# Apple iPad 2 tablet: chats, opinions, discussions, rants etc



## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

It's about to be launched, so here's a shiny new iThread for all the reaction, chat and other stuff.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

Oh, and you can get second by second coverage of the event here, if that's your thing:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/02/live-from-apples-ipad-2-event/
http://gizmodo.com/#!5774431/ipad-2-meta-liveblog-today
http://www.tipb.com/2011/03/02/ipad-2-event-meta-liveblog/


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## ernestolynch (Mar 2, 2011)

It's like football replica shirt madness for rich nerds.


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2011)

Steve Jobs is on stage! ON STAGE!!


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 2, 2011)

I love the engadget reporting



> 10:03AM Standing ovation for Steve Jobs. People are flipping out. He looks good!


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

iPads are being used to work with Autistic children. This is pretty cool.





> "We're not curing Autism, but it's helping."


Barf.


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## ernestolynch (Mar 2, 2011)

Saint Steve of Jobs


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## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

65000 iPad - 100 Android 3 App.

See, all about the apps and to some extent services which have yet to really arrive, they know it and they are going to be hammering this out as hard as they can.  Its a huge competitive advantage.

Oh look its exactly the same, just a lot thinner, weighs just the same.


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## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

I have to hand it to them, a truly great bit of design for the cover.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

That is a very un-Apple esque botch.


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## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

Their video cable for the iPod is much the same.


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## fractionMan (Mar 2, 2011)

> 10:17AM Steve is back.
> 
> 10:17AM Phil: This is just the beginning.
> 
> ...



Actual LOL


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2011)

Covers!!!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2011)

White, like on the iPhone, looks crap...


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## fractionMan (Mar 2, 2011)

Wow, who would have thought of that.  Covers for things.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

Apple finally caught up with the rest and is offering a personal hot spot feature. But it's iPhone 4 only.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2011)

iMovie for iPad, could be fun, wonder if it will have connectivity with iPhone 4? Filming on your phone then editing on a bigger but portable tablet could be useful.


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## tarannau (Mar 2, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Wow, who would have thought of that.  Covers for things.


 
It's pretty natty to be fair. I was a bit underwhelmed at first mention, but after bothering to look at the Engadget love in, it's hard not to be at least slightly impressed of a magnetic protective cover that cleans your screen when on and that folds up to become a screen holder or rest. It will sell in bucketloads if it's as good as it first appears.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

tarannau said:


> It's pretty natty to be fair


Oy! Have you been looking at my Wirefresh article?!!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2011)

Those covers are pricey but the magnetic thing is kinda interesting...


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## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Apple finally caught up with the rest and is offering a personal hot spot feature. But it's iPhone 4 only.


 
If you have the tethering option.


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## tarannau (Mar 2, 2011)

editor said:


> Oy! Have you been looking at my Wirefresh article?!!


 
Nope, although I applaud your plugging efforts. I'm barely back home tbf


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2011)

Given that i won't be buying one its the software that excites me. Garageband looks very capable, and FINALLY i can stream my iTunes over wifi.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

tarannau said:


> Nope, although I applaud your plugging efforts.


I wasn't  "plugging" it - I just commented that you used the exact same phrase as I did a few minutes earlier.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

"We're not curing Autism, but it's helping," says Apple as the glossy presentation cuts to a child using an iPad.

That's all very nice but I think it would help a shit load more if they gave them away to autistic children instead of raking in obscene profits from sales to those very same families.


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## hendo (Mar 2, 2011)

I reckon I'll buy one. Hell I might line up on the first day. Just to piss off Ernesto.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2011)

It's nice...and maybe the stupid amount of rumours have got me cofuzzled but I can't but help feel this is a stop gap product...


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## Winot (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> If you have the tethering option.


 
How much is that?  Presumably it has to be quite high or there's no point getting a 3G iPad?


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## mauvais (Mar 2, 2011)

Is there any point at all to it yet? 'Something else to do while watching TV' doesn't count.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's nice...and maybe the stupid amount of rumours have got me cofuzzled but I can't but help feel this is a stop gap product...


It really is the most minor of upgrades compared to the over-inflated hype balloon that went up beforehand. A lovely machine for sure, but still no SD card slot, still no built in USB, still no built in HDMI, still the same screen res. But you do get a pretty case if you spend extra.

I'm not even sure it's justified a thread of its own, to be honest.


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## Chairman Meow (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm getting one. Its pretty.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2011)

editor said:


> I'm not even sure it's justified a thread of its own, to be honest.


 
We should probably merge this thread with the existing iPad one before we start getting too many duplicate comments.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2011)

Good post I think by Robert Scoble on what is now the current state of the market:


> We now know what the choice is:
> 
> 1. Apple iPad 2. Has apps.
> 2. Motorola Xoom. Has no apps.
> ...


http://scobleizer.com/2011/03/02/no...motorola-xoom-vs-rim-playbook-vs-hp-touchpad/


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 2, 2011)

but google never was behind android for tablets...  we're still waiting for chrome os right?


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2011)

Eh? Honeycomb is purposemadefor tablets.
ChromeOS is dead on arrival, IMO.


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2011)

Oh and yes, merge back into previous ipad thread. We don't start new threads for new iphone models for example.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Good post I think by Robert Scoble on what is now the current state of the market:
> 
> http://scobleizer.com/2011/03/02/no...motorola-xoom-vs-rim-playbook-vs-hp-touchpad/


*Only* if you want a largish, rather heavy and expensive iPad-sized tablet and don't mind not having any SD card support or the ability to use a stylus (which for some is a Very Useful Thing). I'm sure that for most consumers the iPad is a fabulous creation, but it's not what everyone wants.


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## ChrisFilter (Mar 2, 2011)

Meh. But as expected. It's just an iPad with more memory. Nothing to attract people who were disinterested before, but likely to pick up those who were a) waiting for the second iteration and b) those who were thinking of getting an iPad 1 now.

A big factor on sales will be if it's offered on a contract from launch as the iPad 1 is now. If it's sold for £99 upfront then a £25pm 24 month data contract from Orange as per the current iPad then I might be interested. It's another £170 over the 2 year contract, but you do get data with it and the staggered contract is a lot easier to swallow.


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## Crispy (Mar 2, 2011)

The 16GB wifi iPad1 is now £329 http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad?mco=OTY2ODA0NQ
Cheap enough for sunray yet? 

You seriously considering getting one on contract? Seems like such a bad deal, over the time of the contract. Would you really be using 3G all the time?


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

I really couldn't justify buying *any* tablet on a contact. If I was that desperate for 3G I'd just hook it up to my phone.


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## dogmatique (Mar 2, 2011)

Work pays for the 15 quid a month "pay as you go" o2 3G access - and to be honest it's a right friggin rip off as I hardly *ever* use it on 3G, but we're obliged to keep paying for those rare occasions that I use it away from either home or work.  I'd much prefer a top up that doesn't bleedin run out after 30 days - that way we'd probably only pay 15 quid a year.  But that's never gonna happen, is it?


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2011)

editor said:


> *Only* if you want a largish, rather heavy and expensive iPad-sized tablet and don't mind not having any SD card support or the ability to use a stylus (which for some is a Very Useful Thing). I'm sure that for most consumers the iPad is a fabulous creation, but it's not what everyone wants.


 Then they don't want any of the others there either.

(Stylus? I have a stylus which I use regularly  )


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2011)

Contract no, payg 3G yes. I like the look of the new iPad, haven't got number 1 and want a tablet at some point just have this feeling this is going to be upgraded sooner than later. Also, new iPhone soon, tons of high powered Android phones to consider, my 3GS is really showing its age now so the next big purchase will be a phone not tablet...


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## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Then they don't want any of the others there either.
> 
> (Stylus? I have a stylus which I use regularly  )


Easy on the cod confusion please! The iPad does not ship with a stylus and I imagine only a microscopic amount of its users have even heard of the ones you can buy for it.

The HTC Flyer - _if_ it delivers on its promises - is quite a different proposition to the iPad and most definitely has its own strengths which some people might find far more useful for their needs.


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## paolo (Mar 3, 2011)

Why is this a new thread?


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## ChrisFilter (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You seriously considering getting one on contract? Seems like such a bad deal, over the time of the contract. Would you really be using 3G all the time?


 
£700 over 2 years inc data vs £529 outright. I know I'm shit with credit cards and the debt would linger for longer than 2 years. At least on a contract the end is in sight.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Why is this a new thread?


Good question. And an important question too.

My preliminary research has discovered that new threads have been started by different posters for other new tablet announcements, so I would say that this thread is simply following that established trend.

Some examples for you to peruse:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...r-7-quot-note-taking-Android-tablet-announced
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/334462-RIM-s-PlayBook-(yet-another-tablet)
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/341926-Acer-7-inch-Android-tablet-gets-early-hands-on
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...piron-Duo-netbook-tablet-Can-the-iPad-do-this

HTH. HAND.


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## paolo (Mar 3, 2011)

That's clarified things for your moderators, as well as me. TYFBACT.


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## Sunray (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The 16GB wifi iPad1 is now £329 http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad?mco=OTY2ODA0NQ
> *Cheap enough for sunray yet?*
> 
> You seriously considering getting one on contract? Seems like such a bad deal, over the time of the contract. Would you really be using 3G all the time?


 
Nope, certainly not for that partially functional block of lead.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> That's clarified things for your moderators, as well as me. TYFBACT.


Not really. There's no hard and fast rules here, I'm merely pointing out that several posters in the past have started new threads for new tablets.


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## paolo (Mar 3, 2011)

Why have you posted pictures relating to the long-term banned Tobyjug?


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## strung out (Mar 3, 2011)

why not? i might post some pictures of bagels in a bit.


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## paolo (Mar 3, 2011)

My favourite is smoked salmon and cream cheese.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Why have you posted pictures relating to the long-term banned Tobyjug?


You're full of questions today!

Seeing as you asked, it moderately amused me to see the two images juxtaposed together for old time's sake, and seems about as relevant to the thread as your probing, Paxman-esque line of questioning.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> My favourite is smoked salmon and cream cheese.


Toasted everything bagel with cream cheese please, served with hot coffee and a fast wi-fi connection at the Atlas cafe in Brookyln for me, please.


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## paolo (Mar 3, 2011)

The initial question was preceded by suggestions by your moderators. You've clarified your position with regards to both. No more questions.


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## Kanda (Mar 3, 2011)

Meh...


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## Throbbing Angel (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The 16GB wifi iPad1 is now £329 http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad?mco=OTY2ODA0NQ



How much where they before...£429? My memory is fkn shocking this week.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Eh? Honeycomb is purposemadefor tablets.
> ChromeOS is dead on arrival, IMO.


 
ah i see,  toimes have changed a bit since i last looked into this


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

Yesterday, I was surprised to see they haven't dropped ChromeOS development. There seems to be too much crossover with Android. I know it's a netbook operating system and that, but that ship has sailed.


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## maldwyn (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The 16GB wifi iPad1 is now £329


Or £289.00 if you go for a refurb http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FB292B/A?mco=MjEzNTIxMjE


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Or £289.00 if you go for a refurb http://store.apple.com/uk/product/FB292B/A?mco=MjEzNTIxMjE



That says £379


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

With an iPad 2 will I be able to stream my music and movies from a mounted samba share on my network? 

e2a and photos.


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## Throbbing Angel (Mar 3, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> That says £379


 says £289 for me


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## maldwyn (Mar 3, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> That says £379


The page re-set, a quick look in the refurb section shows a 16g still available for £289.00.


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 3, 2011)

.


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## gabi (Mar 3, 2011)

Two questions..

Can I run skype on this? And what's the sound quality like - ie, will I need to buy a dock for it (if they exist?)


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## mauvais (Mar 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Good post I think by Robert Scoble on what is now the current state of the market:
> 
> 
> > We now know what the choice is:
> ...


Don't agree with that at all, apart from the HP bit.

The same was true of Android phone apps at first and now look where we are. Tablet apps won't be far away regardless of Google IO.

The Playbook is actually really nice and I was surprised by how slick it was.

None of this considers the areas where the iPad doesn't play either, like in anything remotely removed from consumers - you might write that off as minor, but lots of people are doing B2B on Android, and that is after all most of what keeps RIM afloat.


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> The page re-set, a quick look in the refurb section shows a 16g still available for £289.00.



It still says £379 for me, even if I search through the refurb section.


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## Crispy (Mar 3, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> With an iPad 2 will I be able to stream my music and movies from a mounted samba share on my network?
> 
> e2a and photos.


 
You can do this already with 3rd party apps like Stream2me, but it's as clunky as browsing files on a SMB share can be.

OS4.3, for all iOS devices, will finally let you stream from an itunes library. So you'll need a mac or windows box running iTunes to get the seamless, slick experience.


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You can do this already with 3rd party apps like Stream2me, but it's as clunky as browsing files on a SMB share can be.
> 
> OS4.3, for all iOS devices, will finally let you stream from an itunes library. So you'll need a mac or windows box running iTunes to get the seamless, slick experience.



I've currently got a USB drive attached to my router, but I can't install stuff on it. Might repurpose my old netbook to act as a NAS with the USB drive attached. I can stick squeezebox server on it then too. I can also AirPrint to my printer then.


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## kabbes (Mar 3, 2011)

You can buy an SD reader that slots into a USB for less than a fiver, so that's not really a downside.

I'm out of touch with the whole iPad thing -- is it now adequately multi-tasking?  At the time of the first release, I seem to remember that being an issue.


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

kabbes said:


> You can buy an SD reader that slots into a USB for less than a fiver, so that's not really a downside.



Was that in response to me? If so, you've misunderstood what I've said, or I haven't written it properly.


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## Crispy (Mar 3, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> I've currently got a USB drive attached to my router, but I can't install stuff on it. Might repurpose my old netbook to act as a NAS with the USB drive attached. I can stick squeezebox server on it then too. I can also AirPrint to my printer then.


 
Yeah, a 'dumb' share doesn't really cut it these days IMO. I'm tempted myself to get some sort of low power pc I can leave on all the time for streaming stuff (and plug it into the telly too)


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## kabbes (Mar 3, 2011)

No, fen_boy, it wasn't to you at all.  It was a general point.  If anything, it was mostly imspired by ed's early posts on the thread.


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

kabbes said:


> No, fen_boy, it wasn't to you at all.  It was a general point.  If anything, it was mostly imspired by ed's early posts on the thread.



OK, good. I was confuddled.


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## Crispy (Mar 3, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> It still says £379 for me, even if I search through the refurb section.


 
It's definitely there for 289 on the ipad refurbs page. http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/ipad?mco=OTY2ODcwMQ


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## twistedAM (Mar 3, 2011)

Way-hey, Apple use London band Windmill's music on their propaganda film:


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## fen_boy (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It's definitely there for 289 on the ipad refurbs page. http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/ipad?mco=OTY2ODcwMQ



Got it, if you click the 'iPad wifi' link under Refurbished iPads it's not there, but if you just click 'Refurbished iPads' it is.


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## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

Well I've had a look finally at the iPad 2........I honestly cant see why I'd want to sell my iPad 1 to buy this.....

Not saying its not good, and the product line didnt need an update, but its not enough of an update to get me to sell my ipad 1 which i got in november...... It seems I got mine brand new for the price their selling on the apple store now, which is what I thought was a justifiable price in the first place.


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## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

editor said:


> "We're not curing Autism, but it's helping," says Apple as the glossy presentation cuts to a child using an iPad.
> 
> That's all very nice but I think it would help a shit load more if they gave them away to autistic children instead of raking in obscene profits from sales to those very same families.


 
I'd always thought that iPads should be used in schools and couldnt understand why not, but thinking about it, the schools aren't going to want to employ developers to design their apps for them, but at the same time they're not going to want to have hundreds of itunes accounts for different ipads to buy the software that way as they're more used to getting discounts on volume licenses...... Apple have bassically cut themselves of from this market, but still purport to be doing good...... pisses me off a bit tbh.

However they do have massive potential with regards to e-learning and virtual learning environments....... I've had some ideas for this market, but dont know where to fucking start


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## Crispy (Mar 3, 2011)

Don't they have systems for business that allow management of multiple iDevices?


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## Winot (Mar 3, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Well I've had a look finally at the iPad 2........I honestly cant see why I'd want to sell my iPad 1 to buy this.....
> 
> Not saying its not good, and the product line didnt need an update, but its not enough of an update to get me to sell my ipad 1 which i got in november...... It seems I got mine brand new for the price their selling on the apple store now, which is what I thought was a justifiable price in the first place.


 
What I was looking for in iPad2 was a device which was lighter with more system memory - personally don't care about cameras/SD cards/USB as for me it's primarily a device for surfing/e-mail/apps around the house and for the occasional plane trip.  Looks like they've achieved that and added a sexy cover (call me shallow).  So I will probably get one and sell mine if the price is right or otherwise donate it to my parents.


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## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Don't they have systems for business that allow management of multiple iDevices?


 
But from all accounts they're nowhere near up to the standard or cost effectiveness of blackberry.......


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## Crispy (Mar 3, 2011)

I bet they're not, but they should be good enough for schools?


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## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

Winot said:


> What I was looking for in iPad2 was a device which was lighter with more system memory - personally don't care about cameras/SD cards/USB as for me it's primarily a device for surfing/e-mail/apps around the house and for the occasional plane trip.  Looks like they've achieved that and added a sexy cover (call me shallow).  So I will probably get one and sell mine if the price is right or otherwise donate it to my parents.



Actually the more I look, the more I like, if it was the same pricing structure as the US (equiv of £305 for the bottom wifi model) then I'd sell mine, and buy one in a shot........ but at £429 I cant see how thats brill value for money for something with such little storage.

However, I am going abroad in 8 weeks, so might see how much they are duty free


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 3, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I'd always thought that iPads should be used in schools and couldnt understand why not, but thinking about it, the schools aren't going to want to employ developers to design their apps for them, but at the same time they're not going to want to have hundreds of itunes accounts for different ipads to buy the software that way as they're more used to getting discounts on volume licenses...... Apple have bassically cut themselves of from this market, but still purport to be doing good...... pisses me off a bit tbh.
> 
> However they do have massive potential with regards to e-learning and virtual learning environments....... I've had some ideas for this market, but dont know where to fucking start


 
There's huge interest in it from schools and there are some places even trialling using iPads as primary devices. This guy for instance - http://speirs.org/ - does a lot of work in the area; he's written about deployment of apps at some length.


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## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There's huge interest in it from schools and there are some places even trialling using iPads as primary devices. This guy for instance - http://speirs.org/ - does a lot of work in the area; he's written about deployment of apps at some length.


 
Well there's huge interest from schools where the council is forward thinking with regard to e-learning and makes funding available.

Also thats an american blog.......... From my point of view working in a number of colleges, both VLE and portable device for E-learning has been pretty slow in the UK...... For a mixture of reasons, mainly financial because of portable devices (plus reluctance from IT depts), and VLE wise, because software has been built solely as a reference for courses, rather than implementing a institute wise social network, which would have da yoot hooked, because its like facebook for their school iyswim.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

The school bullies and muggers are going to have field day if the KidZ are walking around with iPads in their bags.


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## Kanda (Mar 3, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Also thats an american blog..........


 
No it's not.



> I don't know whether I or my Apple reps in Scotland will be more delighted that iPad 2 supports full video mirroring.


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## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

Kanda said:


> No it's not.


 
He keeps talking about $ instead of £....... 

I certainly know in surrey few or no schools are investing in idevices/tablets...

I know of some over in dartford though, but thats because the local authority is doing it.


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## Kanda (Mar 3, 2011)

sim667 said:


> He keeps talking about $ instead of £.......
> 
> I certainly know in surrey few or no schools are investing in idevices/tablets...
> 
> I know of some over in dartford though, but thats because the local authority is doing it.


 
http://speirs.org/about/ and he teaches here: http://cedars.inverclyde.sch.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm not sure how comfy I am with the idea of schools having to buy expensive hardware with no choice of suppliers.

Whilst equivalent android tablets are expensive they will come down in price.


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## g force (Mar 3, 2011)

Which is why, esp in hard times they still buy Viglen/Dell kit and because MS actually does a lot of decent edu stuff - support, help desks, software upgrades etc.

iPads would be great learning tools but the price is prohibitive.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> I'm not sure how comfy I am with the idea of schools having to buy expensive hardware with no choice of suppliers.
> 
> Whilst equivalent android tablets are expensive they will come down in price.


Does a child need an *iPad*? Is that really the best, most cost effective tool for students' needs?


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 3, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Well there's huge interest from schools where the council is forward thinking with regard to e-learning and makes funding available.
> 
> Also thats an american blog.......... From my point of view working in a number of colleges, both VLE and portable device for E-learning has been pretty slow in the UK...... For a mixture of reasons, mainly financial because of portable devices (plus reluctance from IT depts), and VLE wise, because software has been built solely as a reference for courses, rather than implementing a institute wise social network, which would have da yoot hooked, because its like facebook for their school iyswim.


 
It's not an American blog, he's Scottish.

Sure, adoption of new tech that requires a financial outlay - and movement outside of existing suppliers/contracts - is always going to be a bit slow, but that's for reasons that you mention rather than because of significant issues with the infrastructure, updating and so on. Funding and IT reluctance and lack of case studies will mean this sort of thing takes a long time to penetrate. I think there is a lot of _interest_ though in the sense that people working in the area seem to be interested in the possibilities. It will take a lot of actual grounded examples of how it could work before it starts to expand, but people are doing that, and there are some very impressive results so far.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 3, 2011)

editor said:


> Does a child need an *iPad*? Is that really the best, most cost effective tool for students' needs?


 
I can see how they would fit into a traditional classroom setup better then computers, but I'd want to see a lot more specific apps for tablets before we start spending cash on them.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

Ipad cover.. bath cover...  







http://www.tuaw.com/2011/03/03/new-ipad-2-smart-covers-inspired-by-japanese-bath-tub-lids/


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## strung out (Mar 3, 2011)

that's a very small bath


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## Kanda (Mar 3, 2011)

Apple Offering $100 Refunds to Recent iPad Customers

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/03/apple-offering-100-refunds-to-recent-ipad-customers/


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

editor said:


> The school bullies and muggers are going to have field day if the KidZ are walking around with iPads in their bags.


 
Not if they get one each and have to hand it in at the end of lessons.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

strung out said:


> that's a very small bath


 
It's a fucking sink not a bath!


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not if they get one each and have to hand it in at the end of lessons.


Schools better up their security big style if they're going to have storerooms bulging with high end, highly desirable tablets. Or they could just get a load of netbooks for a fraction of the price.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

editor said:


> Schools better up their security big style if they're going to have storerooms bulging with high end, highly desirable tablets. Or they could just get a load of netbooks for a fraction of the price.


 
You know not all schools are this escape from new york style hell-hole you're describing...


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You know not all schools are this escape from new york style hell-hole you're describing...


I'm not describing a "hell hole" at all. Theft from schools has been a big problem since even I was a nipper, and the more juicy the goodies being stored, the more tempting targets they'll become.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 3, 2011)

People already nick computers, and lots of other things, from schools. You have cameras and locks and stuff, the usual.


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## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> People already nick computers, and lots of other things, from schools. You have cameras and locks and stuff, the usual.


 
People do often steal stuff from school, the last four colleges have had a number of items stolen, including 30 iMacs from one. However very few of them had any real security measures, only 2 have had insurance, 2 of which also have no cameras


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 3, 2011)

sim667 said:


> People do often steal stuff from school, the last four colleges have had a number of items stolen, including 30 iMacs from one. However very few of them had any real security measures, only 2 have had insurance, 2 of which also have no cameras


 
Well, true. However, what I mean is that it's not intrinsically different protecting iPads to anything else valuable, you need security.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, true. However, what I mean is that it's not intrinsically different protecting iPads to anything else valuable, you need security.


But stuffing a school full of extremely desirable consumer items - as opposed to, say, some no-brand but perfectly capable cheapo laptops - will most certainly make breaking into a school a far more rewarding and attractive option to ne'er do wells.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

Schools have tons of pricey things in it already, don't remember a mad crime wave of school break ins across the UK recently...


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 3, 2011)

editor said:


> But stuffing a school full of extremely desirable consumer items - as opposed to, say, some no-brand but perfectly capable cheapo laptops - will most certainly make breaking into a school a far more rewarding and attractive option to ne'er do wells.



If we're going to go down that route - and I don't think there would be any different security issue in practice - iPads would be much more easily secured than desktops and even laptops because of their size. You could put an entire class' iPads in a smallish safe at the end of the day; no issues with cameras being needed. As well as that they have built-in GPS locating services and remote wiping.

But as I say I don't think it would change anything whatsoever.


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## editor (Mar 3, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Schools have tons of pricey things in it already, don't remember a mad crime wave of school break ins across the UK recently...


Oh, OK. Suddenly filling schools with the latest, must-have desirable gadget will have no impact whatsoever then. Thanks for clearing that up.

Meanwhile:


> POLICE are hunting a gang of three men they believe are behind the theft of around £30,000 worth of computers from two Taunton schools.
> 
> Detectives are studying CCTV images of the thieves at The Taunton Academy, in Cheddon Road, where 12 Apple Macs were stolen between 8pm last Thursday and 7am the following day.
> 
> Academy bosses had taken extra security measures after 20 Apple Macs were taken from Bishop Fox’s Community School at about midday on Wednesday, November 10.


http://www.somersetcountygazette.co...711106.Thieves_target_school_computers_again/


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## Kanda (Mar 3, 2011)

Most.ridiculous.argument.ever.

Geezus  

Who really gives a fuck? If they have iPads, let them have iPads, if they don't, they don't.... fucksake...


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## Crispy (Mar 3, 2011)

There are schools that hand out laptops on a per-class basis. How would this be any different?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

editor said:


> Oh, OK. Suddenly filling schools with the latest, must-have desirable gadget will have no impact whatsoever then. Thanks for clearing that up.
> 
> Meanwhile:
> 
> http://www.somersetcountygazette.co...711106.Thieves_target_school_computers_again/


 
Actually the idiocy is your argument that it will be so out of control. I never said it might not happen, I'm just questioning your absurd assertion that schools can't deal with having expensive equipment without having it ransacked by students! You're attempt to criticise this is nearing parody!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> There are schools that hand out laptops on a per-class basis. How would this be any different?


 
Yep and surprising there's no daily mail like hysteria from the Ed about how they could provoke a nationwide crime wave!


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

Crispy said:


> There are schools that hand out laptops on a per-class basis. How would this be any different?


I've never seen lines of high fiving people queueing all night for the launch of an Asus netbook. Does that suggest a clue as to how iPads might be different?



Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep and surprising there's no daily mail like hysteria from the Ed about how they could provoke a nationwide crime wave!



"hysteria" "crime wave"



Back on topic, do you think that schools buying very expensive iPads represents the best and most cost effective use of shrinking resources, and do you think it's a good move for schools to buy into a closed and rather pricey monopolistic ecosystem?

I've nothing against iPads - they're lovely machines - but I'm finding it rather hard to justify why kids should be equipped with machines that the majority of tax payers can't even afford for themselves.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 4, 2011)

Fine. You don't like iPads, in schools at least (for whom I don't know but that's not the point here I suppose). I think that's been quite adequately indicated here. Oh they'll be stolen oh they're useless and waste of money. Whatever.


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## Crispy (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> I've never seen lines of high fiving people queueing all night for the launch of an Asus netbook. Does that suggest a clue as to how iPads might be different?



Jesus. You're obsessed, you really are.


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## kabbes (Mar 4, 2011)

In my day it was blackboards and exercise books.  If it was good enough for me...


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## elbows (Mar 4, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Jesus. You're obsessed, you really are.


 
There is no other sensible conclusion really is there. What a way to go. A tragic side-effect of hype, that is now more disproportionate than the original hype that made this monster. And even more pointless when it is considered, in the cold hype-free light of day, that this forum was never full of drooling apple fan boys in the first place.


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm with ed tbh.  iPads are far more likely to be nicked imo.  They're smaller and easier to conceal too.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 4, 2011)

@ Crispy, Yep. It's certainly starting to look that way...


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 4, 2011)

starting?


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## elbows (Mar 4, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> starting?


 
Easy for you to say. When its dark at night you arent visited by visions of insane hollering crowds, inserting apples into unspeakable orifices, worshiping non-sir Jobs, oozing hype and tech-blubber, suffocating the great android hope, and thrusting themselves into every corner of respectable society using their black arts. Ohhh the pain, ohhh the horror, tis truly the new dark ages, a whole culture enslaved by unibody manufacturing techniques and sold out by journalists. Who will save us from these beasts?


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Jesus. You're obsessed, you really are.


Funnily enough, it's actually the other way around. But I don't expect you'll see that.

It's not like I've making an outrageous claim or anything, but just the simple observation that if you fill  a school with hugely desirable consumer items there's an increased likelihood that people will try and nick them. Is an iPad more desirable - or more to the point, easier to sell on - than an Asus netbook? 

I'd say that's pretty much obvious, but even this simple comment ends up being something that has to be defended to the last by you and others who take it as some of insult to the great name of Apple.


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## Crispy (Mar 4, 2011)

If you were a regular poster, I'd have sent you a polite PM asking you to wind in your weird apple obsession a long time ago, but you're the boss so you go ahead.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

Crispy said:


> If you were a regular poster, I'd have sent you a polite PM asking you to wind in your weird apple obsession a long time ago, but you're the boss so you go ahead.


And there you go again. It's like some people turn into Scientologists when you mention their brand of computer. 
FYI, my comments aren't "weird," but your reaction most certainly is.  My posts are absolutely on topic and relevant.

Oh, and nice cheap 'boss' comment too.


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## elbows (Mar 4, 2011)

When I was at school the main risk to ipads, had they existed back then, would have been damage more than theft. Calculators with graph functions were not immune from the sharp point of a compass inflicting great suffering upon the screen. Do kids still have compasses these days?

At my dads school they have experimented with Windows tablets quite some years back, and wear & tear etc was an issue for sure. The lack of physical buttons, hinges or removable parts makes the ipads a little more durable in some ways, but I would still expect them to get battle-damaged fairly easily.

I doubt we are going to see every kid being given an ipad in the near future, although if that happens one day then hopefully there will be so many ipads out there by then that theft issues will diminish somewhat. I'm still waiting for more people to own tablets so that I dont feel like such a plonk when I get my ipad out.


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## elbows (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> And there you go again. It's like some people turn into Scientologists when you mention their brand of computer.
> FYI, my comments aren't "weird," but your reaction most certainly is.  My posts are absolutely on topic and relevant.
> 
> Oh, and nice cheap 'boss' comment too.


 
It would be helpful if you could concede just a teeny weeny little bit. Not asking you to have a complete change of heart or anything, only that you should recognise that the sheer volume of anti-apple and pro-anything-else posts and threads that you have started does rather give the impression that you are obsessed. Its your own fault, even if you remain oblivious to it. I dont blame you for ignoring such comments from the likes of me, but have you no desire to question yourself when people who have a decent track record and thus are worthy of some respect such as Crispy make the point? No, instead you think everyone who makes these points is a weirdo, you resort to the most basic defensive moves. Its your loss at the end of the day, even if you cant see it.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

elbows said:


> I doubt we are going to see every kid being given an ipad in the near future, although if that happens one day then hopefully there will be so many ipads out there by then that theft issues will diminish somewhat. I'm still waiting for more people to own tablets so that I dont feel like such a plonk when I get my ipad out.


My main objection really is the cost: desirable though they are, I just can't see the purchase of such expensive consumer equipment being justifiable when there's cheaper (and admittedly less attractive and 'cool') alternatives.

Besides, presumably kids will need to be doing a lot of typing and that's one area where the iPad certainly lags behind a traditional laptop.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

elbows said:


> It would be helpful if you could concede just a teeny weeny little bit. Not asking you to have a complete change of heart or anything, only that you should recognise that the sheer volume of anti-apple and pro-anything-else posts and threads that you have started does rather give the impression that you are obsessed. Its your own fault, even if you remain oblivious to it.


You see here's where you're _spectacularly_ missing the point. I make a single point and then a fucking army comes into defend Apple over the tiniest matter and my valid criticism suddenly becomes an "obsession". _That_ is the problem.


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

Elbows; Depends how you monitor their use (sign out/in, some kind of deposit system etc), where they're used (anchored in classroom, IT, library etc). You can track these things.


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> You see here's where you're _spectacularly_ missing the point. I make a single point and then a fucking army comes into defend Apple over the tiniest matter and my valid criticism suddenly becomes an "obsession". _That_ is the problem.


 
There's not an army of people leaping to the defence of apple ffs ed, you weren't even criticising Apple, you were criticising school's lack of security concerns.


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## RaverDrew (Mar 4, 2011)

Top trolling editor


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

Cid said:


> There's not an army of people leaping to the defence of apple ffs ed, you weren't even criticising Apple, you were criticising school's lack of security concerns.


Yet I get called "obsessed" and "anti-Apple" for making that point. That's what pisses me off.


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

I don't think ed's particularly anti-apple or obsessed.



His point seems to be perfectly valid.  Fill a school with easily nickable high tech expensive items and some of them are going to go missing.  The more expensive and/or desirable they are, the more likely they are to be nicked.

Simple.


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## Kanda (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> Yet I get called "obsessed" and "anti-Apple" for making that point. That's what pisses me off.


 
I think it was the fanboi clapping and cheering bit that you bought up for no real reason that got people going...


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

But they are ridiculous fanbois, clapping and cheering some capitalist goon for taking their money with a shiney new (adult!,new!,autismhelping!,cool!, desirable!,downwiththekidsyetokformiddlethirties!) toy


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I don't think ed's particularly anti-apple or obsessed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That's always been a problem for schools, fuck, my school had a load of SA80 rifles stored on site (jokes about SA80s not being worth nicking aside). You just adapt the security.


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## Kanda (Mar 4, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> But they are ridiculous fanbois, clapping and cheering some capitalist goon for taking their money with a shiney new (adult!,new!,autismhelping!,cool!, desirable!,downwiththekidsyetokformiddlethirties!) toy


 
Yes they are but was it really neccessary to bring that up in the context here? 

(note I haven't criticised what has been said, just pointing out why people have reacted, I can't be arsed  with it)


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Cid said:


> That's always been a problem for schools, fuck, my school had a load of SA80 rifles stored on site (jokes about SA80s not being worth nicking aside). You just adapt the security.


 
The most desirable thing at my school was magnesium wire.  Everything else was shit.


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Yes they are but was it really neccessary to bring that up in the context here?
> 
> (note I haven't criticised what has been said, just pointing out why people have reacted, I can't be arsed  with it)


 
It's a thread about the iPad2 _release_ and _launch_.  So yes.


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> But they are ridiculous fanbois, clapping and cheering some capitalist goon for taking their money with a shiney new (adult!,new!,autismhelping!,cool!, desirable!,downwiththekidsyetokformiddlethirties!) toy


 
Yes, there are some awful fanboys, just like people who queue for the latest console/game, Harry Potter film etc. So what? it's not relevant to the discussion.


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Cid said:


> Yes, there are some awful fanboys, just like people who queue for the latest console/game, Harry Potter film etc. So what? it's not relevant to the discussion.


 
I think it is.  I'd poke just as much fun at any other bunch of obsessed nutjobs.


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> It's a thread about the iPad2 _release_ and _launch_.  So yes.


 
The point wasn't in relation to the launch though, it was about schools adopting them.


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Well my personal though is that schools buying into proprietary systems like the iPad is a bad thing.  There are other more open systems they should be adopting instead.  And they should make them fuck ugly like RMs so nobody wants to steal them.


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Well my personal though is that schools buying into proprietary systems like the iPad is a bad thing.  There are other more open systems they should be adopting instead.  And they should make them fuck ugly like RMs so nobody wants to steal them.


 
I do kind of agree, but iPads are just really nice to use... As well as being completely intuitive. I suppose teaching pupils how an OS works just isn't at the top of a lot of school's priorities, which is kind of regrettable given that it might links nicely into maths/science education.

There also the point that they're a lot more likely to end up with decent education apps than similar devices.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I think it was the fanboi clapping and cheering bit that you bought up for no real reason that got people going...


Actually, I was making the very relevant and valid point about how desirable iPads are compared to run of the mill Asus netbooks. People don't queue up overnight for the launch of an Asus netbook because they're pretty much devoid of a wow factor. The iPad has that in spades and is therefore a more steal-able product, which was the point being discussed.


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

Cid said:


> I do kind of agree, but iPads are just really nice to use... As well as being completely intuitive. I suppose teaching pupils how an OS works just isn't at the top of a lot of school's priorities, which is kind of regrettable given that it might links nicely into maths/science education.
> 
> There also the point that they're a lot more likely to end up with decent education apps than similar devices.



Why?

Anyone writing education apps will target the platform schools use.  Considering how much they cost I'm sure they'd like to make 30% more by avoiding the apple store too.  Open source university developed education VLE software is almost bound top be on non-apple OSes.

For the case of 'select an app' other touch screens are almost exactly the same to use.

I'm not dissing the iPad here, just it's use in schools.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Well my personal though is that schools buying into proprietary systems like the iPad is a bad thing.  There are other more open systems they should be adopting instead.  And they should make them fuck ugly like RMs so nobody wants to steal them.


I agree wholeheartedly. And with all the cuts going on, shelling out for iPads seems a luxury that's very hard to justify.


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## fractionMan (Mar 4, 2011)

It stinks of the old RM will supply the hardware (Shit and overpriced) and Microsoft the software (Shit and overpriced) that they're still having to deal with today.  I can understand the microsoft thing, but the RM thing was mental.


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## Kanda (Mar 4, 2011)

Have you seen the fee structure for the school mentioned in the thread??



> The fees for primary 1 - 7 classes are £3950 per year.
> The fees for Secondary 1 - Secondary 3 classes are £5950 per year.
> The fees for Secondary 4 - Secondary 6 classes are £6250 per year.



Am sure they can afford the luxury! 



> We are the first school in the world with a 1:1 iPad deployment for every pupil from P1 - S5.



http://cedars.inverclyde.sch.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> It really is the most minor of upgrades compared to the over-inflated hype balloon that went up beforehand. A lovely machine for sure, but still no SD card slot, still no built in USB, still no built in HDMI, still the same screen res. But you do get a pretty case if you spend extra.
> 
> I'm not even sure it's justified a thread of its own, to be honest.


 
This is also a pretty ridiculous point, it's got a dual core processor, vastly improved graphics, an accelerometer (or 'gyrsocope' because Steve's down with teh kids. Admittedly this is aso a feature that should have been in the first one) and an updated form factor. At face value it's a complete overhaul. At face value. Engadget seem to think it matches expectations to at least an extent though.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

Cid said:


> This is also a pretty ridiculous point, it's got a dual core processor, vastly improved graphics, an accelerometer (or 'gyrsocope' because Steve's down with teh kids. Admittedly this is aso a feature that should have been in the first one) and an updated form factor. At face value it's a complete overhaul. At face value. Engadget seem to think it matches expectations to at least an extent though.


I can only give my opinion, and for me it's still missing an awful lot of features I would like and failed to live up to the (as usual) immense hype. 

I rather go along with BGR's take on the launch:


> Apple’s iPad, and consumer tablets in general, are still just toys. Fun toys, of course, but toys nevertheless. Simply put, they can’t replace any consumer electronics device that was on the market before Apple kicked off the tablet craze last year. They can perform plenty of tasks quite well, but not better than the other device they might hope to replace. When it comes to watching movies, a TV is best. When it comes to working, a laptop is best. When it comes to browsing or sending emails on the go, a smartphone is best. And so on. I would like to have seen Apple introduce some compelling new use cases for the iPad — some innovative new functionality that makes the iPad “the best” at something. As it stands, Apple’s second-generation tablet is still only best at being a sexy, expensive, ultimately expendable toy.
> 
> http://www.bgr.com/2011/03/02/apples-ipad-2-might-be-magical-but-it-still-shouldve-been-better/


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 4, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> It stinks of the old RM will supply the hardware (Shit and overpriced) and Microsoft the software (Shit and overpriced) that they're still having to deal with today.  I can understand the microsoft thing, but the RM thing was mental.


 
The major plus point of RM hardware was the RM Connect networking tools that came with them. It made admin of a schools network a lot easier for non techie staff.


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## Crispy (Mar 4, 2011)

Actually, the ipad1 has an accelerometer, the ipad2 has a gyroscope. much more accurate and responsive.

Not a gryroscope that spins, but one that vibrates - think about foucault's pendulum.


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> I can only give my opinion, and for me it's still missing an awful lot of features I would like and failed to live up to the (as usual) immense hype.
> 
> I rather go along with BGR's take on the launch:



Yeah, but we all know that's not how Apple's business model works. You'll never get the kind of stuff you want on it, simply because the kind of work you do is completely in opposition to way that they do business. For other people they can be useful... I'm very tempted, looks like it could be a great way to organise presentations for clients, I can't really justify the cost though.


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## Cid (Mar 4, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Actually, the ipad1 has an accelerometer, the ipad2 has a gyroscope. much more accurate and responsive.
> 
> Not a gryroscope that spins, but one that vibrates - think about foucault's pendulum.


 
Oh right. Well... 

um.

It was his picture of a gyroscope that I took issue with ok!


----------



## sim667 (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> I agree wholeheartedly. And with all the cuts going on, shelling out for iPads seems a luxury that's very hard to justify.


 
Well it balances out, if the cost of having a bunch of ipads in a trolley which can be moved from classroom to classroom is cheaper than having an IT suite full of machines, that can only be used by one class at a time, and can only be used for that one purpose, then your argument that iPads are a luxury becomes null and void, because it could be argued they are a compromise  ...... And that is a choice that schools and colleges face all too often.


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## Sunray (Mar 4, 2011)

mauvais said:


> Don't agree with that at all, apart from the HP bit.
> 
> The same was true of Android phone apps at first and now look where we are. Tablet apps won't be far away regardless of Google IO.
> 
> ...


 
Android Phone were written because there is quite an installed base of Android phones.  That base came about because Android phones were offered free and cheap by operators and they are phones.

As these devices aren't really phones they generally are not offered cheap or free and they are primarily a computer rather than a phone.

Why would you buy a computer that has no applications over one that costs less and has thousands?


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## mauvais (Mar 4, 2011)

I don't buy that at all. What early Android phones were offered for free?

Developers develop for it because of faith in Google, because it's another route to market, because they're early adopters, and because it's easy.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

mauvais said:


> I don't buy that at all. What early Android phones were offered for free?
> 
> Developers develop for it because of faith in Google, because it's another route to market, because they're early adopters, and because it's easy.


And perhaps because they prefer Google's less-restrictive, less censorial, less controlling approach too.


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## mauvais (Mar 4, 2011)

It's a factor, although there's not many ideals going on to be honest.

That you can do it on a PC, that development is free and immediate, that emulators were available long before the real hardware, that Google apps like Maps were available from the start, that it has non-consumer uses, that it was a fresh slate so your stupid noddy fart app made money simply because it was the first on the platform... and more... everything there contributed to Android getting adopted by developers. It wasn't operator subsidies or a weird quirk of fate or magic.

Tablet apps are only different in that the platform and hardware is arriving at a faster rate - to play catchup with iPad - so initially there are less available apps than when the real phones began.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

Apple clearly has the app advantage at the moment, but it's only a matter of time before a huge range of software is available for Android tablets:



> Google's Android Spurs More App Jobs Than iPhone
> Online job board Dice.com says its listings show demand for developers of Android applications has eclipsed the desire for Apple app developers
> 
> Software engineers skilled in making applications for Google's (GOOG) Android mobile-operating system this week became more sought-after than developers for Apple's (AAPL) iPhone, according to online job board Dice.com.
> ...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 4, 2011)

editor said:


> Apple clearly has the app advantage at the moment, but it's only a matter of time before a huge range of software is available for Android tablets:


 
TBH I'm not even sure where they do other in games...sure you can get more apps for the iphone, but I haven't found anything I want to do on android that I can't and mates with iphones can.


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

Beyond fail.



> We still have a full 4 days to go, but it looks like lines for the iPad 2 release on March 11th have already started forming outside of an Apple Store in Texas.



http://www.tipb.com/2011/03/07/ipad-2-lines-forming-texas-apple-store/



Mind you, the comments are fun:



> He is just trying to get his name on the news and blogs,, I guess he has had success





> How much success can you really say you have when you are being blogged and discussed about as being the number 1 total loser?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

mauvais said:


> I don't buy that at all. What early Android phones were offered for free?
> 
> Developers develop for it because of faith in Google, because it's another route to market, because they're early adopters, and because it's easy.


 
Developers will make apps for platforms they think or know are successful...demand n supply innit.


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## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Developers will make apps for platforms they think or know are successful...demand n supply innit.


That's more or less it, but don't discount the hardy individuals who develop for a platform because they just love it (think: the guys still developing Palm OS apps!).


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## mauvais (Mar 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Developers will make apps for platforms they think or know are successful...demand n supply innit.


 Have you worked out what my job is yet?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

Black people can now enjoy this product too!


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## pk (Mar 9, 2011)

It must rank as the only Apple product I don't actually want. I fail to see why people would buy a new iPad2 when for the same money they could buy a decent second hand MacBook.

Waiting for the optical version of the Thunderbolt MacBook Pro and I'll be upgrading then, should be able to pick up compatible Lacie drives by the summer, all looking good speedwise.

Ten times quicker than Firewire800, yes please.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 9, 2011)

pk said:


> I fail to see why people would buy a new iPad2 when for the same money they could buy a decent second hand MacBook.


 
Lighter, smaller, easier to use, longer battery life, less conspicuous around the home.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Mar 9, 2011)

I'd rather have an ipad than a laptop.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 10, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'd rather have an ipad than a laptop.


 
Have a Macbook pro, now redundant due to iPad. No reason to carry Pro at all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 10, 2011)

There's no way I'd have either a MBP or iPad, MBP is just too useful for the things I need to do. iPad would be a nice addition to my laptop but it can't, at present, replace it.


----------



## elbows (Mar 10, 2011)

Some early reviews are out. Battery still impressive but not quite as good as original ipad. Cameras very poor at taking still photos. Fast, stable, thin, weight difference just about noticeable. Angled ports make plugging cables in slightly harder. Some questions about the new cover and whether it comes open too easily.

Its upset the competition for sure.


----------



## elbows (Mar 10, 2011)

Having read some further reviews, there seems to be some question over whether the battery performance is a little worse, or actually a little better. Either way it seems considerably better than the competition at this stage. The benchmarks are quite impressive, RAM seems to be confirmed as having doubled to 512MB, and the thinness sounds like it improves the overall user experience.


----------



## editor (Mar 10, 2011)

The iPad 2 is easily the best all round package for people that want a largish screen tablet. 

Doesn't mean it's the best for _everyone_, mind.


----------



## _angel_ (Mar 10, 2011)

editor said:


> "We're not curing Autism, but it's helping," says Apple as the glossy presentation cuts to a child using an iPad.
> 
> That's all very nice but I think it would help a shit load more if they gave them away to autistic children instead of raking in obscene profits from sales to those very same families.


 

It would get broken in no time here!


----------



## nick h. (Mar 11, 2011)

Look - it says 'ere you can use the cover to power it on and off! http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/technology/12faster.html?_r=1&nl=technology&emc=techupdateema1 How cool is that?

More cunning stunts here


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 11, 2011)

Heh that's amusing that someone would sit there and think 'how does it work' like that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 13, 2011)

Interesting benchmarking:









> What's most revealing in AnandTech's testing is how greatly improved the iPad 2's graphics are compared to the original iPad. AnandTech tested the iPad 2's PowerVR SGX 543MP2 GPU against the original iPad and the Motorola Xoom, and the iPad 2 outperformed both of them significantly. More than that, actually -- in terms of performance on AnandTech's benchmarks, the iPad 2 destroyed both the original iPad and the Xoom. Neither device was even close to replicating the iPad 2's graphical performance.
> 
> A handful of developers have already pushed out updated apps that take advantage of the iPad 2's graphics hardware, including Firemint's Real Racing 2 HD and Chair's Infinity Blade. While the iPad 2's screen resolution is unchanged from the original iPad, its more powerful GPU has allowed developers to increase the level of detail and lighting effects in their games. AnandTech has a mouseover pic comparing Infinity Blade's appearance on the original iPad versus the iPad 2-optimized graphics, and the difference is easy to see.
> 
> As more developers begin tailoring their apps' graphics to the iPad 2's impressive hardware, it's entirely possible that gaming might see a new surge on the iOS platform. Meanwhile, if you're interested in a deep dive into the iPad 2's hardware, definitely check out AnandTech's review



With gaming set to become a big battleground it looks like Apple are betting on it standing out from the crowd in this area.


