# Creative writing courses



## Scarlette (May 24, 2012)

Does anyone have any experience of these? Is really like to do one - preferably correspondence - but have no idea where to start looking or what would be a good one.

I would be grateful if you could let me know your views and experiences.


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## Santino (May 24, 2012)

I haven't got experiences, only prejudices, which say that creative writing courses are for people who want to churn out the sort of writing that will please people who can't earn a living as a writer.


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## Scarlette (May 25, 2012)

Santino said:


> I haven't got experiences, only prejudices, which say that creative writing courses are for people who want to churn out the sort of writing that will please people who can't earn a living as a writer.



Probably true, and I think that is what I have always thought too. It's a bit of a thing you either can or can't do. I would just like to learn some discipline with respect to writing. Or just so something that forces me to have discipline.


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## Citizen66 (May 25, 2012)

You're probably better off joining writers' forums, writing some shorts and letting the other writers give constructive critisism. Or are you at complete beginner stage?


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## abe11825 (May 25, 2012)

I took a creative writing course in college. You have to be careful with these classes because they all tell you that it's a freedom of expression and it's your thought processes, but depending on how (and what) you write, you can find yourself in a legal battle (if it's taken offensively to the point school administration has to intervene).

Example is that most c.w. syllabus state that nothing is off limits. Professors will explain until they are blue in the face that because it's a creative writing course, whatever you put on paper and hand in, you won't get reprimanded. Your peers could read it and give feedback, but otherwise, do whatever. I had that type of course. The beginning of every week, 3 works were to be handed in. The following class day, those works were handed out to the class. Over the weekend (this course was Monday and Wednesday), you had to review your peers' work, give feedback (positive or negative) and it was reviewed that Monday as a group. Fair enough, yeah? Even the teacher couldn't tell us enough, that what we write, we won't be getting a failing grade on. I think I ended up with a B in that class because I disagreed with what my peers were saying most of the time. They all wrote fruity lovey dovey things, literally nicking story lines from movies and books, where I traveled a totally different path and was coming from somewhere deeper. Most of my work, they hated, but still critiqued it in a way it sounded positive.

Second example, in regards to administration stepping in: back in February, there was a Yahoo / ABC News article stating a man was currently in a legal battle with his school, due to taking a creative writing course. He asked time and again, will they get in trouble for what they write? Can they express things in a polite and positive manner (or even negative, but use the form correctly?) and the teacher said yes; no one will be frowned upon. Well, he wrote a story about his professor one day. He took some lyrics from "Hot For Teacher" and re worked them into an essay. He didn't get in trouble for nicking lyrics. He got in trouble for being a little too proactive. The professor was uncomfortable, and took it to the board. He was "kicked off campus" and I think even received an incomplete for the course.



e2a: I had written about it in my blog. Links are in it for reference / news information.


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## Scarlette (May 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> You're probably better off joining writers' forums, writing some shorts and letting the other writers give constructive critisism. Or are you at complete beginner stage?



No, not complete beginner. That sounds like a good idea. I guess I want to get to know how to get on, how to write more regularly and mainly, how to plan and write longer projects.


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## Scarlette (May 25, 2012)

abe11825 said:


> I took a creative writing course in college. You have to be careful with these classes because they all tell you that it's a freedom of expression and it's your thought processes, but depending on how (and what) you write, you can find yourself in a legal battle (if it's taken offensively to the point school administration has to intervene).
> 
> Example is that most c.w. syllabus state that nothing is off limits. Professors will explain until they are blue in the face that because it's a creative writing course, whatever you put on paper and hand in, you won't get reprimanded. Your peers could read it and give feedback, but otherwise, do whatever. I had that type of course. The beginning of every week, 3 works were to be handed in. The following class day, those works were handed out to the class. Over the weekend (this course was Monday and Wednesday), you had to review your peers' work, give feedback (positive or negative) and it was reviewed that Monday as a group. Fair enough, yeah? Even the teacher couldn't tell us enough, that what we write, we won't be getting a failing grade on. I think I ended up with a B in that class because I disagreed with what my peers were saying most of the time. They all wrote fruity lovey dovey things, literally nicking story lines from movies and books, where I traveled a totally different path and was coming from somewhere deeper. Most of my work, they hated, but still critiqued it in a way it sounded positive.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info, and I'll have a look at your blog.


