more of the 'come and see my etchings' type than a musical awakening.

Is it wrong for any teacher to share their creative pastimes with their pupils? That would be overly prescriptive.

Most teachers choose not to. The boundary between them and their pupils is something they don't wish to blur. Maybe there is some purpose in teachers showing a more human side in this way, but it's not a compelling one and has its risks.

And as for sharing 'your music'. Hmmm, Rock n roll it's all about sex and youth. I don't think it would be greatly advisable to share this with your pupils. It's mostly going to look odd or be embarrassing dad rock to them.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 1, 2013)

Mr Moose said:


> <snip>And as for sharing 'your music'. Hmmm, Rock n roll it's all about sex and *youth.* I don't think it would be greatly advisable to share this with your pupils. It's mostly going to look odd or be embarrassing dad rock to them.



Is it fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Is it fuck.


indeed it is increasingly about geriatrics


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 1, 2013)

cesare said:


> "Piffle" is a great word Pickman's model



Used to be a Jazzz speciality.


----------



## scifisam (Nov 1, 2013)

It'd be well dodgy for any adult to invite a fifteen-year-old to see their band in a pub, because of the venue. Some pubs are family venues, but not when "rock" bands are playing there.


----------



## white rabbit (Nov 1, 2013)

The media salivating over this story isn't very edifying. Just leave her the fuck alone, Daily Mail.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 1, 2013)

When I was 15 my english teacher tried to get me and friends barred from a pub for heckling his folk group


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

likesfish said:


> When I was 15 my english teacher tried to get me and friends barred from a pub for heckling his folk group


did he try to get you in the family way?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

scifisam said:


> It'd be well dodgy for any adult to invite a fifteen-year-old to see their band in a pub, because of the venue. Some pubs are family venues, but not when "rock" bands are playing there.


yes because all rock bands are only after one thing


----------



## scifisam (Nov 1, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> yes because all rock bands are only after one thing




Either you genuinely think adult men asking teenagers to the pub is OK, or you're trolling. Either way, I can't be arsed arguing with you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Either you genuinely think adult men asking teenagers to the pub is OK, or you're trolling. Either way, I can't be arsed arguing with you.


so you can't or won't explain what you meant by


scifisam said:


> Some pubs are family venues, but not when "rock" bands are playing there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Either you genuinely think adult men asking teenagers to the pub is OK, or you're trolling. Either way, I can't be arsed arguing with you.


i'm sure the great majority of male posters on these boards have, after becoming adults, invited teenage girls to pubs. i know i have and i'm not ashamed of it. and the great majority of women on these boards will, i believe, have been - while teenagers - invited to pubs by adult men and happily gone. you say you can't be arsed to argue with me. i say you're unable to argue with me. i wouldn't be surprised if your new-found reticence wasn't caused rather by embarrassment at your pisspoor posts in this little exchange.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 1, 2013)

No I dont remember after the age of 21 wanting to invite under age girls to a pub.
  Even as a squaddie I didnt want to sleep with 15 year olds ok they may have been mentally more mature than me but its illegal and wrong.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 1, 2013)

likesfish said:


> No I dont remember after the age of 21 wanting to invite under age girls to a pub.
> Even as a squaddie I didnt want to sleep with 15 year olds ok they may have been mentally more mature than me but its illegal and wrong.



Inviting someone to the pub doesn't equate to wanting to nob them. 
Or does it?




Fancy a pint?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

likesfish said:


> No I dont remember after the age of 21 wanting to invite under age girls to a pub.
> Even as a squaddie I didnt want to sleep with 15 year olds ok they may have been mentally more mature than me but its illegal and wrong.


i never said anything about underage girls, did i


----------



## Favelado (Nov 1, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm sure the great majority of male posters on these boards have, after becoming adults, invited teenage girls to pubs. i know i have and i'm not ashamed of it. and the great majority of women on these boards will, i believe, have been - while teenagers - invited to pubs by adult men and happily gone. you say you can't be arsed to argue with me. i say you're unable to argue with me. i wouldn't be surprised if your new-found reticence wasn't caused rather by embarrassment at your pisspoor posts in this little exchange.



