# Android Pay comes to the UK with Transport for London support



## editor (May 18, 2016)

Android Pay has launched in the UK today with support for Visa or Mastercard debit or credit cards from a variety of supported banks including Bank of Scotland, First Direct, Halifax, HSBC, Lloyds Bank, M&S Bank, MBNA and Nationwide Building Society. But not Barclays. The twats.



> Barclays said earlier this week that it is “not planning on participating in Android Pay in the UK.” The bank just launched its own contactless payment app (which is available on Android) that allows a user to make payments of £30 with just a tap of their phone, and payments of £30 and £100 with a tap and a PIN entry.
> 
> Android Pay comes to the UK with Transport for London support


Android Pay vs Apple Pay: How do they compare?
3 ways Google's Android Pay is better than Apple Pay


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

I'll be testing this later. 

Currently a bit confused. My contactless card is set up on tfl anyway. android pay is the same card. Android Pay reads like I need to explicitly add the android pay card but.... 


and my credit card isn't supported which is a shame as I would like cashback on travel.


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## oneflewover (May 18, 2016)

Went straight through with Halifax, just needed my Online PW. Testing in Wetherspoons later.


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## BoxRoom (May 18, 2016)

I haven't got a new enough phone and it doesn't look like my bank's on the list anyway.
Damn


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## PursuedByBears (May 18, 2016)

I've set up my debit card and my back-up credit card, but my main credit card (that I get cashback for using) isn't supported.


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

It's all positive news of course, but given a lot of major retailers here still don't even accept contactless transactions on contactless enabled credit cards I suspect it's going to be very slow to mature, this tech.

Also, given you still have to physically hold something to place something on the card reader and then authorise with a passcode/fingerID it doesn't seem like a massive convenience over using a contactless card - especially when they have with no extra security level to complete. There are other reasons also why I'd prefer to keep using an Oyster card too on TFL (eg. for non PAYG travel cards, and for receiving TFL statements via email etc).

What would be more convenient, is when in the future as smart watches evolve we could get to a point where payment cards could be loaded onto them and they would act intelligently. E.g. you could load an Oyster card onto it, and it would just know to debit that one on the TFL network. Then when you're in shops, you'd have a default credit/debit card to make all transactions on which would require no more than holding up your wrist. If they could integrate all the boots/netctar/waitrose loyalty cards in with it too, then that would be even better.

I'm all for the tech, but it has to add significantly more in convenience factor.


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## fen_boy (May 18, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's all positive news of course, but given a lot of major retailers here still don't even accept contactless transactions on contactless enabled credit cards I suspect it's going to be very slow to mature, this tech.
> 
> Also, given you still have to physically hold something to place something on the card reader and then authorise with a passcode/fingerID it doesn't seem like a massive convenience over using a contactless card - especially when they have with no extra security level to complete. There are other reasons also why I'd prefer to keep using an Oyster card too on TFL (eg. for non PAYG travel cards, and for receiving TFL statements via email etc).
> 
> ...



Have you tried it? I thought you didn't need to authorise unless it was over a certain amount?


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

I haven't but my understanding is you still have to use some kind of interaction with the phone to 'pay' don't you, like selecting the card, and doing the ID/unlock? We're not yet at the point of whipping the phone out and holding it over the reader to complete the payment with a default card right?


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I haven't but my understanding is you still have to use some kind of interaction with the phone to 'pay' don't you, like selecting the card, and doing the ID/unlock? We're not yet at the point of whipping the phone out and holding it over the reader to complete the payment with a default card right?


Yes, we are! Android Pay Debuts in the UK, no need to unlock device when you tap for sales under £30



> Apple Pay has had a head start in the UK, launching in July 2015, but Apple’s mobile wallet includes an extra step to work. It requires users to authenticate the transaction on an iPhone by logging in with TouchID at the point of sale. That might sound sensible if you’re a risk-averse consumer or retailer; but fiddly and time-eating if you’re someone who is always looking for ways to do things quicker.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2016)

The idea that using the fingerprint reader on an iPhone is "fiddly" is laughable.

You double click the button. That's it.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The idea that using the fingerprint reader on an iPhone is "fiddly" is laughable.
> 
> You double click the button. That's it.


But it's still one extra double clicking that you don't need to do on Android.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

I'd prefer to have to use my fingerprint I think. I'm holding my phone in my hand anyway.


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

So how does it know which card you want to use for the under £30 transactions? Do you just select a default card before?

