# 23 years old...feel like I am on the scrap heap already



## CharlieChaplin (Apr 11, 2013)

No real work experience (shitty part-time stuff when I was younger). Failed college, scraped into Uni and failed that too.

It's impossible for me to make something of myself. Nobody wants to hire me. Do I have any real prospects at this age or have I missed the bloody boat already?

I'm intelligent, just have very little to show for myself. I feel like I'm finished already. Does anybody have any advice as to what I can do now? Just feel a little lost.

I appreciate any input you can give.


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## Casually Red (Apr 11, 2013)

you can fuck off for a start


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## ymu (Apr 11, 2013)

It's a bad time to be young.

Apply for every job you could possibly do. Wait.

Keep a set of good clothes aside for interviews. You may not be able to afford to replace them a few months down the line.


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## Casually Red (Apr 11, 2013)

ymu said:


> It's a bad time to be young.
> 
> Apply for every job you could possibly do. Wait.
> 
> Keep a set of good clothes aside for interviews. You may not be able to afford to replace them a few months down the line.


 
tell him not to forget to iron his black shirt


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## pseudonarcissus (Apr 11, 2013)

Politics?, become a Labour MP, promotion, Chancellor fo the Dutch of Lancaster then join a fringe party? UKIP?


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## ymu (Apr 11, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> tell him not to forget to iron his black shirt


Oh. Is he?


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## ymu (Apr 11, 2013)

Oh, ffs. Didn't see the name.  @ self


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## CharlieChaplin (Apr 11, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> you can fuck off for a start


 
I just chose the name to be funny. I'm not a fascist in any way.




ymu said:


> It's a bad time to be young.
> 
> Apply for every job you could possibly do. Wait.
> 
> Keep a set of good clothes aside for interviews. You may not be able to afford to replace them a few months down the line.


 
I have a decent suit so I'm okay for job interviews. I have some student loan money left over in my bank account I'm trying to save if worse comes to worse.

I just feel there is no opportunity out there.


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> No real work experience (shitty part-time stuff when I was younger). Failed college, scraped into Uni and failed that too.
> 
> It's impossible for me to make something of myself. Nobody wants to hire me. Do I have any real prospects at this age or have I missed the bloody boat already?
> 
> ...


It takes years to get on the scapheap...chillax..


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## DownwardDog (Apr 11, 2013)

Armed forces. You'll make shit money but you'll learn plenty of useful things, make lifetime friends and have something to put on a CV.

Don't be too down. Everyone one of us who are secure and well heeled in our 40s would trade all our worldly chattels in a heartbeat to be 23 again.


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## pseudonarcissus (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I just chose the name to be funny. I'm not a fascist .


Football management? F1?

Seriously, good luck.

I just wrote something long that sounded patronising, I've been lucky in my career. I wish you every success.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2013)

DownwardDog said:


> *Armed forces.* You'll make shit money but you'll learn plenty of useful things, make lifetime friends and have something to put on a CV.
> 
> Don't be too down. Everyone one of us who are secure and well heeled in our 40s would trade all our worldly chattels in a heartbeat to be 23 again.


 

gone are the days when entry requirement was a pulse.


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## Miss Caphat (Apr 11, 2013)

learn a trade? 
I'm 36 and just got my bachelor's degree this year. 
I truly believed that I could work my way up to some sort of career, because I'm good at a lot of things and work hard and am sort of a perfectionist. Turns out it doesn't really work like that any more.
You really have to have a piece of paper (not necessarily a degree but one which states that you're qualified at something) in order to be taken seriously. 
If I had to do it over again, I would have just played the game. It's been a lot harder than just biting the bullet and doing some sort of formal training/ schooling. 
Look into what fields are hiring with decent pay and find some way to get trained in one of them. You may have to borrow or beg, and it may be a struggle, but it's better than always being broke and never getting anywhere.


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## EastEnder (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> No real work experience (shitty part-time stuff when I was younger). Failed college, scraped into Uni and failed that too.
> 
> It's impossible for me to make something of myself. Nobody wants to hire me. Do I have any real prospects at this age or have I missed the bloody boat already?
> 
> ...


You could start by providing a bit more info.

How long have you been looking?
What sort of jobs have you applied for?
What are your strengths/weaknesses?
Have you got a decent CV, practised your interview technique, etc, etc?


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## Blagsta (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm 41 and training to be a nurse. At 23 you're a kid. Relax and enjoy yourself!


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## DownwardDog (Apr 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> gone are the days when entry requirement was a pulse.


 
The OP seems to have more to offer than that.

He also seems to be given to the sort of gloomy introspection that serves submariners so well so maybe he should try that career path.


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## 8ball (Apr 11, 2013)

Boy band.

Join a boy band.


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## Pat24 (Apr 11, 2013)

Try to get some work experience by volunteering for a charity. I did that whilst at uni and really helped me get paid work afterwards.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 11, 2013)

I have felt like this in the past (and I feel a little bit like this right now), but that is how _they_ want you to feel, hopeless and defeated. 

I am not one to give advice on employment, but I think the first thing you need to do is talk to more people, and get involved in more things. Do some volunteering in something you are interested in. It is something to put on your CV, you get to meet people, and the more people you know and talk to, the more chance there might be that they could point you in the right direction for some work. 

And read. Go to the library. Read everything. Read Marx if you can. Because then you will perhaps begin to develop an understanding of why everything is like it is, and why you feel hopeless. And if you read, write as well. Write it all down. That will help organize your mind, and if you are lucky it could help lead towards getting paid somewhere down the line. 

It is easy to feel defeated, but you have to fight that.


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## seeformiles (Apr 11, 2013)

DownwardDog said:


> Don't be too down. Everyone one of us who are secure and well heeled in our 40s would trade all our worldly chattels in a heartbeat to be 23 again.


 
I wouldn't - it was pretty shit being 23. I was the age of the OP during the recession in the early 90s and it seems to be a repeat of that at the moment. No job offers without experience, no experience without a job, etc. I spent several years working in any job that would take me just to keep a roof over my head - usually for shit money - and wondered if it would ever end. I'd recommend casting your net wide and doing temping jobs for some broad experience and, with any luck, you may find somewhere that you like and feel suitably motivated to approach them for something more permanent. Things will get better and, to quote Yazz, "The only way is up!"


