# I want your cash



## derf (Jul 23, 2008)

Just to get the people up to speed that have not jet seen the "Good or bad" thread.
I live in Indonesia with my wife and little baby girl.
A few months ago we employed a 13 year old girl as a maid. Her family is poor and are unable to send her to school. (You have to pay here after 13).
I got a hammering from a few about employingf a kid including a silly "sucky suck, fucky fucky" comment from on foolish person.
The long and the short is that it is possible for her education to continue up to 18 if the cash is in place.
So I've worked it out and it would cost about a thousand quid to get her through school for the next five years. (including uniform, books etc)
Just a year or two would be a waste of time so I would need the lot to send her back to live at home and get her the education she needs.

The question is are the heros who have a pop at me willing to stump up the cash and put their money where their mouths are?


I await your answers.


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## rennie (Jul 23, 2008)

in short, no.


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## Chairman Meow (Jul 23, 2008)

I'd rather channel my charitable donations through more regular methods. Why don't you sponsor her? After all her wages are low aren't they?


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## zenie (Jul 23, 2008)

Really roughtly that's 4 pounds a week, can't you pay it yourself?


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## derf (Jul 24, 2008)

rennie said:


> in short, no.



That's about what I expected.
High minded ideals but sod all chance of putting your money where your mouth is.
Her wages are low by UK standards but OK by local standards. There are teachers here that get paid about the same.
As for my cash, I have no income here so the dosh has to last a very long time and if I give it all away I won't be eating myself or feeding my wife and baby.
So much for the lefty types and sharing the cash so that others less fortunate have a chance.
I'll stick to capitalism thanks. At least I can be honest about my ideals instead of bleating on but falling down when given the chance to show my politics in action.
"4 legs good, 2 legs better" said a pig.


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## scifisam (Jul 24, 2008)

You're asking strangers on the internet to stump up money for a girl whose existence they have no evidence for, despite being able to pay for it yourself (since you can afford to employ her, you must be able to afford to pay £4 a week for her education if you care about it), and you're shocked that people aren't offering to send you money?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 24, 2008)

i think you may well do better  by making it a little easyer...

set up  website  which you can do for free  put in a donate via paypal which you can also do for free  and some google ads which you can also do 

then do a bit of a write up  and see what  comes in

you can also  do some phots etc  get people a bit more involved than just   a paragraph asking for a large lump sum


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## scifisam (Jul 24, 2008)

Shippou-Chan said:


> i think you may well do better  by making it a little easyer...
> 
> set up  website  which you can do for free  put in a donate via paypal which you can also do for free  and some google ads which you can also do
> 
> ...



Though he'd have to ask the girl if she were willing for all that to happen first. And it might be better to approach any educational organisations which pay for scholarships before appealing to the internet. 

But this thread isn't actually about helping the girl, is it? It's about having a dig at some people on here. (Not me, FTR).


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 24, 2008)

oh of course...  just if your looking to get people to donate online  that would probably be the way to go....  unless you post on millionaire-philanthropists.com


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## Detroit City (Jul 24, 2008)

derf said:


> I await your answers.


fuck off


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## derf (Jul 24, 2008)

scifisam said:


> But this thread isn't actually about helping the girl, is it? It's about having a dig at some people on here. (Not me, FTR).



Not so much having a go at people but out to show that some are able to have a go at someone and a system they know sod all about but are quick to offer a "fuck off" when they are givien the chance to do something with their ideals.
There are scholarships available here but not locally and there is no easy transport to where they are. I have asked around in the schools where I do a little free teaching but nothing is available.

If I pay to send her to school I would not be able to afford a maid and that would be bugger all use to us. I don't have the social morality that some here claim. I want to employ someone to make my wife's life easier and this girl fits the bill. As it happens I have made thigs better for her by giving her good food and a clean place to sleep along with a far improved wage than she had before.
That's as far as it goes. I am not called Mr Oxfam.
It would be better for her to return to full time education but the reality is that unless someone pays there is no chance at all.


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## derf (Jul 24, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> fuck off



I love you and want to have your babies.


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## Jessiedog (Jul 24, 2008)

derf said:


> If I pay to send her to school I would not be able to afford a maid
> 
> I want to employ someone to make my wife's life easier
> 
> It would be better for her to return to full time education but the reality is that unless someone pays there is no chance at all.



Says everything.




Woof


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## derf (Jul 24, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> Says everything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You missed "I don't have the social morality that some here claim"

At least I admit it.


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## scifisam (Jul 24, 2008)

You can't afford £4 pw?

And you did read the rest of my post, yes? Nobody is going to offer to send money to you on the basis of your OP.


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## derf (Jul 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> You can't afford £4 pw?
> 
> And you did read the rest of my post, yes? Nobody is going to offer to send money to you on the basis of your OP.



This isn't the UK and no I can't.
I could have spent all the cash I have keeping my wife's mother alive or paying for treatment for her cousin who is now dead.
I could spend it sending the local poor to school or paying for cataract (Did I spell that right?) operations for the many here who need it but I'm not a charity and I want to live a reasonable life while providing for my wife and daughter.
For those that are about to call me a cunt for allowing the mother in law to die go fuck off and get the facts before you do so.  
Anyway, the point of the thread. I was gobbed at before so I wanted to see if anyone would be willing to spend their cash on her or even offer helpful suggestions. One managed but was sadly uninformed as to the local situation.
I didn't seriously expect anyone to stump up but I did want to see the reactions.


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## Yossarian (Jul 25, 2008)

derf said:


> This isn't the UK and no I can't.
> I could have spent all the cash I have keeping my wife's mother alive or paying for treatment for her cousin who is now dead.
> I could spend it sending the local poor to school or paying for cataract (Did I spell that right?) operations for the many here who need it but I'm not a charity and I want to live a reasonable life while providing for my wife and daughter.



With all that stuff to pay for, have you considered getting a job?


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## tarannau (Jul 25, 2008)

What a sneering cock and a pathetic bit of smartarse posting.
<slow handclap>


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## Teaboy (Jul 25, 2008)

derf said:


> Just to get the people up to speed that have not jet seen the "Good or bad" thread.
> I live in Indonesia with my wife and little baby girl.
> A few months ago we employed a 13 year old girl as a maid. Her family is poor and are unable to send her to school. (You have to pay here after 13).
> I got a hammering from a few about employingf a kid including a silly "sucky suck, fucky fucky" comment from on foolish person.
> ...




My answer is this post makes you sound like a proper dodgy bastard.  I dident read the other thread and quite frankly don't care, but something makes me think that any money donated would just as likely end up in your wallet as it would in her education.  

Anyways how come you have no income?  A workshy capatalist, well I never.


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## derf (Jul 26, 2008)

Teaboy said:


> My answer is this post makes you sound like a proper dodgy bastard.  I dident read the other thread and quite frankly don't care, but something makes me think that any money donated would just as likely end up in your wallet as it would in her education.
> 
> Anyways how come you have no income?  A workshy capatalist, well I never.



I'm retired but considering doing some business to give me something to do.
I retired at 45 as I worked hard up to that time exploiting the masses to fatten my wallet so I could do it. 
The only thing I do here is teach a little at local schools and universities but I don't get paid for that at all.
I've also started working with the police on anti drugs talks to kids here but again no cash involved.
I'm just looking at setting up at warnet (internet cafe). Handy for me as I don't have to travel to the big town to fuck you off and it will give me something to do.
I am a "proper dodgy bastard" but not in the way you think.
In fact the line is so good I may use it as a sig. 

EDIT - Done, thanks for the idea teaboy


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## ajk (Jul 26, 2008)

Can't say as I know anything about you derf my lad, but on the strength of this thread you're coming across as a massive wanker tbh.


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## Yossarian (Jul 26, 2008)

derf said:


> I retired at 45 as I worked hard up to that time exploiting the masses to fatten my wallet so I could do it.



If members of your wife's family are dying because they can't afford healthcare and you haven't got enough money to get an education for your 13-year-old servant girl, sounds like the wallet-fattening was insufficient...


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## Geri (Jul 26, 2008)

Well if you don't work, perhaps you should consider doing the cleaning yourself, and use the money you've saved on having a maid to send the girl to school.


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## _angel_ (Jul 26, 2008)

Why would someone at home fulltime need to pay a maid/ nanny (at least fulltime)


????


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## Aldebaran (Jul 26, 2008)

derf said:


> If I pay to send her to school I would not be able to afford a maid and that would be bugger all use to us.  I don't have the social morality that some here claim. I want to employ someone to make my wife's life easier and this girl fits the bill. As it happens I have made thigs better for her by giving her good food and a clean place to sleep along with a far improved wage than she had before.



So in fact you are asking U75 posters to pay you so that you can employ a maid. 




> That's as far as it goes. I am not called Mr Oxfam.
> It would be better for her to return to full time education but the reality is that unless someone pays there is no chance at all.



Very funny. May I suggest you pay for a maid and send the girl you put up for financial adoption here to school too. If you can "retire" at your age, surely you are not going to miss such a tiny amount. 

salaam.


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## ymu (Jul 26, 2008)

You can afford not to work and to employ a maid, but you can't afford £4/week?


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## Hi-ASL (Jul 26, 2008)

If I were to contribute towards this girl's upkeep I would essentially be helping to prop up a rotten, crumbling capitalist system and delaying the inevitable establishment of an international socialist utopia where money exists only as an utterly devalued concept. It's the very left-wing principles that you appeal to which render me utterly unable to help you in any way. I never donate to Children in Need for the very same reasons, it would be like dancing with the devil himself. Please don't ask me to compromise my integrity in this way.


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## matrix_22 (Jul 28, 2008)

when i read your initial post (the original thread) I had some sympathy - I thought you may have been getting a bit of stick that was misguided.  At that time I didn't realise you were 'retired' I thought that you were trying to obtain work but this thread makes it sound like you're not interested in paid employment - why aren't you earning money to pay what needs to be paid for? why do you need a 'maid' when you could be doing whatever needs doing yourself?  you've done yourself no favours with this thread mate


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## derf (Jul 28, 2008)

Yossarian said:


> If members of your wife's family are dying because they can't afford healthcare and you haven't got enough money to get an education for your 13-year-old servant girl, sounds like the wallet-fattening was insufficient...



I have the cash to keep myself and the family but that's it.
If I waste it then I won't be able to live here and be forced back into a job.
Maybe even back to the UK where I don't want to be and my wife even less so.
As for healthcare she died of diabetes. By the time I found out about it she was in a bad way and all the cash I had would have been spent keeping her alive for a couple of years max.
She would still be dead and I would be unable to look after my family.

Same goes for educating the kid. For you lot on UK incomes it's a drop in the ocean but for me it's a chunk of cash.


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## derf (Jul 28, 2008)

Hi-ASL said:


> If I were to contribute towards this girl's upkeep I would essentially be helping to prop up a rotten, crumbling capitalist system and delaying the inevitable establishment of an international socialist utopia where money exists only as an utterly devalued concept. It's the very left-wing principles that you appeal to which render me utterly unable to help you in any way. I never donate to Children in Need for the very same reasons, it would be like dancing with the devil himself. Please don't ask me to compromise my integrity in this way.



