# WTF! Look what they've done to the Coach & Horses/Living Bar



## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

Can they really have got planning permission to do this to such a fine old building?


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## quimcunx (Nov 12, 2009)

That's beautiful.  

very tastefully done, I think.


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## RaverDrew (Nov 12, 2009)

Was already mentioned in another thread.


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## ovaltina (Nov 12, 2009)

Wow - that's willfully ugly 

They could have made it look really nice and Victorian


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 12, 2009)

fuck no.


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## clandestino (Nov 12, 2009)

But it's not permanent and at least the building's being used. I don't mind it - it's like a bit of the market that's creeped out onto Coldharbour Lane.


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## 5t3IIa (Nov 12, 2009)

There was prob a laminated thingy on the nearest lampost talking about what they were going to do and giving options for objections. DID NO ONE DO THIS?!


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## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> Was already mentioned in another thread.


What thread? Was there a pic? I think this deserves its own thread anyway.





ianw said:


> But it's not permanent and at least the building's being used. I don't mind it - it's like a bit of the market that's creeped out onto Coldharbour Lane.


Have you no regard for the architecture, dear man? They've just drilled great big holes into the tiled frontage to slap on that carbuncle of an awning.


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## g force (Nov 12, 2009)

The awning isn't too bad as they come, the signage is horrific but looks temporary


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 12, 2009)

Do they realise Lobo means 'Wolf' in Spanish and Portuguese?


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## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

5t3IIa said:


> There was prob a laminated thingy on the nearest lampost talking about what they were going to do and giving options for objections. DID NO ONE DO THIS?!


I pass by their often and didn't see anything and there was certainly nothing posted up on the front of the building where everyone could see it.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 12, 2009)

5t3IIa said:


> There was prob a laminated thingy on the nearest lampost talking about what they were going to do and giving options for objections. DID NO ONE DO THIS?!



i walk past there all the time and i never noticed anything.

i guess at least the building's being used, but how can there be any money in another fish/meat shop in central brixton?

i feel sorry for the neighbours who will now have fishy flats.


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## El Jugador (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Can they really have got planning permission to do this to such a fine old building?



Seems a bit fishy to me!


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## trabuquera (Nov 12, 2009)

I'm not all that bothered by the awning (hopefully that neon red will fade with time) - but the placard/board above it is a shocker - it's not flush with the side of the building, the colour scheme's a dog's breakfast and the typography isn't up to much either.

Shame, as with more sympathetic colour scheme & type, even this awning & nameboard combo from hell could have been made victorianesque.


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## ddraig (Nov 12, 2009)

that's horrific! 
used to like that building


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 12, 2009)

it wouldn't be the first time a shop has opened up and appeared to blatantly flout the plannning laws

also, im sure the previous occupier of this building ripped out the listed windows on the first floor of the living bar. he was ordered to put them back in but he never did. blatant vandalism


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## ajdown (Nov 12, 2009)

More halal?  Can't we have a 'normal' butchers in Brixton somewhere without having to get it from the supermarket?

Believe it or not, some people do actually still like pork.


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## ddraig (Nov 12, 2009)

ajdown said:


> More halal?  Can't we have a 'normal' butchers in Brixton somewhere without having to get it from the supermarket?
> 
> Believe it or not, some people do actually still like pork.



0.0000/10
why don't you fuck off to a normal town with normal people then


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## tarannau (Nov 12, 2009)

There's loads of places that still do pork - the big wholesaler (Dombeys?) in the covered market, the two latin american butchers and O Talho.

Honestly AJ, you really are a repetitive (and unobservant) berk. Your unbalanced obsession against halal meat is a little unpleasant tbh.


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## innit (Nov 12, 2009)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck


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## innit (Nov 12, 2009)

tarannau said:


> There's loads of places that still do pork - the big wholesaler (Dombeys?) in the covered market, the two latin american butchers and O Talho.
> 
> Honestly AJ, you really are a repetitive (and unobservant) berk. Your unbalanced obsession against halal meat is a little unpleasant tbh.



Yeah, Dombeys do pork for cheap.  For what it matters.


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## tarannau (Nov 12, 2009)

Decent outside reared British pork too - I can recommend the pork belly, especially if they cut a (bone-toting) chunk from the back for you.

Their sausages taste great, but they look like they've been made by a clumsy one armed guy wearing a mitten..


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## Onket (Nov 12, 2009)

5t3IIa said:


> There was prob a laminated thingy on the nearest lampost talking about what they were going to do and giving options for objections. DID NO ONE DO THIS?!



This^


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 12, 2009)

does halal meat taste any different to 'normal' meat? 

I wouldnt know cos I dont eat meat.


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## tarannau (Nov 12, 2009)

Course it doesn't, unless you've some weird belief that you can taste the neck cut or the presence of ethnic hands on your bangers.

It's just AJ being a bigoted plum, again.


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## innit (Nov 12, 2009)

In my experience no, although halal chicken has a slightly different look when it's uncooked.  Lots of restaurants use halal meat for obvious reasons, meat eaters probably eat it all the time without noticing.


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## clandestino (Nov 12, 2009)

I do think the main problem is that the sign doesn't match the awning, so it just looks uneven. If they'd levelled it up a bit then it would look a lot better. It just looks a bit messy.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 12, 2009)

5t3IIa said:


> There was prob a laminated thingy on the nearest lampost talking about what they were going to do and giving options for objections. DID NO ONE DO THIS?!





Onket said:


> This^


According to the Lambeth planning database there has been no recent application for signage or anything else. The latest associated document is an enforcement notice dated 01/09/2006 detailing the illegal removal of the first floor windows and the illegal installation of air con units and flues.


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## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

Onket said:


> This^


Did you see one then?

I certainly didn't and I pass by there most days and would certainly have looked at such a notice.



Brixton Hatter said:


> According to the Lambeth planning database there has been no recent application for signage or anything else. The latest associated document is an enforcement notice dated 01/09/2006 detailing the illegal removal of the first floor windows and the illegal installation of air con units and flues.


So it looks like it has been slapped up without permission?

Sounds like a job for lang rabbie!


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 12, 2009)

I guess it depends on whether you need planning permission for such work...

I'm no expert on this, but I would have thought you needed some sort of permission to put that stuff up.


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## Onket (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Did you see one then?
> 
> I certainly didn't and I pass by there most days and would certainly have looked at such a notice.
> 
> So it looks like it has been slapped up without permission?



I did ask some fellas unloading a lorry next to there, a couple of weeks ago, what they were doing & they said something about refrigeration which makes more sense now. I thought they were just using the insides of the building for storage.

Anyway, it's a shame about the building but then I'd rather have it in use than a boarded up eyesore.

And as far as I'm aware, moaning about things on Urban doesn't really get things too far.

All the best with your campaign though.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 12, 2009)

Onket said:


> And as far as I'm aware, moaning about things on Urban doesn't really get things too far.


in fact, we've had several successes with planning issues which started on here, e.g. stopping the old bike shop getting turned into another bar, and stopping the footpath between tulse hill and appach road getting closed by the building of some 'luxury' flats.


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## ajdown (Nov 12, 2009)

I'll look up Dombeys at the weekend then.  I wasn't aware it existed.  I don't shop a lot down the bottom of the hill except Iceland and the fish place under the railway line.


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## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

Onket said:


> And as far as I'm aware, moaning about things on Urban doesn't really get things too far.
> 
> All the best with your campaign though.


It's not a 'campaign' but I've every right to comment on tacky developments on my street. And sometimes 'moaning' on here can bring about a response in the real world too, so perhaps you shouldn't be so negative.

Oh, and you didn't answer my question. Did you see a laminated street notice about this or not?


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## tarannau (Nov 12, 2009)

I can't believe someone who often does their shopping at Iceland's has the temerity to whine about halal butchers, especially when they seemingly can't use the eyes in their head to spot the umpteen pork vendors in Brixton.

Bigotry make you blind these days AJ? Or do you make this whinge about halal every time anything vaguely connected is mentioned?


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2009)

5t3IIa said:


> There was prob a laminated thingy on the nearest lampost talking about what they were going to do and giving options for objections. DID NO ONE DO THIS?!



Heh a good joke that's been missed by the look of it...


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## Onket (Nov 12, 2009)

Brixton Hatter said:


> in fact, we've had several successes with planning issues which started on here, e.g. stopping the old bike shop getting turned into another bar, and stopping the footpath between tulse hill and appach road getting closed by the building of some 'luxury' flats.



Looks like the boat has been missed here.



Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh a good joke that's been missed by the look of it...



It wasn't.


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## Dan U (Nov 12, 2009)

i have no objection whatsoever to that building used for what it is being used for.

but ffs it looks a fucking eyesore, twas a lovely pretty original facade.


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## Vider (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Can they really have got planning permission to do this to such a fine old building?



Oh that's great. Brilliant. Can't wait to head down there now.


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## Vider (Nov 12, 2009)

Can remember that road about 8-10 years (haven't been there at night for a while) or ago being buzzing on a Friday Sat night. Really, really buzzing with revellers or people just enjoying the evening.

Would be a *damn shame* if CHL morphed into the usual chicken shops, nail bars, money exchange etc.


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## netbob (Nov 12, 2009)

Lambeth Planning for the town centre are massively understaffed, I did an FOI request last year and they had something like 12 outstanding breaches for the last 5 years just for electric avneue. They cant cope with it. I'd email a a complaint, but they probably already think i'm a nutjob. anyone? tpac@lambeth.gov.uk

edit: yes, those signs would need some kind of permission as far as I know


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## tarannau (Nov 12, 2009)

Vider said:


> Can remember that road about 8-10 years (haven't been there at night for a while) or ago being buzzing on a Friday Sat night. Really, really buzzing with revellers or people just enjoying the evening.
> 
> Would be a *damn shame* if CHL morphed into the usual chicken shops, nail bars, money exchange etc.




Yeah, that'd be awful if it became a road with shops that local people had demand for and used rather than style bars that mainly incomers popped into every 5 years or so

WTF?


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## lang rabbie (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> So it looks like it has been slapped up without permission?
> 
> Sounds like a job for lang rabbie!



I'm currently dashing around my flat with buckets dealing with leaking roof so not well placed to do much.

Suggest contacting all three Coldharbour ward councillors - Donatus Anyanwu, Rachel Heywood and Sharon Malley and making it clear that such an obvious breach of planning in a key conservation area is a major embarrassment for the council.  

However, as the sign doesn't appear from that photo to be back illuminated it would not automatically get turned down in a conservation area - any arguments will have to be about size and proportions relative to the character of the Coach and Horses building.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 13, 2009)

That looks fucking awful.

Is it payback for all the whining about the Living Bar when it was there?


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## rennie (Nov 13, 2009)

Mr Retro said:


> Is it payback for all the whining about the Living Bar when it was there?



looks like it.


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## hipipol (Nov 13, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Course it doesn't, unless you've some weird belief that you can taste the neck cut or the presence of ethnic hands on your bangers.
> 
> It's just AJ being a bigoted plum, again.



Buy a big lump dead cow from a non Halal butcher
Buy exactly the same lump (well as close as you can get) from a Halal butcher


Lay them on plates for a day

Loads mor Blud drips from the non Halal - better for yer Blue Steaks but otherwise not a lot of difference....


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## hipipol (Nov 13, 2009)

D'ya think they do Noodels too?


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## rennie (Nov 13, 2009)

hipipol said:


> D'ya think they do Noodels too?



That would be ace. One stop shop etc.


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## TopCat (Nov 13, 2009)

It might not be as good as bringing back the old but comfortable Coach and Horses but it's a sure fire improvement on that fucking Living Bar.

That said an abattoir would be better, or a nuclear waste tip.


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## teuchter (Nov 14, 2009)

lang rabbie said:


> I'm currently dashing around my flat with buckets dealing with leaking roof so not well placed to do much.
> 
> Suggest contacting all three Coldharbour ward councillors - Donatus Anyanwu, Rachel Heywood and Sharon Malley and making it clear that such an obvious breach of planning in a key conservation area is a major embarrassment for the council.
> 
> However, as the sign doesn't appear from that photo to be back illuminated it would not automatically get turned down in a conservation area - any arguments will have to be about size and proportions relative to the character of the Coach and Horses building.



Also the method of fixing - if it's damaged any of the shopfront (and it seems likely that it will have) then that's certainly a valid concern.

If someone has the time to do it, I would definitely recommend that a complaint is made to Lambeth planning. The complaint will ideally be accompanied by some photographs.

http://e-forms.lambeth.gov.uk/Lambeth.EForms.PlanningEnforce/(fq0tva45d53zqc45kxgbzsys)/Default.aspx

Editor, if you aren't able to do it, if you email me the photos you took, (did you take any more close-up ones?) I will do it myself.

I reported some demolition in a Brixton conservation area a couple of years ago and they did respond, and an officer came round to look. He agreed it was technically illegal but said they wouldn't pursue it because it was relatively minor. This, though, is on a main street and affects the frontage of a historic building so I think they'd have to take it seriously.

Even if Lambeth are too crap to do anything about it, I think it's worth registering the complaint as a matter of principle. At least they might speak to the buiding owners and give them some hassle which might just make it slightly less likely they'll do any further damage to the building.


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## Badgers (Nov 14, 2009)

TopCat said:


> That said an abattoir would be better



Happy hour?


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## Gramsci (Nov 14, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Also the method of fixing - if it's damaged any of the shopfront (and it seems likely that it will have) then that's certainly a valid concern.
> 
> I reported some demolition in a Brixton conservation area a couple of years ago and they did respond, and an officer came round to look. He agreed it was technically illegal but said they wouldn't pursue it because it was relatively minor. This, though, is on a main street and affects the frontage of a historic building so I think they'd have to take it seriously.
> 
> Even if Lambeth are too crap to do anything about it, I think it's worth registering the complaint as a matter of principle. At least they might speak to the buiding owners and give them some hassle which might just make it slightly less likely they'll do any further damage to the building.