It's a shame they don't let you use American Express, as that would be my default card.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

let's not get all iphone v android tho please. It's boring.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> So how does it know which card you want to use for the under £30 transactions? Do you just select a default card before?
> 
> It's a shame they don't let you use American Express, as that would be my default card.


Yeah. you have a default. top of the list or whatever - I can only use one of my cards so I dunno in actuals.


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

wtfftw said:


> Yeah. you have a default. top of the list or whatever - I can only use one of my cards so I dunno in actuals.



That's really useful.

So all they need to do now then is figure out a way of integrating an Oyster card, and store loyalty cards, and opening it up to American Express cards, and getting more than a handful of stores to accept Android Pay and then they're onto something.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

wtfftw said:


> I'd prefer to have to use my fingerprint I think. I'm holding my phone in my hand anyway.


That's your choice.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

Samsung Pay seems to be proving a hit and it has a handy trick up its sleeve not seen on Apple or Android: 


> When Samsung Pay launched in the summer of 2015, it had a major advantage over other mobile wallets: In addition to NFC technology for payments, it was compatible magnetic strip readers, meaning it works anywhere that accepts credit cards. (You’ve probably seen the Samsung Pay commercial featuring comedian Hannibal Buress, who shows skeptical Katz’s Delicatessen workers that Samsung pay works wherever credit cards are accepted, including the landmark New York City deli.) Samsung Pay is also available in South Korea and China, with plans to launch in Australia, the U.K., Canada, Singapore, Brazil, and Spain.
> 
> A guide to Apple Pay and its fiercest competitors


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## Fez909 (May 18, 2016)

Just downloaded this.

It detected my card from my Google wallet account and asked if I want to use that, and if I want to add another. I said to use that.

I put in the expiry date and CCV and it asked me if I want to use this as my default payment method. I hadn't realised the HSBC app I had installed allowed me to make payments, and wouldn't know how it works anyway, so I switched the default from HSBC to Android Pay.

Then it said if I want to pay, I just have to wake the phone (not unlock it) and wave it at the contactless thing. That's it. Took 2 mins, and sounds easy. 

I'll probably just use my card our of habit, but it'll be handy for when I've forgotten my card - I almost never forget my phone


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## Fez909 (May 18, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> That's really useful.
> 
> So all they need to do now then is figure out a way of integrating an Oyster card, and store loyalty cards, and opening it up to American Express cards, and getting more than a handful of stores to accept Android Pay and then they're onto something.


Any shop that takes contactless takes Android Pay. It's not a handful, it's loads.


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## dervish (May 18, 2016)

Put it on my phone earlier and tried it out in KFC at lunch. It worked really well, everything from the setup to actually using it were all amazingly easy. It used the details from cards I had given it before and just asked me to verify which took seconds, then it was ready to use. 



skyscraper101 said:


> I haven't but my understanding is you still have to use some kind of interaction with the phone to 'pay' don't you, like selecting the card, and doing the ID/unlock? We're not yet at the point of whipping the phone out and holding it over the reader to complete the payment with a default card right?



The phone only has to be unlocked, just touch it on the terminal and it's done. You choose the default card beforehand.



skyscraper101 said:


> That's really useful.
> 
> So all they need to do now then is figure out a way of integrating an Oyster card, and store loyalty cards, and opening it up to American Express cards, and getting more than a handful of stores to accept Android Pay and then they're onto something.



I think it supports payment to TFL using pay-by-bonk which is basically the same isn't it? It already supports loyalty cards, I have my nectar card on it. I've found that most of the convenience stores already accept it, it will take off rapidly because now everyone with an iphone, recent credit/debit card or android will be able to use it.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

dervish said:


> I've found that most of the convenience stores already accept it, it will take off rapidly because now everyone with an iphone, recent credit/debit card or android will be able to use it.


Unless you're with fucking Barclays


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

dervish said:


> The phone only has to be unlocked, just touch it on the terminal and it's done. You choose the default card beforehand.



So you do have to unlock your phone? I thought there was no interaction needed under £30?



dervish said:


> I think it supports payment to TFL using pay-by-bonk which is basically the same isn't it? It already supports loyalty cards, I have my nectar card on it. I've found that most of the convenience stores already accept it, it will take off rapidly because now everyone with an iphone, recent credit/debit card or android will be able to use it.


If you mean pay-as-you-go, unless I'm mistaken it's just paying TFL via a bank or credit card - so you don't get to load on your travelcard or freedom pass and it doesn't go through your Oyster account which means I won't have the journey history sent to me on a monthly statement.


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

Fez909 said:


> Any shop that takes contactless takes Android Pay. It's not a handful, it's loads.