Or you also may be a tight fucker unwilling to help others as long as you can keep popping out for a pizza so your gob has the energy to spout socialist bollocks.

Just as a tester I wonder how many of you actually do something to help others.
I teach for *free* in local schools and universities.
I do *free* English language broadcasting on local radio.
I have just started doing *free* anti drugs talks to kids.
I give *free* English lessons to the kids in the village.

What do you do?


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## Santino (Jul 28, 2008)

derf said:


> Or you also may be a tight fucker unwilling to help others as long as you can keep popping out for a pizza so your gob has the energy to spout socialist bollocks.


I rather think you may have missed the irony in that post. I hope so, anyway.


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## Teaboy (Jul 28, 2008)

Edited - Nah, bad taste.


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## Upchuck (Jul 28, 2008)

You are having a laugh.  I remember your other thread and you just came across as a cheap, arrogant person who wanted a maid to say they had a maid.  Why did you repost now?  It is all very strange.  Why don't you just get on with living your life in Indonesia.  Sounds like you are bored and restless.


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## Gromit (Jul 28, 2008)

Sorry to say Derf that you do come across as a bit of a tosser in this thread. Easily done, i sometimes come across as a tosser too and no doubt will get shouted down for defending you a bit, which i what I'm about to do. 

1. Since when is it a crime to want to retire early? I'd love to be able to retire early myself but will no doubt have to work like a dog until i'm 65. Instead of really experiencing life earlier being a slave to the wage.
If you do retire early then the money you have is effectly your pension and has to last. Do people really expect pensioners to charitably support others out of limited incomes?

2. Just £4. What is the UK equivalent to £4 in Indonesia? £20? How many of the people shouting him down for not paying £4 a week shell out £80 a month themselves to charity?

3. Say he pays for this child. What about the next and the next? Is he responsable for all the children in Indonesia? Since when did poverty in the country become his responsability? He might not be giving away something for nothing but he is helping out that family by providing employment. Employment that I bet they are grateful for and that other families would kill for. Its a shame that this is the case but once again its not his fault the country he lives in is like that. He didn't cause the situation even if he is benefiting from it.

4. Is it wrong to move to a poor country so that you can retire early. You are benefiting from their poverty. But then they are benefiting from money being channeled into the economy from a wealthier country. Its is mutually beneficial and not totally one sided. To be honest with rip off britain the way it is more and more retirement money is going to go out the country this way.

5. Maids. I don't really see why you need a maid if you are retired. Not unless the wife and yourself is ill or something. It is rather an indulgance but there again if you've earnt your money over the years and want to spend it on that particular indulgance instead of say a posher car or drugs or booze or whatever than thats upto you I think. Its not the indulgence i would pick or many others on here but i can see the attraction of never having to do housework. Are we not allowed indulgences on Urban now? Who has the right to say how we can or can't spend our money so long as it isn't on things that cause real misery to others like child porn or supporting terrorism or something.

6. How many people shouting him down sponsor a child? There are plenty of charities out there that you can do this via. I suggest this as an alternative to Derf pimping for money (even though he ain't serious). 

I do sponsor a child by the way, direct from my rubbish salary, that will stop when i retire. I tithe money to 3 charities direct from my salary as i know that more of my money has a chance of reaching the beneficiaries that way that giving to doorstep people or tin carriers (who all take a very large cut). Plus the government have to match my contributions that way too through gift aid.


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## Aldebaran (Jul 28, 2008)

I think you miss the point.
 If he can employ a child as maid but not pay at the same time for her education  (and how is she going to school when she has a job at his house?) then he has the choice to pay for her education and do his cleaning or whatever she does himself. 

Instead he posts a thread suggesting that U75 posers should feel guilty because he wants a child as his maid.
A joke, surely?

salaam.

* expect now any time Yuwipi Woman to pop up to say I should sell my violin*


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## Gromit (Jul 28, 2008)

Aldebaran said:


> I think you miss the point.
> If he can employ a child as maid but not pay at the same time for her education (and how is she going to school when she has a job at his house?) then he has the choice to pay for her education and do his cleaning or whatever she does himself.
> 
> Instead he posts a thread suggesting that U75 posers should feel guilty because he wants a child as his maid.
> ...


 
Drat i was hoping no one would post before i could my follow up post which is the slagging Derf off post. I don't see everything as black and white and am trying to cover both sides of grey.

I start this post by saying i do not support Child Labour. 
Children earning money in their spare time which doesn't get in the way of school is fine. I had a poor childhood and had 3 jobs as well as school.

Derf employing this child is probably a lesser of evils to other alternatives. Working in the fields, on the game, being thrown out by the family who can't afford to keep her.

However it is still an evil and so Derf shouldn't be bragging about it.
If he was putting her through school that would be brag worthy but this isn't.

Has Derf considered that instead of employing 1 full time worker who can't go to school he should be employing several part time workers in rotation so that they have time to do both work and study?

He would need to garentee that they would go to school rather than take his money and work somewhere else.


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## Upchuck (Jul 28, 2008)

FFS how much does it take to keep a hut in Indonesia clean?????


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 28, 2008)

i never though a thread with a maid in it would have so much fail.....


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## Homeless Mal (Jul 28, 2008)

Disgraceful post


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## kerb (Jul 28, 2008)

derf said:


> Same goes for educating the kid. .



nice way of putting it 

*sets up paypal account


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## Celt (Jul 28, 2008)

Upchuck said:


> You are having a laugh.  I remember your other thread and you just came across as a cheap, arrogant person who wanted a maid to say they had a maid.  Why did you repost now?  It is all very strange.  Why don't you just get on with living your life in Indonesia.  Sounds like you are bored and restless.




I remember that post too, and I wonder why your posting again, I suspect you feel you have some moral point to make.

So if £4 is a lot wherever you live, how much does your internet connection cost?

I can't be arsed going searching for your post -  I doubt that whatever anyone says here will make a scrap of difference


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## Funky_monks (Jul 28, 2008)

I would like to employ an orphan child as a maid. This gives her the chance to enter wage slavery as opposed to sleeping on the streets or whatnot. I promise I will be nice to her and not to keep her in a cupboard or anything. However, my internet freinds, such a proposition needs cash to work.

Lots of cash.


Please pm your bank/card details/pin numbers forthwith. 

I thank you in advance.


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## mauvais (Jul 28, 2008)

DEAR URBANS76,

MY NAME IS KING DERF THE MAGINEFICIENT 4, AND I AM FROM THE KNIGDOM OF INDONESIA WICH IS NOWHERE NEAR NIGERIA WHERE I AM NOT. I HAVE MANY GOWNS AND THINGS MADE OF GLOD AND ALSO AN ACTUAL THRONE. EAT THAT YOU BITCHES.

RECENTLY MY UNCLE OR SOMEONE WAS KILLED IN A MYSTERIOUS FIRE WHERE I WAS NOT AT ALL PRESENT, AND I WAS LEFT HIS BUSINESS WHICH IS THE BUSINESS OF SELLING PORRIDGE BUSINESS. YOU SEE PORRIDGE IS SACRED IN MY COUNTRY AND PEOPLE WALK MANY MILES TO GAZE UPON ITS WNODER.

ANYWAY THE PORIRDGE BUNISNESS NEEDS TO EXPLAND AND I AM HEREFORTHWITHLLY PROPOSIERING A DEAL! I HAVE BEEN OFFERED POSSESIN OF A SMALL CHILD. TBH THEY ARE A BIT OF A SCRUFFBAG BUT STEVE SAYS THEY WILL DO OWT FOR COINS.

IF YOU CAN FAX ME FOURTEEN MILLION QUID NO DOLLARS THEYRE WORTHLESS THEN I WILL EMPLOY THE MIDGET DWARF BOY TO CLEAN UP MY MESS AND ERR LEVERAGE DYNAMIC SYNERGIES AN THAT. THEY WILL STIR THE PORRIDGE ALSO AND MAKE US MEGA WONGA WIHCH I WILL GIVE ALL OF IT TO YOU. AND IF THEY FALL IN AND DROWN IM SURE IT WILL STILL BE TASTY,

CHEERS BOSS

DR BOOMSTICK AWOOGA
10 INDONESIA STREET
INDONESIA


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## smokedout (Jul 29, 2008)

derf said:


> The question is are the heros who have a pop at me willing to stump up the cash and put their money where their mouths are?
> 
> 
> I await your answers.



what a complete and utter cunt you are

get a job you lazy fucking useless bastard

you want us to subsidise you're vague sense of guilt at exploiting child labour because youre too fucking lazy to either work or even do your own fucking housework

lame, greedy, pathetic, weak, contemptable - the true face of the right wing


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## Madusa (Jul 29, 2008)

Funky_monks said:


> I would like to employ an orphan child as a maid. This gives her the chance to enter wage slavery as opposed to sleeping on the streets or whatnot. I promise I will be nice to her and not to keep her in a cupboard or anything. However, my internet freinds, such a proposition needs cash to work.
> 
> Lots of cash.
> 
> ...



pmsl!

 I remember the 'good/bad' thread and I thought the whole thing dodgy as fuck and now this...errr, i smell a certain whiff of unmistakable bullshit from the OP tbh.


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## lights.out.london (Jul 29, 2008)

Is the £4 to teach the kid to read the shopping lists, the lists of chores and that kind of thing? 

Is this a new Western employer/Local skivvy communication inprovement program - all in the name of productivity and efficiency? 

Have you thought of applying to the UN for funding?


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## Teaboy (Jul 29, 2008)

lights.out.london said:


> Have you thought of applying to the UN for funding?



This is a good point.

I seem to recall the UN being quite keen on child labour, but then again my memory's not so great.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2008)

mauvais said:


> DEAR URBANS76,
> 
> MY NAME IS KING DERF THE MAGINEFICIENT 4, AND I AM FROM THE KNIGDOM OF INDONESIA WICH IS NOWHERE NEAR NIGERIA WHERE I AM NOT. I HAVE MANY GOWNS AND THINGS MADE OF GLOD AND ALSO AN ACTUAL THRONE. EAT THAT YOU BITCHES.
> 
> ...





oh dear this thread is going exactly where I  thought it would. Personally, if I wasn't prepared to pay for the girl's education but be prepared to pay her to be a maid then I wouldn't go posting about it on Urban. Did you see the 'should I employ a cleaner' thread? lol.


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## derf (Jul 30, 2008)

smokedout said:


> what a complete and utter cunt you are
> *TRUE*
> get a job you lazy fucking useless bastard
> *I retired. The idea was I didn't have to work.*
> ...


*I can walk.
I am greedy as you are but I have the balls to admit it.
Pethetic - No.
contemptable - Only if you didn't plan your life so you could stop working at 45. 
Not that right wing as I help local children with education for free. A true blue would fuck them off or charge for the service. I have a soft side.*

*This kid works for me.*

If you want to change the world pop over and do as I do. Teach the local kids for free so that they have the chance of a better future. As things are at the moment there is a big push to learning English but few native speakers to help them pronounce the works correctly. I visit lots of local schools and universities free of charge to help them.
It costs me money for fuel and so on but, being the philanthropist that I am, I do so willingly.

