# Drought in Europe



## Flavour (Jun 16, 2022)

While the Paris Agreement talks about limiting global warming to 1.5° above pre-industrial levels (already a fantasy, of course), parts of Europe are experiencing temperatures as much as 4 degrees above normal this year, and the accompanying drought is terrifying. 

It hasn't rained almost _at all_ for several months in a large area of the continent. 

Spain, France, Italy and even Belgium are all severely affected, and I can't see any way we avoid water rationing.

Where I live is particularly badly affected, and many rivers that are feed the Po have run completely dry.

This is an emergency today, and stopping the sale of petrol cars by 2035 is nowhere near radical enough a policy to combat this.

We need to stop burning fossil fuels completely, right now, and figure out how to reduce atmospheric CO2.





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						2022 European Drought - IFAB International Foundation
					






					www.ifabfoundation.org
				












						France and Spain swelter as Cyclone Yakecan wreaks havoc in South America
					

Analysis: Another week of extremes with peaks pushing 40C in Spain and a rare subtropical cyclone in Uruguay and Brazil




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Europe faces a future of extreme droughts
					

Mitigation and adaptation measures are going to be crucial for future farming on the continent




					www.theguardian.com
				












						France’s unprecedented drought shows climate change is ‘spiralling out of control’
					

As global warming accelerates, the spectre of drought haunts France’s once verdant farmland. Even now, before the start of summer, 15 administrative départements have had to restrict water use while…




					www.france24.com
				












						Belgian farmers struggle as drought and rising costs hit
					

An unusually dry spring has meant crop yields are so far much lower this year. #EuropeNews




					www.euronews.com


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## PTK (Jun 16, 2022)

Flavour said:


> While the Paris Agreement talks about limiting global warming to 1.5° above pre-industrial levels (already a fantasy, of course), parts of Europe are experiencing temperatures as much as 4 degrees above normal this year, and the accompanying drought is terrifying.
> 
> It hasn't rained almost _at all_ for several months in a large area of the continent.
> 
> ...


This is very worrying.

If we stop emitting all greenhouse gases today, temperatures will continue to rise for decades. We need to find ways of sucking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, but that is such an immense task I am confident that we can do.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2022)

PTK said:


> We need to find ways of sucking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, but that is such an immense task I am confident that we can do.


i wish i could share your confidence


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## PTK (Jun 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i wish i could share your confidence


I missed out a "not". I am NOT confident that we will be able to suck out significant amounts of greenhouse gases from the atmosphere.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2022)

PTK said:


> I missed out a "not". I am NOT confident that we will be able to suck out significant amounts of greenhouse gases from the atmosphere.


oh. in which case i share your confidence.


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## Signal 11 (Jun 16, 2022)

PTK said:


> This is very worrying.
> 
> If we stop emitting all greenhouse gases today, temperatures will continue to rise for decades. We need to find ways of sucking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, but that is such an immense task I am confident that we can do.



No, it would keep warming for a few decades if the concentration was kept constant, but with zero emissions the concentration would fall and the warming would stop.









						Explainer: Will global warming ‘stop’ as soon as net-zero emissions are reached? - Carbon Brief
					

Warming is likely to more or less stop once net-zero emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) is reached, meaning humans have the power to choose their climate future.




					www.carbonbrief.org


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## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2022)

Signal 11 said:


> No, it would keep warming for a few decades if the concentration was kept constant, but with zero emissions the concentration would fall and the warming would stop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hopefully.


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## farmerbarleymow (Jun 16, 2022)

If they build those massive dams to seal in the North Sea the salt in it would eventually settle to the bottom* and we'd have a giant reservoir to use.  Problem solved.

* probably


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## Flavour (Jun 16, 2022)

you're all laughing about it now but come back to this in a few months when harvests have failed and the price of lots of goods the UK imports from mainland Europe (e.g. wine, oranges, pasta, lots of other fruit and veg) has shot up -- someone will blame it on Brexit but it won't be that.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2022)

Flavour said:


> you're all laughing about it now but come back to this in a few months when harvests have failed and the price of lots of goods the UK imports from mainland Europe (e.g. wine, oranges, pasta, lots of other fruit and veg) has shot up -- someone will blame it on Brexit but it won't be that.


do you remember this? Disastrous season means UK shoppers could pay 50% more for pasta


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## farmerbarleymow (Jun 16, 2022)

Flavour said:


> you're all laughing about it now but come back to this in a few months when harvests have failed and the price of lots of goods the UK imports from mainland Europe (e.g. wine, oranges, pasta, lots of other fruit and veg) has shot up -- someone will blame it on Brexit but it won't be that.


We'll be fine - we have turnips.

You can never go wrong when you have a turnip


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## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2022)

farmerbarleymow said:


> We'll be fine - we have turnips.
> 
> You can never go wrong when you have a turnip


i have always admired your optimism


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## stavros (Jun 16, 2022)

PTK said:


> I missed out a "not". I am NOT confident that we will be able to suck out significant amounts of greenhouse gases from the atmosphere.


Whether we end up being able to or not, and in time or not, it still makes sense to have contingency plans in case we don't. That would be, erm , conservative.


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## Flavour (Jun 17, 2022)

Areas of France are banning outdoor events cos of the heatwave

The Po is so low you can walk across the riverbed


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## PTK (Jun 17, 2022)

Signal 11 said:


> No, it would keep warming for a few decades if the concentration was kept constant, but with zero emissions the concentration would fall and the warming would stop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Moreover, temperatures are expected to remain steady rather than dropping for a few centuries after emissions reach zero, meaning that the climate change that has already occurred will be difficult to reverse in the absence of large-scale net negative emissions"

according to the document by Carbon Brief that you posted.

The document also states that
“Melting glaciers and ice sheets and rising sea levels all occur slowly and lag behind surface temperature warming. A zero-emissions world would still result in rising sea levels for many centuries to come, with some estimates suggesting that at least 80cm of additional sea level rise is “locked in”.”

So, the effects we are experiencing now would not be mitigated for centuries if we cease all emissions of greenhouse gases now.

This is in accord with the analysis by the Royal Society, which states that, if emissions of CO2 stopped altogether

“Surface temperatures would stay elevated for at least a thousand years, implying a long-term commitment to a warmer planet due to past and current emissions”

“The current CO2-induced warming of Earth is therefore essentially irreversible on human timescales”.

20. If emissions of greenhouse gases were stopped, would the climate return to the conditions of 200 years ago? | Royal Society


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## PTK (Jun 17, 2022)

PTK said:


> "Moreover, temperatures are expected to remain steady rather than dropping for a few centuries after emissions reach zero, meaning that the climate change that has already occurred will be difficult to reverse in the absence of large-scale net negative emissions"
> 
> according to the document by Carbon Brief that you posted.
> 
> ...