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## Casually Red (Apr 11, 2013)

DownwardDog said:


> Armed forces. You'll make shit money but you'll learn plenty of useful things, make lifetime friends and have something to put on a CV.
> Don't be too down.


 
yeah, just look at Adolf Hitler. At age 23 he was at a right loose end . Rejected from art college repeatedly, semi homeless, totally washed up and completely directionless . No idea what to do with himself  .Then he joined the army, made loads of lifetime friends , had a cv that was positively bursting at the seams and the world was his lobster.

Thats great fucking advice to be giving to young Oswald there .


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## eoin_k (Apr 11, 2013)

You could try marrying above your station, not just some minor toff, but a proper aristocratic family with serious money and political connections.


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## catinthehat (Apr 11, 2013)

VSO? WOOFing ?


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## Pingu (Apr 11, 2013)

DownwardDog said:


> The OP seems to have more to offer than that.
> 
> He also seems to be given to the sort of gloomy introspection that serves submariners so well so maybe he should try that career path.


 
he could practice by spraying a thin film of Wd40 over everything he eats and drinks and living in the box room with an unshielded microwave for a couple of months.


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## CharlieChaplin (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies guys.

One of my big regrets was not remaining at University and finishing a degree. I would like to get one eventually maybe through the OU, but my interests tend to not be of subjects that earn you jobs! Also, having saddled a tidy amount of student debt makes me feel trepidation about adding to it.

I also considered the armed forces but I wouldn't exactly feel thrilled at the prospect of fighting in a conflict like Iraq. The problem with the armed forces is you're not able to choose your own battles (although I think you can technically do this in the territorial army).

I'll probably look into volunteering if nothing else turns up to be honest. It's probably better down the line if I can show I've been doing something with my time rathern than just sitting on the internet.

It's interesting to hear that other people have experienced what I'm going through right now. It's hard not to feel down and in despair when you're constantly hearing about doom and gloom in the economy. It's also very difficult maintaining personal relationships when you're piss poor.

I only ever wanted to do something for a living that had meaning and brought me a lot of joy. It's hard trying to locate that kind of work (mainly because I'm nto sure it even exists).

Appreciate all the feedback though.


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## Greebo (Apr 11, 2013)

Get whatever money you can and leave the UK while you still can.


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## Poot (Apr 11, 2013)

23 is a shit age, you have my condolences. You feel like things are passing you by and probably can't understand that mst other people think you're sooooooooo young with masses of exciting things ahead of you. 

Can't offer much advice but if you have no strings, apply for everything, everywhere and be prepared to travel. And sound confident, even if you're really not.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 11, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Get whatever money you can and leave the UK while you still can.


 
That's my plan. Saved up enough to finally get on a CELTA course. Now all I have to do is do it before I fritter all my savings away.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 11, 2013)

Poot said:


> 23 is a shit age, you have my condolences. You feel like things are passing you by and probably can't understand that mst other people think you're sooooooooo young with masses of exciting things ahead of you.
> 
> Can't offer much advice but if you have no strings, apply for everything, everywhere and be prepared to travel. And sound confident, even if you're really not.


 
Yes!


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys.
> 
> One of my big regrets was not remaining at University and finishing a degree. I would like to get one eventually maybe through the OU, but my interests tend to not be of subjects that earn you jobs! Also, having saddled a tidy amount of student debt makes me feel trepidation about adding to it.
> 
> ...


What subjects are you interested in then?

If you do one you like but doesn't pay well you never have to pay back your loan.


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## 8ball (Apr 11, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> If you do one you like but doesn't pay well you never have to pay back your loan.


 
In 15 years time we will lead the world in archaeology.


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## CharlieChaplin (Apr 11, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> What subjects are you interested in then?
> 
> If you do one you like but doesn't pay well you never have to pay back your loan.


 
There's a PPE course that looks really interesting. God knows what you can do with that (when you're not oxbridge of course).


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## DownwardDog (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I also considered the armed forces but I wouldn't exactly feel thrilled at the prospect of fighting in a conflict like Iraq. The problem with the armed forces is you're not able to choose your own battles (although I think you can technically do this in the territorial army).


 
I wouldn't worry about the fighting part. The recent adventures in Mesopotamia and the Hindu Kush have probably sapped any British government's enthusiasm, not to mention capability, for expeditionary warfare for at least a generation.


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## DownwardDog (Apr 11, 2013)

Pingu said:


> he could practice by spraying a thin film of Wd40 over everything he eats and drinks and living in the box room with an unshielded microwave for a couple of months.


 
And practicing breathlessly silent masturbation while pretending to sleep on top of a Spearfish.


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## Fez909 (Apr 11, 2013)

Also, don't fall into the trap of thinking TA = no chance of war. You said something similar further up thread, but it's not true. You've got a chance of being sent to wherever we bomb next (North Africa?) and you have to go.

No saying, "oh but I don't fancy that war!"


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## kittyP (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> There's a PPE course that looks really interesting. God knows what you can do with that (when you're not oxbridge of course).


 
Unless you want to get in to a trade, the subject you study is not always that relevant.


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> There's a PPE course that looks really interesting. God knows what you can do with that (when you're not oxbridge of course).


What about something like international relations or pure politics? Even non-oxbridge PPE at worst you can become an academic, which is clearly far better than a life of fighting off 1,999 other people for a job in Costas and any degree will help you get a job doing _something_. It's not like a media studies degree or something.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2013)

and even if you get a really shit level its three years off the dole


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## dylanredefined (Apr 11, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Also, don't fall into the trap of thinking TA = no chance of war. You said something similar further up thread, but it's not true. You've got a chance of being sent to wherever we bomb next (North Africa?) and you have to go.
> 
> No saying, "oh but I don't fancy that war!"