Just as a note four quid is about 2/3 of an unskilled mans weekly wage out here if he can find work for a full week.
Many in the village live on a tenner a month. That's why the kids end up working in the fields. Would you like me to pay for them all to go to school?

Well enjoy your lunch knowing where your next meal is coming from but spare a thought for those who don't.


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## Dhimmi (Jul 30, 2008)

mauvais said:


> DEAR URBANS76,
> 
> MY NAME IS KING DERF THE MAGINEFICIENT 4, AND I AM FROM THE KNIGDOM OF INDONESIA WICH IS NOWHERE NEAR NIGERIA WHERE I AM NOT. I HAVE MANY GOWNS AND THINGS MADE OF GLOD AND ALSO AN ACTUAL THRONE. EAT THAT YOU BITCHES.
> 
> ...


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## derf (Jul 30, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> oh dear this thread is going exactly where I  thought it would. Personally, if I wasn't prepared to pay for the girl's education but be prepared to pay her to be a maid then I wouldn't go posting about it on Urban. Did you see the 'should I employ a cleaner' thread? lol.



And where I thought it would go. 
The problem that many have on here is that they love to spout on but have fuck all idea of what the world is like outside their doorstep.
I do hope that this thread provokes thought about what things are like for those who don't have the cash to live or even feed their family.

I am aware that I come over as a total bastard and in many ways I am but at least one or two people may take the time to investigate what things are like for many people here.
A thread about poverty in Indonesia would do sod all but a controversial subject has made a few sit up and look.
At the end of the day Yuli would have to work on the family farm (That's a plot of land you would call an allotment in the UK) or make crackers all day if she didn't work for me so she is far better off than she would be.


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## quimcunx (Jul 30, 2008)

I see most of the people who have posted on this thread have no more read this thread than they did the other.  

That said, although I appreciate you are trying to do your best by this child I don't think this is the best way to raise funds to sponsor her education.  It is asking rather a lot to expect people to give money to some anonymous person on the internet who could be holed up in a basement in Wyoming for all we know.  I wish I could give you a better suggestion but I can't and I don't know how you can possibly reassure people here how their money would be used if they did give you some.


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## derf (Jul 30, 2008)

Upchuck said:


> FFS how much does it take to keep a hut in Indonesia clean?????



I live in a rather nice two story house I had built in a small village.
We have a TV and satellite dish along with computer radio, Hi fi and so on.
Her duties include cleaning the place, looking after the baby when we are busy and serving guests that visit us.
It's the norm here for richer families to have a servant.
Many here do live in huts with no windows and dirt floors as the maid did.


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## scifisam (Jul 30, 2008)

So you're now convinced that people being unwilling to pledge money to a stranger on a thread titled 'I want your cash' means that Urbanites are stingy rich Westerners who don't care about the poor in other countries, unlike you who is such a charitable philanthrope that you have someone else do your housework because you don't like doing it, and neither does your wife. 

Do you have any idea how stupid that is?


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## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 30, 2008)

derf said:


> ...The only thing I do here is teach a little at local schools and universities but I don't get paid for that at all...


Huh?  

I could understand that if schools and unis were free for pupils and students, but you've already said that education isn't free, the families have to pay.  If the educational establishments receive fees for the education that you provide I can't understand why you're doing it for free.  Doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

And sorry, but I can't help.  I have a filipina cleaner where I'm living and I pay her over the odds on the basis that I know she has a couple of children back home who she's supporting.

Why don't you contact a charity like Plan International or whatever it's called?  Why don't you see if she can participate in and benefit from a formal 'sponsor a child's educatuon' scheme?


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## derf (Jul 30, 2008)

scifisam said:


> So you're now convinced that people being unwilling to pledge money to a stranger on a thread titled 'I want your cash' means that Urbanites are stingy rich Westerners who don't care about the poor in other countries, unlike you who is such a charitable philanthrope that you have someone else do your housework because you don't like doing it, and neither does your wife.
> 
> Do you have any idea how stupid that is?



I never expected anyone to come up with cash but wanted to see reactions and how informed posters were about the real world.
I got the results I expected from the gobby ones but at least a few have given some time to consider the problems that many families have here.

By the way. I don't like housework but who the hell does?


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 30, 2008)

Funky_monks said:


> I would like to employ an orphan child as a maid. *This gives her the chance to enter wage slavery as opposed to sleeping on the streets or whatnot.* I promise I will be nice to her and not to keep her in a cupboard or anything. However, my internet freinds, such a proposition needs cash to work.
> 
> Lots of cash.
> 
> ...


For a lot of young children in Asia and Africa sleeping on the streets would be preferable.  The 'whatnot' is often being forced into prostitution, being sold, etc.  Working as a maid for a lot of young children is much the lesser of two evils.


----------



## derf (Jul 30, 2008)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Huh?
> 
> I could understand that if schools and unis were free for pupils and students, but you've already said that education isn't free, the families have to pay.  If the educational establishments receive fees for the education that you provide I can't understand why you're doing it for free.  Doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.



There is a big push here to learning English but very few native speakers. People here have been good to me so I'm trying to do something in return.
Most schools are poor and have little cash to spend so I do it for nothing.
The Unis tend to have more cash and pay my fuel but still no salary.

Some kids do sleep on the street but none I have seen in this area. Prostitution is a problem and there are some that pay families with a promise to give their kids good work in the cities but they really use them as chickens.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 30, 2008)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> For a lot of young children in Asia and Africa sleeping on the streets would be preferable.  The 'whatnot' is often being forced into prostitution, being sold, etc.  Working as a maid for a lot of young children is much the lesser of two evils.



I agree with that, but that doesn't make this particular thread OK. 

@derf: You're saying that you can't afford to pay for this girl because you don't have much money, and you don't have much money because you choose not to work. You could get work which would provide that money, but you don't want to, or you could do your own housework and use the money you pay this girl to send her to school instead. 

Yet you call others on here hypocrites for talking about wanting to help people and doing nothing about it. That's pretty much the position you're in.


----------



## derf (Jul 30, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I agree with that, but that doesn't make this particular thread OK.
> 
> @derf: You're saying that you can't afford to pay for this girl because you don't have much money, and you don't have much money because you choose not to work. You could get work which would provide that money, but you don't want to, or you could do your own housework and use the money you pay this girl to send her to school instead.
> 
> Yet you call others on here hypocrites for talking about wanting to help people and doing nothing about it. That's pretty much the position you're in.



I decided I didn't want to be a wage slave any more and was in a position to do something about it. I can't toss cash about or I will have to work again and the idea is not to.
We wanted a maid to help us out in the house. Bugger all point in spending the cash on here education and still having to do the work myself.
The problem with some posters here is that all they do is talk about heping but sit on their arses and so sod all.
I may have chosen the life I lead but that;s up to me as your life is up to you but at least I do go out there and help others instead of typing shit about how much they can do and using the cash to get pissed.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 30, 2008)

derf said:


> I decided I didn't want to be a wage slave any more and was in a position to do something about it. I can't toss cash about or I will have to work again and the idea is not to.
> We wanted a maid to help us out in the house. Bugger all point in spending the cash on here education and still having to do the work myself.
> The problem with some posters here is that all they do is talk about heping but sit on their arses and so sod all.
> I may have chosen the life I lead but that;s up to me as your life is up to you but at least I do go out there and help others instead of typing shit about how much they can do and using the cash to get pissed.



But how is that different to anyone on here? You accuse them of sitting on their arses, yet you refuse to do your own housework or look after your own kid and refuse to go to work. 

The only difference is that you know this girl personally and are certain that your money would actually help her. For everyone else on here, you're a stranger on the internet asking for money. 

An awful lot of people on here do stuff to help others in need, and a lot are very poor, but you seem to think you're the only one who's helping others or who is short of cash - while boasting about what a lovely house and lifestyle you have.


----------



## derf (Jul 30, 2008)

scifisam said:


> But how is that different to anyone on here? You accuse them of sitting on their arses, yet you refuse to do your own housework or look after your own kid and refuse to go to work.
> 
> The only difference is that you know this girl personally and are certain that your money would actually help her. For everyone else on here, you're a stranger on the internet asking for money.
> 
> An awful lot of people on here do stuff to help others in need, and a lot are very poor, but you seem to think you're the only one who's helping others or who is short of cash - while boasting about what a lovely house and lifestyle you have.



I don't refuse to work. I do work part time but for free to help others.
I can afford a maid to do the housework. Hard luck if you can't. 
I do look after my own kid most of the time but it's really handy having a maid from time to time.
My house is very nice and my lifestyle is pretty much as I like it thanks. Hard shit if you want the same but never got it.
I don't assume I'm the only one who helps others here but I do object to the lefty spouters who do fuck all except open their gobs.

I wanted posters to think about the situation here. Some did and some used their mouths but not their brains.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 30, 2008)

Right, I was about to type a proper response to that post, then decided I can't be arsed. 

So much 'look at me, living such a great lifestyle because I moved to a country where people are poorer financially,' plus 'anyone who disagrees with me is obviously doing nothing to help others,' with a side-order of 'you're poorer than me, nyer nyer!' 

And all this when you're actually not even _trying_ to look like a total bastard! It just comes naturally!


----------



## Jessiedog (Jul 30, 2008)

derf said:


> I can afford a maid to do the housework. Hard luck if you can't.



At GBP12:00 per month for a full-time, live-in servant - aged 13.





Woof


----------



## Aldebaran (Jul 30, 2008)

derf said:


> I don't refuse to work. I do work part time but for free to help others.
> I can afford a maid to do the housework. Hard luck if you can't.



I can. More than one, actually, but they are paid normal decent wages and I don't employ children. Let alone I would do that, then post on a message board about it and while I'm at it tell others they must feel guilty if they don't send me money because that girl actually should be going to school. 

If you are that involved with her, send her to school and employ an adult. End of story.

salaam.


----------



## lights.out.london (Jul 30, 2008)

derf said:


> I live in _*a rather nice two story house I had built*_ in a small village.
> We have a TV and satellite dish along with computer radio, Hi fi and so on.
> Her duties include _*cleaning*_ the place,_* looking after the baby *_when we are busy and _*serving guests *_that visit us.
> It's the norm here for richer families to have_* a servant*_.
> Many here do live in huts with no windows and dirt floors as the maid did.



Mate. Do you ever ever re-read your posts? 

A servant? A servant! Fucks sake...

Pay her a decent wage and let her buy her own education. Jesus wept at the brass neck of it all.


----------



## derf (Aug 1, 2008)

lights.out.london said:


> Mate. Do you ever ever re-read your posts?
> 
> A servant? A servant! Fucks sake...
> 
> Pay her a decent wage and let her buy her own education. Jesus wept at the brass neck of it all.



