# TEFL to children



## JHE (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm looking for some advice on this.

I have an interview coming up for a nice little job in a place I would be very happy to live. There is one catch, though. It would involve teaching some children and the children could be as young as five. I am confident and comfortable teaching English to adults. I love it. I'm OK with teenagers. They are not my favourite people, but Spanish ones are not usually very difficult to deal with, IME. Children are different, though. I have virtually no experience teaching children and simply don't know (i) how to teach them or (ii) whether I can learn to teach them. Maybe I just haven't got what it takes.

At the moment my plan is to be fairly (but not entirely) honest at interview. I won't pretend to have any more experience with children than I have, but will say I am very keen to gain experience teaching children and confident that I can do it.

All I can think of: lots of games, including ones that involve getting up and moving around; some singing; when planning, take into account v short attention spans; try to appear to enjoy teaching them and also put on an act of being 'strict'. What other crucial things do I need to know to have a go at teaching kids?

Do you think that the skills involved in controlling and teaching children are ones that can be learned easily in middle age or have I left it a bit too late?


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## Miss Caphat (Mar 22, 2012)

hmm. I don't know. I recently started teaching children (art) and it sounds like a similar situation. I have classes with kids ranging from 5 to 11. Even though I do have extensive child care experience, it is nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be. I was really nervous about it too, because I couldn't imagine getting a bunch of kids to sit down and listen to me and do the exercises.
But lo and behold, for the most part they do it! They come in, take their seats, listen to my little lecture, and then do the exercises/projects. I do have to help them a lot, and they do get a bit loud & silly at times, so it takes a lot of patience and you can't get too stressed about the outcome, but other than that it just works somehow.
I think you'll be fine. Will they provide training specific to teaching the kids?


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## miss direct (Mar 22, 2012)

I'll be interested in responses to this too, because I have an interview for a job teaching very young children (I currently teach TEFL at a university)...I have a little bit of experience with kids...lots of games...routines...arts and crafts, errrr


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## tombowler (Mar 22, 2012)

if it is a full time position in a pre-school it is hard work but great fun, we used the total immersion method everything was in English we basically did pre-school stuff finger painting, crafts, trips to the zoo, circle time songs  (nursery rhymes) ate lunch with them talking about the food, kids at a young age learn this way at home so it is natural, I ran a cooking class there once a week really worked well, currently planning easter English cooking classes for one preschool and a first school.
The school should have a curriculum to follow I use seasons holidays etc on mine you need loads of energy and enthusiasum and to talk to them all the time (opposite of most efl stuff with the talking)


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## Dandred (Mar 23, 2012)

I've just moved the other way from teaching 7-15 to adults and I love the change....

Have a read of a books call "Young Learners" by Saran Phillips and "Children Learning English" by Jayne Moon, both invaluable.

As for activities try not to spend more then 20 mins on any activity for the 5-7 years olds, they will get bored really quickly, you have to really plan any activities you are going to do. Make them as engaging as possible.

All the communicative activities you are used to doing with adults are gone......... sorry to say. 

Good luck and avid the piss and vomit!


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## extra dry (Mar 24, 2012)

Try 'ESL for children', 'classroom activities' on goggle. There are many factors that affect the students participation, time of day, lenght of time since last meal, the temperture of the room etc. Routine is what most children like and to have a teacher who instills routine really helps the overall performance of the class. I have students at 15 years old who can't line up to leave the classroom, have no idea how to look after their own books etc. Mind you Thai teaching environment is slighty different from other countries in my experence.


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## dessiato (Mar 24, 2012)

Although I've spent some years teaching young adults/adults this is my first year teaching kids. I love it and hate it about equally. When they come up in the morning, tell you how happy they are to see you; when they suddenly tell you something and you realise they have actually learned something, it is hard not to love the job.

Then they bring you chicken-pox, half-eaten sweets, chocolates etc in hands recently removed from noses, drip snot on your hand, then it is hard to enjoy teaching them.

Yesterday was their graduation, I spent a lot of time behind the scenes at the theatre. When they ran off stage, hugged me and were so excited it brought tears to my eyes, I was so proud of them. They worked their little socks off to make the day. They were so excited. Yesterday I loved it, tomorrow...who knows.

