# Amazon event, new Kindles: Kindle Paperwhite, Kindle Fire, price drop etc



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2012)

Amazon has dropped the price on their bottom range Kindle. Also launched two new ones Kindle Paperwhite and Kindle Paperwhite 3G. 

Live blog: http://live.theverge.com/amazon-kindle-fire-paperwhite-reader-event-live/


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## mrs quoad (Sep 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazon has dropped the price on their bottom range Kindle.


In what sense / as of when?

Artichoke is interested in one, but Amazon (uk) is still listing them at unchanged prices


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2012)

It's down to less than 70 dollars. No UK pricing yet. Have to say this launch is kicking all kinds of ass, Amazon have just declared war on all tablet makers. Good times!


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## elbows (Sep 6, 2012)

Very aggressive with the kindle fire tablets on pretty much every front.

Put a lot of effort into seriously bumping a variety of spec in order to get rid of image that their tablets are underpowered in some ways. Trying to get some spec ahead of the competition so they can shout about it being the best - in this case wifi. Can also shout about the stereo speakers.

Kicking Google with price & the burying of 8GB storage as being nowhere near enough anymore.

Kicking Apple over total cost of ownership including data plans. Able to compete more directly with iPad 3 by offering an 8.9" version with a high enough res (1920x1200).

As usual with Amazon my excitement is tempered by their extremely US-centric focus, and internationally this will leave their competitors some room to breathe. But its not a fun day to be in some of their competitors shoes. Microsoft better hope there is meaningful interest in having a tablet that runs windows, and their decisions over Surface pricing must be painful. If Google had their time all over again I bet they wish they'd thought of a rule that could have prevented android being used by Amazon in this way. As for Apple, they've got some decent competition for larger tablets now but without knowing the reality of their 'iPad mini' plans I cant comment on the whole picture.


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## elbows (Sep 6, 2012)

Competitors hopes tonight rest with peoples kids influencing tablet buying decision 



> "It's called Kindle FreeTime." Lets you set time limits for your kids, for different kinds of content — 30 minutes of games, hours of reading, and the like. Set per kid, too.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2012)

elbows said:


> Very aggressive with the kindle fire tablets on pretty much every front.
> 
> Put a lot of effort into seriously bumping a variety of spec in order to get rid of image that their tablets are underpowered in some ways. Trying to get some spec ahead of the competition so they can shout about it being the best - in this case wifi. Can also shout about the stereo speakers.
> 
> ...



Yep their lack of overseas selling is a huge issue if they're serious about competing. Still it's an impressive array of products to launch in one go. The tablet market really is great at the moment for consumers with Apple, Amazon and Microsoft all kicking off!


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 6, 2012)

Reading the whole thing from that link up there, holy shit. That is some impressive stuff, it really is.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 6, 2012)

Kindle Fire HD specs seem to kick the Nexus right into touch.


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## Firky (Sep 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's down to less than 70 dollars. No UK pricing yet. Have to say this launch is kicking all kinds of ass, Amazon have just declared war on all tablet makers. Good times!


 
(((books)))


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> Kindle Fire HD specs seem to kick the Nexus right into touch.



Twice the storage too. Nexus isn't looking half as good as it was a few weeks ago..


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## stuff_it (Sep 7, 2012)

firky said:


> (((books)))


(((storage space)))


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> Kindle Fire HD specs seem to kick the Nexus right into touch.


Except it's a weird bastardisation of Android that only runs a fraction of the available apps, and hands the advantage straight back to the Nexus - and, of course, the iPad, despite the price difference.





> *Apps*
> It's hard to compete with Apple's App Store.
> 
> There are more than 225,000 apps designed specifically for the iPad. Many work to take advantage of its display and screen size. Add the more than a half-million apps that run on mobile devices and you've got a lot from which to choose.
> ...


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## elbows (Sep 7, 2012)

Jellybean & the quad core processor of the Nexus 7 also help Google's offering to stay in this fight. Several brief hands-on articles about the smaller of the new kindle fire tablets mention lag still being an issue, and that in this respect the new amazon offerings dont fare well when compared to the nexus 7.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Except it's a weird bastardisation of Android that only runs a fraction of the available apps, and hands the advantage straight back to the Nexus - and, of course, the iPad, despite the price difference.


 
But is your average consumer even going to care - they know and trust the Amazon and Kindle brands.


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## souljacker (Sep 7, 2012)

None of this matters to us in the UK if you can't buy it. Whatever happened to the fire in this country?

Google need to start pushing the Nexus as it's the only one of these new generation of tablets that we can actually buy!


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> But is your average consumer even going to care - they know and trust the Amazon and Kindle brands.



This is key, the original Kindle Fire sold five million in the US alone despite there being better tablets on the market. The Kindle is very strong amongst average consumers from what I can see...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

souljacker said:


> None of this matters to us in the UK if you can't buy it. Whatever happened to the fire in this country?
> 
> Google need to start pushing the Nexus as it's the only one of these new generation of tablets that we can actually buy!



It's available for Pre-order, coming end of October to the UK.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2012)

Ta


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## stuff_it (Sep 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's available for Pre-order, coming end of October to the UK.


11 hours of battery life in the HD model....oooo. 

Shame I won't be getting one any time soon.


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## BoxRoom (Sep 7, 2012)

Looks like it's running ICS "under the hood" as it were. Signs look unlikely for a swift upgrade.
Still, I am rather impressed with the Fire HD. Will be a tough choice between this and the Nexus 7 should I ever have any money to buy one.
http://www.slashgear.com/amazon-confirms-kindle-fire-hd-is-running-ice-cream-sandwich-06246426/


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## Structaural (Sep 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazon has dropped the price on their bottom range Kindle. Also launched two new ones Kindle Paperwhite and Kindle Paperwhite 3G.
> 
> Live blog: http://live.theverge.com/amazon-kindle-fire-paperwhite-reader-event-live/


 
Bastards. Bring out the Paperwhite two weeks after I bought a Touch.  
Still.. best thing I've bought in years. I've barely looked at my phone, been on a two week sci-fi bender.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> But is your average consumer even going to care - they know and trust the Amazon and Kindle brands.