Ah ok, so I guess all that remains then they just need to open it up to Amex, integrate Oyster and store loyalty cards. And Sainsburys need to get with the contactless paying too (they're still not on board).


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

dervish said:


> Put it on my phone earlier and tried it out in KFC at lunch. It worked really well, everything from the setup to actually using it were all amazingly easy. It used the details from cards I had given it before and just asked me to verify which took seconds, then it was ready to use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How've you added your nectar card?


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## dervish (May 18, 2016)

wtfftw said:


> How've you added your nectar card?


Add loyalty card, scan the barcode and it's on the phone, not sure how I actually use it though


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## kropotkin (May 18, 2016)

Argh. Been waiting ages for this but I can't use it as I'm rooted. I expect there will be a workaround at some point,  but everything I tried today failed. Balls.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

dervish said:


> Add loyalty card, scan the barcode and it's on the phone, not sure how I actually use it though


oh durr! thanks. I've added superdrug, morrisons, nectar, and waitrose.


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

So wait, what... you can add loyalty cards, and pay without an interaction?? Or do you still have to unlock your phone? Does it just know which loyalty card to use? How does it work when they ask if you have a netctar/boots card etc? D you have to show it them on the phone?


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

all good questions.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

you have to show them.
Your loyalty cards - Android Pay Help


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## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2016)

Ahh, ok. So its not quite the wave and go convenience I'd hoped for.

There's still quite a lot of arsing around with unlocking and loading the app and swiping to find your designated loyalty cards. Still useful if you want to free up some space in your wallet I guess.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Ahh, ok. So its not quite the wave and go convenience I'd hoped for.
> 
> There's still quite a lot of arsing around with unlocking and loading the app and swiping to find your designated loyalty cards. Still useful if you want to free up some space in your wallet I guess.


Nowhere near perfect yet, but it's still got to be better than having to shuffle a pack of loyalty cards about.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

I just need my phone to open my front door now.


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## fen_boy (May 18, 2016)

Just tried it on the vending machine at work - didn't work.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2016)

editor said:


> But it's still one extra double clicking that you don't need to do on Android.


If all you have to do is wave the phone without doing anything  else how is it secure


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## dervish (May 18, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If all you have to do is wave the phone without doing anything  else how is it secure


It's just as secure as the contactless cards in your wallet. You just have to touch them to the terminal, same principle.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

dervish said:


> It's just as secure as the contactless cards in your wallet. You just have to touch them to the terminal, same principle.


Exactly. It's no different at all.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

Except something about android pay storing your card details and generating different stuff for transactions so that retailers or nefarious can only do one transaction.
Or something.


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## fen_boy (May 18, 2016)

Hmm, didn't even recognise my phone in waitrose.

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

And now I've bought a pint.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 18, 2016)

editor said:


> Unless you're with fucking Barclays



They have their own app


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 18, 2016)

I might start using loyalty cards if it's all rolled in!


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2016)

dervish said:


> It's just as secure as the contactless cards in your wallet. You just have to touch them to the terminal, same principle.


Ah right, so if your phone is nicked people could use it?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 18, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Ah right, so if your phone is nicked people could use it?



If you don't wipe it. I'd probably notice my phone was missing sooner than my bank card.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Ah right, so if your phone is nicked people could use it?


It's no different to when contactless cards get stolen and, just like the cards, you can cancel them immediately and not be charged by your bank. I've used a contactless card for years without working myself into a state of fear about it getting stolen. How about you?


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> They have their own app


Not yet they haven't.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 18, 2016)

editor said:


> Not yet they haven't.



Oh. I got one for my Barclaycard a while back, meaning it was the first to be able to pay with android. I assumed Barclays would have it as well.


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Oh. I got one for my Barclaycard a while back, meaning it was the first to be able to pay with android. I assumed Barclays would have it as well.


Nope 

In fact, I spoke to them today about it: Android Pay contacless service comes to the UK – but not for Barclays customers


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2016)

editor said:


> It's no different to when contactless cards get stolen and, just like the cards, you can cancel them immediately and not be charged by your bank. I've used a contactless card for years without working myself into a state of fear about it getting stolen. How about you?


I'm not worried as such, just surprised at the way they've done it. The whole point of Apple Pay for me is that it's both more convinient _and_ more secure than a card. Just seems odd that Google haven't done the same.


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## keybored (May 18, 2016)

kropotkin said:


> I expect there will be a workaround at some point



Un-root it?


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## oneflewover (May 18, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Ah right, so if your phone is nicked people could use it?