----------



## editor (Mar 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Interesting benchmarking:
> --- With gaming set to become a big battleground it looks like Apple are betting on it standing out from the crowd in this area.




The iPad 2 _completely_ pwns the Xoom in almost all areas and is clearly a superior device, but, to be fair, the Xoom manages to put up a fight in some comparisons and significantly beats the iPad2 when it comes to the important area of browsing:





That said, unless the price of the Xoom is significantly reduced compared to the iPad, it's a hard one to recommend (unless people need the specific feature set of the device). 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4215/apple-ipad-2-benchmarked-dualcore-cortex-a9-powervr-sgx-543mp2/1


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 13, 2011)

editor said:


> The iPad 2 _completely_ pwns the Xoom in almost all areas and is clearly a superior device, but, to be fair, the Xoom manages to put up a fight in some comparisons and significantly beats the iPad2 when it comes to the important area of browsing:
> 
> That said, unless the price of the Xoom is significantly reduced compared to the iPad, it's a hard one to recommend (unless people need the specific feature set of the device).
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4215/apple-ipad-2-benchmarked-dualcore-cortex-a9-powervr-sgx-543mp2/1


 
I think that's a fair comment tbh, time will tell I guess how important things like flash are when it comes to web browsing.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 16, 2011)

iMovie on the iPad2 outperforms a Macbook Pro _and_  a Mac Pro in some benchmarks, and is only narrowly beaten in others. http://www.tuaw.com/2011/03/15/imovie-on-ipad-2-beats-most-macs-in-benchmarks/

eg. Encoding a 720p video - 1m56s, compared to 2m15s on the Mac Pro. An edited video, with title overlays and slideshow images took 2m5s compared to 1m48s on the Mac Pro. This is incredibly impressive performance and make imovie on the ipad capable of serious work.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 16, 2011)

editor said:


> The iPad 2 _completely_ pwns the Xoom in almost all areas and is clearly a superior device


 
ed, your relentless Apple-bashing is becoming extremely tiresome.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 16, 2011)

Crispy said:


> iMovie on the iPad2 outperforms a Macbook Pro _and_  a Mac Pro in some benchmarks, and is only narrowly beaten in others. http://www.tuaw.com/2011/03/15/imovie-on-ipad-2-beats-most-macs-in-benchmarks/
> 
> eg. Encoding a 720p video - 1m56s, compared to 2m15s on the Mac Pro. An edited video, with title overlays and slideshow images took 2m5s compared to 1m48s on the Mac Pro. This is incredibly impressive performance and make imovie on the ipad capable of serious work.


 
That's crazy! Watched a short film the other day shot entirely on iPhone 4 and edited on iPads. Amazing world we live in now...



(note to anti Apple brigade: this isn't Apple fanboism, it's the fact that you can make a film using mobile phones and tablet computers!)


----------



## elbows (Mar 20, 2011)

Crispy said:


> iMovie on the iPad2 outperforms a Macbook Pro _and_  a Mac Pro in some benchmarks, and is only narrowly beaten in others. http://www.tuaw.com/2011/03/15/imovie-on-ipad-2-beats-most-macs-in-benchmarks/
> 
> eg. Encoding a 720p video - 1m56s, compared to 2m15s on the Mac Pro. An edited video, with title overlays and slideshow images took 2m5s compared to 1m48s on the Mac Pro. This is incredibly impressive performance and make imovie on the ipad capable of serious work.


 
Yep, so long as the device you are using to capture footage uses the right sort of format, this tech is very attractive. Im going to see how well it works out with an ipad1 & sanyo xacti camera shortly 

Not 100% sure if that article took into account the possibility that there could be differences in the spec of the h.264 that the encoder generates between the desktop and ipad versions of imovie.
I've long been keen on hardware accelerated encoding of video, I have one of those Elgato h.264 encoders that is mentioned in that article, shame its the original non-hd one.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 22, 2011)

How did you get on elbows?

Pricing for the ipad2 is £30 lower than for the ipad1 - starts at £399 for the 16GB WiFi model.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> How did you get on elbows?
> 
> Pricing for the ipad2 is £30 lower than for the ipad1 - *starts at £399 for the 16GB WiFi model*.


 
I think thats a much better price point to start the range at. I always thought it should have been about £350 for the iPad and that £429 was simply on the wrong side of £400

I'd actually be tempted to change my 16gb iPad for an iPad for the £150 odd it would cost me.


----------



## elbows (Mar 23, 2011)

Crispy said:


> How did you get on elbows?
> 
> Pricing for the ipad2 is £30 lower than for the ipad1 - starts at £399 for the 16GB WiFi model.


 
I got distracted, will try again tonight Thats good news on the pricing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2011)

Cutting the price for the iPad2 is a very good move, the idea of getting one for £399 is very appealing...wonder if they'll pull the same trick with the iPhone 5?


----------



## Winot (Mar 23, 2011)

So does anyone know if there's going to be a pre-order this time? 

Not much time for it between now and Friday.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2011)

Just got an email from Apple announcing the launch, nothing about pre-order so I'd guess not.


----------



## elbows (Mar 23, 2011)

The word on the street is that you can order online from about 1am onwards on Friday. No idea if its true.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Mar 23, 2011)

As I a) have promised the Mrs I'll do the house up and b) will be getting a fully loaded Macbook Pro with new job I shall be resisting for the time being.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 23, 2011)

Hmmm, the tipping point of me getting an iPad is fast approaching.

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/mixers/m7cl/stagemix/

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/topics/news_release/nr_20110322.html


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2011)

Here's how you can win an iPad2. Dress up as an app. Soooo wacky!



http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/39265/orange-offers-alternative-ipad2-queue


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 24, 2011)

I dress as Fat Booth every day.


----------



## Ted Striker (Mar 24, 2011)

Silly question probably answered elsewhere - considering my first ever apple purchase with the ipad2 - if I want to watch vids on it, will I need to convert them every time? Is there a file-manager -esque drag and drop process or am I signing up to an itunes-esque managed life forever!?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Mar 24, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> I dress as Fat Booth every day.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2011)

If the iPad2 had USB port, HDMI port, SD card slot and Flash they would sell by the pure bucket load.

I'd buy one and I'd pay an extra £50 on top of the current price for those options.

So I really don't understand why Apple haven't included these features. It honestly seems to me like their feud with Adobe is cutting their own nose off to spite their faces.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> Here's how you can win an iPad2. Dress up as an app. Soooo wacky!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/39265/orange-offers-alternative-ipad2-queue


 


fen_boy said:


> I dress as Fat Booth every day.


 
I know a few Angry Birds.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Mar 24, 2011)

Gromit said:


> If the iPad2 had USB port, HDMI port, SD card slot and Flash they would sell by the pure bucket load.


 
They already are.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> They already are.


 
By bucket loads more than the bucket loads that are already being sold.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

Lol they sell millions adding an extra port really ain't gonna change much. Ask your average punter if they want a SD card port and I reckon most would say 'meh'.

HDMI ain't gonna happen if the rumours about Apple licensing 'Airplay' for TV makers come to anything...


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol they sell millions adding an extra port really ain't gonna change much. Ask your average punter if they want a SD card port and I reckon most would say 'meh'.
> 
> HDMI ain't gonna happen if the rumours about Apple licensing 'Airplay' for TV makers come to anything...


 
Ask your average punter if he'd like to be able to buy a 16gb version and then swap card content in and out across several £15 16GB SD cards?

32gb model is £80 more than the 16gb model. Thats 5 x 16gb SD cards.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

I've never known anyone to make that 'complaint' about the iPhone despite there being alternatives which allow it so can't see that being a big deal either for your average iPad owner...


----------



## sim667 (Mar 24, 2011)

Ted Striker said:


> Silly question probably answered elsewhere - considering my first ever apple purchase with the ipad2 - if I want to watch vids on it, will I need to convert them every time? Is there a file-manager -esque drag and drop process or am I signing up to an itunes-esque managed life forever!?


 
They need to be in mp4/avi i believe

I use handbrake with a preset to do most of mine, although I havent found how to do HD stuff for my apple tv yet.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've never known anyone to make that 'complaint' about the iPhone despite there being alternatives which allow it so can't see that being a big deal either for your average iPad owner...


 
Does the average iPhone user expect to use their device a lot for viewing large media files i.e. movies and playing a lot of high spec games.

The iPad is very much a gaming system and movie player by comparison (thanks to the large screen) and people will soon find themselve running out of space if they want to carry a lot of movie and game content at any one time.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2011)

Some sad twats are already queueing up:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/39272/ipad-2-queue-regent-street


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Does the average iPhone user expect to use their device a lot for viewing large media files i.e. movies and playing a lot of high spec games.
> 
> The iPad is very much a gaming system and movie player by comparison (thanks to the large screen) and people will soon find themselve running out of space if they want to carry a lot of movie and game content at any one time.


 
They use it for music but that's the point they like it because it just works, same reason the iPad does well it just works, you don't have to faff about sticking things into it etc to get a great experience from it out of the box.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2011)

/High Fives Jewles


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> Some sad twats are already queueing up:
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/39272/ipad-2-queue-regent-street


 
Don't these people have jobs?!


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They use it for music but that's the point they like it because it just works, same reason the iPad does well it just works, you don't have to faff about sticking things into it etc to get a great experience from it out of the box.


 
So none have never got frustrated cause their entire music collection didn't fit on the phone and they had to undergo a long resync when they wanted to swtich out large groups of songs to switch in others (instead of just being able to switch out a card).

p.s. I'm talking about myself above. Being a slave to resyncing was a pain as an iPhone user and not something I've had to experience with my HTC Desire and multiple cards.


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> Some sad twats are already queueing up:
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/39272/ipad-2-queue-regent-street


 
"Jewles Lewis"?  Sounds like a joke name.

I don't get this queueing for days for newly released tech products. It's not like they've only got a few and once they're sold out they're not going to get any more.  Just order online, and even if you don't get one of the first stock it's no great loss:  I ordered my iPhone 4 around release day, and even then the wait for dispatch was only a couple of weeks (in fact mine came much sooner than that).  I'd rather wait a couple of weeks than sit outside for days in the cold and/or wet.


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 24, 2011)

What do you do if you need a shit in one of these queues? Do they all carry around bags full of their own excreta?


----------



## electroplated (Mar 24, 2011)

i tried to install imovie on my ipad last night but it said it wasn't compatible as it didn't have a camera... bit gutted if it's ipad 2 only...

garageband on the other hand is fucking amazing and works perfectly.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 24, 2011)

Ted Striker said:


> Silly question probably answered elsewhere - considering my first ever apple purchase with the ipad2 - if I want to watch vids on it, will I need to convert them every time? Is there a file-manager -esque drag and drop process or am I signing up to an itunes-esque managed life forever!?


 
Three options:

1. Watch on the built-in Video app. Requires videos to be in H.264, in .mov or .mp4 containers. Most torrented stuff will need converting. iTunes required for sync.

2. Watch on a 3rd-party app. Plays any format, even some HD stuff. No conversion needed. iTunes required for sync.

3. Stream with live conversion (local network only). Install a small server prog on your PC which converts to H.264 on the fly and streams it over the network. Great for watching movies in bed


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

Gromit said:


> So none have never got frustrated cause their entire music collection didn't fit on the phone and they had to undergo a long resync when they wanted to swtich out large groups of songs to switch in others (instead of just being able to switch out a card).
> 
> p.s. I'm talking about myself above. Being a slave to resyncing was a pain as an iPhone user and not something I've had to experience with my HTC Desire and multiple cards.


 
None. Never heard of anyone having that problem. You're falling prey to a classic geek problem, thinking normal people are the same as you. I have 20 gigs of music on my iPhone normal people will barely have 3-4.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 24, 2011)

electroplated said:


> i tried to install imovie on my ipad last night but it said it wasn't compatible as it didn't have a camera... bit gutted if it's ipad 2 only...
> 
> garageband on the other hand is fucking amazing and works perfectly.


 
You can install imovie on an ipad 1 with a little bit of config file editing. no jailbreak required.

http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-install-imovie-on-ipad-1-guide/

Bear in mind that the process needs to be repeated after every iOS update


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2011)

This sounds great... 








> 5-in-1 Connection Kit for iPad
> This adapter helps you to connect your iPad to:
> - a TV for Video Playback (see notes below)
> - SD card for Data transfer
> ...



Until you realise that you can only connect _one thing at at time._


----------



## electroplated (Mar 24, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You can install imovie on an ipad 1 with a little bit of config file editing. no jailbreak required.
> 
> http://www.redmondpie.com/how-to-install-imovie-on-ipad-1-guide/
> 
> Bear in mind that the process needs to be repeated after every iOS update


 
wicked - cheers crispy


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> This sounds great...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
How many times does the average iPad own need to connect all that?


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How many times does the average iPad own need to connect all that?


You can't think of any instance where you'd be using, say, a keyboard and SD card reader at the same time? I can. Like every time I'm transferring images.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> You can't think of any instance where you'd be using, say, a keyboard and SD card reader at the same time? I can. Like every time I'm transferring images.


 
You'd use the software keyboard. Unless you're writing a huge document, why would you be using an external keyboard? Buy yourself a laptop...


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2011)

Kanda said:


> You'd use the software keyboard. Unless you're writing a huge document, why would you be using an external keyboard?.


Maybe because I'm a photo journalist and find typing on cold, unyielding and unresponsive glass rather unattractive?  

But you've said it yourself: I have no need of an expensive gadget like the iPad for my needs, and half-arsed botches like dongles and adapters don't make it any more enticing.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> This sounds great...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
The tv out should be hi-def too.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> But you've said it yourself: I have no need of an expensive gadget like the iPad for my needs, and half-arsed botches like dongles and adapters don't make it any more enticing.


 
Aye, you buy what you need to do a job, the iPad doesn't replace the need for a PC or Laptop.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2011)

editor said:


> You can't think of any instance where you'd be using, say, a keyboard and SD card reader at the same time? I can. Like every time I'm transferring images.


 
Not for your average user but then that doesn't include you so my point stands.

Tbh I'm a little puzzled why you care, you ain't buying an iPad anyway!


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 25, 2011)

So, anyone bought one yet?  I have!


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 25, 2011)

I struggled to avoid getting one this morning, but I managed it in the end. Can't really afford it.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

I can't work out what is sadder: idiots queuing for an iPad 2 or someone taking pictures of them : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/mar/25/ipad-2-apple-queues-australia

Mind you, the readers comments got it right: 


> Reporting on queues: embarrassing.
> 
> _Queues, ffs_.





> Much like I don't really care about the queues in the first place. News this is not. 4.5 million people in Sydney. The queue looks less than 200 at most.
> 2 million population in Brisbane. 300 people queuing. Shocking low turnout in all honesty for this 'magical' gadget. Which should really be the spin.
> Magical gadget isn't all that magic. Less than 0.015% turnout for overhyped product launch.



Observation on the whole queue hype: http://theorangeview.net/2011/03/apples-customer-unfriendly-ipad2-sales-plan/


----------



## Kanda (Mar 25, 2011)

Hype created by everyone but Apple, genius. 

You create more hype than Apple do Ed


----------



## strung out (Mar 25, 2011)

what queue hype? you just quoted a source saying there wasn't any queue hype.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Hype created by everyone but Apple, genius.
> 
> You create more hype than Apple do Ed


 
Aint that the truth. I only ever read anything about queues for Apple things because he keeps posting links, no joke!


----------



## magneze (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> I can't work out what is sadder: idiots queuing for an iPad 2 or someone taking pictures of them : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/mar/25/ipad-2-apple-queues-australia
> 
> Mind you, the readers comments got it right:
> 
> ...


from there:





> Canadian backpacker Alex Lee arrived in Sydney on Wednesday to be first in line to buy Apple's iPad 2 and has theorised on the phenomenon. "I call it the 90/10 rule for Apple - 90 per cent is about the people, the experience and just the whole feeling and 10 per cent is about the product itself," the IT consultant said.


----------



## nick h. (Mar 25, 2011)

I'll invite Alex Lee to Brixton so I can shove his iPad 2 up his arse.

Argos are getting them today. Let's all go and queue there.


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 25, 2011)

I haven't actually got mine yet.  I ordered online but they're saying delivery isn't going to be for a couple of weeks. 

I ordered last night and was hoping if I ordered early enough it'd get sent out straight away.  I was onto the Apple Store from about midnight, but as far as I could see the delivery times started out at 2-3 weeks even when they first went onlne.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 25, 2011)

I think I'm looking at getting one, come quarterly pay-day (April 1st, lol).

I'm sick to death of my data / thesis, and hoping that a gadget that I actually _want_ to work on (and which is, hopefully, more portable than my laptop) will make it happen rather better.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Kanda said:


> You create more hype than Apple do Ed


If only that were true, I'd have rows of idiots camped outside my house ready to hand over lots of money.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I think I'm looking at getting one, come quarterly pay-day (April 1st, lol).
> 
> I'm sick to death of my data / thesis, and hoping that a gadget that I actually _want_ to work on (and which is, hopefully, more portable than my laptop) will make it happen rather better.


Better get a proper keyboard to go with it then. Or maybe get a netbook with a good screen and keyboard for a fraction of the price.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 25, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I think I'm looking at getting one, come quarterly pay-day (April 1st, lol).
> 
> I'm sick to death of my data / thesis, and hoping that a gadget that I actually _want_ to work on (and which is, hopefully, more portable than my laptop) will make it happen rather better.


 
You'd be insane to write a thesis on one. Use a computer.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 25, 2011)

Poking at the queue marketing topic scab again...

Apple aren't exactly the only ones guilty of this (with the medias co-operation).

I can think of many computer games that people have queued for. Bigger queues than the latest Apple release. Call of Duty to name one. (Including midnight store openings etc.)

Also weren't Sony guilty of this with Playstation 3 too. One store giving away HD flat screen TVs to the first few purchasers to ensure their pre-sale queue.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> If only that were true, I'd have rows of idiots camped outside my house ready to hand over lots of money.


 
I mean you create more Apple hype than Apple


----------



## Scaggs (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> This sounds great...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I wonder if you could watch films stored on an SD card with that connected?


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Poking at the queue marketing topic scab again...
> 
> Apple aren't exactly the only ones guilty of this (with the medias co-operation).
> 
> I can think of many computer games that people have queued for. Bigger queues than the latest Apple release. Call of Duty to name one. (Including midnight store openings etc.)


Show me a media-saturated game launch that had people camping out for three days to be greeted by over-excited teams of employees wildly applauding, whooping, hi-fiving and hugging customers like long lost friends, or running around city blocks high fiving anyone in sight. 

Or perhaps one where people queued up overnight to be met by the same circus when there's actually _no new products on sale?_

Nah. Apple stands alone in encouraging and feeding this nonsense.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 25, 2011)

Does it actually actively feed and encourage it though?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 25, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Does it actually actively feed and encourage it though?


 
It encourages the hand clapping etc but it  doesn't post footage all over the place or devote column inches. People like Ed do that for them,  the haters probably hype Apple more than the fanbois.. it's fucking hilarious


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 25, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You'd be insane to write a thesis on one. Use a computer.


 
That's what I've been doing.

And that's what I'm struggling to engage with atm.

I was - definitely - looking at getting a proper keyboard to go with it. 

But, uh... my laptop isn't very mobile. At all. It requires a massive amount of upheaval to get it anywhere. 

One of the things that appeals to me about the _prospect_ of an iPad is not only the fact that I'd feel quite excited about using it _at all_; but also the potential to (e.g.) work in the garden, fuck off to the river for a couple of hours, work in college, etc.

I appreciate that's (theoretically) some of the advantages of a laptop; but mine has a shit battery life, and requires a suitcase-type carrying case. 

I also appreciate those're some of the benefits of a netbook; my difficulty there is that I'm not remotely excited about netbooks.

I should probably add that most of what I'd be doing with it'd be refining, editing, adding thoughts, etc. And, maybe, working with (say) 5-15 transcripts. Rather than massively substantial work.

e2a: I should also probably add that that'd be looking for an emotional response to a fundamentally emotional / psychological problem: getting over the difficulties / entrenched resistance of being a 3rd year PhD by trying to do something to make the process a bit more exciting).

Also, it looks like there is at least one pretty functional word processing programme - Papers?

e2a2: Pages, even.

e2a3: I should also probably add that I've previously wasted a couple of hours in the gym hammering out notes on my iPod  I can't believe that an iPad would be any less ridiculously inefficient than that


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## Gromit (Mar 25, 2011)

@Quoad

How about an Inspiron Duo instead?

Its a touch screen tablet AND its a laptop. Windows 7 and keyboard. 4 hours battery life replaceable battery.


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## Crispy (Mar 25, 2011)

Yeah but using windows software with a touchscreen is a horrible experience. You could get an ipad and pinch yourself in the dick every 5 minutes for a similar experience.


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Kanda said:


> It encourages the hand clapping etc but it  doesn't post footage all over the place or devote column inches. People like Ed do that for them,  the haters probably hype Apple more than the fanbois.. it's fucking hilarious


I'm not publicity in the shape of "look at those sad, corporate-worshipping twats queuing all night!" is particularly good for Apple, to be honest. But I do find them absolutely hilarious and just love seeing them. The best one was the Apple store launch where some fucking idiots queued for two days to get a.....t-shirt. LOL! Priceless!



Crispy said:


> Does it actually actively feed and encourage it though?


What, do you think all those Apple employees in matching t-shirts spontaneously break out into applause, cheers and high fiving and simply_ can't stop themselves_ running around the block with joy?!

Of course Apple actively feed it. It brings them awesome publicity and they're absolute masters of it - other companies look on with awe and jealousy.


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## Kanda (Mar 25, 2011)

They promote it in their own store.  Everyone else seems to do the Apple hyping out of store. Genius.


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> One of the things that appeals to me about the _prospect_ of an iPad is not only the fact that I'd feel quite excited about using it _at all_; but also the potential to (e.g.) work in the garden, fuck off to the river for a couple of hours, work in college, etc.
> 
> I appreciate that's (theoretically) some of the advantages of a laptop; but mine has a shit battery life, and requires a suitcase-type carrying case.


The new breed of netbooks have better battery lives than the iPad, better keyboards, better screens, are more flexible, can run more software, and are generally cheaper and a far better all round choice if you're in the business of creating content.

But if your main thing is consuming and browsing content and playing some games, then the iPad is perfect.


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## Crispy (Mar 25, 2011)

I'd be amazed if there's a netbook that can play movies non-stop for ten hours.


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## dogmatique (Mar 25, 2011)

Just spoken to a friend of a friend who works at the Apple store on Regent St - they have hardly any stock and if you don't get one tonight, they won't have any for some time - especially 3G ones...


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I'd be amazed if there's a netbook that can play movies non-stop for ten hours.


Not sure how often anyone would need to sit down for ten hours of non stop movies, but even cheapo netbooks offer 7+ hours with the option to swap batteries for another 7+ hours of non-stop movie mayhem. The new Lenovo X220 played back eight hours of movies in tests and with the extended battery managed 14 hours 30mins. But then a X220 is a different and more capable beast anyway.


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## Kanda (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> Not sure how often anyone would need to sit down for ten hours of non stop movies


 
Twice in the last week.. flights to Cape Town and back


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## mwgdrwg (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> Show me a media-saturated game launch that had people camping out for three days to be greeted by over-excited teams of employees wildly applauding, whooping, hi-fiving and hugging customers like long lost friends, or running around city blocks high fiving anyone in sight.
> 
> Or perhaps one where people queued up overnight to be met by the same circus when there's actually _no new products on sale?_
> 
> Nah. Apple stands alone in encouraging and feeding this nonsense.



Isaiah "TriForce" Johnson has had the police called on him for camping outside a Best Buy in anticipation of the launch of Nintendo's 3DS launch....

http://www.hookedgamers.com/blogs/joemorgan/2011/03/24/3ds_camper_gets_cops_called_on_him.html

If only this happened to iPad fans, eh Ed? 

(LOL'ing at the "TriForce")


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Twice in the last week.. flights to Cape Town and back


So you didn't bother watching any of the inflight entertainment or have a sleep or read a book or anything, but stared at your iPad _for the entire duration of both flights?_


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## Kanda (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> So you didn't bother watching any of the inflight entertainment or have a sleep or read a book or anything, but stared at your iPad _for the entire duration of both flights?_



Yes, I can't sleep on planes, especially when there's screaming kids all around. I used the time to start watching The Wire.... I wasn't bothered by the inflight as I'd seen all the films on it I wanted to.

Not just those flights, I flew to Italy and back too.. there was no inflight on that one


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 25, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> That's what I've been doing.
> 
> And that's what I'm struggling to engage with atm.
> 
> ...



This is almost exactly what I use my iPad for. I've calculated that I have maybe three hours in any one place before I have to move or change environments.

I've owned a perfectly capable netbook for a while but (a) shitty little keyboard (b) battery life not actually all that great if you _use_ it, and not as light as it looks either (c) standard desktop apps, no matter how customised, were never really well suited to the small screen (d) annoying startup and sleep times (e) bit boring really. I've owned a perfectly capable laptop for a while but as well as the battery issue - lots of fun finding power sockets - it was so bulky I didn't want to carry it unless I was actually going to an office, and even then I didn't really want to carry it.

The iPad is light, fits easily into any bag, has all-day battery life even with heavy use, has a selection of perfectly capable tools for planning, word processing, mindmapping, diagramming, spreadsheeting and so on despite all and sundry sneering that it's "just for consumption", is extremely good for browsing and reading (better than a full size laptop) and starts up and shuts down in fractions of a second. You can sling it in a bag and take it out anywhere and put it away again. I found this completely changed how I thought about wandering out of the house when I was bored and frustrated in a way that netbooks and laptops never did.

The major things about it that stop me from using it for full-time Proper Work all the time - I use a Macbook Air for that, which has a lot of the convenience/startup time advantages but also has a proper keyboard and a decent-sized screen - are:


 Text entry using touchscreen is not a lot of fun. Short emails, posts on boards, notes in a mindmap and other light typing, fine. Trying to write anything at any great length = annoying and causes swearing. Mostly it's the lack of physical feedback I think.
 While the BT keyboard is a good one (Apple ship the same one with new iMacs) it's awkward to deploy it casually. You have to turn it on and find somewhere to prop the iPad up. You can't really type with both of them on your lap like you can with a laptop. So it's only for distinct periods where you think "right I'm typing now".
 Interaction between apps is pretty poor. You should really expect to concentrate on one thing at a time. If you want to, say, C&P bits from several emails into a document, it would take forever.


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## Winot (Mar 25, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> So, anyone bought one yet?  I have!


 
black or white?


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The major things about it that stop me from using it for full-time Proper Work all the time - I use a Macbook Air for that, which has a lot of the convenience/startup time advantages but also has a proper keyboard and a decent-sized screen - are:
> 
> 
> Text entry using touchscreen is not a lot of fun. Short emails, posts on boards, notes in a mindmap and other light typing, fine. Trying to write anything at any great length = annoying and causes swearing. Mostly it's the lack of physical feedback I think.
> ...


And that's just about all the tasks that would be very important to someone writing their PhD.


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## Crispy (Mar 25, 2011)

"I should probably add that most of what I'd be doing with it'd be *refining, editing, adding thoughts*, etc. And, maybe, working with (say) 5-15 transcripts. *Rather than massively substantial work*."


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Crispy said:


> "I should probably add that most of what I'd be doing with it'd be *refining, editing, adding thoughts*, etc. And, maybe, working with (say) 5-15 transcripts. *Rather than massively substantial work*."


Yep. And still the iPad would be a very poor choice for such work, no matter how much bold text you put in. A cheaper, decent netbook with a proper keyboard remains the better option.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 25, 2011)

Actual netbooks (rather than small laptops - 9-10" screen, 4:3) do text entry about as well as tablets i.e. frustratingly. In actual fact a tablet with a proper external keyboard is better. As I said, the Apple BT keyboard is designed to be used with 27" desktops. Where they fall down is when you want to quickly switch between apps, some of which are designed for touch input and some of which are designed for keyboard.


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## Bungle73 (Mar 25, 2011)

Winot said:


> black or white?


Black, with a grey Smart Cover.

I noticed the despatch time has changed from the 2-3 weeks it said when I ordered mine, to 3-4 weeks.


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Actual netbooks (rather than small laptops - 9-10" screen, 4:3) do text entry about as well as tablets i.e. frustratingly. In actual fact a tablet with a proper external keyboard is better. As I said, the Apple BT keyboard is designed to be used with 27" desktops. Where they fall down is when you want to quickly switch between apps, some of which are designed for touch input and some of which are designed for keyboard.


Not entirely sure where you're getting this definition of a netbook _having_ to have a 9-10" screen from - I was always thought of it as more fluid definition based around overall size and price -  but even some of the ones with screens that small have near full size keyboards that are infinitely better than an iPad to type on.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 25, 2011)

I might add: one of the reasons I'm very, very seriously considering Apple over and above other brands is my recent experiences of Apple. Having spent the previous 3 or 4 years buying alternatives, based on cheaper specs (witness the perfectly-ok Dell laptop I'm on atm).

And, well, I've been blown away by what iPods - at least - can offer. And the ways in which they work, and the extent to which an iPod touch pisses all over an htc desire to an extent that's almost laughable. Well, would be laughable, if I hadn't paid so darned much for that htc contract.

I'll gladly own that - for the purposes I'm looking at - it may not fill all the headline specifications. I probably wasn't being entirely honest about the ways I'm hoping to use it. Because I'm trying to convince myself it _will_ be right, again because I'm mostly looking for an emotional solution to an emotional problem  Rather than, necessarily, the most rational decision.

If it isn't easy to set up casually, with a keyboard, tbh that'd be a bit of a bugger. I'm also - potentially - looking at doing _some_ quite long pieces of work on it; though mostly editing, tarting up, and things that won't require too many resources with me. Fridgey's description sounds powerfully appealing; though the cons are also a concern. Not a fatal concern, but a concern.

Re: netbooks. Yeaaaahhhh... now, where that's falling down for me, is on my previous experiences of the thousand little shortfalls between, well, the smoothness and polish of (say) my iPod and my Dell laptop, or my Desire. It can be relatively small things. Like reflections on a screen. Something that - IME - my iPod handles spectacularly; but which renders my laptop effectively useless outside. On, say, a sunny day. Likewise, I need to find the Right Kind of Shadow for my htc. 

Android's app store has also been - for me - a massive fail. The quality of apps, and other niggles (including foreign exchange charges on foreign currency transactions) mean... I... just... want... nothing whatsoever to do with that kinda thing for as  long as I'm walking and breathing. Or, hell, maybe I'll revisit Android in another 5-10 years. After the end of my current contract (another 6 months to go).

Battery life, too. My Dell is one helluva step up from my old... ummmm.... HP. It's got about 2 hours. Maybe 2.5 hours. Instead of 1.5.

Netbooks... windows 7... yes. That sounds lovely. And very sensible. And like an extraordinarily pragmatic solution.

But, you know what? I'm not remotely excited about those possibilities. Yay, I've got, basically, something that's almost identical to my laptop's capabilities, only it's a little bit smaller.

This: 




			
				Fridgemagnet said:
			
		

> The iPad is light, fits easily into any bag, has all-day battery life even with heavy use, has a selection of perfectly capable tools for planning, word processing, mindmapping, diagramming, spreadsheeting and so on despite all and sundry sneering that it's "just for consumption", is extremely good for browsing and reading (better than a full size laptop) and starts up and shuts down in fractions of a second. You can sling it in a bag and take it out anywhere and put it away again. I found this completely changed how I thought about wandering out of the house when I was bored and frustrated in a way that netbooks and laptops never did.


gets me excited about the possibilities around ways of working, and new ways of engaging with my work. [e2a: I should probably clarify that, by now, I've conducted each of 70 odd interviews; I've spent about 3-4 hours transcribing each one; another 2 or 3 hours coding each one; extensive periods reading each set of coded documents; and about 2 weeks to 2 months producing each of 3 site reports. I'm now revisiting all that again, trying to pull it together in yet another form. And to see what else has emerged. This can feel a bit protracted or soul destroying, on occasions.]

Yessss, one of the defining characteristics of a thesis is that it's going to be 80,000 words long. With, perhaps, another 20,000 words of footnotes.

But another very, very important characteristics of a thesis is that it's finished. Atm, I'm getting some work done, but by god it's a grind. 

I'm kinda hoping that the excitement and possibiliites that come with an iPad - along with, frankly, the level of professionalism, smoothness and polish that IM(limited)E seems to come with Apple products - might give me one way of really punching the nuts off of my thesis, without bankrupting myself quite so comprehensively as (e.g.) a Mac Air would.


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## Dr. Furface (Mar 25, 2011)

80,000 words should be no problem for you mrs.q, whatever you use!


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## mrs quoad (Mar 25, 2011)

Dr. Furface said:


> 80,000 words should be no problem for you mrs.q, whatever you use!


 


e2a: procrastinating, ennit  I should be writing site report 3


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I'd be amazed if there's a netbook that can play movies non-stop for ten hours.


 
Heh aint that the truth but in the wonderful utopia of Apple hating anything's possible man!


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

Back on topic, I'd never buy a netbook over an iPad, if I needed a proper keyboard while on the road I'd get a Macbook Air, that 11" one is just perfect.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Back on topic, I'd never buy a netbook over an iPad, if I needed a proper keyboard while on the road I'd get a Macbook Air, that 11" one is just perfect.


 
If you've got the money it makes perfect sense. I bought my netbook for £200 as I was on a tight budget. The competition for high end tablets aren't netbooks, but properly speced ultra light laptops


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> If you've got the money it makes perfect sense. I bought my netbook for £200 as I was on a tight budget. The competition for high end tablets aren't netbooks, but properly speced ultra light laptops


 
Indeed, hence the word 'I'd' in my sentence, I don't get much fun from telling other people they're idiots for how they spend their money....


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## mrs quoad (Mar 25, 2011)

As an idiot-in-waiting, I appreciate both your posts, G_S and K_E


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## spitfire (Mar 25, 2011)

I dropped into westfield to see if i could pick one up. No chance, life's too short for standing in a queue for 3 hours, i've waited 3 months, another couple of weeks won't kill me.

I have to say it was all very sober, no whooping, clapping or high fives. Just an air of quiet desperation.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> As an idiot-in-waiting, I appreciate both your posts, G_S and K_E


 
Don't feel bad, none of what people say matter to you, it's your choice, enjoy your purchase, you've made the right one for you.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed, hence the word 'I'd' in my sentence, I don't get much fun from telling other people they're idiots for how they spend their money....


 
Sorry that wasn't a dig at you, more the idea that the ipad is a netbook competitor.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Sorry that wasn't a dig at you, more the idea that the ipad is a netbook competitor.


 
Thing is since the iPad came out netbook sales have been dropping. Can't be a coincidence can it?


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Thing is since the iPad came out netbook sales have been dropping. Can't be a coincidence can it?


It's not as simple as that, really. Undoubtedly it has had some impact, but cheap netbooks were fast approaching saturation point and the market had also shifted to affordable ultraportables/notebooks. Tablets are certainly going to keep on growing, but netbook/notebook sales are still very healthy indeed and will MASSIVELY outsell combined iPad/tablet sales this year. 


http://blogs.ft.com/fttechhub/2011/01/asus-sees-plateau-not-peak-for-netbook-sales/
http://www.computerweekly.com/Artic...et-set-to-grow-over-5000-as-netbook-sales.htm


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

I think it's clear that the iPad is a big factor and along with Android tablets will essentially kill the netbook market in the next few years.


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## editor (Mar 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think it's clear that the iPad is a big factor and along with Android tablets will essentially kill the netbook market in the next few years.


The netbook market will not be "killed" by tablets because the form factor of keyboard + proper physical keyboard still has clear advantages over flat tablets with virtual keys. No matter how it's spun, until some whizzo new technology comes along, proper hardware keyboards are still essential for some jobs.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think it's clear that the iPad is a big factor and along with Android tablets will essentially kill the netbook market in the next few years.


 
At this point I ask what is a netbook? About the only unifying thing I can think of is that they are powered by an Atom. Mine has a 12" screen, so not far of size from an Air. As well of tablets, we've now got a lot of very functional, low power, small form factor laptops. 

I'm not doubting that ipad sales have had an effect, but I can see this slowing down a lot. Netbooks will be in competition with cheap android tablets, not ipads.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 25, 2011)

editor said:


> The netbook market will not be "killed" by tablets because the form factor of keyboard + proper physical keyboard still has clear advantages over flat tablets with virtual keys. No matter how it's spun, until some whizzo new technology comes along, proper hardware keyboards are still essential for some jobs.


 
TBH the sooner netbooks as we know them die the better, to be replaced with something with a similar form factor, but better.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> At this point I ask what is a netbook? About the only unifying thing I can think of is that they are powered by an Atom. Mine has a 12" screen, so not far of size from an Air. As well of tablets, we've now got a lot of very functional, low power, small form factor laptops.
> 
> I'm not doubting that ipad sales have had an effect, but I can see this slowing down a lot. Netbooks will be in competition with cheap android tablets, not ipads.


 
That's a fair point in a sense, the iPad created the tablet market in it's present incarnation, and delivered the first killer blow to the netbook market, all Android will do is finish the job.


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## tarannau (Mar 25, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> TBH the sooner netbooks as we know them die the better, to be replaced with something with a similar form factor, but better.



To be fair, the adequate ultra-light/small laptops are already there. Full specced things like the Macbook Air, various Toshibas, Sonys and the like exist that are genuinely speedy,  boast a full sized keyboard and are plausible laptop replacements. They can be a world away from Netbooks, both in usability and price.

Price is getting better mind. Give it a few years and it may well become a vast market


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2011)

tarannau said:


> To be fair, the adequate ultra-light/small laptops are already there. Full specced things like the Macbook Air, various Toshibas, Sonys and the like exist that are genuinely speedy,  boast a full sized keyboard and are plausible laptop replacements. They can be a world away from Netbooks, both in usability and price.
> 
> Price is getting better mind. Give it a few years and it may well become a vast market


 
In a way the MacBook Air is a netbook, no disc drive, highly portable.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 26, 2011)

tarannau said:


> To be fair, the adequate ultra-light/small laptops are already there. Full specced things like the Macbook Air, various Toshibas, Sonys and the like exist that are genuinely speedy,  boast a full sized keyboard and are plausible laptop replacements. They can be a world away from Netbooks, both in usability and price.
> 
> Price is getting better mind. Give it a few years and it may well become a vast market


 
For sure 

Netbook is a very artificial definition, at the end of the day they are just cheap small laptops. There are loads of options for smaller form factor computers.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 26, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Don't feel bad, none of what people say matter to you, it's your choice, enjoy your purchase, you've made the right one for you.


 
Though in this case, what other people say is substantially informing my understanding of whether it's the right choice for me 

Admittedly, through probably-rose-tinted glasses; but my practical experience of the iPad has been a ten minute tinker, to confirm that it had the potential to be pretty nifty / useful.


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## Scaggs (Mar 26, 2011)

Got mine last night and spent most of the night trying to get it working. itunes wanted to update the software and crashed halfway through. I tried three different computers before I finally managed to restore it to factory settings and now I'm scared to connect to itunes again. Pleased with it so far though. Garage band looks great and the ebook reader is cool. I just need to find out how to get some of my ebooks on it.


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## Crispy (Mar 26, 2011)

Having trouble updating iTunes? Try downloading the installer from www.apple.com/itunes


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> For sure
> 
> Netbook is a very artificial definition, at the end of the day they are just cheap small laptops. There are loads of options for smaller form factor computers.


 
Yep, it's like the term smartphone (which I doubt many really use anymore), laughably some tried to argue the iPhone wasn't one a few years ago when it clearly was. But that just shows you can define anything as you like and if people run with it then it sticks...


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## cybertect (Mar 26, 2011)

spitfire said:


> I have to say it was all very sober, no whooping, clapping or high fives. Just an air of quiet desperation.


 
_Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way_

© Roger Waters


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2011)

cybertect said:


> _Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way_
> 
> © Roger Waters


 
Haha I actually had that lyric come to mind too when I read that.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 26, 2011)

Scaggs said:


> Got mine last night and spent most of the night trying to get it working. itunes wanted to update the software and crashed halfway through. I tried three different computers before I finally managed to restore it to factory settings and now I'm scared to connect to itunes again. Pleased with it so far though. Garage band looks great and the ebook reader is cool. I just need to find out how to get some of my ebooks on it.


 
Did iTunes crash, or was it a dl error?

My iTunes is fine for 99.9% of things, but fails at every attempt to dl (iPod) software updates. 15 mins for the chuffing dl, then it'd fail to process the file. And the only way to get it to work is turning off my firewall and AV for the final minute (or two).

I think it's Kaspersky - in particular - that's caused me beef.

Might not be relevant, but thought it might be worth mentioning.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2011)

I don't have problems with iTunes but one thing that increasingly annoys is having to wire up to sync. Why on earth wont they enable wifi syncing for the damn thing??


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## dogmatique (Mar 26, 2011)

Some young programming whiz made a wireless synching App for it a couple of years ago - he sent it to Apple and they refused to approve it, though they did tell him it was very good and to send them his CV!  He was more interested in making a few quid from it though, and was annoyed that he was restricted to selling it through the much smaller market of Cydia and jailbroken iOs devices.  Can't for the life of me remember their reasoning...


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## Scaggs (Mar 26, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Did iTunes crash, or was it a dl error?
> 
> My iTunes is fine for 99.9% of things, but fails at every attempt to dl (iPod) software updates. 15 mins for the chuffing dl, then it'd fail to process the file. And the only way to get it to work is turning off my firewall and AV for the final minute (or two).
> 
> ...


 
I think it's the version I have on our main pc, which is running Vista. I've updated to the latest version following Crispy's post and it seems to be working better now. It won't let me sync the iPad though because, apparently I can only sync with the pc I restored it on. ITunes pisses me off.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2011)

dogmatique said:


> Some young programming whiz made a wireless synching App for it a couple of years ago - he sent it to Apple and they refused to approve it, though they did tell him it was very good and to send them his CV!  He was more interested in making a few quid from it though, and was annoyed that he was restricted to selling it through the much smaller market of Cydia and jailbroken iOs devices.  Can't for the life of me remember their reasoning...


 
Oh right. Heh for a laugh I emailed Steve Jobs directly about it.


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## mwgdrwg (Mar 27, 2011)

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/3ds-vs-ipad-2-uk-queue-face-off

Ahem. 3DS vs iPad2 uk queue face-off.


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## Scaggs (Mar 27, 2011)

Is there an easy way to make my ipad send stuff to my Epson wireless printer? I downloaded an epson app but it was useless. I also paid about £6 for 'Pages' but they now want £50 a year to subscribe to 'mobileme' so that I can save documents on-line Is there an alternative way to send 'pages' docs by email or something? It just freezes up if I tell it to send via email.


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## Crispy (Mar 27, 2011)

Pages is not worth it. You want documents to go, which can load and save Office formats word excel and PowerPoint, and has built in dropbox, google docs, box.net support.


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## editor (Mar 27, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Back on topic, I'd never buy a netbook over an iPad, if I needed a proper keyboard while on the road I'd get a Macbook Air, that 11" one is just perfect.


 But VERY expensive compared to equally capable but less stylish alternatives. FYI, I saw three journos at the march yesterday with their cameras hooked up to netbooks for uploading images. Didn't see anyone using an iPad mainly because it's hopelessly inadequate for such a task.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Pages is not worth it. You want documents to go, which can load and save Office formats word excel and PowerPoint, and has built in dropbox, google docs, box.net support.


 
Yup this./\/\


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## Scaggs (Mar 27, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Pages is not worth it. You want documents to go, which can load and save Office formats word excel and PowerPoint, and has built in dropbox, google docs, box.net support.


 
I got it working in the end, after it caused the ipad to freeze. Still can't get it to find the printer though. I got Google Apps Browser and that lets me use Google docs. I'll check out Documents to Go too though.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 27, 2011)

It's the nuts


----------



## Winot (Mar 28, 2011)

Reports of nowhere in London having any iPad2 stock.  Anyone know differently?


----------



## spitfire (Mar 28, 2011)

I asked in Regent Street on Saturday, they have been totally cleared out of all stock.


----------



## elbows (Mar 28, 2011)

It will likely be quite a long time indeed before ipad 2 stock levels meet demand.


----------



## nick h. (Mar 28, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Netbook is a very artificial definition, at the end of the day they are just cheap small laptops. There are loads of options for smaller form factor computers.



For a while it seemed a useful term, when it was applied to low spec things like a basic Asus EEE with Linux. They didn't have the memory or disk for Windows apps and were strictly for cloud computing. They were so small, and so cheap, but had all day battery life. Which made them so different from notebooks that they deserved a different moniker.


----------



## Winot (Mar 29, 2011)

elbows said:


> It will likely be quite a long time indeed before ipad 2 stock levels meet demand.


 
Just ordered 16GB wifi only online.  Delivery estimate 5 May (not the 3-4 weeks suggested).  We shall see.


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 29, 2011)

Winot said:


> Just ordered 16GB wifi only online.  Delivery estimate 5 May (not the 3-4 weeks suggested).  We shall see.


 
Apparently they always over-estimate.  When I ordered an iPhone 4 at launch it came early; I hope the same happens again, since I've ordered an iPad 2 as well.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2011)

A mate got one, very happy but all accounts.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 30, 2011)

Winot said:


> Just ordered 16GB wifi only online.  Delivery estimate 5 May (not the 3-4 weeks suggested).  We shall see.


 
Where're you finding the delivery estimate?

I've just ordered one online, all I'm getting is "3-4 weeks."

btw, I got a lulz text from a college friend who knows I'm after one, whilst I was buying plant pots in Asda. Saying that some iPads were going to be released on http://www.apple.com/uk/ipad/reserve at 9 tonight. 

So I sprinted home, got on the laptop and spent 20 of the most frustrating minutes of my recent life being (unsurprisingly) blanked by Apple's servers. Got right through to the point of having logged in with my Apple account once, with an iPad in my basket; but, nope, borked again. At the last hurdle.

And it was then that I thought 'fuckit,' and put in an online order.


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 30, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Where're you finding the delivery estimate?


It should say in your order confirmation email, and in the account pages of the Apple Store.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 30, 2011)

Oh, _motherfucker!_

[snip snip snip] long story short, apple's servers are shit, I've got a weird near-bankruptcy situation going on (having paid for and cancelled 1, whilst needing to pay for another tomorrow), thank fuck for extraordinarily sorted parents and online banking, and I'll be off to pick up my iPad tomorrow.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 30, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> It should say in your order confirmation email, and in the account pages of the Apple Store.


 
Oh, ok, yeah! It was saying 'dispatched 27th April, delivered 06 May.' With standard delivery.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

Excited => can't sleep


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

Thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly impressed.

I've set up webmail, and had a tinker on Pages. One of my main concerns was the ease with which I could transfer documents between my laptop and the iPad; I've sent myself a few documents (over webmail), edited them using Pages, and emailed them back. And everything seems to be working beautifully. 

I was thinking an SD reader would be necessary; now I'm not so sure. But I'm definitely off to buy a dock, because atm I'm writing with the thing flat on my desk, and that kinda doesn't work.

Basically, though, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet


----------



## electroplated (Mar 31, 2011)

did you get an apple case for it? they allow you to sit it at a better angle for lap or table usage...


----------



## Crispy (Mar 31, 2011)

Do you use Gmail? By default, the ipad uses POP3 for gmail, whereas IMAP is much better.

