# Shafted at work, again...



## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Ok a bit of advice needed please.

I am employed as a Transport Manager (8 months so far) for a small charity and we have just lost a crucial grant.

It has been proposed that I work as a driver at a much reduced rate of pay and then be paid at a Transport Manager on an as and when required basis.

My boss gets to keep his totally outrageous salary whatever happens.

My initial view is that they can go and fuck off. My skills and expertise and qualifications are not available on an ad hoc basis.

Given I have not been in the post for a year I am aware I don't have recourse to an employment tribunal.

Am I entitled to notice? My contract says three months, can I enforce this? Do I just go sick with stress? ( I am mega stressed).


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Ok so it seems that what is happening is i am being made redundant. My contract stipulates that 3 months notice is required to terminate my employment. Is this what I can expect if made redundant?


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## Badgers (Jan 11, 2012)

Oh fuck


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## gabi (Jan 11, 2012)

Shit man, sorry to hear this - yeh, I'd expect you'll get 3 months - did you have a probation period?

At least that'll tide you over while you sort somethin else out anyway. best of luck.


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Oh fuck


Innit!

I think the only mega stresses I have not faced lately are bereavement and terminal illness.


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## sim667 (Jan 11, 2012)

Sounds iffy. get thee to the CAB!!!


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## Badgers (Jan 11, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I think the only mega stresses I have not faced lately are bereavement and terminal illness.



I was going to say 'at least you have your health' but hesitated


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Sounds iffy. get thee to the CAB!!!


Come on, this is 2012, where is a CAB that is open and taking new clients? 

Where is past caring? I have completely rinsed his good will in the last year with regard to getting advice and support. So, must send him a PM!


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 11, 2012)

Bleurgh.

I'd suggest a read of this (from CAB) on the subject of redundancy (if that's what is happening) and / or this (also CAB) if (as suggested in the first post) they want to change your contract.

With less than 2 years' service, you'll not be entitled to statutory redundancy pay, and with less than 1 year's service, you can't go to a tribunal on unfair dismissal unless it's blatantly sex / race (etc) discrimination.

I would have thought (and this is subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer or an sort of expert) that going from transport manager to driver would not constitute "reasonable alternative employment" (or whatever the term is) in this situation (I have worked for bus companies where similar sort of thing has happened to supervisory level posts, and it's been accepted that if they haven't wanted to revert to driver, they are entitled to redundancy) - even though you're not entitled to redundancy pay, you may need to think about how the dole people will react.

Ultimately, it's up to you what sort of terms you want to leave on (if it's anything like the transport world round here, the chances are you'll meet the same people again in another role in a few years' time) and whether going driving for the current organisation while you look for something else is (while not much fun) better than going on the dole.

As well as CAB, ACAS offer telephone advice to individuals - they have a page on redundancy here, with a link to the details of their advice line.

Best of luck


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Cheers Puddy_Tat.

I want as much cash as possible! I have two documents from my employer. First is "particulars of employment" which states employers notice period is one month. The other is "Statement of particulars of employment" which states three months notice.

Which applies?

Oh and BTW, just had it confirmed that my home tenancy is definitely over and I have to move out!!!!  Whoop! Thankfully HMP Wanno are keeping a bunk for me...


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

ACAS were very helpful. I will only refer to the Statement of particulars of employment" which states _three months_ notice. I will accept the trial job being offered. They then have to pay me my notice or make me work it. then and only then can the trial position commence.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 11, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Ok so it seems that what is happening is i am being made redundant. My contract stipulates that 3 months notice is required to terminate my employment. Is this what I can expect if made redundant?



So what your company is actually doing is making your full-time position redundant, pffering you re-employment as a driver,  but wish to be able to utilise your management expertise on an _ad hoc_ basis, presumably for some as yet unspecified remuneration (also presumably) to be paid on a case-by-case basis.

Sounds like a road-map to you getting butt-fucked, and your charity saving the difference between your and a driver's salary (discounting any _ex gratia_ payments they make to you for _ad hoc_ use of your manager's hat).


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> So what your company is actually doing is making your full-time position redundant, pffering you re-employment as a driver, but wish to be able to utilise your management expertise on an _ad hoc_ basis, presumably for some as yet unspecified remuneration (also presumably) to be paid on a case-by-case basis.
> 
> Sounds like a road-map to you getting butt-fucked, and your charity saving the difference between your and a driver's salary (discounting any _ex gratia_ payments they make to you for _ad hoc_ use of your manager's hat).


You have hit the nail on the head sir.


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## StoneRoad (Jan 11, 2012)

TC, I'm so sorry - that situation REALLY stinks. I agree with VP's summary and Puddy's advice. Especially as you think your boss is keeping himself on his nice fat cat arse rather than share the pain with the rest of you. Unless you have recourse to the charity board/trustees?
hmmm....... 8mths + 3mths notice +1mth trial - hey, that gets you to the 12mths for the tribunal.....or maybe they'll pick up on an alternative grant....try to get an option for re-instatement.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the nastyside of what passes for my mind/conscience suggests that your manager should meet with the backend of a 'bus.......


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

I think I will string it out for a bit then decline the shitty alternative job and demand my three months pay. Let my fucking boss do all the work. This fucking idiot on £50, 000 plus still can't attach a document to an email or set his ansa phone.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2012)

very sorry to hear this, top cat.


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> very sorry to hear this, top cat.


I know! Three insane bosses in a row. What are the odds? Given so many/most of the rest were really really nice, I started to think it was my fault. But no, it's them.


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

So I know I will be losing my flat, job and maybe liberty very soon. I have a smile though, it's remarkable.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2012)

TopCat said:


> So I know I will be losing my flat, job and maybe liberty very soon. I have a smile though, it's remarkable.


(((tc)))


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 11, 2012)

blargh.

might be worth seeking more qualified advice on how you'd get on with the dole when it comes to signing on - I don't know if their idea of "suitable alternative employment" is the same as that in redundancy situations.

although if you get a letter that says "redundancy" you're possibly OK

as for the flat (or whatever) hunting - any chance you can do this before the redundancy is confirmed? it's a whole lot more shit when you're already on the dole.

and if you're likely to end up claiming housing benefit, make sure you go for somewhere where the rent is within the local housing allowance limit, more here



TopCat said:


> and maybe liberty





ETA - couple of further thoughts.

By "transport manager" is this in respect of an O-Licence?  The Traffic Commissioners might take a dim view if you're really employed as a driver and have no real authority, but are just a stooge - I know they have made noises about tightening up on 'figurehead' transport managers recently.

And in general, bleurgh.  It's amazing how inept some charities are at being decent employers.  I've never worked for a charity, but a friend is on about her third 'compromise agreement' in the third sector...


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

The thing I am sweating on is my beloved cat, I have asked my ex wife to take him. I await an answer. Still, I am smiling.


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> blargh.
> 
> might be worth seeking more qualified advice on how you'd get on with the dole when it comes to signing on - I don't know if their idea of "suitable alternative employment" is the same as that in redundancy situations.
> 
> ...


 
I had a section 21 notice before Christmas from my landlord and they are pushing though with it whatever. So I have to get out from here. The job has gone to shit but hey. The legal issue gets lively in late Feb.