I did have a nice house built. I'll post a picture or two if you like. 
We have two bathrooms, 2 toilets, 3 living rooms and 3 bedrooms. Some of the banana trees in the front garden are looking a bit rough. Must do something about that.
What else would you call a maid? A servant is as good a word as any and in common use here. Maybe that's not PC enough for you. 
That's another nice thing about this place no bugger gives a shit about wording things so as not to upset anyone. We still have blackboards in schools and they have a local name for white guys as well but I don't get offended as I know that they are just using a descriptive word not having a go at me.
The wage is fine by local standards and maybe a bit over the top.
The same as many teachers and free food with a clean place to sleep.
Better than many of the working blokes here get. Get to grips with local standards before having a pop at me.
That or you could sit in front of your computers having a go in the sure knowledge that you are right by your own narrow standards that work well in the UK but have sod all to do with this place.
i wonder who the twat really is.
Me for employing a girl who would otherwise work silly hours for much less money or some of you for spouting and knowing fuck all.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 1, 2008)

derf said:


> i wonder who the twat really is.
> Me for employing a girl who would otherwise work silly hours for much less money or some of you for spouting and knowing fuck all.



Personally, I don't think you're a twat for employing the girl.

What makes me think you're a twat is you boasting about your wonderful lifestyle and asking strangers to give money you won't give yourself. 

'I have a better lifestyle than you because I live in a country which is less cash-rich than my home country. I can afford a big house with trees and lots of rooms and everything - would you like to see pictures? And a servant! Now, send me your money!'


----------



## derf (Aug 1, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Personally, I don't think you're a twat for employing the girl.
> 
> What makes me think you're a twat is you boasting about your wonderful lifestyle and asking strangers to give money you won't give yourself.
> 
> 'I have a better lifestyle than you because I live in a country which is less cash-rich than my home country. I can afford a big house with trees and lots of rooms and everything - would you like to see pictures? And a servant! Now, send me your money!'



Ok I'll sack her and send her home tonight.
She will go back to sleeping on a simple mattress on a dirt floor.
She will either go to work for someone else at less money and poorer working conditions or work in the family field in the day and make crackers at night.
She will earn less and end up married off so that the family don't have to pay for her keep.
The first one we were going to employ didn't come as she was forced in marriage at 15 for the same reasons.

Will that make you happy?

Sleep well.


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Aug 1, 2008)

derf said:


> Ok I'll sack her and send her home tonight.
> She will go back to sleeping on a simple mattress on a dirt floor.
> She will either go to work for someone else at less money and poorer working conditions or work in the family field in the day and make crackers at night.
> She will earn less and end up married off so that the family don't have to pay for her keep.
> ...


Why be so hostile?  

Can you not appreciate how dodgy and boastful you seem from the perspective of someone who doesn't know you or the girl who's reading this on the other side of the globe?  You're trolling for hostile reactions and then acting all hostile when you get them.  And your point is...?

Look, seriously, no one on a random internet forum is going to send cash to someone who could in reality be sitting in an internet cafe in Nigeria.

The best thing you can do, as I mentioned before, is get in touch with a charity like Plan International and see if they can enrol the girl in their programmes to fund her education.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 1, 2008)

derf said:


> Ok I'll sack her and send her home tonight.
> She will go back to sleeping on a simple mattress on a dirt floor.
> She will either go to work for someone else at less money and poorer working conditions or work in the family field in the day and make crackers at night.
> She will earn less and end up married off so that the family don't have to pay for her keep.
> ...



I think you must have missed my first sentence, where I said I don't think you're a twat for employing this girl.


----------



## derf (Aug 1, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I think you must have missed my first sentence, where I said I don't think you're a twat for employing this girl.



Sorry I did.


----------



## derf (Aug 1, 2008)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Why be so hostile?
> 
> Can you not appreciate how dodgy and boastful you seem from the perspective of someone who doesn't know you or the girl who's reading this on the other side of the globe?  You're trolling for hostile reactions and then acting all hostile when you get them.  And your point is...?
> 
> ...



I know of no charities operating in this area. If you do I would happily send her to school as I know that's the best thing but at the moment there is no real option.
I am a twat but not for the reasons you think.


----------



## paolo (Aug 1, 2008)

Just for context, how many hours per week would she be working? And following that, how would it fit with education, e.g. time to do homework etc?


----------



## Fez909 (Aug 1, 2008)

Derf: I know you're dying to tell us what this other trait/skill/whatever is that makes you "a twat" or a "proper dodgy bastard" but not for the reasons we think.  So come on, what else are you about to 'admit'?


----------



## kerb (Aug 1, 2008)

derf said:


> The first one we were going to employ




you see its phrases like that, that worry me. By this description it shows that you look down at the people you employ. And perhaps im nitpicking and you used that phrase out of ease when categorising. But i doubt it from the tone of your voice and the use of your words in this thread. 

But fuck it. Its the third world. Without _me_ she'd be sleeping on a mat . 

And listen to your throw away attitude. 



derf said:


> Ok I'll sack her and send her home tonight.



I hope you treat her better than you describe her


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Aug 1, 2008)

derf said:


> I know of no charities operating in this area. If you do I would happily send her to school as I know that's the best thing but at the moment there is no real option.
> I am a twat but not for the reasons you think.


So why don't you contact that charity Plan International and inform them that there's a desperate need in your area?  Just because they might not be operating there at the moment, doesn't mean that they won't if a need is identified to them...

And if they can't/won't then there are other charities that do similar sponsor a child things, you could probably find them by Googling.  Doing something constructive like that is better use of your internet time than bitching about people here.  Do you actually want to do something to help the child?  Or just bitch about people who can't/won't help?

Or why not email your friends and family back home, see if anyone there wants to 'sponsor' this girl and pay for her education?  You're more likely to get a positive response from people who actually know you and can vouch for you not being some dodgy bloke in an internet cafe in Nigeria.


----------



## George & Bill (Aug 1, 2008)

Employing a 13-year-old maid to work for you when you don't even work yourself at the age of 45, and claiming that doing so rather than doing your own washing up, instead using the money to send her to school, is bad enough.

Raping a child on a daily basis before pouring acid in its eyes is worse.


----------



## derf (Aug 2, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Just for context, how many hours per week would she be working? And following that, how would it fit with education, e.g. time to do homework etc?



Working hour are never the same day to day but with cleaning, ironing and looking after Michelle I would guess 4 or 5 hours a day max on a busy day and less when there is little to do.
She now goes to a free school two days a week for a few hours each time but has to do embroidery to help pay for that.
The teachers sell the work in the market to cover their time in school.
You have to remember that some of the teachers are also on Rp200,00 a month so they can't do it for free.
The rest of her time is free. She will pop out to friends houses or just sit and watch TV.


----------



## derf (Aug 2, 2008)

Fez909 said:


> Derf: I know you're dying to tell us what this other trait/skill/whatever is that makes you "a twat" or a "proper dodgy bastard" but not for the reasons we think.  So come on, what else are you about to 'admit'?



I was a total bastard when I was young. A pissed up biker with the morals of an ally cat but would feel a little less guilty about it than most moggies.
I never really forgave myself for the things that I did.


----------



## derf (Aug 2, 2008)

kerb said:


> you see its phrases like that, that worry me. By this description it shows that you look down at the people you employ.
> 
> I hope you treat her better than you describe her



She's a servant but that in no way suggests that I don't treat her well.
As it goes her conditions are far better than most employees here. I know of no others that are given a TV in their room or such easy work for that kind of money.
Anyway her family are poor but she's not stupid. She using the wages to buy a breeding pair of goats.
When the kids grow up she'll get a million a shot for them.
If she uses her head shes going to end up well off by the time she gets married so her kids will have the chances that she has missed.


----------



## derf (Aug 2, 2008)

slowjoe said:


> Employing a 13-year-old maid to work for you when you don't even work yourself at the age of 45, and claiming that doing so rather than doing your own washing up, instead using the money to send her to school, is bad enough.
> 
> Raping a child on a daily basis before pouring acid in its eyes is worse.



I'm 46 now and I don't refuse to work. I retired.

What the fuck do I care for idiots like you with stupid attempts to make it sound like she's some sort of sex object or suggesting that employing someone is equal to the very nasty crime of rape.

That is most likely the most stupid comment I have ever heard or seen written down anywhere.
Ye gods I thought I spoke shit but you have me beaten hands down with that bollocks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2008)

derf said:


> I'm 46 now and I don't refuse to work. I retired.
> 
> What the fuck do I care for idiots like you with stupid attempts to make it sound like she's some sort of sex object or suggesting that employing someone is equal to the very nasty crime of rape.
> 
> ...



Mate, I wouldn't feel it morally right to employ a girl of that age. Call me a reactionary fuck, but I tend to believe that you shouldn't employ an under sixteen. Regardless of local culture.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 2, 2008)

Which part of indonesia are you in ! One of the blokes I work with is Indonesian and came from a very poor family , it just sounds like the picture your painting of the indonesian system is not the same as what I've about it from him !


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 2, 2008)

> In Indonesia, every citizen has to have nine years of education, six years at elementary level and three in middle school.
> From birth until the age of 5, Indonesian children do not generally have access to formal education. From the age of 5 to 6 or 7, they attend kindergarten (Taman Kanak-kanak). This education is not compulsory for Indonesian citizens, as the aim of this is to prepare them for primary school. The majority of kindergartens are private schools, with more than forty-nine thousand kindergartens, 99.35% of the total kindergartens in Indonesia, privately operated[1]. The kindergarten years are usually divided into "Class A" and "Class B" students spending a year in each class.
> Children ages 7-12 attend Sekolah Dasar (SD) (literally Elementary School). This level of education is compulsory for all Indonesian citizens, based on the national constitution. In contrast to the majority of privately run kindergartens, most elementary schools are government operated public schools, accounting for 93% of all elementary schools in Indonesia[2]. Similar to education systems in the U.S. and Australia, students must study for six years to complete this level. Some schools offer an accelerated learning program, where students who perform well can finish elementary school in five years.
> Middle School, generally known by the abbreviation "SMP" (Sekolah Menengah Pertama) is part of primary education in Indonesia. After graduating from elementary school, students attend Middle School for three years from the age of 13-15. After three years of schooling and graduation, students may move on to High School or College, or cease formal education. There are around 22,000 schools in Indonesia with a balanced ownership between public and private sector[3



so the compulsory 9 years of education indonesian kids get is from the ages 7-15 

I'm off to look for more evidence which backs this source up now !


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 2, 2008)

> Compulsory Education: Presidential Instruction Decree No. 10 of 1973, initiated Indonesia's program of compulsory education and by 1984 the government of Indonesia had fully implemented the six year compulsory education for primary school age children (7-12 years). The result of this new policy was significant in that the participation rate in primary school reached 92 percent in 1993 compared to 79 percent just 10 years earlier.
> 
> Ten years after the compulsory primary education program came fully into effect, Indonesia launched the Nine Year Basic Education Program, as proclaimed by President Suharto on 2 May 1994, extending compulsory education to the 13- to 15-year-old population. The compulsory nine-year basic education affords opportunities for Indonesian citizens to get an education. The extension from six years to nine years of basic education was also intended to alleviate the problem of child labor.
> 
> ...



