# Top boy: stories of Hackney's young drug dealers. Channel 4.



## Treacle Toes (Oct 9, 2011)

> Ronan Bennett spent two years interviewing gang members in east London for his powerfully personal TV drama, Top Boy. Here he describes their hidden, hopeless world – and the lengths they'll go to escape from it



Starts next Month, four part drama, Channel 4.

Article here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/09/top-boy-teenage-drug-dealers?newsfeed=true


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## sim667 (Oct 10, 2011)

Will set the recorder up for this.


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## rover07 (Oct 10, 2011)

You still have a video recorder!!!


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## chazegee (Oct 10, 2011)

Wandering through some north london estates last week. Don't often get scared, but those boys are quite rough.


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## marty21 (Oct 10, 2011)

Will be watching this , maybe I'll see my house in it


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## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2011)

marty21 said:


> Will be watching this , maybe I'll see my house in it


maybe you'll see things from your house on tv


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## marty21 (Oct 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> maybe you'll see things from your house on tv


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## cypher79 (Oct 11, 2011)

Looking forward to this.


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 29, 2011)

This Monday!


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## trevhagl (Oct 30, 2011)

about time we had something decent on TV (sez he who has umpteen DVDs still to watch)


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## stavros (Oct 30, 2011)

Sounds like it could be quite interesting, although will it inevitably get compared to the 4th series of The Wire (in my opinion the best)?


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## stethoscope (Oct 30, 2011)

Looking forward to this, although a mixed reaction to the preview in today's Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/30/top-boy-reviewed-by-hackney-residents-panel


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## sim667 (Oct 31, 2011)

rover07 said:


> You still have a video recorder!!!


No, hard disk recorder.

When does this start ??


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## Ranu (Oct 31, 2011)

sim667 said:


> No, hard disk recorder.
> 
> When does this start ??



Tonight, 10pm.


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## sim667 (Oct 31, 2011)

Ranu said:


> Tonight, 10pm.


thanks.


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## stethoscope (Oct 31, 2011)

Bump! On now.


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## Ranu (Oct 31, 2011)

Guy with the beard looks like Cutty from The Wire.


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## D'wards (Oct 31, 2011)

Its not bad so far, but not great - as mentioned above, it does feel a bit Happy Shopper s4 of the Wire.


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## D'wards (Oct 31, 2011)

Ranu said:


> Guy with the beard looks like Cutty from The Wire.


Not just looks like him...


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## Ranu (Oct 31, 2011)

D'wards said:


> Not just looks like him...



Aye, pretty much _is_ him.


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## BlackArab (Oct 31, 2011)

As soon as I saw 'Cutty' I knew he'd have a gym  Hmmm boy taking the parental role for his sick mum and turning down the drug dealers cash thus earning his respect.............

Did enjoy it though.


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## D'wards (Oct 31, 2011)

I just thought it was okay really - will inevitably suffer from Wire s4 comparisons, as it is certainly similar but not as good


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## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2011)

Good stuff, I recon. I can see why people might draw wire s4 comparisons what with it being about young black men and drug dealing but it really is a completely different social set up to baltimore.

I shall watch next weeks as well.


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## Ax^ (Nov 1, 2011)

Worth catching a repeat or is it just another programme attempting to convince people that london is like down town la


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## stethoscope (Nov 1, 2011)

I thought it was promising. Gritty and atmospheric without being intense. And retained a sense of being British and set in London rather than just feeling like a port of an American drama (although I've never seen the Wire to make that particular comparison). Not entirely convinced of all of the representations/storylines though. See how that develops.


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## stethoscope (Nov 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I shall watch next weeks as well.



It continues tonight and for the next two, just so you don't miss it


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## Bajie (Nov 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Good stuff, I recon. I can see why people might draw wire s4 comparisons what with it being about young black men and drug dealing but it really is a completely different social set up to baltimore.
> 
> I shall watch next weeks as well.



Not so much just because it is about young black men and drug dealing, but there the similarities between the Ra'Nell/Michael Lee and bloke with beard/cutty characters and setttings was very striking, even down to the scenes where Ra'Nel refuses take take the dealers money beacuse he knows they will try to manipulate him, which is the same approach the Michael Lee character took in the Wire at first and his mentally ill mother (drug addicted in the wire).

Maybe it is just coincidence, but I would be surprised if the writers of the series had not seen the wire and drawn some inspiration from it, and the story lines could be repeated realistically anywhere in the world really in those kind of social situations.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 1, 2011)

the more i watched, the less i enjoyed. it presented a shiny indistinct version of hackney that i certainly didn't recognise, the characterisation became more and more preposterous, the moral dilemmas presented didn't feel realistic or credible, it made an extremely ill-advised attempt to make it real by crow barring in a reference to the "London Fields Boys" and overall, i was quite disappointed to see what felt like a glamourisation of something which misrepresented the nature of what it purported to deal with.


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## friedaweed (Nov 1, 2011)

Ax^ said:


> Worth catching a repeat or is it just another programme attempting to convince people that london is like down town la


Dunno jury's out for one more episode  Interesting so far.


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## killer b (Nov 2, 2011)

what's the betting it finishes with the hero getting shot?