Also, pages is overpriced - get Documents to Go- it edits all MS Office formats  and has Dropbox integration, so you don't even need to email stuff to yourself


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

electroplated: yep, I've got one of the magnetic covers. The, uh, lower 'resting' angle seems to be fine (but is only about 20-30 degrees off horizontal). The higher 'resting' angle is a bit sketchy, tbh. Touching the upper edge of the screen is likely to result in the whole shebang falling over backwards with a loud clatter. And I'm kinda wary of killing it, having only owned it for a couple of hours  atm, I'm kinda thinking that the 'raised raised' setting needs a touchpad / mouse to be used properly. Which seems a bit daft, given that the touchscreen is one of the headline features of an ipad.

Crispy: I use my university webmail account. They've got their own dl-able settings file. It's beautifully integrated. Using IMAP.

Also, I've got both documents to go and pages. I saw your (or FM's?) comment about Pages / DTG last night, and dled both in eager anticipation of today. 

Your comment about dropbox integration sounds kinda interesting. What IS it? something to do with google docs?


----------



## editor (Mar 31, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly impressed.


You might find this useful:
50 really useful iPad tips and tricks
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/50-really-useful-ipad-tips-and-tricks-688556


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

editor said:


> You might find this useful:
> 50 really useful iPad tips and tricks
> http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/50-really-useful-ipad-tips-and-tricks-688556


 
ty, ed!

Have got documents to go up and running, and syncing between my desktop and ipad. Fantastic. One query: is there any way to change the default view? Because I could quite easily work on a long document in Pages; I think my eyes would start bleeding after a bit with DTG. And the lack of page borders or demarcations... is a bit of a difficulty. Loving the syncing (and'm thinking it may be great for documents that I don't need to edit so much - like transcripts) but not so sure about the presentation / interface.

e2a: ha! Both USB ports on my Dell are 'underpowered,' so the iPad won't charge unless it's plugged into the wall


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 31, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> electroplated: yep, I've got one of the magnetic covers. The, uh, lower 'resting' angle seems to be fine (but is only about 20-30 degrees off horizontal). The higher 'resting' angle is a bit sketchy, tbh. Touching the upper edge of the screen is likely to result in the whole shebang falling over backwards with a loud clatter. And I'm kinda wary of killing it, having only owned it for a couple of hours  atm, I'm kinda thinking that the 'raised raised' setting needs a touchpad / mouse to be used properly. Which seems a bit daft, given that the touchscreen is one of the headline features of an ipad.
> 
> Crispy: I use my university webmail account. They've got their own dl-able settings file. It's beautifully integrated. Using IMAP.
> 
> ...


 
Dropbox is an online multiple device storage and sharing folder system. VERY useful, check out there website for more.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

TY, all. Have installed the dropbox app; and it looks like a great piece of kit. My one reservation centres on documents to go - unless I'm missing something VERY substantial (in the way of view menus / page setup options) then I can't see it being usable (for me) for any reasonably-sized pieces of work.

(I've got DTG installed on my android too, tbf. And it's almost exactly the same, in terms of functionality, from what I can make out (though I hadn't discovered the syncing side of things)). Nice enough, but not very polished?


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 31, 2011)

Oh yeah if you're on Twitter, Facebook or like lots of interesting content in one easy to use place check out Flipboard.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh yeah if you're on Twitter, Facebook or like lots of interesting content in one easy to use place check out Flipboard.


 
I use FB and pretty much fb only. And not that frequently. I'm guessing Flipboard wouldn't add that much, to just fb?

Also, I've just tried playing Chopper 2 on the iPad, using my iPod as a remote. When I first saw that feature advertised (on the iPod), I thought 'lulz, that's a piss-poor attention grabbing stunt!' BUT fuck me! It's stunning  Graphics are incredible at HD, and the 'iPod-as-remote' function adds a whole new level.

I've also got a remarkable amount of work done today


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 31, 2011)

You can plug all sorts of sites into Flipboard, try it out, very much doubt you wont like it.


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## bi0boy (Mar 31, 2011)

I'm going to try and buy one today, my first Apple device ever (except for a Performa 6300 I once got for free to flog the bits on ebay)


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> I'm going to try and buy one today, my first Apple device ever (except for a Performa 6300 I once got for free to flog the bits on ebay)


 
HEARTFELT best of luck! 

I'm guessing you're well aware that everywhere'll be thoroughly sold out by now... 

IMO, if you've got an Apple store near you, it MIGHT be worth heading in to check when their next 'reservable' lot of deliveries will be coming in. 

On the one hand, I have serious reservations about 'recommending' the reservations route, because last night the whole server / crashing business was a complete f***ing nightmare. And, according to the bloke in store, they were sold out within a handful of minutes (and the server was crashing for most of those). On the other hand, I'm unbelievably grateful that I went down that route - because I got one, it's f***ing fantastic, it's 5 weeks sooner than it would've been delivered, and I'm already feeling excited about my thesis again

IMO that's a really sketchy route to RELY on; but it's chuffing wonderful if it pays off.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 31, 2011)

Gotta say, I'm loving pages.


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 1, 2011)

AND papers. 

F*** me, not cheap, but a fantastic resource. A (marginally editable) pdf reader, that also accesses a fair few academic search engines / databases. I've tried a few authors / search terms, and it's come back with some fantastic hits. Some difficulties with importation via dropbox, as EACH CHUFFING FILE NEEDS TO BE SEPARATELY IMPORTED (which takes a fair while with >50 pdfs), but nonetheless it's an absolute cracker of an app.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2011)

Any seen the new Photoshop app for the iPad? Meant to be quite decent...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 1, 2011)

It's a bit confusing having separate threads for the ipad2 and the ipad in general. Can we pick one and stick to it?


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> HEARTFELT best of luck!
> 
> I'm guessing you're well aware that everywhere'll be thoroughly sold out by now...



Well I went to the local Apple shop yesterday only to find out about this. I will check online tonight at 9pm to hopefully reserve one. I am hoping that since I now live in the deprived North East instead of Cambridge that I might have a greater chance of getting one, although they probably distribute them based on demand or something.

Lol @ not paying £100 + subscription for the 3G function due to my HTC phone's WiFi hotspot function.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It's a bit confusing having separate threads for the ipad2 and the ipad in general. Can we pick one and stick to it?


 
Maybe merge this one into the other and change title to reflect?


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 1, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Any seen the new Photoshop app for the iPad? Meant to be quite decent...


 
Ohhh, damn you for mentioning this on quarterly payday  

I may have a perspective on it in the next couple of days 

e2a: new ipad photoshop app? Really? Can't find anything on the app store? 10 hits for photoshop - none of them recent, and only 2 (or three?) of them Adobe (rather than magazines about using photoshop, etc).

e2a2: ahhhh http://www.technewsdaily.com/adobe-debuts-concept-photoshop-2446/


bi0boy said:


> Well I went to the local Apple shop yesterday only to find out about this. I will check online tonight at 9pm to hopefully reserve one. I am hoping that since I now live in the deprived North East instead of Cambridge that I might have a greater chance of getting one, although they probably distribute them based on demand or something.



Oh 

fwiw, I think the store can tell you when stock is coming in. I'm not sure it's a daily thing. I got the impression that I happened to luck out that Weds / Thurs / whenever it was - and that the previous delivery had been the 600 that went to the store on the opening night. That was 6 days after the first delivery. Obv no guarantees they'll keep up / speed up / slow down that schedule - but IMO worth checking with the store. 

And be prepared to have 5 tabs open, hammering the dying servers, on the off-chance you'll luck out 

IMO this is mostly to keep the buzz going. The quantities being delivered are - clearly - nowhere near enough for demand. And they're - clearly - being prioritised ahead of deliveries for people who ordered right at the outset of orders being taken. So tiny deliveries to shops to keep people's hopes alive (and a mass of frustrated / eager potential buyers), instead of meeting online orders.


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## mrs quoad (Apr 1, 2011)

btw, this is where I've been working this afternoon:












(Only the other way up. I think it's photo bucket that's inverted them, hmm, as they went ok on fb!).

This beats the FUCK outta my laptop! Productivity skyrocket


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2011)

Haha!


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2011)

Well I really dont need to upgrade my ipad1 to ipad 2 for my day to day use of the devie, but as I am developing 3d stuff I need an ipad 2 to see what the performance is like. After problems I had with the online store on release night, I had given up on getting one for a few months. But thanks to the mighty fine urbanites who alerted me to the 9pm reserve option, I seem to have managed to reserve an ipad 2 for collection this afternoon in Birmingham, yay. So thanks very much!


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 2, 2011)

elbows said:


> Well I really dont need to upgrade my ipad1 to ipad 2 for my day to day use of the devie, but as I am developing 3d stuff I need an ipad 2 to see what the performance is like. After problems I had with the online store on release night, I had given up on getting one for a few months. But thanks to the mighty fine urbanites who alerted me to the 9pm reserve option, I seem to have managed to reserve an ipad 2 for collection this afternoon in Birmingham, yay. So thanks very much!


 
F***in hell!

Nicely!

I can't help but feel a little bit guilty about all the people who are waiting politely, though


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2011)

Just got back from Brum, with ipad2, woo, cheers


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2011)

Ooh, the weight difference is far more noticeable than I was expecting, nice.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 2, 2011)

What model did you get?


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2011)

32GB Wifi, which is the same as I had for first ipad, dont want to spend more than that.


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 2, 2011)

elbows said:


> 32GB Wifi, which is the same as I had for first ipad, dont want to spend more than that.


 
You had a choice?!

Sounds like the servers were behaving FAR better on your reservation night than they were on mine! I've only got the 64gb model because I tried to buy the 32gb one several times, but repeatedly got screen-freezes / time-outs until only the 64gb ones were left.

Also, the 'elevated' / 'most perpendicular' angle of the magnetic stand is not for people who don't like the sound and sight of their ipad repeatedly twatting over backwards. I can just about get mine to hold, and it'll withstand the most gentle of touches. But if I put ANY pressure on the top of the screen, then *crack* it's invariably horizontal and backwards. Bring on the iPad docks, ffs!


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 2, 2011)

Ohhhh jesus  you fold it THAT way 

Yeah, ok, so the cover makes for a fantastic stand if you're not a blazing twat who's too technically incompetent to work out a triangle.






e2a: think I've now spent about £60 on apps / videos in the last 2 days 

Some of those make good sense - particularly the business / work-related ones (which're probably about £25 of that, which - now I'm reading it - sounds a lot better ) But there's also been two or three £5 games, 'The Wire' starter pack, the full collection of Wallace and Gromit (HD, wtf), and Porterhouse Blue. Which I've been meaning to see for some time.


e2a2: and I'm srsly considering Cracker. But it's £8.

I should probably get streaming torrents, ay, but... it's a habit I never really got into  And I can't help but feel a wee bit concerned that it's getting more traceable / less of a good idea as time goes by.


----------



## Scaggs (Apr 2, 2011)

Can't afford all that stuff. If you get movie player you can put all your own films and tv on there forfree. I have spent about £10 on apps though, it's easy to get carried away


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 2, 2011)

Scaggs said:


> Can't afford all that stuff. If you get movie player you can put all your own films and tv on there forfree. I have spent about £10 on apps though, it's easy to get carried away


 
1st April is my quarterly payday... Otherwise I'd be in a bit more trouble!

Re: movieplayer. Uh, at the risk of asking a retarded question, including DVDs? I think I need to learn how to rip DVDs  e2a: that's illegal, technically, though, isn't it? 

e2a2: also... looking at the movie player app... is there anything there that can't be handled by the iPad's own video player?


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 2, 2011)

Bugger. At 9pm there were loads in London but up North here we had just *one* single 64GB 3G Black version which is the exact opposite of what I want.


----------



## Scaggs (Apr 2, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> 1st April is my quarterly payday... Otherwise I'd be in a bit more trouble!
> 
> Re: movieplayer. Uh, at the risk of asking a retarded question, including DVDs? I think I need to learn how to rip DVDs  e2a: that's illegal, technically, though, isn't it?
> 
> e2a2: also... looking at the movie player app... is there anything there that can't be handled by the iPad's own video player?


 
I think Apple only like stuff in their own strange format and, as far as I know, that's all they can play. If you want to play the most common formats you need to use stuff like movieplayer (or VLC). Not sure about the legality of it all though. I'm just not used to paying for stuff.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 2, 2011)

On windows,

Step one. Install VLC
Step two. Install Handbrake
Step three: Insert DVD
Step four: rip to iphone preset
Step five: drag onto iPad in itunes


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> On windows,
> 
> Step one. Install VLC
> Step two. Install Handbrake
> ...


 
Trying this now, with the Prisoner 

(And using iPad preset instead of iPhone?)

tyvm!

e2a: welll. Apparently THAT didn't work because the DVD might be protected. Well, duh.  Trying something else.

e2a2: in retrospect, given it went through the first 8 (of 9) chapters in something like 2 minutes, and Apocalypse Now Redux is guesstimated at 4.5 hours, I'm guessing that was looking like a bork from the off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2011)

Apple really are going all out for their 'post pc' strategy:


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 3, 2011)

I think I've found out you can't just plug in USB drives or SD cards via an adapter if you want more data storage - is that correct? It seems you need to fork out the extra money for more internal storage space.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 3, 2011)

Yeah, the adapter is just for importing things


----------



## Crispy (Apr 3, 2011)

Quoad: VLC is supposed to do the decryption bit for you. Its windows, so i have no experience of it myself. Google!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Apr 3, 2011)

I think these are made by Foxconn in China. Harrowing article about the working conditions and suicides amongst their workers by Jenny Chan in the latest New Internationalist.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 3, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I think these are made by Foxconn in China. Harrowing article about the working conditions and suicides amongst their workers by Jenny Chan in the latest New Internationalist.


Lots of companies' products are made there, not just Apple's.


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 3, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> I think I've found out you can't just plug in USB drives or SD cards via an adapter if you want more data storage - is that correct? It seems you need to fork out the extra money for more internal storage space.


 
I believe there's an SD card 'adapter' (probably going to be priced at £25-35, going by their other adaptors?)

e2a: let me rephrase that. When I picked up my iPad, I was asked what accessories I wanted. And the chap who was selling it offered me a number of things. One of those things was an SD card adaptor / reader. Which I declined. When I went back a short while later (in search of a cover that'd protect the back, too) I had a look for an SD card adaptor and couldn't find one. (I also asked about a dock, which he'd asked me if I wanted, and which I thought I'd bought - but it turns out they won't be in stock for 1-2 weeks, so could be the same story there.)

The camera adaptor holds SD cards; not sure if that makes it an SD reader, though. Depending on how app-specific (or whatever) it is.

e2a: completely missed the fact that there's now a 10th page, and Fridgey had answered your question far better


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 3, 2011)

Also discovered another MASSIVE advantage of the iPad today.

The front-facing camera makes it an absolute treat for an 18 month-old niece. Basically, like a giant, shiny, interactive mirror.

She couldn't get enough of it  And it made for some absolutely corking photos, because she was immersed with playing with her own 'face,' about 3-4" below the camera


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2011)

Something that's interesting about your posts is they chime - to a degree - with Apple's 'post pc' gambit, you're not talking about the specs or storage your talking about experience.


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Something that's interesting about your posts is they chime - to a degree - with Apple's 'post pc' gambit, you're not talking about the specs or storage your talking about experience.


 
Yes


----------



## Gromit (Apr 4, 2011)

Does the iPad have a function that turns people into Stephen Fry?

Can we disable it on Quoad's pad please


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 4, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Does the iPad have a function that turns people into Stephen Fry?
> 
> Can we disable it on Quoad's pad please


 
Yeah  A bit over-excited 

*gush*


----------



## sim667 (Apr 4, 2011)

Crispy said:


> On windows,
> 
> Step one. Install VLC
> Step two. Install Handbrake
> ...


 
I discovered you can open mkv's as the source in handbrake 0.9.4 and above yesterday....

bit of pointless info, but it does mean you can convert mkv rips easily for idevices


----------



## electroplated (Apr 4, 2011)

i use air video to serve up any type of video from the laptops round the house and luckily have VLC player ( from before it was removed from the app store) on the ipad for watching stuff out and  about without converting it either


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Yes


 
Lol why did you edit your post?


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 4, 2011)

A flash of recognition 

I srsly feel as if I've been freed, massively, by the ipad - to the point of holidays abroad feeling realistically manageable / doable for the first time in about 4 years. I guess that's why I'm kinda veering gushwards


----------



## tarannau (Apr 4, 2011)

Hold on. What's all this about holidays? Does the ipad sport an optional iwing attachment, or some form of long term holiday meal storage device?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 4, 2011)

Jeez quoad, you've got it _bad_


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> A flash of recognition
> 
> I srsly feel as if I've been freed, massively, by the ipad - to the point of holidays abroad feeling realistically manageable / doable for the first time in about 4 years. I guess that's why I'm kinda veering gushwards


 
Dude, enjoy it! No one is going to judge you for enjoying your device, we aint that infantile on here!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 4, 2011)

Yes we are.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Dude, enjoy it! No one is going to judge you for enjoying your device, we aint that infantile on here!


 
New to the boards are you?

Welcome. Please post a Hello I'm new here thread and enjoy the non-judgmental greetings


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yes we are.


 
We really ain't.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2011)

Gromit said:


> New to the boards are you?
> 
> Welcome. Please post a Hello I'm new here thread and enjoy the non-judgmental greetings


 
Greetings human!


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 5, 2011)

Artichoke back later today, after 2 weeks in France.

So this morning = naked housework to classic Hard House (_Get A Life You Drug Addicts_ atm) played at +13% pitch through Touch DJ  Another one notched up to the 'experience' factor 

Re: holidays. I find it really hard to manage my workload, and my laptop is nowhere near this mobile / accessible / usable anywhere other than the house!


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yep, so long as the device you are using to capture footage uses the right sort of format, this tech is very attractive. Im going to see how well it works out with an ipad1 & sanyo xacti camera shortly


 
Well that turned out to be a bad failure. I could import the video using the camera connection kit, but I couldnt get it to show up in imovie. Both thumbs down, no good.


----------



## electroplated (Apr 5, 2011)

boo apple - http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3719


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## elbows (Apr 5, 2011)

Cheers for finding that, I suspected as much once it failed. My years of h.264 advocacy made me hope it would be different, but I should not be surprised that Apple have done this.

Its a pisser, its a bloody good thing I didnt buy the ipad specifically to do this sort of thing or I would be going nuts right now.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 5, 2011)

H.264 covers a myriad of different profiles, so it's not quite the monolithic standard that it appears to be.


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> H.264 covers a myriad of different profiles, so it's not quite the monolithic standard that it appears to be.


 
Yeah, back in the day I was well into geeking out on the details of this, though I've become a little rusty on it in the last few years. I shall be doing some tests to see if the profile my xacti uses provides a legitimate excuse for this handicap, or whether Apple are being shitty and its just something like an apple-specific flag they are checking for.

Certainly the video will actually play from within the camera roll on the ipad, which leads me to suspect that the profile of the xacti stuff is not beyond the ipads native capabilities, but its early days so I should try not to prejudge.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2011)

Haha this is crazy!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2011)

Haha this is crazy!


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Haha this is crazy!


 


Kid_Eternity said:


> Haha this is crazy!


 
It's not _that_ good.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> It's not _that_ good.


 
The boards messing up again, I hit submit once...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 5, 2011)

ANd here's the link to the actual product, instead of being buried 4 levels deep in the blog echo chamber http://www.spinninghat.com/product/typescreen


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2011)

Bit late for that April Fools, no?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 5, 2011)

Oh, it's not an april fools is it?!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Oh, it's not an april fools is it?!


 
Haha that's brilliant, I actually bought into it because I thought 'yeah someone is totally nutz enough to do this'.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 5, 2011)

I wouldn't put it past them, tbf


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I wouldn't put it past them, tbf


 
Well exactly. It's the type of crazy thing I expect...


----------



## elbows (Apr 6, 2011)

Well the iCade, which started off as an April fool the other year, is supposed to be turning into a real product by summer.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 6, 2011)

elbows said:


> Well the iCade, which started off as an April fool the other year, is supposed to be turning into a real product by summer.


 
It's been around for a while.. http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/retro-gaming/e762/


----------



## Crispy (Apr 6, 2011)

It was an april fools, which is now actually being made.



> Dear Retro Gaming Fans: The ThinkGeek iCADE is currently in production and will be available for ordering in Early June 2011. Please sign up for our email to get notified when it hits our shelves. Or don't and be ostracized for eternity.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 11, 2011)

Interesting speculation on the future of the tablet market. This is by the same company that predicts Androids wholesale dominance of the smartphone market, except with tablets they're predicting Apple won't be beaten any time soon in this market:






Wouldn't surprise me if they're right given how well the iPad is selling and the lack of a serious Android competitor that consumers can actually buy...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 12, 2011)

2015 in the tech market?  Haha right. They didn't even predict the iPhone turning the smart phone world upside down, that was only 4 years ago.  

iOS will be unrecognisable by then.  iOS5 is going to be a see change in how the platform operates, Android is certain to follow, its 1/2 way there anyway.  They are going to move certain functionality into the cloud.  Foolish IMO but that is the way of things it seems.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2011)

It's pretty much pointless predicting that far ahead, really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2011)

editor said:


> It's pretty much pointless predicting that far ahead, really.


 
Says the man that was happy to predict that far ahead about this very issue.  Wonder if the numbers were different if you'd see it as pointless?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2011)

Sunray said:


> 2015 in the tech market?  Haha right. They didn't even predict the iPhone turning the smart phone world upside down, that was only 4 years ago.
> 
> iOS will be unrecognisable by then.  iOS5 is going to be a see change in how the platform operates, Android is certain to follow, its 1/2 way there anyway.  They are going to move certain functionality into the cloud.  Foolish IMO but that is the way of things it seems.


 
Do you think at this point that iOS will have any influence over Android given how the latter is trouncing the former in unit sales?


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2011)

Looks like Adobe Photoshop is going to lead the way for experiments with using tablets as addons to desktop apps:



http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/11/photoshop-touch-apps-extend-desktop-functionality-to-ipad-and-ot/



> First up is Adobe Eazel, an iPad drawing app that lets you create a five-fingered painting on the iPad before transferring it back over WiFi to the Photoshop application running on your Mac or PC. Adobe Nav turns the iPad into a Photoshop companion device by extending live controls and menu bars from the Photoshop workspace to the iPad's display. Finally, there's Adobe Color Lava which turns the iPad into a hi-tech color mixing palette. Of course, these are just the first in what Adobe hopes to be a full range of Photoshop extensions hitting app stores just as soon as devs get their talents around Adobe's Photoshop Touch programming tools (consisting of a Photoshop scripting engine and enhanced SDK) for Android, BlackBerry, and iOS devices (available for Mac and Windows platforms today).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2011)

Good move considering how big the tablet market is going to become over the next five years...


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2011)

Yes. Its bold in a way for them to try, given the lack of precision stylus on the ipad, there is bound to be a lot of sneering from a variety of quarters about the rather obvious limitations, but stuff like the colour mixing may be very enjoyable.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yes. Its bold in a way for them to try, given the lack of precision stylus on the ipad, there is bound to be a lot of sneering from a variety of quarters about the rather obvious limitations, but stuff like the colour mixing may be very enjoyable.


 
Well you're always going to have some people being snide, this is a real interesting step forward for them and the application.


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2011)

I'd certainly embrace it if I ever intended to buy Photoshop. I should have been more specific when I talked of people sneering, I was specifically thinking of some photoshop users who will have a different level of tablet functionality in mind and so will be very down on anything that isnt using a stylus. Which is understandable really, and I think if anything that adobe video in embedded above makes it worse, there are lots of fine marketing words about where people do their creative & inspirational stuff but at the end of the day the stuff they have introduced does not really live up to that vision in its broadest sense, not yet anyways.

But dont get me wrong, Im loving this stuff and the potential, or else I wouldnt have posted about it at all. I just know I always want more, but ipad-like tablets have distinct limits and it may be quite a slow journey working out exactly what can be done with them in a more productive and enjoyable way than using a mouse for many creative endeavours.


----------



## mauvais (Apr 13, 2011)

This is a good article for all the halfwits banging on about iPad market share, without being too kind to either Apple or Android:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/12/apple_and_android/



> Even as Jobs stood on stage and sniggered at Android's 9 per cent US market share, Android was on a 615 per cent growth spurt that saw Android topple Apple's iPhone domination just a few short months later.
> 
> The same is almost certainly going to happen to Apple in the tablet market. It has to. Apple's business model requires it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 13, 2011)

Interesting way of looking at it, I assume the anti Apple brigade will call it many other things though...


----------



## magneze (Apr 13, 2011)

There is no escape.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 13, 2011)

mauvais said:


> This is a good article for all the halfwits banging on about iPad market share, without being too kind to either Apple or Android:
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/12/apple_and_android/


 
Seems pretty spot on IMO.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 28, 2011)

Channel 4 have released a 4oD iPad app, gets round the flash issue and is free (for a limited time apparently) for the app and content.


----------



## editor (May 3, 2011)

iPads really aren't designed for trouser pockets, are they?  






http://gizmodo.com/#!5797712/the-sad-strange-world-of-tactical-ipad-2-pants


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 3, 2011)

Why would anyone really care...


----------



## spitfire (May 3, 2011)

No. 3 will get a nasty shock when he sits down.


----------



## editor (May 3, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why would anyone really care...


I think it's amusing. You'd have to walk a bit like a robot with an iPad rammed down your combatz.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 3, 2011)

Dunno didn't find it really that funny, just another boring article about Apple...*shrugs*


----------



## Dr. Furface (May 3, 2011)

editor said:


> http://gizmodo.com/#!5797712/the-sad-strange-world-of-tactical-ipad-2-pants


Sod the ipad/pants article - check out the thermochromic urinal!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2011)

*Oklahoma State University find the iPad has a positive impact in an academic environm*

No doubt this will get the anti Apple brigade frothing at the mouth but it's an interesting piece of news nonetheless:



> A recent trial of iPads by the Oklahoma State University has delivered some extremely positive results for the Apple tablet. The trial, which took place in the fall of 2010, showed an increase in pace of the course, reaching traditional benchmarks sometimes weeks in advance.
> 
> *“We put this powerful and creative tool in the hands of faculty and students and the end result reached beyond enhancing the academic experience of our students,” said OSU President Burns Hargis. “The report outlines a possible decrease to student and administrative expenses, increased productivity, and how the iPad crosses between academic and personal barriers.
> *
> Each class was given the opportunity to use the iPad how they wished, but focus was always on specific measurable outcomes. These included expense impact, viability as an e-reader and overall enhancement to a student’s academic experience. After the trial, it was recommended that the university consider full deployment of iPads for all students.


----------



## editor (May 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> "the anti Apple brigade"


You're a bit obsessed with this mythical 'brigade' you know!

But it's hardly surprising that a student's performance increases when they're handed an expensive technological tool to help them. Would there have been an equally immediate rise in benchmarks if they had, for example, been handed decent - but cheaper - netbooks? 

And it's hardly a surprise that the students said the iPads "enhanced the learning experience of this course." 

I'd say whatever you want if I get to keep a shiny iPad although I am concerned about colleges being tied to one manufacturer.

http://news.okstate.edu/press-releases/929-ipad-study-released-by-oklahoma-state-university


----------



## Kanda (May 4, 2011)

editor said:


> But it's hardly surprising that a student's performance increases when they're handed an expensive technological tool to help them. Would there have been an equally immediate rise in benchmarks if they had, for example, been handed decent - but cheaper - netbooks?


 
I reckon Quoady should answer that!


----------



## editor (May 4, 2011)

In terms of academic work, I can't think of any particular attribute that would elevate the iPad above a decent, but cheaper, netbook (in fact there's a few important areas where the iPad falls up very short in comparison). 

They're certainly lovely machines though and I would have *loved* a free one lobbed my way when I was at school.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 18, 2011)

*Survey Reveals How Consumers Use Their iPad*

This is a US study but interesting nonetheless, would be interested to see a Europe wide one to see how the figures compare:



> >87.4% did not even consider an Android tablet before buying an iPad and 90% would not consider a BlackBerry PlayBook or HP TouchPad
> 
> >The number of people with WiFi-only or the 3G iPad is fairly evenly split (52% to 48%)
> 
> ...


----------



## mrs quoad (May 21, 2011)

Despite looking after my iPad as carefully as I could (always with the smart cover on, always double-bagged in a cover-all foam cover when out and about) it picked up a scratch! On the screen! Tiny, but nonetheless irritatingly noticeable.

I took it into the store today, as one of the things I'd asked about when I first got it was screen protectors. And I'd been told 'nah, no need to worry, unless you're going to treat it roughly. Which I don't think I have done.

Long story short, they're replacing it for free. The whole damned thing. Taking it in in a couple of hours, after backing everything up!


----------



## mrs quoad (May 21, 2011)

editor said:


> In terms of academic work, I can't think of any particular attribute that would elevate the iPad above a decent, but cheaper, netbook (in fact there's a few important areas where the iPad falls up very short in comparison).


 
IMO the main 'attribute' is the ease of use / accessabililty / versatility of the iPad. I think it was Fridgey who said that it'd revolutionised the way he worked; that's been pretty much my experience, too. 

And not just because of technical capacities*. The article K_E cited says that for the students, it 'crosses between academic and personal barriers.' And it is absolutely beautiful, the way that it's powered up in half a second, apps / word processing programmes / etc are available pretty much instantly, and there just aren't any substantial glitches I've (yet) come across. 

IMO any benefits beyond a netbook might be largely about the excitement / sheer quality of the product. But... any benefits would still be benefits... I kinda think it'd be a mistake to write those things off in favour of JUST looking at technical capacities, because the versatility / excitement / etc are all part of what makes it a fantastic device for work, in a way that's about more than just doing work. And which kinda opens up what 'work' means. IYSWIM.

I'm not sure a netbook necessarily does that in the same way? Maybe I'm just being blinded by the white heat of technology,  though 



*it IS irritating that - in the absence of a mobileme account - I've just had to back up something like 120-150 files through email. On the other hand, apart from inferential stats, the iPad can do absolutely everything I want it to.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 21, 2011)

The experience of using a device is a big factor; for eg the Kindle is a great device, and as a result I'm reading more than I have in over ten years. I can see the same boost happening with iPads for students that no cheap, plasticky netbook can replicate or match...


----------



## editor (May 21, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> And not just because of technical capacities*. The article K_E cited says that for the students, it 'crosses between academic and personal barriers.' And it is absolutely beautiful, the way that it's powered up in half a second, apps / word processing programmes / etc are available pretty much instantly, and there just aren't any substantial glitches I've (yet) come across.


There's an interesting article (and discussion) on this US education site: 

http://edreach.us/2011/04/01/ipad-vs-netbook-for-a-11/


> For those of you who feel the iPad offers an experience and opportunity that the netbooks don’t, we’ll talk software, operating systems, and enabling vs. empowering in the next post. But I don’t think that is the case. I believe the netbook can provide the educational opportunities with technology that we want our students engaging in. And we can do so at a fraction of the cost with an open platform that affords students more opportunities than an iPad does.



User responses:


> That said, there are significant problems with the iPad, some of which Ben covered above. The lack of inputs and the need for a required "companion computer", the inability to access Flash-based content (the vast majority of the "high-quality educational resources" to which you refer, and a huge swath of powerful Web 2.0 tools), and the general inability to do more than one thing at a time (the "app effect"), leave you with a great tool for gathering, but not so great for creating.





> The issue I have with the tactile experience on the iPad is that I don't believe it merits the additional $310 per unit over the netbooks we're looking to use. I have both a netbook and an iPad, and while I enjoy the iPad for general consumption and games, I have been frustrated with the web experience (lack of Flash, which might not be an issue in a couple years if sites transition to html5) and the Google Apps experience is limited. I've also found it challenging for long-form text input. I also strongly dislike how locked down the device is.


----------



## mrs quoad (May 21, 2011)

I'd fully agree with this. From a bureaucratic / technocratic PoV:



> I believe the netbook can provide the educational opportunities with technology that we want our students engaging in. And we can do so at a fraction of the cost with an open platform that affords students more opportunities than an iPad does.



Flash is also, tbh, an inexcusable bugger. I haven't needed it for owt that a 3rd-party browser can't handle as of yet, but can see that could be a major hiccup. I think that the other browsers struggle with interactive flash, which I guess is more educationally useful....

I'm slightly confused by what they mean by the 'app effect' - certainly IME, I'm used to switching between several different things. All the longer documents I've put together have relied - heavily - on quotations, often drawn from dropbox / via documents to go, transferred to Pages. And that's - for me - one of the strengths of the multi-tasking bar / app bar down the bottom of the iPad 2's screen (is this an iOS 4.something addition?) I use it kinda like my PC's taskbar.

Long-form text input - would that be addressed with a wifi keyboard? Works for me (and I hugely prefer having the detachable keyboard / screen).

But, yes. From an educational provider's PoV, I can very, very much understand where they're coming from. I'd also be kinda tempted to come back to my earlier point (and K_E's subsequent point), though - one of THE main selling points of the iPad, for me, is the outstanding functionality, usability, and full-on all-out beauty of using it. In contrast to, for example, my Dell laptop or my HTC Desire, every little thing not only does what I want it to - it usually does more, and sings and dances whilst doing it. Overwhelmingly, the iPad exceeds my expectations - whereas the Desire (for example) and Android've held a dozen small shabbinesses, letdowns, or unpleasant surprises. Likewise the Dell.

That's why I kinda feel that looking at the technical side of things - and the cost-benefit on a technical level - might be missing what is (for me) the crunch point, and the deciding factor. Yes, yes, yes, they're probably entirely right. And iPads would probably be unjustifiable for your average institution, that had to provide cost-benefit analyses / evidenced best value. Still, to my mind, there's a whole world of productivity - and joy - that's missed in just looking at those technicalities.

I work more with my iPad, because I love working with it. And because I might be doing something completely different with it, when suddenly an idea strikes me and I can break off with no trouble at all to hammer out a bit of work / a few thoughts here and there. That kinda thing isn't - IMO - measured in technicalities, or specifications. It's measured by - and directly related to - the sheer fucking joy of using a product. And I'm not sure that'll come along with many better-value netbooks.

Though maybe I'm entirely wrong


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 21, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I'd fully agree with this. From a bureaucratic / technocratic PoV:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Perhaps not,e a decent specced netbook will set you back 300 odd quid, add a education discount and the 16gig wifi iPad really isn't that much more expensive. Besides, if it's demonstrated that the iPad increases educational attainment due to the factors we've identified then the investment would be justified.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> That kinda thing isn't - IMO - measured in technicalities, or specifications. It's measured by - and directly related to - the sheer fucking joy of using a product.


Pretty sure you'd lose a lot of the joy if you were tasked with writing a lot of essays on the thing or needing to access the zillions of useful websites using Flash.


----------



## mrs quoad (May 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Pretty sure you'd lose a lot of the joy if you were tasked with writing a lot of essays on the thing or needing to access the zillions of useful websites using Flash.


 
Flash, yep, already agreed on that. Though - again - 3rd party browsers (e.g. Atomic, and is it Skyfire?!) can handle some flash. Flash videos don't seem to be a problem, not sure about interactive flash apps. I'm guessing that's where the difficulty lies.

Re: essays, what do you think I've been doing with this thing since getting it!? Apart from pissing about on infinity blade, Korg synthesisers and Urban, obv. Backing up only the UNIQUE documents on my iPad today meant copying 4 Keynote presentations (2 different stages of 2 different presentations), 4 spreadsheets (of relative usefulness, admittedly, given I ended up needing to use regression / inferential stats) and _63_ unique Pages / Word documents. Varying in size between 2 sides and >24,000 words.

Those are documents that've been put together entirely on the iPad. Since March 31st. In that context, I'm slightly struggling to see the whole 'putting essays together on an iPad is a bit of a bugger' thing.

e2a: might be worth adding: the lack of ability to add footnotes in Pages is a pain in the fundamentals. From an academic standpoint. And has meant that a couple of documents've been shuffled back to my laptop, for brief editing. Can't think of many other problems with it, though. I'd be intrigued to know if Android had anything that could begin to approach Pages / Keynote / Numbers in terms of polish / user-friendliness.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 21, 2011)

Indeed, I remember when the iPhone first came out, some people had a bit of a mental problem with typing on a screen, now if anyone criticised it for not having a hardware keyboard they'd look a bit mad. The iPad is a piece of piss to type on...


----------



## mrs quoad (May 21, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed, I remember when the iPhone first came out, some people had a bit of a mental problem with typing on a screen, now if anyone criticised it for not having a hardware keyboard they'd look a bit mad. The iPad is a piece of piss to type on...


 
I still wouldn't dream of typing anything substantial without a hardware (wifi) keyboard...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 21, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I still wouldn't dream of typing anything substantial without a hardware (wifi) keyboard...


 
Well I wouldn't write a book on it but the idea you can't do much more than a couple hundred words is nonsense ime.


----------



## Bungle73 (May 21, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Flash, yep, already agreed on that. Though - again - 3rd party browsers (e.g. Atomic, and is it Skyfire?!) can handle some flash. Flash videos don't seem to be a problem, not sure about interactive flash apps. I'm guessing that's where the difficulty lies.


Puffin and iSwifter both allow you to use interactive Flash apps.  The problem, though, comes when apps require the mouse pointer to hover over a certain area, which you obviously can't do with a touch screen.


----------



## mrs quoad (May 22, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well I wouldn't write a book on it but the idea you can't do much more than a couple hundred words is nonsense ime.


 
Yeahp! Requires a bit more concentration, mind


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## stuff_it (May 22, 2011)

Dunno, if I could afford one as an expensive toy then yes, but I couldn't afford to replace my main computer (my laptop, my only computer, etc) with it, as I'm far to set in my ways re: keyboard, *genuine* tactical feedback, etc.

I can't see that no matter how much more nifty tech they include (and yes I'm aware of the latest 'breakthroughs') that I will be able to chat shite/input data as fast as on a keyboard with keys that I am used to.


----------



## mrs quoad (May 22, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Dunno, if I could afford one as an expensive toy then yes, but I couldn't afford to replace my main computer (my laptop, my only computer, etc) with it, as I'm far to set in my ways re: keyboard, *genuine* tactical feedback, etc.
> 
> I can't see that no matter how much more nifty tech they include (and yes I'm aware of the latest 'breakthroughs') that I will be able to chat shite/input data as fast as on a keyboard with keys that I am used to.


The entirely wireless / separate keyboard I use (and'm using at the mo): 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Docked keyboard: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




e2a: and re: 'genuine tactical feedback,' I'm now regularly frustrated when I reach out to drag and drop / reshape / select something on my laptop screen


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> e2a: and re: 'genuine tactical feedback,' I'm now regularly frustrated when I reach out to drag and drop / reshape / select something on my laptop screen



I'm assuming _tactile_ feedback here rather than anything needing balaclavas and nightvision equipment. I'm always trying to scroll windows or touch links and checkboxes in my laptop as well though - particularly with any form that has a load of different radios and checkboxes on it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 26, 2011)

This is very nicely done!


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## mrs quoad (May 30, 2011)

I've just wirelessly printed something off (two-sided) from my laptop from a remote desktop on my iPad, having first emailed it from my iPad to my laptop 

(can't otherwise do 2-sided printing from the iPad)

Tomorrow is here


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 30, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I've just wirelessly printed something off (two-sided) from my laptop from a remote desktop on my iPad, having first emailed it from my iPad to my laptop
> 
> (can't otherwise do 2-sided printing from the iPad)
> 
> Tomorrow is here


 
Well that doesn't sound like a painful hack in the least, oh golly gosh no.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 2, 2011)

*Textbooks swapped for iPads by Irish school*

Interesting move that will boost educational attainment:



> iPads. Starting in September, St Coleman's College in the town of Claremorris in the west of Ireland will give students the option of learning from regular textbooks or specially equipped iPads, according to The Irish Times.
> 
> The school made the decision after consulting with students, teachers and parents for weeks. In the end, 96 percent of the people consulted supported the switch from books to iPads. Each iPad will be preloaded with a suite of educational apps.
> 
> Together the iPads and apps will cost €700 each, but the price will be spread across a three-year period. School principal Jimmy Finn told the Times that the value for the money was obvious. "It is a bit of a unique idea, but we have to continue to move with the times," he said. Finn also noted that the switch to the iPad isn't mandatory, and parents can choose to stick with textbooks for their children, though something tells me that if the children have it their way, the choice will clearly be the iPad.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2011)

Wandered down to the Covent Garden Apple store today (partner is thinking about getting a MacBook Air), had a play with the new iPad 2, have to say while it's visually a lot nicer looking it didn't feel any lighter nor did it really feel fantastically faster either. 

It's still a joy to use and I'm not sure what the problem is but found the screen VERY easy to type on, managed to get 95% accuracy on touch typing too, thumb typing was very easy as well. I could easily write lengthier documents on this (news articles 400-600 words) with this! So...I could sit on a beach and file copy without having to lug a laptop around with me. Temping...!


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 8, 2011)

British Library launch iPad app.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13683880


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 8, 2011)

anyone know of any good free synth apps , work have just given me an ipad and i want to make some noise


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> British Library launch iPad app.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13683880


 
Nice.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2011)

Haha this is a VERY cute use of the new smart cover!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

What would you buy.. a 64GB wifi + 3G iPad 1 or, for £80 more, a 16GB wifi + 3G iPad 2?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2011)

iPad 2. Storage not a big deal, but performance is.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2011)

Oh, I got one of these the other day, after playing with a mate's one: http://www.goincase.com/products/detail/cl57934







Basically it's a case for the bluetooth keyboard (which in itself is unusual, you don't see many cases for them) the top of which folds into a stand for the iPad when opened, and fastens with some velcro. This does help solve the "my nice keyboard is getting all mucky in my bag and occasionally turning itself on" and "for fuck's sake iPad why do you keep falling down when I try to put you on a table and then type on the keyboard" problems.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> iPad 2. Storage not a big deal, but performance is.


 
So these mumblings of 'no noticeable difference in performance' are to be ignored, then?

I really don't need an iPad. But I want one.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2011)

The UI won't feel any more responsive - it's already very smooth. But the 2 has twice the RAM and is dual core, and has about 8x the GFX power. Djay (an excellent DJ app) has a bunch of effects and time-stretching features that the 1 just can't handle. Games run smoother. Multitasking is better. iMovie doesn't even support the 1. It's thinner


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

Sold!

Now to justify it to the ladyfriend


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## Bungle73 (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm pretty sure apps will come out that will take full advantage of the 2's speed.

The 2 also has gyroscopes and cameras, which the 1 doesn't.  The Smartcover is only compatible with the 2 too; they're expensive, but very cool!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2011)

Yes, the 1 will be usable for a while but I wouldn't buy one right now. You have at least a year or so's longer useful life out of the 2, probably more as the rate of development is fast at the start of a product's life.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> iPad 2. Storage not a big deal, but performance is.


 
Yep. With so much cloud stuff going on now storage is less an issue than ever...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Sold!
> 
> Now to justify it to the ladyfriend


 
There should be a secret handbook for this that we can share with those who need it...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm tempted to lie and say work got it for me but that would be BAD.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm tempted to lie and say work got it for me but that would be BAD.


 
D'UDE! Seriously, no!


----------



## Kanda (Jun 13, 2011)

Do it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Do it.


 
I probably will.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I probably will.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


>


 
She spends way more on clothes. But no, I won't.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 13, 2011)

Or will you?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 13, 2011)

Meh, just do it..


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2011)

The issue is that you may also have to buy her one too.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep. With so much cloud stuff going on now storage is less an issue than ever...


 
3g connections on the other hand...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> She spends way more on clothes. But no, I won't.


 
Ok.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> 3g connections on the other hand...


 
Wifi too for the big stuff...


----------



## strung out (Jun 13, 2011)

buy it as a present for both of you. i'm sure she'll understand.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> buy it as a present for both of you. i'm sure she'll understand.


 
This is Dalai Lama style wisdom.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> buy it as a present for both of you. i'm sure she'll understand.


 
Last time I bought her a laptop out of guilt. She saw right through it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Last time I bought her a laptop out of guilt. She saw right through it.


 
Has she ever played with an iPad? If not generate an excuse to be in Covent Garden and casually suggest popping into the Apple store.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Has she ever played with an iPad? If not generate an excuse to be in Covent Garden and casually suggest popping into the Apple store.


 
Na, I wouldn't be able to keep that pretence up. I'd feel more guilty pretending it was shared than saying work got me it.


----------



## Greebozz (Jun 15, 2011)

Just a random


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's a fair point in a sense, the iPad created the tablet market in it's present incarnation, and delivered the first killer blow to the netbook market, all Android will do is finish the job.


The death of the netbook has been very much exaggerated:



> It has been suggested that media tablets are slowly killing the netbook market, and that both device types are “cannibalizing” sales of personal computers. Results of a survey of 1,142 consumers conducted by ABI Research in March, 2011 reveal that netbooks and media tablets are neck-and-neck in terms of consumer interest.
> 
> 25% of respondents rated themselves as either “extremely” or “very” interested in acquiring a netbook, while for media tablets, the number was 27%. Purchases of these companion devices are likely to result in a prolonged PC lifecycle and delay replacement.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2011)

Wacom launch iPad up for use with its stylus, not a fan of stylus on a tablet tbh, they haven't got the lag sorted so no deal for me until it can write on the screen as instantly as a pen does on paper...but it's interesting to see this being pushed by such a big company in this field.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 20, 2011)

I just downloaded that (it's free at the moment) and it's pretty good. It has noticeably less lag than some pen apps I've used and, crucially, _has a zoom_ unlike Penultimate. It's not as good as Noteshelf, which is still my favourite, but for free it's definitely worth a look.

It has also served its purpose in getting me interested in their stylus - if it's got a thinner tip and is more precise than the Boxwave I'll pay some hard cash. The Boxwave is nice but a pretty blunt instrument.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I just downloaded that (it's free at the moment) and it's pretty good. It has noticeably less lag than some pen apps I've used and, crucially, _has a zoom_ unlike Penultimate. It's not as good as Noteshelf, which is still my favourite, but for free it's definitely worth a look.
> 
> It has also served its purpose in getting me interested in their stylus - if it's got a thinner tip and is more precise than the Boxwave I'll pay some hard cash. The Boxwave is nice but a pretty blunt instrument.


 
Yeah the thick nib was another thing that put me off, don't know why but it just seemed odd that it wasn't a proper size...you have any idea how much the stylus costs?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 20, 2011)

yes, because I just ordered one  around £30


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> yes, because I just ordered one  around £30


 
Aha! Actually that's cheaper than I was expecting, the HTC flyer one is something stupid like 70 quid! I thought this would be about 50...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2011)

*iPad brand four times stronger than competing tablets*

Be interesting to see if this pans out but at the moment at least the tablet market does remind me of the mp3 market from a few years back...









> A new Bernstein Research survey suggests Apple will dominate the tablet market in the same way its iPods dominate the MP3 market. According to the survey, 50% of respondents in the US and the UK prefer the iPad over competing tablets. Surprisingly, even tablets from successful smartphone manufacturers can't compete with the iPad. *The survey results show the iPad is more popular in the US than tablets from HTC, Motorola, Nokia, Samsung and RIM combined.*
> 
> Apple also sets the standard for size with over 50% of respondents choosing the almost 10-inch display of the iPad over the 7-inch size used by Samsung and others. The preference is so strong that Bernstein Research predicts 7-inch tablets, like the BlackBerry PlayBook, are doomed to fail. Bernstein predicts two market scenarios for tablet devices, and in both situations, Apple is at the top and the other manufactures are vying for the leftover scraps.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Aha! Actually that's cheaper than I was expecting, the HTC flyer one is something stupid like 70 quid! I thought this would be about 50...


That's because there's a whole load more technology in the HTC one.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 20, 2011)

It's not really all that surprising that the iPad is by far the biggest tablet brand at the moment tbh. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's not really all that surprising that the iPad is by far the biggest tablet brand at the moment tbh. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't.


