# Why the Guardian is going down the pan!



## treelover (Jun 23, 2010)

This is the new Toryboy Guardian editorial writer, nuff said

and this is what he said about the budget...

'Julian Glover: Ideological? Perhaps. Necessary? Certainly


This was not – or at least not only – a Conservative budget. It was horrible, of course. It will produce genuine Labour rage, of course. Many voters will feel betrayed, of course. But the audacity ran in more than one direction.

Without the coalition, without Cameron, we would have had something much less progressive than this, the distillation of a new political daring. This was the budget of a chancellor who believes that the fact government has failed is not the same as saying government will always fail.''

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/22/budget-2010-verdict


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## little_legs (Jun 23, 2010)

if you look closely, this glover character looks like the illegitemate child of michael gove


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## treelover (Jun 23, 2010)

The tory trolls, misanthropes, bigots, mysogynists, sub randians are ruining CIF, the G needs to remember who buys its paper version, not them!


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 23, 2010)




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## bi0boy (Jun 23, 2010)

treelover said:


> Why the Guardian is going down the pan!



I guess it's like realising the LibDems are actually Tories rather than sensible lefties.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 23, 2010)

The Sun might not actually be fighting for the interests of British workers.


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## treelover (Jun 23, 2010)

I used to love the G, it literally kept me sane during the worst part of the 80's

why I am 'tilting at windmills' FM?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 23, 2010)

Because this is absolutely what the Guardian has always done.


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## bi0boy (Jun 23, 2010)

treelover said:


> I used to love the G, it literally kept me sane during the worst part of the 80's
> 
> why I am 'tilting at windmills' FM?



Were you an SDP voter?


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## tynusx (Jun 23, 2010)

the grauniad is a damn parody of itself.


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## treelover (Jun 23, 2010)

yeah, right, maybe i just wasn't as politically sophisticated as you and others on here, leaving a 'sink' school with few qualification often ensures this.


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## Shevek (Jun 23, 2010)

I used to buy the Guardian everyday. The I started buying the FT because Noam Chomsky said it was the only paper that told the truth but I found it a bit obtuse. I started buying the Morning Star but its a bit like Orthodox communism. 

I like some of the articles in the Big Issue, there was one recently about the Chinese communist party. I am saving up for a subscription to the anarchist magazine Freedom.

Its not a magazine or paper but on web-tv Democracy Now is quite good but very US biased.


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## Steel Icarus (Jun 23, 2010)

I only buy the Guardian on Saturday, for the Guide, sport, and the Lit review. Used to buy it every day to take to work, as the quick crossword was something to do in my lunchbreak rather than have a fag (I'd stopped at that time).

But that bloke...I had a boss like that once. Nothing so supercilious as a formerly bullied spotty geek virgin in a position of minor power. I used to like asking him, often and totally deadpan, about his degree in Social Geography.


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## London_Calling (Jun 23, 2010)

Another one is James Landale, the BBC's deputy political editor under Nick Robinson.

He was at Eton with Boris Johnson and Disco Dave.








Been playing the Tory game all week with the 'wartime spirit' evocation. Last seen doing a piece to camera outside the Churchill Cabinet War Rooms: 'We're all in it together' confirms BBC.  FFS.


At this rate I expect an old chum of Disco Dave's to take over from Capello by the quarter finals - assuming we get there.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 23, 2010)

treelover said:


> This is the new Toryboy Guardian editorial writer, nuff said


 
Once a writer of editorials, but now a commentator in his own right, and so allowed to flirt with economic liberalism. The difference is quite significant in newspaperland. 




> The tory trolls, misanthropes, bigots, mysogynists, sub randians are ruining CIF, the G needs to remember who buys its paper version, not them!


 
But the two aren't parallel. The website is aiming for world domination - and the Internet is dominated by right wing Sepps - while the paper version, as you say, is bought by, um, Urban. 

Having said that, Glover commentates on the main paper, but there's always been a pretty wide spread of comment, including a fair number of rightwingers.  Ed Vaizey, for instance. Even David Cameron a few times.


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## _angel_ (Jun 23, 2010)

I don't even think the right wing freaks (so many of whom seem to be American) actually are in the majority, they just seem to get everywhere and shout the loudest. Having said that, the Guardian has been going downhill for a long time.


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## mauvais (Jun 23, 2010)

What Maurice said. It's always been like that. Toynbee is in there today blathering on about economic savagery. None of it is particularly compelling.


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## Spion (Jun 23, 2010)

The Guardian has been going downhill for as long as people who once had illusions in it realised it wasn't what they thought it was. I expect it will go downhill for a very long time yet


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## kyser_soze (Jun 23, 2010)

The Guardian has always had tory-ish op-ed types tho - look at Simon 'Everyone in the world is useless except me' Jenkins, for example, and they carry syndicated articles from r/wing journos, politicians etc all the time. No big deal. Telegraph occasionally has a sort of left person write a column. 

Altho Glover looks like a proper chinless wonder. At least Jenkins byline pic looks like someone who could spin a decent anecdote down the pub.


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 23, 2010)

treelover said:


> the G needs to remember who buys its paper version, not them!



Liberal voting middle class public sector management on 70 - 100k per annum?


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## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2010)

I don't recall them ever having a glover type with such a leading tone-setting role though - not for the last few decades anyway. He seems to be bossing things there right now - refusing to write editorials he doesn't fully agree with and demanding a leading position as a commentator for not kicking up a fuss about it.


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## stethoscope (Jun 23, 2010)

Spion said:


> The Guardian has been going downhill for as long as people who once had illusions in it realised it wasn't what they thought it was.



This. I used to consider it as some sort of left sanctuary amongst the sheer quantity of right-wing press (and in some ways it is), but over the years I've come to realise that it's much more about middle class neo-liberalism and libertarianism (although for most right-wingers it's bizarrely still seen as being 'left').

CIF's a joke but doesn't completely reflect its hardcopy readership. Besides, on teh internetz you canz spew your brainz.



(I still buy it on a Sat though  ... although get the Morning Star much more regularly now).


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## jusali (Jun 23, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> Liberal voting middle class public sector management on 70 - 100k per annum?



 Just looking at the magazines' featured houses/interiors and cars all seems to cater for that kind of income.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 23, 2010)

Who's Glover's old man or lady? Usual GMG nepotism methinks...


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## treelover (Jun 23, 2010)

good point


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## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Who's Glover's old man or lady? Usual GMG nepotism methinks...



I've searched for all the dirt i can on him, can't find any beyond the filth he actually writes. He appears to have been very careful to cover his tracks. And despite that pic above, he's actually in his 40s.


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## Combustible (Jun 23, 2010)

I think this must be my favourite Glover article.

On David Laws: "This man of exceptional nobility has been broken"


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## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2010)

_He_ should be broken. On the wheel.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 23, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I've searched for all the dirt i can on him, can't find any beyond the filth he actually writes. He appears to have been very careful to cover his tracks. And despite that pic above, he's actually in his 40s.



Wow, he looks like he's about 10 in that shot.


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## kabbes (Jun 23, 2010)

Plus its crossword is a bit rubbish.


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## dennisr (Jun 23, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Plus its crossword is a bit rubbish.



that's the bit i liked (because i can just about manage it...)


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## kabbes (Jun 23, 2010)

When I buy the paper, it's never for the news and comment.  The internet does that much better.  Mostly, to be honest, it's for the crossword.  So I buy The Times, which has the best crossword.  Yeah, that's right!  The Times!


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## Spion (Jun 23, 2010)

When I did buy the G I never read the comment pages anyway, only the news. I never understood mates who used to buy it and get all het up over the comment writers' drivel.

One time I got bored of the G and bought a different one of the broadsheets for a week at a time and read it on the train to work. On the news pages the only difference was in terms of the type of stories covered (In the G there was more likely to be news of interests to teachers and academics, in the Telegraph there'd be more stories about WW2/soldiers and better business coverage, for eg). All the broadsheets had similar standards of news reporting and there wasn't much to choose between them except in story selection. It was in the comment pages and supplements they really varied.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 23, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I don't recall them ever having a glover type with such a leading tone-setting role though - not for the last few decades anyway. He seems to be bossing things there right now - refusing to write editorials he doesn't fully agree with and demanding a leading position as a commentator for not kicking up a fuss about it.



No, you're right, this is particularly bad - I'm baffled as to what's going on over there. Really blatant cheerleading so prominently and regularly just isn't the style.


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 23, 2010)

The Guardian has been shit for a decade or more


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## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, you're right, this is particularly bad - I'm baffled as to what's going on over there. Really blatant cheerleading so prominently and regularly just isn't the style.



summat to do with the fact that the party they support (ie really supportm, as opposed to merely call for a vote for) is in some kind of 'power'  perchance?


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## _angel_ (Jun 23, 2010)

Combustible said:


> I think this must be my favourite Glover article.
> 
> On David Laws: "This man of exceptional nobility has been broken"



What century are we in?


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## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

Spion said:


> When I did buy the G I never read the comment pages anyway, only the news. I never understood mates who used to buy it and get all het up over the comment writers' drivel.



quite.  it's a _news_paper, the comment bits are obly for when you're really bored and have absolutely nohing better to do. Who the fuck cares what Polly Toynbee thinks?


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## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2010)

belboid said:


> quite.  it's a _news_paper, the comment bits are obly for when you're really bored and have absolutely nohing better to do. Who the fuck cares what Polly Toynbee thinks?



Thing is, glover was writing comment style pieces and presenting it as news in the month before the election - and they allowed him to. His dishonest presentation of polls for example left even me red-faced.


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## belboid (Jun 23, 2010)

they thought he was going to be an MP who would allow them major access???


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## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2010)

You what? Glover?


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## _angel_ (Jun 23, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Thing is, glover was writing comment style pieces and presenting it as news in the month before the election - and they allowed him to. His dishonest presentation of polls for example left even me red-faced.



Most papers do that but the Guardian used to be less bad at it compared to the Independent.


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## sihhi (Jun 23, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I've searched for all the dirt i can on him, can't find any beyond the filth he actually writes. He appears to have been very careful to cover his tracks. And despite that pic above, he's actually in his 40s.



For the benefit of anyone who doesn't know

He is Matthew Paris's partner. Before that he was also his assistane/researcher. Parris's description of him outing of Mandleson mentions this:



> I assumed that Mandelson’s homosexuality was a matter of public record, often alluded to, uncontested and beyond contention. What I thought I was doing in including Mandelson in my list of gay MPs was twitting him, in a not entirely unaffectionate way, with something he rather grandly thought he could banish from conversation.
> 
> But Paxman looked stunned. At the end of the interview, he shook my hand — odd, I thought — and disappeared. I now know that he headed off to compose a handwritten letter of apology to Mandelson, which he personally delivered at dawn the following day.
> 
> ...



He helped ghostwrite John Major's autobiography in the late 1990s. It sold well and he received quite a lot from the deal apparently. Obviously Major gives himself a complete whitewash in the thing.

Yet he had the temerity to include it as one of the best political memoirs of all time:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2002/oct/22/politicalbooks.bestbooks


He got a job as a politics journalist at the Guardian, then _very __quickly_ head of Guardian's politics website from 2001-2005, then Westminster scoop writer, then leader writer from 2006 onward


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## kyser_soze (Jun 23, 2010)

belboid said:


> they thought he was going to be an MP who would allow them major access???



Nah, he just looks like the bow-tied Wyatt spring-off 

Butch re: the articles - do you mean they were appearing in the main news section and were in the same layout as the newsy stuff, or presenting op-ed pieces as news, in the same style as a news article?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 23, 2010)

belboid said:


> summat to do with the fact that the party they support (ie really supportm, as opposed to merely call for a vote for) is in some kind of 'power'  perchance?



It's just going to alienate their readership. It's much too bare-faced and preachy to reassure more than a few of the Lib Dems who now want to be reassured they did the right thing, and those not in that group will hate it.


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## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Nah, he just looks like the bow-tied Wyatt spring-off
> 
> Butch re: the articles - do you mean they were appearing in the main news section and were in the same layout as the newsy stuff, or presenting op-ed pieces as news, in the same style as a news article?



Both. There was this amazing one (in the news section) on an ICM poll that reported tories on 33, labour on 28 and LD on 30, which he managed to report (and headline) as *Labour support could fall below 20%*.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 23, 2010)

Jesus H Christ. What's he got on Rushbridger?

Also impressed you understood my completely mangled grammar too


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## Spion (Jun 23, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Jesus H Christ. What's he got on Rushbridger?


Extramarital fucking in the lavs at a past Guaridan xmas party perhaps?


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## butchersapron (Jul 5, 2010)

Glover's back at it:



> Turn away from the mob. Ignore the angry brigade. Let their spittle run down the walls. This is the moment for the coalition to rise above the yells of the left.



Yes, that's what concern for the poorest deliberately being targeted is you posh-boy. Just childish gob on the wall.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jul 5, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Glover's back at it:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's what concern for the poorest deliberately being targeted is you posh-boy. Just childish gob on the wall.



He really deserves to be billy clubbed to within an inch of his life.


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## ska invita (Jul 5, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Glover's back at it:
> 
> Yes, that's what concern for the poorest deliberately being targeted is you posh-boy. Just childish gob on the wall.





butchersapron said:


> _He_ should be broken. On the wheel.


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## stethoscope (Jul 5, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Glover's back at it:



What a cunt


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## Captain Hurrah (Jul 5, 2010)

I like the welfare thing:



> There must be no sense that one group is exploiting others: the rich the poor, or the poor (through welfare) everyone else.








Look at that face.  Needs a fist.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jul 5, 2010)

He was put on this earth to be hated by me.


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## kyser_soze (Jul 5, 2010)

Needs more than a fist.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jul 5, 2010)

Repeatedly.


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## kyser_soze (Jul 5, 2010)

Damn, can't find a pic of a knuckleduster with the word 'cunt' on it...


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## Jeff Robinson (Jul 5, 2010)

I'd just like to clarify that I want to see him clubbed to a pulp *progressively*. I believe the progressive beatings should be distributed across his body in as fair and just a manner as possible. No doubt he'll squeal and whine like a silly little baby as the blows are rained down upon him but he should bare in mind two things:

(1) he caused the need for the beating himself by being a prick and a cunt &
(2) the alternatives to his clubbing (i.e. him not being clubbed) would be far worse for both him and society at large.


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## Jeff Robinson (Jul 5, 2010)

I was progressively kicked to death the other day. It wasn't pleasant, but I knew it was for my own good in the long run.


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## kyser_soze (Jul 5, 2010)

I was mugged by a science over the weekend. Fair gave me a beating, and then asked for some money.


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## past caring (Jul 5, 2010)

Captain Hurrah said:


>



Looks like the kind of inadequate cunt that would have ended up in the gestapo.






(Cue London Calling doing his pieces)


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## Captain Hurrah (Jul 5, 2010)

Can you imagine his posho voice, crying while getting his face caved in?


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## caroline1973 (Jul 5, 2010)

i'll never forgive the guardian for changing its typeface, nor for supporting the iraq war.


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## shagnasty (Jul 6, 2010)

past caring said:


> Looks like the kind of inadequate cunt that would have ended up in the gestapo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very good they look alike but one is an actor who is probablly a nice chap and the other is a complete cunt


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## frogwoman (Jul 6, 2010)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I'd just like to clarify that I want to see him clubbed to a pulp *progressively*. I believe the progressive beatings should be distributed across his body in as fair and just a manner as possible. No doubt he'll squeal and whine like a silly little baby as the blows are rained down upon him but he should bare in mind two things:
> 
> (1) he caused the need for the beating himself by being a prick and a cunt &
> (2) the alternatives to his clubbing (i.e. him not being clubbed) would be far worse for both him and society at large.



I agree. And I'll go one step further. Tough action is needed. Tough but fair, and nobody must be exploited (either us, from his cuntish actions, or him, by being a cunt). I therefore think we should reduce the size of some of his body parts which formerly may have been deemed "essential" by 40%. After all, we cannot have him consuming more oxygen and taking up valuable space on the pavement than he needs. Never again will you walk into an upmarket gastro pub in Islington and say "Ah that's Julian Glover, his punchable face is an eyesore to look at and he deserves a good kicking" again. No instead he will be walking around in pain, difficulty and humiliation but of a tough, necessary and fair kind, both for the country and for him. Never again will you see this once these progressive and humane measures are revealed.


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## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2010)

Dizzy with success



> So, prosaically: since the election, the Commons has begun to function better. There are reasons to hope the improvement will continue. The government's official programme of constitutional reform, however, has little to do with it. It's the spirit of the place that counts.



Yes, that is what counts.


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## London_Calling (Jul 19, 2010)

I've only just twigged he's the civil partner of Matthew Fucking Parris . . . .

Anyway, this is a little revealing of the man's style - a short blog analysis of a Glover article from January:

Damned Lying Statistics, or What passes for Guardian journalism these days? :



> A couple of weeks ago I was complaining about the Guardian’s propensity for poorly written leading articles and downright misleading headlines.
> 
> If anything, things are getting worse.
> 
> The culprit this time is Julian Glover


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## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2010)

Merry xmas


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## Bakunin (Jul 19, 2010)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I'd just like to clarify that I want to see him clubbed to a pulp *progressively*. I believe the progressive beatings should be distributed across his body in as fair and just a manner as possible. No doubt he'll squeal and whine like a silly little baby as the blows are rained down upon him but he should bare in mind two things:
> 
> (1) he caused the need for the beating himself by being a prick and a cunt &
> (2) the alternatives to his clubbing (i.e. him not being clubbed) would be far worse for both him and society at large.


 
Would something like the infamous baseball bat scene from 'Casino' be what you have in mind?


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## shagnasty (Jul 20, 2010)

Joe Pesci always seems to come to a sticky end


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## scifisam (Jul 20, 2010)

This 'news' article about 'pledges of packed stadiums and tickets for the people' certainly reads like propaganda. There are no dissenting views at all, no comments about only Visa being accepted for ticket-buying, no critique of his claim that the Olympics task force 'looks like London,' just a copy of the press release.


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## Hocus Eye. (Jul 20, 2010)

*Why is the Guardian going down the pan?*

Because someone has finally pulled the chain. Good riddance to it. There is no point in the existence of a soft Liberal paper that hires right wing writers in a desperate attempt to follow what it thinks is the fashion in ideas and because it is chasing readers, any readers at all. It has parallels with the now notorious New Labour whose argument was that they needed to move to the right to get voters and could rely on left wingers to still support the party because 'there was nowhere else to go'. Lots of council elections since 1997 and the last General Election showed the flaw in that thinking.

The Guardian is dead. Let it lie and be buried. It belongs to a different age. Something new is needed, and the something new may have a Web presence greater than its printed version.


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## ernestolynch (Jul 20, 2010)

caroline1973 said:


> i'll never forgive the guardian for changing its typeface, nor for supporting the iraq war.


 
But it was okay to oppose the NHS when it was founded?


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## Riklet (Jul 20, 2010)

Guardian might have have a few shit writers and opinion pieces, and Glover does seem like a knobchops, but i'd still buy it over any other paper.  It's always readable, even when I disagree.

Had a quick look around on their site earlier n found one of the best articles i've read all year in CIF... Gary Younge ftw.


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## _angel_ (Jul 20, 2010)

ernestolynch said:


> But it was okay to oppose the NHS when it was founded?


 
How old are you if you can _remember _that?


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## Streathamite (Jul 20, 2010)

treelover said:


> the G needs to remember who buys its paper version, not them!


you mean - dripping wet wiberwals, SDP-lite types and all the other comfortable managerial centrists who wouldn't know a real class struggle or genuine moment of radical rage if it bunged a halfbrick at them?


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## Captain Hurrah (Jul 20, 2010)

Those types _think_ they're left-wing though, yes?


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## Streathamite (Jul 20, 2010)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Those types _think_ they're left-wing though, yes?


it's their great consolation in life (that and the Merc)


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## William of Walworth (Jul 31, 2010)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I'd just like to clarify that I want to see him clubbed to a pulp *progressively*. I believe the progressive beatings should be distributed across his body in as fair and just a manner as possible. No doubt he'll squeal and whine like a silly little baby as the blows are rained down upon him but he should bare in mind two things:
> 
> (1) he caused the need for the beating himself by being a prick and a cunt &
> (2) the alternatives to his clubbing (i.e. him not being clubbed) would be far worse for both him and society at large.






			
				frogwoman said:
			
		

> I agree. And I'll go one step further. Tough action is needed. Tough but fair, and nobody must be exploited (either us, from his cuntish actions, or him, by being a cunt). I therefore think we should reduce the size of some of his body parts which formerly may have been deemed "essential" by 40%. After all, we cannot have him consuming more oxygen and taking up valuable space on the pavement than he needs. Never again will you walk into an upmarket gastro pub in Islington and say "Ah that's Julian Glover, his punchable face is an eyesore to look at and he deserves a good kicking" again. No instead he will be walking around in pain, difficulty and humiliation but of a tough, necessary and fair kind, both for the country and for him. Never again will you see this once these progressive and humane measures are revealed.


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## William of Walworth (Jul 31, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> you mean - dripping wet wiberwals, SDP-lite types and all the other comfortable managerial centrists who wouldn't know a real class struggle or genuine moment of radical rage if it bunged a halfbrick at them?



Do fuck off up your own blathering arsehole you posturing twat.

There's plenty of genuine lefts/Trade Union stalwarts/people who completely correctly loathe and hate Glover types, who still at times at least _read_ the Guardian and get plenty worthwhile from it. 

Doesn't mean they own a Merc or live in posho parts of Islington you generalisation peddling idiot ... just _one or two_ of them may have been unemployed for 18 months in a deprived area of South Wales.

You cunt.


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## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2010)

No, he's right and his characterisation rings true - of the writers for sure. You saying that you know readers who are diff means nothing.

He's not a cunt. Grow up.


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## William of Walworth (Jul 31, 2010)

Riklet said:


> Guardian might have have a few shit writers and opinion pieces, and Glover does seem like a knobchops, but i'd still buy it over any other paper.  It's always readable, even when I disagree.
> 
> Had a quick look around on their site earlier n found one of the best articles i've read all year in CIF... Gary Younge ftw.



Thankyou.

Someone sensible.


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## William of Walworth (Jul 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> No, he's right and his characterisation rings true.



Not of me it doesn't. As you perfectly well know.

BTW I completely agree with you about Glover being bang out of order, and the Guardian being nearly as much so for giving hinm that much space. I hate him.

ETA : I've now seen your edit, and if I need to grow up (ahem!) maybe I also need to sober up too   ... but Streathamite's wild generalisations are also massively insulting to those Guardian readers who aren't painted by the same broad brush he insists on painting us with.

I'd rather hate the Mail and Telegraph personally .... not *all* its readers for sure, but a greater proportion of them than of those who read the Guardian ,...


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## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2010)

William of Walworth said:


> Not of me it doesn't. As you perfectly well know.
> 
> BTW I completely agree with you about Glover being bang out of order, and the Guardian being nearly as much so for giving hinm that much space. I hate him.



It doesn't have to be true of you to be true. 

In terms of who reads the paper it is true.


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## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2010)

William of Walworth said:


> Not of me it doesn't. As you perfectly well know.
> 
> BTW I completely agree with you about Glover being bang out of order, and the Guardian being nearly as much so for giving hinm that much space. I hate him.



May see you floating around tmv BTW


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## William of Walworth (Jul 31, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> May see you floating around tmv BTW



Fair nough 

Apols (to Streathamite too I guess) for an increeasingly rare drunken outburst from me on here ... off to bed now!!


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## treelover (Jul 31, 2010)

you have been unemployed for 18 months, quite a while these days, sorry to hear that William


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## London Eye (Jul 31, 2010)

It seems that the Guardian has always been a bit...well...wet.

Here's *Steve Bell*, who joined the Guardian in 1981, on his time there



> I've worked for the paper from the days when I regarded it as a bourgeois, SDP-loving crapsheet. In some ways nothing has changed, except that nowadays the SDP-lovers would be considered far too leftwing.



I totally agree about Julian Glover. So sad the direction the paper's going. I work within the walls, but it's only the old school subs and journalists who you can have a decent political discussion with. the rest are just dumbed down politically vacant. They vote New Labour and Tory not because they understand, but because these Oxbridge leaders writers tell them too. I really don't know the solution. Keep thinking that with some good union organisation things can change, but with cuts going on left, right and centre, everyone but the elite are expendable. What they are so short-sighted about is that a truly radical left-leaning, libertarian paper would be very popular. But that's not in the plan is it.

Naomi Klein is one of the only decent writers to have been printed in the paper. At least it can be said that as a paper they will print her. No other mainstream paper would.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 31, 2010)

London Eye said:


> It seems that the Guardian has always been a bit...well...wet.
> 
> Here's *Steve Bell*, who joined the Guardian in 1981, on his time there
> 
> ...


 

If you work in GNM, surely you know something about the newspaper industry? I mean, you're not Shevek, are you? So how on earth can you type that with a straight face?


----------



## London Eye (Jul 31, 2010)

Who says I had a straight face on when I typed that 

I'm talking about the possibility that a radical newspaper, given the same investment that the Guardian now gives its loss making paper, would succeed. I genuinely think it would. Why it hasn't happened begs a conspiracy question about Oxbridge elites and the manufacturing of consent. 

My opinion is, unless deliberately prevented, a mainstream paper that regularly had opinion of the like of Chomsky, Naomi Klein, Arundhati Roy, Vandana Shiva (physicist and environmental activist), Fritjof Carpra etc etc, if given the same marketing push as the Guardian now gives to its own rightwing wannabe crap, would sell very well. The public is crying out for such informative news and comment. And there are more than enough alternative businesses to buy advertising space to make it financially viable. It needs the kind of investment that the Guardian is pissing away right now. 

It's really tragic because there are quite a few radical types within the paper, but they are being systematically weeded out by the ever-sterile methods and market research statistical world that stops truly creative people from breathing, let alone working in any way conducive to radical thinking.

Of course I'm either being naive or provocative in saying what I'm saying. Up to you to decide which. I suppose I'm trying to convince myself it's worth staying even though I've personally been treated like shit for daring to make my politics obvious over the past few years. And believe me the NUJ within the walls haven't been much help either. 

But miracles are possible!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 31, 2010)

From what I understand, it's not so much that the print product is being given "investment" or a "marketing push", as that its losses are just about manageable while the organisation scrambles around to reinvent journalism as mutualised online content and to come up with a set of whizzy business ideas which will fund this. That means two things: a plurality of voices on CiF ranging from the ones you'd like through to the harsher, wonkish shades of progressive thought, and secondly a lot more content which is there to keep advertisers happy. A tighter political focus would be a very, very bad move. 

The radicals are being weeded out, I suspect, because they are the ones who think that their own opinions are important and are less likely to want to "curate" green ink nonsense from engaged online communities. 

But, hey. The industry wishes you well in your struggle.


----------



## London Eye (Jul 31, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> That means two things: a plurality of voices on CiF ranging from the ones you'd like through to the harsher, wonkish shades of progressive thought.



Are you describing Julian Glover as "progressive"? I really will have to stop you there.



Maurice Picarda said:


> The radicals are being weeded out, I suspect, because they are the ones who think that their own opinions are important and are less likely to want to "curate" green ink nonsense from engaged online communities.


 
Maybe their opinions are important, and maybe its the "whizzy business" types who should shut the fuck up and let some old school leftie journos have a say once in a while.

I get that they're scrambling around looking for a successful online business model. But they are trying to do so with stuffy business types who don't have the kind of leftfield thinking necessary to keep up with the hacker-type anarchist bods who have always been the pioneers of online content. P2P and wiki, the idea of sharing content, of forming communities from the bottom up. 

All of that scares the shit out of controlling corporate types, but if the Guardian heads don't start diversifying within their own walls, instead of homogenising as they are doing (there are more, not less Oxbridge clones within the walls than ever before) then they will die a death. And they will have no one to blame but themselves.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 31, 2010)

None of them curate any CIF opinions - they don't debate (who would?) and the more comments they get the better.

I don't know if radicals are being weeded out. The ratio of plodding Standard Journo Pieces to anything else seems about the same now as it was five or ten years ago. Glover is just a particularly bad outlier I think, specifically for the election and new government.


----------



## petee (Aug 1, 2010)

Shevek said:


> on web-tv Democracy Now is quite good but very US biased.


well it _is_ an american program, you know


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 6, 2010)

treelover said:


> you have been unemployed for 18 months, quite a while these days, sorry to hear that William



Thanks fella 

I've been employed again since early May mind, but one of the limitedly good things about being unemployed** was the time I had to check the paper properly.

**hours : *fantastic *  , 

Money, shite ... 

One of a fair few frustrating things about the G to me is their insistence on employing writers/ opinion columnists more or less _designed_ to infuriate their core readership. Who (core readership)  are IMO as much or even more, very unrich lefties like me as they are Islington media twats. The latter are there in the paper, far too much over represented, and deeply infuriating, but can Guardian haters PLEASE stop going out of their way to antagonise those *other* readers of the G who are sceptial dissidents and vigorous disagree-ers, please?


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## ernestolynch (Aug 6, 2010)

Why should the Gordain get special treatment?


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## kyser_soze (Aug 6, 2010)

> And there are more than enough alternative businesses to buy advertising space to make it financially viable.



Is this an assertion, or based on research? Not being snarky, genuinely interested.



> Who (core readership) are IMO as much or even more, very unrich lefties like me as they are Islington media twats.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/advertising/advertising-guardian-readership-profile

Sorry William, but the bulk of the Guardian's readership are media & public sector middle management and higher - 88% are ABC1s


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## articul8 (Aug 6, 2010)

don't disagree with the general thrust of this thread - but a good article today

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/05/david-ed-miliband-listen-to-your-father


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## sihhi (Aug 6, 2010)

articul8 said:


> don't disagree with the general thrust of this thread - but a good article today
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/05/david-ed-miliband-listen-to-your-father



It's a meaningless, absurd article - about creating a poular organisation but appealing to the Milibands to support it.

On the one hand applauding the updating of policymaking structures, yet bemoaning the results.
Understanding that Milibands won't, but appealing to them to oppose 'marketisation'.
Wanting a solid workplace and street level anti-cuts approach, yet calling on Westminster to do its bit.


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## articul8 (Aug 6, 2010)

It has no illusions in the Milibands - it is utilising the leadership contest to point out the vacuity of Ed's claim to want to "mobilise a movement" and other abstract words and pointing out the nature of the challenge.  But - like Ralph Miliband - it argues that the critique of parliamentary cretinism does not justify totally evacuating the field of electoral politics.  But it does mean understanding the need for extra-parliamentary workplace/community struggle in reshaping the institutional/ideological context in which political representatives operate.  

It says "*if * they were serious, they would be doing x, y and z..." - and urges activists inside and outside Labour to prioritise the real battles over phoney leadership contests.

The only substantial criticism I have is of the phrase "participatory state" - which sounds like something Hazel Blears could have argued but I think she means something like "radical transformation of the state through popular participation".


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## butchersapron (Aug 24, 2010)

All over - real headline today:

*Ronnie Wood announces solo album *

_Rolling Stone teams up with special guests including Slash and Flea for first solo album in almost a decade_


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## William of Walworth (Aug 24, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Is this an assertion, or based on research? Not being snarky, genuinely interested.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair point which I wouldn't dispute, I guess readers like me are in the minority. Still a fairly significant one though -- there's plenty of low/lowish paid public sector workers, TU people, Northerners  etc who _also_ read it.


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## treelover (Aug 25, 2010)

very surprised at that figure, I wonder if has changed in the last 25 years, I suspect it has...


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## butchersapron (Aug 26, 2010)

More ace investigative reporting today


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## ernestolynch (Aug 26, 2010)

Funny that, most spies are on Facebook.


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## Random (Aug 27, 2010)

articul8 said:


> The only substantial criticism I have is of the phrase "participatory state" - which sounds like something Hazel Blears could have argued but I think she means something like "radical transformation of the state through popular participation".


Why did I guess this was Hillary Wainwright before I even clicked on the link?   

I think to her 'participatory state' means all sorts of wishy washy things, including the porto allegre participatory budget, which all bundled together with a lashing made of pure hope equal Another World.


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## articul8 (Sep 15, 2010)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/14/cuts-blame-public-sector-local-councils

total stinking heap of shit today


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## William of Walworth (Sep 15, 2010)

That's Simon Jenkins! 

He's well known for being a raving rightie lunatic on a fair few few issues. The Guardian seems to believe that 'diversity'/'breadth of opinion' necessitates hiring contrarian, frothfoaming leftie bashers like him and Julian Glover.

The only half hearted half defence I'd offer, op-ed pages wise, is that they also have people like Seamus Milne, Gary Younge, etc writing good stuff.


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## Streathamite (Sep 15, 2010)

Maurice Picarda said:


> From what I understand, it's not so much that the print product is being given "investment" or a "marketing push", as that its losses are just about manageable .


kinda. 
The fact is, the web has hammered thecirculation of EVERY national 'paper (in fact, _every_ print publication, full stop - it's fucking _carnage_ out there in meejahland right now) but reader loyalty seems to have ensured the _Grauniad_'s circulation has fallen less than most. Plus, the website makes a lot, they own the Manchester Evening News, and AutoTrader.
Also, as a Trust, they have fewer shareholder issues, which gives them stronger finances.


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## articul8 (Sep 15, 2010)

William of Walworth said:


> they also have people like Seamus Milne, Gary Younge, etc writing good stuff.


 
agree with this - but doesn't there are loads of outlets for right wing shite - why give columns to idiotic cunts like Jenkins and Glover?


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## Maurice Picarda (Sep 15, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> they own the Manchester Evening News,.



Flogged to Trinity Mirror for two groats and a signed photo of Sly Bailey.


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## William of Walworth (Sep 15, 2010)

articul8 said:


> there are loads of outlets for right wing shite - why give columns to idiotic cunts like Jenkins and Glover?



I completely agree! In every respect ...


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## butchersapron (Sep 26, 2010)

There's tying and then there's:


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## ernestolynch (Sep 26, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> There's tying and then there's:


 
Lusty Heaven


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## marty21 (Sep 26, 2010)

They've started giving out free copies of the G2 section outside London tube stations for some reason - as if there weren't enough freebies being given out, can't understand why the Guardian want to give out a section of their paper, can't quite see it tempting people to buy the full paper.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 27, 2010)

> the new leader must make clear that he will give no special favours to the unions, must pledge to look again at Labour's unsatisfactory electoral college system, and must refuse to give a general endorsement to industrial disputes fought over public services in response to spending cuts, which Mr Miliband has acknowledged are to some extent inescapable. If Labour is to become again a party of government it has to be the party for public sector workers without being the party of them


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/27/labours-new-leader-ed-miliband-editorial


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## kyser_soze (Sep 29, 2010)

As I can't find the thread about nepotism at the Graun, this thread'll do. Noticed a column by a certain Oli de Botton, spawn of the Graun's philosopher in residence, Alain de Botton. I realise this is probably old news, but y'know...


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## William of Walworth (Sep 29, 2010)

*Wiliams by name ...*

Richard and Zoe. Surely some relations ...


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## butchersapron (Oct 5, 2010)

Glover actually argued on sunday that:



> The coalition is progressive, in that it is optimistic. It does not think the future will be worse than the past



Such intellectual rigour, such understanding of the historical use of the terms progressive.

I think we're going to need a Glover thread soon


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## kyser_soze (Oct 5, 2010)

I suspect that Dave&Gideon were more happy with the coverage they've got in the Guardian over the Child benefit thing, judging by the front pages of the Fail and Torygraph today


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## butchersapron (Oct 7, 2010)

Why? Do they have to make room for their sons and daughters? Read about someone watching a film.


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## butchersapron (Oct 11, 2010)

Not read yet but here's the latest ( i did notice  whilst skimming a horrible misuse of Rawls idea that the measure of any initiative should be does it help the poorest)







The left should recognise that equality is undesirable


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## Fruitloop (Oct 11, 2010)

Student-paper guff that is so light on substance it resists any kind of detailed analysis. I'd skip it if I were you.


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## butchersapron (Oct 11, 2010)

Wow, read it now. That really is gcse stuff. And not a pass either.


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## treelover (Oct 13, 2010)

today it has a editorial supporting the tuition fees, an article by a Tory saying LP ex ministers like Purnell should join the coalition, an article by Simon Jenkins which he describes opponents of Murdoch as whingers, CIF is infested by extreme Ayn Rand, let the poor starve' types, wtf is going on in Guardianland?


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## William of Walworth (Oct 13, 2010)

treelover said:


> wtf is going on in Guardianland?



Plenty of utterly shit articles, but what's new about thta?


Other days you have non Glover, non Jenkins op ed articles ... not thay less the true shiteness of the former, but y'know .....

Plenty of better, other stuff is still there as  well? .. stuff I'd be a fair bit less well informed without in the pretty limited time I have to catch up with stuff in the Graun and elsewhere. 

I post as someone who gets WELL pissed off with Glover and the like. As rightly said above, that recent waffle by him about 'the left' was embarassingly dire and weak from eery angle, but he's also been much more directly offensive and nasty at times as well.

But he's just one opinionator. There are others.


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## killer b (Oct 13, 2010)

stop it william. it's shit - give in.


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## butchersapron (Oct 27, 2010)

On a more serious note, _this_ is why the Guardian is going down the pan. Yesterday they ran an article basically saying Osborne had pulled off a masterstroke and brought £1 billion into the exchequer through a deal with the Swiss. It was basically an unchallenged treasury puff piece and it sat on the front page of the site all day long. I sent them an email about this, pointing out the wider implications highlighted on Richard Murphy's Tax Research site - basically this cedes tax sovereignity to the swiss, that it's a tax avoiders charter and so on . Today, the author of the original piece returns with another article that now says this is a £40 billion tax avoiders give-away. The author of both pieces  - Phillip Inman - is economics correspondent of the Guardian and Observer. 

Why did i need to send that email? Why was the original piece not looked at critically? Why were the wider implications not recognised? What sort of journalism is this?


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## articul8 (Oct 27, 2010)

Journalists (most of, there are a few honourable exceptions) are lazy shits who will happily recycle any old shit that's put in front of them.  They need spoon-feeding arguments and the right are better financed and better organised about doing it.


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## sihhi (Oct 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Why did i need to send that email? Why was the original piece not looked at critically? Why were the wider implications not recognised? What sort of journalism is this?



Why? Because Philip Inman is a right social-democrat, helping company managers attack the producers of this country, regularly is a figure at CBI conferences. He is also an adviser/ member of the Association of Business Schools.

http://twitter.com/phillipinman/status/2131685929

He manages to help the CBI praise the private equity parasites



> "The New Capitalism: The Case for Private Equity"
> 
> Keynote Speakers: John Cridland, CBI Deputy Director-General Phillip Inman, Business Correspondent, The Guardian Patrick Dunne, Group Communications Director, 3i
> Description: Privte Equity has a very important part to play in the dynamics of the UK economy and it is important that this should be communicated to a wider world. We have attracted three excellent speakers to cover various dimensions under the theme of "The New Capitalism: The Case for Private Equity".



He uses his free opinion columns to attack the PCS 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/09/civil-service-union-mark-serwotka-pcs



> Phillip took up his post as business writer on the Guardian in 1998 after almost a decade working for trade newspapers. He started out in the late 1980s on Computer Weekly before stints on the now defunct Business Age and the still thriving Accountancy Age. During his career he has pursued a wide range of stories from the worlds of industry and commerce, though most of his writing has focussed on the financial services industry. Pensions, private equity and tax also rank as constant themes. Educated at Liverpool John Moores University, he says he lives and breathes Guardian Values



He makes the kind of mistakes you spotted about pensions aswell, attacking the NUJ and ignoring crucial facts...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/sep/16/bbc-staff-should-grab-pensions-deal

which ordinary readers have to point out:



> This [Inman's] story is utter nonsense. The suggested new career average scheme at the BBC contains a terrible booby-trap which the BBC has failed to publicise - any money set aside in a member's pension pot would be revalued each year by no more than 2.5% - thus exposing members to the almost permanent devaluation of their contributions to the scheme because of inflation. By contrast, the current CA scheme at the BBC provides for unlimited inflation linking of accumulated pension pots while people are still saving. The compromise deal is not a complete capitulation - it is con.


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## treelover (Oct 27, 2010)

the comments leaving aside the bigots, misanthropes, etc on CIF are often much better than the OP

btw, well done BA for challenging Inman

there is a piece on ESA in todays G which needs challenging, etc


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## William of Walworth (Oct 28, 2010)

I wasn't aware of Philip Inman really, he seems to have passed me by for some reason. Ta for pointing him out.

On economics and City stuff respectively, I tend to find Larry Elliott and Nils Pratley more reliable/informative.

In response to my fellow beerdrinker killerb's earlier post up there -- I've never denied people like Glover etc are shit, and that it's shit of the Guardian to include them. All I'm mildly pointing out is that articles like theirs are not the whole picture. 

Also, like treelover mentions, a good proportion of CiF comments (usual online loons aide)  can be pretty good at times at challenging the more egrerious stuff.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 28, 2010)

Here's another Guardian arsehole for you mind -- Timothy Garton Ash acts as apologist for the cuts -- I've disliked him for a long time as it goes.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 28, 2010)

William of Walworth said:


> Here's another Guardian arsehole for you mind -- Timothy Garton Ash acts as apologist for the cuts -- I've disliked him for a long time as it goes.


 
So have I as it happens.


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## _angel_ (Nov 25, 2010)

More shit:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/nov/24/young-british-claim-disability-benefits
Young people on disability benefits is all down to a culture of _worklessness_. Not high unemployment esp youth unemployment, no way of every being able to afford a place of their own, sky high tuition fees. It's all the fault of the 'workless' again. Comparing our disability benefits with _Japan_ of all places, I didn't even think they had benefits there!


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## Captain Hurrah (Nov 25, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> So have I as it happens.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Nov 25, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> More shit:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/nov/24/young-british-claim-disability-benefits
> Young people on disability benefits is all down to a culture of _worklessness_. Not high unemployment esp youth unemployment, no way of every being able to afford a place of their own, sky high tuition fees. It's all the fault of the 'workless' again. Comparing our disability benefits with _Japan_ of all places, I didn't even think they had benefits there!



They don't much.  Not like here anyway.  Ignores the problems that causes too.


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## Maurice Picarda (Nov 25, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> More shit:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/nov/24/young-british-claim-disability-benefits
> Young people on disability benefits is all down to a culture of _worklessness_. Not high unemployment esp youth unemployment, no way of every being able to afford a place of their own, sky high tuition fees. It's all the fault of the 'workless' again. Comparing our disability benefits with _Japan_ of all places, I didn't even think they had benefits there!


 
That's news reporting, though. It's an OECD report, press released, and written up neutrally. With some crappy links.


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## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2010)

Glover's fingerprints all over this dishonest Observer editorial today - it's a de facto call to vote for the rise in tuition fees - last line gives the game away:

Abstention is not an option for the Lib Dems. It's time to grow up


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 5, 2010)

Fingerprints forsooth. Mulholland would have decided the party line on that.


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## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2010)

Then got Glover to write it.


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## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Glover is on the ball today , as timely as ever

_Coalition support is down, poll shows_


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## kyser_soze (Dec 29, 2010)

Possibly the weirdest article I've read on CiF for a while...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/27/europe-future-2040s


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## nino_savatte (Dec 29, 2010)

William of Walworth said:


> Here's another Guardian arsehole for you mind -- Timothy Garton Ash acts as apologist for the cuts -- I've disliked him for a long time as it goes.



Aye, he's deeply unpleasant that one.


----------



## kyser_soze (Dec 30, 2010)

Jesus fucking Christ. There's a groundswell of shit emanating from Farringdon (or wherever the Graun is based atm)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/30/beware-fairies-david-cameron-forests-sale

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/dec/29/europe-troubled-adolescent-grow-up

The whole 'My Europe' strand of articles is a torrent of guff. I was under the (mistaken) impression that columnist on Euro newspapers (esp German & French ones) were a cut above the hackery of the Street of Shame, but on some of the examples I've seen...


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## William of Walworth (Jan 3, 2011)

Sometimes I'm glad I still mostly just look at the paper version -- there seems to be an awful lot of _extra_ shit online that more often than not doesn't make the print version ...

Forest fairies my arse! 

And what the hell is all that crap by that Czech woman (post 143)?


----------



## treelover (Jan 3, 2011)

I like that article, it roots us...


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## butchersapron (Jan 19, 2011)

I wrote before about the guardians economic writers just swallowing pres releases as news, They did it again this morning. First headline - Unemployment figures drop, cynics wrong etc - a few hours checking and all the extra-employed are discovered to be temp census workers. Headline changes: UK youth unemployment heads towards 1 million. Useless.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 19, 2011)

Did anyone read Bindel's _mea culpa_ on protesting at I Spit on Your Grave? Worse than her usual.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 19, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Did anyone read Bindel's _mea culpa_ on protesting at I Spit on Your Grave? Worse than her usual.


 
Penny, behold your future.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jan 19, 2011)




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## belboid (Jan 19, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Did anyone read Bindel's _mea culpa_ on protesting at I Spit on Your Grave? Worse than her usual.


 
god that is awful.  'I was right in general, just not about this specific one'  My arse


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## kyser_soze (Jan 19, 2011)

I wonder how she feels about Bronson's 'Death Wish' movies - would they be a hymn to patriarchal authority or a warning to rapists that their victims monkey-scrotum-faced father's would be out...FOR BLOOD?!?!


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## butchersapron (Jan 19, 2011)

Was she on your rapeman picket b?


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## belboid (Jan 19, 2011)

y'knw, as I was typing that post up, I knew some bastard would come back with that one!


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## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2011)

Competition time - can anyone find a shallower piece than this two minute effort from Orr - looks and reads like a crap bulletin board post. This is what they're publishing now?

Is the EMA really a handout above criticism?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 20, 2011)

back of a fag packet stuff. Orr has always been shit though.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 20, 2011)

"I haven't read the rest of the thread, but..."


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## _angel_ (Jan 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Competition time - can anyone find a shallower piece than this two minute effort from Orr - looks and reads like a crap bulletin board post. This is what they're publishing now?
> 
> Is the EMA really a handout above criticism?


 
Ffs now the Guardian have bought totally into the "benefits are handouts" crap that you'd expect them to avoid at least saying out loud.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jan 20, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Ffs now the Guardian have bought totally into the "benefits are handouts" crap that you'd expect them to avoid at least saying out loud.


 
It reads more like an editorial in a local newspaper where they don't want to commit themselves directly to a point of view but slide up to it, back off then slide up again.


----------



## treelover (Jan 20, 2011)

'handouts' is not a neutral term and is very loaded, the Guardian is moving into Littlejohn territory on this...


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## kyser_soze (Jan 20, 2011)

This would be a small 1 column thing in the edumaction supplement I'd guess. Terrible piece. There is a debate to be held about the widespread eligibility of the EMA, but this isn't it.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 24, 2011)

>>treelover



treelover said:


> 'handouts' is not a neutral term and is very loaded, the Guardian is moving into Littlejohn territory on this...



Correction : *Deborah Orr* is moving into that territory, not denying at all it was shite article mind.

As it goes Orr has had  a bad track record generally on politics in her Thursday G2 column more or less since she was hired, she's fairly obviously right leaning, and has overtly been a Lib Dem apologist.

I'm as pissed off as anyone that the Graun employs her, and when they run op ed articles like that, but not all their writers/contributors are the same -- a while back Zoe Williams (who I usually don't have much time for) ran a piece very strongly defending claimants and attacking 'scrounger' type language in discussing them. And that's not the only example there's been.


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## kyser_soze (Feb 7, 2011)

Possibly _the worst_ article by the boy Glover. He really is a paid-for troll:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...79145DBF0B79=qPp35oB2+3MJj/MFkbIU+hMAAAAnCqIC


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 7, 2011)

This is a burden in the way that allowing people to walk down the road to the shops without charging them is a burden. Pathetic. Oddly enough. 2/3 of local councils are removing bus subsidies for the no-profit making services that benefit those on out of town estates or rural areas without 4 by 4s. No mention of that from Glover.







Note also the term 'welfarists'



> The bill for this is already £1bn a year, simply making up lost fares that most pensioners would be able to pay



Most people would be able to pay to walk to the shops.

I also like 'our buses' - like a) he uses them or b) the would apply the same logic to the NHS or any benefits he's paid to provide the rationale for destroying.

(Not that the bus companies should get anything at all for this scheme)


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 7, 2011)

> We shouldn't mourn all the losses. My Guardian colleague David McKie – the kind of man to delight in such things as the daily postbus from Lutterworth to Peatling Parva via Upper Bruntingthorpe – admits in his jolly book Great British Bus Journeys that some routes will die. If there aren't passengers, why should they run? Rural services are often embarrassingly empty, the network shaped by the travel patterns that became redundant decades ago.



What a complete and utter twat!


----------



## Dan U (Feb 7, 2011)

I fucking hate that man.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 7, 2011)

Maybe Julian could help means test pensioners for free transport. Make them work in the field for a week. If they die, well I don't know what could be more efficient & progressive than that. If they don't, give them a pass and cram them on the train. Bus. Whatever.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 7, 2011)

Start a war and only give the pensioners free bus travel if they survive it. I'd have thought thatd' be more your style mauvais


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 7, 2011)

Dan U said:


> I fucking hate that man.



So do I, hateful politics AND rubbish at arguing them at the same time. And that piece on free bus travel for oldies was *particularly* bad even by Glover's lamentable standards ...  

At least when Simon Jenkins comes out with his right wing stuff he tends to make a _somewhat_ better fist at arguing his point.

(Only a relative point that, as often as not I hate Jenkins too!)


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 7, 2011)

I've been reading some of simon jenkins' columns recently as people buy the sun and bring it in to work, and he wrote some guest articles for them (iirc), fucking hell they are bad !


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 7, 2011)

mauvais said:


> Maybe Julian could help means test pensioners for free transport. Make them work in the field for a week. If they die, well I don't know what could be more efficient & progressive than that. If they don't, give them a pass and cram them on the train. Bus. Whatever.



He's too unimaginitive and stupid to argue anything as entertaining as that ,...


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I've been reading some of simon jenkins' columns recently as people buy the sun and bring it in to work, and he wrote some guest articles for them (iirc), fucking hell they are bad !



Never looked at those -- what's his Sun style like then?

In the Guardian he makes a _bit _of an effort, far more than Glover does anyway.

And I  must admit I have some sort of time for someone who argues in favour of abolishing the Army here ... and also here 

I bet he wouldn't argue the above in the Sun ...

The point being is that Glover is thoroughly *predicatable* in his rubbish RW politics, Jenkins is RW too obv, but in less predictable ways ...

ETA : Just seen other posts now.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 7, 2011)

it might not have actually been the sun  one sec, im just looking for it


----------



## mauvais (Feb 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Start a war and only give the pensioners free bus travel if they survive it. I'd have thought thatd' be more your style mauvais


It is _part_ of my war, but my PR department say I should downplay certain elements. I'm not sure which ones but I guess it would include gassing the elderly.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 7, 2011)

My mistake

it was the evening standard, not the sun

here it is 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...politics-of-the-street---good-bad-and-ugly.do


----------



## Dan U (Feb 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> it might not have actually been the sun  one sec, im just looking for it


 
Was it the stannah? He is a bit more straight up right wing in that

Gruniad is a bit more libertarian stuff - sometimes entertaining

Eta - just saw your post


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> My mistake
> 
> it was the evening standard, not the sun
> 
> ...



Ahh OK. Cheers! Lazy basicly, he can be much better at history than that if he makes half an effort. As he blatantly didn't in that one.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> My mistake
> 
> it was the evening standard, not the sun
> 
> ...


 Shocking historical ignorance:



> London street politics have seldom been impressive. The Peasants' Revolt and the Gordon and Chartist riots were put down with ease. They caused the establishment a mild shudder, but no more.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 7, 2011)

Yeah, I know. What a fucking prick.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 7, 2011)

treelover said:


> yeah, right, maybe i just wasn't as politically sophisticated as you and others on here, leaving a 'sink' school with few qualification often ensures this.


 
Having exactly that background is what informed and formed my politics.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This is a burden in the way that allowing people to walk down the road to the shops without charging them is a burden. Pathetic. Oddly enough. 2/3 of local councils are removing bus subsidies for the no-profit making services that benefit those on out of town estates or rural areas without 4 by 4s. No mention of that from Glover.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jesus, I'd love to stamp on that face


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Feb 8, 2011)

It's a face you want to do bad things to, isn't it.


----------



## ernestolynch (Feb 8, 2011)

How can you lot read that shit? And pay for it too! Julian paedo lips Glover lol.

Just get the Mirror instead.


----------



## shagnasty (Feb 8, 2011)

ernestolynch said:


> How can you lot read that shit? And pay for it too! Julian paedo lips Glover lol.
> 
> Just get the Mirror instead.


 
I know the mirror as always been to the left, But is not very informative so sadly we have to turn to the guardian even having to put up with the likes of glover and jenkins


----------



## ernestolynch (Feb 8, 2011)

You liberals might have that urge.


----------



## killer b (Feb 8, 2011)

you can read the occasional decent article that gets published in it for free, online. usually someone from here links to it too, so you don't even have to go looking.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Feb 8, 2011)

"paedo lips."


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 8, 2011)

WOOHOO! I've had a post moderated out on CiF! It was the last post on the Chomsky article, and it was a bit sarky (basically summed up the article and contributions on the thread in three e-z points) but I didn't think it was nasty...


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 8, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> WOOHOO! I've had a post moderated out on CiF! It was the last post on the Chomsky article, and it was a bit sarky (basically summed up the article and contributions on the thread in three e-z points) but I didn't think it was nasty...


 About half of that site is full of barking mad American nutters, they never seem to get censored!


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 8, 2011)

It's probably because it was accurate about the comments you get following any Chomsky article. Altho I did also say that it was a 'by-the-numbers' Chomsky piece, which might have been what annoyed them.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2011)

Does anyone have the article where Matthew Parris - Julian Glover's partner - attacked cyclists and said they need to be deliberately ran over and beheaded or something? The one he was forced to apologise for.


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 8, 2011)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3097464.ece


----------



## grit (Feb 8, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3097464.ece


 
broken link,


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3097464.ece


 
paywall kyser - hence the asking!


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 8, 2011)

Hmm, working _pour moi_ - altho googling 'matthew parris cyclists' should bring it up first, and as it's archived, it's not behind the paywall.


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 8, 2011)

OK, works in Chrome, but not in my crappy IE6 window...

Weird.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Hmm, working _pour moi_ - altho googling 'matthew parris cyclists' should bring it up first, and as it's archived, it's not behind the paywall.


 
It is. Doesn't matter anyway - just trying to establish _form_.


----------



## little_legs (Feb 8, 2011)

this one? 



> What's smug, messy and deserves to be decapitated?
> 
> December 27, 2007, Thursday
> 
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2011)

Ta.

That's just piss-taking. What muppet would complain about that? And what muppet would take those complaints seriously. Own goal from me here by mentioning this.


----------



## articul8 (Feb 8, 2011)

Julian Glover is shagging Matthew Parris    Actually Guardian unusually Ok today.  At least Monbiot (unusually) and Paul Mason.


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 9, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Ta.
> 
> That's just piss-taking. What muppet would complain about that? And what muppet would take those complaints seriously. Own goal from me here by mentioning this.


 

There was a thread about it at the time! http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...gises/page4?highlight=matthew+parris+cyclists
So muppets like us, apparently.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 9, 2011)

I don't read those sort of threads.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2011)

**


----------



## Riklet (Feb 19, 2011)

Julian Glover needs to suffer death by knitting-needle, he's so insufferable... grrr


----------



## shagnasty (Feb 20, 2011)

=-=


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2011)

Looks like Glover won the internal battle - full steam ahead Mr Clegg. This is their pathetic _mea culpa_ - yes, the lib-dems were right to be wrong.



> The Lib Dems (i.e us) took an immensely difficult decision last year.


----------



## Balbi (Mar 9, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Looks like Glover won the internal battle - full steam ahead Mr Clegg. This is their pathetic _mea culpa_ - yes, the lib-dems were right to be wrong.


 
That's remarkable.

Lib Dem's are standing up for rights. You have the right to increased taxation, unemployment, homelessness, social breakdown, poor education, inflated food prices....


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2011)

It's astonishing isn't it? That they can argue after Barnsley (and Salford and Cardiff) that the coalition might be the making of the lib-dems.



> The Lib Dems took an immensely difficult decision last year. Whether it will make them or finish them – or a bit of both – remains to be seen.


----------



## Balbi (Mar 9, 2011)

The only parallel I can draw is that the graun must be comparing suicide to murder. Either the coalition will make them commit suicide, or get them murdered


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 9, 2011)

where were the graun pre election? agreeing with nick?

at least with the mirror you know they aere always going to love up to labour (to the point of cheering on fucking mandleson ) but the graun is all over the shop.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2011)

Balbi said:


> The only parallel I can draw is that the graun must be comparing suicide to murder. Either the coalition will make them commit suicide, or get them murdered


 
Notice the censorship they've done on the comments bit. Have a look at the times of the last few posts. Rats. Fucking rats.


----------



## kyser_soze (Mar 11, 2011)

*Dictators tremble! Laurie Penny tells it how it is*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/11/radical-squat-gaddafi-mansion


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 4, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/04/coalition-hold-nerve-nhs-reform-public-services

Just what the fuck? We need to "reform" the NHS (ie kill it) because it would look bad for the coalition not to, even if they are bad ideas????? Did I miss something?


----------



## trevhagl (Apr 4, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/04/coalition-hold-nerve-nhs-reform-public-services
> 
> Just what the fuck? We need to "reform" the NHS (ie kill it) because it would look bad for the coalition not to, even if they are bad ideas????? Did I miss something?


 
what's a wanker like that doing in the Guardian?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

'Doing in'? He writes their leaders and has dictated their pro-lib-dem pro coalition position. He runs things. He's no just in there by chance.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

This is the Guardians job now, to whip the coalition from the right.


----------



## Dan U (Apr 4, 2011)

I didn't realise he writes their leaders 

Actually can I check what you mean, do you mean the editorial leader or the named guff he writes? Totally aware of the latter.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

Why would anyone take advice on how to proceed from someone whose just helped your party to sub10% ratings i don't know. Is there anyone writing a more consistent record of telling the lib-dems how to get it wrong than Glover? Remember his _hold the students close, they won't really mind the tuition fees_ rise nonsense? Why is he employed>


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

Dan U said:


> I didn't realise he writes their leaders
> 
> Actually can I check what you mean, do you mean the editorial leader or the named guff he writes? Totally aware of the latter.


 
The actual leaders. And he had a hissy fit about being asked to write any-tory/anti-lib-dem stuff where the editor totally capitulated - he runs things now.


----------



## Random (Apr 4, 2011)

Dan U said:


> do you mean the editorial leader or the named guff he writes? Totally aware of the latter.



AFAIK all the senior journalists in a news room usually take it in turn to write the anonymous editorial at the start of a paper.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

Random said:


> AFAIK all the senior journalists in a news room usually take it in turn to write the anonymous editorial at the start of a paper.


 
Not him, he was hired specifically to write leaders. Why? How? Who pulled the strings? He's not even got a record of journalism behind him.


----------



## Santino (Apr 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Why would anyone take advice on how to proceed from someone whose just helped your party to sub10% ratings i don't know. Is there anyone writing a more consistent record of telling the lib-dems how to get it wrong than Glover? Remember his _hold the students close, they won't really mind the tuition fees_ rise nonsense? Why is he employed>


 
Clearly a Marxist fifth columnist.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 4, 2011)

He's getting a round of fucks in the comments. Uni fees is one thing but mostly everyone will have used the NHS and most of those will have been helped by it. In the same way that most people shrugged when told of cuts, they'll feel strongly about the NHS. I hope.


----------



## treelover (Apr 4, 2011)

Glover's reply has only one recommend!, how much longer can the G go on alienating its core readership, 

unless its repositioning itself, but surely it has a constitution...


----------



## Random (Apr 4, 2011)

treelover said:


> unless its repositioning itself, but surely it has a constitution...


 Surely any Guardian constitution will include a written committment to liberalism?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

Random said:


> Surely any Guardian constitution will include a written committment to liberalism?


 
I think you misread - _nepotism_.


----------



## Fruitloop (Apr 4, 2011)

I know it's pretty old news now, but I have just been appalled reading the comments on the article below:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ritish-maternity-wards-in-crisis-2261403.html

I don't think I've encountered this level of outright nastiness even on the tabloid comment boards. Is this really representative of a significant portion of public opinion, or just an unpleasant feature of CiF?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Not him, he was hired specifically to write leaders. Why? How? Who pulled the strings? He's not even got a record of journalism behind him.


 
Does anybody know any more about this than they did when he first appeared? Surely there must be gossip around.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Does anybody know any more about this than they did when he first appeared? Surely there must be gossip around.


 
I can find nothing, and believe me, i have looked.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> I know it's pretty old news now, but I have just been appalled reading the comments on the article below:
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ritish-maternity-wards-in-crisis-2261403.html
> 
> I don't think I've encountered this level of outright nastiness even on the tabloid comment boards. Is this really representative of a significant portion of public opinion, or just an unpleasant feature of CiF?


 
Wouldn't say it was typical  -to me that looks like a couple of right wingers seeing if they could wind up what they think are lefties.


----------



## Fruitloop (Apr 4, 2011)

You're probably right. Maybe it's just an issue that I'm currently sensitive about, being just about to commit ms loop to the tender mercies of the UK maternity services again - and the first experience was pretty disastrous to be honest.

CiF seems to be unable to deal with these fuckheads though, it's getting to the point where if I read an article I have to internally recite the mantra 'don't read the comments, don't read the comments'.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2011)

That's the Indie, not CiF. (CiF does have a lot of trolls but they're often quite old hands - the Indie site seems to get more drive-by trolling IME, probably because you don't need to sign up.)


----------



## Fruitloop (Apr 4, 2011)

It's effective trolling on CiF though, in that the result is that there is very little of interest on there at all, just unpleasant r/w insinuation and responses to it.


----------



## kyser_soze (Apr 4, 2011)

Most of the posts on the INDEPENDENT discussion would've been moderated out on CiF. In most of the discussions on CiF that get trolled like that people just tend to ignore them if they're an unknown name, or either engage them or not if they're someone like, say, MoveAnyMountain.

That isn't CiF.


----------



## Random (Apr 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I think you misread - _nepotism_.


 no need for any written committment


----------



## Dan U (Apr 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The actual leaders. And he had a hissy fit about being asked to write any-tory/anti-lib-dem stuff where the editor totally capitulated - he runs things now.


 
Wow. Cheers for that.

I'm meeting a mate for lunch later this week who works there, will make further enquiries!


----------



## Dillinger4 (Apr 4, 2011)

> Get ready for a bare knuckle battle for hearts and minds. Direct from a string of verbal victories, please welcome in the red corner, the Guardian's unbeaten intellectual heavyweight champion of free speech, one of the UK's foremost thinkers and environmentalists, and polemicist supreme



http://www.guardian.co.uk/extra/2011/feb/23/george-monbiot


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

Lord Monbiot urged a lib-dem vote as well.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Why would anyone take advice on how to proceed from someone whose just helped your party to sub10% ratings i don't know. Is there anyone writing a more consistent record of telling the lib-dems how to get it wrong than Glover? Remember his _hold the students close, they won't really mind the tuition fees_ rise nonsense? Why is he employed>


 
Is he secretly hoping to destroy the libdems? After all his partner is Matthew Parris and loads of his mates are surely tories.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 4, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/04/coalition-hold-nerve-nhs-reform-public-services
> 
> Just what the fuck? We need to "reform" the NHS (ie kill it) because it would look bad for the coalition not to, even if they are bad ideas????? Did I miss something?


 
Yep, you missed the fact that cunts like Glover probably barely use the NHS, so don't believe that it's demise would be that much of a big deal.

That and he's a typical neo-lib. He *knows* that "the market" will take care of us, and do it better than some fusty public service.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 4, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yep, you missed the fact that cunts like Glover probably barely use the NHS, so don't believe that it's demise would be that much of a big deal.
> 
> That and he's a typical neo-lib. He *knows* that "the market" will take care of us, and do it better than some fusty public service.


  Well yes.. the piece about how pensioners don't need bus passes made it obvious, where he lives (posh part of derbyshire) I'm sure all the pensioners he knows don't need or use their bus travel entitlement.


----------



## sihhi (Apr 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I can find nothing, and believe me, i have looked.


 
We need better ontacts in Guardian's NUJ.
All the leftwing journalists are in NUJ Freelance!


----------



## sihhi (Apr 4, 2011)

Madelene Bunting was on top form again bigging up Blue Labour. Maginificent effort for something that has zero content.



> There are no policy prescriptions, that's not the point. But among their ideas are the raw materials from which Miliband could create a narrative – that much vaunted political necessity – with which to build renewal. Given how their ideas are creeping into his recent comments, it's obvious he's listening closely.


----------



## cemertyone (Apr 4, 2011)

sihhi said:


> We need better ontacts in Guardian's NUJ.
> All the leftwing journalists are in NUJ Freelance!



There`s not a single jurno in the Guardian newsroom that has not been the product of 
a "private/public" education...A while a go one of the winners/losers of the Apprientice was asked to do
an editors edition...when she asked the whole newsroom for a show of hands as to who had not been to 
a private school...there was total fucking silence...except for the cleaner present....
And any so-called "centre-left" newspaper that devotes 4 pages to financial news over its international coverage....
can go fuck itself..any one who buys the guardian is a mug....IMHO...


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 4, 2011)

sihhi said:


> Madelene Bunting was on top form again bigging up Blue Labour. Maginificent effort for something that has zero content.



Never liked her. At other times she's been obsessed with 'militant fundamentalist atheists' 

The above piece about Labour was just bland by comparison ....


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2011/apr/05/fukushima-nuclear-stop-radiation-ideas

Fukushima nuclear crisis: Send us your ideas for stopping radiation leaks

WTF?

(I know it has a proviso about "experts" but really? Be fucking journalists - ask people, report, and not just the fucking nuclear lobby!)


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2011)

This is it


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2011)

Don't do themselves any favours do they?


----------



## andy2002 (May 10, 2011)

Surprised no one has mentioned the outrageous amount of coverage the rag gave the Royal Wedding. Pages and pages in the Saturday edition and then a special fucking supplement, too. So much for their republican credentials.

Oh yeah, and this wanker...

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/29/royal-wedding-leftwing?INTCMP=SRCH


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2011)

i don't know anything about footy, but this is the most poorly researched, ill concieved article on it i've ever read...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/12/blackpool-rivalry-preston-wigan


----------



## articul8 (May 13, 2011)

Can only assume this twat has never been on a North End game, ever.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2011)

or even spoken to anybody who's lived in either town. or even anybody who's visted.


----------



## articul8 (May 13, 2011)

It's like saying that Rangers fans have more rivalry with Partick Thistle than Celtic.


----------



## embree (May 20, 2011)

Only just seen this = fucking hell that's poor. Anybody who's been around lower division football for any length of time knows that PNE and Blackpool detest each other! Not being in the same division means fuck all, there's loads of rivalries that go uncontested for years but which remain very heated - often even more so when separated by one or more divisions

He goes on to say Stoke are geographically isolated in terms of rivals in the PL - I know a few Wolves fans who reserve some of their ire for them, behind WBA and Blues admittedly


----------



## butchersapron (May 24, 2011)




----------



## Idris2002 (May 24, 2011)

Did anyone see that review of Kissinger's book on China in the saturday G:? Apparently Kissinger claims that he helped stop a nuclear exchange between the USSR and the PRC in 1969. The dick writing the review said that this should have been allowed to go ahead, because it would have helped America win in Vietnam.



> Kissinger tells us that this de facto alliance was personally decided by Nixon in August 1969 just as the Soviet Union was preparing to launch a pre-emptive nuclear attack on China. Nixon had decided the Soviets were the more dangerous party and that it was against American interests for China to be "smashed" in a Chinese-Soviet war. "It was a revolutionary moment in US foreign policy," Kissinger explains. "An American president declared we had a strategic interest in the survival of a major communist country." . . .
> 
> 
> if Beijing and Moscow had gone to war, surely it would have been to America's great advantage. America might have emerged victorious from the Vietnam war and saved Cambodia from the horrors of Khmer Rouge rule. The long-standing threat to South Korea and Taiwan might have disappeared and the Soviet gains of the 1970s, such as in Angola or Afghanistan, might not have been made.



Pity about the millions who would have died in the ensuing nuclear holocaust, mind. But you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/may/21/on-china-henry-kissinger-review


----------



## butchersapron (May 24, 2011)

Jasper Becker


----------



## embree (May 24, 2011)

Yes, kill millions in a nuclear holocaust in order to save Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge.

Ummmm


----------



## Idris2002 (May 24, 2011)

embree said:


> Yes, kill millions in a nuclear holocaust in order to save Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge.
> 
> Ummmm


 
Why it makes perfect sense - the logic is impeccable.

Also, this Russia-China exchange of canned genocide: it doesn't seem to be mentioned in the other reviews of this Henry K. book. And why have we not heard about it before now?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Why are they bothering with this palin bollockery?

Every other fucking story on the site is about some unknown yank and something irrelevant.


----------



## London_Calling (Jun 11, 2011)

In case they find something that fucks her up permanently. Because that would be helpful.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Why are they bothering with this palin bollockery?
> 
> Every other fucking story on the site is about some unknown yank and something irrelevant.



Because there are more anglophone liberals in the US than in the UK and they are worth more collectively in online ad revenue.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> In case they find something that fucks her up permanently. Because that would be helpful.


After all the released emails have been vetted and redacted by her lawyers. Bound to manage to do that. 

I meant more in terms of who are they expecting to buy the paper on this basis - or on the basis of ridiculously prominent stories about unknown senators sending unsolicited emails to someone, or some unknown US tv person doing something no one cares about.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Because there are more anglophone liberals in the US than in the UK and they are worth more collectively in online ad revenue.


 
Right, that's a far better answer.


----------



## London_Calling (Jun 11, 2011)

Fair point, she's the top 6 stories currently:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/usa


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Now they've got this bollocks up:

Groupon: The fight for social justice

About a group that's just gone public in a situation that it knows means it's going to fuck up pension funds, as road is fast running out. Mental.


----------



## London_Calling (Jun 11, 2011)

And to think I had you down as a cert for the Groupon personal grooming offer.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Who the hell is in charge of this thing today - now we get as the lead from the liob-dem supportinmg paper:

Clock ticking as Labour leader Ed Miliband starts fightback (18:59), with a sidepiece Was Ed Miliband the right choice to lead Labour? (published on sat at 18:52). Lead political writer and his fag - what's going on?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 11, 2011)

The Obs -where Helm lives - was never a lib-dem supporting paper; traditionally it was much more loyally Blairite than the Graun.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

Some tripe about gifford and pics today. 

In small print: ****


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 13, 2011)

Sarah Palin emails: what they tell us

Beyond you being _fucked_. A whole weeks build up, two days of _its almost here,_ two days of _OMG it's here_ and - fuck all. Not a fucking sausage. Nothing.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 13, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Because there are more anglophone liberals in the US than in the UK and they are worth more collectively in online ad revenue.


 
Spot on. Its ambition is to be 'the worlds leading liberal voice' or some such bollocks.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 13, 2011)

What's the US ad profile then? What do we not see?


----------



## ernestolynch (Jun 13, 2011)

Someone's spending too much time on the Gordian website...even Billy Baked Bean doesn't go on it for 3 hours a day.


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 13, 2011)

I like this picture caption. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jun/13/dj-roni-size-denies-attacking-partner


----------



## shagnasty (Jun 14, 2011)

The latest abc,s for the guardian sales 

The Guardian 	263,907 	288,917 	-8.66 
that copies sold ,last years figures,percentage drop in sales

full abc,s for all papers 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/table/2011/may/13/abcs-national-newspapers


----------



## Imagine (Jun 16, 2011)

Did you see the centre pages of today's Guardian?

A massive advert for 'income protection provider' Unum.  

The day after the Welfare Reform Bill was passed!

Part of a a six month joint Unum/Guardian campaign called 'Work:Life UK'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worklifeuk/the-guardian-unum-work-life-uk-survey


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 16, 2011)

So? Newspapers have been taking advertising for quite some time.


----------



## Imagine (Jun 16, 2011)

This is an ersatz war on poverty. It is less about social justice than the ambitions of politicians. Both parties have an almost pathological contempt for dependency. No one is sick enough not to work. They help promote the myth that the majority of people on incapacity benefit are not ill. There is no evidence for this generalisation. But it has not stopped them peddling it. They have swallowed the ideas of the private insurance industry whose attempts to reclassify illnesses like ME are designed to reduce their claims payments. Sickness is redefined as a deviant social role, and mental illness becomes "subjective". *The American insurance giant Unum has been at the forefront of this culture war. Its centre at Cardiff University has been a powerful influence  on the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and the reform of incapacity benefit.*

Both parties embrace the mantra that for the poor and sick "work is good for you". "Work works", says James Purnell. "There is overwhelming evidence that being in work is a key component of mental and physical wellbeing", states the Conservative green paper, Work for Welfare. The mantra is repeated endlessly by government to justify its workfare policies. *The source of this generalisation is again Unum's centre at Cardiff. Gordon Waddell, an orthopedic surgeon with academic interests in the field of back pain, was commissioned by the DWP to write Is Work Good For Your Health and Wellbeing?

Waddell answered in the affirmative. Perhaps not surprising given his role as scientific adviser to the US company Medrisk. Medrisk works with insurers like Unum to help them reduce medical costs and "improve" their claims outcomes.*

There are two groups of casualties in this "war". The first is people living in poverty. They have become the scapegoats for Labour's protracted failure to reduce inequality, and the targets of Conservative plans to downsize the welfare state. *Their fate is to be a market for corporate profitmaking,* trapped by a punitive, under-resourced welfare system, rising unemployment and a chronically insecure labour market.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 16, 2011)

If Unum thinks that advertising with the Guardian will stop it from accepting nutty diatribes against its business model from lefty academics, they have no idea how the wretched rag works. Their benevolence will spur the hacks on to an antagonistic frenzy. Expect Unum's corporate intranet to be hacked any day and the contents posted up by the Graun for crowdsourced scrutiny.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 16, 2011)

Not the best article ever, by any means at all, but this op-ed pages piece by Tom Clark, having a fairly reasoned (albeit too much SE-oriented) pop at the £26,000 benefits cap, was OK. Note that I'm not saying more than 'OK'.

There have, pretty occasionally, been far better articles opposed to claimant demonising in the Guardian -- do any Guardian haters on here ever read Amelia Gentleman on that subject?? 

*But* (my main point here). The above is something you'd *never, ever, ever* see in the Sun or Mail. 

Which reminds me (surrounded as I am *EVERY FUCKING DAY* by claimant hating bigots spouting off at work, mindlessly mirroring the headlines and sensationalisation of those claimant hating tabloids) why the Guardian** will *never, ever, ever* be as bad as those scumsheets.

**For all the Guardian's *very obvious* faults and shiteness, blah blah blah, yada yada  -- massively boring caveat added before any Urban-cliche drivelling loon calls me a 'Guardian worshipper' or whatever  .... 

Try working EVERY DAY with Sun and Mail readers, and being FAR outnumbered by them,  you sectarian losers! 


With that mini side rant over, I have to admit that I have no idea who Tom Clark is or what his general politics are or whether he's Labour or not and frankly I don't give a flying fuck.

I just think that Urban-posting Guardian loathers would be better off redirecting their 'liberal'-demonising caricature-rants aimed at the Guardian, towards the REAL enemy instead : bigots who write on the Sun and Mail, and even more (IMO, in my very drunken O) redirecting them towards the ignorant bigotted twazzocks who mindlessly parrot their headline cliches. 

*Every day around you.* 

At work (as in my case) or in the street or in the pub. 

Or -- exciting alternative offer!!! Attempt 'discussing' benefit (and foreigner!!!!) related issues with such bigot-twazzocks reasonably and patiently .... if you do, you will *lose the will to live*, guarenteed ......

</Am pretty thoroughly pissed but  x 10,000 >


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 14, 2011)

Somewhat less pissed tonight, but the above is bumped for the 'benefit' of deeply weird 'hate the Guardian above any other rag' types. The fucking weirdoes. 

Had any Sun/Mail fuelled rants about lazy scroungers on benefits today have any of you? 

I have, I have, I have -- three times so far this week. I have to endure that Scum/Wail fuelled shite nearly every day from tabloid headline believing (WANTING to believe!) twazzock scum.

Stuff about gypsies, foreigners, Muslims ('terrorists' etc.), Poles, etc etc etc etc yada yada yada Littlejohn yada  Day after day after day .... since October ..... and I've got to go back in tomorrow ....

Against  ignorant scum like those tabloid regurgitating arseholes (THEM, the REAL fucking enemy!), the Guardian is my only and best daily friend at times.

Oh yes, and the evil liberal Giuardian demonizes claimants just as badly as the Daily Mail does. True Urban fact.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 14, 2011)

*The REAL enemy ...*

And I don't give half a percent of a fuck if my 'colleagues' are 'working class'**

They're still half educated opinionated loudmouthed bigots full of ignorant fucking shite who drivel Tory taboid fulled moron-bollocks. 

Well I say : *No excuses*.

**Arguable one way or t'other, but I can't be arsed.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 15, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Oh yes, and the evil liberal Giuardian demonizes claimants just as badly as the Daily Mail does. True Urban fact.


 
They're less honest about it and spent all the time Labour were in power either ignoring the war against people on benefits, or trying to make it sound as if it was somehow all about "helping" them.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 16, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> They're less honest about it and spent all the time Labour were in power either ignoring the war against people on benefits, or trying to make it sound as if it was somehow all about "helping" them.


 
precisely, i'd rather have an enemy who is up front and i can see than a pretend friend who's only too happy to stab me in the back when it suits them


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 17, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> They're less honest about it and spent all the time Labour were in power either ignoring the war against people on benefits, or trying to make it sound as if it was somehow all about "helping" them.



I'm (nearly) sober now, and I did go somewhat OTT above, but my MAIN point above still stands.

Endure the people I have to work with, and you'll understand why I don't give too much if any of a shit right now about the Guardian's _comparatively_ fewer failings on subjects like this (Graun-failings I've never denied on here incidentally).


Tabloid headline fuelled shite will always remain for me far worse, *especially when you have to endure ignorami regurgitating it in your face at work several times a week*. 

I honestly don't give a fuck if the Mail or Scum are more 'honest' (arguable point anyway  ).

They're still full of loathesome hateful shite, and they bellow far worse shite against claimants (and against other demonised categories) than the Guardian's even capable of doing.

And the Guardian has contributors like Amelia Gentleman, and some other writers who sometimes write against the 'claimants = scroungers' consensus.

You will never ever see anything demythologising in that way in the Mail or Sun. 

*Ever.*  


And the Guardian also has Nick Davies


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

This 380 word count pointless thing is on their frontpage - why?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This 380 word count pointless thing is on their frontpage - why?


 
Only the front page of the website -- didn't notice it in today's paper version, and definitely not on the front page.

(Unless it's lined up for tomorrow's -- always possible).


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

Yeah, but why? It's tits on the moon stuff.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This 380 word count pointless thing is on their frontpage - why?


It looks to be a thinly disguised advertisement for a Horizon programme on BBC 2 next Wednesday. I guess the Guardian has been given a press release by the Beeb or the programme makers looking for free publicity, and the Grauniad has gobbled up the tasty titbit to fill up some space. It is still the Silly Season although Parliament got called back.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah, but why? It's tits on the moon stuff.



Agreed! And with Hocus.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah, but why? It's tits on the moon stuff.



Not going to argue! Looked like bollocks.

Agree with Hocus too.


----------



## belboid (Sep 1, 2011)

they run basically the same article every few years. a mate had the last one on the wall in the office for a while, which went down well.  cos it's a devillishly funny story, they think.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 1, 2011)

Of course, nobody who reads and appreciates the Guardian would be a _boss_ anyway. They might be team leaders or department heads, but you know, that's not the same - they're definitely on the side of the workers against those (scientifically proven) psychopaths in management! Within reason.


----------



## lazyhack (Sep 2, 2011)

Enjoyed Toynbee's car crash live Q&A on class yesterday, she earns £130k and thinks that is 'normal'.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2011)

Did anyone ask her which top end fee paying school she sends her kids too?


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 2, 2011)

Now the Universal Credit is _a bad thing_. This'd be the same Univeral Credit the Guardian support.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 2, 2011)

lazyhack said:


> Enjoyed Toynbee's car crash live Q&A on class yesterday, she earns £130k and thinks that is 'normal'.



That was in response to that blogger Guido bloke wasn't it?  Or someone pretending to be him.


----------



## lazyhack (Sep 2, 2011)

Yeh, an honest conservative again trumps a liberal.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 2, 2011)

So she's Labour's Jeffrey Archer. Does anyone care anymore?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 2, 2011)

lazyhack said:


> an honest conservative


Lol.

Toynbee's thing about social mobility came on the radio the other day, though, and I had to turn it off after a few minutes. It seemed to be her wandering around saying "well, I'm immensely privileged, why aren't other people? Is it the Tories?" Have a think.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 2, 2011)

Shevek said:


> I used to buy the Guardian everyday. The I started buying the FT because Noam Chomsky said it was the only paper that told the truth but I found it a bit obtuse. I started buying the Morning Star but its a bit like Orthodox communism.
> 
> I like some of the articles in the Big Issue, there was one recently about the Chinese communist party. I am saving up for a subscription to the anarchist magazine Freedom.
> 
> Its not a magazine or paper but on web-tv Democracy Now is quite good but very US biased.


I'm sure if you write to Freedom and plead poverty they will give you a discount.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2011)

lazyhack said:


> [re the Toynbee/Guido Fawkes thing]Yeh, an honest conservative again trumps a liberal.



Guido Fawkes is a particularly loathesome libertarian Tory twat (in general).

Not saying PT's any better ... But still.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 2, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Not saying PT's any better ... But still.


You, are, though; you'll always take that side as a default.  You really need to stop seeing the Guardian as a part of who you are.  It's isn't.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 2, 2011)

He _is_ a loathsome cunt though, let's be clear about this. Or at least does a very good impression of one on the Internet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He _is_ a loathsome cunt though, let's be clear about this. Or at least does a very good impression of one on the Internet.


He is.  And he hardly "trumped" Toynbee.  He just said "if you're so keen on equality, why are you so rich?"  Which is a stupid fucking question, whomever it is asked of.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 3, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> You, are, though; you'll always take that side as a default. You really need to stop seeing the Guardian as a part of who you are. It's isn't.



See my posts on the previous page concerning some of the people I'm obliged to work with/often encounter more generally, here in Swansea. I'll always identify more with the Guardian (with all its many, various and undenied by me faults yada yada) than with Mail/Sun/Express-headline style out and out ignorance and bigotry.

When you get that bellowed in your hearing by a vocal few most days and have to button it because you're getting on with your job and in minority (seemingly) of one, it's intimidating and depressing.

The Guardian _by comparison to that_ is mainly pretty civilised.

I'm really not defending Polly Toynbee, I object to an awful lot of what she writes. But re the Guardian more generally, it's what I'II read as a welcome andidote to having to endure the sort of stuff spouted by the people above in part. The better Guardian stuff anyway -- and there's a fair bit -- their recent coverage of the Nadine Dorries/abortion stuff has been sound for eg (IMO).

Plus it's pretty easy for me to filter the well useful facts you pick up from the Gardian from the nonsense in there.

So you've got me bang to rights in a way -- just maybe not the way you think perhaps.

I tend to see the main real enemy as elsewhere, and I'll plead fully guilty to that I'll still go along with a fair few of the criticisms of the Guardian on here mind, cos they're valid and well taken.

My only real (intended) point in the post you've responded to to is that Guido Fawkes is still an odious twat.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 3, 2011)

Morning, Will.

All newspapers are establishment papers; the Guardian is no different, in that respect, to the others you mention.  It is owned by the owning class.  It is produced in the interests of its owners.  Its job is to sell a readership to its advertisers.  It does that by targeting an audience, and providing the type of content it deems that that audience will want.

It is therefore possible to read _any_ newspaper with that in mind, and extract useful information.

Now to tone and content.  The Guardian is written by liberal private school FPs, for an audience it thinks shares that life experience and world-view.  I find that every bit as nauseating (though in different ways) to things I find nauseating about other papers.  The Guardian, to me, does indeed represent a branch of the real, main enemy.  A pox on all its publishing houses.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 3, 2011)

I don't care about Polly Toynbee, but Simon Hoggart's byline pic alone marks him out as a wanker. That Hugh Muir's another one. Smug looking couple of twats.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 5, 2011)

Thanks for that response danny, I do understand where you're coming from politically (honest) but I'll have to get back to it when I'm not in a rush like now ...


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2011)

Good man.


----------



## killer b (Sep 5, 2011)

an impassioned defence of the guardian (while _recognising it's weaknesses_), followed by 'more later'?

it's like 2005 all over again.


----------



## killer b (Sep 7, 2011)

if the guardian are advertising a research position, but make no mention of remuneration, are we safe to assume there isn't any?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/07/england-riots-researchers-wanted


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 7, 2011)

killer b said:


> if the guardian are advertising a research position, but make no mention of remuneration, are we safe to assume there isn't any?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/07/england-riots-researchers-wanted



"We will offer training and pay researchers on a daily rate."


----------



## belboid (Sep 7, 2011)

damn, that makes me wish we'd had riots in Sheffield now.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 7, 2011)

> Experience of conducting interviews however is crucial - shorthand skills would be advantageous. It is expected candidates will have a background in journalism or academia, but prior work experience might also include youth, charity or community work.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 7, 2011)

Community based research. What community?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 7, 2011)

The bubble community I imagine


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> The bubble community I imagine



You mean Palmers Green?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 7, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> I don't care about Polly Toynbee, but Simon Hoggart's byline pic alone marks him out as a wanker. That Hugh Muir's another one. Smug looking couple of twats.



I quite like Simon Hoggart's column in the Saturday edition


----------



## killer b (Sep 7, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> "We will offer training and pay researchers on a daily rate."




Whoops.


----------



## articul8 (Sep 7, 2011)

I need a job


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 7, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> You mean Palmers Green?


I met a debutante at a do there; I had no luck with her.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 7, 2011)

killer b said:


> if the guardian are advertising a research position, but make no mention of remuneration, are we safe to assume there isn't any?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/07/england-riots-researchers-wanted



I'm not going to defend that total shit, whether 'passionately' or in any other way 

You know it's pretty much a lie to suggest/imply that that I issue unconditional defences of the Guardian don't you? Or even that I ever have done.

I'm just a little bit more objective about the fucking thing than some regulars on here. That means recognising that it's not _totally_ rubbish and does contain plenty of valuable/useful/worthwhile stuff _as well_ -- so long as you're selective/discerning in your approach. You're smart enough to know that for yourself.

It's a pointless game anyway -- picking out example after example of shite stuff in the Guardian to make it seem as if its shite and nothing but. It's not like it's difficult to cherrypick bad shit in it, I've never denied it and I've even found the odd example myself in the past  

But I could be equally pointless (and I have been a fair few times!) in *equally selectively* picking out plenty of examples of good stuff to counter it.

Gets us nowhere, me included


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 7, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:
			
		

> I don't care about Polly Toynbee, but Simon Hoggart's byline pic alone marks him out as a wanker. That Hugh Muir's another one. Smug looking couple of twats.





Spanky Longhorn said:


> I quite like Simon Hoggart's column in the Saturday edition



Did Frances mean Simon Jenkins I wonder -- much more of a wanker candidate surely ....?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 7, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Morning, Will.
> 
> All newspapers are establishment papers; the Guardian is no different, in that respect, to the others you mention. It is owned by the owning class. It is produced in the interests of its owners. Its job is to sell a readership to its advertisers. It does that by targeting an audience, and providing the type of content it deems that that audience will want.
> 
> ...



My politics overall are I think much more similar to yours than different, but I can't really agree with you overall.

Just speaking personally, *for practical day to day purposes*, the Guardian over the years has been much more useful to me in helping me stay broadly informed, helping me ask questions, find ideas of other things and places to find out more. My daytime access to the net is limited now I'm working again (where the net is banned for non work related stuff, too). Obviously the Guardian is very far from the only thing I read. But I've learned (from my historian training) how to read the Guardian selectively and discerningly and sceptically -- see my reply to killer b above.

Even though I really do understand what you say when describe the G as an owning or ruling class run paper, I'd be hard pushed to be as totally dismissive about it's entire content as you seem.

Thee's enough lefties, or totally independent minded types, who read it and write for it or to it**

**I very nearly met Keith Flett for the 1st time at our beer festival the other week, but annoyingly my beer fest colleague failed to introduce me 

Having said all that, I'm sure we could both come up with a long list of ways in which the Guardian advances an establishment favouring agenda on plenty of subjects. It's just that I really can't go along with the idea (from you and others) that this is ALL that it's about.

And in any case, my earlier point stands that for me, just on a pragmatic day to day level, reading the Guardian is a fairly effective antidote to the horrible quantity of out and out bigotted shite I hear all too often round me at work and elsewhere down here. I keep trying to remiond myself that this is only from a vocal minority of haters -- but they're haters of gypsies, claimants, foreigners ... that's scary and intmidating and after 27 years living in London, something I used to be much less often exposed to then. It really does make me feel like I'm in a minority of one sometimes (even though I'm not, really -- just _feels_ like it when near-racist and claimant hating crap goes uncontradicted or at least ignored so often). 

So for me, diving ito the Guardian at lunchtime or on the train/bus or in the pub is *some sort* of escape route at least. Of course there are better answers too ... but I don't have infinite time ....

Stressing here that I'm only posting personally. Just hoping tho' that you're understanding a bit more where I'm coming from.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 7, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Stressing here that I'm only posting personally.


Aren't we all?  (Bit puzzled about the possible implications there...).


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 8, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> That means recognising that it's not _totally_ rubbish and does contain plenty of valuable/useful/worthwhile stuff _as well_ -- so long as you're selective/discerning in your approach. You're smart enough to know that for yourself.


That's no more true of the Guardian than most other papers/media sources though.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 8, 2011)

Could someone on twitter ask @arusbridger why there has been seemingly a blackout on reporting the result of NHS vote last night? Absolutely nothing as far as I can see and despite how much was written about it the last few days leading upto the vote.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 8, 2011)

Probably because the relevant journo's work days, not nights?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 8, 2011)

Are you a Lib Dem, London_Calling?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 8, 2011)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> That means recognising that it's not _totally_ rubbish and does contain plenty of valuable/useful/worthwhile stuff _as well_ -- so long as you're selective/discerning in your approach. You're smart enough to know that for yourself.





redsquirrel said:


> That's no more true of the Guardian than most other papers/media sources though.



I'd stick my neckout and say it's got a better/more acceptable proportion of non-rubbish than most of the others. The Indie can be OK at times too, but it's thinner, with less content.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 8, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> I'd stick my neckout and say it's got a better/more acceptable proportion of non-rubbish than most of the others. The Indie can be OK at times too, but it's thinner, with less content.


The indie is total shite. Every time I've seen it it's been like an inverse daily mail.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 8, 2011)

William of Walwotrth said:
			
		

> Stressing here that I'm only posting personally.






danny la rouge said:


> Aren't we all? (Bit puzzled about the possible implications there...).



That looks like I was trying to cover my back workswise or something, but that wasn't really my intention tbh. I was just trying to explain why I had something of a different, perhaps more peculiar take on the whole thing -- practical circumstances. Don't really have room not to do much else other than make compromises about it.

To look on the Guardian as no different in essence than the Daily Mail (or whatever) might have merit as an argument of pure principle, and I do understand the point. But the 'all establishment media is as bad as the rest' take seems to me impossibly purist.

And I'm from the generation (and family) where reading an actual physical newspaper is a habit. It would feel weird after about 30 years to stop doing it. And the Guardian is the only one that doesn't make me actually nauseated to read -- well not all that often anyway -- the consumerist utter crap on Saturdays doesn't go far off mind ... 

Guess you can say I'm addicted -- festivaldeb certainly thinks I am!


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 8, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> The indie is total shite. Every time I've seen it it's been like an inverse daily mail.



 Haven't looked at it often tbh, not recently, so I'll have to take your word for it


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 8, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> And I'm from the generation (and family) where reading an actual physical newspaper is a habit.


I read physical newspapers, too.  I even read the Guardian.  However, it doesn't have a higher proportion of "non rubbish" than the Telegraph, say.  It's just that you prefer a broadsheet to a tabloid, and you prefer a liberal broadsheet to a conservative one.  But that doesn't make it more useful than the Telegraph.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 8, 2011)

Telegraph can be useful alright. (I like their sports section too   )

Just that the T contains more stuff that actively pisses me off than the Guardian does. So I suppose I might be agreeing with your overall point there ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Telegraph can be useful alright. (I like their sports section too   )
> 
> Just that the T contains more stuff that actively pisses me off than the Guardian does. So I suppose I might be agreeing with your overall point there ...


a good reason to read the telegraph i think. if you're not angry you're not paying attention.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 8, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Telegraph can be useful alright. (I like their sports section too   )
> 
> Just that the T contains more stuff that actively pisses me off than the Guardian does. So I suppose I might be agreeing with your overall point there ...


If the Guardian doesn't actively piss you off much, then you aren't reading it critically enough.  Have a go at the Telegraph for a couple of weeks, then go back to the Guardian with fresh eyes.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 8, 2011)

Actually that comes across as patronising.   But I'm serious about the swap.  Give it a go.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 8, 2011)

It's worth a thought-experiment, interesting suggestion. May even do it sometime ...

Have to dash, now. Will get back to the 'not critically enough' thing another time.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 8, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Probably because the relevant journo's work days, not nights?



Funny how they could update plenty of stories last night such as the Dorries vote, and other content has appeared at http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/health this morning. Is this the Lib Dem Guardian burying news?

(Actually, hardly anyone is reporting on it... a reform to further marketise the NHS just can't be big enough news )


----------



## killer b (Sep 8, 2011)

you've really got to dig for it haven't you? all the beeb has is this on the end of a story about cameron lying at PMQs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14829485


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 8, 2011)

The problem with the indie is that it's _boring_.  I buy it from time to time mainly because I don't want to buy the others but I always end up regretting it.  It's dull as dishwater.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 8, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> The problem with the indie is that it's _boring_. I buy it from time to time mainly because I don't want to buy the others but I always end up regretting it. It's dull as dishwater.


The Indy is crap.  I often buy the _i_, though, because it's 20p, and, well, _concise_.


----------



## killer b (Sep 8, 2011)

a friend recommended the indie for the writing of robert fisk. i tried it once, but his article appeared to be the stream of consciousness ramblings of a drunk, and the rest of the paper was dull opinion pieces, with fuck all news. i haven't bothered since.


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 8, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> The Indy is crap. I often buy the _i_, though, because it's 20p, and, well, _concise_.



I read someone's left over on the train the other day and I have to say it was a decent enough read.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 8, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I read someone's left over on the train the other day and I have to say it was a decent enough read.


Funnily enough, it's better than the Indy.  Or at least, it was to begin with.  Now a lot of the "lifestyle" stuff has begun to creep in, which bugs me.  Like the "10 best expensive lemon squeezers by Phillippe Starke" type features.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 8, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> The problem with the indie is that it's _boring_. I buy it from time to time mainly because I don't want to buy the others but I always end up regretting it. It's dull as dishwater.


There always seems to be some dimwit liberal woman explaining how Iain Duncan Smith cares about the poor and that working for your benefits will actually be good for people, and using the fact Susan Boyle was once unemployed as a reason for this. Woolly doesn't even begin to cover it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 8, 2011)

The Indie frequently has Deborah Orr in it, or at least used to when I read it last.

At least Johann Hari's gone I suppose - that has to improve it.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Indie frequently has Deborah Orr in it, or at least used to when I read it last.


Is this a good or bad thing?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Indie frequently has Deborah Orr in it, or at least used to when I read it last.
> 
> At least Johann Hari's gone I suppose - that has to improve it.


Not gone quite yet, inquiry is supposed to report this month. Bloke conducting it was overheard calling Hari 'a genius' at a function earlier this week...


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 8, 2011)

killer b said:


> you've really got to dig for it haven't you? all the beeb has is this on the end of a story about cameron lying at PMQs
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14829485



Yep. And other than this one CIF piece, I see nothing on the Guardian site about it post-vote.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 8, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Is this a good or bad thing?


It is definitely a bad thing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Not gone quite yet, inquiry is supposed to report this month. Bloke conducting it was overheard calling Hari 'a genius' at a function earlier this week...


They're not letting him write in the meantime though are they? I'd assumed not, anyway.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 8, 2011)

Nah, he wrote one column before he got drowned, but still officially one of theirs.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 8, 2011)

Hadley Freeman'd well get it though.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 8, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> Hadley Freeman'd well get it though.



But not from you.


----------



## elbows (Sep 8, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/08/nhs-health-bill-private-sector

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/sep/07/david-cameron-condemned-over-health-bill


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 8, 2011)

stephj said:


> But not from you.


 
Mibbe if it was her birthday.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 8, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> Mibbe if it was her birthday.



I suspect she'll be washing her hair.


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2011)

> Hi again,
> 
> Did you see my email I sent to you yesterday about the banner ad on the Guardian website? If you're still considering it, that's great… I don't want to put you off! However, I thought I might give you even more of an incentive and DOUBLE the amount of impressions that I was previously offering. So, for the same low rate (£425) you can now have 20,000 impressions instead of 10,000.
> 
> ...


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 28, 2011)

_'middle aged', wealthy, online-spenders!_

__


----------



## Bakunin (Sep 28, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> At least Johann Hari's gone I suppose - that has to improve it.



It's merely one less outlet for his (or, should I say, other people's dressed up as his) asinine witterings about whatever he happened to overhear in some pub somewhere or on some doorstep as he walked past.

If the mainstream media is toilet bowl then I fear that Johann Hari might be one of the unflushables that not infrequently lurk therein.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 7, 2011)

treelover said:


> This is the new Toryboy Guardian editorial writer, nuff said



Yep - just been appointed Cameron's speechwriter.  Cunt.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 7, 2011)

articul8 said:


> Yep - just been appointed Cameron's speechwriter. Cunt.



Has he? In the advent of prol revolution he would have been liquidated anyway, so I guess he thought "fuck it - why not?"


----------



## articul8 (Oct 7, 2011)

Yep
http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/36967/cams_new_sam_seaborne_julian_glover.html

interesting that he's "credited" with getting the Guardian's editorial line to back Lib Dems at the election.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 7, 2011)

yeah my mate at the Grun just texted me as he knows i hate the cunt.


----------



## killer b (Oct 7, 2011)

glover outed as a tory mole eh?

i'll be cancelling my subscription forthwith.


----------



## campanula (Oct 7, 2011)

not to mention the grisly puff piece on Louise Mensch (breathless fashion stylee tripe) and then, fuck me, there's Osborne's arse clenching face all over the Observer.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 7, 2011)




----------



## binka (Oct 8, 2011)

he likes american things now

the bloke doing that live blog has written 'the wire: re-up - the guardian guide to the greatest tv show ever made'


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Not a pathetic attempt to show advertisers they have a large US 'audience' to sell to them then?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

And for the record, i like the bloke - he's one of the best people on the cricket blog in the summer.


----------



## binka (Oct 8, 2011)

they do have a pretty big american audience dont they?

"American readers are by far the single biggest audience for Guardian.co.uk outside Britain – the latest audited figures shows 8.6m unique users (the best proxy for readers) coming to the site from the US per month. That makes Guardian.co.uk more widely read inside the US than many well-known American titles."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard-adams-blog/2011/apr/02/guardian-us-expansion-new-york


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

And they'll have fuck all coverage of Somerset's champion league semi-final against Mumabai tmw. Not a word.


----------



## binka (Oct 8, 2011)

probably because cricket is rubbish tbh


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Your boy above makes a living off writing about in the summer.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 8, 2011)

They are the worlds leading liberal voice

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sustainability/strategy-worlds-leading-liberal-voice


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Thank god for their strong tax-avoiding presence.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 8, 2011)

Don't be a hater


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Love me, i'm the worlds leading liberal voice:


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> And they'll have fuck all coverage of Somerset's champion league semi-final against Mumabai tmw. Not a word.



Nobody seems to be writing about that at all. Much as I disapprove of 2020 and the format of that tournament stinks, it is the only international club competition in cricket that there's ever been. Weird not to cover it.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Somerset hate. Let them hate.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

It's worse than that. It's not that long ago that all the broadsheets showed full scorecards for the county championship plus reports. I used to read them avidly as a kid - county championship in the summer and football in the winter. But it seems to have been utterly subsumed by everything else. Even _rugby_ gets more coverage.

That's the thing. If it were just 2020 snobbery, I could understand it.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

There's little need for the scorecards today mind - even my dad can follow it on the internet. The lack of reporters at county matches is a different thing though. The Telegraph is still the best for that, they still keep people there for the 4 days. The guardian doesn't.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

The end of season final at Lords is never sold out now either. It used to always sell out - and the b&H earlier in the season. The two are linked - kids especially will get into what they're exposed to. If they don't see it on tv or read about it in the papers, they're just not going to get into it.

And it's happened to me even. I would be able to name quite a few players in pretty much every county team, and all their overseas players. I can't now. If you're a kid, there's cricinfo - which is very good, mind - and not a lot else.

sorry, derailing this to rant drunkenly about cricket

Good luck to Somerset tomorrow. One win away from a guaranteed at least second place.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)




----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Do go onto the site and follow the bottom link for 'work for us' - it's a dead end fob off accurately enough.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

For all their fine talk, the Guardian has long been notorious for paying freelancers badly. They reckon - correctly - that people would often rather work for them, so they cut their rates accordingly.

What annoys me most about that kind of page is that it's all about what you need to do and what you need to show them. How about what they need - good writers? How about a tiny bit of humility and saying 'are you a good writer, if so, we need you?' Just a bit, just a little acknowledgement that they need journalists just as much as journalists need them.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Doesn't even go as far as telling you what/how to freelance. There's no jobs listed. They get sorted via another process quite obviously.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

I haven't read it in detail, but I'll bet they don't say the most important thing about freelancing, which is that you get jobs mostly through knowing people. You need to be able to do the job too, but that on its own isn't enough.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

The don't say *anything* that the point. It's a fake section made to look like they're open to people who want to work there.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

When I first thought I'd try to get work proofreading and editing, I was faced with this problem. Where do you start? So I did a course, a course that I later found out that many people view with little short of derision. But I didn't know that. It was a start at least, I thought. I got lucky with advertising on the internet, which was my way in eventually, getting jobs where I met people and could learn what was what. But there are no obvious ways in to a lot of things. And I get the distinct impression that this is exactly how those who have found a way in like it.


----------



## Picadilly Commando (Oct 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Do go onto the site and follow the bottom link for 'work for us' - it's a dead end fob off accurately enough.



I did a secondment on the Guardian's picture desk and was politely told that I'd be extremely fortunate to get a full time placement because I went to a red brick university. A "red brick university" - you couldn't get anymore Dickensian.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 8, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I haven't read it in detail, but I'll bet they don't say the most important thing about freelancing, which is that you get jobs mostly through knowing people. You need to be able to do the job too, but that on its own isn't enough.


I'v been paid as an 'unconnnected' freelancer by The Guardian and that wasn't my experience. As with every media organisation it helps enormously to have contacts but you still need to have something to say that is better said by you than by others.

Fwiw, my impression is the digital age hasn't so much opened up journalism as redefined it at The Guardian. Part of that redefinition is the creation of a pyramid of new freelancers who, for the most part, are occasional contributors, quite possibly but not necessarily aspirational and who specialise. They have a platform - a foot in the door - but it's that and only that, making a living at it inevitably depends on what they do with the opportunity. Assuming they even want to take it further.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 8, 2011)

Picadilly Commando said:


> I did a secondment on the Guardian's picture desk and was politely told that I'd be extremely fortunate to get a full time placement because I went to a red brick university. A "red brick university" - you couldn't get anymore Dickensian.


Bollocks.


----------



## killer b (Oct 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


>


nice one. cheers for the heads up.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Yellow sofa cunts


----------



## rekil (Oct 9, 2011)

Do our job for us and we'll pay you nothing. Is that it?


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 9, 2011)

> It's a bit of a leap in the dark, we know, so we've decided to structure it as a short trial starting this week and we are ready to pull the plug if we suspect we're giving away too much competitive advantage or falling on deaf ears. What we won't do is give up our right to exercise our own judgment about which stories are important, or pay much attention to pestering from PR people, but we do think it is worth listening to our readers.
> 
> It is not the first time this has been tried. A Swedish regional newspaper called Norran has already been successfully using a blog and Twitter to engage readers in a conversation about the editorial decision-making process. Eventually, I suspect, a generation gorged on reality television and social media might demand this from all sorts of media companies – from radio stations deciding which music goes on their playlist to public service broadcasters deciding what to spend money on.


.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 14, 2011)

> 4.10pm: The defence secretary, Liam Fox, has resigned.
> 
> *How the Guardian broke the story*
> 
> ...


Shit 'paper, etc.

/urban


----------



## Pinette (Oct 14, 2011)

As far as I'm concerned the Guardian is the only paper in this wretched wretched country that tries to act on behalf of all of us.  It is in the vanguard of uncovering sleaze and corruption.  I love everything about it.  





Picadilly Commando said:


> I did a secondment on the Guardian's picture desk and was politely told that I'd be extremely fortunate to get a full time placement because I went to a red brick university. A "red brick university" - you couldn't get anymore Dickensian.


 The person who injured the delicate sensibilities of Picadilly C might have been a bit of a cunt, but is not representative of most of the journos.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2011)

Pinette said:


> As far as I'm concerned the Guardian is the only paper in this wretched wretched country that tries to act on behalf of all of us. It is in the vanguard of uncovering sleaze and corruption. I love everything about it. The person who injured the delicate sensibilities of Picadilly C might have been a bit of a cunt, but is not representative of most of the journos.


Urging the coalition onto more austerity? Supporting the coalition? Urging a lib-dem vote? Presenting the interests of the class it represents as those of the mass of the people, coming up with various legitimating theories for bare-faced attacks on the poorest - this is acting on my behalf is it? Maybe yours, not mine or those of anyone i know.

And please don't bother pointing out that they do other things too, that's neither here nor there - all such institutions are shot through with internal contradictions and ongoing conflicts - that the lib-dem/coalition/austerity side won the battle in this particular one so convincingly since may 2011 should tell you all you need to know about the dominant theme/interest they talk for.

And of course, cato above equally ignores all these things in his pathetic - and by now laughably long-running - sulk.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 14, 2011)

The Guardian knows exactly who it represents, and it isnt the ordinary working joe.



> Guardian readers are affluent, young urban consumers with a keen sense of adventure when it comes to trying new products and experiences. They have varied interests and their high disposable incomes give them the means to keep up with their sports, hobbies and travel.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/advertising/advertising-guardian-readership-profile


----------



## rekil (Oct 14, 2011)

> Initially, the protestors's demands for free universal education was flatly rejected by the conservative administration of president Sebastian Pinera, but the government is now moving incrementally towards meeting their demands.


This is in the Chile thread but it might as well go in here as well. Whopping great lie from Jonathan Franklin. Awful grammar/typos and all.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

protestors's


----------



## rekil (Oct 14, 2011)

There demands was rejected innit.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 15, 2011)

First Coulson, now Fox, the Guardian is on a roll. Hope they can dish the dirt on Lansley next, the cunt.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 15, 2011)

The big coup - in conjunction with Tom Watson - is still the Sky bid for BSB, and the wider Pubic Inquiry, surely.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> the wider Pubic Inquiry, surely.


tell us more about this pubic inquiry.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 15, 2011)

Doesn't someone come around on Saturdays and take you to the park?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Doesn't someone come around on Saturdays and take you to the park?


no, tell us more about this pubic inquiry, not post up some daft guff


----------



## _angel_ (Oct 15, 2011)

Belushi said:


> The Guardian knows exactly who it represents, and it isnt the ordinary working joe.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/advertising/advertising-guardian-readership-profile


Well they're the only ones they're interested in appealing to. They still advertise all the social work type jobs and unless you're a boss, you probably aren't going to be all that affluent.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 15, 2011)

Pinette said:


> As far as I'm concerned the Guardian is the only paper in this wretched wretched country that tries to act on behalf of all of us.



Except that it doesn't. It very obviously acts "for" its' readership demographic.



> It is in the vanguard of uncovering sleaze and corruption.



No, some of the journalists it employs are. It's editors over the decades have also done their far share of sitting on stories of sleaze and corruption.



> I love everything about it.



An admission which reveals your previous statements to be the product of bias, wouldn't you say? 



> The person who injured the delicate sensibilities of Picadilly C might have been a bit of a cunt, but is not representative of most of the journos.



How many of them do you know personally?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 15, 2011)

Belushi said:


> The Guardian knows exactly who it represents, and it isnt the ordinary working joe.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/advertising/advertising-guardian-readership-profile



I see they've made another of their fabled spelling errors. "Effluent" starts with a "e", not an "a".


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 15, 2011)

Belushi said:


> The Guardian knows exactly who it represents, and it isnt the ordinary working joe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do totally see that point, but isn't that more about Guardian self-marketing, it's own pitch to advertisers etc.? Obviously all the upmarket concumerism, in Saturday's paper especially, is a major part of that.

But as angel suggests, and I agree,  the _actual_ readership is wider.


----------



## Mapped (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm liking the 'in photo's' bit on the (unofficial) Guardian Anywhere Android app. Chills and inspires on a boring tube journey


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> I do totally see that point, but isn't that more about Guardian self-marketing, it's own pitch to advertisers etc.? Obviously all the upmarket concumerism, in Saturday's paper especially, is a major part of that.
> 
> But as angel suggests, and I agree, the _actual_ readership is wider.



It's a newspaper, not a political manifesto. And it's struggling. Most of it is advertising these days, which is annoying, but it will be missed when it's gone. Like the BBC and the NHS.


----------



## shagnasty (Oct 16, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> It's a newspaper, not a political manifesto. And it's struggling. Most of it is advertising these days, which is annoying, but it will be missed when it's gone. Like the BBC and the NHS.


That is true of all the papers ,the abc's which is a guide to readership are going down each month and the internet model is not working it is only a matter of time before one of the papers fold


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 16, 2011)

2009/10:


> We anticipated a period of loss for GMG from the moment we began diversifying the portfolio through the partial sale of TMG in 2007. In essence, we exchanged short-term operating profit for longer-term capital value and financial security. We continue to believe that a portfolio of assets enhances the long-term financial security of the Group. Nonetheless, due to recessionary pressures, accounting conventions have required us to impair the carrying value of our investment in Emap and the radio division.
> 
> In 2009/10, GMG made *an operating loss of £53.9 million* before exceptional items (2009 £65.2 million). Turnover was £280.0 million (2009 £310.9 million).
> 
> ...


http://www.gmgannualreview2010.co.uk/statement.htm


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

shagnasty said:


> That is true of all the papers ,the abc's which is a guide to readership are going down each month and the internet model is not working it is only a matter of time before one of the papers fold


 
I agree with that but the Guardian won't be anywhere near the first I reckon.

And as for the figures LC quotes above, does anyone know where the GMG's ownership of that car sales network (once just a magazine, now online also) comes in? I was under the impression there was some element of cross-subsidy ...


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

..and tax avodiance


----------



## Mapped (Oct 16, 2011)

I've really stopped reading it a lot. I enjoy a look at the picture section on the internet on the way to work


----------



## Pinette (Oct 16, 2011)

It's only *my* opinion that the Guardian is the best newspaper currently being published in this country.  I honestly didn't expect anyone to agree. I respect everyone's views on Urban normally.  (The only exception being a lousy fat-arsed American twat in another thread about 3 years ago or more, whose views I wanted to ram down his rotten little throat, but that's another story.)


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

ta


----------



## JimW (Oct 16, 2011)

I've straight up read more articles in the Weekly Worker than the Guardian this month, which is not something I'd ever thought I'd be able to say.


----------



## paolo (Oct 16, 2011)

I was in Basildon yesterday. I went to buy a paper at a petrol station. There were plenty of copies of The Sun, The Telegraph, the Times etc.

"No Guardians left?"

The old Asian chap behind the counter gave me a sympathetic smile. "We only get one a day... I'm a Guardian reader myself" he said with a slight frown.

Basildon. For some urbanites, it would seemingly be a newspaper nirvana. Murdoch's stuff, the Telegraph, the Mail. And not a Guardian in sight.

Be careful what you wish for.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> I was in Basildon yesterday. I went to buy a paper at a petrol station. There were plenty of copies of The Sun, The Telegraph, the Times etc.
> 
> "No Guardians left?"
> 
> ...



Some earlier posts of mine are very much in this zone.

Try working (every single fucking day!  ) with people who regurgitate Sun headine/Mail headline cliches about benefit claimants ('scroungers'), Muslims ('terrorists'), gypsies ('thieves/criminals'), Poles (can't remember right now) etc etc etc around you most days, with little or no intervention of independent thought, and at THAT point you'll _might _come somewhere vaguely close to acknowledging that the Guardian really, really, really *isn't* the main _media_ enemy ... 

 x 10,000 <--- at Urban hatred of 'wiberals' while never giving a shit about *general* thick-as-pigshit, *REALLY* capitalist/mainstream media-brainwashed ignorance .....


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

The above post is very nearly _entirely_ non 'class'-specific, before anyone suggests otherwise .... 

Ever sat anywhere having to tolerate stupid wankers crapping bigotted shit about foreigners?

DEAL with the fact that for some of us subjected to that sorta shite much of the fucking time, the Guardian (for all its frequently-by-me acknowledged and outlined faults on this thread), is a huge relief and a welcome refuge


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

Not only that, I like literacy and long words  

Plus beer


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

i don't care about your shit job.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Some earlier posts of mine are very much in this zone.
> 
> Try working (every single fucking day!  ) with people who regurgitate Sun headine/Mail headline cliches about benefit claimants ('scroungers'), Muslims ('terrorists'), gypsies ('thieves/criminals'), Poles (can't remember right now) etc etc etc around you most days, with little or no intervention of independent thought, and at THAT point you'll _might _come somewhere vaguely close to acknowledging that the Guardian really, really, really *isn't* the main _media_ enemy ...
> 
> x 10,000 <--- at Urban hatred of 'wiberals' while never giving a shit about *general* thick-as-pigshit, *REALLY* capitalist/mainstream media-brainwashed ignorance .....



The guardian is really capitalist. They all are.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> i don't care about your shit job.



Perhaps you should very slightly care more about my shit co-workers?


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> The guardian is really capitalist. They all are.



Never denied it. Only partially relevant to my rant though .... and not much relevant to my points at all.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Perhaps you should very slightly care more about my shit co-workers?


For not being you? Grow up william.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

Not really relevant at all to my point.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

jasmine passion


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

OK, what I say at these beer soaked times is fairly obvious, no doubt annoying too, but it's just a frustrated outburst against the apparant habit of many on my *own* side of politics (at least on here, anyway) of promoting the Guardian to the very very top of the Hatred League.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Some earlier posts of mine are very much in this zone.
> 
> Try working (every single fucking day!  ) with people who regurgitate Sun headine/Mail headline cliches about benefit claimants ('scroungers'), Muslims ('terrorists'), gypsies ('thieves/criminals'), Poles (can't remember right now) etc etc etc around you most days, with little or no intervention of independent thought, and at THAT point you'll _might _come somewhere vaguely close to acknowledging that the Guardian really, really, really *isn't* the main _media_ enemy ...
> 
> x 10,000 <--- at Urban hatred of 'wiberals' while never giving a shit about *general* thick-as-pigshit, *REALLY* capitalist/mainstream media-brainwashed ignorance .....


as the supergrass song has it, the lowest of the low is the foe you do not know - and that's often enough the guardian.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 16, 2011)

Apparently there was an offer for a calligraphy course in the Observer today - £750, every Saturday over six weeks.

I quite like calligraphy.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Not really relevant at all to my point.


What point? That you now hate everyone therefore the Guardian is great? Grow up up william.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> OK, what I say at these beer soaked times is fairly obvious, no doubt annoying too, but it's just a frustrated outburst against the apparant habit of many on my *own* side of politics (at least on here, anyway) of promoting the Guardian to the very very top of the Hatred League.


who do you hate more, someone whose always been an out and out enemy, or someone you thought was a friend?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apparently there was an offer for a calligraphy course in the Observer today - £750, every Saturday over six weeks.
> 
> I quite like calligraphy.


i quite like £750


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What point? That you now hate everyone therefore the Guardian is great? Grow up up william.


 
I actually don't hate 'everyone' at all .... 
Was a fair bit more specific than that.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> I actually don't hate 'everyone' at all ....
> Was a fair bit more specific than that.


Yes, that's exactly why i discounted it.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> as the supergrass song has it, the lowest of the low is the foe you do not know - and that's often enough the guardian.



Tis a fair and interesting quote 




			
				pickmans said:
			
		

> who do you hate more, someone whose always been an out and out enemy, or someone you thought was a friend?



Far from anywhere near sure about that question to be honest, but it's prompted some reflection, so that's actually appreciated.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, that's exactly why i discounted it.



Have there been any times when you've been surrounded by anything similar to what I described?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Have there been any times when you've been surrounded by anything similar to what I described?


I've been surrounded by the dreads but none of this has a damn thing to do with the paper. Your reliance on it it is neither here nor there.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 16, 2011)

As it happens I don't rely. And as you probably know, I have somewhat more independence of mind than full on reliance.

But as I said up there, the G (day to day) provides a welcome refuge, along with all the drawbacks that escapey hidey holes can leave you with.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 17, 2011)

Lobbying is bad, but don't worry the Lib Dems will save us.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 17, 2011)

I think? you're quoting from that front page flannel from *today's* Guardian, including as you rightly say LD apologist spinnng from unidentifiable sources.

Bollocks that spinning rubbish was, quite right 

BUT in the same day's (paper) edition, ie from today (Monday 17th) there was a fair bit more useful and incisive information -- *so long* as you mined the right seams.

Selectively ....


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2011)

BBC workers balloting for strike action. Guardian reports this attack on conditions as Strictly Come Dancing final could be hit by BBC strikes


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Oct 26, 2011)

To be fair, the Guardian has been the only newspaper covering the legal aid reforms in any kind of meaningful way, an isse that will affect access to justice for thousands of people every year, yet more or less ignored or misreported by every other news source.


----------



## cemertyone (Oct 26, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> To be fair, the Guardian has been the only newspaper covering the legal aid reforms in any kind of meaningful way, an isse that will affect access to justice for thousands of people every year, yet more or less ignored or misreported by every other news source.



Ok that`s fair enough...but a so-called "left of centre" newspaper that gives over 5 pages to financial news
is beyond the pale...esp at the expense of international news reporting..
Add to the mix that when one of the guest editors asked the entire news room
which of them had not been educated privately the only person to respond
was the cleaner emptying there bins....enough said.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2011)




----------



## Meltingpot (Oct 26, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Some earlier posts of mine are very much in this zone.
> 
> Try working (every single fucking day!  ) with people who regurgitate Sun headine/Mail headline cliches about benefit claimants ('scroungers'), Muslims ('terrorists'), gypsies ('thieves/criminals'), Poles (can't remember right now) etc etc etc around you most days, with little or no intervention of independent thought, and at THAT point you'll _might _come somewhere vaguely close to acknowledging that the Guardian really, really, really *isn't* the main _media_ enemy ...
> 
> x 10,000 <--- at Urban hatred of 'wiberals' while never giving a shit about *general* thick-as-pigshit, *REALLY* capitalist/mainstream media-brainwashed ignorance .....



Have to say I agree with this, but maybe the amount of vitriol the Guardian attracts here is because it has a reputation as a left of centre paper, so people expect more from it than they do of the Sun, the Express and the Mail etc.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2011)

Or because it's shit pretending to be left wing.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Oct 26, 2011)

left wing right wing you can stuff the lot...

of course they fucking do


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 14, 2011)




----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 14, 2011)

cemertyone said:


> Ok that`s fair enough...but a so-called "left of centre" newspaper that gives over 5 pages to financial news
> is beyond the pale...esp at the expense of international news reporting..



I actually pick up a fair bit of useful info from the financial pages -- neither Larry Elliott nor Nils Pratley pretend to be in any way anti capitalist at all (and nor would I expect them to be) but in terms of learning stuff about technical economics and City deals/shenanigans respectively, those two have got something to offer IMO. I mean when you haven't got time to scan the FT as a fair few lefties have recommended (in terms of the best sources for knowing the enemy!)


> Add to the mix that when one of the guest editors asked the entire news room
> which of them had not been educated privately the only person to respond
> was the cleaner emptying there bins....enough said.



Could you source that one? I'm pretty ready to believe it tbh -- but at the same time the above has a bit of a 'second hand anecdote' look to it.


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 14, 2011)

Meltingpot said:


> [replying to a much earlier post from me]Have to say I agree with this, but maybe the amount of vitriol the Guardian attracts here is because it has a reputation as a left of centre paper, so people expect more from it than they do of the Sun, the Express and the Mail etc.



Fair comment. It's not even as if I fail to see the point of the anti-Guardian criticisms myself -- I share plenty of them in fact. It's no secret though that I see the _principal_ (note emphasis) enemies in the mainstream media as elsewhere than on the Graun.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 14, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> I'm pretty ready to believe it tbh .



I'm not. A small meeting room full of senior hacks, perhaps.


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 14, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I'm not. A small meeting room full of senior hacks, perhaps.



Could well have been that, if that tale had anything to it. I think my main point though was to ask cemertyone for the source.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 18, 2011)

Arselickry of a spineless rat
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/17/in-praise-of-shirley-williams-editorial

Pass the sick bucket


----------



## killer b (Nov 18, 2011)

a fine piece of hollywood tittle-tattle, hurriedly written this morning after the mail beat them to it...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/nov/18/natalie-wood-death-investigated-police?newsfeed=true


----------



## rekil (Nov 23, 2011)

How to have a modern Thanksgiving.


> Forget the turkey and the 'chocolate pilgrim centrepieces' this Thanksgiving. Here is my handy guide to surviving that special holiday.


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't see what was particularly wrong with that one. Nothing to do with us Brits!


----------



## cemertyone (Nov 24, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Could you source that one? I'm pretty ready to believe it tbh -- but at the same time the above has a bit of a 'second hand anecdote' look to it.



It was that asian chick from the apprienctice..she guest edited the G2 section when they had various people do so..
cant remember her name... but she recently did a documentary about adopting a kid from Pakistan and she does a junior type
apprienctice thing on the telly..
She actually mentions the total lack of any one from a comprhensive background in the article she wrote for the g2 section
when she editied it..


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 24, 2011)

This is pretty funny. The Graun thought they would do a map of political changes in Europe during recent decades.

Here it is.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/jul/28/europe-politics-interactive-map-left-right

Very pretty is it not? Might make a cool backdrop for Christmas parties or summat.

But what's this? UK had a left wing government for 13 years? Blimey, who knew?

And that is very far from the only mistake.

2nd item down on this link is where the graun owns up to a host of other mistakes as prompted by readers:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2011/aug/04/corrections-and-clarifications


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 25, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes...pitalism-culture-art-market#start-of-comments its andy warhols fault capitalism is fucked


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Nov 26, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/nov/25/david-cameron-answers-questions?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

ffs...


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 26, 2011)

Jon-of-arc said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/nov/25/david-cameron-answers-questions?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
> 
> ffs...



Some good questions. Cameron comes across as even smugger and more out of touch than usual.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Nov 26, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> Some good questions. Cameron comes across as even smugger and more out of touch than usual.



Good questions (some...), but without a challenge to the mealy mouthed answers the article just comes across as the gruan giving him a chance to pander to their unthinking liberal demographic...


----------



## London_Calling (Nov 26, 2011)

Can't do much right, can it.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2011)

Cough...hack


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 28, 2011)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Good questions (some...), but without a challenge to the mealy mouthed answers the article just comes across as the gruan giving him a chance to pander to their unthinking liberal demographic...



Do you honestly think that many Guardian readers are pro Cameron though? Undenying liberals do exist for sure. Actively Tory-sympathetic/pro-Cameron 'liberals' -- less likely to be Guardian readers in any great number, surely ...

I thought a lot of those questions were pretty feeble true, but his answers were even blander, and hardly likely to convince anyone other than the most 'apolitical' and non-left/non-'liberal' Guardian readers, or ones who are already more or less Tories.

In other words, probably a pretty small minority of them.

(Don't overstate my claims in this post please, people! Plenty of caveats... )


----------



## kenny g (Nov 28, 2011)

We desperately need a radical quality newspaper. Tories have the Telegraph. The Guardian is no longer the equivalent.

It is in the main a hack rag wrapped in advertorial.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Nov 28, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Do you honestly think that many Guardian readers are pro Cameron though? Undenying liberals do exist for sure. Actively Tory-sympathetic/pro-Cameron 'liberals' -- less likely to be Guardian readers in any great number, surely ...
> 
> I thought a lot of those questions were pretty feeble true, but his answers were even blander, and hardly likely to convince anyone other than the most 'apolitical' and non-left/non-'liberal' Guardian readers, or ones who are already more or less Tories.
> 
> ...



Well, Cameron clearly thought it served some sort of purpose to him, otherwise he wouldnt do it. To me that purpose seemed to be him saying "look, I'm not a monster, I'm just an ordinary guy with a sense of humour. I don't take myself too seriously, and, look, I'm even prepared to be grilled by all these radical and important people, like Polly Toynbee, and Tinnie Tempah. My wife still goes out clubbing when we're in Ibiza (and they don't call me disco dave for nothing, wink wink), and basically I'm the sort of guy you might have a drink with, if we met each other down the pub and didn't get too heavily into the politics..."

Now, how successful he was in portraying himself in this light might be open to debate, but clearly him and his communications team see that their are a few "untapped" conservative votes lying around in the guardian readership. Otherwise he wouldn't have bothered.

The guardian know how annoying it will be to most of their readers, and they know Camerons motives, but they also know it will shift a few papers. So they give him a platform.


----------



## militant atheist (Nov 29, 2011)

kenny g said:


> We desperately need a radical quality newspaper. Tories have the Telegraph. The Guardian is no longer the equivalent.



http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Do you honestly think that many Guardian readers are pro Cameron though?






			
				Guardian leader said:
			
		

> Mr Cameron offers a new and welcome Toryism, quite different from what Michael Howard offered five years ago


Guardian.

That was the same leader piece that said:


> if the Guardian had a vote in the 2010 general election it would be cast enthusiastically for the Liberal Democrats.


Knowing full well what Clegg had said he would do.


----------



## London_Calling (Nov 29, 2011)

You voted for Gordon Brown's version of New Labour?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 29, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Guardian.
> 
> That was the same leader piece that said:
> 
> Knowing full well what Clegg had said he would do.


Readers, not leaders...


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> You voted for Gordon Brown's version of New Labour?


Was that to me or someone else?


----------



## kenny g (Nov 29, 2011)

militant atheist said:


> http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php



I said quality radical. The morning star is neither.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2011)

Tory voters are estimated to make up about 10% of the Guardian's readership. (And of course that wouldn't include the sort of people who support tory style liberalism without ever voting tory - lib-dems for example make up 37% of the readership).


----------



## belboid (Nov 29, 2011)

kenny g said:


> I said quality radical. The morning star is neither.


The Grauniad was never really radical either, tho.  It's always been a wishy-washy left liberal paper, that is soft on tories when they're wet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2011)

Except, not so much of the "left".


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2011)

belboid said:


> The Grauniad was never really radical either, tho. It's always been a wishy-washy left liberal paper, that is soft on tories when they're wet.


It's soft on them now and they're bone dry.


----------



## mk12 (Nov 29, 2011)

Come on, let's not be too harsh. It's the best of a bad bunch. It has some good contributors, excellent features and it loves Mad Men and iPhones. So it's not all bad.


----------



## belboid (Nov 29, 2011)

I think I've already posted up earlier their editorial from the day after Cable Street - which essentially, ran 'A Victory for the Blackshirts (we should just ignore them and they'll go away).'

Nothings changed


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Nov 29, 2011)

belboid said:


> I think I've already posted up earlier their editorial from the day after Cable Street - which essentially, ran 'A Victory for the Blackshirts (we should just ignore them and they'll go away).'
> 
> Nothings changed



They also posted a glowing obituary on Oswald Moseley too, don't forget.


----------



## belboid (Nov 29, 2011)

oh yes, I only know the bit from the Not The Nine O'Clock News song

"Genuinely eager to champion the unemployed and other underdogs... dynamic and handsome, popular... gifted and a natural leader"


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 29, 2011)

belboid said:


> oh yes, I only know the bit from the Not The Nine O'Clock News song
> 
> "Genuinely eager to champion the unemployed and other underdogs... dynamic and handsome, popular... gifted and a natural leader"



He could have been a great dictator, given 'alf a chance, but they treated 'im like a traitor, so he went to live in Fraaaaaance.


----------



## krink (Nov 29, 2011)

it's going to be in my head for days now


----------



## belboid (Nov 29, 2011)

Ernald??!!


----------



## Random (Nov 29, 2011)

mk12 said:


> Come on, let's not be too harsh. It's the best of a bad bunch. It has some good contributors, excellent features and it loves Mad Men and iPhones. So it's not all bad.


Why not be too harsh?


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 29, 2011)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Now, how successful he was in portraying himself in this light might be open to debate, but clearly him and his communications team see that their are a few "untapped" conservative votes lying around in the guardian readership. Otherwise he wouldn't have bothered.
> 
> The guardian know how annoying it will be to most of their readers, and they know Camerons motives, but they also know it will shift a few papers. So they give him a platform.



Yeah, fair response, I don't really deny either of those points, but it's also possible --plausibly? -- that he/his 'team' overestimate the number of untapped Tory votes there are among Guardian readers? Just speculating really.

Maybe there's more apolitical/possible Tory types among their _online_ readership.

I just question -- no more than that -- how successful that particular plank of media strategy is likely to be, given everything else Cameron's doing.




			
				danny la rouge said:
			
		

> [quoting a Guardian leader from the General Election]if the Guardian had a vote in the 2010 general election it would be cast enthusiastically for the Liberal Democrats.



Not sure what point you're making given that I'd never even dream of denying how pro Lib Dem the Guardian has been, and still too much so now.

(Just about my least favourite of several unfavourite op-ed writers is John Kampfner, Lib Dem arse-licking twat)


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Not sure what point you're making given that I'd never even dream of denying how pro Lib Dem the Guardian has been, and still too much so now.


Ach, just the usual Lib Dems are nasty Tories rant.  Feel free to ignore.  It's been a bad day.


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 29, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> They also posted a glowing obituary on Oswald Moseley too, don't forget.



Guardian? How glowing, exactly? 

(I should remember more about this....I would definitely have read it at the time. But if it was *that* glowing it would probably have jumped out at me -- I was once a historian of that period, long ago I read a Mosley biog, etc. Surely also something as 'glowing' as you suggest would have pissed off far more of their readers than I remember being apparant at the time in letters pages etc.  )


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Nov 30, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Guardian? How glowing, exactly?
> 
> (I should remember more about this....I would definitely have read it at the time. But if it was *that* glowing it would probably have jumped out at me -- I was once a historian of that period, long ago I read a Mosley biog, etc. Surely also something as 'glowing' as you suggest would have pissed off far more of their readers than I remember being apparant at the time in letters pages etc.  )



Just got back from the cinema - I'll have a look tomorrow to see if there's an online version of this obituary from the Graun knocking about.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 4, 2011)

Fair 'nough, would be interested to see, but whenever!


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 5, 2011)

No luck so far, dammit, but will keep on looking


----------



## belboid (Dec 5, 2011)

A fine example of why sub-editors & proof-readers are realy incredibly uselful in yesterdays Obsever magazine.  An article about how 'Therapy Stole My Boyfriend' had the pecualir sentence "Though I am not blind to the Benger of needing to be needed."  Wtf is a 'Benger' I wondered, assuming ti  must be some slightly odd pyschology term about the risks of transference or some such.  Anfd then, a fe paragraphs later, up it pops again "all analysts are aware that there is a danger to partnerships"

And slowly I realise that the name the receiver of therapy has been given is 'Ben.'  And if his orginal name was Dan, and a hasty sub did a 'replace all' then those sentences make perfect sense.

Poor dan.  Tho I do like 'to Benger' as a neoligism for the above, all too easy, mistake


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2011)

can someone read this and tell me if it's as shit as the first few paragraphs suggest?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/06/why-is-britain-becoming-intolerant


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 9, 2011)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2011)

butchersapron said:


>


That's pretty direct and to the point.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 9, 2011)

Lovely puddings, madam.


----------



## Combustible (Dec 10, 2011)

> John Maynard Keynes, the nation is often reminded, suggested that in a recession it was better to pay a man to dig holes and fill them in than it was to leave him standing idle. But a weird thing happens, if you respond with: "Brilliant! Let's call that … Workfare!" All the "Keynesians" run screaming for the hills. Only the free-marketers are left standing there, saying: "Let's do this!" For obvious reasons.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/dec/09/two-sided-politics-fails


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2011)

One being that Keynes wasn'ton about schemes that undercut paid work and so decreased tax paid/income etc

The hideous pomposity of the well fed.


----------



## rekil (Dec 15, 2011)

Person of the year 2011 - who would you nominate?




			
				Will Woodward said:
			
		

> Adele.


----------



## Fruitloop (Dec 15, 2011)

It just totally pains me when I read the comments on Guardian articles what a seeming lot of utter smug fuckfaces there are. I would happy-slap them all.​


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

copliker said:


> Person of the year 2011 - who would you nominate?


 
Adele is better than Mark Rice-Oxley's thumbs up to a bloke who holds hands with racists and murderous Holocaust-denying neo-Nazis.


----------



## rekil (Dec 15, 2011)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Adele is better than Mark Rice-Oxley's thumbs up to a bloke who holds hands with racists and murderous Holocaust-denying neo-Nazis.


Well spotted. And maybe the Adele pick was a wee troll, but it probably wasn't.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

'despite his more dubious personal convictions.'

lol.

And those of the company he keeps.







Kick the non-whites out, or even better kill them.   And why won't those fucking Jews stop going on about gas chambers?


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 15, 2011)

Captain Hurrah said:


> 'despite his more dubious personal convictions.'
> 
> lol.
> 
> ...



ugh. and the guardian thought this guy was great??


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 15, 2011)

No. One particular writer thought that the man's achievements as a blogger were exceptionally notable. Remember, Guardian staff tend to believe that the world happens in order to sustain the practice of journalism.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> ugh. and the guardian thought this guy was great??



One of their journalists, and aside from his blogging, doing so out of naivety I guess more than anything, the 'dubious' part being his nationalistic views. The journalist probably doesn't know in detail that in opposition, even if not fully sharing their politics, he has still been happy to walk side by side with some representatives of nasty organisations. To take one example, the third one to his right in that pic is the leader of a neo-Nazi group with members currently doing time for murdering migrant workers.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 15, 2011)

Gotcha.

Fuck's sake. So not that they agree but they really should have done the investigative side of investigative journalism better. There was similar stuff with the Ukrainian elections a few years ago.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 15, 2011)

Yep, def Nick Davies. Or John Terry.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 15, 2011)

Not that anyone posting here with no other intention than to indulge in one minute hate cares.

But I'm enough of an old school fucker to realise that judging the Guardian JUST on the online content is a hugely incomplete exercise.

Point being -- I never even fackin _see_ a huge proportion of the really shit articles such as those highlighted above -- and they are shit, no argument --  but they aren't the whole paper.

Try harder.


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2011)

i don't think this thread is for you, william.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 15, 2011)

Who is this 'guy' that you're 'exercising' about above, please?

Know nothing about him. I read the Guardian (paper version) every day and I know nothing about this.

Help me out without ranting folks.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 15, 2011)

killer b said:


> i don't think this thread is for you, william.



Did I ever claim it was?


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 15, 2011)

killer b said:


> can someone read this and tell me if it's as shit as the first few paragraphs suggest?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/06/why-is-britain-becoming-intolerant



I read it. I don't agree with some of it, but he had a fair few valid points. Try it out in full, seriously.


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2011)

'vile'?

jesus christ.


----------



## rekil (Dec 15, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Who is this 'guy' that you're 'exercising' about above, please?
> 
> Know nothing about him. I read the Guardian (paper version) every day and I know nothing about this.
> 
> Help me out without ranting folks.





> Mark Rice-Oxley is a news editor at the Guardian specialising in foreign news. He was born in Hampshire in 1969, educated at Portsmouth Grammar School, Exeter University and Voronezh University in the USSR. He joined the Guardian after 10 years reporting and writing from Moscow, Paris and Eastern Europe.


That makes his choice look substantially shitter.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 15, 2011)

Can't disagree on those links, copliker, but to be fair to my less than sober self, I need to check it all out further, later .... 

TBH I'm not quite yet grasping the guy's significance in either Guardian or general terms ....


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 15, 2011)

KB : Could you edit that bit please?

I did in my post.


----------



## chazegee (Dec 15, 2011)

Quite enjoy a bit of Guardian now that the Times is tainted.
The readers comments though, more fascist than any other paper oddly.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 15, 2011)

chazegee said:


> The readers comments though, more fascist than any other paper oddly.


You can't have been reading the Telegraph blog section a lot.


----------



## chazegee (Dec 15, 2011)

Look forward to it.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 15, 2011)

chazegee said:


> The readers comments though, more fascist than any other paper oddly.



I've picked up on that too, online.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 16, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> So not that they agree but they really should have done the investigative side of investigative journalism better.



Exactly.  It's just filler bollocks anyway, but the least he could've done is a little googling or yandexing on the people he protests with, looking at his extra-blogicular activities instead of linking to another longer but equally vague piece by another Guardian journalist.  Mind you, if he'd done that, after some hand-wringing he probably wouldn't have nominated him.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 16, 2011)

anyone know abut this DSG lot ? 'Ikea Anarchists' is a profoundly lame concept, but some of their ideas seem sound ( + very basic ) .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/ikea-anarchists-derritorial-support-group?newsfeed=true


----------



## revol68 (Dec 16, 2011)

cantsin said:


> anyone know abut this DSG lot ? 'Ikea Anarchists' is a profoundly lame concept, but some of their ideas seem sound ( + very basic ) .
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/ikea-anarchists-derritorial-support-group?newsfeed=true



great bunch of lads, a breath of fresh air on the ultra left, plus they were the catalyst behind the hammering of Johan Hari


----------



## revol68 (Dec 16, 2011)

also their stuff isn't very basic, they've got a good handle on their marxist theory.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 16, 2011)

revol68 said:


> also their stuff isn't very basic, they've got a good handle on their marxist theory.



meant to say, 'appear' very basic in the Graun piece. Havent checked them out further yet.


----------



## rekil (Dec 17, 2011)

Camila Vallejo leading the guardian's own person of the year poll. 

74% atm. I expect they'll get Laurie to bang out some bluffy bollocks now.


----------



## sihhi (Dec 17, 2011)

copliker said:


> Camila Vallejo leading the guardian's own person of the year poll.
> 
> 74% atm. I expect they'll get Laurie to bang out some bluffy bollocks now.



The whole concept of the poll is just stupid.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 10, 2012)

They do this on purpose?


> When I started writing regular columns for the Guardian four decades ago – scribbling on my kitchen table – Walworth, just down the road, was white, glum, working class. The only black people you tended to see were young men in old cars having their boots stopped and searched by the white, Carter Street Old Bill. Brixton, just off to the left, was still Windrush world, the West Indies come to rest. And Peckham, a few yards to the right, was where Del Boy Trotter grew up and tried to prosper.
> 
> Walworth today is black, not white: a bustle and buzz of hairdressing salons and curried-goat houses open all hours. The Elephant they're digging up again has become little South America, stretching down the Old Kent Road in polyglot variety. Vauxhall welcomes Portuguese. Camberwell mixes Greeks, Turks, Chinese and more. Welcome to Norbury, and the subcontinent. And Peckham, the high street where geezers grizzle to camera, is one of London's great amazements: West Africa, its tropical fish, its rainbow of vegetable stalls and smiles, plonked down where only eels and pies flourished. And its array of brand new churches, mosques, temples: fervent belief marching on as the C of E makes an excuse and slinks away.


"White glum and working class"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 10, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> They do this on purpose?
> 
> "White glum and working class"



Was true in the early '60s, but once the estates had started to go up around Walworth, and the majority of w/c housing was there rather than "no blacks, no dogs, nor Irish"-type private rentals, that went out the window. When we used to visit my aunt just off East Street in the early '70s, there were already stalls and shops in the area selling "ethnic" foodstuffs. And glum? Not to my memory, but then I was only about 10 at the time, so perhaps I'm remembering it through kid-goggles.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 10, 2012)

It's more the fact that he's equating a race and a class with and I quote 'glumness'.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 10, 2012)

that's laughably bad.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 10, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> It's more the fact that he's equating a race and a class with and I quote 'glumness'.









Glum by name, if not by nature.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 10, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> They do this on purpose?
> 
> "White glum and working class"



Got a link for this?


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Jan 10, 2012)

Lazy prick!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/08/stephen-lawrence-melting-pot-south-london


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 10, 2012)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Got a link for this?


Oh yeah http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/08/stephen-lawrence-melting-pot-south-london


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Jan 10, 2012)

Lazy prick was aimed at smokeandsteam.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 10, 2012)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Lazy prick!
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/08/stephen-lawrence-melting-pot-south-london


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 10, 2012)

It's in the punctuation -

"Walworth, just down the road, was white, glum, working class."

The author is describing the place as they saw it. The only negative there is "glum", imho.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jan 10, 2012)

krtek a houby said:


> It's in the punctuation -
> 
> "Walworth, just down the road, was white, glum, working class."
> 
> The author is describing the place as they saw it. The only negative there is "glum", imho.



Non-glum residents of South London in action


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 10, 2012)

krtek a houby said:


> It's in the punctuation -
> 
> "Walworth, just down the road, was white, glum, working class."
> 
> The author is describing the place as they saw it. The only negative there is "glum", imho.



It's still an incredibly rude insult to William, though. Working-class indeed.


----------



## chazegee (Jan 10, 2012)

I do remember the last few corner shops ran by white people when I was growing up. They were pretty glum.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 12, 2012)

Rusbridger's henchmen, tired of waiting for the news desk to tweet "done because we are too menny" and then off themselves, have turned poor Zia Mahmood, the aged bridge columnist, out into the cold. No more games page, he says in his farewell piece, which also gives a very good reason for hanging onto AC till last when defending against 7S with AH, AC and AD.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

Interview with two actors in the culture section today. Both privately schooled and oxbridge.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Rusbridger's henchmen, tired of waiting for the news desk to tweet "done because we are too menny" and then off themselves, have turned poor Zia Mahmood, the aged bridge columnist, out into the cold. No more games page, he says in his farewell piece, which also gives a very good reason for hanging onto AC till last when defending against 7S with AH, AC and AD.



Do they have a chess column still? i know they used to.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

there was a bit of guardian bollocks the other day but i can't remmeber what it is now.


----------



## rekil (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> there was a bit of guardian bollocks the other day but i can't remmeber what it is now.


John Hooper comparing the technocrats to that coastguard who bollocked the shit captain out of it?



> Perhaps the reason why his harangue struck such a chord was that Italians are being called to order by their new government in similarly uncompromising, if politer, terms. The message from Mario Monti and his "technocratic" administration is that Italians can no longer evade their responsibilities by running a vast national overdraft and that the time has come for them all to start paying their taxes. Like De Falco, they are demanding that personal interest be sacrificed for the common good,


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Interview with two actors in the culture section today. Both privately schooled and oxbridge.



nothing new though surely? and for the last one it doesn't say she went to a private school, just a girls one (unless am missing something)


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

God no, but it does say something about the idea of 'culture'.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)




----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 22, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> It's more the fact that he's equating a race and a class with and I quote 'glumness'.



He's not, though.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


>



You'd never be able to tell he was an eton boy could you?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

fucking guardian


----------



## rekil (Jan 22, 2012)

(Suit and printed shirt by Burberry Prorsum.)


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 22, 2012)

From the way he's standing, I suspect he left the coat hanger in the suit.


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 22, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> From the way he's standing, I suspect he left the coat hanger in the suit.



Either that or he's pissing himself.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> From the way he's standing, I suspect he left the coat hanger in the suit.


or up his arse


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> or up his arse



Some things are best left as fantasies, I think.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> or up his arse



Oh, and I'll do the jokes, thanks.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 22, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> He's not, though.


How much more obvious do you want it?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Do they have a chess column still? i know they used to.



Not sure. I'd have thought, though, that chess and the poker column from Giles Coren's unlovely sister would both go the way of bridge coverage.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 22, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> How much more obvious do you want it?



I think we're dealing with your agenda here, not that particular journalist's.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 22, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I think we're dealing with your agenda here, not that particular journalist's.


It's there in black and white "working class, white and glum".


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 22, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> It's still an incredibly rude insult to William, though. Working-class indeed.



 
Never claimed otherwise!

Only by grandparents' generation-level origin, and they were all Northerners or Midlanders anyway (with a slight bit of Bristol and area added in) .

I do know the SE17 area *far* better than Peter Preston seems to, though.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> there was a bit of guardian bollocks  every day but i can't remmeber what it is now.



Too much to choose from! (Corrected for you   )

Plenty of stuff worth reading _as well_ though, to make the obvious but boring point ....


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

*Dai Greene: 'If I eat badly, I feel slo*w' 

 The 400m hurdles world champion Dai Greene on his diet secrets – including peanut butter and Nutella on toast


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm near convinced from ify memory that the above must be recycling bits of an old Dai Greene interview they had in Sport a while back.

A good article that original one as it goes (Dai's very well liked round here).

But semi-plagiarism saves money I spose ....


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 23, 2012)

On last week's redesign (paper version)  :

The biggest annoyance for me was that apart from on Saturday and Monday, sport is no longer a separate section. Pain in the arse for both of a couple that one can be!  

Chris Elliott (reader's editor) attempts a rationalisation ....


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

they don't have league 1 football any more either.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 23, 2012)

Fair point. Neither the Observer or Guardian ever did much of a job with sub-'big club' football anyway, not for years. The odd article by people like David Conn aside (he's consistently excellent), that's been one of my chief sport bugbears with those two papers for far too long.


----------



## mk12 (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks to the Guardian, I now know that Newt Gingrich grew up with a fascination of reptiles and that he had a T-Rex skull in his office.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 24, 2012)

That's nothing - he's got a Slade tattoo on his back.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 24, 2012)

badoom-tish! (I read it like that first time too - didn't have him down for a glam rocker)


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 24, 2012)

fuck off


----------



## articul8 (Jan 24, 2012)

my what an angry man you are...


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> my what an angry man you are...


issues


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> That's nothing - he's got a Slade tattoo on his back.



Straight outta the park!



articul8 said:


> my what an angry man you are...



All part of the Butchers magic.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 24, 2012)

he loves me really


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 25, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...n_ids=916518712604&fb_action_types=news.reads title says it all


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 25, 2012)

articul8 said:
			
		

> he loves me really



No I do not - fuck off you winking cunt


----------



## articul8 (Jan 25, 2012)




----------



## Fruitloop (Jan 26, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...n_ids=916518712604&fb_action_types=news.reads title says it all



 I couldn't read it. My eyes kept jumping about and my brain just wouldn't process such dreck.


----------



## bubmachine (Jan 28, 2012)

That Louise Mensch is getting some coverage .... I made a comment about this on The Guardian - I said that she is getting a lot of attention because she is an MP that lots of men would sleep with. The comment got removed.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 28, 2012)

bubmachine said:


> That Louise Mensch is getting some coverage .... I made a comment about this on The Guardian - I said that she is getting a lot of attention because she is an MP that lots of men would sleep with. The comment got removed.


Or/and because she has a very effective PR machine.


----------



## rekil (Feb 2, 2012)

How Mark Kennedy went rogue

Rogue is it.


----------



## treelover (Feb 2, 2012)

They are having an 'open weekend' in March, might try and get down there, though i imagine there will be seriously wealthy people coming, and fucking David Milliband...

oops its forty quid...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/help/insideguardian/2012/feb/02/guardian-open-weekend


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 2, 2012)

copliker said:


> How Mark Kennedy went rogue
> 
> Rogue is it.


 
That's not so bad an article is it?

There were better Graun  exposes/criticisms of him previously, and plenty in other outlets too, but I would have known _FUCK ALL AT ALL_ about Mark Kennedy had it not been for people who know here,  *and* but for the original Guardian stuff.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 2, 2012)

Reading Brian Reade's column in the Mirror today. He doesn't fuck about with his populist leftie stuff at times  

(Can't get a  link to his rant of today (Thurs) about greedy privatised industry bonus culture, bloody Mirror website is iffier than the G's!)


----------



## killer b (Feb 5, 2012)

even by the standards of this nothing page, there's very little content.


----------



## andy2002 (Feb 5, 2012)

The Guide's been shit for years – ever since they let a bunch of ex-NME wankers get their hands on it.


----------



## killer b (Feb 5, 2012)

yeah. but come on.


----------



## treelover (Feb 6, 2012)

andy2002 said:


> The Guide's been shit for years – ever since they let a bunch of ex-NME wankers get their hands on it.


 
Agreed, its like a teenage/student rag,

but the G has the issue of disabled people being physically and verbally attacked due to the media anti-welfare propaganda on its front page, so Kudos to them..


----------



## shagnasty (Feb 6, 2012)

treelover said:


> Agreed, its like a teenage/student rag,
> 
> but the G has the issue of disabled people being physically and verbally attacked due to the media anti-welfare propaganda on its front page, so Kudos to them..


A good article ,i haven't witnessed people being abused but sure it goes on


----------



## where to (Feb 6, 2012)

getting to daily mail level of misrepresentative headlines. e.g.:

*Minister for disabled people: there is no shortage of jobs*
*Maria Miller blames unemployment on people's unwillingness to apply for work*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/06/minister-disabled-no-shortage-jobs

actually she just says there is no shortage in the Wirral.

a good article would have gone on to check if there really was, but instead we just get a quote from brendan barber.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 6, 2012)

That was today's Guardian, that one. Not a great article at all sure, but exposing/quoting the shite Maria Miller came out with isn't the same as endorsing it ....

Worth looking at that at the same time as looking at that other article from today that treelover mentioned above (one which was front page in the printed edition).

The Guardian's FAR from the worst of the mainstream media for negativity on these subjects.


----------



## _angel_ (Feb 6, 2012)

Lol





where to said:


> getting to daily mail level of misrepresentative headlines. e.g.:
> 
> *Minister for disabled people: there is no shortage of jobs*
> *Maria Miller blames unemployment on people's unwillingness to apply for work*
> ...


----------



## where to (Feb 6, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> That was today's Guardian, that one. Not a great article at all sure, but exposing/quoting the shite Maria Miller came out with isn't the same as endorsing it ....
> 
> Worth looking at that at the same time as looking at that other article from today that treelover mentioned above (one which was front page in the printed edition).
> 
> The Guardian's FAR from the worst of the mainstream media for negativity on these subjects.


 
that's not what i'm saying. i am criticising the paper for misrepresenting the minister's words in their headline - if she had really said that, effectively, there are more jobs than unemployed it would be a resigning matter imo. i had to waste two mins of my life to check if that was the case because i know i can't trust the guardian's headlines to represent the facts of the associated story. i am then doubley annoyed, having wasted two mins of my life already, that the minister has said nothing of the sort.

i am then trebley annoyed that there is no evidence that the journalist has bothered to get stuck into the facts of the minister's anecdote to see if it stacks up. maybe the journalist did, but realised that admitting that would kill the story they'd just spend all of 20 mins working on.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 6, 2012)

and it's that sort of embarrassing error that leads people to think that the gov't, atossers etc are less bad than they are.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 7, 2012)

Fair do's where to, I get your point now I think.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 8, 2012)




----------



## Superdupastupor (Feb 9, 2012)

Editorial "in praise of Heart of Midlothian"

FUCK
OFF! :grr:


----------



## killer b (Mar 11, 2012)

wtf.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 26, 2012)

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/25/tory-nightmare-dont-say-werent-warned

We're living in some nightmarish Harry Potter spinoff featuring Slytherin overlords and magical Lib Dem owls. And some of us saw it coming – but it doesn't have to be this way​ 
what ... what


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 26, 2012)

You don't 'get' 289-8, you _reach_ 289-8.


----------



## Santino (Mar 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You don't 'get' 289-8, you _reach_ 289-8.


This is the last straw.


----------



## coley (Mar 26, 2012)

killer b said:


> wtf.




I was expecting a pit bull to make an appearance at some stage, then I checked the date


----------



## articul8 (Mar 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You don't 'get' 289-8, you _reach_ 289-8.


did you enjoy the open weekend?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 26, 2012)

articul8 said:


> did you enjoy the open weekend?


 
I bet you were there!


----------



## articul8 (Mar 26, 2012)

nope


----------



## articul8 (Apr 2, 2012)

O, as the kids say, MG:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/02/guy-debord-society-spectacle-protest

If this is what they do with Big Ideas, let's hope they stick to no idea in future


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 4, 2012)

Private Eye - which gets all its stuff about the Graun from some whiny Obs fuck who is maiden-auntly about sponsored conferences, and constantly kvetching about corporate comms ignoring his crappy Sunday rag, but who generally seems to be accurate - is claiming that they lost £150k selling 5,000 tickets to their offices at £60 a go. The mind really does boggle.


----------



## ska invita (Apr 4, 2012)

HOw is a (loss making ) £60 ticketed event 'open'? Its like calling a £250k dinner with cameron a public consultation.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 4, 2012)

How the fuck could they make a loss?

300k cash in, how the fuck much were they paying Tim Dowling and Lucy Mangan to come in their day off? Surely they only get time and a half?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2012)

the grauniad's taking its own sweet time to make it down the pan, it's a bit like one of those monster shits which takes a fucking age to flush away.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 4, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the grauniad's taking its own sweet time to make it down the pan, it's a bit like one of those monster shits which takes a fucking age to flush away.


 
Get the bogbrush and bleach out everyone and try a bit harder.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 4, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> How the fuck could they make a loss?
> 
> 300k cash in, how the fuck much were they paying Tim Dowling and Lucy Mangan to come in their day off? Surely they only get time and a half?


 
Presumably they paid Steve Coogan, Grayson Perry and David Miliband to attend. I bet they didn't come cheap.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2012)

Coogan 'lost' 30 grand on the murdoch stuff, Grayson has to pay for his life-coach wifes glasses/advice and miliband is a thief. I bet all share the same/similar tax arrangements.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 4, 2012)

Miliband may be a cunt, but he's also someone who needs and craves publicity I could get him to speak at an event for free - if the Graun can't then it just demonstrates their incompetence at running a business.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2012)

If they lost £30 on each attendee - what did the £60 to attend get?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2012)




----------



## London_Calling (Apr 5, 2012)

Letting itself be used by vested interests this morning to hammer Amazon; fair enough as Amazon clearly has tax aviodance policies but it's standard Internet company practice, asaik.

Campaign to change the fucking corporation tax law if you don't want non-UK Internet campanies selling/distributing into the UK and not paying corporation tax - they're all at it.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the grauniad's taking its own sweet time to make it down the pan, it's a bit like one of those monster shits which takes a fucking age to flush away.


 
Such enchanting imagery.


----------



## paolo (Apr 5, 2012)

So then, what newspaper is worth a read instead of the Graun?


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 5, 2012)

The Morning Star.

I personally feel that the Financial Times is the only half-intelligent newspaper left.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2012)

Can i go home now?


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 17, 2012)

that one where they added a sort of network of links to breivik's manifesto and then did not go into any detail of what was actually on the sites involved.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 17, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> The Morning Star.
> 
> *I personally feel that the Financial Times is the only half-intelligent newspaper left*.


 
IMO, it's all about reading the Guardian selectively/discerningly. There's a lot of shit to leave out, but that still leaves plenty of worthwhile stuff to include.

I'm the only half way objective poster on this thread I reckon sometimes  

(PS : The FT is fine IMO, I've often found v. worthwhile articles in it over the years, Economist too.)


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2012)

do i hear an echo in here?


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 17, 2012)

Is it tuneful?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 19, 2012)




----------



## mk12 (Apr 19, 2012)

What's wrong with that?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 19, 2012)

Think matty, think.


----------



## binka (Apr 19, 2012)

only a fanny calls it the camp nou


----------



## mk12 (Apr 19, 2012)

The last party is poorly worded?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 19, 2012)

Is there any way to win 27 games without not losing? After the recent someone 'got' something for something?


----------



## mk12 (Apr 19, 2012)

They obviously mean 27 wins and 3 draws in the last 30. Just poorly worded. You weren't having a dig at Chelsea, so I'll let you off.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 30, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/29/iain-duncan-smith-welfare

In praise of... Iain Duncan Smith?  The Graun's got political inner ear trouble, they're that off balance.

He's praised for not cutting even more, which is like praising someone who cuts off nearly all your appendages but leaves one left.


----------



## London_Calling (Apr 30, 2012)

Are people suggesting The Guardian speaks with ... _more than one voice_!!1!


----------



## Balbi (Apr 30, 2012)

More like they're speaking rubbish, about most things


----------



## ymu (Apr 30, 2012)

Anti-strike drivel, written by a former editor. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/16/parents-fined-children-absence-teachers
If parents are fined for children's absence, teachers must attend too


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Apr 30, 2012)

Balbi said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/29/iain-duncan-smith-welfare
> 
> In praise of... Iain Duncan Smith?  The Graun's got political inner ear trouble, they're that off balance.
> 
> He's praised for not cutting even more, which is like praising someone who cuts off nearly all your appendages but leaves one left.


 
Oh dear.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 30, 2012)

And that's an editorial - the official voice of the Guardian, not a comment piece by an occasional contributor.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 30, 2012)

Is Glover back or something?


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 30, 2012)

ymu said:


> Anti-strike drivel, written by a former editor.
> If parents are fined for children's absence, teachers must attend too


Jesus.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 30, 2012)

"IDS really cares about the poor" is a long-running trope - the BBC go with it a lot iirc - but it normally comes in the form "IDS cares about the poor but let's see about his actions" rather than "These actions by IDS show he cares about the poor". That's an escalation.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 30, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Are people suggesting The Guardian speaks with ... _more than one voice_!!1!


 

Edited -- just actually seen this IDS thing (I'd missed it in print before) 

Will get back later ....


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 30, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> "IDS really cares about the poor" is a long-running trope - the BBC go with it a lot iirc - but it normally comes in the form "IDS cares about the poor but let's see about his actions" rather than "These actions by IDS show he cares about the poor". That's an escalation.


 
The problem with that trope is that on the surface it's hard to deny, so if the media are as superficial as they're often capable of being, all we hear about is how his post-leadership travails and the Institute for Social Justice.
Of course "Institute for Social Justice" sounds great, really pro-poor and anti-poverty, but once you look at the politics of the ISJ, and some of their policy prescriptions, it becomes very clear that they're operating on the assumption that there are some "redeemable" povs, and a whole lot who should be left to fester. Unfortunately, the percentage of media about Duncan Smith that actually explores the ISJ, or Duncan Smith's neo-Victorian prejudices, is small.


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2012)

'work sets you free'

'idleness is a sin'


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> 'work sets you free'
> 
> 'idleness is a sin'


 
truly appalling stuff, poor show Guardian...

btw, its written in 'Pollyese' could she have written it?


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2012)

Maybe Michael White, he has supported much of the welfare reforms..


----------



## London_Calling (May 1, 2012)

> Polly Toynbee: Brutal and bungling, this Tory government is probably the worst of my life. Voting Labour in these elections is an urgent necessity


Drown the witch!


----------



## frogwoman (May 3, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/may/03/tony-blair-uk-politics?fb=native

 the fact they even have to ask ...


----------



## London_Calling (May 4, 2012)

Currently:
Yes: 34%
No : 66%


----------



## butchersapron (May 4, 2012)

i think Tom Clark may have written that IDS is a king amongst men opinion piece. Anyone got any info on this Glover ?


----------



## rekil (May 4, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> i think Tom Clark may have written that IDS is a king amongst men opinion piece. Anyone got any info on this Glover ?


See the full profile?



> Before joining the Guardian as a leader writer, Tom Clark spent four years as a government adviser, at the Department for Work and Pensions and the Department for Trade and Industry. Prior to that he worked as an economist at the Institute for Fiscal Studies, researching and writing on issues including poverty, pensions and public expenditure.


----------



## butchersapron (May 4, 2012)

Ah, an ex-govt advisor. I wonder which MPs creature he was?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 5, 2012)

Don't let the proles vote for anything


> Engineering this sort of an electoral double negative would be unattractive, even if it were feasible. But securing reform through straightforward success in referendums in which voters pass judgment on all sorts of issues not on the ballot appears a lost cause. Regarded as products of a failing system, politicians are deemed too tainted to fix it. That leaves representative democracy in a sclerotic bind. Any party serious about forging a new politics must now consider putting specific plans in its manifesto, securing a mandate for them in the traditional way – and then simply getting on with it.


----------



## bingiman (May 5, 2012)

The guardian is going down the pan for the same reason that publishing is going down the pan.  I can get it for free so why would I pay for it?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2012)

Another Clegg bum licking piece.

Only you can save us Nick.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 7, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Another Clegg bum licking piece.
> 
> Only you can save us Nick.


 
I'm surpised that one's not under Patrick Wintour's name, he's by far the worst Clegg-sycophant among the politics reporters.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 7, 2012)

treelover said:


> re that crap  but mercifully short DS column]truly appalling stuff, poor show Guardian...
> 
> btw, *its written in 'Pollyese' could she have written it?*


 
I'm pretty sure not, she's actually been pretty vocal against 'welfare reform' in some of her recent columns.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> i think Tom Clark may have written that IDS is a king amongst men opinion piece. Anyone got any info on this Glover ?


 
Sounds more likely yes, but until you posted that, I didn't know much about him. So thanks for the warning, one to watch out against ..


----------



## William of Walworth (May 7, 2012)

treelover said:


> Maybe Michael White, he has supported much of the welfare reforms..


 
Can I ask for an example of that? I'd not been aware that he'd written about that subject at all ...


----------



## Captain Hurrah (May 7, 2012)

Snigger.


----------



## rekil (May 11, 2012)

Uncritical regurgitation of Gove's unadulterated class hatred. Nice egalitarian tractor factory fan tories.

Michael Gove: public school domination 'morally indefensible'



> "Indeed, the Guardian has been edited by privately educated men for the last 60 years. But then, many of our most prominent contemporary radical and activist writers are also privately educated," he said. "George Monbiot of the Guardian was at Stowe, Seumas Milne of the Guardian was at Winchester and perhaps the most radical new voice of all – Laurie Penny of the Independent – was educated here at Brighton College."


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2012)

The most radical new voice of all?


----------



## JimW (May 11, 2012)

They don't get out much, these guardian types, do they?


----------



## chilango (May 11, 2012)

I can't believe there's 23 pages of whining about the Guardian.

It's been dominated by lifestylist middle class drivel for as long as I can remember.

The very first demo  I had to get a bus to, back in the 80s I think, was when I first looked at a copy, some middle aged CP lady had it. Shite then. Shite now.


----------



## JimW (May 11, 2012)

chilango said:


> I can't believe there's 23 pages of whining about the Guardian...


More fun than the cryptic crossword.


----------



## chilango (May 11, 2012)

JimW said:


> More fun than the cryptic crossword.


 
I wouldn't know cde.


----------



## rekil (May 11, 2012)

chilango said:


> I can't believe there's 23 pages of whining about the Guardian.
> 
> It's been dominated by lifestylist middle class drivel for as long as I can remember.
> 
> The very first demo I had to get a bus to, back in the 80s I think, was when I first looked at a copy, some middle aged CP lady had it. Shite then. Shite now.


A James Kelman charcter in his A Disaffection novel kept describing it as 'a load of right wing tollie.' That was late 80's, 1987 I think.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2012)

chilango said:
			
		

> I can't believe there's 23 pages of whining about the Guardian.
> 
> It's been dominated by lifestylist middle class drivel for as long as I can remember.
> 
> The very first demo  I had to get a bus to, back in the 80s I think, was when I first looked at a copy, some middle aged CP lady had it. Shite then. Shite now.


Thats almost a whole page a month!

Its not as if anyone is going omg they sold us out.


----------



## London_Calling (May 11, 2012)

It seems to taking quite a long time to disappear around the u-bend.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2012)

copliker said:


> A James Kelman charcter in his A Disaffection novel kept describing it as 'a load of right wing tollie.' That was late 80's, 1987 I think.


"Tollie".    Not heard that word for a while!


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 22, 2012)

Apropos of very little - I just saw Tim Dowling sauntering onto LSE with his banjo case


----------



## William of Walworth (May 22, 2012)

chilango said:


> I can't believe there's 23 pages of whining about the Guardian.


 
I can quite easily believe it, but from a bit of a different place than where you're coming from I think ... 



> It's been dominated by lifestylist middle class drivel for as long as I can remember.


 
True enough, especially on Saturdays, but that doesn't mean there isn't some good stuff in it _as well _

Chakraborrty's latest column was pretty good today I thought, for just one eg.

(Not very lifestylist that one   )


----------



## rekil (May 23, 2012)




----------



## killer b (May 23, 2012)

is that real? fucksake, they're beyond parody.


----------



## rekil (May 23, 2012)

killer b said:


> is that real? fucksake, they're beyond parody.


Yep, spotted just before going to bed last night. Cheese, trivialisation of a disaster and a classic grauniadism (or is it a pun) all in one go. To be picky, I would've preferred a 'hopes fade' rather than 'fears'.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (May 24, 2012)




----------



## el-ahrairah (May 24, 2012)

Won't anyone think of the cheese?


----------



## Idris2002 (May 24, 2012)

copliker said:


> View attachment 19509


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 24, 2012)

Blessed are the cheesemakers.


----------



## treelover (May 24, 2012)

usually i would agree with the comments and can see the guardianistas fear of not having their culinary delights, but the loss of such items would also have a major effect on a crucial industry for the area and will impact on hundreds of jobs, etc..


----------



## William of Walworth (May 24, 2012)

That parmesan article jumped out at me too, and not in a good way. But posters above seem to want to imagine that was the _only_ Guardian article about the earthquake.

Word 'wanting' chosen deliberately here  ....


----------



## William of Walworth (May 24, 2012)

The apparant ignoring here of that link I posted at the bottom of the previous page of this thread says a fair bit IMO.


----------



## yield (May 25, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Chakraborrty's latest column was pretty good today I thought, for just one eg.
> 
> (Not very lifestylist that one   )


He doesn't go far enough. Typical Oxford liberal.

The cuts are just starting. It's class war pure and simple.

Reflecting on the ADM nujadm.org.uk/2009


> I once heard journalism described as ‘a rich person’s hobby’. Indeed, a few days after getting back from the surprisingly delightful Southport, I attended the Guardian Student Media Conference, where the ‘Make It In Media’ panel consisted of the winner of last year’s Broadcast Journalist of the Year award and two Oxford graduates now working for the Guardian.
> 
> Perhaps not realising who the audience was, Aditya Chakrabortty explained how he got into the industry when the interview for his first job was chaired by another member of that ‘old boys club’. Despite knowing little in the role he was applying for, the only question in that interview that seemed to matter was ‘what college did you study at?’ He laughed it off whilst all the students listening audibly let out a resigned sigh of despair.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 25, 2012)

Well I'd agree with you yield, more would have been better, but he's can't just be written off as a liberal IMO. There's some pretty valuable analysis in there. Also he's one of their better writers I'd say, and there are one or two!


----------



## frogwoman (May 31, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/29/transgenderism-hate-speech?INTCMP=SRCH

wtf is the guardian doing printing this filth? this from somebody who has been invited to speak at a conference opposing sex-changes and who has said in the past it should be made illegal ... and others have actually published names and addresses of transgender activists online ...

odd that she is a feminist but supports a movement which bans people who have become women from even being there ...

the "practice of transgenderism" - wtf is there to criticise?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 1, 2012)

What you've got there is no more, or less, than a classic example -- and there are more than a few --  of the Guardian opening up the 'comment is free' area online to barmpots. Even including barmpots closer to* our* general area of politics sometimes! 

And as for those who regularly  _respond_ to the comment is free threads/articles, then stone me! Even the barmiest barmpot of an article writer can end up looking sane n'sensible (sometimes, relatively  ), besides that gang of loonytune reciters ....


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 1, 2012)

Which is why I tend to read the paper version on the train  or in the pub!


----------



## savoloysam (Jun 1, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/interactive/2012/may/31/best-no-1-singles-interactive?fb=native

Check out the 2010 decade for starters.

Jesus fucking christ, Cher LLoyd?

 x, 1,000,000,000


----------



## savoloysam (Jun 1, 2012)

Cliff Richard, Hanson, coldplay Are they taking the fucking piss or what!?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 1, 2012)

That's a highly selective 'list' savloysam. Real one does include Ghost Town, and many *genuine* other classics, as well


----------



## savoloysam (Jun 1, 2012)

Nobody wants diamonds covered in shit


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 1, 2012)

Fair point. Am in a pub so will be nice


----------



## savoloysam (Jun 1, 2012)

Have a pint for me and I'll have yours later


----------



## killer b (Jun 1, 2012)

Lucy mangan.


----------



## killer b (Jun 1, 2012)

I really fucking hate her and her hilarious relationship with 'tory boy'. Seems to be a pattern - that allegra cunt is married to some bellend at the spectator, cuntchops went off to write speeches for Cameron: no politics or principles with these lot. Writing for the guardian, the times or the mail  or whatever is all interchangeable. and so are the papers tbf. Fuck 'em.


----------



## Kippa (Jun 1, 2012)

There should be an Urban 75 newspaper.  I'd but it if they made one.


----------



## rekil (Jun 1, 2012)

Kippa said:


> There should be an Urban 75 newspaper. I'd but it if they made one.


Like this?


----------



## Kippa (Jun 1, 2012)

Like this forum.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 1, 2012)

Kippa said:


> There should be an Urban 75 newspaper. I'd but it if they made one.


 
Urban 75 Weekly News, June 1, 2012

*MAN RACIALLY INSULTED EARLIER THIS YEAR*
Outburst in football forum sparks frenzied debate - and at least 2 bans.
See inside for more on the scandal - plus an exclusive interview with London Calling.

Also in this week's issue: Politics, music, relationships, recipes, an updated Brixton guide - and guess who's on Page 3!


----------



## rekil (Jun 1, 2012)

Article by Charlie Skelton (  ) on Bilderberg with a conspiraloon video here. Tags include 'bilderberg wearechange luke rudkowski new world order illuminati alex jones infowars tyranny federal reserve elite conspiracy cover up propaganda Illuminati (Organization)'



> Another new media luminary working the gates at Bilderberg is Jason Bermas, of Loose Change.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The power jumps a few thousand watts when an SUV rolls up and out hops the Oprah Winfrey of alternative media: Alex Jones.


 
Eta: embedded video removed but still linked in the text. Luke Rudkowski is a mate of Icke's.


----------



## rekil (Jun 3, 2012)

> The Bilderberg bullhorns went head-to-head mid-afternoon, in the 'Best Rant' contest, for the chance to win a golden bullhorn. The rants were judged by We Are Change San Antonio and guerilla moviemaker Mark Dice. The winning rant was delivered by Steve Milroy, who said modestly, as he collected his prize: "They only voted for me because I was packing heat."


More loonery.


----------



## mk12 (Jun 6, 2012)

Quite a good article in it today actually: 
*Why working-class people vote conservative*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jun 6, 2012)

mk12 said:


> Quite a good article in it today actually:
> *Why working-class people vote conservative*
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative


 

Plenty of shit comments:



> Whether we like it or not, the blatantly obvious conclusion to be taken from this article is that what the working-class really wants is a version of national socialism.


 
lol.


----------



## mk12 (Jun 6, 2012)

Yeah the comments are terrible. A lot of "no, the writer is wrong. They vote conservative because they are duped by Rupert Murdoch" etc etc.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jun 6, 2012)

I've seen at least one genetic argument/explanation from a liberal.


----------



## mk12 (Jun 6, 2012)

> the blue-collar workers are easily swayed by what their favourite newspaper or tv show tells them to believe?!  Or too busy watching X factor/dancing/whatever reality show of their choice, they don't really care? So long as the price of beer doesn't go up?


 
 Stupid fucking proles.


----------



## articul8 (Jun 6, 2012)

mk12 said:


> Quite a good article in it today actually:



Other than the easy if accurate sideswipes at a very crude liberal response, what does it actually offer by way of a counter-explanation?  Relatively little as far as I can see...


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

I think the article is shit on what it talks about but is right on the social assumptions people from the better-off left need to make in order to square their circles. That doesn't require a counter-explanation. (In fact look at why _you_ even consider that it needs one, what this says about where you are starting from and why). Of course, you are a prime exponent of the dupes argument just with adopting the mindset of an elite middle-european culture that alwats had extreme distaste for the w/c and their choices - political, cultural or whatever.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 6, 2012)

mk12 said:


> Quite a good article in it today actually:
> *Why working-class people vote conservative*
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/05/why-working-class-people-vote-conservative


Well they don't round here.


----------



## articul8 (Jun 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Of course, you are a prime exponent of the dupes argument just with adopting the mindset of an elite middle-european culture that alwats had extreme distaste for the w/c and their choices - political, cultural or whatever.


 
You what? Ah, mean my interest in Adorno? Adorno is not the elitist snob of the cultural studies caricature - it's precisely because he holds out the hope of a fully free and democratic, egalitarian society that he holds the totality of cultural production as fucked up. It's not as though he wants to impose some middle class choices on the proles.

And what is wrong with asking the question "why do (some) working class people vote Conservative"?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

He holds out the opp we might all one day be as good and great as he/ye.

It's the opposite, he wants as little contact as possible with these types. Who are the only hope.


----------



## articul8 (Jun 6, 2012)

Not at all, he's not prescribing some particularly vision of the good life.  Any more than Debord is.  Actually their politics are really quite similar - except revolution was off the agenda in the climate Adorno's mature work was written in (he was talking to the SDS left and Angela Davis in the late 60s btw - he wasn't this old snob/defeatist.)


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 6, 2012)

killer b said:


> I really fucking hate her and her hilarious relationship with 'tory boy'. Seems to be a pattern - that allegra cunt is married to some bellend at the spectator, cuntchops went off to write speeches for Cameron: no politics or principles with these lot. Writing for the guardian, the times or the mail or whatever is all interchangeable. and so are the papers tbf. Fuck 'em.


 
Not trying to defend Lucy Mangan here or anything, but Allegra Stratton is actively much worse IMO because after she buggered off to the BBC (see other thead) she quickly revealed her true Tory colours ... Lucy Mangan isn't a Tory , on the rare occasions she's ever written anything political (rather than annoyingly lifestyley) she's been the opposite. As I say, not defending her, can completely see why she'll annoy people, but them's the facts.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

Oxbridge pair._ I'm the one who didn't go to private school._


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 6, 2012)

I do see that point yes.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Oxbridge pair._ I'm the one who didn't go to private school._


She's working class, because her dad supports Preston north end.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 6, 2012)

I quite like Lucy Mangan, she's alright imo mildly amusing.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

Is he fuck.


----------



## articul8 (Jun 7, 2012)

her dad sounds alright to be fair


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 7, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/06/nick-clegg-benefit-cuts-pensioners



> This article was amended on 7 June 2012. The original version wrongly stated that Clegg wanted winter payments and free TV licences cut for all but millionaire pensioners.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 7, 2012)

Not Clegg backs attack on Universal nature of benefit provision/ Clegg backs means testing etc but Nick Clegg backs benefit cuts for better-off pensioners


----------



## killer b (Jun 9, 2012)

'songwriting masterclass with Newton Faulkner'


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 16, 2012)




----------



## London_Calling (Jun 16, 2012)

Louise Mench?


----------



## kavenism (Jun 16, 2012)

> One of the most robust findings in social psychology is that people find ways to believe whatever they want to believe. And the left really want to believe the duping hypothesis. It absolves them from blame and protects them from the need to look in the mirror or figure out what they stand for in the 21st century.


 
This


----------



## kavenism (Jun 16, 2012)

Although saying that, his moral map is utter bullshit. In taking the objectivist stance that he does he completely ignores the question as how dichotomies such as authority/subversion, and sanctity/degradation became framed as moral issues in the first place. 



> Loyalty, respect for authority and some degree of sanctification create a more binding social order that places some limits on individualism and egoism.




Or merely limits the opportunity for egoism to a privileged few who make up the dominant group.




> As marriage rates plummet, and globalisation and rising diversity erodes the sense of common heritage within each nation, a lot of voters in many western nations find themselves hungering for conservative moral cuisine


 
Or in other words rather than making their decisions on moral grounds, they vote according to the politics of fear.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 17, 2012)

http://yfrog.com/z/5gpgk1j


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 20, 2012)

Look at their front page right now


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2012)

*Is the world getting better or worse?*





*Interactive:* Twenty years on from 1992 Rio Earth summit, review the evidence and decide for yourself
 
lol


----------



## articul8 (Jun 20, 2012)

That is a Day Today or Brasseye graphic surely?!


----------



## rekil (Jun 22, 2012)




----------



## butchersapron (Jun 22, 2012)

It actually says pointy shoes.


----------



## Corax (Jun 24, 2012)

I am confused by this Guardian commenter's choice of avatar...


----------



## machine cat (Jun 24, 2012)

Today the Guardian wrote repeatedly on their photos of flooding that the nearest town to Mytholmroyd was Huddersfield.


----------



## Corax (Jun 24, 2012)

That's absurd.  Everyone knows that Mytholmroyd is right next to Hobbiton.


----------



## elbows (Jun 25, 2012)

According to todays Guardian Leveson has lost the ability to use words properly.



> "I was concerned about the perception that inquiry was being undermined while it as taking place," Leveson said.


 


> "I was not be deterred from seeking to fulfil the terms of a reference that have been set for me," Leveson said.


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jun/25/leveson-defends-inquiry-agenda


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 1, 2012)

Missed this editorial on friday:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/29/tony-blair-political-comeback-unthinkable
Unthinkable? Tony Blair for PM again


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 1, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Missed this editorial on friday:
> Unthinkable? Tony Blair for PM again


 


But  at the fuckwit in the "comments" section who reckons "anything is better than what we've got now!". Get a clue, you deluded cunt! Same shit, different arseholes!


----------



## rekil (Jul 5, 2012)

The Guardian ‏@guardian said:
			
		

> David Mitchell's Soapbox: what's the point of wine tasting in restaurants? http://gu.com/p/38ny7/tw


What is the point of David Mitchell.

Next. Toast. Isn't it funny when...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 7, 2012)




----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 8, 2012)

copliker said:


> What is the point of David Mitchell.
> 
> Next. Toast. Isn't it funny when...


 
These new 5p pieces are really fiddly, aren't they?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 8, 2012)

machine cat said:


> Today the Guardian wrote repeatedly on their photos of flooding that the nearest town to Mytholmroyd was Huddersfield.


 



			
				Corax said:
			
		

> That's absurd. Everyone knows that Mytholmroyd is right next to Hobbiton.


 
How *dare* you mistake Hebden Bridge for 'Hobbiton'?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 8, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Missed this editorial on friday:
> 
> Unthinkable? Tony Blair for PM again


 
That was an editorial troll, that one.

Still a pile of shit though obvs.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 8, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Same shit, different arseholes!


 
Not *excessively* different ... 

Not that I've _examined_ said arseholes in any detail. Too busy drinking to avoid having to .....


----------



## Falcon (Jul 10, 2012)

Poor old Monbiot has confused "rising unaffordability" with "falling demand" in his mind and accidentally found himself in the peak oil deniers' camp (as an encore I'm expecting his startling revisionist history of the Irish Potato Famine as a falling demand for potatoes, thus demonstrating that potato blight was a non-issue). Following on from his intellectual implosion over nuclear power, and it more or less terminates any interest I had in the paper.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

Not the guardian but this. It's shit if it's real it's shit if it's not.


----------



## rekil (Jul 15, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> These new 5p pieces are really fiddly, aren't they?


"Getting people off the phone. It's a nightmare, isn't it?" 

No.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 15, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not the guardian but this. It's shit if it's real it's shit if it's not.


 
I was looking for Polly Filler's by- (Otto)line there


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 15, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not the guardian but this. It's shit if it's real it's shit if it's not.


"I've got a great idea for a column!" No. You do not.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not the guardian but this. It's shit if it's real it's shit if it's not.


Independent never disappoints!


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 16, 2012)

Yeah, but in 2010 the Guardian had Hero and Tybalt.


----------



## articul8 (Jul 16, 2012)

Do middle class parents _really_ hate their own kids so much?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2012)

articul8 said:


> Do middle class parents _really_ hate their own kids so much?


that's not the question: after all, of millions of middle-class people, very few have the desire let alone the opportunity to go on reality tv. the real question is, of course, why does the guardian think that sort of shit worth printing?


----------



## killer b (Jul 16, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jul/15/sex-five-times-a-week


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

This is genuine, i swear:


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 16, 2012)

Aww.  My heart bleeds.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> that's not the question: after all, of millions of middle-class people, very few have the desire let alone the opportunity to go on reality tv. the real question is, of course, why does the guardian think that sort of shit worth printing?


 
I may be wrong but I think articul8 may have been referring to their names.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is genuine, i swear:


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is genuine, i swear:


It's like they only cater for about 2% of their readership as well. (Ie the horrendously posh).


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 16, 2012)

Cry me a fucking river.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

The answer to the question must surely present itself each time they open the kitchen drawer or walk past the river or a busy road.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2012)

copliker said:
			
		

> "Getting people off the phone. It's a nightmare, isn't it?"
> 
> No.



Thank you. 
I have never seen them before and they are rather amusing. 
So hate me


----------



## youngian (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not the guardian but this. It's shit if it's real it's shit if it's not.


 
So mind numbing the words just dropped off the page.
Even featured the world's most mysterious actor Sienna Miller, who has managed to hit the papers every other day for past decade despite no-one ever seeing or remembering a performance.

Most of these 'commentators' have a short shelf life as they get stale. A way round is to employ people who go out and find fresh news and features. They could even call them reporters.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is genuine, i swear:


Christ, surely someone on the staff have the self-awareness to see that shit for what it is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Christ, surely someone on the staff have the self-awareness to see that shit for what it is.


yeh, the cleaners


----------



## rekil (Jul 17, 2012)

How Emma Sky went from anti-war academic to governor of Kirkuk

A load of shady wank, especially when she arrives in Iraq, and 'tracks down' John Sawers, who is now head of MI6.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 17, 2012)

Not generally got any time for Charlotte Raven, but this by her the Saturday just gone, about too much arselicking of the forces, wasn't half bad IMO.

'Our curious love affair with the military'

(Apart from that infuriating general-mainstream-media use of the coercive word 'our' in the headline obvs.  )

See? I can cherrypick too?


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2012)

maybe you should start a thread called _why the guardian is still great (while at the same time still expressing some reservations)_ william?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2012)

killer b said:


> maybe you should start a thread called _why the guardian is still great (while at the same time still expressing some reservations)_ william?


surely a thread for articul8?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 17, 2012)

Maybe you could get stuffed? Over a nice beer obviously 

If the Guardian _really was_ like it's distorted as in his thread, then it really would be going down the pan and totally shit, rather than halfway readable and often not shit, as in boring reality


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 17, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> surely a thread for articul8?


 
My politics are nowhere near his btw


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Maybe you could get stuffed? Over a nice beer obviously
> 
> If the Guardian _really was_ like it's distorted as in his thread, it really would be going down the pan and totally shit, rathet than halfway readable and often not shit, as in boring reality


but it is going down the pan, as can be seen from its pisspoor circulation figures. i don't know why you defend it so, when it wouldn't show any compunction about shitting all over you if sales demanded it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> My politics are nowhere near his btw


i'm not surprised. you have never plumbed the depths of degradation to which articul8 aspires.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 17, 2012)

I wasn't arguing about circulation -- that's a different matter, of course it's declining and the reasons are obvious (online related as much as anything else, but loads of factors there).

I only occaionally defend the boring fact that it does often contain good/worthwhile/readable/entertaining/illuminating/useful articles.

I don't defend the out and out crap, and I've never denied that there's plenty of that *too*.

The way some post on this thread though, the Guardian is 100% crap and rubbish, and that's all it contains.

I've never come anywhere close to asserting the oppositie myself, so who's being the more honest and objective here?

Just to remind people : at work, I'm surrounded on a daily basis by plenty for whom the DM and _out-and-out_ much further right wing papers/their headlines form the basis of their day to day politics and assumptions.

Compared to being subjected to that most days, the failings of the Guardian are highly dealable with. Indeed an antidote! (of sorts).


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 17, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not surprised. you have never plumbed the depths of degradation to which articul8 aspires.


 
Faint praise is good enough for me !


----------



## rekil (Jul 17, 2012)

Anyway...Monbiot.


> I set off in lashing rain to catch a train home from Egham, on the other side of the hill. As I walked into the town, I found the pavements packed with people. The rain bounced off their umbrellas, forming a silver mist. The front passed and the sun came out, and a few minutes later everyone began to cheer and wave their flags as the Olympic torch was carried down the road. The sense of common purpose was tangible, the readiness for sacrifice (in the form of a thorough soaking) just as evident. Half of what we need is here already. Now how do we recruit it to the fight for democracy?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2012)

copliker said:


> Anyway...Monbiot.


not monbiot, MONOBOT


----------



## treelover (Jul 17, 2012)

youngian said:


> So mind numbing the words just dropped off the page.
> Even featured the world's most mysterious actor Sienna Miller, who has managed to hit the papers every other day for past decade despite no-one ever seeing or remembering a performance.
> 
> Most of these 'commentators' have a short shelf life as they get stale. A way round is to employ people who go out and find fresh news and features. They could even call them reporters.


 
She was quite good in 'factory girl' about Edie Sedgewick..


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


>


 
Bradley who?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2012)

Think you've sort of missed what i was on about there.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Jul 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not the guardian but this. It's shit if it's real it's shit if it's not.



Absolute nonsense. In no world is 'Tilly' a shortened version of 'Ottoline'. I can see why it angered you.


----------



## killer b (Jul 24, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jul/23/why-send-child-to-private-school

i didn't find it necessary to read beyond the photo caption.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

good
fucking
lord


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

_Why my principles melted away when actually put to the test. _

I think we all know why.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

> The truth is that every person who moves house to get into a catchment area is playing the system


 
wow, thats a very special justification there.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 24, 2012)

8am-6pm,  from 3 , I feel sorry for those kids mind you it's the same for those at nurseries and childminders.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> wow, thats a very special justification there.


It's astonishing - it actually says_ yes, i would jump off a cliff if everyone else was doing it._


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 24, 2012)

What's the point of calling your daughter Ottoline if you don't say it right. Otto-leeeeen. Ffs.


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 24, 2012)

killer b said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jul/23/why-send-child-to-private-school
> 
> i didn't find it necessary to read beyond the photo caption.


 
Kind of amazing in its own way, I find myself disagreeing with both the point she's arguing and the one she's arguing against. It's like being pinned up against the wall by some dead-eyed bore at a drinks party in hell. I wanted to shout 'Oh Look, it's Jeffrey Archer!' and then when she turned around kick her really hard in the knee.

If I ever get like that please kill me.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

> As well as running my own training courses for PR and marketing professionals in education, I am an accomplished public speaker, conference chair and radio pundit. I am also an experienced copywriter, and founder of JournoBiz, a website for journalists/media professionals. I am also a school governor.


 
£150 a day per head for her shit training courses.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 24, 2012)

> As well as running my own training courses for PR and marketing professionals in education, I am an accomplished public speaker, conference chair and radio pundit. I am also an experienced copywriter, and founder of JournoBiz, a website for journalists/media professionals. I am also a school governor.


 
She just used "I am also" twice in a row there. Not that great copywriting IMO.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

it's a diane abbot level of self delusion and tells you all you need to know about who the guardian wants as readers


----------



## belboid (Jul 24, 2012)

"At least I am not limiting anyone else's choice."

Really?  _Really?_  She knows so little about how private education works.  What's her job again?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

Perfect Guardian face:


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

Unsurprisingly, she's a keen advocate of _vocational education_ for everyone else.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

One of those eh?


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 24, 2012)

It's great, as long as _their_ kids aren't doing it.


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 24, 2012)

"We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forgo the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

I reckon she'd agree with that.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

Fruitloop said:


> "We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forgo the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."
> 
> I reckon she'd agree with that.


Probably not the only thing of his she'd agree with - i often suspect there's an element of liberal racism expressed in terms of heavy-hearted choice behind these decisions.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

> When I walk Katy to school in her straw boater and blazer, I sometimes sense people – particularly other parents – judging me. But I wonder how many of them have engineered the system to get their child into the school they want.


 
I love this bit


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

straw boater.


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 24, 2012)

Little Fauntlarina is still gonna come home with some dude that looks like Flowdan, or the one from N-Dubz that doesn't look like he was made by Jim Henson. Hopefully by that point she won't be writing for the Guardian so there'll be no danger of us having to read about it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

I assuage my guilt by imagining that everyone else is just as grasping as me but in a slightly different way. 

never mind the millions who don't get to move house into desirable catchment areas cos they can't.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

also crap writing- you don't 'engineer' a system if you are playing it. To engineer it you'd have to be one of the systems planners. What fucking planet


----------



## Jimathon (Jul 24, 2012)

> it's a diane abbot level of self delusion and tells you all you need to know about who the guardian wants as readers


 
Reads like troll bait to me. Third comment on the thread about nails it:

"I used to have principles until I decided with my massive income it was a luxury I could no longer afford."


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

Fruitloop said:


> Little Fauntlarina is still gonna come home with some dude that looks like Flowdan, or the one from N-Dubz that doesn't look like he was made by Jim Henson. Hopefully by that point she won't be writing for the Guardian so there'll be no danger of us having to read about it.


Her kid probably will be though.


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 24, 2012)

Writing about how terribly conflicted she is about sticking her dribbling mother in a home. On Rockall.


----------



## rekil (Jul 24, 2012)

> There is no doubt that my daughter's school could do with some updating. In fact, its facilities are a poor match for local state schools,





> *I plan to send Katy to a state secondary* if I can, but if I find myself dissatisfied with what is on offer, I will go private again.


Katy, your mam is a great big fucking liar.


----------



## killer b (Jul 24, 2012)

ooh, coming in thick & fast today. here, sunny hundal explains why he's a sell-out cunt.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/24/ethical-pay-bloggers-tweet?CMP=twt_gu


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

Christ, there's nothing these people won't do for a few quid.

I hate that sort of thing - some of the somerset players do this with ***** cider after games and it really makes them look like twats. I want to know about the game and they're posing in the dressing room with a can of this crap.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2012)

Never know, this might encourage Polly Toynbee to post a defence of why she sends her kids to Westminster school.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

> I'm sure my Twitter followers are intelligent enough to judge the content on its own merit.


 
indeed they are


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 24, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> it's a diane abbot level of self delusion and tells you all you need to know about who the guardian wants as readers


They're trolling their readers. They still advertise state school sector jobs there.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 24, 2012)

Where do they dig up these smug twats?

Oh yeah, they're related to them.


----------



## Jimathon (Jul 24, 2012)

> Where do they dig up these smug twats?
> 
> Oh yeah, they're related to them.