 
  That's the intention at the moment its volunteers only and he has missed his chance to go to Afghanistan.
No chance of going to North Korea. Someone got one of the recruits to ask me about Korea as I was old enough to have been there the last time little shit believed him.


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## bi0boy (Apr 11, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> It takes years to get on the scapheap...chillax..


 
According to Billy Bragg you can be on top if it when you're 21.


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## *james* (Apr 11, 2013)

To be honest who is going to employ you for a job based on your track record so far (rightly or wrongly).  Either you need to retrain for something else non-academic / vocational - computers? a trade? etc or start your own business.  What about going into sales or something like that - you can always start at the bottom with that and work your way up.


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2013)

*james* said:


> To be honest who is going to employ you for a job based on your track record so far (rightly or wrongly). Either you need to retrain for something else non-academic / vocational - computers? a trade? etc or start your own business. What about going into sales or something like that - you can always start at the bottom with that and work your way up.


Aye but unless you're a cunt it's hard to do well in sales.


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## CharlieChaplin (Apr 11, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Also, don't fall into the trap of thinking TA = no chance of war. You said something similar further up thread, but it's not true. You've got a chance of being sent to wherever we bomb next (North Africa?) and you have to go.
> 
> No saying, "oh but I don't fancy that war!"


 

I thought you could only be forcibly deployed in the TA if total war broke out?


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I thought you could only be forcibly deployed in the TA if total war broke out?


Because that will never happen....


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## Fez909 (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I thought you could only be forcibly deployed in the TA if total war broke out?


 
My auntie joined the TA to keep fit and they sent her to Iraq.


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I thought you could only be forcibly deployed in the TA if total war broke out?


Just because there isn't a war (or rather an active conflict) somewhere you get sent doesn't mean you won't be sent somewhere dangerous or shit. Also it messes with your benefits every time you do it. If you want to join the Army then join the Army, pointless pussyfooting around in the TA in hopes of not having to fight.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 11, 2013)

I do recall a thread on here a while back about just how much choice you have over what you get sent to do if you're in the TA, and I think the consensus was that while you're very much a volunteer in respect of choosing whether to join the TA or not, once you're in, you don't have a lot of choice in the matter.

And bear in mind the policy at the moment to reduce the full time armed services and increase the TA - which suggests to me that the chances of TA service people being sent to conflicts will increase.

Although I have no personal experience of this.

Going back to the original question, not entirely sure.  Until fairly recently, the number of opportunities for non graduates seems to have been shrinking rapidly _- _a number of organisations seem to have got into the mindset that they must have graduates to do pretty much anything 'white collar', including the kind of admin jobs that 25 years ago you needed a couple of O-levels for.

There are some suggestions that some of the business world is turning away from that, but the number of organisations still recruiting plenty of 'graduate trainees' is still high (and this means that in those organisations, the chances of getting much beyond first level supervisory sort of jobs if you've not come through the graduate training scheme are remote)

I don't wish to be rude, but can you identify what went wrong for you at university?  There seems little point in keeping on going down the same path if it's not for you.  Were there specific circumstances that led to things going badly last time, and if so, will those circumstances apply if you do try again?

While I'm not trying to knock current students or graduates, I'm not convinced that the graduate thing it is all that some organisations think it is.  Quite a few (not all) of the graduates I've worked with seem to have an very high opinion of their own ability, and a lot of strongly held opinions based on very little actual knowledge of how the real world works.

Are you still able to access any careers advice via your university?  Alternatively, the national careers service may be worth a look - many of their services seem to be freely available (in some cases you need to be on benefits.)


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## dylanredefined (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I thought you could only be forcibly deployed in the TA if total war broke out?


               No its changing. So the TA can be called out for anything that's needed whether that is war fighting or helping out with some sort of emergency in the UK. Though the other emergency services hate the army encroaching on their turf you don't need to a lot of training to man a cordon ,or fill sandbags make cups of tea shoot zombies etc. Did become vaguely fashionable before Blair started his wars and needed the TA to fight them. Now back on the board.


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## fuck seals (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> No real work experience (shitty part-time stuff when I was younger). Failed college, scraped into Uni and failed that too.
> 
> It's impossible for me to make something of myself. Nobody wants to hire me. Do I have any real prospects at this age or have I missed the bloody boat already?
> 
> ...


 
when i was 23 i had got kicked out of one uni for failing.  had no job, lord knows how much debt.  went through a depressive phase as well for cpl of years.  looks bleak, but then it always does before life gets good.  i understand where you're coming from.

find something you love doing, and do it.  i found something that fascinated me - to an obsessive level - & i never looked back; last year i earnt 140k doing it.  & i went back and got that degree too 

keep smiling


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## sojourner (Apr 11, 2013)

Spot of nepotism? Have you asked around your family and friends, and their friends? My lass has been on the dole over 6 months and just now got a job with someone in the building I manage. She's a bright capable woman, but no one would touch her with a bargepole - not enough jobs and too many applicants.

For god's sake DON'T join the fucking army.


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## kittyP (Apr 11, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> My auntie joined the TA to keep fit and they sent her to Iraq.


 
Is that true? 

It sounds like a front page story in one of those Real Life/Chat magazines


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## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2013)

dylanredefined said:


> No its changing. So the TA can be called out for anything that's needed whether that is war fighting or helping out with some sort of emergency in the UK. Though the other emergency services hate the army encroaching on their turf you don't need to a lot of training to man a cordon ,or fill sandbags make cups of tea shoot zombies etc. Did become vaguely fashionable before Blair started his wars and needed the TA to fight them. Now back on the board.


Which of course means the possibility of being asked to fight against 'domestic extremists' such as protesters and so on.



sojourner said:


> Spot of nepotism? Have you asked around your family and friends, and their friends? My lass has been on the dole over 6 months and just now got a job with someone in the building I manage. She's a bright capable woman, but no one would touch her with a bargepole - not enough jobs and too many applicants.
> 
> For god's sake DON'T join the fucking army.


Nearly everyone I know who hasn't been to uni who has found a job since 2009 has got it from word of mouth.


