# tax doesn't have to be taxing



## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

or does it 

I don't have receipts for all my expenses...does that mean I have to discard these expenses, or are bank statements showing the outgoings sufficient?

And the online for is done by 31/1...then it automatically calculates how much yoou owe, but then do you have to pay that amount by 31/1 too?

Never done it before, going to start now


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2010)

is this for 2008-2009? I don't have to worry about anything since april 2009 yet do I?


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## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

yes 08/09 is being done now...as well as that payment on account for some of 09/10, i think


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## chooch (Jan 6, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> do you have to pay that amount by 31/1 too?
> 
> Never done it before, going to start now



Yes, but no. If you don;t, they charge interest on it, but the _deadline_ deadline is the end of February, I think. 

On the receipts, not sure. I've claimed some (genuine) stuff on slightly skimpy evidence before, and nothing has come back to me yet, but it could at some point...


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## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

So you have to fill in the form AND pay by 31/1...thought it 31/1 was the form deadline..gutted 

Exactly what do I have to submit evidence wise for...I have the HMRC pincode but don't know where to go on the site...I will probably have to call them at somepoint...just getting my incomings and outgoings together for now


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## chooch (Jan 6, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Exactly what do I have to submit evidence wise for...I have the HMRC pincode but don't know where to go on the site...


If you're just a sole trader self-assessing, you don't really have to submit evidence as part of the electronic return - just need to have it in case they decide to check up, which they may do at any time in the next however-many-it-is years.


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## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

Thought so.  I asked this before I think, but I obviously can;t claim my 45/month contract for 100% work, at the same time, I don;t have time/can;t be bothered to go through all those months of itemised bills to work out what was work related...so I guess 15/month claimed for bills is ok ... ? 

And I'm living at home, and pay some rent to my 'rents, so can I claim some sort of 'office space' for my room, and how would I work such a thing out 

thanks for the other answers, btw


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## prunus (Jan 6, 2010)

You don't have to submit any evidence, you only need the evidence if they decide to investigate your return (which they can do up to 7 years in arrears, plus if they find any irregularities they can go back as far as they like).

I'd not make any claims for which I didn't have receipts, just in case.  If bank statements are detailed enough that for instance a claim for £100 of stationary supplies is notated as going to 'Stationary supplies Ltd' then *maybe* it'd be OK...   I still wouldn't though - I've had fun with the Revenoo in the past, and they are as bastardly as they can be.

Any unclear outgoings without receipts will likely be treated as evidence of avoidance.

'Office space' for room - yes, plus heating, electricity etc.  There are some rules (that keep changing) about percentages that you have to be very careful of so you don't get your house designated as a 'workplace' and have to pay rates.  The fact that it's your parents to which you're paying may also complicate things a lot - HMRC are very down on payments to 'connected persons' offset against tax.

In short - get some proper advice on that one.  And err on the side of caution.


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## prunus (Jan 6, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Thought so.  I asked this before I think, but I obviously can;t claim my 45/month contract for 100% work, at the same time, I don;t have time/can;t be bothered to go through all those months of itemised bills to work out what was work related...so I guess 15/month claimed for bills is ok ... ?



Sorry, didn't notice this bit - if you 'can't be bothered' to work it out correctly make sure you're underestimating by a looooooong way, coz if you get it wrong, they calculate it and find out 'I couldn't be bothered' goes down very badly - trust me, I know


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## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

this sounds complex  i travel via public transport to work and lost a load of past railcards which i would use as evidence.... but all my outgoings are clear on bank statements so may risk it


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## Paul Russell (Jan 6, 2010)

I received the reminder through the post yesterday. It says (briefly)

-- online tax return must be filed by 31 January. Liable to £100 penalty if received after this.

-- money you owe must be paid by, or on, 31 January, otherwise you will be charged interest. You will also have to pay a surcharge of 5% if any amount remains unpaid after 28 February.

Hmm, I usually do the online thing at the last minute, and pay at the last minute --so in theory I guess my payment never reaches them by 31 January, so maybe I also pay a small amount of interest. As far as I can see, there doesn't seem to be any fine for paying late, which is good because even though I anticipate my bill will be small I don't think I will have the dosh this year until about 7 February... Oh dear.


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## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

hmm, how about this: I started and registered S/E in sept 08, but in order to work, I had to pay for/pass exams earlier (apr-aug), can that form part of expenses?  I needed to pass exams in order to work, however, I was not registered S/E at the time of paying and passing those exams.