I agree that I was wrong. Global average temperatures would not continue to rise, if we had zero greenhouse gas emissions tomorrow. However, global average temperatures would not fall for centuries.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2022)

PTK said:


> I agree that I was wrong. Global average temperatures would not continue to rise, if we had zero greenhouse gas emissions tomorrow. However, global average temperatures would not fall for centuries.


by we do you mean no industrial emissions or emissions from human activity - do you exclude emissions from melting permafrost and coal mines?


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## PTK (Jun 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> by we do you mean no industrial emissions or emissions from human activity - do you exclude emissions from melting permafrost and coal mines?


If humans stopped causing the emission of greenhouse gasess by economic activity.


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## weltweit (Jun 17, 2022)

I wonder if drought and high temperatures across Europe will focus minds? 

Something has to prompt action. 

Unfortunately the Ukraine war seems to have stolen all the press coverage from climate change.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2022)

PTK said:


> If humans stopped causing the emission of greenhouse gasess by economic activity.


Don't see how that'll stop the methane bubbling out of coalmines or from melting permafrost or from the Arctic waters.


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## spring-peeper (Jun 17, 2022)

PTK said:


> If humans stopped causing the emission of greenhouse gasess by economic activity.




imo, it is too late to do anything.


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## Signal 11 (Jun 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't see how that'll stop the methane bubbling out of coalmines or from melting permafrost or from the Arctic waters.


Currently those are tiny compared to emissions from burning fossil fuels. If we stopped right now we wouldn't need to worry about them.

Permafrost and the like are long term worst case issues. The real problems we have now are bad enough that we need to take drastic action.


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## Signal 11 (Jun 17, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> imo, it is too late to do anything.


It doesn't work like that. The longer we go on increasing the CO2 level, the worse it will get. However late it has been left, it's still better to do what's needed than leave it even longer.


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## Flavour (Jun 17, 2022)

Signal 11 said:


> It doesn't work like that. The longer we go on increasing the CO2 level, the worse it will get. However late it has been left, it's still better to do what's needed than leave it even longer.


As bad as 3 degrees of warming would be for the world, it is _still preferable _to 4 degrees of warming, as Andreas Malm said


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i wish i could share your confidence



Me too.
I reckon it’s already too late.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

Signal 11 said:


> It doesn't work like that. The longer we go on increasing the CO2 level, the worse it will get. However late it has been left, it's still better to do what's needed than leave it even longer.



This won’t happen though.
Humanity has become a boiling frog.


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## spring-peeper (Jun 17, 2022)

Signal 11 said:


> It doesn't work like that. The longer we go on increasing the CO2 level, the worse it will get. However late it has been left, it's still better to do what's needed than leave it even longer.




We can attempt to slow it down, but it seems to be spirally out of control right now.

Over a decade ago, I took a two year course on environmental issues.
We held an open house and the press asked the woman beside me how she thought climate change could be stopped.  She answered that it was too late.  I don't think the reporter expected that answer, so looked around the group.  We were all nodding in agreement.  

Imo, all our individual efforts are useless until we ban such events as auto racing and air shows.


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## Flavour (Jun 17, 2022)

It's not an "on/off" switch though, and this fatalism is literally the worst possible reaction to it all, because it invites inaction, apathy, shoulder shrugging. It's _too late_ for what exactly? Too late to start even bothering to mitigate the worst possible effects of the climate crisis? That is insane and extremely selfish.


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## weltweit (Jun 17, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> ..
> Imo, all our individual efforts are useless until we ban such events as auto racing and air shows.


Even here there is hope. There is the electric car as being developed by many companies, and the Hydrogen car being developed by a few, then there is the Hydrogen aircraft as being developed by Airbus. 

And there are renewables, wind, solar, and tide .. there is work going on .. 

Occasionally I even see articles about scrubbing greenhouse gasses from the atmosphere, though these articles are not numerous it has to be said. 

There is hope but it would be better if we were moving faster.  And if all countries were moving forward at a similar speed. What Britain does is tiny compared to what the USA and China could do.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

I don’t know about you but being aware that we’re past a threshold absolutely does not mean I don’t make the effort. I’ve not flown in a plane for anything other than emergency (mother unwell) for more than ten years, I don’t have a car, I recycle everything I can, I spend my money as responsibly as possible etc.

Today I walked past several shops that were blasting cold air out onto the pavement, the same shops that blast out warm air in the winter to entice shoppers in. These shops, today, probably cancelled out all the efforts I’ve made this entire year

Until something is done about this kind of consumerist profligacy. not enough is being done.


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## spring-peeper (Jun 17, 2022)

Flavour said:


> It's not an "on/off" switch though, and this fatalism is literally the worst possible reaction to it all, because it invites inaction, apathy, shoulder shrugging. It's _too late_ for what exactly? Too late to start even bothering to mitigate the worst possible effects of the climate crisis? That is insane and extremely selfish.



I am not selfish - what a terrible thing to say.  You have no idea what my lifestyle is like, or where I live.
For example - while the rest of my community is chopping down trees to create farmland, we are stubbornly holding onto our 20 acre forest.  

I am not saying to stop decreasing our attempts to slow it down, but everyone has to buy into the program.

Next door, down in the States, pickup trucks are outselling all cars.  My puny actions will do little to combat the excessive polluting from those people.

I think the only way help reduce vehicle emissions is to show them they can save money buy choosing an alternative (electric cars in this case).
Maybe the high cost of gas may help people to realize that electric would be a better alternative.

The way we got our farmers to stop overfertilizing was to show them how much money they were wasting.
Since then, farming methods have be modified.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2022)

Signal 11 said:


> Currently those are tiny compared to emissions from burning fossil fuels. If we stopped right now we wouldn't need to worry about them.
> 
> Permafrost and the like are long term worst case issues. The real problems we have now are bad enough that we need to take drastic action.


Let's hope you're right. Let's hope that the gigatons of methane hydrates off the north coast of siberia don't bubble up in some great Arctic fart. Let's hope the tipping points haven't been reached but every bit of news from the Arctic is bloody awful.


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## spring-peeper (Jun 17, 2022)

story said:


> I don’t know about you but being aware that we’re past a threshold absolutely does not mean I don’t make the effort. I’ve not flown in a plane for anything other than emergency (mother unwell) for more than ten years, I don’t have a car, I recycle everything I can, I spend my money as responsibly as possible etc.
> 
> Today I walked past several shops that were blasting cold air out onto the pavement, the same shops that blast out warm air in the winter to entice shoppers in. Until something is done about this kind of consumerist profligacy, not enough is being done.



