# London Bridge rail redevelopment thunders on



## editor (Apr 17, 2011)

Blimey. There's some mighty engineering work going on with this project! I guess they're going to slide over the metal arch soon (or has it already happened? These were taken last week).

More: http://www.urban75.org/blog/london-bridge-rail-redevelopment-charges-across-borough-market/


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## cybertect (Apr 17, 2011)

The bridge is scheduled to be shunted into place over Borough High Street during the bank holiday weekend from April 30th.

http://www.betterbankside.co.uk/news/development-news/1587-borough-viaduct-thameslink-programme

a few pics by yours truly




Piggyback by cybertect, on Flickr




Thameslink 2000 by cybertect, on Flickr




Thameslink 2000 by cybertect, on Flickr




STOP works by cybertect, on Flickr




Railway Approach by cybertect, on Flickr


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## littlebabyjesus (Apr 17, 2011)

Hope it works. LB is a fuck-up at peak times at the moment. Always queues.


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## London_Calling (Apr 18, 2011)

The whole Blackfriars/Bankside part of the project is friggin enourmous as well. But even so, it's all small potatos  compared to the daddy going east to west . . . Mental infrastructure investments . . .


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## Crispy (Apr 18, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Hope it works. LB is a fuck-up at peak times at the moment. Always queues.


 
At the moment, there are 6 through lines coming into the station from the East, with a platform each, but only 4 lines heading out on the West. Two of those lines go to Canon Street and the other 2 go to Thameslink and Charing Cross. If you look at the area on  this map, you can see that the south side of the Canon Street junction has only two lines, but has to serve 4 lines Westwards (2x Charing Cross, 2x Thameslink). This new viaduct adds 2 more tracks to this section, removing the bottleneck and matching the input and output capacities of London Bridge station.


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## Crispy (Apr 18, 2011)

Here's an excellent article on the design and construction of the new viaduct: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=76154071&postcount=125

The article also corrects an error in my previous post - the new bridge won't actually be connected to the station until it is rebuilt in 2012-13-14...15....... however long it takes


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## davesgcr (Apr 18, 2011)

the number of trains into and out of Charing Cross and Cannon St , is theoretically over the planning guidelines now - (but they squeeze them in anyway , due to the low speed and the fact that virtually everything runs on yellow signals , not green) 

It always impresses me , the procession of trains into and through London Bridge - and the features of the timetable planning go back to 1916 ! - so this new bit of bridgework , and the associated painful track renewals / remodelling will really make a difference (along with the new double ended Blackfriars station)


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## bromley (Apr 20, 2011)

Now this is interesting! Currently it takes me as long to travel from Charring Cross to London Bridge as it does to go from London Bridge to Lewisham, this will make a massive difference to the South-East. The engineering involved in this project is something else, the line goes around offices and house, this will take it to a new level! Also as part of Thameslink 2000 (!!) they will remove the bridge on St John's Vale in order to get a new line in, god knows how they will achieve that.

I love bridges!!


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## davesgcr (Apr 20, 2011)

Google British Transport films "Operation London Bridge" for a 1970'sh view on the difficulties of runnig trains through this area - the basics havent changed about gettign 24 trains an hour through a 2 track section from Metropolitan Jct / Borough Market to Cannon St / Charing Cross and London Bridge.

Nothing changes bar the number of people ....


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## golightly (Apr 20, 2011)

I don't like the new bridge.  I don't think it's design is very sympathetic to the area.  It's too bland and modern, and that part of London Bridge is all 18th and 19th C brick and cast iron.


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## davesgcr (Apr 20, 2011)

Agreed its a modern bridge - but it will fit it in eventually and become part of the steetscape - dont think the Victorians really worried too much abiout the impact on the 19thC viaducts (maybe they should have) - and buildoing a brick bridge in keeping would be a tad difficult today ....


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## hipipol (Apr 21, 2011)

golightly said:


> I don't like the new bridge.  I don't think it's design is very sympathetic to the area.  It's too bland and modern, and that part of London Bridge is all 18th and 19th C brick and cast iron.



If you look at it closely you find that the part over the market for eample may have conrcete supports but the track bed lies on a pretty much exact copy of the Victorian bridge it sits beside

I had a long and careful at it during the week


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2011)

New images have been released of the station redevelopment plan. This is the post 2012 works for a new concourse under the tracks. The previous scheme was very ambitious and included a large office block. Budget cuts mean we'll be getting a much simpler design, but no less capacity and circulation improvements (which is what the project is all about)

Looking down on Tooley Street:





The new concourse runs all the way through under the tracks, in the location of the 'bump' in the roofs.

St. Thomas Street entrance:





Looking back along St.Thomas Street:





Note that the Victorian roof and walls are coming off (a casualty of extending three of the terminating lines into through lines - they run at a higher level and different alignment and would leave the roof without support)


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## bromley (Apr 21, 2011)

The new bridge is a lot better looking than the one next to it. Dull Bridge.


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2011)

bromley said:


> The new bridge is a lot better looking than the one next to it. Dull Bridge.


 
It's a massive improvement


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## temper_tantrum (Apr 21, 2011)

bromley said:


> The new bridge is a lot better looking than the one next to it. Dull Bridge.


 
Nah, that bridge just needs a bit of good graff to spice it up a bit.