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## girasol (Nov 2, 2011)

I haven't experienced any of that in real life, but I didn't think there was any glamourisation, both episodes just made feel sad about the inevitability of getting sucked into gang life for some children...

Given that there was a lot of research done for this, it must, at least to some extent, reflect what goes on. But maybe you can never convey reality, no matter how much you research it, if you haven't lived through it yourself?

e2a: Just read the guardian review posted earlier, so some of it is accurate, some of it isn't... Still, good that dramas like this are being made.


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## ringo (Nov 2, 2011)

The similarities with The Wire story lines are killing it a bit for me. As is the inevitability of the young lad being drawn into the business he doesn't want to be involved with. So far the writing/plot isn't much above an episode of The Bill, a real lost opportunity. It just seems very predictable, but they've got two episodes left to throw something creative and well written in.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 2, 2011)

if that's the result of two year's of research, then all i can ask is who on earth he spoke to? especially given that this aims to present itself as a realistic depiction of life in hackney. because it doesn't reflect real life in any way shape or form, in my experience at least. dodgy white drug overlords who run night clubs and work out of scrap yards or taxi office, please, these were stereotypes from the 80's. two bwoys who apparently run their estate, yet they've been mugged off on home turf twice and don't even have any gun of their own (ffs, even 14 year-old boys can get a gun and shoot someone). on monday, they were running a slick street dealing operation with the young white kid, last night that wasn't seen a trace of. young black boy (who was sensible to keep away from bad bwoys on first night) suddenly decides that he'll run a mj growing operation for an unrelated white woman, for no apparent reason (her character in particular is ridiculous). utterly utterly


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## Maggot (Nov 2, 2011)

Were was this filmed? I'm sure I saw the Heygate Estate on there.


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## Ranu (Nov 2, 2011)

ringo said:


> ... but they've got two episodes left to throw something creative and well written in.



I somehow doubt that they're writing dull predictable stuff now but holding back their real talent for a big finish.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 2, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Were was this filmed? I'm sure I saw the Heygate Estate on there.


no idea, the bleached out lighting mitigates against knowing, but i certainly haven't recognised much of what i've seen (other than some long shots of ridley road market).


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## ringo (Nov 2, 2011)

Definitely Ridley Road Market last night. The long banks of parallel blocks in the opening credits etc looks just like Loughborough Estate, down here in Loughborough Juction. Some of the street/market shots in the first episode I'm pretty sure were Brixton. Seen the Heygate at least once.


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## rutabowa (Nov 2, 2011)

things like this set in the uk are always rubbish.


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## 100% masahiko (Nov 2, 2011)

I thought it was beautifully filmed and much better than kidulthood et all.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 2, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Were was this filmed? I'm sure I saw the Heygate Estate on there.


Parts of it were on the Loughborough Estate (my daughter recognised the block she grew up in) and a bit in Deptford. Doubtless elsewhere too. I haven't seen it myself.


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## marty21 (Nov 2, 2011)

ringo said:


> Definitely Ridley Road Market last night. The long banks of parallel blocks in the opening credits etc looks just like Loughborough Estate, down here in Loughborough Juction. Some of the street/market shots in the first episode I'm pretty sure were Brixton. Seen the Heygate at least once.



whenever something is filmed in Hackney they go to Ridley Road market -


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## marty21 (Nov 2, 2011)

I think a lot was filmed around the De Beauvoir estate in Hackney - off Kingsland Rd


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## rover07 (Nov 2, 2011)

It sounds like The Bill but filmed from the other side. Every week they carry out a different crime.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 2, 2011)

Just looked at the trailer. Most of that was definitely around Harris House and Secker House on the Loughborough Estate.


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## rutabowa (Nov 2, 2011)

it was trippy when they followed someone out of hackney downs station and crossed the road down an alley that is acually just a row of lockups and a dead end but on TV it goes through to another main road... that is the magic of TV, it is like Narnia.


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## Maggot (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm sure I saw the Elephant and Castle subway on there too.


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## rover07 (Nov 2, 2011)

Is there many laughs in this?

Amen!


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## rover07 (Nov 2, 2011)

Golf advert...


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## Treacle Toes (Nov 2, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> if that's the result of two year's of research, then all i can ask is who on earth he spoke to? especially given that this aims to present itself as a realistic depiction of life in hackney. because it doesn't reflect real life in any way shape or form, in my experience at least. dodgy white drug overlords who run night clubs and work out of scrap yards or taxi office, please, these were stereotypes from the 80's. two bwoys who apparently run their estate, yet they've been mugged off on home turf twice and don't even have any gun of their own (ffs, even 14 year-old boys can get a gun and shoot someone). on monday, they were running a slick street dealing operation with the young white kid, last night that wasn't seen a trace of. young black boy (who was sensible to keep away from bad bwoys on first night) suddenly decides that he'll run a mj growing operation for an unrelated white woman, for no apparent reason (her character in particular is ridiculous). utterly utterly



Gerry Jackson talked about in this article:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/09/top-boy-teenage-drug-dealers

Is very well known and has a lot of cred in the area and for his outreach work.


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## rover07 (Nov 2, 2011)

Its good, not seen previous episodes.

Why was the kid being chased?