It must be nice to have access to public transit 

wrt to the heating and air conditioning - studies show that Canadians keep their houses cooler in the summer than in the winter.  Waste, waste, waste.

We do not have air conditioning, we have windows and curtains.

Again with the save money concept, attitudes are slowly changing.  Also, the stores are not as brightly lit anymore.  Saves electricity.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

weltweit said:


> Even here there is hope. There is the electric car as being developed by many companies, and the Hydrogen car being developed by a few, then there is the Hydrogen aircraft as being developed by Airbus.
> 
> And there are renewables, wind, solar, and tide .. there is work going on ..
> 
> ...



I remember when measures such as trying to recapture carbon was seen as extreme and end stage, yet here we are not having achieved it yet.

Electric cars are only greener at the point of use. Making the electricity used is still a major source of pollution, and the batteries are also filthy so it’s not just carbon pollution.

The tundra is melting. The icecaps are melting. Glaciers have disappeared. Even if we switch everything off tonight and don’t turn it on again, it’s too late to retrieve these.

The world as we knew it is over.
Whatever comes next, whether it’s a filthy fireball or some cleaner greener more responsible version, our life on this planet is unsustainable, and we can never find a way to continue as we are. All the current supply chain and access luxuries we enjoy will disappear.

And the truth is that too few people either know or care enough to be engaged with this issue. Even now. When I see how much litter and trash there is, it gives me a really clear idea of how little people care for the environment. If someone is dropping trash in the street do you think they give a shit about any of the rest of it?

I‘m as angry and exasperated as the next person about this. But as many letters as I write, as much recycling and litter picking I do, it’s irrelevant if the larger powers - y’know, those ones that don’t give a single solitary shit about anyone outside their personal fiefdom -won’t make the necessary changes,

I’m not talking about some shadowy cabal here, just, like, our own dear leaders ffs. Do you really think Starmer and Johnson really actually care about the environment? Of course not. They care about their power base. So no legislation will be be introduced. they’d have done it by now ffs if it mattered to them.

When Tony Hayward lamented that he wanted his life back. That’s a bloke who could have actually made some meaningful changes, but he demonstrably didn’t give a shit abiut anything outside his own personal experience of peace and plenty.

We clearly aren’t going to man the barricades and hang them from the lampposts, else we’d have done it by now.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

Changes are being driven by the industry. Because they see their source of income being destroyed. Well they should have done something a bit sooner, eh.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> It must be nice to have access to public transit
> 
> wrt to the heating and air conditioning - studies show that Canadians keep their houses cooler in the summer than in the winter.  Waste, waste, waste.
> 
> ...



In America too. I have to carry something to put on when I go into shops etc in the summer.
And despite the hot dry weather they use tumble driers to dry their laundry…. because it’s too hot to go outside and they feel icky when they go out there. They build long low houses with dark roofs. It’s all stupid.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

And we’re adding to the problem with every minute we spend online. By the way.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

Also cryptocurrency.
So long as that little craze continues to bubble along, not enough is being done to turn this around.


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## Flavour (Jun 17, 2022)

story said:


> And we’re adding to the problem with every minute we spend online. By the way.


True, but the internet is, at this point, completely essential to any efforts to organization to counteract the climate crisis


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## PTK (Jun 17, 2022)

story said:


> Me too.
> I reckon it’s already too late.


Already too late for what? If we stop producing greenhouse gases tomorrow, temperatures will not decrease on human timescales. However, according to the models, temperatures will stop increasing. Extreme weather events will continue to occur, and the frequency of them may increase, but things would be even worse if we did nothing.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

Flavour said:


> True, but the internet is, at this point, completely essential to any efforts to organization to counteract the climate crisis



Exactly.
We are stuck in a reiterative loop of destruction now.

Like when everyone in a heatwave cranks up their a/c or dies of heat. Or the same for ridiculous cold weather, like in Texas when they had to run their cars to keep warm.


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## story (Jun 17, 2022)

PTK said:


> Already too late for what? If we stop producing greenhouse gases tomorrow, temperatures will not decrease on human timescales. However, according to the models, temperatures will stop increasing. Extreme weather events will continue to occur, and the frequency of them may increase, but things would be even worse if we did nothing.



Yes.
As I said, it is already too late.


Jaysus, I’m not arguing to do nothing. We need to keep trying, of course we do. I’m not quite at the stage of helplessness.

But to repeat. Even if we turn everything off tonight and never turn any of it on again, it’s already too late to save the world we knew. In fact, turning everything off also destroys the world we have lived in, but in a different way.

Until and unless we grasp that the world we lived in, that we currently live in, is absolutely unsustainable and must end, regardless of anything we do to maintain the status quo, we can’t save the things we really want to. Like easy access to food and heat/cool on demand.

We can’t continue as we are.
The changes we must make must be drastic.
Whatever we do next, the world as we currently experience it is over.

It’s the reluctance to accept this that hampers our efforts to make the necessary changes.


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## weltweit (Jun 17, 2022)

story said:


> I remember when measures such as trying to recapture carbon was seen as extreme and end stage, yet here we are not having achieved it yet.


My feeling is we have to stop pumping it out before we will attempt to clean the atmosphere. 


story said:


> Electric cars are only greener at the point of use. Making the electricity used is still a major source of pollution, and the batteries are also filthy so it’s not just carbon pollution.


I did mention solar, wind and tide, there really is progress there. And RR are trying to create a modular nuclear reactor, more similar to the small reactors on nuclear submarines but which on land can provide energy for a few towns from each unit. There is progress towards clean electricity at least here in the UK. What the Chinese are doing I don't know, I expect they are still building coal powered stations at a rate.  

And work continues to create fusion.  It does always seem 20 years away, will we get there?   


story said:


> The tundra is melting. The icecaps are melting. Glaciers have disappeared. Even if we switch everything off tonight and don’t turn it on again, it’s too late to retrieve these.


I think that is too negative, the planet has been through various warming and cooling periods in its past, while the current heating trends are down to human created pollution - if that is fixed (If, I know) there is no reason why we might not eventually enter a new cooling period which could reinstate glaciers etc.   


story said:


> The world as we knew it is over.
> Whatever comes next, whether it’s a filthy fireball or some cleaner greener more responsible version, our life on this planet is unsustainable, and we can never find a way to continue as we are. All the current supply chain and access luxuries we enjoy will disappear.


There are too many humans and we are pumping out too many greenhouse gasses. Change is essential and also possible. 



story said:


> And the truth is that too few people either know or care enough to be engaged with this issue. Even now. When I see how much litter and trash there is, it gives me a really clear idea of how little people care for the environment. If someone is dropping trash in the street do you think they give a shit about any of the rest of it?