I have done this before in CHL . It was sorted out. The officer did get on the case and told the shopkeeper to take down the awning etc. 

Depends on the officer maybe. When I put in a complaint about the removal of the fountain outside the library and changes to the Tate Gardens they didnt want to know.

Dogstar Larry did a lot of damge to the building. His excuse being that that he denied doing it and there was no proof. Which is why recent photo is good idea as LR says.


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## Gramsci (Nov 14, 2009)

editor said:


> It's not a 'campaign' but I've every right to comment on tacky developments on my street. And sometimes 'moaning' on here can bring about a response in the real world too, so perhaps you shouldn't be so negative.
> 
> Oh, and you didn't answer my question. Did you see a laminated street notice about this or not?



I never saw one and i walk by there on a regular basis. In any case its worth putting in a complaint.


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## teuchter (Nov 14, 2009)

Gramsci said:


> I have done this before in CHL . It was sorted out. The officer did get on the case and told the shopkeeper to take down the awning etc.
> 
> Depends on the officer maybe. When I put in a complaint about the removal of the fountain outside the library and changes to the Tate Gardens they didnt want to know.
> 
> Dogstar Larry did a lot of damge to the building. His excuse being that that he denied doing it and there was no proof. Which is why recent photo is good idea as LR says.



I'd imagine that the changes to Tate Gardens had already gone through the process of consideration by the planners, and they had approved it, which is why they weren't going to consider an objection after the event. This seems not to have been subject to any application, so hasn't been considered by them which is why they ought to take action.


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## teuchter (Nov 14, 2009)

Also -

I would have thought that this constitute a change of use? ie. from public house to shop. That should have been subject to planning permission in its own right.


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## colacubes (Nov 14, 2009)

Gramsci said:


> I never saw one and i walk by there on a regular basis. In any case its worth putting in a complaint.



They're also supposed to post notices to residents who live close by and I'm almost certainly close enough and never got one.


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## Gramsci (Nov 14, 2009)

Its almost certain they have done this without planning permission. I can access the crap Lambeth website but have been able to download Planning enforcement form.

The grounds would be possible:

Material change of use
Unauthorised advertisement
Development without Conservation area consent.

Affect on "amenity". Makes the area look shite

The change of appearance of the building without consent is important in a Conservation area.


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## Gramsci (Nov 14, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I'd imagine that the changes to Tate Gardens had already gone through the process of consideration by the planners, and they had approved it, which is why they weren't going to consider an objection after the event. This seems not to have been subject to any application, so hasn't been considered by them which is why they ought to take action.



Actually in the case of Tate Gardens no. Im not talking about the new square but when they took away the old fountain and some seats and paved it.

It was done with no planing application. They said it was movement of street furniture and did not need planning consent. I put in planning enforcement query to contest this as it was major works imo. Removal of the old fountain was more than moving street furniture.

The officer doing the case (or rather not doing it) asked why i wanted to know. I said i just wanted to know if a retrospective planning application was required or fountain reinstated. He said he had spoken to the senior involved who had done it by "consulting" residents. I said it probably still needed a planning application which was a form of consultation. 

Apparently senior officrs werent happy i had queried this.Made me more sure i had a point. I now what "consultation" is like in Lambeth. Planning applications are at least quasi judicial and a proper process you can comment on.

Of course nothing came of this.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2009)

Gramsci said:


> The change of appearance of the building without consent is important in a Conservation area.


It's one of the few architecturally notable buildings on CHL and they've made it look shit.

Who do I complain to?


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## teuchter (Nov 14, 2009)

editor said:


> It's one of the few architecturally notable buildings on CHL and they've made it look shit.
> 
> Who do I complain to?



i put the link in post a few posts back.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 14, 2009)

It looks awful but it was an empty building and somebody is trying to start a business there in the middle of a recession.

Maybe give them a bit of slack?


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## ajdown (Nov 14, 2009)

There's not exactly a shortage of halal meat and fish shops in Brixton already though is there?  If they'd done their research properly they'd have discovered they weren't needed.


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## Mr Retro (Nov 14, 2009)

So what if there are other places doing the same thing? That dosn't mean another one can't give it a go.

Have you done research that has shown they are not needed?


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## tarannau (Nov 15, 2009)

I think he's done imaginary research in his tiny little head. The research methodology being that he's a bigot and doesn't want halal meat for whatever reason. If the butcher was a ruddy-faced type from the home counties I suspect AJ would be just fine.


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## hipipol (Nov 15, 2009)

ajdown said:


> There's not exactly a shortage of halal meat and fish shops in Brixton already though is there?  If they'd done their research properly they'd have discovered they weren't needed.



"Halal Fish"?

Hmm, seems like some of that Big Value Iceland muck has munched chunks of you head mate


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## ajdown (Nov 15, 2009)

Ok, "halal meat, and fish that doesn't appear to be halal" - is that any clearer?

The "research methodology" is that, from memory, in that particular area of Brixton I can think of about 3 fish shops and 4 halal butchers already in a relatively small area.  Plus Sainsburys and Iceland for non-halal meat.  The massive Tesco is perhaps a 5 minute walk away.

I personally don't want to eat halal meat for religious reasons.  End of discussion.


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## tarannau (Nov 15, 2009)

Hold on, aren't you the soft minded goon that specifically requested a 'normal' butcher on the first page of this thread? And the bloke who, for all the talk of market research and shops in the area, failed to notice the multiple selection of butchers already here selling pork.

I put it to you that you're talking unmitigated shite and trying to retrospectively excuse away your weirdo prejudices. And which religion of yours prohibits eating halal meat?


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## 5t3IIa (Nov 15, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Hold on, aren't you the soft minded goon that specifically requested a 'normal' butcher on the first page of this thread? And the bloke who, for all the talk of market research and shops in the area, failed to notice the multiple selection of butchers already here selling pork.
> 
> I put it to you that you're talking unmitigated shite and trying to retrospectively excuse away your weirdo prejudices.



It's for religious reasons, he's doesn't have to excuse them, silly.


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## ajdown (Nov 15, 2009)

The whole market/covered market/Popes Road area is a complete rabbit warren, and it's entirely possible - as has happeend - that someone could do bits of the market and not explore the other bits, beyond the main market itself and not actually find some of these shops.

I don't enjoy shopping, I don't particularly like crowds.  I shop because I have to to eat, and I need to eat to stay alive.  Thus spending a few 'nice hours' enjoying the ethic diversity of central Brixton is not something I would necessarily choose to do.

Hence, I know Iceland sells pork, so I'll buy it in there instead of trawling the market warren for some.


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## tarannau (Nov 15, 2009)

He's invented his own religion now? Like a special one for small-minded bigots with irrational prejudices?

I've been known to feed Christians, Catholics even, halal certified meat. I've even served kosher matzos on occasion. Have I made unbelievers of them all, corrupted them? Am I bad person?


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## ajdown (Nov 15, 2009)

If people didn't know what you were serving them, or knew and weren't bothered about it, then that's their choice.

Me, I wouldn't want to knowingly eat meat that has been sacrified and/or made acceptable to another god.


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## tarannau (Nov 15, 2009)

Rabbit warren my arse by the way. Dombeys, for example, is on the main throughfare of the covered market, a few steps away from the ever so hidden Franco Manca. There's a latin american butcher selling pork prominent on Pope's Road, another just by the entrance of Brixton Village and O Talho is right opposite Argos on Atlantic Road. None of these locations is any way hard to find. No Halal to make him happy too.

You'd expect any gobshite talking of the need for others to undertake market research to have more than a cursory glance around before spouting bollocks, wouldn't you?


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 15, 2009)

editor said:


> It's one of the few architecturally notable buildings on CHL and they've made it look shit.
> 
> Who do I complain to?


we've already emailed the council about this - but they havent got back yet.

apparently the awning might not need planning permission if it is retractable, but the signage would need permission.


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## lang rabbie (Nov 15, 2009)

ajdown said:


> Me, I wouldn't want to knowingly eat meat that has been sacrified and/or made acceptable to another god.





Islam is a monotheistic religion, and though Muslims refer to him as Allah, he is the same god as that of Jews and Christians - hence Abraham is regarded as a prophet in Islam.

"Surely Abraham was an example, obedient to Allah, by nature upright, and he was not of the polytheists. He was grateful for Our bounties. We chose him and guided him unto a right path. We gave him good in this world, and in the next he will most surely be among the righteous." (Qur'an 16:120-121


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## ymu (Nov 15, 2009)

Brixton Hatter said:


> does halal meat taste any different to 'normal' meat?
> 
> I wouldnt know cos I dont eat meat.


UK abattoirs use the same slaughter methods as halal (and kosher) anyway - it's the most humane. The only difference is that halal abattoirs bless the meat en masse.


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## editor (Nov 15, 2009)

They've got another fuck-off ugly sign announcing a Beauty saloon on the first floor. Above the fishmongers. Mmmmm.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> Do they realise Lobo means 'Wolf' in Spanish and Portuguese?



Won't someone think of the children?


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 15, 2009)

The council might take a while to get around to it, but once they do, it sounds like an open and shut case.


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## colacubes (Nov 15, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The council might take a while to get around to it, but once they do, it sounds like an open and shut case.



Of course it should be but there's a 4 year limit on these things and we've pointed out mega planning problems in the same conservation area that are now out of time so who knows


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## linerider (Nov 15, 2009)

ajdown said:


> .
> 
> Me, I wouldn't want to knowingly eat meat that has been sacrified and/or made acceptable to another god.



but there can only be one true god to the bigoted.


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## ymu (Nov 15, 2009)

It's dumb, isn't it. Most Muslims will eat kosher if halal isn't available, and many Jews will eat halal if kosher isn't available (although kosher has some additional rules, related to handling, I think). But Christians, oh no. Our God is different, doncha know?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 15, 2009)

ymu said:


> It's dumb, isn't it. Most Muslims will eat kosher if halal isn't available, and many Jews will eat halal if kosher isn't available (although kosher has some additional rules, related to handling, I think). But Christians, oh no. Our God is different, doncha know?



I don't think Ajdown represents 'christians' as a group to be honest.


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## editor (Nov 15, 2009)

Emails sent, forms filled in and photo evidence forwarded, in triplicate.


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## ymu (Nov 15, 2009)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I don't think Ajdown represents 'christians' as a group to be honest.


No, you're right. I'm thinking of the rabid types who spread propaganda about halal ("they leave them to bleed to death for hours!" ).


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## twistedAM (Nov 16, 2009)

editor said:


> They've got another fuck-off ugly sign announcing a Beauty saloon on the first floor. Above the fishmongers. Mmmmm.


Classy


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## 5t3IIa (Nov 16, 2009)

Saloon sounds fun tho, less formal than a salon


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## fogbat (Nov 16, 2009)

5t3IIa said:


> Saloon sounds fun tho, less formal than a salon



Full of _really pretty_ cowboys


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## innit (Nov 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Also -
> 
> I would have thought that this constitute a change of use? ie. from public house to shop. That should have been subject to planning permission in its own right.



Planning permission isn't needed to change from A3 (drinking establishments) to A1 (shops) see this handy chart

The idea is that you don't need permission to change from a more disruptive use (nightclub) to a less disruptive use (shop).


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## Sunray (Nov 16, 2009)

Its quite unusual for a building that has a drinking license to change to something that's not a pub thats in given its location. If any one wanted to open a bar in Brixton, that would be a perfect opportunity.   Its very central Brixton and is already a licensed premise which is fairly hard to get on buildings that don't have one.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm not convinced about that tbh - there are enough pubs that have closed down close enough to the centre of Brixton in recent years to work against that ideal. You need balls of steel, or pockets of depth, to want to open up a pub independently, particularly if it hasn't much of a food trade or potential to expand that area of the business.

On a slightly more positive note it seems that the Farside is reopening soon, if it hasn't already. The old management are sadly out, but S and crew from The Railway are taking over by all accounts.


----------



## innit (Nov 16, 2009)

Yes, and planning permission is needed to change from a1 -> a3.  Must be a sign of the recession that noone is willing to punt on opening a new bar at the moment.  It's a shame as it's unlikely that the change will be reversed in the future.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2009)

tarannau said:


> On a slightly more positive note it seems that the Farside is reopening soon, if it hasn't already. The old management are sadly out, but S and crew from The Railway are taking over by all accounts.


They've changed the name back to the original 'Old Queens Head' which can only be a good sign.

Loads of pubs have struggled, but the Living bar was a right earner, perfectly located and I'd say still a pretty safe bet as a lucrative bar. 

Quite a few people around Brixton in the bar trade saw this potential and expressed serious interest in buying it, but the original *wild* asking price meant it stayed empty for a long time.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2009)

innit said:


> Yes, and planning permission is needed to change from a1 -> a3.  Must be a sign of the recession that noone is willing to punt on opening a new bar at the moment.  It's a shame as it's unlikely that the change will be reversed in the future.


It seems strange seeing as the night economy in Brixton looks pretty bright: the Fridge has reopened, the Ritzy has a new venue, the Rest Is Noise has opened and Hootananny is doing well too.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Loads of pubs have struggled, but the Living bar was a right earner, perfectly located and I'd say still a pretty safe bet as a lucrative bar.
> 
> Quite a few people around Brixton in the bar trade saw this potential and expressed serious interest in buying it, but the original *wild* asking price meant it stayed empty for a long time.


I saw the freehold for sale for something £1.2 million a while back...


----------



## Sunray (Nov 16, 2009)

1.2 Million!! 

No wonder it was empty for so long.    800K would be a reasonable asking price.  Clearly your not going to make that with fish, so who ever currently owns it has a loan against it and needs to try to hold onto it by renting it out.  