What age are the teenage girls in question? I might have been 19 and invited a 17 old to the pub but even at 21 that would have felt ropey. When you're younger those age differences seem big.


----------



## revol68 (Nov 1, 2013)

A chemistry teacher at my school apparently banged a few pupils after they had left, he wasn't much to look at tbf but I guess being able to say you banged your teacher has it appeal.


----------



## revol68 (Nov 1, 2013)

Favelado said:


> What age are the teenage girls in question? I might have been 19 and invited a 17 old to the pub but even at 21 that would have felt ropey. When you're younger those age differences seem big.



Yeah I remember my mates winding me up for going with a 17 when I was 20, to think it bothered me.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

I understand yer man's history is dodgy as fuck but it's not fair to generalise that any adult (or teacher for that matter) has ulterior motives when asking young people to come and see a gig or session.

I invite young teenagers (and children) to pubs all the time to listen to music. I've also taken groups of young teenagers abroad to perform at Folk festivals with 30,000 mostly drunk and stoned people at them.

Never tried to shag any of them though. Not even their mums.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Nov 2, 2013)

15 and 30 aint that weird. I was involved with a 27 year old when i was 16, and i was really young for my age, and not affected by this....she mightnt be either

they might actually be in love....


----------



## Cheesypoof (Nov 2, 2013)

some of urbans perves and desperadoes are on this thread....im just skimming it now....i think anyone reading it should be mindful of others posts...


----------



## revol68 (Nov 2, 2013)

Cheesypoof said:


> some of urbans perves and desperadoes are on this thread....im just skimming it now....i think anyone reading it should be mindful of others posts...



Huh?


----------



## Cheesypoof (Nov 2, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Huh?


 
yeh. there are some  perverts (not that many, not nonces, but grim thinkers) and a few sexually starved goons that come on here espec late and analyse stuff too much. being a woman too, you notice. There are a few on urban dontcha know


----------



## Mr Moose (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I invite young teenagers (and children) to pubs all the time to listen to music. I've also taken groups of young teenagers abroad to perform at Folk festivals with 30,000 mostly drunk and stoned people at them.
> 
> Never tried to shag any of them though. Not even their mums.



How do you think that makes their Mum's feel?


----------



## Mr Moose (Nov 2, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Is it fuck.



Yes it is. Even if it's played by coffin dodgers. Mick Jagger is still using it as a vehicle to lay his increasingly rattly frame on some younger flesh by all accounts.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 2, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> indeed it is increasingly about geriatrics




Surely you mean geriatricks?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2013)

rock and roll will never die.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr Moose said:


> How do you think that makes their Mum's feel?



safe, secure and comfortable - as they, and all parents, should be able to feel


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 2, 2013)

Cheesypoof said:


> some of urbans perves and desperadoes are on this thread....im just skimming it now....i think anyone reading it should be mindful of others posts...



Don';t you see the rather large contradiction between you saying "i think anyone reading it should be mindful of others posts...", and you saying "...im just skimming it now...."?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr Moose said:


> How do you think that makes their Mum's feel?



Deeply relieved.


----------



## Sweet FA (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr Moose said:


> How do you think that makes their Mum's feel?


Their mum's what?


----------



## scifisam (Nov 2, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i never said anything about underage girls, did i



We were talking specifically about 15-year-olds, if you read back.
 And it would be a non-discussion if the girls aren't underage. So yes, you did.


----------



## Favelado (Nov 2, 2013)

Were you inviting teenage girls to pubs in your 30's and 40's Pickman's model?


----------



## scifisam (Nov 2, 2013)

Liam, you really invite young teenagers to the pub, without their parents? I think you're being just a little disingenuous here. Sounds like you're a music teacher or youth worker taking kids to gigs in an organised way with parental consent - not quite the same thing, is it?