37 years ago I hitchiked round Australia. On the main roads both sides even far out into the outback there was trash for 15m either side of the roads. They ate and drank as they drove and chucked the packaging out of their car windows. They didn't care about their beautiful outback.  And they didn't use solar power even with the abundance of sun that they have. My understanding is that they are using it now. 


story said:


> I’m not talking about some shadowy cabal here, just, like, our own dear leaders ffs. Do you really think Starmer and Johnson really actually care about the environment? Of course not. They care about their power base. So no legislation will be be introduced. they’d have done it by now ffs if it mattered to them.


Don't you think the UK electric only car sales target is worth something? It has made the car industry sit up and take note and they are starting to reinvent themselves as electric car companies.  

Personally, where I live there are at least 4 or 5 Teslas that I see regularly. One charges itself on my way to work attached to a very ordinary house. I wonder how they afford it, but they do.


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## story (Jun 18, 2022)

weltweit said:


> My feeling is we have to stop pumping it out before we will attempt to clean the atmosphere.
> 
> I did mention solar, wind and tide, there really is progress there. And RR are trying to create a modular nuclear reactor, more similar to the small reactors on nuclear submarines but which on land can provide energy for a few towns from each unit. There is progress towards clean electricity at least here in the UK. What the Chinese are doing I don't know, I expect they are still building coal powered stations at a rate.
> 
> ...



One is not exclusive to the other, we need to be deal with this crisis at both ends and everywhere in between. I hate the notion of climate engineering and when the idea was first mooted I thought it was very obviously a disaster in the making. So long as anyone thinks there will be a fix further along the line, they don’t bother fixing what’s immediately in the vicinity. Kicking the ball into the long grass, as I think the vernacular has it. But since we’re now where we are, let’s get on with it and try what we can to reverse some of the damage we’ve caused.

Wind, wave, solar, even nuclear…. Whatever has been achieved here is a piss in the ocean, and anyway does nothing to address the real and immense ongoing issues. These replacements can only ever reduce our impact from this point on, not change the damage we’ve already caused. And anyway, they’re not free, not completely. Manufacturing and dealing with resulting trash also has an impact. At this point even small negatives create large impact. Because we’ve arrived at the point where any accumulative result is all pouring over the edges. When a bath is overflowing, it matters not whether it’s an extra cup ful or a whole bucket that’s been added, the existing and ongoing water pouring over the edge is the actual problem. Also, until we solve the problem of nuclear pollution, it’s not really a solution is it, it’s just more kicking the problem into the long grass.

The truth is that the carbon problem is only one of several intractable concurrent issues. It’s the biggest and the most pressing, especially for us humans, but there are others that will have similarly catastrophic outcomes. Plastics is the next one. Then there’s the chemical residue we’ve shrouded the entire planet with. And the disaster we’ve created with our squandering of antibiotics is another (I’m not talking about humans here, I’m talking about bacteria, the wider environment). Plus all the other pharmceutical chemicals that are having real and seriously detrimental effects in animals (look up medicine/drugs environmental damage).

 What the Chinese are doing is not the issue. What we are all doing, each of us, and collectively, that’s the issue. All those people who got stuck in airports last week, none of them decided not to fly, they all felt entitled to go off for a week to soak up some sun with the family. And why not, it’s important, even essential, to have a break, lay in the sunshine, spend time with family, give the kids an adventure. Our individual requirements trumps everything else. That is the world we are tying to hang on to, the world where we can make these choices with impunity. And it’s over, that world is ended. Plenty of us will strive to preserve it just by stubbornly continuing to live in the old ways. The Chinese coming up with clever ideas and planting forests and buying up tracts of land in Africa to feed their people won’t make any bloody difference to my decision to drive to Cornwall or not. Nor will they discourage Sikicon Valley from coming uo with her more ways to drain the life out of us via our screens. Tik Tok etc must be a huge fucking sump for energy, carbon etc. and the endless new devices with their wrap around screens too.

As for breakthroughs like fusion….. well, it’s a nice idea, eh. And no doubt some folks will continue to plug away at the question, just as there are others who are banging away in their shed trying to invent the perfect deckchair. So much scientific endeavour is done for its own sake and with no real useful outcome. How much energy and waste goes into the scientific endeavour? Maybe not enough if we’ve still not managed to work out fusion,

And there will always be curve balls, like the pandemic. Waste and a dramatic downturn in recycling in organisations like the NHS directly resulted from the pandemic. When they come to look at the layers, they’ll be able to see the pandemic as a thin layer of predominantly blue plastic amongst everything else.

It‘s true that the planet has been through many fluxes before, and will again for sure, This crisis is not about The Planet though. It’s about humanity, and our current civilisation. If we hadn’t fucked up our civilisation so badly, we wouldn’t be in this crisis in the first place. We took a bad turn somewhere and we’re now in a cul de sac.

It’s not true that there are too many humans. If you pile us up, or line us up, we take uo very little space. It’s our exploitative abusive lifestyle that’s the problem. Our addiction to luxury and our point blank refusal to experience any want or lack. That’s what’s at the root of inequality /poverty, and it has impoverished the natural environment too. There are enough resources (or there was before we fucked it up).

Australia: I bet they still litter, and they may do a bit of solar power (10% last yea)  but my god they’ve fucked up their rivers.

UK electric cars. Too little too late. Why wasn’t it being done following the energy crisis in the 70s? And this idea that electric cars will save us is a falacy. Where do you think the electricity comes from? And the batteries are disastrous in different ways

Four or five Teslas in your neighbourhood is a novelty, as you demonstrate by mentioning them at all.

We have to keep trying, of course we do, anything else is madness.
But I really do think we’ve passed the point where we can save the world we currently live in.


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## weltweit (Jun 18, 2022)

story said:


> ..
> We have to keep trying, of course we do, anything else is madness.
> But I really do think we’ve passed the point where we can save the world we currently live in.


I don't know if we are past that point, we might be and we might in a delusion carry on until it becomes apparent that we can't continue, the lights going out for example or extreme weather events.

I think the kicking it into the long grass is a result of the election cycle, no one set of politicians wants to do unpopular things lest they lose the next election as a result.

Wind tide solar nuclear are the ways we get to clean (non carbon) energy to charge all the electric cars and stop the pollution from energy and the tailpipes of all our petrol and diesel vehicles. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have mentioned solar because first Britain doesn't get so much sun and secondly I think government have ceased the grant assistance for domestic solar panels, and at full price they aren't so attractive. Tidal energy is promising and there are I believe tests going on in Scotland at the moment of tidal turbines, implementation is some way off though.