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## bromley (Apr 21, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Note that the Victorian roof and walls are coming off (a casualty of extending three of the terminating lines into through lines - they run at a higher level and different alignment and would leave the roof without support)


Can you find any picture of the new lines from London Bridge? Surely adding a further 3 lines will negate the efforts of the 2 additional lines that this bridge offers?

Fuck me, what a geeky reply!


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2011)

Here's the new lines (red) overlayed





(note that this is the old, expensive, design. the new one has broadly the same approach, but doesn't change the shape of the station footprint)

The station suffers from a lack of through platforms _and_ a lack of through lines. It needs both. The current design has 2 platforms for each destination (Charing X, Thameslink, Canon St.). The new one will have 3 for each (I'm guessing 1 for each direction and one reversible depending on the time of day)


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## London_Calling (Apr 21, 2011)

IIRC, the East London (Overground) Line was intended (among other things) to relieve London Bridge of around 10% of its throughput, anyone know what capacity increase the new design adds to London Bridge?


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2011)

There's no simple way to express the increase in capacity. It's a 50% increase in throughput (4 -> 6 tracks and 6->9 platforms), but there's also trackwork downstream that better segregates services in terms of destination so eg. a Thameslink train doesn't have to cross on the flat in front of a waiting Canon Street train. Similarly, the rebuilding of Blackfriars will prevent terminating trains holding up Thameslink trains. The whole area is improving in many ways.

The ELL shares track with London Bridge trains further South, but I don't know if any LB trains were sacrificed in the timetable to allow that.


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## London_Calling (Apr 21, 2011)

Actually, I expressed that badly. The ELL was supposed to siphon off (redirect) around 10% of LB's passengers.

I see what you mean, it's a whole re-engineered system with very different ambitions.


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## Crispy (Apr 21, 2011)

When the ELL is extended to Clapham Junction, the SLL loop trains to Victoria wiol no longer call, freeing up some terminating space.

The ELL's London Bridge relief comes from people going to Canary Wharf by changing onto the Jubilee at Canada Water instead. I haven't seen any figures for this, so have no idea how well it's working.


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## davesgcr (Apr 21, 2011)

The ELL workings have made a very significant change to LB commuting flows .- no figures available yet , but the trains are standing room only from as far out as Norwood Junction. 

Course , repressed demand means that the space released will be filled with London and the SE rail traffic up by 4% ish compound growth each month !!!


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## cybertect (Apr 21, 2011)

Crispy said:


> New images have been released of the station redevelopment plan. This is the post 2012 works for a new concourse under the tracks. The previous scheme was very ambitious and included a large office block. Budget cuts mean we'll be getting a much simpler design, but no less capacity and circulation improvements (which is what the project is all about)



Very encouraging.

Shame we're losing the wedge-shaped South Eastern Railway offices on Tooley Street by the look of it, but I think that's a significant improvement on the previous scheme. That roof looks quite elegant (and a lot better than an office over the top of the centre station).

On a personal note, with the new entrance on Tooley Street, it'll knock at least five minutes off my journey to work.


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## lang rabbie (Apr 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


>


 
How do such daft graphics (generated by a paint programme from wire-frame drawings???) get signed off.  

The viaduct isn't uniform stock brick - and more importantly the arches would not stand up if the bricks continued marching across to the edge of the opening as shown there. 

Those arches have very distinctive polychrome brickwork - red, black and white - that was the house style of London Brighton & South Coast Railway.


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## Crispy (Apr 26, 2011)

I am modeling similarly complex brickwork right now, and it's not simple or easy. Given the reduced budget for the project, I doubt they fancied paying the extra £££ for spot-on renders. Planners will happily sign off a less than completely accurate drawing so long as the specification is accurate, so it's a safe bet that the actual construction drawings represent reality.


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## lang rabbie (Apr 26, 2011)

Piloti's 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 feature in today's Private Eye has a bit about the polychrome brickwork.  The part of the viaduct that doesn't form part of the trainshed -further east along St Thomas Street and Crucifix Lane - is not listed and Bermondset Village Action Group are fighting to get it protected.   


Am I a conspiraloon for wondering if Network Rail don't want to draw attention to it.

Pictures of Crucifix Lane polychrome brickwork on Bermondsey Boy site


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## London_Calling (Apr 27, 2011)

Man, I love this board sometimes . . .


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## Crispy (May 3, 2011)

The new bridge is in place!
Good writeup here: http://londonist.com/2011/05/in-pictures-new-thameslink-railway-bridge.php


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## TopCat (May 3, 2011)

Will they replace the utterly vile and disgusting toilets on platform 5? In fact just get rid of platform 5 altogether.


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## Crispy (May 3, 2011)

Yep, all will change - above, at, and below platform level. But not just yet.


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## TopCat (May 3, 2011)

It's something to look forward to.


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## cybertect (May 3, 2011)

I took some pics this lunch time




Borough High Street Bridge by cybertect, on Flickr




Borough High Street Bridge by cybertect, on Flickr




Borough High Street Bridge by cybertect, on Flickr


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## davesgcr (May 4, 2011)

Superb photos


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## Mitre10 (May 5, 2011)

Enjoy:


[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/NetworkRailMedia#p/u/0/Xk2g8RIBr1U[/video]


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## cybertect (May 5, 2011)

Ta dave 

Here's a couple of other detail shots I took yesterday. It's a cool structure.