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Liam, you really invite young teenagers to the pub, without their parents? I think you're being just a little disingenuous here. Sounds like you're a music teacher or youth worker taking kids to gigs in an organised way with parental consent - not quite the same thing, is it?



Yes. I am involved in community arts and music, though not as a music teacher.

While I accept that this particular individual may have had ulterior motives, I don't think it is unreasonable for you to accept there are actually occasions when I, or others, would have legitimate reason to invite teens and kids to social events/gigs/sessions.

There are GAA clubs and a cultural centre (Licensed premises all) round here where teens and even younger kids wander in and out as they please. This is a good thing and one of the benefits of living in a community.


----------



## dylanredefined (Nov 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> rock and roll will never die.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2013)

Favelado said:


> What age are the teenage girls in question? I might have been 19 and invited a 17 old to the pub but even at 21 that would have felt ropey. When you're younger those age differences seem big.


i was inviting 17, 18 and even 19 year olds to pubs when i was 18, 19, 20, and indeed 21 (although by that point the women in question were 18 and 19)


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2013)

scifisam said:


> We were talking specifically about 15-year-olds, if you read back.
> And it would be a non-discussion if the girls aren't underage. So yes, you did.


so you thought 'here's a jape, i'll paint pickman's model as a paedo': there's something dishonest about you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Were you inviting teenage girls to pubs in your 30's and 40's Pickman's model?


why would i?


----------



## Favelado (Nov 2, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> why would i?



It was a possibility if you were a filthy perv. You're now clarifying that you're not. Cheers.


----------



## scifisam (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Yes. I am involved in community arts and music, though not as a music teacher.
> 
> While I accept that this particular individual may have had ulterior motives, I don't think it is unreasonable for you to accept there are actually occasions when I, or others, would have legitimate reason to invite teens and kids to social events/gigs/sessions.
> 
> There are GAA clubs and a cultural centre (Licensed premises all) round here where teens and even younger kids wander in and out as they please. This is a good thing and one of the benefits of living in a community.



Nah, you're talking about something completely different and you must know it. If one of the 15-year-old kids you teach was asked to the pub by their maths teacher, or an adult make family friend, you wouldn't think that was well fucking dodgy?

Pickman's, we were talking about underage girls and adult men. Not teenagers asking out teenagers. I was very clear in my posts.

Do you have any other completely irrelevant anecdotes to share so that you get a little more attention? Do you want to try a little harder to try to make yourself sound like a paedo just so you have the chance to take offence?


----------



## scifisam (Nov 2, 2013)

Actually, forget all that. I'm just putting you on ignore. I wouldn't talk to someone like you in real life, so I won't on here either.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

put me on too... and fuck off


----------



## scifisam (Nov 2, 2013)

Being told for fuck off for saying it's dodgy for adult men to ask fifteen-year-olds to the pub. This place is insane.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Being told for fuck off for saying it's dodgy for adult men to ask fifteen-year-olds to the pub. This place is insane.



That is not an accurate reflection of what has occurred here. At all.

The fact that you claim it is... and I understand your need to rationalise...  is one more good reason not to engage any further with you.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Nah, you're talking about something completely different and you must know it. If one of the 15-year-old kids you teach was asked to the pub by their maths teacher, or an adult make family friend, you wouldn't think that was well fucking dodgy?



I have made myself clear several times.

I can think of many entirely innocent circumstances in which an adult male might invite teens or kids onto licensed premises where they, the adult, might be playing music. I have done this many times. My kids have been invited many times by others. That is all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Being told for fuck off for saying it's dodgy for adult men to ask fifteen-year-olds to the pub. This place is insane.


while i don't suppose you'll see this, anyone with more than half a functioning brain will see i haven't told you to fuck off. i did ask you to explain your quip about '"rock" bands': but you said you couldn't be arsed to argue with me. as i said above, you proved unable to argue with me. and fingering people as nonces is not, fyi, arguing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Actually, forget all that. I'm just putting you on ignore. I wouldn't talk to someone like you in real life, so I won't on here either.


you would talk to someone like me irl. and then i'd have to go and wash my hands and have a bath to get the stench of you off me.


