# Lord Blencathra proposes kettling people for 18 hours: new law



## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

*Fancy being kettled for 18 hours?*

An email I received - and it's not a joke.


> I've seen this come up on my parliamentary updates. The House of lords have introduced a new clause into the current Police and Social Responsibility Bill which effectiviely legitimises Kettling in Parliament Square for up to 18 hours. It also inserts a caveat that it is not necessary for even a mojority of the people contained to pose a threat.
> 
> These are the proposed ammendments:http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldbills/062/amend/ml062-ir.htm
> The particular detail is outlined below.
> ...


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

An email I received - and it's not a joke.


> I've seen this come up on my parliamentary updates. The House of lords have introduced a new clause into the current Police and Social Responsibility Bill which effectiviely legitimises Kettling in Parliament Square for up to 18 hours. It also inserts a caveat that it is not necessary for even a mojority of the people contained to pose a threat.
> 
> These are the proposed ammendments:http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldbills/062/amend/ml062-ir.htm
> The particular detail is outlined below.
> ...


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## miss minnie (May 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> (8) Containment of persons or a group of persons under subsection (1) shall not be a breach of any human rights enactment.
> 
> (9) It shall not be the duty of the Commissioner to provide any amenities or sustenance for persons in the contained group; and failure to provide the same shall not be a breach of any human rights enactment nor give rise to a legal action.


Words fail me.


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2011)

Surely that's up to the ECHR to decide?


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## spring-peeper (May 13, 2011)

I hope they provide food, drink and a loo for people trapped for 18 hours.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Words fail me.


 
Disgusting. The UK is still a signatory to the European Court of Human Rights, though. Surely those clauses must contravene that.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2011)

spring-peeper said:


> I hope they provide food, drink and a loo for people trapped for 18 hours.


 
Read the OP and maybe you'll find out, eh? Minnie's done a convenient edit if you can't be arsed to read the whole thing.


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## laptop (May 13, 2011)

That's gross.

As far as I can see, it's not passed - it's up for debate on the 18th.


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## Casually Red (May 13, 2011)

you are being detained against your will without crime , warrant , food , water , shelter ,toilet , evidence - solely on the arbitrary whim of a reactionary copper bastard .


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## spring-peeper (May 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Read the OP and maybe you'll find out, eh?



I tried, but all those "barness this" and "lord that" made my head spin.....


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## ddraig (May 13, 2011)

totally mental! can they say "shall not be a breach of any human rights enactment"???


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## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2011)

ddraig said:


> totally mental! can they say "shall not be a breach of any human rights enactment"???


 
Exactly. You can't just *say* that and make it true. I'd be surprised if this didn't contradict European Law.


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## stethoscope (May 13, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> Words fail me.


 
Yup.


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## ddraig (May 13, 2011)

had to read it 3 or 4 times to make sure they were saying "*It shall not be the duty of the Commissioner to provide any amenities or sustenance for persons in the contained group*" and not the other way round  what the fucking fuck?! seriously


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

I take it you've noticed the three mile bit. Everything in Westminster, the City of London, and a great deal of Lambeth...


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## ddraig (May 13, 2011)

ai 3 miles is a lot of the city and beyond!


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## miss minnie (May 13, 2011)

An image of a group of protestors surrounded by a cordon of police in turn surrounded by hundreds of pizza delivery scooters and a trailer load of portaloos blocking the roads springs to mind.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

miss minnie said:


> An image of a group of protestors surrounded by a cordon of police in turn surrounded by hundreds of pizza delivery scooters and a trailer load of portaloos blocking the roads springs to mind.


 
not a bad idea: at which point getting the pizza from delivery man through police lines through (hungry) crowd would be interesting to say the least


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## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Exactly. You can't just *say* that and make it true. I'd be surprised if this didn't contradict European Law.


 
Just had a look and I can't find anything directly, except that it is surely foreseeable that you are putting people in danger, and if the state acts in a way that causes death where a death was foreseeable, then they could perhaps be done under article 2. As ever with the law, it's a matter of judgement - there's some ammo there, but it isn't clear.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

i would have thought this law, if passed, would be more likely to encourage violence than extinguish it as no one would want to be kettled for 18 hours and would therefore be more likely to whack the cops to prevent incaraceration


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## Callie (May 13, 2011)

bottles of piss to lob at the kettlers anyone?