 
Indeed. The interesting thing is whether the tablet market will play out like the MP3 player or phone market. If it's the former Google can kiss goodbye any chance of its mobile OS beating iOS in unit terms in the medium to longer term...


----------



## elbows (Jun 21, 2011)

I suspect that 3rd party stylus's for the likes of the ipad will have pretty large nibs because the touchscreen & its OS implementation probably arent setup to detect very small things touching the screen.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 22, 2011)

Just got the Wacom stylus today. It's well-made and feels solid (as you'd expect for a bloody thirty quid stylus) and you could theoretically unscrew the tip and replace it, which is potentially quite valuable, depending on how much new tips cost. It definitely works well and the tip is smaller than my Boxwave, though it's still quite fat - I'd not use it to write with without using zoom.

It performs better than my Boxwave in terms of screen response as well, but having said that, the tip of my Boxwave is a bit knackered, so it's not really a fair comparison. What I'll do is compare the performance vs the styluses of some people at work, who have newer ones, when I go in next week.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2011)

Sounds interesting, what's the lag like?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 22, 2011)

Lag is pretty much all software - this hasn't affected it, but it's really not all that bad on the apps I have. A floppy tip that sticks to the screen (fnar) will cause some effective "lag" because the contact point doesn't move as fast as you move the stylus, I suppose, so a small firm tip will be better theoretically, but I can't say I've noticed a lot of difference. The performance gap between the Wacom and the Boxwave is more to do with responsiveness, and there are some odd holes in the rubber on the Boxwave now, which would influence that I guess.


----------



## dlx1 (Jun 22, 2011)

ipad stops working on sky news 23:32 

Showing front pages ppapers  using the pad a some kind of remote control for large screen. 

Don't  see the point of trying to be cutting eage.

Newsreader don't look like she use a touch screen before. Bloke on sofer looks like a new toy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

dlx1 said:


> ipad stops working on sky news 23:32
> 
> Showing front pages ppapers  using the pad a some kind of remote control for large screen.
> 
> ...


 
Live tv have had bigger mess ups long before the iPad came along.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

This is crazy!


----------



## Winot (Jun 27, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh, I got one of these the other day, after playing with a mate's one: http://www.goincase.com/products/detail/cl57934
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Fridgemagnet - did you get it from the goincase US store?  The Apple Store seem to have stopped stocking them and it looks like goincase is the only source, but I got stung for import duty when I order a case from a US store before.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 27, 2011)

Anyone got any idea what the going price for a wifi only, 16Gb iPad 1 is?

I want one for running one app only (Stagemix), hence only needing the lowest spec possible.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 27, 2011)

As low as £330 if you shop around. The ipad 2 16GB wifi can be had for £390ish, though. Worth it if you end up finding other uses...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2011)

Winot said:


> Fridgemagnet - did you get it from the goincase US store?  The Apple Store seem to have stopped stocking them and it looks like goincase is the only source, but I got stung for import duty when I order a case from a US store before.


 
No, I got it at the Apple Store on Regent Street. My friend had to ask them specifically for it (they don't always have all stock on the floor) but when I went, it was just sitting on a shelf.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jun 27, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Anyone got any idea what the going price for a wifi only, 16Gb iPad 1 is?
> 
> I want one for running one app only (Stagemix), hence only needing the lowest spec possible.



now and then they (16gb wifi only version) appear in the Apple store refurbished section for £289, and as we know, Apple refurbs are like new


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 27, 2011)

Crispy said:


> As low as £330 if you shop around. The ipad 2 16GB wifi can be had for £390ish, though. Worth it if you end up finding other uses...


 
Sorry, I meant 2nd hand...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 27, 2011)

do a search for completed auctions on ebay


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 27, 2011)

I reckon you should have no problem getting a 2nd hand 16gig gen wifi 1 iPad for 300 or less now...


----------



## Winot (Jun 27, 2011)

I sold my iPad 1 16GB wifi to my mate who did the research and told me the eBay going rate was £290.


----------



## electroplated (Jun 28, 2011)

any idea what a ipad 1 64GB 3G should go for - I might sell mine and get a ipad 2 or 3 at some point instead....


----------



## Kanda (Jun 28, 2011)

electroplated said:


> any idea what a ipad 1 64GB 3G should go for - I might sell mine and get a ipad 2 or 3 at some point instead....


 


Crispy said:


> do a search for completed auctions on ebay



....


----------



## electroplated (Jun 28, 2011)

done that already - they range from £400-£600+ but I was interested what the urban consensus was


----------



## Crispy (Jun 28, 2011)

It'll be no better


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2011)

Here's a handy comparison of the five best iPad styluses. 
http://www.techradar.com/news/table.../best-ipad-stylus-5-reviewed-and-rated-971755


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 29, 2011)

*iPad becomes the Apple of Holly's eye*

Great story!



> Holly Bligh, 9, has albinism, a genetic condition that affects not only the pigment in her skin, hair and eyes, but also her vision.
> 
> But the sight problems that once made school a struggle for Holly are now largely a thing of the past - and her parents thank her touch-screen tablet.
> 
> ...


----------



## strung out (Jul 12, 2011)

i quite fancy getting an ipad, just for this app







http://collider.com/star-trek-ipad-padd-app/101604/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2011)

Heh  I'm surprised it took so long tbh...


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2011)

Tablet sales down 28% this quarter " largely due to iPad shipments that were “well below expectations.”"

http://electricpig.co.uk/2011/07/12...l-by-28-percent-did-we-hit-the-tablet-bubble/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2011)

Trying to wreck another thread as usual I see.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 12, 2011)

Actually it was Q1 2011 where shipments were down, so before the iPad 2 launch. The same article points out that:


> IDC has raised its full-year shipment estimates to 53.5 million tablets, up from 50.4 million. The firm has high hopes for the iPad 2 and Android tablets.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jul 13, 2011)

can I just ask those who have ipads a quick question

Is it possible to have *one *Windows7 laptop and sync 2 different ipod touches and 2 ipads to *one *laptop (different user profiles with itunes installed into each)

2 people who will both have an ipod touch and an ipad each, both with their own iTunes accounts/log ins


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Actually it was Q1 2011 where shipments were down, so before the iPad 2 launch. The same article points out that:


It does, but it is interesting that the expected sales enormo-explosion hasn't continued to soar upwards in the way that some had predicted. 


> According to IDC, first quarter tablet shipments were down 28 percent sequentially, largely due to iPad shipments that were “well below expectations.”





Kid_Eternity said:


> Trying to wreck another thread as usual I see.


Can you just stop this please? A study commenting on iPad sales is completely on topic for a thread entitled: "Apple iPad 2 tablet: chats, opinions, discussions, rants etc"


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2011)

Throbbing Angel said:


> can I just ask those who have ipads a quick question
> 
> Is it possible to have *one *Windows7 laptop and sync 2 different ipod touches and 2 ipads to *one *laptop (different user profiles with itunes installed into each)
> 
> 2 people who will both have an ipod touch and an ipad each, both with their own iTunes accounts/log ins


 
Yes. Each itunes installation is separate from the other, so as long as the correct person is logged on to the computer, their iDevice will sync correctly.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jul 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Yes. Each itunes installation is separate from the other, so as long as the correct person is logged on to the computer, their iDevice will sync correctly.



cheers Crispy


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2011)

editor said:


> It does, but it is interesting that the expected sales enormo-explosion hasn't continued to soar upwards in the way that some had predicted.
> 
> Can you just stop this please? A study commenting on iPad sales is completely on topic for a thread entitled: "Apple iPad 2 tablet: chats, opinions, discussions, rants etc"


 
I'll stop when you stop.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 14, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'll stop when you stop.


 
How about just stopping anyway? Would be nice.

EDIT: Goes both ways - don't goad him, and don't respond to the goading.


----------



## Winot (Jul 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> How about just stopping anyway? Would be nice.


 
Seconded.  Tedious.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> How about just stopping anyway? Would be nice.
> 
> EDIT: Goes both ways - don't goad him, and don't respond to the goading.


 
The difference is influence I'm afraid, I say something which some people find disagreeable and it's just another post. He comes on threads so often (as plenty of people have said), and it's another thread junked; he basically trolls yet if you call him on it you get accused of shit stirring. It's bullshit. He's a nice guy in person but on certain threads he's just a wanker.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jul 14, 2011)

Winot said:


> Fridgemagnet - did you get it from the goincase US store?  The Apple Store seem to have stopped stocking them and it looks like goincase is the only source, but I got stung for import duty when I order a case from a US store before.


 
someone I know got theirs from the Irish store, dunno what the crack is there with import duty etc blah


----------



## Crispy (Jul 14, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The difference is influence I'm afraid, I say something which some people find disagreeable and it's just another post. He comes on threads so often (as plenty of people have said), and it's another thread junked; he basically trolls yet if you call him on it you get accused of shit stirring. It's bullshit. He's a nice guy in person but on certain threads he's just a wanker.



There's no need to keep goading him on. Rolling your eyes and telling him to shut up isn't going to fix the problem that you perceive.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 15, 2011)

Well, after much musing, I think I'm gonna get an iPad2. The stuff I can use it for at work is enough reason. I'd rather go down the Android route but the apps just aren't there yet.

Just need to save the pennies...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The difference is influence I'm afraid, I say something which some people find disagreeable and it's just another post. He comes on threads so often (as plenty of people have said), and it's another thread junked; he basically trolls yet if you call him on it you get accused of shit stirring. It's bullshit. He's a nice guy in person but on certain threads he's just a wanker.


 
In fairness, over the last 6 months or so you've become as bad as each other.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> There's no need to keep goading him on. Rolling your eyes and telling him to shut up isn't going to fix the problem that you perceive.


 
You sure you're not aiming that him? *shrugs*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, after much musing, I think I'm gonna get an iPad2. The stuff I can use it for at work is enough reason. I'd rather go down the Android route but the apps just aren't there yet.
> 
> Just need to save the pennies...


 
Yep, that's basically what I'm thinking  , also means my iOS apps will still be in use as I'm seriously considering getting an Android phone (the Samsung is looking VERY tempting!).


----------



## Crispy (Jul 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You sure you're not aiming that him? *shrugs*


 
Both of you


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Both of you


 
Think it's probably best to drop it now, it's plain his behaviour has won in tarring me with the same brush just because I couldn't be bothered to accept the bullshit. Let's move on eh?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't think either of you has won. You're both just as gleeful at pro/anti Apple stuff as each other. Personally I quite enjoy it


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> ...Personally I quite enjoy it



So do I


----------



## Crispy (Jul 16, 2011)

It ruins threads


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 16, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It ruins threads


 
It's the _whole point_ of Apple threads.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2011)

*What the iPad's success says about us*

Here's one writer's attempting to dissect why people buy the iPad...not sure you really need to read too much into consumer choices in a sense, people like cool things that allow them to do things they like in a convenient way...although he coasts near a pertinent point with this:



> The audience for computers now is the audience for the Internet, the audience for e-mail, the audience for...being a modern human being. To make a computer for this new audience, you can't presume that people have the patience or capacity to understand a printer driver or a kernel exception. The number of people concerned about not having root access to their iPads pales in comparison with the number of people who would freak out if Angry Birds suddenly disappeared.



Two things, basically, inform my views on consumer electronics:

1) Corporate reality and how business works
2) Consumer behaviour - needs and desires, not prosumers or professionals behaviour.

The quote above pretty much relates to that, imo and ime, your average person doesn't care about the things the geekocracy care about (or at least in the same way). I don't care about the company, in fact terms like 'care' etc are a bit odd to apply to a money making machine, but see things more in terms of the bet that a company makes on where the market will go so they can dominate to maximise profits for their shareholders. 

This is the reason I reckon Apple has it spot on with the iPad and it's marketing not because of some weirdo brand loyalty! Adverts with lines like 'your wife will love our tegra chipset' are not just fucking funny to hear, they demonstrate bad business judgement, people don't give a shit about the chipset, they care about the experience.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2011)

iPad drivel from the mail: School orders parents to buy their children a £600 iPad2, fairly accurately described as "Baby Boomer future shock". Obviously the headline isn't actually true, but of course it goes on...



> Experts yesterday criticised Longfield for piling pressure on cash-strapped parents to pay for the ‘toy’.
> 
> They questioned the school’s desire to use iPads as an educational tool – saying they were more suited to watching movies, surfing the internet and playing music.
> 
> And they warned that it will lead to an increase in the number of pupils viewing porn.


"Experts" here of course means, well, Sue Palmer, who writes an awful lot of Telegraph-friendly "expert" opinion about how everything modern is bad.

Also includes the shock revelation that the school is installing interactive whiteboards, which haven't been common in schools for years or anything.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> iPad drivel from the mail: School orders parents to buy their children a £600 iPad2, fairly accurately described as "Baby Boomer future shock". Obviously the headline isn't actually true, but of course it goes on...
> 
> 
> "Experts" here of course means, well, Sue Palmer, who writes an awful lot of Telegraph-friendly "expert" opinion about how everything modern is bad.
> ...


Heard about this on the local news.

While I'd question the need to give every child an iPad, and the need, if they really have to have one, not to issue them with most basic model, this bit really perplexed me:




			
				Daily Fail said:
			
		

> And they warned that it will lead to an increase in the number of pupils viewing porn.


I mean WTF??


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2011)

It's the special Apple iPorn chip. It all looks like it's just allowing educational stuff, but when parents aren't watching, it switches over to double-anal mode.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's the special Apple iPorn chip. It all looks like it's just allowing educational stuff, but when parents aren't watching, it switches over to double-anal mode.


 
*cue parents stealing school iPads from children and blaming everything on them*


----------



## LDR (Jul 19, 2011)

A college in New Zealand has told parents the iPad 2 will be a compulsory stationery item for all year nine pupils next year.

Parents are expected to pay.  Hmmm....

Source here.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2011)

LDR said:


> A college in New Zealand has told parents the iPad 2 will be a compulsory stationery item for all year nine pupils next year.
> 
> Parents are expected to pay.  Hmmm....
> 
> Source here.


That's ridiculous and it looks like most 'normal' people agree:


> In a Stuff online poll, 91 per cent of the 4689 respondents believed it was an unnceccessary expense for parents to pay for an iPad for their child's use at school.


And imagine the poor kid who has to end up using the college computer while all their well heeled mates are playing on their shiny iPads:


> Orewa College principal Kate Shevland said the school's computers would provide an option for those who could not get the money together for the iPad.


----------



## LDR (Jul 19, 2011)

It's bloody ridculous alright.  I'm shocked that it's even being considered.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2011)

LDR said:


> A college in New Zealand has told parents the iPad 2 will be a compulsory stationery item for all year nine pupils next year.
> 
> Parents are expected to pay.  Hmmm....
> 
> Source here.


 
Nothing wrong with it being compulsory but parents shouldn't have to pay, they already paid for their child's education through taxes.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 19, 2011)

In my day all we needed to bring to school was a pen and pencil, now they have to bring £600 iPads.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> In my day all we needed to bring to school was a pen and pencil, now they have to bring £600 iPads.


Yeah, but the kids wil be so much brighter than we ever were because, err, they'll have iPads!

I could just about it understand if they were talking about Kindles, but there's no justification for something as expensive as an iPad.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nothing wrong with it being compulsory but parents shouldn't have to pay, they already paid for their child's education through taxes.


So who do you think should be paying for them, then?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 19, 2011)

Would this be a problem if it was a compulsory Windows laptop instead of an iPad?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2011)

editor said:


> So who do you think should be paying for them, then?


 
Read my post again for the magic answer.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Would this be a problem if it was a compulsory Windows laptop instead of an iPad?


 
Heh yeah Apple fanbois would be irate!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 19, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Would this be a problem if it was a compulsory Windows laptop instead of an iPad?


 
The price point and the ability to properly word process* and use proper spreadsheets would make it less of a problem, I'd say.

*Please don't someone come back and say "I can use an iPad in just the same way as people use desktops, actually" because, frankly, it's bollocks.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> The price point and the ability to properly word process* and use proper spreadsheets would make it less of a problem, I'd say.
> 
> *Please don't someone come back and say "I can use an iPad in just the same way as people use desktops, actually" because, frankly, it's bollocks.


 
You really think a thread like this has the capacity to be original?


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Would this be a problem if it was a compulsory Windows laptop instead of an iPad?


If it was a £600 one without a proper keyboard, yes, of course.


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Read my post again for the magic answer.


So you think _everyone_ should be taxed so that children can have the latest high end expensive gadget? How do you think that would go down with taxpayers?


----------



## Kanda (Jul 20, 2011)

editor said:


> So you think _everyone_ should be taxed so that children can have the latest high end expensive gadget? How do you think that would go down with taxpayers?


 
He didn't quite say that. Please please fucking stop it!!!


----------



## Kanda (Jul 20, 2011)

editor said:


> If it was a £600 one without a proper keyboard, yes, of course.


 
Paid for by whom?


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Kanda said:


> He didn't quite say that. Please please fucking stop it!!!


He said the "parents shouldn't have to pay." 

So, err, who does that leave to pick up the tab for these compulsory shiny iPads for every kid? 



Kid_Eternity said:


> Nothing wrong with it being compulsory but parents shouldn't have to pay, they already paid for their child's education through taxes.


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Paid for by whom?


You've misread both the question and the answer.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 20, 2011)

editor said:


> You've misread both the question and the answer.


 
Nope.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 20, 2011)

It's a barking headmaster who's gone off on one, IMO.

Though they HAVE given parents 6 months notice, so that even the poorest can save up for one (ffs!)



ChrisFilter said:


> The price point and the ability to properly word process* and use proper spreadsheets would make it less of a problem, I'd say.
> 
> *Please don't someone come back and say "I can use an iPad in just the same way as people use desktops, actually" because, frankly, it's bollocks.


 
 

In a broadly similar way, maybe 

But being able to add footnotes in text files, and print out PDFs in pure black and white / 4 pages to a sheet is a major advantage!


----------



## Kanda (Jul 20, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> It's a barking headmaster who's gone off on one, IMO.


 



> If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you
> have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?"


----------



## magneze (Jul 20, 2011)

Ignoring the stupid idea that the parents have to pay for thing, this is a really shit idea.

Tablets are not widespread in the workplace. They are not widespread anywhere really. Plus they are specifying the manufacturer. With a laptop, they could just say "a laptop". At least the children would be using something that has a good chance of being useful in later life. A tablet _might_ be useful, but it's a pretty big _might_ at the moment.


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## maldwyn (Jul 20, 2011)

I had a hard enough time keeping track of my pencil case and protractor.


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## mrs quoad (Jul 20, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I had a hard enough time keeping track of my pencil case and protractor.


 
Perhaps they sew name tags on their iPads?


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## g force (Jul 20, 2011)

magneze said:


> Ignoring the stupid idea that the parents have to pay for thing, this is a really shit idea.
> 
> Tablets are not widespread in the workplace. They are not widespread anywhere really. Plus they are specifying the manufacturer. With a laptop, they could just say "a laptop". At least the children would be using something that has a good chance of being useful in later life. A tablet _might_ be useful, but it's a pretty big _might_ at the moment.


 
This. Our CEO has and iPad. Our CTO has an iPad...everyone else has laptops (Macbooks or Dell - talk about ends of a spectrum!!!) so the idea kids should learn on a tablet is ridiculous. Doubly so on an expensive piece of hardware - if Apple were serious about the education market, as their ads suggest, they'd offer their hardware far cheaper to schools etc. Buit they don't want to as it 'devalues' their brand.


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## Lazy Llama (Jul 20, 2011)

In some of the schools which do mandate a Windows laptop, they insist that pupils all have the same make and model in order to 'level the playing field' and maintain compatibility.

Disadvantages of laptops in schools? Heavy, bulky, generally shorter battery life than a school day, awkward for reading significant amounts of text, relatively fragile when bumped around in a school bag to and from home. Machines which are sturdy, light, slim and have long battery lives tend to cost more.

At least one UK school provides an iPad to every pupil and member of staff and has generally found them better devices for general education (i.e. not for teaching how to use MS Office).


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## Crispy (Jul 20, 2011)

Quite - the point isn't to teach "how to use a tablet" (a lesson that teaches itself, really), but to replace textbooks and add interactive learning software that can be much more engaging than older teaching methods. Doesn't matter what model of tablet.


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## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Disadvantages of laptops in schools? Heavy, bulky, generally shorter battery life than a school day, awkward for reading significant amounts of text, relatively fragile when bumped around in a school bag to and from home. Machines which are sturdy, light, slim and have long battery lives tend to cost more.


There's no denying that iPads are lovely things, but there is no way on earth you can justify the cost for parents (or indeed, taxpayers). 

A cheap laptop/netbook costing under half the price will comfortably do everything that an iPad will do - and more - and come with the distinct advantage of coming with a full keyboard plus SD card slot, and the ability to run full versions of Office, Photoshop etc.

As has been said earlier, if Apple were really interested in providing the best tools for the education market, they'd offer a cheaper version.

As for battery life, most netbooks will do 4-5 hours. I think it would be a bit odd if kids were staring at screens for any longer than half their day anyway.


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## elbows (Jul 20, 2011)

The tablet form factor has some potential in the educational sector. But I think it needs more time, and for various educational IT providers to come up with a more comprehensive ecosystem that uses such devices (a variety of networked apps). For a start I would think that if you have a classroom full of iPads, you are going to want control over the devices during lessons, so that half the class are not playing angry birds instead of learning.

As for the price, hmmm, Im not exactly an expert in IT procurement in education, but I know a little bit about one schools spending in the past, and let me tell you a lot of money has been spent on equipment that did not always represent good value, and is within the same sort of price range as iPads are today. The school I know about had lots of windows tablets at one point, they were likely quite pricey, were not very good, and did not last. And as I assume this was sorted out at the county education authorities level at the time, they were surely not alone.


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## Crispy (Jul 20, 2011)

The value of just having textbooks on tablets must be pretty high (even without considering the price differenetial between dead trees and ebooks) in terms of keeping them up to date, having enough copies, no need for storage or lugging them around etc. - I know a Kindle could do the same job, but the speed of interaction and better support for graphics makes tablets better suited IMO.


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## magneze (Jul 20, 2011)

Call me a luddite if you will, but many kids (and adults, myself included) spend far too much time in front of a screen already. Traditional learning in the classroom with textbooks and visual aids that help the students interact properly with each other - FTW.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 20, 2011)

Kanda said:


> He didn't quite say that. Please please fucking stop it!!!


 
See the shit you have to put up with? You dare respond to the trolling and then you're tarred with the same brush....


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## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> See the shit you have to put up with? You dare respond to the trolling and then you're tarred with the same brush....


I keep asking but I can't get a straight answer to your statement below. 



Kid_Eternity said:


> Nothing wrong with it being compulsory but parents shouldn't have to pay, they already paid for their child's education through taxes.



If you think that the parents "shouldn't have to pay" for all these 'compulsory' iPads, could you explain exactly _who_ would be footing the bill?


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## revol68 (Jul 20, 2011)

Wouldn't an iPad in every classroom actually risk damaging Apples brand image, they''d risk becoming the caricature they presented of the PC not to mention move from a premium small luxury brand to that company that make those things we use in school when we are forced to go.

I'd suggest this is little more than a PR exercise by a school looking to appear cool and "forward thinking".


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> A cheap laptop/netbook costing under half the price will comfortably do everything that an iPad will do - and more - and come with the distinct advantage of coming with a full keyboard plus SD card slot, and the ability to run full versions of Office, Photoshop etc.


 
Where is this £200 device that will happily run Photoshop?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> I keep asking but I can't get a straight answer to your statement below.
> 
> 
> 
> If you think that the parents "shouldn't have to pay" for all these 'compulsory' iPads, could you explain exactly _who_ would be footing the bill?


 
You're an idiot if you really don't understand how tax works. And youre a fine one to talk about not giving a straight answer!


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## mrs quoad (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> the distinct advantage of coming with a full keyboard


 
Just a thought, but maybe the full keyboard isn't always considered an advantage. If - as Cripsy suggests - the school IS looking of ways of cutting back on books, etc, then the whole point of a tablet being a tablet seems far more relevant to their interests!


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You're an idiot if you really don't understand how tax works. And youre a fine one to talk about not giving a straight answer!


I fully understand how tax works, and I'd rather you'd just give a straight answer to my question instead of throwing around unnecessary insults.  For the fourth time of asking: who would pay for all these 'compulsory' iPads for children if you think that the parents "shouldn't have to pay"?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Where is this £200 device that will happily run Photoshop?


I don't recall quoting a price of £200, but you could certainly run Photoshop Elements on a cheap netbook like the £199 Samsung N145 Plus. The netbook costs around a third of the price of a iPad2 and has a proper keyboard, 10 hours battery life, built in USB ports and a 4 way card reader (so kids could add their camera photos easily). And, of course, it will run industry standard programs like Office too. 

Which do you think represents best value for poorer families?


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't recall quoting a price of £200, but you could certainly run Photoshop Elements on a cheap netbook like the £199 Samsung N145 Plus. The netbook costs around a third of the price of a iPad2 and has a proper keyboard, 10 hours battery life, built in USB ports and a 4 way card reader (so kids could add their camera photos easily). And, of course, it will run industry standard programs like Office too.
> 
> Which do you think represents best value for poorer families?



You said "A cheap laptop/netbook costing under half the price will comfortably do everything that an iPad will do - and more"

The entry level iPad is £399, so your cheap laptop/netbook would have to cost £200

Looking at your device, when you factor in a license for PS Elements (£60?) and then Student Office (£80?) you start getting close to an entry level iPad (and that's only having 2 applications on your netbook).

iMovie & (soon) iPhoto on the iPad will give users the ability to get creative with their images in a way that is impossible on your suggestion, what video software can you run on that Samsung? and how much will you be paying for it? iMovie is £2.99

Of course we're not talking high-end here, you'll be lucky to get a portable device that would be able to run today's high-end video/graphics software for under a grand, especially when you start looking at software licences and an external screen.

But we're not talking high-end here, which is why I think a device like the iPad is great for education, it gives the user a whole new way of interacting with data, have you seen kids playing with these things in an Apple store? for me it's not so much about what they have running (games/films/educational apps) but the way they interact with these things.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> You said "A cheap laptop/netbook costing under half the price will comfortably do everything that an iPad will do - and more"
> 
> The entry level iPad is £399, so your cheap laptop/netbook would have to cost £200
> 
> ...


Actually, the New Zealand school specified the *iPad2* which starts far higher than £399 - and then you'd probably want to add an external keyboard and  USB port dongle. 

FYI, Windows 7 comes with an image/movie editing package that is certainly good enough for kids, while education discounts of useful, industry standard software tools like Office take it under £38, or there's plenty of capable free open source alternatives. Many netbooks come with Photoshop Elements preloaded anyway.

I've no doubt that the iPad2 is a great device for education and perhaps it is a "whole new way of interacting with data", but that's not the point. 

It's all about whether it represents _the best possible value_ and whether children should be compelled to buy them.


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## ChrisFilter (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Actually, the New Zealand school specified the *iPad2* which starts far higher than £399


 
Na, it's £399 for the 16GB wifi-only iPad 2.


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Actually, the New Zealand school specified the *iPad2* which starts far higher than £399 - and then you'd probably want to add an external keyboard and  USB port dongle.
> 
> FYI, Windows 7 comes with an image/movie editing package that is certainly good enough for kids, while education discounts of useful, industry standard software tools like Office take it under £38, or there's plenty of capable free open source alternatives. Many netbooks come with Photoshop Elements preloaded anyway.
> 
> ...



Well my point isn't about being _compelled_ to do anything, it's about the device itself, and personally speaking, for £410 I would rather buy my kid an iPad with £10 to spend on software, than your option with £210 to spend on software (and you can tell me there's free stuff for your option, but nothing like the free stuff for my option).

And factoring in using these 2 devices over a 12 month period I'm willing to gamble that you're still going to be spending money one way or another on your device (games?) that I won't need to.

And of course how much will each of us get back on our devices if we wish to sell on eBay?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Well my point isn't about being _compelled_ to do anything, it's about the device itself, and personally speaking, for £410 I would rather buy my kid an iPad with £10 to spend on software, than your option with £210 to spend on software (and you can tell me there's free stuff for your option, but nothing like the free stuff for my option).
> 
> And factoring in using these 2 devices over a 12 month period I'm willing to gamble that you're still going to be spending money one way or another on your device (games?) that I won't need to.
> 
> And of course how much will each of us get back on our devices if we wish to sell on eBay?


Perhaps you can afford £410 for your child, but I suspect that for many parents - particularly ones with large families - that's going to be a truly _crippling_ amount. 

Not sure what eBay has got to do with anything - these devices are supposed to be for the duration of the kids education -  but I'm pretty sure parents would be able to pick up perfectly capable laptops/netbooks for their kids for far less than any iPad2 on there. By specifying such a modern, high end device, there's no chance of parents passing down their old laptops either. Compelling children to come to school with an iPad2 is a ridiculous, faddish decision and I'm not surprised the vast majority of those people asked said so too.


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

BTW, the OS on that POS £229 netbook you linked to (windows 7 starter) doesn't appear to do any of the following:

* Aero Glass, meaning you can only use the Windows Basic or other opaque themes. It also means you do not get Taskbar Previews or Aero Peek. 
    * Personalization features for changing desktop backgrounds, window colors, or sound schemes. 
    * The ability to switch between users without having to log off. 
    * 64 bit version 
    * Multi-monitor support. 
    * DVD playback. 
    * Windows Media Center for watching recorded TV or other media. 
    * Remote Media Streaming for streaming your music, videos, and recorded TV from your home computer. 

Will it even run your sub £40 Office suite? (not that I really care)


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> BTW, the OS on that POS £229 netbook you linked to (windows 7 starter) doesn't appear to do any of the following:
> 
> * Aero Glass, meaning you can only use the Windows Basic or other opaque themes. It also means you do not get Taskbar Previews or Aero Peek.
> * Personalization features for changing desktop backgrounds, window colors, or sound schemes.
> ...


Why would a child need Aero glass? Why would they need multi monitor support? Why would they be using it to record TV? Why would they want a 64 bit version? Why would they want Remote Media Streaming? Why are you posting up this irrelevant nonsense?!


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Perhaps you can afford £410 for your child, but I suspect that for many parents - particularly ones with large families - that's going to be a truly _crippling_ amount.
> 
> Not sure what eBay has got to do with anything - these devices are supposed to be for the duration of the kids education -  but I'm pretty sure parents would be able to pick up perfectly capable laptops/netbooks for their kids for far less than any iPad2 on there. By specifying such a modern, high end device, there's no chance of parents passing down their old laptops either. Compelling children to come to school with an iPad2 is a ridiculous, faddish decision and I'm not surprised the vast majority of those people asked said so too.



As we have already surmised, you're already spending £270 on your severely crippled netbook (with Photoshop Elements) unsure if we can run our Office Suite. I'm guessing that you will still need to spend a few bob on something else, especially if young timmy wants to work with some film clips. So what bargain basement website can I buy some video software to run on this particular netbook? and how much will it cost? and will windows 7 starter even run it?

Just for the fun of it lets round your number up to £300?

I would rather pay £99 extra for an iPad, and as I've already mentioned, I'm willing to gamble that the extra layout at the beginning will be well worth it later in the year.


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Why would a child need Aero glass? Why would they need multi monitor support? Why would they be using it to record TV? Why would they want a 64 bit version? Why would they want Remote Media Streaming? Why are you posting up this irrelevant nonsense?!



Irrelevant? you are the one championing cheap netbooks/laptops, as well as their obvious hardware limitations, I was surprised to see how crippled that particular OS is too, especially when compared to a standard laptop OS.


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## magneze (Jul 21, 2011)

FFS, give them pen and paper to work with. A ball and a roll of bubble-wrap to play with. Easy.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> As we have already surmised, you're already spending £270 on your severely crippled netbook (with Photoshop Elements) unsure if we can run our Office Suite.


I wish you'd do your research properly. There's nothing remotely "crippled" about a cheap netbook like the Samsung N145 (currently five star rated on Amazon with 2,378 reviews, priced at £194) and it runs Office with no problems at all.

Why do you think it's better for children to pay three times as much for a machine without a proper keyboard, by the way? Are you arguing that onscreen keyboards are better than proper physical ones? And how are kids going to get their photos and videos on to their iPads from their cameras without a USB port/SD card slot?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Irrelevant? you are the one championing cheap netbooks/laptops, as well as their obvious hardware limitations, I was surprised to see how crippled that particular OS is too, especially when compared to a standard laptop OS.


Tell you what. Let's forget about netbooks and this daft talk about "crippled" systems and move up to a fully fledged laptop. 

So which do you think represents the best value for parents: 

1. An iPad2 (no keyboard, no USB ports, no SD card) for a _minimum_ of £399

2. A £259 Acer Aspire 5336 laptop offering a full size keyboard, Intel Celeron Dual Core T3500 2.1GHz, 3GB RAM, far more storage at 320GB HDD, bigger 15.6" TFT screen, DVD Writer/Reader, far better connectivity with 3 USB/HDMI ports, all running Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit and able to support industry standard software?

*Just to repeat: I think the iPad2 would be a wonderful machine for schools, but I feel it does not represent the best possible value and making it compulsory is a ludicrously faddish notion.


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> I wish you'd do your research properly. There's nothing remotely "crippled" about a cheap netbook like the Samsung N145 (currently five star rated on Amazon with 2,378 reviews, priced at £194) and it runs Office with no problems at all.
> 
> Why do you think it's better for children to pay three times as much for a machine without a proper keyboard, by the way? Are you arguing that onscreen keyboards are better than proper physical ones? And how are kids going to get their photos and videos on to their iPads from their cameras without a USB port/SD card slot?



That laptop is running w7s, which is a crippled version of w7.

The first 3 reviews i read said that they immediately upgraded the memory to 2GB (from the stock 1GB).

Here's a typical comment _"first off it was quite apparent on first use that 1GB RAM is nowhere near enough for hassle free web browsing"[i/]

web browsing 

And where are you getting this *3 times as much* bollocks from again? the entry level iPad is £399, that cheapo netbook you've just linked to costs £194 and doesn't come with any software, or enough RAM. 
I would say that by the time you purchased your cut down Photoshop app, that 'unsure if it will run well' Office Suite, the 'as yet unknown' video software, and your extra bit of RAM, you'll be over the £300 mark again...


And the camera connection kit is £25, about the same price as the extra RAM you'll need to be able to have hassle free web browsing._


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> That laptop is running w7s, which is a crippled version of w7.


Please see above and tell me which you think represents the best all round value for parents. The iPad2 or a fully fledged laptop for nearly half the price?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't think you answered this question, so I'll ask again. 

Seeing as writing essays is an everyday part of a child's education, do you think that an onscreen keyboard is better than a physical one? Or would you expect parents to shell out even more for an iPad accessory keyboard too (along with the extra USB port/SD slot)?


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Tell you what. Let's forget about netbooks and this daft talk about "crippled" systems and move up to a fully fledged laptop.
> 
> So which do you think represents the best value for parents:
> 
> ...



The specs aren't as important as the ability to run the actual software smoothly, so with that in mind, and the fact that your latest offer doesn't actually come with any software, how much extra will you be spending on a photo app/Office app/video app? never mind other things like games? 

You'll be lucky if you can get 4 *decent* licensed applications covering these areas on that thing for under £100, which puts you, pretty much, back on level pegging with the iPad.

You could attempt to run the full Photoshop on your little number, but we all know it will run like dogshit, and of course there is the price.

and there is plenty of cheap bluetooth keyboards out there that you can use for the iPad, if that's what you want.

Of course Bluetooth is pretty handy for that sort of stuff, although you wouldn't know that if you bought your particular machine.


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't think you answered this question, so I'll ask again.
> 
> Seeing as writing essays is an everyday part of a child's education, do you think that an onscreen keyboard is better than a physical one? Or would you expect parents to shell out even more for an iPad accessory keyboard too (along with the extra USB port/SD slot)?



If you went fully with Apple's products, and not cheaper options, you would be spending £480 on an iPad with a fancy keyboard and all your camera attachment bits & bobs. Your £256 Acer is still over half that before you have put _any_ software on it.
So you have to at least cover one Photo/Office/Video application (all running decently) with roughly £220 to spend.

Personally, I wouldn't take the chance.

If, OTOH my kid wanted to learn computer programming, well then I would look for something else (although it would certainly not be running windows of any shade).


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> The specs aren't as important as the ability to run the actual software smoothly, so with that in mind, and the fact that your latest offer doesn't actually come with any software, how much extra will you be spending on a photo app/Office app/video app? never mind other things like games?
> 
> You'll be lucky if you can get 4 *decent* licensed applications covering these areas on that thing for under £100, which puts you, pretty much, back on level pegging with the iPad.
> 
> ...


For the *last time*. Windows comes with a fully fledged video editor. It's called Windows Live Movie Maker 2011 and CNet called it "very good." There's also a good Image editor called Windows Live Photo Gallery 2011, which also garnered a positive review. There's also built in word processors, calculators and loads of every day useful stuff.

Photoshop Elements would run absolutely fine on that machine (this is for children, remember?), and users can download a ton of popular software for free (like Open Office which is more powerful than anything on the iPad).

There is no need for children to drag along (or more likely forget) additional keyboards, USB ports and SD dongles, and they're getting a reasonably powerful, versatile machine with more storage, a bigger screen and more connectivity options for far less than the cost of an iPad.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> If you went fully with Apple's products, and not cheaper options, you would be spending £480 on an iPad with a fancy keyboard and all your camera attachment bits & bobs. Your £256 Acer is still over half that before you have put _any_ software on it.
> So you have to at least cover one Photo/Office/Video application (all running decently) with roughly £220 to spend.


You keep banging on about video, so tell me what happens when little Jimmy brings in his video recorder and wants to put it on his iPad to edit, and then share it with his friends after. And maybe send a copy to his Aunt who's only got a DVD player.

And, as you've already pointed out, if kids want to learn coding and programming, then a laptop is a far better tool. You are aware that programming is pretty much an everyday part of schools now?


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> There is no need for children to drag along (or more likely forget) additional keyboards, USB ports and SD dongles, and they're getting a reasonably powerful, versatile machine with more storage, a bigger screen and more connectivity options for far less than the cost of an iPad.



You'll have to factor in an extra bag (with strong straps) to carry that fucking thing around in though 

The iPad is £399, your Acer (that apparently already comes with all the software I would need) is £259

That's a difference of £140 - I find it very difficult to believe I wouldn't have to chip into that £140 to buy some decent software to run on that thing.

What are your game options for a start? Minesweeper?

And I wasn't joking about you buying a bag, that Acer is over 4x heavier than an iPad.


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## ChrisFilter (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> You keep banging on about video, so tell me what happens when little Jimmy brings in his video recorder and wants to put it on his iPad to edit, and then share it with his friends after. And maybe send a copy to his Aunt who's only got a DVD player.
> 
> And, as you've already pointed out, if kids want to learn coding and programming, then a laptop is a far better tool. You are aware that programming is pretty much an everyday part of schools now?



I suppose little Jimmy could just do the filming with his iPad.

I'm with you, editor, in that the iPad could be an amazing thing for education but that it's too expensive.

I'm with sunnyside, however, in that a full size laptop does have it's limitations and could end up costing a similar amount.


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> You keep banging on about video



Well the iPad shoots video, HD video in fact, is this an option with the Acer? if not how much extra will I be paying to be able to do that? or do you expect me already to own an HD camera?

And I can take stills as well, is that possible with the overweight Acer? not another accessory I have to buy is it?

Your option is starting to become a bit of a financial black-hole...


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> What are your game options for a start? Minesweeper?


It's for education, not gaming, FFS. 


sunnysidedown said:


> I find it very difficult to believe I wouldn't have to chip into that £140 to buy some decent software to run on that thing.


Does Office come with the iPad then? Can you get Photoshop to run on it? 

And once you add up all the extras needed for the iPad - keyboard £57, AV adapter £35 etc, then the price just keeps on going up for a machine that still won't have built in USB ports or DVD player. 
Nah, the vast majority of voters in that poll were completely correct. The iPad2 is a truly idiotic compulsory choice for cash strapped parents.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Well the iPad shoots video, HD video in fact, is this an option with the Acer? if not how much extra will I be paying to be able to do that? or do you expect me already to own an HD camera?


You think the iPad2 is a practical video camera? You don't think kids wouldn't be a little vulnerable wandering around their neighbourhoods waving an iPad around? LOL.

But you haven't answered my question. So Timmy comes in with his video camera with footage for his project. How does he import and edit it onto his iPad and how does he burn a DVD to mail off to his aunt?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Well the iPad shoots video, HD video in fact, is this an option with the Acer? if not how much extra will I be paying to be able to do that? or do you expect me already to own an HD camera?
> 
> And I can take stills as well, is that possible with the overweight Acer? not another accessory I have to buy is it?
> 
> Your option is starting to become a bit of a financial black-hole...


No matter how you try and spin it, the iPad remains *vastly* more expensive. 

PS Colleges usually have cameras which students can borrow. Now, how do they get that footage into their iPads....!


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## ChrisFilter (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm now in the "who gives a fuck" camp.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm now in the "who gives a fuck" camp.


I've lost interest now too. The good people of NZ have already voted on this and they agree that's it's a fucking daft idea.


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> No matter how you try and spin it, the iPad remains *vastly* more expensive.


 
haha... yeah whatever.


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## Lazy Llama (Jul 21, 2011)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedars-school/ for some of the art work created on iPads at Cedars School of Excellence in Scotland (where every pupil has an iPad).


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## elbows (Jul 21, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cedars-school/ for some of the art work created on iPads at Cedars School of Excellence in Scotland (where every pupil has an iPad).


 
I'd be all sad if I went to that school right now.....



> In order to carry out maintenance and upgrading on the iPads, all devices should be handed in to class / guidance teachers on the pupil's last day at school before going on holiday. No iPads should remain with pupils over the holidays.



http://cedars.inverclyde.sch.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Nooooooo!

Seems like a tiny church-run school so its a much smaller and more controlled environment that makes iPad deployment more practical on a number of fronts I would think.


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## mrs quoad (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Can you get Photoshop to run on it?


Whilst wary of stepping into this particular mudpit... 

Which photoshop?

Isn't a standard CS5 license something like £650? If there's a huge educational discount, I'd love to know!

There's photoshop elements on iPad, for free. Not fantastic, but other programmes like Filterstorm do a pretty reputable photo editing job.

The full iWork suite - on iPad - costs £18. It isn't, perhaps, as all-out as MS Office, but it has all the basics (apart from footnotes!) and is half the cost. 

And a bluetooth keyboard (after educational discount) is £34 (as opposed to £57). Fwiw.


e2a: ok! Photoshop CS5 is $199, with educational discount! I'm vaguely, vaguely tempted by that! e2a2: actually, on second thoughts, I'm not.


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Whilst wary of stepping into this particular mudpit...
> 
> Which photoshop?
> 
> ...


I've mentioned Photoshop Elements several times now, and it's not unusual for that to come pre-installed on netbooks/laptops (i.e. at no extra cost). It's infinitely more powerful that anything you'll find on an iPad.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 21, 2011)

editor said:


> I've mentioned Photoshop Elements several times now, and it's not unusual for that to come pre-installed on netbooks/laptops (i.e. at no extra cost). It's infinitely more powerful that anything you'll find on an iPad.


 
I'm guessing that's different from the Photoshop Elements that's free on the iPad, then? 

Probably is, tbf.

e2a: oop! Photoshop Express, even. So that'll be a yes, then!


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I'm guessing that's different from the Photoshop Elements that's free on the iPad, then?
> 
> Probably is, tbf.
> 
> e2a: oop! Photoshop Express, even. So that'll be a yes, then!


Photoshop Express is an _extremely_ basic piece of software compared to Elements.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> Photoshop Express is an _extremely_ basic piece of software compared to Elements.


 
I hear that the version of Fun Express that comes with netbooks is also extremely basic compared to Fun Elements, as packaged on iPad!


----------



## revol68 (Jul 22, 2011)

Dear fucking Christ the fan boy bollocks of Apple muppets knows no bounds, they can even bring themselves to defend this faddish shite. The iPad is a fucking glorified toy there is no justifying its compulsory use within a school. 

I have never seen such blind loyalty to any corporation before, it's fucking pathetic. Frankly schools should be running Linux based stuff on cheap but functional laptops/netbooks if they want to go down that root, with a few windows and MAC desktops for use for specific software common within various industries.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 22, 2011)

revol68 said:


> Dear fucking Christ the fan boy bollocks of Apple muppets knows no bounds, they can even bring themselves to defend this faddish shite. The iPad is a fucking glorified toy there is no justifying its compulsory use within a school.
> 
> I have never seen such blind loyalty to any corporation before, it's fucking pathetic. Frankly schools should be running Linux based stuff on cheap but functional laptops/netbooks if they want to go down that root, with a few windows and MAC desktops for use for specific software common within various industries.



I don't see anyone justifying it's _compulsory_ use?

As far as i'm concerned £399 is a good price for an iPad and what it offers.

The editor has had the same amount of money to spend on a hardware device with suitable software and so far he's failed to provide anything noteworthy. (IMHO)

Lugging around a hefty slab of plastic that doesn't replace any of the course books currently in the school bag, can't take pictures, can't shoot HD video, will be lucky to run a half decent game, etc... but hey, it's got plastic keys you can press, and a copy of Photoshop Elements...

So, using that same price point, what in the Linux world can you provide that can cover the above?

And just to clarify, I'm all for getting stuck into Linux boxes for those who are into programming etc, but I think you'll find not everybody is.

It seems peoples hatred for Apple gets in the way of an acknowledgement of how useful some of their kit can be.


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2011)

revol68 said:


> Dear fucking Christ the fan boy bollocks of Apple muppets knows no bounds, they can even bring themselves to defend this faddish shite. The iPad is a fucking glorified toy there is no justifying its compulsory use within a school.
> 
> I have never seen such blind loyalty to any corporation before, it's fucking pathetic. Frankly schools should be running Linux based stuff on cheap but functional laptops/netbooks if they want to go down that root, with a few windows and MAC desktops for use for specific software common within various industries.


 
Tablets make a whole lot of sense in an educational setting, once a couple of conditions are met. Durability and content being the main ones that spring to mind.

Cost issues can easily be offset if enough content that would previously have been available in book form, is available on the tablets at a knockdown price. This could take a long time to happen, I just don't know, I haven't been paying attention to this side of things.

Certainly I will reiterate my previous point about cost, that I don't think people realise how much money schools have long burnt on IT and other stuff for that matter. A lot of companies have made a lot of money in the name of educating our children, and I hope for the day when technology puts significant pressure on this, rather than merely adding to it.

If the time comes, I don't think the iPad will necessarily be the best choice at all, but its pretty unclear at this stage.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> I don't see anyone justifying it's _compulsory_ use?


 
+1  

I'm also pretty impressed by the reaction to things I'm not sure anyone has said


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> It seems peoples hatred for Apple gets in the way of an acknowledgement of how useful some of their kit can be.


And right there is where you've lost all credibility with that idiotic comment. 

Did the 91 per cent of the 4689 respondents who believed it was an "unnecessary expense for parents to pay for an iPad for their child's use at school" all "hate Apple" too?

This debate has never been about whether the iPad is any good or not - in fact, I've gone out of my way to say that it would be an excellent choice for education - but it's been about whether it represents the best value for money for cash-strapped parents, and whether forcing such a big expense on parents is reasonable. 

Like the vast majority of (ahem) 'Apple haters' polled, I don't believe it does and I'm of the opinion that cheaper alternatives would be just as productive.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> I don't see anyone justifying it's _compulsory_ use?


Err...


Kid_Eternity said:


> *Nothing wrong with it being compulsory* but parents shouldn't have to pay, they already paid for their child's education through taxes.



I'm still waiting for him to explain exactly who would be footing this not-inconsiderable sum of money if he think the parents "shouldn't have to pay".


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> And right there is where you've lost all credibility with that idiotic comment.
> 
> Did the 91 per cent of the 4689 respondents who believed it was an "unnecessary expense for parents to pay for an iPad for their child's use at school" all "hate Apple" too?
> 
> ...