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> By "transport manager" is this in respect of an O-Licence? The Traffic Commissioners might take a dim view if you're really employed as a driver and have no real authority, but are just a stooge - I know they have made noises about tightening up on 'figurehead' transport managers recently.
> 
> And in general, bleurgh. It's amazing how inept some charities are at being decent employers. I've never worked for a charity, but a friend is on about her third 'compromise agreement' in the third sector...


 I had one compromise agreement, at least I can always rely on that reference!

I am more and more minded to refuse the alternative offer. It's £660 a month _less_ than I was getting. I have rent, child support, food bills to pay.


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## Radar (Jan 11, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I had a section 21 notice before Christmas from my landlord and they are pushing though with it whatever. So I have to get out from here. The job has gone to shit but hey. The legal issue gets lively in late Feb.


Have you read this article about section 21 notices, apparently 7 out of 10 are currently being rejected as flawed in the London area when they reach a court.

You might be able to blag a few months breathing space depending on your exact circumstances and the dates given.


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## stuff_it (Jan 11, 2012)

If it was me I'd take the redundancy, and look for summat else. You have loads of skills, and I'm sure you'll find something.


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## grit (Jan 11, 2012)

Radar said:


> Have you read this article about section 21 notices, apparently 7 out of 10 are currently being rejected as flawed in the London area when they reach a court.
> 
> You might be able to blag a few months breathing space depending on your exact circumstances and the dates given.



Excellent link.


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Radar said:


> Have you read this article about section 21 notices, apparently 7 out of 10 are currently being rejected as flawed in the London area when they reach a court.
> 
> You might be able to blag a few months breathing space depending on your exact circumstances and the dates given.


They never registered the deposit so are limited in how fast they can move. But if I move into the goodwill of others I can save money on rent. I can't enter into a new shorthold lease with anyone until I know the outcome of the trial.


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## stuff_it (Jan 11, 2012)

TopCat said:


> They never registered the deposit so are limited in how fast they can move. But if I move into the goodwill of others I can save money on rent. I can't enter into a new shorthold lease with anyone until I know the outcome of the trial.


Ho much do you owe the landlord, would a couple of months wages cover it (ish)? You could ask for an out of court settlement with that redundancy money...

Bear in mind that my normal MO is based on ending up sofa surfing or buying a cheap trailer isn't the end of the world...


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

Nah they owe me money.


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## TopCat (Jan 11, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Nah they owe me money.


They (the owners) are mental, they have got shot of all their tenants and are expecting an influx of oligarchs hitting town for the Olympics and having a desperate desire to stay on a disused farm in Croydon. It's like a cargo cult.


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## stuff_it (Jan 11, 2012)

TopCat said:


> They (the owners) are mental, they have got shot of all their tenants and are expecting an influx of oligarchs hitting town for the Olympics and having a desperate desire to stay on a disused farm in Croydon. It's like a cargo cult.




Do they live there? I'm sure I could get some site to invade it once it's vacant if the transport links are decent...


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## past caring (Jan 12, 2012)

TopCat - employment isn't my speciality, but I think you've had sound advice from ACAS anyhow. I have got an employment solicitor mate I can have a word with if you want, but short of a year you've got no real recourse in this kind of situation.

Tactically, I wonder if you might not be better off sticking it out if you're not _certain_ that you'll be able to walk into something with equivalent pay? Several reasons for this;

you'd be best placed to become transport manager again if the company needs one. If you get past 12 months with the notice and trial period and there is nothing in your probation/supervision records to indicate that you were not up to scratch as transport manager then they more or less have to give you the job if it becomes available again. Certainly you'd have grounds for an ET if they didn't.
bird in the bush - better to have some money coming in than nothing. And they have to give you reasonable time off to look for other work/attend interviews during the notice period. Nothing to stop you looking while you're still working there.
the real clincher - worst case scenario with your other woes, you get a guilty and the court is deciding whether or not to give you a custodial or a heavy fine, you _will_ get the custodial if the court thinks you cannot pay the fine (even by installments). Best to be in work (they will check) in case this happens.
As for signing on, it won't be a problem given that the company is saying redundancy/offering an alternative on considerably reduced pay. If this is the route you want to go and you get any grief, let me know.

I will have a word with the missus about the chances of us taking the cat until you get yourself sorted if the worst comes to the worst with the flat.

Lastly, we need to sort out a beer before toothbrush day.


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for that PC, your support is hugely appreciated. 

I have just had another meeting with my CEO. He has made another offer. This comprises of one day per week at my present rate of pay and four days per week at a drivers rate of pay. This offer is only up unto the 31/03/2012. There is no offer of employment _after_ this date, they will have to see what income is like.  They want to start this as soon as possible. I stated that this process was concerned with making my present position redundant and it's a lot to think about, a huge drop in income etc. I said I would come back to him after giving it some thought but not to expect an answer today as it will require a lot of thought.

I am in two minds.

Am I absolutely entitled to the notice stipulated in my terms or if I accept the alternative position do I forfeit this entitlement to notice? I think my boss has had advice that if I take the other job, no notice is required.

My barrister thinks it best that I am employed at the time of the trial. I would love to just tell my boss to crack on with it himself.

The charity is going down the shitter for sure, the bosses cash flow is a dishonest document, I did the cash flow again yesterday and it's doom and gloom by June.


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

My main worry is the cat!!


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 12, 2012)

TopCat said:


> So I know I will be losing my flat, job and maybe liberty very soon. I have a smile though, it's remarkable.



You should change your user-name to Job-Cat, for surely the very trials of Job are being dumped on your shoulders.


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

Too often charities are run by ex business people who ignore the law and best practice in terms of employment. 

Another meeting with my boss today. He put forward another proposal, 1 day per week at existing rate of pay and 4 days at half pay as a driver. I so want to fuck him off, I just stalled for time and said I would come back to him. I will, next week, but with a list of complicated questions!


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

My ex wife has agreed to have the cat. I am thrilled.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 12, 2012)

On todays' posts -

a) would this in effect be two different part-time jobs, or what?

b) are the terms & conditions you have now generic across the organisation, or were they specific to your current post?

c) if the latter, what are the terms & conditions of your new post/s? It's not impossible to make acceptance of a new post dependent on accepting new terms & conditions. I'm a bit fuzzy on whether it would - in the eyes of the law and the dole office - constitute resignation or redundancy if you said no.

d) would a single new full time post as (say) 'chargehand driver' be better, on the basis that you spend approx 1 day a week in the office?

e) it's not entirely uncommon for grant aided organisations not to know until very late in the day whether they will get grant funding come the next 1 April - this is not entirely the fault of the voluntary organisation/s if the local / health authority who gives the grant is being indecisive. Are they saying that as things stand, they are still giving you notice to quit as at 31 March (which they can withdraw if funding does come through)?

f) is this simply withdrawal of funding for the service that your organisation provides? Not the local authority funding / contracting with a different organisation to provide a similar service?

If the service is continuing, but with a different provider, then you may well have a legal right to transfer to the new provider under TUPE law. (I can say more about this but don't want to if it's not relevant.)

*worries about the cat*

(ETA - glad to hear the cat's future is safe)


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> On todays' posts -
> 
> a) would this in effect be two different part-time jobs, or what?
> 
> ...



