# A culture of gift giving at work: from workers to managers - how common is this?



## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

So at my work, which is a £13,900 a year job which really should be a lot better remunerated for the stress and responsibility, there seems to be a culture of gift giving from employees to managers.

At the end of a four week training session managers, who are on 20k+, request and expect expensive presents from trainees. So much so that one manager contacted several trainees in my group telling them what brand of luxury gin our assigned manager liked.

Unfortunately several of my colleagues fell for it, bought a £40 bottle of gin and expected everyone else in the group to cough up to pay for it. Needless to say I made it clear in no uncertain terms that I would not be doing that.

Later on, when the manager got the bottle he talked about another, cheaper gift which he received from another member of the group as if it was a joke gift designed to make him think that there would be no gin. It was not a joke gift, the girl was just skint because they pay us fuck all. He also went on about other groups he had trained and talked about how some had given him good gifts but others hadn't.

This same idiot berates people on 13,900 shopping at Wilkinsons and not John Lewis. The training is shit as well, why were people willing to give some overpaid twat in a bullshit job luxury booze for doing his job (badly)?

I realise that this is a bit self indulgent, I just needed somewhere to vent. Has anyone experienced anything similar at work before?


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

Wtf?

No.  Just no.

Edit: The closest to this I would expect is that at the end of the training the manager takes everyone out for a meal and possible piss-up on the company coin, or partially on the company coin.  It's more expected at my place that if the manager is out with the grunt the manager buys the lion's share of the drinks.


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## weepiper (Jun 13, 2014)

Uh, no. Our manager bought _us _a bottle of whisky and locked the doors on Christmas Eve so we could all drink it.


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## moon (Jun 13, 2014)

What are you paid 13k to do?
I don't mean to be funny but 20 years ago school leavers in london were earning that amount doing basic office jobs..


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## Pickman's model (Jun 13, 2014)

it's more usually managers to the rest of us, in the form of a tin of quality street now and then in the tea room.


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## marty21 (Jun 13, 2014)

Bullying people to get presents ? That is fucked up.


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## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

moon said:


> What are you paid 13k to do?
> I don't mean to be funny but 20 years ago school leavers in london were earning that amount doing basic office jobs..



It's a call centre for a bank


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It's a call centre for a bank


 
From what I know of such things, these are a special breed of cunt - are Amazon not hiring? 

<jobs going at my place if you have software engineering skills>


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## tufty79 (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It's a call centre for a bank


sympathies 

i've never heard of your work's bizarre managergift culture anywhere before - it's both odd and shit.


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## MrSki (Jun 13, 2014)

Wanker. Fill an old bottle of malt whiskey with piss & give him that.


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## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> So at my work, which is a £13,900 a year job which really should be a lot better remunerated for the stress and responsibility, there seems to be a culture of gift giving from employees to managers.
> 
> At the end of a four week training session managers, who are on 20k+, request and expect expensive presents from trainees. So much so that one manager contacted several trainees in my group telling them what brand of luxury gin our assigned manager liked.
> 
> ...


It's not self-indulgent at all, absolutely not. Please don't think it is.

I really do not like the sound of this at all. Gifts are freely given not demanded and it's appallingly rude at best. At worst it sounds like some form of bullying or extortion from lower paid staff. It's also incredibly mean to ridicule someone for giving a gift, regardless of the value.

I would be seriously tempted to have a word with your union person, if you have one, or your line manager. This behaviour really isn't on.


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## moon (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It's a call centre for a bank


sucks.. you should demand they pay you a living wage and shove the luxury gin up...blah blah

Seriously though.. I once worked somewhere where they paid junior staff below the companies own banding guidelines.. had a few meetings with the managers and it resulted in everyone being given a pay rise.
I'm not saying this will work but its worth a try


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## MrSki (Jun 13, 2014)

Next he will be asking staff for sexual favours.


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## weepiper (Jun 13, 2014)

moon said:


> What are you paid 13k to do?
> I don't mean to be funny but 20 years ago school leavers in london were earning that amount doing basic office jobs..


I don't mean to be funny, but most retail, childcare or care type jobs pay that kind of wage and that's all that's available to a lot of people.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 13, 2014)

I'm a manager, my staff recently gifted me a nice red lighter.

It said in big white letters: GO FUCK YOURSELF


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## moon (Jun 13, 2014)

weepiper said:


> I don't mean to be funny, but most retail, childcare or care type jobs pay that kind of wage and that's all that's available to a lot of people.


Yep and it sucks..


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

moon said:


> I don't mean to be funny but 20 years ago school leavers in london were earning that amount doing basic office jobs..


 
Must have been a hell of a London weighting 20 years ago as 'basic office jobs' weren't getting anything like that in my neck of the woods back then.  Maybe now they are, just about.


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## maomao (Jun 13, 2014)

That is fucked up and you should make clear you are not joining in with it.

I was a taxi controller for a long time and there was always a culture of drivers giving the controller presents at Christmas and while it was never said it was obviously in the hope of getting in their good books and trying to get better work. I always made it clear that I didn't want gifts like that and when they did give them anyway I always handed them over to the telephonists in front of the driver, being as polite as I could while making it clear that I ran a straight circuit.

Myself, I could never bring myself to buy lunch for my managers even though I liked to buy lunch for the office every couple of months or so (usually Chinese takeaway for 5 or 6 people, nothing special). I always used to pick a day when my manager was off so I wouldn't be put in that position. I can't abide arselicking whether it's my arse or my tongue.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2014)

my response would be thus


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## marty21 (Jun 13, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I'm a manager, my staff recently gifted me a nice red lighter.
> 
> It said in big white letters: GO FUCK YOURSELF


Were they very restrained that day?


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## 5t3IIa (Jun 13, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I'm a manager, my staff recently gifted me a nice red lighter.
> 
> It said in big white letters: GO FUCK YOURSELF



GIVE THESE LIKES TO ME


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

The sheer level of cuntiness makes me suspect it is an American bank.

