# South Beach bar/Scala cinema on Brixton Hill - history, discussion



## supercity (Aug 17, 2012)

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I can't find it.

Looks like South Beach on Brixton Hill (ex camping shop) finally lost its licence at the end of July after over a year of complaints from police and locals.

There's a To Let sign up. Don't suppose anyone fancies re-opening it as a cinema?


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## supercity (Aug 17, 2012)

Postscript: Just Googled the licence holder to discover she's set up another bar in Peckham.


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## Rushy (Aug 17, 2012)

I will miss sitting at the table outside Pizza Ring with a plate of chips watching well dressed ladies scream at each other on the other side of the road.


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## kalibuzz (Aug 17, 2012)

Black bars don't last long in Brixton, always been like that, whatever the reasons are


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## quimcunx (Aug 17, 2012)

Shame although everything I hear about it on here suggests it wasn't well liked by local residents. 

Perhaps WhirledArt would be interested.  I believe membership is closed at its LJ venue.


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## twistedAM (Aug 17, 2012)

South Beach is open tonight; looks quite the party on.


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## fortyplus (Aug 18, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> Black bars don't last long in Brixton, always been like that, whatever the reasons are


perhaps they should've painted it a different colour then.


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## CH1 (Aug 18, 2012)

supercity said:


> Postscript: Just Googled the licence holder to discover she's set up another bar in Peckham.


Maybe Southwark will give her "monitoring support" then. I bet Lambeth Licensing did SFA as regards monitoring. Lambeth Licensing seem to operate like Tescos: pile it high and sell it cheap - and swamp the market!


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## CH1 (Aug 18, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> Black bars don't last long in Brixton, always been like that, whatever the reasons are


Rubbish - the Angel lasted over 50 years before the family took their money and ran.
The Effra Hall Tavern in Kellett Road is black owned - has been since the mid 80s at least.
What are you talking about son?


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## supercity (Aug 18, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> South Beach is open tonight; looks quite the party on.


Yeah, I saw that and was mystified. Reading police reports of application revocation, it seems that the licensees really didn't give a stuff about the law, locals, fire regulations, planning permission, crime etc etc. So perhaps they've just decided to open anyway.


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## CH1 (Aug 18, 2012)

supercity said:


> Yeah, I saw that and was mystified. Reading police reports of application revocation, it seems that the licensees really didn't give a stuff about the law, locals, fire regulations, planning permission, crime etc etc. So perhaps they've just decided to open anyway.


There is only one fate worse than being CLOSED - being taken over by Lexadon/Brickbox!


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## twistedAM (Aug 19, 2012)

It looked closed tonight but I was only going past about 945


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## kalibuzz (Aug 19, 2012)

CH1 said:


> Rubbish - the Angel lasted over 50 years before the family took their money and ran.
> The Effra Hall Tavern in Kellett Road is black owned - has been since the mid 80s at least.
> What are you talking about son?


Talking about bars that appeal to a young, dancehall crowd, not some old arse pub. Also not 'black owned', but 'black clients', can hardly say that of the Effra anymore, and the Angel, well, there is a whole thread about that


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## fortyplus (Aug 19, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> Talking about bars that appeal to a young, dancehall crowd, not some old arse pub. Also not 'black owned', but 'black clients', can hardly say that of the Effra anymore, and the Angel, well, there is a whole thread about that


I think we know what you meant, but I'm uncomfortable with the language.
Had you said "white bars" you would, quite rightly, have been jumped on. I never went to the South Beach bar; I never got the impression that I would be made to feel welcome. It's not my kind of place, and while skin colour is undeniably a factor, I don't think it's the only one. I'm quite sure loads of black people of my age would feel just the same about it, and there are plenty of places where the clientele is predominantly white I'd feel just as uncomfortable going to. 
In any case, I'm not sure you're right about the longevity of such places. Nightspots, of their nature, tend to have a limited life. They go out of fashion, their customers grow up and the next generation wants to go anywhere else, or the triangle of  doorstaff, dealers and police (which must be a nightmare to manage) goes badly wrong. Places like 414 are the exceptions.


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## kalibuzz (Aug 19, 2012)

I know what you mean, but at the end of the day, some pubs/bars are predominantly black or white frequented  ( stressing the predominantly) and to say that is  not something I believe justifies to be 'jumped on' but just stating a fact and why not name things for what they are. I never said anyone (of whatever colour/age) was not welcome there, I said young, black crowd, because that is who was in there mainly, and yes, they might have upset the neighbours (complaints) but the police has shut down many 'black' clubs, as they don't want the type of crowd, fact. I remember nights at Plan B (like 2004/5) when the Djs explicitly said that management disallowed them plaing real dancehall for fear of attracting 'the wrong crowd' , keeping it mainstream.  You said you felt it would not be welcoming to you, be it colour or age, does not really matter, but those places are important for the crowd that goes for many reasons, (identity etc) so closing them down is a  loss for Brixton, there really is not much to do for the youngsters, same applies to music bar, used to put on dances and stuff


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## Gramsci (Aug 21, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> but those places are important for the crowd that goes for many reasons, (identity etc) so closing them down is a loss for Brixton, there really is not much to do for the youngsters, same applies to music bar, used to put on dances and stuff


 
This used to be a camping shop-ie retail shop. Not traditionally a bar.

Reading the first post there has been a history of complaints about noise etc from residents. I fully sympathise with them. Its really hard to get a license taken away. This is not a loss for Brixton. If anything it helps to keep Brixton a residential area as well as a retail and entertainment area.


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## editor (Aug 21, 2012)

supercity said:


> There's a To Let sign up. Don't suppose anyone fancies re-opening it as a cinema?


AFAIK, it's lost the space at the back where the cinema was.


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## editor (Aug 21, 2012)

The Brixton 'Sports' and Social Club is still going strong, and that's been black-run for decades.

It's not exactly what I'd call a welcoming kind of place though, more's the pity.


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## Rushy (Aug 21, 2012)

editor said:


> AFAIK, it's lost the space at the back where the cinema was.


That's the job centre and flats.


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## kalibuzz (Aug 21, 2012)

editor said:


> The Brixton 'Sports' and Social Club is still going strong, and that's been black-run for decades.
> 
> It's not exactly what I'd call a welcoming kind of place though, more's the pity.


and I'd hardly call that a 'to go' place for youngsters, more like a domino/bouncy castle place


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## kalibuzz (Aug 21, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> This used to be a camping shop-ie retail shop. Not traditionally a bar.
> 
> Reading the first post there has been a history of complaints about noise etc from residents. I fully sympathise with them. Its really hard to get a license taken away. This is not a loss for Brixton. If anything it helps to keep Brixton a residential area as well as a retail and entertainment area.


same has happened with the White Horse opposite, neighbours complaining etc, years ago, nobody cared about the residents there


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## fortyplus (Aug 21, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> This used to be a camping shop-ie retail shop. Not traditionally a bar.
> 
> Reading the first post there has been a history of complaints about noise etc from residents. I fully sympathise with them. Its really hard to get a license taken away. This is not a loss for Brixton. If anything it helps to keep Brixton a residential area as well as a retail and entertainment area.


Populations age, breed, the same people who party hard and shriek as they leave the club, a year later are struggling with a screaming infant woken by another group's whooping outside their window or the bass coming through the foundations. The smoking ban has moved a lot of nightlife outdoors which hasn't helped the noise problem.  Licensing and the police's form 969 makes it harder for venues to put on a certain type of music, and there's a whole minefield of racist assumptions I'd rather not go through.  Brixton needs diversity in its nightlife (what the council calls "the night-time economy") as much as it does in the daytime, and I think that with the closure of this bar it has just  become somewhat less diverse.  In many ways it may be seen as more of a loss than GIV, which was recently just another me-too music bar. Perhaps the South Bar crowd is the one the GIV should try to attract if it is ever reprieved from becoming a Tesco.


