# New series of Doctor Who (2011)



## strung out (Mar 30, 2011)

trailer is going to be shown for the first time at 8pm tonight, but here it is if you can't catch it...



this series has got an episode written by neil gaiman! as well as the usual moffatt, gatiss, roberts etc offerings.

i know someone who's got copies of all the scripts, and from what he tells me, coupled with the trailer, it looks like it's going to be absolutely brilliant.

can't wait for this


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2011)

'coming soon' when?


----------



## 8115 (Mar 30, 2011)

Wooo.  I love Doctor Who.  I'm a bit bored of River Whats-her-name though.


----------



## strung out (Mar 30, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> 'coming soon' when?


 
easter saturday i've just been told. not officially confirmed though.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 30, 2011)

looking good 


http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a308147/bbc-confirms-doctor-who-premiere-date.html


----------



## Santino (Mar 30, 2011)

Looks good even without the sound on.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 30, 2011)

and a 2 minute preview of the first ep here 

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a311144/doctor-who-prequel-premieres-online.html


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 30, 2011)

Cheers for this inf all, love DW.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 30, 2011)

Arrgh! Have to wait!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 31, 2011)

looks cool. 

The theme tune remains ruined though.


----------



## Cloo (Mar 31, 2011)

Neil Gaiman episode! Neil Gaiman episode!!!!


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 1, 2011)

An exciting trailer and I'm looking forward to the new series,also hugely enjoying whovian reaction.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2011)

strung out said:


> tra
> 
> i know someone who's got copies of all the scripts, and from what he tells me, coupled with the trailer, it looks like it's going to be absolutely brilliant.
> )


 
They say that every time and its always shit.


----------



## strung out (Apr 1, 2011)

no it isn't


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 1, 2011)

James Corden is back; yay


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2011)

Eee-by-gum-by-gum indeed


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 1, 2011)

@ james cordon is back.....


----------



## strung out (Apr 1, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> James Corden is back; yay


 
i can't stand him, but he wasn't too bad in the last dr who episode he was in


----------



## dessiato (Apr 1, 2011)

FUCK!!!! 'Not available in your area' Looks like I'll have to download it when it is aired.


----------



## janeb (Apr 1, 2011)

Lots of info - episode by episode summary of what's around so far - leaving a gap as I can't remember how to do spoiler codes....although it's not really a spoiler tbh





















Anyway... Doctor WHO.... Here's what I've heard:

Episode One (part one of a two-parter): “The Impossible Astronaut”
Written by: Steven Moffat
Directed by: Toby Haynes

Guest starring: Mark Sheppard (Battlestar Galactica, Medium, Supernatural, Warehouse 13, and a zillion other genre shows) as Canton Everett Delaware III, Alex Kingston as River Song.

Other info: The episode originally had a more cheesy title according to this Tweet from Moffat: “Told my son the title of ep 1 of the next run of Dr Who. A pause. ‘I think we can do better, Daddy.’ Then: ‘We need clever. Not cheesy.’”
This story was filmed partly in Utah, where it is set. The Doctor wears as Stetson and grows a beard!

Episode Two (part two of a two-parter): “Day Of The Moon”
Written by: Steven Moffat
Directed by: Toby Haynes

Episode Three:

Written by: Steve Thompson
Directed by: Jeremy Webb

This is the episode with the pirates, partly shot in Charlestown in Cornwall.

Guest starring: Lee Ross will play a Boatswain; the actor played Kenny in Steven Moffat’s Press Gang in the ’80s and was DCI Litton in Ashes To Ashes. Hugh Bonneville (Downton Abbey) plays Pirate Captain Avery, and also appearing will be Annabel Cleare (and, briefly, her son, according to a Tweet by the actress). Oscar Lloyd (Emmerdale) will play Toby.

Actress and model Lily Cole will play a sea creature.

Episode Four: “The Doctor’s Wife”
Written by: Neil Gaiman
Directed by: Richard Clark

Other info: In a column for Doctor Who Magazine, Gaiman described Suranne Jones’s (Karen McDonald in Coronation Street) character as “someone who is beautiful, and who bites, and who might just turn out to be an old acquaintance with a new face…”, adding, “it starts in void-space, with something – or someone – we have not seen since [1969 Patrick Troughton story] ‘The War Games’, and a knock on the TARDIS door…”

Moffat has called it “a beautiful poem of an episode” and says that Suranne Jones “will change the way you see Doctor Who forever – and that’s a hand-on-heart promise.” Look out for exclusive details on this episode in SFX 209, on sale 5 May.

Guest starring: Besides Suranne Jones as Idris, expect Adrian Schiller (Being Human) and Elizabeth Berrington (Waterloo Road, Psychoville). Lauded actor Michael Sheen – who played Tony Blair in The Queen and Brian Clough in The Damned United – will voice a character.

Episode Five: “The Rebel Flesh” (part one of a two-parter):
Written by: Matthew Graham
Directed by: Julian Simpson
Guest starring: Marshall Lancaster (Buzzer), Sarah Smart (Jennifer Lucas), Raquel Cassidy and Mark Bonnar.

Episode Six: “Gangers” (part two of a two parter):
Written by: Matthew Graham
Directed by: Julian Simpson

Guest starring: Marshall Lancaster, Sarah Smart (Wallander, Casualty 1906), Leon Vickers (Being Victor) and Mark Bonnar (Casualty, The Bill).

Steven Moffat describes this two-part story as a “thrilling and terrifying two-parter. The Doctor will face a dilemma the like of which he’s never seen before.” It will apparently feature incomplete clones.

Episode Seven:
Written by: Steven Moffat
Directed by: Peter Hoar

Guest starring: Danny Sapani will play a character called Colonel Manton – the actor previously played probation officer Tony Morecombe in Misfits and was Oscar Danniels in The Bill. It will also feature Dan Johnston (Hotel Babylon) as “Thin Man” and Annabel Cleare.

Other info: It’s looking like the Cybermen and the Sontarans may be returning in this one, along with big blue guy Dorium Maldavar, last seen in “The Pandorica Opens”.


Spotlight said the title of this story was “Demons Run”, but Steven Moffat has said that it’s either “His Darkest Hour” or A Good Man Goes To War”. We watch and wait…


SUMMER HIATUS

Episode Eight:
Written by: Steven Moffat
Directed by:

Will resolve the mid-season cliffghanger.

Episode Nine:
Written by: Mark Gatiss
Directed by: Richard Clark

Guest starring: Daniel Mays (the villainous DCI Jim Keats from the final series of Ashes To Ashes), Emma Cunniffe (The Lakes) who play the parents of Harry, played by child actor Jamie Oram (info from The Doctor Who News Page), Andrew Tiernan (Survivors, 300), Leila Hoffman (Skins, How Not To Live Your Life) and Sophie Cosson.

Other info: Originally episode four, this has now shifted to the second half of the season. Mark Gatiss has said that for a title he’s been toying with “House Call” and “Night Terrors”. Gatiss also says that it was moved from the first half of the season because Steven Moffat felt the first half was too dark – this is set to one of the scariest and most sinister Who stories since its return. Gatiss reckons the monsters are “the creepiest things ever”. It’s set in a tower block and focuses on a little boy called George who is frightened of something in his cupboard…


Episode Ten:
Written by: Tom MacRae
Directed by: Nick Hurran TBC

Episode Eleven: “The God Complex”

Written by: Toby Whithouse
Directed by: Nick Hurran

Guest starring: Comedy king David Walliams is to play an alien character named Gibbis. The Little Britain and Come Fly With Me star said: “I am a huge fan of Doctor Who and am so looking forward to working with Matt Smith and running up and down some corridors with him.”

Other info: This was the script Toby Whithouse originally intended for the previous season but got bumped, with “The Vampires Of Venice” commissioned instead. “The God Complex” apparently features the Doctor and Amy trapped in a hotel where the geography keeps shifting – and is full of ventriloquists’ dummies and balloons… It’s set entirely in one location and will be one of the more nightmarish episodes. It was originally set to be episode ten, which thrilled Toby: “That was the ‘Blink’ and ‘Midnight’ slot! Now it’s been bumped to 11. Tom MacRae has the 10 slot, which I’m furious about!” he joked.

Episode Twelve:
Written by: Gareth Roberts
Directed by: Steve Hughes

Guest starring: James Corden – the rotund high-voiced funnyman will be reprising his role of Craig Owens from “The Lodger”. Also appearing will be Lynda Baron, famed for her role as Nurse Gladys in the Ronnie Barker sitcom Open All Hours; this will be the actress’s third appearance on the show, having previously been in Hartnell’s “The Gunfighters” and Davison’s “Enlightenment”.


Other info: Being filmed this March – scenes were recently shot at Howell’s Department Store in Cardiff.

Episode Thirteen:
Written by: Steven Moffat
Directed by: Richard Senior TBC


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2011)

8115 said:


> Wooo.  I love Doctor Who.  I'm a bit bored of River Whats-her-name though.


 
river phoenix


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> They say that every time and its always shit.


 
oh yeah? was Blink shit?


----------



## Santino (Apr 1, 2011)

All of the new series have had some good points, the occasional great moment and a bit of filler.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> All of the new series have had some good points, the occasional great moment and a bit of filler.


 
This. But I'll still watch every episode


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> oh yeah? was Blink shit?


 
The last series was awful and you know it.


----------



## strung out (Apr 1, 2011)

i think the last series was the best of the lot since it came back. this one looks better, but then i probably would say that.


----------



## Santino (Apr 1, 2011)

Amy was a bit annoying, but Rory guarding the Pandoricum for 2000 years was surprisingly touching, the moment the Doctor was put in there was awesome telly, the whole arc of the crack was quite well done. Overall it's about as much as you could ask. Doctor Who's never going to be The Wire.


----------



## strung out (Apr 1, 2011)

i'd be a bit worried if it was anything like the wire. as it is, it's still one of the most the most successful and longest running sci-fi shows ever.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2011)

spitfires

in

fucking

space

plus the Angels one, the appalling "most evil thing ever!" quote I can't precisely remember and am not going to look up.


----------



## strung out (Apr 1, 2011)

spitfires in space could have been good if it had just been expanded a bit better. that was the weakest episode of the last series though, i agree.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> Amy was a bit annoying, but Rory guarding the Pandoricum for 2000 years was surprisingly touching, the moment the Doctor was put in there was awesome telly, the whole arc of the crack was quite well done. Overall it's about as much as you could ask. Doctor Who's never going to be The Wire.


 
Amazingly enough they managed to fuck up the elements of Rory being around all that time (which I agree were good) by making the final episode the weakest ever. The whole fabric of space and time has been distorted irreconcilably, except for the fact that Amy is ginger or something.

If there had not been any good elements at all in the series I think I would have been a lot less annoyed - it would have been easier to ignore and just say "oh well it will get better next time".


----------



## Santino (Apr 1, 2011)

Just try to deny that the 'something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue' bit didn't give you a little thrill.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 1, 2011)

The urge to both vomit and hit the telly at the same time is ever so slightly thrilling I suppose.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 2, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> oh yeah? was Blink shit?


 
Blink was ok but not worth parping on about as much as people do. Yes it shines brighter than most of the other shite episodes. What did you think of blink II?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2011)

thats unfair


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Amazingly enough they managed to fuck up the elements of Rory being around all that time (which I agree were good) by making the final episode the weakest ever. The whole fabric of space and time has been distorted irreconcilably, except for the fact that Amy is ginger or something.
> 
> If there had not been any good elements at all in the series I think I would have been a lot less annoyed - it would have been easier to ignore and just say "oh well it will get better next time".


 
This


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> Just try to deny that the 'something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue' bit didn't give you a little thrill.


 
One good line does not make a great 45 minute story that ends an entire series arc with a reset button.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 2, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> James Corden is back; yay


 
This sentence does not even make sense.


----------



## strung out (Apr 2, 2011)

amy pond means i can forgive anything


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 2, 2011)

Its better than homes under the hammer but I wouldn't weep into my pillow if I missed an episode. 
As a kid I used to get physically sick waiting for a new episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2011)

that explains a lot tbf


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> Amy was a bit annoying, but Rory guarding the Pandoricum for 2000 years was surprisingly touching, the moment the Doctor was put in there was awesome telly, the whole arc of the crack was quite well done. Overall it's about as much as you could ask. Doctor Who's never going to be The Wire.


 
Gangsta hoo....yes i would probably watch that and all.....still waiting for the wu-tang episode..can anyone else hear a tardis>


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The last series was awful and you know it.


 
I liked it.  Anyway nothing could be more awful than that dreadful absorbstron thingy episode.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 2, 2011)

The last series wasn't quite as good as the two before, but still great.  I liked the vampires and the one with the whales.  Vincent Van Gough was good.


----------



## magneze (Apr 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> trailer is going to be shown for the first time at 8pm tonight, but here it is if you can't catch it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks great!


----------



## binka (Apr 3, 2011)

the last series was the best since it came back, matt smith is a better doctor than the other two, amy pond is less awful than billie piper and that other one and no single episode could ever be as bad as that one with peter kay. 

also thought the finale was fairly decent, yes i suppose it was a reset switch but its still better than previous series finales - the one where billie piper becomes god and fixes everything, the one where they reverse the polarity and all the bad guys go back through the hole in space or the one where everyone on earth thinks really hard and the doctor gets better


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 3, 2011)

over the years i have come to love Atomic Suplex's posts in the tv forum. his hate  makes me smile


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2011)

binka said:


> the last series was the best since it came back, matt smith is a better doctor than the other two, amy pond is less awful than billie piper and that other one and no single episode could ever be as bad as that one with peter kay.
> 
> also thought the finale was fairly decent, yes i suppose it was a reset switch but its still better than previous series finales - the one where billie piper becomes god and fixes everything, the one where they reverse the polarity and all the bad guys go back through the hole in space or the one where everyone on earth thinks really hard and the doctor gets better


 
The above post contains so much wrongness that it threatens to collapse in on itself, sucking the entire board in with it and also everything ginger in the universe. Even if lots of the previous season finales were indeed poohsticks.


----------



## strung out (Apr 3, 2011)

i agree with most of it. and what i say, goes.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2011)

I'll fight you.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Apr 3, 2011)

Lily Cole as a sea monster looks good.  Looking forward to this.  I got really bored with David Tennant's Doctor, liking Matt Smith's version more.


----------



## strung out (Apr 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'll fight you.


 
bring it


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 3, 2011)

8115 said:


> The last series wasn't quite as good as the two before, but still great.  I liked the vampires and the one with the whales.  Vincent Van Gough was good.


 
Those were the worst ones werent they? Maybe it was all shit and I was just distracted by pond.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 3, 2011)

binka said:


> also thought the finale was fairly decent, yes i suppose it was a reset switch but its still better than previous series finales - the one where billie piper becomes god and fixes everything, the one where they reverse the polarity and all the bad guys go back through the hole in space or the one where everyone on earth thinks really hard and the doctor gets better


 
Being a little less shit than the utter shit that has come before does not equal `decent`. Thats like saying Thatcher was pretty good because Camaron is such an utter cunt.


----------



## strung out (Apr 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Those were the worst ones werent they? Maybe it was all shit and I was just distracted by pond.


 
the van gogh one was my favourite


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 3, 2011)

strung out said:


> the van gogh one was my favourite


 that one was quite sad.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 3, 2011)

I didn't enjoy the last series as much as the others since it returned although, perversely, I like Matt Smith a lot more than I ever did David Tennant. I've never warmed to either Amy Pond or Rory.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 3, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> . I've never warmed to either Amy Pond.. .








I think she's hot, but I'm twice her age.

Looking forward to the new series, thought the last one was good, loved the humour, football, van gogh.  Hated Corden, never mind.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 3, 2011)

I suppose she's hot (rather too pale for my tastes) but she isn't a terribly good actress. Her character's constant 'feistiness' really grates after a while.


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 3, 2011)

rory is a cunt. more so than mickey.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> I suppose she's hot (rather too pale for my tastes) but she isn't a terribly good actress. Her character's constant 'feistiness' really grates after a while.


 
you prefer your women obedient and silent then eh?


----------



## strung out (Apr 3, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> rory is a cunt. more so than mickey.


 
fuck right off


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 3, 2011)

Last series was better cos it didn't freature the increasingly annoying tennant and RTD wasn't involved. 
The stories are as hit and miss as ever but Matt Smith and Karen Gillian work very well together.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Well, if you prefer the Doctor as a clownish idiot who occasionally EMOTES, rather than an alien genius who appears eccentric due to his separation from humanity, possibly.

It's not Smith's fault mind, he's just playing to the increasing direction of the scripts.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 3, 2011)

Dr Who is for both children and adults, it generally makes a good balance.  When it doesn't make that balance it annoys the adults or the kids (but less the kids). 

I try to watch it with one of my kids or grand-kids, seeing it almost through both sets of eyes.  As you do with your kids and grand-kids.

I think it's good.  The ones I find best...Blink, van Gogh and others...teh young ones don't generally like, they like others that I'm a bit meh about.


----------



## strung out (Apr 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, if you prefer the Doctor as a clownish idiot who occasionally EMOTES, rather than an alien genius who appears eccentric due to his separation from humanity, possibly.
> 
> It's not Smith's fault mind, he's just playing to the increasing direction of the scripts.


 
the doctor's always been a clownish idiot who pulls funny faces though, patrick troughton and tom baker particularly. i really don't agree that he's playing like that because of the scripts either. he's acted like an old man despite being the youngest actor to play the doctor, and i think he's absolutely put his own stamp on the role as opposed to taking the cues from the writers.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2011)

There's always been an "eccentric" element, but it was, generally, also not just taken for granted that the Doctor was also a genius and, well, an adult. Stories contained identifiable displays of intelligence - coming up with solutions, solving problems, not just waving the screwdriver or other completely unjustifiable deus ex arse. This definitely happened in the early "revival" series, which was one of the reasons they were good.

They also, depending on the series, had moral quandaries and details based on unique aspects of the Doctor's history and character coming up. This series, that seems to be limited to River Song being a time-travelling nutcase ex (or pre or whatever who gives a shit), and occasionally he shouts about how something is SO AWFUL THAT HE'S JUST GOING TO GO AGAINST THE LAWS OF UNIVERSE GRRR. It's Beano characterisation.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 3, 2011)

Like The Hulk!


----------



## dessiato (Apr 3, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> I think she's hot, but I'm twice her age.
> 
> Looking forward to the new series, thought the last one was good, loved the humour, football, van gogh.  Hated Corden, never mind.



She is so utterly beautiful.

<snipped - FM>


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 3, 2011)

Maybe we could do without the porn photoshops eh?


----------



## Santino (Apr 3, 2011)

lol


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2011)

oh, its all 'we' when I am denied a photoshopped thrill. This is like the fire at the reichstag


----------



## dessiato (Apr 3, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> oh, its all 'we' when I am denied a photoshopped thrill. This is like the fire at the reichstag


 
One of the snipped pics was actually a pic of her on the bed in, IIRC, the episode she tries to seduce The Doctor. The other, well it was a photohopped pic without a doubt, and snipping it is a reasonable response.


----------



## strung out (Apr 4, 2011)

press launch for the new series tomorrow night, so there will be spoilers galore after that. they're going to be showing the first two episodes, but i've told my bro not to tell me a thing about it!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 4, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> rory is a cunt. more so than mickey.


 
I thought Rory was quite good an maybe even underused.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 4, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> you prefer your women obedient and silent then eh?


 
Hardly. I just have an aversion to poorly-acted, badly-written one-note characters.


----------



## strung out (Apr 4, 2011)

press pic from the first episode...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 4, 2011)

Now I hate it even more.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 4, 2011)

I like how they didn't really have an accessory for Amy so she just appears to be doing some kind of bemused hoedown.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2011)

rory not in his Roman gear?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 5, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> rory not in his Roman gear?


 
Dont you remember, they hit the reset switch and nothing ever happened. They only 'magicly' remember some stuff. Magic, deux ex, and resets are the new doctor who staples.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2011)

I shall miss the hard hitting realism of old Who.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 5, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I shall miss the hard hitting realism of old Who.


 
Did I say old who had hard hitting realism? Also, who expects realism in sci fi? And who expects anything hard hitting in a childrens programme? Shit writing is shit in any genre.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 6, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> I like how they didn't really have an accessory for Amy so she just appears to be doing some kind of bemused hoedown.


 Something on her right arm?


----------



## strung out (Apr 6, 2011)

they've all got marks on their arms and hands if you look closely...


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 6, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Did I say old who had hard hitting realism? Also, who expects realism in sci fi? And who expects anything hard hitting in a childrens programme? Shit writing is shit in any genre.


 
But you still watch it, right?


----------



## holteman (Apr 6, 2011)

I still want to nail River.......


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> But you still watch it, right?


 
Yeah, but I have also seen homes under the hammer and watched a whole cash in the attic on more than on occasion.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Apr 7, 2011)

and somebody dies this year?????


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

I hope its dr who


----------



## strung out (Apr 7, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> and somebody dies this year?????


 
the tagline for the first episode is 'one must die'.

obviously, no-one will, because they're all credited in the episodes later in the series.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

Maybe thats their lame story arc for this season, and we get a load of unrealted episodes with "one must die" appearing in the last 5 seconds of every episode as a weak link / thread.


----------



## strung out (Apr 7, 2011)

i hope you don't keep this up for the whole series


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

That depends, maybe the series will be brilliant and I wont have to.


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 7, 2011)

Come on now, the tv forum is nothing without AS being hateful of all programs...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

Hummpf


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 7, 2011)

I actually look forward to threads on the ending of bsg


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

Grrrr, writers. I only get my knickers in a twist when there is or was potential but the writers get sloppy and lazy. I dont give a fuck if desparate housewives jumps the shark or homes under the hammer ends the series with a disapointing link.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 7, 2011)

Spoiler: Spoilers



http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/news/bulletin_110405_01/The_Revolution_Begins



as River would say....


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 7, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Grrrr, writers. I only get my knickers in a twist when there is or was potential but the writers get sloppy and lazy. I dont give a fuck if desparate housewives jumps the shark or homes under the hammer ends the series with a disapointing link.


 I liked the ending of BSG...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> I liked the ending of BSG...


 
Its not so much the end as how they didnt have a clue how to untie all the knotts they had created. Also it was a shit end. Hey, lets just stay here and for no real reason decide to put every single last bit of technology in a space ship and drive it into the sun. Why the fuck would anyone do that??? apart from to hide the fact that in real life BSG didnt happen. Shit writing. They could have just said there was a secret society they hid the truth or they could have said nothing and maybe impled that a lot of our new inventions just came from leaked BSG technology. No, instead they drove everything into the sun.


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 7, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Its not so much the end as how they didnt have a clue how to untie all the knotts they had created. Also it was a shit end. Hey, lets just stay here and for no real reason decide to put every single last bit of technology in a space ship and drive it into the sun. Why the fuck would anyone do that??? apart from to hide the fact that in real life BSG didnt happen. Shit writing. They could have just said there was a secret society they hid the truth or they could have said nothing and maybe impled that a lot of our new inventions just came from leaked BSG technology. No, instead they drove everything into the sun.



I bet Doctor Who wangs some stuff in tot he sun in this series, for similar reasons.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

See i think Dr Who handles the stuff about why we dont know about Dr who in real life in the right way. Its the same reason I dont see godzilla in downtown tokyo, its because it is a STORY. Its fantacy. 

Fuck you BSG


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> press pic from the first episode...


 
Why is Rory dressed as an american tourist, he's not fat enough? 




ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Its not so much the end as how they didnt have a clue how to untie all the knotts they had created. Also it was a shit end. Hey, lets just stay here and for no real reason decide to put every single last bit of technology in a space ship and drive it into the sun. Why the fuck would anyone do that??? apart from to hide the fact that in real life BSG didnt happen. Shit writing. They could have just said there was a secret society they hid the truth or they could have said nothing and maybe impled that a lot of our new inventions just came from leaked BSG technology. No, instead they drove everything into the sun.


 
You're a Cylon, and so is yer mum.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2011)

The Cylons seemed nice. Well that grace park one did anyway. I assume she started the entire easten race.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 7, 2011)

You're a grumpy old bastard, Suplex


----------



## MikeMcc (Apr 8, 2011)

Nah, he's not.  The last series was pretty poor and the special with the airborne shark was utter, utter crap! I hated it with a vengence, it was schmaltzy, a platform for the opera singer, the script didn't make any sense, and the acting was rubbish, no one in the cast seemed to be interested in it.  It seemed that it was made just to fill the schedule rather than be a good story.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 8, 2011)

it wasn't a good stopry  but  the doctor played his charactor well

thats what i'm happy about.  he feels doctor-ish  

i can forgiver the series doing dubious story lines  if the spirit feels right  and i think for the last season the spirit did feel right  although it wavered in places     with the big story arc set pieces  feeling like a distinct hang over from   the rtd days

i'd like  doctor who to move back to  an old style  with  each story spanning multiple episodes. it would  give  more chance for each individual story to   be more fleshed out.  i'm not sure if tha\t will happen  but  more  self contained two parters wuld be good at least

so far i'd rate the last season  as one of the better ones of new who.  

i'd want to go back and  compare against tenant...  because thinging about it  a lot of  his episodes kinda sucked  as well


----------



## strung out (Apr 8, 2011)

MikeMcc said:


> Nah, he's not.


 
is


----------



## Balbi (Apr 21, 2011)

bump


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 21, 2011)

if the spoilers ive read are correct the first ep could well be wicked


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 21, 2011)

Arrrgh I fucking hate waiting!!!! 

*hops about like a 4 year old*


----------



## strung out (Apr 21, 2011)

this is going to be ace!


----------



## fogbat (Apr 21, 2011)

Looking forward to it...


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 21, 2011)

[video]http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gj9jm[/video]


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 21, 2011)

and then.....


----------



## Saffy (Apr 21, 2011)

So excited about this, I took my children to the Doctor Who experience today. It was brilliant!


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 22, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> [video]http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00gj9jm[/video]


 


AverageJoe said:


> and then.....


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 22, 2011)

No idea what they mean, stuff_it, but they only went up last night. There must be something hidden in the images, but who knows....thats part of the joy of Dr Who!


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 23, 2011)

SPOILER!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/news/bulletin_110423_01/Unmissable_The_Next_24_Hours


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2011)

Very soon.


----------



## strung out (Apr 23, 2011)

just a quick heads up, there's a 15 minute tribute to lis sladen on CBBC (freeview channel 70) straight after the show finishes tonight.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2011)

Projector on, screen set up, self downstairs in T minus 30 seconds


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 23, 2011)

here we go....


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (Apr 23, 2011)

Plus point: Amy Pond is back on my telly 
Downside: So is River Song


----------



## magneze (Apr 23, 2011)

x 1,000,000


----------



## Balbi (Apr 23, 2011)

Interesting.


----------



## magneze (Apr 23, 2011)

Hooks you in from the first episode. Lots of wtf in a good way.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 23, 2011)

Nice, I enjoyed that, I wonder if the whole saving dr thing will end up being the series arc... 

The silence are pretty scary fukkers , and im 40 lol


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2011)

the eldest child hid under a blanket whenever the baddies appeared, in the traditional style. so i guess it's a success, although i felt it was a bit unfocussed myself. hopefully it'll all come together next week.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 23, 2011)

The Easter Island gag was priceless.


----------



## editor (Apr 23, 2011)

Great start to the new series. That was a very intriguing episode.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 23, 2011)

and nice to see an actor from BSG in it too


----------



## magneze (Apr 23, 2011)

I did wonder if it was the Dr in the spacesuit, but it's not really clear why he'd kill himself.

Couple of other things there:
Isn't this in theory the last doctor? 13 regenerations and no more? So the fact that the Dr is proper dead would appear to close that mystery ... but ... didn't he start to regenerate before being shot again?

*boggles*


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 23, 2011)

River said he died in the middle of a regenerative cycle and something along the lines that he was shot again before he could change , therefore that's why he is proper dead n ting


----------



## scifisam (Apr 23, 2011)

I found that really confusing. 



magneze said:


> I did wonder if it was the Dr in the spacesuit, but it's not really clear why he'd kill himself.
> 
> Couple of other things there:
> Isn't this in theory the last doctor? 13 regenerations and no more? So the fact that the Dr is proper dead would appear to close that mystery ... but ... didn't he start to regenerate before being shot again?
> ...


 
He's the 11th doctor. But they'd find a way around it if they needed to.


----------



## 8den (Apr 23, 2011)

Too incoherent and weird, I'm getting sick of Moffat's "The doctor is a wizard" shtick...



Oh Christ _that was badger from Firefly..._


----------



## scifisam (Apr 23, 2011)

8den said:


> Too incoherent and weird, I'm getting sick of Moffat's "The doctor is a wizard" shtick...
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Christ _that was badger from Firefly..._



He has now been in practically every show I regularly watch. We still call him Badger in our house though.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Apr 23, 2011)

they have already gotten over of the fixed number of regens.  it was covered in the last SJA series.


----------



## 8den (Apr 23, 2011)

scifisam said:


> He has now been in practically every show I regularly watch. We still call him Badger in our house though.


 
Checking out Mark Sheppard's IMDB chart is impressive, I can't believe he was in, "In the Name of the Father."


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2011)

scifisam said:


> He has now been in practically every show I regularly watch. We still call him Badger in our house though.


Who was he?


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2011)

the fbi dude.


----------



## magneze (Apr 23, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I found that really confusing.
> 
> 
> 
> He's the 11th doctor. But they'd find a way around it if they needed to.


Oh yes. 

*attempts to learn counting again*


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2011)

killer b said:


> the fbi dude.


I didn't know him.  But he reminded me slightly of Craig Revel Horwood, for some reason.


----------



## Epona (Apr 23, 2011)

I liked that episode, can't wait 'til the next one!


----------



## spirals (Apr 23, 2011)

I enjoyed that episode, hopefully this series will be even better than the last one.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 23, 2011)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The Easter Island gag was priceless.


 
Made me laugh


----------



## janeb (Apr 24, 2011)

Loved it, currently drawing a diagram to help work out the RS/DrW timeline


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 24, 2011)

fogbat said:


> Made me laugh


 
didn't get it.


----------



## janeb (Apr 24, 2011)

Matt smith does, at certain angles, bear a passing resemblance to an Easter island statue, esp the forehead / chin combo


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2011)

Great opening episode,for me one of the best so far maybe because it has a flavour of old school Who memories.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 24, 2011)

janeb said:


> Matt smith does, at certain angles, bear a passing resemblance to an Easter island statue, esp the forehead / chin combo


 
ohh... is that it?


----------



## Quartz (Apr 24, 2011)

Maybe it's the early hour but this episode didn't click with me and I turned it off shortly after they got to the Tardis.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 24, 2011)

Really enjoyed it, laughed outloud at certain bits, thought it set up the next episode perfectly, confirmed in my mind that I would very much like to be River Song. Plus I squealed with delight at seeing Dr. Who in a Laurel and Hardy film


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Apr 24, 2011)

Proper awesome. I saw a mildly disappointing rendition of Hamlet (Good in bits is not enough) that day too, so was hoping it wouldn't suck. 

I want Matt Smith's babies.
Oh and what do people make of this dialogue between Canton and Amy?

"I wanted to get married." 
"That's not illegal, is it?"
"Yes, it is."

Hmmmm, Gay, or adulterer?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2011)

Poo, I missed it. Is it on again today?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2011)

feedmeastraycat said:


> "I wanted to get married."
> "That's not illegal, is it?"
> "Yes, it is."
> 
> Hmmmm, Gay, or adulterer?


 
I don't think gay marriage is 'illegal'


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 24, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't think gay marriage is 'illegal'


 
This was in 1969 USA so at that time I think it probably was


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Apr 24, 2011)

We're talking 1969.


----------



## Termite Man (Apr 24, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't think gay marriage is 'illegal'


 
it was in 1969

I liked that episode, it had a decent pace to it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> and nice to see an actor from BSG in it too


 
Please say it was Grace Park and not one of those english dorks.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 24, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Please say it was Grace Park and not one of those english dorks.


 
It was an English dork, I'm afraid, Mark Sheppard who played then lawyer Romo Lampkin in BSG. Wasn't quite convinced by his Americam accent but he was ok. Better in BSG but then he didn't have a huge amount to do in last night's episode so I am being ultra-crictical!


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 24, 2011)

8den said:


> Checking out Mark Sheppard's IMDB chart is impressive, I can't believe he was in, "In the Name of the Father."


 
And it was Mark Sheppard's real-life dad playing the older version of the FBI character at the beginning.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2011)

So when is it on again?


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 24, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> It was an English dork, I'm afraid, *Mark Sheppard who played then lawyer Romo Lampkin in BSG*. Wasn't quite convinced by his Americam accent but he was ok. Better in BSG but then he didn't have a huge amount to do in last night's episode so I am being ultra-crictical!


 
Also played Badger in Firefly! Which I'd just watched yesterday, oddly enough. What a fantastic episode; funny and creepy and look at that big budget!


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 24, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> And it was Mark Sheppard's real-life dad playing the older version of the FBI character at the beginning.


 
Different spelling; older version spelt Shepherd...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2011)

Oh I've met him at a firefly convention. Didn't recognize him last night, or then. It's a long and crap story as to how I came to be at a firefly convention when I don't even rate the program.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 24, 2011)

Really liked the episode. Properly scary monsters, loads of unanswered questions, some good lines, a bit of perving at Alex Kingston.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 24, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Different spelling; older version spelt Shepherd...


 
That may be so but it was still his dad - said so on DW Confidential.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 24, 2011)

feedmeastraycat said:


> Proper awesome. I saw a mildly disappointing rendition of Hamlet (Good in bits is not enough) that day too, so was hoping it wouldn't suck.
> 
> I want Matt Smith's babies.
> Oh and what do people make of this dialogue between Canton and Amy?
> ...


 
Either gay or he wanted to marry someone of a different race and the researchers got their dates wrong regarding anti-miscegenation laws (they were struck down in the US in 1967).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh I've met him at a firefly convention. Didn't recognize him last night, or then. It's a long and crap story as to how I came to be at a *firefly conventio*n when I don't even rate the program.


 
Good lord.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 24, 2011)

scifisam said:


> Either gay or he wanted to marry someone of a different race and the researchers got their dates wrong regarding anti-miscegenation laws (they were struck down in the US in 1967).


 
or an alien. maybe his 'attitude problem' manifested post a stint at roswell, or something.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 24, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> or an alien. maybe his 'attitude problem' manifested post a stint at roswell, or something.


 
Could be. Eurgh.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 24, 2011)

scifisam said:


> Either gay or he wanted to marry someone of a different race and the researchers got their dates wrong regarding anti-miscegenation laws (they were struck down in the US in 1967).


 Did they say if he was kicked out in 1969. The fbi may have held a grudge after the law changed. Good episode. Hopefully Will escape the curse of poor conclusions we've suffered since 2005.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Good lord.


 
free tickets, free transport, beer.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 24, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> free tickets, free transport, *beer*.



Was that free too? If not I'd rather be at home. Actually free beer would be canceled out by hanging around a load of the sort of people who pay to go to a firefly convention. At least it wasn't babylon 5 I suppose.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 24, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> It was an English dork, I'm afraid, Mark Sheppard who played then lawyer Romo Lampkin in BSG. Wasn't quite convinced by his Americam accent but he was ok. Better in BSG but then he didn't have a huge amount to do in last night's episode so I am being ultra-crictical!


 
He's quite good as Crowley the demon in series 5 and 6 of "Supernatural".

He was shite as an FBI agent in "Dollhouse", though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 24, 2011)

scifisam said:


> Either gay or he wanted to marry someone of a different race and the researchers got their dates wrong regarding anti-miscegenation laws (they were struck down in the US in 1967).


 
FBI agents at the time required Bureau permission to marry, and J. Edgar Hoover was deeply racist, and deeply pro-prevention of "miscegenation".


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2011)

and he wore womens knickers


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 24, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> and he wore womens knickers


 
Not when his boyfriend was fucking him, he didn't, the hypocritical old cunt.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 24, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> ohh... is that it?


 
Charlie Brooker once described Smith's Doctor as "Like A Friendly Easter Island Statue with a Bow Tie"


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 24, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> He's quite good as Crowley the demon in series 5 and 6 of "Supernatural".
> 
> He was shite as an FBI agent in "Dollhouse", though.


 
Think he popped up in Bionic Woman the other year, too. That had promise, especially that Starbuck was in it too...


----------



## strung out (Apr 24, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> FBI agents at the time required Bureau permission to marry, and J. Edgar Hoover was deeply racist, and deeply pro-prevention of "miscegenation".


 
true. canton isn't an FBI agent though. he's ex-FBI


----------



## 8115 (Apr 24, 2011)

That was ok.  I don't like two parters.  It didn't feel like it ever really got off the ground.



Spoiler: stuff



It was scary how they forgot the aliens every time they turned away


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 24, 2011)

That was great, really enjoyed it. Loads of stuff to build on for the series...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 24, 2011)

ok just a thought , a connection between series 4 ' Silence in the libray ' and ' The Impossible Astronaught '  perhaps ? River's Death , a link to the moon , a space suit, ' The slience ' and finally written by Stephen Moffat , god knows what it could be but we all know how much Stephen Moffat likes linking things up.....

what do you peeps think..?


----------



## Santino (Apr 24, 2011)

Silence will fall


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 24, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Poo, I missed it. Is it on again today?


 iPlayer. 


8115 said:


> That was ok.  I don't like two parters.


Oh, I do! 

I thought that episode was great! I can't wait for next week's.  I love it when it's not clear what's going on; so Dr Who!


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

i've got to say, next weekend's episode is an absolute belter. bit of a headfuck though.


----------



## claphamboy (Apr 25, 2011)

Only got around to watching it late night and we loved it, forgetting the aliens every time anyone looks away was well creepy, took a while to work out WTF was going on there, as with much of everything else, although our excuse was that we were somewhat pissed at the time.

Just about to watch it again to see which bits should make sense and which bits are designed to be a mystery.


----------



## janeb (Apr 25, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> ok just a thought , a connection between series 4 ' Silence in the libray ' and ' The Impossible Astronaught '  perhaps ? River's Death , a link to the moon , a space suit and finally written by Stephen Moffat , god knows what it could be but we all know how much Stephen Moffat likes linking things up.....
> 
> what do you peeps think..?



I agree, have been pondering it since Saturday esp as that is the point the dr doesnt remember her at all  - now she does then die, but i wouldnt say that its the not remembering that kills her, although maybe that makes her more likely to sacrifice herself, which she then does.  

Am going back to watch the library episodes later as I don't remember the detail too well.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

a lot of this stuff is going to continue through the whole season i think, so don't expect _everything_ to be wrapped up on saturday


----------



## killer b (Apr 25, 2011)

Series.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

doctor who has always been seasons, so there


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> doctor who has always been seasons, so there


 Yes yes of course it has and still is . . . . 





Oh no wait.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

i was talking about from when it first started. there's some debate, with some people calling the current bunch of shows season 32, some calling it series 6, some calling it series 2. as it is, i feel quite justified calling it a season as opposed to a series. both are correct.


----------



## claphamboy (Apr 25, 2011)

OK, re-watched it sober, still totally confused. 

Great start to a new season of a new series.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 25, 2011)

Enjoyable, but not as good as that recent special where he went back to 1930's Berlin and bummed W H Auden.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> i was talking about from when it first started. there's some debate, with some people calling the current bunch of shows season 32, some calling it series 6, some calling it series 2. as it is, i feel quite justified calling it a season as opposed to a series. both are correct.


 
Well I do know that the old who is often referred to as seasons because they have several stories running though them, and I can see why it might make sense, but they were not called 'seasons' at the time. You can check all the continuity and radio times blurb, there is plenty of it about. Nobody ever says 'the new season of Dr who starts this saturday' or 'so peter, what have we got to look forward to in this new season of dr who?' .They quite clearly call the new Who a series, which is what it is. We aren't in the sodding US where every show starts in seasons. These are serials.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 25, 2011)

Santino said:


> Silence will fall



These geezers are who everyone's been running from, right? The vampires of Venice had fled the silence.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Well I do know that the old who is often referred to as seasons because they have several stories running though them, and I can see why it might make sense, but they were not called 'seasons' at the time. You can check all the continuity and radio times blurb, there is plenty of it about. Nobody ever says 'the new season of Dr who starts this saturday' or 'so peter, what have we got to look forward to in this new season of dr who?' .They quite clearly call the new Who a series, which is what it is. We aren't in the sodding US where every show starts in seasons. These are serials.


 
why do you think it makes more sense that way? they've been called seasons for as long as i've been a fan and by most other doctor who fans i know. it's not some yank word, because doctor who has been using it for absolutely years.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> why do you think it makes more sense that way? they've been called seasons for as long as i've been a fan and by most other doctor who fans i know. it's not some yank word, because doctor who has been using it for absolutely years.


 
I have never ever heard until recently anyone to refer to old who as a season. The new series are quite clearly a 'series' and referred to as such. Just because you and your chums want to call it something else doesn't make it right.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

it's been called seasons for absolutely years. definitely when the show was still being produced in the 80s. some people carry on referring to the current show as season 28, 29, 30 etc and it's just as correct as those who want to call it series 6 (or season 2 as the BBC are doing with their production codes)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's been called seasons for absolutely years. definitely when the show was still being produced in the 80s. some people carry on referring to the current show as season 28, 29, 30 etc and it's just as correct as those who want to call it series 6 (or season 2 as the BBC are doing with their production codes)


 
No it wasn't, find me one official example of it being called a season at the time. There is plenty of continuity calling it the 'new series' or 'current series'. 
It's most definitely called a 'series' now, it's all over the boxes for FFS. 
You and any number of people can call it the 'new derick' for all I care, doesn't make it right, and stinks of yanky sci-fi fanboy.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 25, 2011)

Series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series series


----------



## Santino (Apr 25, 2011)




----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 25, 2011)

Yum yum, these words are tasty.


New ones called a 'series' though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2011)

If we can move past this vitally important point for a moment I would like to mention that I think Amy Pond is very good looking and I would like to do her the service of buying a lunch that we could share. I'll even listen to her bang on about aberdeen or whichever blasted wasteland she springs from.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 25, 2011)

Mind you that's an american publishing house.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 25, 2011)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The Easter Island gag was priceless.


 
A blatant nod to one reviewer's description of Matt Smith as "A friendly Easter Island head with a bow tie."


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Mind you that's an american publishing house.


 
produced in tunbridge wells


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

Santino said:


>


 
my dad bought that magazine from the very first issue. gone right downhill now though...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 25, 2011)

What I want to know is why these mouthless alien fucks are all dressed like David Tennant's Doctor in a "skinny suit and tie" manner.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 25, 2011)

Surely a series is the whole thing - Doctor Who is a series, which is made up of lots of individual seasons. I know it's an Americanism but it makes more sense than the way we do it in the UK where a series means both the whole thing _and_ the individual seasons.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 25, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> What I want to know is why these mouthless alien fucks are all dressed like David Tennant's Doctor in a "skinny suit and tie" manner.


 
Moffat's design for the Silence started with _The Scream_, which depicts a chap tormented by shame over his shabby but close-fitting black clothes.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 25, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> What I want to know is why these mouthless alien fucks are all dressed like David Tennant's Doctor in a "skinny suit and tie" manner.


 
ugh, ugh - No!

Tennnt's costume was sort of thirties elongation - and importantly browns and blues. The silent are wearing black, early sixties-cut suits and ties... rather like the rat pack.






imagery also evocative of Agent smith






and the men in black


----------



## Belushi (Apr 25, 2011)

Yeah, its Men in Black isnt it.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

this is shaping up to be a completely mental season i reckon. can't believe we've got a break in the middle of it though


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 25, 2011)

Belushi said:


> Yeah, its Men in Black isnt it.


 
Also these lot nowdays...


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> produced in tunbridge wells


Which, I'm sorry, might as well be in America.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

and fwiw, i just checked and they were using 'season' on the show way back in the 60s before that magazine was even a glint in marvel's eye. basically, the terms 'season' and 'series' are interchangeable, with 'season' being the one favoured by doctor who creators back in the 60s (though' series' is the one in fashion at the moment, obviously)


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> this is shaping up to be a completely mental season i reckon. can't believe we've got a break in the middle of it though


 
A break? When and why? How many episodes in this series?


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

there's going to be a break between the 7th and 8th episodes of a few months. 13 episodes in total, with the 7th broadcast at the start of june and 8th broadcast in september sometime.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 25, 2011)

Good, it'll last longer.


----------



## strung out (Apr 25, 2011)

christmas special too of course. they're only finishing filming the final episode of the series this week though!


----------



## Pingu (Apr 26, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I hope its dr who


 
do do doo doo do do doo doo

liked that one. reminded me of some of the much older Whos


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 26, 2011)

And it was who.


----------



## hektik (Apr 26, 2011)

janeb said:


> Loved it, currently drawing a diagram to help work out the RS/DrW timeline


 
not a diagram, but here you go:

http://www.thedoctorwhosite.co.uk/features/river-songs-diary/


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2011)




----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2011)

hewitt looks like arnold rimmer there...


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 29, 2011)

killer b said:


> hewitt looks like arnold rimmer there...


 
My first genuine lol of the day!!


----------



## killer b (Apr 29, 2011)

there has been a depressing lack of explosions or poison gas attacks thus far, true.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 30, 2011)

Fuuuuuck.  I've been thinking it's Saturday all day and I've just settled down to watch Dr Who.  I'm so disappointed.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 30, 2011)

Watched The Impossible Astronaut again last night. Wanna know a theory?

How do I use the spoiler thing?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2011)

Theories are not spoilers. Your erroneous predictions cannot ruin anyone's fun.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 30, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Theories are not spoilers. Your erroneous predictions cannot ruin anyone's fun.


 
Well la-di-dah. Fush you, mang, I'm not saying now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Watched The Impossible Astronaut again last night. Wanna know a theory?
> 
> How do I use the spoiler thing?


 
in brackets (real ones, not parentheses) 



Spoiler: yourtexthere



blah blah blah



quote me and look at the tags


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 30, 2011)

Ta. Wild conjecture of course.



Spoiler: yourtexthere



River Song is Amy's baby. She is also the Impossible Astronaut. She's in prison for killing the Doctor. "Who did you kill?"


----------



## strung out (Apr 30, 2011)

hope this doesn't spoil anything, but a whole load of shit isn't going to get anywhere close to being explained tonight. lots of this stuff is going to continue right through the whole season.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 30, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Ta. Wild conjecture of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
You're so right.  I've thought the third sentence of the spoiler for a while, it's pretty obvious.  But the rest works too.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 30, 2011)

Well that was very strongly suggested in the last season/series, so much so I feel it might be a red herring.


----------



## al (Apr 30, 2011)

Loving this episode already- spooky children's home ftw!


----------



## emanymton (Apr 30, 2011)

Pirates,


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2011)

River Song, or a new Time Lady?


----------



## Augie March (Apr 30, 2011)

The Doctor and Amy's daughter?


----------



## Augie March (Apr 30, 2011)

Actually, maybe the little girl is the Doctor...


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 30, 2011)

2-parter wasn't enough for the Silence, they'd had enough build-up / material to make them good for at least a 4-parter. 

They should've kept the Doctor's beard too, he looked dead cool with it.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 30, 2011)

That was pretty much What. The. Fuck? from beginning to end.


----------



## killer b (Apr 30, 2011)

that was great. might need to give it a second watch though, the kids were fairly vocal throughout.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Apr 30, 2011)

killer b said:


> that was great. might need to give it a second watch though, the kids were fairly vocal throughout.



Aren't kids meant to be put behind the sofa so the adults can enjoy the show.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Apr 30, 2011)

It's very good


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 30, 2011)

i don't think i'm grown up enough for so much stuff being left unexplained at the end of each episode.

anyway. river can't be amy and the doctor's baby cos of that snog. and anyway, i think it's comprehensively declaring that amy has been faithful to Rory (who's a much better companion than pond).

the little girl was regenerating at the time that amy's baby would be full term. 
the scanner switched between negative and positive for amy's pregnancy.

could the little girl regenerate into amy's baby?

could a child conceived / carried / born on the tardis absorb all that gold tardisy time stuff, like rose did?


i like that the child grows up into river song. but river's never been desperately affectionate to amy or rory... hmm... and the child we saw in the orphanage and all those photos had straight hair. Hair as curly as river's will have been curly from birth...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2011)

* all that gold tardisy time stuff,*

that is the energy that powers all TARDIS's- a linky version of the gallifreyan Eye of Harmony. Their tame singularity.

I missed the first half because I was helping next door move their damn sofa and white goods out. curses.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 30, 2011)

I was nearly behind the sofa for some of that. Great way to defeat the Silence, but I can't see that with that build-up they're gone for good.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 30, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> * all that gold tardisy time stuff,*
> 
> that is the energy that powers all TARDIS's- a linky version of the gallifreyan Eye of Harmony. Their tame singularity.
> 
> I missed the first half because I was helping next door move their damn sofa and white goods out. curses.


 
That was definitely a regeneration though. They even showed us one in the previous episode so we'd be sure to recognise it.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> I can't see that with that build-up they're gone for good.



Or: with such expensive latex masks, which is why the Ood were flogged to death.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> That was definitely a regeneration though. They even showed us one in the previous episode so we'd be sure to recognise it.


 
Bit of retconning needed on the first nine regenerations, of course . . .


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 30, 2011)

"open the swimming pool doors"


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 30, 2011)

IF it was river song as a child that killed the doctor, why didn't she show any recognition of it when she saw it happen as an adult?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Bit of retconning needed on the first nine regenerations, of course . . .


 
Retconning? on Doctor Who and associated spin off media? NEVER!


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 30, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> IF it was river song as a child that killed the doctor, why didn't she show any recognition of it when she saw it happen as an adult?



Not sure - but she did say "Of course" when shooting at it didn't do anything.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 30, 2011)

I liked the subtlety of the comment that Nixon ought to tape all his conversations from now on.


----------



## Santino (Apr 30, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I liked the subtlety of the comment that Nixon ought to tape all his conversations from now on.


 
Do you enjoy the subtlety of a hammer in the face?


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> Do you enjoy the subtlety of a hammer in the face?


 
Your face


----------



## Santino (Apr 30, 2011)

no yours


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 30, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> "open the swimming pool doors"


 He really really didn't like Adric.


----------



## strung out (Apr 30, 2011)

gnoriac said:


> 2-parter wasn't enough for the Silence, they'd had enough build-up / material to make them good for at least a 4-parter.


 
what makes you think we've seen the last of the silence? we already know that the silence have been instructing the guy in the orphanage to look after the little girl for a couple of years. there's also at least one silence in 2011 (amy spots it in the distance in the first episode) and from the last series, we know that the silence have been present on other planets.

mark my words, there's still much more to come from them.


----------



## T & P (May 1, 2011)

Rather enjoyable, though very much an ever-developing plot with endless new questions and twists emerging. It seems the practice of 'closed' episodes (if that's the right word), i.e. a story that's concluded within a single episode with no cliffhangers or relevance on the larger plot of the series, has been all but been abandoned now.

Were the old-school series like this? Hell, even the early series of this new era had plenty of one-off stories with no relevance to the larger plot. Nowadays everything happens for a reason and everything has consequences. Very intricate storyline indeed...


----------



## 8115 (May 1, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> IF it was river song as a child that killed the doctor, why didn't she show any recognition of it when she saw it happen as an adult?


 
She's got her own agenda, she wouldn't necessarily show that she had done it.

The thing I don't get is, River Song and the Doctor, they are both time travellers, so they don't meet in the right order, fair enough.  But they seem to meet back to front, ie as one gets older the other gets younger.  But there's no logical reason why this should be the case?  The first time that they kiss for the Doctor doesn't have to be the last time they kiss for River, might be one of the middle times.  But River says it's all back to front, like when she said, one day I'll see him, and he won't know who I am and it's killing me.  I don't get it.  But then they also have to check their diaries.  Is it just badly thought out or is it me being stupid?


----------



## strung out (May 1, 2011)

T & P said:


> Rather enjoyable, though very much an ever-developing plot with endless new questions and twists emerging. It seems the practice of 'closed' episodes (if that's the right word), i.e. a story that's concluded within a single episode with no cliffhangers or relevance on the larger plot of the series, has been all but been abandoned now.
> 
> Were the old-school series like this? Hell, even the early series of this new era had plenty of one-off stories with no relevance to the larger plot. Nowadays everything happens for a reason and everything has consequences. Very intricate storyline indeed...


 
next week is just a standalone episode (i've already seen it)


----------



## rover07 (May 1, 2011)

I loved Alex Kingston doing her Lara Croft impression at the end. I was hoping she'd do a forward roll too.