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

Callie said:


> bottles of piss to lob at the kettlers anyone?


 
quite


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## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2011)

Surely one can do better than piss in 18 hours.


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## miss minnie (May 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> not a bad idea: at which point getting the pizza from delivery man through police lines through (hungry) crowd would be interesting to say the least


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## Casually Red (May 13, 2011)

_bottles of piss to lob at the kettlers anyone? _







bag of shite ?


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## laptop (May 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> getting the pizza from delivery man through police lines through (hungry) crowd would be interesting to say the least


 
Trebuchet?


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## Callie (May 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i would have thought this law, if passed, would be more likely to encourage violence than extinguish it as no one would want to be kettled for 18 hours and would therefore be more likely to whack the cops to prevent incaraceration


 
not even that. how many perfectly well behaved, laid back people (assuming it was passed) are going to get into aggros with the cops trying to get out after being detained for longer than say 8 hours with access to food/water/toilet facilties because they see it as a breach of their human rights. 18 hours. fuck off.

They can't do it. Can they?!


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## Casually Red (May 13, 2011)

they invaded Iraq , they can do whatever the fuck they want


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## Callie (May 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Surely one can do better than piss in 18 hours.


 
I'd already made a comment about shitbags, literally, lobbed at them but I didn't want to just repeat it here.

NOW look what you've made me do


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## miss minnie (May 13, 2011)

Now if they kettle the protesters into a _queue _it might be a different matter.  Stick an iPhone shop front, or a JR Rowling look-alike signing copies of Harry Potter or something at the end and you might actually get away with a peaceful 18 hours.


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## laptop (May 13, 2011)

Now I've re-read it, that's an incredibly badly written amendment, even for Committee stage of a Bill, where Lords float slack ideas. 

So where does it come from? If it were sponsored by the Met, it'd surely be written in a form capable of being passed. 

Lord Blencathra is the ex-Tory-MP David Maclean: http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/david-maclean/25480 and was was Police Minister in the Home Office - which is alarming.

He's only spoken three times, so far: http://www.publications.parliament....rd/ldallfiles/peers/lord_hansard_5954_os.html


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## Callie (May 13, 2011)

How do you kettle a queue? Surely that would stretch police resources. More queue protests. Or that other things like a moving queue with kicking legs?


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## miss minnie (May 13, 2011)

People should protest in single file and come equipped with portable shelter and rations.  And balloons to piss in.


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## ddraig (May 13, 2011)

and in groups of 99


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

laptop said:


> Now I've re-read it, that's an incredibly badly written amendment, even for Committee stage of a Bill, where Lords float slack ideas.
> 
> So where does it come from? If it were sponsored by the Met, it'd surely be written in a form capable of being passed.
> 
> ...


 
he can't be that popular with rank and file plod cos this week's police review reports his calling for three sections of the police (health and safety) act 1997 to be repealed, which would remove the rights of officers to sue their force if they're injured by a health and safety breach.


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## Callie (May 13, 2011)

Nice guy then.


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## spring-peeper (May 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> he can't be that popular with rank and file plod cos this week's police review reports his calling for three sections of the police (health and safety) act 1997 to be repealed, which would remove the rights of officers to sue their force if they're injured by a health and safety breach.



Maybe they could kettle him for 18 hours.


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## tommyboy3000 (May 13, 2011)

Flippin' disgraceful.

What's the best way to make sure this doesn't go through?

Best route of complaint?


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## toast and tea (May 13, 2011)

Why is he named after the ancient name of a Cumbrian mountain popularised by Alfred Wainwright?

Stupid man.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

toast and tea said:


> Why is he named after the ancient name of a Cumbrian mountain popularised by Alfred Wainwright?
> 
> Stupid man.


 
because he's a conservative peer


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## longdog (May 14, 2011)

Before people go bonkers remember this is only a proposed amendment at the committee stage by a lord with a record for fuckwittery. There's a long way to go before it becomes law if it ever does and the statements that the amendments would not breach human rights legislation are only his (ill) informend opinions and dubious to say the very least.

It's worth watching but I don't think I'll be losing sleep over it just yet.


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## Wookey (May 14, 2011)

longdog said:


> Before people go bonkers remember this is only a proposed amendment at the committee stage by a lord with a record for fuckwittery. There's a long way to go before it becomes law if it ever does and the statements that the amendments would not breach human rights legislation are only his (ill) informend opinions and dubious to say the very least.
> 
> It's worth watching but I don't think I'll be losing sleep over it just yet.