I really want the notice pay and to be able to leave and concentrate on my trial/lolling about/relaxing/focusing on myself. Trying to fuck me over causes a fundamental change in my attitude towards them. 

I think they will have to accept that I am entitled to three months notice. I don't want to have to work it though. I think I need to cause some friction but I can't see the exact best place.


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

The Chair and the CEO could do with more tension between _them_. I think that the way the Chair finds out the CEO has given me a contractual document stating three months notice is required will be crucial.

In trying to save money by fucking me over, the CEO has caused short to medium costs to _increase_ and the cash flow to worsen and has lowered morale. The Chair will go nuts at the CEO.


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## past caring (Jan 12, 2012)

TopCat said:


> My ex wife has agreed to have the cat. I am thrilled.



I thought you really cared for the cat?


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

past caring said:


> I will have a word with the missus about the chances of us taking the cat until you get yourself sorted if the worst comes to the worst with the flat.



Aww mate, I was _very_ touched by this kind offer. You probably more than most know that I was fretting about the cat more than losing job/flat/liberty.

It will be best for the cat and the kids for my ex wife to take him. It's a credit to us both that she has agreed and a real marker in our history given I did not pressure her or what have you. 

"Lastly, we need to sort out a beer before toothbrush day". Yes indeed. I'm paid 24th. I'll call you. Warn your better half that you may be late, I owe you more than one beer. :0


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

past caring said:


> I thought you really cared for the cat?


I love the cat mate? I am leaving here at the end of Jan, I can't bring him with me, he will be best with the kids and their mum as he knows them and loves them (the kids).


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## past caring (Jan 12, 2012)

Sorry, I know you do - it was a poor joke in reference to past travails with your ex-missus.


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## TopCat (Jan 12, 2012)

past caring said:


> Sorry, I know you do - it was a poor joke in reference to past travails with your ex-missus.


I think I must be distracted not to get this!


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 12, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I really want the notice pay and to be able to leave and concentrate on my trial/lolling about/relaxing/focusing on myself. Trying to fuck me over causes a fundamental change in my attitude towards them.
> 
> I think they will have to accept that I am entitled to three months notice. I don't want to have to work it though. I think I need to cause some friction but I can't see the exact best place.



dunno really - you have said



TopCat said:


> My barrister thinks it best that I am employed at the time of the trial.



There's no legal entitlement to pay in lieu of notice, some organisations go in for it as standard practice, some don't, and some will be awkward buggers and make sure you don't get it if you want it...


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## TopCat (Jan 16, 2012)

Well the boss is pressing me for a response. I think a list of questions is more appropriate at this stage. The bastard also just verbally attacked me this morning in a manner designed I think to cause me to tell him to fuck off. I swallowed and now seethe.


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## TopCat (Jan 16, 2012)

Any questions for my list? ​


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## past caring (Jan 16, 2012)

What plans are in place to win new contracts/improve the organisation's long-term finacial viability?
In the event that new contracts are won and the organisation requires a full-time transport manager again, are you prepared to offer me the post without an interview? i.e. I simply increase my days in that post/at that rate of pay from 1 day a week to 5. Will you confirm this in writing?
If there is a company pension scheme, what are the prospects of the employer contributions continuing to be paid at the old rate?
I'll think of some more in a bit - those are just off the top of my head.


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## TopCat (Jan 16, 2012)

The more the better.


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## TopCat (Jan 17, 2012)

The boss spent most of yesterday trying to provoke me to tell him to go and fuck himself so he can save on my notice pay. Given the stress I am facing at the moment I did rather well to totally refuse to rise to the bait.


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## past caring (Jan 17, 2012)

In that kind of situation you just have to bear in mind that you are causing him even greater levels of stress and frustration by refusing to rise to it. Just think about how chewed up the cunt is feeling inside.


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## TopCat (Jan 17, 2012)

He has provided _verbal_ answers to my questions. He wants a response to the job offer by next Tuesday. I am going to almost certainly decline it. My barrister says it would be best to be employed but also that there is absolutely fuck all chance of getting anything other than custodial if I get a  guilty in my case so...


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 17, 2012)

TopCat said:


> He has provided _verbal_ answers to my questions.



which can be denied later.

get it on paper!


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## TopCat (Jan 24, 2012)

I have everything on paper now. I have the crunch meeting with bosses today. I am going to politely decline their kind offer of a shit job at half the pay. I am going to play dumb about the notice period today. I am hoping they commit on paper to paying me in lieu of notice. then and only then will I politely remind them that I am due three months notice pay not one.

I really loathe my boss, it will be good for me to not have to endure the horrible fucker ever again.


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## TopCat (Jan 24, 2012)

Just for context the fucker texted me at 06:40am today to get me to buy milk for his fucking tea.


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## ddraig (Jan 24, 2012)

good luck, hope their faces hit the floor when they realise! 


TopCat said:


> Just for context the fucker texted me at 06:40am today to get me to buy milk for his fucking tea.


 cheeky fucks


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## TopCat (Jan 24, 2012)

Meeting went as I expected. They definitely have not read the contract terms!

if I am obliged to work my notice period, how much time can I take off to go job hunting?


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## TopCat (Jan 24, 2012)

I think they must have discovered the notice period by now given they are still locked in a room with raised voices emanating from time to time.


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## past caring (Jan 24, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Meeting went as I expected. They definitely have not read the contract terms!
> 
> if I am obliged to work my notice period, how much time can I take off to go job hunting?



None, unless it's provided for in your contract - in order to take advantage of the statutory provision (in which case it's "reasonable" paid time off, but no more than 2/5ths of a week's pay in total in any one week - feasibly, then, you could take more unpaid and it still be "reasonable") you need two years' continuous service.


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## TopCat (Jan 24, 2012)

Ah thanks for that. They will probably want to discuss this all with me again shortly. I think it time for a full lunch hour.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 24, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Just for context the fucker texted me at 06:40am today to get me to buy milk for his fucking tea.



Laxative? Acid? The possibilities are endless.


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## TopCat (Jan 24, 2012)

He refused to pay me for he milk saying I was being _petty_.

The CEO and the Chair are still in their meeting.


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## Crispy (Jan 24, 2012)

TopCat said:


> He refused to pay me for he milk saying I was being _petty_.
> 
> The CEO and the Chair are still in their meeting.



Print one of these out:


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## stuff_it (Jan 24, 2012)

TopCat said:


> He refused to pay me for he milk saying I was being _petty_.
> 
> The CEO and the Chair are still in their meeting.





Crispy said:


> Print one of these out:


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## Guineveretoo (Jan 24, 2012)

If you are entitled to three months' notice, then you are also entitled to that notice for a change in your contract, so the offer of reduced hours and pay should not take effect for three months.... might that help?


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## TopCat (Jan 24, 2012)

The CEO was just down to say he was disappointed that I would be leaving given the efforts he had made to find/make a position here for me. I think it's starting to sink into his dense little brain that he will have to do all the work now and does not know how to do it?

He asked me if I would still be putting in the XXX x XXX tender that is out in April/May. This bloke is seriously thick.


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## Guineveretoo (Jan 24, 2012)

Make sure he is clear that you are not leaving voluntarily - don't say anything to make him think you are resigning!


