# Good fantasy not set in a medieval setting



## Santino (Jun 19, 2012)

Is there any good fantasy literature that's set in something other than a Dark Age or pseudo-medieval (usually European, but sometimes Chinese or something) setting? Like, with gunpowder and early modern capitalism?


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## Idaho (Jun 19, 2012)

Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson?


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## Santino (Jun 19, 2012)

That's science fiction. History of science fiction.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2012)

Perdido Street Station and the other two Bas Lag novels. Industrial revolution sort of. 

19th century, alternate england victorian sort of- Jonathon Strange and Mr Norell. Susan Clarke (iirc)

Hugo Cook- unclassifiable. Just weird, and funny.Best: Walrus and the Warwolf (yes I know it sounds stupidly cliche but thats half the point. It's like a pastiche of pulp. )


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## Lord Camomile (Jun 19, 2012)

Gaiman...? 

(e2a: more a "would that count?" than a suggestion)


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## QueenOfGoths (Jun 19, 2012)

"The House of Storms" Iain R. MacLeod - though it borders sci-fi/fantasy. Victorian, industrial and early capitalism are all in there though tbh though I enjoyed the ideas in the book I did find the execution a little dull

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-House-Storms-Ian-MacLeod/dp/0743256727


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## Reno (Jun 19, 2012)

Jonathan Carroll's novels take place in the present and often deal with protagonists who experience a blurring between the real world and a fictional or fantastical universe. I especially liked Bones of the Moon which is about a dream world which starts to seep into the heroines real life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Carroll


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> Is there any good fantasy literature that's set in something other than a Dark Age or pseudo-medieval (usually European, but sometimes Chinese or something) setting? Like, with gunpowder and early modern capitalism?


you've obviously missed eric flint's books. not to mention the compleat enchanter by fletcher pratt and l. sprague de camp. in addition, the conan stories of robert e. howard are set in 12,000 years ago, so not in the dark ages or a 'pseudo-medieval' period. neither is tolkein's hobbit or lord of the rings set in a dark age or pseudo-medieval setting. you might in addition enjoy howard's soloman kane stories or fritz leiber's swords series.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2012)

Ian Watson 'The Coming of Vertumnus'

modern day setting, short story collection. Theres one short piece set in Daventry but don't let that put you off


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## butchersapron (Jun 19, 2012)

Alisdair Gray i suppose.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2012)

Also wrt the Gaiman recc, I'd go for American Gods first, its his best work imo, cept for the sandman graphic novels.

There is also Kushiels Dart which is set in alternate 18th century france. Bit heavy on the soft porn but still worth it


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## Idaho (Jun 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> That's science fiction. History of science fiction.


 
I'd disagree. But that's another thread.


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## Santino (Jun 19, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> neither is tolkein's hobbit or lord of the rings set in a dark age or pseudo-medieval setting.


Clearly it is.


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## Santino (Jun 19, 2012)

It seems that once authors get out the traditional fantasy setting, they often rely on alternate versions of reality instead of completely made-up worlds.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> Clearly it is.


describe this pseudo-medieval society, then, a society with no obvious religion (unlike europe and environs in the dark and middle ages), with no feudal means of production (unlike europe and environs in the dark and middle ages); in fact, there's very little of the famous triparite structure of medieval society in the books. like the conan stories i referred to, both the lord of the rings and the hobbit are set in the dim and distant past of our world, well before, er, the middle and dark ages. see, for example, the opening section of the hobbit where tolkein says you don't see hobbits about so much anymore.


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## Dandred (Jun 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> Is there any good fantasy literature that's set in something other than a Dark Age or pseudo-medieval (usually European, but sometimes Chinese or something) setting? Like, with gunpowder and early modern capitalism?


 
Harry potter?


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## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> It seems that once authors get out the traditional fantasy setting, they often rely on alternate versions of reality instead of completely made-up worlds.


