# Apple’s Beta 3D Maps In iOS 6 Beat Google’s Finished Maps & Have Twice The Cities Covered! [Video]



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 10, 2012)

Not sure how big a deal 3D maps are yet but this video is pretty stark, Apple's unfinished beta maps are already better detailed and apparently has twice the number of cities than Google's finished product. Map wars anyone?



Are 3D maps really important to you? Do you actually need your city rendered in incredible detail for your mobile device?


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## souljacker (Aug 10, 2012)

I use google maps almost exclusively for navigation so the whole 3d buildings thing is eye candy to me rather than a must have so I'm not really bothered.

One thing I do use google earth for though is wireless link planning so the buildings thing could be useful but in the UK, it tends to be trees that get in the way rather than buildings so I doubt this 3d nonsense is really going to be better than a physical site survey.

Either way, until the whole of the UK has been fully mapped in 3d, its pretty pointless.


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## editor (Aug 10, 2012)

Can't say how excited I would be to discover marginally improved 3D textures in cities I'm probably never going to visit, with the bonus of added load times. Well worth a thread of its own!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 10, 2012)

The 3D maps are nice eye candy, but for navigation they're shit. You can't beat a standard top down map view IMO.


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## mrs quoad (Aug 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Can't say how excited I would be to discover marginally improved 3D textures in cities I'm probably never going to visit, with the bonus of added load times. Well worth a thread of its own!


Just like this was worth a post of its own, ay


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## ChrisFilter (Aug 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Can't say how excited I would be to discover marginally improved 3D textures in cities I'm probably never going to visit, with the bonus of added load times. Well worth a thread of its own!



You've posted tonnes of equally specific threads.

Anyway, really not a big deal - slightly better res will appeal to iFans but the average person won't care.

3D mapping in itself is cool though. Especially for house hunting.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 10, 2012)

Doesn't street view do enough of a good job for house hunting, do we really need 3D maps for that?


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## ChrisFilter (Aug 10, 2012)

You wanna check out the garden too


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## elbows (Aug 10, 2012)

My interest in 3D mapping is fairly limited until it is used for stuff. It would be nice to be able to build a variety of games that take place in real-world locations and be able to tap into such data to save a vast amount of effort. I make no prediction about when this might actually happen ina deeply sophisticated and visually rich way, but if economy & society doesnt collapse then I expect it will eventually reach that point.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 10, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> You wanna check out the garden too



Heh good point, doesn't the usual top down sat view help here?


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## fogbat (Aug 11, 2012)

"If I found a dog with an apple-shaped birthmark, I would surely fuck it. Look how far ahead Apple are with their canine units, and those dogs are only in Beta."


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 14, 2012)

Work continues on iOS 6 maps:









> Here’s a handy feature in Apple’s new Maps app in iOS 6: When you’re traveling and you get near to roadworks, or there are roadworks ahead of you, Maps will throw up a new roadworks icon to alert you to them. What’s makes this feature really awesome is that you can then tap on that icon to find out more about the construction, including its start and description.
> 
> It’s a relatively minor feature that’s likely to become super useful. You’ll no longer have to endure traffic jams on your route home from work because of construction; you can simply avoid it.


 
Read the full article.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 15, 2012)

Having tried google earth's 3D mapping have to say not especially impressed, the textures look low quality in detail and the loading is awful.


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Having tried google earth's 3D mapping have to say not especially impressed, the textures look low quality in detail and the loading is awful.


That's because Google's current 3D uses hand-made models for individual buildings, so they vary in quailty and just jump up from the otherwise flat map. For a better idea of what this "new" approach to 3D mapping is like, have a look at Nokia's mapping, which has had this feature for over a year.

http://maps.nokia.com/

This 3D mapping was created by a company called C3 technology, using photogrametry (extracting 3D data from photographs taken from multiple angles). Take a wild guess at who bought C3 technology in October of last year...


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## editor (Aug 15, 2012)

Crispy said:


> This 3D mapping was created by a company called C3 technology, using photogrametry (extracting 3D data from photographs taken from multiple angles). Take a wild guess at who bought C3 technology in October of last year...


McMoneybags?


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## Firky (Aug 15, 2012)

Which one gets you off the Cairngorms in your shorts and tshirt should the weather change?

3D mapping is a bit of a novelty IMO, it is handy for the military and such like but for Joe Bloggs it seems a bit pointless to me. I just need to know where to go, I can do the rest with my own eyes and brain.



Crispy said:


> That's because Google's current 3D uses hand-made models for individual buildings, so they vary in quailty and just jump up from the otherwise flat map. For a better idea of what this "new" approach to 3D mapping is like, have a look at Nokia's mapping, which has had this feature for over a year.
> 
> http://maps.nokia.com/
> 
> This 3D mapping was created by a company called C3 technology, using photogrametry (extracting 3D data from photographs taken from multiple angles). Take a wild guess at who bought C3 technology in October of last year...


 
You stole my post, I wanted to look the smart arse


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 15, 2012)

Crispy said:


> That's because Google's current 3D uses hand-made models for individual buildings, so they vary in quailty and just jump up from the otherwise flat map. For a better idea of what this "new" approach to 3D mapping is like, have a look at Nokia's mapping, which has had this feature for over a year.
> 
> http://maps.nokia.com/
> 
> This 3D mapping was created by a company called C3 technology, using photogrametry (extracting 3D data from photographs taken from multiple angles). Take a wild guess at who bought C3 technology in October of last year...



Oh I don't doubt it can be done well was just surprised by Google's poor efforts.


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## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Interesting piece of background as to what goes into Google maps and the upcoming battle with Apple:


> You know Google's Street View cars? You probably thought they were just gathering photos and route data, right? Well it turns out there's more.
> 
> Under the hood of Google maps is the Ground Truth Project: an automated, artificial intelligence system which scans and interprets those streetview shots for relevant information and then integrates it into Google's maps data. It could be the reason why Apple will struggle to keep pace with the Mountain View monolith in the mapping wars.
> 
> ...


http://gizmodo.com/5941882/why-apple-might-have-a-hard-time-keeping-up-with-google-maps


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

Ground Truth? Bit Orwellian sounding ain't it?!


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

They might be very pretty and have truly awesome 3D, but it looks like Apple's maps are seriously lacking elsewhere:


> Apple’s Maps App: Just How Bad Is It?
> Apple bought three mapping companies to make this happen, and has had years to refine it. How bad could it be?
> The answer, I’m sad to say as an Apple fan, is very bad indeed. Almost unusably bad. Maps takes all the trust Apple has built up among its users over the years — trust that its products _just work_ — and squanders nearly all of it in one go.
> http://dashes.com/anil/2012/09/who-benefits-from-ios6s-crappy-maps.html





> The classic criticism that thoughtless Apple haters use against the company is that it makes products that are pretty but dumb. Usually those criticisms are by people who don't understand the value of a comprehensible user experience, frustrated by the reality that many people will eagerly trade the open-ended technologies of competitors for the simple and satisfying experience that Apple provides.
> But this time, they're right: Apple's made a new product that actually is pretty but dumb. Worse, they've used their platform dominance to privilege their own app over a competitor's offering, _even though it's a worse experience for users_. This is the new Maps in iOS 6...
> 
> Apple made this maps change despite its shortcomings because they put their own priorities for corporate strategy ahead of user experience. That's a huge change for Apple in the post-iPod era, where they've built so much of their value by doing the hard work as a company so that things could be easy for users. I'm not suggesting (yet) that this is a pattern, and that Apple will start to regularly compromise its user experiences in order to focus on its squabbles with other tech titans. But history shows that dominant players in every era of operating system history have reached a turning point where they shift from the user experience and customer benefits which earned them their dominance to platform integration efforts which are primarily aimed at boxing out competitors. It'll be interesting to see which direction Apple's maps follow.
> http://dashes.com/anil/2012/09/who-benefits-from-ios6s-crappy-maps.html


The lack of Street View is insane too. 3D fly-bys may look lovely, but they're nowhere near as useful as street view.


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

They're definitely playing catch-up now


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## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

I hope you're not going to use this to find your way to the 'map war'.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> They're definitely playing catch-up now


As the article above suggests, it looks like this decision was business-led rather than user-experience led which is a disappointing and rather unusual direction for Apple to take.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

mauvais said:


> I hope you're not going to use this to find your way to the 'map war'.


Like some Apple maps users, I'm a bit lost here, sorry. What do you mean?


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## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Like some Apple maps users, I'm a bit lost here, sorry. What do you mean?


I have no idea what you can possibly not understand.


Kid_Eternity said:


> Map wars anyone?


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

It looks like they really rushed this release as it's clearly nowhere near ready to compete with Google. Would the Apple of, say, 18 months ago released such a half-cocked release?


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

mauvais said:


> I have no idea what you can possibly not understand.


Ah, OK, so they were screengrabs from Google and Apple Maps? I thought there was something significant about the location, hence my bafflement.

I need a coffee, I think.


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## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

It's probably just the fog of map war.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

What is that map of, btw?


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## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

Don't know, somewhere in the UK. It's from here: http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/20/apple_fans_slam_ios_6_map_app/


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## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

Calling something 'beta' is no excuse for shoddy features. I really hope they're pouring some of their huge resources into improving Maps and Siri.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Don't know, somewhere in the UK. It's from here:http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/20/apple_fans_slam_ios_6_map_app/


Looks a bit posh.


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Looks a bit posh.


Nope


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Nope


You bothered to look it up! I was noting what looked like a slew of tennis courts opposite, so assumed some poshness.


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

Took less than 20 seconds


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Took less than 20 seconds


Not sure why you bothered, but well done anyway.


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## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Nope


Hey, it's got trees! Or at least it did in 2008, before the ravages of the Map War.


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Not sure why you bothered, but well done anyway.


Because I prefer facts rather than assumptions


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Hey, it's got trees! Or at least it did in 2008, before the ravages of the Map War.


Some old folks out there even remember the Ordnance Survey vs  Bartholomew wars.

Back then, they'd fight over contour lines and physically grapple over boundary markings, with rival gangs trying to physically move them around to where they thought they should go. It got pretty messy back in the day.


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## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

Here's what it looks like now.







Ho ho ho ho ho cont'd p93...


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

I hate Apple maps, in part because my town is black & white once you zoom past a certain point.

Its not surprising Apple did this when we consider where they are trying to go with Siri. They should have made it a lot better before releasing it, but Im not terribly surprised they didnt, they have dropped the ball with software/services in the past.

They arent the only ones doing it. Amazon is trying to get away from Google Maps on its android tablets: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/18/amazon_google_map_bmrush/


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Until Google Maps stops being the best there is - and I suspect it's going to be a long time before a credible rival emerges - that's what I'll keep on using.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

It's puzzling they switched from a product with ten years development to one built in house in what looks like a year. The 3D is fun, I don't miss street view as it was never a big deal for me anyway but generally I just don't like the look of it, it feels cartoon like rather than cartography orientated...


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's puzzling they switched from a product with ten years development to one built-in house in what looks like a year. The 3D is fun, I don't miss street view as it was never a big deal for me anyway but generally I just don't like the look of it, it feels cartoon like rather than cartography orientated...


It's actually three years work, has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars and involved the acquisition of three other companies and a partnership with Tom Tom.

Street View is incredibly useful when you're travelling to a location you don't know. I use it regularly. I have little need for 3D fly-pasts, no matter how pretty and/or clever they may be because I generally walk to places rather than hover my way there.

http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/start-ups-behind-the-new-apple-maps.html


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

I bet Tom Tom arent enjoying having to defend the quality of their data due to the half-baked way Apple have made use of it so far.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19659736




> TomTom, which also licenses data to a range of other mobile manufacturers, defended its involvement.
> A spokesman told the BBC that its maps provided only a "foundation" to the service.
> "The user experience is determined by adding additional features to the map application such as visual imagery," a spokesman said.
> "User experience fully depends on the choices these manufacturers make.
> "We are confident about our map quality, as selling 65 million portable navigation devices across the world and more than 1.4m TomTom apps for iPhone in the past two years reaffirms this quality."


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

It's a lose-lose all round!


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

elbows said:


> I bet Tom Tom arent enjoying having to defend the quality of their data due to the half-baked way Apple have made use of it so far.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19659736



I don't know why they just didn't use open maps tbh...


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## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm just going to use the Google maps web app, and send a shortcut to my home screen.


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## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

All this whining is good and you can bet its got Apples's attention. It's obvious an alternative to google would take time to develope and I'm just glad to see the beginnings of an end of a monopoly that had the potential to turn nasty as seen by via its fee charging.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> All this whining is good and you can bet its got Apples's attention. It's obvious an alternative to google would take time to develope and I'm just glad to see the beginnings of an end of a monopoly that had the potential to turn nasty as seen by via its fee charging.


But in this case it's the customers who are coming second to Apple's policy of pursuing their own commercial self-interest.

Not sure that's a good thing for consumers myself.


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## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

It will eventually get there and in the meantime I can always access google maps via Safari  (until an app is released).


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Maps has officially reached pr nightmare levels. Apple might be in a right tizzy!


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Maps has officially reached pr nightmare levels. Apple might be in a right tizzy!


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Why Apple went up against a ten year old product from a company that sunk huge amounts of resource into it with an inferior offering is beyond me.


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Maps has officially reached pr nightmare levels. Apple might be in a right tizzy!


 
They should have known this would happen for months now. If developers with early iOS 6 access were not under NDA then we'd have heard lots more about it before yesterday.


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why Apple went up against a ten year old product from a company that sunk huge amounts of resource into it with an inferior offering is beyond me.


 
Arrogance combined with their battle against Google and, quite importantly, their whole strategy with Siri, searching for businesses etc.

If I were them I'd have started more gently, by just using their own offering for Siri to start with, and leaving the main maps app as google maps, offering both APIs for a while, etc. But their animosity towards google and the fact that licensing deal had apparently expired and they didnt want to renew it, lead them to this unhappy moment.

MobileMeMapsSuckMuckWTFYuck


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why Apple went up against a ten year old product from a company that sunk huge amounts of resource into it with an inferior offering is beyond me.


This may be a clue:





and


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

It really is an utter disaster:


> BBC presenter Rory Cellan-Jones (@ruskin147) took to Twitter to point out that, should you search for Luton, you find out that it's been relocated to the seaside. "Got to say this for Apple maps - it's made the idea of moving to Luton a lot more attractive," he posted.
> The BBC also points out that the West Midlands town of Hagley has been incorrectly labeled "Dudley" instead, which is more than seven miles away.
> Indeed, our own search for another West Midlands town, Stourbridge, failed to find it at all. Not even the train station Stourbridge Town. Instead, Apple Maps would only find Minton Stourbridge LLP, a company based in Paddington, London.





> Others post that Paddington Station has disappeared (which will be problematic for Minton Stourbridge LLP's business, whatever that may be) and London itself had been relocated to Ontario. However, the worse problem found yet is that a new airfield has mysteriously appeared in Dublin, which has prompted the Republic of Ireland's justice minister Alan Shatter to contact Apple over safety issues.


http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47639/apple-maps-gate-io6-problems


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## gabi (Sep 20, 2012)

theres a lot of lulz here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/20/apple-maps-ios6-station-tower


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Still, you'll have no problem finding Colchester.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Apple have decided they didn't like where Pontypridd was, so have moved it 6 miles NW, and dumped on top of where Tonypandy should be






https://twitter.com/AlunRhydian/status/248791089690071040/photo/1


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

This is terrible. It's obviously not up to scratch. Makes me wonder if Google forced their hand.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> This is terrible. It's obviously not up to scratch. Makes me wonder if Google forced their hand.


Anything of substance behind that rumination?


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Anything of substance behind that rumination?


If I knew something I'd say "know" rather than "wonder"


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

A Tumblr account has been launched!








http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> If I knew something I'd say "know" rather than "wonder"


Gotcha. So it's just a random "blame Google" thought because, um, err.. why exactly?


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Gotcha. So it's just a random "blame Google" thought because, um, err.. why exactly?


My reasoning went like this:

Apple don't like to release things that aren't polished to a shine. Maps for iOS6 is blatantly unpolished and untested. Therefore, there might be other reasons why it was released so soon. It might be, as others have already said, that Apple wants control over everything in the out-of-the-box experience. It might be because negotiations over the continued licensing of Google's data fell apart. Maybe Google got greedy. I don't know. It seemed to me to be a possibility, so I voiced it.


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## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Playin with the new maps app, the software actually seems to work quite well. The mapping data looks like its the main problem, and I think that came from tomtom :hmm;


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> My reasoning went like this:
> 
> Apple don't like to release things that aren't polished to a shine. Maps for iOS6 is blatantly unpolished and untested. Therefore, there might be other reasons why it was released so soon. It might be, as others have already said, that they want control over everything in the out-of-the-box experience. It might be because negotiations over the continued licensing of Google's data fell apart. Maybe Google got greedy. I don't know. It seemed to me to be a possibility, so I voiced it.


I prefer facts rather than assumptions


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Apple don't like to release things that aren't polished to a shine.


 
Hasnt stopped them in the past, especially when it comes to services on a network as opposed to well made hardware-software goodies. MobileMe sucked and Jobs was very much alive at the time.


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## Crispy (Sep 20, 2012)

EDIT: Again I waste my time with this shit


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## Sunray (Sep 20, 2012)

I expect that Google will release their version as an App soon. Can always use the website, not quite as good but given its a iOS web app, its still very quick and good.


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## gabi (Sep 20, 2012)

some of these are fucking brilliant


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## Badgers (Sep 20, 2012)




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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)




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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> EDIT: Again I waste my time with this shit


Come on. Lighten up. You asked for that one.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Love the city in the river!


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

I wonder how long it will be before some idiot tries to sue Apple over wrong directions and/or loss of earnings/false representation or whatever the mad stuff their courts deal with?


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## Badgers (Sep 20, 2012)

Christmas comes early for Ed


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)




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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Christmas comes early for Ed


I'd be enjoying it just as much as if it was Google/Nokia maps or anyone else - these graphics are hilarious.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)




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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)




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## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Still, you'll have no problem finding Colchester.


Lest we forget the brave pilots of World War One that gave their lives to bring you Apple Maps.


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Although Im not at all surprised this happened, it is quite amazing just how badly they've botched it. I doubt there are many people in the world who could spend 5 minutes with the app and not declare that it was unfit for release. Even if the flaws were only visual it is unacceptably bad, the way that tiles of different resolutions are stitched together looks hideous. And everywhere there are signs that no human with the power to fix it went over areas of maps to spot obvious flaws. There are relatively large population centres that they've totally failed to buy higher res satellite imagery of, nobody checked for cloud cover on some tiles that make them totally unsuitable, etc.

Those with a suitable device might want to try zooming in on Tamworth in the midlands for an example of low-res colour running into high res black and white thats totally ruined by clouds.

It should be put in textbooks as a classic example of what not to do when developing a mapping app or when swapping one from service provider to another.


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## gabi (Sep 20, 2012)

Maps is the thing I use most on my iPod. I won't be upgrading.


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Very occasionally one of the screenshots isnt a fair reflection of the product. That London globe one is a great example, does not reflect my experience at all.

Other problems with the app:

Its crashed on me several times.
Im finding the multitouch quite badly done, and smoothness of movement and loading of tiles is pretty bad at times too. Trying it on a 3rd gen ipad.


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## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

This is going to totally overshadow tomorrow's big launch.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Apple seems to like shunting towns into the sea.


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

If I zoom out till its a relatively small globe then I can get the 'continental label' problems to show up in absurd ways.

When you move the globe so that a particular continent starts to disappear, its label doesnt disappear quickly, its still bound to the continent even though that continent is now on the unseen side of the globe. So when you slowly move the globe round you can make labels such as 'North America' appear over the top of Africa.


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## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

this is pretty fucking funny to be fair 

apple seem to be trying screw everything at the moment. 

change the connector, remove the network port, make them drive into the sea...


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

The like their parks big in Poland. 







If you fancy a takeaway, you've got to dive in the Leeds and Liverpool canal.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Basingstoke looks nice these days:


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Someone's taken a b ig bite out of the Cayman islands!


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> This is going to totally overshadow tomorrow's big launch.



If it means no tedious high five/whooping posts then I'm all for it.


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## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If it means no tedious high five/whooping posts then I'm all for it.


You can't censor what happens on the day.
After all, it's an important part of the carefully managed and manipulated Apple launch experience (TM) and if that's what happens on the day, then it's only right that it should be commented on and, if appropriate, the piss ripped bountifully.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Apple better get an update out for maps pronto, this is a global pr fuck up!


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## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

it's like a Samsung launch but with more people and fewer magicians


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> it's like a Samsung launch but with more people and fewer magicians


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## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


>


http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2180880/samsung-galaxy-s3-launch-fails-attract-iphone-crowds


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## magneze (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> This is terrible. It's obviously not up to scratch. Makes me wonder if Google forced their hand.


If the data's from Tom Tom, how come it's so bad? They've been in mapping longer than Google!


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 20, 2012)

Have you ever used one? The rows El Jugs and I have had when borrowing his dads Tom Tom. 
I have to admit none of this has surprised me - it took Google years to get where they are so how Apple thought it could do similar in such a short space of time.


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## paolo (Sep 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> My reasoning went like this:
> 
> Apple don't like to release things that aren't polished to a shine. Maps for iOS6 is blatantly unpolished and untested. Therefore, there might be other reasons why it was released so soon. It might be, as others have already said, that Apple wants control over everything in the out-of-the-box experience. It might be because negotiations over the continued licensing of Google's data fell apart. Maybe Google got greedy. I don't know. It seemed to me to be a possibility, so I voiced it.



The same thing crossed my mind. Neither side has, AFAIK, gone public on the detail, so it remains a possibility.

One thing that is also odd is the reports of misplaced towns. One would assume that's in the base data from Tom Tom. Would be strange for that to have been corrupted, although possible of course.


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## paolo (Sep 20, 2012)

Ah... pinkmonkey possibly shedding light on the basic map data issue.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

The 3D maps are pretty damn detailed, just was whizzing about Rome looking at the Colosseum.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

My (recent) TomTom sat nav works fine - I've never noticed it give poor guidance, except where the map data pre-dates changes in the real world.

Then again it doesn't do any of these things.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

The excellent Citymapper just pushed out an update, mentions integrating with Apple Maps providing transport info. Updating now, be interesting to see how this works...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

mauvais said:


> My (recent) TomTom sat nav works fine - I've never noticed it give poor guidance, except where the map data pre-dates changes in the real world.
> 
> Then again it doesn't do any of these things.



Tom Tom basically said it ain't us guv, statement out saying they only provide the foundations for car based journeys and licensees use that and build on top with their own interfaces/ info etc....