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## Fez909 (Apr 11, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Is that true?
> 
> It sounds like a front page story in one of those Real Life/Chat magazines


 
Seriously. I think I've posted about it on here before.

She was a nurse so as soon as war broke out they sent her to Iraq. When she came back she was destroyed. Never seen such a dramatic change in a person. She's still suffering now.


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## kittyP (Apr 11, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Seriously. I think I've posted about it on here before.
> 
> She was a nurse so as soon as war broke out they sent her to Iraq. When she came back she was destroyed. Never seen such a dramatic change in a person. She's still suffering now.


 
Oh shit I am so sorry for your aunt. 

ETA: Fez909 I guess she hadn't been trained/toughened in the way someone in the actual army would have been to prepare for that.


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## Fez909 (Apr 11, 2013)

Here's the proof if you don't believe it.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ar...test_equipment_at_open_day_to_tempt_recruits/

Jackie Ferry in that article.


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## Fez909 (Apr 11, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Oh shit I am so sorry for your aunt.
> 
> ETA: Fez909 I guess she hadn't been trained/toughened in the way someone in the actual army would have been to prepare for that.


 
Not really, no. She'd seen a lot, being a nurse. But not much prepares you for the things she saw, and the living conditions she had to endure as well.


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## silverfish (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys.
> 
> *I only ever wanted to do something for a living that had meaning and brought me a lot of joy. It's hard trying to locate that kind of work (mainly because I'm nto sure it even exists*).
> 
> Appreciate all the feedback though.


 
Even the best jobs in the world get repetitive and dull after a bit 

What about Marine mammal observer Random I know, I'm working with some and they get paid loads to sit in a comfy chair watching the sea for whales and dolphins in the sun in exotic places

Free board and lodgings and seamans tax

Alsorts do it, just need to save up cash for the course, not mega expensive

......I'll probably never make "career advisor"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammal_observer


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## kittyP (Apr 11, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Here's the proof if you don't believe it.
> 
> http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/archive/2005/04/22/The North East Archive/6954604.Soldiers_show_off_latest_equipment_at_open_day_to_tempt_recruits/
> 
> Jackie Ferry in that article.


 
Yeah sorry, I wasn't questioning your personal credibility. It's just a crazy story.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 11, 2013)

silverfish said:


> Even the best jobs in the world get repetitive and dull after a bit
> 
> What about Marine mammal observer Random I know, I'm working with some and they get paid loads to sit in a comfy chair watching the sea for whales and dolphins in the sun in exotic places
> 
> ...


 
WHERE CAN I DO THIS COURSE?


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## kittyP (Apr 11, 2013)

silverfish said:


> Even the best jobs in the world get repetitive and dull after a bit
> 
> What about Marine mammal observer Random I know, I'm working with some and they get paid loads to sit in a comfy chair watching the sea for whales and dolphins in the sun in exotic places
> 
> ...


 
I think I got journalist and fish farmer back from my careers advice questionnaire thingy


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## EastEnder (Apr 11, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> There's a PPE course that looks really interesting. God knows what you can do with that (when you're not oxbridge of course).


With PPE? Teaching, journalism, academia, maybe?

Why not forget about getting a job you like (very few people manage that) and just get something, _anything,_ that'll pay the bills for a while. Then once you're working, do an OU course in something you do like, and use that as a stepping stone into a more fulfilling career. Loads of people, of many different ages, go down that route.


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## equationgirl (Apr 11, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Also, don't fall into the trap of thinking TA = no chance of war. You said something similar further up thread, but it's not true. You've got a chance of being sent to wherever we bomb next (North Africa?) and you have to go.
> 
> No saying, "oh but I don't fancy that war!"


A guy I was at uni with joined the TA. He ended up suspending his studies for 6 months because his unit got sent to Bosnia.


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## dylanredefined (Apr 11, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> A guy I was at uni with joined the TA. He ended up suspending his studies for 6 months because his unit got sent to Bosnia.


 That's because he volunteered to go whatever he claimed.


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## equationgirl (Apr 11, 2013)

dylanredefined said:


> That's because he volunteered to go whatever he claimed.


 
It was a good few years ago, but as best I remember war hadn't broken out when he joined and it was a little bit of a surprise.


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## geminisnake (Apr 11, 2013)

Pat24 said:


> Try to get some work experience by volunteering for a charity. I did that whilst at uni and really helped me get paid work afterwards.


 
I mentioned this to son today and he has been told it doesn't count as job experience unless it's paid, in which case it's obviously not voluntary  Not sure who told him that but I'm guessing his adviser at the JC.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 11, 2013)

geminisnake said:


> I mentioned this to son today and he has been told it doesn't count as job experience unless it's paid, in which case it's obviously not voluntary  Not sure who told him that but I'm guessing his adviser at the JC.


 
Depends.

If an employer is looking for someone with x years' experience in doing whatever, then it might not count for that much.

Many employers however are looking more for skills (e.g. the interview question "give an example of a time you have dealt with X situation") for which an example in voluntary work, education, caring can be relevant.

Obviously, depends on the job, and depends how hidebound the potential employer / interviewer is. 

And in general, many employers will look more positively towards "I have been doing part time voluntary work for the last 6 months while looking for work" than "I have been on the dole for the last 6 months"

That having been said, voluntary organisations tend only to take people on for roles that will require much training if those people can commit to a reasonable amount of time volunteering once they have been trained rather than people they know will bugger off as soon as they get a paid job (or get shoved into one / workfare by the job centre)

which tends to limit those roles to people who are reasonably financially independent - 

although from the organisation's point of view, they have to invest time training people and they expect some sort of return on this...


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## twentythreedom (Apr 12, 2013)

Go travelling and do some worthy volunteering along the way


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## RaverDrew (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm stuck in a very similar position myself, but I'm almost 31  

I'm really at a loss of what to do, maybe uni ? There are just as many people though who are encouraging me to do it, as there are telling me I must me mad, not to do it, and not get myself into more debt. 

I feel like I'm really wasting time, and it's absolutely crushing not to be even getting any temp or min wage jobs atm.