So after this long ramble, the only advice I'd give you is take tissues, lots of tissues.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 24, 2012)

Good advice, I always have tissues which was a habit ingrained when working with primary school kids. As for the teaching...songs, lots of them. Counting songs, repetitive songs. Also teach things in blocks, eg animals, pets; weather and seasons; family friends; food; colours. If they're not getting it, break things down into smaller chunks.


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## miss direct (Mar 24, 2012)

When is your interview?
I had mine today...they want me to do a demon lesson. 

This is another good book: Very Young Learners (Reilly)...I downloaded it.


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## dessiato (Mar 25, 2012)

miss direct said:


> When is your interview?
> I had mine today...they want me to do a *demon* lesson.
> 
> This is another good book: Very Young Learners (Reilly)...I downloaded it.


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## elfman (Mar 25, 2012)

I teach kids as young as 2 and a half who can't even speak their 'native' language yet. The younger they are the more you have to break things up. If you start to lose their attention, I always find banging on a short related video (usually a short song with animation) gets their attention straight away (if you have the technology). Don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself to make them laugh. Always plan your lessons properly and you should be fine.

5 year olds are a piece of piss tbh as long as you aren't teaching huge class sizes. For that age I would teach 3-4 words then follow it up by putting them into a common sentence and then practice writing 2-3 of those words (usually ones that start with the same letter so you can go over the name and sound of the letter too). This would be 2 x 30 mins lessons (1 unit). After about 6 units I do about 3 lessons revising those 6 units. Fill it up with singing the odd song, role play, various games, videos, stories, drawing/colouring etc. If you have a good textbook to follow then that helps you a lot to keep your focus as well as give you ideas, but obviously for such a young age the kids won't be interested in looking at it too much (although my school forces me to use it more than I'd like). If you have the opportunity to see the kids outside of lessons, then try test their knowledge on things you've been learning recently.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 25, 2012)

I've taught kids as young as 4, and I must say I didn't like it much. I was substituting though, so I hadn't a clue what I was doing. In the end I preferred older kids because I knew how to manage them... But that was just experience - I found them just as difficult the first year I did it. 

A few things I would note: immersion is great, but naughty kids will pretend not to understand you if they don't feel like it, if your Spanish isn't much good, at least learn some imperatives to make them sit down, be quiet, stop doing that etc.

Lots of short activities.

Lots of drawing.

Lots of singing, dancing and interaction.

If in doubt, colouring.

Also if you're not used to them little kids are very capricious, their mood turns on the most illogical things, so be wary.


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## goldenecitrone (Mar 25, 2012)

One tip for teaching young Spanish kids. Even if you don't understand the rude words they are saying about you, just write them down phonetically and get a colleague to translate them in front of the class. But don't forget, they are just little kids and are prone to bursting into tears when confronted with their wrongdoing.


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## Miss Caphat (Mar 26, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> I've taught kids as young as 4, and I must say I didn't like it much. I was substituting though, so I hadn't a clue what I was doing. In the end I preferred older kids because I knew how to manage them... But that was just experience - I found them just as difficult the first year I did it.
> 
> A few things I would note: immersion is great, but naughty kids will pretend not to understand you if they don't feel like it, if your Spanish isn't much good, at least learn some imperatives to make them sit down, be quiet, stop doing that etc.
> 
> ...


 


 substitute teacher, eh?   You must be very brave!
 It's funny how kids treat people so differently based  on nuances. I was a nanny for many different families, and generally the first week or so at a new job was complete hell b/c of the kids "testing" me and basically not having much respect for babysitters. UNLESS their parents had introduced me as "Our _friend_ who is 'a real artist' and is going to be spending time with you and doing really fun projects". In this case, they acted like little angels. 
I wonder if this would work with substitute teachers too. "Kids, we're going to have a very special guest tomorrow who is the best _____ (cook, football player, guitarist, etc...) in town. Be on your best behavior and maybe he/she will have time to teach you a thing or two about ____"


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## Firky (Mar 26, 2012)