There is a kind of nascent American hyper-capitalist culture where the rich expect to be given alms by the poor <beyond the usual capitalist machinations>, and maybe this is a lower-management offshoot of that expectation.


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## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> I would be seriously tempted to have a word with your union person, if you have one, or your line manager. This behaviour really isn't on.



I don't think that my line manager would be any good on this but I will be talking to the union about it


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## moon (Jun 13, 2014)

8ball said:


> Must have been a hell of a London weighting 20 years ago as 'basic office jobs' weren't getting anything like that in my neck of the woods back then.  Maybe now they are, just about.


I think they were mostly office jobs in well paid industries such as banking, petroleum, the media etc etc
Also  there was less technology then, so lots of paper work and fewer people going for each job..


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## marty21 (Jun 13, 2014)

8ball said:


> Must have been a hell of a London weighting 20 years ago as 'basic office jobs' weren't getting anything like that in my neck of the woods back then.  Maybe now they are, just about.


I was working for a Local Authority 20 years ago in London, on about 16k for a bog standard housing benefit job


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

marty21 said:


> I was working for a Local Authority 20 years ago in London, on about 16k for a bog standard housing benefit job


 
Fuckin 'ell - I should have moved down there...


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## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2014)

course the other thing his given how he's able to compare gifts and disparage some etc suggests he'll be remembering who didn't chip in and storing that resentment up. Sounds like the sort who would. Load of bollocks.


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## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

moon said:


> What are you paid 13k to do?
> I don't mean to be funny but 20 years ago school leavers in london were earning that amount doing basic office jobs..



Funnily enough yesterday a visiting 'celebrity' (that is what they call people high up in the bank, seriously) told us that we were well paid.


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## moochedit (Jun 13, 2014)

we do have people organising the odd whip round for staff when they are getting married/leaving/it's their 30th birthday/etc etc but i've never had a manager do it for another manager that i can remember
and i don't think i've ever been asked for more than a quid.


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## moon (Jun 13, 2014)

which bank is this?


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## el-ahrairah (Jun 13, 2014)

yeah, i'm earning less now that i did 10 years ago at entry level.  housing sector wages in london have depressed that much!


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## smmudge (Jun 13, 2014)

From one call-centre worker to another...just, no! You stick a pound in the whip round and sign their card when it's their birthday (same as everyone else then). And they buy you a chocolate egg at easter, and some chocolates to share at xmas.


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## sheothebudworths (Jun 13, 2014)

My job (school catering) was taken back in house (so I'm now working for the local council) at the beginning of April and our wages increased from minimum wage to the living wage.
Obviously that's a good thing but, just for a bit of a reality check  , my new payslips inform me that I'd still only be earning £14,759.04 if I was full time.

ETA - benefits are that we now get sick pay and a better pension etc, so not quite so simple as sticking up numbers but - yep, _low wages are low_ and it's very usual now - sorta thing.


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## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I don't think that my line manager would be any good on this but I will be talking to the union about it


Good call - this needs to be put to a stop, it's really not on.


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## trabuquera (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> At the end of a four week training session managers, who are on 20k+, request and expect expensive presents from trainees. So much so that one manager contacted several trainees in my group telling them what brand of luxury gin our assigned manager liked.
> 
> Unfortunately several of my colleagues fell for it, bought a £40 bottle of gin and expected everyone else in the group to cough up to pay for it. Needless to say I made it clear in no uncertain terms that I would not be doing that.
> 
> ...



Talk to the union

Carry on refusing to buckle to this extortionary nonsense

And never, ever go into a room (or training session) with this individual again unless you've got a recording device somewhere on your person, recording him. 

It might sound just like ordinary office politics / bum kissing on steroids, but I am pretty sure this sort of extortion is illegal. Mind you,hearing about the pay scale and the pressure tactics explains a lot about how the banking crisis happened ... just hoover up every possible penny and remit it upwards to the 1%.  

Just one final thought - and it really doesn't sound like it from rest of the post - is it even remotely possible that the even bigger bosses, try to incite the manager-level people to try this nonsense on with their "teams", as a way of proving themselves as managers? i.e. "see if you can get the minions to do X or Y, Manager Miggins, that way we'll know how good you are at motivating people?" because there's all sorts of scenarios where managers or people doing MBAs are given deliberately impossible workloads, or undoable tasks, just to see how they respond to it. Some sort of a test of character apparently. But I have to say it sounds more like a small clique of bullies running rampant without supervision from above, than a deliberate bank-wide policy.


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## marty21 (Jun 13, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> yeah, i'm earning less now that i did 10 years ago at entry level.  housing sector wages in london have depressed that much!


So am I  I was a deputy manager then though, getting weekly bottles of gin


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## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

I cannot tell you all what a relief it is to hear how I've felt about this situation is normal, judging by the responses and attitudes of all my one of my co-workers I feel like I've been in some sort of parallel universe for the past 6 hours. Thanks for the responses.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 13, 2014)

my response (to the situation not the poster) is along the lines of "gettaefuck" (there are times when scots is more expressive.)


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 13, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Just one final thought - and it really doesn't sound like it from rest of the post - is it even remotely possible that the even bigger bosses, try to incite the manager-level people to try this nonsense on with their "teams", as a way of proving themselves as managers? i.e. "see if you can get the minions to do X or Y, Manager Miggins, that way we'll know how good you are at motivating people?" because there's all sorts of scenarios where managers or people doing MBAs are given deliberately impossible workloads, or undoable tasks, just to see how they respond to it. Some sort of a test of character apparently. But I have to say it sounds more like a small clique of bullies running rampant without supervision from above, than a deliberate bank-wide policy.



Doesn't matter who tells you to do something, it's up to you if you do it or not. Whether this bloke is doing this for his own amusement or someone else's amusement makes no difference to how much of a cunt he is.


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## emanymton (Jun 13, 2014)

moochedit said:


> we do have people organising the odd whip round for staff when they are getting married/leaving/it's their 30th birthday/etc etc but i've never had a manager do it for another manager that i can remember
> and i don't think i've ever been asked for more than a quid.