Being kicked off the dole too there is extra pressure, and at the moment it's just manifesting itself as pure stress, something needs to change...


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## Casually Red (Apr 12, 2013)

i like the sound of that whale watching thing but cant find enough info on a course


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## RaverDrew (Apr 12, 2013)

http://jncc.defra.gov.uk/page-4703

I seriously like the idea of it too


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## Firky (Apr 12, 2013)

Uni is fucking great; I hated it at the time but it was easily the best three years of my life. If I could do it again I would but I'd do it properly by going to a totally different city and experiencing something new.

Fuck the debt. They can't come after you when you're dead.


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## xslavearcx (Apr 12, 2013)

Think unis gotta be the way - if one is on the dole during these particular tough economic times, all one is doing is adding more gaps into ones history, whereas with uni you are at least accounting for those gaps and further getting qualifications that are at the very least a neccesary condition to get any above minimum wage job.

Agree with Flirky re debt too, if you can't pay, you can't pay. My philosophy regarding debt has always been if they can't send me to jail for it then im not paying back. Obviously that means im fucked for mortgages and shit, but hey house prices are too high for any of us to afford to buy one. Think my philosophy has ran its course though now, last debt i managed to get was from wonga who very kindly gave me 400 pounds i think it was. It was sad that i lost my bank card which mean't i had to get a new one which meant they could not raid my bank account. My heart bleeds...


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## silverfish (Apr 12, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> i like the sound of that whale watching thing but cant find enough info on a course


 

http://www.atlasservicesgroup.com/seismic-hydrographic/seismic-jobs/marine-mammal-observer/

http://www.epi.co.uk/services-marine-qc.html?gclid=CIvXvI3mwrYCFWp8cAodZ0kAgQ

http://www.mmo-association.org/

http://www.osc.co.uk/marine_mammal_observation.php

http://www.joinrps.com/showJob.aspx?j=2244&s=av

http://www.gardlinemarinesciences.com/services/service/29/

http://www.oceanwatchmmos.com/about-mmos.php

http://www.larimarenvironments.com/page2.htm


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## Casually Red (Apr 12, 2013)

thanks for that


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## xslavearcx (Apr 12, 2013)

More reasons why going to uni is better than being on the dole imo

- Universal Credit coming in soon!
- You go in one fell swoop from being a member of the underserving poor to the deserving poor ( the difference people react to me when i say im a student than when i say im unemployed is remarkable)
- No more signing on for a few years
- Better money on student loans (ive always felt richer on student loans than dole money - cause i fucked up at uni i am a part time student at the moment on the dole which means ive got all the signing on crap of the dole, but this october can go back to being a full time student and can get student loans again - can't wait)
- Access to hardship funds from the uni (and crisis loans which take about half an hour to get rather than the rigamorole from the dole)
- Part time work adds to ones income when a student - whereas part time work on the dole makes you £5 per week better off.

yeah uni is the way forward.


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## Cheesypoof (Apr 12, 2013)

don't worry about anything. theres always tomorrow


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## CharlieChaplin (Apr 12, 2013)

University is £27,000 on top of the amount of debt I have already massed.

Open University offers courses for a reduction of £15,000.


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## Pingu (Apr 12, 2013)

ok time for a quick reality check

no one is going to change your life for you. in order for things to change you are going to have to get off your arse and do something. be that enlisting, going to uni or learning how to flip burgers. decide what you would like to do and then take steps towards achieving it. urban is great to use as a sounding board but at some point you will have to actually do something


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## CharlieChaplin (Apr 12, 2013)

Pingu said:


> ok time for a quick reality check
> 
> no one is going to change your life for you. in order for things to change you are going to have to get off your arse and do something. be that enlisting, going to uni or learning how to flip burgers. decide what you would like to do and then take steps towards achieving it. urban is great to use as a sounding board but at some point you will have to actually do something


 
Yes I know mate, that's why I'm asking for advice from people who have been in a similar position.


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## Pat24 (Apr 12, 2013)

geminisnake said:


> I mentioned this to son today and he has been told it doesn't count as job experience unless it's paid, in which case it's obviously not voluntary  Not sure who told him that but I'm guessing his adviser at the JC.


I suppose things have changed now, back in 2007 when I graduated I was so glad I had "some" work experience, albeit in a charity organization as a volunteer. It did open some doors for me, as my CV looked better as I was involved in quite a few things whilst juggling my studies.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> What about something like international relations or pure politics? Even non-oxbridge PPE at worst you can become an academic, which is clearly far better than a life of fighting off 1,999 other people for a job in Costas and any degree will help you get a job doing _something_. It's not like a media studies degree or something.


 


Once you've found a way to fund a Masters course and a PhD (which will only take you with a 2:1 most probably) then you might, possibly, be able to get a job as an academic. Even then it really wouldn't be something to count on and would initially be on crap short term contracts.


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## geminisnake (Apr 12, 2013)

Casually Red said:


> i like the sound of that whale watching thing but cant find enough info on a course


Where are you? Pm me if you like. Hubby does this voluntarily. You don't HAVE to go on a course. Hubby does have ecology qualifications though. He spotted an orca off the NE scottish coast in December


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## xslavearcx (Apr 12, 2013)

OU courses are good. I'd recommend you do them part time though (which is what they recommend too). The workload for them is much higher than traditional unis - in that case you (that is doing OU part time) could work as well. I wouldn't recommend doing it whilst on the dole with the way things are going....


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## ddraig (Apr 12, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I just chose the name to be funny. I'm not a fascist in any way.
> <snip>


your name is not funny, sort it out


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## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> University is £_27,000_ on top of the amount of debt I have already massed.
> 
> Open University offers courses for a reduction of £15,000.


 

vince cable deserves a spike through the head.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 12, 2013)

Pat24 said:
			
		

> Try to get some work experience by volunteering for a charity. I did that whilst at uni and really helped me get paid work afterwards.



They threatened to take jobseekers allowance off me when I did that many years ago.


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## 1%er (Apr 12, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Yes I know mate, that's why I'm asking for advice from people who have been in a similar position.


