# Have the UCKG infiltrated Sainsbury's?



## Louloubelle (Dec 20, 2009)

I hate the UCKG so much that it hurts

Last Saturday they were rattling collection tins outside Sainsbury's in Brixton and this week they are doing the same outside Sainsbury's in Camden Road.

I know the people who run the church next door to Sainsbury's in Camden as they do a lot of good work with elderly vulnerable and homeless people.

For the last few years they have sung carols outside Sainbury's in Camden to raise money for charity. 

This year they were told that  they were not allowed to sing carols but instead the effin UCKG were there instead. 

Have the UCKG infiltrated Sainsbury's?

Seriously I would love to know if this bunch of criminals have sent their drones to beg for cash outside Sainsbury's in other parts of London.

For anyone who doesn't know about the UCKG you can read about them here


**ed: shitty spam link removed*


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 20, 2009)

They were the ones who were implicated in the death of Victoria Climbie, weren't they? WTF are Sainsbury playing at?


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

Write a letter to the Sainsbury's store manager to air your concerns?

Never encountered the UCKG myself but I'm not getting much positive vibes from either your link or wiki!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Church_of_the_Kingdom_of_God


----------



## trashpony (Dec 20, 2009)

Ooh that's weird because they were outside both the Sainsbos in Kilburn on Friday. I was too hungover to realise the implications. I didn't think there was anything to stop random people standing on the pavement outside shops rattling tins

ETA: the UKCG have a huge HQ on Kilburn High Road so I thought it was connected to that


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They were the ones who were implicated in the death of Victoria Climbie, weren't they?



Indeed 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1102191.stm


----------



## fogbat (Dec 20, 2009)

Louloubelle said:


> I know the people who run the church next door to Sainsbury's in Camden as they do a lot of good work with elderly vulnerable and homeless people.
> 
> For the last few years they have sung carols outside Sainbury's in Camden to raise money for charity.
> *
> This year they were told that  they were not allowed to sing carols but instead the effin UCKG were there instead. *



Are those two things connected, though? Were the Camden church told they couldn't sing carols there, specifically because the UCKG would be there?


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 20, 2009)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They were the ones who were implicated in the death of Victoria Climbie, weren't they? WTF are Sainsbury playing at?



Yes

That little girl was taken to the UCKG in Finsbury Park 4 times in the last week of her life.

On the fourth time the pastor on that occasion suggested that it might be a good idea for her to be taken to hospital but on the other 3 occasions nobody expressed concern about her numerous burns, cuts, bruising and other injuries and on at least one of those occasions they performed some kind of exorcism on her, believing her to be possessed by satan.   The child was malnourished to the point of being literally starving yet nobody seemed to notice. 

Last Saturday I got into a bit of a strong exchange of views with the young woman collecting for the UCKG outside Brixton Sainsbury's.

Apparently she was there when Victoria was brought to the church and "it wasn't at all how they said it was in the newspapers". 

She dismissed me as an agent of satan trying to steal her joy. 

It was an interesting experience.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 20, 2009)

fogbat said:


> Are those two things connected, though? Were the Camden church told they couldn't sing carols there, specifically because the UCKG would be there?



No they were not told that 

It does seem interesting that a tradition of carols form a local church was stopped at exactly the same time that the UCKG have been given permission to take their place. 

I'm also genuinely interested to know whether people have seen UCKG outside their local Sainsbury's.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

Louloubelle said:


> She dismissed me as an agent of satan trying to steal her joy.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 20, 2009)

trashpony said:


> Ooh that's weird because they were outside both the Sainsbos in Kilburn on Friday. I was too hungover to realise the implications. I didn't think there was anything to stop random people standing on the pavement outside shops rattling tins
> 
> ETA: the UKCG have a huge HQ on Kilburn High Road so I thought it was connected to that



Thank you so much

If they are popping up outside Sainsbury's and not other shops in different parts of London then it's something happening policy wise at Sainsbury's head office or possibly London office.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

Louloubelle said:


> No they were not told that
> 
> It does seem interesting that a tradition of carols form a local church was stopped at exactly the same time that the UCKG have been given permission to take their place.
> 
> I'm also genuinely interested to know whether people have seen UCKG outside their local Sainsbury's.



I'd write to the local Sainsbury's and copy any communication to their head office, voicing your concerns about the UCKG and also to enquire whether the store should be supporting a local church instead (and if the above is connected).

Will keep a look out at the Sainsbury's in the Stratford Centre


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

* Sorry, I didn't intend the above to sound like me telling you what to do btw, Louloubelle, just if you're concerned then its worth making your feelings known.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 20, 2009)

stephj said:


> * Sorry, I didn't intend the above to sound like me telling you what to do btw, Louloubelle, just if you're concerned then its worth making your feelings known.



I didn't read it as you telling me what to do


----------



## salem (Dec 20, 2009)

They were all over Angel yesterday, including outside Sainsburys (but the whole of Angel was covered with them every couple of metres)

I actually thought they were quite sweet - each singing their own little song.

Just reading through the other links now though.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 20, 2009)

UCKG now chased out of Wood Green Sainsbury's
http://www.haringey.org.uk/content/...-green-sainsburys&catid=40:religion&Itemid=59
edit
(chased out of Wood green Sainsbury's in December 2008)

read this 
http://mail.haringey.org.uk/pipermail/hsg_haringey.org.uk/2008-December/000349.html

oooh, this is interesting too 
http://tessera2009.blogspot.com/2009_09_01_archive.html


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 20, 2009)

salem said:


> literally teaming .


 
It's lucky you weren't on the pedantry thread there, sir.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's lucky you weren't on the pedantry thread there, sir.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

Louloubelle said:


> UCKG now chased out of Wood Green Sainsbury's
> http://www.haringey.org.uk/content/...-green-sainsburys&catid=40:religion&Itemid=59
> 
> 
> ...



