# Sherlock Series 3



## Santino (Dec 31, 2013)

Because a new thread is required.


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 1, 2014)

Perhaps this will wash the foul aftertaste of Dr Who away.


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## fizzerbird (Jan 1, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Perhaps this will wash the foul aftertaste of Dr Who away.



oh horrah! Not just me then


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## fizzerbird (Jan 1, 2014)

Benedict Cumberbatch...excellent Sherlock, excellent name!


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 1, 2014)

fizzerbird said:


> Benedict Cumberbatch...excellent Sherlock, excellent name!



It was certainly a masterstroke by the BBC to find somebody with an even more improbable name than the hero to play Holmes.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 1, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> It was certainly a masterstroke by the BBC to find somebody with an even more improbable name than the hero to play Holmes.


He used to be in the BBC Radio 4 comedy series "Cabin Pressure" (where I first came across him), along with Roger Allam.  Someone I've seen performing at the Globe, who also was at a Friends "Meet the Cast" which I attended.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 1, 2014)

Stephenie Cole was in it as well (the Radio 4 series).


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## muscovyduck (Jan 1, 2014)

Cabin Pressure is the best


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## wayward bob (Jan 1, 2014)

heh i <3 cabin pressure, as does my 10yo she's always dead excited when there's a new episode out  

been looking forward to this for so long i reckon it can only turn out to be a disappointment


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## Voley (Jan 1, 2014)

Yeah, looking forward to this. Watched the last episode last night to get me in the mood. They've been good fun so far.


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## T & P (Jan 1, 2014)

There have been quite a few theories on the net about how he faked his death. I'll be interesting to see who was right. I'm favouring the idea of him jumping into the rubbish lorry and ingesting some chemical compound supplied by his pathologist friend to slow his heart and mask his vital signs.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2014)

Can't remember any TV I've been looking forward to quite so much. Loved the first two series SO MUCH.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2014)

Oh, and his coat will be mine. One day.


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## Voley (Jan 1, 2014)

I reckon he actually died and will conduct all future investigations via Derek Acorah.


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## joustmaster (Jan 1, 2014)

is this episode going to be, pretty much, The Adventure of the Empty House?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> is this episode going to be, pretty much, The Adventure of the Empty House?


Maybe. What I've enjoyed so far is that while each episode has clearly been based on a particular story, there have been references and bits taken from loads of others as well.


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 1, 2014)

Um, what the fuck?


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 1, 2014)

More naked Lara Pulver please.

There is nothing that can't be improved by inserting naked Lara Pulver within.


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## Corax (Jan 1, 2014)

fizzerbird said:


> Benedict Cumberbatch...excellent Sherlock, excellent name!


He went to Harrow, so anyone who watches it is a class traitor.


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 1, 2014)

I like Martin Freeman, but does he ham it up a bit?


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## Supine (Jan 1, 2014)

Would be good if we could have a crime and some deductions being made. Call me an old school fan...


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 1, 2014)

Maybe Sherlock could explain the Dr Who plotlines of Steven moffat.


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## Thora (Jan 1, 2014)

I used to live just round the corner from the bonfire


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## Kidda (Jan 1, 2014)

I really wanted to like this episode but it's just been so slow and has very little point to it.


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## marty21 (Jan 1, 2014)

jobs for the family too - parents and partner have got gigs in this so far


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## Thora (Jan 1, 2014)

Is this just turning into V for Vendetta?


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## Supine (Jan 1, 2014)

Turned it off before the end. Did I miss owt?


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## marty21 (Jan 1, 2014)

Supine said:


> Turned it off before the end. Did I miss owt?


it is still on!


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 1, 2014)

my inner anorak is mildly irked by the fact that the underground carriage involved  transmogrified from a jubilee line train (allegedly on the district line) to a piccadilly line train to a district line train, which wouldn't have fitted down the tube tunnel it was in...


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

Supine said:


> Would be good if we could have a crime and some deductions being made. Call me an old school fan...


Yes, this did irk me somewhat too.

Was that Alex Ferguson at the end?


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## wayward bob (Jan 1, 2014)

a bit meh here tbh, too much messing around with the old story and not enough new story...


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## muscovyduck (Jan 1, 2014)

the best bit was when it morphed into a music video


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## Part 2 (Jan 1, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Was that Alex Ferguson at the end?



My 13 year old said the same.

"Imagine if he'd quit football to be an actor in Sherlock. I'd even like him then."


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## muscovyduck (Jan 1, 2014)

Hoping it's not going to turn into some fucking ridiculous Dr Who style story arc.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

wayward bob said:


> a bit meh here tbh, too much messing around with the old story and not enough new story...


I think this is very often the case with successful series - as they go on they become more soap opera-esque as the concerns of the characters get in the way of storytelling. Obviously good character development is important to good storytelling, but there's a balance that needs to be struck and can sometimes be lost.

I still think we're lucky to be getting Sherlock. Given the cast I imagine we won't be getting much more, so we should enjoy it while we can


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 1, 2014)

I think that did the character stuff around yer man's return spot on, but to burn so much time on it maybe wasn't the best choice- It's only 3x90 minutes every couple of years after all.


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## Bob_the_lost (Jan 1, 2014)

For real old school fans the one with the step father that was pretending to be a boyfriend was more or less a straight copy from the original works.

Then again, you all knew that didn't you.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2014)

That was fantastic, what are you all moaning for? 

Need to watch it again, see what I missed first time. There were nods to a few of the stories there...


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## telbert (Jan 1, 2014)

Yeah. good episode.Very nice to see some references to other stories in the canon(Blue carbuncle,A case of identity).I think Martin Freemans overdoing a bit and i would have loved it if Mary Maunston turned out to be the bird in the back of Mycrofts car that he fancied.I cant remember if Colonel Sebastian  Moran has already made an appearance in series 1&2,if not it may play a part in next episode.Roll on Sunday evening.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 1, 2014)

Totally.  Derren fucking Brown.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 1, 2014)

telbert said:


> Yeah. good episode.Very nice to see some references to other stories in the canon(Blue carbuncle,A case of identity).I think Martin Freemans overdoing a bit and i would have loved it if Mary Maunston turned out to be the bird in the back of Mycrofts car that he fancied.I cant remember if Colonel Sebastian  Moran has already made an appearance in series 1&2,if not it may play a part in next episode.Roll on Sunday evening.



yes - there have been a few such references throughout the first two series.

tonight's mentioned the 'colossal schemes of baron mapertuis' - this was one of the cases mentioned in passing in the original canon


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That was fantastic, what are you all moaning for?
> 
> Need to watch it again, see what I missed first time. There were nods to a few of the stories there...


I think it's set the standard very high, which obviously can cause problems. It was still very good, but it dragged in the second third and like others I would have liked a bit more focus on the actual case.

Reading the initial comments above it also seems like there was quite a bit for fans of the books, and I was well aware going into this series that they've pretty much exhausted my limited knowledge of the stories.

Still very enjoyable though


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Totally.  Derren fucking Brown.


I'm mildly embarrassed to say I fell for that. I was thinking "oh fuck, Moffat's fucked this up too " Really should have seen it coming   Very well done though


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

telbert said:


> I cant remember if Colonel Sebastian  Moran has already made an appearance in series 1&2,if not it may play a part in next episode.Roll on Sunday evening.


I assume Lord Moran filled that role.

Spotted the Case of Identity reference and the Giant Rat of Sumatra.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Reading the initial comments above it also seems like there was quite a bit for fans of the books, and I was well aware going into this series that they've pretty much exhausted my limited knowledge of the stories.


I read every single story (approx 1700 pages worth according to the kindle app) in preparation for this series


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I read every single story (approx 1700 pages worth according to the kindle app) in preparation for this series


Dedication I can but aspire to


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

Anyone get the reference about the husband emptying the bank account?


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## Bungle73 (Jan 1, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Dedication I can but aspire to


He did have two years to do it.


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## Voley (Jan 1, 2014)

Really enjoyed that. Particularly liked the fact that Martin Freeman decked Cumbersome Bendydick three times.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> He did have two years to do it.


I'm a slow reader


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## T & P (Jan 1, 2014)

Didn't think it was great, I have to say. Not crap, but not vintage either. Hopefully now that the re- introduction and how-he-did-it are out of the way, eps 2 and 3 will feature a proper cracking story.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 1, 2014)

NVP said:


> Really enjoyed that. Particularly liked the fact that Martin Freeman decked Cumbersome Bendydick three times.



In increasingly downmarket food places


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2014)

Best bit? Operation


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Missed the previous series, but tonight was the night we decided to switch the TV on for the first time since Obama was elected.

Sherlock is kind of a self-centred upper class twat isn't he?


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> tonight's mentioned the 'colossal schemes of baron mapertuis' - this was one of the cases mentioned in passing in the original canon


According to THE INTERNET he also appears in a Doctor Who/Holmes/Cthulu novel, which is a nicely baroque reference.


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## Chick Webb (Jan 1, 2014)

I've never watched it before, but it was on in the background here tonight.  I liked that they had a slash fanfiction joke in it.


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Missed the previous series, but tonight was the night we decided to switch the TV on for the first time since Obama was elected.
> 
> Sherlock is kind of a self-centred upper class twat isn't he?


Have you seen Breaking Bad?


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 1, 2014)

Santino said:


> According to THE INTERNET he also appears in a Doctor Who/Holmes/Cthulu novel, which is a nicely baroque reference.





> a Doctor Who/Holmes/Cthulu novel



 not to mention


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## telbert (Jan 1, 2014)

Santino said:


> I assume Lord Moran filled that role.


Oh fuck .Of  course.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Santino said:


> Have you seen Breaking Bad?



I watched the first couple of series on netflix and sure, he was also a repulsive character. 

The upper-class part makes Sherlock far more repulsive than the dodgy Chemistry teacher though. 

Do people actually like that character?


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## white rabbit (Jan 1, 2014)

No no no. Again. They wrapped themselves up in such an impossible ending that they had to spend the rest of the time rehearsing even more fantastical explanations presumably until we forgot to say "no fucking way!" I have been charmed in a way by the idiosyncrasies of these episodes. The ongoing joke about Holmes and Watson being presumed to be gay, the insertion of texting and technology generally, Lestrade as a modern flat-footed cop. But all of this became wallpaper to the irritation of the desperate twining of the plot to try to make it make sense. Which it it didn't. At all.


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## Chick Webb (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Do people actually like that character?


My sister thinks he's hot and awesome.  She would also agree that he's an upper class twat though.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Fuck him, I hope he gets killed painfully. (Which I know he won't 'cos he's the hero but even so, how could anyone with the least self-respect like that over-privileged twat)


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I watched the first couple of series on netflix and sure, he was also a repulsive character.
> 
> The upper-class part makes Sherlock far more repulsive than the dodgy Chemistry teacher though.
> 
> Do people actually like that character?


_Upper_ class? Really? Doesn't seem much of the landed gentry about him.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I watched the first couple of series on netflix and sure, he was also a repulsive character.
> 
> The upper-class part makes Sherlock far more repulsive than the dodgy Chemistry teacher though.
> 
> Do people actually like that character?


Maybe you would have liked him better if he was some sort of antichrist......sorry anarchist.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> _Upper_ class? Really? Doesn't seem much of the landed gentry about him.



He and his brother were mocking Watson for not being part of the same social stratum  "I meet him every Friday for fish and chips". 

He's a posh cunt and he colludes with his spook-scum brother so I hate him.


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## Chick Webb (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Fuck him, I hope he gets killed painfully. (Which I know he won't 'cos he's the hero but even so, how could anyone with the least self-respect like that over-privileged twat)


I used to know a girl who had a sexual fantasy about getting shouted at by Gordon Ramsay.  She also liked George Bush, especially in his cowboy hat. In other words, people who fancy Sherlock may well be perverts.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He and his brother were mocking Watson for not being part of the same social stratum. He's a cunt and I hate him.


Huh, must have missed that bit.

And yes, he's supposed to be a bit of a cunt, that's rather the point. But, you see, he's so damned _brilliant.
_
Quite like House in that way; I've always thought this series owes a clear debt to House.

Wut?


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Chick Webb said:


> I used to know a girl who had a sexual fantasy about getting shouted at by Gordon Ramsay.  She also liked George Bush, especially in his cowboy hat. In other words, people who fancy Sherlock may well be perverts.



Yeah that makes sense.


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## white rabbit (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He and his brother were mocking Watson for not being part of the same social stratum  "I meet him every Friday for fish and chips". He's a posh cunt and I hate him.


Though in the latest episode, his parents were introduced and they were decidedly ordinary.


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

You know who I hate? Luke Skywalker. Just because his dad's a big cheese in the Empire reckons he can restore peace to the galaxy. Cunt.


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

Don't get me started about Bertie Wooster.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

white rabbit said:


> Though in the latest episode, his parents were introduced and they were decidedly ordinary.



Sure but that makes the whole 'we're so posh and elite' thing even more offensive.

Face it, Sherlock is propaganda pushing the idea that public school / Oxbridge smart-arses are some sort of Ubermensch to whom normal rules don't apply.

Fuck that.


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

That shitbag Frodo. Just inherited his ring, didn't even work for it.


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

'Oh no, Mr Frodo sir, I'll fight this big spider, you have a lie down.'


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Face it, Sherlock is propaganda pushing the idea that public school / Oxbridge smart-arses are some sort of Ubermesnch to whom normal rules don't apply.


I thought the whole point was that Sherlock and Mycroft were exceptional, far beyond any education they received (and I don't know enough about the canon to know where they were educated).

C'mon, you're just bored on New Year's Day and grumpy about going back to work tomorrow, right?


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Santino said:


> That shitbag Frodo. Just inherited his ring, didn't even work for it.



Don't get me started ...

Epic Pooh


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Santino said:


> 'Oh no, Mr Frodo sir, I'll fight this big spider, you have a lie down.'



Yeah just so, Sam Gamgee is a sickeningly servile class traitor who makes Hudson from Upstairs Downstairs look like a committed Bolshevik.