Borough High Street Bridge by cybertect, on Flickr




Borough High Street Bridge by cybertect, on Flickr


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## Crispy (May 5, 2011)

Top marks to the welders on this one


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## cybertect (May 5, 2011)

Yeah, I was thinking that when I took the pic. Very tidy.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 6, 2011)

Great photos cyber.

There was a big 2 page article on the reevelopment in The Standard this evening


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## davesgcr (May 6, 2011)

The great thing is the contemporary feel, yet in the middle of the odd 19thC environment , and to be fair , the bridge was slid in with not much disruption to the train service ! 

The 1990s plan had the Beehive pub and the Market Porter demolished , - both can now survive and keep trading - really good British can do engineering !


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## Crispy (May 6, 2011)

This sort of careful engineering on sensitive sites is something we do well in this country IMO. There's a lot wrong with our construction industry, but this sort of thing is done right


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 7, 2011)

The Standard article also said Guys was going to be reclad.  So what's it going to look like then?


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## newbie (May 7, 2011)

Mitre10 said:


> Enjoy:
> 
> 
> [video]http://www.youtube.com/user/NetworkRailMedia#p/u/0/Xk2g8RIBr1U[/video]


 
irritating video.  It could have been so good but it kept jumping in time and space, so the continuity was lost.  There's enough room on Youtube for each of the half dozen or so camera angles to have a minute each and show the whole process, start to finish, without editing.


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## lang rabbie (May 7, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The Standard article also said Guys was going to be reclad.  So what's it going to look like then?


 
Remarkably like it does at the moment but not as grubby.  

Penoyre & Prassad designs in Architects Journal


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## TitanSound (May 7, 2011)

Subscriber only content


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 7, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> Remarkably like it does at the moment but not as grubby.
> 
> Penoyre & Prassad designs in Architects Journal


 
oh, shit then


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## cybertect (May 7, 2011)

Try here

http://planningonline.southwarksites.com/planningonline2/DocsOnline/Documents/144422_1.pdf

It's a PDF, and unaccountably at 90° to the way you want to read it, but there are some renders on the last few pages.

And a bit more info on skyscrapercity.com's thread about Guys


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Try here
> 
> http://planningonline.southwarksites.com/planningonline2/DocsOnline/Documents/144422_1.pdf
> 
> ...



I was looking at Skyscraper City the other day and came across you


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## cybertect (May 7, 2011)

ooer missus


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## Minnie_the_Minx (May 7, 2011)

cybertect said:


> ooer missus


 
I wondered if it was the same cybertect as on here, but it was obvious it was you.

I was going to log in and say hello but didn't want you to think I was following you


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## cybertect (May 17, 2011)

Network Rail have a stand on the concourse at London Bridge this week to launch the consultation on the station redevelopment.

I dropped by this morning and had a quick chat. Turns out the architect is Nicholas Grimshaw, which is encouraging given his track record with railways stations (pardon the pun). The new design is a vast improvement on the TP Bennett scheme with an office over the middle of the station. I think it's quite elegant.

They've a page on the Network Rail site, which has some of the images and consultation leaflet, which is pretty much the same information they had on the walls of the stand.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/12182.aspx

Seems the arches along St Thomas Street are to be rebuilt and the renders reflect the choice of plain brickwork, not polychrome. However, I was told that would be the kind of thing they'd be seeking feedback on during the consultation. I offered my opinion that the choice of brick was important to the character of the arches - if you're going to rebuild them in plain, it kind of misses the point.

They've adapted one of the Piano renders for The Shard and dropped the new Grimshaw design onto the station.

A few pics.


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## London_Calling (May 17, 2011)

Good stuff as ever, Rob.

"Work expected to be completed by 2018" - according to Wiki.

"Our plans will make space for around two-thirds more passengers" - not the most helpful of explanations 

15 platforms though . . . nice.


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## cybertect (May 17, 2011)

Oh, and the South Eastern Railway offices on Tooley Street [where the Britain at War museum is] are definitely going to make way for the new through track alignment.

Pity, it's probably the best railway building associated with the current station.


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## Garek (May 17, 2011)

May I heartily recommend watching Operation London Bridge. Made in 1975 it details the complexities and problems that the 1970's rebuild and redesign aimed to fix. Very interesting stuff.


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## lang rabbie (May 17, 2011)

Garek said:


> May I heartily recommend watching Operation London Bridge. Made in 1975 it details the complexities and problems that the 1970's rebuild and redesign aimed to fix. Very interesting stuff.


 
It is certainly a useful corrective to the view that all Victorian railway stations were a pleasure to use.  Even John Betjeman and his photographer John gay couldn't find much of real interest in the bits that subsequently went in the 70s in their 1972(?) book London's Historic Railways Stations.   However, what is still standing of the LB&SCR station does have merit.




			
				cybertect said:
			
		

> Seems the arches along St Thomas Street are to be rebuilt and the renders reflect the choice of plain brickwork, not polychrome. However, I was told that would be the kind of thing they'd be seeking feedback on during the consultation. I offered my opinion that the choice of brick was important to the character of the arches - if you're going to rebuild them in plain, it kind of misses the point.



They cannot be serious!


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## lang rabbie (May 17, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Oh, and the South Eastern Railway offices on Tooley Street [where the Britain at War museum is] are definitely going to make way for the new through track alignment.
> 
> Pity, it's probably the best railway building associated with the current station.