 



misread- yes often the case but it's a fucking relief from fuedalism lite. David Eddings and Ann Mcaffrey ffs


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## Santino (Jun 19, 2012)

Middle Earth has kings and swords. It's technology is almost exclusively that of the late Dark Ages or early Middle Ages. The Rohirrim are clearly based on Anglo-Saxons or Danes or something, but with added horses. They have writing but no printing. It's pseudo-medieval in atmosphere, not a fucking Marxist allegory.

The Shire exists in some sort of socio-economic micro-climate where they have a postal service and fish 'n' chip shops.


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## Quartz (Jun 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> Is there any good fantasy literature that's set in something other than a Dark Age or pseudo-medieval (usually European, but sometimes Chinese or something) setting? Like, with gunpowder and early modern capitalism?


 
How about the Dresden series - magician gumshoe in the modern world?


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## Greebo (Jun 19, 2012)

Karen Armstrong - werewolves, witches etc, set in contemporary Canada and the USA.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> Is there any good fantasy literature that's set in something other than a Dark Age or pseudo-medieval (usually European, but sometimes Chinese or something) setting? Like, with gunpowder and early modern capitalism?


 
Harry Turtledove's Videssos Cycle for Graeco-Roman-ish.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2012)

QueenOfGoths said:


> "The House of Storms" Iain R. MacLeod - though it borders sci-fi/fantasy. Victorian, industrial and early capitalism are all in there though tbh though I enjoyed the ideas in the book I did find the execution a little dull
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-House-Storms-Ian-MacLeod/dp/0743256727


 
Tim Powers' "The Anubis Gate" is quite good. A smidgeon of Victorian steam-punkery to leaven the fantasy/magickal elements.


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## Quartz (Jun 19, 2012)

Harry Turtledove's Agent of Byzantium is set in a world where there were no Dark Ages.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Tim Powers' "The Anubis Gate" is quite good. A smidgeon of Victorian steam-punkery to leaven the fantasy/magickal elements.


his 'declare' is quite good too, and i very much enjoyed his 'fevre dream'


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> his 'declare' is quite good too, and i very much enjoyed his 'fevre dream'


 
Hah, haven't read "Declare" (puts it on list)!  I read "On Stranger Tides" about 25 years ago (way before it was butchered to become a "Pirates of the Caribbean" story!  ), and have read others since then (particularly liked "The Stress of Her Regard") .


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## Stigmata (Jun 19, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> his 'declare' is quite good too, and i very much enjoyed his 'fevre dream'


 
George RR Martin of Game of Thrones fame wrote Fevre Dream. Unless there's another book of the same name.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> George RR Martin of Game of Thrones fame wrote Fevre Dream. Unless there's another book of the same name.


you're right. my mistake.


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## JimW (Jun 19, 2012)

There was all that 'Clan of the Cave Bear' stuff. Never read it and impression was it's pretty dire, but pre-Middle Ages AFAIK.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2012)

I'll give a tentative shout for Robert Silverburgs 'Roma Aeturnum' which is a series of short stories set in a world where Rome snuffed Christianity and Islam in their infancy. And won in africa. I suppose it would fall into alt.  history and is from a skiffy author but it is worth your time


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2012)

Quartz said:


> Harry Turtledove's Agent of Byzantium is set in a world where there were no Dark Ages.


 
The smallpox epidemic scenes in that brought a lump to my throat the first time I read it.


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## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2012)

there's a great series - i forget what its called now - set in a roman empire that lasted up until today.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> there's a great series - i forget what its called now - set in a roman empire that lasted up until today.


more than one i think you'll find


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## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2012)

i cant even remember what its called  it's written by a woman tho and came out in the last couple of years.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i cant even remember what its called  it's written by a woman tho and came out in the last couple of years.


you'll have to do better than that


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## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2012)

i no


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## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i no


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## Cid (Jun 20, 2012)

Are you sure it's not written by a certain Robert Silverberg?


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## Santino (Jun 20, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i cant even remember what its called  it's written by a woman tho and came out in the last couple of years.


First one was called Romanitas. Started it and abandoned it. I think some characters had magic powers, which is one too many 'things' for me. I also thought the historical development was poor.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2012)

Cid said:


> Are you sure it's not written by a certain Robert Silverberg?