Sorry for the massive C&P but the website wasn't working when I tried to find it, so here is a copy I saved. I am not sure how relevant it is to you but it makes for good reading. It is by a famous sci-fi author Richard Morgan:



> _This is a rant I developed over the years but never found anywhere to publish. The last section appeared, in an altered form, in the _EL Gazette_ - the month I left the profession. Appears here, partly as a professional swan song, partly as a warning to anyone who thinks they might like a career in ELT, but mostly for reasons of nostalgia. Sorry._
> A very wise teacher trainer once told me, rather bluntly I thought at the time, as I finished my four week RSA CTEFLA training course; Don’t go thinking you’re a teacher, because you’re not. Not yet. Do this for a couple of years and then you can start to think of yourself as a teacher. In recent years, I’ve become convinced that this should be inscribed in italics across every TEFL and TESOL certificate issued. The fact that currently it isn’t causes immense quantities of grief for all concerned, whether they be students, Directors of Studies or the “teachers” themselves. For an industry that claims to have at its core the communicative approach, there is a distinct lack of communication going on where it’s most needed.
> 
> It begins with the woefully inadequate training courses, covers the attitude of seventy percent of employers in the sector and isn’t helped by most of the published material the industry puts out. This is not necessarily to apportion blame; there are perfectly good reasons why the initial training courses are woefully inadequate (massive demand for teachers, limited time to train them), but woeful they remain. The employers perhaps should shoulder more guilt but in the end all most of them are trying to do is stay in business (business, that entity that seems geometrically opposed to the basic concepts of what ELT is about, but in the end is the driving force behind it). The coursebooks and supplementary materials put out by the industry are in many cases excellent in content, but what most of them still do is assume a depth of professional commitment and understanding that the vast majority of EFL teachers just do not possess yet, and maybe never will. The simple fact that the bulk of those working in the field are relatively new recruits and very often don’t know what they are doing is tacitly ignored.
> ...




Cont..


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## Firky (Mar 26, 2012)

> Eloise, a successful UCLES Diploma graduate with five years of experience, a keen interest in the theories of language learning and a serious attitude to her work replaced Mick, a far less experienced and less dedicated teacher who had been teaching some alarmingly shaky lessons to his post First Certificate class. After a week, the class mutinied and the change had to be reversed. Reason – they didn’t like her (or better put – they liked Mick).
> Val, a serious and dedicated teacher with many years experience in the Far East, returned to the UK and invested most of her savings in the UCLES Diploma, held a number of mediocre posts around London for about eighteen months and finally, unwillingly, left the country again for another post abroad. Others in a similar position left the profession instead.
> Dave, a forty two year old of many years teaching experience, has failed the UCLES Diploma three times at the last count and is locked into an eternity of low paid, low grade teaching posts around Madrid. He is very bitter and, as a result, pretty much burnt out.
> 
> ...


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## Idris2002 (Mar 26, 2012)

I thought you were banned. . .


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## danny la rouge (Mar 26, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> I thought you were banned. . .


First one to claim it's Firky...


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## Miss Caphat (Mar 26, 2012)




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## N_igma (Mar 26, 2012)

I'd just turn it into Teaching English as a Main Language.


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## extra dry (Mar 31, 2012)

Firky the article has some spot on descriptions however there are a lot of success stories about being a teacher.....the most important aspect after a while is how comfortable do you feel in front of a class, if you can handle that day in day out then there is a real positive experience.  I guess.


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## dessiato (Mar 31, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> I thought you were banned. . .


Is this going to become an "I'm Spartacus" moment?


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## elfman (Mar 31, 2012)

Just to add my own experiences in relation to the article posted (sorry for derailing)

The ESL industry is very shaky indeed. The demand has risen so much in recent years that nobody has been able to keep up with it properly. The training that most teachers get is absolutely not enough. Private companies have tried to make the most of this by offering TEFL courses very cheap over a short period of time and are making a bomb out of it. There really needs to be more courses offered through colleges and universities to give adequate and flexible training to potential teachers and although it is getting slightly better in the UK, it's still a long way off of being adequate. I stress that they need to be flexible too because so many people taking the step to be an ESL teacher is because of how easy it is to get a 'qualification' then teach in another country.