This, and we have a tradition of you brining in in food for everyone on your team when it is your birthday. But that's it.

This pace sounds fucking awful.


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## Bob_the_lost (Jun 13, 2014)

That wouldn't happen at any of the places i've worked and i echo the common theme which is that Managers typically buy the first round at the bar (or several first rounds) and are the ones to give gifts if any gifts are to be given.


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## Poot (Jun 13, 2014)

Funny how this kind of thing can seem normal if you are exposed to it daily.

Please allow Urban to tell you IT ISN'T! 

Fuck that shit, you owe them nothing.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 13, 2014)

Bob_the_lost said:


> That wouldn't happen at any of the places i've worked and i echo the common theme which is that Managers typically buy the first round at the bar (or several first rounds) and are the ones to give gifts if any gifts are to be given.




if anything the employer should be giving manager a small pot to buy a small gift or a round at chrimbo.


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## xenon (Jun 13, 2014)

What an absolute wanker, (the manager obv.) 





moon said:


> What are you paid 13k to do?
> I don't mean to be funny but 20 years ago school leavers in london were earning that amount doing basic office jobs..



I dunno whereJ Ed lives but you need to wake up granddad. Look at some job ads.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2014)

In any reputable company managers getting gifts from staff at all is not approved of, if only because of the bribery/favouritism potential - but it's also generally recognised that even in the most innocent cases people may feel obliged by the power differential. And the obvious fact that they get paid more anyway.

I may have worked in some crap places but institutional corruption like that wasn't one of the problems they had. If anything the biggest wankers liked to splash the cash (which is another expression of dominance in itself but not financially draining to the targets at least).


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## maomao (Jun 13, 2014)

Is a change of career possible J Ed ? Sounds like a really unhealthy atmosphere to work in.


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## sheothebudworths (Jun 13, 2014)

xenon said:


> What an absolute wanker, (the manager obv.)
> 
> I dunno whereJ Ed lives but you need to wake up granddad. Look at some job ads.



moon is a woman - and tbf, it looked to me like she was just expressing genuine surprise/horror at the figure.
There are plenty of people who may have progressed through a career or a working life without realising that this is the norm now - and not just for school leavers in first jobs (who're lucky these days if they can find anything that isn't an even more piss-paid fucking apprenticeship).


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## bubblesmcgrath (Jun 13, 2014)

Wrap up a large cabbage and present it to him in front of everyone. ... say...
"A token of my esteem for you"




Ps. I know someone who did that ...


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## Plumdaff (Jun 13, 2014)

It sounds fucking cultish, and not on at all. I've never heard of anything like it. Even in call centres. My sister in law works in one and although they're a shitty employer and vile institution in a myriad of ways, the onus on ground level is small perks and gifts for the workers doing a stressful job for fuck all. 

Isn't turnover monumental?


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Funnily enough yesterday a visiting 'celebrity' (that is what they call people high up in the bank, seriously) told us that we were well paid.


 
I just don't have the words or the emoticons to deal with this thread any more.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jun 13, 2014)

We used to get together and get the boss a present for Christmas.  He was always uncomfortable with this.  About five years ago he put his foot down and said he'd rather people gave money to charity instead.  He double-matches anything we put in.  It's one of the best things I've seen the man do.


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## cesare (Jun 13, 2014)

Is it a UK bank?


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## Yelkcub (Jun 13, 2014)

That is absolute bollocks OP. It's not far from what I used to see in construction/highways/utilities - supervisors/managers 'charging' labourers to keep them employed. In one place where the firm has two contracts, each with a different council, the wankers would tell the lads that council A had asked to have them removed but they could get them on with council B for £x.

Conversely I buy my office breakfast every Friday and don't expense it.


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

cesare said:


> Is it a UK bank?


 
<still betting on an American back, starting with the letter 'C'...>


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 13, 2014)

moon said:


> What are you paid 13k to do?
> I don't mean to be funny but 20 years ago school leavers in london were earning that amount doing basic office jobs..



I don't think they were. I remember 1994 in London quite well and you could get graduate trainees for £10k a year. £14k was second-jobber territory. Unskilled 16+ labour must have been £8k or so.

As everyone else has said, managers shaking staff down for presents is weird beyond belief. There are cultures where everyone, from juniors up to seniors, ends up having to take their turn and treat the team in some way - perhaps to doughnuts. But even that is rare; most people are pretty sensitive to income disparity.


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## wayward bob (Jun 13, 2014)

20 years ago i was on £9k pro rata as a graduate (arts-council funded charity - not sure there's any left now) outside london.


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## cesare (Jun 13, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I don't think they were. I remember 1994 in London quite well and you could get graduate trainees for £10k a year. £14k was second-jobber territory. Unskilled 16+ labour must have been £8k or so.



Some of the research pre-NMW was being done around 1995. £3.50 ph (£7210 pa) would have been low but not unheard of, towards the lower of the band being discussed for NMW at the time.


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## purenarcotic (Jun 13, 2014)

This manager sounds like a right prick. Someone in the office got a new job and the manager got her a bottle of bubbly and a card. We all chipped in but she organised it all


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## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2014)

purenarcotic said:


> This manager sounds like a right prick. Someone in the office got a new job and the manager got her a bottle of bubbly and a card. We all chipped in but she organised it all


In our department, the admin refuses to organise a leaving gift for anyone leaving as 'they will be going on to better their position' (her words). I was horrified when I first heard her say it, it seems extremely rude and unkind not to get a gift for someone leaving after 15 years with the same company. Yet people who retire (and we had a lot at one point) even if they're on the final salary scheme get collections put round for them. There's no logic to it, I think it's just nastiness on her part.


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## StoneRoad (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed - that situation is well out of order, and No, none of you shouldn't put up with it. Blatant bullying is close enough a description. I've never heard of such a situation being compulsory, I've put in for a thank you gift when something special has been done by a volunteer trainer working a charity situation.