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Tsk tsk. Naughty Apple caught stealing a clock design for iOS6. 

That's got be worth at least a $1bn in compensation! 





http://mashable.com/2012/09/20/swiss-federal-railways-clock/


----------



## Winot (Sep 20, 2012)

gabi said:


> Maps is the thing I use most on my iPod. I won't be upgrading.



Beginning to wish I hadn't too. Can't quite believe the fuck up. If as it appears it's something quite fundamental that's wrong, it's hard to see how they're going to fix it quickly.

So how likely is it Google Maps will be allowed onto the app store?


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

I quite like the mind bending art effects on these:


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

(((Doncaster)))


----------



## Supine (Sep 20, 2012)

Nottingham has turned into a black and white smog covered mess. Oh dear!


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

You wouldn't want your plan to land at Vilnius Airport


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

Winot said:


> So how likely is it Google Maps will be allowed onto the app store?


There's loads of google ios apps already so it shouldn't be a problem, but it might be smart for google to hold back for a short time to highlight their maps as an android feature.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Winot said:


> Beginning to wish I hadn't too. Can't quite believe the fuck up. If as it appears it's something quite fundamental that's wrong, it's hard to see how they're going to fix it quickly.
> 
> So how likely is it Google Maps will be allowed onto the app store?



As likely as all the other Google apps? 

It's an incredible fuck up, the whole "This would have never happened under Jobs." line always looked like a doomsayers obsession but it really looks like the case here. Time for a #SackTimCook hashtag?


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

I love this one:


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's an incredible fuck up, the whole "This would have never happened under Jobs." line always looked like a doomsayers obsession but it really looks like the case here. Time for a #SackTimCook hashtag?


I hesitated to make that comment, but I can not *ever* imagine Steve Jobs letting something as comically awful as this being released on an Apple device, whatever the cost.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Nice airport.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

The Verge has a good commentary: 


> The major new feature of the company's new iOS 6 mobile operating system is a new mapping module developed by Apple itself — a replacement for the Google-supplied maps that have been standard on the iPhone since it debuted in 2007. It is a change borne not of user demand, but of corporate politics: Google's Android platform is the biggest competitive threat to the iPhone, so Apple is cutting ties with Google. iPhone owners might have loved Google Maps, but Apple has no love for Google.
> 
> Unfortunately, Apple's new maps are simply not as good as Google's. The release of iOS 6 yesterday was immediately followed by users complaining about the new maps, which lack a significant amount of detail and omit public transit directions. Access to high-quality maps is a critical feature for modern smartphones, and Apple's decision to swap out Google Maps is a rare example of the company openly placing its own interests above those of its customers...
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

In answer to a point raised earlier:



> So who decided that the iPhone and iPad would no longer have Google's map data – Apple or Google? "Duh – not Google," a well-placed source at one of the companies told me on Thursday afternoon.
> 
> *Which means that the pain that Apple is now feeling, as people lambast it for flaws in its maps offering, is entirely self-inflicted.*
> 
> ...


This seems to puts Apple in a bit of a difficult situation if Google release an iOS map app....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Apple have released a statement:



> “Customers around the world are upgrading to iOS 6 with over 200 new features including Apple Maps, our first map service,” said spokeswoman Trudy Miller. “We are excited to offer this service with innovative new features like Flyover, turn by turn navigation, and Siri integration. We launched this new map service knowing it is a major initiative and that we are just getting started with it. Maps is a cloud-based solution and the more people use it, the better it will get. We appreciate all of the customer feedback and are working hard to make the customer experience even better.”



Curious about that line that the more users use the maps the better it'll get, didn't they say this about Siri?


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Its just PR, whats the point analysing it.

If I say 'Fish!' to Siri, it gives me some fish & chip shops that are located 5 miles away in the next town, not the one at the bottom of my street or another of the others in my town.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Love to know how the satellite maps are going to improve by people using them.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

These guys can't wait to see the shonky maps on the bigger screen.



http://instagram.com/p/Pz15oBg0y4/


----------



## Firky (Sep 20, 2012)

This made me laugh, the irony of it 



> "I [searched] 'iPhone Repair' and 'iPad Repair' since that's relevant to our business. The results broke my heart."


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19659736


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

> A search for Manchester United Football Club directs users to Sale United Football Club, a community team for ages five and above.


 


I think UK users have it much worse than US ones.


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Siri doesn't seem to know that my town has a train station on the west coast mainline. It sends me to every other train station. And rather inexplicably I just asked it where the nearest apple store was and it 'didnt find any places matching apple store'.

Yes Im having fun combining the joys of siri with their mapping woes, since I dont have a recent iPhone so this is the first time I get to try siri out for myself on an iPad. It does recognise my voice pretty darn well.

When I said 'crap maps' to siri it showed my current location on the apple map.


----------



## newbie (Sep 20, 2012)

mauvais said:


> My (recent) TomTom sat nav works fine - I've never noticed it give poor guidance, except where the map data pre-dates changes in the real world.
> 
> Then again it doesn't do any of these things.


I don't drive a lot but I've had tomtom since about 2004 and found it's mapping trustworthy & reliable. It knows where towns are, how many exits there are on roundabouts and the difference between streets where people live and a river. 

I don't think blaming tomtom for this fiasco is going to work. 

Overall it's a great shame though, because there's massive scope for improvement to the google maps offering, and I was hoping for something a whole lot better.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

newbie said:


> Overall it's a great shame though, because there's massive scope for improvement to the google maps offering, and I was hoping for something a whole lot better.


The Android Google Maps app was updated yesterday 

Word is that Google is supposedly rushing to get their iOS app out, but availablility has been rumoured to be as far away as "before Christmas."

http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/20/crap-maps/


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Siri thinks my nearest pub is 4.6km away. And it 'wont let me set location-based reminders on this device'.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Google can fuck up too:





More UK based Google fails here, although they've all been fixed now I think:
http://googlemapsfail.tumblr.com/

The blog adds: _Incidentally, full credit to Google for fixing most of the foul-ups we’ve spotted so far. You might even get the impression their engineers read this blog or something_


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Back to Apple's comedy maps:


----------



## newbie (Sep 20, 2012)

ok I'll check out the new Android version- does it still do this sort of thing?




As you zoom in and out the labels change, sometimes it'll tell you where Brixton is, but for this overview of south London it's clear that Myatts Fields South is much more important. 

Which is fine for somewhere local but utterly hopeless for a foreign city where none of the names mean anything much to the causal visitor.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

newbie said:


> As you zoom in and out the labels change, sometimes it'll tell you where Brixton is, but for this overview of south London it's clear that Myatts Fields South is much more important.


I would have thought you'd type in Brixton if you were trying to find the place. Myatts Fields appears in that one zoom level (it's Streatham if you zoom out further) but Brixton appears for every subsequent zoom level in. The new Android update lets you zoom in with one finger, which is rather neat. I like the fact that search history is accessible on both desktop and phone too - handy for checking things you searched for at home.


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

Some of the main shopping streets in my town are almost entirely free of shops according to the map. Luckily there is a branch of 'Dothery Perkins' to keep the locals happy.


----------



## newbie (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> I would have thought you'd type in Brixton if you were trying to find the place. Myatts Fields appears in that one screen grab (it's Streatham if you zoom out further) but but Brixton appears for every subsequent zoom level in. The new Android update lets you zoom in with one finger, which is rather neat. I like the fact that search history is accessible on both desktop and phone too - handy for checking things you searched for at home.


aye, randomly much the same area is called Brixton, Myatts Fields (South!) or Streatham.  You and I both know they're all different places, but (and I speak from experience) in a strange city being unable to see the same locations at different zoom levels is utterly, utterly confusing. Other features come and go as well- prominent roads vanish (or lose prominence) at some zoom levels, major geographical features like or railway lines rivers aren't consistently shown, making it frustratingly hard to understand unfamiliar territory.

One of the key things about Apple products is their attention to just that sort of user-happiness detail, and I was hoping for real improvements in usability.  It never crossed my mind that they'd mess up the basics so badly.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

newbie said:


> aye, randomly much the same area is called Brixton, Myatts Fields (South!) or Streatham. You and I both know they're all different places, but (and I speak from experience) in a strange city being unable to see the same locations at different zoom levels is utterly, utterly confusing.


I have to be honest and say I've never really found that a problem. Once I've searched for the place, a great big marker appears permanently on the map, so I always know exactly where the place is, no matter what the zoom level.


----------



## Firky (Sep 21, 2012)

editor said:


> Google can fuck up too:
> 
> More UK based Google fails here, although they've all been fixed now I think:
> http://googlemapsfail.tumblr.com/
> ...


 
It can but I think the telling thing about that blog is that it is very rarely updated such is the relative rarity of a major Google fucking up. 

In fairness this fuck up is *very* unlike Apple. If this was EA Games or Microsoft I'd have accepted it but Apple?


----------



## Kanda (Sep 21, 2012)

RFLMAO:


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Tahiti looks well funky.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Death defying road at Hoover Dam:


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Here's my favourite. Berlin, _Antarctica._


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Severn Bridge looks a bit choppy:


----------



## Kanda (Sep 21, 2012)

That new bridge at Hoover Dam is bonkers. Not that bonkers though.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## Kanda (Sep 21, 2012)

It's like all Christmases at once for you isn't it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

Kanda said:


> It's like all Christmases at once for you isn't it



Heh someone's going to have to pass the Kleenex soon.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Kanda said:


> It's like all Christmases at once for you isn't it


That _hilarious_ comment has already been made some 80 posts ago. And my answer still stands.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

I have to say some of these weird 3D images really remind me of the visuals of a K hole.


----------



## Firky (Sep 21, 2012)

WTF is going on there? ^

Looks like some A1 Motorway Cruiseliner


----------



## gabi (Sep 21, 2012)

I dont know what's more amusing - the fact that Apple seem to have got Spanish Jesus lady to design their new maps or editor's sheer joy.. great thread either way


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## Kanda (Sep 21, 2012)

already posted #142...


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2012)

editor said:


> I have to say some of these weird 3D images really remind me of the visuals of a K hole.


 
Well you did previously bemoan their lack of innovation. Now they've made a digital cake in the shape of the world and all you do is take the piss out of the icing


----------



## Firky (Sep 21, 2012)

elbows said:


> they've made a digital cake in the shape of the world and all you do is take the piss out of the icing


 
That's quite a good analogy 

Pity the icing is an integral part of the cake!


----------



## Barking_Mad (Sep 21, 2012)

editor said:


> The like their parks big in Poland.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Haha, that's 2 mins down the road from me, oddly the Canal isnt anywhere near that wide (it looks like a river on there!), nevermind having a chinese restaurant in it!


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Barking_Mad said:


> Haha, that's 2 mins down the road from me, oddly the Canal isnt anywhere near that wide (it looks like a river on there!), nevermind having a chinese restaurant in it!


Maybe this one from Regent's Park had sailed up there?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2012)

Kanda said:


> already posted #142...


 
*waves fist at sky


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2012)

OK so the awful business data including pubs that were knocked down years ago and stupid typing mistakes are directly from yelp. Has this service ever gained much traction in the uk? The website reminds me of every other sort of crap business index, with the usual crap model for monetizing it. I guess its quite used in the USA where it mostly seems to have been responsible for stories about business owners getting in a tizzy over user reviews.

Either way if anyone actually cares to help improve these crappy maps, can submit changes on the yelp site if its business data thats bad or missing, and report problems with other stuff to apple from within the map. This is probably what apples shit PR non-apology meant. At this rate they'll be hiring Nick Clegg.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

I went to a groovy Yelp launch in London a few years back I tried it for a while but Google does it better.

I don't think it has many active users so its listings are woefully inaccurate - it still lists the IsoBar in Brixton which closed over a decade ago!


----------



## dervish (Sep 21, 2012)

From what I've read google is waiting for approval for gmaps to be added to the app store, they are hoping to have it out before xmas. If that is true they will make a lot of people very happy, if they have any sense they will also bake in turn by turn and completely steal apples thunder. 

What would be so much funnier would be if apple then rejected it as it "duplicates existing functionality".


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

dervish said:


> From what I've read google is waiting for approval for gmaps to be added to the app store, they are hoping to have it out before xmas. If that is true they will make a lot of people very happy, if they have any sense they will also bake in turn by turn and completely steal apples thunder.
> 
> What would be so much funnier would be if apple then rejected it as it "duplicates existing functionality".


It puts Apple in a quandary.

If they let Google Maps on to iOS then that's going to sound the death knell for their own maps - at least in the medium term - but if they don't let the app on, they face losing sales to those people who really need a decent, working, accurate map app.


----------



## gabi (Sep 21, 2012)

It does seem like a massive midjudgement releasing this shit. A guy I went to school with works at Cupertino, designing their icons. He's told me in the past that each department is very secretive and distrustful of each other. I doubt Jony Ive is leaping for joy over this after he kept up his part of the bargain with a very nice piece of kit.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Ooh, this is pretty. Bumpy water!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2012)

Isnt it a fountain?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

dervish said:


> From what I've read google is waiting for approval for gmaps to be added to the app store, they are hoping to have it out before xmas. If that is true they will make a lot of people very happy, if they have any sense they will also bake in turn by turn and completely steal apples thunder.
> 
> What would be so much funnier would be if apple then rejected it as it "duplicates existing functionality".



And yet another set of rumours says this is bullshit, funny how those that shriek at any posting of rumours are swallowing anything negative about this eh?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2012)

newbie said:


> I don't drive a lot but I've had tomtom since about 2004 and found it's mapping trustworthy & reliable. It knows where towns are, how many exits there are on roundabouts and the difference between streets where people live and a river.
> 
> I don't think blaming tomtom for this fiasco is going to work.
> 
> Overall it's a great shame though, because there's massive scope for improvement to the google maps offering, and I was hoping for something a whole lot better.


 
I had to borrow a tom tom when I left my iphone at my parents (i have navigon on iphone).

I found the tom tom awful, slow glitchy and didnt have quite a few roads marked on it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I had to borrow a tom tom when I left my iphone at my parents (i have navigon on iphone).
> 
> I found the tom tom awful, slow glitchy and didnt have quite a few roads marked on it.



For general drives I've always found it pretty good, smaller roads or those cross field country roads can be crap however but for city and motorway driving never really had an issue.


----------



## Firky (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And yet another set of rumours says this is bullshit, funny how those that shriek at any posting of rumours are swallowing anything negative about this eh?



I read it was BS too but people will believe what they choose to.


----------



## dervish (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And yet another set of rumours says this is bullshit, funny how those that shriek at any posting of rumours are swallowing anything negative about this eh?


 
Swallowing? I read on a couple of articles (one in 9to5mac) saying that google was about to release gmaps, it's not exactly unexpected. Never shrieked at posting of rumours either.  

I can certainly believe the "rumour" that google is going to release their app on ios, if you were in their position wouldn't you? Where have you read that this is bullshit?


----------



## dervish (Sep 21, 2012)

firky said:


> I read it was BS too but people will believe what they choose to.


 
Why?

Surely it's in googles best interest to get people back to their superior application, with all the negative publicity I would have thought they would want to get in asap.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And yet another set of rumours says this is bullshit, funny how those that shriek at any posting of rumours are swallowing anything negative about this eh?


Google have confirmed it along with a better standalone youtube app... 


http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/20/google-exec-comments-on-ios-6-maps-video/


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Google have confirmed it along with a better standalone youtube app...
> 
> http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/20/google-exec-comments-on-ios-6-maps-video/


 
Is that the article you meant to link to? I dont see it mentioning the youtube app, and it doesnt confirm much about maps either.

The only thing it confirms is that google would like their products to be on all platforms. This is not surprising, and indeed I question whether they would have ever bothered inventing android in the first place if they never feared being locked out of having their services provided on the popular mobile devices of the day. Of course they want their services to be available on all platforms, thats the main issue for them, everything else just springs from it and is secondary.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 21, 2012)

Both the original apples


GarfieldLeChat said:


> Google have confirmed it along with a better standalone youtube app...
> 
> 
> http://9to5mac.com/2012/09/20/google-exec-comments-on-ios-6-maps-video/


 
About time really, those apps are pretty much unchanged since the launch on the original iPhone in 2007, the iPhone and YouTube apps were a joint venture, Apple writing the code and Google supplying the data. Market forces seemingly lead to total stagnation.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

elbows said:


> Is that the article you meant to link to? I dont see it mentioning the youtube app, and it doesnt confirm much about maps either.
> 
> The only thing it confirms is that google would like their products to be on all platforms. This is not surprising, and indeed I question whether they would have ever bothered inventing android in the first place if they never feared being locked out of having their services provided on the popular mobile devices of the day. Of course they want their services to be available on all platforms, thats the main issue for them, everything else just springs from it and is secondary.



Yeah those comments are a little vague...


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Fuck me. San Francisco has just been hit by an earthquake!


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Another bumpy landing ahead!


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 21, 2012)

Pure art


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

It's a tsunami of Stockholm buildings!


----------



## Barking_Mad (Sep 21, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Isnt it a fountain?



It's like a SimCity landscape


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Wooargh! The K's kicking in again!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2012)

The station has been closed since 1968.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2012)

Huge rocks invade New York, head for Apple store.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2012)

Going to be a tight landing.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 22, 2012)

Thread on Apple maps: 189 posts, currently 39.7% (_N_=75) of them from the editor


----------



## gabi (Sep 22, 2012)

editor doin his thing, 27 mins ago


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Thread on Apple maps: 189 posts, currently 39.7% (_N_=75) of them from the editor



Lol!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2012)

Reckon this is the best comment so far on this issue:

http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 23, 2012)

When the editor says everyone's talking about it what he means is its all I'm talking about to other people, must be a laugh a minute in his house at the moment...


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2012)

Ah yes. Let's turn it into an attack on me instead.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

Reckon he's got through a few boxes of Kleenex too...


----------



## gabi (Sep 23, 2012)

editor said:


> Ah yes. Let's turn it into an attack on me instead.


 
It's kinda the equivalent of going reposting the same thing time and time again on the bandwithdz thread. You'll be shot down pretty quick there for that kinda thing, quite rightly you have been here too.

Apple fucked up. It's funny. We get it.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2012)

People don't get shot down for posting up new stuff in the bandwidth thread, which often has endless varieties of the same meme. I'm fed up with all these personal attacks. 

Don't like the on topic posts? Then ignore them. This is a thread about Apple's maps. Deal with it and quit whining and having a go at me.


----------



## gabi (Sep 23, 2012)

Not having a go - just not sure constant reposts from that tumblr site are worth their weight in comedy gold.

Apple's fuck-up is a massive one. As a tech journo do you know if this is actually making an impact? Or have people just moved on..? I havent actually heard anyone whinging about in real life.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

gabi said:


> It's kinda the equivalent of going reposting the same thing time and time again on the bandwithdz thread. You'll be shot down pretty quick there for that kinda thing, quite rightly you have been here too.
> 
> Apple fucked up. It's funny. We get it.



Indeed. It was funny the first five times but when you get to a thread and every second post is yet another post from the same blog it gets a little boring.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2012)

Try reading Apple's own forums and other tech forums and you'll get a good idea of how it's affecting users. 

I had a go last night and it got every address I put in wrong. Brixton was in Aldershot and it moved my home village five miles up the Valleys.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2012)

i've deleted Apples failed attempt at map from the bottom four icons and put google maps iOS web app there in its place.

Its nearly as good as the original app. Just doesn't do the compass thing.

Will replace that with Googles one I hope they are going to produce, it has been rumored. Pretty decent workaround, don't know why people are bleating so much.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Reckon he's got through a few boxes of Kleenex too...



If you must post up infantile personal attacks (and I sincerely wish you wouldn't), at least try to be original. 

That puerile comment has already been made.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

Sunray said:


> i've deleted Apples failed attempt at map from the bottom four icons and put google maps iOS web app there in its place.
> 
> Its nearly as good as the original app. Just doesn't do the compass thing.
> 
> Will replace that with Googles one I hope they are going to produce, it has been rumored.  Can live with the Web App thingy till then.



A more sensible course of action...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Thread on Apple maps: 189 posts, currently 39.7% (_N_=75) of them from the editor



Well we didn't need the figures to know that but it is amusing nonetheless.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

editor said:


> Ah yes. Let's turn it into an attack on me instead.


yes why don't we I mean that's the point isn't it to totally derail the thread and prevent people from actually discussing the topic...

That's the object of the continued and pointless trolling isn't it... it's the intent behind your every single post on this subject, you're like a freeper equivalent of a windows fanboi... 

but no sorry to your ego but I couldn't give a fuck, but let's just say your rank hypocrisy has pretty much chased away all insightful comment on the tech forums because of you consistent trolling and your seeming attempt to do so here are basically the same... 

Like I've said repeatedly, you've established this culture...

the rest of us are frankly fed up to the back teeth with your trolling and have asked in a verity of ways for you to stop but you don't... so now we just point and laugh at these pitiful attempts and ignore you...

so no thanks for the offer but we won't turn this into a thread about you, go get your pathetic ego kicks else where, preferably somewhere where someone gives two fucks cos no one here does... 

Jesus, what a fucking peacock batman is when the others decide not to play his game... 

And I'll bet that rather than moderate your moronic postings of this kind you'll get your ban hammer out and start waving it demanding apologies left right and centre rather than having the integrity to admit it's far more than gone too far with your constant caricature derails now...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

editor said:


> If you must post up infantile personal attacks (and I sincerely wish you wouldn't), at least try to be original.
> 
> That puerile comment has already been made.


you seem to have not problem with your own posts repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating the same old shite again and again and again...






why so double standards...


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 24, 2012)

I love the way they'd rather launch a steaming pile of market unready shit than keep google maps. 

They've totally fucked it up here


----------



## gabi (Sep 24, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I love the way they'd rather launch a steaming pile of market unready shit than keep google maps.
> 
> They've totally fucked it up here


 
Yes, they have. But as the guardian points out, it's not the first time. they've always pulled it back. altho those times were under steve jobs' decisive leadership.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/sep/24/apple-maps-problems-list


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 24, 2012)

This isn't a PR failiure. It's a case of them shipping crippled functionality that's central to modern smart phones with a complete disregard for their users.  You can't even get google maps if you want it, they won't let you!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2012)

? maps.google.com works just fine


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 24, 2012)

Fair enough.  No app though.  

Given that  I've a smart phone and the only apps I use are mail and maps this would have pissed me right off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

gabi said:


> Yes, they have. But as the guardian points out, it's not the first time. they've always pulled it back. altho those times were under steve jobs' decisive leadership.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/sep/24/apple-maps-problems-list



Indeed although those were all products that were easy to dump and move on from, maps are kinda a big deal app wise...