Your young, why not just pack a bag and go somewhere else. If you speak English you can get good jobs in many parts of the developing world just speaking English to people. I see loads of young English people doing it and they seem to manage for years.


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## RaverDrew (Apr 12, 2013)

1%er said:


> Your young, why not just pack a bag and go somewhere else. If you speak English you can get good jobs in many parts of the developing world just speaking English to people. I see loads of young English people doing it and they seem to manage for years.



How do you manage to do this when you have fuck all money to begin with ?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2013)

1%er said:


> Your young, why not just pack a bag and go somewhere else. If you speak English you can get good jobs in many parts of the developing world just speaking English to people. I see loads of young English people doing it and they seem to manage for years.


 
That's fine if you've got money for transport to wherever you decide to go and some to tide you over while you get sorted out and paid (and for most people enough to get you home again if it doesn't work out). Which is going to be quite a lot.


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## 1%er (Apr 12, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> How do you manage to do this when you have fuck all money to begin with ?


Well I know how some people do it, they max out their cards and hope they don't have to go back to the UK for a few years  , other apply for jobs via the internet. Other stay with friends until they can sort themselves out.

Finding problems or reasons why not to do something is easy, it is sometimes harder to find a way to do what you want.

Thousands of young people do it every year so it is possible.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2013)

1%er said:


> Well I know how some people do it, they max out their cards and hope they don't have to go back to the UK for a few years  , other apply for jobs via the internet. Other stay with friends until they can sort themselves out.
> 
> Finding problems or reasons why not to do something is easy, it is sometimes harder to find a way to do what you want.
> 
> Thousands of young people do it every year so it is possible.


 
I'm guessing that of those thousands most are from middle class backgrounds, probably already have degrees and similar qualifications, access to credit (not everyone can max out their credit cards) and probably most importantly know that if it really came down to it their parents would send them the money to get them home.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 12, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> How do you manage to do this when you have fuck all money to begin with ?


 
there are loads of ways of doing it. You just have to really want to and you find a way.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> there are loads of ways of doing it. You just have to really want to and you find a way.


 
Are you on the wind-up here?


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 12, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'm guessing that of those thousands most are from middle class backgrounds, probably already have degrees and similar qualifications, access to credit (not everyone can max out their credit cards) and probably most importantly know that if it really came down to it their parents would send them the money to get them home.


 
I do think that is typically the case, but I can think of one or two people who have left to work abroad with no qualifications / no money and are doing alright now.

One of them is a pretty close friend. He had a shit life here. His dad was a prick. He was pretty messed up, did a load of drugs, no money etc. I always thought he would be one of the first one of my friends to die (as horrible as that sounds).

He left with no money, wandered around Europe for a bit, and is currently living in Milan with a beautiful Italian woman teaching English. I can't quite figure out how he got that job but he makes a living from it and is living a better life there than here. He wasn't middle class by any means. I can think of one or two other similar stories. 

But by and large I do think it is mostly like you say.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 12, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Are you on the wind-up here?


 
No! See below


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 12, 2013)

Once you get out to Europe there is work. I think the friend I mentioned above did quite a bit of seasonal work, like grape picking, and lived rough or in hostels before he ended up in Milan. I don't think his story is typical but I do think it shows it can be done, it just depends what you are prepared to put up with


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## 1%er (Apr 12, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'm guessing that of those thousands most are from middle class backgrounds, probably already have degrees and similar qualifications, access to credit (not everyone can max out their credit cards) and probably most importantly know that if it really came down to it their parents would send them the money to get them home.


You may be right, but I can tell you for sure that I have met loads of working class people.  Last weekend I met a couple of young guys from Nottingham (both left the UK because they had no work and were skint) who teach English over the Internet and face to face, some others do copy writing, some translating. They could not live in the UK on that money but live in the tropics where what they earn is enough to live on.

It is easy to say "I can't do that", but what have you got to loose if you have no job and no money in the UK.


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## RaverDrew (Apr 12, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> He left with no money, wandered around Europe for a bit, and is currently living in Milan with a beautiful Italian woman teaching English. I can't quite figure out how he got that job but he makes a living from it and is living a better life there than here. He wasn't middle class by any means. I can think of one or two other similar stories.


 
Yet for every success story like this, there are a hundred Stanley Edwards'


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2013)

1%er said:


> You may be right, but I can tell you for sure that I have met loads of working class people. Last weekend I met a couple of young guys from Nottingham (both left the UK because they had no work and were skint) who teach English over the Internet and face to face, some others do copy writing, some translating. They could not live in the UK on that money but live in the tropics where what they earn is enough to live on.
> 
> It is easy to say "I can't do that", but what have you got to loose if you have no job and no money in the UK.


 
'What have you got to lose' is easy to say as well when it's not you you're talking about. And 'if you want it you'll find a way' is facile and borderline insulting tbh.

Fine, if the idea is to go abroad and get some sort of job, look into what that might involve. How much did these guys take with them? Did they have qualifications? You're both right to say it's not impossible and that sort of info might be helpful.

'Just go' ignores that there's plenty of ways to get into very serious trouble indeed if you're miles from home with no support network or money, possibly in a country where you don't speak the language.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 12, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 'What have you got to lose' is easy to say as well when it's not you you're talking about. And 'if you want it you'll find a way' is facile and borderline insulting tbh.
> 
> Fine, if the idea is to go abroad and get some sort of job, look into what that might involve. How much did these guys take with them? Did they have qualifications? You're both right to say it's not impossible and that sort of info might be helpful.
> 
> 'Just go' ignores that there's plenty of ways to get into very serious trouble indeed if you're miles from home with no support network or money, possibly in a country where you don't speak the language.


 
No, I agree, you are absolutely right. To do it does take quite a bit of planning. The story I mention is an exception. I am still not sure how he did it. 

I know other people who have gone abroad and they really are much more middle class. Masters at University, flights paid for, etc etc.

In regards to practical advice for working abroad, this book is pretty good and has a lot of advice on where to find work in each country, websites to look at, stuff about visas and so on.