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## Gramsci (Aug 21, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Populations age, breed, the same people who party hard and shriek as they leave the club, a year later are struggling with a screaming infant woken by another group's whooping outside their window or the bass coming through the foundations. The smoking ban has moved a lot of nightlife outdoors which hasn't helped the noise problem. Licensing and the police's form 969 makes it harder for venues to put on a certain type of music, and there's a whole minefield of racist assumptions I'd rather not go through. Brixton needs diversity in its nightlife (what the council calls "the night-time economy") as much as it does in the daytime, and I think that with the closure of this bar it has just become somewhat less diverse. In many ways it may be seen as more of a loss than GIV, which was recently just another me-too music bar. Perhaps the South Bar crowd is the one the GIV should try to attract if it is ever reprieved from becoming a Tesco.


 

I am sick and tired of hearing about "racist assumptions" re licensing . Ive been helping some (long time not "gentrifiers") residents up the road from me with noise issues. The "racist assumptions" has been used periodically. As if white people making the same level of noise from there business would not produce complaints from residents.

It has nothing to do with age. It was not smoking ban it was the "liberalising" of licensing a few years back that caused these problems. Pubs turned into "vertical" drinking establishments with sound systems put in. Late night quiet "lock ins" were not a problem.

Also change of use from retail to A3 is to easy. There is not a lack of licensed bars and clubs in central Brixton. In fact there are more licensed establishments in Brixton area than when I first came here. So I do not see your point about lack of night life.

"bass coming through foundations"- if clubs abided by the planning and licensing conditions this would not happen. From reading most of the report on this case in post one its the usual story of the under resourced noise control trying to deal with complaints from residents. Club owners know that Lambeths Noise Control section is not up to it.

I live in central Brixton and am reasonable open minded. Most noise from street I can cope with, however I do not see why I or my neighbours should have to deal with thumping Bass. This does come through brickwork. This is what a lot of complaints are about. Its why clubs/bars are supposed to have (functioning) noise limiters.

If people want to run a business they can do it in a way that does not cause others disturbance. It should not be a problem. Business owners are granted planning permission or a license with conditions. If these conditions are kept to then residents are happy and the business keeps going.The conditions are so that there can be an entertainment sector mixed in with a residents .South Bar did not do this and lost there license.

Its clear from reading up the report about South Bar that they were seriously pissing of the Cops. As the cops say they were having to spend a lot of time on it. See this from report:

" The original review of the licence in 2011 came after a Section 161 closure order was issued due to serious violence"

The report about South Beach is an example of a license being taken away due to Police complaints. This is about the only time it happens. It is one of the few ways to get it done.

Its clear from report the the business owners did not care about nearby residents. They were given a chance to clean up there act and didn't. They had there license taken away before and then reinstated with conditions. I think this is what made the Committee revoke there license. The fact that they had not learnt or changed. See here from report section from Police statement:


On the night of 9-10 March, Sgt Strange and PC Edmondson visited South Beach at 12.30am and observed the premises. There were still queues outside at 12.50pm even though no entry was permitted after 12.30am. At 1.15am, they spoke to the Designated Premises Supervisor, Mr Eric Okoro, and informed him that the venue should be closed. They also drew attention to the metal arch and club scan. They left the venue at 1.20am but returned at 2.25am whereupon the DJ was still playing music, the bar was serving, customers were dancing and the metal arch was not being used
They had no faith in the management of venue to abide by its licence conditions and therefore sought revocation of the licence


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## Gramsci (Aug 21, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> same has happened with the White Horse opposite, neighbours complaining etc, years ago, nobody cared about the residents there


 
And why do u think that was?


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## el-ahrairah (Aug 22, 2012)

coming back from the albert one sunday morning about 3 i went into peri-peri for some chips.  whilst i was there a couple of the security from south beach came in, demanded (aggressively) some food, which they took without paying.  according the guy behind the counter this was pretty standard and meant that at least the security would help if someone took offense to peri-peri.  it was done nastily though, not in the spirit of two neighbours looking out for each other.

south beach has a long history of not getting on with the neighbours.  whether justified or not, they get the blame for parking issues and noise / ASB that happens on the side roads.  i've seen a lot of fights, cars blocking the road and others hooting their horns in the early hours, people hanging around parked cars with heavy bass music going on (again, in the early hours).  on sunday morning the street is littered with plastic cups and bottles.  i've seen people pissing, shitting, and shagging up against the walls and in teh gardens of the houses.

is this all due to SB punters?  i haven't a clue, i don't do a survey.  but SB get the blame, because most of this stuff happens over about a hour period when SB kicks out.  If I was them I'd have run a tight ship given the animosity from the neighbours, make sure licensing couldn't get me for anything.


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## Rushy (Aug 22, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> I am sick and tired of hearing about "racist assumptions" re licensing . Ive been helping some (long time not "gentrifiers") residents up the road from me with noise issues. The "racist assumptions" has been used periodically. As if white people making the same level of noise from there business would not produce complaints from residents.
> 
> It has nothing to do with age. It was not smoking ban it was the "liberalising" of licensing a few years back that caused these problems. Pubs turned into "vertical" drinking establishments with sound systems put in. Late night quiet "lock ins" were not a problem.
> 
> ...


 

Great post.


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## Rushy (Aug 22, 2012)

fortyplus said:


> Licensing and the police's form 969 makes it harder for venues to put on a certain type of music, and there's a whole minefield of racist assumptions I'd rather not go through. Brixton needs diversity in its nightlife (what the council calls "the night-time economy") as much as it does in the daytime, and I think that with the closure of this bar it has just become somewhat less diverse. In many ways it may be seen as more of a loss than GIV, which was recently just another me-too music bar. Perhaps the South Bar crowd is the one the GIV should try to attract if it is ever reprieved from becoming a Tesco.


 

To suggest that bars are harried because of the race of their customers is a bit simplistic. The Fridge Bar, also on Brixton Hill, is a black bar - almost 100%. They used to have only a basement dance floor and small speakers upstairs. Now they have a massive system at street level too. Their 24hr license carries no noise limit restrictions. They leave doors open with music blaring, people shout and scream outside on a regular basis, punters park their cars in the St Matthews Church car park and whack their stereos on and I've even videoed them chanting to the music at 2 or 3am on a Wednesday morning. But noise control and licensing take a softly softly approach with them. After 15 complaints on more or less consecutive Wednesday mornings (and only after the involvement of a councillor) noise control agreed to monitor the venue. After months of requests for an update on their monitoring noise control reported that their investigation had concluded that there was no nuisance and that they would consequently not support the addition of noise conditions to the licence (such as keeping the doors closed, or fitting a limiter). When the monitoring details were requested it turned out that it had been observed twice by an officer three months earlier: The first check was for 10 minutes at 9.30pm on a Friday, half an hour before the club was advertised as even opening; The second was 10 minutes on a Saturday at opening time. There was no monitoring carried out at the regular reported time or day of disturbance. No one replied to any questions about their rational for their monitoring method. That's not lack of resource - that is unbelievable incompetence and contempt for residents.


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## kalibuzz (Aug 22, 2012)

Rushy said:


> To suggest that bars are harried because of the race of their customers is a bit simplistic. The Fridge Bar, also on Brixton Hill, is a black bar - almost 100%. They used to have only a basement dance floor and small speakers upstairs. Now they have a massive system at street level too. Their 24hr license carries no noise limit restrictions. They leave doors open with music blaring, people shout and scream outside on a regular basis, punters park their cars in the St Matthews Church car park and whack their stereos on and I've even videoed them chanting to the music at 2 or 3am on a Wednesday morning. But noise control and licensing take a softly softly approach with them. After 15 complaints on more or less consecutive Wednesday mornings (and only after the involvement of a councillor) noise control agreed to monitor the venue. After months of requests for an update on their monitoring noise control reported that their investigation had concluded that there was no nuisance and that they would consequently not support the addition of noise conditions to the licence (such as keeping the doors closed, or fitting a limiter). When the monitoring details were requested it turned out that it had been observed twice by an officer three months earlier: The first check was for 10 minutes at 9.30pm on a Friday, half an hour before the club was advertised as even opening; The second was 10 minutes on a Saturday at opening time. There was no monitoring carried out at the regular reported time or day of disturbance. No one replied to any questions about their rational for their monitoring method. That's not lack of resource - that is unbelievable incompetence and contempt for residents.


there seems to be a lot of videoing and monitoring of noise going on, maybe a suburb would be better suited


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## DJWrongspeed (Aug 22, 2012)

I'd love to rent it again as a camping shop, pleasant, idle retirement proposition


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## Gramsci (Aug 22, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> there seems to be a lot of videoing and monitoring of noise going on, maybe a suburb would be better suited


 
Better suited for what reason? The Council wont deal with these issues. As Rushy has pointed out. You are left with no other option than getting evidence oneself. 