----------



## dervish (Sep 24, 2012)

Crispy said:


> ? maps.google.com works just fine


 
Yeah, works fine, but it does miss quite a lot of the functionality of the full app. 

Does apple maps have the stuff like latitude and location history etc? I find stuff like that surprisingly very useful.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2012)

AFAIK, there's no way to access Street View on iOS6 now. 
That's a feature I'd really miss.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 24, 2012)

My housemate was showing me his iPhone 5 yesterday and was all like 'OMG!111!! check out the new maps'

Opened it up and couldnt get anything more than a grey screen


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

sim667 said:


> My housemate was showing me his iPhone 5 yesterday and was all like 'OMG!111!! check out the new maps'
> 
> Opened it up and couldnt get anything more than a grey screen



Two friends were expressing outrage over it at the weekend, I know one who's refusing to update (owned an iPhone since 3G) too, he's not happy.


----------



## gabi (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm not updating it till Google launch their maps app. Being a newish cyclist with the sense of direction of a drunk puppy it's quite crucial to me to know where im going.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

editor said:


> AFAIK, there's no way to access Street View on iOS6 now.
> That's a feature I'd really miss.


well again it shows how little you know doesn't it...

http://www.cultofmac.com/191808/street-view-terrain-transit-how-to-fix-ios-6-maps-feature/

live street view app anyone? google earth app anyone... but so long as the editor doesn't know about it then it doesn't exist...

could you maybe cease commenting on things you haven't got the first clue about rather than this continued fantasist version where you have some direct hotline to the dead steve jobs and he tells you on your Mindphone what features can't and can be had on apple products, you don't have or use or seemingly have anything good to say about....

surely we can have a big old editor talking about apple d-notice STFU can't we...

you might as well if you're going to keep up this continued relentless uninformed commentary complain it doesn't have a 4th run way for Heathrow in IOS6 or there's no cure for cancer in iOS6, you can't use it to prevent heartburn either or indeed save drowning child by throwing it at them as a life preserver... IOS6 can't be used for any of these functions either....

nor seemingly can it be used to stop uninformed technophobes making wild unfounded claims about it...


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2012)

I'm sure your lengthy post is fascinating Garf. Shame I'm not going to read it.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm sure your lengthy post is fascinating Garf. Shame I'm not going to read it.


it is... considering the valid points its making... 


never surrender, never retreat, never admit when you're totally in the wrong...

keep on keeping on.... 

oi oi... etc... 


when did you become a cardboard cut out PK....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm sure your lengthy post is fascinating Garf. Shame I'm not going to read it.


 





the editor earlier today examining what he knew about iOS6... a dark empty cavernous void of nothing...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

Brooding.... 






So tell me Gordon... where is that bakery that used to be here on Google maps...

I can't tell you Batman, I can't tell you...


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2012)

Please can someone explain to Garf what 'AFAIK' stands for before he trolls this thread into oblivion with his clueless ranting and increasingly bizarre picture posting.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

editor said:


> Please can someone explain to Garf what 'AFAIK' stands for before he trolls this thread into oblivion with his clueless ranting and increasingly bizarre picture posting.


does it stand for AS FAR AS I KNOW does it ????

do I win a prize...

had you had the courtesy of reading my previous post you'd have seen clearly that I did; spazo dyslexic that I am (nice reference point once again the spazo dyslexic doesn't understand the naughty confoosing words, poor dear... btw works every time oh yeah, like totally discredits the points being made that does...don't listen to him he's a mad man and a spazo dyslectic too boot...)  

which my response would be well you don't know very much so how about you stop your consistent trolling of the thread with your UNINFORMED BULLSHIT....

Hey, do I win a prize Batman...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 24, 2012)

Ok, so I upgraded the ipad to i0s6 (coz I felt like a bit of excitement this morning) and it is mostly fine apart from a couple of apps that wouldn't update and had to be removed - nav free and Google Chrome ironically.  I will try to reinstall them later. Can't see any other problems although I am tearing my hair out with itunes atm, so I might even risk upgrading that - it can't be any more shite than it is already.......can it? 
We had to find a shop in the next town. Android phone with Google maps found it instantly and gave me directions within seconds. Ipad says no. It said something like, 'we cannot process the request.' It couldn't find the store, basically. Our Tom Tom went funny yesterday as well, totally failed halfway through a journey and I had to use my phone instead. Perhaps it died in sympathy of its Apple maps cousin?
At least my phone is massive and fine for using Google Maps (it's a Galaxy Note).


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 24, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> This isn't a PR failiure. It's a case of them shipping crippled functionality that's central to modern smart phones with a complete disregard for their users. You can't even get Google maps if you want it, they won't let you!


It's more than annoying for those who have added their business to Google Maps (us included).  You have fuck all chance of finding many businesses with Apple Maps, because there's nowhere near as many on the database.  Dunno about anyone else but it's something I use quite often, need a new electric heater, go on Google see which shops sell one and where they are.  They've a lot of catching up to do, thing is I can't see how they couldn't have done anything more than release this clusterfuck as these systems rely on user generated content, until you've got users generating that content of course it's going to be rubbish.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

Given the huge web traffic market share that iOS devices enjoy that's a serious concern for small businesses.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 24, 2012)

Well it isn't clear to me yet how one goes about adding oneself to Apple Maps. With Google it's all integrated, submit your URL, add yourself to the map etc etc.

ETA it is all clear now.  https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4325329?tstart=0


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

100 million iOS devices are now running iOS6, which means 100 million devices no longer potentially giving Google traffic to their maps. Even with the damage to Apple's brand can't help but wonder if Google have taken a bigger hit here. Apple's got a seriously strong brand and any withdrawel from the brand bank can easily be absorbed by them. Their maps will only get better (they have the pressure and the money to ensure it does), in the medium to long term Google are going to feel some discomfort over this.


----------



## elbows (Sep 24, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> Well it isn't clear to me yet how one goes about adding oneself to Apple Maps. With Google it's all integrated, submit your URL, add yourself to the map etc etc.
> 
> ETA it is all clear now. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4325329?tstart=0


 
As I understand it they are using Yelp for their business data, and its pretty awful in the UK. To confirm this, when I searched the yelp database for some entries that had typing errors on the apple map, the exact same mistakes were on the yelp site. So if I had a business I wanted to show up I'd be going to the yelp site and looking at how to add an entry to their database.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 24, 2012)

in the link I added, someone is complaining that the Yelp entries are not showing in Apple Maps, hence the instructions on how to add yourself manually.

I just tried to search for the store that my ipad failed to find today. It's a homewares chain in Royston, Hertfordshire. Yelp came up with a fetish shop called sh! in London. No wonder Apple Maps said, 'we cannot process the request.' They don't 'do' porn do they? 

I've never used Yelp before, perhaps that's why. Dreadful!


----------



## elbows (Sep 24, 2012)

Yelp didnt exactly impress me when I visited the site for the first time the other day, very bad uk data. If it turns out Apple arent even updating the info from that source promptly, thats another unwelcome ingredient in the turd sandwich. It always amuses me when a giant corporation appears to have made a pigs ear out of something to an extent I'm more used to having personally experienced when working for the opposite size of company as they stumbled their way towards solving a problem inadequately with insufficient resources of every kind. They have far better excuses than Apple for this sort of failure.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

There's no Google Maps for iOS coming any time soon - it's been reported that Google has made no move to provide Google Maps for the iPhone 5.


> Talking to reporters in Toyko, Google’s Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt said, “We think it would have been better if they had kept ours. But what do I know?”
> “What were we going to do, force them not to change their mind? It’s their call.”
> Schmidt said Google and Apple were in constant communication, but noted that it’s up to Apple whether an updated Google Maps app would be allowed into the Apple App Store.
> “We have not done anything yet,” he added. [...]


----------



## elbows (Sep 25, 2012)

An app from google wont totally solve the problem. It will for some users, but for users or developers who are relying on a system-wide maps API, Apple maps is it. This can be worked around to a certain extent, but its not a trivial issue for app devs to deal with, not at this point anyway.


----------



## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

How does the Cloud updating thing work then? Do you report an error and get a daily fix or something?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> How does the Cloud updating thing work then? Do you report an error and get a daily fix or something?


All the data is on Apple's servers so you always have the latest version. The app is fine; it's the data that sucks.


----------



## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

so how do they get alerted to errors?


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 25, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> ...I am tearing my hair out with itunes atm, so I might even risk upgrading that - it can't be any more shite than it is already.......can it? .


There's a major update scheduled for October - but given the situation with Maps, who knows what we're going to be getting.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> so how do they get alerted to errors?


----------



## gabi (Sep 25, 2012)

Ah ok... that's gonna take a very long time to sort out then!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

gabi said:


> Ah ok... that's gonna take a very long time to sort out then!


yes and no.  

google has 1100 or so full time permenant staffers in their mapping department and over 6000 contract workers and cartographers... 

Apple less than 500... so yes if they remain on their current levels of staffing it'll take and age... they are however actively recruiting from old google maps staffers at the moment and picking up any contract which have come to the end of life with google... 

So maybe maybe not... 

frankly this is preciesly the kind of area that Jobs would have had no qualms about never getting into.  Why create a system which competes with google on mapping which isn't an apple core business area which isn't key or core to apple revenues which will never be key or core to apple revenues for as long as they are a technology company.  This has all the hallmarks of a new CEO vanity project to assert the 'new' apple direction post Jobs and all the deluisons of grandeur which accompany that.  What possible economic use is a mapping department to apple a hardware manufacturer???? it' has limited use as it stands, limited resale values as due to apples insistence that they won't play well with others or their hardware it won't port to other applications or indeed services outside the apple ecoshephre... it's entirely down to a new broom thinking well gee we pay google 2.6 billion a year for their maps I'll bet if we had our own we could make that money as well and save paying it to google without understanding how and why google make money from their mapping software is tied in with their advertising infrastructure and promotion from webservices something again apple doesn't do and has no ability to do within the IOS frame work... 

it's a really dumb school kid mistake that Jobs would be notoriously have wandered into the department responsible and said "what is it that this is supposed to do exactly?"  and on receiving the response would have replied "Well why the fuck doesn't it do it then?"  before firing the head of the mapping department.

They'll pull it back out of the bag but it's going to cost them a shedload of cash to do it... and it'll be no better than google maps, not to mention have no profit lines so just be an expensive millstone... ala mobile me...


----------



## elbows (Sep 25, 2012)

Im pretty sure they started their mapping efforts before Jobs died you know.

When considering Apples wider strategy, you seem to be forgetting about Siri. I know its a gimmick in many ways, but they still have ambitions for this sort of thing that are quite large in scope, and involve data and services on quite a scale.

Ideally it would be better if Apple felt no need to try to provide all this stuff itself, and relied on 3rd parties. But they fell out with Google and Jobs can have some blame for that. Even though the exact implementation and launch schedule might have changed if Jobs were alive & well, I still see this Apple Maps fiasco as something he enabled, its part of his legacy not simply the consequence of his death.

Much of the problem is that Google is one of the few 3rd parties that has bloody good data, some of the other orgs they are dealing with now or bought up are pretty weak by comparison, so the one partner they felt the need to dump is the one they could least afford to.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

they started the iphone 5 before he died and said it wasn't ready and couldn't launch, maybe this was one reason why... when he was alive... the point being his personal eye for detail and absolutely not allowing a product out the door until it was read wouldn't have allowed this to happen.  I'm sure he had ideas for mapping, I'm sure this wasn't it... I'm less sure now that apple as a company, as is being proved in these little incremental slips has the acumen at the moment to be able to discern or divine a path post Jobs which doesn't mean that like all mega US corps it wants profits to fill shareholders coffers each and every quarter it remains to be seen if they can long term become something greater than one mane maniacal if very clever and refined company... last time they tired to go it alone they fucked up royally by going down a not to dissimilar path to what they are doing now... expanding in to areas they had no business being in and managing them badly...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

So Google have decided to let a 100 million people pay for Apple decision? How very nice of them.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So Google have decided to let a 100 million people pay for Apple decision? How very nice of them.


What do you mean? It was Apple's decision to dump Google Maps.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So Google have decided to let a 100 million people pay for Apple decision? How very nice of them.





editor said:


> What do you mean? It was Apple's decision to dump Google Maps.


the editors right.

it was a decision based on finance as well not on practicality.  As I said another sign that apple are on the wane... 

it was a this will save us billions in licensing and the often false assumption that if your competitors are charging you billions for it that you doing the same thing could charge others billions for it... thus business conceit is born.  This will be a year in year out saving for us not having to spend the billions and our product which replaces it and does the same job will actually make us billions....

except that in all likelihood until past the point of cold start a mapping piece of software costs billions to make and make well... 

particularly if you fail from the get go to get any cartographers involved... 

This was the conceit behind the apple descsion.  My guess is Jobs said once this matures it'll be great, they all said well he's dead we've spent on his say so billions on it we've got to turn a profit and this ain't gonna be it yet, WTF do we do our share holders will have a shit fit if they see how much this is costing.... 

well Mr Cook we'll save some money when it finally launches as we'll not have to pay those bastards at google any more... 

let's pull the trigger and do it now... hell no one will notice I mean it works round here doesn't it... so it'll work everywhere else... besides they can always download google maps for free and we don't have to pay a licence fee for that shit...


----------



## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

Apple is getting into maps because knowing the physical location of their users is incredibly valuable. If you know where they are, or more importantly where they have been and when you then know their habits this is pretty damn useful especially when you can also get the masses of metrics that apple gather from their userbase. Apple owns advertising companies and they know that they can make huge amounts of money if they can sell the same level of targeted advertising as google does. Apple did maps because they already have the enormous made user base to make it profitable. They just need to force the users to help them catch up with google.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> the editors right.
> 
> it was a decision based on finance as well not on practicality.  As I said another sign that apple are on the wane...
> 
> ...



Google have said they haven't submitted an app, they could easily do so.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> Apple is getting into maps because knowing the physical location of their users is incredibly valuable. If you know where they are, or more importantly where they have been and when you then know their habits this is pretty damn useful especially when you can also get the masses of metrics that apple gather from their userbase. Apple owns advertising companies and they know that they can make huge amounts of money if they can sell the same level of targeted advertising as google does. Apple did maps because they already have the enormous made user base to make it profitable. They just need to force the users to help them catch up with google.


but that assumes users will capitulate.  previously they have always done so because the apple tradition is it just works... this doesn't why would they do so in this case...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Google have said they haven't submitted an app, they could easily do so.


That's not according to the video I've posted a few pages back they have and are awaiting review...


----------



## Kanda (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> That's not according to the video I've posted a few pages back they have and are awaiting review...


 


> Reuters reports (via TheNextWeb) that Google's executive chairman Eric Schmidt has denied claims that the company has already submitted a Google Maps application to Apple's App Store.
> _Google Inc. has not submitted a new Google Maps application to Apple Inc after the iPhone maker dropped the use of it in launching its newest device, the head of the world's top search engine provider said on Tuesday._
> The rumor emerged last week shortly after Apple launched iOS 6. In iOS 6, Apple replaced the Google-based Maps on iOS devices with the company's own solution. Apple's Maps have since drawn criticism for areas of poor coverage.
> 
> ...


_http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/25/google-has-not-yet-submitted-a-google-maps-app-to-apple/_


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

Kanda said:


> _http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/25/google-has-not-yet-submitted-a-google-maps-app-to-apple/_


yeah but why not say no we've not submitted on come to andriod you'll get it free from us anyways... or indeed say yes we have the up to apple to approve suggests they have but it's been rejected already... they did so with the you-tube app which was largely shit anyway they'll do so with the map app.... or make the mobile version what the app was....


----------



## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> Apple is getting into maps because knowing the physical location of their users is incredibly valuable. If you know where they are, or more importantly where they have been and when you then know their habits this is pretty damn useful especially when you can also get the masses of metrics that apple gather from their userbase. Apple owns advertising companies and they know that they can make huge amounts of money if they can sell the same level of targeted advertising as google does. Apple did maps because they already have the enormous made user base to make it profitable. They just need to force the users to help them catch up with google.


Quick experiment: name all the successful web advertising giants that you can think of.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Google have said they haven't submitted an app, they could easily do so.


Just as Apple could easily turn it down.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

> Apple Inc.'s approval to offer its maps application for the iPhone, after the software was replaced by an Apple program that's been criticized by reviewers.
> "We haven't done anything yet with Google Maps," Schmidt told reporters in Tokyo today. Apple would "have to approve it. It's their choice," Schmidt said, declining to say if the Mountain View, California-based company submitted an application to Apple for sale through its App Store.
> 
> http://newyork.newsday.com/business...ple-ok-for-iphone-eric-schmidt-says-1.4036327


----------



## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Quick experiment: name all the successful web advertising giants that you can think of.


 
What would that prove? You don't need to know who is advertising at you for the advert to be effective.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> What would that prove? You don't need to know who is advertising at you for the advert to be effective.


No, but you do need to consider: would it be sensible for Apple to attempt to wade very deep into the advertising game? My answer to the two questions would be, 'Google', and 'no'.


----------



## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> No, but you do need to consider: would it be sensible for Apple to attempt to wade very deep into the advertising game? My answer to the two questions would be, 'Google', and 'no'.


 
Why not? Yes google is very big, but so are apple, with a enormous fanatical userbase, there are other players trying to make money through advertising, apple has a massive advantage over any of them. Why wouldn't they?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> Why not? Yes google is very big, but so are apple, with a enormous fanatical userbase, there are other players trying to make money through advertising, apple has a massive advantage over any of them. Why wouldn't they?


They've already tried. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocent...hy-apples-iad-is-failing-to-lure-advertisers/


----------



## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> Why not? Yes google is very big, but so are apple, with a enormous fanatical userbase, there are other players trying to make money through advertising, apple has a massive advantage over any of them. Why wouldn't they?


Advantages over Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo? Because it isn't really working brilliantly for any of those, pre-IPO Facebook excepted to a limited extent.

Almost everything Google has ever done, practically from day one, has been about advertising. Search, Maps, Android and all the rest exist to bring more eyeballs to adverts and more adverts to eyeballs. It's not even all that much about complicated targeting: it's just adverts, adverts, adverts, the more the better.

Apple do not have the same core purpose. They have always existed to sell products, and in recent years, to sell services. They have a particular slice of the demographic and are not even the primary point of web interaction with those people, despite efforts to be. For a lot more people, Google are that primary point.

In some ways, it would be like Google trying to sell retail products directly to consumers. A mess.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> In some ways, it would be like Google trying to sell retail products directly to consumers. A mess.


I agree with all of what you've written apart from the bit above.

But what about the Google Nexus 7?


----------



## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

editor said:


> I agree with all of what you've written apart from the bit above.
> 
> But what about the Google Nexus 7?


I mean proper exclusive retail sales like the Apple Store, although not necessarily with real shops. They did consumer selling with the prior Galaxy products and it was basically a disaster every time. The Nexus 7 is available in any old shop you care to choose from, and really it's an Asus product.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> I mean proper exclusive retail sales like the Apple Store, although not necessarily with real shops. They did consumer selling with the prior Galaxy products and it was basically a disaster every time. The Nexus 7 is available in any old shop you care to choose from, and really it's an Asus product.


But it was also sold by the bucketload directly to consumers via Google Play, and it was hardly a 'mess.'


----------



## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

editor said:


> But it was also sold by the bucketload directly to consumers via Google Play, and it was hardly a 'mess.'


Fair enough. I don't know how that's gone - certainly a riskier proposition than selling apps and videos. I heard negative things at the start about customer service in regard to faults etc, but I've neither bought one nor looked into it very hard, so I may be being unfair.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Fair enough. I don't know how that's gone - certainly a riskier proposition than selling apps and videos. I heard negative things at the start about customer service in regard to faults etc, but I've neither bought one nor looked into it very hard, so I may be being unfair.


By all accounts they've shifted a fair few million of the things via Google Play, and the tablet has just gone on sale in Japan. You can buy the Nexus tablets in other stores, but then the same can be said for Apple.


----------



## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Advantages over Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo? Because it isn't really working brilliantly for any of those, pre-IPO Facebook excepted to a limited extent.
> 
> Almost everything Google has ever done, practically from day one, has been about advertising. Search, Maps, Android and all the rest exist to bring more eyeballs to adverts and more adverts to eyeballs. It's not even all that much about complicated targeting: it's just adverts, adverts, adverts, the more the better.
> 
> ...


 
The advantage over those is that apple own the entire ecosystem, they can gain so much info from so many aspects of their users lives. If you have an iphone you do everything through them. 

Google have always existed to sell adverts, they have got better and better at it, they have launched new products to support themselves in selling adverts, gmail, google+, android all given away for free, none of them directly related to search, their USP. Google have diversified to enable new revenue streams, apple are doing exactly the same. 

I think it is very short sighted to say that just because apple's core purpose is selling iproducts they aren't going to try and make money in other ways, their purpose is to make money, plain and simple they will do this anyway they can.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> The advantage over those is that apple own the entire ecosystem, they can gain so much info from so many aspects of their users lives. If you have an iphone you do everything through them.
> 
> Google have always existed to sell adverts, they have got better and better at it, they have launched new products to support themselves in selling adverts, gmail, google+, android all given away for free, none of them directly related to search, their USP. Google have diversified to enable new revenue streams, apple are doing exactly the same.
> 
> I think it is very short sighted to say that just because apple's core purpose is selling iproducts they aren't going to try and make money in other ways, their purpose is to make money, plain and simple they will do this anyway they can.


true enough but those early adopters are only so because it just works, if that stops being the case or if large sections of the eco-system is far more restrictive then they will not stay.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> The advantage over those is that apple own the entire ecosystem, they can gain so much info from so many aspects of their users lives. If you have an iphone you do everything through them.
> 
> Google have always existed to sell adverts, they have got better and better at it, they have launched new products to support themselves in selling adverts, gmail, google+, android all given away for free, none of them directly related to search, their USP. Google have diversified to enable new revenue streams, apple are doing exactly the same.
> 
> I think it is very short sighted to say that just because apple's core purpose is selling iproducts they aren't going to try and make money in other ways, their purpose is to make money, plain and simple they will do this anyway they can.


You don't do everything through your iPhone or Apple if you own an iPhone/iPad but regularly use a PC, GMail or similar, Google for mobile search, any social network and many other services. It is conceivable that an Android user _does _use Google for almost all of this. This is exactly what I mean about one being the primary point of interaction, and one not.

The only significant way that Google have 'diversified to enable new revenue streams' is the Play Store, which partly exists to make money (which it does badly at) and partly because it is necessary to support the ecosystem, which in turn is necessary to sell adverts. If you see something else and you think it exists to make Google anything like significant revenue in some way that isn't advertising, look again, because you are probably wrong.