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## 1%er (Apr 12, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 'What have you got to lose' is easy to say as well when it's not you you're talking about. And 'if you want it you'll find a way' is facile and borderline insulting tbh.
> 
> Fine, if the idea is to go abroad and get some sort of job, look into what that might involve. How much did these guys take with them? Did they have qualifications? You're both right to say it's not impossible and that sort of info might be helpful.
> 
> 'Just go' ignores that there's plenty of ways to get into very serious trouble indeed if you're miles from home with no support network or money, possibly in a country where you don't speak the language.


I don't mean to insult anyone, I've lived abroad for almost all my adult life and in that time I have met hundereds of people who have made it work for them, I am sure there are 1000's for whom it hasn't worked.

The fact of the matter is, if you have no job or prospect of a job in the UK and you are young and healthy, you have very little to loose and loads of people do find a way to make it work.

The people I find have problems are the 50 year olds and above with lots of money who think they can "buy" love and who wind up loosing everything after a couple of bad investments/relationships. In the last 5 years I can think of about 30 people who have come to the NE of Brazil and the South of Venezuela who have lost well over 2 millions $ making bad choices.

I'm not saying it is easy, I am saying it is an option.


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## stuff_it (Apr 12, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> Once you get out to Europe there is work. I think the friend I mentioned above did quite a bit of seasonal work, like grape picking, and lived rough or in hostels before he ended up in Milan. I don't think his story is typical but I do think it shows it can be done, it just depends what you are prepared to put up with


I know several people in Portugal, supposedly one of the poorest countries. Many of them have managed to find work - to be fair not the most stimulating work. One works on a farm with animals for example. Better than the nowt you get here though.


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## 1%er (Apr 12, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> No, I agree, you are absolutely right. To do it does take quite a bit of planning. The story I mention is an exception. I am still not sure how he did it.
> 
> I know other people who have gone abroad and they really are much more middle class. Masters at University, flights paid for, etc etc.
> 
> In regards to practical advice for working abroad, this book is pretty good and has a lot of advice on where to find work in each country, websites to look at, stuff about visas and so on.


I see little point in staying in Europe as the cost of living is so high.
You are right, in the first instance planning is very important, once you find your niche it becomes easier and you become more confident and move around more and more until you find the place that suits you and your lifestyle. 

It takes less them 3 months to get the basics of Spanish or Portuguese, so you can learn as you plan. Link up with someone via the internet who wants to learn English and at the same time you can be learning their language.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 12, 2013)

*james* said:


> To be honest who is going to employ you for a job based on your track record so far (rightly or wrongly). Either you need to retrain for something else non-academic / vocational - computers? a trade? etc or start your own business. What about going into sales or something like that - you can always start at the bottom with that and work your way up.


 
Although in sales, doing so means ruthlessly back-stabbing those above you, and ruthlessly shitting on those below you, so you have to be a "special" sort of character to do well.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 12, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Although in sales, doing so means ruthlessly back-stabbing those above you, and ruthlessly shitting on those below you, so you have to be a "special" sort of character to do well.


 
Sales is fucking horrible. I worked in a sales office a year or two ago (I was an assistant I didn't have to sell) and the entire atmosphere was rotten. Glad I left. Best avoided unless you are called to it imo.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 12, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Oh shit I am so sorry for your aunt.
> 
> I guess she hadn't been trained/toughened in the way someone in the actual army would have been to prepare for that.


 
Even people who've been trained/toughened still get damaged, kitty. It's to the lasting shame of the Ministry of Defence that they've always saved money by not doing more than giving soldiers more than a general debrief after action. Pyschiatric and psychological help is still at "joke" levels in most of the UK, although there are more specialist centres (often charity or private, not military) now, lending a hand.


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## ffsear (Apr 12, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> No real work experience (shitty part-time stuff when I was younger). Failed college, scraped into Uni and failed that too.
> 
> It's impossible for me to make something of myself. Nobody wants to hire me. Do I have any real prospects at this age or have I missed the bloody boat already?
> 
> ...


 

Learn to trade forex.  I did this 5 years ago and now work for myself.


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## RaverDrew (Apr 12, 2013)

Sell every possession you own, and put every penny you have into bitcoins.


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## kabbes (Apr 12, 2013)

I do have some sympathy for the advice to go abroad. The UK is proper fucked and is likely to remain so for at least five years, and maybe four times as long as that. If you are 23 now, you may well be in your 30s before it sorts itself out.  Meanwhile, some countries are enjoying double-digits growth and are crying out for those with a developed-world education and English as a first language.

Doesn't mean it is easy though, or you can "just do it".


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## kabbes (Apr 12, 2013)

Meanwhile, if you plan to stay in the UK, you may have to put a hold on the idea of going straight into a wonderfully fulfilling and meaningful career. That's what everybody wants, and what have you done to deserve it over them?  You may have to knuckle down in the shit with the rest of us until you build up some proper skills.


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## rover07 (Apr 12, 2013)

Have you thought about being a street-artist in Spain?

It's very well paid and all you need is a bottle of wine, lino and a marker pen.


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## Firky (Apr 12, 2013)

Cheesypoof said:


> don't worry about anything. theres always tomorrow


 
That's a load adolescent nonsense. You need to worry. Worry and stress is a motivator, that is why it exists. If you keep procrastinating and burying your head in apathy you will never achieve any ambition or desire.

Those who say they dont' care and tomorrow is another day are the ones who are like a duck. Calm on the surface. Turmoil underneath.


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## Firky (Apr 12, 2013)

rover07 said:


> Have you thought about being a street-artist in Spain?
> 
> It's very well paid and all you need is a bottle of wine, lino and a marker pen.


 
LOL! LETS SNEAR AT OTHER PEOPLE'S LIFE CHOICES. LOL!


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## 1%er (Apr 12, 2013)

I just called a couple of friends who I know are teaching English in NE Brazil, they are 26 and 23. They said they are earning B$45 an hour for one to one lessons, B$20 an hour for internet lessons, most Brazilians don't earn B$45 a day. They say they are only working a few days a week and live well. They don't have any qualification in teaching and have never been asked if they do.