 

deffo not. Silverburgs roman adventure is brilliant, he kills off mo in a causal manner. sacridelicious.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 20, 2012)

JimW said:


> There was all that 'Clan of the Cave Bear' stuff. Never read it and impression was it's pretty dire, but pre-Middle Ages AFAIK.


 
Not fantasty. Historical fiction. First two books have enough well researched science and period detail to commend them - but after that it descends into Ugg and Grug meets Mills and Boon/Wank fantasy; handsome dark skinned cave man with an enourmous throbbing manhood make our heorine quiver - but what about her feelings for the tall handsome, blonde, blue eyed caveman with _his_ enourmous throbbing manhood.


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## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2012)

Santino said:


> First one was called Romanitas. Started it and abandoned it. I think some characters had magic powers, which is one too many 'things' for me. I also thought the historical development was poor.


 
yer this is it i think.


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## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2012)

to be fair it's been a good couple years since i read it, and not being familiar with that genre, i was impressed 

an example of a fantasy book that started off well and went shit? Angelology


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## rubbershoes (Jun 20, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Alisdair Gray i suppose.


 

This

Try _A history maker_ as a good starter


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## krtek a houby (Jun 20, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> George RR Martin of Game of Thrones fame wrote Fevre Dream. Unless there's another book of the same name.


 
He sure did. I remember it being reviewed in Starburst at the time & wanting to get it. Completely forgot about it until recently (was mentioned in the appendix to Kim Newman's vampire epic Anno Dracula) & saw it in the charity shop the other day but was in shit condition and the print is too small for my eyes.

Anyways, I recommend said Anno Dracula, set in Victorian London and a collision of lots of literary characters, pre dating Alan Moore's LoEG by about a decade, I reckons.


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## Santino (Jun 20, 2012)

So, what I'm hearing is that nearly every example of non-pseudo-medieval fantasy is set in an alternate Earth of some description.

Right, that's it. I'm starting on a new Game of Thrones-style epic, but with an early modern-style setting. PM me if you want to collaborate. Dottie, this means you.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm actually astonished that you find the non-trad tolkienesque  fantasy fiction to be...fantasy versions of other epochs.

How did you imagine it going, a complete new world- try Aldiss 'Helluiconia' cycle.is sci fi though. sort of. also Malacia Tapestry.

how do you imagine a non trad fantasy setting that isn't veering into 'mundane' sci fi would go?


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## Santino (Jun 20, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm actually astonished that you find the non-trad tolkienesque fantasy fiction to be...fantasy versions of other epochs.


My point is there are no (or almost no) fantasy versions of other epochs. Most non-medieval fantasy seems to be set on Earth. The actual Earth (albeit with a changed history), not an Earth-like planet. Where's the 17th century equivalent of Westeros? Where are the Elven bronze age empires?

I think a baroque fantasy world could be awesome. Elven riflemen square off against dwarf grenadiers. Orc pikemen are cannon fodder for privileged autocrats battling puritan radicals.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2012)

the nameless marksmen had rifles worked in script unknown to us. They spoke traders tongue and were running, an albino troop with pinpoint accuracy and filed teeth

God save us from what mde such men run

etc. I'll get back to you on this cos you are wrong but I have not the time to explain why


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## JimW (Jun 20, 2012)

Santino said:


> My point is there are no (or almost no) fantasy versions of other epochs. Most non-medieval fantasy seems to be set on Earth. The actual Earth (albeit with a changed history), not an Earth-like planet. Where's the 17th century equivalent of Westeros? Where are the Elven bronze age empires?
> 
> I think a baroque fantasy world could be awesome. Elven riflemen square off against dwarf grenadiers. Orc pikemen are cannon fodder for privileged autocrats battling puritan radicals.


What about Philip Pullman and his polar bear kingdoms etc?


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## Santino (Jun 20, 2012)

JimW said:


> What about Philip Pullman and his polar bear kingdoms etc?


It's still Earth.