----------



## strung out (May 1, 2011)

8115 said:


> She's got her own agenda, she wouldn't necessarily show that she had done it.
> 
> The thing I don't get is, River Song and the Doctor, they are both time travellers, so they don't meet in the right order, fair enough.  But they seem to meet back to front, ie as one gets older the other gets younger.  But there's no logical reason why this should be the case?  The first time that they kiss for the Doctor doesn't have to be the last time they kiss for River, might be one of the middle times.  But River says it's all back to front, like when she said, one day I'll see him, and he won't know who I am and it's killing me.  I don't get it.  But then they also have to check their diaries.  Is it just badly thought out or is it me being stupid?


 
yeah, it's a bit odd. the implication is that they're living their lives in opposite directions, though there appears to be the odd hiccup every now and then where they don't necessarily need to meet in the right order. i guess it's just dramatic license.


----------



## CNT36 (May 1, 2011)

she should get at least one More kiss from him. If you remember he pops buy and gives her his sonic screwdriver before she goes to the library. Seems a bit out of the way if he doesn't nail her. She Also met the now dead future doctor out of sequence.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2011)

strung out said:


> next week is just a standalone episode (i've already seen it)


 
Given the amount of inside knowledge you have, I think that you get the balance between avoiding spoilers and passing on useful info exactly right. It doesn't get noted often, precisely because it is so unintrusive.


----------



## strung out (May 1, 2011)

i don't know a whole load myself to be honest. i'm just lucky enough to watch the odd episode in advance every now and then, and because i was brought up on doctor who, am able to piece together bits of continuity from the old and new series fairly well.

it's my brother who has all the spoilers about what happens in the rest of the series, but he's always good enough not to give anything away


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 1, 2011)

Lots of good stuff in there, very scary and disturbing. The 'alien amnesia' twist was genius - and added to the dark, headfuck nature of the story (partly borrowed from 'memento' but no less effective for that) . Also the solution for getting rid of the silence was neat (and pretty dark for dr. who). 

However I fear moffat may be overdoing it with the over complex dicking about with the plot. To leave _that much_ of the story unresolved and unexplained is taking a major risk that isn't needed - there was plenty there already without having to be a smartarse. Its Dr Who - not twin peaks ffs.


----------



## CNT36 (May 1, 2011)

does anyone think More happened in that three months skipped at te beginning than is being let on? How did the silence know who Amy was last week? Perhaps Amy being pregnant is a manifestation depending on a probable future event like them cracks. The doctor who it was established by rory doesn't do personal questions he asked Amy why she told him and not rory. Maybe he realised she Was under the influence of the silence acting on the vague instructions given to her after joy was killed. Maybe the silence were trying to get her to reveal about the doctors death and her time crack addled brain is fighting the suggestion as best it can. If the silence knew about the doctors death it would suggest they can travel in time. Were the growing the girl as a possible time pilot? Why didn't Amy and rory kill the silence on sight?


----------



## spanglechick (May 1, 2011)

The silence's spaceship - isn't it the same as the one that lived upstairs from James corden?


----------



## Greebo (May 1, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> The silence's spaceship - isn't it the same as the one that lived upstairs from James corden?


According to Dr Who confidential, yes.


----------



## spanglechick (May 1, 2011)

Greebo said:


> According to Dr Who confidential, yes.


 
as a plot thing? or just re-using sets?


----------



## Greebo (May 1, 2011)

As a plot thing - claimed to tie up a loose end from the Lodger episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 1, 2011)

That one upstairs was to do with the silence wasn't it. IIRC. Silence will fall.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 1, 2011)

Where we could do really do with 'silence falling' is with regards to the utter bollocks, overloud background music in nearly every single fucking scene - sort it out moffat. 

As if ruining the theme tune wasn't bad enough.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2011)

The extended pre-credits sequence included a parody of really crap daytime gameshows, called _Dare to Scare the Hare!_. It was too shoddy and unbelievable to be an effective lampoon, but I didn't understand how it fitted into the Silents or the TimeSprog story lines.


----------



## stuff_it (May 1, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Actually, maybe the little girl is the Doctor...



Maybe it's River 

And if it's meant to be the same ship as in The Lodger, or of the same type, then it's a type of Tardis, or meant to be....


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 1, 2011)

Just watched it and thought it was excellent, some scary moments, some funny moments and an "WTF is going on?!" ending. Matt Smith is a great doctor


----------



## Epona (May 2, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Where we could do really do with 'silence falling' is with regards to the utter bollocks, overloud background music in nearly every single fucking scene - sort it out moffat.
> 
> As if ruining the theme tune wasn't bad enough.


 
I have specific trouble with "hearing" dialogue (due to an auditory processing problem, I can't filter out dialogue and give it higher priority than background noise in my brain), and I can confirm that most modern Doctor Who episodes are plagued by this problem of over-loud background music.  Some episodes are worse than others, and tbh I didn't think this one was one of the worst, compared to some of the Tennant episodes.

They do need to sort it out though.


----------



## gsv (May 2, 2011)

Feed back Epona. Put it in terms of equal access to license-fee-funded content and the public service charter. Words the BBC understands.

GS(v)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2011)

Lots of interesting moments to hook you in, but none of them paid off. Obviously we now have our series thread that will be 'reset' in the last episode or something. Yawn. 
Still better dramatic telly than anything else I can think of at the moment.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> does anyone think More happened in that three months skipped at te beginning than is being let on? How did the silence know who Amy was last week? Perhaps Amy being pregnant is a manifestation depending on a probable future event like them cracks. The doctor who it was established by rory doesn't do personal questions he asked Amy why she told him and not rory. Maybe he realised she Was under the influence of the silence acting on the vague instructions given to her after joy was killed. Maybe the silence were trying to get her to reveal about the doctors death and her time crack addled brain is fighting the suggestion as best it can. If the silence knew about the doctors death it would suggest they can travel in time. Were the growing the girl as a possible time pilot? Why didn't Amy and rory kill the silence on sight?



Maybe amy was pregnant but had the baby hence she is not pregnant anymore. 
Why the baby is a time baby, who knows?


----------



## joustmaster (May 2, 2011)

maybe its that romana woman from the old doctor who.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> maybe its that romana woman from the old doctor who.


 
Ooohhhh, yeah. Hang on though, why would she be a child?


----------



## CNT36 (May 2, 2011)

Maybe but if you noticed when they were in the Tardis at the end the Doctor did a scan of Amy that kept flicking between positive and negative for pregnancy.


----------



## fogbat (May 2, 2011)

That little girl just suffers from Exploding Hand and Head syndrome. The resemblance to regeneration is coincidental.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> Maybe but if you noticed when they were in the Tardis at the end the Doctor did a scan of Amy that kept flicking between positive and negative for pregnancy.


 
Nah that was just to symbolize visually that the machine was running a test (I think it said as much on the screen), he got the results out of our view.


----------



## Stigmata (May 2, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Nah that was just to symbolize visually that the machine was running a test (I think it said as much on the screen), he got the results out of our view.


 
I don't think it was you know. I think there's some weirdness afoot.


----------



## spanglechick (May 2, 2011)

somebody on my facebook just observed - could the girl be the doctor's daughter from the david tennant prog of the same name?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 2, 2011)

I don't think that there is any suggestion that the Doctor is knobbing Amy, whether conventionally or in some mysterious timey-wimey fashion. He backed off in a gentlemanly manner when she demanded to be sorted out, and good egg assistants in the pre-eatershed Whoniverse aren't actively unfaithful to other good egg assistants, especially ones who have demonstrated their loyalty through 2000 years as a plastic roman. The time baby, whether it's River, the Rani or whoever, is presumably "time headed" for other reasons.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I don't think it was you know. I think there's some weirdness afoot.


 
We shall see.


----------



## Augie March (May 2, 2011)

I almost forgot with everything else happened in the episode, but what was the deal with Amy seeing that lady in the door hatch that wasn't really there? Any theories as to who she was? I can't remember what she said either...


----------



## strung out (May 2, 2011)

i think she said something like "it's ok, she's just dreaming"

unexplained so far. more to come later in the series...


----------



## CNT36 (May 2, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> somebody on my facebook just observed - could the girl be the doctor's daughter from the david tennant prog of the same name?


 
 No. Because that would be shit. Maybe yes but it would be as exciting as if the silence had turned out to be davros or the master. It needs to be someone new or vaguely important to the viewer. I know Moffat is the one who had her come back to life so he May have some plan for her. He may have just done it to annoy the internets. Look at the digs in blink.


----------



## 8115 (May 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think she said something like "it's ok, she's just dreaming"
> 
> unexplained so far. more to come later in the series...


 
That was spooky.  And who was that lady?  Maybe Amy's mum?

There's no way the baby is the doctor's.  If h/she can time travel, it's because of all that time travelling Amy did while pregnant.  The whole Rory/ Doctor thing was pretty conclusively sorted out by the "stupid face" speech Amy made when she was in the dark and we and Rory thought was for the Doctor but turned out to be for Rory.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 2, 2011)

8115 said:


> Maybe Amy's mum?
> 
> .



What, her?


----------



## 8115 (May 2, 2011)

Oh, I don't remember Amy ever having a mother?  Probably not then.


----------



## strung out (May 2, 2011)

amy's mother was absent from amy's life until they reconstructed the universe in the final episode of last season, and it was made so that she was there all along.


----------



## Augie March (May 2, 2011)

Her name apparently is Madame Kovarian and she plays a big part in episode 7...

My theory is that Amy (or possibly everyone) is living through two alternative timelines/realities at the same time.


----------



## binka (May 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Still better dramatic telly than anything else I can think of at the moment.


 
high praise indeed 

i enjoyed the first two episodes. it was a good idea for a monster and i thought the method of defeating them was pretty clever from the writer.

considering the girl was pretty much central to everything and trying to find her took up most of the two episodes it doesn't really make sense that they would all leave without finding her. i know its obviously a series long story line but its not very realistic

having said that this series is looking to be quite good. things have come a long way from the slitheen, aliens made out of human fat and peter kay


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 3, 2011)

love and monstors was a particularly low point of the series


----------



## stuff_it (May 3, 2011)

8115 said:


> She's got her own agenda, she wouldn't necessarily show that she had done it.
> 
> The thing I don't get is, River Song and the Doctor, they are both time travellers, so they don't meet in the right order, fair enough.  But they seem to meet back to front, ie as one gets older the other gets younger.  But there's no logical reason why this should be the case?  The first time that they kiss for the Doctor doesn't have to be the last time they kiss for River, might be one of the middle times.  But River says it's all back to front, like when she said, one day I'll see him, and he won't know who I am and it's killing me.  I don't get it.  But then they also have to check their diaries.  Is it just badly thought out or is it me being stupid?


 
Curly hair....could be a different body after a regeneration.

Meeting in reverse, it would make sense that River kills the Dr, and seeing as that would be at the end of his life it would need to be near the beginning of hers.

If Pond has been faithful to Rory and the baby/child is able to regenerate due to more time travel than is recommended for a young lady that hopes to have children then there is no problem with the Dr snogging her.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 4, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Ta. Wild conjecture of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aye, s'what I was thinking.



emanymton said:


> Well that was very strongly suggested in the last season/series, so much so I feel it might be a red herring.


Aye, s'what I was thinking too...


----------



## ericjarvis (May 4, 2011)

binka said:


> having said that this series is looking to be quite good. things have come a long way from the slitheen, aliens made out of human fat and peter kay


 
Surely Peter Kay IS an alien made out of human fat.


----------



## fogbat (May 4, 2011)

Can't wait to see Wayne Rooney in this week's episode!

(I think I got that right, didn't I? )


----------



## Santino (May 4, 2011)

fogbat said:


> Can't wait to see Wayne Rooney in this week's episode!
> 
> (I think I got that right, didn't I? )


 
You've made a mistake there but I can't tell you what it is.


----------



## strung out (May 5, 2011)

this week's episode is fun enough, but i found it quite problematic.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 5, 2011)

as much  as  i like this two parter  i kinda wish  they  would  be less  inward focused. why do  we have to have  so much  air time  being focused on  the companions  and thier lives  when we have a whole god damn universe to  explore  

it's a bit too soap opera and not enough sci-fi

mind you it's a minor gripe  and at least this stuff is better  than   much of what  has happened before. in fact i probably  wouldn't care  except  new who has sorta ground our  face in it.  i mean  i don't mind  pond as a companion   especially  when balanced out with rory  but  i'm left feeling overexposed  by now  i mean   she  was  practically  the main character  last season


----------



## Balbi (May 7, 2011)

Oh my.

Rushed it this week, potentially a good episode - let down a bit.

Fuck yeah space pirates though 

And next week


----------



## fogbat (May 7, 2011)

I was glad they managed to work the phrase "yo ho ho" in


----------



## spanglechick (May 7, 2011)

i thought that was a bit meh, tbh. but next week looks great.

btw - can't think of many moffat episodes that don't feature children. RTD really did feel much more adult, and for that, moffat should be commended.


----------



## Balbi (May 7, 2011)

Lily Cole being muted's a bit of a sticker for me. Yeah great she sings and it's anaesthetic, but a silent sirenous female etc etc 

If the slidey hatch lady means this half of a series was Amy's dream, i'm going to murder someone.


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2011)

bit rubbish this week. oh well.


----------



## Balbi (May 7, 2011)

Ood next week. Ood are Tennant era.


----------



## strung out (May 7, 2011)

yeah, i didn't think this week's episode was that great either. fun enough, but meh.


----------



## binka (May 7, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> btw - can't think of many moffat episodes that don't feature children. RTD really did feel much more adult, and for that, moffat should be commended.


 
be interested to know what you mean by adult? the absence or presence of children shouldnt be a factor. imo moffat is much more intelligent and interesting - i always thought rtd was more childish 

didnt think much of this weeks episode tbh but probably the fact my dad is half cut and wouldnt stop talking didnt help


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 7, 2011)

It was a nice underlying idea, but relied too much on Cole being pretty and pirates being intrinsically a good thing. Character plausibility went with the sudden decision of the pirates to become chummy with the violent stowaways, and the moppet reached Macaulay Caulkin levels of irksome.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 7, 2011)

binka said:


> didnt think much of this weeks episode tbh but probably the fact my dad is half cut and wouldnt stop talking didnt help


 
He certainly ruined it for me.


----------



## spanglechick (May 7, 2011)

binka said:


> be interested to know what you mean by adult? the absence or presence of children shouldnt be a factor. imo moffat is much more intelligent and interesting - i always thought rtd was more childish
> 
> didnt think much of this weeks episode tbh but probably the fact my dad is half cut and wouldnt stop talking didnt help


 
adult as in - with RTD there wasn't much sense that it was a programme for children and adults, I felt he was just making adult telly with nothing too rude so it was safe for kids.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 7, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> adult as in - with RTD there wasn't much sense that it was a programme for children and adults, I felt he was just making adult telly with nothing too rude so it was safe for kids.


 
Children - even quite young ones - went hogwild for the RTD reboot, so presumably they didn't agree.


----------



## Balbi (May 7, 2011)

He did disintegrate the child though


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2011)

Balbi said:


> He did disintegrate the child though


 
yeh there was that.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2011)

amy saw that weird woman in her dream. her that is going to be in it laer on.

OK I suppose but I worked out that it was a medical program as soon as they teleported. Tiny Tim gets to fly the ship forever


----------



## spanglechick (May 7, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Children - even quite young ones - went hogwild for the RTD reboot, so presumably they didn't agree.


 
no sure - fair enough.  i just noticed that lots and lots more episodes under moffat have children in the plot.


----------



## Stigmata (May 7, 2011)

Rogue alien medical technology has been done before- in that creepy Blitz set Eccleston two parter. Still Hugh Bonneville is always watchable and I like pirate stuff.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 7, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> that creepy Blitz set Eccleston two parter. .



Which was also Moffat, of course.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2011)

Thought the plot a bit silly. Couple of good lines, though; the one about "Confused? Well there's lots of us - we should get t-shirts" was good. 

A bit of a feeling of filler, though.


----------



## strung out (May 7, 2011)

it was supposed to come later on in the series but got moved to the third episode fairly late on. not sure why, but like you say, it seemed like a bit of fluff to fill in a gap.


----------



## spanglechick (May 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> it was supposed to come later on in the series but got moved to the third episode fairly late on. not sure why, but like you say, it seemed like a bit of fluff to fill in a gap.


 
which means that negative/positive pregnancy thing will still be unresolved for ages....


----------



## fogbat (May 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> it was supposed to come later on in the series but got moved to the third episode fairly late on. not sure why, but like you say, it seemed like a bit of fluff to fill in a gap.


 
They wanted to show the Hugh Bonneville episode while he was still in the news.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2011)

fogbat said:


> They wanted to show the Hugh Bonneville episode while he was still in the news.


The guy who was Mr Bennett in Lost in Austin?  What was he in the news for?


----------



## strung out (May 7, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> which means that negative/positive pregnancy thing will still be unresolved for ages....


 
that might have been added in later on tbh. i know they filmed tonight's episode 9th but it could well have had the odd extra shot (like the pregnancy bit) added in afterwards. i'm in the dark too about that one.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> The guy who was Mr Bennett in Lost in Austin?  What was he in the news for?



He may or may not have taken out a super-injunction about shagging Wayne Rooney. I might be wrong; I'm going on rumour and hearsay.


----------



## Stigmata (May 7, 2011)

Cue Roger the Cabin Boy puns


----------



## 8115 (May 8, 2011)

The positive/ negative thing is because Amy's baby is a time lord and keeps time-lording out of her body and back in.  Or something.  This weeks was ok I suppose.  I was a bit disappointed this week.  It never really went anywhere.  I love the lady who says "stay calm".  She was the only good thing in it.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 8, 2011)

Filler.  If it was moved as strung out says then most likely because of all the johnny depp pirates-o-the-Caribbean adverts just now.   Enjoyable romp, nothing special.  Is it just me or is Smith looking weirder all the time?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> He may or may not have taken out a super-injunction about shagging Wayne Rooney. I might be wrong; I'm going on rumour and hearsay.


Is he supposed to be "Married Actor" then?  Surely not, that person's meant to be famous.  I've barely heard of him.  I didn't even know his name.

Anyway, I liked this episode.  I don't see what everyone has against it.  It was fun, looked good, and was more coherent than the opening two parter.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Is he supposed to be "Married Actor" then?  Surely not, that person's meant to be famous.  I've barely heard of him.  I didn't even know his name.
> 
> Anyway, I liked this episode.  I don't see what everyone has against it.  It was fun, looked good, and was more coherent than the opening two parter.



Well, I'd never heard of him until this injunction business. But I never know who anybody is. I spend the first 20 minutes of last night's episode thinking he was Trevor Eve.

Eh, last night's was knockabout fun, and I dunno what it was, but the story confused me. Got a bit left behind in the transition from monster attacking pirates to double-parked spaceships & nurse software.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Eh, last night's was knockabout fun, and I dunno what it was, but the story confused me. Got a bit left behind in the transition from monster attacking pirates to double-parked spaceships & nurse software.


They thought she was attacking, but really she was healing.  Bossily.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> They thought she was attacking, but really she was healing.  *Bossily*.



 Oh, I've had it _explained_ to me now. We are a household in which one of the adults owns a foot-high cyberman, a large remote-controlled K-9 and about 12 Tardises. And it's not me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2011)

The plot was okay - some of the pseudoscience didn't quite hold together so well for me but basically not bad - but the ridiculousness of the pirates kept getting to me. They just didn't reach the level of gritty realism of other series like, say, Captain Pugwash.

Also, I thought I'd come to like Matt Smith but I still don't. I thought it was just that he was working from silly overblown scripts but he's still the Jim Carrey Doctor.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2011)

not enough amy+peril but I always say that


----------



## Stigmata (May 8, 2011)

She got a bit soggy though. That was good.


----------



## stuff_it (May 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The plot was okay - some of the pseudoscience didn't quite hold together so well for me but basically not bad - but the ridiculousness of the pirates kept getting to me. They just didn't reach the level of gritty realism of other series like, say, Captain Pugwash.


 
100%, the Dr even had to tell them to laugh when he was walking the plank ffs! 

Properly rubbish, they'd only last 5 seconds against ninjas!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 8, 2011)

Space pirates
Music 
kids
teleporting





Blatant rip off.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> 100%, the Dr even had to tell them to laugh when he was walking the plank ffs!
> 
> Properly rubbish, they'd only last 5 seconds against ninjas!


I liked that.  I like his obsession with inappropriate hats, too.

Anyway, they weren't in the mood for bloodlust: they were in the doldrums (literally) and besieged by a Siren.  They were depressed, afraid, and uncertain of the future.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 8, 2011)

PS

it was shit at usual, with gaping plot holes.


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2011)

anyone notice how it was a prequel to 1966's The Smuggler's where the doctor encounters a bunch of people looking for Avery's treasure?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2011)

strung out said:


> anyone notice how it was a prequel to 1966's The Smuggler's where the doctor encounters a bunch of people looking for Avery's treasure?


No.  Nobody normal noticed that.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2011)

did anyone else notice Amy seein/dreaming flames- like the flames of a pyre? A pyre not unlike that upon which tennant burned the masters corpse?

eh?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> PS
> 
> it was shit at usual, with gaping plot holes.




Why do you watch it?


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> No.  Nobody normal noticed that.


 


i had to have it pointed out to me tbh


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> did anyone else notice Amy seein/dreaming flames- like the flames of a pyre? A pyre not unlike that upon which tennant burned the masters corpse?
> 
> eh?


 
they were the flames from when they burnt the doctor's body in the first episode weren't they?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2011)

I was proper lashed when I watched the first episode, so I cannot comment.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2011)

strung out said:


> they were the flames from when they burnt the doctor's body in the first episode weren't they?


That's what I thought.  It was all part of the "we can't tell him he'll die in 200 years' time and what kind of pregnant is Amy?" thing.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2011)

strung out said:


> i had to have it pointed out to me tbh




That's what they all say.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 8, 2011)

It was the slightly disappointing second story which happens every year. Just like one of the stand alones - ep 9 or 10 - will probably be shite (this didn't happen last year, but was the first time ever).

RTD wasn't more adult than Moffat - a few risque innuendoes don't overcome Aliens of London, Love and Monsters, the writing of the Master and every end of season emotional manipulation. Moffat's Doctor is fundamentally far darker and more adult, just in a way that can scare the shite out of the kiddies too.


----------



## Augie March (May 8, 2011)

Augie March said:


> My theory is that Amy (or possibly everyone) is living through two alternative timelines/realities at the same time.


 
If I'm right, last night's episode certainly helped to set-up the idea of them living in alternative realities at the same time.

Incidentally, did anyone feel Rory coming back to life was more than just a dramatic plot point? I noticed the Doctor looked a bit worried about it...


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2011)

On your first point I was thinking the same. this episode as established that 2 different realties can exist 'on top of each other' and it would explain the woman looking in the hatch and Amy's fluctuating pregnancy.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 8, 2011)

emanymton said:


> this episode as established that 2 different realties can exist 'on top of each other' .



I suspect that has happened just a _couple_ of times before in the whoniverse.


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2011)

yeah, just a few 

e-space trilogy for one


----------



## emanymton (May 8, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I suspect that has happened just a _couple_ of times before in the whoniverse.


 
Yeah OK, maybe I should have said reminded us or something, but you know what I mean.


----------



## CNT36 (May 8, 2011)

Augie March said:


> If I'm right, last night's episode certainly helped to set-up the idea of them living in alternative realities at the same time.
> 
> Incidentally, did anyone feel Rory coming back to life was more than just a dramatic plot point? I noticed the Doctor looked a bit worried about it...


 The guy has died three or four times now. I'd start getting worried as well.


----------



## 8den (May 8, 2011)

I'm sorry the new series is rubbish. It's like someone looked at Michael Bay or Jerry Brucikhemier


----------



## 8115 (May 8, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> PS
> 
> it was shit at usual, with gaping plot holes.


 
It did have gaping plot holes, like he smashed the mirror but there would still have been some smallish reflections, certainly as big as the siren pendant they were so worried about.  And a crown wrapped up apparently isn't reflective.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 8, 2011)

Amy in a pirate costume 


This is all.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 8, 2011)

Aaaarrrr


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2011)




----------



## claphamboy (May 8, 2011)

Just finished reading an interview with Karen Gillan (Amy) is yesterday's 'i on Saturday' paper, I think I am more in love than ever.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2011)

What happened to the secon bloke in the powder room, the one that the little boy cut with the cutlass. His mate took the crown and left, was chased by the Dr and the Capt. into a room where the siren got him. But the other pirate was last scene barricading the door again but then disappeared until the last scene when he was on the bridge of the ship.

What happened to him in between? When did the siren get him?

Mmmm...not a great episode sadly though enjoyable enough I suppose.


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2011)

yeah, i thought that when i was watching it too QoG. i think it was just a bit of clumsy editing. there are huge amounts of footage that get cut for whatever reason.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Amy in a pirate costume
> 
> 
> This is all.


 
Some people would get excited if she appeared in a welder's mask and overalls. Actually probably quite a few. As long as you could see some hair around the sides of the mask.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 8, 2011)

strung out said:


> yeah, i thought that when i was watching it too QoG. i think it was just a bit of clumsy editing. there are huge amounts of footage that get cut for whatever reason.


 
I wondered if it was going to be some kind of plot point i.e. they had forgotten he existed, but I think you're right and it was just clumsy editing. The episode as a whole felt a bit like filler tbh. 

Though I am also knackered and rather fractious so may not be viewing it through altogether happy eyes!!


----------



## magneze (May 8, 2011)

Rory seems to exist in order to get into danger or be possibly killed. Rip of Kenny in South Park.


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I wondered if it was going to be some kind of plot point i.e. they had forgotten he existed, but I think you're right and it was just clumsy editing. The episode as a whole felt a bit like filler tbh.
> 
> Though I am also knackered and rather fractious so may not be viewing it through altogether happy eyes!!


 
he was back by the end as the pirates sailed/flew off into outer space


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Some people would get excited if she appeared in a welder's mask and overalls. Actually probably quite a few. As long as you could see some hair around the sides of the mask.



She'd have to put on something else as far as I'm concerned. Like about 3 stone.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2011)

lol dad post. Amy is a godess and I would eat glass for a chance to buy her dinner.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 8, 2011)

Jsut watched it on catch up with my 11 year old daughter. 

We both agreed that it was shit. 

Throwaway novelty episode. 

Redeemed slightly by pond dressed as pirate but thats about it.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 8, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> lol dad post. Amy is a godess and I would eat glass for a chance to buy her dinner.



Fuck off dad post.  She's no Rose


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 8, 2011)

i quite liked it

it was light hearted and a reasonable romp

i'm not  sure it can be called filler  any more than any stand alone episode.  i still think this is a cut above a lot of  the  stand alone episodes   from the previous  few seasons.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 8, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Fuck off dad post.  She's no Rose


 
she not as bad  no


----------



## strung out (May 8, 2011)

i agree with that shippou. i wasn't madly keen on it, but it was head and shoulders above most stuff from the first 3 or 4 years since it returned.


----------



## stuff_it (May 8, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I wondered if it was going to be some kind of plot point i.e. they had forgotten he existed, but I think you're right and it was just clumsy editing. The episode as a whole felt a bit like filler tbh.
> 
> Though I am also knackered and rather fractious so may not be viewing it through altogether happy eyes!!


 
Maybe it *was* a plot point....they slipped into a reality where he didn't exist, and back into one where he did by the end?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 8, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Maybe it *was* a plot point....they slipped into a reality where he didn't exist, and back into one where he did by the end?


 
maybe they left him unconcious because he was a cunt?


----------



## 8115 (May 8, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> What happened to the secon bloke in the powder room, the one that the little boy cut with the cutlass. His mate took the crown and left, was chased by the Dr and the Capt. into a room where the siren got him. But the other pirate was last scene barricading the door again but then disappeared until the last scene when he was on the bridge of the ship.
> 
> What happened to him in between? When did the siren get him?
> 
> Mmmm...not a great episode sadly though enjoyable enough I suppose.


 
Yeah, something happened and the siren got him I think.  The one in the powder room, they heard him get sirened through the door and the other one fell over, or fell in the water or something.


----------



## gsv (May 8, 2011)

Standard monster-of-the-week ep.
Plus a Schrodinger's Pond 

GS(v)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 9, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Fuck off dad post.  She's no Rose


 
Thank the lord. Ugh, rose.


----------



## ericjarvis (May 9, 2011)

magneze said:


> Rory seems to exist in order to get into danger or be possibly killed. Rip of Kenny in South Park.


 
Yes. Precisely. That's the best thing about the recent stuff. The eye candy that constantly needs to be rescued is not only a bloke, but he's not even particularly attractive. I love watching a cliche being hung drawn and quartered.


----------



## hektik (May 9, 2011)

last episode was pretty meh. The next episode is the neil gaiman one though, so I have high hopes for it. it is amazing (apparently).


----------



## T & P (May 9, 2011)

hektik said:


> last episode was pretty meh. The next episode is the neil gaiman one though, so I have high hopes for it. it is amazing (apparently).


 Is it? Great stuff! 

I'd love to see one directed by Guillermo del Toro as well...


----------



## hektik (May 10, 2011)

http://www.cultbox.co.uk/reviews/episodes/1006-doctor-who-the-doctors-wife-spoiler-free-review

EEEP. - spoiler-free review of the next episode.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 10, 2011)

if Ikea sold tardis'







[/QUOTE]


----------



## Augie March (May 10, 2011)

hektik said:


> http://www.cultbox.co.uk/reviews/episodes/1006-doctor-who-the-doctors-wife-spoiler-free-review
> 
> EEEP. - spoiler-free review of the next episode.





> Neil Gaiman has crafted an ingenious plot that will satisfy the internerd and long term fan (and give some serious food for thought) whilst absolutely enthralling and enchanting everyone else. In no uncertain terms 'The Doctor's Wife' is an instant classic with scenes that will live long in the mind and characters that will delight and sadden in equal measure.



I really hope it lives up to some of this high praise.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (May 10, 2011)

my word there's some vertiginous lauding in that review...


----------



## Stigmata (May 10, 2011)

Gaiman's one of those writers whose fans can be a bit cultish. Like Joss Whedon. Luckily he's also pretty l33t so I have high hopes, hype notwithstanding.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 10, 2011)

Whatever the directors merits -  going by that trailor he hasn't had the sense to get rid of the appalling, intrusive music that comes close to ruining every 'dramatic' sequence. 

(sorry -pet hate) 

And did I mention they've ruined the theme tune?


----------



## fen_boy (May 11, 2011)

I don't mind the music apart from the 'The Doctor Is About To Do Something Amazing' music which starts about 5 minutes before he actually does something amazing, thus ruining the surprise.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 11, 2011)

Neil Gaiman is the writer , not the director , so he has no real opinion on the music...

but he seems to be quite pleased with the out come..


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2011)

I just read mirror mask which was quite good for a quick kids read, though pretty similar in idea to Coraline. 
Did he do sandman? That was well shit. 

Is this one going to be about dreams and alternate evil parallels too?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2011)

ooh that's a good review. I wonder if I will finally be impressed.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 13, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Did he do sandman? That was well shit.



you what ? did you just read one book of the sandman and come to that conclusion? cos admitteldy a couple of the books are a bit rubbish the whole whole 10 book story is fantastic..

if i were you id try reading ' seasons of mist ' or even ' preludes and noctures ' you might change your opinion...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> you what ? did you just read one book of the sandman and come to that conclusion? cos admitteldy a couple of the books are a bit rubbish the whole whole 10 book story is fantastic..
> 
> if i were you id try reading ' seasons of mist ' or even ' preludes and noctures ' you might change your opinion...


 
Yes it was just one - A game of you - I think. Couldn't read any more after that.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 13, 2011)

ah that would make sense of your opinion , ' A game of you ' is actually the worst of the 10 books , if you see a copy of either of the ones i mentioned , give em a go


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> ah that would make sense of your opinion , ' A game of you ' is actually the worst of the 10 books , if you see a copy of either of the ones i mentioned , give em a go


 
OK, but I am only willing to chance a library copy so I might be waiting a while.


----------



## Balbi (May 14, 2011)

Oh my.

That set a high bar for the rest of the series


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2011)

Top stuff tonight. Corridors in the TARDIS!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2011)

another outing for the ood costume


----------



## stuff_it (May 14, 2011)

waiting for iplayer


----------



## Balbi (May 14, 2011)

Gaiman delivered for real.


----------



## al (May 14, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> another outing for the ood costume


 
Nice touch with it being unceremoniously disintegrated at the end though...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Gaiman delivered for real.


 
yep. I was expecting it to be of quality but a TARDIS focused episode? The ambassador is spoiling us


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 14, 2011)

Strong like, even if the "let's build a tardis console from scratch!" was a trifle A-team, and the music was as invasive as it's been for ages. But Aunt, Uncle and Room were all great - especially when torturing Amy - and the Doctor/Tardis relationship was done beautifully.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 14, 2011)

Really enjoyed it, strong performances again from everyone (amusingly Helena Bonham Carter has been trending on twitter with people either mistaking Suranne Jones for her or noticing a similarity!) and I was a little weepy at the end. An interesting and adult episode


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2011)

hmmm, it was ok. just a silly romp though, essentially.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Really enjoyed it, strong performances again from everyone (*amusingly Helena Bonham Carter has been trending on twitter with people either mistaking Suranne Jones for her or noticing a similarity!)* and I was a little weepy at the end. An interesting and adult episode


 

That's if the episode was directed by Tim Burton and matt smith had regenerated into Jonny Depp


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2011)

twitter's gone plumb crazy over it. all the uk trends are related, and most seem to be claiming it's the second coming or suchlike. bizarre.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 14, 2011)

killer b said:


> hmmm, it was ok. just a silly romp though, essentially.


 
Well, yes, it's a programme aimed at the whole family, on at teatime, about a friendly alien. What do you want it to be?


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2011)

nothing, i was perfectly satisfied. i'm just baffled by the breathless responses (elsewhere rather than here tbh).


----------



## stuff_it (May 14, 2011)

I wonder if there is a fleshlight attachment hidden somewhere on that console....


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 14, 2011)

Of course there isn't. This is a Doctor who believes that bunk beds are cool, for goodness sake.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2011)

what was it the tardis said that they had to remember?

clues!


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2011)

'the only water in the forest is the river' or something similar.


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2011)

something to do with dr song? or a red herring?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 14, 2011)

No pond, then?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 14, 2011)

Oh, the one thing in that episode which worries me intensely: the Corsair. Moffat sneaking into canon that Time Lords can switch gender is a very, very bad thing.


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 14, 2011)

Loved tonight's episode. Anyone else think that there were shades of "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream"?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2011)

similar echoes I suppose, the thing controlling the TARDIS was like a malevolent all controlling thing. The bit where Amy runs into rory three times, once two hours, once 2000 years and then the corpse surrounded by psycho wall writing. Nicely done.


----------



## strung out (May 15, 2011)

i loved it. suranne jones was simply brilliant, wasn't she?


----------



## Gromit (May 15, 2011)

Neil Gaiman writes a Who episode where something is personified. I'm afraid because i know his style i spotted the twist miles off.

Still a good episode despite the obviousness.


----------



## strung out (May 15, 2011)

did anyone else think there were certain beckettian tones in the characters of aunt and uncle? reminded me slightly of endgame for some reason.


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Neil Gaiman writes a Who episode where something is personified. I'm afraid because i know his style i spotted the twist miles off.
> 
> Still a good episode despite the obviousness.


 
What twist?


----------



## Balbi (May 15, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Oh, the one thing in that episode which worries me intensely: the Corsair. Moffat sneaking into canon that Time Lords can switch gender is a very, very bad thing.



Why?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

Why? Because a girly Doctor would be an abomination against nature and the ruination of the show. Obviously.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (May 15, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Why? Because a girly Doctor would be an abomination against nature and the ruination of the show. Obviously.


 
Why?  Because it means that River Song is the Doctor and s/he is h(er)is own fathermother to the astronaut space-girl. Obviously.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 15, 2011)

strung out said:


> did anyone else think there were certain beckettian tones in the characters of aunt and uncle? reminded me slightly of endgame for some reason.


 
Now that have mentioned yeah I can see that . They were great characters


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

Talking of River Song, it occurs to me that she "killed the best man she'd ever known". Man, note, not Time Lord. I wonder if Rory, who displays a prediliction for getting offed at every possible opportunity to rival South Park's Kenny, will turn out to be her victim?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2011)

if he's the best man she's ever known she doesn't get out much


----------



## Pseudopsycho (May 15, 2011)

according to the Tardis he's the pretty one...


----------



## Augie March (May 15, 2011)

I enjoyed muchly Rory being turned into an ancient, Amy obsessed loonspud last night. They should do more of that.


----------



## Balbi (May 15, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Why? Because a girly Doctor would be an abomination against nature and the ruination of the show. Obviously.


 
Because females have to be girly


----------



## claphamboy (May 15, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Why? Because a girly Doctor would be an abomination against nature and the ruination of the show. Obviously.


 
I hope River Song ends up as the next Doctor, just to see your reaction.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

Oh, for the love of God. Is this going to turn into an absurd parade of SF geeks trying to prove their feminists credentials? Look, there's nothing wrong with women in their proper place. Consoling infants, perhaps, or stuffing prawns. They can even run cake shops and recruitment consultancies; I'm not suggesting they have no place in the world of work. But dashing around space and time in a blue box, defeating bad guys and saving favoured races, is quite clearly not something which can be trusted to the fairer sex. They're much too emotional and they take time off to have babies.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 15, 2011)

The longer these arcs and mysteries get dragged out, the more inclined I am to believe that Moffat is doing a Chris Carter and making it up as he goes along


----------



## Balbi (May 15, 2011)

NBN, you're a decade out with your pop culture.

The hip phrase all the hep cats are digging is 'Doing an Abrams' or 'Pulling a Lost'


----------



## Pseudopsycho (May 15, 2011)

The naysyaers can say what they like but at least Straczynski knew where he was going


----------



## Stigmata (May 15, 2011)

Michael Sheen's got a good voice hasn't he


----------



## spanglechick (May 15, 2011)

So - theories as to why the episode was called 'The Doctor's Wife'...?

edit - is River Song actually the tardis?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

No theories necessary, it was merely a joke, with a kernel of truth.


----------



## stuff_it (May 15, 2011)

Of course when we finally find out *whatever* loads of people will claim to have seen it coming all along.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 15, 2011)

Some good stuff in that episode - the uncle and auntie characters were great. Far much spod-tastic mumbo-jumbo though. Also too much unexplained - what was this 'house' thing? Why did it want to torture amy and rory? Just cos it was a wrongun? 
The thrills and spills and scares were laddled on very thick - but can we please, just for once, have a strightforward, well told dramatic story?

The old dr who (and indeed TV drama generally in back in the day) was severely limited by productions constraints so had to make do far more with dialouge and plot - and it its best it pulled it off. They also had far longer to develop stories.  Now - with far bigger budgets, infintely superior production values, CGI etc  and the move to single 50 minute episodes, I think a some of the old virtues have been lost becasue the temptation is to ladle it all on thick - suspense ... boom! run! gag! senitmental bit ... Boom! suspense .. 

RTD went way over the top with the emotional manipulation and shit plots. But  Moffat is equally manipulative with the suspense and horror elements - fine if they a part of decent plot - but often it seems they're jsut there for effect - the persecution of rory and amy in this weeks episode being a case in the point - 'its messing with our minds!' yes but why? To what effect? - well to create a scary scenario that is irrelevent to the plot. 

Alos annoying is the clever dicking about with over complex story arcs and stuff left unexplained (the silence two parter especially) - it might please the spods but it annoys the fuck out of me (and - I suspect - plenty of casual viewers as well).

Now I know people always bang on about 'blink' - but whats interesting about that episode was that it was a well told, self contained story, with a clever resolution  - and the CGI, whizz bang locations and OTT action sequences were absent or minimal. The plot should be central and all the special effects, thrills, spills, one liners etc should serve the plot - not the other way around.   

Finally - to get over my annoyance with the abortion of the theme tune, I mute the telly and play the john pertwee era theme instead. A far more satisfying audio visual expericene which I recommend to all.


----------



## scooter (May 15, 2011)

Actually I always thought it was better having the doctor as an older "mad professor" type character - like doc out of Back to the Future. All the ones up to and including Tom Baker were like this. Not so keen since he became a potential love interest storyline.


----------



## Balbi (May 15, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Some good stuff in that episode - the uncle and auntie characters were great. Far much spod-tastic mumbo-jumbo though. Also too much unexplained - what was this 'house' thing?* Why did it want to torture amy and rory? Just cos it was a wrongun?**
> The thrills and spills and scares were laddled on very thick - but can we please, just for once, have a strightforward, well told dramatic story?



* Like a hermit crab or an sea anemonae, when Uncle and Auntie introduced the Doctor to House he said 'hard shell, big oogly thing in the middle' which House agreed with.

** Rory told House it wouldn't kill them instantly because it wouldn't be any fun, House told them to run and toyed with them. So yeah, wrongun.

And the spodtastic mumbo jumbo wasn't such if you're slavishly obsessed


----------



## hawk007 (May 15, 2011)

I didnt see the vid but its shit.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 15, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> The naysyaers can say what they like but at least Straczynski knew where he was going


 
To a really shit fifth series?


----------



## Stigmata (May 15, 2011)

Nine Bob Note said:


> To a really shit fifth series?


 
The Fall of Centauri Prime was one of the best episodes ever, and that was in the 5th series


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

Was the villain called House because House is a rival doctor on telly? There was no other particular reason for him to be called House, he was not actually disguised as a house or anything. 

I liked the fact that it was not made clear whether old and mad Rory was just an illusion or if House did actually manipulate time to make and then un-make him.


----------



## Augie March (May 15, 2011)

I thought it was called House as a reference to the Tardis being the Doctor's house.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 15, 2011)

Really don't see what the fuss is about, it was an OK episode, nothing more


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

Oh, and I liked 'The Corsair' as a nom de temps for a Timelord. I'm sure a thousand keyboards are hammering out Corsair fanfic as we speak.


----------



## magneze (May 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Really don't see what the fuss is about, it was an OK episode, nothing more


Yep, I preferred the early ones with the mystery rather than the last two.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 15, 2011)

Might write one myself, Santino. I'm thinking a sexy Timelady keeps getting into space scrapes resulting in clothes being at a minimum, exposing the tattoo on her body to good effect 

Also, she gets it on with Pond and Song.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

Is it set in South London? A Vauxhall Corsair sounds somehow right.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2011)

Santino said:


> *Was the villain called House because House* is a rival doctor on telly? There was no other particular reason for him to be called House, he was not actually disguised as a house or anything.
> 
> I liked the fact that it was not made clear whether old and mad Rory was just an illusion or if House did actually manipulate time to make and then un-make him.





> Further, as has been hinted at in recent releases, modern Gallifreyans are ‘woven’ in great genetic looms. Here Platt takes it upon himself to flesh out the workings of this system; in fact, a key element of his plot depends upon it. At its simplest, each House has a loom, and each loom is allowed to have a maximum of forty-five ‘cousins’ in existence at any given time. Each cousin is then capable of regenerating twelve times and thus living for millennia, meaning that it is only in the rarest of circumstances – i.e. when after thousands of years a cousin finally reaches the end of his thirteenth life – that the loom will weave a new cousin. Now because Gallifreyans are woven more or less fully-grown – hence the oversized loomhouses, designed as such to make their young feel small - the ‘children’ of Gallifrey are then put through years of ‘brain-buffing



?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Might write one myself, Santino. I'm thinking a sexy Timelady keeps getting into space scrapes resulting in clothes being at a minimum, exposing the tattoo on her body to good effect
> 
> Also, she gets it on with Pond and Song.


 
I'd be constantly using my time twiddling powers to replay the bit where I was in the vinegars with amy. Over and over.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 15, 2011)

The looms are presumably not going to be allowed anywhere canon, as they preclude a fourteenth doctor.


----------



## emanymton (May 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Really don't see what the fuss is about, it was an OK episode, nothing more


 
Yep, nothing special at all.


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

I'm thinking what my Timelord name would be now.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2011)

El Guapo


----------



## Gromit (May 15, 2011)

You are all wrong. It was called H.O.U.S.E.

But unlike the T.A.R.D.I.S. we have yet to be told what the letters mean. That will be revealed in The Doctors Wife 2, The Wrath of H.O.U.S.E.


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

What twist?


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

Home Of Unholy Silence Entities


----------



## Gromit (May 15, 2011)

Santino said:


> What twist?


 
That the woman was the TARDIS. They didn't hold onto it for long but it was supposed to be a surprise twist.

Was trying not to spoiler it but its had plenty of coverage on here now.


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

Gromit said:


> That the woman was the TARDIS. They didn't hold onto it for long but it was supposed to be a surprise twist.
> 
> Was trying not to spoiler it but its had plenty of coverage on here now.



I didn't think it was even supposed to be a mystery. We, the audience, just knew in advance of the characters. Perhaps children wouldn't have got it, I'm not sure.


----------



## strung out (May 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Really don't see what the fuss is about, it was an OK episode, nothing more


 


emanymton said:


> Yep, nothing special at all.


 
combination of gorgeous aesthetics, tight dialogue and a very original concept imo. there were one or two weaknesses, such as the unnecessary sentimentality at the end with the 'death' of the tardis, but all in all i thought it was a very strong episode. right up there with vincent and the doctor from last season, which was another one of my favourites.


----------



## fogbat (May 15, 2011)

Santino said:


> I didn't think it was even supposed to be a mystery. We, the audience, just knew in advance of the characters. Perhaps children wouldn't have got it, I'm not sure.


 
This. It was pretty much explicitly stated immediately.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 15, 2011)

The Dr Who Confidential on BBC3 (just now) has Gaiman on it.


----------



## strung out (May 15, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> The Dr Who Confidential on BBC3 (just now) has Gaiman on it.


 
longer version broadcast yesterday is available on iplayer


----------



## DexterTCN (May 15, 2011)

Ah cool.  Can't watch it just now...Lady Gaga build up just coming on that's why I had it on.  Will def watch it later though, cheers.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 15, 2011)

strung out said:


> combination of gorgeous aesthetics, tight dialogue and a very original concept imo. there were one or two weaknesses, such as the unnecessary sentimentality at the end with the 'death' of the tardis, but all in all i thought it was a very strong episode. right up there with vincent and the doctor from last season, which was another one of my favourites.


 
Agreed. Ah, Gaiman and the TARDIS interior. My inner geek is satisfied.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 15, 2011)

"You say you want a TARDIS episode? Fine, here's a damn TARDIS episode. Not only are people running around in TARDIS corridors but the TARDIS is a main character _at the same time_ and is also a woman with bosoms. There's even a swimming pool reference. Happy now, internet?"


----------



## fen_boy (May 15, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> "You say you want a TARDIS episode? Fine, here's a damn TARDIS episode. Not only are people running around in TARDIS corridors but the TARDIS is a main character _at the same time_ and is also a woman with bosoms. There's even a swimming pool reference. Happy now, internet?"



We even put a TARDIS in your TARDIS.


----------



## Santino (May 15, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> We even put a TARDIS in your TARDIS.


 
You mean TARDIS on TARDIS action. The ultimate slashfic.


----------



## stuff_it (May 15, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> We even put a TARDIS in your TARDIS.


 
lol


----------



## fen_boy (May 15, 2011)

Actually at one point there was a TARDIS in a TARDIS in a TARDIS.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 15, 2011)

A TARDIS materialised inside another TARDIS (or was it outside?) in one of the old stories, specifically "Time Flight".  It was said at the time that it was a risky thing to do.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 15, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> Actually at one point there was a TARDIS in a TARDIS in a TARDIS.


 
There was some Tom Baker episode with infinite TARDIS recursion I think....


----------



## stuff_it (May 15, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> A TARDIS materialised inside another TARDIS (or was it outside?) in one of the old stories, specifically "Time Flight".  It was said at the time that it was a risky thing to do.


 
Risk is relative...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There was some Tom Baker episode with infinite TARDIS recursion I think....


 
the master parked his massive throbbing TARDIS in the doctors


----------



## danny la rouge (May 16, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Gaiman delivered for real.


Really?  I thought it was pretty average.  Certainly not worthy of all the praise.  

It was also the first time for me that Smith's performance was ropey.  The bit where the Doctor and Karen MacDonald were staring at the expanse of the Tardis bits.  He was finding it hard to hold his expression, and you could see him waiting for the scene to end.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There was some Tom Baker episode with infinite TARDIS recursion I think....


 
Actually I think it was Castrovavla, the first Davison episode. 
I loved the tardis getting darker and darker as it went in on itself. 
There was quite a bit in 'in tardis' action in Davisons time. You got to see bedrooms, corridors and all sorts. I may be dreaming but, wasn't there a sort of swimming pool thing in Castrovlava too?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2011)

the swimming pool has been around for ages

it's deffo  in The Invasion of Time  which actually  has  a ton  of tardis exploration... which revels  that  aparently  the inside of the tardis  looks  really rather like the inside of a large warehouse

and yes  the davison era  did tend to use  the  tardis  a lot...  abuse it  a bit too   Frontios is a particularly  piss poor example


----------



## fen_boy (May 16, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> ooh that's a good review. I wonder if I will finally be impressed.


 
Were you impressed?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 16, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the swimming pool has been around for ages
> 
> it's deffo  in The Invasion of Time  which actually  has  a ton  of tardis exploration... which revels  that  aparently  the inside of the tardis  looks  really rather like the inside of a large warehouse
> 
> and yes  the davison era  did tend to use  the  tardis  a lot...  abuse it  a bit too   Frontios is a particularly  piss poor example


 
Ah I have invasion of time on DVD but I don't think I have watched all of it. Can't remember it from my youth. 
Actually maybe I can. Is that where Leela leaves after falling in love in a split second?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2011)

i felt  the one thing that would be better   would  be  if  it  was  played slower  with the emotions  between doctor  and tardis  played  as less visible  and a bit more unspoken

maybe it's because of the  short  episode length but  every episode  just seems to be on fucking  methamphetamine.


----------



## Santino (May 16, 2011)

Aha ha ha ha, in episode 2 the Doctor said 'say hello to David Frost for me' and in this episode House was played by Michael Sheen was in Frost in Frost/Nixon.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ah I have invasion of time on DVD but I don't think I have watched all of it. Can't remember it from my youth.
> Actually maybe I can. Is that where Leela leaves after falling in love in a split second?


 
yep.  she wanted to be killed off but  the big wigs vetoed it  as  being  kid unfriendly.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 16, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> Were you impressed?


 Impressed? Not really. 
. It was a good solid episode, the way doctor who should always be but rarely is. 
Nothing super special and pivotal as billed. Had a big song and dance not been made about it I would probably gone in expecting something ground breaking. 
Was a bit drunk so I might watch it again


----------



## strung out (May 16, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ah I have invasion of time on DVD but I don't think I have watched all of it. Can't remember it from my youth.
> Actually maybe I can. Is that where Leela leaves after falling in love in a split second?


 
invasion of time starts off well, but the second half is a bit shit really


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2011)

the tardis  as a person   is  a good idea  in theory  but  i'm really  not  sure about how it was handled.   i would  have  probably  gone for  something  a bit more aloof  and  distant  but  yet  with some deep unspoken connection to the doctor.  the whole  out of time  conversations  were less  a distant  echo of  future events  and  more like what would happen if mrs cake  smoked crack


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> maybe it's because of the  short  episode length but  every episode  just seems to be on fucking  methamphetamine.


 
This - they feel they have to laddle all the thrills and spills on extra thick rather then just telling a good story well - and allowing it space to breath.


----------



## Santino (May 16, 2011)

If this story had been done in the early 1980s, over six half-hour episodes, the entire first part would have been the Doctor explaining about the box, then a lot of slow dialogue with Uncle and Aunt, and then a few minutes before the end the TARDIS lands on the strange planet, a companion wanders off and suddenly SEES SOMETHING TERRIFYING and that's it for another week. Then at the beginning of episode 2 it turns out that the TERRIFYING thing was the Ood but he didn't hurt them anyway.