A music free rustic gastro style pub could do very well if the food was good and the bar well stocked.  Its fitting well with the building.  Unfortunately you'd need someone with talent to run the food or its doomed.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 16, 2009)

Was Living a right earner? Even allowing for LM's habits, it only ever seemed to get busy at weekends and then only for a few hours, often coinciding with drinks promotions and special nights.  For a lot of the week it was fairly empty - I can't even remember if it was open daytime

My gut feel is that it's a bit small for a full on dancey-boozer, it doesn't have much of a kitchen iirc and there's not much of an outside area for smokers. And to be brutal it doesn't have a set of dedicated locals bringing in a steady revenue stream. Add to that it's surrounded by well kitted out competitors with better reputations. 

It's far from an impossible mission, but it doesn't strike me as a pub with massive obvious potential. You'd have to invest and work hard to carve out the right positioning for it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 16, 2009)

I agree tarrannau, I reckon it would take a lot of hard work and deep pockets to sort this place out. The location is perfect - apart perhaps from having the Albert opposite!



Brixton Hatter said:


> I saw the freehold for sale for something £1.2 million a while back...


Here's the link - which also shows you what it looked like before these new signs went up [opens a PDF]


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Was Living a right earner? Even allowing for LM's habits, it only ever seemed to get busy at weekends and then only for a few hours, often coinciding with drinks promotions and special nights.  For a lot of the week it was fairly empty - I can't even remember if it was open daytime


I disagree - and so would several local landlords/promoters who were _mustard keen_ to get their hands on the place when it first went up for sale. 

It would need work and investment of course, but I'd happily take a punt on the place (well, I would if I wasn't promoting a club directly opposite!).


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## PacificOcean (Nov 16, 2009)

editor said:


> It seems strange seeing as the night economy in Brixton looks pretty bright: *the Fridge has reopened,* the Ritzy has a new venue, the Rest Is Noise has opened and Hootananny is doing well too.



Has it?

Is it still a gay nightclub?

There was all that thing a couple of years ago, where the brave old coppers raided it to rid Brixton of the scourge of gay people in a club on E causing no trouble.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 16, 2009)

True, but there was also that incident when the Fridge bouncers nearly kicked that guy to death on the main road outside the club. I thought that was why it got closed down.


----------



## prunus (Nov 16, 2009)

ajdown said:


> Me, I wouldn't want to knowingly eat meat that has been sacrified and/or made acceptable to another god.



You sir, in case you weren't already aware, are a fuckwit.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Has it?


I was there Friday. Fantastic night.

http://www.urban75.org/2009/11/brixton-fridge-relaunch.html


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## PacificOcean (Nov 16, 2009)

editor said:


> I was there Friday. Fantastic night.
> 
> http://www.urban75.org/2009/11/brixton-fridge-relaunch.html



Excellent!

Such a waste of venue other wise.

What were the beer prices though?


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## editor (Nov 16, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Excellent!
> 
> Such a waste of venue other wise.
> 
> What were the beer prices though?


FOUR quid. For a fucking can.


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## PacificOcean (Nov 16, 2009)

editor said:


> FOUR quid. For a fucking can.





Is it imported from the Galapagos Islands?


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## Tolpuddle (Nov 16, 2009)

There was a bit more than the odd E at that time, I think the fallout inclided the arrest in other parts of London of class A dealers.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=8354007

And the one with the the attacking people outside was the Fridge Bar, not the Fridge, very, very different venues. And neither got closed down.


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## editor (Nov 16, 2009)

The security was very in-your-face getting into the Fridge. You had to empty your pockets into a tray and then get a full pat-down, airport style.

Not the most welcoming of entrances, really.


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## RaverDrew (Nov 16, 2009)

editor said:


> The security was very in-your-face getting into the Fridge. You had to empty your pockets into a tray and then get a full pat-down, airport style.
> 
> Not the most welcoming of entrances, really.



FUCK THAT !!!!


----------



## teuchter (Nov 17, 2009)

editor said:


> I was there Friday. Fantastic night.
> 
> http://www.urban75.org/2009/11/brixton-fridge-relaunch.html



That's good that it's up and running again. Hopefully it will stay alive.

The website's a bit crap though.

I noticed the Fridge Bar had reopened as well, the other day. Slightly slicker website. "Ladies free before 11". Hmm. always the sign of a quality establishment.


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## editor (Nov 17, 2009)

Got a reply from the council: 





> I write further to your recent emails concerning the change of use and display of advertisements at 443-445 Coldharbour Lane, to advise you that an enforcement case is currently running and your details have been added to the case


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## ovaltina (Nov 17, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Has it?
> 
> Is it still a gay nightclub?
> 
> There was all that thing a couple of years ago, where the brave old coppers raided it to rid Brixton of the scourge of gay people in a club on E causing no trouble.



They've had a few gay nights over the last year, Love Muscle has been on a few times and other promoters have had a go. They've been good nights but competition from Vauxhall and the credit crunch have made it hard to get the numbers through the door to make it work


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## g force (Nov 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Got a reply from the council:



Excellent


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 17, 2009)

yeah we got a reply from the council too. i expect they'll visit the place and try to resolve it informally to begin with...


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## tommers (Nov 18, 2009)

Another victory for local people.  Well done.


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## netbob (Nov 20, 2009)

looks like its coming down today


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## editor (Nov 20, 2009)

Huzzah!


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## teuchter (Nov 20, 2009)

good work


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 21, 2009)

Fairplay to the council. I didn't expect them to react so quickly. Still, goes to show it's never too late to complain about a _blatant_ breach of the planning laws..


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## netbob (Nov 21, 2009)

hmm. 2 of the boards that I saw coming down yesterday morning were back up by teh evening.


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## editor (Nov 21, 2009)

I'll check on my way out and get ready for Round 2 of letter writing!


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## co-op (Nov 21, 2009)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I don't think Ajdown represents 'christians' as a group to be honest.



If he's worshipping a different god from muslims, he isn't actually a christian. Do you think we ought to tell him?


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 23, 2009)

memespring said:


> hmm. 2 of the boards that I saw coming down yesterday morning were back up by teh evening.



I was standing right outside the place on Saturday lunchtime and the signs were still there. Did they actually get taken down at all?


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## netbob (Nov 23, 2009)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I was standing right outside the place on Saturday lunchtime and the signs were still there. Did they actually get taken down at all?



For about an hour or so there was just a plyboard thing up there with no signs on it


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 24, 2009)

It's open for business. They were trying to entice people in but the locals seemed reluctant.

I have to say it was nice to see some lights in there for a change, but it's still a dayglo bloody eyesore.

Apparently you can rent the top floor. Or just the chairs!


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2009)

I got a response from the council. Apparently everything's jus' dandy with those signs.



> I am writing following your enquiry made to the planning department with regard to the change of use at the above property.
> 
> A change of use from a bar (A4 use class) to a butcher’s shop (A1 use class) is permitted development by virtue of Class A of Part 3 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995 (as amended).  This means that the change of use does not require planning permission from the council.
> 
> ...


----------



## innit (Nov 24, 2009)

!!!!!!

They are so ugly I kind of assumed they were temporary signage.  Like, why would anyone want their building to look so bad?

What a shame.


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## teuchter (Nov 24, 2009)

Have you got a photo of the "amended" signs?

Lambeth can say they "comply" as if it's a case of either they tick the box or they don't.... but the reality is, that if they decide they are inappropriate, then they can disallow it. I've been involved with enough signage applications in London to know how fussy an LA can be if they want to. Could it be that Lambeth just can't be bothered, or don't give a toss about central Brixton?


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 24, 2009)

so the signs are ok, they were just in the wrong position? 

FFS!


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## editor (Nov 24, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Have you got a photo of the "amended" signs?
> 
> Lambeth can say they "comply" as if it's a case of either they tick the box or they don't.... but the reality is, that if they decide they are inappropriate, then they can disallow it. I've been involved with enough signage applications in London to know how fussy an LA can be if they want to. Could it be that Lambeth just can't be bothered, or don't give a toss about central Brixton?


As far as I can see they're exactly the same as they were before, but I'll check tonight.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 24, 2009)

It's possible the signs have been moved slightly up and to the left...


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## lang rabbie (Nov 24, 2009)

Basically, if the property owners don't care about the buildings, then conservation area status alone offers bugger-all protection to the character of an area apart from preventing buildings being demolished. (Well - not even that - but the fines are now sufficiently tough that developers don't tend to dare!)

Looking at Lambeth's Supplementary Planning Document - Shopfronts and Signage it gives guidance for schemes that need planning consent for changes to the structure, but doesn't have a lot to say on advertisement consents. 

Were the planners asked about the blinds?   There is no way that those cheap and nasty abominations are "in-keeping".

Lambeth's Unitary Development Plan adopted in 2007 does seem to have a number of areas where I would have though that they could argue that what has been done is not in compliance states at : 



			
				UDP Policy 37 said:
			
		

> *Policy 37 Shopfronts and Advertisements*
> Roller shutters that allow no view of the shop during closed hours will not be
> permitted. Shutter boxes should be incorporated behind the fascia sign
> wherever possible.
> ...



However, I have an ugly suspicion that the Department for Communities and Local Government "deregulated" some of the advertisement controls in the same year, which may mean that some of Lambeth's detailed UDP requirements might be more difficult to enforce.


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## teuchter (Nov 24, 2009)

Lang Rabbie, as you point out there is more than enough stuff in the UDP that could be used to reject the signage that has been put up. I don't know about the "deregulation" you mention. I'm not aware of anything having changed substantially in the last few years.

The message I am getting from the council's response to this is very much "can't be bothered".

As it happens just the other day I got an email from a Lambeth planning officer regarding a domestic rear extension in a conservation area in Clapham. Without going into too much detail - this is a rear extension replacing an existing one which is an agglomeration of conservatories and the like. All that is to change is the external materials. The materials proposed are not particularly unusual. But the conservation officer isn't happy and says that the new parts should be in brick and slate to match the original house. In other words they want the "new" parts (which don't replace any original structure) to look like they are part of the original house. This is really dumb thinking and out of line with what I understand of modern conservation where you preserve what is of value, and make clear that new additions are new additions.

Anyway, the point is that they will kick up a fuss about something in a back garden that perhaps five households will be able to see, that won't result in the destruction of any original structure, and that isn't even any bigger than what it replaces... and yet they don't give a toss about stuff like this signage in one of the main streets in Brixton, in full public view, on a notable building, and quite obviously totally out of scale and character.

It's inconsistent and really frustrating. So much stuff involving LA planners is just so .


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## netbob (Nov 24, 2009)

I did an FOI request last year asking for a list of shop front related enforcement orders, at the time there were 11 outstanding cases:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/enforcement_forders_for_replacin?unfold=1#incoming-6277

I'm betting that has gone up rather than down 

I'm really hoping one of the parties makes an issue out of this at the election next year. Not that any of them is less to blame, but there's definitely electoral juice in it and might actually make something happen.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 25, 2009)

Lang Rabbie, you're a genius. As usual. 

And teuchter, I agree completely, it does seem strange that the way planning is executed for individuals appears different from how it is done for business.

meme I couldn't get your link for some reason


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## matt m (Nov 25, 2009)

does anyone know what the hell they mean about being able to rent the "chairs"?!


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## innit (Nov 25, 2009)

Hairdressing salon, they rent chairs to hairdressers.

as in the hairdresser pays a certain amount of rent per day to use a chair and then they split profits.


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## twistedAM (Nov 25, 2009)

innit said:


> Hairdressing salon, they rent chairs to hairdressers.
> 
> as in the hairdresser pays a certain amount of rent per day to use a chair and then they split profits.



Think they'll do mullets there?


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## g force (Nov 25, 2009)

business at the front, party at the back!


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## Fuzzy (Nov 25, 2009)

sorry not read the whole thread but has anyone actually checked to see whether they've got consent to display that sign. signage and adverts such as the one pictured need advertisement consent to be granted by the council in the similar way to planning permission. i'm also right in remembering that this is a listed building or in a conservation area? if so rules on displaying signs are stricter. check lambeth's planning register and if there is nothing on there contact the enforcement team and register a complaint.


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## ddraig (Nov 25, 2009)

all of that has been done by the brixton urbs
just read the last couple of pages


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## tim (Nov 25, 2009)

ajdown said:


> There's not exactly a shortage of halal meat and fish shops in Brixton already though is there?  If they'd done their research properly they'd have discovered they weren't needed.



Do a little proper research and you'll find you've already posted a very similar two-penniesworth of bigotry a page or so back on the thread.


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## Gramsci (Nov 29, 2009)

lang rabbie said:


> Basically, if the property owners don't care about the buildings, then conservation area status alone offers bugger-all protection to the character of an area apart from preventing buildings being demolished. (Well - not even that - but the fines are now sufficiently tough that developers don't tend to dare!)
> 
> Looking at Lambeth's Supplementary Planning Document - Shopfronts and Signage it gives guidance for schemes that need planning consent for changes to the structure, but doesn't have a lot to say on advertisement consents.
> 
> ...




Did win a case against one shopkeeper in CHL who put up signs and canopies etc. The enforcement officer did sort it out. But even if signs removed there are holes etc in brickwork. Its not just owners whodont care its the shopkeepers as well. They dont regard it as your business to object to what they do to the appearance of the buildings they use.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

I think this is just a general indication of how out of control Lambeth Council are. I live off Brixton Hill where we are seeing an increase in late licence premises, much to the annoyance of local residents. However in Brixton town centre they are closing down the pubs. What the hell is going on?


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

Where is there an increase in late licence properties on Brixton Hill then TS? The Hootahob, Mango and White Horse all have more restrictive or earlier licences than a few years back.The Woodcocks has gone, The South Side and Telegraph are a pale shadow of their old selves and you can hardly say South Beach is tearing up things with a successful packed party schedule. 

This does seem a remarkable interpretation of recent licensing if anything, especially in actuality.


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## editor (Dec 1, 2009)

The old Helter Skelter/Tongue and Groove on Atlantic Road has gone forever: it's now a pawnbrokers.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Where is there an increase in late licence properties on Brixton Hill....