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## white rabbit (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Sure but that makes the whole 'we're so posh and elite' thing even more offensive.
> 
> Face it, Sherlock is propaganda pushing the idea that public school / Oxbridge smart-arses are some sort of Ubermesnch to whom normal rules don't apply.
> 
> Fuck that.


I don't see it like that. Sherlock is a freak. He doesn't represent anyone. In fact, his cleverness also makes him antisocially strange. Mycroft is less abnormal in that way, but still pretty weird. Public school and Oxbridge types are taught to belong to a definite sensibility, but tend to be the product of a cookie-cutter mechanism nevertheless. Not nearly as clever as they think they are.


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## T & P (Jan 1, 2014)

You must really hate Batman...


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## white rabbit (Jan 1, 2014)

T & P said:


> You must really hate Batman...


Batman is the archetypal elitist.


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2014)

Batman's an anarchist who just happens to be a billionaire. Much misunderstood.


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## marty21 (Jan 1, 2014)

white rabbit said:


> Though in the latest episode, his parents were introduced and they were decidedly ordinary.


played by his actual parents


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## white rabbit (Jan 1, 2014)

Santino said:


> Batman's an anarchist who just happens to be a billionaire. Much misunderstood.


Batman is centrally about fear of the people. Only by the benevolence of elites can justice prevail. When that power is corrupted or destroyed, chaos ensues.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm curious as to how long until the "I don't shave for Sherlock" t-shirts come out...


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 1, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> I thought the whole point was that Sherlock and Mycroft were exceptional, far beyond any education they received (and I don't know enough about the canon to know where they were educated).



That is something not recorded in the original canon, and something there are a lot of theories / explanations bandied around subsequently.

In the original canon, there is no mention of school by SH, but a couple of mentions of his having attended college / university (in 'The Musgrave Ritual' and 'The Gloria Scott' - both cases recounted by SH to Watson as they happened before Holmes and Watson met) 

There is some debate as to which university (or possibly universities) SH studied at - he refers to Cambridge as 'this inhospitable town' in 'The Missing Three Quarter', but refers to the university town that Watson calls 'Camford' in 'The Creeping Man' as 'this charming town' - one theory is that on this basis, Camford can't be Cambridge and therefore must be Oxford, and the implication being that SH is an Oxford man.

In 'the Greek Interpreter' (in which Mycroft is first introduced to Watson), SH refers to his ancestors as 'country squires'


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## telbert (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Sure but that makes the whole 'we're so posh and elite' thing even more offensive.
> 
> Face it, Sherlock is propaganda pushing the idea that public school / Oxbridge smart-arses are some sort of Ubermensch to whom normal rules don't apply.
> 
> Fuck that.[/quo





Puddy_Tat said:


> That is something not recorded in the original canon, and something there are a lot of theories / explanations bandied around subsequently.
> 
> In the original canon, there is no mention of school by SH, but a couple of mentions of his having attended college / university (in 'The Musgrave Ritual' and 'The Gloria Scott' - both cases recounted by SH to Watson as they happened before Holmes and Watson met)
> 
> ...



Excellent post.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He and his brother were mocking Watson for not being part of the same social stratum  "I meet him every Friday for fish and chips"...


So you missed the bit where Holmes talks about his favourite fish and chip shop?


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## DexterTCN (Jan 1, 2014)

....and the bit where he's in his flat with a bag of chips?


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

He's propaganda for the innate superiority of posh twats. 

He's like George Osborne as a consulting detective.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He and his brother were mocking Watson for not being part of the same social stratum  "I meet him every Friday for fish and chips".


Having caught your edit, I'm pretty sure the joke there was simply the unlikely suggestion that Mycroft meets with Watson on a regular basis and has a close friendship with him, because the Holmes boys don't really do social interaction or play well with others.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He's propaganda for the innate superiority of posh twats.


Is it because he talks properly?

Because that's practically racism, y'know.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Having caught your edit, I'm pretty sure the joke there was simply the unlikely suggestion that Mycroft meets with Watson on a regular basis and has a close friendship with him, because the Holmes boys don't really do social interaction or play well with others.



Sure but there's also an obvious 'you think I keep in touch with your smelly little friend Baldrick?' vibe going on. 

Face it, they're both odious posh boys.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2014)

I think it's only obvious to "a certain type", if you know what I mean.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 1, 2014)

You want to watch TV series where posh-boy cops are heroes go ahead.

I don't think that's consistent with reality, so I think that anyone who buys into that bullshit is being conned.


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## zoooo (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Face it, they're both fairly sexy posh boys.


Quite right.


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## white rabbit (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He's propaganda for the innate superiority of posh twats.
> 
> He's like George Osborne as a consulting detective.


I think you're confusing social and economic class, here. There is nothing to fear from social difference. Personalising it gets a bit witch-trially, no? Do you even think that the way you appear is the way you are?


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 2, 2014)

zoooo said:


> Quite right.



You decision to substitute 'odious' for 'sexy' says something about both your sexual preferences (which aren't my business) and your ethics (forging other people's posts isn't on)


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## DexterTCN (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> You want to watch TV series where posh-boy cops are heroes go ahead.
> 
> I don't think that's consistent with reality, so I think that anyone who buys into that bullshit is being conned.


So why are you watching fiction?


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 2, 2014)

Fiction is fine in principle, but one of the modes of fiction is to deliver propaganda for the classes who can afford to commission fiction.

Which introduces the prospect of fiction as ruling class propaganda.

Which is what Sherlock looked like to me.

Please bear in mind here this is the first time in years we've switched the TV on and this happened to be what we watched, so it's very possible my perspective is radically different to that of someone who regularly watches TV.

Consider me a TV innocent giving you the honest reaction of someone not used to this particular sort of propaganda and hence perhaps more sensitive to it when he sees it.


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## white rabbit (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> You want to watch TV series where posh-boy cops are heroes go ahead.
> 
> I don't think that's consistent with reality, so I think that anyone who buys into that bullshit is being conned.


If you're after gritty social realism, Sherlock Holmes probably wouldn't be your first port of call. I doubt his persona makes it with any credibility into anyone's list of realistic sleuths. Though I dare say realistic sleuths are quite uncommon among that genre.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Fiction is fine in principle, but one of the modes of fiction is to deliver propaganda for the classes who can afford to commission fiction.
> 
> Which introduces the prospect of fiction as class propaganda.


Did you see his parents?  Did they look snobby?

They bought a lottery ticket.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 2, 2014)

white rabbit said:


> If you're after gritty social realism, Sherlock Holmes probably wouldn't be your first port of call. I doubt his persona makes it with any credibility into anyone's list of realistic sleuths. Though I dare say realistic sleuths are quite uncommon among that genre.


Magnum PI lived in a mansion.  He's out as well.


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## Kidda (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> You want to watch TV series where posh-boy cops are heroes go ahead.
> 
> I don't think that's consistent with reality, so I think that anyone who buys into that bullshit is being conned.



A genius detective and a Dr just disabled a bomb on a tube train heading for the Houses of Parliament after being reunited following one of them faking his own death. None of it is consistent with reality, that's the point. It's a TV show.

You can over think these things you know.

I loved Soldier Soldier and own every series made but it didn't make me want to go and join the army.


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## zoooo (Jan 2, 2014)

I'm so glad my class prejudices don't control what I enjoy on telly.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 2, 2014)

*shrug* you saw what you saw. 

I saw what I saw and I told you what that was.


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## zoooo (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> (forging other people's posts isn't on)


Apologies if it offended, didn't mean it to.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 2, 2014)

zoooo said:


> Apologies if it offended, didn't mean it to.



NP. I'm not easily offended. Other people might get really shitty about that kinda stuff though so I thought I'd mention it.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> *shrug* you saw what you saw.
> 
> I saw what I saw and I told you what that was.


Writers say (according to Steven King) that they write one thing and the reader reads another.


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## Bernie Gunther (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Don't get me started ...
> 
> Epic Pooh



As I said earlier ...

The linked Michael Moorcock essay pretty accurately captures my views about this sort of stuff.


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## white rabbit (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Fiction is fine in principle, but one of the modes of fiction is to deliver propaganda for the classes who can afford to commission fiction.
> 
> Which introduces the prospect of fiction as ruling class propaganda.
> 
> ...


Propaganda is a strong word for genre fiction, but I suppose you find it where you see it. I consider propaganda to be actively pursuing an objective, not just failing to correct assumptions. If that pursuit is supposed to be that the privately educated children of the wealthy are innately superior, it was very inefficiently done. For instance, it might have established that Holmes was privately educated, or that he was from a wealthy background. Something we might suppose, but not stated. In fact, actually undermined in the telling.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 2, 2014)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_Holmes#Early_life


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## Puddy_Tat (Jan 2, 2014)

Dunno really.

I'm inclined to reserve judgement on the Sherlock of the current TV series.

The original SH was perhaps a bit more ambivalent about class related matters, by the standards of the day.

It's fairly clear that he came from a reasonably privileged (although not aristocratic) background, as for him and - presumably - Mycroft to have gone to university at that time pretty much says this.

SH's patriotism - in terms of undertaking cases where the interests of the country were served - is shown in cases such as the Bruce-Partington Plans, His Last Bow etc - although in some, SH is less than deferential to the authority figures of the day.

Watson notes that SH refused a knighthood in 1902.

Also,



> he frequently refused his help to the powerful and wealthy where the problem made no appeal to his sympathies, while he would devote weeks of most intense application to the affairs of some humble client whose case presented those strange and dramatic qualities which appealed to his imagination and challenged his ingenuity.



- from 'Black Peter'


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 2, 2014)

Sure, but that's the original SH, who I feel was much more interesting than the current propaganda subject.

See e.g. 

http://www.bartitsu.org/index.php/the-martial-arts-of-bartitsu/


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 2, 2014)

I enjoyed that, it was entertaining, amusing and not overly complicated.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 2, 2014)

nobody has asked for a penny for the guy since 1916 

those kids would have demanded a whole pound and there would be no prop


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 2, 2014)

I enjoyed it, though i was confused when it cut from the train to Sherlock 'explaining' how he faked his death to that weird guy with the beard.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He's propaganda for the innate superiority of posh twats.
> 
> He's like George Osborne as a consulting detective.


Except, dismally, Osborne is all too real.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 2, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> As I said earlier ...
> 
> The linked Michael Moorcock essay pretty accurately captures my views about this sort of stuff.


That fucking Elric, sat on his throne with his drugs, the very nerve of the cunt...


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 2, 2014)

Was that Benedict's real parents?  Can't find a full cast list.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 2, 2014)

According to the interweb, yes his parents. And Mary is Freeman's RL gf


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> That fucking Elric, sat on his throne with his drugs, the very nerve of the cunt...



Heh, quite. 

Apologies to anyone offended by my drunken wind-up last night


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 2, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Was that Benedict's real parents?  Can't find a full cast list.


Yes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 2, 2014)

Why didn't he end up on trenzelor?


----------



## telbert (Jan 2, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Was that Benedict's real parents?  Can't find a full cast list.



 Yeah.She played Cassandra's mum in Only Fools.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 2, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Was that Benedict's real parents?  Can't find a full cast list.



Looked like Pauline Collins playing his mum.


----------



## T & P (Jan 3, 2014)

Here's a trailer for the next episode


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jan 3, 2014)




----------



## pesh (Jan 3, 2014)

i've loved all the Sherlocks except this one. hope the next 2 aren't shit.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 3, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Yes.


Aye, finally got it confirmed on Den of Geek.  He's on Graham Norton tonight.  I mean...not literally.


----------



## Maltin (Jan 3, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> He's on Graham Norton tonight.


Tonight's Graham Norton show is a compilation of highlights from the last series.


----------



## fogbat (Jan 3, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> He's propaganda for the innate superiority of posh twats.
> 
> He's like George Osborne as a consulting detective.



I'd watch that.

_This week, George faces his most fiendish mystery yet. He takes a load of coke and hires a prostitute, before crumpling in a corner and sobbing himself to sleep. Just like every week._


----------



## Maggot (Jan 3, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Heh, quite.
> 
> Apologies to anyone offended by my drunken wind-up last night


So you don't really think it's propaganda?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 3, 2014)

Maggot said:


> So you don't really think it's propaganda?



Not to the same extent as say 'Spooks' or '24' or something ...


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 4, 2014)

I didn't really take in much of what happened after the first two minutes, tbh.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 4, 2014)

I started watching this round a mate's and in the opening 30 minutes absolutely nothing happened so I switched it off. First time ever watching it. Is it usually that shit?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 4, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> I still think we're lucky to be getting Sherlock. Given the cast I imagine we won't be getting much more, so we should enjoy it while we can


Well colour me wrong!  


> Sherlock stars Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman were the first to know there would be a fourth series of the BBC1 detective drama, says co-creator Steven Moffat – even before himself or the BBC's commissioners...
> 
> "We had to inform the BBC that Martin and Benedict had commissioned a new series," said Moffat.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 4, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I started watching this round a mate's and in the opening 30 minutes absolutely nothing happened so I switched it off. First time ever watching it. Is it usually that shit?


As has been said above, a lot of this episode was dealing with stuff from the previous series, so possibly not the best one to start with; the other episodes focus more on cases and deducing.

Probably a good place to start would be, rather predictably, at the start. Episode 2 of series 1 is a bit of a dip, but still far from terrible. I think series 2 was pretty much solid throughout.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jan 4, 2014)

That was the first one I've seen and I enjoyed it a lot, even though I had to be quite staunch to allow all the death-faking stuff to wash over me. I'll download the previous series 

Incidentally there are sometimes newer yellow-pole _cars_ on the District and Hammersmith & City line now. But that doesn't clear up it being a new one in the CCTV then a green one in the tunnel  Don't suppose it matters to anyone other than Londonants though.