 
Sunny Hundal & this 'I love mad right wing historians' private school lady are contributors rather than grauniad staff. They pitch ideas; sometimes they're commissioned.

I'm still seething about the education piece. Dorian Lynskey (who also writes for the Guardian) has written a good response post. I like this bit:



> Murray’s article is a classic mugged-by-reality conversion tale, like the recurring Daily Mail story where a repentant vegetarian poses happily with a bacon sandwich and makes jokes about lentils. In this narrative a liberal belief is a naive fairy tale that collapses on impact with the brutal truth. Or at least this one starts out that way. By the sixth paragraph she’s admitting “deep down I don’t think I ever really had a problem with private education”. By the tenth she’s approvingly quoting free-market hardliner Niall Ferguson. She isn’t abandoning a principle because she never held it in the first place. If her opinions were so flimsy and easily led back then, I’m not sure why we should listen to her new ones now.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 24, 2012)

Jimathon said:


> Sunny Hundal & this 'I love mad right wing historians' private school lady are contributors rather than grauniad staff. They pitch ideas; sometimes they're commissioned.
> 
> I'm still seething about the education piece. Dorian Lynskey (who also writes for the Guardian) has written a good response post. I like this bit:


Good piece that


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 24, 2012)

Jimathon said:


> I'm still seething about the education piece. Dorian Lynskey (who also writes for the Guardian) has written a good response post. I like this bit:


 
I think this is the crux of the matter.



> She isn’t abandoning a principle because she never held it in the first place. If her opinions were so flimsy and easily led back then, I’m not sure why we should listen to her new ones now.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 24, 2012)

killer b said:


> ooh, coming in thick & fast today. here, sunny hundal explains why he's a sell-out cunt.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/24/ethical-pay-bloggers-tweet?CMP=twt_gu


 
When he speaks, he sounds like a posh Sylvester the Cat.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 24, 2012)

I missed that private education pile of shit, not sure whether it just appeared online or was it in print too?

Boringly (for most of this thread's denizens anyway  ) it seems to have attracted a fair number of comments underneath, condemning it roundly -- on a quick scan, those seem? to be outnumbering the endorsers or handwringers.




butchersapron said:


> Never know, this might encourage Polly Toynbee to post a defence of why she sends her kids to Westminster school.


 
'Sent' surely? She must be over 60 by now ...

(Not disagreeing with you there btw)


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 24, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> it's a diane abbot level of self delusion and *tells you all you need to know about who the guardian wants as readers*


 
I'd argue against what I've bolded there, if I could be arsed.

I'll just content myself with saying it's still got plenty who diasgree. So partial-marketing fail ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

Its a fucking fabians paper will, I don't know if it used to be good once upon when but its utter shit now mate. Just sack it off.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 25, 2012)

When you have somewhat limited time, articles like this :

We talk of the 99%, pitted against a tiny elite. But this langauge glosses over broader divisions, ignoring those at the bottom

Why morality is fashionable again

are both in their pretty different ways worth a read.

yes course there's plenty of far better, lefter, more radical, more analytical, more detailed, more hardhitting stuff on the web and in books, but I post those to show you why I do still read it, and why the thing, for me, still isn't _completely_ shit.

Part of this is decades long habit I suppose, but I also have good reasons of my own for speaking in Graun-defence.

I also posted in answer to your post on the other thread (the 'which paper will go bust first' one).

I still hate out and out far right bigots *way* more than I'll ever feel able to hate a Guardian reader or even writer (all this is _relative  _).

Mailscum thought is what I have to put up with most day to most day round here, which is why I find anti-Guardian-abuse a dilletante luxury distraction for lazy kneejerkers.

By _comparison _


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 25, 2012)

Four-word version of previous post :

Know your _principal_ enemy!


----------



## killer b (Jul 25, 2012)

it's ok, we've got enough hate for all of them.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2012)

killer b said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jul/23/why-send-child-to-private-school
> 
> i didn't find it necessary to read beyond the photo caption.


 
You should have done. The mental and ethical gymnastics she goes through to justify her choice are hilarious, and she comes across as entirely self-serving: This "choice" boils down to the private school providing education plus child-minding. This is about Ms. Murray being able to continue with her career, and being able to justify it to herself by believing that her kid is getting a "better" education.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2012)

Fruitloop said:


> Kind of amazing in its own way, I find myself disagreeing with both the point she's arguing and the one she's arguing against. It's like being pinned up against the wall by some dead-eyed bore at a drinks party in hell. I wanted to shout 'Oh Look, it's Jeffrey Archer!' and then when she turned around kick her really hard in the knee.
> 
> If I ever get like that please kill me.


 
Happily.

I won't even charge your estate.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> also crap writing- you don't 'engineer' a system if you are playing it. To engineer it you'd have to be one of the systems planners. What fucking planet


 
True, you *game* the system or *play* it.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 26, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> This "choice" boils down to the private school providing education plus child-minding.



It's also bullshit. Presumably she lives somewhere in inner London where nearly every state primary school I'm aware of has Breakfast and after school clubs, or nearby children's centres . She just doesn't want her precious darling, who is so 'advanced' you understand, mixing with the poor. She's a grasping arsehole whose commitment to state education probably amounted to a few vaguely positive statements made at dinner parties to fit in. 

That said, I do mostly agree with William of Walworth's arguments. All papers have their online troll nip.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2012)

tbf her piece is either a clever troll or the mouthings of someone who has all the self awareness of a dorito


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> tbf her piece is either a clever troll or the mouthings of someone who has all the self awareness of a dorito


 
Dorito, blatantly.


----------



## Cartwright (Jul 26, 2012)

The OP means the _Grauniad_ surely?


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 26, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Dorito, blatantly.


 
Bit bland those things.


----------



## weepiper (Jul 26, 2012)

That article gave me the rage the other day. As if having a child who is ‘achieving way beyond expectations for her age in reading, writing and numeracy’ is only possible because you send them to private school. When my (single parented, dependent on benefits family) middle son started school they did a learning support evaluation of him because he was already a very fluent reader and he apparently had a reading age of ten (aged five). But no-one pays me to publish self-congratulatory articles about how terribly _advanced_ and _outstanding_ he is and it's all thanks to his _wonderful_ school with its class size of 34 kids and isn't it _marvellous_ how they have to eat their lunch in shifts because the dining hall's too small to accomodate them and do you know, they did _amazing_ things with temporary heaters last year because they couldn't afford to replace the boiler.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Jul 26, 2012)

Cracking front page self-parody tomoz. At least, we must assume it is a deliberate attempt at humour.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 26, 2012)




----------



## temper_tantrum (Jul 26, 2012)

Ta Butchers.


----------



## killer b (Jul 26, 2012)

jesus fuck


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2012)

weepiper said:


> That article gave me the rage the other day. As if having a child who is ‘achieving way beyond expectations for her age in reading, writing and numeracy’ is only possible because you send them to private school. When my (single parented, dependent on benefits family) middle son started school they did a learning support evaluation of him because he was already a very fluent reader and he apparently had a reading age of ten (aged five). But no-one pays me to publish self-congratulatory articles about how terribly _advanced_ and _outstanding_ he is and it's all thanks to his _wonderful_ school with its class size of 34 kids and isn't it _marvellous_ how they have to eat their lunch in shifts because the dining hall's too small to accomodate them and do you know, they did _amazing_ things with temporary heaters last year because they couldn't afford to replace the boiler.


 
intelligence, even academic achievement and the like is not really to do with the school ffs. actually intelligence doesn't exist, but try writing that in a puff piece for the guardian


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Bit bland those things.


 

Tangy cheese is the one to go for but it leaves you with the cheesy reek people associate with sex crime..


----------



## treelover (Jul 27, 2012)

'Even up to the last minute, in the final days of preparation, the question of whether Britain can actually pull this off has seemed in doubt. A wearily familiar narrative is already in place: the Britain of the Daily Mail and Crap Towns, the Britain where nothing works any more. If it wasn't the failure of G4S to provide security staff, it was the threat by the PCS to call border guards out on strike. One an incompetent company made rich by privatisation, the other a militant-led trade union, the two seemed to spell out twin aspects of our troubled political past: Thatcherism and the winter of discontent uniting to ruin the Olympics.'

Jonathan Freedland in an otherwise quite good article sees an equivalence between Thatcherism and unions during the 'winter of discontent' without contextualising the strikes, etc...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 28, 2012)

What more would you expect from Freedland the massive cunt?


----------



## rekil (Jul 28, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> What more would you expect from Freedland the massive cunt?


Freedland a couple of weeks ago.

Labour has to voice public anger, before it's too late



> Thatcher's ministers used to say the pits had to close because they were "uneconomic", and damn the social consequences. Is it any wonder that Thatcher's children now ask themselves not whether a decision – to rig a banking rate, take a bung or raid the public purse – is right, but whether it's "economic"?
> 
> [...]
> 
> Finally, Labour has to voice this anger. Ed Miliband did so early, with his assault on "predator" capitalism. He needs, though, to go further, not just so that his party can win back power – but for the sake of democratic politics itself. For if this rage does not find a peaceful outlet, it will find another way. But make no mistake: it will out.


----------



## rekil (Jul 30, 2012)

In praise of … Elizabeth, the Bond girl



> This was the moment which – ahem – crowned Danny Boyle's triumph, since even republican Olympophobes had to admit this was something they'd not seen before. It also enabled a Diamond Queen to reveal a sense of humour hitherto hidden during her 60-year reign. Secure in her jubilee popularity, let's hope she dares to share it again.


Yucky.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 30, 2012)

Yer she's about to do the edinboro fringe allright


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 30, 2012)

What a pile of nauseating shit ... 

(edited the rest -- made a mistake about when that appeared)


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 30, 2012)

(Didn't have too many problems myself with the Olympic opening stuff as such, on Friday , you can like parts of that without coming out with vomit inducing shite like the above.  But I won't go any more Olympics on this thread)


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2012)

Odd critique of that silly woman up the thread who sent her kid to private school - it seems to totally accept her basis for doing so (it's best for her kid) but argue that a state school would be just as good. Doesn't challenge the private school system nor the thinking behind individuals use of it really.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh dear...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/interactive/2012/jul/31/team-gb-poster-keep-calm-and-carry-on


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 3, 2012)

This one is more the whinger than the paper really: 



> Unemployed after a Phd.
> 
> "I'm called complacent for failing to respond to listed vacancies for checkout operators at Asda."


 


> Floating free of the university, I encounter few people in my daily life who care about my talents as a writer and researcher.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 3, 2012)

"unemployed after a Phd"

A hah ha hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 3, 2012)

Welcome to the 'real world.'


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 3, 2012)

fuck me sideways, the sheer horror of getting the arse from job centre bods. The horror, the horror.


----------



## weepiper (Aug 3, 2012)

> Three months after finishing his PhD, one young academic is now claiming job seekers allowance





> I have applied for around twenty jobs and received one interview, which was unsuccessful.


 
Cry me a river.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 3, 2012)

Click on the jobs link. Not for me and ye. Not for people like us.


----------



## weepiper (Aug 3, 2012)

nah. £40,000+ salary? I wish


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 4, 2012)

40k per year to write shit-eating justifications for sending yer kids private. That'd be nice.


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 4, 2012)

weepiper said:


> Cry me a river.


better still the song, i'll drown in my own tears


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 4, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> "unemployed after a Phd"
> 
> A hah ha hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha


 
I'm trying to get my head around why he's assuming that he's an academic merely by dint of his Phd. Yes, he's obviously shown that he's fitted for a role in academia, but so do thousands of others every year, and you don't see them moaning in the Guardian about how tough life is when they don't get the breaks that enable them to pursue an academic career.
Being a slightly cynical person, I get the strong feeling that the anonymous author is related to someone on the Guardian editorial team.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 4, 2012)

The gogarty effect


----------



## rekil (Aug 4, 2012)

On a related note, Laurie Penny's sister.




			
				Eleanor Penny ‏@batrachianlips said:
			
		

> What an irredeemably shit slogan for #demo2012. Who are we asking to "Educate, Employ, Empower" us? Insipid and wheedling.


Public school/Oxbridge then enquire within public school/oxbridge educated chum bubble for the shtart.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 7, 2012)

Thomas Smith said:


> A forum for political chatter. About the things that really matter.
> spammityspamspam.com
> 
> It's a rubbish blog by a sixth form politics student.


----------



## youngian (Aug 8, 2012)

Why pubic hair is good-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/07/pubic-hair-has-job-stop-shaving


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 8, 2012)

quality journalism


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 8, 2012)

youngian said:


> Why pubic hair is good-
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/07/pubic-hair-has-job-stop-shaving


oh the mayor of bayswater has got a lovely daughter
and the hairs on her dicky di do hang down to her knees
one black one white one and one with a bit of shite on
if she was my daughter i would have them cut shorter

It's a long time since i have the rugby songs i hope i have right


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 8, 2012)

shite on/shorter doesn't rhyme


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 8, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> shite on/shorter doesn't rhyme


Maybe it's part of my evil youth i thought i might not get it right


----------



## Dusty Bint (Aug 8, 2012)

Nor do daughter and knees.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2012)

Dusty Bint said:


> Nor do daughter and knees.


&?


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 8, 2012)

have found the actual lyrics

The Mayor of Bayswater, [1]
He has a lovely daughter,
And the hairs on her dicky-di-doe,
Hang down to her knees.

Leader: And the hairs,
Pack: And the hairs,
Leader: And the hairs,
Pack: And the hairs,
Leader: And the hairs,
Pack: On her dicky-di-doe,
Hang down to her knees.
One black one, one white one,
And one with a bit of s***e on,
And the hairs on her dicky-di-doe,
Hang down to her knees.

I've smelt it, I've felt it,
It's just like a bit of velvet.

i was going to put the full lyrics but it is rather rude but if you google it you will get the lyrics


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2012)

i love the headings & subheadings of the simon jenkins opinion pieces when he writes a few hundred words of sage advice to the lib dems on what to do next when things have fucked up for them again (ie, once a week). today's is glorious:




> CLEGG'S IN THE LAST DITCH. NOW IS THE TIME FOR HIM TO FIGHT
> Defeat over Lords reform gives Lib Dems a chance to impact on coalition policy where it most matters: the economy


 
every disaster is an opportunity, every defeat simply opens a new door to victory!


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 8, 2012)

Pravda


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2012)

i never read the columns tbh - they may be more nuanced. but the headlines are certainly of that ilk...


----------



## tbtommyb (Aug 9, 2012)

The Graun's going down the pan because the website has turned into a series of live feeds just saying what's happening with barely any contextualisation. Thanks lads, I can find the AP feed myself. Though the Olympic updates have oddly gone the other direction and seem to be written by people with little knowledge of the sport who fill the space by putting in horribly patronising and smug comments about random crap.


----------



## rekil (Aug 10, 2012)

John Kampfner - The Lib Dems are in a stronger position than the Tories – but hide it well


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 10, 2012)

copliker said:


> John Kampfner - The Lib Dems are in a stronger position than the Tories – but hide it well


What is this bloke on claggy is fucked and it's the british electorate who are going to fuck him up the arse ,the way he has done to us


----------



## JimW (Aug 10, 2012)

copliker said:


> John Kampfner - The Lib Dems are in a stronger position than the Tories – but hide it well


And he starts the piece with (a particularly shit rendition of) hoary old chestnut about crisis/opportunity which drives Sinologists up the wall because it's bollocks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 10, 2012)

I'm sure the intention was honourable. 

Wait thats the japanese.

I'm sure the intention was inscrutable


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 10, 2012)

copliker said:


> John Kampfner - The Lib Dems are in a stronger position than the Tories – but hide it well


What a fucking moron.

This is particularly pathetic


> The less tribal among Ed Miliband's team are already thinking these thoughts, which is a considerable improvement on Labour's arrogance in 2010. Some, however, are talking about a deal only if Vince Cable is in charge. Labour strategists should be reminded they will not be in a position to choose another party's leader.


No mention that the LibDems demanded Brown's head during their negotiations with them after the last GE.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 10, 2012)

> The public appears to appreciate, better than the Westminster village, that give and take is a sign of a mature political system.


 
In your liberal dreams Kampfner


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 10, 2012)

Would you be surprised to learn he was at Westminster with Clegg. However, he went on to Oxford and Clegg to Cambridge.


----------



## rekil (Aug 10, 2012)

shagnasty said:


> What is this bloke on claggy is fucked and it's the british electorate who are going to fuck him up the arse ,the way he has done to us


The whole article is about what a strong position they're in, then he says putting "a strongly liberal stamp on government" is "a desperately tall order" at the end.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 10, 2012)

what planet is he on? they lost deposits in three by elections and in the other three were fighting out in the micro-party spectrum with the loony christian democrats and so on


and they gotcaned during the last round of proper elections


the tories must be pissing themselves with laughter, they've used libs to gain power and then mugged them off. again


----------



## youngian (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes its true-

Jimmy Fallon not hosting Oscars 2013
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2012/aug/09/jimmy-fallon-oscars-2013

I have no clue who Mr Fallon is either, but if there is anyone more famous than him who will not be hosting the Oscars, no doubt the Guardian will be first on the case to report it.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 11, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> what planet is he on? they lost deposits in three by elections and in the other three were fighting out in the micro-party spectrum with the loony christian democrats and so on
> 
> 
> and they gotcaned during the last round of proper elections
> ...


4th party in Scotland, Wales and London - and probably a number of parts of England.


----------



## killer b (Aug 11, 2012)

Oxford alumni Lucy mangan's column today rejoices in the title 'dont blame the stink of inequality on Oxbridge'


----------



## Belushi (Aug 11, 2012)

From the Comments;



> Martin Kettle ? Balliol College, Oxford
> George Monbiot ? Brasenose College, Oxford
> Jonathan Freedland ? Wadham College, Oxford
> Catherine Bennett ? Hertford College, Oxford
> ...


----------



## killer b (Aug 11, 2012)

nice one. I was reading the paper version, embarassingly. Its a remarkably content-free article.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

killer b said:


> Oxford alumni Lucy mangan's column today rejoices in the title 'dont blame the stink of inequality on Oxbridge'


She's got form here - 2007:

Leave Oxbridge alone

It's almost word for word the same article from 5 years ago. is this the sort of lazy pay me twice attitude that oxbridge breeds? Of course the thing this thicko doesn't get is that she - as a state school pupil - has been quietly filtered and selected by the powers behind oxbridge to write this sort of guff to defend their privilige and by extension this priviliged role in wider society - and that just doesn't mean the top jobs - more damagingly it means setting what is acceptable public, cultural, economic and so on public discourse, and in the process normalises this sort of anti--social behaviour. Jesus, this is supposed to be written by a member of the elite. And of course, her only job has been at the guardian - so she is the perfect example of internalising this stuff - it's literally _impossible_ for her to see it.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

Wow, and here she is with the exact same column in 2005:

University elitism

Just how lazy can you get?

This is her btw writing about the day the immigrants left where unemployed people were rounded up and made to do shit-work she would never dream of:



> You looked in vain for a glimmer of shame or embarrassment in any of them, but came up emptyhanded. You could try to tell yourself that their attitudes masked the insecurities that come with unemployment, and at times Davies bent over backwards to put a better gloss on their behaviour: at one point, he tried to suggest to the farm owner that availability of foreign labour had made employers lazy when it came to "coaxing and motivating" local workers. But it was hard not to suspect, as you watched the infuriating dozen, stunned by the prospect of physical labour, resentful of any advice, childish and utterly unmotivated by the presence of a television crew or the knowledge that even their greatest perceived sufferings would be over within 48 hours, that the natives might just be revolting.


 
Program was presented by Evan Davis - _Oxbridge_ and Harvard.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

Jesus, look out Sarah Teather:

Corrie: the unlikely Cambridge University storyline revealed

Who let her write this...this...this shit?


----------



## killer b (Aug 11, 2012)

Never seen that day the immigrants left bit before. What utter scum she is. I thought she was just a lightweight shithead...


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

It's gets even better - in the middle of those three identical pieces arguing that educational inequality doesn't matter that much, it's just a symbol, we find her arguing:

Lucy Mangan: Divide and rule begins at school



> There is nothing more pernicious than the educational divide in this country. It is as entrenched and detrimental to our national mental wellbeing as the health divide in the US. And, like the American health-care system, any attempt to recognise or reform it seems to antagonise not just those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, but also, somehow, many who would most benefit from the dismantling of it


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2012)

i think she veers from one position to another,

btw, i have plenty of issues with the guardian, but if it went, it would be a disaster, it has been great on benefit issues this last year, are detractors on here going to going to start a new paper, etc?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/10/prison-labour-tory-assault-incomes

what other paper would commission an article on cheap prison labour, a rather good one even if it is by Seymour...


----------



## killer b (Aug 11, 2012)

piss off william.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

treelover said:


> i think she veers from one position to another,
> 
> btw, i have plenty of issues with the guardian, but if it went, it would be a disaster, it has been great on benefit issues this last year, are detractors on here going to going to start a new paper, etc?


if you're not saying we shouldn't point out when it prints this shit, who it gets to write it, what filters are at work etc then what is the point of that post? Are you saying that we shouldn't talk about these things?


----------



## killer b (Aug 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is her btw writing about the day the immigrants left where unemployed people were rounded up and made to do shit-work she would never dream of:


i know it's a few years old, but the more i think about this article, the more i hate her. jesus. 'a persistent and fatally crippling sense of grievance and entitlement'.


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2012)

@BA

'Above all, there is a reluctance to understand the riots as a further episode in the history of postwar British urban unrest, a shout for attention from people who feel shut out, whose education was a catastrophe and whose job prospects are nil, who see the rest of the world – even in a slump – cling to advantage they can only dream of, in short, a response to a world where there is too little incentive to be law abiding. This is a failure of politics, and it threatens to return to haunt those who will not listen.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/10/august-riots-year-anniversary-editorial


Of course not, this is urban, it has a different perspective(though sadly less read nowadays) but what other paper would provide this editorial?, what do posters like Killer want to see if the G fails, there is no left wing alternative on the horizon...


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

treelover said:


> of course not, this is urban, it has a different perspective(though sadly less read nowadays) but what other paper would provide this editorial, what do poster like Killer want to see if the G fails, there is no left wing alternative on the horizon...


Do you really think this thread is going to kill it?

The G, isn't left-wing either. It's rabid right-wing. That it dresses it up in sanctimonious hand-wringing liberalism whilst supporting the stuff it's hands are wrung/washed about is precisely why this thread exists.


----------



## killer b (Aug 11, 2012)

i honestly think the world would be no worse without the guardian. it's shit. and perhaps without it, it's readers would look for an actual alternative viewpoint.


----------



## rekil (Aug 11, 2012)

Just one little tattoo



> When Tess Morgan's son came home with a tattoo, she was griefstricken. She knew her reaction was OTT (he's 21) but it signalled a change in their relationship


 


> My husband asks, "Have you seen it yet?"
> 
> I shake my head. Like a child, I am hoping that if I keep my eyes tightly shut the whole thing will disappear.
> 
> ...


Some shit (or genius) freelancer taking the piss surely.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 11, 2012)

Know it's old but this about Indian call centre staff in Indian prisons (a bit like the british one only cheaper) being portrayed as a good thing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/01/call-centre-inside-indian-jail?INTCMP=SRCH


----------



## youngian (Aug 12, 2012)

Belushi said:


> From the Comments;


 
That's quite a list. I'm not concerned they are employing Oxbridge people who are learned academics, with a large body of interesting work, like Timothy Garton Ash or decent reporters and correspondents like Seamus Milne whose work justifies itself on merit.
What is depressing in that list is that they are stacked with lifestyle Polly Filler columnists who write observations of no more importance or interest than any layperson you meet down the pub who could get the hang of that job after a few weeks.


----------



## tbtommyb (Aug 12, 2012)

While at Merton, Tanya Gold tried to stab her ex boyfriend with a bread knife. She was addicted to alcohol but moved on to cough syrup instead.

true story.


----------



## treelover (Aug 13, 2012)

'http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...h-community?commentpage=all#start-of-comments


Article by Rowenna Davis (London Labour Councillor) on alternative job seeking social enterprises, she seem to take the role of the Job Centre at face value, it may have been a labour exchange once, but surely now its a instrument to control/oversee the unemployed..


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 13, 2012)

killer b said:


> i know it's a few years old, but the more i think about this article, the more i hate her. jesus. 'a persistent and fatally crippling sense of grievance and entitlement'.


 
_You looked in vain for a glimmer of shame or embarrassment in any of them, but came up emptyhanded. You could try to tell yourself that their attitudes masked the insecurities that come with unemployment, and at times Davies bent over backwards to put a better gloss on their behaviour: at one point, he tried to suggest to the farm owner that availability of foreign labour had made employers lazy when it came to "coaxing and motivating" local workers. But it was hard not to suspect, as you watched the infuriating dozen, stunned by the prospect of physical labour, resentful of any advice, childish and utterly unmotivated by the presence of a television crew or the knowledge that even their greatest perceived sufferings would be over within 48 hours, that the natives might just be revolting._





no fucking wonder they weren't motivated by a tv crew, to be gawped at like some freak show. what the fuck did she know about them?


----------



## Belushi (Aug 13, 2012)

I'd love to see Mangan working for a gangmaster  in the fens, she wouldn't last an hour.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 13, 2012)

Breaking rocks for gravel.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 13, 2012)

I would fucking love C4 to make a follow up where a dozen journos do manual jobs for a week.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 13, 2012)

Here's the thread about the show from the time

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/the-day-the-immigrants-left.243998/page-4#post-8866541


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 13, 2012)

Do my job for a week.  Always understaffed, big workloads.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 13, 2012)

Would actually get to work alongside immigrants as well, instead of just writing about them.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2012)

Alt_title: why can't all the manual/semi-skilled people just go away. Rejected.


----------



## FNG (Aug 13, 2012)

Belushi said:


> I'd love to see Mangan working for a gangmaster in the fens, she wouldn't last an hour.


 

That reminds me of an earlier public eye program about gangmasters in 1993, and the write up that it got.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-hours-to-harvest-britains-crops-1510810.html

I guess with all the workfare bs going on i shouldn't be suprised that the tories are planning to detooth the Gangmasters Licensing Authority, but sheesh

http://worldfinancialpost.com/gangmasters-watchdog-told-to-cut-red-tape.html


 Incidently i knew one of the participants in the DTIL program, she was a single parent with 2 girls at primary school.It makes me angry  that the job centre refered her to participate in this when the working hours on a permenent basis would be impossible to manage.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 13, 2012)

Jesus fucking christ, these cunts really are taking us back to the 19th century


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 13, 2012)

killer b said:


> i honestly think the world would be no worse without the guardian. it's shit. and perhaps without it, *it's readers would look for an actual alternative viewpoint*.


 
Perhaps some of us already do?

Seeing some info/news in there and using that -- and other things -- as an occasional springboard to look for other/better/more detailed stuff on here or on other websites?

I'm sure plenty of Graun readers don't do this -- some are even lazier than I am  


But some do, maybe more than people think.

Come on. Not all their readers are the stupid unimaginitive over-privileged numpties that the G-haters insist they are on here. Their refusal to accept there's anything at all worthwhile in that paper, ever, just makes them look completely prejudiced -- and maybe even swivel-eyed sometimes.

I'd never condone that old (?) article froggy has lifted something from above, and I've agreed with plenty on here quite often about some of the other bad/worse stuff in there too. Fucks sake, I've been reading it myself, and regularly, for far longer than most, and it can piss me off just as it does other Urbans.

But then again the reason the links I post now and again are more often positive examples of content rather tnan negative examples (and I've posted them too, sometimes) is because I'm capable of taking a less hate-fuelled view. And for boring old balance!

Ask yourself what the mainstream media as a whole would be like as a range, without the Guardian there? It wouldn't be any better, thats for sure, nothing better would replace it. Just a hole to be filled by either nothing, or (more likely?) sources even more out and out right wing with none of the redeeming features. (eg would any other paper have done the phone hacking stuff in such detail, and so early?)

Features which almost no thread regular on here allows themselves to accept exist at all in the Guardian anyway -- appearing  near demented on this subject ...

Yet all I'm doing is requesting (futilely?) a more balanced perspective ... not that that'll cut any ice on this thread, because a fair few seem convinced that I'm a diehard Guardian worshipper or some such lying bollox ...

Perhaps the main reason I stick with it, all 137-plus vareties of warts and all, is because it gets me thinking, just as being on here does. And some things are actually well written -- not that I ever see examples linked to on this thread ...

And no, of course it's not 'all about me'  my points are about the much wider/more general picture -- there's more than enough Graun readers, including some on here, who are at plenty as leftie/TU minded/politically independent-thinking as anyone else can be and in some cases more so .... they don't read it for the lifestyle shit on Saturdays etc ...


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 13, 2012)

Just give it up, William.  They hate us.  They hate you.


----------



## killer b (Aug 13, 2012)

Yeah, you said that last week too.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 13, 2012)

Why should I 'give up?' I'm not mindlessly defending its faults or denying them am I?

 As reading the above *properly*   would tell you.


----------



## killer b (Aug 13, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Come on. Not all their readers are the stupid unimaginitive over-privileged numpties that the G-haters insist they are on here. Their refusal to accept there's anything at all worthwhile in that paper, ever, just makes them look completely prejudiced -- and maybe even swivel-eyed sometimes.
> ...


where did you get this from btw? This thread is about the content of the paper, not the character of its readers.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 13, 2012)

Oh yeah that old Lucy Mangan article. It was ages ago, and I joined in with roundly condemning it at the time. Twas utterly shit true.

Meanwhile, no-one mentions Amelia Gentleman. a much more serious and investigative journalist ... she's about as '19th century' about the benefits system and claimants as Belushi is.

Not that people here ever show signs of bothering to look at articles like hers. Folks just want to join in the lazy sweepingly judemental Guardian-hatred, on the back of carefully handpicked articles that are particularly arseholeish -- but not even that representative of the paper necessarily ...

And that Managan shit attracted plenty of online negativeity against it on Comment is Free at the time AfAIK anyway, as well as the usual trolls ared twats who hang around CiF -- far worse than on here in some respects, which is why I rarely rummage around there myself. Still you do get good people fighting the corner as well at times, whether on CiF ot on the old school letters page.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 13, 2012)

killer b said:


> where did you get this from btw? This thread is about the content of the paper, not the character of its readers.


 
Highly selective and handpicked examples of said content.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 13, 2012)

Why not start a counter-examples thread?


----------



## killer b (Aug 13, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Highly selective and handpicked examples of said content.


Yes. That's because this is a thread about shit articles in the guardian.

Where are people laying into the readers on this thread? Or did you just make that bit up?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Highly selective and handpicked examples of said content.


I think you're stuck by being forced to handpick people like your example as the rest is so utter shit.


----------



## treelover (Aug 13, 2012)

Amelia won the Orwell prize this year, some cracking articles on poverty, workfare, etc, shame she is married to Joe Johnson thought...

Having said that, on Cif, there are some brilliant WC writers btl, who remind you of Jack Common, authentic, not writing from an elevated perspective, they should have a chance...


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2012)

Bradford lad.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2012)

treelover said:


> Amelia won the Orwell prize this year, some cracking articles on poverty, workfare, etc, shame she is married to Joe Johnson thought...
> 
> Having said that, on Cif, there are some brilliant WC writers btl, who remind you of Jack Common, authentic, not writing from an elevated perspective, they should have a chance...


Stop hoping after hope, year after year, even with this opening up that the internet has provided it's the same old schools just expanded over a wider space.


----------



## treelover (Aug 13, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Common

Er, Newcastle, Heaton?

Friend of Orwell as well. all good...


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 13, 2012)

treelover said:


> Jack Common


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2012)




----------



## rorymac (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm thinking that the Guardian .. much as it has great and serious articles is a load of ol wank at the end of the day 

pfffft


----------



## treelover (Aug 13, 2012)

who is that?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2012)

Joe johnson


----------



## Meltingpot (Aug 13, 2012)

Yeah, there's a nice story about him. Apparently the word got around that no snooker player featured on the cover of the Radio Times in the issue covering the World Championship ever won the Championship. So, in 1986 they got all the top players to pose for the RT cover, but Joe wasn't there because he was still an unknown that year. And, of course, he went on to win it.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 13, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Why not start a counter-examples thread?


 
Well I did admit I'm lazy! 

Maybe in the winter when I have more time on here than I do atm.

Point/reminder taken on it being meant from the beginning to be a 'shit articles' thread.

Just losing it sometimes on how _excessively_ overdone that can be  on here this here thread. Hence earlier (re)rant  which I stand by generally ..


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 13, 2012)

rorymac said:


> I'm thinking that the Guardian .. much as it has great and serious articles is a load of ol wank at the end of the day


 
Know what though, I get that feeling sometimes  ... then I read the good bits

Time for a break. From this thread or the Guardian?


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 14, 2012)

youngian said:


> r decent reporters and correspondents like Seamus Milne whose work justifies itself on merit..


Has Milne done anything decent recently? His book on the miners strike was good but that was some time ago now and the people/articles he gets for the comment/opinion section of the Guardian are often pretty poor. I mean there's a few good pieces in there (I've got quite a bit of time for Gary Younge) but it's outweighed by the dross.


----------



## youngian (Aug 14, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Has Milne done anything decent recently? His book on the miners strike was good but that was some time ago now and the people/articles he gets for the comment/opinion section of the Guardian are often pretty poor. I mean there's a few good pieces in there (I've got quite a bit of time for Gary Younge) but it's outweighed by the dross.


 
Think you're right, I'll swap Milne for Ben Goldacre


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2012)

The private school and Oxbridge Goldacre?


----------



## killer b (Aug 14, 2012)

I hate goldacre. Any good stuff he writes is drowned in a sea of smug.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2012)

True - he wears tank-tops too. A true one-off. An individual swimming in a sea of shit. Kept afloat by his tank-top.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 14, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Why should I 'give up?' I'm not mindlessly defending its faults or denying them am I?
> 
> As reading the above *properly*   would tell you.


William have you actually married the Guardian?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 14, 2012)

Has posh bashing gone too far?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/aug/14/posh-bashing-benedict-cumberbatch


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Has posh bashing gone too far?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/aug/14/posh-bashing-benedict-cumberbatch


Lordy, no option for 'not far enough'.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 14, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Has posh bashing gone too far?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/aug/14/posh-bashing-benedict-cumberbatch


 
That cannot be a real name. I refuse to believe it


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> That cannot be a real name. I refuse to believe it


 
Are you racist against scotch people?


----------



## treelover (Aug 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> That cannot be a real name. I refuse to believe it


 

He, BC, is a great guy, he once did a piece for a doc on the NHS, leave him alone...


----------



## killer b (Aug 14, 2012)

why? he's a whining posh cunt on this occasion. fuck 'im.


----------



## rekil (Aug 14, 2012)

His (5k minimum per term) primary school. Fencing, shooting, fucking golf etc. 

Type	Day and Boarding School
Established	1919 [1]
Principal	H.D.C. *Cocke,* B.A., Cert.Ed.
Website	http://www.brambletye.co.uk/

Chortle.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2012)

copliker said:


> His (5k minimum per term) primary school. Fencing, shooting, fucking golf etc.
> 
> Type Day and Boarding School
> Established 1919 [1]
> ...


And that before he somehow got a scholarship to Harrow. Which is sort of revealing about all these people who only go to elite places on scholarships isn't it? (I like how you've bolded Cocke btw).


----------



## rekil (Aug 14, 2012)

Here's a couple from the vaults by Martin Kettle. I was looking for whoever wrote the one about Germans being idiots if they didn't vote for Merkel in 2005 but couldn't find it, but this is close enough.

Schröder has been a disaster, so I'm rooting for Merkel

Socialism is dead. Long live liberalism and social justice


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 14, 2012)

a primary school where people learn to shoot? Yeah, nothing can possibly go wrong there.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2012)

copliker said:


> Here's a couple from the vaults by Martin Kettle. I was looking for whoever wrote the one about Germans being idiots if they didn't vote for Merkel in 2005 but couldn't find it, but this is close enough.
> 
> Schröder has been a disaster, so I'm rooting for Merkel
> 
> Socialism is dead. Long live liberalism and social justice


Yes, i remember the second one very well - and the thing is, the set that produces this have decided that this is _expertise_, that this is full command of the subject.


----------



## youngian (Aug 15, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Has posh bashing gone too far?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/poll/2012/aug/14/posh-bashing-benedict-cumberbatch


 
He's thinking of going to America, where he can bag plenty of Hollywood villian roles.

I don't know what he's on about, the economic reforms enacted since Thatcher and continued by Blair and Cameron have never made this country more pro posh since the Edwardian era.


----------



## rekil (Aug 15, 2012)

> Today the Guardian announced the addition of Josh Treviño to their editorial team. Formerly of the Texas Public Policy Foundation, Treviño will be the newest Correspondent for the Guardian’s growing US politics team through his column “On Politics & Persuasion” which launches on Monday, August 20.
> 
> “We are pleased to have Josh join the Guardian,” said Janine Gibson, editor-in-chief of the Guardian US. “He brings an important perspective our readers look for on issues concerning US politics,” added Gibson.
> 
> Treviño's background spans from speechwriting for the Bush Administration to conceiving and co-founding RedState. Treviño is also a writer-at-large for the magazine Texas Monthly.


Welcome. Massive loon.




			
				Joshua Treviño ‏@jstrevino said:
			
		

> Dear IDF: If you end up shooting any Americans on the new Gaza flotilla -- well, most Americans are cool with that. Including me.


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 15, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> a primary school where people learn to shoot? Yeah, nothing can possibly go wrong there.


We didn't have time for that unless include pea shooter and elastic band with folded bit of cardboard ,we were too busy having a fag in the bog


----------



## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

This sums up why I hate The Guardian. Just whose "lifestyle" is this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jun/27/courgette-yoghurt-runner-bean-recipe


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

Will self?


----------



## rekil (Aug 15, 2012)

> I am a big fan of courgettes and runner beans.


Will Self - king of the courgette ultras.


----------



## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Will self?


 
No wonder he looks so miserable. Needs a decent fry-up.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

> Angela Hartnett is chef patron at Murano restaurant and consults at Whitechapel Gallery and Dining Room, London


 

Consults?


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

happie chappie said:


> No wonder he looks so miserable. Needs a decent fry-up.


That's will self, _i'm a die hard leftie but have sent my kids to private school like me._


----------



## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

copliker said:


> Will Self - king of the courgette ultras.


 
Not too keen on courgettes? How about this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/apr/15/g2-weekly-recipe-spring-caponata?recipetitle=The G2 weekly recipe: Spring caponata with mascarpone &amp; basil polenta

Sometimes The Guardian is simply beyond parody.


----------



## treelover (Aug 15, 2012)

copliker said:


> Welcome. Massive loon.


 
just about to post that, is he still a republican?


----------



## treelover (Aug 15, 2012)

happie chappie said:


> This sums up why I hate The Guardian. Just whose "lifestyle" is this?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jun/27/courgette-yoghurt-runner-bean-recipe


 

What on earth is wrong with that recipe?, i'm no foodie but that looks great, cheap and nutritious

btw wasn't long ago on here loads of posters said they were prepared to pay upto 100 pound for a top restaurant meal, can't find thread...


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## killer b (Aug 15, 2012)

Those recipes both look quite nice.


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## Frances Lengel (Aug 15, 2012)

happie chappie said:


> This sums up why I hate The Guardian. Just whose "lifestyle" is this?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jun/27/courgette-yoghurt-runner-bean-recipe


 
Fucks wrong with that ?


----------



## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

killer b said:


> Those recipes both look quite nice.


 
If people are into that kind of recipe, then fine. 

It’s the juxtaposition of them being in a newspaper that supposedly radical that I find difficult to reconcile.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yoghurt+weaver


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## killer b (Aug 15, 2012)

Are radicals not allowed to eat yoghurt? Pot noodles and gravel only, no nice grub comrades!


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

But will self might eat it - remember that.


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## tangerinedream (Aug 15, 2012)

That recipe isn't so bad. Anything in it could be bought at a supermarket and it wouldn't work out so expensive. The ones that fuck me off are the ones that 'stipulate seven strands of lemon saffron (not dried) and 6oz yolwangi paste (see your local turkmenistani deli.) As if everyone in the world lives on the same stretch of London street that they do.


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## youngian (Aug 15, 2012)

happie chappie said:


> This sums up why I hate The Guardian. Just whose "lifestyle" is this?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jun/27/courgette-yoghurt-runner-bean-recipe


 
She sounds a blast-

"I am a big fan of courgettes and runner beans."
'Angela Hartnett's bean salad with goat's cheese recipe'


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## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

tangerinedream said:


> That recipe isn't so bad. Anything in it could be bought at a supermarket and it wouldn't work out so expensive. The ones that fuck me off are the ones that 'stipulate seven strands of lemon saffron (not dried) and 6oz yolwangi paste (see your local turkmenistani deli.) As if everyone in the world lives on the same stretch of London street that they do.


 
I didn't have the time nor inclination to search through all of The Guardian's recipes. These were the first that came to hand. To me, they epitomise a paper that purports to represent the interests of working class people yet has a lifestyle section that is so far divorced from the reality of nearly every working class person I know it's untrue.

Don't believe me - go and stand outside my local dole office and hand these recipes out to the unfortunate sods who have to trudge in there in the vain hope of getting even a minimum wage job.

[That's not a pop at you, btw]


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## cesare (Aug 15, 2012)

"It purports to represent the interests of working class people"? It styles itself as left leaning, but that's not the same.


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

It's not, true. But it does put itself forward as the voice of the working class - or at least it's interests.


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## cesare (Aug 15, 2012)

God, just shows how long it is since I've read it


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

**


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## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

treelover said:


> What on earth is wrong with that recipe?, i'm no foodie but that looks great, cheap and nutritious
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## tangerinedream (Aug 15, 2012)

happie chappie said:


> I didn't have the time nor inclination to search through all of The Guardian's recipes. These were the first that came to hand. To me, they epitomise a paper that purports to represent the interests of working class people yet has a lifestyle section that is so far divorced from the reality of nearly every working class person I know it's untrue.
> 
> Don't believe me - go and stand outside my local dole office and hand these recipes out to the unfortunate sods who have to trudge in the vain hope of getting even a minimum wage job
> 
> [That's not a pop at you, btw]


 
I don't disagree and I don't buy the guardian, precisely because it is as full of 'yknow when your in Knightsbridge' type columns and lifestyle shit. I thought that recipe wasn't such a bad example, but I agree with your point in general.

_'One of the best things Tris and I did was get a wood fired pizza oven, it meant missing out on a holiday to get someone to do it, but with friends, wine and best of all, delicious home baked pizza crowned by our friend Lola's home cured ham, who needs to brave the airport cattle crush?' It was at one such party where conversation turned to {insert topic...}' _


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## xenon (Aug 15, 2012)

happie chappie said:


> I didn't have the time nor inclination to search through all of The Guardian's recipes. These were the first that came to hand. To me, they epitomise a paper that purports to represent the interests of working class people yet has a lifestyle section that is so far divorced from the reality of nearly every working class person I know it's untrue.
> 
> Don't believe me - go and stand outside my local dole office and hand these recipes out to the unfortunate sods who have to trudge in there in the vain hope of getting even a minimum wage job.
> 
> [That's not a pop at you, btw]



It's just recipes from the Life Style section. All lifestyle sections are like that unless they're styalistically set out to be contrary. Asperational, confirmational or reacting to the trend.

And representing working class interests? Always been a middle class liberal lefty reformist type paper AFAIK.

IN summary. Don't be daft.


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## cesare (Aug 15, 2012)

So (sorry, ignorant here) does it explicitly say that it represents working class interests or is it all implied/harking back to its history?


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

cesare said:


> So (sorry, ignorant here) does it explicitly say that it represents working class interests or is it all implied/harking back to its history?


It represents the general interest - so represents working class interests.


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

xenon said:


> It's just recipes from the Life Style section. All lifestyle sections are like that unless they're styalistically set out to be contrary. Asperational, confirmational or reacting to the trend.


 
These are all bad things and worthy of identification, comment and then ridicule.


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## xenon (Aug 15, 2012)

"If Ian Duncan Smith said, when asked about people on benefits struggling to make ends meet, they should knock up a quick courgette, yoghurt and runner bean concoction on the basis that it is “cheap and nutritious” you’d be happy with that?"

TBF that one sounds rank. The other, quite nice. But which ever advice on managing finances IDS or his ilk, might give to struggling peple, would warrent a punch in the face.

e2a quote


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## Belushi (Aug 15, 2012)

The guardian is very well aware of who its target audience is; the liberal, metropolitan, middle class.  

"The worlds leading liberal voice"


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## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

xenon said:


> It's just recipes from the Life Style section. All lifestyle sections are like that unless they're styalistically set out to be contrary. Asperational, confirmational or reacting to the trend.


 
I'm not sure what circles you move in but it's a million miles from my lifestyle and aspirations.


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

Belushi said:


> The guardian is very well aware of who its target audience is; the liberal, metropolitan, middle class.


The filth of the swamps.

High amount of disposable income.


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## killer b (Aug 15, 2012)

What's aspirational about courgette & bean salad ffs. Fair enough if you're posting one of those mental ottolenghi recipes, or Hugh fearnley whittingstalls shite, but both of those are just fucking recipes. Post something shit instead.


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## xenon (Aug 15, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> These are all bad things and worthy of identification, comment and then ridicule.



But too much mocking the, we're all eating organic palenta now darling, type stuff, seems a bit of a waste of shots.

Mind you I haven't started reading it again really TBH, since CiF used to wind me up too much at work.


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## William of Walworth (Aug 15, 2012)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> [the other day]Why should I 'give up?' I'm not mindlessly defending its faults or denying them am I?
> 
> As reading the above *properly*   would tell you.


 


_angel_ said:


> William have you actually married the Guardian?


 
You know better than that  

(and you can *actually read my posts* with less utter shite levels of understanduing than that as well   )

No, truth is, we're still just about living together, after may many years, in a never-formalised co-habitation.

I've tried it on from time to time with the Mirror, Morning Star, Indie, even Telegraph (sport and foreign news only) etc, but none of them worked out.


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

xenon said:


> But too much mocking the, we're all eating organic palenta now darling, type stuff, seems a bit of a waste of shots.
> 
> Mind you I haven't started reading it again really TBH, since CiF used to wind me up too much at work.


I think HC's stuff was slightly misplaced but we don't need to score with every punch.


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## William of Walworth (Aug 15, 2012)

xenon said:


> But too much mocking the, we're all eating organic palenta now darling, type stuff, seems a bit of a waste of shots.


 
Spot on. The real problems with the Guardian, plenty of them too,  lie with far more important stuff.

Criticisms of the paper would surely be more effective for being less dementedly frothfoaming than on this thread, anyway?



> Mind you I haven't started reading it again really TBH, since CiF used to wind me up too much at work.


 
CiF can be a nightmare true. Back to that particular one another time, but there's some real loons post there  ... like anywhere online


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## happie chappie (Aug 15, 2012)

killer b said:


> What's aspirational about courgette & bean salad ffs. Fair enough if you're posting one of those mental ottolenghi recipes, or Hugh fearnley whittingstalls shite, but both of those are just fucking recipes. Post something shit instead.


 
I'm not sure whether this is aimed at me. If so, you'll have to ask the poster who said it was aspirational to ascertain what's aspirational about it. Whatever it is, I don't aspire to it.

Similarly, I'm not sure what "post something shit instead" means if it's aimed at me.


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## William of Walworth (Aug 15, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I think HC's stuff was slightly misplaced but we don't need to score with every punch.


 
And you don't!


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

80% landing. That's bad.


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## _angel_ (Aug 15, 2012)

Belushi said:


> The guardian is very well aware of who its target audience is; the liberal, metropolitan, middle class.
> 
> "The worlds leading liberal voice"


Yeah but they also want to/used to appeal to teachers, social workers, nurses etc but don't really offer them that much.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2012)

killer b said:


> Are radicals not allowed to eat yoghurt? Pot noodles and gravel only, no nice grub comrades!


 
And just remember: If your gravel is served hot, you're posh!


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## Belushi (Aug 15, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> Yeah but they also want to/used to appeal to teachers, social workers, nurses etc but don't really offer them that much.


 
I don't think they do. I think they're trying to widen their appeal to North American metropolitan liberals.


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2012)

Belushi said:


> I don't think they do. I think they're tring to widen their appeal to North American metropolitan liberals.


This is the only market they go for -now  the same twats but over there.


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## William of Walworth (Aug 15, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> Yeah but they also want to/used to appeal to teachers, social workers, nurses etc but don't really offer them that much.


 
Still appeals to plenty in those sectors, whether you think it deserves to any more or not.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 15, 2012)

I like that the Morning Star is actually another name for good ole Satan.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 15, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I like that the Morning Star is actually another name for good ole Satan.


 
I'd buy it if it were still called the Daily Worker.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 15, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is the only market they go for -now the same twats but over there.


 

when the alternative is the fucking scabby  Huffington, then the graun might seem like a breath of fresh air. Fresh, 50 quid a mint scented breath breathing left liberal shite into your face ftw


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## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 16, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I like that the Morning Star is actually another name for good ole Satan.


 
I think it's a deliberate reference, the first revolutionary and all that.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 16, 2012)

Belushi said:


> I don't think they do. I think they're trying to widen their appeal to North American metropolitan liberals.


 
Toby Siegler a real hero.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 16, 2012)

They did an article on "best summer recipes from Pinterest" which I thought was a parody title to begin with.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/aug/03/pinterest-summer-recipes


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## revol68 (Aug 17, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...ink-pc-armour?commentpage=2#start-of-comments

this is pure trolling...

"I can empathise with Cumberbatch. Despite being the epitome of middle middle class (doctor's daughter, grammar-school girl, boho provincial upbringing), being mistaken for a posho has been a lifetime affliction. Maybe it's because I went to Oxford, maybe because I refuse to cultivate a mockney accent, maybe because my friends are all called Tarquin de'ath von Bunface-Toffo, I can somehow (inadvertently) pass and am routinely lambasted for it. As in Cumberbatch's case, the matter has also been raised professionally as the reason why I might not be appropriate for certain posts – largely by norf Lunnon public schoolboys giving it large with glottal stops. Meanwhile, true nobs recognise me for the scumbag I am. "Betts," one once benevolently inquired. "Why aren't you more chippy?"


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 17, 2012)

Silly posh cow.


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## killer b (Aug 17, 2012)

> Still, while David Cameron, George Osborne and co undoubtedly issue from privilege, at least they show a commitment to public service rather than sitting back and counting their swag. And we did elect the blighters.


wtf?


----------



## JimW (Aug 17, 2012)

killer b said:


> wtf?


We are the public and we have been well and truly served, perhaps.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 17, 2012)

it's not a troll, she really believes that the cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 17, 2012)

From that Betts piece of crap:


> Happily, we are no longer permitted to discriminate against gender, sexuality, race, religion, disability and the like, but it is still deemed acceptable – obligatory even – to toff-bash. Those who blanche at ridiculing Essex girls and Gypsy weddings are happy laying into the la-di-da.


 
If you google her and 'chav' and you'll see list of her articles for the telegraph in which she uses the phrase.


----------



## killer b (Aug 17, 2012)

another day, another defence of privilege from the world's leading liberal voice. seems to be a lot of these articles about atm.


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## Belushi (Aug 17, 2012)

It's beyond fucking parody.


----------



## treelover (Aug 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's not, true. But it does put itself forward as the voice of the working class - or at least it's interests.


 

Where/, its a bourgeois paper, you only have to look at the lifestyle pages to see that, I've read it since my 20's and I've never thought of it as orientated towards W/C, etc, having said that just like Newsnight many W/C people read it and feel it does cover their interests, though its increasingly debatable..


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 17, 2012)

treelover said:


> Where/, its a bourgeois paper, you only have to look at the lifestyle pages to see that, I've read it since my 20's and I've never thought of it as orientated towards W/C, etc, having said that just like Newsnight many W/C people read it and feel it does cover their interests, though its increasingly debatable..


I didn't say it was orientated towards the working class, i said it thinks of itself of talking in their interests, of standing up for them - that is their self-image. But of course it can only view the w/c as voiceless poverty stricken doleys who need their paper to speak for up for them.


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## treelover (Aug 17, 2012)

fairy nuff...

some of us have been asking that 'authentic' voices btl on CIF are given a chance ATL...


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## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 17, 2012)

Fabian scum


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## JimW (Aug 17, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Fabian scum


If it was Fabian Scumme-Lightewaite could be the name of a new Guardian columnist


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## DotCommunist (Aug 17, 2012)

we need to persecute these people more, it seems they are mistaking light mockery for systemic violence-this must be rectified.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 17, 2012)

JimW said:


> If it was Fabian Scumme-Lightewaite could be the name of a new Guardian columnist


 
Of the Bucks Scumme-Lightewaites, or those awful _arriviste_ Surrey Scumme-Lightewaites?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 17, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> we need to persecute these people more, it seems they are mistaking light mockery for systemic violence-this must be rectified.


 
Indubitably! If they wish to moan about being persecuted, lets give them something to *really* moan about!


----------



## tbtommyb (Aug 17, 2012)

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but does anyone understand why they recreated bits of the Olympics in lego? I mean, why would you watch that?

With the whole Betts-Cumberpatch article, the comments really show up the gulf between the writers and the readership. I don't think many of the staff would have a good idea of what an average UK salary is, for example.


----------



## killer b (Aug 17, 2012)

you reckon? maybe the columnists, but the journalists on the guardian are notoriously poorly paid. the only reason they can afford to work there is their trust funds.


----------



## rekil (Aug 18, 2012)

nnnnngh


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 18, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/17/ayn-rand-institue-evolving-legacy?newsfeed=true


I think the comment section nails it succinctly 'what a puff piece'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 18, 2012)

copliker said:


> View attachment 22204
> 
> nnnnngh


 
Not even with LLETSA's, mate.


----------



## youngian (Aug 18, 2012)

You've probably been wondering about why all this fuss about Miley Cyrus cutting her hair.

Well the Guardian has decided to confront the issue in an article entitled: "Why all this fuss about Miley Cyrus cutting her hair?"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/17/miley-cyrus-cut-hair-why-fuss

Apparently is not a rejection of femininity or a political statement-It's just a haircut


----------



## xenon (Aug 18, 2012)

hmm. I Withdrawer my earlier rettisence. Kill the fucking lot of 'em.


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## Brainaddict (Aug 19, 2012)

Has anyone posted about the guardian's new murderously-inclined signing Joshua Trevino? He posted this on Twitter at the time of the last gaza flotilla: "Dear IDF: If you end up shooting any Americans on the new Gaza flotilla – well, most Americans are cool with that. Including me."

His 'clarification' here is one of the most dishonest piece of writing I've ever seen: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-news-blog/2012/aug/16/2011-gaza-flotilla-tweet-clarification

Meanwhile Al Jazeera commentators take is interesting: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/08/201281814239801229.html

Essentially he reckons the guardian has decided to move rightward (particularly in the US) in order to follow the advertising dollar. (I like the fact he sneaked in some criticism of AJ too. ). Which seems plausible - can't think why else the guardian would have signed someone they know will piss off most of their British readers.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 19, 2012)

Yep, been mentioned.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 19, 2012)

Okay, sorry, not been keeping up.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 19, 2012)

No harm in in bringing it up again, esp as it offers the opp to highlight that a real right-ward shift is taking place for bluntly instrumental reasons that has even the trad guardian type like Wilby panicking. And as pointed out in the other article, other media is likely to go or already be operating on the same lines - even if they have sugar daddies. So use your critical faculties on RT, prestv and AL-jaz and everything else.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 19, 2012)

Why do you think the guardian is moving to the right butchers? (not that it wasn't already on the right but you know)


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 19, 2012)

To keep financially afloat and attract US based digital advertisers.


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## frogwoman (Aug 19, 2012)

fair play  they're all in real financial trouble at the mo ...


----------



## teqniq (Aug 20, 2012)

Whilst the vacuous nonsense articles are irritating to say the least, the rightward drift and blatant censorship is just depressing. Recently the paper hired a nice chap called Joshua Trevino who infamously tweeted concerning a Gaza Flotilla in 2011: 





> Dear IDF: If you end up shooting any Americans on the new Gaza flotilla – well, most Americans are cool with that. Including me.


 
The above quote is taken from this article which discusses Trevino and the rightwards drift in some detail.

For censorship in the CIF section read this blog post.


----------



## treelover (Aug 20, 2012)

'Dear Guardian Editor,
Your journalists are inconsistent in their use of adjectives to describe organisations. Today for example in your article about the Assange matter you describe Alba as a 'group of leftist governments'. The article above refers to Policy Exchange as an 'influential think tank'. 
You could have referred to Alba as an influential group of governments and to Alba as a 'rightist think tank'. It puts a different gloss on these statements. 
As you know, using epithets in this way suggests to the reader that one is a biased group, one is respectable. Why do you do this? It is gutter journalism more usually associated with rightist media rather than that of an influential newspaper.'

from CIF, its a good spot and is very worrying as it is so blatant..


----------



## Frankie Jack (Aug 21, 2012)

For bigging up Spartacus, three individuals and *bed-tivism* while booting all other disability rights activist people and groups in the bollocks.


----------



## rekil (Aug 21, 2012)

How South America sees the Julian Assange case.

Flagrantly dishonest title as it transpires it's how one Argentinian sociologist sees the Assange case. And no mention of the rape allegations at all.  


> The British foreign secretary, William Hague, later confirmed the threat, thus breaching the Vienna convention, which establishes the immunity of diplomatic headquarters, something that not even the bloodthirsty South American dictators Jorge Videla and Augusto Pinochet dared to do.


For one thing the Cuban embassy in Santiago was attacked during the coup until Harald Edelstam the Swedish ambassador rolled up, put a stop to it, and evacuated the staff. The following day, he employed a bit of diplomatic jiggery pokery and raised the Swedish flag to protect it.


> It is a discouraging sign that the country which, in the mid-19th century, welcomed Karl Marx is now ready to deliver Assange to a country that administers the infamous Guantánamo prison camp, sends prisoners overseas in secret flights to be tortured elsewhere, and deprives alleged criminals of the most elementary right of self-defence, unable to call a lawyer or even to communicate his or her whereabouts to their family.


I'm almost surprised that Assange hasn't been compared to Edelstam, but ah sure Marx will do.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 21, 2012)

Sweden is running gitmo now?


----------



## JimW (Aug 21, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Sweden is running gitmo now?


Ikea torture racks


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 21, 2012)

copliker said:


> The British foreign secretary, William Hague, later confirmed the threat, thus breaching the Vienna convention, which establishes the immunity of diplomatic headquarters, something that not even the bloodthirsty South American dictators Jorge Videla and Augusto Pinochet dared to do.


 
Er...apart from Pinochet arguing his case against extradition to spain on the grounds of leadership immunity. And apart from Videla being behind the attacks on british embassies in the far-right version of this patriotic swill.


----------



## rekil (Aug 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Er...apart from Pinochet arguing his case against extradition to spain on the grounds of leadership immunity. And apart from Videla being behind the attacks on british embassies in the far-right version of this patriotic swill.


I sense real malice behind that piece as opposed to the ignorance and naivety of just about all other attempts to defend Assange. It's hard to believe that he wouldn't be familiar with Videla's antics and the Pinochet saga. Still better than Laura's attempt to chip in though. Didn't know about attacks on british embassies. More pls?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2012)

copliker said:


> I sense real malice behind that piece as opposed to the ignorance and naivety of just about all other attempts to defend Assange. It's hard to believe that he wouldn't be familiar with Videla's antics and the Pinochet saga. Still better than Laura's attempt to chip in though. Didn't know about attacks on british embassies. More pls?


The Junta whipped up patriotic crowds to attack UK embassies in the late 70s (footage of this in the second volume of the doco The Lost Republic) - this was the ridding the country of its external enemies. I think we all know what ridding of the internal enemies was.


----------



## rekil (Aug 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The Junta whipped up patriotic crowds to attack UK embassies in the late 70s (footage of this in the second volume of the doco The Lost Republic) - this was the ridding the country of its external enemies. I think we all know what ridding of the internal enemies was.


Ah yeah, ta, that's been on my list for ages. I was a little bit discouraged by the length. It's a lot of mentalness. I see it's up on YT but no subs.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2012)

copliker said:


> Ah yeah, ta, that's been on my list for ages. I see it's up on YT but no subs.


Not actually that good, worth it for the footage i suppose but the general perspective of the film-makers is awful - basically a pro Yrigoyen-ist approach, _all in it together._


----------



## rekil (Aug 22, 2012)

'Down With The Yrigoyenist Approach!' would make a good PD tshirt wouldn't it.


----------



## cemertyone (Aug 23, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Why do you think the guardian is moving to the right butchers? (not that it wasn't already on the right but you know)


 
The electronic intifada.has an article on its web page about the guardain employing a US zionist
reporter who "welcomed" the deaths of activists on the gaza blockade..then Rusbringer
and the editoral team changed their press statements regarding him 5/6 times in an attempt to distance the paper
from him,,,,
you can read about it at...
the electronic intifida........


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2012)

Or on this thread.


----------



## belboid (Aug 23, 2012)

have we had the bit that was in yesterdays Private Eye yet? 

Roy Greenslade on the latest circulaton figures & associated stuff - the average salary for a Guardian reader is (approx) £36,000pa - showing their readership isnt especially well off, according to Greenslade.  Merely better off than 84% of the working population.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2012)

That's not household - that's individual?


----------



## belboid (Aug 23, 2012)

Yup!


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 24, 2012)




----------



## cantsin (Aug 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


>


 
am kinda intrigued - wtf does that mean ?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 24, 2012)

On the _street_ fashion - from todays paper.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 24, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-against-rape-julian-assange


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-against-rape-julian-assange


 


> The prosecution of Dominique Strauss-Kahn is in jeopardy because of "major holes in the credibility" of his accuser. This is a typical defence. A woman who reports rape is expected to have a virginal past to qualify as a credible rape victim. Often more resources are spent investigating the woman than the man she is accusing, especially if he is rich and powerful and she is not. Several women we work with who reported rape have been put under covert surveillance, with hidden cameras and phone tapping, their sex lives scrutinised. Some were accused of being bad mothers, of being either promiscuous or loners looking for attention, of hating men or being desperate to catch one. Most were working class and/or women of colour.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2012)

i'll tell you another reason the guardian's going down the pan.

it's because they're thick as the proverbial pigshit.

take this story, for example, about julian assange http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/aug/24/julian-assange-arrest-tactics

they wonder what 'ss10' is. but it's clearly 5510, and at the end of the previous line i wouldn't be surprised if there was a U or CW - seems to me it's a cop's number and my money would be on someone from 5tsg.


----------



## cesare (Aug 24, 2012)

Well spotted


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2012)

cesare said:


> Well spotted


they go on about it perhaps being a misspelling of so20 - but there's a correct spelling of so20 in the bloody photo. 

and if it referred to a police UNIT rather than a police OFFICER it would be co or so, not ss. unless there's something we haven't been told.





members of the met's SS10 unit recently


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 25, 2012)

this from archive proves that guardian is not going down the pan it has always been down the pan

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/25/archive-1931-macdonald-forms-coalition


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 26, 2012)

Trevino didn't last long then  - caught out in dishonesty so given the boot.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 29, 2012)

A couple more pathetic puff pieces for the LibDems.

A newspaper or Hello magazine?


> Clegg said the family had had a particularly relaxing break after embarking on a three-hour car journey from his wife's family's home to the north coast of Asturias.
> "It is unbelievable. It is Europe's best kept secret. Just amazing. There are these isolated, deserted beaches, fantastic big mountain ranges and there is nobody there," he said. "Imagine being on a beautiful Cornish beach and when you look around you see almost no people, you see no buildings at all because it is a virgin coastline. And then you look up at soaring mountains. It is completely perfect for small kids. I cannot reach for enough superlatives. A lot of the beaches have some big rollers but then quite long stretches of shallow water where kids can splash around."
> The holidays are now over for the Clegg family, though there is one last treat. He will be taking his children on a private visit to the Paralympic Games.
> "The country has had mild withdrawal symptoms over the last two weeks as the avalanche of gold medal fever has suddenly been snatched away from us. Everybody is absolutely desperate for it to start all over again."


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 29, 2012)

fuck off fuck off fuck off


----------



## teqniq (Aug 29, 2012)

@ frogwoman I tried to think of something suitably withering to say about the above drivel last night but couldn't summon up the energy. That will do for me.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 29, 2012)

Why does "wealth creators"appear here twice not in quote marks before the actual quote?

1: 


> During a visit to Sunderland, chancellor George Osborne said Nick Clegg's plan for an emergency tax on Britain's super-rich might drive wealth creators away


 
2: 


> As a prominent Tory backbencher dismissed the deputy prime minister's proposal that the rich should face a time-limited tax to avoid a breakdown in social cohesion as a pre-party conference "easy clap line", the chancellor said the wealthy already paid more tax and the country should be wary of driving away wealth creators.


 
3:


> During a visit to Sunderland, where he announced an extension to the north-east enterprise zone, Osborne said: "I am clear that the wealthy should pay more, which is why in the recent budget I increased the tax on very expensive property transactions. But we also have to be careful as a country we don't drive away the wealth creators and the businesses that are going to lead our economic recovery."


----------



## killer b (Aug 29, 2012)

They can't drive us away. We can't afford the flights.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 29, 2012)

That Clegg shite was a puffpiece all right   , and I've objected before to Patrick Wintour's Cleggspin ... (Nicholas Watt was pretty much as bad today)

But watch the objections roll in soon online and in letters ... the staff are much more Clegg fans than the readers! 

Time to bump Why The Lib Dems Are Shite thread here?? 
(no time to do that meself sorry)


----------



## yield (Aug 29, 2012)

Hvae you given up supporting the puffpress then William? Good to hear. We'd be better off without the liberal guardian.


----------



## treelover (Aug 30, 2012)

Not if you are disabled or a claimant, they have done some very good work in these areas, if not in the past...


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 30, 2012)

killer b said:


> They can't drive us away. We can't afford the flights.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

treelover said:
			
		

> Not if you are disabled or a claimant, they have done some very good work in these areas, if not in the past...


Remind me, who started this thread?


----------



## treelover (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm nothing if not inconsistent, the thing is, like William I still value the G, warts and all, there is no alternative on the horizon, 'News On Sunday', anyone?, and yes, they have been very good on analysing and reporting welfare issues this last 18 months.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

Well, how about not moaning at people highlighting how and where the Guardian is going down the pan, as per your thread title?


----------



## Santino (Aug 30, 2012)

> History will be quite generous to Nick Clegg, and rightly so in some ways. It will admire him for leading his party into government, for blazing a trail for coalition government, for continuing to promote a distinctively liberal project in prodigiously difficult economic and political circumstances, and for sticking with dignity to his task as his authority was assailed and eroded.


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/29/lib-dems-ruthless-nick-clegg-loser


----------



## treelover (Aug 30, 2012)

It's Kettle, usual M.O..


----------



## killer b (Aug 30, 2012)

the last three words of the URL are the only things right about that article.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 30, 2012)

History will be quite generous to Nick Clegg in that he'll be quickly forgotten, rather than endlessly reviled.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

Nice to see Kettle reaching to the heights of Hegel and Marx once more.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

That's - and i know this will come as a shock to some of you - Martin Kettle, private school then oxbridge.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 30, 2012)

Ha!


> Oh dear me Mr Kettle. Do you really think that Guardian readers will buy this lie? Here's my prediction: history will judge Nick Clegg for what he is, a liar and a charlatan who conned votes from the British public by saying he would do one thing and then doing the opposite. Is their any student out there who would trust this man again? It is people like Clegg who get politicians their bad name. The man is a disgrace but of course the Guardian, and you in particular, support him to the hilt through thick and thin. Loyalty is a wonderful attribute but not when its pledged (good Clegg word that) to a liar and a charlatan. And this statement is simply delusional:
> Mr Kettle, you and your ilk are the reason that the Guardian and the Observer are failing and it's time you stopped treating readers with such contempt.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

Asst editor of the guardian, leader writer:



> Voters still think the Lib Dems did the patriotic thing by going into government at a time of crisis.


----------



## killer b (Aug 30, 2012)

8-9% of them do, i guess.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

Guardian writers go to private school/oxbridge? I think you mean 88-99%.


----------



## treelover (Aug 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> That's - and i know this will come as a shock to some of you - Martin Kettle, private school then oxbridge.


 
I thought his dad was a communist, or at least an ex one..


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> I thought his dad was a communist, or at least an ex one..


He might well have been. So what though? Tony Benn sent his kids to private school.


----------



## killer b (Aug 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Guardian writers go to private school/oxbridge? I think you mean 88-99%.


no, 8-9% of voters still think the Lib Dems did the patriotic thing by going into government at a time of crisis.


----------



## cesare (Aug 30, 2012)

8-9% of increasingly lower numbers.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 30, 2012)

killer b said:


> no, 8-9% of voters still think the Lib Dems did the patriotic thing by going into government at a time of crisis.


Thing is, he doesn't even know how many of them think that. It's just bluster. And the wider picture is that he lives in a world where most people are part of that 8-9%. Which is one reason the guardian is going down the pan.


----------



## shagnasty (Aug 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> I thought his dad was a communist, or at least an ex one..


That's not really a good thing to go by when Russia had it's revolution some strange bedfellows joined the CP didn't mean they bought in to the whole package


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 30, 2012)

cf Millibands


----------



## tbtommyb (Aug 30, 2012)

This is one of my favourite Guardian quotes for a while:

'The daytime diva [Oprah] reveals that she likes feeling "unencumbered" with natural hair ... One is uncomfortably reminded of postcolonial theorist Frantz Fanon's arguments in his seminal 1952 study Black Skin, White Masks, where black upward mobility is expressed via stringent, self-policing white imitation.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/29/cosmetic-surgery-imperialism-women-misery

I'm sure Frantz Fanon is the first people we all think of when discussing Oprah. I have been trying to cut down on my Guardian usage and to find real news via Google News but it's hard to get objective stuff. Why does a storm that killed over a dozen people in the Caribbean suddenly deserve 'live feed' coverage once it gets close to the US? I couldn't find a way to get it off Google News. And don't get me started on that live feed shite. Why don't journalists, you know, find stories rather than just repeating quotes they found on twitter?

e2a: actually screw the Guardian. I hate the way they're just full of middle class tosh and getting even worse as they try to break into the US. Say what you like about the Telegraph but at least they represent what a large part of the right thinks. Commentary-wise I can't remember the last time I read something insightful on the Guardian. News-wise it's just fucking live updates and sarky spins on government press releases. When's the last time they actually investigated something?


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 31, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> He might well have been. So what though? Tony Benn sent his kids to private school.


Did he? I thought he sent them to state schools, I'm sure I read a piece by one of his daughters about how she went to a state school and why she supports comprehensives.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Did he? I thought he sent them to state schools, I'm sure I read a piece by one of his daughters about how she went to a state school and why she supports comprehensives.


He sent them to private primaries.


----------



## articul8 (Aug 31, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Did he? I thought he sent them to state schools, I'm sure I read a piece by one of his daughters about how she went to a state school and why she supports comprehensives.


She went to Holland Park comp?  No idea about primary level - but I'd be surprised if they weren't state ones.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2012)

Hence me saying they didn't _of course_. Check out Hilary's record.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 31, 2012)

I didn't know about Tony Benn doing that - I'm surprised. I always thought he was all right.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 31, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> He sent them to private primaries.


That's odd (to do private primaries and state secondary schools) people usually do it the other way round. Maybe he had a change of heart.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> That's odd (to do private primaries and state secondary schools) people usually do it the other way round. Maybe he had a change of heart.


Maybe it was fear - maybe it was because the secondary school they went to was the best secondary school in the country, The socialist eton of state schools.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 31, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe it was fear - maybe it was because the secondary school they went to was the best secondary school in the country, The socialist eton of state schools.


I'd find it hard to believe that an area that is that posh wouldn't also have had similarly good state primary schools, but hey.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 31, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe it was fear - maybe it was because the secondary school they went to was the best secondary school in the country, The socialist eton of state schools.


 
typical


----------



## ska invita (Aug 31, 2012)

tbtommyb said:


> This is one of my favourite Guardian quotes for a while:
> 
> 'The daytime diva [Oprah] reveals that she likes feeling "unencumbered" with natural hair ... One is uncomfortably reminded of postcolonial theorist Frantz Fanon's arguments in his seminal 1952 study Black Skin, White Masks, where black upward mobility is expressed via stringent, self-policing white imitation.'
> 
> ...


sorry to be contrary - its a really important subject, and not that bad an article IMO (some good comments added). Its lIkely that Oprah has more influence over black politics in the US than Fanon...the news that Oprah has gone natty has even reached me!


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 31, 2012)

yield said:


> Hvae you given up supporting the puffpress then William? Good to hear. We'd be better off without the liberal guardian.


 
Have a _proper_ think about what people would be left with without the Guardian. A *proper*, and _really_ critical think.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 31, 2012)

lol.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 31, 2012)

I've *never* supported the Guardian when it's the puffpress, and never posted uncritically in its favour at all.

 Having an occasional pop at obsessive (sometimes near-demented)  frothfoamers on here who post as if the Guardian is worse than Hitler  is a different thing altogether.


----------



## killer b (Aug 31, 2012)

blah


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 31, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> lol.


 
Glad you enjoy the Guardianless prospect


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 31, 2012)

i don't read the guardian so i guess i've already found out


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 31, 2012)

It's a horrible rag.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2012)

and the fucking ink gets all over your fingers


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 31, 2012)

killer b said:


> blah


 
Dismiss common sense (and dismiss accuracy about both the paper and my take on it) all you want, but my criticisms of the Guardian are simply common sense. What's the point of selective quoting self indulgence from people who'd rather close the fucking thing down than even begin to accept there's ever anything worthwhile and readavle in it?

 All a bit of objectivity takes is critical/selective reading of the thing. Which I'm able to do (been doing it for a fair few years now)  and the 'focus only on its nonsense and ignore everything else' obsessives aren't.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Dismiss common sense (and dismiss accuracy about both the paper and my take on it) all you want, but my criticisms of the Guardian are simply common sense. What's the point of selective quoting self indulgence from people who'd rather close the fucking thing down than even begin to accept there's ever anything worthwhile and readavle in it?
> 
> All a bit of objectivity takes is critical/selective reading of the thing. Which I'm able to do (been doing it for a fair few years now) and the 'focus only on its nonsense and ignore everything else' obsessives aren't.


tbh after seeing the auld times, back when they reported news, every modern paper's a fucking pale shadow of what it might be.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 31, 2012)

I still read it, but I've become increasingly disenchanted with it of late.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 31, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> It's a horrible rag.


 
I work with plenty of people who read the Daily Mail and Sun and regurgitate their shite. Therefore, something *a tad* more intelligent is a welcome lunchtime escape (I have no access to online at work, or in the pub -- zero).

Different takes, eh?


----------



## killer b (Aug 31, 2012)

just bored of you posting the exact same post, over and over again every time your favourite rag is criticised william. same post, every fucking time, for 10 years. probably longer. i was bored after the first time tbh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I work with plenty of people who read the Daily Mail and Sun and regurgitate their shite. Therefore, something *a tad* more intelligent is a welcome lunchtime escape (I have no access to online at work, or in the pub -- zero).
> 
> Different takes, eh?


at least someone regurgitating what they'd read in the mail or the sun wouldn't be vomiting forth something in rusbridger's rag.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Aug 31, 2012)

And people don't regurgitate shite out of the Guardian. 

And are Sun readers unintelligent?  I will pick up and read whatever is left lying around in the canteen at work, including the Sun.  Could be the Telegraph or Guardian on another day.  I'm always a bit wary of people who so solidly identify themselves with, and others (the others usually in a disparaging way, socially and culturally etc) with a newspaper.  It is shallow, and shows a lack of critical intelligence.  It's also immature.  A bit like teenagers who think that liking a certain kind of music defines your whole being.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 31, 2012)

>> CH : At least you're engaging with me, instead of dismissing my points as boring and same old, so ta for that.

Thing is though, long term Guardian dipper-in though I am, I don't support it uncritically or pretend its faultless. Certainly aware too that some people who read it recycle stuff from it without thinking much. Some of its readers talk complete shite. Me included now and again! 

I suppose though I see SOME stuff in it as welcome respite from the out and out *really* right wing stuff you get in other parts of the mainstream. And the better Guardian stuff being welcome respite from its own shiter stuff ... all about selective/critical reading of it like I said.

Just to defend myself here as well, I certainly don't dismiss all Sun (or even  all Mail) readers as stupid -- but I do dislike people who are stupid, or at least gullible, _already_ when they repeat Sun/Mail style sensational anecdotes about claimants, gypsies, immigrants, unions, etc. (ie having therir pre-existing prejudices confirmed). I get plenty of this atm from a small but vocal group of loudmouths at work. And I hear very few challenges from (the majority of) others.

So cos I'm essentially defeatist, and probably far too much of a quiet lifer, I'll try and shut myself off from such peoples' boneheaded nonsense. And in my limited lunchtimes read something more interesting/thought provoking.

I did pick up the Mirror today as well, someone left it around. Political bits not nearly as bad as some tabloids .... celeb shite no better though ... than the Guardian's!


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 31, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> at least someone regurgitating what they'd read in the mail or the sun wouldn't be vomiting forth something in rusbridger's rag.


 
Not the same. Got to go though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 1, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> That's odd (to do private primaries and state secondary schools) people usually do it the other way round. Maybe he had a change of heart.


 
I seem to remember (I think, from a biography of one of Benn's contemporaries) that Caroline Benn insisted on choosing the primary school(s) for their kids, although that might just be some kind of PR exercise to make Tony Benn appear less hypocritical.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2012)

And her a founder of the campaign for comprehensive education!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 1, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> And people don't regurgitate shite out of the Guardian.
> 
> And are Sun readers unintelligent? I will pick up and read whatever is left lying around in the canteen at work, including the Sun. Could be the Telegraph or Guardian on another day. I'm always a bit wary of people who so solidly identify themselves with, and others (the others usually in a disparaging way, socially and culturally etc) with a newspaper. It is shallow, and shows a lack of critical intelligence. It's also immature. A bit like teenagers who think that liking a certain kind of music defines your whole being.


 
This^^^^.
Just read whatever is to hand and then make your own mind-up/source-check, because tabloid, Broadsheet or Berliner, they're all going to be putting *some* lying spin on events.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 1, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Have a _proper_ think about what people would be left with without the Guardian. A *proper*, and _really_ critical think.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 1, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> And her a founder of the campaign for comprehensive education!


 
I know!. I think it might have been a biography of Tony Crosland I read that in. I'd love to know if he really said "I'm going to destroy every last grammar school if it's the last thing I do". It'd partially excuse his reformism.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2012)

i am surprised at tony benn. was he coming out with left wing views at the same time as doing this a la diane abbott or did his views change and get more radical later on?


----------



## Belushi (Sep 1, 2012)

He got more radical as he got older.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:
			
		

> And people don't regurgitate shite out of the Guardian.


 
I remember reading a study where they asked people what paper they read and the results were that people who read the guardian were the most likely to believe that it was always accurate whereas sun and mirror readers were the most likely to think it was often bollocks - I'll try and dig it out later


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2012)

Belushi said:


> He got more radical as he got older.


 
Fair play, I remember reading when he was in the cabinet he was quite a moderate and then when he left he started going more to the left


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 1, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I remember reading a study where they asked people what paper they read and the results were that people who read the guardian were the most likely to believe that it was always accurate whereas sun and mirror readers were the most likely to think it was often bollocks - I'll try and dig it out later


 
Yeah, I'm aware of that too.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Sep 1, 2012)

been doing some research in the Guardian today, busily noting that it was just as shit in 1970, busily parroting whatever bollocks the establishment came out with about the country's economic problems



			
				Guardian Editorial said:
			
		

> “Britain does have a grave industrial relations problem, but it is not just strikes. Paradoxically it may be measured by the fact that there are not more strikes, because employers are too willing to surrender to unreasonable demands and to condone irresponsible behaviour for the sake of buying off trouble.”


Come on employers, hammer your lazy, indolent workers harder!


----------



## cesare (Sep 1, 2012)

I'd rather that though, tbh Lo Siento. Less liberal veneer.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2012)

There needs to be a similar thread about the independent, unbelievable shit in there this week.


----------



## shagnasty (Sep 1, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> There needs to be a similar thread about the independent, unbelievable shit in there this week.


Frogwoman is right the indie does not fair much better.but i must admit the three papers site i go to are the indie ,graun and morningstar ,it shows how bad the rest are


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 1, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> There needs to be a similar thread about the independent, unbelievable shit in there this week.


Business as usual. Actually cannot believe it any time I see it (not often) it spouts total shite.. now we need workfare because Susan Boyle was depressed on the dole, how English prostitutes don't try hard enough to make themselves attractive, ooh how naughty we are inviting our dealers to dinner parties....


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2012)

shagnasty said:


> Frogwoman is right the indie does not fair much better.but i must admit the three papers site i go to are the indie ,graun and morningstar ,it shows how bad the rest are


 

The star is the best of those three.


That David Thomas piece in the indy yesterday about reducin workers right in order to encourage job growth was fuuckin shit


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> Business as usual. Actually cannot believe it any time I see it (not often) it spouts total shite.. now we need workfare because Susan Boyle was depressed on the dole, how English prostitutes don't try hard enough to make themselves attractive, ooh how naughty we are inviting our dealers to dinner parties....


 
environmental catastrophes are to the indie what diana and cancer scares are to the express


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 1, 2012)

_Off-grid living: the basics_


----------



## love detective (Sep 1, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> Business as usual. Actually cannot believe it any time I see it (not often) it spouts total shite.. now we need workfare because Susan Boyle was depressed on the dole, how English prostitutes don't try hard enough to make themselves attractive, ooh how naughty we are inviting our dealers to dinner parties....


 
Have a proper think about what people would be left with without the Independent. A *proper*, and really critical think.

(the guardian)


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 1, 2012)

((beans))


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> The star is the best of those three.
> 
> 
> That David Thomas piece in the indy yesterday about reducin workers right in order to encourage job growth was fuuckin shit


Not just fucking shit, but so obviously cobbled together from factoids that supported the prejudices of the author, it was laughable.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 2, 2012)

Yesterday's Grauniad, Financial Times and International Herald Tribune all have reviews of C. Hitchens' last tome.

And it's much as you'd expect. In the FT, John Lloyd beats his breast over his former membership of BICO, and how he never got around to sending the scab Hitchens the BICO texts he'd requested.

But the Grauniad piece is by Colm Toibin, and it is a sight to behold. . .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/31/mortality-christopher-hitchens-review


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 2, 2012)

Was hitchens actually a scab?


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Was hitchens actually a scab?


 
I'm using "scab" in a metaphorical sense, I hasten to add.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I remember reading a study where they asked people what paper they read and the results were that people who read the guardian were the most likely to believe that it was always accurate whereas sun and mirror readers were the most likely to think it was often bollocks - I'll try and dig it out later


 
I'd like to see that link, plus the figures ... I'm sceptcal to say the least -- not much about the Guardian believers, but more about the suggested scepticism from readers of the tabloids.

Ever worked with tabloid anecdote-recyclers?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> But the Grauniad piece is by Colm Toibin, and it is a sight to behold. . .
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/31/mortality-christopher-hitchens-review


 
Not a single political point in it. Is that your point?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I'd like to see that link, plus the figures ... I'm sceptcal to say the least -- not much about the Guardian believers, but more about the suggested scepticism from readers of the tabloids.
> 
> Ever worked with tabloid anecdote-recyclers?


 
It's true. Call us liars. Prepare your hors derves.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2012)

I'd just like to see that poll that froggy mentioned.

And as I said -- I'm well aware there are plenty of Guardian readers who do take it as gospel.

Not one of them myself, and they do get plenty of online and other responses from other readers who are sceptics/critics.

Would like to know how many regular tabloid readers are equally dissident .... I work with people who both recycle tabloid cliches/anecdotes, and literally _hate_ benefit claimants. Surely some connection.


----------



## Maltin (Sep 2, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I work with people who both recycle tabloid cliches/anecdotes, and literally _hate_ benefit claimants. Surely some connection.


Just because some people hate benefit claimants and immigrants and, especially, immigrant benefit claimants it doesn't mean they can't think the tabloid newspapers are full of shit about other things.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 2, 2012)

what makes you think people are recycling anecdotes from the tabloids? i know people who would never read tabloids but repeat the same shit. a lot of those anecdotes aer to be found in the grauniad as well !


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 2, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> Yesterday's Grauniad, Financial Times and International Herald Tribune all have reviews of C. Hitchens' last tome.
> 
> And it's much as you'd expect. In the FT, John Lloyd beats his breast over his former membership of BICO, and how he never got around to sending the scab Hitchens the BICO texts he'd requested.
> 
> ...


What were you expecting?. A far-left denunciation?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> what makes you think people are recycling anecdotes from the tabloids? i know people who would never read tabloids but repeat the same shit. *a lot of those anecdotes aer to be found in the grauniad as well* !


 
I've spotted a fair few myself time to time, and I'm far from someone who approves to say the least. You know my posting history.

But they will get challenged from readers/CIFers, and overall, which means (IME) that that type of entirely braindead 'claimants are scroungers' stories are pretty few and far between in the G _compared_ to the proportion of such anecdotes in the tabloids.

Plus as me and treelover were posting about here a few pages ago, the Guardian has regular Amelia Gentleman exposes of the worst DWP practices and of claimant-hounding.

On your first question. Well they may not be directly recycling tabloid anecdotes about claimants, well not always. If they're not, they're still pretty likely to be recycling anecdoes from the pub/neighbours/relatives. Guess where some of those peoples' anecdotes come from.

Like I asked before, ever worked with anyone who literally _hates_ benefit claimants? It's not Guardian stuff that *principally* fuels that -- and I've posted before on claimant threads about how the mainstream media, BBC included, collaborates. I don't exclude the Guardian from the collaboration charge, _sometimes. _

But OTOH what about the recent sharp rise in hatecrimes against disabled people? Facts and figures on that weren't properly reported in the Mail were they?

Recently though, the Guardian has had a fair few news and opinion pieces about that.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2012)

Maltin said:


> Just because some people hate benefit claimants and immigrants and, especially, immigrant benefit claimants it doesn't mean they can't think the tabloid newspapers are full of shit about other things.


 
Do agree with that, quite strongly agree as it goes.

But my broader point I'm sticking with, I'm only talking about the more ignorant people after all, and as I mentioned before, I'm not saying *all* Sun etc readers are ignorant/stupid.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 2, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I'd like to see that link, plus the figures ... I'm sceptcal to say the least -- not much about the Guardian believers, but more about the suggested scepticism from readers of the tabloids.
> 
> Ever worked with tabloid anecdote-recyclers?


 
Loads of people just read tabloids for the sports pages or because you can finish the crossword in a ten minute break at work (though saying that, The Sun crossword's quite infernal). Anyway loads of Sun readers refer to it as "the comic", which does suggest they don't attach a great deal of credibility to its contents.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 2, 2012)

mate i have people in my family o on and on about people on benefits etc! none of them read the tabloids. imo the tabloids say this shit because they think it's what people want to hear, rather than the other way round


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Loads of people just read tabloids for the sports pages or because you can finish the crossword in a ten minute break at work (though saying that, The Sun crossword's quite infernal). Anyway loads of Sun readers refer to it as "the comic", which does suggest they don't attach a great deal of credibility to its contents.


 
Taking your point. I sort of agree, so it's not as straightforward as all that agreed.

It's more the people near me at work atm who*  really do *seem to recycle tabloid style scandals -- most often about celebs (but I don't care about them so I just find that sort of story boring and can switch off properly). But pretty often as well about claimants and foreigners, etc.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> mate i have people in my family o on and on about people on benefits etc! none of them read the tabloids. imo the tabloids say this shit because they think it's what people want to hear, rather than the other way round


 
Now that might well be a very fair point -- tabloid talk, and tabloid _style_ talk, reflecting, rather than being the actual foundation, of peoples' prejudices?


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> mate i have people in my family o on and on about people on benefits etc! none of them read the tabloids. imo the tabloids say this shit because they think it's what people want to hear, rather than the other way round


 
Froggie, it is difficult to unravel, though comparative studies on benefits across the EU have always shown the Uk, England? to be the most punitive about welfare, what is certain is that there has been an unholy alliance between the media(inc the 'respectable' BBC) and the govt to demonise claimants and promote welfare reform, remember the 'target' DWP campaigns, i bet your rellies do..


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 3, 2012)

there also doesn't seem to be such a prejudice about being unemployed in other european countries like there is here. Maybe i'm wrong though and i havent spent enough time in those countries to know for sure?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 3, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Now that might well be a very fair point -- tabloid talk, and tabloid _style_ talk, reflecting, rather than being the actual foundation, of peoples' prejudices?


 
The Daily Mail has won awards specifically for the way it is perceived as reflecting the views of its readership rather than shaping them.


----------



## Meltingpot (Sep 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I know!. I think it might have been a biography of Tony Crosland I read that in. I'd love to know if he really said "I'm going to destroy every last grammar school if it's the last thing I do". It'd partially excuse his reformism.


 
According to Roy Hattersley, no he didn't.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 3, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The Daily Mail has won awards specifically for the way it is perceived as reflecting the views of its readership rather than shaping them.


They're often very careful to present the facts without commenting and leading their readers to draw the inevitable conclusion. Apart from the barking mad columnists of course, they're quite clever how they present their stories.


----------



## chilango (Sep 3, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> there also doesn't seem to be such a prejudice about being unemployed in other european countries like there is here. Maybe i'm wrong though and i havent spent enough time in those countries to know for sure?


 
There hasn't been in my experience (living in Portugal, France, Italy).

Nor has there been a campaign of media hate against them either.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Sep 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> There hasn't been in my experience (living in Portugal, France, Italy).
> 
> Nor has there been a campaign of media hate against them either.


Might that partially be the more direct link between what you put into the unemployment fund and what you take out? I mean in Spain at least it's very difficult to demonise unemployed as they can't, even in theory get more money than they contribute. The problem is if it runs out you're fucked


----------



## chilango (Sep 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> There hasn't been in my experience (living in Portugal, France, Italy).
> 
> Nor has there been a campaign of media hate against them either.



Whilst I remember the French and Portuguese press as being reasonably sober the Italian press was every bit as bad as the British, they just were confident enough to be openly racist so didn't need domestic scapegoats.


----------



## cesare (Sep 4, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> Might that partially be the more direct link between what you put into the unemployment fund and what you take out? I mean in Spain at least it's very difficult to demonise unemployed as they can't, even in theory get more money than they contribute. The problem is if it runs out you're fucked



Do Spanish unemployment fund contributions get taken directly from wages ? And is it separate from any other social fund contributions?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> Whilst I remember the French and Portuguese press as being reasonably sober the Italian press was every bit as bad as the British, they just were confident enough to be openly racist so didn't need domestic scapegoats.


you mean they blamed people in other countries rather than eg immigrants?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> there also doesn't seem to be such a prejudice about being unemployed in other european countries like there is here. Maybe i'm wrong though and i havent spent enough time in those countries to know for sure?


That's because here misery loves company


----------



## chilango (Sep 4, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> you mean they blamed people in other countries rather than eg immigrants?



Southerners, gypsies, the EU, Africans, Kebab shops etc.

All "foreign".


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> Southerners, gypsies, the EU, Africans, Kebab shops etc.
> 
> All "foreign".


But once in italy all domestick


----------



## chilango (Sep 4, 2012)

Not according to the press.

All deportable.


----------



## chilango (Sep 4, 2012)

Belusconi did try and whip up red scares about the domestic communist threat, but it wasn't much of a goer really.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Sep 4, 2012)

cesare said:


> Do Spanish unemployment fund contributions get taken directly from wages ? And is it separate from any other social fund contributions?


They take social security contributions when you're working and based on that they calculate how much money you've got for unemployment benefit. It's not seperated from the general social security payments, but it is time limited. At the moment there's a small subsidy (400€ a month) for people whose unemployment benefits have run out, but it's a special supplement that has to be continually sanctioning by congress


----------



## cesare (Sep 4, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> They take social security contributions when you're working and based on that they calculate how much money you've got for unemployment benefit. It's not seperated from the general social security payments, but it is time limited. At the moment there's a small subsidy (400€ a month) for people whose unemployment benefits have run out, but it's a special supplement that has to be continually sanctioning by congress



Thanks LS. That's a lot of calculations to be making unless they do it by some sort of formula, especially if a lot of people regularly take up short term employment and sign on in between.


----------



## Random (Sep 5, 2012)

One of my friends is a Guardian Believer and he's on about this movement started by two Guardian writers: Positive Money. Sounds like the sort of whacky Social Credit thing that times of economic unrest often throw up. Anyone been following this Positive Money phenomenon? Is it linked to Jazzzz-style belief in the power of banking?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2012)

looks like currency fetishism to me, i'm not exactly an expert but lines like 'your loan was created with a keystroke' set alarm bells ringing


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 5, 2012)

firky is a member


----------



## Random (Sep 5, 2012)

Imagine a fight in a carpark between them and the Democracy 2015 lot


----------



## cesare (Sep 5, 2012)

Random said:


> One of my friends is a Guardian Believer and he's on about this movement started by two Guardian writers: Positive Money. Sounds like the sort of whacky Social Credit thing that times of economic unrest often throw up. Anyone been following this Positive Money phenomenon? Is it linked to Jazzzz-style belief in the power of banking?




There's a debate between them and the SP (or SPGB?) this evening, see this thread in the demos forum: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/taking-on-the-currency-cranks.298072/

I have a feeling that the conspiraloons may turn up en masse as this seems to be their latest playpen (along with Occupy/Assange) -  a bit like they did with 7/7 meetings.


----------



## rekil (Sep 8, 2012)




----------



## treelover (Sep 8, 2012)

Random said:


> One of my friends is a Guardian Believer and he's on about this movement started by two Guardian writers: Positive Money. Sounds like the sort of whacky Social Credit thing that times of economic unrest often throw up. Anyone been following this Positive Money phenomenon? Is it linked to Jazzzz-style belief in the power of banking?


 

Our local Green Party has a speaker from them doing a talk at its monthly meeting..


----------



## treelover (Sep 8, 2012)

copliker said:


> View attachment 22841


 

I wonder if this is a co-incidence as the Guardian expands its US operations , wouldn't have been a cheap holiday either, he husband is Andrew Marr, not short of a few bob, unlikely she saw the poverty in some of these areas..

no mention of Detroit, of educated people doing three jobs yet living in their cars, no mention of the brutal response to 1930's Ford/Steel strikes, or of Upton Sinclairs 'The Jungle, of America's 'gifts' to the world:, Taylorism, Behaviourism, the conveyor belt, marketing, etc..


----------



## rekil (Sep 8, 2012)

treelover said:


> I wonder if this is a co-incidence as the Guardian expands its US operations , wouldn't have been a cheap holiday either, he husband is Andrew Marr, not short of a few bob, unlikely she saw the poverty in some of these areas..


I was thinking the same. I guessed what it would be about and I was mostly right, wide open spaces, michelle obama, all the can do and chutzpah and a bit of hand wringing for balance.


----------



## treelover (Sep 8, 2012)

> Sinclair's account of workers falling into rendering tanks and being ground, along with animal parts, into "Durham's Pure Leaf Lard", gripped public attention. The morbidity of the working conditions, as well as the exploitation of children and women alike that Sinclair exposed showed the corruption taking place inside the meat packing factories.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle


----------



## treelover (Sep 8, 2012)

> Of course it does. Of course you love America. All top British journalists do because it is on their flight path. It represents the next step in their career. From the Guardian to the NYT or the Washington ost. And that also explains why all reporting on the USA by British journalists is careful not to offend US interests because US journalists might need their green cards one day when they make it to the metropolis, not backwoodsy old London, but New York or Washington. Just ask Jonathan Freedland.


 
great post on CIF


----------



## cesare (Sep 8, 2012)

copliker said:


> View attachment 22841



She looks as though someone's let off a stink bomb under her nose.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 8, 2012)

copliker said:


>


 
Hahahaaha. Shameless.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 8, 2012)

treelover said:


> husband is Andrew Marr


 
I thought she was married to Will Self?


----------



## co-op (Sep 8, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I thought she was married to Will Self?


 
That's right. I lived on the same road as them in Stockwell for a few years. Never saw her though.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 8, 2012)

Yes - the two 'diehard leftys'  (his words) who sent their kid to private school.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2012)

bloody hell


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2012)

how is deborah orr a leftie? all i've seen her write is materialistic shite and bad sex columns (assuming im thinking of the same person)


----------



## belboid (Sep 8, 2012)

how was Self?  An open and proud Lib-Dem in 2010.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2012)

orrs sex column in the indie would strike celibacy into the heart of the most randy priest


----------



## co-op (Sep 8, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Yes - the two 'diehard leftys' (his words) who sent their kid to private school.


 
Heh. Never knew that. I used to look out of my bedroom window and see all the kids on the posh side in their weird uniforms being driven off to school, usually at about 7am but the Orr/Self house was a bit further down the road.

But Stockwell Park is about a 5 minute walk away. A friend of mine used to teach there in the 80s and he found it pretty unruly but last Ofsted says



> 'This is an excellent school, where parents rightly feel that it gives their children every chance of succeeding in life. It is a purposeful place where everyone's right to work and learn is respected.'


 
and



> Achievement in literacy and numeracy is outstanding


 
Which I know because friends of mine have their children there and they're all pretty proud of the place and how it's turned around - it's a school with below average abilities at entry and results that are above average at end of KS4.

Wonder how Orr/Self sold that decision to themselves?


----------



## cesare (Sep 8, 2012)

belboid said:


> how was Self?  An open and proud Lib-Dem in 2010.




Fuck him. Fuck him in the ear along with Billy Bragg.


----------



## Mr Blob (Sep 8, 2012)

sod the Guardian- only read it online...........wouldn't pay quid to buy it


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 9, 2012)

cesare said:


> Fuck him. Fuck him in the ear along with Billy Bragg.


 
Bit too harsh on Billy Bragg there, IMO.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Bit too harsh on Billy Bragg there, IMO.


Why?

Oh, because you're replying without the full facts - as normal nowadays william.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 9, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> how is deborah orr a leftie? all i've seen her write is materialistic shite and bad sex columns (assuming im thinking of the same person)


 
She's *entirely* unlefty, and has never shown any signs of any leftieness, certainly not since she was presented with a Guardian column (probably not at the Indie before that, either).

LibDem arselicker. That's her.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 9, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why?
> 
> Oh, because you're replying without the full facts - as normal nowadays william.


 
I only meant in comparison to the other two really. And I did say 'bit''.

Thanks for the compliment incidentally


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I only meant in comparison to the other two really.
> 
> Thanks for the compliment incidentally


Cheers


----------



## cesare (Sep 9, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Bit too harsh on Billy Bragg there, IMO.



He's thrown his lot in with the LibDems ffs.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 9, 2012)

Since the 2010 election?


----------



## cesare (Sep 9, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Since the 2010 election?



Joined Occupy and probably wears a fucking V mask.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Since the 2010 election?


Since well before. (I think i  can do you 2005 as well).


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 9, 2012)

Yeah I do know about that -- he was advocating tactical voting mainly yes?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 9, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Yeah I do know about that -- he was advocating tactical voting mainly yes?


that's lib dems for you


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 9, 2012)

I know!


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 9, 2012)

Never liked Self - His books aren't all that, he fuckin repeats himself a _lot_, count how many times (in any of his novels) that he uses the words "epicine" or "etoliated", I'll say with a fair degree of confidence it'll be more frequently than Shaun Hutson employs the word "fusty" in his (in retrospect quite prescient) effort "Erebus". And that's saying something.

Plus his whole drug addiction shtick doesn't sit right with me. Snobby Oxbridge twat - dip yer toe in the shark infested custard but always know you've got a way out. I care neither a feather nor a fig that his leather car coat's made from half a horse. The prick.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Never liked Self - His books aren't all that, he fuckin repeats himself a _lot_, count how many times (in any of his novels) that he uses the words "epicine" or "etoliated", I'll say with a fair degree of confidence it'll be more frequently than Shaun Hutson employs the word "fusty" in his (in retrospect quite prescient) effort "Erebus". And that's saying something.
> 
> Plus his whole drug addiction shtick doesn't sit right with me. Snobby Oxbridge twat - dip yer toe in the shark infested custard but always know you've got a way out. I care neither a feather nor a fig that his leather car coat's made from half a horse. The prick.


Why don't you lot talk out of your mouth rather than your nose?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 10, 2012)

Coz it's Man -Chist _Oh.. you know it makes sense.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2012)

according to the guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/13/falkland-islands-census-british-identity) the falkland islands (area: 12,170km2) is "about the size of Northern Ireland or the US state of Connecticut". only connecticutt (they couldn't manage to spell it right in the article) has an area of 14,360 km2 and 'northern ireland' has an area of 13,840km2. connecticutt is 18% larger than the falklands, and 'northern ireland' 13.7% larger.

it's sloppy shit like this which reinforces the other reasons elaborated above for this 'newspaper' slowly sliding round the u-bend of history.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 14, 2012)

Truly vile. 


> If your household income is £1m a year, you're well-off, right? And if it's £17,000, you must be hard up? Not necessarily…


Half of those people, plus the journalist, need killing.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 14, 2012)

> One client said to her maid, 'Don't you look at me. You look down when I talk to you.'


----------



## weepiper (Sep 14, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Truly vile.
> 
> Half of those people, plus the journalist, need killing.


 
Just came here to post that. Some truly _delightful_ examples of the poor squeezed 'middle' there.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2012)

I don't see that that is a "guardian going down the pan" article - the fact that there fucking awful people in it doesn't make it that. They're not being lauded.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 19, 2012)

Still sticking it's tongue up the lib dems ring piece


> but he believes there is another group of people that will find his honesty refreshing. Clegg is insistent that he will take his party into the next election and believes this move will help clear the path.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 19, 2012)

So, where is the Guardian apology?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 19, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't see that that is a "guardian going down the pan" article - the fact that there fucking awful people in it doesn't make it that. They're not being lauded.


 
That on that Saturday do you feel rich article from ten days pr so ago..

But apols from them *definitely* needed, no quarrels, for their _seriously_ embarrassing Lib Dem arselicking/spindoctoring.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> That on that Saturday do you feel rich article from ten days pr so ago..
> 
> But apols from them *definitely* needed, no quarrels, for their _seriously_ embarrassing Lib Dem arselicking/spindoctoring.


I did write that comment last Friday you know, before more recent spin took place.

Actually I think I was wrong, now, given that the article is implicitly saying "this is a valid subset of opinion in the UK".


----------



## rekil (Sep 20, 2012)

Martin Rowson said:
			
		

> still waiting to hear from @commentisfree why I was modded out of thread discussing one of my own cartoons...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2012)

Is the editors daughter still running that dept under another name?


----------



## rekil (Sep 20, 2012)

Dunno, shall i ask? He's pretty fucked off about it.



> If @commentisfree tells me why I was modded from my own thread..or any of you come up with convincing conspiracy theory, I'll be sure to pass it one when I get back...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2012)

You'll end up in the slammer with Rowson.


----------



## shagnasty (Sep 20, 2012)

When you realise that Martin Rowson and Steve Bells cartoons pull no punches not like the pussy footing done by the rest of the staff


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 20, 2012)

Just can't help themselves


> Nick Clegg's mocked, reviled and admired mea culpa


Admired? By who apart from pricks like you.


----------



## shagnasty (Sep 21, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Just can't help themselves
> 
> Admired? By who apart from pricks like you.


Wintour is a real wanker


----------



## treelover (Sep 21, 2012)

Nesrine Malik applauding Clegg for apologising on Sky Paper review...


----------



## jakethesnake (Sep 21, 2012)

shagnasty said:


> When you realise that Martin Rowson and Steve Bells cartoons pull no punches not like the pussy footing done by the rest of the staff


Easily the best thing about the paper, especially Steve Bell.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Just can't help themselves
> 
> Admired? By who apart from pricks like you.


The penny will never drop with people like him - and he's _paid_ for his political expertise. How surprising to read that he is  westminister and oxbridge like Clegg.


----------



## rekil (Sep 21, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You'll end up in the slammer with Rowson.


Libyanka.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 24, 2012)

Michael White dilligently spoons out the governments  spin on pleb-gate -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/sep/24/andrew-mitchell-police-row-move-along

A blatant put up job - Im sure they gave him plenty of juicy - but inconequential gossip in return.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2012)

just look at the caption on the photo in this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/28/irish-gun-thefts-ulster-sniper-campaign

apparently lance bombardier stephen restorick was the last army casualty in the six counties. he was shot in 1997. i'm sure we all recall the deaths of patrick azimkar and mark quinsey, shot by the real ira in 2010. indeed, the guardian even reported their deaths: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/07/massareene-barracks-trial-northern-ireland


----------



## revol68 (Sep 29, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> just look at the caption on the photo in this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/28/irish-gun-thefts-ulster-sniper-campaign
> 
> apparently lance bombardier stephen restorick was the last army casualty in the six counties. he was shot in 1997. i'm sure we all recall the deaths of patrick azimkar and mark quinsey, shot by the real ira in 2010. indeed, the guardian even reported their deaths: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/07/massareene-barracks-trial-northern-ireland


 
maybe they have edited the article since but there is no mention of him being the last military casualty now and the reason they don't refer to the Real IRA shootings is cause the article is about sniper rifles.

Edit: checking the article history it appears it has been edited since your post.

does make you wonder what clowns they have working there, I mean you don't need to actually know anything to avoid this, just make use of google ffs.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm sure Simon Hoggart used to be mildly amusing, now he's a totally obnoxious cunt. Don't read the patronizing bit on the Ukulele orchestra audiance

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/sep/29/nick-clegg-angharad-rees

Many many years ago I was accosted by a man in a Chelsea petrol station and harangued for buying the Guardian "which shouldn't be allowed outside Junior Common Rooms". Interesting chap actually, he had been Stella Gibbons' (Cold Comfoft Farm) companion in her declining years (a Guardian gift subscription nearly killer her -used phrases like "met up with").

Am I getting old and turning into that guy, or is it demonstrable much worse?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 29, 2012)

One need look no further than Hoggart's byline picture to get the measure of the man.


----------



## gosub (Sep 30, 2012)

Guardian's cartoon yesterday.    Surely announcing now a spending review if you get into power, means you hope to get to and through the election being as vague as possible about what you will do.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 30, 2012)

They deleted my post when I replied to an article on John Terry as not meeting their community standards. Comment is not as free as we thought


----------



## cesare (Sep 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> They deleted my post when I replied to an article on John Terry as not meeting their community standards. Comment is not as free as we thought


Maybe they thought it was graffiti, like the old "George Davis Is Innocent" everywhere.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 30, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> One need look no further than Hoggart's byline picture to get the measure of the man.


 
He's certainly not his father's son.


----------



## sihhi (Oct 2, 2012)

The culture adverts tell all.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 2, 2012)

Don't bother advertising at philistine chav scum, advertise here to our "upmarket" arts loving readers


----------



## treelover (Oct 10, 2012)

Guardian editorial yesterday was remarkably sympathetic to Cameron and the Tories yesterday, so much so that it could have been written by Glover,

he is not back, is he?


----------



## elbows (Oct 10, 2012)

At present it appears they have a photograph of the wrong member of Pussy Riot, compared to other sources this is not the one that has been released.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/oct/10/pussy-riot-member-freed-moscow?newsfeed=true


----------



## elbows (Oct 10, 2012)

elbows said:


> At present it appears they have a photograph of the wrong member of Pussy Riot, compared to other sources this is not the one that has been released.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/oct/10/pussy-riot-member-freed-moscow?newsfeed=true


 
They just fixed it.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 10, 2012)

treelover said:


> Guardian editorial yesterday was remarkably sympathetic to Cameron and the Tories yesterday, so much so that it could have been written by Glover,
> 
> he is not back, is he?


It is possible that the political journalists on board have forgotten how the names of the parties relate to their original political stances of old with all of the middle-England chasing acting as a disguise for neo-liberal economics. All the parties have very similar policies and it would be easy for them to be confused by an inattentive observer - such as a modern journalist. Also the Guardian had a tendency to be sympathetic to the LibDems and with them being in the Coalition the Guardian probably supports the party that it is sharing with, without really remembering who they were.

Yes, you may be thinking that if I were to look in the mirror I would see a yellowish tinge to my face. That is true.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 10, 2012)

gosub said:


> Guardian's cartoon yesterday. Surely announcing now a spending review if you get into power, means you hope to get to and through the election being as vague as possible about what you will do.


 
That was in last Sunday's Observer. Makes a vagueish level of difference. Not disagreeing with your general point all the same ...


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 17, 2012)

According to this, the Gruniaud's publishers are seriously considering axing the print version and moving over completely to the web:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...eriously-discussing-end-to-print-edition.html

OK, it's the Telegraph, but even so . . .


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 17, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> According to this, the Gruniaud's publishers are seriously considering axing the print version and moving over completely to the web:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...eriously-discussing-end-to-print-edition.html
> 
> OK, it's the Telegraph, but even so . . .


 
Smells like shit stirring.

Still anything that isolates Rusbridger would be a "good" thing for the paper...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 17, 2012)

From what I know from bitter and biased competitors, this sounds absolutely nonsensical.

For a start, Rusbridger is in complete control of both the Scott Trust and GNM. Forgan and the other timeservers on the Trust do more or less whatever Rusbridger suggests. At a GNM level, there is no-one left who is capable of arguing with the editor. Miller is a finance director, elevated above his station and a determined swiller of the Rusbridger kool-aid. Otherwise, the only senior managers are Sheila Fitzsimons, formerly wet-nurse to Rusbridger's brats, and a defrocked ITV brand manager, David Pemsel, who leapt the GNM greasy pole from a consultancy gig by agreeing fervently with Rusbridger at every turn. Tim Brooks was shown the dooor for having a few opinions of his own; Adam Freeman, a pleasant and unthreatening ad salesman, was ousted for not having the mental capacity to cheerlead for Rusbridger's economic doublethink with quite enough gusto.

And the "digital first" strategy is absolutely Rusbridger's. Anyone with any business sense at all in the Guardian and other national dailies is terrified of abandoning print. A paper reader is worth around £100 a year in copy sales and ad revenue; a digital consumer perhaps £5. In the long term, the national general news print daily is fucked, but in the short term it makes absolutely no sense at all to accelerate the push towards digital. However, Rusbridger has an eerie belief in the virtue of the new, and the fall-back models for journalism on the cheap genuinely excite him. He is a very Edwardian progressive: there is no distinction for him between what will come and what should come.

His lack of interest in the print product enables the cash-cow strategy of cutting pagination while shoving up prices. But without these print revenues, the headcount-heavy organisation would go tits up with alarming speed. A sudden shift to the digital business model, moreover, would entail a huge and unwinnable fight with the NUJ, which would rather see the organisation fold than concede an inch on involuntary redundancies.

Lastly, it's simply not true that there's a tension about whether the Scott Trust could allow a shift to digital-only. It's been made very clear that the mission of keeping the Guardian going "as heretofore" is platform-neutral. So whoever wrote the piece from which the Telegraph sourced this has been very, very badly briefed.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ah yes, the sinister Al-Rubbisha and his band of suicidal fanatics, to quote Private Eye.

Thanks for that.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 17, 2012)

Excellently informative/critical post Maurice -- genuine thanks for that, learnt a fair bit more about stuff I had only vague awareness of the details of, really.

Guess as a continuing print reader I'm still the 'cash'-cow then... 

Nice to have a somewhat *objective *analysis on this thread for a change


----------



## ska invita (Oct 18, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> A paper reader is worth around £100 a year in copy sales and ad revenue; a digital consumer perhaps £5.


 
based on those figures it makes sense to drop print - they have millions of online readers and not many paper buyers. 
the crunch of the maths would be how much would they save by not having to print, set and distribute etc.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 18, 2012)

ska invita said:


> based on those figures it makes sense to drop print - they have millions of online readers and not many paper buyers.
> the crunch of the maths would be how much would they save by not having to print, set and distribute etc.


 
Yeah, that's net rather than gross and so a misleading way for me to put it. Sorry, hasty typing. Very broadly speaking, copy sales pays for paper, print and distribution so it's revenue neutral. Some publishers make money on copy sales, more prefer to lose it to buy readers, but the profit or loss isn't huge. Advertising, very crudely, pays for staff and editorial overhead, so the £100 per year (and of course it's a bit more for broadsheets) is basically ad revenue. That leaves out affiliate stuff like wine clubs and I suppose recruitment as well, which is a factor for broadsheets, but again there's a massive premium for print recruitment advertising over digital.

So let's say that the Grauniad has 200k loyal paper purchasers so 400k paper readers. That's £40m in display advertising, let's call it £50m because they are broadsheet readers and add another £30m for recruitment, supplements, affiliates, dating sites and so on. £80m. On that basis, even assuming that a digital broadsheet reader is worth £10, including recruitment advertising (which of course is declining, because it's all public sector at the Guardian, and generally speaking is moving to cost-per-hire anyway) they'd need to have 8m people in the UK (Sepps aren't monetisable) spending a significant amount of time daily on their website. I'd be amazed if it's more than 800k.

These are entirely made up numbers so quite probably very wrong, but they aren't going to be wrong by an order of magnitude, and that's the financial difference that an immediate shift to digital would have to make up.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 18, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> So let's say that the Grauniad has 200k loyal paper purchasers so 400k paper readers. That's £40m in display advertising, let's call it £50m because they are broadsheet readers and add another £30m for recruitment, supplements, affiliates, dating sites and so on. £80m. On that basis, even assuming that a digital broadsheet reader is worth £10, including recruitment advertising (which of course is declining, because it's all public sector at the Guardian, and generally speaking is moving to cost-per-hire anyway) they'd need to have 8m people in the UK (Sepps aren't monetisable) spending a significant amount of time daily on their website. I'd be amazed if it's more than 800k.
> 
> These are entirely made up numbers so quite probably very wrong, but they aren't going to be wrong by an order of magnitude, and that's the financial difference that an immediate shift to digital would have to make up.


...but crucially there are still the production cost savings to factor in there. ...and I think a website would have slightly less daily content produced by paid journalist than a paper (which you want to be a bit fat if you're paying for it), and can have plenty of Comment is Free - free being the operative word. And supposedly their site gets about 4 million unique visits a day (lots from the US).

I don't doubt your figures and general point, but I'm also a lot less suspicious of that Telegraph piece. Perhaps they can make sufficient savings by going digital-only that will at least improve on the 44 million loss a year of present? The logical conclusion of Digital First is Digital Only.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 18, 2012)

And you would be right if it was easy to shift editorial staffing levels at the drop of a hat. It's not, especially for a paper whose core audience would automatically take the side of the intransigent and cossetted NUJ chapel.

There's also, I suspect, a big difference between a "unique visit" and a reader; the uniqueness is overstated.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 18, 2012)

Only ever buy the Guardian on a Saturday now. Weekdays I just look online.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 18, 2012)

I haven't bought a paper copy for years, there's no point when they give it all away for free online.  Why pay to read yesterday's news and opinions when the website is constantly updated?


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 18, 2012)

Surely the entire reason for the current push into the US is a Mail-esque web-traffic-focused strategy? Fuelled by rentamob Twitter-friendly 'comment-is-free-but-facts-cost-money(buy the FT)' controversy-generating churnalism.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 18, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> Surely the entire reason for the current push into the US is a Mail-esque web-traffic-focused strategy? Fuelled by rentamob Twitter-friendly 'comment-is-free-but-facts-cost-money(buy the FT)' controversy-generating churnalism.


 
Yup, absolutely - but there's no evidence that ad agencies in the US want to pay a premium for progressives. DM churnalism is wonderfully cheap.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 18, 2012)

Yeah, that is the fatal flaw in the *genius* plan innit. 
Meanwhile it's quite amusing watching them trying to crowbar a US angle into every bit of lifestyle 'journalism' and commentary-is-free(PLEASE-RT) that they produce.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 18, 2012)

I note that Newsweek is going digital-only btw.


----------



## gosub (Oct 18, 2012)

got a new website testing

http://beta.guardian.co.uk/


----------



## ska invita (Oct 18, 2012)

gosub said:


> got a new website testing
> 
> http://beta.guardian.co.uk/


looks like something for phones maybe?


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2012)

ska invita said:


> looks like something for phones maybe?


ipad, I'd guess - its essentially the same as their mobile site with added photos


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2012)

u75 knows about some of the issues mentioned in this article, but oh the language used in places. Maybe if she came to u75 for a while things would be seen in a new perspective and her comments section will seem like utopia in comparison!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/18/online-bullying-ugly-sport-liberal-commenters




> I'm the Seattle-based publisher of a network of lifestyle websites read by roughly one million people each month. Almost all of our readers are women, most of them are educated and many of them are quite politically liberal. Because of this large, diverse and progressive readership, we deal with community issues that perhaps wouldn't be such a problem on smaller sites. And lately, I've started to notice a disturbing trend.
> Over the past couple of years, I've watched the rise of a new form of online performance art, where liberal internet commenters make public sport of flagging potentially problematic language as insensitive, and gleefully calling out authors as needing to "check their privilege" (admit their privileged position within society and its associated benefits).





> It's challenging for me because the values motivating these complaints are completely in line with both my personal politics and my professional passion for catering to niche markets and semi-marginalised cultures (I say "semi-marginalised" because let's get real here: readers of my websites are more likely to be a 20-something white plus-size roller derby player or an introverted 30-something information sciences grad student – neither of whom who are marginalised in the same way as, say, a gay Cambodian amputee immigrant living in Mexico City).





> My priorities with online discourse are dialogue and respect. In my little corner of the online world, I keep my focus on constructive critique and articulate, compassionate communication. Shouting down people who disagree with you (even if I agree with your argument) simply doesn't feel productive or helpful. If I had a dollar for every time we have to delete a blog comment that I personally agreed with because it was stated as an attack … I could shift my whole business model. Being an asshole: it's not just for the GOD HATES FAGS people any more.


 


> • Am I living my values with this exchange? If my goal is tolerance and sensitivity, am I embodying both those values in this conversation?


 
Smell my values. Fondle my privilege.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 18, 2012)

((((gay Cambodian amputee immigrant living in Mexico City))))


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 18, 2012)

Excellent discussion going on ... 

I know fuck all about these details myself, but several people above do, so


----------



## ska invita (Oct 19, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> I note that Newsweek is going digital-only btw.



Wall Street Journal on Thursday, she confirmed the move had been in the works for some time. She said: "We have been exploring it since June in a very aggressive way, because all the industry trends have told us that it was only a question of when, not if…. It became increasingly important to us to embrace our future rather than just keep talking about it."

Some commentators have been critical of Brown's stewardship of the magazine. "Brown's Newsweek has been a bit of a disaster, really, and it started to truly fall apart last fall, amid reports of internal tumult at the magazine," wrote Tom McGeveran at Capital New York.

But the Gawker founder Nick Denton placed the blame on Diller. You have to go back to Talk to find Tina Brown's last failure. Since then, Diller has acquired a slew of companies and mismanaged them into irrelevance. Match.com, Ask Jeeves, the list goes on. Now watch him manage the decline of About.com," he wrote.

Felix Salmon, the financial blogger for Reuters, doubted the new digital Newsweek would work. "The chances that Newsweek will succeed as a digital-only subscription-based publication are exactly zero ... There's no demand for a digital Newsweek, and there's no reason, either, to carve off some chunk of the NewsBeast newsroom, call it Newsweek, and put its journalism onto a platform where almost nobody is going to read it."
Newsweek ABCs – average total paid and verified circulation 

2011: 1,524,989 (including digital editions for the first time)

2010: 1,578,691

2009: 2,316,590

2008: 2,720,034

2007: 3,124,059

2006: 3,130,600


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2012)

Oh wow:

Across the barricades: love over the class divide

Example #1 of working class:



> Emily Wyndham married her husband 11 years ago this week. They met at Oxford University. "I'd describe my parents as working class made good," she says. "My father had to leave school at 16 for financial reasons, but he became a businessman, they built a hotel. Not anywhere nice – it was in a crap industrial coastal town they forgot to close down. In doing so, they made quite a lot of money – enough to send us to private school – so we were the first generation of our family to go to university.


 
Example #2: armed robber.

Next up:

a) "Some names have been changed."

b) All the w/c blokes in the article are called Steve.

That in itself is so fucking revealing.

And one more - what's that in Steve's pocket?:


----------



## sihhi (Oct 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Oh wow:
> 
> Across the barricades: love over the class divide
> 
> ...


 

The second half of that article is based on the Channel 4 docusoap hero, Daily Mail journalist, second issue of the 12th Marquess of Queensbury,  Lady Alice Douglas. 'Middle-class' in Guardian world means 'landowner aristocracy' that's ruining country churches for fun and profit.

I particularly like the only sentence about her first husband: "Her first husband was a Turkish refugee, and that marriage failed because he couldn't stand living in England." The only sentence about him. 'ethnic minority' =/= 'working-class'.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Example #1 of working class:


 
A little disingenuous; it's a story of lower-middle/gentry miscegenation rather than of working/middle.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2012)

> a crap industrial coastal town they forgot to close down


 
My mind is going, I can feel it. Perhaps I shall spend the weekend meditating on this phrase whilst rubbing muesli onto my nipples. Maybe that would just be escapism because they forgot to close down my town too, and now there are murmurings that the undead may one day piss on the picnic of guardian readers.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2012/oct/20/profile-theresa-may?intcmp=239

_It's been a tough week for the Tories – but one person who has shone is the home secretary, thwarting a US extradition bid. She's built a reputation for steely resolve. Will this very private woman now leave her fellow MPs standing?_


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 21, 2012)

In the Observer, that one? Fairly sure that was the same article that I saw, but couldn't induce myself to read, in today's paper copy.

Fairly sure it was. Nauseating, agreed.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

Is it just me or is this piece from Michael White rather mental?


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Is it just me or is this piece from Michael White rather mental?


Further reeking of "we're all in this together" and "society is to blame".


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

Thinking more of the leaping from one point to another with no obvious connection all the while lashing out at everyone else and bigging himself up for not writing about Savile and the Guardian for whatever the fuck he's hinting at they did or didn't do - it reads like some pissed bloke mumbling into a tape-recorder at 4am about the pope and hitler. _And another thing..._


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Thinking more of the leaping from one point to another with no obvious connection all the while lashing out at everyone else and bigging himself up for not writing about Savile and the Guardian for whatever the fuck he's hinting at they did or didn't do - it reads like some pissed bloke mumbling into a tape-recorder at 4am about the pope and hitler. _And another thing..._


That's probably exactly what it was ... injunctions go out, editorial space to fill, got to write something, stream of consciousness etc


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

He's such a smug knob isn't he? He's a terrible writer with limited knowledge or insight yet got the chief political editor job. He's just a walking contact-book i reckon. Probably a mason too. He has a mason face.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

he's forever lurking around the coffee places in Parliament


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## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

Yes, we all _know_ you go to Parliament. You don't need to keep highlighting it!

That's what i mean though, you can be an ill-informed gobshite but if you have the contacts this can make it appear as if you have some inside track.


----------



## elbows (Oct 24, 2012)

Simon Jenkins is on his usual form as well. Takes a few reasonable points and then starts going off on one and pushing the points into the land of wibble.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/23/jimmy-savile-witch-hunt-paranoia


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

elbows said:


> Simon Jenkins is on his usual form as well. Takes a few reasonable points and then starts going off on one and pushing the points into the land of wibble.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/23/jimmy-savile-witch-hunt-paranoia


I liked the way he attempted to remove any blame from Entwistle on the grounds of _he's so shit he couldn't be expected to not be shit_. (If this is the case then it's pretty damning for the BBC that he rose to head of vision of the BBC i.e boss of all broadcasts - or was that just another 'honest mistake' Simon?). And yes, i think he was wandering into the same ranty-tape-recorder-territory as White in the last 1/3.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, we all _know_ you go to Parliament. You don't need to keep highlighting it!
> 
> That's what i mean though, you can be an ill-informed gobshite but if you have the contacts this can make it appear as if you have some inside track.


----------



## sihhi (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I liked the way he attempted to remove any blame from Entwistle on the grounds of _he's so shit he couldn't be expected to not be shit_. (If this is the case then it's pretty damning for the BBC that he rose to head of vision of the BBC i.e boss of all broadcasts - or was that just another 'honest mistake' Simon?). And yes, i think he was wandering into the same ranty-tape-recorder-territory as White in the last 1/3.


 
I like the way he created another -ariat word.



> We now have a new form of accountability, to an “inquiriat”, a cackle of inquisitors and lawyers jumping to the bidding of public opinion, ﬂapping round every executive’s head and piling accusation on every error. This can only lead to ever more defensive behaviour in every sphere of public life. It is the paranoia of the modern state. Every document is “open”, every conversation “on the record” and your friend today is tomorrow the witness against you.


 
'Defend the Rights of Millionaire Executives to Squash Investigations that might Reveal them to be Heartless bastards!'

It's no suprise. The Guardian actively collaborates with heartless criminals all the time. Their sustainable business network has invited Archelor Mittal, the biggest steel firm in the world, eating up the Indian countryside and incinerating its workers in accidents in Kazakhstan, to explain sustainability:






An advert for some event, with tickets set aside for American Express card members first.


Several adverts for John Lewis, which stock Sodastream, the firm with plants in the occupied West Bank.


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> he's forever lurking around the coffee places in Parliament



How would you know this unless you were doing the same?


----------



## rekil (Oct 24, 2012)

More of a bimbler than a lurker perhaps.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> he's forever lurking around the coffee places in Parliament


 
I was in parliament the other day - didn't see you there though.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

chilango said:


> How would you know this unless you were doing the same?


that was the response I was expecting - you can't really avoid going through or past the main one from time to time.  But I don't just hang around waiting to "network" like the lobby hacks do.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I was in parliament the other day - didn't see you there though.


It's quite a big place - what were you there for?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> that was the response I was expecting - you can't really avoid going through or past the main one from time to time. But I don't just hang around waiting to "network" like the lobby hacks do.


I've manged to avoid it quite well. I imagine others also have found no difficulty in doing so.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> that was the response I was expecting - you can't really avoid going through or past the main one from time to time. But I don't just hang around waiting to "network" like the lobby hacks do.


Note well the _just._ He does _other things_ apart from hanging around waiting to "network"


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> that was the response I was expecting - you can't really avoid going through or past the main one from time to time. But I don't just hang around waiting to "network" like the lobby hacks do.


Have you got your own pass, or do you have to factor in time for temp passes on your visits?


----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I was in parliament the other day - didn't see you there though.


i saw him. he was sat in the coffee shop two tables over from michael white, nursing a cappuccino. alone.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> It's quite a big place - what were you there for?


 
a meeting in a committee room with Owen Jones, David Babb, and Laura Penny, and Rachel Reeves


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

_Lonely cappuchino._


----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2012)

i think you'll find he was simply aloof from the lobby scrum butch. that's all beneath him.


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## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

Cappuccino.


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

I've only been in Parliament twice. Thrown out once, threatened with being thrown out the other time.

Every other time I've tried to get into parliaments the riot police got in the way...


----------



## rekil (Oct 24, 2012)

chilango said:


> Cappuccino.


It's 'cappuchino' in hydra books. Mispellings are more authentic. Joe Elliot's idea.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

I went with school and was forced to shake Jonathan Sayeed's horrible sweaty hand.


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

copliker said:


> It's 'cappuchino' in hydra books. Mispellings are more authentic. Joe Elliot's idea.



I bet they spell it right in Firebox.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Oct 24, 2012)

Who else here hangs out with important people?


----------



## rekil (Oct 24, 2012)

chilango said:


> I bet they spell it right in Firebox.


With a little fist over the 'i' as well.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Who else here hangs out with important people?


 
don't tell me you don't have occaisional pint with the store manager after work?


----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Who else here hangs out with important people?


i got blanked in the street by my MP last week.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Oct 24, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> don't tell me you don't have occaisional pint with the store manager after work?


 
He's a teetotal Mormon. And a cunt.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> He's a teetotal Mormon. And a cunt.


 
chargehand then?

Kendal's town crier?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

This week it's gambocinno.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> a meeting in a committee room with Owen Jones, David Babb, and Laura Penny, and Rachel Reeves


 
Haha - and I missed it!  I went to one with an MP and a trade unionist over from Syriza the other night.  It was shockingly advertised.  There were about 10 of us round a table, and 3 MPs.


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> Haha - and I missed it!  I went to one with an MP and a trade unionist over from Syriza the other night.  It was shockingly advertised.  There were about 10 of us round a table, and 3 MPs.



Easier to hegemonise though, no?


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

killer b said:


> i got blanked in the street by my MP last week.


Hendrick? Apparently he was a boxer in his youth.  Had any sense clubbed out of him anyway.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Oct 24, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> chargehand then?
> 
> Kendal's town crier?


 
I drink red wine at home and watch DVDs these days.


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> Hendrick? Apparently he was a boxer in his youth. Had any sense clubbed out of him anyway.


That's fighting talk, that is.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I drink red wine at home and watch DVDs these days.


 
joining the suburban middle classes


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Oct 24, 2012)

I put weight on easily these days.  Getting balder, too.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I put weight on easily these days. Getting balder, too.


 
The suburbariat


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Oct 24, 2012)

So, I was having a coffee in Parliament the other day...


----------



## killer b (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> Hendrick? Apparently he was a boxer in his youth.  Had any sense clubbed out of him anyway.


aye. In fact he was with ex south ribble mp David borrow, so I got blanked by two of the bastards at the same time. 

for a short moment, I got to feel just like you on the corridors of Westminster. The taste of power was exhilarating.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

the worst is when someone like Eric Pickles or IDS walk past.  It takes restraint not to give them a slap.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> the worst is when someone like Eric Pickles or IDS walk past. It takes restraint not to give them a slap.


You do get we're laughing at you right you dick?


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> the worst is when someone like Eric Pickles or IDS walk past.  It takes restraint not to give them a slap.



Does it?


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

like I care...?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> the worst is when someone like Eric Pickles or IDS walk past. It takes restraint not to give them a slap.


Pickles or IDS would both monster you btw


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

be fun finding out


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> the worst is when someone like Eric Pickles or IDS walk past. It takes restraint not to give them a slap.


I thought your new moral compass pointed to violent fantasies being as bad as sexist ones? Or didn't you really believe that when you wheeled it out?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> be fun finding out


 
Do it then_. _

_That's it. Sorry, guys, but I'm not going back in there today. Really don't want to be monstered by pickles or IDS just for soppy leftism._


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

Slapping Eric Pickles is not a violent fantasy, it is an entirely proportionate response


----------



## articul8 (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Do it then_. _
> 
> _That's it. Sorry, guys, but I'm not going back in there today. Really don't want to be monstered by pickles or IDS just for soppy leftism._


if it was a politically productive thing to do I would.  But it would be used to win sympathy for the fat fucker being assaulted in his workplace, and make the left look irrational and stupid.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2012)

he's a big man but he's out of shape


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

articul8 said:


> if it was a politically productive thing to do I would. But it would be used to win sympathy for the fat fucker being assaulted in his workplace, and make the left look irrational and stupid.


Note the taking on of the mantle of _the left for_ himself. Marvelous stuff.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

Paul Waugh:

Source tells me Guardian has tday started negotiations re compulsory redundos. Wanted 100 voluntary, only 30 so far. 90-day notice begins


----------



## sihhi (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Paul Waugh:
> 
> Source tells me Guardian has tday started negotiations re compulsory redundos. Wanted 100 voluntary, only 30 so far. 90-day notice begins


 
They want star-columnists like Polly, Seumas and Simon; a core of specialists in the major fields on permanent contracts and the rest a floating unionisable pool of freelancers, interns and work-experiencers. The stage is all there ready for an NUJ sellout.

Note the Guardian's needling examination of the NUJ: 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/may/28/nationalunionofjournalists-downturn


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Paul Waugh:
> 
> Source tells me Guardian has tday started negotiations re compulsory redundos. Wanted 100 voluntary, only 30 so far. 90-day notice begins


 
Good.

Death to The Guardian. Death to the BBC.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 24, 2012)

chilango said:


> Good.
> 
> Death to The Guardian. Death to the BBC.


Yes things would be so much better if we just had the Daily Mail and Sky TV.


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Yes things would be so much better if we just had the Daily Mail and Sky TV.



Death to them too!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Yes things would be so much better if we just had the Daily Mail and Sky TV.


Why wouldn't they be? Why wouldn't they be at least the same?


----------



## chilango (Oct 24, 2012)

Dave and the local free paper will do me.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

chilango said:


> Dave and the local free paper will do me.


It's all the other thickos you have to be think of though - who will lead them now?


----------



## shagnasty (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why wouldn't they be? Why wouldn't they be at least the same?


The labour party the bbc and the guardian.Our only hope of salvation !!! god help us !!!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

Savile, Toynbee and articul8 - god, think i'll jump in the river now, get it over with.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why wouldn't they be? Why wouldn't they be at least the same?


You may be right, but I don't want to find out by having the Guardian and BBC go. I still listen to Radio 4, the Guardian would be no great loss to me though, but public sector workers need job adverts.


----------



## elbows (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's all the other thickos you have to be think of though - who will lead them now?


 
Time to reenergise the handwringing over the feared 'decline of quality news', also known as the internet diluting the power of the opinion formers.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Savile, Toynbee and articul8 - god, think i'll jump in the river now, get it over with.


 
Not sure it's fair to lump him in with the other two self absorbed manipulative cunts...








Poor Jimmy


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 24, 2012)

sihhi said:


> Several adverts for John Lewis, which stock Sodastream, the firm with plants in the occupied West Bank.


 
Bastards. They also sell corduroy jackets of the type favoured by academics, many of whom may well fail to support boycotts of Israeli universities. There's clearly no end to the evil of John Lewis, and the Guardian, by accepting their ads for unrelated products, has shown itself to be utterly venal and complicit with evil. In fact, Guardian readers should themselves be boycotted, especially if their parents had a Sodastream in the 70s.


----------



## sihhi (Oct 24, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Guardian readers should themselves be boycotted, especially if their parents had a Sodastream in the 70s.


 
0/10 for effort, but nice idea

http://www.bdsmovement.net/2012/sodastream-new-store-uk-9439


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 24, 2012)

You're whining about the Guardian taking ads for an unrelated product because the giant retailer, which will have paid for half the space, also stocks product carried by every single other white goods channel, the manufacturer of which you dislike. Have you any idea how ridiculous you sound, or have you been orthodoxically left for so long that all sense has left you?


----------



## sihhi (Oct 24, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> You're whining about the Guardian taking ads for an unrelated product because the giant retailer, which will have paid for half the space, also stocks product carried by every single other white goods channel, the manufacturer of which you dislike. Have you any idea ho ridiculous you sound, or have you been orthodoxically left for so long that all sense has left you?


 
It's the hypocrisy of the matter of The Guardian encouraging targetted West Bank boycotts but opposing generalised anti-Israel boycotts (like the failed UCU attempt you mention), but then driving a train through any such targetted boycotting. It's different from Tesco, Sainsbury and others that stock general Israeli products.  

John Lewis Partnership also own Waitrose, that stock many other West Bank products like Beigel & Beigel, Dead Sea Magik. If you wanted to you'd read War on Want's Profiting from the Occupation, but you don't. Waitrose is by far the most intransigent on products that come from militarist "settlement" industrial zones (settlers as managers, Palestinians as labour force), with factories maintained by armed security personnel, aswell as IDF sentries.

By your criteria Barclay's UK didn't need any opposition because its adverts only advertised services in Britain. All British Airways did was fly people to Sun City, it didn't provide the bus transport to their hotels. 

There's other vile nonsense The Guardian advertises like insurance for landlords, the better to screw tenants, but you'd love making fun out of any objection to that too. So in general, though, how about you prove how normal you are to someone who cares.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 24, 2012)

sihhi said:


> They want star-columnists like Polly, Seumas and Simon; a core of specialists in the major fields on permanent contracts and the rest a floating unionisable pool of freelancers, interns and work-experiencers. The stage is all there ready for an NUJ sellout.
> 
> Note the Guardian's needling examination of the NUJ:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2012/may/28/nationalunionofjournalists-downturn



The Graun already has a whole lower tier of (mostly younger) staff on short term contracts without the comfy NUJ-negotiated contracts that the long term journos are on. The long term staff have shown not one iota of interest in showing solidarity with their younger precariat colleagues.  There is therefore not much love lost between the two groups. 
These compulsory redundancies have been on the horizon for a long time. I suspect the NUJ will find its room to manoeuvre limited by the fact that there exists a more poorly-paid, insecurely employed and ferociously ambitious lower tier of workers just waiting for their opportunity to do strike cover. Most never bothered joining the union because it's too expensive and it showed no interest in their plight anyway.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 24, 2012)

PS. Is there a thread on here about what's going on with the NUJ in general ATM? It's quite interesting (IMO).


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

I think the NUJ is in serious trouble anyway... Certainly it's print wing which is by far the biggest.


----------



## sihhi (Oct 24, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> The Graun already has a whole lower tier of (mostly younger) staff on short term contracts without the comfy NUJ-negotiated contracts that the long term journos are on. The long term staff have shown not one iota of interest in showing solidarity with their younger precariat colleagues. There is therefore not much love lost between the two groups.
> These compulsory redundancies have been on the horizon for a long time. I suspect the NUJ will find its room to manoeuvre limited by the fact that there exists a more poorly-paid, insecurely employed and ferociously ambitious lower tier of workers just waiting for their opportunity to do strike cover. Most never bothered joining the union because it's too expensive and it showed no interest in their plight anyway.


 
Can you explain more? Perhaps I gave the NUJ too much credit. I've only been once to a BBC NUJ picket, but there it was the rich people who weren't NUJ but freelancers or contract people. I think that's very different to the Guardian.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> PS. Is there a thread on here about what's going on with the NUJ in general ATM? It's quite interesting (IMO).


 
don't think so might be interesting to start one?


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 24, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> don't think so might be interesting to start one?



Sure thing  Do you want first dibs? I'm typing on my phone ATM


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 24, 2012)

sihhi said:


> Can you explain more? Perhaps I gave the NUJ too much credit. I've only been once to a BBC NUJ picket, but there it was the rich people who weren't NUJ but freelancers or contract people. I think that's very different to the Guardian.



I don't work there so my knowledge is limited to what I've heard.
The Graun - being the Graun - is all Hampstead luvvies and 'Of COURSE one must support the union' and so on, culturally. But in the last few years it's been taking on quite a few people (partic younger people) on different contracts: short term or time-limited, with the need to renegotiate from scratch when that contract ends, even in permanent roles. 
They tend to be on the new media side of things, which is how management tends to differentiate it.
The long term luvvies feel threatened by the introduction of younger, cheaper, online-oriented people and so they don't want to treat them as equals because they fear being supplanted.
Unfortunately management now wants to make compulsory redundancies and who will go? The expensive ones with the secure contracts.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

http://nujleft.org/2012/07/nuj-financial-crisis-an-alternative-recovery-plan/#comments

Here is a link to the former NUJ "left" blog.

This gives a bit of an overview of the financial crisis in the union from the pov of one faction.

Having said that the FT Chapel are level headed and decent sorts from what people say.


----------



## temper_tantrum (Oct 24, 2012)

Short version of NUJ situation (from my understanding of it):

- NEC leadership paid off a £109k long term bank loan using the union's last financial reserves;
- they also paid departing Gen Sec a £45k golden goodbye which it wasn't clear he was contractually entitled to;
- there are various murky questions over senior people's expenses, and the probity of the NUJ's record keeping in regard to this;
- faced with what the leadership allege is plummeting cashflow, the leadership decide to shut down the training dept and make people redundant; the redundancy payments require the union to take out a new loan of £104k;
- there's increasing dissent about all this from the ranks, a fair amount of concern; conference a short while ago was a very fractious affair from all accounts. 
- subs are going up, conference has been shifted to biannual. But a motion of censure was passed against those in charge of the financial management. Other than that, it's not really clear where things go from here.
- the NUJ, lacking the previous assets, is now at the mercy of its bank; it could and may be forced into a merger with another union if and when the bank loses patience and pulls the plug.

I would love to hear any more info or views, if anyone has any.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 24, 2012)

The only other thing I've heard is that Unite is sniffing around in the much the same way as with PCS and CWU, only not as openly - not that I think the NUJ would want to go in with them.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 25, 2012)

*Friday* night all sanctimonious about the leeds fan who attacked Chris Kirkland.

*Today:*









> Players attack fans, kids attack each other, and magical Martin Crowe


 
(Crowe has cancer btw, one of the most elegant batsmen i have ever seen at Somerset, but rock hard with it)


----------



## killer b (Oct 25, 2012)

for some reason this article has stuck in my head for 10 years now. can anyone tell if he's serious or not?



> When this newspaper recently published a list of the must-have albums for the modern over-30, even though it was clearly meant to be ironic, I was rather proud I could checklist at least 75% of them. True, I had only bought them to slip on to the system when we had a dinner party, in the hope a guest would notice and ask me what it was ("Oh, it's Dido," I would say. "You must know her. Collaborated with Eminem?"). But at least I knew what was going on.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 25, 2012)

leeds are scum to be fair


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 25, 2012)

You think a piece by the noted comedic writer Jim White may not be serious?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 25, 2012)

articul8 said:


> leeds are scum to be fair


Have you 'caused an aggro' recently?


----------



## killer b (Oct 25, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You think a piece by the noted comedic writer Jim White may not be serious?


i've never noted him before or since as anything tbh. that's a relief though.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 25, 2012)

killer b said:


> i've never noted him before or since as anything tbh. that's a relief though.


He's not funny - his humorous sports stuff on the radio was pretty terrible too.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 25, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Have you 'caused an aggro' recently?


that was a typo - should have read "any aggro"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 25, 2012)

articul8 said:


> the worst is when someone like Eric Pickles or IDS walk past. It takes restraint not to give them a slap on the back and a "hail fellow, well met!".


 
CFY


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 26, 2012)

Those pieces by Michael White and Simon Jenkins, linked to earlier up, were both *beyond* bizarre!


----------



## weepiper (Nov 3, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/02/affordable-everyday-red-wine



> It's easy enough to find a wine for a special occasion, but less so to find a reliable, inexpensive red for midweek drinking. When you do find one of those, it's worth buying in quantity because you always get a discount for an unsplit case.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Nov 3, 2012)

> one of the UK’s leading experts on food and drink matching


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 3, 2012)

Oh, for heaven's sake. What is there to object to here, Weepiper? If it was an article about affordable reds in the £50-£60 category then you might have a point, but a piece about £6 bottles that suggests they can be bought in bulk isn't really of note in a mass-market broadsheet.


----------



## weepiper (Nov 3, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What is there to object to here, Weepiper?


 
First world problem. The _hardship_ of not being able to find a bottle of wine cheap enough to buy by the case for your boring mundane _everyday_ drinking requirements.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 3, 2012)

It's a first world newspaper with a first world readership. Suggesting that its loyal fans enjoy mid-priced mid-week red isn't really evidence of metropolitan condescension to indigent Picts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 3, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's a first world newspaper with a first world readership. Suggesting that its loyal fans enjoy mid-priced mid-week red isn't really evidence of metropolitan condescension to indigent Picts.


 
Whereas your post is.


----------



## rekil (Nov 9, 2012)

The tribal grunts of left and right will not rescue us




			
				simon jenkins said:
			
		

> The right has no answer to the widening gulf between rich and poor. The left has no answer to the chronic need for welfare targeting and means testing. When the right makes changes to health policy, housing subsidies or deregulation, the left howls. When the left proposes higher property taxes or fewer prisoners, the right howls. These are mere tribal grunts.


 
Was he a LibDem backer?

E2a: What a stupid question. Nick Clegg's in the last ditch. Now is the time for him to come out fighting Linked earlier wasn't it.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 9, 2012)

Simon Jenkins really is a cunt


----------



## Mapped (Nov 10, 2012)

Raffles to go to Eton!



> All parents of 10-year-olds (yes, girls too) would be issued with a special 09- phone number. It would cost, say, £15 a call to defray lost fees, and the number could only be used once. Two hundred names would then be drawn from a top hat.


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/09/eton-raffle


----------



## weepiper (Nov 10, 2012)

I wouldn't send any of my kids to Eton if _they_ paid _me_ 30 grand a year.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 10, 2012)

N1 Buoy said:


> *Raffles* to go to Eton!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/09/eton-raffle


 

the gentleman thug


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 10, 2012)

copliker said:


> The tribal grunts of left and right will not rescue us
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a massive, massive cunt. Hopefully he'll get hit by a bus.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2012)

From their twitter:

Diwali drinks: sharbats, falooda... or champagne. What will you be drinking as part of your celebrations?


----------



## rekil (Nov 12, 2012)

All out of champagne here. How bout you cunts?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> What a massive, massive cunt. Hopefully he'll get hit by a bus.


Would you be at all surprised to learn that he was privately schooled and went to oxbridge?


----------



## elbows (Nov 12, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> From their twitter:
> 
> Diwali drinks: sharbats, falooda... or champagne. What will you be drinking as part of your celebrations?


 
The blood of a BBC Director General.


----------



## Santino (Nov 12, 2012)

Hello-hurrah, there's a price to pay for the Eton raffles, 
Hello-hurrah, I'd prefer the plague to the Eton raffles.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 17, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/nov/16/beat-taxman-keep-child-benefit

Now, I actually don't like means-tested benefits, but that aside, this article is nauseating.


----------



## teqniq (Nov 17, 2012)

haha £50,000+ ? I would like to earn over £20,000


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 18, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/aug/17/big-mess-trifle-recipe-lepard

I'm appalled that the subs let this go without an Eton Trifles headline or standfirst. Down the pan indeed.


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 19, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/nov/16/beat-taxman-keep-child-benefit
> 
> Now, I actually don't like means-tested benefits, but that aside, this article is nauseating.


 
Agreed -- revolting. No wonder the author stayed anonymous!

It's sparked off some lively debate underneath though. Plenty of negative criticisms from *some* contributors. This is representative of the more critical posts :



> Wealth protection advice that is utterly irrelevant to the 95% of households in the UK that can only dream of... sorry, _aspire to_ an income of £50k+.
> If I didn't already read The Guardian for free I'd cancel my subscription...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

Headline: Rotherham byelection brings relief for Labour as Ukip celebrates second place

Suggests a labour party under pressure finally able to break out. Reality =10+ lead for months, lead 6+ since the early days of the last election.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

> Curtice agreed that Ukip was now a major presence. "Ukip are probably hoping that they are now on a roll, certainly all the way through to the European elections in June 2014. Certainly, last night's performances were not a flash in the pan."


 
No he didn't. He said nothing of the sort. They used this twice today.


----------



## elbows (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Headline: Rotherham byelection brings relief for Labour as Ukip celebrates second place
> 
> Suggests a labour party under pressure finally able to break out. Reality =10+ lead for months, lead 6+ since the early days of the last election.


 
In this case I think they may just have been reflecting on circumstances particular to Rotherham in this by-election campaign. All these by-elections were pretty safe for Labour and therefore rather dull, and the press seized on several local messes to make the story seem vaguely interesting.


----------



## rekil (Dec 8, 2012)

Journalists unhappy with this Guardian editorial.

*Jack Shenker* ‏@*hackneylad*
Let me say once again, I totally disassociate myself from this@*Guardian* editorial on #*Egypt* - it's offensive & wrong:


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 9, 2012)

See also:

UK’s Observer adds “kill Jews” to Hamas leader Khaled Meshal’s Gaza speech


----------



## ymu (Dec 9, 2012)

They didn't "add" it, they mistranslated fight for kill, in a sentence where the word "fight" was mistranslated more than once.



> We don’t *kill Jews* because they are Jews. We *kill* the Zionists because they are conquerors and we will continue to *kill* anyone who takes our land and our holy places … We will free Jerusalem inch by inch, stone by stone.​​This however is a blatant mistranslation. What Meshal actually said is:
> 
> We do not *fight* the Jews because they are Jews. We *fight* the Zionist occupiers and aggressors. And we will *fight* anyone who tries to occupy our lands or attacks us. We *fight those who fight us*, who attack us, who besiege us, who attack our holy places and our land.​


The electronic intifada is often very good on this sort of stuff, but that headline is way OTT given what actually happened.


----------



## Random (Dec 13, 2012)

ymu said:


> The electronic intifada is often very good on this sort of stuff, but that headline is way OTT given what actually happened.


 Not really "way OTT" considering how bad a distortion this was.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 13, 2012)

Full headline is:



> UK’s Observer adds “kill Jews” to Hamas leader Khaled Meshal’s Gaza speech when he did not say it.


 
Seems fair enough to me.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 13, 2012)

_This is real:_



> *The 10 best films of 2012, No 2 – Ted*
> 
> 
> Seth MacFarlane's comedy about a pot-smoking teddy bear and his best friend John made us laugh until our stitches burst


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 13, 2012)

should have been best in view


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 13, 2012)

And Silver Linings Playbook at No. 4, which is reasonable but only a brain dead moron could ever claim that it's the fourth best film of the year.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/400-guardian-journalists-back-strike-ballot


----------



## bluestreak (Dec 16, 2012)

gosh, what will we do without them?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2012)

read the Morning Star


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 16, 2012)

Commenting on progressive issues online counts as scab journalism when Guardian journalists are bravely striking to defend their four week sabbaticals. Anyone posting on P&P should be ashamed of themselves.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2012)

bluestreak said:


> gosh, what will we do without them?


Help build the idea that their space is  ours. Come on.


----------



## articul8 (Dec 16, 2012)

they could keep loads of journos by firing Polly Toynbee, SImon Jenkins, Michael White, Deborah Orr...


----------



## bluestreak (Dec 16, 2012)

rob their houses whilst they're on a picket line?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2012)

articul8 said:


> they could keep loads of journos by firing Polly Toynbee, SImon Jenkins, Michael White*, Deborah Orr*...


 

but then how would you keep the wolf from the door


----------



## teqniq (Dec 16, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/400-guardian-journalists-back-strike-ballot


This is so Rusbridger can afford a better class of wig


----------



## articul8 (Dec 16, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> but then how would you keep the wolf from the door


there must be other ways - like thinking of Eric Pickles covered all-over in body chocolate  (aargh - my mind, nurse...!)


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Dec 16, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Commenting on progressive issues online counts as scab journalism when Guardian journalists are bravely striking to defend their four week sabbaticals. Anyone posting on P&P should be ashamed of themselves.


Commenting on progressive issues would not conflict with anything the Guardian does normally.  I see that the strike ballot is not really a strike ballot, it is an indicative ballot which could lead to an actual ballot if it is strongly carried. Given that the paper is losing money, the NUJ will doubtless negotiate away many jobs and conditions but hopefully will fight to get the best deal. The indicative ballot will reinforce them in their determination. I support the journalists as workers but not necessarily their political line as writers. The Guardian is neither of the left or progressive these days.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 16, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I support the journalists as workers


 
If sacking 100 of them saves £7m, then they are indeed downtrodden.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2012)

Join labour.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Dec 16, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> If sacking 100 of them saves £7m, then they are indeed downtrodden.


Not quite in the spirit of your post, but that £7m would not be saved on salaries alone but on office space, computers, and the infrastructure that supports 100 journalists. Also it will be an aspirational figure, and not necessarily immediate or even a true figure. Their accountants will work out ways of getting the savings sorted over a number of years to keep the shareholders happy.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 16, 2012)

The savings were from the editorial budget. That would normally be salaries and nothing else. Also, there are no shareholders, remember - the Scott Trust is answerable to a ghost, and Rusbridger is the man with the planchette.


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## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2012)

Declare your interests.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 16, 2012)

Really enjoyed reading the Quentin Blake feature by Jenny Uglow in Saturday's review. He was one of my heroes as artists when I was a lot younger  -- he's 80 tomorrow.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

i think you are on the wrong thread


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 16, 2012)

Oh I know


----------



## sihhi (Dec 16, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/400-guardian-journalists-back-strike-ballot



Strikebreaker radars on.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 17, 2012)

The reason for said redunacies is a so called five year plan.the ABCs are showing that month on month year on year ,papers are losing circulation ,so how long can papers like the indie and graun etc survive


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 17, 2012)

How can they monetise their extrememly succesful webpaper?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2012)

They need to take two hegemonies before breakfast.


----------



## sihhi (Dec 19, 2012)

*How do Muslims celebrate Christmas? Turkey, Top of the Pops and Shloer *

*Brilliant!*


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 19, 2012)

sihhi said:


> *How do Muslims celebrate Christmas? Turkey, Top of the Pops and Shloer *
> 
> *Brilliant!*


 
I think it's a nice article.


----------



## Ground Elder (Dec 19, 2012)

> What's the best way to drink coffee? Writers on their caffeine habits
> Eva Wiseman, Philip Hensher, Katie Puckrik and others on how they take their coffee


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 19, 2012)

now that's awful


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 19, 2012)

Ground Elder said:


> > What's the best way to drink coffee? Writers on their caffeine habits​Eva Wiseman, Philip Hensher, Katie Puckrik and others on how they take their coffee ​


 
Article doesn't even mention what sort of spoons they use. Swizz


----------



## Greebo (Dec 19, 2012)

sihhi said:


> *How do Muslims celebrate Christmas? Turkey, Top of the Pops and Shloer *
> 
> *Brilliant!*


Whatever next - "How Pagans celebrate Easter"?


----------



## scifisam (Dec 20, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Whatever next - "How Pagans celebrate Easter"?



A lot of muslims do celebrate christmas, though - the ones that live in the UK, anyway. Hell, most atheists celebrate Christmas too.


----------



## killer b (Dec 20, 2012)

this is true. my daughter is at a 95% muslim school, and they mainly get stuck in.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 20, 2012)

killer b said:


> this is true. my daughter is at a 95% muslim school, and they mainly get stuck in.


 
The local residents association round my where is holding a free Christmas dinner for all the pensioners and it was the chair of the local mosque who led the organisation of it alongside the local vicar.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2012)

these people get paid to write about how they drink their fucking coffee


----------



## articul8 (Dec 20, 2012)

it's not like there's any hardship out there to report on


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 20, 2012)

articul8 said:


> it's not like there's any hardship out there to report on


What's having to deal with baristas who can't tell the difference between a grande half-caf non-fat ristretto latte and a venti decaf skinny caramel macchiato if not a hardship?


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 20, 2012)

scifisam said:


> A lot of muslims do celebrate christmas, though - the ones that live in the UK, anyway. *Hell, most atheists celebrate Christmas too*.


 
Time Offmas!!!!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 20, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Time Offmas!!!!


 
Thank God our saviour was born on 25th December and not on 25th September.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 20, 2012)

That'd do as well , but yes, round about the shortest day of the year is idealmost ...

<Lazily waits for campaigners for *more* Bank Holidays, distributed evenly across the most Bank Holiday-devoid periods of the year, to get going!!!!  

Minimum of 4 extra BH's is my armchair demand .... we're in the *EU* after all  >


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 20, 2012)

When it came to Christmas, as atheists we always knew that feasting and getting presents was fun too, which justified in some way our enthusiasm for the season.

This year, I'm celebrating Christmas with my in-laws. They are Christian (they're old, you see).  I wasn't in the least anxious as to how it would be, but it turned out their Christmas is no different to the atheist version of it I've always known, except they watch the fucking Queen.  I go off and find batteries or something at that point.  It works out well for everyone.

In other news, I've just found out Jews don't have tails.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 20, 2012)

In  Guardian related non-news, there's a shedload of trivial gossipy shite in the G at the moment, even more than usual 

Along with some sensible-to-good coverage about stuff like the recent Hillsborough decision from the High Court.

And then far too much tedious shit about Andrew Mitchell and 'plebgate'.

And other shit that's a pain, and then other stuff -- sometimes quite well written even!! -- that's not bad at all.

Weird how 'quality' mainstream newspapapers are overall a bit mixed in quality isn't it ? 

(I can even find good articles in the Telegraph sometimes  )


----------



## sihhi (Dec 20, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> I wasn't in the least anxious as to how it would be, but it turned out their Christmas is no different to the atheist version of it I've always known, _except they watch the fucking Queen._ I go off and find batteries or something at that point. It works out well for everyone.


 
I feel sorry for you, about the Queen thing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 21, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Thank God our saviour was born on 25th December and not on 25th September.


 
Indeed.

Hail Mithras!


----------



## Superdupastupor (Dec 21, 2012)

Yes the tauroctony takes pride of place at this time of year.


----------



## ymu (Dec 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Full headline is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That surprises me - you're usually quite tough on journalist bending the truth to improve their story.

I think using "adds" instead of "mistranslates" is clearly misleading, even without the failure to point out that the mistranslation 'addition' occurred three times not just once (how odd, not to mention that, eh?).

There was no phrase added. There was one word mistranslated three times. That's bad journalism and it is a story. There's no need for eI to stoop to the same level by using a headline which implies that they did much worse.

For reference, the text which was supposedly added to:



> We don’t *kill Jews* because they are Jews. We *kill* the Zionists because they are conquerors and we will continue to *kill* anyone who takes our land and our holy places … We will free Jerusalem inch by inch, stone by stone.


 
and the correct translation:



> We do not *fight* the Jews because they are Jews. We *fight* the Zionist occupiers and aggressors. And we will *fight* anyone who tries to occupy our lands or attacks us. We *fight those who fight us*, who attack us, who besiege us, who attack our holy places and our land.


 
The other words that didn't make it through to translation are at least as interesting as the fight/kill mistranslation but they barely get a mention.



Random said:


> Not really "way OTT" considering how bad a distortion this was.


How bad is the distortion? How similar are the Arabic terms which the translator confused for each other? Is there a meaningful distinction between fight and kill when referring to war between two countries?

I think it's a much more serious distortion to state that the words "kill Jews" were added rather than the word "fight" mistranslated as "kill" three times.


----------



## elbows (Dec 26, 2012)

Oh Monbiot....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/26/my-inner-anarchist-lost-out-bourgeois



> *The day my inner anarchist lost out to the bourgeois me*
> 
> Boxing Day, 2011: a fall on the ice lands me in A&E – and that's when I meet the man with tattoos on his neck and knuckles …


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 26, 2012)




----------



## jakethesnake (Dec 26, 2012)

Lol. I just read this and came here to link to it. Good ol' George!


----------



## cesare (Dec 26, 2012)

Mind you, if you had to pick a likely candidate for writing something like that Monbiot would be probably the safest choice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2012)

the best bit about that is george going arse over tit


----------



## elbows (Dec 26, 2012)

I think my inner Monbiot is losing out to Animal from the Muppets.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 26, 2012)

Sometime in mid-2011 The Guardian ran a "story" called "Scandanavia's coolest tree-houses" and I momentarily considered taking a Molotov cocktail over to King's Cross.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 26, 2012)

Just read that Monbiot piece earlier. Wonder how much of his anecdote is true, I'm not going to dismiss _all_ of it just because it's him. I've heard enough well iffy stories over the years about some Brew Crew elements on certain sites myself. Admittedly second hand mostly, so it's hard to be sure about any of it.


----------



## co-op (Dec 26, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> Just read that Monbiot piece earlier. Wonder how much of his anecdote is true, I'm not going to dismiss _all_ of it just because it's him. *I've heard enough well iffy stories over the years about some Brew Crew elements on certain sites myself*. Admittedly second hand mostly, so it's hard to be sure about any of it.


 
100%. The brew Crew at their worst were just a massive fucking anti-social pile of shit - often justifying their crap behaviour with references to their "anarchism" ime.

But the fact that Monbiot can draw such massive political conclusions about a one-person anecdote says everything about him and sod all about the politics he starts talking about*.


*although I'll admit to slagging off anarchists on the back of the kind of dickhead behaviour he's talking about here


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 26, 2012)

co-op said:


> 100%. The brew Crew at their worst were just a massive fucking anti-social pile of shit - often justifying their crap behaviour with references to their "anarchism" ime.
> 
> But the fact that Monbiot can draw such massive political conclusions about a one-person anecdote says everything about him and sod all about the politics he starts talking about*.
> 
> ...


 
That, and the fact that he's referring to a particular brand of out-there liberal hippy pacifist anarchism. Now personally, I'm a bit of a wuss, but there's plenty of anarchists who tell anti-social dickheads where to go, and tolerating such crap has sod all to do with anarchism (although it does have a lot to do with people like Monbiot)


----------



## smokedout (Dec 26, 2012)

the piece isn't about anarchists, it's about george monbiot telling us who he isn't, a re-establishment of his class values based on the grotesque alternative


----------



## smokedout (Dec 26, 2012)

the working class forced me to be bourgeois by being terrible ruffians and stealing my coat


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 26, 2012)

Cool posts from co-op and Lo Siento, agree with you both. And smokedout has it as well. My post was only a gentle (and unnecessary?) reminder that some fuckers turning up to some protests weren't saints themselves to say the least.

Most of my knowledge based on what's Stig and her ex-protester friends, and one or two protest-experienced Urbans, have told me about old protests (road ones mainly). Also you hear plenty from hanging out with a fair few of the same people at festivals over the years.

Protestwise, I was hardly Mr Big myself or anything (to say the least!  )


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> In other news, I've just found out Jews don't have tails.


 
due to persistent rumours of shapeshifting theres still a stewards enquiry on that one .


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 26, 2012)

elbows said:


> Oh Monbiot....
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/26/my-inner-anarchist-lost-out-bourgeois


 
George Monbiot had an "inner anarchist"?

Liberal cocksucker kept it well-hidden!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 26, 2012)

smokedout said:


> the working class forced me to be bourgeois by being terrible ruffians and stealing my coat


 
Well, he's pretty much obliged to blame external factors, because fuck knows how he'd bring himself to admit that his own internal politics have always but always been straigtforwardly liberalistic.


----------



## Ming (Dec 26, 2012)

What possessed him to write that article? Guilt/fear/anger? And why did he use the word 'twocking'? He also seems to a bit pissed off that the other bloke didn't look after his jacket.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

Ming said:


> What possessed him to write that article? Guilt/fear/anger? And why did he use the word 'twocking'? He also seems to a bit pissed off that the other bloke didn't look after his jacket.


 
As a member of the proletariat my first thought is what possessed him to sit right beside an obvious mutt in an AE ward ?


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 26, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> As a member of the proletariat my first thought is what possessed him to sit right beside an obvious mutt in an AE ward ?


He wanted a chat according to the article:


> Only one person was sitting there. There were no magazines I wanted to read, so I parked myself two spaces from him in the hope of starting a conversation.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 26, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Sometime in mid-2011 The Guardian ran a "story" called "Scandanavia's coolest tree-houses" and I momentarily considered taking a Molotov cocktail over to King's Cross.


 
Really? What's wrong with tree houses, or with Scandinavians? Tree houses clearly are cool - they're houses, but in trees - and they are just the sort of thing that Scandinavians are rather good at. Sourcing pictures of cool tree houses and putting them together on a web page is exactly the sort of thing that one would want lifestyle journalists to do, especially if one isn't paying them.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

He wanted a chat according to the article

with  a person who's outward appearance would point to a distinct possibility of less than wholesome character who might try and take liberties. That strikes me as someone making an effort to be right on . When those of us who have to bump into such types on a daily basis would make a conscious effort to sit elsewhere , not engage in conversation and try to give off a perceptible aura of "don't even think of fucking with me you toe rag"


----------



## Favelado (Dec 26, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Really? What's wrong with tree houses, or with Scandinavians? Tree houses clearly are cool - they're houses, but in trees - and they are just the sort of thing that Scandinavians are rather good at. Sourcing pictures of cool tree houses and putting them together on a web page is exactly the sort of thing that one would want lifestyle journalists to do, especially if one isn't paying them.


 
Nothing is wrong with Scandinavians or tree-houses. It just seems everything gets turned in a fetish object now, even a tree-house gets turned into something cool. It's a tree-house. It's not cool.I can't imagine a Spanish newspaper running a lifestyle story with such a daft headline. It suggests British oneupmanship at its oddest.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 26, 2012)

It sounds as if this objection would apply to any list of the 20 coolest Xs.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 26, 2012)

To some extent but I thought tree-houses was particularly daft.

There are other permutations that could be annoying.

For example;

Istanbul's funkiest hamams
Palermo's pastry cafes for in-the-know Sicilians

Stuff like that.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 26, 2012)

I'd be interested in both of those articles, to be honest.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 26, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> As a member of the proletariat my first thought is what possessed him to sit right beside an obvious mutt in an AE ward ?


When ever your with people you don,t know you make an acsesement of them.and i would be wary of someone like that ,not that he is a bad person


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

> I parked myself two spaces from him in the hope of starting a conversation. He had a number one haircut and tattoos on his neck and knuckles. His hands and face were filthy. He wore a stripey fleece jacket, like the one I once owned, until I lost it. His was thick with grease and soot, and pitted with cigarette burns


 
Charles Bronson used to do this shit in Death Wish and even then he was taking a serious risk . For fucks sake George your going to get yourself done in quite badly if you keep this up .


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 26, 2012)

shagnasty said:


> When ever your with people you don,t know you make an acsesement of them.and i would be wary of someone like that ,not that he is a bad person


 
Exactly . He mightnt be, but why take the risk of finding out ?


----------



## Ming (Dec 26, 2012)

I dunno...i think he can handle himself.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 27, 2012)

Favelado said:


> To some extent but I thought tree-houses was particularly daft.
> 
> There are other permutations that could be annoying.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah but treehouses are cool, I woul definately enjoy an article on them, but then I watch that programme about small spaces and have stayed in a treehouse when on holiday


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 27, 2012)

I think shagnasty and Casual Red have some points about that Monbiot article tbh, however cringeworthy the article may have read to some (I do see that point as well I should say!)

We have Brew and other pretty hardcore drinkers hanging out at the top end of our salubrious High St here most days (it's on our way into town). You get to know when you need to be cautious. Normally no bother as it goes, but you can't always be certain.

That George Monbiot made an effort to engage at all, means he made more effort than I would normally, and more than fair few others on here would too -- completely understandably as well.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 27, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Nothing is wrong with Scandinavians or tree-houses. It just seems everything gets turned in a fetish object now, even a tree-house gets turned into something cool. It's a tree-house. It's not cool.I can't imagine a Spanish newspaper running a lifestyle story with such a daft headline. It suggests British oneupmanship at its oddest.


 
Yeah the lifestylism can be a *real* pain in the Guardian arse at times, especially on Saturdays ... not just the Graun either -- take a look at the Sat editions of the Indie, Times and Independent and all are pretty similar in that respect.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 27, 2012)

Ming said:


> What possessed him to write that article? Guilt/fear/anger? And why did he use the word 'twocking'? He also seems to a bit pissed off that the other bloke didn't look after his jacket.


 
Because the daft socially-insular cunt doesn't understand that twoccing refers only to theft *of* vehicles, not theft *from* vehicles (which, IIRC, is THEFT)?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 27, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> He wanted a chat according to the article
> 
> with a person who's outward appearance would point to a distinct possibility of less than wholesome character who might try and take liberties. That strikes me as someone making an effort to be right on . When those of us who have to bump into such types on a daily basis would make a conscious effort to sit elsewhere , not engage in conversation and try to give off a perceptible aura of "don't even think of fucking with me you toe rag"


 
I'm sure he thought that it was really very daring, and would earn him a high score on his middle-class condescension-o-meter to  talk to the bloke. He was probably already thinking of a way he could parlay his conversation with the bloke in the A&E into a dinner party anecdote (and possibly a delightful noshing off of the hostess or host at the end of the dinner party) before he'd even sat down near the bloke.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 27, 2012)

William of Walworth said:


> I think shagnasty and Casual Red have some points about that Monbiot article tbh, however cringeworthy the article may have read to some (I do see that point as well I should say!)
> 
> We have Brew and other pretty hardcore drinkers hanging out at the top end of our salubrious High St here most days (it's on our way into town). You get to know when you need to be cautious. Normally no bother as it goes, but you can't always be certain.


 
There used to be a bunch of them hanging around in the Elephant & Castle subways. Pathetic thing was that most of them were obvious Tarquins who only got the bottle to be aggressive from being permanently cunted on cider and special. About as hard when they weren't in a gang as a fresh dog-turd.



> That George Monbiot made an effort to engage at all, means he made more effort than I would normally, and more than fair few others on here would too -- completely understandably as well.


 
What was Monbiot's motivation beyond "wanting a conversation", though? I get the feeling he was probably looking for something he could turn into an article or an anecdote, rather than primarily wanting human interaction.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2012)

Also, he came of his cycle in the bad weather. lame, I did 30 miles on ice a-roads a fe weeks back and remained with dignity intact


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2012)

He's changed the opening hasn't he? I'm sure it said something like "yesterday was icy -icy like when...".The article history says it's been changed this morning.


----------



## elbows (Dec 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> He's changed the opening hasn't he? I'm sure it said something like "yesterday was icy -icy like when...".The article history says it's been changed this morning.


 
It originally said in the pre-article intro, under the headline, 'Boxing Day 2011' and now its changed to 'a winters day some years back'. It would not surprise me if a Guardian editor originally jazzed it up with boxing day and then had to change it as it was incompatible with the first sentence of the actual story.

The version on his own website has one extra fucking, and an initial reference to his coat being lost at a protest camp years before.

It also has a different title on his website:

*The Brindled Hounds*


“A sad tale’s best for winter: I have one / Of sprites and goblins.”


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2012)

I reckon there might be some internet evidence of Lord Monbiot being elsewhere that (originally) fateful boxing day. Thing's got lazy made up BS written all over it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2012)

the miracle of the returning jacket does strain credibility although he might have spoken to a traveller after going off his ride like a chump


----------



## elbows (Dec 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I reckon there might be some internet evidence of Lord Monbiot being elsewhere that (originally) fateful boxing day. Thing's got lazy made up BS written all over it.


 
Either that or my simpler explanation of inconsistency between the sub headline and the start of the piece. Although it may have been Monbiot himself who made the initial mistake rather than an editor as I suggested, I dont know.

I finally found a page that had scraped just enough of the original article to demonstrate how poorly the original sentences meshed:



> Boxing Day, 2011: a fall on the ice lands me in A&E – and that's when I meet the man with tattoos on his neck and knuckles …
> 
> It was at about this time of year, and the roads were icy. My bike slipped from under me and I rolled on to the pavement. I thought at first I was unharmed, but when I_..._


 http://www.onenewspage.co.uk/n/World/74rki664a/The-day-my-inner-anarchist-lost-out-to.htm

ie boxing day was at 'about this time of year'? No shit.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 27, 2012)

how  do you reckon your unharmed and the next minute find your unable to walk ? If your ankles fucked it really hurts a lot


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 27, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/27/occupy-uncut-evolution-activism



> UK Uncut has become the strong arm of a state too weak to enforce its own laws.


 
dafuq


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 27, 2012)

_It's early for New Year's resolutions, but this one might take a while to get used to: for 2013 we have it as a civic duty to cheer up. Cheer up significantly; infuse debate with optimism and pride. This is unfamiliar territory for any lefty, "onwards, upwards" being more of a free-market mantra._


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2012)

thats a five pint rant if ever I read one


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/27/occupy-uncut-evolution-activism
> 
> 
> 
> dafuq


Jodi dean is great - but she's a political idiot.


----------



## Greebo (Dec 27, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> how do you reckon your unharmed and the next minute find your unable to walk ? If your ankles fucked it really hurts a lot


Shock?  Sometimes it's taken half an hour for the pain to override the adrenaline before realising that the injury was worse than just a bit of a bruise.  And I've got quite a low pain threshold.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 27, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Shock? Sometimes it's taken half an hour for the pain to override the adrenaline before realising that the injury was worse than just a bit of a bruise. And I've got quite a low pain threshold.


 
so while shocked and later in great pain the very first thing we think of doing is walking up to dodgy looking skangers and striking up jovial converstaions with them ?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Shock? Sometimes it's taken half an hour for the pain to override the adrenaline before realising that the injury was worse than just a bit of a bruise. And I've got quite a low pain threshold.


 

yer, I'd go with that. Last time I came off the ride I twisted to fall on my bony hip and it took half hour before I realised I was hurt bad


----------



## Greebo (Dec 27, 2012)

Casually Red said:


> so while shocked and later in great pain the very first thing we think of doing is walking up to dodgy looking skangers and striking up jovial converstaions with them ?<snip>


No, or at least I wouldn't, but I'd be wary of putting myself at risk while already in no fit state.  Monbiot's a different class from me, is neither short nor female, and therefore wouldn't necessarily perceive risk in the same way.


----------



## Casually Red (Dec 27, 2012)

Greebo said:


> No, or at least I wouldn't, but I'd be wary of putting myself at risk while already in no fit state. Monbiot's a different class from me, is neither short nor female, and therefore wouldn't necessarily perceive risk in the same way.


 
the average sized and aged white male is most likely to be perceived as either a threat or challenge by your average white thug , target of choice more often than not .


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2012)

He normally has a phalanx of wadhamites screaming _free nelson mandela_  to protect him.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 27, 2012)

I wouldn't talk to many other people in A&E because

I'm usually concentrating on not throwing up when I'm there (I'll be there due to an acute flare-up of my condition)
I'm in a lot of pain
I can't think straight, let along have a conversation
Everyone else is in pain and not wanting a conversation with a stranger
Monbiot's an unthinking, insensitive tool.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> [re the Zoe Williams thing quoted rom just above]thats a five pint rant if ever I read one


 
Never know what's going to piss off anti-Guardianistas on this thread the most!  

I don't actually think ZW was *that* bad today -- the end paragraph quoted was the worst of it, some of the preceding stuff (contradicting Tory myths) not nearly so bad IMO.

As 5 pint rants go, I've seen worse -- including from myself  -- and better.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2012)

just marry it m8, stick the graun in a white dress and make an honest paper of it


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 27, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> There used to be a bunch of them hanging around in the Elephant & Castle subways. Pathetic thing was that most of them were obvious Tarquins who only got the bottle to be aggressive from being permanently cunted on cider and special. About as hard when they weren't in a gang as a fresh dog-turd.


 
May have encountered that same bunch there myself (?) but not that often. Those subways attracted all sorts of street drinker a few years back.

It's all very  different round here in Swansea anyway.



> What was Monbiot's motivation beyond "wanting a conversation", though? I get the feeling he was probably looking for something he could turn into an article or an anecdote, rather than primarily wanting human interaction.


 
Yes fair point, agreeing with that I think. Perhaps it's that which most undermines the accuracy/believability. A well edited anecdote if you like. Some truth, some embellished, plenty left out. Like plenty of 'personal experience' articles from op-ed columnists.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> just marry it m8, stick the graun in a white dress and make an honest paper of it


 
I've always lived in sin when not single


----------



## sihhi (Dec 27, 2012)

Monbiot gets 62K pre-tax for the Guardian columns and blogs.




> I have two live contracts.
> 
> One is with the Guardian, to supply columns, blog posts and other material, from 1st February 2012 until 31st January 2013, for which I am paid an annual fee of £62,007.
> 
> ...


http://www.monbiot.com/registry-of-interests/


On average he writes about once a fortnight, call it once a week. That piece of tripe collectively set Guardian purchasers back £1,000 on the most modest of calculations.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 27, 2012)

It's much closer to weekly that his column has appeared in the printed edition this year.

Stupidly overpaid whatever, though. And I don't even hate his stuff ... well not all of it


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 27, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/georgemonbiot

Contributions don't appear to be more than weekly across all platforms.


----------



## tbtommyb (Dec 27, 2012)

Isn't Rusbridger on half a million a year?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 27, 2012)

No, no. A mere 80% of that.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 27, 2012)

> I have two live contracts.
> 
> One is with the Guardian, to supply columns, blog posts and other material, from 1st February 2012 until 31st January 2013, for which I am paid an annual fee of £62,007.


 
annual fee, to avoid PAYE perhaps?


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 27, 2012)

smokedout said:


> annual fee, to avoid PAYE perhaps?


Probably.

And lodgers? really? He's not charging them very much by the sounds of things. Plus wtf is 'rewilding' and how do I get an advance of £40k to write about it?


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 27, 2012)

Rewilding i thought was when they introduced Bears and Wolves into parts of scotland. could be wrong tho


----------



## elbows (Dec 27, 2012)

At a guess you could probably do it with plants and trees as well as animals.


----------



## elbows (Dec 27, 2012)

Or, according to wikipedia, humans. I think we've got one or two believers in this stuff on some of the u75 energy threads, although they'd usually rather shout doom than get into the gory details. I doubt Monbiot belongs to this category, as he started promoting Nuclear power after Fukushima made him dream that the coal goblins were at the end of the bed, nibbling at his toes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewilding_(anarchism)




> Rewilding is about overcoming human domestication and returning to behavior inherent in human wildness. Though often associated with primitive skills and learning knowledge of wild plants and animals, it emphasizes the development of the senses and fostering deepening personal relationships with members of other species and the natural world.[_citation needed_] Rewilding intends to create permanently wild human cultures beyond domestication.[2]
> Rewilding is considered a holistic approach to living, as opposed to skills, practices or a specific set of knowledge


Insert sheep shagging joke here


----------



## smokedout (Dec 27, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> Probably.
> 
> And lodgers? really? He's not charging them very much by the sounds of things. Plus wtf is 'rewilding' and how do I get an advance of £40k to write about it?


 
his pompous register isnt very clear, but i make his income at around 80k a year, yet he says his net income is around £43k

so he's running up 37k a year expenses to write one shit column a week and spend four years writing a book 

also seems to clarify that his guardian payment is a fee and he is responsible for paying his own tax


----------



## elbows (Dec 27, 2012)

I guess you need to remove some tax & NI from some of those gross numbers.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 27, 2012)

in fairness though he does employ his mate to mow the lawn employ an assistant, owns an ipad runs an office and goes on holiday a lot pays for his own travel expenses


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2012)

The video shops used to want you to do it before you took the tapes back.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 27, 2012)

elbows said:


> I guess you need to remove some tax & NI from some of those gross numbers.


 
nope, he say his total taxable income is £43k - he's getting paid as self-employed, not an employee


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2012)

he's missing a trick by not having his own range of Monbiotic yoghurts. Guardian cunts would eat that shit by the bucketload


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 27, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> he's missing a trick by not having his own range of Monbiotic yoghurts. Guardian cunts would eat that shit by the bucketload


He could have a whole range of monbiotic goods - promonbiotic drinks, yoghurts, cheeses, milkshakes....


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 27, 2012)

elbows said:


> Or, according to wikipedia, humans. I think we've got one or two believers in this stuff on some of the u75 energy threads, although they'd usually rather shout doom than get into the gory details. I doubt Monbiot belongs to this category, as he started promoting Nuclear power after Fukushima made him *dream that the coal goblins were at the end of the bed, nibbling at his toes*.


lolwut. 

No dont. Its urban 75. "Physics" for political science types.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 28, 2012)

Why's Monbiot dreaming about coal goblins? We should be building more coal-fired power stations, not gas. The coal goblins aren't anything to be afraid of.


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2012)

Sadly I dont think he ever mentioned coal goblins himself, that was just me trying to avoid what would otherwise be a tedious repeat-rant by myself about a disgraceful article he wrote about nuclear power after Fukushima went melty melty boom boom.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 28, 2012)

elbows said:


> Sadly I dont think he ever mentioned coal goblins himself, that was just me trying to avoid what would otherwise be a tedious repeat-rant by myself about a disgraceful article he wrote about nuclear power after Fukushima went melty melty boom boom.


That's a shame, I'd think better of him if he had.

Melty melty boom boom  is that a technical term?


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2012)

A more technically precise sequence of events was:

Melty, leaky, boom, hiss, remelty. (reactor 1)
Melty, leaky, boom, hiss. (reactor 3)
Melty, leaky, hiss, whoosh very leaky indeed (reactor 2)
Boom, fire, fire (reactor 4 building)
Plop, plop, dribble, dribble, gush, oh dear (ocean contamination)

The above is somewhat incomplete pending future data from crap robots we havent got yet. In the meantime will have to make do with the above and a suggestion from one TEPCO shareholder that management should 'go inside the reactor and die'. Or the fall from grace of the regulators spokesman who had to step down after press articles of an affair at work where he eschewed vigorous sex for fear of his wig being displaced.

Wheres my £62k? Or my free apron from The Radical Tea Towel company? Or a pub lunch courtesy of the forestry commission?

Although to be honest I quite like his registry of interests, because I am nosey about how much people get paid in things like speaking fees and royalties.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 28, 2012)

so, would be interesting to know how many others the the guardian have self-employed status to dodge tax

here's a piece they published condemning the practice at the beeb

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/05/off-payroll-tax-avoidance-government


----------



## smokedout (Dec 28, 2012)

a dilemma for ellie and the ukuncut liberals perhaps


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

smokedout said:


> a dilemma for ellie and the ukuncut liberals perhaps


 
UK Uncut also use tax-dodging Amazon http://by-strategy.tumblr.com/post/38008160316/boycotting-amazon-is-boycotting-ukuncut-or-why-a

UK Uncut's demands 'companies should pay their corporation tax' are - like it or not - remote from those they claim to represent, so they are unable to mobilise widely and have to rely on a section of hyper-super-"peaceful" activists like Ellie Mae O Hagan et al. More generally, a large part of its leadership (controlling website, leaflets, actions etc) are Labour through and through so Labour councils (often mostly working class areas) are not targeted. They also hold off any attempt to organise within the service sector, away from established USDAW UNITE unions - hence it's _all_ about the activists.

A question in all seriousness:- Is there a large-ish single firm in Britain that _doesn't_ either price fix (utilities, supermarkets, LIBOR etc) or evade taxation in some form? Can UK Uncut's demands possibly be imposed by external activists occupying centre-piece central London branches of these firms?


----------



## smokedout (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> UK Uncut also use tax-dodging Amazon http://by-strategy.tumblr.com/post/38008160316/boycotting-amazon-is-boycotting-ukuncut-or-why-a
> 
> UK Uncut's demands 'companies should pay their corporation tax' are - like it or not - remote from those they claim to represent, so they are unable to mobilise widely and have to rely on a section of hyper-super-"peaceful" activists like Ellie Mae O Hagan et al. More generally, a large part of its leadership (controlling website, leaflets, actions etc) are Labour through and through so Labour councils (often mostly working class areas) are not targeted. They also hold off any attempt to organise within the service sector, away from established USDAW UNITE unions - hence it's _all_ about the activists.
> 
> A question in all seriousness:- Is there a large-ish single firm in Britain that _doesn't_ either price fix (utilities, supermarkets, LIBOR etc) or evade taxation in some form? Can UK Uncut's demands possibly be imposed by external activists occupying centre-piece central London branches of these firms?


 
I don't disagree with any of this, except to say in fairness they have been active with Disabled People Against Cuts as well so there are other dimensions to them outside of the pay your taxes famous five stuff


----------



## paolo (Dec 28, 2012)

Blimey this thread continues.

In the near time frame - five to ten years - the Graun will cease to exist, on paper. Nobody wanting a range of material buys the morning star or the swappy thing or anything else. Hair shirt for breakfast? It's not appetising is it?

The last profitable papers are the Telegraph and the Mail.

Halle-fucking-luja.

Cheer on the death of the Guardian!


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

paolo said:


> Blimey this thread continues.
> 
> In the near time frame - five to ten years - the Graun will cease to exist, on paper. Nobody wanting a range of material buys the morning star or the swappy thing or anything else. Hair shirt for breakfast? It's not appetising is it?
> 
> ...


 
I don't understand what you are saying.


----------



## paolo (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> I don't understand what you are saying.



Probably best answered in the context of thread.

Maybe this is a thread for enthusiastic Guardian readers, who have minor criticisms?

Is it?

Anyone wanting to be the owner of this?


----------



## cesare (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> I don't understand what you are saying.


I think he's saying;  well if it's as bad as everyone on here is saying, it's a good job that it'll fold sooner rather than later.


----------



## paolo (Dec 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> I think he's saying;  well if it's as bad as everyone on here is saying, it's a good job that it'll fold sooner rather than later.



Nicely summarised.


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> I think he's saying; well if it's as bad as everyone on here is saying, it's a good job that it'll fold sooner rather than later.


 
OK. I disagree with paolo, the constituency and political ideology it projects - liberalism - means inevitably 'The Guardian' will emerge under different headings with different titles - after any restructuring. It will absorb or be absorbed, but it won't end stone dead.


----------



## cesare (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> OK. I disagree with paolo, the constituency and political ideology it projects - liberalism - means inevitably 'The Guardian' will emerge under different headings with different titles - after any restructuring. It will absorb or be absorbed, but it won't end stone dead.


But you agree that it'll go from its current form and you're happy with that?


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> But you agree that it'll go from its current form and you're happy with that?


 
It changed form in 1974 I think after a strike, it also changed form in the mid-2000s to become Berliner size. It always changes forms - it's not really an emotional event for me. Was I happy/unhappy when the Evening Standard became a free paper? Not really.


----------



## cesare (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> It changed form in 1974 I think after a strike, it also changed form in the mid-2000s to become Berliner size. It always changes forms - it's not really an emotional event for me. Was I happy/unhappy when the Evening Standard became a free paper? Not really.


For me it's more of an emotional event when papers close, loss of jobs etc.


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2012)

Even if it doesnt exist on paper anymore people will still be able to moan if it exists on the net, where it seems to be quite widely read.


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> For me it's more of an emotional event when papers close, loss of jobs etc.


You're mixing up separate things, I don't know why.

The Guardian isn't closing. Its management does, however, want to increase surplus by sacking journalists and others, weakening T+Cs in general, maintaining high rates for advertising and purchases, expanding even more into books, travel and events. It's threatening its workforce right now on the basis of lies.


----------



## cesare (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> You're mixing up separate things, I don't know why.
> 
> The Guardian isn't closing. Its management does, however, want to increase surplus by sacking journalists and others, weakening T+Cs in general, maintaining high rates for advertising and purchases, expanding even more into books, travel and events. It's threatening its workforce right now on the basis of lies.


I'm not mixing them up - it was a related but separate comment in the context of what Paolo also had said.

Even on-line form will result in loss of jobs, and I do feel strongly about that.

I'm also probably feeling a bit emotional about it at the moment because an old friend of mine from the (original days) of the print at Wapping died just before Christmas. I'm not looking for an argument, I was just observing.


----------



## paolo (Dec 28, 2012)

Workforce threats worth a thread of it's own - start one now I'd suggest. There's good people here, including our very brilliant cesare. Can all be anonymous.


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

cesare said:


> I'm not mixing them up - it was a related but separate comment in the context of what Paolo also had said.
> 
> Even on-line form will result in _loss of jobs, and I do feel strongly about that_.
> 
> I'm also probably feeling a bit emotional about it at the moment because an old friend of mine from the (original days) of the print at Wapping died just before Christmas. I'm not looking for an argument, I was just observing.


 
OK, no argument, I'm sorry for your friend passing away, I don't think there is anyone on this thread that doesn't feel strongly about any loss of jobs.

The Guardian - the Guardian Media Group - are the ones bringing forward the job losses. It has cut jobs in the past keeping within the same format. Over a period of time, its regional wing ate up dozens of local papers, erasing countless positions slowly making people redundant, before it sold it on at a more manageable (profitable) condition elsewhere. By attacking those local papers, it subsidised its main Guardian and Observer output.


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

The Guardian's current strategy - apart from all manner of dodgy tax arrangements in tax havens (see above) - is to call for an extra £2 from internet consumers _not firms._





			
				David Leigh 23 September 2012 Guardian investigative journalism executive editor said:
			
		

> A small levy on UK broadband providers – no more than £2 a month on each subscriber's bill – could be distributed to news providers in proportion to their UK online readership. This would solve the financial problems of quality newspapers, whose readers are not disappearing, but simply migrating online.
> 
> There are almost 20m UK households that are paying upwards of £15 a month for a good broadband connection, plus another 5m mobile internet subscriptions. People willingly pay this money to a handful of telecommunications companies, but pay nothing for the news content they receive as a result, whose continued survival is generally agreed to be a fundamental plank of democracy. A £2 levy on top – collected easily from the small number of UK service providers (BT, Virgin, Sky, TalkTalk etc) who would add it on to consumers' bills – would raise more than £500m annually. It could be collected by a freestanding agency, on the lines of the BBC licence fee, and redistributed automatically to "news providers" according to their share of UK online readership.


 
On its own terms, it is better than a Murdoch style pay-wall system, yes. But why extract this £2 from the public and not from corporations/rich people? To anyone who has the internet, it is an extra slap.
They are saying to internet _consumers_: 'Pay another £24 a year for news or our workers will be first out of the door.' Same with the BBC 'Pay a higher licence fee or the workforce gets it'. The tactics of mean bullies.
I think both the Guardian and BBC - controlling mass communication and acceptable facts - via editorial pressure from above are framing the debate in these ludicrous terms.


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2012)

Sod that, especially as the Guardian are doing quite well online with getting eyeballs in other countries like the USA as far as I know.

In principal I would not be opposed to small broadband licence fees being collected if that money went to some kind of service that was owned and controlled by the public, but these concepts would have to have real meaning, not like the current gulf between the public an the BBC where we are just supposed to hoover up the propaganda rather than have an opportunity to create it.


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2012)

And at a bare minimum, not a penny more in subsidy for those who disproportionately employ oxbridge graduates.


----------



## paolo (Dec 28, 2012)

Well, it's a better discussion than whingeing about Polly Toynbee.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2012)

paolo said:


> Blimey this thread continues.
> 
> In the near time frame - five to ten years - the Graun will cease to exist, on paper. Nobody wanting a range of material buys the morning star or the swappy thing or anything else. Hair shirt for breakfast? It's not appetising is it?
> 
> ...


 

the stars not a hair shirt its more tabloidy than the SW or the Socialist both of which are very dry.

But at one pound sixt for a paper the size of the 30p sun, well, its not hard to see why they have the begging bowl out 24/7


----------



## teqniq (Dec 28, 2012)

Vacuous drivel alert:

It's time for a better capitalism, one that creates jobs and provides security


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

teqniq said:


> Vacuous drivel alert:
> 
> It's time for a better capitalism, one that creates jobs and provides security


 
More or less vacuous than in house working-class perspective person Lynsey Hanley?




> I've plodded streets and pounded pavements without a day's rest, and in so doing have come to believe not only that it's what we are born to do, but that there is a vested interest at work in capitalism that ensures we do as little of it as possible.* Walking is more dangerous to the established order of things than it is to the pedestrian trying to avoid being run over at a faded zebra crossing*. It's one of a number of antidotes to ignorance, binding us to our environment through the accumulation of local knowledge.


----------



## teqniq (Dec 28, 2012)

lol true, you decide


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> The Guardian's current strategy - apart from all manner of dodgy tax arrangements in tax havens (see above) - is to call for an extra £2 from internet consumers _not firms._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Leigh's first sentence is entirely contradictory. You're not levying the provider if the subscriber is paying the cost. In fact the provider benefits because they have your extra £2 per month to play with (multiplied by however many subscribers they have) to play with before they pass it along to whoever would disburse it to the media outlets.

Just another fucking scam.