You cannot install the application unless your phone has a screen lock active. If you choose to leave your phone unlocked, well...


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

editor said:


> It's no different to when contactless cards get stolen and, just like the cards, you can cancel them immediately and not be charged by your bank. I've used a contactless card for years without working myself into a state of fear about it getting stolen. How about you?


There's the basic protection of having your screen locked. You have to unlock your screen to use it. Android Pay Requires You to Enable a Secure Lock Screen | Droid Life


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

They both require the correct user and use a 'virtual card' so more secure than an actual contactless card.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 18, 2016)

wtfftw said:


> There's the basic protection of having your screen locked. You have to unlock your screen to use it. Android Pay Requires You to Enable a Secure Lock Screen | Droid Life



You can still do small transactions without no?


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## editor (May 18, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm not worried as such, just surprised at the way they've done it. The whole point of Apple Pay for me is that it's both more convinient _and_ more secure than a card. Just seems odd that Google haven't done the same.


Amount of security problems I've had with my contactless card over the years = 0.


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## wtfftw (May 18, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> You can still do small transactions without no?


Don't think so. I haven't tried tbh.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2016)

wtfftw said:


> There's the basic protection of having your screen locked. You have to unlock your screen to use it. Android Pay Requires You to Enable a Secure Lock Screen | Droid Life


So do you have to unlock the phone?  Confused.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 18, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So do you have to unlock the phone?  Confused.



Only above a certain amount


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## editor (May 19, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So do you have to unlock the phone?  Confused.


I trust this explains it:


> You'll be able to spend on Android Pay by just waking the screen on your phone - much like using a contactless card there's no authentication process for spending up to a £30 limit.
> 
> Android Pay allows you to make payments up to £100 as well, but anything above the £30 limit will require you to enter your pattern, PIN or fingerprint.
> Everything you need to know about Android Pay in the UK | TechRadar





> I've had a preview of the Android Pay app, and if anything it is even simpler to use once you have uploaded your cards to the app.
> 
> Your phone has to have some kind of lock - a fingerprint, or pattern or Pin code - but when the device is on, you don't even need the app to be open to tap-and-pay on a contactless terminal.
> Android Pay in UK: A tipping point for mobile payments? - BBC News


So no faffing about with fingerprints, apps or anything else for payments under £30, but pattern, PIN or fingerprint unlocking needed for transactions over £30. Simple.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 19, 2016)

Ah, right. The ability to do stuff over £30 is cool, hopefully that will eventually happen on Apple Pay as well...


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## skyscraper101 (May 19, 2016)

Ah... so you don't have to unlock for under £30. That's cool then. 

So next move would surely be enable Barclays, American Express, and some kind of smart integration of Oyster and then they're really onto something.


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## oneflewover (May 19, 2016)

editor said:


> So no faffing about with fingerprints, apps or anything else for payments under £30, but pattern, PIN or fingerprint unlocking needed for transactions over £30. Simple.



Screen has to be on for transactions, using Z5 fingerprint lock is same as unlocking, so added security.


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## fen_boy (May 19, 2016)

It works now I rebooted my phone. Also had two options for Nectar and Waitrose loyalty cards, only the second option generated a scannable barcode.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 19, 2016)

fen_boy said:


> It works now I rebooted my phone. Also had two options for Nectar and Waitrose loyalty cards, only the second option generated a scannable barcode.



I got a Morrisons card today so I could use it. I don't normally bother as I don't want loads cluttering my wallet, but may as well if they are scanned on my phone


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## PursuedByBears (May 20, 2016)

Just used it to buy a lovely pint of Hawkshead Red in Wetherspoons. It feels like I'm living in the future


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## Mojofilter (May 20, 2016)

editor said:


> Unless you're with fucking Barclays


Barclays are cutting out the middle man and have built it into their own mobile banking app. It's in Beta at the moment. 

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 20, 2016)

Fail on the loyalty card thing today. Handed over my phone so they could read the bar code but it didn't work and she had to tap in the numbers manually. I could almost feel the eyes from the people behind me.


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## fen_boy (May 21, 2016)

I had same problem with loyalty card. 

Sent from my XT1580 using Tapatalk


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## 2hats (May 23, 2016)

Worth putting a separate credit card on the phone for Android Pay as a backup payment method (not my money=no direct, immediate access to my own bank account and clear audit trail) but the same effort as waving a piece of plastic near the reader (which itself isn't prone to battery failure, works in the rain/when I have wet hands and is less annoying/expensive/inconvenient to drop on the floor/have grabbed from my hand/lose).