----------



## gosub (Jan 4, 2014)

Oh god, means you say in the culture section of Sunday times will be even more tedious for months.   They only just got over a route master bus incident


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 4, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> That was the first one I've seen and I enjoyed it a lot, even though I had to be quite staunch to allow all the death-faking stuff to wash over me. I'll download the previous series
> 
> Incidentally there are sometimes newer yellow-pole _cars_ on the District and Hammersmith & City line now. But that doesn't clear up it being a new one in the CCTV then a green one in the tunnel  Don't suppose it matters to anyone other than Londonants though.


http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-london-underground-lines-in-sherlock-are-all-wrong


----------



## wiskey (Jan 4, 2014)

I enjoyed it - surprised at how unsuitable for children it was though (the bonfire scene). 

Cumberwatsit is risking serious overexposure though and should do a few more series of Cabin Pressure


----------



## wiskey (Jan 4, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-london-underground-lines-in-sherlock-are-all-wrong


Superb


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 5, 2014)

Are there only three epiosodes this season? FFS!


----------



## mrsfran (Jan 5, 2014)

It's the same number of episodes as the last season. And the one before that.


----------



## Espresso (Jan 5, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Are there only three epiosodes this season? FFS!



I think every series has been three episodes, no?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 5, 2014)

Espresso said:


> I think every series has been three episodes, no?


I don't really remember.

3 episodes is shit! What's the point of that? All this fuss over something that will end next week!


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 5, 2014)

Espresso said:


> I think every series has been three episodes, no?


Yes.



Awesome Wells said:


> I don't really remember.
> 
> 3 episodes is shit! What's the point of that? All this fuss over something that will end next week!


But each episode *is* 90 minutes long, and that's 90 minutes of actual programme. That's feature film length.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2014)

The biggest problem with the last episode was that the bad guy seemed to have no particular reason for blowing up parliament.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 5, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> The biggest problem with the last episode was that the bad guy seemed to have no particular reason for blowing up parliament.


He's a bad guy. That's the sort of thing bad guys do.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 5, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don't really remember.
> 
> 3 episodes is shit! What's the point of that? All this fuss over something that will end next week!


Think of it as 3 films. Mainly because that's what it is.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 5, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don't really remember.
> 
> 3 episodes is shit! What's the point of that? All this fuss over something that will end next week!


you only have to look at what stephen moffat does with a 13 episode series to know that Sherlock is much, much safer in short bursts.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 5, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> The biggest problem with the last episode was that the bad guy seemed to have no particular reason for blowing up parliament.


Look like he may have been testing Sherlock.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Look like he may have been testing Sherlock.



But the train geek bloke did most of the work, spotting the missing carriage and finding the abandoned tube line and so on.


----------



## gosub (Jan 5, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> The biggest problem with the last episode was that the bad guy seemed to have no particular reason for blowing up parliament.


  you need a reason to get rid of the malodorous cunts these days?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2014)

gosub said:


> you need a reason to get rid of the malodorous cunts these days?



I don't, but respectable cunts in suits usually think rather differently.


----------



## Maggot (Jan 5, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I started watching this round a mate's and in the opening 30 minutes absolutely nothing happened so I switched it off.


Loads of things happened in the first 30 minutes. Are you sure you switched the telly on to start with?


----------



## T & P (Jan 5, 2014)

In the first two series, the middle episode was the weak link (though I still enjoyed them). Let's hope it's a different story this time round. Do we know who's written this one?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 5, 2014)

T & P said:


> In the first two series, the middle episode was the weak link (though I still enjoyed them). Let's hope it's a different story this time round. Do we know who's written this one?



Stephen Thompson, who did The Blind Banker and The Reichenbach Fall. According to wiki, Moffatt and Gatiss wrote one scene, presumably an "arc" one.


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 5, 2014)

Fucks sake, so much tedious spoddery on this thread. It's bloody TV, not the Transport for London online journey planner.


----------



## Espresso (Jan 5, 2014)

I covet Mrs Hudson's wedding hat.


----------



## Cid (Jan 5, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> Fucks sake, so much tedious spoddery on this thread. It's bloody TV, not the Transport for London online journey planner.



Tbh journey planner probably _would_ send you on a similar route.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't like it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

While Sherlock's speech was very, very good, can we get to a bloody case please?!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

Yes, yes, can we please get back to the good old days when we weren't supposed to care about you and just enjoyed watching you SOLVE FUCKING CRIMES


----------



## Balbi (Jan 5, 2014)

*yawn*


----------



## telbert (Jan 5, 2014)

What the fuck is this shit?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

It's the second episode. It's always the damned second episode.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 5, 2014)

telbert said:


> What the fuck is this shit?


It's shit, that's what it is. How can a programme that was once so great have turned to such crap?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> you only have to look at what stephen moffat does with a 13 episode series to know that Sherlock is much, much safer in short bursts.



Just give it to Gatiss. He seems to know what's whatson.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 5, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> It's the second episode. It's always the damned second episode.


The other second episodes were at least watchable and a had a crime to solve. This is just crap.


----------



## telbert (Jan 5, 2014)

WHERES THE FUCKING MYSTERY TO BE SOLVED?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 5, 2014)

At what point does Mary get murdered or prove to be Moriarty's wife or something.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

Thing is, I don't think it's crap, exactly, it's just not why we watch Sherlock. It's still reasonably entertaining, but everyone's just waiting for them to start working on a case. And they have 30 fucking minutes to do it 

They're having too much fun, they're enjoying themselves too much, and I imagine they haven't spent as much time on this series as they did the first two. It's much easier to write funny little skits rather than a complex mystery.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

I bet there was some kind of social media thing about who gets to be one of those women. Bet they're not all with Equity


----------



## telbert (Jan 5, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Thing is, I don't think it's crap, exactly, it's just not why we watch Sherlock. It's still reasonably entertaining, but everyone's just waiting for them to start working on a case. And they have 30 fucking minutes to do it
> 
> They're having too much fun, they're enjoying themselves too much, and I imagine they haven't spent as much time on this series as they did the first two. It's much easier to write funny little skits rather than a complex mystery.


Fucking bang on


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 5, 2014)

Mary MORstAN?!?

Naked Lara Pulver!

Bazinga!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 5, 2014)

Am I watching Benedict Cumberbatch or Matt Smith?


----------



## telbert (Jan 5, 2014)

Am i watching fucking derren brown?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

Pfft, I can do a better spin than that. He was all over the place


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 5, 2014)

Am i watching the inside of my eyelids?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

Once you get over the fact it's not going to be a 'proper' episode I think you can enjoy it. It was good for what it was, so long as that's what you're expecting I think.

It's _ferociously_ self-indulgent, but they've just about earned enough currency to do it. Better be back to fucking normal next week though...


----------



## telbert (Jan 5, 2014)

Brilliant.The way they managed to wedge 10 minutes decent fucking story into an hour and a half.Truly amazing.


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 5, 2014)

Two episodes that are all over the place in a row, I'm hoping this isn't a new trend.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 5, 2014)

Gutted that it's gone shit.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 5, 2014)

i found it watchable, some nice set pieces and i lolled a few times, but reallllly irritating that they shoehorned the actual case into 20 minutes out of 90.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

As I said earlier I'm not actually that familiar with the books, they haven't run out of big cases already, have they? Just thought it might be one explanation for why they were fleshing things out.

Doesn't help they keep running through other cases in bloody montages!


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2014)

It was odd as fuck but I stayed with it till the end. I think I liked it.


----------



## T & P (Jan 5, 2014)

Can someone explain the 



Spoiler



physics of stabbing someone through their belt without their noticing? I had expected Sherlock to reveal the blade was impregnated with anesthetic or something. I can't believe neither victim would feel it



FWIW I liked the episode. For 2/3rds of it I thought it was going to be a collection of anecdotes so I was glad to see it was all part of the case. Still, it's nowhere near the level of last series.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

wayward bob said:


> i found it watchable, some nice set pieces and i lolled a few times, but reallllly irritating that they shoehorned the actual case into 20 minutes out of 90.


Aye, exactly.

Also, was Sherlock getting a bit too like normal people there  Part of me would like him to, but another part of me very much wouldn't (same thing happened to House - again it's all just so derivative  ). Hopefully him walking away at the end will get things back to Sherlock's normal.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 5, 2014)

Forgot it was on tonight  You all seem to hate it.

*cues up iPlayer*

Bet it's GREAT.


----------



## telbert (Jan 5, 2014)

Gatiss and Moffat need to go and read the fucking canon again.Then have a fucking word with themselves.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

T & P said:


> Can someone explain the
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I _think_ the point was that the belt is so tight your body is already reacting to that, and so doesn't feel a small blade. Or something. This is seriously shonky biology, but I there's something where your body can only react to and send signals to your brain about a certain amount of sensations. Or something. Yeah, you might want to wait for someone else to come along...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Forgot it was on tonight  You all seem to hate it.
> 
> *cues up iPlayer*
> 
> Bet it's GREAT.


As I said above, I think you'll enjoy it so long as you know it's going to be an episode about Sherlock and John (and Mary, a bit), rather than them solving any crimes. Enjoy spending time in their company and you should be fine.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jan 5, 2014)

T & P said:


> Can someone explain the
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Presumably 



Spoiler



it's supposed to be a combination of an extremely thin, razor sharp blade and an extremely tight-to-the-point-of-cutting-off-circulation military belt. Although you would think that might interfere with standing still for 8 hours.


----------



## trashpony (Jan 5, 2014)

This was a bad episode to choose for giving it another try, wasn't it?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Presumably
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I don't know, it's a well-documented fact that blood collecting in certain areas of the body assists in standing to attention.

*ahem*


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

trashpony said:


> This was a bad episode to choose for giving it another try, wasn't it?


Which was your first try? I'd recommend checking out the first series if you haven't already, it's what got the rest of us hooked


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 5, 2014)

thing is i don't dislike it still, i'll be watching the last ep, just keeping my expectations in check.


----------



## muscovyduck (Jan 5, 2014)

The case wasn't given enough time. Too difficult to keep up with,  especially because you're expecting unrelated anecdotes rather than a large plot.


----------



## trashpony (Jan 5, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Which was your first try? I'd recommend checking out the first series if you haven't already, it's what got the rest of us hooked


I think I watched the 1st EP of the 1st series and thought it was silly. I'm not much given to whimsy and this feels very whimsical to mr


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2014)

Sherlock doesn't _do_ whimsy


----------



## TikkiB (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't trust Mary. She keeps using spy-ey terminology; "skip code" last week, and "running" someone this. It's a bit too long-arc-moffaty for my liking. 

(although i did enjoy this week's silliness)


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 5, 2014)

I loved it. But then I am a huge fan of Press Gang.

(also always happy to spend 90 minutes perving over Sherlock)


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 5, 2014)

TikkiB said:


> I don't trust Mary. She keeps using spy-ey terminology; "skip code" last week, and "running" someone this. It's a bit too long-arc-moffaty for my liking.
> 
> (although i did enjoy this week's silliness)


I thought after sherlock's on-screen 'sizing her up' thoughts that she was going to turn out to be a wrongun.  Maybe not though - because it all seems too lovely.

She'll have to die instead, i suppose.


----------



## wiskey (Jan 5, 2014)

Once he'd actually started his speech I got more engaged with it, I have to say BC is actually a very good actor. The first half an hour was bloody hard work but by the end I got into it a bit more.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 5, 2014)

40 minutes in and it's worth it for the stag night bits alone 


Also, is it possible to be in love with a coat?


----------



## belboid (Jan 5, 2014)

I dont know what everyone's complaining about, I thought that was a fine episode. The 'unsolved' cases were clearly going to come up again in the big picture, and it's all set up for it to be truly tragic ending next week. Cracking


----------



## wiskey (Jan 5, 2014)

She dies in the books. 

Isn't the woman who plays Mary actually Freeman's wife?


----------



## Espresso (Jan 5, 2014)

wiskey said:


> Isn't the woman who plays Mary actually Freeman's wife?



They're not married but they've been together a while and have two kids.


----------



## wiskey (Jan 6, 2014)

Espresso said:


> They're not married but they've been together a while and have two kids.


Oh OK.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 6, 2014)

Wouldn't it be a bit early for Mary to die? They've only just got married! If they are making a fourth series I'd think it would happen then. Although...


Spoiler: Spoiler for series 2



...they did kill off Moriarty pretty damn sharpish. Still think that was a shame, I rather enjoyed him.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 6, 2014)

depends on how much time passes between episodes/series.  Dead pregnant Mary = tragedy.  Dead Mary leaving John with the child = two men and a fucking baby.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 6, 2014)

Oh god, that's right up Moffatt's streett, isn't it?  Una stubbs protesting. Sherlock holding the babe at arms' length wiith wrinkled nose.... ack!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

Oh stop moaning you bunch of sillies. That was a fantastic episode.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 6, 2014)

Much improved from last week, enjoyed it.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 6, 2014)

Hasn't Martin Freeman shrunk since he took on the role of the Hobbit. He looked ridiculously tiny in a lot of scenes.


----------



## spartacus mills (Jan 6, 2014)

I loved series 1 and 2 but I'm hating series 3. Did I over-rate the first two?
This is sub Jonathan Creek/Randall and Hopkirk type stuff...


----------



## fizzerbird (Jan 6, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hasn't Martin Freeman shrunk since he took on the role of the Hobbit. He looked ridiculously tiny in a lot of scenes.



Yeah I thought that too! Maybe it's the camera angle but he does appear very small in most scenes


----------



## TikkiB (Jan 6, 2014)

fizzerbird said:


> Yeah I thought that too! Maybe it's the camera angle but he does appear very small in most scenes


BC is very tall?


----------



## TikkiB (Jan 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh stop moaning you bunch of sillies. That was a fantastic episode.


not moaning, just... concerned..


----------



## fizzerbird (Jan 6, 2014)

TikkiB said:


> BC is very tall?



BC is very tall but MF appears small even in scenes without BC present...even the furniture and props seem to make him appear small by comparison.


----------



## TikkiB (Jan 6, 2014)

fizzerbird said:


> Yeah I thought that too! Maybe it's the camera angle but he does appear very small in most scenes


True, and there was one scene, can't remember which where he did look rather hobbitty in shape


----------



## Voley (Jan 6, 2014)

I enjoyed it. And the one before, too.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 6, 2014)

TikkiB said:


> BC is very tall?