----------



## sihhi (Dec 28, 2012)

teqniq said:


> lol true, you decide


 
In fairness annoying crap impression of a liberation theologian Giles Fraser has also done well in today's tripe stakes:




> What do I mean by magic? Forget Merlin. Forget Potter. I mean the belief that there is ever a short cut out of the constituent limitations of our humanity. That there is a way, instantly, with the flick of a wand or a credit card, of changing ourselves from one thing to something else entirely. Abracadabra. Magic is the escape fantasy of those who cannot cope with the fact that we are limited creatures, that we will grow old and die, that we can never have everything, that we will always be dependent on food and oxygen and the love of others, and that, because of this, we will often feel pain and loss. Magic is the belief that there is some other way of dealing with all of this other than simply by dealing with it. Which is why I think *the really dangerous magic – and I believe all magic is dangerous – is out there in the post-Christmas sales.* The most insidious magic is disguised as something so ordinary we don't even notice it. In terms of magic, both Christianity and contemporary market capitalism appear under the form of their opposites.


 
Sales=Really Dangerous Magic.

So clever-he's-outsmarted-himself literary giant Ian Jack gives us what I did on my Christmas hols fancy cinema style:



> This was our Christmas treat at the BFI on London's South Bank, though we knew, of course, that the second film's ending wouldn't exactly send us trilling across Waterloo Bridge to our post-screening hamburgers in Covent Garden, which is another seasonal custom.... "Too much animal cruelty" was one verdict as we conducted our postmortem over our hamburgers, though the main complaint was directed not at too much realism regarding animals, but too little when it came to humans. Could Scott, Wilson, Oates, Bowers and Evans really have behaved so stoically and politely, gallant gentlemen until the very end? The two women at the table found it unbelievable that so little emotion could be shown when, for example, the expedition's last support party left the five men to carry on alone, with no hugged farewells and only a shout of "Good luck!"
> I wasn't sure; perhaps it had really been like that. For example, I doubt that my grandfathers, born at roughly the same time as Bowers and Oates, ever hugged another person in public, or did very much in the way of touching at all, other than a handshake at New Year. As for stoicism, who can tell?


 
Martin Kettle, an international affairs expert for 30 odd years rambles something about England bad Holland good or perhaps Britain really is great or something:




> Perhaps the explanation is only that Dutch prowess began to dwindle so long ago compared with Britain's more recent decline. Certainly, modern-day Netherlands is extremely conscious that it is now a small country, dependent on European alliances in a way that is manifestly not mirrored in increasingly Eurosceptic Britain. Perhaps a small country feels permitted to dwell on a distant golden age in a way that a bigger one does not. Or perhaps the explanation is simply that the British have not yet learned how to agree an account of the age of British global power and wealth. It would be fascinating to see a credible attempt to contain such a subject within an exhibition similar to the one the Dutch have just mounted in Amsterdam. It would be great to try.
> The subject may seem too big, too raw and perhaps still too politicised – until one visits the German Historical Museum in Berlin and realises that tougher assignments have been successfully carried out. A satisfactory alternative modern narrative of British power remains to be written. Perhaps this absence of a settled history helps explain why Britain has such difficulties with its relationship with the EU. Or perhaps – a nice thought with which to end the year – our golden age does not lie behind us. Perhaps, echoing Milton, our own golden poet, the world is all before us.


 
Do others agree that the quality control in the Comment & Analysis section is lower than before?


----------



## teqniq (Dec 28, 2012)

sihhi said:


> Do others agree that the quality control in the Comment & Analysis section is lower than before?


 
Well sadly, yes. I mainly use the site to get an overview of the main news. The comments stuff seems to have deteriorated into mostly shite.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 29, 2012)

elbows said:


> Or, according to wikipedia, humans. I think we've got one or two believers in this stuff on some of the u75 energy threads, although they'd usually rather shout doom than get into the gory details. I doubt Monbiot belongs to this category, as he started promoting Nuclear power after Fukushima made him dream that the coal goblins were at the end of the bed, nibbling at his toes.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewilding_(anarchism)
> 
> Insert sheep shagging joke here


 
On the subject of rewilding, the Daily Mail has run the following article about a woman living such a lifestyle in Wales. Originally part of a larger community with her then-husband, after the divorce the larger community was split into smaller neighbouring communities. Monbiot would do worse than to start by talking to her and her community members.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...bbit-style-existence-mud-hut-Welsh-hills.html

If you ignore the mocking tone of the article, it's quite interesting.

Note to DM reporters: if you generate your own power, you DO have electricity, you're just not connected to the National Grid. Learn the basics, muppets.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 29, 2012)

I've decided, today, that the Guardian is completely shit with nothing worthwhile ever published in it,

Not ever.

It would be far better for the meeja in general if it completely ceased to exist whether online or in print or in any other format.

It would suit my laziness-preference, on here and IRL, if I *really* was to came to that conclusion anyway 

Saying anything even _slightly_ unhatefilled about the Guardian is far too much like fucking hard work.

Even if you chuck in plenty of (well informed  ) criticism as well, you're still an uncritical *G-worshipper*   on the two-year hate that's been that thread.

From the viewpoint of hardcore antiGuardianistas, you either hate or worship.

Nothing 'liberally'' inbetween permitted!

I could sue some on here for defamation of character, had I any legal grounds whatsover for doing so ...


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 29, 2012)

And yes, I know perfectly well that it's not just 'all about me' 

But I'm almost the only fucker on this thread, very few exceptions,  who ever has anything other than Guardian hate to post, so whatever!

PITFA frankly.


----------



## killer b (Dec 29, 2012)

Why do you bother?


----------



## cesare (Dec 29, 2012)

You can hardly blame people for keeping the thread on topic, Will.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 29, 2012)

Cos I'm totally fucked of with worse bias than in the pages of the Dailies Mail and Telegraph. Urban's better than that or should be.

And having my own politics and perspective lied about when I post anything even vaguely objective and better informed is also a complete PITFA.

Yes I do take that personally -- I'm almost the only person here who ever reads the damned thing *properly and in the round* -- and I'm a fucking leftie.

 No-one else here, including some less left wing than I am I suspect,  seems to do the same.

They (you included? not sure)  just selectively and vindictively hunt around online for only the very worst to post about.

Yes of course the bloody thing includes its *share* of complete shit, but that's an intellectually, politically and historically shit approach itself.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> You can hardly blame people for keeping the thread on topic, Will.


----------



## cesare (Dec 29, 2012)

Then why don't you start a pro-Guardian thread?

No, I don't particularly post much about the Guardian because I don't really read it (were you asking me? I'll answer anyway). I'll sometimes have a view about an article or piece that someone has linked to and if I don't think it's particularly good, or if it's dire, I might be arsed to say so.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> Then why don't you start a pro-Guardian thread?


 
Because it would be trolled and disrupted by Guardian haters far more often than I, not even close to being any kind of 'worshipper' FFS, ever posts in this thread 

That post above (#1578) was mostly >>>killerb btw.


----------



## Diamond (Dec 29, 2012)

Brillaint reporting from Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, as per usual, on the Battle for Aleppo in today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/28/aleppo-revolution-abu-ali-sulaibi


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 29, 2012)

Irrelevant to this thread apparantly  

(I did read that as it goes -- pretty good reporting I agree).


----------



## Favelado (Dec 30, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/dec/30/highlights-year-2012-personal-best

Eva Wiseman? Eva Morevacuous.

*Gadget of the year* My poor iPhone. It started the year being stolen, but made its way back to me by means of magic and some mercy. Inside, a grid of photos showed my friends in all weathers, gamboling and lying still and grinning next to rude signs, and a carefully curated selection of apps waited to entertain me. But like a cat that curls up beside a radiator and slowly stops eating, it wasn't long after its return before my phone stopped charging fully. You could tell it was trying its hardest, but plugged in all night it would only last a morning. At the Apple store they shook their heads with studied sadness. Simless now, it's been dark since September, and I'm still too sentimental to transfer over my wallpaper.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 30, 2012)

Diamond said:


> Brillaint reporting from Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, as per usual, on the Battle for Aleppo in today's Guardian:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/28/aleppo-revolution-abu-ali-sulaibi


 
We have a floater.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 1, 2013)

Favelado said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/dec/30/highlights-year-2012-personal-best
> 
> Eva Wiseman? Eva Morevacuous.
> 
> .


 
Never liked her. Observer = always (even) worse than the Guardian itself.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 1, 2013)

Here we go though :

John Harris : Welfare : Get ready for a war over benefits

(clearly entirely valueless -- he's associated with Compass after all)

Zoe Williams : Domestic abuse, changing the conversation

(not worth bothering with - she's Richard Williams' daughter, so her take on feminism is all about nepotism and nothing else)

Barney Ronay : The Ashes will be a show of Anglo Aussie resistance to the global pull of Twenty20

(talks too much, thus has nothing at all of worth to say about sport)


----------



## sihhi (Jan 1, 2013)

Fantastic piece calling to open up the professions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/9767602/Learning-on-the-job.html

Defending scientific education and knowledge 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/t...nowing-about-science-is-not-a-trivial-pursuit

Massively important call on environmental degradation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/co...ng-are-we-any-closer-to-saving-the-world.html

Fantastic reporting on the ongoing struggle in Thailand, the blood of 1976 and the ethnic divisions run deep

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...8982/Forgotten-war-in-the-Land-of-Smiles.html


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 1, 2013)

Yeah, I know. Fair point -- I like *some* (note emphasis) Telegraph content myself (mostly sport  ).

But, etc.


----------



## sihhi (Jan 1, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Yeah, I know. Fair point -- I like *some* Telegraph content myself (mostly sport  ).
> 
> But, etc.


 
etc... what?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 1, 2013)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> Yeah, I know. Fair point -- I like *some* Telegraph content myself (mostly sport  ).
> 
> But, etc.


 



			
				sihhi said:
			
		

> etc... what?


 
I do take the implication of that question.

Telegraph and Guardian are both very mainstream in media terms obviously. Not sure if any of my earlier posts contradict that however.

Purely IMO, I find far, far lower levels of insanely annoying content in the G than in the T.

And (like you maybe?) I'm capable of finding worthwhile content in both the Guardian and Telegraph.

For me personally, Guardian's better, but call that habit from roughly 35 years ago onwards ... as well as to do with me being neither a Tory nor a fanatically Europhobic nutter. Or a climate change denier .... etc etc etc 

Most people posting on this thread though, seem to start from *complete resistance* to there being anything even _slightly_ tolerable in the Guardian at all, ever. Hence their dishonestly selective hunting for the worst bits possible. Throughout this thread, from beginning to end, more or less.

See my posts previous page.


----------



## Diamond (Jan 1, 2013)

Another excellent report in the Guardian, from Jason Burke on the Delhi gang-rape:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/31/delhi-slum-home-rape-accused


----------



## killer b (Jan 1, 2013)

Its a thread for posting shit stories from the guardian William you bellend. Who's being dishonest?


----------



## sihhi (Jan 1, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> For me personally, Guardian's better, but call that habit from roughly 35 years ago onwards ... as well as to do with me being neither a Tory nor a fanatically Europhobic nutter. Or a climate change denier


 
<The Telegraph is not wholly Tory and nor is it wholly Europhobic and it certainly isn't in favour of climate change. You'll have to do better. I'm not sure how you can make such a dishonest summary of the Telegraph>

Remember you're the one accusing those who post on 'Why the Guardian is going down the pan!' for being dishonest. You're the one trying it on.


----------



## cesare (Jan 1, 2013)

"Dishonest selective hunting"

Fuck's sake.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 1, 2013)

Diamond


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 1, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Remember you're the one accusing those who post on 'Why the Guardian is going down the pan!' for being dishonest. *You're the one trying it on*.


 
You're probably right with that one, TBF! 

Points taken, but have a look at what non-haters are up against.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 1, 2013)

killer b said:


> Its a thread for posting shit stories from the guardian William you bellend. Who's being dishonest?


 
_Going_ down the pan, or _always  was_ right down at the bottom of the pan from the start?

You decide.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 2, 2013)

cesare said:


> "Dishonest selective hunting"
> 
> Fuck's sake.


 
'Dishonest*ly* selective' was what I posted


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2013)

thing is the torygraph doesnt go on about how left wing and progressive it is, it doesnt try and position itself as a voice of radicalism

the guardian does while allowing shit that is even more right wing than the torygraph


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2013)

and it doesnt have loads of defenders on here


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jan 2, 2013)

Be quiet William.


----------



## killer b (Jan 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> and it doesnt have loads of defenders on here


nor does the graun tbf


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> thing is the torygraph doesnt go on about how left wing and progressive it is, it doesnt try and position itself as a voice of radicalism
> 
> the guardian does while allowing shit that is *even more right wing* than the torygraph


 
Bit I've bolded : open to dispute in the detail, but CBA to argue the point today.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 2, 2013)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Be quiet William.


 
No problem Josef


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 4, 2013)

New year old story of the Guardian giving lovely puff pieces to the yellow scum

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/04/lib-dems-south-coast-westminster
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/04/liberal-democrats-hold-onto-seats


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 4, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> New year old story of the Guardian giving lovely puff pieces to the yellow scum
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/04/lib-dems-south-coast-westminster
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/04/liberal-democrats-hold-onto-seats


 


> Residents in Boorley Green, on the rustic fringe of Southampton's suburban sprawl,


 
did the fool actually set foot there? it is hardly rustic 

terrible lazy googlemaps writing


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 5, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> did the fool actually set foot there? it is hardly rustic
> 
> terrible lazy googlemaps writing


 
Sorry, sub's fault again - read that as:



> Residents in Boorley Green, on the rusty fringe of Southampton's suburban sprawl


----------



## elbows (Jan 6, 2013)

Can we put Observer stuff in this thread?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/06/jim-davidson-arrest-standup-comedy




> Yet, today, I am genuinely sad that Davidson has lost his chance to return to TV in _Celebrity Big Brother_, after being arrested at Heathrow airport on the eve of filming.
> In passing: what exactly is the remit of "Operation Yewtree"? It was set up to deal with allegations against Jimmy Savile. Then they started arresting other famous people, not all of whom even knew Savile but we assumed (in some cases, wrongly) that they were accused of similar things. Now it's Jim Davidson, with allegations from 25 years ago that the police say are "not directly linked to Savile" and apparently involve complainants who were in their mid-20s at the time of the alleged events.
> So: no Savile and no child abuse. Why is Operation Yewtree in charge, then? Who are they, the Celebrity Crime Unit?
> And why did they arrest him at Heathrow airport? He's not a jewel thief on the run across international borders. OK: he was about to do a series on Channel 5, which may be an even more effective way of disappearing completely. But he would have been evicted very soon. Couldn't the police have gone quietly to his house?
> ...


 
Fuck off.



> Our era's spirit of disapproval has triggered a widespread blandness and terror of challenging consensus, in everything from mainstream political discourse to the ordinary workplace, which makes the comedian or jester's traditional duty to shock and shake up more vital than ever. Haranguing them for shocking _in the wrong way _might be a luxury we can't afford.
> I think I wanted to see Jim Davidson on TV again because I miss the certainty of really knowing which side to be on. The comics of the 80s never called for the old guard to be silenced; they just wanted noisily to disagree. It was fun.


 
Fuck off.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 6, 2013)

Victoria Coren can say whatever she likes as long as she says it in _that_ voice


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 6, 2013)

elbows said:


> Can we put Observer stuff in this thread?


 
I'd say yes**, and that article you posted was truly a pile of shite (saw it earlier and gagged).

**So long as it really is clear when it *is* from the Observer (looks -ingly at one or two previous linkers in this thread  ).

The Observer (IMO) has for a long time been _conspicuously and consistently_ worse, with far far less in the way of even halfway reasonable stuff, than the Graun itself.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 6, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> New year old story of the Guardian giving lovely puff pieces to the yellow scum
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/04/lib-dems-south-coast-westminster
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/04/liberal-democrats-hold-onto-seats


 
Significant, and not in a good way, that those two are by Michael White (lazy, formulaic politics hack, long overdue for retirement -- first one) and Patrick Wintour (Guardian's biggest and most nauseating Lib Dem fanboi -- second one).


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 6, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Significant, and not in a good way, that those two are by Michael White (lazy, formulaic politics hack, long overdue for retirement -- first one) and Patrick Wintour (Guardian's biggest and most nauseating Lib Dem fanboi -- second one).


 
I'm not sure how significant it is - they're a Liberal paper, always have been.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 6, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> The Observer (IMO) has for a long time been _conspicuously and consistently_ worse, with far far less in the way of even halfway reasonable stuff, than the Graun itself.


 
Frinstance, how about this *truly terrible* review of 'Bang! A History of Britain in the Eighties' here

It's awful from start to finish. Book looks as if it's a Thatcherite hagiography (hadn't up to the other day heard anything about it), but it's even hard to be 100% sure of exactly _how_ Thatcherite, given how fawning and utterly uncritical Ian Thomson's review is.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 6, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I'm not sure how significant it is - they're a Liberal paper, always have been.


 
I know, but Wintour is about the worst of anyone there, at spinning for the LDs. Editorials and op-ed pieces are one thing, it's that much worse when that kind of spin is thinly disguised as political reporting.

Actually that's one of my bigger criticisms of the Guardian generally.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 7, 2013)

Limp Dum it may be, but 'fluffing' pieces for UKIP, like this one, are certainly doing 'good work' for Labour:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/07/nigel-farage-party-eccentrics-ukip



> " ...if you want to know what our political future might look like, Ukip's party leader is becoming harder to ignore."
> 
> "Farage turns out to be one of the most surprising politicians I have met – charismatic, funny, indefatigably good-natured and essentially cheerful"
> 
> "When he tells me he has no personal ambition for high office, and cares only about seeing Ukip policy implemented, I believe him."


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 7, 2013)

Note also, the Telegraph and the Mail both running prominent stories attacking him yesterday to try and shore up the tory right. Playing right into his/their hands by doing that.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 7, 2013)

Reluctant to do this one but it shows the sort of attitude:



> Following her arrest, Ege, a mathematics graduate, confessed to killing her son.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 7, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Limp Dum it may be, but 'fluffing' pieces for UKIP, like this one, are certainly doing 'good work' for Labour:-
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/07/nigel-farage-party-eccentrics-ukip


 
She's normally an OK interviewer is Aitkenhead (IMO), tends to aim at inducing people into being more revealing than they want to be and sometimes that's worked. But yes I had my doubts about that one!

Not sure she was _deliberately_ 'fluffing' UKIP -- I'm sure she'd deny it -- but it came uncomfortably close to it in places ...


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 9, 2013)

Yet another deluded LD puff piece 
After Glover left I thought the nakedness of the Guardians support for the LDs died down a bit but it's back up to insane levels since the new year.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 9, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> Yet another deluded LD puff piece
> After Glover left I thought the nakedness of the Guardians support for the LDs died down a bit but it's back up to insane levels since the new year.


 


> Ever since he entered coalition, Clegg has been written off as politically crippled, his party as heading for the dustbin. Perhaps we were wrong. In May 2010 we thought Clegg and his colleagues were merely kingmakers for day. Perhaps, after all, they have booked themselves limousines for life.


Lordy. This same time last year, Jenkins, Wintour and Watt all wrote pieces like this trash, that was then followed by a series of Blairite attacks on Miliband, so i guess that will be pencilled in for next week.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 9, 2013)

Jenkins is the new Mystic Mog


----------



## Firky (Jan 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> _This is real:_



Awful film. Someone recommended it to me and I lasted all of twenty minutes. The film is like the trailer stretched out for over an hour.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 9, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> Yet another deluded LD puff piece
> After Glover left I thought the nakedness of the Guardians support for the LDs died down a bit but it's back up to insane levels since the new year.


 
It's Simon Jenkins. Long known as fruitcakely barking.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 9, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Jenkins is the new Mystic Mog


 
Quite right, his analysis is *truly* appalling in that one! On too many levels to list ...


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 9, 2013)

Disability claimants pushed to the brink by 'faceless' benefits system -- Amelia Gentleman (Saturday)

There is a problem with welfare, but it's not 'shirkers' -- Seamus Milne (today)

Sorry to derail


----------



## cantsin (Jan 18, 2013)

Andy Becket's embarassing Ed Miliband puff piece yesterday , Rise of the Iron Man ( lulz) equal parts comedic and tragic as the titles suggests - as piss poor a political piece as i remember reading in the G2, and that's going some - Andy Becket, hang your head :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/andybeckett

sample nonsense:

" In 2011, another important Miliband loyalist and thinker, the Labour peer Stewart Wood, wrote in the Fabian Review: "Neoliberalism began in the late 1970s with Margaret Thatcher " - uh, no - Hayek !940's , Germany 1950's, Friedman, Virginia Uni,, Chicago 1970's 

"He has ostentatiously challenged orthodoxies, both New Labour and Tory, at regular intervals since: attacking Rupert Murdoch's newspapers " 
 -only after the Dowler revelation ( ie : 2 years after the tapping stories began to get exposed, and two weeks after shaking Murdoch's hand at the New Corps summer garden party, + a week after he'd snubbed the Durham Miners Gala....and what other orthodoxies has he challenged, not one is mentioned throughout the article?

""We've found being courageous works for us," says Wood (Miliband Flunkey ) . "We err on the side of boldness much more nowadays. " When ? Where? Just ONE example  ??

etc etc .


----------



## JimW (Jan 18, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Disability claimants pushed to the brink by 'faceless' benefits system -- Amelia Gentleman (Saturday)


Her husband's Tory MP, ex FT journo and brother of Boris Johnson Jo Johnson - discovered this because he was in my local night before last talking with some other public school type (ETA getting a fact-finding type brief on China so presume a journo) and by ear-wigging worked out is was an ex-journo MP so looked him up to find out who he was when I got home. Wonder if she lectures him on effect of coalition's "reforms"?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 18, 2013)

Very poor by Andy Beckett's normally better(ish) standards that piece. He's capable of being a proper historian, his 70's book is good IMO, but he discarded any effort to be anything like one yesterday.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 18, 2013)

JimW said:


> Her husband's Tory MP, ex FT journo and brother of Boris Johnson Jo Johnson - discovered this because he was in my local night before last talking with some other public school type (ETA getting a fact-finding type brief on China so presume a journo) and by ear-wigging worked out is was an ex-journo MP so looked him up to find out who he was when I got home. Wonder if she lectures him on effect of coalition's "reforms"?


 
I'd heard this before, about the husband and Tory connections, but I'd forgotten. You wouldn't know it from her articles ....


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 18, 2013)

Could be on any number of threads but:


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> It's Simon Jenkins. Long known as fruitcakely barking.


It is not just Jenkins. There have been shedloads of articles like this. They are a liberal paper and always have been. I have no idea why you have such difficulty grasping this. They run some great articles that you won't find elsewhere. They mostly run utter or partial drivel. It is my preferred paper because of the content I won't find elsewhere and because it raises my blood pressure more effectively than any other paper. Everything you could want from a newspaper. 

Stop this, please. You don't need to defend your choice of paper on the grounds that it is near 100% quality, ffs.


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Disability claimants pushed to the brink by 'faceless' benefits system -- Amelia Gentleman (Saturday)
> 
> There is a problem with welfare, but it's not 'shirkers' -- Seamus Milne (today)
> 
> Sorry to derail


Amelia Gentleman - married to Boris Johnson's brother IIRC, butchers has dirt. She writes some great stuff on disability and benefits - that does not put her or her paper beyond criticism.

Seumas (not Seamus) Milne also writes some great stuff, but managed to trivialise rape and lie about the legal situation in defence of Assange. He also explicitly, and repeatedly, refused my requests for a correction despite my sending several impeccable sources in his direction.

Don't do this. Please.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 19, 2013)

As I've just posted, you wouldn't know about Amelia Gentleman's Tory connections from the actual articles.

I don't remember that Assange article by Milne, but I'm sure you're right about it. You don't happen to have a link do you?

Maybe I'd 'do this' less if others on this thread weren't so *relentlessly* negative about a paper that really isn't as bad as this thread makes out. It's not like I don't have plenty of criticisms of it myself -- read my posts -- but if the G really was as 100% awful as most on this thread dishonestly make out it would be far worse than it actually was. IMO like.


----------



## sihhi (Jan 19, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Maybe I'd 'do this' less if others on this thread weren't so *relentlessly* negative about a paper that really isn't as bad as this thread makes out. It's not like I don't have plenty of criticisms of it myself -- read my posts -- but if the G really was as 100% awful as most on this thread dishonestly make out it would be far worse than it actually was. IMO like.


 
It's a thread about the decline of the Guardian.

It's faced with a profit squeeze - and a potential NUJ fightback hence it's articles are tending towards a soppy 'Pity the poor immigrant disabled benefit claimant'. It's trying to propagandise against the NUJ (see Media columns) in favour of responsible anticuts sentiment (actually procuts sentiment hence bigging up Ed Miliband again now that the Lib Dems are collapsing)

Seumas Milne is an exception to the overall liberalist but he's been affected by being a star columnist too long - hence the automatic trend to ally with whatever Michael Moore and Ken Loach were saying about Assange, plus maybe.

Again you're *accusing people of dishonesty and saying the Guardian is not as bad as it is on this thread*. It's a grossly meaningless statement, rather like a Mail reader saying: 'If you actually read the Mail most of it is about property, cooking, celebrities and holidays and travel - it's not as bad people make out only a handful of news articles actually blame poor people'.


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> As I've just posted, you wouldn't know about Amelia Gentleman's Tory connections from the actual articles.
> 
> I don't remember that Assange article by Milne, but I'm sure you're right about it. You don't happen to have a link do you?
> 
> Maybe I'd 'do this' less if others on this thread weren't so *relentlessly* negative about a paper that really isn't as bad as this thread makes out. It's not like I don't have plenty of criticisms of it myself -- read my posts -- but if the G really was as 100% awful as most on this thread dishonestly make out it would be far worse than it actually was. IMO like.


seumas milne assange site:guardian.co.uk -> google



Pretty sure it was this one I asked him to correct but I really can't be arsed to read it and check. It's teenage polemics and I've had a really hard time reading him since.


----------



## belboid (Jan 19, 2013)

Things never change, Part 782

"At a mass meeting in Manchester's Free Trade Hall, on New Year's Eve 1862, attended by a mixture of cotton workers, and the Manchester middle class, they passed a motion urging Lincoln to prosecute the war, abolish slavery and supporting the blockade [of the Southern, cotton supplying, states] - despite the fact that it was by now causing them to starve. The meeting convened despite an editorial in the Manchester Guardian advising people not to attend. [Later they wrote of] ‘the chief occupation, if not the chief object of the meeting seems to have been to abuse the Manchester Guardian' "


----------



## killer b (Jan 19, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> As I've just posted, you wouldn't know about Amelia Gentleman's Tory connections from the actual articles.
> 
> I don't remember that Assange article by Milne, but I'm sure you're right about it. You don't happen to have a link do you?
> 
> Maybe I'd 'do this' less if others on this thread weren't so *relentlessly* negative about a paper that really isn't as bad as this thread makes out. It's not like I don't have plenty of criticisms of it myself -- read my posts -- but if the G really was as 100% awful as most on this thread dishonestly make out it would be far worse than it actually was. IMO like.


dishonesty, again? Fuck you.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 19, 2013)

was annoyed to find that the fabian society is still a real thing and can command a 1000 attendees to its annual meeting. Why aren't these people dead yet


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> was annoyed to find that the fabian society is still a real thing and can command a 1000 attendees to its annual meeting. Why aren't these people dead yet


 
Because they have far more power and influence than you would like - as soon as they stop being able to actually infuence public policy their support will melt away; but how to do that?


----------



## ymu (Jan 19, 2013)

belboid said:


> Things never change, Part 782
> 
> "At a mass meeting in Manchester's Free Trade Hall, on New Year's Eve 1862, attended by a mixture of cotton workers, and the Manchester middle class, they passed a motion urging Lincoln to prosecute the war, abolish slavery and supporting the blockade - despite the fact that it was by now causing them to starve. The meeting convened despite an editorial in the Manchester Guardian advising people not to attend [in which they wrote] ‘the chief occupation, if not the chief object of the meeting seems to have been to abuse the Manchester Guardian' "


My best mate's great greats were amongst those cotton workers.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 19, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> As I've just posted, you wouldn't know about Amelia Gentleman's Tory connections from the actual articles.
> 
> I don't remember that Assange article by Milne, but I'm sure you're right about it. You don't happen to have a link do you?
> 
> Maybe I'd 'do this' less if others on this thread weren't so *relentlessly* negative about a paper that really isn't as bad as this thread makes out. It's not like I don't have plenty of criticisms of it myself -- read my posts -- but if the G really was as 100% awful as most on this thread dishonestly make out it would be far worse than it actually was. IMO like.


 
I really think you need to stop reading this thread - I like you and think you're a sound fella, but you're a real dick here defending people who despise you day in day out.


----------



## Ronnie Rubashov (Jan 19, 2013)

Haven't read this thread. Dunno if you've had this one yet..apologies if you have

#The working-class Manchester and Salford Advertiser called the Manchester Guardian "the foul prostitute and dirty parasite of the worst portion of the mill-owners".The Manchester Guardian was generally hostile to labour's claims. Of the 1832 Ten Hours Bill the paper doubted whether in view of the foreign competition "the passing of a law positively enacting a gradual destruction of the cotton manufacture in this kingdom would be a much less rational procedure."The Manchester Guardian dismissed strikes as the work of outside agitators – "... if an accommodation can be effected the occupation of the agents of the Union is gone. They live on strife ...#

Everything about the Guardian's self-image stands in contrast to the actual history. It always has been the lapdog of the bourgeois classes and connived at every point in the subjugation and immiseration of working people. It was particularly aggressive in its campaign for the repeal of the Corn laws at the behest of the mill owning class. In effect, since wage were already at subsistence level, the only way to further cut labour costs without inducing mass starvation was to reduce the price of bread.

It's not much more than a mutual appreciation society these days for tweedy liberal hypocrites and an employment agency for their fatuous offspring.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> was annoyed to find that the fabian society is still a real thing and can command a 1000 attendees to its annual meeting. Why aren't these people dead yet


 
I was annoyed to get fabian spam yesterday  How the fuck did they get my email addres?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 19, 2013)

Ronnie Rubashov said:


> Haven't read this thread. Dunno if you've had this one yet..apologies if you have
> 
> #The working-class Manchester and Salford Advertiser called the Manchester Guardian "the foul prostitute and dirty parasite of the worst portion of the mill-owners".The Manchester Guardian was generally hostile to labour's claims. Of the 1832 Ten Hours Bill the paper doubted whether in view of the foreign competition "the passing of a law positively enacting a gradual destruction of the cotton manufacture in this kingdom would be a much less rational procedure."The Manchester Guardian dismissed strikes as the work of outside agitators – "... if an accommodation can be effected the occupation of the agents of the Union is gone. They live on strife ...#
> 
> .


 
Just one of the Guardians many Hurrah for the Blackshirts moments


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 19, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I was annoyed to get fabian spam yesterday  How the fuck did they get my email addres?


 
Their stuff is worth reading sometimes if you want to get a feel for what the next Labour government is going to do.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> *I really think you need to stop reading this thread* -


 
Can't say your advice is wrong tbh 
The reason I keep getting stuck in, time waste though it is to persist, is probably because I actually read the fucking thing, one of the *very* few on this thread to do so (as opposed to selectively picking the very worst Guardian bits and only them, from the website).



> I like you and think you're a sound fella, but you're a real dick here defending people who despise you day in day out.


 
I appreciate I make myself unpopular on this thread.

I also think the level of contempt I get for being a tad more balanced about a paper that really isn't as bad in reality as made out, is unjustified.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

belboid said:


> Things never change, Part 782
> 
> "At a mass meeting in Manchester's Free Trade Hall, on New Year's Eve 1862, attended by a mixture of cotton workers, and the Manchester middle class, they passed a motion urging Lincoln to prosecute the war, abolish slavery and supporting the blockade [of the Southern, cotton supplying, states] - despite the fact that it was by now causing them to starve. The meeting convened despite an editorial in the Manchester Guardian advising people not to attend. [Later they wrote of] ‘the chief occupation, if not the chief object of the meeting seems to have been to abuse the Manchester Guardian' "


 
Can't say you didn't have a point posting that though


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

Ronnie Rubashov said:


> Haven't read this thread. Dunno if you've had this one yet..apologies if you have
> 
> #The working-class Manchester and Salford Advertiser called the Manchester Guardian "the foul prostitute and dirty parasite of the worst portion of the mill-owners".The Manchester Guardian was generally hostile to labour's claims. Of the 1832 Ten Hours Bill the paper doubted whether in view of the foreign competition "the passing of a law positively enacting a gradual destruction of the cotton manufacture in this kingdom would be a much less rational procedure."The Manchester Guardian dismissed strikes as the work of outside agitators – "... if an accommodation can be effected the occupation of the agents of the Union is gone. They live on strife ...#
> 
> ...


 
And I'll always respect a good historian, even though I last had a tweed jacket in the wardrobe over 20 years ago and I never found any kind of job through the paper ...


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

killer b said:


> dishonesty, again? Fuck you.


 
No probs with the abuse, I expect little else on this particular thread, but I'm still right about the dishonesty point (>>#1647 and others).

I've read sihhi's post too but I'll get back to that one another time.


----------



## elbows (Jan 20, 2013)

What is this bit doing at the bottom of a piece about the attempted assassination of the Bulgarian politician?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/19/bulgaria-gas-pistol-politican



> Having joined the European Union in 1997, Bulgarian citizens can move to the UK for work after temporary limits expire at the end of this year. Any Bulgarian who has been working legally as an employee in the UK for 12 months without a break will have full rights of free movement.


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## shagnasty (Jan 20, 2013)

elbows said:


> What is this bit doing at the bottom of a piece about the attempted assassination of the Bulgarian politician?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/19/bulgaria-gas-pistol-politican


It's a weak attempt at saying bulgarian are assasins and crooks


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## killer b (Jan 20, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> No probs with the abuse, I expect little else on this particular thread, but I'm still right about the dishonesty point (>>#1647 and others).


how are we being dishonest? What's dishonest about posting shit articles from the graun in a thread about shit articles from the graun?


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

Will get back to this when I'm ready for more. Not quite there yet. Anyway I want to reply to sihhi's post properly as  well.


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## Maggot (Jan 20, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> The reason I keep getting stuck in, time waste though it is to persist, is probably because I actually read the fucking thing, one of the *very* few on this thread to do so (as opposed to selectively picking the very worst Guardian bits and only them, from the website).
> 
> 
> 
> ...





William of Walworth said:


> No probs with the abuse, I expect little else on this particular thread, but I'm still right about the dishonesty point (>>#1647 and others).


It's not dishonesty - it's spin.


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## frogwoman (Jan 20, 2013)

they're now spamming me on youtube saying thaT WHEN the guardian announce something it won't be an obnoxious marketing gimmick

err yes it will. just fuck off.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 20, 2013)

Hugh Grant, was it?


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## frogwoman (Jan 20, 2013)

could have been, i was half asleep


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks for doing this, ymu, in a completely separate thread that I could *very* easily have missed.

Not cricket, to say the least.


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## killer b (Jan 20, 2013)

stop whining and explain why you called everyone on the thread a liar you hippie cunt.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

sihhi said:


> It's a thread about the decline of the Guardian.


 
Yes I do appreciate that, and that's one of killerb's main points as well.



> It's faced with a profit squeeze - and a potential NUJ fightback hence it's articles are tending towards a soppy 'Pity the poor immigrant disabled benefit claimant'.


 
The way you word that is unreasonably harsh (IMO) on some of the _BETTER_ critical articles in the G about claimant-related policy. And actually somewhat dubiously worded come to think of it!



> It's trying to propagandise against the NUJ (see Media columns) in favour of responsible anticuts sentiment (actually procuts sentiment hence bigging up Ed Miliband again now that the Lib Dems are collapsing)


 
Wouldn't defend any Guardian articles that are specifically anti-union or that favour/defend cuts. I've criticised such things in it myself, and in this very thread too on occasion ...



> Seumas Milne is an exception to the overall liberalist but he's been affected by being a star columnist too long - hence the automatic trend to ally with whatever Michael Moore and Ken Loach were saying about Assange, plus maybe.


 
I missed the Assange stuff from him, I'll take yours and ymu's word for it that what he wrote was out of order there. No single writer is ever fault free, even the better ones will produce pisspoor stuff sometimes. If I find and read that particular material, I'll most likely agree with you.



> Again you're *accusing people of dishonesty and saying the Guardian is not as bad as it is on this thread*. It's a grossly meaningless statement, rather like a Mail reader saying: 'If you actually read the Mail most of it is about property, cooking, celebrities and holidays and travel - it's not as bad people make out only a handful of news articles actually blame poor people'.


 
Not a valid comparison. Even the Mail contains the odd good article I accept, it's well resourced editorially compared to most other newspapers so it'd be surprising if it didn't.

But to imply (as you were?) that the Mail's dominant aganda is scarcely distinguishable from the Guardian's is debatable to say the very least. Is the Guardian's dominant agenda to demonise claimants and foreigners? Is the Guardian out and out Tory? It's not nearly as left as I'd like and never has been, but it's not into hate-sensationalism.

On the dishonesty thing. I accept I'm hardly popular on this thread for defending _aspects_ of the Guardian at times, but Maggot's right -- this is a thread _designed_ to make out, on the basis of highly selective anti-Guardian spin from most contributors here, spin that the paper is 100% shite and nothing but, and always has been. It's not declining in most peoples' opinion on this thread, it's *always* been complete rubbish, which is hardly an honest assessment of a paper that contains its fair share of shite (which I've never defended) but also has a pretty reasonable share of good investigation and exposes and information and coverage of important issues.

I'm old enough to still retain the habit of buying a printed paper most days -- I'm banned from non work related net access in my job and need something to read at lunchtime, on the bus, in the pub. As much for sports news as other news tbh. IMO out of a pretty poor mainstream bunch the Guardian's better (or less bad) than most, I go no further.


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Thanks for doing this, ymu, in a completely separate thread that I could *very* easily have missed.
> 
> Not cricket, to say the least.


Fuck you. I tagged you precisely so you would see it.

You have a serious problem William. Sort it out.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

Read my post above and identify my problem, precisely? I'm trying to be fairminded in the post just above yours.

Are you doing the same, in gratuitously chucking an irrelevant personal attack on me, into an entirely separate thread?**

How about other peoples' problem in this thread -- near-obsessive hatred of the Guardian to the point that it's been made out by some to be ridiculously appalling compared to the fairly mainstream reality of it?

**(I don't yet get the tagging thing properly btw, so I only found that post by chance)


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

killer b said:


> stop whining and explain why you called everyone on the thread a liar you hippie cunt.


 
Just answered you, as well as sihhi, you quality ale drinking Northerner! 

I've been lied about myself, incidentally .... often enough I've been charged with accusations of uncritical worship of a paper that at times I've found a complete PITA myself ... and I've posted links/examples of why!


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## xenon (Jan 20, 2013)

I don't understand why you post on this thread, attempting to defend the Guardian. Sure, there's the odd good artical in there. But this thread exists for peple to vent a bit of splean about the out of touch, liberal, faux radical politiccing and general knorsiating media wank, the Guardian so often plays hoste to. I presume there's no Daily Mail going down the pan thread is because it doesn't pretend to have any progressive politics. It doesn't make pretenses to stand on the same ground as real, non Oxbridge educated meeja circus denizens,  grass routes activitsts.


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Read my post above and identify my problem, precisely? I'm trying to be fairminded in the post just above yours.
> 
> Are you doing the same, in gratuitously chucking an irrelevant personal attack on me, into an entirely separate thread?**
> 
> ...


Well, I'm sorry you haven't worked out tagging yet but you get a get a bloody huge red alert telling you and a link to follow so there's fuck all to work out. I made an effort to be courteous to you by tagging you so that you would be aware. It is not cross-thread beef, it's the equivalent of accusing someone of being firky. You have been like this since before ern started bullying you for it. Something I stood by you on when it was happening, you precious cunt.

So fuck you and your hysterical accusations. "Near-obsessive hatred", for fuck's sake. They're just the other side of the Mail coin. The permissible dissent that squeezes out real dissent. That doesn't mean it is somehow wrong to read that newspaper, or a reflection on your character that you do. The only thing that is reflecting badly on you is your most definitely obsessive need to defend your choice of paper in these ridiculous terms.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

I think you're judging my posting habits on your impression of them from circa 2007 (?) rather than anything accurately up to date.

Read my recent posts on this thread please. I'm not being as unreasonable, right now, as you claim.


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

You have the self awareness of an acorn.


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## redsquirrel (Jan 20, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> was annoyed to find that the fabian society is still a real thing and can command a 1000 attendees to its annual meeting. Why aren't these people dead yet


Engels was bang on the money about the Fabians, vile slugs that should be first against the wall come the revolution.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

xenon said:


> I don't understand why you post on this thread, attempting to defend the Guardian. Sure, there's the odd good artical in there. But this thread exists for peple to vent a bit of splean about the out of touch, liberal, faux radical politiccing and general knorsiating media wank, the Guardian so often plays hoste to. I presume there's no Daily Mail going down the pan thread is because it doesn't pretend to have any progressive politics. It doesn't make pretenses to stand on the same ground as real, non Oxbridge educated meeja circus denizens, grass routes activitsts.


 
Fair points really. The only qualification I'd add is that I don't defend it uncritically.

If you need to know why I still waste my time replying on this thread, well I'm not sure tbh!

But here's a go : I read the thing, perhaps more thoroughly than most on Urban, and I end up with a more balanced, dare I say objective, view of both its faults and its positives than most because of that. After more than 30 years of the Guardian habit I have to confess! 

The other main reason I tend to defend its better aspects is because of the scarily reactionary default politics I'm surrounded by at work. Earlier posts from me further back on this thread on that one, but slamming the Guardian's politics ... well I've done that more than once on here myself, but it still *seems* like a bit of a self indulgent luxury when I have to put up with kneejerk Failisms most days from a fair few.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

ymu said:


> You have the self awareness of an acorn.


 
And your assessment of me is wildly, and negatively, exaggerated. Not to mention wildly out of date.

How about addressing what I've actually posted about the Guardian today, perhaps? I don't expect you to agree but you're smart enough to post something on topic. Give it a go, please. It's not like you at any time to be so abusive.


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

I read the Guardian too William. It's the tab most likely to be up there after Urban. Usually both. I read it less now I'm on Twitter, because that gives me an index of the best stuff from all the papers, but the kind of people I follow lead me to the best the Guardian has to offer.

And I can see what is wrong with it. You're not even sure what was wrong with the Assange article. For fuck's sake. Has it never occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, you're a recovering liberal who was not quite as left-wing as he thought before he joined urban and got exposed to the less permissible dissent?


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## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2013)

ymu said:


> You have the self awareness of an acorn.


An early contender for cuss of the year


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## redsquirrel (Jan 20, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> On the dishonesty thing. I accept I'm hardly popular on this thread for defending _aspects_ of the Guardian at times, but Maggot's right -- this is a thread _designed_ to make out, on the basis of highly selective anti-Guardian spin from most contributors here, spin that the paper is 100% shite and nothing but, and always has been. It's not declining in most peoples' opinion on this thread, it's *always* been complete rubbish, which is hardly an honest assessment of a paper that contains its fair share of shite (which I've never defended) but also has a pretty reasonable share of good investigation and exposes and information and coverage of important issues.


Absolute crap, this thread was originally started to show that since the coalition government the Guardian had shifted somewhat. That there had been (and still are) a load of puff pieces, commentary and editorials supporting the LibDems and backing the coalition.

The Guardian may have always been liberal but there was a definite change in emphasis around 2010. With Glover leaving you could argue that the paper has shifted back (to some degree) but there was something of a change and it was/is worth keeping an eye on.

As for the stuff about the Mail etc, well quite frankly it's pathetic. The type of shit that articul8 and the other Labour fools come out with to get people to back their party. Ultimately the Mail and the Guardian are on the same side just like the Tories and Labour.

ETA: That's not to say that this thread hasn't also been used for general piss-taking/bitching as well.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

ymu : Thanks for that post. I still need to read that Assange article. Will find time to look for it soon promise. I did the opposite of claiming there was nothing wrong with it, though, and I'd be surprised if I end up disagreeing with you and sihhi about it like i said.

I'd find it hard to claim that I was anything more than somewhere between well left of Labour and very left of it politically. As for liberalism, I'll leave that for another time ... Suffice it to say that my recovery, if I ever had to have one, is fairly robustly healthy I hope ...

Redsquirrel : more later etc, got to retire pretty soon.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 20, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> An early contender for cuss of the year


 
Nicely insulting and well wordedly so too I'll admit, but hardly all that accurate!


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

All appearances to the contrary, I do love you William. I just think you need to step back a bit and stop seeing this as an attack on your psyche. Check these links out and see if you can work out what we're all banging on about. Unless you leap to the defence of every Lib Dem voter who intends to do so again, you cannot sustain your stance on this.


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## killer b (Jan 20, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Just answered you, as well as sihhi, you quality ale drinking Northerner!


what's this? We both like a beer so its ok for you to call me a liar? Don't think so.


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## sihhi (Jan 20, 2013)

You still post articles from the Guardian in an attempt to prove a. the Guardian is a maintaining high standards and is a friend of the people.



> The way you word that is unreasonably harsh (IMO) on some of the _BETTER_ critical articles in the G about claimant-related policy. And actually somewhat dubiously worded come to think of it!


 
But it's not unreasonably harsh on the overall output of all its articles relating to the welfare state.



> Wouldn't defend any Guardian articles that are specifically anti-union or that favour/defend cuts. I've criticised such things in it myself, and in this very thread too on occasion ...


 
My point is articles in the Guardian defending cuts are more evident in this recession 2008 onwards compared to the Major recession in the early 1990s or the first term cuts from Thatcher.

On Assange/Milne what is your point?



> Not a valid comparison. Even the Mail contains the odd good article I accept, it's well resourced editorially compared to most other newspapers so it'd be surprising if it didn't.


 

What does well resourced editorially mean? It has well paid editors?





> But to imply (as you were?) that the Mail's dominant aganda is scarcely distinguishable from the Guardian's is debatable to say the very least. Is the Guardian's dominant agenda to demonise claimants and foreigners? Is the Guardian out and out Tory? It's not nearly as left as I'd like and never has been, but it's not into _hate-sensationalism_.


 
It has been heavily into 'hate sensationalism' in the past - any brief glance at its editorials during the miners' strike, Wapping or the P&O strike shows this - the weakened labour response has reduced the need for this kind of hate.

Instead we get this kind of editorial 'hate' at the height of the Paulsgrove protests in 2000:

"One of the lessons learned fast by the plotters in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar is that a mob, once aroused, will not easily be stood down: it cannot be switched on and off. The organisers of the protests in the Portsmouth estate of Paulsgrove will know by now if that rule still holds. Yesterday they asked the crowds to suspend their anti-paedophile protests, which had grown increasingly violent, and talk instead with the local council. "Have a night off, stay at home, see to your children, clean your house," said the protesters' spokesman, Barry Pettinger. But he added that it was not wholly up to him: "We do not control the people."

What Mr Pettinger seemed to be recognising was the same fact which had caused such alarm beyond Paulsgrove: that this was a mob out of control. The smashing of windows, the burning of cars, the hurling of petrol bombs, even at police - coupled with the sight of young children chanting "hang 'em" - had sent a chill through all those aware of the frailty of public order. Labour MP Robin Corbett has even suggested prosecution of the News of the World, whose "naming and shaming" of paedophiles has been blamed for igniting Paulsgrove.

The fact that the demonstrators sat down for talks yesterday is welcome. Perhaps they will be persuaded by the police evidence that they have repeatedly hounded the innocent, torching the homes and wrecking the lives of people who have nothing to do with child abuse. Perhaps, too, they will accept that their actions have actually increased the risk to their children, by driving paedophiles underground where they cannot be monitored. Maybe they will even realise that paedophilia is not a single enemy: that there are some abusers whose behaviour, though indecent and vile, does not represent a homicidal threat to children.

But there are grounds for pessimism. For what this stand-off has exposed is the chasm that divides the 3,000 or so estates (the government's figure) like Paulsgrove from the more affluent, sheltered parts of Britain where calmer discussion prevails. The liberal arguments familiar in newspapers, TV studios, parliamentary tea rooms and bishops' studies cut no ice among the boarded-up stores and sub-standard housing of Paulsgrove. For them, the distinction between a convicted and suspected paedophile is academic: "Either way, we just want them out of here," said one of the protesters' leaders on Wednesday. What might be the evidence against someone convicted of no crime? "Word of mouth," she said. What might count elsewhere as _the basic principles of a civilised society are a foreign language in Paulsgrove._

This, then, is the real meaning of social exclusion. Thousands of estates have been allowed to become _dustbins for the rest of society, out of sight_ and, until a _moment like this one, out of mind_. (sihhi - Out of mind to who? How can they be out of mind for people who live on them, have neighbours and friends who live on them etc.)
Now they are getting together, bonding as a community - if not in quite the way the prime minister and all his communitarian rhetoric envisaged. There are dangers here, and not just from those who abuse children."



> On the dishonesty thing. I accept I'm hardly popular on this thread for defending _aspects_ of the Guardian at times, but Maggot's right -- this is a thread _designed_ to make out, on the basis of highly selective anti-Guardian spin from most contributors here, spin that the paper is 100% shite and nothing but, and always has been. It's not declining in most peoples' opinion on this thread, it's *always* been complete rubbish, which is hardly an honest assessment of a paper that contains its fair share of shite (which I've never defended) but also has a pretty reasonable share of good investigation and exposes and information and coverage of important issues.


 
'Selective anti-Guardian spin' that it is '100% shite and nothing but, and always has been' - pure fantasy.




> I'm old enough to still retain the habit of buying a printed paper most days -- I'm banned from non work related net access in my job and need something to read at lunchtime, on the bus, in the pub. As much for sports news as other news tbh. IMO out of a pretty poor mainstream bunch the Guardian's better (or less bad) than most, I go no further.


 

I don't care what paper(s) you read, I object to your misrepresenting posters here and the wider claim that the Guardian is not going down the pan but maintaining intellectual honesty, high investigative standards and ample opportunity for the subjects of events to speak for themselves.


Let's do this more objectively less spin you say the new entries on the Guardian's comment and editorial C+P straight:





> In praise of … Ken Stott
> 20 Jan 2013: Editorial: In the West End at the moment you can see Stott playing Uncle Vanya as it should be done
> 
> Animals: are they good for supper or good companions?
> ...


 
This is what used to be the Guardian's Comment & Analysis section now called Comment is Free - so much of it is pretty weak pap - do you accept that this objective sample - no messing proves the point?


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## ymu (Jan 20, 2013)

ymu said:


> Has it never occurred to you that maybe, just maybe, you're a recovering liberal who was not quite as left-wing as he thought before he joined urban and got exposed to the less permissible dissent?


Given that I have been quite harsh on acorns William, I should add here that I know this because

_<stands up>_

My name is ymu and I am a recovering liberal.

_<bows head, sits down>_


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## killer b (Jan 20, 2013)

William isn't recovering.


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## ymu (Jan 21, 2013)

Early stages mate, early stages. Ever known a recovering swappie?


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 21, 2013)

The first stage is to admit you have a problem - he hasn't done that yet.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 21, 2013)

I have a big problem with staying away from this thread that's for sure.

Sihhi's latest is a tough post. Need more time to reply to that.
(By 'well resourced editiorially' on the DM though, I meant strong editorial budget with plenty of resources for journalism)

killerb : I wouldn't call anyone a liar who hasn't specifially accused me of uncritical Guardian worship ('Liberal' = highly debateable ; 'worship' = simply not true)
My issue was much with the overall dishonest approach taken by this thread more generally, as in : by only selecting the shite examples, whatever the thread title, pushes the line that the paper's completely full of shit and never has anything worthwhile in it at all. So yes I do think that's pretty shoddy and dishonest.

Bollocks, I'm supposed to be in a rush today. No more time.


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## cesare (Jan 21, 2013)

That's a bit like a LibDem moaning like hell and calling people dishonest for posting reasons why the LibDems are shit on the Why The LibDems Are Shit thread.


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## ymu (Jan 21, 2013)

BUt they blocked boundary reform! probably


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## frogwoman (Jan 21, 2013)

just because a paper sometimes has worthwhile stuff in it doesn't mean it is not shit, the daily mail often has good articles in it and even something like the bnp website is sometimes interesting to read to see the analysis and what they are thinking


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## killer b (Jan 21, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> My issue was much with the overall dishonest approach taken by this thread more generally, as in : by only selecting the shite examples, whatever the thread title, pushes the line that the paper's completely full of shit and never has anything worthwhile in it at all. So yes I do think that's pretty shoddy and dishonest.


this is total nonsense. you're out of your depth william.

however, if you insist on standing by your accusation of dishonesty, i'll stand by my view of you being a cunt.


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## xenon (Jan 21, 2013)

Exactly. People link to the Guardian all the time when an article is relevant. Ditto the BBC. The existence too of Why the BBC is Shit thread, doesn't mean you can't enjoy and be informed by a lot of their output. It means when it comes to politics and the jounalistic line most often taken, they're weak or rotten.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 21, 2013)

xenon said:


> Exactly. People link to the Guardian all the time when an article is relevant. Ditto the BBC. The existence too of Why the BBC is Shit thread, doesn't mean you can't enjoy and be informed by a lot of their output. It means when it comes to politics and the jounalistic line most often taken, they're week or rotten.


weak.


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## sihhi (Jan 21, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> I have a big problem with staying away from this thread that's for sure.
> 
> Sihhi's latest is a tough post. Need more time to reply to that.
> (By 'well resourced editiorially' on the DM though, I meant strong editorial budget with plenty of resources for journalism)


 
Plenty of resources being deployed for journalism is increasingly untrue for the Daily Mail. 

Note please that I cited without editing all the latest Comment is Free publications down the side of the page - no cherrypicking. You are going to have to make a case for their enlightening and expanding substance meaning that we should _continue_ to see the Guardian at the level of a decent paper on the side of the people, albeit one that incites hatred against trade unions when they struggle.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 21, 2013)

<edited away . Read following posts for why>


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## William of Walworth (Jan 21, 2013)

<edited. See following posts, especially ymu's, for why. I don't need that level of contempt. See you in other threads!>


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## ymu (Jan 21, 2013)

Somebody please make it stop.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 21, 2013)

ymu said:


> Somebody please make it stop.


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## killer b (Jan 21, 2013)

william: i'm calling you a cunt 'cause you're calling us liars, that's all. I think that's reasonable, in the absence of any evidence presented by you?

your spirited defence of the guardian merely marks you out as a fool.


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## mk12 (Jan 21, 2013)

> *Build your own snowman – interactive*
> 
> Are you stuck indoors? Or has the snow near you melted? Get in the snowy spirit anyway by putting together your own snowman. Just click on your favourite snowman accessories and our interactive will do the rest




http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jan/21/build-snowman-interactive


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## sihhi (Jan 21, 2013)

For the benefit of William of Walworth:




> Obama inaugurates renewed energy on climate change
> 21 Jan 2013: Sarah van Gelder: That the president put climate change so high on his second-term agenda surprised many. But action must follow words
> 
> An action-packed thriller is about to unfold in Davos, Switzerland
> ...


 
No spin - straight list.
Weak weak weak... Monbiot bigging up Churchill the Liberal with a call for Georgism now, stupid pointless polls - the polls on this forum are more interesting and worthy, Michael 'I lub-social democracy' Wolff, John Sweeney - bad Algerians, bad Algerians - whose been sustaining their armed forces not asked not answered, puff piece for Cameron from a hard-right Tory, it's not noble of Harry to fight for his country it's garbage if he does or doesn't, more Obama-can-make-a-change now in 2013 I mean at this point there's sawing off your own gonads or reading them in full.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks for that sihhi. I wanted to reply to your posts, which I respect, but I'm off this thread for the time being. I was wasting my time and other peoples'. In the end I'm not so enamoured of the Guardian (to say the least!) that I can be arsed any more.

Maybe another time, but just now I need a break from this particular thread.


----------



## killer b (Jan 22, 2013)

Slander us, then run away when called on it? Ok. Got your measure.


----------



## Firky (Jan 22, 2013)

Grow some balls on your opinions, William.


----------



## Ronnie Rubashov (Jan 22, 2013)

If the Guardian's going down the pan, it implies it was Ok once. Not sure about his tbh...at least editorially. That said, 3 or 4 years ago, you got some decent comments below the line On CIF. Then they started banning anyone who suggested it was anything but a progressive and meritocratic utopia. I mention this as I've a distinct memory of Laurie Penny turning up and getting ripped to bits for all the right reasons...and some guy from Oxbridge who was working for some LibDem MP got his arse handed back on a silver platter for basically suggesting a refusal to endorse identity politics was a form of psychopathy. 

That wouldn't happen these days. I recall they also regarded any mention of nepotism was a de facto act of Hari Kari. Then they staffed the place with a bunch of creeping-Jesus, CBBC presenter types who only take their sandals off to cycle to work on bikes made from driftwood. Now it's so fuckin lame and formulaic that you don't need much more than the strap line to write the thing yourself, along with the comments. Some cunt like Hundal comes on these days and comes across as an outspoken Bolshie maverick. About once every couple of months I follow a link there and get so wound up I post something. I get an instant ban and a polite notice explaining about standards etc...it's the last bit which does the damage. It's a fuckin good job I never have access to the price of an assault rifle and the petrol money to get down there. If I ever win lottery, I'm getting life.


----------



## ymu (Jan 22, 2013)

Those people (the ones that got banned/censored) are behind all the Peterloo Massacre badges on CiF. Some Rusbridger correspondence re: cheerleading the Lib Dems on there.

Edit: they moved to a blog at one point http://otmpeterloo.wordpress.com/


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 25, 2013)

Great chat.


----------



## Ronnie Rubashov (Jan 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Great chat.



#Marxism in America needs to be more than an intellectual tool for mainstream commentators befuddled by our changing world. It needs to be a political tool to change that world. Spoken, not just written, for mass consumption, peddling a vision of leisure, abundance, and democracy even more real than what the capitalism's prophets offered in 1939. A socialist Disneyland: inspiration after the "end of history".#

So basically, Marxism takes the place it's always held in the states: a reference point for smug bourgeois academics and 'intellectuals', only this time...people should listen to them...lots of people, in fact.  Fuckin brilliant. How very Guardian.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 25, 2013)

I was talking more about the comments to be honest, slightly knowing Bhaskar i know that's the exact opposite of what he's aiming for with Jacobin, he's got very little interest in academics or intellectuals. That said, i think his project is going to have work very hard not to allow itself to get enveloped in all that shit. I think they've made a good start but can sense the political-hipsters sniffing around.


----------



## sihhi (Jan 25, 2013)

This is the Guardian in its good days when it was anti-Thatcher.
1. It does not matter who wins strikes.
2. The final para conclusion firms must maximise their potential strengths (ie profit motive) whatever one side or the other says.


----------



## sihhi (Jan 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I was talking more about the comments to be honest, slightly knowing Bhaskar i know that's the exact opposite of what he's aiming for with Jacobin, he's got very little interest in academics or intellectuals. That said, i think his project is going to have work very hard not to allow itself to get enveloped in all that shit. I think they've made a good start but can sense the political-hipsters sniffing around.


 
Maybe, but that article is the worst Guardian article for some time - well done


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 25, 2013)

Not read the article i have to admit


----------



## sihhi (Jan 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not read the article i have to admit


 
So... You took a guess it would be a dire article -  and it was .


Something about his style rubs me up the wrong way. 
I dislike overuse of the phrase 'my generation'.



> For many in my generation, the ideological underpinnings of capitalism have been undermined.


 
Who thinks Paul Krugman is profound and important?
Or that Foreign Policy is getting a shot in the arm from Leo Panitch?

It's Paul Mason-ism, all super-smart, but helping your enemy adapt rather than strengthening your side.



> From Marx and Smith, Mason moved onto the current generation’s most obvious antecedents – the thinkers that inspired the 1968 student revolts, most notably the doyen of Situationism, Guy Debord, who argued that capitalism has replaced genuine social life with an inauthentic ‘spectacle’. ‘I wish mainstream politicians today had a little more exposure to those sorts of ideas, it might allow them to think a little bit more freely through the problems that they are confronting right now,’ Mason says.With one ear to the street and another to the boardroom, Mason knows better than most the sheer scale of the challenge facing politicians today.


 
http://www.petergeoghegan.com/?p=537

http://www.vice.com/read/jeremy-lin-was-not-greedy-youre-just-stupid-knicks-rockets


 I agree with his main idea but his approach is just alienating. One superstar player is not a trade union - individual contracts _are_ dangerous - multi-million salaries _produce_ the backlash which can be directed against managers and shareholders - but not if you defend 40mil$ contracts as a principle.



> JEREMY LIN IS NOT GREEDY, YOU'RE JUST STUPID
> It’s not hard to convince a liberal that migrant workers deserve a living wage. It’s tougher to argue that Lin deserves an extra five million, but the same logic applies.
> 
> It’s a struggle between management and labor and management has made plenty of money milking a player like Lin for all he was worth—international media interest, jersey and ticket sales, the Cablevision deal, not to mention that without him the Knicks might not have even made the playoffs.
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 28, 2013)

This really happeneded, yes happended.


----------



## Fruitloop (Jan 28, 2013)

No right of reply for Karl


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 28, 2013)

Jesus, someone must have been taking the piss with that article.


----------



## weepiper (Jan 29, 2013)

This appears to be a straight press release for Demos.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/...commends-benefit-cash-prepay-cards?CMP=twt_fd

One tiny little throwaway mention that the report was funded by Mastercard. No attempt to analyse why that might be important.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Jan 31, 2013)

I gave up with The Guardian when it became the mouthpiece of the grinning spinning blair and the rest of the nu-labour poodles and their tory cloned policies


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Jan 31, 2013)

kabbes said:


> Plus its crossword is a bit rubbish.


 

The whole of the Guardian is rubbish first its support of the grinning spinning blair's third way tory cloned nu-labour policies and now its limpet like attachment to the Lib Dems


----------



## fractionMan (Jan 31, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Victoria Coren can say whatever she likes as long as she says it in _that_ voice


 
dammit she's got me too


----------



## ymu (Jan 31, 2013)

I am also a fan of the female Coren. There are times she is way off beam, like most people, but she mostly sticks to poker and stuff she knows a bit about. One of the key failings of the Oxbridge types is that they assume they know more than they really do and are wiser than they really are and so don't put the work they should into research for an opinion piece. Coren doesn't have that Messiah thing going on.

Shame about the brother.


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2013)

> The Conservative party was a truly national party before it became seduced by Thatcherite economics



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/01/editorial-conservative-party-losing-the-plot


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 2, 2013)

> A poisoned vagina? What an intriguing yet stupid murder weapon


 







http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/31/poisoned-vagina-brazilian-woman


----------



## articul8 (Feb 5, 2013)

http://www.tucg.org.uk/2-uncategorised/242-nuj-overwhelming-vote-for-strike-action-at-guardian-observer


----------



## smokedout (Feb 5, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/datablog/video/2013/feb/05/benefits-skiver-striver-animated-video
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/datablog/video/2013/feb/05/benefits-skiver-striver-animated-video


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 5, 2013)

smokedout said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/datablog/video/2013/feb/05/benefits-skiver-striver-animated-video


Fucking hell that's bad. I mean to start with, what on Earth is the relevance of comparing spending with 1945?
Secondly, what's the point of quoting the £200bn figure when it's the total welfare bill and thus mostly taken up with payments to the employed or retired?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2013)

not the guardian, but...

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013...erts-to-islam-part-of-a-new-wave-of-feminism/
*Are female converts to Islam part of a new wave of feminism?*

For Jessica, grubby tabloids and the casual sexualisation of British society helped explain the irresistible appeal of puritanism for some British females. Accepting Islam was a way of her silently reproaching the cultural failure to improve the lot of women: “Why do you think so many women are becoming Muslim in this country? Because the ‘wonderful’ freedoms in the west have only enslaved us.”


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> not the guardian, but...
> 
> http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013...erts-to-islam-part-of-a-new-wave-of-feminism/
> *Are female converts to Islam part of a new wave of feminism?*
> ...


 
To be fair to her she does say that we get a lot right in Britain, and that it is the media's sexualisation of young girls that is a key driver for her and others, and I dunno while I think it's a strange reaction it's understandable imo to some extent.

Which is not to say the article is not shit or lazily written - it is.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2013)

yeah, it's worth exploring and i know of people who turned to strict versions of christianity and judaism for those reasons. It's still a really shit article though


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 9, 2013)

Hasnet Lais is a shameless proselytiser preying on weak middle class liberals in the media - and the bubble fucking love him for it.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 9, 2013)

I wonder if he has any stats for the "so many women converting"


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 9, 2013)

I bet he has, and i bet they're crap.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 9, 2013)

His game is making those media-liberals agree that_ those poor people from those backgrounds - they might as well go the magdalene for the benefit of everyone._


----------



## ymu (Feb 9, 2013)

A friend of mine converted before moving to the Lebanon. She was dismayed to find herself being mocked for wearing a headscarf by all her Muslim girly mates out there.


----------



## barney_pig (Feb 12, 2013)

http://www.tomforth.co.uk/guardiancomments/
Saw this on HP, but that doesn't mean it doesn't make me lol


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 12, 2013)

There only seem to be ten or so options in each field; they could have put a bit more effort into it.


----------



## barney_pig (Feb 12, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> There only seem to be ten or so options in each field; they could have put a bit more effort into it.


After trying it more than 5 times I agree, we have done better here.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> There only seem to be ten or so options in each field; they could have put a bit more effort into it.


Why bother? The Guardian doesn't.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 12, 2013)

A touch of nutmeg really bolsters the egg flavours in an otherwise traiditional Yorkshire pudding, which can really focus the mind on other issues. Isn't it amazing that we can find £30bn to spend on Trident but we can't afford even basic woodwind lessons for all Primary school pupils? We might as well adopt American-style gun laws and let the EDL take over government because this country's going to hell anyway.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 12, 2013)

My holiday home in Provence is hardly a luxury! Everyone needs to stop submitting to the processed-food mafia and get back to *real* nutrition. But that's just what we get when we continue to measure economic growth through GDP rather than focusing on freedom of expression and sustainability.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 13, 2013)

reps


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 13, 2013)

this thread's founded on an error, that the guardian is 'going down the pan'.

it's not.

it's always been utter shit.


----------



## love detective (Feb 13, 2013)

Beginners guide to Mogwai 

Absolutely shit, at least 10 years too late, and just utter rubbish and got twitter to write it


----------



## brogdale (Feb 15, 2013)

> Fears Britain may be heading towards an unprecedented triple-dip recession flared again as the government reported a _*surprise drop in high street spending*_ last month.


 
Tells you much about the socio-economic bubble of the fourth estate that they can report any surprise at this.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2013)

That's their economics _expert_ as well.


----------



## xenon (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm bored of this dip, tripple dip whatevers. It's a bath tub curve ressession. Might be a deep bath but still.

Negative growth.  Fucking economists.


----------



## belboid (Feb 15, 2013)

love detective said:


> Beginners guide to Mogwai
> 
> Absolutely shit, at least 10 years too late, and just utter rubbish and got twitter to write it


very odd selection of tracks


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 15, 2013)

never had any time for mogwai. Think they had a 'blur are a load of shit' t-shirt doin the rounds, that was at least amusing


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2013)

That itself should make you make some time for them. Very few magic pixies and shit so may not be your bag.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 17, 2013)

Good honest reporting here:



> The Tory candidate in the Eastleigh byelection was struggling to maintain a credible challenge for the Liberal Democrat stronghold


----------



## brogdale (Feb 17, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Good honest reporting here:


 
Thanks Butchers; such comedy gold that I've also posted it up in the by-election thread.


----------



## captainmission (Feb 17, 2013)

If things were different, they wouldn't be the same - reports guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/16/meteorite-uk



> The meteorite that caused devastation in the Urals on Friday could have struck Britain if it had entered the atmosphere at only a slightly different time of day, astronomers revealed yesterday.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 17, 2013)

captainmission said:


> If things were different, they wouldn't be the same - reports guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/feb/16/meteorite-uk


Yes a proper non-story. Perhaps if it had occurred in a parallel universe it might have been news. Maybe they meant to report it there. My mum disagreed with me but then again they are going to vote LD in the Eastleigh bye-election. There is no hope.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 17, 2013)

to be fair the BBC ran that "story" as well


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 25, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/feb/25/why-rennard-claims-surfaced-now

Michael White bending over backwards to dig clegg out of the 'grope gate' shit. It was just 'knee squeezing' you see? And its cos the nasty media have got it in for the unfairly maligned nick.

I think he did a similar 'leave the politicians alone!' bit of puffery during pleb-gate.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 25, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/feb/25/why-rennard-claims-surfaced-now
> 
> Michael White bending over backwards to dig clegg out of the 'grope gate' shit. It was just 'knee squeezing' you see? And its cos the nasty media have got it in for the unfairly maligned nick.
> 
> I think he did a similar 'leave the politicians alone!' bit of puffery during pleb-gate.


What great timing - an hour after an allegation too serious to publish has been put into the public view.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 25, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/feb/25/why-rennard-claims-surfaced-now
> 
> Michael White bending over backwards to dig clegg out of the 'grope gate' shit. It was just 'knee squeezing' you see? And its cos the nasty media have got it in for the unfairly maligned nick.
> 
> I think he did a similar 'leave the politicians alone!' bit of puffery during pleb-gate.


 
Quite.

This is piss poor..



> Rennard – an official few voters will have heard of – left his job as party chief executive in 2009 on health grounds. Perhaps the party should have been more robust in its response to complaints. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.But as far as we can tell, Rennard's alleged would-be conquests claim they were upset but not assaulted.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 25, 2013)

Note their relegation of the story on the internet frontpage.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not their relagation of the story on the internet frontpage.


 
Yep, gay cardinal & iffy Italian election are more newsworthy, obs.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 25, 2013)

_Smell blood? Hide it, quick! _

A guardian editors news instinct.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 25, 2013)

Whereas C4 going for it...

Even the sober Gary Gibbon outlines the conspiracy of silence and puts the boot into Clegg:-



> The truth is that in addition to the rumours of allegations about inappropriate behaviour (strongly denied by Lord Rennard) the Lib Dem leader, Nick Clegg, was amongst a growing number of figures in the party who thought Lord Rennard was past his sell-by date as a campaigning wizard.
> 
> Nick Clegg in his response to the crisis has probably made things even worse for himself.
> 
> ...


 
Ouch!


----------



## ymu (Feb 26, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/26/eastleigh-worse-kind-of-westminster-charade

In which Toynbee manages to trivialise serious allegations of sexual misconduct whilst patronising the electorate and blaming us for not voting for AV.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2013)

christ she's pompous


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2013)

ymu said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/26/eastleigh-worse-kind-of-westminster-charade
> 
> In which Toynbee manages to trivialise serious allegations of sexual misconduct whilst patronising the electorate and blaming us for not voting for AV.


_No No,you're doing it all wrong!!! _


----------



## teqniq (Feb 28, 2013)

Iraq must not blind us to Blair's skill and seriousness


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 28, 2013)

had to stop reading when I got to this massive fucking facepalm:




> The historical aspect of the Blair era matters because it has become fashionable to treat it merely as a continuum from the Thatcher era which preceded it. This simply was not true. The Blair era – and we are really talking here about the Blair-Brown era – was much more an attempt to reassert social values and new forms of solidarity in the aftermath of Thatcher than an attempt simply to embrace Thatcher's possessive individualism




so which is it, is martin kettle thick as pigshit or dishonest?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 28, 2013)

teqniq said:
			
		

> Iraq must not blind us to Blair's skill and seriousness



I feel genuine nausea.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 1, 2013)

The Guardian homesite links to the Eastleigh bye-election story.


> *Senior Tory raises questions over PM's leadership*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lookslike they've got Wintour back to cheer on the Liberals.


----------



## killer b (Mar 1, 2013)

'lib dems eye marginal tory seats'


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 1, 2013)

All they'll be doing is eyeing them tho


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 1, 2013)

New definition of pragmatism = getting caught being a bunch of liars, thieves and sex pests.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 1, 2013)

Comment on O'Farrell's piece claiming the reaction to the dead Fatch 'revelation' caused him electoral harm...



> John - you didn't perform so poorly because of the 2 minute hate. You stand for a party that has no ideas. No purpose. No credibility and no principles.
> No amount of jokes and nostalgia can disguise that fact.




Was that one of you lot?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 2, 2013)

Just really really bad anti-american writing based on the same sort of assumptions it think that it rejects.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 2, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Just really really bad anti-american writing based on the same sort of assumptions it think that it rejects.


 
Pathetic stuff.

Of course the joke is on the author, Kevin Mitchell, who appears to think that not knowing who won some running race in the Olympics reveals a woeful lack of world-historical awareness.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 3, 2013)

Wow:



> Where voters have not "kicked out the bums", the big EU rulers have acted instead, with Berlin, Paris, Brussels, and the European Central Bank in Frankfurt conspiring to bring down elected prime ministers Silvio Berlusconi in Italy and George Papandreou in Greece.


----------



## Favelado (Mar 3, 2013)

What an absolutely pathetic thing to do an article on.​http://www.guardian.co.uk/fashion/fashion-blog/2013/mar/03/pope-benedict-true-legacy-fashion-sense​


> *Pope Benedict: his true legacy is his fashion sense*
> The former pontiff has had his critics over aspects of his teachings – but style-wise he dragged the papacy out of a 70s time warp


​​


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 3, 2013)

Favelado said:


> What an absolutely pathetic thing to do an article on.​http://www.guardian.co.uk/fashion/fashion-blog/2013/mar/03/pope-benedict-true-legacy-fashion-sense​
> ​​


I'm not sure you've grasped the central concept behind this thread, which is that the guardian is crap. With that in mind, it is no surprise such articles as this appear within it.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 3, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm not sure you've grasped the central concept behind this thread, which is that the guardian is crap. With that in mind, it is no surprise such articles as this appear within it.


 
He didn`t express any surprise, fool.


----------



## Winter (Mar 3, 2013)

Which newspaper, if any, would be the newspaper of choice for the on-the-pulse Urban 75er?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 3, 2013)

Morning Star and Workers Girder


----------



## Winter (Mar 3, 2013)

Ah!   I didn't think the Morning Star existed any more.  The Workers Girder sounds an interesting read.   I do hope they have an iPad app!


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 3, 2013)

I saw a headline in the guardian at the weekend saying "Karl Marx would have agreed with Michael Gove and so do I"


----------



## Favelado (Mar 3, 2013)

Winter said:


> Ah! I didn't think the Morning Star existed any more. The Workers Girder sounds an interesting read. I do hope they have an iPad app!


 
AyePad. It only works in the North.


----------



## Libertad (Mar 3, 2013)

Zing


----------



## Winter (Mar 3, 2013)

Zinged truly!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 3, 2013)

phildwyer said:


> He didn`t express any surprise, fool.


I didn't say he did you thick  malodorous cunt


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 3, 2013)

discourse is of high standards tonight


----------



## Winter (Mar 3, 2013)

Is it normally better?  I do hope that I've not lowered the standard expected.


----------



## Combustible (Mar 5, 2013)

I will just leave this here.

"After Eastleigh, the Lib Dems have finally found the fire in their belly"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/05/eastleigh-gloating-lib-dems-seize-chance


----------



## ymu (Mar 5, 2013)

"After Eastleigh, the Lib Dems have found an excuse to continue deluding themselves"


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 5, 2013)

Combustible said:


> I will just leave this here.
> 
> "After Eastleigh, the Lib Dems have finally found the fire in their belly"
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/05/eastleigh-gloating-lib-dems-seize-chance


That piece is unbelievable for a number reasons - the level of self-delusion it reveals, the contempt she has for the public, what her real politics are and what they are motivated by, her lack of connection with or understanding of public opinion, her inability to read things politically, her immense fucking..._wrongness_. I think that one has wound me up more than the Kettle one on Iraq.


----------



## articul8 (Mar 5, 2013)

remarkable, not least because it's published on the day after they voted against their own conference policy to create secret courts - showing just how little they are prepared to stand up for even core 'liberal' values, let alone opposing tory cuts.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Mar 5, 2013)

.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Mar 5, 2013)

aren't they running at a massive loss and days are numbered?
h


----------



## killer b (Mar 5, 2013)

yeah - 4 years of reserves at current losses, so they're fucked if they can't pull something out of the bag.


----------



## MillwallShoes (Mar 5, 2013)

killer b said:


> yeah - 4 years of reserves at current losses, so they're fucked if they can't pull something out of the bag.


 
they do have a massive online presence, mind.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 5, 2013)

from that article


> Simon Hughes agrees, demanding councils be allowed to borrow what they like against their own assets for new building.


I dont know the details, but this doesn't sound like a good idea. isn't this the equivalent of a second mortgage? What happens if repayments cant be made?


----------



## ymu (Mar 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> That piece is unbelievable for a number reasons - the level of self-delusion it reveals, the contempt she has for the public, what her real politics are and what they are motivated by, her lack of connection with or understanding of public opinion, her inability to read things politically, her immense fucking..._wrongness_. I think that one has wound me up more than the Kettle one on Iraq.


The title has changed. My tab and the url suggests "Enough of the post-Eastleigh gloating. Now [the Lib Dems must seize their chance]

Toynbee is a fool on this kind of stuff, no question, but there's an editorial hand involved in making it quite so ridiculous.


----------



## ymu (Mar 5, 2013)

ska invita said:


> from that article
> 
> I dont know the details, but this doesn't sound like a good idea. isn't this the equivalent of a second mortgage? What happens if repayments cant be made?


I don't know what interest rates councils get charged but IMO it would be a great deal more sensible for the government to borrow it at their current zero real interest rate (free money because there is nowhere else for scaredy investors to go whilst the government is busy trashing the economy).

It doesn't add to the debt when secured against assets, social rents pay off the mortgage over a much shorter period than the government owns the property for (and rise with inflation where the debt repayments do not), and the profit is pocketed by the taxpayers (aka "us"). We all benefit from cheaper housing due to the knock on effect on rents and house-prices, short-term landlords who have to charge a fortune to stay in business get driven out of the market, and there would be a massive rise in spending power because the money saved on housing costs would be spent on things that actual productive people with jobs need to produce, allowing them to spend their earnings and make sure we still have a job too.

Capitalism is one massive con.


----------



## killer b (Mar 5, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> they do have a massive online presence, mind.


which is currently a drain on their resources, not a money spinner. the key to whether they survive (as with all of them, in the end) is making online pay. they don't yet know how.


----------



## cemertyone (Mar 6, 2013)

Winter said:


> Which newspaper, if any, would be the newspaper of choice for the on-the-pulse Urban 75er?


 
The Andersonstown news...is the radical news paper of choice for those in the know..


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 6, 2013)

cemertyone said:


> The Andersonstown news...is the radical news paper of choice for those in the know..


 
I once interviewed their columnist Squinter for a market research survey on soft drinks. He wrote me up in the column the next week - apparently I gave him the worst interrogation he'd had since he was in Castlereagh.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 6, 2013)

Kettle again (and i'm not pointing out the chavez stuff here):



> And it is also a lot easier if you win your elections, as Chávez generally did, with large majorities. He once claimed that the lesson he drew from Allende's Chile was the need to defend the socialist revolution with arms. In fact this was typical bravado. The real lesson was to win and hold a majority. Allende won one election with 36% support and died from bullet wounds as his palace was stormed by the armed forces. Chávez won four more or less honest presidential elections with, successively, 56%, 60%, 63% and 54% of the vote and died in his bed.


 
( Of course A man of grace. Cameron has been good for Britain - this is his level of biographical analysis - need i say, an oxbridge boy?)


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 6, 2013)

Watts pimpery.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 6, 2013)

Now, i can't find out for sure but, did this man go to private school and oxbridge judging from his pic and job (Guardian's chief political correspondent)?


----------



## Favelado (Mar 6, 2013)

Winter said:


> Which newspaper, if any, would be the newspaper of choice for the on-the-pulse Urban 75er?


 
The Guardian. It's driving me mad but it's still the one I go to.


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

I agree, Favelado.   It's very much up its own arse, but look at the alternatives?   They don't bear thinking about.  Or in the case of the tabloids, bare thinking about.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Why are you people on this thread? Just make one saying oh i'm in despair at the guardian. The last two posts are another reason why the guardian is shit.


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm on the thread because its about a newspaper I read on a six day a week basis.   Why are you on it?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> I'm on the thread because its about a newspaper I read on a six day a week basis.


 
why?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> I'm on the thread because its about a newspaper I read on a six day a week basis. Why are you on it?


Because it's shit. That's what the thread is about - not but _i do still love it so_ stuff. Post about it being shit, about it going down the pan, about it being "very much up its own arse" not stuff about OMG other people use other papers (or news sources). Don't william the thread. We have someone who comes in for that.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Because it's shit. That's what the thread is about - not but _i do still love it so_ stuff. Post about it being shit, about it going down the pan, about it being "very much up its own arse" not stuff about OMG other people use other papers (or news sources). Don't william the thread. We have someone who comes in for that.


 
Are you Hall Monitor now?


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

If you don't mind, and frankly even if you do, I shall post what I like about the Guardian and will continue to do so unless I'm told by the moderators that it contravenes some rule or other.   It's not as good a paper as it used to be, but its still the best national broadsheet that we've got, which maybe not saying much.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

And another thread he has a _wah wah i was banned_ tantrum on. A grown man. A grown wreck of a man. Keep walking johnny.


----------



## Favelado (Mar 7, 2013)

It's just a thread on the internet. Let me write what i want. It was only a few words anyway. I very recently posted how much I hated them for publishing a papal fashion retrospective if that appeases you.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> If you don't mind, and frankly even if you do, I shall post what I like about the Guardian and will continue to do so unless I'm told by the moderators that it contravenes some rule or other. It's not as good a paper as it used to be, but its still the best national broadsheet that we've got, which maybe not saying much.


Why don't you not do it on a thread designed to specifically giving examples of how shit it is? Why would it take you so much effort not to post on a thread designed to illustrate a particular thing? Do you go on threads giving particular recipies saying that you think they're shit?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> And another thread he has a _wah wah i was banned_ tantrum on. A grown man. A grown wreck of a man. Keep walking johnny.


 
Lots of advice from butchers - how to post, what to post, who should stay, who should go.

Also, re your first line: looks like it's time to get some reading glasses.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Seriously, a proper grown up 29 year old man crying for two weeks that he was banned for what, one night?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Seriously, a proper grown up 29 year old man crying for two weeks that he was banned for what, one night?


 
Dude: time to put down the bong. You're starting to hallucinate.


----------



## Favelado (Mar 7, 2013)

Isn't this developing off-topic bun-fight worse than anything else that could happen to the thread? How about I only write nasty things about the Guardian in this thread and everyone else shuts the fuck up and stops bickering about bans or whatever other stupid bullshit there is? Problem solved.


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

I will post what I want on this site about the Guardian considering that is the topic being discussed, with or without your permission, butchersapron.   It's certainly not the paper it was but it's the best of a bad lot so far as I am concerned.  I'm sorry if you have a problem with that - take it up with the moderators, if you do.  What newspaper would you recommend?


----------



## Favelado (Mar 7, 2013)

Here's an atrocious piece of Suzanne Moore drivel. Lay into that.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/06/sleep-not-new-sex-insomnia


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> I will post what I want on this site about the Guardian considering that is the topic being discussed, with or without your permission, butchersapron. It's certainly not the paper it was but it's the best of a bad lot so far as I am concerned. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that - take it up with the moderators, if you do. What newspaper would you recommend?


You can post what you want - stop fucking whining. I said that you shouldn't. And well done on misidentifying the topic under discussion.


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

You're the one whining.  I'm just saying that they are the best of a bad lot.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Isn't this developing off-topic bun-fight worse than anything else that could happen to the thread? How about I only write nasty things about the Guardian in this thread and everyone else shuts the fuck up and stops bickering about bans or whatever other stupid bullshit there is? Problem solved.


Post on, JC3 is still going to follow around the people who he thinks caused his shocking outrageous politically motivated unfair egregious few hour ban, it's got nothing to do with the particular thread.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> You're the one whining. I'm just saying that they are the best of a bad lot.


I'm saying they're not - then you're whining that i'm shutting down your free speech and saying i should take it up with the mods. You whining guardian shit. This is why this thread exists.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Post on, JC3 is still going to .


 

If I didn't exist, you'd have to invent me. Your Id would demand it of you.


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I'm saying they're not - then you're whining that i'm shutting down your free speech and saying i should take it up with the mods. You whining guardian shit. This is why this thread exists.



Don't be ridiculous.   You are sounding positively overwrought.   I'm still hoping that you will suggest a better national daily newspaper.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> Don't be ridiculous. You are sounding positively overwrought. I'm still hoping that you will suggest a better national daily newspaper.


Why would i? What's that got to do with this thread? Can you explain how it might?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why would i? What's that got to do with this thread? Can you explain how it might?


 
People who don't feel an overwhelming need to shove everything into tiny boxes in an effort to maintain order would understand the connection between his question and the thread.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

A 29 year old man. I tell you no lie.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> A 29 year old man. I tell you no lie.


 

p.s. is 'wreck of a man' your new weekly buzz phrase? I note you've used it twice in the past couple of days, about a couple of different posters.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> People who don't feel an overwhelming need to shove everything into tiny boxes in an effort to maintain order would understand the connection between his question and the thread.


Seriously, the stations of poor johnny's cross, really not interested. You clearly are. As half the threads live demonstrate.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> p.s. is 'wreck of a man' your new weekly buzz phrase? I note you've used it twice in the past couple of days, about a couple of different posters.


No, i've used it solely about you. A 29 year old man so enraged at being banned off a board that he acts like you have for the next week. Enjoy your martyrdom.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> A 29 year old man. I tell you no lie.


 
p.s. Should I ever visit England again, you'd be one of the first I'd seek out, with a bottle of tequila under my arm - you do drink, don't you? I figure that at the end of that meeting, we'd emerge either with a warm handshake, or with black eyes and bloodied teeth. Either way, it would definitely be a memorable couple of hours.


----------



## Favelado (Mar 7, 2013)




----------



## Belushi (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> It's not as good a paper as it used to be


 
When was that? When it supported the South in the American Civil War? recommended voting out the Attlee Government? Supported the foundation of Israel? Blamed the victims of Bloody Sunday? Supported the SDP? etc etc etc.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> No, i've used it solely about you. A 29 year old man so enraged at being banned off a board that he acts like you have for the next week. Enjoy your martyrdom.


 
I'll even bring flowers with the tequila. What's your pleasure - roses, or daisies?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron  You aren't responding: are you big enough to share a pint, should the opportunity arise?


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

Goodness me, it sounds as if the Beano is the paper of choice here.


----------



## shagnasty (Mar 7, 2013)

We slag off the guardian maybe we hope for something better from them,but the other papers have their fair share of crap.it so depressing


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

Well quite.  The Guardian gets this big kicking, mostly deserved I might add, but really - would you rather read the Times, the Independent or the Telegraph? 

On a thread that slags off something, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say it's the best of bad lot.

I am still waiting for someone to suggest a less terrible national newspaper.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> Well quite. The Guardian gets this big kicking, mostly deserved I might add, but really - would you rather read the Times, the Independent or the Telegraph?
> 
> On a thread that slags off something, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say it's the best of bad lot.
> 
> I am still waiting for someone to suggest a less terrible national newspaper.


I think the Telegraph is a better newspaper. Sometimes nicknamed the Torygraph, it is clear where it stands on economics and politics and although it has dumbed down a bit it is still a fairly serious newspaper. I enjoy the letters pages. I am on the left and prefer to read a solidly right wing paper so as to be up to speed on what they think. The Guardian is just tedious and too vaguely Liberal to be of interest to me.


----------



## Winter (Mar 7, 2013)

About four or five weeks ago I came to the conclusion that the Observer was quite intolerable, so in a moment of madness I thought "lets try the Sunday Telegraph".  It's just unspeakable!   

What Sunday paper to buy?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:
			
		

> Well quite.  The Guardian gets this big kicking, mostly deserved I might add, but really - would you rather read the Times, the Independent or the Telegraph?
> 
> On a thread that slags off something, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say it's the best of bad lot.
> 
> I am still waiting for someone to suggest a less terrible national newspaper.



On s thread that is designed to do a) I'm sitting here waiting for it to do b) and complaining that it only does a).


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Why oh why won't someone say the Guardian is relatively the best paper.!!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 7, 2013)

Its coverage of middlebrow television is second to none.


----------



## _angel_ (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> Well quite. The Guardian gets this big kicking, mostly deserved I might add, but really - would you rather read the Times, the Independent or the Telegraph?


Yeah I'd take the Telegraph.
The Independent is another due a good kicking tbf.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 7, 2013)

I thought this thread was supposed to be about the Guardian being shit, not about how it is the least worst paper or about weird fantasists being bannned for 4 hours?


----------



## cemertyone (Mar 7, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> I once interviewed their columnist Squinter for a market research survey on soft drinks. He wrote me up in the column the next week - apparently I gave him the worst interrogation he'd had since he was in Castlereagh.


 
Brillant......


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 7, 2013)

cemertyone said:


> Brillant......


 
I met him after a full saturday of walking around Andystown in the rain. . . by that point I was more or less zombified. . .


----------



## scifisam (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> A 29 year old man. I tell you no lie.


 
Is that a quote from somewhere? Because it makes no sense otherwise. I can't see any anger from anyone except you here, by the way. "Tantrum," heh.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Is that a quote from somewhere? Because it makes no sense otherwise. I can't see any anger from anyone except you here, by the way. "Tantrum," heh.


Context is all sam. If you ain't got it you ain't got it.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 7, 2013)

i thought canuck was in his 50s.


----------



## ymu (Mar 7, 2013)

He is. I'm assuming it is more cryptic than that, but I have no idea what he's on about either. Some kind of reference, apparently.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 7, 2013)

Will Self demands real tories.


----------



## Santino (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> Well quite. The Guardian gets this big kicking, mostly deserved I might add, but really - would you rather read the Times, the Independent or the Telegraph?
> 
> On a thread that slags off something, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to say it's the best of bad lot.
> 
> I am still waiting for someone to suggest a less terrible national newspaper.


Which is the best condiment in a shit sandwich?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> You're the one whining. I'm just saying that they are the best of a bad lot.


 
That sort of depends on whether you believe that the politics they propagate make "the best of a bad lot". If you do believe that _The Guardian_ does so, then obviously your faith in what they say will be undimmed. If you look beyond their liberalist view of the world and their accommodation of neoliberalism, then the only conclusion that you can arrive at is that _The Guardian_ is much of a muchness with the rest of "the bad lot", the difference being in the language they couch their accommodationism in.

I'm not at all opposed to people reading _The Guardian_ (or any other newspaper), but I'd like to think that their readership were capable of a little reflexivity as to *why* it's their preferred "journal of record".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Post on, JC3 is still going to follow around the people who he thinks caused his shocking outrageous politically motivated unfair egregious few hour ban, it's got nothing to do with the particular thread.


 
He got banned for being a cunt. If he can't accept that, it's a reflection of his inability to be honest with himself, let alone others.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 7, 2013)

Winter said:


> Don't be ridiculous. You are sounding positively overwrought. I'm still hoping that you will suggest a better national daily newspaper.


 
Think of our modern-day newspapers and broadcast news media as competing retail outlets who are all compelled to buy their "supplies" (stories) from the same wholesaler. This is the actual situation most of our mainstream news media exist in.
Given the above, "better" becomes a matter not of veracity or commitment to political or journalistic ideals, but purely a matter of presentation. _The Guardian_ is "better" than _The Times_ for some readers because it *presents* the news differently to _The Times_, and _vice versa_.


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (Mar 10, 2013)

Anyone know why you can comment on some articles but not on others? Is it for legal reasons?


----------



## treelover (Mar 10, 2013)

Belushi said:


> When was that? When it supported the South in the American Civil War? recommended voting out the Attlee Government? Supported the foundation of Israel? Blamed the victims of Bloody Sunday? Supported the SDP? etc etc etc.


 

Wow, I knew none of that, started reading in the mid eighties, kept me sane in the Thatcher years tbh...


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 10, 2013)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> p.s. Should I ever visit England again, you'd be one of the first I'd seek out, with a bottle of tequila under my arm - you do drink, don't you? I figure that at the end of that meeting, we'd emerge either with a warm handshake, or with black eyes and bloodied teeth. Either way, it would definitely be a memorable couple of hours.


 
Maybe it'd be throbbing, petroleum jellied sphincters and an entirely new perspective rather than black eyes or bloodied teeth.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Mar 10, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why oh why won't someone say the Guardian is relatively the best paper.!!


 

Is the Guardian relatively the best paper....Er Sixteen years of being the loyal mouthpiece of the grinning spinning blair and the nu-labour troy clones Then Cleggnocchio and the Fib democrats should answer that question


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Mar 10, 2013)

That sounds more like my visit with you.


----------



## Firky (Mar 17, 2013)

Pearoast?


----------



## sihhi (Mar 18, 2013)

An unbelievable set of interviews: 



> Moving to an NGO wasn't always easy. First there's the vernacular. I would get asked what I thought of the rights-based approach to development? I had no idea. I could tell you about the delta on CDSs, though. Also, you make sacrifices. Before taking this job I went on holiday to Vietnam, staying in very nice hotels ... I realised that this would no longer be possible, I had said goodbye to that kind of lifestyle.


 


> There are a lot more people like us making the change than outsiders might think. Oxfam's Rob Nash did the same as me. He left Lehman Brothers where he was on the stock-lending desk, to work in the non-profit sector on financial aspects of sustainable development and poverty reduction. One colleague at JP Morgan became a maths teacher, another at BNP Paribas set up a retirement home. Also, there are far more people inside corporations and banks who want to make the world a better place. So why don't they join Oxfam or other NGOs? One reason might be the golden handcuffs. They've settled into the lifestyle, sent their children to expensive schools ... Neither of us have kids.


 


> At the same we are running a series of seminars for Oxfam employees called "banks, bankers, and banking", to improve the internal understanding of the sector.


 



> We have to work with corporations that want to change, but even more so, we must call out those who don't.


 


> NGOs could help set-off internal debates in these companies, help shape the internal political economy of these corporations. We must empower insiders. Provide them with evidence to help them in their internal battles, work out how we can best push from the outside to help those on the inside. We need to tap into internal debates in companies.


 


> For a number of years now Oxfam has worked with parliamentarians to help them see what life is like for poor communities. Why not do the same for bankers? That would be quite something, imagine twenty white guys in a refugee camp in east Congo, all of them connected to trade in the minerals mined there? I wonder about the impact of that.


 
Here's to idiots all round!


----------



## JimW (Mar 18, 2013)

sihhi said:


> An unbelievable set of interviews:
> 
> Here's to idiots all round!


 
I met a load of those NGO careerist filth types when I was a volunteer with development charity here and then worked at a mag writing about the sector ("corporate social responsibility" too), it was a big part of what made me face up to what I'd always known was true, that it's not a substitute for proper political change, and get out.


----------



## sihhi (Mar 18, 2013)

JimW said:


> I met a load of those NGO careerist filth types when I was a volunteer with development charity here and then worked at a mag writing about the sector ("corporate social responsibility" too), it was a big part of what made me face up to what I'd always known was true, that it's not a substitute for proper political change, and get out.


 
These types are just the worst. These finance sector professionals just walk into new jobs - devil knows how. 

The guy admits that after he has secured his new job, he doesn't have a clue about a popular rights approach to development (ie in crude terms, less awareness than an ordinary GCSE Geography student), but he still wins, they all win. ((middle class))


----------



## JimW (Mar 18, 2013)

sihhi said:


> These types are just the worst. These finance sector professionals just walk into new jobs - devil knows how.
> 
> The guy admits that after he has secured his new job, he doesn't have a clue about a popular rights approach to development (ie in crude terms, less awareness than an ordinary GCSE Geography student), but he still wins, they all win. ((middle class))


Remember when first hearing about "participatory development" thinking "only the middle class would need a whole theory to realise that poor people aren't thick or clueless about their situation."


----------



## sihhi (Mar 18, 2013)

JimW said:


> Remember when first hearing about "participatory development" thinking "only the middle class would need a whole theory to realise that poor people aren't thick or clueless about their situation."


 
Likewise only the middle-class would think middle-class people training the poor in financial security will help the poor not be poor.
Only the middle-class would think sending a party of powerful middle-class people (politicians and bankers) on holiday to Africa would help people in Africa. The arrogance of winning.


----------



## JimW (Mar 18, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Likewise only the middle-class would think middle-class people training the poor in financial security will help the poor not be poor.
> Only the middle-class would think sending a party of powerful middle-class people (politicians and bankers) on holiday to Africa would help people in Africa. The arrogance of winning.


We had a microfinance component in the projects we were doing, which ditched most of the dogma and basically ended up being a way for village women to buy piglets on tick to rear and make some money on; later attended various microfinance conferences etc. and realised it really is full of free market headbangers who think it's just a case of providing the bootstraps so everyone can pull themselves up by magic - where we worked lots of villages were three hours walk up a mountain from the nearest road and further than that from a market. You must have heard the term "development tourism" too - like an extended gap year where middle class types get to do something touchy-feely amongst the exotics. Even more interesting was meeting local technicians etc. who helped with the training on microhydro power projects and the like - they said they'd been out and about doing just this sort of peer training during China's collective era but rarely got a chance to get out of the county town post-reform as their bosses concentrated on monetising stuff (rural energy office selling solar water heaters, for example) and only gave projects to political clients in the village who nine times out of ten were the best-off, best connected anyway.


----------



## sihhi (Mar 18, 2013)

JimW said:


> We had a microfinance component in the projects we were doing, which ditched most of the dogma and basically ended up being a way for village women to buy piglets on tick to rear and make some money on; later attended various microfinance conferences etc. and realised it really is full of free market headbangers who think it's just a case of providing the bootstraps so everyone can pull themselves up by magic - where we worked lots of villages were three hours walk up a mountain from the nearest road and further than that from a market. You must have heard the term "development tourism" too - like an extended gap year where middle class types get to do something touchy-feely amongst the exotics. Even more interesting was meeting local technicians etc. who helped with the training on microhydro power projects and the like - they said they'd been out and about doing just this sort of peer training during China's collective era but rarely got a chance to get out of the county town post-reform as their bosses concentrated on monetising stuff (rural energy office selling solar water heaters, for example) and only gave projects to political clients in the village who nine times out of ten were the best-off, best connected anyway.


 
It's like "poorism" when you pay money to a local company (though usually run by a Westerner natch) to do tours of poor places:






Except with "development tourism" your costs are paid by taxpayers back home or people who donate to charities.


China stuff sounds important. Do have any solid analysis of China's campaign to "open the West"/"develop the West"? It looks an attempt to prolong the boom, by formalising rural relationships and giving individuals loans (for machinery hire or purchase) to sustain demand in the industrial sector. You should start a China thread - or at least a recommended China reading by internet.

Also: The Adam Smith Institute helped reorder the Chinese civil service in the 1990s - as part of development programme. LOL!


----------



## JimW (Mar 18, 2013)

sihhi said:


> ...
> 
> China stuff sounds important. Do have any solid analysis of China's campaign to "open the West"/"develop the West"? It looks an attempt to prolong the boom, by formalising rural relationships and giving individuals loans (for machinery hire or purchase) to sustain demand in the industrial sector. You should start a China thread - or at least a recommended China reading by internet.
> 
> Also: The Adam Smith Institute helped reorder the Chinese civil service in the 1990s - as part of development programme. LOL!


Would have to think on a considered reply to the "Go West: strategy thing, but it is well seen that so much of the money ended up going to Chongqing (saw some figures that said there was more money PPP in five years than the Marshall Plan!) which was already a major metropolis and was going to get included in the next wave of capital investment either way (though obv this helped create the "favourable conditions" just as the tax breaks etc in Shenzhen did back when).
Not just the Adam Smith thing - we met various now senior Chinese officials who'd been cherry picked way back in the 80s while still up-and-coming grad students by the Ford Foundation to go off to the US and do an economics masters in the Chicago kool-aid.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2013)

_Cyprus crisis deepens as MPs reject savings tax_

_Deepens?_


----------



## sihhi (Mar 19, 2013)

Fascinating article from TV presenter Rick Edwards, who is now their expert on male textiles:

_A while back I lost my lovely blue Comme des Garçons wallet. It's infuriating to misplace any wallet, but I had huge affection for this one. So I bought an identical replacement. Subsequently, the wallet that I had insisted to the police had been "stolen from my pocket" turned up at Baker Street lost property, all contents intact. This meant two things: 1) I had to apologise to the police for wasting their time, and 2) I had two identical wallets._

_But it's nevertheless worth thinking about splashing out on a far-from-ostentatious Uniform Wares watch, or even a minimalist Braun (because it's always a pleasure to have a watch that matches your electric toothbrush)._

This is the planet the Guardian now lives on.

_Are you a US student struggling to pay back college debt? Join our source network by having your say, and you'll help us tell a more nuanced and personal story of debt_
_From Girls to Veep: US TV's most stylish characters From Selina Meyer's vice-presidential wardrobe in Veep to April Ludgate's geek chic in Parks & Recreation – US TV stars are offering great fashion inspiration_

_The Princess of Wales gown auction: which of Diana's dresses can you buy? - in pictures_


----------



## MillwallShoes (Mar 19, 2013)

readership of under 200k now. i give it about ten years.


----------



## ymu (Mar 19, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> readership of under 200k now.


And they need the ones the advertisers can sell expensive tat to.


----------



## _angel_ (Mar 19, 2013)

ymu said:


> And they need the ones the advertisers can sell expensive tat to.



At the same time as still trying to appeal to social workers and teachers whose income is in no where near that ballpark.

God knows why my parents still buy it!


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2013)

bloke i used to work with in the warehouse (earning £7.50 an hour, initially £7.00) used to be a lecturer, brougt it in every day, god knows how he afforded it


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 19, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> At the same time as still trying to appeal to social workers and teachers whose income is in no where near that ballpark.
> 
> God knows why my parents still buy it!


 

still the biggest advertiser for pub/sec jobs iirc


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2013)

*Osborne to promise even deeper spending cuts after next election*

*Surely: **Osborne promises even deeper spending cuts after next election*


----------



## ymu (Mar 20, 2013)

It was a pre-budget article, not a post-budget one. The Evening Standard got into trouble for pre-publishing the whole lot, but they all do preview articles of the main points on the morning of the budget speech.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2013)

It's their headline *now*, on the internet, that thing that you can change - how many hours later?


----------



## ymu (Mar 20, 2013)

I don't think they routinely change stories once they become retrospective and I wouldn't want them to either. It is still being grabbed by their content management system as a recent story on the budget, that's all.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2013)

It's their *front page*, we are not on about _the story_. That it is - in this day and age - is an example of pan going.


----------



## ymu (Mar 20, 2013)

Newspaper puts article from the morning edition on front page of website shock!

Bit of a stretch.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2013)

Newspaper doesn't change it all fuxking day. It took what 8 hours. This is an example of non-pan adventures?


----------



## ymu (Mar 20, 2013)

They should not change the original article. It is in their cluster of recent articles about the budget. It's an example of how modern newspapers organise their online content, nothing else.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2013)

ymu said:


> They should not change the original article. It is in their cluster of recent articles about the budget. It's an example of how modern newspapers organise their online content, nothing else.


Can you point to someone saying that they should change the original article? If not, why are you saying this? It's been pointed out twice now that this was highlighted as an example of their pan going headlines. Take a step back. If you can.


----------



## Firky (Mar 20, 2013)

Feeling better, butchers, back on the war horse I see!


----------



## ymu (Mar 20, 2013)

Too cryptic for me. As you were.


----------



## scifisam (Mar 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Can you point to someone saying that they should change the original article? If not, why are you saying this? It's been pointed out twice now that this was highlighted as an example of their pan going headlines. Take a step back. If you can.



You said the newspaper doesn't change it all fucking day. Does that mean you think they should republish it as a new article with a slightly changed headline?

What's the "pan" thing? I don't understand what you mean by the use of that word.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 21, 2013)

scifisam said:


> You said the newspaper doesn't change it all fucking day. Does that mean you think they should republish it as a new article with a slightly changed headline?
> 
> What's the "pan" thing? I don't understand what you mean by the use of that word.


I have repeatedly said that i was not referring to the content of the article, but the content _of the headline that they chose to use for their internet front page_ hours hours and hours after it had been rendered redundant and could have been changed to something reflecting reality with a few seconds thought and work. 

Pan? _Why the guardian is going down the pan._


----------



## scifisam (Mar 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I have repeatedly said that i was not referring to the content of the article, but the content _of the headline that they chose to use for their internet front page_ hours hours and hours after it had been rendered redundant and could have been changed to something reflecting reality with a few seconds thought and work.
> 
> Pan? _Why the guardian is going down the pan._



Ah. I count the headline as part of the article. Get you now about the use of "pan," doh.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 21, 2013)

This has been there for a while now as well:

ECB bailout ultimatum deepends Cyprus woes


----------



## Favelado (Mar 27, 2013)

Yet another update on Europe's second tallest skyscraper stuck on the homepage. Give it a fucking rest or change the name of the paper to The Shardian and get it over with.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes...feb/01/view-from-top-shard-london-interactive


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 27, 2013)

They had one earlier saying



> 15 000 UK teachers short


 
And i thought for a second that Gove's plans had taken a more serious turn.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 29, 2013)

BREAKING NEWS
Front page news:





*Pippa Middleton offers Asian-themed dinner tips in Waitrose magazine debut*

*First column provides recipes and aesthetic suggestions such as flowers to 'soften angular Asian-style tableware'*







Should there be any lingering doubts as to Waitrose's magazine's commitment to fuelling its readers' most aspirational and farthest-flung fantasies – the April issue coquettishly promises to reveal "India's Delia, Sweden's Nigella and Thailand's Gordon" – the debut musings of its newest columnist, Pippa Middleton, ought to lay them blissfully to rest.

In her first article for Waitrose Kitchen, starkly entitled Pippa's Friday Night Feasts, the 29-year-old veteran of the party-planning scene and sister of the Duchess of Cambridge offers her tips on how to engineer a "relaxed, Asian-themed night in with friends".

Not only does she provide recipes, from hoisin duck rolls to ginger mojitos and tangerine and sake jellies with coconut cream, she also offers the odd aesthetic suggestion. Bright flowers can serve to "soften angular Asian-style tableware", while judicious deployment of paper lanterns, fairy lights or floating candles can "set the mood".

In a brisk and, at times, moving, exhortation to the kind of stick-in-the-mud whose idea of a perfect Friday night is six pints and a curry or a frozen pizza in front of a box-set, Pippa pleads for people to embrace the beginning of the weekend. "Friday night," writes the author of Celebrate, the renowned one-stop guide to entertaining, "is the perfect time to cook.

"Regardless of how tired I might be, the moment Friday lunchtime arrives I get that contagious pre-weekend excitement. Even if I'm feeling exhausted and don't feel like doing anything but watching telly, I can put off being tired till Saturday." After all, Friday – with its liberating "promise of the weekend" and safe distance from Sunday's "pre-Monday melancholy" – is a bit special.

To that end, Pippa recommends going the extra mile: to accompany her oriental twist on the famous Cuban cocktail, she suggests homemade sushi rolls.

Ah, sushi. The mere mention of the Japanese delicacy elicits, madeleine-like, memories of her initiation into its subtle mysteries. "The first time I made sushi was at Edinburgh university," she writes. "I convinced my flatmates to help, promising we'd prepare it in front of the rugby on TV that afternoon.

"The trickiest part was cooking the rice but even that, once we got a feel for the right stickiness, was easy, while the rolling just required patience."

The secret of sushi success, apparently, is to keep your rice layer pretty thin but to be generous with the filling. But you needn't worry about stocking up on the attendant paraphernalia. "If you don't have a bamboo rolling mat," Pippa advises, "just use clingfilm."

She is equally practical when it comes to tackling her delicious but daunting 143kcal pudding. If you don't want to do it all on Friday, why not "get ahead by making the jellies the night before"?

Would that all her dishes were as simple. Her Vietnamese spring rolls, alas, apparently require some "specialist kit". Fortunately, though, said kit is easily snap-upable at a certain well-known and well-heeled supermarket chain.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 29, 2013)

What's wrong with that? Suitably snide.


----------



## rekil (Mar 29, 2013)

I must have a Cambodian pad/island bolthole.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 29, 2013)

copliker said:


> I must have a Cambodian pad/island bolthole.
> 
> View attachment 30823


 
for fucks sake


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 29, 2013)

one for seventh bullet


----------



## sihhi (Mar 31, 2013)

William of Walworth said:


> Here we go though :
> 
> John Harris : Welfare : Get ready for a war over benefits
> 
> (clearly entirely valueless -- he's associated with Compass after all)


 
John Harris is dangerous poison in this article he again urges the destruction of the Beveridge allocation by assessment of need in favour of allocation by contribution: "The undeveloped idea of a more contributory system is probably the only way out of the mess"

This is utter lies: "Any kind of textured conversation has yet to start. No one, on the left or right, has much to say about how distant the benefits system is from our ongoing skills crisis, and the idea that people who cannot find work may well be in need of training and education, rather than incessant nudges towards the bottom of the labour market." 

The left has repeatedly - if not continually - argued in favour of retraining on full pay - after any sort of redundancy or unemployment or fully paid training programmes for unemployed school-leavers- he's just a liar.


----------



## sihhi (Mar 31, 2013)

Let's yah-boo the Lib Dems by smearing the sole sensible policy they ever sort of had - scrapping Trident. "Labour is right to support Trident A nuclear disarmament policy might look fine on a Lib Dem leaflet but it would cost our party and the country dear"

Hey, Hollande, make France competitive! "Mr Hollande, it turns out, did not really have anything much resembling a project for government. His administration seems absent of ideas about how to make France more competitive. His economic policy is muddled."

"I do believe it has been hard, and I hope the charity gig goes well. But you must not come back and try to rule over me and my family, while you don't even know that charity begins at home." The frig?


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2013)

sihhi said:


> John Harris is dangerous poison in this article he again urges the destruction of the Beveridge allocation by assessment of need in favour of allocation by contribution: "The undeveloped idea of a more contributory system is probably the only way out of the mess"
> 
> This is utter lies: "Any kind of textured conversation has yet to start. No one, on the left or right, has much to say about how distant the benefits system is from our ongoing skills crisis, and the idea that people who cannot find work may well be in need of training and education, rather than incessant nudges towards the bottom of the labour market."
> 
> The left has repeatedly - if not continually - argued in favour of retraining on full pay - after any sort of redundancy or unemployment or fully paid training programmes for unemployed school-leavers- he's just a liar.


 

I've just read that article, its dreadful, an apolgia for the L/P and Milliband and I suspect in parts untrue, I simply don't believe that no one he has spoken to on his travels has not pointed out that benefit fraud is actually quite low.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 1, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> for fucks sake


 
Only 365,000 pounds as well so - you know - well within the reach of the vast majority of Britons.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 1, 2013)

Just found this, its from 2011 but still

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/aug/18/aliens-destroy-humanity-protect-civilisations



> "A preemptive strike would be particularly likely in the early phases of our expansion because a civilisation may become increasingly difficult to destroy as it continues to expand. Humanity may just now be entering the period in which its rapid civilisational expansion could be detected by an ETI because our expansion is changing the composition of the Earth's atmosphere, via greenhouse gas emissions," the report states.
> "Green" aliens might object to the environmental damage humans have caused on Earth and wipe us out to save the planet. "These scenarios give us reason to limit our growth and reduce our impact on global ecosystems. It would be particularly important for us to limit our emissions of greenhouse gases, since atmospheric composition can be observed from other planets," the authors write.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2013)

ska invita said:


> BREAKING NEWS
> Front page news:
> 
> 
> ...


I can't remember where I read it, but someone journalist tried to recreate Pippa's feast and they didn't eat until 1am. Food was not that special either. I'll see if I can find it.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 1, 2013)

First of all an alien civilisation which was advanced enough to create industrial processes which led to space travel would have to have manipulated the environment in a similar way to what we have, they would have had to have mined various metals etc, and to have created the technology to actually reach earth (which we have never done btw) let alone try to destroy it they would have probably have to have fucked up their own planet even worse than we have


----------



## Favelado (Apr 1, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> First of all an alien civilisation which was advanced enough to create industrial processes which led to space travel would have to have manipulated the environment in a similar way to what we have, they would have had to have mined various metals etc, and to actually reach earth let alone try to destroy it they would have probably have to have fucked up their own planet even worse than we have


 
It's an odd value judgement in any case. Maybe super-rational aliens would think, "There's some insignificant cosmetic damage here, but these human cunts will be gone sooner or later and within a few million years the earth will look totally fucking different anyway - so whatever. Let them coat it in plastic and rape it dry. Not our problem!"


----------



## 8ball (Apr 1, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> I can't remember where I read it, but someone journalist tried to recreate Pippa's feast and they didn't eat until 1am. Food was not that special either. I'll see if I can find it.


 
You can't make sushi with just cling film and a bamboo rolling mat costs a quid or less.  Bizarre thing to say.  Is this shit all made up?


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2013)

Apologies, it was in the Mail -I was checking advertisers in the online edition recently and must have gotten distracted 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...AIL-verdict-cooks-recipe-column-Waitrose.html


> Had the finished results looked anything like the delicacies on the glossy pages of Waitrose magazine I wouldn’t have minded. But in reality, my Vietnamese spring rolls looked like flaccid seafood Femidoms, my sushi (if I dare honour it with the name) was sloppy and bursting at the seams and the cocktails - which Pip suggests garnishing with red chillis - were so fiery they should have come with a health warning.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 1, 2013)

Favelado said:


> It's an odd value judgement in any case. Maybe super-rational aliens would think, "There's some insignificant cosmetic damage here, but these human cunts will be gone sooner or later and within a few million years the earth will look totally fucking different anyway - so whatever. Let them coat it in plastic and rape it dry. Not our problem!"


 
Yeah well when we discover an intelligent life form I doubt our first reaction will be "look how badly they've fucked up greenhouse gas emissions, we have to kill them now to save whatever moon they're living on"  "They've got the CO2 well below target, we're going to have to exterminate them all now"


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2013)

8ball said:


> You can't make sushi with just cling film and a bamboo rolling mat costs a quid or less. Bizarre thing to say. Is this shit all made up?


Probably - but if you've never made sushi before, clingfirm is a logical if impractical solution.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 1, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> Probably - but if you've never made sushi before, clingfirm is a logical if impractical solution.


 
If you've never made it before, clingfilm is surely a guaranteed fail.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2013)

8ball said:


> If you've never made it before, clingfilm is surely a guaranteed fail.


Yes, because it's too flexible. But most people won't have figured that out.They'll be thinking they need something like a flat sheet they can roll.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 1, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, because it's too flexible. But most people won't have figured that out.They'll be thinking they need something like a flat sheet they can roll.


 
It would never have even occurred to me to give sushi a bash without either asking someone or looking it up.  Really easy if you know how but I imagine a nightmare to work out on your own.

Then again, my culinary repertoire is pretty restricted.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 1, 2013)

meanwhile the Guardian's front page says:






for "better or worse"


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2013)

8ball said:


> It would never have even occurred to me to give sushi a bash without either asking someone or looking it up. Really easy if you know how but I imagine a nightmare to work out on your own.
> 
> Then again, my culinary repertoire is pretty restricted.


You should get the magazine, give it a go


----------



## 8ball (Apr 1, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> You should get the magazine, give it a go


 
Think I'll stick with the way I normally do it, thanks.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2013)

8ball said:


> Think I'll stick with the way I normally do it, thanks.


I was joking!!!!! I think Pippa doing such a column is a bit of a joke and I bet some chef is ghosting it for her.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 1, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> I was joking!!!!! I think Pippa doing such a column is a bit of a joke and I bet some chef is ghosting it for her.


 
And trolling with the cling film comment.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 1, 2013)

8ball said:


> And trolling with the cling film comment.


I bet she hires someone from Japan to make her sushi for her.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 1, 2013)

that "we have to talk about why people support benefit cuts" article was shite i thought


----------



## 8ball (Apr 1, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> that "we have to talk about why people support benefit cuts" article was shite i thought


 
I only scanned it but it seemed ok.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Apr 1, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> First of all an alien civilisation which was advanced enough to create industrial processes which led to space travel would have to have manipulated the environment in a similar way to what we have, they would have had to have mined various metals etc, and to have created the technology to actually reach earth (which we have never done btw) let alone try to destroy it they would have probably have to have fucked up their own planet even worse than we have


 
And what business of their's would how we conduct our gig be anway? Coming over here in their spaceships & blowing us up, busybody do-gooding twats.


----------



## ymu (Apr 2, 2013)

Reasonably self-aware April Fools.



> From the printed word to the multimedia tablet, the Guardian has embraced technology like no other newspaper. Now, Alan Rusbridger, editor in chief, unveils the latest exciting step in the Guardian's mission to harness the power of online media: Guardian Goggles, delivering our quality journalism straight between the eyes
> 
> Read the article: Guardian launches 'augmented reality' specs to offer immersive liberal insight


 


> "Now, when you're out shopping, you needn't have memorised our recent features on ethically sourced foods. Just call up the 'Mini-Monbiot' app, and the products you're looking at will be rated in front of your eyes."


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 2, 2013)

ymu said:


> Reasonably self-aware April Fools.


 
A Guardian-goggles present would certainly have the WoW factor.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 11, 2013)

> The detail of that balance, between those wishing to praise the controversial former prime minister and those who wish to denounce her, will be a huge challenge for the police.
> There is mounting evidence that Trafalgar Square will be the focus of protests at 6pm on Saturday. A cross-section of activist groups are saying they will descend on central London on Saturday afternoon. Delegations of protesters are known to be travelling from a number of other cities for the occasion.
> *Ever since the 1994 poll tax riots*, the anarchist collective Class War has proposed a gathering on the square on the first Saturday after Thatcher's death.
> Class War is no longer a serious entity, although its most high-profile proponent, Ian Bone, has been widely quoted in recent days and has called for an effigy of Thatcher to be hung from the fourth plinth in the square.
> The anti-tax avoidan


can you spot the fucking huge error here?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/11/thatcher-funeral-scotland-yard-threats


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> can you spot the fucking huge error here?
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/11/thatcher-funeral-scotland-yard-threats


Someone has coloured and underlined it.


----------



## JimW (Apr 11, 2013)

Smallish one but par for the smug course and since there's been a thread bump: they were the only paper tacky enough in their match report to do a [sic] for a grammar error on t shirts Crewe players wore after our recent Wembley win showing support to a team mate who'd just lost his infant son.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 11, 2013)

JimW said:


> Smallish one but par for the smug course and since there's been a thread bump: they were the only paper tacky enough in their match report to do a [sic] for a grammar error on t shirts Crewe players wore after our recent Wembley win showing support to a team mate who'd just lost his infant son.


given the poll tax has been much in the news recently it is disappointing that one of britain's most crap newspapers should still manage to get it wrong.


----------



## JimW (Apr 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> given the poll tax has been much in the news recently it is disappointing that one of britain's most crap newspapers should still manage to get it wrong.


Wasn't questioning that, just the bump reminded me of that detail in an unrelated match report which seemed indicative of their style, which we know.


----------



## sihhi (Apr 21, 2013)

This kind of lunacy is why ... support Michael Gove's every promised gimmick because

_Shorter school holidays? That works for me Michael Gove's proposed amendments to the school calendar would help mothers who have to work_



> Yes, it would require a significant investment, but we can't go on ignoring the fact that many mothers need and want to work, and that our outdated school calendar is one of their biggest obstacles.


 
The economy is not the problem - school holidays are - make them short - in fact why not get rid of them altogether?


----------



## articul8 (Apr 22, 2013)

probably also about limiting time for rioting


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2013)

> Relief for Osborne as UK budget deficit narrows
> 
> Chancellor George Osborne was "spared blushes" thanks to a slightly better-than-expected outturn for last year's public finances, economists said, after official data showed the deficit edged lower.
> 
> ...


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 25, 2013)

Incredibly shit interview with that tosser Frank Turner. 


> writer gathered together quotes from interviews Turner had given, from 2009 to 2011. In these, Turner declared: "I consider myself to be pretty rightwing"; "The BNP are a hard left party"; "I think socialism's retarded"; and "Leftist politics lead to the misery of many, the crushing of the little guy". Immediately, Turner was swamped with abuse. "I went through a two-week period where I was getting close to 100 death threats and hatemail a day," he says. "Really vicious, horrible shit, all because of expressing an opinion contrary to the mainstream of thought within the entertainment or creative world. It was fucking horrible. I don't want to go through anything like that again. My skin has thickened. I've got much better at weathering internet storms – and they pass very quickly. The internet is, generally speaking, a fantastic thing, a wonderful boon for humanity. It gives everyone a voice, which is a double-edged sword. The instinctive egalitarian democrat in me thinks that's a good thing, but at the same time it means that every bored, ignorant, bile-filled arsehole can send me hatemail. And they do."


Boo fucking hoo


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2013)

only two weeks? we must try harder


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 25, 2013)

Two weeks is simply a transitional period to two years of constant hatemail for frank turner comrade, which will with the advent of socialism turn into a future of frank turner stamping on a torrernt of hateful letters, forever. Don't jump ahead of the class again


----------



## sihhi (Apr 30, 2013)

Sensationally rubbish leader yesterday on the monarchy - somewhere they have free reign to be radical on yet they still screw it up:




> In praise of … modest monarchies
> 
> The Guardian, Monday 29 April 2013 22.53 BST
> 
> The last time a monarch was crowned in the Netherlands, Amsterdam turned black with the smoke of burning cars and teargas. Squatters rioted under the banner "No roof over our heads, no crown on yours". Nothing like that is expected on Tuesday when Queen Beatrix makes way for her son Willem-Alexander. The ceremony, however, is worthy of note. It is secular. It takes places in the form of a meeting of the upper and lower houses of parliament, and, although the crown, sceptre and orb are laid out, the crown itself is never worn during the investiture, or at any other time.


 


Rubbish article in defence of multimillionaire musician. 



> Fourthly, and in general: All right, folks, time to find someone else to trash.


 
_Leave millionaires alone!_


----------



## mack (May 2, 2013)




----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2013)

OMG!! I didn't know people really had outside bogs! I thought it was just a little joke.

Shocking Memoir.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 3, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> OMG!! I didn't know people really had outside bogs! I thought it was just a little joke.
> 
> Shocking Memoir.


 
In outside bogs, no-one can hear you scream (or shit for that matter!).


----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> In outside bogs, no-one can hear you scream (or shit for that matter!).


They _can_ see the door shaking though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 3, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> OMG!! I didn't know people really had outside bogs! I thought it was just a little joke.
> 
> Shocking Memoir.


 
You'd think that Johnson, having gone through that (didn't sound too different to my childhood, to be fair, except my dad wasn't quite as feckless as his), would have a bit more compassion, but nah! Like with everything else, he wants to pull the ladder up behind his fat neoliberal arse.
A traitor to his class.


----------



## sihhi (May 4, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> You'd think that Johnson, having gone through that (didn't sound too different to my childhood, to be fair, except my dad wasn't quite as feckless as his), would have a bit more compassion, but nah! Like with everything else, he wants to pull the ladder up behind his fat neoliberal arse.
> A traitor to his class.


 
That's the point of grammar schools and scholarships - to encourage that identification with the new class.

What do you make of this, doesn't this insult every single trade unionist in the 1970s?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/02/unions-press-governs-britain-cameron-leveson

_Like the unions before it, the press has shown us who really governs Britain_


> Harold Wilson's Labour government tried, in Barbara Castle's In Place of Strife white paper, to bring the unions within the law. The unions, and a significant part of the Labour party, fought off the attempt. Ted Heath's Tory government tried again in the 1970s, and was driven from office. Jim Callaghan's Labour government ceded the unions a share of power, but he fell because of the unions too. Margaret Thatcher succeeded where Heath had failed, at traumatic cost to the unions – partly self-inflicted – that persists to this day. Yet for the past quarter-century, the "Who governs?" question has had its answer – the right one: parliament governs, through the law.


 



> Today two groups are the equivalents of the unions of yesteryear. The first are the boardroom tax avoiders, whose corporate and individual taxes, if paid as intended, would transform the public finances from deficit to surplus in an instant. The second group is the British press, with its collective interest in weak government.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2013)

sihhi said:


> That's the point of grammar schools and scholarships - to encourage that identification with the new class.
> 
> What do you make of this, doesn't this insult every single trade unionist in the 1970s?
> 
> ...


 
It's certainly an insult, and an inaccurate one at that. Unions already operated within the law, they didn't need "In Place of Strife" to bring them "within the law". They may have sometimes used tactics that were coercive, but the same could be said of the bosses, and I don't see Kettle having a pop at them.
Of course, if Kettle *did* know what he was talking about, he'd know that "In Place of Strife" was actually about kerbing the use of legal methods of dispute, and attempting to get the unions to cooperate in minimising wage claims etc. In other words, the state was attempting similar to what Kettle is panning the unions for doing - exerting power to get their own way.


----------



## sihhi (May 4, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's certainly an insult, and an inaccurate one at that. Unions already operated within the law, they didn't need "In Place of Strife" to bring them "within the law". They may have sometimes used tactics that were coercive, but the same could be said of the bosses, and I don't see Kettle having a pop at them.
> Of course, if Kettle *did* know what he was talking about, he'd know that "In Place of Strife" was actually about kerbing the use of legal methods of dispute, and attempting to get the unions to cooperate in minimising wage claims etc. In other words, the state was attempting similar to what Kettle is panning the unions for doing - exerting power to get their own way.


 
He was there at the time - he was a journalist at the New Society Labour's left-wing monthly. He has chosen to distort the truth on purpose. They do this all the time.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 4, 2013)

had to laugh at this- an article about unscrupulouse chinese rouges couloring rat and offal with chemicals and selling it on the next province as mutton. Not intrinsicly funny, out of order in fact. Meat should be meat. but the graun article pulled a quote from sina weibo which i think is chinas twitter

'If Chairman Mao were still here these people would be dragged outside and shot'


and

'even their family members should hang their heads in shame'

internets rehtoric ftw


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 9, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/06/sexual-abuse-in-white-community

Who the fuck is this dickhead?



> Every day across Britain, it seems, there's a new and horrific revelation of sexual abuse: last week we had the guilty plea of veteran TV presenter Stuart Hall, who confessed to 14 cases of indecent assault against 13 girls, the youngest only nine years old.
> Days earlier the possible scale of child abuse in north Wales children's homes was revealed. We now know there were 140 allegations of historical abuse between 1963 and 1992. A total of 84 suspected offenders have been named, and it's claimed the abuse took place across 18 children's homes.
> But after the shock has subsided and we have time to reflect on these revolting crimes, the main question in most reasonable people's minds must surely be:* what is it about white people that makes them do this?*
> Jimmy Savile is alleged to have abused 300 young people, and in his case and in north Wales, the abuse could not have happened without a wide range of co-conspirators either grooming children or ensuring the truth never got out. Hardly a week goes by without another white man being arrested in connection with sexual abuse.
> ...


 
Nob.


----------



## ymu (May 9, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/06/sexual-abuse-in-white-community
> 
> Who the fuck is this dickhead?
> 
> ...


He did tell you to read to the end. 



> Since the "black crime shock" tabloid stories of the 1980s, editors have known that stoking fears about misunderstood minorities is good for sales. If you object to this article, then you should understand how it feels to be a Muslim reading similar pieces pandering to Islamophobia day after day – and you should object to those too.


He's making an important point.

Whilst sadly missing the fact that it is time for men to face up to the problem of sexual abuse because women and children fighting it on their own clearly is not working.

I find the article offensive to those who have experienced and/or are at high risk of sexual abuse. But also a righteous slap to ridiculous racist tropes in the media. Black people are not responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime, but men are responsible for a disproportionate amount of the sexual (and other) violence visited on women and children so he could maybe have chosen a less sensitive topic to rip the piss with.

Not that he'd know that it was sensitive unless he stopped to think about it. That's the problem with these hierarchy of oppression liberal types. They think that being oppressed means you automatically understand the oppression of others. And that class is not an oppression at all.


----------



## ymu (May 9, 2013)

The immigration crackdown is stupid because immigrants are easy to exploit

Where do they find these arseholes?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> The immigration crackdown is stupid because immigrants are easy to exploit
> 
> Where do they find these arseholes?


 
I don't see how even you could read this into an entirely laudable article. How do you get from the completely valid point that immigrants are disproportionately of working age and entrepreneurial, to immigrant "exploitability"?


----------



## ymu (May 9, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> I don't see how even you could read this into an entirely laudable article. How do you get from the completely valid point that immigrants are disproportionately of working age and entrepreneurial, to immigrant "exploitability"?


Because that is the argument he is making.

If he'd pointed out that the economic benefits are immense (which is why all governments up until these numpties encouraged it) but not shared whilst the government uses divide and rule to demonise immigrants, weaken unions and undermine wages (which is what all governments do because the private sector wants cheap labour, not organised labour) then I'd have no argument.

But he is saying most of that and concluding that exploiting immigrants is good because he likes his servants cheap and fuck the rest of us.

Which is a bit of a cunt's trick. Although sadly it is not at all difficult to work out that you approve. You're New Labour, ffs!


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2013)

Spinning Hugo on Cif?


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 9, 2013)

ymu said:


> He did tell you to read to the end.
> 
> 
> He's making an important point.
> ...


 
Did I eckers like read it to the end


----------



## J Ed (May 11, 2013)

Two really good articles in the Graunid today, one an editorial:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/11/benefits-claimants-other-research

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/10/leader-syria-the-ugly-choice-ahead


----------



## teqniq (May 19, 2013)

Fdelman faces meeting in 'loons' row

Correct @ 23:32 19/05/13

Dontcha just love the Graun... 







"You can't even spell my name right you cunts"

They've corrected it now, unfortunately.


----------



## butchersapron (May 21, 2013)

The Guardian supports sustainable blacklisting and bullying:



> GMB members who have been involved in a more than year-long industrial dispute with Carillion at Swindon’s Great Western Hospital were astonished to learn the company had been shortlisted for The Guardian’s prestigious “Sustainable Business Award”.
> 
> The award ceremony took place last Wednesday, and GMB members protested outside the event.
> 
> The dispute involving 150 cleaners and porters has centered around claims of bullying and harassment by supervisors on the Carillion contract, and the practice of some supervisors shaking down staff for gifts of gold and money in exchange for holiday approvals, overtime or shift changes.


 


> In the lead up to the Guardian awards, as the GMB branch secretary, I sent a number of tweets to the judges of the awards, I also wrote a blog post encouraging others to do the same.
> 
> Each of my tweets quoted a link to a Guardian article, highlighting Carillion’s involvement with blacklisting, or the malpractice at the Swindon hospital. The tweets asked judges how they could justify honouring Carillion.
> 
> As a result, on 10th May, Clarks Legal, the law firm representing Carillion, issued a letter to me following the pre-action protocol for libel, and demanding that the blog post and tweets be taken down.


----------



## frogwoman (May 21, 2013)

Horrible paper.


----------



## butchersapron (May 23, 2013)

Stop talking about what i have been paid to talk about everyone


----------



## sihhi (May 23, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Stop talking about what i have been paid to talk about everyone


 
Link didn't work I'm guessing self-described militant centrist Simon Jenkins .


----------



## butchersapron (May 23, 2013)

Yep that's the one, ta for nod that had link wrong


----------



## sihhi (May 23, 2013)

"we're talking about wearable punk"



*Q: What is a typical work day for you?*



> No such thing, which is why it’s such a great job. I could be in the front row in Paris, or interviewing a new designer in Dalston, or at my desk with the team writing a column and having a laugh putting the measure together. It’s all fun.


----------



## butchersapron (May 25, 2013)

I didn't think this boy could get any more pompous. I was wrong. Here he is arguing that the correct response to people doing extreme thing is to ignore them:



> Just as Breivik's views on Islam did not deserve a hearing by the right, so the left should not use Woolwich to make its case on foreign policy


Maybe a US style constitution would stop this eh _Johnathon_? (Top private school then oxbridge - of course)


----------



## treelover (May 26, 2013)

I was about to read an article by Seaumas Milne on the Tories Austerity Experiment, it seems to have disappeared!


----------



## Fruitloop (May 28, 2013)

What is the current thing with stupid hats and scarves? There's a female writer (who is occasionally not that bad) and some dross about philosophy today from another dude that looks like he's wandered into Claire's Accessories while tripping.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 30, 2013)

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/a-big-day-out-atthe-guardian-data-driven-coffee-shop

Yes, the Guardian has opened a cafe. In Shoreditch. It's "data-driven". There are no words; Vice tries.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 30, 2013)

That's a very good article from Vice - the guardian should hire the writer.

The coffeeshop is an insane idea, they should have done a Michelin starred restaurant instead


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 30, 2013)

Or they could have phoned every business taking a weeny classified ad and tried to charge them 50% extra to double the size. Or cooked up an affiliate deal with a firm that offers alpine walking holidays in Libya, or sent a work experiencer to every newsagents in Merton to hide the _Independent_s under the _Exchange & Mart_s. There's a limitless number of things they could have done which would have been more sensible, but it's difficult to think of anything which would have been sillier.


----------



## Tankus (May 31, 2013)

Over on Guido who's worked out the guardians break even coffee


http://order-order.com.
''''Using figures from landlords We Are Pop Up, Guido has ground the numbers and calculated how many coffees the_Guardian_has to sell a day to break even:

Rent for one unit at BoxPark Shoreditch is £5,000 for every three months. Guardian Coffee has knocked three units together, making the cost for a year plus VAT £72,000.
There is a one off service charge for each box of £1,250, and electricity for each box is £150 a month. That makes £9,150 for the year.
Fitting the shop itself is valued at £25,000.
Business rates for Hackney Council are calculated as 47.1% of the annual rent, totalling £33,912.
A shop manager and four staff (based on witness reports of staff numbers) would together cost a minimum of around £100,000.
That is an estimated total cost per year of *£240,062*.
Each coffee is sold for £2.50.
At an estimated whosesale price of £10 per kilo from Nude Espresso, at 7 grams a cup that makes a fair trade gross profit of *£2.43 per coffee*.
_Meaning they have to sell 98,791 coffees to break even. That’s 8,233 coffees a month, 1,900 a week, or* 270 a day – basically one every 2 minutes..*._
At the time of going to pixel, before Guardian Coffee sadly removed their data infographic from the internet, on their big opening day they had sold just 60 coffees. _Another Guardian financial success''''_


----------



## brogdale (May 31, 2013)

Tankus said:


> Over on Guido who's worked out the guardians break even coffee
> 
> 
> http://order-order.com.
> ...


 
Light ''news" day in Staines world?

I'd imagine that many coffee oultets _*do*_ sell that many cups a day?


----------



## JimW (May 31, 2013)

More libertarian economics - to grind his axe he's left out all the high margin buns and what-not, which if it's anything like a pub will be where they make money, if they do.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (May 31, 2013)

the guardian recently ran an articule on tax evasion on its "comment is free" blog and the guardian's censorbots were kept very busy deleting all the posts questioning the guardians own ofshore tax arrangements


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 31, 2013)

SikhWarrioR said:


> the guardian recently ran an articule on tax evasion on its "comment is free" blog and the guardian's censorbots were kept very busy deleting all the posts questioning the guardians own ofshore tax arrangements


Yep. And of course the Guardian doesn't pay any corporation tax anyway - cos it doesn't make any money. In fact, it loses £75m per year and is propped up by Auto Trader's profits. Those losses help to reduce the tax bill elsewhere....


----------



## SikhWarrioR (May 31, 2013)

This Sikh stopped buying the guardian on a regular basis fifteen years ago when the guardian started being the loyal mouthpiece of the grinning spinning blair and his tory clone nu-labour and stopped buying it completely when the guardian became the mouthpiece of cleggnocchio and his lib-democrats as they climbed further and further up callmedave's backside......


----------



## SikhWarrioR (May 31, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> That's a very good article from Vice - the guardian should hire the writer.
> 
> The coffeeshop is an insane idea, they should have done a Michelin starred restaurant instead


 

Was'nt the guardian gonna start up a school of journalism???


----------



## killer b (Jun 11, 2013)

this is utterly bizarre - crowdsourcing a profile for their own columnist. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/glenn-greenwald-readers-tell-us-nsa-files


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 11, 2013)

killer b said:


> this is utterly bizarre - crowdsourcing a profile for their own columnist.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/glenn-greenwald-readers-tell-us-nsa-files


 
It's not that weird. The dedicated editorial staff in the US - and certainly the roster of big hitting commentators - is clearly much smaller than Madison Avenue was promised when the Graun set up shop in NY. It appears just to be Glenn these days who is left to be favourited every day on the Android app, and who is their best hope for engaging high-income progressive readers from Sepptonia.

So it makes absolute sense to pretend to advertisers that he has a loyal and personal following who would rush to the shops and stock up on whatever brand of fair trade cocoa opted to sponsor his column. Gathering robust and compelling data about these Glennites is vital.


----------



## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

> ''''Using figures from landlords We Are Pop Up, Guido has ground the numbers and calculated how many coffees the_Guardian_has to sell a day to break even:


 

I thought 'pop ups' were meant to be 'not for profit, wasn't there an agency set up partly by Dougald Hine and others, or is this a co-option of the idea.


----------



## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

http://www.wearepopup.com/about/

omg, just look at the personnel, marketing spiel, etc.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 11, 2013)

Dire.

Hey Labour, ignoring people over Europe is democratic because UKIP is against.

"Labour's hard task is not just to instil trust in the party but to repair the idea of good government. Honesty, authenticity and conviction build trust, while overcaution seems shifty. Trust comes not just from popular policies, such as massive home-building, but sticking to unpopular ones. Refusing a referendum because Ed Miliband will not lead Britain out of Europe to its destruction may be more of a winner than it seems: Ukip is the democratic choice for exit, Labour for staying at the international table.
However counterintuitive in this era, Labour needs to hymn the good the state does and the civilising value of what taxes buy – health, education, safety, proud public spaces. All the things that people value most."


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 11, 2013)

That's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that ignoring people over Europe (as part of a sensible agenda focused on domestic issues) is sound, admirable, and ultimately will win credibility. And what's more, she's absolutely right. She only mentioned democracy because an anti-referendum LP would have been democratically elected.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 11, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> That's not what she's saying at all. She's saying that ignoring people over Europe (as part of a sensible agenda focused on domestic issues) is sound, admirable, and ultimately will win credibility. And what's more, she's absolutely right.


 
Well great if you say so let's enjoy the Labour credibility.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

This article makes me confused and angry, Polly is defending data collection on an unimaginable scale by authoritarian neoliberal governments largely owned and controlled by business interests on the basis that they are all that stands in the way of... business interests. FFS.


----------



## rekil (Jun 12, 2013)

Fed up with government snooping? Vote Libertarian

"The Libertarian party has a lot of appeal in an era of government drones, NSA phone tapping and IRS scandals"



> the breakneck growth of government presents an opportunity for liberty advocates. Or as Charles Dickens might put it, the libertarians' winter of despair may yet give way to a spring of hope.



It doesn't get shitter than this.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 20, 2013)

This whining piece about middles class hardship has particularly annoyed me

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/us-money-blog/2013/jun/18/room-service-middle-class


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 20, 2013)

Belushi said:


> This whining piece about middles class hardship has particularly annoyed me
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/us-money-blog/2013/jun/18/room-service-middle-class


 
Note the way very rich are re-badged as middle class by Olen (who you'll be surprised to learn is from a highly exclusive private liberal arts college background)


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 20, 2013)

Belushi said:


> This whining piece about middles class hardship has particularly annoyed me
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/us-money-blog/2013/jun/18/room-service-middle-class


 
The "let's pretened we're American" vibe is particularly irksome.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 20, 2013)

She is american.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 20, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> She is american.


 
This is why you shouldn't let them into your country, they breed like rabbits.


----------



## The Pale King (Jun 20, 2013)

the breakneck growth of government presents an opportunity for liberty advocates. Or as Charles Dickens might put it, the libertarians' winter of despair may yet give way to a spring of hope.​Yes, no doubt Charles Dickens would have put it just so.


----------



## youngian (Jun 21, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2013/jun/21/lou-reed-edward-snowden-nsa-video



> Lou Reed's shock at Edward Snowden's NSA revelations – Velvet Underground legend Lou Reed holds a rare press conference at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity, where he voices his concern about the NSA's surveillance methods as revealed by the Guardian.


 
Nothing against most of Lou Reed's music, but why is the Guardian reporting his opinions on NSA surveillance?

They would be the first to sneer if a shitrag like the Mail or the Sun was reporting Simon Cowell or Kerry Katona's opinions on the crucial issues of the day.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2013)

youngian said:


> Nothing against most of Lou Reed's music


i guess you didn't hear that album he did with metallica then?

edit: oh, you said most. as you were.


----------



## youngian (Jun 21, 2013)

killer b said:


> i guess you didn't hear that album he did with metallica then?
> 
> edit: oh, you said most. as you were.


 
That was on my mind when I inserted that caveat.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 21, 2013)

Fair play to the guardian or more accurately Paul Lewis & Rob Evans for the stuff on police infiltration (and penetration) of activists - proper investigative journalism. Not enough fall out from this expose though...


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jun 21, 2013)

So GCHQ scooping all our data. Nice.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 21, 2013)

Barking_Mad said:


> So GCHQ scooping all our data. Nice.


 
That's their job. I'm glad they are doing it.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 21, 2013)

Barking_Mad said:


> So GCHQ scooping all our data. Nice.


 
Fuck me, the gaurdian revealed this?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2013)

ska invita said:


> Fair play to the guardian or more accurately Paul Lewis & Rob Evans for the stuff on police infiltration (and penetration) of activists - proper investigative journalism. Not enough fall out from this expose though...


 
And why isn't there enough fallout? Partly because the Guardian are helping to keep it on the downlow as Tim Westwood might say.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> And why isn't there enough fallout? Partly because the Guardian are helping to keep it on the downlow as Tim Westwood might say.


nah thats not true, every revelation has had a big splash and the book of the scoops is being serialised in one of the weekend bits. the reason the fallout isnt bigger is because the wronged parties are activists and so the pressure isnt that great. Right now its just a lot of brow beaten cops investigating one another - hopefully there'll be a stronger response down the line via the courts against the police. They haven't got much to stand on. *though maybe there has been more outcome and ive just missed it.


----------



## The Pale King (Jun 22, 2013)

Hi GCHQ


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 23, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/22/get-togethers-finninsh-feast

This makes me want to drill through my eyeballs. Nothing new, just an exceptionally irritating and particularly 'guardian' group of people taking up two pages of a newspaper with pointless details about their privileged lives for no fathomable reason.

'We call it the batman summer house, because it was built for a victorian batman'
'Diggory writes musical theatre for children'

The cake looks quite nice to be fair.


----------



## killer b (Jun 23, 2013)

> If you'd like your get-together to feature in the Cook pages (and receive a tin of delicious cakes and a cookbook), emailcook@guardian.co.uk, with "get-togethers" in the subject line


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 23, 2013)

My cooking week ' a get-together with myself'.

'On thursday, we had a row about access and I chained smoked 20 L+B whilst pacing around angrily in the flat. I kicked a chunk out of the door to the spare room. Fucking cheap balsawood shit. I think I might have coughed some blood up in my sleep. I couldn't face eating anything proper, so I ate a whole packet of Mr Kiplings fondant slices I'd found reduced in Morrisons. I felt sick, so had a can of warm lager to wash the taste away. Friday, I slept in till 2pm and I make the same mistake with a stale 'best in' battenburg - I saw dave in the queue at Londis whilst I was buying it, he's in a mobility scooter now and he's only 38! He's really pissed off with it, because the batteries on the blink and they won't send him a replacement'


----------



## sihhi (Jun 23, 2013)

"When competitive markets work, they distribute economic power among the many, rather than the few."


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 23, 2013)

sihhi said:


> "When competitive markets work, they distribute economic power among the many, rather than the few."


 
That´s a Blair quote, isn´t it? "The many not the few", I mean.


----------



## DownwardDog (Jun 24, 2013)

youngian said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2013/jun/21/lou-reed-edward-snowden-nsa-video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Because it's bang on target for their aging middle class demographic? It did transcend parody though like the famous Xmas wrapping paper designed by Desmond Tutu. Next week: Fee Waybill's reaction to Hezbollah's involvement in Syria.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 24, 2013)

ska invita said:


> Fair play to the guardian or more accurately Paul Lewis & Rob Evans for the stuff on police infiltration (and penetration) of activists - proper investigative journalism. Not enough fall out from this expose though...


I agree, what with that and the NSA/GCHQ revelations, the Guardian have actually done well over the past few weeks


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 24, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> I agree, what with that and the NSA/GCHQ revelations, the Guardian have actually done well over the past few weeks


apart from sitting on the stephen lawrence story until it suited their purposes to release it. if yer man has been working for them since 2011 they've known about it for quite some time.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 24, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> apart from sitting on the stephen lawrence story until it suited their purposes to release it. if yer man has been working for them since 2011 they've known about it for quite some time.


yeah, fair point. I suppose their argument is that they wanted to complete their investigation first


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 24, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> yeah, fair point. I suppose their argument is that they wanted to complete their investigation first


no their argument is they wanted a big splash so their book sold loads.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 24, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no their argument is they wanted a big splash so their book sold loads.


well yes, that too!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 24, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no their argument is they wanted a big splash so their book sold loads.


Perish the thought


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 24, 2013)

Look at this fatuous fool explaining exactly what dawkins spent 5 minutes explaining first - what he then went on to explain that dawkins didn't get. You really only had to listen to 5 minutes of a YouTube video and then get 500 quid for 500 words. And you fucked it up. You utter tool.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 25, 2013)

> Yet the allegations about undercover policing in the Lawrence case are part of something much wider. Understandable solidarity with the Lawrences should not cause us to neglect the pattern of police activity of which this was apparently only part. The Operation Herne investigation is looking at a wide range of other abuses of undercover police work over decades. The net was cast well beyond the Lawrence campaign. The means employed, including the use of dead children's identities, were horribly ingenious and exploitative. Dozens of police officers may face prosecution, says the office in charge of Herne.
> 
> Politicians must take all these allegations more seriously than they do. Secret work must always be properly monitored and proportionately authorised. The agencies carrying it out must never be allowed to become self-authorising. If that happened in the cases covered by Operation Herne then ministers may have been in the dark. Ministers always claim that they are exercising a firm and proportionate hand over other forms of secret work, so this would be a very disturbing precedent indeed.


 
Bizarre confused piece. Get angry, but not too angry and look at wider things, but not politicians. That's so odd and incoherent  that if we found out who wrote it it might reveal something interesting.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 25, 2013)

What *is* happening to this newspaper? 

*Rihanna or Liz Jones: who is the better role model?*

Rihanna has responded angrily to a Liz Jones article in the Daily Mail calling the musician a 'toxic role model' for her young fans. Who would you rather your children looked up to?​
uesday 25 June 2013 15.03 BST






Rihanna and Liz Jones. Photograph: Rex Features/Suki Dhanda

Who is the better role model?​​76%​ Rihanna
​24%​ Liz Jones​


----------



## brogdale (Jun 28, 2013)

> *I am ugly, and proud of it*
> 
> This might be the last acceptable form of discrimination, but the fact is I don't see people on TV or in films who look like me
> 
> ...


 
Second comment underneath....



> 28 June 2013 3:04pm
> Recommend
> *711*
> you are very clearly not ugly.
> x


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2013)

When I went to bed they had a big new nsa splash, now  'taken down' because, and I kid you not, it was single sourced to 911, Obama is a foreign gay Muslim type conspiracy freak. Unbelievable in 2013.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 30, 2013)

How on earth can anyone respond to this nonsense its main header - 'don't protest, your country is still poor' 




> In this larger, chronically unstable context, the desirability of reaching a consensus on the way ahead that engages all the various factions as well as President Morsi and the Brotherhood, of an historic national compromise however messy and unsatisfactory, of a collective effort to pull, prod and coax the country into the next stage of its post-revolution development, seems undeniable. *Egypt, literally, cannot afford to fight.* The Arab world awaits its choice. The Arab spring, that fragile growth, awaits its example. The revolution's mantra, "bread, freedom, social justice", must be honoured. But bread comes first.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 30, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> When I went to bed they had a big new nsa splash, now 'taken down' because, and I kid you not, it was single sourced to 911, Obama is a foreign gay Muslim type conspiracy freak. Unbelievable in 2013.


 
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/351069091475361792/photo/1

http://www.guardian.co.uk/info/2013/jun/30/taken-down


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2013)

Here's the cached article. Jamie Doward as author.

Here's a typical claim by Madsen (not the names involved - Corsi etc)

Maybe they should all have to go on one of these? This one maybe?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 1, 2013)

This is really what they  are saying:



> Tamarod, a new youth movement which has been heavily involved in the protests, has given President Morsi until Tuesday after noon to step down.


Can i have a job?  This is beyond taking the piss.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 1, 2013)

Sundays is always when the biggest fuck ups seem to happen - high time they just pulled the plug on the Observer.


----------



## sihhi (Jul 1, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/video/2013/jun/30/is-god-at-glastonbury-video

Talking with wasted people and religious people at Glastonbury - mind expanding bonus: John Harris - knows the mood of things.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 1, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Can i have a job?


your p46 is in the post


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 1, 2013)

Malthusianism, again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jun/30/population-growth-wipe-out-life-earth


----------



## gosub (Jul 1, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/01/internet-trolls-guide-to-different-flavours


A whole articile relating to trolling and academia, and world leading expert (or whatever other self agrandizement he is currently using) Bonathan Jishop isn't mentioned once


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 1, 2013)

I can't believe this one hasn't been done yet!



> ...A sitcom is like a delicately spiced soup. A bouillabaisse. You go to incredible lengths to ensure the seasoning is spot-on – a branch of fennel, an extra pistil of saffron; that the balance of ingredients is right, the stock sublime. Eventually it's done. You taste it – it's perfect....


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/30/tv-commissioning-sitcoms


----------



## Santino (Jul 1, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> I can't believe this one hasn't been done yet!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/30/tv-commissioning-sitcoms


That is awful. Awful, awful, awful.

Everyone knows a sitcom is more like a risotto. The rice is the script, the acting is the stock and the theme tune is the parmesan cheese added for the last minute of cooking. 


The complete series boxed set is the leftover risotto formed into balls, coated in breadcrumbs and fried up. Obv.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2013)

surely a sitcom is more like a FEB


----------



## sihhi (Jul 2, 2013)

Stop saying Glastonbury is too expensive!   If you say it's becoming more like an excuse for firms to advertise and market, you're old and out-of-touch.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/glastonbury-casual-ageism-rolling-stones


----------



## sihhi (Jul 2, 2013)

Let's give yet another platform to one of these ultra-rightists:






Conservative Home, the BBC, the TaxPayers Alliance, ITV is not enough, Mark Wallace must be spread wider.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/telegraph-no-longer-torygraph


----------



## Santino (Jul 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Let's give yet another platform to one of these ultra-rightists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I enjoy most about that picture is the affectedly casual body language of the twat second from left.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Let's give yet another platform to one of these ultra-rightists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

They really do look like a cartoon gang from the Beano or something.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Let's give yet another platform to one of these ultra-rightists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Fucking Idris and his gifs.


----------



## youngian (Jul 6, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/05/labour-unions-issue-weakness-editorial


> Labour and the Unions: an issue of weakness


 
Todays Guardian editorial sounds like a 30 year old Times article in order to tell us about the out of date world of unions.



> Parties have become more centralised and image-driven. The high road to politics is through university and a job as a special adviser (this includes the unions).


 
And this is seen as a good thing for politics? I thought the 21st century public were clamouring for more politicians from 'the real world'.
Perhaps we could have the best of both worlds by encouraging working people to join organisations to that train members for leadership positions and have a long tradition of sending them to colleges and university.



> Old-style, class-based political parties are in decline because the economy and class have changed. Membership is puny by comparison with the mid-20th century.


 
6.5m members and growing http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/629ca3b0-c85f-11e2-8cb7-00144feab7de.html#axzz2YFhXtnhB

This is down from 13m in 1979 after three decades of legal emsaculation, the dessimation of membership in long gone industries and 30 yrs of anti-union media propaganda, including the liberal BBC and Guardian. The question the Guardian should be asking is why unions have managed to survive at all.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2013)

youngian said:


> The question the Guardian should be asking is why unions have managed to survive at all.


 



			
				Alan Rusbridger in 1997 said:
			
		

> I mean, a lot of the [Thatcherite] trade union stuff doesn't seem as horrendous now as it seemed at the time


 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/m...s-staff-with-blairite-conviction-1253795.html


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Jul 8, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Dire.
> 
> Hey Labour, ignoring people over Europe is democratic because UKIP is against.
> 
> ...


 

"Labour's hard task is not just to instil trust in the part" Er for many people including this Sikh trust in NuLabour went out the window in 1997 when the Grinning spinning Blair got the keys to No10 Downing Street


----------



## treelover (Jul 8, 2013)

> He believes that morale at its Farringdon Road home fell to a dangerously low level in the late 1980s when the New Right's political hegemony seemed impregnable and The Guardian was "stuck in a very Old Labour mindset and basically pissing in the wind". *Now "we are read by the people in power*".


 
not any more, what a twat...

good find Dave..


----------



## rekil (Jul 14, 2013)

Amanda Palmer delivers riposte to Daily Mail bra story – in 3/4 time

Shock them normals.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 14, 2013)

Meanwhile they take down Gary Younge's piece about the Trayvon Martin shooting "pending investigation".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/info/2013/jul/14/removed-article

It's still on their World Politics RSS feed at time of writing, though, and the text is also here - http://pastebin.com/R3ugFqJW


----------



## teqniq (Jul 14, 2013)

I surmise they are fearful of alienating some portion of their American readership. If this is the case they have taken 'spineless' to new levels.


----------



## belboid (Jul 18, 2013)

a minor thing in the wider scheme of things, but still stupid and irritating.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2013/jul/18/mary-tyler-moore-show-boxset

It's a great show, well worth watching.  Or it would be if it was available for region 2 viewers, which it isnt. 

The article also links to the 'pilot episode' - which would also be nice, except its a link to the wrong show


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

belboid said:


> a minor thing in the wider scheme of things, but still stupid and irritating.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2013/jul/18/mary-tyler-moore-show-boxset
> 
> It's a great show, well worth watching. Or it would be if it was available for region 2 viewers, which it isnt.


 
TBF, about 85% of domestic DVD players can be re-programmed to be "region free" simply by looking up the model on t'web with the words "region hack" appended.  I've done this with my last 3 DVD players, because I'm a cheapskate bastard who sometimes buys non-region 2 discs due to price differential.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 19, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, about 85% of domestic DVD players can be re-programmed to be "region free" simply by looking up the model on t'web with the words "region hack" appended. I've done this with my last 3 DVD players, because I'm a cheapskate bastard who sometimes buys non-region 2 discs due to price differential.


Even we managed to  turn our DVD into an all regions player!
Even us!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 19, 2013)

Kind of a silly article, but I do wonder why it's assumed blokes do the grilly bit at a BBQ - at least at the ones I go to.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/19/barbecue-normal-men-sexist

Though it has been often said that all a man needs to be happy is a fire and a stick to poke it with.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, about 85% of domestic DVD players can be re-programmed to be "region free" simply by looking up the model on t'web with the words "region hack" appended. I've done this with my last 3 DVD players, because I'm a cheapskate bastard who sometimes buys non-region 2 discs due to price differential.


I know, but its still daft, and I bet a large percentage of their readership have no idea how to change the region, or even think its 'wrong' to do so.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

belboid said:


> I know, but its still daft, and I bet a large percentage of their readership have no idea how to change the region, or even think its 'wrong' to do so.


 
You may have a point on the guilt thing!


----------



## youngian (Jul 19, 2013)

8ball said:


> Kind of a silly article, but I do wonder why it's assumed blokes do the grilly bit at a BBQ - at least at the ones I go to.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/19/barbecue-normal-men-sexist
> 
> Though it has been often said that all a man needs to be happy is a fire and a stick to poke it with.


 
Next week, why do men leave the toilet seat up.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 21, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/21/david-gower-guide-townies-countryside

_The gamekeeper on the shooting estate where I have a small country retreat received a phone call from a panic-stricken resident of the nearby village a few weeks ago._

Some proper forelock tugging ol' country wisdom.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

Radical thinkers: Max Horkheimer's Critique of Instrumental Reason



> Max Horkheimer, the influential philosopher and sociologist of the Frankfurt School, is most famous for his work on critical theory. But in his book The Critique of Instrumental Reason he focuses on the values of the Enlightenment, the philosophical project that he argues failed to create a rational society. On a busy day at London's Camden Market, Esther Leslie looks at Horkheimer's understanding of 'pseudo-individuality' and his relevance today.


 
Huh huh look at all these people shopping (and no doubt _having their tea_ later) and thinking they are making their own choices rather than being colonised by instrumental logic, bow down in your new temples. 

What a tool.

*come on then articul8, let's get it over with*


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

Note the lack of wages.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Note the lack of wages.


 
I'm making a mistake here aren't I?

It says it is salaried -do you mean they haven't specified the amount? What am I missing?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

It's me missing it. _Curses_. Many.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm going to go for that anyway. What's the worse that could happen?


----------



## Favelado (Jul 24, 2013)

I just assumed that I was the bell-end who jumped in to point out a mistake but was actually wrong. I'll definitely manage that later though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I'm going to go for that anyway. What's the worse that could happen?


 
articul8 thinks he can land a punch on you?

Then misses.  Again.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 25, 2013)

.


----------



## rekil (Jul 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I'm going to go for that anyway. What's the worse that could happen?


This is a little bit you.

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/07/were-hiring-new-statesman-events-assistant-full-time



> In addition to your covering letter we also ask that you write an imaginary letter to an MP of your choosing inviting them to participate in an event.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

oh my god


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> oh my god


Dear Mr Cameron

I am writing to you as your interest in riots is well known. To mark the fifteenth anniversary of 'J18' - the Carnival Against Capitalism in the CIty of London on Waterloo Day, 18 June 1999 - a rematch has been arranged between the demonstrators and then members of the City of London Police. Both the former City of London Police Commissioner Perry Nove and Mark Brown, who was charged with organising the event, feel that a man with your famous interest in riots could ring the Luteen Bell to start the re-enactment. Please RSVP as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely

Pickman's Model


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2013)

Whats an imaginary letter? I often send my local some deserved bollockings, never a response

Imaginary democracy

looks like the OB have nothing to go on wrt Falkirk. So just a labour right attack on their much beaten funding source. Taking the fucking piss.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Whats an imaginary letter? I often send my local some deserved bollockings, never a response
> 
> Imaginary democracy
> 
> looks like the OB have nothing to go on wrt Falkirk. So just a labour right attack on their much beaten funding source. Taking the fucking piss.


see my letter in post #2060


----------



## captainmission (Aug 4, 2013)

Low paid coffee shop workers don't being able to spell an unusual spelling of an uncommon name is an attack on diversity...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/04/starbucks-write-names-correctly

plus anyone who makes a statement like "In a world of colliding cultures, a name is more than what someone calls you; it's a verbal business card" doesn't deserve coffee in the first place.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 4, 2013)

Jesus, talk about first world problems


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 4, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Low paid coffee shop workers don't being able to spell an unusual spelling of an uncommon name is an attack on diversity...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/04/starbucks-write-names-correctly
> 
> plus anyone who makes a statement like "In a world of colliding cultures, a name is more than what someone calls you; it's a verbal business card" doesn't deserve coffee in the first place.


I was like _totally_ oppressed when I lived in Spain. One time I said my name to a landlord and he wrote down YAK, then when I said, "with a J", he changed it to YAKJ  In the end I just started saying "Jack, like the whisky" to avoid confusion.


----------



## captainmission (Aug 4, 2013)

New Zealanders pronounce my name Rod, when it's Rob- which is exactly the same as racism


----------



## Frances Lengel (Aug 4, 2013)

I-c-e-s-s like the godess? Aw _come on._


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 5, 2013)

captainmission said:


> New Zealanders pronounce my name Rod, when it's Rob- which is exactly the same as racism


 
They *could* be trying to imply that you're some sort of toll.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Low paid coffee shop workers don't being able to spell an unusual spelling of an uncommon name is an attack on diversity...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/04/starbucks-write-names-correctly
> 
> plus anyone who makes a statement like "In a world of colliding cultures, a name is more than what someone calls you; it's a verbal business card" doesn't deserve coffee in the first place.


im just grateful when I don't get poisoned by starbucks food cos its the only thing on the train station tbf


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 27, 2013)

Have some of this:



> *Art in the countryside: why more and more UK creatives are leaving the city*
> 
> For the last two decades, art of all kinds has thrived in cities – and in London in particular. But as attitudes to the country change, more and more artists are fleeing the urban crush


 
By the _Grauniad_'s 'Chief Arts Writer' Charlotte Higgins (Balliol, Oxon), who somehow has 25k twitter followers (but no tumblr? No vine? Not even instagram? How arty is that, dammit?!) and has just had a book on Roman Britain published - and glowingly reviewed by failed lawyer-turned _Mail_ hack Harry Mount (North Bridge House/Westminster/Magdalen, Oxon with Bullingdon membership thrown in) in the _Telegraph_.

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/aug/26/art-countryside-uk-creatives


----------



## JTG (Aug 29, 2013)

They've started doing an online Australian edition, which has led to some truly dreadful cricket journalism appearing in a paper where normally we only had to worry about the odd idiotic Andy Wilson or Barney Ronay piece appearing.

Exhibit A:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/aug/29/all-time-worst-ashes-xis

Yes, let's slag off some pretty decent cricketers for the lols. It's not like anyone will think we know jack shit about what we're publishing. On a par with the 'David Gower was crap' gag in that shit panel show


----------



## Santino (Aug 29, 2013)

"Hyperglocal thinkfluencer"


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 5, 2013)

Same story ten times.



> Those methods include covert measures to ensure NSA control over setting of international encryption standards, the use of supercomputers to break encryption with "brute force", and – the most closely guarded secret of all – collaboration with technology companies and internet service providers themselves.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 5, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Have some of this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Her book's a decent read, though a bit whimsical.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 5, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/05/ed-miliband-labour-special-conference


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 5, 2013)

Why the face?


----------



## Sprocket. (Sep 5, 2013)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/05/ed-miliband-labour-special-conference



. Bourgeois toady arsewipe. ''It is one WE are confident he would win easily''.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 5, 2013)

Why would it matter?


----------



## Sprocket. (Sep 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why would it matter?



True, The world is run by the News, fuck em'


----------



## J Ed (Sep 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why the face?



I just found the article smug and annoying


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Same story ten times.



I always smirk a bit when an article mentions "brute force" cracking of encryption, because it's processor and resource-intensive and can be slow, so it only gets done to encrypted material deemed very important, not to every e-mail encrypted with PGP, like so many journos and conspiraloons like to imply.


----------



## white rabbit (Sep 6, 2013)

Tbf, the article [edit: actually, this one] did say that it was a method they use to attack specific machines, rather than all traffic. If you use something like January123, it probably wouldn't take them too long to get into your account, but cracking every piece of encryption like that would take forever. Likewise, j4Nu''4ree$ could be vulnerable but would take more effort. Which was really his message. Use strong encryption not because it makes you invulnerable, but the more people use it the more expensive it is for them.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 6, 2013)

This is not the same story ten times.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2013)

teqniq said:


> This is not the same story ten times.


They  have a carcass. This week they'll give up it's feet. next week the head. It's the same carcass every time.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 6, 2013)

I think pretty much any news organisation would treat the story in the same fashion - leave your customers wanting more. But in any event Greenwald has previously stated that he was/is working on other stories related to the files given to him by Snowden.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2013)

teqniq said:


> I think pretty much any news organisation would treat the story in the same fashion - leave your customers wanting more. But in any event Greenwald has previously stated that he was/is working on other stories related to the files given to him by Snowden.


Which is a reason that they're shit - _we own this info_, we're not releasing it all right now as it doesn't suit _us_.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 6, 2013)

Actually in a sense it's worse than that as they are agreeing beforehand with the NSA and GCHQ what they will actually publish, though really the decision to publish in dribs and drabs is partly business-related and could easily be levelled at any news organisation. The other factor is Greenwald has stated that it takes time to go through all the documents and assimilate the info.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2013)

teqniq said:


> Actually in a sense it's worse than that as they are agreeing beforehand with the NSA and GCHQ what they will actually publish, though really the decision to publish in dribs and drabs is partly business-related and could easily be levelled at any news organisation. The other factor is Greenwald has stated that it takes time to go through all the documents and assimilate the info.


His/their interns need to get a move.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2013)

Am i totally missing an allusion here? The last line of their review of the Diana film is:



> She is the Heiress Of Sorrows.



I can find only one other use of the phrase - in a pakistani papers readers poem corner. Now, given the film concerns her relationship with a Pakistani bloke there may be something there that i'm missing, but i'm not sure Peter Bradshaw is that well up on readers poetry in the daily jang.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Am i totally missing an allusion here? The last line of their review of the Diana film is:
> 
> 
> 
> I can find only one other use of the phrase - in a pakistani papers readers poem corner. Now, given the film concerns her relationship with a Pakistani bloke there may be something there that i'm missing, but i'm not sure Peter Bradshaw is that well up on readers poetry in the daily jang.


"Heir of Sorrows" was the Mills & Boon pastiche thing Private Eye did about Charles.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2013)

Ah right, cheers. Do you know who wrote that?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Ah right, cheers. Do you know who wrote that?


Not sure - the byline ("Sylvie Krin") and Heir Of Sorrows itself has been going for ages, so probably more than one person.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not sure - the byline ("Sylvie Krin") and Heir Of Sorrows itself has been going for ages, so probably more than one person.


Yep, probably loads of people. Cheers. Damn was hoping this was just the guardian being terrible.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 6, 2013)

I've always assumed it was Craig Brown


----------



## J Ed (Sep 7, 2013)

Guardian lets the lying, homophobic, sour graped and litigious poor historian shill for a war on CiF

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/06/left-irrational-fear-us-intervention-syria


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 7, 2013)

I don't think that Sylvie Krin is Brown. The main gag in the _Never Too Old _strand has been that Wendi Deng says "Lupert" a lot. Ho ho. Brown is rather better than that.

E2A: Google suggests that it's Barrie Fantoni, which makes much more sense.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Sep 7, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Guardian lets the lying, homophobic, sour graped and litigious poor historian shill for a war on CiF
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/06/left-irrational-fear-us-intervention-syria



To be fair, the whole point of CiF is to allow anybody who is at least reasonably well known to have a go. Every kind of partisan regularly berates the Graun for giving their opponents a platform, but that's because they don't understand the difference between CiF and editorial comment. If you want to prove bias in the selection you'll need more than a sample of one.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I always smirk a bit when an article mentions "brute force" cracking of encryption, because it's processor and resource-intensive and can be slow, so it only gets done to encrypted material deemed very important, not to every e-mail encrypted with PGP, like so many journos and conspiraloons like to imply.



They won't need anywhere near the resources to crack PGP as was thought a few weeks ago.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 7, 2013)

This is very interesting!


----------



## Nylock (Sep 9, 2013)

sihhi said:


> <snip>,* Mark Wallace must be spread wider.*


Yes, preferably with a huge butter knife...


----------



## belboid (Sep 10, 2013)

Not merely liveblogging the launch of a fucking phone, but starting that blog five hours before said phone is actually due to be launched (actually, five hours before the launch is due to begin, so probably seven hours before the actual product appears).  Not a waste of money at all, oh no


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 12, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> had to stop reading when I got to this massive fucking facepalm:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He is both. Here he is today with 'a hunch' that the lib-dems are going to do surprisingly well in the 2015 general election. Anyone remember any of his other political hunches? The one where the lib-dems will thrive due to being coalition? The one where the public will - if they don't already - grow to love and respect Nick Clegg? The one where Vince Cable was just about to replace Clegg as leader? The one that the lib-dems were just about to see a rise in their polling figures? The one where the lib-dems were just about to replace labour as the second big party The one from a few months later, just before their 2010 poll rise where he predicted there would be no polling breakthrough? The one in which the lib-dems face either 'disaster or oblivion'? The one where the lib-dems are back in business? 

I could go on.


----------



## JTG (Sep 12, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> He is both. Here he is today with 'a hunch' that the lib-dems are going to do surprisingly well in the 2015 general election. Anyone remember any of his other political hunches? The one where the lib-dems will thrive due to being coalition? The one where the public will - if they don't already - grow to love and respect Nick Clegg? The one where Vince Cable was just about to replace Clegg as leader? The one that the lib-dems were just about to see a rise in their polling figures? The one where the lib-dems were just about to replace labour as the second big party The one from a few months later, just before their 2010 poll rise where he predicted there would be no polling breakthrough? The one in which the lib-dems face either 'disaster or oblivion'? The one where the lib-dems are back in business?
> 
> I could go on.


That's particularly idiotic as one of his main arguments is Eastleigh, a seat which is nothing like any of the others that the party will be defending in 2015


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2013)

What is this articles argument?

A Labour win is still on – if alienated Tories and Lib Dems play ball


----------



## JTG (Sep 13, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What is this articles argument?
> 
> A Labour win is still on – if alienated Tories and Lib Dems play ball


It's raining, summer's over and everything's shit


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2013)

Nice easy grand earnt for polly then.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 14, 2013)

Guardian going back to being the propaganda piece for the LibDems. Four puff pieces in one day



> Of the three major British party conferences, only that of the Liberal Democrats, which starts in Glasgow on Saturday, has serious claims to be democratic. They still use their conference to hammer out policy. Unlike the other two conferences, debates still take up the majority of the timetable. Only at Lib Dem conference is the language of motions, amendments, rulings from the chair, references back and summings-up still an integral part of proceedings.





> It takes a certain political dexterity to be cast as a biblical figure one day and to take a starring role next to the London catwalk on the next.
> 
> Vince Cable completed such a journey on Friday as he sat with the titans of British fashion a day after David Cameron had dubbed Britain's gloomy business secretary a "perpetual Jeremiah".
> 
> "I am being a fashion icon to support one of the great successful British export stories," Cable says as he shows off an Alexander McQueen tie, chosen specially for his appearance at the launch of London fashion week.


----------



## torquemad (Sep 14, 2013)

_*"Of the three major British party conferences, only that of the Liberal Democrats, which starts in Glasgow on Saturday, has serious claims to be democratic. They still use their conference to hammer out policy.*_ .."

Aye, and then trample all over their conference decisions. Clegg's (and the LibDems) commitment on fees being but one example, and their line on benefits and housing being another.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 14, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What is this articles argument?
> 
> A Labour win is still on – if alienated Tories and Lib Dems play ball



Polly has to be the worst CIF regular after


----------



## teqniq (Sep 14, 2013)

LOL I have to agree, couldn't you think of anyone else 'after' ?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 14, 2013)

Andrew Brown is pretty bad, but nah


----------



## J Ed (Sep 14, 2013)

To balance things out, I thought that this was a pretty good article! http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/13/fruit-migrant-workers


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 14, 2013)

J Ed said:


> To balance things out, I thought that this was a pretty good article! http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/13/fruit-migrant-workers



I've no idea if it's a good article or not but this is not the thread for those


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 14, 2013)

torquemad said:


> _*"Of the three major British party conferences, only that of the Liberal Democrats, which starts in Glasgow on Saturday, has serious claims to be democratic. They still use their conference to hammer out policy.*_ .."
> 
> Aye, and then trample all over their conference decisions. Clegg's (and the LibDems) commitment on fees being but one example, and their line on benefits and housing being another.



it was fairly obvious that the Lib-Dems would do so, as soon as the party executive started pushing for structural changes that would disempower members around 2008 (effectively making conference a "talking shop", in the same way "new" Labour and the Conservative Party both neutered their local activists).  The days of the Lib-Dem conference being a policy venue are numbered, and that's reflected in how many members have quit, and in their historically-low membership figures.


----------



## Nylock (Sep 14, 2013)

In some ways they need to keep the veneer of their conference being a policy venue as, come 2015, there's only going to be six of them left...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 14, 2013)

Nylock said:


> In some ways they need to keep the veneer of their conference being a policy venue as, come 2015, there's only going to be six of them left...



They're already below the 30,000 mark, with another 2 years-ish to go before a General Election, so while I reckon there'll be more than 6, there may only be enough to fill a Granada bingo hall, rather than the NEC.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Sep 14, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> They're already below the 30,000 mark, with another 2 years-ish to go before a General Election, so while I reckon there'll be more than 6, there may only be enough to fill a Granada bingo hall, rather than the NEC.




I would rather the Libdem's would fill a scout hut for their conference and all their MP's could share the one taxi to the palace of fools as for the conservatives and nu-labour i would wish that they followed the dinosaurs into extinction


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 14, 2013)

SikhWarrioR said:


> I would rather the Libdem's would fill a scout hut for their conference and all their MP's could share the one taxi to the palace of fools as for the conservatives and nu-labour i would wish that they followed the dinosaurs into extinction



It's what happened to the rump Liberal and SDP parties so we can hope


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2013)

SikhWarrioR said:


> I would rather the Libdem's would fill a scout hut for their conference and all their MP's could share the one taxi to the palace of fools as for the conservatives and nu-labour i would wish that they followed the dinosaurs into extinction



You and me both.  Never has the phrase "same shit, different arseholes" been so apposite, than with our Yellow, Red and Blue neoliberals.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 17, 2013)

Why legalising cannabis isn't logical http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/16/legalising-cannabis-isnt-logical

Worst article in the Graunid in a while


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 17, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Why legalising cannabis isn't logical http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/16/legalising-cannabis-isnt-logical
> 
> Worst article in the Graunid in a while


----------



## J Ed (Sep 17, 2013)

> I don't live in a stately home built during the reign of Henry VIII. I live in Balham, south-west London, and I remember very well how in July 2001 they started a 13-month decriminalisation trial in Lambeth. During that time, you couldn't walk to the station in the morning without getting high on the smoke being puffed out all over the place by every Nike-wearing hoodlum.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 17, 2013)

Heh, reading the opening comments the majority seem to to think it is vacuous drivel as well.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 17, 2013)

Of course as we all know, liberalising drug laws always leads to a massive increase in drug consumption


----------



## belboid (Sep 17, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Why legalising cannabis isn't logical http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/16/legalising-cannabis-isnt-logical
> 
> Worst article in the Graunid in a while


I'm sorry, but you cant say that.Not on a day when they also have a feature on.... Cats DoingYoga


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 17, 2013)

> Melissa Kite is a very accomplished woman. She tells us so herself: 'I had a private education, got four A levels, an upper second class Bachelor of Arts degree from London University and a postgraduate diploma in journalism. I have worked in some of the world's most challenging trouble spots…' Very impressive, I'm sure.
> 
> And your point is, Melissa?
> 
> ...


----------



## Tankus (Sep 17, 2013)

teqniq said:


> Heh, reading the opening comments the majority seem to to think it is vacuous drivel as well.


Then again if that was the daily fail , 1000 plus comments and thousands of likes/dislikes would be considered a good result , regardless what was written. Haven't all UK dead tree press distanced themselves from Pulitzer material, ? It just takes too long ,'rarely has tits and arses , costs too much , and only  brings the meat home for their already well fed legal teams.

All the printers are playing a losing hand anyway.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 17, 2013)

What?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 17, 2013)

J Ed said:


> "I don't live in a stately home built during the reign of Henry VIII. I live in Balham, south-west London, and I remember very well how in July 2001 they started a 13-month decriminalisation trial in Lambeth. During that time, you couldn't walk to the station in the morning without getting high on the smoke being puffed out all over the place by every Nike-wearing hoodlum."



That Graun quote doesn't quite make sense.
Transport-wise, the writer wouldn't need to go anywhere near any of the entrances to stations in Lambeth, if she lives in Balham.  She could easily transfer elsewhere for most (all?) journeys.
So, how was her walk to the station getting her high?  Balham isn't in Lambeth, it's in Wandsworth, who *weren't* running a decriminalisation trial.

Methinks the wee lassie is doing a Johann Hari.


----------



## Belushi (Sep 17, 2013)

> I don't live in a stately home built during the reign of Henry VIII. I live in Balham, south-west London, and I remember very well how in July 2001 they started a 13-month decriminalisation trial in Lambeth. During that time, you couldn't walk to the station in the morning without getting high on the smoke being puffed out all over the place by every Nike-wearing hoodlum.


 
I lived in Balham at that time and that simply isn't true.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 17, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I lived in Balham at that time and that simply isn't true.


Indeed. What sort of goon wears nike nowadays?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 17, 2013)

i don't know how that person manages to get out of bed let alone get an article in the grauniad


----------



## Corax (Sep 17, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Why legalising cannabis isn't logical http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/16/legalising-cannabis-isnt-logical
> 
> Worst article in the Graunid in a while





> I accept there are sick people who claim cannabis is the only analgesic in existence that will give them pain relief, despite there being literally hundreds of alternatives .


What an incredibly snide sentence.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 17, 2013)

She seems to have a Spectator column which is apparently about boyfriends and horses. It is, seriously, called "Real Life".


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 17, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> i don't know how that person manages to get out of bed let alone get an article in the grauniad


I do.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 17, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I lived in Balham at that time and that simply isn't true.



I lived between Tooting Bec and Balham Stations for 9 months of that period and that is absolute bollocks. An outright lie.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 17, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> She seems to have a Spectator column which is apparently about boyfriends and horses. It is, seriously, called "Real Life".



"Real life: I always regress to a three-year-old when my horses aren’t well" Not just one horse either. Hors_es_. Plural.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 17, 2013)

so the gist of the article is cannabis shouldn't be dcriminalised cos frightful proles will smoke it? Hopefully one of them horses will throw her into a ditch. fatally.


----------



## TruXta (Sep 17, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> so the gist of the article is cannabis shouldn't be dcriminalised cos frightful proles will smoke it? Hopefully one of them horses will throw her into a ditch. fatally.


It's alright if they wear Pumas. Anything but Nikes really.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 17, 2013)

cynicaleconomy said:


> "Real life: I always regress to a three-year-old when my horses aren’t well" Not just one horse either. Hors_es_. Plural.



Brilliant writing in that



> ‘Don’t be silly. You haven’t broken her. I’m on my way.’ Lieve is my fourth emergency service. She is like the AA, only for things with four legs, not four wheels.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 17, 2013)

Belushi said:


> I lived in Balham at that time and that simply isn't true.



Like I said, a bit Johann Hari.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 17, 2013)

> I even listen sympathetically to what the "give-a-spliff-a-chance" brigade say about not criminalising "recreational" users who are, apparently, perfectly normal, functioning citizens who should not be labelled criminals.



the fuck,


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 17, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Brilliant writing in that
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The 48 Steps Program?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 17, 2013)




----------



## frogwoman (Sep 17, 2013)

that article is absolutely hideous

ffs


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 17, 2013)

Corax said:


> What an incredibly snide sentence.



Daft sod doesn't get that it's all about the side-effects of the vast majority of pharmaceutical analgesics and muscle relaxants (dizziness and nausea being right up there!), not the quality of analgesia (of which cannabis has very little) that people smoke it for.  It can suppress nausea and relax muscles in very small quantities, and if you're vapourising, is probably going to have less of a toxic effect if you're using long-term than many synthetics.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 17, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> She seems to have a Spectator column which is apparently about boyfriends and horses. It is, seriously, called "Real Life".



The only question that occurs to me is which one does she fuck, the boyfriend or the horse?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 17, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> so the gist of the article is cannabis shouldn't be dcriminalised cos frightful proles will smoke it? Hopefully one of them horses will throw her into a ditch. fatally.



And then maybe trample on her a bit "just to make sure", like.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 17, 2013)

> It is a misconception to say you have to either legalise everything or ban everything. What is needed, more than ever in our "everything goes" society, is a bit of restraint every now and again. If the only thing we ever achieve with drugs policy is to make sure our kids don't get the idea to try drugs after inhaling secondhand skunk while they are walking to school, we can at least look ourselves in the mirror.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 17, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> so the gist of the article is cannabis shouldn't be dcriminalised cos frightful proles will smoke it? Hopefully one of them horses will throw her into a ditch. fatally.



It's more like don't legalise it because nike wearing 'hoodlums' (that's meant to be racial isn't it?) will hang around forcing you to be stoned 24/7 whenever you go to or from a normal every day activity like instructing the help on mucking out one of your horses or travelling between the Guardian and the Spectator offices.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 18, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/slapper-my-real-name-proud-of-it

not sure what to make of this tbh


----------



## belboid (Sep 18, 2013)

it's just click bait in exactly the same way as the Mail's soft porn and Liz Jones articles are (the wotsername on legalising dope thing, not whatever froggers has just posted)


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 18, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/slapper-my-real-name-proud-of-it
> 
> not sure what to make of this tbh



I wonder if she's any relation?

http://www.theguardian.com/profile/gary-slapper


----------



## benedict (Sep 19, 2013)

More pointless salivation over Apple products.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Sep 19, 2013)

Not really in the spirit of this thread but I notice the Guardian got rid of a professional journalist and has replaced him with two amateur bloggers. Namely green lifestyle guru Leo Hickman got punted and has been sort of replaced with Dana Nuccitelli and John Abraham.

Less blog posts about how many carbon molecules are in your fair trade moka java from Costa and more blogs ripping into the right wing cunts lying about climate change.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Sep 20, 2013)

benedict said:


> More pointless salivation over Apple products.



As in crapple who apparently have been having problems with ios7?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 20, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/20/labour-welfare-cap

More ultra-blairite shite about welfare in the Guardian, proper dross.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 20, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/20/labour-welfare-cap
> 
> More ultra-blairite shite about welfare in the Guardian, proper dross.



Well...



> *Graeme Cooke *
> 
> *Profile*
> Graeme Cooke is research director of the IPPR


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 23, 2013)

Corax said:


> What an incredibly snide sentence.



It's horrid isn't it? It bascially translates as, 'I know more about the experiences of disabled people than they do themselves' which is a staggeringly cuntish thing to say.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 23, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Why legalising cannabis isn't logical http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/16/legalising-cannabis-isnt-logical
> 
> Worst article in the Graunid in a while



'Unleashing more cannabis onto our streets' ffs 

I dunno about where she lives but round here there's a pretty constant low-level fug of weed smoke in the air already. There's also several little gangs of young lads constantly hanging around the place trying to sell weed to anyone who walks past, including kids. This gives the police an ideal pretext for their favourite hobby, harassing young asian and black men.

The big players in the weed trade, meanwhile, can not only afford to buy immunity from police interference (generally in the form of a 24-hour advanced warning of when their door will get kicked in) but also fast cars which they drive around our narrow, busy streets at breakneck speed just to show off how big their dicks aren't. One such went past my window as I was typing the previous sentence. 

Drugs = illegal because drugs = bad is not an argument that holds any water, because it's obvious that prohibition doesn't actually stop people taking drugs, it just makes the trade in and use of drugs a lot more problematic for society as a whole.

Of course any legalisation would probably be designed to hand the market over to big corporations instead of enterprising small time growers, so that's not a perfect solution either. 

/derail


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 23, 2013)

ferrelhadley said:


> Not really in the spirit of this thread but I notice the Guardian got rid of a professional journalist and has replaced him with two amateur bloggers. Namely green lifestyle guru Leo Hickman got punted and has been sort of replaced with Dana Nuccitelli and John Abraham.
> 
> Less blog posts about how many carbon molecules are in your fair trade moka java from Costa and more blogs ripping into the right wing cunts lying about climate change.



The guardian weekend supplements are always full of adverts for the new Jaguar, holidays in some banana republic whose dictator just hired his first PR and marketing department and articles about what's the best pair of flip flops for under 250 quid. These are then plonked in next to some bullshit about reducing your carbon footprint by turning your used tetra paks into bathroom tiles. Utterly nauseating.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 23, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> The guardian weekend supplements are always full of adverts for the new Jaguar, holidays in some banana republic whose dictator just hired his first PR and marketing department and articles about what's the best pair of flip flops for under 250 quid. These are then plonked in next to some bullshit about reducing your carbon footprint by turning your used tetra paks into bathroom tiles. Utterly nauseating.




My least favourite Guardian article of all time was "Scandinavia's coolest treehouses".


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 23, 2013)

That reminds me of full-page adverts for bargain 'five-star' holidays to fancy-looking resorts in Sri Lanka back in 2009 (although not in the Guardian).  With little risk of your stay at an 'exclusive' hideaway being inconvenienced by an ongoing bloodbath.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 23, 2013)

Simon Jenkins has come up with a brilliant way to stop all terrorism - stop gathering lots of people together in public http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/23/kenya-mall-attacks-david-cameron


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 23, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Simon Jenkins has come up with a brilliant way to stop all terrorism - stop gathering lots of people together in public http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/23/kenya-mall-attacks-david-cameron



He's kind of missed the point, hasn't he?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 23, 2013)

Wow, he was getting such a hammering that they removed the comments


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 23, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Simon Jenkins has come up with a brilliant way to stop all terrorism - stop gathering lots of people together in public http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/23/kenya-mall-attacks-david-cameron





> The Queen was doing Kenyan crises before he was born.



Err, doing what about them exactly? Might she, by any chance, have done precisely fuck all?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 23, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Wow, he was getting such a hammering that they removed the comments



You'd think it would make more sense to remove the article itself...

...particularly as it's one of the stupider things I've ever read. By implication he seems to think that, for example, the victims of the Boston Marathon attack have only themselves to blame for going to see a marathon in the first place


----------



## Corax (Sep 23, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's horrid isn't it? It bascially translates as, 'I know more about the experiences of disabled people than they do themselves' which is a staggeringly cuntish thing to say.


Yes.  I bet they did air-quotes with their fingers as they were typing "claim".


----------



## J Ed (Sep 23, 2013)

Comments are back lol


----------



## Favelado (Sep 24, 2013)

Thank GOD they're road-testing skinny jeans today. I mean, there can't be anything else going on in the world that a major newspaper could stick on its front page.

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/fashion-blog/2013/sep/24/topman-spray-on-jeans-roadtested

At least it's not one of the "How to wear" articles. How patronising is that? Being told how to wear some clothes by a vapid fuckpig in N1.

How much money have they got left? I'll be sad if the Guardian disappears, but less and less so with every passing day.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Sep 24, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Comments are back lol



And how many of them are missing.....All the comments that make jenkins look the fool he is


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Sep 24, 2013)

How much money have they got left? I'll be sad if the Guardian disappears, but less and less so with every passing day.


After 13 years as the  mouthpiece of the grinning spinning blair's nu-labour and since 2010 the mouthpiece of cleggnocchio's libdems i for one wont miss the gaurdian when it finally goes under


----------



## Favelado (Sep 24, 2013)

SikhWarrioR said:


> How much money have they got left? I'll be sad if the Guardian disappears, but less and less so with every passing day.
> 
> 
> After 13 years as the  mouthpiece of the grinning spinning blair's nu-labour and since 2010 the mouthpiece of cleggnocchio's libdems i for one wont miss the gaurdian when it finally goes under



I can understand that point of view but I still feel that it does act as source of some left-wing opinion and generally acts as opposition to the Tories. I think any significant anti-Tory voice is important in the media, however flawed it is.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 24, 2013)

Favelado said:


> I can understand that point of view but I still feel that it does act as source of some left-wing opinion and generally acts as opposition to the Tories. I think any significant anti-Tory voice is important in the media, however flawed it is.



That's dependent on what you choose to define as "left".
Are they "opposition to the Tories"? In a basic "we don't agree with how you're doing things" way, then sure they are.  As opposers of the neoliberal consensus, though, they're as far up capitalism's arse as the Tories and the Lib-Dems are.
As for them being "left", of course they're left of the government, and on individual questions sometimes to the left of Labour, but that's hardly a feat, is it, given that Labour is as firmly planted in centrism as it's ever been in the past 3 decades.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 24, 2013)

It's not a feat at all VP and I wouldn't disagree with your post. I think they offer opposition to some of the most pernicious voices in British politics such as UKIP and the Tories whilst often offering support to other still quite pernicious ones. They do also offer a voice for anti-racism and anti-sexism that acts as a counterpoint to the outright evil of some of the right-wing papers. Social issues relating to poverty and equality are covered in the Guardian in a way that most of the papers don't give a shit about.

They are completely up-the-arse of neo-liberal capitalism and it's right that they are pilloried for that on here. If a better paper than The Guardian came along, one with better politics, less articles about cool treehouses and one committed to something resembling genuine socialism I would much prefer it. However, if it's a choice between The Guardian offering some kind of anti-Tory agenda and nothing at all, I'm going to go with the former. Unenthusiastically!


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 26, 2013)

Just been in a fascinating discussion with the Guardian community moderators about why my posts are pre moderated.



> Please note that we take abuse of our writers very seriously. To ensure that the sanction on your account is lifted sooner rather than later, it would be best to limit your criticism to the specific content of articles, rather than attempting to identify bias or inconsistency in their output. When comments contain nothing but this sort of personal attack, they are unlikely to be published.



Four out of my last thirty so so posts made the point that two journalists wrote disproportionately about and were biased towards about Manchester United.( one has written two books about Man United and the other appears on the radio to talk about Man Utd)  I also pointed out that where as one wrote volumes on John Terry when he was deemed by the FAto have made a racist remark that he completely abstained on the appointment of a fascist in Di Cannio.

Comment is free/comes at a price

https://id.theguardian.com/profile/39thstep


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2013)

> it would be best to limit your criticism to the specific content of articles, rather than attempting to identify bias or inconsistency in their output.



what? is it me or does that just contradict itself?


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2013)

Favelado said:


> How much money have they got left? I'll be sad if the Guardian disappears, but less and less so with every passing day.


think i read an article last year that suggested they have 4 years left before they run out of reserves. it won't 'go under' then though - second most popular online news site in the world isn't it? it'll get bought, things will continue, but with even less journalists.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> what? is it me or does that just contradict itself?



Its a recognition on their behalf that they are dealing with an intellectual and literary giant


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 27, 2013)

It would be churlish not to congratulate The Graun on the Qatar World Cup story. We might all have guessed it, but The Graun did the legwork and got the attention. It's a comparatively rare case where something significant improvements may come as a result of a story. Even the usually scuzzy FIFA may actually be shamed for once.


----------



## classicdish (Sep 27, 2013)

What do people think about their new website design?

I preferred the old one that had an overview of almost the entire contents on the front page - I could scan it quickly and pick out all the stories I wanted to read quickly, opening them all in new tabs.

The new website has a few massive pictures one for each story and can only fit one or two on my screen at a time which makes an overview impossible. The text/font under these pictures also appears mangled on my desktop screen. Does this new style work better on iPads or smartphones something? On my desktop PC it looks shit and is very hard to use.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 30, 2013)

> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/29/10-tips-help-daughters-change-world
> 
> *Ten tips to help our daughters change the world*
> How do we encourage young women to enter public life? Here is the girls' guide to 21st-century politics



No room for "Get born the daughter of an ex cabinet minister" in the list I notice.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 30, 2013)

Nor _give them a job editing the online section of the newspaper that you edit but get her to change her name for work so no one notices._


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 30, 2013)

> Most campaigning/public life is not about self-obsessed, besuited bores desperate to get ahead, but brings you into contact with idealistic, lively people who want to change the world.




is this the most Guardian line ever?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 30, 2013)

with his suit and tie


----------



## treelover (Sep 30, 2013)

> *Andy Burnham*, the shadow health secretary, has written to Lord Patten, the chair of the BBC Trust, to ask why the BBC gave so little coverage to the pro-NHS, anti-austerity march outside the Conservative conference in Manchester yesterday. His letter is on the LabourList website. Here's an extract.I attended the event and was proud to walk alongside doctors, nurses and other front-line NHS staff from all parts of the country who had given up their Sunday in the hope of making their voice heard. From my observation, NHS staff made up a significant proportion of the large crowd.
> It was therefore a real surprise to me to return home to find what I consider only cursory coverage of the event on BBC news bulletins. As far I could see, there was no specific coverage and it was only mentioned in the wider context of Conservative Party Conference. There was no explanation as to why people were there in such large numbers nor direct interviews with participants to find out what had prompted them to travel so far on a Sunday.By any reckoning, this was a major national protest and it seems to me that the BBC’s coverage did not reflect this. Indeed, other major news channels seemed to reach a different editorial judgement, covering the story in more depth and interviewing participants.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 30, 2013)

"Skateboarding in Afghanistan." Better than the web-based Guardian headline generator could do.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/ga...teistan-skateboarding-afghanistan-in-pictures


----------



## killer b (Sep 30, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> No room for "Get born the daughter of an ex cabinet minister" in the list I notice.