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## Ranu (Nov 2, 2011)

rover07 said:


> Its good, not seen previous episodes.
> 
> Why was the kid being chased?



http://www.channel4.com/info/press/press-packs/top-boy-episode-1-synopsis


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## rover07 (Nov 2, 2011)

ta


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## Frances Lengel (Nov 2, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Just looked at the trailer. Most of that was definitely around Harris House and Secker House on the Loughborough Estate.


 
I prefer blocks of flats to be called "Court" rather than "house". As in I live in Pevensey Court - Idon't really, I live in Rushcroft court, but I'm not going to put my address out in the public domain.

Having said that, in Rochdale, blocks of flats don't even have names, well they do, but they're called things like "Pershore", no Pershore way, house or court, just fuckin Pershore...Makes it easier for businesses to identify & deny HP to tenants, I suppose.


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## spliff (Nov 2, 2011)

Maggot said:


> Were was this filmed? I'm sure I saw the Heygate Estate on there.


Does it matter?


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## Sir Belchalot (Nov 2, 2011)

Don't think Hackney Council allowed any of their estates to be used as locations as they didn't want to damage the reputation of the area & scare off the yuppies.


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## spliff (Nov 2, 2011)

Heh! (((((Hackney)))))


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 3, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Gerry Jackson talked about in this article:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/09/top-boy-teenage-drug-dealers
> 
> Is very well known and has a lot of cred in the area and for his outreach work.


that's written by the bloke who apparently spent 2 years researching this series. cred for what? what i see on the screen and what i see all around me are very different things. this isn't about outreach, this is about representing where you claim to represent imo. this isn't hackney, no way no how. it's a fucking glitzy tv soap, and it ain't cathy come home...


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 3, 2011)

just say, this is made up ffs


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## Treacle Toes (Nov 3, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> that's written by the bloke who apparently spent 2 years researching this series. cred for what? what i see on the screen and what i see all around me are very different things. this isn't about outreach, this is about representing where you claim to represent imo. this isn't hackney, no way no how. it's a fucking glitzy tv soap, and it ain't cathy come home...


 
It is written by someone whose main contact is a person who is well known and has cred for his outreach work in the borough at a grass roots level.

It may be representative of the Hackney you don't inhabit? I live in Hackney too however there is much of Hackney I don't inhabit because of my gender, age, job, interests etc.... You too!


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 3, 2011)

it was quite funny when they just shot that man dem thru his hed


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 3, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> It is written by someone whose main contact is a person who is well known and has cred for his outreach work in the borough at a grass roots level.
> 
> It may be representative of the Hackney you don't inhabit? I live in Hackney too however there is much of Hackney I don't inhabit because of my gender, age, job, interests etc.... You too!


i bow down to your superior contacts


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 3, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> It is written by someone whose main contact is a person who is well known and has cred for his outreach work in the borough at a grass roots level.
> 
> It may be representative of the Hackney you don't inhabit? I live in Hackney too however there is much of Hackney I don't inhabit because of my gender, age, job, interests etc.... You too!


brilliant. there are parts of hackney i don't inhabit. i bet these are the same bits your 'person' was able to see, with this special insight that actually living here can't see....get to fuck


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 3, 2011)

look, sorry, don't want a row, i'll shut up now.


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## Treacle Toes (Nov 3, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> i bow down to your superior contacts



They are not _my_ contacts Paulie.  Why are you doing this? You did the same when I posted about Dalston getting looted...you started to refer to 'your' community, even though you live in Hackney too. Why isn't it 'our' community?

Anyway...back to your point: They are the contacts the film maker has and they are well known in Hackney. No idea why you are being so arsey about this. I am not talking about a special insight, I am talking about access to the lives of people that, yourself and I don't have that much contact with despite living in Hackney.


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## magneze (Nov 3, 2011)

It's good. Well acted and all, but it's being dressed up somewhat by this "2 years to research" stuff. So far it's pretty formulaic IMO. What unique aspect to this story came out of the research?


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## Maggot (Nov 3, 2011)

spliff said:


> Does it matter?


If you live in London and recognise some areas, and think you recognise others, then it is of interest.


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## kalidarkone (Nov 3, 2011)

I really love the Brian Eno sound track and I am enjoying watching too-which has suprised me. I think I like the way the vulnerable side of some of the characters is being developed as well as how the two main top boys seem to be drifting from each other and being affected very differently (or expressing it differently) by the murders they have been involved in and how this is impacting on their lives.

I'm ignoring the real life inconsistencies, like a care package being organised in only one day for someone being discharged form a psychiatric unit seems improbable and they would know that Lisa had a child because  they would be looking at her medical records.....that would have changed the story alot.


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

It was stupid of them to kill Kamale. They had the information why risk getting caught for murder? The girlfriend is a witness to the kidnapping and his blood would be all over their van!

All over a couple of grand???

Then they go and shoot his brother with the same gun!


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## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2011)

that wasn't his brother.


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

Oh. Who was it? he was close though.


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## ringo (Nov 3, 2011)

Big improvement last night, much better, enjoyed that. Lots of Loughborough Estate in it, walking down Barrington (Levy) Road.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2011)

rover07 said:


> Oh. Who was it? he was close though.


 
They weren't related in any way- he worked for the white gangster but had been all the time feeding Kamale information.


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## trevhagl (Nov 3, 2011)

watched the first 2 and well impressed, reminds me a bit of that Kidulthood in fact i think one of the geezers was in it?