Slap some ASBO's


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 20, 2009)

they were outside the sainsburys at holborn on friday too


----------



## Badgers (Dec 20, 2009)

Just popped to my local corner shop and they were not there.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 20, 2009)

They've got a pop-up offering festive exorcisms on the Sainsbury's website.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 20, 2009)

Louloubelle said:


> Yes
> 
> That little girl was taken to the UCKG in Finsbury Park 4 times in the last week of her life.
> 
> On the fourth time the pastor on that occasion suggested that it might be a good idea for her to be taken to hospital but on the other 3 occasions nobody expressed concern about her numerous burns, cuts, bruising and other injuries and on at least one of those occasions they performed some kind of exorcism on her, believing her to be possessed by satan.   The child was malnourished to the point of being literally starving yet nobody seemed to notice.


But that's similar to her experiences of social services, isn't it? Maybe even A&E? Social Servies actually blanked her in the end, this lot didn't?

I don't know how complicit any of those entities were absolutely or relative to each other; has anyone from the church faced legal proceedings?

What are people actually saying here - that UCKG contributed to the death of Victoria Climbie?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 20, 2009)

Morrison's is also in league with the devil. They've been outside my local one for the last week or so.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 20, 2009)

they were in m&s in brum last week. According to their website they have some major charity sponsorship deals.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 20, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> What are people actually saying here - that UCKG contributed to the death of Victoria Climbie?



The pastor who saw her believed she was possessed by the devil.


----------



## Get Involved (Dec 20, 2009)

trashpony said:


> Ooh that's weird because they were outside both the Sainsbos in Kilburn on Friday. I was too hungover to realise the implications. I didn't think there was anything to stop random people standing on the pavement outside shops rattling tins
> 
> ETA: the UKCG have a huge HQ on Kilburn High Road so I thought it was connected to that



It's these guys who have been outside Kilburn High Road Sainsbury's every time I have been there in the last two weeks: http://www.ukyouth.org/ - singing carols quite badly, but quite harmless otherwise I think?

edit: actually they seem to be based in Avon. So who knows. I thought they had UK Youth stickers on their collection boxes


----------



## trashpony (Dec 20, 2009)

Get Involved said:


> It's these guys who have been outside Kilburn High Road Sainsbury's every time I have been there in the last two weeks: http://www.ukyouth.org/ - singing carols quite badly, but quite harmless otherwise I think?
> 
> edit: actually they seem to be based in Avon. So who knows. I thought they had UK Youth stickers on their collection boxes



No, they're ukcg youth group. Don't be fooled. That massive white building opposite the Tricycle is one of their London centres.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 20, 2009)

stephj said:


> I'd write to the local Sainsbury's and copy any communication to their head office, voicing your concerns about the UCKG and also to enquire whether the store should be *supporting a local church instead *(and if the above is connected).
> 
> Will keep a look out at the Sainsbury's in the Stratford Centre



How do you mean? UCKG is a local church.  At least there is one local to Sainsbury's in Brixton.


----------



## ajdown (Dec 20, 2009)

quimcunx said:


> How do you mean? UCKG is a local church.  At least there is one local to Sainsbury's in Brixton.



I think there is some attempt to differentiate here between "mainstream Christian Churches" and "the slightly odd, charismatic, evangelical, somewhat cult like groups claiming to be Christians" .


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 20, 2009)

They were at Tottenham Hale retail park a few days ago.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 20, 2009)

quimcunx said:


> How do you mean? UCKG is a local church.  At least there is one local to Sainsbury's in Brixton.



Soz, I mean't to differentiate the UCKG to the 'local one' which Louloubelle refers to in the OP which does lots of good work.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 20, 2009)

goldenecitrone said:


> The pastor who saw her believed she was possessed by the devil.


Ok, so what's the next step in the argument given he also wanted her taken to hospital, after social servies didn't?

Just make a case someone please, becasue all I'm reading in this thread is innuendo and supermarket locations?


----------



## durruti02 (Dec 20, 2009)

they are verywhere at the moment - i talk to them occasionally and their reaction is almost all cultish i.e no recognition of reality . I alwys ask them where the money is going, and they say new centres. when i say do you realise Bishop macedo and his cronies is creaming money off they go cultish and say it is all lies and you shouldn't believe what you read in the papers. teh sda thing is many of them say they were alkies/addicts beofree  and without the church they would be in the gutter, but does that excuse that it is a pyramid scheme?? they have also clearly been rehearsed as when i ask was jesus rich or poor, they immediately twig and say he was rich and ignore it when i say but he had no money. the only time i got through to a pair was when i pretended to be a christian 

uckg are a real problem as they are also ultra conservative politically .. how we deal with them i am still not sure


----------



## durruti02 (Dec 20, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> Ok, so what's the next step in the argument given he also wanted her taken to hospital, after social servies didn't?
> 
> Just make a case someone please, becasue all I'm reading in this thread is innuendo and supermarket locations?



social services didn't deal with her because they were cash strapped and hung up about issues of abuse and removing kids from guardians so .. wrong 

UCKG didn't do anything because they believed and or encouraged the guardians to believe that the girl was possessed by demons. SO the guardians continued to abuse and in fact ended up killing the girl. .. so .. evil 

so two things of an entirely different order of wrongness


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 20, 2009)

ajdown said:


> I think there is some attempt to differentiate here between "mainstream Christian Churches" and "the slightly odd, charismatic, evangelical, somewhat cult like groups claiming to be Christians" .



If they believe in Christ as our saviour they're christians.  Evangelicals groups are Christian groups.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 20, 2009)

durruti02 said:


> they are verywhere at the moment - i talk to them occasionally and their reaction is almost all cultish i.e no recognition of reality . I alwys ask them where the money is going, and they say new centres. when i say do you realise Bishop macedo and his cronies is creaming money off they go cultish and say it is all lies and you shouldn't believe what you read in the papers. teh sda thing is many of them say they were alkies/addicts beofree  and without the church they would be in the gutter, but does that excuse that it is a pyramid scheme?? they have also clearly been rehearsed as when i ask was jesus rich or poor, they immediately twig and say he was rich and ignore it when i say but he had no money. the only time i got through to a pair was when i pretended to be a christian
> 
> uckg are a real problem as they are also ultra conservative politically .. how we deal with them i am still not sure



I was on the bus to Kennington the other day and I noticed a new centre opened up on Brixton road.  Seemed to be offering help with alcholism and drugs, musical instrument lessons and prayer meetings.  The Redeemed Church of God or something.   