I'm really under qualified for my job and I think I'm pretty sure that I'm getting paid more than any other teacher in the my school (and the school is paying my company a fair amount more money on top of the wage I get. I dread to think how much this is). This might seem unfair but I know for a fact that some of the parents only sent their kids to this school because of me being here (well a native English speaker teaching English). (just to put this into context I estimate the teacher's salaries here to range from around 1500RMB (£150) a month for the younger inexperienced teachers to about 3000RMB for those who take on a bit of extra responsibility (paperwork and shit). I get 6800RMB and I reckon the company will double my salary in what they charge the school. (all of those wages are accompanied by free housing and 3 free meals a day while working).

I have been lucky in many respects and very unlucky in others. I started at a brand new school, where the class sizes were small to start off with, so it made it easier to develop my teaching skills as the classes have got bigger and my work schedule has increased. But I get inadequate teaching material to follow as the textbooks I've been made to use are just so bad for the age I'm teaching (not that the younger ones should even be using textbooks at all tbh). I have no syllabus or curriculum as such to follow, except what's in the textbook. We just got some new textbooks for this semester (about 7 weeks late!) and the teachers book is all in Chinese and there is a lot of stuff I don't understand about the teaching materials. Any complaints about this is met with total dismissal by the principal of my school and total cowardice by my company who don't want to piss off the principal so they can keep overcharging the school for the 'service' they provide. A service which more or less amounts to me teaching plus the company checking on the me and school once a month (when they can get their money) and maybe an email every week (or when the school or I complain about one another).

Any new (under-qualified) ESL teacher should really start off with a company where they get their arse wiped for them when it comes to teaching lesson. There needs to be some regulation for this to happen. I've just had an interview for an English teaching chain who seem to provide absolutely everything for the teacher, so they have very little to prepare or fuck up in the lesson. I sort of wished this is the sort of job I could of started off with but for whatever reasons this never happened.

All in all though, there are many more positives in my personal experience from doing this job. My life has been enriched with experience that I would never of got if I stayed in my previous job staring at a computer screen in a tiny office 9-5, mon - fri. This is before I even go into anything outside my actual job. All the kids I teach are wonderful and any trouble I have outside the actual lessons are totally forgotten about once I start teaching them. Seeing them smile and laugh and enjoy my lessons is awesome, then when you actually see them learning and remembering what you've taught them makes everything worth while. Some lessons can be frustrating but I think it's usually down to my own inadequacies that this happens.

I have the potential to be a good teacher but I'm not quite there yet and as long as I'm stuck in an environment without the necessary support, I won't be a good teacher.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

I finally heard the result of the interview this morning.  I haven't got the job.  Frankly, I am more relieved than disappointed.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

Miss Caphat said:


> hmm. I don't know. I recently started teaching children (art) and it sounds like a similar situation. I have classes with kids ranging from 5 to 11. Even though I do have extensive child care experience, it is nowhere near as hard as I thought it would be. I was really nervous about it too, because I couldn't imagine getting a bunch of kids to sit down and listen to me and do the exercises.
> But lo and behold, for the most part they do it! They come in, take their seats, listen to my little lecture, and then do the exercises/projects. I do have to help them a lot, and they do get a bit loud & silly at times, so it takes a lot of patience and you can't get too stressed about the outcome, but other than that it just works somehow.
> I think you'll be fine. Will they provide training specific to teaching the kids?


 
People who know me seem to think I'd be fine and that I would be able to control the children. My gut feeling tells me I wouldn't be. My head tells me I could probably learn, but I'm not sure.

There would have been some support available if I had got the job. In all respects expect experience teaching children I was the sort of candidate they wanted. I think they have found someone who ticks all the boxes and they are quite right to see experience with children and confidence as important.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

tombowler said:


> if it is a full time position in a pre-school it is hard work but great fun, we used the total immersion method everything was in English we basically did pre-school stuff finger painting, crafts, trips to the zoo, circle time songs (nursery rhymes) ate lunch with them talking about the food, kids at a young age learn this way at home so it is natural, I ran a cooking class there once a week really worked well, currently planning easter English cooking classes for one preschool and a first school.
> The school should have a curriculum to follow I use seasons holidays etc on mine you need loads of energy and enthusiasum and to talk to them all the time (opposite of most efl stuff with the talking)


 
That's sounds great.  I hope you enjoy it.