----------



## weepiper (Nov 2, 2013)

fucking hell.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 2, 2013)

I've taken my mate's daughter to the pub.Twice. One time she was bored during the school holidays and tagged along with me when I went shopping, anyway I fancied a pint so I took her to the pub & bought her some chips and an orange juice. The other time we were waiting for her mum who was at an appointment & it was a case of fuck this standing about waiting, fancy a swift half? So I texted her mum and said "We'll be in Spoons". Fuck all dodgy about it, but I was a bloke in his thirties taking a fifteen year old girl to the pub.


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

Urbannonceafuckinggeddon. Again! Fuck off. Everyone!


----------



## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I have made myself clear several times.
> 
> I can think of many entirely innocent circumstances in which an adult male might invite teens or kids onto licensed premises where they, the adult, might be playing music. I have done this many times. My kids have been invited many times by others. That is all.


inviting a lot of them - not as dodgy as inviting one to the pub, wouldn't you agree ?


----------



## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

there is also the question of professional boundaries, can't be arsed reading all of this thread but surely this has been mentioned?


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

marty21 said:


> inviting a lot of them - not as dodgy as inviting one to the pub, wouldn't you agree ?


 
No he wouldn't agree cos he's a mad nonce. Fuck off. Really just fuck off.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> I've taken my mate's daughter to the pub.Twice. One time she was bored during the school holidays and tagged along with me when I went shopping, anyway I fancied a pint so I took her to the pub & bought her some chips and an orange juice. The other time we were waiting for her mum who was at an appointment & it was a case of fuck this standing about waiting, fancy a swift half? So I texted her mum and said "We'll be in Spoons". Fuck all dodgy about it, but I was a bloke in his thirties taking a fifteen year old girl to the pub.


the last teenage girl i took to a pub was frogwoman


----------



## snadge (Nov 2, 2013)

There's some right window bangers on here isn't there.


----------



## xenon (Nov 2, 2013)

It is a bit dodgy a teacher inviting a specific 15 YO to the pub. That's not a class outing, not an activity group. Not a mate looking after a mate's child whilst they're off doing something. It's a teacher inviting one child to the pub.

Oh yeah but what if they're lost on a walking holiday and need to get out of the rain...

Fuck off with teadious nitpicking.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> No he wouldn't agree cos he's a mad nonce. Fuck off. Really just fuck off.


you're telling me to fuck off ?


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

snadge said:


> There's some right *window bangers* on here isn't there.



Oh dear. Watch out, the thread police will hardly let that gross slur pass un-fingerwagged.


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the last teenage girl i took to a pub was frogwoman





Pickman's model said:


> the last teenage girl i took to a pub was frogwoman


 
Brilliant! or it better be!


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

marty21 said:


> you're telling me to fuck off ?


 
yep


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Nov 2, 2013)

xenon said:


> It is a bit dodgy a teacher inviting a specific 15 YO to the pub.



Yep, it is, and it's the sort of behaviour that is actively prohibited by the codes of conduct schools use.  For example, the General Teaching Council's "Code of Conduct and Practice for Registered Teachers" (which is still used by a large number of schools, even though the council has been disbanded) has, as part of it's first principle, the requirement to "Establish and maintain appropriate professional boundaries in their relationships with children and young people"

To give you an idea just how an appropriate professional boundary is defined, the GTC had specifically stated in disciplinary cases "Teachers must not establish or seek to establish social contact with pupils, children or young people for the purpose of securing a friendship or to pursue or strengthen a relationship."