 I spotted this at my mums, couldn't bring myself to read it. Is it as vapid as the subheadings suggest?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 30, 2013)

killer b said:


> I spotted this at my mums, couldn't bring myself to read it. Is it as vapid as the subheadings suggest?



Pretty much. She actually says 'get a gang'.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 3, 2013)

> We consider that each of these comments, in its own way, insinuates that our writers are unable to provide unbiased journalism and thereby impugns their integrity and professionalism. As I've already explained, we allow strong criticism of the substance of articles, but we regard denigrating the motives of writers to be author abuse, which breaches point one of the community standards.



I must write to the Mail accusing them of a pro Tory agenda over their Milliband article


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2013)

The most memorable tweets of all time: which ones stand out for you?

oh journalists


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 5, 2013)

Barely memorable tweets, more like.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2013)

equationgirl said:


> Barely memorable tweets, more like.


I liked this


> 2. The tweet that launched a meme. The 28 April will forever be known as #EdBallsday, when two years ago Labour's shadow chancellor tweeted his own name from his own account and didn't delete it:
> 
> Ed Balls
> 
> — Ed Balls (@edballsmp) April 28, 2011


NOBODY HAS EVER HEARD OF THAT


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2013)




----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 6, 2013)

^ One of the few toffs I like.  Dunno why, but I do!


----------



## J Ed (Oct 6, 2013)

He's always on the TV too, I have no idea why as he is so boring


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 6, 2013)

I like his River Cottage stuff and his general enthusiasm for grub.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 6, 2013)

The British population can be categorised into 7 'tribes' of people based on their view to Britain. Cringe. Cringe. Cringe.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/06/what-makes-modern-britain-great-tribes


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

First one: heroes Assange and Shami Chakrabati:



> Whose pride makes them cringe?
> 
> The monarchists. It's a national embarrassment that we're not grown up enough to vote for our head of state. Try to escape to Paris for any major royal occasion.



That's Shami Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire and Assange who has proven singularly inept as escaping anywhere.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 6, 2013)

Where do the percentages come from? There's nothing wrong with segmentational analysis if you've made the effort to carry out some structured attitudinal research and then done some painstaking and clever extrapolation to model out from the sample. But I don't get the impression that British Future has done anything of the kind. It's like a small child pretending to do market research.


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 6, 2013)

J Ed said:


> The British population can be categorised into 7 'tribes' of people based on their view to Britain. Cringe. Cringe. Cringe.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/06/what-makes-modern-britain-great-tribes



What a load of stunningly vapid cockrot.

It's basically a pissweak farrago of metropolitan liberal prejudice and stereotype. A classic of the "Will Thisdo / Phil Space" genre.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

Excellent i'm excluded from all catergories - i don't belong to a modern britain. So is everyone i know. By an oxbridge boy. Note no mention of that tribe.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 6, 2013)

steeplejack said:


> A classic of the "Will Thisdo / Phil Space" genre.



It's not "Phil Space", this is not hackery. It's a free sample of ideas from a group of c-list wonks,  hoping to be taken up by politicians. The Guardian has given it a home because there is no such thing as free content that it would refuse. What's astonishing is how trite the insight is and that such a thing as British Future keeps these people gainfully employed.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Excellent i'm excluded from all catergories - i don't belong to a modern britain. So is everyone i know. By an oxbridge boy. Note no mention of that tribe.



You're not a patriot. The pretended survey base excludes a large number of Britain-haters.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> You're not a patriot. The pretended survey base excludes a large number of Britain-haters.


_No room for non-patriots in modern Britain says Oxbridge Fabian._


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

It get's even better, this is basically a puff piece for this BF and IPPR event England, my England: A festival of Englishness



> Confirmed speakers so far include:
> 
> RSC and National Theatre playwright David Edgar
> Historian, broadcaster and Labour MP Tristram Hunt
> ...



But the key thing is:



> Featuring the launch of the fiftieth anniversary edition of E P Thompson's classic social history, The Making of the English Working Class, with Michael Kenny, author of the book's new introduction.



This is who owns E.P Thompson, he's part of their England now.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 6, 2013)

> http://www.ippr.org/events/54/10671/england-my-england-a-festival-of-englishness


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2013)

> Head of Labour policy review Jon Cruddas MP



FORWARDS COMRADES




none of the panel of usual suspects has read Making of the English Working Class either


----------



## Belushi (Oct 6, 2013)

Or likes the English working class, outside of books.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2013)

yes well we are always such a disappointment to the fabian set


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

Missed all this:

The readers' editor on… the Guardian's line on the Liberal Democrats

and

The readers' editor on… the editor's response to critics of the Guardian's line on the Liberal Democrats


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2013)

their commitment to giving ex-cons a second chance is admirable - huhne has another column this week. 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/06/prism-tempora-cabinet-surveillance-state


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Missed all this:
> 
> The readers' editor on… the Guardian's line on the Liberal Democrats
> 
> ...



Holy fuck! Rushbridger actually said this....



> "But to have Clegg and the Lib Dems ameliorating what the Tories could have done means that the past three years have been less bad than than they could have been. On the other hand, the Lib Dems have been quite disappointing in many respects; they have lost that distinctive edge and haven't spoken out about what we care about.



Erm.....run that past me again....why are the tories in government at all?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2013)

killer b said:


> their commitment to giving ex-cons a second chance is admirable - huhne has another column this week.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/06/prism-tempora-cabinet-surveillance-state


They've got to keep his new partner on side - after all, she sells them sex-gossip about high-profile people. What a couple.


----------



## Maggot (Oct 6, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


>


 Why did you post this?   Needs some comment or context.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2013)

it really doesn't


----------



## FNG (Oct 7, 2013)

best bit 





> . Some of our decisions in the past have been tactical and lukewarm. I don't think the time has come to break with tradition."


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 7, 2013)

Pryce:



> In Pryce's capacious black handbag, whose contents were enumerated and bagged pending her transfer to Holloway women's prison, security guards found "in between diaries, packets of tissues, cheque books, loose credit and store cards, letters and newspaper clippings" a grand total of £1,490 in cash, including nearly £100 in coins.



Odd they run a laugh at her piece and _Chris is great_ on the same day.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 7, 2013)

the real story there is of course this:



> Contrary to their TV image, women's prisons aren't all bad. Pryce, at any rate, says she "encountered no animosity, sniping, bitching or negative treatment from anyone, inmates or officers". She was, though, shocked by the "number of cases where the girls had done something wrong – *but usually for, with, or forced to by their husbands, boyfriends, brothers or fathers"*.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 7, 2013)

They were both innocent - taken down for questioning murdoch.

I'd like to see her figures btw


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2013)

nice to see screws supplementing their income by flogging tawdry details to the press as well


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 8, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> yes well we are always such a disappointment to the fabian set



Thank fuck.

Probably why the cunts originally wanted to eugenicise us.


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 16, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2013/oct/15/spot-if-cannabis-farm-next-door
The Guardian uses a crappy police press release to encourage readers to inform on pot growers. This fine piece of churnalism would not have looked out of place in the daily heil.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2013/oct/15/spot-if-cannabis-farm-next-door
> The Guardian uses a crappy police press release to encourage readers to inform on pot growers. This fine piece of churnalism would not have looked out of place in the daily heil.


police press release?


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 16, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> police press release?


http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2012/20120430CBACCofCPP.pdf


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/crime/2012/20120430CBACCofCPP.pdf


so you think they're using a press release from april LAST YEAR? and a press release which - though on the same subject - contains few if any of the claims in the guardian report? yeh the guardian's shit. but there's enough shit about it that you don't need to cobble shite together about it.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 19, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/oct/19/david-birnbaum-jeweller-philosopher

If I was a cynic I might think this drivel was paid for by the subject.

from here http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/im-on-the-verge-of-a-philosophical-breakthrough.315061/page-2


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2013)




----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 22, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/22/rachel-reeves-thickest-skin-labour-best-hope


Tonybee gets it wrong again and also manages to sound pompous


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 22, 2013)

Where is articul8 hiding himself now i wonder.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 22, 2013)

not hiding - why do you ask?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 22, 2013)

Have you reassessed your views on the _talented _Rachel Reeves?


----------



## articul8 (Oct 22, 2013)

No, she is talented - sadly her talents are going to waste in justifying a harsh neoliberal rhetoric on welfare.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 22, 2013)

Who on earth could have imagined such a far fetched thing happening when she was appointed eh?


----------



## articul8 (Oct 22, 2013)

the optimism of the will was getting a bit carried away with itself


----------



## brogdale (Oct 24, 2013)

tbf...only a comment on Moore's piece...but wow....



> brizsam
> 24 October 2013 8:29am
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 24, 2013)

is that taking the piss?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2013)

Course it is.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 24, 2013)




----------



## Combustible (Oct 24, 2013)

The worst thing about this article might be that she seems to genuinely think the problem with internships is that "they feel that their talents aren't recognised, their skills aren't praised highly and that they will never get a chance to dazzle in the way they were meant to if they spend all day in a fashion cupboard or bent over a photocopier". A startling lack of awareness.

Also without internships there is a danger that jobs in the media will go to the entitled and well connected. What a terrible state of affairs that would be.



> Internships should open doors. Without them, the exciting, entry-level jobs will go straight to the entitled, connected people who have not necessarily done the groundwork that will help them to appreciate the opportunities that lie ahead. If the media is going to stay interesting, it needs an influx of passionate people who are good at smiling and saying yes and are happy to get their hands dirty. It's how I started out, and it worked for all my colleagues as well. It's because of internships that we're all now working.




http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/24/internships-can-open-doors-interns-conde-nast[/quote]


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2013)

> I was a magazine intern, then a staffer and intern booker



who paid your rent


----------



## teqniq (Oct 26, 2013)

Beijing knife attack leaves two dead in Forbidden City


Sad for the victims and their families, but then the Graun goes on to say in seeking further info on the attack:

"The Forbidden City could not be reached for comment."

Maybe because it's forbidden eh? Who the fuck writes this shit? 

Jonathan Kaiman in Beijing, apparently. Please tell me he or his editor is taking the piss.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 26, 2013)

Eh? It's a museum, run by bureaucrats. It would be reasonable to expect there to be someone to answer the phone, if not an actual press officer.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 26, 2013)

You are of course right but I just thought it was unintentionally funny, in a dark sort of way.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 26, 2013)

To the moderate extent that it was funny, I'd have thought that it it was intentionally so.


----------



## weepiper (Oct 26, 2013)

Oh my.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/oct/26/tim-dowling-cleaner-leaving

As a friend of mine just said



> Robina must be some woman to have put up with the kind of heartless shits who would pay to send their own kid on a school trip to Kampala such that the kid met Robina's first grandchild when she never has, rather than the whole crew of exploiters chipping in to pay for a ticket home for their servant.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 26, 2013)

> She's not much on snakes, though. I actually thought she might quit the first time the snakes escaped, but over the years she got used to finding them at the bottom of cupboards, and eventually developed a grudging fondness for them that would not, she told me, be considered normal in Uganda. At one point, she even insisted on posing with both snakes draped over her arms so she could send the picture to her relatives.
> 
> "They'll think I'm a witch," she said.



Maybe they were afraid for her safety.


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 27, 2013)

"I was a magazine intern, then a staffer and intern booker"
New Bragg song?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 27, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> who paid your rent



Well exactly. I know a few people who got internships at the Graunid from the student media awards, meritocracy in action right? Well not really cos they could only afford to stay in London and do it for a week, not nearly long enough contributing free labour to the Graunid (as a prize FFS) to establish yourself even with a chance at one of those entry level jobs.

But I'm sure those who can afford it can do so because they deserve it more and are better writers, nothing to do with connections or money


----------



## J Ed (Nov 2, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/02/saudi-protest-driving-ban-not-popular

Saudi man explains to West that they should not speak on behalf of Saudi women (that's his job) and that Saudi women are clamouring against Western imperialism + Orientalism to ensure that they should continue to be banned from driving


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 3, 2013)

Real headline: Greece relieved as troika agrees to return to country


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 3, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/03/greece-troika

Unnamed "Greek government official" relieved.


----------



## Favelado (Nov 3, 2013)

The other day, the headline chosen by the sub-editor was, "By 'eck, what's so chuffing great about Yorkshire?" A Manchester-born paper being as patronising as that to Northerners.


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 4, 2013)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/02/saudi-protest-driving-ban-not-popular
> 
> Saudi man explains to West that they should not speak on behalf of Saudi women (that's his job) and that Saudi women are clamouring against Western imperialism + Orientalism to ensure that they should continue to be banned from driving


 Nice to see it get a well deserved kicking in the comments....


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2013)

> Four days earlier, the Guardian had published its front-page story about Milly Dowler's phone been hacked and Brooks, then News International chief executive, was suggesting the company should announce it would launch a full investigation into what happened at the News of the World.



Pay family, get family quality.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 5, 2013)

Guido Fawkes is reporting that the Graunid were advertising a male-only job in Saudi here http://jobs.theguardian.com/job/4726441/account-director/


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Richard Dawkins tweets about how Bin Laden has won because he had some honey confiscated at an airport. People take the piss. So the Guardian gives him a Comment Is Free article to talk about how public-spirited he is.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/05/honey-trap-plane-richard-dawkins-twitter

"But because the honey was mine not a young mother's, my motive could surely not be other than selfish." 

(I see the phrase "a puerile display of sniggering frivolity" is already being latched on to.)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

In case you didn't catch it, btw, it did generate the game "Richard Dawkins: Honey Defender" within hours, where you have to guide Richard Dawkins around on a giant bee, collecting honey before airport security can get to it, while avoiding bumping into any religious figures or he will stop to send them an angry tweet.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 5, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Richard Dawkins tweets about how Bin Laden has won because he had some honey confiscated at an airport. People take the piss.


 
Just found out about 'honeygate' - he would seem top have a point that it's a victory for a group whose aim is to force nonsense rituals upon everyone if we respond to them by forcing nonsense rituals upon everyone.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 5, 2013)

> The possibility of a global shortage of sriracha sauce horrified chilli lovers everywhere.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Real headline: Greece relieved as troika agrees to return to country


Today: Greek protesters rally against IMF and EU inspection

(ta to fm for the link earlier, couldn't do it on that _device_)


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 5, 2013)

Combustible said:


> The worst thing about this article might be that she seems to genuinely think the problem with internships is that "they feel that their talents aren't recognised, their skills aren't praised highly and that they will never get a chance to dazzle in the way they were meant to if they spend all day in a fashion cupboard or bent over a photocopier". A startling lack of awareness.
> 
> Also without internships there is a danger that jobs in the media will go to the entitled and well connected. What a terrible state of affairs that would be.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/24/internships-can-open-doors-interns-conde-nast



That would be the same Conde Nast that's recently decided to stop taking any interns becuase of lawsuits in the US to do with employment rights of interns, yes?

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=392a1d3c-a363-4643-a083-7da2291f0b95

So far this is only the US arm of Conde Nast for certain but I wouldn't be surprised if they've just stopped all interns across all offices.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 9, 2013)

I fell off a cliff


----------



## brogdale (Nov 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I fell off a cliff
> 
> View attachment 43215


http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...threads-and-naming-living-individuals.300541/


----------



## brogdale (Nov 9, 2013)

Not this?

"Defective carrots"


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 9, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Not this?
> 
> "Defective carrots"


Some choice tripe today ain't there. I can never remember if we made this one up on MATB or if it was genuine:


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 9, 2013)

> I play sax in a psychoderelict surf goth band.



http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2013/nov/09/weekender-david-baby-sculptor


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 9, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2013/nov/09/weekender-david-baby-sculptor



Short version:



> farmers' market...biodynamic vegetables...cycle of the moon...Corsica...house in a village...big log fires...made marzipan from scratch...fried slice of _ventre..._fabulous...


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 10, 2013)

From their website... So apparently the real deal


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 10, 2013)

Back in the early eighties I worked as a 'lad' in a art room at a printers. We used lettraset catalogues and photocopied them to size before cutting them and pasting them physically onto picture backgrounds.
 I don't think even at the age of 16 I ever produced anything so shoddy.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 10, 2013)

There's a site called "Photoshop Disasters" that you could send that to.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 13, 2013)

Middle class people patting someone with an accent on the head for having an accent.



> adored for her populist, prickly comedy


----------



## J Ed (Nov 13, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...es-national-foundation-for-education-research

The title is 'Academies leading the way at GCSE, study finds'

but, as a commenter points out



> They are not comparing like with like. Remove the effect of gaming the system by including NVQ's and there is no difference despite selection, and higher funding. That's what the article says, but central office PR has done it's job because it's not what the headline says. Lazy Guardian, very lazy. By the way, most of the vocational qualifications have a large element of course work, which is a no no for Gove - when it suits him.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 13, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/13/prince-charles-65-new-kind-heir



> He is the heir to the grandest and most glittering monarchy on the planet, the recipient of a personal income of £19m last year from the Duchy of Cornwall, but on 22 November, Prince Charles will find himself even better off, if briefly. Thirty-seven years after retiring from the Royal Navy, the prince will at last see the benefit of national insurance contributions made during his short military career (along with voluntary contributions paid subsequently), when he claims his state pension.
> 
> Having decided several weeks ago to exercise his rights like any ordinary pensioner, the first weekly payment of up to £110.15 will drop into the princely bank account at the end of his first full week as a 65-year-old. (It will then be donated to a charity for the elderly.)



Jesus....


----------



## gosub (Nov 13, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/media/media-blog/2013/nov/13/alastair-campbell-journalism-lectures


FIND:
Iraq - :1
WMD - : 0 (coincidently equals amount found in Iraq)


----------



## Ground Elder (Nov 15, 2013)

*The 10 best council estates*
From Aberdeen's rugged Gallowgate to the castle-like crown of Harlow's Bishopsfield, the Observer's architecture critic Rowan Moore chooses his favourite council estates http://www.theguardian.com/culture/...ing?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## 8ball (Nov 16, 2013)

I quite liked this:




			
				Lucy Mangan said:
			
		

> Feminism doesn't need rebranding. It just needs to overcome the people-pleasing instincts of its majority members and focus on a few core issues, and then beat the shit out of everything and everyone in its way until those issues are satisfactorily resolved.


 
From: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/16/feminism-rebranding-lucy-mangan


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 17, 2013)

Ground Elder said:


> *The 10 best council estates*
> From Aberdeen's rugged Gallowgate to the castle-like crown of Harlow's Bishopsfield, the Observer's architecture critic Rowan Moore chooses his favourite council estates http://www.theguardian.com/culture/...ing?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Shit photo of the Gallowgate estate in Aberdeen. What is doesn't show is that is that it is on top of a hill overlooking the North Sea. Stunning views of the coastline and bang in the town centre.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2013)

Odd one this. Disgraced drug cheat and proven liar who tried to financially ruin person who helped expose him 'confront's her?



The story actually says that he didn't apologise to her as well. Maybe they should tell whoever write the blurb.

Note:



> Armstrong reacted by taking legal action against O'Reilly, who is from Dublin but now runs a physiotherapy clinic in Hale, Cheshire, accused her of being an alcoholic and made other disparaging comments about her which he now admits were lies.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/12/john-major-david-cameron-over-privileged

is there anything less funny in the entire world than the guardian trying?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/12/john-major-david-cameron-over-privileged
> 
> is there anything less funny in the entire world than the guardian trying?


Why on earth did that oxbridge woman write that? Was she asked to?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why on earth did that oxbridge woman write that? Was she asked to?




it's part of a series of _hilare _writings imagining samcams thoughts. I keep reading them and wanting to stab myself in the eyeballs afterwards


----------



## cesare (Nov 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/12/john-major-david-cameron-over-privileged
> 
> is there anything less funny in the entire world than the guardian trying?


*cringe*


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> it's part of a series of _hilare _writings imagining samcams thoughts. I keep reading them and wanting to stab myself in the eyeballs afterwards


But...but...why? Someone somewhere thought a) this was a good idea and b) that this series is working. 

We need to find that person. And quickly.


----------



## Nylock (Nov 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/nov/12/john-major-david-cameron-over-privileged
> 
> is there anything less funny in the entire world than the guardian trying?


My eyes! 

That is, like, totally cringeworthy


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2013)

> Dave's like, OMG, was he not talking Australian, Cobber's like, no mate. Dave's like, God, who knew the man was so still so seriously chippy? I'm like, non-swank, did I not literally SAY when he came round not to give him jellied eels, plus he did not sing a single word of Knocked 'em In the Old Kent Road, after we had learned the entire hymn? I mean, ungrateful, much, remember how happy Danny was when you taught him how to eat an artichoke, but Mummy always said that being prime minister totally gave Major ideas, all hostess trolley this & Lord's Taverners that, as in major Rotarian lolz?



lets just all glory in the light of this. I'm not funny. I do have the occasional moment of flair but 90% of the time I am doing base nob gags that a four year old would raise an eyebrow to.

But this person has absolutely no self awareness. I have had wittier repartee from my trainers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2013)

I think this marks a point where taffboy can finally say he has found someone less funny than himself


----------



## Nylock (Nov 19, 2013)

I'm no king of comedy myself, but even I can see that that is fucking dire....


----------



## brogdale (Nov 21, 2013)

From the article "Men's coats"...







So that's just over £2.5k for the look.

FFS


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 22, 2013)

^^ That's why I stopped buying newspapers.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 22, 2013)

I would totally wear that but not at that price


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2013)

Terrible mish mash of colours and function. Horrible.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 22, 2013)

well it would of course be better with brown trousers, green jumper and green checked shirt but beggars can't be choosers


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> well it would of course be better with brown trousers, green jumper and green checked shirt but beggars can't be choosers





sounds like a Doctor Who outfit


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> sounds like a Doctor Who outfit


----------



## treelover (Nov 23, 2013)

Nylock said:


> My eyes!
> 
> That is, like, totally cringeworthy




Catherine Bennet is usually a very good writer.


----------



## Nylock (Nov 23, 2013)

clearly having an 'off' period then....


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 23, 2013)

treelover said:


> Catherine Bennet is usually a very good writer.


Any examples?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 23, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I would totally wear that but not at that price



It's a ridiculous price, too, even for mohair, for what the coat is (basically a take on an Edwardian draped jacket as an overcoat), and the fact that it's off-the-peg.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 23, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> well it would of course be better with brown trousers, green jumper and green checked shirt but beggars can't be choosers



I'm not surprised that the trousers are brown, given the price of that ensemble!


----------



## seventh bullet (Nov 23, 2013)

That's a lot of money to look like a twat. 

I remember looking like a twat costing a lot less when I was a teen.


----------



## tbtommyb (Nov 24, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I would totally wear that but not at that price


A jumper that make you look pregnant and an ill-fitting shirt?

Also I hate to give this article the oxygen of clicks but: http://www.theguardian.com/society/shortcuts/2013/nov/24/vaping-smoking-e-cigarettes


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2013)

> Michael White's analysis is unique. His take on events is never predictable and he delights in debunking. Where less experienced lobby journalists will talk a story up beyond its merit White, the _Guardian_'s former political editor, will hose it down and place it in historical perspective. He is one of several contributors to the _Guardian_ site, whose input is led by the forensic, relentless and astute Andrew Sparrow who led the way with liveblogging from events such as the Chilcot inquiry on the Iraq war".


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2013)

You are all thick cunts because peaches geldof is says the private school and oxbridge daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams and the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams. Who, doesn't really do much to suggest that her education was a result of meritocracy.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 29, 2013)

Does that sorry cunt even read the articles or is he incapable of doing anything but latching onto the byline and then snuffling around Burke's landed gentry?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Does that sorry cunt even read the articles or is he incapable of doing anything but latching onto the byline and then snuffling around Burke's landed gentry?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2013)

> Jumpers for men: key fashion trends of the season - in pictures
> Previous winters have seen the cardigan getting all the fashion love in menswear, but 2013 shall be known as the year of the jumper. Anything goes; classic cashmere, chunky roll necks, even the novelty Christmas sweater is getting its moment to shine:
> 
> #1 Stripe wool blend jumper £460


See also:
Food povs.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Nov 29, 2013)

This article is fucking provocative;
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/28/japan-south-korea-chinese-air-zone-islands


----------



## youngian (Nov 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You are all thick cunts because peaches geldof is says the private school and oxbridge daughter of Sir Alastair Edgcumbe James Dudley-Williams and the granddaughter of aviation pioneer and Conservative politician Sir Rolf Dudley-Williams. Who, doesn't really do much to suggest that her education was a result of meritocracy.





> As for Peaches, to this comparatively ancient correspondent's eye she seems a high-profile representative of an occasionally alien-seeming tribe – a generation who in many cases simply have no understanding of privacy, or of what was once perceived as its value, and who see some sort of continuum between living their own lives online and catastrophically compromising the lives of those they fancy deserve it in the same forum, when ethically there is none.



Yeh bloody kids with their texting and twerking and no respect for privacy.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 29, 2013)

youngian said:


> Yeh bloody kids with their texting and twerking and no respect for privacy.



It's a reasonable point.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Nov 29, 2013)

I still read the Guardian online partly out of laziness but also because the Morning Star website is even more shit since their recent upgrade. Difficult to tweet articles without amending them. I try to buy the Morning Star at least once a week but i admit it is a token effort.
I would never buy the Guardian or the Observer unless i was in love with a reader and we were planning to spend Sunday morning in bed tossing supplements over each other.


----------



## rekil (Nov 29, 2013)

Why does Chile prosper while neighbouring Argentina flounders? by one Michael Boskin, who was labelled "world's wrongest man" by new york magazine.



> One hopes that Argentina will learn from its western neighbour – and that a Bachelet administration in Chile will look across the Andes, recognize where its proposals risk taking the country, and change course before it is too late.



David Schneider's twitter top tips.


----------



## youngian (Nov 30, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> It's a reasonable point.



It could well be if it had any credible research to back up the claims instead of 'Z list celeb gobs off on Twitter'. 
But it hasn't so its just a pundit down the pub bashing out 1500 words before lunch. I could point to a series of random events, like support for the Hacked Off campaign to argue a culture of privacy is growing rather than retreating.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 30, 2013)

The hacked off campaign is fundamentally an organised gang of slebs, is it not? Their civilian backing is limited.


----------



## Nylock (Nov 30, 2013)

Yeah, mostly limited to those civilians who got fucked over by the press... And?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 30, 2013)

Nylock said:


> And?



And it's not evidence of mainstream opinion. Ergo, there's no need for the writer to point to research in order to articulate an intuitively reasonable link between lives lived in public and the inability of Peaches' followers to understand quite why what she did was reprehensible.


----------



## Nylock (Nov 30, 2013)

You're right that hacked-off is mostly an organised gang of slebs hoping to claw back some semblance of privacy off the back of the outrage generated over the behaviour of the press. However, the impression i got during Leveson was that the press drew most ire from the public (the 'mainstream') for their reprehensible treatment of 'civilians' like the Dowler family rather than Hugh Grant squeaking about his right to go a-whoring without the accompanying lurid headlines in the press.

I'm not all that bothered about slebs getting a roasting from the press as, by and large, the deleterious effect on their day-to-day lives is generally short lived whereas the effects of press misrepresentation on members of the public tend to be more long-term and personally devastating to those affected by it. The incorporation of 'civilian' experiences into the general thrust of hacked-off's campaign may be seen to be a cynical ploy to garner more public sympathy by including these cases of 'civilians' being abused by the same machine that takes slebs to task over their mis-deeds but, tbh if it raises the profile of press abuse against non-slebs then, of itself, this isn't a bad thing surely?

Oh and just to be clear, I also think Peaches Geldof is a total fucking idiot and always have done.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 30, 2013)

All fair points, just didn't think the article was that bad. Commentators are there to comment, after all.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 30, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/30/ukraine-bloody-backlash-sanctions-eu over egging the pudding a bit here I think


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 30, 2013)

Nylock said:


> Oh and just to be clear, I also think Peaches Geldof is a total fucking idiot and always have done.



with her dads face


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 10, 2013)

Christmas cards - whose is best?

All three party leaders have unveiled theirs but whose do you prefer?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2013)

Look at Clegg, fighting the tears back.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 10, 2013)

Socialists test Christmas champagne





Chattering classes? North Londonites? Champagne socialists? We decided to see if Guardianistas really do have a nose for the finer things in life ...


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 10, 2013)

"katie hopkins new twitter row"


----------



## rekil (Dec 10, 2013)

He's been hammering the booze. Look at that complexion.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 10, 2013)

He's also tucked a whole chocolate orange into his cheek.


----------



## JimW (Dec 10, 2013)

What's Nigel Farage's? Him crashing a sleigh?


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 10, 2013)

"Yesterday, he was a man. Yesterday he had a name, a family. TODAY HE IS MACHETE".


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 10, 2013)

Seriously, wee Ed looks genuinely sinister (though not left, ho ho) in that pic. And this is an official thing his office sends out?


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 10, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He's also tucked a whole chocolate orange into his cheek.



Tooth abscess, innit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Socialists test Christmas champagne
> 
> 
> 
> ...




read 'bollinger bolshevik' the other day, which amused me far more than it warrants


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2013)

Idris2002 said:


> "Yesterday, he was a man. Yesterday he had a name, a family. TODAY HE IS MACHETE".




looks disturbingly like ed has a semi on


----------



## seventh bullet (Dec 10, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Socialists test Christmas champagne
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus fucking wept.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 10, 2013)

copliker said:


> View attachment 44744



“...And starring Bernard Hill as the Prime Minister...”


----------



## Nylock (Dec 11, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> Jesus fucking wept.


Couldn't agree more...


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 11, 2013)

copliker said:


> David Schneider's twitter top tips.



Only £119 to learn how to tweet effectively. 

http://www.theguardian.com/guardian...vid-schneider-david-levin-social-media-course


----------



## rekil (Dec 11, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Only £119 to learn how to tweet effectively.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/guardian...vid-schneider-david-levin-social-media-course


'This could be you'



			
				David Schneider said:
			
		

> Disappointing response from the barista bringing me my delayed coffee to my "better latte than never" gag #toughcrowd


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 11, 2013)

Coming soon. Making the most of your doodles. Only £150 with top conceptual artist Terry Cock.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> looks disturbingly like ed has a semi on



I bet they focus grouped family pictures with flaccid Ed, semi Ed and banana in pocket Ed and semi Ed won


----------



## J Ed (Dec 18, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/17/vaginal-knitting-artist-defence


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 18, 2013)

This made me laugh. Phil Hammond today 'In defence of drones'



> The most basic falsehood, invariably, is the use of the term "drone" – a name that conjures up images of computer-controlled machines, free from human oversight. It is a legitimate term in the right context but mostly it is used erroneously.



I see. It's the name that makes us uneasy. What should we really be calling it?



> A drone is a pilotless vehicle, but the Royal Air Force's Reaper – the system to which the word is commonly applied in the British press – is anything but.



Oh. The Reaper. That's much more reassuring. What about 'the Jolly Reaper'. Not grim in any way, shape or form. What a twat. 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/18/in-defence-of-drones-keep-civilians-troops-safe


----------



## rekil (Dec 18, 2013)

Zero hours contracts are great

http://www.theguardian.com/local-go...hours-contracts-councils-reputation-poisonous

How to wear 'party' jeans

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/video/2013/dec/18/how-to-wear-party-jeans-video


----------



## Awesome Wells (Dec 19, 2013)

Councils do proudly use them. That's the problem!


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 19, 2013)

Please go  Mr Rusbridger, you've been editor since '95 on £395,000 pa


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 19, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Please go  Mr Rusbridger, you've been editor since '95 on £395,000 pa



He will stay another twenty years; there is no-one to sack him.


----------



## captainmission (Dec 21, 2013)

A christmas ghost story from the guardian- Professional woman buys a 3 bed semi (with a study!) only to find it's haunted by the spirit of a working class person who destroys her decor and makes them unemployed! woooooo

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/dec/21/repossession-by-lionel-shriver


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 21, 2013)




----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 21, 2013)

captainmission said:


> A christmas ghost story from the guardian- Professional woman buys a 3 bed semi (with a study!) only to find it's haunted by the spirit of a working class person who destroys her decor and makes them unemployed! woooooo
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/dec/21/repossession-by-lionel-shriver



I read about the first 2 paragraphs of that in the Guardian supplement, and thought "that's shite, it can fuck the fuck off".
TBF most of the stories in the "Winter Fiction Special!" can fuck the fuck off!


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Dec 21, 2013)

Do People still waste their money on the guardian I stopped buying it on a regular basis two decades ago then stopped buying it completely once it became the mouthpiece of the grinning spinning blair and the neo-labour party then from there the guardian finally bombed when it became the loyal party organ of the lib-democrat branch of the conservatives......These are my reasons for believing the guardian has gone down the pan


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 21, 2013)

its always been a fabian rag. I used to buy it for the saturday arts&books section but I came to realise that was shit as well.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 23, 2013)

captainmission said:


> A christmas ghost story from the guardian- Professional woman buys a 3 bed semi (with a study!) only to find it's haunted by the spirit of a working class person who destroys her decor and makes them unemployed! woooooo
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/dec/21/repossession-by-lionel-shriver





> ...Handy for her gender and generation, Helen spent her first Saturday as a landholder covering the sitting room walls in a vibrant, nervy colour that she'd found in the Guardian Weekend's interior design pages: a dazzling aqua popular for plastic toys...


----------



## Awesome Wells (Dec 27, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/gallery/2013/dec/26/boxing-day-hunt-in-pictures

15 pages of cunts including those brainwashing their kids into this stupid anachronism.


----------



## treelover (Dec 31, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/31/whats-your-wish-for-2014



> More effectively than any other contemporary figure, the impoverished worker punctures what the Westminster set thinks it knows about the jobs market. From New Labour workfare to Iain Duncan Smith and George Osborne: for decades, the main parties have hammered the unemployed. But they won't face down firms who don't pay enough to live on.





> Let this be the year Duncan Smith's "scrounger" attacks rebound on him. The independent Institute for Fiscal Studies shows government plans for the years after 2015 would require yet deeper cuts, devastating the NHS. So far, many voters seem to believe the propaganda that deficit-cutting is worth the sacrifice, though economic growth has been sluggish and deficit-reduction delayed.



While criticisms are valid, its nice to see that in the New Year wishes from Guardian Writers, a fair few want to see the end of the benefit cuts, etc and to see disabled claimants treated fairly.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2013)

treelover said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/31/whats-your-wish-for-2014
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong thread. It's not that hard a concept. The title almost speaks for itself. Who come up with it?


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 31, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...eritysmall-businesses-lead-british-prosperity
Why are they giving this tool comment space ?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 31, 2013)

Gingerman said:


> Why are they giving this tool comment space ?



Why this question again? They want to give every kind of tool they can find comment space, so that they can compete with HuffPo.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 4, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/04/ancient-woodland-cut-down-biodiversity-offsetting


> Major projects such as the London-Birmingham high-speed rail line from London to are a particular threat to ancient woodlands


To where, I wonder? Also:


> He said the model for his scheme was the construction of the M6 toll road near Manchester.


At least Birmingham was spared that.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 5, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/04/hidden-cornwall-beaches-poverty-domestic-violence

Bollocks from one of the cunts from the centre for Social Justice. Apparently Cornwall's problems are because people give too much money to animals and medical research. Philanthropy will save the day. Fuck off.


----------



## Nylock (Jan 8, 2014)

mauvais said:


> ...
> Also:
> At least Birmingham was spared that.


...I thought the M6 Toll was near Birmingham... I'm sure a brummie mate of mine referred to the nearby toll-less stretch of M6 as the M6 _prole_ road...


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 9, 2014)

Corrupt scumbags who employ mass murdering criminals to do their dirty work are "sensible" apparently.

Natural resources and sensible leaders bring high hopes for Indonesia


----------



## rekil (Jan 9, 2014)

I suspect Mr.Hutton is employed to churn out PR on behalf of them sensible leaders.



> Contributor at The Economist Intelligence Unit (The EIU)
> Reporter for BRW Magazine and The Australian Financial Review at Fairfax Media, Specialised in defence, infrastructure and utilities.
> Moved to Jakarta in August 2012 where I dish out stories on this sprawling country that's also and the fastest growing economy in the region. Make the odd quid ghost writing op-ed pieces, newsletters and speeches.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 14, 2014)

What's this all about? Click on the links about 4 paras down.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 14, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What's this all about? Click on the links about 4 paras down.





> Emma Gilbey Keller hosts the Guardian US's series on lifestyle and wellbeing,  The Living Hour. She also runs the site's pop-up book clubs and Summer and Winter Reads. She is the author of The Comeback: Seven Stories of Women Who Went From Career to Family and Back Again (2008) and The Lady: The Life and Times of Winnie Mandela (1994). She grew up in England and lives in New York City with her husband Bill Keller, columnist and former editor of the New York Times, and their two daughters. Follow her on Twitter at  @emmagkeller



She definitely fits our thread criteria


----------



## Belushi (Jan 16, 2014)

More on the Keller article that has been pulled here https://medium.com/technology-and-society/4d811b45840d


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 17, 2014)

4:42
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...ng-london-five-most-difficult-junctions-video


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Feb 2, 2014)

Not much digging the new site design.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Feb 5, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/04/dating-profile-picture-that-counts

fuck off.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 5, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/04/dating-profile-picture-that-counts
> 
> fuck off.



Jesus but that was vapid shit that she wrote!


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2014)

swear they stage those pictures for the byline 'no no, not quite smug enough, pull a real soulmates face'

this made me laugh though



> However, we're all shallow – it's just that some of us are quite upfront about it and some attempt to give our shortcomings an intellectual spin.



aye right, cos theres always a way to spin lifetime petty criminality, addiction and and rage intellectually. It's something I discuss regularly at the school gates.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 5, 2014)

It links to a Mail article. She couldn't even be arsed to link to the Wired article that the Mail article was nicking off.


----------



## treelover (Feb 7, 2014)

Georgina Henry, journalist and founder of Guardian CIF has died aged 53

RIP


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 10, 2014)

From their stuart hall obit:



> The foundations of cultural studies lay in an insistence on taking popular, low-status cultural forms seriously and tracing the interweaving threads of culture, power and politics. Its interdisciplinary perspectives drew on literary theory, linguistics and cultural anthropology in order to analyse subjects as diverse as youth sub-cultures, popular media and gendered and ethnic identities – thus creating something of a model, for example, for the Guardian's own G2 section.


----------



## Santino (Feb 10, 2014)

Surprised that they didn't claim to have invented cultural studies themselves, actually.


----------



## The Pale King (Feb 10, 2014)

After the creation of the Guardian's G2 section, Stuart Hall's work was done really.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> From their stuart hall obit:



Fucking hell. Did David Brent write this?


----------



## J Ed (Feb 10, 2014)

Wow http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-hero-terrorism-syria-british-fighters-damned


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 11, 2014)

http://english2english.tumblr.com/


----------



## J Ed (Feb 16, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/16/kirstie-allsopp-sarah-beeny-in-own-homes

and

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/14/i-dont-wear-shoes-experience


----------



## brogdale (Feb 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/16/kirstie-allsopp-sarah-beeny-in-own-homes
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/14/i-dont-wear-shoes-experience





> 'Not much studying goes on here' … Kirstie Allsopp in her study



No shit


----------



## rekil (Feb 16, 2014)

> 'It was a drunken night with my best mate Dave, who's a cabinet maker' … Martin Roberts on his rocket units.


Oh no it wasn't. It was the sheer osmotic power of proletarian democracy motifs and aesthetics.


----------



## xenon (Feb 17, 2014)

Why? How are these people allowed. What Sunday format.


----------



## xenon (Feb 17, 2014)

I am not wearing shoes. I live in a cottage. I buy cushions. I am real. Behold my Cushions.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 17, 2014)

Pimping for Clegg again.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/17/nick-clegg-hint-coalition-labour


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Feb 17, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> From their stuart hall obit:



Sad to hear Stuart Hall died 

Massive, massive  for putting that in his obituary.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2014)

Oh ffs....

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2014/feb/19/sniper-camouflage-simon-menner



> *Spot the sniper – in pictures*
> German artist Simon Menner has photographed a camouflaged sniper in each of these images. Can you spot them?



Really.



Spoiler


----------



## Belushi (Feb 19, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/feb/19/scottish-independence-76-things-apologise

Is this meant to be funny?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 23, 2014)

Travel tips: Nantes, the Somerset Levels (after the floods) 



> Much of the media coverage has focused on the plight of farmers but the area also depends heavily on tourism. I spent a week in the Somerset Levels last summer and fell completely under its spell. The distinctive flatlands which make the area so vulnerable to flooding are precisely what make magical. *Swallows swoop and dive over misty fenlands criss-crossed by rhynes (irrigation channels) and the traces of ancient walkways.* Over it all stands the extraordinary outcrop of Glastonbury Tor and St Michael's Tower. No wonder the place is synonymous with legends and fairytales.



_They're starlings love._


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2014)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/16/kirstie-allsopp-sarah-beeny-in-own-homes


I wish I hadn't clicked on that link.


----------



## Buckaroo (Feb 23, 2014)

editor said:


> I wish I hadn't clicked on that link.



It's goat's cheese all the way. 

"This simple wooden hut, in a paddock at the foot of the Downs, is well named. Entirely off-grid with rolling farmland views – to the sea on a clear day – it offers a refuge from 21st-century life. Your host, TV personality and vicar the Rev Peter Owen-Jones, is on hand with everything from fresh eggs to spiritual guidance."


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 25, 2014)

*The Guardian* ‏@*guardian* 
Why Angela Rippon is one of Britain's greatest-ever style icons http://gu.com/p/3n3yx/tw @*LifeandStyle*

3:45 PM - 25 Feb 2014


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 27, 2014)

> Ronan Farrow's new MSNBC show has been trumpeted as cable news' latest attempt to engage Millennials.







> I fall squarely into that demographic. I'm in my early 20s. I've got a college degree (plus the debt that comes with it). I try to eat salads, but have been known to splurge $7 on an artisanal donut. My job is all about social media.







> But Farrow's show, with its Playskool blue and yellow color scheme, endless visual aides, and stale news stories that I've heard a thousand times over, left me as cold as his controversial blue eyes.







> Millennials like me are looking for 26-year-old Farrow to disprove stereotypes about our generation, but so far the show is making him look like just another pretentious young adult trying to play grown-up.








http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/27/msnbc-twitter



> Kayla Epstein is a multimedia journalist based in New York. She currently works in support of the Guardian US Open team.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2014)

I noticed a lot of people laughing at his show for having "rhodes scholar" and "yale law school" written onto his set - amongst his other heroic activities that is.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 1, 2014)

I don't see any mention of the recent death from malnutrition in the Guardian.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don't see any mention of the recent death from malnutrition in the Guardian.


Apart from that article that was on the main website front page for a good chunk of yesterday.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 7, 2014)

Yet another massive puff piece for the LibDems from Wintour


> Nick Clegg as he faces the European elections in May, has set his party on the same course. Faced with ever growing hostility to the EU, and to immigration, Clegg has decided to present the Liberal Democrats unambiguously as the party of "in" and of openness. He wants to be seen in these elections as the Stop Farage candidate and to make the debate about the very character of Britain. The planned TV debate with the Ukip leader will give him a chance not just to stand up to Farage,* but to stand up for a Britain that does not want to hide.*


Brilliant last line


----------



## Santino (Mar 7, 2014)

Is this the *Why the Lib Dems are shit* thread?


----------



## teqniq (Mar 7, 2014)

No, but it is easy to see why it might be

Nick Clegg hints at Crimea deal if Vladimir Putin 'drops KGB mentality'


----------



## Belushi (Mar 7, 2014)

Ian Jack celebrates the upside of gentrification http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/07/new-local-butcher-fishmonger-pleasing


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 7, 2014)

Further to the not wearing shoes article with which another poster has already enriched our lives by bringing it to our attention...

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/14/i-dont-wear-shoes-experience

 

Why the _fuck_ does the picture of her not show her fucking feet?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 7, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Further to the not wearing shoes article with which another poster has already enriched our lives by bringing it to our attention...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/feb/14/i-dont-wear-shoes-experience
> 
> ...



to be fair it's probably a deliberate thing to show you can't tell she's the sort of person who wouldn't wear shoes


----------



## brogdale (Mar 7, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> to be fair it's probably a deliberate thing to show you can't tell she's the sort of person who wouldn't wear shoes



In the actual paper paper it did; both of them....bare.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 7, 2014)

That'll be it. Good thinking

E2a that was to SL btw


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 8, 2014)

Jesus F. Christ

*



			Sarah Vine: Why I want my daughter to go to a state school

Click to expand...

*


Spoiler



*




*


----------



## Blagsta (Mar 10, 2014)

wtf is up with their modding on their comments?


----------



## scifisam (Mar 11, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Jesus F. Christ
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's actually a pretty good article. I is confused.


----------



## auspiciousbunny (Mar 15, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> This made me laugh. Phil Hammond today 'In defence of drones'
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm glad to find this thread because as an American I read the Guardian in an attempt to try to find out what is going on in the U.S. since it's basically impossible to read US papers, or for that matter, hear yourself think around here.  Reading the paper the past few years, it has developed a sort of smarmy aroma.  Like underarm deodorant worn by one of our drone-embracing Democrats. 

The idea of renaming the drone - can't believe they didn't do that one already.  Obama's team has really been good at re-branding things.  I'm sure his PR people could find a nice benign, trustworthy, Bruce Springsteen kind of name for it.  Make it seem more like the local volunteer fire department.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 15, 2014)

What happened with that last post? Didn't read it, but guess it was potentially libelous or something?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 15, 2014)

> • An online blog about the Oscars (10 things we learned, 3 March, theguardian.com) said that Bradley Manning took a selfie that included the host Ellen DeGeneres, among others. As the picture shows, it was taken by the actor Bradley Cooper.



http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2014/mar/03/corrections-and-clarifications


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 16, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-as-search-for-airliner-goes-on-live-updates

*Three crucial pieces of evidence*
*
1. The transponder*
The transponder – a signal system that identifies the plane to radar – was shut off about an hour into the flight.
That’s not a straightforward thing to do. *Someone in the cockpit would have to turn a knob with multiple selections to the off position while pressing down at the same time,* said John Goglia, a former member of the US National Transportation Safety Board.
However, it could also be learned by someone who researched the plane on the internet, Goglia said.
*2. Acars*
The Boeing 777’s Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (Acars) – used to send short messages via a satellite or VHF radio – was shut off.
In most planes, the information part of the system *can be shut down by hitting cockpit switches in sequence in order to get to a computer screen where an option must be selected using a keypad,* said Goglia, an expert on aircraft maintenance.
Again, that could be done by the pilot or someone who had researched the system.


----------



## DairyQueen (Mar 16, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2014/mar/03/corrections-and-clarifications


 


> We perhaps can't overestimate – and certainly shouldn't underestimate – how easy it is to write a phrase such as "The impact of porn on general culture can't be underestimated, she thinks" (Truly, deeply, 22 February, page 26) when what we mean is the opposite.


 
Well... riiiiiiight... thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## Belushi (Mar 18, 2014)

They've got some 'Generation Y takeover' thing going on atm.  Now I have a lot of sympathy with young people in the current climate but being the Guardian from what I've seen it's just an entitled middle class kid whinefest.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 18, 2014)

Belushi said:


> They've got some 'Generation Y takeover' thing going on atm.  Now I have a lot of sympathy with young people in the current climate but being the Guardian from what I've seen it's just an entitled middle class kid whinefest.




is it 'I done a degree but so has everyone else so I have to do a cleaning job' sort of thing?


----------



## Belushi (Mar 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> is it 'I done a degree but so has everyone else so I have to do a cleaning job' sort of thing?



In one comrade.


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 20, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-philosopher-black-books-not-surprising-nazi
A possible explanation of the guardians indulgence toward Ukraine's more_ flamboyant_ protesters, naziism all down to context.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2014)

That bloke Domenico Loundso did a very good counter history of liberalism. Note also the translater in that piece linked to.


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 20, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That bloke Domenico Loundso did a very good counter history of liberalism. Note also the translater in that piece linked to.


He's on my Facebook, that's how I saw the piece.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 20, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-philosopher-black-books-not-surprising-nazi
> A possible explanation of the guardians indulgence toward Ukraine's more_ flamboyant_ protesters, naziism all down to context.



I wonder if all of this fawning over or excusing foreign neo-Nazis isn't partly rooted in liberal anti-fascism which as we know has become for a nasty but vocal minority a vehicle for hatred of the British working-class. Svoboda and Right Sector members are obviously not British and many of them are not working-class, they don't seem much like the EDL or the BNP at all *gush gush gush*


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I wonder if all of this fawning over or excusing foreign neo-Nazis isn't partly rooted in liberal anti-fascism which as we know has become for a nasty but vocal minority a vehicle for hatred of the British working-class. Svoboda and Right Sector members are obviously not British and many of them are not working-class, they don't seem much like the EDL or the BNP at all *gush gush gush*


 
At least they're stopping "cultural appropriation".


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I wonder if all of this fawning over or excusing foreign neo-Nazis isn't partly rooted in liberal anti-fascism which as we know has become for a nasty but vocal minority a vehicle for hatred of the British working-class. Svoboda and Right Sector members are obviously not British and many of them are not working-class, they don't seem much like the EDL or the BNP at all *gush gush gush*


In this case, it couldn't be further from the truth - the author actually argues that the roots of fascism lie within liberalism. That fascism, historically is part of mainstream conceptions - and that's why he's not shocked by the new revelations (of which there appear to be very few) about heidegger. Because it's just part of the intertwining of mainstream liberal intellectual history and fascism's history.


----------



## belboid (Mar 20, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-philosopher-black-books-not-surprising-nazi
> A possible explanation of the guardians indulgence toward Ukraine's more_ flamboyant_ protesters, naziism all down to context.


  christ man, learn to read, then you might not talk such drivel


----------



## rekil (Mar 21, 2014)

Something for everyone there.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 21, 2014)

braggs had a stylist in, you can barely see his massive adams apple


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Mar 21, 2014)

Teaching dogs to 'read' using an ipad


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 21, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Teaching dogs to 'read' using an ipad


----------



## oryx (Mar 21, 2014)

Woman who found moving to Yorkshire 'a bigger culture shock' than living in Malaysia or Israel.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...hire-millworkers-cottage-renovation-interiors

Nice gaff but ffs


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 22, 2014)

"Rescued from a Leeds school" ..but when we do it it's "looting"


----------



## Belushi (Mar 22, 2014)

That's beyond parody


----------



## rekil (Mar 22, 2014)

via someone on twitter

Forage for Braggs.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2014)

oryx said:


> Woman who found moving to Yorkshire 'a bigger culture shock' than living in Malaysia or Israel.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...hire-millworkers-cottage-renovation-interiors


That is a turkeyshoot of a first paragraph!



> ...illustrator...Hebden Bridge...Shoreditch...do up a run-down property...sell it...profit...vibrant town...Noah...


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Mar 22, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-as-search-for-airliner-goes-on-live-updates
> 
> *Three crucial pieces of evidence*
> *1. The transponder*
> ...


Live blogs are completely fucking worthless.

Reports coming in that someone has broken into a house. They could have done this with a stolen key, but this is not straight forward, a master locksmith explained. "You would need to push the key into the lock and turn it more or less simultaneously to gain access."

The alarm system was also turned off. In theory, this could have been done by entering a sequence of numbers onto the control pad (an electronic device) and pressing a button marked 'Enter', which 'enters' the numbers into the system.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 22, 2014)

Lol that article is like guardian bingo


----------



## oryx (Mar 22, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> "Rescued from a Leeds school" ..but when we do it it's "looting"



Kid's bedhead is on the wrong side of the line between 'shabby chic' and 'downright ropey'!


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 23, 2014)

oryx said:


> Woman who found moving to Yorkshire 'a bigger culture shock' than living in Malaysia or Israel.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...hire-millworkers-cottage-renovation-interiors
> 
> Nice gaff but ffs


Fucking Hebden Bridge


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 23, 2014)

Why is everyone so obsessed with hebden bridge?


----------



## andysays (Mar 23, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Why is everyone so obsessed with hebden bridge?



"Islington" of the north, innit...


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2014)

the way the graun goes on you'd think it was shangri la


----------



## _angel_ (Mar 23, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Why is everyone so obsessed with hebden bridge?


The BBC moved up north and lots of them went to live there.


----------



## JTG (Mar 23, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Why is everyone so obsessed with hebden bridge?


That way they don't have to talk about the rest of the north of England


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 24, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/23/in-praise-of-sir-peter-tapsell


----------



## J Ed (Mar 27, 2014)

How to take a relatively cheap every day staple and turn it into a relatively expensive labour intensive activity for fun

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...the-perfect-digestive-biscuit-felicity-cloake


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2014)

oh, I quite like those cookery articles. Might give it a try with the kids.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 27, 2014)

I like baking a lot and sometimes use their articles but making chocolate digestives from scratch just seems a bit silly


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2014)

does it hell. why would it?


----------



## Belushi (Mar 27, 2014)

Confused article which appears to equate being unmarried with being single http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/mar/27/singles-england-wales-older-majority

_"The average single person in England and Wales is generally older now than they were in 2001."
_
At the risk of being pedantic I suspect we are all older now than we were in 2001.


----------



## JTG (Mar 27, 2014)

Belushi said:


> At the risk of being pedantic I suspect we are all older now than we were in 2001.


All except my cousin Adam. He's getting younger


----------



## JTG (Apr 2, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/02/tories-own-future-left-trapped-in-past

Only read the first paragraph tbh but Harris is saying that the Tories are a good bet to win the election. I mean, seriously?!


----------



## 8ball (Apr 2, 2014)

JTG said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/02/tories-own-future-left-trapped-in-past
> 
> Only read the first paragraph tbh but Harris is saying that the Tories are a good bet to win the election. I mean, seriously?!


 
I'd guess since his job is going round talking to people about politics he maybe shouldn't be discounted out of hand.


----------



## JTG (Apr 2, 2014)

8ball said:


> I'd guess since his job is going round talking to people about politics he maybe shouldn't be discounted out of hand.


I'd say that the recent polls he cites don't show any reduction in Labour's popularity and that the inbuilt advantage to Labour in the system and the fact the Tories won't increase their 2010 vote means he's talking cobblers on the available evidence


----------



## 8ball (Apr 2, 2014)

JTG said:


> I'd say that the recent polls he cites don't show any reduction in Labour's popularity and that the inbuilt advantage to Labour in the system and the fact the Tories won't increase their 2010 vote means he's talking cobblers on the available evidence


 
I can't see them increasing their 2010 vote either, and I think he's being a bit hyperbolic, but I see where he's coming from with some of it (though I think he's majorly missed the point with his last paragraph).


----------



## Awesome Wells (Apr 3, 2014)

l fucking hope the Tories don't win!

Can't stress that enough.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2014)

8ball said:


> I can't see them increasing their 2010 vote either, and I think he's being a bit hyperbolic, but I see where he's coming from with some of it (though I think he's majorly missed the point with his last paragraph).



Then they don't win full stop. That piece reads like he read some stuart hall obit discovered New Times and decided a now largely discredited piece of propaganda from the 80s is an ideal weapon with which to attack people for being stuck in the 80s. It's junk. It stinks of lib-dem too.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2014)

Seriously - the only people saying the tories will win and are now in the driving seat are this clown Harris and Dan Hodges.


----------



## articul8 (Apr 3, 2014)

There is anxiety that Labour won't be able to form a majority - that seems entirely possible


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2014)

articul8 said:


> There is anxiety that Labour won't be able to form a majority - that seems entirely possible


There's no anxiety in that Harris piece - it's an open assertion - in the face of 3 years labour lead in the polls and a 6 point lead on that very day -  that the tories will win a majority. Every time the polls even slightly narrow chokers like him are wheeled out in the guardian to try and browbeat the leadership into being nice to the lib-dems. Note the only thing he has a good word for in that piece is the lib-dem cheerleaders of Compass. If there's any anxiety it's from that set and its about not being able to capitalise on the last weeks temp narrowing to get their way.


----------



## belboid (Apr 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Seriously - the only people saying the tories will win and are now in the driving seat are this clown Harris and Dan Hodges.


and anyone who can read a paper.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 4, 2014)

This spectacularly misses the point. Nice bit of class snobbery thrown in. 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/apr/04/everyday-sexism-turn-tables-women-men-video


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2014)

We're rotters who don't pay enough for our wine apparently http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/apr/06/brits-love-wine-headache-wine-trade


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 6, 2014)




----------



## MAD-T-REX (Apr 6, 2014)

> And as the supermarket price wars continue apace, there is a real danger that Britain's wine industry could be on the verge of a major dumbing down.
> 
> The research reveals that a third of us can't name a single grape type and only 4% can name more than 10.


Who gives a shit


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2014)

> _There are big regional differences too. Londoners, predictably, are the biggest spenders, but the disparities are wider than you might expect. Only 12% of Londoners shop in the basement category, buying wines at less than a fiver, for example, compared with 41% in the West Midlands. In the north-east, only 2% are happy to spend more than £10_.



Geordies need to get their act together.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

Isn't it weird that more luxury items are bought in the richest areas?


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Geordies need to get their act together.



Lol you would never get any other paper posting this drivel


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2014)

Some _Guardian_ wine drinkers, yesterday:


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2014)

It's precisely this lack of aspiration that keeps people poor. How can we expect working class children to work hard at school, go to Oxbridge and become Guardian journalists when they grow up watching their parents drinking Blossom Hill?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

They cunts also have 8 candles and the lights on.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Some _Guardian_ wine drinkers, yesterday:



Wine and rollies, so bohemian.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Wine and rollies, so bohemian.


Since his WIFE TOOK EVERYTHING poor old Lez can only afford Channel booze cruise gutrot red and untaxed baccy 

(Does this mean he's not _Real Guardianz_ any more?)


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2014)

FFS Cinzano you've just triggered my memory of that whining article he wrote about his living in poverty


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> FFS Cinzano you've just triggered my memory of that whining article he wrote about his living in poverty



Should have put a trigger warning


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 6, 2014)

Reminds me of those shitty articles about how food was too cheap, and the cost of meat needed to reflect its real quality.
People on benefit starving to death must be music to their ears


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> FFS Cinzano you've just triggered my memory of that whining article he wrote about his living in poverty


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Should have put a trigger warning


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> Reminds me of those shitty articles about how food was too cheap, and the cost of meat needed to reflect its real quality.
> People on benefit starving to death must be music to their ears



We've had that shit on here, twats insisting that people on benefits can afford a £3 organic 'artisan' loaf if they just cut out unecessary spending elsewhere.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> We've had this shit on here, twats insisting that people on benefits can afford a £3 organic 'artisan' loaf if they just cut out uneccesaary spending elsewhere.



Who needs to put money in the gas meter when you can warm yourself with the glow of smugness you'll get from buying and consuming a £3 (small) organic "artisan" loaf?


----------



## andysays (Apr 6, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> They cunts also have 8 candles and the lights on.



But only one wine glass (admittedly it looks like a fuck-off big one)

#austeritybritain#


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> We've had that shit on here, twats insisting that people on benefits can afford a £3 organic 'artisan' loaf if they just cut out unecessary spending elsewhere.





also 'the poor should go down the market at the end of the day and beg for the spoiled fresh fruit and veg'


----------



## rekil (Apr 6, 2014)

> The research reveals that a third of us can't name a single grape type and only 4% can name more than 10.



French green ones
French red ones
Chilean green ones
Chilean red ones
Australian green ones
Australian red ones
South African green ones
South African red ones
Italian green ones
Italian red ones
Austrian green ones
Austrian red ones

hth


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Apr 6, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Some _Guardian_ wine drinkers, yesterday:



The childish side of me just wants to make up a caption involving smugness, self-congratulation and farts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 6, 2014)

the article that accompanied that photo was enough


----------



## treelover (Apr 6, 2014)

Despite doing the OP, I still like much of the Guardian, but Nicholas Watt, a senior Guardian political journalist, on the Sunday Politics described the Employment Minister Esther McVey(who is useless) as  'outstanding'

very angry now...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

Meaning that your post was trivial (in which case why the plural?) or that other posts are trivial? And why no context for the love of fucking god?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 6, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> Reminds me of those shitty articles about how food was too cheap, and the cost of meat needed to reflect its real quality.
> People on benefit starving to death must be music to their ears



Right on cue...

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/06/buy-one-get-one-free-food-waste-supermarkets


----------



## treelover (Apr 6, 2014)

it was in the context of there being some 'outstanding' women in the cabinet and rising stars, its his job to discuss these issues, but McVey is not 'outstanding' and is perpetrating very brutal policies that the Guardian should condemn.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 6, 2014)

a group of Lord and Ladies discussing what should be done with food wastage/excess. satire

they'll take my tramps buffet from my cold dead malnourished hands


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

treelover said:


> it was in the context of there being some 'outstanding' women in the cabinet and rising stars, its his job to discuss these issues, but McVey is not 'outstanding' and is perpetrating very brutal policies that the Guardian should condemn.


And this was a substantive post as opposed to other trivial posts? Saying the govt is bad is pretty trivial. Expecting the guardian to condemn what they support is madness.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Expecting the guardian to condemn what they support is madness.


It is more than that, it is One Step Beyond


----------



## treelover (Apr 6, 2014)

Give it a rest, board policeman
@BA


----------



## chilango (Apr 6, 2014)

Damarr said:


> Who gives a shit




 

I give a shit.

I'm sick of of heavy, headache inducing wine being served luke-warm to me by ignorant Brits.

I'm sick of being unable to get a decent _vino della casa / vin de table._

Enough.

Italian workers think nothing of downing _prosecco_ during mid-morning coffee break. French proletarians quaff easy drinking wine by the caraffe to rehydrate after a particularly vigorous _greve_.

Its time PD set up mandatory residential wine tasting workshops.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 6, 2014)

chilango said:


> Its time PD set up mandatory residential wine tasting workshops.



Budem!


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Apr 6, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> This spectacularly misses the point. Nice bit of class snobbery thrown in.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/apr/04/everyday-sexism-turn-tables-women-men-video


This isn't getting enough hate. Could she be any more self-satisfied about 'turning the tables' on people minding their own business?


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 6, 2014)

The men in the video are just random blokes though, they probably haven't been involved in anything sexist for all she knows.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

That's the point.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 6, 2014)

Well no, there's no hint of malice behind the words, no fear of violence in the tone. It turns serious street harassment into some comedic hidden camera stunt. Incredibly amateur and unhelpful. 

Surely, tackling purveyors of street harassment with this sort of stuff would be more effective. It hasn't really turned the tables. Unless you assume every man featured in the video is sexist. I'd say it's a stretch.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 6, 2014)

It's probably also clickbait for the sort of misogynists who will say 'yeah, look we suffer sexism too!' Shamelessly putting a female journalist at risk of further abuse down the line.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> Well no, there's no hint of malice behind the words, no fear of violence in the tone. It turns serious street harassment into some comedic hidden camera stunt. Incredibly amateur and unhelpful.
> 
> Surely, tackling purveyors of street harassment with this sort of stuff would be more effective. It hasn't really turned the tables. Unless you assume every man featured in the video is sexist. I'd say it's a stretch.


It's not supposed to be tackling purveyors of street harassment. That, literally, is the point.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 6, 2014)

It's bollocks, looks terribly edited and stage managed. Sure, tackle everyday sexism, but it doesn't work.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> It's bollocks, looks terribly edited and stage managed. Sure, tackle everyday sexism, but it doesn't work.


It doesn't. But to say that you need to get who/what they're targeting right.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 6, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> It's bollocks, looks terribly edited and stage managed. Sure, tackle everyday sexism, but it doesn't work.



it doesnt work because shes not even trying to address the issue, shes just randomly harassing and insulting working class strangers on the street for the crime of being a particular gender..and apparently social class. Its got absolutely nothing to do with tackling sexism . In fact shes undermining feminism by making feminists look like complete arrogant man hating idiots who get a free pass to come out with whatever oul shite they feel like. Adding a degree of realism to a stereotype.

A much more effective method would have been to do what that feminist activist in Belgium did a few years back . Secretly videoing the harassment she and other women had to put up with on a daily basis , which actually shocked me it was so bad in her area.Thats actually tackling the issue, tackling the perpetrators of harassment .

Either she was too lazy and never tried, or she did try, wasnt harassed and then plumped for plan B


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 6, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Some _Guardian_ wine drinkers, yesterday:



Why do both of them, simultaneously, have to be cocking their fag hand wrists at that sort of smug annoying angle. Its a happy contended smoking angle, not my usual anxious and stressed one. Their glass is half full.

And fuck off with the rollies. Theyre not in jail, not on benefits, not on min wage. Even with crap wages I can, just about, afford a packet of proper fags. Perhaps they do it in order to resist the temptation of attaching an ostentatious cigarette holder and speaking like Noel Coward. Which you can tell they really want to do by just looking at them .


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> Why do both of them, simultaneously, have to be cocking their fag hand wrists at that sort of smug annoying angle. Its a happy contended smoking angle, not my usual anxious and stressed one. Their glass is half full.
> 
> And fuck off with the rollies. Theyre not in jail, not on benefits, not on min wage. Even with crap wages I can, just about, afford a packet of proper fags. Perhaps they do it in order to resist the temptation of attaching an ostentatious cigarette holder and speaking like Noel Coward. Which you can tell they really want to do by just looking at them .


We did this years ago dick.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 6, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Right on cue...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/apr/06/buy-one-get-one-free-food-waste-supermarkets



by a group of people in the 21st century who refer to themselves as _Lords_ ...no less. As in Lord of the Rings, or Timelords .


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2014)

copliker said:


> French green ones
> French red ones
> Chilean green ones
> Chilean red ones
> ...



What are New Zealand grapes, already?  Chopped liver?


----------



## rekil (Apr 7, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> What are New Zealand grapes, already?  Chopped liver?


NZ is dead to me.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2014)

copliker said:


> NZ is dead to me.



*Rascist!!!*


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2014)

I never understood how Oxford Landing mass market reds could command nearly a tenner a bottle. It's really no better than some italian or french table wine and yet they have consistently managed to command wealthy-man prices for what is distinctly average red wine. Its a swindle.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 7, 2014)

Another article to try and justify their clickbait sexism video. Not entirely convinced. http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-sexual-aggression-everyday-sexism?CMP=twt_gu


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Apr 7, 2014)

From that article:


> The things some men say to women are shocking. It is a sad truth that only by turning the tables do we hear how unbelievable they really are.


You don't need a gimmick to make horrible behaviour appear shitty - it speaks for itself. The Belgian video referred to by Casually Red would shock any man who thinks that street harassment is just a bit of flirting, which is what made it highly effective. Meanwhile, this two-minute video apparently needs several hundred words to justify its existence.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 8, 2014)

Stop being beastly about Tony you Lefties! http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/08/tony-blair-labour-pride-war-criminal-iraq


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 8, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Stop being beastly about Tony you Lefties! http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/08/tony-blair-labour-pride-war-criminal-iraq



Was just about to post this.

'He wasn't all bad he was a little misunderstood social democratic fairy! Stop being so mean to him you big meanies!'


----------



## Nylock (Apr 9, 2014)

jesus


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 9, 2014)

In response to the 'leave lil T-balls alone' article in the guardian. Is it not true that Saddam was in the process of obtaining nuclear weapons from the N Koreans, which along with the ethnic cleansing stuff and the general despotism, was reason enough to have him ousted.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> In response to the 'leave lil T-balls alone' article in the guardian. Is it not true that Saddam was in the process of obtaining nuclear weapons from the N Koreans, which along with the ethnic cleansing stuff and the general despotism, was reason enough to have him ousted.


No, he wasn't and so no, it wasn't.


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 9, 2014)

was he not, no and was it not, no?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 9, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> was he not, no and was it not, no?



Stick to the day job, Jay Park...


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 9, 2014)

Just throwing that one out there. Been forced to revise my opinion of late regarding the war in Iraq. Is it not even conceivable that his intention was to secure himself some big smoke in order to eradicate his enemies, whom he was halted from annihilating the first time around, way back when (cliche returned) in 91.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 9, 2014)

Obvious troll


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 9, 2014)

which means you don't have to engage with me on a serious level............. Does it. Bit new to this forum stuff, for a troll anyway.


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 9, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> No, he wasn't and so no, it wasn't.



So ethnic cleansing and general despotism are not good enough reasons not to remove a dictator.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 9, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> So ethnic cleansing and general despotism are not good enough reasons not to remove a dictator.


They're excellent reasons to remove a dictator, terrible reasons to invade and occupy a country.


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 9, 2014)

we ask the Kurdish how they feel about the autonomy and freedom from oppression that the occupation has granted them, they would say what?


----------



## belboid (Apr 9, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> we ask the Kurdish how they feel about the autonomy and freedom from oppression that the occupation has granted them, they would say what?


they've found it's got even worse, actually. In the Turkish part of Kurdistan.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 9, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> In response to the 'leave lil T-balls alone' article in the guardian. Is it not true that Saddam was in the process of obtaining nuclear weapons from the N Koreans, which along with the ethnic cleansing stuff and the general despotism, was reason enough to have him ousted.



Both the Saddam + PRNK nukes, and the Osama bin Laden + Yellowcake stories were complete flights of fancy invented by western intelligence agencies in order to provide leverage for military action.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 9, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> So ethnic cleansing and general despotism are not good enough reasons not to remove a dictator.



They're good reasons for a population to rise up against a dictator.  Unfortunately, the last time Iraqis tried that under Saddam, Bush Snr allowed Saddam to pretty much massacre the insurgents, because it made, in terms of _realpolitik_, political sense to do so.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 9, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> They're excellent reasons to remove a dictator, terrible reasons to invade and occupy a country.



Absolutely, but it's kind of a default position for the US, the UK and even NATO, because it's so much easier and more profitable than the alternatives.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 9, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> we ask the Kurdish how they feel about the autonomy and freedom from oppression that the occupation has granted them, they would say what?



Which Kurdish people are we asking, the ones who were the lucky recipients of Western support as a convenient and conditional ally in Iraq, or the much larger group of Kurds in Turkey whose government we arm?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Apr 9, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> Which Kurdish people are we asking, the ones who were the lucky recipients of Western support as a convenient and conditional ally in Iraq, or the much larger group of Kurds in Turkey whose government we arm?



Or those Kurds in Syria fighting for their lives against western backed Islamist rebels come to mention it....


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 9, 2014)

Delroy Booth said:


> western backed Islamist rebels come to mention it....


 not again


----------



## Delroy Booth (Apr 9, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> not again



Oh come on don't be so naive, we have openly backed some of the most unscrupulous characters in the whole damn middle-east in the course of these wars and it's only now that we've started to change course on this front. I'm not one for indulging in conspiracy theories (I've spent a chunk of today taking that kind of shit to task) but you surely can't deny we've backed the rebels in Syria, and that the majority of those rebels would appear to be Islamists of one type or another. We were on the verge of going to war for them not too long ago, how would that have worked out for the Syrian Kurds?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 9, 2014)

Delroy Booth said:


> Oh come on don't be so naive, we have openly backed some of the most unscrupulous characters in the whole damn middle-east in the course of these wars and it's only now that we've started to change course on this front. I'm not one for indulging in conspiracy theories (I've spent a chunk of today taking that kind of shit to task) but you surely can't deny we've backed the rebels in Syria, and that the majority of those rebels would appear to be Islamists of one type or another. We were on the verge of going to war for them not too long ago, how would that have worked out for the Syrian Kurds?


yeh we all know how it turns out some years later whether it's planes, trains or automobiles


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 9, 2014)

One of the things I'd say about Syrian Kurdistan is that they've actually been pretty successful at carving out an autonomous zone, almost exactly like they did in Iraq. So, there you have it, an invasion and a civil war can have comparable side effects on minority groups provided they're geographically concentrated, well-prepared and have a strong national consciousness to draw on.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Apr 9, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> One of the things I'd say about Syrian Kurdistan is that they've actually been pretty successful at carving out an autonomous zone, almost exactly like they did in Iraq. So, there you have it, an invasion and a civil war can have comparable side effects on minority groups provided they're geographically concentrated, well-prepared and have a strong national consciousness to draw on.



Yeah but the difference there is Assad has been much less brutal and more pragmatic at handling the Kurds than Saddam Hussein ever was, as his Syria sort of depends on him keeping together a patchwork of minority groups to counterbalance the majority Sunni population who traditionally oppose him. Hussein on the other hand...


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

Assad, less brutal and much more pragmatic that Saddam when dealing with the Kurdish ethnic group. So we ask the Kurds in Northern Iraq, those that currently occupy territory that has been given autonomy, 'what do you think about all this?', what would be their answer? Also remember that this was a region in serious danger of being invaded (not by western imperialism) by any one of the Iranian, Syrian or Turk military.


----------



## Blagsta (Apr 10, 2014)

They're heavy on the censorship of this article

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ck-trial-nicky-jacobs-tottenham-three-justice

They're deleting comments about Cynthia Jarret, the framing of the Tottenham 3, who killed Blair Peach, in fact anything remotely interesting and pertinent to race relations and policing in London.


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ns-democracy-latin-america-mario-vargas-llosa

messianic dictatorship in Venezuela may spread across the whole region of Latin America. No mention of the messianic subversion in that region by Mr Kissinger.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> Assad, less brutal and much more pragmatic that Saddam when dealing with the Kurdish ethnic group. So we ask the Kurds in Northern Iraq, those that currently occupy territory that has been given autonomy, 'what do you think about all this?', what would be their answer? Also remember that this was a region in serious danger of being invaded (not by western imperialism) by any one of the Iranian, Syrian or Turk military.



I'd say a fair few of them would be deeply cynical about crediting the US-UK with "giving them autonomy", particularly given The Coalition's attitude to their fellow countrymen who have the misfortune to live in a NATO ally and the long history of US/UK support for Ba'athism in Iraq pre-1990. There's a good chance that many of them also regret the fact that their "glorious liberators" neglected to let them form a nation state on the grounds that it might annoy Turkey, thus exposing them to any future Baghdad governments coming over all nationalist. They might, at a stretch, be quite glad to have been the beneficiaries of the West's geopolitical whims just for once, although I sincerely doubt many of them put it down to anything other than being in the right place at the right time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 10, 2014)

now we've established the guardian is going down the pan, why hasn't it yet gone down the pan?


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ns-democracy-latin-america-mario-vargas-llosa
> 
> messianic dictatorship in Venezuela may spread across the whole region of Latin America. No mention of the messianic subversion in that region by Mr Kissinger.



Vargas Llosa is a fucking cunt who said during his election campaign that the culture of the Peruvian Indians needed to 'disappear'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 10, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Vargas Llosa is a fucking cunt who said during his election campaign that the culture of the Peruvian Indians needed to 'disappear'.


shurely nobel prizewinner vargas llosa is a fucking cunt ...


----------



## andysays (Apr 10, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> now we've established the guardian is going down the pan, why hasn't it yet gone down the pan?



Dodgy tax avoidance schemes and being subsidised by profits from Auto Trader, allegedly


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 10, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> shurely nobel prizewinner vargas llosa is a fucking cunt ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 10, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


>


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/4257746/A-cycle-of-Pedantry.html


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 10, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> now we've established the guardian is going down the pan, why hasn't it yet gone down the pan?



Tonybee hasn't flushed


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 10, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Vargas Llosa is a fucking cunt who said during his election campaign that the culture of the Peruvian Indians needed to 'disappear'.


I'm not sure why "Westernised conservative politician is hostile to Chavismo" is suddenly news.


----------



## andysays (Apr 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Tonybee hasn't flushed



Given the Guardian's rep for typos, I love this, even if it was an accident.

Everyone should call her Tonybee from now


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> I'd say a fair few of them would be deeply cynical about crediting the US-UK with "giving them autonomy", particularly given The Coalition's attitude to their fellow countrymen who have the misfortune to live in a NATO ally and the long history of US/UK support for Ba'athism in Iraq pre-1990. There's a good chance that many of them also regret the fact that their "glorious liberators" neglected to let them form a nation state on the grounds that it might annoy Turkey, thus exposing them to any future Baghdad governments coming over all nationalist. They might, at a stretch, be quite glad to have been the beneficiaries of the West's geopolitical whims just for once, although I sincerely doubt many of them put it down to anything other than being in the right place at the right time.



glorious liberators........ bit far fetched. I'm sure a great many of them might be deeply cynical, who wouldn't be in such circumstances. Your calling the Kurds of Turkey fellow countrymen to those Kurds in Northern Iraq? Ive known Kurds in Turkey whom are happily integrated into Turkish society. Not weighting this fact with any implications, just throwing it out there. Hows about the prophecy you make about future Iraqi leadership? Prophesise for me right now, where you think Iraq would be at this moment if it wasn't for the invasion of the coalition forces and T-balls the war criminal?


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Vargas Llosa is a fucking cunt who said during his election campaign that the culture of the Peruvian Indians needed to 'disappear'.



Surely, pan - down it


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> glorious liberators........ bit far fetched. I'm sure a great many of them might be deeply cynical, who wouldn't be in such circumstances. Your calling the Kurds of Turkey fellow countrymen to those Kurds in Northern Iraq? Ive known Kurds in Turkey whom are happily integrated into Turkish society. Not weighting this fact with any implications, just throwing it out there. Hows about the prophecy you make about future Iraqi leadership? Prophesise for me right now, where you think Iraq would be at this moment if it wasn't for the invasion of the coalition forces and T-balls the war criminal?


well, there would probably be more Iraqi's still alive. And very nice of you to simply dismiss the oppression of Turkish kurds so simply. The large majority feel their treatment has got a hell of a lot worse since the invasion of Iraq, one or two people having made chums in Ankara doesnt change that one bit.


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

belboid said:


> well, there would probably be more Iraqi's still alive. And very nice of you to simply dismiss the oppression of Turkish kurds so simply. The large majority feel their treatment has got a hell of a lot worse since the invasion of Iraq, one or two people having made chums in Ankara doesnt change that one bit.



Saddams death squads didnt do no killing then, eeerrrrrrrr? Did I dismiss the oppression of Kurdish people in Turkey, or is that you intentionally giving what I said a different slant so you can vex me with your sarcasm. Good job old boy'id.


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

I am though, very keen to hear you elaborate on how the Kurds in Turkey feel that their situation has gotten worse. Seriously.


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> Saddams death squads didnt do no killing then, eeerrrrrrrr? Did I dismiss the oppression of Kurdish people in Turkey, or is that you intentionally giving what I said a different slant so you try and vex me with your sarcasm. Good job old boy'id.


of course Saddam killed people. But the death rate shot up during and after the invasion. IT caused more deaths than he did. That's he fact.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2014)

belboid said:


> of course Saddam killed people. But the death rate shot up during and after the invasion. IT caused more deaths than he did. That's he fact.


Add up the sanctions that s/he supports and the deaths caused by invasion and occupation that s/he supports and we're over 2 million. Now, what they comparing again?


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Add up the sanctions that s/he supports and the deaths caused by invasion and occupation that s/he supports and we're over 2 million. Now, what they comparing again?



so its a numbers game is it? I didnt kill as many as he did. Whos the worst Manson or Dahmer? And no, not supporting any invasion, just asking questions.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> so its a numbers game is it? I didnt kill as many as he did. Whos the worst Manson or Dahmer? And no, not supporting any invasion, just asking questions.


In order to establish the grounds for supporting an invasion and occupation. In think the numbers game matters to your case here. Can you answer it? Before you get heaved out the door that is.


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> so its a numbers game is it? I didnt kill as many as he did. Whos the worst Manson or Dahmer? And no, not supporting any invasion, just asking questions.


you dont liberate people by killing them, its pretty simple.


----------



## Jay Park (Apr 10, 2014)

so its a numbers game is it? I didnt kill as many as he did. Whos the worst Manson or Dahmer? And no, not supporting any invasion, just asking questions.

I politely re-affirm that I am not a supporter of the invasion or Iraq. Think its important to retrace the steps once every so often. Also, I didn't use the euphemism 'liberate' until it was ironically used by somebody else. Though, I don't really need to mention this.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> so its a numbers game is it? I didnt kill as many as he did. Whos the worst Manson or Dahmer? And no, not supporting any invasion, just asking questions.
> 
> I politely re-affirm that I am not a supporter of the invasion or Iraq. Think its important to retrace the steps once every so often. Also, I didn't use the euphemism 'liberate' until it was ironically used by somebody else. Though, I don't really need to mention this.


You made a case for supporting the invasion and occupation of Iraq - one based on made up nonsense. Do you want to retrace that? I didn't mention liberate either my little fake faker.


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> so its a numbers game is it? I didnt kill as many as he did. Whos the worst Manson or Dahmer? And no, not supporting any invasion, just asking questions.


repeating something doesn't make it true.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 10, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Vargas Llosa is a fucking cunt who said during his election campaign that the culture of the Peruvian Indians needed to 'disappear'.



His stuff has been pimped all over El País ever since their new pro-PP owners took over.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 10, 2014)

andysays said:


> Dodgy tax avoidance schemes and being subsidised by profits from Auto Trader, allegedly



They sold their stake in Auto Trader a month or so ago for £619m, leaving the Scott Trust with north of £850m in investment funds. They'll be one of the last newspapers standing. http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/guardian-secure-generations-come-after-tax-free-bonanza-£619m-auto-trader-sale


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2014)

I just happy the peterloo dead finally achieved something: £1.4bn return on investment.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2014)

> A GMG spokesperson told Press Gazette that they won't be paying any tax on the £619m because of the "substanial shareholding exemption" which automatically applies under HMRC rules.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2014)

All tax avoiding stuff applies automatically btw - that's how it works. You don't have to go and beg in person.


----------



## savoloysam (Apr 10, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Stop being beastly about Tony you Lefties! http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/08/tony-blair-labour-pride-war-criminal-iraq



There are not enough facepalms.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 10, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> now we've established the guardian is going down the pan, why hasn't it yet gone down the pan?



They make quite a bit out of being your first call for 'middle-class crumpet' at £32 per month:

https://soulmates.theguardian.com

Jemble central.


----------



## andysays (Apr 10, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> They sold their stake in Auto Trader a month or so ago for £619m, leaving the Scott Trust with north of £850m in investment funds. They'll be one of the last newspapers standing. http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/guardian-secure-generations-come-after-tax-free-bonanza-£619m-auto-trader-sale



And I'm sure that generations of Oxbridge journalists will be pleased to hear it.


----------



## Blagsta (Apr 23, 2014)

awful article referring to the luddites

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/technophobes-innovation-natural-human-response


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 23, 2014)

Calling Delroy Booth


----------



## savoloysam (Apr 24, 2014)

Twats taking down the comments when they don't get the comments they like.

Fuck me even the Daily Mail isn't that bad. In fact the Daily Mail comments are a great hoot when they backfire.


----------



## rekil (May 1, 2014)

From the May Day live update page.


> More May Day reading material. If Piketty is not to your taste, try Atlas Shrugged, the 1,000 page plus doorstoper by Ayan Rand, muse to Alan Greenspan, former US Federal Reserve chairman. It's fiction, of course, but as a paean to unbridled capitalism, it's an unsurpassable romp. It's about captains of industry who withdraw their labour and seek refuge in their version of Shangri-La, wrecking the US economy - deprived of their ingenuity, their pursuit of profit and self-interest. The book features a speech by the hero, John Galt, that goes on for 60 pages setting out Rand's argument for capitalism. Apparently those pages took Rand two years to write.


No need for this.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 1, 2014)

In mitigation, I was rather tickled today by the description of Steven Berkoff as “weaponised Gary Oldman” in an article about hammy actors 

http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2014/may/01/hammy-baddies-film-kiefer-sutherland-pompeii


----------



## rekil (May 1, 2014)

That guardian mayday "live update" only 'covers' 5 or 6 countries.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 2, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> In mitigation, I was rather tickled today by the description of Steven Berkoff as “weaponised Gary Oldman” in an article about hammy actors
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2014/may/01/hammy-baddies-film-kiefer-sutherland-pompeii



I lost respect for Berkoff when he did "Beverley Hills Cop".  He really hammed that one to the bone.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

Lenny Henry campaigner
Lenny Henry campaigner
Lenny Henry campaigner
Lenny Henry campaigner
Are you a Lenny Henry campaigner?
Do you know a Lenny Henry campaigner?


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2014)

I would probably call a Lenny Henry campaigner during a Harry Potter emergency.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Lenny Henry campaigner
> Lenny Henry campaigner
> Lenny Henry campaigner
> Lenny Henry campaigner
> ...


i'm not sure if i'm pro- or anti-lenny henry but i think the general consensus is he's not as funny as he used to be. perhaps it's time for some challenging comedy from the younger generation.


----------



## belboid (May 4, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/04/i-was-guilty-constance-briscoe-decption

Ugh,ugh, ugh.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2014)




----------



## rekil (May 9, 2014)




----------



## killer b (May 9, 2014)

'make the world fall in love with Nick Clegg _again_'

_we were suckers, therefore everyone else must have been too. _


----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2014)

I'm a lying twat and the Guardian still pays me to write articles, what are you going to do about it? Look at how smug I am, and no one hits me. Life is good.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 10, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I'm a lying twat and the Guardian still pay me to write articles, what are you going to do about it? Look at how smug I am, and no one hits me. Life is good.



Thinking face:






Pre-waterboarding face:


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2014)

copliker said:


> View attachment 53574


swearing at someone will often provoke a response too. or writing bollocks in the grauniad.


----------



## tbtommyb (May 10, 2014)

copliker said:


> View attachment 53574


Not really Guardian-specific, but I find Caitlin Moran irritating. She always appears in photos in contrived, 'kooky' poses and I have yet to read an article by her that isn't of the 'fill the page with whimsical observations of daily life' type.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

Huhne, the lib-dem thief and liar has had 45 articles printed since his release from prison.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2014)

lets not just call him a liar, that suggests little white lies and falsehoods of convenience. Huhne lied under oath, before a court. Over a fucking speeding ticket.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Here's the cached article. Jamie Doward as author.
> 
> Here's a typical claim by Madsen (not the names involved - Corsi etc)
> 
> Maybe they should all have to go on one of these? This one maybe?


Jamie Doward is now claiming that something widely reported in 2010 (including in his own paper):



> [it] has emerged that attempts to introduce a form of labelling were approved by the European parliament in June 2010.



They do, i'm not kidding, get paid for this.

That observer article that he should have been fired over:


----------



## Favelado (May 11, 2014)

I was away for a while so forgive my tardiness in complaining about March the 11th. On this date, The Guardian couldn't be arsed commemorating the tenth anniversary of the Atocha bombings, which killed 191 people, and instead had "Tehran Street Style - In Pictures" and an article about hipsters wearing monocles on the front page of the website.


----------



## Nylock (May 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> lets not just call him a liar, that suggests little white lies and falsehoods of convenience. Huhne lied under oath, before a court. Over a fucking speeding ticket.


'Huhne the Perjurer' has a certain ring to it


----------



## butchersapron (May 13, 2014)

Riotous


----------



## butchersapron (May 13, 2014)

French women yesterday, that's them.

Voting for the National Front.

Seriously, could they get anymore, _oh god women, france, i know a french woman whose famous, that'll do. _


----------



## Dogsauce (May 14, 2014)

That caption is straight out of an Onion piece: "French women do know some things".


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2014)

there is an air of the vic reeves style thigh-rubbing about that line


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 15, 2014)

Talking of Brockes (on the other thread)...

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...once-solange-knowles-instagram-photos-scandal



> ...It can be confusing. As my hairdresser said yesterday, "How will we ever know what happened? They're so private."


----------



## Favelado (May 15, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Talking of Brockes (on the other thread)...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...once-solange-knowles-instagram-photos-scandal



What about this? Oh god, LAMINATE floors. The shame. Fucking hell. My whole house is covered in cheap laminate and there's WOOD-CHIP on my walls. Maybe I shouldn't invite people round anymore.

"A single example, plucked at random from a lifetime's supply: years ago, after I'd been bickering with a friend who was visiting my flat in London, she fell silent for several minutes and then, pointing to my wooden floors, observed, "You know that floor's laminate, don't you?" (It was laminate. I'd been lying to myself for years that it was pine."

Move the fucking thing  back to Manchester for god's sake.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2014)

it was still a strike denying anti working class rag even back in the olden days


----------



## Brainaddict (May 15, 2014)

I don't usually post on this thread, being resigned to the quiet subservience of the guardian class in the face of power. But this, this is an infomercial. Or a docuvertisement. Or some shite like that. It is about Renegade Professionals. And you need to read it. Because otherwise how will you respect these renegades who have risen among us? Or at least, how will you believe this horror was actually created by someone?

http://surface.theguardian.com/

Spoiler: it reads like a masterpiece from The Onion.


----------



## Favelado (May 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> it was still a strike denying anti working class rag even back in the olden days



Really? Bah. I had a romantic notion that it was once good.

The series of articles telling you "How to dress/eat" are possibly the very worst of all now. How you could cook that up in a meeting room and not think it was patronising is beyond me. The way we are all supposed to eat and drink is the way better-off people in a 5 mile radius of N1 do by the way.

No wait, my least favourite thing is the Guardian's attitude to the North. The articles that read as if the journo has just arrived in territory as unfamiliar as the Amazon with "Bye 'eck!" and "Grim up North" comedy headlines. Articles about the East End never have "slaaaaaaaaaag" or "right knees up" in the headline though, becaue it would be crass to take the piss out of wonderful London of course. London is one of just two important cities in the world, the other being New York. Knowing this makes for a marvellously broad appreciation of world media, culture and events.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Really? Bah. I had a romantic notion that it was once good.
> 
> The series of articles telling you "How to dress/eat" are possibly the very worst of all now. How you could cook that up in a meeting room and not think it was patronising is beyond me. The way we are all supposed to eat and drink is the way better-off people in a 5 mile radius of N1 do by the way.
> 
> No wait, my least favourite thing is the Guardian's attitude to the North. The articles that read as if the journo has just arrived in territory as unfamiliar as the Amazon with "Bye 'eck!" and "Grim up North" comedy headlines. Articles about the East End never have "slaaaaaaaaaag" or "right knees up" in the headline though, becaue it would be crass to take the piss out of wonderful London of course. London is one of just two important cities in the world of course, the other being New York. Knowing this makes for a marvellously broad appreciation of world media, culture and events.


They have 2 northern reporters now, down from 90 not too long ago.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I'm a lying twat and the Guardian still pays me to write articles, what are you going to do about it? Look at how smug I am, and no one hits me. Life is good.


Surprised he'd want to given their role in publicising his outing as an amazon review trasher of his enemies.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Really? Bah. I had a romantic notion that it was once good.
> 
> The series of articles telling you "How to dress/eat" are possibly the very worst of all now. How you could cook that up in a meeting room and not think it was patronising is beyond me. The way we are all supposed to eat and drink is the way better-off people in a 5 mile radius of N1 do by the way.
> 
> No wait, my least favourite thing is the Guardian's attitude to the North. The articles that read as if the journo has just arrived in territory as unfamiliar as the Amazon with "Bye 'eck!" and "Grim up North" comedy headlines. Articles about the East End never have "slaaaaaaaaaag" or "right knees up" in the headline though, becaue it would be crass to take the piss out of wonderful London of course. London is one of just two important cities in the world, the other being New York. Knowing this makes for a marvellously broad appreciation of world media, culture and events.



the beeb are just as bad for the london centrism. I wonder how much we are paying for beeb minions to do the london-to-media city every day?

And some of their 'talent' quit rather than relocate outside of holy Londinium !


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2014)

i'm very disappointed by this thread as it seems to me that the guardian has not as such "gone down the pan" as it has continued its auld practices. in addition, the thread doesn't say WHY it's got worse (if it has), only HOW it has failed to reach some posters' standards. b-: must try harder.


----------



## Favelado (May 15, 2014)

Great feedback. Please everyone, let's make sure we're satisfying Pickman's Model. Let's get our priorities right here.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2014)

nah, I'll take a B-, thats still a pass grade


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Great feedback. Please everyone, let's make sure we're satisfying Pickman's Model. Let's get our priorities right here.


it's not about satisfying me, it's whether you want a thread which shows that the guardian is a shit newspaper (which isn't really news) or whether you want a thread that says WHY it is a shit newspaper, which if this one is, it is so only tangentially. or you could simply post up your usual cack-handed bollocks which impresses no one but you.


----------



## Favelado (May 15, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> it's not about satisfying me, it's whether you want a thread which shows that the guardian is a shit newspaper (which isn't really news) or whether you want a thread that says WHY it is a shit newspaper, which if this one is, it is so only tangentially. or you could simply post up your usual cack-handed bollocks which impresses no one but you.



It's absolutely fine to have a thread that criticises the Guardian in any which way U75 posters feel. That's what it now is.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2014)

Favelado said:


> It's absolutely fine to have a thread that criticises the Guardian in any which way U75 posters feel. That's what it now is.


you mean "as long as that poster's not Pickman's"


----------



## Dogsauce (May 15, 2014)

Brainaddict said:


> I don't usually post on this thread, being resigned to the quiet subservience of the guardian class in the face of power. But this, this is an infomercial. Or a docuvertisement. Or some shite like that. It is about Renegade Professionals. And you need to read it. Because otherwise how will you respect these renegades who have risen among us? Or at least, how will you believe this horror was actually created by someone?
> 
> http://surface.theguardian.com/
> 
> Spoiler: it reads like a masterpiece from The Onion.



Ew.  I spotted 'Vibrant' and 'Street Food' within about 30 seconds and backed slowly away.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2014)

Favelado said:


> The Guardian. It's driving me mad but it's still the one I go to.


the guardian's loyal opposition


----------



## Brainaddict (May 15, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Ew.  I spotted 'Vibrant' and 'Street Food' within about 30 seconds and backed slowly away.


 No. You must read it all.

"There are certain things about the burger and how we do things that we will not compromise on."


----------



## Favelado (May 15, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> the guardian's loyal opposition



I think my exasperation has gone up a further couple of notches since then. I read it every day but it's more like having a sore tooth I can't stop touching.


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2014)

A giant of the victorian labour movement gets this treatment (presumably by the sub rather than the reviewer):


----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> A giant of the victorian labour movement gets this treatment (presumably by the sub rather than the reviewer):
> 
> View attachment 53948


 Our old stoker.


----------



## mauvais (May 16, 2014)

This is an excellent critique of capitalism:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/15/astrazeneca-shareholders-body-shop?CMP=fb_gu

Ahahaha.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 16, 2014)

Anita Roddick did adverts for American Express, who had links with the fur trade.  Body Shop can fuck off.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 16, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Anita Roddick did adverts for American Express, who had links with the fur trade.  Body Shop can fuck off.



Also very anti-union.


----------



## Lo Siento. (May 16, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Also very anti-union.


but nice companies don't need unions Idris.


----------



## MAD-T-REX (May 18, 2014)

Can we include the Observer in this thread? Columnist says domestic violence against men is much less unacceptable than violence against women, because men are stronger and stuff: http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nce-fight-assault-domestic-violence-men-women 

I'm sure some fuckwit of an editor is thinking 'What a great debate we've started!' (or, more likely, 'This bullshit is generating a lot of clicks.')


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2014)

Damarr said:


> Can we include the Observer in this thread? Columnist says domestic violence against men is much less unacceptable than violence against women, because men are stronger and stuff: http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nce-fight-assault-domestic-violence-men-women
> 
> I'm sure some fuckwit of an editor is thinking 'What a great debate we've started!' (or, more likely, 'This bullshit is generating a lot of clicks.')


if you think the two things are the same, you're a brain dead fuckwit. Fuck off to the Mail forums


----------



## MAD-T-REX (May 18, 2014)

Thanks for the reply, you belligerent asshole.

The columnist is a troll or an idiot for suggesting that the negative consequences of domestic abuse are inherently less serious for individual male victims. The fact that many more women are murdered by men than vice versa does not make every individual male more resilient to physical, mental or emotional injury. 

Acknowledging the suffering of victims isn't a zero-sum game, you know - you can recognise the extent of violence against women without downplaying the suffering of individual men. Whether Jay-Z or any one else is put in fear by a violent act depends on the particular circumstances, not a pie chart of national abuse that shows most of it falls on women.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2014)

You're a brain dead cunt, deliberately misrepresenting the piece. Just fuck off.


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2014)

More nasty victim blaming from Barbara Ellen, I see that she has moved on from belittling people suffering from depression to victims of domestic violence.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2014)

J Ed said:


> More nasty victim blaming from Barbara Ellen, I see that she has moved on from belittling people suffering from depression to victims of domestic violence.


Victim blaming? Are you kidding? There isn't any.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 18, 2014)

Bellen's piece seems pretty reasonable to me.


----------



## MAD-T-REX (May 18, 2014)

belboid said:


> You're a brain dead cunt, deliberately misrepresenting the piece. Just fuck off.


Ho hum.


belboid said:


> Victim blaming? Are you kidding? There isn't any.





> Who knows what prompted Solange Knowles to lash out at her brother-in-law, Jay-Z, in a lift at the Met ball, held back by a bodyguard, while her sister, Beyoncé, passively observed? Was Solange drunk, frustrated about her career, *sticking up for her sister* – all or none of the above?


i.e. Jay-Z did or said something to Beyonce to provoke Solange Knowles. 

Not many articles on domestic violence begin by pondering whether the victim had it coming.


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2014)

Nor does that one.


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2014)

belboid said:


> Victim blaming? Are you kidding? There isn't any.



There are no male victims of domestic violence who are abused by women? Clearly there are, and she is downplaying the seriousness of it, and is at the least coming very close to suggesting that in this case the victim had it coming because the perpetrator was drunk, frustrated or was angry about domestic issues.


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2014)

BTW, and this should be obvious, the relative size of two people in a relationship doesn't necessarily dictate the amount of violence one is capable or willing to dole out to the other. You can be a lot smaller than the other person and get away with a lot of violence because the larger person in a couple isn't willing to retaliate or is being controlled through emotional as well as physical abuse in the same way as the opposite can be the case.

I'm not saying that this is a typical situation but I don't think it's atypical enough to dismiss out of hand as Barbara Ellen does here.


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2014)

This is the guardian being provocative rather than going down the pan.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2014)

Damarr said:


> Ho hum.
> 
> 
> i.e. Jay-Z did or said something to Beyonce to provoke Solange Knowles.
> ...


And nor does that one, not even in the bit you quote. It's pretty bloody clear. 



J Ed said:


> There are no male victims of domestic violence who are abused by women? Clearly there are, and she is downplaying the seriousness of it, and is at the least coming very close to suggesting that in this case the victim had it coming because the perpetrator was drunk, frustrated or was angry about domestic issues.


It downplays nothing, it clearly talks about the male victims of DA and suggests absolutely notching of the kind that the victim had it coming. And had it coming 'because the PERPETRATOR was drunk'? Do you seriously think she is arguing that it's okay to hit someone because you're drunk?  Because that's is what you just said.


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2014)

belboid said:


> It downplays nothing, it clearly talks about the male victims of DA and suggests absolutely notching of the kind that the victim had it coming. And had it coming 'because the PERPETRATOR was drunk'? Do you seriously think she is arguing that it's okay to hit someone because you're drunk?  Because that's is what you just said.



It doesn't suggest that it's okay but it isn't exactly an outright condemnation to say the least, and she casually admits to doing it



> What's more, women tend to be aware of this, if only subliminally. *Some females might have periods in their life when they get "slap-happy"*, primarily when socialising, maybe when attention seeking, *usually when drunk (guilty!)*.



In this article (certain forms) of domestic violence are something to be explained away as a bit naughty. Sort of like having a cheeky fag at school. Horrible, absolutely horrible.


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It doesn't suggest that it's okay but it isn't exactly an outright condemnation to say the least, and she casually admits to doing it
> 
> 
> 
> In this article (certain forms) of domestic violence are something to be explained away as a bit naughty. Sort of like having a cheeky fag at school. Horrible, absolutely horrible.


She differentiates between DV and this nonsense. There are situations where that nonsense would constitute DV - not here. She also suggests that this sort of behavior is acceptable in women at certain stage when drunk - _that _is why it's a shit article - nothing to do with DV.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It doesn't suggest that it's okay but it isn't exactly an outright condemnation to say the least, and she casually admits to doing it
> 
> In this article (certain forms) of domestic violence are something to be explained away as a bit naughty. Sort of like having a cheeky fag at school. Horrible, absolutely horrible.


Utter nonsense. The following line shows you are wrong, women who do this become (rightly) 'ashamed, embarrassed or have belatedly realised they're disgusting dogs' It is no way supportive.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> She differentiates between DV and this nonsense. There are situations where that nonsense would constitute DV - not here. She also suggests that this sort of behavior is acceptable in women at certain stage we drunk - _that _is why it's a shit article - nothing to do with DV.


she doesnt even say its acceptable - understandable maybe (only chance to hit back against a, usually, larger male), but still bloody stupid.


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2014)

belboid said:


> she doesnt even say its acceptable - understandable maybe (only chance to hit back against a, usually, larger male), but still bloody stupid.


She suggests that it's rite of passage - so something _we _all pass through. And stuff about it being "(only chance to hit back against a, usually, larger male)" just doesn't appear in what she wrote.


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2014)

Guardian lets convicted criminal defend other criminals http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/18/mep-member-european-parliament-vote


----------



## CNT36 (May 19, 2014)

Brainaddict said:


> I don't usually post on this thread, being resigned to the quiet subservience of the guardian class in the face of power. But this, this is an infomercial. Or a docuvertisement. Or some shite like that. It is about Renegade Professionals. And you need to read it. Because otherwise how will you respect these renegades who have risen among us? Or at least, how will you believe this horror was actually created by someone?
> 
> http://surface.theguardian.com/
> 
> Spoiler: it reads like a masterpiece from The Onion.


I hope you have entered the competition - http://surface.theguardian.com/vote/


----------



## CNT36 (May 19, 2014)




----------



## butchersapron (May 19, 2014)

Ooh yeah, having some of that later.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2014)

ronin of the pen


----------



## tbtommyb (May 19, 2014)

Oppression: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/19/only-child-parenting-multiple-children

I also like the accompanying 'cool baby at a festival' photo


----------



## butchersapron (May 19, 2014)

Re: above 

Stop asking mothers when we'll have more kids. It's OK to have an only child

Stop telling me to make sure the freezers shut. I ALWAYS DO!!!


----------



## brogdale (May 19, 2014)




----------



## J Ed (May 19, 2014)

What every uber-Graunid reader wears on their feet...


----------



## brogdale (May 19, 2014)

J Ed said:


> What every uber-Graunid reader wears on their feet...


----------



## Brainaddict (May 20, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I hope you have entered the competition - http://surface.theguardian.com/vote/


Their fancy java or whatever the hell they coded the page in tragically doesn't work on my machine. So I'll be rooting for you to win, you bloody renegade you.


----------



## butchersapron (May 21, 2014)

Nigel Farage hints at 'common front' with communists from Greece to block EU laws.


----------



## brogdale (May 21, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Nigel Farage hints at 'common front' with communists from Greece to block EU laws.


 Rowena again.


----------



## butchersapron (May 22, 2014)

> The whole run chase had taken just over 45 overs. Somerset, on a charge, now move into second place in the County Championship, behind Middlesex, although both those teams have played a match more than their rivals. This is turning out to be a really open competition.



Why lie like this?


----------



## Favelado (May 25, 2014)

So. Front page is pretty awful right now.

"Our new fascination with posh. We can't get enough of the upper classes."
"We were fascinated by the denizens of Benefits Street, but now the cameras have turned on the upper classes"

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/may/25/after-benefits-street-watch-posh-on-bond-street


----------



## Blagsta (May 26, 2014)

I'm constantly amazed at the over zealous modding in the comments section.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 26, 2014)

Blagsta said:


> I'm constantly amazed at the over zealous modding in the comments section.



It's not that odd. A) the business model, such as it is, is for the Guardian to be "curators" of comment, rather than merely a platform, b) they have the wetware resource to be zealous, but perhaps not enough to be thoughtful as well, c) after being sued by someone who was maligned on CIF and taking the whole site down as a result, they are even twitchier than other media owners about potential legal threats.


----------



## Blagsta (May 26, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's not that odd. A) the business model, such as it is, is for the Guardian to be "curators" of comment, rather than merely a platform, b) they have the wetware resource to be zealous, but perhaps not enough to be thoughtful as well, c) after being sued by someone who was maligned on CIF and taking the whole site down as a result, they are even twitchier than other media owners about potential legal threats.



They delete things that do not breach any of their guidelines and for no particularly discernible reason.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 26, 2014)

tbh I've got no sympathy with people who comment on CIF


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 26, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> tbh I've got no sympathy with people who comment on CIF



Sorry, I meant Guardian Talk or whatever Not The Talk was. It wasn't CIF.


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/27/-sp-racism-on-rise-in-britain


New Guardian beta, really hard to follow, imo


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2014)

Just getting basic stuff right:



> Oakeshott also claimed his own party - and others - have been involved in offering cash for peerages.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Just getting basic stuff right:


Like a less scrupulous Crack Converters.

“Now, you're sure this was definitely your own duchy to sell? You look the honest type, so I won't ask for any paperwork...”


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2014)

I know you've got to write on the hoof but:



> The question for him now is: if he really felt this strongly, what did he do to stop Oakeshott, why did he continue to be his friend and why didn't he tell anyone?


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/31/how-england-fan-world-cup-2014



> How to be an England fan
> Will we? Won't we? OK, we're an outside bet for the World Cup 2014 – but in the meantime here's how *James Corden, Ed Balls*, Katy B and others are planning to make the most of the ride


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2014)

can't they just stick to the fucking murrays mound and pimms stuff


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2014)

I hate James Corden so much, Murdoch shill unfunny full of himself cunt


----------



## teqniq (May 31, 2014)

Tbh i don't give a flying fuck about the World Cup, no matter which publication is tripping over itself to breathlessly tell us the latest news. I am more interested in the protests that have been happening in Brazil as a consequence of this wankfest.


----------



## Belushi (May 31, 2014)

They've approved of association football since Pavarotti and Italia '90.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2014)

and if you need a senior labour politician to tell you how to be a football fan then I think you are already on a hiding to nothing


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2014)

Belushi said:


> They've approved of association football since Pavarotti and Italia '90.




did that co-incide with seating? And artisan half time pies?


----------



## Belushi (May 31, 2014)

It was the start of the gentrification of the game.


----------



## treelover (Jun 3, 2014)

just read that Rusbridger has been editor since 1995, that's nearly 20 years, how on earth does that happen?, BBC D/G's don't last that long, nor do many CEO's.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 3, 2014)

I wonder where the idea for this article might have come from?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ong-pitbull-jennifer-lopez-we-are-one-ole-ola

Thieving cunts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2014)

Favelado said:


> I wonder where the idea for this article might have come from?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ong-pitbull-jennifer-lopez-we-are-one-ole-ola
> 
> Thieving cunts.



where then?


----------



## Favelado (Jun 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> where then?



Am I being daft? Isn't it PD's Eurovision analysis lazily ripped off?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Am I being daft? Isn't it PD's Eurovision analysis lazily ripped off?




ah yes, there is a girderesque quality to it.


----------



## rekil (Jun 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> where then?


PD's eurovision or chuckle brothers things?


----------



## Favelado (Jun 3, 2014)

> *Will Letizia Ortiz shake up royal style in Spain?*
> At first glance, the new queen of Spain's wardrobe is rather predictable, but there are hints of a sleek and practical point of view that is very much her own.



This about the abdication in Spain as well. Horrid.

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...l-letizia-ortiz-shake-up-royal-style-in-spain


----------



## Favelado (Jun 3, 2014)

copliker said:


> PD's eurovision or chuckle brothers things?



Yeah them. You know what I mean right?

e2a this. I don't think this was a coincidence.

http://proletariandemocracy.wordpre...cracy-eurovision-song-contest-preview-part-2/


----------



## rekil (Jun 3, 2014)

Wouldn't mind that much, but it's even less funny than the eurovision stuff.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2014)

of course the appropriation of PD house style is bound to be doomed in the hands of a fabian journo


----------



## Favelado (Jun 3, 2014)

There is the opportunity to write something from a faux-Posadist perspective about Stuart Jeffries that might annoy him.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 7, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/07/house-price-london-move-countryside?commentpage=1

An article about how middle class white people from London are selling their homes at a huge profit and moving to the countryside. No mention of the social and economic implications of this sort of behaviour on the places they move to, nor the plight of non-homeowners in London as property prices spiral further and further out of control.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 7, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> middle class white people .



Quite how did you get to that from the article?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 7, 2014)

we've all seen escape to the country


----------



## teqniq (Jun 7, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> we've all seen escape to the country


but I never saw the final episode, did they get away?


----------



## killer b (Jun 7, 2014)

teqniq said:


> but I never saw the final episode, did they get away?


it ended on a cliffhanger, with the zombies breaking through the back door.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 7, 2014)




----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 7, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> can't they just stick to the fucking murrays mound and pimms stuff



The middle classes have been appropriating football from the working classes for more than two decades now, unfortunately.  Not that I disagreed with the findings of the Taylor Report, but all-seaters basically removed one source of middle class fear with regard to going to a league match - the fear of having to stand with the great unwashed while they indulged in their "football hooliganism".


----------



## Belushi (Jun 7, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Quite how did you get to that from the article?



Err, because they're all white in the photographs and the accompanying text describes their professional jobs and the hundreds of thousands of pounds they'd spent buying London homes in the first place?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 7, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Err, because they're all white in the photographs and the accompanying text describes their professional jobs and the hundreds of thousands of pounds they'd spent buying London homes in the first place?



They are not all photographed.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 7, 2014)

I'm sure that it is entirely non representative.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 7, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Quite how did you get to that from the article?



It had something to do with all the pictures of middle class white people.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2014)

A Johnny Vodka for the middle classes


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2014)

I see that Victoria Coren shares my view that Kirstie Allsopp is actually a deep undercover Maoist secret agent whose endless promotion of buying to rent and gilding pears at Christmas is a very clever way of exposing the decadence of capitalism


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2014)

Words that chill:



> ...As I reported in my 2012 book...



...and...



> ...is a daily columnist for the Guardian US...


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> we've all seen escape to the country



"You'll work harder with a gun at your back"


----------



## gabi (Jun 11, 2014)

Good god. How in gods name does shit like this get published in a national paper

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/10/sleeve-tattoos-hipster-habit-unartistic-art


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 11, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> "You'll work harder with a gun at your back"



Frankly, I prefer the "then your head's skewered on a stake" part of the equation.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 17, 2014)

This article manages to patronise people who wear football shirts as a form of identity while oozing with the 'I don't watch football how cosmopolitan am I' to demonstrate that the author has a particular (very annoying) identity http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/jun/16/world-cup-football-shirts-style-own-goal


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 17, 2014)

J Ed said:


> 'I don't watch football how cosmopolitan am I'



Though 8 out of her last 11 articles have been about the World Cup.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 17, 2014)

But by using the word 'soccer' she makes any other  mention of football she has made or makes irrelevant.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 18, 2014)

Drivel, maybe one to file under 'middle class problems'

http://www.theguardian.com/theobser...nts-are-discarded-at-festivals-and-i-know-why


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Drivel, maybe one to file under 'middle class problems'
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/theobser...nts-are-discarded-at-festivals-and-i-know-why



I'm sure I remember an Urbanite who did stewarding at a festie saying they picked themselves up a nice nearly-new tent because of this!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2014)

post-a-doble!


----------



## Nylock (Jun 18, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm sure I remember an Urbanite who did stewarding at a festie saying they picked themselves up a nice nearly-new tent because of this!


It's not just the tents... There's gallons of booze and tons of food left behind when the crowds clear-off... At one point last year we were bringing in food and beer by the wheelbarrowload to our encampment post-event... One of the crew was pissed out of his nut sat atop a pile of Strongbow like a jakey Smaug...


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 18, 2014)

A friend with a transit was working up at Leeds festival a few years ago and came back with it full of abandoned booze, kept their house in drink for a good six months or so. Tons of other loot too. From mates that do stewarding or other festival work apparently V-fests are the worst/best for people abandoning stuff - tends to be prickish ladrock bands at that one so kind of fits.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 18, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Though 8 out of her last 11 articles have been about the World Cup.



She's in Brazil to do colour pieces by the looks of it.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 18, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...grow-up-emoticons-teenagers#start-of-comments

this is fun. pompous preachy arse of a commentator gets totally owned by the below the line comments. Its like an urban thread.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 19, 2014)

Oh god this is painful http://www.theguardian.com/culture/video/2014/jun/18/sonar-festival-barcelona-24-hour-party-video

What a waste too, I'm pretty sure that if someone gave me a Guardian expenses account, a camera and a trip to Barcelona I and a lot of people I can think of could make something a lot more entertaining.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 19, 2014)

That is indeed painful...


----------



## Celyn (Jun 19, 2014)

Nylock said:


> It's not just the tents... There's gallons of booze and tons of food left behind when the crowds clear-off... At one point last year we were bringing in food and beer by the wheelbarrowload to our encampment post-event... One of the crew was pissed out of his nut sat atop a pile of Strongbow like a jakey Smaug...



That entire post, and perhaps particularly the last bit with the jakey Smaug atop a pile of Strongbow sounds as though it should be the beginning of some really long and wonderful story.	 	Perhaps Tolkien-y, or perhaps Lewis Carroll-ishly.   Or maybe Iain Banks.   Or maybe one of those old traditional ballads wherein our narrator enters the world of Faerie and has weird experiences the like of which no-one will believe.  Thomas the Rhymer sort of thing.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 19, 2014)

Celyn said:


> That entire post, and perhaps particularly the last bit with the jakey Smaug atop a pile of Strongbow sounds as though it should be the beginning of some really long and wonderful story.


heheh yeah


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 19, 2014)

Nylock said:


> heheh yeah



No.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 19, 2014)

Nylock said:


> heheh yeah


Give me a namecheck when you win your Nobel  and Booker and all those things.   

Oh, I've just realised - a Smaug atop a load of cider would be a dragon on a flagon... oh heck.  If I become obsessed with this not-existing epic, I will blame you.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 20, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> No.


Each to their own.


----------



## treelover (Jun 20, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/19/guardian-view-welfare-reform

Looks like the Guardian is backing Millibands benefit reforms and wants to go further

who is the leader writer these days?


----------



## rekil (Jun 21, 2014)

Lisa Snowdon: I ate a jacket potato with beans and grated cheese every day for two years


----------



## J Ed (Jun 21, 2014)

copliker said:


> Lisa Snowdon: I ate a jacket potato with beans and grated cheese every day for two years



That was incredibly pointless, wow.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 21, 2014)

> I make a smoothie, adding bee pollen and royal jelly



What?


----------



## rekil (Jun 21, 2014)

J Ed said:


> What?


It's an ad for waitrose and junk food brands I think.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2014)

copliker said:


> Lisa Snowdon: I ate a jacket potato with beans and grated cheese every day for two years



Badgers wants to know "beans then cheese, or cheese then beans?".


----------



## Badgers (Jun 21, 2014)

How do I get hold of Lisa?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 21, 2014)

By the throat?


----------



## rekil (Jun 21, 2014)




----------



## Awesome Wells (Jun 21, 2014)

copliker said:


> Lisa Snowdon: I ate a jacket potato with beans and grated cheese every day for two years


That changes everything.

The poor love. Shit we need a telethon


----------



## Belushi (Jun 22, 2014)

The Observer has another death of the hipster article, including two quotes which can't be real.



> _Not everyone agrees. At Hoxton Bar and Grill in east London, 24-year-old graduate Milly identifies with hipsters: "I mean, that's why we all live in east London. It just feels so real, like something creative and cool is happening."
> 
> Manny, a 28-year-old singer who has lived in Dalston for more than five years, likes the sense of community: "Young people haven't got jobs or work and they need it. It's like a tribe, like goths. I hope hipsters aren't dead, because I just signed a year lease on my flat_."


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2014)

i've found with the observer that the film n book reviews are the most sneering better-than-you shit.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 22, 2014)

Belushi said:


> The Observer has another death of the hipster article, including two quotes which can't be real.


I liked the photo caption though


----------



## J Ed (Jun 22, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/22/working-parents-freelance-poll



> Parents are increasingly choosing money and flexibility over the security of traditional jobs



Yeah. Choosing.

Fuck you.


----------



## treelover (Jun 23, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> I liked the photo caption though
> 
> View attachment 56248




How do 'hipsters' afford to live in east London?

At least the trustafarians around RTS, etc put their money where their mouth was.


----------



## xenon (Jun 23, 2014)

Hipster isn't really a thing. As such. It's just young-ish trendy folk. I mean, half of Brixton going by Urban 75 criteria, that's you lot that moved there BTW, could be called hiptsters by the same token 20 years ago. Hate not the hipster.. Well just alittle bit, the cup cake artisan beardy ones, obviously. But mostly they're just as fucked over as the rest of us.

OTOH, maybe I just don't cross paths with the real annoying ones.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 23, 2014)

I disagree, I think hipster as we currently use the term is a very definite style/lifestyle. Not that I mind them, all the ones I've met have been lovely. Not really a Brixton thing at all.


----------



## xenon (Jun 23, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I disagree, I think hipster as we currently use the term is a very definite style/lifestyle. Not that I mind them, all the ones I've met have been lovely. Not really a Brixton thing at all.



Really such a definite lifestyle, yet no one can seemingly agree what it is? Is it just a sinanim for Yuppies? If so OK. But, that doesn't include a lot of hipsters. A lot of them haven't actually got that much money. 

I didn't read the Guardian article BTW< just arguing the toss.


----------



## xenon (Jun 23, 2014)

Observer article even.


----------



## DownwardDog (Jun 23, 2014)

xenon said:


> Hipster isn't really a thing. As such. It's just young-ish trendy folk. I mean, half of Brixton going by Urban 75 criteria, that's you lot that moved there BTW, could be called hiptsters by the same token 20 years ago. Hate not the hipster.. Well just alittle bit, the cup cake artisan beardy ones, obviously. But mostly they're just as fucked over as the rest of us.
> 
> OTOH, maybe I just don't cross paths with the real annoying ones.



I saw one the other day with his beard, his fucking glasses, his Hitler haircut and his fixie; his t-shirt read: BRING BACK THE EARLY 90s.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 23, 2014)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/22/working-parents-freelance-poll
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, it *is* choice.

The fact that it's *Hobson's Choice* is what doesn't get spelled out.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 28, 2014)

A pay rise for the Queen? She's worth every penny
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/27/queen-pay-rise-worth-every-penny?

All that dignity, and all that wisdom, for a penny per person per week. Whoever next gets to shake the royal hand should tell her: "Ma'am, you're cheap."


----------



## xenon (Jun 28, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> I saw one the other day with his beard, his fucking glasses, his Hitler haircut and his fixie; his t-shirt read: BRING BACK THE EARLY 90s.


I hope you done the decent thing..


----------



## xenon (Jun 28, 2014)

ska invita said:


> A pay rise for the Queen? She's worth every penny
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/27/queen-pay-rise-worth-every-penny?
> 
> All that dignity, and all that wisdom, for a penny per person per week. Whoever next gets to shake the royal hand should tell her: "Ma'am, you're cheap."


They love the Royals. Because you know otherwise it's Presedent Blair. That's the alternative, yeah.


----------



## treelover (Jun 28, 2014)

> saw one the other day with his beard, his fucking glasses, his Hitler haircut and his fixie; his t-shirt read: BRING BACK THE EARLY 90s.











Nah, the 1950's...


----------



## treelover (Jun 28, 2014)

> saw one the other day with his beard, his fucking glasses, his Hitler haircut and his fixie; his t-shirt read: BRING BACK THE EARLY 90s.








Nah, the 1950's...


----------



## Streatham_Mao (Jul 7, 2014)

Chris Huhe takes up the pen to decry the jail sentence for himself - uh, sorry, that should be "for Andy Coulson".

All those talented journalism grads and they give that tossrag a platform...

http://gu.com/p/3qyqm


----------



## Celyn (Jul 7, 2014)

I think the comments were mostly along the lines of "why employ this sodding criminal, Guardian?" and "Fuck off, Huhne", though, so that's sort of good.  Well, maybe a bit good.  Less than completely bad.  Something like that.


----------



## JTG (Jul 7, 2014)

Nylock said:


> It's not just the tents... There's gallons of booze and tons of food left behind when the crowds clear-off... At one point last year we were bringing in food and beer by the wheelbarrowload to our encampment post-event... One of the crew was pissed out of his nut sat atop a pile of Strongbow like a jakey Smaug...


The quality is poor though. Hundreds of cans of Wrongbow, Carling, Fosters etc with value beans, hoops and cereal bars. The real treasure is the stuff left by the traders but it's market staff who grab that


----------



## Streatham_Mao (Jul 7, 2014)

Celyn said:


> I think the comments were mostly along the lines of "why employ this sodding criminal, Guardian?" and "Fuck off, Huhne", though, so that's sort of good.  Well, maybe a bit good.  Less than completely bad.  Something like that.


Yup. Seen it happen with other papers, too. 

I know people say don't read the comments, but if you learn to read between the lines (or at least learn to rate people on credibility), there can be some good counters to bad journalism.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 7, 2014)

Huhne has to be the best paid troll, ever.


----------



## Celyn (Jul 7, 2014)

teqniq said:


> Huhne has to be the best paid troll, ever.


Trolling, trolling, trolling. Keep that clickbait trolling ... rawhide.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 7, 2014)

I don't think that's the case with Huhne. The papers management are in broad political agreement with him - _he's one of them_, and they think he's been wronged. They also think he's a great informed journo with some inside tracks that either he or they will be able to usefully utilise at some point.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 7, 2014)

Whether intentional or unintentional, he's still a troll.

E2A Though if as you say they feel he's been wronged etc. It just shows how in some respects ,out of touch they are.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 7, 2014)

teqniq said:


> Whether intentional or unintentional, he's still a troll.


How? The only trolling i see here is reality trolling the cosy guardian bubble. That bubble thinks it's being principled in publishing huhne rather than cynical and many people are laughing at them as a result.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 7, 2014)

see my edit


----------



## Nylock (Jul 7, 2014)

JTG said:


> The quality is poor though. Hundreds of cans of Wrongbow, Carling, Fosters etc with value beans, hoops and cereal bars. The real treasure is the stuff left by the traders but it's market staff who grab that


Yep, quality may be shite and the best stuff is available to markets but what can you do? It's free and nothing tastes better than free* 


*Except value beans, they suck regardless....


----------



## JTG (Jul 7, 2014)

Nylock said:


> Yep, quality may be shite and the best stuff is available to markets but what can you do? It's free and nothing tastes better than free*
> 
> 
> *Except value beans, they suck regardless....



For sure


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2014)

Streatham_Mao said:


> Chris Huhe takes up the pen to decry the jail sentence for himself - uh, sorry, that should be "for Andy Coulson".
> 
> All those talented journalism grads and they give that tossrag a platform...
> 
> http://gu.com/p/3qyqm



They give him a platform because he's on the same political wavelength as the likes of Wintour and Rusbridger, the Orange Book-loving fuckspuds.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I don't think that's the case with Huhne. The papers management are in broad political agreement with him - _he's one of them_, and they think he's been wronged. They also think he's a great informed journo with some inside tracks that either he or they will be able to usefully utilise at some point.



Agreed.


----------



## Streatham_Mao (Jul 7, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> They give him a platform because he's on the same political wavelength as the likes of Wintour and Rusbridger, the Orange Book-loving fuckspuds.


I know - the Guardian is incredibly snobbish.  

And they still won't give up on the libs, pissing off their readers for years now.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 10, 2014)

weepiper said:


> http://www.map-uk.org/home
> 
> If you can spare a few quid.



From the latest Gaza thread

I just tried to post this link underneath this article on the Graun's site and it was immediately removed

I actually tried posing it twice, the second time with a clear explanation that it was for a medical aid charity, this lasted a little longer but not by much.


----------



## albionism (Jul 14, 2014)

"Israeli-Soldiers...Hamas-Gunmen"
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-hamas-as-gaza-death-toll-continues-to-spiral


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2014)

> More from the guardian
> 
> Older women don't need mansplaining boner prose in praise of their sexiness 11 Jul 2014
> Tatler's flirting with creepiness, but don't be too hard on it 14 Jul 2014
> Silent, not deadly; how farts cure diseases 14 Jul 2014



This was at the bottom of an article about the DWP bringing in charges for appeals against benefit sanctions.


----------



## treelover (Jul 16, 2014)

> *A tale of two careers: Michael Gove and Iain Duncan Smith*
> Both men are passionate and sincere reformers determined to give opportunities to the poor, but only one has been demoted
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/15/tale-of-two-careers-michael-gove-iain-duncan-smith





Wintour, who I've always suspected endorses the welfare reforms blatantly bigs up Duncan Smith.

oh and Gove and Blair..


----------



## rekil (Jul 22, 2014)

MH17: five of the most bizarre conspiracy theories

Desperate bit of particularly worthless clickbait.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 23, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> I saw one the other day with his beard, his fucking glasses, his Hitler haircut and his fixie; his t-shirt read: BRING BACK THE EARLY 90s.



Don't you live somewhere in the middle of the Australian desert?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 23, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Don't you live somewhere in the middle of the Australian desert?


Some Aussie hipsters, yesterday:


----------



## Belushi (Jul 24, 2014)

A quite ludicrous piece about how even nice people have tattoos nowadays http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...wave-tattoos-prejudice-nice-people-evan-davis


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 25, 2014)

Belushi said:


> A quite ludicrous piece about how even nice people have tattoos nowadays http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...wave-tattoos-prejudice-nice-people-evan-davis


Before I even click that and earn them advertising revenue, I want to see proof that Rusbridger has had a full facial cobweb done. Because Comment is Free, but Facts are Sacred.


----------



## belboid (Jul 25, 2014)

(from Private Eye)

Number Crunching:
£1.4million - total corporation tax paid by GMG, despite £549million profit from sale of Auto Trader

£1.4million - Bonus paid to GMG Chief Executive Andrew Miller for selling Auto Trader.


Stories not covered by the Guardian:
a shareholder revolt at a certain large media company, where shareholders objected to the Chief Exec trebling their salary (inc bonus) whilst demanding pay restraint from their workers.  Shareholders were no doubt reassured tho by the fact that the Auto Trader windfall is being wisely invested - in some of those very hedge funds the paper regularly lambasts.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 25, 2014)

Belushi said:


> A quite ludicrous piece about how even nice people have tattoos nowadays http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...wave-tattoos-prejudice-nice-people-evan-davis


Curses, I just came to this thread to post that! At one level the piece is dripping with crude social prejudice, but there _might_ be an intention we should read it ironically. Trouble is it's so badly written you can't really take it that way - and the only thing that is really obvious is her tedious prejudice. As you say, ludicrous.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 25, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Before I even click that and earn them advertising revenue, I want to see proof that Rusbridger has had a full facial cobweb done. Because Comment is Free, but Facts are Sacred.


You are missing out - it links to another story that lets you know Evan Davis has a Prince Albert. I know which bit of the screen _I'll_ be looking at next time he's on Newsnight!  As it says on their electronic masthead, "The Guardian Newspaper Newspaper and website of the year | Winner of the Pulitzer prize"


----------



## belboid (Jul 25, 2014)

Wilf said:


> You are missing out - it links to another story that lets you know Evan Davis has a Prince Albert.


he used to be nicknamed Twinkle Tits becuse of his other piercings.

Well, either that or because he's a complete tit.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2014)

Belushi said:


> A quite ludicrous piece about how even nice people have tattoos nowadays http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...wave-tattoos-prejudice-nice-people-evan-davis


Nice people meaning private school oxbridge girls like Kathryn. She is the person who started off her review of the recent book by Rachael Holmes on the political life of Eleanor Marx by talking about the latters taste in men. She strikes me as someone stuck in the 1920s - a world of maids and _oh have you seen virginia's latest?_


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2014)

really didn't need to know about evan daviess's nob jewellery.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 25, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Before I even click that and earn them advertising revenue, I want to see proof that Rusbridger has had a full facial cobweb done. Because Comment is Free, but Facts are Sacred.



A full cobweb is a bit OTT, I'd settle for him having "cunt" tattoo'd on the inside of his bottom lip.


----------



## phildwyer (Jul 25, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Curses, I just came to this thread to post that! At one level the piece is dripping with crude social prejudice, but there _might_ be an intention we should read it ironically. Trouble is it's so badly written you can't really take it that way - and the only thing that is really obvious is her tedious prejudice. As you say, ludicrous.



I wouldn't say "ludicrous," it's very revealing.  Blatant class prejudice is usually a bit better disguised these days.  The best bit is how she believes that only socially marginal people had tattoos in the '70s, when in fact they were perfectly normal among the working class.  Evidently "socially marginal" and "working class" are co-terminus for some.

"Naturally it goes back to the fact that in my 1970s childhood tattoos were worn by a different kind of person. Not necessarily wicked or criminal – although that’s how they seemed to me. These sailors, lorry drivers and Hell’s Angels of the postwar world marked themselves as living outside the social norms where the rest of us quietly resided. They looked like members of a dangerous tribe that might surround the stockade in the middle of the night."

Yep, those_ lorry drivers _are well outside the social norms.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 26, 2014)

I dunno my dad is pretty far outside the social norms...


----------



## phildwyer (Jul 26, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I dunno my dad is pretty far outside the social norms...



Actually they are a rum bunch.  Perhaps she knows whereof she speaks only too well.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 26, 2014)

Peter Sutcliffe was a lorry driver wasn't he?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Peter Sutcliffe was a lorry driver wasn't he?



Yup.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 26, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> I wouldn't say "ludicrous," it's very revealing.  Blatant class prejudice is usually a bit better disguised these days.  The best bit is how she believes that only socially marginal people had tattoos in the '70s, when in fact they were perfectly normal among the working class.  Evidently "socially marginal" and "working class" are co-terminus for some.
> 
> "Naturally it goes back to the fact that in my 1970s childhood tattoos were worn by a different kind of person. Not necessarily wicked or criminal – although that’s how they seemed to me. These sailors, lorry drivers and Hell’s Angels of the postwar world marked themselves as living outside the social norms where the rest of us quietly resided. They looked like members of a dangerous tribe that might surround the stockade in the middle of the night."
> 
> Yep, those_ lorry drivers _are well outside the social norms.


Fuck me she actually said that? My Grandad had a tattoo, that was totally normal for his age and class. He was hardly living outside social norms ffs.


----------



## hipipol (Jul 26, 2014)

little_legs said:


> if you look closely, this glover character looks like the illegitemate child of michael gove


who hatched the Lizards egg?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2014)

These are the same t-shirts as philosophy football (mark perryman - frequent guardian writer). Big up the RAF, big up that poison gas being sprayed over the old ottoman empire.  20 quid to "mark the centenary of the first year of the conflict."


----------



## killer b (Aug 2, 2014)

_Hey at least it's making some money for ex-service charities!_

it's not even doing that is it? not even a fig leaf.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2014)

wtf does this drivel mean?



> One of a series of Philosophy Football's 1914 designs to mark the centenary of the first year of the conflict. T-shirts as 'Testaments of War' to remember the courage and the sacrifice, to resist the deadly causes and lethal consequences.


----------



## killer b (Aug 2, 2014)

_Come on, you've got to put something in the description. Try to make it sound a bit radical._


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2014)

killer b said:


> _Come on, you've got to put something in the description. Try to make it sound a bit radical._


make it poncy and those guardian readers will buy it


----------



## killer b (Aug 2, 2014)

_and hurry the fuck up. Lets go for a pint._


----------



## JTG (Aug 2, 2014)

Perryman's a tit


----------



## DownwardDog (Aug 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> wtf does this drivel mean?



It means we like money so give us 20 quid for this tat that a partially sighted Bangladeshi child was paid 2p to make. The colours are wrong for an RFC roundel as the blue and red are too saturated. It looks more like a post 1928 Type A roundel albeit with a 1917-8 white ring.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 3, 2014)

Trainspotter


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 3, 2014)

T-shirts as 'Testaments of War'


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 3, 2014)

The T-Shirt testament


----------



## treelover (Aug 3, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> It means we like money so give us 20 quid for this tat that a partially sighted Bangladeshi child was paid 2p to make. The colours are wrong for an RFC roundel as the blue and red are too saturated. It looks more like a post 1928 Type A roundel albeit with a 1917-8 white ring.



Not going into t-shirt design issue, but afaik Philosophy Football has the shirts made in factories with full TU rights and paying a decent wage, with their market they would be crazy not to.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> These are the same t-shirts as philosophy football (mark perryman - frequent guardian writer). Big up the RAF, big up that poison gas being sprayed over the old ottoman empire.  20 quid to "mark the centenary of the first year of the conflict."



I e-mailed them last week after seeing an ad (think it was last week's _New Statesman_ for their "commemorative" range. Not sure that I'll get an answer, though, as the sum of my text was "Are you enjoying making money off of the back of the deaths of millions of members of the working class, you cunts?".

I was a bit annoyed.

I bet ern buys one.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2014)

teqniq said:


> Trainspotter



Typical brylcreemer. They have this stuff beaten into them, along with the misplaced arrogance.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 3, 2014)

Jon Snow will never get a job from the BBC.


----------



## killer b (Aug 3, 2014)

pompous fuck.


----------



## rekil (Aug 3, 2014)

I watched The Face Reader the other day and I successfully deduced that Mr.Loyn is a privately educated Oxbridger.  Oundle School and Christ Church Oxford as it happens.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 5, 2014)

_Guardian_ goes (paid?) advertorial!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/aug/04/amir-khan-floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-fight-boxing


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 8, 2014)

This is it, this is the final reason why the Guardian can go fuck itself IMO.




			
				Observer Hack said:
			
		

> Referring to the Guardian's decision to run the advert, the Observer quoted an unidentified source "with knowledge of the Values Network's ad-buying practices" as saying:
> 
> "The Guardian may be left wing but they obviously believe in free speech and allowing their readers to hear the voice of a Nobel laureate about a very important issue."
> 
> But the Guardian's acceptance of an advert does not mean, of course, that it endorses the views and claims made within it.



Fuck. Right. Off.

Never using their website again if they publish it.


----------



## belboid (Aug 8, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> This is it, this is the final reason why the Guardian can go fuck itself IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


unsurprisingly, that article isn't open for comments.


----------



## oryx (Aug 8, 2014)

I always used to quite like Hadley Freeman until I read this piece of shite:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/dont-tell-me-what-think-about-Israel


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 8, 2014)

oryx said:


> I always used to quite like Hadley Freeman until I read this piece of shite:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/dont-tell-me-what-think-about-Israel


That link don't work for me - try this one. It's always there, just under the surface of these privately schooled oxbridge types though.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 8, 2014)

Was she educated here though? She says she's American, I did not know this before. Not that I have an awful lot of time for privately schooled Oxbridge types either....


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 8, 2014)

teqniq said:


> Was she educated here though? She says she's American, I did not know this before. Not that I have an awful lot of time for privately schooled Oxbridge types either....


She was at a UK private school then oxbridge. She's playing up her americanism.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 8, 2014)

Ah ok thanks


----------



## goldenecitrone (Aug 8, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> This is it, this is the final reason why the Guardian can go fuck itself IMO.
> 
> Fuck. Right. Off.
> 
> Never using their website again if they publish it.



Amazing. Is The Guardian really deciding to go down the Sun/Hillsborough route?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 8, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Amazing. Is The Guardian really deciding to go down the Sun/Hillsborough route?


Ah, but they don't _agree _with it. They just get _paid _to _publish _it. Which is worse really. Imagine they were paid to print the Sun's lies about Hillsborough and they said yes.


----------



## Theisticle (Aug 8, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/guardian-view-gaza-rise-antisemitism?CMP=twt_gu

I'm all for opposing anti-Semitism but this analysis is rather simplistic. For example, no mention of the far-right Jewish Defence League instigating violence in France that is causing clashes at Gaza protests. 

http://www.france24.com/en/20140729-calls-mount-ban-france-violent-jewish-defence-league/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ders-ban-on-radical-jewish-group-9640776.html

There are also major caveats to the CST's data set (as alarming as it might originally read).


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 8, 2014)

We don't endorse it, we just get paid:

*Antisemitism on rise across Europe 'in worst times since the Nazis'




*


----------



## Theisticle (Aug 11, 2014)

Bastards:

"The decision to run any display advertisement in the Guardian is made on a case-by-case basis and there was a full discussion about accepting the advert in question. However, the acceptance of advertising from any organisation does not equate to support or endorsement for the views expressed in that advert. The Guardian is fully committed to reporting from the Middle East and our coverage will continue to be independent and robust."

Same excuses. 

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/...ing-Hamas-child-sacrifice-advert#.U-ilyWO6UYK


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> Bastards:
> 
> "The decision to run any display advertisement in the Guardian is made on a case-by-case basis and there was a full discussion about accepting the advert in question. However, the acceptance of advertising from any organisation does not equate to support or endorsement for the views expressed in that advert. The Guardian is fully committed to reporting from the Middle East and our coverage will continue to be independent and robust."
> 
> ...


i think this is the point at which it's become plain that the guardian has gone down the pan


----------



## Theisticle (Aug 11, 2014)




----------



## teqniq (Aug 11, 2014)

lot of pissed off people on Twitter concerning this


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2014)

Any of their employees though? Jones? Milne (He'll probably blame it on a US conspiracy)? Penny? _That lot._


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Any of their employees though? Jones? Milne (He'll probably blame it on a US conspiracy)? Penny? _That lot._


it was probably penny's idea to accept it


----------



## teqniq (Aug 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Any of their employees though? Jones? Milne (He'll probably blame it on a US conspiracy)? Penny? _That lot._



there is this tweet



> @OwenJones84: @AsaWinstanley @deeinsidefilm @guardian @SeumasMilne I think the advert is vile and I have as much say over it as anybody else here



and this one



> @SeumasMilne: @FarooqSumar @MaxBlumenthal Thanks Farooq, ad is repulsive and inflammatory


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2014)

teqniq said:


> there is this tweet
> 
> 
> 
> and this one


Ah but Owen, whilst you may have as much say in it running as me or most others there are other things you could do/not do. For example writing a piece (about european anti-semitism ffs) that is published on the same day as this racist shit. Or never writing for them again. You know, a few principled stands like that.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2014)

This is almost as bad a crime as the racist ad they printed yesterday - could they get any more smug:



the same sort of winking _are you thinking what we're thinking_ style as the 2005 racist tory election posters and manifesto title, and with the exact same intent. Meet people like us/keep the others away - _we can do that for you._


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 12, 2014)

A friend of mine made a point that perhaps there's a deeper motive to publish the advert in that it's elicited such a huge backlash and therefore turns public opinion further against Israel.  She compared it to the BBC giving the BNP a platform on question time and the aftermath of that.  It's not a point beyond the realms of possibility I think but I also think it gives the Guardian way too much credit.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2014)

That's just crazy.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 12, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's just crazy.



Yeah I don't disagree. I try to see it from her point of view, a point of view that's shared by a lot of the public I think, in that the guardian is this left wing paper that challenges the status quo, speaks to power and so on.  A lot of people are shocked, genuinely, by the publication of this ad. I have to say I myself was a little bit surprised that the guardian would scrape the gutter in this way. As we all know on though, the guardian are nothing like how I described them.  Can't say I blame a lot of people for being shocked because this is stooping down to the level of the sun, if not lower!


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2014)

And the thing is, this ad only made them 11 grand. There's more than commercial reasoning at play here.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 12, 2014)

Yeah it stinks. Didn't the New York Times post it too?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Yeah it stinks. Didn't the New York Times post it too?


Lots of papers did i think.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 12, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Lots of papers did i think.


 Presumably, not the Mail?


----------



## Theisticle (Aug 12, 2014)

The Times rejected that advert. The Guardian's moral barometer is fucked.


----------



## co-op (Aug 12, 2014)

Theisticle said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/guardian-view-gaza-rise-antisemitism?CMP=twt_gu
> 
> I'm all for opposing anti-Semitism but this analysis is rather simplistic. For example, no mention of the far-right Jewish Defence League instigating violence in France that is causing clashes at Gaza protests.
> 
> ...



This whole "New Wave of European Anti-Semitism" thing seems well dodgy to me. The figure of a 72% increase in jews emigrating for Israel from France I have seen elsewhere in the media as somewhere in the mid-30s% but my internet is running slow and I can't be arsed to check the original. But in any event the overall figure is tiny - about 3000 - compared to about 250,000 Israeli passport holders who live in the EU. I've seen some comments about there being a "new Exodus" - if that term is right, it's basically _out_ of Israel and towards Europe. And when emigration rates to Israel are so low, many of them will be of the elderly/young relatives going to live with ageing family etc, but frankly I can't see how some at least aren't some pretty nasty politico-religious extremists who are turned on by the idea of being able to go and strut around with a machine gun in some settlement somewhere, so they ain't "fleeing" anything.

It's interesting too how the similar rise of anti-semitic activity in the USA is almost completely ignored since it doesn't fit the Hadley Freeman "Europe, your [anti-semitic] roots are showing" line - because of the generally high level of US public support for Israel. 

It seems clear to me that this anti-Israel=anti-semitic thing is the new line of defence for Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians, it's the last feasible bit of moral high ground that Israel-apologists have to play with.

But it means that anyone who wants to campaign against the Israeli war machine needs to be very careful with their language.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Any of their employees though? Jones? Milne (He'll probably blame it on a US conspiracy)? Penny? _That lot._



Apologies, just seen this now.  I can confirm from her Twitterings that Penny has said absolutely fuck-all whatsoever about the current situation in Gaza.  I mentioned elsewhere that Owen Jones spoke at the London Gaza demo last Saturday, and - surprise! - didn't mention this at all (wonder why, eh?)


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

...and, the boy Jones has just posted this comment re that Graun ad on FB:



> Owen - I've repeatedly said I think the advert is vile. Over and over again. No, I'm not going to resign - what you're asking is for radical voices to purge themselves from the mainstream media and thus stop being able to reach large numbers of people with ideas that depart from the mainstream consensus. It would be a tremendous victory for the Establishment if its critics deprived themselves of a platform - that's exactly what they'd love me to do.



I've not seen him do this condemnation anywhere in print, online etc, though - has anyone else here done so?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2014)

What sort of people do he think reads the guardian? Does he realise what he's writing for? He's hardly Pilger in his heyday in the mirror.

That is such a backslapping pathetic response. Little own battling away in the heart of the establishment -_ for us. _Just lost a big chunk of the goodwill i was prepared to extend to him there. Apply the same weasel-logic to hillsborough and what would we find?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What sort of people do he think reads the guardian? Does he realise what he's writing for? He's hardly Pilger in his heyday in the mirror.
> 
> That is such a backslapping pathetic response. Little own battling away in the heart of the establishment -_ for us. _Just lost a big chunk of the goodwill i was prepared to extend to him there. Apply the same weasel-logic to hillsborough and what would we find?



Exactly.  I mean, what else is anyone to make of his stance here?  At least with the Penny one, we expect content-free and principle-free waffling.  But for Jones to do this, and also to speak at the London Gaza demo the day after that ad was published, knowing full well what his employers had done,  is....well.....


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2014)

What would the _masses _who rely on the guardian do if Jones were to resign - the results simply don't bear thinking about. It would almost be game over. *Owen must stay! *I feel a campaign coming on.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What would the _masses _who rely on the guardian do if Jones were to resign - the results simply don't bear thinking about. It would almost be game over. *Owen must stay! *I feel a campaign coming on.



A campaign run by Penny too, no doubt (Oh God, I bet that scenario would actually happen too..."We are all Owen Jones!" etc)


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2014)

I think this may be one that PD could make all the running on as it goes. Nice little sarcastic stab in the back where everyone can see.


----------



## phildwyer (Aug 13, 2014)

co-op said:


> This whole "New Wave of European Anti-Semitism" thing seems well dodgy to me. The figure of a 72% increase in jews emigrating for Israel from France I have seen elsewhere in the media as somewhere in the mid-30s% but my internet is running slow and I can't be arsed to check the original. But in any event the overall figure is tiny - about 3000 - compared to about 250,000 Israeli passport holders who live in the EU. I've seen some comments about there being a "new Exodus" - if that term is right, it's basically _out_ of Israel and towards Europe. And when emigration rates to Israel are so low, many of them will be of the elderly/young relatives going to live with ageing family etc, but frankly I can't see how some at least aren't some pretty nasty politico-religious extremists who are turned on by the idea of being able to go and strut around with a machine gun in some settlement somewhere, so they ain't "fleeing" anything.
> 
> It's interesting too how the similar rise of anti-semitic activity in the USA is almost completely ignored since it doesn't fit the Hadley Freeman "Europe, your [anti-semitic] roots are showing" line - because of the generally high level of US public support for Israel.
> 
> ...


 
Yep.  It's playing out just as many anti-Zionist Jews said it would 60 years ago.  I've just been reading the diaries of Victor Klemperer: a Jew living under the Nazis.  He has absolutely no doubts about equating Zionism with Nazism, he makes the parallel repeatedly and vehemently.  Which considering where and who he was is really saying something.


----------



## The Pale King (Aug 13, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> Yep.  It's playing out just as many anti-Zionist Jews said it would 60 years ago.  I've just been reading the diaries of Victor Klemperer: a Jew living under the Nazis.  He has absolutely no doubts about equating Zionism with Nazism, he makes the parallel repeatedly and vehemently.  Which considering where and who he was is really saying something.



Does he discuss Zionism in the final (chronological) volume of diaries (The Lesser Evil)?


----------



## rekil (Aug 13, 2014)

.


MellySingsDoom said:


> ...and, the boy Jones has just posted this comment re that Graun ad on FB:
> 
> 
> 
> I've not seen him do this condemnation anywhere in print, online etc, though - has anyone else here done so?


Can you get a screenshot of that?


----------



## phildwyer (Aug 13, 2014)

The Pale King said:


> Does he discuss Zionism in the final (chronological) volume of diaries (The Lesser Evil)?


 
I haven't got to that one yet, just finished the first volume.

Interesting life he had, a real man of the Enlightenment, and one of the last.


----------



## rekil (Aug 13, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I think this may be one that PD could make all the running on as it goes. Nice little sarcastic stab in the back where everyone can see.


Applauding OJ's refusal to be dragged off the bridge to rock the boat while congratulating Warsi (who we can neither confirm nor deny is a deep cover PD militant) for resigning and causing quite the stir would be multitudinous positionism par excellence.


----------



## The Pale King (Aug 13, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> I haven't got to that one yet, just finished the first volume.
> 
> Interesting life he had, a real man of the Enlightenment, and one of the last.



Cheers, I'll seek them out


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

copliker said:


> .
> 
> Can you get a screenshot of that?



I'll see what I can do, and if I can, will post the shot here - hope that's OK


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

copliker (also butchersapron)  - I think this should do it?:


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 13, 2014)

Establishment and radicals unite to demand Owen Jones purges himself from the mainstream media.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2014)

Ideally we have the establishment demanding he purge himself  and radicals that we rely on him so he must stay.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2014)

Or, better put, the establishment demand that he act on his principles and the trials that he refuses to.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 13, 2014)

He could write his articles in the Guardian for free, thus being able to get his message out there, whilst making some form of protest. After all, if his only motive for working for them is political and making sure his radical voice is heard, he won't care a jot about the money.

He could either refuse his fee or pass on the cash to a relevant Gaza charity. 

It's a perfect solution I'm sure he can't wait to endorse.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

...and here's the boy Jones in "Guardian ad?  What Guardian ad?" mode at the London Gaza demo*:



*I ran out of bloody water at this point of the speeches 

e2a:  I wasn't wrong about him using his phone for his speech!


----------



## killer b (Aug 13, 2014)

what's wrong with reading notes from your phone? seems an odd thing to be laying into him about...


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

killer b said:


> what's wrong with reading notes from your phone? seems an odd thing to be laying into him about...



I covered this up-thread, as it goes, following Fozzie making the same point as yourself.

e2a:  Whoops, apols killer b, it was in another thread I covered this on: Urban v's the Commentariat


----------



## killer b (Aug 13, 2014)

Speaking without notes is all very dramatic and everything, but its bizarre to demand it from everyone. Criticise what he says, his right to be there, whatever - but for speaking with notes? Nah.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Aug 13, 2014)

Owen can save the without notes stuff until he's leader of the Labour party.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 13, 2014)

killer b said:


> Speaking without notes is all very dramatic and everything, but its bizarre to demand it from everyone. Criticise what he says, his right to be there, whatever - but for speaking with notes? Nah.



Have liked yr post - not out of winding you up etc - but, well, you and Fozzie B make a fair point, and it would be churlish of me not to acknowledge it!


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Owen can save the without notes stuff until he's leader of the Labour party.




I see his trajectory as more of that of the Toynbee kind, no safeseat for the check shirted one


----------



## phildwyer (Aug 13, 2014)

killer b said:


> what's wrong with reading notes from your phone? seems an odd thing to be laying into him about...


 
Afford a phone, can he?  Alright for some innit.

I'm sure a few hundred Gazan infants could eat for a month for the price of his so-called "phone."

If he had a single shred of decency he'd auction it on e-bay and send the proceeds to me so I can donate them to Hamas.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 13, 2014)

Favelado said:


> He could write his articles in the Guardian for free, thus being able to get his message out there, whilst making some form of protest. After all, if his only motive for working for them is political and making sure his radical voice is heard, he won't care a jot about the money.
> 
> He could either refuse his fee or pass on the cash to a relevant Gaza charity.
> 
> It's a perfect solution I'm sure he can't wait to endorse.


Yes the Guardian should benefit from his free labour


----------



## phildwyer (Aug 13, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Yes the Guardian should benefit from his free labour


 
If he had an ounce of compassion in him, he'd already have collected up all the back issues with his column in them, pulped them up with glue in a huge bucket, reformed them into a tree shape, painted it brown, stuck some branches and leaves on, sold it to the highest bidder as a work of art and donated the fee to Islamic State.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 13, 2014)

_At Inspiration Point, Artie starts pawing Marge, and she slaps him when he tears her dress. Marge asks to be driven home. Homer walks home. Marge sees Homer walking along the road as she is driven home._

* Artie: *Marge, I would appreciate it if you didn't tell anyone about my busy hands.

Not so much for myself, but I am so respected, it would damage the TOWN to hear it.

Good night.
*
Marge: *Yeah, right.


----------



## phildwyer (Aug 13, 2014)

Favelado said:


> He could write his articles in the Guardian for free


 
Also, he could pimp his granny out to Dave Lee Travis and use the cash to buy a teddy bear for Edward Snowden.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 13, 2014)

Fine. I've got other brilliant ideas.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> Yep.  It's playing out just as many anti-Zionist Jews said it would 60 years ago.  I've just been reading the diaries of Victor Klemperer: a Jew living under the Nazis.  He has absolutely no doubts about equating Zionism with Nazism, he makes the parallel repeatedly and vehemently.  Which considering where and who he was is really saying something.




I've got a war diary anthology (secret annexe) that has loads of entries from him. The two entries that really angered me were his sadness at not being allowed to sleep in the same room and his wife, and the one where he details how many pfennigs he had to pay for his yellow star. They made them buy the damn stars.


----------



## phildwyer (Aug 13, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got a war diary anthology (secret annexe) that has loads of entries from him. The two entries that really angered me were his sadness at not being allowed to sleep in the same room and his wife, and the one where he details how many pfennigs he had to pay for his yellow star. They made them buy the damn stars.


 
Wait till he has to have his cat put down.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 13, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> If he had an ounce of compassion in him, he'd already have collected up all the back issues with his column in them, pulped them up with glue in a huge bucket, reformed them into a tree shape, painted it brown, stuck some branches and leaves on, sold it to the highest bidder as a work of art and donated the fee to Islamic State.



An olive tree?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 14, 2014)

MellySingsDoom said:


> A campaign run by Penny too, no doubt (Oh God, I bet that scenario would actually happen too..."We are all Owen Jones!" etc)



Or worse, "Owen Jones, I am in you".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 14, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What would the _masses _who rely on the guardian do if Jones were to resign - the results simply don't bear thinking about. It would almost be game over. *Owen must stay! *I feel a campaign coming on.



I'm not sure their paper readership could be construed as any kind of "mass", frankly, however Rusbridger spins things.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 14, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm not sure their paper readership could be construed as any kind of "mass", frankly, however Rusbridger spins things.


It was an autocorrect error he meant muesli


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 14, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> It was an autocorrect error he meant muesli


Perhaps in today's cross-platform multimedia paradigm he meant ‘it shouldn't Alpen to a VT’?


----------



## Favelado (Aug 19, 2014)

Oxbridge-educated Tory MP thinks plebs who turn up the doctors in their jim-jams are a worry. Also, we need to start charging people. Horrible.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/18/save-nhs-charge-abuse


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 19, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Oxbridge-educated Tory MP thinks plebs who turn up the doctors in their jim-jams are a worry. Also, we need to start charging people. Horrible.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/18/save-nhs-charge-abuse



Crap article.  The assumptions are so thick in it, that it's constructed mostly on prejudice about working-class people - Those of the journo and the politician.  My surgery (whose cachement is about 70% council estate, 30% young middle-class) has a very low rate of appt missing, purely because they make clear that it's fine if you phone up and cancel an appt, but if you don't, and have a history of missed appts, they suggest you use the "phone on the day" appointments instead.  Most surgeries have systems in place to discourage appointment-skipping.  Some will even take you off the books.  I'm betting the journo didn't contact the RCGP or the BMA before writing this facilitatory _dreck_.


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 19, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Oxbridge-educated Tory MP thinks plebs who turn up the doctors in their jim-jams are a worry. Also, we need to start charging people. Horrible.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/18/save-nhs-charge-abuse


Says a Tory who more than likely uses private healthcare and who also failed to declare money she had received from a developer in her constituency.



> Bristol North West Tory MP Charlotte Leslie has offered her "heartfelt apologies" for failing to declare cash donations in a register of MPs' interests.
> 
> Ms Leslie told the Commons she took full responsibility for not submitting the details “in a timely manner” despite seeking to have extra administrative support as a result of being registered dyslexic.
> http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristo...ises-failing/story-20929348-detail/story.html



Dyslexic, eh? That's not what I'd call her. Dishonest is nearer to the mark.


> She added she had not personally financially benefited.



Sure you didn't. 

The Bristol Post also claims that she will face a Commons investigation. No idea if the investigation has been carried out or what the results were.
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristo...nvestigation/story-21086999-detail/story.html

It seems she also fancies herself as a cast member of the long defunct _Baywatch_.






Here's her Search the Money entry.
http://searchthemoney.com/profile/365


----------



## Frances Lengel (Aug 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Crap article.  The assumptions are so thick in it, that it's constructed mostly on prejudice about working-class people - Those of the journo and the politician.  My surgery (whose cachement is about 70% council estate, 30% young middle-class) has a very low rate of appt missing, purely because they make clear that it's fine if you phone up and cancel an appt, but if you don't, and have a history of missed appts, they suggest you use the "phone on the day" appointments instead.  Most surgeries have systems in place to discourage appointment-skipping.  Some will even take you off the books.  I'm betting the journo didn't contact the RCGP or the BMA before writing this facilitatory _dreck_.



Plus, I reckon the bit eulogising the stoical post war generation could well be bullshit as well. I remember my grandad going on about the NHS being introduced and, according to him, people were taking the piss left right & centre - Getting eight sets of false teeth just coz they could etc. He was still fuming about it forty odd years later.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 19, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Plus, I reckon the bit eulogising the stoical post war generation could well be bullshit as well. I remember my grandad going on about the NHS being introduced and, according to him, people were taking the piss left right & centre - Getting eight sets of false teeth just coz they could etc. He was still fuming about it forty odd years later.



Yup. Heard much the same from my grandparents - people who didn't need glasses going to get their eyes tested, just for the novelty of it and such - but apparently that sort of behaviour burnt out quickly, once people realised that the NHS wasn't going to be taken away from them.


----------



## Theisticle (Aug 19, 2014)

Reader's editor on the racist Palestinian blood libel advert:

"I think the Guardian should have rejected the language of the advertisement and attempted to negotiate change with the authors, something they indicated to the Times that they might consider.

I agree with the readers that whatever the intention, the biblical language, the references to child sacrifice, all evoke images of that most ancient of antisemitic tropes: the blood libel. The authors may believe that they have steered a careful course by aiming these matters at an organisation, Hamas, rather than all Palestinians, but the association is there. If an advertisement was couched in similar terms but the organisation named was the IDF rather than Hamas, I can’t imagine the Guardian would run it – I certainly hope it wouldn’t. I think that’s the issue."
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


----------



## Theisticle (Aug 19, 2014)

Oh yeah, and fuck you, Alan Rusbridger:

After discussing the advertisement with some senior editors, Alan Rusbridger, the Guardian’s editor-in-chief, said that while it was very difficult, on balance he decided that it should run for the following reasons:

• Advertisers ought to be able to pay to place material in newspapers which the newspapers themselves disagree with or even deplore.

• He believed there was a strong argument in terms of freedom of speech “which is doubtless why the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, New York Observer and Washington Post all printed it”.

• It’s in the name of Elie Wiesel, a Nobel laureate and considerable public figure.

• The claim that Hamas has been using women and children as human shields - thereby “sacrificing” them - has been made repeatedly on the Israeli side of the conflict.

• The advertisement was judged to be within the ASA guidelines.

He also said that the Guardian had traditionally always believed in giving people a voice in circumstances where other newspapers “would run a mile”.

“I think most Guardian readers expect that from us and appreciate it. We don’t agree with it [the advertisement], and don’t endorse it - like much of the advertising in the paper,” he said.

“JS Mill said the best response to bad argument was good argument. It was useful to see how a hugely respected figure, Elie Wiesel, allows his name to be used in such advertising. But I am saddened that, for some readers, it appears that the amazing, brave reporting by Guardian journalists, staffers and stringers in Gaza, to get the suffering and news out of there, at risk to their own lives, counts for less than one advertisement - of the sort that allows us to do such reporting. So it’s a shame that the controversy over the advertisement eclipsed the unflinching work that the Guardian has done in being the world’s eyes and ears, including going to the hospitals where the injured and dead children were being taken.”


----------



## teqniq (Aug 19, 2014)

Fine words Mr. Rusbridger. Sadly I find it far more likely that it is all about the money.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 19, 2014)

Alan Rusbridger said:
			
		

> After discussing the advertisement with some senior editors, Alan Rusbridger, the Guardian’s editor-in-chief, said that while it was very difficult, on balance he decided that it should run for the following reasons:
> 
> • Advertisers ought to be able to pay to place material in newspapers which the newspapers themselves disagree with or even deplore.
> 
> ...



What a dick


----------



## DairyQueen (Aug 19, 2014)

Why is that 


nino_savatte said:


> Says a Tory who more than likely uses private healthcare and who also failed to declare money she had received from a developer in her constituency.



Why does the Guardian give column space to Tories to spout their NHS privatisation agenda?


----------



## teqniq (Aug 19, 2014)

DairyQueen Why indeed? Tbh though, the Graun has imo been responsible for stories with negative spin in relation to the NHS or even completely failing to report pro-NHS/anti-cuts demos like the one that happened in London earlier this year. I had to come here for pix and info on that. From this I feel it is not so hard to see where their interests lie.


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 19, 2014)

DairyQueen said:


> Why is that
> 
> 
> Why does the Guardian give column space to Tories to spout their NHS privatisation agenda?


Because it's going dahn the shitter.


----------



## DairyQueen (Aug 19, 2014)

teqniq said:


> DairyQueen Why indeed? Tbh though, the Graun has imo been responsible for stories with negative spin in relation to the NHS or even completely failing to report pro-NHS/anti-cuts demos like the one that happened in London earlier this year. I had to come here for pix and info on that. From this I feel it is not so hard to see where their interests lie.



The Guardian has turned into a place for 'fashionable' academics.  The ostensibly left-wing  ones who stand up, claim they have a cure for poverty which, for some reason or other, involves privatising railways.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 20, 2014)

MellySingsDoom said:


> ...and here's the boy Jones in "Guardian ad?  What Guardian ad?" mode at the London Gaza demo*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He was bragging about being hungover for this


----------



## J Ed (Aug 20, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/19/ferguson-outsiders-protesters-riots-peaceful-unrest



> Volatile mix of interlopers, including anarchists, religious groups and ‘insurgents’, have sometimes turned peaceful protests into violent riots
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 20, 2014)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/19/ferguson-outsiders-protesters-riots-peaceful-unrest



That's Rory Carroll who flew 1588 miles from LA to Ferguson to moan about outside agitators turning up in Ferguson. Outside agitators of course means non-liberals who give a a shit about what's happening in society. What he's actually doing here is joining in with classic red-baiting that's all over the place in US media right now - and the main target is joey johnson, the Commie who got the laws against flag-burning rescinded in 48 states back in the 80s.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 20, 2014)

$50 a day and a free packed lunch!


----------



## rekil (Aug 20, 2014)

If the protests were about say a pretty white girl being murdered by a chavista brute somewhere in Venezuela, I dare say Mr.Carroll's report would have a somewhat different tone.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 20, 2014)

copliker said:


> If the protests were about say a pretty white girl being murdered by a chavista brute somewhere in Venezuela, I dare say Mr.Carroll's report would have a somewhat different tone.


That's right, he turned up to do some outsider agitating during the _stuff_ last year didn't he. That time he flew 3620 miles from LA to Caracas to do his outside agitation.


----------



## rekil (Aug 20, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's right, he turned up to do some outsider agitating during the _stuff_ last year didn't he. That time he flew 3620 miles from LA to Caracas to do his outside agitation.


This one. "Defiant middle class" subheading. I don't think he bothered leaving LA for it. Is it true he's married to a Venezuelan media oligarch?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 20, 2014)

copliker said:


> This one. "Defiant middle class" subheading. I don't think he bothered leaving LA for it. Is it true he's married to a Venezuelan media oligarch?


He was def there in march last year. Maybe he got chased out for shit like this.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 20, 2014)

DairyQueen said:


> Why is that
> 
> 
> Why does the Guardian give column space to Tories to spout their NHS privatisation agenda?



Because by every gauge that matters, the Guardian surrendered to neoliberalism at around the same time that the Labour Party did. Expecting them not to at least attempt to "explain" shit such as NHS privitisation is like expecting Polly Toynbee not to be patronising.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 20, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because by every gauge that matters, the Guardian surrendered to neoliberalism at around the same time that the Labour Party did. Expecting them not to at least attempt to "explain" shit such as NHS privitisation is like expecting Polly Toynbee not to be patronising.


When did this surrender happen and what political view did they subscribe to before?


----------



## Favelado (Aug 21, 2014)

From the newspaper that tells you "how to wear" clothes. The fact that no-one thought that might sound a bit patronising at the Guardian tells you much about the mindset of the average cunt they have writing for them.

Today's article is telling us about the comeback of the cravate, which isn't a comeback at all for 99% of people. Who wore them in the first place? A handful of very posh cunts.



> Earlier in the summer, I attended the Henley regatta, to which I wore one of my grandfather’s cravats (he loved them and they made him look slightly like Alan Whicker). Whilst everyone was sweltering in button and tie, my neck was cool as a cucumber, I passed all of Henley’s sartorial rules and got stopped twice for compliments.



Risible shit.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/20/gentlemen-cravat-back-nicholas-parsons


----------



## Belushi (Aug 21, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Today's article is telling us about the comeback of the cravate, which isn't a comeback at all for 99% of people. Who wore them in the first place? A handful of very posh cunts.


 
discokermit


----------



## Combustible (Aug 21, 2014)

Favelado said:


> From the newspaper that tells you "how to wear" clothes. The fact that no-one thought that might sound a bit patronising at the Guardian tells you much about the mindset of the average cunt they have writing for them.



Especially as this particular cunt is the son of ex-Tory MP Derek Conway and was 'employed' by his father using taxpayers money, yet there was no evidence he actually did any work.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 21, 2014)

Combustible said:


> Especially as this particular cunt is the son of ex-Tory MP Derek Conway and was 'employed' by his father using taxpayers money, yet there was no evidence he actually did any work.





> Henry Conway is an English socialite and fashion journalist.



Can someone fetch some ropes and a can of petrol?


----------



## Combustible (Aug 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Can someone fetch some ropes and a can of petrol?



Well by the looks of it he already conveniently has something tied around his neck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Can someone fetch some ropes and a can of petrol?


i had you down as a necklace man. i see i was wrong.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 21, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> When did this surrender happen and what political view did they subscribe to before?



Surrender = early '90s.
Prior view = weak Fabian socialism.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> i had you down as a necklace man. i see i was wrong.


I feel like I've let the whole school down


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> I feel like I've let the whole school down


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 21, 2014)

J Ed said:


> He was bragging about being hungover for this



You're joking, right?

Oh, you're not.

FFS!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> $50 a day and a free packed lunch!


still waiting for my j18 one  i bet it's all gone off by now  and the money's probably in auld notes


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> still waiting for my j18 one  i bet it's all gone off by now  and the money's probably in auld notes


I spent all mine on samurai swords and darts to throw at horses.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> I spent all mine on samurai swords and darts to throw at horses.


at least you got it


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2014)

I reckon comrade Hill should have tried the Guardian first:



> Jesus is not the only messiah figure to have been born around the winter solstice - Joseph Stalin’s birthday, too, falls in that slot. Comrade Hill - clearly something of an old-schooler - wanted to take out a half-page advert in the Star in Koba’s honour. Comrade Bagley spiked it.



_After discussing the advertisement with some senior editors, Alan Rusbridger, the Guardian’s editor-in-chief, said that while it was very difficult, on balance he decided that it should run for the following reasons:

• Advertisers ought to be able to pay to place material in newspapers which the newspapers themselves disagree with or even deplore.

• He believed there was a strong argument in terms of freedom of speech “which is doubtless why the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, New York Observer and Washington Post all printed it”._

_• The advertisement was judged to be within the ASA guidelines.

He also said that the Guardian had traditionally always believed in giving people a voice in circumstances where other newspapers “would run a mile”.

“I think most Guardian readers expect that from us and appreciate it. We don’t agree with it [the advertisement], and don’t endorse it - like much of the advertising in the paper,” he said.
_


----------



## J Ed (Aug 28, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/25/beyonce-flawless-feminist-vmas



> Beyoncé, in the midst of an epic 15 minute medley at Sunday night’s MTV Video Music awards, performed her song “Flawless” in front of a giant screen blazoned with the word “FEMINIST”. And, as in her music video, the superstar sampled author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s speech on feminism and expectations for girls.
> 
> The zeitgeist is irrefutably feminist: its name literally in bright lights.
> 
> As feminism’s star has ascended, so has the number of celebrities willing to lend their name to the movement. Feminism is no longer “the f-word”, it’s the realm of cool kids: Beyoncé, Lena Dunham, Amy Poehler, Kerry Washington and Joseph Gordon-Levitt all call themselves feminists. And just this week, after years of equivocating,Taylor Swift came out as a feminist.



Being a 1% millionaire is a little bit feminism, why do these liberal dickheads confuse vague platitudes and lifestyle advertising with principles?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2014)

because for them thats all it is


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 28, 2014)

Get the message: _feminism/whatever is for the cool kids. Be cool. Don't be a loner. Don't be bullied. Don't be weird. Don't be different._

What sort of message is this?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Get the message: _feminism/whatever is for the cool kids. Be cool. Don't be a loner. Don't be bullied. Don't be weird. Don't be different._
> 
> What sort of message is this?



This sort:


----------



## brogdale (Aug 30, 2014)

*Downshifting from Ocado to Lidl to try and save money ... but at what price?*

The horror! The horror!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 1, 2014)

phildwyer said:


> Yep.  It's playing out just as many anti-Zionist Jews said it would 60 years ago.  I've just been reading the diaries of Victor Klemperer: a Jew living under the Nazis.  He has absolutely no doubts about equating Zionism with Nazism, he makes the parallel repeatedly and vehemently.  Which considering where and who he was is really saying something.



Thanks for reminding me about Klemperer's diaries. I've been meaning to read them, but they've never quite made the "to read" pile until now.


----------



## phildwyer (Sep 1, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Thanks for reminding me about Klemperer's diaries. I've been meaning to read them, but they've never quite made the "to read" pile until now.



Definitely worth a read.  His hatred of Zionism surprised me, but he's being scrupulously consistent, and says they're racists just like the Nazis.  And although he was certainly no Communist, indeed an impeccable liberal in every way, he spent fifteen years as an MP in East Germany.  A contradictory time he lived in.


----------



## phildwyer (Sep 1, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Get the message: _feminism/whatever is for the cool kids. Be cool. Don't be a loner. Don't be bullied. Don't be weird. Don't be different._
> 
> What sort of message is this?



My creed in a nutshell.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2014)

_Bring backs the means test (for the poor, not for me)!_ demands privately educated and oxbridge guardian liberal. _It's for their own good, that's why i'm saying it. It's concern for the poor._


----------



## The Pale King (Sep 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> _Bring backs the means test (for the poor, not for me)!_ demands privately educated and oxbridge guardian liberal. _It's for their own good, that's why i'm saying it. It's concern for the poor._


 
Yep. Some nice stuff here:

"In 2010, at the first Conservative conference after the coalition’s election “victory”, I was on a panel with Alison Garnham, head of the Child Poverty Action Group, Anand Shukla, then head of the Daycare trust, and Charlotte Vere, once a Conservative candidate, then about to become the head of the Girls’ Schools Association. It stuck in my mind because nobody turned up; the title was something about child poverty, and it clashed with something about Europe, and genuinely, as God and three well-respected charity heads are my witness, not one single Conservative showed (there were a couple of people there from other charities)."

Shows you where she's coming from at least.

"And yet I’m coming to realise the sad undertow of this story, which is that things have become so bad I wouldn’t make a defence for any universal benefit at the moment. The solidarity argument of universalism used to be heartwarming. But now all it does is emphasise the erosion of security at the bottom, the erosion of the social promise that nobody has to starve and everybody deserves a roof over their head – and how fast and brutal it has been."

This is how liberals will destroy the welfare state - not in anger but in sorrow.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2014)

Fantastic last line there.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> _Bring backs the means test (for the poor, not for me)!_ demands privately educated and oxbridge guardian liberal. _It's for their own good, that's why i'm saying it. It's concern for the poor._



More patrician nonsense.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 2, 2014)

The Pale King said:


> Yep. Some nice stuff here:
> 
> "In 2010, at the first Conservative conference after the coalition’s election “victory”, I was on a panel with Alison Garnham, head of the Child Poverty Action Group, Anand Shukla, then head of the Daycare trust, and Charlotte Vere, once a Conservative candidate, then about to become the head of the Girls’ Schools Association. It stuck in my mind because nobody turned up; the title was something about child poverty, and it clashed with something about Europe, and genuinely, as God and three well-respected charity heads are my witness, not one single Conservative showed (there were a couple of people there from other charities)."
> 
> ...



And all because she can't be arsed to philosophically separate the idea of universal school meals from universal benefits in general.  What galls is that if you're financially-comfortable, you don't tend to see the principle of universality in quite the same way those of us who aren't financially-comfortable do.  As for means-testing, I doubt she's ever been through the humiliation of having to open up her private life to scrutiny merely to qualify for an insufficient amount of "dole", let alone been through it multiple times.


----------



## Belushi (Sep 4, 2014)

Our Owen asks facebook to give him good reviews..



> Ok everyone - this is an embarrassing plea for your help. When left-wing journalist Laurie Penny's book came out, right-wing trolls bombarded her Amazon review page with one star reviews. I knew they were going to do the same with me, and so they have (see the attached pic). I can't emphasise how much this crew are obsessed with me, and it's flattering that they're rattled. As I've said to people over and over, please do not buy the book from Amazon if you can. But the websit...e is a key reference point - before people buy books they check the review on the website. As you can see, no-one in these reviews has read the book - it's just an attempt by my obsessive hard right wing trolls to trash it. So as I say - as much as I hate to do it - this is a plea for readers' help! And for those who haven't got it - buy it from a local tax-paying bookshop!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Our Owen asks facebook to give him good reviews..


but he'll only find more harsh reviews, from people who have read the book too


----------



## J Ed (Sep 5, 2014)

Guardian gives a guide on how to complain in restaurants, the article is much better than I thought it would be but it's still pretty awful



> Ask to speak to the manager
> 
> Not because you are a pompous berk who always demands to speak to "whoever is in charge", but because 73.4% of all problems in restaurants originate in poor organisation, training or recruitment. The waiting staff are often innocent victims in the crossfire.



So whine to the worker on £7 an hour instead of £6.50 (assuming that they aren't on apprentice wages in the first place)



> Put yourself in their shoes
> 
> With waiting staff, learn to differentiate between genuine rudeness or laziness, and their being, as it is colloquially known in the trade, "in the shit". Booking systems crash; restaurants get a sudden rush of walk-ins; staff walk out mid-shift. Look around you. Are you waiting for your drinks because the staff are chatting by the till or are they dashing around because they are evidently understaffed? Picking on people who are clearly having a hard time of it is tantamount to bullying. See also accidentally spilled drinks etc, even if you end up spattered. If the staff apologise, why rant? Haven't you ever dropped anything?



If the staff in a restaurant _are_ chatting what fucking business is it of yours anyway? I bet whoever wrote the article gets to chat to colleagues at work all the time.


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2014)

J Ed said:


> So whine to the worker on £7 an hour .


You think managers are workers?  Who only get £7 an hour?  Really?


----------



## weepiper (Sep 5, 2014)

belboid said:


> You think managers are workers?  Who only get £7 an hour?  Really?


junior managers in retail/service industry do.


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2014)

weepiper said:


> junior managers in retail/service industry do.


I bet they do in McDonald's. But that won't be where guardian writers go to eat.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 5, 2014)

belboid said:


> You think managers are workers?  Who only get £7 an hour?  Really?



I think that in a lot of restaurants people with the title 'manager' who deal with customer complaints earn £7 an hour, yes.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 5, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I think that in a lot of restaurants people with the title 'manager' who deal with customer complaints earn £7 an hour, yes.



Without any shadow of a doubt true for people whose title is "supervisor".


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I think that in a lot of restaurants people with the title 'manager' who deal with customer complaints earn £7 an hour, yes.


they are very clearly not the restaurants referred to in that article tho. It's even in the bit you quote


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 5, 2014)

belboid said:


> I bet they do in McDonald's. But that won't be where guardian writers go to eat.



I earned a similar tiny amount more than the regular staff managing a french bistro.  My 'perk' was that I could rely on a certain amount of hours a week.  Really.

My other 'perk' was eating his cupboards clean and drinking his cellar dry whenever he was out of the building.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Sep 5, 2014)

London flats 'worse than prison cells' condemned by council



Spoiler: how small is the flat?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 5, 2014)

belboid said:


> You think managers are workers?  Who only get £7 an hour?  Really?


If you don't know there's loads of managers in that situation in service retail and cleaning industries you live in a fantasy world


----------



## NoXion (Sep 5, 2014)

ferrelhadley said:


> London flats 'worse than prison cells' condemned by council
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: how small is the flat?



£255 a week for that? Get to fuck! 

I'm not sure how this is an example of the Guardian going down the pan. Landlords and letting agents shouldn't be getting away with this kind of shit!


----------



## ferrelhadley (Sep 5, 2014)

NoXion said:


> I'm not sure how this is an example of the Guardian going down the pan.


The graphic with the cat. I put it in the spoiler tag.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 5, 2014)

A visual joke based on a hackneyed phrase? I think you're scraping the barrel here.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Sep 5, 2014)

NoXion said:


> A visual joke based on a hackneyed phrase? I think you're scraping the barrel here.


 a popular view


----------



## NoXion (Sep 5, 2014)

Call me weird, but that kind of stuff seems rather petty when compared to articles which, say, uncritically extol the supposed virtues of neoliberalism. Or that fucking ridiculous anti-Hamas advert with Elie Wiesel.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 6, 2014)

I agree I thought it was a good article


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2014)

fractionMan said:


> I earned a similar tiny amount more than the regular staff managing a french bistro.  My 'perk' was that I could rely on a certain amount of hours a week.  Really.
> 
> My other 'perk' was eating his cupboards clean and drinking his cellar dry whenever he was out of the building.


fair do's, but if you are the person responsible for 'organisation, training or recruitment' then you are the person to complain to. Which was the (fairly obvious) point in the Guardian article.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> If you don't know there's loads of managers in that situation in service retail and cleaning industries you live in a fantasy world


ffs.  For the third time....if you dont know that those places are hardly likely to be the ones the Guardian is referring to, then you're fucking deluded.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 7, 2014)

NoXion said:


> Call me weird, but that kind of stuff seems rather petty when compared to articles which, say, uncritically extol the supposed virtues of neoliberalism. Or that fucking ridiculous anti-Hamas advert with Elie Wiesel.


Wasn't just "anti-HAMAS" either, really. It shaded (imho) into outright anti-Islam.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 7, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Wasn't just "anti-HAMAS" either, really. It shaded (imho) into outright anti-Islam.



Well in either case it was totally disgraceful and illegitimate. "Child sacrifice", for fuck's sake!


----------



## killer b (Sep 7, 2014)

belboid said:


> ffs.  For the third time....if you dont know that those places are hardly likely to be the ones the Guardian is referring to, then you're fucking deluded.


It's just a general article about complaining in restaurants isn't it? (and tbh, even in relatively expensive places the staff - and the supervisors - are on peanuts IME)


----------



## brogdale (Sep 8, 2014)

This could have gone in a number of threads...but this seems most appropriate...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/poll/2014/sep/08/new-royal-baby-save-union-scotland



> Will New royal baby save the union?




Worse than crap poll thread on here ffs


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Sep 8, 2014)

It raises a fair point. Can the Scottish people, in good conscience, vote to limit the size of the state that this little darling might one day inherit? Think of his/her sad face when Wills breaks the news


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 8, 2014)

*Poutine: the posh chips and gravy taking over the world*
_The thick pile of chips, gravy and cheese curd from Canada is proving a big hit in London as the perfect hangover cure – so is it time to bid farewell to the doner kebab?_

...In the States, poutine is being made over, with fancy adornments and increasingly inventive twists on the curd and gravy topping. Littlefork in Hollywood, LA has “duck confit, gravy, cheddar mornay and fried rosemary” poutine, while The Gorbals in Williamsburg, NYC, is offering “banh mi poutine” with “thrice-cooked fries, hoisin gravy”.

...Glasgow’s Bread Meets Bread features a sweet poutine and a “Glaspoutine: with extra Scottish cheddar cheese. Hawksmoor in Spitalfields has had a posh (and not very tasty) pig’s head poutine on its bar menu for a while now, Gordon Ramsay flirted with one at Foxtrot Oscar a while back. But two serious contenders have appeared in London in the last 12 months. The Poutinerie stall, which lives on Brick Lane, has been open for almost a year, while poutine-centric pop-up Stacks took up residency in the Dalston bar Birthdays in July, on Canada Day...​
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...he-posh-chips-and-gravy-taking-over-the-world


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 8, 2014)

It's big in Ukraine, apparently.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 8, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> It's big in Ukraine, apparently.


----------



## treelover (Sep 8, 2014)

> *Moving beyond left and right could save the public sector*
> In a landscape of outsourcing, social enterprises can counter the culture that has hollowed out our services
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ve-public-sector-enterprises-private-services



Is Zoe Williams doing a John Harris?, the above usually means a shift to the right is underway


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2014)

since when was a doner a hangover cure? Nobody eats them sober.


----------



## Flavour (Sep 8, 2014)

charlie brooker today also admitting to selfish pro-union leanings. wanker.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> since when was a doner a hangover cure? Nobody eats them sober.



Speak for yourself, hater.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2014)

Flavour said:


> charlie brooker today also admitting to selfish pro-union leanings. wanker.


Oh no! Worlds shattered!


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Oh no! Worlds shattered!



Is the Guardian basically the '80s _NME, _just not in a good way?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Is the Guardian basically the '80s _NME, _just not in a good way?


That's just a terrible terrible comparison. One a paper stuffed full of great writers from varied backgrounds who loved the stuff they were writing abou. One full of journalists from a very narrow background with little expertise in the stuff they write about. The only crossover i can see is in the opinion is king idea. And the latter was never supposed to be based on that.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's just a terrible terrible comparison.


I think it's rather apt.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> I think it's rather apt.


Yes, because you made the comparison. I've added to the bit you're replying to btw


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's just a terrible terrible comparison. One a paper stuffed full of great writers from varied backgrounds who loved the stuff they were writing abou. One full of journalists from a very narrow background with little expertise in the stuff they write about. The only crossover i can see is in the opinion is king idea. And the latter was never supposed to be based on that.



Isn't that just something we tell ourselves, on the cold nights when we can't sleep?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Isn't that just something we tell ourselves, on the cold nights when we can't sleep?


Nope -  full of talent. Some things are good. Not everything is untrue or a lie. I suspect not many people have psychological reliance on the nme having good writers interested in music and film being true.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Nope -  full of talent. Some things are good. Not everything is untrue or a lie. I suspect not many people have psychological reliance on the nme having good writers interested in music and film being true.



Steven Wells, maybe, but the rest were just queasy undergraduates squeezing their pimples.


----------



## futurereal (Sep 9, 2014)

This was a pretty awful article in CiF:

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...and-love-bombing-scotland-no-vote-westminster

This was particularly stupid:



> “Dear Scotland. Sorry we decimated your industry. We will make it up to you with a mini-break of your choosing. Love England.” That kind of thing?



I'd love to know how you blame the decimation of Scottish industry on "England" considering England and Wales went through the same painful process in the 1980's. I suppose the Miners strike must have passed Suzanne Moore by? The destruction of the Steel industry?
And where was Ian McGregor from? 

Surely a better target is the Neo-liberal ideology of the Tories? The lack of planning on the part of the UK government to replace the Steel/coal/shipbuilding industries with training and new industries? 

The Guardian seems to fill CiF with click-bait.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Steven Wells, maybe, but the rest were just queasy undergraduates squeezing their pimples.


Quantick, Maconie, even collins, dalton and the lessers, all loving music, all pumping out good...er...copy. Melody maker is where your careerists -_ just doing journalism_ -  went. The ellens, the morans,the harris'. All three of them ending up being guardian regulars in fact.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

Instead of a double post, here's Fela Kuti


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Quantick, Maconie, even collins, dalton and the lessers, all loving music, all pumping out good...er...copy. Melody maker is where your careerists -_ just doing journalism_ -  went. The ellens, the morans,the harris'. All three of them ending up being guardian regulars in fact.



Barbara Ellen? She was NME seed, breed and generation.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Barbara Ellen? She was NME seed, breed and generation.


Yep, you're right. We're two one up. And i have a few super subs (don't bother with parsons/burchill - wrong time and they reflecting something else).


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 9, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Yep, you're right. We're two one up. And i have a few super subs (don't bother with parsons/burchill - wrong time and they reflecting something else).



William Leith got his start at the NME, also.

Seriously though, I can remember a fascinating piece in the NME about the underground rock scene in Czechoslovakia, but by the end of the 80s that kind of thing was going well out of style.


----------



## Santino (Sep 9, 2014)

Doesn't Mr Agreeable edit the Guardian's lifestyle pages these days?


----------



## Belushi (Sep 10, 2014)

They've started a membership scheme! For £15 a month http://www.theguardian.com/membersh...lan-rusbridger-welcome-to-guardian-membership


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2014)

and for that you get to attend conferences at some posh building. You'd have thought they'd throw a free soulmates sub in with the price, just incase you accidently go on okcupid and end up fucking someone who isn't a twat.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 10, 2014)

Belushi said:


> They've started a membership scheme! For £15 a month http://www.theguardian.com/membersh...lan-rusbridger-welcome-to-guardian-membership


 


> This is how the idea started: just over two years ago, we threw open our doors at Kings Place in London for a kind of weekend festival. We wanted to test the appetite of our readers for close-up encounters with the paper’s journalists, together with a scintillating array of outside speakers, and with each other.
> Crowds at the Guardian and Observer open weekend in 2012. Photograph: Katherine Rose/Guardian
> About 6,000 of you crowded into the building over the weekend. The atmosphere was great. The debates were absorbing. The food, fringe conversations and music were incredibly relaxed and enjoyable. The sun shone.


 Come friendly bombs...


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2014)

also: no badges or decoder rings? come on.


----------



## Theisticle (Sep 10, 2014)

The high-profile news: The Guardian is redeveloping 30,000 square feet of falling-apart old warehouse, the Grade II-listed Midland Goods Shed in the heart of London, just blocks away from its Kings Cross-area headquarters. The new two-story expanse known as Guardian Space will begin hosting dozens of events a week after the scheduled 2016 opening. But long before the Space opens its doors The Guardian will begin throwing many more events in venues around the U.K. beginning this fall. Overall, The Guardian believes it will sponsor hundreds of events _each week_ across Britain through the Guardian Live push. Check out the initial list here, ranging from author talks to comedy and “the science of cycling.”

They cover “events, activities and courses.” Quite importantly, The Guardian won’t be doing that itself. It will partner with a wide assortment of educational and cultural institutions — think of the relationship and possible commercial sponsorship benefits of that outreach — to produce and-co-produce events.

Events are one part of this new play. The other part: The Guardian Membership, in lieu of paywalls.

http://www.niemanlab.org/2014/09/ke...ership-playing-the-physicaldigital-continuum/


----------



## Santino (Sep 10, 2014)

I love events!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2014)

heres hoping theres will be akin to the tunguska one


----------



## cantsin (Sep 10, 2014)

Feeeble attempt by Zoe "I've got a Nanny, so what" Williams" to establish that the #Yes campaign is winning because they've painted the whole of England as Tories ("a wicked Lie" ) 

Don't bother looking for a single piece of supporting evidence etc. 

http://labourlist.org/2014/09/a-message-to-the-people-of-scotland-tory-england-is-a-wicked-lie/


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2014)

ISIS do your job:


----------



## weepiper (Sep 10, 2014)

cantsin said:


> Feeeble attempt by Zoe "I've got a Nanny, so what" Williams" to establish that the #Yes campaign is winning because they've painted the whole of England as Tories ("a wicked Lie" )
> 
> Don't bother looking for a single piece of supporting evidence etc.
> 
> http://labourlist.org/2014/09/a-message-to-the-people-of-scotland-tory-england-is-a-wicked-lie/


That was actually written by Jamie Reed MP, she just tweeted a link to it. It is a terrible and moderately offensive article though.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2014)

Yellow sofa cunts.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Yellow sofa cunts.


Look at my_ fucking yellow sofa_!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2014)

clear yellow sofa  liberals


----------



## Buckaroo (Sep 10, 2014)

more slime green than yellow


----------



## Wilf (Sep 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> ISIS do your job:


 
Sit the fuck down Rusbridger!  These are people who were _almost_ friendly with Julain Assange.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Community 1


 
Community 2


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 11, 2014)

Belushi said:


> They've started a membership scheme! For £15 a month http://www.theguardian.com/membersh...lan-rusbridger-welcome-to-guardian-membership



They lost 500k on that open weekend event according to Private Eye


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> ISIS do your job:



There's a friend of mine in that pic


----------



## J Ed (Oct 2, 2014)

Poll: is Wonga right to let people off their loans?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 2, 2014)

What would you think had happened from this headline?


----------



## Flavour (Oct 2, 2014)

Evidently aimed to make reader click in shock at possible banning of burqa in public in all of Australia... Actually just bans burqa from parliament building, where I would guess no one has ever worn one. 

I haven't actually read the article. Am I close?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 2, 2014)

That's almost it, burqas banned from public gallery in parliament, not even parliament.


----------



## JTG (Oct 3, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-conservatives-labout-hate-lib-dems-need-them

Here's a shit piece talking up a new coalition, in the face of all polling evidence for the past four years


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 4, 2014)

_Grauniad_ hits Peak Morris:



> *I married myself*
> Finding the right person to make a commitment to can take years, but it turned out that Grace Gelder had known her perfect partner all her life



http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/oct/04/i-married-myself-wedding


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2014)

my word. The article has the exact same feeling of desperate, delusional sadness as the original sketch too.


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2014)

> Mainly for logistical reasons, my sister was the only member of my family who came. But my mum and dad did send me supportive texts throughout the day.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 4, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> There's a friend of mine in that pic



The BBC taxi driver?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 4, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> There's a friend of mine in that pic


So you're the one who feeds Hugh Muir all his anarcho gossip!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 4, 2014)

I'm working class you know.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 5, 2014)

Just leaving this here:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/05/-sp-drug-taking-fortysomethings-rave-middle-aged


----------



## killer b (Oct 5, 2014)

oh my. That's endlessly quotable.


----------



## Voley (Oct 5, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Just leaving this here:
> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/05/-sp-drug-taking-fortysomethings-rave-middle-aged





> The low point of the summer was being sick in front of the Ocado man and blaming it on morning sickness so he wouldn’t think I was awful.



I swear they write this stuff for a laugh sometimes.


----------



## Voley (Oct 5, 2014)

> But that’s not to say that, once in a while, we can’t let our thinning hair down, put the Bucketheads on the stereo and party like it’s 1995.



Fucking priceless.


----------



## phildwyer (Oct 5, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> *I married myself*



I divorced myself.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2014)

ffs





Laughable, schoolboy error...this should, of course, have gone in the 'long-awaited' Tele thread...but heck...it could have appeared in the Grauniad.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2014)

but nothing comes out when he moves his lips, just a bunch of gibberish, motherfucker acts like he forgot about fairpay


----------



## tufty79 (Oct 6, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> _Grauniad_ hits Peak Morris


i did that last year 
(in private,  mind, with no guests,  but still..
) 


killer b said:


> feeling of desperate, delusional sadness


----------



## andysays (Oct 6, 2014)

brogdale said:


> ...Laughable, schoolboy error...this should, of course, have gone in the 'long-awaited' Tele thread...but heck...it could have appeared in the Grauniad.





> The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.


----------



## PoorButNotAChav (Oct 6, 2014)

Hello Urban75 members.

Could anyone please tell me if there is a way I can visit or post links to the website of The Guardian without giving them clicks?

I stopped buying the print version of The Guardian a while ago and just read what I wanted online but the content keeps getting worse and now I don't want to visit their website again.  However, if I need to visit their website I would like to be able to do so without it registering on their site statistics.  Is that possible?  I'm imagining an incognito version of TinyURL or a browser add-on which lets you read webpages without giving them the clicks they are desperately fishing for with their clickbait.

Do such things exist and if so could someone please give me more information?  If you do please bear in mind that I'm not that technically proficient when it comes to web browsers and not up-to-date when it comes to computer terminology.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## andysays (Oct 6, 2014)

Oh look, they've given Robin Wales (mayor of  Newham) the opportunity to defend his position in the Focus E15/Carpenters Estate disgrace.