I am talking of a period of ten, twenty years.


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

Are you honestly saying that it was quieter 10 years ago? My gawd, that was the era of the Hob and Babushka lock ins, when the Fridge and Mass were popular, when the George IV was packed every weekend with K casualties and when the Telegraph was one of the hottest nightclub pubs in the country.

I'll give you that the White Horse was a more sleepy Irish pub around that time, but the idea that it was quieter 10 years ago seems frankly bizarre.

20 years ago and we're into Canning territory and certainly not what I think as gentle times.


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## netbob (Dec 1, 2009)

timothysutton1 said:


> I think this is just a general indication of how out of control Lambeth Council are. I live off Brixton Hill where we are seeing an increase in late licence premises, much to the annoyance of local residents. However in Brixton town centre they are closing down the pubs. What the hell is going on?



Councils (wrongly imo) lost all their powers for strategic planning years ago. If the market says no-pubs / more pubs thats what we get.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> ...it was quieter 10 years ago?...



... in our street, yes it was.


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## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> you can hardly say South Beach is tearing up things with a successful packed party schedule.



Have you been past there on a Fri/Sat night recently? There is often a queue outside, or people generally, and the first 100m or so of Arodene Road is pretty solidly parked up with cars, with people coming back and forth to them. I can see why people along that bit of road might not be totally happy.

The White Horse is usually open till about 3 or 4 on the weekends and there have been a lot more people standing/sitting outside since the smoking ban came in. Did it once have a later licence than that? I don't remember if it did.

Personally, though, I have no objection to stuff being open late on Brixton Hill because I like the fact that there is stuff going on a convenient five minutes' walk from my house.


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

I've only been in South Beach twice and it was fairly empty. Admittedly it was recently relaunched (with the usual Choice FM djs) and I haven't been since. It looks a little busier recently, at least going on my occasional visits to the bar opposite.

White Horse had a licence till 3 when it first reopened. It is busier and perhaps there are more people outside - the perils of the smoking ban - but it certainly is small fry compared to the how the footfall to the George and Telegraph used to be.

I used to live on Fairmount Road 10 years ago Timothy fwiw, not miles from you - I suspect you're suffering rose tinted memories and nimbyism again.


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## DJWrongspeed (Dec 1, 2009)

editor said:


> The old Helter Skelter/Tongue and Groove on Atlantic Road has gone forever: it's now a pawnbrokers.



well b4 it was a shag / drug broker


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## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> I've only been in South Beach twice and it was fairly empty. Admittedly it was recently relaunched (with the usual Choice FM djs) and I haven't been since. It looks a little busier recently, at least going on my occasional visits to the bar opposite.
> 
> White Horse had a licence till 3 when it first reopened. It is busier and perhaps there are more people outside - the perils of the smoking ban - but it certainly is small fry compared to the how the footfall to the George and Telegraph used to be.
> 
> I used to live on Fairmount Road 10 years ago Timothy fwiw, not miles from you - I suspect you're suffering rose tinted memories and nimbyism again.



South Beach is without doubt busier than it was previously. It seems a significant proportion of its clientele arrive by car, and those cars are parked in the residential streets nearby. I have been thinking recently that it's inevitable there are going to be complaints. Like I say it doesn't bother me but I think people living nearby have legitimate reason to object.


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

Jesus, if residents going to complain about parked cars, then you'd suspect the nearby Ruach ministry was far more of a problem. Much greater capacity and a far greater tendency to pack out every available parking space for hours on end ime.


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## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

I wasn't aware that the Ruach ministry held services in the small hours.

It's not the parked cars themselves - it's the associated coming and going that I can imagine annoying people.


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

See earlier complaints of slamming car doors, clip-clopping heels, double parking and similar about the Ruach on previous threads. Both early and later weekend services as well ime.

South Beach is far from a big venue and I seriously doubt that it massively effects the local area, especially given precedents of much busier venues of the past, including the nearby George IV, Telegraph, Mass and Fridge. All of those are a pale shadow of what they used to be 10 years ago, although thankfully the Fridge seems to be turning the ship around slightly.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> ... South Beach ... I seriously doubt that it massively effects the local area ...



Tell that to the residents who are regularly woken up every weekend by punters shouting in the street and banging their car doors.
I see the Coach and Horses closing as a worrying trend towards late night pubs and clubs opening in residential areas because of easier parking for their customers. This is done with little regard for the local community and limited interference from Lambeth Council.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

Yes but the George and the Telegraph have/had been extant as late-night venues for yonks (and I don't think attracted car-driving clientele on the whole). The Fridge and Mass are in central Brixton where one can only expect activity at night.

The same can't be said about South Beach. Significant amounts of cars and people late at night on nearby residential streets is a New Thing.

It's not something that bothers me, but I can imagine someone living on the relevant bits of Arodene Rd thinking that they didn't expect to be living beside a nightclub carpark when they moved there 10, 5, 3 or even 1 year ago.


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

What other examples of this trend are there then locally Timothy? As far as I can tell licencing restrictions for most of the late night venues near residential areas have got far more restrictive - take the George IV and The Telegraph for example, which no longer open anywhere near the 4-6am hours they were renowned for. See also what's happened to the DofE and numerous others.

Frankly I think you're talking more unbalanced nimby and council score-settling toss wrapped up in alarmist, fact free tones. However, feel free to give those examples.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

Cut the insults please.


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## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

Has the demise of the George and the Telegraph been brought about by increased licensing restrictions, though? I had the impression that it's been more to do with imcompetent management/changes in demand.

My impression is that the White Horse is livelier at  the weekend now than it was 5+ years ago and open later more often too. (For the record, I think this is a good thing)


----------



## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

Where are the examples of this trend then Timothy?

Honestly, insults are one thing, but hysterical inaccuracies and made-up trends are perhaps more pernicious


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

Teuchter - both the George and Telegraph suffered police crackdowns, with the former having to accept some onerous licensing conditions after one stabbing that essentially made it impossible to open as a late night club venue - reduced hours, heavy bouncer presence at all times etc. The Telegraph was mismanaged, but also their licence has been cut (12/1am) to levels which make it hard to see it ever reopening in anywhere near the same format. A real shame for a place which once played host to Rooty and numerous top nights.  I also suspect that SouthSide is struggling to stay afloat, which is some change for a place that was one of Brixton's most consistent late night venues for many a year

The White Horse has got busier imo, but it's far from a large or particularly late opening bar. Same goes for South Beach imo, although at least they're trying something different on the hill with their clientele.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> ... examples of this trend ...



When I moved to this part of Brixton back in the late 1980's there were local pubs, but none had regular late night licences. Now there are four within 5 minutes walk. After hours drinking was in Brixton town centre.


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

Some serious goalpost moving there Timothy.  So we're not going back the 10 years that you talked about earlier, not even 20 years. But now you think going back nigh on 30 years ago helps prove your case and provide an indication of trends and ' a general indication of how out of control Lambeth Council are'.

Clearly you're making this up as you go along. The whiff of desperation is palpable. I've rarely seen someone so severely bend facts and attempt to distort the past so much to suit their agenda of self interest. It's something you're prone to do ime, not least on another thread where you opposed a development close to your road with some bizarre logic.

FWIW I was here 30 years ago too and I wouldn't swap the grimy pubs and their rough clientele of that period for the late night crowd in a million sundays. It certainly wasn't some gentle, peaceful idyll back then either.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> ...It wasn't some gentle, peaceful idyll back then...



Perhaps it wasn't, but keeping the entertainment industry in the town centre seemed to make more sense... which is the point I am trying to make.


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## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

A point somewhat obscured by you talking of 'trends' and implying things about a conspiratorial council out of control.

You see what I mean about misrepresentation and you playing the nimby game? The whiff of dishonesty and score-settling politics gets right on my tits.


----------



## twistedAM (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> A point somewhat obscured by you talking of 'trends' and implying things about a conspiratorial council out of control.
> 
> You see what I mean about misrepresentation and you playing the nimby game? The whiff of dishonesty and score-settling politics gets right on my tits.



Maybe we should just gate that street off and let them have a private security firm.


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## timothysutton1 (Dec 1, 2009)

tarannau said:


> ... council out of control ... nimby game ...



I think it more sensible for late night pubs/clubs to be in the town centre away from residential areas, and I think the council should be doing something about this. That's my opinion and sorry about your tits.


----------



## tarannau (Dec 1, 2009)

So really Tim, despite all the dark talk of trends and council conspiracies this basically comes down to you saying 'not near me' and acting quite the stereotyped, out of proportion NIMBY once again. What a bleeding surprise eh?


----------



## colacubes (Dec 1, 2009)

timothysutton1 said:


> I think it more sensible for late night pubs/clubs to be in the town centre away from residential areas, and I think the council should be doing something about this. That's my opinion and sorry about your tits.




The town centre is a residential area too.


----------



## twistedAM (Dec 1, 2009)

nipsla said:


> The town centre is a residential area too.



It is innit. Residential flats above shops and down every sidestreet...a lot further away from the madding crowd than say a soon-to-be-tree-lined that's already blocked off on one side by an unused bicycle park.

This country is going crazy. My neighbour asked me if it was possible to be quiet after 10 o'clock (ie no doors, toilet flushing, running bath etc). I don't usually get in from work til after midnight so asked her if she'd respect my privacy and not get up til ten in the morning so i don't have to listen to her ablutions.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if you choose to live above Coldharbour lane or the High street, you do so in the knowledge that it is not going to be very quiet on weekend nights (or at any time for that matter). Whereas if you choose to live on one of the streets off Brixton Hill, your expectations are slightly different.

The activity related to South Beach late at night is a new thing (as in, the last few months or so). I have noticed it because I regularly walk past (and up Arodene Rd/Helix Gardens etc) after midnight on the weekend. I don't really know how much disturbance it _actually_ causes because I don't live in one of the houses just there. All I know is that there are cars driving up and down / turning around in the street/ sitting with engines running/headlights on, and a fair number of people coming and going too. It may be that really the level of disturbance is fairly mild but you can't necessarily write off any complaints as NIMBYism or equate it with objecting to toilets being flushed after 10pm.


----------



## colacubes (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if you choose to live above Coldharbour lane or the High street, you do so in the knowledge that it is not going to be very quiet on weekend nights (or at any time for that matter). Whereas if you choose to live on one of the streets off Brixton Hill, your expectations are slightly different.



I couldn't agree more as one such resident.  Just pointing out that there are residents in the Town Centre too (probably a lot more than people think) and although we expect and are perhaps more tolerant of noise, it doesn't necessarily solve the problem of too many late night licensed premises by keeping them all in that area.  Although we should expect more noise we do also have the same right to quiet enjoyment as those who live down the hill.


----------



## twistedAM (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It may be that really the level of disturbance is fairly mild but you can't necessarily write off any complaints as NIMBYism or equate it with objecting to toilets being flushed after 10pm.



True. If the cops had a roving breathalyser unit in the area I think they'd soon quell the amount of traffic. 

i used to drive past a nearby bar and wondered about all the expensive cars parked outside and can't really believe that none of those people go into a bar after midnight and don't have a drink.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

twistedAM said:


> True. If the cops had a roving breathalyser unit in the area I think they'd soon quell the amount of traffic.
> 
> i used to drive past a nearby bar and wondered about all the expensive cars parked outside and can't really believe that none of those people go into a bar after midnight and don't have a drink.



Or make it paid parking and set the traffic wardens on them. That could be entertaining. Doing a bit of wheelclamping would liven things up too.


----------



## twistedAM (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Or make it paid parking and set the traffic wardens on them. That could be entertaining. Doing a bit of wheelclamping would liven things up too.



I bet you'd find there's quite a few parked on double yellow lines anyway and clamping is more fun than ticketing


----------



## teuchter (Dec 9, 2009)

*Getting back to the subject of the thread:*

Has there been any follow-up on this, then?

I walked past earlier today and the signage looked pretty much the same as in Editor's photo in the OP.

The only difference seems to be that the two big signs above the awning may have been lowered slightly. The reason I noticed this was that I noticed that the windowsill to the bay window in the middle of the 1st floor storey has been trashed (as in, half the windowsill knocked off the front). Are there any photos showing the frontage before the signage was put up? Because maybe I am jumping to conclusions but I can't help wondering whether that bit of windowsill was knocked off to allow the sign to sit in front of it, in the hope that no-one would ever notice until the sign was taken down.

Looking more closely it's quite clear that various fixings (for electrical conduit, a timber baton and other things) have been made straight through the green glazed tiles which must be part of the original shopfront and are fairly much irreplaceable (or at least, only rather expensively). It was dark so I couldn't really see much further up but I bet other bits of the frontage have been damaged.

I don't think that Lambeth should be allowed to just brush this off and say it complies... as per Lang Rabbie's link earlier it quite clearly doesn't and they obviously just can't be bothered.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 9, 2009)

well given the emails we, editor and others received from the council, it appears the council think the matter is closed. IIRC they asked the owners to reposition the sign, but i cant see any difference. 

there's a 'before' photo here. 


(i've got before/after pictures on my phone but i cant get the photos off the phone because the software that came with it doesn't work on windows vista )


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2009)

Brixton Hatter said:


> well given the emails we, editor and others received from the council, it appears the council think the matter is closed. IIRC they asked the owners to reposition the sign, but i cant see any difference.
> 
> there's a 'before' photo here.
> 
> ...


That doesn't work.

Here's my 'before' pic:


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 9, 2009)

whoops. Maybe this will work. (I meant before the sign was put up in the first place.)


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2009)

Ah, you mean before the signs went up.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 9, 2009)

yeah teuchter was suggesting they may have removed some of the window sill (which presumbly is listed) to get the sign on there. But it's impossible to tell with the sign still in place.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 9, 2009)

Is that a scan? 

It looks like the bay window sill is trashed, I think *squints*   On the right edge...