----------



## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> You don't do everything through your iPhone or Apple if you own an iPhone/iPad but regularly use a PC, GMail or similar, Google for mobile search, any social network and many other services. It is conceivable that an Android user _does _use Google for almost all of this. This is exactly what I mean about one being the primary point of interaction, and one not.
> 
> The only significant way that Google have 'diversified to enable new revenue streams' is the Play Store, which partly exists to make money (which it does badly at) and partly because it is necessary to support the ecosystem, which in turn is necessary to sell adverts. If you see something else and you think it exists to make Google anything like significant revenue in some way that isn't advertising, look again, because you are probably wrong.


 
You are right that you don't do everything through your iphone, but why does this mean that you wouldn't maximise the usage you are getting?

Are you telling me that you don't think that google reading all your emails (which they do), recording all public g+ posts, knowing where you are and where you search for stuff is not making them significant revenue? In themselves they may not, but each is a piece of the pie that they use to be able to sell more adverts, better targetted. If they know more about you they can use this to convince businesses (their customers) that their adverts will result in a sale. All of googles products feed into this, gmail in itself doesn't make money, but millions of people use it, that's advertising space to be sold, it's also information on what is likely to work. This is what google is good at, I think apple think they can be good at it too. They may be right.


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## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

Economies of scale. Google don't set about creating adverts from nothing, they broker them. They sell advertising opportunities to businesses, who essentially bet money against the chance of the right person seeing the ad at the right time and place. If that time and place is 'any time, anywhere', it's worth putting more money down. If it is 'occasionally on an iPhone', why even bother? Google are going to clobber your target audience anyway, somewhere in their lives.

This is without saying anything about the perils of diversification and trying to break into an area where bigger fish are established and have their competencies nailed.


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## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> Are you telling me that you don't think that google reading all your emails (which they do), recording all public g+ posts, knowing where you are and where you search for stuff is not making them significant revenue? In themselves they may not, but each is a piece of the pie that they use to be able to sell more adverts,


I repeat: 'in some way that isn't advertising'. You just said it: all of those services are for the sole strategic purpose of advertising.


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## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> I repeat: 'in some way that isn't advertising'. You just said it: all of those services are for the sole strategic purpose of advertising.


 
I didn't claim that google don't make money from advertising. They don't simply make money from searching though, they diversified from their original core competency because that would help them make lots of money. Apple are doing exactly the same.


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## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> I didn't claim that google don't make money from advertising. They don't simply make money from searching though, they diversified from their original core competency because that would help them make lots of money. Apple are doing exactly the same.


No. Search, mail, maps and so on - whilst technically different challenges and could be thought of as competencies in their own right, they are the same thing in all being large software systems that enable delivery of advertising. _That_ is their corporate competency.

Apple's core corporate competency is premium consumer hardware - the design, manufacture and retail thereof. It has expanded to include value added services on top - iTunes. That's what they have been good at. No large scale web services, no B2B, and not a single shred of evidence to suggest they are capable of it. They could probably buy it in, but it still wouldn't work like it ought to because they are not fundamentally geared towards anything of the sort. See also: Apple Maps.


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## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

mauvais said:


> No. Search, mail, maps and so on - whilst technically different challenges and could be thought of as competencies in their own right, they are the same thing in all being large software systems that enable delivery of advertising. _That_ is their corporate competency.
> 
> Apple's core corporate competency is premium consumer hardware - the design, manufacture and retail thereof. It has expanded to include value added services on top - iTunes. That's what they have been good at. No large scale web services, no B2B, and not a single shred of evidence to suggest they are capable of it. They could probably buy it in, but it still wouldn't work like it ought to because they are not fundamentally geared towards anything of the sort. See also: Apple Maps.


 

But they are also quite a large ad broker in their own right.

see http://advertising.apple.com/


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## mauvais (Sep 25, 2012)

dervish said:


> But they are also quite a large ad broker in their own right.
> 
> see http://advertising.apple.com/


Yes. And it doesn't work.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/19/google_apple_wallet_advertising/page2.html



Crispy said:


> They've already tried. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocent...hy-apples-iad-is-failing-to-lure-advertisers/


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## dervish (Sep 25, 2012)

So? Doesn't stop them trying does it? 

Same as apple maps, they are not doing very well at the moment, but given time, money and clever people, all of which apple has they could make it a success. Google got slated for releasing their "failed" social network, but they are still plugging away at it, it may well become a part of a bigger successful strategy, facebook are constantly experimenting with how to make more money, some work some don't. Apple are just doing what the others are. 

Every company diversifies, they all see other revenue streams and decide that they can do better than the established players. FFS southern electric are now offering broadband with electricity and gas. Almost every company does this, why do you think that apple is different?


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## stuff_it (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not sure how big a deal 3D maps are yet but this video is pretty stark, Apple's unfinished beta maps are already better detailed and apparently has twice the number of cities than Google's finished product. Map wars anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> Are 3D maps really important to you? Do you actually need your city rendered in incredible detail for your mobile device?



Brilliant, map wars should soon lead to a google maps update that won't fin in my phone. Wicked.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yeah but why not say no we've not submitted on come to andriod you'll get it free from us anyways... or indeed say yes we have the up to apple to approve suggests they have but it's been rejected already... they did so with the you-tube app which was largely shit anyway they'll do so with the map app.... or make the mobile version what the app was....



They're rubbing Apple's nose in it in a way that allows them to save face. If they submitted the app any delay would look bad on Apple. Only an idiot would think that Apple would automatically delay it just to cause Google hassle, Apple have just taken 100 million customers and lucrative sources of data away from Google, what damage could they do by delaying an app (they didn't delay the YouTube one)?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They're rubbing Apple's nose in it in a way that allows them to save face. If they submitted the app any delay would look bad on Apple. Only an idiot would think that Apple would automatically delay it just to cause Google hassle, Apple have just taken 100 million customers and lucrative sources of data away from Google, what damage could they do by delaying an app (they didn't delay the YouTube one)?


oh I think they could do loads if they said we we would approve the new app but it has this tracking software in it and this software which breeches the TOC and we couldn't release it in europe because of this tracking software and their legislation... basically they could in many ways make it look very bad for google whislt 'legitimately' withholding the app...

just means where as most people didn't jail break 4 or 4s everyone will be jailbreaking the 5 google will ge their data apple won't and will totally lose control as people all want to jail break and then find life outside the walled garden... 

Personally it's a dumb move by apple and one I really don't think they'd have taken if Jobs was still there, they'd have waited til it worked as well as google and then made a whole we don't want google slurping your data, trust us with it, we're apple.... etc... 

just has a fire sale type feeling about it's implamentation that's all...


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## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They're rubbing Apple's nose in it in a way that allows them to save face.


So you think it's *Google* that have to save face here?!

Incredible!


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## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Only an idiot would think that Apple would automatically delay it just to cause Google hassle, Apple have just taken 100 million customers and lucrative sources of data away from Google, what damage could they do by delaying an app (they didn't delay the YouTube one)?


Apple managed to delay Google Voice for over a year.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> oh I think they could do loads if they said we we would approve the new app but it has this tracking software in it and this software which breeches the TOC and we couldn't release it in europe because of this tracking software and their legislation... basically they could in many ways make it look very bad for google whislt 'legitimately' withholding the app...
> 
> just means where as most people didn't jail break 4 or 4s everyone will be jailbreaking the 5 google will ge their data apple won't and will totally lose control as people all want to jail break and then find life outside the walled garden...
> 
> ...



Agree this wouldn't have happened under Jobs, this comes across like an ends justifies the means decision. That's pure operational thinking...Tim Cook style.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

editor said:


> So you think it's *Google* that have to save face here?!
> 
> Incredible!


yeah I hate to agree with him twice on one thread dude but really... this is a snafu of apples own making and one which they are totally screwed by in terms of what to do as well.

Allow Googlemaps app back into IOS6 and that's it for there apple map software entirely dead in the water, once bitten twice shy see microsoft mobile for example... 

if they don't do something and stick with it then people are likely to JB the handset and opt out of their ecosystem or not bother at all with the walled garden and get a driod... their only hope is google make and app and release it and from what schmidts comments could be read as we would produce and app but what's the point apple have already said they won't allow it... as it's up to apple what they want to do or we had a perfectly good working app but apple removed it if they don't want it then why should we make another one... might be the other way of looking at it... it's not a google save face issue really it's an apple need to work on this app and spend a shedload (buy garmin or summit) to do it... my big guess would be that they will buy a mapping company before the end of the year... however if they don't fix it soon then people will after the initial ooo look new gadget appeal has worn off not get one and wait for the 5s... 

or 6 or go droid...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Agree this wouldn't have happened under Jobs, this comes across like an ends justifies the means decision. That's pure operational thinking...Tim Cook style.


which means that Ives isn't in control of the products anymore or the Q/A which again means apple on the wane... not in ascendancy... if the shareholders of apple want to ensure they get max profits out then they need to make sure ives has control of the product releases as he did under jobs or that maybe the next big scalp google get... and if that happened... well let's say the writing really would be on the wall...


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## paolo (Sep 25, 2012)

I'd been sceptical about the switch for some time, just knowing that street view was going. So I held off upgrading and now I'm glad I did.

GIS data takes a looong time / lots of money / lots of licensing deals to accumulate to the level where one has competetive quality and depth in most target markets.

I'd be surprised if Apple can turn this around quickly. Or possibly at all, given that Google will be moving forward at the same time.

Personally I think the right (if bold) thing to do would be eat humble pie and go back to Google maps ASAP; or possibly make it user switchable (slightly less embarrassing).

If they don't, the longer this goes on, the more sustained is the brand damage.


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## pinkychukkles (Sep 25, 2012)

I use Google maps on quite a lot - have no plans to upgrade to iOS6 until this is sorted. Pretty poor really - replace an excellent app with a poorer one _and then request that all the users help provide feedback to make it better!_


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

Apparently Google maps aren't too great in China...and surprisingly Apple's are:



> _Now, I’m not disputing that Maps does give a lot of strange results to a lot of people all around the world, but for a large, large number of people, iOS 6 Maps has been a huge improvement over Google Maps. I’m talking about those of us who live in China (you know, the place with 1.3+ billion people and the second-largest economy in the world). Google Maps was always pretty terrible here. In the big cities and tourist centers, it was passable. Once you left China’s large metropolises, however, you were pretty much on your own. You could usually see expressways, highways, and even a lot of smaller roads, but there were very, very few shops, restaurants, banks, ATMs, etc. listed. That has changed with iOS 6._


 
Side by side:










Source.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

that wouldn't have anything to do with apples capitulation to hand over data to Chinese govt and googles refusal to you reckon


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> that wouldn't have anything to do with apples capitulation to hand over data to Chinese govt and googles refusal to you reckon


 
What's interesting is Apple has chosen to ensure a good service in China, over the rest of the world...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

Starting to think the app icon is more than a little ironic:


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)




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## pinkmonkey (Sep 25, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> There's a major update scheduled for October - but given the situation with Maps, who knows what we're going to be getting.


I have upgraded itunes today, it still took me three goes   to get some pdf magazines onto it but that is still an improvement on the last version of itunes where it would take me an average of a dozen times connecting to get it to recognise my ipad.  I am wearing my usb ports out.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 25, 2012)

My brother just posted a screengrab on Facebook - Apple Maps thinks that Granada Services (on a junction on the A1) is now in my mothers garden. That's at least two miles off target. I hope she's got enough teabags.


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## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Here's something those 'bored' engineers at Google have just managed to get patented - a nifty camera app that combines geolocation, Street View and image data. it sounds like the sort of cutting-edge maps-based data convergence that Apple, presumably, are currently lagging miles behind on.


> *Google patent delivers close-up photos when your phone can't, Blade Runners would approve*
> If the zoom isn't up to snuff, the proposed software could gauge a mobile device's position and orientation to offer a closer, already-taken photo from a server as a substitute, whether it's a Street View shot or a more traditional image. The geocoded system could even cue photos based on the time of day and year to provide that extra dash of authenticity. We already get a trace of the concept through photo overlays within Street View itself, although there's no indication as to whether or not Google will link our camera apps directly to a cloud of substitute photos
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/25/google-patent-delivers-close-up-photos-when-your-phone-cant/


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> My brother just posted a screengrab on Facebook - Apple Maps thinks that Granada Services (on a junction on the A1) is now in my mothers garden. That's at least two miles off target. I hope she's got enough teabags.


 
LOL! Yeah I was in west London recently and it had a station across the road, I guess small mistakes have less real world impact though than whoppers like this one!


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## magneze (Sep 26, 2012)

Here's an interesting article about online advertising. It surprised me - I thought that Google was No1, but in fact it's only just taken that crown.


> Google will overtake Facebook in the lucrative digital display advertising market in the US by holding 15.4 per cent of the sector, according to new figures.
> Beancounters at eMarketer said the Chocolate Factory is expected to make $2.31bn in US display ad revenue this year, up 38.5 per cent from its earnings in 2011. Meanwhile Facebook will trouser $2.16bn, up 24.4 per cent from last year. Display advertising, as opposed to classified ads, is typically banners and similar promos adorning websites.
> Google's rise to the top is helped by video advertising on its YouTube subsidary, and its mobile display ads through Admob, an area that Facebook has yet to effectively monetise.
> Yahoo!, the leader of the pack before Facebook tipped it out of the top spot last year, will lose even more market share, dropping to just 9.3 per cent of the market, compared to Zuck's 14.4 per cent.
> The spread between the top three is forecast to continue for the next two years as well: Google is set to extend its lead into 21.2 per cent of the market in 2014, while Facebook shifts to 15.5 per cent and Yahoo! languishes with seven per cent. The research firm reckons the overall US digital display ad market will grow 21.5 per cent this year to $14.98bn - leaving Microsoft and AOL mopping up the scraps.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/20/google_overtakes_facebook_display_ads/


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## newbie (Sep 26, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently Google maps aren't too great in China...and surprisingly Apple's are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well I know which of those two I'd choose! 

One of the issues with mobile Googlemaps is that it's been created by twenty-somethings for twenty-somethings and never roadtested by middleaged people with failing eyesight who have to reach for glasses every time they glance at the map.  Even then the text is too small and as it resizes on zooming in it's always verging on unreadable.  There is a Google Labs bolt-on to make the text bigger (I'm not the only one to find this irritating) but it's still far from clear.

Now that this thread has stopped posting and laughing at aerial photos (which I never use) and started to consider actual mapping it's clear there is a distinct improvement in usability.


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## Maltin (Sep 26, 2012)

newbie said:


> Now that this thread has stopped posting and laughing at aerial photos (which I never use) and started to consider actual mapping it's clear there is a distinct improvement in usability.


surely you mean clarity (for you)? Usability of a map to me, means being sufficiently accurate to be usable, which the Apple maps have shown that they have issues with. 

I'm nowhere near a twenty something but don't have an issue reading the maps and I dont remember my seventy year old parents having problems reading them either and they both have eyesight issues (although I imagine I have more recently showed them maps on an iPad rather than the phone). Yes, the Apple map is a bit clearer but this has generally been by sacrificed by losing more detail, which I would prefer to have.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2012)

I do like how when you move the map round the place names stay the right way up. Used to annoy the hell out of me in Gmaps that...


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## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

newbie said:


> There is a Google Labs bolt-on to make the text bigger (I'm not the only one to find this irritating) but it's still far from clear.


Menu -> Labs -> tick 'make text bigger' box. Not that hard really.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's interesting is Apple has chosen to ensure a good service in China, over the rest of the world...


a country that up until recently they couldn't sell the jesus mobe in ....


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## Favelado (Sep 26, 2012)

editor said:


> I quite like the mind bending art effects on these:


 
They weren't far off here.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> a country that up until recently they couldn't sell the jesus mobe in ....



Indeed.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

yes well done we can all agree that stitching together millions of satellite images is at the best of times even with perfect data a difficult task which might mean due to such automation might mean that some images look shonkey as ras, particularly in a clearly unfinished and unpolished app like apple maps is...

can we please stop posting about this  FFS and maybe get back to discussion on the maps etc... you know.. rather than this become a shit apple centric version of the bandwidth...


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## IC3D (Sep 26, 2012)

Just looked at my nearest desirable high street, the pubs in the wrong place, a petrol station has appeared behind a bus stop and I can go to numerous restaurants and bars that packed up years ago. I was warned not to update so soon as well


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## mrs quoad (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> can we please stop posting about this  FFS and maybe get back to discussion on the maps etc... you know.. rather than this become a shit apple centric version of the bandwidth...


The quoted post is from Thursday. Fwiw.


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## Favelado (Sep 26, 2012)

Was he moaning at me?


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## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Was he moaning at me?


Well I haven't posted any comedy iOS screengrabs this week.


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## Favelado (Sep 26, 2012)

editor said:


> Well I haven't posted any comedy iOS screengrabs this week.


 
I wasn't trying to be funny. I thought it was a genuine coincidence that the Tacomma Narrows Bridge was wonky in Apple maps.

Garf's posts read like Spud's interview in Trainspotting anyway so balls to him.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes well done we can all agree that stitching together millions of satellite images is at the best of times even with perfect data a difficult task which might mean due to such automation might mean that some images look shonkey as ras, particularly in a clearly unfinished and unpolished app like apple maps is...
> 
> can we please stop posting about this  FFS and maybe get back to discussion on the maps etc... you know.. rather than this become a shit apple centric version of the bandwidth...



Wait, you're expecting balanced discussion bout Apple and Google on Urban75?!


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

editor said:


> Well I haven't posted any comedy iOS screengrabs this week.


well done for showing restraint... but tbf it's only Wednesday...


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## Favelado (Sep 26, 2012)

He's no Craig David.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Favelado said:


> He's no Craig David.


I dunno there's part of be that wishes there was a bo selectah version of the editor... it'd be amazing...


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## maldwyn (Sep 26, 2012)

FWIW I liked seeing those screen grabs - no matter who the culprit - it was an entertaining fuck-up, unless you actually needed to be somewhere.


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## dervish (Sep 26, 2012)

I was quite enjoying them too.


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## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

I think most people enjoyed them too because they were genuinely funny, but I got shouted down by a rather unpleasant small minority here so gave up.


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## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

Comes to something when Gizmodo start slagging off Apple's latest and greatest:


> The New Apple: It Doesn’t Just Work
> 
> Apple's best-known mantra might be "Think Different," but anyone who's watched the company through the years will tell you its real clarion call: _It Just Works_. That's how nearly every Apple product has been described on stage since Steve Jobs returned from NeXT. It may not be Apple's tagline, but it's certainly its biggest selling point.
> 
> ...


 
http://gizmodo.com/5946425/the-new-apple-it-doesnt-just-work


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## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

Well, this is interesting considering that some were suggesting that Google had somehow 'forced the hand' of Apple.
It also explains why Google haven't got an app ready to go. nor are likely to have one for a while.


> Apple had over a year left on Google Maps contract, Google scrambling to build iOS app
> Apple's decision to ship its own mapping system in the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 was made over a year before the company's agreement to use Google Maps expired, according to two independent sources familiar with the matter. The decision, made sometime before Apple's WWDC event in June, sent Google scrambling to develop an iOS Google Maps app — an app which both sources say is still incomplete and currently not scheduled to ship for several months.
> http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/25/3...t-on-google-maps-contract-google-maps-ios-app


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

editor said:


> I think most people enjoyed them too because they were genuinely funny, but I got shouted down by a rather unpleasant small minority here so gave up.


the get ta feckin gtumblr... ffs... jaysus...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

editor said:


> Well, this is interesting considering that some were suggesting that Google had somehow 'forced the hand' of Apple.
> It also explains why Google haven't got an app ready to go. nor are likely to have one for a while.


but it's kinda bollocks isn't it... I mean they might not have a native app ready but there was a google maps app natively within the ios frame work as an embedded app... IE they had developed and made an ios map app which worked as it was there... we all used it... so why they couldn't finish a verison of the same app which previously worked and now magically doesn't work... isn't really being honest (either apple or google) with the punters... they did finish the app cos it was there... 

There's no specific difference after all between a native apps accesses to the phones systems and a downloaded app excpet the function turned off to delete them from the handsite and the preinstalled nature of the app... that's it everything else remains the same. 

which is why google could just release the code the curently have for the app and this would then work on IOS 6 which is why people are finding they can jial break and make it work, the reliablity issues are to do with the fact it needs to use some pretty shonky downgrade paths to make it work as it did in ios 5 only because it's a native app which has then been hacked... if it were on the standalone app architeture then the reliablity issues would go away... 

My guess is the port will take another 2 weeks but if google are wise is OS the current code base of the app and get people to dev it for free, then they can slap advertising within it and not pay the apple tax... tadah... google maps back with user enchancements and I'll bet that an O/S version of google maps could be made to work in IOS 6 stabley in a jail broken phone before apple can fix their mapping issues....

I'd bet my next iphone on it...


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

The next version of maps that Google releases for iOS6 has to be wonderfully polished and sporting all the latest features, not a botched-up, rushed out, unreliable release. And then, of course, there's the thorny issue of whether Apple will allow the app into their walled garden anyway, and if they do, how long it will take to be approved.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

editor said:


> The next version of maps that Google releases for iOS6 has to be wonderfully polished and sporting all the latest features, not a botched-up, rushed out, unreliable release. And then, of course, there's the thorny issue of whether Apple will allow the app into their walled garden anyway, and if they do, how long it will take to be approved.


oh sure... 

I can't see apple not caving on this.

I can see google saying nah what's the point we'll dev for droid we're not gonna get shafted again... 

I can see people J/B their phones to downgrade to gmaps ios5 (and already have buggy unreliable crashy gmaps is better than no idea where the hell you are crapplemaps).

within the homebrew community there's even some talk in the news groups of iphone 5 ios 5 and downgrading the entire phone which should at least be technically possible...


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 26, 2012)

editor said:


> Comes to something when Gizmodo start slagging off Apple's latest and greatest:
> 
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5946425/the-new-apple-it-doesnt-just-work


Gizmodo are always having a pop, I'd even go as far as saying they loath Apple


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## Crispy (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> but it's kinda bollocks isn't it... I mean they might not have a native app ready but there was a google maps app natively within the ios frame work as an embedded app... IE they had developed and made an ios map app which worked as it was there... we all used it... so why they couldn't finish a verison of the same app which previously worked and now magically doesn't work... isn't really being honest (either apple or google) with the punters... they did finish the app cos it was there...


 
The legacy iOS maps app was not written by Google, it was written by Apple.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The legacy iOS maps app was not written by Google, it was written by Apple.


using the google api tho... so it can't be that hard to shell the same damn api and allow touch functionality ffs you can buy for around $100 a ready made shell app which you bung your own shitty webservices and you're telling me google couldn't do it... or that apple couldn't O/s their code.... really ... really....