For sure, although I imagine some may get frustrated when they keep hearing of cool Android apps that won't run on their tablet.


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## Structaural (Sep 7, 2012)

I came very close to buying an iPad this month but couldn't really justify the price in the end (Apple's markup on NAND is well annoying). That Kindle Fire HD might be just the thing. How cheap is that?!


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## Structaural (Sep 7, 2012)

editor said:


> For sure, although I imagine some may get frustrated when they keep hearing of cool Android apps that won't run on their tablet.


 
But the Fire is the world's best selling 'Android' tablet, I'm sure developers will make specific versions for it.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

Structaural said:


> But the Fire is the world's best selling 'Android' tablet, I'm sure developers will make specific versions for it.


I'm not sure how its sales have fared recently compared to the Nexus, mind.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2012)

They're just toys, nice content consumption devices so I'm not interested.

The iPad is still the only device out there that can be used as a serious work tool for me due to the range of apps available.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Bastards. Bring out the Paperwhite two weeks after I bought a Touch.
> Still.. best thing I've bought in years. I've barely looked at my phone, been on a two week sci-fi bender.



Heh my two year old Kindle 3 (keyboard & 3G) is still going strong but I must admit that upon seeing the new one I was eyeing it up looking for any hint that it may soon fail.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm not sure how its sales have fared recently compared to the Nexus, mind.



I'd doubt the Nexus has topped 5 million sales in the short space of time it's been available.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I came very close to buying an iPad this month but couldn't really justify the price in the end (Apple's markup on NAND is well annoying). That Kindle Fire HD might be just the thing. How cheap is that?!



I know! 16 gig for £159!!!


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

And here's a BIG killer feature over the Nexus:


> Micro-HDMI (micro-D connector) port for high definition video output to televisions or A/V receivers


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They're just toys, nice content consumption devices so I'm not interested.
> 
> The iPad is still the only device out there that can be used as a serious work tool for me due to the range of apps available.



Given how cheap they are I'm not sure thats an issue. I have a Kindle which I use for consumption only (reading) and an iPad which is now a major part of my work flow. Both have their place IMO...


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They're just toys, nice content consumption devices so I'm not interested.
> 
> The iPad is still the only device out there that can be used as a serious work tool for me due to the range of apps available.


It's not being sold as a 'work tool' but as a device for playing games, browsing, watching movies, playing music and reading content. The iPad's hefty increased cost becomes pretty hard to justify if that's all you want a tablet for (and that is, I believe, what most people use them for).


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## Structaural (Sep 7, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm not sure how its sales have fared recently compared to the Nexus, mind.


 
Considering the Fire has only been sold in the States until now, they've not done bad. I can see this new device selling well as they'll give you 32GB for the price of the competitors 16GB and a higher resolution screen. They make their money on content mostly I'd have thought.

I can't do any work on a Pad, playing games, watching films and surfing the web would be the extent of it. Still I'm not much of a fan of Google and Apple gets on my tits these days. 

Think I'll spend it on a camera...


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Given how cheap they are I'm not sure thats an issue. I have a Kindle which I use for consumption only (reading) and an iPad which is now a major part of my work flow. Both have their place IMO...


I'm not knocking it, it just has zero appeal to me. There's nothing it (or the Nexus) does that I haven't already got covered with other gadgets.


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## Structaural (Sep 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh my two year old Kindle 3 (keyboard & 3G) is still going strong but I must admit that upon seeing the new one I was eyeing it up looking for any hint that it may soon fail.


 
My wife usually gets my techy hand me downs, but she bought me this for my birthday. I'd feel bad...

I spilt an entire beer on it the other day, wiped it off and carried on reading.


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## Structaural (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm not knocking it, it just has zero appeal to me. There's nothing it (or the Nexus) does that I haven't already got covered with other gadgets.


 
Are you a musician? There's nothing out there that can compete with the iPad on that score.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm not knocking it, it just has zero appeal to me. There's nothing it (or the Nexus) does that I haven't already got covered with other gadgets.


It does for me: I really really wish I could stream content off the Nexus on to my TV. That's really useful.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2012)

editor said:


> It does for me: I really really wish I could stream content off the Nexus on to my TV. That's really useful.


Yeah, can see that, but I've got a WD TV Live box for that sort of thing.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Are you a musician? There's nothing out there that can compete with the iPad on that score.


It's not just in music, nothing can beat the iPad for the sheer range of uses people have found for it. There's a huge depth to it that's still being explored, whereas stuff like the Nexus and Fire seem to be aimed squarely at the media browsing end of things.

Pay your money take your choice etc

All may change in the future of course, only time will tell


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Pay your money take your choice etc


Yes. And it's over twice as much for the iPad. Not everyone can afford that kind of money.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, can see that, but I've got a WD TV Live box for that sort of thing.


But it would be far more convenient to carry a small tablet around if you're on the move. Get to the hotel, plug it into the TV and you've got your entertainment sorted etc etc.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm not knocking it, it just has zero appeal to me. There's nothing it (or the Nexus) does that I haven't already got covered with other gadgets.



Fair enough, horses for courses as they say. I'm very happy Amazon has got its act together so well in this area, means more pressure on other companies making tablets which is great!


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## Firky (Sep 7, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, can see that, but I've got a WD TV Live box for that sort of thing.


 
I use my Nexus 7 as a remote control to my WDTV box which I stream to my TV.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

Is it this thing?
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Network-ready-Media-Player/dp/B002KKFP9Y


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

Here's some of  the Android goodies you'll miss out on if you go with the Kindle.