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## TopCat (Jan 25, 2012)

Boss asked me this morning if I had decided when I was leaving. I said the ball is in your court, you have to give me notice according to my contract and then decide if you are paying this in lieu or making me work it.


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## Guineveretoo (Jan 25, 2012)

well done!


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## Guineveretoo (Jan 25, 2012)

You may also want to take it a bit further, and ask them for a formal offer of compensation for you to consider.

Don't accept anything without considering it, by the way, even if it seems generous!

One thing to know is that, if they offer you compensation, rather than payment in lieu of notice, it would not be subject to tax, whereas notice payments are....


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## TopCat (Jan 25, 2012)

The CEO has just asked me to consider if I would do driving work as I work out my notice.

The fucker really does not want to pay me what I am due.

I think I will formally decline but will do it tomorrow.


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## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2012)

He sounds like a complete wanker, TopCat.

And no more morning milk purchases - he's got a damned cheek if he won't even reimburse you. What a cock.

I wish you all the best TopCat, and I hope your boss gets everything he obviously so richly deserves.


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## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2012)

I love the way they're making out this is YOUR decision too!!!!!!


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 25, 2012)

TopCat said:


> The CEO has just asked me to consider if I would do driving work as I work out my notice.
> 
> The fucker really does not want to pay me what I am due.
> 
> I think I will formally decline but will do it tomorrow.



If they pay you the rate for your current job during the notice period, and it constitutes 'reasonable alternative duties' or some such, then perhaps...


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## TopCat (Jan 25, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> If they pay you the rate for your current job during the notice period, and it constitutes 'reasonable alternative duties' or some such, then perhaps...



Oh fuck could this give them wriggle room if I decline?


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 25, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Oh fuck could this give them wriggle room if I decline?



possibly.

as far as I know, there's no legal right to be given pay in lieu of notice, so if they are prepared to give you 'suitable' work for the 3 months, if you refuse that then you could be taken to be 'resigning'

some employers seem happy to give people pay in lieu to get them out of the way, some employers resist it as a matter of principle (in some cases they try harder to resist it when people seem to be trying harder to get it, if you see what i mean)

whether your existing contract would make going driving for 3 months on your current pay & conditions (as opposed to covering the odd duty because someone is sick) 'reasonable' or 'suitable' is probably the key here.

if your current job is office hours and they wanted you to do shift work for the 3 months, that might not be 'reasonable'

this subject to the usual disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer, i haven't seen your contract, if in doubt ring ACAS and so on.

best of luck.


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## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2012)

Surely that would be in addition to your normal duties though, not instead of. Another reason to politely decline doing extra work for no extra pay.


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## TopCat (Jan 25, 2012)

MMm.


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## TopCat (Jan 25, 2012)

Thinking back on the conversation. He emphasized I would get the present wage for the driving job during notice.


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## sheothebudworths (Jan 25, 2012)

I reckon it's just about my favourite thing on here when this sort of *one step ahead* advice is given when you have employers blatantly attempting to be shameless, scheming, sly, rip off merchants.....nice one Puddy Tat, past caring, Guin etc  ...and best of luck in getting what you're due, TC (and I hope your luck changes soon, too, cos you deserve a fucking break).
Keep at em! x


----------



## TopCat (Jan 25, 2012)

If it's for the same wage then why not actually. I like customers.  I might get tips.


----------



## StoneRoad (Jan 25, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Thinking back on the conversation. He emphasized I would get the present wage for the driving job during notice.



If he'll put all that in writing ? ? hmmmm.....


----------



## TopCat (Jan 25, 2012)

I'll go in and emphisize that my reading of the terms and conditions is that 3 months notice is due. I will agree to do whatever for the same money and broadly similar hours.  I might ask for longer to think about it though.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jan 25, 2012)

....'broadly similar' being not significantly _more_...and with it all in writing? 

And text him on your last day at 5.40am to say you're running late, or you'd do it yourself, _obv_....but you do faintly recall that the milk was possibly running low, although you're not 100%, but he might want to get himself some in, just in case


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2012)

Seeing as this guy is just itching to shaft you, get everything in writing first including the duties they want you to do in addition to what you normally do.

Agree to nothing until this is provided. If he won't, point out how 'petty' he's being - after all, what's the big deal? *affect innocence here*

No more Mr Milk Monitor!!


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2012)

sheothebudworths said:


> ....'broadly similar' being not significantly _more_...and with it all in writing?
> 
> And text him on your last day at 5.40am to say you're running late, or you'd do it yourself, _obv_....*but you do faintly recall that the milk was possibly running low*, although you're not 100%, but he might want to get himself some in, just in case



How about 'milk smelt a bit funny yesterday, he'd better get fresh supplies in'?


----------



## TopCat (Jan 26, 2012)

He is being a full on Bully boy today. <sigh>.


----------



## grit (Jan 26, 2012)

TopCat said:


> He is being a full on Bully boy today. <sigh>.



Stay strong, you are doing great.


----------



## past caring (Jan 26, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I'll go in and emphisize that my reading of the terms and conditions is that 3 months notice is due. I will agree to do whatever for the same money and broadly similar hours.  I might ask for longer to think about it though.



If it's a notice period, it _has_ to be the same terms and conditions -i.e. pay, leave entitlement, etc. - otherwise it's a new contract. Despite any cuntishness, it seems that he's at least realised that.

You may wish to ask for confirmation in writing that this will be the case, but I'd not make it a sticking point - in effect, you already have it in writing, because it's in your contract and unless you've agreed (in writing) to a change to that contract or to an entirely new one, then the existing contract subsits.

However, thinking of getting things in writing - may be an idea to get an agreed reference written up before you leave?


----------



## TopCat (Jan 26, 2012)

past caring said:


> If it's a notice period, it _has_ to be the same terms and conditions -i.e. pay, leave entitlement, etc. - otherwise it's a new contract. Despite any cuntishness, it seems that he's at least realised that.
> 
> You may wish to ask for confirmation in writing that this will be the case, but I'd not make it a sticking point - in effect, you already have it in writing, because it's in your contract and unless you've agreed (in writing) to a change to that contract or to an entirely new one, then the existing contract subsits.
> 
> However, thinking of getting things in writing - may be an idea to get an agreed reference written up before you leave?



I am hoping in the end we can negotiate a settlement. I _might_ give a discount on the notice period if it's paid as pay in lieu and done as an ex gratia payment with an agreed reference set in stone.

The CEO is just throwing one set of obnoxiousness at me after another. I can handle this, it's just a bit wearing.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2012)

Remember they are cocks. As cocks, hit them where it hurts - the wallet.


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## TopCat (Jan 26, 2012)

What a day of it. It is hard to handle, a continual undermining.

Cheers for the support you good people.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2012)

TopCat said:


> What a day of it. It is hard to handle, a continual undermining.
> 
> Cheers for the support you good people.


It is undermining. They're trying to make you go with their appalling behaviour, so they can claim you decided to leave.

Your continued attendance is the best revenge - leave when you decide to, not when they do.


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## TopCat (Jan 27, 2012)

His new tactic is to regale me with tales of Marks and Spencer management in the 1980's. He thinks we should get rid of elected politicians and replace them all with M&S managers. This is all worse than shouting and so on.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 27, 2012)

TopCat said:


> He thinks we should get rid of elected politicians and replace them all with M&S managers.