----------



## stuff_it (May 16, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the swimming pool has been around for ages
> 
> it's deffo  in The Invasion of Time  which actually  has  a ton  of tardis exploration... which revels  that  aparently  the inside of the tardis  looks  really rather like the inside of a large warehouse
> 
> and yes  the davison era  did tend to use  the  tardis  a lot...  abuse it  a bit too   Frontios is a particularly  piss poor example



Hmm, extrapolate the ages of the kids that would have watched that and you have a great alternate explanation for the warehouse rave scene


----------



## strung out (May 16, 2011)

Santino said:


> If this story had been done in the early 1980s, over six half-hour episodes, the entire first part would have been the Doctor explaining about the box, then a lot of slow dialogue with Uncle and Aunt, and then a few minutes before the end the TARDIS lands on the strange planet, a companion wanders off and suddenly SEES SOMETHING TERRIFYING and that's it for another week. Then at the beginning of episode 2 it turns out that the TERRIFYING thing was the Ood but he didn't hurt them anyway.


 
spot on.

i understand the nostalgia for a series of 4/6 short episodes with quaint cliffhangers to get you watching for 44 weeks of the year, but those days are long gone. stories nowadays are more polished, tighter and generally far better quality for the amount of screen time you get. i'm still a massive fan of the old series and often spend afternoons watching even the poorer classic episodes, but it's incredible how much better the series is now compared to a lot of old Doctor Who. in the olden days, you would be lucky to get two smashers a season with the rest being loveable filler, but with modern Who, the poor episodes are far more noticeable for their rarity. there's a reason that the majority of modern tv sci-fi is packaged in series of 10-20 45 minute long episodes, and Doctor Who would really suffer for stretching out its stories over more episodes.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 16, 2011)

strung out said:


> the poor episodes are far more noticeable for their rarity.


 
you know something.  i really  don't agree.  i think a lot of new who  is mediocre at best.  it's all very flashy  and wizz bang  but my god is a lot of it  forgettable.  the effects are good  and the acting works   but  my god  do i struggle  to remember  stories.  i remember  moments  but not  plots.

maybe  it's  a slight case of the memory cheats  but   for  all the  dross  in old  who  (and there was a lot of dross) there are  real  stand out stories  that  feel  like  they had proper narrative     not  just  a premise  held together  with  running shouting  and  cgi.  ok  perhaps i'm  being a little  over critical  but   i just feel that most  stories  are never given time to develop.  unfortunately the most memorable  episodes of new who tend  to be  the  stinkers.


----------



## strung out (May 16, 2011)

imo, the beauty of new who is that pretty much all of the episodes are _someone's_ favourite story. even Love and Monsters (the one with the abzorbaloff) has got quite a big cult following among old and new Who fans, despite it getting massive amounts of criticism. in old Who, you'd never get someone saying Timelash or the Twin Dilemma is their favourite story, but nowadays each episode gets a fair amount of love and praise no matter how bad some people think it is.


----------



## CNT36 (May 16, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Actually I think it was Castrovavla, the first Davison episode.
> I loved the tardis getting darker and darker as it went in on itself.
> There was quite a bit in 'in tardis' action in Davisons time. You got to see bedrooms, corridors and all sorts. I may be dreaming but, wasn't there a sort of swimming pool thing in Castrovlava too?


 
Logopolis. The burning rooms up for thrust bit was from Castrovlava. I know they burnt up the zero room but they may have used the swimming pool to. Logopolis had quite a few scenes set in the cloister room and Tegan wondering around the Tardis interior.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 16, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> Logopolis. The burning rooms up for thrust bit was from Castrovlava. I know they burnt up the zero room but they may have used the swimming pool to. Logopolis had quite a few scenes set in the cloister room and Tegan wondering around the Tardis interior.


 
Oh really? I can't really remember then. Wasn't logopolis on a dusty stone planet of intellectuals? I thought all the tardis in tardis stuff was on earth. I must be thinking of all the zero room nonsense


----------



## krtek a houby (May 16, 2011)

I liked Logopolis and Castrovalva, they were Bidmead stories, iirc. I think Logopolis was the first time we heard the cloister bell.


----------



## belboid (May 16, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Oh, the one thing in that episode which worries me intensely: the Corsair. Moffat sneaking into canon that Time Lords can switch gender is a very, very bad thing.


 
intersting quote from Gaiman n his Guardian Q&A thing just now, asked about this, he responds, quite reasonably: "The odd bit here is that for me it had been definitively settled when Doctor Eleven tried to figure out whether or not he was a girl."

Also, he says House deffo survived in his original script.

A very good episode, maybe not the world shattering genius some had got rather over-excited about, but plenty of wit, charm, action, solid plot and (even given danny's reasonable criticism of a wee bit of Matt) some great performances. Not bad going at all.


----------



## magneze (May 16, 2011)

Best line was Amy's "Did you wish _really really_ hard?"


----------



## danny la rouge (May 16, 2011)

magneze said:


> Best line was Amy's "Did you wish _really really_ hard?"


That was good, but my favourite was "Biting's good; it's like kissing, but there's a winner".


----------



## magneze (May 16, 2011)

Oh yes.


----------



## belboid (May 16, 2011)

curse you danny, beat me to it

Are all people like this? So much more bigger on the inside?  Was rather good, too


----------



## strung out (May 16, 2011)

new 5th doctor story airs in 10 minutes on radio 4 extra, if anyone's interested.


----------



## CNT36 (May 16, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh really? I can't really remember then. Wasn't logopolis on a dusty stone planet of intellectuals? I thought all the tardis in tardis stuff was on earth. I must be thinking of all the zero room nonsense



It starts off on Earth. He aims to materialize around a real Police Box to get the correct measurements in order to fix the real dimensions to fix the chameleon circuit but its actually the Master's Tardis. He then heads to Logopolis with the measurements. It was also the first Doctor Who VHS I ever owned.



strung out said:


> new 5th doctor story airs in 10 minutes on radio 4 extra, if anyone's interested.


 
Very interested. Missed but its repeated at midnight. When did the channel become 4 extra?


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2011)

about 3 weeks ago, i think.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 16, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> That was good, but my favourite was "Biting's good; it's like kissing, but there's a winner".


 
There was a very similar line in Jekyll, but in that case referring to killing people and sex.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 16, 2011)

Didn't Gaiman say that his episode was an oblique semi-sequel to some episode from the 60s? Which one was it sequelling, then?


----------



## belboid (May 16, 2011)

he talks about The Most Dangerous Game, an eighties audio drama thing, in the Guardian Q&A I mentioned earlier


----------



## strung out (May 16, 2011)

hmmm, no idea.

the pirate episode was a sort of prequel to The Smugglers, but i can't think what this last one would have been.


----------



## scifisam (May 17, 2011)

You know what, I think I'm going to have to admit that I just don't get Doctor Who. From the moment that Charles Aznevour came on screen accompanied by an extra from Pirates of the Carribbean, I was lost.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 17, 2011)

I watched it again last night. Mr Who is becoming Bill Nye Jr. 
The end was way too 'magicy' "Oh I'm dead, and now I just flow back in or something, and we just win. The end".
Loved the two left foot guy and most of Sexys work. 

Also why did the Doctor start gasping when the air went? He doesn't have to breath if he doesn't want to.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 17, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Also why did the Doctor start gasping when the air went? He doesn't have to breath if he doesn't want to.


He doesn't?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 17, 2011)

he  can go with out it  for  a good while
perhaps he was just expelling all the air  to prevent an embolism


----------



## DexterTCN (May 17, 2011)

He was fucking with House's mind.


----------



## London_Calling (May 17, 2011)

So the Tardis is female, and the Doctor spends most of his life inside . . . 

Reminds me of that old Woody Allen joke about the last woman he was inside was the Statue of Liberty.


----------



## Santino (May 17, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> So the Tardis is female, and the Doctor spends most of his life inside . . .
> 
> Reminds me of that old Woody Allen joke about the last woman he was inside was the Statue of Liberty.


 
Like Jerry Van Dyke getting inside a car which is also his own mother.


----------



## London_Calling (May 17, 2011)

I never got further than Dick . . . .


----------



## London_Calling (May 17, 2011)

. . . and I, somewhat belatedly, discover Jerry is in fact the younger brother . . . _way_ out of my knowledge area here . . .


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 17, 2011)

elevendayempire said:


> Didn't Gaiman say that his episode was an oblique semi-sequel to some episode from the 60s? Which one was it sequelling, then?


 
Was it just the thing about calling it "The Doctor's Wife", previously used as a fake title to smoke out leakers?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 17, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> So the Tardis is female, and the Doctor spends most of his life inside . . . .


 
No, the Tardis is a Tardis and was put into a female body in this episode.


----------



## Santino (May 17, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> No, the Tardis is a Tardis and was put into a female body in this episode.


 
Although it was pretty clear that the TARDIS was sort of female even before she was put in a woman's body, although since she exists in all of space and time simultaneously, this could be the effect of going-to-be-put in a female body.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 17, 2011)

Santino said:


> Although it was pretty clear that the TARDIS was sort of female even before she was put in a woman's body, although since she exists in all of space and time simultaneously, this could be the effect of going-to-be-put in a female body.


 
People call ships and cars 'girl' and say stuff like 'she canny handle it captain'. 

Doesn't have to make it actually a woman.


----------



## Santino (May 17, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> People call ships and cars 'girl' and say stuff like 'she canny handle it captain'.
> 
> Doesn't have to make it actually a woman.


 
So? I think the script made it clear that the TARDIS is to be thought of as being more female than male, and this having been the case even before she was put in a woman's body.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 17, 2011)

Santino said:


> So? I think the script made it clear that the TARDIS is to be thought of as being more female than male, and this having been the case even before she was put in a woman's body.


 
No more than a boat.


----------



## belboid (May 17, 2011)

I thought that the Tardis, like a Time Lord, is essentially (human) gender free, and can adopt either human form. It would have been funny seeing an Uncle type figure saying to the Doc "you call me 'Sexy'"


----------



## Stigmata (May 17, 2011)

That other Doctor Who producer is a bit of a fox isn't she


----------



## Pseudopsycho (May 19, 2011)




----------



## gsv (May 19, 2011)

Is it now cannon that the Doc can regenerate into female form? Settles a bit of a long-running debate if it is!

GS(v)


----------



## magneze (May 19, 2011)

Yep, the last episode confirmed it. On a separate note, apparently the rapture happens at the same time as the next episode. Coincidence?


----------



## strung out (May 19, 2011)

it was confirmed a while ago that he could regenerate into a woman, when he checked whether he was a man or a woman upon freshly regenerating into matt smith i think


----------



## Jenerys (May 19, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


>


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 19, 2011)

gsv said:


> Is it now cannon that the Doc can regenerate into female form? Settles a bit of a long-running debate if it is!
> 
> GS(v)


 
It's been cannon that he regenerated several times before the series ever began and it has been cannon that he didn't. It wasn't even regeneration the first two times. Romana could regenerate, or rather change bodies, at will into whatever she liked. There are loads of things like this. 
Doesn't it specifically mention something about 'female' timelords in a few cases? 

The only way to make Dr Who make sense is to assume the Dr tells a few porkies just for fun. 
Though things like the Dalek continuity for instance just simply don't work.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2011)

with a time travelling alien story the doors are wide open. Just say 'alternate timeline' and do any number of retcons and reinventions and that. Just like doctor who.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> with a time travelling alien story the doors are wide open. Just say 'alternate timeline' and do any number of retcons and reinventions and that. Just like doctor who.


 
Thats how I figure it, and the timelord stuff is just Mr who mucking about or forgetting stuff.


----------



## gsv (May 19, 2011)

When was he in the KLF?

GS(v)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 19, 2011)

gsv said:


> When was he in the KLF?
> 
> GS(v)


 
Do you remember Gary in the Tardis? 




It's cannon.


----------



## killer b (May 19, 2011)

i have that somewhere. it's fucking great.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 19, 2011)

Canon, ffs.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 19, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Canon, ffs.


 
No I mean it's Cannon. 




boom


----------



## gsv (May 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> No I mean it's Cannon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Corrected it for you.

GS(v)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 20, 2011)

What's Tommy Cannon doing these days?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 20, 2011)

Apparently, for a few pence he will turn up with Bobby Ball at your church and deliver an inspiring message about the power of faith, and how finding God healed the strains in their professional relationship as straight man and comic.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 20, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Apparently, for a few pence he will turn up with Bobby Ball at your church and deliver an inspiring message about the power of faith, and how finding God healed the strains in their professional relationship as straight man and comic.


 
Didn't do much to heal his carrier though. 
I though it was Ball that did all the God waffle.


----------



## gsv (May 20, 2011)

Carrier? Did you mean courrier?

GS(v)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 20, 2011)

gsv said:


> Carrier? Did you mean courrier?
> 
> GS(v)


 
I meant his cougar. It got quite poorly when they moved to crawley.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2011)

early form nesteen?


----------



## stuff_it (May 21, 2011)

Later every bloody week, we going to end up with a post-watershed episode?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2011)

I bet an internet fiver this vat conciousness is a proto-nesteen. 

Echoes of The Thing coming up



> I know I'm human. And if you were all these things, then you'd just attack me right now, so some of you are still human. This thing doesn't want to show itself, it wants to hide inside an imitation. It'll fight if it has to, but it's vulnerable out in the open. If it takes us over, then it has no more enemies, nobody left to kill it. And then it's won.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 21, 2011)

I'll take that bet. The nestene is a being of pure conciousness that happens to inhabit plastic; the gunk does something very different (although I missed the full explanation because it was gabbled over intrusive music in the way that Who does so well).


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2011)

Brief heart in mouth bit when doc fell from the tower. Falling from a tower was what done the good basker in.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 21, 2011)

Anyway, this all offers a nice easy resolution to the Impossible Astronaut death: ganger Doc gets it from spacesuit, move along, nothing to see here. 

The sympathetic link between Rory and Jennifer needs explaining. They've only just met.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 21, 2011)

Now that, to my mind, was a good episode.  Much better than last week.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Anyway, this all offers a nice easy resolution to the Impossible Astronaut death: ganger Doc gets it from spacesuit, move along, nothing to see here.
> 
> The sympathetic link between Rory and Jennifer needs explaining. They've only just met.


 
rory has an already documented affinity for doomed women. He is a bleeding heart liberal.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 21, 2011)

Is this bet on, then? I'll give you 6-1, so your £5 gets you £30 if the Nestene are mentioned next week in conjunction with the gloop.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2011)

I'll take those odds, but if I am wrong I will renege on the bet.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 21, 2011)

You're on. I'll pay up, though. Noblesse oblige.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 21, 2011)

Shite. Not worth a double episode, though I guess they had to because of the location budget.


----------



## binka (May 21, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> The sympathetic link between Rory and Jennifer needs explaining. They've only just met.


 rory was an auton


----------



## stuff_it (May 21, 2011)

binka said:


> rory was an auton


 
This, pretty much same thing happened to Rory except he woke up as a Roman instead of as a Northerner trapped on an acid-filled island.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 21, 2011)

Rory followed Jennifer into the bogs, alive with friendly concern, before he had any idea that she was a replicant.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 21, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Rory followed Jennifer into the bogs, alive with friendly concern, before he had any idea that she was a replicant.


 
Either fellow autons 'just know' or writers don't quite know (how to write).


----------



## rollinder (May 21, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Rory followed Jennifer into the bogs, alive with friendly concern, before he had any idea that she was a replicant.


 
he went into automatic Nurse needing to comfort distressed patient mode didn't he.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Shite. Not worth a double episode, though I guess they had to because of the location budget.


 
you really are a miserable bastard, as Who goes it was good and if next week delivers it will be great. Fuck off with your yellow hair and your nans bike.


----------



## gsv (May 21, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Anyway, this all offers a nice easy resolution to the Impossible Astronaut death: ganger Doc gets it from spacesuit, move along, nothing to see here.


We'll end up with half a season where the Doctor in the Tardis isn't _the_ Doctor in the Tardis. Like the 1990s Spider man clone saga.

GS(v)


----------



## krtek a houby (May 21, 2011)

Much better than the pirates bunkum


----------



## invisibleplanet (May 21, 2011)

Best ever. Srsly superb two-parter 
Well done!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 21, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> Best ever



Ecen post-reboot, better than Blink? Empty Child? Pandorica Opens? It's not even the best one this series.


----------



## invisibleplanet (May 21, 2011)

Yes, even better than. 

I loved the castle setting, the sci-gothic frankensteinian creations, the class/identity tensions between human and ganger, etc.


----------



## PlaidDragon (May 22, 2011)

I enjoyed this one a lot. Very solid storyline, great dilemma (the Gangers have a right to be alive, but they can't go back the humans' families!), and above all, the possibility of seeing an angry Doc next week!

Apart from The Impossible Astronaut, the best of the series so far!


----------



## strung out (May 22, 2011)

i enjoyed it, though there did seem to be quite a few bits of storyline ripped off from things like BSG etc


----------



## stuff_it (May 22, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> I enjoyed this one a lot. Very solid storyline, great dilemma (the Gangers have a right to be alive, but they can't go back the humans' families!), and above all, the possibility of seeing an angry Doc next week!
> 
> Apart from The Impossible Astronaut, the best of the series so far!


 
Hmm.....River Song's 'I once dated a Nestine duplicate' gets a bit more interesting too......


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 22, 2011)

Some meh. Some "wow". Just looked like the 70s where they'd film in an old castle or a quarry to save money. Music diminished the scary to a ridiculous degree.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 22, 2011)

interesting episode,wonder if they will explain why they are pumping acid to the mainland from a monastery.I'm definitely enjoying this series so far, have to say that I doubt that this is any thing to do with the nestene as that was a form of living plastic and the flesh is organic.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (May 22, 2011)

so can anyone tell me why he's now wearing the blue bow tie and if there is _any_ significance (apart to fuck over people who watched the dreamlord ep) ???

Oh and I was def. sat there going Nestene


----------



## Leafster (May 22, 2011)

So is this plastic doppelganger going to be around for a couple of hundred years to eventually be shot by Amy's daughter (the young River Song) on the edge of a lake in the US?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Hmm.....River Song's 'I once dated a Nestine duplicate' gets a bit more interesting too......




she did?

Further fuel to my theory! I hope you are feeling flush Maurice because that 35 quid is mine


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2011)

is moffat old enough for pertwee to have been 'his' doctor I wonder. Not because that was the first appearance of the autons like, he's clearly a fan who will have watched retrospectively but in the way that he likes to write stories where the ordinary becomes terrfying (shadows, stone statues). And the nesteen mannequins are a similar idea


----------



## Stigmata (May 22, 2011)

Leafster said:


> So is this plastic doppelganger going to be around for a couple of hundred years to eventually be shot by Amy's daughter (the young River Song) on the edge of a lake in the US?


 
It remains to be seen whether the ganger will be a bona fide Time Lord, complete with regenerative ability


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 22, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> is moffat old enough for pertwee to have been 'his' doctor I wonder. Not because that was the first appearance of the autons like, he's clearly a fan who will have watched retrospectively but in the way that he likes to write stories where the ordinary becomes terrfying (shadows, stone statues). And the nesteen mannequins are a similar idea



Oh aye. He's 8 or 9 years older than me, and mine was Tom Baker.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 22, 2011)

having the ganger being the shot doc is too easy way out.


----------



## Augie March (May 22, 2011)

I concur with the above. It's far too obvious and I'm betting by the end of the next episode that this will be quashed by the Ganger Doc biting the bullet.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 23, 2011)

Leafster said:


> So is this plastic doppelganger going to be around for a couple of hundred years to eventually be shot by Amy's daughter (the young River Song) on the edge of a lake in the US?


 
When the doctor (as Tennant) first meets River she says he looks younger. By no stretch of the the imagination does the new young fop (I forget his name) look significantly older than Tennant. Therefore there must be at least one more (older looking) regeneration before the doctor finally dies for good. 

I'm not sure why River hasn't mentioned this.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 23, 2011)

nah  that  will be emotionally older  not phyically older kinda  tosh


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 23, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> nah  that  will be emotionally older  not phyically older kinda  tosh


 
In which case River can confirm that she does not see the doctor in anything other than two regeneration's.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 23, 2011)

although it  does kinda limit  river  to  this doc 

except they  might  just  do  thing  where  she new a future doc  but  couldn't  say anything about it  because  of spoilers  and  as  she  hasn't met that future doc   again in her timeline she doesn't know if time has been altered


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 23, 2011)

Altered time and reset buttons.
Bah.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 23, 2011)

it's sorta par the course with sci fi

the new doctor who has kinda stopped trying to even bother


----------



## belboid (May 23, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> When the doctor (as Tennant) first meets River she says he looks younger. By no stretch of the the imagination does the new young fop (I forget his name) look significantly older than Tennant. Therefore there must be at least one more (older looking) regeneration before the doctor finally dies for good.
> 
> I'm not sure why River hasn't mentioned this.


 
eh?  What drivel.  you seem to misunderstand one of the major premises of the show



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> In which case River can confirm that she does not see the doctor in anything other than two regeneration's.


 
why on earth would she?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 23, 2011)

Watched this yesterday and rather liked it, much prefered it to the pirates episode. Reminded me of a number of other scifi things i.e. BSG, Kirk's double in ST, Will Riker's 'brother' in ST:TNG, and the alternate Harry Kim in ST:Voyager, however that didn't detract from my enjoyment.

Not a great episode but a solid, good one.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 23, 2011)

belboid said:


> why on earth would she?


 
well in less mysterious scifi stuff  she might  comment  like  "but he was a different regeneration when i first met him"  or  talk about  what she knows  about the future  so they can try to figure out the mystery

all her  spoilers stuff   mainly seem  to  work  so  the writers can make it up as they go along.  it's  not  terrible   but  it feels  a little  odd  as altering  the flow of time is what the whole fucking show is about     blinovitch* withholding  




*fuck me i wish i didn't remeber that off by hear


----------



## belboid (May 23, 2011)

Mattyboy could fall under a bus tomorrow, they have to keep their options open.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 23, 2011)

that's the problem with the rules they have given themselves   

frankly  i think they should  go with BTTF style  time paradoxes  

shift happens

the whole  rules  stuff is  pritty much out the window  any how   the  whole  backwards time line thing  just feels  fucking mad    trying to have rules in a ruleless universe


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 23, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> that's the problem with the rules they have given themselves
> 
> frankly  i think they should  go with BTTF style  time paradoxes


 
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. 
But without people slowly fading from photographs.

I'm pretty sure in old who they said on a few occasions that you couldn't change time. Then of course they said you could change time, like in genesis of the daleks. 
They also said that you could not go out of space and time, but they did that a few times too.


----------



## Santino (May 23, 2011)

They're trying to explain 11-dimensional concepts to four-dimensional beings.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 23, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
> But without people slowly fading from photographs.
> 
> I'm pretty sure in old who they said on a few occasions that you couldn't change time. Then of course they said you could change time, like in genesis of the daleks.
> They also said that you could not go out of space and time, but they did that a few times too.


 
one great  bit  was in  pyramids of mars  where  they actually  do  a BTTF  style   jump  to   a waste land  1980s  after  fucking about with mummies  in 1911


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 23, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> a waste land  1980s



A you sure that was an alternative reality? Sounds like the reality we experienced.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 23, 2011)

i remember the 80's   i even enjoyed a lot of it. i don't think the  planet was reduced to a desolate waste land by Sutekh


----------



## stuff_it (May 23, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> she did?
> 
> Further fuel to my theory! I hope you are feeling flush Maurice because that 35 quid is mine


 
In 'The Pandorica Opens' IIRC


----------



## AverageJoe (May 23, 2011)

She said it in The Big Bang


----------



## strung out (May 27, 2011)

heh


----------



## Augie March (May 27, 2011)

There was a two page feature in the Standard today which seemed to have a spoiler as it's headline. I turned the pages quickly to avoid the content but I can't erase the headline from my mind. Bastards. 

This is of course what you get for picking up crappy free newspapers on the train.


----------



## andy2002 (May 27, 2011)

Augie March said:


> There was a two page feature in the Standard today which seemed to have a spoiler as it's headline. I turned the pages quickly to avoid the content but I can't erase the headline from my mind. Bastards.
> 
> This is of course what you get for picking up crappy free newspapers on the train.


 
I've just gone and read the same article on line. It wasn't a total shock to be honest...


----------



## Augie March (May 28, 2011)

It wasn't a massive surprise no (if it is true), but it was rather spoilerific to be splashing it across two pages in a free London rag.

They didn't even use the spoiler code!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 28, 2011)

Augie March said:


> There was a two page feature in the Standard today which seemed to have a spoiler as it's headline.


The thing to remember about tabloid headlines is that if there's a question in the headline, the answer is usually "no".

"Is the World Going to Explode When We Switch on the Large Hadron Collider?"  - _No_.
"Will the Doctor Finally Meet His End This Week?" - _No_.
"Do We Actually Reveal Anything in this Article?" - _No_.


----------



## invisibleplanet (May 28, 2011)

OMG!


----------



## stuff_it (May 28, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> OMG!


 
+1


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 28, 2011)

Goodness. Pirates aside, this series is delivering in spades.


----------



## al (May 28, 2011)

<head explodes> 

flibber....

didn't think the episode was really that amazing until the last 5 mins...


----------



## claphamboy (May 28, 2011)

Didn't expect that ending - fucking brilliant!


----------



## Greebo (May 28, 2011)

IMHO crap cliffhanger is crap


----------



## stuff_it (May 28, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Goodness. Pirates aside, this series is delivering in spades.


 
Avast me hearties, I can't Arrrrrrgue with this statement.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 28, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> +1



+2 - great ending plus I thought it was an interesting and thoughtful episode looking at the nature of identity, how we view people etc...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2011)

some grade a gorgonzola moments tbf but other than that ok. no mention of the nesteen


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 28, 2011)

Of course there bloody wasn't, you daft young onion.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2011)

to be continued maurice. I may yet be vindicated


----------



## rollinder (May 28, 2011)

had me going 'OMG they went there, they actually went there' at more than one point 
(had a really horrible feeling last week re where the plot seemed to be going w/ Amy's Schrödinger's pregnancy, & the next time clip of aprent evil clone attacking Amy & backing her against a wall combined with memories of *that* episode of Star Trek....)

not really a spoiler but sort of...



Spoiler: speculation



wondering how the 'other' Doctor apparently waffling about "...Cybermen. Made by Cybermen." will connect with pos massively spoiler looking photo in dwm & offical facebook .(the way things are going with plot twists and official statements being lies, it'll probably turn out to be just a flashback)



The Doctor _knows_ now about them witnessing his future death  because 'Amy' told him accidentally. 
He (IMHO) was testing *her* when pretending to be the 'other' one and lashing out not seeing how similar his ganger was.
How long has she been a duplicate?


Spoiler: more speculation, old but could be a massive spoiler if true



there was speculation that last years big reveal was that Amy wasn't really Amelia Pond but an alien that thought it was



After all that about the Gangers being sacred life and helping/trying to help them live/become human The Doctor just kills her, in cold, cold anger.
Was she just a body/shell with no separate consciousness but linked to Amy's memory/mind?


----------



## stuff_it (May 28, 2011)

Seems very odd, perhaps what ends up happening is that the Megacorp responsible for the gangers irons out the little 'conciousness' teething problem...


----------



## CNT36 (May 28, 2011)

Spoiler: more speculation, old but could be a massive spoiler if true



I think he said Cybermats. Could of been some kind of scan


----------



## spanglechick (May 28, 2011)

It seems most likely that amy was replaced with her ganger when she was disappeared by the silence and ended up in that weird bedroom at the orphanage in episode two. They thought it was going to be really hard to find her, and then they just did, and she was strapped into a thing that could have been part of a ganger-creating machine. I'm going to give that episode another watch, i think.

as an aside - how similar is the flesh to the sontaran technology which they used to clone martha? it was a different colour as i recall, but was the actual clone it created functionally similar (memories etc)?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 28, 2011)

it was fairly good.  although of course they had to go the route of there  not being any  duplicates  by the end  which felt a little  too neat.  they of course drop in the possibility of   the doctor ganger  reassembling itself.


----------



## stuff_it (May 28, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> It seems most likely that amy was replaced with her ganger when she was disappeared by the silence and ended up in that weird bedroom at the orphanage in episode two. They thought it was going to be really hard to find her, and then they just did, and she was strapped into a thing that could have been part of a ganger-creating machine. I'm going to give that episode another watch, i think.
> 
> as an aside - how similar is the flesh to the sontaran technology which they used to clone martha? it was a different colour as i recall, but was the actual clone it created functionally similar (memories etc)?


 
No, that was made clear by her seeing the woman look through the hatch *before* she went into the bedroom.


----------



## killer b (May 29, 2011)

have to say, i'm glad the kids missed it this week (we got back too late, so saw it on iplayer) - it was pretty horrific in places...


----------



## spanglechick (May 29, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> No, that was made clear by her seeing the woman look through the hatch *before* she went into the bedroom.


 
yes - just saw that. now i think it happened just a bit earlier, when she was in the dormitory and kicked the metal bucket and woke up all the silence hanging from the ceiling. there's a jump cut and next thing we see the door is open and she can leave in safety.


----------



## joustmaster (May 29, 2011)

Has Amy being a kid without family and being a bit strange been explained away yet? When doctor says "a long long time" it might mean a good few years..


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 29, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> yes - just saw that. now i think it happened just a bit earlier, when she was in the dormitory and kicked the metal bucket and woke up all the silence hanging from the ceiling. there's a jump cut and next thing we see the door is open and she can leave in safety.


 
err  didn't  it all happen   before that..    there is a threee month gap  between episodes  and  right at the beginning she is asked about  everything  and she says  that   she was pregnant but now isn't


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 29, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> Has Amy being a kid without family and being a bit strange been explained away yet? When doctor says "a long long time" it might mean a good few years..


 
last season


----------



## spanglechick (May 29, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> Has Amy being a kid without family and being a bit strange been explained away yet? When doctor says "a long long time" it might mean a good few years..


 
yes - did you miss the end of the last series? the crack and the pandorica and that stuff? her parents got wiped from existence.


----------



## spanglechick (May 29, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> err  didn't  it all happen   before that..    there is a threee month gap  between episodes  and  right at the beginning she is asked about  everything  and she says  that   she was pregnant but now isn't


 
maybe. less satisfying if it happened completely off camera like that.


----------



## stuff_it (May 29, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> maybe. less satisfying if it happened completely off camera like that.


 
even if it did, there's no reason why we can't be shown it later on....the joys of retconning timetravel and all...


----------



## joustmaster (May 29, 2011)

Oh right yeah. I did watch it. But it seemed to get wiped from my mind..


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 29, 2011)

a good man goes to war trailer 

spolier alert !!

http://madmaninabox.blogspot.com/2011/05/doctor-who-good-man-goes-to-war.html


----------



## CNT36 (May 29, 2011)

Maybe we now know why Amy didn't experience the blinkovitch limitation effect in the big bang. She could of been a Ganger even then. Maybe even an independent one once the universe was gone and the pandorica revived its contents. Or Maybe it was a mistake. The doctor before killing Ganger Amy did say if would be humane as possible. I don't think the Gangers are self aware while someones plugged in. Did the doctor do the shoe thing so that Amy would understand why he didn't notice sooner? The Gangers aren't the same as the Martha clone. She was spotted straight away and was a bit of a shit that needed the original to function.


----------



## Stigmata (May 29, 2011)

rollinder said:


> After all that about the Gangers being sacred life and helping/trying to help them live/become human The Doctor just kills her, in cold, cold anger.
> Was she just a body/shell with no separate consciousness but linked to Amy's memory/mind?


 
Yes, that seems to have been the situation. Very clever, and shows the Doctor as a more calculating figure as he manipulated the events of the story.


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What's Tommy Cannon doing these days?


He married the Auntie of the kid I used to play with who lived along the road when I was about 8.  I thought it important to let you know that.



Maurice Picarda said:


> You're on. I'll pay up, though. Noblesse oblige.


You're going to take his daughter's virginity?!? 



Greebo said:


> IMHO crap cliffhanger is crap


Your face is crap.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 29, 2011)

That's jus primae noctis, isn't it?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2011)

yes. Rather than 'right/obligation of nobility'. The clue is in how the words sound like their descendants.


----------



## strung out (May 29, 2011)

obviously the amy swap/abduction happened at some point between her falling pregnant and then telling the doctor that she isn't pregnant. probably sometime in the three month gap between episodes i reckon. maybe.


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> That's jus primae noctis, isn't it?


 
Or droit du seigneur.  I was being "funny".


----------



## ginger_syn (May 30, 2011)

excellent episode, the let it go move on line made me giggle.


----------



## CNT36 (May 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> obviously the amy swap/abduction happened at some point between her falling pregnant and then telling the doctor that she isn't pregnant. probably sometime in the three month gap between episodes i reckon. maybe.


 
Possibly but if the Tardis was confused I'm sure boots would be.


----------



## magneze (May 30, 2011)

I much prefer the episodes that have a series arc to the self contained ones - they always feel a little pointless.


----------



## Augie March (May 30, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> The doctor before killing Ganger Amy did say if would be humane as possible.



It was rather odd he said that, considering he was about to melt her and she didn't seem to have a clue what was happening. 

If she thought she actually was Amy and the last image in her head was her best friend liquidising her into goo, then it was downright evil as fuck.


----------



## Stigmata (May 30, 2011)

She was Amy, but she was being projected into a fake body. She didn't die or anything, just woke up in that maternity pod or whatever it was.


----------



## strung out (May 30, 2011)

the amy ganger wasn't an independent life form though. it was just a clone that had the real amy 'driving' it


----------



## krtek a houby (May 30, 2011)

I'm sure Moffat has thought this strand through


----------



## Augie March (May 30, 2011)

Oh I see... so real Amy and fake Amy are of the same mind, she just doesn't realise the real version of her is somewhere else.


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

There is no 'fake Amy', just Amy whose perceptions were transferred to a fake body.


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

This kind of strong through-story is a good synthesis between the old 6-episode stories and the one- and two-parters.


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2011)

I'm going to guess that Amy is the Doctors daughter and River is Amys daughter. So River is the Doctors grand-daughter.

Or something. I'm going to be wrong. These episodes really do need watching more than once.


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> I'm going to guess that Amy is the Doctors daughter and River is Amys daughter. So River is the Doctors grand-daughter.
> 
> Or something. I'm going to be wrong. These episodes really do need watching more than once.


 
No.

Just... no.


----------



## strung out (May 30, 2011)

there's something i heard steven moffatt say (though i don't know if this was in an interview or in private), that once it finally works out by the end of the season, it will be obvious that you knew all along, right from the early 1960s episodes.


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> there's something i heard steven moffatt say (though i don't know if this was in an interview or in private), that once it finally works out by the end of the season, it will be obvious that you knew all along, right from the early 1960s episodes.


----------



## strung out (May 30, 2011)

should point out that i have no idea myself what that means. i try not to find out too many spoilers in advance!


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

Doesn't matter, it sounds cool. 

Did you ever see Joking Apart, his sit-com from, oh, years back?


----------



## strung out (May 30, 2011)

yeah i remember that actually! i can only have been 10 or 12 though. i remember this scene particularly


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

I was thinking of the intricate jumping back and forth between different time periods. It's all there.


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> No.
> 
> Just... no.


 
Oh OK. 

I was just trying to work out how Amys daughter would end up as River or something, and as most people seem to assume that River is the Dr's daughter that would make Amy and the Dr, Rivers parents. Which is a bit wierd and wrong. The trailer for next week seems to scream that River is Amys daughter, and will be a powerful weapon ra ra ra...

But if River was the Dr's grand daughter, then it kinda fits.

Still if you say 'No' then I'll bow to your knowledge. I'm shit at working out these things


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Oh OK.
> 
> I was just trying to work out how Amys daughter would end up as River or something, and as most people seem to assume that River is the Dr's daughter that would make Amy and the Dr, Rivers parents. Which is a bit wierd and wrong. The trailer for next week seems to scream that River is Amys daughter, and will be a powerful weapon ra ra ra...
> 
> ...


 
I was saying no on the basis of the unlikelihood of a primetime BBC One series having a main character (viz, the Doctor) snogging the face off his own grand-daughter.


----------



## spanglechick (May 30, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Oh OK.
> 
> I was just trying to work out how Amys daughter would end up as River or something, and as most people seem to assume that River is the Dr's daughter that would make Amy and the Dr, Rivers parents. Which is a bit wierd and wrong. The trailer for next week seems to scream that River is Amys daughter, and will be a powerful weapon ra ra ra...
> 
> ...


 
river is not the doctor's daughter or his granddaughter.  They have snogged.


----------



## strung out (May 30, 2011)

the funny thing about doctor who nowadays is that it's made by a bunch of absolute Doctor Who nerds, who do know all the stories from the 60s and 70s and can refer back to obscure bits of trivia that make everything fit together so beautifully (despite the dubious continuity every now and then). russell t davies, steven moffatt and even david tennant were well known on the fan circuit before they became involved with the show, for being pretty hardcore fans.

as such, it's interesting to see some of the things they made before doctor who and see how little bits of the show influenced their writing, whether it was references in queer as folk, jumping around time periods etc in joking apart, or in-jokes in coupling.

a funny story i heard about tennant which i've probably told before is that when he got the part of the doctor, he'd just started seeing a new girlfriend and upon taking her back to his flat, she spotted row upon row of doctor who vhs tapes and dvds. he had to tell her that the bbc had sent them to him as research for the part 

anyway, gone slightly off topic now. yeah, isn't moffatt great?


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2011)

Ah yeah - good point about the snogging.


----------



## spanglechick (May 30, 2011)

so i have to say, i didn't like the last two episodes very much. they were needlessly twisty, offputtingly ugly on the eye and generally un-engaging. which is where i guess i diverge from the who-fan hive mind.  i think of the episodes i've loved best of new who (and i don't remember any old who) they are stand-alones. Blink, The Shakespeare Code, The Girl in the Fireplace, the vincent van gogh one.  I found moffat's who easier to engage with because it was less unsatisfying. I don't want to bank everything on a big end-of series payoff. I want episodes to stand alone - or possibly as two parters. 

Thinking about it, maybe it's just this series. The more it goes on, the less i'm liking it.


----------



## Santino (May 30, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> which is where i guess i diverge from the who-fan hive mind.


 
It's pronounced 'monothought clique'.


----------



## strung out (May 30, 2011)

i'm not sure there's a who fan hive mind. i know a few doctor who obsessives who refuse to acknowledge anything after survival, while there are plenty of wide ranging views on the more specialist who sites. there are quite a few nutters confidently predicting that moffatt's stewardship will result in the end of the show by the end of the year.

personally, i think they get a good mixture of season long arcs and stand-alone episodes. the last two could quite easily have stood on their own, but there are a few nice hints and twists that just keep your interest going from one episode to the next.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> the funny thing about doctor who nowadays is that it's made by a bunch of absolute Doctor Who nerds, who do know all the stories from the 60s and 70s and can refer back to obscure bits of trivia that make everything fit together so beautifully (despite the dubious continuity every now and then). russell t davies, steven moffatt and even david tennant were well known on the fan circuit before they became involved with the show, for being pretty hardcore fans.
> 
> as such, it's interesting to see some of the things they made before doctor who and see how little bits of the show influenced their writing, whether it was references in queer as folk, jumping around time periods etc in joking apart, or in-jokes in coupling.
> 
> ...


I don't know how a man who brought us "Love and Monsters" (and other stuff I like to forget) can call himself a "fan".


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

lots of people like love and monsters. it's much better than some of the guff we got in the 80s, though i admit, i'm not particularly keen on it.

davies has certainly been a fan for many many years. he used to get letters published in the magazine all the way through the 90s!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2011)

he is a fan.   but  just because someone is a fan doesn't mean they are good.  just read  some doctor who fan fic.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2011)

i feel the problem with  single episode stories is that they are a little short.    old  who  was made up of mainly stand alone stories  but those  had  much longer to develop story lines.   even the shortest one  were longer than what we get at the moment   45min isn't a hell of a lot of time to establish a story.  

it's just not  very paced.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> lots of people like love and monsters. it's much better than some of the guff we got in the 80s, though i admit, i'm not particularly keen on it.
> 
> davies has certainly been a fan for many many years. he used to get letters published in the magazine all the way through the 90s!


I'd take the "guff" from the '80s over L&M any day. 


Shippou-Sensei said:


> he is a fan.   but  just because someone is a fan doesn't mean they are good.  just read  some doctor who fan fic.


Yeah, but that fan fiction doesn't get broadcast.

To me some of RTD's material came across as if he thought he was writing for a comedy programme; like he'd never even watched the show.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> lots of people like love and monsters. it's much better than some of the guff we got in the 80s, though i admit, i'm not particularly keen on it.


 
i'm not sure about much better.  on par maybe  but i wouldn't try to claim for better...  

the thing is  i can imagine it working  if it was half as long  and  done  as  a comedic children in need special  but as an episode  of proper doctor who  it's  got to rank fairly fucking low.  the cartoon hall way chase,  the  concrete blow job face, peter fucking kay


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Yeah, but that fan fiction doesn't get broadcast.


 
no  but  but most of it  was published by virgin


----------



## spanglechick (May 31, 2011)

i quite llike love and monsters. I like the blowjob face.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2011)

I thought it was ok, but the lady turning into the monster to make an 'exciting' end to the plot was just boringly dull. Then the tardis magically 'fixed' the copies so that they were really human, and conveniently there were no duplicates left. Completely unnecessary, and it also destroyed any of the interesting ideas the story introduced. 

And what where they pumping acid for?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2011)

and  how come the tardis  just turned up   nicely  instead of a giant  acid swap  colapses the tunnel


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I'd take the "guff" from the '80s over L&M any day.
> 
> Yeah, but that fan fiction doesn't get broadcast.
> 
> To me some of RTD's material came across as if he thought he was writing for a comedy programme; like he'd never even watched the show.


 


Shippou-Sensei said:


> i'm not sure about much better.  on par maybe  but i wouldn't try to claim for better...
> 
> the thing is  i can imagine it working  if it was half as long  and  done  as  a comedic children in need special  but as an episode  of proper doctor who  it's  got to rank fairly fucking low.  the cartoon hall way chase,  the  concrete blow job face, peter fucking kay


 
i get that you disagree, and i'm not having a go at you for it, but the evidence really doesn't back up the claims. audience figures are far higher now than they were for an awful lot of doctor who in the 80s, against much higher competition from other channels. right now, it's consistently getting the 1st, 2nd or 3rd highest audiences of the day and has done ever since it returned. in addition to this, in fan surveys the current episodes far outperform anything like timelash, the twin dilemma etc. in fact, the last survey to be done, including all 200 episodes only had 3 or 4 post-2005 stories in the bottom 50. since it came back the series has done incredibly well, so though you may complain about the quality and format all you like, it really doesn't stand up to the actual evidence of how well the show is doing.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2011)

How come there were two sonic screwdrivers? 
Couldn't they just set it to go off after they left? 
Couldn't the doctor copy go in the tardis and take off. The real doctor could stay behind and zap the monster. Then the fake doctor could fly back and pick him up. The tardis could eve make him 'real'.


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

a sonic screwdriver was replicated with the new doctor, same as all his clothes and stuff being replicated.

i agree about the ending, it was a bit weak but it's just liberal use of dramatic license really and was a shame it didn't quite add up.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> i get that you disagree, and i'm not having a go at you for it, but the evidence really doesn't back up the claims. audience figures are far higher now than they were for an awful lot of doctor who in the 80s, against much higher competition from other channels. right now, it's consistently getting the 1st, 2nd or 3rd highest audiences of the day and has done ever since it returned. in addition to this, in fan surveys the current episodes far outperform anything like timelash, the twin dilemma etc. in fact, the last survey to be done, including all 200 episodes only had 3 or 4 post-2005 stories in the bottom 50. since it came back the series has done incredibly well, so though you may complain about the quality and format all you like, it really doesn't stand up to the actual evidence of how well the show is doing.



i'm not making the claim that new who isn't popular  i'm arguing that love and monsters was gash   and in terms  of  fan surveys  the current stuff always does better.   in 20 years time i think  who fans  will  scorn  love and monsters  and timelash  and all the other dross  that's in  who

new who in my opinion is of mixed  but  reasonably good overall  quality  
 and although i may  prefer some of the old story formats   and  my favorite season will probably always the last mccoy one    i'm not arguing that all of new who is shit   just that some of new who is shit


----------



## Augie March (May 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> There is no 'fake Amy', just Amy whose perceptions were transferred to a fake body.



Amy still was under the belief she was in her real body though, so to all intent purposes she believed that she was alive in the TARDIS. So if the Doctor zapped her without explaining the situation, she would have still believed that he was actually killing her. Then she goes and wakes up in a white room giving birth to a baby she never knew had existed, while a scary woman with an eye patch stares at her through a hatch telling her to 'Puuuuuuush' .

This storyline is quite a bit fucked up really. I'm expecting Amy to have some issues after all this.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2011)

Yeah, I'm not sure why he didn't just sit down and tell her. She was already freaking out about the woman looking in on her. Why did he even need to send her back? Could she not have given birth in the other body? She could have been useful. 

And the tardis stabilized all the copy bodies, making them human. Not amys?


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 31, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure why he didn't just sit down and tell her. She was already freaking out about the woman looking in on her. Why did he even need to send her back? Could she not have given birth in the other body? She could have been useful.
> 
> And the tardis stabilized all the copy bodies, making them human. Not amys?



Amy's ginger ganger hadn't been 'made alive' with a solar storm though.

...and Shippou, it's "series", not "season" (sorry, pet hate )


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

series and season are both acceptable, we've done this debate before!


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2011)

acceptable to _you_, maybe.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> series and season are both acceptable, we've done this debate before!



Haha, ok, I'll let it slip. But I'll never accept it, never!


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

killer b said:


> acceptabl to _you_, maybe.


 
and acceptable to the people who made doctor who for the first 26 years it was made, too


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2011)

who gives a shit what they thought?


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

all i'm saying is that they were officially called 'seasons' for 26 of the 34 years doctor who has been made. generally, the terms have been interchangeable with the writers and fans alike. it's only the freaks who have some weird bee in their bonnet about american shows that get wound up by it.


----------



## Augie March (May 31, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Amy's ginger ganger hadn't been 'made alive' with a solar storm though.



The Ganger Amy is alive though. Her consciousness is in that body and believes it too be real. So from her own perception, she is alive and real.

Pinocchio believed he was real too, you wouldn't just casually set fire to him and let him burn him to death just because his body wasn't real. 

The Doctor is therefore, an utter bastard.


----------



## stuff_it (May 31, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Amy's ginger ganger hadn't been 'made alive' with a solar storm though.


 
There's no explanation why it wasn't though, as she was there during the storm....


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

her ganger was there during the storm, not her real body. presumably her real body wasn't affected by the storm and therefore the link between amy and her ganger wasn't broken.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 31, 2011)

It very nearly as bad as saying "would of". 

Back on topic, was it the 'real' Doctor that grabbed Amy and went a bit mental? Going to have to re-watch that part to see what it was all about.


----------



## BoxRoom (May 31, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> There's no explanation why it wasn't though, as she was there during the storm....



Were the humans all plugged into the machine when the storm hit? I can't remember. Brain fail.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 31, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> There's no explanation why it wasn't though, as she was there during the storm....



The device linking her wasn't there though, that's what was affected and had to be shut down last episode.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 31, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> It very nearly as bad as saying "would of".
> 
> Back on topic, was it the 'real' Doctor that grabbed Amy and went a bit mental? Going to have to re-watch that part to see what it was all about.



I reckon it was.



BoxRoom said:


> Were the humans all plugged into the machine when the storm hit? I can't remember. Brain fail.



I think so.


----------



## Augie March (May 31, 2011)

Ganger Amy already believed she was real, so something like the storm must have already happened to her. She had no idea she was linked up with the actual Amy, like all the others did before the storm.


----------



## Santino (May 31, 2011)

Amy's ganger was more advanced technology than the other ones. That's why the Doctor went there, to check out the earlier versions.


----------



## Augie March (May 31, 2011)

She was probably all wi-fi compatible, where the other ones still had to plug themselves in.


----------



## gsv (May 31, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Ganger Amy already believed she was real, so something like the storm must have already happened to her. She had no idea she was linked up with the actual Amy, like all the others did before the storm.


There wasn't a Ganger Amy at all. There was a ganger that Amy was plugged into. Amy didn't know she was plugged into a ganger so she thought it was her own body. When the ganger disintegrated, her conciousness reverted to her own body.

So Doc Bastardo didn't kill anyone. But he was still a cunt for not explaining to Amy what he was about to do, shitting her up completely unnecessarily.

GS(v)


----------



## joustmaster (May 31, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Ganger Amy already believed she was real, so something like the storm must have already happened to her. She had no idea she was linked up with the actual Amy, like all the others did before the storm.


 
Her ganger wasn't independent though. Amy was controlling it from the white room...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> It very nearly as bad as saying "would of".
> 
> Back on topic, was it the 'real' Doctor that grabbed Amy and went a bit mental? Going to have to re-watch that part to see what it was all about.


 
They didn't say when they switched shoes.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Amy's ganger was more advanced technology than the other ones. That's why the Doctor went there, to check out the earlier versions.


 
Didn't he say he went there to check out where the transmission was coming from or to break the transmission.


----------



## stuff_it (May 31, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Didn't he say he went there to check out where the transmission was coming from or to break the transmission.


 
To find out how to break the transmission iirc.

Maybe he couldn't tell her as 'they' (the people that have Amy) were monitoring the feed somehow?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2011)

Break the transmission? He could have just sonic splatted her at any time.


----------



## stuff_it (May 31, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that's what he said, to be able to break or block the transmission....he *did* use the screwdriver, looked like he needed to see the early tech to calibrate it properly.


----------



## Corax (May 31, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> he is a fan.   but  just because someone is a fan doesn't mean they are good.  just read  some doctor who fan fic.


There's some very good Dr Who fan fiction around - look!



> The Doctor curled his fingers around Jack for a moment, massaging the oil with a few firm strokes, before letting go and following the oil deeper. Jack cried out with pleasure as the first of the Doctor’s fingertips slowly began to slip into him. Jack was torn between the enjoyment of this slow seduction and his need for more immediate gratification. But he didn’t have to worry for long, as each touch was also causing the Doctor’s arousal to reach fever pitch.
> 
> Kneeling before Jack, the Doctor pulled the man upright so that Jack was almost sat on the Doctor’s lap. Jack kissed the Doctor hungrily as he slowly lowered himself, moaning into the Doctor’s mouth as the Doctor’s cock slid deep into him.
> 
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2011)

who writes this stuff ffs


----------



## Corax (May 31, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> who writes this stuff ffs


 
Dawn Howard, apparently.

I may try to find her on facebook now.


----------



## Corax (May 31, 2011)

Corax said:


> Dawn Howard, apparently.
> 
> I may try to find her on facebook now.


 






or






or






I reckon it's the first one.  She looks _dirty_.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2011)

the one at the bottom has a geek girls haircut though


----------



## stuff_it (May 31, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> the one at the bottom has a geek girls haircut though


 
This, but then again if the one at the top has naturally curly hair she may not have that much hairstyle choice.

Maybe it's the middle one? Perhaps she is so pasty looking from stopping in fapping over a computer keyboard?


----------



## binka (May 31, 2011)

using google and searching for "dawn howard" dawneh i found her liverjournal page and myspace page and she isnt any of those women. however there is no doubting that shes a big dr who fan


----------



## Santino (May 31, 2011)

I think this is her: http://facebook.com/profile.php?=5rt68u8f34j8k97hr1


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 31, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> who writes this stuff ffs



It's not me..honest. I am not Dawn Howard!!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2011)

The first time I searched innocently for doctor who fanfiction (this was before I realised that all fanfiction is basically really unsexy sci fi erotica)I came across 'a teaspoon and an open mind'. It's rammed to the hilt with whovian filth. I bet if you looked you could find a story wher tegn and nyssa get it on.

http://www.whofic.com/


----------



## rollinder (May 31, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> The first time I searched innocently for doctor who fanfiction (this was before I realised that all fanfiction is basically really unsexy sci fi erotica)I came across 'a teaspoon and an open mind'. It's rammed to the hilt with whovian filth. I bet if you looked you could find a story wher tegn and nyssa get it on.
> 
> http://www.whofic.com/


 
according to Doctor Who Magazine ages ago (tiny blurb in their 90s history of Who fanzines feature iirc) there was an 80's fanfic where Tegan goes to her gynaecologist and discovers she's having a two-hearted baby. Got denounced as filth my an Mp apparently.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 31, 2011)

personally i'd have picked nyssa.  she already had the hair for it


----------



## fogbat (May 31, 2011)

Corax said:


> Dawn Howard, apparently.
> 
> I may try to find her on facebook now.