No widgets! No Google Maps! No Gmail! No Photoshop Touch! No fucking chance!

http://gizmodo.com/5941148/7-great-android-apps-you-cant-get-on-the-kindle-fire


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## Firky (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes, the Kindle looks good but I think the lack of Google is going to be a massive restriction.



editor said:


> Is it this thing?
> http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Network-ready-Media-Player/dp/B002KKFP9Y


 

Essentially yeah, I have the 1080p DLNA model.




> Get the best of the internet on your HD TV withthe Western Digital WDBGXT0000NBK WD TV Live! This Western Digital WDBGXT0000NBK WD TV Live mediaplayer streams videos, music and photos from your USB drive, network drive,digital camera, camcorder, desktop computer or Mac in Full HD (1080p). Wireless-N technology ensures you haveenough speed to stream HD content with no lag. You'll be spoilt for choice with the WD TV Live! Supplied with remote control


 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/WESTERN-DIG...9OCG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1347035540&sr=8-3





They're £190 on ebuyer or £100 on Amazon. Go figure.


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## maldwyn (Sep 7, 2012)

Will this force Apple to make a mini-iPad announcement along with the iPhone 5 next week or will they wait until October in the hope of dominating the headlines for the next two months.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's some of the Android goodies you'll miss out on if you go with the Kindle.
> 
> No widgets! No Google Maps! No Gmail! No Photoshop Touch! No fucking chance!
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5941148/7-great-android-apps-you-cant-get-on-the-kindle-fire


 
That's a killer isn't it. I'm thinking of getting a new Kindle to replace my old one which I broke but given that I think I'll just stick with the cheapest e-reader one rather than forking out any extra.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Will this force Apple to make a mini-iPad announcement along with the iPhone 5 next week or will they wait until October in the hope of dominating the headlines for the next two months.



I doubt they'll bring it forward, more curious whether they're feeling pressure on price tbh. These new Kindle's are seriously competitively priced!


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 7, 2012)

My mother bought me my Keyboard 3G for Christmas but damn, I love the idea of the Paperwhite. >_>

I bought a rechargeable clip on light for it, which gets an ok amount of time before it needs recharging (and is also useful for reading real books with in darker rooms too), but a light built in that has 8 weeks of battery life? Plus the benefits of the touch?

Damn.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

Vintage Paw said:


> My mother bought me my Keyboard 3G for Christmas but damn, I love the idea of the Paperwhite. >_>
> 
> I bought a rechargeable clip on light for it, which gets an ok amount of time before it needs recharging (and is also useful for reading real books with in darker rooms too), but a light built in that has 8 weeks of battery life? Plus the benefits of the touch?
> 
> Damn.



Innit. It looks very cool indeed. Just noticed they've dropped the price of the Kindle keyboard light case to 30 quid too...


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## maldwyn (Sep 7, 2012)

Vintage Paw said:


> but a light built in that has 8 weeks of battery life? Plus the benefits of the touch?Damn.


only with wifi off and half an hour's use a day. In reality more like 28 hours - not bad but not 8 weeks.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

Feature comparison:


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> only with wifi off and half an hour's use a day. In reality more like 28 hours - not bad but not 8 weeks.



Hmmm I guess but no one sits there reading for 28 hours straight! In practice with heavy reading mine lasts about two to three weeks.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah, the current lot say something like 2 months battery time, but that reduces significantly if you're sat with wi-fi enabled reading for 8 hours a day. I keep wi-fi off unless I'm transferring something, and I expect I'd turn that light off unless I needed it when it's dark. It certainly looks like it's not going to drain the battery quite like some of the cases with lights can do.

Everyone knows batteries run down. Everyone knows the more you use, the less time it will last. You just prepare for that.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah I should say I keep wifi/3G off the majority of the time too, only need it to download so no point in draining the batteru


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2012)

firky said:


> They're £190 on ebuyer or £100 on Amazon. Go figure.


The £190 version comes with a built in hard drive...


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## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

> Conflicting reports surfaced Friday as to whether the upgraded Kindle Fire and the three members of the all-new Kindle Fire HD family would have advertisement opt-out capabilities found in earlier Kindle Fires.
> 
> An Amazon spokesperson confirmed to TechRadar that none of the new models will have ad opt-out options.
> 
> ...


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## BoxRoom (Sep 8, 2012)

The buggers.
Interest levels falling.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

BoxRoom said:


> The buggers.
> Interest levels falling.



Given the confusion around this I think I'm going to wait until the devices are actually in the shops tbh.


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## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

Looks like ads are there to stay:


> *UPDATE:* In direct contradiction to its earlier statement to Engadget, Amazon now tells CNET that customers will not be able to pay to remove ads from the Kindle Fire HD's lock screen.
> 
> That means every time you switch on your Kindle Fire, you're going to see a full-screen ad for an Amazon product or service.
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

Oh right these ads are only when you turn on your device? This has been the case on some of the Kindles for the last year or so. Thought all the fuss being made was because they were intrusive popping up while you're using the device!


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## Firky (Sep 8, 2012)

Someone will write something to remove the adverts I'd imagine. Still fecking annoying, little things like that (coupled with the lack of Google services) chip away at the Kindle.


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## Structaural (Sep 8, 2012)

Vintage Paw said:


> My mother bought me my Keyboard 3G for Christmas but damn, I love the idea of the Paperwhite. >_>
> 
> I bought a rechargeable clip on light for it, which gets an ok amount of time before it needs recharging (and is also useful for reading real books with in darker rooms too), but a light built in that has 8 weeks of battery life? Plus the benefits of the touch?
> 
> Damn.