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2009)

Pretty sure the building's not listed, you know.


----------



## clandestino (Dec 9, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that if you choose to live above Coldharbour lane or the High street, you do so in the knowledge that it is not going to be very quiet on weekend nights (or at any time for that matter). Whereas if you choose to live on one of the streets off Brixton Hill, your expectations are slightly different.
> 
> The activity related to South Beach late at night is a new thing (as in, the last few months or so). I have noticed it because I regularly walk past (and up Arodene Rd/Helix Gardens etc) after midnight on the weekend. I don't really know how much disturbance it _actually_ causes because I don't live in one of the houses just there. All I know is that there are cars driving up and down / turning around in the street/ sitting with engines running/headlights on, and a fair number of people coming and going too. It may be that really the level of disturbance is fairly mild but you can't necessarily write off any complaints as NIMBYism or equate it with objecting to toilets being flushed after 10pm.



I haven't really followed this debate, but once a month I get a cab past South Beach around 4am, and there's always loads of people on the pavement outside. Maybe it coincides with their chucking out time, but I'm always surprised at just how many people are there at quite a late hour.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 9, 2009)

editor said:


> Pretty sure the building's not listed, you know.


for some reason i thought it was listed - because the old owner was ordered to replace the windows he removed - but you might be right.

It looks fcuking shabby in that pic with all the roadworks!

(might well be a scan - it's off an estate agent's website)


----------



## Onket (Dec 10, 2009)

It does look better now that it's not boarded up, tbf.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 10, 2009)

Brixton Hatter said:


> whoops. Maybe this will work. (I meant before the sign was put up in the first place.)



Cheers - that seems to confirm that the bit of window sill was already trashed at that point so we can't blame that on the putting up of the signs.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 10, 2009)

Brixton Hatter said:


> for some reason i thought it was listed - because the old owner was ordered to replace the windows he removed - but you might be right.
> 
> It looks fcuking shabby in that pic with all the roadworks!
> 
> (might well be a scan - it's off an estate agent's website)



Even if it's not listed, there are conditions on what you can and can't do in a conservation area. And it is in a conservation area.


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2010)

It's coming back! Here's an application by Living Bars Ltd in the window, open from 9-4am...


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2010)

Oh, and Living Bars are registered to:

12 NORTHFIELDS PROSPECT
PUTNEY BRIDGE ROAD
LONDON
SW18 1PE


----------



## Rushy (Jul 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh, and Living Bars are registered to:
> 
> 12 NORTHFIELDS PROSPECT
> PUTNEY BRIDGE ROAD
> ...



Could be wrong but I think the same chap who runs Mass, Stan Chicksand, is behind it. Looking forward to seeing the back of those Lobo signs. 

It is not strictly a change of use - from one meat market to another...


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 6, 2010)

Its not Larry. I think Rushy is correct about who is behind it. 

 The building needs a lot of work on it. So it will be interesting to see what they do.


----------



## matt m (Jul 7, 2010)

So the Living Room never actually got sold then?! I'm confused. 

Seems a bit weird to lease it out to some fishmongers, who then totally transform the downstairs into fishmongers, and then decide to totally transform it back into a bar again. I mean, presumably it got changed into a fishmongers cos it was going nowhere as a bar...


----------



## matt m (Jul 7, 2010)

By the way, can anyone tell me if, where it says "Other regulated entertainment..." after the sentence about "Recorded music" that can mean live music?


----------



## Onket (Jul 7, 2010)

Pole dancing, almost certainly.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

Whatever it is it'll no doubt be over priced compared to the Albert, which means we'll be able to entice folks across the road to a better, cheaper night. But there again, if it's a load of Cla'am rugger shirt oafs on the pull, they can stay where they are.  

I imagine the local dealers will be delighted by the news too. The Living Bah used to be the #1 drug rip off location in Brixton. The sights I saw!


----------



## Onket (Jul 7, 2010)

Some people prefer to pay a little more to drink in surroundings that aran't normally described as 'a shithole' though.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

Onket said:


> Some people prefer to pay a little more to drink in surroundings that aran't normally described as 'a shithole' though.


If they feel they're a cut about the rest in the Living Bah, long may they stay across the road.


----------



## Onket (Jul 7, 2010)

editor said:


> If they feel they're a cut about the rest in the Living Bah, long may they stay across the road.



That's not what I said.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I imagine the local dealers will be delighted by the news too. The Living Bah used to be the #1 drug rip off location in Brixton. The sights I saw!



I forgot about that. 

Its not Larry but I think some people who used to work with him at one point.

Im concerned it will be turned into another noisy night club. It never was a bar when Larry had it as it was always empty except late night Fri,Sat .

Also with the recession some big clubs are going to the wall. Turnmills for example. This really isnt the time to try and run a club. There already enough in Brixton.

People who club on weekends would rather go to Berlin for a couple of nights. No need for hotel as they wont be sleeping.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2010)

Where about on Coldharbour Lane is it?

I lived there for years and don't recognise it. 

Unless it's after where the 35 and the 345 turn off on to Graham Road - then I wouldn't.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 7, 2010)

Next to the Phoenix cafe.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2010)

Gramsci said:


> Next to the Phoenix cafe.





No really.  I lived on Shakespeare Road for years - I always got the bus to the station as I was too lazy to walk.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

Onket said:


> That's not what I said.


So were are these nearby premises that are "normally described as 'a shithole'," then?


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

Read post #198 and then #199.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> Read post #198 and then #199.


I have and they don't answer the question. 

So where are these nearby premises that are "normally described as 'a shithole'," please?


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

You know full well what I'm talking about.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2010)

I think I know what Onket is talking about. Is it the Honest Foods cafe?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 8, 2010)

Pope's Road toilets?

Which I kept reading as the Pope's road toilets. As in the ones he uses when on tour.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> You know full well what I'm talking about.


No. I really don't so please make your point clearly. Where is this nearby "shithole" drinkerie?


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

The.


Waaaaaaaaaitforrit.................



Albert.



Badum Tish.



P.S Yawn (again).


----------



## innit (Jul 8, 2010)

A few weeks ago you thought the Albert was too expensive, you can't have it all ways.


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## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

innit said:


> A few weeks ago you thought the Albert was too expensive, you can't have it all ways.



No, I simply stated that describing it as having a cheap bar, was incorrect. It is a pub with pub prices, I never said it was expensive.

Since then, of course, they have lowered the price of Carling, so one of the drinks they sell is 'cheap', the others are still 'pub priced'.


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## teuchter (Jul 8, 2010)

Was the cost of Carling lowered in response to the bar prices analysis conducted and published here by you, Onket? If so you should be commended for your community-spirited work.


----------



## innit (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> No, I simply stated that describing it as having a cheap bar, was incorrect. It is a pub with pub prices, I never said it was expensive.
> 
> Since then, of course, they have lowered the price of Carling, so one of the drinks they sell is 'cheap', the others are still 'pub priced'.



I am amazed you are so au fait with the bar prices of a "shithole"


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Was the cost of Carling lowered in response to the bar prices analysis conducted and published here by you, Onket? If so you should be commended for your community-spirited work.







innit said:


> I am amazed you are so au fait with the bar prices of a "shithole"



Why?


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> No, I simply stated that describing it as having a cheap bar, was incorrect. It is a pub with pub prices, I never said it was expensive.
> 
> Since then, of course, they have lowered the price of Carling, so one of the drinks they sell is 'cheap', the others are still 'pub priced'.


Exactly where is the Albert - where you can get drinks cheaper than any other comparable live venue in Brixton - "normally described as a shithole," please?

I've read loads of online reviews for the place and they're generally rather positive. A little rough around the edges perhaps, but certainly not a 'shithole' - unless you're some kind of middle class "style-bar" loving yuppy, of course.

Rah rah. Is it all a bit downmarket for Lord Onket?


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Was the cost of Carling lowered in response to the bar prices analysis conducted and published here by you, Onket? If so you should be commended for your community-spirited work.


The drinks prices were already cheaper than any other live venue in the area, and Lord Onket has got the Carling bit wrong as well. 

It's actually Carlsberg, which retails for - IIRC - a measly £2.30. 

So, a cheap bar it is then!


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Exactly where is the Albert - where you can get drinks cheaper than any other comparable live venue in Brixton - "normally described as a shithole," please?
> 
> I've read loads of online reviews for the place and there's generally rather positive. A little rough around the edges perhaps, but certainly not a 'shithole' - unless you're some kid of middle class "style-bar" loving yuppy, of course.



Why are you getting in a tizz about this? The Albert certainly has it's place, there are some good nights on there. One of the beers they sell can now even be described as 'cheap' in price.

This doesn't-

a) Mean that the pub can't also be a shithole.

b) Mean that it can't be described as such by people in Brixton and the surrounding area.

c) Mean that those same people don't also sometimes go there.

It's no slight on you, or the nights you put on there, if that's what you're worried about.


----------



## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

Blimey, listen to the crew in my local and the Albert's often referred to as 'posh,' 'white' or '(f)arty.' There's been a little bit of banter as the summer occasionals venture from there to the bigger beer gardens


It's not a bad balance for a town centre pub ime, although I find it better as a quick meeting point than somewhere I'll linger. Decent prices really - it's not going to match Wetherspoons, but it's one of the cheaper pubs in the area ime.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

editor said:


> The drinks prices were already cheaper than any other live venue in the area, and Lord Onket has got the Carling bit wrong as well.
> 
> It's actually Carlsberg, which retails for - IIRC - a measly £2.30.
> 
> So, a cheap bar it is then!



Apologies for getting the brand name of the piss they sell wrong.

Carlsberg it is, then. You'll pop before you get pissed off that stuff. 

And to clarify, it doesn't make it a cheap bar if one of the drinks they sell is cheap. Obviously.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> Why are you getting in a tizz about this? The Albert certainly has it's place, there are some good nights on there. One of the beers they sell can now even be described as 'cheap' in price.
> 
> This doesn't-
> 
> ...


Don't get your monocle in a twist. 

You said it was "normally described as a shithole."

Can you back that up with some examples please?

Thanks.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Blimey, listen to the crew in my local and the Albert's often referred to as 'posh,' 'white' or '(f)arty.' There's been a little bit of banter as the summer occasionals venture from there to the bigger beer gardens



Well exactly. People in different opinion shocker. Some people on this thread seem to be taking this to heart a bit too much.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> And to clarify, it doesn't make it a cheap bar if one of the drinks they sell is cheap. Obviously.


It makes it a cheap bar if it's cheaper than any other comparable bar in the area though.

Doh!   



Onket said:


> Well exactly. People in different opinion shocker. Some people on this thread seem to be taking this to heart a bit too much.


LOL. I can almost feel your self-pwnage from here.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Don't get your monocle in a twist.
> 
> You said it was "normally described as a shithole."
> 
> ...



Sadly, conversations I have had with people in the past can't (yet) be linked to on the internet. I'm sure you don't need me to point out that that doesn't mean they didn't happen.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> Sadly, conversations I have had with people in the past can't (yet) be linked to on the internet. I'm sure you don't need me to point out that that doesn't mean they didn't happen.


No doubt you've had lots of PMs of support too.

Lol.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

editor said:


> It makes it a cheap bar if it's cheaper than any other comparable bar in the area though.
> 
> Doh!
> 
> LOL. I can almost feel your self-pwnage from here.



You really are confused, aren't you. 

The place is described as a shithole.

One cheap drink does not a cheap bar make.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

editor said:


> No doubt you've had lots of PMs of support too.
> 
> Lol.



You'll have to explain this further. Conversations describing a pub as a shithole are invalid somehow, are they? Everything has to be saved to the internet in some way to make it fact, does it?

Poor you if you you're that baffled by real life.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

Didn't think you had anything of substance to say. You really should stop getting so wound up about stuff that doesn't matter, ed. Here's to the future.


----------



## Spion (Jul 8, 2010)

So many times you make yourself look odd by making allusions that you then take ages to or never back up.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

Spion said:


> So many times you make yourself look odd by making allusions that you then take ages to or never back up.



You can't read, then?


----------



## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

Hold on, do we really need to call  comments about a pub supposedly being a shithole an 'allusion', with a need to back up what people may have said IRL? This is hardly a literary discussion

It's a personal anecdote, no more or less. It's hardly that implausible or worthy of further comment if you ask me.

Christ, some people still comment on the whole of Brixton as if it's some kind of roulette zone of stabbing, mugging and gang warfare.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Hold on, do we really need to call  comments about a pub supposedly being a shithole an 'allusion', with a need to back up what people may have said IRL? This is hardly a literary discussion
> 
> It's a personal anecdote, no more or less. It's hardly that implausible or worthy of further comment if you ask me.



Yep. And as I said earlier-



Onket said:


> Some people on this thread seem to be taking this to heart a bit too much.


----------



## Spion (Jul 8, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Hold on, do we really need to call  comments about a pub supposedly being a shithole an 'allusion', with a need to back up what people may have said IRL?


I meant 'back up' in the sense of provide some supporting argument. Like if you think somewhere's a shithole, say where you mean and say why you think so instead of pussyfooting around. I know you wouldn't


----------



## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

Perhaps. But I don't see why folks should care to a large degree. My local's been described to me negatively many times over the years, from a  'pikey pub,'  to 'a den of inequity for ne'er do wells, scumbags and drug dealers,' 'stabville,' and other charming epithets that make it sound like a more violent version of the Mos Eisley cantina. I'd be hard pressed to remember exactly said what, nor does it really bother me.

Frankly if they're that wrong and quick to judge I don't really give a fuck what they think. All the more bar stools for me.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 8, 2010)

It is a shithole.

I don't mind shithole pubs though.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It is a shithole.
> 
> I don't mind shithole pubs though.



See post #221.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2010)

I've heard my local described as a shithole by some, others love it.

All depends on what you like.