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 26, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Gizmodo are always having a pop, I'd even go as far as saying they loath Apple


somehting to do with being blacklisted for buy a stolen phone perchance...


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## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

Looks like using Google Maps in an iOS6 browser window isn't so great either, "...Because if you’re expecting anything like the Google Maps iPhone app we knew and loved in iOS 5 and previous releases, you’re going to be disappointed..."

Sorry iPhone Users, Google Maps ‘App’ on iOS 6 Isn’t Great Either


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## newbie (Sep 26, 2012)

Maltin said:


> surely you mean clarity (for you)? .


 
aye, that's a better word.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> somehting to do with being blacklisted for buy a stolen phone perchance...



Yup they hate Apple, citing them in relation to Apple is like citing the Daily Mail on immigration.


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## editor (Sep 26, 2012)

Yes. I can just feel their uncontrollable hate and sheer loathing for Apple from here. Just look at all this hate!

MacBook Air 2012 Review: Still the Best Laptop for Regular People.
The New MBP Retina Display Blows the Doors off Its Competition
Apple’s Next Gen MacBook Pro Is the Most Amazing Laptop We’ve Ever Seen


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## elbows (Sep 27, 2012)

editor said:


> Comes to something when Gizmodo start slagging off Apple's latest and greatest:


 
Not really, I find the idea that its a special sign of the times that Gizmodo would slag off an Apple product or feature to be almost as silly as the other idea floating around here at the moment that Gizmodo are always rude about Apple because of the prototype iPhone fallout.

For a start its a good idea to look at the specific author to see what they style is like, rather than just looking at the site/publication as a whole. In this case rather amusingly he wrote an article previously that was gushing on about how googles youtube & maps getting divorced from apple would be great for everyone. But in some other non-Apple related stories I bothered to look at, he does display the ability to be tough on companies that make mistakes.

As for Gizmodo and indeed the press in general, I refute the idea that journalists or people at large have turned a blind eye to Apples failings in the past, so the criticism of their crap maps does not surprise me at all. It is a complete misrepresentation of of the Steve Jobs reality distortion field to suggest that it ever really shielded Apple from criticism or made the masses blind to the downsides of Apple. The legendary reality distortion field was the one Jobs set to work on specific people within his field of influence that he needed something from. But even then there its often overhyped, and may be a jokey reference to Jobs own delusions, with people humouring him or being cowed by him rather than really buying the dream. Although he was able to apply the same thing to Apples corporate bollocks and marketing to an extent, it did not have the same power really, the actual product design and set of compromises were where most of the magic was to be found.

And so I do not believe that Apple have previously gotten away with shoddy products or services on the occasions where thats what they delivered. They get away with products that are expensive and deliberately limited in some ways, including ways that really piss a load of people off. But they do not get away with features that are supposed to do one thing and fail to deliver. MobileMe was derided. Ping was laughed at. They didnt avoid the heat when the iPhone 4 antenna issues emerged. There was plenty of attention on the lack of flash when the iphone was first announced. The extensive changes they made to Final Cut went down badly. They never had a good reputation for software on Windows, and thats not changed substantially despite their other successes. Siri, whilst initially well-received when announced, was picked on quite extensively by the media once its flaws became clear. Indeed despite finding plenty of gushing excited Apple rumour & review stories on Gizmodo, a good prior example of an article that is very harsh is one about Siri from the end of last year: http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2011/12/siri-is-apples-broken-promise

Im not trying to claim that they are not making more, and larger mistakes these days. And recently I have suggested that some sections of the press are bored of the Apple success story and are looking for the fail story, and this plays into the 'look for Apple losing their way now that Jobs is dead' story which people started writing long before Jobs was even dead, such was the obviousness of that storyline. Im just saying that criticism of Apple from pretty much every quarter when they make a big mistake is not a new phenomenon at all.


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## Barking_Mad (Sep 27, 2012)

A guy with Apple maps walks into a bar, or it might have been a hotel. Or maybe even a church.


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## sim667 (Sep 27, 2012)

Actually used the 3d map bit for the first time today....... it is stunning, but its also not the first time I tried to use it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2012)

newbie said:


> well I know which of those two I'd choose!
> 
> One of the issues with mobile Googlemaps is that it's been created by twenty-somethings for twenty-somethings and never roadtested by middleaged people with failing eyesight who have to reach for glasses every time they glance at the map.  Even then the text is too small and as it resizes on zooming in it's always verging on unreadable.  There is a Google Labs bolt-on to make the text bigger (I'm not the only one to find this irritating) but it's still far from clear.
> 
> Now that this thread has stopped posting and laughing at aerial photos (which I never use) and started to consider actual mapping it's clear there is a distinct improvement in usability.



Indeed. Something I've been thinking about is Apple can easily prioritise development of map accuracy based on the simple idea that you mainly need it to work for people in places they usually go day to day. Apple have been tracking iPhone users location movements for a long time now so could easily model that, over lay on the map and work out the hotspots for dev. Once those are rolled out generally people's experience would get better even if it doesn't show some village in India in absolute details...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Actually *used the 3d map bit for the first time today*....... it is stunning, but *its also not the first time I tried to use it.*


er hello... not only are you confused due to mappage trama but within the rest of your verbage too...


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## Crispy (Sep 27, 2012)

used != tried


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 27, 2012)

Crispy said:


> used != tried


well yes but
== use


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## sim667 (Sep 27, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> er hello...


Oh if we're breaking into that lingo then speak to the hand cus the face ain't listening.

Sagrada familia looks pretty cool


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2012)

That does!


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## Supine (Sep 27, 2012)

All this chat about how crap apple maps are...

Google start releasing streatview for underwater locations


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2012)

Yeah but I bet it's got all the tube stations wrong.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2012)

Lol so it turns out Google faked a map address to take the piss out of Apple? Classy.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2012)

Isn't that just because it's not a smart thing to put real addresses in adverts?


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## dervish (Sep 28, 2012)

editor said:


> Isn't that just because it's not a smart thing to put real addresses in adverts?


 
Doesn't look that way. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-5...pple-maps-ad-reveals-google-maps-own-failing/


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

editor said:


> Isn't that just because it's not a smart thing to put real addresses in adverts?


no Editor  Schmidt that excuse vill nacht wash....


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

dervish said:


> Doesn't look that way. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-5...pple-maps-ad-reveals-google-maps-own-failing/



Red herring alert, true or not it doesn't matter you look bloody daft slagging off someone for getting maps wrong using a fake address!


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Red herring alert, true or not it doesn't matter you look bloody daft slagging off someone for getting maps wrong using a fake address!


not the first time the ad department has ruined the impression the tech team we're trying to make look at the last frame of the final launch advert for the old front page software... MS discountued shortly afterwards.... lol


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## elbows (Sep 28, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> MS discountued shortly afterwards.... lol


 
/p = prices slashed


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

elbows said:


> /p = prices slashed


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## Kanda (Sep 28, 2012)

Tim Cook apologises: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/28/ti...pple-maps-points-to-competitive-alternatives/


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

Wow this would've never happened under Jobs, Apple says sorry for maps:



> To our customers,
> 
> At Apple, we strive to make world-class products that deliver the best experience possible to our customers. With the launch of our new Maps last week, we fell short on this commitment. We are extremely sorry for the frustration this has caused our customers and we are doing everything we can to make Maps better.
> 
> ...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 28, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Tim Cook apologises: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/28/ti...pple-maps-points-to-competitive-alternatives/


but falls short of actually saying and now we'll withdraw the maps option as it stands and reimplement a goggle maps app....

if they've rebuilt it from the ground up Cookie then give the old app that you can be still works to google with instructions on how to update it for IOS 6... 

huh  that'd be the way forward....


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

Thinking about this a bit more it could be a clever move (the apology); it means a bit harder for competitors to run attack ads or Google to try their passive aggressive tactic when criticising Apple for dumping their maps. The fact that Cook cites by name other maps or ways of accessing them is telling.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2012)

Oh yes. Replacing an excellent map with a comedy alternative surely is a work of _genius._


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## maldwyn (Sep 28, 2012)

I don't believe they they had much of an alternative, google wanted to keep voice turn-by-turn exclusively for Android, what other option did Apple have but to develop something on their own. They will make it work.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I don't believe they they had much of an alternative, google wanted to keep voice turn-by-turn exclusively for Android, what other option did Apple have but to develop something on their own. They will make it work.



Certainly lights a fire under their asses, means they have to compete again rather than just iterating to rake in cash.


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## pocketscience (Sep 28, 2012)

Tim Cook apologizes for Apple Maps & recommends google 

http://techland.time.com/2012/09/28...r-apple-maps-recommends-alternatives-for-now/


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## pocketscience (Sep 28, 2012)

dubble post


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## elbows (Sep 28, 2012)

Pfffft.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/28...p-store-feature-section-for-alternative-maps/



> Apple has also added a new featured section to the App Store highlighting some of those map alternatives.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

Heh clever pr move. Now the conversation won't Apple maps versus Google maps it'll be what's the many alternatives to Apple.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2012)

That's a "clever" move?

Enjoy 'Waze Social GPS' instead of Google Maps. I bet it's awesome.


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## elbows (Sep 28, 2012)

Its not a clever move, its all they could come up with.

They wanted to do something fairly quickly, but fixing the various flaws in their maps product will be a big long task. And the other real solution, going back to Google, is not an option they want to take. So they came up with this, which isnt all that surprising I suppose, especially as when I first tried Apple Maps and asked for directions using transport other than a car, it already tried to flog me some 3rd party solutions.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2012)

It's creating a crowded map market on iOS, I'd bet most didn't even know Bing was also a map app. Google still doesn't have an app and by the time it does Apple will likely have generated plenty of downloads for other apps. Clever pr doesn't have to solve the problem, it just has to get people talking about it differently.

Btw is anyone stupid enough to think Apple didn't know their app wasn't up to the job of competing with a ten year old product?


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## editor (Sep 29, 2012)

Here's how users are finding their new Apple maps:


> *Just 4% of iOS 6 users still using Apple Maps after 5 days*
> 
> Before the upgrade to iOS 6, 25 percent were viewing Google Maps at least once a day
> Once they moved to iOS 6, the number of users using Apple Maps was 35 percent
> However, over the next 5 days that drops down to *4 percent*







This user comment seems rather apt. 


> Every time I read about this I think back to all the iFools proclaiming Google Maps dead after the Apple maps demo. 3D maps was going to end it all never mind Apple not even having a web offering. None of them thought about the work that was put into Google Maps. Now all of a sudden its "Google had a decade". Not so easy huh....


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## Maltin (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Btw is anyone stupid enough to think Apple didn't know their app wasn't up to the job of competing with a ten year old product?


Judging by the earlier quote you provided where Tim Cook apologises for Apple falling "short of this commitment" it sounds like he and others at Apple didn't. That phrase suggests  to me that they made a mistake and shouldn't have released ios6/iPhone5 with the Apple map app.  I'm sure there was no one stupid enough at Apple who thought their product was as good as Google's but they obviously thought it was good enough to compete, hence the change and now they've acknowledged that it falls short.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

Maltin said:


> Judging by the earlier quote you provided where Tim Cook apologises for Apple falling "short of this commitment" it sounds like he and others at Apple didn't. That phrase suggests  to me that they made a mistake and shouldn't have released ios6/iPhone5 with the Apple map app.  I'm sure there was no one stupid enough at Apple who thought their product was as good as Google's but they obviously thought it was good enough to compete, hence the change and now they've acknowledged that it falls short.



See comment pr, it's impossible he wouldn't have known. The apology is just pr to move the story on.


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## Maltin (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> See comment pr, it's impossible he wouldn't have known. The apology is just pr to move the story on.


So do you think it was part of their plan to release a shoddy app and either expect people to not notice/worry or anticipate that they would get lots of flak and then issue an embarrassing apology suggesting people use competitors' products instead so that the issue might go away?


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## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's how users are finding their new Apple maps:


That data, IMO, needs context.

Insofar as it's suggesting that 5 out of 6 people who previously had a need for a map application are no longer using it; or are no longer using the device's maps application.

That's a tremendously high proportion. And suggests a staggering degree of brokenness _and _a customer base who're aware of - and using - alternatives. Unless their need for maps has suddenly disappeared.

Are 5 out of 6 people with an iDevice really aware of, and inclined to use, a browser to access maps.google.com? And / or a similar alternative? I get the impression that a fair proportion of people with iDevices really aren't that savvy, and - tbh - get the devices in part because they involve so little fucking around. You don't need to understand them in order to use them, so to speak.

I find that data curious - but really difficult to understand without some context and / or suggestions as to what's behind the trend their data is suggesting. At first sight, the data is so exceptional, and implies so much about Apple's user base, that I find it hard to take entirely seriously - without further context, explanation or support.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

elbows said:


> Pfffft.
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/28...p-store-feature-section-for-alternative-maps/


Christ. What this doesn't show is that - of the offerings I'm seeing on iTunes / iPhone app store - two are free, one is £1.49, one is £24.99, one is £39.99, and the final one is £59.99.

Good grief.


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## elbows (Sep 29, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Christ. What this doesn't show is that - of the offerings I'm seeing on iTunes / iPhone app store - two are free, one is £1.49, one is £24.99, one is £39.99, and the final one is £59.99.
> 
> Good grief.


 
Its even worse on the ipad. Im offered one free one (The Waze social one editor was understandably laughing at), ForeverMap for £1.49 and NAVIGON Europe for £59.99, thats it.


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## editor (Sep 29, 2012)

I don't know what it's like on iOS, but ForeverMap is rubbish on Android.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

Maltin said:


> So do you think it was part of their plan to release a shoddy app and either expect people to not notice/worry or anticipate that they would get lots of flak and then issue an embarrassing apology suggesting people use competitors' products instead so that the issue might go away?



More the latter than former, they knew how crap their maps are, they knew they couldn't compete with a ten year old product (which actually wasn't amazing on day one which people appear to have forgotten). So they'd worked up a pr plan (multiple strands) as a contingency.


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## editor (Sep 29, 2012)

How is the issue of how Google Maps looked ten years ago in any way relevant?


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## pocketscience (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> More the latter than former, they knew how crap their maps are, they knew they couldn't compete with a ten year old product (which actually wasn't amazing on day one which people appear to have forgotten). So they'd worked up a pr plan (multiple strands) as a contingency.


Easy to say in hindsight but when Google Earth and then Maps were released, I like most of the people I know, thought it was breathtaking. A real milestone of the internet age. But, as editor says, Google's issues back then are irrelevant to Apple's Maps issues today. If anything, this fiasco and Cook's statement on top, shows a degree of desperation at Apple to contain this PR_ disaster_. Which ever way you look at it,  it isn't is _good_ PR, ... unless you're hopelessly trapped in the Apple RDF.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> More the latter than former, they knew how crap their maps are, they knew they couldn't compete with a ten year old product (which actually wasn't amazing on day one which people appear to have forgotten). So they'd worked up a pr plan (multiple strands) as a contingency.


For an amazingly worked out plan complete with a wealth of contingencies, they've done an incredibly good job of making it look like a badly handled grade-A international media sensation of a fuck-up.

Unless that was the impression they were trying to give, of course.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> Easy to say in hindsight but when Google Earth and then Maps were released, I like most of the people I know, thought it was breathtaking. A real milestone of the internet age. But, as editor says, Google's issues back then are irrelevant to Apple's Maps issues today. If anything, this fiasco and Cook's statement on top, shows a degree of desperation at Apple to contain this PR_ disaster_. What it isn't is _good_ PR, which ever way you look at it... unless you're hopelessly trapped in the Apple RDF.



I don't anyone that was blown away it was more yeah ok another map to use. Even recently it was getting basic things wrong in London with tube stations not being shown. It's entirely relevant, comparing Apple maps today with Google's ten year old map is the point.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't anyone that was blown away it was more yeah ok another map to use.


You don't remember people's raw amazement that someone had compiled satellite images of the entire motherfucking world, and turned them into Google Earth / a maps programme that could overlay those images?

If not, then you were around very different people to the yokels I was spending my time with.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> If not, then you were around very different people to the yokels I was spending my time with.



Evidently.


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## pocketscience (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't anyone that was blown away* it was more yeah ok another map to use*. Even recently it was getting basic things wrong in London with tube stations not being shown. It's entirely relevant, comparing Apple maps today with Google's ten year old map is the point.


Was you working for the CIA at the time???? Which other maps (freely available to non gov agents) were on a par at the time?... TomTom???


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## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> Was you working for the CIA at the time???? Which other maps (freely available to non gov agents) were on a par at the time?... TomTom???


AA's online Routefinder, perhaps.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

Anyone else read today that it took just two Google engineers only three weeks to make the iPhone maps app for release in 2007? Three weeks? Two engineers!


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## newbie (Sep 29, 2012)

Multimap

but that was for desktop web based mapping, mobile mapping was PDA &  Memory Map (or the equivalent) with external GPS units.


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## elbows (Sep 29, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> You don't remember people's raw amazement that someone had compiled satellite images of the entire motherfucking world, and turned them into Google Earth / a maps programme that could overlay those images?
> 
> If not, then you were around very different people to the yokels I was spending my time with.


 
I remember it. There was certainly a novelty to seeing places we are familiar with but from overhead, and it was the sort of thing I used to dream of having free access to a decade ago.

It was impressive. It took years to filter down to instant online use though. I think I was probably first dazzled by things like Nasa's World Wind and the products of Keyhole, a good while before the latter became Google Earth and their stuff was improved upon, such as better resolution images, and also used in Google Maps.

I certainly remember it impresssing everyone at work when it arrived in their browser window, and before then Google Earth was one of the few apps I'd see some users bothering to install on their work machines. Im sure a good many hours were wasted nostalging over various locations as a result.

I also remember what a pain in the bum it used to be having to put some clonky location map on your business website. The Google Maps API was like a small miracle when it arrived.


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## elbows (Sep 29, 2012)

I remember being vaguely alarmed around late 1995 that some small ambulance HQ up north whose computers I had randomly been asked to offer one-time advice about, were still using a DOS version of AutoRoute. We've come a long way!


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## paolo (Sep 30, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone else read today that it took just two Google engineers only three weeks to make the iPhone maps app for release in 2007? Three weeks? Two engineers!



Not that incredible really - if you've got the base data, it's a fairly simple vector drawing & labelling job.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2012)

paolo said:


> Not that incredible really - if you've got the base data, it's a fairly simple vector drawing & labelling job.



I thought it was more work than that tbh.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2012)

This interesting post touches on some of the complex processes required to make a decent maps app:



> *1. Aggregating location data is hard. *
> For complete coverage, Apple would need to bring in two or three horizontal (core) databases for each country. For example, in the United States, a few commercial providers like Localeze, InfoGroup, Axciom, and Compass provide core data on approximately 15 million businesses. Each provider has various strengths, which is why large publishers like Apple would prefer data from more than one provider. Apple would probably want to license third-party sources in addition to collecting and curating its own data through its devices.
> 
> *2. Aggregating vertical business data is even harder. *
> ...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 30, 2012)

And the reason your reporting an article linked to by KE last week that's been rehashed and subedited would be?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2012)

Yup the original blog post is one of the best things I've read on this, far more interesting than tedious endless posts of map failures...


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## editor (Sep 30, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> And the reason your reporting an article linked to by KE last week that's been rehashed and subedited would be?


Because it's just been posted, it's relevant to this thread, one or two of the user comments are interesting and I didn't see the previous one. HTH.


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## teqniq (Oct 1, 2012)




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## elbows (Oct 1, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> far more interesting than tedious endless posts of map failures...


 
Oh yeah right, because normally we are treated to endless new and refreshing geek humour that has us fascinated or in stitches. I'm oh so sure people would rather read one of my long dull history lessons/analysis posts than see a silly picture.

The opportunity to take the piss out of a large IT failure with ease due to an abundance of visual evidence showing the fail in its true glory does not come around that often. Given the historic nature of the corporate feature failure on this occasion, my only regret is that the phenomenon peaked rather abruptly and then fell away, a rich seam of failure exploited so rapidly.

This ones up there, joining friends such as the probably long since deleted Microsoft knowledgebase article '"When you run Explorapedia and use the Exploratron to look at the Earth spinning, the Earth rotates in the wrong direction."


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 1, 2012)

editor said:


> Because it's just been posted, it's relevant to this thread, one or two of the user comments are interesting and I didn't see the previous one. HTH.


because once again you're not reading the thread... thanks for confirming...


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## editor (Oct 3, 2012)

Good news for iOS6 users - you're getting Street View back!



> In the midst of Apple's iOS 6 map debacle, Google is looking to strengthen its grip on mobile maps.
> 
> According to AllThingsD, the Web giant is planning to announce the debut of Street View images to its mobile Google Maps Web app this week. The news comes from AllThingsD's Walt Mossberg's review on Google Maps for Android.
> 
> ...


http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57524918-93/google-maps-to-insert-street-view-into-mobile-web-app/


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 3, 2012)

genius plan ... 

make the apple store workers fix the maps for you...

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/03...ore-employees-to-help-improve-maps-for-ios-6/


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## maldwyn (Oct 3, 2012)




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## pesh (Oct 3, 2012)




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## editor (Oct 3, 2012)

pesh said:


>



That is absolutely superb.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> genius plan ...
> 
> make the apple store workers fix the maps for you...
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/03...ore-employees-to-help-improve-maps-for-ios-6/



Well er that's one way to approach a solution...


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2012)

Is the solution to Apple's map problem to buy Nokia?



> The Atlantic’s Alexis Madrigal has published some fascinating articles about modern day mapping lately.* Last month he argued that no one can compete with Google’s Maps because they have the most data after driving 5 million miles in Street View cars. But did you know that UPS drives 3.3 billion miles a year and they track all of their trucks GPS data?*
> 
> If a company were to gain access to UPS’s GPS driving data they would make Google Maps’ data look as bad as, well, Apple Maps. And it turns out that Nokia is the company that recieves the GPS data from both FedEx and UPS according to Madrigal’s latest article.


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## Sunray (Oct 4, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is the solution to Apple's map problem to buy Nokia?


 
To a degree, but the clear difference between Googles home brew solution and the delivery people data is that Google took pictures and have noted things like one way signs and such like. Its all very well knowing that at some GPS position there is a road, but I suspect that google could tell you how wide it was and if it was one way and that odd gap in the gps data is a bridge.

Why not just buy TomTom, Apple have 117 billion in cash. A few % of that would probably buy all the Sat Nav companies combined. 

Pretty certain to improve their map data.


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## elbows (Oct 4, 2012)

> If a company were to gain access to UPS’s GPS driving data they would make Google Maps’ data look as bad as, well, Apple Maps.


