# CS gas question - urgent!!



## stuff_it (Jan 31, 2011)

http://www.eco-action.org/dod/no7/cs_gas.html

Has anyone ever tried to use the sodium metabisulphate (sold as Campden tablets used in home brewing) with water method mentioned here?


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## Boycey (Feb 1, 2011)

wiki seems to agree:

"CS contamination can be removed by washing with an alkaline solution of water and 5% sodium bisulfite."

it has references so should be legit.


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## stuff_it (Feb 1, 2011)

Ty - dont worry, I havent been gassed or owt!! 

Anyone got on-the-ground confirmation of either of these working?


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## WouldBe (Feb 1, 2011)

No confirmation of that but if you stand facing into the wind and keep your eyes open it clears really quick.


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## stuff_it (Feb 1, 2011)

Well, yes. Is ok now anyway. Ty


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 1, 2011)

Be warned: If you do wash off with a sodium metabisulfite solution, do your best not to inhale the fumes the sulfite olution will give off. They're not toxic, but they are irritant.


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## dylanredefined (Feb 1, 2011)

Water and fresh air will do it.As long as you can get away from the gas if your fit you should be fine in a few minutes time.OK those minutes will probably be pretty horrible.
Stuff dries on the skin so next time you wash your face it can feel like the stuff is working again.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 1, 2011)

Had plenty of CS doses - don't rub your face whatever you do! Stand with eyes open towards any breeze - which has already been mentioned.


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## john x (Feb 2, 2011)

And get rid of any clothing you may have, that has been contaminated like scarves etc. as the smell hangs around for months!

john x


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## Urbanblues (Feb 3, 2011)

How would an asthmatic stand up to a dose of tear gas?


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## Pickman's model (Feb 3, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> How would an asthmatic stand up to a dose of tear gas?


 
badly?


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## Urbanblues (Feb 4, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> badly?


 
So, a gasmask'll come in handy then?


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## Boycey (Feb 4, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> So, a gasmask'll come in handy then?


 
this: http://www.b2b-trade.net/shops/product/Scan-Twin-Half-Mask-Respirator-A1-Refills.html

+ eye protection rather than an ancient army surplus gas mask... unless you can get a modern one for a reasonable cost.


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## WouldBe (Feb 4, 2011)

john x said:


> And get rid of any clothing you may have, that has been contaminated like scarves etc. as the smell hangs around for months!
> 
> john x


 
Alternatively just wash them.


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## likesfish (Feb 4, 2011)

lots of water get out of the gas don't rub your face.
 wash clothing throughly.
  don't leave your gopping muddy throughly gassed ta clothing and gear in the drying room of a nurses home so that 6 hours later anyone entering gets a free dose of CS gas as one poster has.
  re chemcials and cs gas pm fuchs66 he works for the UN on chemcial warfare control so is the resident expert on nasty chemicals


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> How would an asthmatic stand up to a dose of tear gas?


 
As poorly as they would to exposure to a sulphite solution, although a terminal attack would be more likely from CS, given the degree of respiratory irritation it is designed to cause.
It also needs to be borne in mind that CS has *persistent* respiratory irritation effects that can last days or even weeks, even for healthy inhalers.


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> So, a gasmask'll come in handy then?


 
Only if the cartridge is fresh.


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## likesfish (Feb 4, 2011)

dodgy russian and ww2 best avoided have asbestos amongst other things 
http://www.armynnavy.com/catalog/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/2178 £42 should offer some protection

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/s10-gas-mask-...545179984&po=&ps=63&clkid=6855508129681193603

so new filters are available you would need to get an S10 that fits they come in various sizes best try on on easily avialbe at surplus and fetish shops!
  mind you wearing said military gasmask would make you a target for snatch squads and or snipers if overseas


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 4, 2011)

WouldBe said:


> No confirmation of that but if you stand facing into the wind and keep your eyes open it clears really quick.


 
This, if you do wash it then mild alkaline or just water does the trick, one thing though only use cold water, warm water opens your pores up and thats not good. I've never used any liquids to decontaminate CS and I've had enough of it on me, an airing and tears (if in the eyes tends to work well).

Oh regarding the question about gasmask for an asthmatic, I would advise not fucking around with such kit if you dont know what youre doing plus breathing through a filter can be hard work there's a fair amount of resistance which I cant imagine is good for an asthmatic especially in a stress situation.