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## JimW (Jun 20, 2012)

The Archipelago in Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea is not medieval Europe either, is it? Most people non-white and those that are (Tombs of Atuan lot IIRC) not medieval Euro cultures. Magic based on Taoist stuff, at least in part.


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## JimW (Jun 20, 2012)

Santino said:


> It's still Earth.


So you're after Warhammer 40k?


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## Santino (Jun 20, 2012)

JimW said:


> The Archipelago in Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea is not medieval Europe either, is it? Most people non-white and those that are (Tombs of Atuan lot IIRC) not medieval Euro cultures. Magic based on Taoist stuff, at least in part.


I think there are a few East Asian-set fantasies knocking around. Still medieval in technology and flavour though.

The Otori books are set in a fantasy Japan, but the subtle references to Christianity suggest it may still be an alternate Earth.


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## Santino (Jun 20, 2012)

JimW said:


> So you're after Warhammer 40k?


Warhammer 40k is still based in our universe. You're thinking of Warhammer Fantasy.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2012)

JimW said:


> What about Philip Pullman and his polar bear kingdoms etc?


liberal let down ennit


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## JimW (Jun 20, 2012)

Santino said:


> ... Still medieval in technology and flavour though...


 
Can't argue with that. Nothing else coming to mind in the vein you want.


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## JimW (Jun 20, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> liberal let down ennit


I had someone on at me for ages to give them a try, started off and I thought it really was going to be another sub Billy Bunter public school type thing with her at alter-Oxford, but first book was OK, then seem to remember it tailing off.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2012)

Subtle Knife is well worth the time. He sells out later.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2012)

although I do have to give thmbs up to a man who worked armoured sentient bears into the take. Fair nuff that man


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## Santino (Jun 20, 2012)

Part 3 makes no sense at all.


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## JimW (Jun 20, 2012)

Santino said:


> Part 3 makes no sense at all.


Felt like him having the argument he never dared with his Sunday School teacher, as I recall.


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## hiccup (Jun 20, 2012)

I haven't read it, just stumbled across it, but it made me think of this thread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little,_Big


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## Greebo (Jun 20, 2012)

Kim Harrison's series (beginning with "The good, the bad and the undead") are set in an alternate world where supernatural beings have been "outed" by a virus, and they have to police their own. Set in modern day Cincinnati, Ohio (with occasional vanilla hetero and lesbian sex).


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## ericjarvis (Jun 20, 2012)

Santino said:


> Is there any good fantasy literature that's set in something other than a Dark Age or pseudo-medieval (usually European, but sometimes Chinese or something) setting? Like, with gunpowder and early modern capitalism?



Secrets Of Jin Shei by Alma Alexander, which is a lovely little novel with an Oriental setting.

Left To His Own Devices by Mary Gentle, which is a sort of fantasy/cyberpunk hybrid, probably best read as part of The White Crow Omnibus, which has the same leading characters in different settings.


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## krtek a houby (Jun 20, 2012)

Ian McDonald's Brasyl is quite adventorous, taking in 17th century Brazil, modern day and the future. It's got quantum knives, jesuits and disgraced footballers, too.


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## golightly (Jun 20, 2012)

Pavane - Keith Roberts - Steam-driven alternate world
The Alteration - Kingsley Amis - Alternate world where the reformation never happened
The Bridge - Iain Banks - Fantasy set on a bridge that does not seem to end
Anno Dracula - Kim Newman - Dracula survived and married Queen Victoria
Gloriana- Michael Moorcock - A fantasy where Elizabethan England is a superpower


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## butcher (Jun 20, 2012)

Also the Blood Trilogy by Moorcock:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/399399.Blood

or Gene Wolfes amazingly good Urth of the New Sun / Book of the New Sun series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Urth_of_the_New_Sun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shadow_of_the_Torturer


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## Greebo (Jun 20, 2012)

golightly said:


> Pavane - Keith Roberts - Steam-driven alternate world<snip>


I'd second that one.


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## Epona (Jun 21, 2012)

JimW said:


> There was all that 'Clan of the Cave Bear' stuff. Never read it and impression was it's pretty dire, but pre-Middle Ages AFAIK.