 
Oh dear Christ! She's written a fuckload of Black Books slash


----------



## strung out (May 31, 2011)

lol 



> Manny awoke with a start. Something had disturbed him, but he wasn’t sure what. He lay still as his eyes adjusted to the dark of his room. Then the sound came again, what was that? It sounded like… it was.. somebody was crying. But who? The only other person in the flat was Bernard and it wouldn’t be him, would it?
> 
> Manny listened as the sobs became louder; it was Bernard, what could have happened? Without thinking Manny threw back his sheets, gasping slightly as the cold air touched his skin, before slipping into his robe and heading for Bernard’s room, concern written across his face, what could have hurt his friend so?
> 
> ...


----------



## fogbat (May 31, 2011)

It's uncanny how she's succeeded in catching the _spirit_ of Black Books


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> lol


 
Lol 

Although I know that is going to drift back into my head when I am trying to get to sleep!


----------



## fogbat (May 31, 2011)

If Bernard and Manny ever fucked, it wouldn't be tender and loving. It'd be an angry, lube-free grudgefuck.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Lol
> 
> Although I know that is going to drift back into my head when I am in the vinegars


 
alas


----------



## Corax (May 31, 2011)

Some of you are such philistines.  It's _art_.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 31, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> alas


 
 Bet it bloody does as well instead of sordid Capt. Jack/Dr David and Dr Matt fantasies that normally keep me...going.


----------



## fogbat (May 31, 2011)

I still plan to to write my Only Fools and Horses / Angry Birds crossover slash epic at some point


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 31, 2011)

fogbat said:


> I still plan to to write my Only Fools and Horses / Angry Birds crossover slash epic at some point


 
Boycie and the King Pigs?


----------



## AverageJoe (May 31, 2011)

Corax said:


> There's some very good Dr Who fan fiction around - look!
> 
> "The Doctor curled his fingers around Jack for a moment, massaging the oil with a few firm strokes, before letting go and following the oil deeper. Jack cried out with pleasure as the first of the Doctor’s fingertips slowly began to slip into him. Jack was torn between the enjoyment of this slow seduction and his need for more immediate gratification. But he didn’t have to worry for long, as each touch was also causing the Doctor’s arousal to reach fever pitch.
> 
> ...


 
No wonder RTD had to go....


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 1, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> and Shippou, it's "series", not "season" (sorry, pet hate )


 
i prefer season for  old who as  it  indicates blocks  of  self contained stories defined by production/air date     given new  who's  overarching  plot  i    feel  more comfortable calling those  series  as   they have  a thematic connection.   

you may feel  diffrently  but this is the logic behind my choice


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> I think this is her: http://facebook.com/profile.php?=5rt68u8f34j8k97hr1


 
That girl looks far to busy to be writing fanfic


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2011)

I don't like where this thread is going.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 1, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't like where this thread is going.


 






uke or seme?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 1, 2011)

DO NOT TAKE THIS WRONG! I WILL X-TER-MI-NA-TE YOU, BUT NOT BECAUSE I HAVE ANY INTEREST IN YOU... DAAAAALEKS DO NOT HAVE INTEREST IN IN-FEEEERIOR LIFE FORMS SUCH AS YOU! I JUST... I WILL X-TER-MI-NATE YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A DALEK! GEE! DO NOT GO THINKING YOU ARE SPECIAL! I WILL SIMPLY X-TER-MI-NATE YOU! THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO IT!...


the tsundalek


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 1, 2011)

back on course

21 hints for next weeks episode , its not really spoilery but if your at all worried then dont click on the link

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/06/01/doctor-who-“a-good-man-goes-to-war”-spoiler-free-preview/


----------



## Santino (Jun 1, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> back on course
> 
> 21 hints for next weeks episode , its not really spoilery but if your at all worried then dont click on the link
> 
> http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/06/01/doctor-who-“a-good-man-goes-to-war”-spoiler-free-preview/


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 1, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> back on course
> 
> 21 hints for next weeks episode , its not really spoilery but if your at all worried then dont click on the link
> 
> http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/06/01/doctor-who-“a-good-man-goes-to-war”-spoiler-free-preview/


 
Ooooh that has made me so excited!!! *runs arounds in a little circle*


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 1, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't like where this thread is going.


 
It's going to get itself moved to Nobbin and Sobbin at this rate...


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 1, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> back on course
> 
> 21 hints for next weeks episode , its not really spoilery but if your at all worried then dont click on the link
> 
> http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/06/01/doctor-who-“a-good-man-goes-to-war”-spoiler-free-preview/



OMG look what rory's wearing in that screenshot!


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 1, 2011)

Duly noted.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 1, 2011)

The last hint, about the title of episode 8 (and don't quote me on this at all), but I've heard a rumour that it's:

(the next line will be in white as a (possible) spoiler, so only highlight it if you want to know!)
'Let's Kill Hitler'


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 1, 2011)

You totally just made that up.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> You totally just made that up.


 
Well wait and see! Like I said, don't count on it, but it's what I've heard.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 1, 2011)

This week's episode is the last one.....for now.  The rest of the series is being shown in the autumn.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 1, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> This week's episode is the last one.....for now.  The rest of the series is being shown in the autumn.


 
I know, the hint says that at the end of Saturday's episode, it says 'The Doctor will return in...' and then the title, which I've heard is the one I put above. I could be way off, but it'd be great if it was.


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 1, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> This week's episode is the last one.....for now.  The rest of the series is being shown in the autumn.


 


:wankers:

I knew it was coming, but still FFS


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 2, 2011)

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/49870

Has released a spoiler about River Song, I think.   The spoiler is not available if you click the link, you would then have to play the video they have.   I haven't played the vid myself.  I hate spoilers.


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2011)

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/d11s01/d11s01e08_silurian_mask.pdf


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> http://www.aintitcool.com/node/49870
> 
> Has released a spoiler about River Song, I think.   The spoiler is not available if you click the link, you would then have to play the video they have.   I haven't played the vid myself.  I hate spoilers.


 
Those are from the BBC website.
There is no reveal as to who River is, all they are saying is that the next episode will reveal who River is. It's teasers, not spoilers.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 3, 2011)

Ah cool.  It's handy having you around cos you can check all these things.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> Ah cool.  It's handy having you around cos you can check all these things.


 
I kind of figured the BBC wouldn't spoil their major selling point for the episode. Plus it does kind of say all that in the text.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 3, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> Well wait and see! Like I said, don't count on it, but it's what I've heard.



Ive heard that from a few sources too


----------



## Pingu (Jun 3, 2011)

so hang on a sec... lets wind back abit here...

from what i have gathered it would be possible to have multiple amy ponds yeah?

and no one thought about a gangbang?


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Those are from the BBC website.
> There is no reveal as to who River is, all they are saying is that the next episode will reveal who River is. It's teasers, not spoilers.


 
The Evening Standard kinda revealed it in an interview with Alex Kingston on Wednesday

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/theat...-who-is-the-closest-thing-to-theatre-on-tv.do


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2011)

If it turns out that River is Ponds daughter then I am going to stab the television.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> The Evening Standard kinda revealed it in an interview with Alex Kingston on Wednesday
> 
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/theat...-who-is-the-closest-thing-to-theatre-on-tv.do


 
Where??? I can't see any reveal of any sort.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> If it turns out that River is Ponds daughter then I am going to stab the television.


 
I hope it is, just to see your raging fury.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> If it turns out that River is Ponds daughter then I am going to stab the television.


 
Would that make Rory her Dad?


----------



## Pingu (Jun 3, 2011)

or ponds mum?


----------



## Cid (Jun 3, 2011)

Pond was on Rebus yesterday (a question of blood), was quite odd seeing her blurt out 'I give him a wank'. Her acting hasn't changed much mind you.


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 3, 2011)

Pingu said:


> so hang on a sec... lets wind back abit here...
> 
> from what i have gathered it would be possible to have multiple amy ponds yeah?
> 
> and no one thought about a gangbang?


 
Why, how many strap ons do you own?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Would that make Rory her Dad?


 
Who cares.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Who cares.


 
The Child Support Agency. 

He's going to seriously flip out when gets a bill for 2000 years worth of unpaid child support.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Where??? I can't see any reveal of any sort.


 
Its much easier if you read it before posting fella.

"Thank goodness then for Doctor Who. The show is "the closest thing to theatre" on telly in terms of its ensemble atmosphere. It also dares - thanks to the complexities of time travel - to posit a romance between Matt Smith's twentysomething Doctor and Kingston's mysterious, gun-toting River Song.  

"It plays with the notion of an older woman being in love with a younger man, who in his own funny, confused way loves her but doesn't quite know why, because it's a love in his future, in a different body," she says. "I'm not sure you'd get that kind of dynamic in America. At first I thought, my goodness, children aren't really going to understand or respond to River Song because of the age difference. But it seems they don't notice that. It's the character they are responding to. I have had women coming up to me saying that she's a fantastic role model. That it's great to see a woman in her forties being kick-ass." 

So River is Dr 12 or 13 or 20's girlfriend, and probably travelling companion (hence being able to fly le tardis etc). Its just that she was going out with the Dr when he was in a different body, and he hasnt actually met her yet, which is why there is the interplay between them. His awkwardness and uncertainty, and her definite knowledge and confidence.

Or so the article says.


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2011)

Reads more like assumption/speculation than reveal to me.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 3, 2011)

and now for something equal parts ridiculous and awesome



doctor who the anime

the very bad voice acting in the first segment is part of the charm


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 4, 2011)

*If anyone hasn't seen the prequel on the website, watch it now. This is a prequel, not a spoiler, and will not be seen on tomorrow's programme.*

What we know from trailers, prequels, offical news sources (cretins on Ds, etc)...



Spoiler



The Cybermen are enlisted to SUPPORT the Doctor, and are led by a cyber-leader with a transparent skull, implying he is not subordinate to a controller. They do NOT have Cybus Industries plates on their chests.

There is a character named Jenny. Whether soap rules about no two characters having the same name apply is unclear.

The fat blue bloke does all right, as _he_ hasn't met River in the right order either.

The Sycorax are unlikely to appear, AGAIN. How dissapointed was I when they were said to be in orbit last year, and never materialised?! Oh great, it's Chris Ryan again, and the Silurians, I care about them...

Madame Kovarian's troops wear Omega symbols, as did the religious soldiers in last series' Weeping Angels two-parter.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 4, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Its much easier if you read it before posting fella.
> 
> So River is Dr 12 or 13 or 20's girlfriend, and probably travelling companion (hence being able to fly le tardis etc). Its just that she was going out with the Dr when he was in a different body, and he hasnt actually met her yet, which is why there is the interplay between them. His awkwardness and uncertainty, and her definite knowledge and confidence.
> 
> Or so the article says.


I did read the article. We knew this already from the first time she met the dr and commented on how much younger he looked in this regeneration (as tennant) and that she wasn't surprised by regeneration's in general. 

Hence I saw no reveal.


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 4, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> and now for something equal parts ridiculous and awesome
> 
> 
> 
> ...




(((((Chavs)))))


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 4, 2011)

strangly aparently chavs on holiday in japan


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 4, 2011)

Yes it's all very confusing.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 4, 2011)

Not long to wait now.

*does little dance*


----------



## emanymton (Jun 4, 2011)

Somebody suggested it earlier in the thread, but River is going to kill Rory isn't she?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 4, 2011)

it does sound like  more of a twist than the doctor.

but  poor old rory seems  to be  practically immortal now.  kill him and he just comes back again.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 4, 2011)

*Fucking brilliant! *


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 4, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The Child Support Agency.
> 
> He's going to seriously flip out when gets a bill for 2000 years worth of unpaid child support.



She's English, not Australian, Canadian or American, therefore the likelihood of the CSA being successful in billing Rory for 2000 years worth of unpaid child support is virtually nil


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 4, 2011)

Anyway, what a brilliant series 
I'm actually looking forward to winter in a weird kind of way, just so I can curl up on a dark night and watch Doctor Who


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 4, 2011)

Arrrrrhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
45 minutes of over the top wank with zero content.
Sexy lady dies.

The most predictable of all reveals in the history of predictability and obviousness is revealed. 
Jesus wept.

It would have been better if River was a fucking future regeneration of Mr Who and he was sexing himself. And that would have been well shit too.
Boring predictable cunts. Making such a dogs dinner out of such a boring and lazy plot point.


----------



## strung out (Jun 4, 2011)

woah! 

brilliant, though there wasn't much of a story. basically all a set up for the autumn, which suits me fine.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It would have been better if River was a fucking future regeneration of Mr Who and he was sexing himself. And that would have been well shit too.


 
LOL. Like some super-Narcissus-istic self-love without the falling-in-love-with-your-own-reflection-embarrassment, (yeah yuk LOL) !!!

But even so, it's gotta happen at some point (regeneration as a female).


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 4, 2011)

Thought it was great. Really enjoyed it!! And a good set up for Autumn


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Arrrrrhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
> 45 minutes of over the top wank with zero content.
> Sexy lady dies.
> 
> ...



Didn't like it, then? I'd never have predicted that


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 4, 2011)

What is wrong with all of you?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is wrong with all of you?


 
We got over the original series?


----------



## binka (Jun 4, 2011)

usually i disagree with atomic suplex's slagging off of doctor who but i think he's mostly right this time. i thought the episode was very underwhelming. it reminded me of some of the worst aspects of rtd's episodes - did anyone not groan at the spitfires in space again?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is wrong with all of you?



You are a parody, and not even a funny one, with hugely predictable opinions?


----------



## strung out (Jun 4, 2011)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> You are a parody, and not even a funny one, with hugely predictable opinions?


 
if there's anything more predictable than the fact that river is amy's daughter, it's that atomic suplex would hate this episode


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is wrong with all of you?


 
The real question is - what's wrong with you, you miserable cunt?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2011)

I like how he whizzed around collecting previously bitchslapped foes for allies


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I like how he whizzed around collecting previously bitchslapped foes for allies


 
I'd like to do that with my urban foes


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 4, 2011)

Yeah, a cosmic task force of urbanites would be definitely something worth having. "Stand down, or I will criticise your class consciousness in a very sarcastic fashion."


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is wrong with all of you?



oh dear AS , I used to laugh at your posts, thought you were trying to be a  ' kooky ' loveable troll, without actually trolling but now your boring m8 , in fact so boring you watch a program you realy dont like and then come up with oh so tiresome bitching , still i suppose evey forum needs someone like you 

but to be honest turn over and watch 'britains got dancing on strictly ice talent' you might like it more


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 4, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> LOL. Like some super-Narcissus-istic self-love without the falling-in-love-with-your-own-reflection-embarrassment, (yeah yuk LOL) !!!
> 
> But even so, it's gotta happen at some point (regeneration as a female).


 
Maybe he has a gayness fling with River while regenerated as a woman? They seem to have had a lot of gay or hinted at being gay (even interspecies gay) couples for a kids show otherwise, perhaps they are leading up to something?




FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, a cosmic task force of urbanites would be definitely something worth having. "Stand down, or I will criticise your class consciousness in a very sarcastic fashion."


 
Truly intergalactic foes would be reduced to quivering jellies by the vitrol of it? (providing they weren't made of jelly already)


----------



## Santino (Jun 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> "Stand down, or I will criticise your class consciousness in a very sarcastic fashion."



Noooooooooooo!!!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 4, 2011)

yopu know i didn't hate it.

it was  full of bombast  like  some of the RTD crap   but i thought  it managed to root itself in a certain amount of awesomeness   with the  dirty half dozen  and the hinting of doctors dark side.

it does also kinda  screw the idea of genetic looms though


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 4, 2011)

Spin-off series for Victorian Silurian lady and sidekick with swords and blatant undertones. Now please.


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Jun 4, 2011)

I like how there was no pause between *DRAMATIC PLOT REVELATION* and *LET'S KILL HITLER*


----------



## Santino (Jun 4, 2011)

"Let's Kill Hitler" promises so much. How can you fulfill that?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Spin-off series for Victorian Silurian lady and sidekick with swords and blatant undertones. Now please.


 
that was a highlight. sidekick... fucking combat maid.  apron and katana.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Arrrrrhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
> 45 minutes of over the top wank with zero content.
> Sexy lady dies.
> 
> ...


 
it did feel a bit of  let down being so obvious.  i thought  the whole no water but the river  might have  been important  for  solving  some  life life-threatening situation  but  no  it  was the obvious one.

i did  feel at least they  weren't doing an RTD  with us     and  making the doctor win with the power of love


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, a cosmic task force of urbanites would be definitely something worth having. "Stand down, or I will criticise your class consciousness in a very sarcastic fashion."


 
*giggles*


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, a cosmic task force of urbanites would be definitely something worth having. "Stand down, or I will criticise your class consciousness in a very sarcastic fashion."


 
that or we release the never ding one  known as firky.   he has fallen but he will rise again   and end up really getting on your tits.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Spin-off series for Victorian Silurian lady and sidekick with swords and blatant undertones. Now please.


 
"why do you put up with me?"

*massive tongue*

*knowing look *


----------



## Santino (Jun 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Spin-off series for Victorian Silurian lady and sidekick with swords and blatant undertones. Now please.


 
They weren't undertones. They were just damn tones.

When I saw that, I thought of Steve Moffat saying 'Fans of slashfic, this be my gift to thee'.


----------



## strung out (Jun 4, 2011)

interesting to see that the same people who are holding river prisoner (even though she keeps escaping) are the soldiers keeping amy prisoner


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 4, 2011)

Santino said:


> When I saw that, I thought of Steve Moffat saying 'Fans of slashfic, this be my gift to thee'.



They'd certainly have a job writing anything interesting about the dimorphic Anglicans.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 4, 2011)

I was right on both counts! I wish I hadn't of known though.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 4, 2011)

Santino said:


> They weren't undertones. They were just damn tones.
> 
> When I saw that, I thought of Steve Moffat saying 'Fans of slashfic, this be my gift to thee'.


 
I was debating whether it's real slash when characters are obviously getting it on anyway.


----------



## strung out (Jun 4, 2011)

next episode Let's Kill Hitler should be fun, anyway. the Doctor just needs to remember, don't scare the Herr.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 4, 2011)

oh god


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 4, 2011)

strung out said:


> next episode Let's Kill Hitler should be fun, anyway. the Doctor just needs to remember, don't scare the Herr.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

going back to something i wrote the other day about Doctor Who being written by fans of years ago, here's something Steven Moffat wrote on a usenet group back in january 1995...

https://groups.google.com/group/rec...a62ae98/c845f05e9b213df9?lnk=st&q&hl=en&pli=1



			
				Steven Moffat said:
			
		

> Here's a particularly stupid theory.  If we take "The Doctor" to
> be the Doctor's name - even if it is in the form of a title no
> doubt meaning something deep and Gallifreyan - perhaps our
> earthly use of the word "doctor" meaning healer or wise man is
> ...



funny how these ideas work out years down the line...


----------



## Gromit (Jun 5, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> She's English, not Australian, Canadian or American, therefore the likelihood of the CSA being successful in billing Rory for 2000 years worth of unpaid child support is virtually nil


 
The UK has CSA too Moran!

http://www.csa.gov.uk/


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 5, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The UK has CSA too Moran!
> 
> http://www.csa.gov.uk/


 
do you mean moron?


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> "Let's Kill Hitler" promises so much. How can you fulfill that?


 
OMG. If Hitler gets killed, does someone capable of even more evil take his place? There must have been other candidates in the wings, just waiting to seize control upon his demise. Would the course of history actually change?


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Spin-off series for Victorian Silurian lady and sidekick with swords and blatant undertones. Now please.


 
Yes, please!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> "Let's Kill Hitler" promises so much. How can you fulfill that?


Like this: http://www.abyssandapex.com/200710-wikihistory.html


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Thought it was great. Really enjoyed it!! And a good set up for Autumn


 It was great.  Really enjoyed it.  And some fantastic lines.

Not too sure why the Dr was Skyping while the famous battle was going on, but still.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 5, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> OMG. If Hitler gets killed, does someone capable of even more evil take his place? There must have been other candidates in the wings, just waiting to seize control upon his demise. Would the course of history actually change?


 
Not if you kill him at the end of the war just before the suicide. 
Maybe it wasn't suicide.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, a cosmic task force of urbanites would be definitely something worth having.



A return to the library, where some weird alien troll is caught red handed by River Song, who has regenerated into Mrs Magpie?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jun 5, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> A return to the library, where some weird alien troll is caught red handed by River Song, who has regenerated into Mrs Magpie?


 
 

and pogo as a cyborg "It's been done. It's beeen done! It'sss BEEEEEN DOOONE!!!1!!1"


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 5, 2011)

sign-ups in the library
forums of the dead


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2011)

moffat isn't really going full godwins is he?


room for a downfal/who mash up parody


----------



## Santino (Jun 5, 2011)

So what was that skeletal hand with the sonic screwdriver about?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 5, 2011)

ruffneck23 said:


> oh dear AS , I used to laugh at your posts, thought you were trying to be a  ' kooky ' loveable troll, without actually trolling but now your boring m8 , in fact so boring you watch a program you realy dont like and then come up with oh so tiresome bitching , still i suppose evey forum needs someone like you
> 
> but to be honest turn over and watch 'britains got dancing on strictly ice talent' you might like it more


 
I don't give a shit about programmes I don't like. You won't see britains got talent or skating nobodies on ice getting a look in because I don't get past the radio times listing.
I don't like people lazily screwing up programmes I do like. 

I'm also guessing tone doesn't come much into text. None of this destroys my world or rubs me bitterly to the core, it's just TV and this is just a forum talking about a show that was on the telly.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 5, 2011)

already seen a moffat downfall

actually  i just realised what this  twist allows them to do.  they  can now swap actors  for river song.  they can turn her into a back ground charactor  and  say all the big stuff is in one of her previous regenerations


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 5, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> and pogo as a cyborg "It's been done. It's beeen done! It'sss BEEEEEN DOOONE!!!1!!1"





That would make a good closing scene, as the rest of the urbanites turn on him, as Daleks, and proclaim "Exterminate!"


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2011)

so - it give new emphasis to River Song being called 'doctor' song - if she was raised by ppl for whom the word doctor means warrior.

As for the Let's Kill Hitler - i think it's going to just be a metaphor for what you shouldn't do in time travel.

So, the doctor will explain that you can't just travel back in time and stop the baddies doing the bad stuff by killing them before they get a chance (as in the well-worn poser of 'if you could go back to hitler''s early life and kill him, would you?') and that as a timelord he's never done that because of unintended consequences and fixed moments in time and blah blah blah... and then having explained all that he'll say 'but in this case, i don't care - let's kill hitler... lets stop eyepatch lady ever getting into power'...

and then you can have it that somehow river song is never born, somehow... which neatly solves the problem of what to do in an ongoing sense with river.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> already seen a moffat downfall
> 
> actually  i just realised what this  twist allows them to do.  they  can now swap actors  for river song.  they can turn her into a back ground charactor  and  say all the big stuff is in one of her previous regenerations




lol


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 5, 2011)

fogbat said:


> "why do you put up with me?"
> 
> *massive tongue*
> 
> *knowing look *


 
I had quite a frisson at that line


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't like people lazily screwing up programmes I do like.


New Who is about 4000 times better than "classic" Who, though.  And that's objectively.  A scientist told me.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 5, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> New Who is about 4000 times better than "classic" Who, though.


 
Yes.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 5, 2011)

trolls


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2011)

so - alex kingston on confidential talking about the cot.

"It's the Doctor's cot - but is it *only* the Doctor's cot? [struggles to find the words] uhhh... yes. That's all I can say. How many- How many babies have been in that cot, basically. [secretive smile, flash of eyebrows]"


which makes me think she's hinting that either she does get wiped out of existence or she is also the doctor.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> New Who is about 4000 times better than "classic" Who, though.  And that's objectively.  A scientist told me.


 
atomic suplex doesn't even like classic Who either though, as he's told us time and again


----------



## killer b (Jun 5, 2011)

i'm not keen on the series break, i have to say - it feels like this series hasn't really built up a head of steam yet (other than in moving on the story, which has been happening at breakneck speed).

last night was fun enough, but there was a lot of unnecessary flab which could have been cut, and a bit more story fitted in... some totally dreadful acting on display too.


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> atomic suplex doesn't even like classic Who either though, as he's told us time and again


 
Indeed why does he bother to watch it then?


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Jun 5, 2011)

there's your nazi's- 0:06

I hope 'Let's Kill Hitler' is handled really insensitively, with uncalled-for jokes about the Holocaust and Fascism. Oh and Matt Smith should do at least one scene disguised as a Gestapo officer. That'd be fit.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 5, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> so - it give new emphasis to River Song being called 'doctor' song - if she was raised by ppl for whom the word doctor means warrior.



I thought her title was "professor"?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 5, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> so - alex kingston on confidential talking about the cot.
> 
> "It's the Doctor's cot - but is it *only* the Doctor's cot? [struggles to find the words] uhhh... yes. That's all I can say. How many- How many babies have been in that cot, basically. [secretive smile, flash of eyebrows]"
> 
> ...


 
Or maybe that she and the Doctor have procreated and brought forth Who-lings of their own that have slept in that cot?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 5, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Indeed why does he bother to watch it then?


 
Got to have something to _kvetch_ about, hasn't he?


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

steven moffat just retweeted me and now i have loads of new followers


----------



## Belushi (Jun 5, 2011)

You've had a geek promotion!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 5, 2011)

Hehe, just seen that strung out. Nice. 

No pressure, but BE ENTERTAINING!


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hehe, just seen that strung out. Nice.
> 
> No pressure, but BE ENTERTAINING!


 
about 50 new followers and counting, so far. my feed is full of people demanding that i perform like a monkey for them


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> about 50 new followers and counting, so far. my feed is full of people demanding that i perform like a monkey for them



Haha, they're not expecting you to dance or anything, are they


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

not all of them, no


----------



## Gromit (Jun 5, 2011)

ginger_syn said:


> do you mean moron?


 
Not when on Urbanz. Morans is Urb legendary.


----------



## Santino (Jun 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> So what was that skeletal hand with the sonic screwdriver about?


 
No one?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2011)

watched it twice now and have no idea what you mean.

there was a closeup of the doctor's hand, emerging through his monk robes and using his screwdriver - but presumably that''s not what you mean.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> watched it twice now and have no idea what you mean.
> 
> there was a closeup of the doctor's hand, emerging through his monk robes and using his screwdriver - but presumably that''s not what you mean.


 
did you watch all the way to the end of the credits?


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> No one?


 
the only thing i can think of is the doctor's skeleton after they burned his body in the first episode of this series. apart from that... *shrug*


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> did you watch all the way to the end of the credits?


 
no! i missed something then? how fab.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

at the end of the credits, there was a shot of a sonic screwdriver in the grip of a skeleton hand. that was it though, so not a huge amount to go off.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> at the end of the credits, there was a shot of a sonic screwdriver in the grip of a skeleton hand. that was it though, so not a huge amount to go off.



frustratingly, it's not on the iplayer version.


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

yeah, it was more af an ident thing immediately after the end of the episode. not strictly speaking part of the story, but a nice little teaser for when it comes back in few months


----------



## Badgers (Jun 5, 2011)

Not a hardcore fan of Dr Who but enjoying this series. 
Good silly Sunday sci-fi


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

it's. not. silly.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's. not. silly.


 
 

It is good/clever silly then?


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2011)

Badgers said:


> It is good/clever silly then?


 
i'm joking of course. part of the reason i love it so much is because it is so silly. anything that takes itself too seriously gets dull pretty quickly.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> No one?


It was a teaser.  That's what it was about.

What could it signify?  The Master, perhaps?  The dead Dr re-emerging?  Who knows.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2011)

meh ... too much clever dicking about. I have stuggeld to kkep up with whats going on in this series and I'm becoming bored. THe Silence story was the best - but there still a huge chunk of that unexplained and unresolved. 

Silurian women was cool and the Sontaran nurse was great. 

but the echoles of RTD's 'Doctor as Messiah' schtick pissed me off.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2011)

re the skellington hand holding the sonic, didn't tennants run in with the master involve his hand in a jar?

I have said 'the master' at every major post simms story arc but it hasn't happened yet


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

i think to a certain extent, moffat is trying to show the other side of the coin as to what happens when the doctor's myth/doctor as messiah stuff becomes _too_ strong. yes some races worship the doctor as messiah, but to other races he means death and destruction, which is a fairly accurate representation of how the doctor would be seen throughout the galaxy.

what is interesting, is that some people seem to be criticising the writers for making it all too obvious, while other are criticising them for making it all too complicated. i guess it goes to show how hard it is to please everyone all the time, particularly with a show that people get as passionate about as doctor who.

i liked the sontaran nurse too btw. "i am capable of producing magnificent amounts of lactic fluid!"


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think to a certain extent, moffat is trying to show the other side of the coin as to what happens when the doctor's myth/doctor as messiah stuff becomes _too_ strong. yes some races worship the doctor as messiah, but to other races he means death and destruction, which is a fairly accurate representation of how the doctor would be seen throughout the galaxy.


 
the oncoming storm...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2011)

Well the river song being amy's kids was not much of a suprise - but that still leaves loads of unresolved, muddled plot. Moffat is being a clever dick and it all ends up feeling far too nerby.  Just tell the story FFS and stop arsing about.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> i liked the sontaran nurse too btw. "i am capable of producing magnificent amounts of lactic fluid!"


 
me too,rory's face was atreat to watch. I have enjoyed watching the new series so far and hope to enjoy the rest. For me its been the best up to now of new who, 'though i love dr who and have done for many many years, I found certain aspects of  the new  who a touch disappointing and or irritating at times, but series 5 & 6 seem to have put back something I hadn't realised was missing for me.


----------



## Termite Man (Jun 6, 2011)

am I right in thinking the next episodes aren't until the autumn. Why can't they just show the whole thing without a break. TWATS


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

because they're still putting the finishing touches to the next episodes. they didn't finish filming them until recently.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 6, 2011)

I also think its a rating experiment. Next year there is the Euros and the Olympics, both of which will take up Sat Evening viewing. Its possible that they are seeing how people respond to a break and then if no-one minds they'll run the 2012 series either side of the sports. If the viewing figures go down, then they'll probably schedule the 2012 series in one go, but push it back to after the Olympics/Footie.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Next year there is the Euros and the Olympics, both of which will take up Sat Evening viewing.


Oh fuck.  

Euros is sport, yes?


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 6, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh fuck.
> 
> Euros is sport, yes?



Oh fuck, indeed. 

Euros is football, I think.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2011)

Isn't there a channel for that stuff?


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

they can (and sometimes do) put them on separate channels, but it hurts ratings to put them both up against each other. there are some sports fans who like to watch doctor who too!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> they can (and sometimes do) put them on separate channels, but it hurts ratings to put them both up against each other. there are some sports fans who like to watch doctor who too!


They should prioritise or record one.


----------



## magneze (Jun 6, 2011)

iPlayer


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 6, 2011)

Yup, if either's going to get prioritised it'll be the sport


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> atomic suplex doesn't even like classic Who either though, as he's told us time and again


 







It's a love hate thing.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 6, 2011)

the doctor who or the takahashi?


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2011)

FIVE Sapphire and Steel boxed sets.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey wow, I have the woman in red on DVD.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the doctor who or the takahashi?


 
Wow, well spotted. I think I have all his films, even the shit ones, and there are way more of them than the good ones.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 6, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> If it turns out that River is Ponds daughter then I am going to stab the television.


 


joustmaster said:


> I hope it is, just to see your raging fury.


 


ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Arrrrrhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
> .


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yup, if either's going to get prioritised it'll be the sport


That tells me all I need to know.


----------



## The Octagon (Jun 6, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's a love hate thing.


 

Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 6, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> If it turns out that River is Ponds daughter then I am going to stab the television.


 
ok I concede and will agree with you

shit reveal is shit


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2011)

The Octagon said:


> Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle


 
I used to be DVD reviewer. I have loads of shit DVDs.


----------



## Corax (Jun 6, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Well the river song being amy's kids was not much of a suprise - but that still leaves loads of unresolved, muddled plot. Moffat is being a clever dick and it all ends up feeling far too nerby.  Just tell the story FFS and stop arsing about.


 
I think you're looking for the Sarah Jane Adventures.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 6, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> am I right in thinking the next episodes aren't until the autumn. Why can't they just show the whole thing without a break. TWATS


 
Marketing


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

afaik, there were a few other reasons for having the break too. i think they overran quite badly with filming, but i can't remember the exact details.

undoubtedly marketing, having an extra cliffhanger, hype etc all played a part though.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 6, 2011)

More time to film, being able to broadcast during darker evenings (which should improve their ratings and provide a more suitable ambience for the spooky episodes).


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

tbf, they'll have finished showing the series before the clocks go back, so i don't think we'll be having too many dark evenings for Doctor Who. what time does it start getting dark in september?


----------



## gsv (Jun 6, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> frustratingly, it's not on the iplayer version.


It looks a little bit like this:


Then the screwdriver fades and it cuts to a title: "Time will run out".

GS(v)


----------



## Augie March (Jun 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> I thought her title was "professor"?


 
When she dies she is a professor but at this current point in the Doctor's timeline, she is a doctor.


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

in a couple of seasons time she'll only have a BA


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> afaik, there were a few other reasons for having the break too. i think they overran quite badly with filming, but i can't remember the exact details.
> 
> undoubtedly marketing, having an extra cliffhanger, hype etc all played a part though.


 
They'll be giving us Merlin,_ Fucking Merlin_, as the stand in saturday evening fayre. And I don't and never have paid my license fee for this. Fucks sake.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 6, 2011)

gsv said:


> It looks a little bit like this:
> View attachment 15698
> 
> Then the screwdriver fades and it cuts to a title: "Time will run out".
> ...



thank you!

I guess maybe it's just symbolic of the dead doctor, rather than being supposed to be an actual still from the series.


----------



## T & P (Jun 6, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I used to be DVD reviewer.


 Given your cheery opinions on a great many film and TV programme, you've probably caused several DVD rental shops to go out of business...


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> in a couple of seasons time she'll only have a BA


 
She will be a regenerated  Geri?


----------



## Belushi (Jun 6, 2011)

She'll have the Dr obviously.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 6, 2011)

Belushi said:


> She'll have the Dr obviously.





But, busted by my quick edit.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2011)

T & P said:


> Given your cheery opinions on a great many film and TV programme, you've probably caused several DVD rental shops to go out of business...


 
Nah, I'm sure nobody watched the show.
Well apart from Adam and Joe, who were not particularly nice. With good reason though.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> in a couple of seasons time she'll only have a BA


 
And yet she'll be even further in student debt


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2011)

Nine Bob Note said:


> And yet she'll be even further in student debt


 
Why do you think she's in prison?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 6, 2011)

Corax said:


> I think you're looking for the Sarah Jane Adventures.


 
I think you're looking for 'partonising anonynous'.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

When Amy said that Rory was known on Earth as The Last Centurion, was that accurate? When the universe was re-booted, did all that waiting around business get left behind in the pocket universe? Does the Pandorica even exist in the 'current' universe? 

And while we're at it, is the Doctor even the original Doctor, or does he just come from Amy's memory too? Is the 'original' Doctor still flying around outside of the universe?


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 7, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> thank you!
> 
> I guess maybe it's just symbolic of the dead doctor, rather than being supposed to be an actual still from the series.


 
Not necessarily _the_ Doctor though, as we learned from the Doctor that The Flesh learned to create organs and bones ... and we never got to see the destruction of The Flesh Doctor ...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> And while we're at it, is the Doctor even the original Doctor, or does he just come from Amy's memory too? Is the 'original' Doctor still flying around outside of the universe?



now that is a very good point...


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> Not necessarily _the_ Doctor though, as we learned from the Doctor that The Flesh learned to create organs and bones ... and we never got to see the destruction of The Flesh Doctor ...


 
yeah we did, he turned to mush shortly after zapping the monster jenny.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> When Amy said that Rory was known on Earth as The Last Centurion, was that accurate? When the universe was re-booted, did all that waiting around business get left behind in the pocket universe? Does the Pandorica even exist in the 'current' universe?
> 
> And while we're at it, is the Doctor even the original Doctor, or does he just come from Amy's memory too? Is the 'original' Doctor still flying around outside of the universe?


 
this is what bothers me a bit (a lot) about the end of the last series. apparently rory remembers his 2000 years as a centurion, but i don't really understand why he remembers it, seeing as it was only an auton duplicate. ditto the doctor just reappearing from amy's memory etc. all a bit too wooly for my liking.

something that was pointed out to me the other day, is we still don't know why the tardis blew up in the first place.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> yeah we did, he turned to mush shortly after zapping the monster jenny.


The failed upgrade to the spinning jenny.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> yeah we did, he turned to mush shortly after zapping the monster jenny.



It was mush to begin with, before it formed into The Doctor. I can't think of a reason why it can't "re-form".


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> It was mush to begin with, before it formed into The Doctor. I can't think of a reason why it can't "re-form".


 
because the whole building blew up and was burnt to the ground?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> this is what bothers me a bit (a lot) about the end of the last series. apparently rory remembers his 2000 years as a centurion, but i don't really understand why he remembers it, seeing as it was only an auton duplicate. ditto the doctor just reappearing from amy's memory etc. all a bit too wooly for my liking.
> 
> something that was pointed out to me the other day, is we still don't know why the tardis blew up in the first place.


 

Ahhh I had forgotten about that. Despite my grumbles this series has been far far better, and the hatch lady peeping in had a nicely satisfying resolve even if the last episode was just a big jumble with the worlds most obvious 'twist'.


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> because the whole building blew up and was burnt to the ground?


 
There was some mention of molecular memory and it possibly not being the end though...


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 7, 2011)

... indeed. After scanning the Doctor, The Flesh, all by itself, formed the ganger version of Doctor Who, without Doctor Who being 'caged' in a consciousness-projector. We know The Flesh still exists and that others are using it  (enslaving it for their own nefarious ends, e.g. Amy, Amy & Rory's baby). The Flesh hasn't been destroyed. It could potentially reform another Doctor, providing the timeline comes after the original scanning of the Doctor. We've also no way of knowing yet how The Flesh communicates with other 'Flesh vats' or gangers created from enslaved Flesh.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 7, 2011)

Weren't the ganger Doctor's last words something like "Can we survive this....let's find out!"? I'd be suprised it it's the last we see of him, but I thought that about the Doctor's daughter.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ahhh I had forgotten about that. Despite my grumbles this series has been far far better, and the hatch lady peeping in had a nicely satisfying resolve even if the last episode was just a big jumble with the worlds most obvious 'twist'.


 
the hints i've picked up from various people involved (though nothing concrete, the bastards won't tell me outright  ) is that there are still various things from the last series yet to be resolved. obviously the whole 'silence will fall' stuff from the last series still has to be sorted out – presumably something to do with the silence who were holding captive what we assume to be child river song in the space suit.

so we're still to find out...


why the tardis blew up
why the silence were holding the child (amy's kid/river song?) captive in 1969
what the silence have to do with the whole 'silence will fall' stuff, if indeed it's something to do with them at all
who madame kovarian is
who the person in the space suit killing the doctor is
why the silence are still on earth in the present day, when they're supposed to have cleared off in 1969

there are probably lots of other things too, but that's what occurs to me immediately. i think most of that stuff is probably going to get resolved in the final six episodes. i hope it is anyway.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Weren't the ganger Doctor's last words something like "Can we survive this....let's find out!"? I'd be suprised it it's the last we see of him, but I thought that about the Doctor's daughter.


 
It sounded more like just leaving loose ends/sowing seeds for future writers to me.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Weren't the ganger Doctor's last words something like "Can we survive this....let's find out!"? I'd be suprised it it's the last we see of him, but I thought that about the Doctor's daughter.


 
and for all we know, the doctor's daughter may still come back! we've had prequels/sequels/references from stories going all the way back to the 60s, so there's no reason why she might not be picked up on again in the future


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 7, 2011)

I didn't like the Doctor's daughter much. IMO, she wasn't a very good persona, being cloned as an order-following warrior and good at back-flips but not much else.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> It sounded more like just leaving loose ends/sowing seeds for future writers to me.


 
The ganger died. Doesnt mean he didn't regenerate though. His first of many.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jun 7, 2011)

gsv said:


> View attachment 15698
> 
> "Time will run out".
> 
> GS(v)


 


Gromit said:


> The ganger died. Doesnt mean he didn't regenerate though. His first of many.


 
It would be really cool if the ganger Dr did a Frank from Hellraiser rebuilding but I think that would be a bit much for saturday teatime


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 7, 2011)

This might be interesting to Dr Who fans. It's a show by punchdrunk as part of the Manchester Festival. If you've not got a kid you'll need to borrow one. My 10 year old's going on his own, can't wait to see what he has to say.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...ure-set-for-manchester-international-festival


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

Doctor Who's been commissioned for another 14 episode season next year 

matt smith will be starring, no news on companions yet though i don't think.


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> They'll be giving us Merlin,_ Fucking Merlin_, as the stand in saturday evening fayre. And I don't and never have paid my license fee for this. Fucks sake.


Fuck off, Merlin's brilliant!  



Kaka Tim said:


> I think you're looking for 'partonising anonynous'.


Sorry, I'm looking for _what_?


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

Partonising means takling down to someone.


----------



## belboid (Jun 7, 2011)

Chip Barm said:


> This might be interesting to Dr Who fans. It's a show by punchdrunk as part of the Manchester Festival. If you've not got a kid you'll need to borrow one. My 10 year old's going on his own, can't wait to see what he has to say.
> 
> http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...ure-set-for-manchester-international-festival


 ooh, very tempting, punchdrunk are great


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 7, 2011)

belboid said:


> ooh, very tempting, punchdrunk are great



I missed the Adam Curtis show they did at the last Manchester Festival but everyone I know who saw it said it was ace. When I saw they were doing a kids thing this time I told my lad we would go then when the tickets went on sale it recommended 9-12 year olds go on their own. It sounds like a real adventure for a 10 year old, I reckon he'll love it.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

What the hell is this?!




			
				Private Eye on Twitter said:
			
		

> So. Farewell then #Doctor_Who -- full story on the chaos at the BBC (and in the Tardis) in the new issue of Private Eye.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

that's what made the BBC announce the new series. seems like a load of rubbish, hence the speedy announcement to refute it.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

*mops brow*


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 7, 2011)

Looks like Private Eye got it wrong, whatever it was. story here


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

christmas special starts filming next month (i think), then next year's series soon after that. in 2013, it'll be the 50th anniversary, so expect something special for that!


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

I think they should do a Three Doctors while Eccleston and Tennant still look about the same age. Maybe even McGann too... ooh, it would be good to see some actual Time War.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 7, 2011)

Are you suggesting that Colin Baker has let himself go rather?


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

Yes, yes I am.

Maybe Sean Pertwee could come along as - I don't know - some clone of his dad or something.

Also, get all of the McGann brothers in it.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

according to david tennant, he hasn't been asked. yet.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

Ok, I've got it: a future incarnation of the Doctor shows up and recruits Smith, Tennant and Eccleston to go back to help McGann end the Time War, but he turns out to be the Master trying to change the result of the Time War so that he is no longer trapped in there with Timothy Dalton. And the Valeyard is there too and shit. Played by Sean Pertwee.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> according to david tennant, he hasn't been asked. yet.


 
Tennant would do it, his geekery knows few bounds.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

And and and the old 'but why doesn't the Doctor remember it from the previous times?' question is answered by some sort of new thing that the Master has invented, which is then somehow passed on to the Silence. In the past.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> Ok, I've got it: a future incarnation of the Doctor shows up and recruits Smith, Tennant and Eccleston to go back to help McGann end the Time War, but he turns out to be the Master trying to change the result of the Time War so that he is no longer trapped in there with Timothy Dalton. And the Valeyard is there too and shit. Played by Sean Pertwee.


 
sounds like a winner to me!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 7, 2011)

davros riding a giant spider while a sontaran fights a wryyn. Amy pouts.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Tennant would do it, his geekery knows few bounds.


 
yeah, i think he said it with a smile. he'd do it.

tbf though, i think only moffat and maybe one or two others have any idea what's being planned for the anniversary and that probably won't change until sometime next year.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

OR... it is not the Master it is the Valeyard after all. That would fit in with the Doctor becoming all warrior-like and a byword for destruction.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> yeah, i think he said it with a smile. he'd do it.
> 
> tbf though, i think only moffat and maybe one or two others have any idea what's being planned for the anniversary and that probably won't change until sometime next year.


 
Tell him to give me a call. I'll also throw in my idea for another TARDIS-based episode.


----------



## strung out (Jun 7, 2011)

tbf, if you hang around Doctor Who fandom for long enough, then you probably will end up writing for it in a few years. it worked for Moffat and Davies. i mean ffs, a fan even managed to play the doctor


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

Idea for scene: Doctors 9 to 11 are sitting around with the future Doctor/Master/Valeyard, who is explaining the need to travel back to the last moments of the Time War, and Tennant says 'We can't go there, it's Timelocked' (with the curious thick 't' he always used) and all the others roll their eyes because everyone knows you can go anywhere you fucking well like in Doctor Who.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2011)

that reminds me how annoyed i was   that  they fucking  wasted  rassilon

the big question mark behind the  time lords the  enigmatic player of games the figure of mystery

wasted.    he didn't  do anything except be a nasty timelord.   we could have  anyone do that     they gave the character no mystery or elegance or depth.

they fucking shat on that character.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> tbf, if you hang around Doctor Who fandom for long enough, then you probably will end up writing for it in a few years. it worked for Moffat and Davies. i mean ffs, a fan even managed to play the doctor


 
I haven't got time for that. 

Also, tell George Lucas to call me re: Star Wars sequel trilogy.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 7, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Are you suggesting that Colin Baker has let himself go rather?


 
He was letting himself go while he was still doctoring. It was like trying to hide a baby by the end.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> And and and the old 'but why doesn't the Doctor remember it from the previous times?' question is answered by some sort of new thing that the Master has invented, which is then somehow passed on to the Silence. In the past.


 
Don't they say it's something outside of time or what have you.


----------



## belboid (Jun 8, 2011)

_that_ Private Eye story.  I'd be less likely to believe it if the beeb hadn't issued an (effective) denial of a completely different story.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 9, 2011)

Moffat said the Private Eye story was a load of rubbish- I suspect if it was true he would have opted for a 'no comment'.


----------



## strung out (Jun 9, 2011)

belboid said:


> _that_ Private Eye story.  I'd be less likely to believe it if the beeb hadn't issued an (effective) denial of a completely different story.


 
eh? most of the stuff in that (budget restraints and people leaving etc) is fairly common knowledge. the story about just pushing out four specials next year instead of a full series was complete cobblers though, hence the swift denial by announcing an expanded (14 episodes instead of 13) series for next year.

as moffat has said, it's just horrible gossip, coupled with a few fairly well known facts and one giant lie to make a sensational story that there was never any truth in anyway.


----------



## belboid (Jun 9, 2011)

cos Moffat would never make anything up....


----------



## strung out (Jun 9, 2011)

maybe he would, but the evidence i've heard from people close to the show certainly doesn't bear out any of the rumours that have been going round about cancellations, shortened seasons and staff fall-outs.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 9, 2011)

Picking up on a few things said on DW message boards, I wonder if they're finally giving serious consideration to moving all 14 episodes to autumn/winter next year. Maybe showing six one side of the Christmas special and the rest at the start of 2013. This year's scheduling, where six new episodes will be shown from September (presumably), could be a dry run for that move.

By the way, the manner in which some of the crazies over at Outpost Gallifrey have turned on Moffat is depressing and yet strangely hilarious. Two years ago the exact same people were slagging of RT Davies and demanding the Moff take over immediately. Who fans are never satisfied and a worrying number of them are barking bloody mad.


----------



## strung out (Jun 9, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> Picking up on a few things said on DW message boards, I wonder if they're finally giving serious consideration to moving all 14 episodes to autumn/winter next year. Maybe showing six one side of the Christmas special and the rest at the start of 2013. This year's scheduling, where six new episodes will be shown from September (presumably), could be a dry run for that move.
> 
> By the way, the manner in which some of the crazies over at Outpost Gallifrey have turned on Moffat is depressing and yet strangely hilarious. Two years ago the exact same people were slagging of RT Davies and demanding the Moff take over immediately. Who fans are never satisfied and a worrying number of them are barking bloody mad.


 
there a lot of absolute morons on outpost gallifrey


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 9, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> that reminds me how annoyed i was   that  they fucking  wasted  rassilon
> 
> the big question mark behind the  time lords the  enigmatic player of games the figure of mystery
> 
> ...



Still more gravitas than the pantomime apparition from 5 Doctors...


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 9, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> Picking up on a few things said on DW message boards, I wonder if they're finally giving serious consideration to moving all 14 episodes to autumn/winter next year. Maybe showing six one side of the Christmas special and the rest at the start of 2013. This year's scheduling, where six new episodes will be shown from September (presumably), could be a dry run for that move.



That would near enough make it all into one solid run through xmas into easter....


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 9, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Still more gravitas than the pantomime apparition from 5 Doctors...


 



=





the whole of the 5 doctors was Rassilon trolling the time lords


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 9, 2011)

I fucking loved the 5 doctors at the time, it looks like the sodding adventure game today.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 9, 2011)




----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 9, 2011)

They released a special edition version of The Five Doctors, with updated special effects, in the '90s which I have.  I still think the twist at the end is rather neat.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 9, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


>




Yeah thats the best bit. They should bring him back. 
I have the first DVD, maybe I should get the new one for the interviews.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 9, 2011)

That video made me look up Die Antwoord again and I found out the chap with progeria who appears in their videos died a couple of days ago.


----------



## Santino (Jun 10, 2011)

That last episode contained the words 'stars', 'war', 'phantom', 'clone', 'hope' and 'empire'. I think River may have said 'return' too but I wasn't listening properly.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 10, 2011)

Nerds will be nerds.


----------



## Cloo (Jun 11, 2011)

After the baby's born, I'm changing my tag to 'Big milk thing'


----------



## fogbat (Jun 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Partonising means takling down to someone.


 
Do you, too, have a secret desire to wear enormous fake breasts, a blonde wig, and bawl out C&W hits?

Come to Partonising Anonymous, where we offer a discreet, friendly, judgement-free service.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 11, 2011)

Damn your eyes for making me cough again!


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jun 11, 2011)

. dp


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jun 11, 2011)

Cloo said:


> After the baby's born, I'm changing my tag to 'Big milk thing'


 
 this is cool


----------



## strung out (Jun 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> eh? most of the stuff in that (budget restraints and people leaving etc) is fairly common knowledge. the story about just pushing out four specials next year instead of a full series was complete cobblers though, hence the swift denial by announcing an expanded (14 episodes instead of 13) series for next year.
> 
> as moffat has said, it's just horrible gossip, coupled with a few fairly well known facts and one giant lie to make a sensational story that there was never any truth in anyway.


 
looks like i might need to retract some of this...

apparently it was confirmed today that although 14 new episodes have been commissioned, not all of them will air next year. what that will mean in practise, i'm not sure but there won't be a full season next year. most likely only a half season, with the other half in 2013 along with the 50th anniversary specials etc. i'm just speculating on some of that though.


----------



## Corax (Jun 14, 2011)

If there was ever a reason for revolution, this is it.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> looks like i might need to retract some of this...
> 
> apparently it was confirmed today that although 14 new episodes have been commissioned, not all of them will air next year. what that will mean in practise, i'm not sure but there won't be a full season next year. most likely only a half season, with the other half in 2013 along with the 50th anniversary specials etc. i'm just speculating on some of that though.



So....7 episodes next Autumn. A Christmas special, and 7 episodes in 2013? Crap.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jun 14, 2011)

Cloo said:


> After the baby's born, I'm changing my tag to 'Big milk thing'


----------



## strung out (Jun 15, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> So....7 episodes next Autumn. A Christmas special, and 7 episodes in 2013? Crap.


 
not sure tbh. this is all from a talk some bbc exec was giving earlier today and there hasn't been anything official. there will definitely be something big in 2013 for the anniversary, but how that fits into the already confirmed 14 episodes, next years schedule and any possible specials, i have no idea.


----------



## strung out (Jun 15, 2011)

latest comment from moffat...



> Dr Who: misquotes and misunderstandings. But I'm not being bounced into announcing the cool stuff before we're ready. Hush, and patience.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 15, 2011)

strung out said:


> latest comment from moffat...