Maybe Onket likes yuppy pubs, most of which I would consider shitholes


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

So then, a couple of pages later, we're still here-



Onket said:


> Some people prefer to pay a little more to drink in surroundings that aran't normally described as 'a shithole' though.


----------



## Onket (Jul 8, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe Onket likes yuppy pubs,



Where have I come even anywhere close to indicating this?!


----------



## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

I pay a premium on my pints and still drink in a shithole


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2010)

Onket said:


> Where have I come even anywhere close to indicating this?!



I don't know where you drink 



tarannau said:


> I pay a premium on my pints and still drink in a shithole



Nowt wrong with that pub.  It's a good shithole.  That's the difference.  There's good shitholes and bad shitholes.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

The Albert is a bit of a shithole....and it smells.

It's always been a bit of a shithole....and it's always been a bit smelly.

The bog is especially shitty and horrible.....and smelly.

The clientele can be a bit grubby at times too.....and smelly.

It's not a bad shithole, and not the worst shithole, it's not the beehive.....and it aint the Hoot, which is a shithole of super grubby standards (had a mouse in a bag of crisps once)


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Nowt wrong with that pub.  It's a good shithole.  That's the difference.  There's good shitholes and bad shitholes.



It's a good, mid-level shithole.....

....If it were a band it'd be Mott the Hoople.


----------



## gabi (Jul 8, 2010)

It's definitely a shithole but im not sure why thats a problem. Keeps the riff raff away.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> The Albert is a bit of a shithole....and it smells.
> 
> It's always been a bit of a shithole....and it's always been a bit smelly.
> 
> ...










Compared to some of the pubs I grew up with, the Albert is a _palace._


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> The Albert is a bit of a shithole....and it smells.
> 
> It's always been a bit of a shithole....and it's always been a bit smelly.
> 
> ...




A mouse crawled into your bag of crisps or it was already there when you opened it?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm intrigued to know which pub Tarranau's 'local' is - the one whose clientel considers to be rougher, blacker and more down-to-earth than the Albert.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> A mouse crawled into your bag of crisps or it was already there when you opened it?








_Luxury._


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Compared to some of the pubs I grew up with, the Albert is a _palace._



Do you think the pubs you grew up with were rougher than Tarannau's local though?

I wonder how Onket's real-life opinion sources would have evaluated them.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> A mouse crawled into your bag of crisps or it was already there when you opened it?



It had eaten it's way in and when they put in on the counter they saw this big hole in the bag and then empty the whole box which the mice had been living in....

...they offered me a free bag....I declined.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Compared to some of the pubs I grew up with, the Albert is a _palace._



Yeah, well you grew up in a real shithole!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I'm intrigued to know which pub Tarranau's 'local' is - the one whose clientel considers to be rougher, blacker and more down-to-earth than the Albert.



The Coalminer's Arms?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> ...they offered me a free bag....I declined.




You're soooooooooooo ungrateful


----------



## co-op (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm not really following the Albert-is-a-shithole thing. It's not a gastro-pub but it sure ain't a dive. The clientele are a real mix too, pretty normal after-office people in there sometimes which you don't get in proper shitholes.


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## gabi (Jul 8, 2010)

Tarannau drinks in hooters. Which as he says is both a shithole AND expensive.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2010)

The last time I took someone to hooters their comment was that it was "studenty".

Not sure if I entirely agree but there you go.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 8, 2010)

It's got the best layout for live music in brixton, it's got a fantastic front yard that catches the sunset, it's got more pool tables than all the other pubs in brixton combined (probably) and it's got el panzon mexican food. Hootananny is a great pub, but with crappy expensive beer.


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## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

teuchter said:


> The last time I took someone to hooters their comment was that it was "studenty".
> 
> Not sure if I entirely agree but there you go.



At times - it fluctuates like all pubs here - but you can also almost guarantee a good, near representative smattering of locals that at all times and a reggae circuit that takes in one of the biggest local promoters, large dedicated crowds and a good reputation. Same goes for other aspects of the musical policy, with a decent latin crew and a bit of World stuff.

The Albert has a (computerised) jukebox and entertainment selection that's perhaps stronger on rock/indie, punk and classics than the average Brixton payload. Other places more discernably cater for different tastes and attract different crowds at times. As I say, it's not a huge factor or meant to imply there's some policy to discourage anyone. This is Brixton after all and I'm happy for the variety. It's a matter of degrees and occasionally perceptions. It's not as though many of the pubs don't share the same clientele at times, or that people don't move between them on a regular basis

I've rarely seen serious violence in either, but there seem to be more regular sporadic outbursts in the Hob despite the occasional massed bouncer crew. From my view, they're rarely more than handbags, but it does seem to have a bit of a reputation to some. Who cares really? Personally I feel utterly safe in both.

The beer, as Crispy suggests, manages to be amongst the most expensive and worst in town.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2010)

I actually don't mind if the beer is a bit more expensive in the Hootenanny seeing as most of the time the live music is free and usually fairly good. It's preferable to cheap beer and a cover charge.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

Beer in the hoot always tastes shit...but I do like to sit and have read in there....with the mice.


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## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

Heh. I did actually see them throwing away the crisps and looking quizically at that corner a fair old while back. I think I might have caught the aftermath of your mouse incident Nanker.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Heh. I did actually see them throwing away the crisps and looking quizically at that corner a fair old while back. I think I might have caught the aftermath of your mouse incident Nanker.



T'was I. Was a time ago.

The mouse shit falling out the crisp box was enough to make me give the free pack a miss.


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## teuchter (Jul 8, 2010)

I remember when the hobgoblin first became the hootananny and tarannau predicted it would result in the fall of civilisation as we know it.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I remember when the hobgoblin first became the hootananny and tarannau predicted it would result in the fall of civilisation as we know it.



Just the collapse of scottish theme pubs.


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## gabi (Jul 8, 2010)

I agree with the old tarannau. At least as the hob the beer was cheap and there weren't batallions of bouncers. The new owners are proper cunts too.


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## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

The whole good thing was that it changed. The bagpipes and fiddles live every night policy failed miserably, sending moaning droves out of the door. The management claims that reggae, electronic music and djs would not be played, that the pool tables would be removed have now passed into history. There's now a drum barbecue, hefty numbers of high profile reggae acts and 3 pool tables. They flexed and bent under the pressure and it's a much better and happier mix now. It's a pub that's resisted change to a large extent, remaining a key football and sunny beer garden fixture. It's a much better balance and fit with the neighbourhood imo


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's got the best layout for live music in brixton, it's got a fantastic front yard that catches the sunset, it's got more pool tables than all the other pubs in brixton combined (probably) and it's got el panzon mexican food. Hootananny is a great pub, but with crappy expensive beer.




George IV used to have most of that


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## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

TBF Gabi, as much as the management misjudged the place at first, they've become a little more tolerant and kept a reasonable balance. It's probably fair to say that the number of bouncers has been imposed on them to a certain extent by new licence conditions - it didn't help that they originally had a nervous seeming staff member who insisted on calling the OB through direct line every day.

They are, however, heavy handed in their want to protect their beer prices and stop cans sneaking in from the neighbourhood shops, the management keen to crackdown. I'm a bit bored of having the pat down and bags searched at weekends - wait till after the country show when they get all arsey about people bringing in Chucklehead remains.


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## tarannau (Jul 8, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> George IV used to have most of that



Most of what? K kids and casualties?

I kinda miss that old scuzzpit and its late night clientele really.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 8, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Most of what? K kids and casualties?
> 
> I kinda miss that old scuzzpit and its late night clientele really.




No, a decent music room and pool tables and outside seating area


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## editor (Jul 9, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I'm intrigued to know which pub Tarranau's  'local' is - the one whose clientel considers to be rougher, blacker and  more down-to-earth than the Albert.


He's talking about _the Hoot?!!!!
_


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## London_Calling (Jul 9, 2010)

the Hoot just needs an extra beer or two to look good!


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 9, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> the Hoot just needs an extra beer or two to look good!



Less mice, better beer, the staff could have a wash occasionally....except that Amy Winehouse girl, she can stay as dirty as she likes. That little girl that looks like a boy, she's funny, she can stay. The hippy in the hat needs to stop singing...the moody trustafarian girl could smile occasionially....her parent's cash can't make her that miserable....erm.....no, they're all alright really and work their bollocks off when there's music on....they've got quicker and better at serving.

a couple of good ciders would be nice.....

I see they've started some kind of mural thing in the front room....is that ever gonna be finished?

When they gonna ditch the newspaper wallpaper?

I do like the hoot more than the gob but never as much as the canning.....I loved the canning.

The albert did soemthing to piss me off last summer, I went in one day and they charged me 50p for a pint of soda water, I went back two days later and was charge £1.50. I complained and the landlord (big baldy fella) just couldn't justify it and said it had gone up, simple as that


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## Ms T (Jul 9, 2010)

The Albert is a shithole, to be fair.  I never go there apart from when Offline is on.  There are much nicer pubs.


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## editor (Jul 9, 2010)

Ms T said:


> The Albert is a shithole, to be fair. I never go there apart from when Offline is on. There are much nicer pubs.


 "Nice" isn't at the top of my list of things I look for in a pub and I'd probably hate some of your "nice" choices.

The Albert is the friendliest, liveliest pubs I've ever been in, and that's the most important thing to me.

And if you think it's a "shithole" then I dread to think how you'd describe some of the pubs I used to go to back home.


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## Ms T (Jul 9, 2010)

editor said:


> "Nice" isn't at the top of my list of things I look for in a pub and I'd probably hate some of your "nice" choices.
> 
> The Albert is the friendliest, liveliest pubs I've ever been in, and that's the most important thing to me.
> 
> And if you think it's a "shithole" then I dread to think how you'd describe some of the pubs I used to go to back home.



You probably would, especially as decent food and wine is one of my top criteria for a pub.  Horses for courses, innit?  

I do really dislike the Albert though, apart from on Offline nights, and a lot of my friends do too.  I don't find it particularly friendly and it's a bit smelly.  The Grosvenor is the better pub by far - shame it's not closer.


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## gabi (Jul 9, 2010)

'Shithole' is obviously a totally subjective term.

It's a dive. But I like it that way.

The biggest 'shithole' if you were to define the word in a negative way I ever had a drink at was Nobu in Mayfair. Full of utter cunts.


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## gabi (Jul 9, 2010)

Ms T said:


> You probably would, especially as decent food and wine is one of my top criteria for a pub.  Horses for courses, innit?
> 
> I do really dislike the Albert though, apart from on Offline nights, and a lot of my friends do too.  I don't find it particularly friendly and it's a bit smelly.  The Grosvenor is the better pub by far - shame it's not closer.



The grosvenor has all the atmosphere of a morgue usually. Nice place to read the sunday papers if u dont want to see any other customers.


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## Kanda (Jul 9, 2010)

Wading through an inch of piss to go to the loo, a toilet cubicle covered in empty wraps and a regularly a broken toilet seat, in an inch of piss....  regardless where you used to drink, it makes it a shithole. I've no problem with drinking there but it's fucking gross in the toilets at times.


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## editor (Jul 9, 2010)

I think you should edit your post kanda, what with this being a public forum and all that.


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## Onket (Jul 9, 2010)

Why?


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## tarannau (Jul 9, 2010)

That could refer to all too many pub toilets in the area to be fair and I doubt it's anything other than common knowledge. The Albert's toilets are possibly amongst the worst locally imo - it doesn't help that they're both so small and near to seating. There's a bit too much poo-waft at times.

I don't find the Albert that friendly to be fair, but the narrowness of the layout doesn't help imo - it's really good if you're in the right part of the 'corridor' with friends, but you can feel a bit stretched out at times. It's also a place where a few pissed goons can have a disproportionately annoying effect - personally I'm happier where I can spread out and table hop a bit more


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 9, 2010)

Most pub bogs are shite to be fair.


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## kyser_soze (Jul 9, 2010)

Hoot/Hob is alright. I can't get on with the Albert - ceilings are too low. I like a nice high ceiling in a pub.

Altho I'm probably more in line with Ms T as to the kind of pubs I really like - decent food, somewhere nice to sit and (soon) good tolerance for babies.


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## RaverDrew (Jul 9, 2010)

The Albert ain't that bad really, but I much prefer The Beehive and the Hoot.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 9, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> The Albert ain't that bad really, but I much prefer The Beehive and the Hoot.



I went in the Beehive the other week to use the bog....I walked in, the stench of sweaty old shakey jakes hit me like a sledgehammer made of shit and I turned and walked away....

...it's a stinky doss-pot.


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## teuchter (Jul 9, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> the kind of pubs I really like - decent food, somewhere nice to sit and (soon) good tolerance for babies.



Arguably, the kind of pubs that aren't really pubs.


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## kyser_soze (Jul 9, 2010)

It is possible for a pub to be clean, tidy and not smell and still be a pub.


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## gabi (Jul 9, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Arguably, the kind of pubs that aren't really pubs.



Mango landin' 

'Breast-feeding bar of the year' 

Your world's about to change kyzer


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## kyser_soze (Jul 9, 2010)

I know 

Altho having to attend pubs in a similar mien to the Florence won't bother me in the slightest.,


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## RaverDrew (Jul 9, 2010)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I went in the Beehive the other week to use the bog....I walked in, the stench of sweaty old shakey jakes hit me like a sledgehammer made of shit and I turned and walked away....
> 
> ...it's a stinky doss-pot.



Keeps the braying, trendy, posers, and yuppies out.

Just good cheap booze, combined with good company is what I look for in a pub.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I know
> 
> Altho having to attend pubs in a similar mien to the Florence won't bother me in the slightest.,


expect your urban cred to sink even lower


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## Onket (Jul 9, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Keeps the braying, trendy, posers, and yuppies out.
> 
> Just good cheap booze, combined with good company is what I look for in a pub.