I have had to do this recently myself.


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## Gramsci (Aug 22, 2012)

Rushy said:


> . But noise control and licensing take a softly softly approach with them. After 15 complaints on more or less consecutive Wednesday mornings (and only after the involvement of a councillor) noise control agreed to monitor the venue. After months of requests for an update on their monitoring noise control reported that their investigation had concluded that there was no nuisance and that they would consequently not support the addition of noise conditions to the licence (such as keeping the doors closed, or fitting a limiter). When the monitoring details were requested it turned out that it had been observed twice by an officer three months earlier: The first check was for 10 minutes at 9.30pm on a Friday, half an hour before the club was advertised as even opening; The second was 10 minutes on a Saturday at opening time. There was no monitoring carried out at the regular reported time or day of disturbance. No one replied to any questions about their rational for their monitoring method. That's not lack of resource - that is unbelievable incompetence and contempt for residents.


 
The officers are probably a bit scared of Fridge Bar. I noticed with the Beach Bar it was the police who were telling them they were not following the license conditions.

Its clear reading up the report of Beach Bar that it was a patronised by the local gangster community.

I've been dealing with a planning/ licensing issue where I have been warned to be careful due to some of the people associated with it. I knew this anyway. Its looks like its being dealt with because the police are (correctly) interested in it for other reasons.

I did ask the Noise control officers to explain to me what they classify as a statutory noise nuisance. They were not keen in putting anything in writing. But verbally told me it depended on "context". Basically they do not like recording a statutory noise nuisance as it means they have to act on it.

The Noise control officers are understaffed and under resourced. I blame the Council for this. The Council big up Brixton as an entertainment area and have encouraged it over the years ( Brixton Challenge onwards). But they will not do anything to protect the long standing residential community in central Brixton. Some of whom were here before the increase in late night commercial entertainment.


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## Gramsci (Aug 22, 2012)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I'd love to rent it again as a camping shop, pleasant, idle retirement proposition


 
Yes I liked the camping shop.


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## Rushy (Aug 23, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> The Council big up Brixton as an entertainment area and have encouraged it over the years ( Brixton Challenge onwards). But they will not do anything to protect the long standing residential community in central Brixton. Some of whom were here before the increase in late night commercial entertainment.


 
Which is a shame, because I don't think it would be all that hard to find a workable balance. Most of the noise problems could be dealt with by good management - upgrading sound proofing in line with upgrading sound systems, having sound proof lobbies where the sound systems are close to open doors, adherence to operating schedules, etc..


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## Rushy (Aug 23, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> there seems to be a lot of videoing and monitoring of noise going on, maybe a suburb would be better suited


 
All ideas are welcome but I'm afraid that moving the Fridge Bar to the suburbs seems a bit extreme to me.


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## editor (Aug 23, 2012)

I went past the South Bar last night and it is indeed 100% closed now.


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## kalibuzz (Aug 23, 2012)

Rushy said:


> All ideas are welcome but I'm afraid that moving the Fridge Bar to the suburbs seems a bit extreme to me.


lol I meant you, no offence


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## twistedAM (Aug 23, 2012)

editor said:


> I went past the South Bar last night and it is indeed 100% closed now.


 
Music Bar looks that way too. That leaves the White Horse as the only drinking establishment on Brixton  Hill between Fridge Bar  and the south circular.


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## Chilavert (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Music Bar looks that way too. That leaves the White Horse as the only drinking establishment on Brixton  Hill between Fridge Bar  and the south circular.


The Gallery/Lisboa Grill has Sagres on tap, but admittedly that isn't great if you're a real ale fan. The EPT is only just off the Hill as well.


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## TruXta (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Music Bar looks that way too. That leaves the White Horse as the only drinking establishment on Brixton Hill between Fridge Bar and the south circular.


 
Not on the hill, but you've got the EPT as Chilavert says, and the Hand in Hand as well. Plus that Spoons on the top.


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## twistedAM (Aug 23, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Not on the hill, but you've got the EPT as Chilavert says, and the Hand in Hand as well. Plus that Spoons on the top.


 
The Windmill and Mango Landing too but they're not ON the hill, nor is the Sultan which is closer to Brickers than HiH.
I  referred to that Spoons (the Crown and Sceptre), as it's on the South Circular.


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## TruXta (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah, well apart from that bit around the White Horse and further up by New Park Road I dunno that there are any great places for a pub on the hill. Music Bar I suppose...


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## Rushy (Aug 23, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> lol I meant you, no offence


 
I know KB. I was politely shrugging off your somewhat feckless remark whilst taking a casual pop at your inability to construct a clear sentence. I'll keep it simpler for you next time.

No offence. LOL.


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## Rushy (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Music Bar looks that way too. That leaves the White Horse as the only drinking establishment on Brixton Hill between Fridge Bar and the south circular.


 
It's quite possible the SB venue could open up again under new management. None of the licensing report suggests any objection to the principle of there being an A3/A4 establishment there. Just not one which is run incompetently / inconsiderately.

It was never really a "pop-in-for-a-pint" kind of place anyway, or was it?


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## Tolpuddle (Aug 23, 2012)

editor said:


> I went past the South Bar last night and it is indeed 100% closed now.


 
They don't have a licence during the week, weekends only.


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## Rushy (Aug 23, 2012)

I've received a mail shot dated 21 August from Cllr Nosegbe headed "Brixton Town Centre Bars & Nightclubs" and inviting comments and complaints. It specifically refers to Electric Social, Veranda, Electric Brixton and the Fridge Bar. I've tried to upload it but think the file was too big - I'll try again later.


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## twistedAM (Aug 23, 2012)

Rushy said:


> It's quite possible the SB venue could open up again under new management. None of the licensing report suggests any objection to the principle of there being an A3/A4 establishment there. Just not one which is run incompetently / inconsiderately.
> 
> It was never really a "pop-in-for-a-pint" kind of place anyway, or was it?


 
No but when it opened it was a bit more classy and might even have done food; think it changed owners.


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## tarannau (Aug 23, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> Yes I liked the camping shop.


 
Heh, my mum had her first job in this country at that place. The owner was a remarkable character by all accounts, with all sorts of bulk surplus/uniform deals elsewhere propping up the business on Brixton Hill. 

Sadly we're not likely to see the likes of a simple shop again. Unless someone else can use that huge basement as a kind of storehouse for a combined shopfront/online operation.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Music Bar looks that way too. That leaves the White Horse as the only drinking establishment on Brixton Hill between Fridge Bar and the south circular.


 
There's still people living there though. Wonder how long they're going to be there


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> The Windmill and Mango Landing too but they're not ON the hill, nor is the Sultan which is closer to Brickers than HiH.
> I referred to that Spoons (the Crown and Sceptre), as it's on the South Circular.


 
and none of them are open in the daytime (except the New Park Road ones)


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## twistedAM (Aug 23, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> There's still people living there though. Wonder how long they're going to be there


 
 I did ask them but the girls I know that live there are away at the moment so didn't get a reply.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> I did ask them but the girls I know that live there are away at the moment so didn't get a reply.


 
Wonder how many people live there.  Always seeing different people on the roof


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## twistedAM (Aug 23, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Wonder how many people live there. Always seeing different people on the roof


 
About six that I know of. Tesco could keep them on though. Lots of people live over shops. They'd get to bed earlier.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> About six that I know of. Tesco could keep them on though. Lots of people live over shops. They'd get to bed earlier.


 
Maybe.  Bit of security for the place I suppose until they decide to chuck them out. 