I don't trust 'em.


----------



## durruti02 (Dec 20, 2009)

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an010715-18.html

Along the way, Macedo has become a multimillionaire who draws criticism like the devout attract demons. A few years after he held his first service, in a tiny mortuary in Rio, unsubstantiated rumors began circulating about his multimillion-dollar international empire being little more than a giant money-laundering operation for the Colombian drug cartel. In 1996, the Brazilian press quoted Interpol official Romeu Tuma as saying that the U.S. Department of Justice had been asked to investigate the allegations; now, five years later, neither Interpol nor the U.S. Attorney's Office will comment on the matter. The unproven accusations of seedy drug connections have followed the church to Europe, where a 1997 report by the Belgian parliament claimed the church is out to defraud believers: "This is an authentic crime organization whose only goal is to enrich itself. This is an extreme form of religious merchandizing."


----------



## durruti02 (Dec 20, 2009)

quimcunx said:


> I was on the bus to Kennington the other day and I noticed a new centre opened up on Brixton road.  Seemed to be offering help with alcholism and drugs, musical instrument lessons and prayer meetings.  The Redeemed Church of God or something.
> 
> I don't trust 'em.



you're right they are all crooks .. but tragically the fulfill a social need and while i want to hate them actually they just show us how we ( me included) are failing our neighbours and fellow humans


----------



## ajdown (Dec 20, 2009)

quimcunx said:


> If they believe in Christ as our saviour they're christians.  Evangelicals groups are Christian groups.



"Some", certainly.  All?  Certainly not.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 20, 2009)

durruti02 said:


> http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news1/an010715-18.html
> 
> Along the way, Macedo has become a multimillionaire who draws criticism like the devout attract demons. A few years after he held his first service, in a tiny mortuary in Rio, unsubstantiated rumors began circulating about his multimillion-dollar international empire being little more than a giant money-laundering operation for the Colombian drug cartel. In 1996, the Brazilian press quoted Interpol official Romeu Tuma as saying that the U.S. Department of Justice had been asked to investigate the allegations; now, five years later, neither Interpol nor the U.S. Attorney's Office will comment on the matter. The unproven accusations of seedy drug connections have followed the church to Europe, where a 1997 report by the Belgian parliament claimed the church is out to defraud believers: "This is an authentic crime organization whose only goal is to enrich itself. This is an extreme form of religious merchandizing."



Good post 

some links that are relevant 

http://www.federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=31&sid=1738026

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...at-drives-evil-from-the-possessed-701515.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1314707/Purging-of-demons-nets-millions.html

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/236...uggesting-that-blessed-oil-cured-heart-defect


----------



## TopCat (Dec 21, 2009)

ajdown said:


> I think there is some attempt to differentiate here between "mainstream Christian Churches" and "the slightly odd, charismatic, evangelical, somewhat cult like groups claiming to be Christians" .



They are all mental.


----------



## IMR (Dec 21, 2009)

Things like the UCKG are fascinating developments. The social conditions which proved so fertile for the UCKG in Brazil are now beginning to be replicated here.


----------



## blossie33 (Dec 21, 2009)

They are EVERYWHERE in north London at the moment -  Hackney, Finsbury Park, Angel, even Muswell Hill and have been for the last couple of weeks. It seems to be a full on crusade - I assume they have to have permission from the council to do this? 

People give to them because they think they are giving to a general charitable cause (they ARE a registered charity). They were collecting from the Arsenal fans outside the pubs on a match day and I'm sure they had no idea what it was for!

I know who they are so I asked one of the people what they were actually collecting for - was it for their church and she said yes, for their churches care centres. I told her I don't donate to denominational charites, she was very polite and said 'fair enough'.


----------



## fogbat (Dec 21, 2009)

Their Peckham HQ has been out of action for months, while they pretty much rebuilt the building from the ground up. 

They used to have _"Free counselling"_ adverts outside, inviting people in. May as well have had _"Frightened? Vulnerable? Come right in!"_ emblazoned on the doors.


----------



## Jenerys (Dec 21, 2009)

durruti02 said:


> you're right they are all crooks .. but tragically the fulfill a social need and while i want to hate them actually they just show us how we ( me included) are failing our neighbours and fellow humans



You make a very valid point


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 21, 2009)

8 people collecting inside Costco in Chingford this afternoon, asked the customer service desk why they allowed them in and was told, 'they're a church, collecting for children.'  

Riiiiight.


----------



## IMR (Dec 22, 2009)

I saw them dishing out leaflets and trying to talk to people going in and out of an NHS clinic on Southwall Broadway. Pretty neat way to get a hold of people who already might be anxious and looking for a sympathetic ear.

In fairness, most UCKG footsoldiers are likely to be quite sincere and well-meaning. They seem a younger, more energetic crowd than the Jehovah's Witnesses. Wonder what the membership turnover is like.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 22, 2009)

El Jugs suggested to me that street collections are always about raising a charity public profile rather than making money, because little cash can be raised by charities in this way (compared to other means). I have to say I agree and am guilty of chucking a quid in their bucket the other day before I saw this thread. Collecting 'for the children' is a bit of a fib, though, is it not?


----------



## fogbat (Dec 22, 2009)

pinkmonkey said:


> El Jugs suggested to me that street collections are always about raising a charity public profile rather than making money, because little cash can be raised by charities in this way (compared to other means). I have to say I agree and am guilty of chucking a quid in their bucket the other day before I saw this thread. Collecting 'for the children' is a bit of a fib, though, is it not?



We're all someone's child...


----------



## IMR (Dec 22, 2009)

pinkmonkey said:


> Collecting 'for the children' is a bit of a fib, though, is it not?