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## prunus (Jan 6, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> hmm, how about this: I started and registered S/E in sept 08, but in order to work, I had to pay for/pass exams earlier (apr-aug), can that form part of expenses?  I needed to pass exams in order to work, however, I was not registered S/E at the time of paying and passing those exams.



Best thing to do with specific questions of that sort is to ring them and ask them - they're (surprisingly) helpful and nice when they're not investigating you.


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## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

will do tomorrow, cheers


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## Yelkcub (Jan 6, 2010)

Remember that if you are limited company corporation tax is due 9 months after then end of the relevant period.


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## kazza007 (Jan 6, 2010)

what % or how many self employed people do they do random checks on every year


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## chooch (Jan 6, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> As far as I can see, there doesn't seem to be any fine for paying late


Aye. That's my reading of it. Reckon I'll pay by the end of January cos otherwise I'll only blow in on fags and booze, and that could lead to tears later.


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## kazza007 (Jan 8, 2010)

Gutted: could not get through tp a technical advisor yesterday or today, and they've arranged a call back which could take 7 days.
fml


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## Forum Lout (Jan 8, 2010)

A former colleague of mine hasn't sent in her accounts for the past four years and hasn't kept her receipts


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## Cloo (Jan 9, 2010)

Urgh, this reminded me that I have to pay TWO YEARS' tax at the end of the month. Basically, because what I pay in tax is no longer mostly 'at source' because I work part time now, I have to pay on account for the next tax year. So because I earn a less money I have to pay double tax this year. Thanks a fucking bunch, HMRC.


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## Looby (Jan 9, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Gutted: could not get through tp a technical advisor yesterday or today, and they've arranged a call back which could take 7 days.
> fml



It's the worst month of the year to try and speak to someone about Self Assessment. They will call back but if you don't hear from them in 7 days call again and tell them it's a second request. 

Can I politely suggest that everyone tries to do their returns earlier then they will have more time to suss this stuff out and the phone lines won't be as busy. 

Same as trying to file online at 11pm on 31 Jan and then moaning because the site has crashed. 



Cloo said:


> Urgh, this reminded me that I have to pay TWO YEARS' tax at the end of the month. Basically, because what I pay in tax is no longer mostly 'at source' because I work part time now, I have to pay on account for the next tax year. So because I earn a less money I have to pay double tax this year. Thanks a fucking bunch, HMRC.



You're not paying 2 years tax at the end of the month you are paying last years and a payment on account for this year. As we are more than halfway through the tax year you have already earned the money you are being asked to pay tax on. If you have earned less money you will pay less tax.

Also, if you're earnings are less that last year you can apply to reduce your Payments on Account.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 9, 2010)

What do you do if you are freelance? Can I claim for a room in my house? 
I haven't actually looked at amy forms yet.


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## chooch (Jan 9, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Can I politely suggest that everyone tries to do their returns earlier then they will have more time to suss this stuff out and the phone lines won't be as busy.


Aye. Mine's all worked out. Just need to press send, which I'll do today, probably. 


> As we are more than halfway through the tax year you have already earned the money you are being asked to pay tax on. Also, if you're earnings are less that last year you can apply to reduce your Payments on Account.


This. It doesn't seem too bad a deal. Gives me an extra six months at least to spend all the money I should've put aside for tax.


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## Looby (Jan 9, 2010)

chooch said:


> Aye. Mine's all worked out. Just need to press send, which I'll do today, probably.
> This. It doesn't seem too bad a deal. Gives me an extra six months at least to spend all the money I should've put aside for tax.



HMRC loves you from the bottom of it's cold little heart.


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## chooch (Jan 9, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> HMRC loves you from the bottom of it's cold little heart.


If I suck up to them shamelessly, I reckon they'll go easy on me


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## Cloo (Jan 9, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> You're not paying 2 years tax at the end of the month you are paying last years and a payment on account for this year. As we are more than halfway through the tax year you have already earned the money you are being asked to pay tax on. If you have earned less money you will pay less tax.


 Yeah, you're right... I meant I'm paying two years' this year - the rest in July. Luckily, I did have enough money left over when I found out to almost cover it, and have some other savings to plug the gap. It's really confusing, as it's varied over the last few years whether I'm paying upfront on account or not. I decided to save meself a few hundred quid this year by not getting the accountant to do it - he kindly looked over my form for me for nowt, and confirmed the numbers were right, nothing to be done about it.


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## zenie (Jan 11, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What do you do if you are freelance? Can I claim for a room in my house?
> I haven't actually looked at amy forms yet.