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## Dimitris (Feb 4, 2011)

Some info on CS gas and what you can do about it also here:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/340541-Safety-precautions-at-demos


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## likesfish (Feb 4, 2011)

fuchs is right S10s are meant to be worn by fit squaddies and after an hour or so your completely fucked.
 if your asthmatic a resperator would probably do as much damage as the CS gas you get tunnel vision and make a nice target for the police.
 you need to get the sodding thing on in 9 seconds or less or you've just created your own personal cs gas chamber
  if your asthmatic its a case of standing on the sidelines with a note from matron and the half time oranges


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 5, 2011)

Further to what I mentioned earlier respirators/gas masks are, like any other technical equipment, meant to be serviced regularly, there are some delicate valves inside them and if youre buying off EBay or similair youre asking for trouble. Dont mess with stuff like this especially with respiratory problems youre asking for a whole load of pain.


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> fuchs is right S10s are meant to be worn by fit squaddies and after an hour or so your completely fucked.
> if your asthmatic a resperator would probably do as much damage as the CS gas you get tunnel vision and make a nice target for the police.
> you need to get the sodding thing on in 9 seconds or less or you've just created your own personal cs gas chamber
> if your asthmatic its a case of standing on the sidelines with a note from matron and the half time oranges


 
So if CS was brought regularly into use here, all the police would have to wear heavy gas masks that restrict vision and wear you out?


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## PeterTCA (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> So if CS was brought regularly into use here, all the police would have to wear heavy gas masks that restrict vision and wear you out?


 
And if there's lots of dust, mud, paint flying about it restricts your vision even more


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> So if CS was brought regularly into use here, all the police would have to wear heavy gas masks that restrict vision and wear you out?


 
Define a "heavy gasmask" and explain how it differs from a light gasmask and I might be able to help you out there


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> So if CS was brought regularly into use here, all the police would have to wear heavy gas masks that restrict vision and wear you out?


 
Yup.


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 6, 2011)

Fuchs66 said:


> Define a "heavy gasmask" and explain how it differs from a light gasmask and I might be able to help you out there


 
Mind you, it's not really the *weight* of the gas mask that's an issue.


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mind you, it's not really the *weight* of the gas mask that's an issue.


 
I know I just have no idea what a "heavy gasmask" is


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

Nor do i. Surely plod would use the standard British Army S10?


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

They use the civilianised version of the S10 I believe but its basically the same


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

What effort is needed to breathe through something like this?


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> What effort is needed to breathe through something like this?


 
Something like what? An S10? Well normally sat down relaxed its not so bad, but when youre doing something strenuous or are under stress then you notice the difference.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> What effort is needed to breathe through something like this?


 
If plod had to run around in ressies, they'd drop like flies


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## likesfish (Feb 6, 2011)

when I was really fit did and 8 miler with milan kit and resperators on fealt like I was going to  die lost several pints of   sweat and did'nt really do much more that day except whine did'nt help that it was meant to be in nbc suits with resperators carried not worn!


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> If plod had to run around in ressies, they'd drop like flies


 
The plod recently seen in riot gear looked like they were not really used to the basic kit.


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## likesfish (Feb 6, 2011)

a resperator is a bit like trying to beathe with a hand losely held overyou face fine until you start doing anything remotely strenuious like taking part in a riot.
 coppers have only recently started having fitness tests NBC pt sessions would kill them nearly killed me to fair. "twice round my nerve gas resistant body go"


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> The plod recently seen in riot gear looked like they were not really used to the basic kit.


 
Looking at their fitness on the last EDO demo last October, they'd be fucked in ressies.

Are you thinking what i'm thinking?


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> a resperator is a bit like trying to beathe with a hand losely held overyou face fine until you start doing anything remotely strenuious like taking part in a riot.
> coppers have only recently started having fitness tests NBC pt sessions would kill them nearly killed me to fair. "twice round my nerve gas resistant body go"


 
The joys of being a CBRN (nu talk for NBC) instructor

Fuchs66 (CBRN Instructor and sadist)


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Looking at their fitness on the last EDO demo last October, they'd be fucked in ressies.
> 
> Are you thinking what i'm thinking?