They probably believed it when they were saying it. What motivates the footsoldiers won't be the same as what motivates the leadership.

UCKG make a point of trying to recruit people down on their luck and they argue, with some justification, that's a major part of the Christian tradition.

There's a big emphasis on lifting curses in the UCKG too, and on the spiritual power of words.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 23, 2009)

They were collecting for their 'charity' outside my local Tesco the other night.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 23, 2009)

And outside Tesco Brixton.


----------



## Maggot (Dec 23, 2009)

They were collecting in Bromley High St today. Saying that they are providing shelter for young people. .


----------



## oryx (Dec 23, 2009)

My experience about how much evengelical church-goers care about the homeless:

A few years ago, one cold and wet Sunday I walked from Costcutter on Wandsworth Road past the local evangelical church. 

A very drunk old man from the local wet hostel had fallen over in the street and was trying to get up. I was horrified to see all these righteous people dressed up to the nines ignoring him and even looking at him with horror.

I gave him a hand up and set him on his way - didn't do any more than that but I've never forgotten that incident.


----------



## ajdown (Dec 23, 2009)

oryx said:


> My experience about how much evengelical church-goers care about the homeless:



That may be your experience of that particular group of church-goers - but it's not an absolute.  Lots of churches have homeless projects of some description on the go, or are involved with one.

Do you know what church it was they were going to?


----------



## wtfftw (Dec 24, 2009)

goldenecitrone said:


> Morrison's is also in league with the devil. They've been outside my local one for the last week or so.


They're frequently outside Morrison's in holloway, but also just the nags head area.


----------



## oryx (Dec 24, 2009)

ajdown said:


> That may be your experience of that particular group of church-goers - but it's not an absolute.  Lots of churches have homeless projects of some description on the go, or are involved with one.
> 
> Do you know what church it was they were going to?



Tin rattling, knitting socks and donating blankets are different things from helping people in distress on the street face to face. I got the distinct impression this bunch of Pharisees didn't want to know because the guy was dirty, smelly and drunk. 

It was the church opposite the bingo hall on Wandsworth Road.


----------



## Cid (Dec 24, 2009)

Still loads in Angel... whoever organises them is certainly a cunning fucker, absolutely nothing to identify them to the average passer-by, their emblem just looks like a heart as well.

Was talking to a friend about them not long ago, and it is worth complaining to supermarket management, apparently they often don't really know much about them and they have been banned before.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 24, 2009)

inside catford tescos this morning


----------



## smokedout (Dec 24, 2009)

> It is illegal in this country to hold a Street Collection to collect money or sell articles for the benefit of charitable or other purposes without obtaining a Street Collection Licence from the Council if that collection is to be held 'in a street or public place'. A 'public place' is a 'place where the public has access'.
> 
> It is often assumed that collections can be held in shop doorways or car parks do not need and Street Collection Licence because they are being held on 'privately owned land'. This is not true, as the legislation does not mention the ownership of the land or treat collections on 'privately owned land' as exempt from the licensing regulations. A shop doorway or carpark, when that shop is open for trading, is a 'public place' because the public has access at that time. No other licence would be valid. A Pedlars Licence, issued by the Police cannot be used for this purpose. Only Local Authorities issue Street Collection Licences under Section 5 of the Police, Factories, etc. Miscellaneous Provisions Act 1916, as amended by the Local Government Act 1972 and Schedule 29 of that Act.



http://www.rushcliffe.gov.uk/doc.asp?cat=9851


----------



## smokedout (Dec 24, 2009)

http://www.met.police.uk/charities/streetcollection.htm

looks like theyre acting illegally in full view of the filth

take photos and lets get em in the new year

Stalin's offered a medal and pardon to anyone who gets a photo of a ukcg collector stood next to a copper


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 24, 2009)

Cid said:


> it is worth complaining to supermarket management, apparently they often don't really know much about them and they have been banned before.


Yeah, it is. They are now banned from Costco (all stores) and Tottenham Hale Retail Park.


----------



## Giles (Dec 25, 2009)

quimcunx said:


> If they believe in Christ as our saviour they're christians.  Evangelicals groups are Christian groups.



True, but there's big difference between your standard-issue Christians and some of these more cult-like groups.

Even the "Jesus Army" can genuinely claim to do "good works" by "helping" the really messed-up. But their help seems to often come with an overwhelming, brainwashing side to it. 

From seeing the UCKG lot in Kilburn, it all SEEMS nice enough, but a cursory Google about them turns up loads of nasty stuff.....

Giles..


----------



## sam/phallocrat (Dec 25, 2009)

they were all over Greenwich a few weeks ago


----------



## Awen (Dec 25, 2009)

I have noticed how they seem to have changed their website to being a help centre. They have removed a lot of material...

UCKG are a homophobic and misogynistic institution. Did anybody read their website and the 'agony aunt' stuff they had? Basically it went something like "my husband treats me like shit" and the UCKG answer was "you're a woman, ergo you're in the wrong... you should be serving men" 

Aaaand so on.

They appear to be out trying to exploit the most vulnerable people by disguising themselves as providing a service. It's creepy... What scares me more is that there are so many young people in this organisation. 

ETA: Can I complain to the council about them?


----------



## HackneyE9 (Dec 27, 2009)

Run-up to the election, innit?

Tories, if they win, want to channel/privatise a lot of social care budget through these sort of "Christian" groups.

God help us.


----------



## oryx (Dec 27, 2009)

HackneyE9 said:


> Run-up to the election, innit?
> 
> Tories, if they win, want to channel/privatise a lot of social care budget through these sort of "Christian" groups.
> 
> God help us.


----------



## Iguana (Dec 27, 2009)

Do these collectors wear blue t-shirts with white writing?  There have been a number of collectors around Wimbledon all month.  They are there nearly everyday and quite evangelical and annoying.  I suspect they may be the same people.


----------



## se5 (Dec 29, 2009)

They were outside Oxford Circus tube station in the days running up to Christmas collecting and singing Christmas songs - wonder if Boris / whoever is in charge of tube knows/ authorised them?