Dunno really.

If you had a month to ask for your money back after the formation of a new government, that wouldn't be a bad thing...


----------



## TopCat (Jan 27, 2012)

Or you could bring your govt back, with under arm staining and a whiff about it and get another one and an apology.


----------



## Quartz (Jan 27, 2012)

Just a quick note to say well done and I admire your fortitude.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 28, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Or you could bring your govt back, with under arm staining and a whiff about it and get another one and an apology.



Or when you get given a government policy you didn't want as a present, they'd let you pick the one you wanted instead.


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## Radar (Jan 30, 2012)

Started spunking in the milk yet ??


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## TopCat (Jan 30, 2012)

I am continuing to be pleasant, charming and helpful.  I peed a little in his executive kettle though.


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## stuff_it (Jan 30, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I am continuing to be pleasant, charming and helpful.  I peed a little in his executive kettle though.




Why only a little? Go back to fetching milk for him but jizz in it.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 30, 2012)

If he dies could you apply for his job?


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## Greebo (Jan 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Why only a little? Go back to fetching milk for him but jizz in it.


Creative thinking, I like it.


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## killer b (Jan 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Go back to feltching milk for him


steady on!


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## stuff_it (Jan 30, 2012)

killer b said:


> steady on!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I am continuing to be pleasant, charming and helpful.  I peed a little in his executive kettle though.



Cultivate some cock-cheese and then smear it on the rim of his executive coffee mug?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 30, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Cultivate some cock-cheese and then smear it on the rim of his executive coffee mug?


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## equationgirl (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm so glad I can't see that image....

How about you rinse his mug in the toilet bowl?


----------



## StoneRoad (Jan 30, 2012)

insert some laxative chocolate into more chocolate.....then screw up the loo door..
..or, better still - give the chocs to him just before he leaves for the day...he'll have an interesting night!


----------



## TopCat (Jan 31, 2012)

Bastard started the day with a totally unreasonable attack on me. I am seething. I told him he was being ridiculous and unreasonable.


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## weepiper (Jan 31, 2012)

never mind, if he keeps this up you might be able to sue him for constructive dismissal too.


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## Radar (Jan 31, 2012)

Just think of the kettle and the man cream in his milk.... breathe slowly and smile, perhaps with a "whatever" and a twirl of the hand.

It will annoy him such much more not to be able to get a rise out of you.

Have they come back to you with a written redundancy offer yet ??


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## TopCat (Jan 31, 2012)

Radar said:


> Have they come back to you with a written redundancy offer yet ??



No they fucking have not (sorry for swearing but hey).

It's a stupid way of dealing with things.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 31, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Bastard started the day with a totally unreasonable attack on me. I am seething. I told him he was being ridiculous and unreasonable.



 

There are some organisations / managers who are sufficiently high on the cuntitude scale that if they are in a position of making redundancies that they will try either to piss people off enough that they quit, or try it on with dodgy disciplinaries, so that they don't have to pay redundancy.

It sounds like that's what this twunt is trying to do.  Bear that in mind - if you're polite and charming enough in response, it might just send his blood pressure high enough to be dangerous.

Although he might just be in a bad mood because his coffee tasted funny this morning...



weepiper said:


> never mind, if he keeps this up you might be able to sue him for constructive dismissal too.



I can't remember if I said this earlier in the thread, but tread carefully here and seek qualified advice (eg call ACAS if you're not in a union) before going down this path.  I think you normally have to at least have tried to sort matters out through the grievance procedure before you walk out.  If you don't follow the right procedure, then the tribunal can dismiss a claim on technicalities.


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## TopCat (Jan 31, 2012)

He just came down and apologised. Toothache and sciatica apparently provoked his rudeness.

If I was going to wish evilness on someone, toothache and sciatica would fit the bill.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 31, 2012)

TopCat said:


> <snip>If I was going to wish evilness on someone, toothache and sciatica would fit the bill.


Oh yes, distractingly painful, sporadic, impossible to zone out, and no hope of a quick death from them either. VEG


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## TopCat (Jan 31, 2012)

And I still have not had notice regarding redundancy!!


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## TopCat (Feb 2, 2012)

Still had no notice. <roll eyes>


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## Pingu (Feb 2, 2012)

look on the bright side every day without notice in a extra days pay


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## TopCat (Feb 2, 2012)

Pingu said:


> look on the bright side every day without notice in a extra days pay


Yeah you are right.


----------



## Pingu (Feb 2, 2012)

and an extra day to suplement your bosses protein intake


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 2, 2012)

sorry to hear about yer troubles, TC, keep yer chin up mate


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 2, 2012)

Pingu said:


> and an extra day to suplement your bosses protein intake


YES!!!! FTW! do it, TC...


----------



## Radar (Feb 2, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> YES!!!! FTW! do it, TC...


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 3, 2012)

I remember that guy - he was a well known sight in central London, and appeared to be harmless in that all he did was wander around with that sign. There is a bloke who reminds me of him who has a thing about smoking and was campaigning for a smoking ban in a similar way who, now there is such a ban in place, campaigns for a ban on all films or tv shows which have smoking in them. He turns up at political conferences and the like, whereas the chap above just wandered around shopping streets, afaik.


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## sheothebudworths (Feb 3, 2012)

Oxford St.


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## TopCat (Feb 3, 2012)

Fucks sake. 

I sent the following email last week after a meeting with my boss and the Chairman. 

"The purpose of this email is to formally record my response to your proposal to make my position of Operations Manager redundant and your offer of an alternative position doing 4 days per week driving and 1 day per week doing administration duties.

As I explained at the meeting today with you and the Chairmanf I will not be taking up the position offered. This is because the status, responsibilities and remuneration are vastly different to my current position.  

I accept that this now means my present position will be made redundant. I acknowledge that I am not entitled to redundancy payment(s) as I have not been in my present position for two years. 

I would urge you to consider allowing me to have my contractual notice in the form of pay in lieu of notice and to make such payment on an ex gratia basis. 

Kind regards"

I had no reply until today. then I get the following. 

"Dear TopCat,

Further to your meeting with the chairman and myself on Tuesday 24th January 2012 I can now confirm that the board has accepted your resignation from (the organisation). 

Further discussions are taking place in regard to your redundancy and I will be in contact shortly. 

Yours sincerely

Fuck face. "

I immediately protested that I have not in any sense resigned and regard this letter as being deliberately obtuse. 

Any advice?


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## Teaboy (Feb 3, 2012)

Get legal advice if I were you, its getting serious.

ETA: Although that being said they still mention redunduncy so it could just be a incorrect choice of phrase.  Still looks suspect though.


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## TopCat (Feb 3, 2012)

The boss is a fucking idiot. He aims to shaft me alright. I can predict a work precluding reaction to the precautionary skin cancer treatment I am about to have....


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## Guineveretoo (Feb 3, 2012)

They appear to be suggesting that your refusal to accept the alternative post is akin to you resigning which they can do if they can demonstrate that the role was "suitable alternative employment".


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 3, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> They appear to be suggesting that your refusal to accept the alternative post is akin to you resigning which they can do if they can demonstrate that the role was "suitable alternative employment".


 
Which it isn't, given that TC's job was mostly administrative, and driving is *not* an administrative role.