I apologise to the Focus E15 families, but this is a London housing crisis

Comments are open...


----------



## Greebo (Oct 6, 2014)

andysays said:


> Oh look, they've given Robin Wales (mayor of  Newham) the opportunity to defend his position in the Focus E15/Carpenters Estate disgrace. <snip>


It's regrettable that anything I'd like to say on the matter (eg buck-passing knbohead) would be moderated to meaninglessness.


----------



## andysays (Oct 6, 2014)

Greebo said:


> It's regrettable that anything I'd like to say on the matter (eg buck-passing knbohead) would be moderated to meaninglessness.



Yeah, I gave up posting on there some years ago for that very reason, among others.

One thing I did notice was that he totally omitted to mention the fact that many of the E15Focus families were likely to be rehoused hundreds of miles away. Still, out of sight, out of mind, eh?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 6, 2014)

The scales have fallen from my eyes recently about the Guardian. Insidious poison.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 6, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> The scales have fallen from my eyes recently about the Guardian. Insidious poison.


What next, William?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 6, 2014)

A hippy?


----------



## rekil (Oct 7, 2014)

Rory Carroll on form. Probably the article he always wanted to write about Venezuela. War is great.

In the Californian desert, UK and US forces crave 'a crack at the headcutters'



> “It’s what we train to do,” said Blake Harding, 22, still buzzing after unleashing about 1,700 rounds from a machine gun. “It’s quite cathartic.”


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 10, 2014)

New _Guardian_ survey manages to express typical Graun half-measures in form of poorly-expressed monitoring question:


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2014)

Note the progress bar._ Answer on our terms or fail in the journey to full progressiveness._


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Note the progress bar._ Answer on our terms or fail in the journey to full progressiveness._


Actually it's a typo - that's an interactive values bar, measuring how right-on the reader is.

It should read ‘You're progressive’.


----------



## rekil (Oct 10, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/oct/10/-sp-could-you-be-a-star-blogger-vlogger?CMP=twt_gu

Yukky.



> Brands are keen to work with students


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2014)

And they wonder why we support ISIS.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> And they wonder why we support ISIS.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2014)

Make sure to allow them to order what they want and then sneer at their choice of food laurie.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


>



what happened to her sojourn in america?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 10, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> what happened to her sojourn in america?


She's still there - these days all the penniless _working class_ students with a strong brand commute across the Atlantic whenever a monetisation or brand-building opportunity comes up.

She's on the guestlist for Amanda Palmer's book launch party in November - Nazi fancy dress optional:


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> She's still there - these days all the penniless _working class_ students with a strong brand commute across the Atlantic whenever a monetisation or brand-building opportunity comes up.
> 
> She's on the guestlist for Amanda Palmer's book launch party in November - Nazi fancy dress optional:



is prince harry going then?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 10, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> is prince harry going then?


Him, Amanda and Laurie will be providing entertainment in the form of a live reeneactment of that Romain Gavras M.I.A. video.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2014)

Just fucking why? Why report this?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 14, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Just fuckView attachment 62435 ing why? Why report this?


WTF?! Where did Roy Plomley go?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2014)

now he's gone white haired he reminds me of colonel sanders


----------



## PoorButNotAChav (Oct 16, 2014)

Today The Guardian published an article by Hannah Giorgis headlined "The problem with the west's Ebola response is still fear of a black patient".  As well as containing 16 uses of the journalistic "we" (such as "We will tweet about how much more terrifying Ebola is than black-eyed ghost children." and "We will try to hide our fear behind jokes with dying black bodies as their punchlines.") the article contains the following statement:

_Liberia is perilously under-resourced to deal with the outbreak, and the United States has perhaps ominously committed only military personnel there._

http://www.donotlink.com/c2r3

The United States has committed military personnel to the area of West Africa worst affected by the current Ebola epidemic.  They are there to build 17 treatment units which contain 100 beds each.  The US military has also "deployed three mobile laboratories to assess whether individuals with symptoms actually have the Ebola. U.S. troops with training in infectious diseases test samples for presence of the virus, cutting the time it takes to determine whether a patient is infected from a few days to a few hours".  The US military will also "help to distribute food aid" in Liberia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...to-complete-ebola-treatment-units-in-liberia/

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/09/us-military-liberia-fight-ebola

Why is The Guardian going down the pan?  Perhaps it is because it is a dishonest newspaper which publishes dishonest articles by dishonest writers.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Oct 16, 2014)

The Guardian's support for blair's nu-labour and the fib-dimocrats says all you need to know why it is such a shit paper


----------



## Sea Star (Oct 16, 2014)

I think the scales were lifted from my eyes during the post 9/11 period and the coverage of the war in Iraq. For a short time I bought the Guardian and the Independent and gap between their coverage of the war was astonishing! I decided then to stop wasting my money and just bought the Indie.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 18, 2014)

Graunid article wanking over Nick Clegg's wife, the rich daughter of a Francoist mayor.

BTW I totally missed this puff piece from the Graunid actually praising the Francoist mayor. Some absolutely shockingly far-right history is cited in that article uncontested by any opposing views or reality,



> "It is complicated," said Enrique Berzal, professor of history at the University of Valladolid. "González was a classic hard-right figure. Democracy came about in Spain because pro-Francoists decided to move to democracy when they saw what was coming [after the dictator's death]. He was certainly no anti-fascist democrat, but nor was he a simple Francoist. His political culture was certainly not democratic. The recent history of Spain cannot be simply framed as good versus evil."


 
Nothing to do with increased militancy or a car bomb killing off Franco's appointed heir?


----------



## teqniq (Oct 21, 2014)

This could have and possibly has been posted on the Pistorius thread, however I have not been taking part in it.

Simon Jenkins indulges in some vacuous drivel

Oscar Pistorius should not be going to jail


----------



## PoorButNotAChav (Oct 21, 2014)

*Coming in The Guardian as soon as someone manages to half-finish an article:*

_Oscar Pistorius got off lightly because he's a man_

_Oscar Pistorius got off lightly because he's white_

_Oscar Pistorius got off lightly because he's rich_

_Oscar Pistorius got off lightly because the black female judge has internalised racism and misogyny and is no better than Jeremy Clarkson and that bloke who was kicked out of UKIP_


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 22, 2014)

> * Has The Apprentice ruined what it means to be an entrepreneur?*
> A poll has shown a generally negative impression of the business world, and reality TV could be part of the problem



http://www.theguardian.com/media-ne.../apprentice-dragons-den-business-entrepreneur

What could possibly have contributed to a public perception that entrepreneurs are thick venal arseholes? Reality TV gameshows, must be it.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 23, 2014)

Never mind the politics of that article 3% of over 55s and upto 10% of 18+ people think corporations are bad therefore that represents a big shift caused by two TV shows? It's hard to point to a single sensible or interesting point in that article


----------



## brogdale (Oct 24, 2014)

Unless gideon has developed an overly long, hairier toned and tanned arm....I'd say he wasn't "using" a nail gun there, but merely hanging onto it whilst a worker used it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2014)

probably holding the workers arm back its a metaphor for something.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> probably holding the workers arm back its a metaphor for something.



Nail gun; gideon's smug fizzog....I'd say that's an opportunity missed.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 24, 2014)

His slight look of disgust is very telling.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 24, 2014)

Is there an Evening Standard thread?
Cos I've found one of the most obnoxious articles I've ever seen in it


----------



## Belushi (Oct 24, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Is there an Evening Standard thread?
> Cos I've found one of the most obnoxious articles I've ever seen in it



Don't think there is, definitely worth starting one - its the only paper I read with any kind of regularity.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 28, 2014)




----------



## butchersapron (Oct 28, 2014)

Greens are shit threads might also do -  a millionaire green doctor - called pippa - in their massive garden taunting everyone else:

You lot _over there_ - stop having children.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 28, 2014)

Note the millionaire doctor with a huge garden that many poorer people could use as a playground to be observed in doesn't mention her leading role in the Optimum Population Trust. Nor the journo. Nor their social network connections. This green millionaire just _happened_ to be who you wrote about.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 28, 2014)

She has two kids already! What a trumpet!


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 28, 2014)

> Population Matters has seen its membership double in the last five years and now has 6,000 people on its mailing list. It promotes “sustainable family size” and campaigns for universal access to family planning services. It suggests that child benefit be paid for the first two children only, with families being means-tested before receiving subsidies for a third


christ sake- family planning is already universal. Limit the benefits yeah? cos that will stop people having children. No. It'll jus mean mum stretching her meagre bens to cover four. And getting called a cunt for it. Like she can't manage the money she hasn't got. Vile malthusian pricks


----------



## The Pale King (Oct 28, 2014)

A few choice quotes from the populationmatters website:
*

Confucius – philosopher 551 – 479 BC*
“Excessive (population) growth may reduce output per worker, repress levels of living for the masses and engender strife.”






*Aristotle – philosopher 384 – 322 BC*
“One would have thought that it was even more necessary to limit population than property…The neglect of this subject, which in existing states is so common, is a never-failing cause of poverty among the citizens; and poverty is the parent of both revolution and crime.”

*Tertullian – writer and theologian 160 – 220*
“The strongest witness is the vast population of the Earth to which we are a burden and she scarcely can provide for our needs.”

*Nicolas Machiavelli – political theorist and philosopher 1469 – 1527*
“When every province of the world so teems with inhabitants that they can neither subsist where they are nor remove themselves elsewhere… the world will purge itself in one or another of these three ways (floods, plague and famine).”

...What a strange bunch. What sort of person gets into population control as political activity?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 28, 2014)

The Pale King said:


> A few choice quotes from the populationmatters website:
> *
> 
> Confucius – philosopher 551 – 479 BC*
> ...


Chris Korda?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Korda
Chris Korda - Save the planet, kill yourself:


----------



## JimW (Oct 28, 2014)

The Pale King said:


> A few choice quotes from the populationmatters website:...



That Confucius quote looks dodgy, he praises burgeoning population (famously in Analects 13.9, the Chinese makes it clear he's impressed by the population) and one of the virtues of kings in his time was having the charismatic appeal to draw in more farmers and increase the size of your state. They used to moan about the influence of Confucianism hindering the family planning policy of recent years.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 28, 2014)

What's that tim roth film?


----------



## JimW (Oct 28, 2014)

He looks like he's about to execute some judo manoeuvre to do his bit for reducing the population.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What's that tim roth film?


_The War Zone_?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 28, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> _The War Zone_?


Keep it the family - don't add to the wider burden.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 31, 2014)

"I don’t want my kid to end up on the scrapheap. So I send her private"

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-myth-midde-class-parents-cheat-state-system


----------



## NoXion (Oct 31, 2014)

Groups like the Optimum Population Trust strike me as being the "reasonable face" of a particularly ugly undercurrent which includes ecofascist Pentti Linkola and other exterminist Malthusians. What they all seem to have in common is that they find it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.

I don't think any of them are much if at all influential now, but I am concerned that as the contradictions of late-stage global neo-liberalism mount up (including but not limited to climate change and its associated implications, automation and other causes of increasing unemployment, and so on), such voices will be found useful in some manner by the ruling classes, with horrifying consequences for everyone else. Ugh.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 1, 2014)

S☼I said:


> "I don’t want my kid to end up on the scrapheap. So I send her private"
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-myth-midde-class-parents-cheat-state-system





> More needs to be done to help poor parents improve their parenting skills, to pass on life skills, ambition, and scope to their children.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> christ sake- family planning is already universal. Limit the benefits yeah? cos that will stop people having children. No. It'll jus mean mum stretching her meagre bens to cover four. And getting called a cunt for it. Like she can't manage the money she hasn't got. Vile malthusian pricks



Only a millionaire would genuinely imagine that anyone would have kids for the £14 a week child benefit.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 1, 2014)

JimW said:


> That Confucius quote looks dodgy, he praises burgeoning population (famously in Analects 13.9, the Chinese makes it clear he's impressed by the population) and one of the virtues of kings in his time was having the charismatic appeal to draw in more farmers and increase the size of your state. They used to moan about the influence of Confucianism hindering the family planning policy of recent years.



Where's the Malthus quote?

These cunts make me want to become one of those quiverfull Xtians and have 20 kids lol


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2014)

this is just a straight advert isn't it?

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/nov/02/adidas-hidden-hoard-in-argentina-ian-brown


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2014)

killer b said:


> this is just a straight advert isn't it?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/nov/02/adidas-hidden-hoard-in-argentina-ian-brown


Yep and the whole - _we took e in the early 90s crew and also saw some hooligans once_ - they are all in on it in on it.  Kev 'gradely' cummins included.


----------



## rekil (Nov 2, 2014)

killer b said:


> this is just a straight advert isn't it?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2014/nov/02/adidas-hidden-hoard-in-argentina-ian-brown


Yup. Adidas "brand positioning"



> Gary Aspden is a brand expert, specializing in building and positioning brands with an emphasis on creating connections between brands and popular culture.
> 
> As a result of his work at Adidas, he was twice voted one of the most influential people in fashion by The Face magazine.


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2014)

this bit is surely just a C&P from the press release? 



> Aspden challenged himself to recreate an Adidas aesthetic without relying on the signature three stripes. The classic Beckenbauer track jacket is reimagined in luxury wool, with lined pockets. The Touring shoe has cup soles, as seen on Adidas Trimm Trabs. Quintessential contours are adhered to, branding reduced to pin badges and undercollar tape.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 4, 2014)

Three squealing pigs explain to all us thicko's about how leaving the EU wold be terrible 


> if Britain finally ended its “sterile debate” over Europe by leaving the EU, it would quickly discover “that most of our problems are not caused by Brussels, but by chronic British short-termism, inadequate management, sloth, low skills and a culture of easy gratification and under-investment”


----------



## ska invita (Nov 6, 2014)

2nd box down on the front page, headline reads:

John Lewis ad
Festive penguin
John Lewis unveils Christmas ad starring Monty the penguin
£1m festive ad features a young boy playing with a CGI animated penguin to the tune of John Lennon’s Real Love
read more! http://www.theguardian.com/business...veils-christmas-ad-starring-monty-the-penguin


----------



## Poi E (Nov 6, 2014)

Ok, so what are some good reasons for having children?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 7, 2014)

Poi E said:


> Ok, so what are some good reasons for having children?


Love


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 7, 2014)

Poi E said:


> Ok, so what are some good reasons for having children?


Fresher-tasting Soylent Green, spare parts, annoying Malthusians, council houses, milk tokens, undermining the CCP?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 7, 2014)

Poi E said:


> Ok, so what are some good reasons for having children?


Children.


----------



## Santino (Nov 7, 2014)

Poi E said:


> Ok, so what are some good reasons for having children?


Did you know that many of the most interesting people you know were probably once children?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2014)

the children are our future.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 7, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the children are our future.


Drippy but true. Who else is gonna get us out if this mess?
We need new minds.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 7, 2014)

Here you go...yer proley scum...


----------



## andysays (Nov 7, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Here you go...yer proley scum...





> Whether you grew up posh or poor, the chances are you haven't remained in that class.



Actually, I think the chances are very much that most people *have* remained in the class they grew up in...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 8, 2014)

> There are three main layers of silencing of apostates’ voices. The first layer is the hardcore religious silencing, which includes notions that we deserve to be killed and harmed. Underneath that is a second layer of some Muslims who may not agree we should be persecuted, but don’t want to have these problematic aspects or religion talked about, because of feelings of embarrassment, fear of the consequences, or cognitive dissonance regarding apostasy/blasphemy codes. The third layer underneath this is the relativism of white liberals who are often in concordance with silencing instincts over these issues, including silencing of ex-Muslims, for the reasons we outlined earlier. Often, relativist liberals simply pretend we don’t exist.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Nov 8, 2014)

andysays said:


> Actually, I think the chances are very much that most people *have* remained in the class they grew up in...



oh they're such idiots.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 10, 2014)

How to be a sexy dad.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/08/are-you-a-sexy-dad?CMP=fb_gu

What

I don't even


----------



## Nylock (Nov 10, 2014)

fucksake


----------



## JTG (Nov 10, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> How to be a sexy dad.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/nov/08/are-you-a-sexy-dad?CMP=fb_gu
> 
> ...


Journalist is about to become a father and a) wishes to tell the world how virile he is and b) is hung up about not being desirable any more


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

Apparently ladies like SF, fantasy fiction and comics yeahbut...



> *The rise of the geekettes*



http://www.theguardian.com/childrens-books-site/2014/nov/11/sci-fi-rise-of-the-geekettes-huw-powell

Cf:
_
*gender issues*
Our use of language reflects our values, as well as changes in society. Phrases such as career girl or career woman, for example, are outdated (more women have careers than men) and patronising (there is no male equivalent).

So we use actor or comedian for women as well as men, not actress or comedienne (but waiter and waitress are acceptable – at least for the moment); firefighter, not fireman; PC, not WPC (police forces have abandoned the distinction), postal workers, not postmen, etc.

Avoid terms such as businessmen, housewives, male nurse, woman driver, woman (lady!) doctor, etc, which reinforce outdated stereotypes. If you need to use an adjective, it is female and not "woman" in such phrases as female bishops, female MPs, female president._​
http://www.theguardian.com/guardian-observer-style-guide-g

*** PAGING Vintage Paw ***


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 11, 2014)

The ride of the journalistettes. The workerettes.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 11, 2014)

Hello I'm a real job with ette on the end.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 11, 2014)

thats a remarkably lightweight advert for the blokes book.

He's mentioned that SF hasn't recieved as much attention as fantasy and dystopia in recent years, which is plainly untrue. Just off the top of my head this year saw Anne Leckie publish the debut hugo-winning 'ancillary Justice' and its sequel 'Ancillary Sword'. Well written, inventive sf with a strong female lead.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

It's an impressive trifecta of mansplaining, gender-specific diminutives and shameless self-pluggery, in a section fraudulently billed as ‘by kids, for kids’. 

SWIZZ!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> thats a remarkably lightweight advert for the blokes book.
> 
> He's mentioned that SF hasn't recieved as much attention as fantasy and dystopia in recent years, which is plainly untrue. Just off the top of my head this year saw Anne Leckie publish the debut hugo-winning 'ancillary Justice' and its sequel 'Ancillary Sword'. Well written, inventive sf with a strong female lead.


By a writerette. Well done her!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> By a writerette.



_Scribtrix_, if you please.


----------



## killer b (Nov 11, 2014)

Someone linked to the most lightweight story I've ever seen on facebook this morning. It was so flimsy I cant even remember what it was about, but was essentially a series of twitter posts.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

killer b said:


> Someone linked to the most lightweight story I've ever seen on facebook this morning. It was so flimsy I cant even remember what it was about, but was essentially a series of twitter posts.


Was that the one on the response to the _Mail_'s front page?

ETA:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/me...ritain-concede-daily-mail-front-page-is-right


----------



## killer b (Nov 11, 2014)

Yes! Jesus, that was shit.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

killer b said:


> Yes! Jesus, that was shit.


Much as it pains me, that was at least just a blog post, and one whose impact was limited by the way the _Guardian_ website renders social media artifacts like tweets, eg by not automatically converting links to images into actual images.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 11, 2014)

Nevertheless. some monkey got paid for that. That's what they pay for.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> By a writerette. Well done her!




several reviewers used the phrase 'banksian' which is entirely deserved, the late great ian obvs not the graff person.

I'm sure this passed the pieces author by somehow. Despite being a large hit and winning the genres highest award


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm sure this passed the pieces author by somehow. Despite being a large hit and winning the genres highest award


Not a proper literary prize like the Manette Booker, then?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Nevertheless. some monkey got paid for that. That's what they pay for.


Gig should've gone to a chimpress


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Nevertheless. some monkey got paid for that. That's what they pay for.


i wouldn't be surprised to find that no one got paid for that.  That's what you intern for.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 11, 2014)

belboid said:


> i wouldn't be surprised to find that no one got paid for that.  That's what you intern for.


I suspect someone who is paid and with a name did it. Hence the monkey irrepressible monkey magic byline.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I suspect someone who is paid and with a name did it. Hence the monkey irrepressible monkey magic byline.


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I suspect someone who is paid and with a name did it. Hence the monkey irrepressible monkey magic byline.


whereas that byline makes me suspect that's its done by an unpaid intern just glad to be a part of the marvelous institution that is the guardian.  It's generally only bits from other papers and twitter searches


----------



## youngian (Nov 11, 2014)

JTG said:


> Journalist is about to become a father and a) wishes to tell the world how virile he is and b) is hung up about not being desirable any more





> By Stuart Heritage


 He sounds like a nemesis of Stephen Toast


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 11, 2014)

*eye twitches at every mention of 'geekette'*

*wanders off to seek solace in a video game, because she is a lady gamer*

*cries*


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 14, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sexual-beard-plaid-male-fashion?commentpage=1

I have no words. 

Well I do - asinine, vapid, hoxton twat style-vomit-comment.


----------



## rekil (Nov 14, 2014)

PICK...CHURRRS!!?


----------



## JTG (Nov 14, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/14/lumbersexual-beard-plaid-male-fashion

Edit: damn, beaten to it


----------



## rekil (Nov 14, 2014)




----------



## JTG (Nov 14, 2014)

Christ


----------



## el-ahrairah (Nov 14, 2014)

Christ.


----------



## andysays (Nov 14, 2014)

christ on a fixie bike


----------



## JTG (Nov 14, 2014)

christonabike


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2014)

who tf is that?


----------



## fishfinger (Nov 14, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> who tf is that?


Judging by the name of the file, I'm guessing it's Amanda "fucking" Palmer.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2014)

oh I like dreden dolls.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 14, 2014)

I went off the millionaire when she offered session musicians beer and hugs for working for her instead of wages


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 14, 2014)

I thought she was shit before that. Isn't it great how kickstarter flattens wages for her though?

My tour makes £1 000 000. Kickstarter  gets 10 grand. I pay for a few flights and travel. _You pay for me to play to people who also pay to see us play - i keep the dosh._ Winner.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 14, 2014)

_Oh yeah, i go to the guardian offices._ 

Really.


----------



## killer b (Nov 14, 2014)

every day's a party in the graun newsroom.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 14, 2014)

killer b said:


> every day's a party in the graun newsroom.



Unless you're unfortunate enough to work for them


----------



## Belushi (Nov 14, 2014)

copliker said:


> View attachment 63771



I hope someone has done a risk assessment, those filing cabinets aren't designed to take the weight of a pop star.


----------



## rekil (Nov 14, 2014)

The floundering Pussy Riot brand was in there yesterday.


----------



## killer b (Nov 14, 2014)

I thought 'map of tasmania' was a great tune, mind.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 15, 2014)

killer b said:


> every day's a party in the graun newsroom.


We've been here before!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 15, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I hope someone has done a risk assessment, those filing cabinets aren't designed to take the weight of a pop star.


Fortunately it's been stress-tested to withstand ART


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 15, 2014)

Did I imagine it, or did The Kingster join us for a while before he was exiled to Egypt?


----------



## Jay Park (Nov 16, 2014)

Doesn't mention that he is unwilling to take responsibility for what he did, and talks of 'those "pesky strong" feelings' about rape. Twat.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...evans-case-moral-confusion-jessica-ennis-hill


----------



## JTG (Nov 16, 2014)

Jay Park said:


> Doesn't mention that he is unwilling to take responsibility for what he did, and talks of 'those "pesky strong" feelings' about rape. Twat.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...evans-case-moral-confusion-jessica-ennis-hill


Ellen's a nob anyway, pay no attention.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2014)

_Observer_, but still:


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2014)

Yum!


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 16, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> _Observer_, but still:
> 
> View attachment 63824



I can remember a time when the Observer was a genuinely great paper - it had the best African coverage in  the English-speaking world, for example. Then it was bought by Tiny Rowland.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2014)

What's objectionable about recipes? It's the only section I bother to read


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 16, 2014)

Toast recipes though? I must admit I'm a big fan of Yotam Ottalenghis recipes in the weekend mag


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2014)

What's wrong with toast recipes? Gonna check em out now. Might be some good ideas there. Toast is kind of boring so anything to make it more exciting is OK by me.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2014)

*Christmas on a budget: the Skint Foodie’s six-week plan*
If money is tight, you can still enjoy a festive feast with careful planning and these shopping tips and recipes from the award-winning food blogger



> My current favourite coffee bean is the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. You can buy it online from Monsoon Estates for £4.95 for 227g . That works out at a smidge over 40p per cup, if you work on the basis of 18g for “double shot” strength. And, by the way, if you buy four bags they deliver free.
> 
> I’m fortunate to live near the Brick House bakery and can buy an 850g loaf of its peerless sourdough for £3, which is the same price as two 400g supermarket loaves of pain de campagne but for a far superior product.
> 
> ...


----------



## Belushi (Nov 16, 2014)

jesus


----------



## seventh bullet (Nov 16, 2014)

Another planet.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 16, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> Another planet.



Space travel's in my blood.


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 16, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> Another planet.


They're trolling us!


----------



## Wilf (Nov 16, 2014)

brogdale said:


> *Christmas on a budget: the Skint Foodie’s six-week plan*


Gasp!


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2014)

That fella is genuinely on benefits though. Or was until he got employed by the Guardian. I read his blog when I was unemployed and found it very useful.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> That fella is genuinely on benefits though. Or was until he got employed by the Guardian. I read his blog when I was unemployed and found it very useful.


So he's not on benefits, then?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 16, 2014)

brogdale said:


> So he's not on benefits, then?


I dunno. Not judging by the extract above. His blog used to be much more geared around economising and planning than just foodie recipes and bargains. And he's moved from Peckham to the East End, so probs not!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I dunno. Not judging by the extract above. His blog used to be much more geared around economising and planning than just foodie recipes and bargains. And he's moved from Peckham to the East End, so probs not!


Well, yeah...whatever...but he's just written such a pile of wank that it might just represent peak Guardian shite.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 16, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Space travel's in my blood.



There ain't nothing I can do about it.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 16, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> There ain't nothing I can do about it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2014)

brogdale said:


> *Christmas on a budget: the Skint Foodie’s six-week plan*
> If money is tight, you can still enjoy a festive feast with careful planning and these shopping tips and recipes from the award-winning food blogger


----------



## el-ahrairah (Nov 16, 2014)

you see, poor people obviously _choose _not to eat well.  if they just budgeted properly they could eat better than most guardian readers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2014)

My current favourite coffee bean is the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 16, 2014)

brogdale said:


> *Christmas on a budget: *



Christmas with the Devil!


----------



## Wilf (Nov 16, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> My current favourite coffee bean is the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe


Yes indeed, it's the very bedroom tax of beans.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Yes indeed, it's the very bedroom tax of beans.





> In the cup you start with deliciously sweet caramel and toffee with big base notes. There are hints of blueberries and blackberries, and the tiniest hint of natural funk.



I josh you not.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2014)

brogdale said:


> I josh you not.


base notes? is that like dirty texts?


----------



## Wilf (Nov 16, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> base notes? is that like dirty texts?


No, no, base notes are the alchemy of universal credit.  Nice with a Rich Tea.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 16, 2014)

My favourite coffee is the one that says 'coffee' on the packet.


----------



## JTG (Nov 16, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> My favourite coffee is the one that says 'coffee' on the packet.


Always had you down as a Mellow Birds man tbh


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 16, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> My favourite coffee is the one that says 'coffee' on the packet.


Yeah only freaks and rich people care about nice coffee


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Yeah only freaks and rich people care about nice coffee


Who you calling a freak?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 16, 2014)

Ben Grimm's hand


----------



## andysays (Nov 16, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Yeah only freaks and rich people care about nice coffee



I like nice(ish) coffee, and (I hope) I'm neither a freak or rich, but I don't go around peppering my conversation with things like


> My current favourite coffee bean is the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe



Sainsbury's _Italian Style Fairtrade Ready Ground_ is my "favourite" coffee, and has been for quite some time


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 16, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Who you calling a freak?
> 
> View attachment 63847



I miss Nutty bars


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I miss Nutty bars


Them ain't no Marathons.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2014)

luak shit?


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> luak shit?


----------



## rekil (Nov 16, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Did I imagine it, or did The Kingster join us for a while before he was exiled to Egypt?


Don't think so. On twitter he said he wanted a PD mug and I promised him one, but never sent it. 

Good that he's flying the G flag away in forrin: "Cairo's hipster bike shop hoping to lead the city's cycling revolution"


----------



## Flavour (Nov 19, 2014)

Some shit in there today about how gentrification is the natural law of evolution for cities


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 23, 2014)

Giving that turd Alexander space to tell us how much the coalition has done for the poor.

Comments are great, though. Some of my favourites


> ... oh, f@ck off you noisome LibDem liar.





> You're either fucking deluded or an arsehole. Almost certainly both.





> I cannot express in words my hatred for you and all the rest of you self serving b@stards.


----------



## killer b (Nov 25, 2014)

there's a revolting arse-lick piece on Gordon Brown today. I can't find it on the website though. Probably for the best, it'd doubtless make you a bit sick.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...ty-class-warriors-myleene-klass-russell-brand

can't make head nor tale of this. I know hadley is normally doing some arch pisstake of something, but this shallnot parse


----------



## jrthelord (Nov 25, 2014)

The Guardian website is mostly click bait these days, I'm much more likely to read the food section than the actual news section.

CiF can be a laugh sometimes, had to have a giggle at this one....

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lton-lack-popularity-black-formula-1-champion


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 25, 2014)

jrthelord said:


> The Guardian website is mostly click bait these days, I'm much more likely to read the food section than the actual news section.
> 
> CiF can be a laugh sometimes, had to have a giggle at this one....
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lton-lack-popularity-black-formula-1-champion



I particularly like this piece of shity backwards thinking in the comments:



> Nope, its cos Hamilton as a tax avoider particularly sticks in the craw because of his very humble ( council estate I believe ) upbringing. More than most of the other millionaire tax avoiders he benefitted from state benefits, schooling, NHS etc and you would have hoped that he especially would want to pay back into the system that he so benefitted from.


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2014)

One I just spotted from last thursday:

*Cuba doesn't need American paternalism. It has artisan cheese shops all its own*


----------



## rekil (Nov 25, 2014)

In the same cheesy vein. Rubbish BBC piece on Cuba.



> When I told Natasha about my mad shopping dash for Cuba, we remembered her own first trip abroad, to Britain, a year before the Soviet Union disintegrated.
> 
> My mother had taken her out one day for the weekly food shop. "I remember there were all these different cheeses and 10 types of everything." Natasha laughed, recalling her first encounter with a Western supermarket. At first I was excited - then I started crying my eyes out.


----------



## seventh bullet (Nov 25, 2014)

A few years ago in a provincial part of neoliberal Russia I bought a packet of Turkish artisan counterfeit Marlboro Lights from small a shop made out of an old rusting shipping container.  

The Soviet Union was shit, mind.


----------



## seventh bullet (Nov 25, 2014)

> It turns out things in Russia really have changed. The smooth streets of Moscow are now rammed full of monster 4WDs and sleek saloon cars and I only came across one Lada during an entire week.



The posho is lying about this, as well.


----------



## Flavour (Nov 27, 2014)

"Ask yourself, Britain, if there is another country on this earth that insists on noting what school a 65-year-old man attended in any news story about him; and then tell yourself, there is none. All countries are interested in status – in the US this is usually expressed by a fascination with money and, increasingly, fame. But only in Britain is there this kind of paralysing myopia where a person is defined eternally by where their parents sent them to school, where snobbery and inverse snobbery clash with equal force and explode into a fiery ball of angry arguments involving such seemingly random – but actually deeply significant – things like grammar schools and John Lewis."
Hadley Freeman


----------



## killer b (Nov 27, 2014)

I take it she declares her own private schooling and attendance of oxford in the article?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2014)

Freeman, no one is actually interested in what school people attended being included in news stories. Well, no one apart from the editors and journalists in your little bubble. And they are, much like yourself, overwhelmingly products and of privilege. So the reply to your oh so original question is that it's you and your bubble and its self-obsession that makes it happen, no one else - and you can be damn sure it's only an elite schooling that's mentioned in the sort of cases you are writing about.


----------



## rekil (Nov 27, 2014)

‘Britain’s brightest student’ taking aim at teaching’s sacred cows


> Though she comes from a Labour family, she’s a member of the Liberal Democrats and once stood for an unwinnable council seat.


She doesn't describe herself as the brightest (or smartest) tbf.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2014)

If her family is labour why did they send her to private school? Oh, yeah...i remember now.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 27, 2014)

> Welcome to *Britsgiving*: the UK’s newest and completely unofficial holiday. Waitrose this week told the Guardian it estimates one in six Britons now celebrate Thanksgiving, a number that just seems to be going up and up.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 27, 2014)

Jesus, they're fucking *desperate* for American readers


----------



## Flavour (Nov 27, 2014)

Well apparently they're running at a massive loss and now make most of their money from ads so it comes as no surprise, si those of us using ad blockers can pat ourselves on the back for the small part we are playing in their eventual ruin.


----------



## JTG (Nov 27, 2014)

brogdale said:


>


They're a month late


----------



## cantsin (Nov 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...ty-class-warriors-myleene-klass-russell-brand
> 
> can't make head nor tale of this. I know hadley is normally doing some arch pisstake of something, but this shallnot parse



HF is profoundly dull/pointless, even by Graun standards


----------



## yield (Nov 27, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/video/2014/nov/27/ppe-microplay-politics-guardian-royal-court-video

WTF is that about?

http://www.theguardian.com/membership/video/2014/nov/24/ken-clarke-financial-crisis-euro-ukip-video

Awful sycophantic piece


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 28, 2014)

JTG said:


> They're a month late


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 28, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


>


He's being all Canadian and suchlike


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 28, 2014)

fucking canucks


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 28, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> fucking canucks


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/29/is-it-right-public-schools-charitable-status
Only a guardian journalist could fuck up an argument against private education. Anyone with half a brain could have destroyed the pro-private school twit's fatuous argument but Cadwalladr just makes an even more fatuous case against.
This tickled me:
"Journalism, like politics, like law, like the cabinet, like the shadow cabinet, like the City, is dominated by Oxbridge graduates. *Even the Guardian*_*/Observer *_*is." *


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Jesus, they're fucking *desperate* for American readers


they're fucking *desperate* for british readers. or indeed readers of any nationality or description you can conceive.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 30, 2014)

Alexei Sayle’s Marxist demolition of Strictly Come Dancing


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Nov 30, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> they're fucking *desperate* for british readers. or indeed readers of any nationality or description you can conceive.



Anyone desperate enough to get money out and buy the rag ??


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2014)

SikhWarrioR said:


> Anyone desperate enough to get money out and buy the rag ??


yes anyone who'll give them a quid or two


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Alexei Sayle’s Marxist demolition of Strictly Come Dancing



I actually have some time for Alexei Sayle, why would he write something like that


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2014)

His biography is fantastic- funny, moving, observant. All the things you want from an auto-bio that are normally sadly lacking.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> His biography is fantastic- funny, moving, observant. All the things you want from an auto-bio that are normally sadly lacking.



I liked the mini documentary he did about the sun in Liverpool.


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 30, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> I actually have some time for Alexei Sayle, why would he write something like that



Stewart Lee pulled a sickie and Sayle was stand in.


----------



## rekil (Dec 4, 2014)




----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 4, 2014)

I think that's the most middle class tweet ever


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 5, 2014)

In a way, haven't all our children been told off by violinist Kyung Wha Chung for coughing at her concert?


----------



## Santino (Dec 5, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> In a way, haven't all our children been told off by violinist Kyung Wha Chung for coughing at her concert?


In a very real sense, yes.


----------



## rekil (Dec 5, 2014)

Privacy advocates unmask Twitter troll



> What happens when you troll Tor developers hard? You get unmasked.
> 
> Towards the end of last week, a troll who had sent various aggressive tweets to a host of security experts and privacy advocates associated with the Tor project and browser, which enables online anonymity, had his identity exposed. To some, that may seem hypocritical. To others, it seems like justice.



Pando has done a series of articles about Tor and its funding sources, much to the chagrin of the likes of Andrea Shepherd here. According to Shepherd, one of the victims of the troll is littlest nazi Weev who got called, horror of horrors, "an unloved attention starved piece of shit". No mention of that bit in the story.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...de-me-confront-my-do-gooder-racism?CMP=twt_gu


----------



## Belushi (Dec 5, 2014)

Jesus


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2014)

Three different sets of mess in that. That's astonishing stuff.


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 5, 2014)

WTF? That has to be a joke surely?


----------



## J Ed (Dec 5, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...de-me-confront-my-do-gooder-racism?CMP=twt_gu



This is disgusting, she should keep her vile views to herself rather than publicising them as if they are some kind of enlighened epiphany in order to make money


----------



## FNG (Dec 5, 2014)

No true scotsman would write that


----------



## J Ed (Dec 5, 2014)

Thanks for letting us know about that fallacy, you've changed the game


----------



## The Pale King (Dec 6, 2014)

'Do-Gooder racism' is a very interesting coinage.

...Not just any racism, this is _marks and spencer_ racism...So much better than that frightful common muck etc

That article is a horrorshow.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2014)

i'd forgotten Deborah Orr existed.


----------



## FNG (Dec 6, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Thanks for letting us know about that fallacy, you've changed the game



If only. Pretty much sums up her position though.
" is that I clearly see black celebrities as being under a greater obligation to be exemplars than white ones."
" Cosby’s own reputation is at stake here – nobody else’s."

The whole gist of the article is her search for "One True Black Celebrity" to help her discover Racism.

And who is that authentic black voice she turns to?

Chris" Fucking" Rock,

Chris "cant quite manage to admit Cosby is a rapist and would rather pretend he is dead" Rock,

Chis" who distanced himself from his "Black people versus Niggas" routine because it gave racist people a Bill Cosby shaped stick to beat down with" Rock.

Chris Who?

yeah him





> Once in a while kids failing that demand of perfection end up shot dead on the street in a town like Ferguson, Missouri. Likewise, once in a while, a black man accused of selling black-market cigarettes will die after being held in a police officer’s chokehold, like Eric Garner did in New York. My point, I suppose, is that it’s harmful to see black failings as in any way more serious and important than white failings,



Whose demand of perfection Debs? Yours, Bill Cosby and appologists for murdering racist cops thats fucking "whose".


and  notice, and mark how whilst she casually dismisses the death of two men,"once in a while", a glib admission that more are certain to follow that not once does she criticise the police,in Debrohs world Police don't kill people,failings of perception do.


----------



## FNG (Dec 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> i'd forgotten Deborah Orr existed.



The greatest trick Deborah Orr ever pulled was convincing the world she didn't exist.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2014)

It's the same fucking thing.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 6, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> It's the same fucking thing.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 6, 2014)

If that is what she thinks about her son imagine what she thinks about people who aren't her son.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 6, 2014)

This was in the Telegraph but I'll leave it here all the same. What a cock end:


----------



## eatmorecheese (Dec 6, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> It's the same fucking thing.



Christ


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> This was in the Telegraph but I'll leave it here all the same. What a cock end:
> View attachment 64643


Glass of cider at 7am. Boy's a workers.


----------



## rekil (Dec 6, 2014)

Does he slaughter the emu himself?


----------



## emanymton (Dec 6, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> It's the same fucking thing.


Fuckers are taking our accents now.


----------



## seventh bullet (Dec 6, 2014)

emanymton said:


> Fuckers are taking our accents now.



It's nothing new.

It doesn't work so well on the people they're appropriating though, does it?  The Middle Class Twat detector quickly beeps.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 7, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Glass of cider at 7am. Boy's a workers.



Glass of water with some cider *vinegar* in it. Boy's a full-on twat.


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 7, 2014)

copliker said:


> Does he slaughter the emu himself?



Emus aren't real, silly.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 7, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Emu's aren't real, silly.


What are they, then, hullographic illusions?


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 7, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> What are they, then, hullographic illusions?



Have a care Mr. Cinzano, if I fire this _rod _it'll be _curtains _for you.


----------



## JTG (Dec 7, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Have a care Mr. Cinzano, if I fire this _rod _it'll be _curtains _for you.


There's no need to hit the roof and slate him


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 8, 2014)

From the jobs section:



> You will be a forward thinking, polished and well-spoken graduate-level Administrator or PA with at least a years’ experience and looking for the next career step within a lively and dynamic company. *You will be working in a male dominated environment so must have the gravitas to deal with big personalities and banter!*



http://jobs.theguardian.com/job/5980452/ict-administrator-corporate-communications-london-wc2/


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> From the jobs section:
> 
> 
> 
> http://jobs.theguardian.com/job/5980452/ict-administrator-corporate-communications-london-wc2/


Fan-tastic. Yet:



> alongside an intellectually stimulating yet non-hierarchical culture



Someone actually ok-ed that. In a male dominated environment with intellectually stimulating yet non-hierarchical culture with big personalities and banter! . That was ok-ed I wonder how.

edit: is a footlights environment? Is that what they mean?


----------



## teqniq (Dec 8, 2014)

Car-crash advertising.


----------



## killer b (Dec 8, 2014)

wow. that's basically saying you'll be sexually harassed daily and expected to laugh it off doesn't it?


----------



## teqniq (Dec 8, 2014)

pretty much


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2014)

killer b said:


> wow. that's basically saying you'll be sexually harassed daily and expected to laugh it off doesn't it?


Yes.

Good spot dogsauce.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2014)

killer b said:


> wow. that's basically saying you'll be sexually harassed daily and expected to laugh it off doesn't it?


But in a intellectually stimulating yet non-hierarchical culture.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 8, 2014)

And with gravitas


----------



## oryx (Dec 8, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> From the jobs section:
> 
> 
> 
> http://jobs.theguardian.com/job/5980452/ict-administrator-corporate-communications-london-wc2/



Too damn right, !

Not that they want to stereotype/pigeonhole the applicant or anything......so if you have a local accent, or are a bit shy but competent, or even - heaven forfend! - object to bullying and -isms (that's how I read 'big personalities & banter')- YOU'RE FUCKED!!!!


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 8, 2014)

A male dominated environment ffs


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 8, 2014)

God it sounds awful.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2014)

_well-spoken.
_
That literally just means private school - and it's a technical job. Well, booking diary stuff.

(Just so we all know, this isn't a job _at _the guardian, it's one they're happy to sell though)

Ringing people up and that:



> You will be providing support to the Director of ICT, scheduling meetings and calls, placing orders and documenting receipts, assisting with invoices, recording holiday and sick leave for the team, organising training, liaising with recruitment agencies for any hiring needs, booking flights and travel, processing expenses and general admin duties to ensure the smooth running of the team


----------



## oryx (Dec 8, 2014)

Totally incomprehensible that they want a graduate for scheduling meetings and processing invoices etc. Why not just any competent person........oh, hang on a minute, they may be older, or male, or not well-spoken. The latter bit really makes me . Is it code for English as a first language?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 8, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> And with gravitas


I think that might be a typo and they meant to put


> And with gravadlax


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2014)

oryx said:


> Totally incomprehensible that they want a graduate for scheduling meetings and processing invoices etc. Why not just any competent person........oh, hang on a minute, they may be older, or male, or not well-spoken. The latter bit really makes me . Is it code for English as a first language?


they mean regional accents need not apply


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 9, 2014)

Ahhh





frogwoman said:


> And with gravitas


Ahhh, bisto!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 9, 2014)

a big article about how to eat toast  http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/09/how-to-eat-toast

one might almost think that guardian readers can't cook.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2014)

they already ran a how to cook toast article some months back.

Next it'll be an article on how to make pot noodle


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 10, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> a big article about how to eat toast  http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/09/how-to-eat-toast
> 
> one might almost think that guardian readers can't cook.





DotCommunist said:


> they already ran a how to cook toast article some months back.



Indeed - post #3116.

Still, if I was offered cash money to churn out nearly two thousand words on _how to eat toast_, I would shake a few adjectives and adverbs out the thesaurus for it. Would definitely submit it with someone else's head shot attached, though.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 10, 2014)

brogdale said:


> *Christmas on a budget: the Skint Foodie’s six-week plan*
> If money is tight, you can still enjoy a festive feast with careful planning and these shopping tips and recipes from the award-winning food blogger



fucking hell.  Another planet  

Saying that, I remember his blog being decent not shite like that guardian piece.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2014)

They have a Women in Leadership section.  Really. I'm not making this up.

Today's offering:



> Don’t pretend you’re angry with YouTube star Zoe Sugg for her lack of candour – you’re just jealous that she’s smarter, richer and more famous than you


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Indeed - post #3116.
> 
> Still, if I was offered cash money to churn out nearly two thousand words on _how to eat toast_, I would shake a few adjectives and adverbs out the thesaurus for it. Would definitely submit it with someone else's head shot attached, though.


as long as a head shot was involved somewhere. or a neckshot.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Indeed - post #3116.
> 
> Still, if I was offered cash money to churn out nearly two thousand words on _how to eat toast_, I would shake a few adjectives and adverbs out the thesaurus for it. Would definitely submit it with someone else's head shot attached, though.




I suppose the next thrilling piece will be 'how to have a shit after eating toast'


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I suppose the next thrilling piece will be 'how to have a shit after eating toast'


And then get it published and paid for.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Dec 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I suppose the next thrilling piece will be 'how to have a shit after eating toast'



It looks like the guardian is working up to the big one......how to tell its readers with their planet sized egos and their peanut sized brains how to do baked beans on toast


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> They have a Women in Leadership section.  Really. I'm not making this up.
> 
> Today's offering:



I've never heard of her. And I am not angry with her, I don't really care lol


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 10, 2014)

Yes, doing this means taking time out from the day to day admin that takes up so much of our working lives, but nobody got ahead by being really good at filling in a spreadsheet.

We see a desire for fame and recognition as a bad thing but we forget that hardly anyone gets to the top alone. By striking out and building something for themselves these people are also creating employment for others. 

 'wealth creators'


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 10, 2014)

Déjà vu...



> “...He seems to be concerned about his legacy.”



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/m...ter-20-years-in-role-next-summer-9915967.html


----------



## Santino (Dec 10, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Déjà vu...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/m...ter-20-years-in-role-next-summer-9915967.html


I think... I _think_ he's the worst person who ever lived.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 10, 2014)

Alan Rusbridger stepping down as editor after 20 years.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 10, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Déjà vu...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/m...ter-20-years-in-role-next-summer-9915967.html



Oops!


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> They have a Women in Leadership section.  Really. I'm not making this up.
> 
> Today's offering:



Practically an endorsement of having zero integrity as the best route to wealth and fame rather than having actually earned it in some way. Considering some of their other writers, though, this doesn't strike me as a revelation.


----------



## belboid (Dec 10, 2014)

big eejit said:


> Alan Rusbridger stepping down as editor after 20 years.


rejoice


----------



## emanymton (Dec 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> they already ran a how to cook toast article some months back.
> 
> Next it'll be an article on how to make pot noodle


Making a pot noodle edible would be quite an achievement though.


----------



## treelover (Dec 10, 2014)

Polly should apply for the post.


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 10, 2014)

emanymton said:


> Making a pot noodle edible would be quite an achievement though.



Has one advantage though. If you're criminally hungover from the night before then your Pot Noodle will look and smell as appetising coming back up as it did going down.

Personally, I prefer a half-can of last night's flat cider and a slice of pizza or kebab from down the side of the sofa. Breakfast Of Champions.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> And then get it published and paid for.


It writes itself. Whether it's acceptable to have carpet in the toilet, what to call the toilet, what kind of toilet paper to use (reviewed by top shitters), whether the paper goes over or under, reading material, etc etc


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Dec 10, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> It writes itself. Whether it's acceptable to have carpet in the toilet, what to call the toilet, what kind of toilet paper to use (reviewed by top shitters), whether the paper goes over or under, reading material, etc etc




The only thing that the guardian is good for now is a substitute for Andrex but I have found that not only is Andrex better for arse wiping but a roll of Andrex is a better read than the guardian


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 10, 2014)

Do people still buy these newspapers?
I suppose you can't wipe your arse with the internet


----------



## Celyn (Dec 11, 2014)

SikhWarrioR said:


> The only thing that the guardian is good for now is a substitute for Andrex but I have found that not only is Andrex better for arse wiping but a roll of Andrex is a better read than the guardian



And  you get a free Labrador puppy, I think.


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 11, 2014)

The new Guardian website is fucking awful....


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 11, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Do people still buy these newspapers?
> I suppose you can't wipe your arse with the internet



Sad to say that the Guardian even lacks the arse-wiping quality of Socialist Worker.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 11, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2014/dec/06/cleaner-employ-sack-cleaning-schedule-rows



> Every week a Guardian Money reader submits a question, and it’s up to you to help him or her out – a selection of the best answers will appear in next Saturday’s paper.
> 
> This week’s question
> 
> A pay cut means we have had to sack our cleaner to save the £25 a week she cost, but, a month on, nothing’s being cleaned and the house is starting to resemble a squat. We set aside two hours on a Saturday morning but it’s not happening. How do other couples divvy up the cleaning without major rows?


----------



## Coolfonz (Dec 11, 2014)

big eejit said:


> Alan Rusbridger stepping down as editor after 20 years.


Alan Rushbridger who didn't read a letter from Andy Hayman asking him to take his investigative team off the poor souls at Stoke Newington police station but co-incidentally did take his investigative team off the poor souls at Stoke Newington police station? Then found the letter on file when he was asked by the investigative team whether he had taken them off the poor souls at SNPS as a result of a letter from Hayman. But who said he had never seen or read the letter from Hayman? That fucking little shitcunt Alan Rushbridger or another one?


----------



## xenon (Dec 11, 2014)

Maybe ask the cleaner before you decide to dispence with their services.

e2a re J Eds post... Although.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 11, 2014)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2014/dec/06/cleaner-employ-sack-cleaning-schedule-rows



This is bound to go well


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 11, 2014)

Here's a proper cracker. That's not an academic edition or anything but this anti-Semitic loons.

Underneath there's a recconmendation for books that would go well with it. First one: The Establishment by Owen Jones.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Here's a proper cracker. That's not an academic edition or anything but this anti-Semitic loons.
> 
> Underneath there's a recconmendation for books that would go well with it. First one: The Establishment by Owen Jones.



Wtf why is the guardian selling that shit???


----------



## J Ed (Dec 11, 2014)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 11, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Wtf why is the guardian selling that shit???


2012: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jul/17/guardian-observer-report-losses-44m
2013: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/jul/16/guardian-cuts-annual-losses-digital-revenues
2014: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/08/guardian-observer-narrow-losses


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 11, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> 2012: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jul/17/guardian-observer-report-losses-44m
> 2013: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/jul/16/guardian-cuts-annual-losses-digital-revenues
> 2014: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/08/guardian-observer-narrow-losses



Those damn Jews


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 11, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Those damn Jews



Those Red Sea Pedestrians, coming here and taking over our world...


----------



## NoXion (Dec 11, 2014)

I've sent a complaint to them. I'll publish their response here. I'm not expecting much but it should be illustrative in any case.

Fucking making money out of anti-Semitic bile, good fucking grief.


----------



## JTG (Dec 12, 2014)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2014/dec/06/cleaner-employ-sack-cleaning-schedule-rows


It's a tough one for sure. Getting up off your arse and just doing some cleaning is really fucking hard to do


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 12, 2014)

How grim are you that 4 hours work can't clean your house? unless you live in the friggin taj


----------



## rekil (Dec 13, 2014)

Hey parents, stop spoiling your lazy brats and send them round the world. It worked for this privately educated person.


> If I were queen, I would send schoolchildren off into the wilds. They need to break out of our cosy world of convenience and instant access to digital everything, and get active.





> I spent a month of my school holiday one year on a World Challenge trip, trekking across the Mexican desert, climbing to the top of a volcano, picking our way through Guatemalan jungle. We spent time living in a village in the middle of nowhere, helping to redecorate the local school and getting to know how the locals lived.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2014)

copliker said:


> Hey parents, stop spoiling your lazy brats and send them round the world. It worked for this privately educated person.



To be fair my old housemate went to a comp and got to go to a world challenge trip. AFAIK its still got to be sponsored though, she had to raise money for it which is still going to put it out of reach of many people purely on that basis, let alone if their caring for sick relatives etc.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Dec 13, 2014)

I heard about an American couple who said that last year they had gone on a round the world trip. They reported that they would be going "some place else" this year.


----------



## rekil (Dec 13, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> To be fair my old housemate went to a comp and got to go to a world challenge trip. AFAIK its still got to be sponsored though, she had to raise money for it which is still going to put it out of reach of many people purely on that basis, let alone if their caring for sick relatives etc.


She's presenting it as a moral failing rather than something that is just unaffordable because of boring shit like structural inequities.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2014)

copliker said:


> She's presenting it as a moral failing rather than something that is just unaffordable because of boring shit like structural inequities.



That boring shit, who cares?


----------



## The Pale King (Dec 13, 2014)

"...We spent time living in a village in the middle of nowhere, helping to redecorate the local school and getting to know how the locals lived."

Nice combination of ignorance (middle of nowhere) and arrogance (the 'locals' are silent and passive) there. I pity the locals! I am also envisioning a school which gets 'redecorated' by the next batch every few weeks...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 13, 2014)

*tries to imagine passive Mexicans, fails*


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 13, 2014)

In fairness, I once had a student come to me and say that he was in trouble, had no thesis subject and was really worried by the looming deadline. I sat him down and said 'look you must have had to deal with a crisis of some sort in your life before' . . . and he said 'well, when my school was on a tour of Kazakhstan, one of my mates fell half way down a mountain and split his forehead open on some rocks, and I had to help carry him out on a stretcher'. 

Imagine my surprise to discover that there are schools that take their students on tours of former soviet Central asia. I don't think we ever got further than the national musuem in Dublin. 

Anyway, this lad and two of his fellow students set up their own wee NGO working in some remote and neglected part of Kenya, which appears to be still going. There's a whole load wrong with the NGO phenomenon in general, but these kids did at least try to be serious and do their bit, and not just paint the same school over and over again every few weeks, which as The Pale King notes is a real danger with this sort of thing.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> In fairness, I once had a student come to me and say that he was in trouble, had no thesis subject and was really worried by the looming deadline. I sat him down and said 'look you must have had to deal with a crisis of some sort in your life before' . . . and he said 'well, when my school was on a tour of Kazakhstan, one of my mates fell half way down a mountain and split his forehead open on some rocks, and I had to help carry him out on a stretcher'.
> 
> Imagine my surprise to discover that there are schools that take their students on tours of former soviet Central asia. I don't think we ever got further than the national musuem in Dublin.
> 
> Anyway, this lad and two of his fellow students set up their own wee NGO working in some remote and neglected part of Kenya, which appears to be still going. There's a whole load wrong with the NGO phenomenon in general, but these kids did at least try to be serious and do their bit, and not just paint the same school over and over again every few weeks, which as The Pale King notes is a real danger with this sort of thing.



I have a lot to say about this. Out at an ice skating show about to start in a sec So later


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 13, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> In fairness, I once had a student come to me and say that he was in trouble, had no thesis subject and was really worried by the looming deadline. I sat him down and said 'look you must have had to deal with a crisis of some sort in your life before' . . . and he said 'well, when my school was on a tour of Kazakhstan, one of my mates fell half way down a mountain and split his forehead open on some rocks, and I had to help carry him out on a stretcher'.
> 
> Imagine my surprise to discover that there are schools that take their students on tours of former soviet Central asia. I don't think we ever got further than the national musuem in Dublin.
> 
> Anyway, this lad and two of his fellow students set up their own wee NGO working in some remote and neglected part of Kenya, which appears to be still going. There's a whole load wrong with the NGO phenomenon in general, but these kids did at least try to be serious and do their bit, and not just paint the same school over and over again every few weeks, which as The Pale King notes is a real danger with this sort of thing.



I know a few people that work for or helped set up NGOs doing this type of thing, most of them are not from rich gap yah backgrounds.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Wtf why is the guardian selling that shit???


It's still up there. I've just tweeted them.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 13, 2014)

I think we can all agree that at its heart the true meaning of Christmas is anti-semitism


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 13, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> I think we can all agree that at its heart the true meaning of Christmas is anti-semitism



Is that not Easter you're thinking of?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 13, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Is that not Easter you're thinking of?


You seem to know a lot about anti-semitism


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 13, 2014)

Well, I do live in Germany, don't forget.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 13, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> Well, I do live in Germany, don't forget.


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 13, 2014)




----------



## NoXion (Dec 13, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> It's still up there. I've just tweeted them.



I've not had a reply since contacting them. Do let us know what their reply is to you, if they deign to.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2014)

NoXion said:


> I've not had a reply since contacting them. Do let us know what their reply is to you, if they deign to.


Will do. I thought they'd be more likely to respond to a tweet, but nothing so far, curiously.


----------



## seventh bullet (Dec 13, 2014)

Idris2002 said:


> In fairness, I once had a student come to me and say that he was in trouble, had no thesis subject and was really worried by the looming deadline. I sat him down and said 'look you must have had to deal with a crisis of some sort in your life before' . . . and he said 'well, when my school was on a tour of Kazakhstan, one of my mates fell half way down a mountain and split his forehead open on some rocks, and I had to help carry him out on a stretcher'.
> 
> Imagine my surprise to discover that there are schools that take their students on tours of former soviet Central asia. I don't think we ever got further than the national musuem in Dublin.
> 
> Anyway, this lad and two of his fellow students set up their own wee NGO working in some remote and neglected part of Kenya, which appears to be still going. There's a whole load wrong with the NGO phenomenon in general, but these kids did at least try to be serious and do their bit, and not just paint the same school over and over again every few weeks, which as The Pale King notes is a real danger with this sort of thing.



I've met those types.  It's anecdotal and probably unfair but invariably they have indeed been 'brats' with no self-awareness of how they've managed to be in a position to do that kind of thing.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 14, 2014)

Still up there.

I've read well and i've read deep and i think i've found the reason why:

“We must create ferments, discords and hostility. . . .The principal factor of success in the political is the secrecy of its undertakings. . . .We must compel the governments of the goyim to take action in the direction favored by our widely conceived plan. . .by what we shall represent as public opinion, secretly promoted by us through the means of that so-called 'great power' - the press, which with a few exceptions that may be disregarded, is already entirely in our hands. “

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, protocol #7

So it's to signal to _racial comrades_ that they are among that press _remnant _that may not be disregarded


----------



## The Boy (Dec 14, 2014)

Perhaps not in keeping with the tone of the thread, but have an end-of-year compendium of entries in Pseuds' Corner, all on the subject of food.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/14/best-thing-i-ate-in-2014


----------



## JTG (Dec 14, 2014)

The Boy said:


> Perhaps not in keeping with the tone of the thread, but have an end-of-year compendium of entries in Pseuds' Corner, all on the subject of food.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/14/best-thing-i-ate-in-2014





> Allan Jenkins
> _Editor, Observer Food Monthly
> The most memorable, if perhaps not the best, thing I ate: the live langoustine at Noma this summer. It arrived on ice, twitching. I started wriggling uncomfortably, too. “It’s alive?” I said quietly. “Just nerves,” came the gnomic Nordic reply. Then its legs moved, and its antenna. I tried to pull off its tail. It resisted. I tried to bite and it leapt alarmingly in my mouth. “Please don’t!” it almost whispered. Its tail had been flayed, like in Game of Thrones; it was nearly dead but didn’t know it. I split its delicious skull and sucked it. Death happens. Meat is murder._



Utterly vile


----------



## Flavour (Dec 14, 2014)

*"The other day I saw one of our chefs, Davide di Fabio, coming back from the market with a box of black bananas. “They were free,” he said, “just sitting next to the trash.” Two days later he called me over to his quiet corner of the kitchen. “Does this remind you of anything?” I glanced at the black banana peel on the white plate and then I touched it. It wasn’t peel but ice-cream moulded into that shape. “Does this remind you of anything?” he asked me again. It took me a minute and then I shouted, “Warhol!” I’d found the original mono version of the Velvet Underground’s first album with Warhol’s name and banana peel on the cover in a used record store in New York. I’d brought it into the kitchen a week ago to show the team. I drew my finger across the plate severing the banana peel diagonally. I closed my eyes. Grilled, blackened banana-peel ice-cream with an intense smoky aftertaste and a creamy texture. I swiped my finger across it again. There was something else in there, too, something chewy and salty. I looked closely at the plate and there it was – seaweed. I couldn’t help but smile. I wasn’t eating discarded banana peels but trash ice-cream. And it was divine.”*

Bullets made of organic sourdough fermented in tea-tree oil with coriander and seal jizz wouldn't be too good for him


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2014)

Flavour said:


> *"The other day I saw one of our chefs, Davide di Fabio, coming back from the market with a box of black bananas. “They were free,” he said, “just sitting next to the trash.” Two days later he called me over to his quiet corner of the kitchen. “Does this remind you of anything?” I glanced at the black banana peel on the white plate and then I touched it. It wasn’t peel but ice-cream moulded into that shape. “Does this remind you of anything?” he asked me again. It took me a minute and then I shouted, “Warhol!” I’d found the original mono version of the Velvet Underground’s first album with Warhol’s name and banana peel on the cover in a used record store in New York. I’d brought it into the kitchen a week ago to show the team. I drew my finger across the plate severing the banana peel diagonally. I closed my eyes. Grilled, blackened banana-peel ice-cream with an intense smoky aftertaste and a creamy texture. I swiped my finger across it again. There was something else in there, too, something chewy and salty. I looked closely at the plate and there it was – seaweed. I couldn’t help but smile. I wasn’t eating discarded banana peels but trash ice-cream. And it was divine.”*
> 
> Bullets made of organic sourdough fermented in tea-tree oil with coriander and seal jizz wouldn't be too good for him




where do they find these people


----------



## el-ahrairah (Dec 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> where do they find these people



and why can't they leave them there.


----------



## JTG (Dec 15, 2014)

Anyone have any idea wtf this article is actually trying to say? Was White pissed when he wrote it?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...just-labour-jim-murphy-scotland-michael-white


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 15, 2014)

JTG said:


> Anyone have any idea wtf this article is actually trying to say? Was White pissed when he wrote it?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...just-labour-jim-murphy-scotland-michael-white



I think he's vaguely trying to say "I'm very pleased they picked Jim Murphy, because his politics are as horrible as mine"


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> where do they find these people


In their bubble.

Still selling the protocols of the elders of zion


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 15, 2014)

Set up a dedicated bit for things, but make sure that you don't have have the people there to even update the site via twitter .


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Set up a dedicated bit for things, but make sure that you don't have have the people there to even update the site via twitter .



Going down the pan au shock-a-lot, not real news in not real time but click hits about beardies. Measured journalism, a Muslamical and a sex pest to boot. What's not to like?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 15, 2014)

Buckaroo said:


> Going down the pan au shock-a-lot, not real news in not real time but click hits about beardies. Measured journalism, a Muslamical and a sex pest to boot. What's not to like?


...and the unpaid intern has walked of. The crucial 30 minutes and they wandered off, try a few doors


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> ...and the unpaid intern has walked of. The crucial 30 minutes and they wandered off, try a few doors



There's more where they came from. You get what you pay for. Next!


----------



## J Ed (Dec 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> ...and the unpaid intern has walked of. The crucial 30 minutes and they wandered off, try a few doors



Unpaid internships rig the system. Curb them, now

BTW I note the BTL comments implying that Graunid interns are paid. They aren't. I know someone who won (won!) a Graunid internship because of his journalism in the uni paper and got a few articles in the paper. He wasn't paid.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 15, 2014)

Following the NUJ’s assertion that advertising positions for unpaid interns should be made illegal, Axegrinder’s thoughts immediately turned to The Guardian.

Last month it published a blog headlined Join the fight against unpaid internships which prompted Private Eye to cry foul after noting that The Guardian advertises a ‘Positive action work placement scheme’, which offers two-week work experience slots to budding journalists.

Oh well, at least student author Libby Page will have earned a few quid from The Guardian for her 700-word piece. But alas no, Axegrinder learns.

Asked about it (via Twitter) she said: “Sadly no. Unpaid articles in my spare time whilst I build my portfolio is different to working set hours for free".

But she added: "Although that said, of course payment for my writing would be great."


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 16, 2014)

Why dyed armpit hair is 2015s most subversive trend.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 17, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Unpaid internships rig the system. Curb them, now
> 
> BTW I note the BTL comments implying that Graunid interns are paid. They aren't. I know someone who won (won!) a Graunid internship because of his journalism in the uni paper and got a few articles in the paper. He wasn't paid.


I agree that unpaid internships are a problem, but for most working class kids internships paid or otherwise are simply not an issue.


----------



## Jean-Luc (Dec 17, 2014)

This article and repudiation they were obliged to publish (scroll down) should be part of this dossier:

http://www.theguardian.com/environm...to-thalidomide-and-asbestos-in-walport-report



> The Guardian article that linked fracking with thalidomide and asbestos is a florid example of what my report argued most strongly against. It confuses arguments about science with value propositions. It selected one sentence from one evidence paper, quoted it in part, and in doing so misrepresented both the report and indeed the evidence paper itself. This has been picked up in a careless fashion by other news channels and by social media and subjected to a hopefully brief period of amplification. In doing so, the article debased an important discussion about future energy supplies – and, at least as importantly, it devalues science journalism. I am glad however, that the Guardian has allowed me to express my own voice adjacent to the offending piece of journalism.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 21, 2014)

Solipsistic drivel:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/20/city-versus-country-childhoods?CMP=fb_gu


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 21, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Solipsistic drivel:
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/20/city-versus-country-childhoods?CMP=fb_gu


I like white bread better than brown. Also extras mature cheese. And cold toast. Can i have my money now?


----------



## rekil (Dec 24, 2014)




----------



## butchersapron (Dec 24, 2014)

20 reasons why you should sex your mum - you might get a job on the paper

We're out of material.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 24, 2014)

I sexed my mum


----------



## rekil (Dec 24, 2014)

"Bangkok SEX hotel"


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 24, 2014)

There is a reason btw.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 24, 2014)

copliker said:


> "Bangkok SEX hotel"



Weber.Got.Him Wooah. that was  a travel-journey. Some people life cheap.


----------



## rekil (Dec 24, 2014)

This is his exasperated agent going 'hey that bangkok sex hotel story, the G might run it, leave it to me, sit back, and wait for the call from Casualty' right?

'handsome struggling actor in last ditch clickbait mercy dash'


----------



## Celyn (Dec 24, 2014)

Oh now, be fair.  Nobody has ever mentioned sex in Bangkok before.  Ever.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 24, 2014)

a new low


----------



## brogdale (Dec 25, 2014)




----------



## emanymton (Dec 25, 2014)

Is that fucking real?

And just what are they floting in? Looks a bit ... milky.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 25, 2014)

emanymton said:


> Is that fucking real?



yep; real in guardianworld


----------



## rekil (Dec 27, 2014)

Milne mugged by vatican opus dei PR goon.



"The pontiff has emerged as a global champion of social justice, denouncing the tyranny of the market and condemning inequality as the root of social evil"

"an Argentinian pope whose record under his country’s dictatorship was less than heroic."

Not to mention his refusal to cooperate with the relatives of the disappeared for 30+ years.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 27, 2014)

Not exactly a friend to women who need to have abortions nor to Spanish democracy given his beatification of the 522 pro-fascist clerics and hangers on who were purged during the Spanish Civil War.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 27, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Not exactly a friend to women who need to have abortions nor to Spanish democracy given his beatification of the 522 pro-fascist clerics and hangers on who were purged during the Spanish Civil War.



Indeed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 27, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Why dyed armpit hair is 2015s most subversive trend.


i've been dying mine for years


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> i've been dying mine for years


"*...pictures or STFU*."


----------



## teqniq (Dec 27, 2014)

brogdale said:


> "*...pictures or STFU*."


No, please no....


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 27, 2014)

brogdale said:


> "*...pictures or STFU*."


later, darling. i'm not taking a picture of my pits on the bus.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 27, 2014)

teqniq said:


> No, please no....


tvor


----------



## teqniq (Dec 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> later, darling. i'm not taking a picture of my pits on the bus.



*breathes sigh of relief*


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> later, darling. i'm not taking a picture of my pits on the bus.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 27, 2014)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 65665


like that only blond with a tattoo of voltairine de cleyre


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> like that only blond with a tattoo of voltairine de cleyre



Nice. Look forward to the _*promised *_pic!


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2014)

francis gets an easy ride from baptists of my acquaintance cos he isn't natzinger, he's invited gardeners and papal lowly staff to come pray with him, eschews the pomp to some degree etc etc.

Pretty sure that ones in the papal hand book 'every so often a pope must wear the brown homespun robe and assume the demeanor of the servant-priest'


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> francis gets an easy ride from baptists of my acquaintance cos he isn't natzinger, he's invited gardeners and papal lowly staff to come pray with him, eschews the pomp to some degree etc etc.
> 
> Pretty sure that ones in the papal hand book 'every so often a pope must wear the brown homespun robe and assume the demeanor of the servant-priest'



Loving his 15 ailments of the curia shtick. Seems to have missed a few but these two are up there.
Committing the “terrorism of gossip”. “It’s the sickness of cowardly people who, not having the courage to speak directly, talk behind people’s backs.”
Glorifying one’s bosses. “It’s the sickness of those who court their superiors, hoping for their benevolence. They are victims of careerism and opportunism, they honour people who aren’t God.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...thing-critique-vatican-officials-curia-speech


----------



## J Ed (Dec 27, 2014)

Dear fellow white people: Keep protesting police violence. Just don't throw bottles from the back

Shouldn't that US liberal's headline be 'Dear undercover police'?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2014)

#Ithrowbottlesfromtheback.


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 27, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> and why can't they leave them there.



I can think of a nice cultural excursion, preferably permanent:


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2014)

Deborah bores:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...yfolk-the-rural-hipster-may-soon-be-among-you


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 28, 2014)

Me? I make no apologies. I’m the Typhoid Mary of gentrification. I leave middle-class prosperity in my wake, like the Capitalism Fairy. Both of the places where I used to live in London are now gentrified beyond recognition. I’m in Stockwell now, and have been for 18 years, watching it not-changing around me. The day I move out – that’ll be the day the faux-Dickensian hardware store moves in, with its faux-Dickensian leaseholder. Hopefully.


Arrrgh


----------



## J Ed (Dec 28, 2014)

Power to the liberal intelligentsia's gentrification!


----------



## el-ahrairah (Dec 30, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...lds-lab-disguised-as-a-hipster-cafe?CMP=fb_gu

a very confused piece.  guardian writers often have trouble with things like mcdonalds, because they know that they should hate it, but they also don't want to be seen hating it, in case people think they're snobs or anti-capitalists.  but they don't want to praise it either, in case people think they're plebs or cheerleaders for the industrial meat complex.  and they have much the same about hipsters,  they don't want to be seen either being in favour of or actively against hipsters.  so we learn from this piece that this is a really good thing and not much cop all at once.  that mcdonalds is Not Good but also ideal if you want to eat McDonalds for any reason.

like laurie penny, they don't want anyone to disagree with them but they can't stand the idea of no talking about something!


----------



## tbtommyb (Dec 30, 2014)

it seems like every Guardian talking head article title is 'Why xyz should/shouldn't apologise for abc'. who gives a fuck?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2014)

giving space to this maggot in order to let the reader feel justified in sending the kids private:

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/dec/31/labour-class-war-private-schools


----------



## tbtommyb (Dec 31, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> giving space to this maggot in order to let the reader feel justified in sending the kids private:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/dec/31/labour-class-war-private-schools


Also serves to present Hunt's views as anything more than a total cop-out, shifting the space for discussion rightwards. cf. U.S. Republican attitudes to healthcare.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2014)

What's it got to do with US attitudes to healthcare?

I don't understand any of that post.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 31, 2014)

No shit.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 31, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> What's it got to do with US attitudes to healthcare?
> 
> I don't understand any of that post.



I think he is comparing the attitudes towards the Affordable Healthcare Act and the portrayal of it as being very left-wing, socialist, communist or whatever in the US to Hunt's remarkably timid approach to private schools. If we're considering tax breaks for private schools as the left-wing position, and not the abolition of these schools, then the discussion has moved rightwards.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2014)

Does that beat the sheer banality of:






The text, literally, was "I tumbled for what felt like for ever'" - putting penny's _london is a city of contrasts stuff  _to shame.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2014)

how to make and eat toast (two separate articles) has been my fave in the banality stakes this year


----------



## brogdale (Dec 31, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Does that beat the sheer banality of:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair-play...but "2015 has begun" must be up there with "the sun has risen again" as a 'news' story?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2014)

J Ed said:


> I think he is comparing the attitudes towards the Affordable Healthcare Act and the portrayal of it as being very left-wing, socialist, communist or whatever in the US to Hunt's remarkably timid approach to private schools. If we're considering tax breaks for private schools as the left-wing position, and not the abolition of these schools, then the discussion has moved rightwards.


Ta. The first sentence is odd still. 

The elite discussion has moved nowhere - and there's no we in _this_. There's one privately educated oxbridge elite boy telling a recipient of sponsored mobility that they slightly disagree on something that means nothing.


----------



## rekil (Dec 31, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> giving space to this maggot in order to let the reader feel justified in sending the kids private:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/dec/31/labour-class-war-private-schools


They push privatised education guff all the time.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2014)

Profit-with-purpose



> Unless we develop an intimate connection between the need for profit and the creation of value for (at least a part of) society, we will all be missing out. Until then, we'll be driving towards short-term objectives, creating placeholders that don't provide real meaning, 'motivating' people with mechanisms that create an inward looking mindset that will never be satisfied



The inventors of the term.



> The dominant story that we are told about poverty is that these people live hand-to-mouth – a storyline that leads us to treat people as passive beneficiaries rather than agents. In fact, 85% of low-income people are emerging consumers, willing and able to pay for essential products and services, if only offered, to help them to rise out of poverty and into the middle class.
> 
> The greatest untapped opportunity for businesses, and for society, is to serve this immense market. Our team pursues and fulfils this opportunity every day. We call it Profit-with-Purpose





> LeapFrog is now one of the world’s largest impact investment funds. We hope that our ongoing successes will help open the gates of the capital markets ever wider. Only then will there be the entry of sufficient private resources and talent to drive financial services to a point where, on an unprecedented scale, we end cycles of poverty.





> If we as a global community can do that, we will have fulfilled our distinctive epochal promise. We will be able to say not just that the poor are bankable but that the poor are investors. They can access capital and financial instruments, they can take risks and generate rewards; they can shape their destiny rather than it being shaped by powers beyond them. That was the promise of the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution, but now for the first time it could be realised not for the few and developed societies but the many and developing societies.


----------



## killer b (Dec 31, 2014)

stabstabstab


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 31, 2014)

Whom do you want to stab? #3356 foolishly conflated a stupid and platitudinous piece about CSR and employee/customer engagement with a piece of collateral championing emerging market investment, just because the same three word headline was used. You're better than that, though - presumably you don't stab indiscriminately.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2014)

willing and able to pay for essential products and services


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Whom do you want to stab? #3356 foolishly conflated a stupid and platitudinous piece about CSR and employee/customer engagement with a piece of collateral championing emerging market investment, just because the same three word headline was used. You're better than that, though - presumably you don't stab indiscriminately.


You presumably - and anyone else who has made the choice to describe themselves  - in public to strangers - as _arch_.


----------



## killer b (Dec 31, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Whom do you want to stab?


both of them.


----------



## rekil (Dec 31, 2014)

> Born and raised in South Africa, Andrew "profit with purpose" Kuper was educated at Cambridge, Harvard, and the University of the Witwatersrand. He holds a PhD from Cambridge, where he was supervised by Economics Nobel laureate Amartya Sen and ethicist Baroness Onora O'Neill. He is the author of two acclaimed books on globalization and governance.


These are a few of my least favourite things.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 31, 2014)

Rather handily the state produces potential stabstabstab lists.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Whom do you want to stab? #3356 foolishly conflated a stupid and platitudinous piece about CSR and employee/customer engagement with a piece of collateral championing emerging market investment, just because the same three word headline was used. You're better than that, though - presumably you don't stab indiscriminately.


Do you know what your factual error in this post was? Not the subjective adjective heavy stuff you seem to imagine denotes arch or some form of arch _style_, but the real error.


----------



## Santino (Dec 31, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Do you know what your factual error in this post was? Not the subjective adjective heavy stuff you seem to imagine denotes arch or some form of arch _style_, but the real error.


Is it that killer b ISN'T better than that?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Rather handily the state produces potential stabstabstab lists.


Jon Hurt will be made up


----------



## killer b (Dec 31, 2014)

Santino said:


> Is it that killer b ISN'T better than that?


I fear Maurice has me all wrong.


----------



## rekil (Jan 1, 2015)

http://bookshop.theguardian.com/protocols-of-the-learned-elders-of-zion.html

"404 not found"

First #activism victory of the new year. Well played everyone who badgered the fuckers.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 2, 2015)

A Tory-Labour unity coalition may be the only way forward after 7 May this is loathsome but it doesn't even make any sense 

No discussion even of the polling that would make any kind of coalition likely. Total drivel.


----------



## JTG (Jan 2, 2015)

J Ed said:


> A Tory-Labour unity coalition may be the only way forward after 7 May this is loathsome but it doesn't even make any sense
> 
> No discussion even of the polling that would make any kind of coalition likely. Total drivel.


I came on here to post that! Utter cockrot


----------



## brogdale (Jan 2, 2015)

JTG said:


> I came on here to post that! Utter cockrot





> Elections are a form of crowdsourcing, the wisdom of crowds ensuring the result reflects national desire.



ffs


----------



## treelover (Jan 2, 2015)

The above is appalling by Birrell, but todays Guardian(print) had a front page article by a sacked City Link worker, (RMT) who has three generations of his family working there till now, got to be something positive in that?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 2, 2015)

Post it on _Hurrah for the Guardian_  thread then.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 2, 2015)

J Ed said:


> A Tory-Labour unity coalition may be the only way forward after 7 May this is loathsome but it doesn't even make any sense
> 
> No discussion even of the polling that would make any kind of coalition likely. Total drivel.


Would the author of that piece, Ian Birrell, be the former _Sunday Times_ journalist of the same name whose career highlights have included being a mouthpiece for the Metropolitan Police Special Branch in its attempts to plant anti-Red Action stories on just about any topic?


----------



## tbtommyb (Jan 2, 2015)

J Ed said:


> A Tory-Labour unity coalition may be the only way forward after 7 May this is loathsome but it doesn't even make any sense
> 
> No discussion even of the polling that would make any kind of coalition likely. Total drivel.


drivel but i would find that outcome quite amusing.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 2, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> drivel but i would find that outcome quite amusing.


Yeah?


----------



## J Ed (Jan 3, 2015)

Shilling for a power hungry, warmongering, right-wing member of a political dynasty on the basis that she is a woman.


----------



## Celyn (Jan 4, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Shilling for a power hungry, warmongering, right-wing member of a political dynasty on the basis that she is a woman.



He also seems to think that pretty much everybody uses "old woman" as an insult, which I really don't think is true, so it's a very clickbaity headline.


----------



## youngian (Jan 4, 2015)

Jesus the Guardian has a tittle-tattle problems page. Written by Mariella Frostrup on the back of her many empty fag packets



> Dear Mariella
> * My long-distance girlfriend doesn’t want me *
> A 23-year-old man fears for his future with his French girlfriend: he loves her but she doesn’t seem so sure. Mariella Frostrup says it might be time to say adieu





> andyoldlabour
> Guardian, do you really see yourself as a rather less capable version of the "Bunty" comic which my sister read at the age of ten?
> Man fancies girl, but the girl is not interested - move on.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 4, 2015)

Celyn said:


> He also seems to think that pretty much everybody uses "old woman" as an insult, which I really don't think is true, so it's a very clickbaity headline.



And that nobody insults men on the basis of age.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 4, 2015)

JTG said:


> I came on here to post that! Utter cockrot


Birrell used to write speeches for Spamface and it shows.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 4, 2015)

youngian said:


> Jesus the Guardian has a tittle-tattle problems page. Written by Mariella Frostrup on the back of her many empty fag packets



And why shouldn't it? It's a thing that newspapers do, people enjoy reading it, and Frostrup's responses to the (presumably fabulated) dilemmas are usually fairly sensible.


----------



## youngian (Jan 4, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> And why shouldn't it? It's a thing that newspapers do, people enjoy reading it, and Frostrup's responses to the (presumably fabulated) dilemmas are usually fairly sensible.


The thread is called "Why the Guardian is going down the pan!" and as the quoted commenter pointed out you can find the same bluff common sense from a hack who once wrote for Bunty. So why not buy TV Quick instead of the Guardian? You wouldn't have to put up with Nick Watt either.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 4, 2015)

Does TV Quick give that kind of wisdom away for free, though?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2015)

Self regarding tossers agogo:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/03/how-i-gave-up-being-grumpy?CMP=fb_gu


----------



## paolo (Jan 5, 2015)

pseudo code redux:

{Something about a restaurant review I didn't like}|{Polly Toynbee}|!{PressHack}|!{MurdochFold}|!{NSA}}

The sooner it get's down to the Telegraph and the Times, the better, eh? Guardian, what cunts. GET RID! Toynbee or Rayner FFS! Bring on Allied and Newscorp!


----------



## paolo (Jan 5, 2015)

There's a serious question behind my flippancy:

Do you see the Guardian as, say...

Losing it's way?

or maybe

Never was valid, never is still?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2015)

never was valid, same as the labour party was never as good as people say it was. Always a brake, always a 'steady on lads'


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2015)

paolo said:


> There's a serious question behind my flippancy:
> 
> Do you see the Guardian as, say...
> 
> ...


The point being that in many ways The Guardian is worse than The Times or Telegraph, because the people running it claim to be on our side.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

Santino said:


> The point being that in many ways The Guardian is worse than The Times or Telegraph, because the people running it claim to be on our side.



They claim to be progressives. That can mean anything at all. I suspect that if you set out a definition of what your side is, and of the interests that oppose it, Rusbridger and his acolytes would not claim common cause with you.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2015)

And?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2015)

I wonder why the _what film did you watch last night_ thread isn't full of posters listing what albums they last listened to and demanding the thread be about albums posters have listened to? Anyone got any ideas why this might be the case?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

Santino said:


> And?



Well, that's up to you. Normal etiquette, when you post something which is then rebutted by someone else, is either to respond with an immediate counter-rebuttal or to strategically ignore it and move onto something else. Your response is unusual.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2015)

Since when has suspecting that something might happen if something that hasn't happened did happen counted as a rebuttal?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

Santino said:


> Since when has suspecting that something might happen if something that hasn't happened did happen counted as a rebuttal?



The onus is on you. Define your side, and then provide evidence that the "world's leading liberal voice" claims to be on it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Well, that's up to you. Normal etiquette, when you post something which is then rebutted by someone else, is either to respond with an immediate counter-rebuttal or to strategically ignore it and move onto something else. Your response is unusual.


Christ, you are a pompous so and so


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2015)

It's got nothing to do with how I define 'my' side. They claim - they may sometimes _believe_ - that they are on the side of people against vested interests.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

Santino said:


> It's got nothing to do with how I define 'my' side. They claim - they may sometimes _believe_ - that they are on the side of people against vested interests.



Where?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

There might well be vested interests which would conflict with actors which view themselves as progressive and liberal, but they might be popular ones. Unions, say, or churches.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2015)

Anyone else reminded of the _unhinged _Blair butting in on Iraq around June last year and all giving everyone else the benefit of his experience in the region?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Christ, you are a pompous so and so



it's the only language he understands.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Where?


I suspect that if you wrote to Alan Rusbridger and asked him to confirm that his paper was on the side of the people against vested interests, then he would do so. And then play the piano for a bit.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 5, 2015)

> *Right now, 2015 is all about open shirts...*


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2015)

check out the 'six worst jobs' article. Other than dog food taster they are all fairly normal people jobs


----------



## fishfinger (Jan 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> check out the 'six worst jobs' article. Other than dog food taster they are all fairly normal people jobs


I'd rather be a dog food taster than a shopping channel presenter.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2015)

My brother used to do crime scene clean up for Boing! who contract to northants police. Its dirty work but 'worst job'? and as for taking teens out- loads of people do that job and like it. Right old sneer of an article


----------



## Jay Park (Jan 5, 2015)

could have nipped over to Qatar and seen what a Bengali's workday looks like.....


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2015)

Jay Park said:


> could have nipped over to Qatar and seen what a Bengali's workday looks like.....




ennit, or to any south east asian SEZ


----------



## Jay Park (Jan 5, 2015)

i've gotten so used to reading bollocks on the Guardian site, it didn't even register before - television presenter w/ starting salary of 30,000 the 5th worst job in UK. Right.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

Santino said:


> I suspect that if you wrote to Alan Rusbridger and asked him to confirm that his paper was on the side of the people against vested interests, then he would do so. And then play the piano for a bit.



Might be worth asking John Witherow as well, as a control. You'd probably get the same answer, or lack of one.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

Santino said:


> I suspect that if you wrote to Alan Rusbridger and asked him to confirm that his paper was on the side of the people against vested interests, then he would do so. And then play the piano for a bit.



On the other hand, though, this thread took off because of the Guardian's support for the junior coalition party in 2010.

And in the infamous Hurrah for the Yellowshirts editorial, Rusbridger (for it was surely he) said:



> they have remained true to liberal values and human rights in ways that the other parties, Labour more than the Tories in some respects, have not. They are less tied to reactionary and sectional class interests than either of the other parties.



I wonder where "the people" stops and where "a reactionary and sectional class interest" begins. It doesn't sound like unqualified support for the workers by hand and brain against the bosses.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 5, 2015)

The Indie, meanwhile is a neo-Aristotelian, semi-consequentialist, Whig radical. It really is. Whether that puts it on the same side as the peevish and gloomy toiler in academic saltmines is moot.


----------



## JTG (Jan 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> and as for taking teens out- loads of people do that job and like it. Right old sneer of an article


While I wouldn't claim to do anything as challenging as outdoor activities for young teenagers, I find myself in charge of groups of 18-20 year olds every summer, often asking them to do jobs they have no previous experience of and face situations many of them find daunting. Lots of them are students, many of them haven't done much in the way of paid work let alone anything that expects them to take a little responsibility.

It can be frustrating but ultimately rewarding to see people grow, take on challenges and work things out for themselves. I really enjoy doing it.


----------



## killer b (Jan 5, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Rusbridger said:
> 
> 
> 
> > They are less tied to reactionary and sectional class interests than either of the other parties.


This bit is incredible.


----------



## killer b (Jan 5, 2015)

FWIW though, I think Rusbridger is likely of a similar view to Billy Bragg, that class politics is all so last century. So he's on your side, if only you'd accept that the sides are drawn up differently to reality, and from the head of a bubble-ensconced liberal.


----------



## lolo (Jan 5, 2015)

well for the first time ever the editor in chief job is an open application so i think we should all apply...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2015)

lolo said:


> well for the first time ever the editor in chief job is an open application so i think we should all apply...


sure, one of us must get the post

unless it's an inside job


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2015)

lolo said:


> well for the first time ever the editor in chief job is an open application so i think we should all apply...


but why? if one of us did get the job then i think what happened to the pope in 1978 would soon happen to the successful candidate.


----------



## lolo (Jan 5, 2015)

i was being light hearted  -obvs not the correct thread for this, stay angry, as you were


----------



## JTG (Jan 5, 2015)

Was going to be snarky about yet another blow-in banging on about 'localism' in Bristol here:

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...-bristol-graffiti-covers-the-city-head-to-toe

But then I saw a commenter had put it far better than I could have done



> Bristol does indeed have an "obsession with localism", but as other comments have pointed out local Bristolians seem to get short shrift. When we moved to Bishopston in 1997 it was still common to hear local accents. Today it seems that most of the Bristolians in the area have been replaced by middle-class blow-ins like myself.
> 
> I'm not obsessed with localism, so I while I lament the change I also see it as a natural progression in a dynamic city. But I often wonder how my localism-obsessed neighbours can campaign vigorously for more local shops etc, while ignoring the fact that their increasing presence and influence is destroying a truly unique local entity -- the urban Bristolian.
> 
> A classic example of this is the ongoing ding-dong between Bishopston "locals" hell-bent on preventing the supermarket redevelopment of the Bristol Rovers ground, and Rovers' Bristolian supporters, who thanks to the campaign's success can look forward to a bleak future for their club. In this case, localism seems to be all about protecting the interests of businesses that serve largely a middle-class blow-in clientele at the expense of a century-old local institution.



It's not entirely accurate (the scheme isn't dead yet), but does sum up the feelings of an awful lot of born and bred w/c Bristolians


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2015)

Awesome wells spotted in the comments - falling for some racist shit stirring about _no whites_ signs in somali cafes and moaning about the buses.


----------



## killer b (Jan 5, 2015)

it's good he's keeping busy.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Awesome wells spotted in the comments - falling for some racist shit stirring about _no whites_ signs in somali cafes and moaning about the buses.





killer b said:


> it's good he's keeping busy.


...somewhere else.


----------



## JTG (Jan 6, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Awesome wells spotted in the comments - falling for some racist shit stirring about _no whites_ signs in somali cafes and moaning about the buses.


Remarkable to me how so many people manage to describe a Stapleton Road completely at variance with the one I walk up and down twice a day

Anyway - Easton, St Pauls, St Werburghs, Stokes Croft... what a vast swathe of Bristol our hero covers in his article. He expresses concern at the divisions in the city but seems unable to even mention Southmead, Lockleaze or Hartcliffe by name. Nice one Guardian for getting a new arrival to describe his city though - not sure they'd like mine so much


----------



## brogdale (Jan 6, 2015)

> *Deflated Clegg back to full size as he hurtles towards margins of significance*
> Deputy prime minister has passed through his darkest hours to a state of gallows humour as coalition comes to an end
> 
> Clegg is a changed man. Late last year, he appeared to be shrinking daily and it seemed he would soon need help to climb on to the front benches. Now he has returned to almost full-size.
> ...



oh my aching sides


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 6, 2015)

JTG said:


> Remarkable to me how so many people manage to describe a Stapleton Road completely at variance with the one I walk up and down twice a day



Yeah but BRITAIN'S MOST DANGEROUS STREET!11!1!!!


----------



## JTG (Jan 6, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Yeah but BRITAIN'S MOST DANGEROUS STREET!11!1!!!


Groups of Somali men _hanging around_


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 6, 2015)

lads all lads


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 6, 2015)

JTG said:


> Groups of Somali men _hanging around_


_Youths_ up to _no good_


----------



## J Ed (Jan 7, 2015)

Graunid headline describes human beings as 'bedblockers'


----------



## benedict (Jan 8, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Graunid headline describes human beings as 'bedblockers'



Putting the term in inverted commas, while highlighting the systematic problems underlying the phenomenon - as outlined in the article - and relating it to marketization of social care.

Actually seems like one of the Guardian's better bits of output.


----------



## JTG (Jan 8, 2015)

benedict said:


> Putting the term in inverted commas, while highlighting the systematic problems underlying the phenomenon - as outlined in the article - and relating it to marketization of social care.
> 
> Actually seems like one of the Guardian's better bits of output.


Yeah, it's using NHS slang for them, I don't see it as something to complain at the Guardian about

I suspect some of you would be shocked at the way we talk about our jobs and the patients in my work


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 8, 2015)

The Guardian's rolling Paris shootings coverage features a minute's video of commemorative silence at the morning editorial conference, Rusbridger even gazing away from his iphone at one point. Later, it reported excitedly that security arrangements at Kings Place would possibly be reviewed.

Yes, keeping a rolling blog fresh is difficult, especially when there's little new information and much of it is unreliable (the blog reported last night that the suspects had been nicked). But you're a news _organisation_. You're not _news_. You're not intrinsically interesting. Learn the difference.


----------



## JTG (Jan 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> The Guardian's rolling Paris shootings coverage this morning included a minute's video of a one minute silence at the morning editorial conference, Rusbridger even gazing away from his iphone at one point. Later, it reported excitedly that security arrangements at Kings Place would possibly be reviewed.
> 
> Yes, keeping a rolling blog fresh is difficult, especially when there's little new information and much of it is unreliable (the blog reported last night that the suspects had been nicked). But you're a news _organisation_. You're not _news_. You're not intrinsically interesting. Learn the difference.


Journalists like feeling important bless 'em


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> Journalists like feeling important bless 'em



as if the guardian has ever failed to bend it's knee to power of any sort!  if they get shot up by offended terrorists it'll be some of us, not al-quaeda!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> Journalists like feeling important bless 'em



Other news organisations don't do this. They don't sell tickets to let readers wander around their offices, or set up absurd coffee bars, or take internal spats public on the public news site. They corral and channel journalistic self-importance. At the Graun, it is unrestricted.


----------



## JTG (Jan 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Other news organisations don't do this. They don't sell tickets to let readers wander around their offices, or set up absurd coffee bars, or take internal spats public on the public news site.


It is weirdly cultish isn't it? People were queuing up to praise Bell's cartoon on the site


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2015)

further to previous replies i don't think the guardian will go down the pan as it's too big a shit to fit in the pipe


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> It is weirdly cultish isn't it? People were queuing up to praise Bell's cartoon on the site


"fools run in the same vein"


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> It is weirdly cultish isn't it? People were queuing up to praise Bell's cartoon on the site



it's a cult with an unsustainable ratio of gurus to cultists, though.


----------



## belboid (Jan 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> or take internal spats public on the public news site.


the Mail certainly do that


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 8, 2015)

belboid said:


> the Mail certainly do that



This sort of thing?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> as if the guardian has ever failed to bend it's knee to power of any sort!  if they get shot up by offended terrorists it'll be some of us, not al-quaeda!


the difference between charlie hebdo and the guardian is that a charlie hebdo cartoonist had to be threatened and forced to enter the access code, a guardian journalist would volunteer the information.


----------



## belboid (Jan 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> This sort of thing?


far shittier. And more recently than eight years ago


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the difference between charlie hebdo and the guardian is that a charlie hebdo cartoonist had to be threatened and forced to enter the access code, a guardian journalist would volunteer the information.



Only if he or she could livetweet the shootings, to be fair. No deal otherwise.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> it's a cult with an unsustainable ratio of gurus to cultists, though.


That's the problem with the thrusting middle and upper middle classes. It's a bit like the Institute of Ideas in many ways.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 8, 2015)

https://membership.theguardian.com/event/15196621504

Only a fiver to watch the Guardian's finest emote about the shootings. A quid off for loyalty card holders, which as all monies raised go to the victims' families, suggests that the cultists are a price-sensitive bunch.


----------



## Zabo (Jan 8, 2015)

They are doing the Guardian Live on Censorship at this moment. I don't think they understand the terms irony or hypocrisy. The only thing missing is cucumber sandwiches.



Good to see Owen Jones get a good stuffing today in the Comments section..

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...bdo-norway-islamophobia-france-anders-breivik


----------



## Scumbaggio (Jan 8, 2015)

Zabo said:


> They are doing the Guardian Live on Censorship at this moment. I don't think they understand the terms irony or hypocrisy. The only thing missing is cucumber sandwiches.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




He could only wait about 24 hours before assuming the position of left wing caricature.


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2015)

A _third _article on  how to cook toast!

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/09/how-to-make-toast-the-jamie-oliver-way


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 9, 2015)

belboid said:


> A _third _article on  how to cook toast!
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/09/how-to-make-toast-the-jamie-oliver-way


And don't worry - readers can get involved too!


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> And don't worry - readers can get involved too!


Are you refined enough for a toast rack?   

Personally, I will only ever eat toast that has been browned over an open fire, made up of a combination of hickory and pine, with a sprinkling of heather on top.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 9, 2015)

belboid said:


> Are you refined enough for a toast rack?
> 
> Personally, I will only ever eat toast that has been browned over an open fire, made up of a combination of hickory and pine, with a sprinkling of heather on top.


Sometimes I like to break out the toast rack and teapot, because it makes me feel like I'm having breakfast in a seaside B&B.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2015)

..but this toast article is well edgy....



> In the past, I have turned the toaster on its side, put cheese on bread and slid it in so it toasts on one side and melts on the other. It’s a bit of a jiggle but it works [see footnote].





Spoiler: which service do you require?



*Footnote: We strongly don’t recommend turning your toaster on its side to make cheese on toast or anything else, as it is a fire hazard. See this warning from the London Fire Brigade.*


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 10, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Spoiler: which service do you require?
> 
> 
> 
> *Footnote: We strongly don’t recommend turning your toaster on its side to make cheese on toast or anything else, as it is a fire hazard. See this warning from the London Fire Brigade.*



“I never thought I’d have to give this advice as it’s painfully obvious...”


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2015)

This is genuine.


> *Plastic bags and slogan tees: the best looks so far from London Collections: Men*
> Felt hats, slogan t-shirts and fun faux fur - the first two days of the London Collections: Men proved that menswear is alive with wit and innovation







A model wearing a plastic bag on the catwalk at the Christopher Shannon show 
Photograph: Stuart C. Wilson/Getty Images


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 10, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This is genuine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 13, 2015)

You make me bleed sick:

Warning: this article contains the image of the magazine cover, which some may find offensive.


----------



## Celyn (Jan 13, 2015)

belboid said:


> A _third _article on  how to cook toast!
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jan/09/how-to-make-toast-the-jamie-oliver-way



Oh, this is so sad.



> There is a divide in our family about how to make toast on an Aga



That must make life terribly stressful.	Poor Jamie.


----------



## Nylock (Jan 13, 2015)

Oh the humanity!


----------



## ska invita (Jan 13, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> “I never thought I’d have to give this advice as it’s painfully obvious...”


 
Best is to make sausages in a toaster


----------



## ska invita (Jan 13, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Sometimes I like to break out the toast rack and teapot, because it makes me feel like I'm having breakfast in a seaside B&B.


does *anyone* have those really small tea cups at home?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 13, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> “I never thought I’d have to give this advice as it’s painfully obvious...”


Jamie must clean his toaster thoroughly every time he makes cheese on toast, otherwise the breadcrumbs from the bottom and going to fall on the element and your house will smell of incinerated toast forever more.


----------



## cantsin (Jan 14, 2015)

am sure no one comes to this thread to see Monbiot getting smoke blown up his jacksie, but his various TTIP pieces are sharp, incisive, informative : http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...de-deal-transatlantic-trade-investment-treaty 

of course it's all a bit frustrating that he can't/won't overtly place all this, and the necessary fight against TTIP, in a wider "Be realistic, Capitalism's fucked, lets' head for the alternative, + sharpish" context, but it's Monbiot, in the Graun, thats how it goes down.


----------



## Chick Webb (Jan 14, 2015)

Monbiot's an idiot on most things, particularly the things he feels most qualified speak about, but that was a pretty good article.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 14, 2015)

ska invita said:


> does *anyone* have those really small tea cups at home?


Ahhh... OJ glasses the size of eggcups, jumpers for goalposts etc


----------



## rekil (Jan 15, 2015)

Neel Mukherjee’s top 10 books about revolutionaries



> A common theme in most of these books is how revolutionary action is foredoomed to failure and revolutionaries are either deluded, or wrong, or both; at worst, they are psychopaths and criminals. Idealism seems to be vitiated the moment it is translated into (usually misguided) action.





> This is, needless to say, a highly selective and subjective list.



You can say that again m8.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 15, 2015)

I remember when private school oxbridge types like Nel were lining up to join/run the CPGB. Did we let them down somehow?


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 15, 2015)

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more banal, a crisp sandwich recipe:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...onroe-presents-aunty-helens-potato-sandwiches


----------



## brogdale (Jan 15, 2015)

Bakunin said:


> Just when you thought it couldn't get any more banal, a crisp sandwich recipe:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...onroe-presents-aunty-helens-potato-sandwiches


 Doesn't say which way round I put the toaster.

#toastypanicattack


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 15, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Doesn't say which way round I put the toaster.
> 
> #toastypanicattack


----------



## belboid (Jan 15, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Doesn't say which way round I put the toaster.
> 
> #toastypanicattack


didn't you read the Nigel Slater??!!  You _never_ make toast with a toaster


----------



## brogdale (Jan 15, 2015)

belboid said:


> didn't you read the Nigel Slater??!!  You _never_ make toast with a toaster



aaarrggg! more #toastypanicattack


----------



## brogdale (Jan 15, 2015)

Slow news day?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 16, 2015)

Spoiler: NSF mouth full of coffee over keyboard


----------



## rekil (Jan 16, 2015)

Slipknot puff piece.



> Surfacing (“Fuck it all! / Fuck this world! / Fuck everything that you stand for!”) confirms that there is substance and soul behind the cartoonish masks and outsider bravado.


----------



## treelover (Jan 19, 2015)

> Revealed: thousands of Britons on benefits across EU
> • At least 30,000 Britons on unemployment benefit in EU, Guardian research shows
> • Unemployed Britons in richer EU states outnumber claimants from those countries in UK
> 
> ...




The Guardian has spent some considerable resources on identifying there are more UK born claimants receiving higher rates of benefit in the other EU countries they are now living in, than there are EU citizens claiming here. I'm not sure why they have done this, I think its to show up  the Tories and their attacks on migrants here, but it will only bring attention to U.K nationals claiming abroad which will include disabled people who leave for medical purposes, better climate, etc.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 19, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Spoiler: NSF mouth full of coffee over keyboard


In my head she now sounds like Kathy Beale.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 19, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> In my head she now sounds like Kathy Beale.


 Hey. I'm no fan...but a northerner she ain't; she's a Croydon girl, innit?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 19, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Hey. I'm no fan...but a northerner she ain't; she's a Croydon girl, innit?


What are you on about?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 19, 2015)

copliker said:


> Slipknot puff piece.


I was really hoping that the author was the MI6-touting-son-of-the-ex-Chancellor Dom Lawson... But no


----------



## brogdale (Jan 19, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> What are you on about?



E 20 = the north. Geddit?


----------



## killer b (Jan 20, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/20/page-3-censorship-sun-sex-sells



> Men’s bodies are now as “objectified” as women’s, on editorial pages and advertisements alike.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 20, 2015)

killer b said:


> Men’s bodies are now as “objectified” as women’s, on editorial pages and advertisements alike.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 21, 2015)

Oh Stephen Moss...

“...A Greek anarchist friend of mine...”






http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...osters-london-bus-tube-police-strike-magazine


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 21, 2015)

See also:



> They prefer not to describe themselves as an anarchist publication



So Moss says:



> We pick up the trail at an anarchist magazine





> ...reads the buzzer outside the HQ of the anarchist magazine Strike!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2015)

Am enjoying the comments section. I need to read up on the Spanish Civil War.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 21, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Am enjoying the comments section. I need to read up on the Spanish Civil War.


You've got to call it the Spanish revolution if you're going to be an anarchist.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> You've got to call it the Spanish revolution if you're going to be an anarchist.


Noted


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2015)

Got any book recommendations then, butchersapron ?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 21, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Got any book recommendations then, butchersapron ?


A few! Still say that the Beevor book is the best basic intro to the historical context, the international issues, the internal issues, the internal factions, the competing ideologies and strategies etc and a great guide to further exploration. And Homage to Catalonia for how one person experienced all this and what options it opened up and also closed.

Beevor's updated version here


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 21, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> A few! Still say that the Beevor book is the best basic intro to the historical context, the international issues, the internal issues, the internal factions, the competing ideologies and strategies etc and a great guide to further exploration. And Homage to Catalonia for how one person experienced all this and what options it opened up and also closed.
> 
> Beevor's updated version here


Thanks!


----------



## JTG (Jan 21, 2015)

Beevor seconded, good read, easy to follow


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 21, 2015)

Abel Paz's biography of Durutti I thought was good for lots of historical background


----------



## brogdale (Jan 23, 2015)

Again this is 'real'...apparently...








Spoiler: n really sfw











Wait for spring, maybe?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2015)

nobody is going to  walk around with thier bellend hanging out These people are mad


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody is going to  walk around with thier bellend hanging out These people are mad



It's always like that at fashion shows though.  They wear stuff on the catwalk that no-one would or even could wear irl.  I don't see the point personally.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody is going to  walk around with thier bellend hanging out



Beg to differ


----------



## brogdale (Jan 23, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Beg to differ


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 23, 2015)

doing for the polo shirt what hitler did for jackboots.


----------



## killer b (Jan 23, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> It's always like that at fashion shows though.  They wear stuff on the catwalk that no-one would or even could wear irl.  I don't see the point personally.


It's art innit.


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> It's art innit.



Decadence I call it.


----------



## killer b (Jan 23, 2015)

That too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2015)

art is a cold bellend


----------



## belboid (Jan 23, 2015)

Readers Songs About Secrecy

A perfectly reasonable column, and a perfectly reasonable subject. So reasonable, that they already did it, two and a half years ago.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> It's always like that at fashion shows though.  They wear stuff on the catwalk that no-one would or even could wear irl.  I don't see the point personally.


yeah, while they are done out like a dadaist cake topping, some of the aspects of catwalk design do filter down to normal people clothing

I don't see the exposed glans look as likely to filter down


----------



## killer b (Jan 23, 2015)

Doesn't really matter does it? The designer made all the papers. Job done.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 23, 2015)

if I went around with my nob out I'd make the papers for an entirely different reason It's one rule for them


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> doing for the polo shirt what hitler did for jackboots.



At least the bellend hasn't popped his collar.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 24, 2015)

Nauseating Editorial - note,  not an individual comment piece but the offical view of the newspaper - on the death of King fuckface of saud. 

"a skillful manager ... not a bad man" 

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...audi-arabia-king-abdullah-death?commentpage=1


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 24, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Nauseating Editorial - note,  not an individual comment piece but the offical view of the newspaper - on the death of King fuckface of saud.
> 
> "a skillful manager ... not a bad man"
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...audi-arabia-king-abdullah-death?commentpage=1


Yeah I saw that, revolting.


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 24, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Nauseating Editorial - note,  not an individual comment piece but the offical view of the newspaper - on the death of King fuckface of saud.
> 
> "a skillful manager ... not a bad man"
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...audi-arabia-king-abdullah-death?commentpage=1



The worst part is they don't get around to mentioning that Saudi Arabia is a Western creation, wholly created and sustained by Western interests, until the final paragraph.  So the reader is left with the impression that this strange fundamentalist chap just happened to become ruler of the greatest oil fields in the world by some kind of freakish accident or something.  And we're left to debate whether or not the deceased was a "bad man," while being kept in ignorance of the single salient point: that he was _our _man, and will be replaced by another one of our men until the Arabs finally put a stop to external meddling in their affairs.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 24, 2015)

He made the beheadings run on time


----------



## seventh bullet (Jan 24, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Nauseating Editorial - note,  not an individual comment piece but the offical view of the newspaper - on the death of King fuckface of saud.
> 
> "a skillful manager ... not a bad man"
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...audi-arabia-king-abdullah-death?commentpage=1



Also, the plebs should be silent, invisible and wait for scraps (if any) to be thrown down from the table of any future 'reform.'


----------



## J Ed (Jan 24, 2015)

Compare to the Graunid's obituary of Chavez

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/05/hugo-chavez



> *An elected assembly, almost entirely composed of his supporters, produced a constitution – approved by referendum in December 1999 – that extended the presidential term to six years and allowed immediate re-election.* The senate was abolished, the role of the armed forces expanded, and new "moral" and "electoral" branches of government created



What an odd way to say that someone who was democratically elected pursued electoral reform, I thought that the Graunid liked that sort of thing or is that only when their Lib Dems do it?



> The former lieutenant-colonel had always insisted that his revolution was "peaceful, but armed". After purging the armed forces of all those suspected of disloyalty to the leader, he obliged officers and troops to adopt the Cuban-inspired slogan "socialist motherland or death", and created a militia answerable only to him. Thuggish, armed civilian groups also swore to defend the revolution against enemies within and without. These included opponents in the media, the universities and the church.
> 
> Emboldened by his election victory, Chávez moved to close down RCTV, the country's oldest television channel and a determined opponent of his regime. A hitherto dormant student movement re-awoke, took to the streets and – though it failed to save RCTV – helped stave off a bid by the president to rewrite the constitution yet again, this time along overtly dictatorial lines.
> 
> ...



Graunid: Spinning tyrants asdemocratically elected leaders and democratically elected leaders as tyrants


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 24, 2015)

fucking hell, that hatchet job passed me by


> Emboldened by his election victory, Chávez moved to close down RCTV, the country's oldest television channel and a determined opponent of his regime



that would be a TV station owned by the interests who attempted a coup on him, which wasn't shut down but denied a broadcast license so continued on cable service.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 24, 2015)

The Graunid can't even report on what our intelligence services are doing without having hard drives smashed up, can you imagine what would happen to a newspaper in this country after a coup during which a PM was kidnapped and flown out for execution? I bet it would be a lot less pretty than a license not being renewed.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 24, 2015)

J Ed said:


> The Graunid can't even report on what our intelligence services are doing without having hard drives smashed up, can you imagine what would happen to a newspaper in this country after a coup during which a PM was kidnapped and flown out for execution? I bet it would be a lot less pretty than a license not being renewed.


goddamn liberals, anything left of chamberlain is a force to be suppresed. Because they can mediate with power and tame it. Despite every example of liberals siding with rightists ends in thier destruction. Hello, clegg


----------



## J Ed (Jan 27, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> A few! Still say that the Beevor book is the best basic intro to the historical context, the international issues, the internal issues, the internal factions, the competing ideologies and strategies etc and a great guide to further exploration. And Homage to Catalonia for how one person experienced all this and what options it opened up and also closed.
> 
> Beevor's updated version here



I don't suppose that you have a pdf of Spain Betrayed: The Soviet Union in the Spanish Civil War?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 28, 2015)

Afraid not comrade.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 28, 2015)

New look!

People are not amused

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/28/introducing-new-look-comment-is-free#comments


----------



## killer b (Jan 28, 2015)

That's the nature of new looks. they'll have forgotten about it by next week.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 28, 2015)

Ooh you can get the internet on your big london phone now!


----------



## brogdale (Jan 28, 2015)

christ on a bike!







..and I'll not even bother with the men in tights stuff


----------



## J Ed (Jan 28, 2015)

Article about conditions of free hot drinks in Waitrose attracts quite a crowd BTL

Waitrose = "great chav free shopping"


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Article about conditions of free hot drinks in Waitrose attracts quite a crowd BTL
> 
> Waitrose = "great chav free shopping"



Well this "chav" will carry a banana in my rucsack (I normally do anyway) and keep an old Waitrose receipt including bananas on me then, if challenged by the Waitrose 'police', I'll be able to prove that I've understood the "etiquette" of drinking my free coffee in their nice, warm cafe (where I read all the papers...for free).

DLTBGYD


----------



## ska invita (Jan 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> That's the nature of new looks. they'll have forgotten about it by next week.


the problem is the front page list of stories are all text, no pictures and no headline-to-subtext - it all just turns into a blur of text - i find it impossible to focus on to read
its pandering to phone and tablet users
this isnt just a case of getting used to a new design i dont think
*The Al JAzeera site is all messed up too - theyve gotten rid of the regions from the front page


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Well this "chav" will carry a banana in my rucsack (I normally do anyway) and keep an old Waitrose receipt including bananas on me then, if challenged by the Waitrose 'police', I'll be able to prove that I've understood the "etiquette" of drinking my free coffee in their nice, warm cafe (where I read all the papers...for free).



I wouldn't hang out there if you paid me.  But if I understand correctly, you can just walk into Waitrose, grab a free coffee and walk out again? 

Is that right?  That's brilliant if so, I'm having some of that next time I'm in London.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> I wouldn't hang out there if you paid me.  But if I understand correctly, you can just walk into Waitrose, grab a free coffee and walk out again?
> 
> Is that right?  That's brilliant if so, I'm having some of that next time I'm in London.


Yes, that is right, though you will need to have a "my waitrose" card and, technically have the card swiped to record the 'free' coffee. Waitrose do have stores outside of London; is there not one nearer to you?

Where is the "there" that you wouldn't "hang out"?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 29, 2015)

I wouldn't drink thier bourgeois coffee


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yes, that is right, though you will need to have a "my waitrose" card and, technically have the card swiped to record the 'free' coffee. Waitrose do have stores outside of London; is there not one nearer to you?



I don't think so, I'm in the USA.

So you need a loyalty card to get this "free" coffee eh?  That gives me pause, I don't trust them cards.  But I suppose it doesn't matter if you never buy anything?



brogdale said:


> Where is the "there" that you wouldn't "hang out"?



Waitrose.  Always full of tossers when I go there.  Can't imagine anyone hanging out there frankly.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> I don't think so, I'm in the USA.
> 
> So you need a loyalty card to get this "free" coffee eh?  That gives me pause, I don't trust them cards.  But I suppose it doesn't matter if you never buy anything?
> 
> ...


Oh, I see, no you obviously won't have a local 'Waitrose' then. Are you a US citizen of Welsh descent?

Like you I generally don't trust/engage with 'loyalty' cards, but the freebies associated with the JLP cards, and the lack of need to purchase, are enough to have lured me in, albeit with false details.

Not sure about the 'tossers', tbh where I go it mostly seems to be freeloaders like myself...but perhaps that's what you meant?

You can sign up here.


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Are you a US citizen of Welsh descent?



Born and bred in Wales, moved to the USA, became a citizen.



brogdale said:


> Like you I generally don't trust/engage with 'loyalty' cards, but the freebies associated with the JLP cards, and the lack of need to purchase, are enough to have lured me in, albeit with false details.



I reckon those records are kept forever.  In 20 or 30 years time they could be used in ways of which we have no conception today.  I'm steering clear of them.



brogdale said:


> Not sure about the 'tossers', tbh where I go it mostly seems to be freeloaders like myself...but perhaps that's what you meant?



Hardly, I am the world's greatest freeloader myself.  When I'm in London my local Waitrose is in Bloomsbury, you can probably imagine what I mean.



brogdale said:


> You can sign up here.



I'm not signing anything officer.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I wouldn't drink thier bourgeois coffee



Some months ago I was talking to one of the partners, (young guy who seemed very clued-up), and asked him how much each 'free' cup costs and the reply was approx 15p. I have no idea if that was correct, but it kind of sounds credible. Anyway, I'm happy to accept their 'free' (to me) coffee with no obligation to purchase any other product....bourgeois, or not.


----------



## belboid (Jan 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Some months ago I was talking to one of the partners, (young guy who seemed very clued-up), and asked him how much each 'free' cup costs and the reply was approx 15p. I have no idea if that was correct, but it kind of sounds credible. Anyway, I'm happy to accept their 'free' (to me) coffee with no obligation to purchase any other product....bourgeois, or not.


I was told the average cost of a costa coffee - including staff time, rent etc - was 6p. Money for nothing


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> Born and bred in Wales, moved to the USA, became a citizen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough.
Yeah, the Brunswick one does seem to attract a fair few annoying types, but the Tott Ct Rd branch tends to be OK; mostly student types.

That's an interesting speculation about what might become of all that data, but tbh their records of my use will, I'd imagine, be restricted to where & when "I"* have availed myself of the free coffee; I don't use the card(s)* for any other transactions.

* I have multiple, fictitious cards to max the freeloading.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Some months ago I was talking to one of the partners, (young guy who seemed very clued-up), and asked him how much each 'free' cup costs and the reply was approx 15p. I have no idea if that was correct, but it kind of sounds credible. Anyway, I'm happy to accept their 'free' (to me) coffee with no obligation to purchase any other product....bourgeois, or not.


Hang on a minute - AFAIK the Waitrose card works as a payment card, therefore there's a credit check tied to it, therefore nope, not touching it.  And definitely not with a ridiculously common name.


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yeah, the Brunswick one does seem to attract a fair few annoying types



The Brunswick Starbucks is even worse.  The Giraffe restaurant and Scoob Books are that place's only saving grace these days, apart from the proximity of the Lord John Russell.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Hang on a minute - AFAIK the Waitrose card works as a payment card, therefore there's a credit check tied to it, therefore nope, not touching it.  And definitely not with a ridiculously common name.


Difference between the cards associated with JLP financial products and the "my waitrose" cards; no, it's not a payment card at all. Relax.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> The Brunswick Starbucks is even worse.  The Giraffe restaurant and Scoob Books are that place's only saving grace these days, apart from the proximity of the Lord John Russell.


Scoobs
Don't know/use the LJR, cos the spoons next door to Foyles is just too handy/cheap.


----------



## phildwyer (Jan 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Don't know/use the LJR, cos the spoons next door to Foyles is just too handy/cheap.



Also too far, for me anyway.  I've been going to the Friend at Hand recently, lots of tourists but pretty good food.  It was TS Eliot's local too.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 29, 2015)

Mash has it covered...



> *CLASSY supermarket Waitrose has completely lost it after everyone took the piss with its free hot drinks.*
> 
> The company had previously issued a masterfully passive-aggressive statement reminding loyalty card holders to buy a lovely cake if they wanted to linger with their complimentary coffee, which everyone ignored.
> 
> ...


----------



## rekil (Jan 29, 2015)

Good shit from former Le Monde editor Natalie Nougayrède. A product of elite schools and all the rest as far as I can make out.



> Opposite the Podemos office, there’s a book shop run by some of its activists. Browsing through it feels like you’ve stepped into a time-machine: there are collections of Lenin’s works, and books on the Italian communist thinker Antonio Gramsci and the French 19th-century revolutionary Louise Michel.


Weirdos and their book filled bookshop how are you. Lest we forget, the guardian bookshop was flogging that anti-semitic conspiraloonery until we made them stop. 


> Iglesias and his close circle of friends in the Podemos leadership have spent time in Venezuela and Bolivia in the last decade, some of them acting as advisers to regimes whose democratic credentials aren’t exactly solid. Questions have been raised in the Spanish media about financial dealings from the regime of the late Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez, whom Iglesias has expressed admiration for.


Little bit contra.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 29, 2015)

This is shockingly bad  - and its from one of their foriegn affairs staffers. Its a feeble hatchet job on Podemos where the main crimes seems to be their leaders admiration for Chavez, defended Syriza coalition arrangement and that he was apparently less than enthusiastic about the ukrainian "revolution" (although no details are forthcoming in the article) 



> But the impression of ideological muddle endures. During the Maidan protests in Ukraine, Iglesias largely came down on the side of Putin’s propaganda. And when Syriza formed a coalition with the antisemitic, far-right Independent Greek party, Iglesias defended it as “a programmatic choice”.



The whole thing reads like shes been passed a crib sheet from podemos' rivals and passed it off as some sort of expert commentary. 

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...mos-spain-victory-less-clear#comment-46837747


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 29, 2015)

copliker said:


> Good shit from former Le Monde editor Natalie Nougayrède. A product of elite schools and all the rest as far as I can make out.
> 
> 
> Weirdos and their book filled bookshop how are you. Lest we forget, the guardian bookshop was flogging that anti-semitic conspiraloonery until we made them stop.
> ...



Leftwing bookshop sells left wing books shock!!! 

Didn't see your post coley - great minds and all that.


----------



## clandestino (Feb 2, 2015)

ska invita said:


> the problem is the front page list of stories are all text, no pictures and no headline-to-subtext - it all just turns into a blur of text - i find it impossible to focus on to read
> its pandering to phone and tablet users
> this isnt just a case of getting used to a new design i dont think
> *The Al JAzeera site is all messed up too - theyve gotten rid of the regions from the front page



I agree. I look at the front page now but nothing tempts me to click on the stories to read them. I've started reading BBC for news instead, but that's not a perfect replacement. Any other recommendations for news sites?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 2, 2015)

clandestino said:


> I agree. I look at the front page now but nothing tempts me to click on the stories to read them. I've started reading BBC for news instead, but that's not a perfect replacement. Any other recommendations for news sites?


yeah exactly that (though the bbc site is consistently news free on the front pages)
ive ended up on Al jazeera a bit more than normal, also looking more on facebook than i normally do, though ultimately ive been detoxing from news for the last couple of years - gave up on tv news (tv full stop in fact) and think i might just carry it over to the internet too - going to try and waste less time on the net this year i think and the more websites go "phone first" the easier thats going to be

i used to do RSS feeds for blogs but then had to reset my system and lost all the bookmarks - might try and set that up again


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 2, 2015)

52 reasons not to date an aid worker:

http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...2-reasons-not-to-date-an-aid-worker?CMP=fb_gu

39. When arguing, you will be nicknamed after some dictator you never heard of before, and won’t be able to complain without having to put up with a condescending “What do you mean you don’t know who he is?”

NB, link contains slightly NSFW image.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 2, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Leftwing bookshop sells left wing books shock!!!
> 
> Didn't see your post coley - great minds and all that.


Presumably when you go to a normal bookshops all their books date from the last five years. Also there will be nothing in the economics section by or about Adam Smith, Ricardo etc.

(Also, the ruling party in Spain has spent considerable amounts of time trying to curry favour with the Chinese Communist Party - which runs an actual dictatorship...)


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 2, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> 52 reasons not to date an aid worker:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...2-reasons-not-to-date-an-aid-worker?CMP=fb_gu
> 
> ...


I.e _52 chances to point out that i'm part of an elite globe-trotting humanity saving bubble and that i'm fantastic. I'm better than you in fact. And you. And i juggle this with a family life. You're all cunts compared to me.
_
Look at this actual line:
_
Angélica Arbulu has been a humanitarian for over 12 years. _


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I.e _52 chances to point out that i'm part of an elite globe-trotting humanity saving bubble and that i'm fantastic. I'm better than you in fact. And you. And i juggle this with a family life. You're all cunts compared to me.
> _
> Look at this actual line:
> _
> Angélica Arbulu has been a humanitarian for over 12 years. _





To be honest i know a couple of aid workers who have lived in different countries, long term, proper aid work rather than eu based volunteering like i did a few years ago and that list is absolute bollocks.


----------



## rekil (Feb 2, 2015)

She's a bureaucrat ffs.

How does one get into this racket.



> Strategic Analysis on best practices & Lesson Learned through the MDG Fund
> 
> UNDP
> 
> ...


----------



## rekil (Feb 2, 2015)

A while ago I found myself beside a bloke in the pub who described himself as "a bohemian".

Anyway, Timothy Garton Ash is horny for war with Russia.



> Only when Ukrainian military defence can plausibly hold Russian offence to a stalemate will a negotiated settlement become possible. Sometimes it takes guns to stop the guns.
> 
> Won’t such arms supplies further nourish a Russian paranoia of encirclement? Yes, but Putin is feeding the paranoia already, untroubled by the facts.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 2, 2015)

Nice to see the sports section editors got their priorities right:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 2, 2015)

copliker said:


> A while ago I found myself beside a bloke in the pub who described himself as "a bohemian".


Hope you told him to Czech his privilege


----------



## belboid (Feb 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Nice to see the sports section editors got their priorities right:
> 
> View attachment 67181


well, Katy Perry is at least more popular here than American bloody Football - which nobody gives a shit about


----------



## killer b (Feb 2, 2015)

copliker said:


> She's a bureaucrat ffs.
> 
> How does one get into this racket.


A rhetorical question, I presume?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 2, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> 52 reasons not to date an aid worker:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...2-reasons-not-to-date-an-aid-worker?CMP=fb_gu
> 
> ...



Christ on crutches that's the most smug thing I've ever read.

e2a: Looks like she's one of the people who get paid a small fortune to sit in an air-conditioned office issuing twattish memos about produtivity while the volunteers are out doing all the getting shot at and contracting malaria type stuff.


----------



## rekil (Feb 2, 2015)

killer b said:


> A rhetorical question, I presume?


Well yeah, I had a look at the route. V.expensive unis -> financial sector multinationals -> UN gravy train.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 2, 2015)

belboid said:


> well, Katy Perry is at least more popular here than American bloody Football - which nobody gives a shit about


it disrupts the american mediocre shows schedule and leaves me with nothing that weekend


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Look at this actual line:
> _
> Angélica Arbulu has been a humanitarian for over 12 years. _



With a name like "Arbulu" you expect it to continue "and bathes every morning in the blood of young virgins".


----------



## treelover (Feb 2, 2015)

> Cities in culture: has Sheffield finally shaken off its Full Monty image?
> http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...field-finally-shaken-off-its-full-monty-image




There is some good stuff in the G recently, but some rubbish including this lazy article about Sheff, it is nothing like the F/M now, it has its problems but cultural provision has never been better, don't think it even mentions Tramlines. Even in the summer when the students were away, there were events all the time. Though of course, they are right about unemployment, inequality and poverty and other stuff can be just surface deep, Look at cities like Liverpool, once you leave the shiny city centre/Liverpool One, etc, you see real decline, even as close as Lime St,by the Adelphi,story of most neo-liberal regional economies really.


----------



## weepiper (Feb 2, 2015)

Some amount of anti-working-class pish been written about the Celtic-Rangers game yesterday, including this fine example in the Guardian:

Middle class bedwetting

And here is my reply to Libby Brooks.


----------



## treelover (Feb 2, 2015)

How popular is your blog?, just interested


----------



## weepiper (Feb 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> How popular is your blog?, just interested


how long is a piece of string? I'm not sure how to compare it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 2, 2015)

weepiper said:


> how long is a piece of string? I'm not sure how to compare it.


just say it's very popular with people who read it


----------



## rekil (Feb 3, 2015)

C'mere, and there's more.

Tell us your reasons to date an aid worker



> There may be 52 reasons not to date an aid worker, but there are also at least that many arguments for becoming romantically involved with those courageous, compassionate and slightly crazy characters.


Steady on.


> Other persuasive justifications are that you’ll never be bored by an aid worker


Wtf. Wanna bet?


----------



## Indeliblelink (Feb 7, 2015)

Going down the pan indeed, just make sure you're sitting.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/06/take-a-stand-against-the-urinal?CMP=fb_gu


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 7, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> Going down the pan indeed, just make sure you're sitting.
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/06/take-a-stand-against-the-urinal?CMP=fb_gu


Here here. I agree with all of that. Glad that someone else thinks standing up to piss is daft.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 7, 2015)

I want get a dig at the independent - they had a headline which said 'puniched' for a good few hours yesterday.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I want get a dig at the independent - they had a headline which said 'puniched' for a good few hours yesterday.


Deserves some gunishment


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Deserves some gunishment



Maybe they were talking about Anna Punich, the hurdler? Two-Beards is known for promoting his "friends" in Daddy's papers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Some amount of anti-working-class pish been written about the Celtic-Rangers game yesterday, including this fine example in the Guardian:
> 
> Middle class bedwetting
> 
> And here is my reply to Libby Brooks.


the last line is particularly gold.

save us andy!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 10, 2015)

Polly Toynbee urges readers to donate to GuardianAid:

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/conte...ecarious-guardian-not-mentioning-£850m-it-has


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 10, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Polly Toynbee urges readers to donate to GuardianAid:
> 
> http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/content/polly-toynbee-urges-readers-dig-deep-support-precarious-guardian-not-mentioning-£850m-it-has



The person whining about this is Mick Hume, News Group's pet comedy LMer with ten years of Times columns under his belt. So not entirely disinterested, then.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 10, 2015)

In what way is he _interested_?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> In what way is he _interested_?



It's helpful to the Times to say snide things about the Guardian's tawdry schemes for monetising readers.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's helpful to the Times to say snide things about the Guardian's tawdry schemes for monetising readers.


Oh right. So you've told us that someone in the media is interested in the media. Has an _interest _in the media. Is a direct voice for owners of other media. Another great contribution. Leaving aside the terrible shadow that Hume's words cast upon all semi-living media things for now.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 16, 2015)

bonus points for mentioning hari in a sympathetic manner
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...grades-adderall-modafinil?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
(why the pictures of students?)


----------



## Belushi (Feb 16, 2015)

Evidence free 'analysis' on how the Kremlin is behind *everything *happening in Europe at the moment



> Senior European and American diplomats and officials are also convinced, without supplying hard evidence, that the Russians have infiltrated, or are helping to fund, NGOs campaigning in Europe against fracking and the proposed free trade agreement between the EU and the US, and that they have also been quietly encouraging the Scottish and Catalan secessionist movements in Britain and Spain.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lin-is-making-its-presence-felt-across-europe


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 17, 2015)

surprised no one picked up on this little gem http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/17/how-to-eat-pancakes


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 17, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> surprised no one picked up on this little gem http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/17/how-to-eat-pancakes


It's self-evidently crêpe


----------



## treelover (Feb 17, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Evidence free 'analysis' on how the Kremlin is behind *everything *happening in Europe at the moment
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/16/russian-resurgence-how-the-kremlin-is-making-its-presence-felt-across-europe




Bizzarro!


----------



## rekil (Feb 17, 2015)

Guardian Live: Doc Sundays - Maidan


> Guardian Doc Sundays brings together some of the most compelling feature length documentaries from around the world, in a double bill every month with a new Guardian commissioned short documentary.  We open our season with Pretty Radical the remarkable feature documentary Maidan.
> 
> Maidan chronicles a civil uprising against the regime of president Yanukovych which took place in Kiev (Ukraine) in the winter of 2013/14. The film follows the progress of the revolution: from peaceful rallies, half a million strong, in the Maidan square, to the bloody street battles between the protestors and riot police. Maidan is a portrait of an awakening nation, rediscovering its identity.


Interesting use of language in the blurb.


----------



## rekil (Feb 17, 2015)

Why not make it a weekend to die for with this unmissable "How to write longform journalism with Polly Toynbee" masterclass.


----------



## andysays (Feb 17, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's self-evidently crêpe



Whoever wrote it deserves to be battered


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 17, 2015)

copliker said:


> Why not make it a weekend to die for with this unmissable "How to write longform journalism with Polly Toynbee" masterclass.


For half that price I'll tell you all there is to know.



Spoiler: How to write longform journalism



Use longerer words. And more of them.


----------



## Santino (Feb 17, 2015)

Why has everyone started using the word 'longform'? Who started it?


----------



## killer b (Feb 17, 2015)

I've only seen it bandied around the last few years. smell of yank to me.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Feb 17, 2015)

Santino said:


> Why has everyone started using the word 'longform'? Who started it?



Journalism courses. New entrants these days do a year of postgrad jargon training before they are let loose on freesheets and trade magazines, and some of the pseudo-academic terminology sticks. They don't pick up basic literacy, though.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 17, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> They don't pick up basic literacy, though.



I think you'll find that the current preferred term is Hansen's Disease.


----------



## belboid (Mar 3, 2015)

interesting piece on the Scott Trust, and the Grauniads refusal to cover HSBC's illegal operations within the UK - http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-03-03/hsbc-and-the-sham-of-guardians-scott-trust/


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 3, 2015)

belboid said:


> interesting piece on the Scott Trust, and the Grauniads refusal to cover HSBC's illegal operations within the UK - http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-03-03/hsbc-and-the-sham-of-guardians-scott-trust/






> The Guardian is not owned by a trust at all. In 2008, “the trust was replaced with a limited company” that was accordingly re-named “The Scott Trust Limited.” Though not a trust at all, but simply a *profit-making* company, it is still referred to frequently as ‘The Scott Trust,’ promulgating the widely-held but mistaken belief in the Guardian’s inherently benign ownership structure. … The problem, of course, is that the Guardian functions under the same sort of corporate structure as any other major media company.



Srs lol at "profit making".


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 3, 2015)

have we had this gem?

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/feb/15/consider-lard


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 3, 2015)

here's a proper gem http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...ortrait-monica-lewinsky-deserves-more-respect


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 3, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> have we had this gem?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2011/feb/15/consider-lard


i enjoyed that. mmmm lard....


----------



## campanula (Mar 3, 2015)

My daughter and I watched in amazement while her Romanian friend cut a fat SLICE of neat lard, sprinkled salt and pepper on it and daintily placed it between 2 slices of bread. I vaguely remember bread and dripping, but it was spread thinly on hot toast,
Having said that, the best shortcrust pastry is always half lard, half butter, so yep, there will usually be a packet in my fridge.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 3, 2015)

Nearly time for this sort of stuff again....


> Citizens have votes. Newspapers do not. However, if the Guardian had a vote in the 2010 general election it would be cast enthusiastically for the Liberal Democrats....The vote would be cast with some important reservations and frustrations. Yet it would be cast for one great reason of principle above all.





> The Liberal Democrats and Labour should, of course, have explored much earlier and more explicitly how they might co-operate to reform the electoral system. During the campaign, and especially since the final leaders' debate, the appetite for co-operation has clearly increased and is increasing still. Mr Clegg's Guardian interview today underscores the potential for more productive engagement with Labour and is matched by fresh, untribal thinking from his potential partners.





> Mr Cameron offers a new and welcome Toryism, quite different from what Michael Howard offered five years ago. His difficulty is not that he is the "same old Tory". He isn't. The problem is that his revolution has not translated adequately into detailed policies, and remains highly contradictory. A Cameron government might not be as destructive to Britain as the worst Tory regimes of the past. But it is not the right course for Britain.





> Trapped in the arid, name-calling two-party politics of the House of Commons, Nick Clegg has seldom had the chance to shine. Released into the daylight of equal debate, he has given the other two parties the fright of their lives.
> 
> A newspaper that is proudly rooted in the liberal as well as the labour tradition – and whose advocacy of constitutional reform stretches back to the debates of 1831-32 – cannot ignore such a record. If not now, when? The answer is clear and proud. Now.



Still impressive; no?


----------



## campanula (Mar 3, 2015)

Good grief, noooo


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 4, 2015)

campanula said:


> My daughter and I watched in amazement while her Romanian friend cut a fat SLICE of neat lard, sprinkled salt and pepper on it and daintily placed it between 2 slices of bread. I vaguely remember bread and dripping, but it was spread thinly on hot toast,
> Having said that, the best shortcrust pastry is always half lard, half butter, so yep, there will usually be a packet in my fridge.



Ukrainians are worse. They eat _salo_ (salted pork fat).


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 4, 2015)

And in Russia.


----------



## JTG (Mar 5, 2015)

'Only men urinate in the street. Except me, I used to do it. But that's OK cos I was really drunk and needed a slash. Anyway, stop doing it men!'

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/05/men-urinate-street-hamburg-residents-urine


----------



## captainmission (Mar 7, 2015)

A horrible little sneery piece about the death of Konstandinos Scurfield (to add to the chorus of similar guardian pieces).

In which Deborah Orr calls his death a pointless waste, that his parents only support his sacrifice out of loyalty and there's a moral equivalence of him joining the YPG and someone joining ISIS.

And later calls him a 21st century crusader and vigilante on twitter.

_If only his betters had stopped him from making such poor decision _


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 7, 2015)

captainmission said:


> there's a moral equivalence of him joining the YPG and someone joining ISIS.



I thought you might be exagerrating, but no, that's what it says.

I got the Guardian Weekly today, and it includes a piece by her husband reviewing a book about Prince Charles, which concludes that the heir of sorrows is a bloody nice bloke actually. Because Chaz has allegedly smoked a spliff or two in his day.

"That might be alright for Will Self or one of those fellows".


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 7, 2015)

I also found this piece about DRC by Owen "no I'm not here for work experience" Jones to be a bit "by the numbers".

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/06/ignore-congo-atrocities-africa-drc-horror


----------



## Flavour (Mar 8, 2015)

Can hipsters save the world?



> ...a new book by the economist Douglas McWilliams, _The Flat White Economy_, suggests that hipsters, and the ecosystem surrounding them, represent the future of British prosperity. Not only are they greener and more ethical than the rest of us, but the industries in which they work are driving our economy. We mock them at our peril.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 8, 2015)

> McWilliams identifies 10 other British areas, including Leeds and Slough, where this kind of economy might take off, but warns that the capital will continue to dominate.



Grrr. Stay the fuck out of my town, you hipster cunts!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 8, 2015)

_



			After this article went to press it emerged that Douglas McWilliams is also facing trial for allegedly assaulting a prostitute on New Year’s Eve.
		
Click to expand...

_
Still flogging his book on the Graun bookshop, though.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Mar 8, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Still flogging his book on the Graun bookshop, though.


and that article (review?) didn't exactly engage in an exacting critique of his obviously shit premise...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 8, 2015)

And anyway, it "emerged" well before the article went to press.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ute-beaten-economist-crack-cocaine-binge.html

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...lish-book-on-top-tories.316022/#post-13752884


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 9, 2015)

OK, so this is Steve Bell's cartoon this morning:







So, what's the joke here?  What is he satirising?  What message is he trying to get across?


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Mar 9, 2015)

The guardian isnt going down the pan the guardian is already down the pan thanks to it's support for teflon tony blair's nu-labour conservative lite clones. Then the guardian pulled the chain with its support for clegg's lib-democrat conservative useful idiots. I stopped buying the rag a decade ago


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, so this is Steve Bell's cartoon this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's an old one-liner (I was about to say coined by Dorothy Parker, but I actually I don't think it was her) that in life you should "try anything once, except incest and folk-dancing".

I mean, one has to draw the line somewhere, old chap.


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 9, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> There's an old one-liner (I was about to say coined by Dorothy Parker, but I actually I don't think it was her) that in life you should "try anything once, except incest and folk-dancing".
> 
> I mean, one has to draw the line somewhere, old chap.


Yes, I'm aware of the quote. Sir Thomas Beecham. But what is Bell trying to say? That the SNP have tried everything once, no exceptions? That Scottish voters have tried everything once? What?

Surely for it to qualify as satire it actually has to mean something?


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, I'm aware of the quote. Sir Thomas Beecham. But what is Bell trying to say? That the SNP have tried everything once, no exceptions? That Scottish voters have tried everything once? What?
> 
> Surely for it to qualify as satire it actually has to mean something?



The message is surely that the SNP is a party for folk-dancing nonces, or to be more precise that the grey mists of a Scottish republic are no substitute for substantive policy pledges like "no trident".


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, so this is Steve Bell's cartoon this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess the joke is in implying that the SNP is parochial and inward-looking.


----------



## Flavour (Mar 9, 2015)

It's a shit cartoon either way


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 9, 2015)

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Arnold_Bax/



> A sympathetic Scot summed it all up very neatly in the remark, "You should make a point of trying every experience once, excepting incest and folk dancing."
> *Sir Arnold Bax*, _Farewell my Youth (1943)_


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

Frankie Jack said:


> http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Arnold_Bax/


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 9, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I guess the joke is in implying that the SNP is parochial and inward-looking.


Well, it could be. But I'm guessing it's the Beecham reference. The question is, what is the relevance of the allusion? 

So far all I'm seeing is "poncy metropolitan elitist refers to well known quote, but omits to give a context. Oh, and 'kilts'".


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 9, 2015)

Frankie Jack said:


> http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Arnold_Bax/


Ok, I stand corrected. I always saw it attributed to Beecham (who was a well known conductor when I was young).


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ok, I stand corrected. I always saw it attributed to Beecham (who was a well known conductor when I was young).


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 9, 2015)

I tried reading a Steve Bell cartoon once.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ok, I stand corrected. I always saw it attributed to Beecham (who was a well known conductor when I was young).


I've seen Beecham attributed too. I'd never heard of Bax till now.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

Frankie Jack said:


> I've seen Beecham attributed too. I'd never heard of Bax till now.



And surely you agree that it sounds very Dorothy Parker-esque, even if it wasn't her?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 9, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> And surely you agree that it sounds very Dorothy Parker-esque, even if it wasn't her?


Indeed. Still baffled as to the context. Does Bell ever explain what his more obscure cartoons mean? It's not the first time I've had no idea what the hell he was on about.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

Frankie Jack said:


> Indeed. Still baffled as to the context. Does Bell ever explain what his more obscure cartoons mean? It's not the first time I've had no idea what the hell he was on about.



I think the phrase you're looking for is "phoning it in". He obviously doesn't like Salmond at all, and it may mean no more than that.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, so this is Steve Bell's cartoon this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



English people don't think it's racist to make fun of Celts.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 9, 2015)

captainmission said:


> A horrible little sneery piece about the death of Konstandinos Scurfield (to add to the chorus of similar guardian pieces).
> 
> In which Deborah Orr calls his death a pointless waste, that his parents only support his sacrifice out of loyalty and there's a moral equivalence of him joining the YPG and someone joining ISIS.



That's an excellent piece.  Most of their vehement supporters in Britain have no idea what the YPG are about.  And she's absolutely right about the dangers of anti-Islamism.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

You do realise don't you, phil, that Marilyn was just a nurse doing her job?


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 9, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> I got the Guardian Weekly today, and it includes a piece by her husband reviewing a book about Prince Charles, which concludes that the heir of sorrows is a bloody nice bloke actually. Because Chaz has allegedly smoked a spliff or two in his day.



A man in a pub toilet told me that 20 years ago.  I thought he was crazy.  Now it turns out he was Will Self.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 9, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> You do realise don't you, phil, that Marilyn was just a nurse doing her job?



Who?


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> A man in a pub toilet told me that 20 years ago.  I thought he was crazy.  Now it turns out he was Will Self.



A little from column A, a little from column B.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> Who?



Just go back to the hospital, phil. They'll take care of you there.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 9, 2015)

I was treated to toynbee  on the sunday beeb polotics show yesterday (I was waiting for the tech show Click)

one of the blokes on the panel was so virulently tory I found myself backing Toynbee . Surreal.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 9, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Just go back to the hospital, phil. They'll take care of you there.



They're too busy with your Mum's syphilis.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 9, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> They're too busy with your Mum's syphilis.



At least I have a Mum, and wasn't hatched in a jam jar, like _certain people I could mention. _


----------



## Greebo (Mar 9, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> They're too busy with your Mum's syphilis.


Be that as it may, off line now.  That means all of it!


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 9, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Be that as it may, off line now.  That means all of it!



Yes yes, I'm going...


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 9, 2015)

What a glorious tangle of mis-attributions and cross references. I too thought that the Bax quote was Beecham. I don't think that Bell had Salmond in his sights here, just the current leader of the SNP  whom he depicted almost unrecognisably in that cartoon. I have forgotten her name and can't be bothered to look of it up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 9, 2015)

nicola sturgeon

I'm hoping the snp continue electing leaders with fishy names.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nicola sturgeon
> 
> I'm hoping the snp continue electing leaders with fishy names.


Yes Nicola Sturgeon, she can be quite formidable, I saw her on BBC Parliament recently fielding questions from a Select Committee very adroitly.


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 9, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> English people don't think it's racist to make fun of Celts.


I don't think the cartoon is racist. But I can't be sure, because I have no idea what he's on about. Except I'm bored with cartoons of Scottish politicians in kilts. I've never seen Salmond in a kilt. He certainly doesn't make a habit of wearing them. 

Cartoonists need to do better than: "Scottish -> kilt. Lol."


----------



## JTG (Mar 9, 2015)

I remember Bell doing a cartoon during the referendum depicting Salmond as a chip shop owner deep frying Mars Bars. Because that's all Scottish people eat, lol


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 9, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> OK, so this is Steve Bell's cartoon this morning:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dunno who's that supposed to be? Elton John or Bernie Ecclestone?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 9, 2015)

I think that the reason Steve Bell has got away with crashing unfunniness for so long is that next to Doonesbury, anything would appear to be light relief.


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 9, 2015)

JTG said:


> I remember Bell doing a cartoon during the referendum depicting Salmond as a chip shop owner deep frying Mars Bars. Because that's all Scottish people eat, lol


I don't remember that, because if I do read the Guardian, I don't look at Bell. 

(I saw this because it's being shared on social media).


----------



## Sue (Mar 9, 2015)

Steve Bell is utterly shite. This is utterly shite. Why do people think he's funny? (Assume someone must or he wouldn't still have a job.)


----------



## Santino (Mar 9, 2015)

I was not finding Steve Bell funny years ago.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 9, 2015)

the broadsheets don't do funny cartoons on the whole


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 9, 2015)

i think it was sometime in my mid-20s when i realised that Steve Bell was shit.  it was a weird moment.  i looked at one of his cartoons and it was shit, and lazy, and kind of offensive, just like that one dlr posted.  i said to myself, he can't be shit, he's _steve bell_.  steve bell isn't shit.  everyone clever likes steve bell.  but it didn't go away.  instead of biting satire i saw easy targets.  instead of cunning surrealism i saw gibberish non-jokes taken to extremes.  anyway, long story short, it turned out that i'd never actually bothered to really think about it before and since then i've realised its a stage that everyone has to go through in their recovery from liberalism.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 9, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> the broadsheets don't do funny cartoons on the whole



Matt in the Telegraph is the only one I can think of that even tries.


----------



## Celyn (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm sure was he was often a bit funny in the 1980s, although I could easily be wrong.  But, yes, for the last (very long while), he's been pretty rubbish.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 10, 2015)

The bell cartoon is part of a strip - so may make more sense seen with the others - his "If" strip has always been pretty patchy at best though. I think his stand alone cartoons still produce the goods on a regular basis.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 10, 2015)

*ponders whether to post classic cartoon demonstrating _the paulsgroves of the mind _ of bell and the guardian or if it's been done too many times"


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> *ponderes whether to post classic cartoon demonstrating _the paulsgroves of the mind _ of bell and the guardian or if it's been done too many times"



treat yourself


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 10, 2015)

Oh go on then:


----------



## captainmission (Mar 10, 2015)

phildwyer said:


> That's an excellent piece.  Most of their vehement supporters in Britain have no idea what the YPG are about.  And she's absolutely right about the dangers of anti-Islamism.



A piece by a oxbridge type, full of moral relativism and spurious insinuations of islamaphobia? Motivated not by any real conviction, but a desperate need to be contrarian? I can't image why you'd find it excellent.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2015)

Take a look at @JMPolish's Tweet:


----------



## teqniq (Mar 11, 2015)

This is from Dec 2014 so someone may have already posted it (I gave up looking at this thread quite some time ago).

Why the Guardian axed Nafeez Ahmed’s blog


----------



## J Ed (Mar 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Take a look at @JMPolish's Tweet:




My OH is currently doing 3 of the 5 and she is still a qt


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 15, 2015)

wally: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/11/mainstream-left-silencing-sympathetic-voices


----------



## rekil (Mar 16, 2015)

The liberal mind.

Why the Louvre Abu Dhabi is worth celebrating, despite its dark side


> Nothing excuses the inhuman working conditions that have been reported. But I suspect that when it opens, this audacious new museum will be admired as a world destination and artistic treasure house. And so it should be.


----------



## JimW (Mar 16, 2015)

copliker said:


> The liberal mind.
> 
> Why the Louvre Abu Dhabi is worth celebrating, despite its dark side


Fucking hell. Good spot.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 16, 2015)

It is right to be concerned about worker abuses. But it would be deeply destructive to refuse for that reason to celebrate an eye-opening new museum.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 16, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/15/egyot-sharma-el-sheikh-rumbles-grand-promises



> The narrative at the conference has been that this is all so very new. From the plenary hall stage to the bustling bilateral meeting rooms, the sponsored lunch tables to the specially commissioned ‘Marketplace’ smartphone app – where ‘leaders and game-changers’ can arrange to come together for ‘brain dates’, a sort of *neoliberal Tinder* – there is an all-pervasive aura of buoyant razzmatazz, as if nobody can quite believe how fresh and positive Sisi’s Egypt feels


----------



## JTG (Mar 17, 2015)

Just why are people choosing to eat Wetherspoons' cheap tasty breakfasts? 

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...people-flocking-to-wetherspoons-for-breakfast

A mystery worth investigating


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Same reason normal people don't go to the guardian's pop-up cafe #GuardianCoffee i suppose.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 17, 2015)

only the guardian could get an article out of 'spoons breakfasting.


----------



## JTG (Mar 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> only the guardian could get an article out of 'spoons breakfasting.


They treat such reportage as safari expeditions, reporting back to their readership on the inexplicable curiosities of the world


----------



## Sue (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Same reason normal people don't go to the guardian's pop-up cafe #GuardianCoffee i suppose.



If that's the one in Shoreditch,  it closed down recently.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Sue said:


> If that's the one in Shoreditch,  it closed down recently.


I suspected it might have but couldn't find anything saying so. Can we expect the first guardian wetherspoons type boozer to pop up somewhere soon do we think? Rustic wednesday club? Toast tuesdays?


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2015)

These are the stories that matter. 

Louis, a 17-year-old ginger tom, accused of pouncing ‘like a wild lion in the jungle’ on to unsuspecting pet pooch’s head in Wells, Somerset


----------



## Sue (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I suspected it might have but couldn't find anything saying so. Can we expect the first guardian wetherspoons type boozer to pop up somewhere soon do we think? Rustic wednesday club? Toast tuesdays?


Walk past it every day and don't really pay it much attention but noticed it'd closed maybe three or four weeks ago.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

editor said:


> These are the stories that matter.
> 
> Louis, a 17-year-old ginger tom, accused of pouncing ‘like a wild lion in the jungle’ on to unsuspecting pet pooch’s head in Wells, Somerset


don't knock it, it's the best-written story of the day


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 17, 2015)

the only remarkable thing about that story is an ancient old tom still having the furry balls to take on a hound


----------



## JTG (Mar 17, 2015)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...ated-by-wetherspoons-breakfasts-2015031796347


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

I liked the idea from the article - not the shit uni-viz one- that there is an obesity problem and it's down to wetherspoons. And localised in boston.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I liked the idea from the article - not the shit uni-viz one- that there is an obesity problem and it's down to wetherspoons. And localised in boston.


if you're after good fish and chips i can heartily recommend the wetherspoons by grimsby station.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 18, 2015)

It's funny that Guardian journos go in Wetherspoons and leave concluding that the other people are the weird ones.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if you're after good fish and chips i can heartily recommend the wetherspoons by grimsby station.


there are better fish and chips in Grimsby


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> there are better fish and chips in Grimsby


i know. but the ones in that pub better than many places in london.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

I've no doubt, good fish n chips in London are like hens teeth


----------



## NoXion (Mar 18, 2015)

For the past few months I've been enjoying an occasional Large Mixed Grill and a pint (or two. Or three) at my local Wetherspoons. Good stuff, although the cooking of the steak can be a bit... inconsistent? I dunno, some days it's a little bit too chewy and other days it's perfectly succulent and tender.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 19, 2015)

http://www.peterhousemayball2015.com/#/sponsors


----------



## DRINK? (Mar 20, 2015)

Piers Morgan editor? Christ


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 20, 2015)

Katharine Viner named as Harry Potter's successor:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/20/guardian-appoints-katharine-viner-new-editor-in-chief



> Educated at Ripon Grammar School and the University of Oxford Viner spent three years at the Sunday Times before joining the Guardian. Her first job was with Cosmopolitan magazine. The last Guardian editor who attended a state school is understood to be Alfred Wadsworth, editor between 1944 to 1956.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 21, 2015)

Is a scion of a fascist who is married to a lying neoliberal toad the most likable woman in British politics?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 24, 2015)

Kelvin Mackenzie

Really. Really. Really.


----------



## rekil (Mar 25, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Kelvin Mackenzie
> 
> Really. Really. Really.


Did you mean the one where he claims he's not racist actually?



> I don’t think newcomers should get benefits and free health service for the first six months, except in real emergencies. Asians and black people or eastern Europeans aren’t all angels. Nor are white people. There’s good and bad in everyone.


He writes like a 12 year old doing his homework on the bus.


----------



## The Pale King (Mar 25, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...youre-stuck-in-a-style-rut-and-how-to-get-out

The only thing worse than misjudging an outfit is holding on to a trend too long. What was once an on-point ensemble now looks like a horrific retread...


...Horrific, if you please. On-point? Get tae France!


----------



## J Ed (Mar 25, 2015)

This year the must have trend fashion accessory is wearing the face of an Oxbridge Guardian journo who has recently been flayed alive


----------



## brogdale (Mar 28, 2015)

Dripping with condescension...


> Nine years later, I realise that, despite its gorgeous location, the Pavilion is a shitehole boozer that sells horrible food, the children are still stuck to their screens, despite our best efforts (including joining the sailing club: brief pause for the hollowest of laughs at that one), and something nasty is stirring in my adopted home town.





> I ran a tiny cafe, selling the crab sandwiches I couldn’t find elsewhere. But I gave up: the introduction of one of the UK’s first lobster rolls was treated with as much suspicion as if I’d labelled them Bulgarian Homosexual Wedding Pies. A Pearly King from Ramsgate swore violently for a good 10 minutes because we couldn’t do him a fried egg sandwich.There’s a faction here that regards innovation with jittery distaste, and that extends to incomers. Urban refugees are dismissed as DFLs (Down From Londoners), irrespective of where we come from (I’m from Scotland, so I guess that makes me a DFS).





> Murray is clearly all about Murray, his pint-toting, “British moon on a stick” shtick a parody of Ukip’s main man. But the irony seems lost on a number of Thanet voters, who reckon he’s quite the card.





> It’s a bitter evening, sea winds strafing the sand as we trudge towards the Walpole Bay hotel in Cliftonville, a self-styled “living museum” where I once saw a punch-up between pensioners over a draughty window. Tracey Emin is a regular.





> A man in a linen suit and panama hat sweeps past into the hotel, looking for all the world like Colonel Sanders; he’s by far the nattiest dressed of the Kippers who, on this showing, seem to be late-middle-aged women in bad anoraks.



So there we have it; a shithole full of ignorant, un-welcoming, violent, badly dressed ingrates who wouldn't buy her crab sandwiches. Scum.

e2a : missed this one...


> Placards here are mostly of the “Frack off Farage” variety, but there are some deliciously “Down with this sort of thing” efforts: “Dear Ukip, it’s not too late to change your mind”; “Racism is illogical, Captain”; *“Ukip in, Waitrose closes” (admittedly that last is the work of my husband).*


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 28, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Dripping with condescension...



‘Dripping’ brings to mind the likes of lard; how about ‘drizzled’?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 28, 2015)

that is horrid.  and why couldn't they do him a fucking fried egg sandwich?  what sort of a caff CAN'T do a fried egg sandwich ffs?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 28, 2015)

i mean, you have a hard day pearly kinging and all you want is a cup of proper tea and a fried egg sandwich and some guardian reading ponce in the caff is like "we can't do that, why not have a lobster roll instead".  it's enough to make you hand in your pearls.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 28, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> that is horrid.  and why couldn't they do him a fucking fried egg sandwich?  what sort of a caff CAN'T do a fried egg sandwich ffs?



Every caff I've ever been in, if you wanted something "off menu", they were happy to do it for you after agreeing a fair price if they had the ingredients. I suspect she deliberately limited her menu in order to attract the "right" kind of clientele (for her).


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 28, 2015)

They're writing puff pieces for the Rockefeller Foundation now:
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...-fund-chairman-moral-duty-divest-fossil-fuels

Ooh look who sponsors Guardian Cities: http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/mar/26/what-most-private-city-world


----------



## J Ed (Mar 28, 2015)

UKIP in, Waitrose closes? LOL


----------



## J Ed (Mar 29, 2015)

Oh wow, there is a picture of it... and a sign which they didn't mention in the article though I suppose they didn't need to


----------



## brogdale (Mar 29, 2015)

"*Thick scum*"

Wow.


----------



## Belushi (Mar 29, 2015)

Jesus fucking Christ


----------



## brogdale (Mar 29, 2015)

J Ed is that real?


----------



## Brechin Sprout (Mar 29, 2015)

I was in a curry house many moons ago when one of the braying hoorahs on the next table demanded a platE of rice with a raw egg broken over it. The previous posters would no doubt have been as outraged as the hoorahs by the waiters polite refusal. It was obvious to me that he was saying that they didn't have any raw eggs (obviously to keep the plebs out!!!) but the hoorahs decided he was thick and foreign and needed an education in what they were asking for. Kept repeating themselves over and over, loudly and slowly. I was forced to quote poetry at them: DH Lawrence - How beastly the bourgeois is, especially the male of the species. I obviously got it all wrong, they weren't hoorahs, merely horny-handed sons of toil rightfully demanding their birthright of eggs wherever they chose to eat.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 29, 2015)

brogdale said:


> J Ed is that real?



Yeah, there is a link to it in the article you linked. She is proud of her husband's work.


----------



## Belushi (Mar 29, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Yeah, there is a link to it in the article you linked. She is proud of her husband's work.



It's obvious from the carefully arranged tableau above the signs. A NutriBullet, vintage radio and a fruit bowl full of produce a prole like me doesn't recognise. It could only be the work of a guardian writer.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 29, 2015)

Brechin Sprout said:


> I was in a curry house many moons ago when one of the braying hoorahs on the next table demanded a platE of rice with a raw egg broken over it. The previous posters would no doubt have been as outraged as the hoorahs by the waiters polite refusal. It was obvious to me that he was saying that they didn't have any raw eggs (obviously to keep the plebs out!!!) but the hoorahs decided he was thick and foreign and needed an education in what they were asking for. Kept repeating themselves over and over, loudly and slowly. I was forced to quote poetry at them: DH Lawrence - How beastly the bourgeois is, especially the male of the species. I obviously got it all wrong, they weren't hoorahs, merely horny-handed sons of toil rightfully demanding their birthright of eggs wherever they chose to eat.



The author of the article literally calls the person a pearly king, I very much doubt he was in the full regalia so why do you imagine the author said that? I suspect because the bloke who wanted a fried egg sarnie was too old for the author to label a 'chav'. The whole piece is a screed of class hatred and if you can't see that then it says a lot about you.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 29, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Yeah, there is a link to it in the article you linked. She is proud of her husband's work.



Need to pay more attention.

It's just that it's so "_Wow_" that I thought for a moment that it had to be shopped; that no-one could actually make such a placard (seriously) and carry it in public. But no, you're quite right...it's there, for real...and on her twitter account (don't go there!)!

So it turns out that she's some 'mystery' food crit, and very concerned to keep her identity hidden. Hmmm....with even more reason now. Wonder if the 'kippers will out her? Addresses can't be that hard to find? Mind you, her Wiki entry suggests that she might have more than one.


----------



## Belushi (Mar 31, 2015)

Have they actually gone mental?

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-bandq-lesbians-bad-news-diy?CMP=share_btn_tw


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2015)

Is that not published a day early?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 31, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Have they actually gone mental?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-bandq-lesbians-bad-news-diy?CMP=share_btn_tw





> Anyway, this straight friend was in the car with us before we could say “drill bits” looking almost coquettish at the idea of lezzering it up in such style.



Oh my lord.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 31, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Is that not published a day early?



Well spotted but April fools day has been cancelled this year.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Unless I'm being a bit dim, this is '_real', _I think...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/04/election-special-politicians-do-blind-date



Spoiler: Worst 'stuck in lift' nightmare ever...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 4, 2015)

it is real and totally mental


----------



## treelover (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Dripping with condescension...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bordering on a hate article..


----------



## treelover (Apr 4, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Oh wow, there is a picture of it... and a sign which they didn't mention in the article though I suppose they didn't need to



Note the nutri-bullet and the Dab radio, it could almost be a spoof.

Oops, just saw Belushi's post


----------



## belboid (Apr 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Unless I'm being a bit dim, this is '_real', _I think...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/04/election-special-politicians-do-blind-date
> 
> ...


I think Alexander thought he was in


----------



## rioted (Apr 5, 2015)

J Ed said:


> The author of the article literally calls the person a pearly king, I very much doubt he was in the full regalia so why do you imagine the author said that? I suspect because the bloke who wanted a fried egg sarnie was too old for the author to label a 'chav'. The whole piece is a screed of class hatred and if you can't see that then it says a lot about you.


you need to get away from this idea that the working class has shared cultural values, lifestyle and thoughts. The ONLY thing that unites the class is its relation to capital. It's fuck all to do with eggs.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 5, 2015)

rioted said:


> you need to get away from this idea that the working class has shared cultural values, lifestyle and thoughts. The ONLY thing that unites the class is its relation to capital. It's fuck all to do with eggs.



Well, it's a bit like racism isn't it? Racism is based on pseudoscience and it is a social constrution but that does not make the repetition of, and implementation of policy on the basis of, racist tropes any less an assertion of a particular power dynamic between more and less powerful groups. This person, who is a force of gentrification and an entrepreneurial capitalist, is asserting her supposed superiority over those around her by mocking their taste in food and their general tradition both of which she attempts to associate with the sort of barbarism that leads the uncivilised to support UKIP. The sort of barbarism of 'thick scum' which drives out forces for good like Waitrose. There is NO other reason to bring up these cultural identifiers in this piece, if the author of the piece were in certain parts of London an equivalent piece might include a discussion of the phrenology of the author's working-class interlopers though of course that sort of piece would not find its way into a mainstream newspaper and neither should this have.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 11, 2015)

Lol...this just doesn't add up for me...


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 11, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Lol...this just doesn't add up for me...


"Hippy will tell you what the real crime is."


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2015)

It doesn't get you bad english grades, but being detrimental to the skill of mathematics I find convincing because I've been part of a group of stoners failing to work out who owes what towards the shop run.

and also because I have very poor grasp of maths that goes above arithmetic or geometry.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 11, 2015)

Belushi said:


> a fruit bowl full of produce a prole like me doesn't recognise.



Thick scum


----------



## smokedout (Apr 11, 2015)

surprised no-one has posted this yet: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/10/seach-for-21st-century-socialists-zoe-williams



> Rosie Rogers, 28, and I are sitting in a tipi outside her office in Highbury, London. (She works for [URL='http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/']Greenpeace





> as a political adviser – of course they have a tipi.) I’m on a quest to find the British left


[/URL]



> We’re probably what the labour movement was like a long time ago, but this time it’s participatory, it’s consensus-based, it’s dynamic, it’s fun and it’s got baby change and fuck loads of hummus.



it made me want to cry


----------



## JTG (Apr 11, 2015)

smokedout said:


> surprised no-one has posted this yet: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/10/seach-for-21st-century-socialists-zoe-williams
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Christ


----------



## gosub (Apr 11, 2015)

Well I think she is 100% right in saying the original labour movement didn't have tepees humus or baby changing facilities


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 11, 2015)

Is a tipi a teepee that red Indians used to live in but spelled deliberately  poncified to momentarily confuse thick scum like me ?

Why?....in gods name... are they in one ?


----------



## JTG (Apr 11, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Is a tipi a teepee that red Indians used to live in but spelled deliberately  poncified to momentarily confuse thick scum like me ?
> 
> Why?....in gods name... are they in one ?


Because they're fucking idiots


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 11, 2015)

In a fucking teepee in the middle of a capital city ...munching fucking hummus


----------



## JTG (Apr 11, 2015)

> In these movements, we all shag each other, we all hang out. The only time I see my 12 closest friends is at meetings.


Translation: we're an incestuous clique who don't have any real life experience and can't relate to anybody normal



> he difference between right and left politics, this division is no longer useful. The only thing it achieves is division and confrontation. It’s used by politicians to manipulate people. It’s based on ideologies that have very little to do with the reality that people live in.



Vapid bollocks


----------



## Nylock (Apr 11, 2015)

smokedout said:


> surprised no-one has posted this yet: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/10/seach-for-21st-century-socialists-zoe-williams
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuck me....


----------



## tufty79 (Apr 11, 2015)

smokedout said:


> it made me want to cry


It made me incredibly thankful that my browser, for reasons known only to itself, crashes whenever it encounters the guardian - at best it'll get me to halfway through an article before crumbling in despair.


----------



## belboid (Apr 14, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/13/troll-pickup-artist-online-internet

How Sam Wollaston trolled a scummy pickup artist.  Except he doesnt try and troll him at all, he sends one, single, tweet, in which he says, incredibly politely, that he doesn't like the 'artist'


----------



## tbtommyb (Apr 14, 2015)

smokedout said:


> surprised no-one has posted this yet: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/10/seach-for-21st-century-socialists-zoe-williams
> 
> it made me want to cry



I was going to post a thread on it but just couldn't bring myself to do so. Zoe Williams lurches between good writing and terrible lifestyle stuff - this is the later.

It presented these people as being activists as a lifestyle choice and didn't even bother to get into any of their reasons for joining the various protests.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 14, 2015)

tbtommyb said:


> I was going to post a thread on it but just couldn't bring myself to do so. Zoe Williams lurches between good writing and terrible lifestyle stuff - this is the later.
> 
> It presented these people as being activists as a lifestyle choice and didn't even bother to get into any of their reasons for joining the various protests.


 
How about this then: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-side-are-you-on-seven-protest-need-your-help? It appeared alongside bee keeping, homebrewing and trapeeze fitness.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 15, 2015)

Run up to the election and the Guardian are falling in with their heroes the LDs again 
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-lib-dem-ukip-manifestos-world-of-difference


----------



## treelover (Apr 15, 2015)

smokedout said:


> surprised no-one has posted this yet: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/10/seach-for-21st-century-socialists-zoe-williams
> 
> 
> 
> ...




WTF, what is Zoe playing at, is there any mention of Unite Community, for instance, who are doing sterling work, no hipsters*, just working slowly and methodically on basic bread and butter issues.

*having said that there have always been 'hip' people involved in radical movements.


----------



## treelover (Apr 15, 2015)

> UK Uncut, which has a network of 80,000 people, opposes corporate tax avoidance and austerity measures, in whatever way they think will work.



has it, sadly its seems to have largely disappeared.


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

Now I have read the article, its much better that I first thought, she is saying what is obvious, there are tens of thousands, maybe many many more who identify as left, there just aren't any viable mass projects to cohere around. Though the left she seems to wants into existence might not be the type many on here would desire. I went to a Festival Of Debate meeting here about local democracy, there were loads of people there, mostly under 25, all the sessions have been as packed, so there is an interest in progressive politics and social justice, even maybe socialism, just not the vehicles.

Oh, and one revealing thing, the SWP are nowhere to be seen in the article.


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...o-rebrand-them-say-iain-duncan-smith#comments

Some thing a bit more serious, the Guardian has published an opinion piece by Duncan Smith(very quiet in the election) on 'rebranding zero hour contracts', wtf, if I bought the G I would cancel it, they have form with allowing that scum print space.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 17, 2015)

You've linked, not to an opinion piece by IDS, but to a straightforward report detailing what he said. Did you link to the wrong thing, or do you just misunderstand newspapers and reporting?


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...o-rebrand-them-say-iain-duncan-smith#comments
> 
> Some thing a bit more serious, the Guardian has published an opinion piece by Duncan Smith(very quiet in the election) on 'rebranding zero hour contracts', wtf, if I bought the G I would cancel it, they have form with allowing that scum print space.


No they haven't  they are reporting what he said on the telly.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> You've linked, not to an opinion piece by IDS, but to a straightforward report detailing what he said. Did you link to the wrong thing, or do you just misunderstand newspapers and reporting?


You make me sick. I'd take concerned stupidity over sneering whatever it is that _you _are any day.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> You make me sick.



Delighted to hear it. I hope it's debilitating; I only wish it could be fatal.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> It doesn't get you bad english grades, but being detrimental to the skill of mathematics I find convincing because I've been part of a group of stoners failing to work out who owes what towards the shop run.
> 
> and also because I have very poor grasp of maths that goes above arithmetic or geometry.


if you've ever gone to the bar to order drinks for five people, each of whom have given you some money and all of whom want some change you'll soon find out just how complicated arithmetick can be. no wonder people buy rounds: it might be more expensive but it's fucking simpler.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Delighted to hear it. I hope it's debilitating; I only wish it could be fatal.


Look everyone, a ;


Style.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 17, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Delighted to hear it. I hope it's debilitating; I only wish it could be fatal.


you're the sort of person whose insides ought to decorate the pavement.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Delighted to hear it. I hope it's debilitating; I only wish it could be fatal.


The gay plague.


----------



## rekil (Apr 23, 2015)

Politicians deserve a better electorate

"If voters wake up on 8 May furious with the election result, they only have themselves to blame"



> Millions are wonderful, of course, they watch those arid TV debates and (it is reported) look up “austerity” on Wikipedia. They follow events and, rain or shine, they will vote, especially the old. Hey kids, have you ever wondered why you have tuition fees and we have free bus passes?
> 
> But millions more, not just the poor and demoralised, will forget, shrug or even boast “I never vote” before turning back to something that seems more important: football, golf, Spotify, Britain’s Got Talent. They don’t bother to engage, let alone to make the connections between what happens to them and the difficult policy choices that bring it about, good or bad.



He's getting paid for this.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2015)

that pompous cunt michael shite. In full  moany mode


----------



## JTG (Apr 23, 2015)

copliker said:


> Politicians deserve a better electorate
> 
> "If voters wake up on 8 May furious with the election result, they only have themselves to blame"
> 
> ...


Christ


----------



## andysays (Apr 23, 2015)

copliker said:


> Politicians deserve a better electorate
> 
> "If voters wake up on 8 May furious with the election result, they only have themselves to blame"





> Some Guardian hack decreed that the people had lost the commentariat's confidence and could only regain it with redoubled effort.
> If that is the case, would it not be simpler if the commentariat simply dissolved the people and appointed another?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 23, 2015)

copliker said:


> Politicians deserve a better electorate
> 
> "If voters wake up on 8 May furious with the election result, they only have themselves to blame"
> 
> ...


Oh god it's White. Can't someone wrap a cricket bat around his face.


----------



## Blagsta (Apr 29, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/29/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-courage-pen-award

Defends Charlie Hebdo on the grounds of free speech yet still paints them as racist. Refers to an article explaining why CH are not anti immigrant and tries to use it as evidence that CH are anti immigrant. Unbelievable stuff.


----------



## treelover (Apr 29, 2015)

> After the uprising of June 17th
> 
> The Secretary of the Authors' Union
> 
> ...



Time for the Brecht.


----------



## treelover (Apr 29, 2015)

> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ip-final-week-election-conservatives#comments
> 
> David Cameron: it's time for Tory campaign to let rip in final week




Guardian has given Cameron a major piece, what are they up to?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Guardian has given Cameron a major piece, what are they up to?


perhaps they think their readership might be interested to see what shit cameron's coming out with?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Guardian has given Cameron a major piece, what are they up to?


here you go treelover http://www.theguardian.com/info/complaints-and-corrections put in a complaint.

tell you what, next time something arouses your ire, why not put a complaint in instead of whining about it on here and not doing anything to make the situation better?


----------



## dishevelled (Apr 29, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/29/charlie-hebdo-cartoons-courage-pen-award
> 
> Defends Charlie Hebdo on the grounds of free speech yet still paints them as racist. Refers to an article explaining why CH are not anti immigrant and tries to use it as evidence that CH are anti immigrant. Unbelievable stuff.



The Guardian is doing a good job of  turning into another shit paper. Charlie Hebdo here is taking over the newstands like a prairie fire.


----------



## treelover (Apr 29, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> here you go treelover http://www.theguardian.com/info/complaints-and-corrections put in a complaint.
> 
> tell you what, next time something arouses your ire, why not put a complaint in instead of whining about it on here and not doing anything to make the situation better?




Do fuck off, this is a discussion board, its a significant development, why do you do this?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Do fuck off, this is a discussion board, its a significant development, why do you do this?


oh do give over  this is as you say a discussion board but it's not your fucking discussion board. i see you're prepared to whine about this but you're not prepared to actually DO anything about it. that's you all over, whine, whinge, moan: but heaven forfend you get off your lazy arse and actually do something


----------



## dendrite (Apr 29, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> here you go treelover http://www.theguardian.com/info/complaints-and-corrections put in a complaint.
> 
> tell you what, next time something arouses your ire, why not put a complaint in instead of whining about it on here and not doing anything to make the situation better?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

dendrite said:


>


126 pages to godwin's ain't bad.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 29, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh do give over  this is as you say a discussion board but it's not your fucking discussion board. i see you're prepared to whine about this but you're not prepared to actually DO anything about it. that's you all over, whine, whinge, moan: but heaven forfend you get off your lazy arse and actually do something



Would complaining to the Guardian really count as "doing something" if all it achieves is getting a standard "thank you for your concerns" form letter in reply?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2015)

NoXion said:


> Would complaining to the Guardian really count as "doing something" if all it achieves is getting a standard "thank you for your concerns" form letter in reply?


it would be treelover's supreme achievement.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 29, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> it would be treelover's supreme achievement.



So it's not actually about "doing something", it's about pointless ragging on someone you've taken a dislike to. Thank you for clearing that up.


----------



## Santino (Apr 29, 2015)

treelover said:


> Guardian has given Cameron a major piece, what are they up to?


Pandering to the class interests of the majority of their readership.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 6, 2015)

How to eat a cheese sandwich:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/may/05/how-to-eat-a-cheese-sandwich?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2015)

that reads like alan patridge


----------



## Belushi (May 6, 2015)

I'm surprised they haven't got one of those workshops they're always trying to push, £99 and Jay Rayner shows you how to eat a sandwich.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2015)

next up: how to eat a toasted cheese sarnie (the answer is caerphilly)


----------



## Dogsauce (May 6, 2015)

Any advice on eating bacon sandwiches?


----------



## Sue (May 6, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I'm surprised they haven't got one of those workshops they're always trying to push, £99 and Jay Rayner shows you how to eat a sandwich.



I'd run one for 50 quid,if anyone's interested. I'd even throw in a free cheese sarnie for all attendees.


----------



## treelover (May 9, 2015)

Expect a sharp turn to the right for the Guardian, Jonathan Freedland, its exec editor, was on Newsnight, saying we have tried the left, time to go back to the winning formula, he means Blair.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 12, 2015)

Gaze on this and marvel (Lionel Shriver thinks that if only 'the left' would stop being beastly and horrid to those poor Tory voters there would be better polls and better public discourse):

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/12/polls-shy-tories-left-conservatives


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 12, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Gaze on this and marvel (Lionel Shriver thinks that if only 'the left' would stop being beastly and horrid to those poor Tory voters there would be better polls and better public discourse):
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/12/polls-shy-tories-left-conservatives



She's kind of right, lets lull em into a false sense of security and then we can fill the list out properly.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 12, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> He's kind of right, lets lull em into a false sense of security and then we can fill the list out properly.



Lionel Shriver is a woman.


----------



## Flavour (May 16, 2015)

*The Guardian view on the Liberal Democrats: missing them already *

Don't worry, we're not!


----------



## treelover (May 18, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/18/labour-cannot-let-unions-decide-next-leader


Guardian really coming out for the Blairites, lots of articles attacking the Unions, etc, even Suzanne Moore is doing it.

What about Camerons secret donors?


----------



## killer b (May 18, 2015)

Even Suzanne Moore!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

killer b said:


> Even Suzanne Moore!


would you adam and eve it


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...exist-until-you-take-a-look-at-your-bookshelf


----------



## killer b (May 18, 2015)

.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...exist-until-you-take-a-look-at-your-bookshelf


you really do hate women don't you?


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> you really do hate women don't you?



MRAs seem to seriously hate Valenti in particular for some reason. I don't think that most of her articles are that memorable but I love the title of this article


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> you really do hate women don't you?



No.  I just think that article is a load of bollocks is all.  In my time, I've serially bought albums by the likes of Bjork and PJ Harvey.  I buy my 'art' depending on whether it piques my interest (or not) - I don't feel a need to maintain some sort of PC quota.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> No.  I just think that article is a load of bollocks is all.  In my time, I've serially bought albums by the likes of Bjork and PJ Harvey.  I buy my 'art' depending on whether it piques my interest (or not) - I don't feel a need to maintain some sort of PC quota.


you hate women AND you haven't read the article. well done.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I buy my 'art' depending on whether it piques my interest (or not) - I don't feel a need to maintain some sort of PC quota.



Fascist!


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> you hate women AND you haven't read the article. well done.



You are better than this OU.   I have read the article.  I don't think this is the thread to get into an in depth discussion on the topic.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2015)

I'm more offended by the first line of that god-awful article, to be honest.



> Director and screenwriter John Waters once said: “If you go home with somebody, and they don’t have books, don’t fuck ‘em!” Wise words



Just fuck off right now you snooty liberal shit.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> I'm more offended by the first line of that god-awful article, to be honest.


I agree with Waters.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I agree with Waters.



Why?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Fascist!



Yes, imagine buying art that interests you rather than to fulfil a PC quota!!  Worse than Hitler!

I posed a couple of questions btl.  One of my fave books of recent years is Never Let Me Go - written by a man, but narrated by a female character.  How does that figure in the picture?  Would have I been less sexist by devoting the time to reading 50 Shades of Grey instead?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You are better than this OU.   I have read the article.  I don't think this is the thread to get into an in depth discussion on the topic.


you should be prepared to back up your shite. you never do though.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Why?


i wouldn't want to shag someone who had no books.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Yes, imagine buying art that interests you rather than to fulfil a PC quota!!  Worse than Hitler!
> 
> I posed a couple of questions btl.  One of my fave books of recent years is Never Let Me Go - written by a man, but narrated by a female character.  How does that figure in the picture?  Would have I been less sexist by devoting the time to reading 50 Shades of Grey instead?


where does she say one should have a quota?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> i wouldn't want to shag someone who had no books.



Yes, we've established that. But why?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Yes, we've established that. But why?


it's not sexy


----------



## JimW (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> it's not sexy


You could carry some round in a bag with you and scatter them about if it helped.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> it's not sexy



I think this says more about your prejudices than it does about your preferences.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> where does she say one should have a quota?



She's clearly suggesting one should have a minimum number of books by female writers.  If you don't have any books written by homosexuals/non-whites/disabled authors, does that also make you something-ist?  In actually not caring about the creator, just the quality of the art and whether it interests me, I'd argue I easily transcend any sort of -isms.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> I think this says more about your prejudices than it does about your preferences.


no, it shows that i like to have something in common with the people i get close to, that's all.


----------



## frogwoman (May 18, 2015)

Oh god.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 18, 2015)

God, I read the comments. _Never read the comments._


----------



## killer b (May 18, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> God, I read the comments. _Never read the comments._


it was like Johnny in a hall of mirrors.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> She's clearly suggesting one should have a minimum number of books by female writers.


No she isn't. You either haven't read it or have read it with your usual blinkered misogynistic agenda.


----------



## killer b (May 18, 2015)

All my books are in storage atm - my new girlfriend clearly had that John Waters quote in mind when she nervously asked me a few weeks in where all my books were.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> God, I read the comments. _Never read the comments._



This one is quite good though.



> JohnNMIWelsh
> 11h ago
> I just looked at the top row of my nearest bookshelf, and more than half of the books are written by women.
> But since I'm a massive, massive sexist, I think we're going to need a better test.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> No she isn't. You either haven't read it or have read it with your usual blinkered misogynistic agenda.



You're being a numpty.  Explain to me why a misogynist would have been buying albums by Bjork and PJ Harvey... or love Mad Men, a programme with strong female characters and AFAIK has a number of female writers.  I apply the same standards to female artists as I do male artists - they must make stuff that I see the quality in for me to buy it.  I don't see how you can get any less sexist than that.  You're the one hung up on gender - not me.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You're being a numpty.  Explain to me why a misogynist would have been buying albums by Bjork and PJ Harvey... or love Mad Men, a programme with strong female characters and AFAIK has a number of female writers.  I apply the same standards to female artists as I do male artists - they must make stuff that I see the quality in for me to buy it.  I don't see how you can get any less sexist than that.  You're the one hung up on gender - not me.


i'm not racist, i love curry


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> i'm not racist, i love curry



Is curry a work of art now? 

(Silly comment, not arguing with you any more in this thread.)


----------



## seventh bullet (May 18, 2015)

Insecure people wanting to appear 'intellectual' by _telling_ you or _showing_ you that they read books, lol.


----------



## killer b (May 18, 2015)

Amateurs. I leave copies of the LRB lying casually round the house instead.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> no, it shows that i like to have something in common with the people i get close to, that's all.



The books someone reads is not an important part of whether or not you are able to love them (I'm speaking more broadly here, and not about sex). Does everyone in your life have to conform to this ideal? It just strikes me as really weird. 

I've got friends that have entirely different tastes and world views than me, but I love them to bits because they are loyal and supportive. Half my family don't read much or listen to music, but I don't reject them for it. I just don't understand your position.


----------



## JimW (May 18, 2015)

killer b said:


> Amateurs. I leave copies of the LRB lying casually round the house instead.


Does it work if you have their blog open on the laptop?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> The books someone reads is not an important part of whether or not you are able to love them (I'm speaking more broadly here, and not about sex). Does everyone in your life have to conform to this ideal? It just strikes me as really weird.
> 
> I've got friends that have entirely different tastes and world views than me, but I love them to bits because they are loyal and supportive. Half my family don't read much or listen to music, but I don't reject them for it. I just don't understand your position.



Must admit, I do like a good nose at someone's book/music/film collection if I go back to theirs (for this reason, I hate the move towards digital storage), but I don't think it would get in the way of a friendship.. or a shag.


----------



## killer b (May 18, 2015)

Paper copies are best, but the blog will do if you get lucky unexpectedly and don't get time to lay them out.


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

Waters is great and playing a self-publicists role in that quote. Get him on proper baltimore working class self-organisation and he's brilliant. I'm not joking.


----------



## xenon (May 18, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> God, I read the comments. _Never read the comments._


Or the articals...


----------



## xenon (May 18, 2015)

Anyway what if they, potential shag has a kindle or simalar? Demand to see their library? Sexy


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> The books someone reads is not an important part of whether or not you are able to love them (I'm speaking more broadly here, and not about sex). Does everyone in your life have to conform to this ideal? It just strikes me as really weird.
> 
> I've got friends that have entirely different tastes and world views than me, but I love them to bits because they are loyal and supportive. Half my family don't read much or listen to music, but I don't reject them for it. I just don't understand your position.


i like talking about them, and i would want to talk about them with a partner. that's all. i also like films, would find it disconcerting to go out with someone who had no interest in them. shared interests are important. it's why online dating profiles often have sections about films, books, music etc.

i was talking about potential partners, not friends or family btw


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

xenon said:


> Anyway what if they, potential shag has a kindle or simalar? Demand to see their library? Sexy


why do you think OKCupid and all the others want to know what books and films you like? The judgement (which I don't have a problem with - is someone who likes Pynchon more attractive to me? Hell yes.) is simply moved to the digital realm just like everything else.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> i like talking about them, and i would want to talk about them with a partner. that's all. i also like films, would find it disconcerting to go out with someone who had no interest in them. shared interests are important. it's why online dating profiles often have sections about films, books, music etc.
> 
> i was talking about potential partners, not friends or family btw


hah beat me too it. yep.


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> why do you think OKCupid and all the others want to know what books and films you like? The judgement (which I don't have a problem with - is someone who likes Pynchon more attractive to me? Hell yes.) is simply moved to the digital realm just like everything else.


To sell your interests to advertisers.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> To sell your interests to advertisers.


of course, but they couldn't do it if we didn't want to know and want other people to know. 

- did your missus fall for the massive room full of pamphlets?


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> of course, but they couldn't do it if we didn't want to know and want other people to know.
> 
> - did your missus fall for the massive room full of pamphlets?


I think we all did. And yes. My bestest scam.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> why do you think OKCupid and all the others want to know what books and films you like?



It's a wonder people who judge others solely on their taste in films/music/books can't meet someone irl. 

(And before you get on my case, I 'do' those sites. )


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

ironically my partner who is by far my longest lived relationship only had nine books on her shelf when I went back to hers of which 7 were Harry Potter, and one was a big glossy book of photos of puppies and kittens, and the nineth was that Peter Kilfoyle book about how Militant fucked up Liverpool.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It's a wonder people who judge others *solely* on their taste in films/music/books can't meet someone irl.


And who does that? You have a reading comprehension problem.


----------



## xenon (May 18, 2015)

Commidification of relationships. 





Spanky Longhorn said:


> why do you think OKCupid and all the others want to know what books and films you like? The judgement (which I don't have a problem with - is someone who likes Pynchon more attractive to me? Hell yes.) is simply moved to the digital realm just like everything else.


Something to talk about. No bookshelf, no shag. Snobby judgemental nonsense.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It's a wonder people who judge others solely on their taste in films/music/books can't meet someone irl.
> 
> (And before you get on my case, I 'do' those sites. )


I have done but met her indoors at a festival...

also who said solely you div? someone's tastes are part of a panoply of things that serve to make them more or less attractive - if I went back to someone's house and their bookshelves at a complete run of Usdaw's Arena magazine and a couple of slim volumes of Cambodian mass grave photos they would have to pretty special in other areas for me to want to hang about too long...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

xenon said:


> Commidification of relationships.
> Something to talk about. No bookshelf, no shag. Snobby judgemental nonsense.


why is it snobby? don't working clarse people read books other than Rags to Ritchie?


----------



## xenon (May 18, 2015)

Interlectual snobbery.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2015)

xenon said:


> Commidification of relationships.
> Something to talk about. No bookshelf, no shag. Snobby judgemental nonsense.


you said that. no one else. so how is it snobby judgemental nonsense?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

xenon said:


> Interlectual snobbery.


what you're saying makes no sense - are you claiming that people's tastes play no role in making them attractive or not?


----------



## xenon (May 18, 2015)

Im just arguing for the sake of it TBF. I


----------



## seventh bullet (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I have done but met her indoors at a festival...
> 
> also who said solely you div? someone's tastes are part of a panoply of things that serve to make them more or less attractive - if I went back to someone's house and their bookshelves at a complete run of Usdaw's Arena magazine and a couple of slim volumes of Cambodian mass grave photos they would have to pretty special in other areas for me to want to hang about too long...



Well done.   I actually own Chinese propaganda, but it's not on display.


----------



## xenon (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> what you're saying makes no sense - are you claiming that people's tastes play no role in making them attractive or not?


Just hate apherisms. Crappy guardianista coppy and paste sneary ones esp.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

xenon said:


> Just hate apherisms. Crappy guardianista coppy and paste sneary ones esp.



If I got back to someone's house and discovered they were a Guardian columnist I might think again


----------



## AC14 (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I have done but met her indoors at a festival...
> 
> also who said solely you div? someone's tastes are part of a panoply of things that serve to make them more or less attractive - if I went back to someone's house and their bookshelves at a complete run of Usdaw's Arena magazine and a couple of slim volumes of Cambodian mass grave photos they would have to pretty special in other areas for me to want to hang about too long...


What's Usdaw's Arena?


----------



## JimW (May 18, 2015)

AC14 said:


> What's Usdaw's Arena?


http://www.usdaw.org.uk/Members/Magazines

ETA and not a re-branded lower league football ground as you might think


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

AC14 said:


> What's Usdaw's Arena?


it's where shop workers get to battle each other for title of Employee of the Month on absorbent sand


----------



## billy_bob (May 19, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> ironically my partner who is by far my longest lived relationship only had nine books on her shelf when I went back to hers of which 7 were Harry Potter, and one was a big glossy book of photos of puppies and kittens, and the nineth was that Peter Kilfoyle book about how Militant fucked up Liverpool.



Sounds to me like she's probably a psychopath.


----------



## seventh bullet (May 19, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> it's where shop workers get to battle each other for title of Employee of the Month on absorbent sand



I won it once.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 19, 2015)

seventh bullet said:


> I won it once.



You wuz a contender, once.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 21, 2015)

"We notice you have ad blocker on, perhaps you'd like to support the guardian another way"

No, fuck off with your pop ups


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2015)

lol the guardian begging bowl


----------



## Belushi (May 21, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> lol the guardian begging bowl



Only £99 pounds for our one day course on begging and panhandling with Polly Toynbee


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Only £99 pounds for our one day course on begging and panhandling with Polly Toynbee


yeh the guardian does its begging via visa and mastercard


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> "We notice you have ad blocker on, perhaps you'd like to support the guardian another way"
> 
> No, fuck off with your pop ups


the correct answer is: yes, on a scaffold with a noose round alan rusbridger's neck


----------



## Santino (May 26, 2015)

What an absolute shitcunt:




			
				Michael White said:
			
		

> The fact is politicians sometimes tell lies, some self-serving ones, some necessary, a few even noble. Voters, who cannot bear too much truth, require it of them and only a child or a hypocrite should be unable to see this. Why, even voters tell lies. Look how so many must have lied to those trusting pollsters before the election! Should we trust the electorate now? Of course, but with a pinch of salt.


 
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...carmichael-nicola-sturgeon-memo-leak-scotland

(Cross-posted from the Lib Dems thread.)


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2015)

Michael Shite strikes again. He called us all a bunch of cunts post-election result too iirc. Notice the divorce between 'we'- the guardian liberal elite- and 'the elctorate'. The unwashed proles who dissapointed him so. Him and that other cunt nick robinson at the beeb, neckshots.


----------



## NoXion (May 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> What an absolute shitcunt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Link gives me a 404?


----------



## Belushi (May 26, 2015)

I can't fucking abide Michael White, look at his little fascist moustache


----------



## Santino (May 26, 2015)

NoXion said:


> Link gives me a 404?


 Fixed (I think)


----------



## NoXion (May 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> Fixed (I think)



Still broken. Is it this page?

EDIT: I was clicking the link in the quote. Works now!


----------



## butchersapron (May 26, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I can't fucking abide Michael White, look at his little fascist moustache


Look at the eyes. Such hatred. _Too long a sacrifice_ i think.


----------



## butchersapron (May 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> Fixed (I think)


Works fine for me now.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> What an absolute shitcunt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I came here for a rant about that.  Fucking hell, he's a strange one.

"Contrite Carmichael, warts and all? Sounds OK to me at this distance."​
Contrite?  Here's his apology.  This is literally what he said when asked: "I have already said I very much regret the position I am in." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32874009

In what world is that contrition?  That's "I'm sorry I was caught".

"I was around in the 70s when the SNP was last present in force. As the late Alan Watkins remarked at the time, they “celebrated Hogmanay in the SNP whips office at least once a week”. It was lively."​
What? What the _actual_ feck?  "I remember 40 years ago, some of the uncouth yobs were here before..." Quite apart from the fact MPs were all famously boozers in the 70s, as were Fleet Street, what is the relevance?  A story from the Daily Mail, that's what.  With a picture of an SNP MP *eating a plate of chips*, like the ned she is.  Not fit to be MPs, I tell you! (Oh, and it can't be that unusual, since she bought the fucking chips *in there*).  That's just rancid, classist snobbery, White.

And as for the _Hogmanay_ dig.  That's snidey, bigoted stereotyping.  You racist twat.

"outraged Scots promised to report Carmichael to the parliamentary standards watchdog for bringing parliament into disrepute (ho, ho)"​
The "ho ho", I presume, is along the lines of Sir Malcolm Bruce's "defence" of Carmichael this morning?  "All MPs lie. The place would be empty".  Ah, well, that's OK, then. 

"He authorised a leak which, so it is said, he may not have believed was a true account of Sturgeon’s diplomatic meeting. He showed bad judgment in later lying to cover it up."​
"Big", Mr White tells us, "deal".  But that's not all he did, he also let an inquiry into the source of the leak go ahead knowing he was the source of the leak.  What was he hoping for?  A SPAD to take the rap?  It all to go away?  The election to be over by the time the findings came back?

I'm sorry, but even if that's par for the course, why does that make it OK?  It just doesn't.

"Now I see this campaign in a more sinister light."​
What, more sinister than your racist digs about Hogmanay?

"So it seems a little authoritarian, to put it mildly, to seek a byelection in order to make a block of 56 MPs into 57, 96% of Scotland’s MPs on the basis of 50% of Scotland’s vote."​
So, he gets away with it because "the SNP might win another seat"?  That's bizarre.  Remember when Labour were getting a disproportionate number of Scottish seats, you know, right up to a couple of weeks ago?  Do you remember that? Was it "sinister" when _they_ hoped to win by-elections?  Where are your articles about how sinister _that_ was?  Anywhere?

This attitude of White's, ladies and gentlemen, this sort of elitist sense of entitlement on display in that snidey, insinuating, racist and classist article, if you were in any doubt, is why the SNP swept the boards a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## steeplejack (May 26, 2015)

...and long may it continue.

The very elite that you mnetion just don't see that doublethink claptrap like White's article actually _fuels_ support for the SNP and other independence minded parties, rather than undermining it.