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 29, 2009)

http://www.met.police.uk/charities/streetcollection.htm

Just complain, it's easy.


----------



## hipipol (Dec 31, 2009)

They do seem to be a dangerous bunch of manipulating shits, seem to sing a lot round Peckham, dont seem to impress that many round here tho judging by the reponse I've seen

Still it could just be that we have an endless list of Godmen here, might just have been a rival sect trying to cause a fuss....


----------



## recumbent (Jan 12, 2010)

They appear to have broken several Met Police rules on street collection.

http://www.met.police.uk/charities/streetcollection.htm

Taking a look at their financial statements for recent years, they also *appear* to (exclusively?) have spent street collection money for a period of yrs on improving their property assets, which are considerable. (If you spend some time with the accounts (esp Fundraising, Restricted Reserves etc.) for several consecutive years, you'll see that there's been something interesting going on...)

I have just taken 5 minutes to call the main non-urgent police number; you can also use the online form.
http://www.met.police.uk/contacts/

If you saw them and want to make a report/complaint, please do. The person I spoke to said they will act/investigate if the get "a number of reports on it".


----------



## smokedout (Jan 12, 2010)

this matter has been referred to the politburo


----------



## harpo (Mar 15, 2010)

And they're back.  

This time, not collecting, but handing out 'womens health magazines' which seem to suggest that the power of their church is all you need for breast cancer. 

Liverpool Road, Islington.  Not directly outside Sainsbury's any more.


----------



## gascoyneone (Dec 19, 2010)

The church are inside Tesco Well Street Hackney, at the door and at each till. Surely more deserving charities applied to collect . I'd be interested to know more about selection process  . I have written to Tesco but the standard reply comes back. I think this is combination of  ignorance and he who shouts loudest


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2010)

They were outside Sainsburys in Brixton yesterday too.


----------



## Maggot (Dec 19, 2010)

gascoyneone said:


> The church are inside Tesco Well Street Hackney, at the door and at each till. Surely more deserving charities applied to collect . I'd be interested to know more about selection process  . I have written to Tesco but the standard reply comes back. I think this is combination of  ignorance and he who shouts loudest


 That's really worrying. 

Would be good to have some leaflet explaining how dodgy they are to try to stop people giving.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 19, 2010)

Is it worth writing to Oxfam and the other charities they say they give to to ask what the deal is?


----------



## ash (Dec 20, 2010)

I have seen them in Brixton and Clapham.  i will be contacting the RNIB one of theirso called  'charities'  this is well out order.  maybe the BBC should be approached they may do a piece on 'inside out'  does anyone have any contacts??


----------



## blossie33 (Dec 20, 2010)

As I posted on the other thread about the UCKG, I saw them collecting outside the Tesco and Sainsbury locals in Stoke Newington High St and also Lidl in Finsbury Park a couple of weeks ago and they've been outside Morrisons in Stamford Hill on Saturday.

They are definitely more low key that last year though, presumably because of the complaints.


----------



## quimcunx (Oct 22, 2012)

Since this thread I have found myself generally eyeing up charity collectors, especially round brixton, with suspicion.   I give less often when I don't recognise the charity name, and mostly I don't. 

Gave money to one called Green Era at M&S last night.  Had a look at their website and it all seemed a bit vague/confused but whatever except on one of their pages they'd embedded video footage of a UFO sighting in Japan.    

Transmission seems to be one I see from time to time.  From my googling it looks like they are methodist so I won't give to them for my own personal prefs.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2012)

Sadly, I've reached a point of complete mistrust of anyone rattling a bucket outside Brixton tube, so never give them anything and donate online instead.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2012)

uckg have been hanging about outside the dalston shopping centre a few times over the past three months: but so have newsline and nation of islam.


----------



## Louloubelle (Oct 22, 2012)

Just an update, I mentioned on this or another thread about a local priest who was angry with them for nicking his churches carol singing spot outside Camden Sainsbury's and was on a mission to thwart them.   

Sometime last year I handed the priest a file I had on the UCKG to help him in his mission.  I had included news reports of the leaders of the UCKG being involved in serious organised crime, drug trafficking and money laundering as well as reports about the treatment of Victoria Climbe.

He took looked at the file as if I had presented him with a turd and announced "oh no, that's nothing to do with me I can't be bothered with all that!  I'm only interested in the carol singing and getting them off my patch!" 

A truly spiritual man that priest.


----------



## harpo (Oct 22, 2012)

It'll soon be the season where they're all over the place, tunelessly singing carols as they dupe people into giving for 'sick children' or some general sentiment on the bucket.


----------



## blossie33 (Oct 22, 2012)

They were out in another guise in Hackney a few weeks ago. Forgotten the name it was but I sort of guessed by the sort of chat the girl was giving. When I asked if it was the UCKG she admitted it was. They were not collecting, just trying to get people to go to the church.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 4, 2012)

They were outside Sainsburys in Camden on Saturday. I called the non-emergency police number and it turns out that the "license" they claimed to have was not real and just knocked up on a computer, so they were collecting illegally.

The cop I spoke to, amazingly, was fairly well informed about the UCKG and thanked me for calling the police.

He said that it takes months to obtain a proper license and they won't be able to get one this side of Christmas.

His advice to me was that if I saw them of any other UCKG carol singers I should call 101 (non emergency police no) and report them for street collecting without a license. The cops will turn up and move them on.

I very much doubt that the other UCKG carol singers have proper licences. You should ask to see the license if they claim to have one. The fake one that showed me had no Met Police seal on it, was just a piece of paper with a false claim written on it saying that they had permission from the police to collect outside Sainsburys, M&S and Tescos.

Also, and this is important, the drones doing the carol singing are victims of the cult, so it is important to try not to get angry with them. Just call the cops and get them moved.

Some interesting videos on youtube form a former UCKG member, including this one


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 4, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> I'm also genuinely interested to know whether people have seen UCKG outside their local Sainsbury's.