Your comment about TTT is something I would find it difficult to get my head around, though


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

Dandred said:


> I've just moved the other way from teaching 7-15 to adults and I love the change....
> 
> Have a read of a books call "Young Learners" by Saran Phillips and "Children Learning English" by Jayne Moon, both invaluable.
> 
> ...


 
I will look up the books you mention.  Thanks.

Piss and vomit is more than a little off-putting!


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

extra dry said:


> Try 'ESL for children', 'classroom activities' on goggle. There are many factors that affect the students participation, time of day, lenght of time since last meal, the temperture of the room etc. Routine is what most children like and to have a teacher who instills routine really helps the overall performance of the class. I have students at 15 years old who can't line up to leave the classroom, have no idea how to look after their own books etc. Mind you Thai teaching environment is slighty different from other countries in my experence.


 
Interesting point about routine - and I bet you are right.

A set-up where 15-year-olds are expected to line up to leave the classroom is rather different from anything I'm used to!


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## dessiato (Mar 31, 2012)

Sorry you didn't get the job. At the worst though it is good practise for the next time. There's a lot of jobs out there at the moment, so finding the one you do want shouldn't be too hard. Good luck with it.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

dessiato said:


> Although I've spent some years teaching young adults/adults this is my first year teaching kids. I love it and hate it about equally. When they come up in the morning, tell you how happy they are to see you; when they suddenly tell you something and you realise they have actually learned something, it is hard not to love the job.
> 
> Then they bring you chicken-pox, half-eaten sweets, chocolates etc in hands recently removed from noses, drip snot on your hand, then it is hard to enjoy teaching them.
> 
> ...


 
You make it sound like something I would love to try - except for the need for tissues.  Given the option, though, I'd opt for adults every time.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

dessiato said:


> Sorry you didn't get the job. At the worst though it is good practise for the next time. There's a lot of jobs out there at the moment, so finding the one you do want shouldn't be too hard. Good luck with it.


 
Thanks!

The interview went well really and reading slightly between the lines of the emails since the interview I think I was down to the final two!

I think many of the jobs at the moment are in the far east and I'm not much tempted.  I am going to start applying to some places I wouldn't have thought of before, though.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Good advice, I always have tissues which was a habit ingrained when working with primary school kids. As for the teaching...songs, lots of them. Counting songs, repetitive songs. Also teach things in blocks, eg animals, pets; weather and seasons; family friends; food; colours. If they're not getting it, break things down into smaller chunks.


 
Yup, that sounds good and one of the big differences from what I'm used to is that there would be no reading and writing involved.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

miss direct said:


> When is your interview?
> I had mine today...they want me to do a demon lesson.
> 
> This is another good book: Very Young Learners (Reilly)...I downloaded it.


 
Thanks, I'll look that up.

I hope your lesson was devilishly good!


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 31, 2012)

I mentioned this thread to my husband, who is a linguist. He can still remember the lyrics of songs in Spanish, German & French when he first started learning languages as a child. This is particularly impressive as he's a musician with a terrible reputation for never remembering lyrics.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

elfman said:


> I teach kids as young as 2 and a half who can't even speak their 'native' language yet. The younger they are the more you have to break things up. If you start to lose their attention, I always find banging on a short related video (usually a short song with animation) gets their attention straight away (if you have the technology). Don't be afraid to make a fool of yourself to make them laugh. Always plan your lessons properly and you should be fine.


 
Two and a half! You teach babies!

The video idea sounds good. The point about planning is sound, I'm sure. (It's also true for teenagers and adults. Students, especially adult ones, I think, notice when the teacher hasn't prepared properly.)