Not as tall as people think


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 6, 2014)

That was not a great episode. Not even 90 minutes worth of dullness either!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> depends on how much time passes between episodes/series.  Dead pregnant Mary = tragedy.  Dead Mary leaving John with the child = two men and a fucking baby.


The baby wasn't conceived in the Tardis was it?


----------



## Thora (Jan 6, 2014)

I enjoyed it, I think some of you are expecting too much.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 6, 2014)

Thora said:


> I enjoyed it, I think some of you are expecting too much.


I don't know if that's fair, I think people were expecting it to maintain the standard and principles of the first two series; it's not like the expectations are entirely without merit.


----------



## belboid (Jan 6, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> I don't know if that's fair, I think people were expecting it to maintain the standard and principles of the first two series;


which it has.  All its done is break from a boring one case per episode format.  But that is too much form the traditionalists of urban it seems


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 6, 2014)

It is all very conservative to not like change





Runs


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 6, 2014)

Half way through episode 2 on iplayer, and can't decide whether to finish it.

So far, much play of SH's lack of social skills. Very little Holmesian sleuthing.

Does it get better?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

Limejuice said:


> Half way through episode 2 on iplayer, and can't decide whether to finish it.
> 
> So far, much play of SH's lack of social skills. Very little Holmesian sleuthing.
> 
> Does it get better?


No.


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> No.


Thank you.

*gets back to work*


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

Limejuice said:


> So far, much play of SH's lack of social skills. Very little Holmesian sleuthing.


His lack of social skills and his sleuthing are two sides of the same coin. This episode showed us that brilliantly.


----------



## T & P (Jan 6, 2014)

Limejuice said:


> Half way through episode 2 on iplayer, and can't decide whether to finish it.
> 
> So far, much play of SH's lack of social skills. Very little Holmesian sleuthing.
> 
> Does it get better?


Yes it does get better, IMO at least. A case finally materialises, and you realise those seemly random anecdotes and cases in the first half of the episode are linked to the problem at hand.

Not the most thrilling mystery Sherlock has faced, but a case nonetheless.

ETA: and I suspect there are clues in this episode about events yet to come as well. As someone mentioned earlier, I suspect the sizing up look Sherlock gives Maria in this episode might prove to be significant...


----------



## spartacus mills (Jan 6, 2014)

belboid said:


> which it has.  All its done is break from a boring one case per episode format.  But that is too much form the traditionalists of urban it seems



Nah, from the first episode of the first series it's not been a show for traditionalists. It was a good modern twist on the old stories. Series three is an unfunny comedy caper with less mystery than an episode of Scooby Doo.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 6, 2014)

belboid said:


> which it has.  All its done is break from a boring one case per episode format.  But that is too much form the traditionalists of urban it seems



It's only the 7th episode, it's not as though the format was getting stale.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

What I don't get is why do an episode like this keeping ep 1 of this series in mind? Is everything going to be solved in the next ep then? Seems a bit rushed.


----------



## gosub (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> What I don't get is why do an episode like this keeping ep 1 of this series in mind? Is everything going to be solved in the next ep then? Seems a bit rushed.


  Bomb on train disarmed, bloke arrested.   Done. dusted.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

gosub said:


> Bomb on train disarmed, bloke arrested.   Done. dusted.


It seemed to set things up for more than that tho?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 6, 2014)

Yeah, there was that short bit of the guy with glasses looking at some screens, which I believe was insinuating some kind of mastermind behind the train plot.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yeah, there was that short bit of the guy with glasses looking at some screens, which I believe was insinuating some kind of mastermind behind the train plot.


And 



Spoiler



Who put Watson in the bonfire? And why? Or did I miss something?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> And
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope, I think that was a question Sherlock asked as well.


----------



## T & P (Jan 6, 2014)

I think all will be revealed in ep 3. It's said to be a much darker one.

Trailer is out, btw:


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2014)

I loved episode 1.  I loved episode 2.  They were both great.

Episode 2 was clever, sentimental, intriguing and fucking hilarious.  I don't know what more you want, frankly.

And I loved the fact that episode 1 was clearly taking the piss out of all the internet speculation as to how Holmes survived the fall.  One tweet quoted on page 3 of the Times (ffs!) said that the tweeter was fed up of the pissing around and wanted to know "how he really did it".  Well hold on to your hats, cowboys, because here's the thing: _he didn't really do it_.  It's fiction.  It isn't a real thing to really do.  I think it's _better _that we are left with an unspoken piece of genius rather than a shit resolution.  Make it up in your heads, that's just as real as any other explanation.


----------



## belboid (Jan 6, 2014)

spartacus mills said:


> Nah, from the first episode of the first series it's not been a show for traditionalists. It was a good modern twist on the old stories. Series three is an unfunny comedy caper with less mystery than an episode of Scooby Doo.


it was a fairly traditional take on old tales, just moved to a different era. but it was still a straightforward one episode, one mystery (plus bit of overarching plot).  this ones a bit different.



mwgdrwg said:


> It's only the 7th episode, it's not as though the format was getting stale.


best to move on before it does then!


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

kabbes said:


> I loved episode 1.  I loved episode 2.  They were both great.
> 
> Episode 2 was clever, sentimental, intriguing and fucking hilarious.  I don't know what more you want, frankly.
> 
> And I loved the fact that episode 1 was clearly taking the piss out of all the internet speculation as to how Holmes survived the fall.  One tweet quoted on page 3 of the Times (ffs!) said that the tweeter was fed up of the pissing around and wanted to know "how he really did it".  Well hold on to your hats, cowboys, because here's the thing: _he didn't really do it_.  It's fiction.  It isn't a real thing to really do.  I think it's _better _that we are left with an unspoken piece of genius rather than a shit resolution.  Make it up in your heads, that's just as real as any other explanation.



Ep 2 had some great moments (mostly the funny and sentimental ones - the best man's speech was ace), but the mystery was rubbish. RUBBISH. As if that was even remotely possible to do. Yeh yea fiction bla bla.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Ep 2 had some great moments (mostly the funny and sentimental ones - the best man's speech was ace), but the mystery was rubbish. RUBBISH. As if that was even remotely possible to do. Yeh yea fiction bla bla.


The mystery was great -- three apparently unlinked cases all coming together.  OK, the blade thing was a bit OTT, but I can suspend a bit of disbelief for that.  The mayfly man stuff was brilliant.  BRILLIANT.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

kabbes said:


> The mystery was great -- three apparently unlinked cases all coming together.  OK, the blade thing was a bit OTT, but I can suspend a bit of disbelief for that.  The mayfly man stuff was brilliant.  BRILLIANT.


Mayfly man was ok. The blade thingie was fucking bullcock. Totally ruined it for me.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2014)

What, it's worse than Sherlock knowing that somebody was in a particular factory in London because he has chalk, vegetation, asphalt, brick and chocolate on his boot?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

kabbes said:


> What, it's worse than Sherlock knowing that somebody was in a particular factory in London because he has chalk, vegetation, asphalt, brick and chocolate on his boot?


Yes!


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2014)

What can I say?  He solves the crime.  And John Watson saves the man.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.


----------



## captainmission (Jan 6, 2014)

I'm not getting the complaint about not having a good mystery. The mysteries in this programme have always been a load of convoluted bobbins to demonstrate sherlock's a brilliant arrogant show off or create conflict. It's never been a play along at home murder mystery. This episode just found different circumstance for him to be a brilliant arrogant show off.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree I'm afraid.


Well that's this website up the fuck then.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

kabbes said:


> Well that's this website up the fuck then.


I'm sure we can have pointless spats about other low-level trivia.


----------



## captainmission (Jan 6, 2014)

also is irene adler going to be in the next one? would seem odd just to get her back for a 3 sec cameo in this episode.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> I'm sure we can have pointless spats about other low-level trivia.


Oh no we can't.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

kabbes said:


> Oh no we can't.


That's the spirit.


----------



## poului (Jan 6, 2014)

I wanted to see an episode of _Sherlock_, not some fucking absurd buddy movie.

A perfect example of why the BBC can never make another truly great series ever again. Could you imagine if Breaking Bad had an episode like this wedged in the middle of a season?


----------



## Cid (Jan 8, 2014)

All that just for the pun on sodding



Spoiler



The sign of three


----------



## Cid (Jan 8, 2014)

poului said:


> I wanted to see an episode of _Sherlock_, not some fucking absurd buddy movie.
> 
> A perfect example of why the BBC can never make another truly great series ever again. Could you imagine if Breaking Bad had an episode like this wedged in the middle of a season?



I quite enjoyed it. However this be explained by the fact I watched a bit of it over my flatmate's shoulder and decided that a bottle of wine and a couple of 8% ciders were needed before I watched the whole thing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2014)

Caught up with episode 1. What a disjointed shambles. Don't know if I can be bothered with episode 2 after that.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Caught up with episode 1. What a disjointed shambles. Don't know if I can be bothered with episode 2 after that.


If you thought ep 1 was bad....


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 8, 2014)

I was vaguely impressed by the way episode 2 was put together, but I'd still rather have just watched a proper mystery-solving episode instead.



Spoiler



And the bit with Sherlock and Watson pissed fell completely flat and didn't contribute anything. I supposed it was thrown in to account for Sherlock's delayed realisation that the woman with the phantom boyfriend knew about Watson's wedding, but it was all a bit too obvious what the important clues were.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> If you thought ep 1 was bad....


Oh dear.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 8, 2014)

Drop Sherlock for The Bridge II on BBC 4. Much better Holmes/Watson rapport with the two leads.
Sadly Sherlock has become rather mundane.


----------



## belboid (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> If you thought ep 1 was bad....


Then you'll be pleased by how much better episode two is!


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

belboid said:


> Then you'll be pleased by how much better episode two is!


God no.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 8, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yeah, there was that short bit of the guy with glasses looking at some screens, which I believe was insinuating some kind of mastermind behind the train plot.


 
Moriarty? Holmes doesn't have to be the only mastermind that can escape death.


----------



## belboid (Jan 8, 2014)

flypanam said:


> Moriarty? Holmes doesn't have to be the only mastermind that can escape death.


it'd be crap if it was Moriarty.  He only gets a mention in two original stories, he should be dealt with similarly in any updating, imo.  Unkillable master nemeses are tedious


----------



## Espresso (Jan 8, 2014)

flypanam said:


> Moriarty? Holmes doesn't have to be the only mastermind that can escape death.



I thought it looked like Mycroft. I don't think he's a baddie and even if they're dressing him up to make us think he is, I doubt he will turn out to be a baddie.
If it's him.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 8, 2014)

belboid, I think your right but I think Moffat and the other bloke will try and make something more of the rivalry between Holmes and Moriarty, which is not very much in keeping with the stories but for an audience that has been fed a diet of "Good" vs "Evil" it makes sense.

Anyway as much as I like Andrew Scotts  characterisation of Moriarty as essentially a bored gamer, he lacked a mathematicians depth.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 8, 2014)

flypanam said:


> Moriarty? Holmes doesn't have to be the only mastermind that can escape death.





belboid said:


> it'd be crap if it was Moriarty.  He only gets a mention in two original stories, he should be dealt with similarly in any updating, imo.  Unkillable master nemeses are tedious





Spoiler



Um, did you not _see_ the last episode of series 2. Hell, or the first episode of this series?!


----------



## ddraig (Jan 8, 2014)

haven't watched any of this but my mum said there were a load of Cardiff pubs in it
worth watching or is that a silly question on such a thread?
can i just pick up from start of this series or would it no make sense?
ta


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 8, 2014)

Feel like moffats lost it.. Ep.2 was bitty with annoying flashbacks (sign of weak writing).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2014)

Fucking hell, that was tedious shite. I made it 26 minutes into episode 2, which were all unworthy of my attention. I gave up the will to live as the best man speech dragged on and on and on and on. Then, blessed relief, I switched off. It was only unfounded hope that kept me watching that long. 

I won't be watching the next one.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Fucking hell, that was tedious shite. I made it 26 minutes into episode 2, which were all unworthy of my attention. I gave up the will to live as the best man speech dragged on and on and on and on. Then, blessed relief, I switched off. It was only unfounded hope that kept me watching that long.
> 
> I won't be watching the next one.


The speech was the best bit IMO


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Fucking hell, that was tedious shite. I made it 26 minutes into episode 2, which were all unworthy of my attention. I gave up the will to live as the best man speech dragged on and on and on and on. Then, blessed relief, I switched off. It was only unfounded hope that kept me watching that long.
> 
> I won't be watching the next one.


But the next one looks like it might be quite good, judging from the trailer.  Both the previous series finale episodes have been excellent.


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 8, 2014)

I quite liked episode 2
not my favourite though
the series  focusing more on the characters rather than more traditional cases the whole way through doesn't make it bad
i feel like moftiss were trying to focus more on the younger members of the fandom, ie with all the 'feels' 
but i do get why some people may not have liked it
hopefully the series finale will be a lot more like Sherlock has been in the past


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> The speech was the best bit IMO


 How dire could the rest *be*!


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> How dire could the rest *be*!


Luckily you'll never know now.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> but i do get why some people may not have liked it


Is it the fact that it was unmitigated shite that tipped you off?


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 8, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> I quite liked episode 2
> not my favourite though
> the series  focusing more on the characters rather than more traditional cases the whole way through doesn't make it bad
> i feel like moftiss were trying to focus more on the younger members of the fandom, ie with all the 'feels'
> ...


we used to have a poster that set everything out like poetry.  can't remember his name - but i think he got banned for it.

Welcome, but please use punctuation instead of line breaks.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> we used to have a poster
> that set everything out like poetry
> can't remember his name
> but i think
> ...



FTFY


----------



## Greebo (Jan 8, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> we used to have a poster that set everything out like poetry.  can't remember his name - but i think he got banned for it. <snip>


Donna ferrentes, I think.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 8, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Donna ferrentes, I think.


No, not him.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

Is it impossible to do centered/justified text any more?


----------



## Greebo (Jan 8, 2014)

Centring this text
is something which greatly vexed
me.​TruXta you need to select "align center" in the alignment menu.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Is it impossible to do centered/justified text any more?