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## spliff (Nov 3, 2011)

Maggot said:


> If you live in London and recognise some areas, and think you recognise others, then it is of interest.


It's interesting yeah, but the locations are not intrinsic to the storyline.


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## ddraig (Nov 3, 2011)

would be quite risky/dodgy if it was identifiably set in certain areas/postcodes tho no?


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## marty21 (Nov 3, 2011)

rover07 said:


> It was stupid of them to kill Kamale. They had the information why risk getting caught for murder? The girlfriend is a witness to the kidnapping and his blood would be all over their van!
> 
> All over a couple of grand???
> 
> Then they go and shoot his brother with the same gun!



it was 40k wasn't it - to the cockernee dealer - plus they got cash and more gear - good result if they don't get caught - haven't seen any Police in it yet - not my experience of Hackerney


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## marty21 (Nov 3, 2011)

ddraig said:


> would be quite risky/dodgy if it was identifiably set in certain areas/postcodes tho no?


the post code stuff is real - I worked in Hackney for a while - with youth offending team - remember having to go to a meeting in another post code as their office was in the wrong post code for one of their clients


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## gaijingirl (Nov 3, 2011)

I have gone off this gradually as it has gone on.  It just feels very predictable to me (maybe it's to do The Wire?  I don't know) and I found myself not that gripped - my attention wandering.

The students in my school have really latched on to it - I was listening to a conversation between a group just a year or so older than the two young lads.  Those who tend to get in fights and be a bit naughty - talk the talk - at school loved it.  Another young, very good student said.. "I don't like it, it just perpetuates that kind of negative image of black people".


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## marty21 (Nov 3, 2011)

where is my food ?


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## ddraig (Nov 3, 2011)

marty21 said:


> the post code stuff is real - I worked in Hackney for a while - with youth offending team - remember having to go to a meeting in another post code as their office was in the wrong post code for one of their clients


yes, that is what i was trying to say like


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## ddraig (Nov 3, 2011)

marty21 said:


> it was 40k wasn't it - to the cockernee dealer - plus they got cash and more gear - good result if they don't get caught - haven't seen any Police in it yet - not my experience of Hackerney


handy it all fitted in the bag init!
and yeah, no plod, no sirens - which was picked on by a group of locals they showed it to


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## pennimania (Nov 3, 2011)

I agree about the unrealistic mental health storyline - but also I actually find it boring.

I only started watching it because it was supposedly set in Hackney, in which I lived for 25 years.  I never much like drug dealing/gangster type stuff wherever it's set. It doesn't ring true to any aspect of my experience of the place so has lost any appeal it might have had.

have given up on it now.


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## girasol (Nov 3, 2011)

who killed his dog?  The only person who knew about the hideout was that girl who taught him how to hide drugs in his mouth


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## zenie (Nov 3, 2011)

girasol said:


> who killed his dog? The only person who knew about the hideout was that girl who taught him how to hide drugs in his mouth



I thought that


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## Idaho (Nov 3, 2011)

Watched the first one last night and I would like to echo all the other "enjoyed it but it was a Wire-ripoff full of geographical continuity errors" sentiment.


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## purenarcotic (Nov 3, 2011)

I haven't yet watched it because the adverts look like some awful cliche out of Kidulthood.

Oh look, they live on a council estate.  Oh look, they sell drugs.  Oh look, they're black as well!

I appreciate that all cliches have an element of truth, but I'm bored of watching the same old story retold with a newer version of trainers.

Am I being unfair though?  Is it worth giving a try?


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## rutabowa (Nov 3, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> Am I being unfair though? Is it worth giving a try?


I think you're not being unfair.


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## marty21 (Nov 3, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> I haven't yet watched it because the adverts look like some awful cliche out of Kidulthood.
> 
> Oh look, they live on a council estate. Oh look, they sell drugs. Oh look, they're black as well!
> 
> ...


no way is it as bad as kidulthood - it isn't too bad at all really - lead character is quite convincing - understated - his mate is a bit over the top, but then there are plenty of over the top people tbf


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## girasol (Nov 3, 2011)

I think the characters are good, it's what's keeping me watching.  Especially the mum, come to think of it.


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

ok bruv, where's the food?


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

He's behind you!


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

Ra'nell's a bit dumb, why risk everything for an extra £5000. The deal with the Vietnamese guy was sorted.


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

Thats nice, everyones happy.


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## marty21 (Nov 3, 2011)

rover07 said:


> Ra'nell's a bit dumb, why risk everything for an extra £5000. The deal with the Vietnamese guy was sorted.


more than that, vietnamese guy offered £3k, they got £20k off Top Boy


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

marty21 said:


> more than that, vietnamese guy offered £3k, they got £20k off Top Boy



£3k per kilo =£15k


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## marty21 (Nov 3, 2011)

thought the last episode was excellent - kept changing direction, you'd think something was going to happen and something else did - a bit  in parts- very tense in parts -


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## marty21 (Nov 3, 2011)

rover07 said:


> £3k per kilo =£15k


I bow to your better knowledge


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## rover07 (Nov 3, 2011)

The moral of the story is if you see kids getting beaten by local gangs. 

Walk on by, cause they are all dealing drugs anyway.