 
You own your house right, which makes it slightly more difficult in claiming back 'home office rent' expenses, but yep you can! 

Definitley put in a % claim for electric, water, and internet/phone. 

Best thing is to speak to a proper tax accountant.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 11, 2010)

zenie said:


> You own your house right, which makes it slightly more difficult in claiming back 'home office rent' expenses, but yep you can!
> 
> Definitley put in a % claim for electric, water, and internet/phone.
> 
> Best thing is to speak to a proper tax accountant.



Probably not worth it for what I did in the period. I was just wondering for the next one. Maybe it's something I could tackle myself.


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## zenie (Jan 11, 2010)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Probably not worth it for what I did in the period. I was just wondering for the next one. *Maybe it's something I could tackle myself.*


 
Course you can! 

see HMRC site and get reading...Zzzzz


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## Looby (Jan 11, 2010)

zenie said:


> You own your house right, which makes it slightly more difficult in claiming back 'home office rent' expenses, but yep you can!
> 
> Definitley put in a % claim for electric, water, and internet/phone.
> 
> Best thing is to speak to a proper tax accountant.



Phone your tax office, tell them you want advice about using a room in your home as an office, they will put you through to a technician (not at the moment it's too busy). Unless your affairs are complicated I really feel like a tax accountant is unneccesary.


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## zenie (Jan 12, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Phone your tax office, tell them you want advice about using a room in your home as an office, they will put you through to a technician (not at the moment it's too busy). Unless your affairs are complicated I really feel like a tax accountant is unneccesary.


 
The only reason I say it is when you rent it's fairly straightforward, when you own your own home and claim rent for a home office, you're liable for capital gains tax. 

I was told get a tax accountant and you'll save a fortune, not correct then?


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## kazza007 (Jan 12, 2010)

Depends how straightforard your returns are, and how much you've earnt, as to whether it justifies an accountant.

For me, I started in sept 08, so haven't done a full years work, so can't justify it, plus i've heard the whole tax return is straightforward (still ain't started mine, still gathering paperwork and waiting for HMRC) 

I know accountants prices vary, but how much should one pay them to do your tax return for you...if you have all in salary payments in and expenses out already totted up...if things get late and rushed, I may have to hire one


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## prunus (Jan 12, 2010)

What you have to do for a basic tax return is (imo) not complicated, but it's embedded within complexity, if you see what I mean - the difficult bit is understanding which small uncomplicated bits of the whole you need to fill in, and which you don't.  I used to have a accountant do mine, but he fucked me over and ever since I've done it myself, and never had any trouble.  I do use some online filing software though, which I find makes it a lot easier (as it tells you when you've not filled in the bits you need to, and does the calculations for you too).  I use this: http://www.ftax.co.uk/ which is £15.


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## Throbbing Angel (Jan 12, 2010)

HMRC
wankers


2006 - Throbbing 'works' in a uni - on a bursary/studentship as a part of his MA course - he is told no tax is due
2007 - HMRC - where is our tax on that?
2008 - HMRC - where is our tax on that? £100 fine - threats of legal action
2009 - HMRC - where is our tax on that? another £100 fine and an estimated tax bill of £500, plus interest on the fines - threats of legal action, bailiffs, distraint etc
2010 -HMRC letter arrives - we owe you £284 as you overpaid tax in that tax year!

un-be-fucking-leivable
2009 - HMRC - where is our tax on that?


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## kazza007 (Jan 12, 2010)

They're such a confused bunch of wankers.

Q: you know you have to pay 50% in advance.  I assume this is based on your previous years earning, as to what is forecast.  If you earn less, you get a tax rebate.  If you're expected to earn more, you just tell them, I assume?  Or is it all set in stone with what they 'forecast'?


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## kabbes (Jan 12, 2010)

People: file your statements properly!


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## Paul Russell (Jan 12, 2010)

Last year was the first year I did my self-assessment online.

Assuming that I can find my password details, etc. (I know I've seen them in a paper folder _somewhere_) can you use last year's log in details, or do you have to go through that palaver about receiving the details in the post again?

Bollocks. What a shit month January is...


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## prunus (Jan 12, 2010)

> They're such a confused bunch of wankers.
> 
> Q: you know you have to pay 50% in advance. I assume this is based on your previous years earning, as to what is forecast. If you earn less, you get a tax rebate. If you're expected to earn more, you just tell them, I assume? Or is it all set in stone with what they 'forecast'?