I hope the London based MSM carries on as they are. The more they speak to the electorate, like a subaltern speaking to a squaddie on defaulters about the standard of his latrine cleaning, the better.


----------



## rekil (May 26, 2015)

If you're scottish and disagree with him on the twitter, he'll burn you so hard by claiming that you've had too much Irn Bru. He's done it 3 or 4 times now.


----------



## Belushi (May 26, 2015)

copliker said:


> If you're scottish and disagree with him on the twitter, he'll burn you so hard by claiming that you've had too much Irn Bru. He's done it 3 or 4 times now.



Seriously? what a twat


----------



## Sue (May 26, 2015)

copliker said:


> If you're scottish and disagree with him on the twitter, he'll burn you so hard by claiming that you've had too much Irn Bru. He's done it 3 or 4 times now.


Not on twitter but that sounds like fun...


----------



## rekil (May 26, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Seriously? what a twat


Lampshade on the head party man.


----------



## butchersapron (May 26, 2015)

The SNP aren't buying him Irn Bru in the bars he is paid to spend all day in. That's the problem.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 26, 2015)

copliker said:


> Lampshade on the head party man.
> 
> View attachment 71875


Ooh, burn. 

Ouch, Michael. Your wit leaves scorch marks requiring Savlon.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2015)

its brilliant really- leave aside the snp hatred and so on for a minute and boil it down to his essential point:

It's ok to distort an election by leaking a lie you've cooked up because the electorate are a bunch of cunts anyway and besides, anyone in power is bang at this dirty game anyway. Oh and I've redefined the concept of contrition as well.


*blinks* behold the true face of the guardian juorno etc


----------



## J Ed (May 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> anyone in power is bang at this dirty game anyway



I hear this response more and more when bringing up anything to do with politics, the banks, work conditions etc - as if highlighting something and saying that it isn't right and needs to be changed is somehow a naive thing to say or think and that proper grown ups merely accept that it is the natural order of things and get on with their lives. I think it's a very dark way to see the world.


----------



## Sue (May 26, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> its brilliant really- leave aside the snp hatred and so on for a minute and boil it down to his essential point:
> 
> It's ok to distort an election by leaking a lie you've cooked up because the electorate are a bunch of cunts anyway and besides, anyone in power is bang at this dirty game anyway. Oh and I've redefined the concept of contrition as well.
> 
> ...



And obviously the SNP have *enough* MPs already so it would be completely out of order for them to try and get any more. Know your place.


----------



## weepiper (May 26, 2015)

Sue said:


> And obviously the SNP have *enough* MPs already so it would be completely out of order for them to try and get any more. Know your place.


He neglects to mention that in the event of a by-election any of the other parties including the Lib-Dems could put up someone the electorate would vote in to replace Carmichael instead of the SNP. If the other parties weren't all such a bunch of mendacious shitweasels.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I hear this response more and more when bringing up anything to do with politics, the banks, work conditions etc - as if highlighting something and saying that it isn't right and needs to be changed is somehow a naive thing to say or think and that proper grown ups merely accept that it is the natural order of things and get on with their lives. I think it's a very dark way to see the world.



you'll see this no more clearly than when you articulate a non mainstream opinion on politics- you're wolfie smith, you're Russel Brand. You don't understand how the real world works. Its enough to drive someone towards the tactics I mentioned to you in PM. This idea of the grand game, all a magic and light show for a class that never feels the effects of what they do.


----------



## weepiper (May 26, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> "outraged Scots promised to report Carmichael to the parliamentary standards watchdog for bringing parliament into disrepute (ho, ho)"​
> The "ho ho", I presume, is along the lines of Sir Malcolm Bruce's "defence" of Carmichael this morning?  "All MPs lie. The place would be empty".  Ah, well, that's OK, then.
> ​


​
Speaking of which. Here's Malcolm Bruce a few scant weeks ago, on the topic of an SNP candidate who tweeted some questionable links under a nom de plume:


----------



## danny la rouge (May 27, 2015)

I'm glad Hay didn't win. He's a twat. But it's interesting to compare crimes: he tweeted links to the puerile and crap satirical site "BBC Scotlandshire" while neither an MP nor candidate.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 27, 2015)

Talking of twats, here's a good one. "We need bad MPs to represent bad voters".


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2015)

Wow. Well, he is saying what they are thinking I suppose...


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 27, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/27/tea-national-disgrace-beverage-british



> Tea is shit. We don’t examine this enough in England. We just putter along, thinking tea is good; but it’s not good. It’s a lukewarm mug of leaf water, presented as a cure-all for life’s ills. “Nice cup of tea,” people say, when you’ve watched a vivid car accident or been given a terminal diagnosis, or gone for a walk and it’s started raining.



Firstly a cup of tea is an excellent (and officially recommended) remedy for shock, hypothermia, emotional trauma and a range of other bad things. Secondly, simply reading half a dozen Charlie Brooker columns then picking a subject at random to witlessly moan about does not a writer make.


----------



## Belushi (May 27, 2015)

I don't even like tea but that article is terrible.  They really do publish any old shit.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 27, 2015)

I write better rants than that in my spare time. Often while stoned. If only my dad worked at the Guardian I'd be loaded by now.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 28, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/27/tea-national-disgrace-beverage-british
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly a cup of tea is an excellent (and officially recommended) remedy for shock, hypothermia, emotional trauma and a range of other bad things. Secondly, simply reading half a dozen Charlie Brooker columns then picking a subject at random to witlessly moan about does not a writer make.



This fucking cunt of a commentator on that article, jesus fucking christ



> If you have had the pleasure of drinking tea in Japan or China or made by a person raised in japanese or chinese tea making ceremony , the point made by the writer here is right: Tea made and served the British/national way is perhaps not a disgrace but just presently unworthy. It has certainly deteriorated in the last decades


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 28, 2015)

How can you be unworthy of putting some leaves in a cup of hot water?


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2015)

_Did you know they give their children wine with the evening meal - that's why they're not a disgrace to humanity like the british people we see everywhere. And they all eat at a big table. Sometimes outside. In the big old farmhouses they all live in. _


----------



## ska invita (May 28, 2015)

"
*Joel Golby*
Joel Golby writes about general stuff for VICE "
*Previous*

FHM & heat magazines


----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2015)

An article by David Mellor

Fifa’s so corrupt only governments can clean it out

To which I replied in the comments: 'David Mellor writing about right and proper behaviour? Doctor my sides.'

It was deleted by a moderator straightaway.


----------



## J Ed (May 29, 2015)

teqniq said:


> An article by David Mellor
> 
> Fifa’s so corrupt only governments can clean it out
> 
> ...


 
In some ways you have to sympathise (not really) with FIFA, if they were a bank they wouldn't be getting half the flack that they are.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 30, 2015)

J Ed said:


> In some ways you have to sympathise (not really) with FIFA, if they were a bank they wouldn't be getting half the flack that they are.



Or a government for that matter.


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 31, 2015)

Article by Kevin McKenna:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/31/bollinger-bolshevik-with-rightwing-friends

Just utter drivel, so it fits the OP


----------



## youngian (Jun 1, 2015)

Zoe Williams asks it she is part of an oppressed social class 


> *The metropolitan elite: Britain’s new pariah class*
> The ‘metropolitan elite’ has become the catch-all term of abuse against Westminster politicians and diverse voices. But is it a real explosion of rage against a broken system, or an easy way to spread intolerance?


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/20/metropolitan-elite-britains-new-pariah-class


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 1, 2015)

Reasonable article and the subhead (which of course Williams wouldn't have written) doesn't capture its tone. What did you dislike about it?


----------



## youngian (Jun 1, 2015)

Its a bogus victimhood winge from a privileged person who is not widely disliked or even registers among many people beyond right wing newspaper columnists. See also business people who are also upset that Ed MIliband was not paying them enough reverence.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 1, 2015)

youngian said:


> Its a bogus victimhood winge from a privileged person .



It wasn't, really.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2015)

Yeah, the Godolphin and Latymer School then oxbridge educated guardian journo probably didn't have herself in mind when she wrote about anger at 'metropolitan elitism'.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2015)

This article about standing at work is amazing



> The US secretary of state Donald Rumsfeld, famously, considered this a laughably feeble form of non-torture, scribbling on a Pentagon memo that he stood for up to 10 hours every day – so why should these wimpish prisoners be spared? But after attempting to enact new advice that office workers should stand for four hours every working day, I begin to see what the interrogators were on about.
> 
> ...
> 
> Standing to work is not a new thing


----------



## Belushi (Jun 5, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/05/professional-northerner-labour-andy-burnham


----------



## oryx (Jun 6, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...es-kennedy-alcohol-problem-britain-alcoholism

Yawn, yawn. 'Brits' and binge drinking again. It's rather disrespectful and I feel that Charles Kennedy's alcoholism, while his cause of death, has been over-played in the light of his being a decent and respected parliamentarian.

Can't believe she didn't get in a bit about continental Europeans and pavement cafes. Just to put the icing on the stereotype cake.


----------



## weepiper (Jun 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> This article about standing at work is amazing


What _is_ that bollocks? Everyone bar the managers at my work stands for 8-9 hours a day, everyday, except for their lunch break


----------



## ska invita (Jun 6, 2015)

weepiper said:


> What _is_ that bollocks? Everyone bar the managers at my work stands for 8-9 hours a day, everyday, except for their lunch break


i havent read the article but fuck standing at work - i think its an outrage and feel very sorry whenever i see anyone standing at workplaces - especially bullshit ones where a seat would be fine but some management cunt has made it happen to feel more dynamic or some shit
personally i have flat feet and cant go more than 10mins standing before it hurts


----------



## weepiper (Jun 6, 2015)

ska invita said:


> i havent read the article but fuck standing at work - i think its an outrage and feel very sorry whenever i see anyone standing at workplaces - especially bullshit ones where a seat would be fine but some management cunt has made it happen to feel more dynamic or some shit
> personally i have flat feet and cant go more than 10mins standing before it hurts


I say stand but it's pretty mobile, there's a lot of walking about/fetching/up and down stairs. It's not standing still at a till.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 6, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I say stand but it's pretty mobile, there's a lot of walking about/fetching/up and down stairs. It's not standing still at a till.


yeah some supermarkets have introduced it for people scanning at tills - fucking sadists


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 6, 2015)

ska invita said:


> yeah some supermarkets have introduced it for people scanning at tills - fucking sadists


Why? It's better than sitting.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 6, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Why? It's better than sitting.



A choice between the two options would be better though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 6, 2015)

Libertad said:


> A choice between the two options would be better though.


Aye, you need a stool at tills, like in high street non-supermarket shops


----------



## ska invita (Jun 6, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Why? It's better than sitting.


for may people standing all day is very painful


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Why? It's better than sitting.


No, it isn't.  Even stacking shelves means you're fairly mobile with a range of movements.  Standing with limited movements for hours at a time is just as bad as sitting for a long time.

Let the worker decide what they want to do.

A couple of people at work have standing desk systems but in an open plan office it just looks like they're watching/monitoring others.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2015)

its murder on the soles of some peoples feet to stand 8 hours. Used to get foot pain something rotten when running CNC machines for 8-10 hours a day. You'd get home and they'd still be throbbing two hours later. Kept expecting them to toughen up but they never did, not six nor 12 months later. Insoles and better (out of my own pocket) quality safety boots helped but still, jesus man. You needed to be on your feet to tend six machines at once though so thats not a swizz. Making checkout staff stand is just a wankers trick


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 6, 2015)

1996 I was working 12 hour shifts, six days a week with hour of breaks, on my feet all day. It was fucking hell, and I was young


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 6, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> No, it isn't.  Even stacking shelves means you're fairly mobile with a range of movements.  Standing with limited movements for hours at a time is just as bad as sitting for a long time.
> 
> Let the worker decide what they want to do.
> 
> A couple of people at work have standing desk systems but in an open plan office it just looks like they're watching/monitoring others.


As mentioned earlier, the option to sit down is necessary, but IME in retail you are moving about so much that sitting down is an inconvenience


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> its murder on the soles of some peoples feet to stand 8 hours. Used to get foot pain something rotten when running CNC machines for 8-10 hours a day. You'd get home and they'd still be throbbing two hours later. Kept expecting them to toughen up but they never did, not six nor 12 months later. Insoles and better (out of my own pocket) quality safety boots helped but still, jesus man. You needed to be on your feet to tend six machines at once though so thats not a swizz. Making checkout staff stand is just a wankers trick



Did you have anti-fatigue matting?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> Did you have anti-fatigue matting?


Nah, just plain floor. I'd have bought my own had I known such a thing existed.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> As mentioned earlier, the option to sit down is necessary, but IME in retail you are moving about so much that sitting down is an inconvenience


Checkout staff are generally not that mobile. Other retail staff depending on what they're doing may be.

There is a difference between someone standing still or moving in a limited way and someone standing but moving in a range of ways. Checkouts in particular seem to be largely set at just the wrong height for staff to stand and work.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 6, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> No, it isn't.  Even stacking shelves means you're fairly mobile with a range of movements.  Standing with limited movements for hours at a time is just as bad as sitting for a long time.



It keeps me fairly fit (and slim of course, got to think about that), but it is tiring.  I'd say it's sleep disruption that fucks me up.  So long as you bend correctly when lifting heavy boxes etc, make sure you have a good meal and rest during the break, your whole body gets a good workout.  I can see it not being good for older people, though.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jun 7, 2015)

Thing is though, she admits that she didn't read the report about standing in the workplace (which recommends ergonomic furniture, alternating sitting and standing, building up standing time slowly, and finding ways to increase movement in the workday) her "experiment" was most of the way through, and she completely fails to remember that workplaces other than offices exist.  So instead of any actual critical analysis of the report, or insight into health issues in the workplace (ie how our work messes with our health), we learn that typing while leaning against a filing cabinet is a bit uncomfortable...


----------



## rekil (Jun 12, 2015)

No better outlet for a rich white middle aged pop group man to do peak wake up sheeple.



> That’s right - you all love your shit. From your derivative music to your shiny hollow movies, from those videos displaying your idiocy on the internet to your addiction to fake reality on TV, that saying is a fucking fact.





> That’s all it is: product. No art, no heart, no goals and no soul – just straight unadulterated garbage for your pleasure. If I were you, I’d be insulted. I’m not insulted because I don’t buy their shit. I boycott it.





> Your brain and intellect, these things are a lot like your body. If you feed it well, it blossoms and grows and gets stronger. If you feed it nothing but empty fast food calories, you’re gonna find yourself breathing through your mouth and dragging your knuckles on concrete as you make your way to the unemployment office.





> Listen to some music that doesn’t just repeat the word “Baby” 23,457 times.


That sounds like a challenge tbh. But hang on...Through the adolescent hissyfit I see an opportunity.


> Yes, I worry about what the aliens will think of us.


Perhaps PD's fundraising kommando could cadge a few bob out of him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2015)

that nu-metal cunt wants to think about all the time he spent wanking out shit derivative kiddie metal while wearing a twats mask. Just for perspective like.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 12, 2015)

Tbh I would be very disappointed if somebody from Slipknot came out saying "well actually all cultural expression is valid depending on your perspective and who am I to judge?"


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2015)

Gotta respect that 30 year teenage thing - _ugh girls music

hello am you dying now?_


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 12, 2015)

I hated Slipknott before you lot had heard of them


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2015)

allegedly the masked member of Suicide Squad is slipknot person. Could just be internet bollocks though.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> allegedly the masked member of Suicide Squad is slipknot person. Could just be internet bollocks though.


This is why you can't get a job


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 12, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Gotta respect that 30 year teenage thing - _ugh girls music
> 
> hello am you dying now?_


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


>



You're thinking what i'm thinking.


----------



## rekil (Jun 12, 2015)

A cover of a disneyfied cover.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 17, 2015)

Greece blames everybody but itself for its economic woes

Just gross.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 17, 2015)

This garbage in video form. Again because the same story has been done in text form once before.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 17, 2015)

If ever there's an unappreciated group in society, it has to be male models over the age of 35.

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/...-grey-what-life-is-like-for-older-male-models


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 18, 2015)

sihhi said:


> This garbage in video form. Again because the same story has been done in text form once before.



Oh god.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 24, 2015)

Headline:
Nick Clegg offered to resign as Lib Dem leader a year before 2015 election

Content:
Nick Clegg did not offer to resign as Lib Dem leader a year before 2015 election


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2015)

sihhi said:


> This garbage in video form.



There's a bit in that where he says 'I know what you're thinking...' but what I was actually thinking at that point was, how come both your boyfriends look exactly the same as you? How fucking narcissistic are you that you're fucking _two _clones of yourself?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 26, 2015)

Fucking hell.

Toxic comments, its the poors fault, does no harm to live cheek by jowl, so what if a kid grows up crammed with 26 other people.

Fuckers


----------



## captainmission (Jun 27, 2015)

How easily 'radical' identity politics meshes with neoliberalism - Our polyamourous relationship (which you square can't deal with and is none of your business, but let me tell you about it in tedious detail) deserves tax breaks so we won't be a burden on the state.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2015)

Just look at this cunt - can't they make him write his rubbish without a pic?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 30, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Just look at this cunt - can't they make him write his rubbish without a pic?
> 
> View attachment 73397


Who does he look like? He reminds me of someone. Can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe no one famous, just someone i knew/know.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Who does he look like? He reminds me of someone. Can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe no one famous, just someone i knew/know.



Captain Peacock


----------



## Belushi (Jun 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Who does he look like? He reminds me of someone. Can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe no one famous, just someone i knew/know.



An evil Michael Fish.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 30, 2015)

LOL both of them!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 1, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Just look at this cunt - can't they make him write his rubbish without a pic?
> 
> View attachment 73397



He is, and always has been, a fish-eyed, purse-mouthed uber-liberal shitwad.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2015)

like a colonel in one of them war films where everyone is under hell, except the evil upper class officers of the british army.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 3, 2015)

Not sure where to put this,comment from:


http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/03/anarchism-could-help-save-the-world


semyorka 
33m ago
12
Having once spent a lot of time reading the anarchist forum Urban 75, I have come to the conclusion they are all a bunch of self serving narcissists more impressed with burnishing their own ego than engaging with the nitty gritty of problems of ordinary people. 

I have never met an anarchist I would trust to run a burger van let alone design an entire economy.

Who be this cunt?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2015)




----------



## killer b (Jul 10, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Not sure where to put this,comment from:
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/03/anarchism-could-help-save-the-world
> ...


he's got us nailed tbf.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Not sure where to put this,comment from:
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/03/anarchism-could-help-save-the-world
> ...


That would the raving loon ferrelhadley. Do check his posts.


----------



## treelover (Jul 11, 2015)

He hasn't posted since January, why is he a raving loon?, most people outside Urban would say the same about all of us on here.

btw, mods, was there a spike on here when he did the Guardian article?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2015)

Oh god. He's a raving loon because of the stuff he has posted - most of which consisted of calling w/c people too thick to understand anything and that all people who try to help are swp activists.

Why don't you just do a few minutes research for once? What is wrong with you?


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2015)

He didn't 'do' a guardian article, he commented under one you fucking bell.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2015)

killer b said:


> He didn't 'do' a guardian article, he commented under one you fucking bell.


To know that it would involve dark reading arts.


----------



## killer b (Jul 11, 2015)

73% of TL's waking life is spent reading the comments on CiF articles, you'd have thought they'd know them all off by heart by now.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2015)

killer b said:


> 73% of TL's waking life is spent reading the comments on CiF articles, you'd have thought they'd know them all off by heart by now.


The rest are posting about them on here.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 11, 2015)

treelover is here' to ask questions not answer them


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 11, 2015)

Leaving ellipses hanging in the air like pellets out the arse of a rabbit climbing a tree


----------



## xenon (Jul 11, 2015)

A pedantic point but I wish you would quote the article copy and paste I'd rather not have to click on the links to find out what i'm to be appalled by. And click bait advertising et cetera. Flush away.


----------



## xenon (Jul 11, 2015)

A general point. That wasn't a pop at treelover.


----------



## Belushi (Jul 12, 2015)

FFS another weepy article about the electorate being so rotten to the Lib-Dems

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/12/strange-death-of-liberal-democrats-leadership-vote


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 13, 2015)

There's loads of 'sponsored content' nowadays, which grates and goes against the grain as far as I'm concerned. There's editorial, and adverts. Then there was 'advertorial', but that was clearly supposed to be advertising, albeit more long-form. Now with 'sponsored content' it's not so clear who's pulling the strings, who's making editorial decisions, who's deciding what stories to run and what angles to take. And what if an industry competitor does something/becomes the focus of a story, will that be censored (if it compares the competitor favourably?) or if a story represents a 'sponsor' (or advertiser) in a bad way, will that end up being censored, like the Telegraph apparently censored the HSBC stories?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 13, 2015)

Sponsored/brought to you/supported by:



> Guardian News & Media produces a variety of content with funding from outside parties.
> 
> These sources of revenue allow us to explore, in more depth than editorial budgets would otherwise allow, topics that we hope are of interest to Guardian and Observer readers. The presentation of the content makes clear how the content has been commissioned and produced, and who has funded it.
> 
> ...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 13, 2015)

On native advertising:

http://www.theguardian.com/media-ne...guardian-outbrain-labelling-sponsored-content

http://www.theguardian.com/media-ne...r-zone/native-advertising-quality-scalability


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 13, 2015)

*One good thing about mayors is they are obliged to care about diversity*

*What??   *


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 13, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Not sure where to put this,comment from:
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/03/anarchism-could-help-save-the-world
> ...



We have a nark in our midst


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 13, 2015)

Headline:

 

Actual story:

David Cameron’s plans to relax the fox-hunting ban are likely to fail after the SNP decided to take the provocative step of voting against a change in the law that only relates to England and Wales.


----------



## rekil (Jul 14, 2015)

They fixed it up now. Just someone's little joke.

'Tory plan to relax foxhunting ban set to fail after threat from SNP'


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2015)

One the same page ffs:



> When a rapper with as high a profile as 50 Cent declares bankruptcy, you could power a small nation with the schadenfreude. Twitter wags – inevitably – weighed in, with various puns on Curtis Jackson’s chosen alias, while others laboured to make jokes about the EU bailing him out.
> ...
> The real stars of hip-hop are seen as gaudy figures of fun to these critics, rather than what they are: the true leaders of a still restlessly inventive music form.



Scroll down:


----------



## rekil (Jul 19, 2015)

Calling all progressives: help us reform the welfare state - George Osborne

Sub heading - "Britain can’t afford its out-of-control benefits system. Moderate Labour MPs should support our proposals"


----------



## brogdale (Jul 19, 2015)

copliker said:


> Calling all progressives: help us reform the welfare state - George Osborne
> 
> Sub heading - "Britain can’t afford its out-of-control benefits system. Moderate Labour MPs should support our proposals"


Bit too commie for our Liz.


----------



## weepiper (Jul 19, 2015)

copliker said:


> Calling all progressives: help us reform the welfare state - George Osborne
> 
> Sub heading - "Britain can’t afford its out-of-control benefits system. Moderate Labour MPs should support our proposals"



I rather think this sums it up


----------



## rekil (Jul 19, 2015)

I hope George got paid his 50 quid or whatever the rate is for CiF pieces.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 20, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I rather think this sums it up



Observer cunts tbf 


anyhow - arghh! Not nice on a monday morning.... 
All topped off with the Tory blue redesign.....


----------



## treelover (Jul 20, 2015)

WTF is happening with the Guardian are they angling for the Telegraph readership?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2015)

treelover said:


> WTF is happening with the Guardian are they angling for the Telegraph readership?


no, the telegraph readership already have the telegraph.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 20, 2015)

copliker said:


> Calling all progressives: help us reform the welfare state - George Osborne
> 
> Sub heading - "Britain can’t afford its out-of-control benefits system. Moderate Labour MPs should support our proposals"



Liberal wankers. Even a cursory analysis of the economics of welfare show that it's affordable, and any social analysis shows that it's cheap and necessary.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Liberal wankers. Even a cursory analysis of the economics of welfare show that it's affordable, and any social analysis shows that it's cheap and necessary.


what's unaffordable are things like trident.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 20, 2015)

you know who else was fond of five-year plans, right?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 20, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> you know who else was fond of five-year plans, right?



I was actually thinking that when i read that headline    

I dunno how hes gonna defeat daesh with that anyway


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2015)

"*B*ritain has one of the most generous welfare states in Europe. Thousands of people from around the world are piling up in Calais, clamouring to join it." Simon Jenkins

Sun = migrants swamping the welfare state, Guardian = migrants piling & clamouring the welfare state 

support the tory cuts continues here http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/21/harriet-harman-sensible-welfare-bill-labour


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 21, 2015)

Stop defending the poor, sexist MPs!

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...our-rebellion-harriet-harman-man-welfare-vote


----------



## captainmission (Jul 21, 2015)

*Would the rebellion against Harriet Harman have happened to a man?*



> Have you ever seen a male leader so undermined?



Yes, as basic knowledge of parliment or 5 seconds of googling would reveal


----------



## J Ed (Jul 21, 2015)

captainmission said:


> *Would the rebellion against Harriet Harman have happened to a man?*
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, as basic knowledge of parliment or 5 seconds of googling would reveal



Jesus. Fucking Christ. Worst thing I have ever read in the Guardian.

People opposing savage attack that disproportionately affects single mothers and will leave single mums and their kids hungry are actually doing so because they are sexists who want to undermine women (by which they mean one particular woman). We are through the fucking looking glass.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 21, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Jesus. Fucking Christ. Worst thing I have ever read in the Guardian.


she is a student ...  http://www.theguardian.com/profile/lucy-webster ... with a connection


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2015)

> At the height of the tuition fee saga, only 21 Lib Dems broke ranks; yesterday 48 Labour MPs defied the whip.



Mkay, let me stop you there. You're comparing a time when nearly half of lib dem MPs rebelled against a time when fewer than a quarter of labour MP's rebelled and your conclusion is that the latter was a bigger rebellion?

That's before we even get into the idea that maybe MPs should vote according to the best interests of their constituents, or their own moral standards.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2015)

ska invita said:


> she is a student ...  http://www.theguardian.com/profile/lucy-webster ... with a connection



They've got to stop publishing these gap-year cretins ffs


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2015)

My favourite comment on that article:



> So although a woman is actually, factually, in charge, she's not really in charge because..err..she's a woman.
> 
> The sort of dross that undermines the very notion of feminism



Yup, nailed it.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 21, 2015)

Holy fucking shit


----------



## J Ed (Jul 22, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...illed-air-strike-islamic-state-syria#comments



> *Guardian Pick*
> Wow a lot of these comments almost resemble the stuff that comes out of the jihadis in Isis when they wish death on the 'infidels'....surprised Guardian have allowed this. Grown people are posting comments about how they're happy a kid has died. I would like to think we are better than this but we're stooping to the levels of those idiots who threaten, taunt and wish death on us...I'm truly surprised by some of the comments I've read. Please, spa…



You are _so _closed minded, open your mind to people who promote alternative lifestyles like enslaving prepubescent girls for rape and ethnic cleansing.

Personally I will save my thoughts for those brave youth in Turkey who were martyred this week because they wanted to help build a society for everyone, not ISIS manbabies who have got what was coming to them and what they claimed to want.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2015)

How is that the 'guardian pick'!?


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 22, 2015)

They probably have an algorithm


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 22, 2015)

Anti-Corbyn articles seem to have taken over from LibDem puffs pieces as the Guardians new favourite.


> There is room for a party of the emotional spasm in British politics but that is a party of protest, not a party of government. Labour is a party of government. That means it has to shape and articulate the beliefs and aspirations of a majority of its citizens, not just an apocalyptic tendency. That was the point Tony Blair was making this morning.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Anti-Corbyn articles seem to have taken over from LibDem puffs pieces as the Guardians new favourite.


184 "New LibDem" MPs to support.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 22, 2015)

From January: The big swing: voters who are changing lanes



> Alex Beaton is a 22-year-old philosophy and economics undergraduate with a bushy beard, a blue stud in the lobe of his left ear and a gentle sense of the absurd. You might think of his politics as post-ideological – or, if you were being slightly less intellectual, absolutely all over the place. At the 2010 general election, he voted for the Liberal Democrats. He has very little time for either Labour or Ukip. And though he’d vote Green in an ideal world, he’s actually about to give his support to the Conservatives.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 22, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> From January: The big swing: voters who are changing lanes


I believe the correct philosophical term for Alex is dick head.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2015)

He voted Lib Dem five years ago because they “seemed a good alternative: something new; something a bit different. Vince Cable was a big part of it. I liked him a lot. He was the only one who managed to call the crash, wasn’t he? And I was a bit bored with the main two parties.”


----------



## treelover (Jul 22, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> From January: The big swing: voters who are changing lanes




There are loads of these characters, when you (or more likely your offspring), meet them make sure they know what they done.


----------



## killer b (Jul 22, 2015)

treelover said:


> There are loads of these characters, when you (or more likely your offspring), meet them make sure they know what they done.


it wasn't the youth vote that did it - Labour was ahead in 18-24s: 43% Lab, 27% Tory


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 22, 2015)

treelover said:


> ...or more likely your offspring



Christ, how old do you think I am?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Christ, how old do you think I am?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2015)

This must be close to 3 cherries?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/22/george-osborne-ruined-yoga-retreat?CMP=twt_gu


> I just came back from my annual yoga retreat high up a forested Italian hill. All there is to hear in this delightful spot is the onomatopoeic call of the hoopoe and the oddly strangulated cry of whatever raptor it is that likes to swoop over the valley. The most fascinating things to watch in the languid afternoons were the swallowtail butterflies soaring through the garden


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 22, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sborne-ruined-yoga-retreat?CMP=share_btn_link

George. Osborne. Ruined. My. Yoga. Retreat.

Edit:goddammit brogdale


----------



## Belushi (Jul 22, 2015)

I cant tell what's satire and what's real Guardianista nowadays


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I cant tell what's satire and what's real Guardianista nowadays


"*I reckon I totally misaligned everyone else’s chakras*"


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 22, 2015)

Goddammit I came here to post that


----------



## J Ed (Jul 22, 2015)

jesus christ


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I cant tell what's satire and what's real Guardianista nowadays



It's the Arts Notebook, so I reckon they were going for top troll/clickbait with that


----------



## J Ed (Jul 22, 2015)

They could have given that space to someone actually suffering from the cuts to describe how it will affect them on a day to day basis. 

Fuck the Guardian


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2015/jul/20/alien-films-closet-clothes-shoes-horror-wardrobe


----------



## emanymton (Jul 22, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Christ, how old do you think I am?


Grandchildren then.


----------



## killer b (Jul 22, 2015)




----------



## J Ed (Jul 22, 2015)

These are nation changing times - help us slag off people who challenge our power and privilege

Give us dosh so we can line up with the Murdoch media to shore up support for Fortress Austerity Europe

We need money so we can continue to print the rainbow of voices necessary for us to manufacture consent for neoliberalism

Lend us a helping hand otherwise highly literate yogis will be forced to cut down on the number of retreats they can take in Italy, that will be so stressful for them


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 22, 2015)

George Osborne ruined my yoga retreat


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> George Osborne ruined my yoga retreat




Johnny-come-lately.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 22, 2015)

dicks


----------



## stethoscope (Jul 22, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> George Osborne ruined my yoga retreat



Jesus christ.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 22, 2015)

> George Osbourne ruined my yoga retreat



Two things:

1. If you're at a yoga retreat, turn off your fucking smartphone. The pissed monkey you left at your desk is doing just fine covering for you.
2. Kill yourself. See all them mountains? Pick one and jump the fuck off it. Do a fucking hoopoe impression on the way down.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 22, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> Jesus christ.



No he's got nothing to do with it, its from a bit further to the east


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2015)

brogdale said:


> This must be close to 3 cherries?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/22/george-osborne-ruined-yoga-retreat?CMP=twt_gu
> ​



Is that real. I refuse to believe it is.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2015)

*Should I include my Myers-Briggs results in my dating profile?*


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 23, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> *Should I include my Myers-Briggs results in my dating profile?*


Would be more interesting to stick in your Voight-Kampff results


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jul 23, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Should I include my Myers-Briggs results in my dating profile?


I wonder if Stella Grey did that for her column on online dating (which I've enjoyed reading).


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Would be more interesting to stick in your Voight-Kampff results


let me tell you about my mother

I don't recon the three wank leadership hopefuls for labour could pass a VK, given that its essentially an empathy test measured through pupil dilation.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2015)

I got 'mostly human'.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2015)

> Where exactly, in history, are these wise crowds? Do you mean the hordes who joined the first crusade and immediately started murdering Jews? The mobs who attacked Catholics, immigrants and foreigners in the 18th-century Gordon riots? Or the people who join in social media attacks on supposedly outrageous remarks by some poor sod or other?


----------



## mauvais (Jul 23, 2015)

For fuck's sake. What a joke. I've supported the Graun for a very long time, but its recent "analysis", if you can call fear of ever standing for anything meaningful an analysis, is an offensive crock of shit. The sub-tabloid crap like this piece of shit just sticks the boot in further. Fuck them.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 23, 2015)

Not one, not two but three finger wagging articles about why you naughty children voting for Corbyn should stop what you are doing at once!

Martin Kettle's in particular is a masterpiece of stupidity, pomposity and liberal cuntiness


> Like many of those who support him, Corbyn calls himself a socialist. His socialism, though, is more a matter of faith than a viable programme. He is not, as his three opponents are, a reformist who aspires to govern and get re-elected. He is not interested in making detailed policy choices or pragmatic compromises. Corbyn’s position is essentially made up of attitudes and slogans, not least about the place of the trade unions, many of them proudly unchanged for almost 50 years.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 23, 2015)

It's amazing, isn't it. Not a single principle or value to be seen. Tell me, for all this purity versus power bullshit, what camp are the Tories in right now? Oh, is it both? Cunts.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 23, 2015)

I was kind of interested in how the Guardian's Labour leadership coverage is going down, so in a spate of media wonkery I've gone through the Comment is Free "Future of Labour" section to see how evenhanded or not the opinioneering is. I've counted where the columnist has stated a preference, and how many times they have been included in the slate of articles as presented today.  

*Pro candidate articles

Burnham*
Abbott (But in column sort of pro Corbyn)

*Cooper*
Toynbee (twice)

*Corbyn*
Jones
Moss: Wilderness could help Party

*Kendall*
Behr (four articles)
Cohen
Darling
Reid
Umunna

*Anti candidate articles*
*
Corbyn*
Bale: Be centrist
Behr (four articles): Corbyn is an ideological takeover
Kettle (twice): Be centrist
Moore (twice): Be modern
Perkins: Corbyn must learn to be realistic
Rawnsley (twice): Corbyn = wilderness, perhaps we should let him win to kill the left in 2020
Toynbee: Be centrist
Williams: Corbyn sounds good, kill him with hope

*Kendall*
Hanley
Keegan

*None of the Above*

Harris

*Why I’m running*

Corbyn & Kendall (getting them out of the way early?)


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 23, 2015)

That grade A cunt White has done a number of anti-Corbyn articles too, if you're including Observer pieces?


----------



## ska invita (Jul 24, 2015)

this made me LOL

"In an earlier column on this theme, I suggested that Labour currently faces a choice between purity, as represented by Corbyn, and power, as represented by the other three more reformist candidates in the race. A former Labour frontbencher took me to task, pointing out, as Tony Blair did this week, that it was possible both to win power and to be principled_._ The ex-MP was surely right."  Martin Kettle


----------



## brogdale (Jul 24, 2015)

ska invita said:


> this made me LOL
> 
> "In an earlier column on this theme, I suggested that Labour currently faces a choice between purity, as represented by Corbyn, and power, as represented by the other three more reformist candidates in the race. A former Labour frontbencher took me to task, pointing out, as Tony Blair did this week, that it was possible both to win power and to be principled_._ The ex-MP was surely right."  Martin Kettle


Risible.
The choice is simply between unalloyed facilitation of capital's neo-lib agenda and a more critical, possibilist position. (BBC R4 'Today' again giving Corbyn the "_hard left" _epithet.)


----------



## ska invita (Jul 24, 2015)

brogdale said:


> (BBC R4 'Today' again giving Corbyn the "_hard left" _epithet.)



yeah it really shows how far the compass has shifted, or how far the so called centre has moved to the right. To bring together that and Martin Kettle's dribbling above, Corbyn is really the reformist of the 4 candidates


----------



## emanymton (Jul 24, 2015)

Nice subtle choice of photo here.


----------



## rekil (Jul 24, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> That grade A cunt White has done a number of anti-Corbyn articles too, if you're including Observer pieces?


PD burned by White hot bantz.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2015)

copliker said:


> PD burned by White hot bantz.
> 
> View attachment 74441


to which they should have replied 'although it's certainly not from the lack of trying - doubt even mao did as many in one day as the usaf at hiroshima or nagasaki'


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Nice subtle choice of photo here.


makes him look like he's in a window in the red light district in amsterdam


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 24, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> makes him look like he's in a window in the red light district in amsterdam


don't fancy his chances much


----------



## J Ed (Jul 24, 2015)

Another day another three anti-Corbyn articles

Corbyn is old fashioned and not a woman/Yvette Cooper (hints at sexism without actually making any specific claims because there is nothing to substantiate)
Corbyn has principles and beliefs beyond the acquisition of power and that's a bad thing
Corbyn is analogue and not digital


----------



## J Ed (Jul 24, 2015)

Sunday Observer exclusive: Jeremy Corbyn has WMD which can be prepared to be launched against European capitals within 45 minutes


----------



## Wilf (Jul 24, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Another day another three anti-Corbyn articles
> 
> Corbyn is old fashioned and not a woman/Yvette Cooper (hints at sexism without actually making any specific claims because there is nothing to substantiate)


From another guardian piece a nice little statement of how for cooper equality has been detached from class:


> The Cooper camp is determined to make equality, including women’s equality, a defining issue for her campaign, as well as to make it central to her new appeal as the person who can hold the centre of the party together.
> 
> “I believe that the campaign for equality has stalled. Disability hate crime is growing, maternity discrimination has increased, homophobic bullying isn’t being challenged, antisemitism and islamophobia have increased. Meanwhile the new emerging high tech jobs of the digital age are being predominantly done by men, and there is still a longstanding problem of lack of black and ethnic minority police,” she said.


Even fucking harriet harman had a go at inserting a 'class clause' in equality legislation before the 2010 election (even if in a cynical attempt to shore up working class votes).


----------



## J Ed (Jul 24, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Corbyn is analogue and not digital



I was just looking back at this, it really is god fucking awful. How dare anyone actually attempt to diagnose problems with capitalism instead you are supposed to buzz word yourself into power.

We are just CRYING OUT for age of disruption synergising transformational technology-focused futures, #gamechange your way out of old fashioned outdated analogue throwback paradigms like socialism and dare to edgily reimagine an #innovationstate where every individual can leverage their wealth against divisive bureaucrats and become their own boss in a #bigtent #onenation Britain


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/24/love-letter-greggs-jake-gyllenhaal



> If you do not love Greggs, you do not love life. There is something comforting in mass-produced fast food – that you can find the exact same flavour, from Rhyl to Rotherham, in a sausage roll or a McNugget or a Frappuccino – but Greggs transcends that taste nostalgia into something more: chummier, somehow, straightforward, no messin’.
> 
> Do I think Jake Gyllenhaal appreciates Greggs in the same way we do? No. Do I think he has ever truly noticed it is one of the few fast food places that do savoury as well as they do sweet? No. Has Jake Gyllenhaal ever slunk out of work pretending to do something important but actually gone and eaten three consecutive yum-yums and a serviceable 99p coffee? I do not think so.



Guardian going down the pan thread favourite and all-round waste of space Joel Golby returns with another bewlideringly pointless article, this one apparently derived entirely from a passing remark Jake Gylhenhaal made about baguettes in a radio interview.

Why do they think anyone wants to read this garbage?


----------



## ska invita (Jul 25, 2015)

Every morning now i wake up and wonder, surely there wont be another anti-Corbyn editorial/comment piece? And every day I'm wrong....their journey continues like an angsty teenage diary. Not surprisingly according to this new survey 16% of Corbyn voters are doing so as a protest against the Guardian


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2015)

Every day you wake up thinking about Corbyn?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Every day you wake up thinking about Corbyn?


every day when i wake up i thank the gods i'm not a labour mp


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2015)

Front fucking page:

 

day befores all day:


----------



## mauvais (Jul 25, 2015)

Have they realised they're on to a loser?

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ics-labour-values-conservative-lite?CMP=fb_gu

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-are-turning-towards-jeremy-corbyn?CMP=fb_gu


----------



## J Ed (Jul 25, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I was just looking back at this, it really is god fucking awful. How dare anyone actually attempt to diagnose problems with capitalism instead you are supposed to buzz word yourself into power.
> 
> We are just CRYING OUT for age of disruption synergising transformational technology-focused futures, #gamechange your way out of old fashioned outdated analogue throwback paradigms like socialism and dare to edgily reimagine an #innovationstate where every individual can leverage their wealth against divisive bureaucrats and become their own boss in a #bigtent #onenation Britain



They have actually outdone me


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jul/12/14-ideas-that-could-save-labour



> Faced with putting together an electoral coalition under these conditions, whoever becomes leader will need to be curious and imaginative, unafraid to mix up ideas that create unorthodox hybrids. Ideas that will work will have to appeal to left, right and the non-aligned; those who embrace modern ideas of bottom-up, digitally enabled networks of power as well as those who favour traditional social democratic measures of social justice; create a fairer society through a more inclusive, innovative and productive economy, rather than redistribution. Labour needs to stand for the social self, where the desire for individualism and choice meet an appetite for collaboration and sharing. Creating ideas with that appeal will be like playing with a Rubik’s cube.



Also hey look, guess what's behind the superficial dross - it's neoliberalism



> 1. Schools of life and work
> Advertisement
> 
> Education has become a 16-year apprenticeship in diligently delivering the right answers at the right time, when it needs to prepare young people to be adaptive, persistent, collaborative problem solvers, capable of coping with uncertainty with only limited resources. Above all, young people should go to school to make things – films, software, food, products, art – and learn how to earn a living while also passing exams. That’s why at School 21 in Newham and the Big Picture schools in the US young people spend large chunks of time on properly structured work placements. Labour needs to stop playing catch-up in the standards game and change the game by talking about what education should be for with a massive expansion in creative, vocational learning.



Free skoolz for da disruptor kidz!



> Sixty not-out: time for your second career
> The Encore movement was started by Marc Friedman, a remarkable US social entrepreneur, to help people over 60 to start second, third and fourth careers doing work that matters to them and offers social good. He promotes the movement through an annual Purpose Prize, which invests in entrepreneurs aged over 60 who are changing the world in small yet inspirational ways. Mauricio Lim Miller, one of this year’s winners, for example set up the Family Independence Initiative which enrols groups of families into a support programme so they help one another achieve their goals. It has helped to create 40 lending circles in Oakland, San Francisco, Fresno, Boston, Detroit and New Orleans, pooling over $1.5m in interest-free loans. Labour did badly among older voters. It should create a Purpose Prize and go a step further with an Encore Investment Fund providing very low-cost loans for older entrepreneurs, commercial and social, to set up projects. It does not need to wait until it is in government to do this. It should do it now, while it is out of government, using its own fundraising capacity to create something of lasting value for older voters.



Work till you're dead!



> Universal basic income
> The Tories are leapfrogging Labour by bringing in a Living Wage, while also cutting in-work benefits. That leaves many people with the promise of higher wages but the reality of lower incomes. Labour is left to defend those on “benefits”, an unappealing position. The only effective response is to up the ante by being more radical: simplify welfare, eliminate means-testing and bureaucracy by introducing a universal basic income, linked to a massive increase in volunteering and access to vocational education. Most studies show that basic incomes do not undermine the work ethic but instead encourage people to study to get better-paid jobs. The RSA, led by Matthew Taylor, is about to start exploring how to revive an idea favoured by Milton Friedman and Martin Luther King, precisely the unlikely coalition Labour will need.



Gut the welfare state and throw back a crumb or two! It's what Friedman wanted.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2015)

ska invita said:


> this made me LOL
> 
> "In an earlier column on this theme, I suggested that Labour currently faces a choice between purity, as represented by Corbyn, and power, as represented by the other three more reformist candidates in the race. A former Labour frontbencher took me to task, pointing out, as Tony Blair did this week, that it was possible both to win power and to be principled_._ The ex-MP was surely right."  Martin Kettle



Tony Blair the expert on having principles of course


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2015)

> Faced with putting together an electoral coalition under these conditions, whoever becomes leader will need to be curious and imaginative, unafraid to mix up ideas that create unorthodox hybrids. Ideas that will work will have to appeal to left, right and the non-aligned; those who embrace modern ideas of bottom-up, digitally enabled networks of power as well as those who favour traditional social democratic measures of social justice; create a fairer society through a more inclusive, innovative and productive economy, rather than redistribution. Labour needs to stand for the social self, where the desire for individualism and choice meet an appetite for collaboration and sharing. Creating ideas with that appeal will be like playing with a Rubik’s cube.



What. The suffering fuck. Are you on about.

You can't have a 'bottom-up network of power' ffs. Power is top-down. Having power is what puts you at the top. I'm going to ignore the 'digitally enabled' bit as that obviously got pasted in by mistake from an article from the early 90's.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> What. The suffering fuck. Are you on about.
> 
> You can't have a 'bottom-up network of power' ffs. Power is top-down. Having power is what puts you at the top. I'm going to ignore the 'digitally enabled' bit as that obviously got pasted in by mistake from an article from the early 90's.


what is this power of which you speak and from where does it derive?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what is this power of which you speak and from where does it derive?



Doesn't matter. The phrase 'bottom-up networks of power' is meaningless no matter what sort of power you're talking about. Same as you can't have a bottom-up food chain.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Doesn't matter. The phrase 'bottom-up networks of power' is meaningless no matter what sort of power you're talking about. Same as you can't have a bottom-up food chain.


so it doesn't matter that you can't say what it is or where it comes from. we're just supposed to trust you on this one. not good enough.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so it doesn't matter that you can't say what it is or where it comes from. we're just supposed to trust you on this one. not good enough.



The bloke I was quoting doesn't say where the power comes from either, take it up with him. 

He's advocating a load of neoliberal bollocks in that article, where does the power come from in neoliberalism? Capital, economics. Not, as he'd have us believe, from primary schools politely asking the local council to close a few roads for an afternoon so the kids can have a street party.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 26, 2015)

I'd really like to have more power over my own life, and with lots of others, from the bottom up, getting to decide how that is done and for what purposes.  Not like the article vaguely talks about, where I'm guessing these 'networks' are of a specialised nature (in terms of access to certain kinds of work and higher standards of living) filled with people drawn from a higher class (although some might use a class analysis to redefine themselves as prole) who have done well on this society's terms precisely because many more (most) have not.  _Power, _too much of it_,_ is in the wrong few hands.


----------



## binka (Jul 26, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> to which they should have replied 'although it's certainly not from the lack of trying - doubt even mao did as many in one day as the usaf at hiroshima or nagasaki'


Afaik the usaf has never bombed either hiroshima or nagasaki, is it possible you are mistaken and meant the usaaf?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2015)

binka said:


> Afaik the usaf has never bombed either hiroshima or nagasaki, is it possible you are mistaken and meant the usaaf?


thank you for highlighting a typo, the usaf not of course in existence until 1947


----------



## binka (Jul 26, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> thank you for highlighting a typo, the usaf not of course in existence until 1947


Glad i could help clarify the situation and am delighted to hear it was merely a typo rather than a genuine error


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2015)

binka said:


> Glad i could help clarify the situation and am delighted to hear it was merely a typo rather than a genuine error


i'm glad you were about helping to clarify the situation with your detailed knowledge of american air power in the 1940s.


----------



## rekil (Jul 26, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> to which they should have replied 'although it's certainly not from the lack of trying - doubt even mao did as many in one day as the usaf at hiroshima or nagasaki'


Nah, that way lies madness - enough done to expose how shallow he is and it's probably best to let him think he 'won'.


----------



## binka (Jul 26, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm glad you were about helping to clarify the situation with your detailed knowledge of american air power in the 1940s.


Well that's very kind of you to say but you're making me blush - my knowledge of american air power in the 1940s is rudimentary at best, anyone with even the most basic grasp of the events of ww2 would know it was the usaaf not the usaf


----------



## andysays (Jul 26, 2015)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 26, 2015)

binka said:


> Well that's very kind of you to say but you're making me blush - my knowledge of american air power in the 1940s is rudimentary at best, anyone with even the most basic grasp of the events of ww2 would know it was the usaaf not the usaf


which i did and do know but there was an unfortunate typo. apart from you only an überpedant confident in his encyclopedic knowledge of american air power would have pointed it out. how glad i am, how glad we all are, that you're not an überpedant.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 26, 2015)

copliker said:


> Nah, that way lies madness - enough done to expose how shallow he is and it's probably best to let him think he 'won'.



Well yeah, it's okay to rain death on people for years on end if their government is technically an ideologically unique 'national people's democratic revolution' run by Stalinists.  So while altered to add more radical content while simultaneously eyeing up full national liberation,  it wasn't proper fucking working class yet.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2015)

Meet the next leader of the LP....only £15.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 26, 2015)

They are charging for a hustings? wtf?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2015)

J Ed said:


> They are charging for a hustings? wtf?





> Members (£12) can attend events that *take the power of open journalism from print and digital into live experiences.*


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2015)

where is burnahms neck? He is as neckless as jools holland


----------



## JTG (Jul 26, 2015)

J Ed said:


> They are charging for a hustings? wtf?


It's not even a hustings. The audience don't necessarily have a vote anyway


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 26, 2015)

JTG said:


> It's not even a hustings. The audience don't necessarily have a vote anyway


But they are _Guardian readers with money_. So a vital constituency that candidates need to address.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 26, 2015)

Corbyn should refuse to go


----------



## brogdale (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm a little confused; neither Jones or Brand are listed as participating.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 27, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ron-extremism-struggle-generation-abdul-wahid 

Peter Oborne interviews his mate from Hizb ut Tahrir.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 27, 2015)

"Luxury high-rises like the Aykon Tower, ‘poor doors’ and off-plan sales to the overseas super-rich can all play a role in tackling the city’s housing crisis"


----------



## YouSir (Jul 27, 2015)

J Ed said:


> "Luxury high-rises like the Aykon Tower, ‘poor doors’ and off-plan sales to the overseas super-rich can all play a role in tackling the city’s housing crisis"



'Yes, it’s sickening. Yes, things shouldn’t be this way. And, yes, those objections may have some force. But do you want those 90 homes or don’t you?'

Take what you're given and be fucking grateful. And if not get out and don't let the poor door smack you on the way out. Surrender dressed as pragmatism. Not that people toeing this line ever lose anything of course.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 27, 2015)

Vote Cooper/Kendall or you're sexist because Labour is a corporation and it needs a woman like Thatcher or Merkel


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Vote Cooper/Kendall or you're sexist because Labour is a corporation and it needs a woman like Thatcher or Merkel


i wouldn't trust cooper or kendall to run 100m let alone run a political party. not that burnham's any better.


----------



## JTG (Jul 27, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Vote Cooper/Kendall or you're sexist because Labour is a corporation and it needs a woman like Thatcher or Merkel


She's churning out those mental 'anyone but Corbyn' articles at a staggering rate isn't she?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 27, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i wouldn't trust cooper or kendall to rune100m let alone run a political party. not that burnham's any better.



Greebo says she wouldn't trust any of that 3 to run a bath.


----------



## JTG (Jul 29, 2015)

'UK outside London is basically Bath, Cornwall and the Home Counties, full of racist yokels and terrifying for non-white folk' 
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/28/white-people-smug-leaving-london


----------



## YouSir (Jul 29, 2015)

JTG said:


> 'UK outside London is basically Bath, Cornwall and the Home Counties, full of racist yokels and terrifying for non-white folk'
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/28/white-people-smug-leaving-london



Guardian talks to Guardian, their favorite conversation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Guardian talks to Guardian, their favorite conversation.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2015)

JTG said:


> 'UK outside London is basically Bath, Cornwall and the Home Counties, full of racist yokels and terrifying for non-white folk'
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/28/white-people-smug-leaving-london


Happy to bugger off to  oxford though wasn't she? 

Figures obtained under Freedom of Information Act reveal white applicants up to twice as likely to get place, despite same grades


----------



## YouSir (Jul 29, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Happy to bugger off to  oxford though wasn't she?
> 
> Figures obtained under Freedom of Information Act reveal white applicants up to twice as likely to get place, despite same grades



Also lists her location on Twitter as London and New York. So good to know she's deep in the struggle to stay in London.


----------



## JTG (Jul 29, 2015)

Birmingham, Manchester, Leicester, Bristol, Bradford... all places you'll never see a black or brown face. Better stay in London or it'll be full KKK before you know it


----------



## YouSir (Jul 29, 2015)

JTG said:


> Birmingham, Manchester, Leicester, Bristol, Bradford... all places you'll never see a black or brown face. Better stay in London or it'll be full KKK before you know it



Remember it's the Guardian, fairly sure that means at least two of the places you listed don't actually exist.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 29, 2015)

JTG said:


> 'UK outside London is basically Bath, Cornwall and the Home Counties, full of racist yokels and terrifying for non-white folk'
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/28/white-people-smug-leaving-london


 


> The headline and text of this article were amended on 29 July 2015 to ensure consistency with Guardian editorial guidelines.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 29, 2015)

YouSir said:


> Guardian talks to Guardian, their favorite conversation.


 And for just £49 you too can join an audience of fellow brand-loyal readers and watch a fascinating live panel discussion (moderated by Some Twitter Pal Of Gogarty/Ambreen/The Geeky One What Used To Work For Wikileaks But Now Does The Graun's Pie Charts) version of the same


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 29, 2015)

I'll be sure to tell the 'cluster of guest workers' in sunny kettering about their new guardian appointed status as guest workers, rather than people who live here.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


>



Why did they print it then?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 29, 2015)

that is just some lazy shit from hadley freeman.


----------



## belboid (Jul 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> that is just some lazy shit from hadley freeman.


she's cheap.  Shame she cant write


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 29, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> The Geeky One What Used To Work For Wikileaks But Now Does The Graun's Pie Charts



He's off to Buzzfeed, being one of Janine Gibson's proteges. He's done some actual proper journalism though.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jul 29, 2015)

Okay, I can't take it any more. They are just churning out so much shit at the moment - even the headlines of the comment pieces make me shudder with revulsion. If I actually click on them it's worse. So what should be my first stop for mainstream UK news instead of the guardian? I often use al jazeera for international news but their UK news is minimal. Any ideas?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 29, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 29, 2015)

Brainaddict said:


> Okay, I can't take it any more. They are just churning out so much shit at the moment - even the headlines of the comment pieces make me shudder with revulsion. If I actually click on them it's worse. So what should be my first stop for mainstream UK news instead of the guardian? I often use al jazeera for international news but their UK news is minimal. Any ideas?


Stop reading the news. I stopped reading much beyond the headlines years ago. It frees up so much time for more fun reading.


----------



## rekil (Jul 29, 2015)

A proper double whammy here.

'Vote for Jeremy Corbyn, and help raise the Lib Dems from the dead'



> I am not one of those who believes it was a mistake for the Lib Dems to go into coalition – either at all, or with the Conservatives. The coalition was a better government than it was often given credit for, and only two months into a Conservative-only administration, the value of the Lib Dems’ constraining influence is already apparent.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Stop reading the news. I stopped reading much beyond the headlines years ago. It frees up so much time for more fun reading.



Pretty much the only paper I read for actual news these days is Private Eye, I don't expect to get anything out of the mainstream dailies. Headlines on news 24 (it plays all the time at work) and the comment is free section of the Guardian website for a giggle keeps me mostly up to date.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Stop reading the news. I stopped reading much beyond the headlines years ago. It frees up so much time for more fun reading.


the quality of writing better in the headlines than in the body of the text.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2015)

Isn't it odd every single article in the guardian culture section is open to comments except the one about one of their writers?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 30, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Isn't it odd every single article in the guardian culture section is open to comments except the one about one of their writers?


That's about that stupid Jack The Ripper museum that pretended to be a feminism museum


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2015)

Er...thanks for telling me that


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> That's about that stupid Jack The Ripper museum that pretended to be a feminism museum


http://www.theguardian.com/profile/mark-palmer-edgecumbe


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 30, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/profile/mark-palmer-edgecumbe


Ah, right, thought it was the wrong link or summat


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 30, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/30/north-korea-gap-year-student-sex-drugs

are we gonna get similar articles about raqqa university in a couple of years?


----------



## killer b (Jul 30, 2015)

I wonder when 4 months became a year?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 30, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/29/the-british-jihadis-killed-in-iraq-and-syria 

when are we gonna get a nice "balanced" article about all of the people these loons murdered? 



> The 18-year-old from Brighton was killed within weeks of joining the Syrian conflict in February 2014, reportedly while fighting in Kassab, near the Turkish border. He left for Syria the month before to fight Assad regime forces without his parents' consent, and had been accompanied by his brothers. The Guardian received confirmation of his death from his family. His father, Abubaker Deghayes, said: "I hope, as Muslims we believe, that he died in the battle … for a just cause. He died as a martyr.”


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 30, 2015)

> Reports of Abu Isaa's death circulated in April 2015, but he is thought to have been killed in November, one of the deadliest months for British jihadis in the region. Isaa is thought to be of Somali ethnicity.



erm is it too sensitive of me to find this sort of reporting ridiculous?

"one of the deadliest months for british jihadis"

erm, who cares? November was also the month tracked by the ICSR that revealed the average number of deaths at any month due to violent jihad was over 5,000 people.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2015)

time for one of these to force the fucker past the u-bend


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 30, 2015)

> Also known as Abu Abdur-Rahman, the former public schoolboy from Portsmouth had worked in customer services at Sky, and travelled to Syria in November 2013. He was valued as the chef of his Isis battalion and was killed by a tank shell in December while taking part in an assault on a major arms depot in al-Khair. He had made media appearances, including on Newsnight, explaining that it was his duty to fight and provided online advice encouraging other Britons to travel to Syria.




"valued"? as in "he was a valued member of our team" I'm sure the whole of isis will dreadfully miss him  dunno how they'll come to terms with this, that's how "valued" he was!

he even appeared on newsnight and made media appearances, wow how sad, if isis had been recognised as a state perhaps he could have had a column in the guardian


----------



## Flavour (Jul 30, 2015)

Coming to an airport bookshop near you in the within the next 3 years: "I was a Caliphate Cowboy"


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 30, 2015)

Flavour said:


> Coming to an airport bookshop near you in the within the next 3 years: "I was a Caliphate Cowboy"



Some people call him Maurice


----------



## Libertad (Jul 30, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Some people call him Maurice


----------



## J Ed (Jul 31, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> erm is it too sensitive of me to find this sort of reporting ridiculous?
> 
> "one of the deadliest months for british jihadis"
> 
> erm, who cares? November was also the month tracked by the ICSR that revealed the average number of deaths at any month due to violent jihad was over 5,000 people.



Yes, fuck ISIS and this weird sympathy from the Graunid, maybe they are getting confused because of their other writers comparing ISIS to Corbyn. I hope that as the months go on they get deadlier and deadlier for the scum


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I hope that as the months go on they get deadlier and deadlier for the scum


The Kings Place mob or Daesh?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 31, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Yes, fuck ISIS and this weird sympathy from the Graunid, maybe they are getting confused because of their other writers comparing ISIS to Corbyn.



Nah. They really hate Jeremy Corbyn.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 31, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Yes, fuck ISIS and this weird sympathy from the Graunid, maybe they are getting confused because of their other writers comparing ISIS to Corbyn. I hope that as the months go on they get deadlier and deadlier for the scum



Yeah, 'valued as the chief of his ISIS battalion'? 'Valued' by ISIS? wtf? What about all the people he beheaded, raped and so on? He deserves absolute contempt, not to be eulogised in the grauniad because of his 'media appearances'


----------



## Belushi (Jul 31, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah, 'valued as the chief of his ISIS battalion'? 'Valued' by ISIS? wtf? What about all the people he beheaded, raped and so on? He deserves absolute contempt, not to be eulogised in the grauniad because of his 'media appearances'



I wonder if they were doing the same articles in 1944

_'Young Hans-Dietrich was a valued member of his Einzatsgruppen..'_


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 31, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I wonder if they were doing the same articles in 1944
> 
> _'Young Hans-Dietrich was a valued member of his Einzatsgruppen..'_



yes but was hans-dietrich on the nightly news to explain mr. hitler's policy on the jewish question? were the manchester guardian possibly thinking about head-hunting him to write the equivalent of total dross?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 31, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I wonder if they were doing the same articles in 1944
> 
> _'Young Hans-Dietrich was a valued member of his Einzatsgruppen..'_


to busy decrying every strike or union activity going I imagine


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 31, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-fandy-andy-burnham-labour-leader?CMP=twt_gu

shut up shut up shut up


----------



## J Ed (Jul 31, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...n-fandy-andy-burnham-labour-leader?CMP=twt_gu
> 
> shut up shut up shut up



They have another article today suggesting that the debate around the leadership has become facile. Well, that's true but the Guardian is more to blame for that than any other media outlet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 31, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I wonder if they were doing the same articles in 1944
> 
> _'Young Hans-Dietrich was a valued member of his Einzatsgruppen..'_



_...always ready to use his entrenching tool to chop off a Yid head if a gun jammed,and to rape extra women if one of his comrades had over-done the beer the night before. He also cooked a mean knockwurst stew with liver dumplings"._


----------



## Indeliblelink (Aug 3, 2015)

squirming
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ing-the-balance-of-our-jeremy-corbyn-coverage


----------



## J Ed (Aug 3, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> squirming
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ing-the-balance-of-our-jeremy-corbyn-coverage





> Despite the low point reached in the 60s when you supported the US war in Vietnam for a while



I had no idea about that, wow.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 3, 2015)

The Guardian has a long history of being on the wrong side


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 3, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> squirming
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ing-the-balance-of-our-jeremy-corbyn-coverage



It's an embarrassing exercise isn't it. 'Well this one says Corbyn generally gets his round in down the pub. Think we can call that a positive. Whereas this one says he's literally the devil incarnate and will bring the world to its knees. We'll call that a negative I suppose. So we don't look too biased. Reckon we can be pleased with our overall objectivity then.'


----------



## J Ed (Aug 3, 2015)

We have graphs, disregard accusations of bias because science


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 3, 2015)

On a related note, their interview with Liz Kendall is strangely not open for comments. Weird. 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/01/liz-kendall-admits-jeremy--corbyn-in-the-lead


----------



## ska invita (Aug 3, 2015)

Belushi said:


> The Guardian has a long history of being on the wrong side


 

*50,000 editions of the imperialist, warmongering, hate-filled Guardian newspaper




*
fun pamphlet C&P'd here
*http://neo-jacobins.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/neo-jacobin-special-against-guardian.html*


----------



## treelover (Aug 3, 2015)

http://www.sodiumhaze.org/2015/07/26

Discussion on who is on the new board of Scott Trust, lots of bankers sadly.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 4, 2015)

"Free to dream, I’d be left of Jeremy Corbyn..." - without looking name the Guardianista?

answer


Spoiler: wuh?



that disappointed dreamer Polly Toynbee


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 4, 2015)

From that Polly Toynbee piece:



> Many of us share the Labour leadership frontrunner’s core beliefs, but tactically the best chance lies with Yvette Cooper
> 
> Labour’s dilemma is that most Corbyn policies are supported by most Labour members. The dispute is not, as Corbynites claim, about core beliefs previously betrayed – but about tactics on how to win so as to put them into practice. Blown-away Blairites now in the private defence, health and finance industries may no longer share recognisably Labour values.
> 
> But most still inside the fold, especially those rooting for Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham, even Liz Kendall supporters, may agree with much that Corbyn says. Leave aside his alarming prevarications on the EU referendum and his “friends” in Hamas and Hezbollah, many of his policies stir deep longings in Labour hearts.



So the best way to get left wing policies enacted is to vote for a candidate who doesn't have any left wing policies, but who is more likely to get elected, as you can see from the fact that she's less popular then Corbyn.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 4, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I had no idea about that, wow.


It's the old Mark Steel gag about the Guardian having a fine tradition of opposing imperialist wars, after there over.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 4, 2015)

'Why the national gallery strikes are turning me into a tory'


----------



## Belushi (Aug 5, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> 'Why the national gallery strikes are turning me into a tory'



I see it's that Jonathan Jones twat again. You honestly couldn't make it up http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...-strikes-turn-me-tory-mark-serwotka-pcs-union


----------



## Libertad (Aug 5, 2015)

> Whose side am I on? Not Mark Serwotka’s. Go on, call me a Tory. I am crying because the hard left is probably going to turn me into one.



Suck it up my precious.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 5, 2015)

They appear to be having a proper meltdown at Kings Place at the moment.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2015)

Not another feckin "I'm really left wing, how dare the Hard Left call me a Tory" article.


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2015)

Anyone who thinks there's a 'hard left' in the labour party is de facto a Tory, never mind the scab shit.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2015)

It's a _runaway_ hard-left campaign too.


> If I don’t immediately break into a chorus of The Red Flag, it may be because Serwotka also appeared this week alongside Jeremy Corbyn in the runaway hard-left campaign that is among other things, reviving the political influence of trade unions. That Labour party I’ve voted for all my adult life and in the past belonged to? They’re about to make it unelectable.


How dare they bring _unions_ into the _Labour Party_? Broken Britain.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I see it's that Jonathan Jones twat again. You honestly couldn't make it up http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...-strikes-turn-me-tory-mark-serwotka-pcs-union


"I have to be a socialist in a museum now" WTF? Is one only a socialist in certain situations? Does one only support unions if one's pastime is not disrupted by their actions? What a knobber.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2015)

I posted that article on FB and Mrs Magpie responded with this:


----------



## Favelado (Aug 5, 2015)

Is there a smugger-faced cunt in the world?


----------



## Favelado (Aug 5, 2015)

I said world but meant omniverse.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 5, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I posted that article on FB and Mrs Magpie responded with this:
> View attachment 74925



Eminently punchable face.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Aug 5, 2015)

I see there's a blog full of these -
http://commentisweird.tumblr.com/

the names are brilliant


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## Indeliblelink (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I see it's that Jonathan Jones twat again. You honestly couldn't make it up http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...-strikes-turn-me-tory-mark-serwotka-pcs-union



Seriously. I’ve never voted anything butLabour in my life. Can’t you at least let me alone when I’m looking at Titian? I have to be a socialist in the museum now? Is it blacklegging to look at Leonardo?


Wtf its even worse than the title


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## andysays (Aug 5, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I see it's that Jonathan Jones twat again. You honestly couldn't make it up http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...-strikes-turn-me-tory-mark-serwotka-pcs-union



Just when you think they've reached their absolute nadir, they sink a little deeper


----------



## Indeliblelink (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## gimesumtruf (Aug 5, 2015)

Yes the Blairites method is to LISTEN & IGNORE, every bleeding one of them and they have been doing it for years.
As if the Tories aren't enough to put up with, it's tiring and soul destroying.

Then you come on here though and every person innocently wearing a blue hat is called a murderous Tory and to be publicly executed.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## Libertad (Aug 5, 2015)

gimesumtruf said:


> Then you come on here though and every person innocently wearing a blue hat is called a murderous Tory and to be publicly executed.



Only fair though.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## Libertad (Aug 5, 2015)

frogwoman said:


>



He looks like a hipster Hugh Dennis. I am shit at lookie-likies tbf.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 5, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


>


Too plausibly close to reality to actually be funny.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...15/aug/04/refugee-nation-migration-jason-buzi

Well I dunno Jason, there are a couple of states in the middle east with dubious legitimacy whose aim is supposedly to look after persecuted people from all over the world

Dunno what could possibly go wrong here


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...15/aug/04/refugee-nation-migration-jason-buzi
> 
> Well I dunno Jason, there are a couple of states in the middle east with dubious legitimacy whose aim is supposedly to look after persecuted people from all over the world
> 
> Dunno what could possibly go wrong here


let the zionists have the autonomous region in siberia and then the void where the zionist entity currently is can become a more equitable and shared territory.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 5, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/global-d...15/aug/04/refugee-nation-migration-jason-buzi
> 
> Well I dunno Jason, there are a couple of states in the middle east with dubious legitimacy whose aim is supposedly to look after persecuted people from all over the world
> 
> Dunno what could possibly go wrong here


The article is not particularly supportive of the idea


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 5, 2015)

Libertad said:


> He looks like a hipster Hugh Dennis. I am shit at lookie-likies tbf.



...you are indeed...you're thinking of Jack Whitehall...


----------



## Favelado (Aug 5, 2015)

This one outdoes parody.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/aug/05/upside-down-ice-cream-cone-trend


----------



## rekil (Aug 5, 2015)

They're coming thick and fast lately.





> History has shown that movements which emerge on the outer fringes of the political spectrum are often dangerous. They are not the places to look for answers. Instead, the centre should be re-formed from within, with more charismatic leaders being one of the most crucial needs.



Ah that's the student award person again.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 5, 2015)




----------



## rekil (Aug 5, 2015)

I like that "History has shown" meme. Any old hand wavy bollocks can follow it.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 5, 2015)

WTF is going on there? The hysteria is ludicrous. Is Rusbridger cowering in some kind of liberal fuhrer bunker?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2015)

did they go this spare over the scottish indyreff? there was so much noise at the time I can't remember.


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2015)

Rusbridger took the carriage clock and fucked off a few months ago didn't he?


----------



## teqniq (Aug 5, 2015)

Belushi said:


> WTF is going on there? The hysteria is ludicrous. Is Rusbridger cowering in some kind of liberal fuhrer bunker?


Katharine Viner editor in chief

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/20/guardian-appoints-katharine-viner-new-editor-in-chief


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2015)

copliker said:


>



But does youth need the liberal centre ground? No. The BNP probably need my support as well but do you know what, they can't have it either.


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2015)

This is exposing more clearly than ever the role the guardian serves in holding the neo-liberal line. They're fucking off loads of their readers, but ploughing on regardless -  it's reminiscent of the Labour party in Scotland around the referendum - bubble arseholes with little concept of the damage they're doing to themselves.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 5, 2015)

It really has become a parody of itself of late. I link to a lot of news pieces but with regard to the opinion/politics pieces if I link to them more often than not it's to take the piss.


----------



## JTG (Aug 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> did they go this spare over the scottish indyreff? there was so much noise at the time I can't remember.


From memory they got close but they did publish more pro pieces from the likes of Kevin McKenna as well.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 5, 2015)

Saw the Evening Standard piece on Corbyn's housing proposals today. Thought it looked more balanced than anything I'd seen in the guardian. They merely neutrally commented that the policies would cause concern to landlords but would be welcomed by many tenants  

Comes to something when I think the guardian can learn from the Low Standard.


----------



## JTG (Aug 5, 2015)

Absolute filth:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...-tea-needs-to-copy-coffee-in-order-to-survive


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)

Kelly calls her staff “tearistas” and warns against apologising to customers who stumble in looking for coffee. “We made a choice. Don’t be sorry,” she says. 

Wtf. Novel approach to customer service that


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2015)

“It does reflect the coffee culture in many ways,” Kelly says. “Coffee has become so particular, almost like wine,” she says. “We drink tea second only to water and yet we still think it’s OK to have a teabag thrown in a cup of boiling hot water. It seemed like an obvious gap in the market.” There were precedents for how to fill that gap: her business partner was impressed by the tea-bar scene in San Francisco. In 2012 Starbucks acquired the US tea bar chain Teavana.


Where is she getting her coffee from?


----------



## Belushi (Aug 5, 2015)

I liked this comment :thumbs :



> When did Britain become a nation of bell-ends?


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2015)

that one stood out to me too.


----------



## sihhi (Aug 5, 2015)

This one I'm interested in people's opinions SpineyNorman Pickman's model and everyone

http://www.theguardian.com/guardian...-great-journalism-jon-henley-emma-john-course

It's for young people 16-19 only but there are only 16 places, if take an hour as lunch the cost per hour comes in well over £25/hour. The whole thing is £600.

*Date: *Monday 17-Friday 21 August 2015
*Times:* 10.30am-4pm
*Location:* The Guardian, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9GU
*Price: *£599 (includes VAT, booking fee, lunch and refreshments)
*Event capacity:* 16

It seems just like a way to secure contacts to gain entry into the Guardian offices for a student internship later to then secure a Guardian job later.
What exactly can you learn in 5 days as a 17 year old novice? Perhaps a lot??

What should people demand about stuff like this:

1 That it shouldn't happen at all nonacademic journalists keep skills to themselves.

or 

2 It be free/ a mini-apprenticeship scheme (where they pay participants) and open to all on the basis of a means test of the most deserving, which probably patronises/screws up anyone who is selected.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 5, 2015)

That looks like a license to print money to me. Proper pisstake


----------



## sihhi (Aug 5, 2015)

teqniq said:


> That looks like a license to print money to me. Proper pisstake



Isn't there are a concern that those students with parents to afford £600 will remain on Guardian books / with contacts so as to push out Joe/Joanna Bloggs without any fancy courses and just a Btec or a ordinary university.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2015)

sihhi said:


> This one I'm interested in people's opinions SpineyNorman Pickman's model and everyone
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/guardian...-great-journalism-jon-henley-emma-john-course
> 
> ...


the trad way into journalism was to pay your dues on a local rag. this is creating a self-selecting elite with scant knoeledge of writing or genuine investihative journalism but knowing how to be a hack, and a patroniding bigoted grauniad hack at that


----------



## teqniq (Aug 5, 2015)

sihhi said:


> Isn't there are a concern that those students with parents to afford £600 will remain on Guardian books / with contacts so as to push out Joe/Joanna Bloggs without any fancy courses and just a Btec or a ordinary university.



Actually yes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2015)

typos intended btw


----------



## sihhi (Aug 5, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> *the trad way into journalism was to pay your dues on a local rag.* this is creating a self-selecting elite with scant knoeledge of writing or genuine investihative journalism but knowing how to be a hack, and a patroniding bigoted grauniad hack at that



there's so few actual journalists on local newspapers, hackney will be better than elsewhere but there's a team of 3 three under one editor/manager at the Enfield Independent, and I believe even some of them double up at other Newsquest local titles. They're covering like a population of 325,000 apparently Enfield has more people than Nottingham


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2015)

Hackney's pretty shit too tbh, Archant doesn't even take freelance any more, it's all organised in "news hubs" which employs sod all people.

The worst of it is that the regionals got rid of all the more expensive old hacks who actually knew how to run down stories on their patch and replaced them with middle class cubs who came straight in via the NCTJ/NVQ route. So not only are most of them unused to (and often don't care about or have time for) carrying out the sort of investigating needed to find the news other people don't want told, they're never going to be taught it. As an industry it's been eviscerated and the subsequent loss of readers is entirely the fault of idiot moneygrubbers who valued short-term profits over long-term development.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2015)

Rob Ray said:


> Hackney's pretty shit too tbh, Archant doesn't even take freelance any more, it's all organised in "news hubs" which employs sod all people.
> 
> The worst of it is that the regionals got rid of all the more expensive old hacks who actually knew how to run down stories on their patch and replaced them with middle class cubs who came straight in via the NCTJ/NVQ route. So not only are most of them unused to (and often don't care about) carrying out the sort of investigating needed to find the news other people don't want told, they're never going to be taught it. As an industry, it'd been eviscerated and the subsequent loss of readers is entirely the fault of the idiot moneygrubbers who valued short-term profits over long-term development.


and that's another reason why the guardian's shit


----------



## J Ed (Aug 5, 2015)

sihhi said:


> Isn't there are a concern that those students with parents to afford £600 will remain on Guardian books / with contacts so as to push out Joe/Joanna Bloggs without any fancy courses and just a Btec or a ordinary university.



I have a friend who won Guardian student journalist of the year in his category for his work on the student newspaper at his university, he got a few (unpaid) articles put in the paper and got an unpaid internship out of it and then... nothing. He couldn't afford to stay in London with no income and so do multiple internships across different papers getting experience (unlike urban75 member and violent Marxist urban insurrectionist Laurie Penny) and he had no contacts in journalism or anywhere really so he's given up. It's a shame, he's a very good writer and what he writes is very funny and incisive. Much better than most of the Graunid dross but there's no way in for him. As far as I can tell you need 1) private school 2) Oxbridge 3) the ability to live in London for like a year unpaid


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 5, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Is there a smugger-faced cunt in the world?


White


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> White


I'll raise you a goldacre.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 6, 2015)

although Goldacre is actually quite good value


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 6, 2015)

> As far as I can tell you need 1) private school 2) Oxbridge 3) the ability to live in London for like a year unpaid



having a relative in the org is also a known route


----------



## J Ed (Aug 6, 2015)

https://libcom.org/blog/if-strike-turns-you-tory-you-probably-were-one-anyway-05082015


----------



## The Pale King (Aug 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> https://libcom.org/blog/if-strike-turns-you-tory-you-probably-were-one-anyway-05082015



*Jonathan Jones wrote:*
Could it possibly be that the real ideologue here is not Nicholas Penny, the retiring National Gallery director who writes books about Raphael, but Mark Serwotka, the avowedly politicised union leader who speaks alongside Corbyn?

=Books about Rafael = my kind of chap. 'Avowedly politicised union leader' = not my kind of chap. 

"Social clubs in drag disguise..."


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 8, 2015)

Jones is excelling himself here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cynics-corbynites-pure-socialism?CMP=soc_3156


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Kelly calls her staff “tearistas” and warns against apologising to customers who stumble in looking for coffee. “We made a choice. Don’t be sorry,” she says.
> 
> Wtf. Novel approach to customer service that



If only there was some way to sell both tea _and_ coffee out of the same establishment. Then this senseless war could finally end.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 8, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> If only there was some way to sell both tea _and_ coffee out of the same establishment. Then this senseless war could finally end.


----------



## andysays (Aug 8, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> If only there was some way to sell both tea _and_ coffee out of the same establishment. Then this senseless war could finally end.



Pah, liberal fence-sitting bullshit.

Choose a side, FFS


----------



## J Ed (Aug 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Jones is excelling himself here:
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cynics-corbynites-pure-socialism?CMP=soc_3156



I don't know why but I did read through that entire article and I could not identify one single discussion of a policy which this liberal scab or Corbyn is in favour of, not one. Just the USSR is bad and Corbyn is basically like the USSR so he is bad, I used to think that the USSR was good but now I know it's bad which is why I am wise enough to know that Corbyn is bad and I am good. The closest we get to policy discussion is 'I believe the only ethical politics of the left today has to be moderate, reasoning, and sceptical' which is pretty typical of these articles. If he wrote anything else then he would have to actually justify his extreme neoliberal views, or identify the fact that Corbyn's politics are basically warmed up Keynesianism.

I am a moderate intelligent person which is why I know that the rich must get richer and the poor must get poorer and if you were rational and sceptical like me then you could understand why too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 8, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Jones is excelling himself here:
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...cynics-corbynites-pure-socialism?CMP=soc_3156


what a gigatic bell. I bet in his taxi ride of freedom amongst wealthy muscovites he didn't see what unrestrained crash-course capital would do to the lives of ordinary people


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Aug 8, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> “It does reflect the coffee culture in many ways,” Kelly says. “Coffee has become so particular, almost like wine,” she says. “We drink tea second only to water and yet we still think it’s OK to have a teabag thrown in a cup of boiling hot water. It seemed like an obvious gap in the market.” There were precedents for how to fill that gap: her business partner was impressed by the tea-bar scene in San Francisco. In 2012 Starbucks acquired the US tea bar chain Teavana.
> 
> 
> Where is she getting her coffee from?



Kelly is talking nonsense about tea. I use Nero and Costa Coffee shops regularly where I buy tea not coffee. I have never tried Starbucks but they probably do tea. I was in Hemel Hempstead the other day and tried Nero who told me they had just closed - this was at ten to six in the afternoon. So I went up the road to a place called Tika or Tiki or similar. I had a delicious tea and when I checked the teapot it had loose leaves in it in a metal mesh container sitting just under the lid. This is much better than the teabags used by Nero and Costa. Or perhaps their choice of tea was just better. I also had a Tiramasu cupcake which was at least as good as a double chocolate muffin I would have got in Nero/Costa.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 8, 2015)

Nero/Costa/Eat usually just bung a Twinnings tea back in, which is annoying as it costs as much for a cup as it does for a box


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2015)

The dismal Nick Cohen gets half way through a Pizza express workers tips piece, before seamlessly drifting into laughable anti  Corbyn rant : http://gu.com/p/4bc2v/stw


----------



## crossthebreeze (Aug 9, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Nero/Costa/Eat usually just bung a Twinnings tea back in, which is annoying as it costs as much for a cup as it does for a box


Neo/Costa/Starbucks etc are the worst places for tea - made with water that is way below boiling, often with a one-cup tea bag but with a cup that is way too big, with milk put in before the brewing process is completed and the tea bag squeezed - it just ends up as an overpriced, tasteless but slightly bitter mess.
Almost any cafe from greasy spoon to posh will do a decent cup of tea for much cheaper, and even chains like Greggs and Harry Ramsdens will use some variation of stronger tea bags/smaller cups/hotter water so that their tea isn't too bad.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 9, 2015)

cantsin said:


> The dismal Nick Cohen gets half way through a Pizza express workers tips piece, before seamlessly drifting into laughable anti  Corbyn rant : http://gu.com/p/4bc2v/stw


Yup it's transparent shite.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 9, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Yup it's transparent shite.


When you come across some Type 7 Cohen it's time to see a doctor.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 9, 2015)




----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 9, 2015)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Kelly is talking nonsense about tea. I use Nero and Costa Coffee shops regularly where I buy tea not coffee. I have never tried Starbucks but they probably do tea. I was in Hemel Hempstead the other day...


(((((Hokey)))))


> ...and tried Nero who told me they had just closed - this was at ten to six in the afternoon. So I went up the road to a place called Tika or Tiki or similar. I had a delicious tea and when I checked the teapot it had loose leaves in it in a metal mesh container sitting just under the lid. This is much better than the teabags used by Nero and Costa.



Loose leaf tea invariably makes a more tasty cuppa than a teabag does, in my "tea snob" experience.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 10, 2015)

Nick Cohen is a lightweight cunt defending the left cheek of the arse


----------



## J Ed (Aug 10, 2015)

When Corbyn opposes bombing Libya that's bad but when Blair supports the Gaddafi's dictatorship that's good

When Corbyn appears on Iranian telly that's bad, but when Blair jets around the world doing PR for even worse regimes that's good


----------



## Celyn (Aug 10, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> If only there was some way to sell both tea _and_ coffee out of the same establishment. Then this senseless war could finally end.



Ah, one can only dream.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

no one seems to have seen saturdays's article about spiritualism


----------



## Libertad (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no one seems to have seen saturdays's article about spiritualism



That's because it's ethereal and immaterial.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

Libertad said:


> That's because it's ethereal and immaterial.


i regret it is wholly material http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...s-spiritualist-medium-speak-to-my-dead-father


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i regret it is wholly material http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...s-spiritualist-medium-speak-to-my-dead-father





> Spiritualists’ National Union



Cant they go on strike? 

Like, permanently


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Cant they go on strike?
> 
> Like, permanently


they wouldn't see that coming


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i regret it is wholly material http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...s-spiritualist-medium-speak-to-my-dead-father


 


frogwoman said:


> Cant they go on strike?
> 
> Like, permanently


 
A spectre is haunting Europe


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 10, 2015)

Read a piece today that was ostensibly an explanation of why Corbyn is doing so well, but was actually an excuse to insult him and use the term 'Teflon Trot' to describe him. Why won't the guardian pay me for writing vacuous drivel in favour of the establishment? Thousands of us could write this shite in our sleep. I don't see why I can't charge for writing about things I'm ignorant of or don't even really care about. It's the unfairness of it that rankles...


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 10, 2015)




----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2015)

a(nother) compendium of tossy Grauniad articles...together with a handy list of just what tossers sit on its Trust

http://www.sodiumhaze.org/2015/07/2...e-daily-mail-so-elect-corbyn-and-ignore-them/


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 10, 2015)

belboid said:


> a(nother) compendium of tossy Grauniad articles...together with a handy list of just what tossers sit on its Trust
> 
> http://www.sodiumhaze.org/2015/07/2...e-daily-mail-so-elect-corbyn-and-ignore-them/



Its been right wing for ages though. Didnt they support the bombing of Belgrade etc?


----------



## J Ed (Aug 10, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Its been right wing for ages though. Didnt they support the bombing of Belgrade etc?



They are like Hillary Clinton - there isn't a war they can stop themselves from supporting


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/issues/more/item/5777-new-report-on-the-henry-jackson-society

New report on the Henry Jackson Society. Will be of interest to some, not read it yet but should be good.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 11, 2015)

My son's tattoo hurt me deeply


----------



## Santino (Aug 11, 2015)

J Ed said:


> My son's tattoo hurt me deeply


2012 called and wants its record-breaking Olympic summer back.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

J Ed said:


> My son's tattoo hurt me deeply


----------



## J Ed (Aug 11, 2015)

Santino said:


> 2012 called and wants its record-breaking Olympic summer back.



Don't care it's amazing, read it


----------



## J Ed (Aug 11, 2015)

> "It's not as if I came home and said I'd got someone pregnant."
> 
> It seems to me, unhinged by shock, that this might have been the better option.
> 
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 11, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 75239


 that is such a dad comment


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

*Sam Wollaston: My worst error of all? Becoming a parent in the first place*
God, where to start? And social services don’t read this, do they? Because I’ve lost my children, forgotten them, forgotten to feed them, dropped them, put the wrong clothes on them, taught them bad words (inadvertently, promise, though it is funny, a cussing kid). And I’ve exploited them, for copy. I’m clearly not meant for this.

But my worst parenting error of all? Well, given the above that would probably have to be becoming one – a parent – in the first place. Procreating.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> *Sam Wollaston: My worst error of all? Becoming a parent in the first place*
> God, where to start? And social services don’t read this, do they? Because I’ve lost my children, forgotten them, forgotten to feed them, dropped them, put the wrong clothes on them, taught them bad words (inadvertently, promise, though it is funny, a cussing kid). And I’ve exploited them, for copy. I’m clearly not meant for this.
> 
> But my worst parenting error of all? Well, given the above that would probably have to be becoming one – a parent – in the first place. Procreating.


if only his parents had thought that.


----------



## captainmission (Aug 11, 2015)

It seems to be the season for guardian writers to public slag off their children 

real:






Spoof:

*I love my son but, wow, babies are boring. How does my wife do it?*
We had poked out our tongues at each other ad nauseam, played with a set of plastic keys, taken copious selfies, had an infinite game of Buckeroo! – and dinnertime was still a million years away


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 11, 2015)

captainmission said:


> It seems to be the season for guardian writers to public slag off their children
> 
> real:
> 
> ...



I hope his wife gets a divorce.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 12, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...owd-funding-breed-red-heifer-third-temple-cow

Just 'activists' eh.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2015)

Lucy Mangan knows fuck all about club culture:
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...der-dancefloor-teenagers-triumph-nerd-culture


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Lucy Mangan knows fuck all about club culture:
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...der-dancefloor-teenagers-triumph-nerd-culture


i don't know what drink she bought for £7.25 in the camden palace in 1983 but around 7 years later a pint was in the region of £3.


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't know what drink she bought for £7.25 in the camden palace in 1983 but around 7 years later a pint was in the region of £3.


hmm, Lucy Mangan was 9 in 1983, so i doubt that was when she had her first nightclub drink. £7.25 sounds plausible for a large G&T by '93,


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> hmm, Lucy Mangan was 9 in 1983, so i doubt that was when she had her first nightclub drink. £7.25 sounds plausible for a large G&T by '93,


i didn't think she looked that auld but in her article the link to the camden palace goes back to a report about madonna playing there in 1983. perhaps she was precocious


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2015)

It was about 8 pounds for a Pink Cally in 93. If she'd had one of those, she wouldn't be writing the article.


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i didn't think she looked that auld but in her article the link to the camden palace goes back to a report about madonna playing there in 1983. *perhaps she was precocious*


i imagine that goes without saying


----------



## killer b (Aug 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> hmm, Lucy Mangan was 9 in 1983, so i doubt that was when she had her first nightclub drink. £7.25 sounds plausible for a large G&T by '93,


It doesn't. I remember buying a double vodka & coke in a similar venue in London 10 years later and it being around that price then (and me being shocked at the price)


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2015)

killer b said:


> It doesn't. I remember buying a double vodka & coke in a similar venue in London 10 years later and it being around that price then (and me being shocked at the price)


Camden Palace was expensive tho, I paid over a fiver for a pint back in 94 or 95


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 12, 2015)

if you're having that shit a time in a nightclub then you need to neck some e or go home misery guts


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 13, 2015)

Some disgusting racism on the guardian comments section about the Tiangjin explosion today. How are these comments let through ffs?


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 13, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> if you're having that shit a time in a nightclub then you need to neck some e or go home misery guts


You go and you stand on your own.
And you leave on  your own.
And you go home and you cry and you want to die.
_Next on Bad Life Decisions_


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> You go and you stand on your own.
> And you leave on  your own.
> And you go home and you cry and you want to die.


morrisey would never have wrote that if they'd invented E's a bit quicker.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 13, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> morrisey would never have wrote that if they'd invented E's a bit quicker.


No, he would still have written it, Es or no Es, because he is a twat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Some disgusting racism on the guardian comments section about the Tiangjin explosion today. How are these comments let through ffs?


let through? they're reached for with avid delight. i would not be surprised if they were written by the moderators to attract page views.


----------



## mauvais (Aug 13, 2015)

They've come out for Cooper. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 13, 2015)

mauvais said:


> They've come out for Cooper. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.



Well tbf I do like her ideas about...well, her policy on...no wait, there was that thing she did when she was in government where she...who am I talking about again? I've forgotten


----------



## mauvais (Aug 13, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well tbf I do like her ideas about...well, her policy on...no wait, there was that thing she did when she was in government where she...who am I talking about again? I've forgotten


Who is this? Where are we? How is Nick Clegg doing in the polls?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 13, 2015)

mauvais said:


> Who is this? Where are we? How is Nick Clegg doing in the polls?



He's been replaced by that other bloke. Whoever the other lib dem is.


----------



## mauvais (Aug 13, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> He's been replaced by that other bloke. Whoever the other lib dem is.


I... is...? How...  Mmm...?

This campaign broadcast was paid for by Yvette Cooper For Labour Something: Putting The "What" In "What Actual Views Do You Have"


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 13, 2015)

mauvais said:


> They've come out for Cooper. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.



Finally had the guts to declare an interest after doing everything in their power to hinder Corbyn, then.

Spineless, disingenuous fauxcalists that they are.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2015)

Bakunin said:


> Finally had the guts to declare an interest after doing everything in their power to hinder Corbyn, then.
> 
> Spineless, disingenuous fauxcalists that they are.


Comedy gold in an editorial devoting 7 full paragraphs to trashing Corbyn...


> Those who espouse an anybody-but-Corbyn line fall prey to the very politics that have alienated so many. *They define themselves wholly negatively, by what they are against*.


There is only one para extolling Cooper's virtues.


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 13, 2015)

brogdale said:


> There is only one para extolling Cooper's virtues.



I'm surprised they managed that many.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2015)

Bakunin said:


> I'm surprised they managed that many.


Apart from the stuff about her being a woman, this is the entire endorsement...


> Yvette Cooper is more steadfast, consistently challenging George Osborne on economic terrain. She refuses to concede the nonsense that Labour overspending caused the crash. She would disconcert a prime minister whose clumsy and occasionally patronising tone towards women has proved a vulnerability.


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 13, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Apart from the stuff about her being a woman, this is the entire endorsement...
> ​



If that's all they can come up with then her fate is (hopefully) sealed.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 13, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Apart from the stuff about her being a woman, this is the entire endorsement...
> ​


 TBF one-third of "the entire endorsement" you've quoted there is, in essence, 'Cameron wouldn't hit a lady'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2015)

mauvais said:


> They've come out for Cooper. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.


Who could have imagined a rag specialising in the patronising tone of a middle class deputy head would favour a....


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> TBF one-third of "the entire endorsement" you've quoted there is, in essence, 'Cameron wouldn't hit a lady'.


Yeah, 24 words really...and not very convincing ones, at that.


----------



## killer b (Aug 13, 2015)

I liked their suggestion that Kendall's problem is inexperience.


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 13, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yeah, 24 words really...and not very convincing ones, at that.



About as convincing as Richard Nixon claiming there could be no whitewash at the White House.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2015)

killer b said:


> I liked their suggestion that Kendall's problem is inexperience.


it must be fairly galling to have considered yourself the underdog and the other bloke the token sop to labour left, only to be appraised as to how the ground has shifted so badly it is now YOU who is the joke candidate


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> It was about 8 pounds for a Pink Cally in 93. If she'd had one of those, she wouldn't be writing the article.


never had you down as a pink cally man


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> TBF one-third of "the entire endorsement" you've quoted there is, in essence, 'Cameron wouldn't hit a lady'.


no, it is 'cameron would hit a lady but it wouldn't play well'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 15, 2015)

killer b said:


> I liked their suggestion that Kendall's problem is inexperience.



I like the suggestion that she only has one problem.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 15, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> never had you down as a pink cally man


Practically lived on them for 3 years 94-96.


----------



## YouSir (Aug 15, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I like the suggestion that she only has one problem.



If you're having election problems I feel bad for ya son, I got 99 problems but bein' Kendall ain't one.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 19, 2015)

Don’t bang on to me about ethical food if you still keep a stash of very unfairly traded weed



> We are, it seems, living in the age of the wonky moral compass: of middle-class couples who swear by their weekly organic veg box, and yet relax after dinner with a line of something produced by impoverished, subjugated Bolivian peasants.



What a hellish world Guardian columnists live in


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Don’t bang on to me about ethical food if you still keep a stash of very unfairly traded weed
> 
> 
> 
> What a hellish world Guardian columnists live in



a) nobody 'relaxes' with coke

b)the vast majority of weed in this country is thought to be homegrown, or at least 'domestically grown'. The people exploited in that trade have been vietnamese people who come here and tend the crops in some anonymous victorian terrace. Theres simply not enough profit in import and since the wars in the middle east nobody gets decent hash through in export weights anymore

Bolivia isn't known for its trade in the herb but rather the rich-mans bloodied nose powder.

also its doing that arch my-first-teenage-diary tone I despise. It should have died with adrian mole


----------



## LDC (Aug 19, 2015)

I fucking hate _The Guardian's_ moral consumer choice shit. More's the pity it's also really prevalent in the radical political left.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 19, 2015)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I fucking hate _The Guardian's_ moral consumer choice shit. More's the pity it's also really prevalent in the radical political left.



Product of neoliberal thinking - individual consumerist solutions to problems that can only be solved collectively


----------



## Lefty92 (Aug 19, 2015)

I am disappointed with the Guardian's choice to back Cooper. I find think she lacks charisma and I don't find her 'vision' very inspiring. Yes, expanding Sure Start Centres is admirable, but what else does Cooper offer? I guess I shouldn't be surprised though, that a paper which sees itself as a bastion for liberal views and political correctness should want a woman leader.


----------



## Santino (Aug 19, 2015)

Lefty92 said:


> I am disappointed with the Guardian's choice to back Cooper. I find think she lacks charisma and I don't find her 'vision' very inspiring. Yes, expanding Sure Start Centres is admirable, but what else does Cooper offer? I guess I shouldn't be surprised though, that a paper which sees itself as a bastion for liberal views and political correctness should want a woman leader.


She's not very left wing.


----------



## killer b (Aug 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> b)the vast majority of weed in this country is thought to be homegrown, or at least 'domestically grown'. The people exploited in that trade have been vietnamese people who come here and tend the crops in some anonymous victorian terrace. Theres simply not enough profit in import and since the wars in the middle east nobody gets decent hash through in export weights anymore
> 
> Bolivia isn't known for its trade in the herb but rather the rich-mans bloodied nose powder.


I was about to lay into someone on Facebook with the same line, then I read the article and realised he was quoting a yank, talking about the yank drug trade.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2015)

killer b said:


> I was about to lay into someone on Facebook with the same line, then I read the article and realised he was quoting a yank, talking about the yank drug trade.


looks like I went in to hard, to strong before reading deeper then lol. Autorage again


----------



## Lefty92 (Aug 19, 2015)

Santino said:


> She's not very left wing.


 She's not left-wing, a centre-ground candidate at best. Better than Kendall I guess, who may as well be putting in an audition ready for a Tory leadership bid when Cameron steps down. I still maintain that the centre-left spot Burnham occupies is where the party need to be.


----------



## jd79 (Aug 19, 2015)

Anyone checked out Rafael Behr's piece in the Guardian about 'Echochambers'. It only takes 7 paragraphs to get to Jeremy Corbyn. Still fair play to the SNP they get a mention in the 6 paragraph. So well done them.


----------



## killer b (Aug 19, 2015)

Ha, yeah I read that this morning. So shit.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> looks like I went in to hard, to strong before reading deeper then lol



You worked that out by yourself, right?


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 19, 2015)




----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 26, 2015)

Eh, no Guardian, it wasn't a "fighter jet" that was uncovered by the drought that has lowered the level of the Vistula:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...covered-as-rivers-run-dry?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 26, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Eh, no Guardian, it wasn't a "fighter jet" that was uncovered by the drought that has lowered the level of the Vistula:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...covered-as-rivers-run-dry?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


nor was it a jet fighter


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 26, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> nor was it a jet fighter


Nor even an example of that misbegotten technological dead end, the motorjet:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorjet


----------



## Belushi (Aug 28, 2015)

Their 10 best revolutionaries

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/...aries-che-guevara-mahatma-gandhi-leon-trotsky


----------



## brogdale (Aug 28, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Their 10 best revolutionaries
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/culture/...aries-che-guevara-mahatma-gandhi-leon-trotsky


La Penny omitted?


----------



## seventh bullet (Aug 29, 2015)

Cmmbes Barry and Paul aren't there.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 31, 2015)

not sure I've read much Hadley Freeman in the Graun before, but pretty sure there hasnt been much politics from her previously ( unless remembering wrong ) - but is now very much on the Graun vs Corbyn firm, spouting "anti Blairites are as boring as Thatcherites' and ' if you criticise Corbyn, you're a red Tory 'type guff .

The Grauns full of privately educated / Oxbridge centre leftists like Freeman, fair enough, that's their thing, but the arrogance / apparent lack of self awareness, ie : that their immensely privileged position in life might just be influencing their attitude to Corbyn and the movement building around him, is still a bit hard to take / nauseating.


----------



## belboid (Aug 31, 2015)

She had a truly awful piece defending Israeli apartheid last year. And then another whining about how unfair it was that she got criticised for it.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 31, 2015)

belboid said:


> She had a truly awful piece defending Israeli apartheid last year. And then another whining about how unfair it was that she got criticised for it.



yep. just found it / now remember that and the Freeland / Galloway / QT kerfuffle . She's dismal .


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2015)

been at the groan for as long as I can remember. Didn't come across as quite such a shithouse london liberal back in the day. Maybe the office culture moulds you into another pollybot


----------



## cantsin (Aug 31, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> been at the groan for as long as I can remember. Didn't come across as quite such a shithouse london liberal back in the day. Maybe the office culture moulds you into another pollybot



yep, always had her down as purely fashion etc. which despite my instinctively immaculate / cutting edge look ( sort of shabby chic, minus the chic )  was never my bag


----------



## Belushi (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm not a fan of Terry Pratchet but have actually read some of his work unlike the ludicrous Jonathan Jones Get real. Terry Pratchett is not a literary genius


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I'm not a fan of Terry Pratchet but have actually some of his work unlike the ludicrous Jonathan Jones Get real. Terry Pratchett is not a literary genius



It does not matter to me if Terry Pratchett’s final novel is a worthy epitaph or not, or if he wanted it to be pulped by a steamroller. I have never read a single one of his books and I never plan to. Life’s too short.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2015)

he can stuff his bukowski up his arse, blatant troll. TP wrote with heart and wit, did it always work? no. Was it ever high art (whatever that means) no. But when he nailed it he nailed it.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2015)

> A middlebrow cult of the popular is holding literature to ransom.



Thats an appaling sentence. Who is this, a thinking man's Katie Hopkins


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Thats an appaling sentence. Who is this, a thinking man's Katie Hopkins


I first encountered the term 'middlebrow' when reading 'Keep The Aspidistras Flying' by george orwell. A not-at-all semi biographical work about a middle class circulation library tender and his dilemna between what was art and what was prole fodder. It's a really snobbish word to use, it just means 'I'm better than that I read salman rushdie'. Or dead russians or whatever. The cheek of someone talking about mediocrity while being published in one of britains crappest news sites is amazing.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 1, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I'm not a fan of Terry Pratchet but have actually some of his work unlike the ludicrous Jonathan Jones Get real. Terry Pratchett is not a literary genius


He such an iconoclast.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> 'I'm better than that I read salman rushdie'.


i've always thought the fatwa should have been based round satanick verses being turgid tripe than any alleged blasphemy


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2015)

Cracks me up than when he was knighted (I wouldn't accept it, but TP never claimed to be a revo or anything) he went and forged his own sword. From the raw ore to the hammering of the blade, done the lot himself. Knights are allowed to wear a sword in public you see. Such a massive massive geeky bell.

e2a apparently not- he stashed it somewhere cos you aren't allowed to carry a blade in public


----------



## Santino (Sep 1, 2015)

Pratchett didn't write literature, he was much better than that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2015)

if you ever want an early TP novel to see what he was like when he thought he had to write high fantasy in the high fantasy mould try Carpet People. Its not very good though, so just a curiosity.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i've always thought the fatwa should have been based round satanick verses being turgid tripe than any alleged blasphemy


never really liked that one myself but 'Moors Last Sigh' and 'Shame' were good reads. 'Ground Beneath Her Feet' also. Magic(k) realism never really was my bag though baby


----------



## Santino (Sep 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> if you ever want an early TP novel to see what he was like when he thought he had to write high fantasy in the high fantasy mould try Carpet People. Its not very good though, so just a curiosity.


I think there are two versions of that floating around. I read the 'revised' version where I think he took out a lot of the high fantasy nonsense about kings.


----------



## belboid (Sep 1, 2015)

Satanic Verses is great.  Not as good as Midnight's Children, but still a cracking read. He hasn't written anything particularly good this millenium, tho


----------



## scifisam (Sep 1, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't know what drink she bought for £7.25 in the camden palace in 1983 but around 7 years later a pint was in the region of £3.



Where does it say 1983? She only says years ago. 

The article underneath with her complaining about doctors refusing to give actual advice rings true for me, although I doubt it's confined to the NHS.



Belushi said:


> I'm not a fan of Terry Pratchet but have actually read some of his work unlike the ludicrous Jonathan Jones Get real. Terry Pratchett is not a literary genius



It's basically a messageboard post disguised as journalism. A lot of the Guardian is, but this is particularly noticeable. I mean, why would anyone think that someone who hasn't read anything by a writer would be a good person to write about said writer's works? 

Esp. someone who thinks Austen is proper lit compared to Pratchett when really they're pretty similar and the authors would probably have got on with each other in a quiet way, shared eyerolls and patient sighs across a room style.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 1, 2015)

scifisam said:


> Where does it say 1983? She only says years ago.


if you had read the thread (and indeed her article) you would have seen that the link in her article refers to a 1983 appearance by madonna at the camden palace.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 1, 2015)

scifisam said:


> Where does it say 1983? She only says years ago.


----------



## Bakunin (Sep 1, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Their 10 best revolutionaries
> 
> The 10 best revolutionaries



That needs an appropriate soundtrack:


----------



## scifisam (Sep 1, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if you had read the thread (and indeed her article) you would have seen that the link in her article refers to a 1983 appearance by madonna at the camden palace.



But she doesn't say that she was there at the time. Someone else - Lucy Mangan is very unlikely to be the one putting links into her articles - put in a weird clickable link to a previous article that happened to mention the same venue, or it came up because she typed in the venue name, that's all. And it's obvious that she wasn't going out to anywhere but the park or a kid's playcentre in 1983.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 1, 2015)

Theres yet more racism in the guardian comment section on a story about how many refugees germany is taking. Wtf is wrong with these people?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 1, 2015)

dp


----------



## J Ed (Sep 1, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Theres yet more racism in the guardian comment section on a story about how many refugees germany is taking. Wtf is wrong with these people?



Anywhere this is being discussed there are a lot of racist comments.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 1, 2015)

scifisam said:


> But she doesn't say that she was there at the time. Someone else - Lucy Mangan is very unlikely to be the one putting links into her articles - put in a weird clickable link to a previous article that happened to mention the same venue, or it came up because she typed in the venue name, that's all. And it's obvious that she wasn't going out to anywhere but the park or a kid's playcentre in 1983.


i am pleased you have such an eye for detail, but disappointed that you hadn't noticed that all this was discussed and concluded well over a fortnight ago.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 1, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i am pleased you have such an eye for detail, but disappointed that you hadn't noticed that all this was discussed and concluded well over a fortnight ago.



Then why were you still arguing with me about it today?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 1, 2015)

scifisam said:


> Then why were you still arguing with me about it today?


i wasn't arguing about it, you asked where the 1983 came from and i told you.

next.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 1, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i wasn't arguing about it, you asked where the 1983 came from and i told you.
> 
> next.



But you'd been arguing that...

Oh, fuck it. It's you. Not worth it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 1, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Theres yet more racism in the guardian comment section on a story about how many refugees germany is taking. Wtf is wrong with these people?



Middle class liberalism - vacant politics for hypocrites and dim-bulbs.


----------



## Flavour (Sep 2, 2015)

Though I believe that the traditional guardian buying physical newspaper reader is still somewhat to the left at least of a times reader, unfortunately, in this clickbait five seconds of snap chat fame world, the opinions of the right wing masses who troll the guardian comments seem to have convinced the guardian "journalists" to pander to their perceived new audience, which is only pushing more of the traditional, paper buying, left-of-center readership from to turn away from the paper, and so the vicious and deliberate attack by the right wing CIF commenters can only be seen as a complete success. Fickle oxbridge twats the lot of em anyway, fucking Murdoch owned Vice's journalists are more credible and relevant, and ain't that a shame.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2015)




----------



## Favelado (Sep 5, 2015)

Remember that fake Comment is Free thing the other week? This surely beats it.

Wasps may have stung me in the testicles – but I love them anyway | Jules Howard


----------



## Libertad (Sep 5, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Remember that fake Comment is Free thing the other week? This surely beats it.
> 
> Wasps may have stung me in the testicles – but I love them anyway | Jules Howard



Soda cans, popsicles, candy wrappers? An American no doubt and as such unqualified to trouble to himself with our jaspers.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 5, 2015)

Libertad said:


> Soda cans, popsicles, candy wrappers? An American no doubt and as such unqualified to trouble to himself with our jaspers.



His Twitter is currently commenting on the death of British spellings. Wonder why that's happening Jules?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 5, 2015)

He's called Jules for a start


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 5, 2015)

J Ed said:


> He's called Jules for a start


So what? Lots of women and Frenchmen go by the name Jules.


----------



## Belushi (Sep 6, 2015)

(((Labour moderates)))

Labour’s moderates start their long dark night of the soul | Andrew Rawnsley


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2015)

Thats the second article I've seen now, there was one on the main page yesterday, calling them 'corybnistas' lol

The one yesterday was suggesting that la resistance lives on 


> these are traumatic times for Labour MPs who have spent a lifetime opposing the hard left. One shadow minister said he had written his resignation letter and said he planned to “act like a Lib Dem for the next five years”.
> 
> “I will stay in my constituency, make myself useful, pick up dog shit and stay away from Westminster. What is the point of going there?” he said.


----------



## Belushi (Sep 6, 2015)

My new favourite Guardian fuckwit Jonathan Jones now wants to demolish a brand new building (one which like most Londoners I dislike)

Should Britain’s ‘worst building’ be demolished?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Thats the second article I've seen now, there was one on the main page yesterday, calling them 'corybnistas' lol
> 
> The one yesterday was suggesting that la resistance lives on



From the first article



> All very reasonable, it might seem. “But there is an ulterior motive,” said Luke Akehurst, a Labour councillor and former NEC member. *“The analogy an MP gave me was that these people are moving through the party like Isis in their jeeps in Iraq. They need to push on, take over, before they lose the momentum."*



Wow.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> From the first article
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.


I saw that last night and was tempted to post it


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> From the first article
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.



Basically that guy is a total dickhead


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 6, 2015)

Obviously the Blaireviks and their habit of blowing up any traditional symbols of labourism are not to be referred to as Taliban-like, though.


----------



## treelover (Sep 6, 2015)

Cheering German crowds greet refugees after long trek from Budapest to Munich


Nothing here on  the way the Guardian is distorting some of the stories around the refugee crisis, such as an article which has the headline "Cheering German crowds greet refugees after long trek from Budapest to Munich"

when later in the article it says "On Saturday night at Munich’s main station, dozens of Germans lined up behind police barriers to clap, cheer and distribute sweets to welcome refugees to their new home. A sophisticated official operation provided food and transport to temporary lodging."

The Guardian can by means call for support for the refugees, but shouldn't they report things as they are, not as how they would like them to be.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> From the first article
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.



It's Luke Akehurst. He's a pathological muppet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 6, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Basically that guy is a total dickhead



That's unfair to dickheads.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 6, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's Luke Akehurst. He's a pathological muppet.



He looks like the guy Eric Pickles ate.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> From the first article
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.


the radio said today that labour have purged 4000 of the fifth columnists. If corbyn loses within that margin there will be frowns a plenty.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the radio said today that labour have purged 4000 of the fifth columnists. If corbyn loses within that margin there will be frowns a plenty.


Imagine also the contortions if he were to _win_ within that margin


----------



## sihhi (Sep 8, 2015)

This nonsense with garbage writer-in-chief P Hitchens 



Pickman's model said:


> the trad way into journalism was to pay your dues on a local rag. this is creating a self-selecting elite with scant knoeledge of writing or genuine investihative journalism but knowing how to be a hack, and a patroniding bigoted grauniad hack at that



Does anyone have up-to-date figures on local newspaper closures (Press Gazette link) perhaps Rob Ray


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 10, 2015)

Sorry sihhi I don't have those, would be interested to see them though. The NUJ has a roll call of closures and job cuts from July 2014-15 which makes depressing reading.

On a different note I see the Guardian's doing well on its front page today, just under a story suggesting the Corbyn surge is Trotskyism in action there's one reporting a "record" number of terror arrests in the last year. Slightly further down however they note the number of people charged is 118 - which by my maths is slightly less than in 2014.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 10, 2015)

Let Putin be your fitness inspiration hero


----------



## andysays (Sep 10, 2015)

That "Push Your Borders" one is amusing


----------



## Belushi (Sep 13, 2015)

A very confused article from Carole Cadwalladr, in which she appears to pass through Tottenham in a taxi

Paris? Give me diverse London any day | Carole Cadwalladr


----------



## mauvais (Sep 13, 2015)

This is one of the worst articles I've ever read. A veiled call for tokenism that provides easy ammo to anyone who wants to deride feminism. Astoundingly stupid, and all of the 1500 comments say so.

As Jeremy Corbyn was anointed leader, not one female voice was heard

And then this. The headline alone is a shambles.

Haunted Corbyn stares into abyss of triumph


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Sep 13, 2015)

There's also another comment piece, linked to that one, saying exactly the same thing.

The New Labour brigade at the Guardian need some way to undermine the legitimacy of Corbyn's victory, I suppose.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2015)

Fun to be had:
What do you want to ask David Cameron?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 13, 2015)

mauvais said:


> The headline alone is a shambles.



*ABYSS OF TRIUMPH *sounds like it could be a relatively watchable straight-to-DVD low budget horror


----------



## mauvais (Sep 13, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> *ABYSS OF TRIUMPH *sounds like it could be a relatively watchable straight-to-DVD low budget horror


It also sounds like something from _On The Hour._

Haunted Corbyn stares into abyss of triumph - where now for man raised by puffins?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 13, 2015)

I'm pretty sure Uwe Boll has thrown his toys out the pram over a failed Kickstarter for *ABYSS OF TRIUMPH*


----------



## mauvais (Sep 13, 2015)

Belushi said:


> A very confused article from Carole Cadwalladr, in which she appears to pass through Tottenham in a taxi
> 
> Paris? Give me diverse London any day | Carole Cadwalladr


No, through Paris in a taxi, leaving her well qualified to comment on the city in its entirety.

Rumours suggest that this man may have been involved:


----------



## Belushi (Sep 13, 2015)

> There probably is racism in Tottenham.



Yeah the three days of rioting that were sparked in 2011 after the met executed a young black man in the street are a clue that there probably is.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 13, 2015)

Jeremy Corbyn versus the media - will he take on Murdoch?



> ...The Guardian and the Independent are likely to offer impartial coverage...



Just lol. They really do seem to think we are all stupid


----------



## emanymton (Sep 14, 2015)

> Even if the public are uninterested in Jeremy Corbyn’s attitude towards “the media”, then journalists certainly are.


Dripping with arrogance from the very first sentence.
We're the journalists we get to decide what is important, not the public.


----------



## tufty79 (Sep 14, 2015)

Tee hee - I have given them a one star snippy Facebook review,along with a request for a public apology for their behaviour towards me in 2013


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2015)

mauvais said:


> Haunted Corbyn stares into abyss of triumph



That's got to be a Daily Mash pisstake surely?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2015)

guardian sour grapes. I'm suprised we haven't had michael shite out the doors yet, taking his belt off


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 14, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Jeremy Corbyn versus the media - will he take on Murdoch?
> 
> 
> 
> Just lol. They really do seem to think we are all stupid



The Guardian is likely to offer impartial coverage of Satan-worshipping, baby-eating lunatic Jeremy Corbyn as he continues his rampage of destruction.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 15, 2015)

How long before Haunted Corbyn gets added to the list of newly banned street drugs?


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 15, 2015)

So as a temporary solution to the endless vacant drivel/anti-left propaganda the guardian has been publishing, I've started reading the Independent as my main source of UK news. I know what you're thinking - who the hell reads the Independent? I've always wondered the same thing. Turns out the answer is: people who can't bear how shit the other papers are. I mean the Independent is relentlessly middle of the road and mediocre, but at least it doesn't read like it was written by a bunch of spoilt Oxbridge brats high on coke and the feeling of their own superiority. I just can't do the Guardian any more, for my peace of mind and my faith in humanity.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 15, 2015)

Secular, Republican newspaper apparently horrified that leader of the Labour Party demonstrably shares their views.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 15, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> How long before Haunted Corbyn gets added to the list of newly banned street drugs?


Haunted Corbyn - on me it has no effect.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 15, 2015)

Brainaddict said:


> So as a temporary solution to the endless vacant drivel/anti-left propaganda the guardian has been publishing, I've started reading the Independent as my main source of UK news. I know what you're thinking - who the hell reads the Independent? I've always wondered the same thing. Turns out the answer is: people who can't bear how shit the other papers are. I mean the Independent is relentlessly middle of the road and mediocre, but at least it doesn't read like it was written by a bunch of spoilt Oxbridge brats high on coke and the feeling of their own superiority. I just can't do the Guardian any more, for my peace of mind and my faith in humanity.


I had occasion to read the Morning Star last week, and it had definitely improved compared to the last time I saw it. Colour pictures, for example.


----------



## tufty79 (Sep 16, 2015)

tufty79 said:


> Tee hee - I have given them a one star snippy Facebook review,along with a request for a public apology for their behaviour towards me in 2013


Spoke to the guardian readers enquiries? about the shit they pulled on me in 2013. The woman i spoke to has no record of me ever having contacted them. Will be forwarding the email conversations from two years back with four of their journalists and head of media   

she was also all 'why have you waited two years to address this' and got slightly less snotty when i explained i attempted suicide after the stuff they and hippies did, had a breakdown and have only just started feeling strong enough to assert myself and try and resolve the various issues that broke me. Interesting times


----------



## Belushi (Sep 23, 2015)

Hmm, an article about rising rents in Berlin which manages to avoid making the connection to the middle class Brits it interviews who've moved there for the cheap rents

The housing trap: how can Berlin avoid following in London's pricey footsteps?


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 23, 2015)

Tongue still firmly wedged between the cheeks of the spineless yellow dodo's 





> Tim Farron’s first leader’s speech to his party conference was a resounding success in the Bournemouth conference hall.


----------



## killer b (Sep 23, 2015)

They _need_ a lib dem revival now they've totally shat the bed over Corbyn.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 25, 2015)

I feel this is worth preserving for posterity

I’m like, oh not the pig FFS, bloody Boris | Mrs Cameron’s diary




> Well LFW started off majorly divine as in harnesses are having the biggest moment? Everybody’s like literally omigod, WANT, I’m like, IKR, God why should horses have all the fun, wait till I tell Dave! Then people are looking at me weirdly #traysawk I’m like, what, WHAT they’re all like, oh nothing #liars. So the mobile goes, Dave’s like ahem Craig was wondering, have you got something amazerama for the frow tomoz, only there is like, this *quite* stupid story? I’m like, oh not the pig FFS, bloody Boris, Dave’s like, no, worse. I’m like, God, not that hunt, I TOLD you – omigod not the roasting one from school? He’s like, babes, are you sitting down, I’m like, wait, not *falls insensible to the floor* – DELINGPOLE – are you sure?
> 
> He’s like, 100% babes, us in his room, on holiday, bit of climate change denial, some lefty columnist bantz – I’m like, bloody bloody Boris, are there pictures? Dave’s like, um. I’m like, God, quiet, let me think, we can *reputational damage face* fix this, he’s like, yay with a drone amiright, genius babes, let me call the army. I’m like, no, think, THINK *lightbulb face* that time we dumped Rebekah? He’s like, & Coulson & Clarkson & the Murdochs? I’m like correct, barely know the guy, utter nonsense, won’t dignify with a response. Now run & hide.
> 
> ...


----------



## treelover (Sep 27, 2015)

> Red neoliberals: How Corbyn’s victory unmasked Britain’s Guardian
> 
> Counterpunch – 21 September 2015
> 
> ...



has anyone posted this yet?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 27, 2015)

treelover said:


> has anyone posted this yet?


Yes.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2015)

How the hijab – and H&M – are reshaping mainstream British culture | Remona Aly

Unsurprisingly vast swathes of comments are being deleted from this article


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 29, 2015)

£255 to eat in the Fat Duck? That’s indefensible

Oh no! The Fat Duck has put up its prices from the reasonable and accessible mark of £150 to £255, which is clearly not on.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 29, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> £255 to eat in the Fat Duck? That’s indefensible
> 
> Oh no! The Fat Duck has put up its prices from the reasonable and accessible mark of £150 to £255, which is clearly not on.


 
  Boots meal deal again for lunch today, then...


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> £255 to eat in the Fat Duck? That’s indefensible
> 
> Oh no! The Fat Duck has put up its prices from the reasonable and accessible mark of £150 to £255, which is clearly not on.


I was a bit surprised to discover that I thought that one was alright, actually.  Certainly when compared to It’s more than cereal, it’s a cereal experience.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 29, 2015)

Now that we on this thread all agree that the Guardian is going down the pan can we finally pull the flush on that redundant news organ and forget all about it.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 29, 2015)

Haven't read all 146 pages of this thread but yeah, I provide far too many of the clicks for the Grauniad website - any other suggestions of better places to go for news? Should it now be from various sources and amalgamated on something like Flipboard?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2015)

pinkychukkles said:


> Haven't read all 146 pages of this thread but yeah, I provide far too many of the clicks for the Grauniad website - any other suggestions of better places to go for news? Should it now be from various sources and amalgamated on something like Flipboard?


morning star


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 29, 2015)

pinkychukkles said:


> Haven't read all 146 pages of this thread but yeah, I provide far too many of the clicks for the Grauniad website - any other suggestions of better places to go for news? Should it now be from various sources and amalgamated on something like Flipboard?



Indie and Morning Star.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2015)

The indie hasn't stopped being awful all of a sudden has it?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 29, 2015)

killer b said:


> The indie hasn't stopped being awful all of a sudden has it?



It can be rather dull tbf. But it's not the Gruniad.


----------



## Santino (Sep 29, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> It can be rather dull tbf. But it's not the Gruniad.


 Vote Liberal Democrat, for a fairer coalition government.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> Vote Liberal Democrat, for a fairer coalition government.



Point taken


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2015)

Right, fuck it, may as well stop reading CiF, way to moderated, can't criticise or take the piss out of any of the articles.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> £255 to eat in the Fat Duck? That’s indefensible
> 
> Oh no! The Fat Duck has put up its prices from the reasonable and accessible mark of £150 to £255, which is clearly not on.



This is the one thing that's really been fucking my life up lately. The price of getting salmonella in a room full of pompous twats.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 29, 2015)

Michael White is a fucking  idiot


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 29, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Michael White is a fucking  idiot




Now now, you forgot "arrogant, preening, Blair-loving..."


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 30, 2015)

From the Guardian's report of Corbyn's conference speech:




			
				Guardian said:
			
		

> Corbyn appeared on stage wearing a tie and brown jacket, and repeatedly told the British people that they could challenge and improve society.



That one sentence seems to sum up their socio-political standpoint quite neatly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 30, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> Indie and Morning Star.


and workers girder


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> and workers girder


You don't read the _Girder_; the _Girder _reads you


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2015)

Oh FFS...


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 30, 2015)




----------



## J Ed (Oct 1, 2015)

Hillary Clinton as a lifestyle brand? Don't roll your eyes too soon | Jessica Valenti


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 1, 2015)

Crisis, what housing crisis? We just need fresh thinking | Simon Jenkins

Oh dear... clickbait, some highlights



> *1* That there is a housing “crisis”. There is none. Too many people cannot find the house they want in London and the south-east, which is where most politicians and commentators live. This is inevitable where an economy is booming. Average prices in London may be £500,000, but in the north-west and north-east of England they are £150,000. You can get a decent home in Salford for £65,000.





> *8* That people have a “right” to live where they or their parents lived before. Localities benefit from stable populations, but conferring and bequeathing such a right to discriminatory subsidy is in no book of rights.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Oh FFS...


they can't get anything right. Its 'semi retired lecturer' not 'retired postman'


----------



## J Ed (Oct 1, 2015)

I doubt it's just clickbait, I'm sure it is what he actually believes because he is that sort of scum.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 1, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I doubt it's just clickbait, I'm sure it is what he actually believes because he is that sort of scum.



The twat used to use his column in the Standard to throw his toys out of the pram about any kind of change or anything that slightly inconvenienced his comfortable life in South Ken.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Oh FFS...



I wish the subs had been brave enough to headline it 'How to look like you used to read the Guardian, years ago'


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 1, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> I wish the subs had been brave enough to headline it 'How to look like you used to read the Guardian, years ago'



It's basically the 'Guardian Reader' stereotype down to a T isn't it. 

They seem to be working hard at getting rid of their readers though...


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 1, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's basically the 'Guardian Reader' stereotype down to a T isn't it.
> 
> They seem to be working hard at getting rid of their readers though...



That stereotype certainly fit the Guardian reader of the 1980s, and it's still held by non-readers of the paper, but in reality these days I think they're aiming it more at people like Samantha Cameron.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2015)

my one time poetry lecturer who had an occaisonal piece in the educational supplement (do they still bother with that?) regarding teaching in jail had the look down fucking pat. crap jacket, open neck tieless shirt, cords, brown shoes. Even the shit motor and labour left/liberalish politics. Theres a factory somewhere...


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> my one time poetry lecturer who had an occaisonal piece in the educational supplement (do they still bother with that?) regarding teaching in jail had the look down fucking pat. crap jacket, open neck tieless shirt, cords, brown shoes. Even the shit motor and labour left/liberalish politics. Theres a factory somewhere...



I bet he had a 'nuclear power - no thanks!' sticker in his porch window.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 1, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> I bet he had a 'nuclear power - no thanks!' sticker in his porch window.



On the back of a 2CV.  In German.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 1, 2015)

Yeah, who'd dress like that nowadays? 

***checks to make sure laptop camera light is off**


----------



## killer b (Oct 1, 2015)

This little beaut.

Nicky Morgan considers standing for Tory leader when Cameron quits


----------



## killer b (Oct 1, 2015)

There's some interesting figure there though, which underline how shallow the tory talent pond is - Javid as second favourite to succeed Cameron is eyebrow-raising. _Javid_ ffs.


----------



## killer b (Oct 1, 2015)

Actually, that's just among tory activists, but the odds list is has some real lightweights - Liz Truss at number 8. Fucking hell.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Oct 1, 2015)

The Guardian said:


> You can get a decent home in Salford for £65,000.



Just £65,000 eh?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Oct 1, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Just £65,000 eh?



Actually, I misread that post. I thought the Guardian writer was saying you could get a house in Salford on a salary of 'just' £65,000. Which is still a statement I can believe a Guardian columnist might come out with.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> Actually, that's just among tory activists, but the odds list is has some real lightweights - Liz Truss at number 8. Fucking hell.



Pork Markets motherfucker


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 1, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Actually, I misread that post. I thought the Guardian writer was saying you could get a house in Salford on a salary of 'just' £65,000. Which is still a statement I can believe a Guardian columnist might come out with.



I think this is the piece you mean, not the Indie one you've linked which is purely the ONS data:
Crisis, what housing crisis? We just need fresh thinking | Simon Jenkins

God I hate Simon Jenkins.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Oct 1, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> I think this is the piece you mean, not the Indie one you've quoted:
> Crisis, what housing crisis? We just need fresh thinking | Simon Jenkins



It seems I managed to fuck up my post in every way possible then. I should really just give up on this internet thing.


----------



## killer b (Oct 1, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> I think this is the piece you mean, not the Indie one you've linked which is purely the ONS data:
> Crisis, what housing crisis? We just need fresh thinking | Simon Jenkins
> 
> God I hate Simon Jenkins.


I'm wondering if I've got it wrong about trident now.  

Jeremy Corbyn’s straight talking on Trident should be applauded | Simon Jenkins


----------



## J Ed (Oct 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> I'm wondering if I've got it wrong about trident now.
> 
> Jeremy Corbyn’s straight talking on Trident should be applauded | Simon Jenkins



I thought the same!


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> I'm wondering if I've got it wrong about trident now.
> 
> Jeremy Corbyn’s straight talking on Trident should be applauded | Simon Jenkins


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> I'm wondering if I've got it wrong about trident now.
> 
> Jeremy Corbyn’s straight talking on Trident should be applauded | Simon Jenkins



Corbyn’s Christ-like position may have nuked his chances of becoming PM | Polly Toynbee


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 1, 2015)

I definitely know I hate Toynbee.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 1, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Corbyn’s Christ-like position may have nuked his chances of becoming PM | Polly Toynbee



This Christ-like thing is a creation of the right-wing/liberal media, I have not heard it reference anywhere else, they really are just talking to themselves within their own world.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 1, 2015)

Is Christ a bad guy now?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 1, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Is Christ a bad guy now?



Terrible position on nuclear weapons, really doesn't do well in focus groups


----------



## Celyn (Oct 1, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Is Christ a bad guy now?



He stole someone's donkey once.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 1, 2015)

Celyn said:


> He stole someone's donkey once.


Was he not also involved in some alleged direct action/street protest in the temple?


----------



## Celyn (Oct 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Was he not also involved in some alleged direct action/street protest in the temple?



Oh yes, forgot that one. Chucking the capitalist moneychangers out.  

What were his views on breakfast cereal, does anyone know?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 1, 2015)

Celyn said:


> Oh yes, forgot that one. Chucking the capitalist moneychangers out.
> 
> What were his views on breakfast cereal, does anyone know?


Beard....clue?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 1, 2015)

Celyn said:


> Oh yes, forgot that one. Chucking the capitalist moneychangers out.


Carry on like that and you'll have Dwyer in here!


----------



## Celyn (Oct 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Beard....clue?



I'm sure Jesus's beard wasn't quite the "see my trendy beard" sort, though, that is if the pictures I dimly recall from Sunday School can be trusted. 

Then then, Sunday School also thought Jesus wanted me for a sunbeam, so they might have been just a tiny wee bit barking mad and deluded.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 1, 2015)

Celyn said:


> I'm sure Jesus's beard wasn't quite the "see my trendy beard" sort, though, that is if the pictures I dimly recall from Sunday School can be trusted.
> 
> Then then, Sunday School also thought Jesus wanted me for a sunbeam, so they might have been just a tiny wee bit barking mad and deluded.


----------



## Celyn (Oct 1, 2015)

My brother once allowed some Mormons into my flat (when I was out) and they were adamant that Jesus didn't do the water into wine thing because there was no such thing as wine in Biblical times.     They must have been even crazier missionary types than usual.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Oct 2, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Was he not also involved in some alleged direct action/street protest in the temple?



He invited all the small children to come sit next to him.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 2, 2015)

killer b said:


> I'm wondering if I've got it wrong about trident now.
> 
> Jeremy Corbyn’s straight talking on Trident should be applauded | Simon Jenkins



My thoughts exactly on reading it. In fact, perhaps it's a double bluff - he knows we all think he's full of shit, so he has to say the opposite of what he actually wants us to believe.


----------



## Bakunin (Oct 2, 2015)

Just when the Guardian couldn't have sunk any lower...

Iain Duncan Smith: ‘It is too easy to go out there and emote’


----------



## J Ed (Oct 2, 2015)

Bakunin said:


> Just when the Guardian couldn't have sunk any lower...
> 
> Iain Duncan Smith: ‘It is too easy to go out there and emote’



Guardian makes itself complicit in the deaths of the most vulnerable. Again.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 2, 2015)

I actually read all of it, jesus christ that's a puff piece. The Graunid is the enemy.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 2, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I actually read all of it, jesus christ that's a puff piece. The Graunid is the enemy.


This week's Statesman has an 8 page puff piece on Gove.


----------



## youngian (Oct 2, 2015)

J Ed said:


> This Christ-like thing is a creation of the right-wing/liberal media, I have not heard it reference anywhere else, they really are just talking to themselves within their own world.


Not only is Schrödinger's politician Corbyn Christ-like but is also just not up to the moral standards of most MPs by hanging out with murderering terrorists. By moral politicians I meant ones that have never put their arse on the line.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 3, 2015)

I was just about to post the shitty Wintour IDS puff piece, but you've already done it!


----------



## killer b (Oct 3, 2015)

christ. they've totally given up.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 3, 2015)

In praise of hipster capitalism 

The hipster is dead. Long live the hipster


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2015)

but last week they said we had hit peak beard


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 3, 2015)

“The Ferraris and champagne of yesteryear have been replaced with Tube tickets, bicycles and cappuccinos to go,” says McWilliams. He is a former British government adviser who is facing trial for allegedly assaulting a prostitute.


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 3, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> but last week they said we had hit peak beard


That was _so_ last year:

Hipsters warned that 'peak beard' may have been reached: study


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 3, 2015)

Belushi said:


> In praise of hipster capitalism
> 
> The hipster is dead. Long live the hipster


JFC. Hipster fashion becomes trendy. Yuppies appropriate hipster fashion. Guardian congratulates yuppies for authenticity.

Mind you, vaguely liberal would-be trendy yuppies are basically the Guardian's dream demographic so it isn't surprising.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Oct 3, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> JFC. Hipster fashion becomes trendy. Yuppies appropriate hipster fashion. Guardian congratulates yuppies for authenticity.
> 
> Mind you, vaguely liberal would-be trendy yuppies are basically the Guardian's dream demographic so it isn't surprising.



From that article:



> In the 2010s, Larry David is an unlikely style icon – but he’s the king of normcore.



Please tell me that normcore is not an actual thing.


----------



## killer b (Oct 3, 2015)

It is an actual thing. Id imagine its over by now, they were talking about normcore 5 years ago...


----------



## Sue (Oct 4, 2015)

Doing your makeup so you look like you were out the night before *when you weren't*. What is this bollocks..? 

Morning-after make-up | Eva Wiseman


----------



## cesare (Oct 4, 2015)

Sue said:


> Doing your makeup so you look like you were out the night before *when you weren't*. What is this bollocks..?
> 
> Morning-after make-up | Eva Wiseman


£170 of makeup if my mental arithmetic hasn't failed me.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2015)

Guardian journo is going round the Manc anti-austerity protest nitpicking and slagging it off, then gets indignant when she gets called what she is





Ruling class solidarity


----------



## cesare (Oct 4, 2015)

"Journalist scum then"


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2015)

They have got her worked out


----------



## Belushi (Oct 4, 2015)

She's that twat of a northern correspondent.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2015)

She's doing the whole 'I can't believe that these dumb oiks can't give their opinions while maintaining the dispassionate air someone like me who is totally unaffected by the cuts that are going to make their lives considerably worse' thing that liberals love. Of course, it doesn't apply to them when they are talking about anything that either threatens their interests of Britain's perceived foreign policy interests, then hysteria is not only acceptable but mandatory.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 4, 2015)

What the fuck!? A supposed left of centre or even middle ground journal gives full splash coverage of the Vermin Conference and anti-Corbyn comments and only gives passing mention to the demonstration. To think it was once The Manchester Guardian.

Hammond suggests Corbyn's leadership is already damaging Britain's reputation abroad - Politics live


----------



## andysays (Oct 4, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Guardian journo is going round the Manc anti-austerity protest nitpicking and slagging it off, then gets indignant when she gets called what she is...



Can't imagine she'll  be that popular among the conference goers either. This seems appropriate in the circs


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2015)

Belushi said:


> She's that twat of a northern correspondent.


Ah, she's dreadful. Her job appears to be to slag off the north. Should fuck off back to London.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 5, 2015)

Zabo said:


> What the fuck!? A supposed left of centre or even middle ground journal gives full splash coverage of the Vermin Conference and anti-Corbyn comments and only gives passing mention to the demonstration. To think it was once The Manchester Guardian.
> 
> Hammond suggests Corbyn's leadership is already damaging Britain's reputation abroad - Politics live



...and all these foreign leaders are definitely not smirking their faces off about the piggate thing then, I'm sure.  Cameron's a model of dignity and gravity.


----------



## killer b (Oct 5, 2015)

the live politics blog today has been illuminating: lots of approving noises and puff pieces. Contrasted with last week...


----------



## Belushi (Oct 6, 2015)

the avocado is overcado apparently

The avocado is overcado: how #eatclean turned it into a cliche


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 6, 2015)

Had to check this wasn't from a parody site tbh.

How any inanimate object is supposed to be 'aspirational' I suspect we'll need a philosopher to explain.


----------



## mauvais (Oct 6, 2015)

You know things have gone awry when the Telegraph go harder after the Tories (May's speech) than the Graun.


----------



## Flavour (Oct 6, 2015)

Interestingly the avocado piece is in a column entitled "fashtag"


----------



## NoXion (Oct 7, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Had to check this wasn't from a parody site tbh.
> 
> How any inanimate object is supposed to be 'aspirational' I suspect we'll need a philosopher to explain.



Seems simple to me. Certain people feel less special about eating things like avocados now that any oik knows about them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2015)

NoXion said:


> Seems simple to me. Certain people feel less special about eating things like avocados now that any oik knows about them.


bad news for the zionist entity.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> bad news for the zionist entity.



Not sure I follow. Surely increased avocado consumption would be good for the Zionist entity, assuming that is one of the things they export?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2015)

NoXion said:


> Not sure I follow. Surely increased avocado consumption would be good for the Zionist entity, assuming that is one of the things they export?


yes. but if people stop eating them as per article wld be bad news.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 7, 2015)

NoXion said:


> Seems simple to me. Certain people feel less special about eating things like avocados now that any oik knows about them.



Well who cares about the sort of tragic wanker who can only enjoy something if it's expensive and nobody else has heard of it?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 7, 2015)

mauvais said:


> You know things have gone awry when the Telegraph go harder after the Tories (May's speech) than the Graun.



Liberal virtue signalling dictates that they have to distinguish themselves from those nasty socialists somehow, and the best way to do that is by demonstrating how open minded and tolerant you are by kowtowing to the Tories.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 7, 2015)

This business of describing things or concepts as aspirational is still an abuse of the English language and I won't stand for it, not least because it's only ever used by cunts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2015)

May would press the big red button without hesitation. I bet she's had a dummy one installed in her office so she can practise turning various countries into irradiated glasslands


----------



## mauvais (Oct 7, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Liberal virtue signalling dictates that they have to distinguish themselves from those nasty socialists somehow, and the best way to do that is by demonstrating how open minded and tolerant you are by kowtowing to the Tories.


It was bleakly amusing to see how the unusual suspects of the IoD, Spectator, Telegraph, Guido Fawkes, Dan Hodges ("Migrant Finder General") came out against May, each for their own reasons, and yet pretty much the best the Graun could do was assemble those quotes into a little graphic that I now can't find. It's also funny how much indulgent sniping the Labour conference got last week, and how lightly the Tories get off this one.


----------



## killer b (Oct 7, 2015)

They clearly have a massive boner for Osborne


----------



## Belushi (Oct 7, 2015)

Osborne seems very impatient to wear the crown, I wonder what he knows about piggate


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 7, 2015)

mauvais said:


> It was bleakly amusing to see how the unusual suspects of the IoD, Spectator, Telegraph, Guido Fawkes, Dan Hodges ("Migrant Finder General") came out against May, each for their own reasons, and yet pretty much the best the Graun could do was assemble those quotes into a little graphic that I now can't find. It's also funny how much indulgent sniping the Labour conference got last week, and how lightly the Tories get off this one.



Alan Travis had a go, rebutted a few points. But not enough. 

Theresa May speech marks new low in politics of migration


----------



## killer b (Oct 7, 2015)

The story of the conference has been the big beasts of the party making a blatant play for the leadership. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cameron out within 12 months.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> The story of the conference has been the big beasts of the party making a blatant play for the leadership. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cameron out within 12 months.



Well he pledged to stay for 5 years in yesterday's Jon Snow interview


----------



## mauvais (Oct 7, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Alan Travis had a go, rebutted a few points. But not enough.
> 
> Theresa May speech marks new low in politics of migration


In the same way that a sloth might chase you. Keep your calendar clear.



> It may be time for May to face up to the reality that Britain is a country of mass migration


Yes Alan. Maybe.


----------



## killer b (Oct 7, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Well he pledged to stay for 5 years in yesterday's Jon Snow interview


As we know, Cameron's word is his bond.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Osborne seems very impatient to wear the crown, I wonder what he knows about piggate



it would really sum up the degeneracy of the political class. Out with the pigs head fucker, in with the person who probably still toots lines of a weekend. Bah. Someday a real rain will come...


----------



## andysays (Oct 7, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Well he pledged to stay for 5 years in yesterday's Jon Snow interview



Didn't he previously (sometime before the last election) pledge *not* to remain as leader for this entire term, or something similar?

Another example of him following the Tony Blair playbook...


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2015)

andysays said:


> Didn't he previously (sometime before the last election) pledge *not* to remain as leader for this entire term, or something similar?
> 
> Another example of him following the Tony Blair playbook...


he said he wouldn't be standing for a third term, not that he wants to give up the big chair before that.


----------



## belboid (Oct 7, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Alan Travis had a go, rebutted a few points. But not enough.
> 
> Theresa May speech marks new low in politics of migration


ITN economics editor rips her arguments apart - http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-10-06/theresa-mays-immigration-claims-are-put-to-the-test/


----------



## andysays (Oct 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> he said he wouldn't be standing for a third term, not that he wants to give up the big chair before that.



You're right, that is what he said, but it was widely interpreted (and was no doubt meant to be interpreted) to mean that he would step aside at an appropriate time to allow his successor to be chosen and make their mark well before the next election, rather than clinging to power until the very last day possible.


----------



## Combustible (Oct 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> The story of the conference has been the big beasts of the party making a blatant play for the leadership. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cameron out within 12 months.



Can't see Cameron going before the EU referendum. It would be very dangerous to have leadership candidates competing to be the toughest on Europe, when the Tories really need to get the smallest change possible that will allow them to campaign to stay in.


----------



## treelover (Oct 7, 2015)

J Ed said:


> She's doing the whole 'I can't believe that these dumb oiks can't give their opinions while maintaining the dispassionate air someone like me who is totally unaffected by the cuts that are going to make their lives considerably worse' thing that liberals love. Of course, it doesn't apply to them when they are talking about anything that either threatens their interests of Britain's perceived foreign policy interests, then hysteria is not only acceptable but mandatory.




She went to Sheffield Uni and is the Guardians Northern Correspondent, she is usually quite good, certainly not snobbish, etc


----------



## treelover (Oct 7, 2015)

andysays said:


> Can't imagine she'll  be that popular among the conference goers either. This seems appropriate in the circs





fantastic song.


----------



## treelover (Oct 7, 2015)

killer b said:


> the live politics blog today has been illuminating: lots of approving noises and puff pieces. Contrasted with last week...




Sparrow definitely appear to be on the centre right, he is well respected by the readers, etc, though.


----------



## treelover (Oct 7, 2015)

mauvais said:


> It was bleakly amusing to see how the unusual suspects of the IoD, Spectator, Telegraph, Guido Fawkes, Dan Hodges ("Migrant Finder General") came out against May, each for their own reasons, *and yet pretty much the best the Graun could do was assemble those quotes into a little graphic that I now can't find*. It's also funny how much indulgent sniping the Labour conference got last week, and how lightly the Tories get off this one.




Which ironically has been used on the web by many leftists, open borders advocates, etc to support their arguments.


----------



## killer b (Oct 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Sparrow definitely appear to be on the centre right, he is well respected by the readers, etc, though.


The readers of a centre-right newspaper respect a centre-right journalist you say? Incredible insight there.


----------



## treelover (Oct 7, 2015)

Most readers would see themselves as centre left, even if you and others on here, do not.


----------



## killer b (Oct 7, 2015)

They'd probably see Andrew sparrow as centre-left too.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 8, 2015)

> If Mr Cameron’s speech does become an enduring Conservative reference point, it will be because this was a consciously signposting speech for a reformist Tory pitch to those centrist voters on whom Labour has turned its back.



Christ you know it's bad when Polly Toynbee's got a better understanding of what Cameron was actually saying than the official editorial. What is this "between the lines" that you speak of?


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 8, 2015)

treelover said:


> Which ironically has been used on the web by many leftists, open borders advocates, etc to support their arguments.


Say what?


----------



## Zabo (Oct 9, 2015)

The G is currently running their pop-up questionnaire. It includes little comment boxes to tell them how good they have been at out Vermining the Vermins with their relentless attacks on Corbyn. Good to let them know how nasty their commentwatterati are.

Help yourself.


----------



## Balbi (Oct 10, 2015)

Should we still bother with street protests?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2015)

We?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2015)

Balbi said:


> Should we still bother with street protests?


I love it when two oxbridge  types have an argument about if i can speak for myself. Ed V was in big flame  btw,

edit: his old man set up tj hughes as well. Blimey.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 10, 2015)

Balbi said:


> Should we still bother with street protests?



The rhetoric of neoliberals is becoming indistinguishable of that of the Chinese Communist Party.

We must end street protests which threaten our harmonious society and put the motherland in jeopardy!


----------



## J Ed (Oct 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I love it when two oxbridge  types have an argument about if i can speak for myself. Ed V was in big flame  btw,



It's quite insane that they are actually having this 'conversation' in the Guardian. What's next? "Should we bother not killing minorities anymore?, "is it time to end elections?"


----------



## teqniq (Oct 11, 2015)

I put this in the Syria thread but it deserves to go here too

British forces could help achieve an ethical solution in Syria

An exercise in self-delusion Andrew Mitchell and Jo Cox

this dismal article has spawned a Twitter spat with it's own Graun article

Labour MP tells Diane Abbott to stop behaving like an 'internet troll'

We are told that Dianne Abbott tweeted "Labour MPs want to support Cameron in his long held desire to bomb Syria”.

Which prompted the reply used in the title of the strapline from one John Woodcock, chairman of Progress. Nuff said really.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 11, 2015)

andysays said:


> Didn't he previously (sometime before the last election) pledge *not* to remain as leader for this entire term, or something similar?
> 
> Another example of him following the Tony Blair playbook...



Yes he did. The difference between him and Blair is that they hounded the war criminal incessently about it. They won't bother to do so with Captain Pigfuck, even though Blair was a r/w twat the rules are still different really.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 12, 2015)

Not that Matthew d'Ancona takes much convincing...
Toryism has found its heart – but must convince us it beats | Matthew d’Ancona

(and last week's equally paltry effort: This is the Tory moment. Will Cameron blow it? | Matthew d’Ancona)


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 15, 2015)

A history of nudity: Playboy's censorship is a throwback to the medieval era

johnathon jones writes  a woefully confused, historically inaccurate, predictably pompous and utterly shit argument  that tries to equate the "celebration of the female nude" with progressive civilisation - in response to playboy dropping its nude models.

A example of the gems found within -

"All great civilisations have celebrated the naked beauty of women."

Special talent to get so much nonsense in just one sentence. Where do they find these cunts?

Oh - yeah - oxbridge.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 15, 2015)

It's not even self-censorship FFS. The market is changing and Playboy are responding to that.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 17, 2015)

Guardian faces cutbacks after ‘difficult’ year

Pemsel and Viner gearing up for another skirmish with the most fundamentalist and snake-handling of chapels, presumably about whether losing £25m a year counts as "extraordinary circumstances" and justifies redundancies. There remain staff in that newsroom who barely publish a word  of content from week to week.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Guardian faces cutbacks after ‘difficult’ year
> 
> Pemsel and Viner gearing up for another skirmish with the most fundamentalist and snake-handling of chapels, presumably about whether losing £25m a year counts as "extraordinary circumstances" and justifies redundancies. There remain staff in that newsroom who barely publish a word  of content from week to week.


Fuck off


----------



## andysays (Oct 17, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Guardian faces cutbacks after ‘difficult’ year
> 
> Pemsel and Viner gearing up for another skirmish with the most fundamentalist and snake-handling of chapels, presumably about whether losing £25m a year counts as "extraordinary circumstances" and justifies redundancies. There remain staff in that newsroom who barely publish a word  of content from week to week.









The Guardian's NUJ chapel at a recent meeting

You fucking plum...


----------



## killer b (Oct 17, 2015)

Wow. It's like those hilarious stories people tell about roadworks with on guy working and 15 people watching. Just the uncomfortable truth, not a wedge against solidarity.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2015)

Shut up,  it *is* hilarious.  Like comparing Corbyn supporters to the Hitler youth was. I'm still laughing.


----------



## andysays (Oct 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> Wow. It's like those hilarious stories people tell about roadworks with on guy working and 15 people watching. Just the uncomfortable truth, not a wedge against solidarity.



What maurice fails to point out, either through ignorance or deliberate dishonesty, is that the reason many journalists don't have a word published from one week to the next is that the term "journalist" is not synonomous with "writer".


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2015)

Jesus the pimpery
Danny Cohen: the political animal who got rid of Jeremy Clarkson


----------



## J Ed (Oct 17, 2015)

This is actually worse than what I would expect from the Daily Mail Modern tribes: the anti-gentrification warrior


----------



## J Ed (Oct 17, 2015)

Oh god I missed this Modern tribes: the brocialist


----------



## brogdale (Oct 17, 2015)

*"..revealed.."
*


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 17, 2015)

brogdale said:


> *"..revealed.."
> *


presumably they were actually surprised by this, whereas the rest of us aren't...


----------



## brogdale (Oct 17, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> presumably they were actually surprised by this, whereas the rest of us aren't...


Usual ill-informed, shallow and ahistorical twaddle.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 17, 2015)

I for one am shocked and horrified at this aberration in Britain's otherwise impeccably ethical arms trade. Fancy selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, well I am sure that it is a one off that will never happen again.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 17, 2015)

Mentioned a few weeks ago in the Goldsmith thread...and well worth a look.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 17, 2015)

J Ed said:


> This is actually worse than what I would expect from the Daily Mail Modern tribes: the anti-gentrification warrior


Oh god. That's sub-Hislop.


----------



## oryx (Oct 18, 2015)

I haven't event read the latest one but I wish they'd get rid of the Modern Tribes garbage.

Vacuous shite always written in the same style. Just reading the first few words of each one makes me want to reach for the sickbag. I can't even read the whole first sentence, ffs.


----------



## Nylock (Oct 18, 2015)

J Ed said:


> This is actually worse than what I would expect from the Daily Mail Modern tribes: the anti-gentrification warrior


My god, that entire series is a load of bilge... Happily this opinion seems to be reflected in the comments sections of each as well.... I wonder if the 'journalist' in question actually reads the responses and if so, why do they bother to continue producing them?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 18, 2015)

Bennett is also responsible for the abysmal _Mrs Cameron's Diary. _Columnist, though, not staff.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 18, 2015)

Just coming on here to report that my life has improved since I stopped reading the guardian. I'm not even joking. I now spend less time pissed off by faux-leftists, wet liberals and 'lifestyle' writers, and I feel better for it.

I sometimes click on interesting-looking columns that people post on social media, but I always make sure to go no further.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2015)

always stop reading before you get to the comments. Always.


----------



## rekil (Oct 18, 2015)

Rubbish piece on the new Black Panthers documentary by Andrew Anthony, one of those guardianistas that have been around for 25 years but I've never noticed til now.

Black power’s coolest radicals (but also a gang of ruthless killers)

He has what looks like a sub Nick Cohen book out.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 18, 2015)

killer b said:


> always stop reading before you get to the comments. Always.



That's the Helen Smith philosophy isn't it?


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2015)

I assume you mean Lewis, but yeah it's not far off. 

"Comments on any article about feminism justify feminism."


----------



## rekil (Oct 18, 2015)

Helen Lewis and the rest of that wretched oxbridge scab claque justify the need for violent class struggle tbf


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2015)

copliker said:


> Rubbish piece on the new Black Panthers documentary by Andrew Anthony, one of those guardianistas that have been around for 25 years but I've never noticed til now.
> 
> Black power’s coolest radicals (but also a gang of ruthless killers)
> 
> ...



couldn't make it to the end. Wanker.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2015)

Absolutely, but she did nail that particular phenomena.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 18, 2015)

killer b said:


> I assume you mean Lewis, but yeah it's not far off.
> 
> "Comments on any article about feminism justify feminism."



Yes, Lewis. I also agree that she is probably right but I think that she applies the same logic to other articles as well.


----------



## rekil (Oct 18, 2015)

killer b said:


> Absolutely, but she did nail that particular phenomena.


I'm not entirely convinced that Lewis differentiates between the card carrying sexual-assault-case-waiting-to-happen loons and people just going 'hang on, that's made up' and the like.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 18, 2015)

copliker said:


> Helen Jewis and the rest of that wretched oxbridge scab claque justify the need for violent class struggle tbf


Jewis?


----------



## rekil (Oct 18, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Jewis?


<fixed> Trying to type with a cat sprawled on me


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2015)

huh, digging I find Tupacs stepdad was a Panther. Every day is a schoolday \ot


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2015)

copliker said:


> I'm not entirely convinced that Lewis differentiates between the card carrying sexual-assault-case-waiting-to-happen loons and people just going 'hang on, that's made up' and the like.


Yeah, but there's a huge amount of middle ground between the two positions - aand while Lewis will certainly use whatever opportunities are presented to her to get off the hook, there's also legions of men who's scrutiny of her other prominent feminists is inspired (at least in part) by misogyny rather than the love of truth.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 18, 2015)

If I were a female columnist I wouldn't be in the mood to go through the comments distinguishing between the possibly justified criticisms and the rape threats.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2015)

That sounds like a job for an intern.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> huh, digging I find Tupacs stepdad was a Panther. Every day is a schoolday \ot



Digging lol


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 18, 2015)

killer b said:


> That sounds like a job for an intern.


'Job'? _'Training exercise'_, if you please


----------



## cantsin (Oct 18, 2015)

copliker said:


> Rubbish piece on the new Black Panthers documentary by Andrew Anthony, one of those guardianistas that have been around for 25 years but I've never noticed til now.
> 
> Black power’s coolest radicals (but also a gang of ruthless killers)
> 
> ...



tbf to their Graun on, AA very much Observer bod, not Graun I dont think - and the Observer has always had all sorts of random reactionary wank amongst the columnists, not just Cohen.


----------



## rekil (Oct 19, 2015)

cantsin said:


> tbf to their Graun on, AA very much Observer bod, not Graun I dont think - and the Observer has always had all sorts of random reactionary wank amongst the columnists, not just Cohen.


That reminds me of this episode sorry


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2015)

Bambi: graffiti artist on why she's more than just a 'female Banksy’

More pimping out of their mate's shit artwork. bland, derivative, tame cobblers marketted as edgy street art. 



> Street artist, whose fans range from Robbie Williams to Rihanna, reveals importance of social issues and feminism to her work



Good luck if you can any examples of said issues in her steniclled reproduction's of HMV posters. And chinny rekon on the celebrity endorsement. My spider senses say cynical marketing ploy ahoy.


----------



## andysays (Oct 19, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Bambi: graffiti artist on why she's more than just a 'female Banksy’
> 
> More pimping out of their mate's shit artwork. bland, derivative, tame cobblers marketted as edgy street art...



You know you've really made it as a street artist when your fans range from Robbie Williams to Rihanna


----------



## Belushi (Oct 19, 2015)

It does read to me like bullshit from start to finish.


----------



## rekil (Oct 19, 2015)

Reminder that Lewis also came out with this 


> A lot of what happens on Facebook, as with Twitter, is “virtue signalling” – showing off to your friends about how right on you are.


 So are articles on feminism that for instance she commissions for her rotten scab mag *really* about feminism? Or are they mere "virtue signalling", driven by what she calls "the tyranny of the like"? Who knows. Looks a bit multitudinous positionism tbh.


----------



## andysays (Oct 19, 2015)

copliker said:


> Reminder that Lewis also came out with this
> So are articles on feminism that for instance she commissions for her rotten scab mag *really* about feminism? Or are they mere "virtue signalling", driven by what she calls "the tyranny of the like"? Who knows. Looks a bit multitudinous positionism tbh.



Sounds to me like craven elite hypocrisy of the "don't do what I do, do what I say" type rather than multitudinous positionism (and sounds like *someone* needs to go on a re-education programme to learn to tell the difference ).

But "virtue signalling" is certainly an interesting concept, and one which I'm sure we can find many examples of in the Guardian/commentariat/intersectionalist milieu and beyond.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2015)

Guardian #1:



> Documents show CPS told Swedish authorities it would ‘not be prudent’ to interview WikiLeaks founder inside Ecuadorian embassy



Guardian #2



> In one email, dated 25 January 2011, a CPS lawyer called Paul Close writes to Ny’s office repeating his advice that “in my view it would not be prudent” for Swedish prosecutors to question Assange in the UK over the accusations, rather than insisting on his extradition to Sweden.



He went into the embassy in june 2012

The most basic of fact checking.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2015)




----------



## frogwoman (Oct 23, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 78441



when i read stuff like that am i the only one who thinks "I wish someone would focus on my body"?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> when i read stuff like that am i the only one who thinks "I wish someone would focus on my body"?


perhaps you should ride your broomstick more often.


----------



## killer b (Oct 23, 2015)

The only think worse than being sexually objectified is not being sexually objectified, as oscar Wilde would probably have it.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 23, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> when i read stuff like that am i the only one who thinks "I wish someone would focus on my body"?


I thought I was doing OK for my age, but yesterday I had to get some passport photos made. . .


----------



## ska invita (Oct 23, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> I thought I was doing OK for my age, but yesterday I had to get some passport photos made. . .


hah just had some done today - i blame these new digital booths - those old proper film ones never took bad photos


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 23, 2015)

ska invita said:


> hah just had some done today - i blame these new digital booths - those old proper film ones never took bad photos


"I'll be cold in my grave before I recognize Missouri".


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 23, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> I thought I was doing OK for my age, but yesterday I had to get some passport photos made. . .



me too tbh.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 23, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> me too tbh.


Get to fuck, you're not even 30!


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 23, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Get to fuck, you're not even 30!



you havent seen the photos


----------



## killer b (Oct 23, 2015)

Dont want to rub your noses in it, but I was sexually objectified only this morning.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Dont want to rub your noses in it, but I was sexually objectified only this morning.


It doesn't count if a mirror was involved.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 23, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> you havent seen the photos



That's what you think.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 23, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> That's what you think.



it actually looks a bit like that  i look like a serial killer.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Dont want to rub your noses in it, but I was sexually objectified only this morning.


 If you objectify yourself too much, you will go blind


----------



## killer b (Oct 23, 2015)

By a person!


----------



## killer b (Oct 23, 2015)

(a person that wasn't me!)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2015)

Pronoun avoidance is _soooo _2014


----------



## belboid (Oct 23, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Pronoun avoidance is _soooo _2014


are you kidding? With the number of 11 year olds I know who have decided they are trans, it's almost a legal obligation


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> ...With the number of 11 year olds I know...




Somewhere in Yewtree HQ a small klaxon just sounded

ETA:

Undeservedly, I hasten to add!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Dont want to rub your noses in it, but I was sexually objectified only this morning.



Someone calling you a dick isn't sexual objectification.


----------



## rekil (Oct 24, 2015)

Not a peep about the Portugal election shenanigans.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 24, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> I thought I was doing OK for my age, but yesterday I had to get some passport photos made. . .



Once had an arguement with a very senior officer whose id photo must have been taken at sandhurst 30 years ago  had to get someone to vouch for him


----------



## Favelado (Oct 24, 2015)

> *‘If I have an orgasm, I use it as time to focus on what I want to achieve, professionally or personally’*



No, really.

The magic number: how many people have you slept with?


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 24, 2015)

likesfish said:


> Once had an arguement with a very senior officer whose id photo must have been taken at sandhurst 30 years ago  had to get someone to vouch for him


I once got some funny looks at passport control in Moscow, when I handed over a passport whose photo was taken during the brief period when I wasn't a fat bastard.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2015)

copliker said:


> Not a peep about the Portugal election shenanigans.


still trying to work out their electoral system and how it works probably, I know I am. But then nobody pays me to write about current affairs


----------



## weepiper (Oct 24, 2015)

Favelado said:


> No, really.
> 
> The magic number: how many people have you slept with?



 I'm not sure she knows what an orgasm is.


----------



## Favelado (Oct 24, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I'm not sure she knows what an orgasm is.



"Ohhhh......mmmmmmmmm......oooooooooohhhhhhhh..............MUST SIGN UP FOR GEEEERRRMAAAANNN CLASSSESSSS.....AAAAAAAARGH.......DENTAL COVER...OOooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh."

*lights fag and turns to partner*

"_That_ was fucking brilliant."


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 24, 2015)

Favelado said:


> "Ohhhh......mmmmmmmmm......oooooooooohhhhhhhh..............MUST SIGN UP FOR GEEEERRRMAAAANNN CLASSSESSSS.....AAAAAAAARGH.......DENTAL COVER...OOooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh."
> 
> *lights fag and turns to partner*
> 
> "_That_ was fucking brilliant."


Have a toofer for free:


----------



## Bakunin (Oct 24, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps you should ride your broomstick more often.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2015)

This sort of thing. It's not the NT.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 25, 2015)

Awful article which strawmans the position of those who allege bias in the Graunid's coverage of Corbyn The readers’ editor on… the Observer and Jeremy Corbyn | Stephen Pritchard

I know that posting comments is frowned upon here, but there are some truly great ones in response

This is the best one imo



> The issue is that you chose, along with the Guardian, right from the outset, before he had been elected, to take an aggressive stance against Corbyn, which you pursued as his increasing popularity led to the biggest upset in modern British politics. That was a phenomenon you ignored. It was an astonishing indication of political sentiment in this country. You may say that time will tell if it’s enough to carry him to victory, but you don’t really have a clue one way or another, and in the meantime, you let down not only your readers, but your function and role as a news outlet to acknowledge the sudden outpouring of a political sentiment in your nation of which, as journalists, none of you had any inkling, as you yourself admit.
> 
> You’re out of touch, not just with a large section of your readership, but with what is probably a large section of public sentiment. It’s the inevitable consequence of a Westminster bubble inflated by over thirty years of political and economic ‘consensus’ that has seen political debate reduced to the imperceptible ideological difference that lies in a NewLabour politician voting for the welfare bill as opposed to a Tory one. This is Fukuyama’s 'End of History’, in which we don’t need political debate since we arrived at the final synthesis of all political thought, which would appear to be neoliberal, free market fundamentalism. Fukuyama is an imbecile. Anyone peddling the end of ideological thought hasn’t the first clue about human behaviour, and history is littered with the busted theories of these idiots, but when the public has been given no political choice for over three decades, you shouldn’t mistake the ensuing political constipation for consensus. You have done, though, and in the process you have grown out of touch with the mood of intense frustration in your country; because it has had no outlet for expression, you have not so much ignored it, as failed to recognise its existence. That’s what slapped you in the face when politics which you had assumed were dead returned a man to the leadership of Labour with three times the number of votes as the candidate who came second.
> 
> ...


----------



## belboid (Oct 25, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Awful article which strawmans the position of those who allege bias in the Graunid's coverage of Corbyn The readers’ editor on… the Observer and Jeremy Corbyn | Stephen Pritchard


Interesting that he quotes an article from 1960, which supports Hugh Gaitskell leadership campaign, saying that the awful left-winger Harold Wilson would ensure labour never won another election


----------



## J Ed (Oct 25, 2015)

belboid said:


> Interesting that he quotes an article from 1960, which supports Hugh Gaitskell leadership campaign, saying that the awful left-winger Harold Wilson would ensure labour never won another election



I had no idea that anyone ever said that about Wilson, funny.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 25, 2015)

a good comment but I can't help but feel the author has missed the opportunity to slag them for the lib dem backing. The keen political noses of toynbee and white, calling it wrong every time


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 25, 2015)

AFAIK fukuyama refined his position in light of subsequent events, hes right wing afaik but its a bit much to call him an imbicile


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 26, 2015)

I just don't even.

David Cameron: The Conservatives have become the party of equality


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Oct 26, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> I just don't even.
> 
> David Cameron: The Conservatives have become the party of equality



I think the internet phrase to use is here "rofl".


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 26, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> I just don't even.
> 
> David Cameron: The Conservatives have become the party of equality



"Your all fucked"


----------



## rekil (Oct 27, 2015)

Argentina’s stunning win for democracy

Inch deep load of rubbish about the Argentina elections by a cunt called David Smith who was a journo there in 1977 but can't seem remember anything about it funny enough. "Real world" klaxon. Never mind that Argentina has been subjected to the 'real world' stuff a bit already, under the junta and then under the likes of the crook Menem. Smith boasts about "having a good working relationship" with Menem in that BA Herald link.



> This should be a no-holds-barred campaign, a duel of ideas between two very different agendas, and philosophies. The Peronists, under Scioli, preach “continuity with change” [sic], and are advocates of welfare and subsidies that make the monthly electricity bill less than the price of a pizza.
> 
> In contrast comes Macri, pro-business, pro-markets. A man who insists he will take Argentina back to the real world, and open the country up for growth and investment. Whatever the final outcome, what matters to those of us who care about an extraordinary country and culture, is that it remains democratic, a bellwether in Latin America of open government, press freedom and judicial independence – not a haven of corruption and nepotism.



The Buenos Aires Herald has a slightly different take.



			
				BAH said:
			
		

> Relations between Macri and human rights groups have long been tense. As soon as Macri took office in City Hall, he made waves with human rights organizations by appointing former judge Federico Young to head the Agency for Communal Control. Young had close ties to groups defending dictatorship-era repressors. Rights groups were also critical of Macri for naming Federal Police (PFA) inspector Jorge “Fino” Palacios to take charge of the Metropolitan Police even though he faced charges for reportedly seeking to cover up the 1994 attack on the AMIA Jewish community centre.
> 
> The possibility that Juan José Gómez Centurión — a former carapintada rebel who rose up against a constitutionally elected president — could play an important role in Macri’s Defence Ministry earned the PRO leader rebukes from his Radical (UCR) party allies within the Let’s Change coalition last week.


----------



## Flavour (Oct 27, 2015)

"not a haven of corruption and nepotism" - that's perhaps the most outlandish and laughably bonkers thing I've read all day. In comparison to where? According to that corruption perceptions index (yeah yeah not claiming they're perfect or anything) Argentina ranks 107 out of 175 countries, behind Mexico, Brazil and Colombia, and only slightly better than Guatemala and Honduras. Not a haven of corruption my arse.




			
				transparency said:
			
		

> *Judiciary*
> Lack of transparency and clear rules in the selection of judges in Argentina suggests that parts of the judiciary may suffer from political influence. This absence of autonomy is particularly seen in the judiciary’s relationship with the executive branch.
> 
> In a high profile scandal, Vice President Amado Boudou was accused of illegal enrichment, money laundering and influence peddling to allegedly prevent the bankruptcy of a mint and printing company. The pursuit of the allegations brought about the removal of the presiding judge and resignation of the prosecutor. This followed Boudou’s alleged business partner’s accusations that the presiding judge lost his objectivity. Criminal charges were brought against the prosecutor by Boudou himself.
> ...


----------



## emanymton (Oct 28, 2015)

Just been browsing the guardian website and they are running recruitment adds for MI6.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 28, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> I just don't even.
> 
> David Cameron: The Conservatives have become the party of equality



Cor he's forever talking to black people isn't he? That's _two_ now


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 28, 2015)

At this point, they're just trying to troll what remains of their long-term leadership, aren't they?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Just been browsing the guardian website and they are running recruitment adds for MI6.


"A super XXY career awaits!"


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 28, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Just been browsing the guardian website and they are running recruitment adds for MI6.




Why shouldn't they? We're talking about a free-to-air news organisation, losing £20m a year, for which public sector recruitment advertising used to be an enormous money spinner and now is very much less so. So what other public sector employers besides SIS do you suggest they boycott? The security service? GCHQ? Prisons? Police?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 28, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Just been browsing the guardian website and they are running recruitment adds for MI6.




Join now, get your own overnight bag?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Join now, get your own overnight bag?


 
AHEM 




DaveCinzano said:


> "A super XXY career awaits!"


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 28, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> AHEM



I have no idea what that means.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> I have no idea what that means.


Not exactly Bletchley Park material, are you


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 28, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Not exactly Bletchley Park material, are you



Maybe I'm just bluffing to make you let your guard down? Or maybe not? HOW CAN YOU KNOW?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Maybe I'm just bluffing to make you let your guard down? Or maybe not? HOW CAN YOU KNOW?


 Because your flies are undone, which indicates you couldn't bluff your way out of an automated public lavatory


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 28, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Because your flies are undone, which indicates you couldn't bluff your way out of an automated public lavatory



Unless I'm a quirky English professor! 







Clothes are a distraction from Science!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> I have no idea what that means.



XXY is a brand of zip, very robust, usually found on luggage and clothing.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 28, 2015)

copliker said:


> On a related note, Laurie Penny's sister.
> 
> Public school/Oxbridge then enquire within public school/oxbridge educated chum bubble for the shtart.



Proving that I'm really un-observant/out of touch with such things, I only discovered this afternoon that Laurie had a sister who seems to be very much going down the same route as her.

Today: Novara, Tomorrow: the WorldNew Statesman.


----------



## Celyn (Oct 28, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> XXY is a brand of zip, very robust, usually found on luggage and clothing.



You are complete bastard! 'Cos I knew you were joking but also knew that I couldn't remember the actual name of the well-known zip and, while I generally quite enjoy my daft wonderings about useless information, usually it's about something a bit more interesting than sodding zips! Huh.


----------



## Flavour (Oct 28, 2015)

Yes.


----------



## rekil (Nov 3, 2015)

Et tu Foster?





> If you can’t buy a home made of bricks in a welcoming neighbourhood, why not buy one made of wood, that moors wherever fancy takes you?


I'm not going to dignify that with an answer.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 4, 2015)

Do your clothes pass the feminist test?

Sadly, I can no longer class myself as a feminist, unable as I high to pay "high street prices" for "impressively affordable" £69 jumpers and £21 knickers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 4, 2015)

copliker said:


> Et tu Foster?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i got the impresion most live on boat people get treated like water tramps and everywhere to moor thats safe is more than even a guardian journo's yearly wine budget


----------



## J Ed (Nov 4, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Do your clothes pass the feminist test?
> 
> Sadly, I can no longer class myself as a feminist, unable as I high to pay "high street prices" for "impressively affordable" £69 jumpers and £21 knickers.



Surely £69 is a bit steep for a jumper even for someone on a Graunid journo middle-class salary?


----------



## J Ed (Nov 4, 2015)

Imagine a world in which the Graunid printed articles about commodity fetishism instead of barely disguised adverts for luxury goods using a very small veneer of liberal feminism as an excuse to do so.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 4, 2015)

I'd rather imagine a world where the Girder team had taken over their office and thrown the worst offendors out of the window


----------



## J Ed (Nov 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd rather imagine a world where the Girder team had taken over their office and thrown the worst offendors out of the window



The only question would be - would you do the New $tatesman first or the Graunid? It's a tough choice.


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Surely £69 is a bit steep for a jumper even for someone on a Graunid journo middle-class salary?


you obviously never look at the clobber in the saturday supplements


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 4, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Surely £69 is a bit steep for a jumper even for someone on a Graunid journo middle-class salary?



On the contrary, I'd be pleasantly surprised if more than a vanishingly small minority of Guardian journalists even knew where you could go to get a jumper that cheap.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 4, 2015)

now they've all discovered charity shops and lower-end supermarkets as well. And the reduced aisle. We're fucked.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 4, 2015)

I once spent £80 on a jumper. It was a very nice jumper but it very soon ended up with a large blimhole in the chest from the nasty squidgy black I was smoking. I spent a large part of my student grant on it. Remember those? 

Another paragraph of that, criticising the abolition of grants and I have a Comment Is Free article. How much could I get?


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 4, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I once spent £80 on a jumper. It was a very nice jumper but it very soon ended up with a large blimhole in the chest from the nasty squidgy black I was smoking. I spent a large part of my student grant on it. Remember those?



Thank god for the edit function, eh?  But now we'll never know whether you're utter scum, or just a mug


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 4, 2015)

Call me a scummy mug then as I'd happily spend £80 or more if I could afford it


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 4, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Call me a scummy mug then as I'd happily spend £80 or more if I could afford it



£80 is a little steep, £800 surely strictly for members of the fashion industry and oligarchs' arm candy.


----------



## killer b (Nov 4, 2015)

Jeffrey Lewis just posted a link to this article, with the following message...

_Nice Guardian article. (Even though the photo is from 2008, and most quotes attributed to me are just plucked word-for-word from the "Artist Statement" that was printed/handed-out by the LPR gallery curators. The article tries to make it look like I personally spoke these things in a conversation. Journalism is weird.)_

interesting to see if this pans out.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 4, 2015)

What's the difference between an "artist statement" and a press release? It's a standard journalistic convention to report public statements thus. Artists are weird. But we knew that.


----------



## killer b (Nov 4, 2015)

It isn't standard journalistic practice to report quotes from previously published material as if it's a new interview. That's exactly what Hari was busted for doing.


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2015)

killer b said:


> It isn't standard journalistic practice to report quotes from previously published material as if it's a new interview. That's exactly what Hari was busted for doing.


i thought Lewis was being a bit unfair on the journo when I read the first half.  But then this bit came up:



> *I ask* if the volume of artwork on display is where he got the name for the show. “The overnight success inherent in the title is an ironic contrast to this show marking my seventh humble album release,” *he says.*


which is deep into Hari territory


----------



## killer b (Nov 4, 2015)

the opening paragraph is hilarious too -



> In an era of music venues changing their names to reflect their corporate sponsors and musicians hiring assistants to run their social media accounts, singer-songwriter Jeffrey Lewis is refreshingly accessible – he runs his own merchandise stand, sleeps in fans’ houses during tours, and replies personally to his social media and email accounts.



hey dickhead, he doesn't do that because he prefers the personal touch. ffs, he even wrote a song about it.


----------



## killer b (Nov 4, 2015)

(this is the song btw)


----------



## J Ed (Nov 4, 2015)

This whole article is basically just an exercise in gaslighting. My work at GCHQ and the surveillance myths that need busting


----------



## killer b (Nov 4, 2015)

killer b said:


> Jeffrey Lewis just posted a link to this article, with the following message...
> 
> _Nice Guardian article. (Even though the photo is from 2008, and most quotes attributed to me are just plucked word-for-word from the "Artist Statement" that was printed/handed-out by the LPR gallery curators. The article tries to make it look like I personally spoke these things in a conversation. Journalism is weird.)_
> 
> interesting to see if this pans out.


The writer has been slagged off in the comments, hauled into the office to make some changes and now it's a complete mess. Brilliant.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 4, 2015)

HI DANIEL


----------



## J Ed (Nov 4, 2015)

If any graunid journos are reading this btw fuck you red neoliberal groupthink ruling class solidarity cunts


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd rather imagine a world where the Girder team had taken over their office and thrown the worst offendors out of the window



Imagines Roy Castle doing a soft shoe shuffle and singing

"Defenestration whoa whoa,
defenestration whoa whoa,
defenestration, it's what you need..."


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 5, 2015)

Apparently rich Russians are being beastly to BP, so some oligarch shouldn't have an Oxford University building named after him

Oxford University criticised for accepting oligarch's £75m donation

(Meanwhile, down in Colombia...)


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 5, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Imagines Roy Castle doing a soft shoe shuffle and singing
> 
> "Defenestration whoa whoa,
> defenestration whoa whoa,
> defenestration, it's what you need..."


if you wanna be a window breaker


----------



## Zabo (Nov 6, 2015)

I see they have now added further pleas not to use Ad Blockers with a new top banner featuring the likes of Toynbee and other well known radicals begging for money to support their revolutionary rag and their cosy lives.

All I can say after their Corbyn smear campaign, the sooner they go down the pan the better.

Speaking of pans, I''ll miss features on how to cook fondant potatoes and a slice of toast al la Oliver.

How to make the perfect fondant potatoes

How to make toast, the Jamie Oliver way


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 6, 2015)

I like the 'how to make the perfect....' series - nothing wrong with that!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2015)

the toast articleas again. Fucks sake. If you need a paper to tell you how to make toast then I'm not sure you can be trusted in the kitchen. There are sharp things in there


----------



## Zabo (Nov 6, 2015)

It's a classic along with Delia's 'How to boil an egg'. Alas she never mentioned how long it would take if one was trekking in Nepal.


----------



## rekil (Nov 6, 2015)

"Met chief says horses targeted in 'despicable' Million Mask violence" 

"I’m working class, the son of a refugee … and a Conservative. Here’s why"


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 6, 2015)

copliker said:


> "Met chief says horses targeted in 'despicable' Million Mask violence"



"...Marbles rolled under hoofs...darts found embedded in saddles...fistfuls of Iceland mince lobbed by sneering louts...jumpers for goalposts...samurai swords...£20 and a packed lunch..."


----------



## J Ed (Nov 6, 2015)

copliker said:


> "
> "I’m working class, the son of a refugee … and a Conservative. Here’s why"



Glad to see the Graunid standing up for the people who are really persecuted in society.

On that note, can anyone remember the last time that the Guardian did a similar piece about a disabled person affected by the actual structural violence of re-assessments? Me either.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 6, 2015)

copliker said:


> "Met chief says horses targeted in 'despicable' Million Mask violence"



Where's that video of a bunch of mounted filth charging into a defenceless crowd of people a couple of years back?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> "...Marbles rolled under hoofs...darts found embedded in saddles...fistfuls of Iceland mince lobbed by sneering louts...jumpers for goalposts...samurai swords...£20 and a packed lunch..."


the pockets of the dead were robbedetc

30 years later it turns out they were, by the police


----------



## emanymton (Nov 7, 2015)

copliker said:


> "Met chief says horses targeted in 'despicable' Million Mask violence"





> PC Claire Rees said her horse, Quixote, who suffered injuries to his front legs in the Mall, had been “very brave”. She said: “I just think it is a very cowardly thing to do. Horses should never be targeted. It was very intimidating.


Don't use the to charge protesters then you stupid fucking cunt.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 7, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the toast articleas again. Fucks sake. If you need a paper to tell you how to make toast then I'm not sure you can be trusted in the kitchen. There are sharp things in there


----------



## rekil (Nov 7, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Where's that video of a bunch of mounted filth charging into a defenceless crowd of people a couple of years back?


This one? 



Spoiler








This is much better. From a protest against the showing of a homage to Pinochet.



Spoiler


----------



## andysays (Nov 7, 2015)

> PC Claire Rees said her horse, Quixote, who suffered injuries to his front legs in the Mall, had been “very brave”. She said: “I just think it is a very cowardly thing to do. Horses should never be targeted. It was very intimidating.





emanymton said:


> Don't use the to charge protesters then you stupid fucking cunt.



TBH, that's pretty much the whole point of having mounted police available at demonstrations etc, as I'm sure most have experienced. There are so many examples of this they're too numerous to list, which is why PC Rees' complaint is more than a little disingenuous.

Also, shouldn't the horse be called Rocinante, not Quixote?


----------



## emanymton (Nov 7, 2015)

andysays said:


> TBH, that's pretty much the whole point of having mounted police available at demonstrations etc, as I'm sure most have experienced. There are so many examples of this they're too numerous to list, which is why PC Rees' complaint is more than a little disingenuous.
> 
> Also, shouldn't the horse be called Rocinante, not Quixote?


This is probably a good time to share this story. A friend of mine was walking along the street one day, when a horse went  galloping past her, this was followed by copper on a horse. A minute latter another copper went past on foot, followed by a gang of kids all pointing and laughing at them.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 7, 2015)

It's so obvious that they are trying to manipulate the sentiments of animal lovers, pathetic.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2015)

if you took an animal to a protest, things turned violent and your animal kicked off, they'd kill it. Then they'd send you to chokey and the press would be ram-packed with devildog horror tales


----------



## J Ed (Nov 7, 2015)

RIP Riot Dog


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 7, 2015)

emanymton said:


> This is probably a good time to share this story. A friend of mine was walking along the street one day, when a horse went  galloping past her, this was followed by copper on a horse. A minute latter another copper went past on foot, followed by a gang of kids all pointing and laughing at them.


----------



## andysays (Nov 7, 2015)

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the G choose to commemorate the upcoming 200th anniverary of the Peterloo Massacre by focussing on any injuries to horses used by the various cavalry units. Suggested headline


> Shocking acts of cruelty to animals perpetrated by the mob...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 7, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> "...Marbles rolled under hoofs...darts found embedded in saddles...fistfuls of Iceland mince lobbed by sneering louts...jumpers for goalposts...samurai swords...£20 and a packed lunch..."



You forgot "billiard balls filled with ammonia".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 7, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Where's that video of a bunch of mounted filth charging into a defenceless crowd of people a couple of years back?



Or the one of the horse cop falling out of his saddle (then making out that the two blokes who tried to help him,had actually pulled him off the horse).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 7, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Don't use the to charge protesters then you stupid fucking cunt.



Back at Wapping, it wasn't charges that were the worst (you could usually get away from the worst of the carnage or, because they almost always charged lined abreast, you could duck and cover until they'd passed by), it was when you got 3-4 mounties using the body of their horse as a weapon, to crush people up against walls or other objects or put them in line for a kick.
I've been savaged several times by some Urbanites for having developed a solution for this involving a Marigold glove, some Colman's mustard and the horse's arse.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 7, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Back at Wapping, it wasn't charges that were the worst (you could usually get away from the worst of the carnage or, because they almost always charged lined abreast, you could duck and cover until they'd passed by), it was when you got 3-4 mounties using the body of their horse as a weapon, to crush people up against walls or other objects or put them in line for a kick.
> I've been savaged several times by some Urbanites for having developed a solution for this involving a Marigold glove, some Colman's mustard and the horse's arse.



Interestingly, the shield wall tactics used today's coppers are drawn from similar tactics used by warriors in Saxon times. The tactic of the 'snatch squad' is also drawn from that period when infantry would try and break down said shield wall by grabbing people out of it. Using a horse as a living weapon was standard among cavalry troops at one time. Hence the 'square' formation used by infantry to defend against cavalry. The small problem being that, in a modern riot, today's anarchists would probably spend too much time arguing about what shape to form up in instead of actually forming anything.


----------



## rekil (Nov 9, 2015)

Painful stuff by Tim Jonze.

Why Jeremy Corbyn is the Mark E Smith of politics



> Reopening the coal mines? Decommissioning the army? Like a bunch of Leeds art-school grads recording an angular missive about Ludwig Wittgenstein and post-war architecture in a bedsit, Corbyn has never cared if only 57 people buy it because he appreciates that those 57 people are really, really into it. He wants to be the kind of politician of whom people might say, 30 years down the line: “Sure, hardly anybody voted for him, but those who did all went on to form their own leftwing political party.”


----------



## J Ed (Nov 9, 2015)

It doesn't matter if it makes sense, as long as it defends the status quo and anything that threatens it the Graunid will print it.


----------



## Flavour (Nov 9, 2015)

jesus that's sickening . infamous.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 9, 2015)

What utter wank.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 10, 2015)

you might have got a degree but you wont get a man 

The dating gap: why the odds are stacked against female graduates


----------



## killer b (Nov 10, 2015)

_She is mainly attracted to Oxbridge graduates, she says with a small laugh._

I know what you mean, me too.


----------



## killer b (Nov 10, 2015)

There's actually some quite interesting stuff in that article, mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 10, 2015)

i think the lot of you are masochists, tormenting yourselves with liberal shite.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 10, 2015)

killer b said:


> There's actually some quite interesting stuff in that article, mind.


I'm fairly sure I've read it before, a week or two ago, written by someone else.


----------



## killer b (Nov 10, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm fairly sure I've read it before, a week or two ago, written by someone else.


Its a pumped up book review, so that's totally possible.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 11, 2015)

I just don't know where to start with that article, other than to put it in the bin.


----------



## Zabo (Nov 12, 2015)

I was going to give this a thread of its own because the poem is brilliant but... Only the fucking Guardian could discuss a poem by Shelley without showing the poem - spineless bastards. The comments, are as usual, better than the article.

Lost Shelley poem execrating  'rank corruption' of  ruling class made public

To the rescue comes the Indy

Here is the lost Percy Shelley poem The Existing State of Things in full

And here's a good article by Michael Rosen on the Shelley poem.

Michael Rosen: Shelley's Revolutionary Poem - hidden away, waiting for its numbers to come up


----------



## brogdale (Nov 13, 2015)

I shit you not.
*Let’s move to Soho, central London*


> The case against Drunks urinating on your doorstep at night. *Rampant gentrification means your favourite greasy spoon won’t be there in the morning.* If you have a family, your child will never learn to climb a tree.



Trolling twats.


----------



## belboid (Nov 14, 2015)

Where's the fucking Guide gone??


----------



## 8115 (Nov 14, 2015)

Belushi said:


> you might have got a degree but you wont get a man
> 
> The dating gap: why the odds are stacked against female graduates


I read that this week, it was the last lifestyle straw for me. Me and the Guardian have parted ways, even Ottolenghi won't be able to tempt me back. Subtext, you unfeminine overeducated women, well now you won't get a man. Bleuchh.


----------



## JimW (Nov 14, 2015)

belboid said:


> Where's the fucking Guide gone??


Printing problems apparently. Beginning of the end?


----------



## stavros (Nov 14, 2015)

JimW said:


> Printing problems apparently. Beginning of the end?



It better well be. I almost went back to the newsagent this morning to say he'd forgotten to add it before I found the piss-weak TV guide in amongst the ad bunf. Only the post-6pm schedules for channels 1 to 5, BBC3, BBC4, More4 and Murdoch Atlantic.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 14, 2015)

stavros said:


> It better well be. I almost went back to the newsagent this morning to say he'd forgotten to add it before I found the piss-weak TV guide in amongst the ad bunf. Only the post-6pm schedules for channels 1 to 5, BBC3, BBC4, More4 and Murdoch Atlantic.


If it's this bad now, just imagine how it would be under a Corbyn adminitration - three day week, internet rationing, texting by candlelight, columnists having to hang around street corners panhandling half-baked opinions for pennies...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 14, 2015)

JimW said:


> Printing problems apparently. Beginning of the end?


 THE RAPTURE


----------



## Zabo (Nov 16, 2015)

The Indy gloats. 

"A national newspaper ditched its listings and popular culture supplement this weekend due to last-minute concern over the use of Nazi imagery in its cover art."

The Guardian has ditched its supplement over concern of the use of Nazi imagery


----------



## pinkychukkles (Nov 16, 2015)

Latest clickbait: The night I partied with John Lennon or as a comment BTL says, ought to be titled "The Night I Stood Next To A Pool Table And Looked At John Lennon".


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> If it's this bad now, just imagine how it would be under a Corbyn adminitration - three day week, internet rationing, texting by candlelight, columnists having to hang around street corners panhandling half-baked opinions for pennies...


life only gets that good under the tories


----------



## Celyn (Nov 16, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> ...columnists having to hang around street corners panhandling half-baked opinions for pennies...



Holding up sad cardboard signs saying "will fulminate for food".


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2015)

belboid said:


> Where's the fucking Guide gone??


i didn't think you actually bought it.


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 16, 2015)

Y'know things are shit with the Gruaniad when the only reasonably good thing left about it (the culture guide) doesn't get printed and people are upset about it


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> Y'know things are shit with the Gruaniad when the only reasonably good thing left about it (the culture guide) doesn't get printed and people are upset about it


i beg to differ, field tests show that the guardian is the perfect size for the standard cat litter tray and more absorbent than socialist worker, the previous winner in that category: as well as more readily available than the trotskyite publication.


----------



## killer b (Nov 16, 2015)

has anyone managed to source an image of the nazi cover yet?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2015)

killer b said:


> has anyone managed to source an image of the nazi cover yet?


managed to source? i see that you've inculcated management & media speak for 'get hold of' or 'obtain'.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 16, 2015)

killer b said:


> has anyone managed to source an image of the nazi cover yet?


What event/production was the cover of the guide supposedly illustrating?


----------



## killer b (Nov 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> What event/production was the cover of the guide supposedly illustrating?


 _a new TV adaption of The Man in the High Castle, _apparently.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> What event/production was the cover of the guide supposedly illustrating?


I take it you didn't read the article about it then?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2015)

More fuckwittery:

How Unilever was left off George Monbiot’s list of palm oil ‘laggards’ | Chris Elliott


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> More fuckwittery:
> 
> How Unilever was left off George Monbiot’s list of palm oil ‘laggards’ | Chris Elliott


i think this thread probably provides 10% of guardian online traffick.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2015)

killer b said:


> _a new TV adaption of The Man in the High Castle, _apparently.


quick on the uptake, the pilot was last month and its been running for three weeks already


----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 16, 2015)

Every half rate hack employed by them wading in to the Paris attacks on CiF


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 16, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Every half rate hack employed by them wading in to the Paris attacks on CiF


should be cifa, then 'comment is fucking awful'


----------



## J Ed (Nov 18, 2015)

WTF?

Behaviour management in the classroom: A masterclass with Educating Essex’s Mr Drew

A £70 behaviour management lecture for teachers ran by the Guardian? They really are getting desperate for new ways to drum up cash.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> quick on the uptake, the pilot was last month and its been running for three weeks already


Last month - or January. Someone even started a thread at the time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Last month - or January. Someone even started a thread at the time.


was it that long from pilot to series? felt quicker....regardless, its good.


----------



## belboid (Nov 18, 2015)

It is only getting a full release on friday, only the second episode is out so far.  It is bizarre that Amazon released the second episode a month before bothering with the rest.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2015)

J Ed said:


> WTF?
> 
> Behaviour management in the classroom: A masterclass with Educating Essex’s Mr Drew
> 
> A £70 behaviour management lecture for teachers ran by the Guardian? They really are getting desperate for new ways to drum up cash.


Pretty good value for money, that.
I've been to a couple of seminar/conferences there about children's books and reading and they've been well run, informative and useful.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 20, 2015)

A NATION MOURNS:

Corbyn critic Robert Webb announces he has left Labour


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 20, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> A NATION MOURNS:
> 
> Corbyn critic Robert Webb announces he has left Labour



Guardianistas all over Islington sobbed into their cappuccinos.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2015)

Hello, i'm Robert Webb (yes, _the other one_) - i'm a Corbyn critic.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 21, 2015)

Works on many levels:

A letter to … My godson, with whom I’ve decided to sever ties


----------



## Belushi (Nov 21, 2015)

what a prick


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 21, 2015)

Secret Teacher: schools turn a blind eye to bad managers as long as they hit targets



> When I worked in the private sector, promotion to managerial positions was a robust and difficult process. We weren’t just interviewed or observed doing our job, we had role-play activities and different scenarios to handle. The interviewing process for the final job I did involved conducting a performance management review with an employee who was failing in their person management. *Even when I took the job, I was drilled within an inch of my life on Belbin and Myers-Briggs*.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 21, 2015)

Belushi said:


> what a prick



What a _Guardianista_.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 21, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Works on many levels:
> 
> A letter to … My godson, with whom I’ve decided to sever ties




Comments disabled lol


----------



## Belushi (Nov 22, 2015)

First Robert Webb now Barbara Ellen; when do they relaunch the SDP?

Since when was ‘moderate’ a term of abuse? | Barbara Ellen


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> First Robert Webb now Barbara Ellen; when do they relaunch the SDP?
> 
> Since when was ‘moderate’ a term of abuse? | Barbara Ellen



Ah, the flight of the fauxcalists. Will they all start migrating to the right by the winter?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2015)

> After this debacle, I’ve got a new sneaking respect for the oft-maligned New Labour bruisers (Blair, Brown, Campbell, Johnson, Blunkett, et al)



this is a nice line. It implies that during the new labour years she voted labour with gritted teeth. Bullshit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> First Robert Webb now Barbara Ellen; when do they relaunch the SDP?
> 
> Since when was ‘moderate’ a term of abuse? | Barbara Ellen


i suspect 'guardian journalist' has been a term of abuse for rather longer than 'moderate' has.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 22, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i suspect 'guardian journalist' has been a term of abuse for rather longer than 'moderate' has.



TBF to the Graun, Ellen's dismal, never ending 'column' has always been in the Observer i think , + always utterly inane and self serving .


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 22, 2015)

cantsin said:


> TBF to the Graun, Ellen's dismal, never ending 'column' has always been in the Observer i think , + always utterly inane and self serving .


and the earliest use of the term 'observer journalist' as a pejorative i am aware of dates from the 1790s.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> First Robert Webb now Barbara Ellen; when do they relaunch the SDP?
> 
> Since when was ‘moderate’ a term of abuse? | Barbara Ellen



dark, dark days - who's the next meejah luvvy to flounce do we think ? 

JK Rowling has got to be a contender ? Eddie izzard ? ( might be being unfair to him )


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

cantsin said:


> TBF to the Graun, Ellen's dismal, never ending 'column' has always been in the Observer i think , + always utterly inane and self serving .


Always graced by a pic of her from 1986. Tell the truth to the people moderates!


----------



## cantsin (Nov 22, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Always graced by a pic of her from 1986. Tell the truth to the people moderates!



she used to do this really, really piss poor (one off ?) fanzine 'Gary Linekers Legs ' ( as well as working at NME) when i was involved in a Spurs supporters/fanzines  vs Robert Maxwell takeover campaign early 90's (TISA)  - appeared to be a nice enough person , but seemed to be constantly playing out this ditzy / banal persona the whole time....to see her roll that out into a lifestyle column for 2 decades after that was perplexing....last time i read it it just felt like it needed putting out of it's misery, and that must have been 5 yrs ago.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

cantsin said:


> she used to do this really, really piss poor (one off ?) fanzine 'Gary Linekers Legs ' ( as well as working at NME) when i was involved in a Spurs supporters/fanzines  vs Robert Maxwell takeover campaign early 90's (TISA)  - appeared to be a nice enough person , but seemed to be constantly playing out this ditzy / banal persona the whole time....to see her roll that out into a lifestyle column for 2 decades after that was perplexing....last time i read it it just felt like it needed putting out of it's misery, and that must have been 5 yrs ago.