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Which it isn't, given that TC's job was mostly administrative, and driving is *not* an administrative role.


 
^ this.

I don't think the written law about exactly what does / does not constitute "suitable / reasonable" alternative employment, but there is bound to be case law.

Type of work, level of responsibility, level of pay, conditions (e.g. offering a shift working job over 7 days a week would probably not be seen as 'reasonable' for someone being made redundant from a 9-5 type job) would all influence what's considered reasonable.

In the bit of local government I used to be in, it was 'reasonable' to expect someone to take a job X salary points lower, but not more than X, for example.

Precedent within that specific organisation might be relevant.

ACAS or a union would be able to advise on this.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 3, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> ^ this.
> 
> I don't think the written law about exactly what does / does not constitute "suitable / reasonable" alternative employment, but there is bound to be case law.
> 
> ...


 
Yep.

I'm just going by what happened to a mate who was a transport manager for a well-known business services company, who was made pretty much the same offer of "alternative employment", but as only about 10% of his management role was providing occasional driver cover _in extremis_, and the rest was admin, the company got fucked off at the tribunal because they weren't offering anything that approached a reasonably comparable (in work-type or salary) position.  I suspect that TC's boss is one of those people who thinks T & Cs and working regs can be transgressed at will, and that companies can easily get away with it. The wealth of precedent set at tribunals says otherwise.


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## Puddy_Tat (Feb 3, 2012)

Assuming I'm right in remembering that TC is in the "third sector" it does amaze me how damned inept "caring, cuddly, charitable" employers can be when it comes to employing staff.  A friend of mine (she does lurk round here occasionally) has had a heck of a lot of problems with employers in the third sector...


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 3, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Assuming I'm right in remembering that TC is in the "third sector" it does amaze me how damned inept "caring, cuddly, charitable" employers can be when it comes to employing staff. A friend of mine (she does lurk round here occasionally) has had a heck of a lot of problems with employers in the third sector...


never a truer word spoken. I've spent my whole working life working for private sector firms, but I've heard stories from mates who've worked for charities whose bosses have treated their staff in ways that would horrify every boss I've ever had


----------



## Guineveretoo (Feb 3, 2012)

I am afraid that the voluntary sector is famously bad at employment practices. This appears to stem partly from the fact that they are small organisations, so not able to hire experienced/knowledgeable HR folks to give them good advice, but also from the fact that the organisations are run by people who volunteer to do so, often on top of their own employment, who are rarely themselves expert at management or human resources, and who appear to expect their staff to be working for the good of the organisation and not to care too much about unimportant things like pay and terms and conditions!

Anyway, TC is doing the right thing in asking for everything in writing. It is important, now, to respond in writing to the latest correspondence, indicating that he has not resigned, is committed to the role he has been doing, and willing to continue in that role. May be worth clarifying, in fact, that his acceptance of the position was in response to what he had been told about the funding issues and the fact that his employer had indicated that there was not a role going forward.

In the same letter, or separately if it suits, he should also be reminding the employer that, although there has been some consultation about the possibility of redundancy, there is a procedure which needs to be followed and that, until and unless this procedure is followed, TC intends to carry on working as he has been doing to date.


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## equationgirl (Feb 3, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> never a truer word spoken. I've spent my whole working life working for private sector firms, but I've heard stories from mates who've worked for charities whose bosses have treated their staff in ways that would horrify every boss I've ever had


^^^This. And I've had some bad bosses.


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## TopCat (Feb 3, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> It is important, now, to respond in writing to the latest correspondence, indicating that he has not resigned, is committed to the role he has been doing, and willing to continue in that role. May be worth clarifying, in fact, that his acceptance of the position was in response to what he had been told about the funding issues and the fact that his employer had indicated that there was not a role going forward.
> 
> In the same letter, or separately if it suits, he should also be reminding the employer that, although there has been some consultation about the possibility of redundancy, there is a procedure which needs to be followed and that, until and unless this procedure is followed, TC intends to carry on working as he has been doing to date.


 
Superb advice and support.


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## TopCat (Feb 3, 2012)

I got a tickle about another job today. If only I can delay them a bit, get my legal hassles out of the way.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Feb 4, 2012)

Good luck with that!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 6, 2012)

Very productive chat with CEO of another organisation. A decent and well respected man.  The application will be going IN.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 6, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I got a tickle about another job today. If only I can delay them a bit, get my legal hassles out of the way.


 
Nice one! 

If you get a firm job offer wouldn't it be easier to just fuck of your current employers?


----------



## Streathamite (Feb 6, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Very productive chat with CEO of another organisation. A decent and well respected man.  The application will be going IN.


 great news! good luck, mate, I'm rooting for ya!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 6, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Very productive chat with CEO of another organisation. A decent and well respected man.  The application will be going IN.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Nice one!
> 
> If you get a firm job offer wouldn't it be easier to just fuck of your current employers?


I have a trial to get acquitted from first!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

Just had meeting with CEO and Chair. They are agreeable to paying my three months notice.  I have about 5 hours left here.  

What made me quite happy was seeing my boss drinking water out of THAT glass whilst we were having the discussion.


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## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

I will now go and offer to volunteer for three days a week for the potential new job and get my feet firmly under the table.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Feb 7, 2012)

Good luck Topcat with both of your current problems. You played your cards well with your employer. 

Re-edited my 'goof'


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

The money will be on an ex gratia basis! Get in!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 7, 2012)




----------



## Crispy (Feb 7, 2012)

Got it in writing? No popping the cork till you do...


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

He is sending an email soon. I won't be leaving until I get it!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

So all being well I get the money here, get the new job, get acquitted at the trial, fuck off on holiday to Turkey and use the remaining cash to put down a deposit and rent in advance for new to me flat and then get my cat back.


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## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

Confirmation email received and forwarded to private account. 

<pops cork>


----------



## likesfish (Feb 7, 2012)

Good news the 3rd sector is mostly an embarressment when it comes to hr.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

I very much appreciate the support expressed on this thread from you all. It was a great boon to me. Urban at it's best. One love.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Feb 7, 2012)

This is all good news, and I am really glad that it looks like your employment concerns are sorted, and that you will end up with a few quid to help!

Fingers crossed for everything else falling into place as well.


----------



## co-op (Feb 7, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Confirmation email received and forwarded to private account.
> 
> <pops cork>


 
Brilliant result. And good on you for fighting it, I think a lot of people let themselves get bullied out in this kind of situation.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2012)

The bullying was unpleasant and took it's toll. But hey new dawn and new day.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 7, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Just had meeting with CEO and Chair. They are agreeable to paying my three months notice.  I have about 5 hours left here.
> 
> What made me quite happy was seeing my boss drinking water out of THAT glass whilst we were having the discussion.


 fuckin ACE! yay


----------



## StoneRoad (Feb 8, 2012)

Good one, TC - hope all the other things sort out as well.....best wishes.....


----------



## Quartz (Feb 8, 2012)

Well done!


----------



## Thimble Queen (Feb 13, 2012)

glad you got this sorted mate x


----------



## TopCat (Feb 27, 2012)

I got a cheque for three months money and no tax and NI deducted. This underpins the next few months and is very welcome. Minor Operation on back today, interview tomorrow for new job, trial very soon. One step at a time eh!!!