You pay 100% 'in advance' - 50% in Jan and 50% in July.  They assume you earn the same in the next year.  By the time it comes to pay then second 50% (July) you'll already know exactly what you did earn to the previous April, and can calculate the tax owed - if it's less than the previous year's owings you can adjust the amount you paid downwards to the actual amount.  If you adjust it too low you will pay interest on the difference, so don't do that.  If you know you'll be paying more the next year you don't have to adjust it up though.

If by Jan (ie now) you already know that you'll be owing less than the previous year (as you're ten months in you already often have a very good idea) you can adjust the first payment on account down too - my opinion is that it's only worth doing this if you know that you'll be paying less than half the amount of tax you did the previous year (as it's better to keep it than have to reclaim it) or if cashflow really is tight.

Adjusting payments on account (what the 'advance' payments are called) is easy, and can be done multiple times as circumstances change.  Bear in mind if you adjust them up you'll be charged  interest on the difference between what you said you owed before and now for the period between the two figures.

Easy


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## prunus (Jan 12, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> Last year was the first year I did my self-assessment online.
> 
> Assuming that I can find my password details, etc. (I know I've seen them in a paper folder _somewhere_) can you use last year's log in details, or do you have to go through that palaver about receiving the details in the post again?
> 
> Bollocks. What a shit month January is...



You can use the same ones.


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## Paul Russell (Jan 12, 2010)

prunus said:


> You can use the same ones.



Nice one. After spending several hours last week looking for my details, I just found the folder with them in.


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## Paul Russell (Jan 12, 2010)

prunus said:


> You pay 100% 'in advance' - 50% in Jan and 50% in July.



I've always paid in January and July for the last 10-ish years, but I think that last year I had to pay it all in January.

Was that something to do with the fact that it was a very small amount?


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## neonwilderness (Jan 12, 2010)

I registered as self employed last July (as well as working full time), am I right in thinking that I don't need to submit a tax return until after the start of the new tax year?


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## prunus (Jan 12, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> I've always paid in January and July for the last 10-ish years, but I think that last year I had to pay it all in January.
> 
> Was that something to do with the fact that it was a very small amount?



I don't know, sorry   I'm not an expert, just a user.


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## prunus (Jan 12, 2010)

neonwilderness said:


> I registered as self employed last July (as well as working full time), am I right in thinking that I don't need to submit a tax return until after the start of the new tax year?



Jan 2011 for the tax year 2009-2010 I think.


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## kazza007 (Jan 14, 2010)

*fml*

How's everyone doing? 

They did the call back, I was away from my phone, I tried to call back and they're busy, back to square fucking one, FML 

Just need to know if expenses without receipts if I only have bank statements are acceptable, and if I can claim for stuff that I needed to work if the expenses were a few months before I reg. self-employed when I was unemployed


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## zenie (Jan 15, 2010)

So if I register as self employed at the beginning of Feb, when are my first accounts and tax due?


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## kazza007 (Jan 15, 2010)

Jan 2011  or Jul 2010 

Been passed on the details of a family friend who's a successful chartered accountant who said he'd help me out, so I've bypassed shitty HMRC and hope he can help me now, just sent off a big ol' emails


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## Cloo (Jan 15, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> How's everyone doing?


 Preparing to pay up in about 10 days.


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## Looby (Jan 15, 2010)

zenie said:


> The only reason I say it is when you rent it's fairly straightforward, when you own your own home and claim rent for a home office, you're liable for capital gains tax.
> 
> I was told get a tax accountant and you'll save a fortune, not correct then?



I don't know about claiming rent for a home office, I thought you would just be claiming expenses for using a room as an office? You would claim a percentage of your gas, electric, phone etc I don't think there would be any CGT liability for that but I may be wrong so don't take my word for it.



Throbbing Angel said:


> HMRC
> wankers
> 
> 
> ...



The £100 penalties will be for non submission of the return I'd imagine. Once the return is submitted the estimated amount will be replaced by the actual earnings. I guess you have done the return and that's why you're now overpaid?



Paul Russell said:


> I've always paid in January and July for the last 10-ish years, but I think that last year I had to pay it all in January.
> 
> Was that something to do with the fact that it was a very small amount?



Yes, probably. Was it less than £500?