This^


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## gaijingirl (Jul 9, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I know
> 
> Altho having to attend pubs in a similar mien to the Florence won't bother me in the slightest.,



The Florence is my most loathed pub but since having the baby.. it definitely serves a purpose...   At least they've got really good cider...


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## gabi (Jul 9, 2010)

God I hope I never think it's a good idea to have a baby. The Florence?!


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 9, 2010)

gabi said:


> God I hope I never think it's a good idea to have a baby. The Florence?!



They're clever - they've built a whole building out the back to contain the children in - put a bar in the garden just outside it - so theoretically, you can leave the kids in there to play/watch the plasma screens whilst getting on with it!


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## gabi (Jul 9, 2010)

I'd rather lick the floor of the Albert's toilets clean than have a drink in there...


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## fogbat (Jul 9, 2010)

gabi said:


> I'd rather lick the floor of the Albert's toilets clean than have a drink in there...



Well, I'm afraid you're going to have to make the choice one way or the other. We can't keep waiting.


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## nagapie (Jul 9, 2010)

The Florence also sells decent beer, I don't really see the point in a pub that doesn't.


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## gaijingirl (Jul 9, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Well, I'm afraid you're going to have to make the choice one way or the other. We can't keep waiting.


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## tarannau (Jul 9, 2010)

It's generally served far too cold for ales though. And besides beer's secondary to good atmosphere and company imo, unless you're one of those beardy weirdys


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## quimcunx (Jul 9, 2010)

I've never been in the Florence but  from the posts on here I expect I like it.


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## tarannau (Jul 9, 2010)

Well, you'll almost seem normal sized in the kids area.


It's alright - it's the kind of venue we meet friends with kids in - but more than a little sterile. Food's a bit variable and rip-offy in some places, decent in others.


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## nagapie (Jul 9, 2010)

tarannau said:


> It's alright - it's the kind of venue we meet friends with kids in - but more than a little sterile. Food's a bit variable and rip-offy in some places, decent in others.



Good description. It's certainly not the best pub by a mile. If you want that you have to leave Brixton and go to either Stockwell (Priory Arms) or my personal favourite in Streatham (Earl Ferrers).


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## quimcunx (Jul 9, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Well, you'll almost seem normal sized in the kids area.




  One day we're going to meet, tarannausaurus, and on that day.... !!!!!  on that day you will have some badly bitten ankles. 


It's more that I have little chance of bumping into the likes of you.


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## gaijingirl (Jul 9, 2010)

Decent description.. food can be disappointing, staff can be a bit rubbish.  

I tend to go to the pub with people I like, so good company is not a problem.  My days of spending whole evenings in the pub chatting to all and sundry are over really for the moment (or only occasionally) - on those occasions I wouldn't choose to go there anyway.  Like I say, it serves a purpose.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jul 10, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Keeps the braying, trendy, posers, and yuppies out.



...and me....and I'm none of the above.

I did get barred though....back in 93/4.

Not sure they remember though.


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## Ms T (Jul 10, 2010)

gaijingirl said:


> The Florence is my most loathed pub but since having the baby.. it definitely serves a purpose...   At least they've got really good cider...



And a creche!


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## nagapie (Jul 10, 2010)

Ms T said:


> And a creche!



It's mental that they built this. There's nothing anyone can do about kids in pubs anymore, the UK is breeding!


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## Ms T (Jul 10, 2010)

nagapie said:


> It's mental that they built this. There's nothing anyone can do about kids in pubs anymore, the UK is breeding!




Tbh it's more that people go out a lot more now.  In the seventies when I was growing up my parents very rarely went out at all.  Couldn't afford it. 

A lot of pubs don't allow kids in the evening though, which is right and proper imo.


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## gaijingirl (Jul 10, 2010)

It's also because since the banning of smoking in pubs and with many pubs struggling to keep going, they're having to find other ways of making money.  Whereas in the past pubs didn't need to appeal to families to make money, many are going this route and/or the gastro-pub route to keep going.

(sadly it's not actually a creche - that would be toooo good - but a playroom..  - parents still ultimately have to look after their own kids.)


----------



## nagapie (Jul 10, 2010)

Ms T said:


> Tbh it's more that people go out a lot more now.  In the seventies when I was growing up my parents very rarely went out at all.  Couldn't afford it.
> 
> A lot of pubs don't allow kids in the evening though, which is right and proper imo.



Sure, but the UK is also breeding. Apparently 2008 was the highest birth rate since the 50s post war boom. 

I agree that kids should have to leave in the evening.


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## Ms T (Jul 10, 2010)

gaijingirl said:


> It's also because since the banning of smoking in pubs and with many pubs struggling to keep going, they're having to find other ways of making money.  Whereas in the past pubs didn't need to appeal to families to make money, many are going this route and/or the gastro-pub route to keep going.
> 
> (sadly it's not actually a creche - that would be toooo good - but a playroom..  - parents still ultimately have to look after their own kids.)



I am hoping this means the Prince Regent is relatively child-free at lunchtimes now.


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## gaijingirl (Jul 10, 2010)

Ms T said:


> I am hoping this means the Prince Regent is relatively child-free at lunchtimes now.



'fraid not - that's why they have a child-free zone upstairs.  

I know how much you hate it but unfortunately for those who don't have kids/have a problem with kids HH (in particular) is just awash with them these days.


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## Ms T (Jul 10, 2010)

gaijingirl said:


> 'fraid not - that's why they have a child-free zone upstairs.
> 
> I know how much you hate it but unfortunately for those who don't have kids/have a problem with kids HH (in particular) is just awash with them these days.



I have found the Regent much more mixed recently actually.  The Lido has taken a lot of the strain!


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## gaijingirl (Jul 10, 2010)

Ms T said:


> I have found the Regent much more mixed recently actually.  The Lido has taken a lot of the strain!



Diluted by the Lido.. how apt!


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## Ms T (Jul 10, 2010)

gaijingirl said:


> Diluted by the Lido.. how apt!



A few babies = fine and dandy
15+ babies and toddlers = stressful


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 10, 2010)

Ms T said:


> A few babies = fine and dandy
> 15+ babies and toddlers = stressful



yeah yeah yeah.. I know - having a baby yourself doesn't make it any less stressful.


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2012)

The Living Bar is no more!







http://www.urban75.org/blog/the-living-bar-becomes-the-market-house-brixton/


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## Onket (Apr 13, 2012)

I posted on the other thread about this place.


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2012)

Onket said:


> I posted on the other thread about this place.


What "other thread"?


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## Onket (Apr 13, 2012)

I was just getting a link-

Brixton chitter-chatter & news Apr 2012[/URL]


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 13, 2012)

I think it was even open last weekend, there was a few kids hanging outside but it looked really quiet ...and I went in the albert before I could notice any other details


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I think it was even open last weekend, there was a few kids hanging outside but it looked really quiet ...and I went in the albert before I could notice any other details


I think they had a soft launch, but I'm not sure if they're fully open yet.


----------



## Onket (Apr 13, 2012)

3rd time lucky-

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ter-news-apr-2012.291319/page-5#post-11072973



Onket said:


> It's open? The last time I went past (last week) it didn't look anywhere near being ready to open. They'd just ripped up the old (and perfectly fine) decking and replaced it with some........ more of the same decking.
> 
> What is it about that place that makes people rip the place apart, redecorate and then open up a bar that looks exactly like what was there before? Some sort of money-spunking based business plan? I know it was a fish shop for a bit so the people after that must have had to do _some_ work, but you know what I mean.
> 
> We had a work leaving do in there when it was open last and it didn't look finished at all.


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2012)

Has to be said that they've done a good job on the frontage though. It's really been cleaned up and looks loads better than it did. Decking still looks shit, mind.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 13, 2012)

Good comparison pics on your blog Ed...it does look better now they've sorted the windows out and cleaned all the bird shit off the outside!


----------



## snowy_again (Apr 13, 2012)

A mate was still employed decorating it this week, so I'm not sure when the 'formal' opening is meant to be. Some familiar faces were involved when I spied them this week.


----------



## Onket (Apr 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Has to be said that they've done a good job on the frontage though. It's really been cleaned up and looks loads better than it did. Decking still looks shit, mind.


 
Yeah, it's the same decking!


----------



## ska invita (Apr 13, 2012)

“bring some speakeasy class to a new part of town with emphasis on traditional British with a modern twist. ”
sounds like a hangout for cokeheads.


----------



## Onket (Apr 13, 2012)

A new part of town?!


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2012)

Here's the full, buttock-clenching write up:


> *What they say? *
> Market House Bar in Brixton will open its doors in April 2012 as a new, vibrant must-go-to venue in South London. Set on the grounds of the former Living bar, the new Market House aims to bring some speakeasy class to a new part of town with emphasis on traditional British with a modern twist.
> 
> *What we say?*
> Brixton is rummaging through its vintage dress-up box with the opening of Market House on Coldharbour Lane. With the rising popularity speakeasy boozers popping up across town, Market House aims to bring something new to the table, changing faces from daytime Bistro to late-night bar with a 450 guest capacity. With a British food and drink focus as well as its individual take on shabby chic, the venue is certain to pull in the trendy crowd of SW and could well be on the right track to becoming a new oh-so-cool new bar in London. Bars in Brixton are developing and coming up with a fresh approach to drinking and eating in London and Market House bar should continue that theme.


http://www.designmynight.com/Market-House-Bar-Brixton-London-Bar-Reviews

*Kue Kombat Explosion!


----------



## Onket (Apr 13, 2012)

Good luck to em.

Sounds fucking awful though.


----------



## ajdown (Apr 13, 2012)

Ah yes, "shabby chic" ... that well known theme of weddings... also known as "nothing matches, second hand crap".


----------



## killer b (Apr 13, 2012)

wtf is a 'speakeasy boozer'?


----------



## shakespearegirl (Apr 13, 2012)

That place does sound fucking awful. The trendy crowd of SW?


----------



## Belushi (Apr 13, 2012)

Onket said:


> A new part of town?!


 
Brickers, it's got this fabulous market and real black people.


----------



## colacubes (Apr 13, 2012)

Well it looked busy when I went past just now.  There were a couple of bouncers on the door  Good luck to them though.  I'll have a go at their speakeasy boozer cocktails at some stage


----------



## teuchter (Apr 13, 2012)

editor said:


> The Living Bar is no more!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
They shouldn't have painted the window frames etc white. Doesn't suit a building with that kind of facade. They should be a dark colour.

All they've really done to it is repaint the woodwork isn't it? Oh and a bit of a botch job repair to the projecting sill of the bay window upstairs.


----------



## pachamama (Apr 14, 2012)

Just to clarify






_Yeah, it's the same decking!_
No it's new decking which we are gonna stain darker and less er.. deck like and sort the fencing out/railings out. Plus an awning with some picnic type tables to seat outside.

_“bring some speakeasy class to a new part of town with emphasis on traditional British with a modern twist. ”_
_sounds like a hangout for cokeheads_
Sorry completely miss your connection between coke heads and traditional British/modern twist, and we didn't write the quote - have not sent a press release yet!

_Good luck to em._
_Sounds fucking awful though._

I would never base a venue on one write up, again we did not write it, come down and have an ale from one of our local beer suppliers.

Ah yes, "shabby chic" ... that well known theme of weddings... also known as "nothing matches, second hand crap".
Again... did not do the write up and haven't sent a press release yet, shabby chic it is not but I have no adversity to that style if executed correctly. The bar is fronted with American ceiling tiles we imported from America direct from manufacturer, the majority of tables and chairs are standard from a second hand pub supplier, we got some original sixties (decent) furniture in there, some gaudy lamp shades which might or may not be to peoples taste and a few other bits like a sixties dentist waiting room bench and a few other things here and there, so yeah nothing matches but certainly not second hand crap. Still more to fit but very much at soft launch stage for now. Oh.. we have a decent sound in there rather than a couple of yoghurt cartons and a piece of string. 

wtf is a 'speakeasy boozer'?
As well as being a term used in the prohibition days, it is now generally regarded as a style - wiki it. 

That place does sound fucking awful. The trendy crowd of SW?
I would like you to come and see for yourself rather than a futile statement without any weight, if you don't like it thereafter then all good, FYI owned by 2 decade generation Brixtonians (if that should be important to anyone), frequented by Brixtonians and their friends.. all welcome. Not sure what trendy is but pretty sure I would not fit under the 'trendy' umbrella. 

All they've really done to it is repaint the woodwork isn't it? Oh and a bit of a botch job repair to the projecting sill of the bay window upstairs.​To clarify, we completely cleaned the the front and side brickwork, jet washed and acid treated the stonework, fix drainage issues, cleaned out a ton of pigeon shit in the roof, restored the window frames, changed cracked glass, fixed the of holes in the brickwork made by the meat shop prior, repointed. Inside we retreated the floor, stopped the womens toilets upstairs from collapsing through the bar (which it did but then er.. fixed it), renovated the ladies toilets downstairs, (mens still terrible but will be fixed soon), moved the bar back as it was too imposing, installed a victorian back bar... and then some. A lot of blood, sweat and tears I'm sure your can appreciate. We are still working on the 'botch job' repair on the sill but it is 100 times better than it was before. ​​Guys, the point I suppose I am trying to make is we are not intending this pub, whatever description it gets from the press, to be a poncy new bar. We want it to be a decent boozer with a load of decent beers/ales/ciders and alike. The food is supplied by local traders and meats come from reputable sources. Some of the partners are from Satay Bar who have a long and decent history. Some are involved from the Ritzy days before Clapham Picture House, others have businesses in Brixton for decades and felt there was a gap in the market for a Bistro type pub with some decent music to boot. We would certainly not consider ourselves as experts but neither fly by nights. This is an independent business attempting to champion the left of centre while trying to be accessible to anyone interested in frequenting. We are not handbag house neither Monogolian throat singers. We have a load of exciting opportunities for upstairs (currently being renovated), featuring live, film, seminars, comedy and decent club nights that do not consist of four to the floor monotony.​​There's always going to be haters out there but before some of you start going down that route, drop in and see if you can enjoy a decent pint, even if the decor might be too stylised for some or not enough for others. ​​Oh and BTW, we are not affiliated in anyway with the previous Living owner Larry. ​ 



My response is purely meant to enlighten somewhat.
​Onwards and upwards.​(sorry about any grammar/spelling and formatting - late night)​​edited to try and reformat for an easier read.​


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## Belushi (Apr 14, 2012)

Fair play for coming on here, I will drop by at some point soon.