They used to knock on the doors on my estate with their collecting buckets and shining faces. Haven't seen any for a few months though. They used to rattle their buckets all around Brixton though. Outside Sainsburys is a popular spot, not just for UCKG.


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 4, 2012)

smokedout said:


> http://www.met.police.uk/charities/streetcollection.htm
> 
> looks like theyre acting illegally in full view of the filth
> 
> ...


Have we got any coppers who are members on the sly? They might cheat! Free hobnobs and that....


----------



## fogbat (Dec 4, 2012)

They were on Oxford St on Saturday.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 6, 2012)

I remember this thread when it was first started , but to me the most interesting thing about it is what's revealed just above -- that the UCKG are operating without licence -- squatting, essentially. (See also smokedout's quote of the relevant law, at the bottom of page two).

If Sainsburys (etc) had a bit of soddin gumption their managers would endeavour to get them moved themselves. Have you had any correspondence with Sainburys Louloubelle?

But that idea of phoning the 101 number idea to let the Police know may be a helpful tip anyway.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 6, 2012)

I also appreciate the risk that much more benign charities and churches, and maybe political groups too, could be caught up if complaints are too vigorous and indiscriminate.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 6, 2012)

I don't think shops have any control over the pavement though. The Sainsburys in Central Brixton isn't like the Tescos on Acre Lane. The former is right on the street, the latter set back on its own land. I can't really see that this is something Sainsburys have any control over. Long before it was there there'd be people collecting, getting petitions signed etc etc.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 6, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> If Sainsburys (etc) had a bit of soddin gumption their managers would endeavour to get them moved themselves. Have you had any correspondence with Sainburys Louloubelle?


 
Yes I spoke to the Sainsbury's manager and he came outside to ask them to move.  He complained that Sainsburys has it own local charity and that, apart from anything else, the UCKG were taking money from that charity. 

The UCKG people waved their fake license around and insisted that they were entitled to be there.  The manager questioned the authenticity of the license but they insisted it was real.  The manager acted with great integrity but here was a limit to what he could do.  This is when I phoned 101 and a cop turned up.  

After talking to the UCKG about the fake license and the law they left.  I then took the cop into sainsburys to talk to the manager and the cop told the manager that they were acting illegally and advised him to call 101 if they turned up again this side of Christmas.  



William of Walworth said:


> But that idea of phoning the 101 number idea to let the Police know may be a helpful tip anyway.


 
It is not a helpful tip, it is the only thing to do that will stop them.  

So many people are angry about the UCKG abuses that the collectors themselves (who are victims - the rich people at the top are never out singing carols in the snow) are at risk of being assaulted by angry locals. 

If you try to discuss anything with the carol singers they just sing louder and ignore you which IME can leave you feeling very angry.   Best to just call 101 and report unlicensed street collection by the UCKG.  No drama, nothing escalates into something ugly, they will just get moved on, which is what we all want yes?


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 6, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I also appreciate the risk that much more benign charities and churches, and maybe political groups too, could be caught up if complaints are too vigorous and indiscriminate.


 
Any individual or group needs a police license to collect in the street. 

If you are in doubt you can call 101 and the cops will come and check the license. 

There are plenty of crooks and dodgy fake charities collecting from well meaning people.  They deflect money from real charities and good causes and they should be stopped from conning people. 

If you call 101 and the collectors have a licence (I have done this re door to door collections) the police will let you know and thank you for your vigilance in taking care of your neighbourhood.  No harm done


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 7, 2012)

Interesting posts from Mrs M and Louloubelle, thanks.


----------



## harpo (Dec 9, 2012)

Yes, thanks for the info and nice one Louloubelle

They were at Walthamstow station yesterday and also outside Libertys.  I had thought that I might get short shrift from the police for contacting them but seems not, which is heartening, so that is what I shall do in future.


----------



## ash (Dec 9, 2012)

Outside Brixton tube yesterday


----------



## Mapped (Dec 9, 2012)

I had them at my front door yesterday. They can fuck right off with this idea. 

http://www.uckg.org/uk/?page_id=46621

UCKG Walthamstow help centre  No thanks!

Waltham Forest Council agree too and last week said they'd support a compulsory purchase order to take that building off them if someone has the funds to buy it.


----------



## harpo (Dec 9, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> I had them at my front door yesterday. They can fuck right off with this idea.
> 
> http://www.uckg.org/uk/?page_id=46621
> 
> ...


I read that . They've said they won't go quietly though and I don't know exactly how 'compulsory' a CPO is or what the law is that surrounds it. The last in an exhaustive line of appeals is still being heard but the CPO seems good news. I hope it's got some teeth.

They came to your front _door_? Oh let them try it at mine!!

The sheer delusional nerve of them.


----------



## blossie33 (Dec 9, 2012)

There were three of them singing outside Waitrose in Crouch End yesterday. I was talking to a guy collecting for the Rotary club a bit further down the road, he didn't know anything about them and was wondering who they were.


----------



## harpo (Dec 9, 2012)

The only thing to do is what Louloubelle says and ring 101. It's skanky fraud and manipulative indoctrination the UCKG perpetrates, nowt of the 'honest crim' about them.  I didn't think til reading here that the cops would take it seriously but seems they do.


----------



## Mapped (Dec 9, 2012)

harpo said:


> I read that . They've said they won't go quietly though and I don't know exactly how 'compulsory' a CPO is or what the law is that surrounds it. The last in an exhaustive line of appeals is still being heard but the CPO seems good news. I hope it's got some teeth.
> 
> They came to your front _door_? Oh let them try it at mine!!
> 
> The sheer delusional nerve of them.


 
They got shooo'd away pretty quick. Mrs had them last week as well

Regarding the CPO. I've had some limited professional experience in this area. I had some very minor involvement in kicking people and businesses off the Olympic site  The CPO law is VERY compulsory. If it comes to this they will lose loads of cash as they paid way above market rate when they bought the building. 

They've no chance at succeeding with this project as the council and the community see them for what they are


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 9, 2012)

They were singing rather badly outside victoria station yesterday too.