They could let the employees stay up there nice and cheap.  It's not like supermarket employees are paid a fortune


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## twistedAM (Aug 23, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe. Bit of security for the place I suppose until they decide to chuck them out.
> 
> They could let the employees stay up there nice and cheap. It's not like supermarket employees are paid a fortune


 
Let's not evict people just yet.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 23, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> Let's not evict people just yet.


 
Well I wasn't planning to personally 

It is Tesco after all, do you think they'd give a shit? 

Wonder if it's a package.  Does upstairs automatically come with the ground floor, or can the place be converted so it's private accommodation upstairs?


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## twistedAM (Aug 23, 2012)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Well I wasn't planning to personally
> 
> It is Tesco after all, do you think they'd give a shit?
> 
> Wonder if it's a package. Does upstairs automatically come with the ground floor, or can the place be converted so it's private accommodation upstairs?


 
I dunno; I'll talk to the ladies next week


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## Gramsci (Aug 23, 2012)

tarannau said:


> Heh, my mum had her first job in this country at that place. The owner was a remarkable character by all accounts, with all sorts of bulk surplus/uniform deals elsewhere propping up the business on Brixton Hill.
> 
> Sadly we're not likely to see the likes of a simple shop again. Unless someone else can use that huge basement as a kind of storehouse for a combined shopfront/online operation.


 
It was one of the last "army surplus" plus camping shops. Used to be loads of army surplus shops but u do not get them now. I liked going up there to have a look at what he had for sale.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 23, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> It was one of the last "army surplus" plus camping shops. Used to be loads of army surplus shops but u do not get them now. I liked going up there to have a look at what he had for sale.


 
It was indeed a great shop


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## kalibuzz (Aug 23, 2012)

Rushy said:


> I know KB. I was politely shrugging off your somewhat feckless remark whilst taking a casual pop at your inability to construct a clear sentence. I'll keep it simpler for you next time.
> 
> No offence. LOL.


ha ha nice try, is that all you can come up with?


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## kalibuzz (Aug 23, 2012)

Rushy said:


> It's quite possible the SB venue could open up again under new management. None of the licensing report suggests any objection to the principle of there being an A3/A4 establishment there. Just not one which is run incompetently / inconsiderately.
> 
> It was never really a "pop-in-for-a-pint" kind of place anyway, or was it?


 
it was a club, not a 'pop in for a pint venue', but this is what the problem seems to be: feeling excluded, when there would be no problem at all to pop in for a pint, and now it's become a shit and piss and shag in the park clientele with gangsters running the door and protection racket for a piri-piri kebab or whatever they sell. Flipping ridiculous,but I rest my case, in a decade or so people will move to the areas where it's gritty and 'street' because Brixton will have become sanitised like Clapham


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2012)

Tolpuddle said:


> They don't have a licence during the week, weekends only.


It had a huge "To Let" sign stuck on the front. It's closed alright.


----------



## twistedAM (Aug 24, 2012)

editor said:


> It had a huge "To Let" sign stuck on the front. It's closed alright.


 
I'm pretty sure that was up last Friday when they were partying hard.


----------



## quimcunx (Aug 24, 2012)

It was. I guess they were having one last party.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 24, 2012)

kalibuzz said:


> ha ha nice try, is that all you can come up with?


 
Yep. I recognise that I am floundering in your ocean of incisive analysis and wit and I give in.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 24, 2012)




----------



## DJWrongspeed (Aug 24, 2012)

Maybe it could be a new trance venue, that lot are very persistent they techno for an answer,  boom boom !


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2012)

Actually, I hope you don't mind, but I think this deserves a thread of its own...

Thread here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...t-clubs-and-venues-in-central-brixton.298237/


----------



## colacubes (Aug 24, 2012)

editor said:


> Not to belittle the real annoyance of loud noise, but I do wonder what percentage of these complaints are from people movig into the old squats of Rushcroft Road.
> 
> Market House is hardly a 'new' venue given that there's been a late bar there for over ten years (save its 'fish market' months).
> 
> Actually, I hope you don't mind, but I think this deserves a thread of its own...


 
Tbf the letter, although mentioning Market House as new venue, doesn't mention it as one of the venues being looked at.  It also doesn't mention Brixton Club House and that is really fucking noisy.


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Tbf the letter, although mentioning Market House as new venue, doesn't mention it as one of the venues being looked at. It also doesn't mention Brixton Club House and that is really fucking noisy.


Sorry! I snipped that comment and shunted it over to the new thread in the hope of keeping this thread on topic!


----------



## leanderman (Aug 27, 2012)

South Beach was busy again last night.

And everyone arrives by car.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 27, 2012)

On a Sunday? WTF


----------



## quimcunx (Aug 27, 2012)

Bank holiday today.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 27, 2012)

Of course...


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## supercity (Aug 27, 2012)

Still baffled by the whole thing. The licence revoking seemed pretty categorical to me.


----------



## fortyplus (Aug 27, 2012)

So, it was an illegal rave. 
May have lost the licence, but not the keys.
Perhaps a bit dim of the licensee, but maybe she will claim it was nothing to do with her, honest guv.


----------



## RaverDrew (Aug 27, 2012)

leanderman said:


> South Beach was busy again last night.
> 
> And everyone arrives by car.


 
The huge posters outside advertising their Carnival party were sort of a giveaway that this might happen tbf.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 27, 2012)

It may have been done on a Temporary Event Notice TEN.


----------



## beareis (Aug 29, 2012)

What if all these places become churches?


----------



## twistedAM (Aug 29, 2012)

beareis said:


> What if all these places become churches?


 
Even more parking chaos.


----------



## beareis (Aug 29, 2012)

Or supermarkets?


----------



## twistedAM (Aug 29, 2012)

beareis said:


> Or supermarkets?


 
We could have a supermarket theme park along that stretch of Brixton Hill.
Actually there's nothing super about Tescos or the other shops for that matter.


----------



## leanderman (Aug 30, 2012)

twistedAM said:


> We could have a supermarket theme park along that stretch of Brixton Hill.
> Actually there's nothing super about Tescos or the other shops for that matter.


 
I heard one prospective bidder wants to use South Beach as a gay club.

And, apparently, the landlords are owed a fair bit of back rent.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 30, 2012)

leanderman said:


> I heard one prospective bidder wants to use South Beach as a gay club.


 
They could put the old yellow sign back up
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/scala.html


----------



## leanderman (Aug 30, 2012)

Rushy said:


> They could put the old yellow sign back up
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/scala.html


 
Amazing. Another world!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 30, 2012)

I used to get me woolly hats in that camping shop......

........progress makes my head cold.


----------



## Chilavert (Aug 30, 2012)

beareis said:


> Or supermarkets?


Waitrose?


----------



## laluna (Feb 12, 2013)

Hi peeps,
I live on the Hill and have observed with interest the rise and demise of the South Beach Bar due to ongoing noise levels and problems with the police.

The beautiful old Empress Scala Dome (albeit matt black now) has always appealed to the ageing hippy in me. Local friends and I have approached the landlord to enquire about leasing the premises for a community-led and socially-minded cafe (possibly locally sourced vegan/veggie fare?) and arts/discussion/meetup space. Mr Khan seems amenable to exploring the idea which is encouraging enough!

Trouble is, long-time Brixxy Hill folk are mostly not unlike myself, just-about-managing breadwinners, struggling artists and students at the University of Life and financial backing is hard to find for such valiant ventures. Although if passion were a commodity we'd certainly be quids in 

A lot of things to consider such as:

Is Mango Landin' already enough of a local community hub? are there enough people living on the Hill to sustain another? bearing in mind ML cannot accommodate larger events/screenings and community-inspired courses/talks/meetings and is essentially still a bar serving alcohol albeit a very nice one - discuss

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions on fundraising, available grants/potential users/interested parties and general discussion most welcome!


----------



## story (Feb 12, 2013)

Please don't say _peeps_.

Please don't say _Brixxy_.

Other than that, it's all good


----------



## story (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd love for the old camping shop to be brought back to something approaching glory


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## Kanda (Feb 12, 2013)

Never going to happen. The guy that owns Khan restaurant owns it (and a few others on that row) and wants £1k/week for rent!! He eventually wants to build a hotel there... he was in no mood to even consider any offers when we spoke to him about taking the place on.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Feb 12, 2013)

see above, whilst i'd love to see it back again it's clear that the owners have plans.