 
Hey that was one of the reasons for chemical warfare, degradation of the enemy by forcing him into protective gear.


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Looking at their fitness on the last EDO demo last October, they'd be fucked in ressies.
> 
> Are you thinking what i'm thinking?


 
Yes!


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

How do the Greeks handle gas? The plod there have the heat to deal with as well as all the kit?


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

The Greeks invented chemical warfare so they should be able to handle it quite well by now


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

Is the Greek plod's success not due to the low population? I'm stabbing in the dark here?


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Is the Greek plod's success not due to the low population? I'm stabbing in the dark here?


 
Probably more to do with their willingness and capability to go in hard, when compared with UK cops.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Is the Greek plod's success not due to the low population? I'm stabbing in the dark here?


 
CS dispersal - keep your distance. Very difficult in current UK protest situations, especially kettles!


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

Emergency respirator btw is to piss on a cloth and hold that over your mouth and nose, works apparently but luckily never had to try it myself


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

So many possible theatres are well populated, narrow streets, high buildings. You loose off CS, you gas everyone. You enrage the population, then you find you are knackered due to kit and lack of fitness....


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

Fuchs66 said:


> Emergency respirator btw is to piss on a cloth and hold that over your mouth and nose, works apparently but luckily never had to try it myself


 
I think if the UK plod were loosing off CS then I would have no trouble pissing myself. Might be hard breathing through the crotch of my jeans.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> So many possible theatres are well populated, narrow streets, high buildings. You loose off CS, you gas everyone. You enrage the population, then you find you are knackered due to kit and lack of fitness....


 
A few coughs & tears? Or kettled for 5 hours?


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I think if the UK plod were loosing off CS then I would have no trouble pissing myself. Might be hard breathing through the crotch of my jeans.


 
CS isnt a big problem if youre fit, if you have respiratory problems or are very old/young then its another story. Its definately a character building experience


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

Fuchs66 said:


> Its definately a character building experience



Oh yes!


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

Fuchs66 said:


> CS isnt a big problem if youre fit, if you have respiratory problems or are very old/young then its another story. Its definately a character building experience


 
I have only smelt it when as a doh brain 18 yr old I let some off in a confined space that I was in...


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## DrRingDing (Feb 6, 2011)

I think you lot ought to stop being soft.

The main thing I've found is get stuck in early, get exposed to it whilst you're in a strong position. 

The more you're gassed during the day the less it has an effect IME. Especially good if you're on  a several day riot as it becomes easier to deal with.

Don't worry is the main thing. You can easily panic when first hit with tear gas. Don't. Stop, breath get your bearings. If you have water, rinse your face (some activist will say you should, my experience says otherwise).

In Greece you get people wandering around with what looks like dried Milk of Magnesia slopped all over their faces, it's something call Maalox.

The Italians were big on lemons.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I have only smelt it when as a doh brain 18 yr old I let some off in a confined space that I was in...



Was that a pellet?


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

That it was designed to fuck you up bothered me.


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Was that a pellet?


 
A spray...


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I think you lot ought to stop being soft.



Eh?


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## DrRingDing (Feb 6, 2011)

I personally go for a water soaked bandanna to breath through and a pair of swimming goggles. With a bottle of water to rinse when things get a bit much.


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Eh?


 
Don't worry and steam in I think they mean.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Eh?


 
Yea, ignore I'm having a bad weekend.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> A spray...


 
Pellets would be good for kettle crackin'


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Oh yes!


 
If you want a real  experience you should try a whiff of Hydrogen Cyanide, excruciatingly painful chest cramps and fucked for hours. When it comes to riot control agents Clark and Adamsite are much worse than CS, and for long lasting effects (10 weeks of bronchitis) phosgene is the winner, blisters from lewisite are much more painful than from sulphur mustard.

Fuchs66 (the voice of painful experience)


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

No thanks


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

its a learning curve but all of the above (plus a couple more) I've been exposed to and experienced the symptoms, hmmm probably a claim to fame in certain circles


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Looking at their fitness on the last EDO demo last October, they'd be fucked in ressies.
> 
> Are you thinking what i'm thinking?


 
Sneaking up behind them, lobbing a smoke bomb and screaming "gas gas gas!!" ?