----------



## harpo (Dec 9, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> They got shooo'd away pretty quick. Mrs had them last week as well
> 
> Regarding the CPO. I've had some limited professional experience in this area. I had some very minor involvement in kicking people and businesses off the Olympic site  The CPO law is VERY compulsory. If it comes to this they will lose loads of cash as they paid way above market rate when they bought the building.
> 
> They've no chance at succeeding with this project as the council and the community see them for what they are


It's certainly starting to look that way . This may be the first time they've been challenged and driven back like this.  They're showing their nasty colours, there's not a semblance of respect or tolerance of the local community view left of their strategy and it's not such a bad thing to have that so blatantly on show.

Good to hear a CPO has some power but I imagine they are capable of turning very nasty.  

Have you engaged them in conversation at the front door?  I think there's a part of me that might be tempted.


----------



## harpo (Dec 9, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> They were singing rather badly outside victoria station yesterday too.


 
I'm sure I read somewhere about a quirk in the law that allows you to collect money in December if you sing carols and that's why they do it.  They never make any effort to sing properly they just make a token effort to tick the box so they can rinse money.


----------



## Mapped (Dec 9, 2012)

harpo said:


> It's certainly starting to look that way . This may be the first time they've been challenged and driven back like this. They're showing their nasty colours, there's not a semblance of respect or tolerance of the local community view left of their strategy and it's not such a bad thing to have that so blatantly on show.
> 
> Good to hear a CPO has some power but I imagine they are capable of turning very nasty.
> 
> Have you engaged them in conversation at the front door? I think there's a part of me that might be tempted.


 
I just told them to piss off 

The CPO is VERY powerful and they'll have no choice about it. There are routes they may take for appeals and land tribunals which may take ages and drag on and on, but I really can't see them hanging on to that building if someone else comes up with the cash. 

The money has to come from somewhere though and I don't think WFC will be up for buying it. Hopefully the Cinema Trust thing has proper legs, finance and organisation.


----------



## harpo (Dec 9, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> I just told them to piss off
> 
> The CPO is VERY powerful and they'll have no choice about it. There are routes they may take for appeals and land tribunals which may take ages and drag on and on, but I really can't see them hanging on to that building if someone else comes up with the cash.
> 
> The money has to come from somewhere though and I don't think WFC will be up for buying it. Hopefully the Cinema Trust thing has proper legs, finance and organisation.


http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne...up_defiant_over_threat_of_forced_cinema_sale/
Did you read this?  It's all so positive .  And fair play to Sadie Frost.


----------



## StoneRoad (Dec 9, 2012)

I haven't seen these ******ers oop north yet, I shall be pleased to tell them to do one if they show up.

Real Charities are having enough problems with fundraising without this sort of problem.
see : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20304267 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20652731

I collect for the RNLI......and even that has been getting less this year.


----------



## Mapped (Dec 9, 2012)

harpo said:


> http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne...up_defiant_over_threat_of_forced_cinema_sale/
> Did you read this? It's all so positive . And fair play to Sadie Frost.


 
Sadie Frost  She opened a clothes shop near where I used to live in N1. Me and Mrs spotted her and Kate Moss stumbling around wasted after their opening evening There seemed to be lots of 'sales' happening at that place, don't know if it' still in business.

I might see if there's anyway to get involved in this cinema trust stuff.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 11, 2012)

ash said:


> Outside Brixton tube yesterday


Yep. I saw them. Luckily there was a load of police there for the Starbucks demo, who moved them on sharpish.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Dec 11, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> They were singing rather badly outside victoria station yesterday too.


 
I think they were inside the station with buckets this week. I couldn't make out what it said on the bucket but given what I read on urban I pretty sure it was them.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 11, 2012)

They say any old shite.  but they have the white bird on red circle type logo.  It always used to remind me of the BHF one.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 11, 2012)

I'm pretty sure it was them chanting 'World AIDS day tomorrow' a couple of weeks ago too.


----------



## ash (Dec 11, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yep. I saw them. Luckily there was a load of police there for the Starbucks demo, who moved them on sharpish.


They really piss me off as they are detracting from genuine charities (chugggers aside ) but I'm pleased that the law are taking them seriously.  I agree with the ' don't challenge them as they at victims' stance.  I have had a go in the past and you can tell they really don't get it -almost a glassed eyes response which is scary.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

According to a SP mate of mine they're collecting inside Tesco's now.


----------



## hipipol (Dec 16, 2012)

they were all over Lewisham and Peckham last week

I may offer to sing with a few of them as I have some "special" words for most hymns and carols


----------



## colacubes (Dec 16, 2012)

They were outside Brixton tube yesterday lunchtime.


----------



## Winot (Dec 16, 2012)

Outside Clapham Sainsbury's yesterday.


----------



## Mapped (Dec 22, 2012)

There's a good update here on the current wranglings over the Cinema building in Walthamstow

http://savewalthamstowcinema.org/2012/12/20/emd-inquiry-statement-from-waltham-forest-cinema-trust/


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 22, 2012)

Tottenham Hale today.  they are everywhere. 

When they were outside Brixton tube last weekend I asked a couple of community officers if they had a licence and they seemed to think they did.


----------



## ash (Dec 22, 2012)

Outside they tube and M&S in Brixton today!!


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 23, 2012)

Fuckers were outside Sainsbury's in Camden again yesterday.

One of them, possibly 2 were the same people that the cops asked to move on last time as they did not have a license, so they KNEW that they were acting illegally.

I asked to see their license but they simply claimed to have one (a lie) and refused to show it to me. They were fairly cheeky to me and I think had been trained to cause maximum irritation. I called 101 and was told that the police would attend and that I did not have to wait.

Even so I hung around for a bit attempting to warn people who were about to give them money. I had to leave as they were being so provocative that I felt tempted to start screaming at them in the street John Sweeney style.

I suspect that, knowing that they could not collect legally, they disappeared until the busiest time and then turned up hoping to avoid the police because it is so busy.