Theres some more evidence about the school leaving age there !


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 2, 2008)

derf said:


> (You have to pay here after 13).




do you ?


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 2, 2008)

If the compulsory age of education in indonesia is 15 are we to believe that Indonesians have to pay for the last 2 years of their compulsory education and not the previous 7 years and if this isn't the case the actual cost of educating her to 18 would be more like £600 ( based on your £1000 for 5 years of education calculation ) so could you not pay for her education while she does work for you part time to pay off the money you have provided for her untill she can get a better job and not have to rely on you to provide well paid work in the area because she will have the skills to find decent employment for herself .


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 2, 2008)

Maybe derf only thinks she is 13 while she is 23.

salaam.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 2, 2008)

derf said:


> I did have a nice house built. I'll post a picture or two if you like.
> We have two bathrooms, 2 toilets, 3 living rooms and 3 bedrooms. Some of the banana trees in the front garden are looking a bit rough. Must do something about that.



Oh please... You can't "afford" a ridiculously little amount to send a kid to school but you are retired at 45, emigrated to an other country, bought land and build a house etc... ? Who are you trying to fool here. 

And then this



derf said:


> Ok I'll sack her and send her home tonight.
> She will go back to sleeping on a simple mattress on a dirt floor.
> She will either go to work for someone else at less money and poorer working conditions or work in the family field in the day and make crackers at night.
> She will earn less and end up married off so that the family don't have to pay for her keep.
> ...



Looks to me you feel wonderful in your "position of power over someone's life".

I would wish the girl -if she exists in reality- reads this and gives you a good spitting in the face after which she tells you that you can do your cleaning, babysitting and serving guests yourself.  Really. Looks to me you never had anything to say anywhere and now you feel glorious because you employ someone. Seriously, grow up. I don't believe you are 45. 

salaam.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 2, 2008)

Question....

If you volunteer at local schools why cant she have free or reduce rate tution in exchange for the time you give to them?


----------



## George & Bill (Aug 2, 2008)

derf said:


> I'm 46 now and I don't refuse to work. I retired.
> 
> What the fuck do I care for idiots like you with stupid attempts to make it sound like she's some sort of sex object or suggesting that employing someone is equal to the very nasty crime of rape.
> 
> ...



it's not my fault if you're a rapist.


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Aug 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Mate, I wouldn't feel it morally right to employ a girl of that age. Call me a reactionary fuck, but I tend to believe that you shouldn't employ an under sixteen. Regardless of local culture.


I had a paper round when I was 13, so do loads of other children in the UK.  I had a Saturday job in a shop with I was 14 or 15.  Admittedly not full time jobs, but it's 'local culture' to employ children in the UK.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 3, 2008)

MATB? Got to be.


----------



## Geri (Aug 3, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> MATB? Got to be.



What's that supposed to mean?


----------



## Biglittlefish (Aug 3, 2008)

So we got a guy paying a girl an above average wage to do some house work for him. Burn in hell you heartless motherfucker.


----------



## cesare (Aug 3, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> MATB? Got to be.



Eh? 

Edit, add: there's cunts everywhere but if he's outed himself on MATB I missed it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 3, 2008)

derf said:


> I'll stick to capitalism thanks. At least I can be honest about my ideals instead of bleating on but falling down when given the chance to show my politics in action.
> "4 legs good, 2 legs better" said a pig.



You little worm.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 3, 2008)

Biglittlefish said:


> So we got a guy paying a girl an above average wage to do some house work for him. Burn in hell you heartless motherfucker.



No, we got a guy employing a child and asking U75 members to pay her wages.
That's what it comes down to, in fact.

salaam.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 3, 2008)

Geri said:


> What's that supposed to mean?



I was wondering if it was a raiding party.  Finding it hard to take derf seriously.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 3, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> I was wondering if it was a raiding party.  Finding it hard to take derf seriously.



But people from MATB already post here. 

Or people from here already post there. Which way round should it be?


----------



## Biglittlefish (Aug 3, 2008)

Aldebaran said:


> No, we got a guy employing a child and asking U75 members to pay her wages.
> That's what it comes down to, in fact.
> 
> salaam.



Taught he wanted urbs to pay up so she could go home and have an education without haven to work for him.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 3, 2008)

Biglittlefish said:


> Taught he wanted urbs to pay up so she could go home and have an education without haven to work for him.



Yes, and because nobody is silly enough to send some anonymous guy on the internet their hard-earned; therefore, ergo, thus, we are all stinking hypocrites and capitalism is a much more sensible option as long as you're honest and admit to being a complete toad.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 3, 2008)

Biglittlefish said:


> Taught he wanted urbs to pay up so she could go home and have an education without haven to work for him.



No he wanted U75 members to pay him so that he could get an other maid if he pays for the schooling of the child maid he has now.
Comes down to: He wants U75 to pay the wages of his maid.

Hello there U75'ers, internet pals, shall I open some account somewhere for you to donate because this is a good example how to save on personnel wages. Haha 

salaam.


----------



## Geri (Aug 3, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> I was wondering if it was a raiding party.  Finding it hard to take derf seriously.



We don't do that kind of thing.


----------



## derf (Aug 4, 2008)

slowjoe said:


> it's not my fault if you're a rapist.



Seek help. I'm sure that there must be places in secure facilities with staff that can help your mental problems.


----------



## derf (Aug 4, 2008)

Aldebaran said:


> Oh please... You can't "afford" a ridiculously little amount to send a kid to school but you are retired at 45, emigrated to an other country, bought land and build a house etc... ? Who are you trying to fool here.
> 
> And then this
> 
> ...



I can afford to retire early as things are so cheap out here. That was the trick behind it. No way could I have done so in the UK.
When I reach 55 I will get a small private pension and at 65 more but for the next 10 years I have to live on savings.
The money is finite so I have to be careful. The salary I have given myself is about 2 grand a year until my kid starts school. 
For village life and looking after the family that will be fine but I am a little over budget at the moment as the house cost more than I expected.

The law is the law here but that does not mean it works. There are lots of kids about unable to go to school for the same reasons but most are less lucky and end up working in lousy conditions for sod all.

It has been suggested that I pay her a better wage. I would be interested in how much you would pay.

By the way what is "MATB"?


----------



## Epona (Aug 4, 2008)

Well your trick to retiring early sure worked out nice for you.  As someone living and growing up in the 'wealthy west' where my parents didn't get an opportunity at any decent education, and where I couldn't go to university full time because I had to work full time to make ends meet, I can't imagine what possible chance a young girl in your part of the world could have, they must have it 1000 times worse than me.

You're just an exploiter, don't try to justify it by telling us that you've earned such a pampered retirement - wealth comes from the sweat of others.


----------



## El Jefe (Aug 4, 2008)

is it too late in the thread to point out what an utter cock derf is?


----------



## Epona (Aug 4, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> is it too late in the thread to point out what an utter cock derf is?


I think he's pointed that out himself, a hundred times over.


----------



## derf (Aug 4, 2008)

Epona said:


> Well your trick to retiring early sure worked out nice for you.  As someone living and growing up in the 'wealthy west' where my parents didn't get an opportunity at any decent education, and where I couldn't go to university full time because I had to work full time to make ends meet, I can't imagine what possible chance a young girl in your part of the world could have, they must have it 1000 times worse than me.
> 
> You're just an exploiter, don't try to justify it by telling us that you've earned such a pampered retirement - wealth comes from the sweat of others.




And my own sweat.
I managed to break out of the rat race with a combination of hard work, clever planning and luck.
With a bit of the same this lass will keep her head screwed on and use the money as she planned. So far, so good. She asked me not to give her anything until she had enough to buy her first goat. I paid her yesterday and she's having a day off today. First to school and then I hope to start her business.
If all goes well in time she will employ others to help her business grow. Will that make her an exploiter of workers to her capitalist ideals or just someone trying to do the best for herself and her family?
Just as a note I grew up in poverty myself. We lived in a council house with a large family of cockroaches. It was my father's hard work that got us out of that and living a reasonable but not rich life.
I worked hard to start my business. It was hard and I almost went bust several times but I came through. Sometimes I had to do work that I hated doing to make ends meet but I managed. A year or so back I called it a day after a tough year, sold all the kit and cashed in my investments so I could leave the country and live OK until my pensions came.
I still have one investment that I can't cash in for another 10 years or so but that will come to about 50 grand (today's value) so my kid will be fine.

As for a tough life I know all about that but you see nothing in the UK.
The number of families living in houses with dirt floors you would not believe but they still invite me into their homes and ask me to take food with them.
There is a new poverty program here that gives all families a cash payout once a month. We also get it but come the end of the fasting we are using to money to buy local kids clothes that they need. 
Sorry you had it hard but so did I and that's sod all to what many of these people live like but they don't moan about it but do what they can to help their family.

Reality can be a total bastard but these people still manage a smile.
I have far greater respect for them than some of the moaning gits on here.

No one yet has suggested what would be an OK salery to pay the girl. Any taker?


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 4, 2008)

derf said:


> No one yet has suggested what would be an OK salery to pay the girl. Any taker?



It's _not_ OK to employ this child - if you want to help her, pay for her to go to school.




Woof


----------



## derf (Aug 4, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> It's _not_ OK to employ this child - if you want to help her, pay for her to go to school.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i could get rid of her but I won't pay for her to go to school.
As I said I'm not called oxfam.


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 4, 2008)

derf said:


> i could get rid of her but I won't pay for her to go to school.



You've made that clear.





> As I said I'm not called oxfam.



And as I said.....


That says it all.


Woof


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 4, 2008)

derf said:


> i could get rid of her but I won't pay for her to go to school.
> As I said I'm not called oxfam.



you've nicely missed out my posts which say that the compulsory age range for kids to attend school in indonesia is 7-15 , and further to that you haven't explained why she is not in this compulsory education which the evidencew seems to suggest was extended up to the age of 15 to preven children being exploited for child labour .


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 4, 2008)

derf said:


> Not so much having a go at people but out to show that some are able to have a go at someone and a system they know sod all about but are quick to offer a "fuck off" when they are givien the chance to do something with their ideals.



do you actually knoiw anything about the system either ?


----------



## crimethInc (Aug 4, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> is it too late in the thread to point out what an utter cock derf is?



Nope - Derf is an utter cock.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 4, 2008)

Epona said:


> You're just an exploiter, don't try to justify it by telling us that you've earned such a pampered retirement - wealth comes from the sweat of others.



It can also be inherited, just like the opposite can be the case. Nobody has a choice over where he is born. 

salaam.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 4, 2008)

derf said:


> i could get rid of her but I won't pay for her to go to school.
> As I said I'm not called oxfam.



The pit you are digging for yourself here gets only deeper and deeper.
I'm wondering what you are trying to achieve.

salaam.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 4, 2008)

derf said:


> I can afford to retire early as things are so cheap out here. That was the trick behind it. No way could I have done so in the UK.
> When I reach 55 I will get a small private pension and at 65 more but for the next 10 years I have to live on savings.
> The money is finite so I have to be careful. The salary I have given myself is about 2 grand a year until my kid starts school.
> For village life and looking after the family that will be fine but I am a little over budget at the moment as the house cost more than I expected.