 
This seems even more of a dubious proposition, as the new alignment of the tracks appears to be south of the current platform line, not to the north and encroachin on the Tooley Street buildings.   As I recall it, the earlier TP Bennetts scheme needed the space occupied by the old South Eastern Railway office buildings for lifts/fire stairs into their ugly as sin new office building above the tracks that was supposed to pay for a large chunk of the project. 

I do wonder if Network Rail are playing a long game, and would be coming back in a few years for a Grimshaw designed office block to span the deliberately low station platform structures.


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## cybertect (May 18, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> I do wonder if Network Rail are playing a long game, and would be coming back in a few years for a Grimshaw designed office block to span the deliberately low station platform structures.


 
That thought had crossed my mind too.


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## Garek (May 18, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> It is certainly a useful corrective to the view that all Victorian railway stations were a pleasure to use.  Even John Betjeman and his photographer John gay couldn't find much of real interest in the bits that subsequently went in the 70s in their 1972(?) book London's Historic Railways Stations.   However, what is still standing of the LB&SCR station does have merit.




What is terrifying is that there is archive footage of the outside of Euston when it first opened. It looks, well, nice. Really good in fact. Clean, modern. Very different to the reality. Think there are now plans to rebuild that one to.


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## Crispy (May 18, 2011)

Garek said:


> What is terrifying is that there is archive footage of the outside of Euston when it first opened. It looks, well, nice. Really good in fact. Clean, modern. Very different to the reality. Think there are now plans to rebuild that one to.


 
It'll be the terminus of High Speed 2, so will be massively rebuilt and expanded


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## Garek (May 18, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It'll be the terminus of High Speed 2, so will be massively rebuilt and expanded


 
Well that's good. I have never understood Euston station. They create this large open plan area to make the station feel bright, modern and airy, but then to get to the platforms you have to go down low ceilinged, narrow corridor. Same with the ticket office which is tucked away to the side and is very cramped feeling. It's an appalling design.


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## ska invita (May 21, 2011)

So it sounds like theyre pulling down the victorian-style steel building that goes over platforms 9-15. Im not against this in principle but Im surprised its not listed or somesuch. Its a nice building - just the corrugate roof could do with a clean.


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## lang rabbie (May 22, 2011)

ska invita said:


> So it sounds like theyre pulling down the victorian-style steel building that goes over platforms 9-15. Im not against this in principle but Im surprised its not listed or somesuch. Its a nice building - just the corrugate roof could do with a clean.


 
It *is* listed grade II.  In theory, as part of the conditions of having got consent to demolish it for the Thameslink works Network Rail need to find a new home for it.  

IIRC Somone suggested reconstructing it at Crystal Palace station over the ELL terminus platforms.   I don't know if the bits would fit there or not.


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## ska invita (May 23, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> It *is* listed grade II.  In theory, as part of the conditions of having got consent to demolish it for the Thameslink works Network Rail need to find a new home for it.
> 
> IIRC Somone suggested reconstructing it at Crystal Palace station over the ELL terminus platforms.   I don't know if the bits would fit there or not.



Cant believe theyre going to move it somewhere else. its not just a bunch of pillars and girders - there are walls there too. either keep it or knock it down, but to move it is just pointless

Crystal Palace station is already great - a lovely station. The ELL jsut stops in the main building in my experience. There is this bit thats uncovered





I dont think thats ELL, jsut normal trains, but its too small for the London Bridge shed.

EDIT:
This is the main bit where the ELL comes in




I could have sworn it was covered - I guess not.

yeah...I guess it could work... might clash a bit with the original.


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## ska invita (Feb 20, 2012)

If anyone is passing through London Bridge at the mo, I recommend going to the cab rank outside platform 9-16 - they're just putting some new doors in there at the moment. On one wall there's a massive hoarding covering a wall with this painting blown up on it





Must be about 20 meters wide, 8 meters high or so - it looks really amazing


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## Dan U (Feb 21, 2012)

will go and check that out. the station has really opened out and is nice and light now the coverings are off the windows.

also, for anyone travelling through LB tomorrow morning, they are doing an 'experiment' in the rush hour to test how it will cope at the Olympics..

i'm not commuting tomorrow that way so will not get to be penned in outside the fucking tube when they shut the gates like they did (again) this morning due to a faulty escalator!


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## lang rabbie (Feb 21, 2012)

More about the Canaletto on the SE1 website - it is covering a temporary wall that remains in place during the pause in work between the completion of the Shard concourse and new bus station and the main station redevelopppment.


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## flypanam (Feb 22, 2012)

Dan U said:


> will go and check that out. the station has really opened out and is nice and light now the coverings are off the windows.
> 
> also, for anyone travelling through LB tomorrow morning, they are doing an 'experiment' in the rush hour to test how it will cope at the Olympics..
> 
> i'm not commuting tomorrow that way so will not get to be penned in outside the fucking tube when they shut the gates like they did (again) this morning due to a faulty escalator!


 
Was a nightmare this morning. To get to the train platforms from the Jubilee line i had to exit onto the street (tooley I think) walk round and up the ramp to enter via the main entrance at the bus station, all the while those going for the Jubilee had to do the opposite. As i didn't know it was happening I missed my train to work. Fourth time late this month.


