# Legality of an 'unpaid trial shift' in the UK?



## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

Just off to work a  four hour 'unpaid trial shift' in hopes of perhaps getting some casual waitressing/bar work. 


Now I understand I am competing with people on the dole who can be near enough forced to work for free but it still sounds a bit shady. The job is with a subsidiary of my uni and was advertised (AFAIK exclusively - I looked for similar work other places) on the Student Union jobs site. Are they just taking advantage of poor students? I notice on one website that I may not be insured if I'm not paid (!) and there is nothing else in place like an official 'work trial' from the JSA.


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## Pingu (Dec 10, 2012)

I would guess it  falls foul of minimum wage gubbins if nothing else


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

Pingu said:


> I would guess it falls foul of minimum wage gubbins if nothing else


That's what I thought, esp as AFAICS it;s not being advertised to JSA claimants anyway - just students who shouldn't know better. I guess they can claim it as 'training' but we shall see, not even been asked to bring any ID...

Like I said it's a subsidiary if the uni, based on campus  and promoted through the job shop, surely it's just a slight blag? Fuck knows. Anyway I can't afford not to work so I guess I will have to turn up anyway, but just wondering...apparently this is fairly common these days which of course doesn't make it right.


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## sim667 (Dec 10, 2012)

You should be paid for 'training' regardless.


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

sim667 said:


> You should be paid for 'training' regardless.


Proof please? Links?

I know I won't be but if they are taking advantage of students (which I suspect they are)...I expect they have some sort of cover story - perhaps it's a four hour interview? (For casual bar work).


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 10, 2012)

All I can find on a quick search is someone on another forum saying they contacted the HMRC
Pay and Work Rights Helpline and were told it's not legal and they should get / should have got the minimum wage.

The HMRC web pages about minimum wage do not refer specifically to 'trial shifts' - may be worth a call to their enquiry line

I'm not sure where you would stand on insurance.  I'd be inclined to think that the employer would have a legal duty of care towards you, my thinking being that since case law has held that in some cases, there's a duty of care towards trespassers, and I'm sure there's a duty of care towards visitors, so I'm sure you would be covered somehow, even if you're classed as a member of the public (hence public liability) rather than an employee.


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

If you pass the 'trial' do you get those hours made up in your first pay packet?


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> If you pass the 'trial' do you get those hours made up in your first pay packet?


Unpaid and no guarantee of work. A sharp reminder where I'll be if I don't pass my uni course!


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Unpaid and no guarantee of work. A sharp reminder where I'll be if I don't pass my uni course!


 
That's really taking liberties. Have they got a massive queue of applicants or something?


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> That's really taking liberties. Have they got a massive queue of applicants or something?


They will do yes, most of whom will never have worked. Most of whom will be owed a duty of care by the institution that this is a subsidiary of...


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## sim667 (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Proof please? Links?
> 
> I know I won't be but if they are taking advantage of students (which I suspect they are)...I expect they have some sort of cover story - perhaps it's a four hour interview? (For casual bar work).


 
I've always been paid, I've found links that say its illegal, but nout official.


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## Garek (Dec 10, 2012)

Surely the more normal thing would be to take you on on probation.


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## Ax^ (Dec 10, 2012)

Lift out of the till on the trial,


Show initiative..


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## sim667 (Dec 10, 2012)

From the scatty answers im reading it looks like they can if its 'pre-employment' or shadowing.

But I think you should ask for confirmation in writing, if they refuse, I'd report it


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## cesare (Dec 10, 2012)

It's highly exploitative, it probably wouldn't stand up to a NMW challenge, it drives down wages for everyone else, and doing it condones the use of unpaid labour. 

But if needs must, it's understandable that people will do it.

Hopefully enough people will raise it on the Pay and Work Rights helpline that the matter will get taken up by the HMRC
https://www.gov.uk/your-right-to-minimum-wage/worker-disputes-over-minimum-wage


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## Pingu (Dec 10, 2012)

so how are they covered insurance wise if you have an accident or cause someone else to have an accident if you are not an employee? their TP and employers liability insurance sure as fuck wont pay up. and if they do say you are an employee then minimum wage stuff at the very least kicks in.

i guess however that it boils down to "how much do you want the job" if badly then stfu and just do it.. if "meh" then bubble them and post about ot on the univeristy intranet/blog/facewitter+


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

Pingu said:


> so how are they covered insurance wise if you have an accident or cause someone else to have an accident if you are not an employee? their TP and employers liability insurance sure as fuck wont pay up. and if they do say you are an employee then minimum wage stuff at the very least kicks in.
> 
> i guess however that it boils down to "how much do you want the job" if badly then stfu and just do it.. if "meh" then bubble them and post about ot on the univeristy intranet/blog/facewitter+


No choice, the Mr wants to go SE and I can't afford uni without extra money. I'm hoping even if it's shit I will at least have a chance to lose weight and get on the internet stripping being as those are pretty much the work options round here atm.


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## Pingu (Dec 10, 2012)

then just suck it up for now and write off 4 hours of your life. if you get the job then ask for the dosh and if you dont then scatter rat droppings about and call env health


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> Lift out of the till on the trial,
> 
> 
> Show initiative..


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## cesare (Dec 10, 2012)

Pingu said:


> then just suck it up for now and write off 4 hours of your life. if you get the job then ask for the dosh and if you dont then scatter rat droppings about and call env health


Also, if you don't get it make an ET claim for NMW. Doesn't cost anything - yet. And it might be successful and stop them doing it again in the future.


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

cesare said:


> Also, if you don't get it make an ET claim for NMW. Doesn't cost anything - yet. And it might be successful and stop them doing it again in the future.


It would at least cover the clothes I had to buy for the shift...