No it isn't.​


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

Didn't see the "alignment" button - that was different before the upgrade wasn't it?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

This is by far the most annoying tho.​


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 8, 2014)

Are
you​sure​about​that?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

Yes.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jan 8, 2014)

well​this
thread​took
an​unexpected
turn​


----------



## Cid (Jan 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> it'd be crap if it was Moriarty.  He only gets a mention in two original stories, he should be dealt with similarly in any updating, imo.  Unkillable master nemeses are tedious



The antagonist in ep 3 is revealed in the trailer... Based on another character from the books (extensive spoiler):



Spoiler



Charles Augustus Milverton (Magnussen on the trailer), master blackmailer... Holmes finds him repugnant, turns his stomach. In the books they're commissioned to recover stolen letters, disguises are involved. Milverton is eventually killed by a previous victim posing as a maid. Holmes stops Watson intervening (they're behind a curtain) and refuses to help Lestrade when he approaches him about finding Milverton's killer.

There's speculation that one of the telegrams read out at the wedding is from Magnussen; seems pretty likely (it's the 'poppet' one that mentions Mary's family and is signed CAM, Watson asks whether she's feeling ok). The husband of the maid/victim committed suicide (hence her pissed-offness), so there's some potential for a pretty dark plot along those lines. Presumably lots of bits from the other 2 eps will be revealed as part of the blackmail etc.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2014)

I technically enjoyed the second episode but it was a bit silly.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 9, 2014)

Center aligning text
is more fun
than watching episode 2
of Sherlock
​


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 9, 2014)

The new "baddie" is interestingly played by Lars Mikkelsen, brother of Mads who plays "Hannibal" in the tv series of the same name.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 9, 2014)

S☼I said:


> The new "baddie" is interestingly played by Lars Mikkelsen, brother of Mads who plays "Hannibal" in the tv series of the same name.


I accidentally caught the trailer, he's also from the first series of The Killing, isn't he? Was he in Borgen too? These Danes, all look the same to me 

Definitely not Alex Ferguson though


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 9, 2014)

Never watched The Killing but wiki tells me it is he. And if your knowledge of Danish actors is limited to one actor - or the two mentioned above - it's no wonder they look alike


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 9, 2014)

S☼I said:


> The new "baddie" is interestingly played by Lars Mikkelsen, brother of Mads who plays "Hannibal" in the tv series of the same name.


Hannibal was one of the best things on tv last year.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 9, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Hannibal was one of the best things on tv last year.



Yep. Took me longer than most people I spoke to about it to appreciate Mads Mikkelsen - think it was cos Tony Hopkins' performance was so good I got obsessed with it for months after watching Silence of the Lambs - but by the end he was utterly convincing. He had arguably a harder job, too, having to play Hannibal "undetected" whereas Hopkins could ham it up and be as scary as he felt like. Hugh Dancy, though, is the star of that show. Much more like the Graham I had in my head when I read the books.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 9, 2014)

Yup...I think I've only jumped twice in the last ten years when watching anything...both of them were during Hannibal.  The photography is brilliant too.


----------



## wtfftw (Jan 9, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> No, not him.


sesquipedalian


----------



## Libertad (Jan 9, 2014)

wtfftw said:


> sesquipedalian



Indeed

'Twas 

He

Gushing

Yet

Coy 

And 

Twee


----------



## telbert (Jan 9, 2014)

Cid said:


> The antagonist in ep 3 is revealed in the trailer... Based on another character from the books (extensive spoiler):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here it is:http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-3-his-last-vow-trailer-released-9041035.html
Gotta say it looks a lot better.


----------



## T & P (Jan 9, 2014)

telbert said:


> Here it is:http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-3-his-last-vow-trailer-released-9041035.html
> Gotta say it looks a lot better.


Unlike many people I've enjoyed this series. However it could have been better in the suspense & devilish cases to solve department. And while it'd be great if ep III turns out to be really gripping and on a par with past series, it'll be really frustrating to then be left hanging for another two years until the next fix.

Episodes I & II would have worked a lot better if this was a five-episode series. As things stand we're not going to get enough puzzling case-solving action for my liking. Series II by contrast was pretty close to perfect IMO.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 10, 2014)

Some musings on Mary.  (contains spoilers for first two episodes)

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/sherlock/28787/what-do-we-know-about-sherlock’s-mary-morstan


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 10, 2014)

Libertad said:


> Indeed
> 
> 'Twas
> 
> ...



Amended 
to the correct
 format​


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 10, 2014)

How do you guys view the various Sherlock ships?


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> How do you guys view the various Sherlock ships?


the whats?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> How do you guys view the various Sherlock ships?


There are crime-solving sea-going vessels?


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 10, 2014)

Lol



			
				Urban Dictionary said:
			
		

> ship
> N: Short for romantic relationship, popularized in fanfiction circles.
> 
> V: To endorse a romantic relationship.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 10, 2014)

Santino said:


> According to THE INTERNET he also appears in a Doctor Who/Holmes/Cthulu novel, which is a nicely baroque reference.


All consuming fire?

i remember that being  really  quite good.


----------



## moon (Jan 10, 2014)

has been a huge disappointment so far, I also hoped it would be more than 3 episodes...
hmm am definitely getting an xbox now..


----------



## kittyP (Jan 10, 2014)

Hannibal was fucking excellent. It took me a couple of watches of the first episode to get going with it. 
At times it was also incredibly fucking slow. I wanted to shout "somebody say or do something ffs!"
But it was a testament to how good it was really coz despite that it was still amazing.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> There are crime-solving sea-going vessels?



No, they are loosley strung together pontoons made of old good ships, they are directionless and nauseatingly self indulgent.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> Lol


I have no view whatsoever on the various relationships of this incarnation of Sherlock. (I was hitherto unaware that the noun relationship had a diminutive version. I heartily disapprove of any move to make it a verb).


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> Lol


aah, so are we heading into the dreaded 'fanfic' where writers create fictional sexual liaisons between Sherlock & Watson etc?  

If so, I think less than nothing of them.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 10, 2014)

IN answer to The Scientist question.

I think they have softened how Sherlock deals with other people too much.
They have made him too nice.
Those around him are supposed to like him despite how mean and unsociable he is, not make him nicer.
I actually think the programme Elementary does this a lot better.

ETA: Or did you mean the slight romantic elements?


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 10, 2014)

Come back Clive Merrison, all is forgiven.


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 10, 2014)

kittyP said:


> IN answer to The Scientist question.
> 
> I think they have softened how Sherlock deals with other people too much.
> They have made him too nice.
> ...


I really just meant any pairings you would like the idea of with the characters. Shipping doesn't nevessarily have to be true to canon.
But I suppose it is more commonplace on YA fanforums/twitter/tumblr than on a place like this.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> I really just meant any pairings you would like the idea of with the characters. Shipping doesn't nevessarily have to be true to canon.
> But I suppose it is more commonplace on YA fanforums/twitter/tumblr than on a place like this.



Oh right, OK, I have no opinion on that.


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 10, 2014)

belboid said:


> aah, so are we heading into the dreaded 'fanfic' where writers create fictional sexual liaisons between Sherlock & Watson etc?
> 
> If so, I think less than nothing of them.


 What's wrong with lemony fanfic? :O
"fictional sexual liasons" are basically what ships are though yeah
But I wasn't actually referring to fanfiction; more the ships/pairings themselves, and which you guys find you agree with


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> Shipping


Fuck right off. Seriously; never say that again.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 10, 2014)

ANd what is "lemony"?


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Fuck right off. Seriously; never say that again.


 The entire youthful population of Twitter and Tumblr use it. But fine sure



kittyP said:


> ANd what is "lemony"?


  smutty fics


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> The entire youthful population of Twitter and Tumblr use it. But fine sure


And you're one of those youthful Tumblr users, are you? Anyway, l'd be obliged if you'd save it for that audience. I like to think that this place is a refuge for oldies like me.


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> And you're one of those youthful Tumblr users, are you? Anyway, l'd be obliged if you'd save it for that audience. I like to think that this place is a refuge for oldies like me.


 Okey dokey then


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> How do you guys view the various Sherlock ships?



An unpleasant and unnecessary distraction from mystery-solving. The relationship between Sherlock and Watson is the only important thing, and that should be defined by the process of _solving mysteries _not the fucking washing up


----------



## susie12 (Jan 10, 2014)

I miss moriarty


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 10, 2014)

susie12 said:


> I miss moriarty


the actor is playing the lead in a new play at the royal court this year.  Play is called birdland.

at least, I think it's him.


----------



## andysays (Jan 10, 2014)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> Come back Clive Merrison, all is forgiven.



There are currently 5 Merrisons available on Radio 4 Extra iPlayer


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> the actor is playing the lead in a new play at the royal court this year.  Play is called birdland.
> 
> at least, I think it's him.


it is,  He's got about five films coming out this year too!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 10, 2014)

Anyone want a spoiler-free review to whet your appetite?

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/sherlock/28799/sherlock-his-last-vow-spoiler-free-review

If this is correct....none of the people who have been moaning are allowed to watch it!


----------



## spartacus mills (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> The entire youthful population of Twitter and Tumblr use it. But fine sure
> 
> 
> smutty fics



You cad! You bounder!


----------



## The Scientist (Jan 10, 2014)

spartacus mills said:


> You cad! You bounder!


 What does that even mean?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2014)

The Scientist said:


> What does that even mean?


We'll tell you when you're older.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 10, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> An unpleasant and unnecessary distraction from mystery-solving. The relationship between Sherlock and Watson is the only important thing, and that should be defined by the process of _solving mysteries _not the fucking washing up



Mrs Hudson is great in Sherlock though, effortlessly stealing scenes from Overact Posingmuch.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 12, 2014)

Penny Red has views on Sherlock. CBA reading it though, so I don't know what her views are. Starts with a story about real life lesbian friends of hers.


----------



## telbert (Jan 12, 2014)

Straight after tonights episode 10pm BBC 4 this is on: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03pzsd9


----------



## T & P (Jan 12, 2014)

Nearly time... Will it sink, or float?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 12, 2014)

Ugh, she was interesting at the wedding, now she's just a giggling, simpering girlfriend.

And _Sherlock's_ girlfriend


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 12, 2014)

I think it's time to pension off Steven Moffat.


----------



## IC3D (Jan 12, 2014)

Oooh its him from teh killing, that was doing my head in.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 12, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I think it's time to pension off Steven Moffat.


no,  this is the best episode of this series


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 12, 2014)

marty21 said:


> no,  this is the best episode of this series


It was, but this seruies has not been great.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 12, 2014)

Excellent episode! Really, really enjoyed that!


----------



## yardbird (Jan 12, 2014)

Class.


----------



## Supine (Jan 12, 2014)

Turned off after 40 mins. I just don't like the way it's filmed or written. Shame really, the cast are great.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 12, 2014)

what the suffering fuck?  the end was even worse than the beginning. and the middle


----------



## wiskey (Jan 12, 2014)

got thoroughly bored after about half an hour - but then the last 4 minutes were interesting again.

Why can't he just do cases.

ETA: It's turning into Dr Who - you have to know all about everything in order to understand it. And I don't like that.


----------



## TikkiB (Jan 12, 2014)

TikkiB said:


> I don't trust Mary. She keeps using spy-ey terminology; "skip code" last week, and "running" someone this. It's a bit too long-arc-moffaty for my liking.
> 
> (although i did enjoy this week's silliness)


I TOLD you she was a spy!

I did really enjoy that but I fear we've seen the end of bog standard crime solving now.  It's all about Sherlock/Dr Who defeating the Enemy of the Universe: Moriaty or Magnassen or The Master or the Daleks (delete as appropriate).


----------



## telbert (Jan 12, 2014)

Fucking brilliant episode.Best of the series.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 12, 2014)

telbert said:


> Fucking brilliant episode.*Best of the series*.


damning with faint praise!


----------



## mrsfran (Jan 12, 2014)

I enjoyed that all the more for knowing that people who take Sherlock seriously probably hated it


----------



## T & P (Jan 12, 2014)

Just how fucking _good_ was that??


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 12, 2014)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Excellent episode! Really, really enjoyed that!


This^


Supine said:


> Turned off after 40 mins. I just don't like the way it's filmed or written. Shame really, the cast are great.


You bailed out too early. That's when it started getting really intense. It is a 90 minute programme, you have to give it time for the main story to build up.


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 12, 2014)

So what's the deal with moriaty?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2014)

That was fucking fantastic.


----------



## T & P (Jan 12, 2014)

TikkiB said:


> I TOLD you she was a spy!
> 
> I did really enjoy that but I fear we've seen the end of bog standard crime solving now.  It's all about Sherlock/Dr Who defeating the Enemy of the Universe: Moriaty or Magnassen or The Master or the Daleks (delete as appropriate).


Not necessarily. In all three series to date there has been 'ordinary villain' cases. I'm sure they will squeeze at least one in for the next series.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 12, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> So what's the deal with moriaty?


he's the daleks, apparently.  

immortal arch-villains suck.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 12, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> So what's the deal with moriaty?



It wasn't video, so maybe one of his henchmen is making his move. It's been decades since I read the original stories, but I'm sure one of them features. Or maybe Mycroft arranged it - teach his little brother a lesson, but get him back quickly and safe. 

Anyway, great episode, one of the best of the whole nine so far.


----------



## T & P (Jan 12, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> So what's the deal with moriaty?


Not dead, it seems.

And what is the deal with that word today's baddie says to Sherlock that rattles him? Redbeard, or something like that?


----------



## TikkiB (Jan 12, 2014)

T & P said:


> Not necessarily. In all three series to date there has been 'ordinary villain' cases. I'm sure they will squeeze at least one in for the next series.



squeeze being the operative word there.  Don't get me wrong, I thought that last episode was great, but it's hard not to see similarities to Dr Who in the whole NarrativeJeopoardyCreep thing


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 12, 2014)

[



spanglechick said:


> he's the daleks, apparently.
> 
> immortal arch-villains suck.


But this IS Moriarty we're talking about.....who "shot" himself....apparently. Maybe all is not as it first appears.