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## lizzieloo (Apr 14, 2012)

killer b said:


> wtf is a 'speakeasy boozer'?


 
A bit disturbing


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## Belushi (Apr 14, 2012)

I'm hoping it's gonna be like Fat Sam's


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## editor (Apr 14, 2012)

teuchter said:


> All they've really done to it is repaint the woodwork isn't it? Oh and a bit of a botch job repair to the projecting sill of the bay window upstairs.


They've cleaned the brickwork for starters and made the façade look an awful lot nicer.


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## Onket (Apr 14, 2012)

pachamama said:


> Blurb


 
I still don't particularly see the point of doing somewhere up pretty much as it was before*. As I said in my previous post that you've not quoted- Yes it's new decking (*for example) but it's exactly the same as the decking that you ripped up. You could have stained that!

But fair play for responding. And as I said, good luck to ya. I'll certainly come in for an ale or two at some point, although it doesn't sound like my place at all.


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## 5t3IIa (Apr 14, 2012)

Perhaps the old decking smelt of fish? 

There are pubs one tries and likes because of, or despite of, their decoration. The Albert has close on 0 in term of style but I love it because of the people and the atmos. 

Finding or being introduced to a brilliant boozer is one thing but being dictated to about how you're going to LOVE IT by the owners* is quite different.  That's the peril of a new or refurbed place and that's just unfortunate for that site - it hasn't been the same boozer since 1849.

* I don't mean pachamama specifically


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## DJWrongspeed (Apr 14, 2012)

It's all economics.  What's sad about London is the desperation needed to make any pub work these days. A bar/pub can't just 'be' it has to 'be something.'


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## lang rabbie (Apr 14, 2012)

teuchter said:


> They shouldn't have painted the window frames etc white. Doesn't suit a building with that kind of facade. They should be a dark colour.


 
What teuchter said


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## B-Town (Apr 15, 2012)

I had a good beer in here with friends the other night, great place, if a little quiet. I urge people to pop in for a beer, we should support the local business who have sorted out a decent building. Plus, great place after the satay happy hour has finished.


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## Badgers (Apr 15, 2012)

B-Town said:
			
		

> I had a good beer in here with friends the other night, great place, if a little quiet. I urge people to pop in for a beer, we should support the local business who have sorted out a decent building. Plus, great place after the satay happy hour has finished.



But the decking?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 15, 2012)

B-Town said:


> I had a good beer in here with friends the other night, great place, if a little quiet. I urge people to pop in for a beer, we should support the local business who have sorted out a decent building. Plus, great place after the satay happy hour has finished.


what beer did you have?


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## RaverDrew (Apr 16, 2012)

I always welcome new boozers opening up in Brixton that I'm not barred from


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 16, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I always welcome new boozers opening up in Brixton that I'm not barred from


 
Do you find there are new boozers opening up that you are barred from?


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## RaverDrew (Apr 16, 2012)

only the once


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## Belushi (Apr 16, 2012)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Do you find there are new boozers opening up that you are barred from?


 
Words got round


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## editor (Apr 16, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> what beer did you have?


And, crucially, how much did it cost?

I'm all for supporting new bars but I'm not into paying Nu-Brixton/Brickers prices.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

seeing as it's a "must-go-to venue" in a "new part of town" I guess I have to go there 

I'll certainly check it out...I'd rather this old boozer was actually being used for something than sitting derelict.



> Bars in Brixton are developing and coming up with a fresh approach to drinking and eating in London and Market House bar should continue that theme.


So what's this fresh approach to "eating and drinking" then?


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## Onket (Apr 16, 2012)

Badgers said:


> But the decking?


 
It's the same decking.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's the full, buttock-clenching write up:


 


> *What they say? *
> Market House Bar in Brixton will open its doors in April 2012 as a new, vibrant must-go-to venue in South London. Set on the grounds of the former Living bar, the new Market House aims to bring some speakeasy class to a new part of town with emphasis on traditional British with a modern twist.
> 
> *What we say?*
> Brixton is rummaging through its vintage dress-up box with the opening of Market House on Coldharbour Lane. With the rising popularity speakeasy boozers popping up across town, Market House aims to bring something new to the table, changing faces from daytime Bistro to late-night bar with a 450 guest capacity. With a British food and drink focus as well as its individual take on shabby chic, the venue is certain to pull in the trendy crowd of SW and could well be on the right track to becoming a new oh-so-cool new bar in London. Bars in Brixton are developing and coming up with a fresh approach to drinking and eating in London and Market House bar should continue that theme.


 

To be fair, I don't think you really need pretentious marketing guff to get people interested in your new pub - simply promising to serve up decent beer and cider seems to do the trick.


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## Onket (May 8, 2012)

Still not open at lunchtime and they are still finishing the decorating. Today they were painting the door surround.


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## Kanda (May 8, 2012)

Popped in there after the cinema on Sunday night, didn't hang around though. Was very busy so I couldn't be arsed to queue at the bar...


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## Onket (May 8, 2012)

How many people were serving?


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## Kanda (May 8, 2012)

Onket said:


> How many people were serving?


 
One that couldn't work the till. Had to be more around though, it was very busy.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 9, 2012)

"grand opening" tomorrow night - complete with "tropical deejays and live!" (sic) ["live" what???]

http://www.market-house.co.uk/


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## Kanda (May 9, 2012)

Anyone going?


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## Crispy (May 9, 2012)

I might poke my head round the door on the way home.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 9, 2012)

Probably not. Nothing really ever made me want to go in there in the past and I'm not sure that'll change now. I might go in for a pint out of curiosity sometime soon....if they do pints, that is.


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## colacubes (May 9, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Probably not. Nothing really ever made me want to go in there in the past and I'm not sure that'll change now. I might go in for a pint out of curiosity sometime soon....if they do pints, that is.


 
Same here.  I should check it out but it just seems a bit meh to me.


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## Brixton Hatter (May 9, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Same here. I should check it out but it just seems a bit meh to me.


Agreed.

Ages ago when Isobar or whatever it was called first opened (1999?) we used to go in there after the cinema late on Monday nights cos it was one of the the few places open to get a beer at midnight. I've probably been in no more than half a dozen times since. Since then, it's never been a pub as such, always a bar - and always seemed to rely on the casual weekend crowd for business, rather than doing anything particularly interesting or unique.


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## Onket (May 10, 2012)

I will go in there at lunchtime, if it ever opens then.


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## Onket (May 11, 2012)

Anyone go last night?


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## Kanda (May 11, 2012)

Nah, forgot.


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## Onket (May 11, 2012)




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## RaverDrew (May 11, 2012)

I dropped in there but didn't stay for long. Not my kinda thing tbh. Too hot and sweaty, too noisy, and too Clapham. Did seem slightly better than previous incarnations though, and I'm willing to give it another chance on a more full-on evening (I'd only popped out for a quick, quiet pint really).


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## Onket (May 11, 2012)

Did you notice what ales they had on?


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## RaverDrew (May 11, 2012)

nope sorry


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## Chilavert (May 11, 2012)

But they do do pints?


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## Onket (May 11, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> nope sorry


 
You are fucking useless, Drew.

Tut.

Etc.


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## Greebo (May 11, 2012)

Onket said:


> You are fucking useless, Drew.<snip>


There's only one thing for it, you'll have to go there yourself.  Purely for research purposes, you understand.


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## Onket (May 11, 2012)

Well, yeah. But I've been waiting weeks for the m to open at lunchtime.


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## Onket (May 11, 2012)

Guess what- Closed!

And STILL decorating.


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## RaverDrew (May 11, 2012)

Onket said:


> You are fucking useless, Drew.
> 
> Tut.
> 
> Etc.


 
Apologies, I'm a cider drinker, I prefer not to consume these ale liquids which taste like old dishwater.

Anyway, I queued at the bar for an Aspall's only to find out it was off. I then pondered on purchasing an alternative beverage, but by this point I'd only been in there a few mins and was already feeling very uncomfortable at the heat and thickness of the air in there (and it's not like it was even that mega-rammed at the time) better ventilation is needed for sure.


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## teuchter (May 11, 2012)

Onket said:


> Well, yeah. But I've been waiting weeks for the m to open at lunchtime.


 
I've not heard of the m. Is it a cool new bar?


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## Onket (May 12, 2012)

Probably.


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## pachamama (May 12, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Probably not. Nothing really ever made me want to go in there in the past and I'm not sure that'll change now. I might go in for a pint out of curiosity sometime soon....if they do pints, that is.


 
We do pints - will change from time to time just to keep things varied

Currently (from memory not there at the moment, excuse spelling):

*Draught*
Meantime London Larger
Meantime Pale Ale
Another Pale Ale which is currently being fitted - can't remember name
Sagres
Amstel
Heineken
Guiness
Budvar
Tiger
Aspall Cyder
Another Cider which is currently being fitted, can't remember name

*Bottles*
Freedom Organic
Saint
Meantime Pilsner
Meantime Wheat
Meantime Raspberry (Wheat Raspberry)
Meantime Ale
Meantime London Lager
Juremiah Weed (3 types from memory)
Banana Bread
Morretti
Dos Equis
Becks
Pilsner
Sol
Corona
Bulmers Original
Bulmers Reserve
Bulmers 17
Wyld Wood Organic Cyder

Thats from memory sure I have missed a few. 




RaverDrew said:


> I dropped in there but didn't stay for long. Not my kinda thing tbh. Too hot and sweaty, too noisy, and too Clapham. Did seem slightly better than previous incarnations though, and I'm willing to give it another chance on a more full-on evening (I'd only popped out for a quick, quiet pint really).


 
Sigh... Opening night was indeed very busy with a one in one out at times for crowd control. We had a live band Eri Okan from Brixton and 3 deejays; dj Cliffy (Batmacumba) longest running Brazilian night in London, Russ Jones (Arriba La Cumbia - Hootananny and around town), Movimentos (the one with the cowbell Mike) who are probably the leaders in championing film, art and music from South America. Hot, loud and sweaty, damn right. Free cocktails and food - enjoy? I am not sure what a bit Clapham means, well I can assume that you mean poncy, but we don't cherry pick, all welcome. I did personally see (and invite) a lot of heads from Loughborough Hotel days aka Mambo Inn and a lot of Brixton heads too. So think is was a mix up, or dare I say it a bit Brixton too.





Onket said:


> Well, yeah. But I've been waiting weeks for the m to open at lunchtime.


 
I am not sure when we said we would be opening for lunchtimes but we've only been open 3 weeks and of course we are as eager (possibly more ) to extend our opening times so we can offer a lunchtime bite to eat or drink. I *can* say we are open for lunchtime roasts on Sunday from 1:00pm - Chicken, Beef, Pork for now with veg option coming. 




Onket said:


> Guess what- Closed!


 
It's an organic process, including opening times, decoration, illustrations, pictures and memorabilia of Brixton and the friggin decking! 

Your Brixton, maybe, maybe not. For the record, and to anyone who feels it's pertinent, some of us have been operating in Brixton for over 4 decades now, possibly before some of you were born, can we call anyone who was not around at that time nu-Brixton?

Onwards and upwards.


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## bosie (May 12, 2012)

> For the record, and to anyone who feels it's pertinent, some of us have been operating in Brixton for over 4 decades now, possibly before some of you were born, can we call anyone who was not around at that time nu-Brixton?


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## Onket (May 12, 2012)

pachamama said:


> I am not sure when we said we would be opening for lunchtimes but we've only been open 3 weeks and of course we are as eager (possibly more ) to extend our opening times so we can offer a lunchtime bite to eat or drink. I *can* say we are open for lunchtime roasts on Sunday from 1:00pm - Chicken, Beef, Pork for now with veg option coming.
> 
> 
> 
> It's an organic process, including opening times, decoration, illustrations, pictures and memorabilia of Brixton and the friggin decking!


 
You've been advertising your lunchtime food deals for approx 3 weeks but not been open at lunchtime to sell them. Just saying.

Shame you've only got one actual ale on draught (which you can't remember), but looks like good work on the beer menu, especially the choices on draught. I reckon that Meantime stuff is overrated myself, but it is pretty fashionable at the moment.


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## CH1 (May 15, 2012)

pachamama said:


> Meantime London Larger
> Meantime Pale Ale


They have that at the Festival Hall. Very expensive - but at least it's locally made (in Greenwich)


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## editor (May 15, 2012)

I didn't really enjoy my brief visit before, but I'll definitely give it another go. I guess it's never really fair to judge a place when you've arrived during the tail end of its opening night.


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## Ricky S (Jul 23, 2017)

I used to drink in here round about 1986/87 Does anyone remember the Landlady ? We called her Miss Ruby, great shame good old pub


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## editor (Jul 24, 2017)

Ricky S said:


> I used to drink in here round about 1986/87 Does anyone remember the Landlady ? We called her Miss Ruby, great shame good old pub


I do remember her but it has to be said that the beer was a bit ropey at times!

And an update to anyone coming across this thread: the building is now the very popular Market House bar/club.


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## teuchter (Jul 24, 2017)

Vider said:


> Can remember that road about 8-10 years (haven't been there at night for a while) or ago being buzzing on a Friday Sat night. Really, really buzzing with revellers or people just enjoying the evening.
> 
> Would be a *damn shame* if CHL morphed into the usual chicken shops, nail bars, money exchange etc.



I'm just quoting this post from 2009 for historical interest. How things have changed.


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