 

What the fuck are you babbling on about?

I'm referring to comments made _in this thread_, the whole compulsory argument is a totally different kettle of fish, and one that I don't agree with, so I would appreciate it if you didn't keep conflating the two.

You've been bandying around the *vastly overpriced™* comment all through this thread and have, to my mind at least, failed to offer _anything_ that would be as easy/enjoyable/creative for a kid to use in the same bracket as an entry level iPad.

You would rather see young Timmy trudge to school carrying a large & heavy bag of books, along with a fuck off big plastic box on his back (twice a bloody day) to save a couple of bob.

And all the little fella can do is write out reports in a word processing app and play around with a stripped down version of Photoshop, and to add insult to injury, he can't even take his own pictures with the thing, unless you stump up for an expensive add on.

And I won't even mention video.

what a fucking tight arse.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> You've been bandying around the *vastly overpriced™* comment all through this thread ...



I haven't been 'bandying around' that phrase at all, In fact, I_ haven't used the phrase once_. You've just made that up, which is rather annoying and dishonest. 

This is what I've actually been arguing all along: 


editor said:


> There's no denying that iPads are lovely things, but there is no way on earth you can justify the cost for parents (or indeed, taxpayers).





editor said:


> I've no doubt that the iPad2 is a great device for education and perhaps it is a "whole new way of interacting with data", but that's not the point.
> It's all about whether it represents _the best possible value_ and whether children should be compelled to buy them.





editor said:


> This debate has never been about whether the iPad is any good or not - in fact, I've gone out of my way to say that it would be an excellent choice for education - but it's been about whether it represents the best value for money for cash-strapped parents, and whether forcing such a big expense on parents is reasonable.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> And all the little fella can do is write out reports in a word processing app and play around with a stripped down version of Photoshop, and to add insult to injury, he can't even take his own pictures with the thing, unless you stump up for an expensive add on.


 
Jimmy™, fwiw.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> I haven't been 'bandying around' that phrase at all, In fact, I_ haven't used the phrase once_. You've just made that up, which is rather annoying and dishonest.
> 
> This is what I've actually been arguing all along:


 
I think, perhaps, it's a different (and not entirely overlapping) set of values that are being bested.

Direct comparisons between netbooks and iPads are never going to really hold, because they're not really doing (or intended to do) the same set of things.

Depending on what a given user (or organisation) wants - and what their priorities are - either might represent 'best value.'

But, yes, there are difficulties in laying down a mandate that (e.g.) every student's parents must buy one. Particularly given it isn't the cheapest option, and presuming some form of mobile computer is deemed necessary at all (is that really the case in all schools these days? Jesus.)

Having said that, I'd be interested in seeing how the school is structuring their work and / or what they're intending to do to make iPads 'best value,' in their eyes. Working from this presumably-flawed premise, how are they proceeding? What are they doing with it, that is - in their eyes - making it worthwhile?

wrt productivity, is there any way of knowing / making categorical assertions (in a school environment) if it hasn't been tested out? Potentially an interesting experiment. Misguided, almost certainly, but interesting.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Having said that, I'd be interested in seeing how the school is structuring their work and / or what they're intending to do to make iPads 'best value,' in their eyes. Working from this presumably-flawed premise, how are they proceeding? What are they doing with it, that is - in their eyes - making it worthwhile?


I think we're all waiting to see what magical abilities the iPad2 has that means parents should be _compelled_ to fork out a minimum of £400 (plus keyboard, for starters) over whatever laptop the kids probably already own (or a buying a capable cheap netbook).


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2011)

No, that would just be you.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> I haven't been 'bandying around' that phrase at all, In fact, I_ haven't used the phrase once_. You've just made that up, which is rather annoying and dishonest.



err...



editor said:


> No matter how you try and spin it, the iPad remains *vastly* more expensive.



although I'm sure you'll be along to tell me there's a world of difference between _overpriced_ and _more expensive_, but of course i'm referring to your ridiculous use of the word _vastly_ in the first place to differentiate between the iPad and your big plastic brick - although your offering is without a doubt vastly larger, and vastly heavier.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> I think we're all waiting to see what magical abilities the iPad2 has that means parents should be _compelled_ to fork out a minimum of £400 (plus keyboard, for starters) over whatever laptop the kids probably already own (or a buying a capable cheap netbook).


 
Doesn't that depend on how the curriculum is structured? 

Presuming that netbooks and iPads offer different things - and I think that's pretty unarguable - isn't there the potential for a curriculum to be substantially geared around the strengths of the platform? 

The school linked to earlier - the Christian one in Scotland - is now advertising their 'iPadgeant,' a first annual school play / event centred around iPads (and the mobility thereof).

tbh, it sounds abso-fucking-lutely ghastly. Even if the kids are allowed to wear their 'trip uniform' on the day. Woo.

But they're clearly looking to make some use of the strengths of the platform, in a way that they - presumably - couldn't with a netbook.

And if they can negotiate a 15% educational discount (I'd be amazed if they couldn't), would £340 sound more appealing?


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> No, that would just be you.


Silly me thought that this was what the debate over the last three pages had been all about!

Anyway, the reader/parent comments at the end of the original article make interesting reading: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/5304084/Schools-iPad-requirement-divisive

Examples:


> Utterly stupid idea. Sure tablets are light weight and have good battery life but they're not optimal for most tasks, particularly those in the classroom. For school children I can see them as being little more than a glorified document reader.
> 
> Even university students favour pen and paper over the laptops, notebooks and tablets which almost everyone has.





> Who will pay to replace an iPad that the school bully has pinched from another child and smashed? The Bully’s parents? – yea right! Who will replace the iPad that has been kicked around the play ground. Who will replace an iPad that a child has placed down and come back 2 minutes later and it has gone? We are not talking about a text book – this is an item that costs HUNDREDS of dollars!
> 
> Want an iPad? Just hang out in front of Orewa College and mug a kid on his way home! I am 45 years old and even I hesitate at times on the train to work about pulling my iPad out! Sending my teenager off to school with an iPad in his bag? - NO WAY.





> Technology is the way of the future, but an iPad is a luxury, not a necessity. It's the big toy of the moment, give it 6 months and something new will come out. Stick to the computers at schools. If kids have them at home, all well and good. If they don't, make computers at school easily accessible, or encourage them to go to the public library. Students don't need toys to play with, they need tools to learn with.
> 
> And how exactly is the school going to monitor how the kids use their iPads in the classroom. It's bad enough trying to get them to stop texting in class.





> That is crazy. The iPad is just a brand of Tablet. It is IT that doesn't do much that is useful anyway. It is an entertainment gadget. It certainly does nothing that a much cheaper NetBook computer can't do. The school clearly believes Apple's marketing. Tablets may be a way of the future, but there is no evidence outside of Apple advertisements that iPads are the way of the future. If the school policy makers were more IT savvy and less gullible, the kids and their families would be better off, both in terms of money saved and technology.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Doesn't that depend on how the curriculum is structured?
> 
> Presuming that netbooks and iPads offer different things - and I think that's pretty unarguable - isn't there the potential for a curriculum to be substantially geared around the strengths of the platform?


You think a school curriculum should be structured around a _specific brand of computer?_


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> although I'm sure you'll be along to tell me there's a world of difference between _overpriced_ and _more expensive_, but of course i'm referring to your ridiculous use of the word _vastly_ in the first place to differentiate between the iPad and your big plastic brick - although your offering is without a doubt vastly larger, and vastly heavier.


Jesus Christ, just own up to making a mistake for fuck's sake instead of digging yourself into a deeper hole with this slimy, dishonest  bullshit.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> Anyway, the reader/parent comments at the end of the original article make interesting reading: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/5304084/Schools-iPad-requirement-divisive
> 
> Examples:



Are netbooks currently mandatory anywhere? Or any form of mobile computing?

It looks like the only iPad-specific points there are that it's more stealable, and that it adds nothing over other tablets. All of the others could (presumably) be applied equally to netbooks; including the thievability, only to a slightly lesser extent.

All of them are valid points, but not a single one of them is based on any awareness - so far as I can see - of how the school is looking to use the iPad within the curriculum. And how they might be looking to embed it within the curriculum.

The answer might STILL be 'it's utterly fucked up as an idea'; ok, so it's utterly fucked up as an idea.

Moving beyond that moral outrage at a powerfully sketchy policy, what are they going to do with it? How is it going to play out in practice? How are they intending to MAKE it best value, in their specific context?

Those - IMO - remain interesting questions. Even if it's accepted that this is a seriously sketchy / seriously fucked up idea.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> Jesus Christ, just own up to making a mistake for fuck's sake instead of digging yourself into a deeper hole with this slimy, dishonest  bullshit.



you're a fucking loon mate.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> You think a school curriculum should be structured around a _specific brand of computer?_


 
Don't think I've offered any 'shoulds' anywhere, have I?

e2a: and tbh, I'm not convinced that school curriculums 'should' be structured around computers at all


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Are netbooks currently mandatory anywhere? Or any form of mobile computing?


It's not unusual for schools to ask kids to bring in laptops/netbooks, but I don't think it's very common in the UK for them to specify just one model that is only available from one manufacturer. 



sunnysidedown said:


> you're a fucking loon mate.


You posted up a whopping lie, got caught out (the text is there for all to see) and now you've taken to throwing around personal abuse in response.  It's not your finest hour, to be honest.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> It's not unusual for schools to ask kids to bring in laptops/netbooks


 
Well, then. That - IMO - is a more worthy target for ire.

The iPad-specific argument sounds more like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 22, 2011)

What a steaming load of tedious shite.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 22, 2011)

editor said:


> You posted up a whopping lie, got caught out (the text is there for all to see) and now you've taken to throwing around personal abuse in response.  It's not your finest hour, to be honest.



erm, this is what I said:




			
				me said:
			
		

> You've been bandying around the *vastly overpriced™* comment all through this thread ...



To which you replied:




			
				editor said:
			
		

> I haven't been 'bandying around' that phrase at all, In fact, I haven't used the phrase once. You've just made that up, which is rather annoying and dishonest.



You a couple of posts up:




			
				editor said:
			
		

> No matter how you try and spin it, the iPad remains *vastly* more expensive.



You even bolded the word *vastly* yourself, really putting the point across.

And then you come out with this:




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Jesus Christ, just own up to making a mistake for fuck's sake instead of digging yourself into a deeper hole with this slimy, dishonest bullshit.



Quality stuff squire 

anyway that's me out of here, knock yourself out with the rest of the thread sunshine.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> erm, this is what I said:


You seem to have a problem comprehending basic English. 

To make the observation that one item is 'vastly more expensive' than another does not equate to holding an opinion that the more expensive item is "vastly _overpriced_". 

You also claimed I had been "bandying about" that phrase throughout this thread, when it fact _I haven't even used it once_. Your arguments are very confused.



sunnysidedown said:


> erm, this is what I said:
> anyway that's me out of here...


Probably the best thing for you, all things considered.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

Have you two considered going on Jeremy Kyle?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Have you two considered going on Jeremy Kyle?


 
Lol!


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2011)

Jeremy wouldn't get a word in edgeways


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Jeremy wouldn't get a word in edgeways


 
I think there's an app for that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Jeremy wouldn't get a word in edgeways


 
Aint that the truth. Can't see we'll ever have an iPad thread on here without this shit...


----------



## revol68 (Jul 22, 2011)

No demands, smash Apple everyday!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2011)

revol68 said:


> No demands, smash Apple everyday!


 
No gods, no masters, no apple? Heh your anarchist forefathers must be so proud...


----------



## revol68 (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't think there has been a smugger company in the history of capitalism than Apple.

What McDonald's was to the 80's and 90's Apple is to contemporary culture.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2011)

Thats how the current conflict will end, Google and Apple will merge and the new entity will be branded as Smuggle.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 23, 2011)

revol68 said:


> I don't think there has been a smugger company in the history of capitalism than Apple.
> 
> What McDonald's was to the 80's and 90's Apple is to contemporary culture.


 
Big Mac and fries?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 23, 2011)

revol68 said:


> I don't think there has been a smugger company in the history of capitalism than Apple.
> 
> What McDonald's was to the 80's and 90's Apple is to contemporary culture.


 
Lol at the way you talk about a company as a person!

It never ceases to amuse that those who 'love' Apple are just the flip side of the coin as those who 'hate' Apple. Both have been skilfully manipulated by corporate marketing.


----------



## magneze (Jul 25, 2011)

iPaditis spreads to a Chinese University


> "I hope every student would go to purchase an iPad, because iPad represents the most modern thinking, and my students must like that. If you don't have money to buy one, then you go to earn money. If you cannot earn merely $4000 Yuan (around $615) within the holiday, then you are not suited to this course, and you are not necessary [sic] to be my student."


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/25/chinese_university/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 25, 2011)

magneze said:


> iPaditis spreads to a Chinese University


He comes across as a bit of a looney.


----------



## magneze (Jul 25, 2011)

Yup


----------



## Kanda (Jul 27, 2011)

Nice.. http://www.alesis.com/iodock



> The iO Dock (patent pending) is the first device that enables anyone with an iPad or iPad 2 to create, produce, and perform music with virtually any pro audio gear or instruments. The iO Dock is a universal docking station specifically designed for the iPad and iPad 2, and it gives musicians, recording engineers, and music producers the connectivity they need to create and perform with iPad. Connect all your pro audio gear to virtually any app in the App Store with the iO Dock.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Nice.. http://www.alesis.com/iodock


It's a curious looking thing and I'd never relax having all that glass on display at some of the gigs I play (!),  but I could see that being really useful.


----------



## elbows (Jul 27, 2011)

Yeah thats not bad, covers a lot. Main downsides are that it is plastic and the video out is only composite. There are a fair number of other audio & midi interfaces available for iPads these days as well, and the CoreMIDI over wifi is fine for situations where a little latency doesn't matter all that much (such as messing around at home/studio).


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2011)

The main problem for me is that in a professional gig environment, you really need physical sliders for mixing.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 27, 2011)

editor said:


> The main problem for me is that in a professional gig environment, you really need physical sliders for mixing.


 
You don't NEED physical sliders, you're just used to them. Even some of the higher end Pioneer mixers have touch screen mix capabilities these days.

(E2A: Then I realise you said gig environment.. oops)


----------



## Crispy (Jul 27, 2011)

Yeah, in the dark, under pressure, physical control is very useful.
But in a studio or at home it's not such a big deal


----------



## electroplated (Jul 27, 2011)

The Lemur was highly rated and used by plenty pro musicians long before the ipad came along and stole its thunder on account of it's much lower price - that was 100% touchscreen.... http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2011)

electroplated said:


> The Lemur was highly rated and used by plenty pro musicians long before the ipad came along and stole its thunder on account of it's much lower price - that was 100% touchscreen.... http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php


You won't find many 100% touchscreen mixing desks being used in pro gig environments.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 27, 2011)

Not a gig environment but cool: http://www.wmstudios.tv/index-1.html


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Not a gig environment but cool: http://www.wmstudios.tv/index-1.html


Very cool indeed. But there's still a physical keyboard, mouse and controller hooked up to that mighty impressive rig.


----------



## electroplated (Jul 27, 2011)

editor said:


> You won't find many 100% touchscreen mixing desks being used in pro gig environments.


 
No, I mean the Lemur was a 100% touchscreen device, which was a key part of the live gig setup for the likes of daft punk...

(the 2 central black screens in this shot):







Obviously they had lots of buttons and faders to play with too...


----------



## elbows (Jul 27, 2011)

electroplated said:


> No, I mean the Lemur was a 100% touchscreen device, which was a key part of the live gig setup for the likes of daft punk...


 
It never went mainstream though. Part of that can be put down to price and the somewhat daunting prospect of making your own complex controller setups for use with the Lemur, but there is another reason.

Lots of people like tactile feedback from their controllers. So plenty of people probably aren't interested at all, and some will like to incorporate both. Personally I think touch screens have some strengths, especially if you want to control a lot of different parameters at once and want them clearly labelled, arranged in a customised way. Plenty of potential for weird controllers that would be hard to achieve physically, such as ones that interact with each other or use physics. Also good for using as one or more x-y pad, for step sequencing, drawing envelopes, and for experimenting with new sorts of keyboard arrangements.

Most music & control apps for the iPad still have a little bit more road to travel before I will declare that this stuff has truly reached a pro level, but its getting there quite rapidly and such apps have been the main thing that has provided me with value for money from my iPad purchase so far. For example I got official Yamaha iPad version of the Tenori-On for a small fraction of the price the hardware would have cost. It would be a bit more fun if it was tactile like the real thing, but at this price Im not complaining.


----------



## electroplated (Jul 28, 2011)

Totally agree /\

Just got the Tenori-On app - had no idea that existed - it's great innit


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 28, 2011)

electroplated said:


> Totally agree /\
> 
> Just got the Tenori-On app - had no idea that existed - it's great innit



Man, all the music apps make me really want want an iPad


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 2, 2011)

British Library offers e-classics app for iPad. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14376722


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 2, 2011)

Very nice.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 4, 2011)

I had a thought the other day. Remember when people thought iPad was a stupid name for a product. Sounded like a sanitary product etc.

Funny how that has vanished and iPad is now a household name associated with technology. Apple can rewrite anything somehow.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 4, 2011)

See also: Wii


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2011)

See also: Facebook, Google, Spotify etc etc


----------



## Crispy (Aug 4, 2011)

Yeah, but none of those sound like something you do in the bathroom


----------



## elbows (Aug 4, 2011)

Gromit said:


> I had a thought the other day. Remember when people thought iPad was a stupid name for a product. Sounded like a sanitary product etc.
> 
> Funny how that has vanished and iPad is now a household name associated with technology. Apple can rewrite anything somehow.


 
Fun isn't it? I remember the reaction the iPad launch announcement induced in this forum, lots of negativity. 'its just a large iPod touch', to which at the time I would likely have responded 'yeah, and whats wrong with that, its great!'

I'd like to see an iPad 'killer' competitor or two. At most we have a lot of shit alternatives, and a small handful of devices that can probably stand their own in a battle, especially if more tablet-specific apps come out for the alternative platforms. So the next year will be interesting, especially if Apple do launch some sort of 'pro' iPad at some point in the months ahead.


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 4, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, but none of those sound like something you do in the bathroom


With an iPad, you can do _all_ of them in the bathroom.



Or at least, I think you can. I don't know what a spotify is.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 4, 2011)

editor said:


> See also: Facebook, Google, Spotify etc etc


 
Facebook was a term already used in colleges. He just expanded it to the general population when he opened the platform to not just colleges.

Google was along the line of "What is one of them? Made up word".

Spotify *shrugs*

None of those seem to have the 'ridiculously sounds like a pre-exiting embaressing something or other' stigma the iPad had.

Good call on the Wii that man!


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 4, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Facebook was a term already used in colleges. He just expanded it to the general population when he opened the platform to not just colleges.
> 
> Google was along the line of "What is one of them? Made up word".
> 
> ...


The  name Google based on the number a googol.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 4, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> The  name Google based on the number a googol.


 
Or Googleplex.

How many people knew that before google. I do now. I didn't then.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Facebook was a term already used in colleges. He just expanded it to the general population when he opened the platform to not just colleges.
> 
> Google was along the line of "What is one of them? Made up word".
> 
> ...


 
Heh yeah Wii wins this one I reckon.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 4, 2011)

The whole thing about the iPad's name was always very tenuous anyway. "Ha ha, iPad, that sounds like sanitary pad!" Er, no it doesn't. I didn't (and still don't) think it's a desperately good name, but it's not intrinsically funny.


----------



## elbows (Aug 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The whole thing about the iPad's name was always very tenuous anyway. "Ha ha, iPad, that sounds like sanitary pad!" Er, no it doesn't. I didn't (and still don't) think it's a desperately good name, but it's not intrinsically funny.


 
I got the idea that this meant more in the USA, perhaps due to Maxi Pad brand being part of the language?


----------



## Gromit (Aug 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The whole thing about the iPad's name was always very tenuous anyway. "Ha ha, iPad, that sounds like sanitary pad!" Er, no it doesn't. I didn't (and still don't) think it's a desperately good name, but it's not intrinsically funny.


 


elbows said:


> I got the idea that this meant more in the USA, perhaps due to Maxi Pad brand being part of the language?



Indeed.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/187966/um_apple_about_that_ipad_name.html



> iTampon on Twitter
> 
> A mere two hours after Jobs wrapped up his iPad demo, the term "iTampon" was trending higher than "Apple's iPad," on Twitter. The jokes were, uh, flowing.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2011)

Read more and more restaurants are using iPads as menus, interesting idea, you pick your prefs, it gets wired to the kitchen, no more waiting around for a waiter to take your orders.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Read more and more restaurants are using iPads as menus, interesting idea, you pick your prefs, it gets wired to the kitchen, no more waiting around for a waiter to take your orders.


The trouble with that system is what if the customers needs to ask something about an item on the menu? Maybe they've got a food allergy, or they want a particular ingredient left out because they dislike it.


----------



## editor (Aug 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Read more and more restaurants are using iPads as menus, interesting idea, you pick your prefs, it gets wired to the kitchen, no more waiting around for a waiter to take your orders.


That sounds as much fun as the DIY check outs as supermarkets. Loads of restaurants already use wireless ordering systems, but I'd rather have a waiter/waitress talk to me in the process.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> The trouble with that system is what if the customers needs to ask something about an item on the menu? Maybe they've got a food allergy, or they want a particular ingredient left out because they dislike it.



Well I doubt they'll be no one around at all. I'd have no problem with this system, in fact there's plenty of times it would have made the eating experience better to have fast service! Really hope we see this taken up in London eateries.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well I doubt they'll be no one around at all. I'd have no problem with this system, in fact there's plenty of times it would have made the eating experience better to have fast service! Really hope we see this taken up in London eateries.


Which means you have to call someone over (possibly having to wait while they deal with someone else) anyway.  More often than not someone's going to want ask something about their order.  You might as well have a traditional waiter/waitress there.

Anyway, if you have a night out at nice restaurant most people want to be served by a person, not a machine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Which means you have to call someone over (possibly having to wait while they deal with someone else) anyway. More often than not someone's going to want ask something about their order. You might as well have a traditional waiter/waitress there.
> 
> Anyway, if you have a night out at nice restaurant most people want to be served by a person, not a machine.



I don't envisage it being that complicated. I eat out regularly and the situation you describe is a rarity, I've never been to a restaurant and seen tables making all kinds of off menu requests either. You'd still be served by a person, your food wouldn't be brought by robots! This would just make things more convenient.


----------



## strung out (Aug 8, 2011)

using an ipad in a restaurant would be unbelievably shit. they still have waiters taking orders etc in star trek btw, so that's as good a reason as any for thinking it's a shit idea that'll never work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 8, 2011)

strung out said:


> using an ipad in a restaurant would be unbelievably shit. they still have waiters taking orders etc in star trek btw, so that's as good a reason as any for thinking it's a shit idea that'll never work.



Haha Star Trek is shit, no argument wins on using ST!


----------



## strung out (Aug 8, 2011)

still got waiters in hitchhiker's guide, babylon 5, doctor who etc too...


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Haha Star Trek is the shit


Fixed.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 10, 2011)

Amazon have launched a Kindle web-based reader to get around Apple's rules.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14473893


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2011)

This is what I've always said people will end up doing, and _should_ do, instead of using apps, to deliver content.


----------



## magneze (Aug 10, 2011)

Yep, and it could be the major thing that releases Apple's stranglehold of the tablet market. If everyone goes webapp then an Android tablet's as good as a webOS tablet, which is as good as an iPad..


----------



## editor (Aug 10, 2011)

Mr Moneybags Jobs won't be best pleased.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 10, 2011)

web apps are only useful for a subset of things


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 10, 2011)

Yep.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2011)

They are however perfectly adequate for newspapers and magazines. Particularly when you compare them to the non-web apps which seem to offer very little more.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 10, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They are however perfectly adequate for newspapers and magazines. Particularly when you compare them to the non-web apps which seem to offer very little more.


What sort of magazine and newspaper apps?  There are some really good ones out there that are more than just scanned images of the paper version, which make full use of the iPad.


----------



## editor (Aug 11, 2011)

Walmart have just got in on the 30% Apple tax-shirking fun.



> Instead of launching an iPad app for its video-streaming service Vudu, Walmart has launched an iPad-optimized website — bypassing the 30% cut in revenue that Apple takes from all in-app purchases.
> 
> Customers can now browse, rent or watch a movie by launching the Vudu site on their iPads’ browsers. From the site, they can set up an app-style shortcut button on their homescreens for easy access.
> 
> http://mashable.com/2011/08/11/walmart-vudu-ipad


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

I hope Apple don't get any crazy ideas about crippling web apps in some way. I don't think this would be easy for a number of reasons, but I don't put anything past them when it comes to aggressive commercial policies.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 11, 2011)

editor said:


> Walmart have just got in on the 30% Apple tax-shirking fun.



Is it a tax? Seems more like a cost than a tax...


----------



## editor (Aug 11, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is it a tax? Seems more like a cost than a tax...


Yes. It's a tax.


> In an effort to shake Apple’s App store dominance, Amazon and Walmart today separately launched Web apps--not iOS apps--that will escape Apple’s 30 percent sales tax by not appearing in Apple’s app store.
> 
> The move puts the new apps for the Kindle Cloud Reader and Walmart’s Vudu on their own, away from participation in the App Store revenue-sharing model.
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2376...r_joins_uprising_against_apple_app_store.html





> Death by 30% cut: Apple app tax must change
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/18/the_payment_problem/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 11, 2011)

It's not a tax by my understanding of the term.



> To *tax* (from the Latin _taxo_; "I estimate") is to impose a financial charge or other levy upon a *taxpayer* (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay is punishable by law.



Calling it a tax is like being like those Tory driver types that bang on about the BBC license fee being a tax.


----------



## editor (Aug 11, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's not a tax by my understanding of the term.


It's an imposed cost.


> Power to the Publisher? Anger Grows over *Apple App Tax*
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4162942...wer-publisher-anger-grows-over-apple-app-tax/





> NewspaperDirect Offers a Strategy to Publishers Wrestling with *Apple Tax*
> Only a year ago, Apple’s iPad was touted as a publisher’s dream: a portable device that delivered an intimate and immersive reading experience. Today, Apple formally announced a *30 percent tax* on all content sales via iTunes, requiring all publishers to provide in-app subscription plans that are the same (or better) than their subscription plans outside of the app.
> http://blog.pressdisplay.com/tag/tax/





> Apple *'greed' tax* spreads beyond music, movies, magazines
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/21/apple_rejects_readability/


Etc etc etc etczzzzz.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 11, 2011)

Since Apple is neither a government nor a local council it is not a tax.  It is simply a charge for services rendered.  Whether the amount charged is fair or not is another matter.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 11, 2011)

editor said:


> That sounds as much fun as the DIY check outs as supermarkets. Loads of restaurants already use wireless ordering systems, but I'd rather have a waiter/waitress talk to me in the process.



Nothing wrong with DIY checkouts at supermarkets...they should be used to get through more people faster, leaving the manned checkouts for those with lots of shopping. Of course what its actually meant is a reduction in staff in many places, leading increased customer frustration.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Since Apple is neither a government nor a local council it is not a tax. It is simply a charge for services rendered. Whether the amount charged is fair or not is another matter.



Yep, calling it a tax is idiotic.


----------



## strung out (Aug 12, 2011)

it's quite similar to a tax tbf


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's quite similar to a tax tbf



In that Apple uses the money to provide civil defence, a health and education system? Yeah you're right very similar...


----------



## strung out (Aug 12, 2011)

bore off


----------



## Cid (Aug 13, 2011)

Are ebay's fees taxes too then? It is a ridiculous amount to charge mind you, money for old rope on Apple's part, good to see companies working round it. Although it would be nice if Amazon used that to stop charging ridiculous amounts for ebooks.


----------



## strung out (Aug 13, 2011)

of course they're not exactly like taxes, but they are *similar* to a tax in that they are a duty imposed on goods passing through apple's jurisdiction. only a complete moron would assume that saying "they're similar to a tax" is the same as saying "apple are a government seeking to levy taxes in order to pay for the provision of civil defense, healthcare and education", but still, people like to pick holes semantically rather than actually addressing the content of people's criticism.


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 13, 2011)

At this juncture, can I remind peoplez that bananas are _actually _a herb?


----------



## Winot (Aug 13, 2011)

And tomatoes are not vegetables. They are actually a type of fish.


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 13, 2011)

Steve Jobs is actually a lizard.


----------



## elbows (Aug 13, 2011)

Interesting live photo collage thing


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 13, 2011)

I often hear the Apps Store and iTunes make just a little more than their running costs and Apple makes its money through hardware sales (like the iPad), how true is that?


----------



## elbows (Aug 13, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I often hear the Apps Store and iTunes make just a little more than their running costs and Apple makes its money through hardware sales (like the iPad), how true is that?



I can't say exactly how true it is, since I don't know all of the costs & overheads of such things. But can certainly say that in terms of total revenue before costs, music & app revenue is dwarfed by hardware revenue. For example see their Q3 results summary here: http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/fy11q3datasum.pdf


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> I can't say exactly how true it is, since I don't know all of the costs & overheads of such things. But can certainly say that in terms of total revenue before costs, music & app revenue is dwarfed by hardware revenue. For example see their Q3 results summary here: http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/fy11q3datasum.pdf


I'm speaking out of blind ignorance here, but wouldn't most of Apple's turnover on the app store, etc, be raw profit? Unless that's their figures before passing on developers' (etc) cut. Whereas hardware inevitably includes the cost of producing the hardware...

Having said that, I wonder how many people spend £400 on iPad apps as well as £400 on an iPad!

Reckon I've _certainly_ spent (a fair bit) >£200 on apps / TV series / music since getting it, mind  But I'm not sure I'm a typical user.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 17, 2011)

It costs a lot to maintain the App Store, and vet all the apps, and apps are fairly mostly cheap hence not much revenue for Apple. All the figures I've seen say that at best they make an slight profit at best from App Store sales vs App Store costs (though it's hard to say, obviously).

On the other hand, a working  App Store with quality software is absolutely key to why people buy iOS devices, and even if it was completely loss-making they'd still keep it going.


----------



## g force (Aug 18, 2011)

Got around to buying "Game for Cats" and yes, my cat loves it. Meant I got 30 mins to read a book rather than being a cat slave for once!


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 18, 2011)

g force said:


> Got around to buying "Game for Cats" and yes, my cat loves it. Meant I got 30 mins to read a book rather than being a cat slave for once!


Is that the one where you get things on your iPad screen, encouraging your cat to slash at it repeatedly with their claws?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2011)

Heh


----------



## magneze (Aug 18, 2011)

Erm, that third one at the bottom looks well dodgy, like someone cut and pasted some screens onto a pic of an iPad.


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2011)

Funny but quite misleading, since most of the before iPad ones appear either ancient or ruggedised.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2011)

Indeed, thought the thread needed a lighthearted boost...


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2011)

In that case


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2011)

You've gone too far maaaan, TOO FARR!!!


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2011)

Don't worry, I have the antidote.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2011)




----------



## ovaltina (Aug 22, 2011)

Ok so I've been given an iPad 2 as a very generous gift. How do I make the most of it then? It's a lovely bit of kit alright. The battery goes on forever, everything is snappy and slick as fuck, and the screen is bright and easy enough to type on. But still... Coming from a year of using android I can't help noticing how locked down it is, and hops I've got to use iTunes To do certain things, which is already causing me headaches. And some of the software design is just naff, faux leather? Wtf? But, if anybody could recommend some killer software and freebies (I'm not used to paying for apps!) that would be marvellous.

Posted from my thighpad


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2011)

Get Flipboard.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 22, 2011)

Airvideo is worth the money, if you want to stream movies to it over your home network.
BBC iPlayer
TVcatchup (go to the website then make it a home screen icon)
iCab is a good replacement browser if you want grown up features like tabs, downloads, private mode etc.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 22, 2011)

iBooks and/or Kindle
Wikipanion
IMDb
The Guardian Eye Witness
BBC News
Sky News
BBC iPlayer
4oD
ITV Player
Star Walk
Epic Citadel
The Waste Land
Skyfire or Puffin (browser that allow you to view Flash content; videos only for the former)
Any of the various newspaper or magazine apps (my personal favourites are the Times and Sunday Times, National Geograpic Magazine app, and The New Yorker App). There's also Zinio which enables you to subcribe to hundreds of different magazines. I think the dedicated magazine apps tend to make more use of the iPad though


----------



## elbows (Aug 22, 2011)

Free 3D sculpting program called 123D Sculpt that came out recently is enjoyable, something therapeutic about virtual clay.

http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/123d-sculpt/id446119510?mt=8

If only it allowed the 3d models themselves to be exported, but hey can't have everything.


----------



## ovaltina (Aug 23, 2011)

Thanks for all the suggestions, am on the train trying a few of them out. Flipboard is fantastic, what a lovely way to display the Internet! I loaded my Facebook profile onto it and it was so much better than the standard layout.
Will download more stuff when im at home on wifi. 
It's a shame so many of the apps are paid for but I suppose ill get used to it. I'm just used to free but ad-supported android stuff. I have to admit though, iPad is quickly winning me over. I Wish it had swiftkey.


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> Free 3D sculpting program called 123D Sculpt that came out recently is enjoyable, something therapeutic about virtual clay.
> 
> http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/123d-sculpt/id446119510?mt=8
> 
> If only it allowed the 3d models themselves to be exported, but hey can't have everything.


I got frustrated with that when it went all fractal at big gradients.

I want big gradients


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 23, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions, am on the train trying a few of them out. Flipboard is fantastic, what a lovely way to display the Internet! I loaded my Facebook profile onto it and it was so much better than the standard layout.
> Will download more stuff when im at home on wifi.
> It's a shame so many of the apps are paid for but I suppose ill get used to it. I'm just used to free but ad-supported android stuff. I have to admit though, iPad is quickly winning me over. I Wish it had swiftkey.


I was really, really hesitant about paid apps when I got my first iPod touch. But have probably gotten through the best part of £2-500 on apps now (2-3yrs on?) Quite a lot of that has been, um... temporary enjoyment, soon forgotten. A lot of it has been apps that were thunderingly worthwhile, IMO. Though, perhaps, on occasions I would've benefited from targeting my interest a little more focusedly.

IMO, if you're ever going to use it for anything substantial, a hardware keyboard and e.g. Pages are absolutely fantastic. Incredible value, for what they are (well, for what Pages is. Not so sure about the hardware / bluetooth keyboard ). Particularly if you also have any form of Apple laptop / desktop running Pages.

Also, if you want to do anything specific - like tinkering with music - then apps like the Korg IMS-20 or Nanostudio (an iPod app, which works pretty well upscaled; and which is kinda like Garageband for dance, and doesn't use stepping (unlike Rebirth / Korg)) ARE paid, and are not cheap. But they're utterly phenomenal.

There's also been a 69p release recently, Rhythm, which looks as if it has quite a lot of the stepped apps' functionality (particularly ReBirth). Maybe not quite so much, but if you were interested in tinkering with music apps, it provides a really good intro.

There's also a C4 news app out, fwiw.
And Photoshop Express for light photo editing.
Photobucket, if you use it (though it seems to have difficulty with landscapes).
AppMiner identifies apps on sale and / or free apps.
Buildings for local architecture.
Dropbox, if you're ever going to use it. Particularly if you're going to use Pages.
Kindle
The British Library app (lots of free, old, scanned books)
'Free Books' (which - I think - is £0.69 or £1.99; but which then gives access to something quite similar to the Kindle free range)
Free Audio Books (as above - taps into / provides a front for a free library, though I think the app costs something up front. Some of the reading is PROPER awful. But some is fantastic.)

And tbh - apart from that, most of what I've got on my full 64gb iPad are games and / or music / films 

If you are ever at all tempted by games, Gameloft routinely discount all but their most recent 2 or 3 games to £0.69 (standard price £3.99-5.99). Things like Dungeon Hunter 2 are proper landmarks. As is Aralon (never likely to be discounted) and Galaxy on Fire if you ever enjoyed Elite on the BBC Micro. I think Real Racing 2's on sale atm, too. And Speedball 2, Hunters HD, Trenches...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 23, 2011)

Stanza is the reader to get for free books. It's free itself, and has all of the out-of-copyright Project Gutenberg stuff as well as other sources that provide, for instance, out of print 50s pulp or new writing. Pretty much everything else that offers "free books" uses Project Gutenberg copies.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 23, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Stanza is the reader to get for free books. It's free itself, and has all of the out-of-copyright Project Gutenberg stuff as well as other sources that provide, for instance, out of print 50s pulp or new writing. Pretty much everything else that offers "free books" uses Project Gutenberg copies.



The desktop companion app is a bit pants though.

That 123D Sculpt is fantastic btw. I got a similar app a while back, but this is far superior. Much nicer control over the shape. Although, like quoad, I want more resolution! Fiddly detail like ears and eyes ends up a bit jaggy.


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 23, 2011)

If you oversculpt, it goes proper bonkers and can't be put right again.


----------



## ovaltina (Aug 23, 2011)

Blimey, lots to go on there, cheers! I've got a couple of free games so far but would be tempted by the 69p ones. I tried Stanza but couldn't get iTunes to load my, um, existing purchases onto it. The instructions say to go into apps then file sharing, and then add the apps. All good, except the iTunes kept syncing every time I got through the menu, so I gave up in the end. Shame because I want to have a reader with night mode but iBooks doesn't offer that. With the keyboard, Im actually finding typing quite easy, to my surprise. I've still got my thinkpad for any big projects but day to day stuff, like this post, is ok on the ipad keyboard. Thanks again for all the suggestions. D


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 23, 2011)

Apple fans - any idea how true the rumour I heard somewhere about the next version of the iPad not needing to synch to a computer/iTunes is?

Coz that would really be the green light to me getting one


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 23, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Blimey, lots to go on there, cheers! I've got a couple of free games so far but would be tempted by the 69p ones. I tried Stanza but couldn't get iTunes to load my, um, existing purchases onto it. The instructions say to go into apps then file sharing, and then add the apps. All good, except the iTunes kept syncing every time I got through the menu, so I gave up in the end. Shame because I want to have a reader with night mode but iBooks doesn't offer that. With the keyboard, Im actually finding typing quite easy, to my surprise. I've still got my thinkpad for any big projects but day to day stuff, like this post, is ok on the ipad keyboard. Thanks again for all the suggestions. D


Go into the options on iTunes and check the box next to the "Prevent iPods, iPhone and iPads from syncing automatically" (under the "Devices" tab) option.


beesonthewhatnow said:


> Apple fans - any idea how true the rumour I heard somewhere about the next version of the iPad not needing to synch to a computer/iTunes is?
> 
> Coz that would really be the green light to me getting one



Yes, in iOS5. http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html#pcfree


----------



## ovaltina (Aug 23, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Go into the options on iTunes and check the box next to the "Prevent iPods, iPhone and iPads from syncing automatically" (under the "Devices" tab) option.
> 
> 
> Yes, in iOS5. http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/features.html#pcfree


Will give it a go, thanks. Will ios5 be rolled out to the iPad 2 as well? Would be great to forget about using iTunes.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 23, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Will give it a go, thanks. Will ios5 be rolled out to the iPad 2 as well? Would be great to forget about using iTunes.


iOS 5 will be for all ipads and iphones 3GS and up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 23, 2011)

About bloody time too! Wires are SO last decade...


----------



## ovaltina (Aug 23, 2011)

Good stuff


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 23, 2011)

Interesting news...

*United Airlines Hands Out 11,000 iPads To Its*


Delta was the first U.S. airline to deploy the iPad, with 22 devices replacing weighty flight bags for a number of its pilots. Now United Airlines is also taking Apple’s device to the skies, but with a slightly larger roll-out that will see 11,000 of the tablets handed out to all United and Continental pilots.

Just like those used by Delta, United Airlines’ iPads will replace 40-pound flight bags, that typically include paper flight manuals, logbooks and aeronautical charts, with Apple’s 1.5-pound tablet. Pilots began receiving the devices earlier this month, with the roll-out expected to reach all pilots by the end of the year.

Captain Fred Abbott, United’s senior vice president of flight operations, said this is the next generation of flying:

_
“The paperless flight deck represents the next generation of flying. The introduction of iPads ensures our pilots have essential and real-time information at their fingertips at all times throughout the flight.”​_​
Here’s how the iPads will be used by United:

_
Each iPad, which weighs less than 1.5 pounds, will replace approximately 38 pounds of paper operating manuals, navigation charts, reference handbooks, flight checklists, logbooks and weather information in a pilot’s flight bag. A conventional flight bag full of paper materials contains an average of 12,000 sheets of paper per pilot. The green benefits of moving to EFBs are two-fold—it significantly reduces paper use and printing, and, in turn, reduces fuel consumption. The airline projects EFBs will save nearly 16 million sheets of paper a year which is equivalent to more than 1,900 trees not cut down. Saving 326,000 gallons of jet fuel a year reduces greenhouse gas emissions by 3,208 metric tons.​_​


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## mrs quoad (Aug 25, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Blimey, lots to go on there, cheers! I've got a couple of free games so far but would be tempted by the 69p ones.


_Definitely _get AppMiner and check it fairly regularly, then. You should be able to get a whole lot of big Gameloft titles (Asphalt 6 - which is phenomenal on iPad, Dungeon Hunter 2, Backstab, Brothers in Arms, arguably Real golf and - if you're lucky - 9mm, Starfront) for £0.69 if you get the timing right. EA do slightly more stingy sales sometimes, too. Need for Speed is a bit plodding compared to Asphalt, but the two older titles were recently reduced to about £0.69-£1.99. Dead Space, Splinter Cell, Tiger Woods 12 also go on occasional discount, and are pretty nifty. Likewise,EA own ALL the board games. Scrabble, boggle, monopoly, jenga, blah. Beyond the big developers, Hunters ep. 1 wobbles between £0.69 and £2.99 and is excellent for a bit of turn-based strategy (though interest will probably wane after a while).

The main difference between proper £0.69 games and the discounted ones is - IME - the conceit, and lastability. Angry Birds or Little Wing are great, but they've only got one conceit. "Here is what you do. Do it lots of times, in slightly different settings." The more expensive games - like Galaxy on Fire - have proper, long-term campaigns. Yep, they often cost upwards of £5. But - e.g. - with GoF there's an open-universe / open world game with a series of missions you can drop into or out of, as the fancy takes you. And, probably, a good 14-20hrs of mission / play, at least. And the physics and gameplay on Asphalt, for example, are just stunning.

So, yeah. For the most part, you do get what you pay for. Though the occasional big-name-developers' sales (particularly when they've got something new out, which is every other week with GL) do make utterly excellent games available far, far cheaper (if only to push their titles up the rankings - it's not unusual for GL or EA to have 5 of the top 10 spots after a week on sales).

IMO!


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Delta was the first U.S. airline to deploy the iPad, with 22 devices replacing weighty flight bags for a number of its pilots. Now United Airlines is also taking Apple’s device to the skies, but with a slightly larger roll-out that will see 11,000 of the tablets handed out to all United and Continental pilots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope they remember to set them to 'airplane' mode on take-off.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 25, 2011)

123D sculpt is amazing. I did this in two 30 minute train rides


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## mrs quoad (Aug 25, 2011)

What are you going to do with it now?


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## elbows (Aug 25, 2011)

Its going to be the virtual bouncer that keeps pro and anti Apple factions at bay on the forums


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## Crispy (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm making an Orc now


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## mrs quoad (Aug 25, 2011)

Another one?

e2a: tbf, that first chap looks like a middle-management orc, in need of a moontan.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Aug 30, 2011)

Guys, I'm thinking of getting the 16GB non-3G one.

Do any of you guys tether an iPad 2 to the iPhone 4?


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

A synergetic corporate tie in too far perhaps?









> Sky Go has gone and given the common shopping trolley a hi-tech rethink and added an iPad, collision detection and set of speakers.
> The idea is that you can get your Sky Sports fix while out shopping and should something like transfer deadline day tomorrow get too engrossing, be saved from crashing via the collision detection system.
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/41767/sky-go-sainsburys-ipad-trolley


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## elbows (Aug 30, 2011)

I would guess Sainsburys are not taking the idea too seriously, and its just part of Skys push to market Sky Go quite heavily at the moment.


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## editor (Aug 30, 2011)

elbows said:


> I would guess Sainsburys are not taking the idea too seriously, and its just part of Skys push to market Sky Go quite heavily at the moment.


Be great for pickpocketing shoppers transfixed by their iPads as they crash around the store though.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 30, 2011)

Crispy said:


> 123D sculpt is amazing. I did this in two 30 minute train rides
> 
> View attachment 12989



That's pretty fucking cool!


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## Bungle73 (Aug 30, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Guys, I'm thinking of getting the 16GB non-3G one.
> 
> Do any of you guys tether an iPad 2 to the iPhone 4?


I have done, but you have to pay extra for it in some cases. I can do it for free (apart from any relevant data charges of course) however; apparently that's because I bought an unlocked phone. I'm on 3 btw.


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## 100% masahiko (Aug 30, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I have done, but you have to pay extra for it in some cases. I can do it for free (apart from any relevant data charges of course) however; apparently that's because I bought an unlocked phone. I'm on 3 btw.



I'll be on O2 so the same.
Thanks, it's just the iPhone 3GS gets real hot when tethering, I was wondering if it was the same with the iPhone 4.


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## Bungle73 (Aug 30, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> I'll be on O2 so the same.
> Thanks, it's just the iPhone 3GS gets real hot when tethering, I was wondering if it was the same with the iPhone 4.


I've never done it for any length of time.


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## editor (Aug 31, 2011)

The FT has decided to pull its apps from the Apple store in what may - or may not - prove to be a harbinger for the future of their app store:



> The Financial Times has pulled its iPad and iPhone apps from Apple's App Store after losing a battle to keep control of customer data obtained through subscriptions.
> 
> Apple has recently begun to insist that subscriptions to apps that it hosts must go through its own store, giving Apple ownership of valuable data about customers from those transactions, as well as a 30 percent cut of revenues.
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I have done, but you have to pay extra for it in some cases. I can do it for free (apart from any relevant data charges of course) however; apparently that's because I bought an unlocked phone. I'm on 3 btw.



I've never understood why more networks don't offer tethering as part of your data deal...


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## elbows (Aug 31, 2011)

Because traditionally people tend to use more bandwidth when tethering, and if they encouraged it too much then it would bring their already heavily loaded 3G data networks to a standstill. Plus they fancy they can extract more money from people by selling them separate contracts, dongles or whatever.

Now granted the improvements to smartphones and the rise of 3G tablets, along with a decline in low-bandwidth mobile-specific versions of websites, means that people who are not tethering are likely to use more data than before, so I don't know if tethering data usage is still significantly higher compared to phones than it used to be.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2011)

There's money to be made there if they got it right is my point.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 1, 2011)

My local McDonalds have had shit loads of them installed and removed the play area for kids.

Sadly you can't browse urban on them.


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## Gromit (Sep 2, 2011)

A friend was predicting an iPad3 announcement in the Sept Apple speech.

Rumours are that that the sept date was just rumour sites guessing based on previous years. Rumour is that Octber is most likely.

I think his iPad3 guess is miles off considering how many units Foxconn has only just shipped. 20 million units!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 2, 2011)

Bury gives them to its refuse collectors



> Bury council has defended its decision to spend £9,000 on iPads for its fleet of refuse trucks, saying the devices will allow it to provide a real time bin collection service.
> The council has come under severe criticism for purchasing 22 of the touchscreen devices, which retail at around £400 each, just months after unveiling plans to make £12m of cuts to local services.
> But they insisted the products, made by Apple, could produce significant savings by helping to reduce the number of bins missed by trucks and therefore the number of trips made by the vehicles.


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## editor (Sep 4, 2011)

"Has the revolt begun against Apple's iPad app fees?" asks the Guardian. Let's hope so.