----------



## gaijingirl (Feb 12, 2013)

I think it's a lovely idea and would certainly be supportive but I fear that Kanda is probably right.... it's such a shame.


----------



## gaijingirl (Feb 12, 2013)

good luck though and welcome to the boards


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 12, 2013)

great idea laluna - and I expect there would be a lot of support for it in principle - but I can't see how it can pay for itself if Khans want £1k a week for the building. 

There may, however, be alternative venue possibilities if you wanted to pursue the idea. There's still wrangling going on about the fate of Bradys and George IV still hasn't been Tesco-ified yet....


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 12, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Never going to happen. The guy that owns Khan restaurant owns it (and a few others on that row) and wants £1k/week for rent!! He eventually wants to build a hotel there... he was in no mood to even consider any offers when we spoke to him about taking the place on.


Are you sure he's serious about that price? That seems massively over the odds compared with other local commercial premises. For example, the old bike shop on Coldharbour Lane - a very large unit in central Brixton - is also £1k a week.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 12, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Are you sure he's serious about that price? That seems massively over the odds compared with other local commercial premises. For example, the old bike shop on Coldharbour Lane - a very large unit in central Brixton - is also £1k a week.


 
Absolutely. The place is MASSIVE inside though, across 2 floors. That was the price for the ground floor though!!! We did laugh at him when he told us...


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd love to see what remains of this fine old building being put to good use, but I fear there's little prospect of it happening. I imagine the best you might hope for would be a temporary use of the space while the owners try and locate the next short-lived venture to take it over.

Good luck though. I'm pretty sure you can count of the support of several people here.


----------



## laluna (Feb 12, 2013)

Wow, thanks for all your responses and thanks for the welcome gaijingirl!

LOL @ Story - apologies it's an old, bad habit. I AM a bit sentiMENTAL about the term 'Brixxy' tho' 

Ya'll may be right about the rental he is after - when we spoke to him last week he was asking for around £65k/annum for the entire premises - he also said he was in no rush to rent it out, clearly  We never consider going in that high especially if we are looking to apply for grant funding.  If alternative locations on the Hill, as Brixton Hatter mentioned, do become available at more competitive rates we'd defo consider them as alternatives.

Interested in what your original pitch to him was Kanda?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 12, 2013)

story said:


> Please don't say _peeps_.
> 
> Please don't say _Brixxy_.
> 
> Other than that, it's all good


 
Got there before me


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 12, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Are you sure he's serious about that price? That seems massively over the odds compared with other local commercial premises. For example, the old bike shop on Coldharbour Lane - a very large unit in central Brixton - is also £1k a week.


 
He's been sitting on it for years and years. 

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/old-cinema-camping-shop.110137/#post-3713308


----------



## gaijingirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> He's been sitting on it for years and years.
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/old-cinema-camping-shop.110137/#post-3713308


 
look.. the rent was 1K a week back then - in 2006!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 12, 2013)

gaijingirl said:


> look.. the rent was 1K a week back then - in 2006!


 
He's been sitting on it for over 10 years.  This post is from 2004

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/khans-opposite-george-canning.2788/#post-153123


----------



## supercity (Feb 12, 2013)

There are some landlords who adopt an enlightened approach to their rents, taking the view that some money is better than no money, and that a successful, alternative business might eventually attract other businesses and push rents up. Mr Khan is not known to be one of those landlords. It's a shame as far as the cinema/tent shop goes, because it's a great building. While he owns it, I fear it's doomed, since the only biz that's ever made money on those premises, under his ownership, was a nightclub that drove local residents crazy. You'd need nightclub-like footfall but without the attendant local hassle just to pay the bills.


----------



## laluna (Feb 12, 2013)

I'm inclined to agree supercity, probability is looking pretty grim...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 12, 2013)

laluna said:


> I'm inclined to agree supercity, probability is looking pretty grim...


 
Worth looking at the George IV?


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Feb 12, 2013)

A temporary arts space is more realistic, say 3-6mth where peoples enthusiasm can be focussed. Go for a peppercorn rent and see what he says.


----------



## Yelkcub (Feb 12, 2013)

Wassupp Brixxy Peeps! Where do I sign?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 12, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> A temporary arts space is more realistic, say 3-6mth where peoples enthusiasm can be focussed. Go for a peppercorn rent and see what he says.


 
Khan accept a peppercorn rent?!

(Although I think on one of the old threads, it was mentioned that he let someone have it free for 3 months, but that was years ago)


----------



## Yelkcub (Feb 12, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> A temporary arts space is more realistic, say 3-6mth where peoples enthusiasm can be focussed. Go for a peppercorn rent and see what he says.


 
He's recently demanded a grand a week and left it empty when not met, why would he give it away?


----------



## Kanda (Feb 12, 2013)

laluna said:


> Interested in what your original pitch to him was Kanda?


 
Food/Restuarant/Bar. We wasn't specific cos it has bugger all to do with him really. I'll never do business with that man.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 12, 2013)

He'll sit on it so he can get change of use...


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2013)

laluna you could ask to see if the Angel on Coldharbour Lane is available as that's still empty after Brick Box used it for events for the community their social network chums.


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2013)

Yelkcub said:


> He's recently demanded a grand a week and left it empty when not met, why would he give it away?


Letting an arts collective/charity use an empty space can have all sorts of positive benefits for landlords sitting on a property.


----------



## Yelkcub (Feb 12, 2013)

editor said:


> Letting an arts collective/charity use an empty space can have all sorts of positive benefits for landlords sitting on a property.


 
The little I've read of him makes me believe he'll not agree....


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2013)

Yelkcub said:


> The little I've read of him makes me believe he'll not agree....


If it's good enough for Lexadon, I imagine it would be good enough for most money-grubbing landlords.


----------



## Yelkcub (Feb 12, 2013)

editor said:


> If it's good enough for Lexadon, I imagine it would be good enough for most money-grubbing landlords.


 
Perhaps.


----------



## Remus Harbank (Feb 12, 2013)

what that place really needs is a Sainsbury's Metro Express


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 12, 2013)

supercity said:


> There are some landlords who adopt an enlightened approach to their rents, taking the view that some money is better than no money, and that a successful, alternative business might eventually attract other businesses and push rents up. Mr Khan is not known to be one of those landlords. It's a shame as far as the cinema/tent shop goes, because it's a great building. While he owns it, I fear it's doomed, since the only biz that's ever made money on those premises, under his ownership, was a nightclub that drove local residents crazy. You'd need nightclub-like footfall but without the attendant local hassle just to pay the bills.


Councils (or HMRC or whoever) should be able to tax the fuck out of people for deliberately leaving places empty like that.


----------



## Winot (Feb 12, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Councils (or HMRC or whoever) should be able to tax the fuck out of people for deliberately leaving places empty like that.



Agreed - it's a market failure that it's economic in the long term to do so, and presumably contributes to high rents for places that are occupied.


----------



## Gramsci (Feb 12, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Councils (or HMRC or whoever) should be able to tax the fuck out of people for deliberately leaving places empty like that.


 
Councils still charge business rates after a place is left empty for more than 3 months if rateable value above £2600



> Unoccupied property rating
> In general, there will be no business rates to pay for the first three months after a property becomes empty, as long as it has been previously occupied for a minimum of six weeks and one day. After that, an empty property rate of 100% of the occupied charge will be payable. Industrial buildings, listed buildings and small properties with rateable values of less than £2600, pay no empty property rates even after the first three months have expired.


----------



## laluna (Feb 13, 2013)

> Quoted text






			
				Yelkcub said:
			
		

> Wassupp Brixxy Peeps! Where do I sign?


 
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe *BUMP* rollllll rolllllll rollllllll


----------



## Yelkcub (Feb 13, 2013)

laluna said:


> hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe *BUMP* rollllll rolllllll rollllllll


 
Strange bump as you'd liked that post previously....what you up to?


----------



## Kanda (Feb 13, 2013)

supercity said:


> since the only biz that's ever made money on those premises, under his ownership, was a nightclub that drove local residents crazy.