In several of the places I've worked at, the tradition has been the £1/head whip round for card / small prezzie on birthday or significant anniversary, no matter who it was; the response was the birthday person brought cakes/biscuits in on the day. For the last but one place, I got 50 items - mostly small/silly - in a "bran tub" for my 50th birthday! At Crimbo the directors bought drinks for staff and a meal out, followed by more drinks - if staff brought their partners, then it was buy your own after the first couple of rounds.


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## emanymton (Jun 13, 2014)

What really gets me is that it sounds like most of the others went along with it! please tell me they are all really young with no real experience of work?

For the record I work for a bank (tend to keep it quiet on here ), but never in a call center thank God, and have never come across anything like this. My house mate works in a really shity call centre for an alarm company, and they can be such bastards they make my bosses look like saints but even there has nothing like this.


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## MrSki (Jun 13, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> In our department, the admin refuses to organise a leaving gift for anyone leaving as 'they will be going on to better their position' (her words). I was horrified when I first heard her say it, it seems extremely rude and unkind not to get a gift for someone leaving after 15 years with the same company. Yet people who retire (and we had a lot at one point) even if they're on the final salary scheme get collections put round for them. There's no logic to it, I think it's just nastiness on her part.


When I was made redundant from my last proper job after 11 years, I was given a Kindle, an Arsenal shirt, a laminated mock up of the monthly journal that we published (Me on the cover asleep at a past Xmas dinner) & a few other gifts. There were only eight other full time employees. I felt guilty for their generous behaviour & when we went for drinks afterwards the director was the fist to put his hand in his pocket. After that there was a whip which I was not allowed to contribute to. 

Although all the presents were appreciated, it was the fact that the editor (& assistant editor) had gone to all the bother of mocking up a magazine cover with all my scolding emails as features. It certainly made me feel appreciated.


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## emanymton (Jun 13, 2014)

StoneRoad said:


> J Ed - that situation is well out of order, and No, none of you shouldn't put up with it. Blatant bullying is close enough a description. I've never heard of such a situation being compulsory, I've put in for a thank you gift when something special has been done by a volunteer trainer working a charity situation.
> 
> In several of the places I've worked at, the tradition has been the £1/head whip round for card / small prezzie on birthday or significant anniversary, no matter who it was; the response was the birthday person brought cakes/biscuits in on the day. For the last but one place, I got 50 items - mostly small/silly - in a "bran tub" for my 50th birthday! At Crimbo the directors bought drinks for staff and a meal out, followed by more drinks - if staff brought their partners, then it was buy your own after the first couple of rounds.


To go somewhat off topic, I used to work with someone who everyone hatted on account of him being an insufferable prick. When he left* they had a whip round on his section and collected absolutely no money, so his manager just got him a £10 gift card. 

*for a higher grade job for which it was generally accepted he must have lied through his teeth to get.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2014)

cesare said:


> Some of the research pre-NMW was being done around 1995. £3.50 ph (£7210 pa) would have been low but not unheard of, towards the lower of the band being discussed for NMW at the time.


Temping around that period I generally got about £5.50 ph from Blue Arrow for public sector and cheaparse private work (London or Edinburgh). It was a revelation that some agencies would pay you £9 or £10 for doing the same jobs for City firms.

Having said that, IT skills were way rarer back then. Nowadays knowing how to use Word and being able to type isn't distinctive, plus there's a lot less work for copy typists I would guess (if there is any at all).


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## MrSki (Jun 13, 2014)

I remember doing a temp job in 1986 where the rate went from £3.50 to £4.50. It was not a skilled job in any sense.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jun 13, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Having said that, IT skills were way rarer back then. Nowadays knowing how to use Word and being able to type isn't distinctive, plus there's a lot less work for copy typists I would guess (if there is any at all).



We used to employ 8-10 of them along with a dozen typesetters.  We're down to four typesetters.  If fact we used to have 65 employees.  Now we do double the volume with only 45.


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## cesare (Jun 13, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Temping around that period I generally got about £5.50 ph from Blue Arrow for public sector and cheaparse private work (London or Edinburgh). It was a revelation that some agencies would pay you £9 or £10 for doing the same jobs for City firms.
> 
> Having said that, IT skills were way rarer back then. Nowadays knowing how to use Word and being able to type isn't distinctive, plus there's a lot less work for copy typists I would guess (if there is any at all).


Page 22 gives 1994 data, but it doesn't provide separate figures for London. http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=RP95-7

It makes me wonder to what extent NMW has had the effect of keeping wages down - employers using it as a target rather than a minimum.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2014)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> We used to employ 8-10 of them along with a dozen typesetters.  We're down to four typesetters.  If fact we used to have 65 employees.  Now we do double the volume with only 45.


The main point of copy typists was to type up letters from execs who couldn't/didn't want to type IME, and even the real dinosaurs have all been made to send their stuff by email by now. It feels like yesterday but the corporate climate has changed an awful lot in 20 years.

Having said that, the average middle manager now sounds far worse when typing their own emails than they would have if I'd been taking their dictation and correcting their spelling and grammar


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## 8ball (Jun 13, 2014)

MrSki said:


> I remember doing a temp job in 1986 where the rate went from £3.50 to £4.50. It was not a skilled job in any sense.


 
Wow - I remember getting to £4 an hour in 1997/8 and being fairly pleased about it - sounds like an ok gig you had.

<I was living in a septic tank at the time, mind>


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## geminisnake (Jun 13, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> my response (to the situation not the poster) is along the lines of "gettaefuck" (there are times when scots is more expressive.)



The correct response to the twat getting a gift from lower paid workers should have been "Aye. Right." said in the appropriate tone with raised eyebrows.


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## quimcunx (Jun 13, 2014)

Is it actually institution wide or just this wideboy?


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 13, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> In our department, the admin refuses to organise a leaving gift for anyone leaving as 'they will be going on to better their position' (her words). I was horrified when I first heard her say it, it seems extremely rude and unkind not to get a gift for someone leaving after 15 years with the same company. Yet people who retire (and we had a lot at one point) even if they're on the final salary scheme get collections put round for them. There's no logic to it, I think it's just nastiness on her part.