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## ska invita (Feb 22, 2012)

lang rabbie said:


> More about the Canaletto on the SE1 website - it is covering a temporary wall that remains in place during the pause in work between the completion of the Shard concourse and new bus station and the main station redevelopppment.





> *Not only is it one of the images on which Renzo Piano drew inspiration for his designs for the Shard... *


rant alert! This sticks in my throat. I did an art GCSE, and I know how it works - you have to show your prep, and usually this gets tacked on at the end. I doubt it was inspiration, more likely sales patter to the council as part of the pitch to get it approved... 'massive steel and glass phalus?..no no no...it'll be like a Canaletto painting...the spires of the City...blah blah blah

The fact is London at that time of the painting had a beautiful sky-line and the style across Londons buildings was coherent. Personally I hate London skyscrapers as much as I hate the work the goes on inside them. Canary Wharf was bad enough, I'd be happy to see the whole lot knocked down. But we are where we are, so Ive just stopped myself from grumbling, and made my peace with the lot of them. In that respect the Shard is looking pretty good...but Id still rather get rid of the lot. The architect is Italian, and i doubt he'd be allowed to build this kind of crap in Venice, whether it was inspired by a Canaletto painting or not.


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## hipipol (Feb 22, 2012)

If Piano had actually been inspired by Canaletto I doubt he was have designed the vile glass spike that is rearing its loathesome shape abobe ALL of London
This is not Dubai, ie not a shitty litlle priate creek on the edge of a desert, and this Spike of Shite is like some cheapo Ratner Lite, a crap Wankovski "Jewwwweeeelllll" not a fucking diamond.
A Sovreign Ring of a building, it would be better placed in Ilford

Oh yeah, we've a few years hiatus in the Thameslink stuff while this alter to Bling is finished, so years more horror for anyone who has to use what I think is currnetly the UK busieast station


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## Crispy (Feb 22, 2012)

The shard has nothing to do with the thameslink programme timetable


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## ska invita (Feb 22, 2012)

(((Ilford)))


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## Crispy (Oct 31, 2012)

Here's an excellent video that explains the layout and design of the new station. Scaffolding has starting going up on this now, so expect Travel Chaos for the next 5 years.


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## lang rabbie (Oct 31, 2012)

Network Rail propaganda said:
			
		

> historic quadripartite vaults renovated


 
Makes it sound more like the Undercroft of Durham Cathedral rather than the place that I used to pick up my over-priced deli stuff when in a hurry!

It will be interesting to find out just what proportion of that "Western Arcade" ends up being replica brickwork because the original has been so damaged by works done for the Jubilee Line.


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## cybertect (Nov 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Scaffolding has starting going up on this now



It certainly has




Now *that's* a scaffold by cybertect, on Flickr




St Thomas Street by cybertect, on Flickr




Weston Street Twilight by cybertect, on Flickr


I've been posting a bunch of progress pics at skyscrapercity.com

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=320395&page=15


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## Crispy (Nov 1, 2012)

And, as I said over there, that brickwork is going to look lovely after a good clean


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## _pH_ (Nov 1, 2012)

cybertect said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=320395&page=15


 
Those portacabins you thought might be a ticket office are soon to be temporary traincrew accommodation (at least in part). The current mess room and booking-on point are above where the Body Shop, M&S etc. have just closed, in the block which is apparently first to come down. About time too.


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## _pH_ (Nov 3, 2012)

_pH_ said:


> Those portacabins you thought might be a ticket office are soon to be temporary traincrew accommodation (at least in part). The current mess room and booking-on point are above where the Body Shop, M&S etc. have just closed, in the block which is apparently first to come down. About time too.


 
I had a look at the plans yesterday, and the train crew accommodation seems to be on the first floor, so it's possible a temporary ticket office might go on the ground floor. Though if the ground floor footprint is the same as the first floor, there's not a huge amount of room.


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## scanner (Nov 5, 2012)

Slightly off topic, but on the mainline from New Cross to London Bridge just about as you pass the big waste disposal plant a new rail line passes under the track. It seems to have an unusual rail configuration and is not yet in use. Does anyone have any info on this? Also the huge piles of rubbish between & below the mainline tracks have been cleared for some reason.


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## 19sixtysix (Nov 5, 2012)

scanner said:


> Slightly off topic, but on the mainline from New Cross to London Bridge just about as you pass the big waste disposal plant a new rail line passes under the track. It seems to have an unusual rail configuration and is not yet in use. Does anyone have any info on this? Also the huge piles of rubbish between & below the mainline tracks have been cleared for some reason.


 
That's the East london line extention to clapham.


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## scanner (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks for that Sixty!


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## bromley (Nov 5, 2012)

scanner said:


> Slightly off topic, but on the mainline from New Cross to London Bridge just about as you pass the big waste disposal plant a new rail line passes under the track. It seems to have an unusual rail configuration and is not yet in use. Does anyone have any info on this? Also the huge piles of rubbish between & below the mainline tracks have been cleared for some reason.


The big pile of rubbish is still there, I think they're playing on Saturday.

I'm pretty sure I saw a train go down there on a test journey? The Clapham side isn't complete though.


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## _pH_ (Nov 5, 2012)

bromley said:


> I'm pretty sure I saw a train go down there on a test journey? The Clapham side isn't complete though.