----------



## marty21 (Jan 12, 2014)

that was brilliant!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2014)

T & P said:


> Not dead, it seems.
> 
> And what is the deal with that word today's baddie says to Sherlock that rattles him? Redbeard, or something like that?


That was his childhood dog that had to be put down, weren't you paying attention?


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 12, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> [
> 
> 
> But this IS Moriarty we're talking about.....who "shot" himself....apparently. Maybe all is not as it first appears.


oh yes, it's as plausible as anything else that he's still alive...  I just wish he didn't have to be.  Just as with the daleks, i hate it when they bring back an adversary.  it's annoying.


----------



## killer b (Jan 12, 2014)

is it necessary to have watched the other episodes to enjoy tonights?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> is it necessary to have watched the other episodes to enjoy tonights?


At least the ones from this series, yeah.

Although to be honest I'd tell anyone that hasn't seen them to watch the whole lot in sequence, they just flow better that way.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> is it necessary to have watched the other episodes to enjoy tonights?



Would help but not completely necessary.

That was the bollocks   I did the full sea lion handclap and noises at the end


----------



## killer b (Jan 12, 2014)

i kind of half watched the first one from this series, will that be enough?


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 12, 2014)

If Sherlock jumped of a building and lived, Moriarty can shoot himself in the head and live.  Moriarty was the best thing in the program and it's been a very good program.

(Mrs Hudson:  pressure point, marijuana)


----------



## colacubes (Jan 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> i kind of half watched the first one from this series, will that be enough?



If anything you need to watch the second tbh.  The 1st is more tenuously linked.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> i kind of half watched the first one from this series, will that be enough?


Not really. Just watch them in order


----------



## spartacus mills (Jan 12, 2014)

It was the best episode of the series which really isn't saying much...
I had a faint hope that this one would be a return to form but sad to say it left me totally unmoved. I just couldn't care about any character, I found it a total bore and it's time for me to give up on it.


----------



## killer b (Jan 12, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not really. Just watch them in order


fuck that.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 12, 2014)

Better episode than the last couple but I've really started to dislike the whole show. Agree with the Dr Who comparison (which I've also given up on). Meh.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> fuck that.


There's only 9 of them


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 12, 2014)

I know it's a weird complaint of a series that too much of the drama comes from the characters, but in this series I think that's been true. Sherlock is about the mysteries, that's why (most) people watch Sherlock rather than... fuck it, I don't know, I don't watch the other programmes (snob, moi? ).

I like the characters, I rally do, but the mysteries are coming far too far down the list of priorities these days. There's also a bit too much telling rather than showing; "John Watson is the best man I know", "Sherlock Holmes is the best man I know" - keep it under yer hats lads, you're supposed to be fucking British 

They also seem to be burning through proper adversaries rather quickly, even if they are bringing back Moriarty (I'll remain sceptical that it is really Moriarty coming back, given that he blew his own head off and we didn't see him 'live' on the TV).

As I said upthread, it's still better than most, but personally I'm not particularly keen on the direction its taking, or perhaps just how sharp the turn has been.


----------



## wiskey (Jan 12, 2014)

Bits of it were immense, the bit with Moriarty in the padded cell were gripping and chilling and great telly. But the last twenty minutes just dragged like a badgers arse IMO.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 12, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There's only 9 of them


That is 13.5 hours, tbf


----------



## killer b (Jan 12, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There's only 9 of them


i've seen the other two series, and a bit of the first ep of this one - i kind of fancied some brainless crap before bed and wondered if the latest ep would suffice is all.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Sherlock is about the mysteries, that's why (most) people watch


I watch it for the coat as much as anything else


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 12, 2014)

I thought the bit where Watson's face was being flicked was brilliant.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 12, 2014)

killer b said:


> i've seen the other two series, and a bit of the first ep of this one - i kind of fancied some brainless crap before bed and wondered if the latest ep would suffice is all.



It'll be ideal for that tbf.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 12, 2014)

Nah, not for me any more. Bad guy wasn't particularly menacing and this series just didn't do it for me 

Once you remove death as a threat, there's some big questions over the threat within the story and the idea of consequences to actions. 

Bah.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 12, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know it's a weird complaint of a series that too much of the drama comes from the characters, but in this series I think that's been true. Sherlock is about the mysteries, that's why (most) people watch Sherlock rather than... fuck it, I don't know, I don't watch the other programmes (snob, moi? ).



Nah I agree, the characters should be revealed through the plots.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 12, 2014)

Luther, which also hit Series 3 this year, was equally ridiculously plotted but I didn't mind as much as Sherlock.

The first three episodes are brilliantly tight, even 4, 5 and 6 work, although around the Adler execution things start going wonky.


----------



## prunus (Jan 12, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Bad guy wasn't particularly menacing



What, really?  I thought he was marvellously evil. 

I've enjoyed this series, and this episode was great.


----------



## telbert (Jan 12, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Ugh, she was interesting at the wedding, now she's just a giggling, simpering girlfriend.
> 
> And _Sherlock's_ girlfriend


Read "The adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton"


----------



## madamv (Jan 12, 2014)

When I visited 221b a few years ago, I'm sure there was something in there about an enemy who faked his death.   My memory isn't good and my mum would know better being a Conan Doyle fan.  I've tried a quick Google but its all Sherlock, not Holmes iyswim


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2014)

I love how much they use stuff from the books - stuff like Sherlock being "undercover" at the drug house springs to mind this week.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 12, 2014)

I have problems with that episode.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 12, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I love how much they use stuff from the books - stuff like Sherlock being "undercover" at the drug house springs to mind this week.



And his girlfriend buying a cottage in East Sussex and planning to dispose of the beehives, it's full of references to Conan Doyle's original tales.


----------



## gosub (Jan 13, 2014)

Loved it, BUT PLEASE DON'T GIVE US 3 DIFFERENT WAYS MORIARTY COULD SURVIVE PUTTING A GUN IN HIS MOUTH AND PULLING THE TRIGGER ALONG WITH A BANG AND LAYING IN A SUBSEQUENT POOL OF BLOOD!

Its his twin brother or start it with Sherlock in the shower, I can take its only a telly program but not sure I can take the internet traffic it generates


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Jan 13, 2014)

Belushi said:


> And his girlfriend buying a cottage in East Sussex and planning to dispose of the beehives, it's full of references to Conan Doyle's original tales.



And the references to the 'East wind': Conan Doyle used it in 'His Last Bow' published in 1917 as a patriotic reference to the German Threat and it was used in one of the Basil Rathbone films for the same reason in 1942.

_"There's an east wind coming, Watson."
"I think not, Holmes. It is very warm."
"Good old Watson! You are the one fixed point in a changing age. There's an east wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson, and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less, and a cleaner, better, stronger land will lie in the sunshine when the storm has cleared."_


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 13, 2014)

Thought it was great telly. Smart, original and really well set up from the previous two episodes. Best villain ever in magnussen as well. I think moffat is much, much better at sherlock than dr who. Maybe its cos in sherlock the main character is the most compelling aspect - and he has much more interesting sidekicks, in Dr Who its the context that makes the program ( renegade alien fighting evil  in time and space) and the doctor is always going to be too nice  - and too family entertainment - to be as fascinating as moffats 'high functioning sociopath'.

BTW - I agree with whoever suggested that Moriarty's return is a ruse by mycroft to get sherlock off the hook.


----------



## wiskey (Jan 13, 2014)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I thought the bit where Watson's face was being flicked was brilliant.


See that's where it completely lost it for me, in fact from the moment they arrived at Appledore my attention wandered. I just found myself really not caring. And the face flicking was just weird.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 13, 2014)

madamv said:


> When I visited 221b a few years ago, I'm sure there was something in there about an enemy who faked his death.   My memory isn't good and my mum would know better being a Conan Doyle fan.  I've tried a quick Google but its all Sherlock, not Holmes iyswim



in the original canon, i think you may be referring to jonas oldacre, the norwood builder, who attempted to fake his own murder and frame someone for it.  that's the nearest case I can think of.

alternatively, there was the man with the twisted lip, who nearly got convicted of his own murder.

neither an 'enemy' as such, but cases in which SH was involved.

This assumes of course that we accept SH's explanation to Watson that 'Professor' Moriarty did die at the Reichbach Falls.  John Gardner's _Moriarty _and _The Revenge of Moriarty_ cast doubt on this.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Thought it was great telly. Smart, original and really well set up from the previous two episodes. Best villain ever in magnussen as well. I think moffat is much, much better at sherlock than dr who. Maybe its cos in sherlock the main character is the most compelling aspect - and he has much more interesting sidekicks, in Dr Who its the context that makes the program ( renegade alien fighting evil  in time and space) and the doctor is always going to be too nice  - and too family entertainment - to be as fascinating as moffats 'high functioning sociopath'.
> 
> BTW - I agree with whoever suggested that Moriarty's return is a ruse by mycroft to get sherlock off the hook.


I think this episode suffered from Moffat Syndrome.  He had created too many threads and plots that all needed tying up and there wasn't the time to do it. Also see the last two Dr Who specials for further examples.


----------



## DRINK? (Jan 13, 2014)

prunus said:


> What, really?  I thought he was marvellously evil.
> 
> I've enjoyed this series, and this episode was great.


 
He licked an OAP, pissed in a fireplace and got shot in the head, plus he looked like Sven goran Eriksson... Not really nightmare inducing.

Loved the episode last night mind, everything Sunday night telly should be


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 13, 2014)

I really liked this series. I didn't see series 1, but did see series 2 and thought it was pretty silly, couldn't see why people were so into it.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 13, 2014)

i thought it was Brilliant mycroft especailly.
 "Well I hope you've learned your lesson"


----------



## scooter (Jan 13, 2014)

I thought I'd seen that exact same thing before - where the master appeared on all the televisions in the world silmultaneaously. Just as Moriarty did in Doctor Who


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 13, 2014)

scooter said:


> I thought I'd seen that exact same thing before - where the master appeared on all the televisions in the world silmultaneaously. Just as Moriarty did in Doctor Who


Not a Moffatt story, though.


----------



## T & P (Jan 13, 2014)

I think it's fair to say the Guardian reviewer liked it

However the Daily Mail is speaking of 'Left-wing bias'


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 13, 2014)

T & P said:


> I think it's fair to say the Guardian reviewer liked it





> I can't be sure, but I think this final episode of Sherlock – a ceaseless flow of wit, invention and intelligence – was perfect


Let me help assuage your doubts - no, it wasn't.

HTH


----------



## telbert (Jan 13, 2014)

Andrew Hertford said:


> And the references to the 'East wind': Conan Doyle used it in 'His Last Bow' published in 1917 as a patriotic reference to the German Threat and it was used in one of the Basil Rathbone films for the same reason in 1942.
> 
> _"There's an east wind coming, Watson."
> "I think not, Holmes. It is very warm."
> "Good old Watson! You are the one fixed point in a changing age. There's an east wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson, and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less, and a cleaner, better, stronger land will lie in the sunshine when the storm has cleared."_



 The Voice of Terror.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 13, 2014)

really enjoyed it. not read any of the books so don't have any prior emotional attachment (although i now want to read them)

def the best in this series.

eta - if i do read the books, are they sequential?


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan U said:


> eta - if i do read the books, are they sequential?


Yeah. but they don't need to be read in order.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan U said:


> really enjoyed it. not read any of the books so don't have any prior emotional attachment (although i now want to read them)
> 
> def the best in this series.
> 
> eta - if i do read the books, are they sequential?


 
They're great stories, well worth reading.


----------



## T & P (Jan 13, 2014)

And as the copyright has expired, they are free to download as e-books, on iTunes Store at least, and I'm sure on other platforms as well.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 13, 2014)

Another suggestion is that it was _Sherlock_ who arranged for moriarty to pop up on everyones tv screen so the state would have to call him back from his suicide mission.


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2014)

well, I enjoyed the last episode, as I enjoyed the rest of the series. It wasn't perfect by any means, the whole Mary is a super secret assassin but we cant tell you anything else is rather wanky (of course they cant tell us more, or we'd hate Mary, and that'd never do), and if they do bring Moriarty back, well.....

But a good villain, well set up, even if just before the end me n mrs b were both going 'well, if its all in his head, they'll just kill him'  Fair do's tho


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 13, 2014)

A slightly trolling plot summary from the Guardian comments, but amused me nonetheless:


> A private security contractor (G4Sherlock) assisted by his ex-military pal assassinates a member of the free press who was about to expose a government-sponsored assassin. In this, he is supported by his contact who works for the security services, who afterwards arranges for the contractor to be let off.
> As an additional bonus, the security contractor also manages to complete his other assignment: preventing a well-connected paedophile from being arrested and charged.


----------



## fogbat (Jan 13, 2014)

I do hope the NHS starts using the _remember a dog_ technique to treat shock.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 13, 2014)

wiskey said:


> See that's where it completely lost it for me, in fact from the moment they arrived at Appledore my attention wandered. I just found myself really not caring. And the face flicking was just weird.


I liked it, well liked is not really the right word in the context of what I say next!, in that I thought it showed what a bully the newspaper guy was. It was exactly the sory of humiliation bullies do when they know, or think, someone is defeated.

It was humiliating and degrading and I thought really captured the bullying element of the character


----------



## telbert (Jan 13, 2014)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I liked it, well liked is not really the right word in the context of what I say next!, in that I thought it showed what a bully the newspaper guy was. It was exactly the sory of humiliation bullies do when they know, or think, someone is defeated.
> 
> It was humiliating and degrading and I thought really captured the bullying element of the character




And lets not forget the pissing in the fireplace and helping himself to Sherlocks olive from his plate then dipping his fingers in his glass of water and flicking them on the rest of his food.All done to humiliate and degrade.Brilliantly acted.


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (Jan 13, 2014)

telbert said:


> .All done to humiliate and degrade.Brilliantly acted.