All shows you live above your means. Maybe you should tone it down a bit.



> The law is the law here but that does not mean it works. There are lots of kids about unable to go to school for the same reasons but most are less lucky and end up working in lousy conditions for sod all.



And you contribute to this. She should go to school.



> It has been suggested that I pay her a better wage. I would be interested in how much you would pay.



I would employ an adult (maybe her mother, sister, brother?). 
It's not that hard to calculate the cost of life for that family and it's not hard to add it up to a wage where they can have their normal costs covered and save something too.

For example you say she has now 1 goat? Give one as a bonus every month and see to it she can buy one every month herself from savings. Can't be that hard, is it? Can't be that expensive that you would go without food for the next month? Because if so, you are more than living above your means.

salaam.


----------



## derf (Aug 5, 2008)

Termite Man said:


> you've nicely missed out my posts which say that the compulsory age range for kids to attend school in indonesia is 7-15 , and further to that you haven't explained why she is not in this compulsory education which the evidencew seems to suggest was extended up to the age of 15 to preven children being exploited for child labour .



Yes I did fail to answer.
So it's the law but how about the cash?

I believe that it was suggested that if school was compulsary then education must be free.
Please send details of a school that will offer free education and I'll see that she has the chance to attend as soon as I get the details.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 5, 2008)

derf said:


> Just to get the people up to speed that have not jet seen the "Good or bad" thread.
> I live in Indonesia with my wife and little baby girl.
> A few months ago we employed a 13 year old girl as a maid. Her family is poor and are unable to send her to school. (You have to pay here after 13).
> I got a hammering from a few about employingf a kid including a silly "sucky suck, fucky fucky" comment from on foolish person.
> ...



I haven't read the thread, but do people get on your case for giving this kid a job?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Chairman Meow said:


> I'd rather channel my charitable donations through more regular methods. Why don't you sponsor her? After all her wages are low aren't they?



Who's going to do the washing up?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 5, 2008)

Geri said:


> Well if you don't work, perhaps you should consider doing the cleaning yourself, and use the money you've saved on having a maid to send the girl to school.



What if the kid's a dummy? Big waste of money.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 5, 2008)

I think every poster on the thread should spend one pound less per week on drugs, and send the money to derf to get this poor girl an education.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 5, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> I haven't read the thread, but do people get on your case for giving this kid a job?



You better read it before commenting then.

salaam


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 5, 2008)

derf said:


> I believe that it was suggested that if school was compulsary then education must be free.
> Please send details of a school that will offer free education and I'll see that she has the chance to attend as soon as I get the details.




I can't do that if I don't know what part of Indonesia you are in


----------



## lights.out.london (Aug 5, 2008)

slowjoe said:


> Employing a 13-year-old maid to work for you when you don't even work yourself at the age of 45, and claiming that doing so rather than doing your own washing up, instead using the money to send her to school, is bad enough.
> 
> Raping a child on a daily basis before pouring acid in its eyes is worse.



Employing a 13 year old girl as a _servant_, you mean. His expression, not mine.

What next? Up chimneys? Down coal mines. Fucking priceless. The emphasis are mine.



derf said:


> I live in _*a rather nice two story house I had built*_ in a small village.
> We have a TV and satellite dish along with computer radio, Hi fi and so on.
> Her duties include _*cleaning*_ the place,_* looking after the baby *_when we are busy and _*serving guests *_that visit us.
> It's the norm here for richer families to have_* a servant*_.
> Many here do live in huts with no windows and dirt floors as the maid did.



Mate. Do you ever ever re-read your posts? 

A servant? A servant! Fucks sake...

Pay her a decent wage and let her buy her own education. Jesus wept at the brass neck of it all.


----------



## derf (Aug 6, 2008)

Termite Man said:


> I can't do that if I don't know what part of Indonesia you are in



Wonosobo, Central Java.


----------



## derf (Aug 6, 2008)

lights.out.london said:


> Employing a 13 year old girl as a _servant_, you mean. His expression, not mine.
> 
> What next? Up chimneys? Down coal mines. Fucking priceless. The emphasis are mine.
> 
> ...



No coal mines or chimneys here.
It's a hot country so no one has them but there are surfice coal reserves that may end up mined and sent to china if it's not already happening.
In this area there are lots of cottage industries making crackers. It's hot and dangerous work (lots of hot veggie oil about, burns are common) and what she did before working for a doctor at three quid a month and not half as clean a place to sleep.
What's wrong with the word "servant"?
Too out of date or not PC enough. Maybe I could call her a domestic assistant. Would that be OK or change her conditions at all?

Please enlighten me as to what a decent wage would be.


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Aug 6, 2008)

derf said:


> ...Please enlighten me as to what a decent wage would be.


Apparently, the going rate for a cleaner in these parts is 25 riyals per hour.  Plus you're supposed to pay their taxi fare to/from, which amounts to around 30/40 riyals if they get the cheap ones.

My cleaner has a minimum of four hour stints, so she comes round to mine every Monday afternoon, but she doesn't usually work for four hours, because there isn't that much to do, as she doesn't do my laundy or ironing (some people pay her extra to do all their ironing, I simply don't iron stuff).  I give her 150 riyals per week.  So I pay her slightly over the odds in terms of rounding up the taxi fare (even though some days she works for other people in the same building so gets two or three lots of taxi fares for the same journey), plus it works out even better for her because she doesn't do four hours work for four hours pay.  Plus sometimes, if I don't have a hundred and a fifty note, if I just have two hundreds, she gets two hundred.

That's just over 20 quid a week (for 150 riyals, more if I give her 200) for an afternoon's work, kind of comparable to minimum wage or whatever back home in the UK, but certainly more than she'd get for the same work back home in the Philippines.

If you can only afford to pay her four pounds a week, why can't you pay her that for working a couple of mornings or afternoons instead of full time?  Why can't you pay her the same amount of money but get her to do less work for you, and more school work?  I mean, really, how much mess can you make in your house if there's just you, wife and one child?  Don't you or your wife do anything at all to try and maintain cleanliness and order in your own home?

And again, there are charities that have sponsorship schemes.  Have you actually bothered to do any research to find out which ones run those sorts of schemes, and to contact them to tell them there's a desperate need where you are?


----------



## derf (Aug 6, 2008)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Apparently, the going rate for a cleaner in these parts is 25 riyals per hour.  Plus you're supposed to pay their taxi fare to/from, which amounts to around 30/40 riyals if they get the cheap ones.
> 
> 
> That's just over 20 quid a week (for 150 riyals, more if I give her 200) for an afternoon's work, kind of compar............
> ...



Saudi Arabia seems to offer better pay than Indonesia. Seems like here is about the same as your Philippeno maid would get at home. (Bit of a guess)

Yes I am looking around as I agree she would be better off in school but nothing so far.
The reason I accepted her was based on her wish to work for me, her mother's wish for her do do so and my knowledge of her alternatives at the  time.
Nothing has changed so far.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Aug 7, 2008)

I ask again Derf. You say you volunteer at schools in your local area why cant she get free or reduced rate tution in exchange for the time you give them?

You really care about this girls education at all... this is just a point scoring excercise for you.

Pathetic.


----------



## nursey (Aug 7, 2008)

Nasty, unpleasant and distasteful. Thankfully people are more eloquent than i am and can tell you just how wrong you are. Servant. Speechless.


----------



## derf (Aug 8, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> I ask again Derf. You say you volunteer at schools in your local area why cant she get free or reduced rate tution in exchange for the time you give them?
> 
> You really care about this girls education at all... this is just a point scoring excercise for you.
> 
> Pathetic.



If we didn't have a maid I would be unable to go to the schools.




			
				nursey said:
			
		

> Nasty, unpleasant and distasteful. Thankfully people are more eloquent than i am and can tell you just how wrong you are. Servant. Speechless.



Actually I'm a kind heated soul. The man you talk about above would do sod all to help others.


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 8, 2008)

derf said:


> If we didn't have a maid I would be unable to go to the schools.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!





I wonder how the fuck everybody else manages to work without having a servant.

Must be hard.





Woof


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 8, 2008)

I have  a guy cuts my grass. He's east indian via fiji.

Does this make me a bad person?


----------



## derf (Aug 9, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did I ever claim we could not manage without a servant?
It's just that having one makes things easier.

Bark !


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 9, 2008)

derf said:


> Did I ever claim we could not manage without a servant?
> It's just that having one makes things easier.
> 
> Bark !




Errrrrr.

Yes you did, I quoted you....

Here it is again......




> If we didn't have a maid _I would be unable_ to go to the schools.




See?





Woof


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 9, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> I have  a guy cuts my grass. He's east indian via fiji.
> 
> Does this make me a bad person?



wow, Johnny you are so insightful. Read the fucking thread.


----------



## rekil (Aug 11, 2008)

I have nasty feeling that the likes of derf are the future. I for one do not welcome our creepy overlords.


----------



## derf (Aug 12, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> Errrrrr.
> 
> Yes you did, I quoted you....
> 
> ...



I could always stop doing the school visits and the anti drugs stuff but would that help anyone?
Lets see now it cost me to do them in both time and fuel so I'll give them a miss like the uncaring bastard that I am.

Bark bark !


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 12, 2008)

derf said:


> I could always stop doing the school visits and the anti drugs stuff but would that help anyone?
> Lets see now it cost me to do them in both time and fuel so I'll give them a miss like the uncaring bastard that I am.
> 
> Bark bark !



Now you're just waffling.




Woof


----------



## lights.out.london (Aug 12, 2008)

The use of the word "servant" sums it up for me. 

All hail the fucking "white man" from his safe European home.


----------



## the Magus (Aug 12, 2008)

derf said:


> I have the cash to keep myself and the family but that's it.
> If I waste it then I won't be able to live here and be forced back into a job.
> Maybe even back to the UK where I don't want to be and my wife even less so.
> As for healthcare she died of diabetes. By the time I found out about it she was in a bad way and all the cash I had would have been spent keeping her alive for a couple of years max.
> ...



You are a wanker with idiotic brainsubstances. Stupid. Really dumb. Random people are not going to send money to someone in Thailand. Scammer? Scammer anyone?


----------



## bmd (Aug 12, 2008)

You probably forgot derf but on the thread where you advocated the death penalty I was asking what good you thought it did to kill drug dealers in your country, as it clearly wasn't a deterrent, to which you never replied. 

Great thread btw.


----------



## derf (Aug 14, 2008)

Bob Marleys Dad said:


> You probably forgot derf but on the thread where you advocated the death penalty I was asking what good you thought it did to kill drug dealers in your country, as it clearly wasn't a deterrent, to which you never replied.
> 
> Great thread btw.



It's great how western people sit at their computers with western attitudes telling me what a bastard I am.
What you miss is that this isn't the UK and there is no free education so those that have no cash have to do whatever they can to survive.
What you need to do is come out to countries like this and spend some time in villages where you will find the truth of the situation. Maybe then you will understand and perhaps even try to help out.

