# Native Americans or American Indians?



## ska invita (Sep 6, 2007)

Is it really so un-PC to call native americans american indians (or vice versa)?

I notice that Zinn in his hostory of the US uses both interchangably, and in the US the musuem dedicated is called The National Museum of the American Indian http://www.nmai.si.edu

Did any of the disparate tribes/nations have a collective common name for themselves? I guess not.

Im wondering if someone from the US has more insight as to whether Indian is a total no-no. I thought it had become so, but perhaps not.


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## dylanredefined (Sep 6, 2007)

The only one I ever met called himself an Indian ,but,he was an old chap so
no idea what the present generation perfer .I guess it depends on personal choice.
   Was an article in the sunday times about the rise in casnios .The Indians in that chose  to call themselves Indians not Native Americans though think they identified more as which ever Tribe they were from rather as an ethnic group.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 6, 2007)

To the extent that they identify themselves that way, most native americans will say, I'm a Cree, I'm a Blood, etc.

As for how they identified themselves, if you're looking for some term synonymous with 'indian', I don't think you'll find one, although there are posters to this board better able to answer than I am.

There is a group called the Dene, which is well represented in Canada, but which includes the Navajo in the four corners region. I think Dene means something like 'the people', but I could be wrong.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 6, 2007)

It's interesting if you look at some of these language distributions.

Why is there a big block of Dene in western canada and the NWT, and then a grouping in the US southwest?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na-Dene


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 6, 2007)

Here's another one, the Blood Tribe, one that I'm somewhat familiar with. In their own language, their name apparently means 'the real people'.

http://www.bloodtribe.org/main.html


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## JTG (Sep 6, 2007)

Clearly the correct term is Injuns.

Run To The Hills


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 6, 2007)




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## phildwyer (Sep 12, 2007)

"Natives" not "Indians," "nations" not "tribes."  But most of them aren't too bothered either way ime.


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## cesare (Sep 12, 2007)

A Canadian friend told me that we're meant to say 'first nation' nowadays. Don't know how accurate that is.


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## phildwyer (Sep 12, 2007)

I did get in trouble when I first moved to the US, for using the term "Red Indians."  That's definitely considered offensive.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Sep 12, 2007)

I don't know anyone who is much bothered either way.  Just be decent and respectful, like you would be to anyone else.


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## Dubversion (Sep 12, 2007)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Just be decent and respectful, like you would be to anyone else.



see, that's a dangerous assumption


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## Yuwipi Woman (Sep 12, 2007)

phildwyer said:
			
		

> I did get in trouble when I first moved to the US, for using the term "Red Indians."  That's definitely considered offensive.



Yeh, that'll get you beat down in some places.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Sep 12, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> see, that's a dangerous assumption



Don't worry Dub, we're usually very understanding of the mentally infirm.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 12, 2007)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Yeh, that'll get you beat down in some places.



Mostly, in places where there are indians.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Sep 12, 2007)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> Mostly, in places where there are indians.



Yep.  You really wouldn't want to say that on the Pine Ridge.  You might be able to get away with it in Brooklyn.

For a while there was a fad of wearing FBI logo T-shits.  I couldn't honestly wear one, because it stands for "full blooded indian."

Athough this is a popular one too:

http://www.coyotescorner.com/tshirts-hs6.htm


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 12, 2007)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Yep.  You really wouldn't want to say that on the Pine Ridge.  You might be able to get away with it in Brooklyn.
> 
> For a while there was a fad of wearing FBI logo T-shits.  I couldn't honestly wear one, because it stands for "full blooded indian."
> 
> ...



You couldn't say it in North Winnipeg, either.

Where I came from, FBI meant 'fuckin' big indian'


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## Yuwipi Woman (Sep 14, 2007)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> You couldn't say it in North Winnipeg, either.
> 
> Where I came from, FBI meant 'fuckin' big indian'



Well, you know about the full blood/half blood divide as well as I do.


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## JoMo1953 (Sep 14, 2007)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> Where I came from, FBI meant 'fuckin' big indian'


Wrong everyone knows it stands for 
"Fucking Bureaucratic Institute" and on occassion "Fucking Boring Idiots"


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Sep 15, 2007)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Well, you know about the full blood/half blood divide as well as I do.



Being a half blood, yes I do. Even though it's not half indian.


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## rasrave (Sep 15, 2007)

Thought that the "FBI" t-shirt was kind of funny, as I used to own one of them that said "Federal Bureau of Intoxication" in small letters...
Just had this conversation with a friend of mine that is (as he puts it) 1/32 Cheyenne/ Natchez tribe, he simply put it as such: You are either Indian or not, no matter what "percentage", and the minute that you meet another person of any kind of "Indian" descent you understand that you are of the same "family".
Sounds strange but made sense at the time...?


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## D (Sep 15, 2007)

JoMo1953 said:
			
		

> Wrong everyone knows it stands for
> "Fucking Bureaucratic Institute" and on occassion "Fucking Boring Idiots"


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## enchantedlife (Sep 17, 2007)

I am a Native American/American Indian from America. n my tribe it doesn't really matter to us whether you say it as Native American or American Indian. Both ways of saying it to us is considered politically correct. Just thought I would try to clear up some of your concerns.  


<snip - fm>


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## Guineveretoo (Sep 17, 2007)

I would say "native american", but I am not convinced that is the currently accepted phrase 

However, as others have said, so long as people are treated with respect and dignity, and words are not used deliberately to offend, perhaps it is less important?


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## gorski (Sep 17, 2007)

*I have a question...*

Haven't the "Native Americans" come to, what is now, Americas from Asia [allegedly, they all stem from the same, single group that crossed into Americas, genetically speaking] and _exterminated_ the original "Native Americans"? As in pushed them, almost literally, over the edge... as they kept retreating before the violent newcomers we now dub "The First Nation"...

Apparently the last remnants of the really "old" and "native" America being two literally "half-breed" [only partially carrying the genes of the old, true native Americans] women [sisters] living in Tierra Del Fuego - unless they died in the meantime.

A very sore point to point out to the today's "First Nation", for obvious reasons, as the "newcomers" from Europe were, in their "received wisdom", "genocidal" [pretty true, of course - and none of this in any way excuses or justifies what the Europeans have done in America since Columbo and co.] and their [today's "Native American's"] self-understanding is of kinda angelic and living in brotherhood and peace with nature type...

Not so, needless to say, as we ALL [the whole of Humanity] have the potential for _all_ they accuse the "whities" [only] of...

Anyone with more info on the topic?


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## Belushi (Sep 17, 2007)

> Haven't the "Native Americans" come to, what is now, Americas from Asia [allegedly, they all stem from the same, single group that crossed into Americas, genetically speaking] and exterminated the original "Native Americans"? As in pushed them, almost literally, over the edge... as they kept retreating before the violent newcomers we now dub "The First Nation"...



My understanding is that Native Americans were the first humans in the Americas - I'd be fascianted if you have any links on this subject as its entirely new to me.


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## gorski (Sep 17, 2007)

There was an extensive BBC documentary on the topics, as they tracked down the two women I mentioned and told the "story"...

Can't find it right now, which is why I asked if anyone has more info, too...

Here's a start:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/columbustrans.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/unearthingmysteries_20021126.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3086777.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/942299.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2538323.stm


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