It's hard to view how a 30 year old teacher inviting a 15 year old pupil to a pub to see his band is not clearly in breach of these guidelines.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 2, 2013)

as a heterosexual female teacher it would still be inappropriate for me to invite a 15 year old girl to the pub.  it would also be inappropriate for me to invite a 15 year old boy.

at my school teachers have been disciplined for meeting up with small groups of sixth formers for pizza after their exam results have come out - which is more of a grey area...  but under sixteens on a social occasion without seeking parental consent? It's clearly inappropriate. I am their teacher - not their friend. There MUST be boundaries, and not just for reasons of potential sexual misconduct. These are children.  They have a right to unambiguous, delineated relationships.


----------



## mentalchik (Nov 2, 2013)

now stop it you two.......putting reasonable points on this thread, it's all go to pot you know !


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

marty21 said:


> inviting a lot of them - not as dodgy as inviting one to the pub, wouldn't you agree ?


 
Just read thread again. Apologies. Took it wrong I think.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> These are children.  They have a right to unambiguous, delineated relationships.



and what if the children and the teachers or Coaches and their respective families are all friends, are inter-related, are all part of the same community and all use the same pubs and clubs?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 2, 2013)

as it happens, i have a group of kids, currently in year ten - so 14-15, wwho i really enjoy the company of.  They are my 'drama girls'... stalwarts of drama squad and school plays and super-dedicated to their drama classes since they were 11. I've got to know them very well and they regualrly spend an hour or two a day hanging around the studio, working on something or just chatting and being daft.  I like them loads and loads.  They matter to me, and it's a huge privilege to be their favourite teacher and to be an influential adult in their life, able to show them another perspective on the world, as a role model of sorts...  

But that's all it is.  I sometimes take them on theatre trips but it's done with consent forms and it's offered to other kids too, and there are other staff members.  I wouldn't add them on facebook and I wouldn't give them my phone number and I wouldn't invite them to the pub.  it's never even occurred to me.  I have nieces and nephews of similar ages and that's entirely different.  I'd take them to the pub, of course.  Because i'm their auntie and that's a very different thing.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 2, 2013)

I


Buckaroo said:


> Just read thread again. Apologies. Took it wrong I think.


 I don't think anyone has told Marty21 to fuck off on here before the shock was almost palpable


----------



## tufty79 (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> *and what if the children and the teachers or Coaches and their respective families are all friends, are inter-related *, are all part of the same community and all use the same pubs and clubs?


They're from Norfolk?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2013)

snadge said:


> There's some right window bangers on here isn't there.


need i remind you this is urban?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> and what if the children and the teachers or Coaches and their respective families are all friends, are inter-related, are all part of the same community and all use the same pubs and clubs?


Then that would primarily make you a family friend.

Our head of Business studies has two daughters at the school.  If she wanted to take them to the pub, (pretty unikely as she's a strictly observant muslim, but hypothetically) that would be entirely fine because the fact of their familial relationship supercedes that of their parent-teacher relationship.  So in the example you give above, the 'family friend' status would also trump the teaching relationship.  But it's very unusual.  In my unusually extensive experience of UK schools, overwhelmingly staff do not habitually have the parents of significant numbers of the kids in their friendship circles, and in fact, for most teachers, that number would be nil.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I
> 
> I don't think anyone has told Marty21 to fuck off on here before the shock was almost palpable


I've been here a long time - everyone gets told to fuck off and it has happened before


----------



## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> and what if the children and the teachers or Coaches and their respective families are all friends, are inter-related, are all part of the same community and all use the same pubs and clubs?


this thread is about one teacher acting inappropriately with a school kid - if he had gone to the pub with loads of teachers/coaches/families - he wouldn't have acted inappropriately


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> and what if the children and the teachers or Coaches and their respective families are all friends, are inter-related, are all part of the same community and all use the same pubs and clubs?


That is a very different thing. How would you feel if one parent/teacher invited one 15 year old to the pub?


----------



## boohoo (Nov 2, 2013)

When you work with kids, you can chat to them, have a laugh and enjoy their company. But as Spangles said, there is a line - you don't invite them to the pub, you don't tell them where you live - regardless of how old they are. I did some youth work years ago and the kids were great but they were not my friends - it was important to understand that my relationship with them was an adult "guiding" children not an opportunity to make some new friends. 