> Then, last February, Apple dropped a bombshell.
> 
> It concerned in-app subscriptions. For periodical publications on the iPad, publishers can set the length of a subscription – weekly, monthly, quarterly, annual. Users select a subscription period, then click to order; this then debits the credit card associated with their iTunes account. The bombshell was the announcement that henceforth publishers who sold in-app subscriptions would have to pay Apple 30% of any resulting revenue.
> 
> ...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/sep/04/apple-ipad-apps-subscriptions-revolt


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2011)

Will it be good for the consumer? Will it mean Apple doesn't sell millions of iPads and continue to dominate the tablet market? Two questions that need answering...


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## editor (Sep 4, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Will it be good for the consumer? Will it mean Apple doesn't sell millions of iPads and continue to dominate the tablet market? Two questions that need answering...


The world's richest tech company extracting even more money out of partners is unlikely to be good for consumers.


----------



## elbows (Sep 8, 2011)




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## Scaggs (Sep 11, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Airvideo is worth the money, if you want to stream movies to it over your home network.
> BBC iPlayer
> TVcatchup (go to the website then make it a home screen icon)
> iCab is a good replacement browser if you want grown up features like tabs, downloads, private mode etc.



Thanks for posting that. Airvideo is great! even does subtitles.

(edit) Is there anything that does the same with music?


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> And the ways in which they work, and the extent to which an iPod touch pisses all over an htc desire to an extent that's almost laughable. Well, would be laughable, if I hadn't paid so darned much for that htc contract.



This is like deciding what's best to buy between a Dyson vacuum cleaner and a Soda Stream. You know, like, one sucks in air while the other blows it out. Yeah? One of them is a phone and the other is an MP3 player? And MP3 players don't tend to need a 3G connection so no contract required, yeah? Or did you buy the phone just to listen to music on? Or the Ipod expecting it would send text messages?

Anyway, I think I'm slowly coming round to the idea of destroying purchasing an Ipad 2. Please feel free to talk me out of it.

The reasons are thus:

I bought an Archos 7 believing it would be what the Ipad 2 probably is. The Archos was great for films and a good battery life. But the net on it was terrible. The touch 'sensitive' screen was appalling; where you had to touch was rarely in the same place as the graphic forcing you to play an electronic version of pin the tail on the donkey just to execute a link. My personal record was about 17 seconds. And no 3G capabilities. So I got shot and bought a netbook thinking that would be the answer to my prayers. Again, good for films and a better surfing experience than the Archos; but how boring (like my desktop, but can do _less_) and sloooooooooooooow. It's like having a 386 loaded to capacity with viruses and trying to play Doom whilst chatting away on skype. Without anything loaded. Let's not even discuss the broken Kindles.

So I think the the Ipad 2 is the answer to my prayers. Don't need an Android tablet as already doing the Android thing. Itunes pisses me off though. Avoided it for years but had to start using it recently when bought gf an Ipod for her birthday. It would be easier if I bought music I suppose but I don't. And to punish me I seem to have to do four hours of graft for every gig of music I put on there sorting it out. But it works wonderfully despite the unnecessary effort required in getting music cataloged correctly.

And the Ipad 2 has decent games, yes? Archos was shit in this department and netbooks are too. I guess the only other gripe is memory size (storage). It means I'll have to be more acquainted with Itunes than my faculties will tolerate. But still...

It's brilliant, yes?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

The iPad can't be beat on games, and it's got a strong future app wise given the installed base of owners. Factually speaking as things stand the same can't be said of other tablets on the market.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The iPad can't be beat on games



This is a massive selling point for me. Seamless surfing and video should be a given. But did someone say you can get Tiger Woods golf on it?  Plus I need a new Ereader after having a less than good experience with Kindles. They're not robust enough for northern fingers.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Sounds like the iPad would be ideal for you. The ability to play your iPad games on your TV is a cool little feature I reckon, gaming wise, will see some mileage too.


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## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The iPad can't be beat on games, and it's got a strong future app wise given the installed base of owners. Factually speaking as things stand the same can't be said of other tablets on the market.


Umm, I'm pretty sure that Android tablets have a strong future, albeit one with some catching up to do. They've already got 20 per cent of the market, there's quite a few games already avaialble and some have predicted that the plaform will overtake Apple within three years.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sounds like the iPad would be ideal for you. The ability to play your iPad games on your TV is a cool little feature I reckon, gaming wise, will see some mileage too.



I only want it to 'consume' - something I saw mentioned earlier on in the thread. I spend almost 20 hours a week travelling on public transport.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> Umm, I'm pretty sure that Android tablets have a strong future [...]



I'm sure they do. But what use is that to anyone _right now_...?  

"Oh, I hear Android have a good future. Invest in one of those, what, what, what?"


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## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm sure they do. But what use is that to anyone _right now_...?


There's no doubting that the iPad provides the super-slickest experience of all (albeit in a 'walled garden' format), but just a thought: if you're going to be using it mainly for travelling on public transport, maybe you might want to consider something a bit smaller and less conspicuous than a 10.1" screen?


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> There's no doubting that the iPad provides the super-slickest experience of all (albeit in a 'walled garden' format), but just a thought: if you're going to be using it mainly for travelling on public transport, maybe you might want to consider something a bit smaller and less conspicuous than a 10.1" screen?



Like, something with a neat 7" screen that doesn't have any games? 

Bear in mind I'm partly talking trains that have tables and stuff. Although I do mean the tube too.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I only want it to 'consume' - something I saw mentioned earlier on in the thread. I spend almost 20 hours a week travelling on public transport.



Yep, iPad it is, I see plenty of people with them on trains, tubes and even busses these days. I wouldn't waste my money on anything else tablet wise for at least another 12 months. Then we *might* see some real competition to it making headway...


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, iPad it is, I see plenty of people with them on trains, tubes and even busses these days. I wouldn't waste my money on anything else tablet wise for at least another 12 months. Then we *might* see some real competition to it making headway...



I already have a netbook and I don't find it interesting at all. I don't think any games are designed to work on them (unless you scour about for downloadable old ones) and they're just really slow for my liking. Was a mistake buying one really. The wifi on the train only occasionally works and when it does is pretty bad. So I figured if I was going to invest in a dongle for the netbook, I may as well just get the 3G Ipad 2 which also has games specifically designed for it. The only down side is storage capabilities but it isn't difficult to remove and add files. I do prefer drag and drop over pissing around with Itunes though. I've avoided apple products up to this point for that reason but this is too tempting.


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## elbows (Sep 12, 2011)

The iPad 2 is the device you seek, just be prepared to spend some money on apps as it sounds very much like you will get into this side of things.

The forthcoming wifi-syncing with iTunes will make things seem slightly less clunky, and you may be able to bypass iTunes altogether for certain kinds of files. By this I mean that some apps that can read/show/play files have their own ability to read files over the network or internet in a few different ways, so iTunes not required. But in many cases you will likely still end up using iTunes Im afraid.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> This is like deciding what's best to buy between a Dyson vacuum cleaner and a Soda Stream. You know, like, one sucks in air while the other blows it out. Yeah? One of them is a phone and the other is an MP3 player? And MP3 players don't tend to need a 3G connection so no contract required, yeah? Or did you buy the phone just to listen to music on? Or the Ipod expecting it would send text messages?


Have you heard of 'apps'? They're quite new, you might've missed them 

e2a: though wrt games... oddly enough considering the above post, I'm not sure that the iPad beats the iPod touch. Games tend to cost a lot more, and _rarely_ add much in the way of playability or value over and above what iPod / iPhone versions offer.

It's still pretty nifty for games, but tbh if I'm pissing around, I'm far more likely to be gaming on my iPod than my iPad.

Given you're looking for all the other stuff too, though, sounds like an iPad'd definitely fit the bill.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Have you heard of 'apps'? They're quite new, you might've missed them



I might be with you on this actually. I have zero experience with Apple Apps... BUT... for all the talk of Android being open source a lot of what is available is pretty cack. I think the sum total of apps I downloaded all revolved around various forms of public transport: tube maps and times, train times, Bus times etc. Which while useful, generally only entertain you for as long as it takes to find the info you need. I suppose I could have had fun checking train times to Skegness without having any intention of going there.

The only good thing I found game wise with Android really was the emulator stuff. But, as the games hadn't been designed for touch screen technology they were pretty difficult to enjoy. Loved playing Rapscallion and Valhalla again though with the Desire Z's keyboard.

As for the Ipod touch, it not having 3G capabilities was always a down side. Still, you could always utilise the Desire's ability to become a server for such inferior devices. 

I do worry how much of the meagre 16 gig memory games like Tiger Woods' Golf will chew up on the Ipad, mind.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> e2a: though wrt games... oddly enough considering the above post, I'm not sure that the iPad beats the iPod touch. Games tend to cost a lot more, and _rarely_ add much in the way of playability or value over and above what iPod / iPhone versions offer.


Depends on the sort of games really, some are naturally much better on larger screen even if there isn't more value than that. I may be biased because I like pinball games and I've never really been much into gaming on really small screens.


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## magneze (Sep 12, 2011)

Have you held one? Definitely worth trying if you're using it on public transport, the iPad 2 is still pretty hefty even though it's lighter than the first gen. Apart from the price, it's the weight that puts me off more than anything.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> The only down side is storage capabilities but it isn't difficult to remove and add files. I do prefer drag and drop over pissing around with Itunes though. I've avoided apple products up to this point for that reason but this is too tempting.



I have plugged my ipad into itunes once in the last 2 months. No need for it unless you're putting new movies on all the time.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Like, something with a neat 7" screen that doesn't have any games?


There's actually rather a lot of games available for Android tablets now. I know this because I have one downstairs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I already have a netbook and I don't find it interesting at all. I don't think any games are designed to work on them (unless you scour about for downloadable old ones) and they're just really slow for my liking. Was a mistake buying one really. The wifi on the train only occasionally works and when it does is pretty bad. So I figured if I was going to invest in a dongle for the netbook, I may as well just get the 3G Ipad 2 which also has games specifically designed for it. The only down side is storage capabilities but it isn't difficult to remove and add files. I do prefer drag and drop over pissing around with Itunes though. I've avoided apple products up to this point for that reason but this is too tempting.



Depends on what files you mean i guess, you can easily install the Dropbox app and use files from that.





elbows said:


> The iPad 2 is the device you seek, just be prepared to spend some money on apps as it sounds very much like you will get into this side of things.
> 
> The forthcoming wifi-syncing with iTunes will make things seem slightly less clunky, and you may be able to bypass iTunes altogether for certain kinds of files. By this I mean that some apps that can read/show/play files have their own ability to read files over the network or internet in a few different ways, so iTunes not required. But in many cases you will likely still end up using iTunes Im afraid.



Yup app buying can rack up but if movies is what you want ripping or torrenting will save you a lot.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2011)

The soon to launch Amazon device looks like it could be a contender particuallly if they can price around the £250 mark.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I might be with you on this actually. I have zero experience with Apple Apps... BUT... for all the talk of Android being open source a lot of what is available is pretty cack.
> 
> ...
> 
> The only good thing I found game wise with Android really was the emulator stuff. But, as the games hadn't been designed for touch screen technology they were pretty difficult to enjoy. Loved playing Rapscallion and Valhalla again though with the Desire Z's keyboard.


I really enjoy a bit of gaming. I went for the htc PARTLY because I needed internet / email / tethering during fieldwork but MOSTLY because everyone was raving on about this incredible phone with the first 1ghz processor, etc.

I thought the 1ghz processor would actually DO something. With apps, like.

But, yeah, my consistent experience of Android games - for the 8 months or so that I occasionally bought them - was dismal. Not a little bit dismal, but stunningly dismal. So dismal that it's hard to reconcile what the fuck is going on with Android marketplace, particularly when my Desire notionally outspecced my 2nd gen iPod touch by a country mile; but performance in most areas was either very very comparable, or else the iPod won hands down. Games, in particular, there just... isn't a comparison.



> As for the Ipod touch, it not having 3G capabilities was always a down side. Still, you could always utilise the Desire's ability to become a server for such inferior devices.


I did  More commonly used it for the iPad, though. Browsing on an iPod is ok, but.... yeah. Not ideal.

Tiger Woods is 443mb, fwiw! Size... does tend to correlate... to some extent... with game quality. There are oddballs like Aralon that seem to deliver far more than the file size might indicate (in comparison with apps like Rainbow 6 (1.06gb), 9mm (1.4gb) or Nova HD (1.2gb). But... it's usually fairly easy to balance things out 

Having said that, I've now got a 32gb iPod touch with 22gb of apps on it. And... christ... I've got 35.3gb of apps on my iPad. I went for 64gb for a reason  tbf, it is in need of a tidy; there's a lot of dross on there. But, still. Ouch. I hadn't looked at that recently...


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2011)

Anyone got any experience of a good network storage & video playing app combo? I fancy being able to access a large archive of stuff I've collected over the last decade+ without needing a computer turned on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> There's actually rather a lot of games available for Android tablets now. I know this because I have one downstairs.



I'd bet they don't compare in the number or levels of quality. The iPad cannot be beat currently as a gaming tablet.





maldwyn said:


> The soon to launch Amazon device looks like it could be a contender particuallly if they can price around the £250 mark.



Yep that sounds nice although it's using a forked version of Android which means it's not guaranteed your usual Android apps will even work on it...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> Depends on the sort of games really, some are naturally much better on larger screen even if there isn't more value than that. I may be biased because I like pinball games and I've never really been much into gaming on really small screens.


Yeah, true. Asphalt 6 looks incredible on the iPad. Absolutely incredible.

On the other hand, some ports completely bork it. And put immovable D pads / buttons somewhere that means the whole thing is nigh-on impossible to hold and move. I think it was Rainbow 6 that I DLed a week or so ago (69p sale) only to find that there're loads of occasions where you have both hands half-way onto the screen so's you can move around, the sensitivity of the gyroscope makes the whole screen unmanageably chaotic, and THEN you've regularly got to let go with one hand or t'other in order to tap a button in the middle of the screen, which is a nightmare to hit because of the lunatic gyroscope 

I'm playing Drawrace2 atm. Lovely distinction between iPad and iPod. On the iPad, it's quite gentle / planned (because of the huge screen size). On the iPod, it's mad, imprecise, and ridiculously fast / edgy. Both work well, and tbh that's a rarity; but a pleasant surprise.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'd bet they don't compare in the number or levels of quality.


There's loads more games available on the iPad and there's no question that it's the best all round gaming device, but _some_ of the Android games are near-identical to their iPad equivalent and so some of those really are just 'as good.'


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep that sounds nice although it's using a forked version of Android which means it's not guaranteed your usual Android apps will even work on it...


If a divice is going to take on the iPad it will need to be sold at a loss to appeal to a mass market and if enough are sold the developers will flock to it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I might be with you on this actually. I have zero experience with Apple Apps... BUT... for all the talk of Android being open source a lot of what is available is pretty cack. I think the sum total of apps I downloaded all revolved around various forms of public transport: tube maps and times, train times, Bus times etc. Which while useful, generally only entertain you for as long as it takes to find the info you need. I suppose I could have had fun checking train times to Skegness without having any intention of going there.
> 
> The only good thing I found game wise with Android really was the emulator stuff. But, as the games hadn't been designed for touch screen technology they were pretty difficult to enjoy. Loved playing Rapscallion and Valhalla again though with the Desire Z's keyboard.
> 
> ...



Sounds like you've made your decision to me!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> If a divice is going to take on the iPad it will need to be sold at a loss to appeal to a mass market and if enough are sold the developers will flock to it.



Oh yeah for sure, I'm not knocking it just making sure the poster is aware of what he's likely to be getting himself into with any purchase he decides to make. I'm not fussed what it is at the end of the day, people should buy what suits them.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Tiger Woods is 443mb, fwiw! Size... does tend to correlate... to some extent... with game quality. There are oddballs like Aralon that seem to deliver far more than the file size might indicate (in comparison with apps like Rainbow 6 (1.06gb), 9mm (1.4gb) or Nova HD (1.2gb). But... it's usually fairly easy to balance things out



Ah, so I shouldn't be expecting even close to Xbox Tiger Woods (or even PSP or DS)?



mrs quoad said:


> Having said that, I've now got a 32gb iPod touch with 22gb of apps on it. And... christ... I've got 35.3gb of apps on my iPad. I went for 64gb for a reason  tbf, it is in need of a tidy; there's a lot of dross on there. But, still. Ouch. I hadn't looked at that recently...



I really ought to get the biggest memory one. I bet it's only the 16 gig one that T-Mobile wants 200 quid plus 25 a month on a 24 month contract though.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sounds like you've made your decision to me!



I have.  Someone needs to talk me out of it. Editor isn't doing a very good job.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I have.  Someone needs to talk me out of it. Editor isn't doing a very good job.


Hey, I'm not trying to talk you out if it, I'm just offering some alternatives to consider. Go for the iPad if that's your thing.

After having a tablet around the house for the last few months, I've certainly made my mind up about what I like and how useful they'd be for me. Funny thing is, because my mobile has got such a big screen, I hardly ever use the tablet now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I have.  Someone needs to talk me out of it. Editor isn't doing a very good job.



LOL! That's because his obvious bias gets in the way of him making a compelling argument.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! That's because his obvious bias gets in the way of him making a compelling argument.


Yes. Just look at that incredible anti-iPad bias!



			
				editor said:
			
		

> There's no doubting that the iPad provides the super-slickest experience of all...






			
				editor said:
			
		

> There's loads more games available on the iPad and there's no question that it's the best all round gaming device,






			
				editor said:
			
		

> Hey, I'm not trying to talk you out if it, I'm just offering some alternatives to consider. Go for the iPad if that's your thing.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> Hey, I'm not trying to talk you out if it, I'm just offering some alternatives to consider. Go for the iPad if that's your thing.
> 
> After having a tablet around the house for the last few months, I've certainly made my mind up about what I like and how useful they'd be for me. Funny thing is, because my mobile has got such a big screen, I hardly ever use the tablet now.



One of the reasons I'm considering getting a tablet now is I fucked my mobile a few months back.  Iphone/Ipod never appealed to me. Mainly the whole Itunes thing annoyed me. And using it now for my GF, it does annoy me. I don't like how it forces you to use that software exclusively in its clunky manner it wants you to do things. I miss my Archos and all it couldn't do. Now, an improved Archos that also lets you play Tiger Woods is something I could suffer Itunes for.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> After having a tablet around the house for the last few months, I've certainly made my mind up about what I like and how useful they'd be for me. Funny thing is, because my mobile has got such a big screen, I hardly ever use the tablet now.



Do you reckon evolving apps could change your opinion of how useful a tablet would be for you?

Because frankly, if it wasn't for a handful of apps that have really made the iPad a joy for me, I'd be thinking that I'd wasted by money on a tablet. The other stuff that its good for is not stuff I do quite enough of, or rather I spend too long in front of other types of computer to need very often.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> There's loads more games available on the iPad and there's no question that it's the best all round gaming device, but _some_ of the Android games are near-identical to their iPad equivalent and so some of those really are just 'as good.'


If Guerrilla Bob, MiniSquadron and Dungeon Defender are the best three Android games... then, yeah, they may be as good as the versions on iPad. But I'm not sure there's any sane or rational individual out there who'd begin to claim that those were in the top 10, 50, or perhaps 100 iPad games.

The only one that comes close (of those 3) is Dungeon Defender. tbf, it's a nice twist on tower defence, and it's got some pretty impressive graphics. But it never really made a mark on the app store, and I don't think I bothered playing more than 2 or 3 rounds on it. It certainly isn't on my iPad (or iPod) any more.

Guerrilla Bob is a completely plotless, nothing-but-luck, vacuous-as-you-like shoot-em-up. It must be at least a year or two old by now. Think I deleted that on the morning of downloading it (59p? Free?). Minisquadron isn't awful, but it's (IIRC) something like a 50mb 2d aerial dogfight. There's no great complexity, there aren't many levels, and it certainly isn't a flagship of any kind.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Ah, so I shouldn't be expecting even close to Xbox Tiger Woods (or even PSP or DS)?


Rly? I'd be surprised if it wasn't quite close to the DS version. Then again, tbf, I've got fuck all idea what a DS is like, so I may be talking out of my arse there.

There aren't many (any?) iPad games that stretch over 1gb. You can still get phenomenal, deep, open-world, complex RPGs running at half of that, though (Aralon (407mb) / Galaxy on Fire 2 (uhhh 305mb?), for example).


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Rly? I'd be surprised if it wasn't quite close to the DS version. Then again, tbf, I've got fuck all idea what a DS is like, so I may be talking out of my arse there.



I've just had bad experiences with mobile games and worried this carried through to tablets too. Watching it reviewed on youtube though suggests it isn't overly shit. If you can cope with the guy's voice...


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> Do you reckon evolving apps could change your opinion of how useful a tablet would be for you?
> 
> Because frankly, if it wasn't for a handful of apps that have really made the iPad a joy for me, I'd be thinking that I'd wasted by money on a tablet. The other stuff that its good for is not stuff I do quite enough of, or rather I spend too long in front of other types of computer to need very often.


I like having a tablet around the house, but I could never justify spending much money on one. The zillions of apps on my phone do just about everything I need and I feel more comfortable using a smaller gadget when I'm out and about.

The only kind of killer apps I could see making a tablet a 'must buy' for me would be things that would made them far more versatile tools - like being able to use one as a proper sketch pad with a stylus or maybe be able to load up photos straight from my camera for editing and uploading.

I'm really not keen on typing on screen either, so if I've got a journalist job on, I'd take a light laptop.


mrs quoad said:


> If Guerrilla Bob, MiniSquadron and Dungeon Defender are the best three Android games... then, yeah, they may be as good as the versions on iPad.


That was indeed the claim I made. There are some very good games available on the Android platform - certainly enough to keep me happy - but as I said earlier, there's no question that the iPad is the best all round gaming device.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Geektastic!







http://www.bitrebels.com/technology/retro-atari-arcade-joystick-for-the-ipad-2/


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## editor (Sep 12, 2011)

Looks well tacky, tbh.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

I don't think it's supposed to be of ornamental value.

Christ, you're acting like a jilted lover or something... 

Bitch bitch snipe snipe.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 12, 2011)

This one looks better (don't know if it's available in the UK though)






http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/retro-gaming/e762/

Of course you could just use the app by itself.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> This one looks better (don't know if it's available in the UK though)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I want that!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Geektastic!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



SO cool!!!  Heh saw this recently and was like WTF! But also


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't think it's supposed to be of ornamental value.
> 
> Christ, you're acting like a jilted lover or something...
> 
> Bitch bitch snipe snipe.



The Ed's only happy when Apple or their products are getting slagged off. He can't bear it when his beloved Google aren't getting any love.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> (don't know if it's available in the UK though)



Available on Amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ION-iCade-A...4NH6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315867053&sr=8-1


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## Citizen66 (Sep 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The Ed's only happy when Apple or their products are getting slagged off. He can't bear it when his beloved Google aren't getting any love.



It's a terrible affliction. I mean, I'm an Android Fanboi, but they have fuck all that compares to this at the moment!


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## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2011)

editor said:


> That was indeed the claim I made.


And this (including the second sentence) was the claim I made:



mrs quoad said:


> If Guerrilla Bob, MiniSquadron and Dungeon Defender are the best three Android games... then, yeah, they may be as good as the versions on iPad. But I'm not sure there's any sane or rational individual out there who'd begin to claim that those were in the top 10, 50, or perhaps 100 iPad games.


Waitrose and Asda probably both sell Birds Eye Frozen Peas (do they?) but if I was after some top notch peas, a few baby carrots, and something posh and organic to impress some lass for a first date, I still probably wouldn't head for Asda.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 13, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> but if I was after some top notch peas, a few baby carrots, and something posh and organic to impress some lass for a first date, I still probably wouldn't head for Asda.



Slap on enough gravy and she wouldn't know the difference.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The Ed's only happy when Apple or their products are getting slagged off. He can't bear it when his beloved Google aren't getting any love.


Please stop this. NOW.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> And this (including the second sentence) was the claim I made:


FYI, I didn't claim that they were the best games available on Android and I've repeatedly stated that iPad is the best platform for gamers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 13, 2011)

editor said:


> Please stop this. NOW.



Jesus. He's joshing. Have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit or something.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Jesus. He's joshing. Have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit or something.


It's been going on across multiple threads and now multiple forums for some time now, so the 'joke' has long since worn very, very thin. I've asked him politely to stop several times.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I've just had bad experiences with mobile games and worried this carried through to tablets too. Watching it reviewed on youtube though suggests it isn't overly shit. If you can cope with the guy's voice...



Don't know how recent that is, but there's been a _major _update in the last week or so. The world and his brother was bitching about pretty much everything, so a tonne of game mechanics / processes / leveling up (etc) have been radically altered. SO if that review's more than a week (or two) old, then things've probably improved since then.

If you really, really want an idea of iPad gaming at its best, then (IMO) have a look at:

Racing: Real Racing 2; Asphalt 6; (and Need for Speed on the iPod, though it's damnably slow on the iPad); Uber Racer
RPGs: Aralon (thunderingly impressive, independent); Infinity Blade (one-dimensional after a while, but STUNNING graphics); Dungeon Hunter 2 (ridiculous numbers of items / leveling potential; Final Fantasy 3 (though tbf it's overpriced for iPad, at £10, compared to other games; and isn't massively better. DS port, IMU)
FPS: Dead Space; 9mm; Rainbow 6 (finding the last one a bit awkward, mind).
'Space and stuff': Galaxy on Fire 2; Warpgate (tbh I'm a bit less convinced by Warpgate but haven't really given it a chance)
Strategy: Sid Meier's Pirates; Civilization (hmm, bit of a one-trick pony, apparently a direct DS port); War of Eustrath (sub-standard graphics, but MASSIVE campaign and a complete bastard to complete); Hunters ep.1; Virtual City; Crimson Steam Pirates (free atm)
Sport: Tiger Woods 12; Real Golf 2011; Madden NFL (probably 2011, 2012 looks like it's getting shite reviews); NFL 2011 (one's produced by Gameloft, the other by EA; both are dirt cheap in the UK - often 69p - and have solid aspects of gameplay); Speedball
Time wasters: Tilt to Live; DrawRace 2; World of Goo; Pocket RPG; Infinity Field; Gwars:Touch; Sentinel; iBomber; Backbreaker 2; Death Rally; Grand Theft Auto (Chinatown Wars).....
A whole shedload of those (Gameloft games) are routinely discounted to 69p to bump them to the top of the charts. EA games likewise; though sometimes they'll go for £1.49 instead. And a number of them are free, or have free 'lite' taster versions.

If you're seriously worried about the possibilities of gaming on an iPad, Youtube a few of the games listed above. There are some utterly awesome options out there, and they're only VERY VERY rarely priced at more than £4.99. In fact, I think Galaxy on Fire, Civilization and... uh... NFL 2012 (which I haven't listed) are the only ones I might've included that'd cost more than £5 atm. Oh, possibly War of Eustrath (as an Indie, though that's been on sale recently too). And... I'd be surprised... if someone who thought one of those titles looked interesting didn't get a damned good £5 of value out of the game.

IMO - if you're remotely tempted by the prospect - it's also well worth DLing a (relatively expensive) synth like the Korg IMS-20. Or DLing NanoStudio (loads more options and doesn't work with steps, but feels less... physical).


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Don't know how recent that is, but there's been a _major _update in the last week or so. The world and his brother was bitching about pretty much everything, so a tonne of game mechanics / processes / leveling up (etc) have been radically altered. SO if that review's more than a week (or two) old, then things've probably improved since then..


I can see you've put a lot of effort into that post and it would be good to share it with more people - would you fancy putting it on wirefresh?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 13, 2011)

editor said:


> It's been going on across multiple threads and now multiple forums for some time now, so the 'joke' has long since worn very, very thin. I've asked him politely to stop several times.



Fair dos. I wasn't aware of history. Does seem a minor thing to be irritated about though. Technological rivalry is just patter.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

editor said:


> FYI, I didn't claim that they were the best games available on Android and I've repeatedly stated that iPad is the best platform for gamers.


Yeah, apols, I did notice your comment wrt the iPad. The site you linked to DID describe them as the 'top 3' games on Android I just found the comparison a bit odd, IYSWIM.

Insofar as tetris (for example) would probably be very similar across multiple platforms. But... it's a bit hard to say what that means, or how significant it is, without putting it in the context of what else the platform offers. Saying 'there are similar games' or 'there are games that've been ported between the two platforms and which are probably equally good' isn't - IMO - of itself a particularly illuminating statement.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

editor said:


> I can see you've put a lot of effort into that post and it would be good to share it with more people - would you fancy putting it on wirefresh?


That's pretty much off the top of my head (and following a very brief scan of my iPad), ed!

You're more than welcome to use anything I've posted, mind.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Fair dos. I wasn't aware of history. Does seem a minor thing to be irritated about though. Technological rivalry is just patter.


It's like the wacky kid who keeps popping up with the same joke. Amusing for a bit and then it just gets very tedious. So I've asked him very politely to stop.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

btw, apparently the Atari boxes started out as an April fools mock-up. But the reaction was so enthusiastic that they were put into production


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Yeah, apols, I did notice your comment wrt the iPad. The site you linked to DID describe them as the 'top 3' games on Android I just found the comparison a bit odd, IYSWIM.


OK, let me try again. There's currently lots more games available for the iPad. There's also more high quality games available for the iPad, *but* some of the games on the Android tablet are also of a very high quality indeed, and equal their iPad equivalents. There's also some very good Android-only games.



So, although there are less games for the Android platform, anyone buying an Android tablet can still enjoy a wide variety of excellent, high quality games. That said, anyone buying a tablet with gaming a primary reason, then I would recommend the iPad.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 13, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Don't know how recent that is, but there's been a _major _update in the last week or so. The world and his brother was bitching about pretty much everything, so a tonne of game mechanics / processes / leveling up (etc) have been radically altered. SO if that review's more than a week (or two) old, then things've probably improved since then.
> 
> If you really, really want an idea of iPad gaming at its best, then (IMO) have a look at: [...]



Hey, cheers for the long response. I'll check them all out.



mrs quoad said:


> IMO - if you're remotely tempted by the prospect - it's also well worth DLing a (relatively expensive) synth like the Korg IMS-20. Or DLing NanoStudio (loads more options and doesn't work with steps, but feels less... physical).



Ooooh. Is the latter like an all in one; like Cubase/Logic with a few synths thrown in? Would seriously love that kind of capability on a tablet although storage space would rapidly become an issue if it's sample heavy or records rather than sequences things.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

I have NO idea whatsoever what cubase and logic are, so apologies if I explain in my own stunted terms...

I'm aware of two pretty mainstream step-based dance music programmes. ReBirth and the Korg IMS-20. Of those, ReBirth has a _really _narrow tonal range. Like, if you want to do something a bit twiddly or acid-housey then you're bang on. If you want to do ANYTHING else with your notes and / or get a bit of roughage and / or use more than 3 octaves (!) then you're fucked, basically. It's pretty good for drum patterns, though. The IMS-20... I fucking love. It has a proper 'playing with hardware' feel to it, and the whole thing is set up as I BELIEVE a Korg IMS-20 (hardware) would've been. You can connect inputs and outputs and play with SO many variables it's obscene. It's really limited by how much it can remember (something like 16 patterns?) AND only has 1xdrums... set... of (IIRC) 6 stepped, programmable drum spaces / tracks at any one time. In addition to the 1 synth programme. And whatever you choose to play on Kaos pads / a keyboard.

The IMS-20 is just awesome for tinkering, and making noises with, though. And both the IMS-20 and ReBirth are exportable, in some form. Though I've never exported, so wouldn't know 

Uh, Nanostudio is (unfortunately) hampered by being iPod / iPhone native. The 'iPad' version is just an upscaled / 2x blown-up screen. Which - tbh - is ok. If not as beautiful as a native app.

An iPad version's apparently been in development for a year or so now.

HOWEVER... Nanostudio isn't stepped. It's like garageband for dance music. There are SO many intricacies that - tbh - I've been scared off playing with it in any great depth because the possibilities are just too damned limitless. I find myself playing with ONE drum beat (from 4,000 that - like a dickhead - I DLed for free) and trying to get the base of a bar RIGHT goddamit and then never do diddly squat else. There are chuffing gidgets for nuancing every aspect of every sound everywhere, and (IIRC) 3x16 drum or sample banks, and (IIRC) you can boost it up to something like 8 or 16 tracks recorded at once, if your RAM will sustain it.

There's a FREE desktop / laptop version of nanostudio here: http://www.blipinteractive.co.uk/download.php

Though you can't multitouch, and tbh it loses quite a lot of its charm on a tiny desktop window.

Here is someone being a bit sick with nanostudio (on an iPod): 

(The keys would be bigger on an iPad, but otherwise the same...)


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

And here's the korg being pissed about on: 

(By the sounds of it, he's basically using one of the demo tracks to illustrate some of the IMS potential / tinkering, though )


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> That's pretty much off the top of my head (and following a very brief scan of my iPad), ed!
> 
> You're more than welcome to use anything I've posted, mind.


Cheers! I'll fluff it up a bit and slap it on to wirefresh. What credit would you like?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

Mrs Quoad would do nicely, ty, ed


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2011)

Cheers. I've got an absolutely brilliant *video* piece coming up from Piers Gibbon on wirefresh tomorrow too!


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 13, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> And here's the korg being pissed about on:
> 
> (By the sounds of it, he's basically using one of the demo tracks to illustrate some of the IMS potential / tinkering, though )






How much do they cost?


----------



## Structaural (Sep 13, 2011)

I love Nanostudio, been using it for a about a year now. When he brings out the iPad version I may have to finally get one.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 13, 2011)

If you jailbreak your iPad you can install something called RetinaPad. This will use the iPhone 4 graphics instead of doubling pixels - you end up with an image about a 3rd bigger but very crisp.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2011)

Structaural said:


> If you jailbreak your iPad you can install something called RetinaPad. This will use the iPhone 4 graphics instead of doubling pixels - you end up with an image about a 3rd bigger but very crisp.



That's nice, but it's no replacement for an interface designed for the screen size. Nanostudio will benefit greatly from that.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 13, 2011)

Well of course. But I know a lot of Nanostudio ipad owners are preferring that to the doubling of pixel look.

Blip's only working on the iPad version now so it should be available this year (probably late December  It's only one guy doing it all, quite amazing really.

(No Android version because google still haven't sorted out the lag...)


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2011)

Ive got rebirth, and have great fun with it, but I dont have a clue what im doing. I just like the fact I can have it running and it will just play acid beats for me, then i can have a twiddle with it, then go away and leave it randomly doing stuff...... But yeah its not a complete tune authoring system.

I've got Looptastic aswell which is great fun, plug it into some speakers at glade on my iphone and had a little sesh, then turned round and realised there were about 20 people bopping looking over my shoulder and wanting to know what the programme was...... If you could get really shit hot loops for it it would be soooo much better.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> How much do they cost?


The prices are probably the steepest I've paid for any app. Korg is CURRENTLY at £22.99, but I bought it at half-price (and before Apple's price hike, so IIRC it came in at about £10-11) and any time they bring out a new app there'll be another similar sale. I very much expect. (They also have the Electribe, which I've never played with and don't own, so couldn't comment on... looks quite a bit simpler than the IMS-20).

ReBirth is £10.49

Nanostudio is £10.49 (crikey! Pretty sure it was £6 or £7 when I got it...)

sim's got a really good point wrt rebirth. It's a lot more... friendly... than Korg, in some ways. I chuffing love the infinite tinkering possibilities of Korg, but if you want to (basically) put together a functional 16-step track, are ok with being VERY limited to 3 octaves of acid-type beats (with some VERY basic filtering / tweaking), and a pretty limited repertoire of drums, then it's far easier to put something together. Korg's IMS-20 is great for endless tinkering with miniscule differences between an almost infinite array of sounds, and has a far wider range n all (somewhere between 5 and 7 octaves, but I can't remember offhand).


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2011)

There's also Rhythm Studio @ £1.49. I haven't played with it much (and IIRC got it for £0.69) but it LOOKS as if it gives a reasonable portion of Rebirth's functionality with a slightly different layout.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm not bothered about 'friendly'. Synth emulators aren't supposed to be friendly. They're supposed to be cauldrons of discovery at affordable prices (As in, more attainable than the real thing).


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> If you really, really want an idea of iPad gaming at its best, then (IMO) have a look at:
> 
> Racing: Real Racing 2; Asphalt 6; (and Need for Speed on the iPod, though it's damnably slow on the iPad); Uber Racer
> RPGs: Aralon (thunderingly impressive, independent); Infinity Blade (one-dimensional after a while, but STUNNING graphics); Dungeon Hunter 2 (ridiculous numbers of items / leveling potential; Final Fantasy 3 (though tbf it's overpriced for iPad, at £10, compared to other games; and isn't massively better. DS port, IMU)
> ...


^^^
JUST seen that Asphalt 6 is currently free (advertised as 'limited time only'). If there's anyone who's vaguely considering an iPad atm, and / or already owns one, and has even the remotest interest in gaming, I'd BLATANTLY recommend DLing it NOW! It's a bit of a no-brainer. IMO.

e2a: and Sid Meier's Pirates is currently £1.49


----------



## sim667 (Sep 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> sim's got a really good point wrt rebirth. It's a lot more... friendly... than Korg, in some ways. I chuffing love the infinite tinkering possibilities of Korg, but if you want to (basically) put together a functional 16-step track, are ok with being VERY limited to 3 octaves of acid-type beats (with some VERY basic filtering / tweaking), and a pretty limited repertoire of drums, then it's far easier to put something together. Korg's IMS-20 is great for endless tinkering with miniscule differences between an almost infinite array of sounds, and has a far wider range n all (somewhere between 5 and 7 octaves, but I can't remember offhand).



Is the korg a similar thing to rebirth? i.e. a digital version of an old piece of music hardware? Rebirth is simply a roland tb-303, tb-808 and a tb-909 in digital form. My main reason for downloading it as they were all hardware pretty instrumental in programming some of the early dance I like, and i wanted to play. But considering a hardware 303 is about £1k on its own, rebirth was the obvious choice for me (i also had it free when i had jailbroken so had tried it out before buying). I have tbh tho, i dont really understand what to do with it. I just know I can press stuff and it will make noise, and in the middle of a field at 4am people appreciate some acid noise.

I've been looking at getting a controller for dj software on my mac, looking at either buying a cheapy hardware one, or using a control template on my ipad..... I dont think the ipad will quite feel right though.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 16, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Is the korg a similar thing to rebirth? i.e. a digital version of an old piece of music hardware?


"Yes" 

It suffers slightly in the layering dept (not sure what else to call it) - there's, basically, 1 synth and 6 drum tracks, each of which can ONLY set the pattern for 1 (infinitely tinkerable) drum sound. Whilst ReBirth has... what? 8x2 or 10x2 drum tracks?

It has a keyboard and kaos pads that can be played independently (and, I think, over the top of the programmed synth - don't quote me on that, though).

And the sound of the synth / drums (and the in-play tweaking) is pretty much incomparable to ReBirth, though. You could - I can - spend an afternoon endlessly tinkering with the sound of the synth, and the curious impact of various knobs and buttons, gates and parameters, and connections between 'valves' / inputs and outputs.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 16, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I've been looking at getting a controller for dj software on my mac, looking at either buying a cheapy hardware one, or using a control template on my ipad..... I dont think the ipad will quite feel right though.



It doesn't - I've tried. I've had some good fun with DJay on the ipad, and can mix fairly competently with it, but physical controls are always better in terms of feedback and working blind.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 16, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> "Yes"
> 
> It suffers slightly in the layering dept (not sure what else to call it) - there's, basically, 1 synth and 6 drum tracks, each of which can ONLY set the pattern for 1 (infinitely tinkerable) drum sound. Whilst ReBirth has... what? 8x2 or 10x2 drum tracks?
> 
> ...



I might try and have a little play with it..... £22 is quite a big price tag for an app though


----------



## sim667 (Sep 16, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It doesn't - I've tried. I've had some good fun with DJay on the ipad, and can mix fairly competently with it, but physical controls are always better in terms of feedback and working blind.



Yeah thats what im thinking, I mean i cant dj well or anything, but there's a piece of cheapy kit call a numark mixtrack pro im thinking about getting for traktor pro 2 on me mac.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 16, 2011)

I also have DJAY on the ipad...... cant get it at all, the bpms are all read wrong hence they never sync and i cant beatmatch by ear yet


----------



## Crispy (Sep 16, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I also have DJAY on the ipad...... cant get it at all, the bpms are all read wrong hence they never sync and i cant beatmatch by ear yet


What sort of music are you trying to mix? Anything other than 4/4 dance music fails the beat detection IMO.

You can tap the BPM of the playing track, though. Hold on the BPM indicator for the options.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 16, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I might try and have a little play with it..... £22 is quite a big price tag for an app though


i) buy a £25 iTunes gift card from Asda (£19 atm). That means it'll be costing £16.72
ii) wait for a sale. When I got Korg it was half-price (£11, IIRC). With an Asda / iTunes voucher, that'd be £8.36

wrt DJay, haven't tried it, but I've got Cue Play and iTouch DJ 2 (not the most recent).

Cue Play is ace; allows you to manually jiggle the beat detection (with a visual / graphic display of the music) to something like 0.01bpm increments. And to adjust where the bpm counting starts.

Having said that, I mostly use those progs to pitch up hour-long mixes at the gym (rather than mixing). Can't abide hard house / hard dance unless it's 155>160bpm at least.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm seriously inclined to believe the Asda iTunes vouchers are a complete no-brainer for anyone who ever buys anything off of iTunes atm


----------



## sim667 (Sep 16, 2011)

I might have a look at cue play.....

are the itunes vouchers available from asda online?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 16, 2011)

Not that I can find :s But tbh I'm not finding the Asda website the most negotiable in the world.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 16, 2011)

Hmmm..... if i got past a asda ill pop in.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2011)

Btw, game loft 69p iPad sale ATM. Backstab (excellent), NFL 11 (worth it IMO), dungeon hunter 2 (stonking rpg), splinter cell (less convincing) all worth a punt. IMO.

E2a: autocorrect said stinking, reedited to the original!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2011)

Crispy said:


> What sort of music are you trying to mix? Anything other than 4/4 dance music fails the beat detection IMO.
> 
> You can tap the BPM of the playing track, though. Hold on the BPM indicator for the options.



SOrry never saw this

Its drumstep and dubstep im having problems with, it always reads dubstep at 70 (half speed) and drumstep about 130 (should be 180).....

like you say though 4/4 tunes are fine, my bassline collection is all ok....... it wouldnt be a problem if it would read the bpm in the id3 tags which are set by traktor instead of re-calculating them


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## chintz (Sep 22, 2011)

Some EA games 70 % off this weekend titles like scrabble, monopoly etc.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 22, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Rebirth is simply a roland tb-303, tb-808 and a tb-909 in digital form. My main reason for downloading it as they were all hardware pretty instrumental in programming some of the early dance I like, and i wanted to play. But considering a hardware 303 is about £1k on its own, rebirth was the obvious choice for me (i also had it free when i had jailbroken so had tried it out before buying). I have tbh tho, i dont really understand what to do with it. I just know I can press stuff and it will make noise, and in the middle of a field at 4am people appreciate some acid noise.



You can 'rewire' rebirth to cubase where you can place your sequences into arrangements to make properly constructed tunes. Well you can on a pc, doubt you can on an ipad.


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## sim667 (Sep 22, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> You can 'rewire' rebirth to cubase where you can place your sequences into arrangements to make properly constructed tunes. Well you can on a pc, doubt you can on an ipad.



You just blew my mind.

I have no idea how to use any audio software properly


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## Citizen66 (Sep 22, 2011)

Well there's these things called books...


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## Citizen66 (Sep 22, 2011)

Cubase is sequencing software.


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## sim667 (Sep 22, 2011)

I knwo what the different softwares do..... just not how to use them


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## mrs quoad (Sep 23, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> You can 'rewire' rebirth to cubase where you can place your sequences into arrangements to make properly constructed tunes. Well you can on a pc, doubt you can on an ipad.


Maybe on an iPad connected to a PC?!

Don't think Cubase is available on iPads...?


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## elbows (Sep 23, 2011)

Starting to see a few music apps that can talk to eachother via virtual midi. So I could use a fancy chord-playing note keyboard like SoundPrism to trigger sounds from a synth program on the same iPad. Not tried it myself yet.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 24, 2011)

Crikey! Tiger woods 2012 free for a day or so!


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## mrs quoad (Sep 27, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not bothered about 'friendly'. Synth emulators aren't supposed to be friendly. They're supposed to be cauldrons of discovery at affordable prices (As in, more attainable than the real thing).





sim667 said:


> I might try and have a little play with it..... £22 is quite a big price tag for an app though


Ims-20 half price til the 28th. Korg sales seem to be relatively rare, so get in there (IMO) if either of youse remotely interested!

With an Asda iTunes gift card (if that offer's still on) that'd come out at about £8ish.


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## sim667 (Sep 29, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Ims-20 half price til the 28th. Korg sales seem to be relatively rare, so get in there (IMO) if either of youse remotely interested!
> 
> With an Asda iTunes gift card (if that offer's still on) that'd come out at about £8ish.




Hmmmm well if i get a bit of cash i might have a bash, but im not a serious muso or anything so it might just completely bewilder me.


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## 100% masahiko (Oct 5, 2011)

Should I buy the iPad 2 or wait for iPad 3?


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## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Should I buy the iPad 2 or wait for iPad 3?


You can ask the same question of any gadget. Do you want/need it now? Buy it now. It's good.
There won't be a new version till middle of next year anyway.


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## 100% masahiko (Oct 5, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You can ask the same question of any gadget. Do you want/need it now? Buy it now. It's good.
> There won't be a new version till middle of next year anyway.



I had already bought then got scared that iPad 3 was out this month...so cancelled (think i read it on this board).
So indecisive with this...FFS!


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## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

They wouldn't release a new model 6 months after the last one, you silly


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## DIMPLES1 (Oct 5, 2011)

I've had an iPad 2 for a a couple of months now & am finding browsing the Internet through safari, really hard work. It takes ages to load pages & often hangs & times out. I regularly go to load a page & wait that long I go & use a different app & then go back to safari hoping the page is there.

Didn't have this problem with the laptop.

Other Internet running apps like EBay & tapatalk run fine.

I sit underneath the wifi router. It is isn't running at a fast speed & am considering changing suppliers, O2.

Our iPhones Safari don't seem to have this problem.

Does anyone else experience this?
Is there anything I can do to improve things?
Should I moan to Apple?


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## Crispy (Oct 5, 2011)

Safari in iOS 5 will be better. In the meantime, you could try iCab mobile, which has proper tabs and background opening. I use it on my ipad 1 and it only crashes if I try and open loads of heavy pages and play an embedded video or something.


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## DIMPLES1 (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks for that. Just downloaded & had a little play, seems MUCH better


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

The thing is that they all use the same functions and rendering engine generally.

Try killing Safari (i.e. double-press the home button to get the quick launch bar, then touch and hold the Safari icon until everything wobbles and minus signs appear, then touch the minus sign to remove it) and then launching it again. I've very occasionally found that Safari gets quite slow after viewing lots of multimedia - I think it's caching stuff and not deleting it, or something like that.


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## DIMPLES1 (Oct 5, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The thing is that they all use the same functions and rendering engine generally.
> 
> Try killing Safari (i.e. double-press the home button to get the quick launch bar, then touch and hold the Safari icon until everything wobbles and minus signs appear, then touch the minus sign to remove it) and then launching it again. I've very occasionally found that Safari gets quite slow after viewing lots of multimedia - I think it's caching stuff and not deleting it, or something like that.




I got sick of doing that. Several times an hour :-(

I've had another play on iCab & so far it is flying compared to Safari!


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Should I buy the iPad 2 or wait for iPad 3?



If you want an iPad I'd go for the 2 now. It's the only tablet currently available worth buying. Nothing comes close to it nor will it for at least another year. The 3 won't be a big jump so don't worry about specs, Apple have proved yesterday it's only going to do step by step releases so you won't miss out on much by not buying now.