Wind is in a much better place, we have offshore wind which sidesteps the nimby issue neatly and as far as I can tell is expanding well. Still it only works when the wind blows and is still a fraction of the energy the grid needs daily.

And nuclear, well we have forgotten how to build nuclear reactors so have to rely on foreign companies to build new UK nuclear plants. But it is problematic I believe one Japanese consortium recently pulled out of a project to build a new UK nuclear reactor (the names don't spring to mind, was it Hitachi and Sizewell C?). I believe France's EDF is building one for us.

Yes nuclear creates an issue of waste which we still don't know what to do with apart from keeping it under review at Sellafield. But at least nuclear doesn't burn carbon and arguably should be used to provide the base load the grid needs when the sun doesn't shine (night) and the wind doesn't blow.

I am very encouraged by RR's small modular reactors concept and hope they get the go ahead to develop them into production. I think they are the sort of lateral thinking we need to prevent the lights going out because of all these new cars charging away! (and because we will have to take coal stations offline)

You dismiss China but the truth is that it almost does not matter what the UK does as respects carbon if China and the USA don't also reduce or eliminate their carbon emissions. We are tiny in respect of our pollution compared to China and the USA. We all have to tackle our emissions with some urgency.

Let us hope that Trump is not re-elected as he has already shown that he does not believe in climate change and him being in power would set the US back decades and set the wrong example for China and India.

The unfortunate effect of your curved balls that we find is that they take our eyes off the ball where climate change is concerned. We had the Glasgow conference which I believe went reasonably well, but then we had Covid-19 which deflected almost all media interest away from climate and then Russia invading Ukraine with the result that climate change has effectively been removed from media scrutiny, and became also forgotten in the public mind.

It is true that it isn't the nominal number of humans on the planet that is the issue, it is the economies and dirty industry and lifestyles that comes with them which is the problem causing climate change.

You also mentioned batteries and for the carbon free energy grid they are obviously essential as they are also for electric vehicles. You are right that they bring their own issues and problems of scarce exotic materials but there is also a mass of research going into battery design right now and my bet would be that the batteries of 20 years hence will be quite different material wise and offer much more in the way of performance compared to batteries of today.

In the meantime though I believe Cornwall has sizeable Lithium deposits so there could be development of mining again in the far south west.

That massive battery that Tesla built in South Australia for their grid, has to be a way forward, I am surprised there haven't yet been more, but I expect there will be.

I am a fan of engineering and I believe it will be engineers that will show us the way out of this crisis, politicians are not able or willing and in any case are in the main inexpert.


----------



## A380 (Jun 18, 2022)

Flavour said:


> you're all laughing about it now but come back to this in a few months when harvests have failed and the price of lots of goods the UK imports from mainland Europe (e.g. wine, oranges, pasta, lots of other fruit and veg) has shot up -- someone will blame it on Brexit but it won't be that.


Of course not, it will all be NATO's fault...


----------



## A380 (Jun 18, 2022)

I'd recommend this great novel to anyone with the slightest interest in the climate emergency.


----------



## Riklet (Jun 18, 2022)

It's never too late.

This is a key life lesson.

Am I fuck going to stop driving my petrol car though.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 19, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I wonder if drought and high temperatures across Europe will focus minds?
> 
> Something has to prompt action.
> 
> Unfortunately the Ukraine war seems to have stolen all the press coverage from climate change.



What press coverage of climate change?


----------



## weltweit (Jun 19, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> What press coverage of climate change?


indeed, what coverage! ?


----------



## ska invita (Jun 19, 2022)

Flavour said:


> While the Paris Agreement talks about limiting global warming to 1.5° above pre-industrial levels (already a fantasy, of course), parts of Europe are experiencing temperatures as much as 4 degrees above normal this year, and the accompanying drought is terrifying.
> 
> It hasn't rained almost _at all_ for several months in a large area of the continent.
> 
> ...


Rainfall is low in England too 









						April showers dwindled in dry month
					

April showers were in short supply for the UK in 2022, according to provisional figures from the Met Office. The UK had around a third less rainfall than its average for the month, with southern ar…




					blog.metoffice.gov.uk


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Rainfall is low in England too
> 
> 
> 
> ...




We’ve had some torrential bits but I was looking at this in April and apparently we’ve had consecutively some of the driest springs we’ve had. This year being particularly bad, very little rain from Jan onwards


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## Flavour (Jun 19, 2022)

it takes a couple of years but eventually the UK too will go from "oh this is nice weather isn't it, hasn't rained for ages! how unusual!" to "... isn't it meant to rain occasionally?"


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## ska invita (Jun 19, 2022)

Flavour said:


> it takes a couple of years but eventually the UK too will go from "oh this is nice weather isn't it, hasn't rained for ages! how unusual!" to "... isn't it meant to rain occasionally?"


Iirc the predicted model is dry"summers" (including spring) and wet winters with more flooding at that time


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## ska invita (Jun 19, 2022)

Spanish firefighters tackle raging wildfires
					

Temperature records have been broken in Spain and France as a heatwave sweeps across Europe.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Im quite interested in desalination (as you do)...I found an article recently that was quite technical (beyond me) but gave a good outline of the advances being made, but limitations still faced








						A brief history of the energy intensity of desalination
					

As we’ll see, thermal distillation, though still used today, is just the first generation of technologies adapted and developed to desalinate water. In terms of energy intensity, much has happened since Aristotle walked the shores of ancient Greece.



					www.danfoss.com
				




Basically if the energy aspect can be cracked desalination technology has the potential to make much of scorched earth an eden, through irrigation and whatnot....

looking at the advances in solar power and especially fusion, that might be a reality by the end of the century...i wish i could live to see it. But it all is coming too late to what is needed now.

The additional worry is that if rich hot places like California get desperate they will start desalinating, even with the energy cost and subsequent ecological damage of that extra energy use has. - a vicious cycle really

But yeah highly energy efficient desalination technology could see the end of droughts...one day


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Spanish firefighters tackle raging wildfires
> 
> 
> Temperature records have been broken in Spain and France as a heatwave sweeps across Europe.
> ...


Or we could just do something about emissions and the rest should follow


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Iirc the predicted model is dry"summers" (including spring) and wet winters with more flooding at that time



Odd monsoon seasons like last year to, July was a washout, we'll be wet but it'll be very much all at once rather than continuously.


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## 2hats (Jun 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Rainfall is low in England too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Provisional data indicates that tended to continue through May - a trend largely evident for the best part of a year now.