I've been 'the admin' and it does get a bit trying being expected to organise the gift and do every single time someone leaves. And then having the manager get the thanks for the lovely send off. Her reasoning sounds pretty off but maybe there's a bit more to it? Dunno.


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## N_igma (Jun 13, 2014)

Mate tell him to go shove his gift up his hole. Alternatively contact HR and let them take care of this bullshit.


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 13, 2014)

I'd contact the bank and tell then it's going on. they would take things like gifts being expected seriously, for security reasons.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jun 13, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It feels like yesterday but the corporate climate has changed an awful lot in 20 years.



I can only agree with you having started in the job market in the era when WordPerfect 5.1 was new.


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## Manter (Jun 13, 2014)

cesare said:


> Page 22 gives 1994 data, but it doesn't provide separate figures for London. http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=RP95-7
> 
> It makes me wonder to what extent NMW has had the effect of keeping wages down - employers using it as a target rather than a minimum.


That's one of the objections to it. I have a long report to read on potential ways to make it a floor not a sort of national price fix. Will be interested to see what it says.


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## Manter (Jun 13, 2014)

J Ed another vote for seriously fucking weird. And imagine it contravenes the internal policies (I certainly sign something on bribery and gifts, saying I won't solicit, accept etc, and I work in a regulated industry (not a bank but we have to follow the same regulation in lots of stuff). Report him- Union, HR or management. My place he'd be dismissed.


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## sheothebudworths (Jun 13, 2014)

poptyping said:


> I've been 'the admin' and it does get a bit trying being expected to organise the gift and do every single time someone leaves. And then having the manager get the thanks for the lovely send off. Her reasoning sounds pretty off but maybe there's a bit more to it? Dunno.



Yeah, I don't think organising birthday/leaving presents/parties should ever be left down to a single individual - and certainly not assumed as part of anyone's job description.

I'm not sure why anyone would imagine differently either?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2014)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I can only agree with you having started in the job market in the era when WordPerfect 5.1 was new.


And a lot better than Word


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## Part 2 (Jun 13, 2014)

I'll buy you a bottle of gin and a load of acid. All you have to do is film the aftermath.


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## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2014)

poptyping said:


> I've been 'the admin' and it does get a bit trying being expected to organise the gift and do every single time someone leaves. And then having the manager get the thanks for the lovely send off. Her reasoning sounds pretty off but maybe there's a bit more to it? Dunno.


We're not even asking her to organise it - she just tells us we're not allowed to. We usually ignore her.

She also told me if my document was more than 20 pages long I can't use the printer near her. Her clique all get to use it and she doesn't say a word to them.


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 13, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> We're not even asking her to organise it - she just tells us we're not allowed to. We usually ignore her.
> 
> She also told me if my document was more than 20 pages long I can't use the printer near her. Her clique all get to use it and she doesn't say a word to them.



Oh when you said she refuses to organise it sounded like you had asked her to...

The printer thing made me laugh. It's also annoying as the admin to have to sit in the shitest desk in the office, generally where the rest of the office have 'easy access to you' - which sounds well wrong - and next to the noisy printer cos no other fucker will sit there. And would kick up a fuss if asked. Admin know that they are considered 10 a penny so just put up with it.

I'm glad I went back to college but I'm not looking forward to going back to work in an office admin or no


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## discokermit (Jun 13, 2014)

cesare said:


> Some of the research pre-NMW was being done around 1995. £3.50 ph (£7210 pa) would have been low but not unheard of, towards the lower of the band being discussed for NMW at the time.


in between welding jobs i did security in '95 for £2.50 an hour.


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## emanymton (Jun 13, 2014)

Manter said:


> J Ed another vote for seriously fucking weird. And imagine it contravenes the internal policies (I certainly sign something on bribery and gifts, saying I won't solicit, accept etc, and I work in a regulated industry (not a bank but we have to follow the same regulation in lots of stuff). Report him- Union, HR or management. My place he'd be dismissed.


I was considering this, we have a policy on bribery and gifts, but obviously it is mainly focuses on gifts from customers, I have been trying to remember what it says about internal gifts. Could be worth J Ed looking to see if he can find a copy of the policy anywhere.


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## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

8ball said:


> <still betting on an American back, starting with the letter 'C'...>



It's a Spanish bank


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## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

emanymton said:


> I was considering this, we have a policy on bribery and gifts, but obviously it is mainly focuses on gifts from customers, I have been trying to remember what it says about internal gifts. Could be worth J Ed looking to see if he can find a copy of the policy anywhere.



I have already looked, it's within the rules.


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## Manter (Jun 13, 2014)

emanymton said:


> I was considering this, we have a policy on bribery and gifts, but obviously it is mainly focuses on gifts from customers, I have been trying to remember what it says about internal gifts. Could be worth J Ed looking to see if he can find a copy of the policy anywhere.


I checked the wording on mine- it is aimed at external gifts, obv, but the wording says 'will not at any time or for any reason solicit gifts or payments;'


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## J Ed (Jun 13, 2014)

emanymton said:


> What really gets me is that it sounds like most of the others went along with it! please tell me they are all really young with no real experience of work?



Yeah most of them are kids, the only other person to express any anger about it is an older ex-teacher who is an all round great person. The person who gave the gift who was told that her gift was a joke is a 19 year old woman, it's her first job.


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 13, 2014)

Pretty appalling behaviour


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## emanymton (Jun 14, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I have already looked, it's within the rules.


Yeah thought it might me, it's pretty low level stuff as well.


J Ed said:


> Yeah most of them are kids, the only other person to express any anger about it is an older ex-teacher who is an all round great person. The person who gave the gift who was told that her gift was a joke is a 19 year old woman, it's her first job.


God what a horrible way to treat someone, this guy really is fucking scum.

Assuming you work for the bank I think and a bit of googling it looks like you don't even have a proper union, more like a staff association that managed to get affiliated to the TUC. That could be why things are so fucked up. Is that the union you have joined?