 
Moffat's enjoying being the worlds biggest troll recently


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 16, 2011)

BBC One Controller says less Dr. Who because of Sherlock; Moffat says different....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13784334


----------



## Augie March (Jun 16, 2011)

Oh FFS, just merge the two shows together and be done with it. We all know Moffat's Holmes and Doctor are the same character anyway.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 16, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Oh FFS, just merge the two shows together and be done with it. We all know Moffat's Holmes and Doctor are the same character anyway.


 
*explodes with warp star energy*


----------



## Santino (Jun 20, 2011)

Did we ever find out why Amy doesn't remember the Daleks?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 20, 2011)

because fuck continuity?


besides   the whole  dalek thing caused  more continuity  problems  than   just about anything else  


best  we sweep it under the carpet for now


----------



## Santino (Jun 20, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> because fuck continuity?
> 
> 
> besides   the whole  dalek thing caused  more continuity  problems  than   just about anything else
> ...


 
No, they made a specific point that she didn't remember them. Other people did, like Adelaide Brook from Mars.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 21, 2011)

might  be a  way  of  transitioning  out  of  the old series  continuity.  big changes have happened.   tennant universe  had  dalek planet stealing  but   due to crack stuff   smith universe didn't  have  dalek planet stealing.   amy and rory's  earth was never stolen       wierd shit from previous  series  now in dustbin


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> might  be a  way  of  transitioning  out  of  the old series  continuity.  big changes have happened.   tennant universe  had  dalek planet stealing  but   due to crack stuff   smith universe didn't  have  dalek planet stealing.   amy and rory's  earth was never stolen       wierd shit from previous  series  now in dustbin


 
Basically Moffat going 'fucks sake RTD, your over bombastic approach to the series caused more continuity shit than the whole of 63 to 89'


----------



## belboid (Jun 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> Did we ever find out why Amy doesn't remember the Daleks?


 
is this full of shit, or just full of holes?

http://drwho.answers.wikia.com/wiki/Why_doesn't_Amy_remember_the_Daleks


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 21, 2011)

well i don't know about that....     does amy remeber  the  auton invasion or  the  dinosaurs in london or the time nessie  swam up the Thames


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2011)

belboid said:


> is this full of shit, or just full of holes?
> 
> http://drwho.answers.wikia.com/wiki/Why_doesn't_Amy_remember_the_Daleks


 
Full of shit. That's like a magic reason. 
Amy (like the good reasoning in back to the future) went down a different time line so should not have forgotten her own timeline. Like the bad reasoning in back to the future (people fading away in photographs) Amy's memory was 'magically' altered after events along her own experience. Daft and pointless.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 21, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> does amy remeber  the  auton invasion or  the  dinosaurs in london or the time nessie  swam up the Thames


Fuck it, _I_ don't remember that  Was that RTD/Moffat era, or before I started watching?


----------



## Santino (Jun 21, 2011)

Anything before the Time War can be discounted because the Time War fucked everything.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 21, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> Fuck it, _I_ don't remember that  Was that RTD/Moffat era, or before I started watching?


 
thats  classic who


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> Anything before the Time War can be discounted because the Time War fucked everything.


 
but  this stuff had sara jane in it ...  you know  he  one  who had a spin off


technically this  also means  k9 and  company is real


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 21, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Full of shit. That's like a magic reason.
> Amy (like the good reasoning in back to the future) went down a different time line so should not have forgotten her own timeline. Like the bad reasoning in back to the future (people fading away in photographs) Amy's memory was 'magically' altered after events along her own experience. Daft and pointless.


 
There have been some wry nods to the daftness of it all in the show recently. Like the doctor wondering why history didn't bother recording the giant cyberman stomping through 19th century London...


----------



## Santino (Jun 21, 2011)

It was the Silence brainwashing people all along. Just pop into view on the news, say 'There never were any aliens', pop behind the camera again and, presto!, global amnesia.


----------



## Corax (Jun 21, 2011)

I love how people will suspend their disbelief on some things like, say, time travel, but then declare perceived faults in the internal logic as ridiculous.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 21, 2011)

What's wrong with that? Both internal consistency and entertaining counterfactual propositions are essential in fiction.


----------



## Pingu (Jun 22, 2011)

so the dr gave pond the equivilant of some galifrayan rhohypnol then?


----------



## killer b (Jul 9, 2011)

this is pretty


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 9, 2011)

Where is it from?


----------



## killer b (Jul 9, 2011)

not sure. a friend just linked to it on fb or somewhere. 

i'll ask him.


----------



## killer b (Jul 9, 2011)

fan art, apparently. very nicely done though, imo.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 9, 2011)

Yes, fun idea and well executed pastiche. The Tardis would look quite good in classic willow pattern, if he's stuck for his next trick.


----------



## Helen Back (Jul 9, 2011)

There have been a number of alien threats the general public would have been aware of in the show's run. The first was The Dalek Invasion Of Earth with Hartnell although that was set in the future. Hartnell also saw Mondas and the Cyber invasion in 1986. 

Then Troughton saw Cybermen on the moon, the Ice Warriors in both the future and the near-future, the Yetis in the underground and The Cybermen Invasion. 

Then Pertwee arrived exiled to Earth and all hell broke loose.


----------



## Santino (Jul 9, 2011)

Anything before the Time War can't be relied on.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Where is it from?


 
Feudal Japan would be my guess.

Explains much about their modern love of robots.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 10, 2011)

killer b said:


> this is pretty


 
And they actually bothered to get the Japanese text right. 
Not sure why it mentions the doctor in his absence though.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 10, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> And they actually bothered to get the Japanese text right.
> Not sure why it mentions the doctor in his absence though.


 
Would you mind giving a translation, please?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 10, 2011)

It's not very exciting I am afraid.
From right to left

Doctor
Cybermans revenge / encounter
Galifray
Madame Basutora
Tardis
Servant

And I can't read the last one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2011)

how do you express an english acronym TARDIS in japanese?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 10, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> how do you express an english acronym TARDIS in japanese?


 
It's always known as the Tardis, it's as good as a name. ターヂイス Ta-DiiSu.
IMaybe it's a bit like UFO in Japanese which is said as a word (Ufo) rather than separate letters and specifically means 'alien space craft' rather than an undefined object.


----------



## strung out (Jul 10, 2011)

killer b said:


> this is pretty


 
i really really like that. i've saved it for later.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 10, 2011)

I think it's good that they did the 80s cybermen and not the shit arse new ones. 
I don't know who this Basutora lady is.


----------



## strung out (Jul 10, 2011)

those are probably my favourite type of cybermen. the lady is the silurian from 'A Good Man Goes to War' (the last episode before the mid-season break) with her girlfriend as the other lady i think?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2011)

strung out said:


> i really really like that. i've saved it for later.


 
It's my iPad lock screen now.


----------



## killer b (Jul 10, 2011)

here's the full size version

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5918323885_45f3c8e59e_o.jpg


----------



## killer b (Jul 10, 2011)

strung out said:


> the lady is the silurian from 'A Good Man Goes to War' (the last episode before the mid-season break) with her girlfriend as the other lady i think?


 
yep.


----------



## strung out (Jul 10, 2011)

brilliant. thanks for posting!


----------



## strung out (Jul 10, 2011)

for AS


----------



## killer b (Jul 10, 2011)

they were the best thing about the episode tbh.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 10, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's not very exciting I am afraid.
> From right to left
> 
> Doctor
> ...


 
Cheers!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2011)

like how the silurians are bringing sexy back. In the day they were not in any way attractive


----------



## strung out (Jul 10, 2011)

oh and the silurian is called madame vastra in the show, rather than basutora. her girlfriend is called jenny.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 10, 2011)

killer b said:


> here's the full size version
> 
> http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5918323885_45f3c8e59e_o.jpg


 
Ah, I can read the last one now. 

Jennifer. ジェニファー


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 10, 2011)

strung out said:


> oh and the silurian is called madame vastra in the show, rather than basutora. her girlfriend is called jenny.


 
Va and Ba in Japanese are the same. Like Ri and Li.
I just wrote out Ba Su To Ra as it was written in Japanese because I didn't know what it was supposed to be.
For instance I know DoKuTaa is Doctor.


----------



## seeformiles (Jul 12, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> thats  classic who




Now that's proper Dr Who! One of the first ones I remember (along with "The Green Death")


----------



## strung out (Jul 18, 2011)

whoever made this is not only a doctor who nerd, but a complete tube nerd too

http://londonist.com/2011/07/alternative-tube-maps-doctor-who.php


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 24, 2011)

While we're on the subject of Doctor Who nerdery, how wholesome a name for a publishing company does Mad Norwegian sound now?


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jul 25, 2011)

Rory punching Hitler?!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00jb05r


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 25, 2011)

Looks like fun.


----------



## strung out (Jul 25, 2011)

karen gillan's signed up for next year btw


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 25, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> While we're on the subject of Doctor Who nerdery, how wholesome a name for a publishing company does Mad Norwegian sound now?


 
It's all right, apparently he wasn't mentally ill, and was very calm throughout if one is using the American meaning. I'm sure that will be fine.


----------



## Augie March (Jul 25, 2011)

[video]http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00jcqqq[/video]

Trailer for episode 11, The God Complex written by Toby Whitehouse. Looks suitably weird and un-nerving.

"Don't talk to the clown!"


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 25, 2011)

Augie March said:


> [video]http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00jcqqq[/video]
> 
> Trailer for episode 11, The God Complex written by Toby Whitehouse. Looks suitably weird and un-nerving.
> 
> "Don't talk to the clown!"


 that does look good. shameless hotel corridor nods to the shining, obv.

(who's toby whitehouse?)


----------



## Augie March (Jul 25, 2011)

He created Being Human and also wrote the Vampires of Venice episode, which was OK but I have hopes that this one will better it.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 1, 2011)

I am just rewatching the season five finale on iplayer. River doesn't know who rory is. doesn't recognise him, seems unaware that amy should come with a bloke.  I am terribly concerned that this means rory's days are numbered.  rory is the best companion ever.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 1, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> I am just rewatching the season five finale on iplayer. River doesn't know who rory is. doesn't recognise him, seems unaware that amy should come with a bloke.


That was just a phase.  My teen daughter's going through it at the moment...


----------



## killer b (Aug 1, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> that does look good. shameless hotel corridor nods to the shining, obv.


 
surely a cheeky nod to karen gillan's new york antics?


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 1, 2011)

killer b said:


> surely a cheeky nod to karen gillan's new york antics?


 
do tell...


----------



## strung out (Aug 1, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> I am just rewatching the season five finale on iplayer. River doesn't know who rory is. doesn't recognise him, seems unaware that amy should come with a bloke.  I am terribly concerned that this means rory's days are numbered.  rory is the best companion ever.


 
i'm fairly sure that river knows that rory's her dad.


----------



## strung out (Aug 1, 2011)

also, new Doctor Who this month


----------



## Balbi (Aug 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> also, new Doctor Who this month


 
eh?


----------



## strung out (Aug 2, 2011)

new Doctor Who on telly this month!

edit: actually, not confirmed, but close enough


----------



## strung out (Aug 2, 2011)

.


----------



## 8den (Aug 2, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> do tell...


 


> Doctor Who star Karen Gillan was found naked in a New York hotel corridor after a night of riotous partying.
> 
> Miss Gillan, 23, who plays the Time Lord’s assistant Amy Pond, was seen ‘whimpering’ in the nude by guests at 7am before security arrived, wrapped her in a sheet and escorted her to her room.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...aren-Gillan-naked-riotous-New-York-party.html


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 2, 2011)

He didn't open the door?

\
He could clearly see she had no weapons on her.


----------



## andy2002 (Aug 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> new Doctor Who on telly this month!
> 
> edit: actually, not confirmed, but close enough


 
It starts in the States on August 27, a Saturday, so I imagine we'll get it the same night.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 5, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> He didn't open the door?
> 
> \
> He could clearly see she had no weapons on her.


 
Someone commented on the article along the lines of how is this news?

A man didn't open the door to a drunken naked Karen Gillan?
Thats news to me along the lines of aliens landing in Central Park kind. If its really happend I still don't believe it.

Its like winning the lottery and tearing up the ticket except with a naked women rather than millions in dosh.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 5, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Someone commented on the article along the lines of how is this news?
> 
> A man didn't open the door to a drunken naked Karen Gillan?
> Thats news to me along the lines of aliens landing in Central Park kind. If its really happend I still don't believe it.
> ...


----------



## Helen Back (Aug 10, 2011)

"There are pockets of our society that are not just broken, but are frankly sick. And what this country really needs - right now - is a Doctor" *

* is what he should have said


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 18, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/news/bulletin_110817_01/Lets_Kill_Hitler



but SPOILERS....


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 19, 2011)

"It is normal to experience fear during your incineration"


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 26, 2011)

Heads up - there's a piece about the new series on BBC Breakfast (BBC1) coming up at 9.05am


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 26, 2011)

BBC breakfast? I bet it's rubbish.


----------



## strung out (Aug 26, 2011)

yep. the moron presenter said "I don't even watch your show, but I've heard it's too complicated" to karen gillan.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 27, 2011)

not long til Hitler time!


----------



## Corax (Aug 27, 2011)

Yey Hitler!


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 27, 2011)

I'm on the warm-up run...

http://www.letmewatchthis.ch/watch-5134-Doctor-Who-2005


----------



## Santino (Aug 27, 2011)

Isn't there some old Doctor Who story where Hitler is an alien anyway?


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

Rory had the best lines.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

i'm a bit wtf with river's personal timeline now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2011)

putting hitler in the cupboard was funny


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i'm a bit wtf with river's personal timeline now.



Born, brainwashed -cared for in the orphanage, escapes the spaceman - regenerates in New York, lives 20 years, regens into Mel in about 1984, lives with Rory and Amy till todays episode, regens into River Song - uses up remaining regens, deposited in far future - becomes archaeologist - at some point in the future spaceman happens and the justice department put her in stormcage - from there on out, everything else happens.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 27, 2011)

pretty good , a few answers but a load more wtf?? lol


----------



## goldenecitrone (Aug 27, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> putting hitler in the cupboard was funny



Not enough Hess flying to Scotland gags. Or did that come at the end, after all the Caberet references.


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

Also, for fandoms sake.







Rose - Oh yes, GUILT. Martha - more guilt! Donna - and more guilt!


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

baby melody is born and kidnapped by eyepatch woman, working for the silence at some point in the future
?????
she is a small girl, regenerating in NYC in the 1960s
next regeneration she is also a young child of around 8, and must've been in the late 1980s - this time mixed race - "mels". she somehow finds the young amy and rory
spends ten or more years growing up with her parents.
present day, she meets the doctor and travels to 1938, where she gets shot, regenerates into the final River Song, and kills the doctor because of her brainwashing (why hasn't this happened earlier? when amy and rory initially met the doctor?)
saves doctor, using up her regenerations. left in hospital in future with empty diary.
?????
battle of demons run
doctor and river kiss (his beginnings are my endings)
weeping angels two parter
library two parter - river dies.

now - i assume we'll find out what happened in the earliest mystery period

BUT

if the doctor and river's timelines are running in opposite directions, when does he have all the adventures in the tardis book with her?


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

He's picked it up from where he left it in the Library.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2011)

I  thought it was quit good that they played hitler for lols then got rid of him- its like writing the devil, if he's not out of the way quickly then he'd have been either stupidly written or end up dominating the story.

I await the inevitable Downfall parody youtube clip


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

Rory punching Hitler, and his 'HEIL HITLER' *thump* continue his steel from A Good Man Goes To War. I like active clever Rory better than slightly wet Rory.


----------



## DexterTCN (Aug 27, 2011)

Well that was fucking ace.   A real rollercoaster.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2011)

Alex Kingston in nazi uniform kicking peoples arses should keep max mosely going for weeks


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2011)

I was a bit baffled, but you can't go wrong with Hitler in a cupboard.


----------



## junglevip (Aug 27, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Alex Kingston in nazi uniform kicking peoples arses should keep max mosely going for weeks



I if he was licking peoples arses then possibly months


----------



## Santino (Aug 27, 2011)

"Shut up, Hitler!"


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> He's picked it up from where he left it in the Library.


It was clearly brand new when he left it her in hospital.


----------



## Stigmata (Aug 27, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> if the doctor and river's timelines are running in opposite directions, when does he have all the adventures in the tardis book with her?



Despite what they've said they're probably not exactly opposite. It's just a tendency.


----------



## Santino (Aug 27, 2011)

I notice they've introduced another method whereby someone who looks like the Doctor could be killed instead of the Doctor.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 27, 2011)

Fair enough episode, entertaining and stopped my daughter from eating her dinner.

I didn't like the bit where river said she would gradually make herself a little younger as time went on to magically make up for the face that she was younger when she filmed her older bits. Who gives a shit, it make believe telly.

Oh, and why did river say "you look younger" to Tennant if she only knew Matt Smith?  I wouldn't mind if it were not for the other heavy arse covering in my last comment.


----------



## Santino (Aug 27, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, and why did river say "you look younger" to Tennant if she only knew Matt Smith?  I wouldn't mind if it were not for the other heavy arse covering in my last comment.


Because they didn't know when the actor would change. You do know that they're not real time travellers?


----------



## strung out (Aug 27, 2011)

my theory is that the doctor killed by the astronaut isn't really from 200 years in the future at all. after all, as he said in this episode himself, the doctor lies.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> He's picked it up from where he left it in the Library.


no he hasn't. that book was old and full - this is brand new


----------



## lizzieloo (Aug 27, 2011)

I missed the whole last series, will I know what's going on? How important is the "soap" aspect?


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> Despite what they've said they're probably not exactly opposite. It's just a tendency.



well it will have to be - but i don't buy it and it seems like poor writing.


ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, and why did river say "you look younger" to Tennant if she only knew Matt Smith? I wouldn't mind if it were not for the other heavy arse covering in my last comment.



i thought she was referring to the fact that his soul, or whatever, is younger - it hasn't been through so much.


----------



## Stigmata (Aug 27, 2011)

It's important for episode 1, but I think from now on it'll be less of an issue.


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> It was clearly brand new when he left it her in hospital.



And she will carry it through her future to the Library, where she will die - Tennant leaves it there. Smith picks it up, and meets River at the parts of the time stream she's already written as happened so she can fill in the book he's reading from.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

Santino said:


> I notice they've introduced another method whereby someone who looks like the Doctor could be killed instead of the Doctor.


yes - rewatching the almost people the other day - his flesh avatar says something like "it still has my dna coding - this may not be the last you'll see of me" before sonic-ing himself to death.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> And she will carry it through her future to the Library, where she will die - Tennant leaves it there. Smith picks it up, and meets River at the parts of the time stream she's already written as happened so she can fill in the book he's reading from.


why?


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

Because she was taken and lost because of him - she's told him of all the things they will do - he bears the responsibility to make her fantastic life happen.

Also note, future doctor in the impossible astronaut checked HIS diary. Younger doctor didn't.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Because she was taken and lost because of him - she's told him of all the things they will do - he bears the responsibility to make her fantastic life happen.
> 
> Also note, future doctor in the impossible astronaut checked HIS diary. Younger doctor didn't.


i meant - why unnecessarily complicate the plot like that? it works with the simple explanation: she's been given an empty tardis book. she fills it up gradually over the years. she dies in the library. the doctor chooses not to read it because it would be pretty fucking dreadful spoilers.

if your theory were true, he'd have known how all their adventures were going to pan out.


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

The tenth doctor chooses not to, because she is from his future. The eleventh, having been witness to her regeneration etc, is now almost current with her - and may need to meet her at the key points of her life. Her future, is now his past in many respects to his timeline. Until now she has held the spoiler card, with this episode, it changes over to the Doctor.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> The tenth doctor chooses not to, because she is from his future. The eleventh, having been witness to her regeneration etc, is now almost current with her - and may need to meet her at the key points of her life. Her future, is now his past in many respects to his timeline. Until now she has held the spoiler card, with this episode, it changes over to the Doctor.


still don't see any point to it, plotwise.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

btw - rory has had a subtly different hairstyle over the summer - it's a richer colour and is slightly more styled. i like.


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

Allows the Doctor the upper hand, demonstrates his compassion and the wonderful life he can give to Amy and Rory's daughter.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> And she will carry it through her future to the Library, where she will die - Tennant leaves it there. Smith picks it up, and meets River at the parts of the time stream she's already written as happened so she can fill in the book he's reading from.


Wouldn't it have writing in it already then?


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> btw - rory has had a subtly different hairstyle over the summer - it's a richer colour and is slightly more styled. i like.



Rory's a character that's actually developed. Amy's still a cardboard cutout.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 27, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> Well that was fucking ace. A real rollercoaster.



This ^^^ and fucking funny too.

Brilliant.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Rory's a character that's actually developed. Amy's still a cardboard cutout.


I still expect another 'oh noes, you killed Rory' moment before the end of the season.


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Wouldn't it have writing in it already then?



Smith's given her the 'new' one. Tennant recovers the old one. Smith then goes and gets the old one after he's given River the new one. Wibbly wobbly.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

Ok - it occurred to me... it can't be river/melody in the space suit killing the doctor in arizona, because she'd remember it as an adult. and she doesn't.

her flesh avatar?


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 27, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> Ok - it occurred to me... it can't be river/melody in the space suit killing the doctor in arizona, because she'd remember it as an adult. and she doesn't.
> 
> her flesh avatar?


How do you know she doesn't remember?


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> How do you know she doesn't remember?


cos i watched it again and she doesn't. she doesn't recognise the place, she's shocked when it happens...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 27, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> putting hitler in the cupboard was funny



When they said that, I was eally hoping Hitler would protest along the lines of "Nein, not ze cupboard! Mutti used to put me in ze cupboard when she caught me touching my _pimmel_!".

It would have explained so much!!


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 27, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> Ok - it occurred to me... it can't be river/melody in the space suit killing the doctor in arizona, because she'd remember it as an adult. and she doesn't.
> 
> her flesh avatar?



those with the no avatars skin on here will never know!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 27, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Fair enough episode, entertaining and stopped my daughter from eating her dinner.
> 
> I didn't like the bit where river said she would gradually make herself a little younger as time went on to magically make up for the face that she was younger when she filmed her older bits. Who gives a shit, it make believe telly.
> 
> Oh, and why did river say "you look younger" to Tennant if she only knew Matt Smith? I wouldn't mind if it were not for the other heavy arse covering in my last comment.



She explained that by saying she meant his (Tennant's Doctor) eyes looked more innocent, didn't she?


----------



## rollinder (Aug 27, 2011)

strung out said:


> my theory is that the doctor killed by the astronaut isn't really from 200 years in the future at all. after all, as he said in this episode himself, the doctor lies.



remember future River Song echoing that at the end of last series just after discovering he wasn't quite as dead as he'd claimed. - this isn't the first time he's used that lie.



Spoiler: spoiler for speculation



Any one else think the Doctor's deliberately faked/will fake his own death in the future - pos in order to catch out the enemy / put them off his scent, deliberatly used Rory & Amy etc to make sure he had witnesses, people who'd believe he was dead.
and Canton Everett Delaware the Third had obviously been prepped with his "definitely the doctor and he's definitely dead" and burning the body thing, so was/is either in on it or had been set up/tricked by The Doctor.

That's probably the obvious theory and the reality'll be something far more compilcated


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 28, 2011)

That was an excellent episode, wasn't to sure when I heard the title originally but it was entertaining and funny and this makes me happy.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 28, 2011)

rollinder said:


> remember future River Song echoing that at the end of last series just after discovering he wasn't quite as dead as he'd claimed. - this isn't the first time he's used that lie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was thinking along similar lines myself.


----------



## killer b (Aug 28, 2011)

when the dr got shot in the middle of a regeneration, he 'died'
when river song got shot in the middle of a regeneration, she mowed down a phalanx of nazis with pure energy from her fingertips.

i'm assuming there's some significance to this.


----------



## Santino (Aug 28, 2011)

Getting shot shortly after a regeneration is different to getting shot just as it kicks in. David Remnant got his hand chopped off just after regenerating and was able to grow it back, so there is some consistency.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 28, 2011)

I thought that was terrible.  Really bitty and convoluted, and they really squandered the Hitler thing.  It was funny when they put him in the cupboard, but then there was no further use for him in the "plot".  The loose ends that were tied up looked just like that - loose ends being tied up.  I did like the robot person with tiny people inside, though.

I'm a huge fan of New Who,  so I'm hoping this was was aberration and not an indication of what's to come.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 28, 2011)

killer b said:


> when the dr got shot in the middle of a regeneration, he 'died'
> when river song got shot in the middle of a regeneration, she mowed down a phalanx of nazis with pure energy from her fingertips.
> 
> i'm assuming there's some significance to this.


It was her time of the Aeon.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 28, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> I still expect another 'oh noes, you killed Rory' moment before the end of the season.


In the "Next Time" bit Rory does say "So we're dead, again"...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 28, 2011)

Santino said:


> Because they didn't know when the actor would change. You do know that they're not real time travellers?


Yeah, I know. My point is that they bother covering up the fact that the actors age but leave other bigger and clunkyer points alone. Dr Who is riddled with inaccuracies, and nobody gives a shit. As long as it's a good story who cares.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 28, 2011)

strung out said:


> my theory is that the doctor killed by the astronaut isn't really from 200 years in the future at all. after all, as he said in this episode himself, the doctor lies.


My guess is that they are not going to stop making a successful series and leave it with an ending that nobody can ever come back to.
They also probably won't let the series end with an ending that we have already seen at the beginning.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 28, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> well it will have to be - but i don't buy it and it seems like poor writing.
> 
> i thought she was referring to the fact that his soul, or whatever, is younger - it hasn't been through so much.


Nice catch!


----------



## Balbi (Aug 28, 2011)

Oh get in the cupboard A_S.


----------



## binka (Aug 28, 2011)

well i enjoyed it. liked the robot with people inside and rory's line 'it was a miniaturisation ray' 'how do you know that?' 'well it was a ray and we were miniaturised'.

when the crew in the robot said 'forget hitler we've found a much bigger war criminal' i thought it was going to be the doctor considering the end of the previous series had the entire univerise ganging up to get rid of him and there was something this series about the word doctor meaning warriror to some people due to te death and destruction the doctor always brings with him. but i suppose that would have been rehashing previous plots


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2011)

I said 'oh wow do you think that robot is related somehow to the megaran justice machines from old Who?'

the dog wasn't sure either


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 28, 2011)

binka said:


> well i enjoyed it. liked the robot with people inside and rory's line 'it was a miniaturisation ray' 'how do you know that?' 'well it was a ray and we were miniaturised'.
> 
> when the crew in the robot said 'forget hitler we've found a much bigger war criminal' i thought it was going to be the doctor considering the end of the previous series had the entire univerise ganging up to get rid of him and there was something this series about the word doctor meaning warriror to some people due to te death and destruction the doctor always brings with him. but i suppose that would have been rehashing previous plots


or the fact that he killed all the other timelords?


----------



## strung out (Aug 28, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> My guess is that they are not going to stop making a successful series and leave it with an ending that nobody can ever come back to.
> They also probably won't let the series end with an ending that we have already seen at the beginning.


well obviously


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 28, 2011)

I was being sarky


----------



## strung out (Aug 28, 2011)

no, really?


----------



## strung out (Aug 28, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> or the fact that he killed all the other timelords?


he didn't kill them all though, they're just in a time lock


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 28, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> or the fact that he killed all the other timelords?



He didn't kill them, he time-locked the Time War, hence Rassilon _et al_ trying to make a comeback in Tennant's _finale_ episode.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 28, 2011)

Snap!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 28, 2011)

strung out said:


> no, really?


Hey look we are all at it now.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 28, 2011)

No, he killed them. Proper dead. The time lock just prevented people from traveling back into past where the time war happened. The time lords in the end of time were attempting to find a way out of the time war before the (8th?)Doctor could destroy them. Last nights episode was ok. Could have been better. Another line for the geeks about the state  of temporal grace.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2011)

did anyone clock the line 'stories about me? what about the vampires of venice, that was a corker' or similar?

lol- same writer


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 28, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> did anyone clock the line 'stories about me? what about the vampires of venice, that was a corker' or similar?
> 
> lol- same writer


Well, whoever it was has gone downhill, then.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, whoever it was has gone downhill, then.


 
creator of being human. You like being human.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 28, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> creator of being human. You like being human.


I do.  And I like Dr Who. (Well, New Who).  And I liked the Vampires of Venice.  But I thought last night's episode was a mess.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2011)

it was a bit messy yes but I'd argue that the writer here was constrained by having to do a lot of plot resolution for stuff he didn't write himself and so was hamstrung slightly in the creative vision department unlike VoV when he more or less had a free hand.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 28, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> it was a bit messy yes but I'd argue that the writer here was constrained by having to do a lot of plot resolution for stuff he didn't write himself and so was hamstrung slightly in the creative vision department unlike VoV when he more or less had a free hand.


I agree.  But that's what it came across like - a load of loose ends being tied up, rather than a story.


----------



## Santino (Aug 28, 2011)

That's the second time this series that the sexy fish vampires have been mentioned for no real reason. I wonder if something from that episode will be important later on.


----------



## strung out (Aug 28, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> No, he killed them. Proper dead. The time lock just prevented people from traveling back into past where the time war happened. The time lords in the end of time were attempting to find a way out of the time war before the (8th?)Doctor could destroy them.


the doctor didn't kill the time lords, he just sealed them in a time lock


----------



## strung out (Aug 28, 2011)

Santino said:


> That's the second time this series that the sexy fish vampires have been mentioned for no real reason. I wonder if something from that episode will be important later on.


do you remember that the fish vampires were fleeing from 'the silence'? i can't remember the exact line, but they were definitely running from it/them.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2011)

Hadn't he already burned them all- 'I watched them all burn' alongside the daleks? so the time lock was to prevent pre-annahilation time travellers sneakily getting around the whole being dead thing


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2011)

Santino said:


> That's the second time this series that the sexy fish vampires have been mentioned for no real reason. I wonder if something from that episode will be important later on.


 
for no real reason other than to in-jokily big up a previous episode written by the same writer.

Remind me of the other mention pls


----------



## strung out (Aug 28, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Hadn't he already burned them all- 'I watched them all burn' alongside the daleks? so the time lock was to prevent pre-annahilation time travellers sneakily getting around the whole being dead thing


i don't think anything's ever been said/confirmed about the doctor killing all the timelords, although it could certainly be said that he's responsible for their demise, having sealed them away inside the lock to prevent them and the daleks from destroying the universe.


----------



## Santino (Aug 28, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> for no real reason other than to in-jokily big up a previous episode written by the same writer.
> 
> Remind me of the other mention pls


The previous episode when someone was analyzing baby Melody's DNA and he was discussing her conception.


----------



## Santino (Aug 28, 2011)

strung out said:


> i don't think anything's ever been said/confirmed about the doctor killing all the timelords, although it could certainly be said that he's responsible for their demise, having sealed them away inside the lock to prevent them and the daleks from destroying the universe.


The Doctor himself boasted of killing all Timelords to House in the TARDIS episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2011)

Him admitting to being a massive liar rely gives the writers room for all sorts of 'ahhh' wriggling.  Although tbh I have never demanded that a story about an alien who time travels in a blue box to hold to the highest standard of internal logic.

'The Terrestrial Index' which covers old who only is a good guide to how it has never really made much sense.


----------



## Corax (Aug 28, 2011)

Just watched it and I thought it was ace. 

I confess that I do tend to watch Who just for enjoyment though, rather than conducting an appraisal of the internal logic and making notes.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> Just watched it and I thought it was ace.
> 
> I confess that I do tend to watch Who just for enjoyment though, rather than conducting an appraisal of the internal logic and making notes.


Oh, me too.  I frankly don't give a shit who Rassalon is, or whether something was said by a talking Bertie Bassett in 1985 which Must Be Adhered To.


----------



## strung out (Aug 29, 2011)

Santino said:


> The Doctor himself boasted of killing all Timelords to House in the TARDIS episode.


i don't believe a word the doctor says anymore 

seriously, i'd need to watch that again to see the line as i can't remember it precisely. all the same, the whole concept of the timelords being dead seems a bit iffy now, seeing as we've already had them come back once only to be sealed back inside the time lock, presumably trying to find other ways of getting back out. inevitably things are going to get a bit complicated when you involve time travel, but surely the only place/time the timelords can possibly exist now is inside the time lock, and as they're pretty clearly alive in the time lock, then they must be de facto 'alive'.

the feeling i get is that the doctor uses the word killed as a cacophemism for his imprisonment of the time lords. either that or he did kill them but managed to travel back and stick them in the time lock before he had a chance to do it.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 29, 2011)

well I thought it was great.


----------



## Helen Back (Aug 29, 2011)

Cacophemism.

The new word of the day.


----------



## magneze (Aug 29, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> I do.  And I like Dr Who. (Well, New Who).  And I liked the Vampires of Venice.  But I thought last night's episode was a mess.


Watched it this morning and I'd agree. It was incoherent way too often.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> i don't believe a word the doctor says anymore
> 
> seriously, i'd need to watch that again to see the line as i can't remember it precisely. all the same, the whole concept of the timelords being dead seems a bit iffy now, seeing as we've already had them come back once only to be sealed back inside the time lock, presumably trying to find other ways of getting back out. inevitably things are going to get a bit complicated when you involve time travel, but surely the only place/time the timelords can possibly exist now is inside the time lock, and as they're pretty clearly alive in the time lock, then they must be de facto 'alive'.
> 
> the feeling i get is that the doctor uses the word killed as a cacophemism for his imprisonment of the time lords. either that or he did kill them but managed to travel back and stick them in the time lock before he had a chance to do it.


He said as early as Dalek that the time lords had burnt and that if was responsible. The Time Lords had foreknowledge of their destruction and on the last day of the Time War tried on escape by creating a link through one of the two Time Lords who would survive by putting the drumbeat in the young Masters head. The doctor messed that up so they were sent back into the Time war to be destroyed by an earlier incarnation of the Doctor.


----------



## strung out (Aug 29, 2011)

i still don't think they're dead.


----------



## spirals (Aug 29, 2011)

I watched it today and really enjoyed it, i thought it was well paced (better paced than some of the earlier episodes) and a lot of fun.


----------



## Santino (Aug 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> i still don't think they're dead.


I think they are dead but that at some point in the (Doctor's) future they might not be dead.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 29, 2011)

Presupposing that the dr can travel to any point in time so could and more than likely would have run into other timelords. This would have caused shitloads of foreknowledge issues. It should also mean the dr would run into far more timelords. I mean you've all been on holiday so where else and bumped into an old school friend or teacher work college etc. If not you know someone who has. So how come there arent more bloody hell fancy seeing you here moments?

So even if they are dead he could still run into them.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 29, 2011)

We know that the Master buggered off to the end of the Universe so there could be Time Lords out there in void ships, stasis locks, bubble worlds etc... and of course the whole of Gallifrey was brought back so who knows what could have jumped planet?

I'm still wondering the significance of red vs blue bow ties 

Also weren't all Timelords and all daleks from all time recalled to fight in the war?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 29, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Presupposing that the dr can travel to any point in time so could and more than likely would have run into other timelords. This would have caused shitloads of foreknowledge issues. It should also mean the dr would run into far more timelords. I mean you've all been on holiday so where else and bumped into an old school friend or teacher work college etc. If not you know someone who has. So how come there arent more bloody hell fancy seeing you here moments?
> 
> So even if they are dead he could still run into them.



No garf. Other Timelords don't fuck about in the main stream of time. The Rani, The Meddling monk, The Master, Mobious and Romana. Otherwise they run a strict non interference policy. The only time lord you are likely to encounter while doing a bit of sex tourism in New Bangcock  ad 3323 is going to be a renegade, an outlaw. The doctor stole his tardis and fled with it. They aren't supposed to be vehicles for time lords to go swanning about in


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 29, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Presupposing that the dr can travel to any point in time so could and more than likely would have run into other timelords. This would have caused shitloads of foreknowledge issues. It should also mean the dr would run into far more timelords. I mean you've all been on holiday so where else and bumped into an old school friend or teacher work college etc. If not you know someone who has. So how come there arent more bloody hell fancy seeing you here moments?
> 
> So even if they are dead he could still run into them.


No. That is the point of the time lock.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 29, 2011)

the timelords are gone untill  the show writes them back in

simple as


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 29, 2011)




----------



## Ms T (Aug 29, 2011)

I don't understand how River Song can be a Time Lady if her parents are Rory and Amy.  Can someone please explain.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 29, 2011)

Ms T said:


> I don't understand how River Song can be a Time Lady if her parents are Rory and Amy. Can someone please explain.


Being conceived in the Tardis gives her Timelord DNA, apparently.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 29, 2011)

That's what they are telling Rory anyway.


----------



## strung out (Aug 29, 2011)

i can't remember if this was explained in the series or in one of the books or what, but i seem to remember that the timelords evolved to be able to regenerate etc due to mutations from prolonged exposure to the time vortex. it therefore stands to reason that a child conceived *in* the time vortex might experience similar 'mutations'


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 29, 2011)

Blah blah blah.


----------



## Corax (Aug 29, 2011)

The question everyone seems to be avoiding is...

Where does Mr Ben fit into it all?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> i can't remember if this was explained in the series or in one of the books or what, but i seem to remember that the timelords evolved to be able to regenerate etc due to mutations from prolonged exposure to the time vortex. it therefore stands to reason that a child conceived *in* the time vortex might experience similar 'mutations'



Lungbarrow. And it isn't from vortex exposure


----------



## Greebo (Aug 29, 2011)

Corax said:


> The question everyone seems to be avoiding is...
> 
> Where does Mr Ben fit into it all?


Who knows?  Who cares?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 29, 2011)

Just watched it.

Thought it was bollocks. some nice ideas (the robot manned by minature people - like the numbskulls in _whizzer and chips_ ), but mainly it was overcomplicated, smart arse and not gripping or engaing at all. My 11 year old daughter has been a big fan since the relaunch and she is also rapidly losing interest.
The never ending river story arc is just tiresome. A return to self contained stories with decent plots would be most welcome rather then this fan boy spod fest of self referential wank.
And enough with the fucking music!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 30, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> No garf. Other Timelords don't fuck about in the main stream of time. The Rani, The Meddling monk, The Master, Mobious and Romana. Otherwise they run a strict non interference policy. The only time lord you are likely to encounter while doing a bit of sex tourism in New Bangcock ad 3323 is going to be a renegade, an outlaw. The doctor stole his tardis and fled with it. They aren't supposed to be vehicles for time lords to go swanning about in


would the doctor be one of those outlaws...


----------



## Augie March (Aug 30, 2011)

Why wasn't the Doctor allowed to regenerate when he was dying?


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 30, 2011)

Because Matt Smith has a long term contract.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 30, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> No garf. Other Timelords don't fuck about in the main stream of time. The Rani, The Meddling monk, The Master, Mobious and Romana. Otherwise they run a strict non interference policy. The only time lord you are likely to encounter while doing a bit of sex tourism in New Bangcock ad 3323 is going to be a renegade, an outlaw. The doctor stole his tardis and fled with it. They aren't supposed to be vehicles for time lords to go swanning about in



What about all those ones that picked up signals as they were passing by that bubble universe and were killed by house?

The simple fact is that anyone can write Mr Who in and out of any situation and continuity be damned. It's always been that way.


----------



## magneze (Aug 30, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Why wasn't the Doctor allowed to regenerate when he was dying?


That got me too. What was the point of having him die and then be brought back instead of regenerating? Totally confusing, and to what end? If the characters had given a reason then that might be ok, but they didn't.


----------



## Leafster (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm guessing he couldn't regenerate because the poison of the Judas Tree stopped it.


----------



## Santino (Aug 30, 2011)

Basically, they had to establish why River used to be able to regenerate but couldn't any more.


----------



## magneze (Aug 30, 2011)

Leafster said:


> I'm guessing he couldn't regenerate because the poison of the Judas Tree stopped it.


Maybe, but in that situation someone would have probably mentioned it. But they all just accepted that River who had killed him in the first place was doing the right thing. Um, that's just a bit stupid.


----------



## Santino (Aug 30, 2011)

I thought there was something about why he couldn't regenerate. Which is fair enough narratively, as the attempt to kill him was planned over many years by a secret time-travelling organisation. They wouldn't just stab him and wait for him to regenerate again.


----------



## magneze (Aug 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> Basically, they had to establish why River used to be able to regenerate but couldn't any more.


In an attempt to keep credibility on that, they destroy it somewhere else. The episode was a mess because of this - much of it made no sense. Hopefully the rest of the series will be better after sorting it all out in one episode.


----------



## Leafster (Aug 30, 2011)

I also suspect that by getting River Song to use up all her regenerations to bring him back to life the writers have 'fixed' it so River will only have one life. Therefore her ultimate sacrifice back in The Library was easier as she'd lived the only life she had left.

I also think it's a possibility that she may have transferred some of her regenerations to The Doctor so they could use that as a future reason why the Doctor hasn't run out of his.

ETA: Didn't see Santino's post as I was typing this.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 30, 2011)

magneze said:


> Maybe, but in that situation someone would have probably mentioned it. But they all just accepted that River who had killed him in the first place was doing the right thing. Um, that's just a bit stupid.


Whats the worst she could of done? Double deaded him?


----------



## Stigmata (Aug 30, 2011)

magneze said:


> Maybe, but in that situation someone would have probably mentioned it. But they all just accepted that River who had killed him in the first place was doing the right thing. Um, that's just a bit stupid.



They did mention it. I think the holographic Amelia said so.


----------



## magneze (Aug 30, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> Whats the worst she could of done? Double deaded him?


Quite possibly, see the first episode of this series. That's exactly what happened.


----------



## magneze (Aug 30, 2011)

The episode was saved by the Numbskulls though. They were cool.


----------



## Augie March (Aug 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> I thought there was something about why he couldn't regenerate. Which is fair enough narratively, as the attempt to kill him was planned over many years by a secret time-travelling organisation. They wouldn't just stab him and wait for him to regenerate again.



They could just stab him again while he is regenerating. That proper deads him then. No backsies or nothing.


----------



## Pingu (Aug 30, 2011)

did you even see the bit where riversong got shot up by the krauts?

pah...


----------



## Balbi (Aug 30, 2011)

magneze said:


> The episode was saved by the Numbskulls though. They were cool.



Especially the Star Trek style bridge.


----------



## Stigmata (Aug 30, 2011)

The Doctor's new coat is amazing btw. I am very jealous.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 30, 2011)

emanymton said:


> That's what they are telling Rory anyway.


 
one of my favorite letter bollox from viz:

'If I was the Doctor I would bend Rose over the Tardis console and use my time-twiddling powers to constantly loop the bit where I was in the vinegar strokes'


----------



## strung out (Aug 30, 2011)

it was mentioned that the poison had the ability to kill him and stop him from regenerating.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 30, 2011)

Why did the robot thingy even have the floating jellyfish security system thing? Do they have a lot of problems with tiny people breaking into their robot and stealing all the little coffee stirrers from the staffroom? And would the jellyfish not have been more effective if they had been programmed to spend less time making humorously deadpan threats and more time carrying them out?

I tire of this story arc stuff tbh. It would be a real shame to see Doctor Who of all things mimic various US sci fi shows I don't need to name and disappear up its own arse with plots so complicated you spend more time trying to figure out what's going on that you do actually being entertained. I can't imagine kids getting much out of the last few episodes tbh, even despite the flashes of tongue-in-cheek brilliance in the writing and Matt Smith's ability to make even the bleakest of scripts into something watchable and entertaining.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 30, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> some nice ideas (the robot manned by minature people - like the numbskulls in _whizzer and chips_ ), but mainly it was overcomplicated, smart arse...The never ending river story arc is just tiresome. A return to self contained stories with decent plots would be most welcome rather then this fan boy spod fest of self referential wank.
> And enough with the fucking music!



This. Series story arcs are one thing, but it's just getting silly now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2011)

I stayed up all night and wrote some unformed essay about doctor who. *dons flame proof coat*

How I fell in love with the Doctor

The Doctors greatest triumph of characterization is not that he is an english eccentric. It isn't even that he embraces non violence as a less a moral code but simply a central idea.
The Doctor represents a chance for the non violent, for the weird and the off kilter to be a hero. In contrast to Potter and Skywalker there is no Grand legacy, no messiah complex of redemption and throne claiming. The Doctor doesn’t win- ever. Oh he defeats the menace, battles the monsters and emerges triumphant against them The day is what is saved, but never the character himself. There is the innate loneliness that makes him surround himself with adoring companions, companions who he will manipulate and sacrifice at the drop of an anachronistic hat. Despite suffering the agonies of guilt over these squandered pawns he will come back, smile an enigmatic smile before sending his time and place machine somewhere else, somewhere where there is a battle he can win- and make no mistake he HAS to win. The battles of now, never the grand questions, never the final victory over his own chaotic puppy nature. The Doctor doesn’t stay to council a fractured society, he doesn’t hang around to pick up pieces, or sit on Truth and Reconciliation committees.
So why should I love him? He is the universes vilest liberal, to squeamish to pick up a rifle and yet without qualm he consigns entire species to death- a collaborator with UNIT and a merciless wielder of power.
It rests, ultimately with the why of how he exercises power. In his latest guise as Matt Smith he chastises a time travelling justice delivering death robot with ‘Id ask you who you think you are but I think I already know the answer’, and isn’t that some sheer gall from a man who consigned his whole species to death (or timelock-we can be sure that particular haziness is deliberate. Doctor Who without the Dalek threat is like a ww2 film with no Nazis in it) because it meant he could also be rid of the Dalek threat?

Nowhere is the tragedy of the eternal child more poignant than in his dealing with his nemesis The Master- also an erudite skilled manipulator with great power but one who grasps it to use it. The Doctor grasps power like someone who has a really well stocked tool cupboard and forgets half of the contents. His rival counts the contents every day and schemes on the usages constantly. With Gentleman Doctor pertwee we saw his opponent Delgado, a suave Master. And despite the autons and Delgados repeated attempts to kill Pertwee he still thought his enemy worth saving. When Simms faced Tennant, on both occasions the Doctor saw some good, tried to extend a redemptive hand. Like an ever 10 year old who wants to make friends with the bully he just defeated.

It rests with the reading I have of him as a child. It is no coincidence that with each regeneration the Doctor begins lighter and as unbaggaged as he was the last time he put on a new skin and a new scarf. The blue box that can go anywhere, and the man who can be written anew is a childs dream wedded to an adults longing for the ability to just go and fight evil, to fight uncomplicated evil and without violence knock the bad out of a situation just by the power of some technical skill and a burning sense of justice. Do what circumstance demands, even if that should be the sacrifice or endangering of friends. It doesn’t matter, next week I can be somewhere else, someone else. And this time I’ll make the world spin right without hurting people I love.


----------



## Corax (Aug 31, 2011)

I enjoyed that.  Bravo.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 31, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What about all those ones that picked up signals as they were passing by that bubble universe and were killed by house?
> 
> The simple fact is that anyone can write Mr Who in and out of any situation and continuity be damned. It's always been that way.


Trapped in a condemnation vortex outside of time itself...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 31, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Trapped in a condemnation vortex outside of time itself...


Where if they had not been dead timelords, he could have met them and gone back (just as the Doctor did himself)


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2011)

Corax said:


> I enjoyed that. Bravo.


 
Cheers. Needs work though, 'council' should be 'counsel' and there are running on commas all over the shop. Aside from technical flaws there's a deal more I could add  to support the ideas- geek detail essentially. I also wanted to include a bit about the Doctors supposed dark side- the bits where he shows the steel and ruthlessness behind the jelly baby wielding façade and how that is a brittle childs anger, a defiance. Was thinking in particular about the Northern Doctors first reaction to the Dalek in that blokes museum. It was desperately cruel and vicious-gloaty in a way. I'll probably have another crack at it later


----------



## Corax (Aug 31, 2011)

to/too and a few missing possessive apostrophes as well, but I thought mentioning them would be churlish.  

Main point is that it was enjoyable to read.  That's really the only thing that matters.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 1, 2011)

This has nothing to do with the new series at all but it is bloody funny...


----------



## binka (Sep 3, 2011)

i thought tonight's was quite good. hopefully it scared the shit out of my 8 year old nephew


----------



## strung out (Sep 3, 2011)

really enjoyed that


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 3, 2011)

strung out said:


> really enjoyed that


Me too - good and scary and I thought George was very sweet


----------



## killer b (Sep 3, 2011)

it was ok, i guess. nothing special though. shame, as there was plenty of potential...


----------



## strung out (Sep 3, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Me too - good and scary and I thought George was very sweet


i thought alex was great


----------



## colacubes (Sep 3, 2011)

I thought it was a load of gash tbh.  I used to love Doctor Who but it's properly gone off the boil since Russell T Davies left


----------



## strung out (Sep 3, 2011)

i think it's got a million times better since steven moffat took over! i cringe at some of the 2005-2007 episodes now.


----------



## colacubes (Sep 3, 2011)

Different strokes etc.  I've really tried to like it but I just cant get into it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 3, 2011)

That was _much_ better.  Not a top notch episode, but back on track.  Huge improvement.


----------



## strung out (Sep 3, 2011)

nipsla said:


> Different strokes etc


oh totally, hope you don't think i'm trying to say your opinion's wrong! 

i just think that considering the budget cuts they had to make, they do a really good job nowadays of making things look good, more polished and forcing some of the stories to stand on their own rather than dazzling us with effects and smooshy acting.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 3, 2011)

Creepy, classic Who - let down only by overly sentimental ending. Like the look of next week's i-bots!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 3, 2011)

Shite nothing padding episode.

Next week looks like fun though.


----------



## colacubes (Sep 3, 2011)

strung out said:


> oh totally, hope you don't think i'm trying to say your opinion's wrong!



But that's the Urban way  

I agree re what they've had to do with cuts and I guess they're doing a good job considering, but I think my main problem is that Matt Smith is fucking annoying


----------



## strung out (Sep 3, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Shite nothing padding episode.


reliable as ever AS


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 3, 2011)

I said next week looked like fun.


----------



## strung out (Sep 3, 2011)




----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 3, 2011)

Anyone else feel that it should have been earlier in the run - before babygate? I mean last week it was all "where's my baby" and this week _with a child in danger_ not a whisper about poor baby Melody...


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2011)

Gatiss done what he does. A solid episode, quite creepy in places imho. I particularly enjoyed him killing off slumlord bloke by having him melt into the carpet.

7/10

Gatis does want to sort out that atrocity on his top lip though


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> That was _much_ better. Not a top notch episode, but back on track. Huge improvement.


 
a ha. I know what you like with New Who now. You like a good story, told in an episode and with style. No wonder you never got on with old Who much, it didn't do episodic very often.

Fair enuf etc


----------



## Santino (Sep 3, 2011)

Good episode.  I like a bit of sentiment now and then.

Better than the Doctor battling heavy traffic on future Earth, innit.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 3, 2011)

strung out said:


> i thought alex was great



Daniel Mays was probably glad to get to do some decent sci-fi after that dog's fucking dinner "Outcasts". Christ that was interminable shite.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 3, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> a ha. I know what you like with New Who now. You like a good story, told in an episode and with style. No wonder you never got on with old Who much, it didn't do episodic very often.
> 
> Fair enuf etc


Yes, I like good stories.  I don't know why you think I wasn't into old Who, though; I loved it at the time.  And that time was Pertwee/Tom Baker.  (With some dim memories of Troughton).  I don't want to revisit it, though.  I don't want the memory sullied.  I never saw the Davidson or later Whos, but clips I've seen make me glad.  (And make me not want to watch the Pertwee/Baker era again).


----------



## gosub (Sep 3, 2011)

Seemed very scribble monster at the olympics


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 3, 2011)

gosub said:


> Seemed very scribble monster at the olympics


I hope they do something with that next year!  Smith could meet Tennant, and say "Oh, it's OK, you've got this one covered".  Or something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, I like good stories. I don't know why you think I wasn't into old Who, though; I loved it at the time. And that time was Pertwee/Tom Baker. (With some dim memories of Troughton). I don't want to revisit it, though. I don't want the memory sullied. I never saw the Davidson or later Whos, but clips I've seen make me glad. (And make me not want to watch the Pertwee/Baker era again).


 
dim memories of troughton is all anyone has now


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 4, 2011)

Troughton was the best though


----------



## strung out (Sep 4, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> Troughton was the best though


i agree. he's still my number one, though matt smith is close behind in second place for me.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 4, 2011)

gosub said:


> Seemed very scribble monster at the olympics


I thought that. Very similar. A lot better though.


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Shite nothing padding episode.
> 
> Next week looks like fun though.