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## abe11825 (May 25, 2012)

Scarlette said:


> Thanks for the info, and I'll have a look at your blog.


 
You're welcome. And the more I re read my post, I meant provocative instead of proactive, in the case of the second example, when the man got in trouble for what he wrote. 

But yeah, just keep in mind where ever you go to take these courses, the usual rule is that it's a freedom of expression and you'll get proper feedback for your writings. Under normal circumstances, you can flourish as a writer because you learn more about your style and what works best. The guy in the news was some freak occurrence. Most schools' creative writing courses are the same - do what comes naturally and whatever is written isn't set in stone, per se, but you also won't get into much trouble for it (you may get feedback saying it's a little sexual or vulgar, but if it's written well, there shouldn't be a problem).


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## Santino (May 25, 2012)

Scarlette said:


> Probably true, and I think that is what I have always thought too. It's a bit of a thing you either can or can't do. I would just like to learn some discipline with respect to writing. Or just so something that forces me to have discipline.


Oh, don't get me wrong: I think writing is something that can be learnt, I just don't think it's something that creative writing courses will teach you.


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## Santino (May 25, 2012)

abe11825 said:


> Second example, in regards to administration stepping in: back in February, there was a Yahoo / ABC News article stating a man was currently in a legal battle with his school, due to taking a creative writing course. He asked time and again, will they get in trouble for what they write? Can they express things in a polite and positive manner (or even negative, but use the form correctly?) and the teacher said yes; no one will be frowned upon. Well, he wrote a story about his professor one day. He took some lyrics from "Hot For Teacher" and re worked them into an essay. He didn't get in trouble for nicking lyrics. He got in trouble for being a little too proactive. The professor was uncomfortable, and took it to the board. He was "kicked off campus" and I think even received an incomplete for the course.


What sort of idiot thinks writing about their teacher is appropriate?


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## littlebabyjesus (May 25, 2012)

Santino said:


> What sort of idiot thinks writing about their teacher is appropriate?


What sort of creative writing teacher thinks writing about your teacher is inappropriate?

I've nothing particular against such courses - they provide a focus and motivation to get writing, which is valuable in itself - but that story illustrates their limits. I would imagine the likes of Mishima or Genet would not have lasted long on any course. In fact, I can think of a great many writers who would not have lasted.


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## DotCommunist (May 25, 2012)

if you've any arrogance you resent having to read and analyse the people whose prose is like kryptonite. But sometimes there are peoples work who you appreciate and steal pithy lines from


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## stuff_it (May 25, 2012)

Scarlette said:


> No, not complete beginner. That sounds like a good idea. I guess I want to get to know how to get on, how to write more regularly and mainly, how to plan and write longer projects.


So you want to pay someone to tell you to write more regularly. Why not just schedule some writing time regularly each week and see how you get on?


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## abe11825 (May 26, 2012)

Santino said:


> What sort of idiot thinks writing about their teacher is appropriate?


 
When you have the (creative) freedom to write whatever you wish, no holds barred, and are given every opportunity to let your mind wander, of course you're going to write about your teacher. He didn't make her out to be a floozy (according to the articles). He did it with respect. Considering he "asked numerous times" about topics and she said nothing was off limits, then whatever happens, happens. 

I semi agree with the articles because I've had that type of class, so I can see where the comments are coming from. But on the other hand, where the attitude is "anything goes", he shouldn't have suffered any legal action or expulsion. If need be, a slap on the wrist and change the syllabus / course requirements.


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## Santino (May 28, 2012)

abe11825 said:


> When you have the (creative) freedom to write whatever you wish, no holds barred, and are given every opportunity to let your mind wander, of course you're going to write about your teacher.