Funnily enough the kids I worked with would be between 28 to 32 years old now.  *feels old*


----------



## white rabbit (Nov 2, 2013)

Mr Moose said:


> Yes it is. Even if it's played by coffin dodgers. Mick Jagger is still using it as a vehicle to lay his increasingly rattly frame on some younger flesh by all accounts.


I was reading in the Graun today that Jagger denied hitting on Katy Perry. You would, wouldn't you? Even Mick. Apparently, she "sacrificed" her friend. All heart, that woman.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 2, 2013)

marty21 said:


> this thread is about one teacher acting inappropriately with a school kid - if he had gone to the pub with loads of teachers/coaches/families - he wouldn't have acted inappropriately


Indeed. One of my friends at school was the daughter of one of our teachers. We went places with him as a group because we were all friends with his daughter but I think we'd have found it odd and decidedly dodgy if he had invited one of us to go anywhere with him on  our own


----------



## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Indeed. One of my friends at school was the daughter of one of our teachers. We went places with him as a group because we were all friends with his daughter but I think we'd have found it odd and decidedly dodgy if he had invited one of us to go anywhere with him on  our own


this sort of thing happened a lot when I was a teenager in the late 70s/early 80s, at my school,several teachers were involved with relationships with sixth form girls - while legal - it was dodgy then and it is dodgy now


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I
> 
> I don't think anyone has told Marty21 to fuck off on here before the shock was almost palpable


 
Really! ha, I'm gonna do it again just for kicks. Oi marty21 Fuck off ya cunt!


----------



## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Really! ha, I'm gonna do it again just for kicks. Oi marty21 Fuck off ya cunt!


you need to get out more


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

QueenOfGoths said:


> That is a very different thing. How would you feel if one parent/teacher invited one 15 year old to the pub?



Yes I know it's a very different thing. That's why I mentioned it. Not everybody lives in a city. My kids _rarely_ attend social/musical gatherings where teachers from their schools and/or adults from their sports teams are _not _present.

Re; one parent etc... I have no difficulty in recognising that there are very clearly many circumstances in which it would be entirely inappropriate. I am a little confused as to why some posters apparently cannot see circumstances in which it would be perfectly acceptable and indeed normal for adults to informally invite teens/kids collectively or individually to a music event held on licensed premises. 




LiamO said:


> I understand yer man's history is dodgy as fuck but it's not fair to generalise that any adult (or teacher for that matter) has ulterior motives when asking young people to come and see a gig or session.
> 
> I invite young teenagers (and children) to pubs all the time to listen to music. I've also taken groups of young teenagers abroad to perform at Folk festivals with 30,000 mostly drunk and stoned people at them.
> 
> Never tried to shag any of them though. Not even their mums.


----------



## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

marty21 said:


> this thread is about one teacher acting inappropriately with a school kid - if he had gone to the pub with loads of teachers/coaches/families - he wouldn't have acted inappropriately



this thread has meandered quite a bit tbf.


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## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

marty21 said:


> you need to get out more


 
Yeah you're right I should, been here almost one year, and you ten years is it?


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## marty21 (Nov 2, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Yeah you're right I should, been here almost one year, and you ten years is it?


well fuck off then x


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## Buckaroo (Nov 2, 2013)

marty21 said:


> well fuck off then x


 And you mate x


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## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

getta room ffs.

(assuming you are both consenting adults of course)


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## QueenOfGoths (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Yes I know it's a very different thing. That's why I mentioned it. Not everybody lives in a city. My kids _rarely_ attend social/musical gatherings where teachers from their schools and/or adults from their sports teams are _not _present.
> 
> Re; one parent etc... I have no difficulty in recognising that there are very clearly many circumstances in which it would be entirely inappropriate. I am a little confused as to why some posters apparently cannot see circumstances in which it would be perfectly acceptable and indeed normal for adults to informally invite teens/kids collectively or individually to a music event held on licensed premises.