Vintage Paw said:


> My mother bought me my Keyboard 3G for Christmas but damn, I love the idea of the Paperwhite. >_>
> 
> I bought a rechargeable clip on light for it, which gets an ok amount of time before it needs recharging (and is also useful for reading real books with in darker rooms too), but a light built in that has 8 weeks of battery life? Plus the benefits of the touch?
> 
> Damn.



Damn, indeed, I only bought my Touch 3 weeks a go...still, it's excellent in this sunny weather.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

firky said:


> Someone will write something to remove the adverts I'd imagine. Still fecking annoying, little things like that (coupled with the lack of Google services) chip away at the Kindle.



I think it's a big deal for geeks but not for all consumers. Kindles of all types sell very well without Google products on them (the new Fire uses Nokia maps and Bing for search). And ads existed before and didn't stop sales.


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## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

Pretty sure some consumers won't like being forced to look at an advert every time they turn on their tablets too. The Kindle Fire HD looks less and less attractive compared to the Nexus (despite the presence of HDMI).


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## Firky (Sep 8, 2012)

The biggest thing that pulls me over to the Nexus is things like GPS, accelerometer and compass and other little gadgets such as NFC. The Nexus does have it's draw backs but not as many as the Kindle - that's not to say the Kindle is a bad tablet. I just think the Nexus is a bit better. 
I am probably biased.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 8, 2012)

Paperwhite has half the storage capacity at only 2GB, and also no audio. The majority of users are probably going to be fine with that, but there are plenty who like being able to have their audio books on the same device as their reading books (reading books ... lol, I feel like I'm back at infants school).

Paperwhite coming to the UK eventually, just not yet. Rumours have it for spring. I'm definitely holding off to see what the next updated version of it brings (which hopefully will re-integrate audio, but colour front/back covers would be great too).


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## Firky (Sep 8, 2012)

I thought you were an Apple fanboi / gurl?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

Vintage Paw said:


> Paperwhite has half the storage capacity at only 2GB, and also no audio. The majority of users are probably going to be fine with that, but there are plenty who like being able to have their audio books on the same device as their reading books (reading books ... lol, I feel like I'm back at infants school).
> 
> Paperwhite coming to the UK eventually, just not yet. Rumours have it for spring. I'm definitely holding off to see what the next updated version of it brings (which hopefully will re-integrate audio, but colour front/back covers would be great too).



The Paperwhite is deffo my next Kindle, only two gigs isn't an issue for me as I never use audiobooks (don't like them). Last night while reading was thinking a front lit screen would be very nice to have.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 8, 2012)

firky said:


> I thought you were an Apple fanboi / gurl?


 
No allegiance to any brand. I buy what piques my interest and the things I like the look of, and I use what works best for me. I use macs but I dual boot and use windows on my macbook pro (and I'm considering a cheap netbook of some sort), I've got an iPhone, I've got a kindle keyboard, and don't own a tablet of any kind (nor do I want one).


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

Vintage Paw said:


> No allegiance to any brand. I buy what piques my interest and the things I like the look of, and I use what works best for me. I use macs but I dual boot and use windows on my macbook pro (and I'm considering a cheap netbook of some sort), I've got an iPhone, I've got a kindle keyboard, and don't own a tablet of any kind (nor do I want one).



Apart from not having a tablet you have the exact same set up as me.


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## scifisam (Sep 8, 2012)

Oh. No Gmail? I was seriously considering it but without Gmail it's useless for me. Glad this thread enlightened me of this.


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## editor (Sep 9, 2012)

Amazon have backtracked again:


> "I wanted to let you know that with Kindle Fire HD there will be a special offers opt-out option for $15. We know from our Kindle reader line that customers love our special offers and very few people choose to opt out. We're happy to offer customers the choice."


http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-3126_7...r-$15-opt-out-for-ads-on-kindle-fire-tablets/


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2012)

Well that's all done and dusted then. I expect this will have zero impact in sales!


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## editor (Sep 9, 2012)

It is astonishingly cheap. £129 for a fast, powerful 7" colour tablet with 8GB RAM, or £159 for the HD version.


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## editor (Sep 9, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The £190 version comes with a built in hard drive...


Nitpicking.


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## Firky (Sep 9, 2012)

editor said:


> It is astonishingly cheap. £129 for a fast, powerful 7" colour tablet with 8GB RAM, or £159 for the HD version.


 
I was wondering if they're selling them at a loss (or at the actual unit price) in the hope to recuperate the loss through ebook / mp3 and lovefilm sales.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2012)

firky said:


> I was wondering if they're selling them at a loss (or at the actual unit price) in the hope to recuperate the loss through ebook / mp3 and lovefilm sales.



Not sure if it's a loss or break even but they've basically said they're not trying to make money of the hardware, all about profiting from the ecosystem.


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## maldwyn (Sep 9, 2012)

I think they missed a trick by not offering the cheapest reader free with a Prime subscription.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 9, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I think they missed a trick by not offering the cheapest reader free with a Prime subscription.


 
Absolutely. All those people who've looked at Prime and thought "well, it'd be damn useful, but, but, but, I don't really want to spend the money on it" then see they get a free kindle with it? Especially now the price is dropping. There'd be a flood of them on ebay shortly thereafter though


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

Wow amongst all the excitement of the new Kindle launches this is one sobering image:


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 10, 2012)

Looks like Amazon's profits are falling (granted the scale of the graph makes it difficult to see to what degree). I'd have thought it would have been the other way around, considering just how successful kindles are now, and the sale of ebooks is rising steadily, surpassing hardbacks and so on.

Maybe it just can't make up for a fall in other sales, that are more directly affected by the recession?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

Perhaps...I really thought they were doing better than this. Be interesting to see how much of a boost the new line gives their margins.


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## maldwyn (Sep 10, 2012)

At the moment Google seems the poorer cousin - Amazon and Apple have our creditcard details.


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## Firky (Sep 10, 2012)

Google are anything but poor.