 
What a stupid thing to say, crap article.


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## dervish (Oct 4, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> *But did you know that UPS drives 3.3 billion miles a year and they track all of their trucks GPS data?*


 
And what will this gain them? They now know where GPS trucks drive, probably along roads, which they (should) know where they are already. 

GPS != Streetview. To think they do belies a staggering misunderstanding of the technologies involved.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well er that's one way to approach a solution...


genius as that's what they are called at the apple stores... get it.. never mind...


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> genius as that's what they are called at the apple stores... get it.. never mind...



Lol yeah, 40,000 employees will now apparently be crowd sourcing map reports via an Apple portal to keep the data clean from consumer contribution...


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## Crispy (Oct 4, 2012)

Not a bad idea tbh, given what they have to work with. Employees all over the world, with their existing local knowledge.


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## editor (Oct 4, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Not a bad idea tbh, given what they have to work with. Employees all over the world, with their existing local knowledge.


A surface, muchly scratched, methinks.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

editor said:


> A surface, muchly scratched, methinks.


that'll be the anodising process on the aluminium...


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Not a bad idea tbh, given what they have to work with. Employees all over the world, with their existing local knowledge.



Possibly, be interesting to see how voluntary this is. Will each store be monitored for reporting levels, will there be any nudge tactics like internal league tables or are Apple retail employees all hyper dedicated enough to do this of their own accord?


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2012)

Looks like Apple ain't messing about and is hard at work improving maps:



That's quite a leap visually in a short space of time! Of course what's critical isn't pretty renderings of landmarks it's locations being correct and poi being accurate and available...


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## editor (Oct 5, 2012)

The good news is that Apple are reopening railways lines and putting cake shops where town halls used to be. 

Which all sounds rather splendid to me, and I for one am pleased to see Apple finally putting their stashed billions to good use.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2012)

This is a more dramatic example of a fix!


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## pocketscience (Oct 5, 2012)

> Looks like Apple ain't messing about and is hard at work improving maps:


Depends on how you spin it. The fact that they released such rubbish for two of the most prominent US landmarks and have taken a month to fix them really does show the scale of this fuck up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2012)

Another fix, be interesting to see if this is more than just US places.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2012)

It comes to something when a map app managing to get something right becomes a news article.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2012)

Now this is interesting, the map tweaks and updates aren't just US focused. Apparently London Eye is in better shape now...


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2012)

editor said:


> It comes to something when a map app managing to get something right becomes a news article.


Repeated for good measure.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 6, 2012)

editor said:


> Repeated for good measure.


repeated for the sake of mincing a horse...


----------



## Elvis Parsley (Oct 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Now this is interesting...


no it isn't


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> repeated for the sake of mincing a horse...



Yup. Only a fool wouldn't understand that if you make a big deal about something not working then it becomes news when it's fixed!


----------



## pocketscience (Oct 6, 2012)

Somehow I don't think it's going to be "fixed" for a while yet. The rendering of 3 prominent international landmarks just sounds like iSpin to me.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> Somehow I don't think it's going to be "fixed" for a while yet. The rendering of 3 prominent international landmarks just sounds like iSpin to me.


Indeed, but it's sure suckering some over-excitable fans.


It's still got a long way to go too:


> KANGAROO Island on Franklin St, the Flinders Ranges in Dulwich and the Barossa Valley nestled among Rundle St cafes - welcome to Adelaide, Apple style.
> 
> Many of South Australia's most famous landmarks and tourist attractions have been moved to strange locations or have disappeared completely on Apple's new iPhone maps app, rolled out last month as part of the latest iOS6 software upgrade.
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2012)

Im not surprised they are fixing that stuff first because its the thing I was most surprised they messed up in the first place. I know how noisy sampled height data can be, but I thought they would manually fix the data for all recognisable US landmarks before they went live. I kind of expected a lot of the outrage at Apple Maps to be down to bad data outside the USA, but no they messed up just as badly at home too, fools.

As it was news when these locations were done badly and fair enough to post screenshots then, I suppose them being fixed is also newsworthy. The problem is it isnt half as entertaining!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> Somehow I don't think it's going to be "fixed" for a while yet. The rendering of 3 prominent international landmarks just sounds like iSpin to me.



Whether you think it's spin or not its still newsworthy due to the huge levels of coverage given to exactly these same 3D flaws.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2012)

elbows said:


> Im not surprised they are fixing that stuff first because its the thing I was most surprised they messed up in the first place. I know how noisy sampled height data can be, but I thought they would manually fix the data for all recognisable US landmarks before they went live. I kind of expected a lot of the outrage at Apple Maps to be down to bad data outside the USA, but no they messed up just as badly at home too, fools.
> 
> As it was news when these locations were done badly and fair enough to post screenshots then, I suppose them being fixed is also newsworthy. The problem is it isnt half as entertaining!



It's amusing that we had page after page after page of 3D maps fail touted as 'funny' etc but the minute Apple fixes some its dismissed as a pr stunt by the same idiots.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 6, 2012)

editor said:


> It's still got a long way to go too:


As I think I posted on a related thread, 3 private schools near my parents' house with, probably, a total studentage of c.2,000 kids, just appear as blank spaces.

afaik, all of them've been active since at least 1920 (?).

That's pretty specially bad data collection, wherever it came from.

e2a: tbf, the Cambridge college / town centre data is pretty shockingly shit, too. It's probably a bit unfair to lambast Apple for failing to pick up 3 private schools that've been around for 100ish years, when it's also missed out a tonne of institutions attached to one of the world's top 4ish academic institutions, a chunky subset of which've been around since 1400.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> As I think I posted on a related thread, 3 private schools near my parents' house with, probably, a total studentage of c.2,000 kids, just appear as blank spaces.
> 
> afaik, all of them've been active since at least 1920 (?).
> 
> That's pretty specially bad data collection, wherever it came from.


That is poor.

Still, the Statue of Liberty looks lovely in 3D now, which I'm sure is of great use to all.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 6, 2012)

Apple fucked up with Maps no doubt.Still I never used Google maps either so no big deal for me.One of their other fuckups was MobileMe (not that I had any trouble) and they've just given me another free year of 20gigs of storage.I don't think it's particularly largesse on their part,what with all their server farms I don't think they'll run out of storage any time soon but it helps keep punters on side.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 6, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Apple fucked up with Maps no doubt.Still I never used Google maps either so no big deal for me.One of their other fuckups was MobileMe (not that I had any trouble) and they've just given me another free year of 20gigs of storage.I don't think it's particularly largesse on their part,what with all their server farms I don't think they'll run out of storage any time soon but it helps keep punters on side.


Yeah. I thought MobileMe was fucking awesome.

I signed up for a free month just as it was being binned, which meant I got included in the cluster that got given a 'free year.' With an account that - for some reason - was bumped up to 20gb. I think that ended up rolling into 2 free years, for reasons unknown.

Very happy, at any rate


----------



## peterkro (Oct 6, 2012)

We got an email today with another free year each,it was supposed to end 30th of Sept.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 6, 2012)

peterkro said:


> We got an email today with another free year each,it was supposed to end 30th of Sept.


Oh? I might have an email somewhere, then


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2012)

Yup they've added another year, not quite sure why but makes the used happy it seems.


----------



## pocketscience (Oct 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Whether you think it's spin or not its still newsworthy due to the huge levels of coverage given to exactly these same 3D flaws.


I wasn't contesting weather those images are newsworthy or not but, now you come to mention it, they probably aren't.
I was pulling you up on the claim that Apple had fixed something. The scale of what need's fixing in Apple Maps to make it anywhere near competitive compared to what they've done in rendering 3 of the worlds most famous landmarks, just stinks of bullshit marketing to me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 7, 2012)

Three that have been noticed and none promoted by Apple yet it's their pr bullshit? Ok then...


----------



## pocketscience (Oct 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Three that have been noticed and none promoted by Apple yet it's their pr bullshit? Ok then...


Why would apple need to promote it themselves?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_marketing


> According to marketing professors Andreas Kaplan and Michael Haenlein, to make viral marketing work, three basic criteria must be met, i.e., giving the right message to the right messengers in the right environment:[10]
> 
> *Messenger:* Three specific types of messengers are required to ensure the transformation of an ordinary message into a viral one: market mavens, social hubs, and salespeople. Market mavens are individuals who are continuously ‘on the pulse’ of things (information specialists); they are usually among the first to get exposed to the message and who transmit it to their immediate social network. Social hubs are people with an exceptionally large number of social connections; they often know hundreds of different people and have the ability to serve as connectors or bridges between different subcultures. Salespeople might be needed who receive the message from the market maven, amplify it by making it more relevant and persuasive, and then transmit it to the social hub for further distribution. Market mavens may not be particularly convincing in transmitting the information.
> *Message:* Only messages that are both memorable and sufficiently interesting to be passed on to others have the potential to spur a viral marketing phenomenon. Making a message more memorable and interesting or simply more infectious, is often not a matter of major changes but minor adjustments.
> *Environment:* The environment is crucial in the rise of successful viral marketing – small changes in the environment lead to huge results, and people are much more sensitive to environment. The timing and context of the campaign launch must be right.


It does happen you know.

From 3 images of famous landmarks with improved renderings to _"fixed",_ in one almighty leap.

Congratulations!


----------



## gosub (Oct 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's amusing that we had page after page after page of 3D maps fail touted as 'funny' etc but the minute Apple fixes some its dismissed as a pr stunt by the same idiots.


 

Not as amusing as the the title of this thread and OP, and subsequent analysis of said software.

You brought a cheese knife to a gun fight


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 7, 2012)

I actually quite like the new Maps app, because 3D maps are basically pointless shite to mess around with, so an app that can provide amusement while messing about with them because the models are all messed up serves that purpose admirably. Also it gives iPhone owners something to lol about with each other.


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2012)

gosub said:


> Not as amusing as the the title of this thread and OP, and subsequent analysis of said software.
> 
> You brought a cheese knife to a gun fight


And some!


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 7, 2012)

Thought I'd test it for my walk to the station this morning as I've always planned my pedestrian route by instinct. 

No pedestrian option


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Thought I'd test it for my walk to the station this morning as I've always planned my pedestrian route by instinct.
> 
> No pedestrian option


That's very poor. It must do cycling directions though, yes?

(Mind you, I was using Google Maps voice nav on my bike late last night and I got a bit lost. But that may have been more to do with the Brixton Beer I'd been sampling earlier!)


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 7, 2012)

Ahhhh, just rechecked, and tbf it is there. Pedestrian, bus & car. I was looking in the wrong places 

E2a: and the route it suggests would be pedestrian only (blocked roads for cars) but misses out a couple of shortcuts / footpaths that anyone who knows the area would take.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 7, 2012)

gosub said:


> Not as amusing as the the title of this thread and OP, and subsequent analysis of said software.
> 
> You brought a cheese knife to a gun fight



Er ok, you didn't notice that the thread was posted yonks ago based clearly on the source right? It was clear once we had our hands on the maps what was really going on and I completely agreed! 

It's news that they fucked up and now it's news it's being fixed (in part), of course all fanbois love one and not the other, personally I'm interested in how a company like Apple can royally screw up like this and the real world impact.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 7, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I actually quite like the new Maps app, because 3D maps are basically pointless shite to mess around with, so an app that can provide amusement while messing about with them because the models are all messed up serves that purpose admirably. Also it gives iPhone owners something to lol about with each other.



I prefer the look of Googles offering, Apple's looks too cartoon like for me. One way it is nicer is the way the road names etc change as you turn the map around, means you're not reading everything upside down due to your orientation...


----------



## lefteri (Oct 7, 2012)

this thread needs to calm down from the usual boring mac vs google fanboy wars, step back and marvel at this race to perfect what is lets face it amazing technology.  Those of you who say it's not really useful are missing the point by a country mike.  I could spend hours exploring cities I will never go to, like the most incredible science fiction only real.  The feeling of jaw-dropping amazement when I 1st saw google earth has not been matched since and perhaps google have become complacent since the only real competitor was Msoft's bing which only brought the birdseye views, useful as they are, to the table - 

viva the GIS space race


----------



## gosub (Oct 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Er ok, you didn't notice that the thread was posted yonks ago based clearly on the source right? It was clear once we had our hands on the maps what was really going on and I completely agreed!
> 
> It's news that they fucked up and now it's news it's being fixed (in part), of course all fanbois love one and not the other, personally I'm interested in how a company like Apple can royally screw up like this and the real world impact.


 
And yet you consider the people posting that the thread title is demonstrably wrong idiots.

The real world impact is likely to be :long after the software is cleaned up, a lot less people will be doing their below the line PR for them


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 7, 2012)

gosub said:


> And yet you consider the people posting that the thread title is demonstrably wrong idiots.
> 
> The real world impact is likely to be :long after the software is cleaned up, a lot less people will be doing their below the line PR for them


 yes... so we should nominally ban any talk of any corporate products for fear of being a sublimated virial advertiser good plan... editor stick that in the mod's forum eh?  urban wide ban on any mentions of corporations or their products in any context... I wonder how that might impact on this place... 

or maybe some people need to get a sense of perspective...

it's the fucking internet... 

they'll what's broke and netweek some other tech fuck up will be along to lulz at... 

oh wait no this is srs bznz...


----------



## lefteri (Oct 8, 2012)

Fanbots


----------



## gosub (Oct 8, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes... so we should nominally ban any talk of any corporate products for fear of being a sublimated virial advertiser good plan... editor stick that in the mod's forum eh? urban wide ban on any mentions of corporations or their products in any context... I wonder how that might impact on this place...
> 
> or maybe some people need to get a sense of perspective...
> 
> ...


I think when you've set the frame of reference, and had your arse handed to you, you are not really in position to smugly call your antagonists idiots


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 8, 2012)

gosub said:


> I think when you've set the frame of reference, and had your arse handed to you, you are not really in position to smugly call your antagonists idiots


yet you're a still postin...

why is that...


----------



## lefteri (Oct 8, 2012)

so when are apple going to release this for the actual internet rather than just on their own platforms?


----------



## gosub (Oct 8, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yet you're a still postin...
> 
> why is that...


If Apple fanbois think its idiocy not to buy into their hype however misplaced, its more of a cult than I thought.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

lefteri said:


> so when are apple going to release this for the actual internet rather than just on their own platforms?


Never, probably.


----------



## lefteri (Oct 8, 2012)

and therein lies the problem


----------



## Sunray (Oct 8, 2012)

Its still shit and how long do I have to wait for a them to fix it. I tried to use it last night and its POI database is non-existent.

I'm waiting for the HTC 8x and what the SatNav options for WM8 look like. Its interesting how much I've got use to my phone being my personal guide and now its broken I'll get a different phone to get back what I've lost. Bing Maps is pretty decent, in some ways better than google maps in London as it can bring up the A-Z type map.  I'm liking look and weird colour schemes of those WM8 phones.


----------



## lefteri (Oct 8, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Bing Maps is pretty decent, in some ways better than google maps in London as it can bring up the A-Z type map.


 
Bing maps bought out multimaps I think and that's where the scanned maps come from - originally these were one of the other paper cartography companies, can't remember which one, but not A-Z - no oranges & lemons on the bing maps which are the hallmark of the A-Z

incidentally book of the week on R4 this week is a recent book on the history of cartography by Simon somebodyorother, caught it today, fascinating stuff


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Its still shit and how long do I have to wait for a them to fix it. I tried to use it last night and its POI database is non-existent.


I think it's going to be a very, very long time until all the minor details are put in. It's an immense job.





Sunray said:


> I'm waiting for the HTC 8x and what the SatNav options for WM8 look like. Its interesting how much I've got use to my phone being my personal guide and now its broken I'll get a different phone to get back what I've lost. Bing Maps is pretty decent, in some ways better than google maps in London as it can bring up the A-Z type map. I'm liking look and weird colour schemes of those WM8 phones.


I'm curiously tempted by the WM8 phones too - there's a real freshness about them. Bing Maps are pretty damn good too, although force of habit keeps me with Google Maps (and the fact that they do the job just fine, and on Android we get the latest updates first).


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

lefteri said:


> Bing maps bought out multimaps


Yes, they did - years ago in fact (2007).


----------



## gosub (Oct 8, 2012)

editor said:


> I think it's going to be a very, very long time until all the minor details are put in. It's an immense job.I'm curiously tempted by the WM8 phones too - there's a real freshness about them. Bing Maps are pretty damn good too, although force of habit keeps me with Google Maps (and the fact that they do the job just fine, and on Android we get the latest updates first).


During which time the other players in market will evolve and Apple lose market share . Their next real window will be when they frag all 'unwated' apps when they bring out IO7


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 8, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Its still shit and how long do I have to wait for a them to fix it. I tried to use it last night and its POI database is non-existent.
> 
> I'm waiting for the HTC 8x and what the SatNav options for WM8 look like. Its interesting how much I've got use to my phone being my personal guide and now its broken I'll get a different phone to get back what I've lost. Bing Maps is pretty decent, in some ways better than google maps in London as it can bring up the A-Z type map.  I'm liking look and weird colour schemes of those WM8 phones.


Its unusable. I tried again the other  day and gave up. Slow and crap. I use Google maps lots and lots so its a shame Ive lost that function on my ipad.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 8, 2012)

You've not totally lost it, as there is a web app that google make that you can put straight onto the place of the Apple one, its nearly as good but somewhat fiddly to use compared to the old one.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm not bothering, I'm using my phone (not an iphone) instead.  Had I an iphone as well, I'd be hopping mad.  Not being able to use maps on the ipad is less of an inconvenience since I got a phone with a bigger screen.


----------



## gosub (Oct 8, 2012)

Can you not open in safari?


----------



## gosub (Oct 8, 2012)

Sunray said:


> You've not totally lost it, as there is a web app that google make that you can put straight onto the place of the Apple one, its nearly as good but somewhat fiddly to use compared to the old one.


Will you not then end up with two large data files eating your internal memory?

Eta is only a couple of meg so not that large


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 9, 2012)

gosub said:


> If Apple fanbois think its idiocy not to buy into their hype however misplaced, its more of a cult than I thought.


does it advance the discussion to characture anyone who purchases an apple product as a 'fanboi' not to mention the inherent sexism within that characterisation...

are builders fanbois how about dustmen or traffic wardens....

or is it just that the conceit on your part, mixed with some primitive playground ethic of just needing to sneer at people who makes choices you don't like, as is the case with others making similar claims...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> does it advance the discussion to characture anyone who purchases an apple product as a 'fanboi' not to mention the inherent sexism within that characterisation...
> 
> are builders fanbois how about dustmen or traffic wardens....
> 
> or is it just that the conceit on your part, mixed with some primitive playground ethic of just needing to sneer at people who makes choices you don't like, as is the case with others making similar claims...


 
It's the usual tedious crap really. Buying an Apple product might have meant you were or leant toward fandom about ten years ago but these days? Everyone I know with an iPhone would laugh hard an any idiot describing them as fanbois or girls for that matter. It's just an internet trolling tactic so we don't discuss things of substance...


----------



## gosub (Oct 9, 2012)

How you ended up there from what I posted I neither know nor care


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 9, 2012)

gosub said:


> How you ended up there from what I posted I neither know nor care


so you'll cease posting such nonsense... perhaps?


----------



## pocketscience (Oct 9, 2012)

gosub said:


> How you ended up there from what I posted I neither know nor care


Apple Maps?
:-D


----------



## gosub (Oct 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so you'll cease posting such nonsense... perhaps?


What cos you can use faulty inductive logic to invoke a collective? 


The average user ain't boosting from a decidedly rear foot on Internet forums, nor to get back on topic are they that enthused that their rendering of Brooklyn bridge isn't wobbly, not while the premium product spent a fortune on is no longer trustable to get them to Dorian Road.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 10, 2012)

gosub said:


> What cos you can use faulty inductive logic to invoke a collective?
> 
> 
> The average user ain't boosting from a decidedly rear foot on Internet forums, nor to get back on topic are they that enthused that their rendering of Brooklyn bridge isn't wobbly, not while the premium product spent a fortune on is no longer trustable to get them to Dorian Road.


what you talking about the average user will never touch 3d maps as they can barely navigate at the best of times let alone on a phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2012)

gosub said:


> How you ended up there from what I posted I neither know nor care


 
Christ you're too thick to bother with...


----------



## Maltin (Oct 10, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> what you talking about the average user will never touch 3d maps as they can barely navigate at the best of times let alone on a phone.


So in your opinion, the average phone user is unable to use a map??


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2012)

The piece illustrates the size of the fuck up: 


> Developers: We warned Apple about iOS maps quality
> *App developers say they gave Apple plenty of warning about issues with its iOS maps app revamp.*
> 
> To the casual observer it might appear that Apple was caught off guard by just how bad its in-house maps app was. But the company had plenty of warning.
> ...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 10, 2012)

Maltin said:


> So in your opinion, the average phone user is unable to use a map??


no that's your opinion.

I've said the average user won't use a map.  like they won't use the myriad of other functions their phone has.  like the average user doesn't use the myriad of other functions a pc or mac has.

most people use their phones to make calls, text, facebook, and twitter maybe keep lists or notes on.  that's it.  it's why for the last 20 years pricing plans have focused on charging for calls and texts... sure the younger users and early adopters are using it for instagram maps general browsing but the average user isn't.  

They buy these products because they believe them to be better newer or buy into the sales pitch or hype surrounding them. Not because they want specific technical features.


----------



## Maltin (Oct 10, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no that's your opinion..


No, I think you'll find it was your opinion.




			
				GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> they can barely navigate at the best of times


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I've said the average user won't use a map. like they won't use the myriad of other functions their phone has.


You don't half talk some rubbish, Garf.



> 48 million US mobile users accessed maps on their mobile device during the three month average period ending May 2011, an increase of 39% from the previous year, driven in large part by the increase in smartphone adoption, according to comScore. The study found that map usage via mobile applications was the primary access point for smartphone owners as the map app audience doubled in size over the past year.
> 
> The strong growth in mobile map usage and flattening of desktop map usage is indicative of broader behavioral shifts being wrought by smartphones, according to comScore. For years, consumers have been able to check directions on their desktop computers prior to leaving their home or office, now smartphones allow people to skip this step and access maps on the go, as they need them, showing off one of the most powerful capabilities of mobile - just-in-time-information.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 10, 2012)

My boss doesn't have his own computer, he can't type, and dictates all his emails. He uses maps on his phone.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 11, 2012)

editor said:


> You don't half talk some rubbish, Garf.


the states have always been early adopters of tech, the EU less so, particularly the UK....

as well you know... hell we all know look at the state of internet provision in this country...


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> the states have always been early adopters of tech, the EU less so, particularly the UK....