 I don't follow. Because you can write about anything, therefore it's inevitable you write about your teacher?


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## grit (May 28, 2012)

Santino said:


> I haven't got experiences, only prejudices, which say that creative writing courses are for people who want to churn out the sort of writing that will please people who can't earn a living as a writer.


 
Thats not strictly true, you can have a natural talent but there is a lot in planning a story and how to edit/identify bits to change is a learned skill.


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## Santino (May 28, 2012)

grit said:


> Thats not strictly true, you can have a natural talent but there is a lot in planning a story and how to edit/identify bits to change is a learned skill.


Who's talking about natural talents?


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## grit (May 28, 2012)

Santino said:


> Who's talking about natural talents?


 
Rereading your post now I think I probably misinterpreted it. Are you suggesting people who teach creative writing courses are people who couldnt be professional writers?


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## Santino (May 28, 2012)

grit said:


> Rereading your post now I think I probably misinterpreted it. Are you suggesting people who teach creative writing courses are people who couldnt be professional writers?


I'm suggesting that people who teach creative writing courses are often not making a successful enough living as a professional writer to be able to not teach creative writing courses.


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## grit (May 28, 2012)

Santino said:


> I'm suggesting that people who teach creative writing courses are often not making a successful enough living as a professional writer to be able to not teach creative writing courses.


 
Maybe... in some cases, however the people I know who teach them are successful professional writers with a back catalog spanning a decade or more. Which is the reason they can sell out courses quickly for good money.


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## abe11825 (May 28, 2012)

Santino said:


> I don't follow. Because you can write about anything, therefore it's inevitable you write about your teacher?


 
I'm saying it can happen. Most of the time it doesn't, but it can. These courses usually have the same curriculum and the professors say you can write about anything. Some people write about nature, some about marriage, some take darker paths. If its on your mind, you write it.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 28, 2012)

Santino said:


> I'm suggesting that people who teach creative writing courses are often not making a successful enough living as a professional writer to be able to not teach creative writing courses.


That's not really fair, you know. Kurt Vonnegut taught a creative writing course, and he was a fantastic writer in my and many other people's opinion. I'd have thought that anyone thinking of doing one ought to read what their prospective teachers have published, though. And of course, commercial success does not necessarily correlate very closely with many qualities that prospective students might be looking for.

Also, a lot of writers don't want to be full-time writers who do nothing else.


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## Santino (May 28, 2012)

abe11825 said:


> I'm saying it can happen. Most of the time it doesn't, but it can. These courses usually have the same curriculum and the professors say you can write about anything. Some people write about nature, some about marriage, some take darker paths. If its on your mind, you write it.


And sometimes it's inappropriate to say or write what's on your mind. That's a fact of living in a society whether or not you are taking a writing class.


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## abe11825 (May 28, 2012)

Santino said:


> And sometimes it's inappropriate to say or write what's on your mind. That's a fact of living in a society whether or not you are taking a writing class.


 
Then why have / take a creative writing course? Why be given the opportunity to express yourself on paper? Sure, it's judged by peers and professionals, but when there are no real "rules" to follow in the course, how can they be broken?


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## mrs quoad (May 29, 2012)

The first rule of breaking the rules club is...


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## Santino (May 29, 2012)

abe11825 said:


> Then why have / take a creative writing course? Why be given the opportunity to express yourself on paper? Sure, it's judged by peers and professionals, but when there are no real "rules" to follow in the course, how can they be broken?


It's not about rules. It's about behaviour that is and isn't appropriate. In any situation there is behaviour that is not appropriate, even when they are 'no rules'.


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## susie12 (Jun 5, 2012)

> I'm suggesting that people who teach creative writing courses are often not making a successful enough living as a professional writer to be able to not teach creative writing courses.​​


​ 
​This really is not true. On my MA course (Scriptwriting) all the tutors were professional writers in radio and TV and a lot of the students, myself included, have published work or had it performed and made money from our work. But stick to your prejudices if they bolster your feelings of superiority. ​


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## Santino (Jun 5, 2012)

Ok.


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