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## maldwyn (Sep 11, 2012)

Obviously I'm not talking about cash poor  What we're seeing is all three giants in race to push 'consumption' devices, therefor you're at an advantage if you already have customer credit card details - Amazon already have mine, Apple (via iTunes) too - I can't think under what circumstances I'd be giving Google my account details. That may be a problem for them.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Obviously I'm not talking about cash poor  What we're seeing is all three giants in race to push 'consumption' devices, therefor you're at an advantage if you already have customer credit card details - Amazon already have mine, Apple (via iTunes) too - I can't think under what circumstances I'd be giving Google my account details. That may be a problem for them.



It's an often talked problem too, like you both Apple and Amazon have my card but I can't see how Google gets it as there's nothing the sell direct I want/need...


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## Structaural (Sep 11, 2012)

Apple make a fuckton of profit at every stage though, massive hardware markup and 30% on everything sold through their stores. Also ebooks and media are really easy to pirate. Apps on iOS are difficult to piate unless people dare to jailbreak.
Amazon are not in the business to make huge profits, they just want to be the only media store in town. Then the prices can rise (just look at the exorbitant cost of ebooks at the moment).


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 11, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Obviously I'm not talking about cash poor  What we're seeing is all three giants in race to push 'consumption' devices, therefor you're at an advantage if you already have customer credit card details - Amazon already have mine, Apple (via iTunes) too - I can't think under what circumstances I'd be giving Google my account details. That may be a problem for them.


 
They have mine for the apps store and if they can push google checkout to more places I'd use it for sure...I like sites that use Paypal so I don't have to enter my card details and all the ball ache that involves.


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## contadino (Sep 11, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Apps on iOS are difficult to piate unless people dare to jailbreak.


 
The App Store is the single biggest reason why, after 15 years of patronage, I will not buy any more Apple products. So no more hardware, software, or indirect revenue from me. Out of my circle of friends, this is an increasingly prevalent decision, so their decline in profits is no surprise...

... plus, clearly They've saturated their market and are now struggling to find new areas.


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## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

contadino said:


> The App Store is the single biggest reason why, after 15 years of patronage, I will not buy any more Apple products. So no more hardware, software, or indirect revenue from me. Out of my circle of friends, this is an increasingly prevalent decision, so their decline in profits is no surprise...
> 
> ... plus, clearly They've saturated their market and are now struggling to find new areas.


 
Although I understand various objections to the App store and Apples control freakery, I dont really understand why a backlash over this would become more prevalent as time goes by. There are other reasons why people may get fed up with iOS or Apple over time, and reasons why they might appreciate Android etc, including screen size and price of devices.

But when it comes to apps, the picture is messy. Even though Android allows installation of apps from other sources, a load of people are still using the official Google Play store to get most of their apps, even if it tends to be free ones rather than paid ones. Both platforms have plenty of decent free apps which are given away free because the companies behind them just want people to use their net services. Android does not have a very deep and rich range of paid apps, especially tablet-ones, to the extent that its stopped larger android tablets from competing well against the iPad, and I have only spent a fraction of the store voucher I got with the nexus 7. This situation has left Apple with plenty of ways to profit in the tablet space going forwards, and has given Microsoft an opportunity to do very well with Windows 8 tablets.

From a developers point of view, fears of Apple rejecting their apps is an issue, as is the apparent fact that this 'app store revolution' has not provided that many companies with really nice revenue. There are some huge success stories and quite a few people making reasonable income but its not exactly a gold rush, especially as the price of apps for these platforms is rather low. Developers like the freedom of Android, knowing their apps wont be rejected, but there are other very real downsides which has put some developers off. Device fragmentation requires additional work to be done especially for some types of apps, not enough people are buying android apps, and the piracy rates also upset and demoralise some android developers. I would not be at all surprised if a lot of developers are turning their attention from Android to Windows 8, at least those who are looking for decent revenue using the classic 'pay for the app up front' model.

I havent got an Amazon tablet so I havent been able to properly study their store, but most of the attention to date seems to have been on how Amazon can profit by selling consumers other types of content.

So where does this leave us? It certainly doesnt leave me thinking that Apple is doomed because of their app store model. And Im still searching for a proper understanding of what, in practice rather than theory, Androids different model actually gives to users in terms of software range & quality over the long-term. If I had to guess I'd say it isnt the app store issues at all in most cases, its about what the OS lets apps do in terms of device customisation, whether it be live wallpaper, widgets or alternative keyboards. Android has a huge advantage there, and combined with decent, nicely priced phone hardware its made Android a phenomenal smartphone success. But not the right sort of success to kill Apples App Store model.

Personally as both a user and developer, and despite the fact that due to lots of time spent faffing around polishing my android app I havent even published it yet and been able to see the state of android app sales for myself, my interest in the future is increasingly turning towards Windows 8 rather than android. Mostly because I am very interested in tablets that get a bit closer to laptop functionality, and whilst android tablets are great for a range of consumption, I dont see deeper creative apps emerging in reasonable quantity. Apple got some of the way to that promised land by managing to attract enough developers of this sort, but there are certain OS limitations which get in the way and I really want some strong competition to push things forwards on this front at much greater pace.


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## contadino (Sep 11, 2012)

There are several Android app stores. Getting access to them really is simple - one settings check box.

But the rub here is that I use my device for specific jobs. I don't want hundreds of apps installed. I just want a few, free ones that do the task the way I like. Take the Guardian for example. I can read their content using their website, their mobile website, using Currents, or via their own app. I prefer Currents, which is free, easy to use, and pre-installed.

It's not really my concern, as a consumer, whether I'm making life easy for developers. Part of a developers job nowadays is to make their apps easily available, and charge for them appropriately. Too expensive and I won't buy it. If I can do the job tidily using something else, I probably will. I have no brand loyalty, no marketing gullibility, no peer pressure.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

contadino said:


> But the rub here is that I use my device for specific jobs. I don't want hundreds of apps installed. I just want a few, free ones that do the task the way I like. Take the Guardian for example. I can read their content using their website, their mobile website, using Currents, or via their own app. I prefer Currents, which is free, easy to use, and pre-installed.