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 23, 2016)

So it appears that the case on my phone makes this a bit hit and miss depending on the card terminal. Which leaves you looking a bit silly really.


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## stuff_it (May 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's all positive news of course, but given a lot of major retailers here still don't even accept contactless transactions on contactless enabled credit cards I suspect it's going to be very slow to mature, this tech.
> 
> Also, given you still have to physically hold something to place something on the card reader and then authorise with a passcode/fingerID it doesn't seem like a massive convenience over using a contactless card - especially when they have with no extra security level to complete. There are other reasons also why I'd prefer to keep using an Oyster card too on TFL (eg. for non PAYG travel cards, and for receiving TFL statements via email etc).
> 
> ...


You could always just get the chip out of an oyster card and gaffer tape it to your wrist...

There's already an NFC loyalty card app...


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## editor (May 23, 2016)

stuff_it said:


> You could always just get the chip out of an oyster card and gaffer tape it to your wrist...
> 
> There's already an NFC loyalty card app...


I saw a guy who had his oyster card wedged in the back of his phone case. Did the trick.


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## Chz (May 24, 2016)

kropotkin said:


> Argh. Been waiting ages for this but I can't use it as I'm rooted. I expect there will be a workaround at some point,  but everything I tried today failed. Balls.


You can use it on a rooted phone so long as SU isn't active. I only rooted to install a custom recovery, and I never use SU. Works fine for me, although it _says_ it's disabled at first but when you tick a box to enable it it's fine.


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## JamesRaymond87 (Jun 12, 2016)

Will test later..First I will check feedback of other people.


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## kropotkin (Jun 14, 2016)

Chz said:


> You can use it on a rooted phone so long as SU isn't active. I only rooted to install a custom recovery, and I never use SU. Works fine for me, although it _says_ it's disabled at first but when you tick a box to enable it it's fine.


Thanks
Hmm,  maybe I can write something using tasker to disable su before enabling android pay...?


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## editor (Jun 14, 2016)

More info here: Android Pay in the UK: Everything you need to know


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 14, 2016)

Was bloody useful the other day when I was away for the weekend and lost my wallet.


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## editor (Jun 22, 2016)

Barclays has finally released their own app. Doesn;t work on my phone though 

Anyone tried it yet? 







Barclays finally launches its contactless payment answer to Android Pay in the UK


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## 2hats (Jun 22, 2016)

editor said:


> Anyone tried it yet?


No. I complained to them about not getting on board with Android Pay and they credited me £50 by way of an apology/good will gesture. 

Not that I give that much of a toss as I've tied a different set of cards to Android Pay anyway (simply as a backup emergency payment method).


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## editor (Jun 22, 2016)

2hats said:


> No. I complained to them about not getting on board with Android Pay and they credited me £50 by way of an apology/good will gesture.


I complained too but didn't get that £50!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 23, 2017)

I'm using it a lot more now as it seems to work better on my latest phone. However I wish that you could enabled it to need the phone being unlocked to spend under 30 quid as it would make it more secure then contactless. 

I've also not seen anywhere that let's me pay for purchases over 30 with it, regardless of if the phone is locked or not.


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## dervish (Jul 24, 2017)

That's odd. On my G5 I can't use it at all unless it's unlocked, but then I can use it for any size purchase. 

I've had the conversation with so many cashiers telling me that it can't be used and then being very surprised when I prove it can.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 24, 2017)

dervish said:


> That's odd. On my G5 I can't use it at all unless it's unlocked, but then I can use it for any size purchase.
> 
> I've had the conversation with so many cashiers telling me that it can't be used and then being very surprised when I prove it can.



Maybe I can then. I got knocked back on one, so assumed I had to see a special symbol, but will try again. On mine the screen just needs to be on, rather then actually unlocked.


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## The Boy (Jul 24, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I'm using it a lot more now as it seems to work better on my latest phone. However I wish that you could enabled it to need the phone being unlocked to spend under 30 quid as it would make it more secure then contactless.
> 
> I've also not seen anywhere that let's me pay for purchases over 30 with it, regardless of if the phone is locked or not.



I read this post and was all "nah, I have to unlock it, bruv", but then I went and checked and it deffo says it only needs to be awake which I assume isn't the same as unlocked.


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## dervish (Jul 24, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Maybe I can then. I got knocked back on one, so assumed I had to see a special symbol, but will try again. On mine the screen just needs to be on, rather then actually unlocked.



Yeah, if they say no, ask if you can try it, nothing to lose. I've had one actual argument about it, when a cashier refused to let me pay until I got my card out, I then tapped my phone, said thanks and left.


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