I  don't live in a city, I was brought up in a small village and my father was a teacher. Of course I recognise that there are times when children would be gathering socially with teachers and other adults outside the school and in the general community. That was most of my childhood tbf.

But it is a very different thing for a group of people to get together for, Bonfire Night, say compared to an individual, or even a group, of young people to be invited somewhere socially by one adult.


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## Lemon Eddy (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> and what if the children and the teachers or Coaches and their respective families are all friends, are inter-related, are all part of the same community and all use the same pubs and clubs?



I would like to offer my congratulations on pointing out that it is possible to hypothesise a situation that is an exception to normal guidelines.  Good job!


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## LiamO (Nov 2, 2013)

Lemon Eddy said:


> I would like to offer my congratulations on pointing out that it is possible to hypothesise a situation that is an exception to normal guidelines.  Good job!



Why thank you, kind sir.

And I do apologise for pointing out that 'normality' is contextual.


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## Lemon Eddy (Nov 2, 2013)

LiamO said:


> And I do apologise for pointing out that 'normality' is contextual.



Except that isn't what you were trying to do, is it?  You were trying to dismiss Spanglechick's professional statement that " I am their teacher - not their friend. There MUST be boundaries, and not just for reasons of potential sexual misconduct. These are children. They have a right to unambiguous, delineated relationships" through the hypothesis of a very unusual circumstance.

Seriously, have a look at the stance you're debating against.   Generally, it is a bit questionable for a teacher in his 30's to invitee 15 year old pupils to a pub to see his band.  Do we really have to run through the exceptions to this?  What if the teacher is their uncle, their father, their long lost brother, or Jack Black trying to impress upon his straight laced wards that there's more to life than conformity.

Can we all just accept that, while there may well be exceptions to the rule, generally adults past 20 shouldn't be inviting young teens to a pub?


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## xenon (Nov 3, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Why thank you, kind sir.
> 
> And I do apologise for pointing out that 'normality' is contextual.



It's alright Liam, no one's called you a pedo. The feelings of inappropriateness regarding teachers asking 15 YO's to the pub came about as a result of the thing the thread's about. Not some yeah but what about if ZYZ. I'm sure you can see that and you're just being a bit whataboutery for the sake of an argument.

AKA stop trolling you tit.


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## dessiato (Nov 3, 2013)

I am a teacher. I do not invite any of my students to go to the bar with me. It would seem wrong. The only exception I will make is that staff at the hospital at which I work have invited me to their Xmas party. But, of course, they are all adults. I would not go to, nor invite to, any function where the students were teens. It is inappropriate at most, if not all, levels.

In this particular case the teacher crossed a line. Whilst it is arguable that, had he not been her teacher, they could have had a relationship (right or wrong), there is no way that this is acceptable. A teacher should always keep that professional line in place. Even if he had been a newly qualified teacher and she an 18 year old sixth former it would have been an unacceptable crossing of the professional line.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 3, 2013)

tufty79 said:


> They're from Norfolk?



Norfolk wouldn't have Liam. 

Sounds more like he's in some sort of cult.


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## tufty79 (Nov 3, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Norfolk wouldn't have Liam.
> 
> Sounds more like he's in some sort of cult.



yeah, 'radical routes' membership was second choice of explanation.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 3, 2013)

tufty79 said:


> yeah, 'radical routes' membership was second choice of explanation.



I was thinking more one of the slacker branches of Mormonism.  I think Radical Routes would be a bit too extreme a cult for Liam, especially as it's a personality cult where Liam would have to worship another man, rather than himself.


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## William of Walworth (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm astonished at all this recent chat on this thread.

Makes me feel very strongly relieved that all my pub chat has been with only marginally  younger people, ie people just about under 40 ...


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## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> I'm astonished at all this recent chat on this thread.
> 
> Makes me feel very strongly relieved that all my pub chat has been with only marginally  younger people, ie people just about under 40 ...


you don't talk to the bar staff then?