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## Flavour (Jun 21, 2022)

crazy pictures of dried up italian rivers here








						Ondata di caldo e siccità, dal Brenta al Po (FOTO) i fiumi sono in secca: “L'Adige è sotto del 24%, dati allarmanti”. Dall'Adriatico "acqua salata già risalita di 21 chilometri"
					

TRENTO. Dal Po (ed i suoi affluenti) al Brenta, dal Tagliamento fino all'Adige: con la siccità estrema e l'ondata di caldo eccezionale che stanno interessando buona parte del Paese i fiumi nel Nord Italia sono in crisi. Le immagini raccolte e condivise sui social negli scorsi giorni parlano...




					www.ildolomiti.it
				




the last para of the article says rain is 65% less than what it normally is in the Veneto region, and that it hasn't rained for 110 days consecutively. Agricultural losses will be between 50 and 100% of yield. The Adige river is 24% lower than normal, the Brenta 43%, the Bacchiglione 58% and the Po 47%.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 21, 2022)

Flavour said:


> While the Paris Agreement talks about limiting global warming to 1.5° above pre-industrial levels (already a fantasy, of course), parts of Europe are experiencing temperatures as much as 4 degrees above normal this year, and the accompanying drought is terrifying.
> 
> It hasn't rained almost _at all_ for several months in a large area of the continent.
> 
> ...


And yet there they are, all drivng to work again this morning. Wankers. Why is it acceptable for others to destroy the planet we all have to live on?

Stop taking part in the whole illusion. Is the ONLY solution.


----------



## Flavour (Jun 21, 2022)

yes everyone who drives to work is a wanker.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2022)

Flavour said:


> crazy pictures of dried up italian rivers here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i imagine that there'll be some subsidence issues to come too


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2022)

Flavour said:


> yes everyone who drives to work is a wanker.


not to mention quite a few of the people cycling to work


----------



## LDC (Jun 21, 2022)

A380 said:


> I'd recommend this great novel to anyone with the slightest interest in the climate emergency.
> 
> View attachment 327788



I got given a copy of that for my birthday A380, don't usually read stuff like that, but really enjoyed it.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 21, 2022)

story said:


> Yes.
> As I said, it is already too late.
> 
> 
> ...


We need to stop waiting for everyone else and just do it ourselves.


----------



## campanula (Jun 21, 2022)

A380 said:


> I'd recommend this great novel to anyone with the slightest interest in the climate emergency.
> 
> View attachment 327788


KSR's writing trajectory has been consistently prophetic and illuminating since the 2004 trilogy comprising '40 signs of Rain;, '50 degrees below' and '60 days and counting'.


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## A380 (Jun 21, 2022)

campanula said:


> KSR's writing trajectory has been consistently prophetic and illuminating since the 2004 trilogy comprising '40 signs of Rain;, '50 degrees below' and '60 days and counting'.


I liked his Mars trilogy and Red Moon is awesome. Years of Rice and Salt is a fascinating premise but I thought the book was great, but flawed.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 21, 2022)

unfortunately, capitalism is still based on the premise of digging stuff up and setting fire to it ultimately. we are fucked.


----------



## campanula (Jun 21, 2022)

A380 said:


> I liked his Mars trilogy and Red Moon is awesome. Years of Rice and Salt is a fascinating premise but I thought the book was great, but flawed.


You might like Richard Powers' The Overstory', as a novel of climate change and protest.


----------



## A380 (Jun 21, 2022)

campanula said:


> You might like Richard Powers' The Overstory', as a novel of climate change and protest.


Ta, will have a look.


----------



## yield (Jul 30, 2022)

Drought Threatens Major Rivers in the U.S. and Europe
Maritime Executive. Jul 29, 2022


> Romania is a major grains and sunflower exporter in EU with part of its farms depending on Danube River basin for irrigation. The government has already warned that this year it could export much less corn after drought battered harvests. Water storage have been an issue, with levels about half of the multiyear average this year.
> 
> Besides agriculture, Danube’s low water levels in Romania also put at risk the river’s transportation and the output of the power plant along the river basin.





> Meanwhile, the Rhine River has also been affected by the changing climatic regime. As one of Europe’s important inland waterways, its current low water levels is disconcerting, specifically in Germany.
> 
> “The Rhine is a crucial inland waterway, on which goods are shipped to and from the industrial heartlands of southern and western Germany. Low water levels mean that river barges will have to travel with  reduced freight to limit their draft or even cease operating altogether,” Salomon Fiedler, an economist at Berenberg Bank, said in a note last week.


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## 8ball (Jul 31, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> not to mention quite a few of the people cycling to work



Don’t forget the pedestrians.

Leg wankers.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 31, 2022)

Yesterday me and my mum went on a butterfly identification walk. We past a new luxury housing development which was only accessible by car and because of the position of the homes would have meant that it would have been impossible to walk into town. As long as stuff like this keeps being built it's going to be hard to change anything.


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## Kevbad the Bad (Jul 31, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Yesterday me and my mum went on a butterfly identification walk. We past a new luxury housing development which was only accessible by car and because of the position of the homes would have meant that it would have been impossible to walk into town. As long as stuff like this keeps being built it's going to be hard to change anything.


There's a similar thing around our way. Not a luxury development, but a bog standard one. The only pedestrian access is via a long flight of steps and a narrow, steep hill where the pavement disappears unless you cross the road. Everyone objected to it, including local councillors and planners, only to be overruled by central government. Short sighted ignorant bastards the lot of them.


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## ska invita (Aug 5, 2022)

wow








						France drought: Parched towns left short of drinking water
					

Trucks are supplying many parched French towns with drinking water after an exceptionally dry July.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## campanula (Aug 6, 2022)

My poplars have lost over 25% of their leaves in one week - the entire floor of the wood covered in crisped leaves (not even had chance for the anthocyanins to develop). I planted 100 or so saplings last autumn but couldn't get round to check cos I used brambles as nurse plants so I have no idea what percentage of them might have survived. Had to water a dawn redwood for the first time ever - spent several hours trickling 150ish litres of water  (8 large buckets) over the root sphere. My neighbouring farmer has an extraction licence from the Yare so he set up an irrigation pipe to cover the west side of the wood (where the fruit trees are). Showed me the difference between irrigated and non-irrigated maize - the dry corn was just over 12inches while normal maize, at this time of year, is usually reaching 4foot tall. Sugar beet shrivelled in fields and all the angelica and hogweed umbellifers are skeletal, and I have lost all my milk-parsley colonies so could be a total disaster for swallowtails in the area - they are already barely hanging on in a tiny patch of Norfolk. Only hope now is to interbreed with European swallowtails which occasionally migrate  across the channel...but have not yet been seen in East Anglia. Only had one brood this year in June with diminishing hopes for the survival of the caterpillars.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 6, 2022)

campanula said:


> My poplars have lost over 25% of their leaves in one week - the entire floor of the wood covered in crisped leaves (not even had chance for the anthocyanins to develop). I planted 100 or so saplings last autumn but couldn't get round to check cos I used brambles as nurse plants so I have no idea what percentage of them might have survived. Had to water a dawn redwood for the first time ever - spent several hours trickling 150ish litres of water  (8 large buckets) over the root sphere. My neighbouring farmer has an extraction licence from the Yare so he set up an irrigation pipe to cover the west side of the wood (where the fruit trees are). Showed me the difference between irrigated and non-irrigated maize - the dry corn was just over 12inches while normal maize, at this time of year, is usually reaching 4foot tall. Sugar beet shrivelled in fields and all the angelica and hogweed umbellifers are skeletal.