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## ddraig (Nov 3, 2011)

marty21 said:


> thought the last episode was excellent - kept changing direction, you'd think something was going to happen and something else did - a bit  in parts- very tense in parts -


agree with that
overall was good in ways and a bit stereotypical in others
guess we're not really used to dramas like this with so many main black characters


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## Treacle Toes (Nov 3, 2011)

> *Gang busters: meet the ex-gangsters bent on saving troubled kids*
> 
> I will stab you because I want to," says Gavin McKenna coolly, fixing me with his stare. "It's not the fact that I need to. But I want to stab you. I'd get a joy out of it. Fighting, to me, is cool. I like the enjoyment of getting home with a black eye and knowing I beat the crap out of you."
> 
> ...


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifes...-ex-gangsters-bent-on-saving-troubled-kids.do

I have a lot of respect for the work of both Camilla of Kids Company and Sheldon of TAG. I am glad this issue is being talked about and hope other papers/media pick it up. I sincerely hope that individuals like these are being called on to advise on the government's strategy.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 4, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> They are not _my_ contacts Paulie.  Why are you doing this? You did the same when I posted about Dalston getting looted...you started to refer to 'your' community, even though you live in Hackney too. Why isn't it 'our' community?
> 
> Anyway...back to your point: They are the contacts the film maker has and they are well known in Hackney. No idea why you are being so arsey about this. I am not talking about a special insight, I am talking about access to the lives of people that, yourself and I don't have that much contact with despite living in Hackney.


speak for yourself, i have quite a lot of contact with people (as do you i would imagine)

this is fiction, pure and simple, and what got my goat is pretending this is in any way representative. they don't even speak like the kids in hackney tbf.

(btw you posted about some nonsense about dalston getting looted when it wasn't, which led to me making any kind of comment. it certainly wasn't intended to be divisive or abusive. hey ho, _our community_ eh..... )


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## rover07 (Nov 4, 2011)

What happened to Kamale's gang last night? The previous episode ended with one of Dushane's lot getting stabbed (reducing them to 3 adults and 3 children)  and a threat that they were coming after Scully and Dushane.

Then ...nothing. The whole thing was barely mentioned. Did they just give up? Maybe they had even less members than Dushane.


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## Treacle Toes (Nov 4, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> (btw you posted about some nonsense about dalston getting looted when it wasn't, which led to me making any kind of comment. it certainly wasn't intended to be divisive or abusive. hey ho, _our community_ eh..... )



Correction...I posted that it was being tweeted that Dalston was being looted. Low and behold a couple of shops in the shopping centre were looted. So no, not nonsense.Your accusation was something along the lines of me stigmatising my community. That pissed me off because you live here too so why is it just 'my' community.

On this thread, you have taken umbrage to me telling you a bit about the reputation of Gerry Thomas, he is known and respected by many grass roots Social Workers, youth services/workers etc...I am not disagreeing with your take on the programme. You can of course have your opinion, as you have.I was just informing you that the film maker did have a _credible_ links and suggested that 'we' don't necessarily move in the circles this kind of programme portrays.

Other people that know all about the situation with gang banging etc and are respected for their work (Camila and Sheldon) are quoted in the article I posted above.



> speak for yourself, i have quite a lot of contact with people *(as do you i would imagine*)



Of course I do. I don't however have much to do with gang banging and teenage drug dealers. I see the edges of it mostly through my contact with youth workers, parents and some children who are being affected by the issues explored in this programme.

I can't give details, I am sure you understand that.


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## rover07 (Nov 4, 2011)

Why did the Vietnamese grower decide to do business with Gem and the girl? He was wary of that idiot Ra'nell and with good reason, he nicked his other crop and got someone murdered practically on the doorstep of the other farm!


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## cypher79 (Nov 4, 2011)

Thought this was pretty shit tbh. Looked promising, but failed to deliver.

Wish i would have just watched Bullet Boy instead and saved myself a few hours.


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## friedaweed (Nov 4, 2011)

rover07 said:


> What happened to Kamale's gang last night? The previous episode ended with one of Dushane's lot getting stabbed (reducing them to 3 adults and 3 children) and a threat that they were coming after Scully and Dushane.
> 
> Then ...nothing. The whole thing was barely mentioned. Did they just give up? Maybe they had even less members than Dushane.


Innit blud


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## friedaweed (Nov 4, 2011)

cypher79 said:


> Thought this was pretty shit tbh. Looked promising, but failed to deliver.


Yup


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## Stash (Nov 4, 2011)

rover07 said:


> What happened to Kamale's gang last night? The previous episode ended with one of Dushane's lot getting stabbed (reducing them to 3 adults and 3 children) and a threat that they were coming after Scully and Dushane.
> 
> Then ...nothing. The whole thing was barely mentioned. Did they just give up? Maybe they had even less members than Dushane.


Well the real London Fields Boys would have responded by murdering an innocent fourteen year old with a tenuous connection to their adversary. Or indiscriminately shooting up a chicken shop in their adversary's neighbourhood, and tough shit if you happen to be in the way .


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## marty21 (Nov 4, 2011)

Stash said:


> Well the real London Fields Boys would have responded by murdering an innocent fourteen year old with a tenuous connection to their adversary. Or indiscriminately shooting up a chicken shop in their adversary's neighbourhood, and tough shit if you happen to be in the way .