I use Guardian Lite which downloads the entire site in a matter of seconds for offline reading on the tube later. It's ace!


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## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

contadino said:


> There are several Android app stores. Getting access to them really is simple - one settings check box.
> 
> But the rub here is that I use my device for specific jobs. I don't want hundreds of apps installed. I just want a few, free ones that do the task the way I like. Take the Guardian for example. I can read their content using their website, their mobile website, using Currents, or via their own app. I prefer Currents, which is free, easy to use, and pre-installed.
> 
> It's not really my concern, as a consumer, whether I'm making life easy for developers. Part of a developers job nowadays is to make their apps easily available, and charge for them appropriately. Too expensive and I won't buy it. If I can do the job tidily using something else, I probably will. I have no brand loyalty, no marketing gullibility, no peer pressure.


 
I dont expect consumers to care about developers, not until it ultimately costs them in terms of certain quality software for their platform of choice not getting made.

I can appreciate why people might prefer the android OS, or some android apps in particular. But I still dont get why this thing about the app store is supposed to be more of an issue now, or which of your points actually support this notion. For example I can see the theoretical attraction in there being multiple app stores on android, but in practice what benefits has this actually had so far? And nobody is forcing you to have hundreds of apps installed on any platform. If your point is that you dont generally like paying for software, and you've had a better time getting free apps that do what you want on android than you have on iOS devices, then fine. But if its true then its not because of any bad Apple app store policies, its to do with the relative success of that store in getting people to pay for stuff. It would be shortsighted to see Androids failure to get people to buy a lot of apps as some kind of victory, it can help sell phones but it just continues a trend of monetizing users in different ways, some of them with more implications and strings that just buying the app in the first place.

There are two advantages I can think of with Androids app store situation compared to Apples. If you happen to want the sort of app that Apple dont allow, or if you want to be able to choose from a range of hardware manufacturers when upgrading without throwing away your existing collection of software. These are real advantages, although the latter one doesnt get all that much attention, probably because it would be more of an advantage to shout about if more people spent more money on android apps in the first place! Assuming that Windows Store apps will also work on multiple devices once you have paid for them, Microsoft may be very well placed to exploit this advantage going forwards.


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## contadino (Sep 11, 2012)

Multiple app stores is important for ( at least) 2 reasons. The first you've already mentioned: if you want to use your device for something that an app store disapproves of you can. The 2nd is that it introduces competition, so you get free apps on offer, prices are self-regulated, it's tougher for astrosurfers to tamper with reviews, etc..

My preference to have as few apps as possible is just me, maybe. My poorly made point was that an app would need to be stunning and unique to get me to install and pay for it.


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## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

I wasnt suggesting that there is anything wrong or unusual with your preference, I was just trying to separate your complete possition on these matters from the specific point about the App Store having turned you away from Apple. 

I can see why some some of Apple actions have created a very real bad taste in some peoples mouths. And that is reason enough for some to switch, but I was trying to explore whether there is much of substance beyond the bad taste at the moment, especially if its a problem thats growing more over time for some reason. And Im still not getting that sense, especially as the android app situation continues to underwhelm me and I really havent noticed app store choice on android making the positive differences you mention.

Whats a less-negative word for cheapskate? Because although there are some downsides to everyone wanting their apps for free, just as there are with wanting their content & services on the net for free, I'm not fundamentally opposed to the success of a platform which has a substantial userbase that doesnt want to pay for new goodies all the time. Its an interesting thing, and could be seen as a rejection of the idea of owning a device that places at its heart the perpetual consumer hooked on the razor blade or printer ink model, encourages the purchase of content on a regular basis. And that brings me back on topic for this Amazon tablet thread!


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## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm happy to support developers and pay for their apps. I didn't like Apple's way of censoring what apps were available to me and forcing me to use only one means of downloading and buying those apps, though.


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## pesh (Sep 11, 2012)

serious question, isn't jailbreaking an iphone the same as rooting an android? i.e. same negative aspects, invalidates the warranty and thats about it? 

just seems that a lot of people root their androids as a matter of course, doing the same to an iphone or ipad gets you away from the itunes app store...


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## contadino (Sep 11, 2012)

Oh, sorry. Right. The reason I hate the Apple app store is because it is principally not right for Apple to close their platform solely so that they can take a cut of license costs. In the olden days, you bought a computer, then some software to run on it. The money for the computer (plus maybe the OS) went to the computer company, and you paid the software company for the software. The Apple app store changed all that. Now Apple get a cut of every license fee paid. They have driven down developer revenues, and I think that's unfair.


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## contadino (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> serious question, isn't jailbreaking an iphone the same as rooting an android? i.e. same negative aspects, invalidates the warranty and thats about it?.


 
You don't need to root an Android device to use multiple app stores.


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## pesh (Sep 11, 2012)

nope, i realise that...

people root them to get rid of bloated firmware etc as i understand it... but basically Jailbreaking and Rooting are the same thing?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

Can you use multiple app stores on Kindle Fires?


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## Structaural (Sep 11, 2012)

Essentially yes. You're establishing yourself as the Superuser, both use a LI/UNIX variant I think.


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## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

contadino said:


> Oh, sorry. Right. The reason I hate the Apple app store is because it is principally not right for Apple to close their platform solely so that they can take a cut of license costs. In the olden days, you bought a computer, then some software to run on it. The money for the computer (plus maybe the OS) went to the computer company, and you paid the software company for the software. The Apple app store changed all that. Now Apple get a cut of every license fee paid. They have driven down developer revenues, and I think that's unfair.