She was the bargain-basement Burchill. Christ the NME was a dreadful rag.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

I do fondly recall her line about the Jam being like "watching paint dry in an old people's home".


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

cantsin said:


> she used to do this really, really piss poor (one off ?) fanzine 'Gary Linekers Legs ' ( as well as working at NME) when i was involved in a Spurs supporters/fanzines  vs Robert Maxwell takeover campaign early 90's (TISA)  - appeared to be a nice enough person , but seemed to be constantly playing out this ditzy / banal persona the whole time....to see her roll that out into a lifestyle column for 2 decades after that  was perplexing....last time i read it it just felt like it needed putting out of it's misery, and that must have been 5 yrs ago.


The i wasn't posh i just wrote for the nme as a teenager chesty proddyness.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> She was the bargain-basement Burchill. Christ the NME was a dreadful rag.


I think you may have 20 years mixed up with 2 years.


----------



## 8den (Nov 22, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Works on many levels:
> 
> A letter to … My godson, with whom I’ve decided to sever ties



I tried reading that simply for the LoLs but I gave up; thinking, "Why is he writing this, and why the suffering fuck did they publish it"....


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> She was the bargain-basement Burchill. Christ the NME was a dreadful rag.


Also, it was brilliant.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Also, it was brilliant.


It was a piece of shit.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> It was a piece of shit.


Millions of words over a decade cannot just be this?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 22, 2015)

I found a lot of great new and old music thanks to the NME, Melody Maker and Sounds


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

55p -  new bands.  What's not to like


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Millions of words over a decade cannot just be this?


Yeah, you'd think, wouldn't you.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> 55p -  new bands.  What's not to like


No good music was created after 1974.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> No good music was created after 1974.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Yeah, you'd think, wouldn't you.


Don't out me mate.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> No good music was created after 1974.



Yeah?


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Don't out me mate.


Swells? Is that you? I thought you were dead.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> No good music was created after 1974.



Ya fucken Proggy!


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ya fucken Proggy!


PROGGING INTENSIFIES


----------



## NoXion (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> No good music was created after 1974.



There are members of every generation who feel something like that; feeling that they are the special ones who get to be around at that unique point in history when culture dies. 

Problem is, it's complete bollocks. This can be proven by simply asking different people who hold such opinions the precise decade in which music supposedly went to shit. The answers always correlate with either age or artistic taste, and there is no universal objective standard.

I used to think along similar lines. I used to think that music got crap after the early 2000s. But then I grew up a bit and discovered artists who weren't being played to death on crappy commercial radio stations like some form of psychological torture. In the process my tastes and musical horizons broadened, and in a very small way I became a slightly better person for it.

Now I realise that you may not have been entirely serious, but that kind of attitude does bother me, and there are people who take such positions seriously. But I honestly think that such people are missing out on music that they would greatly enjoy.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 22, 2015)

i assumed Idris2002  was joking too.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 22, 2015)

Dance monkeys dance


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 22, 2015)

i love monkeydance - it's the sound of 2016! the Guardian are going to catch up with by August and do an article on it in The Guide


----------



## killer b (Nov 22, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> i assumed Idris2002  was joking too.


Of course. 1972 was the final good music year.


----------



## stavros (Nov 22, 2015)

At least The Guide was back this week after last week's fuck-up.


----------



## killer b (Nov 22, 2015)

Be honest, the guide has been shit for years too.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 22, 2015)

killer b said:


> Be honest, the guide has been shit for years too.


Apart from Pip 's contributions of course


----------



## xenon (Nov 22, 2015)

This thread is wank.


----------



## xenon (Nov 22, 2015)

Still wank. TBF.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 22, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> No good music was created after 1974.


Well, say what you will about the Heath government, but Ted's Cabinet could bang out a fair old tune or two


----------



## J Ed (Nov 23, 2015)

The future’s at stake: the left must show it could create an iPad | Zoe Williams

I didn't know whether to post this one in here or whether it should have gone in the Workers' Girder thread as a possible task for the Workers' Bomb engineers over in Proletarian Democracy


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 23, 2015)

Has she not heard of Cybersyn?


----------



## JimW (Nov 23, 2015)

The tablet is an inherently bourgeois form, exacerbating the atomisation of the individual-as-consumer. PD should continue our work on room-sized super computers with proper blinking lights and tape reels.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 23, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Has she not heard of Cybersyn?



She seems entirely unaware of the fact that the infrastructure that allows private corporations like google, Microsoft and Apple to make huge profits was made by the state so I'm going to go with no.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 23, 2015)

JimW said:


> The tablet is an inherently bourgeois form, exacerbating the atomisation of the individual-as-consumer. PD should continue our work on room-sized super computers with proper blinking lights and tape reels.


Yeah, whatevs, grandad.


----------



## NoXion (Nov 23, 2015)

The production of something as complex as a tablet computer is inherently a collective endeavour, from design to manufacture to distribution. It's just that under capitalism the vast majority of those involved don't receive the full value of their labour, and pricks like Steve Jobs are given the credit by marketing twats for ideas they pinched from elsewhere.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

child slave miners. Thats all I'm saying.


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

J Ed said:


> She seems entirely unaware of the fact that *the infrastructure that allows private corporations like google, Microsoft and Apple to make huge profits was made by the state* so I'm going to go with no.


She makes that very point half way through the article


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> She makes that very point half way through the article


yeh but you have to be a masochist to get that far


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but you have to be a masochist to get that far


Not really.  Seems pretty silly to cite an article as an example of crapness when it contains the very points you are criticising it for not containing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 23, 2015)

JimW said:


> The tablet is an inherently bourgeois form, exacerbating the atomisation of the individual-as-consumer. PD should continue our work on room-sized super computers with proper blinking lights and tape reels.


And a side-room especially for coding punch-cards.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> She makes that very point half way through the article



That's fair, I kind of assumed that it would be impossible to write a whole article with that premise while also making that point and I couldn't make it all the way through. I was wrong


----------



## NoXion (Nov 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> child slave miners. Thats all I'm saying.



Would you mind saying a little bit more? Because I don't quite follow you here.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 23, 2015)

NoXion said:


> Would you mind saying a little bit more? Because I don't quite follow you here.


He's referring to where the rare earth minerals in your tablet (and my mobile phone) come from.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2015)

apologies for the monbiotics link but also: tantalum


----------



## andysays (Nov 23, 2015)

Are yoga classes just bad cultural appropriation?

More angst-ridden Guardianista navel gazing...


----------



## JimW (Nov 23, 2015)

andysays said:


> Are yoga classes just bad cultural appropriation?
> 
> More angst-ridden Guardianista navel gazing...





> Yoga has been stretched into a new entity, one far removed from the cultural circumstances that first spawned.


How unlike any other cultural practice anywhere ever then. Fucking hell.


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

andysays said:


> Are yoga classes just bad cultural appropriation?
> 
> More angst-ridden Guardianista navel gazing...


the woman who (sort of) defended the Canadian protest was actually kind of interesting.


----------



## andysays (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> the woman who (sort of) defended the Canadian protest was actually kind of interesting.



Interesting, but still containing some real howlers like this one


> I’d rather take my yogic lead from women like Jessamyn Stanley– fat, black, body-positive and the antithesis of the willowy white women Instagram club



Even if we accept her characterisation of yoga as dominated by "willowy white women", is yoga done by a fat, black, body-positive (whatever that means) woman any less cultural appropriation?


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

andysays said:


> Interesting, but still containing some real howlers like this one
> 
> 
> Even if we accept her characterisation of yoga as dominated by "willowy white women", is yoga done by a fat, black, body-positive (whatever that means) woman any less cultural appropriation?


she isn't really bothered about 'cultural appropriation,'  but about it being a thing all for skinny middle-class white women, the point of choosing to mention the 'fat, black' woman is simply about her being the antithesis of the dominant picture of a yoga practitioner. The more interesting part of her piece comes after that tho.


----------



## andysays (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> she isn't really bothered about 'cultural appropriation,'  but about it being a thing all for skinny middle-class white women, the point of choosing to mention the 'fat, black' woman is simply about her being the antithesis of the dominant picture of a yoga practitioner. The more interesting part of her piece comes after that tho.



Well, given that the article asks if yoga is cultural appropriation and was inspired by a protest by some students who declared that it was*, it might have been hoped that she would spend at least some of her time addressing that issue, rather than simply creating this strawman of it being all for "skinny middle-class white women" which she could then pull apart.

Would you like to be more specific about what you thought was interesting and why?

* and I'll confess that until I read this article I hadn't heard about the protest and had never considered if yoga classes might be cultural appropriation.


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

andysays said:


> Well, given that the article asks if yoga is cultural appropriation and was inspired by a protest by some students who declared that it was*, it might have been hoped that she would spend at least some of her time addressing that issue, rather than simply creating this strawman of it being all for "skinny middle-class white women" which she could then pull apart.
> 
> Would you like to be more specific about what you thought was interesting and why?
> 
> * and I'll confess that until I read this article I hadn't heard about the protest and had never considered if yoga classes might be cultural appropriation.


Are you being deliberately obtuse?  If you read the article it is pretty clear. You should ask yourself why these “students do thing on campus” stories fascinate you so much.


----------



## andysays (Nov 23, 2015)

belboid said:


> Are you being deliberately obtuse?  If you read the article it is pretty clear. You should ask yourself why these “students do thing on campus” stories fascinate you so much.



I was attracted to the story by the headline (see my post above) while reading something else on the site.

The fact that the story originates in some students doing something on campus is part of the story, but not the whole of it. For what it's worth, I'm happy for the students to protest about something they feel strongly about, even though I think the issue they've chosen is rather ridiculous.

You might better ask why the G has chosen to commission two people to write an opinion piece inspired by a minor incident at the Centre for Students with Disabilities in Ottawa (an incident which I suspect most of their readers would never have known about were it not for this article), and why one of those writers has chosen to go off on a strawman-bashing meander about how the face of yoga is now blonde etc (not if the photos which accompany the story are typical, BTW) and she personally finds a fat black woman more inspiring.


----------



## stavros (Nov 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Be honest, the guide has been shit for years too.



I've only gone back the Graun recently though, so I'll take your word for it. It suits me in terms of having all the TV listings I want, particularly as I'm very non-Guardian-ish by not having a smart phone.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 23, 2015)

stavros said:


> I've only gone back the Graun recently though, so I'll take your word for it. It suits me in terms of having all the TV listings I want, particularly as I'm very non-Guardian-ish by not having a smart phone.



I bet you don't drink cappuccinos, wear a Palestinian scarf or live in Islington either.

You are therefore unworthy to peruse the mighty Grauniad, Good Sir.


----------



## stavros (Nov 23, 2015)

Bakunin said:


> I bet you don't drink cappuccinos, wear a Palestinian scarf or live in Islington either.



You're right on all three counts, although I do wear flip-flops if that counts for anything.


----------



## belboid (Nov 23, 2015)

andysays said:


> I was attracted to the story by the headline (see my post above) while reading something else on the site.
> 
> The fact that the story originates in some students doing something on campus is part of the story, but not the whole of it. For what it's worth, I'm happy for the students to protest about something they feel strongly about, even though I think the issue they've chosen is rather ridiculous.
> 
> You might better ask why the G has chosen to commission two people to write an opinion piece inspired by a minor incident at the Centre for Students with Disabilities in Ottawa (an incident which I suspect most of their readers would never have known about were it not for this article), and why one of those writers has chosen to go off on a strawman-bashing meander about how the face of yoga is now blonde etc (not if the photos which accompany the story are typical, BTW) and she personally finds a fat black woman more inspiring.


So your main point is exactly the same as that of the second commentator. And a quick google image search for 'yoga' will show you why there is no straw man invoked.


----------



## machine cat (Nov 25, 2015)

Booze 'n' snooze: surviving my first adult sleepover



> Do hark back to your childhood with ghost stories, childhood films, and facemasks.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 25, 2015)

machine cat said:


> Booze 'n' snooze: surviving my first adult sleepover


I think I now understand why grenades were invented.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2015)

yeah when I've pulled an all nighter with mates, food is strangely absent from proceedings...


----------



## J Ed (Nov 26, 2015)

Craig Murray  » Blog Archive   » Update: The Guardian’s Anti Corbyn Campaign Plumbs New Depths



> Watching live, I too did not think that John McDonnell’s Chairman Mao joke was wise, because of the obvious misrepresentation to which it was open in the right wing press. But in fact while the openly right wing media all have a go, they all respect the basic tenets of journalism by fairly reflecting both the content and the context of what Corbyn said:
> 
> Daily Telegraph
> 
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 26, 2015)

Filth

Front page filth.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 26, 2015)

I missed this on the end though:

“We have to jointly seize this opportunity to broaden the coalition that is needed to defeat Isis. The departure of Bashar al-Assad is essential in order to bring peace to Syria and justice to the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children he has tortured and killed in the worst humanitarian crisis for decades, but it is not a prerequisite for military action against Isil.”


----------



## J Ed (Nov 28, 2015)




----------



## J Ed (Nov 28, 2015)

I have to say that if multiple conversations I was having with non-English speakers were dependent on the quality of my Bengali I would really struggle to find out how long someone had been living in Oldham, several people on the twitter thread seem to have thought the same thing. The racists are lapping it up though, and I suppose that was her intended audience.


----------



## rekil (Nov 28, 2015)

I like her follow up.

"My lodger is Syrian."

The new must-have accessory for guardianistas.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 28, 2015)

copliker said:


> I like her follow up.
> 
> "My lodger is Syrian."



Almost Trumpesque in its stupidity, not unlike her original comment. Next she'll be telling us about thousands and thousands of Oldham residents cheering on 9/11.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 28, 2015)

There are, of course, no racist landlords.


----------



## stavros (Nov 28, 2015)

"Some of my best friends are black Muslim lesbians."


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 28, 2015)

copliker said:


> I like her follow up.
> 
> "My lodger is Syrian."
> 
> The new must-have accessory for guardianistas.



Do they shop at the Calais jungle for those, then?


----------



## J Ed (Nov 28, 2015)

Let's face it - she saw large groups of Bangladeshis, maybe spoke with some people who TOLD her that 'them lot don't speak English' and went on twitter to slag them off and delegitimise the Labour vote. Nasty.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 28, 2015)

stavros said:


> "Some of my best friends are black Muslim lesbians."



_ and by no means all of them want to destroy the west. . .


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2015)




----------



## belboid (Dec 5, 2015)

I know this isn't really the place to be nice about the Grauniad, but the cryptic crossword is quite good today.

Cryptic crossword No 26,746


----------



## stavros (Dec 7, 2015)

I can't find a link now, but earlier today I read an article on their website which to illustrate the power usage of something or other they gave it as equivalent to charging 18 ipads, as if this were as everyday for everyone as, say, boiling a kettle.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 9, 2015)

Grabbed this, its out of context but fuck it


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 9, 2015)

Don’t forget the Lib Dems. The party was also split over Syria | David Boyle


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 9, 2015)

Oh my...

It’s true – being handsome is a living hell | Rupert Myers


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 9, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Oh my...
> 
> It’s true – being handsome is a living hell | Rupert Myers


it's ruined my life


----------



## Artaxerxes (Dec 9, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> it's ruined my life



Its a struggle I know


----------



## emanymton (Dec 9, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Oh my...
> 
> It’s true – being handsome is a living hell | Rupert Myers


I must be gorgeous then. 

I'm really not by the way.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2015)

Julie Bindels done a piece on why we should be ashamed of ourselves rather than pointing the finger at Tyson Fury. Why? because boxing is a savage brutal sport and middle class viewers of it can't judge working class sports men by their standards cos they don't know any better.

Think Tyson Fury’s views are offensive? Boxing is worse | Julie Bindel


----------



## BigMoaner (Dec 11, 2015)

can you imagine how middle class the guardian newsroom is. it must be breathtaking, a wonder in itself. the carefully prepared salads for lunch with exotic ethically sourced vegetables, the little fold up _2-grand_ bikes, the scruffy chinos and purposefully scruffy hair, the natter of north london schools, leather satchels, "drinks", designs for living rooms, supper, private schools.


----------



## captainmission (Dec 11, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> can you imagine how middle class the guardian newsroom is. it must be breathtaking, a wonder in itself. the carefully prepared salads for lunch with exotic ethically sourced vegetables, the little fold up 2-grand bikes, the scruffy chinos and purposefully scruffy hair, the natter of north london schools, leather satchels, "drinks", designs for living rooms, supper, private schools.



Something like this i imgaine


----------



## Nylock (Dec 11, 2015)

Artaxerxes said:


> Oh my...
> 
> It’s true – being handsome is a living hell | Rupert Myers


I managed the opening paragraph to that dreck before I closed the tab...


----------



## Indeliblelink (Dec 11, 2015)

I’ve eaten roadkill badger and squirrel, but dolphin? No thanks


----------



## NoXion (Dec 11, 2015)

Whereas I'll try anything if it bleeds.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 11, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Julie Bindels done a piece on why we should be ashamed of ourselves rather than pointing the finger at Tyson Fury. Why? because boxing is a savage brutal sport and middle class viewers of it can't judge working class sports men by their standards cos they don't know any better.
> 
> Think Tyson Fury’s views are offensive? Boxing is worse | Julie Bindel


why no mention of nice frank bruno in that article?


----------



## Mr Smin (Dec 11, 2015)

I've no doubt Eva Lott passed a rigorous selection process to get her column.


----------



## BigMoaner (Dec 11, 2015)

Apart from long form journalism, newspapers are pointless


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 11, 2015)

My teenage son can’t talk to girls


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 11, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> can you imagine how middle class the guardian newsroom is.


 
TBF, I imagine _most_ newsrooms are just as obnoxiously bourgeois.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2015)

Erm...
How do we stop UK publishing being so posh and white?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 13, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Erm...
> How do we stop UK publishing being so posh and white?


 
I saw the headline yesterday and was going to post it up here, but then I read through it and there was some pretty sensible stuff in it - bar the hand-wringy, pasty-chopsed arts centre management liberals promising to read more books by famous 'exotic' writers, which did seem to undermine the point being made. All a bit canapes-at-chez-Bernstein


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 15, 2015)

monbiot said:
			
		

> Most people align themselves with the status quo, whether it be democracy, monarchy, Stalinism, nazism, care for the living planet or a carnival of ruin


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 15, 2015)

Down, down, deederum down


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2015)

How to eat: fish finger sandwiches


----------



## fishfinger (Dec 15, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> How to eat: fish finger sandwiches


Tartare fucking sauce


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2015)

I don't mind them articles too much, we've debated similar topics with at least as much earnestness here. That one is terribly written though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2015)

killer b said:


> I don't mind them articles too much, we've debated similar topics with at least as much earnestness here. That one is terribly written though.


tony naylor. he used to do techno reviews for muzik


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2015)

fuck. I assumed it was an intern.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2015)

killer b said:


> fuck. I assumed it was an intern.


nah, he writes loads of foodie stuff. he does those supermarket product compare reviews


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 15, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> nah, he writes loads of foodie stuff. he does those supermarket product compare reviews


Living the dream


----------



## Sue (Dec 15, 2015)

fishfinger said:


> Tartare fucking sauce


(((fishfinger)))


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Dec 16, 2015)

fishfinger said:


> Tartare fucking sauce



Not just tartare sauce but also the dissing of salad cream!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Sue (Dec 16, 2015)

Utter bilge but at least it's *seasonal* utter bilge.

Why is ‘yellowface’ wrong yet pantomime dames are OK? | Helen Lewis


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 16, 2015)

surely a man/woman in drag is nowhere near in comparison to someone blacking up or slanting their eyes to impersonate a chinese person??


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2015)

Sue said:


> Utter bilge but at least it's *seasonal* utter bilge.
> 
> Why is ‘yellowface’ wrong yet pantomime dames are OK? | Helen Lewis


couldn't make it past the backhanded disrespect towards the chuckle brothers. I just hope Barry keeps that article away from Paul, he's easily needled by liberals when they attack his art rather than his politics


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 16, 2015)

Corbyn’s Christmas card? Now there’s a threat to national security | Jonathan Jones

What the fuck is he on about? He's been hard at the Christmas booze surely.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 16, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Corbyn’s Christmas card? Now there’s a threat to national security | Jonathan Jones
> 
> What the fuck is he on about? He's been hard at the Christmas booze surely.



At first I thought it was an attempt at satirising the sort of article you might find in... um... The Guardian. Being that the piece is actually _in _the Guardian, however, I'm left feeling slightly unsure. It's like Tony Blair doing an impression of Tony Blair. It could be a really clever joke they're playing, with multiple levels of irony working on top of each other - a _meta_-satire. Or he's just pissed.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 16, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Corbyn’s Christmas card? Now there’s a threat to national security | Jonathan Jones
> 
> What the fuck is he on about? He's been hard at the Christmas booze surely.



Jones has to be on his way out, i think a lot of that lot are, washed up liberal bores now looking well out of their depth - suspect some ViceBuzzification driven purges will come.


----------



## belboid (Dec 16, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> At first I thought it was an attempt at satirising the sort of article you might find in... um... The Guardian. Being that the piece is actually _in _the Guardian, however, I'm left feeling slightly unsure. It's like Tony Blair doing an impression of Tony Blair. It could be a really clever joke they're playing, with multiple levels of irony working on top of each other - a _meta_-satire. Or he's just pissed.


There's a similar article in the Mail - I think that's satire (as well??), if so, it's rather better at it. Or is even dumber - The hidden meaning of Comrade Corbyn's Christmas card


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 16, 2015)

belboid said:


> There's a similar article in the Mail - I think that's satire (as well??), if so, it's rather better at it. Or is even dumber - The hidden meaning of Comrade Corbyn's Christmas card



Maybe this article is satirising the Guardian's piece, and the Guardian will in turn have to satirise the Mail, ad infinitum. An everlasting, self-reinforcing feedback loop will thus be created, churning out larger and larger volumes of crap, Corbyn Christmas card-based journalism.


----------



## Libertad (Dec 16, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Maybe this article is satirising the Guardian's piece, and the Guardian will in turn have to satirise the Mail, ad infinitum. An everlasting, self-reinforcing feedback loop will thus be created, churning out larger and larger volumes of crap, Corbyn Christmas card-based journalism.



A copy circle jerk.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2015)

so santa is a bit like corbyn? I believe santa would be affronted by this. He generally keeps his hands clean of politics.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 16, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> so santa is a bit like corbyn? I believe santa would be affronted by this. He generally keeps his hands clean of politics.


Tell that to the elves who suffered a lockout for attempting to strike for better pay and conditions


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 16, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Tell that to the elves who suffered a lockout for attempting to strike for better pay and conditions


I suspect Santa doesn't live in the North Pole, but Guangzhou  those poor elves.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2015)

the north pole is one giant SEZ


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 17, 2015)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 18, 2015)

I see they have a new star columnist:

Peace in Syria is vital. And it’s within our grasp | Mohammad Javad Zarif


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 19, 2015)

Hitler one ball shocker exclusive.

Hitler really did have only one testicle, German researcher claims


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 19, 2015)

it has yet to be confirmed wether the other one is in the albert hall


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> it has yet to be confirmed wether the other one is in the albert hall



And we're still in the dark as to the question of whether Himmler had something similar.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 19, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> And we're still in the dark as to the question of whether Himmler had something similar.


Bonehill has none still


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 19, 2015)

theres a version I read on google that claims the line 'stalin was three ballin' which while anatomically impossible also sounds like a modern addition cos I never heard that line. There might be disputes as to which famous hall the fuhrers missing gonad resided at depending on where in the country you lived but I remember no talk of joe having 3.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> 'stalin was three ballin' which while anatomically impossible



The original Trivial Pursuit set had "polyorchidism" as the subject of one of the questions.

It also had "diphallic terata" which is something that you don't want to image search.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 19, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It also had "diphallic terata" which is something that you don't want to image search.



Hence the aimed-at-a-niche-market, adult-themed, never-made Bond movie _Diphallic Teratanother Day_


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

Only Saudi Arabia can defeat Isis | Nawaf Obaid

Unbelievable apologism for the saudi state here.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

> Isis’s adherence to the Kharijite ideology is not the only reason it is not a true Salafi movement; it has also committed an act of disobedience that effectively nullifies its Salafi pretenses. In original Islamic scriptures and practice, the highest authority is the “guardian” of the _ummah_, (_wali al amr_). All religious, political and military powers are concentrated under this authority, which Saudi Arabia’s system best exemplifies in the modern world. In other words, King Salman’s legitimacy to rule is contingent on him being first and foremost the _wali al amr_ of the people, and in return the people show their acceptance of his rule by proclaiming him as their ruler. This proclamation (_bay’ah_) is a contract between the ruler and the ruled in which the first swears to promote Islam and the welfare of the second, and the second swears to obey (_ta’ah_) the tenets of Islam and follow the first’s leadership.



so the reason why isis are not legitimate is because they have commited an "act of disobedience" against the saudi royal family


----------



## J Ed (Dec 22, 2015)

You don't crucify gays like that, you do it like this!


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

his "argument" seems to be that Baghdadi is not the legitimate caliph and the king of Saudi Arabia is instead!


----------



## JimW (Dec 22, 2015)

AFAIK while there are a few genuine Kharijite believers left it's mostly used as a term of abuse for perceived heretics, like the Ibadi in Oman.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

well, I'm sure once baghdadi and his merry men realise that a guardian contributor has pointed out their heretical ways they'll give up and go home


----------



## JimW (Dec 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> well, I'm sure once baghdadi and his merry men realise that a guardian contributor has pointed out their heretical ways they'll give up and go home


 yeah, more thinking it marked it out as a paint by numbers screed not worth publishing.


----------



## rekil (Dec 22, 2015)

Just a regular bloke.


> Nawaf Obaid is a visiting fellow at Harvard University's Belfer Center for Science & International Affairs. Currently, he is a counselor to both Prince Mohammad bin Nawaf, Saudi ambassador to the United Kingdom, and Prince Turki Al Faisal, who served as Saudi ambassador to the United States and was the longtime director of Saudi Arabia’s intelligence service. From 2004 to 2007, he was was Special Advisor for National Security Affairs to Prince Turki Al Faisal while Prince Turki was the Saudi Ambassador to the United Kingdom & Ireland, and then the United States.


----------



## agricola (Dec 22, 2015)

I'll see your Saudi hagiography, and I'll raise you a why do you never see a Lego figure with a disability?


----------



## nino_savatte (Dec 22, 2015)

agricola said:


> I'll see your Saudi hagiography, and I'll raise you a why do you never see a Lego figure with a disability?


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

I fully agree about theories saying that Saudi Arabia "created" ISIS are far to simplistic but come on. that is a nauseating bit of hagiography.


----------



## rekil (Dec 22, 2015)

If being 4cms tall and having horseshoe shaped hands isn't a little bit differently abled, I dunno what is.


----------



## JimW (Dec 22, 2015)

My brother turned my Action Man into an amputee, maybe get him on the case.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

Surely if they want the lego figures to have a disability the child can create it themselves?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

copliker said:


> Just a regular bloke.


those maggots at the guardian. Yemen burns while they give space to a shill like that?


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> his "argument" seems to be that Baghdadi is not the legitimate caliph and the king of Saudi Arabia is instead!


Which is batshit, obviously, and certainly not going to solve conflicts in the middle east. In defence of the guardian, I find it interesting to read the pov of a paid stooge of the Saudi state, since I don't get the chance very often - though admittedly because I don't look. But it is beyond bizarre for a supposedly liberal paper to print this without further comment. They could have done an interesting point-counterpoint article, with some secularist from the middle east ripping this bullshit to shreds. I've had a look at other comment pieces on Saudi Arabia recently and can only see one from the Iran foreign minister 

[2 minutes later] Oh, wait, I see supporting Saudi intervention in Syria is part of guardian policy now: The Guardian view on fighting Isis: the opening of a Saudi front | Editorial

Why did I try to defend this shitrag even for a moment? I take it all back.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

their argument boils down to "they're heretics" (er...how is ISIS's version of Islam substantially different to Saudi Arabias?) and "they disobeyed the king of saudi arabia who's actually the caliph, not baghdadi")


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> their argument boils down to "they're heretics" (er...how is ISIS's version of Islam substantially different to Saudi Arabias?) and "they disobeyed the king of saudi arabia who's actually the caliph, not baghdadi")


It's pretty mental but in a way I'm not worried. Looking at the comments, I think the readers all see this for the utter cockstain it is - there was never any chance they would buy it. What is worrying is that, following the guardian editorial above, they appear to be printing this justification for a theocratic terror state in pursuit of their _higher goals_ of supporting Saudi Arabia in Syria.

If that doesn't make you give up on this paper in despair, I don't know what will.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

i think the whole idea of bayah and caliphs and heretics etc is partially what caused the problem in the first place


----------



## Libertad (Dec 22, 2015)

agricola said:


> I'll see your Saudi hagiography, and I'll raise you a why do you never see a Lego figure with a disability?



Help me out here please. What do you see as being the problem with that article or the the idea that children and adults should see the world that they experience reflected in the toys that are available for them to play with?


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

> Should the first deviate from Islam, the second is obliged to replace him. The joint _bay’ah_ of the _ummah_ to the ruler is fundamental to Salafism and anyone that breaks the _bay’ah_ – as Isis has done – can never again be considered a true Salafi.



except that isis's arguement is that the saudi government has broken it and has "deviated from islam" ffs so by the same logic they could write an article in the guardian declaring that they are the true state and saudi arabia is not. the problem with them is not that they have disobeyed and broken an oath of allegiance to saudi arabia ffs! jesus wept.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

Sorry, I'm still just dealing with the fact that the Guardian's _official editorial line_ (this is not a cif piece we're talking about) is that Saudi intervention in Syria is to be welcomed as it will help to resolve the Syrian and regional conflicts. I have very few violent instincts, but that really does make me want to put a boot to their heads.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> except that isis's arguement is that the saudi government has broken it and has "deviated from islam" ffs so by the same logic they could write an article in the guardian declaring that they are the true state and saudi arabia is not. the problem with them is not that they have disobeyed and broken an oath of allegiance to saudi arabia ffs! jesus wept.


Well, yeah, it's also just mental for a generally secular liberal newspaper to be publishing anything from either side of the argument, except as a curiosity or in order to shove the ridiculousness of it all in people's faces.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

also if we're going to start doling out the religious epithets how about "r****dah" to mean shia which the saudi clerics routinely use on TV and in their literature. Nothing at all resembling ISIS there. Nothing.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

liberal interventionists and their just wars.


----------



## andysays (Dec 22, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> Surely if they want the lego figures to have a disability the child can create it themselves?



When I first had lego as a child, we didn't have pre-made figures, we had to make our own. The limitations of the medium meant they were all, if not disabled, at least somewhat deformed.

Kids today don't know how lucky they are...


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> liberal interventionists and their just wars.


The degree of violence implicit in their stance is even more astonishing than usual in this case I think. _Saudi Arabia_ for fuck's sake.


----------



## agricola (Dec 22, 2015)

Libertad said:


> Help me out here please. What do you see as being the problem with that article or the the idea that children and adults should see the world that they experience reflected in the toys that are available for them to play with?



Really?  There is an argument for the second part of what you have said - but I fail to see how you can apply it to something like Lego, that has as its main reason for existing the functionality for a child to create whatever they want from it, as long as they have enough blocks.  I mean, the article contains this paragraph:



> While Lego’s London offices will be legally bound to have wheelchair access, the brand is under no obligation to factor in representations of disabled access in its model buildings or include disabled characters in its much-loved mini-figure range, so it just doesn’t do it. Why not? Does there come a point when a brand becomes so large, with so much cultural influence, that it has a moral duty to include disability?


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

I mean doesn't giving space to his argument legitimise the concept of a "heretic" ffs. and saudi clerics and the saudi state discriminate against shia and others on the basis of their being heretics. saudi isn't bombing ISIS in yemen. FFS


----------



## rekil (Dec 22, 2015)

800 words on why lego pirates are something something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

the evidence for legos evil is manifest:


----------



## andysays (Dec 22, 2015)

agricola said:


> Really?  There is an argument for the second part of what you have said - but I fail to see how you can apply it to something like Lego, that has as its main reason for existing the functionality for a child to create whatever they want from it, as long as they have enough blocks.  I mean, the article contains this paragraph:



I confess I haven't read the entire article, so maybe I'm focussing on the para you've quoted out of context, but there are two incorrect assumptions which appear to be contained within it

Disability is always visible, so if you can't see it, it doesn't really exist
Disability provision is being reduced to wheelchair provision (again perhaps the most obvious/most visible aspect
Given its subject, it's a shame that the article goes along with/conforms to/confirms two widespread myths about disability


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

disturbing amount of holocaust lego dioramas on google. Whats next, sylvanian families armenian genocide?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> disturbing amount of holocaust lego dioramas on google. Whats next, sylvanian families armenian genocide?


No, ISIS:
Artwork showing Sylvanian Families terrorised by Isis banned from free speech exhibition


----------



## Libertad (Dec 22, 2015)

agricola said:


> Really?  There is an argument for the second part of what you have said - but I fail to see how you can apply it to something like Lego, that has as its main reason for existing the functionality for a child to create whatever they want from it, as long as they have enough blocks.  I mean, the article contains this paragraph:



Thank you for your reply, perhaps I'm being a little over sensitive.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

_In original Islamic scriptures and practice, the highest authority is the “guardian” of the ummah, (wali al amr). All religious, political and military powers are concentrated under this authority, which Saudi Arabia’s system best exemplifies in the modern world

Brainaddict  _


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

frogwoman said:


> _In original Islamic scriptures and practice, the highest authority is the “guardian” of the ummah, (wali al amr). All religious, political and military powers are concentrated under this authority, which Saudi Arabia’s system best exemplifies in the modern world
> 
> Brainaddict  _


I know. It's a good thing we have two guardians to protect our interests and they have now joined forces, isn't it? I'm tempted to start a thread just to follow the trajectory of the guardian's new-found love of Saudi Arabia, but we can also just follow it on here, to remind people that shit lifestyle pieces are not the worst this paper produces. Not by a long way.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

Here's another article written by this creep: 
A Saudi Nuclear Weapon? - Harvard - Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

_As with any important nation with global responsibilities, it is a matter of vital national security that the Kingdom be able to defend itself and its allies from hostile outside forces. A nuclear Iran is one such force. With the U.S. continuing to move in the direction of allowing such a development, the Kingdom can only look to itself to protect its people, even if this means implementing a nuclear program. And make no mistake, it has the scientists to develop the technology, finances, and national will to do so._


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 22, 2015)

If you want to track down some of the _Graun_'s execrable externally-funded content, use the following search terms:

"brought to you by" site:theguardian.com
"supported by" site:theguardian.com
"sponsored by" site:theguardian.com


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 22, 2015)

How entrepreneurs are monetising sustainability


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 23, 2015)

The italicisation of the word 'worth' that does it.


----------



## nino_savatte (Dec 23, 2015)

Fuck me, this is a bad article. I don't think the writer has ever left the comfort of his office.
Podemos, and the beginning of the end for Europe’s radical left | Cas Mudde


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 23, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Fuck me, this is a bad article. I don't think the writer has ever left the comfort of his office.
> Podemos, and the beginning of the end for Europe’s radical left | Cas Mudde



69 seats for a two year old party? Terrible result, totally fucked.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 23, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 69 seats for a two year old party? Terrible result, totally fucked.



They won't make it till they reach the electoral success of the Graunid's party the Lib Dems


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 23, 2015)

Our readers are generally happy with Corbyn, but are staff aren't so we decided to run another story with a negative undertone.


----------



## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

Toynbee's latest is awful too.


----------



## JimW (Dec 23, 2015)

He could start a pop-up media consultancy in Hoxton then they'd be all over him


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

toynbee wearing a sandwich board and crying doom there


----------



## J Ed (Dec 23, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Fuck me, this is a bad article. I don't think the writer has ever left the comfort of his office.
> Podemos, and the beginning of the end for Europe’s radical left | Cas Mudde



This is garbage, Podemos members including Iglesias actually went to Greece both for the referendum and the subsequent election. Here he is bigging up Syriza in September at the end of Syriza's electoral campaign.

The whole Podemos project from the start, as it grew out of the Indignado movement, has been about repackaging socialism as something that appeals to sectors of society who the left has in recent decades failed to mobilise. What the fuck is this 'realpolitik turn'? I must have missed the bit where Iglesias and Monedero went on La Tuerka and did a segment on 'how to make a workers' bomb in your mum's flat', the whole Podemos schtick has been about realpolitik from the start.



> The broadly expected PP-Citizens coalition is a few seats short of a majority, which could be provided by some regional parties.



Anyone with even the vaguest understanding of Spanish politics knows this is basically impossible.

Terrible.


----------



## nino_savatte (Dec 23, 2015)

J Ed said:


> This is garbage, Podemos members including Iglesias actually went to Greece both for the referendum and the subsequent election. Here he is bigging up Syriza in September at the end of Syriza's electoral campaign.
> 
> The whole Podemos project from the start, as it grew out of the Indignado movement, has been about repackaging socialism as something that appeals to sectors of society who the left has in recent decades failed to mobilise. What the fuck is this 'realpolitik turn'? I must have missed the bit where Iglesias and Monedero went on La Tuerka and did a segment on 'how to make a workers' bomb in your mum's flat', the whole Podemos schtick has been about realpolitik from the start.
> 
> ...


Some of the comments are quite good. Normally, I'd expect to see the usual right-wing keyboard warriors talking shite, but they're clearly outnumbered.




> JohnGoss
> 12h ago
> 12
> 
> ...



This guy's Spanish, so you have to forgive his use of English. 


> Daniel Míguez
> 1d ago
> 45
> 
> ...




This is funny.


> Celtiberico
> 2d ago
> 1112
> polls showed a similar, if less dramatic, implosion of the two established parties and a rapid rise of new challenger parties – Podemos, and the less radical Ciudadanos (Citizens). The latter emerged from the left in Catalonia, but has shifted more to the centre since it went national.
> ...


----------



## J Ed (Dec 23, 2015)

Oh god I missed the bit where the 'journalist' said that Ciudadanos emerged from the left


----------



## nino_savatte (Dec 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Toynbee's latest is awful too.


I read it. Talk about out of touch. The first para sets the scene.


> This is the bleakest midwinter of Labour’s misfortunes. Those emotionally invested in the hope of a future Labour government have never faced such dark days. Ahead lie years of a hegemonic Conservative era, free to do what they like in pursuit of driving the state below the size of anything attempted by Margaret Thatcher.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 23, 2015)

Here is a pic of Ciudadanos 'emerging from the left'


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> couldn't make it past the backhanded disrespect towards the chuckle brothers. I just hope Barry keeps that article away from Paul, he's easily needled by liberals when they attack his art rather than his politics


perhaps PD should run a counter article denouncing the guardian for dissing our comrades.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2015)

agricola said:


> I'll see your Saudi hagiography, and I'll raise you a why do you never see a Lego figure with a disability?


It hasn't been the Disability Discrimination Act since 2010, you ill-informed lazy researcher, Atkinson. If you're going to write about disability do it properly.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2015)

Libertad said:


> Thank you for your reply, perhaps I'm being a little over sensitive.


 You're not, but the article is lazy and only talks about disabilities requiring wheelchairs (with a single passing mention of guide dogs), and disabilities being physical.  both of us know there's more to disability than that. It's a shame Rebecca Atkinson doesn't.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2015)

agricola said:


> I'll see your Saudi hagiography, and I'll raise you a why do you never see a Lego figure with a disability?




missing a leg and having but one eye: two disabilities in one figure.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 23, 2015)

Surprised at Cas Mudde in that Podemos piece - he's usually pretty good when he writes on the far-right and modern populism.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 81177
> 
> missing a leg and having but one eye: two disabilities in one figure.


 she's never played with Lego in her life, clearly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2015)




----------



## J Ed (Dec 23, 2015)

The pirate lego was the best


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Toynbee's latest is awful too.


Newspeak version:



killer b said:


> Just Toynbee.


----------



## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

Does anyone take her seriously? She's basically on the wrong side of history every time. A doomladen Toynbee piece should be taken as an indication that they're on the right path by it's subjects.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Does anyone take her seriously? She's basically on the wrong side of history every time. A doomladen Toynbee piece should be taken as an indication that they're on the right path by it's subjects.


not just her is it, most of the politics stuff from employees is off beam or plain wrong.


----------



## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

She's particularly sure-footed with her wrongness though. She doesn't even get it right twice a day.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 23, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> It hasn't been the Disability Discrimination Act since 2010, you ill-informed lazy researcher, Atkinson. If you're going to write about disability do it properly.



Yep. As I had cause to tell a council officer recently, "it's the disability discrimination provisions of the Equalities Act, not the 'Disability Discrimination Act', you dick".


----------



## rekil (Dec 23, 2015)

I sort of want workers bomb lego now.


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Julie Bindels done a piece on why we should be ashamed of ourselves rather than pointing the finger at Tyson Fury. Why? because boxing is a savage brutal sport and middle class viewers of it can't judge working class sports men by their standards cos they don't know any better.
> 
> Think Tyson Fury’s views are offensive? Boxing is worse | Julie Bindel



That would be the expert on boxing and combat sports in general, Julie Bindel?

I've probably forgotten more about that subject before breakfast than she knows all day, if I'm honest.


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 23, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Tell that to the elves who suffered a lockout for attempting to strike for better pay and conditions



Will the New Statesman's staff Christmas present be union recognition, do you think?


----------



## J Ed (Dec 23, 2015)

Bakunin said:


> Will the New Statesman's staff Christmas present be union recognition, do you think?



Nah, unions will be recognised at right-wing papers like the Times before the New Statesman oh wait that already happened


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 23, 2015)

J Ed said:


> You don't crucify gays like that, you do it like this!








OI! SAUDIS!

NO!


----------



## Favelado (Dec 23, 2015)

> The broadly expected PP-Citizens coalition is a few seats short of a majority, which could be provided by some regional parties.



What in the name of fuck is that? If you don't know what you're talking about, just shut up.



> PSOE and Podemos are far removed from a parliamentary majority, even with IU and leftwing regionalist parties.



He's got the two the wrong way round hasn't he? It's as massive a howler as that.



J Ed said:


> Anyone with even the vaguest understanding of Spanish politics knows this is basically impossible.
> 
> Terrible.



Absolutely.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 23, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> You're not, but the article is lazy and only talks about disabilities requiring wheelchairs (with a single passing mention of guide dogs), and disabilities being physical.  both of us know there's more to disability than that. It's a shame Rebecca Atkinson doesn't.


Also clearly couldn't be bothered to do a couple of minutes googling or they would have covered thus amazing story.
Disabled tortoise gets a Lego 'wheelchair' - CNET


----------



## emanymton (Dec 23, 2015)

Also I know it's not 'proper lego' but this set features a wheel chair 
Community People Set


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 23, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Also I know it's not 'proper lego' but this set features a wheel chair
> Community People Set


"As children role-play and talk about each of the 20 unique characters in the set, they will learn important lessons about gender, age, relationships, and the unique roles and responsibilities people have in their communities."


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 24, 2015)

Columnist who is not spending Xmas alone boasts about spending Christmas alone:
Spending Christmas alone? I am – and I will enjoy it


----------



## rekil (Dec 24, 2015)

With his crab soufflé, Ed Balls shows how to overcome the ultimate rejection


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 24, 2015)

Do we need an "why the independent is going down the pan" thread? 

The BBC managed to put two dogs on the telly in the same day


----------



## nino_savatte (Dec 24, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Columnist who is not spending Xmas alone boasts about spending Christmas alone:
> Spending Christmas alone? I am – and I will enjoy it


From that article.


> I have a plan for Christmas Day that, for the most part, involves solitude. I’ll wake up at my ordinary hour, work for a bit, then perhaps go see a movie



Er, aren't the cinemas closed on Xmas Day - like everything else? 

In fact, the cinemas are closed today iirc.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 24, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> From that article.
> 
> 
> Er, aren't the cinemas closed on Xmas Day - like everything else?
> ...


She's in New York.


----------



## rekil (Dec 24, 2015)

> Then I switched careers, from the predictable limits of a lawyer’s salary to the erratic income of a writer. Suddenly, the $300 premium on a Christmastime flight was a real obstacle for me.


I think I'll pitch a "I have a really really good day job and bang out anyoldshit journalism in my spare time - anyoldshit like this" piece at them.


----------



## Shechemite (Dec 24, 2015)

Seems to be an issue with article re investigations by NHS trusts into unexpected deaths of people with LD. Somerset Partnership have challenged the article and now it is down pending investigation.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 24, 2015)

Previously:

Molly Crabapple: 'We’re just trying to use our art to consume the world'


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 24, 2015)

copliker said:


> With his crab soufflé, Ed Balls shows how to overcome the ultimate rejection


an article about a new column in another paper? the barrel is being scraped


----------



## LDC (Dec 24, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Previously:
> 
> Molly Crabapple: 'We’re just trying to use our art to consume the world'



She's a fully paid up member of the back slapping media circus of 'radicals' with Mason, Penny et el.


----------



## nino_savatte (Dec 24, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> She's in New York.


That figures.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 24, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> From that article.
> 
> 
> Er, aren't the cinemas closed on Xmas Day - like everything else?
> ...


You missed out the end bit:
"I'll wake up at my ordinary hour, work for a bit, then perhaps go see a movie *before arriving at a friend’s for the same low-key “orphan’s Christmas” dinner I’ve gone to for the past few years*."
So she's not actually spending the day alone.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 24, 2015)

yeah unless its a microwave meal for one et in silence while watching Only Fools And Horses dvd's then its not the real deal


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah unless its a microwave meal for one et in silence while watching Only Fools And Horses dvd's then its not the real deal



You're never alone with the Trotters.


----------



## 8den (Dec 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah unless its a microwave meal for one et in silence while watching Only Fools And Horses dvd's then its not the real deal



There's times when Christmas alone with a load of DVDs and a duvet sounds amazing


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 24, 2015)

8den said:


> There's times when Christmas alone with a load of DVDs and a duvet sounds amazing


I can confirm that such a Christmas is indeed fab.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 25, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> I can confirm that such a Christmas is indeed fab.



Greebo and I treasure our "Home Alone" Christmases.


----------



## andysays (Dec 25, 2015)

ViolentPanda and Greebo recently (part 2 in an occasional series)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 25, 2015)

andysays said:


> ViolentPanda and Greebo recently (part 2 in an occasional series)



It may be true that Greebo is somewhat Joe Pesci (_a la_ "Goodfellas") in spirit.


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 26, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It may be true that Greebo is somewhat Joe Pesci (_a la_ "Goodfellas") in spirit.



The funniest thing about that movie is watching Joe Pesci trying not to swear.

I invented the 'Joe Pesci Drinking Game' in his honour. You simply down a swallow of spirits every time he shouts 'Fuck!'

This is not recommended when watching 'Casino', although it does help numb the horror of the baseball bat scene at the end.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2015)

nick cohen phoning this one in:

With no opposition, the Tories are free to do what they like | Nick Cohen


----------



## J Ed (Dec 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nick cohen phoning this one in:
> 
> With no opposition, the Tories are free to do what they like | Nick Cohen



Remember the 'tougher on welfare than the Tories' line from Reeves? Not really opposition was it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 29, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Remember the 'tougher on welfare than the Tories' line from Reeves? Not really opposition was it.


every guardian anti corbyn one from anyone has been pulling the 'oh god these idealists are going to wreck the labour party and keep the tories in forever'

the best line was 'I'm to old for idealism' by someone two years north of me, privately educated and set for life anyway no matter what stripe of govmnt gets in. Away and fuck yourselves. They just can't see that blairites have failed, lib dems have failed, the sdp failed. They put it down to niave idealist three quidders and people who don't know any better. deluded cunts


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> every guardian anti corbyn one from anyone has been pulling the 'oh god these idealists are going to wreck the labour party and keep the tories in forever'
> 
> the best line was 'I'm to old for idealism' by someone two years north of me, privately educated and set for life anyway no matter what stripe of govmnt gets in. Away and fuck yourselves. They just can't see that blairites have failed, lib dems have failed, the sdp failed. They put it down to niave idealist three quidders and people who don't know any better. deluded cunts



Because after all,what sort of two-bob cunt would prefer social democracy over neoliberalism?


----------



## BigTom (Dec 29, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Remember the 'tougher on welfare than the Tories' line from Reeves? Not really opposition was it.


Also references the lib dem collapse like they were in opposition to the Tories when they were in coalition with them. I just dunno how these people write these things.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2016)

Saudi Arabia executes 47 people in one day including Iranian cleric

d.gu.com/D93Jtd

The bloke they executed was saudi not iranian.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2016)

@guardiannews he is NOT Iranian ! He is Saudi Shia he was born in Saudi Arabia can't you get your news right just one ?????


----------



## brogdale (Jan 4, 2016)

Why Corbyn cannot be allowed to lead his party...live!


----------



## J Ed (Jan 4, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Why Corbyn cannot be allowed to lead his party...live!




I see that if you click on the link the revenge reshuffle has become the 'punishment' reshuffle.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 4, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I see that if you click on the link the revenge reshuffle has become the 'punishment' reshuffle.


They're terrorist sympathisers so, no doubt, that will morph into the knee-capping reshuffle by lunchtime.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 4, 2016)

brogdale said:


> They're terrorist sympathisers so, no doubt, that will morph into the knee-capping reshuffle by lunchtime.



A man can dream...


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2016)

*Greece's economic crisis goes on, like an odyssey without end*


----------



## treelover (Jan 5, 2016)

The Guardian is completely censoring any comments relating to the horrendous events in Cologne, (numerous women sexually assaulted/robbed at Cologne Station) on an article about 'valuing diversity in Europe', not just saying this post has been removed, but completely disappearing them. Some are by racists , Kippers, etc, but some are asking why has there been a media cover up about the attacks, others wanting to discuss the events.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> *Greece's economic crisis goes on, like an odyssey without end*


'Tspiras faces the labours of hercules to get his country back on track and convincing a hostile eurozone banking system to play along seems a sisyphean task' etc etc LOOK I READ PENGUIN CLASSICS


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2016)

treelover said:


> The Guardian is completely censoring any comments relating to the horrendous events in Cologne, (numerous women sexually assaulted/robbed at Cologne Station) on an article about 'valuing diversity in Europe', not just saying this post has been removed, but completely disappearing them. Some are by racists , Kippers, etc, but some are asking why has there been a media cover up about the attacks, others wanting to discuss the events.


if the comments are censored how do you know they are not racist?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2016)

treelover said:


> The Guardian is completely censoring any comments relating to the horrendous events in Cologne, (numerous women sexually assaulted/robbed at Cologne Station) on an article about 'valuing diversity in Europe', not just saying this post has been removed, but completely disappearing them. Some are by racists , Kippers, etc, but some are asking why has there been a media cover up about the attacks, others wanting to discuss the events.


i look forward to your thread 'why treelover is going down the pan'


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> if the comments are censored how do you know they are not racist?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> @guardiannews he is NOT Iranian ! He is Saudi Shia he was born in Saudi Arabia can't you get your news right just one ?????


i think treelover does their research sometimes


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> every guardian anti corbyn one from anyone has been pulling the 'oh god these idealists are going to wreck the labour party and keep the tories in forever'
> 
> the best line was 'I'm to old for idealism' by someone two years north of me, privately educated and set for life anyway no matter what stripe of govmnt gets in. Away and fuck yourselves. They just can't see that blairites have failed, lib dems have failed, the sdp failed. They put it down to niave idealist three quidders and people who don't know any better. deluded cunts


i think we all recall the red tories. it would be nice to let the old reds have a shot.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 'Tspiras faces the labours of hercules to get his country back on track and convincing a hostile eurozone banking system to play along seems a sisyphean task' etc etc LOOK I READ PENGUIN CLASSICS


Herakles IYDM


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 'Tspiras faces the labours of hercules to get his country back on track and convincing a hostile eurozone banking system to play along seems a sisyphean task' etc etc LOOK I READ PENGUIN CLASSICS


tbh if someone comes out with 'sisyphean' i'd say they're more likely to have read  camus than homer being as sartre wrote a 1942 essay about the myth of sisyphus


----------



## rekil (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 'Tspiras faces the labours of hercules to get his country back on track and convincing a hostile eurozone banking system to play along seems a sisyphean task' etc etc LOOK I READ PENGUIN CLASSICS


This is the hack's friend.


----------



## andysays (Jan 5, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> if the comments are censored how do you know they are not racist?



The comments on CiF aren't pre-moderated (not normally anyway) so what normally happens is they get posted, meaning people can read them, then they get reported and are deleted, normally with a message to that effect. Similar to how it works here, in fact.

I haven't looked at the CiF thread in question, so  can't comment on the specifics, but it's entirely possible that treelover has read some of the comments in question, judged if they're racist, and then noticed that they've subsequently been disappeared (and even if they are/were racist, the usual way of dealing with them is to remove them, but inserting a statement saying they've been removed because they are against the guidelines in some way).

That's how it used to be anyway. I personally gave up on even reading CiF, far less posting on it, some years ago, so ultimately I don't really care what they've been doing.


----------



## cantsin (Jan 5, 2016)

andysays said:


> The comments on CiF aren't pre-moderated (not normally anyway) so what normally happens is they get posted, meaning people can read them, then they get reported and are deleted, normally with a message to that effect. Similar to how it works here, in fact.
> 
> I haven't looked at the CiF thread in question, so  can't comment on the specifics, but it's entirely possible that treelover has read some of the comments in question, judged if they're racist, and then noticed that they've subsequently been disappeared (and even if they are/were racist, the usual way of dealing with them is to remove them, but inserting a statement saying they've been removed because they are against the guidelines in some way).
> 
> That's how it used to be anyway. I personally gave up on even reading CiF, far less posting on it, some years ago, so ultimately I don't really care what they've been doing.



I bored myself so severely on CiF, I've requested my profile be deleted ( as per info i found online ) . I got some automated reply with further instructions, need to follow up.

Will keep you all updated with any dvpts


----------



## andysays (Jan 5, 2016)

cantsin said:


> I bored myself so severely on CiF, I've requested my profile be deleted ( as per info i found online ) . I got some automated reply with further instructions, need to follow up.
> 
> Will keep you all updated with any dvpts



If that doesn't work, I can recommend emailing Matt Seaton or whoever's the current CiF editor and calling them a cunt.

I certainly found it remarkably satisfying


----------



## cantsin (Jan 5, 2016)

andysays said:


> If that doesn't work, I can recommend emailing Matt Seaton or whoever's the current CiF editor and calling them a cunt.
> 
> I certainly found it remarkably satisfying



lol, good idea


----------



## J Ed (Jan 6, 2016)

The Worst South America Coverage of 2015



> The “liberal” Guardian does worse – much worse in fact - than the more openly reactionary Economist in an article entitled “Protests by 1,000s of Ecuadorians meet with brutal repression”. The reporter, David Hill, applies the same technique as the Economist – i.e. uncritically reporting anything said by bitter opponents of the Ecuadorian government– except that Hill’s allegations are even more serious. Hill scoffs at government claims that protesters were violent. Check out the video of the protests captured by Telesur in Quito. Any fair minded person will end up gasping at Hill’s dishonesty. He also pushed a crazy theory that the government issued a state of exception over volcanic activity to stifle the protests. The volcano, one of the highest active volcanoes in the world, had produced an ash cloud 5 km high. It threatened two major cities and the food supply for millions of people. In a country of sixteen million people that is serious national level threat by any sane criteria.
> 
> The Guardian has long been feuding with Julian Assange,who has been living in the Ecuadorian embassy in London for the past three years. That might have helped Hill’s atrocious article get published. However, the Guardian has long been willing to host smears of Noam Chomsky, and even its long-time employee Seumas Milne after he left The Guardian.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 7, 2016)

From one of the comments on this story:

Oregon standoff: memory of botched Waco siege shapes federal response



> Who says Waco was botched? It got rid of vermin and if the same happens to this vermin, no loss.



Weren't some of the people who died in that just children? The guardian needs to sort its shit iut big time there's islamophobia, racism and various types of mindless hate being spewed out there all the time it seems.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 7, 2016)

Owen Jones said:
			
		

> Ah, the plight of Labour, I hear you sigh



This man went to the best University in the country


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 8, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> This man went to the best University in the country


He's a bit young to have gone to South Bank Poly, surely?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

i see crooner alanis morrissette is the guardian's new agony aunt Alanis Morissette to be Guardian Weekend's new advice columnist


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> This man went to the best University in the country


yeh but it did him no good


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

Dear Allanis,

I have ten thousand spoons but no knife, canyou assist?


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i see crooner alanis morrissette is the guardian's new agony aunt Alanis Morissette to be Guardian Weekend's new advice columnist



I always think of her as God.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 8, 2016)

Timothy Garton Ash on creeping tyranny in Poland...

"A comparison with Tory-ruled Britain is interesting because PiS politicians claim to be implementing something like British-style parliamentary sovereignty. A British Conservative politician once described Britain’s political system as “elective dictatorship” because of the extraordinary power concentrated in the hands of any prime minister with a substantial and disciplined parliamentary majority.

*Yet although Britain does not have a written constitution, like the US and Germany, it does have powerful checks and balances: an impeccably neutral head of state; fiercely independent courts that do not hesitate to find against government ministers; the BBC; a professional civil service; security services that (these days, so far as I know) don’t do the bidding of one politician against other politicians; a robust culture of civil political debate … Need I go on?"*

...just missing The Guardian off the end of that list


----------



## treelover (Jan 8, 2016)

Let’s not shy away from asking hard questions about the Cologne attacks | Gaby Hinsliff

Guardian 'picks' on the article about Cologne are appalling


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Army apologises for 'beasting' that killed soldier Gavin Williams


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 81810
> Army apologises for 'beasting' that killed soldier Gavin Williams


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 9, 2016)

‘Would he disapprove of my single heathen lifestyle?’: me and my Syrian refugee lodger


Oh dear


----------



## emanymton (Jan 9, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> ‘Would he disapprove of my single heathen lifestyle?’: me and my Syrian refugee lodger
> 
> 
> Oh dear





> One evening I had to stop him applying to be social media manager for the Sunday Sport.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 9, 2016)

I also find his obsession with war, however understandable, wearing. I don’t like seeing pictures of dead bodies, and have had to initiate a “no war at the dinner table” policy.


----------



## rekil (Jan 9, 2016)

> Slightly frustrating, too, is his lack of urgency in getting a job.


If I was a refugee holed up with a guardian journo, I think I'd be losing the will to live bit by bit as well. 

Good job on ratting him out.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 9, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> ‘Would he disapprove of my single heathen lifestyle?’: me and my Syrian refugee lodger
> 
> 
> Oh dear


Ugh. 'Obsession with war'  And the stuff about him getting a job, and acting as though he should have realised earlier he'd have to start from the bottom. I'm sure if she fled to another country she'd be fucking ecstatic to work as a street cleaner. I hope that happens to her one day.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> From one of the comments on this story:
> 
> Oregon standoff: memory of botched Waco siege shapes federal response
> 
> ...


Yes, a number of children died ar Waco. It is extremely offensive to call those who died at the compound vermin.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 9, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, a number of children died ar Waco. It is extremely offensive to call those who died at the compound vermin.


a good number of people were also victims of a cult mentality and had been psychologically manipulated. One couple only woke up to the wrong when Koresh wanted to start having sex with their kid  dupes, manipulated and mislead yeah but not 100% vermin


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 9, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> ‘Would he disapprove of my single heathen lifestyle?’: me and my Syrian refugee lodger
> 
> 
> Oh dear





emanymton said:


>





frogwoman said:


> I also find his obsession with war, however understandable, wearing. I don’t like seeing pictures of dead bodies, and have had to initiate a “no war at the dinner table” policy.





copliker said:


> If I was a refugee holed up with a guardian journo, I think I'd be losing the will to live bit by bit as well.
> 
> Good job on ratting him out.



She's the one who seemed so pally with spycop Bob Lambert's clique in Bradford in its battles with George Galloway.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 9, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> I'm sure if she fled to another country she'd be fucking ecstatic to work as a street cleaner. I hope that happens to her one day.


Isn't being an intern at the _Graun _basically the same thing?


----------



## stavros (Jan 9, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Isn't being an intern at the _Graun _basically the same thing?



Street cleaners get paid.


----------



## treelover (Jan 9, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> She's the one who seemed so pally with spycop Bob Lambert's clique in Bradford in its battles with George Galloway.



Helen Pidd went to Sheff Uni, she is the Guardians Northern Editor, she is not the worse.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 9, 2016)

treelover said:


> Helen Pidd went to Sheff Uni, she is the Guardians Northern Editor, she is not the worse.


None of which contradicts or negates what I said.


----------



## killer b (Jan 10, 2016)

Helen Pidd is a massive cunt.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 10, 2016)

killer b said:


> Helen Pidd is a massive cunt.


I think I have that white label


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2016)

killer b said:


> Helen Pidd is a massive cunt.


Because?


----------



## killer b (Jan 10, 2016)

That made up shit about protestors at the tory conference, that made up racist shit about people in Oldham who told her they were voting labour even though they couldn't speak English... Wherever there's a guardian line to be pushed with a northern angle (preferably within half an hours drive of the M60), there you'll find the guardian's 'northern' editor, pushing it. 

Also she lives round the corner from my girlfriend, and that's her considered view of her.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jan 10, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> I'm sure if she fled to another country she'd be fucking ecstatic to work as a street cleaner.





DaveCinzano said:


> Isn't being an intern at the _Graun _basically the same thing?





stavros said:


> Street cleaners get paid.



((Guardian Interns))


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 10, 2016)

cynicaleconomy said:


> ((Guardian Interns))


Hidden victims


----------



## agricola (Jan 10, 2016)

killer b said:


> That made up shit about protestors at the tory conference, that made up racist shit about people in Oldham who told her they were voting labour even though they couldn't speak English... Wherever there's a guardian line to be pushed with a northern angle (preferably within half an hours drive of the M60), there you'll find the guardian's 'northern' editor, pushing it.
> 
> Also she lives round the corner from my girlfriend, and that's her considered view of her.



In her defence though, she did write (in the aftermath of Oldham) one of the most magnificently bitter articles to appear in the Guardian in recent years.  You can almost see the hate-tears staining the monitor, tablet, smart-phone or whatever means by which one reads it.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jan 10, 2016)

I don't know why I'm ever surprised by the amoral fuckers at this point, but their second most prominent piece on the junior doctor's strike is this piece by an ex Telegraph political columnist about how best to undermine the doctors. Including a fucking outright lie about the police and fire service not having unsocial hours payments for working weekends.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 11, 2016)

From the _Obbo_:



> ...He thinks of the way that his mother stuck with the party – even, say, after 1956, when Russian tanks rolled into Prague...



David Aaronovitch: Me, Mum, Dad… and Stalin


----------



## co-op (Jan 11, 2016)

> ...He thinks of the way that his mother stuck with the party – even, say, after 1956, when Russian tanks rolled into Prague...



Lol. Were these the ones that got lost on the way to Budapest?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 11, 2016)

co-op said:


> Lol. Were these the ones that got lost on the way to Budapest?


Clearly they were taking the scenic route


----------



## J Ed (Jan 11, 2016)

Turns out that expensive clothing brand only makes clothes so that they can make a profit!!!!!!!

D&G’s hijab range is aimed at people like me – so why do I feel excluded? | Ruqaiya Haris


----------



## J Ed (Jan 11, 2016)

I can think of another reason why Dolce & Gabana is exclusionary even to this white male, can anyone guess what it is?

This is seriously what politics is to a lot of people now- lobbying multinational corporations over the way in which luxury products are marketed to them.


----------



## belboid (Jan 11, 2016)

Oh, I nearly forgot to post this:

Jeremy Hunt can take on the junior doctors by showing he’s for the NHS | Matthew d’Ancona

'The greatest threat to the NHS is not the Conservative party but its own failure to respond to modernity.’  - FOAD D'Ancona


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 11, 2016)

That D'Ancona is such a massive D'ick. Only stumbled upon his shite last year for the first time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 11, 2016)

Jesus fucking christ no, I do not want that.


----------



## MarkyMarrk (Jan 11, 2016)

It's always been pretty bad, hasn't it?


----------



## killer b (Jan 11, 2016)

Yeah, I think only the OP imagined that there's been any significant slip in quality - everyone else is just using the thread as a receptacle for examples of guardian shit.


----------



## Flavour (Jan 12, 2016)

fucking hell that NHS thing though... I mean it's just sickening. they're saying that only the private sector can provide modernity, yet warning against anti-Tory (i.e. controllers of the public sector) prejudice, as if the State's recognition that it has no choice but to sell itself off to the highest bidder were some sort of indisputable fact.

FUCK OFF


----------



## J Ed (Jan 12, 2016)

Flavour said:


> fucking hell that NHS thing though... I mean it's just sickening. they're saying that only the private sector can provide modernity, yet warning against anti-Tory (i.e. controllers of the public sector) prejudice, as if the State's recognition that it has no choice but to sell itself off to the highest bidder were some sort of indisputable fact.
> 
> FUCK OFF



You just know that whoever wrote it is immensely smug about the fact that they think that they are able to 'argue any point intelligently' meanwhile everyone sees the for what they are.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 12, 2016)

J Ed said:


> You just know that whoever wrote it is immensely smug about the fact that they think that they are able to 'argue any point intelligently' meanwhile everyone sees the for what they are.


we-argue-any-point.com


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 12, 2016)

I wondered if the guardian would line up to bash this strike. Should have guessed.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 12, 2016)

It's time to join the war against sugar: here's why


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 12, 2016)

J Ed said:


> You just know that whoever wrote it is immensely smug about the fact that they think that they are able to 'argue any point intelligently' meanwhile everyone sees the for what they are.


The sort of person who would have joined the NSDAP in 1934.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 12, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> View attachment 81947
> Jesus fucking christ no, I do not want that.


Thats by Matthew d'Ancona -"He was previously editor of the Spectator and also writes for the Evening Standard and GQ. He was the Sunday Telegraph's political columnist for 19 years"  Why theyve given him a weekly column is anyones guess


----------



## belboid (Jan 12, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Thats by Matthew d'Ancona -"He was previously editor of the Spectator and also writes for the Evening Standard and GQ. He was the Sunday Telegraph's political columnist for 19 years"  Why theyve given him a weekly column is anyones guess


gotta keep in with the party in power!


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 12, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Thats by Matthew d'Ancona -"He was previously editor of the Spectator and also writes for the Evening Standard and GQ. He was the Sunday Telegraph's political columnist for 19 years"  Why theyve given him a weekly column is anyones guess


Most of the broadsheet's have one regular columnist from the "opposite" side to the paper's, to show how fair they are.


----------



## Greasy Boiler (Jan 12, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> Most of the broadsheet's have one regular columnist from the "opposite" side to the paper's, to show how fair they are.



That's quite a charitable assessment - I always saw it as deliberate rage-bait to boost traffic.


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 12, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Clearly they were taking the scenic route



They finally reached Prague in 1968.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 12, 2016)

It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain | Joris Luyendijk


----------



## emanymton (Jan 12, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> It's time to join the war against sugar: here's why


Is this the most Guardian sentence ever? 

Trash author Andy Mulligan’s new book Liquidator has its roots in the rotten-toothed smiles of poor Filippino children he met in Manila.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 12, 2016)

The white man pathology: inside the fandom of Sanders and Trump

Lengthy would-be gonzo piece... actually, I'd say it _was_ "gonzo", it just illustrates why that's not always such a great idea, if anyone was wondering. Massively self-indulgent, a combination of surface impressions and half-arsed analyses of those, saying basically sod all.

Response in Jacobin - https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/01/bernie-sanders-trump-populism-marche-corbyn-politics - though not, I think, a very good one; it comes across as snotty and smug.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 13, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The white man pathology: inside the fandom of Sanders and Trump
> 
> Lengthy would-be gonzo piece... actually, I'd say it _was_ "gonzo", it just illustrates why that's not always such a great idea, if anyone was wondering. Massively self-indulgent, a combination of surface impressions and half-arsed analyses of those, saying basically sod all.
> 
> Response in Jacobin - https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/01/bernie-sanders-trump-populism-marche-corbyn-politics - though not, I think, a very good one; it comes across as snotty and smug.



The first one is a dreadful article.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2016)

i tell you what, why don't we start a new thread, perhaps briefer, for when the guardian publishes something worth reading.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2016)

anyway, in a vain bid to salvage the guardian's sullied reputation i'll start you off with this little gem


Companies can monitor workers' private online chats, European court rules


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 13, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> The sort of person who would have joined the NSDAP in 1934.



Sub-March Violet cunts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Sub-March Violet cunts.


april violets


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 13, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The white man pathology: inside the fandom of Sanders and Trump
> 
> Lengthy would-be gonzo piece... actually, I'd say it _was_ "gonzo", it just illustrates why that's not always such a great idea, if anyone was wondering. Massively self-indulgent, a combination of surface impressions and half-arsed analyses of those, saying basically sod all.
> 
> Response in Jacobin - https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/01/bernie-sanders-trump-populism-marche-corbyn-politics - though not, I think, a very good one; it comes across as snotty and smug.


people were drawing a corbyn/trump parralel during his election campaign. Its the right liberal mindset that 'anything other than my position is extremismism' again


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 14, 2016)

The 12 things that restaurants must stop doing in 2016


----------



## Santino (Jan 14, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> The 12 things that restaurants must stop doing in 2016


 That's a clickbait title for a fairly inoffensive column about the writer's foibles.


----------



## bimble (Jan 14, 2016)

Good journalism doesn't come for free though does it. What's free is interns trawling twitter. 
Anyone else have adblocker installed & still not paying £5 a month even though they keep asking you to?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2016)

another useful article, albeit too little, too late to do anything for the guardian's image: How to use search like a pro: 10 tips and tricks for Google and beyond


----------



## emanymton (Jan 15, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> The 12 things that restaurants must stop doing in 2016


I don't have many of these problems with the sort of restaurants I go to.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 15, 2016)

emanymton said:


> I don't have many of these problems with the sort of restaurants I go to.


Well I'm with Jay:



> *What is it with taking the bread plate away at the end of the starters?* No restaurateur has ever explained to me why that happens, but still you do it. And while I’m on bread: *unsalted butter? I mean, really?* I don’t want a mouthful of flavourless grease with my bread. You don’t want people in your restaurant who dislike salted butter. They have feeble, over-sensitive palates. They will hate your food. And if they don’t, I will. *Oh, and put salt and pepper on the table*. Who do you think you are? Nico bloody Ladenis?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 15, 2016)

I don't have a clue who Nico Ladenis is though. I just want salt and pepper


----------



## JimW (Jan 15, 2016)

Does he take a position on chip wraps?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 15, 2016)

JimW said:


> Does he take a position on chip wraps?


 
Having seen photographs of Jay Rayner I would take some convincing that he wasn't full-square behind chip wraps, preferably rolled in breadcrumbs and deep-fried.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 15, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> I don't have a clue who Nico Ladenis is though. I just want salt and pepper



A chef notorious for not providing condiments as the food was apparently perfect "as served".


----------



## Greasy Boiler (Jan 15, 2016)

Wow, I don't think I ever seen anyone get macho over salted butter before.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 15, 2016)

Greasy Boiler said:


> Wow, I don't think I ever seen anyone get macho over salted butter before.


Macho?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 15, 2016)

I only buy unsalted butter, because salted butter has salt in it to disguise the fact that otherwise it would be a big tasteless lump of fat. Unsalted butter has to try harder.

This counts for a lot of food actually.


----------



## Greasy Boiler (Jan 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Macho?



I dunno, something about networking I think.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 15, 2016)

Greasy Boiler said:


> I dunno, something about networking I think.


Whining about butter is not a gendered thing


----------



## Greasy Boiler (Jan 15, 2016)

Fucking hell.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jan 15, 2016)

Networking: nepotism for the unrelated?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## NoXion (Jan 15, 2016)

Unsalted butter? You might as well use fucking margarine.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 16, 2016)

Greasy Boiler said:


> I dunno, something about networking I think.



Unsalted butter is just butter which has failed to network sufficiently, sort of like black people or Jews during the Holocaust.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 16, 2016)

Bottom of first column - and this is on today's front page. I guess the intern working on proof reading had a long train journey back to Buckinghamshire and left early.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 16, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> View attachment 82155
> 
> Bottom of first column - and this is on today's front page. I guess the intern working on proof reading had a long train journey back to Buckinghamshire and left early.


??


----------



## binka (Jan 16, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> ??


'second or third sunday in easter'


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 16, 2016)

Efforts to battle terrorism are like 'grains of sand in a desert'


----------



## andysays (Jan 16, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> ??



This is what happens when you get monkeys (all right then, apes) to be proof readers. Sorry OU, but with the reference to "primates" also in the story, that joke was inevitable.

Also, why the fuck do they want to move Easter to the same Sunday each year - it sounds like something Proletarian Democracy would favour, but the CofE?


----------



## Flavour (Jan 16, 2016)

also writing "five to 10" seems like bad style


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 16, 2016)

Flavour said:


> also writing "five to 10" seems like bad style



I admire this thread's almost pathological desire to find fault with the Guardian.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 16, 2016)

andysays said:


> This is what happens when you get monkeys (all right then, apes) to be proof readers. Sorry OU, but with the reference to "primates" also in the story, that joke was inevitable.
> 
> Also, why the fuck do they want to move Easter to the same Sunday each year - it sounds like something Proletarian Democracy would favour, but the CofE?


Just picking a date now. It's almost like they are making it up as they go along.


----------



## Nylock (Jan 17, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> ??


'Easter' is not a month, it has but one Sunday in it: Easter Sunday


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jan 17, 2016)

andysays said:


> This is what happens when you get monkeys (all right then, apes) to be proof readers. Sorry OU, but with the reference to "primates" also in the story, that joke was inevitable.
> 
> Also, why the fuck do they want to move Easter to the same Sunday each year - it sounds like something Proletarian Democracy would favour, but the CofE?


Welby is a corporate puppet.  It is in his background. A fixed date is better for employers is all.  Stuff the natural rhythms of the year, stuff the link to Passover and the lunar calendar, even within his own religious tradition - no, what do the money grabbers and exploiters want.......


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jan 17, 2016)

emanymton said:


> It's almost like they are making it up as they go along.



Whaaaaaat?  Never has such a thing been done before in the history of Anglicanism.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 17, 2016)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Whaaaaaat?  Never has such a thing been done before in the history of Anglicanism.


There was me thinking it was routed in factual accounts of real events. It's MADE UP???!!


----------



## Maggot (Jan 20, 2016)

The Guardian is now being sponsored by  Shell. 

Why is the Guardian letting Shell fill its pages with dubious spin?


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Jan 21, 2016)

Maggot said:


> The Guardian is now being sponsored by  Shell.
> 
> Why is the Guardian letting Shell fill its pages with dubious spin?



Because its an improvement over that low grade journalism that is usually found in Al-Guardian's pages


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 21, 2016)

Maggot said:


> The Guardian is now being sponsored by  Shell.
> 
> Why is the Guardian letting Shell fill its pages with dubious spin?


because it sucks corporate cock


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 22, 2016)

Why I protest – five activists on the new age of dissent | The panel

One of the five is - drumroll, please - .....Billy Bragg!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2016)

Every single one of them also writes for the Guardian aside from this self-puffery and image establishing shit.

I've a lot of time for Nina Power though.


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 22, 2016)

(here)


----------



## J Ed (Jan 22, 2016)

Thank goodness he converted to the one true religion (there is no alternative) neoliberalism.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 22, 2016)

the graunid NHS special is so obviously just Nixon going to China concern trolling bullshit

Worse than fucking Tories


----------



## Buckaroo (Jan 23, 2016)

Full circle from how to make a simple goat's cheese to this.
Is mindfulness making us ill?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 23, 2016)

Nick Fucking Cohen - Nobody, not even British soldiers, should be above the law | Nick Cohen

I clicked on this thinking "well he's an arse but perhaps there might be some useful stuff in a piece bashing Cameron", but not only does he use it to reiterate that the Iraq war was basically a great idea if it wasn't for the bad things and who could have predicted those? (this is the first time in recorded history that a govt has tried to cover up war crimes after all, and the first we've heard of any bad results) he also manages to get a dig at Corbyn in there. That's an editorial requirement for G pieces at the moment mind.

Recommended if you don't feel that you've been grinding your teeth quite enough recently.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jan 23, 2016)

This reads like a sketch out of the the Chris Morris Blue Jam shows
Going underground: meet the man who lived as an animal



> As an otter, he had less success. Part of the problem was he didn’t like otters: nasty killers with little to recommend them. He enjoyed the sprainting (shit-sniffing, which he did with his children; before long, they could distinguish each other’s poo) and spent hours swimming the lakes on Exmoor.
> “I wasn’t sleeping in parks back then,” Foster clarifies. “I was trying to get into the head of an urban fox, eating out of dustbins and sometimes sleeping under bushes. I was doing that on and off most of the time I lived in London.”


----------



## emanymton (Jan 24, 2016)

This probably doesn't belong here, but I am to lazy to start a new thread. My excuse is that the Guardian aren't reporting this as comedy. 

Abused and beaten: MPs need help against violent public – report

Well good. If they don't like it don't be a fucking cunt of an mp.


----------



## Maggot (Jan 24, 2016)

emanymton said:


> This probably doesn't belong here, but I am to lazy to start a new thread. My excuse is that the Guardian aren't reporting this as comedy.
> 
> Abused and beaten: MPs need help against violent public – report
> 
> Well good. If they don't like it don't be a fucking cunt of an mp.


So you're in favour of violence? 

You think this is funny?



> “There were numerous reports of death threats, both in person and by mail, and of bomb threats … Other examples were: ‘You’d better keep an eye on your children’; ‘stated he would kill me if his child dies in hospital’; ‘threat to kill me by telephone at home – call taken by my seven-year-old daughter’; ‘I will destroy you’; ‘wife received phone calls saying “I am going to kill you or one of your family”; ‘petrol poured through letter box’.”


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 24, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> Full circle from how to make a simple goat's cheese to this.
> Is mindfulness making us ill?


that's actually not a bad article - it points out how responsibility for their stress and illness is increasingly passed on to employees, how a one-size-fits-all cost-cutting approach to mental health care is damaging to some people, etc.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 24, 2016)

Maggot said:


> So you're in favour of violence?
> 
> You think this is funny?


This people are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. If they don't like it, quite the fucking job.


----------



## Maggot (Jan 24, 2016)

emanymton said:


> This people are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. If they don't like it, quite the fucking job.


Only some of them. Don't tar them all with the same brush.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 24, 2016)

Maggot said:


> So you're in favour of violence?
> 
> You think this is funny?



It depends, doesn't it? I think that holding any member of the Tories or Progress or the Lib Dems directly responsible for mass hardship and death is reasonable. They talk about 'necessary hard decisions' but they aren't necessary, except as a means to make them richer and us poorer, and for them they aren't hard. Perhaps if they have to make these decisions with the threat of at least some pushback  their mind then they will stop making them.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 24, 2016)

Maggot said:


> Only some of them. Don't tar them all with the same brush.


99% of them. 

Anyway I expect most of them to be massively overstating the issue and or overreacting to pretty minor instances.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 24, 2016)

Maggot said:


> So you're in favour of violence?
> 
> You think this is funny?



Of course it isn't "funny" when someone else reaps the fury that the MP has sown, and it isn't funny when (often mentally-ill) constituents fixate on their MP as the source of their problems.
The fact is though, that an MP is a highly-visible representative of a system that routinely fucks people over so badly, that constituents are driven to the edge of acceptable behaviour, and sometimes beyond. Imagine, for example, that you've visited your MP's surgery several times over a few years about a specific issue you have. Now imagine that the MP, who's given you a few years-worth of anodyne reassurances that they're sorting out your problem, votes for legislation that sets back your issue even further. 
I'm not convinced that violent language isn't appropriate in such circumstances, and such circumstances aren't rare. Ask any of my neighbours with regard to the behaviour of our MP.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 24, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Of course it isn't "funny" when someone else reaps the fury that the MP has sown, and it isn't funny when (often mentally-ill) constituents fixate on their MP as the source of their problems.
> The fact is though, that an MP is a highly-visible representative of a system that routinely fucks people over so badly, that constituents are driven to the edge of acceptable behaviour, and sometimes beyond. Imagine, for example, that you've visited your MP's surgery several times over a few years about a specific issue you have. Now imagine that the MP, who's given you a few years-worth of anodyne reassurances that they're sorting out your problem, votes for legislation that sets back your issue even further.
> I'm not convinced that violent language isn't appropriate in such circumstances, and such circumstances aren't rare. Ask any of my neighbours with regard to the behaviour of our MP.



It's also a bit rich that MPs are complaining that people are aiming their ire at them given how much time they and their fellow handmaidens in the media spend on ensuring that ire is aimed at immigrants, the disabled, the unemployed, Muslims etc


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 24, 2016)

J Ed said:


> It depends, doesn't it? I think that holding any member of the Tories or Progress or the Lib Dems directly responsible for mass hardship and death is reasonable. They talk about 'necessary hard decisions' but they aren't necessary, except as a means to make them richer and us poorer, and for them they aren't hard. Perhaps if they have to make these decisions with the threat of at least some pushback  their mind then they will stop making them.



It's very rare that the "hard decisions" made by MPs have a direct effect on them and theirs. Use of power is something *they* exercise on *us*, not on themselves.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 24, 2016)

J Ed said:


> It's also a bit rich that MPs are complaining that people are aiming their ire at them given how much time they and their fellow handmaidens in the media spend on ensuring that ire is aimed at immigrants, the disabled, the unemployed, Muslims etc



Quite.
There's an old cliché: "With power comes responsibility". Our politicians take little or no responsibility for the consequences of the power they exert on us, simply transfer that responsibility, and the violent behaviour of a tiny minority of their constituents is blowback for that shirking of responsibility.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 24, 2016)

Bingo!
My parents-in-law have gone back on a promise to give us their house


----------



## brogdale (Jan 24, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Quite.
> There's an old cliché: "With power comes responsibility". Our politicians take little or no responsibility for the consequences of the power they exert on us, simply transfer that responsibility, and the violent behaviour of a tiny minority of their constituents is blowback for that shirking of responsibility.


Yes, added to which the cunt trolls us with this sub-header for his piece...


> *You don’t abuse your GP. So why do it to your MP?*


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Yes, added to which the cunt trolls us with this sub-header for his piece...
> 
> 
> 
> > *You don't abuse your GP. So why do it to your MP?*



There's an idea for a slogan for anyone campaigning against an incumbent next election:
*
You don't let your GP abuse you. So why let your MP?*

(might not go down so well in Harold Shipman's old catchment area...)


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2016)

My parents-in-law have gone back on a promise to give us their house


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2016)

belboid said:


> My parents-in-law have gone back on a promise to give us their house



Shit the fucking bed.

Can we close the thread now? How much worse could it possibly get?


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 26, 2016)




----------



## gosub (Jan 26, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Shit the fucking bed.
> 
> Can we close the thread now? How much worse could it possibly get?


Vote Corbyn get General Melchet


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 26, 2016)

gosub said:


> Vote Corbyn get General Melchet



Betteridge's Law.


----------



## gosub (Jan 26, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Betteridge's Law.




were it true, they wouldn't use ARRSE to plan it, and the thing about the 70's one being froth, lets just say 30year rule is minimum.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 26, 2016)

gosub said:


> Vote Corbyn get General Melchet


do you mean general sir anthony cecil hogmanay melchett?


----------



## gosub (Jan 26, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> do you mean general sir anthony cecil hogmanay melchett?


KCB


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2016)

Twelve words to say at a job interview – and 12 to avoid at all costs

I have the most recommended comment on this piece of genius. Shame I couldn't spell 'there'll'


----------



## Zabo (Jan 26, 2016)

Going down the pan it certainly is:

"Yesterday, Guardian Media Group revealed that it has lost more than £100m over the last year. It has spent £80m of its £840m trust fund and a further £20m has evaporated apparently due to falling investment values.

Meanwhile, The Times and Sunday Times are (as I understand it) in profit.

The paywall is not the only factor. But yesterday’s disastrous news that Guardian News and Media will have to cut 20 per cent of its budget, or £54m, is a blow to its open journalism model.

The Guardian’s alternative to subscriptions, membership, does not appear to have worked.

Devoted as Guardian readers no doubt are, it seems that many balk at the idea of paying £15 a month in exchange for priority booking and a discount on attending Guardian events. The thing they value most, The Guardian’s journalism, is provided for free."

While 'open' Guardian faces financial meltdown, paywalled Times is breaking even | Press Gazette


----------



## J Ed (Jan 28, 2016)

The evidence suggests I was completely wrong about tuition fees


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 28, 2016)

is it a rule that there must be an anti corbyn dig by the second or third paragraph of every guardian article now


----------



## J Ed (Jan 28, 2016)

You would think that an 'evidence-based' (there it is again) science writer would be aware of the difference between causation and correlation but no.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 28, 2016)

J Ed said:


> You would think that an 'evidence-based' (there it is again) science writer would be aware of the difference between causation and correlation but no.



I'd like to see Ben Goldacre's take on that article's fatuous, superficial reading of the results. Apart from the key point you've made, the headline figures hide, or at least tell us nothing about, major issues such as social stratification between subjects/institutions based on cost: I know staff of more than one institution who have evidence that that's happening in relation to their own admissions, but I don't know whether it bears out at a national level. And I'd like to know what the percentages look like in relation to total number of university places as well as as a percentage of UK population.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 28, 2016)

Zabo said:


> Going down the pan it certainly is:
> 
> "Yesterday, Guardian Media Group revealed that it has lost more than £100m over the last year. It has spent £80m of its £840m trust fund and a further £20m has evaporated apparently due to falling investment values.
> 
> ...



It's interesting that the 'wheels have come off' since March last year. I'm sure there's some truth in the reasons given there but I wonder what effect their rather unusual marketing tactic of patronising, sneering at and hectoring a huge chunk of their traditional readership on a daily basis has had.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 28, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Bingo!
> My parents-in-law have gone back on a promise to give us their house



Imagine having to live in a London flat with no garden. Poor souls. The photo showed an estate agents in Manchester, which used to be the home of the Guardian, but is now a place they may very well believe is in the Midlands (and doesn't deserve its own forum).


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 28, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's interesting that the 'wheels have come off' since March last year. I'm sure there's some truth in the reasons given there but I wonder what effect their rather unusual marketing tactic of patronising, sneering at and hectoring a huge chunk of their traditional readership on a daily basis has had.


It's like Rusbridger curled out a massive steaming turd into a filing cabinet before he left, and Viner has only just opened that drawer after weeks of not quite being able to place where the strange smell was coming from


----------



## stavros (Jan 30, 2016)

I was watching a French review of the international press earlier and they cited a Guardian article about the Zika virus. However, they wonderfully pronounced the organ's name "Gwardian", possibly deliberately.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 30, 2016)

*Do you employ a nanny? Then it’s time to pay into their pension*




> Sarah Rogers says: “I don’t mind paying into a scheme for my nanny as I think it’s important that everyone benefits from a pension when they retire. But, on a practical level, trying to balance a job and two small kids, it does feel like just another paperwork headache.”


​


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 30, 2016)

stavros said:


> I was watching a French review of the international press earlier and they cited a Guardian article about the Zika virus. However, they wonderfully pronounced the organ's name "Gwardian", possibly deliberately.


 
Comme ci, comme ça

*SHRUGS*


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Comme ci, comme ça
> 
> *SHRUGS*



Bof.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 31, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Bof.


*Coqs le gun*

PAN! PAN! TAGADA!!!


----------



## hot air baboon (Feb 1, 2016)

*Comment Isn’t Free: Guardian to CLOSE Comments On Articles About ‘Race, Immigration and Islam’*

by RAHEEM KASSAM1 Feb 2016

Article posted on Breitbart

“A new strategy is aiming to counter an unacceptable level of toxic commentary on our website”, an opinion piece began in yesterday’s Observer – the Sunday edition of the Guardian newspaper.

The article, written by the Observer’s “reader’s editor” Stephen Pritchard, outlines how the paper – which recently announced a massive cost cutting exercise – is going to start censoring its readers on articles about race, immigration, and Islam.

“We are living in an age of rage,” the piece begins, going on to explain that because “People are angry with government, with media, with religion, with migration, with Europe, [and] with big business”, the paper will no longer tolerate its readers expressing these views “below the line” on its website; ironically named “Comment is Free”.

The name comes from Charles Prestwich Scott, once editor of what was once called the Manchester Guardian – now just the Guardian. The late Liberal Member of Parliament apparently always said that “comment is free, but facts are sacred”.

Now it appears that comment is scared too. In the words of Pritchard, the Guardian has long sought to “curate a reasoned debate” instead of allowing for free speech (barring threats, etc). He bemoans the use of the comments section for “propaganda posting”, although the Guardian is notorious for allowing this behaviour above the line, even promoting anti-Israel material written by the leader of the terrorist outfit Hamas. They had to close the comments on that op-ed too.

The paper has accused other news outlets of “propagandising” for causes that don’t fit its worldview – as they did with Breitbart News last year. They closed the comments on that article too.

Pritchard claims to get as many as “65,000” comments per day from people “who feel they have an inalienable right to comment”.

He goes on to quote Guardian journalists who seemingly loathe their readers, urging them to adopt different “tones” in their comments.

Mary Hamilton, the paper’s executive editor “for audience, overseeing participation, loyalty and reach” says that “Certain subjects – race, immigration and Islam in particular – attract an unacceptable level of toxic commentary”. She adds: “The overwhelming majority of these comments tend towards racism, abuse of vulnerable subjects, author abuse and trolling, and the resulting conversations below the line bring very little value but cause consternation and concern among both our readers and our journalists.”

Ms. Hamilton herself has written: “the Guardian took the decision to cut down the number of places where we open comments on stories relating to a few contentious subjects – particularly migration and race. The aim isn’t to stop comments appearing at all, but rather to enable us to manage them more effectively, keep a closer watch on the conversation, feed back what’s being said, and make sure the discussion is constructive and not abusive. We hope it’ll help us to be responsible hosts, essentially.”

The paper probably doesn’t quite get the irony of claiming that “Comment is Free” while dictating on what terms its readership should be able to discuss a topic, but this hasn’t stopped Ms. Hamilton and Mr. Pritchard stomping all over C.P. Scott’s legacy. His is often quoted as having said “Comment is Free but Facts Are Sacred”, but the entire quote is as follows:

“A newspaper is of necessity something of a monopoly, and its first duty is to shun the temptations of monopoly. Its primary office is the gathering of news. At the peril of its soul it must see that the supply is not tainted. Neither in what it gives, nor in what it does not give, nor in the mode of presentation must the unclouded face of truth suffer wrong. Comment is free, but facts are sacred.”

With its latest move, the Guardian is embracing its monopoly over its readership, especially in “what it does not give” – though in a growing market of news and opinion, it is a perhaps a false monopoly that will hasten the paper’s decline.

Mr. Hamilton states, as if her job is to create a “safe space” for her journalists: “Writers who touch on tricky subjects – race, gender, Israel, migration – or whose work reaches an unexpectedly broad audience can often find themselves on the receiving end of abuse and agenda trolling as well as reasoned debate and criticism.”

Mr Pritchard asserts: “It’s a move that I’m sure will be welcomed, not only by journalists but by the many thousands of readers who already contribute constructively to positive debates, offering personal experience, considered opinion and, of course, constructive criticism of our journalism.”

Or people will just go somewhere they’re not censored. Like here.


----------



## killer b (Feb 1, 2016)

they can close all their comments for all I care.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 1, 2016)

I've studiously ignored anything in the Guardian featuring the phrase "comment is free" in print or online and haven't felt I've missed out on anything.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 1, 2016)

That would be a reference to The readers’ editor on… handling comments below the line | Stephen Pritchard where they say they are going to close comments on articles on some topics because they get shitloads of racist trolls on them. Which is pretty accurate. I'm sure Breitbart readers know this generally as I suspect there is a strong correlation between the two.

A lot of people recently have been saying that "don't read the comments" is a bad statement to make—if you have comment sections, either moderate them properly (which in the case of the Guardian is going to be quite hard given the volume) or close them, don't leave them full of horrible shite. In fact the Guardian's previous comment section incarnation had to be closed because of the weight of right-wing US trolling going on.


----------



## Cerv (Feb 1, 2016)

hot air baboon said:


> With its latest move, the Guardian is embracing its monopoly over its readership,


I wonder what he thinks monopoly means


----------



## hot air baboon (Feb 1, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> if you have comment sections, either moderate them properly (which in the case of the Guardian is going to be quite hard given the volume) or close them, don't leave them full of horrible shite.



.....depends if you batch-mod before allowing comments ( or as many as you can check ) to drop through or have free-for-all posting with real time modding which would be alot more onerous....at the very least it appears to bolster those propagating the oft-heard narrative about not being able to discuss certain issues....


----------



## killer b (Feb 1, 2016)

Who give a shit what they think?


----------



## hot air baboon (Feb 1, 2016)

....because I actually quite like reading comments...sometimes in preference to the articles...and refusing to allow people to discuss controversial subjects looks cowardly and like a cop-out....


----------



## killer b (Feb 1, 2016)

They lost a hundred million quid last year, they need to make some savings somewhere. They can probably get rid of an entire department of interns if they don't have to moderate the racists...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 1, 2016)

Maybe they're planning to put them onto moderating the misogynists, instead. Not sure that's going to be easy either.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 2, 2016)

Democratic race against Sanders?


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 6, 2016)

(even an article about improved state schools turns into a pro-Tory and privilege wank piece)


----------



## stavros (Feb 6, 2016)

What would be people's reactions were the Graun's website content to go to subscription, à la The Times? I only ask because I often read their site during my lunch break on my work laptop and get thoroughly pissed off with having to wait for the fucking ads to load before I can read the actual content (and no, I'm not able to download an ad-blocker on my work machine). I'd be prepared to pay a small fee to sign in to a ad-free site. Rusbridger was apparently very against a paywall, but he's in the most part gone now, so time for a rethink?

I did read the other day that it's the second most visited English paper site, presumably after the Daily Fail?


----------



## J Ed (Feb 6, 2016)

stavros said:


> What would be people's reactions were the Graun's website content to go to subscription, à la The Times? I only ask because I often read their site during my lunch break on my work laptop and get thoroughly pissed off with having to wait for the fucking ads to load before I can read the actual content (and no, I'm not able to download an ad-blocker on my work machine). I'd be prepared to pay a small fee to sign in to a ad-free site. Rusbridger was apparently very against a paywall, but he's in the most part gone now, so time for a rethink?
> 
> I did read the other day that it's the second most visited English paper site, presumably after the Daily Fail?



lol I would not pay anything for their shit


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 6, 2016)

J Ed said:


> lol I would not pay anything for their shit


I have seriously considered getting an online sub to the Financial Times in the past (haven't yet, but might yet do so) - but the Guardian? It is to laugh.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 6, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> I have seriously considered getting an online sub to the Financial Times in the past (haven't yet, but might yet do so) - but the Guardian? It is to laugh.


FT does have a limited, free access option...if you're happy to give a socky email address.


----------



## paolo (Feb 7, 2016)

Great news for this thread.

The Guardian - on the basis of posts - is urban's most hated newspaper.

They'll be fucked in a few years.

Guardian News & Media to cut costs by 20%

Parties in the streets. Murdoch for all.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 7, 2016)

paolo said:


> Great news for this thread.
> 
> The Guardian - on the basis of posts - is urban's most hated newspaper.
> 
> ...


You're late to the party

Why the Guardian is going down the pan!


----------



## J Ed (Feb 7, 2016)

paolo said:


> Great news for this thread.
> 
> The Guardian - on the basis of posts - is urban's most hated newspaper.
> 
> ...



Are you a graunid journo?


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 7, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Are you a graunid journo?


Are you Rubbisher in disguise, even?


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 8, 2016)

Shilling for the 'insurance model' of healthcare provision.  Trolling, or boiling the frog?

When it comes to saving the NHS, insurance needn't be a dirty word | Christopher Smallwood


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 8, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> Shilling for the 'insurance model' of healthcare provision.  Trolling, or boiling the frog?
> 
> When it comes to saving the NHS, insurance needn't be a dirty word | Christopher Smallwood





> ‘Free at the point of use’ has had its day. Other European countries use alternative models without the poor suffering, so why can’t we?



Not why can't we arsehole, why _should _we when the only problems with the old NHS model have been caused by political meddling and a deliberate lack of funding 

Don't think this prick is even trolling. These guardian clowns genuinely seem to believe in all this neoliberal blairite codswallop.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 8, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not why can't we arsehole, why _should _we when the only problems with the old NHS model have been caused by political meddling and a deliberate lack of funding
> 
> Don't think this prick is even trolling. These guardian clowns genuinely seem to believe in all this neoliberal blairite codswallop.


its great watching the future of the nhs earnestly debated by cunts who are on BUPA or would be and could afford it if the NHS wasn't decent and free


----------



## J Ed (Feb 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> its great watching the future of the nhs earnestly debated by cunts who are on BUPA or would be and could afford it if the NHS wasn't decent and free



Can't wait for the Big Society so that we can see this happening here

Click here to support Anan's Cancer Fight ! by Anan Zhuang
Click here to support Homeless in NC with cancer  by Cynthia Gallagher
Click here to support Sheri Thomas' Cancer Treatment Fund by Ana King


----------



## J Ed (Feb 8, 2016)

‘My life is basically over’ – 14 days on a sugar-free diet


----------



## paolo (Feb 9, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> You're late to the party
> 
> Why the Guardian is going down the pan!



Sooner finished! Party central bro!


----------



## gosub (Feb 9, 2016)

_

"European shares, particularly banks, take their cue from sliding Asian markets


 A college student at a stock exchange in Fujian province, China. Photograph: China Stringer Network/Reuters"_


Chinese stock market closed all week for New Year holiday, and red the colour of up on Chinese markets


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 9, 2016)

J Ed said:


> ‘My life is basically over’ – 14 days on a sugar-free diet


Moore reminds me of Veronica Crabtree off of South Park:


----------



## NoXion (Feb 9, 2016)

J Ed said:


> ‘My life is basically over’ – 14 days on a sugar-free diet



She might have felt better if she hadn't dropped so many carbs. Yes, too much of them can be bad for you, but there's no good reason to get rid of stuff like the wholegrain baguette (or at least that's what it looks like), especially if you are already reducing your sugar intake. Or stuff like lentils. Lentils FFS. What the fuck is wrong with lentils? Or peas?


----------



## campanula (Feb 9, 2016)

Didn't really read any of it apart from the list of forbidden foods at the end....which is more or less the sum of my entire food choices. There really is no life without potatoes.


or biscuits


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2016)

'This is awful': How Beyoncé turned down song from Coldplay's Chris Martin


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 9, 2016)

J Ed said:


> ‘My life is basically over’ – 14 days on a sugar-free diet


She's a Grade A fuckwit, that woman.


----------



## The Pale King (Feb 9, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> She's a Grade A fuckwit, that woman.


 
TBH I almost feel sorry for her - coming up with that kind of shit week in week out while telling yourself you're a writer doing something worthwhile must be exhausting and demoralising.

*Almost*...


----------



## stavros (Feb 9, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> 'This is awful': How Beyoncé turned down song from Coldplay's Chris Martin



Or she consciously uncoupled herself from it.


----------



## Buckaroo (Feb 10, 2016)

Eating your placenta – is it healthy or just weird?


----------



## NoXion (Feb 10, 2016)

Mmm. Placenta sandwiches.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 11, 2016)




----------



## bi0boy (Feb 12, 2016)

Being in the EU is just like the Norman invasion: The Levellers and the Diggers were the original Eurosceptics


----------



## mk12 (Feb 12, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Being in the EU is just like the Norman invasion: The Levellers and the Diggers were the original Eurosceptics


What's wrong with that article?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 12, 2016)

> The BBC presenter John Humphrys has spent his career giving politicians the rap, but Radio 4 listeners will have been surprised to hear him trying his hand at the musical variety.





> Humphrys then introduced the next item, Thought for the Day, in the style of Skepta. “And we is now going to have thought for de day done in that way,” he “raps”.



John Humphrys turns grime rapper on Today programme

*GAGS*


----------



## J Ed (Feb 12, 2016)

Act like a Tory man that's not me (it might be me it could be me)


----------



## killer b (Feb 12, 2016)

After some Humphries travesty yesterday morning (can't remember what it was about), he moved into pole position in the KB hate list. What a cunt.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 12, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> John Humphrys turns grime rapper on Today programme
> 
> *GAGS*



That was terrible


----------



## J Ed (Feb 13, 2016)

Farage’s vile views are dominating the Europhobe pitch | Nick Cohen



> But nearly 4 million people voted for Ukip. They were the “left-behinds” – the losers, who have been hit by conservative economics and liberal multiculturalism.



Centrist politics thrives on misanthropy these days.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 14, 2016)

None more _Obbo_:

Will you marry me? A Valentine's Day proposal – on a magazine cover



> ...Katie was 28 and living in New York. She was “doing New York dating”, which was “cut-throat”, when James, a friend of a friend, got in touch. He was going to be in Manhattan. Would she like to have dinner? They’d met at a party years before and since then James “knew. It was her...James flew back to London the following day, leaving Katie wondering whether it might be possible to continue a relationship across 3,500 miles. James returned six weeks later for their first proper date, and “we laughed for three days”. “With him,” says Katie, “I felt I could finally be myself.” In a Brooklyn nightclub at 4am he told her he loved her. On the flight home, to the embarrassment of the BA cabin crew: “I cried.”





> ...James grew up with his mum in rural west Wales. He was “wedgied by the rugby team,” she giggles, and didn’t get on a plane until he was 18. In Shropshire, Katie was more “privileged”: a big family, a big house, horses, boarding school.





> ...Recently James put their travel miles into a carbon footprint calculator and worked out that their long-distance relationship has effectively used up three whole worlds. He feels guilty. He promises to plant a forest to make up for it. Do I get let off, he asks, “because it was for love?”





> ...We asked six people to help us create the ultimate engagement gifts for James and Katie, from a ring by jewellery designer Solange Azagury-Partridge to a poem by Carol Ann Duffy, not to mention chocolates and perfume.


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 15, 2016)

If the Guardian dislikes privately educated Oxbridge types, why does it hire so many? | Coffee House


----------



## Sirena (Feb 15, 2016)

BigMoaner said:


> If the Guardian dislikes privately educated Oxbridge types, why does it hire so many? | Coffee House


That's a bit of a journalistic con, that story...

Someone in the comments section of a Guardian article had done a phenomenal piece of journalistic research on Guardian writers, their private education and the fees they paid for that education.  Then the Spectator bod (Steerpike) just pirated that for his own article...


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Feb 15, 2016)

NoXion said:


> ...lentils. Lentils FFS. What the fuck is wrong with lentils?



Is the Guardian line no longer pro-lentil? I thought lentils were the main form of sustenance for Guardianistas?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Feb 15, 2016)

Or am I thinking of Mung Beans, whatever the fuck they are?


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 15, 2016)

in the 90s it coscus, don't know about now. way back in the 80s, 78% of breakfasts eaten at desks were ethically sourced muesli, know that for a fact.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2016)




----------



## stavros (Feb 15, 2016)

Saturday's edition had a supplement entitled "2.4 Children", ostensibly about parenting and family life but more than half of it seemed to be adverts for private schools. It also had a non-advertorial piece on home tutoring which wasn't overly critical of it.


----------



## dendrite (Feb 15, 2016)

Sirena said:


> That's a bit of a journalistic con, that story...
> 
> Someone in the comments section of a Guardian article had done a phenomenal piece of journalistic research on Guardian writers, their private education and the fees they paid for that education.  Then the Spectator bod (Steerpike) just pirated that for his own article...



Relieved to find he acknowledged it. Lovely to see that genre of CIF post which embarrasses their ATL writers simply by research and sincerity, turned directly against them:


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2016)

Who cares about that if the quality of the content is good though?


----------



## YouSir (Feb 15, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Who cares about that if the quality of the content is good though?



How often do a load of children or privilege offer content that's true and good for the rest of us and not just them? Or you may be being sarcastic. I've had a drink, who knows.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2016)

YouSir said:


> How often do a load of children or privilege offer content that's true and good for the rest of us and not just them? Or you may be being sarcastic. I've had a drink, who knows.


The content is shit because they posh. Have we never encountered  each other before?


----------



## gosub (Feb 15, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Farage’s vile views are dominating the Europhobe pitch | Nick Cohen
> 
> 
> 
> Centrist politics thrives on misanthropy these days.




Unfortunately there's enough truth in that article to resonate.   Not that I think Mr Cohen gives a shit about sovereignty, and overlooks the global bodies UK would gain its seat on that shape EU policy


----------



## YouSir (Feb 15, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> The content is shit because they posh. Have we never encountered  each other before?



As I said, I've had a drink and you can be a cryptic fucker at times. I accept all blame and place none.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 15, 2016)

dendrite said:


> Relieved to find he acknowledged it. Lovely to see that genre of CIF post which embarrasses their ATL writers simply by research and sincerity, turned directly against them:
> View attachment 83482


what article was it on?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2016)

YouSir said:


> As I said, I've had a drink and you can be a cryptic fucker at times. I accept all blame and place none.


You are absolved. Wish i could have a drink.


----------



## dendrite (Feb 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> what article was it on?



Just had a look - it's this one, the top voted comment:

'Poshness tests' block working-class applicants at top companies

With an addendum!


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 15, 2016)

dendrite said:


> Relieved to find he acknowledged it. Lovely to see that genre of CIF post which embarrasses their ATL writers simply by research and sincerity, turned directly against them:
> View attachment 83482


christ.


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 15, 2016)

dendrite said:


> Just had a look - it's this one, the top voted comment:
> 
> 'Poshness tests' block working-class applicants at top companies
> 
> ...


what is it with posh folk's barnets. LOOK at that hair.


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 15, 2016)

dendrite said:


> Just had a look - it's this one, the top voted comment:
> 
> 'Poshness tests' block working-class applicants at top companies
> 
> ...


the thing is, that's just the guardian. it'll be the same across all the papers. and the top of hte police, the rest of the media, law, medicine etc. private education is probably one of the greatest injustices in our society. it's exactly the same logic as doping in sport. With far worse consequences. People who send their kids to private school should be ashamed.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 16, 2016)

_Guardian_ goes up to eleven:

Experience: I fought off a burglar with a sword



> ...I was also very aware that I probably shouldn’t really hit him with the sword; that I should act proportionately.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 16, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> _Guardian_ goes up to eleven:
> 
> Experience: I fought off a burglar with a sword


i wonder how many people have an auld cavalry sword knocking round their house these days.


----------



## Sea Star (Feb 16, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> Eating your placenta – is it healthy or just weird?


are weird and healthy mutually exclusive then?


----------



## Sea Star (Feb 16, 2016)

campanula said:


> Didn't really read any of it apart from the list of forbidden foods at the end....which is more or less the sum of my entire food choices. There really is no life without potatoes.
> 
> 
> or biscuits


It's a weird list. I'm doing a sugar free/ carb free diet and its working really well. From that forbidden foods list I'm still consuming the following: 

alcohol; prepared meats such as ham, salami, sausages, pâtés; canned foods – eg chopped tomatoes; prepared salad dressings; prepared sauces; prepared soups; carrots; sweet potatoes; peas; instant gravy; sauces

The amount of sugar in these products is so small it seems to make no material difference to whether i lose weight or not. I suppose if I drank a huge amount of alcohol i might have to change that but the odd glass of wine is neither here nor there!


----------



## Sea Star (Feb 16, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> She's a Grade A fuckwit, that woman.


She came out as a TERF on Twitter too. Shame really.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 16, 2016)

Polly Vernon: 'All the attention came from women telling me how stupid my book was'

Ha. Shame.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 16, 2016)

AuntiStella said:


> She came out as a TERF on Twitter too. Shame really.


should be terfed out


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 17, 2016)

1) Do we really care;
2) They're all doing well, thankyou.

Unlike some of those that were on the receiving end of the shit you helped the Tories enact in coalition.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2016)

how many are 'on the board of firms their policies gladhanded while fucking everyone else' or 'on the after dinner speaking circuit at 15k a go'


----------



## gosub (Feb 18, 2016)

This EU referendum doesn’t matter. But the next one will | Simon Jenkins

Article 50 is not a mechanism for leveraging better terms for staying in


Article reckons we can then use Article 50 to negotiate Associate Membership, as well as the Article not being a tool for that Associate membership is what EUrope is gearing up for anyway (if we vote IN) with a more Federal structure for those that need it, ie EUrozone.....Thats what the referendum should be about :whether there is sufficient gravitas of non EUro members to bother staying in or will we just get sucked along in Federal EUropes wake like some European Puerto Rico.  


Its miles better than Immigrants! Thousands of them!, but its in the a little knowledge is a dangerous thing category.


----------



## pengaleng (Feb 18, 2016)

cus it's journos are the type of dickheads that come here to find stories?


----------



## gosub (Feb 18, 2016)

tribal_princess said:


> cus it's journos are the type of dickheads that come here to find stories?



the mcmuffin maker?


----------



## pengaleng (Feb 18, 2016)

aint got a scooby


----------



## gosub (Feb 18, 2016)

tribal_princess said:


> aint got a scooby





Johnny Vodka said:


> The breakfast maker
> 
> Hamilton Beach Electric Breakfast Sandwich Maker - Red: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home






gosub said:


> Kitchen gadgets review: sandwich maker – the Egg McNuffin



Think that owes more to Johhny Vodka than their marketing department  going lets send this to the Guardian for shits and giggles


----------



## D'wards (Feb 19, 2016)

Horrendously stupid article. I'm getting well sick of The Guardian, as a long-term reader

This is a black conversation: give us the space to be heard | Eliza Anyangwe


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2016)

D'wards said:


> Horrendously stupid article. I'm getting well sick of The Guardian, as a long-term reader
> 
> This is a black conversation: give us the space to be heard | Eliza Anyangwe


Why is it stupid?


----------



## D'wards (Feb 19, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Why is it stupid?


Because it is saying there isn't enough room in the world for white people to voice their supporting opinions on black issues.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 19, 2016)

D'wards said:


> Because it is saying there isn't enough room in the world for white people to voice their supporting opinions on black issues.



No, it's saying that with regard to "black issues", it's right that black views are given primacy, rather than being an inconvenience to the views of white liberals.
The author could have worded it better, though.


----------



## D'wards (Feb 19, 2016)

> So the next time a black artist (which includes Beyoncé, if you’re still unsure) uses a captive audience of millions to address some fresh injustice (which will surely come), if you feel a burning urge to say how much you admire them and explain to the world the socio-economic realities that make such creative protest necessary, heed these sage words from a friend: stand aside. It’s not your struggle. I’d rather read two black commentators espousing opposing views.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 19, 2016)

STEP BACK
SHUT UP


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2016)

seems fair enough to me


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 19, 2016)

surely it's the most truthful views that get primacy, now matter who is saying them? what if white dude's view is better/more truthful than the black dudes? should it be dismissed. it's a nonsense.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Feb 19, 2016)




----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 19, 2016)

BigMoaner said:


> surely it's the most truthful views that get primacy, now matter who is saying them? what if white dude's view is better/more truthful than the black dudes? should it be dismissed. it's a nonsense.


Well even if you accept the above, you've only covered factual issues. There's plenty of issues where there is no _truth.
_
But giving views of specific groups primacy doesn't mean that no one else can discuss the issue or that people have to agree with that view, it just ensures that the group is listened to.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 19, 2016)

Think of what you're aligning with as "whitesplaining" - white people telling black people what is and isn't legitimate for them to talk about.
FFS, I thought we got beyond this wiberal shite 30 years ago. Another social advance we have to "thank" identity politics for ruining!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 19, 2016)

BigMoaner said:


> surely it's the most truthful views that get primacy, now matter who is saying them? what if white dude's view is better/more truthful than the black dudes? should it be dismissed. it's a nonsense.



"Understanding is a three-edged sword - your side, my side and the truth."

Ambassador Kosh.

Everything is a matter of perspective, in other words.


----------



## Greasy Boiler (Feb 20, 2016)

Gonna have to like that for the Kosh reference alone.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 20, 2016)

says Daniel Boffey; former Daily Mail smearmeister.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 20, 2016)

They all shit in the same latrine


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> says Daniel Boffey; former Daily Mail smearmeister.



What?


----------



## JimW (Feb 21, 2016)

Beast as in beast wing.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 21, 2016)

another day, another anti corbyn piece from nick cohen
Our one-party state allows bunglers such as Chris Grayling to thrive | Nick Cohen

I like the bits where he likens Momentum to mad cannibals.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 21, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> another day, another anti corbyn piece from nick cohen
> Our one-party state allows bunglers such as Chris Grayling to thrive | Nick Cohen
> 
> I like the bits where he likens Momentum to mad cannibals.



Probably seemed like a good article to him when he was drunk


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 21, 2016)

J Ed said:


> They all shit in the same latrine



They all *eat* from the same latrine.


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 23, 2016)

Gruniad said:
			
		

> In a joint interview with the Guardian and the Financial Times in Washington, he emphasised that Americans must make their own decision but made clear his scepticism about Sanders, the leftwing senator whose challenge to wealthy elites has energised young supporters.
> 
> “It’s very similar to the pitch of Jeremy Corbyn,” Blair said. “Free tuition fees: well, that’s great, but someone’s going to have pay for it. An end to war, but there are wars.”
> 
> The key question, he added, is finding a position “that can get the support to win in order that you can do things for the people that desperately need help”.



That worked well didn't it. Cunt.


----------



## stavros (Feb 23, 2016)

> Free tuition fees: well, that’s great, but someone’s going to have pay for it



If only we had really high-earning public speakers in this country who got their money from dodgy regimes, we could tax the fuck out of them!


----------



## J Ed (Feb 23, 2016)

From the Graunid article



> Former British prime minister Tony Blair: ‘Free tuition fees: well, that’s great, but someone’s going to have pay for it. An end to war, but there are wars.’



Did  you forget how to speak English? You idiotic cunt.


----------



## stavros (Feb 24, 2016)

> An end to war, but there are wars.



Hopefully Mr Chilcot will be able to tell us how they start before the end of the millennium. Let's get those extradition orders sorted with Kazakhstan, Egypt, etc.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 24, 2016)

There are wars, and also trials for war criminals


----------



## J Ed (Feb 26, 2016)

Are you a Corbyn or a Cameron? How voters think about the politics of style 

Ignoring the fact that this is a stupid article, wow these people have expensive clothes.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 26, 2016)

Do most people walk around with items of clothing that are £300+? I don't think I've ever spent more than £80 on any one item of clothing, I suspect that people think I look scruffy though :/


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2016)

> I think I’m one of the smarter dressers at work. I take pride in how I dress. I think it helps my productivity



_As the light goes out on the final day_

I bet he sees himself as disruptive.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 26, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> _As the light goes out on the final day_
> 
> I bet he sees himself as disruptive.



He's an HR manager so it probably does make him more productive since that job is basically just being an arrogant dickhead


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2016)

J Ed said:


> He's an HR manager so it probably does make him more productive since that job is basically just being an arrogant dickhead


Note the jobs of all the people in that piece - they went outside their office where posh on-the-ladder people worked and asked people who looked like posh wankers what they were wearing - the result was posh wankers and people who are desperate to be posh appearing in the article. All bought suits -nothing unplanned either.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 26, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Note the jobs of all the people in that piece - they went outside their office where posh on-the-ladder people worked and asked people who looked like posh wankers what they were wearing - the result was posh wankers and people who are desperate to be posh appearing in the article. All bought suits -nothing unplanned either.



I wonder if Petra would have to settle for a £200 rather than £300 suit if St Mungo’s had a few less workfare slaves to exploit.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Feb 26, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I wonder if Petra would have to settle for a £200 rather than £300 suit if St Mungo’s had a few less workfare slaves to exploit.



Apparently these shoes were £300.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 26, 2016)

We should steal her shoes and walk around in them so we can get to know her


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Feb 26, 2016)

J Ed said:


> We should steal her shoes and walk around in them so we can get to know her



Or just sell them.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2016)

And the _i have to be connected _watch _- i'm too busy to move my arm a bit more._


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2016)

Daren't ask about the shitty pretend  generic mid life crisis  alt-haircut.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 29, 2016)

Oscars red carpet fashion: a retrograde year for Hollywood feminism



> Unless the five-hours-in-make-up, half-starved-to-death thing is an ongoing subversive agitprop immersive theatre piece orchestrated by Reese Witherspoon to make a point about the gender pay gap in Hollywood by illustrating how much harder the women of Hollywood have to work than the men to pass muster on the red carpet. (That would be awesome.)



It's almost as if just because liberal feminism has replaced actual politics with movie reviews that doesn't mean that the people who make the movies haven't replaced just being rich people making money with left-wing politics.


----------



## emanymton (Feb 29, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Do most people walk around with items of clothing that are £300+? I don't think I've ever spent more than £80 on any one item of clothing, I suspect that people think I look scruffy though :/


I bought a rucksack for £80 once, I'm still using it over 15 years latter so I think it was worth it. Other than that I don't think I have ever gone over £50 for a single item, and that would be shoes.


----------



## killer b (Feb 29, 2016)

They love that Reiss shit in that London, eh?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 29, 2016)

BrewDog’s open-source revolution is at the vanguard of postcapitalism






Think this is evidence that we have reached Peak Mason


----------



## killer b (Feb 29, 2016)

He's quite desperate for the world to fit round his thesis isn't he?


----------



## cantsin (Feb 29, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> BrewDog’s open-source revolution is at the vanguard of postcapitalism
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think he's saying much there that's particularly new or interesting, but nothing that isn't basically true / accurate ? (apart from getting his Itunes' and Spotify 'plays' muddled up, again )


----------



## belboid (Feb 29, 2016)

killer b said:


> He's quite desperate for the world to fit round his thesis isn't he?






			
				Paul Mason said:
			
		

> Consider that other burgeoning enterprise: the festival


Well timed comment, Paul


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2016)

every time i look at the guardian website i see 

on stories like

and i think, no i fucking don't want stories like this in my inbox


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 1, 2016)

I've got a "story" for your "inbox", he leered. . .


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> I've got a "story" for your "inbox", he leered. . .




we've got to work that line into an urban story


----------



## Cerv (Mar 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> every time i look at the guardian website i see
> View attachment 84158
> on stories like
> View attachment 84159
> and i think, no i fucking don't want stories like this in my inbox


it's so obnoxious those being inserted right into the article text. can't imagine who at the guardian thought it was a good idea. thankfully easy to add an adblock filter for them though


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 1, 2016)

TBH I never even actually read what those annoying blue capsules said until you just drew attention to them. I guess that means they don't work very well


----------



## stavros (Mar 5, 2016)

I really don't need a fuck-off huge fashion supplement, 75% of which looked like adverts.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 6, 2016)

It's time to clear the way for Ted Cruz to take on Donald Trump | John Stoehr


Shilling for Ted Cruz here


----------



## agricola (Mar 6, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> It's time to clear the way for Ted Cruz to take on Donald Trump | John Stoehr
> 
> 
> Shilling for Ted Cruz here



I'll see you your shilling for Ted Cruz, and raise you this weeks Jess Phillips panegyric:



> In the likes of Phillips, it seems to me, there is hope. Perhaps it really is possible for our legislators to look, sound and even act like us, and yet still have our best interests at heart.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 6, 2016)

agricola said:


> I'll see you your shilling for Ted Cruz, and raise you this weeks Jess Phillips panegyric:


That Jess Phillips piece is fucking terrible.


----------



## agricola (Mar 6, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> That Jess Phillips piece is fucking terrible.



It did stand out, even against the backdrop of all the other_ "Isn't Jess Phillips grand!"_ articles that fill the Guardian nowadays.


----------



## Beermoth (Mar 6, 2016)




----------



## brogdale (Mar 6, 2016)

Beermoth said:


>


How convenient for her.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 6, 2016)

She didn't vote against the welfare cuts.  Fuck her.


----------



## Sue (Mar 6, 2016)

Beermoth said:


>


Should this (ie I've decided if you say x you've lost the argument) not be on the 'How to win an internet argument' thread?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 6, 2016)

Sue said:


> Should this (ie I've decided if you say x you've lost the argument) not be on the 'How to win an internet argument' thread?


May I be the first to declare Philips' rule _*Satanwin's law*_?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 6, 2016)

its not 'the hitler rule' its godwins law

and it was never intended to say he-who-mentions-the-nazis has lost but an observation on how long any given internet argument could go befor old one-ball and his m8s get mentioned


----------



## brogdale (Mar 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> its not 'the hitler rule' its godwins law
> 
> and it was never intended to say he-who-mentions-the-nazis has lost but an observation on how long any given internet argument could go befor old one-ball and his m8s get mentioned


Maybe mis-naming Godwin's law is called the Hitler rule?


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 6, 2016)

Beermoth said:


>


She can get to fuck. Fucking imbecile.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 7, 2016)

The words "neo-liberal" by themselves do not mean anything. The original phrase is "neo-liberal economics". This is a reflection of the post Thatcherite tendency of modern politics to have a monetarist emphasis. This is a negative anti-public spending approach that is also described as "austerity politics". It is thoroughly bad for the economy and working people and the poor in general. Any Labour MP who can go along with this is not someone that I will vote for. There are too many such people still in the Labour Party despite the demise of Blair and his cohorts.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 7, 2016)

Beermoth said:


>



I've heard an increasing number of neoliberals say some sort of variation on this. Funnily enough no non-neoliberals.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 7, 2016)

March 15, and Daily Kos transition to General Election footing



> In general, if you’re resorting to cheap sloganeering like “oligarch” or “warmonger” or “neocon”, you might want to reframe your argument in a more substantive, issue-focused and constructive matter. Again, I’m not interested in furthering the Right’s hate-fueled media machine. If that’s what you want, might I suggest Free Republic?



How DARE intelligent and informed people describe my/my employer's politics accurately. It's just not on!


----------



## brogdale (Mar 7, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I've heard an increasing number of neoliberals say some sort of variation on this. Funnily enough no non-neoliberals.


I've come across this myself on twatter; vermin strongly implying that anyone who uses the term is some sort of tin-foil hat conspiraloon. 
Those of us that like to analyse political-economy through the prism of neoliberalism are clearly on the right track.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 8, 2016)

J Ed said:


> March 15, and Daily Kos transition to General Election footing
> 
> 
> 
> How DARE intelligent and informed people describe my/my employer's politics accurately. It's just not on!


since when was oligarch a slogan? I don't recall any decent chants involving it.
oligarch doesn't even ryhme with anything good. Park, hark, lark. Not really chant material imo


----------



## Santino (Mar 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> since when was oligarch a slogan? I don't recall any decent chants involving it.
> oligarch doesn't even ryhme with anything good. Park, hark, lark. Not really chant material imo


Tidy your park
for the oligarch


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 8, 2016)

work untill you kark
for the oligarch


----------



## fishfinger (Mar 8, 2016)

Stick the oligarchy in the freezer 'cause it's parky!


----------



## cantsin (Mar 8, 2016)

Beermoth said:


>



her schtick is so, so thin...arrogant, over ambitious Blairite in sheeps' clothing


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 9, 2016)

cantsin said:


> her schtick is so, so thin...arrogant, over ambitious Blairite in sheeps' clothing



Yep. Reactionary _schtick_ from a reactionary twat.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 9, 2016)

This millennials feature thing is so patronising and stupid, I also hate the whole millennials vs 'boomers' narrative it's just more divide and rule bullshit that tries to get young people in economic precarity to see grandpa as a useless eater rather than question the tenants of neoliberalism.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 9, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yep. Reactionary _schtick_ from a reactionary twat.


_Twatshticks_ has a nice ring to it, like Sean Connery demonstrating mild opprobrium at you


----------



## Bakunin (Mar 9, 2016)

cantsin said:


> her schtick is so, so thin...arrogant, over ambitious Blairite in sheeps' clothing



If ego were talent she might have something to offer.

Unfortunately for her and her ilk, it isn't.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 9, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> since when was oligarch a slogan? I don't recall any decent chants involving it.
> oligarch doesn't even ryhme with anything good. Park, hark, lark. Not really chant material imo



Listen not to the bark
Of the foul oligarch


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2016)

That stupid millenial quiz 

I hate the word millenial as well like what does it even mean?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2016)

I thought it meant kids born in year 2000 but according to that stupid quiz i'm one and i was born in 1988.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 10, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> That stupid millenial quiz
> 
> I hate the word millenial as well like what does it even mean?


It means the person using it us a dick.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 10, 2016)

I own four boilersuits. I don’t even know where my boiler is | Nell Frizzell



> Call it nostalgia. Call it a disguise. My generation is dressing up like people who have learned a trade, partly out of the shame that we haven’t



?????????


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 10, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I own four boilersuits. I don’t even know where my boiler is | Nell Frizzell
> ?????????



"Of course the fetishisation of the working class is awkward and at times offensive."


----------



## J Ed (Mar 10, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> "Of course the fetishisation of the working class is awkward and at times offensive."



Why is the implication here that an entire generation which will be _worse off_ than their parents is all middle-class?

I just do not recognise any of these things that she is talking about as a situation that I or anyone I know would even think to consider. 

Why is she talking about the working-class like she is writing about a previously undiscovered tribe in the Amazon?

I hate the guardian


----------



## ska invita (Mar 10, 2016)

Fair play to the Guardian for the continuous flagging up of homelessness in London and the UK in general........ i went to the west end a couple of weeks back, almost never go up that way anymore, and it was like going back to the 80s in terms of the amount of street sleepers...havent seen it mentioned anywhere else in the press


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 10, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Fair play to the Guardian for the continuous flagging up of homelessness in London and the UK in general........ i went to the west end a couple of weeks back, almost never go up that way anymore, and it was like going back to the 80s in terms of the amount of street sleepers...havent seen it mentioned anywhere else in the press



Not about the G paper...These guys have been on my radar for a long time now doing great stuff. Far more than food.


----------



## campanula (Mar 10, 2016)

Rutita1 said:


> Not about the G paper...These guys have been on my radar for a long time now doing great stuff. Far more than food.



My daughter does a fortnightly meal for People's Kitchen in Norwich and yep, there have been threats to insist on inspections of premises...because good, free food, cooked with love and care, might be (gasp) dangerous (ffs).
And you are quite right, Ruti - it is about more than food, it is a primal need being met by an engaged community - very empowering.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 11, 2016)

oh noes! bryan adams' guitar defaced 

Bryan Adams' guitar defaced by Egyptian customs


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> oh noes! bryan adams' guitar defaced
> 
> Bryan Adams' guitar defaced by Egyptian customs


 it was his first real six string


----------



## J Ed (Mar 11, 2016)

Port Said move over, a new atrocity is in town


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 11, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> it was his first real six string


He played it 'til his fingers bled.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> That stupid millenial quiz
> 
> I hate the word millenial as well like what does it even mean?


18-35

which includes thee and narrowly me. I don't know what it means beyond that except as a marketing concept.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 11, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 18-35
> 
> which includes thee and narrowly me. I don't know what it means beyond that except as a marketing concept.


Superpowers.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Mar 11, 2016)

Outlet with so many feminist articles casually objectifies men:

Stopovers usually mean dull airport lounges. But in Reykjavik, Icelandair staff will show you their country for the day – for free. Carole Cadwalladr gets a *dishy* pilot who’s a bit of an action man

Iceland’s buddy brilliant stopover scheme


----------



## oryx (Mar 11, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Outlet with so many feminist articles casually objectifies men:



I'm torn between 'yes, it's hypocritical' and 'now you know how women feel'.

But yes, the article is stupidly gushing for a supposedly intelligent paper. I thought 'dishy' died out in about 1978 and 'dashing' in about 1950.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Mar 11, 2016)

oryx said:


> I'm torn between 'yes, it's hypocritical' and 'now you know how women feel'.
> 
> But yes, the article is stupidly gushing for a supposedly intelligent paper. I thought 'dishy' died out in about 1978 and 'dashing' in about 1950.



Not overly bothered about it tbh, but it does seem a bit hypocritical.


----------



## oryx (Mar 11, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not overly bothered about it tbh, but it does seem a bit hypocritical.



It does, I agree - and vacuous. She could have written a much better article without the nauseating gooey bits about the pilot.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2016)

oryx said:


> I'm torn between 'yes, it's hypocritical' and 'now you know how women feel'.
> 
> But yes, the article is stupidly gushing for a supposedly intelligent paper. I thought 'dishy' died out in about 1978 and 'dashing' in about 1950.


I still use dashing to describe a certain clean-cut male hadsomeness. Like Poe Dameron or whatsisface who plays Captain America.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 11, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Outlet with so many feminist articles casually objectifies men:
> 
> Stopovers usually mean dull airport lounges. But in Reykjavik, Icelandair staff will show you their country for the day – for free. Carole Cadwalladr gets a *dishy* pilot who’s a bit of an action man
> 
> Iceland’s buddy brilliant stopover scheme



Why are you bringing this up as a problem? What is wrong with you?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Mar 12, 2016)

Better dishy than fishy, said the flying oligarch.
Come join me in my pond tonight, you'll find it in the park.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Mar 12, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Why are you bringing this up as a problem? What is wrong with you?



I've already said what the issue is, though I'm not crying into my muesli over it.


----------



## Santino (Mar 12, 2016)

It's not really hypocrisy because The Guardian isn't actually a feminist journal.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 12, 2016)

Santino said:


> It's not really hypocrisy because The Guardian isn't actually a feminist journal.


But it's EDITED BY A WUMMUNNN!!!!


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 12, 2016)

Government to Deport White Middle-Class American Guardian Readers


----------



## stavros (Mar 12, 2016)

Another couple of advertorial supplements in this morning's rag, which went straight in the recycling.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 13, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Government to Deport White Middle-Class American Guardian Readers



...first they came for the guys down at the hand car wash place, and I did not complain because I didn't work at the hand car wash place...
...next they came for the curry chefs, and I did not complain because I was not a curry chef... 
... then they came for the online marketing managers, and there was no-one left to sign a 38-degrees petition for me...


----------



## oryx (Mar 13, 2016)

Arch-Blairiite and 'social mobility tsar' Alan Milburn quoted having a whinge on yesterday's front page about how young people can't afford to buy a house these days.

His socially divisive views are based on the perceived advantages of the previous generation.

Nowhere does the piece mention insane property prices being the main factor!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 17, 2016)

Do we have an _Indy_ thread? 

Anyway:

As a death doula here is what I have learnt about death


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 17, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Do we have an _Indy_ thread?
> 
> Anyway:
> 
> As a death doula here is what I have learnt about death


 what's objectionable about that? It's a wise article, though I think I'm one of the 30% who'd rather die in a hospital


----------



## dennisr (Mar 17, 2016)

A hundred editorial jobs go at the Guardian


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 17, 2016)

Dance yourself happy: the rise of the sober rave


----------



## J Ed (Mar 19, 2016)

Why I’m becoming a Jew and why you should, too | Nick Cohen



> Fortunately for my self-respect, I never sank that low. Whenever I hear Jews announce their hatred of Israel’s very existence, I suspect that underneath their loud bombast lies a quiet plea to the Islamists and neo-Nazis who might harm them: “I’m not like the others. Don’t pick on me.”



Non-Jewish person decides to be Jewish in solidarity or whatever despite not being Jewish, calls Jews who think that Israel should comply with international law are self-hating Jews desperate for approval from Islamists and neo-Nazis, gets article outlining these views published in graunid.

I am not Jewish so I don't have the right to say either way but it strikes me that Nick Cohen's article puts him in the ranks of people like Louise Mensch and Julie Burchill as self-declared philosemites whose philosemitism goes so far that it borders on anti-Semitism.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 19, 2016)

and all as a vehicle to smear corbyn as an anti-semite. These people


----------



## bimble (Mar 19, 2016)

Bile reflex will have to be overcome before making any sort of sensible response - could this go in that other thread instead though, the one in which I was laid into (by you?) for my jewish antisemitism re that Laurie P thing?


----------



## Beermoth (Mar 19, 2016)

Corbyn should become a Jew so Nick Cohen can tell us not to be Jews anymore.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 19, 2016)

bimble said:


> Bile reflex will have to be overcome before making any sort of sensible response - could this go in that other thread instead though, the one in which I was laid into (by you?) for my jewish antisemitism re that Laurie P thing?



I didn't think that I was laying into you, if it seemed that way then I apologise for my tone, by saying that you don't have to be a certain religion/ethnicity to be a victim of discrimination against that group, I think that example I gave was Sikhs being shot in Islamophobic attacks.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 19, 2016)

I just looked over it again, I don't think that it was an unreasonable thing to say or that it was an overly aggressive way of saying it. I can see why someone might disagree with me but it certainly wasn't written in anger or anything.


----------



## bimble (Mar 19, 2016)

J Ed no, it's true, your comment there seemed irrelevant & silly to me but you were not 'having a go'.

This article by Cohen* though I need to read it a couple more times before I can trust myself to say anything that I really feel.
*Do you know what cohen means as a name in the weird world of jewishness? It's a really big deal, cos they (and the Levis) were the only families allowed into the inner sanctum of ye olde temple, back in the days, so what he says when he sets himself up as a mouthpiece for all jews (and indeed all right thinking anti-fascist humans, apparently ) carries more weight than a Pennie does.


----------



## mauvais (Mar 23, 2016)

Oh, Guardian.

Family homes for less than £1,500 a month – in pictures


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 23, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Oh, Guardian.
> 
> Family homes for less than £1,500 a month – in pictures


----------



## Nylock (Mar 23, 2016)

fucksake


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Mar 23, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Oh, Guardian.
> 
> Family homes for less than £1,500 a month – in pictures


Sounds like the Guardian is not so much going down the pan as up the market.


----------



## stavros (Mar 23, 2016)

Devoting a front cover fold-out to an ad for Lidl last Saturday wasn't too endearing.


----------



## elbows (Mar 24, 2016)




----------



## NoXion (Mar 24, 2016)

They're only fooling themselves with that one.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 24, 2016)

6,000+ word tl;dr advertorial for alcoholic beverage company.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 24, 2016)

Big interview with London mayoral candidate Zac Goldsmith:

Zac Goldsmith’s fight to be London mayor: ‘I’m up against someone who poses a real danger’

Two product placement-style links in the first three paragraphs


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Mar 24, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Big interview with London mayoral candidate Zac Goldsmith:
> 
> Zac Goldsmith’s fight to be London mayor: ‘I’m up against someone who poses a real danger’
> 
> Two product placement-style links in the first three paragraphs



Crikey! They're not even pretending to be a proper paper now.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2016)

stavros said:


> Devoting a front cover fold-out to an ad for Lidl last Saturday wasn't too endearing.


Yet you actually bought a paper copy


----------



## mauvais (Mar 24, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> 6,000+ word tl;dr advertorial for alcoholic beverage company.


I had my comment deleted.

It said:



> That was a long advertorial.
> 
> I don't know how far along the venture capital road you can travel before everyone agrees that you're not a plucky punk upstart railing against the mega corporations any more, but apparently you can raise at least £25m in private equity before the Graun starts to show any concern.
> 
> ...


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 24, 2016)

mauvais said:


> I had my comment deleted.
> 
> It said:


Not to mention the various ad campaigns objectifying and being sexist towards women. Your comment was fair. Clearly the guardian only like positive bias.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2016)

Here's an article written by a white male journalist about how most journalists are white and male:
British journalism is 94% white and 55% male, survey reveals


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 24, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Here's an article written by a white male journalist about how most journalists are white and male:
> British journalism is 94% white and 55% male, survey reveals


_Yo, dawg, I heard.  .  ._


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2016)

Why, oh why...


----------



## J Ed (Mar 24, 2016)

Hahahahaha


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 24, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> _Yo, dawg, I heard.  .  ._


THE DRIS DONE A MEME!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Why, oh why...


then go Ibis like the rest of us you stuck up cunt


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 24, 2016)

(That's Rob Rensenbrink)


----------



## Libertad (Mar 25, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> View attachment 85027
> 
> 
> (That's Rob Rensenbrink)



ffs


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 25, 2016)

> The atrocities in Brussels happen almost daily on the streets of Baghdad, Aleppo and Damascus. Western missiles and Isis bombs kill more innocents in a week than die in Europe in a year.



No they don't 2000+ people are not killed in these cities every month. 32 000 a year.

And the one comparison that _does _stand up - namely Assad's dropping of thousands of barrel bombs on civilians day after day for year after year resulting in at the very least 11 000 civilian deaths -  is the one left out of Jenkins list of atrocities. I wonder if that had anything to do with his long term support of the regime in that paper?


----------



## Patteran (Mar 25, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> View attachment 85027
> 
> 
> (That's Rob Rensenbrink)



His number's even on his shorts! That's shockingly poor. The most famous number 14 in world football.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2016)

i think we can finally flush the guardian away Experience: I paid to have my daughter kidnapped


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2016)

...not forgetting...


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 25, 2016)

Fucks sakes


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 26, 2016)

uniform of the underdog indeed  thats dog whistle for 'chavvy'


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Mar 26, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i think we can finally flush the guardian away Experience: I paid to have my daughter kidnapped



Holy shit!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Mar 26, 2016)

I'm wondering what it is the Guardian moderators are working so hard to silence.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 28, 2016)

This article includes a mention of a far-right anti-Islam demonstration, which is hyperlinked to the website promoting the demonstration, giving the cunts hits and presumably an improved ranking. 

Brussels attacks: 'Fight the westerners' text sent to youths in Molenbeek


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 29, 2016)

We should axe sixth forms and give the funds to sixth form colleges instead? Even though we have the imminent academ'ising of state schools and FE is taking a battering too? Why can't we just properly resource and fund both? Did I read this right? 

School sixth forms: an outdated luxury | Peter Wilby


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 29, 2016)

I presume that's a desire from the libertarian right as it would make it more politically possible to charge fees for educating 16-18yr olds if they're in a college, something that would be harder to get support for if part of the mainstream schooling system.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 29, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> We should axe sixth forms and give the funds to sixth form colleges instead? Even though we have the imminent academ'ising of state schools and FE is taking a battering too? Why can't we just properly resource and fund both? Did I read this right?
> 
> School sixth forms: an outdated luxury | Peter Wilby


Ha. If that's his idea of a luxury I'd hate to know his idea of poverty.


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 29, 2016)

It's just more race to the bottom, divisive, 'tough decisions to be made' bollocks isn't it?!, when _both_ state education _and_ further education need defending and supporting more than ever.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 30, 2016)

It’s easy to sneer at US fringe politics, but the crackpots are gaining ground in the UK too | Rafael Behr

Acknowledging that neoliberal politics exist = conspiracy theory


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 30, 2016)

Yh I unwisely started my day by reading that shite. Behr is the fucking loon.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 30, 2016)

Leather jackets, flat caps and tracksuits: how to dress if you're a leftwing politician


----------



## J Ed (Mar 30, 2016)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Yh I unwisely started my day by reading that shite. Behr is the fucking loon.



Anyone who disagrees with me is a conspiracy theorist


----------



## J Ed (Mar 30, 2016)

Anyone who assumes that politicians (only neoliberal ones, mind) do anything with anything other than the best of the intentions is a conspiracy theorist


----------



## Flavour (Mar 30, 2016)

it's getting to the point that I feel disorientated and unable to fully comprehend and how bizarre the guardian has become in the last 10-15 years. maybe it was always like this, but I just didn't see it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 30, 2016)

Flavour said:


> it's getting to the point that I feel disorientated and unable to fully comprehend and how bizarre the guardian has become in the last 10-15 years. maybe it was always like this, but I just didn't see it.


it's just easing itself round the u-bend


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 1, 2016)

Teh poor buy-to-let landlords.
A real Tory chancellor wouldn’t persecute buy-to-let landlords | Simon Jenkins


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 1, 2016)

it was difficult to tell which story was the April Fool's one today


----------



## brogdale (Apr 1, 2016)




----------



## J Ed (Apr 1, 2016)

1 being born correctly


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 2, 2016)

J Ed said:


> 1 being born correctly



2 not dying.


----------



## paolo (Apr 2, 2016)

The Guardian *is* going down the pan.

The Indy has bailed from print, and the Guardian won't be far behind. Axing journalists now.

Three cheers!!

Yeah?


----------



## stavros (Apr 2, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> Teh poor buy-to-let landlords.
> A real Tory chancellor wouldn’t persecute buy-to-let landlords | Simon Jenkins



Isn't Jenkins partly there to ostensibly balance the Graun's perceived leftist stance? Maybe I've misinterpreted it, but I've seen a few of his columns which seem written with the express aim of baiting the readership.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 2, 2016)

stavros said:


> Isn't Jenkins partly there to ostensibly balance the Graun's perceived leftist stance? Maybe I've misinterpreted it, but I've seen a few of his columns which seem written with the express aim of baiting the readership.



No. He completely fits in with the rest of the liberal Guardian.


----------



## stavros (Apr 2, 2016)

OK, I stand corrected.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 3, 2016)

Is a £1,800 wood-fired outdoor hot tub a good idea?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 3, 2016)

In this junior doctors row, both sides have lost sight of the patient | Sarah Wollaston


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 4, 2016)

Red hot exclusive rolling off the presses today and no mistake:



Kim Philby: I got away with treachery 'because I was upper class'


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2016)

the scales fall from my eyes


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Apr 4, 2016)

Panama Papers cause Guardian to collapse into self-parody


----------



## belboid (Apr 4, 2016)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Panama Papers cause Guardian to collapse into self-parody


now _that _is an awful article.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 4, 2016)

Picturing 'techies': photo project captures the unseen diversity of Silicon Valley

Is it just me whose 'image of what a tech worker looks like' has not been 'disrupted' even a little bit by this article?


----------



## stavros (Apr 5, 2016)

How did Charlie Hebdo get it so wrong?


----------



## killer b (Apr 5, 2016)

paolo said:


> The Guardian *is* going down the pan.
> 
> The Indy has bailed from print, and the Guardian won't be far behind. Axing journalists now.
> 
> ...


when did you last buy a copy?


----------



## phildwyer (Apr 5, 2016)

killer b said:


> when did you last buy a copy?



I can barely remember the last time I bought any newspaper.

Oh I did buy the NY Times last Sunday but that was because I needed something to read on a plane.  Apart from such situations, it's been years.


----------



## Sue (Apr 6, 2016)

Is it really so wrong to put kisses at the end of work emails?


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2016)

Not actually a problem with the Guardian printing this piece, but it should go somewhere.   Ohh Paul, what have you become???

Paul Mason: the leftwing case for nuclear weapons – video


----------



## J Ed (Apr 6, 2016)

belboid said:


> Not actually a problem with the Guardian printing this piece, but it should go somewhere.   Ohh Paul, what have you become???
> 
> Paul Mason: the leftwing case for nuclear weapons – video



Yea, posted in commentariat thread, the title of the vid is misleading. Where is the leftwing case for nukes in that? Where is the case even other than 'they are bad idea but we want to do other stuff so we should shut up about nukes'?


----------



## JimW (Apr 6, 2016)

Workers bomb! At last Mason sees the light.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Yea, posted in commentariat thread, the title of the vid is misleading. Where is the leftwing case for nukes in that? Where is the case even other than 'they are bad idea but we want to do other stuff so we should shut up about nukes'?


Because of
a) terrorism
b) putin
c) british troops are shit now
d) this is more coherent than tories
e) it'l keep the peace and we can spend money on the NHS


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Because of
> a) terrorism
> b) putin
> c) british troops are shit now
> ...


f) jobs in scotland


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Yea, posted in commentariat thread,


aah, forgot about that thread!


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2016)

Then raise the workers’ bomb on high,
Beneath its cloud we’ll gladly die,
For though it sends us all to hell,
It kills the ruling class as well.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 6, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Because of
> a) terrorism
> b) putin
> c) british troops are shit now
> ...



Surely a, c, d and e could all be arguments used for getting rid of Trident and the way they were phrased made me think he was going to argue that before giving us some sort of argument that trumped all of those arguments but it never came.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Surely a, c, d and e could all be arguments used for getting rid of Trident and the way they were phrased made me think he was going to argue that before giving us some sort of argument that trumped all of those arguments but it never came.


It's a political/priority argument about how to maximise labours potential to get elected and then do things rather than any sort of case for nuclear weapons. Disappointingly. He should have puhed the putin thing if he really wanted to show some blue sky thinking. Maybe make the case for a pre-emptive strike.


----------



## pengaleng (Apr 6, 2016)

christ is this still going lol


----------



## J Ed (Apr 6, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> christ is this still going lol



The Guardian? Yeah, but have a check next year.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Apr 6, 2016)

J Ed said:


> The Guardian? Yeah, but have a check next year.




Cant see the guardian lasting much longer its losing money almost as quick as it is readers most of the remaining guardian readership appears to be employed at that other failing irrelevant MSM operation the BBC


----------



## comrade spurski (Apr 6, 2016)

Surprised anyone can afford it...last time I saw it was about £1.60 a day...that's £8 per week (not including Saturdays) ...over £32 a month...For a newspaper!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2016)

This confused the hell out of me


----------



## J Ed (Apr 7, 2016)




----------



## Cerv (Apr 7, 2016)

comrade spurski said:


> Surprised anyone can afford it...last time I saw it was about £1.60 a day...that's £8 per week (not including Saturdays) ...over £32 a month...For a newspaper!


Free if you spend a fiver in waitrose


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 7, 2016)




----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 7, 2016)

Game of Thrones innit


----------



## comrade spurski (Apr 7, 2016)

Cerv said:


> Free if you spend a fiver in waitrose


So I can save £1.60 by getting a bus to Waitrose ...surprisingly there ain't one in Woolwich. ..which costs £1.50 each way on my oyster card and then spend a fiver on stuff that would cost £3 in the coop?
Spend £8 to save £1.60? If I can't see the flaw in that plan I should work for the treasury!
Or be a politician ... could claim it back on expenses


----------



## emanymton (Apr 7, 2016)

I used to walk past a student shop on the way to work so I could pick it up for 20p. I haven’t bought it since I moved and couldn't do that anymore.


----------



## paolo (Apr 8, 2016)

killer b said:


> when did you last buy a copy?



Used to be daily, print.

These days I read online, adblocked, and pay-in directly on some scheme.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 8, 2016)

Check out this graunid 'fact-checking', not something I have ever seen them do to a Tory.

Ken Livingstone says Cameron should go to prison - Politics live



> *Ken Livingstone says Cameron should go to prison*
> *Ken Livingstone,* the former Labour mayor of London and a key ally of Jeremy Corbyn, has given an interview to RT (formally Russia Today) saying that David Cameron should not just resign, he should be sent to jail.
> 
> It is hard to be sure quite how serious Livingstone was being - he is prone to headline-grabbing overstatement - but he did sound 100% sincere when he described Cameron as “the most hypocritical prime minister of my lifetime”.
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Check out this graunid 'fact-checking', not something I have ever seen them do to a Tory.
> 
> Ken Livingstone says Cameron should go to prison - Politics live


so livingstone's wrong because he believed what the guardian originally wrote about cameron's slave-owning forebears


----------



## J Ed (Apr 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> so livingstone's wrong because he believed what the guardian originally wrote about cameron's slave-owning forebears



Honestly though, maybe I am just ideologically blinkered or whatever but I cannot recall them doing a 'fact-check' like that, especially over anything so tenuous, to a Tory during one of their live blog things. The graunid bunker seriously, seriously hates the left.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 8, 2016)

i hope he is sent to prison.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> i hope he is sent to prison.


prison's too good for him


----------



## agricola (Apr 8, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Check out this graunid 'fact-checking', not something I have ever seen them do to a Tory.
> 
> Ken Livingstone says Cameron should go to prison - Politics live



The way they spin that IFS piece is a bit mad as well - it actually says:



> In broad terms income inequality is lower than before the recession as increasing levels of employment have helped those towards the bottom of the income distribution and falling real wages have hit those in work, including higher earners. We would expect that equalisation to unwind as further benefit cuts bite and earnings start to rise, such that inequality at the end of the decade is likely to be similar to inequality at the start.
> 
> The direct effect of government tax and benefit policy, on the other hand, has been to take money from those working age benefit recipients towards the bottom of the income distribution. That reflects in part some unpicking, but by no means a complete unpicking, of the very big increases in tax credits introduced by the last Labour government. Those in the middle and upper parts of the income distribution – including most pensioners and people on average earnings and above – have been remarkably well protected from tax and benefit changes on average. Meanwhile the very highest earners - those on over £100,000 a year - have seen significant tax increases.



... which is a lot closer to what Livingstone said.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 8, 2016)

this panama thing is awesome. i've had loads of arguments with people saying "oh im sure the tax thing is exaggerated, im sure they don't really do that etc etc" now it's there in black and white. its one thing to sort of know they're fiddling their tax it's another thing to have it their in front of you.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

agricola said:


> The way they spin that IFS piece is a bit mad as well - it actually says:
> 
> 
> 
> ... which is a lot closer to what Livingstone said.


Taken in the whole, there are very credible analyses that support Livingstone's assertion:-






Source


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Taken in the whole, there are very credible analyses that support Livingstone's assertion:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeh but the guardian cherry-picking evidence


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but the guardian cherry-picking evidence


Yep, why I posted evidence supporting Livingstone's position.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 8, 2016)

'It's better than The Sopranos': the foreign TV you'll be bingeing on this summer



> Walter Iuzzolino is an effusive man in a sweater-vest, with a PhD in Henry James and a passion for television.



No he's not, he's a telly wonk who's WEARING A FUCKING TANKTOP


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Apr 8, 2016)

Some breathless shilling for what,  reading between the lines, looks very much like a French version of Tony Blair, in the Graun today.  The Guardian, friend of Blairite scum the world over....


----------



## NoXion (Apr 8, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'It's better than The Sopranos': the foreign TV you'll be bingeing on this summer
> 
> 
> 
> No he's not, he's a telly wonk who's WEARING A FUCKING TANKTOP



Oh my sainted trousers, they mislabelled an item of clothing! Clearly this is the worst thing the Guardian have ever done!

Look, there are plenty of reasons to dump on the Guardian; the editorials from smug wealthy liberals, the softballing of cunts of all stripes, the sundry attempts to put a palatable gloss on neoliberal shit. Plus plenty of other stuff. But this kind of shit comes across as petty and obsessive.

Also, a search in Wikipedia and Google images will show that most people think tank tops are shirts more than sweaters.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 8, 2016)

FFY;HTH



NoXion said:


> Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah - blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah; blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.


----------



## Mr Smin (Apr 8, 2016)

I got as far as this basic error and didn't read further:
 (formally Russia Today) 

Formerly.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Taken in the whole, there are very credible analyses that support Livingstone's assertion:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...



don't know if I'll get the opportunity to use the term 'vingtile' IRL much ( without looking like I was either shoehorning or showboating, or both ) but am still glad to have come across it .


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> FFY;HTH


Not wishing to be picky, but have you used that colon correctly? I'm not sure it precedes an explanation/list?


----------



## cantsin (Apr 8, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> This confused the hell out of me
> 
> View attachment 85486



Saw this Larry Sanders do an interview on c4 news a while back,  he was excellent . The other one lives on as the greatest comic creation of our time, though of course G Shandlng is now unexpectedly + sadly gone.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Not wishing to be picky, but have you used that colon correctly? I'm not sure it precedes an explanation/list?



Maybe he's secretly a Guardian journalist. Would explain the lack of substance to his criticisms.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Not wishing to be picky, but have you used that colon correctly? I'm not sure it precedes an explanation/list?


It's a semi-colon and apart from the lack of a space it is used correctly.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 8, 2016)

scifisam said:


> It's a semi-colon and apart from the lack of a space it is used correctly.


2nd line, foureyes.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 8, 2016)

brogdale said:


> 2nd line, foureyes.


Ah, I see - difficult though, since it doesn't show up in the quote (at least not on my phone). 

Haven't been called four eyes since I was about ten. Nostalgic.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2016)

French protests turn violent as police and demonstrators clash 


FFS 

'extremists'


----------



## paolo (Apr 10, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> French protests turn violent as police and demonstrators clash
> 
> 
> FFS
> ...



Context:

"Paris police chief Michel Cadot said...extremists."


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2016)

paolo said:


> Context:
> 
> "Paris police chief Michel Cadot said...extremists."


Why didn't they 'fact check' it?


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2016)

They added it without quote marks.


----------



## paolo (Apr 10, 2016)

Adding the word "claimed" would have improved the commentary. Or, as you say, quote marked it.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 10, 2016)

paolo said:


> Adding the word "claimed" would have improved the commentary. Or, as you say, quote marked it.


See, every defence falls. The fort is taken.


----------



## paolo (Apr 10, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> See, every defence falls. The fort is taken.



Frog woman made a valid point.

Why are you talking about forts?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 11, 2016)




----------



## Sue (Apr 11, 2016)

Had to read to the end of this before I could be sure it was actually meant to be a piss take. 

David Cameron and the dangers of being 'trapped in wealth' | Dean Burnett


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 11, 2016)

paolo said:


> Why are you talking about forts?



A visceral hatred of fortlessness in others.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 11, 2016)

NTSH


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 14, 2016)




----------



## bi0boy (Apr 14, 2016)

I don’t feel guilty about teaching in a private school – all pupils face challenges


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 14, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> I don’t feel guilty about teaching in a private school – all pupils face challenges



Just less than one in five teachers who leave the public sector get jobs in the private sector. I doubt many of them feel too guilty about it.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 15, 2016)

I mean, I know there's also arguments about what A-B marches achieve, but are they really asking this question?

_Well, I just thought I'd take part y'know, day out n stuff, not much else doing_

(from here)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 15, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> I mean, I know there's also arguments about what A-B marches achieve, but are they really asking this question?
> 
> _Well, I just thought I'd take part y'know, day out n stuff, not much else doing_
> 
> (from here)


It's a lot easier than, oh, sending out a reporter who has to go around and interview people and take notes and type up what they said. Something weird like that. Instead you can just get people to write the piece for you and never have to go anywhere near it. This "journalism" thing is so 20th century.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's a lot easier than, oh, sending out a reporter who has to go around and interview people and take notes and type up what they said. Something weird like that. Instead you can just get people to write the piece for you and never have to go anywhere near it. This "journalism" thing is so 20th century.


crowdsource your articles! its the future. Garlic bread


----------



## 8115 (Apr 15, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's a lot easier than, oh, sending out a reporter who has to go around and interview people and take notes and type up what they said. Something weird like that. Instead you can just get people to write the piece for you and never have to go anywhere near it. This "journalism" thing is so 20th century.


Journalism 2.0.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 16, 2016)

8115 said:


> Journalism 2.0.


Wonder how long it is before that is picked up as an excuse by the likes of penny et al


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2016)

Thought I must be reading the Mail...



> *Tens of thousands march against austerity in London*
> Noisy crowd wielding banners, *expletive-filled placards *and pig effigies descend on capital from across the UK
> “No ifs, no buts, no public sector cuts, and “Dodgy Dave get out, we know what you’re all about” were among the chants demonstrators bellowed as they marched from the *University of Central London* to rally in Trafalgar Square.


​


----------



## scifisam (Apr 16, 2016)

Someone actually thought UCL stood for University of Central London and didn't bother checking?


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 17, 2016)

'But if helps if you're rich' - well no fucking shit.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 17, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> 'But if helps if you're rich' - well no fucking shit.


A classic


----------



## stavros (Apr 17, 2016)

Some of the letters page is now devoted to below-the-line conversations lifted from their website.


----------



## eoin_k (Apr 17, 2016)




----------



## eoin_k (Apr 17, 2016)

But, would you make it brogdale; have you got what it takes?


----------



## 8ball (Apr 17, 2016)

Sue said:


> Had to read to the end of this before I could be sure it was actually meant to be a piss take.
> 
> David Cameron and the dangers of being 'trapped in wealth' | Dean Burnett



Tbf the last line is a good 'un.




			
				El Grauno said:
			
		

> You can’t even do a fundraiser for those afflicted, as it just makes things worse.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 17, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> But, would you make it brogdale; have you got what it takes?


I can do jazz hands.


----------



## eoin_k (Apr 17, 2016)

That's Paul Lewis's department-this is serious news: none of your hippy shit.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Apr 18, 2016)

"Abandon all hope, losers!" Says partner of failure and austerity enabler who is despised even within his own party......
Free trade has won: adapt or die is the only option left to us | Miriam Gonzáles


----------



## J Ed (Apr 18, 2016)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> "Abandon all hope, losers!" Says partner of failure and austerity enabler who is despised even within his own party......
> Free trade has won: adapt or die is the only option left to us | Miriam Gonzáles



Dad was a fascist mayor in Spain, daughter and son-in-law following proudly in his footsteps of stamping on the face the working-class.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 18, 2016)

Funny how those who say 'adapt or die' are never the ones who risk doing any dying.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 18, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Funny how those who say 'adapt or die' are never the ones who risk doing any dying.


Nor, indeed, are they ever required to do any adaptation - rather it is the lower orders who must adapt themselves to changed conditions.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 18, 2016)

The scary dark man cometh. And he has people. A mob. An angry mob. Coming to get you and take your things.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2016)




----------



## butchersapron (Apr 18, 2016)

Rolling:


----------



## J Ed (Apr 18, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Rolling:
> 
> View attachment 85944



I thought that it was replacing workers with machines to increase corporate profits that was the only thing that could break the power of capitalism.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 18, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I thought that it was replacing workers with machines to increase corporate profits that was the only thing that could break the power of capitalism.


bernie running 4 scab tills will bring true communism


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 18, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I thought that it was replacing workers with machines to increase corporate profits that was the only thing that could break the power of capitalism.


If only it were that crude - the idea is that modern capitalism runs on ideas - and ideas are free and therefore have no value. So all the value producing stuff around them (actual plants, transport networks, resources mining and states) are sort of gone....


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 18, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> View attachment 85936
> 
> The scary dark man cometh. And he has people. A mob. An angry mob. Coming to get you and take your things.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 18, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I thought that it was replacing workers with machines to increase corporate profits that was the only thing that could break the power of capitalism.


Only when implemented alongside the workers bomb.


----------



## dendrite (Apr 18, 2016)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> "Abandon all hope, losers!" Says partner of failure and austerity enabler who is despised even within his own party......
> Free trade has won: adapt or die is the only option left to us | Miriam Gonzáles



Love this: 



			
				Miriam Gonzales said:
			
		

> My children, for example, know more about startup products released for crowdfunding around the world than about what is sold in shops in our high street


----------



## spartacus mills (Apr 18, 2016)

The daily edition went up to 2 quid today.


----------



## stavros (Apr 18, 2016)

Saturday was up to £2.90, with a note from Viner inside the front cover "explaining" that and the daily increase too.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 18, 2016)

stavros said:


> Saturday was up to £2.90, with a note from Viner inside the front cover "explaining" that and the daily increase too.


why do you buy it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 18, 2016)

Ugh:
Lynsey Hanley: how I became middle class


----------



## stavros (Apr 18, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> why do you buy it?



I buy it once a week on a Saturday and read it mostly whilst eating my breakfast. Whilst by no means are its views parallel to mine, I find it the closest newspaper to my line of thinking, albeit in a very weak field.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 20, 2016)

Cracker Sander's is a cunt he loves GUNS hilary Clinton doesn't piece - pics and everything.

Families of Sandy Hook victims go after 'untouchable' gun manufacturers

Oh yeah and lots of really caring about the case. Of course. How low can they go?


----------



## 8115 (Apr 20, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Ugh:
> Lynsey Hanley: how I became middle class


I thought that was a really good thought provoking article actually. I really enjoyed it. What did you not like about it?


----------



## mauvais (Apr 22, 2016)

Is this self-parody?

Jane Got a Gun – but most women in westerns still don't

Let's empower women by, err, giving them guns  but not real women from now, stupid, fictional women from the past


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Apr 23, 2016)

stavros said:


> Saturday was up to £2.90, with a note from Viner inside the front cover "explaining" that and the daily increase too.



£10 for the daily al-guardian plus £2.90 for the saturday al-guardian equals £670 a year, Thats £670 a year I could spend on better than a failing tax dodging rag that spent 13 years supporting blairs red conservatives then switiched to supporting nick cleggnochio's fib-dimocrats


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2016)

'al-guardian'?


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2016)

'nick cleggnochio's fib-dimocrats'?

jesus.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 23, 2016)




----------



## emanymton (Apr 23, 2016)

killer b said:


> 'nick cleggnochio's fib-dimocrats'?
> 
> jesus.


And I thought we would never top Bliar


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2016)

emanymton said:


> And I thought we would never top Bliar


ZaNuLiebore?


----------



## killer b (Apr 23, 2016)

brogdale said:


> ZaNuLiebore?


my own personal favourite.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 23, 2016)

killer b said:


> 'nick cleggnochio's fib-dimocrats'?
> 
> jesus.



You think Nick Clegg is Jesus??? 

You poor deluded bastard.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 23, 2016)

killer b said:


> 'al-guardian'?



Well-known as a favourite of the sandal-wearing beardies.


----------



## belboid (Apr 23, 2016)

"His entire campaign has been built on the promise to break up the banks. But in a recent interview, it was clear that he had no idea 1) what the banks are, 2) how to do this, or 3) what the repercussions would be."

Hadley Freeman: I like Bernie as much as the next idealist, but Hillary gets my vote


What is the point of Hadley Freeman? She must've the guardians worst writer


----------



## seventh bullet (Apr 23, 2016)

emanymton said:


> And I thought we would never top Bliar



Actually I think matey could help come up with headlines for stories in the Girder.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 23, 2016)

stavros said:


> Saturday was up to £2.90, with a note from Viner inside the front cover "explaining" that and the daily increase too.


HOW MUCH?????!!!!!


----------



## bogbrush (Apr 24, 2016)

8115 said:


> I thought that was a really good thought provoking article actually. I really enjoyed it. What did you not like about it?


The self-parody.  The attempt to write an 'angry young men' type 'muck & brass'  background into a 1980's computer science class. The replacement of the 'scholarship boy's' transition to the blue coat grammar school, with the year shift to the sixth form college.  Where the other pupils were 'middle class' (aren't they all?) and got 'straight A's'  - another give away in itself, the piece is set in the post 'grade-inflation' UK education system.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 27, 2016)

Welcome to your virtual cell - could you handle solitary confinement?

Hang on, let me just make a cup of tea and get one of those cinema-size boxes of maltesers, and I'll give it a go


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2016)

Saw this and thought ‘Martin Rossiter looks different to how I remember’


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 30, 2016)

Zayn Malik - saviour of Muslim teenagers | Urmee Khan


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2016)

The picture accompanying this article is awful

My plea to the left: treat Jews the same way you’d treat any other minority | Jonathan Freedland


----------



## belboid (Apr 30, 2016)

The article is awful too


----------



## Favelado (Apr 30, 2016)

belboid said:


> The article is awful too



We throw the term "straw-man" around so often, but this piece is stuffed full of them. It's fundamentally dishonest.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 30, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Ugh:
> Lynsey Hanley: how I became middle class



This is being serialised on Radio 4 at the moment. It's quite interesting when removed from the automatic smug filter a Guardian photo and page layout add to it.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2016)

"Revealed"


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2016)

brogdale said:


> "Revealed"


It's news to the guardian


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2016)

Jesus...


> When Jeremy Corbyn defended the Islamist likes of Raed Salah, who say that Jews dine on the blood of Christian children, he was continuing a tradition of communist accommodation with antisemitism that goes back to Stalin’s purges of Soviet Jews in the late 1940s.
> 
> It is astonishing that you have to, but you must learn the worst of leftwing history now. For *Labour is not just led by dirty men but by dirty old men, with roots in the contaminated soil of Marxist totalitarianism.* If it is to change, its leaders will either have to change their minds or be thrown out of office.


----------



## gosub (Apr 30, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Jesus...
> ​


So get with the program reign in free speech outside of the window we prescribe or 'totalitarians' like you wot have been elected by a majority of your party will have to be purged.... Must be the 'marxist' bit they have a problem with, the tax dodging wankers


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2016)

gosub said:


> So get with the program reign in free speech outside of the window we prescribe or 'totalitarians' like you wot have been elected by a majority of your party will have to be purged.... Must be the 'marxist' bit they have a problem with, the tax dodging wankers


Reign and rein are two different things


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Apr 30, 2016)

That is one of the most hysterical and unbalanced rants I have ever seen from Cohen, and he has had a few.  You can almost see him frothing at the mouth, his spittle flecking his keyboard and monitor as he whips himself into a righteous frenzy against the evil, evil left....farty smelly old halitosic reds pandering to genocidal Islamist maniacs....


----------



## gosub (May 1, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Reign and rein are two different things


not at 10:30 on the Saturday of a bank holiday weekend


----------



## Beermoth (May 1, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Jesus...
> ​



'I do not want to tempt fate, but if British Jews were murdered, the leader of the Labour party would not be welcome at their memorial.'

Fuck me, I can't believe the Guardian actually printed that. Seriously? What a piece of shit he is.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 1, 2016)

Beermoth said:


> 'I do not want to tempt fate, but if British Jews were murdered, the leader of the Labour party would not be welcome at their memorial.'
> 
> Fuck me, I can't believe the Guardian actually printed that. Seriously? What a piece of shit he is.


Not to mention what a piece of shit the guardian is


----------



## redsquirrel (May 1, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Jesus...
> ​


And worse he gobbles all the lemon drizzle cake!

God, if Cohen wasn't such a grade a cunt I could also admire sheer looniness of this tripe.


----------



## campanula (May 1, 2016)

Has always been a ranting vicious repository of spite...a whiner to boot.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 2, 2016)

A conservatively-minded friend of mine approvingly posted this piece of shit by Barbara Ellen - ranting against the strike against exams for kids: Time children learned a life lesson at school | Barbara Ellen


> Yes, sometimes these are very young children, but what’s more shocking to them – regular testing or the big, nasty shock at the end, when they find out the hard way that the big bad world doesn’t give a stuff about how “fun and free” their schooling was? It wants to see qualifications.



No discussion of actual facts about what exams do to kids and education. Let's just maintain the status quo and quit whining about it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 2, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> Let's just maintain the status quo and quit whining about it.


your new tagline


----------



## J Ed (May 2, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> A conservatively-minded friend of mine approvingly posted this piece of shit by Barbara Ellen - ranting against the strike against exams for kids: Time children learned a life lesson at school | Barbara Ellen
> 
> 
> No discussion of actual facts about what exams do to kids and education. Let's just maintain the status quo and quit whining about it.








This was given to a Year 2 ffs


----------



## Brainaddict (May 2, 2016)

Ha, though I think whether the tests are shit tests is kind of another question. I don't think they would be good for kids education if there were better tests.


----------



## eoin_k (May 2, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> A conservatively-minded friend of mine approvingly posted this piece of shit by Barbara Ellen - ranting against the strike against exams for kids: Time children learned a life lesson at school | Barbara Ellen
> 
> 
> No discussion of actual facts about what exams do to kids and education. Let's just maintain the status quo and quit whining about it.


And then they have an article by Zoe Williams that is broadly sympathetic to the protest, for editorial balance no doubt. They probably prewrite this shit on standard forms and then drop in some keywords.


----------



## billy_bob (May 2, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> And then they have an article by Zoe Williams that is broadly sympathetic to the protest, for editorial balance no doubt. They probably prewrite this shit on standard forms and then drop in some keywords.



They may have developed something similar to the machines that write saccharine song lyrics for the proles in 1984.


----------



## billy_bob (May 2, 2016)

J Ed said:


> The picture accompanying this article is awful
> 
> My plea to the left: treat Jews the same way you’d treat any other minority | Jonathan Freedland



I spent ages trying to figure out wtf that was. I keep seeing a load of people tending to a beached Jewish whale.


----------



## gosub (May 2, 2016)

J Ed said:


> This was given to a Year 2 ffs




you have to lower kids expectations early.  Today's hardworking families are too busy to be able to do two things in one day with their kids.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 2, 2016)

J Ed said:


> The picture accompanying this article is awful
> 
> My plea to the left: treat Jews the same way you’d treat any other minority | Jonathan Freedland


isn't that part of the malaysian airlines plane?


----------



## bi0boy (May 2, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> I spent ages trying to figure out wtf that was. I keep seeing a load of people tending to a beached Jewish whale.



What is it 

I thought maybe an iceberg in hot water hence the clouds of steam?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 2, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> What is it
> 
> I thought maybe an iceberg in hot water hence the clouds of steam?


i refer you to post #5484


----------



## NoXion (May 4, 2016)

J Ed said:


> This was given to a Year 2 ffs



Surely "and" is also correct?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 4, 2016)

NoXion said:


> Surely "and" is also correct?


No. Under the children (leisure) regulations of 2011 (statutory instrument 2011/434) children may enjoy only one major leisure activity per calendar day (para. 24.2 (c))


----------



## J Ed (May 4, 2016)

NoXion said:


> Surely "and" is also correct?



Yeah, that's the point, and the problem with the way in which grammar is being taught at the moment.


----------



## Greasy Boiler (May 8, 2016)

Note the text in this link: What Labour can learn from my victory: we can’t ignore the things most voters want | Sadiq Khan

The original title before the Guardian changed it to something more critical of Labour.


----------



## J Ed (May 9, 2016)

Whatever your politics, let’s have more Ruths and fewer Zacs | Marina Hyde


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2016)

38degrees have taken down a petition about posh BBC journo and her anti-corbyn views when she's supposed to be presenting a balanced view in public - citing sexist abuse on twitter i.e not the actual petition - as the reason. Here the guardian link the abuse to Jeremy Corbyn and a general left-culture.



> Prior to the petition being taken down, former Independent on Sunday political editor Jane Merrick told the Guardian that Kuenssberg had faced an extra layer of sexist criticism. “She has been called a whore and a bitch on Twitter,” said Merrick. “Nick Robinson used to be accused of Tory bias but he never experienced this level of nastiness.”
> 
> “Of course, not all Corbyn supporters are sexist, far from it, but there is a core of hard-left misogyny that comes out against women when Corbyn is under pressure – such as the abuse against Stella Creasy and Jess Phillips. Jeremy Corbyn said back in September he wanted a ‘kinder politics’ so he should condemn these vile attacks against a respected and experienced journalist.”



The abuse of Stella Creasy happened two years before Corbyn was elected as labour leader. He was not even thought of as a potential leader and so to link it to his supporters doing his evil bidding when he was under pressure is simply an open lie, an unashamed smear.

note: no comments allowed on this one.


----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2016)

Increasingly politics is rich, connected people telling ordinary, less connected people that they don't deserve anything resembling a fair shake of it because they haven't, or much more likely are imagined not to have, jumped through the latest arbitrary hoop whether it is actually possible for them or anyone else to jump through that hoop or not. Lots of these types online now arguing that any criticism of any right-wing woman, but especially prominent ones like Thatcher and Clinton, is based on misogyny even if that criticism comes from a woman.


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Increasingly politics is rich, connected people telling ordinary, less connected people that they don't deserve anything a resembling a fair shake of it because they haven't, or much more likely are imagined not to have, jumped through the latest arbitrary hoop whether it is actually possible for them or anyone else to jump through that hoop or not. Lots of these types online now arguing that any criticism of any right-wing woman, but especially prominent ones like Thatcher and Clinton, is based on misogyny even if that criticism comes from a woman.


From the people that brought you "_criticism of the bankers is anti-semitic"._


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2016)

anti semites, women haters- apologists for rape. Whats the next one?


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> anti semites, women haters- apologists for rape. Whats the next one?


Jeremy Soundslike's wife is Chinese; possibility there?


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2016)

The rise of militias: Patriot candidates are now getting elected in Oregon

 Not a, single elected patriot candidate in article.

The rise of militias: Patriot candidates are now getting elected in Oregon

The rise of militias: Patriot candidates are now getting elected in Oregon


----------



## J Ed (May 11, 2016)

I see that Cameron mentioned the 'sexist bullying' of Laura Kuenssberg in parliament today in response to a question from Lucy Allen, the mp who accused her constituents of sexist bullying because they objected to her faking a death threat from her constituent. 

What a society we live in when the powerful are the only ones who can be bullied and the powerless are the only ones who can bully them.


----------



## PoorButNotAChav (May 12, 2016)

Laura Bates, founder of the Everyday Sexism Project, has written an article for The Guardian about the 38 Degrees petition against the Tory bias of Laura Kuenssberg.  Here's a quote from it:

_Posts calling Kuenssberg a bitch, a whore and a slag are not hard to spot on social media. Others refer to her as a cow and a cunt. Some people write that they’d like to kill her. One post included a picture of a scene from Return of the Jedi with Kuenssberg’s face Photoshopped on to that of Princess Leia in the famous gold-bikini scene and David Cameron’s face superimposed on Jabba the Hutt. It describes her as “Cameron’s slave girl”._

The Laura Kuenssberg petition should be condemned – not just removed

The last description is very detailed.  It is so detailed you may be able to see the post in your mind's eye.  However, if you want to see it with the eyes in the front of your head you will need to do more work because Laura Bates didn't provide a link to the post or a screenshot of the post or any other information about the post such as the username of the poster or the name of the social media network on which it was posted.  Here's the paragraph before the one posted above:

_While some have tried to argue that the problem is nonexistent, you don’t have to look very far to find evidence of abusive and misogynistic messages being directed at, or about, Kuenssberg._

So even though "you don’t have to look very far" for this evidence and such posts are "not hard to spot on social media" Laura Bates has provided absolutely no evidence to support any of the claims she made in either paragraph.  Other parts of the article contain links which supposedly support other claims she makes but she provided no evidence to support the claims she made about social media posts about Laura Kuenssberg on the website of a newspaper which claims that "Comment is free, but facts are sacred" and that routinely asks visitors to its website to give it £49 per year to support its journalism.

The claims Laura Bates made about social media posts about Laura Kuenssberg may be true.  However, if they are true then she should be able to provide links to and screenshots of social media posts about Laura Kuenssberg  posted before the publication of her article which contain what she described in her article.  If she can't provide links to and a screenshot of the posts she described perhaps she could explain why people shouldn't conclude that she is a fantasist.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 12, 2016)

This was written last year but I think it's not only relevant, but it reminds us why The Guardian is going further down the pan (it's practically nearing the sewer tbh). 
Why Jonathan Freedland Isn’t Fit to be the New Editor-in-Chief of the Guardian


----------



## DrRingDing (May 12, 2016)

I wonder how many of those genuinely sexist comments actually come from the left.

On the plus side.....nope can't think of one.


----------



## cantsin (May 12, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> 38degrees have taken down a petition about posh BBC journo and her anti-corbyn views when she's supposed to be presenting a balanced view in public - citing sexist abuse on twitter i.e not the actual petition - as the reason. Here the guardian link the abuse to Jeremy Corbyn and a general left-culture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sounds like they must be referring to the violent Corbynite mob that assembled outside Creasey's  house on the evening of the Bomb Syria  vote last winter, which actually turned out to have been a candlelit vigil outside her constituency office, with the constit. workers having already gone home/ office empty.

Stella Creasy crushes story about protest outside her house


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2016)




----------



## frogwoman (May 13, 2016)

brogdale said:


>


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 13, 2016)

brogdale said:


>



The key to good animal husbandry is to keep them well fed and watered down


----------



## stethoscope (May 13, 2016)

Thank fuck for the Guardian then.

Oh.


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2016)

I see that Rusbridger's expected coronation as head of the Scott Trust has been quashed after a palace coup by Viner. 

Guardian exiles former editor Alan Rusbridger over Scott Trust's financial problems


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2016)

I especially loved this quote from Rusbridger. He's smarting. 

_Kath and David clearly believe they would like to plot a route into the future with a new chair and I understand their reasoning.

I have a fantastically interesting new life in Oxford._


----------



## butchersapron (May 14, 2016)

Excellent.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 14, 2016)

killer b said:


> _I have a fantastically interesting new life in Oxford._



How he sees himself:






How everyone else sees him:


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2016)

the media graun has a less detailed story. funny that.

Alan Rusbridger will not take up role as chair of the Scott Trust


----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2016)

Ah, the ever reliable "_how to eat"....




_


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2016)

killer b said:


> _I have a fantastically interesting new life in Oxford._


 Christ, that's brilliant.


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Ah, the ever reliable "_how to eat"....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it's the 'how to' series that really drives home what a bunch of self-satisfied cunts they are. It tells you that the concept got through a series of meetings where people didn't think it was patronising or odd to tell people how to wear a jumper or what a poached egg must look like.

I don't think this is what the Manchester Guardian was set up for really. I wish they'd move it home so it wasn't so detached from normality.


----------



## J Ed (May 16, 2016)

Favelado said:


> I think it's the 'how to' series that really drives home what a bunch of self-satisfied cunts they are. It tells you that the concept got through a series of meetings where people didn't think it was patronising or odd to tell people how to wear a jumper or what a poached egg must look like.
> 
> I don't think this is what the Manchester Guardian was set up for really. I wish they'd move it home so it wasn't so detached from normality.



I wish these articles just had the same title and everything but the actual article was just 'With a fork, dickhead'


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2016)

'how to posh up basic grub' is the underlying theme isn't it? Although how or why you'd want to do that to toast I don't know. Its just toast ffs. Butter it and eat it you cunts


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I wish these articles just had the same title and everything but the actual article was just 'With a fork, dickhead'



Yeah they probably think that people in the north just shovel it into their face with their hands and they're doing them a genuine favour.


----------



## J Ed (May 16, 2016)

Favelado said:


> Yeah they probably think that people in the north just shovel it into their face with their hands and they're doing them a genuine favour.



On the other hand I can think of a few things for a 'how not to eat mac & cheese' article, I know someone that eats it with tuna and ketchup


----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2016)

J Ed said:


> On the other hand I can think of a few things for a 'how not to eat mac & cheese' article, I know someone that eats it with tuna and ketchup


Ah, part way towards one of my faves...'student bake'. (Also has peppers, sweet-corn & stuff....sometimes capers!!!!)

Oh my, what have I said?


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

How to breath in and out.


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

How to get your  nanny rocking that that chic latina chica apron.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2016)

How to wank. That'd be a good one. A viz-style spoof of those articles on the subject of wanking would be great


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2016)

It's not a very good article, but I don't have any problem with the column in principle - not any worse than the macaroni cheese thread on here really.


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

killer b said:


> It's not a very good article, but I don't have any problem with the column in principle - not any worse than the macaroni cheese thread on here really.



'Just don't call it mac 'n' cheese'

What should and shouldn't say. The whole series is clueless and patronising. How to wear. How to eat.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2016)

Favelado said:


> 'Just don't call it mac 'n' cheese'


I'm fairly sure almost that exact phrase has been uttered multiple times on our own discussion thread on the same topic.


----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2016)

Favelado said:


> 'Just don't call it mac 'n' cheese'
> 
> What should and shouldn't say. The whole series is clueless and patronising. How to wear. How to eat.


Funnily enough they haven't yet run with "_How to read a newspaper on-line for free" _yet_.
_
btw, a little bird tells me the '_Let's move to' _piece the other day included FortNeeff. Bit close to home for me.
_
_


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

killer b said:


> I'm fairly sure almost that exact phrase has been uttered multiple times on our own discussion thread on the same topic.



Different two people messing around on a forum and a newspaper commanding its readers. The Guardian does it in a way that it talks down to people.


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

Fucking hell, it even tells you what you have to drink with it.



> *Drink*
> Pale US-style ales, sticky, stridently bitter IPAs or flinty, mineral white wines. You want something that will act as a gently abrasive counterpoint, a drink that, like that green salad, will periodically reset your palate for more superlative stodge.



I'll have an irn-bru with it thanks.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2016)

Favelado said:


> Different two people messing around on a forum and a newspaper commanding its readers. The Guardian does it in a way that it talks down to people.


So do I tbf. It's done lightheartedly though, and I think it is in this article too (as well as being a troll of their american readership)


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

killer b said:


> So do I tbf. It's done lightheartedly though, and I think it is in this article too (as well as being a troll of their american readership)



You'd have to be careful if you already had a reputation of being patronising and snobby not to reinforce that though. Some of the 'how to' series is completely straight-faced disdain without any levity of heart.


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

How to wear a Pink Floyd T-shirt at a rock festival.

Glastonbury 2014: how to dress for festivals - video


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 16, 2016)

Favelado said:


> How to breath in and out.



How to...have a proper middle class J. Arthur.


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> How to...have a proper middle class J. Arthur.



Prufrock? I can't remember the poem.


----------



## Sue (May 16, 2016)

Favelado said:


> Prufrock? I can't remember the poem.


Rank. I think ViolentPanda is using rhyming slang...


----------



## Favelado (May 16, 2016)

I only knew Sherman for that.


----------



## butchersapron (May 17, 2016)

Pathetic patronising piece designed to keep the paper on-side with furys people - insiders and outsiders, in a  piece that talks about and justifies fury's open public and repeated anti-semitism. Used to be a good sports writer. No comments again on this one. Seems to happen on every piece i link to.


----------



## J Ed (May 17, 2016)

Can Hillary Clinton convince in the age of the goldfish? | Jill Abramson


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2016)

I fucking HATE Rafael Behr


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 18, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> ...animal husbandry



"Looks like the wife's a bit frisky today, wot wot".


----------



## emanymton (May 19, 2016)

*Strikes have no winners – and the junior doctors’ dispute is no exception*

OK I haven't actually read the article yet, but that fucking headline. Fuck you Toynbee, fuck you.


----------



## Flavour (May 19, 2016)

pathetic by toynbee. how far they fall. was she ever any good? what was she saying in the 80s? I know the paper didnt support the miners strike and has historically always been pro-State in all industrial disputes but there's just no limit to it.


----------



## planetgeli (May 19, 2016)

Flavour said:


> pathetic by toynbee. how far they fall. was she ever any good? what was she saying in the 80s? I know the paper didnt support the miners strike and has historically always been pro-State in all industrial disputes but there's just no limit to it.



She was an SDP candidate in the 1983 general election.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 19, 2016)

Flavour said:


> pathetic by toynbee. how far they fall. was she ever any good? what was she saying in the 80s? I know the paper didnt support the miners strike and has historically always been pro-State in all industrial disputes but there's just no limit to it.


She's always been a liberal shitstain, as planetgeli said she's one of those who backed the SDP.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 20, 2016)

planetgeli said:


> She was an SDP candidate in the 1983 general election.


More than that - she was one of the original one hundred signatories to the Limehouse Declaration


----------



## Rob Ray (May 23, 2016)

I posted this under today's comment piece by Erdoğan which has, astonishingly, gone up on their front page.



> This man started a civil war rather than accept a democratic Kurdish rejection. He's bombed Kurds fighting Isis in Syria and Iraq, and kept the border open so the world's most despised terror group could move its oil and troops through to murder yet more helpless civilians. Why is this murderous viper getting an unchallenged op-ed? Oh yeah, star power.
> 
> The editors should be ashamed of letting this man, who has a death grip on media in his own country, post his self-serving drivel here.



It was deleted and I'm now being pre-moderated. Glories of the liberal-left press eh?


----------



## brogdale (May 23, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> More than that - she was one of the original one hundred signatories to the Limehouse Declaration



And Michael Young; clearly Tobes wasn't adopted...the genes will out.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 23, 2016)

I’ve got a northern accent but I’m not working-class. So what am I? | Rebecca Hardy


----------



## brogdale (May 23, 2016)

> *The Harmony of the Seas is a monstrosity, but I’m beginning to see its point*





> _Sam’s trip was provided by Royal Caribbean. A seven-night western Mediterranean cruise costs from £1,037pp all-inclusive for an interior room._


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 24, 2016)

^^^

The comments on that are peak Guardian.


----------



## stethoscope (May 25, 2016)

Comparing people at a festival in summer in East London vs docks/industrial area on a grey day in the North West. To reinforce some sort of 'north is grim, south is glam' media bollocks.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 25, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> Comparing people at a festival in summer in East London vs docks/industrial area on a grey day in the North West. To reinforce some sort of 'north is grim, south is glam' media bollocks.


tbh the people in the picture look in the main unhappy.


----------



## J Ed (May 25, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh the people in the picture look in the main unhappy.



They obv would prefer to be in the North


----------



## Pickman's model (May 25, 2016)

J Ed said:


> They obv would prefer to be in the North


they would prefer not to be in the guardian


----------



## stethoscope (May 25, 2016)

And now they've changed the picture


----------



## mauvais (May 25, 2016)

That merely reflects how quickly BAE Systems can make their exit.


----------



## J Ed (May 25, 2016)

stethoscope said:


> And now they've changed the picture



I hope they continue subtly altering it and they start drawing moustaches and joints on the people in the picture on the right


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2016)

sort of suggests the picture bloke has not been to TH. Its not grim as fuck, its reasonable but the festval photo seems a weird choice.


----------



## Lurdan (May 25, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> sort of suggests the picture bloke has not been to TH. Its not grim as fuck,


As a denizen of Tower Hamlets I strongly refute this appalling slur. We're just as good a shithole as anywhere else.

These predictions aren't exactly new news - similar projections have been made over the last few years by both the ONS and the GLA. Assuming for the sake of argument that the prediction for Tower Hamlets is accurate the population in 2024 would still only be two thirds of what it was in 1900.


----------



## stethoscope (May 25, 2016)

'Northern towns lose workers to London music festivals' might as well be the title of the article given the complete lack of connection between it and the choice of image.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 25, 2016)

The guardian really is going to the dogs.






The men who live as dogs: 'We're just the same as any person on the high street'


----------



## YouSir (May 25, 2016)

goldenecitrone said:


> The guardian really is going to the dogs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As long as that person is also pissing on a bin.


----------



## Fisher05 (May 25, 2016)

The change in ownership or public tracking of their funds can bring in more light and expected improvement... Today media houses are just used for brainwashing of innocent minds into believing what govts or other strong lobby having influence wishes to.


----------



## J Ed (May 26, 2016)

Fisher05 said:


> The change in ownership or public tracking of their funds can bring in more light and expected improvement... Today media houses are just used for brainwashing of innocent minds into believing what govts or other strong lobby having influence wishes to.



How's your Russian?


----------



## teqniq (May 26, 2016)

A note to our readers about a reporter who breached our trust | Open door


----------



## miss direct (May 26, 2016)

Um....an opinion column by none other than Erdogan? REALLY, Guardian?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 27, 2016)

teqniq said:


> A note to our readers about a reporter who breached our trust | Open door



That article reminded me of the tone they set in this:


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 27, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> That article reminded me of the tone they set in this:



“You've let yourself down, you've let your family down, you've let Biddy Baxter down”


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 27, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> “You've let yourself down, you've let your family down, you've let Biddy Baxter down”



I blame Pickman's model .


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> I blame Pickman's model .


yeh but you always do. you're the boy who blamed wolf now


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 27, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but you always do. you're the boy who blamed wolf now



You're no wolf, more of a mangy mongrel.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> You're no wolf, more of a mangy mongrel.


it's a turn of phrase, like 'violentpanda's a gent', which shouldn't be taken literally.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 27, 2016)

I rather enjoyed Marina Hyde's latest:

‘Don’t call me luvvie’: how Tom Conti became the MLK of the 21st century

To the final frontier of identity politics, and a preposterously late debut in this column for acting’s Tom Conti.

Indeed, Lost in Showbiz has left it so late that Contism – absolute Contism – has become an established doctrine. Though Mr Conti found fame as an actor, starring in such favourites as Shirley Valentine and Reuben, Reuben, he is now widely acknowledged for his work in the field of making objections to things in the London village of Hampstead, where he owns a £17.5m house.

Mostly, they are planning objections – his last outing was against the development of a Sainsbury’s, in a performance that critics are already calling his finest since the time he didn’t want his next-door neighbour Thierry Henry to build a fishtank.

But his latest and arguably greatest intervention is an objection to a particular strain of hate speech. By way of background, Conti is part of a group of other local actors who are reflexively opposed to such things as war and leafblowers. Your Emma Thompsons, your Janet Suzmans. Last week, their seemingly tireless objections to the advent of mid-range supermarkets – as well as plans for the cycle superhighway – saw them branded “livid luvvies” by one councillor in a letter to the local paper.

Invited to address this designation, Conti made what I think will become one of the most pivotal speeches in the history of the early-21st-century civil-rights movement. The word luvvie, he told the Daily Mail, is “as abusive as ‘Yid’ or ‘n******’.” Go on, Tom. Actually don’t go on – I need a minute.

All right, go on now. “It’s a horrible expression,” Tom continued. “It’s pejorative, denigrative and demeaning.” God, yes. It deffo stains us all. In fact, how about if – instead of building the supermarket – they built a museum to the time when rich actors were kept as slaves? I know these places can be a really harrowing visit, but it’s just so important we tell the stories and educate future generations about the barbarity.

[...]

The good news is that while Tom is undoubtedly the Rosa Parks of this thing – if not its MLK – he is not alone. Enter Peter Egan, most recently seen in Downton Abbey, who knows exactly what Conti is talking about. “If actors are voicing an opinion, in many cases a true opinion,” Egan explained, “the way to dismiss that is to downgrade them with a diminishing term for a name. It was exactly the same in Vietnam. The American troops ... ” Hang on. Hang on. Again, I’m going to have to put Peter on hold there for a minute, because that got heavy and it got heavy FAST. I know the very last line that should have popped into my head is the Dude’s cordial inquiry of Walter Sobchak in The Big Lebowski. To wit: “Walter! What the fuck does this have to do with Vietnam?” Even so, the line is there. Peter! What the fuck does this have to do with Vietnam?

Was Egan in ’Nam? No, he was in Cold Comfort Farm, a 1968 BBC adaptation that also starred Alastair Sim and Brian Blessed. Probably fairly lively in the pub after wrapping for the day, but still marginally less gruelling than the Tet offensive.

Anyway, let’s permit Peter to finish: “It was exactly the same in Vietnam. The American troops used to call the Viet Cong ‘Charlie’. It’s a cheap way of scoring points. And I do find it offensive, personally.” Damn straight. Just like his forebear in rights activism, Egan ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No Viet Cong never called him luvvie. Even so, I’ve never felt gladder that Penelope Wilton didn’t end up leaving Richard Briers for him in Ever Decreasing Circles.

As for Conti, he didn’t watch his buddies die face down in the muck just so some draft-dodging local councillor could fail to thank him for his service. The tragedy, of course, is what happens to veterans like Tom when they come home – home to Hampstead from theatreland or a movie set – and find some townsfolk either unwilling to understand what they’ve been through, or moved to use hate speech against them. Frankly, the fact that Tom has still to find a buyer for his house,despite recently knocking £2.5m off the price, makes it overwhelmingly clear where this all leaves him. Namely: down in the shadows of the penitentiary, out by the gas fires of the refinery. He’s 10 years burning down the road – nowhere to run, nowhere to go...​


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 27, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> it's a turn of phrase, like 'violentpanda's a gent', which shouldn't be taken literally.



Damned right it shouldn't! A "gent"? Perish the thought! Utter calumny!