You're still talking utter rubbish mate.


> UK Leads the Way with 40 Percent of Smartphone Map Users
> In March 2012, 90.4 million EU5 visitors accessed Maps sites via computer, representing 49.6 percent of the internet audience. In comparison, 39.8 million smartphone users accessed maps via their device, representing 35 percent of the EU5 smartphone audience. France ranked first for penetration of Maps sites via computer (53.4 percent reach) but ranked last when it came to smartphone map access (30.4 percent reach). The UK was the top market in terms of Map access via smartphones at 40.2 percent.
> 
> http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Releases/2012/5/EU5_Map_Usage_via_Smartphone_Growing


----------



## mauvais (Oct 11, 2012)

The UK has led smartphone adoption for a few years AFAIK. Maybe Singapore is higher.


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2012)

mauvais said:


> The UK has led smartphone adoption for a few years AFAIK. Maybe Singapore is higher.


We were _miles_ ahead of America when it came to texting too.
Because of their totally fucked up non-interoperable networks, SMS was really slow to grow over there.


----------



## gosub (Oct 11, 2012)

Yanks were big into laptops while Europe was big on mobiles pee smart phone days.S Korea and Japan haven't exactly been backwards in going forwards either


----------



## gosub (Oct 11, 2012)

UK also lead field in vector graphic mapping (development of) good chapter in secret return of British boffin on vodaphones exploits. Even jeppesen, the only mapping I risk lives on brought in British


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2012)

gosub said:


> Yanks were big into laptops while Europe was big on mobiles pee smart phone days.S Korea and Japan haven't exactly been backwards in going forwards either


Where the Americans were ahead of us was the internet. I remember when I first went over to work there and being amazed by billboard adverts for _websites!_

They nailed the idea of the (ahem) 'third place' coffee bars way before us too. Back in the early 2000s, if you'd rocked up in a cafe and plugged your laptop into their wall socket, you'd be thrown out pronto.


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2012)

Apple are going to have some more catching up to do: 
*Google Maps get 250,000 mile Street View update*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2012)

They really need to hurry and get maps useful, not being able to find something basic like a pub is annoying...


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 11, 2012)

This is what happens when you put project managers in charge of quality Instead of techies


----------



## Maltin (Oct 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They really need to hurry and get maps useful, not being able to find something basic like a pub is annoying...


It's all part of the plan. 

Anyway, most people apparently don't use maps on their phone, so you might be in for a bit of wait with Apple maps getting up to date. 

On the bright side, hopefully Google will release their map app soon and we can all move on and forget about this debacle.


----------



## Winot (Oct 11, 2012)

Just as an aside in relation to the adoption of online maps, I took my 7 year old to the Museum of London last Saturday. They have an interactive version of Charles Booth's poverty map of London - quite nicely done, touchscreen where you zoom in on different areas etc. 

She wanted to know why there wasn't Street View.


----------



## gosub (Oct 11, 2012)

Winot said:


> Just as an aside in relation to the adoption of online maps, I took my 7 year old to the Museum of London last Saturday. They have an interactive version of Charles Booth's poverty map of London - quite nicely done, touchscreen where you zoom in on different areas etc.
> 
> She wanted to know why there wasn't Street View.


 Its weird what younger generations take for granted


----------



## gosub (Oct 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Where the Americans were ahead of us was the internet. I remember when I first went over to work there and being amazed by billboard adverts for _websites!_
> 
> They nailed the idea of the (ahem) 'third place' coffee bars way before us too. Back in the early 2000s, if you'd rocked up in a cafe and plugged your laptop into their wall socket, you'd be thrown out pronto.


I still find cinema adverts for web browsers odd


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2012)

Anyone still hating Apple maps could do a great deal worse than downloading Maps +. It's a great free replacement for maps, quite similar to the original app which also used Google's map data.


----------



## Winot (Oct 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone still hating Apple maps could do a great deal worse than downloading Maps +. It's a great free replacement for maps, quite similar to the original app which also used Google's map data.



Looks nice but getting directions/route finding is a complete pain.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2012)

Yeah I noticed that after posting too, they could have made that a lot easier...


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2012)

Looks like you might be in for a long wait for Google Maps - if Apple decide to approve it, which is being reported as unlikely.


> Sources at Google familiar with its mapping plans say they are "not optimistic" that Apple will ever approve a dedicated Google Maps iOS app. Though the app is reportedly in development and should be ready to ship by the end of the year, the sources say their plans are only proceeding in "the unlikely event" that Apple will choose to approve the app.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/05/google-maps-doubt-iphone


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## mrs quoad (Nov 6, 2012)

afaict, that's just over 900 words containing 4 factoids:


Apple maps 6.1 beta was released to developers last Thursday.
Google is 'reported to be' working on an iOS maps app, but doesn't sound too enthusiastic.
'A source in google' thinks it's unlikely "is not optimistic" that Google Maps would be approved for the App Store.
Two mapping apps that draw on google data (one of which is currently rated 2.5 stars from 5 reviews, the other of which is pulling 1.5 stars from 51 reviews) don't appear in Apple's maps collection.
I've re-read it a couple of times. I don't think I've missed anything salient, though would gladly be corrected.

Not for the first time, what truly amazes me is how little content can be turned into that many words!


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2012)

Well maybe it's all rubbish then, and you'll have Google Maps back this week.


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## mrs quoad (Nov 6, 2012)

editor said:


> Well maybe it's all rubbish then, and you'll have Google Maps back this week.


All _what's _rubbish?

Has anyone suggested anything's rubbish?

Or that, even if it was, that Google maps would be coming to iOS? Now, next week, or ever?

e2a: you understand that the post you were commenting on was intended as a synthesis, not a criticism of the 'information' itself? Do you disagree with that synthesis? Because I was inviting people to do so, afaict, because I'm fully aware I might've missed things.


----------



## elbows (Nov 27, 2012)

Another firing apparently.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-manager-after-flaws-hurt-iphone-5-debut.html



> Apple Inc. (AAPL) has fired the manager responsible for its troubled mapping software, seeking to win back the trust of users disappointed after the program debuted in September, according to people familiar with the move.
> 
> Richard Williamson, who oversaw the mapping team, was pushed out by Senior Vice President Eddy Cue, said the people, who asked not to be named because the information wasn’t yet public


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2012)

Greatest thread title ever.


----------



## elbows (Dec 1, 2012)

Not sure exactly when it got updated but the UK satellite images are no longer a complete joke. In my brief testing of several locations, gone are the black & white images and the towns obscured completely by clouds.

In some locations and zoom levels the images are identical to the ones google are using, in some places they are slightly better, in some slightly worse. I havent tested enough locations to be able to say the sat images are comparable, but I would not be surprised if that was the case.

When zooming out to a level where huge amounts of the country can be seen at once, it looks like they've used the same images as google (clouds are in the same places), but apple have tweaked the colours so that rivers show up a lot more, which is quite nice to look at and explore.

So, thats the easy to fix bit done, which frankly I couldnt believe they messed up in the first place. Many of the other problems may be far less trivial to sort out.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 3, 2012)

Been using the turn by turn a bit lately, have to say it's very nice indeed. Perhaps the only thing about the app that works as advertised (I'm still seeing old mistakes unfixed and yet when I report stuff to Google I get an email and fix within 24 hours).


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 3, 2012)

Winot said:


> Looks nice but getting directions/route finding is a complete pain.


 
I ended up dumping it, found the navigation far too fiddly! Tried Nokia's 'Here' which was terrible, buggy, and slow loading...


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 10, 2012)

http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/dec/10/apple-maps-life-threatening-australian-police

Oops.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/dec/10/apple-maps-life-threatening-australian-police
> 
> Oops.


Indeed. If this was happening in the US the law suits would be happening thick and fast. That said, you've got to be mad to rely on Apple Maps as their occasional uselessness is well documented. Perhaps Apple should add a warning notice when people start up the app?


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## elbows (Dec 10, 2012)

Bonus madness points for not at least checking the satellite view before trying such a journey. Its quite alarming how much trust people place in sat nav directions at the best of times, so Apples terrible mistakes are certainly a recipe for disaster.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> http://m.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/dec/10/apple-maps-life-threatening-australian-police
> 
> Oops.


 
That's terrible. Thankfully it's getting a lot of coverage on the big apple blogs.


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 12, 2012)

http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-apple-maps-australia-138774/ Chuckle


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 12, 2012)

Heh very cute.


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## Winot (Dec 13, 2012)

Google maps app launched for iPhone:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20694028

Had a quick play and seems very slick indeed. Street view and directions all present and correct.


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## maldwyn (Dec 13, 2012)

What, Apple have allowed a Google app on their precious phone - no fuss, no bother - I don't believe it. 



ETA ... /joke.


----------



## dervish (Dec 13, 2012)

This makes me very happy. I wouldn't be surprised to see it hit top download by the end of the week and as the userbase goes up so does the traffic accuracy as well as the usefulness of the maps in general. Plus the competition should mean Nokia and Apple have to up their game.


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## Callum91 (Dec 13, 2012)

Any word on whether or not it's coming to the iPad too? Apple maps is fucking horrendous.


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## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> What, Apple have allowed a Google app on their precious phone - no fuss, no bother - I don't believe it.



There have been a ton of Google apps on iOS for years.


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 13, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> There have been a ton of Google apps on iOS for years.


I know, I was joking in response to those who said Apple wouldn't allow a google map app in their garden.


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## peterkro (Dec 13, 2012)

Google maps now in itunes store.

(bit slow on the uptake)


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

If enough folks on iOS jump back to Google Maps, that's going to seriously dent any prospect of Apple Maps even catching up with the app, let alone surpassing it.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I know, I was joking in response to those who said Apple wouldn't allow a google map app in their garden.


It was Google who said that. Apple have a bit of history of keeping Google apps out, if it suits them. Looks like they've had to swallow a bitter pill on this one.


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## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2012)

editor said:


> It was Google who said that. Apple have a bit of history of keeping Google apps out, if it suits them. Looks like they've had to swallow a bitter pill on this one.


Which are the Google apps that have been kept out?


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## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Which are the Google apps that have been kept out?


Google Voice was kept out for a long time.


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## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Google Voice was kept out for a long time.


It makes clear in that article - despite the headline - that was AT&T's doing, not Apple's.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> It makes clear in that article - despite the headline - that was AT&T's doing, not Apple's.


Umm, it was Apple who pulled it from their store, not AT&T. They may have had some influence in the matter, but Apple pulled it out of the app store for everyone, under their dubious "duplicated features" rule.

http://www.wired.com/business/2009/07/apple-rejects-google-voice/


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## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2012)

Original article said:
			
		

> *Update*: John Gruber has confirmed with a trusted source that AT&T is to blame for the Google Voice ban


 



			
				 Article Comment said:
			
		

> Holio • 3 months ago
> This is a very strange article. You say blame is squarely on AT&T for the blocking of Voice, etc. Yet you say Apple is the culprit here. And why? By working with their partner? That makes no sense. If AT&T is behind the block and Apple is cool with it, AT&T is the culprit, not Apple. Apple is just their partner in this, they have to abide by a mutual contractual obligation. It's the same with any company partner-relationship. How strange of you to say Apple is stifling by doing this yet it's been confirmed from multiple sources that AT&T is the one behind this, even with Schiller himself looking to approve it.


Says it all really.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Says it all really.


Not sure why you've quoted some random user comment there, but the fact remains the same: Apple - for its own business reasons - blocked a Google app.

And here's what the actual article says about that:


> [UPDATE 22 AUG 2009: So much for being “that simple”. According to both Apple’s and AT&T’s response to an FCC inquiry, the decision was Apple’s alone.]


----------



## sim667 (Dec 13, 2012)

Sods law, I just opened google maps and its put in the wrong place


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## pesh (Dec 13, 2012)

good news for Google, might get a few column inches for something other than their dubious tax avoidance schemes for the first time in a few weeks.

yesterdays headlines made me want to go smash their windows.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/schmidt_proud_capitalist_google/


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

pesh said:


> yesterdays headlines made me want to go smash their windows.
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/13/schmidt_proud_capitalist_google/


Can you do some of Apple's shiny ones while you're at it?


> How Apple paid a tax bill of just 1.9% on its overseas profits by using complex avoidance schemes
> 
> The technology giant, which is worth £390bn, used complex tax avoidance schemes to lower its final bill to a mere 1.9 per cent.
> 
> ...


----------



## pesh (Dec 13, 2012)

we've established that Apple are a bunch of cunts for many reasons, but for Google's Executive Chairman to respond to their recent criticism by whipping out his "Don't Be Evil' branded corporate cock and slapping the world in the face with it while shouting 'Suck it Bitches', well, thats an interesting approach.


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 13, 2012)

I really can't see Tim Cook doing that.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

pesh said:


> we've established that Apple are a bunch of cunts for many reasons, but for Google's Executive Chairman to respond to their recent criticism by whipping out his "Don't Be Evil' branded corporate cock and slapping the world in the face with it while shouting 'Suck it Bitches', well, thats an interesting approach.


They're all a bunch of cunts. The whole lot of them. But some are bigger, richer, more exploitative cunts than others.


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## elbows (Dec 13, 2012)

editor said:


> They're all a bunch of cunts. The whole lot of them. But some are bigger, richer, more exploitative cunts than others.


 
If I look at a top ten list of cunts I dont generally decide to have a cutoff point where it is fine to cheerlead for some below the very top positions.

Woo woo, lesser-cunts market share has increased. Yippee, lesser cunt has slapped top cunt in the face and made them look even more cunty. Lesser cunt getting ever more cuntry whilst still pretending not to be a cunt at all is irrelevant so long as top cunt is still top. Pay no attention to the cunt behind the cuntain, bibble bibble bibble.


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

Google Maps vs Apple Maps comparison. 


> Google Maps and Apple Maps both offer excellent turn-by-turn navigation and won't cost you a penny, but when it comes to the crunch Google's app beats Apple's one hands down. Apple's app doesn't come close in the accuracy stakes, and the Google app is also nicer and faster to use.
> 
> The downside, of course, is that you're giving ever more data to Google, although you can opt out of the data sharing and Google Account integration if you're feeling a little tinfoil hat-y.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 13, 2012)

That is the end of Apple Maps.

They should cease all work on it, donate the rest of the budget to charity and delete it off the phone at the next update.

Nobody apart from very ignorant people will use that application ever again. I for one am very grateful to google for supplying this App as it saves me having to buy a Nexus 4.  My iPhone 4 is still perfectly decent.


----------



## elbows (Dec 13, 2012)

editor said:


> If enough folks on iOS jump back to Google Maps, that's going to seriously dent any prospect of Apple Maps even catching up with the app, let alone surpassing it.


 
That depends how much we buy into the Apple line that user feedback is what will improve their product. In reality I suspect thats only a small part of it, they are going to need to fix a lot of it by their own efforts & that of their data partners.

Over time I expect Apple Maps will eventually earn the label 'adequate'. They'll have to come up with some major new innovations & advancements in order for it to actually shine, and they may be too busy getting the basics right for that to happen for ages. And in terms of business location data, I think they need better partners and it will still be a struggle to beat Google on that one.

For now I would only recommend Apple Maps if you want to look at major rivers when zoomed out, or if 3rd parties get round to using the Apple Maps API and then add some real nice additional datasets and features on top of the maps. For certain cities the heightmap data might have some appeal when messing around, and I cant comment on turn-by-turn navigation as I'm not a driver.

As I mentioned the other day the satellite images for swathes of the UK are no longer a complete joke, but thats not exactly great praise.


----------



## Winot (Dec 13, 2012)

Sunray said:


> .
> Nobody apart from very ignorant people will use that application ever again. I for one am very grateful to google for supplying this App as it saves me having to buy a Nexus 4.  My iPhone 4 is still perfectly decent.



I'm assuming it's not possible though to have anything other than Apple Maps as the default mapping app, so unless this changes users will be forced to use it when linking to a location from another app.


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## Winot (Dec 13, 2012)

The other issue with Apple Maps is that it doesn't suggest public transport routes. If you try, it will suggest an alternative app to do that for you, such as...

... Google Maps


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## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

Winot said:


> The other issue with Apple Maps is that it doesn't suggest public transport routes. If you try, it will suggest an alternative app to do that for you, such as...
> 
> ... Google Maps


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2012)

This really represents a big - and very negative - shift at Apple.

With Apple, the user experience _always_ came first, and users benefited from a wonderfully slick, smooth and integrated system, but their move to maps was purely a business-motivated one, with their users being royally fucked over as a result.


----------



## elbows (Dec 13, 2012)

Thats not untrue but I wouldnt quite put it like that. Rather I'd say that they've always taken care to align their business motivations with user experience ones. In this case they botched the implementation, perhaps due to arrogance and underestimating the size of the task.

We cannot assume it is a shift that will set the new shitty standard for future developments, for the huge failure may make them less likely to repeat the same mistakes in future.


----------



## elbows (Dec 13, 2012)

Winot said:


> I'm assuming it's not possible though to have anything other than Apple Maps as the default mapping app, so unless this changes users will be forced to use it when linking to a location from another app.


 
The devil is in the detail on that one. A separate google maps app installed on a users device is not going to show up in other apps. The Apple Maps API that other apps may use is now based on Apple Maps rather than Google Maps. But the Location API is separate. And I dont think there is anything to stop developers from accessing Googles stuff via the network and combining that with the location of the iOS device in question.

In practice I assume what this means depends on the exact scenario. Developers wanting to rely on native API's built into iOS are indeed now faced with Apple Maps. Certain forms of sharing of stuff, again based on what comes with and is allowed on iOS are a similar story. But there are ways for developers to work round this for some scenarios, and the drawbacks as far as the user is concerned, and whether they even notice, will also vary.


----------



## elbows (Dec 13, 2012)

Bah, wake me when there is an ipad version of google maps! The pain isnt over yet.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2012)

editor said:


> This really represents a big - and very negative - shift at Apple.
> 
> With Apple, the user experience _always_ came first, and users benefited from a wonderfully slick, smooth and integrated system, but their move to maps was purely a business-motivated one, with their users being royally fucked over as a result.


The reason Apple got rid of the Google Maps app is because Google refused to update it; so before you start berating Apple for it why  don't you go knocking on Google's door?


----------



## elbows (Dec 13, 2012)

I dont think that does justice to the reality of the situation at all.


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 13, 2012)

The actual fuck? "Sign in" to use a map app?! Get to fuck. 

Time to create a false account.

E2a: ah, ok, it is skippable, just not obviously so


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2012)

Winot said:


> Google maps app launched for iPhone:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20694028
> 
> Had a quick play and seems very slick indeed. Street view and directions all present and correct.


 
It's very nice, hopefully we'll see the iPad version soon too.


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 13, 2012)

This is annoying now. I don't mind reading about this on the internet because I'm a geek, but the fact that this was just on national BBC news at 6 winds me up. 

Does this bother anyone else (even tech fans?)


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 13, 2012)

Oh and apparently it's the top app on the app store now


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2012)

Any idea how you get the 3D flyover thing working on it? Can't seem to find a toggle...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 13, 2012)

Callum91 said:


> Any word on whether or not it's coming to the iPad too? Apple maps is fucking horrendous.


I hope so, I tried to look up 181 oxford street w1 on my ipad today. It said, 'we can not find the location'. Gave up and used Google on my samsung phone.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Any idea how you get the 3D flyover thing working on it? Can't seem to find a toggle...


What 3D flyover feature?


pinkmonkey said:


> I hope so, I tried to look up 181 oxford street w1 on my ipad today. It said, 'we can not find the location'. Gave up and used Google on my samsung phone.


That's odd. I just typed that address into my iPad (using Apple Maps) and it found it fine.  As for Google Maps do you do know that you can use the iPhone app on an iPad, or even the Google Maps on their website?


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2012)

The 3D becomes active if you zoom right in on the map view b


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## Sunray (Dec 13, 2012)

The issue originally stemmed from Google and Apple and quite a few other tech companies being a bit close at some point. This caused anti-trust issues for them and they then had to show they were competing etc.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/24/anti-poaching-agreements/

This is still bubbling along

http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/19/steve-jobs-antitrust/


----------



## elbows (Dec 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> A separate google maps app installed on a users device is not going to show up in other apps.


 
Oops I got that wrong. I forgot that there is acutally some shared application stuff in iOS, most commonly accessed by developers using URL's that differ in some way to standard web URLs.

And google have implemented this for the new maps app:

https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/ios/urlscheme


----------



## Sunray (Dec 14, 2012)

Winot said:


> I'm assuming it's not possible though to have anything other than Apple Maps as the default mapping app, so unless this changes users will be forced to use it when linking to a location from another app.


 
No, while you can't delete the App from the phone, you can remove it from the bar at the bottom and bury it in a folder labelled 'HoHoNo'


----------



## Sunray (Dec 14, 2012)

Callum91 said:


> Any word on whether or not it's coming to the iPad too? Apple maps is fucking horrendous.


 
Google maps Web App is OK, easier to use on the pad as well.


----------



## T & P (Dec 16, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's very nice, hopefully we'll see the iPad version soon too.


Got to try it for the first time today as we drove from Brixton to Hackney. It does a passable job as sat nav and the voice commands are as good as what you'd expect on a 'real' sat nav device. Sometimes the instructions can lag behind a bit- I guess it depends on the signal one is getting in the area in question, but the display is clear and one can always consult the screen if in doubt. Not bad for a free sat nav!

One would need to keep the phone on charge for longer journeys though. At least with older models like my 3GS


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 16, 2012)

Apparently the massive hunger for Google Maps has pushed up iOS6 take up by a staggering 0.2%. Impressive!


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## maldwyn (Dec 16, 2012)

But I imagine most would've downloaded it by now, though having said that, I haven't got round to it yet.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2012)

That 0.2% figure was the first 24 hours after the Google Map went live.


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## editor (Dec 17, 2012)

The Google Maps iOS app has been the No. 1 free app in the App Store for the past few days.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2413304,00.asp


----------



## mrs quoad (Dec 18, 2012)

Apple Maps wins Wired's 'Top Tech Fail' of the year award 

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/12/the-biggest-tech-fails-of-1012/?pid=4086


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Apple Maps wins Wired's 'Top Tech Fail' of the year award
> 
> http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/12/the-biggest-tech-fails-of-1012/?pid=4086


A well worthy winner and supplier of much mirth with some of those fabulously mad graphics.


----------



## elbows (Dec 18, 2012)

It was the obvious choice for that award and if it hadnt won I would have been surprised. Certainly one of the worst fails I can recall, in terms of the bad PR they got at least. OK maybe not quite as bad as the Sinclair C5.