 
Aha so now you care about developers  But seriously, thanks for the explanation. Its a stance we certainly heard a lot more about when Apple first announced the app store. There are reasons not to like this model, especially as the internet had just opened up the publishing and distribution channels and theoretically at least eliminated some middle men, and now here comes Apple bringing this stuff back in a new form. I think Apple got away with it because enough developers were willing to embrace the opportunity because although Apple got a cut and some control, the developers got some stuff in return - product exposure, a software delivery path that a very large percentage of users were familiar with and prepared to use (including Apple having their credit card details to enable quick impulsive purchasing). Likewise any dismay at the low price level that became established for mobile apps was more than a little offset by the new market it created - ie need to remember how small the market for mobile apps was before the iPhone. Go back even further and from a consumer and developer point of view some were willing overlook Apple being a gatekeeper because some years previous it looked like the mobile phone networks fancied themselves as the gatekeeper that would profit from selling content and apps, and they totally sucked in this role.

Anyway these issues are why I am more excited about windows 8 than android. From a developers point of view its too late to turn back the clock on app store phenomenon, and what developers can instead hope for in future is more markets that enjoy healthy software sales, and some gradual reduction in the cut the likes of Apple, Google etc take. Any advantage that having a choice of app stores on android could have in pushing this agenda is negated by the lower total sales figures. I think some devs get even more wound up by this because of the phenomenal level of android device sales, which lead to lofty expectations that are not usually matched by how many apps they are able to sell. Some will try to go with the flow and still make something out of androids large userbase by exploring other revenue models, such as free to play where many get a free lunch but you can profit repeatedly from your hardcore users. But in terms of managing to erode the 30% cut model Apple have established, Android really hasnt helped. Hence my interest in Windows 8. Microsoft are not exactly free of toxic fears from users or devs, but they are showing signs of being quite aggressive with the app store, competing with Apple over it in a way that may benefit devs. For example I think they have announced that once apps sell a certain quantity, Microsoft will take 20% rather than 30%. But For Windows RT Microsoft are pretty much copying Apples method of control over software distribution, with all the negative backlash that comes with it.


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## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> nope, i realise that...
> 
> people root them to get rid of bloated firmware etc as i understand it... but basically Jailbreaking and Rooting are the same thing?


 
The biggest difference apart from certain tedious technical variations, is in how grey/naughty/frowned upon these things are considered to be.

The extent to which Apple frown upon jailbroken iOS means that stores and apps that require jailbreaks are not going to enter the squeaky-clean mainstream. Whereas on Android rooting is not such a dirty word, to the extent that you'll find apps in Googles own store that require a rooted device for all of that apps functions to work.


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## maldwyn (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I didn't like Apple's way of censoring what apps were available to me and forcing me to use only one means of downloading and buying those apps, though.


I don't have a massive problem with their censorship, their garden their rules kind of attitude. That drone app they recently banned, well that action just seemed pointless. I would like to know how far up the management chain that decision was taken - the information supplied in the app was recycled from a uk database. I'm not convinced it was a political decision. And I had no problem with Apple banning homophobic Apps.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I don't have a massive problem with their censorship, their garden their rules kind of attitude.


How are you with them banning apps on grounds of morality? Or banning wikileaks apps? Or apps like this one?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

Amazing a thread about Amazon has descended into the same tedious 'debate' about Apple we've all seen a hundred times before, how did that happen I wonder...?


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## maldwyn (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> How are you with them banning apps on grounds of morality? Or banning wikileaks apps? Or apps like this one?


They probably did 'Phone Story' a massive favour  . I really don't lose sleep over Apple banning Apps, my iPhone plays a very small part in the way I gather information.


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## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I don't have a massive problem with their censorship, their garden their rules kind of attitude. That drone app they recently banned, well that action just seemed pointless. I would like to know how far up the management chain that decision was taken - the information supplied in the app was recycled from a uk database. I'm not convinced it was a political decision. And I had no problem with Apple banning homophobic Apps.


 
Again Im going to find it interesting to see how Microsoft tread as Windows 8 launches. I believe they have promised developers that they will be much clearer than Apple about how the app review process works, but they'l probably not be able to completely escape controversy since many of the same control and censorship issues will still exist in some form on the Windows Store.

Political censorship is the aspect of curated app stores I find most disturbing, even if in practice there are relatively few real examples so far, and they are ones that pale into insignificance compared to the full theoretical extent this issue could suck in some versions of the future.

I would be able to show a lot more passion for this subject if there was a lot more useful stuff out there that various authorities were eager the censor! Should I be thankful that censorship in countries like ours currently plays second fiddle to other technique based on apathy, distraction, hopelessness, fragmentation, emphasis, mainstream conditioning via repetition, smears and lies? Or that the brand of censorship we most often see today is of the bland corporate variety, with all its double-standards when there's a buck to be made, rather than crude state censorship? Either way given the large variations around the globe its certainly find it a bit hard to rally convincingly against this sort of corporate app censorship, despite its slippery slope potential. When there exist giant digital censorship issues affecting such large chunks of the global populace, such as the firewall of China, it makes some of the issues we face seem a bit trivial, hard to turn into a struggle that seems to have huge stakes and impending doom.

All I know is that so much of this technology has massive implications and we have to watch the nature of our states and corporations very closely. Given what Hitler managed to do with crude punchcards, there are no end of deeply horrific uses to which sophisticated IT could be put to, if the political and societal etc conditions made it desirable and possible for the powerful to go down that route. No matter how passive or 'do no evil' some corporations or governments may vaguely appear to be at a particular moment in time, when the chips are down we are probably going to have to subvert the technology we use in order to make it serve our cause not the cause of the powerful. Luckily computers are well open to being subverted, with some capable people doing it for its own sake, let alone when there is a real and pressing need to do it.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazing a thread about Amazon has descended into the same tedious 'debate' about Apple we've all seen a hundred times before, how did that happen I wonder...?