I may be wrong (and God knows, you'll be the first to correct me ) but normally even the stand alone episodes normally have something relevant to the overall arc. In this story we met a new alien type, were reminded about perception filters and their power etc.

Something in this episode will appear again. Even if it turns out the Dr was harnessing this new lot of space critters to manifest a perception filter on everyone to make them believe the Dr was dead. Or something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2011)

The singing continued right at the end. We also saw the death record downloaded from the justice machine.


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2011)

I enjoyed it, but... it did seem very _familiar_. Wasn't there another NuHu episode with monsters in a closet or something?

ETA:  ah, I just googled the 'scribble monster' reference because I had no idea what it meant.  Maybe it was that one.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 4, 2011)

These new episodes all seem a lot shorter than they used to.  Even the last series with Matt Smith, you had a proper opening, a romp around, and a proper end.  Now it seems like it's only just started when it finishes with a whimper instead of a bang, no real story development, as soon as you've found out the "hook", ie they're in a dolls house, that's it.  There wasn't even really anything with the dolls, just a bit of chasing.  Rubbish.


----------



## belboid (Sep 4, 2011)

Well, they could turn you into one of them, condemning you to an eternity of not really living. I think that counts as mild peril, at least.

That was a good creepy tale, and I didn't immediately want to punch Daniel Mays, which is a first.


----------



## spirals (Sep 4, 2011)

Watched it today with the other half's 6yr old, we all really enjoyed it, I think they got the scareyness factor just right, little one was scared but not traumatised and asked to watch it again straight away on iplayer.


----------



## Augie March (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm just glad that at the end of every stand-alone episode, they show the little screen readout that reminds us what the story arc is. I'd forget otherwise.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 4, 2011)

Well at least the story arc isn't trial of a timelord.
or the almost non existent arc of the key to time.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> Anyone else feel that it should have been earlier in the run - before babygate? I mean last week it was all "where's my baby" and this week _with a child in danger_ not a whisper about poor baby Melody...


whuh?

we know what happened to melody. she became mels and tried to kill hitler last week. there *is* no more baby-in-peril storylline.


----------



## strung out (Sep 4, 2011)

baby melody has still been kidnapped and somehow ends up in a spacesuit with the silence. i don't think that amy and rory particularly want to write off their kid's entire childhood if they can help it


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2011)

Trial of a Timelord was alright. It gave us that scrap with the Valeyard which was funny.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 4, 2011)

What's going on with the miniaturisation thing, then? And it was a very fancy doll's house for a child whose putative dad couldn't find £350 for the rent. Very Gatiss, impressively cheap, all good.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 4, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What's going on with the miniaturisation thing, then? And it was a very fancy doll's house for a child whose putative dad couldn't find £350 for the rent. Very Gatiss, impressively cheap, all good.


 
also £350 rent seems very cheap for a months rent but a lot for a weeks rent.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2011)

Evil slumlord had one of those ashtrays onna stand that have been illegal since at least 1970. I was jealous of his ashtray.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Evil slumlord had one of those ashtrays onna stand that have been illegal since at least 1970. I was jealous of his ashtray.


I've got one.  I don't smoke, but I use it for my tea cup.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 4, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> I've got one. I don't smoke, but I use it for my tea cup.


you use your slumlord for your teacup


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2011)

I am jealous


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> I've got one. I don't smoke, but I use it for my tea cup.



 They were made illegal for a reason you know!

Do you never worry about falling asleep on the sofa and waking up to a house with tea stains on the carpet?!?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2011)

I use my ashtray stand.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2011)

Corax said:


> They were made illegal for a reason you know!
> 
> Do you never worry about falling asleep on the sofa and waking up to a house with tea stains on the carpet?!?


Constantly.


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Constantly.


Well, on your own head be it.


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Sep 4, 2011)

Also, what was a boy doing with a dolls' house? Are to assume it was his mum's, from her childhood?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2011)

Dr Dolittle said:


> Also, what was a boy doing with a dolls' house? Are to assume it was his mum's, from her childhood?


Don't be such a gender fascist.


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2011)

Dr Dolittle said:


> Also, what was a boy doing with a dolls' house? Are to assume it was his mum's, from her childhood?


Action Man has to live _somewhere_ you know.


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Sep 4, 2011)

The dolls were Action Man's girlfriends, then? Or his daughters?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2011)

His beards


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2011)

Harem.

There's no way that one woman on her own would ever be able to fully satisfy _Action Man_.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 4, 2011)

Definitely the best Gatiss episode so far. Much better than that Churchill story.


----------



## MikeMcc (Sep 5, 2011)

Dr Dolittle said:


> Also, what was a boy doing with a dolls' house? Are to assume it was his mum's, from her childhood?


Yes, given that the lad latched onto the couple because of the mother's wish to have a child despite repeated IVF failures.  It took the mothers initial world and built itself into that.


----------



## MikeMcc (Sep 5, 2011)

It was good to see a 'classic' Doctor Who' episode.  I was getting very tired of this epic 'the Doctor is going to die' storyline when you know full well that he won't.  I'm still not convinced about the Smith as the new Doctor, I still don't rate him compared to the last two.  Too twee, and not agressive enough.  I seem to prefer the Doctor to be more forthright and sure of his course of action (even at a personal cost to him).  The whole 'should we open the cupboard or not' bit was too weak willed and drawn out.


----------



## gsv (Sep 5, 2011)

I thought it was meh. Could have been OK until the hackneyed only-you-cn-overcome-it/love-conquers-all ending. Wasn't even 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 - all it managed was 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




GS(v)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 5, 2011)

I thought it was mildly interesting, without ever getting going. As has been said, felt like we'd seen a lot of it before (unidentifiable monster stalks kids, preying on fear, expressionless automatons...) and there just didn't feel like there was enough meat to any of it. It seemed to want to build tension and mystery and then just kinda wet "bleh" - might actually have worked better as a two-parter, building the atmosphere then being able to explore stuff and have a better pay off at the end. Would probably require something more interesting than zombie-dolls and a lonely alien though.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 5, 2011)

I thought we'd seen it all before too.  I don't think Mark Gatiss is very good at writing for Doctor Who.


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Sep 5, 2011)

Yes, very much a mixed tale: Classic monsters, and some good lines -
"How can it (the dolls' house) be bigger on the inside than out?"
"It's more common than you think."
But overall a weak storyline.

Surely, after seven years, they're not starting to run out of ideas, when it ran for twenty-six years last time?


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

you did see some of those episodes they made in the first twenty-six years didn't you?


----------



## Santino (Sep 5, 2011)

The woman from inside the robot last week used to be in The Catherine Tate Show. And the landlord from this week was in Cracker with Christopher Eccleston. And the mum was in The Lakes with John Simm.

This is all from my head.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 5, 2011)

needs more  classic sci-fi  stuff

i like the   horror  sci-fi stuff  but  i  kinda miss the  guys in tinfoil suits type stuff


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Sep 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> you did see some of those episodes they made in the first twenty-six years didn't you?


Yes, but I wasn't into Doctor Who then, so I can't judge whether they were any good or not. I gather you're saying they kept repeating the same ideas?


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

i loved them and still do, but some of the stories were complete tosh. either rehashed rubbish or so ludicrous that i still cringe at them even now.


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

that's not a criticism of them btw. every story has got its own unique charm, even now. especially now actually.


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

just thinking out loud here, but i think what some people don't realise (either because they didn't particularly watch it back then, or because they are such massive fans of old Who that it can do no wrong) is that the show didn't run for 26 years because they wrote cracking good stories every week with brilliant effects and stunning acting to boot. it lasted for 26 years because it was good entertainment for the whole family with a decent mix of scary, fun, moral, sci-fi, historical episodes over the course of a whole season. there were barely any seasons when every story was a cracker, and generally speaking you'd have a mixture of hits and misses, but there was always enough to keep people tuning in every week. nowadays, i actually think we're spoiled with the quality of episodes and for the most part the episodes are well written, well acted, with good effects and almost every story will be someone's favourite.

i didn't really rate the pirate episode earlier this series, while some people loved it. i liked the almost people, but my brother thinks it was quite weak. on the whole though, there will always be something for someone in every episode and you'll be hard pressed to find an episode each series which is universally disliked, unlike stories like The Twin Dilemma or The Makra Terror back in the day, that stand out as real low points imo.

i probably come across as looking at Doctor Who through rose tinted specs sometimes, and i guess that's natural because of the way i was virtually weaned on the show, watching even more Doctor Who in the fallow years than i do now! but i honestly do think that Doctor Who is a real gem of the BBC. it's not going to provide award winning drama every single week, but then again, i don't think it's fair to expect that. it's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be scary, it's supposed to be awe inspiring and above all it's supposed to keep people tuning in each week. to be honest, with audience figures at their highest since the late 70s/early 80s, especially considering the much bigger choice of channels nowadays, i don't think you can say they're doing too badly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2011)

I'd agree with that, but that doesn't mean there wasn't some great stuff from old who. As you say there were high and low points and rarely can many of us agree on what they were!

I grew up with who from picking up a Doctor Who magazine many years before new who was about and then asking for a subscription to it, followed by watching all the old stuff I could lay my hands on. There's no question that the money and resources available to new Who make the visual spectacle far greater than what was back then- and todays writers are actual who geeks who also remember the past. I've great affection for the old who, pertwee, davidson, even the crap baker had some good episodes.

On the recycling of ideas thing people seem to forget that with every new regeneration there is a new dalek threat, a new sontaran threat and so on. The old foes never completely die. Except the Rani who New Who haven't touched with a shitty stick but I wish they would.

Also, is it not time for a new who Three Doctors special? It surely is.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 5, 2011)

i think what it is for me  is the new series  feels a bit more like  fast food.   as good as it might  be   after a while it feels a bit samey

also  the  pacing is always  a bit breakneck  given the   short  episode times


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Also, is it not time for a new who Three Doctors special? It surely is.


50th anniversary in 2013


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> also the pacing is always a bit breakneck given the short episode times


just out of interest, do you think that's something unique to Doctor Who, or did you have similar criticisms of something like Star Trek, where in TNG, you'd actually have 24 self contained 45min episodes? if not, what do you think makes the two different?


----------



## Santino (Sep 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> just out of interest, do you think that's something unique to Doctor Who, or did you have similar criticisms of something like Star Trek, where in TNG, you'd actually have 24 self contained 45min episodes? if not, what do you think makes the two different?


Star Trek is less hurried because they only need about 20 seconds to establish what's going on this week. ('Captain's Log. We are orbiting some planet or other.')

With Who it always takes a while to establish when and where we are, and for the incidental characters to meet the Doctor.


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

good point


----------



## Santino (Sep 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> good point


Don't be shy of the Like button.


----------



## strung out (Sep 5, 2011)

i'm not shy, i'm playing hard to get


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 5, 2011)

i think it's  to  do  with the transition old doctor who   felt different  because of the  type of  show it was.  rather than just  the lenghts of the episodes   the type of acting in it  is a little diffrent.

TNG  feels  slow   new  who feels  fast


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2011)

TNG, like Stargate, did have the same 'new planet, new adventure' thing going on as Who  does but both the federation starship enterprise and the SG1 team were always driven by a confirmed mandate and facing immediately defined problems. The doctors motivations are not so simple, and he is a lone player rather than the spearhead of some defined polity


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 5, 2011)

i think  one  thing  is  that there has  been a serious   reduction in side characters.  maybe not the number of them  but  the amount of the  episode dedicated to them.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 5, 2011)

Well next week looks to be very Amy-centric


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 5, 2011)

she is almost more a main character than the doctor


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 8, 2011)

Was quite promosing and scary until  the lazy bollocks sentimental ending - the alien just needed a cuddle from his 'dad'! What sort of plot resolution is that? A Piss poor one.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 9, 2011)

now i wish  the standard length  of episodes was  two pparts   it  would  make for more involved stories.

take the last episode     you could  get some actual backsotory on the type of alie that kid is  and  have  a more indepth  take on the family and the kid  comming to terms with being both human and alien.

plus it would be  a great opertunity  to  reflect on the human/alien mix that is  both the doctor  and  more importantly   how  rory and amy see riversong  given she  is  both their daughter and   something very alien


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Sep 10, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Was quite promosing and scary until the lazy bollocks sentimental ending - the alien just needed a cuddle from his 'dad'! What sort of plot resolution is that? A Piss poor one.



Yeah! To think all they had to do was snap the little shits neck.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 10, 2011)

*sniffle*


----------



## gnoriac (Sep 10, 2011)

I thought tonight's, The Girl Who waited, was the best episode in years. Intriguing, complex, far better than the usual running around and ham acting that Dr Who's become as 'family entertainment'. Written by Tom Mcrae - can't recall his name, anyone got any info on him?


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 10, 2011)

That was very affecting.   Turned quite dark.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 10, 2011)

He wrote the awful Cybermen episodes during Tennants tenure.

After Love and Monsters, the Doctor Light episodes have really come on.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2011)

Fuck me, I'm narcoleptic. Saw ten mins, conked out and then woke up for the last five. This is bullshit man. Hurry up iplayer. I can't even watch confidential till i've seen the episode cos it will ruin it. Fuck you.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 10, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Fuck me, I'm narcoleptic. Saw ten mins, conked out and then woke up for the last five. This is bullshit man. Hurry up iplayer. I can't even watch confidential till i've seen the episode cos it will ruin it. Fuck you.





It was good, very good.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 10, 2011)

Spoilers sweetie, i'd avoid this thread.

Warrior amy qualifies as a BAMF.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 10, 2011)

Also, everyone's now had a duplicate. Auton Rory, Flesh Doctor - Amy's had Flesh Amy and Warrior Amy.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 10, 2011)

Really enjoyed that,very affecing. Some good acting too


----------



## Balbi (Sep 10, 2011)

Gah!


----------



## Balbi (Sep 10, 2011)

Damn time slippage.


----------



## gnoriac (Sep 10, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Also, everyone's now had a duplicate. Auton Rory, Flesh Doctor - Amy's had Flesh Amy and Warrior Amy.


Don't need so many actors, saves a few bob.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Sep 10, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Damn time slippage.



V good.

Excellent episode in general.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2011)

I fell asleep when amy was still young and then I woke up to amy who had a sword and a pie habit.

Iplayer, Iplayer Iplayer


----------



## Balbi (Sep 10, 2011)

Future Amy was


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 10, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Future Amy was



To sass, she was a young slip of a girl.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2011)

I liked that episode.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

Auton Rory is this Rory. 

Here's a niggle 36 years would make Amy between 55 and 65 in which case her make up was awful. That ruined the rest for me. 

Also what about the time crack lose end or the silence for that matter.


----------



## innit (Sep 10, 2011)

Balbi said:


> He wrote the awful Cybermen episodes during Tennants tenure.
> 
> After Love and Monsters, the Doctor Light episodes have really come on.


Does that count as 'Doctor light'? He was in it loads.

It was fantastic either way.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 10, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Auton Rory is this Rory.
> 
> Here's a niggle 36 years would make Amy between 55 and 65 in which case her make up was awful. That ruined the rest for me.
> 
> Also what about the time crack lose end or the silence for that matter.


yes - she looked far too young. also red hair doesn't age like that. and i don't believe she'd be arsed to pluck her eyebrows.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i don't believe she'd be arsed to pluck her eyebrows.



There wasn't much else to do.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 10, 2011)

Good episode, - "You're turning me into you"

Anyway she can't complain: Rory waited 2,000 years for her.
Also he spent much of that time playing with his sword (fnar) so she could have at least let him have a go on her katana (snigger)
Also why wasn't giving birth the most memorable thought to hang onto?


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 10, 2011)

otherwise, i liked it too.  it's all about rory for me this series, and he had some good development points.

btw - i was sent a bunch of Che Walker (british playwrite) scripts at work the other day, and who'd've thunk it - Arthur Darvill used to be a pretty serious theatrical composer (certainly it was his big theatrical career before Who). proper musician too. I'm surprised they haven't put the sudden need to play piano or whatever in an episode yet, like they did with Matt Smith's footy.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 10, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> There wasn't much else to do.


nahh - warrior amy wouldn't do it.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 10, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> Also why wasn't giving birth the most memorable thought to hang onto?



It was t'otherest Amy who did that, wasn't it? That was the whole point, IIRC.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> yes - she looked far too young. also red hair doesn't age like that. and i don't believe she'd be arsed to pluck her eyebrows.


Or get fatter with no food. Also those clothes would have been stinking festering rags. As we've already seen Rory age and die in previous episodes where his clothes did just that, 'die Amy' on the walls. So why didn't her's?

The more I think about it the more this annoys me actually. 

Stress makes people age badly isolation makes people lose vocabulary regardless of lights in the ceiling to talk to. Also if you can figure out how to hack the mainframe, build a sonic and pet a robot then why couldn't you hack the protocols which turned off the handbots as one of your first hacks. 

I'm sure they've had duplicate assistants in the tardis before now too.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It was t'otherest Amy who did that, wasn't it? That was the whole point, IIRC.


No battle of demons run. This Amy same time line.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 10, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Or get fatter with no food. Also those clothes would have been stinking festering rags. As we've already seen Rory age and die in previous episodes where his clothes did just that, 'die Amy' on the walls. So why didn't her's?
> 
> The more I think about it the more this annoys me actually.
> 
> ...


i don't think she was supposed to be fatter. older women get jowly. her body was the same.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i don't think she was supposed to be fatter. older women get jowly. her body was the same.


Look at the slowmo bit at the end the high kick had a lot of arse padding and kg/Amys bum ain't that big. They clearly padded out her thighs and bum to make her look more portly. 

Look at Amys frame she wouldn't get jowely she'd get rake thin. Again no food no skin streching added stress would make her a frail wisp not a jowely well fed oap.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2011)

good old iplayer. A good episode by my reckoning, Old Amy was played well and the absence of the doctor was quite novel even if I am getting a little sick of the 'oh this peril to his person can stop even regenerations'. He's supposed be from a race of near immortals.

There was a nice bit of of dark unsaid alien true doctor callousness wrt consigning the Old Amy to neer having been as well. These flashes of ruthelesness have always been part of the Doctors MO. I give it a 9/10


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 10, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Look at the slowmo bit at the end the high kick had a lot of arse padding and kg/Amys bum ain't that big. They clearly padded out her thighs and bum to make her look more portly.
> 
> Look at Amys frame she wouldn't get jowely she'd get rake thin. Again no food no skin streching added stress would make her a frail wisp not a jowely well fed oap.


that was the stunt double so a different bum - but if she'd got fat her trousers wouldn't fit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'm sure they've had duplicate assistants in the tardis before now too.



refresh my memory on that one, cos I cannot recall when they have. Also the docs ageing type 50 is probably well fucked by now, like a ragged to fuck car given what he has put it through and given its obsolescence even before he nicked it.

The relationship and appearence is a symbiotic thing anyways, so the machine is as like as damaged as the occupant. Even the master had a better tardis than the doctor, and that was in the 70s

e2a

the docs is a Twoced type 40


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

ace i think mckoys era... in one door out the other rushing into the tardis...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> that was the stunt double so a different bum - but if she'd got fat her trousers wouldn't fit.


but in confidential you see it isn't the stunt double but KG... so no.  not a stunt bum  it's clearly padded


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> ace i think mckoys era... in one door out the other rushing into the tardis...


 
ringing bells, vaguely- doesn't count if it was in Battlefield or Greatest Show in the Galaxy tho.

That is it with doctor who tho 'it doesn't count cos I have a forcefield' is well prevelant


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> ringing bells, vaguely- doesn't count if it was in Battlefield or Greatest Show in the Galaxy tho.
> 
> That is it with doctor who tho 'it doesn't count cos I have a forcefield' is well prevelant


why cos of etch a sket end of the world senarios... the physics would be the same even if the time lines were deleted if you get what I mean...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 10, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> refresh my memory on that one, cos I cannot recall when they have. Also the docs ageing type 50 is probably well fucked by now, like a ragged to fuck car given what he has put it through and given its obsolescence even before he nicked it.
> 
> The relationship and appearence is a symbiotic thing anyways, so the machine is as like as damaged as the occupant. Even the master had a better tardis than the doctor, and that was in the 70s
> 
> ...


yeah but it isn't they've made lots of the I've rebuilt the tardis many times thing so it might as well be a retro looking modern tardis...


----------



## Santino (Sep 10, 2011)

You could have 2 versions of someone in the TARDIS if the very existence of one didn't imply the inexistence of the other. The two Amys weren't just from different times, they were paradoxical.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yeah but it isn't they've made lots of the I've rebuilt the tardis many times thing so it might as well be a retro looking modern tardis...



a ha! my point about the tardis interior. It reflects the tastes and mindset of the occupant. You don't really think he's running a VHS tape reel that burns out on his console as a vital part of it do you? Levers? chokes? The whole kit is simply a manifestation of how the time lords mind works. Look at davidsons clean white roundels. Look at them. It is a symbiotic relation.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2011)

Santino said:


> You could have 2 versions of someone in the TARDIS if the very existence of one didn't imply the inexistence of the other. The two Amys weren't just from different times, they were paradoxical.


 
Grandfather paradox


----------



## Santino (Sep 11, 2011)

I thought a lot of the planet was reminiscent of the game Portal.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 11, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> a ha! my point about the tardis interior. It reflects the tastes and mindset of the occupant. You don't really think he's running a VHS tape reel that burns out on his console as a vital part of it do you? Levers? chokes? The whole kit is simply a manifestation of how the time lords mind works. Look at davidsons clean white roundels. Look at them. It is a symbiotic relation.


The tardis episode would imply it's sentient so not just a reflection but a manifestation of the tardis personality rather than the doctors or timelords.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> You could have 2 versions of someone in the TARDIS if the very existence of one didn't imply the inexistence of the other. The two Amys weren't just from different times, they were paradoxical.


It wasn't a paradox. 

Both had continued in their respective time lines but from different points otherwise them turning up some where every week would also be a paradox, all be it not a bootstrap paradox as this would be. 

Ie technically at least 2 Amys could have lived inside the tardis at the same time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 11, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> The tardis episode would imply it's sentient so not just a reflection but a manifestation of the tardis personality rather than the doctors or timelords.


 
Just so- symbiosis. One of the ways they explain away Hartnells 'grandfather' relationship to susan is the stress of him nicking an old model and being imperfectly synched with the tardis to start with. But it is the Time Lord that prints the tardis, at least on surface detail. o needs a mental tardis episode like the one where the master parked his tardis inside the doctors. That would be well good

New Wh


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2011)

I thought that episode was quite good.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 11, 2011)

Great episode. I think this is the best-looking series of Who to date, the visual aspect of this one was fantastic.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 11, 2011)

I don't watch Dr Who but I saw that and thought it was totally excellent. If you're a kid watching that ...... wow, 45 minutes (or whatever) of carefully crafted discussion on discrimination, social assumptions and relationships.... what else? I had no idea this was where DW was at.


----------



## Corax (Sep 11, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> Great episode. I think this is the best-looking series of Who to date, the visual aspect of this one was fantastic.


I thought quite the opposite tbh.  I enjoyed the story, but I thought the costumes and production was cheap and naff.  The slow motion samurai action sequences actually made me lol.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 11, 2011)

slo-mo and soft focus... Weren't they supposed to lol? I mean.... she was slicing the 'heads' off robots, etc. Why inc. the samurai thing at all unless you play with the genre...


----------



## Corax (Sep 11, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> slo-mo and soft focus... Weren't they supposed to lol? I mean.... she was slicing the 'heads' off robots, etc. Why inc. the samurai thing at all unless you play with the genre...


But with the costume that looked like it had been made out of cereal boxes? On the white background with slo-mo sparks and grimaces? It was all too incongruous, and didn't look like playing with the genre to me, just someone in fancy dress messing about. Didn't work for me, but I enjoyed the story anyway.

I particularly liked the dilemma ending and Rory's line to the Doctor.  More could have been made of that aspect IMO.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 11, 2011)

Corax said:


> I particularly liked the dilemma ending and Rory's line to the Doctor. More could have been made of that aspect IMO.



I'm sure it will be he's not working with the DW team any more is he he's gone to plays so I'm assuming that he either is killed off or leaves...


----------



## Santino (Sep 11, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'm sure it will be he's not working with the DW team any more is he he's gone to plays so I'm assuming that he either is killed off or leaves...


Cheers for that, Garf.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Cheers for that, Garf.


what he's been saying it in interviews for months... not my fault if your not well read...


----------



## Santino (Sep 11, 2011)

Weak.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 11, 2011)

I actually forgot this was back on even after waiting all bloody summer and seeing it last week - doesn't bode well....

<edit> OMGZ, I actually missed _two_ without realising!!1!! 

And I fucking love(d?) Dr Who as well!


----------



## Corax (Sep 11, 2011)

I've got an episode of Miracle Day recorded to watch later.  I'm loving that.


----------



## Santino (Sep 11, 2011)

Corax said:


> I've got an episode of Miracle Day recorded to watch later.  I'm loving that.


Wrong 'un.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 11, 2011)

Corax said:


> I've got an episode of Miracle Day recorded to watch later. I'm loving that.


meh. not as good as last season.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 11, 2011)

Much as I dislike agreeing with Alex B, that was unhelpful, Garf.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 11, 2011)

Pathetic rather than unhelpful.


----------



## Augie March (Sep 11, 2011)

It was a great episode, if not a tad overwrought at times. Also, I felt they kind of let the Doctor and Rory off the hook by having old Amy sacrificing herself at the end. They could've taken the characters and the story, down a very interesting and darker road if she had continued to fight for her survival right until the end.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 11, 2011)

i thought it was a bit meh , then again i did keep falling asleep


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 11, 2011)

Augie March said:


> It was a great episode, if not a tad overwrought at times. Also, I felt they kind of let the Doctor and Rory off the hook by having old Amy sacrificing herself at the end. They could've taken the characters and the story, down a very interesting and darker road if she had continued to fight for her survival right until the end.



that


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 11, 2011)

I thought there was probably enought to be going on with for the average tea-time teenage and younger viewer.

tbf, I wondered about the death at the end - a proper character death at teatime on Sat in original BBC drama, and how the writer got that past the BBC hierarchy. I suppose she never existed so it wasn't really a death - you can imagine the conversation around the table at the first script meeting.


----------



## strung out (Sep 11, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> her make up was awful. That ruined the rest for me.


yes, that was the deal-breaker for me too


----------



## strung out (Sep 11, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'm sure it will be he's not working with the DW team any more is he he's gone to plays so I'm assuming that he either is killed off or leaves...


not surprisingly, you're talking shit again. he's already confirmed that he'll be 'involved' for series 7.

anyway, even if he were to leave, they're time travellers. leaving him on earth/stranded somewhere doesn't raise quite the same problems as it might in a standard show.


----------



## strung out (Sep 11, 2011)

i just watched it, and just over halfway through i thought it was going down the sentimental route again and that it would all be solved with love, happiness and joy the world over, so it was a nice surprise to see the doctor slamming the door on old amy at the end. another reminder that the doctor can be as cold as you like when he has to be.

some quite complex themes/issues there and a nice dose of arsekicking too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 11, 2011)

As Augie says, I do think it let the Doctor and Rory off the hook massively to have Warrior Amy saying "oh well yeah actually I suppose I can't go against the plot device - fair enough, I'll die then after all these years of hating the Doctor and fighting for my survival".

She should have been clawing at the door as the handbots conducted a massive raid to finally finish her off, and sunk to the ground as the TARDIS warped out, saying "Rory, how could you?"


----------



## strung out (Sep 11, 2011)

yeah, i agree. that could have been pretty cool. i guess they didn't want to make it _too_ dark, but then again, they undid the previous work by letting them off


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 11, 2011)

The thing is, the whole bit with her saying "no, this 'it will never have happened' is bullshit - I've happened, I'll die" is really a huge criticism of the nonsense Who "paradox resolution" stuff, where they destroy the entire universe and only the people in the TARDIS remember.

That was never a proper resolution - that was always basically mass murder. Instead of fixing things in the here and now, the daring time travellers destroy whole universes of real lives, and recreate everything with clones from a nice place in the past. It _should_ be dark.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 11, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> I thought there was probably enought to be going on with for the average tea-time teenage and younger viewer.


Especially the teenage ones... 
 


FridgeMagnet said:


> As Augie says, I do think it let the Doctor and Rory off the hook massively to have Warrior Amy saying "oh well yeah actually I suppose I can't go against the plot device - fair enough, I'll die then after all these years of hating the Doctor and fighting for my survival".
> 
> She should have been clawing at the door as the handbots conducted a massive raid to finally finish her off, and sunk to the ground as the TARDIS warped out, saying "Rory, how could you?"


I'd have at least liked to see her going out in a blaze of katana-and-anger fuelled glory.


----------



## gnoriac (Sep 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> She should have been clawing at the door as the handbots conducted a massive raid to finally finish her off, and sunk to the ground as the TARDIS warped out, saying "Rory, how could you?"



"Rory, don't you love me now I've got old?" would've been much more melodramatic.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 11, 2011)

strung out said:


> not surprisingly, you're talking shit again. he's already confirmed that he'll be 'involved' for series 7.
> 
> anyway, even if he were to leave, they're time travellers. leaving him on earth/stranded somewhere doesn't raise quite the same problems as it might in a standard show.


erm I'm not he gave an interview about his latest play in the summer for the standard where he said he was doing plays when the interviewer then said so does that mean your out of doctor who then he said oh I've said too much... unless it's torchwood misdirection of a type where he's actually performing in the westend Doctor Faustus then he's not...




			
				Arthur Darvill said:
			
		

> Getting a part like Rory was great,* but now, coming out of it, I need to go and do something completely different.*



http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/article-23954395-is-this-the-end-for-rory.do

so it's you talking shit...


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 11, 2011)

He doesn't want to end up typecast in sci-fi, like the dad in this week's episode.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The thing is, the whole bit with her saying "no, this 'it will never have happened' is bullshit - I've happened, I'll die" is really a huge criticism of the nonsense Who "paradox resolution" stuff, where they destroy the entire universe and only the people in the TARDIS remember.
> 
> That was never a proper resolution - that was always basically mass murder. Instead of fixing things in the here and now, the daring time travellers destroy whole universes of real lives, and recreate everything with clones from a nice place in the past. It _should_ be dark.


I don't think who has ever shyed away from the fact that in essence despite his non gun policy he does kill a lot of people...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 11, 2011)

It shies away from the fact that every time he "changes time" he basically exterminates trillions of people. He just treats that casually.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It shies away from the fact that every time he "changes time" he basically exterminates trillions of people. He just treats that casually.


didn't the tennant dr go into all of that... as well as the explaiantion for guns etc...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Much as I dislike agreeing with Alex B, that was unhelpful, Garf.





London_Calling said:


> Pathetic rather than unhelpful.


wtf are either of you going on about??

really grow up it's a tv show not a state secret if you don't want to discuss the thing or comments made by the cast earlier on in the year don't take part in the thread...

ffs some people are pathetically childish...


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> erm I'm not he gave an interview about his latest play in the summer for the standard where he said he was doing plays when the interviewer then said so does that mean your out of doctor who then he said oh I've said too much... unless it's torchwood misdirection of a type where he's actually performing in the westend Doctor Faustus then he's not...
> 
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/article-23954395-is-this-the-end-for-rory.do
> 
> so it's you talking shit...


thanks for linking me to an out of date article from May.

meanwhile, this from August... 



Spoiler






> When we asked him bluntly, "Will you be back in series seven?" Darvill replied, "I will be coming back at some point... I'll be involved in some way"


http://www.sfx.co.uk/2011/08/15/doctor-who-series-7-rory-will-be-back/

so rather than "not working with the DW team any more" as you claimed, he'll be back next series.


 not my fault if you're not well read though 

edit: spoilered it in case people don't want to know details. suffice to say i proved garf wrong though.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> didn't the tennant dr go into all of that... as well as the explaiantion for guns etc...


While I could be mistaken, I don't think he really went into that - because it would be looking at an intrinsic paradoxical problem for Who. Whenever they say "oh we've changed time so X never happened", it's a lie - it clearly _did_ happen, otherwise nobody would ever have noticed, and nobody would have remembered, and that would be a crap TV show. They destroyed that universe.

You can't have something that didn't happen which people remember - unless the whole of Who is in fact just a hallucination by the Doctor and companions, and none of it ever happens.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> thanks for linking me to an out of date article from May.
> 
> meanwhile, this from August...
> 
> ...


well done you win a banana. who is this fucking brat?


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

someone who knows a lot more about what he's talking about than you.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

after readin the link it actually says he's coming back at some point... so not actually in series 7 but making an appearance... not only do you make up some bullshit saying it's lies and then don't retract when proved wrong but then link to a article which confirms he's not actually in the series as a main character... but you've proved me wrong... oh yes...

fuck me you're a child...


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

erm no, you said "he's not working with the DW team anymore", which is clearly wrong, as my link proved. anyway, stop being a fucking wanker and spoiling the thread like you do on all the others you ever post on. it's really, really annoying.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> erm no, you said "he's not working with the DW team anymore", which is clearly wrong, as my link proved. anyway, stop being a fucking wanker and spoiling the thread like you do on all the others you ever post on. it's really, really annoying.


ah i've got it it's that you think dotor fautus and dr who are like the same dr... tell me is steven moffit doing faustus?  or is it that karen gillan and terry gillian are too similar for your tiny mind...

or is it that him doing the play until at least october might be him not working with the DW team anymore... oh wait it's that your a childish prat isn't it...

so tell me is dr fautus and dr who the same thing if it's an entirely different project you child then you're still wrong...

why not just admit you reacted rashly and be done with it, rather than this continue pathetic hole digging which is making you look foolish, particlarlly when it's about a kids tv program... you fucking child...


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

are you pissed or just stupid?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> While I could be mistaken, I don't think he really went into that - because it would be looking at an intrinsic paradoxical problem for Who. Whenever they say "oh we've changed time so X never happened", it's a lie - it clearly _did_ happen, otherwise nobody would ever have noticed, and nobody would have remembered, and that would be a crap TV show. They destroyed that universe.
> 
> You can't have something that didn't happen which people remember - unless the whole of Who is in fact just a hallucination by the Doctor and companions, and none of it ever happens.


without going all sliders, technically they aren't destroy the viewed/observed time line would allow for the multiverse theory so they wouldn't be destroyed just no longer in the observed timeline.  every action and all that jazz...  which again they did kind of go into in the tolifegine (sp?) master thang...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> are you pissed or just stupid?


nope but you are clearly both.

I made a comment based on something one of the actors said you said I was lying it turns out the actor did say it you then claim I'm still wrong despite me having posted proof and a quote of the actor saying it, you then claim that he's in it regardless which is not really true as he's a recurring charchter which for all we know at this time might be a flash back or a brief xmas special appearance, i make the comment that in any case he's now doing plays again something you claimed was a lie which again it isn't.

why not just STFU now you're making yourself look like a child.


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

i didn't say you were lying, i just said you were talking shit.

your exact claim was "he's not working with the DW team anymore", which *isn't fucking true*.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> i didn't say you were lying, i just said you were talking shit.
> 
> your exact claim was "he's not working with the DW team anymore", which *isn't fucking true*.


he's not he's working with gilliam on doctor fautus somehting I've fucking posted a link to an interview with him talking about his new play you child... what part of that don't you get.

I didn't say he's never working with them again, did I?

I said he's not working with the DW team anymore, he's moved on to a new job.  you know that's what actors do right their do a gig and then do another gig in something else... next you'll be telling me that tennant in other things is still the dr... ffs grow up...


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

you're trolling now


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

at least, i hope you're trolling.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> you're trolling now


you say this like I ever do anything else... ffs...


----------



## strung out (Sep 12, 2011)

night


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> night


day actually it's like morning...


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 12, 2011)

A proper gem of an episode, and one I will watch again. My grandkids loved it .


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 12, 2011)

I think I'll watch it again tonight. I rarely want to watch it twice, apart from the Ecclestone era, so well done Moffat & co for the finest ep since Blink.


----------



## Corax (Sep 12, 2011)

gnoriac said:


> "Rory, don't you love me now I've got old?" would've been much more melodramatic.


Even better would have been pointing out to young Amy that he didn't love old her now she was wrinkly, so he must be a superficial sunnovabitch and not truly love her at all.  Whilst on the face of things young Amy would reject it, there could then be an underlying distrust and tension in their relationship which could be built on to become the crux of a future storyline.

Happy ever after my arse.  Give them heartbreak and misery.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 12, 2011)

Didn't do it for me. And the music and 3rd rate action movie sequences ruin it.
I dont want to be told how to feel all the time - this bit is sad, this bit is exciting!, this bit is stirring ..
I'm not asking much, and I know its old school - but can we please occasionally have a scary baddy with a nasty plan that the doctor defeats with some credible cleverness. Without the over sentimental bollocks, smart arse story arcs and shit, OTT backing music.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 12, 2011)

I liked it when tennant defeated the master by the power of everyone believing in him like he was fucking jesus. That was hilarious. You didn't get that sort of cheese in the old days.


----------



## Santino (Sep 12, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked it when tennant defeated the master by the power of everyone believing in him like he was fucking jesus. That was hilarious. You didn't get that sort of cheese in the old days.


At least it was partly set up by the Master having himself built the psychic mobile phone network that allowed the Doctor to do that. Better than when Rose swallowed the TARDIS energy in one of the most literal deus ex machina plot devices ever.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 12, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Didn't do it for me. And the music and 3rd rate action movie sequences ruin it.
> I dont want to be told how to feel all the time - this bit is sad, this bit is exciting!, this bit is stirring ..
> I'm not asking much, and I know its old school - but can we please occasionally have a scary baddy with a nasty plan that the doctor defeats with some credible cleverness. Without the over sentimental bollocks, smart arse story arcs and shit, OTT backing music.


repeat to fade every episode from here to eternity...

this is becoming a standard review...


----------



## gsv (Sep 12, 2011)

Amy and Rory have been subjected to multiple profound traumas, inclusing losing their child, being made of plastic for 2000 years and being forced to choose between Amy and Amy. If they don't get off the TARDIS now, they deserve all the shit they get.

GS(v)


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 12, 2011)

Or their benefits docked, at least.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 14, 2011)

John Barrowboy confirms that he is a pillock by stating that having a female Dr would be good


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 14, 2011)

Gromit said:


> John Barrowboy confirms that he is a pillock by stating that hav. ing a female Dr would be food


and any of this means in english...


----------



## PlaidDragon (Sep 14, 2011)

What's wrong with having a female Doctor? Donna managed it well enough...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 14, 2011)

well i think if you like it then I'm against it on principal...


----------



## Gromit (Sep 14, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> What's wrong with having a female Doctor? Donna managed it well enough...



Briefly and for comedy value. A whole series of Doctor Donna would have me reaching for my shotgun. 

Female timelord yes. 
Gender swapping timelords no. 

Imagine hetro married time lords suddenly finding they were suddenly in a gay marriage and gay time lords having to have straight sex when their partner flips.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 14, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Female timelord yes.
> Gender swapping timelords no.



First one of course and the second has now been introduced (cf: The Dr's Wife re: The Corsair "naughty girl")


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

yeah, i'm less against a female doctor than i used to be


----------



## Corax (Sep 14, 2011)

I prefer it.  Men have sausage-like proddy fingers.  A woman's touch is more delicate.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't care whether the Doctor is male, female, gay, straight, transgender, black, white, purple, old or young just as long as the actor portraying the character is as good as Eccleston, Tennant and Smith have been.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm torn between Russell Brand and Christopher Walken.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Sep 14, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> well i think if you like it then I'm against it on principal...


Cool story bro.


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2011)

Just as long as s/he isn't Jewish. Right, everyone?


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

well obviously. incidentally, you'll never guess who would have played the doctor if moffat had got his first choice when casting doctor #11


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> well obviously. incidentally, you'll never guess who would have played the doctor if moffat had got his first choice when casting doctor #11



I think I know this one. Was it Sid James?


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

if only he'd been alive, god rest his soul


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2011)

Topol?


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> well obviously. incidentally, you'll never guess who would have played the doctor if moffat had got his first choice when casting doctor #11


I didn't want to be typecast


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> well obviously. incidentally, you'll never guess who would have played the doctor if moffat had got his first choice when casting doctor #11



Is this the Patterson Joseph story?


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> Is this the Patterson Joseph story?


that's the one. i can't remember why he didn't do it in the end.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 14, 2011)

Happy with him for twelfth and final.


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Happy with him for twelfth and final.


why would the twelfth doctor be the final one?


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> that's the one. i can't remember why he didn't do it in the end.


so what's the story with why he didn't end up with it? money, or more senior beeb types objecting?



strung out said:


> why would the twelfth doctor be the final one?


it's the lore!


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

i was told once, but i don't remember unfortunately.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 14, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> I'm torn between Russell Brand and Christopher Walken.


Benedict Cumberbatch?


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2011)

Oh, Johnson.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> why would the twelfth doctor be the final one?



You know perfectly well. Mawdryn Undead, looms, etc etc. Given extra credence in post-reboot canon when River uses up all her regenerations, which she acquired accidentally and certainly not as a bequest from Gallifrey.


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2011)

Even if you believe in the twelve regeneration thing, there'll still be a thirteenth Doctor. Besides, he has all River Song's goes now too.


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> it's the lore!


well the lore says the doctor has 13 lives. then again, the lore can be changed by anyone who's writing the show. the master was given extra regenerations by the time-lords


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> that's the one



It was a weird one, that. I know of one pretty well respected geek website that reported Joseph had got the Who gig weeks before it was announced he hadn't. The site was very, very sure and said the news came from a Who insider that had been reliable before. I have no idea why he didn't get it (although Smith's brilliance is probably the main reason) but I read an excerpt from an interview Joseph did a while ago in which he confirmed he'd got very close to winning the role. Personally, I think he'd have made a good Doctor.


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> It was a weird one, that. I know of one pretty well respected geek website that reported Joseph had got the Who gig weeks before it was announced he hadn't. The site was very, very sure and said the news came from a Who insider that had been reliable before. I have no idea why he didn't get it (although Smith's brilliance is probably the main reason) but I read an excerpt from an interview Joseph did a while ago in which he confirmed he'd got very close to winning the role. Personally, I think he'd have made a good Doctor.


yeah, i could probably find out the exact reason, but probably not if the person i asked knew i was going to post it all up on an internet forum


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 14, 2011)

The fifth doctor says that he will no longer be able to regenerate if he helps out the seven old duffers in Mawdryn Undead. The maths works for me.


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2011)

In an episode of the Sarah Jane Wotsits, he said he had about 500 regenerations anyway so ner. Probably got an upgrade during the Time War.  Or he's like Highlander and got more powerful when all the other Timelords died. Or ceased to have ever existed, or whatever.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 14, 2011)

There are some quotes from Joseph about it here...

http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2010/01/survivors-actor-paterson-josep.html


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 14, 2011)

Santino said:


> In an episode of the Sarah Jane Wotsits, he said he had about 500 regenerations anyway so ner. .



The Wotsits? Surely he's a Space Raider, if anything. You are utterly confused.


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2011)

the 'offical' story, as i remember it,  was that it was his until matty boy turned up on the last day and simply 'inhabitted the character' - which always sounded like bullshit


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> yeah, i could probably find out the exact reason, but probably not if the person i asked knew i was going to post it all up on an internet forum



That's a shame - I'd be very interested in finding out what happened there. I suspect he might be considered too old to take over from Smith in a couple of years...


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> well the lore says the doctor has 13 lives. then again, the lore can be changed by anyone who's writing the show. the master was given extra regenerations by the time-lords


and the Keeper of Traken


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> It was a weird one, that. I know of one pretty well respected geek website that reported Joseph had got the Who gig weeks before it was announced he hadn't. The site was very, very sure and said the news came from a Who insider that had been reliable before. I have no idea why he didn't get it (although Smith's brilliance is probably the main reason) but I read an excerpt from an interview Joseph did a while ago in which he confirmed he'd got very close to winning the role. Personally, I think he'd have made a good Doctor.


 
certain quarters of the viewing public would have shit bricks about wibberal PC beeb having a black doctor.


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> and the Keeper of Traken


yup!

does anyone remember in the TV movie when mcgann's doctor mouths that he can regenerate 13 times but the dubbed voiceover says 12?


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> yup!
> 
> does anyone remember in the TV movie when mcgann's doctor mouths that he can regenerate 13 times but the dubbed voiceover says 12?



Shit, I have that on VHS... might dig it out this weekend. Also, recently in the SJA spin off there was some controversy about regens but I don't watch it so not sure...

If the programme continues to be successful, am sure they can come up with all manner of excuses to prolong his lifespan...


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 14, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> certain quarters of the viewing public would have shit bricks about wibberal PC beeb having a black doctor.



I don't doubt it for a moment. I'd still put money on it happening at some point soon(ish) though.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 14, 2011)

andy2002 said:


> I don't doubt it for a moment. I'd still put money on it happening at some point soon(ish) though.


I really thought Joseph might get the gig. He still could, 'less they want to continue with the more youthful approach...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> it's the lore!





strung out said:


> well the lore says the doctor has 13 lives. then again, the lore can be changed by anyone who's writing the show. the master was given extra regenerations by the time-lords


 
not since river song gave him all her regenerations which may have been many or none extra... hence the use of the plot device... no more limits...


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 14, 2011)

Does anyone really think they're limited to 12/13/pi regenerations?

I'd leave it, honestly.


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> Does anyone really think they're limited to 12/13/pi regenerations?


no one's really believed it since Tom Bakers day, have they?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 14, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> Does anyone really think they're limited to 12/13/pi regenerations?
> 
> I'd leave it, honestly.


no especially if they look at this series where they said as much in donating all rivers songs remaining generations to him... ffs I've said this so many times can people no longer read...


----------



## strung out (Sep 14, 2011)

tbf, your posts aren't that easy to read at the best of times


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2011)

rarely worth translating into english either


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> tbf, your posts aren't that easy to read at the best of times


only if you're a touch thick...

most above average intelligence people have little issue with them...

I mean really, did you think you'd end up in the same camp as bellies....


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> most above average intelligence people have little issue with them...


yeah, but thats cos we ignore most of them


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 14, 2011)

Guys, please.


----------



## T & P (Sep 14, 2011)

How many people started conjuring images while watching this episode of Rory and the two Amys having it off? I cannot be the only one.


----------



## gsv (Sep 14, 2011)

Dude...<sigh>

GS(v)


----------



## kabbes (Sep 14, 2011)

What the fuck?  The focus of all their lives for, like, _years _gets resolved in Major Happenings in a big story that still leaves MAJOR questions unanswered and... what happens next?  Nobody talks about it for two episodes, that's what.  I mean, WTF?  Off to have a little explore of a pleasure planet, are we, rather than working out what the fuck it going on?  Brilliant.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 14, 2011)

I think we might have to wait until the final episode before we see any of it again (River Song, the Silence, the Impossible Astronaut etc). The next two episodes are standalone episodes from what I can make out. I wonder if the 'season finale' will be extended to fit it all in.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 14, 2011)

It's a real kick in the verisimilitude that it wouldn't even be on their minds.  You've just discovered that your missing daughter actually grew up with you as your best friend and you just let it go with barely a nod?


----------



## T & P (Sep 14, 2011)

kabbes said:


> It's a real kick in the verisimilitude that it wouldn't even be on their minds. You've just discovered that your missing daughter actually grew up with you as your best friend and you just let it go with barely a nod?


Speaking of which, have they pretty much given up on getting her back while she's still a baby? They have a time machine after all...


----------



## kabbes (Sep 14, 2011)

It's all bollocks, frankly.  Almost as much bollocks as the last Torchwood story.  The whole thing has the feel of something that future Who fans will retcon out of existence.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 14, 2011)

The doctor had his final regeneration, then got Riversong's. 

Whether they decide that worth 1 last chance or another 10 (River used 2) will be Y
upto the makers.


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2011)

kabbes said:


> It's all bollocks, frankly. Almost as much bollocks as the last Torchwood story.


Whoa there, fella.


----------



## Santino (Sep 14, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The doctor had his final regeneration, then got Riversong's.
> 
> Whether they decide that worth 1 last chance or another 10 (River used 2) will be Y
> upto the makers.


What do you think will make up their minds? The internal logic of the story? The viewing figures? International and merchandise sales?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 14, 2011)

Sorry, but I was quite excited by "A good man goes to war" and this is just a MAJOR LET DOWN.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 14, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The doctor had his final regeneration, then got Riversong's.
> 
> Whether they decide that worth 1 last chance or another 10 (River used 2) will be Y
> upto the makers.


Song was a child of the tardis and therefore got regeneration as a genetically developed anti dr weapon. There's no reason to assume that she had a standard number of regenerations. In theory the limit was applied by the timelords. Hence the master going on trial for exceeding his regenerations and having more and if we take the Drums episodes he has one to turn in to the old dude and then John sim and was the master in the movie too so 13 was only ever a social convention not a physical one.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 14, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Sorry, but I was quite excited by "A good man goes to war" and this is just a MAJOR LET DOWN.



Not enough story arcs! Too many story arcs! Damn your eyes sir!


----------



## Gromit (Sep 14, 2011)

Santino said:


> What do you think will make up their minds? The internal logic of the story? The viewing figures? International and merchandise sales?



Dr Who fanboys bombarding them with helpful email advice


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> Not enough story arcs! Too many story arcs! Damn your eyes sir!


I don't think the problem is either.  The problem is a great set-up over a number of episodes with a gradual wind-up and explosive cliffhanger... that then just fizzles to nothing in the next three episodes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 17, 2011)

Now what did the Doctor see in his room? Whatever it was it is why he dumped amy and rory, I think. The muslim nurse lady was just a misdirection I think....


----------



## strung out (Sep 17, 2011)

it was the cloister bell sounding when he went into his room wasn't it?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 17, 2011)

hmm thats the 'your tardis is fucked' noise...


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 17, 2011)

is it possible that amy and rory will stay dumped? I really hope so, tbh  - but i can't see them losing Karen Gillan easily.  Actually, tbf - i'd watch a rory williams spin off series. he's my favourite companion.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 17, 2011)

I wonder if Rory might come to a sticky end in his red E-type.

God! She looked _soooooooo_ good leaning on that.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 17, 2011)

That's them done save for guest appearances. Presumably this means that everything apparently so carefully woven into the grand story arc such as Rory really being an Auton, all that business with the fake hospital ID etc was coincidental/for nothing.

Definately more Chris Carter than J Michael Straczynski.


----------



## Quartz (Sep 17, 2011)

I thought I'd read that she'd signed on for next year? Or maybe the naked-in-corridor episode was too much?


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 17, 2011)

Quartz said:


> I thought I'd read that she'd signed on for next year? Or maybe the naked-in-corridor episode was too much?


I must have missed that epsiode. Is it available for downloading anywhere?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 17, 2011)

Another year, but only sporadically a la River.

I hope this doesn't mean I don't get my Rory action figure. There are already three of Amy and two of River


----------



## gsv (Sep 17, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Now what did the Doctor see in his room? Whatever it was it is why he dumped amy and rory, I think. The muslim nurse lady was just a misdirection I think....


It's your deepest fear. The Daleks? Himself? The companions he's killed? The ones he hasn't? The life he's running from?
The question's more interesting than the answers - I hope we never find out.

GS(v)


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 17, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> Not enough story arcs! Too many story arcs! Damn your eyes sir!


Why do people say "story arc" when they just mean "story", or actually quite often just "sub plot"? A story arc is something quite specific. It is dramatic structure, with various phases (5 or 7, depending on who you read), classically comprising: exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and denouement. That's a story arc; and the arc metaphor refers to the structure.  So how did the phrase come to mean merely "ongoing storyline intended to tie the series together (which may just be alluded to briefly at the end of the episode)"?


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 18, 2011)

Well I enjoyed that one so much I forgot to smoke the spliff I had ready


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 18, 2011)

Very sensitive and nuanced, I thought, on the complicated nature of relationships/dependencies as between yer adult male and a young woman/children. Beautiful in its way.

I wondered if what the Doctor might fear most would be Amy growing out of her child-like adoration.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 18, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> hmm thats the 'your tardis is fucked' noise...


Somewhere between that and your universe is fucked.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 18, 2011)

When this series hasn't been about River bleeding dreary Song, it has been extraordinarily good. Liked the Pasiphae Spa.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 18, 2011)

Did anyone see Amy find that piece of paper? The one she forgot about? Why was Rory talking in the past tense?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 18, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> Did anyone see Amy find that piece of paper? The one she forgot about? Why was Rory talking in the past tense?


yes she picked it up there was a low camera shot of it...