 
LOROL are route learning at the moment, including the turn back on the Atlantic line platform at Battersea Park (there's been a unit there at around 10pm most evenings recently). The Clapham side is complete in that there was no work to do apart from platform work at Clapham Jct - they're running over the existing road from Wandsworth Rd to Factory Jct to Longhedge Jct, under the Brighton and Bournemouth main lines to Ludgate Jct and into Clapham Jct. (the Latchmere curve was doubled but that's for going up to the West London Line)

edit: Come to think of it maybe there is a new spur gone in as when I drove that, we had to reverse at Latchmere no 2 to get to platform 1 at Clapham editedit: just looked at the old route map, you might be right. It was a reversal at Latchmere No2, so there must be a new spur.

The 'new bit' under Bricklayer's Arms Jct isn't really new either - the 'new' up and down Silwood (from Old Kent Road Jct just north of Queen's Road Peckham to Silwood Jct north of New Cross/New Cross Gate) is on the alignment of the old line that closed in the early 20th century. The up side turnback north of New Cross Gate is being lengthened at the moment too.


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## _pH_ (Nov 6, 2012)

Well I asked another driver who signs over there and he said 'you can get straight in via the Ludgate which saves you 20 minutes and gives you time for coffee and a fag, but the signaller always makes you do the shunt and go in over the Latchmere curve. The cunt'.

This was 0445 this morning though and he was still half asleep. But I think he meant that the Ludgate lines have always gone into Clapham Jct. so presumably LOROL are using them.

This is the wrong thread for this anyway.


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## cybertect (Nov 6, 2012)

_pH_ said:


> I had a look at the plans yesterday, and the train crew accommodation seems to be on the first floor, so it's possible a temporary ticket office might go on the ground floor. Though if the ground floor footprint is the same as the first floor, there's not a huge amount of room.


 

I was basing my assumption on a report on Better Bankside's page on the redevelopment of LBG when they said the temporary ticket office was being placed on the concourse over a weekend a couple of weeks ago - that cabin had appeared the following Monday.

Having a look around the thing, I agree, it doesn't look large or accessible enough for a public ticket office. [shrug]

BB are now reporting "The new interim ticket office in now in position and will open on 22 November 2012" so I guess we'll find out then.


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## _pH_ (Nov 6, 2012)

The latest update newsletter thing I read at London Bridge this morning said 'the interim ticket office and drivers' accomodation will open in late November.' So yes, looks like it's both.


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## cybertect (Nov 22, 2012)

Things are looking perhaps a little clearer...

The new cabins have received some secondary cladding and there's a canopy structure going up - I wonder if that's going to house the public-access part of the ticket office.


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## bromley (Nov 23, 2012)

You're missing the real excitement by Tanner's Hill!


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## hipipol (Nov 25, 2012)

bromley said:


> You're missing the real excitement by Tanner's Hill!


Yep houses with huge cracks it, natives up in arms etc
If they were going to put people thru all this crap a rethink of the massive bottleneck that is Lewisham should have been part of it - the new down slope simply connects to the "temporary" alignement of the re-routed LCDR to Greenwich Park line that was supposed to have sorted back in the 1920s/30s
Though it removes some of the probs of two way running across the bridge, its still a flat junction that then leads to another flat junction!!


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## cybertect (Nov 29, 2012)

The new ticket office opened this morning


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## cybertect (Dec 13, 2012)

Demolition of another section of the 70s station canopy under way yesterday




London Bridge Station Demolition by cybertect, on Flickr


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## Crispy (Dec 13, 2012)

Good Riddance!


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## hipipol (Dec 14, 2012)

Crispy said:


> And, as I said over there, that brickwork is going to look lovely after a good clean


Yet another sandblasting twattery - fucking awful
Let us see what history has deposited
Patina, Patina, Patina, meaning NOT a fucking Yankee DISNEY twat pastiche


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## lang rabbie (Dec 15, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Good Riddance!


 


(((unloved 1970s spaceframes)))


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## Dan U (May 1, 2013)

Network Rail took back control of the nightclub Cable today in rather dramatic fashion, cutting there way in

https://www.facebook.com/cableofficial?group_id=0



> Dear World,
> 
> It is with a huge amount of sadness that we announce Cable has closed with immediate effect.
> 
> ...


 
Don't know the background to it to comment either way on the legalities of this, but shame to see yet another venue gone.


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## ska invita (May 2, 2013)

Does anyone know what is happening to the "shed"? It was suggested that it was listed and had to be rebuilt somewhere else (possibly Crystal Palace). Didnt look like a partiuclarly careful job the way they cut up the supporting pillars and generally knocked the brickwork down


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## Crispy (May 2, 2013)

The brickwork is gone for good. The shed is in storage, awaiting a buyer/site. Various heritage railways have expressed an interest. It's the wrong size for crystal place, I checked.


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## Dan U (May 2, 2013)

Yeah noticed that brickwork had gone earlier this week


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## RedDragon (May 4, 2013)

Dan U said:


> Don't know the background to it to comment either way on the legalities of this, but shame to see yet another venue gone.


Here's a video of the sad event.


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## Chz (May 4, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Here's a video of the sad event.


Oh boo-fucking-hoo. They've known about it for years and every other business has already been shut there. If they were dismayed by anything, they've got to be some of the biggest idiots going.


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## blossie33 (May 4, 2013)

Chz said:


> Oh boo-fucking-hoo. They've known about it for years and every other business has already been shut there. If they were dismayed by anything, they've got to be some of the biggest idiots going.