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## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The 3 won't be a big jump so don't worry about specs, Apple have proved yesterday it's only going to do step by step releases so you won't miss out on much by not buying now.



Thats not really safe advice since it ignores the fact that there are occasionally great leaps, and since people vary in terms of what aspect of spec improvements may make them go 'doh, I wish Id waited for that'.

Having said that, the IPad 3 rumours, which have mostly fallen silent since the strange timescales of the original rumour turned out to be wrong, were almost exclusively focussed on the idea that it was going to have a stupidly high screen resolution. For some people this may be seen as quite a leap, although Im not sure myself, and I haven't come up with any other ideas for what else they might improve in the next iPad. I certainly intend to skip a few generations if at all possible, and when people ask for my opinion about them getting iPads for Christmas, I haven't told them to hold back.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2011)

1 to 2 was a noticeable but not excessive jump; I have no great urge to buy a 2. I wouldn't expect 2 to 3 to be greater than that, in fact less of a jump.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2011)

Yup. Apple's update process is now undeniable, pointless worrying about the next one if you're six months away from it's release...


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## editor (Oct 11, 2011)

In case you missed it, Facebook has now finally been released for the iPad.
http://www.wirefresh.com/official-facebook-app-finally-promenades-on-to-the-apple-ipad/


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## Bungle73 (Oct 11, 2011)

editor said:


> In case you missed it, Facebook has now finally been released for the iPad.
> http://www.wirefresh.com/official-facebook-app-finally-promenades-on-to-the-apple-ipad/


Yes, but it's full of bugs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15256901


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## editor (Oct 11, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Yes, but it's full of bugs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15256901


Doh!


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2011)

Which is odd given the damn thing has been ready since July!


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## elbows (Oct 11, 2011)

That not odd, sitting on a product for a while is not magically going to fix a single bug. Different story if they had been effectively beta-testing it since then, but I guess they were not.


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## Structaural (Oct 12, 2011)

I'd like a Retina type display on an iPad, I've got too used it on an iPhone.


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## Crispy (Oct 12, 2011)

The ipad facebook app is good. much better than the website


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## DIMPLES1 (Oct 12, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The ipad facebook app is good. much better than the website



Except you can't reply to messages or leave comments if you're using a keyboard


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## mrs quoad (Oct 12, 2011)

OMFG AM DOWNLOADIONG IOS 5 OMFT!!!11


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## Kanda (Oct 12, 2011)

Good luck getting it to auth with Apple and install... Failed 3 times on iPad and 3 times on iPhone....


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## sim667 (Oct 12, 2011)

Ive already done me ipad, just doing me iphone.

Try putting it on airplane mode, or doing a soft restart if you cant get it to authorise. Mine did it eventually without doing either of those though.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2011)

Restarting helped me. Failed twice before it, afterwards went through no problem (though it's slow).


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The ipad facebook app is good. much better than the website



Haven't tried it but loving the new iPhone one!


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## Bungle73 (Oct 12, 2011)

You just have to keep trying until it works...or wait until tomorrow.  The error is because Apple's servers are getting hammered.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 13, 2011)

No trouble with authentication, etc (though airplane mode on / reset).

However, it's been backing up and restoring since 07:20, ffs. I suspect this is one of the disadvantages of having a nearly-full 64gb version.


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## Crispy (Oct 13, 2011)

went through first time. took about half an hour all told
Safari has tabs! Hurrah!


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## mrs quoad (Oct 13, 2011)

Last night, it was estimating nearly 2hrs for a 760mb iOS 5 dl.

This morning, it's estimating 18 minutes 

Bit of a difference in server traffic?!


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## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

So there is now a Guardian app for the iPad. It delivers the digital equivalent of the print edition using Newsstand, free trial available but to keep using it costs £9.99 a month.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/help/insideguardian/2011/oct/13/guardian-ipad-edition-newsstand-app


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## sim667 (Oct 13, 2011)

Im thinking about subscribing to national geographic through newstand.


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## Bungle73 (Oct 13, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Im thinking about subscribing to national geographic through newstand.


NG has been available on iOS for ages, long before the latest update and Newsstand.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 13, 2011)

Cocking fucksticks.

I DLed the Guardian app on my iMac, and off to my right something caught my eye.

Turned out to be my iPad flashing me something or other about what it was doing with the Guardian.

And then it opened all kind of doodahs.

So, yeah, long story short, crikey.


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## Crispy (Oct 13, 2011)

You have the auto-download thing turned on. Download an app in one pace and get it in the other.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You have the auto-download thing turned on. Download an app in one pace and get it in the other.


HELL YEAH

But I'm pretty sure I had that turned on in iOS 4, too. On the iPad, at least.

But this time it had new sparklez.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 14, 2011)

I suspect I might be relatively alone in this.

And it's probably the consequence of doing a PhD, and - quite often - looking for distraction.

Does anyone else look at the app store _every _Thursday evening or Friday morning, to see what the new releases / apps of the week are like?

I realised last night that I was quite excited about seeing what'd be released on iOS5 Thursday. And promptly thought, 'oh dear.'


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## sim667 (Oct 14, 2011)

I had no idea that they even released them on thursday/friday


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## mrs quoad (Oct 14, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I had no idea that they even released them on thursday/friday


I suspected that, too 

Usually around 4-6pm, fwiw


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## bmd (Oct 14, 2011)

Has anyone else tried downloading a film from iTunes? I tried doing the Orange Thursday thing but when the counter got down to 6hrs and 50m I realised that the offer would have expired before I got chance to watch the film. I could have downloaded the 1.5GB in about 10 minutes on my pc were I to pirate the thing but I'm getting to an age where I can afford to pay for stuff and keep trying to.

On a separate note, I'm now a fully paid up member (well, all 5GB of it but I bought the iPad and therefore I'm paid up) of the iCloud. The iPad keeps remotely opening iTunes on my pc for some reason but I'm sure it's for the best. I like the fact that people can finally buy an iThing, turn it on and use it. You know, like every other gadget owner has been able to do for the past 20 years.


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## bmd (Oct 14, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Good luck getting it to auth with Apple and install... Failed 3 times on iPad and 3 times on iPhone....



Ah well, it's only 700MB and at Apple Speed that takes just 2 days.


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## elbows (Oct 14, 2011)

The download time you mention for the film is not at all typical, it might be down to the strain their system have been under in recent days.


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## Bungle73 (Oct 14, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> The iPad keeps remotely opening iTunes on my pc for some reason but I'm sure it's for the best.


You must have the "Open iTunes when this iPad is connected" ticked in the options.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 14, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> Has anyone else tried downloading a film from iTunes? I tried doing the Orange Thursday thing but when the counter got down to 6hrs and 50m I realised that the offer would have expired before I got chance to watch the film. I could have downloaded the 1.5GB in about 10 minutes on my pc were I to pirate the thing but I'm getting to an age where I can afford to pay for stuff and keep trying to.


I really really suspect you're being hammered by the iOS 5 launch.

I regularly DL films from iTunes (particularly the 99p ones; they had Festen and a few others a while back, and the documentaries are often interesting). They'd take nothing like 6hrs! (Though on this Thurs evening, the 760mb iOS 5 was taking 2hrs).


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## sim667 (Oct 14, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> NG has been available on iOS for ages, long before the latest update and Newsstand.


Yeah i know...... Ive got the app, I'd only bought one issue to see how i got on with it.

When you upgrade to ios 5 it merges the nat geo app into newstand.


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## elbows (Oct 14, 2011)

Got an Apple TV today so I could mess around with AirPlay screen mirroring on the iPad 2. Quite happy with it so far, lag isn't too bad. Not exactly perfect for games due mostly to a high framerate over wifi being tricky to pull off, but more than acceptable for some stuff, depends whats being played.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

elbows said:


> So there is now a Guardian app for the iPad. It delivers the digital equivalent of the print edition using Newsstand, free trial available but to keep using it costs £9.99 a month.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/help/insideguardian/2011/oct/13/guardian-ipad-edition-newsstand-app



Nice app. Quite impressed how committed the Guardian are to new tech and how well they understand it too.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

elbows said:


> Got an Apple TV today so I could mess around with AirPlay screen mirroring on the iPad 2. Quite happy with it so far, lag isn't too bad. Not exactly perfect for games due mostly to a high framerate over wifi being tricky to pull off, but more than acceptable for some stuff, depends whats being played.



Have you tried buying/renting films etc via it?


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have you tried buying/renting films etc via it?



Not yet, have had a little look through their catalogue, briefly tried youtube and vimeo. Also used iTunes Home Sharing to listen to some iTunes content, and the remote app on an iPad as a much fancier remote control for this iTunes sharing stuff. It works pretty well. I might get me some network storage that has iTunes support so that I don't need a computer to be on at all to access my media on iPad & tv.


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## Winot (Oct 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have you tried buying/renting films etc via it?



Apple TV2 only does renting, doesn't it?


----------



## Winot (Oct 15, 2011)

elbows said:


> I might get me some network storage that has iTunes support so that I don't need a computer to be on at all to access my media on iPad & tv.



This would interest me too - what do you recommend?


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## Crispy (Oct 15, 2011)

It would have to transcode non-MP4 video formats on the fly to be worthwhile for me.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2011)

Winot said:


> This would interest me too - what do you recommend?



I haven't done my own research on this properly yet I did ask if anyone here had any advice on this some time ago, nobody had any. I've had some limited experience at work with a net gear device that you put your own hard drives in, and a quick search suggests that similar current model has some iTunes stuff, so thats the direction I might go in.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It would have to transcode non-MP4 video formats on the fly to be worthwhile for me.



Yeah I know what you mean. If I go down this route then its likely I will get an Elgato Turbo.264 HD dongle to speed encoding times, and then set about converting my existing library.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2011)

Winot said:


> Apple TV2 only does renting, doesn't it?



Yeah, full-blown purchases need to be done on another device and then streamed locally as far as I know. There are rumours that Apple are trying to get deals so they can do with movies etc what they have started doing with iTunes music, letting you re-download purchases to any of your devices. Can imagine that being coupled with the Apple TV in some way. People are also expecting a new Apple TV at some point that can output 1080 HD. If I wasn't interested in developing software for the iPad then I would have likely waited until these pieces fell into place, but I needed to be able to see what can be done with AirPlay & screen output mirroring.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2011)

Was tempted to buy an Apple TV today...probably going to get an iPad at some future point so thinking the unholy trinity would make sense to have.


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## elbows (Oct 17, 2011)

Check out ANIMOOG synth for the iPad, its just come out and is on special offer of 69p, its from the real Moog company, and will eventually be priced rather highly I believe. Just downloaded it, not had a chance to try it yet.

http://moogmusic.com/products/apps/animoog


----------



## Kanda (Oct 17, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yeah I know what you mean. If I go down this route then its likely I will get an Elgato Turbo.264 HD dongle to speed encoding times, and then set about converting my existing library.



I have one of these. Pretty good, much quicker.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 17, 2011)

elbows said:


> Check out ANIMOOG synth for the iPad, its just come out and is on special offer of 69p, its from the real Moog company, and will eventually be priced rather highly I believe. Just downloaded it, not had a chance to try it yet.
> 
> http://moogmusic.com/products/apps/animoog


"30 days at $0.99, full price $29.99..."


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## Structaural (Oct 17, 2011)

Had to go into an AppleStore today - checked out the iPad 2 - it's very nippy, but the resolution puts me off - too used to the dot pitch of my iPhone 4 now, so I look forward to a retina version in 3.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 17, 2011)

elbows said:


> Check out ANIMOOG synth for the iPad, its just come out and is on special offer of 69p, its from the real Moog company, and will eventually be priced rather highly I believe. Just downloaded it, not had a chance to try it yet.
> 
> http://moogmusic.com/products/apps/animoog



Cheers, im gonna nab that when I get home.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 17, 2011)

There's also a 2nd moog app out @ 69p, though it won't work until there's been an iOS 5 update


----------



## paolo (Oct 17, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Had to go into an AppleStore today - checked out the iPad 2 - it's very nippy, but the resolution puts me off - too used to the dot pitch of my iPhone 4 now, so I look forward to a retina version in 3.



Yep. Once you're used to the iPhone 4 display, everything else seems to look a bit sub-standard. I haven't felled compelled to upgrade my original iPad, but if they can get the display mega-rezzed, then I'd be up for it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm waiting on the iPad3 before bothering to get a tablet, having a nice HD screen would be very sweet indeed for gaming and films...


----------



## Winot (Oct 18, 2011)

The Guardian iPad edition is really quite good, and free until Jan 2012.


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## Structaural (Oct 18, 2011)

I would buy that - I think because of that app they've stopped selling the international edition (not that I bought that very often at 3euros a pop with no colour or S2 section) entirely. I miss reading the whole paper.
I use the shitty iPhone app and the website so I'd miss the comments on the iPad edition (which are often better than the article), which I understand are not there (as it's based on the print edition that's not surprising).


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

Winot said:


> The Guardian iPad edition is really quite good, and free until Jan 2012.



Does look very nice, well thought out too for tablet usage.


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## Bungle73 (Oct 18, 2011)

I think I prefer the two Times apps, but that might be because I'm used to them.  They're cheaper too (and you get more for your money).....if you subscribe from the website instead of from within the apps. For some reason they aren't integrated into Newsstand.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2011)

Interesting piece on Jobs being depressed by the reaction to the original iPad's reception in the press and media:



> Early in 2010, Apple arranged a special event specifically to unveil the iPad, but the media covering the event (which _AppleInsider_ attended) heaped scorn and castigation on the new product, complaining about its inability to run Adobe Flash and deriding it as "just a big iPod touch."
> 
> In the new book, according to a report by _the Huffington Post_, Jobs *reportedly* told Isaacson that the immediate media backlash left him "annoyed and depressed."
> 
> ...


----------



## The Octagon (Oct 25, 2011)

Having to trawl through missingx.com (online Lost and Found repository for Heathrow), can't believe how many people have left their iPads / iPhones / etc behind.

A phone I could perhaps understand, but 32 iPads (15 of those iPad2) being forgotten and left in the terminal?

Ouch.

I wonder how much proof you have to provide to claim them?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 25, 2011)

I think I'm going to go for the Galaxy Note now, rather than the iPad. I love the 5" form factor and ICS is going to mean greater numbers of cool apps. I just don't think I'd use an iPad enough to have it AND a 5" tablet. 

I'm using a Dell Streak atm, and I couldn't go back to a smaller phone screen.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 28, 2011)

Civilisation Revolutions for £1.49! Crikey!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2011)

Yup, nice price!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 28, 2011)

Incredibooth is free this weekend by the way.

Now that Stanza is defunct under OS 5 - and given that it was bought by Amazon who've killed it so there won't be an update - does anyone have any good recommendations for readers that integrate well with multiple sources of free books? (There's a lot of bitterness about the demise of Stanza out there.)


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 28, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Incredibooth is free this weekend by the way.
> 
> Now that Stanza is defunct under OS 5 - and given that it was bought by Amazon who've killed it so there won't be an update - does anyone have any good recommendations for readers that integrate well with multiple sources of free books? (There's a lot of bitterness about the demise of Stanza out there.)


Just use iBooks? It accepts books in ePub format.

Apart from that I don't know of any...any decent ones anyway.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 28, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Just use iBooks? It accepts books in ePub format.
> 
> Apart from that I don't know of any...any decent ones anyway.


I use iBooks for the (few) ePubs that I have, but one of the good things about Stanza was how easy it was to directly grab random out of print or freely-released books, not only from Project Gutenberg but also from a bunch of other sources. iBooks and Kindle Store don't make it exactly very easy to browse free literature.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Civilisation Revolutions for £1.49! Crikey!


Bought
>_< Any excuse to beat that game in every way with every civ.
been playing the iphone version since forever. don't suppose anyone knows of a PROPAH HARDCORE civ game for iOS?
I'm getting bored of sprinting to tanks in the 16th century and wiping everyone out.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 28, 2011)

P


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 28, 2011)

Gameloft's settlers for brief / light distraction? More age of empires than civ, mind. And getting pretty old by now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2011)

The consoley Civ is perfectly suited to the iPad thinking about it...brilliant game for those long train or plane journey's...


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 29, 2011)

Why is it lot of people seem to be failing to grasp the concept of the paid magazine model on the iPad?  Go to any magazine app and you'll find one star reviews from people complaining that the magazine "isn't free" and that you "have to pay".  Do these people really expect to get magazine content you normally have to pay for free?  And all these apps make it perfectly clear you need to purchase issues, but I guess people are too stupid to read the info before writing an asinine review - examples of which I see time and time again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2011)

Heh nicely done.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 30, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Bought
> >_< Any excuse to beat that game in every way with every civ.
> been playing the iphone version since forever. don't suppose anyone knows of a PROPAH HARDCORE civ game for iOS?
> I'm getting bored of sprinting to tanks in the 16th century and wiping everyone out.


How's it going? Beaten deity yet?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 30, 2011)

Seeing as it plays exactly like the ipod version, I beat deity every time 
Like this:
All production to warriors. Build 4 of them, then switch to all growth.
Explore with warriors until 100 gold for free settler. Put that city to all growth. You won't be building courthouses, so you can build your cities close together.
Use warriors to block choke points to other civs. Pay for more warriors if needed, but the idea is to seal off a large area for expansion. As long as you keep your blocking warriors outside the 'large' city radius of their cities, they won't declare war.
When 2 cities reach size 3, switch to 2 production and 1 trade. build 2 settlers and research alphabet.
With four cities, put one tile to growth and everything else to trade. Research writing, code of laws. Switch to Republic and build 4 more settlers (2 production, 1 trade again). Rush settler production if you can. Now you have eight cities doing 1 growth and the rest on trade. If you get a scientist at any point, don't settle them - just wait. Any excess production put into a wonder that you will never actually build (just save up the production). Research literacy, democracy. Switch to democracy. Research mathematics, university, invention, gunpowder, steam power (send your free cruiser looking for atlantis), metallurgy, COMBUSTION (use your scientist to rush it if you have one). You now have tanks well before anyone else and can go on the rampage. Use the massed armies of legions etc. outside your borders to level up your tanks. Wipe everyone out, or leave a straggler and concentrate on a different type of victory.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 30, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Seeing as it plays exactly like the ipod version, I beat deity every time
> Like this:
> All production to warriors. Build 4 of them, then switch to all growth.
> Explore with warriors until 100 gold for free settler. Put that city to all growth. You won't be building courthouses, so you can build your cities close together.
> ...


Have you memorised all that?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 30, 2011)

Yes. Yes I have.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2011)

Blimey!


----------



## TruXta (Oct 30, 2011)

So, what are the best games for the IPad then?


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 30, 2011)

TruXta said:


> So, what are the best games for the IPad then?





mrs quoad said:


> If you really, really want an idea of iPad gaming at its best, then (IMO) have a look at:
> 
> Racing: Real Racing 2; Asphalt 6; (and Need for Speed on the iPod, though it's damnably slow on the iPad); Uber Racer
> RPGs: Aralon (thunderingly impressive, independent); Infinity Blade (one-dimensional after a while, but STUNNING graphics); Dungeon Hunter 2 (ridiculous numbers of items / leveling potential; Final Fantasy 3 (though tbf it's overpriced for iPad, at £10, compared to other games; and isn't massively better. DS port, IMU)
> ...


IMO!

E2a: this week, I'd recommend rope rescue and bike baron as two more corking time wasters (puzzle / bike trials). And flip kick bmx. 

And gameloft have a new fps out too, which is MASSIVE (>1gb) and getting decent reviews.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 30, 2011)

You know what I play most often on the iPad? Dungeon Crawl, on the remote server crawl.akrasiac.org, via iSSH.

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 30, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You know what I play most often on the iPad? Dungeon Crawl, on the remote server crawl.akrasiac.org, via iSSH.
> 
> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/


You what now?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 30, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> You what now?


Game play text login argh fuck restart playagain.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 30, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Game play text login argh fuck restart playagain.


How does one ssh?

Issh looks like a £6 app? What's it do?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 30, 2011)

Well, it's a general-purpose remote server app, it's not really designed for games. It just happens that the game I like to play is most easily accessible through ssh (secure shell).


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 4, 2011)

There's a Doctor Who encyclopaedia app out.  Trouble is it's £4.99 and it only covers the eleventh Doctor.  If you want info on the others you have to pay another £4.99 for each one!


----------



## TruXta (Nov 4, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> IMO!
> 
> E2a: this week, I'd recommend rope rescue and bike baron as two more corking time wasters (puzzle / bike trials). And flip kick bmx.
> 
> And gameloft have a new fps out too, which is MASSIVE (>1gb) and getting decent reviews.



Cheers, only saw this now.


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 4, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> There's a Doctor Who encyclopaedia app out. Trouble is it's £4.99 and it only covers the eleventh Doctor. If you want info on the others you have to pay another £4.99 for each one!


I saw a FREE book on how to make house music today!

Which, given I've got a few synths, and greatly enjoy tinkering, I was really interested in DLing. A 333 mb dl, for free!

Then my eye skimmed across in-app purchases... £19.49, unlock whole book


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 5, 2011)

Have you seen the new Distro app?  It's articles from the Engadet site (plus an editorial) laid out like a magazine. There's a new issue every Friday, and it's free!



mrs quoad said:


> I saw a FREE book on how to make house music today!
> 
> Which, given I've got a few synths, and greatly enjoy tinkering, I was really interested in DLing. A 333 mb dl, for free!
> 
> Then my eye skimmed across in-app purchases... £19.49, unlock whole book


You're not one of these iTunes reviewers that moans about having to pay for magazines and newspapers in "free" apps are you?


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 5, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> You're not one of these iTunes reviewers that moans about having to pay for magazines and newspapers in "free" apps are you?


Yes, yes, that's _exactly_ who I am. Extrapolating from 1x £20 book to all published media - and, indeed, 'free' games - is an entirely reasonable and 500% justified extrapolation. Oh yes.

btw, you're not one of those people who complains about iTunes reviewers who complain about having to pay for magazines and newspapers in "free" apps, are you?


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 5, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Yes, yes, that's _exactly_ who I am. Extrapolating from 1x £20 book to all published media - and, indeed, 'free' games - is an entirely reasonable and 500% justified extrapolation. Oh yes.
> 
> btw, you're not one of those people who complains about iTunes reviewers who complain about having to pay for magazines and newspapers in "free" apps, are you?


Well you seemed a bit miffed at being asked to pay for something you thought was "free".


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 5, 2011)

In fairness, that 'free' book that's actually a false door into a £20 book is a cunt's trick.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 5, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> In fairness, that 'free' book that's actually a false door into a £20 book is a cunt's trick.


Yeah, fancy giving you a chance to see what it's like (which is what it sounds like) rather than charging the full price up front. How dare they!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2011)

Is anyone actually shocked by in app purchase these days? Really?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 5, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Yeah, fancy giving you a chance to see what it's like (which is what it sounds like) rather than charging the full price up front. How dare they!



Are you really suggesting that there aren't any apps that claim to be free then give you nothing but a paywall? And are you really suggesting that this isn't annoying?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 5, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is anyone actually shocked by in app purchase these days? Really?



There's a difference between in-app purchases, and paid for apps that masquerade as being free.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> There's a difference between in-app purchases, and paid for apps that masquerade as being free.



The quote above said the app was free and there was an in app purchase...


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 5, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Are you really suggesting that there aren't any apps that claim to be free then give you nothing but a paywall? And are you really suggesting that this isn't annoying?


If by "claiming to be free" you mean simply that that button in iTunes says "Free App" then no that is not annoying because these apps usually state quite clearly in the description that content has to be paid for; and also you'd think the section at the side labelled "Top In-App Purchases" would give some clue.

What IS annoying is people who leave one star reviews on newspaper and magazine apps because they assumed they'd get premium content for free.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 5, 2011)

Do you both really not get that it's annoying when 1 app has 1 in-app purchase available? That's not an in-app purchase. That's an app, and should be listed as such.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2011)

Annoying to who? Idiots who can't work out how to read what's on the screen?


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 5, 2011)

What's wrong with having a try before you buy model?  Anyway you haven't lost anything so why the big fuss?



Kid_Eternity said:


> Annoying to who? Idiots who can't work out how to read what's on the screen?


Oh, tell me about! The number of reviews I've read where it's obvious the reviewer hasn't bothered to read the description properly. It's unbelievable.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2011)

Yup, sometimes you have to wade through pages of fools bitching just to get to some actual feedback!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2011)

iPad 2 used to help disabled voters vote in US elections:









> Disabled voters in Oregon will nominate their next representative in congress with the tap of a finger.
> The state is launching the first iPad voting scheme in the U.S. as it goes to the polls tomorrow to replace ex-Representative David Wu, who left amid allegations of sex with a minor.
> Election workers will take the iPads to disabled voters who might otherwise have difficulties marking their ballots, the AP wrote.



And here's another example of using iPads in the classroom increasing educational benefits.



> At three elementary schools in Clover, South Carolina, students can’t wait to see if there is a gray cart in their classroom.
> 
> “I want you to go to the one we were working on with decimals,” said fifth grade teacher Jennifer Johnson as she handed out iPads to her math students.  The application they’re using reinforces a lesson she’s been teaching, and immediately, the children are immersed.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 8, 2011)

The Free! Nah Just KIdding thing _is_ a cunt's trick. Just cos it's in the small print doesn't make it an honest and trustworthy way to do business.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The Free! Nah Just KIdding thing _is_ a cunt's trick. Just cos it's in the small print doesn't make it an honest and trustworthy way to do business.



No one's claiming it's honest, all I've said it you'd be a fool these days to not expect it and to read things properly. Only idiots get caught in traps like that.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No one's claiming it's honest, all I've said it you'd be a fool these days to not expect it and to read things properly. Only idiots get caught in traps like that.


"idiots" make up 99% of the population. Congratulations for being smart enough not to fall for the trick. Most people would, and would end up getting angry. It's that sort of shitty user experience that apple desperately tries to get rid of. I wouldn't be surprised if the app in question gets removed from the store.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 8, 2011)

Thanks, Crispy. I thought I was going mad then. Imagine finding something annoying, annoying! What an idiot!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2011)

I don't buy that idiots make up 99% it's more likely they're just the most vocal on account of realising how stupid they've been and wanting to blame that on other people.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The Free! Nah Just KIdding thing _is_ a cunt's trick. Just cos it's in the small print doesn't make it an honest and trustworthy way to do business.


How is it?  It's perfectly clear what the facts are before you download an app; and in the case things like magazines and newspaper apps only a fool would expect to get something for free that in the shops you have to pay for.  At the end of the day, as I said before, you have lost NOTHNG by downloading an app, so why act like you've had some great wrong committed against you (one review even suggesting Trading Standards should get involved.  I'd love to hear that conversation. LOL!)?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't buy that idiots make up 99% it's more likely they're just the most vocal on account of realising how stupid they've been and wanting to blame that on other people.



Aaaargh  They're not stupid!

"Hey, here is a free app!"
<user downloads>
"To use this free app you have to pay £20!"
<user annoyed>

The user, in this instance, is not stupid. The app developer is a twat.

God knows why you're both defending this. It's shit practice.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 8, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> How is it?  It's perfectly clear what the facts are before you download an app; and in the case things like magazines and newspaper apps only a fool would expect to get something for free that in the shops you have to pay for.  At the end of the day, as I said before, you have lost NOTHNG by downloading an app, so why act like you've had some great wrong committed against you (one review even suggesting Trading Standards should get involved.  I'd love to hear that conversation. LOL!)?



You seem to be confusing apps designed as a platform for delivering premium content - say, Zinio, Kindle - and apps that are free to download but, when opened, have only one function and it's an in-app payment to get it to work.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 8, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> You seem to be confusing apps designed as a platform for delivering premium content - say, Zinio, Kindle - and apps that are free to download but, when opened, have only one function and it's an in-app payment to get it to work.


Like what?  All the apps I've seen that have in-app purchasing state quite clearly in the description that that this exists.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Like what? All the apps I've seen that have in-app purchasing state quite clearly in the description that that this exists.



Indeed and yet if you don't read something properly apparently you're a poor fool who some evil corporation is treating like a cunt...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Aaaargh  They're not stupid!
> 
> "Hey, here is a free app!"
> <user downloads>
> ...



Defending the consumers right to be called an idiot if he doesn't use if brain.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 8, 2011)

Oh the humanity!


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

iOS 5.0.1 which just came out brings the multitouch multitasking gestures to the original iPad 1 (but Im posting here so the original iPad thread can rest in peace)


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Incredibooth is free this weekend by the way.
> 
> Now that Stanza is defunct under OS 5 - and given that it was bought by Amazon who've killed it so there won't be an update - does anyone have any good recommendations for readers that integrate well with multiple sources of free books? (There's a lot of bitterness about the demise of Stanza out there.)


They updated Stanza!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Oh the humanity!



You'll be crying 'won't someone think of the children??' next.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You know what I play most often on the iPad? Dungeon Crawl, on the remote server crawl.akrasiac.org, via iSSH.
> 
> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/



that looks great. reminds me of some other rougelike I used to play online. Forget the name 

eta: I remember now, it was tomeNET!


----------



## bmd (Nov 16, 2011)

I tell you what, it's an awesome piece of kit for making music on and the price of the apps compared to the functionality you get out of them is unbelievable. I'll post up the apps I've got tonight but I got Animoog for 99p whiuch I'd have sold both my parents for tbh. Garageband is £2.99! I got the DM1 drum machine for £2.99 too and that is just an amazing drum machine. You get about 5 million different sounds in the one app. So good. Oh and Korg's iKaossilator for £2.99 was a right bargain too.


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 17, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> I tell you what, it's an awesome piece of kit for making music on and the price of the apps compared to the functionality you get out of them is unbelievable. I'll post up the apps I've got tonight but I got Animoog for 99p whiuch I'd have sold both my parents for tbh. Garageband is £2.99! I got the DM1 drum machine for £2.99 too and that is just an amazing drum machine. You get about 5 million different sounds in the one app. So good. Oh and Korg's iKaossilator for £2.99 was a right bargain too.


If you enjoy Garageband, you might get a whole lot out of Nanostudio.

atm it's iPod native but scales up relatively well (there's apparently going to be an iPad native version before the end of 2011). It's way, way, way ahead of garageband for anything remotely dancey. And isn't restricted to steps like the iMS-20 / ReBirth. Lovely, lovely, lovely piece of kit; and the one app that anyone should have a very srs look at (IMO) if they're interested in putting together anything remotely electronic.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> I tell you what, it's an awesome piece of kit for making music on and the price of the apps compared to the functionality you get out of them is unbelievable. I'll post up the apps I've got tonight but I got Animoog for 99p whiuch I'd have sold both my parents for tbh. Garageband is £2.99! I got the DM1 drum machine for £2.99 too and that is just an amazing drum machine. You get about 5 million different sounds in the one app. So good. Oh and Korg's iKaossilator for £2.99 was a right bargain too.



That's interesting to hear, been wondering about whether anyone would use one seriously for making music...


----------



## Crispy (Nov 17, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> If you enjoy Garageband, you might get a whole lot out of Nanostudio.


I am so getting this when it comes out for ipad


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 17, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I am so getting this when it comes out for ipad


I predict that I'll get it, spend about 5 hours absolutely obsessed by playing JUST ONE NOTE about 8 million times with infinite minute tweaks of the various filters / mods / processes, then feel utterly overwhelmed and will never go near it again. But nor will I delete it, because there'll be a script at the back of my head saying 'yes, but ONE DAY you might write a masterpiece on it that will revolutionise dance music and create a worldwide gabba / late-1990s hard house fusion eruption. And the success of that track will give me the financial independence to take a year off work, and write the next Great American Novel, which will catapult me to a quiet kind of fame in which I never appear in public as myself and never give interviews (just like Thomas Pynchon) and thereby experience none of the downsides of fame, but nonetheless gain all the financial benefits of indiscriminate success and unbounded creative genius.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 17, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I am so getting this when it comes out for ipad



I'm so getting an ipad when this comes out


----------



## bmd (Nov 18, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> If you enjoy Garageband, you might get a whole lot out of Nanostudio.
> 
> atm it's iPod native but scales up relatively well (there's apparently going to be an iPad native version before the end of 2011). It's way, way, way ahead of garageband for anything remotely dancey. And isn't restricted to steps like the iMS-20 / ReBirth. Lovely, lovely, lovely piece of kit; and the one app that anyone should have a very srs look at (IMO) if they're interested in putting together anything remotely electronic.



Thanks for that, I am more into dancey type stuff so I'll give it a go. I was looking at this month's Computer Music mag and there's an app in there that they reckon is a full on proper DAW for the iPad. Can't remember the name but I'll post up if I remember.


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 18, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> Thanks for that, I am more into dancey type stuff so I'll give it a go. I was looking at this month's Computer Music mag and there's an app in there that they reckon is a full on proper DAW for the iPad. Can't remember the name but I'll post up if I remember.


If in doubt, YouTube it first! Pretty sure there are some decent nano studio demos out there


----------



## bmd (Nov 18, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> If in doubt, YouTube it first! Pretty sure there are some decent nano studio demos out there



Looks great, I'm gonna give it a go, cheers. Check this out. It's the iPad version of the classic KORG iMS-20. I think I'll be giving this one a go too...


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 18, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> Looks great, I'm gonna give it a go, cheers. Check this out. It's the iPad version of the classic KORG iMS-20. I think I'll be giving this one a go too...


Got it! I've occasionally puffed it on this thread 

Its stunning. Beats rebirth by a country mile, for my money. 

It's the only synth I've put anything close to a full track together on. Well. 6-8 sequenced patterns, at least 

My problem tends to be that there's so much tweakability that I tend to get hung up on infinite tinkering with just one note. And 4hrs later, I've forgotten whatever it was that I meant to do. 

Properly stunning app, though. Shit instruction book / manual, mind 

E2a: nano studio wins, for some people, on the lack of a step sequencer, though. You can put songs together with individual tracks, like GarageBand. Likewise, each track is really really editable. Different interface, but it has more... Flexibility... In some directions than Korg. Apparently. 

It's Korg I go back to, though. Feels like hardware in software form.


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 18, 2011)

Btw, Korg goes half price for a week or two every three months.

IME.


----------



## bmd (Nov 19, 2011)

Should have known you'd have it!  I love some of the tracks people have made with it. 

I got Nanostudio. It's the iPhone one but as far as I've read there are no problems with it scaling up. If I use it a lot I'll buy the iPad one when it's out. Ten quid ain't gonna break the bank. I have only had a quick faff with it so far but I like the ease of use. App I've used most is the DM1 drum machine, it's awesome. Easy to use and loads and loads of different drum machines to try out. I was reading that someone connected a small keyboard through the camera connector cable and used that to mess on with it. 

Have you tried the KORG iElectribe? That looks really interesting too.


----------



## bmd (Nov 19, 2011)

Btw what case/cover do people use? I'm gonna get the Otterbox Defender for mine.


----------



## freshnero (Nov 19, 2011)

I gave in and got a ipad2 32gb and it was slick,But i missed being able to customise it like
My Android phone.So i'm going to wait till android tablets have gotten as slick as their phone
ie. Galaxy S2


----------



## bmd (Nov 19, 2011)

I've had an Android phone since the G1 and did the whole rooting thing with that and I've got a Desire now and rooted that and played with the custom ROMs but tbh I couldnt be bothered with faffing around with it after a while. I've it takes quite a lot of time and effort to get a unique looking Android phone, you could use other people's looks and front ends etc but what's the point? I also felt that whilst I was busy customising my phone there were lots of other things I could be spending my time on that were more worthwhile to me. I'll be getting an iPhone next time.

I like Apple's products. They just work and if that comes at the price of a walled garden approach then so be it, I'll spend my time faffing on with the apps.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> I've had an Android phone since the G1 and did the whole rooting thing with that and I've got a Desire now and rooted that and played with the custom ROMs but tbh I couldnt be bothered with faffing around with it after a while. I've it takes quite a lot of time and effort to get a unique looking Android phone, you could use other people's looks and front ends etc but what's the point? I also felt that whilst I was busy customising my phone there were lots of other things I could be spending my time on that were more worthwhile to me. I'll be getting an iPhone next time.
> 
> I like Apple's products. They just work and if that comes at the price of a walled garden approach then so be it, I'll spend my time faffing on with the apps.



One of the reasons I went for an iPhone originally, had enough of tinkering, just wanted something that worked out of the box. The walled garden is overrated ime, it's rarely caused me any real headache.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 22, 2011)

Apparently all you need is love?


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 1, 2011)

Infinity Blade 2. 

Released today, first impressions = "fucking hell."

Utterly smooth, staggering graphics, shocking American voice acting, very very nice gameplay. 

Had a feeling this might be my game / app of the year. 

Think it might be.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 1, 2011)




----------



## Structaural (Dec 1, 2011)

Whoa


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 1, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Whoa


Direct screen capture / screen shot captured from my iPad 

About 5hrs of gameplay in*, and am loving it so far. Proper stonker of a game.

It's got the same kinda looping dynamic to the original, but... with lots more room to explore. Off the top of my head, the first main path leads past 4 (or 5?) trolls, followed by a space with 2 main alternatives (+1 side room).

Main alternative 1 leads to an arena with... um... 4 or 5 more sequential trolls (including one earlydoors mahoosive baddie), then some big bad-ass motherfucker who's something like level 200. Haven't beaten him yet.

Main alternative 2 leads to 2 baddies, then a 3-way split, each of which has >1 intervening troll, with a big baddie at the end of it (L25, L50 and L100). I've beaten the L25 and L50 ones OH YES. And had my arse kicked by the L100 (who's unblockable, only dodgeable, I think).

Weapons / kit can now be bolstered by equipping them with 'gems.' Which give bonuses like +25 fire attack, +229 gem drop, +129 weapon drop, etc.

And weapons now come in 3 classes.

'Light': just like IB1's weapons.
'Heavy': can't do conventional blocks (can only do directional blocks, which is a bit of a pain), but substantially more damage
'Dual': fucking love these. Whippy-quick, v v light, can get daft-high numbers of combo hits.

*(when Artichoke asks how work went today, I'll have to say "got off to a BIT of a slow start..." )

Going by iTunes, it's just 1.06gb; but my iPod wouldn't DL it until I had about 3gb free.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Infinity Blade 2.
> 
> Released today, first impressions = "fucking hell."
> 
> ...



Yup that game looks amazing. With AirPlay Apple are going to intrude into the home console market if they play their cards right.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 1, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup that game looks amazing. With AirPlay Apple are going to intrude into the home console market if they play their cards right.


There's a fundamental problem there. 

I've tried this with an HDMI lead and IB 1. 

The problem, IME, was that the game relies entirely on accurately interacting with a touchscreen. Which you're not watching. 

Whilst the image you're watching is projected onto a screen you can't directly interact with.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2011)

I've played some very nice looking iPad games, but without exception they all fell foul of having basically dull and repetitive gameplay. "The iPad - it can have games as pretty and boring as the PC can!"


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 1, 2011)

Got one for my Mrs for xmas


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> There's a fundamental problem there.
> 
> I've tried this with an HDMI lead and IB 1.
> 
> ...



Funny how people manage to use joypads without looking at them. Keyboards too.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 1, 2011)

Yeah, but the keys and buttons on those are in a fixed place. With a touch screen you'd have to make blind approximations.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 1, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Funny how people manage to use joypads without looking at them. Keyboards too.


But the point of an interactive touchscreen is more than a little bit different!

Get it with gyroscope controls, and even crude / forgiving touchscreen. Seems a bit misplaced with IB and similar games, tho. 

Like, try doing it with angry birds and see how far you get.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, but the keys and buttons on those are in a fixed place. With a touch screen you'd have to make blind approximations.



Not if you're tilting the thing to steer.


----------



## bmd (Dec 2, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Btw, Korg goes half price for a week or two every three months.
> 
> IME.



Tis now, ends tonight.


----------



## elbows (Dec 2, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not if you're tilting the thing to steer.



Say that you like, its not going to be competing seriously with consoles for a long time if ever, due to the quality and depth of games, and tactile controller issues.


----------



## elbows (Dec 2, 2011)

Or to put it another way, there is presently quite a large gap between console gaming and casual/mobile gaming.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 2, 2011)

An enormous gap, but I don't think that mobile should try and emulate console. It should stick to short, addictive puzzle style games.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> An enormous gap, but I don't think that mobile should try and emulate console. It should stick to short, addictive puzzle style games.


Tablets sure as shit shouldn't. Likewise - IMO - any half-decent touch-interface phone.

The games that've got most of my time over the last 2yrs have been a bit of racing, lots more RPG-type, and a decent smattering of real-time / turn-based strategy.

With a tiny bit of platforming. And a bit more sport.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 2, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Tablets sure as shit shouldn't. Likewise - IMO - any half-decent touch-interface phone.
> 
> The games that've got most of my time over the last 2yrs have been a bit of racing, lots more RPG-type, and a decent smattering of real-time / turn-based strategy.
> 
> With a tiny bit of platforming. And a bit more sport.



Shouldn't what... emulate or stick to simple games?


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 2, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Shouldn't what... emulate or stick to simple games?


'Stick to short, addictive puzzle style games.'

IMVFO.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 2, 2011)

Horses for courses, I guess. My assumption would be that anyone wanting to play in-depth games like that would be much better off playing it on a console or on PC.

Whatever makes the money, I guess.


----------



## elbows (Dec 2, 2011)

Yeah, I don't think there is anything wrong with iPad etc games, I was just refuting kid eternity's suggestion that Apple are going to intrude into the home console market. Its the mobile gaming stuff that they have disrupted.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 2, 2011)

If Apple weren't going to intrude on home gaming they wouldn't have highlighted airplay gaming. It's where they are headed.


----------



## elbows (Dec 2, 2011)

Home gaming is not quite the same as console gaming though. I suppose there is a market in games that go beyond casual gaming but are not as deep or button-reliant as the big console titles. Only time will tell how much this eats into the big money console market though, I suspect there is plenty of room for all and that quite a lot will come down to quite how disgusting a price-tag the apple tv has, and whether really good games ever get made for the likes of the kinect.


----------



## bmd (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't think you can beat hardware with a touchscreen. Playing games with virtual joysticks on screen is nothing like playing one with a joypad. You can't tell which way you're pointing with a touchscreen, for instance, without looking.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 2, 2011)

Indeed. I've never had any success with virtual approximations of hardware input devices.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 2, 2011)

Yep, totally agree. There are some excellent games on touchscreen, but they are limited to genres that don't require precise or rapid controls. As long as there is a market for 'core' videogames, then Apple will have no part of it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 2, 2011)

It is possible to have good touchscreen controls for games, but as long as they just keep imitating joypads etc they are always going to be second best. Similarly with keyboards.

I'm more interested in things which have an entirely new interface built specifically around things that (multi)touch is good at. Thin Sway and Eliss for example, or even, simply, board/tile games, of which there are a lot on the iPad and for which touch is arguably the best current input mechanism.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 2, 2011)

Yep - there's all sorts of stuff that touch can do that joypad/kb/mouse can't - and vice versa. There's room for both


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 3, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Horses for courses, I guess. My assumption would be that anyone wanting to play in-depth games like that would be much better off playing it on a console or on PC.
> 
> Whatever makes the money, I guess.


Then I couldn't play them during toilet breaks, in the kitchen, or whilst Artichoke watches some godawful shite on tv!


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 3, 2011)

I think I'm gonna go to the darkside and get an ipad.  I had my Touchpad swiped (along with my laptop) last week.  waiting for the insurance to come through now.   But the only thing that bothers me is that I seemed to have developed rsi from using a tablet. I thought it was from relentless Adobe Illustrator work on my laptop, but that has continued and the tablet use has not.   I've not used the tablet for a week and now my wrist doesn't hurt anymore.  Did anyone else get the same problem?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 3, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> I think I'm gonna go to the darkside and get an ipad.  I had my Touchpad swiped (along with my laptop) last week.  waiting for the insurance to come through now.   But the only thing that bothers me is that I seemed to have developed rsi from using a tablet. I thought it was from relentless Adobe Illustrator work on my laptop, but that has continued and the tablet use has not.   I've not used the tablet for a week and now my wrist doesn't hurt anymore.  Did anyone else get the same problem?


Can't say I have. In fact I'd have thought that moving your hand around in large movements than just with keyboard and mouse would have been better for RSI. Have you been doing anything odd with it, like typing for ages on the onscreen keyboard?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 3, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Yep - there's all sorts of stuff that touch can do that joypad/kb/mouse can't - and vice versa. There's room for both



Of course, does depend by what you mean by room tho, how big a slice of the pie can Apple grab has implications for us more traditional gamers...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Can't say I have. In fact I'd have thought that moving your hand around in large movements than just with keyboard and mouse would have been better for RSI. Have you been doing anything odd with it, like typing for ages on the onscreen keyboard?


Nope, I have been reading pdf mags where you swipe to go to the next page. Perhaps thats it.  I try to avoid typing on these damn things, drives me nuts.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 3, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> Nope, I have been reading pdf mags where you swipe to go to the next page. Perhaps thats it.  I try to avoid typing on these damn things, drives me nuts.


Hmm. Posture changes? Or perhaps it's just coincidence.

I spent so much time playing with the iPad in bed, propping my face up with my left hand, that I ended up with a sore on my cheekbone where my palm rested


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 3, 2011)

Seems I'm not the only one.  http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1042350


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 6, 2011)

Crispy said:


> That's nice, but it's no replacement for an interface designed for the screen size. Nanostudio will benefit greatly from that.


iPad native / universal nanostudio app now out! Omfg. 

As soon as we finish watching the apprentice, I'm nailing that mofo.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 6, 2011)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> Should have known you'd have it!  I love some of the tracks people have made with it.
> 
> I got Nanostudio. It's the iPhone one but as far as I've read there are no problems with it scaling up. If I use it a lot I'll buy the iPad one when it's out. Ten quid ain't gonna break the bank. I have only had a quick faff with it so far but I like the ease of use. App I've used most is the DM1 drum machine, it's awesome. Easy to use and loads and loads of different drum machines to try out. I was reading that someone connected a small keyboard through the camera connector cable and used that to mess on with it.
> 
> Have you tried the KORG iElectribe? That looks really interesting too.


Mandatory BMD quote, to raise attention to nano studio going universal. Can't wait for a tinker!


----------



## bmd (Dec 6, 2011)

Yeah! Just got the update and saw it had been ipadified. It's had quite a hefty update hasn't it.

I've got the iMS-20 and the iElectribe but not really had much of a play with them yet. I've had a slight faff with the iMS-20, which is awesome and makes the best noises but now I've had a go I've bought a book about waveforms etc to try to understand how to get the most out of it. I like playing along to tunes with the kaos pads on it. 

That Kaossilator app has been ipadified too. I like it even more now. It's great for electro-y sounds.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 6, 2011)

My reservations about kaossilator & electribe have been that they look a bit... Limited?

I've got the impression electribe is quite boxed off, but can't quite remember why. 

My first impressions of kaossilator was that it looked like a nice toy or an appreciable proof of principle, but I wasn't sure it went much further than that. Which, at £7ish, would be quite an expensive proof of principle. 

Am I wrong?


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 6, 2011)

Btw, what book?


----------



## bmd (Dec 6, 2011)

No, don't think you're wrong, you've summed them up quite well imo. I need that limitation atm as I find some of the apps a little overwhelming. I like the Kaossilator as it's quite good for just dipping in and playing with ideas, a bit like Beatwave.

The book is Dance Music manual - Tools, Toys and Techniques, published by Elsevier. Its worth a look and makes the theories quite readable imo. The author has a website too, dancemusicproduction.com.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 7, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> iPad native / universal nanostudio app now out! Omfg.
> 
> As soon as we finish watching the apprentice, I'm nailing that mofo.



*goes and buys iPad* shit, no money. *cries, carries on with tiny iphone version*


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 10, 2011)

How do I explain to this horrid little machine that I am lying on a pillow, my head on its side, and so it is not helpful at all for the screen to rotate by 90 degrees?