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 18, 2011)

part of it reminded me of that bit in curse of fenric

missed the noise of the cloister bell if that was what it was


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 18, 2011)

I must of blinked.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 18, 2011)

I bet it was the Valeyard he saw


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 18, 2011)

I assumed that the room with young Pond was the Doctor's.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 18, 2011)

It was obviously an obscure character I've never heard of from one of the new adventure book because thats how tv works.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 18, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> When this series hasn't been about River bleeding dreary Song, it has been extraordinarily good. Liked the Pasiphae Spa.


I've only seen the last two episodes but both were outrageously smart.


----------



## Cid (Sep 18, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I assumed that the room with young Pond was the Doctor's.



Pond's; fear of doctor not coming back.

The previous episode pissed me off a bit, why would a quarantine facility designed by a species that clearly had a lot of contact with other species not have a 'sorry, I'm an alien' option?


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 18, 2011)

The highlight of this latest episode was probably the man in the gorilla suit at the beginning. I lol'd


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 18, 2011)

Cid said:


> Pond's; fear of doctor not coming back.
> 
> The previous episode pissed me off a bit, why would a quarantine facility designed by a species that clearly had a lot of contact with other species not have a 'sorry, I'm an alien' option?


If you break into a quarantine facility you get what you deserve. As the disease only affects two hearted species which seem quite rare especially as time lords no longer exist. There were probably a shit load of security measures and get the fuck out signs the Tardis bypassed.


----------



## gnoriac (Sep 18, 2011)

I was so sure that Rita would be the next companion, with the Doctor almost drooling over her perceptiveness or whatever. Bit surprised she got killed off.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 18, 2011)

When is the repeat? I was out last night and missed it.


----------



## strung out (Sep 18, 2011)

it's repeated on friday i think, or you can watch it on iplayer of course http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b014vy02/Doctor_Who_Series_6_The_God_Complex/


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 18, 2011)

whenever you like, on the iplayer. I think you are going to cuss it though, the monster was well shit this week


----------



## Cid (Sep 18, 2011)

gnoriac said:


> I was so sure that Rita would be the next companion, with the Doctor almost drooling over her perceptiveness or whatever. Bit surprised she got killed off.



Yeah, but you should know by now that something that obvious is going to end in tears.


----------



## strung out (Sep 18, 2011)

david walliams was quite good too i thought, but then again he was playing a slightly creepy outsider with insecurities who deep down only wanted to be loved


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 18, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> whenever you like, on the iplayer. I think you are going to cuss it though, the monster was well shit this week



I live to love / hate Dr Who in all it's incarations.
I was just yesterday cursing two lame target books for kids whilst reading the whole thing in a sitting.
I have a massive backlog of DVDs to get though which I can't quite bare to put on, even with the production notes.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 18, 2011)

strung out said:


> david walliams was quite good too i thought, but then again he was playing a slightly creepy outsider with insecurities who deep down only wanted to be loved


Maybe, but given what it seems to have done to his face he's pretty brave to have finished swimming the Thames.


----------



## Augie March (Sep 18, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Now what did the Doctor see in his room? Whatever it was it is why he dumped amy and rory, I think. The muslim nurse lady was just a misdirection I think....



James Corden was in there.


----------



## strung out (Sep 18, 2011)

next week's looks interesting. it's a sequel to last season's episode The Lodger, which featured a Silence control room in it if you remember correctly.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 18, 2011)

strung out said:


> next week's looks interesting. it's a sequel to last season's episode The Lodger, which featured a Silence control room in it if you remember correctly.


I liked that one.


----------



## Augie March (Sep 18, 2011)

From the Wiki entry on next weeks episode Closing Time:



> Writer Gareth Roberts said in an interview that he was considering bringing the character of Craig back when James Corden was cast and he saw his performance, saying that "it already felt like he was one of the _Who_ family". It was also his idea to bring back the Cybermen, because there were no other returning monsters in the series and he thought "there should be a sense of history about the Doctor's final battle to save Earth before he heads off to meet his death"


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 18, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> whenever you like, on the iplayer. I think you are going to cuss it though, the monster was well shit this week



Saw it today.
You were correct. Well shit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 18, 2011)

A crappy minator that made me recall the days of no-budget old who. I think they spent all the budget for that episode on the set, which was admittedly pretty cool, but the hoofed thing was crap.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 18, 2011)

There was far too much CGI under RTD. Give me jobbing actors sweating in risible minotaur suits any day.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 18, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> A crappy minator that made me recall the days of no-budget old who. I think they spent all the budget for that episode on the set, which was admittedly pretty cool, but the hoofed thing was crap.



Picarda is right, it's better than any CGI shit but it was still shit.
It was far more scary when you couldn't see it. My four year old was frightened until she saw it, then she just laughed. When it stared walking backwards just before it died she thought it was hilarious. I don't remember thinking Doctor who was funny as a kid, even as a far older kid.


----------



## strung out (Sep 18, 2011)

i wonder if the cybermen next week are going to be proper cybermen from mondas, or the ones from alternate earth


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 18, 2011)

Do they still do cybermen from mondas?

I would love to see something about the history of the cybermen that was at the time unfilmable and only mentioned by the doctor.
For a race of 'humans plus' they were a bit shit in their first incarnation with all that crap they had to hold and carry around.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 18, 2011)

I was offended by the shitness of the Minator. Ma was offended by the perceived slight against people who hold a faith. I didn't even watch Confidential to hear the excuses.

That said I am still wondering about that nursery rhyme 'here comes the chopper to chop of your head' we have heard that a lot now.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 18, 2011)

I thought it was a bit pussy when the Doctor did not commit to saying that intelligent races don't believe in daft god type things and sun worshiping.

Actually, at least the sun bloody feeds everything that is alive on our planet and keeps every thing working, what has jesus done lately?


----------



## strung out (Sep 18, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Do they still do cybermen from mondas?



we haven't seen any cybermen from our universe since the show returned in 05, apart from a solitary cyberman at stone henge 2000 years ago in the final episode of the last series.

if the ones next week are from our universe, then they would have originally come from mondas, but god knows what their home planet is now. i lose track.


----------



## Chz (Sep 18, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I thought it was a bit pussy when the Doctor did not commit to saying that intelligent races don't believe in daft god type things and sun worshiping.
> 
> Actually, at least the sun bloody feeds everything that is alive on our planet and keeps every thing working, what has jesus done lately?


----------



## Santino (Sep 18, 2011)

strung out said:


> we haven't seen any cybermen from our universe since the show returned in 05, apart from a solitary cyberman at stone henge 2000 years ago in the final episode of the last series.
> 
> if the ones next week are from our universe, then they would have originally come from mondas, but god knows what their home planet is now. i lose track.


What about the C-men that Rory interrogated and the Doctor blew up before Demons Run?


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 18, 2011)

Chz said:


>



That's clearly Thor. Mythology fail.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 18, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> That's clearly Thor. Mythology fail.


And it's not just the hammer; he has one too many eyes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Maybe, but given what it seems to have done to his face he's pretty brave to have finished swimming the Thames.


 
he has said swimming the thames is a lot like politics, you start off at oxford and if you swallow enough shit you end up at parliament LOL


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> he has said swimming the thames is a lot like politics, you start off at oxford and if you swallow enough shit you end up at parliament LOL


So much for working class representation, then.


----------



## strung out (Sep 19, 2011)

Santino said:


> What about the C-men that Rory interrogated and the Doctor blew up before Demons Run?


you're right, my memory is shit


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> My four year old was frightened until she saw it, then she just laughed. When it stared walking backwards just before it died she thought it was hilarious. I don't remember thinking Doctor who was funny as a kid, even as a far older kid.



I don't think it was supposed to be scary once it was dying, you were just meant to feel sorry for it as it was only a monster because it was trying to survive. I think it was supposed to give an insight into the how the doctor feels which is why he was so quick to point out that the it was the Minotaur that felt a certain way instead of him, and I think that was a clue as to what was behind his door.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 19, 2011)

> an ancient creature drenched in the blood of the innocent, drifting in space in an endless shifting maze for such a creature death would be a gift and accepted and sleep well ... i wasn't talking about myself



I think the episode was a vehicle for this line.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 19, 2011)

there wasn't anything behind the door

it was left unseen  so  they can  do anything with it  or just leave it unexplained

this  is their  way


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 19, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> there wasn't anything behind the door
> 
> it was left unseen so they can do anything with it or just leave it unexplained
> 
> this is their way


It was _'Er Indoors_.  Or Fat Brenda, from Corrie.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 19, 2011)

actually thinking about this season  the biggest thing  that bugged me   was the whole reaction  to  the whole amy and river  thing.    in  one episode she  obviously  really  loves her baby and is desperate to get it back then  by the next  episode  it  just   she was river song all along  and nobody really cares.   and the best explanation we get is that  they were close to mel  so  this sorta makes everything ok.  iit's  just really  fucking  wierd  and  doesn't feel right.  the emotional tonality of the show is totally out of wack


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2011)

You know when things are meant to be sad because they turn the music up and Matt does his serious face.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 19, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> actually thinking about this season the biggest thing that bugged me was the whole reaction to the whole amy and river thing. in one episode she obviously really loves her baby and is desperate to get it back then by the next episode it just she was river song all along and nobody really cares. and the best explanation we get is that they were close to mel so this sorta makes everything ok. iit's just really fucking wierd and doesn't feel right. the emotional tonality of the show is totally out of wack


That's what I was getting at weeks ago! Ask any mother and they'll say losing their baby/child is one of their biggest fears


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 19, 2011)

i let it slide at the  time   but  it's  seriously nagging at me.

also   what does rory think of the doctor?    sometimes they are like mates  and  other times  rory  has barley restrained anger directed at him.    and  it  just  filpflops week to week.

i think this maybe  a fault with the the  writing of   the show.   it's  not  really  meant  to  have  much   of  a  overarching plot  or  follow through.   this means   individual writers  have  freedom to  do something a little  diffrent  each episode.  however  if  you  put in  serious   emotional  happening  week to week it  leaves  everything out of wack.

i mean old  who suffered  from this  a bit too.  like the  very next episode after adric dies  they  just  have a throwaway line  about  how sad they are  and then business as useual.  however   new who  ramps  up   the emotional conflict  therefore   it becomes even more noticible  when it has no lingering affect


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2011)

showing extended grief for the loss of adric would have been stretching everyones credulity though


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 19, 2011)

There's load's of stuff like that, I mean they all set off at the end of the last series to find out who could control the tardis and blow up the universe but there has not even been a mention of it this time round


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> My four year old was frightened until she saw it, then she just laughed. When it stared walking backwards just before it died she thought it was hilarious. I don't remember thinking Doctor who was funny as a kid, even as a far older kid.


Kids of today. Far more jaded and cynical to things like minotaurs that feed off nightmares 


Shippou-Sensei said:


> also what does rory think of the doctor? sometimes they are like mates and other times rory has barley restrained anger directed at him. and it just filpflops week to week.


I know what you mean, but I think that's kind of the point. They can be pally together, because they're spending so much time together I suppose, but when it comes down to it Rory cares little for the Doctor and is all about Amy, and so when the Doctor's antics threaten Amy, Rory engages protective mode.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 19, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i mean old who suffered from this a bit too. like the very next episode after adric dies they just have a throwaway line about how sad they are and then business as useual. however new who ramps up the emotional conflict therefore it becomes even more noticible when it has no lingering affect



The doctor does bring up Adric at a later date with some lament doesn't he? I seem to remember him seeing Adric in a mirror.
Anyway you are right of course, as a kid though that did linger with me and I oddly at the time (though I hate to admit it even to myself) I really liked Adric, I even hoped they would somehow write him back into the script however stupid that would be.

I guess it is just a kids show.

What I do really miss is stories that do not end in one episode. The fact that it was an adventure serial that had you thinking about it all week was quite exciting. Now you just get a trailer that you know the programme will never live up to.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 19, 2011)

The show definitely needs more cliffhangers


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Now you just get a trailer that you know the programme will never live up to.



tbf your kids does have a dad who looks like an extra from a tank girl comic... that's going to take some beating in terms of injecting additional fantasy in to their lives...


----------



## Cid (Sep 19, 2011)

Augie March said:


> From the Wiki entry on next weeks episode Closing Time:
> 
> 
> 
> > _Writer Gareth Roberts said in an interview that he was considering bringing the character of Craig back when James Corden was cast and he saw his performance, saying that "it already felt like he was one of the Who family". It was also his idea to bring back the Cybermen, because there were no other returning monsters in the series and he thought "there should be a sense of history about the Doctor's final battle to save Earth before he heads off to meet his death"_



Please, by all that is holy, don't let them be setting him up as a companion.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 19, 2011)

No one had a room with their name on (did they?) or allocated in the register? So, why use a hotel setting, then? What other sci-fi has used hotels?


----------



## Santino (Sep 19, 2011)

There's a Star Trek episode where they encounter a fake hotel based on a trashy novel some long-dead astronaut was carrying.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 19, 2011)

Cid said:


> Please, by all that is holy, don't let them be setting him up as a companion.


whilst i think the man is a witless feck, I also thought this of Cahterine tate and she did alright... so maybe this is the redemption of Corden...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 19, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> No one had a room with their name on (did they?) or allocated in the register? So, why use a hotel setting, then? What other sci-fi has used hotels?


cos it was a clear shining reference.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 19, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> tbf your kids does have a dad who looks like an extra from a tank girl comic... that's going to take some beating in terms of injecting additional fantasy in to their lives...



AS watching Dr Who:


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> he has said swimming the thames is a lot like politics, you start off at oxford and if you swallow enough shit you end up at parliament LOL


 
funnily enough that line was on mock the week , and wasnt quoted as david walliams saying it...

...


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> showing extended grief for the loss of adric would have been stretching everyones credulity though


it brought a tear to my eye at the time, mind.


----------



## strung out (Sep 19, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> No one had a room with their name on (did they?) or allocated in the register? So, why use a hotel setting, then? What other sci-fi has used hotels?


and lest we forget Delta and the Bannermen which was set in a 1950s holiday camp.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2011)

Prisoner  set in a holiday village....stretching it a bit...that fucking white ball was better than the minataur


----------



## Augie March (Sep 19, 2011)

I read somewhere today that All Star Family Fortunes beat Who in the ratings on Saturday. That must be causing a many furrowed brow at the Big British Castle.


----------



## strung out (Sep 19, 2011)

those ratings are a bit misleading. doctor who traditionally doubles its audience (ish) through people who have recorded it, watch it on repeats and on iplayer, whereas family fortunes was firstly boosted by x-factor being on afterwards, and secondly won't have anywhere near the amount of top-up viewers that doctor who gets.

with corrie, eastenders, strictly, new tricks and x-factor, doctor who should comfortably be in the top 5 or 6 highest rated shows on telly (as it is most weeks) once all the additional viewers are added.

e2a: iplayer viewings aren't included in the consolidated ratings which come out next month either because they're not public for some reason, so with that 'final' figure of 7.5m (at a rough guess), the number of people who watch doctor who each week is actually around the 10 million mark. the papers never seem to report this though, and revel in the 'doctor who is losing viewers' rubbish


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 19, 2011)

Cid said:


> Please, by all that is holy, don't let them be setting him up as a companion.


not possible. he's just transferred to the west end in 'one man, two guv'nors' and i was told by the staff director that after that they're going to broadway. corden won't be available for filming for yonks - far longer than darvill's regular-length run in faust.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 19, 2011)

Maybe it's Walliams.....


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 19, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Maybe it's Walliams.....



Yeah, he's got to go with someone he doesn't mind becoming dead.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 19, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> AS watching Dr Who:



That would be great, but it's more akin to this.





With wine.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 19, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know what you mean, but I think that's kind of the point. They can be pally together, because they're spending so much time together I suppose, but when it comes down to it Rory cares little for the Doctor and is all about Amy, and so when the Doctor's antics threaten Amy, Rory engages protective mode.



but he isn't a robot  and these feeling should linger  he shouldn't just reset at  the  end of each episode.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The doctor does bring up Adric at a later date with some lament doesn't he? I seem to remember him seeing Adric in a mirror.
> Anyway you are right of course, as a kid though that did linger with me and I oddly at the time (though I hate to admit it even to myself) I really liked Adric, I even hoped they would somehow write him back into the script however stupid that would be.
> 
> I guess it is just a kids show.
> ...



yeah   he does  bring up adric  a bit.    the regeneration  as well.   it's  not like  they drop it and never mention it again  but   it was never lingered over

i feel the same about multipart episodes.   they just feel a bit more fulfilling.  everything  just had a little more time  to flesh itself out


----------



## Augie March (Sep 19, 2011)

strung out said:


> those ratings are a bit misleading. doctor who traditionally doubles its audience (ish) through people who have recorded it, watch it on repeats and on iplayer, whereas family fortunes was firstly boosted by x-factor being on afterwards, and secondly won't have anywhere near the amount of top-up viewers that doctor who gets.
> 
> with corrie, eastenders, strictly, new tricks and x-factor, doctor who should comfortably be in the top 5 or 6 highest rated shows on telly (as it is most weeks) once all the additional viewers are added.
> 
> e2a: iplayer viewings aren't included in the consolidated ratings which come out next month either because they're not public for some reason, so with that 'final' figure of 7.5m (at a rough guess), the number of people who watch doctor who each week is actually around the 10 million mark. the papers never seem to report this though, and revel in the 'doctor who is losing viewers' rubbish



I didn't think that those ratings were including catch-up viewings. I can't imagine All Star Family Fortunes scores all that highly in that area.

Incidentally, I've found this neat little site which sexes up the history of Doctor Who's ratings with some graph porn.

http://www.themindrobber.co.uk/ratings.html


----------



## strung out (Sep 19, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i feel the same about multipart episodes. they just feel a bit more fulfilling. everything just had a little more time to flesh itself out


the majority of multi-part episodes was people chasing each other around corridors etc

do you remember planet of the spiders where they spent a whole 25 minute episode chasing a villain using various vehicles over air, sea and land, only for the villain to teleport right back to where they started just as they were about to catch him?

doesn't matter so much when you've got it on dvd, but when you wait a whole week just to see a 25 minute car chase, i'd be pretty pissed off


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 19, 2011)

ok  there were  some that had ridiculous filler.  (invasion of time,  tardis chase involving  running through the same warehouse multiple times)  but   most multi part episode weren't like that  or at least a lot of them


----------



## strung out (Sep 20, 2011)

tim rose who played admiral ackbar in star wars is in next week's episode playing...



Spoiler: in case people don't want to know



the cybermats!


----------



## strung out (Sep 20, 2011)

oh and interestingly enough, i just looked at the cast list for the final episode, and one of the characters is called fenric... *raised eyebrow*


----------



## Balbi (Sep 20, 2011)

*prepares his tarp*

Aye, fenric played by Moff's partner in Sherlock. Surely he's already played one character.


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 20, 2011)

strung out said:


> oh and interestingly enough, i just looked at the cast list for the final episode, and one of the characters is called fenric... *raised eyebrow*


Hmmm. Interesting.



Spoiler



From Tardis wiki

*"Fenric*, also known as *Hastur the Unspeakable* or *Aboo-Fenrán*, was an immensely-powerful sentient force that was at least as old as the universe itself and an intelligence of pure evil.

The being later known as Fenric was one of two forces, one good, one evil, which were present at the Dawn of Time. (DW: _The Curse of Fenric_)
_The fate of the good force, if personified, remains unknown._
Some sources state that Fenric originated not in the beginnings of this universe but, like the other Old Ones, in a universe before this one. These accounts state that Fenric bore (and still bears) the name of *Hastur the Unspeakable*. (NA: _All-Consuming Fire_) The name Fenric came from a mythic figure in Norse mythology. The myths described a monstrous wolf which would, during the final battle between gods and beasts, destroy the world at the end of time. (DW: _The Curse of Fenric_)"

Now, on its own that would be speculation, but.... in one of the last two episodes is this chap







Who, according to some rumours and blah is Odin. Hence the eye patch, which is the same as Madame Kovarians (and River Songs, although we havent seen hers yet).

Nice chess set btw.

TBH, I think there could be a brilliant end to this season if they are mixing in Norse mythology, Fenric, River Songs time as Cleopatra, mummified Cybermen (its all in the latest trailer)



and...in my own speculation...






This cyberman *appears* to have black shoes....


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 20, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i feel the same about multipart episodes. they just feel a bit more fulfilling. everything just had a little more time to flesh itself out



I think I just liked the cliffhangers and pacing and the story not actually ending, there was more. Plus then the promise of a new adventure was just a tantalizing, as by then it was something different.

The new day of the daleks DVD looks interesting.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 20, 2011)

If it turns out to be the fucking Daleks again, I will go mad 

If Moffat's worked out a new enemy, or redone a canon one - hoorah! Last seasons episode, the restarting the universe - the time wibblyness and all - was refreshing in that it wasn't quite as ridiculous as RTD's 'and the grouting between the tiles over the kitchen sink, throw that in too - also jesus' finales.


----------



## Cid (Sep 20, 2011)

Balbi said:


> *prepares his tarp*
> 
> Aye, fenric played by Moff's partner in Sherlock. Surely he's already played one character.



Gatiss? Don't think so, he's written 4 episodes though.

I had no idea his career kicked off writing Dr Who novels.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 20, 2011)

strung out said:


> the majority of multi-part episodes was people chasing each other around corridors etc
> 
> do you remember planet of the spiders where they spent a whole 25 minute episode chasing a villain using various vehicles over air, sea and land, only for the villain to teleport right back to where they started just as they were about to catch him?
> 
> doesn't matter so much when you've got it on dvd, but when you wait a whole week just to see a 25 minute car chase, i'd be pretty pissed off


I don't think anybody would argue that there was too much padding in old Who, but it's possible to strike a happy medium. Loads of the new episodes feel far too rushed.

Though I think that's the writers fault as much as anything, Buffy coped with ~45 minute eps.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 20, 2011)

Cid said:


> Gatiss? Don't think so, he's written 4 episodes though.
> 
> I had no idea his career kicked off writing Dr Who novels.



The Lazarus Experiment under RTD.


----------



## teecee (Sep 20, 2011)

I want to know if the Rubiks Cube is going to mean anything as it's appeared in 2 episodes so far that I've noticed


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm now getting really annoyed by blue vs red bow tie episodes


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 20, 2011)

teecee said:


> I want to know if the Rubiks Cube is going to mean anything as it's appeared in 2 episodes so far that I've noticed


He couldn't do it in the Doll's House story, but he solved it in the Saturday one without much effort.  Hmmm.


----------



## teecee (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah in the kids room it was "broken"


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 20, 2011)

teecee said:


> Yeah in the kids room it was "broken"


Two different Doctors?


----------



## teecee (Sep 20, 2011)

That would just annoy me!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 20, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Two different Doctors?


Clearly the doctor which dies in the the opening episode is the flesh doctor, not the real one...


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 20, 2011)

or the real doctor dies and flesh doctor takes over


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 20, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> or the real doctor dies and flesh doctor takes over


nah the real dr cant' die not without breaking the canon...


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 20, 2011)

i don't think cannon is that much of an issue.  plus   they really did hammer on the point in that  episode  that  the flesh you  really is you.

plus  it can't  be anyworse than the master  being defeated by a carebear stare  or  the spaceship powered by love


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 20, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i don't think cannon is that much of an issue. plus they really did hammer on the point in that episode that the flesh you really is you.
> 
> plus it can't be anyworse than the master being defeated by a carebear stare or the spaceship powered by love


true but i think it was to hammer home the no matter what you might think of the replicants they still have a right to life, type blade runner argument...


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 20, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Clearly the doctor which dies in the the opening episode is the flesh doctor, not the real one...


Indeed.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 20, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> He couldn't do it in the Doll's House story, but he solved it in the Saturday one without much effort. Hmmm.



Flesh Amy and Rory accompanying him?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 20, 2011)

i was really feeling the first part of season six but the second half just inst doing it for me, im even getting a bit bored of Matt Smith


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 20, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> true but i think it was to hammer home the no matter what you might think of the replicants they still have a right to life, type blade runner argument...






			
				Tyrell said:
			
		

> The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 20, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> or the real doctor dies and flesh doctor takes over


since the flesh (circa amy's replacement) is still susceptible to going splash at a blast of sonic screwdriver, that would be quite a high-risk state for all episodes from here on in.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 20, 2011)

The flesh doctor already self pwned tho


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 20, 2011)

Didnt they hint that may not be the case ??


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 20, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> The flesh doctor already self pwned tho



Yeah but they did say something vague about that maybe not being 'it' / the end.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 20, 2011)

everything can be solved through the power of retcons

13 lives?  nah that  just optional.  powered by the eye of harmony? pfft just plonk her down in cardiff for an hour or two to recharge.  etc etc


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 20, 2011)

*Audience* - _"Flesh separates and is fucked?"_
*Writer* - "Nah, if the flesh is in the right form or persona for enough time it is able to later reform over time."
*Audience* -_"Oh wow cool, I didn't know that"_
*Writer* - "yeah might be unstable and fall apart again for good though"
*Audience* - _"Oh right, more jeopardy, yipes"_
*Writer* - "But that might be possible to overcome as well"
*Audience* - _"Phew, it's a roller-coaster ride"_
*Writer* - "Or not"
*Audience* - _"Arrrrrhhh my heart, this writing contains such skill"_


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 20, 2011)

Yes, but here is Amy in a short skirt, again. Silence fools.


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 20, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> *Audience* - _"Flesh separates and is fucked?"_
> *Writer* - "Nah, if the flesh is in the right form or persona for enough time it is able to later reform over time."
> *Audience* -_"Oh wow cool, I didn't know that"_
> *Writer* - "yeah might be unstable and fall apart again for good though"
> ...



Loving your new lyrics


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 20, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Yes, but here is Amy in a short skirt, again. Silence fools.



I hate to say it but I might even be getting bored of that.
Since I heard about the hotel hall, a short skirt just won't cut it.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 20, 2011)

The flesh cannot under normal circumstances hold it forms without a link to the original. The sonic blocked the original so that's why the Amy flesh exploded. They cut of the link to the real Amy who was on Demons Run giving birth. As for the flesh doctor I can't remember why. The monster flesh was stretched so fell apart I guess it may have just been proximity/convenient to the plot. The rubics cube may have something to do with Fenric if he is back. A bit like the chess set in Silver Nemesis.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 20, 2011)

they dent that rule  in the main epiusode  as in that  the signal stops at the beginning of the episode  and the flsh doctor  was never receving a signal


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 21, 2011)

Meh. Dr Who now ripping off Bill and Teds Bogus Journey?

And another story where they are running around a wierdo fantasy land.

I always think fantasy/horror works best when it is tied to a gritty reality. Fantasy settings encourage lazy writing cos you can have _anything_ happen.

And we had an extended touchly feely bit at the end - time that could have been better spent on developing a (better) plot.

Only watching out of habit now really. Moffat has taken Dr Who into a cul-de-sac.


----------



## gosub (Sep 21, 2011)

http://m.chortle.co.uk/index.php?id_news=14014


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 21, 2011)

Wut?


----------



## gosub (Sep 21, 2011)

sorry, was on mobile, din't realise it did that on full browser.  Bill Bailey in Xmas special plus bit of outline


----------



## strung out (Sep 21, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Only watching out of habit now really. Moffat has taken Dr Who into a cul-de-sac.


everyone's entitled to likes and dislikes, but i don't quite know what you mean about moffat having taken dr who into a cul-de-sac. ratings now are higher than they have been for all but the 2008 series, since the show came back.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 21, 2011)

strung out said:


> everyone's entitled to likes and dislikes, but i don't quite know what you mean about moffat having taken dr who into a cul-de-sac. ratings now are higher than they have been for all but the 2008 series, since the show came back.


Not sure what KT means, but in terms of continuing plot, he's painted himself into quite a few corners.  Hence episodes like the Kill Hitler one.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 21, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Not sure what KT means, but in terms of continuing plot, he's painted himself into quite a few corners. Hence episodes like the Kill Hitler one.



Yes - this.


----------



## strung out (Sep 21, 2011)

what do you mean by painted himself into quite a few corners? the series hasn't even finished yet!


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 21, 2011)

I maintain Matt Smith is the best Doctor of the new run. Maybe third overall after Troughton and McCoy


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 21, 2011)

You are wrong, though.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 21, 2011)

Your face is wrong


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 21, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> after Troughton and McCoy



You, sir, are odd.


----------



## strung out (Sep 21, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I maintain Matt Smith is the best Doctor of the new run. Maybe third overall after Troughton and McCoy


matt smith is my favourite of all, bar troughton.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 21, 2011)

i dunno  troughton and mccoy are two of my favs too.  though i'd add tom before i picked matt  for me matt is probably on par  with  davison     i'm not sure where to put pertwee  he is roughly on that level tooo.  he had some better episodes but i'm not sure i like  his doctor's personality as much. hartnel i really respect  for creating the doctor who legend  but i think it was trougton who made doctor who in to the charactor we know today   which is  why he is one of my favs.   i'm in two minds about tennat.  he played a prety good  doctor  but he was in some appaling episodes.    eccleston  and colin are  duking it out  near the bottom   and  peter cushing is  sir not appearing in this list


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 21, 2011)

Baker, Pertwee, Tennant and Smith.   No order.

Not McCoy.  No.


----------



## Corax (Sep 21, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Hmmm. Interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Spoiler: Spoiler for a question about the above



Was the 'Bad Wolf' thing ever resolved? I never remember these things. Just struck by the similarity to _Fenrir, _or *Fenrisúlfr* (Old Norse: "Fenris wolf")


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 21, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> Baker, Pertwee, Tennant and Smith. No order.
> 
> Not McCoy. No.



Assuming you mean Tom Baker, he's the most overrated of the lot IMO. He always looked as though he might smell a bit too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 22, 2011)

Pertwee and mcoy. The gentleman and the eccentric


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 22, 2011)

Pertwee, Baker, Smith - in that order.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 22, 2011)

This should be in the FAQ.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 22, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You are wrong, though.


Wrong regarding the new doctors or wrong overall?

I'll definitely take Smith over that twat Tennant, but he's not better than many of the old Doctors


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 22, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Wrong regarding the new doctors or wrong overall?
> 
> I'll definitely take Smith over that twat Tennant, but he's not better than many of the old Doctors


Wrong on the basis of

(a) Matt Smith is the best Doctor of the new run
(b) Maybe third overall after Troughton and McCoy

(a) isn't true; he's the worst Doctor of the new run, and you are wrong about Tennant, sorry. (b) isn't true either - Smith is better than McCoy I'd say and probably better than Troughton but the three of them are way not the top three Doctors.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> what do you mean by painted himself into quite a few corners? the series hasn't even finished yet!


Yes, but the way he gets himself out of the corners is the problem: he knocks through into the next room, then out the back of the house, builds an extension, then paints himself into a corner there that didn't exist before.

I say "he".  I mean "under his stewardship".


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 22, 2011)

And the over complex story arcs distract from the individual stories - which are often too short to develop decent plot and characters as it is. The stories sometimes seem to end up as an inconsequntial back drop to the ongoing stroy arc and emotional relationships of the characters. But its sci-fi - not fucking corrie.
Like I say - scary monsters/baddie, nasty plan, clever resolution - on to the next one - win.


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 22, 2011)

Corax said:


> Spoiler: Spoiler for a question about the above
> 
> 
> 
> Was the 'Bad Wolf' thing ever resolved? I never remember these things. Just struck by the similarity to _Fenrir, _or *Fenrisúlfr* (Old Norse: "Fenris wolf")



Me not know. Sorry


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 22, 2011)

tennant wins by virtue of having really amazing proper actor skills. and being the only good looking doctor ever.


----------



## strung out (Sep 22, 2011)

he's not as good looking in real life. matt smith however, is even better looking apparently


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> he's not as good looking in real life. matt smith however, is even better looking apparently


says you.  i was big fan of tennant before he did doctor who. it's not classic handsomeness, but - oh my!
matt smith is about twelve.


----------



## belboid (Sep 22, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> Me not know. Sorry


it was, wasn't it?


Spoiler: Spoiler for a the answer to a question about the above. Possibly



It was just Rose, all her getting jiggy with the Tardis & making Jack immortal


----------



## Corax (Sep 22, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> tennant wins by virtue of having really amazing proper actor skills.


To be honest though, Tennant's Who was Casanova in a blue box.


----------



## Corax (Sep 22, 2011)

Spooky sound! http://www.badwolf.org.uk/

The disappointment in whoever made that site is tangible. All that dedication to cataloguing clues and theories, and then it's left unfinished with just an 'update' added in italics that may as well say 'oh for fuck's sake, really?'


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 23, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> tennant wins by virtue of having really amazing proper actor skills. and being the only good looking doctor ever.


Crap acting skills, tie his arms and he'd be nowhere, a second rate bluffer


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2011)

I rated his Hamlet tbf


----------



## strung out (Sep 23, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> But its sci-fi - not fucking corrie.


but sci-fi has been practising ongoing storylines, major series long plot arcs and emotional development of characters for ages now. you look at all the best stuff from the last 15 years (DS9, B5, BSG, Buffy etc) and all of it has had stories that take years and years of storytelling with the odd stand-alone episode chucked in for good measure. going back even further, you had Blakes 7 which was telling the same story for 3 or 4 years and even Doctor Who back in the old days had entire seasons dedicated to a single story arc with the Key to Time, Trial of a Timelord etc. even stories like The War Games and The Dalek's Master Plan lasted for 10 or 12 weeks.

you might not like the way steven tells the story, and that's fine, but to make out that this is some new fangled over-complicated way of telling a story that he's introduced is a bit unfair to him.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 23, 2011)

strung out said:


> major series long plot arcs


Stop it.  They're plot lines.


----------



## strung out (Sep 23, 2011)

only using the same terminology as KT!


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 23, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I rated his Hamlet tbf


I know it got fantastic reviews.
Although I've never seen him in the theatre I can see why he might be better there than on the screen.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2011)

Theres a beeb version- Patrick Stewart plays the usurper


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 23, 2011)

strung out said:


> only using the same terminology as KT!


OK.  That's very polite of you.  I like politeness.  You get a pardon.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 23, 2011)

strung out said:


> but sci-fi has been practising ongoing storylines, major series long plot arcs and emotional development of characters for ages now. you look at all the best stuff from the last 15 years (DS9, B5, BSG, Buffy etc) and all of it has had stories that take years and years of storytelling with the odd stand-alone episode chucked in for good measure. going back even further, you had Blakes 7 which was telling the same story for 3 or 4 years and even Doctor Who back in the old days had entire seasons dedicated to a single story arc with the Key to Time, Trial of a Timelord etc. even stories like The War Games and The Dalek's Master Plan lasted for 10 or 12 weeks.
> 
> you might not like the way steven tells the story, and that's fine, but to make out that this is some new fangled over-complicated way of telling a story that he's introduced is a bit unfair to him.



 I dont think its 'new fangled' it is over complicated and clearly trying to fit to the format of the shows you mention - but its still bollocks. The buffy story arcs/lines etc were bollocks as well - but didn't interfere too much with the episodes
With Dr Who they get in the way of whats good about the show.
The priority should be about delivering a good story which grips the audience - not trying to make the whole series into some kind of melodramatic space opera where the indivudal episodes are sublimated to serve some over egged, pompous and frankly ridiculous  'grand narrative'. And Moffat is far more guilty of this then RTD was.

Shame cos the three principle actors are very good.


----------



## belboid (Sep 23, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> I know it got fantastic reviews.
> Although I've never seen him in the theatre I can see why he might be better there than on the screen.


And it was, I must say, the finest bit of Shakespeare I've ever seen. he really is a good actor, arguably better in Blackpool than anything he's done on telly since, tho I'm quite enjoying him in Life & fate on the radio at the moment too


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 23, 2011)

He was pretty good as Craig Murray as well I thought.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 23, 2011)

Corax said:


> To be honest though, Tennant's Who was Casanova in a blue box.



bit unfair - Cassanova required very little of him.



redsquirrel said:


> Crap acting skills, tie his arms and he'd be nowhere, a second rate bluffer



ooh, no - really?  what about the final two-parter with cribbins? not much gesticulation going on there.



DotCommunist said:


> I rated his Hamlet tbf



and there's that.



redsquirrel said:


> I know it got fantastic reviews.
> Although I've never seen him in the theatre I can see why he might be better there than on the screen.



Check out United, or Single Father, or...



belboid said:


> And it was, I must say, the finest bit of Shakespeare I've ever seen. he really is a good actor, arguably better in Blackpool than anything he's done on telly since, tho I'm quite enjoying him in Life & fate on the radio at the moment too



Blackpool! Which was excellent all round.


----------



## Corax (Sep 23, 2011)

I hope you steered clear of the kebab shops.  There's children in them apparently.

(there aren't, it's a crap piece of EDL bullshit)


----------



## Santino (Sep 23, 2011)

He was great in 'Taking Over the Asylum' many years ago.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2011)

Lets not forget Einstien and Eddington! that was well good


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 23, 2011)

Corax said:


> I hope you steered clear of the kebab shops. There's children in them apparently.
> 
> (there aren't, it's a crap piece of EDL bullshit)


eh? wrong thread?


----------



## strung out (Sep 23, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> The priority should be about delivering a good story which grips the audience


well with more people watching the show now than at almost any other time since the show came back, i reckon you could say they're achieving that


----------



## Corax (Sep 23, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> eh? wrong thread?


Nope. Re Blackpool in the post above mine.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 23, 2011)

ah yes, been a while since the missus made me and I watched it


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 23, 2011)

strung out said:


> well with more people watching the show now than at almost any other time since the show came back, i reckon you could say they're achieving that



 I thought ratings were down.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 23, 2011)

Overnight ratings are down, overall ratings (sky plus timeshift, bbc iplayer) are up.


----------



## strung out (Sep 24, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> I thought ratings were down.


basically, what pursued by bears said. overnights are slightly down because more people are choosing to watch on catch ups etc. overall, the ratings are higher than the first three years and about the same as last year.


----------



## Corax (Sep 24, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> ah yes, been a while since the missus made me and I watched it


Watch what?  Now you have _me_ confused.  

I was referring to this.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 24, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> I thought ratings were down.



Not really. http://tomspilsbury.moonfruit.com/


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 24, 2011)

Like this?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 24, 2011)

I watched three episodes of the deadly assassin today (at my daughters request).
Man it's boring.


----------



## Corax (Sep 24, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I watched three episodes of the deadly assassin today (at my daughters request).
> Man it's boring.


What idiot named it 'The Deadly Assassin'?    What other varieties of assassin are there?  Are there slightly irksome assassins?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 24, 2011)

Corax said:


> What idiot named it 'The Deadly Assassin'? What other varieties of assassin are there? Are there slightly irksome assassins?



Actually I have just realized it wasn't the deadly assassin, it was the invasion of time.

There are shit assassins probably. The assassin, isn't quite such a catchy title.


----------



## strung out (Sep 24, 2011)

invasion of time starts off well but it's rubbish by the final few episodes


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 24, 2011)

One of the worst ever, that was. Abysmal.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 24, 2011)

Compare the cyberconversion with _The Lion Sleeps Tonight _to that shoddy nonsense. The love of a baby conquers the process? Pah.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Sep 24, 2011)

What happened to poor Shona and the security guard? Blasted out of space time for all eternity.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 24, 2011)

Thats twice that a fathers love has saved the day now. Wagwan.

Also, I know they were failcybermen on low power but they never used to be that fanny did they


----------



## killer b (Sep 24, 2011)

it was a filler episode (as most of this series seems to have been tbf), but enjoyable enough, i thought.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 24, 2011)

Faith last week (better episode, mind), love this week... nice to see the cybermat!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 24, 2011)

Most of this series? Tonight's rubbish followed three superb episodes in a row.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 24, 2011)

Not a patch on Earthshock.


----------



## gnoriac (Sep 24, 2011)

Cheesiest episode ever (maybe).


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 24, 2011)

they well shoehorned in the river/silence stuff at the end. Like 'and now, back to the main feature'


----------



## strung out (Sep 24, 2011)

bit soppy, but decent enough. i had a good chuckle at the rage of everyone on here when corden broke out of his cyber-conditioning after hearing his kid cry


----------



## strung out (Sep 24, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> What happened to poor Shona and the security guard? Blasted out of space time for all eternity.


converted into dodgy cybermen


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 24, 2011)

gnoriac said:


> Cheesiest episode ever (maybe).



Naw, that honour goes to the Titanic in space one. Dreadful stuff.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 24, 2011)

strung out said:


> bit soppy, but decent enough. i had a good chuckle at the rage of everyone on here when corden broke out of his cyber-conditioning after hearing his kid cry


 
I'd assumed that due to being underpowered and basically shit cybermen the conditioning machine was weak as hell, so you could have resisted it by maintaining a lob on or thinking about how much you love chocolate cake.

Bit of a cyberwaste imho- I want Cybermen rampant laying waste and being naughty, not getting owned.

at least with the daleks they re-powered them in shiny new colours


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 24, 2011)

About time the cybermen were rebooted. Back in the day, they used to get a new look almost every appearance


----------



## strung out (Sep 24, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> they well shoehorned in the river/silence stuff at the end. Like 'and now, back to the main feature'


looks like they wanted to get rid of all the doubt about whether it was definitely River in the space-suit or not. if it had been kept a 'mystery' you would have only had the usual whiners moaning about how obvious it all was.


----------



## strung out (Sep 24, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> About time the cybermen were rebooted. Back in the day, they used to get a new look almost every appearance


yeah, i'd like to see a cyberman redesign too. never been too keen on this one, particularly as they've just kept the design of the cybermen from an alternate universe. a cyberman redesign would cost money though, and i'm not sure a line in toys of redesigned cybermen would be as profitable as the redesigned daleks!


----------



## Ozric (Sep 25, 2011)

Most of the second part of the series was filler, some great and some not so great.
I can only hope they have saved the budget for the finale....which does look like its gonna be a good one.


----------



## Chz (Sep 25, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Not a patch on Earthshock.


 Was it meant to be the ship from Earthshock?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2011)

Chz said:


> Was it meant to be the ship from Earthshock?



What? The ship that exploded on the surface and wiped out almost every living thing on the planet? Hummm.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2011)

My god that was shite.
What a waste of cybermen, that we now know can be overpowered with 'love' jesus wept.
Shite in so so so many ways it hurts my brain to think about it. Even my daughter (4) said "I'm not scared of the cider men any more".
Then we get a trailer confirming everything everyone has speculated about the series. Yeah lets think of the most obvious plot we can, make it a secret, then do this 'massive' revieal with bombastic music even though everyone knows already because it's so freaking obvious.


----------



## gnoriac (Sep 25, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Even my daughter (4) said "I'm not scared of the cider men any more".


They sound like something out of Viz


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2011)

moffat has daddy issues


----------



## rekil (Sep 25, 2011)

Was that episode written by the baby?


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 25, 2011)

That was dire...


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 25, 2011)

the talking to babies thing was mildly entertaining when they did it the first time with Baby Pond, it's a bit crap using the same thing again in the same series.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 25, 2011)

I don't know, I'm now toying with calling my firstborn Stormageddon


----------



## fogbat (Sep 25, 2011)

Last night's episode was dire.

It was like they knew it was a turd, and decided to put the cherry on top by bringing James Corden back.

Was anyone else cheering when it looked like he'd been converted?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 25, 2011)

No. I have always liked and rooted for the Cyberment, and was fearful for their future with such rubbish material to work with.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> _すみません、私は、デイブのことを行うことができます。_



2001?


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 25, 2011)

Worst episode ever? No. Worst Matt Smith episode... probably. Had a couple of nice moments but the story was bobbins.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 25, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> 2001?


Yep, got carried away with SF references on the FTL Neutrino thread


----------



## maya (Sep 25, 2011)

"Not available to watch in your area"


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 25, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> moffat has daddy issues


Is this better/worse than RTD and his issues with religion and women?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2011)

maya said:


> "Not available to watch in your area"



recap to save you the bother:

The Doctor, having dumped Amy and Rory in the throes of guilt about how much he fucks peoples lives up travels alone to meet an old friend, the fat greasy shit james cordon. Hilariously he gets a job at a department store where a Cybermat turns up and people keep vanishing. Even more hilariously the older shop matron mistakes Cordon and the Doctor as a gay couple. She approves and is charmed by the young love as this is the BBC and not real life where she would likely have been horrified cos you know how some people are about gayness.

After some arsing around the cybermen try to turn Corden into a cyberman but he fights free of the control via the power of how much he loves his baby, unexplainedly blowing up all the cybermen in the process. Then everyone parts ways and all is well.

Then there is a shoehorned bit where we see Evil Eyepatch Woman and her Silence aliens kidnap River Song and put her in the spacesuit that we saw kill the doctor earlier in the season.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 25, 2011)

It was funny and entertaining,a nice little episode that doesn't take itself too seriously. This series so far has been the most enjoyable new who since series one.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 25, 2011)

ginger_syn said:


> It was funny and entertaining,a nice little episode that doesn't take itself too seriously. This series so far has been the most enjoyable new who since series one.


OMGZ, we can see posts from a parallel universe!!11!!!1! Call CERN!


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2011)

Yeah.  I don't count myself amongst the hardcore, but even for a casual viewer it's clearly been lacking in progression, continuity, coherence etc.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 25, 2011)

Been thinking that for weeks now.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 25, 2011)

the parallel universe thing not the lack of coherance.


----------



## strung out (Sep 25, 2011)

yeah, this series has been my favourite so far too. last night's story and the pirate episode were probably the weakest for me, but still enjoyable nonetheless.

there have been a few issues, and i wasn't convinced that rory and amy would get over the loss of their kid quite so easily, even though they know that she turns out basically alright in the end. also, the two episodes on each side of the season break lacked a bit of focus, but generally we've had some of the strongest stories since the show came back imo. looking back on some of russell's stories, i can't believe how much better it's got in fact.


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> i wasn't convinced that rory and amy would get over the loss of their kid quite so easily


That was explained in the last episode.  She got a modelling contract.


----------



## strung out (Sep 25, 2011)




----------



## Balbi (Sep 25, 2011)

After saturday there's two months and twenty five days until the next episode.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 25, 2011)

copliker said:


> Was that episode written by the baby?



Gareth Roberts

I was eating my dinner while watching so not a complete waste of time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2011)

xmas episodes are never that good though


----------



## strung out (Sep 25, 2011)

Balbi said:


> After saturday there's two months and twenty five days until the next episode.


huge gap after that though. next year's episodes won't be airing til fairly late in the year i think


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2011)

As long as we get a bit of Merlin to compensate I'll be happy.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 25, 2011)

Corax said:


> As long as we get a bit of Merlin to compensate I'll be happy.



Sick, sick, sick


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 25, 2011)

Merlin makes even the shittest Who look like [insert your preferred form of highbrow entertainment here]


----------



## Corax (Sep 25, 2011)

Merlin rocks.  As does Who, and Spooks.  Any one of those three and I'm happy.

But then, I like Torchwood too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2011)

Jon Hurt does some lame gigs


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 25, 2011)

That new one on BBC3 was better than expected.


----------



## binka (Sep 25, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> unexplainedly blowing up all the cybermen in the process.


it wasnt unexplained it's just the explanation was rubbish


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 25, 2011)

emotional-feedback-overload loop innit?

(with genetically hardwired responses thrown in for good measure)


----------



## Santino (Sep 25, 2011)

Everyone complaining needs to remember episodes about a big traffic jam with Ardal O'Hanlon as a cat.


----------



## binka (Sep 25, 2011)

if i was following it correctly then the cybermen were weak and shit because they were still in the process of recovering / recharging / whatever. why then were they expanding their numbers? surely the shrewd move would have been to have a couple of double hard full power cybermen and then expand their numbers rather than half a dozen crap ones?

anyway pretty crap episode but i still think the last 2 series have been the best since it came back, moffatt is better than rtd and matt smith is the best doctor. the only downside is too much river song hopefully we wont see her again after next week


----------



## strung out (Sep 25, 2011)

binka said:


> if i was following it correctly then the cybermen were weak and shit because they were still in the process of recovering / recharging / whatever. why then were they expanding their numbers? surely the shrewd move would have been to have a couple of double hard full power cybermen and then expand their numbers rather than half a dozen crap ones?
> 
> anyway pretty crap episode but i still think the last 2 series have been the best since it came back, moffatt is better than rtd and matt smith is the best doctor. the only downside is too much river song hopefully we wont see her again after next week


agree completely!


----------



## Cid (Sep 25, 2011)

Presumably converting people to cybermen is simply a matter of hooking them up to their machine and using power, whereas manufacturing cyberman gear requires access to rare metals and production gear that might have been damaged in the crash.


----------



## Augie March (Sep 25, 2011)

The episode It had it's weak points but a decent performance from Matt Smith made it all good and hell, even James Corden was all right. Although the two gay dads stuff wasn't even funny when Friends did it.

They've done a little prequel for next's week finale: http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/videos/p00kn2y6


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2011)

Shall I bother with this weeks episode?

For the first time ever my 11yr old daughter didn't want to watch it. That made me sad.
Take note Moffat.


----------



## Chz (Sep 26, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What? The ship that exploded on the surface and wiped out almost every living thing on the planet? Hummm.


Ah yes, you're right. This is Doctor Who where everything always makes perfect sense. I'd forgotten that somehow.  That said, they'd have probably stuck a reference to bloody Adric in there if they'd meant it to be that one.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 26, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Then we get a trailer confirming everything everyone has speculated about the series. Yeah lets think of the most obvious plot we can, make it a secret, then do this 'massive' revieal with bombastic music even though everyone knows already because it's so freaking obvious.


In Dr. Who Confidential, Moffat said "we've basically known River kills the Doctor ever since she confessed to killing "the best man she's ever known", so I'm not sure how much of a reveal it was ever intended to be.

He could be saying that _now,_ of course...


----------



## kabbes (Sep 26, 2011)

Some random stuff needs saying in response to things:



Santino said:


> Everyone complaining needs to remember episodes about a big traffic jam with Ardal O'Hanlon as a cat.



I liked that episode.



strung out said:


> basically, what pursued by bears said. overnights are slightly down because more people are choosing to watch on catch ups etc. overall, the ratings are higher than the first three years and about the same as last year.



Don't forget torrents, although they can hardly count in official figures.

And:

1) Tennant remains the best Doctor by a long way.  Smith is pretty good too, but he lacks menace.  The Doctor needs an underlying menace.

2) My favourite Who episode(s) ever was a two-parter -- The Satan Pit, where Tennant faced off The Great Tempter himself.

There, I have spoken truths.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 26, 2011)

That was fine until you saw the CGI Satan. Whenever you see the monster in Who, it's always disappointing - they build it up well with all sorts of little creepy plot bits of how it's psychically manipulating people etc and then, oh, CGI stroke rubber suit. It's worse the bigger and more awesome the monster is supposed to be. Torchwood did a similar but worse one along those lines.

They should also leave the damn Christian mythology alone.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 27, 2011)

Tennants Doctor was about as menacing a wet tissue.


----------



## Santino (Sep 27, 2011)

The name of the shop in that last episode was 'Sanderson & Grainger'. Which is an anagram of 'Dr is a ganger', plus some other letters left over.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Sep 27, 2011)

Watched it last night...it was shit. Really shit. Ah well


----------



## spirals (Sep 27, 2011)

I thought it was ok, not the best but far from the worst and I liked the Stormy stuff, Moffat does seem to have dad issues though.


----------



## strung out (Sep 27, 2011)

i think it was gareth roberts who wrote that episode, so not too sure how much input moffat would have had into the daddy stuff!


----------



## Corax (Sep 27, 2011)

Santino said:


> The name of the shop in that last episode was 'Sanderson & Grainger'. Which is an anagram of 'Dr is a ganger', plus some other letters left over.


Emma Watson to be the next companion. And her boyfriend to be played by some bloke I've never heard of whose last part was as someone called Sanderson.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 27, 2011)

Just talked to my friend who's never watched Doctor Who prior to _The Girl Who Waited, _and has barely heard of the show (being Dutch). She loved this episode. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 27, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think it was gareth roberts who wrote that episode, so not too sure how much input moffat would have had into the daddy stuff!



It's analagous to shoving a Bad Wolf reference in. All the writers would have been asked to crowbar something mawkish about dads into the plot.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2011)

It had better not turn out that the Doctor has a dad. That would mean all the loom stuff is bollocks. Not that internal consistency is Who's strong point but I like Lungbarrow.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2011)

Unless the dad turns out to be Benie Cribbins, I like him more than I like lungbarrow


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 27, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> It had better not turn out that the Doctor has a dad. That would mean all the loom stuff is bollocks. Not that internal consistency is Who's strong point but I like Lungbarrow.