> 5 year olds are a piece of piss tbh as long as you aren't teaching huge class sizes. For that age I would teach 3-4 words then follow it up by putting them into a common sentence and then practice writing 2-3 of those words (usually ones that start with the same letter so you can go over the name and sound of the letter too). This would be 2 x 30 mins lessons (1 unit). After about 6 units I do about 3 lessons revising those 6 units. Fill it up with singing the odd song, role play, various games, videos, stories, drawing/colouring etc. If you have a good textbook to follow then that helps you a lot to keep your focus as well as give you ideas, but obviously for such a young age the kids won't be interested in looking at it too much (although my school forces me to use it more than I'd like). If you have the opportunity to see the kids outside of lessons, then try test their knowledge on things you've been learning recently.


 
That doesn't sound too bad, really. I'm a little surprised that the five-year-olds are writing already.

Role-plays with 5-year-olds? That sounds great. I really like using role-plays with willing adults.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 31, 2012)

Thing is, I think the kind of criticisms outlined above are based on a misunderstanding of what TEFL is as an industry. Look at the complaints up there and you'll see they're all about teaching standards and professionalism. But for me that's totally unrealistic when you understand that TEFL is a very lucrative, highly competitive industry, with a massive turnover of staff.

Quite simply most TEFL schools aren't in it because they have a deeply ingrained desire to help the world to speak English. They're in to make money. Making money means exploiting your teachers and exploiting your students. The place I work pays me £12.50 an hour, whilst I teach 18 students who are forking out between £7-10 an hour for my classes. My qualifications consist of being well-literate, speaking "relatively standard" English and having done a training course of one month. On top of that I have a good amount of experience, I genuinely like teaching people and I have a basic professional pride in what I do. But let's not pretend the latter three things are particularly important for my employer. What's important to them (and why wouldn't it be, they're a business), is that I'm cheap, flexible and easily replaceable. If standards in the industry were higher that wouldn't be the case. If TEFL required longer training periods, more supervision and re-training, then they'd have to pay people more. Even as it is, TEFL is considerably more hassle than the paycheck merits. 

The model works because most students have no idea of what they should be expecting from a teacher, and what they would have to pay to get it. There's almost no other important vocational skill you could learn for £7 an hour. Learning to drive is how much these days?

It makes me laugh when politicians imagine that in the future we'll all be highly-educated, flexibilised workers, delivering complex skills to an international audience and that will save the economies of the developed world. Because that's what TEFL is. Flexibilised, "highly-educated" workers, teaching people from all over the world a highly complex skill which the UK is in a great competitive position to deliver. And low and behold the pay and conditions are shit, the workers are utterly disposable and employers are raking it in. 

TEFL teachers put up with this basically because most people aren't in it for that long, and the people who are can progress relatively rapidly to the core workforce because turnover is so high. But it's got sod all to do with professional standards, because the only standard really is profit.


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## JHE (Mar 31, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> I've taught kids as young as 4, and I must say I didn't like it much. I was substituting though, so I hadn't a clue what I was doing. In the end I preferred older kids because I knew how to manage them... But that was just experience - I found them just as difficult the first year I did it.
> 
> A few things I would note: immersion is great, but naughty kids will pretend not to understand you if they don't feel like it, if your Spanish isn't much good, at least learn some imperatives to make them sit down, be quiet, stop doing that etc.


 
My Spanish is good, thanks.



> Lots of short activities.
> 
> Lots of drawing.
> 
> ...


 
I'm sure you're right about moods.

Dancing?  That would be something for me to learn about!  The colouring thing, I don't really get.  Is it just to pass the time or does it have some educational purpose.  I can see that it would be good for learning the names of colours.  Maybe it would help more generally to get the children to associate pictures with words... I don't know...


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 31, 2012)

I'll give you some examples.

Several colleagues of mine went straight from CELTA to teaching nursery school kids. That is, they did a course entitled Certificate of English Language Teaching to ADULTS (only 1 month) and went directly into paid work, with small children, unsupervised. No training (or maybe a day internally), no experience with kids, no language skills to control or look after these kids (who after all, don't speak more than a few words of english), no idea what they were doing.

Now there should be regulation to stop that. There should be someone saying, it's ridiculous to have a unqualified, unvetted adult who doesn't even speak the kids native language, even supervising these children, let alone pretending to educate them.