*looks back at the thread.

Well, I can see several posters bringing up interesting and related points about the comparative merits of Amazon's, Android's and Apple's app stores, and so far it's all been very polite and courteous.

As a point of fact, you were one of the first to introduce Apple into this discussion, posting up a graph showing how fabulously profitable they are and how they're making more money than everybody else.

I hope that answers your question.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> Again Im going to find it interesting to see how Microsoft tread as Windows 8 launches. I believe they have promised developers that they will be much clearer than Apple about how the app review process works, but they'l probably not be able to completely escape controversy since many of the same control and censorship issues will still exist in some form on the Windows Store.


Indeed. If they get the balance right, W8 could be massive.


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## miss direct (Sep 11, 2012)

Not v.impressed as I just bought a Kindle Touch.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

miss direct said:


> Not v.impressed as I just bought a Kindle Touch.


That's still a great device at a good price.


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## maldwyn (Sep 11, 2012)

I went to the beach in Brighton today, grabbed my kindle (because my iPad is useless in bright sunshine) and my battery was flat - note to self, I must not neglect my Kindle!


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## miss direct (Sep 11, 2012)

I know but the Kindle Fire has colour and is better for magazines..


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

miss direct said:


> Not v.impressed as I just bought a Kindle Touch.



Had a play with a colleagues today, lovely device, the screen refresh speed made my two year old 3G Kindle keyboard look positively ancient!


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I went to the beach in Brighton today, grabbed my kindle (because my iPad is useless in bright sunshine) and my battery was flat - note to self, I must not neglect my Kindle!



I've hit up against this a few times, the battery is so bloody good I've forgotten to charge it and found out while away.


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## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

miss direct said:


> I know but the Kindle Fire has colour and is better for magazines..


But not as good a battery life....


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## miss direct (Sep 11, 2012)

Yes...the battery is fantastic and I am really happy with it so far, have read loads and have got the Guardian free for two weeks.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

miss direct said:


> Yes...the battery is fantastic and I am really happy with it so far, have read loads and have got the Guardian free for two weeks.



Heh cool, yeah I used to read blogs via it while on my travels overseas.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 11, 2012)

miss direct said:


> Yes...the battery is fantastic and I am really happy with it so far, have read loads and have got the Guardian free for two weeks.


 
Calibre will download it and turn it to an ebook for you, so you can have it free as long as you want.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Calibre will download it and turn it to an ebook for you, so you can have it free as long as you want.



A second for Calibre, excellent application!


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## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

The Verge has posted up a comprehensive review on the Fire HD. Here's their conclusion:


> There are two devices in this review. The first is something like an appliance — a window through which you casually view content, a way to listen to music, an e-reader for the train ride home. On that device, things like a big app selection or elaborate user experience take a back seat to content selection, price point, and simplicity. On that device, it's not about going toe-to-toe with the competition in every way (as Amazon seems to want to do), it's about offering a lot of fun stuff to consumers, and getting them to consume more. As that device, the Fire HD is a complete success. A marvel of bottom-line engineering and incredibly clever subsidies. It's a really, really good tablet for doing some very specific things.
> 
> But there's a second tablet in the review as well. One that gets compared to the iPad and Nexus 7. One that I expect to do more than just show me movies or help me shop. One that should be a companion for all kinds of things I want to do, that doesn't feel limited, that doesn't respond to my touches slowly, that doesn't make me wait.
> 
> ...


 
By comparison, they awarded the Nexus 7 a rather better 8.8/10 (9/10 user review)
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/29/3125396/google-nexus-7-review


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## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Mashable were a bit keener:
http://mashable.com/2012/09/11/kindle-fire-hd-review


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## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

And Engadget says the Nexus 7 is still The Don:


> Even if you step up and pay the extra $15 to disable Offers on your Kindle Fire HD, you can never and will never shake the feeling that this is less a tablet and more of a tool for shopping -- a Trojan Horse that's let into your home thanks to its low price and then unleashes a legion of must-buy items to completely compromise any walls you've built around your budget.
> 
> If you can get past that decidedly subsidized feeling, you do have a compelling package in your hands. The HD is fast, has a nice design, a beautiful screen, proper stereo speakers and, of course, oodles and oodles of premium content. For casual users looking for an inexpensive yet powerful tablet, the Kindle Fire HD should absolutely be at the top of your shopping list.
> But, for those looking to do more, and do more rapidly, the Nexus 7 is still the king of this diminutive hill.


http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/11/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-review-7-inch/


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## Badgers (Oct 2, 2012)

This is a good deal: 

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/new...HukD_Community_News_10022012&utm_medium=email

New Amazon KINDLE 6" WiFi E-reader for £54 (with discounts/vouchers)


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## miss direct (Oct 2, 2012)

Wow very good. If anyone wants to buy a kindle touch today, they can have £10 off from me, let me know and I can send you the code.


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## marty21 (Oct 2, 2012)

I have ordered the Kindle Fire HD! Looking forward to trying it out - they ship them on the 25th October I think.


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## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I have ordered the Kindle Fire HD! Looking forward to trying it out - they ship them on the 25th October I think.


What made you go for that over the Nexus 7?


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## marty21 (Oct 2, 2012)

editor said:


> What made you go for that over the Nexus 7?


 Didn't really check out the nexus tbh


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## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

marty21 said:


> Didn't really check out the nexus tbh


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## marty21 (Oct 2, 2012)

editor said:


>


  I've used Android phones for a while, have a Kindle, what could possibly go wrong ?


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I have ordered the Kindle Fire HD! Looking forward to trying it out - they ship them on the 25th October I think.



Cool, look forward to hearing about how you find it.


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## marty21 (Oct 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Cool, look forward to hearing about how you find it.


will report back - I've never been an early adopter before !


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