----------



## Blagsta (Feb 27, 2012)

Jammy sod


----------



## Blagsta (Feb 27, 2012)

Apart from the back and possible prison sentence of course!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 27, 2012)

I _may_ get the all clear, get acquitted and get the new job! Otherwise I will have a good rest in the big house and come out to pick over the wreckage of my life. This is going to be some week.


----------



## Blagsta (Feb 27, 2012)

Good luck!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 27, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I got a cheque for three months money


 




TopCat said:


> and no tax and NI deducted.


 




TopCat said:


> Minor Operation on back today


 




TopCat said:


> interview tomorrow for new job


 




TopCat said:


> trial very soon.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 27, 2012)

This is the week that was.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 28, 2012)

Now have a hole in my back and am a bit sore but off to the interview we go.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 28, 2012)

good luck!


----------



## Random (Feb 28, 2012)

Good luck


----------



## kittyP (Feb 28, 2012)

Good luck TC x x


----------



## Crispy (Feb 28, 2012)

Go get em tiger


----------



## past caring (Feb 28, 2012)

When we having that pint? Maybe need to organise something involving more than just you and me before toothbrush day.

Hope it's good news with the job.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 28, 2012)

Hope the back is ok (I've had minor back surgery too), hope the interview went ok, and best of luck for the trial.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 28, 2012)

I got the job.  One more step eh?


----------



## Belushi (Feb 28, 2012)

Well done mate!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 28, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I got the job.  One more step eh?


 
TopCat by name. Well done.


----------



## Greebo (Feb 28, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I got the job.  One more step eh?


Brilliant!  I hope the third thing you're facing goes as well as the other two.


----------



## Voley (Feb 28, 2012)

Nice one, TC. Fuck me your life's been a rollercoaster of late though eh?  All the best for the trial.


----------



## Quartz (Feb 28, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I got the job.  One more step eh?


 
Well done!


----------



## grit (Feb 28, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I got the job.  One more step eh?


 
That post made my fucking day


----------



## Crispy (Feb 28, 2012)

When you're done, you take it easy for a bit, you hear?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 28, 2012)

well done TC


----------



## scifisam (Feb 29, 2012)

Blimey, it's been an eventful year for you so far, hasn't it? Bloody well done for staying calm and professional and getting such a good deal out of it. Fingers crossed the trial has as good an outcome.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 29, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I got the job.  One more step eh?


Woohoo!!!! Nice one, pleased for you


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 29, 2012)

It is of course compulsory to let your former colleagues know what a great new job you've landed


----------



## Corax (Feb 29, 2012)

Trial?  I must have missed that bit.  Good luck with it anyway, and congrats on the new job.  Least you deserve after going through the wringer like that.


----------



## twentythreedom (Feb 29, 2012)

you da man TC!


----------



## RaverDrew (Feb 29, 2012)

Gwan TC   big ups !!!


----------



## Random (Feb 29, 2012)

great news on the job


----------



## TopCat (Feb 29, 2012)

One last jump to clear. At least the waiting is over.  One love.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 29, 2012)

See you on the other side!


----------



## past caring (Feb 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> See you on the other inside!


 
Bastard!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Feb 29, 2012)

Thinking of you today, TC.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Feb 29, 2012)

Do we know the outcome yet?


----------



## StoneRoad (Feb 29, 2012)

congrats on the two out of three positives so far....
nope on the current situation info front, but got my fingers crossed - just in case.....


----------



## john x (Feb 29, 2012)

Just sent you a text mate!

I hope the absence of a reply is due to you going to bed early and not because you are in the big house! 

john x


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 1, 2012)

Hope it went ok topcat


----------



## ymu (Mar 1, 2012)

Good work. 

Hope the other thang went well too.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 1, 2012)

It will all be over soon enough. Just one more time into the breach dear friends...


----------



## ymu (Mar 1, 2012)

Dammit, thought it was all over when I saw your name on as the last poster.

Best of luck.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 1, 2012)

TopCat said:


> It will all be over soon enough. Just one more time into the breach dear friends...


Good luck with the trial.


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 1, 2012)

Best of luck TC, fingers crossed!


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2012)

TopCat said:
			
		

> It will all be over soon enough. Just one more time into the breach dear friends...



Best of tc, if it goes bad you'll be supported, don't worry on that front.


----------



## Voley (Mar 1, 2012)

Good luck, tc.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 1, 2012)

Any news anyone?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 1, 2012)

I got a text saying 'one more day in court to go' this afternoon. No idea if it's actually from today, or a delayed sending from yesterday.


----------



## Corax (Mar 1, 2012)

Sounds like a full-blown case if it's taking up that much court time, so I'm guessing the stakes are reasonably high.  Is the court thingy public knowledge?  Ignore this if not.

Hope you manage to relax this evening TC, and put it all from your mind and sleep well.  Sounds like this time tomorrow it'll all be over and you can concentrate on looking forward to your new job!


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## Crispy (Mar 1, 2012)

Best not to discuss the case itself till it's over. He's said himself that it's jail if he's found guilty, so all fingers crossed!


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## EastEnder (Mar 1, 2012)

Hope we hear something soon....


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## Mation (Mar 1, 2012)

Yep, fingers crossed.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2012)

all best wishes, tc


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## TopCat (Mar 1, 2012)

One love you good people. I can't say much here right now. <chuffed appreciative smile here>


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## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2012)

TopCat said:


> One love you good people. I can't say much here right now. <chuffed appreciative smile here>


you'd better be fucking coming out for a drink on the weekend


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## TopCat (Mar 2, 2012)

I got Beeches Brook to jump mate.


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## Voley (Mar 2, 2012)

Hope you sail over Beechers Brook safely and land back here in one piece soon.


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## TopCat (Mar 2, 2012)

Here we go once more. Ta for the support.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 2, 2012)

Good luck mate.


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## The39thStep (Mar 2, 2012)

Fingers crossed


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## sleaterkinney (Mar 2, 2012)

Good luck


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## Belushi (Mar 2, 2012)

Best of luck mate!


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## Termite Man (Mar 2, 2012)

Good Luck.


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## Thimble Queen (Mar 2, 2012)

Thinking of you mate x


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## grit (Mar 2, 2012)




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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2012)

grit said:


>


Don't be a tease, please!


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## EastEnder (Mar 2, 2012)




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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2012)

EastEnder said:


>


I always said to myself, "that Eastender, he should be a comedian" but you just reminded me I was thinking of someone else, not you. So sorry.


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## RaverDrew (Mar 2, 2012)

good news ?


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## grit (Mar 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Don't be a tease, please!


 
The future is bright.


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## EastEnder (Mar 2, 2012)

I imagine he'll be back on the thread shortly...


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## idumea (Mar 2, 2012)




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## Corax (Mar 2, 2012)

No black cloth then?


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2012)

Dur, Crispy not check texts


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## equationgirl (Mar 2, 2012)

Well??????

The suspense is killing me.


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## quimcunx (Mar 2, 2012)

grit said:


> The future is bright.


 






?


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## Corax (Mar 2, 2012)

I hope he hid things up his arse before he went into court.

Not to smuggle them into prison or anything.  Just cos it's a fun game.


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## kittyP (Mar 2, 2012)

come on come on come on


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2012)

Is everybody just being super polite or something? Any reason why I shouldn't just open my big mouth?