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## weltweit (Jun 14, 2014)

Never come across workers being expected to give gifts to managers. Smells wrong, especially people on a low salary being expected to buy expensive gifts. Can you not just opt out? It definitely seems wrong.


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## J Ed (Jun 14, 2014)

emanymton said:


> Assuming you work for the bank I think and a bit of googling it looks like you don't even have a proper union, more like a staff association that managed to get affiliated to the TUC. That could be why things are so fucked up. Is that the union you have joined?



The CWU has some representation and I have joined them, I haven't figured out how much quite yet.


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## equationgirl (Jun 14, 2014)

This guy is blatantly taking advantage of young people in their first job, or those that don't know what happens at other employers. It's wrong, plain and simple.


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## xenon (Jun 14, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> This guy is blatantly taking advantage of young people in their first job, or those that don't know what happens at other employers. It's wrong, plain and simple.



Yep seems so to me. I've not had many jobs TBF. Have worked in a callcentre though and whilst it was crap in many ways, this level if shitatude would have been bizarre and pisstaking beyond belief.


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## bubblesmcgrath (Jun 14, 2014)

Reminds me of a teacher we had in primary school who used to stand on kids toes for their bag of taytos..........




Bastard


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 14, 2014)

as a point of balance, I got really pissed off about this sort of thing at my job and then later felt like a complete jerk/ humbug for feeling that way. 
Around Christmas time, an email went out asking for donations for a big gift to present to the director of our program. 
Now, this woman is not only pretty wealthy, travels all over the world, has a nice car, beautiful clothes, etc...she also was born into her position somewhat (her mother started the company) 
I was appalled..."Wtf? Why should we, who are not paid nearly enough for what we do (even though it's the industry standard for some reason) chip in to get _our employer_ a gift?" 

Then, a few weeks later, the program director walks in and hands us all $100 Visa gift cards from herself plus $150 gift cards from the parents of the kids in our program (she had organized the collecting of money for our gifts)...this on top of the Christmas dinner and other events she pays for out of her own pocket throughout the year. 

It was then that I realized why the people who had worked there for a while had felt like she deserved something in return.


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## equationgirl (Jun 14, 2014)

Miss Caphat said:


> as a point of balance, I got really pissed off about this sort of thing at my job and then later felt like a complete jerk/ humbug for feeling that way.
> Around Christmas time, an email went out asking for donations for a big gift to present to the director of our program.
> Now, this woman is not only pretty wealthy, travels all over the world, has a nice car, beautiful clothes, etc...she also was born into her position somewhat (her mother started the company)
> I was appalled..."Wtf? Why should we, who are not paid nearly enough for what we do (even though it's the industry standard for some reason) chip in to get _our employer_ a gift?"
> ...


But in this case your director isn't demanding a Prada handbag from everyone, and people want to show their appreciation of what she's done by giving her a gift, which is fine.


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## MrSki (Jun 14, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Reminds me of a teacher we had in primary school who used to stand on kids toes for their bag of taytos..........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I was at junior school a classmate got the teacher a bottle of Lady Grecian 2000.


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## Dr_Herbz (Jun 14, 2014)

MrSki said:


> When I was at junior school a classmate got the teacher a bottle of Lady Grecian 2000.


I hope he was a male teacher?


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## MrSki (Jun 14, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I hope he was a male teacher?


No it was a female.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 14, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> But in this case your director isn't demanding a Prada handbag from everyone, and people want to show their appreciation of what she's done by giving her a gift, which is fine.



right, I understand that there's a big difference...I guess I just meant that sometimes when you're thinking something seems really unfair and it turns out it's not. 
It is very wrong and weird for anyone to demand gifts though!


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## bubblesmcgrath (Jun 14, 2014)

Gifts in the workplace are only acceptable on retirement so long as it's not a watch, clock or other time related gift. 
IMO


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## maomao (Jun 14, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Gifts in the workplace are only acceptable on retirement so long as it's not a watch, clock or other time related gift.
> IMO


Or secret santa. Nothing wrong with secret santa as long as there's a reasonable price limit on the gifts.


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## Plumdaff (Jun 14, 2014)

There's always been a fiver limit on Secret Santa where I've worked.


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## maomao (Jun 14, 2014)

Plumdaff said:


> There's always been a fiver limit on Secret Santa where I've worked.


Five or ten wherever I've worked but mrs maomao was at a rather well off firm that set a twenty pound limit one year! It was the highest salary she was ever on and she got a rather nice collection of Quentin Tarrantino DVDs out of it though.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 14, 2014)

my (other) boss gave me a macbook air for Christmas this past year  
I'm using it now. I had to try very hard not to do one of these


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 14, 2014)

Bosses distributing presents is bad though. Even if they don't have the ability to pick and choose who gets what, at best it's unpredictable wage-replacement stuff with shit that people might not want. Usually it's something to express dominance - "look I can choose to give you drinks and laptops, aren't I amazing". I have seen this at my work where stupid parties that I don't want to go to are supposed to be some sort of "bonus".

Pay people properly so they can make their own decisions without being patronised.


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## Miss Caphat (Jun 14, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Bosses distributing presents is bad though. Even if they don't have the ability to pick and choose who gets what, at best it's unpredictable wage-replacement stuff with shit that people might not want. Usually it's something to express dominance - "look I can choose to give you drinks and laptops, aren't I amazing". I have seen this at my work where stupid parties that I don't want to go to are supposed to be some sort of "bonus".
> 
> Pay people properly so they can make their own decisions without being patronised.



I partly agree with you...but it depends. I am very happy about my laptop as my other one was about to die. 
Also, I don't see it as a dominance thing in that instance as I'm the only employee...all the other people involved in the company are outside agents who expect to be wined and dined to some extent...they're the ones who bring money into the company and my salary is dependent on how much money they bring into the company. So, it was a nice gesture from my boss, and he is a genuinely nice person and it did not feel patronizing at all. 

At the other job, I do feel a bit insulted about the fact that they spend so much money on extras and events and dinners for us, yet the pay for our positions and the lack of opportunity for full-time work is quite sucky. It does seem rather showy, too.