I've not been to Cable and I sympathise with them having to close in  that way but I would be interested to know what was in  their lease. I wouldn't have thought Railtrack could have obtained a warrant and taken possession that way unless they had a right to do so?


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## ska invita (May 5, 2013)

Chz said:


> Oh boo-fucking-hoo. They've known about it for years and every other business has already been shut there. If they were dismayed by anything, they've got to be some of the biggest idiots going.


did you watch the video? They say they were told they wouldnt be affected - cable only opened a few years ago, by which time the plans wouldve been well established. When Network Rail bods are asked about that on camera they refuse to answer.
No idea what happened but it does sound like Network Rail went back on their word and then forced a closure on them late in the day. Its not unreasonable to think that the management wouldnt have put all that financial investment in if they knew it was just for a limited time...maybe they would, either way it sounds like they were fucked about.


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## ska invita (May 5, 2013)

blossie33 said:


> I've not been to Cable and I sympathise with them having to close in that way but I would be interested to know what was in their lease. I wouldn't have thought Railtrack could have obtained a warrant and taken possession that way unless they had a right to do so?


i dont know but when a big project like the olympics or whatnot is happening things seem to happen at different speeds it seems to me


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## Chz (May 5, 2013)

ska invita said:


> did you watch the video? They say they were told they wouldnt be affected - cable only opened a few years ago, by which time the plans wouldve been well established. When Network Rail bods are asked about that on camera they refuse to answer.
> No idea what happened but it does sound like Network Rail went back on their word and then forced a closure on them late in the day. Its not unreasonable to think that the management wouldnt have put all that financial investment in if they knew it was just for a limited time...maybe they would, either way it sounds like they were fucked about.


I did, and while whoever told them they wouldn't be affected (a single person responsible, I'll bet) has a lot to answer for, the fact is that any cursory reading of the plans shows that *any* business under the arches had a very high likelihood of being asked to get out. If they had a leg to stand on, the lawyers would be all over it. Every other business that's been moved out had warning well in excess of statutory requirements.

It's difficult to tell if they're idiots or just trying to get some media coverage for their new location sure to open in the next month.


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## ska invita (May 5, 2013)

they're a fair way from the station tbh...which makes me think it was a last minute space grab for unforseen needs
...and i do share your scepticism a bit - a successful club like this is a gold mine and no club lasts for ever anyway, and lots of owners are rich types anyway purely in it for even more money...but who knows for sure what the deal is here.


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## Dan U (May 7, 2013)

just as an aside really they have had some licensing issues as well. seems quite a few of the locals had enough of the 24 hour license and the problems that came with daytime raving in a venue close to where people live.

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/forum/read/1/169315/page=1
http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=172&MId=4621&Ver=4

suspect Network Rail have done a few people a favour in a roundabout way.


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## TitanSound (May 7, 2013)

My rehearsal studio is just off Bermondsey street (towards the Borough end), and I've seen some sights walking past Cable from LB station. My favorite, was a gentleman who had obviously over indulged the K.

I half felt like I should direct him to a safe place but he may of thought I was a dragon.


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## DJWrongspeed (May 7, 2013)

Dan U said:


> http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=172&MId=4621&Ver=4


This makes for fascinating reading.  I don't know if the level of trouble is that unusual. Could there have been collusion between NR and Southwark Council ?
That video is annoying as Cable never explain why it led to such a dramatic possession order.


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## Dan U (May 7, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> This makes for fascinating reading. I don't know if the level of trouble is that unusual. Could there have been collusion between NR and Southwark Council ?
> That video is annoying as Cable never explain why it led to such a dramatic possession order.


 
yeah it does, doesn't it. tbh i think a lot of the locals complaints are due to the 24 hour license. most clubs are packed away by the time people get up and as long as their isn't much noise disturbance during the night, a lot of people are none the wiser.

having been to Sunday daytime clubs like Sunny Side Up back in the 90s, i can imagine it would wear a bit thin each Sunday if it was right on your doorstep and not very well managed - as it appeared it wasn't always.

i reckon the police stuff is fairly standard for anywhere open that amount of time with that many people going through the doors on drugs/drunk etc each weekend. might be wrong though of course!

and agree re: the video. it is hard to get a sense of what has led to this, the only clue really in that video is the well spoken bloke with the beard from Cable having a pop at the NR guys for not discussing things with him.


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## DJWrongspeed (May 7, 2013)

Reading the supporting docs on the licence review there were 51 articulate objections from folks around Bermondsey St, I wonder if it actually got it's licence renewed?  Sounds fairly wild on sat/sunday am.  With the station redevelopment at least that it is day time disruption for residents.


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## Dan U (May 7, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Reading the supporting docs on the licence review there were 51 articulate objections from folks around Bermondsey St, I wonder if it actually got it's licence renewed? Sounds fairly wild on sat/sunday am. With the station redevelopment at least that it is day time disruption for residents.


 
it was amended, think they took the daytime license away and imposed various other conditions.

it wasn't actually a renewal as such, but a hearing due to the complaints from residents and police.