I wish they had done more with him (Lars Mikelsen). He was fantastic in the third season of Borgen too as Ravn the ex-marxist.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 13, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jan/13/dailymail-sherlock

the mail is getting its knickers in a twist over sherlocks 'left wing bias' (i.e. the thinly disguised murdoch villian)

Best comment -





> The Mail are just desperate for Sherlock to investigate where all the Romanian/Bulgarian immigrants disappeared too


----------



## yardbird (Jan 13, 2014)

T & P said:


> I think it's fair to say the Guardian reviewer liked it
> 
> However the Daily Mail is speaking of 'Left-wing bias'


I've just read the  Mail piece - it reads like a self parody. 
"Former teacher Mr Moffat" 
teaching = left wing organisation


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan U said:


> eta - if i do read the books, are they sequential?



they don't have to be read in sequence - the short stories were first published in monthly magazines, and Watson's literary agent (Conan Doyle) had the idea that it was better to place a series of short stories with the same characters rather than instalments of a longer story, so that the casual reader would not be left out.

It may be an idea to start with 'A Study in Scarlet' which was the first published, and in which Holmes and Watson met.  (Although part of this is Watson's writing and there is a section in the middle to explain the back story, the authorship of which has never been established.)

The short stories in the collections do bounce back and forward in time - there are a couple of cases which SH recounts to Watson which date from his youth / early career, and some cases published quite late on were held back pending (for example) the death of one of the clients involved.

The exact chronology of the cases is also occasionally deliberately unclear - Watson often said that some details were amended to protect the innocent (or otherwise) and it is believed that bits of information / conversations would be inserted by Watson in to one case to mask the date, or introduce a character who had not previously been introduced to the reader.

The most obvious being 'Professor' Moriarty, who was introduced to the reader in 'The Final Problem' (in which Watson claimed never to have heard of him) but in 'The Valley of Fear' (published later, but taking place earlier), Watson knew who he was.

There is a fair amount of study and debate about the apparent anomalies within the written canon.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 13, 2014)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Excellent episode! Really, really enjoyed that!



Me too, although having re-read Tom Bower's Robert Maxwell biogrpahy last year, I got the strong impression that's where Gatiss and Moffat had drawn a lot of Magnusson's character traits from, from the pissing to the arrogance to the comment about English people to the deliberate intimidatory physical contact (the flicking in Magnusson's case, pushing and shoving people around in Maxwell's case).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 13, 2014)

wiskey said:


> got thoroughly bored after about half an hour - but then the last 4 minutes were interesting again.
> 
> Why can't he just do cases.
> 
> ETA: It's turning into Dr Who - you have to know all about everything in order to understand it. And I don't like that.



I thought it was interesting, insofar as when it became obvious that Magnusson was using a memory palace to store his information, that there'd be no option but for either Watson or Holmes to kill him.  With no "hard copy" files to destroy, Magnusson's death was the only way to secure Mary's safety.
But I do agree that the writing makes it all a bit too involved if you don't take in every nuance.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 13, 2014)

T & P said:


> Not dead, it seems.
> 
> And what is the deal with that word today's baddie says to Sherlock that rattles him? Redbeard, or something like that?



Redbeard was his dog when he was a kid.  Obviously an emotional thing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 13, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Luther, which also hit Series 3 this year, was equally ridiculously plotted but I didn't mind as much as Sherlock.
> 
> The first three episodes are brilliantly tight, even 4, 5 and 6 work, although around the Adler execution things start going wonky.



You mean the first episode where the writers deliberately try to humanise Holmes?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 13, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Thought it was great telly. Smart, original and really well set up from the previous two episodes. Best villain ever in magnussen as well. I think moffat is much, much better at sherlock than dr who. Maybe its cos in sherlock the main character is the most compelling aspect - and he has much more interesting sidekicks, in Dr Who its the context that makes the program ( renegade alien fighting evil  in time and space) and the doctor is always going to be too nice  - and too family entertainment - to be as fascinating as moffats 'high functioning sociopath'.
> 
> BTW - I agree with whoever suggested that Moriarty's return is a ruse by mycroft to get sherlock off the hook.



Given what was supposedly being broadcast across the nation's TV sets, I'd agree.  Low-res image and looped words could have been created from any amount of existing Moriarty footage and put out in a Max Headroom-stylee manner.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 13, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> A slightly trolling plot summary from the Guardian comments, but amused me nonetheless:



Except, of course, that the well-connected paedo committed suicide according to the paper Watson was reading at Magnusson's gaff.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 13, 2014)

Because this wasn't the most inevitable thing ever.







So inevitable, you'd almost think they planned it


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 13, 2014)

And on a similar note


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2014)

QueenOfGoths said:


> It was exactly the sory of humiliation bullies do when they know, or think, someone is defeated.
> 
> It was humiliating and degrading and I thought really captured the bullying element of the character


it gave me something to try in the near future.


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 13, 2014)

DRINK? said:


> He licked an OAP


that bit made me shudder/feel *really* sick.


----------



## telbert (Jan 13, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I love how much they use stuff from the books - stuff like Sherlock being "undercover" at the drug house springs to mind this week.


Almost forgot,the Bill Wiggins reference was ecellent too.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 13, 2014)

I just worry about all the little kiddies in the playground

"Give me your lunch or I'll faceflick you into next Tuesday "


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2014)

telbert said:


> Almost forgot,the Bill Wiggins reference was ecellent too.


oh yes, I meant to look that one up.  There's the AGRA one too:

The USB drive containing the information about Mary’s former life which John throws into the fire bears her initials, ‘A.G.R.A.’. In the book The Sign of Four, Mary’s case revolves around a treasure from Agra, India.


----------



## moonsi til (Jan 13, 2014)

ah..I just watched it & loved it..


----------



## prunus (Jan 13, 2014)

belboid said:


> oh yes, I meant to look that one up.  There's the AGRA one too:
> 
> The USB drive containing the information about Mary’s former life which John throws into the fire bears her initials, ‘A.G.R.A.’. In the book The Sign of Four, Mary’s case revolves around a treasure from Agra, India.



Yes, I noticed that. Where the original Mary Morstan's father was.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 14, 2014)

I just got round to watching it and it was good.


----------



## Maggot (Jan 14, 2014)

I really enjoyed it too. Loved the bit at Leinster Gardens. For those of you who don't know: 23 and 24 Leinster Gardens are really dummy houses, and actually exist (or don't).  

http://www.urban75.org/london/leinster.html


----------



## Balbi (Jan 14, 2014)

I was shouting at the telly about that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2014)

Mycroft at christmas was amusing.


----------



## nomibucha (Jan 16, 2014)

Well a nice series excellent work and also an acting...!


----------



## Corax (Jan 17, 2014)

Anyone else read this btw?






I was bought it when I was about 12 and absolutely loved it, even without knowing many of the tales that were being parodied.

The Bound of the Haskervilles.    Very athletic family the Haskervilles.  Strong genes.


----------



## moon (Jul 2, 2014)

Oh yes!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28123420


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2014)

moon said:


> Oh yes!!
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28123420


no shit!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2014)

sorry, he can't be anything other than Bilbo now in my head.


----------



## gosub (Jul 2, 2014)

but he fell through the ice last weekend


----------



## T & P (Jul 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> sorry, he can't be anything other than Bilbo now in my head.


After watching the uber-excellent Fargo , I can only think of him now as the reptilian little shit Lester.

Didn't know he had it in him to play such an unpleasant character so well, but he turned out to be a natural for it. Very impressive performance.


----------



## T & P (Jul 10, 2015)

A teaser trailer of a Sherlock 'Special' has just been released


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 11, 2015)

T & P said:


> A teaser trailer of a Sherlock 'Special' has just been released



Excellent


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 11, 2015)

Seen this?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2015)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 8, 2015)

Is that technically the first xmas trailer?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Is that technically the first xmas trailer?


it is. Not long now till the Who trailer


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


>



That looks bloody brilliant


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 9, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That looks bloody brilliant


coppers in raincapes and proper tithead helmets lol


----------



## Voley (Oct 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


>



Ooh, I like the look of that.


----------



## T & P (Jan 1, 2016)

Bump. Tonight at 9


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 1, 2016)

Can't wait


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2016)

EXCITED


----------



## Voley (Jan 1, 2016)

T & P said:
			
		

> Bump. Tonight at 9



Thanks. I'd completely forgotten about this.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2016)

That was fantastic


----------



## D'wards (Jan 1, 2016)

I enjoyed the straight murder story - the rest was a bit meta - but that's Moffat all over innit


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2016)

Probably the very worst Sherlock to doze off in front of. Woke up to find Moriarty alive and it's all a dream. Or not. Or is. Or...


----------



## Voley (Jan 1, 2016)

Really enjoyed that.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 1, 2016)

First time viewer. Feel like I may have overdone the cheap port this evening...couldn't really make head nor tail of it all.
Nice to look at...and well acted an all...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 1, 2016)

brogdale said:


> First time viewer. Feel like I may have overdone the cheap port this evening...couldn't really make head nor tail of it all.
> Nice to look at...and well acted an all...


get some decent port and you'll be able to comprehend more


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## Saffy (Jan 1, 2016)

Overall I enjoyed it, I did nod off a bit so I may need to watch it again.


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## brogdale (Jan 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> get some decent port and you'll be able to comprehend more


Quite possibly...but £6.69 a bottle = some befuddlement.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> get some decent port and you'll be able to comprehend more



7% intravenous solution of cocaine, more like

That was nuts, but in a good way. I think.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2016)

brogdale said:


> First time viewer. Feel like I may have overdone the cheap port this evening...couldn't really make head nor tail of it all.
> Nice to look at...and well acted an all...


You really need to have seen the rest of them for that to have made much sense.

Which you should do because they're great


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 1, 2016)

Thought it was very entertaining, but left me confused as fuck quite often.  Couldn't help thinking that some of it was aimed at the fairly large feminist backlash to previous episodes (same director?).  I've little knowledge on the books or previous productions so please accept i'm offering basically nothing other than a response.  Stavvers and the gang really went for the then directors throat for apparent anti-feminist production at the time. 

  I enjoyed the production though, the acting works well especially between Cambergurger and Freeman, some bits cracked me up. It's been a long few days tbh, I enjoyed it as entertainment and that's all I wanted.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 1, 2016)

Knowledge of the books isn't really required, but does add to the enjoyment. The scripts are littered with throwaway references to the original stories, as well as the more obvious overal plots and characters.


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## Voley (Jan 1, 2016)

brogdale said:
			
		

> Quite possibly...but £6.69 a bottle = some befuddlement.



They're not bad viewing if you're a bit wonky. I watched the box set zonked on pain meds when I was recovering from an operation a year or so ago. Just enough plot twisting to keep me happily befuddled but entertained at the same time. It was ideal. Really took my mind off what was a pretty shitty situation.


----------



## Reno (Jan 1, 2016)

OneStrike said:


> Thought it was very entertaining, but left me confused as fuck quite often.  Couldn't help thinking that some of it was aimed at the fairly large feminist backlash to previous episodes (same director?).  I've little knowledge on the books or previous productions so please accept i'm offering basically nothing other than a response.  Stavvers and the gang really went for the then directors throat for apparent anti-feminist production at the time.
> 
> I enjoyed the production though, the acting works well especially between Cambergurger and Freeman, some bits cracked me up. It's been a long few days tbh, I enjoyed it as entertainment and that's all I wanted.


TV is a writers medium so if anybody is pissed off at the turn a series takes they'd be an idiot to go after the director. There was a bit of a media flutter and debate after the Irene Adler episode in season two, but hardly what I'd call a large feminist backlash to the entire series. One blogger does not represent all feminists.


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## A380 (Jan 1, 2016)

What an example of what good television can be. Brilliant.


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 1, 2016)

Reno said:


> TV is a writers medium so if anybody is pissed off at the turn a series takes they'd be an idiot to go after the director. There was a bit of a media flutter and debate after the Irene Adler episode in season two, but hardly what I'd call a large feminist backlash to the entire series. One blogger does not represent all feminists.


Thanks for the post  I struggled at the time as to why I was lucifur, probably a sp.   More inresting debate to be had, 4 shore.  Fucking mail me if i happen to be wrong and important.


----------



## kebabking (Jan 2, 2016)

A380 said:


> What an example of what good television can be. Brilliant.



dunno, i thought it was all a bit self-indulgent.

i liked the idea of Victorian Sherlock, and i liked the murder story, but the to-ing and fro-ing was just crap, and neither Holmes nor Watson were at anything like their deliciously offensive best. 

my 12yo was watching it as her first introduction to Sherlock - we're massive fans, watch it religously, boxset, repeats etc...  and she was just 'WTF...?'


----------



## Epona (Jan 2, 2016)

I thought it was utterly shit.


----------



## 8den (Jan 2, 2016)

Boring navel gazing self indulgent bollocks.


----------



## Epona (Jan 2, 2016)

Seriously, if anyone decides that it is a good idea to have Moffat and Gattis collaborating on something, an adult needs to step in and tell them to go outside to play.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 2, 2016)

Epona said:


> Seriously, if anyone decides that it is a good idea to have Moffat and Gattis collaborating on something, an adult needs to step in and tell them to go outside to play.


They certainly need a good editor


----------



## Reno (Jan 2, 2016)

I recorded this, but I went off the series after the second season's Hound of the Baskervilles. How can you fuck that up so badly ? Never got round to watching season 3. The problem with the first two season was that there was one good, one middling and one terrible episode and all episodes are feature length. If you end up with a stinker that's a lot of time wasted.

May not bother with this now from what I'm reading.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 2, 2016)

That largely sums up my feelings, there's some good stuff there but there's a lot (and an increasing amount IMO) of chaff/rubbish as well


----------



## spartacus mills (Jan 2, 2016)

I enjoyed most of the first two series. I hated series 3 and only watched last night's as I was tricked into nbelieving it was a one-off 19th century special. 
It was the usual shit and 8Eden's "Boring navel gazing self indulgent bollocks" is spot on.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 2, 2016)

pfft...moaners

Monstrous Regiment!  



Spoiler: spoiler



Monstrous Regiment (novel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DiscWorld novel about women's rights (kind of)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 2, 2016)

Epona said:


> I thought it was utterly shit.