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## maomao (Jun 14, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Bosses distributing presents is bad though. Even if they don't have the ability to pick and choose who gets what, at best it's unpredictable wage-replacement stuff with shit that people might not want. Usually it's something to express dominance - "look I can choose to give you drinks and laptops, aren't I amazing". I have seen this at my work where stupid parties that I don't want to go to are supposed to be some sort of "bonus".
> 
> Pay people properly so they can make their own decisions without being patronised.


We had a nice party and got a Kindle Fire each last year. I would rather have had a £1,000 bonus but as that wasn't happening I reckon the party and Kindle was better than a £150 bonus. Mind you, it was a small company and we did for the most part all get on and genuinely wanted some sort of Christmas do.


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## Garek (Jun 14, 2014)

Never heard of this. Sounds disgusting and wrong. 

I have enough problems with my boss bringing in coffee and pastries every now and again. Yes, nice gesture, appreciated. On the other hand this is someone who could fire me any time. My appreciation for the kindness is tainted by the power relations involved.

The idea of spending a single shekel of my own money on any boss appals me.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 14, 2014)

maomao said:


> We had a nice party and got a Kindle Fire each last year. I would rather have had a £1,000 bonus but as that wasn't happening I reckon the party and Kindle was better than a £150 bonus. Mind you, it was a small company and we did for the most part all get on and genuinely wanted some sort of Christmas do.


Come next wage increase negotiation: "yeah but you got a Kindle Fire".


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## maomao (Jun 14, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Come next wage increase negotiation: "yeah but you got a Kindle Fire".


As a general point you're right but I'm lucky enough to work for someone who won't pull that kind of shit with me. So much so that I've gone back to work for him even after the last firm went tits up. Worth the risk for a bit of autonomy and respect. Spent a short time in between working for a more 'normal' company and couldn't take it.


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## Greebo (Jun 14, 2014)

MrSki said:


> When I was at junior school a classmate got the teacher a bottle of Lady Grecian 2000.


Clever gift - a subtle insult and a slow culmulative poison (it contained lead acetate - now bismuth acetate in the UK version).


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## MrSki (Jun 14, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Clever gift - a subtle insult and a slow culmulative poison (it contains lead acetate).


I expect he nicked it from the shop. Revenge from a couple of canings. But her face! It is ingrained in my memory when she unwrapped it.


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## Cloo (Jun 14, 2014)

I've heard that this is a thing in the Far East, but never heard of it in the UK. Sounds like an unpleasant foible of this 'manager'.


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## 8ball (Jun 15, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It's a Spanish bank



I'd hoped it was just the one


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## Pingu (Jun 16, 2014)

only present anyone who expected that from me would be getting would be a shit sandwich


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## el-ahrairah (Jun 16, 2014)

has anyone suggested telling them to get to fuck?  i'm sure that's the best option here.


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## 8ball (Jun 16, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> has anyone suggested telling them to get to fuck?  i'm sure that's the best option here.


 
It's the best option in _most_ respects.


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## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed any news?


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## J Ed (Jun 16, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> J Ed any news?



I haven't found out who the union rep is yet, so I haven't been able to tell anyone but the only other person who objected handed in her notice today. She did that at 12:30 and they left her alone in a room until 6:30 despite several people, including her daughter who also works there, asking them to let her leave.

I spoke to a few other people about what happened and they admitted to me how uncomfortable they felt about the situation and agreed to corroborate what happened if we make a complaint.


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## free spirit (Jun 16, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I'm a manager, my staff recently gifted me a nice red lighter.
> 
> It said in big white letters: GO FUCK YOURSELF


I got a mr man badge that said 'fuck off, I'm having a bad day.'

must find it again actually, it was quite a useful present.


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## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2014)

free spirit said:


> I got a mr man badge that said 'fuck off, I'm having a bad day.'
> 
> must find it again actually, it was quite a useful present.


Oooh I'd love one of those


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I haven't found out who the union rep is yet, so I haven't been able to tell anyone but the only other person who objected handed in her notice today. She did that at 12:30 and they left her alone in a room until 6:30 despite several people, including her daughter who also works there, asking them to let her leave.
> 
> I spoke to a few other people about what happened and they admitted to me how uncomfortable they felt about the situation and agreed to corroborate what happened if we make a complaint.



I don't understand?  They wouldn't allow this person to leave for six hours after they handed in their notice?


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## friedaweed (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> So at my work, which is a £13,900 a year job which really should be a lot better remunerated for the stress and responsibility, there seems to be a culture of gift giving from employees to managers.
> 
> At the end of a four week training session managers, who are on 20k+, request and expect expensive presents from trainees. So much so that one manager contacted several trainees in my group telling them what brand of luxury gin our assigned manager liked.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should all give him something together like this 





Only one of you needs to cough up for the bullet


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## J Ed (Jun 16, 2014)

poptyping said:


> I don't understand?  They wouldn't allow this person to leave for six hours after they handed in their notice?



Yep, they told her they needed someone senior to sign her out and then just left her there and told her not to leave. It's not as if they forgot either since multiple people tried to get them to let her leave. Utterly surreal.


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## weepiper (Jun 16, 2014)

They sound like a shower of cunts.


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## cesare (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Yep, they told her they needed someone senior to sign her out and then just left her there and told her not to leave. It's not as if they forgot either since multiple people tried to get them to let her leave. Utterly surreal.


Did they lock her in or something?


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Yep, they told her they needed someone senior to sign her out and then just left her there and told her not to leave. It's not as if they forgot either since multiple people tried to get them to let her leave. Utterly surreal.



So they held her against her will? Fucking hell. If you have any other employment options then I think you need to get the fuck out of there or make a plan to get out asap.


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 16, 2014)

Why couldn't she just walk out after giving her notice in? Worried about not getting paid?


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## J Ed (Jun 16, 2014)

cesare said:


> Did they lock her in or something?





poptyping said:


> So they held her against her will? Fucking hell. If you have any other employment options then I think you need to get the fuck out of there or make a plan to get out asap.