 
If you've never read it, then you're in no position to give an opinion on it.

Yes there was a bit of erotica in there (I won't say Mill's & Boone as another poster mentioned, because I've never read any M&B and don't know what it involves), but at its core COTCB was extremely well researched in every aspect and set out a world as it might have been in the upper paleolithic, which as an archaeologist I find absolutely fascinating - although of course with the era being so distant from ours and with no written records you have to take a certain amount of it as conjecture, the author did incorporate archaeological findings into her work and based some of her characters on the evidence that real archaeology provided.  Of course without written records of that era, I am sure much of it is incorrect, it's just conjecture - and since the first book came out in 1977, some of that conjecture has been proven incorrect.  But that doesn't negate the huge effort put into researching and creating a slice of upper-paleolithic life that was full of detail and description about the possible societies and technologies of that era.

Even though it is set in pre-history, it absolutely counts as a "historical" series of novels.  And yes it's pre-Middle Ages by about 25,000 years.


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## JimW (Jun 21, 2012)

Epona said:


> If you've never read it, then you're in no position to give an opinion on it.


Didn't realise your mum had written it!  That's why I said I hadn't read it, so OP knew I was reporting second hand opinions.


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## Gromit (Jun 21, 2012)

Has anyone mentioned Stephen King's Dark Tower series?


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## Greebo (Jun 21, 2012)

Gromit said:


> Has anyone mentioned Stephen King's Dark Tower series?


You have now.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2012)

Gromit said:


> Has anyone mentioned Stephen King's Dark Tower series?


 

maybe they have, on another thread to do with post-apocalypse far future novels


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## barney_pig (Jun 22, 2012)

Pratchett and Gaiman's good omens


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## Greebo (Jun 22, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Pratchett and Gaiman's good omens


Oh yes.  Who could forget the bit about the route of the M25 being subtly altered so that traffic going around it constantly grinds out lowgrade misery?  Or the bit about everyone (apart from Casanova) ending up having a breakfast of black unsweetened coffee after waking up in a bed that isn't their own?


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## campanula (Jun 22, 2012)

CJ Cherry and Sherry Tepper have both written some good non-medieval fantasy (Cherry's Morgaine, Faded Sun and Paladin are all good- must recommend Teppers 'Grass' and early True Game books. Mary Gentle's Ash and Illario, although somewhat medieval, do emerge into present day (wondered if this was what Frogwoman was referring to) but never got on with the Casaubon, architects of desire books.
Um, struggling here as I tend to avoid horses and swords unless there is great characterisation (George Martin, STAND DOWN, you ignorant fuckwit - although I did read the whole series, getting increasingly annoyed at the general adolescent tone). Am finding the categories fantasy and SF are getting increasingly blurred (but prolly only in my mind) and am desparate for a good summer epc (Dotty, help!!! I stumbled on the Malazan series entirely on your say so and am now needing more).
Have struggled through some utter shite of late and being currently unemployed and skint, I cannot afford to take chances even at the charity shops.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2012)

have you read ian cameron esselmonts three additions to the Book of the Fallen yet?

if not, do so. Return of the Crimson Guard is suitably twisty and dark but the shorter novel 'Night of Knives' is far more rewarding in terms of immediacy and backplotting.

Stonewielder is also good, Greymane as an ascendant of Burn, who knew? Thought she had herself amply served by Caladan Brood on that front


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2012)

campanula said:


> CJ Cherry


 
<pedant>Cherry*h*</pedant>



> and Sherry Tepper have both written some good non-medieval fantasy (Cherry's Morgaine, Faded Sun and Paladin are all good- must recommend Teppers 'Grass' and early True Game books.


 
Tepper's "The Gate to Women's Country" is good, as are "Blood Heritage" and "The Bones", which are modern-day supernatural fantasy.


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## Random (Jun 22, 2012)

Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell isn't feudal, but is Earth. Recommend it.


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## Random (Jun 22, 2012)

I've been trying to write a fantasy book set on a non-earth planet and with non-feudal societies, but so far I keep having the problem that all my characters are boring little shits.