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## FreddyB (Jan 15, 2010)

I play russian roulette with my tax return, I have no receipts for anything and never have had. I put in a return based on what I think I can pay and then pay it. One day they will look at me and fuck me to hell. Until then, meh


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## madamv (Jan 15, 2010)

FreddyB said:


> I play russian roulette with my tax return, I have no receipts for anything and never have had. I put in a return based on what I think I can pay and then pay it. One day they will look at me and fuck me to hell. Until then, meh



I wish I had your strength of character


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## kazza007 (Jan 17, 2010)

^ 

I'm doing my excel stuff now, and determined to input it onto the hmrc by next week..

couple things...when doing expenses, such as phone bill, do you use the total figure on the bill which includes VAT, or the figure that excludes VAT (IM s/e Sole trader)

and with a LTD CO, can you change from being s/e sole trader to LTD CO at any time, or only at the start of the tax year?


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## Cloo (Jan 18, 2010)

My dad has a fairly gung-ho attitude... his taxes are complicated and mad with him being based abroad, and every now and then the revenue tells him he owes the 10ks and he basically says 'Bollocks do I' and passes it on to the accountants who prove why it's bollocks. He's basically said to me that if you receive any demand that looks wildly wrong, then it almost certainly is, because they're hugely incompetent like that. Though I'm not paying them to do my return for the forseeable, the accountants are down as my 'tax advisers' which means all queries from Revenue go to them and i don't have to deal... though i guess I'll have to pay if they do have to do that, but it's not likely at the mo.


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## Badgers (Jan 18, 2010)

Tax does not need to be expensive

Go Billy!!


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## kazza007 (Jan 18, 2010)




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## aylee (Jan 18, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> or does it
> 
> I don't have receipts for all my expenses...does that mean I have to discard these expenses, or are bank statements showing the outgoings sufficient?
> 
> ...



I have frequently claimed for rail fares where the tickets have been eaten by ticket barriers or claimed by inspectors at the end of the route - never had any problem as long as it is kept within reasonable bounds.


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## kazza007 (Jan 18, 2010)

Thanks^ so you can claim for any bus/train journey to work, with distance being irrelevant? Is it only relevant for car drivers/petrol consumers?

Under 2 weeks to go, everyone (bull)shitting numbers now?


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## kazza007 (Jan 18, 2010)

edit back to the drawing board


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## Looby (Jan 18, 2010)

Cloo said:


> My dad has a fairly gung-ho attitude... his taxes are complicated and mad with him being based abroad, and every now and then the revenue tells him he owes the 10ks and he basically says 'Bollocks do I' and passes it on to the accountants who prove why it's bollocks. He's basically said to me that if you receive any demand that looks wildly wrong, then it almost certainly is, *because they're hugely incompetent like that*. Though I'm not paying them to do my return for the forseeable, the accountants are down as my 'tax advisers' which means all queries from Revenue go to them and i don't have to deal... though i guess I'll have to pay if they do have to do that, but it's not likely at the mo.



Nice. Has your dad considered maybe he isn't completing his returns correctly? 

The staff aren't incompentent actually. On the whole they are overworked, badly paid and massively stressed.


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## kazza007 (Jan 19, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Nice. Has your dad considered maybe he isn't completing his returns correctly?


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## ymu (Jan 19, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Nice. Has your dad considered maybe he isn't completing his returns correctly?
> 
> The staff aren't incompentent actually. On the whole they are overworked, badly paid and massively stressed.


But surely they know better than to ask rich fuckers to pay their way. Who trains these people?


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## ymu (Jan 19, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Tax does not need to be expensive
> 
> Go Billy!!





> "When people owe a tax debt to the exchequer it has to be paid and if they're refusing to pay, we'll be hard on them," a spokesman said.


O RLY? Corporate tax fraud is £25 billion/year, compared to just £0.8 billion in benefit fraud. But I have yet to see an advert encouraging people to inform on tax-avoiding bosses. It's hard to see how they can be coming down hard on those who owe taxes to the exchequer if such vast sums are going unpaid.

Still, the quote did say "people", so perhaps they just mean they come down hard on those with no friends in high places?


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## kazza007 (Jan 19, 2010)

ymu said:


> But surely they know better than to ask rich fuckers to pay their way. Who trains these people?



10s'k too, wonder what cloo's dad (or 'father') does?


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## kazza007 (Jan 19, 2010)

where do people stick their tax money? under the bed? 
I think I'll have a few k which I saved for this tax year this which I'll need to have for next year 09/10..it's currently in the negligible interest e-saver account of my bank..dunno whether to use it to pay off my OD which I'm being charged for, buy some bonds, stick it in an ISA to fulfill my quota for the year?    i'll need to ensure it's safe and accessible without notice.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

Just logged into the site for the first time, OMG it's so hard, no idea what anything means, help


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Just logged into the site for the first time, OMG it's so hard, no idea what anything means, help



Firstly, don't panic. What don't you understand?