Well, if everybody is right and extra regenerations are trivial then looms are definitely non-canonical.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 27, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Unless the dad turns out to be Benie Cribbins, I like him more than I like lungbarrow


that would make him Donna's uncle.

But yay - Cribbins! That bit in "turn left" where he got angry and upset about the immigrant families being taken to internment camps... brings a tear to my eye just remembering it, tbh. Vastly underrated actor.


----------



## Cid (Sep 27, 2011)

Oh yeah, the perfume Amy was advertising - petrichor, the smell after rain. Stone and the fluid in the veins of the Gods... hmm...


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 27, 2011)

Cid said:


> Oh yeah, the perfume Amy was advertising - petrichor, the smell after rain. Stone and the fluid in the veins of the Gods... hmm...


When else was this mentioned, this series?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 27, 2011)

Doctor's Wife - telepathic password.


----------



## strung out (Sep 27, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> When else was this mentioned, this series?


it was mentioned in The Doctor's Wife, but i can't remember the exact context


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 28, 2011)

Would someone less pissed than I am care to attempt a summary of what's gone on so far, and what the final is predictably going to bring?


----------



## strung out (Sep 28, 2011)

front cover of the radio times this week has got amy, rory and the doctor all wearing eyepatches...


----------



## kabbes (Sep 28, 2011)

Arr, they be space pirates.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 28, 2011)

shut up, Hitler


----------



## Balbi (Sep 28, 2011)

strung out said:


> it was mentioned in The Doctor's Wife, but i can't remember the exact context



Crimson. Eleven. Petrichor. Delight.


----------



## maya (Sep 28, 2011)

kabbes said:


> My favourite Who episode(s) ever was a two-parter -- The Satan Pit, where Tennant faced off The Great Tempter himself.


They should make a sequel, The Santa Pit-
where pint-sized sweatshop slave children forced to make N*ke trainers all day are rescued by the doctor following a hoedown with Evil Santa...


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 28, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Crimson. Eleven. Petrichor. Delight.



You got delight and petrichor the wrong way round. You have been eaten by an Ood.


----------



## Corax (Sep 29, 2011)

Turn to page 32.


----------



## Santino (Sep 29, 2011)

Prediction: In the finale the Doctor will toss away his screwdriver just like Luke throws away his lightsaber in Return of the Jedi, symbolically rejecting violence at the same time.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 29, 2011)

the recurring parental love motif suggested something to me. is it possible that time could be reset somehow, at the point where river was baby melody, demons run doesn't happen and rory and amy get their baby back?

not saying that time resetting isn't rubbish - but does it sort of make sense?


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2011)

I fucking hope that the recurring parental love motif is symoblic of a wider theme, even if it leads to another reset.  Because the alternative is just that it keeps falling back on appalingly sentimental tosh for no good reason!


----------



## Santino (Sep 29, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> the recurring parental love motif suggested something to me. is it possible that time could be reset somehow, at the point where river was baby melody, demons run doesn't happen and rory and amy get their baby back?
> 
> not saying that time resetting isn't rubbish - but does it sort of make sense?


Well within the bounds of possibility I'd say. And the Doctor would have to nobly sacrifice his life with River.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> front cover of the radio times this week has got amy, rory and the doctor all wearing eyepatches...


I'm guessing you know what the patches are for from the ending last week. It may of slipped your mind. Was the thing about always having 'believed in all of you' the answer to a question asked at the end of the god complex?


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 30, 2011)

I think it was a part of the stuff the doctor said to craig to get him to resist the cyber conversion, though i've only watched once so i could be wrong.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 30, 2011)

belboid said:


> I fucking hope that the recurring parental love motif is symoblic of a wider theme, even if it leads to another reset. Because the alternative is just that it keeps falling back on appalingly sentimental tosh for no good reason!


I think Moffat is just exploiting the fact that Dr. Who is one of the few shows parents might actually watch with their kids, and is trying to do his bit to fix Broken Britain. "C'mon guys, y'know? They're your kids, eh? That's powerful shit right there, yeah?"


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 1, 2011)

ginger_syn said:


> I think it was a part of the stuff the doctor said to craig to get him to resist the cyber conversion, though i've only watched once so i could be wrong.


Yeah it was. They left what faith the doctor had unresolved.


----------



## Balbi (Oct 1, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/sep/30/doctor-who-tribute-brigadier-actor

Tribute to the Brig tonight


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 1, 2011)

I see the grauniad has changed its tune re ratings.



> The BBC will be hoping that Saturday's finale boosts the viewing figures for the main series, which so far has performed well. According to the consolidated overnight ratings, this series is averaging 7.6 million viewers an episode, up on last year's average of 7.3 million.


----------



## belboid (Oct 1, 2011)

great start


----------



## belboid (Oct 1, 2011)

a zugwang!


----------



## emanymton (Oct 1, 2011)

Could someone please tell me just WTF is going on!!


----------



## belboid (Oct 1, 2011)

the doctors about to reset the universe


----------



## Balbi (Oct 1, 2011)

Ah, it was the obvious.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

iDrive eh. Apple product placement on the beeb, outrages. I feel a stiff letter to points of view coming on


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

Nice Lethbridge Stewart reference there. RIP etc


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 1, 2011)

Soooo...
Kovarian went to an awful lot of trouble with River to stick her in an automated suit


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

She is quite unnecessarily evil and sadistic though. I mean, if they are just a religious order dedicating to ensuring the question is never asked then where is K's reason to be such a cunt about it? other than for dramatic tension and neccesary villainy


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 1, 2011)

It's been a convention of SF since 1995 or so that religious orders aren't very nice.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 1, 2011)

Babylon 5 had Brother Theo and his gang - they were good guys.

On the subject of B5, or rather its pilfering from Blakes 7, I noticed tonite's Death Chess.


----------



## magneze (Oct 1, 2011)

It was all so implausible. Even for a children's sci fi show about a time travelling alien.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 1, 2011)

Wow I missed it. No spoilers nomfsdnmfnzfglnd/bkjna /w u/


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 1, 2011)

is no one else fed up that for a finale it didn't really seem to be much of an ending?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 1, 2011)

Shi


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit


----------



## binka (Oct 1, 2011)

not great but not as terrible as previous finales. the ganger doctor thing was a but of a ruse i suppose, hopefully we've seen the last of river song as well


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 1, 2011)

binka said:


> hopefully we've seen the last of river song as well



I was hoping that but there's nothing I can read into this episode to indicate that she's off.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 1, 2011)

I have to expalin this to the kids tomorrow and am fuckin clueless as I have dozed off through most of this series

can anyone provide a succint summary of what it was all about ?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 1, 2011)

Mayb eI  I will do  a sundeay


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 1, 2011)

Doctor and ER bint fool universe and Silents using plucky Numskulls.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

Thats Moll Flanders to you


----------



## Dr Dolittle (Oct 1, 2011)

After watching that (I started getting bored after just ten minutes), I'm almost tempted to say I wish the doctor really had died, if that's the best they can do now.


----------



## AverageJoe (Oct 1, 2011)

Wut? I fucking loved it.

You are all dead inside. Boo you. Boooooooo Yoooooooo


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 1, 2011)

Okay, team, we need to go through all the plot holes and the bits marked "TODO: tie this up before end of season" and get them to have all work out somehow. Only, guys, the SFX budget is pretty low now, so we can't do a whole "RTD Spectacular". We don't even have enough for another alien, so re-use props, that should be okay - the Silence got a good reception, use them. Just make sure it's mostly all tied up. As good as you can manage.

Oh and make sure you sort out the eyepatch thing, that's been bugging me. No, I don't care how lame the explanation turns out to be.


----------



## AverageJoe (Oct 1, 2011)

No we dont!

Just enjoy it for what it is - a 6-7pm tv show. Its been amazingly written in a way that even if you arent a Who fan you could watch an episode in isolation and still get most of whats gone on (for those that arent fans and just happen upon it) or enjoy the episode on its own,  and also provided for the geeks that worry about cannonical stuff, previous doctors, previous travellers and friends, and still provided a story line that was "confusing" enough to have millions of dedicated websites that were set up about it creaming themselves, whilst the hardcore at gallifrey base dot com etc could analyse the hidden messages etc of it.

And still wrap the whole thing up in a fantastically overblown finale without giving anything away whilst introducing the characters on the way.

That there. That there is the best writing you will see on TV. Everyone who has bitched about this seems to have missed the fundamental point about New Who insofar that it is written like a film and then shown to you in 40 minute segments which you then have 7 days to digest and chat about for a week. Imagine something like Lord of the Rings, Star Wars or Avatar shown in the same way and then realise how clever the writing is for including and welcoming everyone to the show.

I'm not one to sit back and relax generally, but if ever there was a time to do it, its when Dr Who is on.

ps - my only question is - Who was Canton Everett Delaware the Third....present at the Dr's "death", but not in the last episode or even reffered too


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 1, 2011)

"Just enjoy it for what it is" has always meant "stop complaining about the shit bits".


----------



## rekil (Oct 1, 2011)

Bulletproof monsters only die when Amy shoots them. Shitty.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

Mind you, she looked pretty sexy with the black military style jacket and the dom screwface on.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 1, 2011)

I thought it was better than a lot of recent episodes.  I did like the implications of the Doctor saying things had got a bit noisy and wanting to get away from all that.  I'm hoping that means toning down a lot of the universal adulation stuff, the fame, the legends, and being more of a roaming mad man in a time machine.

I'm not keen on this mania for tidying up loose ends, though.  What's wrong with loose ends?  Why can't we have a bit of enigma?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Nice Lethbridge Stewart reference there. RIP etc


Is that how you spell it?  I always heard "left bridge".


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 1, 2011)

Well, I've not been a fan of the Grand Moff Steven since he took over the show, even less so of the current series, but I rather enjoyed this evening's ep. For some time I've been of the belief that, in regard to the conspiracy arc, he's been 'doing a Chris Carter' (i.e. making it up as he went along, in the fashion of the aforementioned X-Files boss), what with apparent clues spied by eagle-eyed fans being dismissed and shock-horror revelations being about as predictable as the colour of orange juice. Tonite, I think he made his intentions clear, there is to be no big reveal, no conclusion, ever, only the progression of an arc that will change constantly, and presumably, outlast him and the eleventh Doctor.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 1, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not keen on this mania for tidying up loose ends, though.  What's wrong with loose ends?  Why can't we have a bit of enigma?


This is what writing stories for serieses means these days.

1. Clear up _x_ things or details which were introduced for no reason at all in previous episodes.
2. Have some stuff happen which is a consequence of the plot for this episode.
3. Have _y_ things happen or details introduced for no reason at all. Somebody can work these out later. It makes it look like there's a running theme.

When the sum of _y_ exceeds the sum of _x_ at the end of the series, sum(y) - sum(x) events have to be explained, because otherwise you're putting too much strain on the writers next series and they'll sue.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 1, 2011)

Yup.  It's pish.  And it comes across like the flip chart of a bored committee at a training event.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 1, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Yup.  It's pish.  And it comes across like the flip chart of a bored committee at a training event.


Yes, it's so formulaic. It's the thing that annoys me the most about the modern Who. I can cope with the occasional badly-written episode or shit character or awful actor; this happens. But the substitution of "add random unexplained elements each time and then clean them up at the end so it looks like we knew what we were doing all along" for an actual, thought-out, series-length plot makes me cross.

I'd much rather that individual episodes just stood on their own and had no reference to any other episodes (apart from using the same characters) at all. This used to be one of Who's strong points.


----------



## AverageJoe (Oct 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Mind you, she looked pretty sexy with the black military style jacket and shouting "I'm DotComs mum" whilst riding me.



Indeed


----------



## AverageJoe (Oct 1, 2011)

And where was Canton Delaware the Third


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Is that how you spell it? I always heard "left bridge".


 
yeah. It is how it's spelt in the books


----------



## colacubes (Oct 2, 2011)

Utter wank.  That is all


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 2, 2011)

I thought it was good.



DotCommunist said:


> yeah. It is how it's spelt in the books


Really? 

I'd take Moffat's Who over RTD's any day. RTD didn't seem to know what sort of programme he was supposed to be making. It seemed at times he thought it was a comedy.  How else do you explain farting aliens in human skin suits and that dreadful aborbatron whatsit.  I shudder just thinking about it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> But the substitution of "add random unexplained elements each time and then clean them up at the end so it looks like we knew what we were doing all along" for an actual, thought-out, series-length plot makes me cross.


This series-length sub plot thing was OK when it _was_ a sub plot.  The Bad Wolf thing was never properly explained  (I know it was Rose shining the Tardis' vortex through her eyes.  I mean, why "Bad Wolf" as a message across time to herself?)  but that's OK; it didn't get in the way.  But this last series, it totally got in the way, so much so that the Kill Hitler episode was just garbled nonsense.  My kids have the DVDs of all the New Who.  I can't see them re-watching that one; it didn't make any sense as a story.


----------



## cybertect (Oct 2, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> ps - my only question is - Who was Canton Everett Delaware the Third....present at the Dr's "death", but not in the last episode or even reffered too



FBI agent from the Nixon/The Silence episode at the beginning of the half season earlier in the year.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2011)

AverageJoe said:


> ps - my only question is - Who was Canton Everett Delaware the Third....present at the Dr's "death", but not in the last episode or even reffered too


That was him on the ridge of the hill in tonight's episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 2, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I thought it was good.
> 
> Really?
> 
> I'd take Moffat's Who over RTD's any day. RTD didn't seem to know what sort of programme he was supposed to be making. It seemed at times he thought it was a comedy. How else do you explain farting aliens in human skin suits and that dreadful aborbatron whatsit. I shudder just thinking about it.


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigadier_Lethbridge-Stewart


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 2, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> This series-length sub plot thing was OK when it _was_ a sub plot.  The Bad Wolf thing was never properly explained  (I know it was Rose shining the Tardis' vortex through her eyes.  I mean, why "Bad Wolf" as a message across time to herself?)  but that's OK; it didn't get in the way.  But this last series, it totally got in the way, so much so that the Kill Hitler episode was just garbled nonsense.  My kids have the DVDs of all the New Who.  I can't see them re-watching that one; it didn't make any sense as a story.


I could believe that the "Bad Wolf" one had been planned from the beginning, but it seems to have started a script-writing craze for unexplained plot elements that - I'm completely sure - _aren't even explained in the minds of the writers at the time of writing_.

Oh, they might have a vague "there's something about the Daleks building a giant salmon at the end of time this series" idea, but it's just adding random bits and pieces ("hey what if we have a cat watching people from the ceiling here? just for a second - or maybe, the Doctor calls Rory 'Mr. Broccoli'") and then cleaning them up later.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 2, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigadier_Lethbridge-Stewart


Sorry, I thought you were agreeing with him.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I could believe that the "Bad Wolf" one had been planned from the beginning, but it seems to have started a script-writing craze for unexplained plot elements that - I'm completely sure - _aren't even explained in the minds of the writers at the time of writing_.
> 
> Oh, they might have a vague "there's something about the Daleks building a giant salmon at the end of time this series" idea, but it's just adding random bits and pieces ("hey what if we have a cat watching people from the ceiling here? just for a second - or maybe, the Doctor calls Rory 'Mr. Broccoli'") and then cleaning them up later.


Indeed.  And that would _still_ be fine if it was kept to a minimum, and didn't get in the way.  And if some things were just let go.   I don't need a tidy explanation for everything.  And certainly not one shoehorned into dialogue. (_Show, not tell_, is the motto writers seem to have forgotten).  But there's been a lot of mess this time, caused by the sub plot.  Any decent writer who found that would just cut the sub plot.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Sorry, I thought you were agreeing with him.


"Agreeing" with me?  I wasn't suggesting anything.  I was just surprised to learn the spelling.  I accepted Dottie was right without question.  He out-nerds me by miles.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 2, 2011)

I suspect the scottish accent would make more of the 'th' sound in that name whereas english characters on the show tend to sound more like saying 'leftbridge'

especially in the RP of earlier Who


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 2, 2011)

Really enjoyed the episode tonight, a good simple finale , a couple of loose ends that might or might not be tied up in the next series, and it left me smiling particularly the hungry skulls. Steven Moffat has done an excellent job with Who and I hope it continues.


----------



## AverageJoe (Oct 2, 2011)

cybertect said:


> FBI agent from the Nixon/The Silence episode at the beginning of the half season earlier in the year.



Sorry - I know who he is, but I meant that as he got an invite too, he must have been considered important enough to the Dr's plan originally, yet he wasnt mentioned at all in the finale.

iyswim


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I suspect the scottish accent would make more of the 'th' sound in that name whereas english characters on the show tend to sound more like saying 'leftbridge'
> 
> especially in the RP of earlier Who


That's probably it.

Pertwee was my Dr, really.  With his velvet smoking capes and Betsy the car.


----------



## badseed (Oct 2, 2011)

One thing I don't understand. was it the shooting or the killing of the Doctor that was a fixed event.



Spoiler: Spoilertastic



If he didn't die and time stopped, or all happened at once and didn't move on and started to unravel.
How was 'time' so easily fooled by the midget powered robot Doctor.
Shirley 'time' would not be changed by a visual trick


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2011)

badseed said:


> One thing I don't understand. was it the shooting or the killing of the Doctor that was a fixed event.


I know, I quite agree. But...


Spoiler: Spoilertastic Again



I think the point was that _the people in the Universe_ were supposed to think the Doctor was dead. So that they didn't rely on the Legendary Doctor to come and fix their problems. So now he's just an historic figure, not a possible saviour.

I'm not sure when the tipping point would come, though. You know: how many people does it take to know that the Doctor is still alive for everything to start going wrong again?


----------



## Augie March (Oct 2, 2011)

Why didn't he just tell River at the beach that he was a fake Doctor? And why did he have to whisper the plan in front of Rory and Amy?

Answer these questions and the plot holes will fall.


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 2, 2011)

I think we should do a poll to see who liked this episode. This thread is disproportionately dominated by moaners, I reckon.

I liked it anyway. It was all nicely bonkers and Churchill was far less annoying than last time.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm guessing the doctor had no intention of telling river but had to as she was being a dick. Whispering was probably a good idea as there were still silence about. They could of been all around them. The fixed point was the teselecta getting shot and the doctor appearing to die and always was. The doctor thought a run of the mill volcanic eruption at pompei was a fixed point. It turned out if set it off. I'm guessing the consequences of a fixed point are what is important. Like with adelaide brook and her over achieving spawn.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 2, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I think we should do a poll to see who liked this episode. This thread is disproportionately dominated by moaners, I reckon.
> 
> I liked it anyway. It was all nicely bonkers and Churchill was far less annoying than last time.


I liked it.  My moaning is about the series-long sub plotting, not the final episode per se.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 2, 2011)

The  fixed point was not the doctor dying it was river shooting what she thought was the doctor,time fractured because she misfired.  It was quite straight forward and easy to understand once you watch the episode.  as for telling river at the lake what was going on perhaps he thought the silence would be   monitoring the suits systems and would hear.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 2, 2011)

Despite the series being a heap of nonsense I really enjoyed the final, easy to see where the money went.


----------



## Augie March (Oct 2, 2011)

I've really enjoyed this series, there have been some fine stand alone episodes but the series arc has often boxed the writing into unecessary cul-de-sacs and the ending was just a bit too contrived and full of holes to work for me. I mean, he tricked time, how does that even work? Especially when River then spills the beans afterwards and tells Amy and Rory the truth anyway. What, is time not listening at that point? It's all a bit too wibbly-wobbly for my liking.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 2, 2011)

He didn't trick time. What happened always happened. It was always the Teselecta.


----------



## strung out (Oct 2, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Clearly the doctor which dies in the the opening episode is the flesh doctor, not the real one...


well clearly


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 3, 2011)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 3, 2011)

Why is no-one else concerned with the fact the Doctor's hair was much longer in this episode?! I know he'd been left to go all caveman in Churchill's Empire, but then he got all cleaned up, but left his hair long... 

The people demand answers


----------



## Balbi (Oct 3, 2011)

It was the Tesselecta, not the Doctor - remember they did make Rasputin green.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 3, 2011)

Hmm...

So at what point did the Tesselecta become the Doctor? In terms of the timeline, rather than the plotline, iyswim? Was Churchill's Doctor always the Tesselecta?

e2a: I still don't really understand it from a production POV. If there'd been a scene with two Doctors, where we needed something to tell them apart, then perhaps, but otherwise why bother? Unless Smith had just let his hair grow fro some reason (another show?) and got a bit precious about it.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

the only time we see the tesselecta doctor is from when we first see him sitting on the bonnet of the car in the USA to when he gets killed by river song and cremated. all other times we see him, it's the real doctor.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

of course even the tesselecta doctor is the real doctor in a way. it is him sitting in the brain, controlling it.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 3, 2011)

Excellent fun & I hope the promise of a more discreet Doctor is met. Loved the skulls.

Watched the confidential and they played River's story (in edited form, of course) in chronological fashion. Which helped fathom the ambitious story arc. Top drawer stuff from Moff and co & Matt Smith has turned out to be the greatest Doc yet.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 3, 2011)

The me sitting in my brain just gave up and swanned off to eat Skittles


----------



## Balbi (Oct 3, 2011)

This shot was ruined by papa smurf's head bellowing in the background, but certainly gives me hope about the new direction that's being taken with the show. Much like at the end of The Girl Who Waited with the last shot of the Doctor looking slightly darker and eviller than usual.

Back to the shadows  Vashta Nerada coming back?


----------



## Santino (Oct 3, 2011)

Of course, it's all set up for a couple of series time when the Silence have another go at killing him, and someone points out that travelling around in the same blue box as before and telling people he's called The Doctor isn't a very sophisticated way of hiding.


----------



## Corax (Oct 3, 2011)

More than anything else, I really hope the next series has less of a 'make it up as we go' feel.  This last one was the most disjointed yet.  Clues and hints and motifs are no bloody good unless there's some sort of coherence in the background, otherwise it just feels like they're taking the piss and in danger of performing a water-ski stunt over a dangerous marine creature.


----------



## magneze (Oct 3, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> He didn't trick time. What happened always happened. It was always the Teselecta.


Oh I see. That actually starts to make sense now.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

i haven't watched the episode again yet, and there were people talking over the first 10 minutes or so, but i really really enjoyed that. it tied most of the story up nicely, with a few little strands left open to go back to at some point if needed, but nothing big enough to leave you disappointed that they weren't resolved. there were enough surprises about the story, but nothing so complicated that it doesn't make sense.

on the season as a whole, i definitely thought there were some weaknesses, but overall it's been my favourite year of doctor who and in my opinion, the strongest we've had since it returned in 05, with the general standard of writing and acting so much better than it was during RTD's time at the helm (and that's not to do RTD down, i enjoyed it a lot when he was in charge, but moffat has taken it to another level, for my money)

*high points:*

the introduction of the silence as a new doctor who villain has been brilliant. imaginative, scary and potential for them to become a major recurring race of aliens in future series.
The Doctor's Wife was stunning. beautifully shot and gaiman didn't disappoint in what was one of my favourite episodes since the show returned.
the story arc really delivered for me, and though i've no idea how much was planned all the way back in Silence in the Library, it had the feel of something that had been planned for a while, and although it lost its focus a couple of times through the series, it was generally all worked through logically, with a couple of twists, red herrings and tied up at the end.
the series finale was really satisfying for me. finding out that it was the tesselecta who had been killed all along was great, and the flesh having nothing to do with it really pleased me after the know-it-alls had been banging on about how it was _obviously_ the ganger doctor who'd been killed all along (including my dad).
the end of The Almost People when ganger amy got turned into a pile of goo was a brilliant cliffhanger, and i thought the series break should have happened there personally.
*low points/weaknesses*


they dolloped on the mawkish sentimentality a bit too much for my liking, which i didn't think was particularly characteristic of moffat after some of the eerie episodes he'd written for russell. it culminated with the disgustingly soppy ending to Closing Time and there were one or two moments this series that had me cringing.
the pirates episode didn't really do it for me, though it was pretty popular with other people, so what do i know.
the series had a few structural problems and although the ongoing plot of river song/the doctor's death etc was well conceived the second half of the season didn't quite ring true for me, with a lot of the tension that had been built up at the end of the first half lost, as a number of stand alone episodes went off with no reference to the fact that amy and rory had just had their baby kidnapped. it was a slight shame really, as those stand-alones were mostly great, but didn't seem to quite fit into the ongoing story. i guess that was slightly to be expected after they had to split the series in two and shuffle the episode order a bit, none of which was originally planned.
the really annoying thing for me now, is that the next series won't be until next autumn now, with only a christmas special to keep us going. still, that seems to be the fault of external pressures and budget cuts than anything the makers can do about it. once the final ratings are in, this looks like it's going to be the second most popular season since the show returned (2008 is still miles ahead because of the huge ratings it got for the return of rose and davros), and the show is in pretty rude health, with audiences in the USA larger than ever.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

oh, and rory has been *brilliant* this year


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 3, 2011)

Probably should have seen the tesselecta thing coming tbh. As for the ultimate question, that was both very clever and very silly and as such I wholeheartedly approve. Made for a great closing scene I thought.

I am gonna have to moan about some more plot holes though:
-The tesselecta started regenerating when river shot it, what's the deal with that?
-Apparently the Doctor didn't actually whisper his name in River's ear, but in the Library episode she tells him his name, so how does she find that out?

Lots of other plot holes have been mentioned elsewhere. Overall the story arc for this series was unwieldy and could've been made a lot simpler whilst still keeping the interesting bits. Easy for me to say of course. Moffat is very good at creating and resolving multi-stranded plots but I think he may have attempted something too complex for any mere mortal to write convincingly. This is supposed to be a family-friendly show and I can't help thinking all this labyrinthine, self-referential stuff is gonna alienate a lot of kids and, frankly, a lot of adults as well.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

the tesselecta is a shape shifting robot that has tiny humans inside it. what makes you think it couldn't shoot light out of its arms and mimic a regeneration too? as to river finding out the doctor's name, it could have happened at any other time in his/her past or future. just because it hasn't been explained on screen yet, doesn't mean it's a plot hole. more river episodes to come for all we know.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Okay, team, we need to go through all the plot holes and the bits marked "TODO: tie this up before end of season" and get them to have all work out somehow. Only, guys, the SFX budget is pretty low now, so we can't do a whole "RTD Spectacular". We don't even have enough for another alien, so re-use props, that should be okay - the Silence got a good reception, use them. Just make sure it's mostly all tied up. As good as you can manage.
> 
> Oh and make sure you sort out the eyepatch thing, that's been bugging me. No, I don't care how lame the explanation turns out to be.


what a load of rubbish 

you really think that when they wrote the opening episode, they didn't have the silence/river storylines already planned out?


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I think we should do a poll to see who liked this episode. This thread is disproportionately dominated by moaners, I reckon.



i agree. this series has been incredibly popular.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 3, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> Probably should have seen the tesselecta thing coming tbh. As for the ultimate question, that was both very clever and very silly and as such I wholeheartedly approve. Made for a great closing scene I thought.
> 
> I am gonna have to moan about some more plot holes though:
> -The tesselecta started regenerating when river shot it, what's the deal with that?
> ...


The Tardis was in the Teselecta. The doctor could easily have made a few upgrades, linked it to the matrix or reversed the polarity of the neutron flow if the Teselecta didn't have that capability. He had foreknowledge and plenty of time to work something out. The Teselecta witnessed a regeneration and may of added a file for simulating it. The doctor lies and river lies. They could of been saying name with a wink and a nudge. Or she may learn it in a future adventure.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 3, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> -The tesselecta started regenerating when river shot it, what's the deal with that?



The Doctor, and the Tardis, were both in the Tessallecta?


----------



## Augie March (Oct 3, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> He didn't trick time. What happened always happened. It was always the Teselecta.



Then why did it have to be a fixed moment in time that could never be changed, when all it was a robot getting killed? And who exactly were they trying to trick with the whole ruse?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 3, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Then why did it have to be a fixed moment in time that could never be changed, when all it was a robot getting killed? And who exactly were they trying to trick with the whole ruse?



Perhaps the important thing is everyone thinking he's dead. Although given that he's a time traveller that doesn't really make a lot of difference, from a potential bad guy's point of view Tom Baker or Peter Davison could still show up and thwart them at any point in the history of the universe. Plenty of people have been thwarted by the doctor after April 22nd 2011 already...


----------



## Balbi (Oct 3, 2011)

Confidential show the river song story so far - it's quite, quite wonderful to see it in sequence.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 3, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Then why did it have to be a fixed moment in time that could never be changed, when all it was a robot getting killed? And who exactly were they trying to trick with the whole ruse?


Because people thought it was the doctor. Thats going to have consequences the consequences are whats important. River would of never been to jail which would of altered the doctors life upto that point drastically. Its like if all the 9/11 were right. Maybe it was all carried out by Dick Cheney and a hyper intelligent Mongoose from the pinwheel galaxy who abducted the victims and they are now living their lives on some kickass pleasur planet. Everyones been brainwashed to believe it was 19 hijackers. Millions of lives have been changed in a thousand ways due to what people believe happened. The consequences are the same. Whether the doctor is alive or dead after 22nd of April means shit.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Confidential show the river song story so far - it's quite, quite wonderful to see it in sequence.


i just watched that. bloody brilliant.

for anyone claiming that steven moffat just makes it up as he goes along, make sure you watch it. seeing the various hints, portents and predictions over the course of river song's story shows just how much planning went in to her story over the course of three years. alex kingston narrating river's story in the right order according to her is beautiful.


----------



## strung out (Oct 3, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> Because people thought it was the doctor. Thats going to have consequences the consequences are whats important. River would of never been to jail which would of altered the doctors life upto that point drastically. Its like if all the 9/11 were right. Maybe it was all carried out by Dick Cheney and a hyper intelligent Mongoose from the pinwheel galaxy who abducted the victims and they are now living their lives on some kickass pleasur planet. Everyones been brainwashed to believe it was 19 hijackers. Millions of lives have been changed in a thousand ways due to what people believe happened. The consequences are the same. Whether the doctor is alive or dead after 22nd of April means shit.


you explain it all so much better than i do


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2011)

strung out said:


> you explain it all so much better than i do


Maybe but it cost me my youth.


----------



## Chemical needs (Oct 4, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> I am gonna have to moan about some more plot holes though:
> -The tesselecta started regenerating when river shot it, what's the deal with that?
> -Apparently the Doctor didn't actually whisper his name in River's ear, but in the Library episode she tells him his name, so how does she find that out?...



River song is in a different time stream travelling in the opposite direction to Dr Who.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 4, 2011)

you know  i quite liked that in the end

i was really worried it  would  be  too much like  the power of loved saved him  but  they really  actually  did something which was about  intelligence and trickery  rather than deus ex machina


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 4, 2011)

there are still holes and flaws  but    i felt it really wasn't too bad.  and i did like how  it showed amy as still angry about   what happened


----------



## strung out (Oct 4, 2011)

Chemical needs said:


> River song is in a different time stream travelling in the opposite direction to Dr Who.


it's not quite the opposite direction. they've said that a few times for dramatic effect, but in reality there's a bit more jumping around and all kinds of things happen in the wrong order.

i think moffat said in doctor who confidential that it's mostly the opposite direction, but not completely


----------



## Santino (Oct 4, 2011)

In order to maintain continuity with Silence in the Library, we need to assume that she has met at least one or two of the Doctor's future incarnations, or she wouldn't have expected Tennant to recognise her. Perhaps he encountered her again between series (at an earlier part of her life).


----------



## strung out (Oct 4, 2011)

i can't remember which episode it was in, but i'm fairly sure it's ben implied that they've met once or twice off screen. i don't think it's anything that needs to be explained particularly. they're time travellers, this kind of stuff happens.


----------



## Santino (Oct 4, 2011)

I suppose even now some nerds somewhere are writing novels about all their other adventures.


----------



## strung out (Oct 4, 2011)

hopefully!

the nerds who wrote novels on doctor number 7 and ace back in the 90s for virgin books are the nerds who are writing the show now


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2011)

strung out said:


> i can't remember which episode it was in, but i'm fairly sure it's ben implied that they've met once or twice off screen. i don't think it's anything that needs to be explained particularly. they're time travellers, this kind of stuff happens.


Flesh and stone. Said they keep meeting in the wrong order. If may of been bullshitting mind. A bit nicer than saying ' I've met her once before and she died'.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 4, 2011)

strung out said:


> i can't remember which episode it was in, but i'm fairly sure it's ben implied that they've met once or twice off screen. i don't think it's anything that needs to be explained particularly. they're time travellers, this kind of stuff happens.


River says they have met in a few places that we have not seen on screen. Easter island for instance. She also said she had made a note of all his faces (though I suppose she could have just looked this up). I certainly hope there is more to their relationship than we have seen on screen because they have hardly had time to fall into a deep maddening love. I think it's a shame that they wasted the idea that she could regenerate and different Rivers could come in contact with different doctors at different periods.
I still don't get though how she would know that his first kiss would be her last kiss?


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> River says they have met in a few places that we have not seen on screen. Easter island for instance. She also said she had made a note of all his faces (though I suppose she could have just looked this up). I certainly hope there is more to their relationship than we have seen on screen because they have hardly had time to fall into a deep maddening love. I think it's a shame that they wasted the idea that she could regenerate and different Rivers could come in contact with different doctors at different periods.
> I still don't get though how she would know that his first kiss would be her last kiss?


I don't think it is. Future doctor who gave her the sonic must have given her is sonic. Also that would mean the kiss in let's kill Hitler was the doctors last which it wasn't. She's just a bit thick.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 4, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> I don't think it is. Future doctor who gave her the sonic must have given her is sonic. Also that would mean the kiss in let's kill Hitler was the doctors last which it wasn't. She's just a bit thick.



I don't get what you mean?
Why would that mean that the kiss in let's kill hitler was the doctors last?

And there may be not reason for River to know that the doctors first kiss was her last but it actually was. She went on to the library next time she saw him.


----------



## strung out (Oct 4, 2011)

there's a cool video here of some guy that's colourised a load of scenes from the first two doctor's stories using photoshop. certainly gives the clips a bit of a new feel!


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't get what you mean?
> Why would that mean that the kiss in let's kill hitler was the doctors last?
> 
> And there may be not reason for River to know that the doctors first kiss was her last but it actually was. She went on to the library next time she saw him.


Theres an offscreen(so far) visit where he gives her the sonic with the ghost thing in it. It wouldn't unless they were moving in reverse which they quite obviously aren't.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 4, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> Theres an offscreen(so far) visit where he gives her the sonic with the ghost thing in it. It wouldn't unless they were moving in reverse which they quite obviously aren't.



Why does that mean he kisses her again?

I don't think I am very clear on what you are posting here or trying to say actually.  For instance 'What' woudn't?

And yes they are all over the place, though it does annoyingly and boringly seem to be mostly in reverse. It's like the writers forgot that that didn' have to be the case.


----------



## Corax (Oct 4, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I still don't get though how she would know that his first kiss would be her last kiss?


They'd just mentioned that if the two of them touched then it would kill the timeline in the face or something, wasn't it just that?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 4, 2011)

Corax said:


> They'd just mentioned that if the two of them touched then it would kill the timeline in the face or something, wasn't it just that?



It better not be because thats just frickin' sci-fi stoopid.
A - They touched at loads of other points in time. What makes that one any more or less significant.
B - Two three or five doctors can happy interact, even shite like timecop makes more sense.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 4, 2011)

Don't forget that she has said that one birthday she had two doctors and at the end of the last episode the Doctor pretty much said he was breaking in/breaking her out every night...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 4, 2011)

If they are so freaking in love why don't they just go off together on a jaunt. The jailers know she is great at escaping on her own.

Crossing the streams and reversing the polarity don't make any sense here.
You need a Gordie to spell it out in laymans terms for it to fit in a script without it 'just being so'.
"essentially filling it up like a big balloon until it pop" etc.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 4, 2011)

Just watched it and I rather enjoyed it - maybe because I had read comments on here and was expecting it to be rubbish so lowered by expectations accordingly.

Overall I enjoyed the series but I would like some good old fashioned fighting bad guys, making me scared , making me laugh, great monsters, with little or no subtext episodes next series!!


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 5, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I still don't get though how she would know that his first kiss would be her last kiss?



because he had not kissed her before, which meant that for her they would not kiss again otherwise it would not have been the doctors first kiss with river


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 5, 2011)

ginger_syn said:


> because he had not kissed her before, which meant that for her they would not kiss again otherwise it would not have been the doctors first kiss with river


Eh? That doesn't answer the question, that just spells out what we have seen in the screen which raised my question.

Why does his first kiss with river have to be the last for her? It may have been true (or not, even we don't know) but there is no why that she could have known that. The Doctor could not even have told her because he didn't know where, from that point in time, she would go next.
Only the script writers knew / know.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 5, 2011)

What I mean is between the byzantium and the library the Doctor turns up give river his tenth doctor issue sonic screwdriver. He has a new suit or haircut or something (only watched the library the first time it was on) and they go off on some romantic trip. Seems to me he would  kiss her. Unless he did it all the afternoon after the library but it was implied this was a far future doctor. There was no mention of this reverse nonsense until the silence two parter. Its not even close to reverse. Mid series he meets baby river, prison river then 'Mels' in that order. The first two within minutes of each other. Maybe if just uses the i don't really know you line a lot to get out of sex and the dishes.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 5, 2011)

Corax said:


> They'd just mentioned that if the two of them touched then it would kill the timeline in the face or something, wasn't it just that?


I think you're talking about a different kiss.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 5, 2011)

Is the Doctor breaking her out of prison every night backwards?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 5, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> Is the Doctor breaking her out of prison every night backwards?


fnar


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 5, 2011)

i think i have that fan fic


----------



## kabbes (Oct 5, 2011)

I just watched it and I liked it.  I didn't see the teselector coming and I thought it was a neat way of the doctor doing what he does -- trickery and cunning over violence.

Definitely some plot holes in the series, so I can understand the frustration.  But I think there is enough doubt over those holes to give them the benefit.  Looking forward to the next series!


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

Having seen Confidential, I rewatched Silence in the Library out of interest to see how they handled River's first appearance.  Two things were very apparent.

1) Tennant is a _much_ better actor than Smith.
2) Surprisingly, Tate is also considerably a much more affecting performer than Gillan.  Tate's range is much wider.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2011)

Is it called the teselector because of how it changes appearence with a million squeeny squares? I don't get it. It's something to do with maths or geometry


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

It should probably be tessellector.  Tessellation in maths is basically like tiling -- fitting things together.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Oct 7, 2011)

It's rather irritating when you consider that the tessellector in LKH moves like it's made out of concrete, where as the Doctor-tessellector moves fluidly, talks exactly like the Doctor with no mistakes, and even regenerates! Funny that .


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 7, 2011)

The Gr root is tessares, meaning four. For some reason, bubbles of antiquity were happy to pronounce this as tettares when they felt like it, hence tetrahedra and tetrarchies being cognate with tessellation. The point is that the wossit is made of tiny squares.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> It's rather irritating when you consider that the tessellector in LKH moves like it's made out of concrete, where as the Doctor-tessellector moves fluidly, talks exactly like the Doctor with no mistakes, and even regenerates! Funny that .


That's because the Doctor is awesome.

I don't mean that in the SoCal sense either.  He is awesome.  He inspires awe.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Oct 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> That's because the Doctor is awesome.
> 
> I don't mean that in the SoCal sense either. He is awesome. He inspires awe.



True... but then again it wasn't the Doctor was it?! 

I mean, in the grand scheme of things it's a plot point I'm pretty happy to overlook, but the more you think about it the more it seems weird that the tessellector basically became a clone that moves in the exact way the original does.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

Let's say that the Doctor upgraded it.  He upgrades things.  He's quite good at it.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Oct 7, 2011)

This was my eventual line of reasoning too!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Having seen Confidential, I rewatched Silence in the Library out of interest to see how they handled River's first appearance. Two things were very apparent.
> 
> 1) Tennant is a _much_ better actor than Smith.
> 2) Surprisingly, Tate is also considerably a much more affecting performer than Gillan. Tate's range is much wider.



1) Hmm, maybe. But tbh Tennant's Shakespearean (sure enough, he ended up doing Hamlet straight after who) posturing in the darker moments of the show grated a little when crammed in alongside the usual Doctor Who playful good humour. Smith's generally light-hearted portrayal is a nice counterpoint to the increasingly dark plotlines IMO.

2) Yes, definitely. She was also, despite being a very attractive woman, not written as mere cypher and eye candy but as a genuine foil for the doctor, the role Rory eventually stepped up to.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

I guess that I think the Shakespearean element is exactly what is needed to stop the Doctor just becoming a clown.  He's playful and apparently light-hearted, but under it is menace, darkness and something dangerous.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2011)

Tennant bestrode the stage long before he was doctor who and had also done TV stuff like cassanova etc. Matt Smith is a year my junior and as such hasn't had the time or experience that tennant had to develop as an Act-or.

He went to my school you know


----------



## strung out (Oct 7, 2011)

I still prefer Matt Smith. Even though David Tennant sent my brother a Christmas card. My brother knows David Tennant ya know


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

The fact that he doesn't have the experience is a _reason_ why he isn't as good but that doesn't help me, the viewer, at all.  Tennant was better.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

Matt Smith is good, mind.  I think he's my second favourite.


----------



## strung out (Oct 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Matt Smith is good, mind.  I think he's my second favourite.


Do you have a real life connection to either of them? If not, me and dot don't wanna know


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 7, 2011)

i liked christopher eccleston


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

@ strung out

Incidentally, I noticed something else from Silence in the Library that I didn't know what to make of until I just had an epiphany in the shower.

Alex Kingston as River Song was considerably better than she was in the later, Matt Smith episodes.

I think the significance of that is that Tennant is so much better that he gives those around him a lot more to work with. Kingston was genuinely emotionally affecting in that double-episode, in a way that she never is again in the last two series.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2011)

Lets not all list the doctors we like AGAIN


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> @ strung out
> 
> Incidentally, I noticed something else from Silence in the Library that I didn't know what to make of until I just had an epiphany in the shower.
> 
> ...


 
I often have epiphanies while thinking about Alex Kingston when I am in the shower


----------



## belboid (Oct 7, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> He went to my school you know


really?  Why have you not ever mentioned that before??!!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 7, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Lets not all list the doctors we like AGAIN


Quincy, 'Bones' McCoy, that one from casualty ...


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> Do you have a real life connection to either of them? If not, me and dot don't wanna know



That did actually make me LOL.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 7, 2011)

Right, last episode.  One thing I liked was the implication that the Doctor had spent about 200 years between saying goodbye to Cordon and going to Silenceo lake.  Because, as I recall from the first episode of the series, the Doctor that died was about 200 years older than the one that didn't.

Very nice understated touch.


----------



## strung out (Oct 7, 2011)

The doctor always lies about his age though. He could have spent anything from a couple of days to a few hundred years between dropping off Rory and Amy and going to the lake. There's an article somewhere detailing the doctor's wildly changing age.


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 7, 2011)

I generally assume there's a lot of downtime between some episodes, to allow for the Further Adventures or whatever they're called, audiobooks etc. Tenth Doctor had a similar extended jaunt on his own before his demise.


----------



## Santino (Oct 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> The doctor always lies about his age though. He could have spent anything from a couple of days to a few hundred years between dropping off Rory and Amy and going to the lake. There's an article somewhere detailing the doctor's wildly changing age.


He seemed to have a lot of memories of adventures with River though. Easter Island, Jim the Fish etc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2011)

Well he is busting her out of jail nightly for spitroasts with tennant so clearly there is loads of history


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 7, 2011)

don't cross the streams


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 7, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Well he is busting her out of jail nightly for spitroasts with tennant so clearly there is loads of history



When the Blinovitch limitation effect comes into play it makes strangulation sex look positively vanilla


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> @ strung out
> 
> Incidentally, I noticed something else from Silence in the Library that I didn't know what to make of until I just had an epiphany in the shower.
> 
> ...


Well, that was also a well-written (double) episode that had far more for her to act with. River Song was actually an independent character, with goals, motivations and a reason to be around apart from to bounce around the Doctor grinning "enigmatically" and saying "spoilers!". Basically she wasn't just a plot device.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 7, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> When the Blinovitch limitation effect comes into play it makes strangulation sex look positively vanilla



having a time ram.  it's like temporal wolfbagging


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 7, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I generally assume there's a lot of downtime between some episodes, to allow for the Further Adventures or whatever they're called, audiobooks etc. Tenth Doctor had a similar extended jaunt on his own before his demise.


Not that long mind. In the voyage of the Damned Tennant was 903 and smith was 909 in the impossible astronaut. Mind you probably makes it up as he goes along. Maybe the Doctor thought that if he made the difference 200 years then the slower members of the Tardis crew would catch on a little quicker.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 9, 2011)

I rewatched that last episode and something still bothers me. The silence allowed themselves to be captured and allowed their eyedrives to be used against them so that they could hang around for the doctor to turn up. Why? The doctor had made clear his intention to fix time and die. So why chase him?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 9, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> I rewatched that last episode and something still bothers me. The silence allowed themselves to be captured and allowed their eyedrives to be used against them so that they could hang around for the doctor to turn up. Why? The doctor had made clear his intention to fix time and die. So why chase him?


Rule #1: The Dr Lies

So the Silence obviously didn't trust him to just show up and snuff it


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 9, 2011)

So what were they going to do? Just kill him?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 10, 2011)

I think so, yes. There was at least one at the lake watching to make sure things went to plan and if it failed maybe it could have tried the electrocution thing they do.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 10, 2011)

That would leave them trapped in an alternate dying reality. Unless thats their plan.


----------



## Santino (Oct 10, 2011)

Maybe the reason the question must never be answered is because the answer is 'He's the main character in a long-running TV series, of which we are all a part, and therefore not real.'


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 10, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> That would leave them trapped in an alternate dying reality. Unless thats their plan.


That's what happened when he wasn't _seen_ to die


----------



## Pingu (Oct 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Maybe the reason the question must never be answered is because the answer is 'He's the main character in a long-running TV series, of which we are all a part, and therefore not real.'



tbh if Marvin or a bloke with two heads etc etc turn up shouting "42" things are going to get ugly

mind you that has an improbablilty factor of 560 billion to one ... and falling


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 11, 2011)

Is the question "Do you know where your towel is?"


----------



## Pingu (Oct 11, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> Is the question "Do you know where your towel is?"



the Dr is probably a hoopy frood so I would be surprised if he was unable to answer that in the afirmative


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 11, 2011)

Why does every contribution about the doctor and river immediately sound filthy?
(I particularly liked the one about him breaking her in every night fnar fnar )


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> @ strung out
> 
> Incidentally, I noticed something else from Silence in the Library that I didn't know what to make of until I just had an epiphany in the shower.
> 
> ...



True, she's just gung ho bonkers later on.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 11, 2011)

Pingu said:


> tbh if Marvin, a bloke with two heads etc etc turn up shouting "42" things are going to get ugly
> 
> mind you that has an improbablilty factor of 560 billion to one ... and falling



Zaphod.
Marvin is a robot.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 11, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Zaphod.
> Marvin is a robot.



Marvin 

(needs a sad emoticon)


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 11, 2011)

I met the chap who made some of the TARDIS sounds effects last night


----------



## kabbes (Oct 11, 2011)

What did he have to say for himself?  Other than, "Waaah-wah, waaaaaaah-wah, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah-wah".


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I met the chap who made some of the TARDIS sounds effects last night


 
Heavy smoker?


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 11, 2011)

Actually it was Dick Mills who made the epic cloister bell effect and did music for Castrovalva (I think). Proper old cockney geezer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuYbL0P5LAI


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> What did he have to say for himself? Other than, "Waaah-wah, waaaaaaah-wah, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah-wah".



i think you mean vwarp vwarp


----------



## Pingu (Oct 11, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Zaphod.
> Marvin is a robot.



was going to list them all but cba so just did marvin ( an android with the brain the size of a planet) and zaphod (inventor of the pan galactic garglebalster)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 11, 2011)

Pingu said:


> was going to list them all but cba so just did marvin ( an android with the brain the size of a planet) and zaphod (inventor of the pan galactic garglebalster)



The way you wrote it it sounded like "marvin, a chap with two heads"
You should have put "Marvin and a chap with two heads"
I see what you are getting at now.


----------



## Pingu (Oct 11, 2011)

i have edited to make it less ... well less


----------



## weber (Oct 26, 2011)

What actually bothered me of the season 6 finale was the fact of the Teselecta being "the Doctor" in the lake. What kind of trick is that? I could accept it if they would have shown us when the Teselecta replaced the Doctor, because if it was since he picked up Amy and Rory, it drank wine, it walked normally, it acted completely as the Doctor, and I don't think a machine could do that. If the Doctor was driving it, fine, but the machine seemed so imperfect at the beginning... And even when the Doctor had 200 years before he went to lake Silencio, the Teselecta guys probably didn't have _that_ amount of time to improve their ship. 

Another thing: why time kept running once the Docselecta and River kissed? Didn't _time_ know it was a _fake_ Doctor? It's because the Doc masters time? I still don't understand this part of the story 

BTW, hello! I'm new around here. English is not my native language, just don't pay attention to any mistake and correct it if necessary :3


----------



## Santino (Oct 26, 2011)

The drinking wine was actually a clue. The real Doctor couldn't stomach wine. Or vice versa. I forget.


----------



## Hassan I Sabha (Oct 27, 2011)

Slitghtly off the topic, but on topic, can anyone see Amy? Found the Dr and Rory....


----------



## etrigan (Oct 27, 2011)

I've never seen it before. It looks really interesting.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 27, 2011)

weber said:


> What actually bothered me of the season 6 finale was the fact of the Teselecta being "the Doctor" in the lake. What kind of trick is that? I could accept it if they would have shown us when the Teselecta replaced the Doctor, because if it was since he picked up Amy and Rory, it drank wine, it walked normally, it acted completely as the Doctor, and I don't think a machine could do that. If the Doctor was driving it, fine, but the machine seemed so imperfect at the beginning... And even when the Doctor had 200 years before he went to lake Silencio, the Teselecta guys probably didn't have _that_ amount of time to improve their ship.
> 
> Another thing: why time kept running once the Docselecta and River kissed? Didn't _time_ know it was a _fake_ Doctor? It's because the Doc masters time? I still don't understand this part of the story
> 
> BTW, hello! I'm new around here. English is not my native language, just don't pay attention to any mistake and correct it if necessary :3


The lass shots the robot. This created the illusion of the aliens death. That illusion is pretty important to the universe. People act different because they think the alienxs dead. Consequences. Quite possibly including the shooting itself. Robot doesn't get shot so the robot and the lass become the centre of a plot device. Robot and lass kiss plot device fixed - alien pilot incidental. Ya dig?


----------



## weber (Oct 28, 2011)

CNT36 said:


> The lass shots the robot. This created the illusion of the aliens death. That illusion is pretty important to the universe. People act different because they think the alienxs dead. Consequences. Quite possibly including the shooting itself. Robot doesn't get shot so the robot and the lass become the centre of a plot device. Robot and lass kiss plot device fixed - alien pilot incidental. Ya dig?


Then we assume it wasn't the Doctor the first time, but the Teselecta... So the Doctor planned everything to be like that? And the Teselecta, controlled by him, changed the hair and everything when time stopped... Mmmm.... Okay! I like this! 

Thanks!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 28, 2011)

I think actually you're all being a bit forgetful.

he asked the telesecta to help after river had stopped time, ie kiss real dr, time stops time collaspes all occurs at once dr runs about down corridors etc meets teselecta asks for their help they provide who-1 after the snog to restart time he teleports into who-1 at the point the time streams rush in to correct themselves and who-1 is left to be shot...

simples...


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 28, 2011)

No he related his encounter with the Teselecta in a flashback. It happened before he went to the Lake and everything bolloxed up.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 12, 2011)

Christmas episode preview:






http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57266000/jpg/_57266258_043-1.jpg

So the nest person who tells me class Who was better will be laughed at.


----------



## strung out (Dec 12, 2011)

it's not better, it's just different. classic who is fantastic, but it's very much of its time and hasn't aged very well in some cases (i don't expect a lot of new Who to either tbh).

the episodes being found is brilliant news though, by all accounts an awful lot of the Doctor Who fraternity was out last night to see them being screened. i'd heard about this a week or two ago but couldn't tell anyone


----------



## 8den (Jan 25, 2012)




----------