----------



## elbows (Dec 10, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> How do I explain to this horrid little machine that I am lying on a pillow, my head on its side, and so it is not helpful at all for the screen to rotate by 90 degrees?



You can go into settings, general, and then choose to use the physical side switch to Lock Rotation.

If you want to keep that switch as a volume mute, then you can use the multitasking bar instead. Either double-tap the home button, or use the 4 fingers swiping up from the bottom of the screen gesture to get the bar. Then swipe your finger from left to right over the bar to get to some controls, the leftmost button of which will toggle screen rotation lock on and off. (unless you already did the settings thing to make the physical switch do screen rotation locking, in which case the button on the bar will be for mute)


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 10, 2011)

Thank you.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 13, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> How do I explain to this horrid little machine that I am lying on a pillow, my head on its side, and so it is not helpful at all for the screen to rotate by 90 degrees?


I like to think Maurice was writing this sideways.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2011)

The iPad is getting everywhere, big hit with Doctors in the US, airline pilots are using them on a number of lines instead of paper manurals/logs etc and now Parliament is stumping up cash for a trial use:



> The UK Parliament spent £17,000 (about $26,000) on a total of 34 iPads for official use this year.
> 
> Seventeen were bought for use by Commons staff, and another 17 for use by the Parliamentary Information and Communication Technology Service. The iPads were a mixture of versions 1 and 2, and wifi and 3G models.
> 
> ...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 23, 2011)

My vouchers came - I replaced my stolen touchpad with an iPad. It's my first I thingy and I'm not installing iTunes on my laptop, fuck that. The salesman said I would need guidance because it's my first Apple product :roll eyes:

It's lighter than the touchpad and has a metal case - my touchpad cracked after less than a weeks use.
It's much easier to type on than the touchpad (it kept mistyping and I had to go back and correct which is tedious) but I prefer the keyboard layout on the hp - because the numbers are on the same level as the letters, it's such a pain to toggle.

Some of the hp apps I had and liked were free - sky news and the guardian, but they are 4.99 a month on the iPad!

It was very easy  to set up, gmail, calendar, tasks etc all seamlessly just worked but how much small print was there to agree to, I mean!

I know I'm gonna miss the easy drag n drop for files that I had on the hp, but I can see there are plenty of work rounds for the iTunes haters.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

Sky news costs a fiver on the iPad?! It's free on the iPhone...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 23, 2011)

Yep, unless you got a subscription at home


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

That's very odd. You sure it's sky news and not the Sky Go app?


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

They must have changed to a subscription model, I know I used it for free in the past but when I look at the app description on iTunes now, it does indeed cost £4.99 per month for non-sky subscribers.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

Crazy, so I guess those of us that already have it get it free for the moment?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 23, 2011)

It's a fucker coz I did quite like it. I am a cheapskate, I just went to Poundland and got a screen protector and one of those transparent plastic bumper cases for two quid. When I next get to Tk maxx they've got the neoprene cases really cheap too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

Looks like the rumour mill is beginning to swirl again. This time it's on the idea of there being a new smaller iPad next year. Steve Jobs is well known for not liking the idea but he's dead and the company will move forward and pursue profit where ever the market takes them...that said an analyst doesn't think it'll happen.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2011)

The most bollocks rumour since the iPhone Mini.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The most bollocks rumour since the iPhone Mini.



You don't think Apple will ever do a 7 inch iPad?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2011)

Er, no, of course they won't.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Er, no, of course they won't.



What makes you so sure?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 23, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What makes you so sure?


means having to extend the IOS base in a format which it doesn't currently suit which would mean IOS 6 which would mean a lot of reprogramming of existing apps to work on all 3 formats.  At the moment all they need do is increase the screen size along the same dimensions but a baby pad would be different.

IE it's against the business interests of apple to do so as it increases overheads for no real discernible benefit they've got the market cornered and judging by the recent snaffoos with the kindel fire I think they will still hold on to it next year.

Ipad 3 will come out with better res screen better battery life and bigger storage and that'll be enough... why would they introduce a competitor to themselves?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What makes you so sure?


Because there's no reason to and even if there was it is absolutely not the sort of thing Apple does. They are all about hardware standardisation for consistent UI and that is one of their big advantages, and also necessities, as an end to end provider. It's not like Android where different companies can play with different sizes and if they fail it doesn't affect Android as a whole.

It's also purely based on the sort of lazy tech journalism that has never, ever been true - "oh company X is doing this therefore Apple has to as well or they'll fail". See also "Apple has to make a netbook", "Apple has to release a budget machine" etc etc.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 23, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's also purely based on the sort of lazy tech journalism that has never, ever been true - "oh company X is doing this therefore Apple has to as well or they'll fail". See also "Apple has to make a netbook", "Apple has to release a budget machine" etc etc.



tbf they did make a netbook what's the air if not a netbook...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> tbf they did make a netbook what's the air if not a netbook...


It's not a netbook - it costs way too much to be a netbook (also it has a full size keyboard and proper processor/graphics). It's just super-lightweight.

The netbook thing was when everybody was mad for netbooks and saying they were the future of computing, which mysteriously seems not to have happened.


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

There are a few reasons why I think they would not rule out a 7" for all eternity, but I don't really see it happening at the moment due primarily to issues with software & size of things on screen/to be touched.  The 'iPad 3 with much improved resolution' and 'keep the iPad 2 around but at a more affordable price' seem like reasonable bets for 2012.


----------



## Zabo (Dec 23, 2011)

They are missing a trick by not having a smaller size - I've said so from day one. The Kindle Fire and other smaller tablets will surely bite into their sales for those that don't want an all singing and dancing tablet. And there's the tablet competition from Asus and Samsung which ar taking big chunks out of their sales.

Given they were there at the forefront with the ipod and the iphone I find it quite surprising that they haven't re-jigged the ipod into a reader or made an iread.

They need to get off their arses and find out what people really want.


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

Why do they? Its not like their sales are dying is it, and as a company they have always favoured keeping a narrow line of uncompromised products rather than go chasing over every potential corner of every market. They will only diversify the range if they think their sales are seriously going to run out of steam at some point.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> Why do they? Its not like their sales are dying is it, and as a company they have always favoured keeping a narrow line of uncompromised products rather than go chasing over every potential corner of every market. They will only diversify the range if they think their sales are seriously going to run out of steam at some point.


Well - they do diversify, but only on their own terms, and certainly not because everybody else is doing it. That's core to their image and strategy.

If Apple make a 7" iPad that would say something really significant about a change in corporate direction for them, and I would sell my shares. The non-existent ones.


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

But even Jobs wasn't beyond u-turning if circumstances dictated it, so I wouldn't see a 7" iPad at some point in time as flying in the face of Jobs corporate philosophy. Just not yet.


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 23, 2011)

I'd be gobsmacked.


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

So would I, just saying that ever is a very long time and if at some point they needed such a model to maintain sales, I don't think they would have trouble u-turning. Personally I wouldn't want a tablet smaller than the current iPad, as any less screen space than that starts to eat into functional possibilities.


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

Also I had a bloody good laugh when I popped into Currys to get a Kindle for my mum and saw the array of tablets on offer, thinking back to the day of the iPad announcement when loads of people were moaning that it was 'just a giant iPod touch'.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> Also I had a bloody good laugh when I popped into Currys to get a Kindle for my mum and saw the array of tablets on offer, thinking back to the day of the iPad announcement when loads of people were moaning that it was 'just a giant iPod touch'.


I was thinking about that earlier too. Even I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't as much difference as I'd thought there would be, but I can definitely see how it makes sense now.

I was also finding it amusing how people used to say "the iPhone/Touch is way too big, there has to be an iPhone Mini" and now it's "the iPhone/Touch is way too small, there has to be a 7" version".


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

Can you remember any specifics about what you were disappointed about? At the time my main disappointment was in how everyone else was reacting, I was afraid it wouldn't take off and I was desperate to see tablets succeed.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> Can you remember any specifics about what you were disappointed about? At the time my main disappointment was in how everyone else was reacting, I was afraid it wouldn't take off and I was desperate to see tablets succeed.


It wasn't anything about the final result so much as that I'd spent a while thinking about how they might do some sort of vastly new tablet-scale interface with all new apps, and it turned out that it was basically the same interface as other iOS devices at a larger scale. But that's the point: consistency. (Also it isn't precisely the same interface, either - there are lots of little differences - it's just similar enough that it feels the same and there's no learning curve moving from an iPhone.)


----------



## elbows (Dec 23, 2011)

Ah I see, yeah I think I was hoping for something fancy & new in the UI department, although for the life of me I've no idea what that would actually have been. I do remember there were some bullshit rumours about a '3D' user interface before launch, so I probably got carried away with style over usability in my mind.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> There are a few reasons why I think they would not rule out a 7" for all eternity, but I don't really see it happening at the moment due primarily to issues with software & size of things on screen/to be touched. The 'iPad 3 with much improved resolution' and 'keep the iPad 2 around but at a more affordable price' seem like reasonable bets for 2012.



I'm not sure they'll do it in 2012 but I am convinced they will do it, I don't buy all this shit about Apple do this and that. The iPod mini and nano and even doing a 'hobby' device like Apple TV put paid to the idea that Apple won't deviate. If the market is there and if it's a threat to their market they'll jump on it.


----------



## paolo (Dec 30, 2011)

Anyone using their iPad with either the Digital AV adaptor, or Apple TV?

What I'm after is a way of using an iPad 2 to play BBC iPlayer through a TV (HDMI). My main concern is that it's full screen (no black bars), and quality is 'reasonable' (no worse than SD).

Any experiences?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 30, 2011)

Apple like to be first to market with innovation.

7"ers already exist so they wouldn't be first to market.

The air wasn't a netbook. It was a fuck me thats an impressive thin mobile computer that fits in an envelope.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like the rumour mill is beginning to swirl again.


Looks like you're doing more than your bit to keep it swirling pointlessly away too!

That's just a random mock up by some unrelated design company. They have nothing to do with Apple. It's all made up and utterly pointless.
You may as well draw something yourself because it'll be as accurate and as informative as their publicity-seeking scribble.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Apple like to be first to market with innovation.
> 
> 7"ers already exist so they wouldn't be first to market.
> 
> The air wasn't a netbook. It was a fuck me thats an impressive thin mobile computer that fits in an envelope.



Not sure that holds up, tablets existed long before the iPad. What Apple is good at is coming into a market with an exceptionally well marketed expensive device that has a slick UX for the mass market of people.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 31, 2011)

Ok - another app question, I had a great app on my touchpad which used gps and Wikipedia to give you load of interesting info about the area you are in - lots of history.  Have tried searching but can't find anything like it for the iPad. Unfortunately as my touchpad was swiped I can't remember what the app was called (there probably was an iPad equivalent) any ideas?


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 31, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> Ok - another app question, I had a great app on my touchpad which used gps and Wikipedia to give you load of interesting info about the area you are in - lots of history. Have tried searching but can't find anything like it for the iPad. Unfortunately as my touchpad was swiped I can't remember what the app was called (there probably was an iPad equivalent) any ideas?


Wikihood?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 31, 2011)

Excellent! Just what I wanted! Didn't come up in any search weirdly. Thanks!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 4, 2012)

Clear case of iRage.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 16, 2012)

iPad usage replacing laptops for work...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 16, 2012)

That only shows people who own ipads like to use them.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2012)

And the actual quotes that matter:


> The survey found that 12 percent of workers indicated that the iPad has "completely replaced" their traditional laptop





> The iPad has had less of an effect on desktop PCs, where just 6 percent of respondents said the iPad has "completely" replaced their desktop, while 33 percent said the iPad has "partly" replaced their desktop.





> "For most, the iPad isn't a substitute for an existing tool or device," IDG said. "Instead, it's a supplement, albeit one with functionality that overlaps with other devices. As a result, the iPad seems to have carved out a niche for itself at the partial expense of several rival form factors."


----------



## Crispy (Jan 16, 2012)

There's a pretty small set of jobs that could replace a regular computer with an iPad without harming productivity.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> There's a pretty small set of jobs that could replace a regular computer with an iPad without harming productivity.


Of course, but I'm not so sure that the economic argument for doing so is so persuasive in many of those cases though. If it's down to_ style_ though, then it's a total win for the iPad.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 16, 2012)

editor said:


> Of course, but I'm not so sure that the economic argument for doing so is so persuasive in many of those cases though. If it's down to_ style_ though, then it's a total win for the iPad.


"Fun" is also an argument to make


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 16, 2012)

From the file known as 'having your cake and eating it too' apparently Apple is now the worlds top PC vendor...if you include the iPad, a device that's been billed as er 'post pc'.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> "Fun" is also an argument to make


"Funnest", surely?


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> From the file known as 'having your cake and eating it too' apparently Apple is now the worlds top PC vendor...if you include the iPad, a device that's been billed as er 'post pc'.


You've linked to yet more dodgy data:



> Update: An IDC rep has weighed in on Whitmore’s chart: “It appears the Deutsche Bank analyst simply added Apple’s iPad shipment number onto the Apple total for Q3 to make his point (conveniently ignoring tablets made by other PC manufacturers, most notably Acer). And he also didn’t bother to add in iPad shipments over the previous quarters, leading to the rather distorted hockey stick on the end of the chart. Not exactly the best analysis or presentation of the data, in my opinion.”


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> "Fun" is also an argument to make



Indeed, if something is enjoyable to use it'll be more productive if used in a work environment because you won't be 'fighting' it to get things done.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed, if something is enjoyable to use it'll be more productive if used in a work environment because you won't be 'fighting' it to get things done.


I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make filling in my tax return any more "fun" or even "funner."

The best analysis about those iPad sales figures came from a reader comment, btw:


> What a horrendously illogical and flawed “analysis”.
> 
> - Let’s count the iPad as a PC, despite the fact that Apple *specifically* marketed it as being “post-PC” — i.e. NOT a PC.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 16, 2012)

I doubt as many iPad owners are self employed as you may think.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 17, 2012)

Got mine free from work.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jan 18, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Got mine free from work.


...but if they ever find out I've got it...?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> ...but if they ever find out I've got it...?


ssshhh Tottenham discount


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Got mine free from work.



Heh I'm angling to get work to get me one, they aint having it yet but reckon I might *just* be able to pull that off.


----------



## George & Bill (Jan 19, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make filling in my tax return any more "fun" or even "funner."
> 
> The best analysis about those iPad sales figures came from a reader comment, btw:



Except that typing speed on a tablet is probably about 80% of what you can do on a keyboard, whereas on a smartphone it might be 30% if you're good (ime). I'd happily have just a tablet for email, web, and a little basic word-processing (which is all lots of people use their pc for), no way I'd say that of my phone. Look at it another way and you can say the only difference between a pc and a smartphone for many users is that the former has a bigger screen and keyboard - well, so does a tablet!


----------



## sim667 (Jan 20, 2012)

I wouldnt have said that my typing speed is actually that much slower on an ipad, maybe 20%.... It gives me worse RSI though.

You can pair a bluetooth keyboard with an ipad though


----------



## George & Bill (Jan 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I wouldnt have said that my typing speed is actually that much slower on an ipad, maybe 20%.... It gives me worse RSI though.
> 
> You can pair a bluetooth keyboard with an ipad though



That's exactly what I said - typing on a tablet (at least, an iPad) is 80% as fast as on a keyboard.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 20, 2012)

I can type about fast on my iPhone as I can on a physical keyboard. The iPad keyboard isn't that bad really compared to some touch screen ones I've used...


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I can type about fast on my iPhone as I can on a physical keyboard.


You must be a terrible typist then.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2012)

Here's the kind of real world speeds most people will get:



http://www.pcworld.com/article/193505/ipad_vs_laptop_vs_netbook_vs_iphone_typing_test.html


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 20, 2012)

I get around 90 wpm on a keyboard, and around 60 with the onscreen keyboard on the iPad. On the iPhone I dread to think - I used to be faster than I am, but I'd be pushed to hit 30.

There is an interesting looking keyboard overlay somebody made that goes on iPad screens to allow more tactile typing - don't have the link at the moment but I'll post it at some point. Probably it will never get sold in the UK though.


----------



## bmd (Jan 20, 2012)

I find the iPad kb in landscape mode to be a bit rubbish for me. I keep hitting the n or m instead of the space bar. I woke up this morning with the answer; type in portrait mode. I must have been dreaming about it. Itmworksnreallymwell.

firstworldproblems.


----------



## George & Bill (Jan 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I can type about fast on my iPhone as I can on a physical keyboard. The iPad keyboard isn't that bad really compared to some touch screen ones I've used...



Do you have extmely small fingers?


----------



## George & Bill (Jan 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's the kind of real world speeds most people will get:
> 
> View attachment 16094
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/193505/ipad_vs_laptop_vs_netbook_vs_iphone_typing_test.html



I disagree that those are the speeds 'most people' would get with devices they have regularly used for a reasonable period - since, as it says in the piece, the tester had only been using some of the devices for a couple of days before doing the test. It took me a couple of weeks of regular iPad use to get up to the ~80% of keyboard speed that I reckon I can achieve now.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jan 20, 2012)

editor said:


> You must be a terrible tiger then.



grrrr rah grrrr ftt ftt...


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jan 20, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> ...There is an interesting looking keyboard overlay somebody made that goes on iPad screens to allow more tactile typing - don't have the link at the moment but I'll post it at some point. Probably it will never get sold in the UK though.



is that the Touchfire you're on about?  Kickstarter funded rubber overlay thing - tactile keyboard for ipads
I was reading about them last week
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/740785012/touchfire-the-screen-top-keyboard-for-ipad


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 20, 2012)

Throbbing Angel said:


> is that the Touchfire you're on about?  Kickstarter funded rubber overlay thing - tactile keyboard for ipads
> I was reading about them last week
> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/740785012/touchfire-the-screen-top-keyboard-for-ipad


Yep. I saw that when it was first up on Kickstarter last year, but I thought the international charges were a bit much given that I had no idea how well it would work at all.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 20, 2012)

Interesting the disparity between the numbers of people using iPads for work and the number of them getting them supplied by work.

Reading the article above it talks about 'enterprise users' so one assumes they don't mean the sorts of contractors who don't get supplied with a work PC.

Implies a lot of people are supporting their employer's stock price out of their own pocket, possibly due to shitty ancient work-supplied machines that take 20mins to boot from sleep.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 20, 2012)

slowjoe said:


> Do you have extmely small fingers?



Nope just used to it now...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I can type about fast on my iPhone as I can on a physical keyboard. The iPad keyboard isn't that bad really compared to some touch screen ones I've used...


My touchpad was impossible to type on, my ipad is great to type on, surprised that theres so much difference in one touchscreen compared to another.
I dont think id bother with a separate keyboard its that good. I am using it increasingly for work, the only thing i cant do on it is detailed illustrator or photoshop work. I did an overnight trip abroad this week, took only a small backpack, any tablet is perfect for short trips like that. Ive also put several pdf portfolios on there. The main reason i wanted a tablet in the first place was for reading digital magazines - paper ones take too much room up and hurt my back with weight of carrying them around. I already had several digital subscriptions and one by one the publishers have brought out ipad apps. Its great coz i can download them and do my research wherever i happen to be - its made me more productive, definitely.
Ive started using evernote and dropbox so that i dont forget certain files from my laptop. 
And yes im self employed so i buy my own kit. Not extravagently though, i expect a laptop to last a min of 4 years, but i dont buy cheap crap either.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jan 21, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> My touchpad was impossible to type on, my ipad is great to type on, surprised that theres so much difference in one touchscreen compared to another.
> I dont think id bother with a separate keyboard its that good. I am using it increasingly for work, the only thing i cant do on it is detailed illustrator or photoshop work. I did an overnight trip abroad this week, took only a small backpack, any tablet is perfect for short trips like that. Ive also put several pdf portfolios on there. The main reason i wanted a tablet in the first place was for reading digital magazines - paper ones take too much room up and hurt my back with weight of carrying them around. I already had several digital subscriptions and one by one the publishers have brought out ipad apps. Its great coz i can download them and do my research wherever i happen to be - its made me more productive, definitely.
> Ive started using evernote and dropbox so that i dont forget certain files from my laptop.
> And yes im self employed so i buy my own kit. Not extravagently though, i expect a laptop to last a min of 4 years, but i dont buy cheap crap either.


My main difficulty with this has been needing a laptop (at conferences) for Powerpoint, because the facilities haven't had HDMI connectors for an iPad / keynote display (controlled remotely by iPod, obv ).


----------



## elbows (Jan 22, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> My main difficulty with this has been needing a laptop (at conferences) for Powerpoint, because the facilities haven't had HDMI connectors for an iPad / keynote display (controlled remotely by iPod, obv ).



You can get a VGA adaptor http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MC552


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 23, 2012)

Has anyone subscribed to the Focus magazine app through Busubscriptions.com?  I have and my login details won't work!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 23, 2012)

This is very cool!


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2012)

Really?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 24, 2012)

Yup. Just shows with a little imagination you can work past the obvious design constraints of a tablet.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup. Just shows with a little imagination you can work past the obvious design constraints of a tablet.


Looks like a pretty pointless visual gimmick to me.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 24, 2012)

Being able to hold one page, while skimming through with the other finger looks kind of useful.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Being able to hold one page, while skimming through with the other finger looks kind of useful.


Still looks like pointless eye-candy gimmickry, but each to their own.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 24, 2012)

The functionality, I mean. Being able to hold your page, then flip back or forward a few pages to check something, is something you can do easily with paper books, but it's clumsy with ebooks. This seems like a nice way of doing it. The rest of the demo I don't really care for.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 24, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The functionality, I mean. Being able to hold your page, then flip back or forward a few pages to check something, is something you can do easily with paper books, but it's clumsy with ebooks. This seems like a nice way of doing it. The rest of the demo I don't really care for.



Yup, it's very neat that people are actively thinking this stuff through...


----------



## mrs quoad (Jan 25, 2012)

Oop!

iMame emulator appeared, was around for approx 3 weeks, & now seems to've disappeared!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 25, 2012)

mrs quoad said:
			
		

> Oop!
> 
> iMame emulator appeared, was around for approx 3 weeks, & now seems to've disappeared!



Apparently that's a regular occurrence. An emulator will appear and then further down the line will be gone again. I suppose you just have to have your eyes peeled and check regularly if you want one.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 26, 2012)

After much indecision and soul searching I finally gave in and got an iPad.

One thing though; has Prey been removed from ITunes and if so, why?

Not gonna feel half as confident out and about with it without that semi-safety net.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 26, 2012)

Prey?


----------



## electroplated (Jan 26, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> After much indecision and soul searching I finally gave in and got an iPad.
> 
> One thing though; has Prey been removed from ITunes and if so, why?
> 
> Not gonna feel half as confident out and about with it without that semi-safety net.



I know it's not exactly the same thing but you can still track it / lock it / wipe it remotely using iCloud.com...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 26, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Prey?



Smart anti-theft tracking software that takes photos of whoever has your kit, takes screen grabs of whatever they're looking at and betrays their location by using nearby wifi connections and emailing you a little map with an arrow on it. Or something.

There was a thread with all this happening at Christmas time which has since been shuffled away from view presumably for upcoming court case purposes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> After much indecision and soul searching I finally gave in and got an iPad.
> 
> One thing though; has Prey been removed from ITunes and if so, why?
> 
> Not gonna feel half as confident out and about with it without that semi-safety net.



Not heard anything about it being removed. It's not as good but at least you still have the option of using the find my ipad feature on icloud.com to locate, lock and remote wipe it should you misplace it.


----------



## elbows (Jan 26, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> After much indecision and soul searching I finally gave in and got an iPad.
> 
> One thing though; has Prey been removed from ITunes and if so, why?
> 
> Not gonna feel half as confident out and about with it without that semi-safety net.



Looking at their twitter feed it looks like they submitted a new version to the app store a couple of days ago, and its unclear that its available to everyone yet as there are some people asking why they can't see it on their countries store and they are being told to wait a little bit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 30, 2012)

How ironic!

Wisconsin uses Microsoft settlement funds to buy iPads for schools​


> *The capital of Wisconsin is buying 600 iPads this spring and plans to buy another 800 this fall, all paid for using funds from the state's settlement with Microsoft related to consumer lawsuits claiming the company overcharged customers for its software.*
> 
> Bill Smojver, Madison's director of technical services for the school district, *told* the _Wisconsin State Journal_that the tablets are cheaper, more portable and easier to use than conventional computers.
> 
> Smojver added that the new iPads will enable students to wirelessly share their work and enable schools to replace textbooks with digital apps or ebooks, referring to Apple's *recent announcement* related to iBooks 2, iBooks Author and digital textbooks as a "significant development."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 6, 2012)

iPad2 set to be introduced to House of Commons after committee clears their use for MPs, bulk buying hoped to bring discount.




> Every single MP could be issued with an iPad-style tablet computer at a cost of up to £325,000 after an influential cross-party committee backed the idea.​​More than a dozen members have been testing Apple's devices over the past year as part of proposals to modernise Parliament and save printing costs.​And the House’s cross-party Administration Committee has now recommended the 'rapid roll-out of suitable mobile tablet hardware' to all 650 MPs.​However, the taxpayer would have to fork out £324,350 to kit them all out with the latest iPad 2 tablets at the retail price of £499 each, not including data subscription costs.​


​They shouldn't need a 3G iPad2, much easier to blanket the Palace of Westminster with a high speed wifi network...


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 6, 2012)

Our Mp's being holed up in Apple's walled garden has a certain appeal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 8, 2012)

United States Air Force plan purchase of up to 18,000 iPads for flight bag replacements. Ipad is certainly getting into to some interesting areas. The thing with these moves is it means the device will be embedded for some years to come as decisions to go that route aren't usually reversed in the medium term...



> Back in December of last year the first commercial airline pilots began taking iPads into cockpits as a replacement to the traditional flight bag. This followed the FAA’s initial approval and testing of the device. Now, a recent report from _Nextgov _(via _TabTimes)_ claimed The United States Air Force’s Air Mobility Command plans to purchase up to 18,000 iPads. The proof comes from a notice posted on the Federal Business Opprtunities website that claimed the AMC planned to buy “a minimum of 63 and a maximum of 18,000″ iPad 2s.
> 
> While the notice did mention iPad 2 or equivalent devices, _Nextgov _pointed out the Air Force Special Operations Command announced back in January it planned on purchasing 2,861 iPads 2s as flight bag replacements. The devices will be used by the crews on C-5 Galaxy and C-17 Globemaster aircrafts. Although AMC plans on issuing  a propsoal to purchase the tablets at the lowest, fixed cost possible, Lt. Col. Glen Roberts noted the AMC “is looking for a tablet device, not necessarily an iPad.”


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 9, 2012)

iPad 3 coming in March: http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...docId=CNG.ffd77c3e6a6bcbb1ba734e27e6398bc1.81


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2012)

No surprise, let me speculate and say it'll be quad core, better battery and have a retina screen.


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 9, 2012)

And perhaps a two-tier purchase option with the current model being kept in production perhaps slightly cheaper to take on the Fire and its like.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

w00t i'm getting one, my Ipad is fucking me off now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> And perhaps a two-tier purchase option with the current model being kept in production perhaps slightly cheaper to take on the Fire and its like.


 
Yeah I can see them selling the 16gb wifi iPad2 cheaply (£279?) to offset the Kindle Fire effect...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> w00t i'm getting one, my Ipad is fucking me off now.


 
What's wrong with it?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's wrong with it?


 
phantom touches....

not always but now and then, fucking does my head in.... new screen is £50 or something, plus need to get it fitted.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2012)

I've only just bought my ipad 2!


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 10, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I've only just bought my ipad 2!


What'd you but it now for when the new one is due out soon?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> What'd you but it now for when the new one is due out soon?


 
Um, because I was unaware?


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 10, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Um, because I was unaware?


But it was obvious the new one would be out soon, because the previous 2 came out at the same time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 10, 2012)

There's no point waiting for this sort of thing - you just have to go out and buy it when you want it and have the money, unless you 100% know there will be some announcement next week.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 10, 2012)

There is if the new one's probably going to come out soon.  Apple have been pretty consistent with their release schedule (iPhone 4s aside).


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2012)

Anyway, I'll buy another and my gf can have this.  Unless by coming out 'now' people actually mean 'in about 3 months from now' ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2012)

6 weeks at the top end I'd bet.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 10, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyway, I'll buy another and my gf can have this.  Unless by coming out 'now' people actually mean 'in about 3 months from now' ...


At times like this, I wish Artichoke didn't look on technology with utter disdain.

As it is, I've got fuck all excuse for an iPad 3, and tbh we'll probably've bred by the time the iPad 4 comes out. And there's no way I'd wangle it past the budget once we had a shared account.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 13, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> At times like this, I wish Artichoke didn't look on technology with utter disdain.
> 
> As it is, I've got fuck all excuse for an iPad 3, and tbh we'll probably've bred by the time the iPad 4 comes out. And there's no way I'd wangle it past the budget once we had a shared account.



Well it's a long distance relationship (only see each other at weekends or when I'm on leave) so the benefits of having Skype etc are easily sold to her.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Feb 13, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> At times like this, I wish Artichoke didn't look on technology with utter disdain.
> 
> As it is, I've got fuck all excuse for an iPad 3, and tbh we'll probably've bred by the time the iPad 4 comes out. And there's no way I'd wangle it past the budget once we had a shared account.


yeah cos an Ipad 5 would be out by then and everyone would need one for school as a mandatory item...


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 13, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yeah cos an Ipad 5 would be out by then and everyone would need one for school as a mandatory item...


Kindergarten by 2013.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Feb 13, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Kindergarten by 2013.


k so by the time they're at what gcse level which will be 5 years time then as we're on ipad 3 we'll be upto ipad 8 or 9 by then....


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 14, 2012)

Interesting - Play are selling 16gb iPad 2s for £370 today.

One day sale, but it's the first time I've seen them discounted...


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 14, 2012)

There's a 16gb refurb iP2 on Apple's site for £339


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 14, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Interesting - Play are selling 16gb iPad 2s for £370 today.
> 
> One day sale, but it's the first time I've seen them discounted...



Clearing out stock ahead of the new model then...


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Clearing out stock ahead of the new model then...


A move in that direction, at least...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 17, 2012)

Yep...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 19, 2012)

iPad raising literacy scores in the classroom?



> Apple began its full assault on education when it launched the iPad a few years ago. The iPad offers students apps and books that are used in the classroom to help students raise their test scores. While it is still on the way to seeing a larger adoption, Applealso introduced iBooksin January to help more in education, but how effective is the iPad in student learning?
> 
> To put some numbers behind the education work Apple is doing, _The Loop _profiled a report based off a study done throughout a Maine school district that indicated the iPad is improving kindergartner’s literacy scores.
> 
> The school district in Auburn, Maine assigned 16 iPads to a classroom of 16 kindergartens over a 9-week period. A total of 236 students were given literacy test before the 9-week testing period for the iPad began. Over the 9 week period, 129 students were taught using an iPad, while 137 students were taught the old fashion way. The school district found that students using an iPad out-performed students not using an iPad in every literacy test by a significant margin.


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2012)

I wonder if literacy at kindergartens would be just as improved if all that cash spent on shiny gadgets went on teachers instead.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 19, 2012)

maldwyn said:
			
		

> There's a 16gb refurb iP2 on Apple's site for £339



Refurbed 64gb wifi only one on currys site for £350.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 19, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Refurbed 64gb wifi only one on currys site for £350.



That's pretty damn good...tempting!


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 19, 2012)

But it'll be outdated junk in a few weeks.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 19, 2012)

editor said:


> I wonder if literacy at kindergartens would be just as improved if all that cash spent on shiny gadgets went on teachers instead.



Wow you're a right slave driver! Putting aside 2nd, 3rd and possibly 4th year use for each iPad you're condoning paying £12,000 (£400 x 30 kids) for a teacher! 

"Cut teachers pay in half demands net guru."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 19, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> But it'll be outdated junk in a few weeks.



Well not quite, it'll still be the best tablet on the market even then.


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wow you're a right slave driver! Putting aside 2nd, 3rd and possibly 4th year use for each iPad you're condoning paying £12,000 (£400 x 30 kids) for a teacher!


Do all the apps, repairs, replacements,  insurance and teacher training for the iPads come for free then? And like fuck will they last four years of kindergarten use.


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well not quite, it'll still be the best tablet on the market even then.


Small children don't need 'the best' tablet available. A cheaper alternative will do the job every bit as well.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 19, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's pretty damn good...tempting!



£300 for a 32gig refurb on currys' site although they appear to have none in stock. Not surprising at that price really. There does seem to be a difference though with the refurb having A4 chips running iOS 4 and the new ones having an A5 chip running iOS 5. No idea how much of a difference that makes.

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/apple-ipad/149_3402_32003_xx_xx/xx-criteria.html


----------



## Crispy (Feb 19, 2012)

The A4 model is the ipad 1. The A5 is the ipad 2. Big difference.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 19, 2012)

So it is. Doh! 

Ignore those exciting deals people.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> iPad raising literacy scores in the classroom?


Find me one non-independently-evaluated, well-resourced, intensive pilot project that doesn't show a significant benefit and I'll show you some congenial surprise.

Pilot projects produce results.

Intensive pilot projects produce GOOD results.

Non-independent evaluations produce GOOD results.

Non-independent evaluations of intensive pilot projects involving *surprise* bonus resourcing of shiny gadgets... almost couldn't fail to show good results.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Small children don't need 'the best' tablet available. A cheaper alternative will do the job every bit as well.


Fully interactive slate / chalk / child assemblies now fully available from leading market retailers:






Child not included.

Shown to improve literacy significantly in 12 kindergarten classes, when compared to 12 kindergarten classes bereft of slates and all slate tablet equivalents.

e2a: wasn't the iPad originally slated to come out as the iSlate  or something 

e2a2: http://gizmodo.com/5434085/apple-owns-islatecom-domain-the-mystery-deepens


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Fully interactive slate / chalk / child assemblies now fully available from leading market retailers:


Lasts longer than four years (more like 40), no electricity needed, near indestructible, proven track record, no additional payments needed etc etc.

But hang on - see those rounded corners, flat black central surface and uncluttered bezel? I bet Apple's lawyers are on the case already to nuke this copycat iPad design off the earth.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Lasts longer than four years (more like 40), no electricity needed, near indestructible, proven track record, no additional payments needed etc etc.
> 
> But hang on - see those rounded corners, flat black central surface and uncluttered bezel? I bet Apple's lawyers are on the case already to nuke this copycat iPad design off the earth.


Similarly, oral tradition cuts down an absolute tonne on the cost and maintenance of fripperous textbooks.


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Similarly, oral tradition cuts down an absolute tonne on the cost and maintenance of fripperous textbooks.


Bit hard for algebra though.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 20, 2012)

"In the surprise findings of a study published today, Alabama state revealed that 12 classes of kindergarten children taught by oral tradition performed better across all measures of development than 12 classes of children who no-one had spoken to for a year."


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> "In the surprise findings of a study published today, Alabama state revealed that 12 classes of kindergarten children taught by oral tradition performed better across all measures of development than 12 classes of children who no-one had spoken to for a year."


You're going a bit surreal for me now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 20, 2012)

Useful for those who want MS office docs on their iPad:








> Following its launch in the U.S. back in January, CloudOn has finally arrived in the U.K., allowing British users to access Microsoft Office applications on their iPad. The free app lets you view, edit, and create Word, Excel, and PowerPoint documents on your tablet, which can then be saved directly to your Dropbox account.
> 
> 
> You can also access the documents have already have stored in Dropbox and edit these, too. You must have a Dropbox account to use the service, but it’s completely free.
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 21, 2012)

Don't bother. Office for real will be with us soon: Microsoft Office for iPad expected in coming weeks


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 21, 2012)

Doubt I'll bother with that either tbh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Don't bother. Office for real will be with us soon: Microsoft Office for iPad expected in coming weeks


 
We sure that's going to be good?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> We sure that's going to be good?


No idea. But wise to hold off purchasing an alternative until we know.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2012)

Apparently this is the iPad 3:


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 21, 2012)

That's the most boring fake iPad I've seen.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 21, 2012)

Wow.

Doubt it's fake though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2012)

Yeah I don't think it's fake, it's apparently a little thicker than the iPad 2 but apart from that it seems the screen is the big deal this time. Be interesting to see if they keep the battery life as good...


----------



## editor (Feb 21, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Don't bother. Office for real will be with us soon: Microsoft Office for iPad expected in coming weeks


Or maybe not:


> A rumor that Microsoft is releasing an iPad version of its Office software was all over the Web on Tuesday. But Microsoft says it’s just not true.
> 
> The buzz was kicked off by an article in The Daily, an iPad-based news publication. It said that a Microsoft Office app for the iPad would soon be submitted to Apple for approval and could be released in “the coming weeks.”
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2012)

Heh that's some non denial denial.


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## editor (Feb 23, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> United States Air Force plan purchase of up to 18,000 iPads for flight bag replacements. Ipad is certainly getting into to some interesting areas. The thing with these moves is it means the device will be embedded for some years to come as decisions to go that route aren't usually reversed in the medium term...


They've just cancelled the whole deal.

They're now exploring the possibility of integrating mobile software via custom Android phones.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2012)

Yeah they won in China today too:



> Apple in 2009 snatched rights to the iPad trademark in 10 different countries from Proview’s Taiwanese affiliate for about $55,000, including rights to market the iPad in China. The iPad maker secretly founded a United Kingdom-based firm to get trademarks so that Proview would not know at the time that Apple was the purchaser.


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## audiotech (Feb 23, 2012)

That iPad 3 comparison? No full shot? A smaller 7" tablet cunningly disguised?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2012)

audiotech said:


> That iPad 3 comparison? No full shot? A smaller 7" tablet cunningly disguised?


 
I always wonder if they really get their hands on the actual device why the crappy photos and not a proper set of comparisons?


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 23, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I always wonder if they really get their hands on the actual device why the crappy photos and not a proper set of comparisons?


They don't ever get their hands on the actual device. Well, unless they steal it from somebody in a bar.


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## audiotech (Feb 23, 2012)

Part of the drip, drip hype, until the climax for the applelets.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Part of the drip, drip hype, until the climax for the applelets.


 
Yep, I've pretty much come to the conclusion a fair amount of this stuff is just Apple pr playing itself out...


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## editor (Feb 23, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They don't ever get their hands on the actual device. Well, unless they steal it from somebody in a bar.


They usually just make it all up because there's no shortage of Apple fans who will happily scoop up any old bollocks churned out by ad-revenue, story-manufacturing seeking tech sites.


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## pinkmonkey (Feb 23, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, I've pretty much come to the conclusion a fair amount of this stuff is just Apple pr playing itself out...


 
It's about as interesting as a staged paparazzi shot of an ex Big Brother celebrity.  So flogged to death now it's just boring.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> It's about as interesting as a staged paparazzi shot of an ex Big Brother celebrity. So flogged to death now it's just boring.


 
Yup but the link baiters love it, drive traffic like nothing else...


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## editor (Feb 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah they won in China today too:


Proview aren't taking Apple's sneaky actions too well:


> Proview Electronics Co. has taken its legal battles with Apple Inc. to a U.S. court, claiming the iPhone maker used deception in buying the iPad trademark and shouldn't be allowed to keep it.
> 
> The lawsuit, which was filed in the Superior Court of the State of California in Santa Clara County on Feb. 17, but previously unreported, claimed that Apple had committed fraud when it used a company set up by one of its law firms, called IP Application Development Ltd., to purchase the iPad trademark from Proview on Dec. 23, 2009 for 35,000 British pounds ($55,000).
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203918304577240790926896520.html


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2012)

Waaah poor little company...heh I doubt many in Apple give a shit tbh. This is probably just seen as the cost of doing business...


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## elbows (Feb 24, 2012)

As far as I can tell Proview are essentially dormant, not making anything, and have just tried to use this trademark stuff to get some revenue. Fuck them.


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## elbows (Feb 24, 2012)

Seen the pictures of Proviews factory?

http://photos.caixin.com/2012-02-16/100357151.html


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 24, 2012)

I seem to remember something about them having been bought by a selection of investment companies after having gone out of business, who are now trolling with their IP (or, claims to IP - Apple say they bought the rights to the name iPad, and Proview are now saying otherwise).

Comically, what they sold as an "iPAD" was basically a would-be clone of the iMac, and came out in the same year.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2012)

elbows said:


> As far as I can tell Proview are essentially dormant, not making anything, and have just tried to use this trademark stuff to get some revenue. Fuck them.



Yup.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2012)

So March 7 is the date of the iPad 3 event, plus something more if rumours are to be believed...


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## maldwyn (Feb 28, 2012)

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-announced-on-7th-march.289592/#post-10958987

Looks like we have a new iPad3 thread


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2012)

Wow, it's a new age on urban75 where you can have more than one thread about Apple without a couple of trolls complaining, yay!


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The desktop companion app is a bit pants though.
> 
> That 123D Sculpt is fantastic btw. I got a similar app a while back, but this is far superior. Much nicer control over the shape. Although, like quoad, I want more resolution! Fiddly detail like ears and eyes ends up a bit jaggy.


Old post, but I was playing with some of my old mesh apps and discovered that 123DSculpt has grown an export option to OBJ. Costs £6.99 but if you are actually going to use an object you need that. I can definitely see myself using it for simple game objects, for instance, and then rigging them in Blender if need be.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 16, 2012)

Hm, okay, maybe not so great for rapid prototyping - the spherical face thing I tested just now is about 50,000 tris  I think some optimisation might be needed.


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## elbows (Sep 16, 2012)

Use the decimate modifier in blender, or some other form of retopology operation. Its been a while since I did this but if I remember correctly it was quick & easy enough that it didnt totally defeat the purpose of knocking stuff up swiftly in a sculpting app.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 16, 2012)

Yeah, that was what I was trying this morning, but it seems to mess up the texturing. I read that there was a script that did a better job but it appears not to have been converted to the version of python that Blender 2.6 uses. Still, retexturing in Blender is not a huge chore.


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## zenie (Sep 19, 2012)

Worth jail breaking? I download a lot and don't know how to get my films and music on here or if I should just use some kind of cloud based thingummy? iPad 3 but only 16gb


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## Crispy (Sep 19, 2012)

zenie said:


> Worth jail breaking? I download a lot and don't know how to get my films and music on here or if I should just use some kind of cloud based thingummy? iPad 3 but only 16gb


There are many apps that let you play all the popular video formats. AVPlayer, BUZZ Player, GoodPlayer to name but three. Each will come with instructions on how to load stuff on.


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## zenie (Sep 19, 2012)

Crispy said:


> There are many apps that let you play all the popular video formats. AVPlayer, BUZZ Player, GoodPlayer to name but three. Each will come with instructions on how to load stuff on.



Thanks mate will take a look - I just spent wasted an hour reading the iPad thread as well 

Am specifically wondering whether all my content has to be paid for in order to be played on the iPad?


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## elbows (Sep 19, 2012)

zenie said:


> Thanks mate will take a look - I just spent wasted an hour reading the iPad thread as well
> 
> Am specifically wondering whether all my content has to be paid for in order to be played on the iPad?


 
No, thankfully we havent reached that level of device control-freakery yet. You are not limited to videos you have purchased.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2012)

It's an extremely persistent myth though - it was about the original iPod too, at least after the iTunes Store started, despite it basically being a music piracy machine.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

zenie said:


> Worth jail breaking? I download a lot and don't know how to get my films and music on here or if I should just use some kind of cloud based thingummy? iPad 3 but only 16gb


Do you mean without *ever* syncing via a computer?

That's where your post was looking a bit tricky to me.

iTunes Match is expensive - £22 p/a - but'd allow you to access any music you own, irrespective of where you bought it, anywhere, and any time.

Unless it's an hour-long mix ripped from a late '90s tape, in which case (IME) it gets a bit arsey.

Erm. Also, I think FM and me have both got it.

I think neither of us really use it.

It *has* spared me bollocksing up my laptop with music, which I probably would've done without Match. But, erm, I'm still not using it a great deal. Don't think I've used it once on my iPad.


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## zenie (Sep 19, 2012)

I haven't synced it to my laptop yet as I hate iTunes but i don't suppose there's any getting round that really and I'll have to download it? 

I download a lot of films and music from torrent sites and I always (wrongly) assumed you couldn't put stuff in iTunes without paying for it 

Is there an iPad for idiots guide?


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## Crispy (Sep 19, 2012)

Just ask questions here 
You only /need/ iTunes to sync music. So I'm afraid you'll have to get used to that. I find I don't want or need any music on mine anyway. I have a handful of mixes but no more. You could get away without any.

If you've got lots of video media on your home computer, you can stream it direct to the iPad by installing Serviio on the computer and AirPlayer on the iPad.


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## zenie (Sep 19, 2012)

But I guess your home computer has to be on? Which is a bit of a pain as my main machine is a lappy which I don't tend to leave on when I'm out.  

I've read about using dropbox to hold my movie files, though I think they'll be a bit big. Will look into it. 

I'd also like to know of a sub 75 quid speaker dock that's alright if anyone knows of one.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2012)

Don't buy a speaker dock. Get speakers with a standard jack input.


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Don't buy a speaker dock. Get speakers with a standard jack input.


So this


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## zenie (Sep 20, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Don't buy a speaker dock. Get speakers with a standard jack input.



Oh ok 

Been playing around with Siri this morning it's pretty good 

Should I be posting this on the other thread?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

DJ for iPad is apparently on sale at the moment. 75% off I believe...


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## pesh (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> DJ for iPad is apparently on sale at the moment. 75% off I believe...


the audio outputs have been updated in ios6 as well apparently... you can now send a stereo cue to the headphone jack and a stereo mix out to the dock connector so no more shonky mono split cables



> Multi-channel and multi-route audio, new to iOS 6, means that djay can do independent stereo output to both the headphone jack, as well as via an HDMI or USB audio out adapter for the dock or lightning connector. That means users can pre-cue their creations in djay on their headphone, before sending them out live over the other connection to their audience. That’s a significant addition to the app, and one that makes it much more suitable for live use at venues or events.




http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/25/dj...-ios-6-now-includes-itunes-store-integration/


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## editor (Sep 29, 2012)

That's rather handy. If I was ever to start using a tablet for DJing (and I don't think that''s likely to happen any time soon), I think the iPad is the only way to go right now.


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## elbows (Sep 29, 2012)

Yeah, music creation apps for the ipad is the one area that has consistently impressed me and where tablet app development seems to be marching along at the sort of pace we might hope for.

For those looking to collaborate using multiple devices, or use multiple devices singlehandedly, the list of apps that support Korgs WIST (Wireless sync-start technology) is not too bad these days:

http://www.korguser.net/wist/

Things like the Auria 48 track DAW further help the iPad to move beyond the realm of 'toy'.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

pesh said:


> the audio outputs have been updated in ios6 as well apparently... you can now send a stereo cue to the headphone jack and a stereo mix out to the dock connector so no more shonky mono split cables
> 
> 
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/25/dj...-ios-6-now-includes-itunes-store-integration/



Cool! Yeah it's £2.99 at the mo, which is a great price!


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## mack (Nov 28, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Don't bother. Office for real will be with us soon: Microsoft Office for iPad expected in coming weeks



This hasn't happened yet has it? 

Anyway I need an app for the missus Ipad that can open and edit MS excel (simple spreadsheets/time sheets etc.) + word docs, what's recommended?


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## Lazy Llama (Nov 28, 2013)

Apple's Pages and Numbers would do that. 

Not sure how well Numbers handles Excel macros which might be used by the time sheets.


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 28, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Apple's Pages and Numbers would do that.
> 
> Not sure how well Numbers handles Excel macros which might be used by the time sheets.



Compatibility checklist here:

http://www.apple.com/uk/ios/numbers/compatibility/


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## Fez909 (Nov 28, 2013)

Try QuickOffice? It's free, no might save you a few quid.


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## mack (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks will give those both a try - the excel stuff really is just a basic grid with names and days so it shouldn't be a problem.


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## Winot (Nov 30, 2013)

mack said:


> Thanks will give those both a try - the excel stuff really is just a basic grid with names and days so it shouldn't be a problem.



Have a look at CloudOn too.


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