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## 5t3IIa (Mar 2, 2012)

Subtle, not super polite?


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 2, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Subtle, not super polite?


Unless he's actually been convicted and sent down for a year, there's nowt subtle about all the ing!


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2012)

Either way, did I miss a memo?


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## 5t3IIa (Mar 2, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Unless he's actually been convicted and sent down for a year, there's nowt subtle about all the ing!


 
That's what I thought :d

Crispy - perhaps waiting for the big man to announce it himself is considered polite? I don't know. Seems a bit _too _polite


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## Corax (Mar 2, 2012)

Can we visit him?


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## kittyP (Mar 2, 2012)

I don't think anyone is being that subtle but we should really wait for him to come and spill the beans, whatever the outcome......


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## Corax (Mar 2, 2012)

kittyP said:


> I don't think anyone is being that subtle but we should really wait for him to come and spill the beans, whatever the outcome......


It's pretty obvious already. 

I'm really sorry TC.  Will they hold the job?  Do you know anyone in the big house who can vouch for you with the various gangs?


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## ymu (Mar 2, 2012)

This fucking better not be a wind-up. I'm going with the big grin for now.



/hopeless optimist


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## past caring (Mar 2, 2012)

Cunt will be down the boozer pissing it up - and who can blame him? 

Am somewhat miffed at not getting the invite if so, mind.


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## Jon-of-arc (Mar 2, 2012)

Is it ok to ask what he didnt do now?


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## past caring (Mar 2, 2012)

It is on the boards for those that want to look (don't think he edited the posts).


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## Edie (Mar 2, 2012)

shit was his court case today? (I've not been about).

TC? Hope it went well mate x


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2012)

Edie said:


> shit was his court case today? (I've not been about).
> 
> TC? Hope it went well mate x


Last *three* days!

And fuck it, it's home time and he's probably in the pub already so:

Not Guilty


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## john x (Mar 2, 2012)

Edie said:


> shit was his court case today? (I've not been about).
> 
> TC? Hope it went well mate x


Started on Wednesday.

john x


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## ddraig (Mar 2, 2012)

fucking YAY! 
nice one, chuffed for ya TC
don't go getting knicked on yer bender now 

well done, rest easy


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## Edie (Mar 2, 2012)

Get yourself a skinful mate


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## butchersapron (Mar 2, 2012)

Jury trial. Get fucked met.


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## RaverDrew (Mar 2, 2012)

Party time !!!


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## kittyP (Mar 2, 2012)

Massive massive 's all round


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## john x (Mar 2, 2012)

Just in case people are still confused about the actual status of this case.

I can officially confirm that TC has been found NOT GUILTY!   

john x


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## past caring (Mar 2, 2012)

So when's the celebratory booze up? I mean the organised one - not the impromptu one that's going on right now.

Come on TC, you know you want to.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2012)

Vy good news hope yr up for a jar on sun


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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh - and get yr brief on the case for malicious prosecution


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## Voley (Mar 2, 2012)

Oh fuck me that is ace news.


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 2, 2012)




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## killer b (Mar 2, 2012)

thank fuck for that. good work TC.


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## Mation (Mar 2, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Crispy - perhaps waiting for the big man to announce it himself is considered polite?


aye


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## crustychick (Mar 2, 2012)

phew! very happy to hear the good news TC! yaaay! hope you're having an almighty celebration right now


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## Mation (Mar 2, 2012)

Mation said:


> aye


 
And          YAY!!!!!!!!!!


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## TopCat (Mar 2, 2012)

Hello everyone.   I add to my audio favorites the sound of a woman saying "not guilty". . I am very relieved. Having a quiet glass of wine.  Maybe come out to play later.  

For those who know the details of the case please don't post them on the internet. I don't want my name linked with my nome de plume here. 

What a week!


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 2, 2012)




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## Pickman's model (Mar 2, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Hello everyone.  I add to my audio favorites the sound of a woman saying "not guilty". . I am very relieved. Having a quiet glass of wine.  Maybe come out to play later.
> 
> For those who know the details of the case please don't post them on the internet. I don't want my name linked with my nome de plume here.
> 
> What a week!


have a glass for me


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## weepiper (Mar 2, 2012)

What with all the weight that's been lifted off your shoulders this week you must be floating about a foot off the ground. Top news.


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## Roadkill (Mar 2, 2012)

Nice one TopCat.


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## lizzieloo (Mar 2, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Hello everyone.  I add to my audio favorites the sound of a woman saying "not guilty". . I am very relieved. Having a quiet glass of wine.  Maybe come out to play later.
> 
> For those who know the details of the case please don't post them on the internet. I don't want my name linked with my nome de plume here.
> 
> What a week!


 
Dunno what you're on about but as I have a champers in my hand sounds like I should raise it to you

*cheers*


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## 5t3IIa (Mar 2, 2012)

Funny fucker. Well done for getting away with it


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## stethoscope (Mar 2, 2012)

W00t! Nice one TC


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## ymu (Mar 2, 2012)

Mation said:


> aye


Noooo. How worried do you think we'd all be by now if we'd heard nothing? Crispy performed a valuable public service whilst freeing TC to get rat-arsed. Perfick, and no doubt what TC intended.


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## tendril (Mar 2, 2012)

TopCat said:


> Hello everyone.  I add to my audio favorites the sound of a woman saying "not guilty". . I am very relieved. Having a quiet glass of wine.  Maybe come out to play later.
> 
> For those who know the details of the case please don't post them on the internet. I don't want my name linked with my nome de plume here.
> 
> What a week!


Step outside. With your run of good luck you're sure to find a tenner on the ground


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## EastEnder (Mar 2, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I am very relieved. Having a quiet glass of wine.  Maybe come out to play later.


I hope we will have the pleasure of your suitably relieved self at some point over the weekend!


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## equationgirl (Mar 2, 2012)

Brilliant news TC - nice one! Have a drink for me.


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## TopCat (Mar 3, 2012)

I start my new job on Monday.

Thanks people for the support. I'm striving hard for a quiet period in my life so hopefully will have no criseses requiring assistance for a while.


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## Belushi (Mar 3, 2012)

Really chuffed for you TC!


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## The39thStep (Mar 3, 2012)

Back of the net TC!

Here's to a better year


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## Thimble Queen (Mar 3, 2012)

Brilliant news.... really pleased for you mate x


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## TopCat (May 3, 2012)

The new job is going well. I am debt free as I paid it all off with last redundancy/notice payment. I am happily living permanently with GF and have got my cat back. <huge fuck off grin>


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## Pickman's model (May 3, 2012)

TopCat said:


> The new job is going well. I am debt free as I paid it all off with last redundancy/notice payment. I am happily living permanently with GF and have got my cat back. <huge fuck off grin>


I hope this is where someone says " and they all lived happily ever after"

Fuck knows you deserve that sort of happy ending after the turmoil of the last few years


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## TopCat (May 3, 2012)

Oh and the mole was not cancerous!!!!


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## Pickman's model (May 3, 2012)




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## Random (May 3, 2012)

Have been away for a while, and only just seen this. Great news! It all looked so dark for a bit, but am really glad for you that it's turned around so fast.


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## Puddy_Tat (May 3, 2012)




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