Yeah my last walk in Epping Forest was like autumn, waves of dry crispy leaves underfoot.

No rain forecast for fucking ages.


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## Elpenor (Aug 7, 2022)

I don’t think there’s been more than a few spots of rain (on just a couple of days) in my part of Devon since 30th June


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## Flavour (Aug 7, 2022)

Yeah I'm seeing quite big old trees visibily suffering this summer, don't remember seeing that before.


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## 8ball (Aug 7, 2022)

Flavour said:


> Yeah I'm seeing quite big old trees visibily suffering this summer, don't remember seeing that before.





Are you wise in the ways of trees?

(I have a biology degree and know next to fuck all, so don’t take that as an attack)


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## story (Aug 7, 2022)

My apple tree has desiccated leaves. I’ve been watering it intermittently (the grass around it is green) but the heat has fried the leaves and it’s dumping apples daily now.

And my little Japanese maple dropped all its leaves after that hot spell, even though it’s in the shade of the ash tree. It’s put out two hopeful replacements, so it is striving. Ash seems okay despite having early stages of H. fraxineus.

Basil rosemary thyme etc all thriving though.

Some days as I’m tending my garden I feel like the Little Prince tending his rose bush.




campanula That all sounds very alarming and upsetting. What on earth is to become of us.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Aug 7, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> I don’t think there’s been more than a few spots of rain (on just a couple of days) in my part of Devon since 30th June


We've had some rain thankfully.  Reservoirs in this region are about 60% full so not too bad, but hopefully we'll get more rain soon to top them up.


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## campanula (Aug 7, 2022)

There has been no rain since March here in the east!  However, I am not getting apocalyptic after 1 hot summer - just last year was rainy, blighty and disease ridden. Weather is by its very nature, unpredictable and climate does not turn over the course of a year. Trees which are struggling have their own ways of dealing with drought...any examination of a cross-section of trunk will reveal the differences from one year to the next. Those wide stretches between rings - evidence of a good summer with plentiful sunlight and water, interspersed with closely packed annual rings where summer growth was attenuated because of late frosts, dry winds, lack of rain, far-off tectonic events and so on. Dropping leaves is the first sign of drought and is basically a protective measure to slow transpiration. There will be deaths...but also opportunities. Birches may vanish from the southern lowlands but pines and laurels are quick to fill the gaps. Nature is nothing if not resilient and life is truly tenacious so, as a gardener, I am planning for a changing climate and acting accordingly.

story - we can still have roses...just not those water-sucking, large-leaved, centifolia types. Time to trawl the world of species, starting with the absolute delights of the little dune roses - the spinossissimas/burnet roses (often referred to as 'Scotch roses), Or the apple scented briars, the rampant musk roses - rosa brunonii, rosa bracteata, rose californicae, rosa cooperi. Early delights with the banksian roses, flowering in April. If you have space, look out for the gorgeous pale yellow 'Mermaid'...or Austrian copper, and then there are the true china tea roses - devoniensis, Lady Hillingdon, Sophie's Perpetual, rosa bengale and best of all, mutabilis, Or, all the small 5 petalled species such as r.hugonis, r.ecae, r.cantabridgiensis and the perfumed r.primula. I know you are a bit skint (like me) but sometime in November, look on Trevor Whites rose nursery website (Trevor Whites Old Fashioned Roses) and order at least 1 wildling. For the joys it will bring, money well spent.

Apols going off on garden stuff but we do notice climatic changes when immersed in seasonal growing cycles.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2022)

story said:


> Until something is done about this kind of consumerist profligacy. not enough is being done.



Ironically it's the energy companies working hardest to slow down the mass consumption economy by making sure nobody's got any money left after they've paid for electricity and fuel.


----------



## story (Aug 7, 2022)

campanula said:


> There has been no rain since March here in the east!  However, I am not getting apocalyptic after 1 hot summer - just last year was rainy, blighty and disease ridden. Weather is by its very nature, unpredictable and climate does not turn over the course of a year. Trees which are struggling have their own ways of dealing with drought...any examination of a cross-section of trunk will reveal the differences from one year to the next. Those wide stretches between rings - evidence of a good summer with plentiful sunlight and water, interspersed with closely packed annual rings where summer growth was attenuated because of late frosts, dry winds, lack of rain, far-off tectonic events and so on. Dropping leaves is the first sign of drought and is basically a protective measure to slow transpiration. There will be deaths...but also opportunities. Birches may vanish from the southern lowlands but pines and laurels are quick to fill the gaps. Nature is nothing if not resilient and life is truly tenacious so, as a gardener, I am planning for a changing climate and acting accordingly.
> 
> story - we can still have roses...just not those water-sucking, large-leaved, centifolia types. Time to trawl the world of species, starting with the absolute delights of the little dune roses - the spinossissimas/burnet roses (often referred to as 'Scotch roses), Or the apple scented briars, the rampant musk roses - rosa brunonii, rosa bracteata, rose californicae, rosa cooperi. Early delights with the banksian roses, flowering in April. If you have space, look out for the gorgeous pale yellow 'Mermaid'...or Austrian copper, and then there are the true china tea roses - devoniensis, Lady Hillingdon, Sophie's Perpetual, rosa bengale and best of all, mutabilis, Or, all the small 5 petalled species such as r.hugonis, r.ecae, r.cantabridgiensis and the perfumed r.primula. I know you are a bit skint (like me) but sometime in November, look on Trevor Whites rose nursery website (Trevor Whites Old Fashioned Roses) and order at least 1 wildling. For the joys it will bring, money well spent.
> 
> Apols going off on garden stuff but we do notice climatic changes when immersed in seasonal growing cycles.