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## campanula (Jun 22, 2012)

dotty, really? I do keep seeing them (esslemont's) at my local Forbidden Planet but, you know, I really, really enjoyed the Erikson books and feared that these might be second rate fan stuff - also I did not much like the necromancers Bauchelain  and summat - see I can't remember their names .
yes alright (sigh) cj cherryh (top author apart from the tedious and endless Inheritor series). Tepper has gone off the boil a bit too.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2012)

ian cameron and steven both collaborated on the malazan world before they even had written a novel. He is so not fanfic- he was in at the ground floor when they were both students at a writers college of some prestige in yankee land (idaho? i'll look it up later)

it is as much his baby as it is stevens, and although he is not quite the calibre of writer that Erickson is his stuff is still very reaable, very entertaining. You may see what I mean when you read his stuff, he may not be as subtle but heclearly has a strong authorial voice, he clearly has a brilliant grasp of the universe he co-created and is worth your money. Or worth the time it takes to download 'stanza' and then torrent the ebook. I paid for all of ericksons ones and paid for 'night of knives' as well. 60% hardbacks as well, so little guilt about torrenting 'Crippled gode' and Stoneweilder'


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## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2012)

korbal broach btw, and those shorts are the whimsyier leanings of Erikson, so yer- not exactly in depth


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## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2012)

Random said:


> Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell isn't feudal, but is Earth. Recommend it.


I have already mentioned this book, and will also now metion 'Ladies of Grace Audie' by the same author, set in the same world.

if you are reading tempah I will get round to giving you that one back. Eventually.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 22, 2012)

Random said:


> I've been trying to write a fantasy book set on a non-earth planet and with non-feudal societies, but so far I keep having the problem that all my characters are boring little shits.


i'm reminded of that famous saying of a workman and his tools.


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## Random (Jun 22, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm reminded of that famous saying of a workman and his tools.


What's the saying?

Edit: my characters are clearly not my tools


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## Pickman's model (Jun 22, 2012)

Random said:


> What's the saying?
> 
> Edit: my characters are clearly not my tools


a bad workman blames his tools 

the situation's not precisely the same but it is analagous.


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## Random (Jun 22, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> a bad workman blames his tools


My characters are my own creation. My characters being boring, reflects the fact that I'm not very good at writing fiction. That was my original point.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 22, 2012)

Random said:


> My characters are my own creation. My characters being boring, reflects the fact that I'm not very good at writing fiction. That was my original point.


if at first you don't succeed give it another try then go down the boozer.


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## campanula (Jun 22, 2012)

OK, F.Planet it is. Any particular order?
STILL waiting for Republic of Thieves -Scott Lynch - this has got to be the longest wait for a sequel - good job most SF and Fantasy readers are fervent.
A writing college - I kinda imagined many long evenings playing D&D but perhaps I am showing my age.


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## mentalchik (Jun 22, 2012)

campanula said:


> CJ Cherry and Sherry Tepper have both written some good non-medieval fantasy (Cherry's Morgaine, Faded Sun and Paladin are all good- must recommend* Teppers 'Grass'*


 
Grass, Raising The Stones and Sideshow (the arbai trilogy) are amonst my favourite books......


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## quimcunx (Jun 22, 2012)

Santino said:


> So, what I'm hearing is that nearly every example of non-pseudo-medieval fantasy is set in an alternate Earth of some description.
> 
> Right, that's it. I'm starting on a new Game of Thrones-style epic, but with an early modern-style setting. PM me if you want to collaborate. Dottie, this means you.


 
 Dottie?  And after we worked so well together on our noir detective series.


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## felixthecat (Jun 22, 2012)

Watching this thread cos the daughter likes this sort of stuff.

If its any help, she loved Rivers of London and Moon over Soho by Ben Aaronovitch and Anno Dracula but someone whose name I can't remember


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## Bernie Gunther (Jun 22, 2012)

Roger Zelazny wrote a number of fantasy classics back in the 60's.