It is cheap to live, low rent, very low bills because you don't need heating and it is cheaper to eat out than go and buy the food and prepare it yourself. There is a very fast growing middle-class who have money to spend and want to travel, so learning English is important to them as most want to visit the USA.

Apparently teaching English is a real boom industry here at the moment because of the world cup, the two people above have just bid to teach the police militar in Manaus English  , loads of Federal money going to host cities to teach English.


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## Cheesypoof (Apr 12, 2013)

Firky said:


> Those who say they dont' care and tomorrow is another day are the ones who are like a duck. Calm on the surface. Turmoil underneath.


 
easy Firks.


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## Firky (Apr 12, 2013)

Cheesypoof said:


> easy Firks.


 
It's true though, I used to tell myself all that stuff and hide my head in a hazy bubble of booze and mary jane... then I realised that you have to use stress and worry as a force for positive change and not something to drown out with drugs, booze and apathy 

Tomorrow's another day then you wake up at 30 wondering where yesterday went


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## Cheesypoof (Apr 12, 2013)

Firky said:


> It's true though, I used to tell myself all that stuff and hide my head in a hazy bubble of booze and mary jane... then I realised that you have to use stress and worry as a force for positive change and not something to drown out with drugs, booze and apathy
> 
> Tomorrow's another day then you wake up at 30 wondering where yesterday went


 
I think you read a lot into what was a simple post.


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## kittyP (Apr 12, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> Even people who've been trained/toughened still get damaged, kitty. It's to the lasting shame of the Ministry of Defence that they've always saved money by not doing more than giving soldiers more than a general debrief after action. Pyschiatric and psychological help is still at "joke" levels in most of the UK, although there are more specialist centres (often charity or private, not military) now, lending a hand.



Oh I am sure. 
I was just thinking it might be worse if you're in the TA and really not expecting to go in to an active war zone.


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## Firky (Apr 12, 2013)

Cheesypoof said:


> I think you read a lot into what was a simple post.


 
It was a simple post


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## Cheesypoof (Apr 12, 2013)

Firky said:


> It was a simple post


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## xslavearcx (Apr 12, 2013)

Don't get on your bike - get on your aeroplane


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## xslavearcx (Apr 12, 2013)

Firky said:


> Tomorrow's another day then you wake up at 30 wondering where yesterday went


 
Shorter of breath and one step closer to death!

FUCK now im going to have that fucking pink floyd song in my head for days now


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## EastEnder (Apr 12, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> I do think that is typically the case, but I can think of one or two people who have left to work abroad with no qualifications / no money and are doing alright now.
> 
> One of them is a pretty close friend. He had a shit life here. His dad was a prick. He was pretty messed up, did a load of drugs, no money etc. I always thought he would be one of the first one of my friends to die (as horrible as that sounds).
> 
> ...


The grass is always greener. If someone's adventurous enough to throw caution to the wind, max out their every conceivable means of getting cash & bugger off abroad for a better life, well kudos to them, I wish them all the best. But I wouldn't advocate it - I hate to be all cynical & curmudgeonly, but how many people try it, don't find the foreign nirvana they were hoping for, and have to head back home - possibly in even more debt than they left with. Stories like your mate's stand out specifically because of their rarity, that should tell you something. Don’t get me wrong, if I could do it I would - ditch the crappy here & now for the fit Italian bird & sunny life abroad - but how realistic is such an outcome? It's like if a mate says they want to jack in the rat race & form a band - well, good on them, hope they're the next "big thing", but you kinda know, on the balance of probability, it's not the most likely outcome...


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## 1%er (Apr 12, 2013)

EastEnder said:


> The grass is always greener. If someone's adventurous enough to throw caution to the wind, max out their every conceivable means of getting cash & bugger off abroad for a better life, well kudos to them, I wish them all the best. But I wouldn't advocate it - I hate to be all cynical & curmudgeonly, but how many people try it, don't find the foreign nirvana they were hoping for, and have to head back home - possibly in even more debt than they left with. Stories like your mate's stand out specifically because of their rarity, that should tell you something. Don’t get me wrong, if I could do it I would - ditch the crappy here & now for the fit Italian bird & sunny life abroad - but how realistic is such an outcome? It's like if a mate says they want to jack in the rat race & form a band - well, good on them, hope they're the next "big thing", but you kinda know, on the balance of probability, it's not the most likely outcome...


I think you are right about people who are "adventurous enough throw caution to the wind, max out their every conceivable means of getting cash & bugger off abroad for a better life".

But that isn't the way to do it if you are serious. As others have said, it is something you need to plan. Going abroad for work has never been so easy and if you plan it properly it should workout fine in most cases. It doesn't have be a lifetime commitment. One of the biggest problems I see is that people start off in a holiday mood, when they should be in a business/work frame of mind until they have sorted out a place to live and a job. There is plenty of time for partying after you are settled.

Just speaking English gives you a massive head-start in many parts of the world for a job.


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## grit (Apr 13, 2013)

1%er said:


> I think you are right about people who are "adventurous enough throw caution to the wind, max out their every conceivable means of getting cash & bugger off abroad for a better life".
> 
> But that isn't the way to do it if you are serious. As others have said, it is something you need to plan. Going abroad for work has never been so easy and if you plan it properly it should workout fine in most cases. It doesn't have be a lifetime commitment. One of the biggest problems I see is that people start off in a holiday mood, when they should be in a business/work frame of mind until they have sorted out a place to live and a job. There is plenty of time for partying after you are settled.
> 
> Just speaking English gives you a massive head-start in many parts of the world for a job.


 
I've done it 3 times in the past ten years (moving wholesale to another country) and its remarkably easy to do with a small bit of planning.


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## Part 2 (Apr 13, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I only ever wanted to do something for a living that had meaning and brought me a lot of joy. It's hard trying to locate that kind of work (mainly because I'm nto sure it even exists).


 
There are loads of jobs like this and most begin with voluntary work. My feeling is that if you don't know what you want yourself, go and do something to benefit others.

I really think this in turn will make you feel better about things.


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