Sorry I missed out on the other thread. My answer would be that they never do it again so that's one less bastard who is willing to make massive profits at the expense of killing people or making their lives a misery.
I honestly can't see the problem with killing them.
After all I'm a 


> You are a wanker with idiotic brainsubstances. Stupid.


                            for employing a young girl in a clean, simple and safe job but a man who would happily put her to work for the likes of Gary Glitter deserves human rights.
I would far sooner be a wanker than a killer.


----------



## George & Bill (Aug 14, 2008)

"paedo"


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 14, 2008)

slowjoe said:


> "paedo"



harsh.


----------



## Aldebaran (Aug 14, 2008)

slowjoe said:


> "paedo"



derf maybe didn't bring a message across as he would like it to come across but that remark of yours totally crosses the line of decency. 

salaam.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 14, 2008)

Agreed


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 14, 2008)

derf said:


> It's great how western people sit at their computers with western attitudes telling me what a bastard I am.



derf,


That's exactly what you are. A western person sitting at your computer with western attitudes.


Give over, FFS.






Woof


----------



## George & Bill (Aug 14, 2008)

The sort of Western person who thinks that, having gone to the East, bought a house, bought a wife, and secured an internet connection, they are unique in their position of being able to judge the ethics of their own circumstances. 

Welcome to the moral high-ground


----------



## derf (Aug 21, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> derf,
> 
> 
> That's exactly what you are. A western person sitting at your computer with western attitudes.
> ...



Sorry took a while to post a reply. Been a bit busy.
I am an Englishman but loosing the western attitudes. You have to here when you start to see the conditions that some have to live in.
Went down to Yogyakarta on monday and say a couple of kids that looked about 5 years old begging at traffic lights. Later I saw a family with two young kids eating on the central reservation at some lights where they beg for money to buy food to take away the hunger.
(I'll post a piccy next time I get to the internet cafe.)

By the way slowjoe I bought as house but met my wife, fell in love and married a year later. No internet and no cash involved.
As for your earier comment it's been answered by others.
I am a lot of things including a gobby bastard but other things I am not.

I thought I had seen a lot in the Uk until I came here. You have to see the poverty to understand what some have to deal with each day.
Again, I'll try to take some photos and post them on photobucket.

Nice bark


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 21, 2008)

derf said:


> Sorry took a while to post a reply. Been a bit busy.
> I am an Englishman but loosing the western attitudes. You have to here when you start to see the conditions that some have to live in.
> Went down to Yogyakarta on monday and say a couple of kids that looked about 5 years old begging at traffic lights. Later I saw a family with two young kids eating on the central reservation at some lights where they beg for money to buy food to take away the hunger.
> (I'll post a piccy next time I get to the internet cafe.)
> ...



Do you think I've not travelled widely in Asia?




Woof


----------



## derf (Aug 21, 2008)

Added. Been a bit busy looking to start a small business exporting small items back to the UK.
Found a suitable product so now I have to sort out the detail and take it from there.
If it works I'll have more cash to spend and so will be able to pay the girl more. That will put her into the range of a government worker at only 13 and nothing to spend money on. Will that be OK for you?
Hope that strikes a slightly happy note with the commies on here.


----------



## derf (Aug 21, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> Do you think I've not travelled widely in Asia?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe more than I have. Did it not make you feel that normal UK life is easy when you see these things?
Made me sit up and think I'll tell you.

One more nice bark.


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 21, 2008)

derf said:


> so will be able to pay the girl more. That will put her into the range of a government worker at only 13 and nothing to spend money on. Will that be OK for you?
> Hope that strikes a slightly happy note with the commies on here.





What part of "it's unacceptable to employ a 13 year old" did you miss?

She should be in school.

Pay for it if you care for her.




Woof


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 21, 2008)

derf said:


> Maybe more than I have. Did it not make you feel that normal UK life is easy when you see these things?
> Made me sit up and think I'll tell you.
> 
> One more nice bark.



The UK is different from Indonesia?

Yes, I agree.


Woof


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 21, 2008)

slowjoe said:


> The sort of Western person who thinks that, having gone to the East, bought a house, bought a wife, and secured an internet connection, they are unique in their position of being able to judge the ethics of their own circumstances.
> 
> Welcome to the moral high-ground



Who judges the ethics of your circumstances?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 21, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> The UK is different from Indonesia?
> 
> Yes, I agree.
> 
> ...



He's right. After seeing life in the third world, you come to appreciate what a piece of piss life is for just about everyone in the developed world by comparison.


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 21, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> He's right. After seeing life in the third world, you come to appreciate what a piece of piss life is for just about everyone in the developed world by comparison.



Well, I think that in East Asia, in general, there is always a wealthy elite - usually comprising a substantial proportion of ethnic Chinese. These people live through their enormous family wealth and business interests, educate their children in international schools, or overseas and control an obscene proportion of the national wealth.

There is also a growing "middle class" - education being the key to leveraging families into this bracket as they take up jobs in the civil service, finance, law, etc.

It's when we begin to make comparisons of the relative "poverty" between developed economies developing that the starkest of differences can clearly be seen.




Woof


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 21, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> Well, I think that in East Asia, in general, there is always a wealthy elite - usually comprising a substantial proportion of ethnic Chinese. These people live through their enormous family wealth and business interests, educate their children in international schools, or overseas and control an obscene proportion of the national wealth.
> 
> There is also a growing "middle class" - education being the key to leveraging families into this bracket as they take up jobs in the civil service, finance, law, etc.
> 
> ...



Well of course there are wealthy elites in any country; but in developing nations, they are small, and are utterly foreign to the lives of most citizens. To the extent that east asian countries are developing middle classes etc, then they are coming out of 'developing nation' status. But for those that remain behind, the truism continues to apply, imo.


----------



## derf (Aug 22, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> Well, I think that in East Asia, in general, there is always a wealthy elite - usually comprising a substantial proportion of ethnic Chinese.
> 
> Woof



That is true but so what?
I have seen first hand how these Chinese families work and half kill themselves so that their kids will have a better life than they did.
I have massive respect for the people willing to do that for their families and hope I'm half the father to my kid that these people are.

It is also true that a good education helps no end for those able to learn but there will always be some less able than others and so end up poorer.
That's just the nature of the world and where fine ideals of equality fail. People are just not equal. Some will always do better than others.

I also agree that a 13 year old working isn't ideal but if you have seen Asia as you say you will know that it isn't an ideal world.
It's a sad fact that if I didn't employ her she would still be working but in far worse conditions than she has with me.
For the poor life here is about doing what you can. They don't have the choices we take for granted in the west. All I can do is give her good working conditions and good food.
Sorry pal but that's the way things are out here and not much I do will change it.
Sorry to be harsh with you but reality isn't always ideal.

An eye opening bark I hope.


----------



## Jessiedog (Aug 22, 2008)

derf said:


> I also agree that a 13 year old working isn't ideal but if you have seen Asia as you say you will know that it isn't an ideal world.
> It's a sad fact that if I didn't employ her she would still be working but in far worse conditions than she has with me.



Send her to school.

You can afford it, if you want to.

But you don't want to - you'd just prefer to employ a 13 year old at GBP 12:00 per month in order to make your life easier.

I know what kind of person you are - at least in this respect.




Woof


----------



## derf (Aug 23, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> Send her to school.
> 
> You can afford it, if you want to.
> 
> ...




I could afford to send her to school but not if I want to have a maid.
If the business goes well in a few months that may change but not at the moment.
I have no income and must be careful not to overspend. If you really want to help I'll get you the school's telephone number. I'm sure that they will give you their bank details so you can transfer funds for her schooling.
That will satisfy your lefty mates and make you feel all warm and fluffy inside. I'll go and employ another girl to do her job. Lots of kids here unable to go to school for lack of cash looking for a good employer.
Anyway what exactly is wrong with 12 quid a month?
This isn't the UK and UK standards don't apply here.
What would you have me do?
Maybe pay UK minimum wage. That would put her in the super income bracket here so so would be the rich fucker employing a maid to do her job at.......
You guessed it, 12 quid a month or less. I am considered a good employer as I pay above the going rate and better working conditions that most. 

What you have to do is return to Asia but this time don't go to bars, get pissed and say you understand a country but open your eyes and take in what you see. If you take the trouble to do so you will see what is real for many people here and how they have to live.
Reading your posts I get the idea you have left wing ideals. Fine but reallity is a fucker for people here if they don't have cash and no matter how wrong you think it is the situation won't change unless people in rich countries get off their arses and help.
When we built the house we used all local traders from the village if we could and bought as much as we could in the village shops. It has made things a little better for others. An injection of cash helped the locals out but it wasn't charity. Again we paid above the going rate to the workers but they had to do an honest days work to get it.
I'm sure you were wondering how much we paid the blokes so I'll tell.
The dogsbodies got 6 quid a week and the skilled guys 12.

By the way the maid next door gets 6 quid a month and works twice the hours doing the housework and them making crackers until the evening.

Isn't reality a total bastard?


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## harpo (Aug 23, 2008)

How about employ someone over school age? Has that been said before? Surely yes.  If you're that arsed, set up a charity for those at a tender age and then people might donate.  

BTW is this the rizla game?  Are you Gary Glitter?


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## derf (Aug 23, 2008)

harpo said:


> How about employ someone over school age? Has that been said before? Surely yes.  If you're that arsed, set up a charity for those at a tender age and then people might donate.
> 
> BTW is this the rizla game?  Are you Gary Glitter?



Again, I could, but I felt sorry for the kid after I found out about her situation.
The more I found out over time the stronger I felt I had done the right thing.
I don't have the resourses to set up a charity but it would do little good unless it could help hundreds of kids in the area or provide work for the parents so they could help their kids.

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=9293359

Mr Gadd is on his way to merry old London. He shags the kiddies. I only employ one as a maid. The kiddie fiddler things been done by another poster. A little unfairly I may add.

What I would do is suggest you take a holiday in this or another poor country to see what life is really life for many people. Perhaps then you may see what is really happening and do something positive to help.

My offer is open to anyone who wants to see the reallity here to act as a tour guide. I'll charge you Rp1,000,000 + your hotel and travel expenses for a weeks tour and take you to see the places tourists never get to see.
If I can get enough people I'll pay for the kid to go to school until she reaches 18 and double to new maid's pay until Yuli leaves school.
Just think your spendos would also go to help local people as an added bonus.

Any takers? I would need at least 10 people to make it work.


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## harpo (Aug 23, 2008)

derf said:


> Again, I could, but I felt sorry for the kid after I found out about her situation.
> The more I found out over time the stronger I felt I had done the right thing.
> I don't have the resourses to set up a charity but it would do little good unless it could help hundreds of kids in the area or provide work for the parents so they could help their kids.
> 
> ...



I've lived in west Africa.  I haven't employed anyone directly but cleaners in places I've stayed haven't been kids.  African friends I have there don't employ kids either unless they're related, in which case they do a few jobs for pocket money.  I'm beginning to have rather a dim view of south east Asia.