But what was the academy supposed to do? If there's no regulation or restriction on entry to that kind of work, then the going rate for the teachers is going to be whatever those fresh faced off the CELTA can get.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 31, 2012)

JHE said:


> My Spanish is good, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah exactly that, the associate the pictures with words, you can ask them what colour the giraffe is, you can tell them "colour the giraffe yellow" etc.


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## Red Storm (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm thinking about doing the TEFL thing for next year. I was going to do a CELTA course in Manchester. 

I've been worried that getting a job will be hard. Seems like people on this thread don't recommend it that much? Are jobs abroad hard to find with it?


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 31, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I'm thinking about doing the TEFL thing for next year. I was going to do a CELTA course in Manchester.
> 
> I've been worried that getting a job will be hard. Seems like people on this thread don't recommend it that much? Are jobs abroad hard to find with it?


Getting a job is easy. Lots of demand, loads of schools. But pay will be mediocre and conditions insecure.


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## Red Storm (Mar 31, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> Getting a job is easy. Lots of demand, loads of schools. But pay will be mediocre and conditions insecure.


 
I'm not looking for a long term thing. I looking at a year. Hopefully in S. Korea, China or Japan.  

As long as I earn more than £9k per year (which is what i get now) I'll be happy.


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## purves grundy (Mar 31, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> I'll give you some examples.
> 
> Several colleagues of mine went straight from CELTA to teaching nursery school kids. That is, they did a course entitled Certificate of English Language Teaching to ADULTS (only 1 month) and went directly into paid work, with small children, unsupervised. No training (or maybe a day internally), no experience with kids, no language skills to control or look after these kids (who after all, don't speak more than a few words of english), no idea what they were doing.
> 
> ...


It's such a fucking good business - gthere's no way you can keep ticking over as a private language school and not go aggressively for the kids market. They stay with you longer, in Asia it's pretty much the educational culture to do extra classes outside school so the dosh is always around. But they know the difference between a good lesson and a bad lesson, they generally complain less than adults, can't articulate it propoer-like.

My advice, cos I've done it plenty times: go in planned as much as poss; do loads of project work; have a laugh - give them a bit of 'informed lightness' in what was probably a twat of a day for them...


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 31, 2012)

purves grundy said:


> It's such a fucking good business - gthere's no way you can keep ticking over as a private language school and not go aggressively for the kids market. They stay with you longer, in Asia it's pretty much the educational culture to do extra classes outside school so the dosh is always around. But they know the difference between a good lesson and a bad lesson, they generally complain less than adults, can't articulate it propoer-like.


Oh definitely, it's a fantastic business, but... it's only a fantastic business because you're paying native speakers a pittance, and most schools have to pay either lower level english speakers at better wage rates (because they're a fully qualified teachers, even if their language skills are lower) or a massive premium for the small number of fully-qualified native-speaker or equivalent teachers committed enough to be in education permanently.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 31, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I'm not looking for a long term thing. I looking at a year. Hopefully in S. Korea, China or Japan.
> 
> As long as I earn more than £9k per year (which is what i get now) I'll be happy.


supposedly you make good money in those places, although I've heard the work is pretty insecure in Japan especially.


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## elfman (Apr 1, 2012)

JHE said:


> Two and a half! You teach babies!
> 
> The video idea sounds good. The point about planning is sound, I'm sure. (It's also true for teenagers and adults. Students, especially adult ones, I think, notice when the teacher hasn't prepared properly.)
> 
> ...


 Just make sure you do lots of revision though!! And it will be a case of trial and error with what you do I think. I'm also teaching in China, so the kids here seem a bit more mature than what they would be compared to say the UK.


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## elfman (Apr 1, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I'm not looking for a long term thing. I looking at a year. Hopefully in S. Korea, China or Japan.
> 
> As long as I earn more than £9k per year (which is what i get now) I'll be happy.


 
9k in China is different to 9k in Japan or S. Korea.

For a 1st job in Guangdong, China (where I am), you should be getting at least £6.5k for 10 months work plus free housing, air fare and possibly 3 free meals on the days you work. And from that you can actually save up money. If you go inland in China, you will earn less but things are even cheaper.


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## elfman (Apr 1, 2012)

Here are some links for videos aimed at kids for those who may need them.