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

Everything. The jargon, the basis date, accounting date, adjustments, if I've ticked the right boxes, none of it. 

I was S/E from mid sept 08 to present.  I have drawn up an excel sheet with turnover, expenses, profit, taxable amount after personal allowance.  I've calculated the 8% ni: PROFITS - 5435.  I've calulated the 20% tax after personal allowance, and the 50% for 09/10 (ps with the 50%, to Include 50% of the class 4 NI and add it on too, or just 50% of the tax after personal allowance?)

Anyway, I have all the figures, but don't know what to tick or say yes/no to as it's do undecipherable.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

Do they like a big detailed breakdown of expenses or one big figure?
I;ve estimated a couple of small expenses as I don't have receipt, ie £60, worth stating or not


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

hmm ok, the total NI AND TAX due is the same as what they've calculated (well, out by 11pence, but I guess that's rounding up).  So I guess that's right?  

But: 'Second payment on account for 2009-10 will be due by 31 July 2010  	£0.00'  Why is that?  Can't be right?  Should be 50% of the total they've calculated?


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Do they like a big detailed breakdown of expenses or one big figure?
> I;ve estimated a couple of small expenses as I don't have receipt, ie £60, worth stating or not



If your annual turnover is less than 30k then you don't have to break down the expenses you just put the total in box 19. If it's over you have to break it down.


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> hmm ok, the total NI AND TAX due is the same as what they've calculated (well, out by 11pence, but I guess that's rounding up).  So I guess that's right?
> 
> But: 'Second payment on account for 2009-10 will be due by 31 July 2010  	£0.00'  Why is that?  Can't be right?  Should be 50% of the total they've calculated?



If the liability is less than £500 then you don't have payments on account.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

Also earlier on, ask if I received interest from banks?  And then they want to know how much I got taxed on the interest, how am I meant to know!


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> If your annual turnover is less than 30k then you don't have to break down the expenses you just put the total in box 19. If it's over you have to break it down.



Ok,thanks that's what I've done


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Also earlier on, ask if I received interest from banks?  And then they want to know how much I got taxed on the interest, how am I meant to know!



Bank statements. I believe all bank interest is taxed at 20%.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> If the liability is less than £500 then you don't have payments on account.



What do you mean by 'liability'?  My total tax and class 4 NI is over £500 if that's what you mean


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Bank statements. I believe all bank interest is taxed at 20%.



That's such a hassle, I have several...do ISA's count?!


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> What do you mean by 'liability'?  My total tax and class 4 NI is over £500 if that's what you mean



Just tax I think

From the HMRC website



> You'll usually have to make 'payments on account' of the current year's tax. You'll have to make two payments, one by 31 January in the current year and the other by the following 31 July. Each payment is half of the tax due for the previous year.
> 
> For example, for the tax year 2009-10 (6 April 2009 to 5 April 2010) the first payment on account will be due on 31 January 2010. The second payment on account will be due on 31 July 2010.
> 
> ...



Ah, they've changed it to under £1000


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Also earlier on, ask if I received interest from banks?  And then they want to know how much I got taxed on the interest, how am I meant to know!


I fucking hate that. "What do you mean you don't know - you took the fucking money off me. Do you not keep records?"

I'm guessing it'll be on your bank statements, FWIW.


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

ymu said:


> I fucking hate that. "What do you mean you don't know - you took the fucking money off me. Do you not keep records?"
> 
> I'm guessing it'll be on your bank statements, FWIW.



They didn't deduct the money, the bank did. It doesn't matter if they have records, it's Self Assessment, the clue is in the name.


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> That's such a hassle, I have several...do ISA's count?!



They're tax free aren't they?


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Just tax I think
> 
> From the HMRC website
> 
> ...



That clarifies that 

So in JUL 10, from what date to what date will tax/NI be due?  6th april 09 to?  And will that be seen as a 1st or 2nd payment on account, given that I don't have to pay the other 50% in Jan 2010?


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> They're tax free aren't they?



FML 

Although, I'm not looking at the form now, but don't they want to know interest gained after tax? ie is not tax deducted, then just total interest?  I'm sure that was what was asked on there?  Or was it total amount of tax deducted?