Context!!


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## ViolentPanda (May 14, 2011)

spring-peeper said:


> I hope they provide food, drink and a loo for people trapped for 18 hours.


 
(9) It shall not be the duty of the Commissioner to provide any amenities or sustenance for persons in the contained group; and failure to provide the same shall not be a breach of any human rights enactment nor give rise to a legal action.


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## ViolentPanda (May 14, 2011)

Callie said:


> bottles of piss to lob at the kettlers anyone?


 
And a few newspaper-wrapped shit-bombs too.


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## Wolveryeti (May 14, 2011)

Lord Blencathra - a highly pleasant individual:

On beggars: 


> 'I always give them something – I give them a piece of my mind.'[1]


Luckily he is in v. poor health and will be on his way soon - the poisonous old shitcunt.


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## ViolentPanda (May 14, 2011)

toast and tea said:


> Why is he named after the ancient name of a Cumbrian mountain popularised by Alfred Wainwright?
> 
> Stupid man.


 
Because life peers get to choose where their title is related to, and because the media condense the title. What MacLean actually is, is the Lord MacLean of Blencathra, baron Blencathra.


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## skitr (May 14, 2011)

Apparently even Maclean himself has no belief it will go through.


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## xenon (May 14, 2011)

Fucking outrageous. That's all I can say ATM.


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## xenon (May 14, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because life peers get to choose where their title is related to, and because the media condense the title. What MacLean actually is, is the Lord MacLean of Blencathra, baron Blencathra.


 

Or an odeous parrisiticle old cunt, in common parlence.


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## laptop (May 14, 2011)

skitr said:


> Apparently even Maclean himself has no belief it will go through.


 
This is normal for amendments at Committee stage. 

Most are put up solely to give the proposer the chance to stand up and say their piece. 

Others are "probing amendments" whose function is to get the governmen't attitude in response on record. This can be important if the courts later have to look into what Parliament intended the Bill/Act to mean.

These aren't intended to be passed - or even voted on - either.

I'll be contacting relevant people in the morning.


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## ViolentPanda (May 16, 2011)

xenon said:


> Or an odeous parrisiticle old cunt, in common parlence.


 
Yep, a leprous pus-filled scrotal boil of a man, with less right to be alive than a traffic warden.


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## laptop (May 16, 2011)

I am reliably informed that the government will not be supporting this: a Lord replies to my query "Certainly not, laptop!"

So it won't be passing, even in the unlikely event that Blencathra tries to push it to a vote in Committee on Wednesday.


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## skitr (May 16, 2011)

laptop said:


> I am reliably informed that the government will not be supporting this: a Lord replies to my query "Certainly not, laptop!"
> 
> So it won't be passing, even in the unlikely event that Blencathra tries to push it to a vote in Committee on Wednesday.


 
I had similar responses from similar contacts


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## A380 (May 22, 2011)

Not sure this will pass, or is meant to. For a start its got the Met ranks wrong (It misses out DAC); an act can't say that somthing that breaches a Human Rights Convention (as under the HRA) won't be actionable - because it will (you would need to derogate from the convention for that); and all distances in legislation need to be in metric units not imperial.*

This has got as much chance of passing as a thing with not much chance. Probably designed to divert the Daily Mail away from his lordship's expenses used to do up his farm house before he floggged it.

(* apart from speeds and pints of beer....)


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## laptop (May 22, 2011)

There is, however, in the Bill the "Make Brian Haw &co illegal - at last" provision, Clauses 143 and following.

Would mean that police could seize camping equiment and loudhailers within the Square. 

Baroness Hamwee, Lord Shipley & Baroness Miller Of Chilthorne Domer have put up amendments (244ZA & following) removing powers of police to tell people off for things they haven't done yet and allowing some loudhailers.


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## Piggy (May 25, 2011)

:O how have i not heard of this?? They are going to have to amend _at least_ that bit.. its got quite far for an utterly ridiculous bill though hasnt it?!


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## Streathamite (May 29, 2011)

i'm gonna get my MP on to this
it's also worth seeing if this contravenes European law


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## Piggy (May 30, 2011)

I would get mine on but he's a bit rubbish to be fair. :/


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## sim667 (Jun 6, 2011)

I would get mine on it, but he's currently involved in a expenses and having a gay affair outside of his marriage scandal atm 

Plus he's a cunt tbh.


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