I would be interested in actually doing something substantial to stop these people. Nothing illegal of course, but if they are collecting illegally then surely it is OK to stand in front of them and stop them collecting until the police arrive?

Anyone fancy a bit of Christmas eve anti-UCKG action?


----------



## han (Dec 23, 2012)

Sneaky buggers. They're awful. Have you read their free magazine? Awful.


----------



## ash (Dec 23, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> Fuckers were outside Sainsbury's in Camden again yesterday.
> 
> One of them, possibly 2 were the same people that the cops asked to move on last time as they did not have a license, so they KNEW that they were acting illegally.
> 
> ...


I would be tempted the thing that annoys me the most is that people including the venues they stand outside take them at face value.  They are so blatant and smug I've had them call out 'hope you have a merry Xmas' sarcastically when I ignore them which is a bit of a red rag to me.


----------



## Louloubelle (Dec 25, 2012)

Well yesterday they were outside Camden Sainsbury's again and yet again lying and claiming to have a license. 2 of them were the same people who were told that their printed sheet of A4 was not a license and who were told move on by the police.

Basically they KNEW that they were acting illegally and still the cheeky bastards were there blatantly breaking the law and fraudulently claiming money for their "controversial" church / cult.

I phoned 101 and waited for a while, whist attempting to ask them why they were there illegally as they knew they were breaking the law. The fuckers just sang louder, winked at me and wished me a happy Christmas. I had to shout to be heard, so it caused a bit of a scene but I just can't bear seeing them do what they do so I hung on in there until I could feel my anger rising at which point I decided to do my shopping. I suspect that they attend some culty school where they are trained in how to cause maximum annoyance to people who chalenge them, just like the Co$. You have to be careful not to allow yourself to be provoked by them IME.

After bit I went inside Sainsbury's to buy a few bits and pieces but ended up in a jam packed shop, queueing for ages and it was over an hour before I could get out. By this time a PCSO had arrived and was talking to them.

He has asked to see their license and it was the same fake-arse sheet of A4 that they produced last time.

I went over and spoke to the PCSO and he knows the cop I spoke to when they were originally told that their "license" was just a sheet of A4. I gave him my details and will be sending a full email report to my local SNT.

Cheeky fuckers told the PCSO that I was being "insulting" to their church. LOL

One of them threatened to sue me.

More front than Brighton Pier, they are basically fraudulently and somewhat aggressively begging in the full knowledge that what they are doing is illegal and then trying to style it that I am the one in the wrong when I complain.

Well you cheeky fuckers I took a video of all of you with close ups of your faces and I stopped you from conning innocent people outside Sainsbury's on Christmas eve afternoon, which would have been the busiest time for donations.

Merry Christmas!


----------



## twentythreedom (Apr 13, 2013)

These fuckers are in Barnet High St all the fucking time, it's pissing me off. There's no other collections / chuggers / beggars etc and it's a fairly well off area so UCKG are coining it in, and they appear totally legit, usually collecting for 'hungry kids' etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2018)

and they're back in the dalston sainsbury's, both on friday and yesterday


----------



## ash (Dec 3, 2018)

In Brixton outside Superdrug at the weekend


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2018)

ash said:


> In Brixton outside Superdrug at the weekend


They can rattle their fucking buckets and sing all they like, but I'll never give the dodgy fuckers a penny.


----------



## ash (Dec 3, 2018)

editor said:


> They can rattle their fucking buckets and sing all they like, but I'll never give the dodgy fuckers a penny.


Totally agree !! I just wish people weren’t so gullible and are prepared to just give money without questioning or checking the charity status...


----------



## Johnny Doe (Dec 3, 2018)

Every time this thread get bumped I think there is UK Garage playing in Sainsbury


----------



## blossie33 (Dec 11, 2018)

I saw a couple of them in Stokey last week, singing carols and rattling their buckets.

Fortunately they've not been so active these last couple of years since they got into trouble with the Charity Commission after members of the public complaining.
There is a limit to the time any charity is allowed to actively collect money I understand and they were exceeding it by far.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 11, 2018)

they were on the street doing door to door over the weekend, they were told to fuck off


----------



## LHI (Nov 25, 2020)

Louloubelle said:


> I hate the UCKG so much that it hurts
> 
> Last Saturday they were rattling collection tins outside Sainsbury's in Brixton and this week they are doing the same outside Sainsbury's in Camden Road.
> 
> ...


Every Dec for many years I have seen UCKG collecting outside shops wearing silly christmas hats and singing carols. They block the shop doorway. They lied they were a registered charity when they were not. It is illegal for anybody to collect money on the street when they are not a registered charity.

UCKG collect without a licence from the council - not allowed.

And use unsealed buckets - also not allowed.

UCKG even infiltrated Iceland years ago and they were packing bags unsolicited in Iceland and then asking for money when they did so.

I’ve been researching UCKG since in the 5 min I was inside their soup kitchen / food bank 3 different members invited me to their service on Sunday and one even said they can cure my disabilities.

UCKG are a dangerous religious cult preying on vulnerable adults and teenage children. And now UCKG are preying on homeless and vulnerable people at their soup kitchens / food banks in Finsbury Park, Kilburn, Catford, Peckham, Plaistow, Croydon and Leeds. And UCKG Night Angels are preying on people sleeping rough with the offer of free toiletries, blankets, thermal socks and gloves.

UCKG have brainwashed some 12 million people all over the world into giving them 10% of their income - tithe - so that founder Edir Macedo and leaders can live in extreme luxury.

Here’s my article about UCKG:








						Religious cult UCKG preying on homeless & vulnerable
					

UCKG Soup Kitchens – not “caring for our community” – but preying on homeless and vulnerable in Finsbury Park, Stamford Hill, Edmonton, Kilburn, Plaistow, Peckham, Catford, Croydon and …




					londonhomelessinfo.wordpress.com


----------



## Jay Park (Nov 25, 2020)

Harry Smiles said:


> Every time this thread get bumped I think there is UK Garage playing in Sainsbury



ruff cuts of pork loins


----------