The best known these days are probably the Amber books, which cover a range of imaginary worlds, some medieval-ish, some not so much so. I seem to recall that he was influenced in writing them by Philip Jose Farmer's 'World of Tiers' stuff (which would also fit the bill of 'non-medieval fantasy') but for my money Zelazny raises the bar a fair bit, not least with the Chandler-esque voice of his protagonist. In some ways I'd say, at least in the earlier books, that Amber is a precursor to all the 'fantasy-noir' stuff that's getting so popular these days.

The Zelazny novel I'd most strongly suggest in this context though is 'Lord of Light', which uses 60's acid-pop Hinduism overlaid on what the golden age SF mags called 'planetary romance' by way of Erich Von Daniken and a little bit of Pauwels/Bergier.

Stunningly original in its day, I can't really think of anything else that you can compare it to.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2012)

campanula said:


> OK, F.Planet it is. Any particular order?
> STILL waiting for Republic of Thieves -Scott Lynch - this has got to be the longest wait for a sequel - good job most SF and Fantasy readers are fervent.
> A writing college - I kinda imagined many long evenings playing D&D but perhaps I am showing my age.


yeh, do night of knives then return of the crimson guard then stonweilder.

it won't cause th universe to implode should you read the novels out of sequence but they run better as a series. Wherever did leoman of the flails get to.....


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## campanula (Jun 23, 2012)

mentalchik said:


> Grass, Raising The Stones and Sideshow (the arbai trilogy) are amonst my favourite books......


yeah, but after Beauty (unreadable pap) she sort of got on a femme/eco trip - being loyal, I kept buying but by the Companions and The Margarets, even I had had enough. I absolutely loved the True Game stuff with demesnes and Talents and pursuivants and amourers and the like - mind, I was very young when I read them (there are lots)
Have you tried Joan Sloncjewski, Door into Ocean?


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## campanula (Jun 23, 2012)

thinking my spelling might be dodgy here (waiting for the inevitable pedant)


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2012)

butcher said:


> Also the Blood Trilogy by Moorcock:
> http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/399399.Blood
> 
> or Gene Wolfes amazingly good Urth of the New Sun / Book of the New Sun series:
> ...


Claw of the Concillator ftw

I like severian a lot. Get the feeling he is an unreliable narrator, but regardless he has a sword that isn't pointed, as executiones swords do not require a point. Terminus Est. As fantasy weapons go its a fave of mine. Was gutted when he broke the thing.


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## ericjarvis (Jun 23, 2012)

Thought of another one. Ysabel by Guy Gavriel Kay. A combination of contemporary Provence and Celtic mythology.


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## butcher (Jun 23, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Claw of the Concillator ftw
> 
> I like severian a lot. Get the feeling he is an unreliable narrator, but regardless he has a sword that isn't pointed, as executiones swords do not require a point. Terminus Est. As fantasy weapons go its a fave of mine. Was gutted when he broke the thing.


 

Have you read Urth of the New Sun, it is very interesting and is different but similar to the rest os the series.

The character of Severian (or his self) remains true, but the sequel is seems more 'personal' than  the other books.

Urth is full of (intentional) and blatant kabbalistic motifs, none of which impinge on the story or jar with the flow of the story.

BTW there is a nice executioners sword in the Fiztwilliam museum at Cambridge with a blunt point (free entry to all, Citizen  ).

I have tried his other books but they don't seem to grab me, but the Urth/New sun series have stood up to re-reading several times over 25+ years..........


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2012)

I read calde of the long sun many years ago. Was entirely bewildered cos of the mech/human thing. The whorland that, forgotten altars that are screens used by humans to talk to AI's. All very disjointed  as these things usually are hen you read out of sequence. If you have not had the pleasure look up 'fifth head of cerebus' by our gene. Is quite enchanting


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2012)

aye looked up exectioners swords after reading Wolfe. a hunnish practise apparently lol


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## Zabo (Jun 23, 2012)

_Omon Ra - Victor Pelevin_
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omon_Ra

Day Of The Oprichnik
_http://www.salon.com/2011/03/15/day_of_the_oprichnik_vladimir_sorokin/_


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