Pembury Boyz pwn London Fields Boys


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## ddraig (Nov 4, 2011)

an interesting review and comment on this kind of program
http://soul14pages.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/channel-fourstop-boy/


> There were other bits to the story – inter-gang rivalry, snitching, shooting, stabbing, beatings, dog murder/dog obssession, young love, bullying, teacher abuse, lying, cheating – the usual hood drama and it was all very realistic…well until part three and kinda four when it felt like I was watching *The Wire,* *Casino *and *Friday *all rolled into one (writers got a bit lazy me-thinks). Overall though, *Top Boy *did well because it featured a prominent WELL-acting black cast. It gave a platform to unknown actors and actresses. It was shot beautifully and, and…and…that’s all I can say because the bigger picture lead me to ask the question WHY?
> 
> Why was *Top Boy *made? What was it’s point? What did it achieve? Why now?


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## ringo (Nov 5, 2011)

ddraig said:


> Why was *Top Boy *made? What was it’s point? What did it achieve? Why now?



Whatever ideals the makers might claim, and I'm not sure I've seen much tbh, it was nothing more than entertainment. Begs the question what could they have done to make it achieve anything?

If the bad boys had all been locked up and shot it might have some claim for morality, but we probably would have written it off as predictable. If the bad boys had all won there would have been claims of glorifying violence and promoting bad boy behaviour.

Should we just accept that a prime time drama can be entertainment without attempting to achieve anything? What goes to the heart of this discussion is that it was a drama about violent young black men committing violence on other young black men. A huge issue for our country and a highly charged subject, but it was a just a TV programme, complaining that it didn't challenge enough issues or create enough debate seems a bit futile.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2011)

I tell you what though it certainly pisses all over that hip-hop musical set in brummie land last year. God that was fucking waste.


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## TruXta (Nov 5, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I tell you what though it certainly pisses all over that hip-hop musical set in brummie land last year. God that was fucking waste.



Who were you?


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 5, 2011)

ringo said:


> Whatever ideals the makers might claim, and I'm not sure I've seen much tbh, it was nothing more than entertainment. Begs the question what could they have done to make it achieve anything?
> 
> If the bad boys had all been locked up and shot it might have some claim for morality, but we probably would have written it off as predictable. If the bad boys had all won there would have been claims of glorifying violence and promoting bad boy behaviour.
> 
> Should we just accept that a prime time drama can be entertainment without attempting to achieve anything? What goes to the heart of this discussion is that it was a drama about violent young black men committing violence on other young black men. A huge issue for our country and a highly charged subject, but it was a just a TV programme, complaining that it didn't challenge enough issues or create enough debate seems a bit futile.


I dunno, if you're going to tackle something like that, it's got to be more than entertainment, doesn't it? Otherwise it's just voyeurism and schaden freude.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 5, 2011)

tbh, by ommitting the state/the media/the wider community almost entirely, the programme not only made itself utterly pointless, but totally improbable as well. I mean there were, what, 4 murders one one estate in one borough, in a week? That's something like a 3rd of the whole borough's annual murder rate in one week, and there's no newspaper stories, no beefed up police presence, no nothing!


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## ddraig (Nov 5, 2011)

ringo said:


> Whatever ideals the makers might claim, and I'm not sure I've seen much tbh, it was nothing more than entertainment. Begs the question what could they have done to make it achieve anything?
> 
> If the bad boys had all been locked up and shot it might have some claim for morality, but we probably would have written it off as predictable. If the bad boys had all won there would have been claims of glorifying violence and promoting bad boy behaviour.
> 
> Should we just accept that a prime time drama can be entertainment without attempting to achieve anything? What goes to the heart of this discussion is that it was a drama about violent young black men committing violence on other young black men. A huge issue for our country and a highly charged subject, but it was a just a TV programme, complaining that it didn't challenge enough issues or create enough debate seems a bit futile.


i agree and as i said before, we are just not used to it
the writer of that review i've linked is slightly self confessed bitter for not getting the breaks themselves


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## grit (Nov 5, 2011)

rover07 said:


> Ra'nell's a bit dumb, why risk everything for an extra £5000. The deal with the Vietnamese guy was sorted.



The woman said she needed the 20k for the deposit, thats why the change of plan.


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## teahead (Nov 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> tbh, by ommitting the state/the media/the wider community almost entirely, the programme not only made itself utterly pointless, but totally improbable as well. I mean there were, what, 4 murders one one estate in one borough, in a week? That's something like a 3rd of the whole borough's annual murder rate in one week, and there's no newspaper stories, no beefed up police presence, no nothing!


Yep. Though maybe part of the problem is that TV's often pretty basic about needing good/bad guys. Maybe one reason why The Wire worked better is because it spread its story over so many episodes and seasons. A 4-parter's never going to come anywhere near the narrative richness that'd reflect the lived exoerience of peeps involved in or living around dealing etc in Hackney, or anywhere.