 
South Beach? That wasn't run by him. South Beach became the Nigerian restaurant under the same owner because he lost his licence to be a bar/club, same bloke though.


----------



## laluna (Feb 13, 2013)

> Quoted text






			
				Yelkcub said:
			
		

> Strange bump as you'd liked that post previously....what you up to?


 
haha I think you misunderstand, that's just me laffing my head off... meh


----------



## cuppa tee (Feb 13, 2013)

laluna said:


> hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe *BUMP* rollllll rolllllll rollllllll





laluna said:


> haha I think you misunderstand, that's just me laffing my head off... meh


 
did you mean rofl ?


----------



## laluna (Feb 13, 2013)

I did indeed cuppa tee - that's just my left-of-centre version of it I guess...verbosity being my forte


----------



## cuppa tee (Feb 13, 2013)

laluna said:


> I did indeed cuppa tee - that's just my left-of-centre version of it I guess...verbosity being my forte


 
I thought it might just be the predictive text on an Iphone or Ipad


----------



## laluna (Feb 13, 2013)

> Quoted text






			
				cuppa tee said:
			
		

> I thought it might just be the predictive text on an Iphone or Ipad




I should be so lucky


----------



## laluna (Feb 13, 2013)

right! we're off to see the inimitable Mr Khan this evening to discuss money matters - don't hold yer breath...


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Feb 14, 2013)

And ?


----------



## supercity (Feb 14, 2013)

Kanda said:


> South Beach? That wasn't run by him. South Beach became the Nigerian restaurant under the same owner because he lost his licence to be a bar/club, same bloke though.


I didn't say it was run by him, just that during the period of Mr Khan's ownership of the building, it's the only business that made a profit. Owner/landlord = Khan; tenant/business owner = South Beach/Nigerian restaurant.


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## TopCat (Feb 14, 2013)

laluna said:


> A community-led and socially-minded cafe (possibly locally sourced vegan/veggie fare?) and arts/discussion/meetup space.


 
I think _any_ rent and rates are going to be unaffordable for this sort of venture. Traditionally this sort of thing only worked when it was a squatted venue. Have you thought about squatting? Start off with the domed place on the hill and just keep shifting the fittings and people around Brixton as you get periodically evicted?


----------



## laluna (Feb 14, 2013)

Great idea  TopCat  any experience/advice for would-be squatters you'd be willing to share?  unfortunately squatters rights ain't what they used to be!

Well, our visit and walk round last night was a real eye-opener Kanda was right, the place is MaHOOOsive!

Not only is it far too big for our ambitions, it's also been substantially vandalised and gutted by the previous tenant - not a single fitting (including the toilets and taps) has been left and most of the stud walls were hammered through, you really have to wonder at humanity sometimes 

To his credit, Mr Khan, contrary to expectations, was quite amenable and seemed genuinely interested in our idea of a community hub, even after we admitted that the venue wasn't a manageable enough size for us to consider notwithstanding the rental, which we also made clear was well beyond our budget. I can see how even a restaurant chain like Nandos wouldn't consider taking the place on simply for the sheer cavernous size of it. We might have considered negotiating on an option to occupy either the upstairs or the downstairs but that building needs a whole lotta work though admittedly he does seem to be slowly making right the carnage. It would also impact greatly on what type of tenant took on the other half.

I'd love to see the dome windows opened up again and the beautiful original cinema floor restored to it's former glory but alas this is not the place for our hub methinks


----------



## Rushy (Feb 15, 2013)

Why not look at Brixton Space on Brixton Water Lane. About 15k pa and has a huge unused basement too.


----------



## B-Town (Feb 15, 2013)

So was it the Nigerian restaurant or Southbeach who destroyed it? The Nigerian place only seemed to be there for a couple of weeks...

I went in there when it was Southbeach, great space, but very aggresive atmosphere - busy though, so not sure why it closed...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 15, 2013)

B-Town said:


> So was it the Nigerian restaurant or Southbeach who destroyed it? The Nigerian place only seemed to be there for a couple of weeks...
> 
> I went in there when it was Southbeach, great space, but very aggresive atmosphere - busy though, so not sure why it closed...


 
Whoever it was, they obviously didn't know or appreciate the building's history


----------



## Kanda (Feb 15, 2013)

B-Town said:


> So was it the Nigerian restaurant or Southbeach who destroyed it? The Nigerian place only seemed to be there for a couple of weeks...
> 
> I went in there when it was Southbeach, great space, but very aggresive atmosphere - busy though, so not sure why it closed...


 
Southbeach and the Nigerian restaurant were the same person running it. Pretty sure he lost his licence so turned it into a restaurant. 

Quite a bit of the damage inside is due to damp etc... Part of the ceiling had fallen down by the entrance. Khan was actually telling the previous tenants cronies to remove EVERYTHING when we were there, including the african style wall coverings etc. He said he was getting everything out and then tidying the place up himself...


----------



## supercity (Feb 15, 2013)

If a small place would do, the estate agent office on Brixton Hill (ex Morgan Berry) has been empty for years. Would need a change of use though...


----------



## laluna (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks for the tips Rushy and supercity - will look into these though Brixton Space seems more lucrative as a learning/event space imagine the estate agents office would be a bit on the small side again


----------



## snowy_again (Feb 15, 2013)

The Railton Health Centre has also had its funding pulled and is sitting empty at the moment. That must be on the Community Asset Transfer list at some point?


----------



## leanderman (Feb 15, 2013)

supercity said:


> If a small place would do, the estate agent office on Brixton Hill (ex Morgan Berry) has been empty for years. Would need a change of use though...


 
And this is the thing isn't it?

Lots of little shopping parades all over the country that are, say, 25 per cent empty.

And too few homes.

Seems an obvious solution to me.


----------



## supercity (Feb 15, 2013)

The number of empty places above shops (and even the shops themselves) is a national disgrace, and shames London at a time of housing shortage. Any mayor of London or local authority who introduced measures to force owners to bring those places back into use - like a compulsory development/refurbishment order, backed up by sweet loan terms on the one hand and financial threats or even loss of leasehold/freehold on the other - would be doing everyone a favour. Looking at the open windows in that fantastic building above Iceland on Electric Ave just makes me angry.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Feb 15, 2013)

Who ran that Community Shop/Skills Swap place in the village back in the early days of the changing tide? Was it Transition Town? They have a building off Brixton Road, near the Crown and Anchor they might let you use.


----------



## cuppa tee (Feb 15, 2013)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Who ran that Community Shop/Skills Swap place in the village back in the early days of the changing tide? Was it Transition Town? They have a building off Brixton Road, near the Crown and Anchor they might let you use.


I know that building, It's on robsart st 
and I can recall a time when it was a public lav.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Feb 15, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> and I can recall a time when it was a public lav.


Ha, yes, it doesn't look much better now tbh.


----------



## cuppa tee (Feb 15, 2013)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Ha, yes, it doesn't look much better now tbh.


You obviously didn't go inside, or see the pile of used needles that was retrieved from it when it closed. This place in Kennington has been going a while but I've not been in it ......... Quite an ingenious use of space  ....https://www.facebook.com/pages/ArtsLav/108108549268041


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## George & Bill (Feb 17, 2013)

By 'community hub', do you mean a place that will hopefully be used by the whole community? If so, not sure it makes sense to focus on veggie/vegan food, since presumably most people in BH aren't veggie/vegan. And not sure you should focus on locally sourced ingredients, since I'd imagine most people decide what to eat according to what they like the taste of, and what will fill them up most cheaply, not where the ingredients come from.

I'm not arguing for abanding your own principles - by all means maximize the veggie/vegan options, and use as many local ingredients as you can - but don't make too much of a big deal of these things. Offer people a good-value meal of something they want to eat, in an environment that also offers space and opportunity for wider social interaction.  IMO.