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## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Yeah you're right I should, been here almost one year, and you ten years is it?


marty21's experience gives the lie to the belief that there's any time off for good behaviour here


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## Buckaroo (Nov 3, 2013)

snadge said:


> There's some right window bangers on here isn't there.


 
What's a window banger?


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## Frances Lengel (Nov 3, 2013)

A cross between a window licker and a finger banger?


I do not condone the use of the term window licker.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 3, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> A cross between a window licker and a finger banger?
> 
> 
> I do not condone the use of the term window licker.


You just used it


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## Frances Lengel (Nov 3, 2013)

Well spotted.


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## tufty79 (Nov 3, 2013)

What's a 'finger banger'?


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## William of Walworth (Nov 3, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't talk to the bar staff then?


 

Only for ordering purposes, and as little as possible for that ...


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## emanymton (Nov 3, 2013)

tufty79 said:


> What's a 'finger banger'?


I wasn't sure I wanted to know, but googled anyway.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=finger banger


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## Buckaroo (Nov 3, 2013)

tufty79 said:


> What's a 'finger banger'?


 
tufty79 I just googled it so you don't have to. It's a bit rude. let's leave it that. Still not sure I understand and I got a bit of a shock but not as bad as when I heard the words wolf bagging. Do not google that.


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## emanymton (Nov 3, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> tufty79 I just googled it so you don't have to. It's a bit rude. let's leave it that. Still not sure I understand and I got a bit of a shock but not as bad as when I heard the words wolf bagging. Do not google that.


I just did 
that can't be real? And why bacon?


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## Orang Utan (Nov 3, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> tufty79 I just googled it so you don't have to. It's a bit rude. let's leave it that. Still not sure I understand and I got a bit of a shock but not as bad as when I heard the words wolf bagging. Do not google that.


Isn't wolfbagging having sex with a wolf? Inside a large bag?


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## Frances Lengel (Nov 3, 2013)

emanymton said:


> I just did
> that can't be real? And why bacon?



Whether it _was_ a thing is irrelevant - Someone, somewhere will have read about it and had a go. So it will be real now.

Dunno why it ha to be bacon though.


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## snadge (Nov 3, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> A cross between a window licker and a finger banger?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You've put your foot in it again, also you're totally wrong.


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## Frances Lengel (Nov 3, 2013)

snadge said:


> You've put your foot in it again, also you're totally wrong.



Up y'mam.


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## emanymton (Nov 3, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Isn't wolfbagging having sex with a wolf? Inside a large bag?


I almost wish it was.


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## Buckaroo (Nov 3, 2013)

snadge said:


> You've put your foot in it again, also you're totally wrong.


 
So what's a window banger then?


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## Corax (Nov 3, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> So what's a window banger then?


Someone who bangs on the window.

Imagine a bookies, or a bank or something.

Reading this thread, I'm starting to wonder if my French teacher strayed over professional boundaries tbh.  She used to allow me to come round to her flat and watch films and stuff.

Oh, and she sucked my cock sometimes too.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 3, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> So what's a window banger then?


a glazier's best friend

next


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## Buckaroo (Nov 3, 2013)




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## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 3, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> a glazier's best friend
> 
> next


*bangs on Perspex screen*


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 4, 2013)

Corax said:


> Someone who bangs on the window.
> 
> Imagine a bookies, or a bank or something.
> 
> ...



Did she spit or swallow?
If she spat, it doesn't count!


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## Mr Moose (Nov 5, 2013)

snadge said:


> There's some right window bangers on here isn't there.



Hmmm. So glad that's explained.


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## Mr Moose (Nov 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i was inviting 17, 18 and even 19 year olds to pubs when i was 18, 19, 20, and indeed 21 (although by that point the women in question were 18 and 19)



Irrelevant bollocks post of the month.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr Moose said:


> Irrelevant bollocks post of the month.


your post by contrast just bollocks and not worthy of any note


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