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## BigTom (Nov 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> tbh, by ommitting the state/the media/the wider community almost entirely, the programme not only made itself utterly pointless, but totally improbable as well. I mean there were, what, 4 murders one one estate in one borough, in a week? That's something like a 3rd of the whole borough's annual murder rate in one week, and there's no newspaper stories, no beefed up police presence, no nothing!



thb, although it wasn't very well shown, the drama covered ~13 weeks because we were told that's how long the weed grow would take, and it got setup in the first episode and cropped in the last episode.. (e2a: there was still a distinct lack of police / media interest, especially police, only saw one car in the whole thing iirc)
The other timelines though didn't give it any feel of that amount of time actually passing.

I thought it was ok, watchable, nothing special, some good acting from a young cast, some nice cinematography but neither the characters nor the plot really drew me in.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 5, 2011)

BigTom said:


> thb, although it wasn't very well shown, the drama covered ~13 weeks because we were told that's how long the weed grow would take, and it got setup in the first episode and cropped in the last episode.. (e2a: there was still a distinct lack of police / media interest, especially police, only saw one car in the whole thing iirc)
> The other timelines though didn't give it any feel of that amount of time actually passing.
> 
> I thought it was ok, watchable, nothing special, some good acting from a young cast, some nice cinematography but neither the characters nor the plot really drew me in.



really? missed all that ... you'd think a drama would be able to show a passage of time a bit better


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## ddraig (Nov 5, 2011)

yeah they fucked that up
Kano even tweeted during episode 2 or 3 that the "timeline was fucked"


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## BigTom (Nov 5, 2011)

yeah, the timeline was fucked up, really badly shown and if I was going to watch it again I might see if there were even any indications in the dealer timeline or the young teenagers timelines to indicate how much time was supposed to have passed.
It was just one line in the opening episode when the vietnamese guy said how long the crop would take that gave a concrete indication of how much time is meant to be covered by the drama.
None of it felt like 13 weeks had gone by, more like a few days or a week maybe..


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## JimW (Nov 5, 2011)

I gave it a go because I've liked a couple of the novels Ronan Bennett's done ( The Catastrophist and Havoc in its Third Year) and as I recall his scripts for Face and The Hamburg Cell were OK. Saw Public Enemies and that was a bit by the numbers, and so was this despite all the research, as has been said. One of them things where you've got a lot of talent involved for less than the sum of its parts.


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 5, 2011)

I don't know what you lot are moaning about that was a fucking excellent drama.


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## Stoat Boy (Nov 7, 2011)

Enjoyed it although found the ending far to contrived.

However the time line point is an interesting one and got me thinking that a show set over 13 weeks with the centre of it being the cultivation of a drugs 'crop' could be an interesting one with all the ins and outs that could be weaved into it.

Not my world so could not even begin to formulate a plot line but as a backdrop to a drama, well I reckon it would work.


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## marty21 (Nov 7, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> tbh, by ommitting the state/the media/the wider community almost entirely, the programme not only made itself utterly pointless, but totally improbable as well. I mean there were, what, 4 murders one one estate in one borough, in a week? That's something like a 3rd of the whole borough's annual murder rate in one week, and there's no newspaper stories, no beefed up police presence, no nothing!


when there is a murder in Hackney, the Hackney Gazette tends to sell out on Thursday when it comes out.


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## articul8 (Nov 8, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> the more i watched, the less i enjoyed. it presented a shiny indistinct version of hackney that i certainly didn't recognise, the characterisation became more and more preposterous, the moral dilemmas presented didn't feel realistic or credible, it made an extremely ill-advised attempt to make it real by crow barring in a reference to the "London Fields Boys" and overall, i was quite disappointed to see what felt like a glamourisation of something which misrepresented the nature of what it purported to deal with.



No I really disagree - it'd didn't glamourise anything.  If anything it was a bit to heavy with the family morality stuff, but not in a way that undermined the plot.  I'm not saying it was strictly realistic but it was a good drama, well-scripted, for the most part well-acted.


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## articul8 (Nov 8, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> dodgy white drug overlords who run night clubs and work out of scrap yards or taxi office, please, these were stereotypes from the 80's. two bwoys who apparently run their estate, yet they've been mugged off on home turf twice and don't even have any gun of their own (ffs, even 14 year-old boys can get a gun and shoot someone).


 true



> young black boy (who was sensible to keep away from bad bwoys on first night) suddenly decides that he'll run a mj growing operation for an unrelated white woman, for no apparent reason (her character in particular is ridiculous). utterly utterly



he wanted to get involved with the gang but Leon warned him off. Not too far fetched to see him roped in with the mj 'farm' etc.


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## stavros (Nov 9, 2011)

Anyone know if it's going to be a one-off, or if a second series or mini-series has been commissioned?


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## marty21 (Nov 9, 2011)

the ending suggested a second series - he's still standing, got away with it and that.


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## stavros (Nov 10, 2011)

Whoever said the Eno soundtrack was good was OTM. Fine use of Fuck Buttons twice too.


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## kalidarkone (Nov 10, 2011)

stavros said:


> Whoever said the Eno soundtrack was good was OTM. Fine use of Fuck Buttons twice too.


I did. What is OTM?


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## DotCommunist (Nov 10, 2011)

On The Money


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## JimW (Nov 10, 2011)

Owed Twenty Margaritas


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## Psychonaut (Nov 11, 2011)

rover07 said:


> Why did the Vietnamese grower decide to do business with Gem and the girl? He was wary of that idiot Ra'nell and with good reason, he nicked his other crop and got someone murdered practically on the doorstep of the other farm!