They didn't hold her against her will but they basically said that she needed to stay there and it was heavily implied that if she didn't then she would have to work her notice and they would come after her for breaching security.


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## cesare (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> They didn't hold her against her will but they basically said that she needed to stay there and it was heavily implied that if she didn't then she would have to work her notice and they would come after her for breaching security.


Fuck that. She should have walked!


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 16, 2014)

cesare said:


> Fuck that. She should have walked!



This.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 16, 2014)

weepiper said:


> They sound like a shower of cunts.



that kinda sums my feelings up


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## J Ed (Jun 16, 2014)

cesare said:


> Fuck that. She should have walked!



I would have walked, she's an older woman though and I think she felt intimidated which is what they wanted. I went and saw her during my lunch break and told her to leave but she was worried that they would make her work her notice and she's the type that doesn't like to inconvenience anyone even if they are massive cunts. I really do need another job, searching desperately at the moment


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 16, 2014)

What sort of work are you looking for? People on here might be able to suggest things to look at


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I really do need another job, searching desperately at the moment



don't forget a few frozen prawns in strategic locations on your last day...


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## cesare (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I would have walked, she's an older woman though and I think she felt intimidated which is what they wanted. I went and saw her during my lunch break and told her to leave but she was worried that they would make her work her notice and she's the type that doesn't like to inconvenience anyone even if they are massive cunts. I really do need another job, searching desperately at the moment



Good luck finding something else ASAP.


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## J Ed (Jun 16, 2014)

poptyping said:


> What sort of work are you looking for? People on here might be able to suggest things to look at



Preferably teaching assistant stuff but at the moment just to get out of this job I am looking for anything that isn't temporary or zero hours


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## Thimble Queen (Jun 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Preferably teaching assistant stuff but at the moment just to get out of this job I am looking for anything that isn't temporary or zero hours



I'll PM you


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 17, 2014)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I'm a manager, my staff recently gifted me a nice red lighter.
> 
> It said in big white letters: GO FUCK YOURSELF











It's run out of gas, 5t3IIa


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## CNT36 (Jun 17, 2014)

moon said:


> sucks.. you should demand they pay you a living wage and shove the luxury gin up...blah blah
> 
> Seriously though.. I once worked somewhere where they paid junior staff below the companies own banding guidelines.. had a few meetings with the managers and it resulted in everyone being given a pay rise.
> I'm not saying this will work but its worth a try


When I was working as a support worker we had to go to a meeting to meet the new head of children's services. It was my team and a bunch of networking, "isn't it great to be out of the office" cunts. The meeting began with the new chief explaining how we should all be thankful that we are doing the job in Cornwall where it is sunny. He then went on to tell us how awful it was that many of the people we worked with were living in poverty as they were living on x amount and that we needed to take that into account and work hard etc. A lot of nodding and oh dears from the audience but a less sympathetic response when we pointed out the threshold was several thousand pounds more than what anyone on our team earnt.


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## J Ed (Jun 17, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> When I was working as a support worker we had to go to a meeting to meet the new head of children's services. It was my team and a bunch of networking, "isn't it great to be out of the office" cunts. The meeting began with the new chief explaining how we should all be thankful that we are doing the job in Cornwall where it is sunny. He then went on to tell us how awful it was that many of the people we worked with were living in poverty as they were living on x amount and that we needed to take that into account and work hard etc. A lot of nodding and oh dears from the audience but a less sympathetic response when we pointed out the threshold was several thousand pounds more than what anyone on our team earnt.



Amazing how many of these people in position of power seem to genuinely believe shit like that, then again it's hard to feel guilty when you are ignorant like that. Maybe the ignorance is deliberate.

Also I agree 100% on the out of the office faux-fun bullshit, to be totally honest I much prefer the honesty of working in a restaurant where no one pretends that the actual work and remuneration aren't shit.


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## The Boy (Jun 18, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> don't forget a few frozen prawns in strategic locations on your last day...



Cod roe is a) smellier; b) cheaper; c) goes off faster.


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## equationgirl (Jun 18, 2014)

The Boy said:


> Cod roe is a) smellier; b) cheaper; c) goes off faster.


*makes notes*

Just cod roe or would any roe do?


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## The Boy (Jun 18, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> *makes notes*
> 
> Just cod roe or would any roe do?



I imagine any would do.


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## equationgirl (Jun 19, 2014)

The Boy said:


> I imagine any would do.


Good to know


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## xenon (Jun 19, 2014)

Set the fire alarm off that is the only way and also give that chocolate makes people shit themselves


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## friendofdorothy (Jun 19, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Funnily enough yesterday a visiting 'celebrity' (that is what they call people high up in the bank, seriously) told us that we were well paid.



Sounds like this bank has a serious ego problem. Well paid? Compared with where?  Perhaps they think if they say it often you'll all believe it.


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## Manter (Jun 20, 2014)

I mentioned this gift thing to our compliance and risk guy today and he was horrified, it'd be gross misconduct in our office- he'd be surprised if it wasn't dismissal.


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## TopCat (Jun 20, 2014)

Some couriers at the firm I worked for used to give packets of coke to the controllers to get fed the best lucrative work. A couple of controllers bikes got altered and the practice largely stopped.


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## J Ed (Jun 21, 2014)

smmudge said:


> From one call-centre worker to another...just, no! You stick a pound in the whip round and sign their card when it's their birthday (same as everyone else then). And they buy you a chocolate egg at easter, and some chocolates to share at xmas.



I was just wondering if you'd also noticed something that I have noticed, which wasn't really as apparent to me when I worked in restaurants... do you find that posh rich people are very often incredibly fucking rude?


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## TopCat (Jun 26, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I was just wondering if you'd also noticed something that I have noticed, which wasn't really as apparent to me when I worked in restaurants... do you find that posh rich people are very often incredibly fucking rude?


I was sacked as a waiter for throttling a boorish rich bastard. <proud>


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