Not surprised to see the Nexus Q there either, which had the worst price:feature ratio I've seen in a very long time. And Microsoft should think themselves lucky that Wired pulled their punches and put 'laplets' on the list rather than the Surface, Windows 8 or Windows RT.


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2012)

Blimey. The Google Maps for iOS app was downloaded 10,000,000 times in less than 48 hours.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/google-maps-10-million-downloads/


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 18, 2012)

> If Apple Maps had been up to scratch when it launched back in September, it’s possible Google Maps wouldn’t have even got 10 downloads last week, let alone 10 million​


 

It's nice to have both options.
​​


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> It's nice to have both options.


Where did that idiotic comment come from?


----------



## elbows (Dec 18, 2012)

The article you linked to.


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## maldwyn (Dec 18, 2012)

I quoted from the main article you linked to, the 'it's nice to have both options' was my own comment. 

I think the 10 million downloads in 48hrs is a credit to iOS 6


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2012)

elbows said:


> The article you linked to.


Quoting sources is good!


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Quoting sources is good!





editor said:


> Quoting sources is good!


Sorry, thought it was obvious as it was directly under you post - however, being aquatinted with what you post is also good!


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2012)

This study suggests that Apple's maps are still pretty shit then, with one third of the 100 UK listings they looked up being inaccurately placed.

Apple Maps: 3 Times More Likely to Get You Lost Than Google

Incorrect listings:








Test methodology: 


> To test how Maps stacks up against Google's (and Bing's) offerings, the online workforce company CrowdFlower picked a random 1,000 business listings in the U.S., and another 100 in the U.K. For each listing, the company was looking for two things: whether you could find it on each of the three mapping services, and if so, whether the results were accurate


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 20, 2012)

Their conclusion was a little more forgiving than simply labelling Apple's maps as "pretty shit". 



> Still, CrowdFlower lead product manager Lukas Bergstrom gives Apple Maps a pass for now. "Local data is hard," he says. "Small businesses are closing and starting up all the time. And Apple is just getting into this game. We'll be very interested to see how their data improves over time."


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Their conclusion was a little more forgiving than simply labelling Apple's maps as "pretty shit".


If that study is accurate then they are pretty shit though, regardless of any excuses about them "only getting into the game."


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 20, 2012)

I hope they don't give up polishing that turd in surrender to google because as a punter I'd like the idea of more choice.

Oddly enough I still prefer paper maps when it comes to areas I'm unfamiliar with - a grand expanse where your explorer eye can wonder beyond your immediate location/search.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I hope they don't give up polishing that turd in surrender to google because as a punter I'd like the idea of more choice.
> 
> Oddly enough I still prefer paper maps when it comes to areas I'm unfamiliar with - a grand expanse where your explorer eye can wonder beyond your immediate location/search.


Nothing beats a good paper OS map!


----------



## elbows (Dec 20, 2012)

Except I can never work out how to refold paper maps in the right way. And I love overhead satellite etc images.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Their conclusion was a little more forgiving than simply labelling Apple's maps as "pretty shit".


 
Surprisingly fair really, given Google has thousands of people working on maps and a decade head start it makes sense that nothing Apple offer can live up to it. Give it another five years and maybe we'll see a different story. In the mean time consumers have a great many choices than before. A good thing imo.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (Dec 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> In the mean time consumers have a great many choices than before. A good thing imo.


 
Currently, nothing has changed.  If you want a map that actually works your choice is Nokia/Bing or Google.  In a few years Apple Maps might be worth using, but since upgrading to 6 I've tried it 4 times and it was bloody awful for each destination.


----------



## editor (Dec 21, 2012)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Currently, nothing has changed. If you want a map that actually works your choice is Nokia/Bing or Google. In a few years Apple Maps might be worth using, but since upgrading to 6 I've tried it 4 times and it was bloody awful for each destination.


Thing is that in a few years, Google will most likely still be three years ahead of whatever Apple is coming up with and it's going to get harder for Apple to catch up if less and less people are using their map app.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 28, 2012)

Interesting to see that its not such a terrible product in the US as the UK where its utterly useless.

I would give Apple maps some credit for the driving instructions which are very nicely presented. Long as you know the post code of where you're going. 

Not a patch on CoPilot Live Premium though.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2012)

I've been using Google Maps and Apple Maps turn by turn navigation the last week while on some long drives and have to say Apple wins hands down so far. Not only is the screen better for driving it also doesn't stutter and glitch the way Google's offering does. If you do a lot of driving, and don't want to pay out for over priced maps then Apple Maps is a very good alternative ime.


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## Sunray (Dec 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've been using Google Maps and Apple Maps turn by turn navigation the last week while on some long drives and have to say Apple wins hands down so far. Not only is the screen better for driving it also doesn't stutter and glitch the way Google's offering does. If you do a lot of driving, and don't want to pay out for over priced maps then Apple Maps is a very good alternative ime.


 
Co-Pilot Live Premium is only 15 quid and that comes with a years free traffic which has been very useful this summer.


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## mrs quoad (Dec 30, 2012)

Attempted to use both last week to navigate between my parents' house and a branch of our (Cambridge) gym that's near them in Surrey. And then from the gym to my aunt's place in Brighton.

Google Maps refused to provide directions (would only identify where we were) and identified that we were somehow hammering along at 90 degrees to the road (i.e., driving sideways. We weren't.)

Apple's offering actually worked which, tbh, was a nice start. I also later discovered that once screen locked (and blacked out), it'd continue to flash up messages about upcoming turns. Which was nice, in turns of shutting the thing the fuck up, and saving battery life, and getting updates. It, erm, seemed well integrated. And functional. And pressing the home button kept it screen locked, but with a dynamic GPS / directional / navigational map visible underneath.

Having said that, once we reached Old Woking, it took us down a dead end, and we had to revert to Google Maps to find out where the gym actually was. (In a new development behind the dead end - Apple Maps clearly hasn't got the local data necessary for that bit...)

So, they kinda worked together. But we would've been fucked if we'd been relying on either one alone.

(I'll also probably continue to use the Apple version for most GPS things - if only because of the integration / screen lock thing.)


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2012)

I also found the Gnav screen a bit cluttered, Apple's is much cleaner and easier to see while driving. Ironic because in normal map mode Gmaps looks nicer...


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## joustmaster (Dec 30, 2012)

this thread title is still making me laugh


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## editor (Dec 30, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> this thread title is still making me laugh


The triumphant exclamation mark at the end is surely the icing on the fail cake.


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## editor (Dec 30, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Having said that, once we reached Old Woking, it took us down a dead end, and we had to revert to Google Maps to find out where the gym actually was. (In a new development behind the dead end - Apple Maps clearly hasn't got the local data necessary for that bit...)
> 
> So, they kinda worked together. But we would've been fucked if we'd been relying on either one alone.


Have to say that I've found Google Maps navigation to be absolutely brilliant (on Android) and the offline access is particularly useful.


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## pesh (Dec 30, 2012)

editor said:


> Have to say that I've found Google Maps navigation to be absolutely brilliant (on Android) and the offline access is particularly useful.


we used the Google maps navigation a couple of weeks back to get up to a village outside Leeds somewhere and it was brilliant, very impressed, although it did suffer the stuttering and glitching to the point of having to restart the app 2 or 3 times on each trip. i was wondering if it might have been down to loss of network connection so i'm interested to try the offline access feature.
although as far as i can tell they've limited it to single city areas? max of about 50Mb download? seems a bit daft considering most people have massive amounts of storage these days.


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## mrs quoad (Dec 30, 2012)

editor said:


> Have to say that I've found Google Maps navigation to be absolutely brilliant (on Android) and the offline access is particularly useful.


Yeah. The future FIL asked yesterday if my iPhone could do navigation in the midst of the French alps... not without an internet connection *or* a pre-downloaded map...


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## editor (Dec 30, 2012)

pesh said:


> we used the Google maps navigation a couple of weeks back to get up to a village outside Leeds somewhere and it was brilliant, very impressed, although it did suffer the stuttering and glitching to the point of having to restart the app 2 or 3 times on each trip. i was wondering if it might have been down to loss of network connection so i'm interested to try the offline access feature.
> although as far as i can tell they've limited it to single city areas? max of about 50Mb download? seems a bit daft considering most people have massive amounts of storage these days.


You can download up 6 maps, and each map can cover a pretty big area. This article says that one map can be big enough to cover "the entirety of San Francisco or Manhattan."


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## pesh (Dec 30, 2012)

yeah, it's a very cool feature, but i don't understand why they're limiting it so massively. a 10 mile radius for a sat nav isn't ideal, you're more likely to run out of map before you run out of 3G... and as i said, storage isn't the problem.


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## editor (Jan 2, 2013)

pesh said:


> yeah, it's a very cool feature, but i don't understand why they're limiting it so massively. a 10 mile radius for a sat nav isn't ideal, you're more likely to run out of map before you run out of 3G... and as i said, storage isn't the problem.


It's not limited to a 10 mile radius.


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## pesh (Jan 2, 2013)

editor said:


> It's not limited to a 10 mile radius.


from your link...



> Google will download local copies of the map tiles within a 10 mile radius of that venue. Which means that you can easily download the entirety of SF or Manhattan in a single tap


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## editor (Jan 2, 2013)

pesh said:


> from your link...


And I also said, "You can download up 6 maps...."

So that's 60 miles fully covered. If they were embarking on a longer journey, I imagine people wouldn't need street by street coverage for all the bits in-between.


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## Cid (Jan 2, 2013)

60 mile radius, so 120 miles.


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## Cid (Jan 2, 2013)

Does the Apple app have all the same features as the Android?


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## peterkro (Jan 2, 2013)

Cid said:


> 60 mile radius, so 120 miles.


I'm by no means a mathametician but I think it's more complicated than that.

What I mean is you'd have over lapping portions, with six ten mile radii it's difficult to fit them together.


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## Cid (Jan 2, 2013)

The tiles are presumably square, you're getting 10 miles around a venue - so a 20x20 square. That's effectively a 120x20 tile if you have 6 maps. At least going on that info.


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## peterkro (Jan 2, 2013)

It's not a ten mile radius then is it.I apologise if I'm being an arse I'm having an early Janurary piss up,as you do.


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## editor (Jan 3, 2013)

Here's how big one tile can be - and it's covering the entire Greater London area and far beyond. If I downloaded six similarly sized chunks, I'd have an awfully large area covered.

Unless I'm travelling through vast area of the UK that mysteriously has no mobile coverage whatsoever or any wi-fi available anywhere, I'd easily be able to top up the bits inbetween on a very long journey.


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## pesh (Jan 3, 2013)

thats a fair old size, and like i said, it's a great feature, but from my experience of using the navigation on a 200 mile journey the only times the system ever stuttered, juddered and then shit itself was a short while after it had lost the 3G connection, normally in the middle of nowhere, just as you were wondering when the next turn off was coming up.

for all i know it might have been the app to blame, the phone, the GPS or whatever but with a 64Gb card in a 16Gb phone i'd rather just download the entire UK map and have a go with that and see how it gets on.

is there even a way for Google to make more money by limiting the size of the downloadable map? maybe an agreement with service providers somewhere in the world?


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## bi0boy (Jan 22, 2013)

Meanwhile in Apple land they still have cities in the wrong place


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## editor (Jan 22, 2013)

Well, they did at least get the fact that Blackpool is on the coast right. Luton looks to be in a nicer place now


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## mrs quoad (Jan 22, 2013)

Oh, god 

I've just checked that and, yep.

It's *also* got Luton and Blackpool in the right places. But, erm. God only knows what's going on there


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## elbows (Jan 22, 2013)

I've figured it out.

There are actually places with those names in those locations, but they are tiny. So whats happening is their 'prominence' data is getting messed up by the fact there are much larger places with those names elsewhere, and they are too stupid to figure it out.

What tipped me off to this is that there is a Preston to the east of Canterbury which is also suffering the same problem.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2013)

Had a weird experience the other day, was trying to get to Bedford and it wasn't on Google Maps, Apple maps had it in the right place. Was all a bit  actually double checked I didn't have the apps mixed up.


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## editor (Jan 22, 2013)

Best tech forum thread title ever. Still.


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## editor (Jan 22, 2013)

elbows said:


> I've figured it out.
> 
> There are actually places with those names in those locations, but they are tiny. So whats happening is their 'prominence' data is getting messed up by the fact there are much larger places with those names elsewhere, and they are too stupid to figure it out.


And some. There's two Blackpools in Devon and they're both tiny hamlets.

PS Bedford appears on my Google maps, right where it's supposed to be.


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## elbows (Jan 22, 2013)

Apple maps also has a thing for the Watford that gives its name to the Watford gap, thinks its an important place that should be shown from rather a long way away.


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## elbows (Jan 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Best tech forum thread title ever. Still.


 
Winning.


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## elbows (Jan 22, 2013)

If I zoom in and out a lot I can get it to do some inconsistent stuff. Sometimes it thinks its more important to show Neath than Swansea.

Because the map can be rotated I can let place names do battle for importance. That Luton in Devon is considered more important than Swansea.


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## Sunray (Jan 22, 2013)

Let it die.


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## Sunray (Jan 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Here's how big one tile can be - and it's covering the entire Greater London area and far beyond. If I downloaded six similarly sized chunks, I'd have an awfully large area covered.
> 
> Unless I'm travelling through vast area of the UK that mysteriously has no mobile coverage whatsoever or any wi-fi available anywhere, I'd easily be able to top up the bits inbetween on a very long journey.
> 
> View attachment 27092



This is because the map data, like Apples is all stored and transmitted in vector format these days, storing all the points that make a map is a trivial task and huge sections can be sent at very little cost in memory or bandwidth. This isn't the issue as a sat nav it works but use a proper sat nav and it suddenly seems a bit thread bare.


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## editor (Jan 22, 2013)

Sunray said:


> This is because the map data, like Apples is all stored and transmitted in vector format these days, storing all the points that make a map is a trivial task and huge sections can be sent at very little cost in memory or bandwidth. This isn't the issue as a sat nav it works but use a proper sat nav and it suddenly seems a bit thread bare.


Have you used the Android sat nav?


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## Sunray (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes it's not a patch compared to my copilot sat nav app.

For starters,  the computer generated voice is pretty annoying, copilot uses real actors voices. Doesn't offer to reroute me round traffic or let me add a detour to a poi of my choice or show me lane guides, auto switch to night mode, blah blah. 

It might in the future but copilot is only 15 quid.


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## editor (Jan 22, 2013)

Looks like you haven't used it for some time: Google Navigation has had autoswitching night mode for over a year and traffic rerouting for nearly two years.


> One thing I love about Google Maps' navigation is that it takes into account current traffic conditions when it recommends a route. Of course, if you're not satisfied with your current route, you can always change it midway (it usually offers a few different choices), or you can simply veer off course and have the app reroute you automatically.
> http://reviews.cnet.com/software/google-maps-android/4505-3513_7-35454676.html


Oh and you can change the voice too if it bothers you, although that involves downloading an app.

So, not bad for free.


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## Sunray (Jan 24, 2013)

Here is the list of CoPilot set of features and remember it does not need a data connection.

http://www.copilotlive.com/uk/personal/iphone.asp

Android will get you there, but CoPilot is far superior IMO.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Let it die.


 
Heh why, the idiots clearly are having so much fun on the title, written a month before release based on the original link, alone! Small things pleasing small minds and all that.


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## Sunray (Jan 25, 2013)

I wasn't talking about the thread, I was referring to Apple maps.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2013)

Sunray said:


> I wasn't talking about the thread, I was referring to Apple maps.


 
Fair enough but the idiots that keep making the same boring posts are pretty much making the thread futile.


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## Winot (Jan 26, 2013)

.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2013)

Winot said:


> What happened to cutting out the personal attacks?
> 
> (I'll edit this if you edit yours)


You should be addressing that to KE who disappointingly started up again in post #620.  If he cares to remove it, I'll be happy to remove the subsequent responses.


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## Winot (Jan 26, 2013)

editor said:


> You should be addressing that to KE who disappointingly started up again in post #620.  If he cares to remove it, I'll be happy to remove the subsequent responses.



Ditto then.


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## Elvis Parsley (Jan 26, 2013)

a lot of threads in here could be improved with less of KE's shit stirring and Ed's comebacks, but i can't see anything changing any time soon.

shame really, there's some great threads and really useful info in the tech forums, but wading through this sort of shit is tiring


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## editor (Jan 26, 2013)

Elvis Parsley said:


> a lot of threads in here could be improved with less of KE's shit stirring and Ed's comebacks, but i can't see anything changing any time soon.


I've removed my post.


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## editor (Jan 28, 2013)

We just need KE to edit the two posts (#620 and #622) where he declares posters here to be "idiots" and all will be well


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## Elvis Parsley (Jan 28, 2013)

editor said:


> We just need KE to edit the two posts (#620 and #622) where he declares posters here to be "idiots" and all will be well


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## editor (Jan 29, 2013)

Apple Maps keeps on giving. Say hello to My Butt!


> ...we feel a little bad pointing out yet another error in Apple Maps — but this is one we just couldn't resist.
> In the middle of San Francisco's infamous Tenderloin District, near the corner of Eddy and Taylor, Apple Maps will direct you to a restaurant apparently called "My Butt."
> The best part: users have noticed, and four of them have leftYelp reviews of My Butt.


 






http://mashable.com/2013/01/28/apple-maps-my-butt/


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 29, 2013)

Elvis Parsley said:


> a lot of threads in here could be improved with less of KE's shit stirring and Ed's comebacks, but i can't see anything changing any time soon.
> 
> shame really, there's some great threads and really useful info in the tech forums, but wading through this sort of shit is tiring


 
It's just an opinion if people don't like they can fuck off tbh.


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## elbows (Jan 29, 2013)

Spoken like an obnoxious child who'd rather ruin a forum than back down or upgrade to human decency 1.0.


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## Elvis Parsley (Jan 29, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's just an opinion if people don't like they can fuck off tbh.


christ you're an immature little prick


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## elbows (Jan 29, 2013)

Not that I help with the way I respond to him.


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## elbows (Jul 17, 2013)

The official Google maps iOS app is finally optimised for the iPad as of the update that came out yesterday


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## editor (Sep 26, 2013)

Apple Maps hasn't finished giving.



> *Apple Maps Is So Bad It Will Tell You To Drive Across An Airport Runway*
> Calling Apple maps a "navigation tool" is a serious misuse of the term.
> 
> 
> ...





> At least two motorists crossed the main runway at Fairbanks International Airport, which is used by 737s and other large aircraft, in recent weeks.
> Angie Spear, marketing director for the airport, told the Alaska Dispatch newspaper: “No matter what the signs say the map on their iPhone told them to proceed this way."
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...rects-drivers-onto-Alaska-airport-runway.html


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## souljacker (Sep 26, 2013)

editor said:


> Apple Maps hasn't finished giving.



The drivers in this story are pretty fucking dense, to be fair. 

Mind you I can't remember ever having used Apple Maps. I use Chrome on my iPhone and that always takes me to Google Maps and I copy and paste any postcodes of places I need to go directly into the Google Now search thingy.


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## peterkro (Sep 26, 2013)

Not that this isn't a major fuck up by Apple it doesn't excuse the Torygraphs reporting, the motorists went on a taxiway and not "At least two motorists crossed the main runway ...."

Actually it's me that's wrong here,the maps app didn't direct the motorists to cross the runway but these two apparently did anyway.

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/artic...app-directs-fairbanks-drivers-airport-taxiway


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 26, 2013)

They sure were busy buying up a lot of 3rd party mapping companies' data prior to launching there maps. Looks like more than a fair amount of it was shoddy.


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## Bungle73 (Sep 26, 2013)

souljacker said:


> The drivers in this story are pretty fucking dense, to be fair.
> 
> Mind you I can't remember ever having used Apple Maps. I use Chrome on my iPhone and that always takes me to Google Maps and I copy and paste any postcodes of places I need to go directly into the Google Now search thingy.


Why don't you use the Google Maps app?


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## souljacker (Sep 26, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Why don't you use the Google Maps app?



I do. Chrome takes me there when I do a search as does the google search app.


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## Bungle73 (Sep 26, 2013)

souljacker said:


> I do. Chrome takes me there when I do a search as does the google search app.


I thought you meant you  were using Google Maps in a browser.


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## gosub (Sep 30, 2013)

looks like google maps is going down the isometric route too


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

Google maps on iPhone is really buggy compared to what it used to be like, still beaten by Apple's on sat nav too. But wins hands down on important things like landmarks or being able to see where the hell the local train station is!


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## editor (Oct 15, 2013)

"Just turn left from Ilfracombe and drive across the sea"

http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

I've done plenty of comparison tests over the last year driving and Apple wins hands down on this key feature. Googles maps look nicer, load a little faster but it's buggy and the sat nav can't keep up with the actual position of the car...


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## gosub (Oct 15, 2013)

Didn't think goggle maps beta had been available for a year


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## gosub (Oct 15, 2013)

Thought the person only ferry to lundy was from Barnstaple


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## ChrisD (Oct 15, 2013)

gosub said:


> Thought the person only ferry to lundy was from Barnstaple


Bideford (or Ilfracombe).  Bideford is missed off map whilst Northam (tiny place) gets highlighted.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2013)

Did the Apple maps vs Google Maps car drive navigation test again yesterday. Apple Maps won yet again. 

Now have a dual solution of using Google for looking at places/store view while house hunting and Apple Maps for driving...sigh...


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## editor (Nov 3, 2013)

Here's a rather more impartial assessment:


> If the past four pages have given the impression of a head-to-head between Apple and Nokia at times, that’s simply because the other two gave a much smoother ride.
> 
> TomTom proved (for the most part) every bit as reliable as you’d hope for £40, and Google Maps Navigation – while lacking useful tools such as lane assistance – has such good mapping and database credentials that it’s a great choice for the more casual driver.
> 
> ...


And here: 





> The tight integration with Mavericks will probably be enough to win reluctant Mac users across to Apple Maps, but otherwise satisfied Google Maps users will probably stay put.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/smartphone-apps/apple-maps-v-google-maps-20131031-2whxo.html


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## editor (Nov 3, 2013)

And a review just posted: 


> With desktop search, Google organized the online world for users. With Google Maps, the search giant is organizing the physical world in a way that’s informed and immediate. Apple’s year-old Maps is the company’s most unreliable and disappointing product. Despite the other advances the iOS 7 brought to its mobile devices, the upgrade fails to create a Maps product that delivers on the brand’s reputation for excellence and detail.
> http://skift.com/2013/09/18/google-maps-vs-apple-maps-in-the-new-ios-7/#1


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## mauvais (Nov 8, 2013)

At least Google have been kind enough to significantly lower the standard with their crappy revamped maps that are actually much worse than the 'classic' product.


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