Hes ripping them off.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 11, 2011)

articul8 said:


> No I really disagree - it'd didn't glamourise anything. If anything it was a bit to heavy with the family morality stuff, but not in a way that undermined the plot. I'm not saying it was strictly realistic but it was a good drama, well-scripted, for the most part well-acted.


i agree that the acting was generally good, but the plotting was poor and the claims to represent "real life", whatever that is, were misleading and in danger of glamourising something which is usually much more mundane tbf.


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## Edie (Nov 11, 2011)

I thought this was really good. I mean it's drama right, it's gotta have a good story at the risk of being a bit implausible. best thing I've seen for ages!


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 11, 2011)

then why trailer the thing as being the result of "2 years research"? i have no problem with it as a complete work of fiction.


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## Edie (Nov 11, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> then why trailer the thing as being the result of "2 years research"? i have no problem with it as a complete work of fiction.


Well research could be just to get a feel of it, pick up the jargon, find out how drug dealing gangs operate etc. I mean I'd kinda know fuck all about it, and I'm not exactly without experience of drugs and London estates. It don't mean it's a 'true story' does it?


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## ddraig (Nov 12, 2011)

Tippa Irie Top Boy vid


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## stavros (Nov 12, 2011)

I think it was on the Grauniad website the other, they'd played it to a load of young males from Hackney and the area and they said the main gripe was that there was no sign whatsoever of the police.


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## stavros (Aug 21, 2013)

Did anyone watch the start of the new series last night? Very good stuff.

Channel 4 is having a bit of a golden summer with drama; first The Returned, then Souythcliffe, and now this.


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## marty21 (Aug 21, 2013)

marty21 said:


> the ending suggested a second series - he's still standing, got away with it and that.




haven't watched the first episode of the SECOND series yet, but will do.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 21, 2013)

To my surprise I started this thread and don't remember watching even one episode


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## Fozzie Bear (Aug 21, 2013)

Not seen the new one yet, but this is a quality thread bump.


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## ringo (Aug 22, 2013)

Pretty good, better than the 1st series I reckon. The little homeless lad is a good character, acted well too. Things will not go well for him, I predict.


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## youngian (Aug 22, 2013)

So the shadey solitictor wants to do Ashley Walters's laundry and not his socks. With the gentrification sub-plot going on I think can see where this is leading. Still streets ahead of most British gangster stuff.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 22, 2013)

s'alright.


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## stavros (Aug 23, 2013)

A good score too, selected and/or composed by Eno I think.


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## bmd (Aug 23, 2013)

youngian said:


> So the shadey solitictor wants to do Ashley Walters's laundry and not his socks. With the gentrification sub-plot going on I think can see where this is leading. Still streets ahead of most British gangster stuff.


 

Solicitor turns up to a murder case and agrees to a drink with the suspect. Fuck off! It looks like she's setting him up for something but even so, there are bounds to believability.


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## starfish (Aug 23, 2013)

Was not too bad. Took a while to recognise the main young kid from the first series though.


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## stavros (Aug 24, 2013)

Ra'nell?

I remember the first series was only four episodes, screened on consecutive nights. The second series is weekly, but does anyone know how long the run is?


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## teahead (Aug 28, 2013)

Why is Hackney biz so much less in every way than what's shown in The Wire? Why's dealing so localised in London, so much closer to home? Or are those Americans just romantics (crims and film makers)?


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## stavros (Aug 28, 2013)

London is well over ten times the size of Baltimore, plus a political and economic capital, so the wealth and social diversity I guess is bound to be far greater.

Have we ever had a musicians-to-actors thread before? Both Walters and Robinson do a stirling job in the lead roles, despite being rappers in the first instance.


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## ddraig (Aug 28, 2013)

Walters was a child actor tho init
went to one of them acting schools

they are both bloody good actors tho, Kano is funny with the tweets while show is on too


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## Schmetterling (Sep 17, 2013)

stavros said:


> Whoever said the Eno soundtrack was good was OTM. Fine use of *Fuck Buttons* twice too.


 
stavros I tried to listen to this on Spotify.  Are you referrig to a band or a song, please? Ta


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## ddraig (Sep 17, 2013)

thy area band


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## Schmetterling (Sep 17, 2013)

ddraig said:


> thy area band


 
Thank you!


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## stavros (Sep 21, 2013)

Fuck Buttons are a rather brilliant noise duo from Bristol. Two of their tracks, along with one from side project Blanck Mass, featured in the Olympics opening ceremony last year - the Queen and Seb Coe are big fans apparently.


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## Schmetterling (Sep 22, 2013)

stavros said:


> Fuck Buttons are a rather brilliant noise duo from Bristol. Two of their tracks, along with one from side project Blanck Mass, featured in the Olympics opening ceremony last year - the Queen and Seb Coe are big fans apparently.



Thank you; have done a bit of searching now and come across this.


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## ruffneck23 (Sep 23, 2013)

i watched the last ep of s2 last night, i really enjoyed it, but the end was a bit harsh and a bit too abrupt imo, still cant wait until the next series


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## ddraig (Sep 23, 2013)

agreed, it did feel a bit rushed compared to the rest of it


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