HookedOnPhonicsTV's Channel - YouTube
MapleLeafHashima's Channel - YouTube
KidsTV123's Channel - YouTube
SuperSimpleSongs - YouTube
BritishCouncilLEKids - YouTube

Just generally searching youtube for whatever subject you're teaching can help but there are always gaps.

I suggest getting youtube downloading software too


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## Red Storm (Apr 1, 2012)

elfman said:


> 9k in China is different to 9k in Japan or S. Korea.
> 
> For a 1st job in Guangdong, China (where I am), you should be getting at least £6.5k for 10 months work plus free housing, air fare and possibly 3 free meals on the days you work. And from that you can actually save up money. If you go inland in China, you will earn less but things are even cheaper.


 
Is there any good resource on living costs in different cities for TEFL people?


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## JHE (Apr 1, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Is there any good resource on living costs in different cities for TEFL people?


 
There is a tool that purports to provide that info on many many cities on the TEFL.com site.  You may need to register to use it, but if you are looking for EFL work it's not a bad idea to register anyway.

The tool is here:  http://www.tefl.com/home/col_survey.html

I would not vouch for the information being accurate or up to date, but I guess it gives a reasonable idea in many cases.


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## FabricLiveBaby! (Apr 1, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> It makes me laugh when politicians imagine that in the future we'll all be highly-educated, flexibilised workers, delivering complex skills to an international audience and that will save the economies of the developed world. Because that's what TEFL is. Flexibilised, "highly-educated" workers, teaching people from all over the world a highly complex skill which the UK is in a great competitive position to deliver. And low and behold the pay and conditions are shit, the workers are utterly disposable and employers are raking it in.
> 
> TEFL teachers put up with this basically because most people aren't in it for that long, and the people who are can progress relatively rapidly to the core workforce because turnover is so high. But it's got sod all to do with professional standards, because the only standard really is profit.


 
This is exactly it. Wages in TEFL are plummeting. I'd categorise myself in the same place as you (CELTA, 2 years full time experience.. etc). There are many, many backpackers that teach English for beer money. Most of the schools couldn't give a monkeys about qualifications or experience, let alone providing you with any professional development.  Are you cheap?  Then you're employed.

Knowing any kind of basic grammar or learning practice doesn't even come into it.

I think the whole sector needs an overhaul tbh. Wishful thinking I know.

In the meantime, I still don't know my arse from my elbow when it comes to teaching teenagers (or children - not that I've tried teaching kids yet), and the schools really don't give a shit.


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## Red Storm (Dec 3, 2012)

I ended up doing a CELTA in July. 

I'm off to South Korea tomorrow, working in Ulsan. I get paid £1300 a month and they pay the rent.


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## Dandred (Dec 3, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I ended up doing a CELTA in July.
> 
> I'm off to South Korea tomorrow, working in Ulsan. I get paid £1300 a month and they pay the rent.


 
Welcome to Korea


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## Dandred (Dec 3, 2012)

OP, I recommend  this book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Children-Learning-English-Jayne-Moon/dp/1405080027

I wouldn't say it was essential but if you want to improve your ability to teach kids its a must.


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## JHE (Dec 3, 2012)

Dandred said:


> OP, I recommend this book
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Children-Learning-English-Jayne-Moon/dp/1405080027
> 
> I wouldn't say it was essential but if you want to improve your ability to teach kids its a must.


 
Thanks for the recommendation - and I still half-think that I should learn how to teach children.  It would open up many job opportunities in many places.

However, in the near future I have no intention of teaching children.  About two months after starting this thread, I learned something that I wish I had learned much earlier:  there is loads and loads and loads of work in Madrid teaching _adults_.  It's amazing.  In the midst of a terrible recession and unemployment at over 26%, there is still a massive amount of English-teaching available here.  I even have to turn work down!  I have no need to deal with children.  I don't even need to deal with teenagers.


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## extra dry (Dec 4, 2012)

how is Korea? getting cold i hear


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## Dandred (Dec 6, 2012)

Snowed a shit load yesterday and I had to walk 6 miles home as the buses couldn't run.......

Got down to -12 last nigh and a steady -2 today.....it's not too bad once you get used to it.


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