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2011)

Only to take photos of the look on their faces


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Only to take photos of the look on their faces


 
And the puddles they're standing in!


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> And the puddles they're standing in!


 
As tempting as it is I'll keep my skills to myself.


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

I always wondered how plod would face unlit bottles of accelerant being lobbed at em for a while.


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## dylanredefined (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I always wondered how plod would face unlit bottles of accelerant being lobbed at em for a while.


 
  Probably break out the baton rounds.


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

_Unlit_ has a huge fear attached....


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

dylanredefined said:


> Probably break out the baton rounds.


 
Not in mainland UK


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

I think they would go for gas first...


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I think they would go for gas first...


 
Oh I have to say it

CS is not a gas its a solid aerosol, anyone with an idea about respiratory protection should be thinking now


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## dylanredefined (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> _Unlit_ has a huge fear attached....


 
 Well If someone had thrown a bottle of petrol at me in a riot I'd be expecting someone to bring the flames pretty soon.
  Thought the coppers were allowed baton rounds just have never used them in a riot yet.


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

dylanredefined said:


> Well If someone had thrown a bottle of petrol at me in a riot I'd be expecting someone to bring the flames pretty soon.
> Though the coppers were allowed baton rounds just have never used them in a riot yet.


 
That's the issue. You get a molly lobbed at you, you avoid it, get the extinguishers out, retreat, whathaveyou. You get loads of unlit bottles of accelerant lobbed at you, you smell the increasing smell, you get fear.


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## dylanredefined (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> That's the issue. You get a molly lobbed at you, you avoid it, get the extinguishers out, retreat, whathaveyou. You get loads of unlit bottles of accelerant lobbed at you, you smell the increasing smell, you get fear.


 
  Guess the smell of petrol will hide the smell of piss .


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## TopCat (Feb 6, 2011)

dylanredefined said:


> Guess the smell of petrol will hide the smell of piss .


 
Your police boss will be more reluctant to call a retreat without flames. As you stand there getting soaked. Fear as I said.


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## dylanredefined (Feb 6, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Your police boss will be more reluctant to call a retreat without flames. As you stand there getting soaked. Fear as I said.


 
  And what happens when people get frightened?Imho anyone getting anywhere near that shield wall would get beaten severely.With coppers scared of being set on fire being seen as justification.And anyone found with a lighter is seen as a potential cop killer by the daily mail.


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## LLETSA (Feb 6, 2011)

dylanredefined said:


> And what happens when people get frightened?Imho anyone getting anywhere near that shield wall would get beaten severely.With coppers scared of being set on fire being seen as justification.And anyone found with a lighter is seen as a potential cop killer by the daily mail.




It seems that Topcat likes to encourage people to walk straight into police beatings and certain arrest. Wonder why?


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 6, 2011)

Wonders if theres a market for courses in CS protection for activists


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## DrRingDing (Feb 7, 2011)

Fuchs66 said:


> Wonders if theres a market for courses in CS protection for activists


 
Oh dont, they have existed and are full of shite. My mate went on one. He had NEVER faced CS but started lecturing me (I've been done more times than you can poke a shitty stick at)..


--OOhh but you must not use water, because X who had been to Palestine said so.
-X said you must put your clothes in a plastic bags or you'll be gassed again. I questioned this and the retort well she's been to Palestine.
-....and my personal fave, you'll be gassed again in the shower afterwards. 

Man up and go learn for yourselves.

FFS.


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 7, 2011)

Heh sounds shite, believe me any course I ran would include some very practical training too  *evil cackle*


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## likesfish (Feb 7, 2011)

to be fair a cs gas cloud in palestine least of your worries
 I quote an idf soldier " i hate cs gas makes it harder to see targets"
  idf never really got the hang of plastic bullets making them rifle size sort of defeats the object


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## TopCat (Feb 7, 2011)

dylanredefined said:


> And what happens when people get frightened?Imho anyone getting anywhere near that shield wall would get beaten severely.With coppers scared of being set on fire being seen as justification.And anyone found with a lighter is seen as a potential cop killer by the daily mail.


 
I'm not suggesting it? This is a hypothesis.