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## DJWrongspeed (May 8, 2013)

> The important aspect of this which nobody has mentioned yet is that the Cable Club premises were entered by Network Rail under the terms of a compulsory purchase order ("CPO"). This is made clear by the notices on the outside of the premises. The process for obtaining and enforcing a CPO are lengthy and where contested usually involve a public inquiry. It is likely that Cable will have known for a long time that this was coming. (In fact their own website refers to 2 years of legal battles). This is not a sudden move but one which was known about years ago. It also tends to explain why there have been recent problems with the venue. They knew they were on the way out so relaxed their management of their clientele in order to make as much money as they could before they were forced to close. Good riddance in my view.


 
From a  poster on the SE1 forum, another interpretation


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## Dan U (May 8, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> From a poster on the SE1 forum, another interpretation


 
they are applying for a judicial review according to DJ Mag.

you kinda think they wouldn't waste the barristers fees unless they truly felt they had a chance. although that is as much about process leading to the outcome, rather than the actual outcome, if that makes sense.


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## Cloo (May 9, 2013)

I heard the other day from a bloke from Tfl speaking at an event that London Bridge would, at some point in the works, have to shut completely - dunno if he meant overground only or all of it, but that'll be a bit  for a lot of people. He was talking about 'controlling demand' as they did by warning everyone off the tube during the Olympics, and saying that they had strategies in place to divert people from LB.


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## Crispy (May 9, 2013)

That doesn't sound right. They'll be closing the main line platforms and rebuilding them one by one, but on a rolling programme so there will only be a few out of action at a time. Lots more thameslink trains will go via Elephant & Castle instead, to make up for it.


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## cybertect (May 18, 2013)

Platforms 14, 15 and 16 will be closed from Sunday, according to tannoy announcements in the last few days.


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## Crispy (May 18, 2013)

Yep. They're going to start demolishing arches on the bank holiday.


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## _pH_ (May 18, 2013)

The Network Rail offices just beyond the stops on 14/15/16 have already gone, that was quick.

I am looking forward to seeing whether London Bridge box continue their long tradition of routing trains into the wrong platform. Should be interesting.


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## Crispy (May 31, 2013)

Part of the old station roof has found a new home:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-22706442

The Vale of Rheidol Railway is going to use about a third of the old columns and roof vault to build a museum for their collection of narrow guage trains in Aberystwyth.
editor


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## _pH_ (May 31, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Part of the old station roof has found a new home


 
That's good news. Big hoarding along platform 13 now, and all the trackwork into 14/15/16 removed. Not everything going so well though - the planned West Croydon to South Bermondsey service (which would normally run to London Bridge) on Monday had to be terminated short at Tulse Hill because half the crossover that was due to be installed to allow turnback wasn't.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jun 1, 2013)

I use london bridge sporadically - does this mean no trains for the time being between tulse hill and LB?


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## _pH_ (Jun 1, 2013)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I use london bridge sporadically - does this mean no trains for the time being between tulse hill and LB?



They're still running, it was just last weekend when no Southern services were running to/from Londom Bridge that the West Croydons were terminating short at Tulse Hill (or South Bermondsey, except that didn't happen). 

But if they do stop running them, I will nick a unit off the depot and run a train especially for you.


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## Miss-Shelf (Jun 1, 2013)

_pH_ said:


> They're still running, it was just last weekend when no Southern services were running to/from Londom Bridge that the West Croydons were terminating short at Tulse Hill (or South Bermondsey, except that didn't happen).
> 
> But if they do stop running them, I will nick a unit off the depot and run a train especially for you.


 
thanks mate


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## _pH_ (Jun 2, 2013)

A new set of buffer stops at the end of the truncated line that used to go into 14/15/16. That's a bit scary heading for them at 20mph when you can't quite see if the points are set for the diverging route.


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## cybertect (Feb 14, 2014)

Photo update: parts of the new structure have become visible on St Thomas Street as the upper hoardings have been taken down.




New London Bridge Station by cybertect, on Flickr

Ticket machines and concrete barriers next to the temporary ticket office




Tickets, please by cybertect, on Flickr

Apparently this Wolff 700B crane is the first of its type in the UK, capable of lifting 50 tonnes. Two more are scheduled to join it as the project progresses.




St Thomas Street by cybertect, on Flickr




Schwing by cybertect, on Flickr


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## cybertect (Feb 15, 2014)

A couple of extra pics from along St Thomas Street




New London Bridge Station by cybertect, on Flickr




New London Bridge Station by cybertect, on Flickr


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## editor (Jan 2, 2015)

Timelapse footage of London Bridge Christmas works (20-27 December 2014)


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## ska invita (Feb 10, 2015)

Brilliant film from the 1975 redevelopment of London Bridge - nostalgia ahoy


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## Crispy (May 28, 2015)

They're ploughing on with this. Some really impressive engineering. Logistics too - so much to coordinate.




P5212154 by Geogregor*, on Flickr




P5212153 by Geogregor*, on Flickr




P5212151 by Geogregor*, on Flickr




P5212147 by Geogregor*, on Flickr




P5212146 by Geogregor*, on Flickr




P5212143 by Geogregor*, on Flickr




P5212140 by Geogregor*, on Flickr




P5212139 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## hot air baboon (May 28, 2015)

...the Shard's already sinking isn't it...?  

( mind you it'll probably be a while before it disappears entirely below ground level )


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## davesgcr (May 28, 2015)

The relatively good news is that the amended timetables into the Southern bit of the station is working well . They did an excellent job over the last weekend...


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