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> That clarifies that
> 
> So in JUL 10, from what date to what date will tax/NI be due?  6th april 09 to?  And will that be seen as a 1st or 2nd payment on account, given that I don't have to pay the other 50% in Jan 2010?



Once you've paid this your next payment will be Jan 2011 which will be the full years tax for 06/04/09-05/04/10. That is if you are working from an april to april accounting year (best to keep it simple).


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

'UK bank, building society, unit trust, etc interest/amount which has been taxed already. Enter net amount after tax'

what does it mean?!

total tax
total interest
total interest after tax
total saving after tax
total saving before tax
total savinnmmmmmmmmmmmmargggggggggggggghhhhhhhh


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

sparklefish said:


> Once you've paid this your next payment will be Jan 2011 which will be the full years tax for 06/04/09-05/04/10. That is if you are working from an april to april accounting year (best to keep it simple).



Thank you for the replies, sparklefish, btw!!

Ok, so no more tax til next year.

On what part if asks when my records end, I think.  I put 05/04/09, that right?  It was near the beginning.


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> FML
> 
> Although, I'm not looking at the form now, but don't they want to know interest gained after tax? ie is not tax deducted, then just total interest?  I'm sure that was what was asked on there?  Or was it total amount of tax deducted?



Question 1 is UK bank, building society etc interest/amount which has been taxed already (so the net amount after tax) So you enter the interest you received minus the tax that was deducted.

2 is untaxed amounts (gross amount) so the total interest received.

The rest is about dividends.

I should charge for this. 

Btw, I don't actually know most of this off the top of my head, it's all on the website.  The HMRC website really is very helpful. There are online helpsheets for every part of the form.


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Thank you for the replies, sparklefish, btw!!
> 
> Ok, so no more tax til next year.
> 
> On what part if asks when my records end, I think.  I put 05/04/09, that right?  It was near the beginning.



Yes, if you are using an april to april accounting year. Most people do but some use different accounting periods, this gets very complicated though.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

I tried to look at those help sheets, but ended up downloading loads of files and scrolling through pages and it just dazed me 

So I'm paying tax now for period sep 08 to april 09
Then on jan '11 it will be april 09 to april 10
What about stuff due after that..jul '11 (I realise I'm getting ahead of myself  )


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> I tried to look at those help sheets, but ended up downloading loads of files and scrolling through pages and it just dazed me
> 
> So I'm paying tax now for period sep 08 to april 09
> Then on jan '11 it will be april 09 to april 10
> What about stuff due after that..jul '11 (I realise I'm getting ahead of myself  )



Yep. If your liability for 09/10 is more than £1000 (or whatever the figure is next year) then you would have payments on account again. 

So, if you owe £900 then you would pay that Jan 2011 then nothing more for a year. 

If you owe £1200 then Jan 2011 you would pay £1200 balancing payment then £600 payment on account 1. 

In july 2011 you would pay another £600 payment on account 2. 

This would be towards 2010/2011 liability. If your liability for 2010/2011 is more than £1200 you would then pay the balance in January 2012 plus the next years payment on account 1 and so on for infinity.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

Infinity  is that a legal HMRC term 

I have an abbey savings account, I updated my book every month, think it's a 1 year thing where the interest (and I assume tax) gets added/deducted at the end of term...so ignore that for the tax/bank interest box.

When it asks for how many self employed businesses, I take it that means me, even though I'm an individual.. are they robbing me of my individuality  fml.  With 'business name', I've put my first and last name.

Have you had any 2008-09 Income Tax refunded or off-set by us or JobCentre Plus?  As in overpaid/emergency tax given back to?  Think so.

There was a bit where it asked if your earning over or below 30k and there were a series of yes/no boxes below to some questions, one was about 'providing services contractually as a professional'..think I put no..may need to tick yes as I'm a locum healthcare professional?  Can't remember, but it may affect things, anyway can't find it now


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## Badger Kitten (Jan 20, 2010)

Tax is incredibly bloody taxing 
and we're all quite bright, ffs.


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

Badger Kitten said:


> Tax is incredibly bloody taxing
> and we're all quite bright, ffs.



I think a lot of it is because we expect it to be difficult, it's automatically daunting. I'm not saying Self Assessment is easy the first time you do it but there is loads of help available and it gets easier every year. Keep a copy of the return because it will help you next year.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

this: I provide my services under contracts for professional or other services and these contracts span my accounting date

'If you are carrying on a trade, profession or vocation and have received income from contracts for professional or other services then you will need to change the way in which you calculate turnover in your accounts. This is because there has been a change in the accounting guidance on service contracts for accounting periods ending on or after 22 June 2005. This guidance, issued by the Accounting Standards Board, is called Urgent Issues Task Force Abstract 40 (UITF 40).