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## derf (Aug 23, 2008)

harpo said:


> I've lived in west Africa.  I haven't employed anyone directly but cleaners in places I've stayed haven't been kids.  African friends I have there don't employ kids either unless they're related, in which case they do a few jobs for pocket money.  I'm beginning to have rather a dim view of south east Asia.



Not that many kids employed ouside family locally but loads working in crap conditions for the family. The family has no choice if they are to live.
I think I mentioned before that she worked on the family farm (plot of land) and helped out by making crackers to sell to the locals.
Far worse conditions than she has with me and she didn't go to school at all then.


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## quimcunx (Aug 23, 2008)

harpo said:


> How about employ someone over school age? Has that been said before? Surely yes.  If you're that arsed, set up a charity for those at a tender age and then people might donate.
> 
> BTW is this the rizla game?  Are you Gary Glitter?



The circumstances of Derf's employing this girl has been explained in his previous thread. And yes it has been said before.  All employing someone else does is leave the girl with no job or a worse job.  

@ comments regarding Derf finding £4 a week to educate the girl.  Most people have £4 a week, but few people have an endless supply of £4's a week.  Everyone has some sort of budget they have to stick to.  Derf does. 

The Gary Glitter comment is a cheap shot.


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## harpo (Aug 23, 2008)

derf said:


> Not that many kids employed ouside family locally but loads working in crap conditions for the family. The family has no choice if they are to live.
> I think I mentioned before that she worked on the family farm (plot of land) and helped out by making crackers to sell to the locals.
> Far worse conditions than she has with me and she didn't go to school at all then.



Well I can only reiterate my misgivings about s e asia.  Your average Gambian family wouldn't let their child into the remit of a dubious foreigner no matter how poor they got.


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## harpo (Aug 23, 2008)

The Gary Glitter comment is a cheap shot.[/QUOTE]

Yes it was.  Sorry about that.


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## Jessiedog (Aug 23, 2008)

derf said:


> What would you have me do?



Please see Post # 165.





> What you have to do is return to Asia but this time don't go to bars, get pissed and say you understand a country but open your eyes and take in what you see. If you take the trouble to do so you will see what is real for many people here and how they have to live



Hahahahaha!

Try again.




Woof


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 23, 2008)

derf said:


> What you have to do is return to Asia but this time don't go to bars, get pissed and say you understand a country but open your eyes and take in what you see. If you take the trouble to do so you will see what is real for many people here and how they have to live.



Jessiedog has been living on the Pacific Rim far longer than you, derf.

You'd have known that if you'd been reading his posts properly.


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## George & Bill (Aug 23, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> Who judges the ethics of your circumstances?



No idea


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## derf (Aug 24, 2008)

Harpo. I'm not a "dubious foreigner".
I'm a nice guy once you get to know me.  I have to go to a leaving party soon where some uni types are doing their social work. Been helping them out a little and they want me to visit before they leave the area.
And thanks for the sorry about the glitter bit. 

As for Jessie I would be interested to know where you are and what sort of place you live in.
I'm out in the sticks here in a tiny village.
As I think I said before it never fails to impress me how people here always manage a smile regardless of the shit that life tosses their way.

Right quick look around the forum and off to see the lads.


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## Jessiedog (Aug 24, 2008)

derf said:


> As for Jessie I would be interested to know where you are and what sort of place you live in.



I live in a small village in a sub-tropical rainforest at the foot of a mountain on the shore of a sheltered cove off the South China Sea.





Woof


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## ice-is-forming (Aug 24, 2008)

its the one with the blue roof


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## Jessiedog (Aug 24, 2008)

ice-is-forming said:


> its the one with the blue roof



Aye!




Woof


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 24, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> I live in a small village in a sub-tropical rainforest at the foot of a mountain on the shore of a sheltered cove off the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I wouldn't call it a "small village", Jessie.









More of an "isolated hamlet", wouldn't you say?


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## Jessiedog (Aug 24, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> I wouldn't call it a "small village", Jessie.



Well, there are less than a thousand souls in the village I live in (and almost as many dogs,) and the next village is a few miles away.




> More of an "isolated hamlet", wouldn't you say?



That would be an apt description.











There it is, on the right hand side. A nice shot of the village from around the cove at low tide.






Woof


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## derf (Aug 25, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> I live in a small village in a sub-tropical rainforest at the foot of a mountain on the shore of a sheltered cove off the South China Sea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice place. What country?
Must find a piccy of my village. !60 houses and about 500 people give or take.


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## scifisam (Aug 25, 2008)

Def, I'm going to give this one more try:

Imagine you are still living in England. You post on urban. You see a post saying:



> Just to get the people up to speed that have not jet seen the "Good or bad" thread.
> I live in Indonesia with my wife and little baby girl.
> A few months ago we employed a 13 year old girl as a maid. Her family is poor and are unable to send her to school. (You have to pay here after 13).
> I got a hammering from a few about employingf a kid including a silly "sucky suck, fucky fucky" comment from on foolish person.
> ...



What would you think? What would you do?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Def, I'm going to give this one more try:
> 
> Imagine you are still living in England. You post on urban. You see a post saying:
> 
> ...



But, he doesn't live in England.

It's like Iraq. In Iraq, british soldiers are/were shooting people in the street. In London, that wouldn't be acceptable.


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## derf (Aug 25, 2008)

That's the main drag in the village.






About half a mile up the road






Kids on a schools day looking after their family goats in the next village.

Note the houses in the background. They are about average here but some far worse.


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## scifisam (Aug 25, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> But, he doesn't live in England.
> 
> It's like Iraq. In Iraq, british soldiers are/were shooting people in the street. In London, that wouldn't be acceptable.



He's posting to people in England and asking for their money. 

Bear in mind, I'm talking about this thread in particular. I'm not talking about derf employing a 13-year-old (which is where your cultural acceptablity comes in); I'm talking about him asking money from strangers to school this child, based on the OP.


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## derf (Aug 25, 2008)

Just a note as to why such young kids are not in school even when it is free.
The parents are often too poor to buy uniforms, books, pens etc and often have no education themselves so they don't understand the value of it to their kids.
Their priority is to live today and worry about tomorrow when it comes.

Isn't reality a total bastard sometimes?


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## derf (Aug 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> He's posting to people in England and asking for their money.
> 
> Bear in mind, I'm talking about this thread in particular. I'm not talking about derf employing a 13-year-old (which is where your cultural acceptablity comes in); I'm talking about him asking money from strangers to school this child, based on the OP.



I think I mentioned before I didn't expect anyone to come up with any cash but at least a few people can now see the situation here for many and maybe even donate to education charities to help out kids in poor countries.

I don't know this one but it gives you the idea.
http://y-n-m.org/index.php?id=charity_education_sulawesi

You will note the bit where it says about half the population is on less than 2 US/day. That's not the half of it I'll tell you.
I've invited people in for dinner just because they haven't had a reasonable meal in a week.


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## scifisam (Aug 25, 2008)

derf said:


> I think I mentioned before I didn't expect anyone to come up with any cash but at least a few people can now see the situation here for many and maybe even donate to education charities to help out kids in poor countries.
> 
> I don't know this one but it gives you the idea.
> http://y-n-m.org/index.php?id=charity_education_sulawesi
> ...



You didn't mention any of that with your OP. 

This whole thread would have been very different if you had; people here do know just how shit situations can be for people elsewhere, but those who care are already doing what they can. Your haranguing, scam-type OP wouldn't encourage anybody who wasn't already interested. Honestly, would it have encouraged you?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> He's posting to people in England and asking for their money.
> 
> Bear in mind, I'm talking about this thread in particular. I'm not talking about derf employing a 13-year-old (which is where your cultural acceptablity comes in); I'm talking about him asking money from strangers to school this child, based on the OP.



I still don't get the relevance of asking 'what if you were in England doing this'.


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## butchersapron (Aug 25, 2008)

derf said:


> I think I mentioned before I didn't expect anyone to come up with any cash but at least a few people can now see the situation here for many and maybe even donate to education charities to help out kids in poor countries.
> 
> I don't know this one but it gives you the idea.
> http://y-n-m.org/index.php?id=charity_education_sulawesi
> ...



You cock.


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## scifisam (Aug 25, 2008)

Johnny Canuck2 said:


> I still don't get the relevance of asking 'what if you were in England doing this'.



The point wasn't 'what if you were in England doing this.' It was 'what if you were in England reading this.' He was aiming his post at people posting in England, mainly.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 25, 2008)

scifisam said:


> The point wasn't 'what if you were in England doing this.' It was 'what if you were in England reading this.' He was aiming his post at people posting in England, mainly.



What does your global positioning matter? It's possible to be in UK, and sustain the mental framework necessary to understand what it's like in some other society, somewhere else in the world.


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## derf (Aug 25, 2008)

butchersapron said:


> You cock.



Why am I cock?

For employing the kid, for mentioning it or for trying to get people to understand the reasons why kids often don't go to school and trying to do something about it.
If the thread made just one person think a little or even do something positive about helping it's worth it.
As me me looking a twat. No problem. After all it's just an internet forum and not the real me.

I do help out in schools and work with the local cops on anti drug stuff. I am trying to do the right thing and help out those who need a lift up.
Care to do the same?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 25, 2008)

derf said:


> Why am I cock?
> 
> For employing the kid, for mentioning it or for trying to get people to understand the reasons why kids often don't go to school and trying to do something about it.
> If the thread made just one person think a little or even do something positive about helping it's worth it.
> ...



Thanks for the photos, btw. It's always illuminating to see another part of the world through someone else's eyes.


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## Jessiedog (Aug 25, 2008)

derf said:


> Nice place. What country?



China.




> Must find a piccy of my village. !60 houses and about 500 people give or take.



Nice place, very rural.





Woof


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## butchersapron (Aug 25, 2008)

derf said:


> Why am I cock?
> 
> For employing the kid, for mentioning it or for trying to get people to understand the reasons why kids often don't go to school and trying to do something about it.
> If the thread made just one person think a little or even do something positive about helping it's worth it.
> ...



Yep, for all those reasons and more.


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## derf (Aug 27, 2008)

Jessiedog said:


> China.
> 
> Nice place, very rural.
> 
> Woof



The village is a great place to live. Nice and quiet. Sadly in the cities some have it really rough. At least everyone has a home of sorts and food.
Have a nice photo of a family who beg at traffic lights to get their food.
Sorry I didn't see the young girls I mentioned before so no pic.






I would love to visit China but I don't think that chance will come now.
Wife family and so on to consider.


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## derf (Oct 3, 2008)

Just time to give you boys and girls an update.
Sacked the maid so I'm not exploiting child labour any more.

No idea what she will do now but that's not my problem.


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## whoha (Oct 3, 2008)

why?


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## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2008)

We all know why but it'd be crude to point it out. So I'm just going to imply it heavily


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## purves grundy (Oct 3, 2008)

What a bizarre thread.


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## derf (Oct 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> We all know why but it'd be crude to point it out. So I'm just going to imply it heavily



Please say so without pictures.
I would love to hear your views.


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