----------



## fortyplus (Feb 18, 2013)

slowjoe said:


> By 'community hub', do you mean a place that will hopefully be used by the whole community? If so, not sure it makes sense to focus on veggie/vegan food, since presumably most people in BH aren't veggie/vegan. And not sure you should focus on locally sourced ingredients, since I'd imagine most people decide what to eat according to what they like the taste of, and what will fill them up most cheaply, not where the ingredients come from.
> 
> I'm not arguing for abanding your own principles - by all means maximize the veggie/vegan options, and use as many local ingredients as you can - but don't make too much of a big deal of these things. Offer people a good-value meal of something they want to eat, in an environment that also offers space and opportunity for wider social interaction. IMO.


pish.
I'm a meat eater and I have no time for the holier-than-thou attitude of some vegetarians, and all the ethical/economic/dietary arguments for absolute vegetarianism IMO are specious. Let's not go there. 
BUT.. vegan food is universally acceptable to the whole community. It's all kosher (except if leavened at passover), halal etc. We should anyway eat less, better, more expensive meat, replace horsemince with lentils.  If you serve meat you exclude many of those with religious dietary principles.  IMO all school meals should be vegan (and free), to make them inclusive.


----------



## George & Bill (Feb 18, 2013)

fortyplus said:


> pish.
> I'm a meat eater and I have no time for the holier-than-thou attitude of some vegetarians, and all the ethical/economic/dietary arguments for absolute vegetarianism IMO are specious. Let's not go there.
> BUT.. vegan food is universally acceptable to the whole community. It's all kosher (except if leavened at passover), halal etc. We should anyway eat less, better, more expensive meat, replace horsemince with lentils. If you serve meat you exclude many of those with religious dietary principles. IMO all school meals should be vegan (and free), to make them inclusive.


 
I agree with much of what you say in principle - I was a vegetarian for around fifteen years, am very pro-veggie, and fully agree about eating less meat if you're going to eat any at all. 

But while vegan food is technically acceptable to everyone (fruitarians and nut allergy-sufferers notwithstanding), it is not what most people choose to eat most of the time, and I think you would attract a far broader range of people if you let people eat what they choose. It's perfectly possible to have a menu with veggie, vegan, kosher, halal etc options - and indeed, one that encourages people to make low-meat choices (I know I'd eat way less meat if veggie options in most places weren't such a woeful afterthought).

I completely disagree that serving meat excludes those with religious dietary principles - I think the vast majority of people with such principles care only what they are eating themselves, and are happy for others to make their own choices.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 18, 2013)

This ^^^.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2013)

It's in a terrible state of repair these days. 







http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/06/...ma-on-brixton-hill-looks-in-a-terrible-state/

(*threads merged)


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2013)

In response to this article someone's badgered Antic to buy it up!
They said no, sadly. 

I fear that the lovely old cinema façade is not long for this world.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 21, 2013)

editor said:


> It's in a terrible state of repair these days.
> 
> 
> http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2013/06/...ma-on-brixton-hill-looks-in-a-terrible-state/
> ...


 
It looked worse inside last time I was there.


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## editor (Jun 21, 2013)

Kanda said:


> It looked worse inside last time I was there.


 
Have you ever got to look inside the first floor? Or has that effectively gone? (I'm trying to remember what it looked like when it was a tent shop).


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## Kanda (Jun 21, 2013)

editor said:


> Have you ever got to look inside the first floor? Or has that effectively gone? (I'm trying to remember what it looked like when it was a tent shop).


 
Yup, huge dancefloor at front with stage, glitterball, Pole for pole dancing, few booths at the rear all in a pretty shit state. Floor didn't feel particularly solid!


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## happyshopper (Jun 22, 2013)

Probably been mentioned before but the weird thing when it was a camping shop was the sloping floor - inherited from when it was a cinema.


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## Jangleballix (Jun 22, 2013)

Rubbish, including stud walls, being removed via white van this afternoon.


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## supercity (Aug 6, 2013)

Spotted last night: workmen doing what looked like a pretty full-on clear-out of the old camping shop/South Beach.

Didn't have time to stop and ask them anything.

Anyone any idea what's going on?


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## leanderman (Aug 6, 2013)

No doubt some bar/restaurant project, doomed because the rent is astronomical.


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## editor (Aug 6, 2013)

*threads merged


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## shakespearegirl (Aug 7, 2013)

I noticed a fair bit of activity in there over the weekend


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## sparkybird (Aug 7, 2013)

there was a fire there a while back  - and the owner needed to do some work before he could possibly let it again  - maybe it is jut this? Don't get your hopes up!


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## OvalhouseDB (Aug 8, 2013)

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/28735449?search_identifier=4ddec5ed21db86039cf54b648cb2cace


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2013)

OvalhouseDB said:


> http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/28735449?search_identifier=4ddec5ed21db86039cf54b648cb2cace


 
ONLY £80,000?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2013)

They need a typist



> James Wilson Estate Agent is delighted to present this fantastic opportunity to acquire a new lease for this commercial premises formally used as a Night Club, Bar and a Restaurant on Brixton Hill. We understand the premises previously had a licence to be used as a night club and with the right licensees there is a huge potential to make it a lucrative business. There is a good amount of passing trade and the premise is considered to be in a great location for the use of a night club / restaurant or a win bar. The premises is arranged over two floors and has WC's on both floors and bar area on both floors. All interested parties must make enquires with the local council.
> 
> Contact us to arrange an internal viewing


 
A win bar sounds interesting


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## OvalhouseDB (Aug 8, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> ONLY £80,000?


 
For the lease. No idea how long or what terms that would be.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2013)

OvalhouseDB said:


> For the lease. No idea how long or what terms that would be.


 
oh, missed that bit 

Was going to say, I'm positive he bought the property for a lot more than that!


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## lang rabbie (Aug 9, 2013)

happyshopper said:


> Probably been mentioned before but the weird thing when it was a camping shop was the sloping floor - inherited from when it was a cinema.


 
I'm trying to remember whether the "tent and tarpaulin" shop continued operating on a reduced scale just in the bit at the front in the former foyer. The former cinema auditorium was demolished to build the 'Hermes House' block of business units (latterly Job centre and some flats) twenty(?) years ago.


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## Kanda (Aug 9, 2013)

OvalhouseDB said:


> For the lease. No idea how long or what terms that would be.


 

He wanted a grand a week when we went to look at it... !!


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## timothysutton1 (Aug 13, 2013)

lang rabbie said:


> ...The former cinema auditorium was demolished to build the 'Hermes House' block of business units (latterly Job centre and some flats) twenty(?) years ago.


The back bit of the cinema, containing the screen and most of the seating, was lopped off years before Hermes House was built. The camping shop used the old foyer area and their store room at the back had a sloping floor from the remaining bit of the cinema auitorium.
The site where Hermes House now stands was derelict for a long time and used to contain garages, the land where the back of the cinema used to be, a tennis court and a small artificial limb factory.


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## leanderman (Aug 13, 2013)

I want that tennis court back


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## passivejoe (Aug 14, 2013)

There's a license application taped to the front of the building for "Whitesand Function room and Restaurant". They seem to want to be able to play (and record?) films, dance performances, live music etc. I forget the list but it actually looks quite interesting.


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## leanderman (Aug 14, 2013)

It had better be lucrative too with that rent


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## Chilavert (Aug 14, 2013)

There seemed to be some pretty extensive work being undertaken earlier; plenty of rubble and brick dust visible under the security shutter.


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## supercity (Aug 15, 2013)

timothysutton1 said:


> The back bit of the cinema, containing the screen and most of the seating, was lopped off years before Hermes House was built. The camping shop used the old foyer area and their store room at the back had a sloping floor from the remaining bit of the cinema auitorium.
> The site where Hermes House now stands was derelict for a long time and used to contain garages, the land where the back of the cinema used to be, a tennis court and a small artificial limb factory.


Interesting. The (now demolished and turned into flats) small building that backed on to Costcutter on St Saviours Road was also an artificial limb factory. Easy to forget that with the casualties of two world wars it must have been a booming industry.

Walked past South Beach last night and saw a Bulgarian-registered Alfa Romeo jammed in the doorway, parked inside.