You are utterly wrong


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 2, 2016)

Not bad I thought. It was too long and the mystery bit was basically abandoned halfway through in favour of meta-nonsense and MAKING A POINT about women and stuff before returning to a story which was still all about the egos of men depite some half-arsed efforts to give the female characters a bigger role.

I'm all in favour of feminist parables on mainstream TV, but can we get some actual women to write them please?


----------



## MrsDoyle (Jan 2, 2016)

13 tweets that perfectly sum up the reaction to last night's Sherlock special

I enjoyed it, well made and played as ever and Andrew Scott just makes me all gooey, not happy with the wait for S4 tho


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Jan 2, 2016)

Epona said:


> I thought it was utterly shit.



Same, was simply awful. Like a bad Dr Who.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 2, 2016)

I think if they'd committed to just doing a Victorian special, with everyone understanding it was a bit of festive fun, the reception would have been much better. As it is I think they've tried to be a bit too clever for their own good and, by trying to insert it into the standard timeline, haven't actually progressed things very far in terms of either story or characterisation.

As one tweet said, all that happened was Sherlock got off a plane and into a car, with the only development being he's now pretty sure Moriarty is dead.


----------



## 8den (Jan 2, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> Same, was simply awful. Like a bad Dr Who.



Two things I hated.

1.) Mary Watson hacking MI5 on her phone. You do understand you can write a strong capable female character without making her a Mary Sue?

2). Sherlock Mansplanning Feminism to a group of Feminist Terrorist Occulists.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2016)

fat mycroft was lol


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 3, 2016)

Enjoyed that, kept me interested all the way through but then I do enjoy the work of mark gatiss.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 3, 2016)

I haven't watched Sherlock past series 1 because I just didn't like it. From the sounds of it, I still very much wouldn't.


----------



## Epona (Jan 3, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I haven't watched Sherlock past series 1 because I just didn't like it. From the sounds of it, I still very much wouldn't.



Don't bother with this episode, it was mostly a Moffat + Gatiss self-congratulatory wank-fest.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> fat mycroft was lol


Another nod to the original books


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 3, 2016)

Self-indulgent and trading on past good will was my feeling. 

I enjoyed bits, such as fat Mycroft, thought the acting was good but generally was very disappointed by it


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jan 3, 2016)

I did enjoy it, especially with the clipped enunciation but


Lord Camomile said:


> I think if they'd committed to just doing a Victorian special, with everyone understanding it was a bit of festive fun, the reception would have been much better.


this as well.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 3, 2016)

It seems to have developed into a 'marmite' episode, I enjoyed it Mrs S didn't, she says it was too much regurgitated ideas, I thought it was more like a tongue in cheek seasonal spoof!
These are the opinions that are the result of an hairy arsed maintenance engineer marrying someone with a masters in Eng Lit!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 3, 2016)

I don't get why people are saying it should have just been a Victorian thing, why? That would have been too easy. It was much cleverer than that. 

Plus we got to see Sherlock and Moriarty at the Reichenbach falls, I did a little cheer at that bit


----------



## kittyP (Jan 3, 2016)

I do understand what people are saying about why they didn't like it but I still thoroughly enjoyed it


----------



## kittyP (Jan 3, 2016)

And I love Mark Gattis


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 3, 2016)

Seeing as the dream of the past was about how some one had faked shooting themselves in the head but then in the present at the end Sherlock said that moriaty was definitely dead, was this misdirection from Sherlock because he has actually worked out how Moriarty is still alive?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 3, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't get why people are saying it should have just been a Victorian thing, why? That would have been too easy. It was much cleverer than that.



Clever? 'And it was all a dream' has been done once or twice before you know. Moffat even did it with Doctor Who last christmas, which is partly why I thought, he can't be selling us the same shit again can he? Oh yes, he can.

Still, it wasn't bad. Some great character moments and dialogue. Just a pity they don't really bother solving mysteries any more. Jonathon Creek had better mysteries.


----------



## andysays (Jan 3, 2016)

No, shit _Sherlock_


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> Two things I hated.
> 
> 1.) Mary Watson hacking MI5 on her phone. You do understand you can write a strong capable female character without making her a Mary Sue?
> 
> 2). Sherlock Mansplanning Feminism to a group of Feminist Terrorist Occulists.



I particularly like the way the feminist terrorist occultists listen obediently.

And it failed the Bechdel test.

I rewound to the bit where Mary talks to Mrs Hudson after the blokes have left, to check, and they do just talk about the blokes. Mrs Hudson gives Mary a note that's arrived but I don't think you can count that (and it's from a bloke anyway).


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> 2). Sherlock Mansplanning Feminism to a group of Feminist Terrorist Occulists.



In fucking KKK style outfits too 

It had its moments though which I thought were pretty good - not sure the to/fro with the dream thing added much really.


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> In fucking KKK style outfits too



technically satanists


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 3, 2016)

RubyToogood said:


> And it failed the Bechdel test.


So a show about two blokes, set mainly in the Victorian era, based on books set in the Victorian era, fails the test? This matters why?


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So a show about two blokes, set mainly in the Victorian era, based on books set in the Victorian era, fails the test? This matters why?



Because it's supposedly about Feminism. 

Forget it, it was a hot mess.


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> In fucking KKK style outfits too
> 
> .



Strictly, wossname, mad Spanish Easter:







And a pisstake on previous eps.

But mansplaining, yes


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2016)

benedict cumerbund is also going to be playing Doctor Strange in one of the upcoming spandex marathon extravaganzas. So, pentagrams and shit. Cos Strange is a magician (technically sorcerer supreme).


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> technically satanists





laptop said:


> Strictly, wossname, mad Spanish Easter:



Yeah I know, was being a bit OTT there, but really?! Scottish Widows hooded cloaks surely would have been sufficient


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> Scottish Widows hooded cloaks surely would have been sufficient



They did those in the first ep they were pisstaking. Journalistic urge not to repeat...


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> upcoming spandex marathon extravaganzas.



???


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2016)

laptop said:


> ???


you know. Captain America this and fantastic 4 that. Ant man etc. I've lost track of where we are at in the whole Marvel film universe saga but I know he's in the next one


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> Yeah I know, was being a bit OTT there, but really?! Scottish Widows hooded cloaks surely would have been sufficient



Works for me. Always found Scottish widows to be dead sexy...


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

laptop said:


> ???



He's playing dr strange in forthcoming marvel filum...


----------



## belboid (Jan 3, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> In fucking KKK style outfits too .


The original five orange pips story is centred on the KKK, so that did make sense.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> Works for me. Always found Scottish widows to be dead sexy...


like Bene Gesserit only they work for a bank


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> 1.) Mary Watson hacking MI5 on her phone. You do understand you can write a strong capable female character without making her a Mary Sue?



I kept thinking of Penny from Inspector Gadget (who I was very jealous of when I was younger).


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> like Bene Gesserit only they work for a bank



Steady on, the Bene Gesserit are a elite quasi religious conspiracy of fanatical psychic eugenists, they're not evil.


----------



## Belushi (Jan 3, 2016)

Watched some Jeremy Brett playing Holmes on ITV3 earlier, enjoyed it much more.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 3, 2016)

Belushi said:


> Watched some Jeremy Brett playing Holmes on ITV3 earlier, enjoyed it much more.



Jeremy Brett was brilliant as Holmes as written by Conan-Doyle.


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> He's playing dr strange in forthcoming marvel filum...


Ah, was afraid he was playing Mr Strange


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

laptop said:


> Ah, was afraid he was playing Mr Strange



He was, but he went to one of diploma mills.


----------



## gosub (Jan 3, 2016)

RubyToogood said:


> I particularly like the way the feminist terrorist occultists listen obediently.
> 
> And it failed the Bechdel test.
> 
> I rewound to the bit where Mary talks to Mrs Hudson after the blokes have left, to check, and they do just talk about the blokes. Mrs Hudson gives Mary a note that's arrived but I don't think you can count that (and it's from a bloke anyway).


  Can I now expect in the next series, Mrs Hudson and Mary to have a long conversation about ....the Bechdel test.


----------



## gosub (Jan 3, 2016)

kebabking said:


> dunno, i thought it was all a bit self-indulgent.
> 
> i liked the idea of Victorian Sherlock, and i liked the murder story, but the to-ing and fro-ing was just crap, and neither Holmes nor Watson were at anything like their deliciously offensive best.
> 
> my 12yo was watching it as her first introduction to Sherlock - we're massive fans, watch it religously, boxset, repeats etc...  and she was just 'WTF...?'


i quite liked it, showed up the way that as much as there are knowing references to the stories, modern Sherlock isn't just Sherlock transported through time (mind you that's been done , and was awful) by dragging it back to context, showed how much they had made it their own ..enough to justify not giving the created credit to Conan Doyle.   Also a nice slap down to anyone who complained that they never properly explained how he survived the fall.  Conan Doyle didn't, so why should we have.  

Did feel a bit of a holding pattern though,but given the way BC/MF & even AS career's have been going (quite justifiably) what can you do.


----------



## RubyToogood (Jan 3, 2016)

gosub said:


> Can I now expect in the next series, Mrs Hudson and Mary to have a long conversation about ....the Bechdel test.


Why the hostility?


----------



## gosub (Jan 3, 2016)

RubyToogood said:


> Why the hostility?


The show can only go so far in being self knowing and tweaking to fan traffic before it dissappears up it own fundiment


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> Works for me. Always found Scottish widows to be dead sexy...



I think they mean the life insurance people with the sexy twentysomething scottish widow poncing about in a black hooded cloak.

Fun fact: Scottish Widows started life as a mutual fund for the wives of Scottish clergymen. In order to create this fund and set contributions at an appropriate level, its founders basically invented statistical analysis. Their prediction for how much cash would be in their fund after its first twenty years was only one pound off.


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

RubyToogood said:


> Why the hostility?



Hypothesis: most of the pleasure of the Conan Doyle stories is that they are, in the main, entirely formulaic. You know what sort of thing is coming next - not the details of whodunnit (etc) but the means of discovery.

So pissing around with meta-stuff pisses on that.

I did like the moment when Mrs Hudson complains that she never gets any lines, for all that.


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

gosub said:


> Also a nice slap down to anyone who complained that they never properly explained how he survived the fall.  Conan Doyle didn't, so why should we .



Yes he bloody did. Moriarty fell from reichenbach falls, Sherlock climbed down an alternative path.


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> I think they mean the life insurance people with the sexy twentysomething scottish widow poncing about in a black hooded cloak.
> 
> Fun fact: Scottish Widows started life as a mutual fund for the wives of Scottish clergymen. In order to create this fund and set contributions at an appropriate level, its founders basically invented statistical analysis. Their prediction for how much cash would be in their fund after its first twenty years was only one pound off.



We clearly have a different definition of fun.


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

8den said:


> Sherlock climbed down an alternative path.



Up?


----------



## 8den (Jan 3, 2016)

laptop said:


> Up?



Yes sorry. The point is, Doyle did explain Sherlocks survival.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2016)

oh I like how the newspaper cuttings floated in front of his face while he was doing the lotus position, a nice nod to the way txts get displayed on screen in non dream victoriana sherlock.

victorian britain on tv too clean and its inhabitants far too healthy, but then everyone does that.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 3, 2016)

RubyToogood said:


> ...And it failed the Bechdel test....



No...a story where women conspire and kill men who subjugate them...making a fool of everyone...and the main
protagonists declare them as being in the right, deserving to win.....may fail the _rules_ of the test but not the concept.

It's the opposite of failing. The concept of the story is subjugation and fighting against it.

It was also a drug-induced mind-palace fiction created by Sherlock to work out what the dead Moriarty does next.


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> oh I like how the newspaper cuttings floated in front of his face while he was doing the lotus position



But not how amateurishly clipped the clippings were


----------



## Ted Striker (Jan 3, 2016)

Belushi said:


> Watched some Jeremy Brett playing Holmes on ITV3 earlier, enjoyed it much more.



I DL'd all of them after editor 's affection to them (never seen any of them before). They're (he is!) awesome - I'm even a snob in distinguishing my Watsons from the JB Sherlocks (v1 is much prefereable!).

I actually love all (well, Jeremy Brett, Benny C, and Johnny Lee MIller) major screen versions of Sherlock. They all have their elements that shine IMO .

Martin Freeman though...Man that guy nails roles (moderately different ones at that) that you simply couldn't imagine anyone other than him playing them (and without laboured RADA-esque screen chewing or being a product of a heavyweight PR/Sleb machine).


----------



## laptop (Jan 3, 2016)

Ted Striker said:


> Martin Freeman though...Man that guy nails roles (moderately different ones at that) that you simply couldn't imagine anyone other than him playing them (and without laboured RADA-esque screen chewing or being a product of a heavyweight PR/Sleb machine).



He really wasn't very good as Richard III.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jan 3, 2016)

laptop said:


> He really wasn't very good as Richard III.



Admittedly one I haven't seen  My frame of reference was Office/Fargo/LotR/Sherlock. And Love Actually.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2016)

Portly Mycroft made me think of Alan Moore's Mycroft in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Volume 1, which is much better than the other night's effort. I do love BC and MF but Jeremy Brett will always be Sherlock for me.


----------



## wiskey (Jan 5, 2016)

I watched this last night/this morning (either side of a night shift).

Rarely do I watch an hour of TV and come away feeling so completely WTF


----------



## Cid (Jan 5, 2016)

wiskey said:


> I watched this last night/this morning (either side of a night shift).
> 
> Rarely do I watch an hour of TV and come away feeling so completely WTF



So much so that you lost 30 minutes...


----------



## wiskey (Jan 6, 2016)

Cid said:


> So much so that you lost 30 minutes...


Ah ... did watch it with a 12hr interval, but I just pressed play again so I presume it took up where it left off.


----------



## Cloo (Jan 8, 2016)

We enjoyed it - creditably over the top!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 8, 2016)

I thought it was alright, but then I also liked series three. Wasn't too hot on the idea of a victorian episode (coz there aren't dozens of films and tv series on that already) so the screwjob didn't bother me.


----------