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## dylanredefined (Feb 7, 2011)

Fuchs66 said:


> Heh sounds shite, believe me any course I ran would include some very practical training too  *evil cackle*



 I can see it now a very smug Fuchs66 in the latest in cbrn suits in a chamber full of cs gas addresing his students/victims "As you can see your improvised protection is useless.I will now let you out and when you have recovered there is a display of masks that do work for you to purchase all at special prices today"


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## Fuchs66 (Feb 8, 2011)

Heh, damn good idea, any volunteers want to test their home-made protection?


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## freedom or die (Jul 20, 2011)

hello,

i know this is an old thread, last post was in February 2011.

But i think i would like to add some information from my experience participating in demos in Malaysia (which always have CS gas whenever a demo goes against the govt).


Pack light, ie. bring only the stuffs necessary and those stuffs have to be as versatile as possible.

Plain water, you need this to rehydrate urself and others in need, wash off your face when gassed.

Isotonic drinks. Here, the most popular is 100plus. It relieves you when gassed, haven't tried me self put some people swear by it. I'd recommend plain drinking water as you dont wash off your face with sweet drinks.

Salt. Put it in under your tongue (don't just swallow it) when gassed. It will relieve you in 20s-40s and gets better in time (not to 100%, but it gives you sanity at those desperate time so you could run and save ur ass from getting arrested and keep on protesting).

Toothpaste. Put some under your eyes when you see the police about to shoot the gas (before people run in havoc, otherwise you wont want to apply toothpaste near your eyes while running, it's a hazard itself). I prefer salt, easier to use, bring and share. Salts are cheaper too and you don't need much, just a pinch each time.

Small towel. Make sure it's long enough you could tie it around your head to cover you nose and mouth. Wet it, preferably with acidic water like orange juice. It will reduce gas intake by breathing, really helps a lot.

Orange juice (any acidic juice), to wet the towel above. A small bottle would be suffice.

My choice is


Plain drinking water
Towel
Salt

keep it simple and light. Two 1.5 littre bottle of plain water for me, less for others maybe, minimum is one. It's not only for you but also for other people.


that's it... power to the people!


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 21, 2011)

The UK police don't use CS gas. They use CS spray. Not the same thing, It's very localised and won't affect a whole crowd of people in the open air. It's a liquid that soaks into a targeted person's clothes. Loads of people have this misconception that the police use CS gas.


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 21, 2011)

It comes out of a spray can like a visible thin jet of liquid.


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 21, 2011)

Actually the best thing to do if you've been sprayed with CS spray is to get nekkid and stay in the open air. HEALTH AND EFFICIENCY!


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2011)

That's pepper spray - it's not the same as CS, it's dissolved in a liquid rather than being particles that are carried by liquid (or dispersed by some other means).


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## DrRingDing (Jul 21, 2011)




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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 21, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That's pepper spray - it's not the same as CS, it's dissolved in a liquid rather than being particles that are carried by liquid (or dispersed by some other means).


When I was involved in stuff like the local community police consultative panel they always emphasised that it was CS spray.  I know summat about all this (because there were and still are concerns about its use). I never heard it called pepper spray once.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2011)

They do use CS at times but pepper spray is the standard these days as far as I'm aware - it's "safer".


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 21, 2011)

@ Fridge
As in oleoresin capsicum? I must admit I'm talking from what I know from Lambeth cpcg stuff although I haven't read much of their recent pdfs that closely.


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 21, 2011)

I suspect my advice to strip off and stay in open air still applies though


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## audiotech (Jul 21, 2011)

The cunts waited until I couldn't hold by breath any longer and when I went to breathe they sprayed it close-up right into my face. I don't remember much after that. The really annoying thing is I was in my home at the time and was no threat.


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## dylanredefined (Jul 23, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> @ Fridge
> As in oleoresin capsicum? I must admit I'm talking from what I know from Lambeth cpcg stuff although I haven't read much of their recent pdfs that closely.


 
 Yeah that's the stuff really not much diffrent in its effect.Pepper spray or C.S spray will both make you wish they hadn't used it on you.


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## stuff_it (Jul 23, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> The UK police don't use CS gas. They use CS spray. Not the same thing, It's very localised and won't affect a whole crowd of people in the open air. It's a liquid that soaks into a targeted person's clothes. Loads of people have this misconception that the police use CS gas.


 
Look at the date...I wasn't asking for the UK


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