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## leanderman (Aug 22, 2013)

supercity said:


> Interesting. The (now demolished and turned into flats) small building that backed on to Costcutter on St Saviours Road was also an artificial limb factory. Easy to forget that with the casualties of two world wars it must have been a booming industry.
> 
> Walked past South Beach last night and saw a Bulgarian-registered Alfa Romeo jammed in the doorway, parked inside.


 
Car is still there along with some workmen completely gutting the ground floor.

They are really starting over.


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## quimcunx (Aug 22, 2013)

FFS. Photos, people, photos!


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## leanderman (Aug 23, 2013)

quimcunx said:


> FFS. Photos, people, photos!



Double doh! Went in there today and got up on the roof. Crazy views down Brixton Hill. Can still see the Victorian plasterwork inside, but not for long.


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## quimcunx (Aug 23, 2013)




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## leanderman (Aug 23, 2013)

Going to be an Indian and a venue apparently. The owner seems to have tired of messing around and apparently wants to waste his own money on a hopeless venture in his own place.


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

Lease is being touted for £90,000.


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## TruXta (Oct 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Lease is being touted for £90,000.


So not gonna be an Indian and a venue then?


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

TruXta said:


> So not gonna be an Indian and a venue then?



Suggested use: Wine bar


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## TruXta (Oct 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Suggested use: Wine bar


But... one just opened.


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

TruXta said:


> But... one just opened.



Yep. Or two,  if I am allowed to mentioned Champagne + Fromage.


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## TruXta (Oct 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Yep. Or two,  if I am allowed to mentioned Champagne + Fromage.


Not open yet is it?


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Not open yet is it?



Thought it was today. Maybe Friday. Hard to keep up.


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## TruXta (Oct 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Thought it was today. Maybe Friday. Hard to keep up.


Write a review when you've been, there's a good lad.


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## DJWrongspeed (Oct 8, 2013)

Some news here

Planning application for bar&restaurant licence looks a bit less lively than the previous occupants.


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Write a review when you've been, there's a good lad.



I don't have the palate.


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## TruXta (Oct 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I don't have the palate.


It's about being there, no one cares if or what you eat and drink. It's about the _ambience and atmos_ ya?


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

TruXta said:


> It's about being there, no one cares if or what you eat and drink. It's about the _ambience and atmos_ ya?



Ok. It's a tough assignment but I'll do it.


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Some news here
> 
> Planning application for bar&restaurant licence looks a bit less lively than the previous occupants.



Who are the White Sand gang?


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## Chilavert (Oct 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Ok. It's a tough assignment but I'll do it.


Good luck, we're all counting on you.


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## TruXta (Oct 8, 2013)

Chilavert said:


> Good luck, we're all counting on you.


If we all chip in he might afford to partake of the glorious nectar too.


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## leanderman (Oct 8, 2013)

Chilavert said:


> Good luck, we're all counting on you.



Can I claim expenses?


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## leanderman (Oct 9, 2013)

TruXta said:


> So not gonna be an Indian and a venue then?



Maybe it will be. The licensing application is in the name of a Mr Khan, presumably of Khans, and owner of the building.


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## shakespearegirl (Oct 21, 2013)

Signs of life tonight as I was going past on the bus. The boards at ground level were off and windows in.


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## leanderman (Oct 21, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> Signs of life tonight as I was going past on the bus. The boards at ground level were off and windows in.



How long do you give it?


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## editor (Oct 21, 2013)

leanderman said:


> How long do you give it?


That was probably the closing party.


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## Balbi (Oct 21, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> Signs of life tonight as I was going past on the bus. The boards at ground level were off and windows in.



Was that you with loads of bags on the bus?


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## shakespearegirl (Oct 22, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Was that you with loads of bags on the bus?



I had about 3 shopping bags, one of them from Boots


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## shakespearegirl (Oct 22, 2013)

editor said:


> That was probably the closing party.



Well if he doesn't have to pay the outrageous rent given he already owns the place maybe he'll have a fighting chance to make it work


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## leanderman (Oct 22, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> Well if he doesn't have to pay the outrageous rent given he already owns the place maybe he'll have a fighting chance to make it work



He owns a number of properties on Tulse Hill parade and on Brixton Hill's 'The Pavement' plus swathes of Streatham and even of Tulse Hill itself.

He'll survive!


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## supercity (Oct 23, 2013)

Pleased to see that it's going to have windows at least. That black panelling virtually guaranteed no customers for any business operating in daylight hours.


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## han (Oct 24, 2013)

leanderman said:
			
		

> Maybe it will be. The licensing application is in the name of a Mr Khan, presumably of Khans, and owner of the building.



Ooh, I wonder what he's gonna do? 
Khan's did open another curry place in Camberwell but it closed after a couple of months.


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## leanderman (Dec 10, 2013)

han said:


> Ooh, I wonder what he's gonna do?
> Khan's did open another curry place in Camberwell but it closed after a couple of months.



Well, it doesn't exactly fill me with hope:


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## TruXta (Dec 10, 2013)

At least it's gotten a lick of paint.


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## billythefish (Mar 14, 2014)

It caught fire Wednesday night / Thursday morning... very badly damaged apparently. Sad.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 14, 2014)

billythefish said:


> It caught fire Wednesday night / Thursday morning... very badly damaged apparently. Sad.



Really?  Is it wrong of me to be suspicious?


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## billythefish (Mar 14, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Really?  Is it wrong of me to be suspicious?


No! That was my first thought too...


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## boohoo (Mar 14, 2014)

Sad news about the fire but hardly a surprise.


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## DietCokeGirl (Mar 14, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Really?  Is it wrong of me to be suspicious?


My first thoughts exactly!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 14, 2014)

> No! That was my first thought too...





DietCokeGirl said:


> My first thoughts exactly!



We have suspicious minds!


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## sparkybird (Mar 14, 2014)

That's the second fire in not too long. Didn't the licence not get approved??


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## leanderman (Mar 15, 2014)

Licence was rejected. Council has doubts the place would be properly managed. 

Very doubt Khan would torch it. Spent lots doing it up.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 15, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Licence was rejected. Council has doubts the place would be properly managed.
> 
> Very doubt Khan would torch it. Spent lots doing it up.



Maybe he decided he couldn't afford to pay the rent to himself


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## lang rabbie (Mar 18, 2014)

billythefish said:


> It caught fire Wednesday night / Thursday morning... very badly damaged apparently. Sad.


"Caught fire"! 

Brixton Hill is nae Glasgae, ye ken.


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## leanderman (Mar 18, 2014)

Jawa Khan and Khurram Zia have now submitted a renewed licensing application for a 'Hilltop Function Hall'


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## editor (Mar 18, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Jawa Khan and Khurram Zia have now submitted a renewed licensing application for a 'Hilltop Function Hall'


Sounds like they're trying to catch a bit of the retro Effra Social action with a name as daft as that.


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## supercity (Apr 3, 2014)

Looks like Mr Khan's given up on it. It's up for sale. POA, it says here: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-43262020.html


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## Rushy (Apr 3, 2014)

supercity said:


> Looks like Mr Khan's given up on it. It's up for sale. POA, it says here: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-43262020.html


He keeps putting it up for sale. IIRC it was over £1,000,000 5 or so years ago.


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## supercity (Apr 3, 2014)

I heard he bought it for £250,000. Must have been about 1998-99, when the tent shop shut.


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## el-ahrairah (Apr 3, 2014)

insurance on that must have made it a very lucky fire.


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## leanderman (Apr 3, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> insurance on that must have made it a very lucky fire.



It's a tricky strip. Good luck to whoever takes it over.


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## passivejoe (Apr 4, 2014)

What the strip really needs, IMO, is a decent cafe / bakery. The tent shop is a tough space to get right though... its deep and dark. Really, it should be a small cinema. 

Oh.


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## Winot (Apr 4, 2014)

passivejoe said:


> What the strip really needs, IMO, is a decent cafe / bakery. The tent shop is a tough space to get right though... its deep and dark. Really, it should be a small cinema.
> 
> Oh.



Cineworld can take it over when The Ritzy becomes a Little Waitrose.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2014)

It's had a shiny white paint job.


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## leanderman (Apr 6, 2014)

Apparently it's off the market again. And he wants to run it as venue ... again


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