If the guidance applies to you, you may need to include a tax adjustment in this Return. '

I work as a pharmacist so offer my services day to day professionally to various pharmacies, do you think this box needs ticking 

ps will keep a return copy!


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> Infinity  is that a legal HMRC term
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Looby (Jan 20, 2010)

kazza007 said:


> this: I provide my services under contracts for professional or other services and these contracts span my accounting date
> 
> 'If you are carrying on a trade, profession or vocation and have received income from contracts for professional or other services then you will need to change the way in which you calculate turnover in your accounts. This is because there has been a change in the accounting guidance on service contracts for accounting periods ending on or after 22 June 2005. This guidance, issued by the Accounting Standards Board, is called Urgent Issues Task Force Abstract 40 (UITF 40).
> 
> ...




That sounds like something you might need to speak to a technician about.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

will speak to a technician, according to the site, I'm 90% done!

re 08/09, Yes I claimed some JSA and may have had some tax repayment for work between jan 08 and 4th april 08...claimed JSA after that til sep 08 when I registered S/E


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2010)

Sparkles, I hope you're putting in an overtime claim for this.


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## kazza007 (Jan 20, 2010)

apols if you're not getting overtime for this sparklefish


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## kazza007 (Jan 22, 2010)

Just finished my 1st tax return, at 230am, 1.5weeks before deadline, hopefully it's fine.  My tax bill is low, pushed a heap of legitimate expenses through (  ), and I paid it too from the money I saved up.  No payment on account, so I'm shoving the rest into ISA & Bonds.
Thanks to sparklefish and others that helped
Hopefully the 4 pages will reassure newbies that it's not very chaotic, jargon-filled and tediously meaningless....

*waits to get investigated because I'm unlucky like that and KNOW they will 'randomly' choose me* 

Good luck to the rest of you, GET IT DONE!


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## Paul Russell (Jan 29, 2010)

Just doing mine...

I know the online thing does the calculation for you, but I like to check it tallies with what I think it should be.

Is the Class 4 national insurance bit of the calculation still 8% of the taxable income for 2008/2009, or have they put it up???

"For 2008-09 the rates are 8 per cent on profits between £5,435 and £40,040 and 1 per cent on profits above that."

Hold, on though -- the basic personal allowance is £6035, so it's been changed. ???


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## FreddyB (Jan 29, 2010)

I've done mine, off to the bank tommorow to give them their money. It's always nice to get it out of the way. A chap I work with has been self employed for 11 years and has never done a return/paid a penny in tax. That takes some bollocks or serious denial


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## editor (Jan 29, 2010)

Half way through. Hating every fucking second of it.


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## Paul Russell (Jan 29, 2010)

Hmm, I must be able to find some more (legitimate) expenses -- I've got almost nothing at the moment.


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## zenie (Jan 29, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> Hmm, I must be able to find some more (legitimate) expenses -- I've got almost nothing at the moment.


 
Travel?
Special Clothing?
Consumables? 
Phone Bill?


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## Cloo (Jan 29, 2010)

Paid it on Monday. Now I only have a wodge to pay in July and it should be back to my normal annual balance in Jan 2011. Though it's just occurred to me that they might want it all in one go next Jan, and I'll only have raised half of it by then. Hmmm, better check about that.


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## Badgers (Jan 29, 2010)

Paul Russell said:


> Hmm, I must be able to find some more (legitimate) expenses -- I've got almost nothing at the moment.



Research?


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## ethel (Jan 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Half way through. Hating every fucking second of it.



i love you too


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## Paul Russell (Jan 29, 2010)

zenie said:


> Travel?
> Special Clothing?
> Consumables?
> Phone Bill?



Cheers. All I can really legitimately claim that I can think of is web hosting and Internet access. I'm sure if I was a bit better with receipts I could probably find a bit more, but nothing that would keep an MP in expenses for an afternoon really.


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## Paul Russell (Jan 29, 2010)

BTW, can anyone answer my question above?

In other words, although the basic personal allowance is £6035 for 08/09, for the Class 4 national insurance bit you have to pay 8% on the profit over £5,435 (not £6035). It always used to be 8% (or whatever) of profit minus personal allowance 

I know the magic Inland Revenue site will do the calculation, but I like to check it!


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