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## Ax^ (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


>



Worked in pubs for years it nothing new


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> Worked in pubs for years it nothing new


 
Cash out of the tills in pubs was a bit tricky for me. Fags and booze on the other hand....


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## cesare (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> It would at least cover the clothes I had to buy for the shift...


Exactly

Also, a sense of doing your bit to stop unscrupulous employers. The ETs aren't going to be free for much longer


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

cesare said:


> Exactly
> 
> Also, a sense of doing your bit to stop unscrupulous employers. The ETs aren't going to be free for much longer


Innit, fuckers - I assume there's work at the end of it though - no place could run on the basis of a constant stream of teenage staff that have never worked a day in their life - I assume that's why I've been implored not to wear leggings three times.


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> ... I assume that's why I've been implored not to wear leggings three times.


 
Mrs got sent off to Dorothy Perkins by her employer the other day to buy some tights because she turned up to work in leggings  I would have told them to fuck off


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> Mrs got sent off to Dorothy Perkins by her employer the other day to buy some tights because she turned up to work in leggings  I would have told them to fuck off


Good job you don't wear leggings to work then. I bet they would have something to say at your work and all.


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## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

Why the interest in leggings? Don't understand


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Good job you don't wear leggings to work then. I bet they would have something to say at your work and all.


 
I can dress how I like, but I think leggings might might raise an eyebrow or two.



weltweit said:


> Why the interest in leggings? Don't understand


 
Dunno  maybe some people have a phobia of bare ankles


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## Pingu (Dec 10, 2012)

cover the 4 hours by inviting a couple of mates to the place during the shift (if possible) and charging them the price of a single for a double etc


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

Well I think that went well but who knows. Knackered now though and deadlines still...


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## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Well I think that went well but who knows. Knackered now though and deadlines still...


Well, well done you stuff_it hope you get the job!


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Well, well done you stuff_it hope you get the job!


So do I, it is really convenient for me. Also will help me get a bit fitter. I was using a standing desk before I came to uni but there's no way to make one out of my halls furniture.


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> I can dress how I like, but I think leggings might might raise an eyebrow or two.
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno  maybe some people have a phobia of bare ankles


Apparently it would just be a bit 'fashion forward'. http://www.guardian.co.uk/fashion/shortcuts/2012/dec/10/leggings-for-men-meggings-trend


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> ....'fashion forward'. ...


 
Stop saying that! 

Are you coming to BF stuffs? I can introduce you to my 'fashion forward' (spits) mate if so.


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

'Meggings' FFS


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> Stop saying that!
> 
> Are you coming to BF stuffs? I can introduce you to my 'fashion forward' (spits) mate if so.


Can't afford to get into a club, I'm aht raving the same weekend in that there London though - perhaps if the rave doesn't get stopped you could all pop over after for a bit of extra munt?

I seem to have broken facebook trying to post the meggings link -


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Can't afford to get into a club, I'm aht raving the same weekend in that there London though - perhaps if the rave doesn't get stopped you could all pop over after for a bit of extra munt?
> 
> I seem to have broken facebook trying to post the meggings link -


 
Fucking meggings should be banned everywhere. It's the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while.

Is your rave on the Friday? I'll txt you and If it's on the way home or close I may pop in

ETA: you've broken fbook for me too


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> Fucking meggings should be banned everywhere. It's the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while.
> 
> Is your rave on the Friday? I'll txt you and If it's on the way home or close I may pop in
> 
> ETA: you've broken fbook for me too


Um no it's the Sat I think - can't check as FB is down, in fact it is so beyond down it hurts, esp as I was just about to download some essential pics and info for my assignments. 

Maybe I'm doomed to be a waitress forever.


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Um no it's the Sat I think - can't check as FB is down, in fact it is so beyond down it hurts, esp as I was just about to download some essential pics and info for my assignments.
> 
> Maybe I'm doomed to be a waitress forever.


 
I was just about to find you on fbook


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## stuff_it (Dec 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> I was just about to find you on fbook


 
Down for everyone or just me sez....


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## Mapped (Dec 10, 2012)

Down for everyone. That's $104bn well spent by idiots there


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## stuff_it (Dec 15, 2012)

A bit miffed about the job. I got no training apart from 'follow this person', got told off for wearing the 'long sleeved plain top and toned down jewellery' I was asked to wear (should have been no jewellery and a black buttoned shirt but that's not what I was told) and now not heard back so I assume it's a no - I did text the bloke as that's how we've been communicating as well.

That and the people already working there were very surprised that I wasn't being paid.


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 15, 2012)




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## Ax^ (Dec 15, 2012)

I did try to say that the unpaid trial shift is pretty much standard tact for pubs,


Pub works always been dodgy..

But fuckem try another one


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## stuff_it (Dec 15, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> I did try to say that the unpaid trial shift is pretty much standard tact for pubs,
> 
> 
> Pub works always been dodgy..
> ...


Not a pub...


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## Ax^ (Dec 15, 2012)

My bad


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## equationgirl (Dec 15, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> A bit miffed about the job. I got no training apart from 'follow this person', got told off for wearing the 'long sleeved plain top and toned down jewellery' I was asked to wear (should have been no jewellery and a black buttoned shirt but that's not what I was told) and now not heard back so I assume it's a no - I did text the bloke as that's how we've been communicating as well.
> 
> That and the people already working there were very surprised that I wasn't being paid.


I'm sorry you didn't get the job 

Although it might be a lucky escape if that's how they treat their staff.


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## stuff_it (Dec 15, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> *goes back to spliff*


Yeah innit. 



equationgirl said:


> I'm sorry you didn't get the job
> 
> Although it might be a lucky escape if that's how they treat their staff.


Yes, yes it would....um.


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