Thank you for these lovely suggestions.
I was referring to the Little Princ’s rather futile but kind and loving and hopeful attention to his selfish rose in the face of inevitable purposelessness rather than lamenting roses myself. I have planted a R. cana alongside hawthorn, Viburnum opulus and Sambucus nigra, and I’ve inherited a lovely repeat blooming dark red rose, a rambling rose in hideous old hotel- pink and a rather pretty yellow rose, but none of them are scented, which seems a little pointless. I may take those out in time, or plant more scented and more suitable roses alongside them, to complement their habits and colours (maybe something bright orange or black against the pink one). I love the rosehip syrup I get from R. rugosa but not sure I have the space for that to be large enough for the fruit, and its easy enough to forage that elsewhere.

My sister has a special love for roses. She has a place in Norfolk so I’ll certainly be passing on your suggestions to her.


I take your point about nature being resilient and having good and bad years. It’s still upsetting to see things struggle though.

I was going to plant some birch (we had a little discussion about this elswhere on here a wee while ago) but I’m now tending towards olive and a pine of some kind. I’m thinking of the pine trees in Greece, with the really long needles and the wind sighing and singing through them like a long outward breath.

The magnolia seems fine too. I guess the species has been around for such a very long time that it’s learnt how to deal with dramatic climate change pretty well.

(as an aside, the rotten bloody slugs have eaten every last shred of my chicory. I’ll put a plastic bottle cloche over it tonight and every night in hopes of recovery from the root)


----------



## campanula (Aug 7, 2022)

story said:


> Thank you for these lovely suggestions.
> I was referring to the Little Princ’s rather futile but kind and loving and hopeful attention to his selfish rose in the face of inevitable purposelessness rather than lamenting roses myself. I have planted a R. cana alongside hawthorn, Viburnum opulus and Sambucus nigra, and I’ve inherited a lovely repeat blooming dark red rose, a rambling rose in hideous old hotel- pink and a rather pretty yellow rose, but none of them are scented, which seems a little pointless. I may take those out in time, or plant more scented and more suitable roses alongside them, to complement their habits and colours (maybe something bright orange or black against the pink one). I love the rosehip syrup I get from R. rugosa but not sure I have the space for that to be large enough for the fruit, and its easy enough to forage that elsewhere.
> 
> My sister has a special love for roses. She has a place in Norfolk so I’ll certainly be passing on your suggestions to her.
> ...


Yeah, I have something of a rose fetish but have generally always gone for the simple single wildlings rather than hybrid teas and floribundas. They all bloom in a 2month window then I get heps and haws for winter. My magnolias couldn't cope with the dry soil sadly. I agree that scented roses are lovely and have an especially joy for those with scented foliage - eglantines and r.primula which smells of incense


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## weltweit (Aug 7, 2022)

I keep noticing this thread about drought in Europe and thinking to myself that whoever decided to spell drought that way was particularly English. 

It should be spelt "drowt" surely. At least if there is any justice in the world!


----------



## yield (Aug 7, 2022)

weltweit said:


> I keep noticing this thread about drought in Europe and thinking to myself that whoever decided to spell drought that way was particularly English.
> 
> It should be spelt "drowt" surely. At least if there is any justice in the world!


_drouth








						You Ought To Be Taught
					

How ‘ough’ and ‘augh’ infiltrated their various ways into English.




					medium.com
				



_


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2022)

They are introducing water rationing here this month but not for domestic and farming - it’s primarily directed at the hotels and leisure .


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## tim (Aug 7, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> unfortunately, capitalism is still based on the premise of digging stuff up and setting fire to it ultimately. we are fucked.




Millenarianism, in either religious or secular forms, is based on the idea that ultimately we are fucked


----------



## story (Aug 7, 2022)

campanula said:


> Yeah, I have something of a rose fetish but have generally always gone for the simple single wildlings rather than hybrid teas and floribundas. They all bloom in a 2month window then I get heps and haws for winter. My magnolias couldn't cope with the dry soil sadly. I agree that scented roses are lovely and have an especially joy for those with scented foliage - eglantines and r.primula which smells of incense



Ooh! Those sound heavenly.

_making notes_


----------



## teuchter (Aug 10, 2022)

Not looking great on the Rhine.









						Rhine River Withers to Crisis Level as Europe Thirsts for Energy
					

The Rhine River is set to become virtually impassable at a key waypoint in Germany, as shallow water chokes off shipments of energy products and other industrial commodities along one of Europe’s most important waterways.




					www.bloomberg.com


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 11, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)

Mr.Bishie said:


>



Drought so severe that French nuclear power stations have had to reduce output because of environmental rules limiting the temperature of the waste water used for cooling that is returned to rivers.
Source.


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Drought so severe that French nuclear power stations have had to reduce output because of environmental rules limiting the temperature of the waste water used for cooling that is returned to rivers.
> Source.


Isn't that exactly what Mr Bishie posted above?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2022)

cesare said:


> Isn't that exactly what Mr Bishie posted above?


brogdale is the lance corporal jones of urban


----------



## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)

cesare said:


> Isn't that exactly what Mr Bishie posted above?


sort of...but it's quite a good over-view article, nonetheless...and...it's fecking hot and my brain is not working well!


----------



## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> brogdale is the lance corporal jones of urban


the fucking nerve!


----------



## ska invita (Aug 11, 2022)

cesare said:


> Isn't that exactly what Mr Bishie posted above?


Tbf the tweet had an incorrect picture and no detail about the outcome


----------



## cesare (Aug 11, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Tbf the tweet had an incorrect picture and no detail about the outcome


You clicked on it


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## bcuster (Aug 11, 2022)

Drought nearly ended British colonization of N America:









						Drought, Siege, and Starvation
					

Algonquian Daily Life Algonquian daily activities centered around subsistence tasks of making canoes, fishing and hunting, growing corn, and preparing meals. As coastal Indians, they feasted upon s…




					virtual-jamestown.com


----------



## bcuster (Aug 11, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)




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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 11, 2022)

brogdale Go ‘n stick your noggin in a cold bucket of water forthwith!


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## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)

Mr.Bishie said:


> brogdale Go ‘n stick your noggin in a cold bucket of water forthwith!


Not filled with a hose, though!


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## bcuster (Aug 19, 2022)

The drought is getting frightening 









						Low water levels on Danube reveal sunken WW2 German warships
					

Europe's worst drought in years has pushed the mighty river Danube to one of its lowest levels in almost a century, exposing the hulks of dozens of explosives-laden German warships sunk during World War Two near Serbia's river port town of Prahovo.  The vessels were among hundreds scuttled along...




					www.yahoo.com


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 19, 2022)

The Hunger Stones on the Elbe are far more revealing! 









						Hunger stones, wrecks and bones: Europe’s drought brings past to surface
					

Receding rivers and lakes have exposed ghost villages, a Nazi vehicle and a Roman fort




					www.theguardian.com


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