----------



## hot air baboon (May 27, 2016)




----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2016)

Tony Blair: Corbyn government would be a dangerous experiment


----------



## ska invita (May 28, 2016)

hot air baboon said:


> View attachment 87715



worth a  read

France’s chaos stems from its failure to adapt to globalisation | Natalie Nougayrède


----------



## cantsin (May 28, 2016)

ska invita said:


> worth a  read
> 
> France’s chaos stems from its failure to adapt to globalisation | Natalie Nougayrède



What a rotten load of neo lib drivel that was - top rated comment nails it : 


507508
Or, maybe the French can see the Rat of globalisation for the vicious rodent it is. All strength to their resistance.


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2016)

Norwich slebchef cooksplains history to us....



> The much-maligned European Union, which in essence is a group of democratic countries attempting to work alongside each other, has now become a fierce battleground in the direct line of fire of some vicious rhetoric. The most abhorrent and offensive of all was the EU being compared to, of all things, Hitler and nazism. Hang on a minute, isn’t there a crossed wire here somewhere? Was it not within that horrendous regime that the very idea of egotistical, xenophobic and isolationist sovereignty was originally conceived?


Wow

e2a :


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2016)

> Was it not within that horrendous regime that the very idea of egotistical, xenophobic and isolationist sovereignty was originally conceived?



yes, hitler invented the nation state.


----------



## killer b (May 28, 2016)

In an interview yesterday, the guardian told racist wife-beater mel gibson it was nice to have him back as a leading man, and no mention in the article of the reason he's been out of favour lately.


----------



## Flavour (May 28, 2016)

ska invita said:


> worth a  read
> 
> France’s chaos stems from its failure to adapt to globalisation | Natalie Nougayrède



I want to throw up.


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2016)

ska invita said:


> worth a  read
> 
> France’s chaos stems from its failure to adapt to globalisation | Natalie Nougayrède



I will have this to point to whenever anyone asks 'what is wrong with the guardian?'


----------



## Dogsauce (May 28, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Tony Blair: Corbyn government would be a dangerous experiment



I note that they didn't allow the target of his attack (or anyone associated with him) a chance to reply and also turned off the comments, basically giving him a free hit at Corbyn. Spineless cowardice.

Hopefully it's just a dry run for having to turn the comments off on any Blair article in a few month's time for reasons of sub judice.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 29, 2016)

Oxbridge tosser sneers at people who post too many photo's on social media. 

Posting photos online is not living. You are producing your own obituary | Rana Dasgupta

What gets about this sort of judgmental cobblers is that somebody felt it merited a column in  a national newspaper. 
Never come across this twonk before - is he filling in for Johnathon Jones?

ETA - highly rated novelist apparently.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 29, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Oxbridge tosser sneers at people who post too many photo's on social media.
> 
> Posting photos online is not living. You are producing your own obituary | Rana Dasgupta
> 
> ...


"I don't know how everyone used to behave, and I don't know what or why they do now either, but to sum up, people nowadays are awful."


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 29, 2016)

Kaka Tim said:


> Oxbridge tosser sneers at people who post too many photo's on social media.
> 
> Posting photos online is not living. You are producing your own obituary | Rana Dasgupta
> 
> ...



That's like something you'd read on here tbh.


----------



## Flavour (May 30, 2016)

We've wasted so much time talking about how the tories have smashed the NHS, the BBC, etc., but bad as those things are, they're distracting us from Cameron's worst crime : calling a referendum on the EU. The EU referendum should be a matter for parliament | David Mitchell.


----------



## Moook (May 30, 2016)

"we live in a representative democracy not a plebiscite democracy"

No we don't. Representative democracy stands as a proxy for plebiscite democracy. We should welcome any chance we' get to indulge in the real thing. Crying "it's all too confusing, I don't know what to do" is a self-infantilising crock of shit piece of surrender monkeyism to the managerialist political class.
How the fuck isn't he staunch in his desire to remain? The logical outcome of an attitude like his is to hand over all responsibility to the experts in Brussels...let them do the hard thinking for us. Cunts.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 30, 2016)

Moook said:


> "we live in a representative democracy not a plebiscite democracy"
> 
> No we don't. Representative democracy stands as a proxy for plebiscite democracy. We should welcome any chance we' get to indulge in the real thing. Crying "it's all too confusing, I don't know what to do" is a self-infantilising crock of shit piece of surrender monkeyism to the managerialist political class.
> How the fuck isn't *he *staunch in his desire to remain? The logical outcome of an attitude like his is to hand over all responsibility to the experts in Brussels...let them do the hard thinking for us. Cunts.



Who?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 30, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> Who?



Raul Moat's best mate.


----------



## Moook (May 31, 2016)

Rail Moat's best mates:

1) me mam
2) Jesus
3) wur kev
4) big Len from the Madison
5) Paul Ignatius De Gascon.


----------



## Moook (May 31, 2016)

Buckaroo said:


> Who?



1) David Michell and his ilk...which is considerable
2) the European Commision
3) the apathetic
4) anyone lacking my political insight
5) those whose consciousness lacks verisimilitude
6) people who are genuine cunts for reasons other than political backsliding


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 31, 2016)

Moook, just have a bit of a nap, get some shut-eye and sleep it off.


----------



## NoXion (May 31, 2016)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Moook, just have a bit of a nap, get some shut-eye and sleep it off.



You can sleep off stupid?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 1, 2016)

Credit where credit's due: this is strong stuff, on the dangers of solo working in the high street bookie industry.

The big gamble: the dangerous world of British betting shops | Tom Lamont


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 1, 2016)

Interesting subject, fucking awful article:

The supposed superiority of the UK intelligence agencies is a myth | Mary Dejevsky


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 1, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Interesting subject, fucking awful article:
> 
> The supposed superiority of the UK intelligence agencies is a myth | Mary Dejevsky



Fucking awful journo.


----------



## Sue (Jun 2, 2016)

Why do some ethnic minority voters want to leave the EU?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2016)

the Graunid coverage surrounding the Laura Kuenssberg booing is disgusting


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 2, 2016)

E.M. O'Hagan says


> *Labour must stop booing the media – they’re Jeremy Corbyn’s best hope *
> Labour must stop booing the media – they’re Jeremy Corbyn’s best hope | Ellie Mae O’Hagan



Forgive her, she's been living at an address on Pluto for the last year or so.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2016)

J Ed said:


> the Graunid coverage surrounding the Laura Kuenssberg booing is disgusting


because...


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> E.M. O'Hagan says
> 
> 
> Forgive her, she's been living at an address on Pluto for the last year or so.


That's actually an excellent piece, you should read the article, not just the headline.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 2, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> E.M. O'Hagan says
> 
> 
> > *Labour must stop booing the media – they’re Jeremy Corbyn’s best hope *
> ...



Is there a kind of variant of Betteridge's Law which states that whenever a headline tells anyone what they 'should' or 'must' do, either they definitely shouldn't or they already are?

Labour must stop booing the media. Er... they have, or rather the twelve or so of them who started booing in the first place have. They only did it for a second or two, and they stopped when Corbyn very gently shushed them. Are these the same dangerous lefty entryists who are going to destabilise the party, and drag the country back to the 70s if they get a sniff of power? Scary stuff.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Is there a kind of variant of Betteridge's Law which states that whenever a headline tells anyone what they 'should' or 'must' do, either they definitely shouldn't or they already are?
> 
> Labour must stop booing the media. Er... they have, or rather the twelve or so of them who started booing in the first place have. They only did it for a second or two, and they stopped when Corbyn very gently shushed them. Are these the same dangerous lefty entryists who are going to destabilise the party, and drag the country back to the 70s if they get a sniff of power? Scary stuff.



Funny how many of the people who are horrified by a journalist being booed think that bombing and invading other countries is great, and that objecting to that bombing or invading is uncivil.


----------



## killer b (Jun 2, 2016)

It's not a bad article tbf.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> because...



It's just woe is me crap

EU referendum: Merkel says UK will lose out if it leaves EU - as it happened



> Which takes us on to the way the journalists were treated at the event, the booing after ITV’s Chris Ship asked a question about the claim that Corbyn’s campaigning has been half-hearted (see 10.36am) and the hissing at the very mention of the name Laura Kuenssberg (see 11.19am.) This has happened before, and not just at Labour events, and compared to the hazards some reporters face in the course of their work, it is trivial. But it is also indicative of a growing tendency to demonise the media which ought to be worrying if people are still reliant on them (us) to inform the public.



Why is it that journos can never fail, only be failed by their readers and critics? Why are none of these critiques ever valid? Is the growing tendency to 'demonise the media' not a reaction to the rapid transformation of most political journalists into sophists for entrenched power?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2016)

killer b said:


> It's not a bad article tbf.


its certainly not as hostile as the title suggests.


----------



## killer b (Jun 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> its certainly not as hostile as the title suggests.


Pretty much the same argument I was trying to make last night on the corbyn/media thread, between bouts of trying to get to sleep


----------



## JimW (Jun 2, 2016)

Saw these gems of liberal journalism highlighted when this link was posted elsewhere (my bold)


> The powerful, *hardline* CGT union is locked in a standoff with the government, demanding a withdrawal of labour reforms designed to loosenFrance’s rigid workplace regulations and make it easier to hire and fire.
> 
> After days of blockades and strikes, fuel depots have been *liberated *by police and petrol supply almost restored to normal


ETA You should add "rigid workplace regulation" as further evidence of buying one agenda completely.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2016)

fuel really is the chokepoint isn't it?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2016)

JimW said:


> Saw these gems of liberal journalism highlighted when this link was posted elsewhere (my bold)
> 
> ETA You should add "rigid workplace regulation" as further evidence of buying one agenda completely.



graunid coverage of the labour unrest in France has been grotesque.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 2, 2016)

J Ed said:


> It's just woe is me crap
> 
> EU referendum: Merkel says UK will lose out if it leaves EU - as it happened
> 
> ...



Yes, and their right to spout any old specious bollocks loudly and repeatedly is 'freedom of the press' while our right to tell them we think it's specious bollocks is 'attempted suppression of freedom of the press'.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> its certainly not as hostile as the title suggests.


It's almost as if it's ... clickbait


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Yes, and their right to spout any old specious bollocks loudly and repeatedly is 'freedom of the press' while our right to tell them we think it's specious bollocks is 'attempted suppression of freedom of the press'.



Or bullying or sexism or racism or envy politics etc


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 3, 2016)

belboid said:


> It's almost as if it's ... clickbait


You Will Be ASTONISHED At The Depths They Will Plumb Just To Get Mugs To Click On Their Crap!!!


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 3, 2016)

Courting a media that is hostile to you rarely, if ever, pays off. Claiming that Labour needs to play nice with the Tory media is naive in the extreme.


----------



## belboid (Jun 3, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> Courting a media that is hostile to you rarely, if ever, pays off. Claiming that Labour needs to play nice with the Tory media is naive in the extreme.


You still haven't read the article have you? It doesn't say to do that.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 3, 2016)

It's not an anti-Corbyn article but it does illustrate the blind spot that a lot of journalists seem to have about this sort of thing; they're constantly saying "you need to engage with the media" but many seem unable to see that _this is a media strategy_. Like somehow Team Corbyn has forgotten that the cameras are around and are just being naturally grumpy... you know, like in that entire documentary.


----------



## stavros (Jun 3, 2016)

Luxembourg and Britain are entwined - Brexit can only hurt both badly


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 6, 2016)




----------



## agricola (Jun 7, 2016)

Meanwhile, at the legion of doom....


----------



## Flavour (Jun 7, 2016)

How to live like a billionaire on the cheap

Because billionaire lifestyles are desirable, and we should aspire to them.
The Guardian's idea of "on the cheap", of course.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 7, 2016)

stavros said:


> Luxembourg and Britain are entwined - Brexit can only hurt both badly



Doesn't mention dodging tax once


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 9, 2016)

Peak Guardian?



> Tickets are on sale for the new London West End stage show Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, and the inevitable online explosion in tickets getting resold – a single £130 ticket went for £2,000 – proves what I have always suspected: theatre is a horrendous apartheid world that discriminates in favour of the smug rich, and cinema is a socialist utopia where everyone is welcome equally. You want tickets to the new Harry Potter play? Good luck. You’d better be well connected or well off.
> 
> But when new Harry Potter movies were coming out, fans were treated democratically. They had access to the films and DVDs, and everyone from the hedge fund manager to the student nurse (or indeed the single mother forced to write books in the local cafe) paid the same and got the same experience.
> 
> Now, I admit that live transmission of theatre into cinemas changes the game a bit. But what about cracking down on exploitative ticket-scalping? How about having the original buyers’ names printed on tickets, and making people show ID on the door? Otherwise the Potter play is just creating a grisly resale market, and magicking up profits for secondary ticket websites.





"Touts charge 2 grand for a ticket and its all the theatres fault"


----------



## belboid (Jun 9, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> Peak Guardian?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why make up a quote? Are you another one who can't be arsed to read an article and just assumes it says whatever you want it to say.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 9, 2016)

belboid said:


> Why make up a quote? Are you another one who can't be arsed to read an article and just assumes it says whatever you want it to say.



I'm summarising what I think the article is trying to say. Its certainly not any kind of apartheid that some arseholes are charging a mint for the tickets.


----------



## belboid (Jun 9, 2016)

Boris uses the same kind of 'summarising' to come up with his brexit figures. So 'apartheid' is the wrong word, but the gist of the article (it's not on that poorer people are priced out of the theatre) is spot on.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 9, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> I'm summarising what I think the article is trying to say. Its certainly not any kind of apartheid that some arseholes are charging a mint for the tickets.


I don't think it's saying that at all, just suggesting one way theatres could try to prevent scalping.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2016)

scifisam said:


> I don't think it's saying that at all, just suggesting one way theatres could try to prevent scalping.


TBF forty-one words in we get: “theatre is a horrendous apartheid world”


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2016)

need to work on my campaign to bring the interval back to the cinema. You never know when its safe to piss these days, oh did I miss anything? yeah three decapitations and a minutes exposition. Fuck.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> need to work on my campaign to bring the interval back to the cinema. You never know when its safe to piss these days, oh did I miss anything? yeah three decapitations and a minutes exposition. Fuck.


can you not go a few hours without a slash?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> need to work on my campaign to bring the interval back to the cinema. You never know when its safe to piss these days, oh did I miss anything? yeah three decapitations and a minutes exposition. Fuck.


I had you pegged as an extra large cup kinda guy - 40 oz out, 40 oz in.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> can you not go a few hours without a slash?


definition of a good cinema experience and a quality film: credits roll and the pictures that had me so entranced go away and the bladder says YOU SNUCK A TIN IN WITH YOU SO NOW YOU MUST PAY THE PORCELAIN PRICE. If I notice the desire for a fag and a piss before the film is finished then its not a good sign. Similar with books. If you find yourself analysing it two chapters in rather than reveling in the text? not a good sign


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> definition of a good cinema experience and a quality film: credits roll and the pictures that had me so entranced go away and the bladder says YOU SNUCK A TIN IN WITH YOU SO NOW YOU MUST PAY THE PORCELAIN PRICE. If I notice the desire for a fag and a piss before the film is finished then its not a good sign. Similar with books. If you find yourself analysing it two chapters in rather than reveling in the text? not a good sign


i can drink 4 pints before I need to go. I am blessed.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> i can drink 4 pints before I need to go. I am blessed.



But a piss a pint thereafter?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> i can drink 4 pints before I need to go. I am blessed.


Surely "dehydrated"


----------



## stavros (Jun 9, 2016)

Scientists aren't gods. They deserve scrutiny, says Simon Jenkins, seemingly unaware of which particular profession is largely responsible for public misinterpretation of scientific research.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Surely "dehydrated"


the opposite, surely?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> the opposite, surely?


If you need to drink 4 pints before going for a piss you are clearly dehydrated to start off with.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> If you need to drink 4 pints before going for a piss you are clearly dehydrated to start off with.


it's standard though, and i drink plenty of water in the day


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> it's standard though, and i drink plenty of water in the day


If you drink a pint or indeed any other measure it takes 45 mins to get to your bladder. Your bladder holds in the region of 450ml, which is less than a pint. Assuming an average of 30 mins per pint you should have something in your bladder by the time you're halfway through your second pint. If it takes around 2 hours before you need a piss and a fluid intake of more than 2 litres you are clearly dehydrated when you start.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2016)

nope


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> nope


Yes, you've said that time and again but tbh I don't believe you.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Yes, you've said that time and again but tbh I don't believe you.


ok then, you strange little man.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 10, 2016)

omgz getting your shopping on the same day you buy it

Amazon Fresh is a triumph for the culture of instant gratification | Masuma Rahim


----------



## fractionMan (Jun 10, 2016)

stavros said:


> Scientists aren't gods. They deserve scrutiny, says Simon Jenkins, seemingly unaware of which particular profession is largely responsible for public misinterpretation of scientific research.



fucking hell

science does this, science does that.  He's a fucking idiot.


----------



## Corax (Jun 12, 2016)

Headline today:

*The cancer drugs in your bathroom cabinet*
Researchers have had promising results treating tumours with everyday medicines. So why aren’t the big pharma companies investing in trials?

Er... I think I know this one...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 12, 2016)

Corax said:


> Headline today:
> 
> *The cancer drugs in your bathroom cabinet*
> Researchers have had promising results treating tumours with everyday medicines. So why aren’t the big pharma companies investing in trials?
> ...


It's on the tip of my tongue, I just can't quite remember at the moment, probably just a bit hungry. The answer will come to me after I've had a late, late breakfast.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 20, 2016)

> *Notting Hill Carnival co-founder Sam King dies at 90*
> The Jamaican who arrived in the UK on the Emperor Windrush ‘changed the face of London for the better’, according to Jeremy Corbyn



Notting Hill Carnival co-founder Sam King dies at 90


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 20, 2016)

Okay, _Obbo_, but still:

My middle-age dread


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jun 20, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Okay, _Obbo_, but still:
> 
> 
> My middle-age dread


I clicked on that link; I don't know why. It was long and tedious and after a while I started to skip bits until I gave up with it. Don't go there if you have anything else to do.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 20, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Okay, _Obbo_, but still:
> 
> My middle-age dread



shame, always liked MS, and she still hasnt come out vs Corbo that I know of ( same as Alex Petridis asfaik ) 
- but that piece is hard work, book extract or not : (


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 20, 2016)

An article that would be a lot better with the addition of an S to the headline.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 20, 2016)

cantsin said:


> shame, always liked MS, and she still hasnt come out vs Corbo that I know of ( same as Alex Petridis asfaik )
> - but that piece is hard work, book extract or not : (


Innit - I always enjoyed her in _Select_ and on _Raw Soup_, but that, that is just... Turgid, hackneyed, badly pastiched pastiche of Polly Filler with banality dialled up to eleven. AMIRITE?!

I mean, come on - a book extract is meant to have juicy titbits that make you _want to get the bloody book_.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 20, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Okay, _Obbo_, but still:
> 
> My middle-age dread


First world problems, eh? Maybe I could organize a Mirandaid benefit gig in Freetown.

The worst of it is, I can remember when the Observer was a genuinely great paper.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 20, 2016)

It was never the same after they sacked off Kim Philby.


----------



## captainmission (Jun 20, 2016)

Guardian writer lives among the savages; reports back on their bestial customs.



> There was also the constant smell of people smoking marijuana in public, suggesting normal civic codes had been abandoned. You could argue that this makes Gorton a more liberal and tolerant neighbourhood. However, I see it as a sign that local people are not paying due regard to the accepted norms of society.





> Thirdly (and one that affected our house as an end terrace), local people didn’t recycle their goods in the usual manner, but simply dumped them at the end of the terrace. It would be collected once a month by the council or picked off by the local rag-and-bone men, who toured the area regularly. But if you cared for the future of your neighbourhood why would you do such a thing, as it can only contribute to making it have a grotty, down-at-heel feel?


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 20, 2016)

I've only a passing acquaintance with Manchester, but even I know Gorton isn't remotely on the road to Didsbury.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 20, 2016)

captainmission said:


> Guardian writer lives among the savages; reports back on their bestial customs.



I didn't know that it was possible to convey quite that much condescension through writing style, I mean it's an extremely unpleasant article but stylistically I'm almost sort of impressed.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 20, 2016)

It's part of  series called 'resilient cities'.

Not much more i can say about that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I didn't know that it was possible to convey quite that much condescension through writing style


have you not been reading Youngians posts?


----------



## captainmission (Jun 20, 2016)

Plumdaff said:


> I've only a passing acquaintance with Manchester, but even I know Gorton isn't remotely on the road to Didsbury.



It's probably where he escapes to. you can't expect our dashing urban explorer to go to a pub in Gorton can you? I mean some of these people even lack the aspiration to be embarrassed of themselves. At least the Asians of Longsight manage to be so much more vibrant and lively in their in there almost entirely equivalent levels of child poverty.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 21, 2016)

captainmission said:


> Guardian writer lives among the savages; reports back on their bestial customs.





> Raymond lives with a Wife and Daughter and is also developing a new restaurant in London due to open in 2018. Although now living and working in London, where he has fallen in love with the absolute urban buzz of London, Raymond has never forgotten his humble Liverpool roots and is a regular visiter to his place of birth.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2016)

This is 'real'....


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> This is 'real'....


Maybe if it was vardy. Or even Rooney.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 21, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Maybe if it was vardy. Or even Rooney.


Bale?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Bale?


Out


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 21, 2016)

brogdale said:


> This is 'real'....



Did he understand the question?


----------



## emanymton (Jun 21, 2016)

captainmission said:


> Guardian writer lives among the savages; reports back on their bestial customs.


What really fucks me off about this is how all the problems of living there are made out to be the fault of the people. Like the house was cold and had damp, but not one word about the scum landlords who own these places. No it's all because of some lack of community spurt or some shit.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 22, 2016)

'Speaks truth to power'.


----------



## Santino (Jun 22, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> View attachment 88741
> 
> 'Speaks truth to power'.


'Oh my, you are powerful.'


----------



## Sue (Jun 23, 2016)

'Flyposted' means 'stuck two bits of paper to their window with sellotape'.

I wanted to take a stand for remain – so I flyposted Ukip’s office | Laura Barton


----------



## two sheds (Jun 23, 2016)

Shouldn't minimize her heroic action, criminal damage that is.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 23, 2016)

Sue said:


> 'Flyposted' means 'stuck two bits of paper to their window with sellotape'.
> 
> I wanted to take a stand for remain – so I flyposted Ukip’s office | Laura Barton



This must be the 'speaking truth to power' they were on about.


----------



## Sue (Jun 23, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Shouldn't minimize her heroic action, criminal damage that is.


(((Heroic action)))


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 25, 2016)

This one will take your breath away:

Uzbekistan's magnificent cities: where Soviet style meets Islamic heritage

Care to guess how many times ‘human rights’, ‘torture’, ‘corrupt government’, ‘women's rights’, ‘oppressive policing’ etc feature in the article?

Human rights in Uzbekistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## J Ed (Jun 25, 2016)

Come for the gorgeous architecture, stay for the boiling alive of dissidents


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 25, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Come for the gorgeous architecture, stay for the boiling alive of dissidents



A vibrant destination! Definitely a buzz about the place (though that might just be the electrodes humming in the basement cells).


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 25, 2016)

This is pretty awesome:



> ...Although it was far too early to know the precise impact of the vote on healthcare or pensions, Lockett knows she wants to stay in Spain.
> 
> “We’ve got to wait and see,” she said. “We have a brilliant lifestyle here and I don’t want to go back to the UK. You can’t fault Spanish healthcare and we can’t afford private healthcare.”
> 
> ...



'I'm devastated – it's unbelievable': Brits in Spain react to Brexit


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 25, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> A vibrant destination! Definitely a buzz about the place (though that might just be the electrodes humming in the basement cells).



I would actually like to visit Uzbekistan. A Russian friend is from there originally, her grandparents were deported with the Russian Far East's Korean population to the Central Asian SSRs by Stalin's goverment.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 25, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> This is pretty awesome:
> 
> 
> 
> 'I'm devastated – it's unbelievable': Brits in Spain react to Brexit


I thought all their comments were quite reasonable.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 26, 2016)

I decided to buy a paper yesterday for the first time in years for reading about Brexit stuff. After much deliberation and suspicious glances from shop staff due to my loitering by the news stand I went for the Guardian, even though the Torygraph looked more fun and was 90p cheaper. 

I'd forgotten just how much shite there is in the weekend supplements. Tim Dowling's Ultimate Festival Guide. Why does Jessie Eisenberg feel so anxious? Table tennis, opera and nostalgia. My turning point - three days on my sickbed in Sydenham reading Proust. Hipster Battenberg cake. 

The promised Brexit special supplement was as light as a feather in comparison.


----------



## magneze (Jun 26, 2016)

Has Brexit put a downer on Glastonbury? Reaction from festival-goers – video


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 27, 2016)

New angle on referendum, new angle on referendum, new angle on referendum....

...I know: what does Jamie fecking Oliver think?


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 29, 2016)

Jeremy Corbyn: After the Experiment

What's that, Guardian? I can't hear properly over that newsroom full of hacks rubbing their hands together gleefully.

Just imagine - the supposed mainstream party of the left 'experimenting' with left-wing politics.


----------



## phildwyer (Jun 29, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Jeremy Corbyn: After the Experiment



That's an unbelievable piece.  The cavalier dismissal of any kind of popular vote, whether the referendum or the leadership election.  This pretty much sums it up: "the rulebook becomes immaterial when there is no ability to do the basic job."

Or in other words: we'll cheat if we can't win.  Remember this next time they start pontificating about democracy.


----------



## Sifta (Jun 29, 2016)

"Jorge Otero-Pailos applied latex to walls in Westminster Hall to lift out centuries of dirt. But he can’t remove the post-Brexit stains of British politics"
The Ethics of Dust: a latex requiem for a dying Westminster

When you read it, he didn't even apply the latex, just pulled it out of the conservators garbage


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 29, 2016)

For comedy value:

If you value the Guardian's coverage of Brexit, please help to fund it | Katharine Viner


----------



## Flavour (Jun 30, 2016)

They've changed the headline now to:
"If everyone chipped in, the Guardian's future would be more secure."

So it's not just brexit. it's the whole thing. HA!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 4, 2016)

Not the Guardian, but, you know...
How my dream gap year in Africa turned into a nightmare


----------



## emanymton (Jul 4, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Not the Guardian, but, you know...
> How my dream gap year in Africa turned into a nightmare


The journo is making this up right? No one would actually say this? 



> it was hard to remember how I’d ended up there, 6,000 miles from home. An 18-year-old Scot and former pupil of the prestigious Fettes College, I had come to Africa with hopes of helping some of the world’s poorest people


----------



## Sue (Jul 4, 2016)

emanymton said:


> The journo is making this up right? No one would actually say this?


No idea but horribly written though I did like: 

'Clenching my jaw to stop my teeth chattering, I squeezed my eyes shut and reminded myself *how I’d come to be a central character in this horror story.'
*
Because obviously the war in the Congo was all about her.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Not the Guardian, but, you know...
> How my dream gap year in Africa turned into a nightmare


I'm sure there's a telegraph thread


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2016)

phildwyer said:


> That's an unbelievable piece.  The cavalier dismissal of any kind of popular vote, whether the referendum or the leadership election.  This pretty much sums it up: "the rulebook becomes immaterial when there is no ability to do the basic job."
> 
> Or in other words: we'll cheat if we can't win.  Remember this next time they start pontificating about democracy.


Sure, we all remember Iran 1953


----------



## YouSir (Jul 4, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Not the Guardian, but, you know...
> How my dream gap year in Africa turned into a nightmare



Jesus, thank God her and her 'long angel hair' made it out then, all's well that ends well.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 4, 2016)

Not pictured: 'Corbyn still supported by majority of Labour party', 'anti-Corbyn plotters all too chickenshit to actually run against him' and 'referendum result not Corbyn's fault anyway'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2016)

Sue said:


> 'Flyposted' means 'stuck two bits of paper to their window with sellotape'.
> 
> I wanted to take a stand for remain – so I flyposted Ukip’s office | Laura Barton


Pisspoor. When I was at school I went there in the middle of the night and glued the locks. If I could do that at the age of 17 surely this prosing journo could do something more interesting than a couple of raggedy bits of paper.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 4, 2016)

It's always a good idea to target your message at those least likely to agree with you.


----------



## belboid (Jul 4, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Not the Guardian, but, you know...
> How my dream gap year in Africa turned into a nightmare


Not only atrociously written white saviour complex bollocks, it's also (shock horror) not true - Delusional White Woman Louise Linton Draws Ire of African Twitter for Egregious "Zambian Memoir"


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 4, 2016)

belboid said:


> Not only atrociously written white saviour complex bollocks, it's also (shock horror) not true - Delusional White Woman Louise Linton Draws Ire of African Twitter for Egregious "Zambian Memoir"


it reminded me of a skin crawling piece by Geoff Dyer in Yoga For People Who Can't Be Bothered in which he internally debates on why he should spend 100 Dong on a warm can of coke from a blind child. (I'm sure I'm exaggophrasing here, but he does that to you)


----------



## phildwyer (Jul 5, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Pisspoor. When I was at school I went there in the middle of the night and glued the locks.



Why?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2016)

phildwyer said:


> Why?


More chance of being caught in the daytime


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 5, 2016)

belboid said:


> Not only atrociously written white saviour complex bollocks, it's also (shock horror) not true - Delusional White Woman Louise Linton Draws Ire of African Twitter for Egregious "Zambian Memoir"


An African response:



(best student I ever had, currently involved in the campaign against extra-judicial executions by the Kenyan police)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2016)

What's the common name for that really big terrorist attack in America all them years back?



> He says the attack on 9/9 was like no other. It was perceived as an attack on freedom.



Cheers, _Graun _


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> What's the common name for that really big terrorist attack in America all them years back?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers, _Graun _


see and they won't give me a job.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> see and they won't give me a job.


Just rock up one day and start 'hotdesking' on Monbiot's seat. If anyone enquires just say "Tristram" said it was alright.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 9, 2016)

Desperate stuff:Jeremy Corbyn's staff accused of being 'petty' as rebel MPs' aides are locked out


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 9, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Desperate stuff:Jeremy Corbyn's staff accused of being 'petty' as rebel MPs' aides are locked out



The actual story:

The email to the House of Commons sergeant-at-arms did not order the cancellation of the passes but merely informed the parliamentary authorities that the list of advisers were no longer employed by the Labour party.​Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 9, 2016)

Some of the comments lack perspective:

We are in trouble in this country, as the opposition is more interested in personal one-upmanship and cod Stalinist purges than actually opposing what is fast becoming the most serious problem we have faced since ww2.​Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 9, 2016)

Louis MacNeice said:


> The actual story:
> 
> The email to the House of Commons sergeant-at-arms did not order the cancellation of the passes but merely informed the parliamentary authorities that the list of advisers were no longer employed by the Labour party.​Cheers - Louis MacNeice



Exactly. 'Evil Corbynites correctly follow basic admin procedure!'


----------



## Mr.Dogg (Jul 9, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Desperate stuff:Jeremy Corbyn's staff accused of being 'petty' as rebel MPs' aides are locked out



I've been a supporter of Corbyn from day one, but after reading this article- NO MORE!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 9, 2016)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Some of the comments lack perspective:
> 
> We are in trouble in this country, as the opposition is more interested in personal one-upmanship and cod Stalinist purges than actually opposing what is fast becoming the most serious problem we have faced since ww2.​Cheers - Louis MacNeice



Those dark days when the NKVD would knock in the middle of the night and take away your gym access.


----------



## Mr.Dogg (Jul 9, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Those dark days when the NKVD would knock in the middle of the night and take away your gym access.



I think this story will be the downfall of Corbyn- how can he honestly stand up and denounce Tony Blair for lying his way into an illegal war that led to hundreds of thousand of people dying, when he's just cancelled the house of commons gym passes of former aides of former shadow ministers? His position is untenable.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 9, 2016)

Mr.Dogg said:


> I think this story will be the downfall of Corbyn- how can he honestly stand up and denounce Tony Blair for lying his way into an illegal war that led to hundreds of thousand of people dying, when he's just cancelled the house of commons gym passes of former aides of former shadow ministers? His position is untenable.



It's actually even worse than that. He didn't have to cancel anything. He just informed the authorities in a phrase redolent with red terror, that the advisers 'were no longer employed by the Labour Party'; such is the threatening cult of personality which surrounds him, that no more need be said. The gym passes, were duly consigned to the dustbin of history.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## mauvais (Jul 9, 2016)

All aboard the Southern chaos train: the commuters caught in a war on rails

"There's something wrong with my railway service", cries a Sussex-dwelling, London-working hedge fund manager who previously worked on its privatisation. Oh, my tears.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 9, 2016)

Mark Steel caught me the other day 

*He might be right on Iraq, but Jeremy Corbyn can't do up his tie*

to which I gave a premature 

with the article starting: 




> Like Tony Blair, we were all duped by the intelligence on Saddam Hussein – except for the millions that went on marches, and Nelson Mandela, and France, and the Pope, and the chief weapons inspector, and Robin Cook


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 9, 2016)

two sheds said:


> Mark Steel caught me the other day
> 
> *He might be right on Iraq, but Jeremy Corbyn can't do up his tie*
> 
> ...



*COFF*



> *Why the Guardian is going down the pan!*




```
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-iraq-war-chilcot-report-tony-blair-right-important-matter-doing-up-tie-a7125521.html
```


----------



## two sheds (Jul 9, 2016)

Poor choice of thread title what do you expect?




... but it does explain why I couldn't find it on the Guardian site when I looked first


----------



## brogdale (Jul 9, 2016)

> Labour has been plunged into its* “greatest crisis for generations”* as a leadership bid was launched against Jeremy Corbyn and its biggest union donor *waged war *on the party’s deputy leader.
> In an *extraordinary day of bloodletting*, Angela Eagle, who recently resigned as shadow business secretary, announced her bid to topple Corbyn, accusing him of failing to fulfil “his first and foremost duty” of holding ministers to account and being ready for government.
> With the Labour party closer to *splitting* than at any point since the formation of the SDP in 1981, Eagle said.....


Top work, there.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 9, 2016)

Cohen's latest rant (comments locked until tomorrow) amounts to a hate filled declaration of war on the left. The wounded beasts of the liberal commentariat are really going to go for it this time, no holds barred.  Utter scum.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 9, 2016)

Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups | The Guardian Shop - from Guardian Reader Offers


----------



## Ole (Jul 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups | The Guardian Shop - from Guardian Reader Offers


 

Democracy is a bastard.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 9, 2016)

Ole said:


> Democracy is a bastard.


I have an idea of quotes from totalitarians misascribed to social democrats on Guardian branded t-shirts


----------



## J Ed (Jul 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I have an idea of quotes from totalitarians misascribed to social democrats on Guardian branded t-shirts



"Sooner will a camel pass through a needle's eye than a great man be 'discovered' by an election" - Neil Kinnock


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 9, 2016)

"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed" - Tony Blair


----------



## Sue (Jul 9, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups | The Guardian Shop - from Guardian Reader Offers


Shows a surprising amount of self-awareness...


----------



## gosub (Jul 9, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> “You've let yourself down, you've let your family down, you've let Biddy Baxter down”


Never proved it was Magpie


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 10, 2016)

The Guardian needs a new description under its' Masthead -
"The Guardian
The paper where (for the most part), middle class social liberals with economically conservative ideas argue against democracy"


----------



## Sifta (Jul 10, 2016)

Cohen:

"when Jeremy Corbyn came for Labour, not one of his opponents had a coherent argument to oppose him with"

Failure to confront Britain’s political ultras has cost us dear | Nick Cohen


----------



## two sheds (Jul 10, 2016)

Beginning of second paragraph:



> So deep does the desire to appear united run, social democrats pretend even now that “Labour is a family”, while all around them far leftists spit abuse.



Taking us to the (from what we've seen) utterly dishonest "No longer welcome in my own home" piece.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 10, 2016)

Neoliberals aren't social democrats.

Social democrats aren't 'far left'.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 10, 2016)

Sifta said:


> Cohen:
> 
> "when Jeremy Corbyn came for Labour, not one of his opponents had a coherent argument to oppose him with"
> 
> Failure to confront Britain’s political ultras has cost us dear | Nick Cohen



They had plenty of arguments, they were just shit and had a basis in discredited ideology rather than reality.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 10, 2016)

In The 2000s, Young People Went Out To Bars And Gigs - You Won't Believe What They Got Up To!!!

Robert Lang: Camden girls of the naughty 00s

Zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 10, 2016)

Torn between putting this in here or the Corbyn thread.
Angela Eagle profile: 'She’s tough – in the best possible sense' 

Starting strongly with halving how long the Eagle was stranded (it'll be a fortnight on Monday)



> After a week of hesitation



Then jumping straight into a baleful warning that slagging her off basically lumps you in with the worst kind of sexist online troll:



> Politics is poisonous for women right now



And throwing in a "look she's an working class lass made good, and GAY" line before glossing quietly over how she got her big break to merely saccharinely opine that:



> Angela became the generally well liked and hard-working MP for Wallasey



Before abandoning all pretense of objectivity by brazenly decrying her detractors:



> Within minutes of the LabourList site reporting that her hat was finally in the ring, one of many bitter commenters posted: “This is not about ‘healing the party’. It’s a deliberate act of sabotage.”



I call it a grand job by long-time staffer Maev Kennedy, 8.5 liberal points out of ten. Only let down because she didn't directly accuse Corbyn of being the antichrist, or break down weeping over Angela's divine countenance.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 10, 2016)

Rob Ray said:


> the Eagle was stranded



I saw that film


----------



## ska invita (Jul 11, 2016)

Funniest thing ive read in the Guardian in weeks Angela Eagle profile: 'She’s tough – in the best possible sense'

No idea who Maev Keenedy is - billed as a "special writer" - she is that for sure


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 11, 2016)

*In Andrea Leadsom the Tories may have another formidable Thatcher*

Or maybe not.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2016)




----------



## billy_bob (Jul 11, 2016)

White's pose in that photo was comically self-important enough already, without this embarrassing juxtaposition.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2016)

leadsom is the thatcher who never was


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2016)

michael shite left looking even more of a wanker? well this is a good day after all


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 11, 2016)

Do you work in the world's coolest office?

Aren't multinational corporations just the coolest thing, like, _ever_?

I mean, if you're one of the tech twats who work in their HQ, of course. If you're a Romanian on the packing floor you can just piss in a fucking coke bottle.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 11, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Do you work in the world's coolest office?
> 
> Aren't multinational corporations just the coolest thing, like, _ever_?
> 
> I mean, if you're one of the tech twats who work in their HQ, of course. If you're a Romanian on the packing floor you can just piss in a fucking coke bottle.


Corporate shills come in all guises these days


> Sarah Marsh is social and community editor for Opinion.


----------



## Sifta (Jul 11, 2016)

In praise of the C-word

" One of my closest friends regularly greets me with “all right, you little cunt” "


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 11, 2016)

Theresa May: all hail our new overlord, and we don't even seem to mean that ironically like Urban 75 did about Leadsom


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 11, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> leadsom is the thatcher who never was


If only Thatcher had been the Thatcher who never was.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Theresa May: all hail our new overlord, and we don't even seem to mean that ironically like Urban 75 did about Leadsom


Have we a picture of Theresa May with someone's head up her arse, which is the position gaby whatserface has adopted in that article


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 11, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Theresa May: all hail our new overlord, and we don't even seem to mean that ironically like Urban 75 did about Leadsom


I actually thought that would be the actual headline. Foiled again.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 11, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> I actually thought that would be the actual headline. Foiled again.




Bastard subs must have got to it before you clicked through


----------



## stavros (Jul 11, 2016)

Failure to confront Britain's ultras has cost us dear - Nick Cohen


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 11, 2016)

stavros said:


> Failure to confront Britain's ultras has cost us dear - Nick Cohen



Don't call me dear you bellend.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 11, 2016)

stavros said:


> Failure to confront Britain's ultras has cost us dear - Nick Cohen



yet again ...he links to supposed Momentun / Corbynite "abuse" etc ....and it turns out to be a highly contested account of a lively Bristol CLP meeting, with many flat opposing the account given - Cohen must be one of the most flagrantly dishonest hacks out there, literally doesn't give a shit about sources etc .


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 12, 2016)

Stop abusing and hating MP's


I can get behind not attacking them with bricks or shooting them, but for the most part they absolutely deserve our scorn


----------



## NoXion (Jul 12, 2016)

Artaxerxes said:


> Stop abusing and hating MP's



May have a point there. Guardian journalists deserve some hate too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2016)

cantsin said:


> yet again ...he links to supposed Momentun / Corbynite "abuse" etc ....and it turns out to be a highly contested account of a lively Bristol CLP meeting, with many flat opposing the account given - Cohen must be one of the most flagrantly dishonest hacks out there, literally doesn't give a shit about sources etc .


No there are lots of other dishonest hacks out there


----------



## ska invita (Jul 13, 2016)

Shameless splash of this EXCLUSIVE
Corbyn 'endorsed bullying by voting against secret ballot'


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jul 13, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Shameless splash of this EXCLUSIVE
> Corbyn 'endorsed bullying by voting against secret ballot'


This NEC member Joanna Baxter is a bit unusual. She has a website where she reports back on all NEC meetings she attends and spends her own money travelling around the country to visit CLP meetings. She is currently trying to raise money to help her in this aim. Her interview on World at One about the recent NEC meeting was done in a tearful voice. I wonder what her motivation is. Can it just be that she is up for re-election to the NEC soon. She gives no clue about her political aims outside of not approving of Corbyn's line at that particular NEC meeting. Now that the media have discovered her will she become a problem for Corbyn?


----------



## cantsin (Jul 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> No there are lots of other dishonest hacks out there



"one of the most..." leaves room for that very reasonable assumption I believe.


Wld still put Cohen right up there though, reminds me of John Rentoul, that slightly wierd, obsessional rigidity mixed in with what seems like flagrant slabs of half truth / deliberate misinterpretation etc


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 13, 2016)

Cohen will go full Rod Liddle one of these days.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 18, 2016)

> *Bernard Jenkin*, the Conservative MP, is speaking now. He acknowledges that the SNP are popular in Scotland.


Impressive reportage.


----------



## binka (Jul 19, 2016)

Yes, Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a bad press, but where's the harm?



> But I wonder if that really is what the British people want? Do they hunger for unbiased political coverage? Do they want politicians treated with respect?
> 
> 
> I am not in the least bit surprised by the coverage of Corbyn. With something like 80% of his parliamentary party against him, would democracy benefit from a failure to reflect that reality?
> ...


----------



## killer b (Jul 19, 2016)

The greenslade article is astounding.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 19, 2016)

He spat at me 









well he might have done if I'd been there


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 19, 2016)

binka said:


> Yes, Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a bad press, but where's the harm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Almost unprecedented levels of self-serving bullshit there.

Slavishly acting as the club newsletter of the Labour right is 'reflecting reality'? And in the very next breath he justifies the same thing with exactly the opposite argument - no need to reflect reality because we obviously aren't influencing anyone anyway. So it's just a bit of harmless fun, is it? You expect us to pay for copies of a newspaper for that?

Negative coverage of Corbyn in the Guardian and Observer _has _influenced my likelihood of reading those papers. Obviously they were full of shite long before then, but I still had a knee-jerk tendency to turn to them rather than other papers. If you wanted a broadsheet that was at least marginally further left than the other broadsheets, what else could you do? Currently, I can barely see any difference in quality between them and the tabloids, and I actively avoid them all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> Almost unprecedented levels of self-serving bullshit there.
> 
> Slavishly acting as the club newsletter of the Labour right is 'reflecting reality'? And in the very next breath he justifies the same thing with exactly the opposite argument - no need to reflect reality because we obviously aren't influencing anyone anyway. So it's just a bit of harmless fun, is it? You expect us to pay for copies of a newspaper for that?
> 
> Negative coverage of Corbyn in the Guardian and Observer _has _influenced my likelihood of reading those papers. Obviously they were full of shite long before then, but I still had a knee-jerk tendency to turn to them rather than other papers. If you wanted a broadsheet that was at least marginally further left than the other broadsheets, what else could you do? Currently, I can barely see any difference in quality between them and the tabloids, and I actively avoid them all.


tbh the only paper i get is the guardian on a saturday, which has a nice telly guide and sufficient paper to line the cat's tray for about 10 days. i used to turn to the telegraph to read barking nonsense i disagreed with, now it comes in the guardian which excelled itself in its hysterical coverage of the leave campaign as wholly populated of stupid racist working class oiks who knew nothing of the finer things in life.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 19, 2016)

I feel like it used to be aimed at the kind of middle-class lefties who drove Citroens with 'Nuclear Power - no thanks!' stickers on the back window, ate a lot of sprouted pulses, and became social workers - who are not above mockery or criticism, but aren't the world's most evil social group either.

Now it seems to be for people who are middle class in the same sense that Kate Middleton's family was described as middle class before the royal wedding, i.e. basically as posh as it's possible to be without having a title.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2016)

so posh you can barely fucking speak is the line I always lol remembering

but yeah, thats just 'fuck you, we are right. Even if we weren't, it's just a game. But ffuck you anyway'

no doubt juxtaposed next to ads for 60 quid kitchen widgets that nobody actually needs


----------



## two sheds (Jul 19, 2016)

That article should become the standard reference for the Guardian - "what do you want unbiased political coverage for?" Astounding that they admit and even try to justify it.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 19, 2016)

killer b said:


> The greenslade article is astounding.


It's been a few years since those words were ever uttered in that order


----------



## killer b (Jul 19, 2016)

Spin the beginning


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2016)

From todays "Snap PMQs verdict"....



> Starting with a question on Orgeave was odd too. *For the public at large, this is an obscure piece of history*, but it is a subject that matters to Labour and union members, and so perhaps this illustrated how the leadership contest is already dominating his thinking.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2016)

brogdale said:


> From todays "Snap PMQs verdict"....
> 
> ​


yeh given the links between orgreave and hillsborough, it is of more than merely historical importance - when you're looking at at best mismanagement in a police force for more than five years... typical guardian wankery


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jul 20, 2016)

killer b said:


> Spin the beginning



Written by the same man who said press bias wasn't really doing any harm: Yes, Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a bad press, but where's the harm?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 22, 2016)

Louis MacNeice said:


> killer b said:
> 
> 
> > Spin the beginning
> ...



Err, that's _kind of the point being made_  



binka said:


> Yes, Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a bad press, but where's the harm?





killer b said:


> The greenslade article is astounding.





DaveCinzano said:


> It's been a few years since those words were ever uttered in that order





killer b said:


> Spin the beginning


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2016)

brogdale said:


> From todays "Snap PMQs verdict"....
> 
> ​


Obscure to the middle classes because our grand campaigning journal has not seen fit to cover one of the glaring domestic injustices of modern times. So that's all right then.


----------



## Sue (Jul 22, 2016)

I think this is mean to be funny...

'Then it was time to slow it down a bit. “We’re going to do some kinder, gentler politics,” he growled. Dozens of lighters were held up into the morning sky. “Sadly Diane Abbott can’t join me for an acoustic set of ‘I’m a hypocrite and I’m OK’ because she is still rubbishing Owen Smithon the Radio 4 Today programme.

“And John McDonnell has checked into rehab after no one turned up to hear him play in the Commons yesterday because he had called the entire parliamentary Labour party a bunch of fucking idiots. So I’m just going to do a solo number of my greatest hit, Just Like a Rolling Stone.”'...

'With the main gig over, Corbyn decided to hang around and play some requests. He was feeling good. Real good. So what if he never got round to playing in front of the millions of old Labour voters who were now flirting with Ukip? It was so much more fun playing large stadiums in front of a few hundred thousand hardcore radicalised middle-class. Who wanted to form a government when you could have your very own social movement, man? I mean parliamentary democracy is, like, so uncool.'



Is this rock star Corbyn's comeback gig – or his farewell tour? | John Crace


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 23, 2016)

Sue said:


> I think this is mean to be funny...
> 
> 'Then it was time to slow it down a bit. “We’re going to do some kinder, gentler politics,” he growled. Dozens of lighters were held up into the morning sky. “Sadly Diane Abbott can’t join me for an acoustic set of ‘I’m a hypocrite and I’m OK’ because she is still rubbishing Owen Smithon the Radio 4 Today programme.
> 
> ...



Crace is another _Guardian_ journo who can't see Corbyn's Parliamentarist social-democratic wood for the trees.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jul 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> so posh you can barely fucking speak is the line I always lol remembering


My girlfriend once described someone as being "so posh he can barely open his own eyes".


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jul 26, 2016)

Still losing loads of money it appears.
Guardian 'set to post £173m loss despite axing 270 jobs


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2016)

good


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 28, 2016)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 28, 2016)

toynbee, the weathervane of wrong. If she points that way, look behind you


----------



## two sheds (Jul 28, 2016)

I'm just hoping she'll give Brown one final chance.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2016)

**


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2016)

Guess what was originally in the white gap in this one?


This



Suggesting that Corbyn timed the courts response today as part of his women hating agenda.

Modified one minute ago - it's now 7.54


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 29, 2016)

Within 2 hours they closed comments, laugh a minute.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 29, 2016)

two sheds said:


> I'm just hoping she'll give Brown one final chance.


He's got FORTY-EIGHT HOURS TO CLOSE THE CASE or else he's OUT THE DOOR FOR GOOD, DAMMIT


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Guess what was originally in the white gap in this one?
> View attachment 90063
> 
> This
> ...


not only that, suggesting the case only came to court because of him


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2016)

hot air baboon said:


>








owen smith: a latter-day cloudseley shovell


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2016)

last i looked scotland was part of the uk  so yer ma can't have been an immigrant 
My partner and I are at breaking point over Brexit


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 1, 2016)

Pokemon Go was released in the UK a fortnight ago. So today we have someone who, despite claiming "I do not go on dates often", has managed to bang out two thousand words about going on a date with someone they met on Pokemon Go.

What's it like to go on a date with someone you met playing Pokémon Go?


----------



## billy_bob (Aug 1, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Pokemon Go was released in the UK a fortnight ago. So today we have someone who, despite claiming "I do not go on dates often", has managed to bang out two thousand words about going on a date with someone they met on Pokemon Go.
> 
> What's it like to go on a date with someone you met playing Pokémon Go?



As far as I can tell, that article has nothing to do with Brexit or why Jeremy Corbyn's shit. _Nothing_. This really is the last straw.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 1, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> As far as I can tell, that article has nothing to do with Brexit or why Jeremy Corbyn's shit. _Nothing_. This really is the last straw.


Panic not, your needs are served elsewhere today:
Give Britons fast-track citizenship, says Germany's Green party


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 2, 2016)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 2, 2016)

Physician, heal thyself


----------



## stavros (Aug 2, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 90261



I don't want to spoil the possibilities of what that could mean by reading the article.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 2, 2016)

The Graun website used to include a very busy talkboard. It got binned some years back because money, but some contributers set up a place to keep it all going.

This thread there started quite recently, its not without the petty sniping common to all such places (except the haven of sanity and love that is U75 ;-) but once it gets going I think there are some pretty good insights.

JUSTtheTalk - WTF really happened at teh Graun? (UK News)


----------



## billy_bob (Aug 2, 2016)

stavros said:


> I don't want to spoil the possibilities of what that could mean by reading the article.



Has Bettridge's Law Been Proven Faulty By Our Latest Stupid Headline?


----------



## emanymton (Aug 3, 2016)

Though this might be an interesting article 

My parents, the Trump voters: a Sanders-supporting son attempts to understand

But then I got to this lone


> He and my mom raised four kids on a factory manager’s salary.


----------



## gosub (Aug 3, 2016)

It’s the new big thing in politics - the old-style public meeting | Steve Richards
"Even in August political meetings are packed. Last week several newspapers published a photo of a long queue of people outside a hall, waiting patiently to be crammed in. Were they waiting to see the Rolling Stones? Had Adele fitted in a few post-Glastonbury gigs? No, they were rolling up to hear Owen Smith, the contender for the Labour leadership."

eta photo found :


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2016)

gosub said:


> It’s the new big thing in politics - the old-style public meeting | Steve Richards
> "Even in August political meetings are packed. Last week several newspapers published a photo of a long queue of people outside a hall, waiting patiently to be crammed in. Were they waiting to see the Rolling Stones? Had Adele fitted in a few post-Glastonbury gigs? No, they were rolling up to hear Owen Smith, the contender for the Labour leadership."
> 
> eta photo found :



They're 2-3 abreast over about 125 metres. That's (generously) about 400 people. What a draw Owen is!


----------



## gosub (Aug 3, 2016)

ViolentPanda said:


> They're 2-3 abreast over about 125 metres. That's (generously) about 400 people. What a draw Owen is!



but it is London  and not raining, thats nearly half the village.  Still at least the Guardian can say it published articles on the high attendance of political rallies


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 3, 2016)

anyone get the Turkcell advert saying "turkey is tougher with its democracy" on the front page?:


----------



## Sifta (Aug 4, 2016)

Have you attended an Owen Smith rally?

"Why do you support Smith?" - Please fill in our form


----------



## billy_bob (Aug 4, 2016)

Sifta said:


> Have you attended an Owen Smith rally?
> 
> "Why do you support Smith?" - Please fill in our form



Classic police 'When did you stop beating your wife?'-style line of enquiry.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 4, 2016)

Seems someone has nicked the name of a local and been using it to post on the Guardian. 
Monkey Dust to Nathan Barley – your most underrated TV shows


----------



## Plumdaff (Aug 4, 2016)

Corbyn and Smith face off in tense Labour leadership hustings

Usual Guardian bias here - there was a small but vocal Smith contingent all sitting together who shouted throughout every Corbyn answer and had a go at a couple of nearby Corbyn supporters. Seeing as they were right next to the reserved media seats it is curious how they were missed...

Maybe they were the Guardian reporting team?


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2016)

What is the point of this article?
Russell Square attack: a horror untold until the small hours


----------



## emanymton (Aug 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What is the point of this article?
> Russell Square attack: a horror untold until the small hours


That the real horror was the lack of Twitter reports?


----------



## sihhi (Aug 5, 2016)

It has let Urban75 poster Paul Atherton and all-round private sector fanatic write an unchallenged puff-piece for a "free school", without mentioning he has done the video PR for that school as explained in his wikipedia entry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What is the point of this article?
> Russell Square attack: a horror untold until the small hours


before the advent of social media the "proper" media never knew anything at all. fact.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What is the point of this article?
> Russell Square attack: a horror untold until the small hours


saved for posterity


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2016)

the real tragedy exposed. A twitter silence, the horror, the horror. Vacuos cunts


----------



## Flavour (Aug 5, 2016)

new lows every day! fantastic


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2016)

Flavour said:


> new lows every day! fantastic


it is becoming increasingly difficult for the guardian to live down to our expectations: but somehow they manage every day


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2016)

Black Lives Matter protest sparks traffic chaos outside Heathrow


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 8, 2016)

I panicked when my phone broke. But now I’ve found an inner serenity


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 8, 2016)

Here's a thing that may or may not be relevant to the continuing decline of the paper that brought us the famous review of "Doris Godunov": I've noticed that here on the continent, it's coming a day late, so that the copy of the paper available for purchase on Saturday last was not the Saturday edition of the Guaridan (stet), but the edition of the previous day, Friday.

All the other English papers (Times, DM) that are available here are here on the day they're published, as far as I can see.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 8, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> I panicked when my phone broke. But now I’ve found an inner serenity


Now you can walk into your local Hot Dog joint and say "make me one with everything".


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 8, 2016)

The old ‘ask a question and then provide the answer that fits your narrative’ switcheroo:



> Would you work on a remote British farm, putting in long days picking fruit and digging up potatoes in the countryside? It is easy to see such work in a romantic light, like something out of the Darling Buds of May. But it is mostly the opposite. Long hours, low pay, dirty conditions and physically demanding work.



Would you pick fruit and veg for very low pay? No? We have a problem | Peter Fleming

No shit Sherlock! But guess what, plenty of us _rural working class_ do just this now (or have done it in the past). It wasn't out of some bucolic romanticism, it was because of economic need, what with the distinct lack of factories and shopping centres located in the middle of the countryside that might provide alternative employment. And wanting better working conditions, shorter hours, more secure contracts, improved wages - these are not the haughty demands of spoiled, cosseted children, but the natural and human desires of people everywhere.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 8, 2016)

First day of the RMT strike on Southern Rail and completely by co-incidence the Guardian decides to publish this piece 


> *The secret life of a trade union employee: I do little but the benefits are incredible*
> I have been a lefty for as long as I have understood about politics and was delighted when I got a job at a trade union, helping out in the membership department. It was a chance for me to join the cause, promote workers’ rights, do my bit to get Labour back in power and eat hummus and pitta bread with intelligent staff who enlighten me with their deeply thought-out political theories.
> 
> The reality is somewhat different. There are too many opinions, too many discussions and not enough decision makers – but I guess that’s socialism for you. Weak management means there is a complete lack of consistency among staff: everyone seems to be working on their own pet project rather than doing anything together as a team. No sooner are ideas implemented than they are cast aside again – often the same day. Our crumbling membership, which sees us lose many members every month, never gets addressed – no wonder striking is at its lowest level since records began. Strong personalities are allowed to get their own way and, quite often, their own working hours.


----------



## mauvais (Aug 8, 2016)

Earlier today, first thing this morning, they were asking why there were no strikes in Britain any more, and I immediately thought, 'because of people like you, you duplicitous shits'.

And then I caught myself and thought, nah, there's not much evidence of their illiberalism going _quite_ that far yet is there.

Duh.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 8, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> First day of the RMT strike on Southern Rail and completely by co-incidence the Guardian decides to publish this piece



Wow, what a nasty and obviously made up piece. The open hostility from the graunid towards unions is more and more obvious.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 8, 2016)

they have always been hostile to strikes. I've seen them toynbee it loads of time. Your grievances are valid but here is why you are wrong to withdraw your labour


----------



## emanymton (Aug 9, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> they have always been hostile to strikes. I've seen them toynbee it loads of time. Your grievances are valid but here is why you are wrong to withdraw your labour




Just another version of this from Mill's on 'On Liberty' 



> An opinion that corn dealers are starvers of the poor, or that private property is robbery, ought to be unmolested when simply circulated through the press, but may justly incur punishment when delivered orally to an excited mob assembled before the house of a corn dealer, or when handed about among the same mob in the form of a placard


----------



## stavros (Aug 10, 2016)

Moonbot goes cold turkey (sic) on eating animal products.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 10, 2016)

stavros said:


> Moonbot goes cold turkey (sic) on eating animal products.


That's a good article, mind


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2016)

Women face abuse at work every day. Don’t look to the left for help | Suzanne Moore

Another "Corbyn is a misogynist" piece by Moore, using actual issues with the poorly-disguised motivation of saying vote Owen Smith. Of course the comments are full of actual misogynist headbangers as well, as you'd expect.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 11, 2016)

> The results suggest that leavers favour slathering Bisto and HP Sauce on their plate of Cathedral City cheese-topped Richmond sausages bought from Iceland, flipping between Sky and ITV News to check their numbers on the Health Lottery (*and with that diet, maybe they need to*


 Fuck off.

Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave - the guardian Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 11, 2016)

theres a real sense of anger from the liberal middle classes over the leave vote isn't their? Couch it as jokey as they like the venom shows through


----------



## stavros (Aug 11, 2016)

Credit to the Graun for giving the boss of Southern Rail the chance to dig his own grave.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 12, 2016)

redsquirrel said:


> First day of the RMT strike on Southern Rail and completely by co-incidence the Guardian decides to publish this piece



thats repulsive, invented bullshit, even by the Grauns standards


----------



## oryx (Aug 13, 2016)

cantsin said:


> thats repulsive, invented bullshit, even by the Grauns standards



It reminds me of some equally repulsive article in The Mail* a few years ago by 'A Public Sector Employee'  who, apparently, spent most of their time pissing about making tea or going on forced equality and diversity courses.

Proof that The Guardian is way past the u-bend.

*there was a free copy at the airport and we had a 7 hour delay, in case you thought I'd bought the repulsive rag!


----------



## scifisam (Aug 13, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Fuck off.
> 
> Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave - the guardian Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave



That article is totally taking the piss out of the poll, though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 13, 2016)

scifisam said:


> That article is totally taking the piss out of the poll, though.


So what?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2016)

cantsin said:


> thats repulsive, invented bullshit, even by the Grauns standards


no mention of spanish practises.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 13, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> no mention of spanish practises.


Sobbing & Knobbing >>>>>


----------



## scifisam (Aug 13, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> So what?


Why do you want someone to fuck off when they're taking the piss out of a shit, classist poll? I mean, by Guardian standards the writer's practically a Communist.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 13, 2016)

scifisam said:


> Why do you want someone to fuck off when they're taking the piss out of a shit, classist poll? I mean, by Guardian standards the writer's practically a Communist.


I've re-read the article, and I'm still seeing the snobbery and loathing in the article. It's joking about the poll, but it's joining in with the classism. 

So, yes, I want the writer to fuck off.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Fuck off.
> 
> Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave - the guardian Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave


Iceland the only regular stockist of viscount biscuits in my area. And HP Sauce is lush.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I've re-read the article, and I'm still seeing the snobbery and loathing in the article. It's joking about the poll, but it's joining in with the classism.
> 
> So, yes, I want the writer to fuck off.


Not good enough


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Iceland the only regular stockist of viscount biscuits in my area. And HP Sauce is lush.


I buy Cathedral City cheddar and I love HP sauce. Why would that give me health problems? Why is it that people only say "slather" when it's something they dislike? I put HP on my food, I don't "slather" it.

Fucking Guardian twat. I'll give them fucking health problems.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Not good enough


Quite right: fucking off's too good for them.


----------



## stavros (Aug 13, 2016)

Good to meet you… Jean Sugarbroad


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 13, 2016)

stavros said:


> Good to meet you… Jean Sugarbroad


"...small quirky cafe..."


----------



## gosub (Aug 14, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Fuck off.
> 
> Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave - the guardian Love HP Sauce, ITV News and shopping at Iceland? You probably voted leave



They have had it in for HP sauce for a while Brown sauce sales are falling: has Britain finally come to its senses?

Don't mind HP once in a while, do like ITV news, make my own gravy, tend to buy Wyke farms cheddar cos my mum knows the family, Richmond sausages are shit (though Irish pork products usually superior to UK ones), Samsung kicks Apples arse,  baggage restrictions make shopping in Iceland impractical, .


----------



## rioted (Aug 14, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Iceland the only regular stockist of viscount biscuits in my area. And HP Sauce is lush.


HP is produced in the EU and no longer in it's country of origin. Another victory for globalisation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 14, 2016)

rioted said:


> HP is produced in the EU and no longer in it's country of origin. Another victory for globalisation.


Yeh. We are in the EU. Where in the EU is it produced?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 14, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> I buy Cathedral City cheddar and I love HP sauce. Why would that give me health problems? Why is it that people only say "slather" when it's something they dislike? I put HP on my food, I don't "slather" it.
> 
> Fucking Guardian twat. I'll give them fucking health problems.


you know the middle class liberals only ever drizzle.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 14, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> you know the middle class liberals only ever drizzle.


Bladder issues no doubt


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 14, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> Iceland the only regular stockist of viscount biscuits in my area. And HP Sauce is lush.


Well quite. People who don't love HP Sauce will be second against the wall, come the revolution.  Estate and lettings agents are still first.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 14, 2016)

Fantastic takedown of this article



> Blythman is aware that Mexican farmers may be very pleased with the current demand for their product. But she says that: “It’s a moot point whether the Mexicans who actually grow these on-trend fruits eventually harvest their fair share of the economic benefits.”* But surely it’s the most important point. An argument that our love of avocados is actually hurting the Mexican people should deal centrally with the question of whether our love of avocados is actually hurting the Mexican people.*Instead, Blythman simply recommends that we switch to cabbage, or kale, because it’s “cultivated easily in the UK.” Blythman does not stop to ponder how Mexican farmers might feel everyone stopped buying their products and substituted British kale.
> 
> ....
> 
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2016)

the guardian reveals a terrible mistake was made on 22/11/1963


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2016)

If it was really a _Graun_ headline it would more likely be about JKF


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 15, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> If it was really a _Graun_ headline it would more likely be about JKF


it really is a guardian headline


----------



## gosub (Aug 16, 2016)

'Zombie knife' seller urges shoppers to buy before ban takes effect

couldn't have done more to below the line market the things if it wanted to


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 16, 2016)

i think the question we should be asking is 'has the guardian ever been anything other than shit?'


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 17, 2016)

Eh?

'Mermaiding': summer 2016's fashion inspiration


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Eh?
> 
> 'Mermaiding': summer 2016's fashion inspiration





'our silver-tailed friends'? everyonce, surely, knows that mermaids are our greatest maritime foes, above even the hateful blobfish farmerbarleymow


----------



## bi0boy (Aug 18, 2016)

This Olympics hysteria shows that Britain has turned Soviet


----------



## J Ed (Aug 18, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> This Olympics hysteria shows that Britain has turned Soviet



Looks like it was produced by a random think piece generator


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 18, 2016)

He was just annoyed cos the news was late. Twat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> This Olympics hysteria shows that Britain has turned Soviet


Ad on bus stop at the angel displayed the medal table. In the auld Soviet days it would have been broadcast from loudspeakers in the streets


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 19, 2016)

Am i being unreasonable to be annoyed at all those posts by newspapers like the indy etc on stuff like terrorism etc which say stuff like 'this happened but you dont care about it'? It makes me a lot less likely to read it if i feel emotionally blackmailed.


----------



## bi0boy (Aug 21, 2016)

Leavers should be ashamed of the harm yet to come from Brexit


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 21, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> Am i being unreasonable...



Oi!

MumsNet >>>>>


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 21, 2016)

the last paragraph is reasonable. The tash however renders his opinions invalid


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2016)

crimea full of champagne socialists i see


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 28, 2016)

> There’s a sense, therefore, that we are approaching another “end of history” moment – but with a difference. In his famous 1989 article, the political scientist Francis Fukuyama argued that the collapse of the Soviet empire meant the end of the great ideological battle between east and west and the “universalisation of western liberal democracy as the final form of human government”. This was a bold, but not implausible, claim at the time. What Fukuyama could not have known is that a new challenge to liberal democracy would eventually materialise, and that its primary roots would lie not in ideology but in bioscience and information technology.



From Forget ideology, liberal democracy’s newest threats come from technology and bioscience - the headline is in itself something of an eyebrow-raiser, given recent trends.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 30, 2016)

*Soon the wealthy will wipe clean every fun, tatty area – and not just in London*


that headline


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 31, 2016)

MIND BLOWN

London's elite 'pushed out of exclusive postcodes by super rich'

(((London's elite))) (((Old money)))


----------



## scifisam (Aug 31, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> MIND BLOWN
> 
> London's elite 'pushed out of exclusive postcodes by super rich'
> 
> (((London's elite))) (((Old money)))


That's actually a pretty good article, less about sympathy for the rich and more about the effect on the non-rich.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 1, 2016)




----------



## emanymton (Sep 2, 2016)

So, junior doctors, what exactly is it you’re striking for? | Deborah Orr

They really do struggle with the concept of democracy don't they.



> Nor does the BMA’s own position quite make sense. The strikes earlier in the year resulted in a renegotiation and new contract for junior doctors, which the BMA committee declared satisfactory. Yes, it was rejected by members.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 2, 2016)

emanymton said:


> So, junior doctors, what exactly is it you’re striking for? | Deborah Orr
> 
> They really do struggle with the concept of democracy don't they.



I actually read the entire article. Fucking gross. She is obviously against the strike, and she should say so rather than just concern trolling the strikers while trying to keep up the pretense of being on their side unlike a never quite defined 'public' which is apparently too thick to understand.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 5, 2016)

Do they use usually use The Leader next to responses of accusations of execution squads?



> The leader also responded to the suggestion from Labour MP Frank Field that MPs felt they were facing an “execution squad” from Corbyn supporters who wanted to deselect politicians ahead of a general election.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 5, 2016)

J Ed said:


> I actually read the entire article. Fucking gross. She is obviously against the strike, and she should say so rather than just concern trolling the strikers while trying to keep up the pretense of being on their side unlike a never quite defined 'public' which is apparently too thick to understand.


She sent her shit kids to private school. They'll be transformed into cultural commentators.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 7, 2016)

I don't like their tone:
10 tips for being a better parent: a headteacher writes


----------



## Buckaroo (Sep 7, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> She sent her shit kids to private school. They'll be transformed into cultural commentators.



Shit kids? Transformed into shit cultural commentators about shit maybe...


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2016)

Why the head was right to send home 50 pupils for wearing the wrong uniform | Sheryl Garratt


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I don't like their tone:
> 10 tips for being a better parent: a headteacher writes




Most of those seem fairly reasonable tbh, a bit teaching your grandma to suck eggs but there are plenty of shite parents out there.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 8, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> Why the head was right to send home 50 pupils for wearing the wrong uniform | Sheryl Garratt



Wonderful subhead in that article:



> Schools are badly funded and teachers lack resources. So what hope is there other than that a strict dress code will help raise standards?



Schools and teachers don't need money, the kids just need to be dressed proper and exam results will soar.


----------



## killer b (Sep 8, 2016)

I don't think the article's that bad tbh - has anyone read it? She's making the point that it's a systemic problem (not enough cash/resources, awful policy) rather than individual failings by multiple headteachers. Which it is.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2016)

I frequenyly hear that the writers of these articles don't have any control of what the title is going to be. sounds to me like they might have put a clickbait title on what was actually a reasonable article in that case (ive not read it)


----------



## killer b (Sep 8, 2016)

The subhead is a reasonably accurate summary of the article, tbf.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 8, 2016)

i quoted it before reading the article and then though "oh shit the author was being ironic with that subhead" so I checked the article 

but she wasn't.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 8, 2016)

killer b said:


> I don't think the article's that bad tbh - has anyone read it? She's making the point that it's a systemic problem (not enough cash/resources, awful policy) rather than individual failings by multiple headteachers. Which it is.



yes that's a fair enough point


----------



## belboid (Sep 8, 2016)

killer b said:


> I don't think the article's that bad tbh - has anyone read it? She's making the point that it's a systemic problem (not enough cash/resources, awful policy) rather than individual failings by multiple headteachers. Which it is.


Come on, it's all over the shop. Mentions systemic failures, but then praises excessively strict uniform policy, even whilst pointing out they don't work! It's a shambles, basically going 'bless, don't be too harsh, they are trying' in that useless patronising tone the guardian is so practised at.


----------



## killer b (Sep 8, 2016)

Strict uniform policies do work though (depending on what you're trying to achieve...) - it isn't a brilliant article, but I think the point she's trying to make is sound. TBF the headteacher of that school is a wanker, but the entire weight of government policy on education is pretty much designed to make it a job that's untenable for non-wankers, so it's not really surprising.


----------



## 19force8 (Sep 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I don't like their tone:
> 10 tips for being a better parent: a headteacher writes


Hilarious on so many levels:



> *Please show your children you care about them.* I’m not talking about “I love you” all over the place. When your 11-year-old gets into the car after school, please get off your phone – she wants to tell you about her day.


I wouldn't have shamed my 11 year olds by picking them up from school.

I don't know if it's different with girls, but my boys could have given masterclasses in resisting interrogation. We had to institute regular bag searches to make sure we didn't miss letters from the school.

Do you think the Guardian might accept an article:

*10 tips for being a better headteacher: a parent writes*

1 Stop bloody testing
2 Take a cut in pay
3 Hire more teachers
4 Ditch the National Curriculum
etc.


----------



## Sherman Tank (Sep 9, 2016)

19force8 said:


> *10 tips for being a better headteacher: a parent writes*
> 
> 1 Stop bloody testing
> 2 Take a cut in pay
> ...



Would you take a cut in pay?
How do you think a head could ditch the national curriculum? Are you in favour of academies?
Given that teacher pay and conditions are set nationally and average salaries for head teachers how many teachers do you think could be hired if a head cut their own pay by an eighth, a quarter, a half?

I suspect most heads would love to reduce testing


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 9, 2016)

Outside London a head teacher on the max (£107,000) could reduce their salary to £53,000 (well within, but near the bottom of their existing pay range and almost twice the national median income for full time employees of £27,000) and employ two classroom teachers at the max of the main pay range (£37,871).

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 9, 2016)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Outside London a head teacher on the max (£107,000) could reduce their salary to £53,000 (well within, but near the bottom of their existing pay range and almost twice the national median income for full time employees of £27,000) and employ two classroom teachers at the max of the main pay range (£37,871).
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice



Your calculations are a bit off there - if they saved £54k they'd have enough for one with change. They'd be well short of what would be needed for 2 at that pay rate though.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 9, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Your calculations are a bit off there - if they saved £54k they'd have enough for one with change. They'd be well short of what would be needed for 2 at that pay rate though.



Quite right. That's what comes of posting when you've just got up with a bit of a hangover. Apologies all round.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 9, 2016)

Alternatively the head in my example could take a pay cut to a little under £70,000 (more than three times the median full time income) and get one extra teacher on the max of the main pay range. 

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. Monkeygrinder's Organ I hope my maths is a bit better this time.


----------



## killer b (Sep 10, 2016)

I guess there's occasionally some amusing side effects to having cut your editorial staff to the bone. 



> *Chuka Umunna and fellow Tories attack Fox over 'lazy' accusations*




Chuka Umunna and fellow Tories attack Fox over 'lazy' accusations


----------



## mauvais (Sep 10, 2016)

Took me a moment, that one.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2016)

> Richard Reed, co-founder of the British success story Innocent Drinks



Not even bothering today are they?


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 10, 2016)

killer b said:


> I guess there's occasionally some amusing side effects to having cut your editorial staff to the bone.
> 
> Chuka Umunna and fellow Tories attack Fox over 'lazy' accusations


Saw that on fb and it made me smile. But yeah, fucking poor editorial control.


----------



## belboid (Sep 10, 2016)

Or perfectly deliberate, slipped in by a corbynista sub


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2016)

All their subs are the unpaid intern offspring of senior journos/editors on the paper so yes, maybe getting back at the parents.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 10, 2016)

Are zero-hours contracts really worse than ‘jobs for life’? | Deborah Orr


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Are zero-hours contracts really worse than ‘jobs for life’? | Deborah Orr


give the nefandous deborah orr a zero hours contract and see her view change.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 10, 2016)

...


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Are zero-hours contracts really worse than ‘jobs for life’? | Deborah Orr



made it this far:


> passionately want social justice _and_ want to carry on teaching a few yoga classes, doing up bits of furniture and selling them on the internet, running a few food stalls at a few festivals, sleeping in with the kids when they get an Airbnb client, slowly working through a correspondence course and keeping it all going with a zero-hours contract.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2016)

fucking clueless


----------



## brogdale (Sep 10, 2016)




----------



## treelover (Sep 10, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> made it this far:



I was hoping it was satire, appalling.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2016)

treelover said:


> I was hoping it was satire, appalling.


Nothing in the guardian is satire.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 10, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Are zero-hours contracts really worse than ‘jobs for life’? | Deborah Orr


Just saw that. Orr really is a cunt, hopefully she'll have a fatal accident.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 10, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> fucking clueless



Is it actually genuine cluelessness or is it either 1) deliberate narrative selling 2) written offensively in a deliberate way to get hateclicks?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Is it actually genuine cluelessness or is it either 1) deliberate narrative selling 2) written offensively in a deliberate way to get hateclicks?


do wonder how often they are trolling the readership, but that zietgeist buzzword bingo was where I had to switch off, like treelover said it sounds like a pisstake


----------



## scifisam (Sep 10, 2016)

I hope the Guardian have been stealthily deleting and reordering comments, because otherwise there are an awful lot of people that agree with this horrendous bullshit.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 10, 2016)

Oh, one really petty one from the other day.

They ran an article on how boring Salford shopping centre The Lowry Outlet is changing its name to Shite Shops Manchester or something, despite obviously not being in Manchester. Cue talking heads on how stupid can you be to not know what city you're in etc.

Then they headed it with a photo of the wrong place anyway, the gallery next door.

Sadly fixed now because I took the piss.


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 11, 2016)

I proper LOL'd at that article. Utterly dire.

How absolutely lacking in self-awareness do you have to be to write shite like that?


----------



## Nylock (Sep 11, 2016)

scifisam said:


> I hope the Guardian have been stealthily deleting and reordering comments, because otherwise there are an awful lot of people that agree with this horrendous bullshit.


I read the comments section tonight and saw little in the way of agreement but plenty in the way of outraged incredulity.


----------



## Nylock (Sep 11, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> give the nefandous deborah orr a zero hours contract and see her view change.


Yeh, a ZHC digging the trans siberian canal.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2016)

Nylock said:


> Yeh, a ZHC digging the trans siberian canal.


I like your thinking


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 11, 2016)

How many people did Orr speak to who had these idyllic zero hours contracts? 
Zero is my guess, though perhaps she did speak to just one: "someone who passionately want social justice _and_ wants to carry on teaching a few yoga classes, doing up bits of furniture and selling them on the internet, running a few food stalls at a few festivals, sleeping in with the kids when they get an Airbnb client, slowly working through a correspondence course and keeping it all going with a zero-hours contract."
Probs her yoga teacher. Who probably has a private income to supplement all that. Someone rich who thinks they are flying by the seat of their pants being involved in such a risky business.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 11, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> How many people did Orr speak to who had these idyllic zero hours contracts?
> Zero is my guess, though perhaps she did speak to just one: "someone who passionately want social justice _and_ wants to carry on teaching a few yoga classes, doing up bits of furniture and selling them on the internet, running a few food stalls at a few festivals, sleeping in with the kids when they get an Airbnb client, slowly working through a correspondence course and keeping it all going with a zero-hours contract."
> Probs her yoga teacher. Who probably has a private income to supplement all that. Someone rich who thinks they are flying by the seat of their pants being involved in such a risky business.


Every line in the article seems to be designed to drive me into a mouth-frothing rage, so haven't actually managed to read it all. But I think this is the closest she gets considering the actual views of people on 0 hours contracts,  'two thirds of people on zero-hours contracts say they don’t want more hours than they have already'. Which is not the fucking point. The question should be 'would you like your current working hours to be a guaranteed minum each week'.


----------



## stavros (Sep 12, 2016)

The prime minister wants to end the ban on new grammar schools. Quite right too.


----------



## gosub (Sep 13, 2016)

Le Creuset starts selling on QVC. Is it going to pot?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2016)

stavros said:


> The prime minister wants to end the ban on new grammar schools. Quite right too.


By the chairman of the National Grammar School Association. But you know, it could have gone either way.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 15, 2016)

Prince Charles left shaken after car collides with deer


----------



## emanymton (Sep 15, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> Prince Charles left shaken after car collides with deer


My first thought was how's the deer. I clicked the link and the actually say the condition of the deer is unknown.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2016)

emanymton said:


> My first thought was how's the deer. I clicked the link and the actually say the condition of the deer is unknown.


Brave republican deer - we thank you for your sacrifice.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 15, 2016)

Tomorrow's Express:

DID DEER OR INDEED DOE DO DI AND DODI DEATH?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Brave republican deer - we thank you for your sacrifice.


CERVINE JIHAD


----------



## mauvais (Sep 16, 2016)

From Private Eye:



> GLOATING galore at the Guardian, which is claiming the credit for forcing Sports Direct to mend its Dickensian ways.
> 
> Shome mishtake? The Guardian did its big undercover hit on Sports Direct’s work practices last December. But back in November 2014, Ed Miliband had named Sports Direct and said it should stop using zero-hours contracts. In April 2015, Channel 4’s Dispatches exposed SD’s harsh working conditions, achieving a two-year ratings high. And in September 2015 the Unite union held protests at 40 Sports Direct locations.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 16, 2016)

mauvais said:


> From Private Eye:



They were all beaten by the Morning Star, which carried this story on July 30th, 2013.



As for this this brave new idea of a "work correspondent" - hope they get someone a tad less boss centric than their old industrial editor (now deputy business and consumer editor) Dan Milmo - former director general of the CBI.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 16, 2016)

Rob Ray said:


> Dan Milmo - former director general of the CBI.


Don't think that's correct - not sure exactly what you've linked to, but it has two names in it.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 16, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Don't think that's correct - not sure exactly what you've linked to, but it has two names in it.



Ah yeah you're right, skimmed and didn't notice the other name. Looks like a bio error.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 16, 2016)

Rob Ray said:


> They were all beaten by the Morning Star, which carried this story on July 30th, 2013.
> 
> View attachment 92618
> 
> As for this this brave new idea of a "work correspondent" - hope they get someone a tad less boss centric than their old industrial editor (now deputy business and consumer editor) Dan Milmo - former director general of the CBI.


Also used to be eton and Oxbridge educated seamus Milne I believe.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 16, 2016)




----------



## emanymton (Sep 16, 2016)

brogdale said:


>


Fuck of somewhere else then you cunt.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 16, 2016)

mauvais said:


> From Private Eye:


What are employment rights like at private eye, I wonder.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 16, 2016)

brogdale said:


>


And she turned to me and said, _I'm not your wife, sir, and your ticket says you should have got off this train at Brussels_.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2016)

I thought pantsdown was dead


----------



## 19force8 (Sep 16, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought pantsdown was dead


Hat poisoning, possibly?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 17, 2016)

‘He wasn’t terribly charismatic’: Bernie Sanders leads a civil rights protest in 1962


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 19, 2016)

Desperate last minute plug for a turd on a stick: Owen Smith: Labour leadership more crucial than my NI peace role

No comments strangely.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 19, 2016)

> Halliwell, who visited sex workers in Swindon, became besotted with Godden, who had a history of drug abuse and petty criminality. He picked her up from a nightclub in Swindon in January 2003, had sex with her, strangled her and buried her body in a field in Gloucestershire.



Beyond a joke now.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 19, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Desperate last minute plug for a turd on a stick: Owen Smith: Labour leadership more crucial than my NI peace role
> 
> No comments strangely.



A headline which invites the answer: Owen, literally _everything _is more crucial than _any _of your roles.


----------



## magneze (Sep 20, 2016)

Get serious, Labour rebels, and deal with the Brexit catastrophe

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...trophe?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

You can play labour leadership brexit buzzword bingo with this one.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 20, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Beyond a joke now.



I might have missed something sorry, whats wrong with that para


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 20, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> I might have missed something sorry, whats wrong with that para



Stating the murder victim had a 'history of drug use and petty criminality' I assume.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 20, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Stating the murder victim had a 'history of drug use and petty criminality' I assume.



Oh ok, I read that wrongly and thought they said the killer had that history


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 20, 2016)

If a drug lord didn’t provide for his hippos after death, what hope for our dogs? | Michele Hanson

Wtf


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 20, 2016)

frogwoman said:


> If a drug lord didn’t provide for his hippos after death, what hope for our dogs? | Michele Hanson
> 
> Wtf


By "after his death" they mean "after his life was extinguished in a hail of bullets"


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 20, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> By "after his death" they mean "after his life was extinguished in a hail of bullets"



That article is just wtf on so many levels


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 20, 2016)

Corbyn victory? It’s a strangely liberating feeling | Barbara Ellen

See, the issue here is that while I'm sure lots of people would love it if Barbara Ellen fucked off, from experience of others it just means they write endless pieces on "How I didn't leave the Left, the Left left me, P.S. stop calling me a Tory"


----------



## infide1castr0 (Sep 21, 2016)

With the Guardian going downhill - as it has been for some time - what reliable news sources are you guys using?  Do you think journalism is dead so they say?  What magazines/newspapers/websites are keeping the interest of the public in mind with unbiased political coverage?  Furthermore, which ones are London based?


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 21, 2016)

Am I a socialist? You asked Google – here’s the answer

Apparently the answer is "I don't know what socialism is either, all my Guardianista chums think it implies Labour-right, but I've been told to write 1,500 words on it."


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 21, 2016)

Kids cause a bit of a ruckus. No injuries reported. Police make no arrests. HOLD THE FRONT PAGE! START COMMISSIONING COLUMNISTS!

Up to 100 teenagers involved in Manchester brawl


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 21, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Kids cause a bit of a ruckus. No injuries reported. Police make no arrests. HOLD THE FRONT PAGE! START COMMISSIONING COLUMNISTS!
> 
> Up to 100 teenagers involved in Manchester brawl





DaveCinzano said:


> Kids cause a bit of a ruckus. No injuries reported. Police make no arrests. HOLD THE FRONT PAGE! START COMMISSIONING COLUMNISTS!
> 
> Up to 100 teenagers involved in Manchester brawl


There was a hundred kid brawl in Erith this week and there were 7 arrests and 2 people were hospitalised. Where was The Guardian, eh?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 24, 2016)

Scrabble yn Gymraeg: the board game no one wants to buy

AKA a single branch of a half-a-billion turnover European shop chain has five unsold copies of the same thing on its shelf.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 26, 2016)

This Graun writer tries an Ed Balls/Strictly angle and fails miserably.
Like Ed Balls, Jeremy Corbyn is struggling to impress the judges


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2016)

nino_savatte said:


> This Graun writer tries an Ed Balls/Strictly angle and fails miserably.
> Like Ed Balls, Jeremy Corbyn is struggling to impress the judges





> political pundits assume


they've assumed a lot recently thats turned out to be bullshit.

this 'May could do a snap election' thing. I was under the impression five year fixed term meant five year fixed term except if she can get two thirds of the house onside for a snap election, and the liklihood of this is slim to none? Confused now.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 26, 2016)

I finally own my first house – so why do I have buyer’s remorse? | Stuart Heritage


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 26, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> I finally own my first house – so why do I have buyer’s remorse? | Stuart Heritage


I'm pretty sure I caught him on _Woman's Hour_ the other day, discussing the "sexual politics of who gets to choose which box sets to watch"


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 4, 2016)

Why the repeated insistence in the report that this modern day lucy parsons was unemployed?


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 4, 2016)

In the vice-presidential debate, Mike Pence has a problem: Donald Trump | Jamie Weinstein



> Whatever happens, the takeaway from the debate will be that both vice-presidential contenders, whatever their flaws, are far superior options than their presidential counterparts.



Pence has hitched himself to and is trying to be the acceptable face of donald trumps campaign. Trump has openly mocked him on many occasions, and i dont understand why pence is doing this - presumably to further his career. Tim Kaine is a right libertarian afaik. I dont see how these two are 'superior' at all!


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 5, 2016)

Another anti-democratic liberal screed here. This stuff is all around at the moment and really deserves it's own thread but I don't have time to start one today.



> Plato and Aristotle get a bad rap these days for their rejection of democracy. But the substance of their objections were spot-on, and not just because they saw that majority opinion is not the same as wisdom.





> To say democracy is about trusting the people is therefore simplistic in two ways. First, for democracy to work it requires the people to trust those they elect to make decisions. Demanding that politicians instead trust the people to tell them exactly what is best turns this on its head, undermining one of actual democracies’ greatest strengths.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2016)

Sir Cliff Richard starts legal action against BBC and South Yorkshire police


----------



## NoXion (Oct 7, 2016)

There's a joke about about loss of short-term memory in there somewhere.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 16, 2016)

A bit...odd:

Colombia: Farc's female fighters, then and now – in pictures


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Oct 16, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> A bit...odd:
> 
> Colombia: Farc's female fighters, then and now – in pictures



_You won't BELIEVE what she looks like now!_


----------



## J Ed (Oct 16, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> A bit...odd:
> 
> Colombia: Farc's female fighters, then and now – in pictures



From icky guerrilla to HOTTIE, dear Guardian reader, you and your mouse clicking can make the difference!


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 16, 2016)

It's pretty fucking disgraceful actually. Complaints should be made.


----------



## eoin_k (Oct 24, 2016)

Prepare for the next recession – while you can

Here is a nice Guardian article by a fellow of the Hoover Institution and former advisor to the Bush administration on why governments should slash public spending, cut taxes, and dismantle any remaining employment protection.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 24, 2016)

I noticed that the revelation of the identity of someone who recently tried to bomb a London tube station was in a tiny sidebar not even near the top of the page. I had my suspicions about why that might be but just thought I'd check it out. Yep, he's white.

Obviously it's not just them failing to be as indignant as if the man had been browner of skin and Muslim. But it's noticeable when the guardian even fails to find the moral high ground on the classic liberal issues.


----------



## eoin_k (Oct 25, 2016)

Britain’s Poles: hard work, Yorkshire accents and life post-Brexit vote



> In July 2006, the respected Polish newspaper Polityka estimated that 1 million Poles had moved to the UK.It was this last figure that prompted the Guardian to produce a special edition welcoming what we called a “benign invasion” of *eager and biddable *Poles to our rainy island.



Am I missing out on a layer of irony here?


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 28, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Britain’s Poles: hard work, Yorkshire accents and life post-Brexit vote
> 
> 
> 
> Am I missing out on a layer of irony here?


Doesn't look like it. Perhaps the article was just written by someone who has Polish household staff (nanny, cleaners, maids etc) so that's how they think of them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2016)

eoin_k said:


> Britain’s Poles: hard work, Yorkshire accents and life post-Brexit vote
> 
> 
> 
> Am I missing out on a layer of irony here?


no, the guardian likes biddable domesticks.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> I noticed that the revelation of the identity of someone who recently tried to bomb a London tube station was in a tiny sidebar not even near the top of the page. I had my suspicions about why that might be but just thought I'd check it out. Yep, he's white.
> 
> Obviously it's not just them failing to be as indignant as if the man had been browner of skin and Muslim. But it's noticeable when the guardian even fails to find the moral high ground on the classic liberal issues.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 1, 2016)

Why does the US vote for president on Tuesdays?

About time someone started answering the important questions in this election.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 1, 2016)

Could your kitchen appliances turn against you?

The answer, durr, is no, obviously not, unless you're a cunt. What the fuck is a 'smart kettle'?

More importantly, would it be hard to beat a journalist unconscious with one? I'm not advocating that anyone do so, but it's important to try to gauge how dangerous they are.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 2, 2016)

Time to hail Hillary – and face down the testosterone left | Van Badham


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2016)

3 paragraphs.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 3 paragraphs.


Wrong

Location

Posting?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2016)

no I just mean thats how many paragraphs I managed. By the numbers shite


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 2, 2016)

*Young, British and living in Europe – Brexit has turned our lives upside down*

Won't somebody, please, think of the gap yahs...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 3 paragraphs.


Are you were referring to that meaty piece from Owen Jones yesterday? The one with the headline that clumsily suggested that the class war has ended.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> *Young, British and living in Europe – Brexit has turned our lives upside down*
> 
> Won't somebody, please, think of the gap yahs...


not if they write guff like that


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Nov 2, 2016)

One can say the guardian was getting bad when I stopped buying it about 10 years ago reading through this thread the guardian has gotten even worse since then and I see no reason to buy it again wouldnt even shoplift it now though on a brighter note I see the circulation of the sun has dropped below 2 million


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 2, 2016)

SikhWarrioR said:


> One can say the guardian was getting bad when I stopped buying it about 10 years ago reading through this thread the guardian has gotten even worse since then and I see no reason to buy it again wouldnt even shoplift it now though on a brighter note I see the circulation of the sun has dropped below 2 million



There's so much tits and racism online these days...


----------



## Buckaroo (Nov 6, 2016)

It’s not enough to moan about the new right – resist it | Nick Cohen


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2016)

I like how he declares godwins doesn't count right at the start so he can give his 'its nazi germany' hyperbole


----------



## belboid (Nov 7, 2016)

Eddie Redmayne: ‘I loved Harry Potter, so I don’t want to screw up’

Averagely boring article, but, oh, what a URL


----------



## killer b (Nov 8, 2016)

Not sure where else this should go, but as the graun is the launchpad for this magnificent piece of self-pwnage I guess here. Read the replies if it isn't obvious...


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 9, 2016)

This honestly might be a new low - if such a thing is possible:

Now that Trump is in charge, please give us money


----------



## Zabo (Nov 9, 2016)

billy_bob said:


> This honestly might be a new low - if such a thing is possible:
> 
> Now that Trump is in charge, please give us money



Was thinking the very same thing. 

They vilified Corbyn
They got Brexit wrong
They got the US election wrong
They act as a platform for Blairism neoliberal politics 

But most of all they do not give a toss about their readers.

They should rename it "The Troll".

Fuck 'em.


----------



## Rob Ray (Nov 9, 2016)

> *Because the Guardian is not beholden* to profit-seeking shareholders or a billionaire owner, we can pursue stories without fear of where they might take us, free from commercial and political influence. But these are difficult times for independent media organisations, *with advertising revenues across the industry falling*


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 9, 2016)

Rob Ray said:


>



What they mean is only _nice _organisations prop them up financially for less-than-altruistic reasons. It really sets them apart.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 10, 2016)

Misogyny won the US election – let’s stop indulging angry white men | Hadley Freeman

'If only I asked them to check their privilege more...'


----------



## gosub (Nov 11, 2016)

does every article now come with a begging request at the bottom?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 11, 2016)

gosub said:


> does every article now come with a begging request at the bottom?



Like a dog that shits on your carpet then looks up at you as if expecting a treat for its troubles.


----------



## gosub (Nov 11, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Like a dog that shits on your carpet then looks up at you as if expecting a treat for its troubles.


Ad blocker should hurry up and come up with a block, I'd pay for that


----------



## J Ed (Nov 11, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Like a dog that shits on your carpet then looks up at you as if expecting a treat for its troubles.



An insult to dopey dogs


----------



## fishfinger (Nov 11, 2016)

gosub said:


> Ad blocker should hurry up and come up with a block, I'd pay for that


uBlock Origin will block it


----------



## gosub (Nov 11, 2016)

fishfinger said:


> uBlock Origin will block it


already use it, doesn't for me.

eta  Ahh the pipette thing...  Ta for that.


----------



## JimW (Nov 11, 2016)

Another workaround is just don't visit their site.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 11, 2016)

gosub said:


> does every article now come with a begging request at the bottom?


They will for the foreseeable. Miserable about Trump? Sick of the US media? We're what you need! only we could do with some cash


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 11, 2016)

Unless they've started doing home deliveries of drugs, I can't think of a single way paying the Guardian could make us feel better about Trump.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2016)

Enjoyably ranty review of a wanky London 'clean eating' restaurant:



> It is clearly an absolute smash, but I pray I never have to eat here again.





> Beautiful restaurant, lovely staff, horrible, bullshit food.





> Do I think slender beauty comes from necking “adaptogenic lattes” of reishi, chaga, maca, whateva? I do not.





> Our bill, with the cheapest wine and one (good) cocktail each, is £120 for two. Those nachos alone are 12 quid.





> Oh, and I have a “Farmaceutical syringe shot” – an actual syringe filled with a thimbleful of, among other things, gotu kola and garcinia – for five quid. Might also feature sucka.





> “Eat like me and look like me” is the goddesses of clean-eating’s message, omitting to mention good genes, loads of money and bags of privilege.





> “Our offer is founded on… learning to listen to our inner selves,” waffles the Farmacy website. Here’s what my inner self is saying: “Parp!”



Farmacy, London W2: ‘I pray I never eat here again’ – restaurant review

ETA:

In case you were in two minds about what the reviewer thought, the URL is:


```
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/nov/11/farmacy-london-w2-horrible-bullshit-food-restaurant-review
```


----------



## J Ed (Nov 11, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Enjoyably ranty review of a wanky London 'clean eating' restaurant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After reading first few words of the article I know that I don't care about the restaurant, the reviewer is a cunt


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2016)

Tough crowd


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 12, 2016)

Peak Guardian:
Why I smoked my son’s drugs


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2016)

so a thief and a hypocrite speaks. fluff


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 12, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Enjoyably ranty review of a wanky London 'clean eating' restaurant:
> 
> ETA:
> 
> ...



At least they slated the horrible-sounding place.

But the fact that they think their readership needs it reviewed in the first place is what we should be focusing on here. Surely Gwnyth Paltrow doesn't have enough newspaper-buying friends to constitute a demographic?


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 12, 2016)

‘Hillary Clinton didn’t fail us. We failed her’


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2016)

Note also, they put the headline in quotes as if to suggest that it's not the opinion of the author, merely reported speech - despite the fact that she says exactly that in the piece and no one else is quoted with those words. As if even they know how ridiculous and transparently desperate this piece - and the many many other similar pieces they have ran this week - will appear to all but the already clintonfied.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 12, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> ‘Hillary Clinton didn’t fail us. We failed her’


*SALUTES*

Pieces like this ought to be rewarded with Distinguished Grauniad Cross medals. They should inspire NONE MORE GRAUNIAD forearm tattoos. They need to be commemorated with sombre stone memorials on every viilage green and in every town square across the length and breadth of the country.

WE CAME - WE GRAUN - WE QUIETLY WEPT TEARS OF RAGE AND TUTTED A LOT


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 12, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> ‘Hillary Clinton didn’t fail us. We failed her’


I saw that, revolting.


----------



## belboid (Nov 12, 2016)

I couldn't bring myself to go beyond the headline


----------



## gosub (Nov 12, 2016)

I think the likes of Summer Zervos may be being failed more than Mrs Clinton




To me, how this develops will speak volumes about how a Sista in trouble is handled.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 14, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Peak Guardian:
> Why I smoked my son’s drugs



patently made up, from beginning to end - feeble


----------



## J Ed (Nov 14, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> ‘Hillary Clinton didn’t fail us. We failed her’



This is the sort of phrase I would use to caricature the hot takes of Clintonites post-election yet here it is, someone actually went and said it outright.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 14, 2016)

J Ed said:


> This is the sort of phrase I would use to caricature the hot takes of Clintonites post-election yet here it is, someone actually went and said it outright.


Quite an achievement to write such a long 'political' piece and not refer, whatsoever, to ideology, policy, or class.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 14, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> ‘Hillary Clinton didn’t fail us. We failed her’


I have no intention of reading that, but dear god just the title makes me want to break into the guardian's server farm and destroy everything, then hunt down the backups and nuke them from orbit, just to be sure.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 15, 2016)

has anyone else been put in the 'pre-moderated' sin bin , ie : all comments now on pre- mod ? I dont even post much, and its never what I'd call offensive, just moany old gubbins, so am a bit surprised tbh.

Am re-registering, and am genuinely going to try and be less negative on there. ( and just not read Hadley Freeman or Jonathan Jones ever again) .


----------



## emanymton (Nov 15, 2016)

cantsin said:


> has anyone else been put in the 'pre-moderated' sin bin , ie : all comments now on pre- mod ? I dont even post much, and its never what I'd call offensive, just moany old gubbins, so am a bit surprised tbh.
> 
> Am re-registering, and am genuinely going to try and be less negative on there. ( and just not read Hadley Freeman or Jonathan Jones ever again) .


Comment is free, as long as you don't dare disagree .


----------



## cantsin (Nov 15, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Comment is free, as long as you don't dare disagree .



innit


----------



## Zabo (Nov 15, 2016)

I have thought for some time that _The Guardian _columnists are trolls. A quick glance at my beloved Wikpedia confirms my suspicion.

A *troll* is a class of being in Norse mythology and Scandinavian folklore. In old Norse, beings described as trolls dwell in isolated rocks, mountains, or caves, live together in small family units, and are *rarely helpful to human beings.
*
Super Troll, Owen Jones, is on form today. Alas for him, the subscriber-critics must have had a few ton of bricks delivered.


----------



## Sue (Nov 18, 2016)

Glitter sweet: can Ed Balls save British politics? | Ayesha Hazarika


----------



## rekil (Nov 18, 2016)




----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 18, 2016)

"Progressivism" FFS!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2016)

Good mix there - oxbridge, the oxbridge of the US, and Eton.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2016)

I saw a trailer for that fantastic beasts shit and it looks like they've gone from eton/hogwarts to harvard/hogwarts in terms of dress and so on. Christ I hate harry potter.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 18, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I saw a trailer for that fantastic beasts shit and it looks like they've gone from eton/hogwarts to harvard/hogwarts in terms of dress and so on. Christ I hate harry potter.


May I bring this tweet to your attention?


----------



## rekil (Nov 18, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> May I bring this tweet to your attention?



He's a prick from the conspiraloon swamp who's only just worked out that there's something up with Alex Jones.



> But I can’t ignore the fact this doesn’t quite explain how Alex Jones’ message seems to have changed in recent years. It’s become darker, more sinister and scarier. These days he seems to offer less and less critiques of state institutions and structures.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 18, 2016)

copliker said:


> He's a prick from the conspiraloon swamp who's only just worked out that there's something up with Alex Jones.



Ah, shite.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 22, 2016)

Maybe this is just me, but from puting the peices together in this article the victem was using Grindr to pick up 15 year old boys for sex. well one boy at least.

It seems a bit off then to end with this glowing eurolgy 



> Jefferies’ colleague, Adrian Cooper, the deputy director of specialist personal tax at HMRC, said: “Paul was a highly valued colleague and friend. While he was private and reserved, he was also a warm and humorous man, kind, thoughtful, professional and dedicated to public service. He will be sadly missed and fondly remembered by all who worked with him.”


----------



## brogdale (Nov 24, 2016)

_*Six experts give their verdict on Phillip Hammond’s speech and the Office for Budget Responsibility’s new forecasts*_



> *Ian Stewart, chief economist at Deloitte
> Suren Thiru, head of economics at the British Chambers of Commerce
> Yael Selfin, head of macroeconomics at KPMG in the UK
> Ian Brinkley, acting chief economist at the CIPD, the trade body representing HR professionals
> ...


----------



## Tom A (Nov 24, 2016)

Paul Mason talks of a "Britain with near full employment"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

But seriously... no mention of those who are under-employed and struggling to make ends meet? No mention of those on zero-hours contracts? Or workfare???

Incredibly shoddy piece from someone who is supposed to be critical of the prevailing economic dogma.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2016)

Tom A said:


> Paul Mason talks of a "Britain with near full employment"
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> 
> ...


yes, the supposition he is critical of the current mode of production helps shift his books.


----------



## mikey mikey (Nov 24, 2016)

To be honest, Paul Mason is one of the less objectional/obsequious writers for the Graund.

This line caught my eye:


> At the centre of the fightback has to be a break with neoliberal economics.



As for the under-employed and those on zero-hours, well he goes on in the next line:



> Raise wages, end job insecurity, build homes and, before you do any of it, promise all of it loudly. You’d think it would be a no-brainer – until you remember how much energy Labour politicians and commentators poured into opposing such policies over the summer.


----------



## Tom A (Nov 24, 2016)

When I hear the term "full employment", I generally think of an ideal that everyone has a secure job with a living wage, it was meant to be one of the key aims of governments during the Keynesian post-war consensus. Therefore this is a poor choice of phrase from Mason, since the precarity people these days face is a long way from what people usually refer to as "full employment". It is just another in a long list of indicators that most Guardian columnists are nowhere near as in touch with those having to suffer the reality of austerity as they think they are.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2016)

Full employment, looked at from capitals perspective - and mason surely is in that piece - entails a def level of unemployment.

Mason is pretty clearly reading all his old books from his 20s this year. Maybe for the first time.


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 27, 2016)

Handcuffed in Waitrose: the innocent man in search of justice


----------



## J Ed (Nov 27, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> Full employment, looked at from capitals perspective - and mason surely is in that piece - entails a def level of unemployment.
> 
> Mason is pretty clearly reading all his old books from his 20s this year. Maybe for the first time.


----------



## stavros (Nov 27, 2016)

There was a rich irony in last Saturday's print edition, where an article about Trump and Roe vs Wade got cut off mid-sentence.


----------



## chilango (Nov 28, 2016)

Oh fuck off.

My year of no spending is over – here's how I got through it


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 28, 2016)

The secret life of a landlord: leaking showers and an illicit porn shoot | Anonymous

Maximum clickbait.


----------



## mauvais (Nov 28, 2016)

This is a bit anorak, but all the same:

Meet the woman who changed the dictionary definition of ‘femininity’

Basically the author of this piece about dictionary definitions needs to look up 'definition' in a dictionary.


----------



## JimW (Nov 28, 2016)

Saw this juxtaposition on Twitter as an image:
Forget Fidel Castro’s policies. What matters is that he was a dictator | Zoe Williams

Stop calling Tony Blair a war criminal. Labour should be proud of his record | Zoe Williams


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 29, 2016)

Those poor _experts_ and politicians just too reasonable for their own good


> Fatally, they had learned to be reasonable and listen to argument. Consequently they saw each issue from several sides, and could rarely bring themselves to press a single line relentlessly, or to show sufficient contempt for opponents and contrary views. Their nuances and subtle messages – right or wrong – were too complex for any banner. They spoke for the liberal elite, it was said, and against ruthless populism they were lost.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2016)

The Marlon brando crew? Fuck me, that's a useful up to date allusion. That's an odd pointless piece. Don't think i'll be bothering with his book on why we should read marx today.


----------



## killer b (Nov 29, 2016)

I love how he talks about working in _a school of government, focused on the education of future leaders from around the world_ as if that's an OK thing to even exist.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 30, 2016)




----------



## brogdale (Dec 1, 2016)

FFS


----------



## YouSir (Dec 1, 2016)

brogdale said:


> FFS



Never too young to be a cunt I guess.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

having realised the massed ranks of Hadley Freeman, Michael White, Henry Wintour and chums may just have taken their collective eye off the ball, Graun desperately  attempts to catch up with "ALT RIGHT", splashing nonsense every other day it seems - such is the newfound enthusiasm, they didn't manage to notice this was a blatant, patent fake. Feeble.

*‘Alt-right’ online poison nearly turned me into a racist*

‘Alt-right’ online poison nearly turned me into a racist | Anonymous


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 1, 2016)

sick to my back teeth of articles from these wanks talking about 'x must do y'

must. must. You hectoring wankers


----------



## J Ed (Dec 1, 2016)

Toxic Trumpism may have one formidable foe: corporate America | Bakari T Sellers


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 1, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Toxic Trumpism may have one formidable foe: corporate America | Bakari T Sellers


why not just walk around naked wearing a sanwich board declaring 'I HAVE NO IDEA HOW CAPITALISM WORKS' ? what a twonk.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> having realised the massed ranks of Hadley Freeman, Michael White, Henry Wintour and chums may just have taken their collective eye off the ball, Graun desperately  attempts to catch up with "ALT RIGHT", splashing nonsense every other day it seems - such is the newfound enthusiasm, they didn't manage to notice this was a blatant, patent fake. Feeble.
> 
> *‘Alt-right’ online poison nearly turned me into a racist*
> 
> ‘Alt-right’ online poison nearly turned me into a racist | Anonymous



'Alt-right': why the Guardian decided not to ban use of the term


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> having realised the massed ranks of Hadley Freeman, Michael White, Henry Wintour and chums may just have taken their collective eye off the ball, Graun desperately  attempts to catch up with "ALT RIGHT", splashing nonsense every other day it seems - such is the newfound enthusiasm, they didn't manage to notice this was a blatant, patent fake. Feeble.
> 
> *‘Alt-right’ online poison nearly turned me into a racist*
> 
> ‘Alt-right’ online poison nearly turned me into a racist | Anonymous


Says Paul Staines, who is a cunt and _would_ say that. I just thought it was a pointless article tbh that could have been true or lies and still wouldn't have made any difference.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2016)

The Guardian Opinion section is basically fish in barrels but this Simon Jenkins piece does carry on the "aren't young people awful, they said bad things about Germaine Greer" school: Blame the identity apostles – they led us down this path to populism | Simon Jenkins


> Identity liberalism elevated the “sacred victim”, uncriticisable ethnic minorities, women, gay people and migrants, to whom Hillary Clinton explicitly deferred in every speech. Thus to favour one group is to exclude another, in this case the so-called “left-behinders”, identified as the “pale, stale, male – and failed”.
> 
> In America, as in Europe, older, white men are the only group that liberals can abuse and exclude with impunity.


You just can't say anything about the (whoever).


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Says Paul Staines, who is a cunt and _would_ say that. I just thought it was a pointless article tbh that could have been true or lies and still wouldn't have made any difference.



it could never have been true, embarassingly poor attempt - not sure what Staines has to do with it ?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> it could never have been true, embarassingly poor attempt - not sure what Staines has to do with it ?



Staines has been banging on about it in his shit blog as if it means something.

The thing is that it was the sort of article that could easily have been true, and published in the Guardian. It's not trolling when you get something in that's perfectly believable and nobody notices. That's like people who say "I don't like jam" on a "who likes jam" thread and then say "ha ha trolling you".


----------



## cantsin (Dec 1, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Staines has been banging on about it in his shit blog as if it means something.
> 
> The thing is that it was the sort of article that could easily have been true, and published in the Guardian. It's not trolling when you get something in that's perfectly believable and nobody notices. That's like people who say "I don't like jam" on a "who likes jam" thread and then say "ha ha trolling you".



just felt like the Graun getting mugged off due to embarrassing levels of ignorance combined with over enthusiasm to catch up / get on board to me


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2016)

cantsin said:


> just felt like the Graun getting mugged off due to embarrassing levels of ignorance combined with over enthusiasm to catch up / get on board to me


The reason why they're not that interested as to whether it was a fake or not is because it was indistinguishable from something real. I've seen people who've gone that way because of liberal ideas of free speech and listening to all points of view. What made me think it was bollocks was that it was too neat, obviously written or re-written by somebody with a specific journey to tell and with no actual detail, but that's more of a subeditor fault.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 2, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The reason why they're not that interested as to whether it was a fake or not is because it was indistinguishable from something real. I've seen people who've gone that way because of liberal ideas of free speech and listening to all points of view. What made me think it was bollocks was that it was too neat, obviously written or re-written by somebody with a specific journey to tell and with no actual detail, but that's more of a subeditor fault.



Or it would have been a subbie fault if the Guardian had enough to go round.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 3, 2016)

brogdale said:


> FFS


MarkyMarrk's younger brother?


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 4, 2016)

The whole thing. All of it.




			
				David Mitchell said:
			
		

> It’s part of a long, noble and humane tradition of treating a complex world with compassion and self-doubt, rather than certainty and blame.



Oh God I threw up in my mouth a little.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 4, 2016)

Rob Ray said:


> View attachment 96558
> 
> The whole thing. All of it.
> 
> ...


The good old _Obbo_!



> ...Having witnessed Perceval’s assassination may have had a bearing on Dowling’s inclinations after the _Observer _was bought by William Clement in 1814. Clement, like his predecessor, WS Bourne, accepted a Home Office subsidy in return for allowing the government to help mould the paper’s political opinions, and in Dowling he found a sympathetic lieutenant.
> 
> Dowling became a Home Office informer, paid to provide evidence against a group of men known as the Spencean Philanthropists, who were demanding parliamentary reform and were seen in some quarters as dangerously revolutionary. Dowling used his shorthand skills to keep contemporaneous notes of what was said at their meetings, evidence that was later used in court against the men...



‘Fleet Street legend’ hardly seems to do Vincent Dowling justice


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2016)

> My showbiz friend Andreas Schmid, of krautrock legends Faust and Birmingham post-punks the Nightingales, even altered me to a German standup whose verbatim translation of the routine had scored 10 times more YouTube hits than my own original, for which the young comic has since apologised.



maybe if the sub eds were payed things might get better


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> maybe if the sub eds were payed things might get better


you need to include a link otherwise we have no idea who has written this


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 5, 2016)

My Paul Nuttalls routine has floated back up the U-bend | Stewart Lee

I think Suart Lee meant to write "alerted".


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2016)

I thought it had to be Lee


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> you need to include a link otherwise we have no idea who has written this


oh its stewart lee. I didn't bother to link, cos its the error rather than the article I was rolling my eyes at (although people need to stop saying post-facts as a synonym for thick)
My Paul Nuttalls routine has floated back up the U-bend | Stewart Lee


----------



## killer b (Dec 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought it had to be Lee


He's the only person person in the media who's even heard of The Nightingales, so I assumed it was him...


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 5, 2016)

killer b said:


> He's the only person person in the media who's even heard of The Nightingales, so I assumed it was him...


and the fact that he also thought it necessary to mention he'd been in Faust too


----------



## rekil (Dec 5, 2016)

Some quality jiggery pokery from Hadley Freeman.



> An intriguing theory has recently taken hold, fast calcifying into received wisdom. Hillary Clinton, so it goes, lost the US election because she “played identity politics”.
> 
> This idea has been enthusiastically endorsed by, among others, Bernie Sanders (“It is not enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me,’” he said, *as if Clinton ever – even once – argued this)*, and Mark Lilla in the New York Times (who described as “a strategic mistake “Clinton’s tendency “to slip into the rhetoric of diversity, calling out explicitly to African-American, Latino, LGBT and women voters at every stop”).



Hillary Clinton 'breaks through glass ceiling' on stage at DNC – video


----------



## hot air baboon (Dec 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> cos its the error rather than the article I was rolling my eyes at



...I thought the mis-prints in the - ahem - Grauniad - were a venerable and much revered British institution ....like a bloke dressed up as an Xmas pantomime character walking backwards carrying a hundredweight bit of gold bling to open parliament & stuff...a _feature_ rather than a bug in fact...


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 5, 2016)

copliker said:


> Some quality jiggery pokery from Hadley Freeman.
> 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton 'breaks through glass ceiling' on stage at DNC – video



And it is utterly deceitful and/or ignorant.



> "I am not asking people to vote for me because I am a woman, but I think if you vote for somebody on the merits, one of my merits is I am a woman"


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 5, 2016)

Puff piece for the new progressive hero Carney.


> The governor also used his first big speech since Donald Trump swept to power in the US to warn that open markets are under threat and that politicians must do more to share out the gains of global trade and the rise of technology.
> 
> Speaking against a backdrop of growing support for anti-establishment politicians, Carney repeatedly referred to people’s isolation, sense of insecurity and their frustrations with global trade and technology. Those forces had favoured the “superstar and the lucky”, he said. “But what of the frustrated and frightened?”



Because filth like him have nothing to do with this "isolation".



> “As a consequence of all of these developments, public support for open markets is under threat. Turning our backs on open markets would be a tragedy, but it is a possibility. It can only be averted by confronting the underlying reasons for this risk upfront.”


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 7, 2016)

> The left needs to get its act together


Mark Carney says we face a ‘lost decade’. The left needs to get its act together | Owen Jones

Next week, Owen Jones offers other practical advice such as

1) pull your socks up

2) get your finger out

3) shape up

4) _Just Do It_ tm


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Dec 8, 2016)

This is actually quite interesting, give its' source.  
Welcome to the age of anger | Pankaj Mishra

Pankaj Mishra | The Guardian


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 8, 2016)

mikey mikey said:


> Mark Carney says we face a ‘lost decade’. The left needs to get its act together | Owen Jones
> 
> Next week, Owen Jones offers other practical advice such as
> 
> ...


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 8, 2016)

Ah, the left-wing, socialist Guardian. Now in partnership with the Murdoch-backed Vice:

Guardian announces partnership with Vice


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 9, 2016)

Bakunin said:


> Ah, the left-wing, socialist Guardian. Now in partnership with the Murdoch-backed Vice:
> 
> Guardian announces partnership with Vice


Short version:

_We can't afford to pay our journalists so need to get someone with deeper pockets to do it for us_


----------



## mauvais (Dec 10, 2016)

Buy to let: ‘We landlords are being vilified’


----------



## J Ed (Dec 10, 2016)

mikey mikey said:


> Mark Carney says we face a ‘lost decade’. The left needs to get its act together | Owen Jones
> 
> Next week, Owen Jones offers other practical advice such as
> 
> ...



Sort ya life out!


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Buy to let: ‘We landlords are being vilified’


the moaning cunt srill makes 16k a year from other peoples work though


----------



## Sue (Dec 10, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Buy to let: ‘We landlords are being vilified’



'There’s a housing shortage, and landlords help this by providing accommodation -  but they are being vilified.'

And all out of the goodness of their hearts. Fucking hell.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 10, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the moaning cunt srill makes 16k a year from other peoples work though


That's not even the start of it. He must have at least a couple of million in assets (assuming he actually owns), which continue to appreciate. Rent is icing on the cake.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 11, 2016)

Blatantly a clickbait article though, designed to generate rage and attention. No mention that landlords are getting tax subsidies to accumulate property assets, and will continue to do so albeit at a lower rate.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 12, 2016)

Did anyone read Saturday's Guardian? Did anything sound familiar? This maybe. Shippea Hill: just 'one person a month' uses UK's quietest train station

Strange feeling of deja vu going on. Nearly one year ago to the day was this Shippea Hill: the railway station that saw just 22 journeys in a year


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 13, 2016)

> In January this year, pictures emerged of five-year-old Murtaza Ahmadi wearing a blue-and-white striped plastic bag to emulate the colours of the Argentinian team. *On the back of the bag* was scrawled the legend: “Messi 10”.



Afghan boy who had plastic bag Messi shirt meets his idol


----------



## J Ed (Dec 14, 2016)

Best comedy of 2016: Samantha Bee and Seth Meyers ace the Trump test


----------



## Sweet FA (Dec 14, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Afghan boy who had plastic bag Messi shirt meets his idol


_
"The boy’s unexpected fame has not been entirely welcome. After receiving constant telephone threats, the family was eventually forced to flee to Quetta in neighbouring Pakistan.

Murtaza’s father, Mohammad Arif Ahmadi, said he feared that his son would be kidnapped. The family first travelled to the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, but could not settle there because of the high cost of living. They later moved to Quetta.

“I sold all my belongings and brought my family out of Afghanistan to save my son’s life as well as the lives of the rest of the family,” he said in May."_


----------



## rekil (Dec 14, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Best comedy of 2016: Samantha Bee and Seth Meyers ace the Trump test






			
				Bee said:
			
		

> “I’m not voting for Hillary Clinton, either,” Bee announced, the night before the presidential election, to those who will be directing their votes elsewhere. “I’m voting for Hillary Goddamn Brilliant Badass Queen Beyoncé Rodham.”


Have you seen her Bernie Sanders supporters thing?


----------



## JimW (Dec 14, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> Afghan boy who had plastic bag Messi shirt meets his idol


Silly boy's put his bag on back-to-front.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 14, 2016)

copliker said:


> Have you seen her Bernie Sanders supporters thing?



Yes, honestly it's not even the worst thing she has done. Not even close, her whole schtick is nasty condescension aimed primarily at some of the most vulnerable in society then after that against powerful bigots (well, at least the ones on the other side)


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2016)

Got this begging email:


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Got this begging email:


TLDR


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> TLDR


that should be tl;dr
I only skimmed it tbh. It was the font that annoyed me the most


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> that should be tl;dr
> I only skimmed it tbh. It was the font that annoyed me the most


TL-DR


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2016)

they must be borassic because the begging notes now seem to be at the bottom of every article. Not he comic sans one tho


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> they must be borassic because the begging notes now seem to be at the bottom of every article. Not he comic sans one tho


that's not comic sans


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2016)

whatever it is, looks like a lean christmas at guardian towers


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 15, 2016)

Hope the backstabbing hacks go fucking broke.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

mikey mikey said:


> Hope the backstabbing hacks go fucking broke.


how did they stab you in the back, mikey mikey?


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 15, 2016)

Did I say they backstabbed me? 

Have a cup of tea and think about it. You can use your hands for this one.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

mikey mikey said:


> Did I say they backstabbed me?
> 
> Have a cup of tea and think about it. You can use your hands for this one.


if they didn't they should have done


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 15, 2016)

Do you mean literally? 

Do tell, Pickman.


----------



## Libertad (Dec 15, 2016)

Oooh, poppet time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2016)

mikey mikey said:


> Do you mean literally?
> 
> Do tell, Pickman.


i shall.


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 15, 2016)

Off you go then: did you mean I should have been _literally _stabbed in the back?


----------



## Libertad (Dec 16, 2016)

Libertad said:


> Oooh, poppet time.



Oh come on, I'm here all week, try the lobster. Pickman's model


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

mikey mikey said:


> Off you go then: did you mean I should have been _literally _stabbed in the back?


you brought backstabbing into the conversation, and i intended to convey by my use of it the meaning you had in mind when you first used the term in post 6103.


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 16, 2016)

uh huh. Thread trashing again, I see.

Yeah, the Graund sold out to neoliberalism (by way of identity politics) and neocon foreign policy.

Here is Jonathon Cook's take:



> the Guardian and Observer market themselves as caring about justice and equality, but do nothing to bring them about apart from promoting tinkering with the present, hugely unjust, global neoliberal order -





> Media like the Guardian are tied by a commercial and ideological umbilical cord to a neoliberal order a large swath of their readers are growing restless with or feel downright appalled by.
> 
> In 2003 the Observer knowingly suppressed the truth about Iraq and WMD to advance the case for an illegal, “preventive” war, one defined in international law as the supreme war crime.





> The Observer never felt the need to make real amends with Vulliamy or the readers it betrayed.



- See more at: Guardian’s terrible dilemma over Corbyn


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)




----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2016)

you'd have to pay me to listen to harman, not the other way round


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2016)

also: 'politician holding a pint' shot is clearly older than I had thought


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> also: 'politician holding a pint' shot is clearly older than I had thought


it's the last time she listened to a member of the working class.


----------



## hot air baboon (Dec 16, 2016)

...Harold Wilson also famously smoked cigars in private - the pipe was purely an actor's prop...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 17, 2016)

_Graun _lambasts Trump over spelling - first three paras:



> President-elect Donald Trump has risked further inflaming US relations with China, after he used Twitter on Saturday to accuse China of an “unpresidented [sic] act” in its seizing of an unmanned American submarine this week.
> 
> “China steals United States Navy research drone in international waters – rips it out of water and takes it to China in unpresidented act,” Trump said, misspelling “unprecedented”.
> 
> The tweet was later reissued with the correct spelling of “unprecedented”. The tweet containing the error was deleted.



Donald Trump accuses China of 'unpresidented' act over US navy drone


----------



## brogdale (Dec 18, 2016)

50 worst examples of 'journalism' 2016, part 1 (60 -40).....


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 19, 2016)

I feel like they do some version of this story every year Technology destroys people and places. I’m rejecting it | Mark Boyle
But I think it might just be the same guy who keeps pulling similar stunts


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 21, 2016)

was john crace ever funny?


----------



## mikey mikey (Dec 21, 2016)

He described Yvette Cooper as a "class act". I thought that was hilarious.
John Crace (@JohnJCrace) on Twitter


----------



## cantsin (Dec 21, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> was john crace ever funny?



never, literally. Makes Tim Dowling look like Will Ferrel.

Tbf, I think he's another one of the Grauns ' the sinking ship has no more budget, lets get Hadley Freeman/Jonathan Jones etc  to cover some politics' type utility players. 

Freeman's one of the worst broadsheet writers of all time asfaics.


----------



## Sue (Dec 21, 2016)

Feminism in action. 

I haven’t washed my hair in days – I’m part of the new beauty backlash | Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett


----------



## stavros (Dec 22, 2016)

Owen Jones says that some cunts are a bit cuntish and we should be worried, without coming up with any ideas: Nigel Farage’s attack on Jo Cox’s widower is a new low. Enough | Owen Jones

I think he's still pissed off at only coming second in The Apprentice.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Dec 24, 2016)

'I wrote something for the Guardian and three times they deleted a paragraph in which I was mildly supportive of Jeremy Corbyn.....They think they are on the far left of what is allowed in their world."


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Dec 26, 2016)

Mason goes all "war of position" and comes over as a prevaricating apologist for liberalism: 

Why I'm optimistic about 2017 | Paul Mason


----------



## J Ed (Dec 26, 2016)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Mason goes all "war of position" and comes over as a prevaricating apologist for liberalism:
> 
> Why I'm optimistic about 2017 | Paul Mason



I would also be optimistic about 2017 if I got paid to write just whatever like that


----------



## mauvais (Dec 27, 2016)

Corbyn hits back after Obama suggests Labour is 'disintegrating'

Front page news: "Corbyn hits back after Obama suggests Labour is 'disintegrating'"  

Which seems remarkable. But err actually?



> Obama had earlier said he was not worried when asked if the US Democrats could undergo “Corbynisation” and “disintegrate” like Labour in the wake of Hillary Clinton’s election defeat by Donald Trump.
> 
> The departing US president was giving an in-depth interview, in which he also said he would have won the 8 November contest if he ran for a third term, to David Axelrod, formerly an adviser to Corbyn’s predecessor as Labour leader, Ed Miliband



So more like, "Corbyn hits back after someone else's interviewer suggests Labour is 'disintegrating"


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Dec 27, 2016)

'Globalisation will fall apart'. _Right_, of course it will. 

Obnoxious simpleton.


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 28, 2016)

Forward the Progressives!


> The operation was masterminded by the Lib Dems themselves, but they couldn’t have won without support from other parties too, under the banner of “Vote for Europe”. This organisation, including many Labour voters, was happy to endorse the Lib Dem candidate, Sarah Olney, whose hostility to Brexit is well known. Looking at the efficiency of this campaign, and contemplating the woeful, divided condition of the Labour party, I’m beginning to ask myself whether we have missed a really important story.


----------



## General Veers (Dec 28, 2016)

The Guardian likes to be seen as left wing and challenging the system but they're a bunch of liberals who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.  Whenever someone comes along who proposes real change they soon turn on them.


----------



## stavros (Dec 29, 2016)

A rather pointless best footballers poll, where you have to get down to number 16 before you reach anyone who's vaguely defensive. And guess who's come top? I'll give you a choice of two... 

The 100 best footballers in the world 2016 – interactive


----------



## crossthebreeze (Dec 29, 2016)

This guide to how liberals and "labour centrists" and "tory modernisers" "remainers" and "social justice warriors" can apparently defeat bigotry and the alt-right by arguing on twitter - and which unsurprisingly seems to make no reference to talking to people in real life, organising collectively or politically,  or analysing power, but does namecheck thatcher in a relatively positive light.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 29, 2016)

Another one of these ludicrous _Amazon _PR (brainstorm) puff pieces that constitute nothing more than fake news as advert.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Dec 29, 2016)

crossthebreeze said:


> This guide to how liberals and "labour centrists" and "tory modernisers" "remainers" and "social justice warriors" can apparently defeat bigotry and the alt-right by arguing on twitter - and which unsurprisingly seems to make no reference to talking to people in real life, organising collectively or politically,  or analysing power, but does namecheck thatcher in a relatively positive light.


Well it is by the risible D'Ancona, who signalled his "career move" from the high Tory Telegraph by growing a pathetic attempt at a "hipster beard" and tweaking his political stance from Tory bullshitter to "liberal" bullshitter overnight.  Previously with the Spectator he rose to dizzy heights of deputy editor at the Torygraph. You want principles? If you don't like these he's got others, to misquote someone or other.


----------



## mather (Dec 29, 2016)

crossthebreeze said:


> and which unsurprisingly seems to make no reference to talking to people in real life, organising collectively or politically, or analysing power, but does namecheck thatcher in a relatively positive light.



Why would they, it's not even part of their politics. Not that I mind, if that lot continue on their current trajectory towards political irrelevance then all the better.


----------



## hot air baboon (Dec 29, 2016)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> to misquote someone or other



Groucho Marx....someone whose wit & wisdom we probably need today rather more than the Guardian's variety


----------



## General Veers (Dec 29, 2016)

They masquerade as left wing but they're far from it.  They dismiss any class anslysis preferring liberal identity politics (not even their own identity).  A bunch of Tory, patronising, middle class hipsters the lot of them.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 29, 2016)

Smartphones are stealing our time. This new year, I want to claim it back | Marcus Gilroy-Ware

tbh I feel a "dull emotional emptiness that has no name" every time I end up on the guardian website.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 1, 2017)

Help me out here - am reading this article (_Obbo_) about the realpolitik surrounding HMG's response to the 1989 arrest and subsequent execution by Saddam's regime in Iraq of Farzad Bazoft, an Iranian-born journalist with UK residency.

It's certainly a fascinating story - both then and now. But the way this article is laid out makes me think that they are fudging the details. Can anyone else cast their eyes over it and tell me if I am imagining it?

It's here:

‘It would be bad for our interests’: why Thatcher ignored the murder of an Observer journalist

The key problem I have is in the chronology.

Bazoft was arrested with British nurse Dee Parish in Iraq in September 1989. They were held in custody until trial in March 1990. Shortly afterwards Bazoft was executed; Parish received a fifteen year sentence.

So far, that all makes sense.

The article then states that:



> Ten months after Bazoft’s death, she was allowed to return to the UK.



But later it notes that:



> Also in the National Archives is a copy of a letter Thatcher sent to Saddam after the decision to release Parish. Dated 16 July 1990, it reads: “I was very pleased to hear of your Excellency’s decision to release Mrs Daphne Parish on humanitarian grounds … We have long-standing ties and there are many positive aspects to our relations on which we can build.”



Elsewhere, the BBC says that Parish was released in July 1990 (which chimes with the timing of the note to Saddam) (i.e. before the start of the invasion of Kuwait/Gulf War). Ten months after Bazoft's execution would be January 1991 - that is, during a period of hostilities between Iraq and the US-led Coalition, during either of the Desert Shield or later Desert Storm phases); an odd time to release a convicted foreign national.

If they actually mean Parish was released ten months after her arrest in September 1989, then that would be around July 1990 - so is it just a case of sloppy writing/subbing, and not something more complicated than that?


----------



## yield (Jan 1, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Elsewhere, the BBC says that Parish was released in July 1990 (which chimes with the timing of the note to Saddam) (i.e. before the start of the invasion of Kuwait/Gulf War). Ten months after Bazoft's execution would be January 1991 - that is, during a period of hostilities between Iraq and the US-led Coalition, during either of the Desert Shield or later Desert Storm phases); an odd time to release a convicted foreign national.
> 
> If they actually mean Parish was released ten months after her arrest in September 1989, then that would be around July 1990 - so is it just a case of sloppy writing/subbing, and not something more complicated than that?


Iraq Frees Nurse Held for Aiding 'Spy'
July 16, 1990|From Reuters


> BAGHDAD, Iraq — A British nurse, Daphne Parish, was freed today after she had been sentenced to 15 years in jail last March for helping a British-based Iranian journalist who was hanged by Baghdad for spying.
> 
> Parish, 53, was released from prison after a personal appeal by Zambian President Kenneth D. Kaunda.
> 
> ...


Reuters says she was released 16/07/90. Looks like sloppy journalism to me?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 1, 2017)

yield said:


> Reuters says she was released 16/07/90. Looks like sloppy journalism to me?



It certainly seems that way; it was just that the way the article phrased things, and its apparent obfuscation around the chronology, made me wonder whether it was perhaps _getting at something_. But it seems not, unless _something _is just _not properly proofreading_.


----------



## yield (Jan 1, 2017)

Other sources. I don't see nothing apart from poor reporting there. 
Propaganda, the Press and Conflict
Kaunda and Southern Africa


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 1, 2017)

The day violent thugs were driven out by hippies with glowsticks | Craig Stone


----------



## two sheds (Jan 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> The day violent thugs were driven out by hippies with glowsticks | Craig Stone



_Craig Stone is the author of The Squirrel that Dreamt of Madness

 _


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 1, 2017)

yield said:


> Kaunda and Southern Africa



Interesting to read about the Zambian angle


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 1, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> The day violent thugs were driven out by hippies with glowsticks | Craig Stone


The eternal dilemma of the _Graun _reader



> You have to do something or your girlfriend is going to think you less of a man, but you also don’t want to get killed. You are on acid, you idiot.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Jan 1, 2017)

Sorry I'm rather late to this thread: the premise seems to be the Guardian was ok but is deteriorating? In my view it was never ok and Nick Davies hatchet-job on Julian Assange in 2010 set the tone for press and media coverage generally. I have demolished this coverage but cowardly bastards that they are the Guardian will not dare defend themselves.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 2, 2017)

Seriously though when you're actively not bothering to have a headline that even vaguely relates to the quotes in the article just below so you can get a dig in (this applies to the Mirror too, which has an identical headline)...




			
				Len McCluskey said:
			
		

> Speaking to the Mirror, he said: “Let’s suppose we are not having a snap election. It buys into this question of what happens if we get to 2019 and opinion polls are still awful.
> 
> "The truth is everybody would examine that situation, including Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell.”
> 
> McCluskey, who said his backing for Corbyn was “based on critical support”, said: “These two are not egomaniacs. They are not desperate to cling on to power for power’s sake.”


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2017)

Is this a thing for rich Westerners now?
Traveling the developing world and expecting to be fed and sheltered for free?
How to travel the world with no money – by people who have done it


----------



## Sue (Jan 3, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Is this a thing for rich Westerners now?
> Traveling the developing world and expecting to be fed and sheltered for free?
> How to travel the world with no money – by people who have done it


It seems so. Urgh.


----------



## The Pale King (Jan 3, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Is this a thing for rich Westerners now?
> Traveling the developing world and expecting to be fed and sheltered for free?
> How to travel the world with no money – by people who have done it



Bloody hell, that's grotesque. I liked this bit though:

_The moment that stands out was on day 16, just over two weeks in to my trip. I had been pushing my bike up the Ecuadorian Andes for four days; it was pouring with rain and I was extremely hungry. I had passed house after house of rejection: no one would help. Nothing. We reached a house and I fell to my knees in tears, begging the woman for help, even just her garden to put up my tent. She looked at me, looked at how desperate I was, the tears streaming from my face, and shook her finger. Nothing. I could do nothing and I felt like nothing. I dug deep to source any shred of energy or willpower to keep going._

This anonymous Ecuadorian woman, whose name history will not record, is my hero.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 3, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Is this a thing for rich Westerners now?
> Traveling the developing world and expecting to be fed and sheltered for free?
> How to travel the world with no money – by people who have done it


But they are 'adventures'!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2017)

Max Gogarty thou art avenged


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 3, 2017)

Cool running: buying a pair of fancy trainers isn't what it used to be | Joel Priestland

#firstworldproblems


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 3, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> This anonymous Ecuadorian woman, whose name history will not record, is my hero.



It must have taken Herculean strength and saintly levels of self control to resist the urge to kick the silly twat back down the Ande she'd just slogged up, and her bike with her.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 3, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Cool running: buying a pair of fancy trainers isn't what it used to be | Joel Priestland
> 
> #firstworldproblems



That's two articles in the last half-dozen posts that it's hard to believe are even genuine. Have we considered the possibility that the Guardian now exists solely to troll this thread?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 3, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> That's two articles in the last half-dozen posts that it's hard to believe are even genuine. Have we considered the possibility that the Guardian now exists solely to troll this thread?




I certainly think they are aiming for the "wtf is this shit?" reclicks to make people read the paper yes.

I'd have quoted it to save having to open the link but it was just such a long article full of shit I had trouble finding where to quote.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 3, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I certainly think they are aiming for the "wtf is this shit?" reclicks to make people read the paper yes.
> 
> I'd have quoted it to save having to open the link but it was just such a long article full of shit I had trouble finding where to quote.


You read it!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 3, 2017)

Double post...


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 3, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> That's two articles in the last half-dozen posts that it's hard to believe are even genuine. Have we considered the possibility that the Guardian now exists solely to troll this thread?



They've got 37 pages of comments on the travelling for free article so they're doing well with their clickbait somewhere.


----------



## Combustible (Jan 3, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They've got 37 pages of comments on the travelling for free article so they're doing well with their clickbait somewhere.



Seems like some of the featured individuals are also posting in the comments. Apparently saying that people shouldn't travel with no money with the expectation of sponging off the much poorer locals is "talking on behalf of people from developing countries rather then giving them a voice", 

whereas  "throughout my journey I did this every day on my blog. I did not speak for the, I spoke to them, watched them, connected with the man and tried to accurately present their lives and beliefs which is both rich And poor in different ways."

I can't imagine how grateful they are for paying for this privilege...


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 3, 2017)

Combustible said:


> Seems like some of the featured individuals are also posting in the comments. Apparently saying that people shouldn't travel with no money with the expectation of sponging off the much poorer locals is "talking on behalf of people from developing countries rather then giving them a voice",
> 
> whereas  "throughout my journey I did this every day on my blog. I did not speak for the, I spoke to them, watched them, connected with the man and tried to accurately present their lives and beliefs which is both rich And poor in different ways."
> 
> I can't imagine how grateful they are for paying for this privilege...



I've been reading those. I liked this one, about people criticising her: 





> It's so sad as I just had a Mexican friend to stay in my house for two weeks over Christmas and my parents loved it as they have never met a Mexican before let alone one born in Mexico City... as I say when you open your mind and stop thinking in terms of money, the world becomes a beautiful place...





Personally I think they're really missing a trick not having Stanley Edwards in there.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 3, 2017)

“You've had a _Mexican_? Oh how _wonderful_!”


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 3, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They've got 37 pages of comments on the travelling for free article so they're doing well with their clickbait somewhere.



How many of them have similar usernames to people on here?


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 3, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> > It's so sad as I just had a Mexican friend to stay in my house for two weeks over Christmas and my parents loved it as they have never met a Mexican before let alone one born in Mexico City... as I say when you open your mind and stop thinking in terms of money, the world becomes a beautiful place...



That's funny, I had a Mexican to stay in my house over Christmas too, and all he did was run around really fast, shouting 'Andale Andale!' and stealing all my cheese, whilst offering to buy my 'weemin'.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 3, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> That's funny, I had a Mexican to stay in my house over Christmas too



What was his opinion on the ongoing saga of badger culls?


----------



## J Ed (Jan 4, 2017)

Combustible said:


> Seems like some of the featured individuals are also posting in the comments. Apparently saying that people shouldn't travel with no money with the expectation of sponging off the much poorer locals is "talking on behalf of people from developing countries rather then giving them a voice",



The rich have become very fluent in this particular line of bullshit, haven't they?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2017)

part 2 a series of lies:


The headline story didn't have a damn thing to do with brexit and was based on existing EU and UK laws. They did the same lie with a woman last week.


----------



## Zabo (Jan 5, 2017)

I've noticed some of the articles - for want of a better word - are now showing a blank page if you use ad and cookie blockers.

As for their recent p.r. stint about being 'neutral' and having no paymasters. What nonsense. Here is an instance.

They ran an article by IKEA bemoaning the kids who set up camp overnight in their stores. A nice piece of pro-IKEA. Within twenty four hours almost all the other media except for the Guardian was running the story about the $50 million pay out to the families whose children had been killed by IKEA's falling drawer furniture.

A quick search shows the Guardian runs very few stories that could be harmful to advertising revenue - a charge that was made against them way back when about their pro Apple stance.

Maybe they should run a new banner: It's not what we report, it's what we don't report rather than the "Fearless Reporting" lie.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2017)

I look forward to the successor to this thread, why the guardian has disappeared up its own arse


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2017)

Zabo said:


> I've noticed some of the articles - for want of a better word - are now showing a blank page if you use ad and cookie blockers.
> 
> As for their recent p.r. stint about being 'neutral' and having no paymasters. What nonsense. Here is an instance.
> 
> ...


So much for facts are sacred eh


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 5, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I look forward to the successor to this thread, why the guardian has disappeared up its own arse


The Human Graunipede


----------



## J Ed (Jan 9, 2017)

How the Guardian Changed Tack on Corbyn, Despite Its Readers | Novara Media



> The Guardian occupied a special place in relation to the left. Although the newspaper’s daily print circulation was low, its online reach was wide and individual articles could have a huge readership when shared on social media. The Guardian’s own research into its readers demonstrated that the newspaper served a demographic that was crucial to the leadership contest. When its consumer insight team questioned a sample of its ‘core readership’ in the UK in the midst of the campaign on 30 July 2015, it found that 15% were Labour members and a further 9% were registered supporters, meaning that nearly a quarter of the Guardian’s avid readers had a vote (a proportion that probably increased before the 12 August deadline for registration). Labour elites clearly regarded the Guardian as an important medium for communicating with voters, as several of them – including David Miliband, Alan Johnson, Peter Hain and Tony Blair – chose to place anti-Corbyn opinion pieces in the newspaper.
> 
> In the Guardian these New Labour veterans found a reliable ally. While not a loyal Labour-supporting newspaper like the Daily Mirror, it was the primary mainstream venue for leftish opinion-forming in the UK. Its role was not a passive one. In its choice of what was newsworthy, in its framing of the news and in its selection of opinion writers, the Guardian wielded huge influence over the terms of debate. It helped define the political field of play, and then acted as linesman on the left-side touchline. Or, to switch metaphors, it policed the boundary of acceptable opinion. In usual times, this policing operation was low-level, almost implied. But just as the full force of the state becomes visible during an emergency, so the Guardian’s role in British political life was laid bare when an outsider MP threatened to overturn politics as usual.
> 
> ...


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 9, 2017)

Samantha Cameron's fashion label...

Could be worse. At least they've mustered some disapproval whilst giving her this free publicity.


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 11, 2017)

Animal porn is now news Snow monkey attempts sex with deer in rare example of interspecies mating


----------



## J Ed (Jan 11, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Animal porn is now news Snow monkey attempts sex with deer in rare example of interspecies mating



Got to target those niche demographics


----------



## rekil (Jan 11, 2017)

I always get the feeling they're edging towards openly promoting cults.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Animal porn is now news Snow monkey attempts sex with deer in rare example of interspecies mating


is it bestiality if no humans are involved in this sort of thing?


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 11, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> is it bestiality if no humans are involved in this sort of thing?


I almost wrote bestiality!

Wasn't sure, myself.

Question of the year, so far, defo


----------



## JimW (Jan 11, 2017)

copliker said:


> View attachment 98654
> 
> I always get the feeling they're edging towards openly promoting cults.


Make a change from the self-promoting cunts, I suppose.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 11, 2017)

copliker said:


> View attachment 98654
> 
> I always get the feeling they're edging towards openly promoting cults.


Curative retreats for sufferers of chronic Brexit fever


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2017)

Government will lose Brexit supreme court case, ministers believe


----------



## two sheds (Jan 11, 2017)

i'd always thought it stood for "keep it simple, stupid" which seems much more pertinent here


----------



## J Ed (Jan 12, 2017)

This is disgusting Why British Baftas frontrunner I, Daniel Blake may betray its own cause | David Cox


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 12, 2017)

B





> enefit cheats go unmentioned in I, Daniel Blake, but they would still need to be weeded out. Equally, claimants who failed to comply with conditions imposed on them would still have to be somehow sanctioned. Without such measures, the whole system would become a soft touch and lose public support.



far as I got. Twisted liberal shite


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 12, 2017)

That's a piece by moronic professional 'contrarian' David Cox, a shit cut price Dwyer or a slightly less tedious version of JC3.



> At present, he is writing a book on political disengagement and disintermediation entitled 'The Rule of the Rabble'.


Sounds wonderful


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 12, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> That's a piece by moronic professional 'contrarian' David Cox, a shit cut price Dwyer or a slightly less tedious version of JC3.
> 
> Sounds wonderful


note how prevelant this is now, we've gone from the old saw about 'voter apathy' all the way to pathologising the working class as some sort of errant and mentally damaged child. If they want to push that one they could at least develop some soma to numb me from having to hear this bollocks


----------



## Libertad (Jan 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> note how prevelant this is now, we've gone from the old saw about 'voter apathy' all the way to pathologising the working class as some sort of errant and mentally damaged child. If they want to push that one they could at least develop some soma to numb me from having to hear this bollocks



Yeah this.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2017)

tristram hunt is appointed to be next director of the v&a.



but the "2010 piece" was written in er 2011


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 13, 2017)

The Guardian writes an article about an advert: The new Thomson Holidays advert is lump-in-your-throat nostalgia

Nice free publicity if you can get it.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jan 13, 2017)

Twitter takedown of Guardian "review" of Nadiya Hassain's novel:


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Twitter takedown of Guardian "review" of Nadiya Hassain's novel:



the shelf space thing a remarkably stupid thing to say.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 13, 2017)




----------



## butchersapron (Jan 14, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> part 2 a series of lies:
> 
> View attachment 98315
> The headline story didn't have a damn thing to do with brexit and was based on existing EU and UK laws. They did the same lie with a woman last week.


And another one
Dutchwoman resident in UK for 30 years may have to leave after Brexit

Dutchwoman resident in UK for 30 years may have to leave after Brexit


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 14, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> And another one
> Dutchwoman resident in UK for 30 years may have to leave after Brexit
> 
> Dutchwoman resident in UK for 30 years may have to leave after Brexit


Actually,  this one is a real issue , unlike the other two articles which were stupid. Getting a permanent residence card (as opposed to generslly proving right to permanent residence) only became a necessary step before naturalisation, in November 2015, and this particularly tightened the rules for people who have not been in paid employment or studying, including carers, stay at home parents, homemakers, self employed people, etc - even those married to british nationals. Plus i guess lots of people ended up here married to eu workers who had the right to be here, or to british nationals, and didn't check their situation against the complex law on the subject as the state wasn't checking either.  

Its all because its always been freedom of movement of labour, not people - and any post brexit immigration policy will also focus on labour not people. So lots of people in this situation - and its more women then men - are understandably worried that if they can't get a permanent residence card, or be naturalised as british, and aren't a full-time worker,  then their right to stay in the uk - or their rights to NHS treatment and benefits etc - might be very shaky post brexit.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 14, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> Actually,  this one is a real issue , unlike the other two articles which were stupid. Getting a permanent residence card (as opposed to generslly proving right to permanent residence) only became a necessary step before naturalisation, in November 2015, and this particularly tightened the rules for people who have not been in paid employment or studying, including carers, stay at home parents, homemakers, self employed people, etc - even those married to british nationals. Plus i guess lots of people ended up here married to eu workers who had the right to be here, or to british nationals, and didn't check their situation against the complex law on the subject as the state wasn't checking either.
> 
> Its all because its always been freedom of movement of labour, not people - and any post brexit immigration policy will also focus on labour not people. So lots of people in this situation - and its more women then men - are understandably worried that if they can't get a permanent residence card, or be naturalised as british, and aren't a full-time worker,  then their right to stay in the uk - or their rights to NHS treatment and benefits etc - might be very shaky post brexit.


But brexit changed nothing but their perception of their situation? The rules came from the EU not brexit. So having this on the frontpage

 
is an example of going down the pan.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 15, 2017)

The story - or at least the spin on it - on the left. The picture used to illustrate it on the right.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jan 15, 2017)

The Guardian will get endless mileage out of the phrase "_after _Brexit" for years to come. Not _because of_, but _after._


----------



## Zabo (Jan 15, 2017)

"Comments here were turned on in error and will be closing shortly."

Trump's first UK post-election interview: Brexit a 'great thing'


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 16, 2017)

French progressives dare to hope as maverick Macron surges in polls



> ...packed concert hall...France’s youngest presidential candidate...trademark thunderous speaking style...maverick centrist...a growing phenomenon...maverick former economy minister...



Here we go, five paras in:



> The 39-year-old former investment banker, who had been a chief adviser and then economy minister to François Hollande, was not a member of any political party. He had never run for any kind of election.



I FOR ONE WELCOME OUR NEW DEMOCRATICALLY-UNTESTED TECHNOCRATIC MANAGERIALIST OVERLORDS

Love this bit:



> Fanny Brunet, 24, an engineering student from Aix-en-Provence, once voted Socialist. “Emmanuel Macron is young; he sees the world the way we see it,” she said. “I want realism; I’m fed up with politicians making promises that can’t be kept.”



HWMNBN was a strapping young lad of only thirty-four years when he had his little adventure in Munich; the bald fellow he was emulating has his own _youthful moment_ in Rome as a Macron-esque 39 year old.

Also:



> Ghislaine Desbordes, 50, a trainer in office management and an independent local councillor from Wambrechies, near Lille, approved of Macron’s regular appearances on the front cover of celebrity magazines with his wife, who is 24 years older and was once his drama teacher. “Having an older wife means he’s tolerant in life. He’s not closed-minded,” she said.



TheseGaulsarecrazy.gif


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 16, 2017)

Utterly sycophantic piece that, I linked to in the French presidential election thread. Notice the lack of any figures for these massively surges in the polls.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 16, 2017)

"What do we want?"
"Pragmatic Realism"
"When do we want it?"
"Whenever it is convenient"


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 20, 2017)

Words that should be banned

That thing when comment turns out not to be free after all? That.

Totes not amused right now. Because Guardian. Can't even.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 20, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Words that should be banned
> 
> That thing when comment turns out not to be free after all? That.
> 
> Totes not amused right now. Because Guardian. Can't even.


Not sure, I'm pretty much with them on this one.

ETA - although I was annoyed that most of the examples where phrases rather than single words.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Words that should be banned
> 
> That thing when comment turns out not to be free after all? That.
> 
> Totes not amused right now. Because Guardian. Can't even.


The guardian's 2017 nadir reached in january


----------



## belboid (Jan 20, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The guardian's 2017 nadir reached in january


you optimist you


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 21, 2017)

Why didn't _you _succeed?


----------



## The Boy (Jan 21, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Words that should be banned
> 
> That thing when comment turns out not to be free after all? That.
> 
> Totes not amused right now. Because Guardian. Can't even.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 21, 2017)

At least the Guardian keeps us up to date with all the important news about Trump. Like what his wife is wearing. 

Melania Trump's style evokes Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2017)

emanymton said:


> At least the Guardian keeps us up to date with all the important news about Trump. Like what his wife is wearing.
> 
> Melania Trump's style evokes Jackie Kennedy and Nancy Reagan


We all know it's what women wear that is important.  Nothing else, certainly not their opinions.


----------



## JimW (Jan 21, 2017)

Barney Ronay keeping at the Lewisham corruption over milwall's ground is a small redeeming feature.


----------



## treelover (Jan 22, 2017)

The Guardian celebrates the fact that Yvette Cooper spoke at the London Women's march, this is the woman who as Employment Secretary brought in the Kafkaesque 'invisible wheelchair' test as part of a revised test for disability benefits: if you could 'self-propel this imaginary wheelchair' 50 metres, you didn't actually have to have one, you failed the test. Obviously the new politics isn't as inclusive as described.


----------



## bi0boy (Jan 25, 2017)

I suppose the British PM ought to refuse to talk to the new US President until he stops being mean

Theresa May will be the first leader to meet Trump. This is a national disgrace | Susanna Rustin


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jan 26, 2017)

As ecstasy makes a comeback, we need more brave parents like the Betts | Emma Barnett
No mention of the 7 litres of water she drank that actually caused her death.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 26, 2017)

Indeliblelink said:


> As ecstasy makes a comeback, we need more brave parents like the Betts | Emma Barnett
> No mention of the 7 litres of water she drank that actually caused her death.


I think they've added it.  Shit article, but the embedded video is quite good - looks at the dutch model of pill testing and speaks to a scientist researching why women are more likely to die or seek hospital treatment after taking pills than men - and he's critical about the "drugs are bad" approach.


----------



## mather (Jan 26, 2017)

Indeliblelink said:


> As ecstasy makes a comeback, we need more brave parents like the Betts | Emma Barnett
> No mention of the 7 litres of water she drank that actually caused her death.



Only it does mention it. Save your anger for the cunts that sent her poor parents death threats.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 26, 2017)

Admitting that their afternoon of shit-stirring came to nought.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jan 26, 2017)

mather said:


> Only it does mention it. Save your anger for the cunts that sent her poor parents death threats.


It wasn't there earlier.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 27, 2017)

Would Bell draw a cartoon implying that Trump is going to have sex with a male Prime Minister?

I don't usually spend much time worrying about things like this, and I'm not going to spend much time on this, but there is something deeply uncomfortable about this cartoon in my view.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Would Bell draw a cartoon implying that Trump is going to have sex with a male Prime Minister?
> 
> I don't usually spend much time worrying about things like this, and I'm not going to spend much time on this, but there is something deeply uncomfortable about this cartoon in my view.


Something? Could you be more specific?


----------



## J Ed (Jan 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Something? Could you be more specific?


 
I'm not sure. Perhaps it just seems like crude sexism to me, what do you think?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Would Bell draw a cartoon implying that Trump is going to have sex with a male Prime Minister?
> 
> I don't usually spend much time worrying about things like this, and I'm not going to spend much time on this, but there is something deeply uncomfortable about this cartoon in my view.


Wow. I was going to include the piece they posted last night about class inequality being down to lack of confidence. Written by an Oxbridge graduate and illustrated with the example of private school and Oxbridge bbc insider and member of a long term elite family Jeremy paxman, but now...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I'm not sure. Perhaps it just seems like crude sexism to me, what do you think?


Have you contrasted it to gillray's cartoon of the same name? Fashionable contrasts; -or- the duchess's little shoe yielding to the magnitude of the duke's foot


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Wow. I was going to include the piece they posted last night about class inequality being down to lack of confidence. Written by an Oxbridge graduate and illustrated with the example of private school and Oxbridge bbc insider and member of a long term elite family and also apparently a victim of this lack of confidence Jeremy paxman, but now...


The more the merrier


----------



## J Ed (Jan 27, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Wow. I was going to include the piece they posted last night about class inequality being down to lack of confidence. Written by an Oxbridge graduate and illustrated with the example of private school and Oxbridge bbc insider and member of a long term elite family and also apparently a victim of this lack of confidence Jeremy paxman, but now...



Why would that cartoon stop you from doing that?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 27, 2017)

It didn't, I was suggesting that this cartoon might attract more attention.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 27, 2017)

bells always been a wanker, remember that 'proley paedo haters' cartoon?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 27, 2017)

I tried moving to the country. Now I spend the savings travelling to Sydney | Brigid Delaney's diary



> * Brigid Delaney *
> Brigid Delaney is a senior writer for Guardian Australia. She has previously worked as a lawyer and journalist at the Sydney Morning Herald, the Telegraph (London), ninemsn and CNN. She is the author of two books: This Restless Life and Wild Things


----------



## J Ed (Jan 27, 2017)

Do journalists just not read anymore?


----------



## J Ed (Jan 27, 2017)

Altho tbf 1984 would have benefited from the addition of Tiny Train World


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Do journalists just not read anymore?


all of them are that twat you knew when studying who was winging it from sparknotes and google


----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> all of them are that twat you knew when studying who was winging it from sparknotes and google


I did a journalism degree, and can confirm this is the case. I remember in a lecture half way through the third year once, one lad turning to me and saying 'The Express - that's a left wing newspaper right?'


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Do journalists just not read anymore?




They read Harry Potter a lot, or maybe they've just seen the films to much.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 27, 2017)

killer b said:


> I did a journalism degree










killer b said:


> a journalism degree










killer b said:


> journalism degree


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2017)

killer b said:


> I did a journalism degree


(((killer b)))


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 27, 2017)

No offence like, just has the ring of one of those old Warners films, _I Was A Communist For The FBI_ or whatnot


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Do journalists just not read anymore?


journalism's gone into freefall since they started having degrees in the subject.


----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2017)

What can I say? I was young. If I had my time again etc.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Do journalists just not read anymore?


The clear implication is that they can't write anymore, though they can just about manage the C, X and V keys


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 27, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> No offence like, just has the ring of one of those old Warners films, _I Was A Communist For The FBI_ or whatnot


Killer b in _I was an Intern at the Guardian_, plenty of exploitation there!


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 27, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Wow. I was going to include the piece they posted last night about class inequality being down to lack of confidence. Written by an Oxbridge graduate and illustrated with the example of private school and Oxbridge bbc insider and member of a long term elite family Jeremy paxman, but now...


Jesus. Just amazing, what kind of world do these people live in.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jan 27, 2017)

Certainly not mine.


----------



## Santino (Jan 27, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Jesus. Just amazing, what kind of world do these people live in.


Tiny Train World.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 28, 2017)

killer b said:


> What can I say? I was young. If I had my time again etc.


“Conscientious practice of self-criticism is still another hallmark distinguishing our Party from all other political parties.”


----------



## killer b (Jan 28, 2017)

Alcoholics Anonymous has a similar motto - i wonder if there's many other parallels between Mao and Bill W?


----------



## hot air baboon (Jan 29, 2017)

..aaaa...the _glory_ days....


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 29, 2017)

_File photo of a gay couple seeking legal recognition of their relationship. Photograph: Vadim Ghirda/AP_


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 30, 2017)

Britain has values. We can't cosy up to a nation that scorns them

Fight nationalism with nationalism


----------



## emanymton (Jan 30, 2017)

I quited liked that they had a tracker for how many meters of Trump's wall had been built so far. But they've got rid of it already.


----------



## Lurdan (Jan 30, 2017)

Can't myself see the problem with degrees for journalism. About 600 Celsius should do the job nicely.

I see one of the Guardians better known freelancers has come up with another cracker at her other gig at the Mail

Erasing our identity by banning doctors from calling pregnant patients 'mothers' is an insult to women, writes JULIE BINDEL



> The British Medical Association’s recommendation for doctors to avoid the phrase ‘expectant mothers’ is just the latest assault on womanhood by the transgender lobby.
> 
> The BMA is one of the many institutions now fearful of acknowledging the realities of the biological differences between the sexes, at the risk of offending transgender people.
> 
> Trans-activists are enjoying huge success in their campaign to re-invent our language so that every aspect our lives becomes ‘gender neutral’ – from pregnancy down to lavatory habits.



etc. etc. etc.


----------



## stavros (Jan 30, 2017)

Free range is a con.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 30, 2017)

stavros said:


> Free range is a con.


Why is this article on this thread?


----------



## Old Spark (Jan 31, 2017)

Dunno about the graun but Dave hated Dacre.


Cameron 'tried to get Mail editor sacked' over Brexit - BBC News


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 31, 2017)

Whisper it: Ed Miliband is hot again | Gaby Hinsliff


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 1, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Whisper it: Ed Miliband is hot again | Gaby Hinsliff



I saw that one - couldn't even face cutting and pasting the headline into this thread...


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Why is this article on this thread?


They should have posted this one Why I hate second-hand books


----------



## two sheds (Feb 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> They should have posted this one Why I hate second-hand books



All becomes clear when you see the writer's name is Chas Newkey-Burden.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 1, 2017)

two sheds said:


> All becomes clear when you see the writer's name is Chas Newkey-Burden.



I see he had an earlier article entitled 'Some authors make you feel sick'. How right you are, Chas.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 1, 2017)

We cannot celebrate revolutionary Russian art – it is brutal propaganda

We cannot celebrate revolutionary Russian art – it is brutal propaganda


----------



## killer b (Feb 1, 2017)

I wish he'd change his shirt.


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2017)

sunnysidedown said:


> We cannot celebrate revolutionary Russian art – it is brutal propaganda
> 
> We cannot celebrate revolutionary Russian art – it is brutal propaganda


Post reported for direct linking to a Jonathan Jones 'article'.


----------



## emanymton (Feb 1, 2017)

Santino said:


> Post reported for direct linking to a Jonathan Jones 'article'.


You'd deliberately inflict it on the mods. What sort of monster are you.


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 2, 2017)

Free market Tory supporting EU is wonderful gushes Polly.
Ken Clarke was magnificent, defying the Brexit zealots


> He had earned his right to make a sweeping dismissal of the referendum for the absurdity of such “an enormous question answered with a single yes or no on one day”, since he alone had voted against holding one. The real betrayal of voters, he said, was for MPs not to vote with their conscience and judgment.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 3, 2017)




----------



## J Ed (Feb 3, 2017)

Or perhaps that it more suited to the 'why the Guardian is good actually' thread... as the only post


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


>


They appear to have corrected it

Bassline house looks to find a niche where grime failed


----------



## stavros (Feb 4, 2017)

Is anything known of the Shadow Chancellor's musical tastes?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 5, 2017)

Trump is no fascist. He is a champion for the forgotten millions

Even by its own standards, this superficial guff is pretty shocking.



> America is divided between the elites and everybody else, and Trump’s election was a rejection of the elites.


FFS


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 5, 2017)

I read that this morning and couldn't even get angry about it. I did like the idea that Trump supporters up and down the country were saying "he really needs to dismantle the Dodd-Frank financial regulations" throughout the campaign, though.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 5, 2017)

This is why when I search terms like 'Trump news', I add -guardian.


----------



## elbows (Feb 8, 2017)

Dear oh dear.

How can Obama smile at a time like this? I think he knows something | Jonathan Jones


----------



## Dom Traynor (Feb 9, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Trump is no fascist. He is a champion for the forgotten millions
> 
> Even by its own standards, this superficial guff is pretty shocking.
> 
> ​FFS


Not very well written and no real conclusion, but the essential point seems to be that working Americans feel fucked over by the system and looked to a convincing alternative - who is actually keeping some of his promises. 

Seems legit


----------



## brogdale (Feb 11, 2017)

> *“We swapped our terraced house in Lewisham for an eight-bedroom house in the Cotswolds, though it meant increasing our mortgage”*


Bless.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 11, 2017)

Good decision, one we all have to make sooner or later.


----------



## emanymton (Feb 11, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Bless.


I do hope they can manage the extra the poor dears.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 11, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Bless.



"with their daughter Tabitha"


----------



## brogdale (Feb 11, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> "with their daughter Tabitha"


Yes, these are our people...



> “I was working at a ‘magic circle’ law firm as a corporate lawyer and, while I was very happy at work, working in the City can put a strain on family life.”
> 
> The couple’s London home had gone up 62% in value over the two years they had owned it. This enabled them to buy an eight-bedroom, Grade II-listed house in the Cotswolds near a good state school.



What's not to like about them?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 11, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Bless.


Do the Meibion reach that far over the Marches?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 11, 2017)

if I wanted to hear about that shite I'd watch Ecape to the Cuntry


----------



## redsquirrel (Feb 11, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> "with their daughter Tabitha"


TBF I do think the name Tabitha is cool as fuck


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

Jonathan Jones is the worst of all, the shitty-shirt-wearing twerp
How can Obama smile at a time like this? I think he knows something | Jonathan Jones


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

He's supposed to be an art critic. How can we trust his taste when he wears such hideous garb?


----------



## Santino (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Jonathan Jones is the worst of all, the shitty-shirt-wearing twerp
> How can Obama smile at a time like this? I think he knows something | Jonathan Jones


Post reported for unbroken Jonathan Jones link.


----------



## NoXion (Feb 12, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Bless.



Has the Guardian ever been particularly proletarian, though? I would guess "no".


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Has the Guardian ever been particularly proletarian, though? I would guess "no".


fabians ennit


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> He's supposed to be an art critic. How can we trust his taste when he wears such hideous garb?



He probably believes himself to be wearing it ironically.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> fabians ennit



Yep, top-downist "Lady Bountiful" do-gooder shitpokes.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 12, 2017)

Santino said:


> Post reported for unbroken Jonathan Jones link.


If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 16, 2017)

Churchill’s scientific papers reveal an even greater politician than we thought | Graham Farmelo


----------



## emanymton (Feb 18, 2017)

Humble French restaurant swamped after Michelin mistake makes it a star




> a cheap and cheerful restaurant in central France ... Regulars pay €12.50 (£10) for homemade beef bourguignon



Ok its not exactly expensive. But cheap and cheerfull?


----------



## J Ed (Feb 18, 2017)

This is effectively just a report on corporate brands interacting with each other in public, isn't it?

Adele’s tribute to Beyoncé was a frank admission of privilege. I salute it | Michaela Coel



> Was there really a white celebrity on stage at the Grammys saying to a black artist: “The way that you make me and my friends feel, the way you make my black friends feel, is empowering”?
> 
> e’ve all seen clips of Adele’s inspiring acceptance speech at the Grammys by now. I clicked on the link to watch, and the first thing I heard was Adele saying: “I can’t possibly accept this award … I’m very humbled and I’m very grateful … but my artist of my life is Beyoncé. And this album to me, the Lemonade album, is just so monumental.”


----------



## killer b (Feb 18, 2017)

emanymton said:


> Humble French restaurant swamped after Michelin mistake makes it a star
> 
> 
> 
> ...


bear in mind that six months ago that was more like £7


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 18, 2017)

Looks kinda cheap and cheerful though


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2017)

emanymton said:


> Humble French restaurant swamped after Michelin mistake makes it a star
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you'd struggle to eat out for less. eating out is expensive


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> you'd struggle to eat out for less. eating out is expensive


Pizza + drink + tip at franca manca £10


----------



## emanymton (Feb 18, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> you'd struggle to eat out for less. eating out is expensive


£8-10 is about average for a main course for me, so it's  not really cheap. Cheap to me would be about a fiver.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2017)

killer b said:


> bear in mind that six months ago that was more like £7


Don't think the pound's ever been worth €1.78


----------



## emanymton (Feb 18, 2017)

killer b said:


> bear in mind that six months ago that was more like £7


There is that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2017)

6 months ago > August 18. On Aug 18 2016 Google reports £1=€1.18. The meal would be more than £10 


killer b said:


> bear in mind that six months ago that was more like £7


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2017)

emanymton said:


> £8-10 is about average for a main course for me, so it's  not really cheap. Cheap to me would be about a fiver.


You can only get fast food for that price


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 19, 2017)

How do I explain death of our cat to my two-year-old? | Eva Wiseman



> *How do I explain the death of our cat to my two-year-old?*




**


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 19, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> How do I explain death of our cat to my two-year-old? | Eva Wiseman
> 
> 
> 
> **


My brain initially read that as 'how do I explain the death of my two year old to our cat?'


----------



## crossthebreeze (Feb 19, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> My brain initially read that as 'how do I explain the death of my two year old to our cat?'


I have actually had to explain a person' s death to a cat before. 
Also a rabbits death to another rabbit. 
Well,  help them through the grief process anyway.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> You can only get fast food for that price


Right. So fast food not eating out.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Right. So fast food not eating out.


not proper eating out, no


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> not proper eating out, no


Ok. So food at a wetherspoons? Where's that stand?


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Ok. So food at a wetherspoons? Where's that stand?


disappointing, and to be avoided. 
to me eating out means going to a restaurant and being served by waiters. so fucking Nandos doesnt' count


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> disappointing, and to be avoided.
> to me eating out means going to a restaurant and being served by waiters. so fucking Nandos doesnt' count


Perhaps you could define restaurant for the future avoidance of doubt


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Perhaps you could define restaurant for the future avoidance of doubt


somewhere that serves meals and has table service


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> somewhere that serves meals and has table service


Yeh. Wetherspoons. Nandos. Greasy spoon. Wimpy. Pizza Hut.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. Wetherspoons. Nandos. Greasy spoon. Wimpy. Pizza Hut.


You have to go to the bar at wetherspoons. 
But the others aren't proper restaurants. Will have to assess this on a case by case basis from now on. But not here.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> You have to go to the bar at wetherspoons.
> But the others aren't proper restaurants. Will have to assess this on a case by case basis from now on. But not here.



You don't get table service at Nandos either


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2017)

J Ed said:


> You don't get table service at Nandos either


i know, it's a disgrace! you have to serve yourself drinks and get your own cutlery! they do bring your food to the table, but that's not enough!


----------



## J Ed (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> i know, it's a disgrace! you have to serve yourself drinks and get your own cutlery! they do bring your food to the table, but that's not enough!



I've only been once but came away from Nandos thinking that it is v expensive for what you get


----------



## emanymton (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> somewhere that serves meals and has table service


McDonald's then?

McDonald's to introduce table service at 400 UK restaurants


Edit - McDonald's have always been called restaurants.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2017)

emanymton said:


> McDonald's then?
> 
> McDonald's to introduce table service at 400 UK restaurants
> 
> ...


They claim many things. 
Maybe the litmus test here should be: would you take someone on a date there? No, then it's not a proper restaurant.


----------



## emanymton (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> They claim many things.
> Maybe the litmus test here should be: would you take someone on a date there? No, then it's not a proper restaurant.


I believe Nando's is quite popular for dates. Christ knows why though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> They claim many things.
> Maybe the litmus test here should be: would you take someone on a date there? No, then it's not a proper restaurant.


You're in no way snobbish I see


----------



## J Ed (Feb 19, 2017)

emanymton said:


> McDonald's then?
> 
> McDonald's to introduce table service at 400 UK restaurants
> 
> ...



I went to a McDonalds with big signs that said TABLE SERVICE last week, I was sat there an hour because I was waiting for someone and had to pass some time. During that hour I didn't see anyone get served at their table.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2017)

emanymton said:


> I believe Nando's is quite popular for dates. Christ knows why though.



Nothing says romance like chicken cooked in a microwave.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 19, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> My brain initially read that as 'how do I explain the death of my two year old to our cat?'



This may help: Explaining Death to the Dog




(It's actually not a bad short story collection. I bought it because of the title.)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2017)

I was wrong to defend Jeremy Corbyn. He has betrayed us over Brexit | Ed Vuilliamy



> I did vote to remain in Europe, expecting the result, but was surprised by Corbyn’s reticence between xenophobia and internationalism. I’ve lived on the continent, felt deracinated all my life, get by in three European languages and enjoy encounters that arise from practising them in Britain. I hoped the Labour party would choose internationalism over xenophobia.



My my, aren't you special. 



> Corbyn’s – and most of his party’s – abrogation has contributed to a national culture whereby Brexit is less democratic decision than monolith. “Will of the people!”: we hear it from Labour too (though not its former leader, in his latest estimable effort), less democratic than fascistic, cudgel for anyone who dares suggest we betray not just Britain – never mind Ireland – but Europe and internationalism.



Wait, is the cudgel being used by the betrayers or against the betrayers? And are the betrayers leave voters, remain voters, Labour, the government, what? Enough with all this Brexit stuff, can't we just hear more about you?



> A tangent: I worked much of last year in Colombia, on a peace deal to end the world’s longest war, an initiative of President Juan Manuel Santos, who said: “My advisers asked me, ‘Are you willing to expend your political capital to do this?’ I said, ‘Yes. It would be worse to get to the end of my life and think I had the opportunity and didn’t take it.’” Imagine the Labour (or Tory) leadership thinking like that. You can’t, because they couldn’t. Santos narrowly lost a plebiscite, but believed the matter too important to accept it as conclusive. Millions filled the squares, defying the result; Santos reworked the accord and passed it through Congress. The peace perseveres.



Corbyn can't 'rework' anything because he's not in government, and in any case there's nothing to rework because brexit was plebiscite first details later, if at all. You can't rework a no into a yes. And for more than a few people the EU's habit of ignoring referenda and national elections and doing what the hell it wants anyway is a major reason they voted to leave it in the first place.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> They claim many things.
> Maybe the litmus test here should be: would you take someone on a date there? No, then it's not a proper restaurant.



I took someone to pizza hut on a date once. And we legged it without paying


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 19, 2017)

'felt deracinated'- is that another way of saying 'I don't see colour'?

cos if so...


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 19, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> 'felt deracinated'- is that another way of saying 'I don't see colour'?
> 
> cos if so...


Is that even a word??


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 19, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> 'felt deracinated'- is that another way of saying 'I don't see colour'?
> 
> cos if so...



Yeah I never heard a black person call themselves 'deracinated' for some reason...


----------



## emanymton (Feb 19, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I went to a McDonalds with big signs that said TABLE SERVICE last week, I was sat there an hour because I was waiting for someone and had to pass some time. During that hour I didn't see anyone get served at their table.


I've been to one where you order using a self service kiosk, and they then being the food to your table.


----------



## stavros (Feb 19, 2017)

Dead woman wore clothes shocker.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2017)

stavros said:


> Dead woman wore clothes shocker.




> Kensington Palace reframes Diana’s story, from the tale of a tragic princess to that of an empowered modern woman who shaped her identity.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 20, 2017)

emanymton said:


> I've been to one where you order using a self service kiosk, and they then being the food to your table.



Weird, how do they know what table you are sitting at?


----------



## YouSir (Feb 20, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Kensington Palace reframes Diana’s story, from the tale of a tragic princess to that of an empowered modern woman who shaped her identity.​



I thought it was the concrete underpass that shaped her identity?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2017)

YouSir said:


> I thought it was the concrete underpass that shaped her identity?


She never got her head round it


----------



## emanymton (Feb 20, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Weird, how do they know what table you are sitting at?


Its split into 'zones' you pick your zone when ordering then leave your receipt on the table. The zones are quite large but not so big that you would get more than a couple of people waiting for food at any one time. I actally thought it worked quite well to be honest.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 21, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> My brain initially read that as 'how do I explain the death of my two year old to our cat?'


----------



## brogdale (Feb 21, 2017)

> A month from now, the assembled financiers will sip champagne and nibble canapés to celebrate the 40 years Morgan Stanley – sponsor of the museum’s American Dream exhibition – has had a presence in the UK.
> 
> But as it toasts its past on 22 March, Morgan Stanley will also be asking critical questions about its future in the UK. When Theresa May triggers article 50 – likely to happen within days of the event – she starts the two-year Brexit process that will help determine how banks shape their operations in the UK over the next 40 years, and whether the City can retain its dominance as Europe’s biggest financial centre and a go-to location for major international banks.





> The City of London – which has faced heavy criticism for financial risk-taking – now finds itself dealing with the consequences of someone else’s gamble. The crown jewel of Britain’s economy is poised to become a key test of the prime minister’s Brexit strategy, and when the UK triggers article 50, major City employers are expected to roll out contingency plans that could lead to them moving parts of their operations outside the UK.



"crown jewel of Britain’s economy"


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 22, 2017)

No one should demand the closure of galleries – even for far-right artworks

Johnathon Jones in classic wanker liberal defense of "free speech" for nazis.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> ​
> "crown jewel of Britain’s economy"


None of the work done in the city is necessary or indeed socially useful, with the exception of the cultural organisations there - libraries, archives etc


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 22, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> No one should demand the closure of galleries – even for far-right artworks
> 
> Johnathon Jones in classic wanker liberal defense of "free speech" for nazis.


Do you hear that?


No, not that - _that_?


Yes? You hear it now?


That's the sound of a shutter on the front of a politically dubious gallery being repeatedly rammed down onto the skull of Jonathan Jones, again and again, forever and ever, for all eternity.





NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL ART


----------



## mauvais (Feb 22, 2017)

I don't think Jonathan Jones has ever had a valid opinion about anything. They say a stopped clock is right twice a day but I think Jonathan Jones' has a shit-covered cuckoo living in it that sticks its head out at those moments and squawks loudly about why elitist art critics are relevant and how it's quarter past cunt.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 22, 2017)

I don't think he means any of it. He's a professional troll.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 22, 2017)

If he were doing that, fair play to him, he'd be a career-sized _Monkey Dust_ segment. He's not though, he's just a big arse.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 22, 2017)

mauvais said:


> If he were doing that, fair play to him, he'd be a career-sized _Monkey Dust_ segment. He's not though, he's just a big arse.



I don't know. Some of the shit he says is so stupid he has to be trolling.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 22, 2017)

This is the guy who said that Palmyra should not be rebuild and we should just leave it to lie in a ruin. And that museums should charge so only people who can appreciate them can go. Nobody would be that dumb surely


----------



## mauvais (Feb 22, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> This is the guy who said that Palmyra should not be rebuild and we should just leave it to lie in a ruin. And that museums should charge so only people who can appreciate them can go. Nobody would be that dumb surely


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 22, 2017)

No, he is actually a real person, he's just a "free thinker".


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 22, 2017)

Timely LOL:


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2017)

This actually looks like an ok article, but... a piece discussing the dominance of Oxford PPE graduates in politics and the media, written by one Andy Beckett (Modern History, Oxford). You couldn't make it up.

PPE: the Oxford degree that runs Britain

great opening, mind:


----------



## NoXion (Feb 23, 2017)

Is it my imagination, or do increasingly fewer Guardian articles allow comments these days?


----------



## belboid (Feb 23, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Is it my imagination, or do increasingly fewer Guardian articles allow comments these days?


 Yup, they started restricting them about three (?) months ago


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Is it my imagination, or do increasingly fewer Guardian articles allow comments these days?


yeh because people would point out how shit they are

even effete and ineffectual liberals sometimes take action when they're continually called shit


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2017)

killer b said:


> This actually looks like an ok article, but... a piece discussing the dominance of Oxford PPE graduates in politics and the media, written by one Andy Beckett (Modern History, Oxford). You couldn't make it up.
> 
> PPE: the Oxford degree that runs Britain
> 
> great opening, mind:


yeh cos no one's ever pointed this out before...

...except one ian bone some years ago

fucking guardian johnny come-late-lies.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 23, 2017)

killer b said:


> This actually looks like an ok article, but... a piece discussing the dominance of Oxford PPE graduates in politics and the media, written by one Andy Beckett (Modern History, Oxford). You couldn't make it up.
> 
> PPE: the Oxford degree that runs Britain
> 
> great opening, mind:


Isn't Andy Beckett a poster on here?


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2017)

I dunno.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Isn't Andy Beckett a poster on here?


it's doubtless where he gets the best stories from.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 23, 2017)

killer b said:


> I dunno.


I was told he was a crystal that helps tell the time when I posted that I was reading that book of his about the 70s


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2017)

It's not a bad piece anyway. Is his book any good?


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 23, 2017)

killer b said:


> It's not a bad piece anyway. Is his book any good?


I never finished it


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2017)

killer b said:


> It's not a bad piece anyway. Is his book any good?


didn't he do pinochet in piccadilly? i thought that was a reasonable read when i read it about 17 years ago


----------



## killer b (Feb 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I never finished it


that's how we roll.

*clicks 'new posts'*


----------



## belboid (Feb 23, 2017)

Ruff weather: have your pets been affected by Storm Doris?


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 25, 2017)

Just what we need. After the intervention of a widely loathed psychopath and alleged former Labour leader, the opinion of a man who couldn't even get past his ludicrously unsuitable brother to the front of the queue.

David Miliband: Labour's move to the left is a mistake

Why don't these people realise what they really mean is 'me not joining the Conservative Party was a mistake'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Just what we need. After the intervention of a widely loathed psychopath and alleged former Labour leader, the opinion of a man who couldn't even get past his ludicrously unsuitable brother to the front of the queue.
> 
> David Miliband: Labour's move to the left is a mistake
> 
> Why don't these people realise what they really mean is 'me not joining the Conservative Party was a mistake'?


it was not a mistake, as they joined the labour party having made the political calculation that their oxbridge education would see them rise, as scum so often does, to the top. in the tory party they would have faced too much competition to succeed.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> it was not a mistake, as they joined the labour party having made the political calculation that their oxbridge education would see them rise, as scum so often does, to the top. in the tory party they would have faced too much competition to succeed.



Yes, fair point. Shame there can't be some kind of arrangement where they leave and have the Lib Dems instead though. It doesn't take long to rise to the top of what? twelve people.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 25, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Yes, fair point. Shame there can't be some kind of arrangement where they leave and have the Lib Dems instead though. It doesn't take long to rise to the top of what? twelve people.


9


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> 9



I was estimating 3 others who are keeping their powder dry for now by not declaring their allegiance publicly.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 26, 2017)

*Mathematician Eugenia Cheng: ‘Yes, I am an anarchist!’*

She's not.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 27, 2017)

brogdale said:


> *Mathematician Eugenia Cheng: ‘Yes, I am an anarchist!’*
> 
> She's not.


No, she isn't.  She describes being an academic more than anything, for the most part they're not anarchists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 27, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> No, she isn't.  She describes being an academic more than anything, for the most part they're not anarchists.


i think you had to be there


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you had to be there
> View attachment 101238



Crazy sense of humour, these anarchists.


----------



## Sue (Feb 27, 2017)

Just going to leave this here.

'This is why this mix-up mattered more than a bit of onstage awkwardness. What some people saw in this mistake was again a cultural bias against black art, unconscious though it may be. Some saw a conspiracy. Some saw the biggest award of the night undermined. This is hardly a paranoid reading when we keep seeing award ceremonies where black artists lose – Adele winning best album over Beyoncé at the Grammys, or the debacle of the Brits which has grime artists perform as though domesticated pets but will not reward them.'

The Oscars mix-up matters because this night was always about racial bias | Suzanne Moore


----------



## belboid (Feb 27, 2017)

Sue said:


> Just going to leave this here.
> 
> 'This is why this mix-up mattered more than a bit of onstage awkwardness. What some people saw in this mistake was again a cultural bias against black art, unconscious though it may be. Some saw a conspiracy. Some saw the biggest award of the night undermined. This is hardly a paranoid reading when we keep seeing award ceremonies where black artists lose – Adele winning best album over Beyoncé at the Grammys, or the debacle of the Brits which has grime artists perform as though domesticated pets but will not reward them.'
> 
> The Oscars mix-up matters because this night was always about racial bias | Suzanne Moore


Yes, I read that immediately wondered 'what the fuck is she on about?'


----------



## Sue (Feb 27, 2017)

Dp


----------



## Sue (Feb 27, 2017)

belboid said:


> Yes, I read that immediately wondered 'what the fuck is she on about?'



I specially like the use of 'some people' then 'hardly a paranoid reading' and using Beyoncé with only 22 Grammys to her name as an example of someone experiencing cultural bias at the Grammys.


----------



## stethoscope (Feb 28, 2017)

"The Guardian view on George W Bush: a welcome return"


----------



## Artaxerxes (Feb 28, 2017)

Unfortunate headline conjunctions


----------



## J Ed (Feb 28, 2017)

I am a marmalade millennial


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 28, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I am a marmalade millennial


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 28, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> "The Guardian view on George W Bush: a welcome return"


yeh yesterday's genocidal maniac is tomorrow's elder statesman


----------



## Artaxerxes (Feb 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh yesterday's genocidal maniac is tomorrow's elder statesman




I'll just go fetch that picture of Thatcher and Pinochet.


----------



## mather (Feb 28, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Is it my imagination, or do increasingly fewer Guardian articles allow comments these days?





belboid said:


> Yup, they started restricting them about three (?) months ago



I have also noticed that they do this to articles which you could say are politically 'sensitive' such as articles dealing with the Ukraine, Saudi Arabia etc...


----------



## NoXion (Feb 28, 2017)

mather said:


> I have also noticed that they do this to articles which you could say are politically 'sensitive' such as articles dealing with the Ukraine, Saudi Arabia etc...



I could understand the Ukraine ones, I can see those ones attracting Putinbots like flies to shit. But Saudi Arabia? Do they have wealthy backers from there or something?


----------



## bimble (Feb 28, 2017)

mather said:


> I have also noticed that they do this to articles which you could say are politically 'sensitive' such as articles dealing with the Ukraine, Saudi Arabia etc...


It's at least a couple of years since any comments were allowed on the Guardian under articles relating to israel-palestine.


----------



## mather (Feb 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh yesterday's genocidal maniac is tomorrow's elder statesman



The new liberal consensus. You can bomb and invade countries at will and kill hundreds of thousands (at least) innocent people in the process but as long as you 'act' presidential and stay within the political establishment's accepted contours of discourse, you get a pass.


----------



## belboid (Feb 28, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I could understand the Ukraine ones, I can see those ones attracting Putinbots like flies to shit. But Saudi Arabia? Do they have wealthy backers from there or something?


Gets full of racist shit in two minutes.


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 1, 2017)

More than politics, Theresa May’s true strength is her grasp of British culture | Rafael Behr

Rafael Behr, ladies and gentleman. Rafael Behr.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 6, 2017)

Laura Marling: 'I had no identity. I was socially bankrupt'

Marling quit music and became a yoga instructor. But now she’s back. She talks about falling in love with friends – and why everything’s about sex


----------



## J Ed (Mar 7, 2017)

Alternatively title could be: Feminism, basically just buying stuff and liking the good celebs while vocally disliking the bad celebs

Emma Watson on Vanity Fair cover: 'Feminism is about giving women choice'


----------



## J Ed (Mar 7, 2017)

Good celebs: Emma Watson, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Donald Trump (12 years in the future), Beyonce

Bad celebs: Bernie Sanders (forever), Jeremy Corbyn, Katie Hopkins (maybe), Donald Trump (right now)

Remember to stay frosty and consume the right things!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 7, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Good celebs: Emma Watson, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Donald Trump (12 years in the future), Beyonce



Lena Dunham. Got to watch Girls or you don't count.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 7, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Good celebs: Emma Watson, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Donald Trump (12 years in the future), Beyonce
> 
> Bad celebs: Bernie Sanders (forever), Jeremy Corbyn, Katie Hopkins (maybe), Donald Trump (right now)
> 
> Remember to stay frosty and consume the right things!


But consumption is activism?


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 7, 2017)

Rafael Behr, again folks!

A new party of the centre? It makes fixing Labour seem easy | Rafael Behr

And just who represents this "centre" ground?



> why not something new? On the face of it, there is a vacancy for a party of the centre, straddling the liberal wing of the Tory party and New Labour in exile





> A new movement will struggle to catch the popular imagination if its most famous patrons are Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, George Osborne and Nick Clegg.





Did he say, Geroge Osborne is "centre"?

Anybody else giving up on British politics?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 10, 2017)

12 year old subs?


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 10, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Lena Dunham. Got to watch Girls or you don't count.


I can't find the link, but she was going around telling everyone that she voted for HC in the New York Democratic primaries.

Some journo on Vice checked the electoral roll, and discovered that she's not a registered Democrat - meaning she could not have voted for Hillz in the primaries.

So she had Vice sack said journo.

I think the phrase for a person like that is "nasty piece of work".


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 10, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> I can't find the link, but she was going around telling everyone that she voted for HC in the New York Democratic primaries.
> 
> Some journo on Vice checked the electoral roll, and discovered that she's not a registered Democrat - meaning she could not have voted for Hillz in the primaries.
> 
> ...



Quick googling and that story - or at least that version of events - only comes up in 'unusual' sources. There's an article disputing that version of events as well.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 10, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Quick googling and that story - or at least that version of events - only comes up in 'unusual' sources. There's an article disputing that version of events as well.


I think I read it on Jezebel.com


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 10, 2017)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 10, 2017)

I'm not registered with the Green party but I'm pretty sure I voted for the cunts in 2015. 


(look its a Tory safe seat and the Labour guy looked about 12 years old, at least I got a leaflet from the Greens)


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 10, 2017)

*Philip Hammond’s top five jokes during budget speech *
Philip Hammond’s top five jokes during budget speech – video

_Top _five, no less.

Comic genius and financial wizard #GuardiangoesfullTory


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 10, 2017)

.


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 10, 2017)

.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 10, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I'm not registered with the Green party but I'm pretty sure I voted for the cunts in 2015.
> 
> 
> (look its a Tory safe seat and the Labour guy looked about 12 years old, at least I got a leaflet from the Greens)


Aye, but these allegations against Dunham are more like claiming to have voted in an internal Green party leadership election when you're not a member.


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 10, 2017)

+it wasn't the voting for Hillary. It was the lying about it. She couldn't have voted for Hilary without being a registered with the Democrats.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 10, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I'm not registered with the Green party but I'm pretty sure I voted for the cunts in 2015.


Not in a _primary_ you didn't


----------



## agricola (Mar 11, 2017)

Nick Cohen, with several hundred words on why its all your fault:



> If I had been writing a year ago, I would have concluded with wet words on the need for liberal societies to examine their faults. We must, I would have said with a pious air, understand why we have gone so badly wrong that men like these can come to power. And of course we should.
> 
> But concerned platitudes about the need to redress liberal failures miss that Putin, Trump, Farage, Assange and their many imitators are not always brainwashing their followers in a Chomskyan fashion. Their admirers positively welcome their tearing up of the old rules on honesty in public discourse, their contempt for facts, for human rights, for foreigners and all others who can be defamed by a demagogue on the make. They want a strongman who can pummel his enemies. They are entertained by his brags and impressed by how well he cheats. Many of the men among them revel in a leader who can boast about grabbing pussy or will pass a law allowing them to beat their wives. Many of the women want a real man in charge.
> 
> As I keep saying, the problem is not the liars, it is the millions who want to be lied to.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 11, 2017)

agricola said:


> Nick Cohen, with several hundred words on why its all your fault:


"Liberalism is great but some people seem not to think so. I have heard the phrase 'the Propaganda Model', but I have not even wikipediaed it because it is obviously wrong. It is wrong and Chomsky is a communist and liberalism is great and the problem is that people are just shit. Also liberalism is great."


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 11, 2017)

agricola said:


> Nick Cohen, with several hundred words on why its all your fault:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The _Obbo_ has millions of readers?!


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 11, 2017)




----------



## Shechemite (Mar 12, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> +it wasn't the voting for Hillary. It was the lying about it. She couldn't have voted for Hilary without being a registered with the Democrats.



She claimed that info was out of date and she was registered with dems at the time. 

Did she 'get him sacked'? What's this based on?

She's a cunt no doubt


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 13, 2017)

La Viner takes her hammer to the fairground mugometer, manages to hit 545,000 

Thank you for your support, which is more important now than ever | Katharine Viner


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 13, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> View attachment 102067


_Shit _. . . writes itself dude.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 13, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> _Shit _. . . writes itself dude.


Turd party politics


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 13, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Turd party politics


As the tenth Feces on Feuerbach reminds us. . .


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 13, 2017)

Stool of the bourgeoisie


----------



## gosub (Mar 13, 2017)

BBC interview hijacked by children prompts social media debate

A man giving he expertise on Korea, from home,  on telly.   Why would you need a nanny when working from home?  Aren't you more likely to end up marrying a Korean if that your area of expertise


----------



## stockwelljonny (Mar 14, 2017)

This morning - "Amal Clooney’s maternity wardrobe - More important than genocide?"

Well, its a fair question, and it is an awfully nice frock.


----------



## campanula (Mar 14, 2017)

Dim-wittedly, needing help on links, i have been unable to post up the direst peak guardian rubbish ' I am 35 and love gardening. Deal with it'.
The usual solipsistic crap with not even a shred of insight into the reasons why there are so few young gardeners (clue - FE, housing, capital and the usual raging snobbery which afflicts so much professional horticulture). Instead the back-patting and self-congratulatory tone of the utter prick.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 15, 2017)

I’m 35 and I love gardening. Deal with it


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 15, 2017)

emanymton said:


> I’m 35 and I love gardening. Deal with it



Yep, that's one smug motherfucker!


----------



## campanula (Mar 15, 2017)

Thank you, emanymton. Anything which involves soil and spades, no problem. If a computer is involved, I turn into a total panicking fool.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 17, 2017)

emanymton said:


> I’m 35 and I love gardening. Deal with it



'I like a thing a lot of people like, including people my age and younger but slip me a few quid and I'll find a way to make myself look special for it.'

Coming soon 'I like chips, aren't I interesting?'


----------



## Celyn (Mar 17, 2017)

I helped my friend paint a bit of skirting board once and it was all so matey and life-enhancing, you know? Then we had beer but not just any beer.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 17, 2017)

Well played, _The Times_ picture editor...

Taxpayers are funding extremism (£)


----------



## stavros (Mar 17, 2017)

It's not entirely clear whether this is tongue-in-cheek or not; 
*Put my phone away at the school gates? But then I’d have to engage with my child *


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 17, 2017)

stavros said:


> It's not entirely clear whether this is tongue-in-cheek or not;
> *Put my phone away at the school gates? But then I’d have to engage with my child *



Quite often they're looking at their phone because their work has started and they're responding to or sending emails. Don't blame parents blame our work culture.


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 19, 2017)

So this what passes for journalism in the Observer. He addresses his own readership directly opening with,



> As supporters of Jeremy Corbyn read the _Observer_, could the rest of you talk among yourselves why I speak to them directly?



Slags them off and closes,



> In my respectful opinion, your only honourable response will be to stop being a fucking fool by changing your fucking mind.



Wisely, the Observer has not allowed CiF.

Don’t tell me you weren’t warned about Corbyn | Nick Cohen


----------



## TopCat (Mar 19, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> So this what passes for journalism in the Observer. He addresses his own readership directly opening with,
> 
> Slags them off and closes,
> 
> ...



Yeah the Guardian and Observer get on their high horse deleting CIF comments that are mildly critical and let this loathsome shit swear at all and sundry.


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 19, 2017)

TopCat said:


> Yeah the Guardian and Observer get on their high horse deleting CIF comments that are mildly critical and let this loathsome shit swear at all and sundry.



Precisely! Remember this sort of thing?

The way we use language in politics matters | Will Hutton
Andrew Marr 'very worried' by tone of Scottish independence debate
It’s not too late for the tone of this referendum to change | Archie Bland


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 19, 2017)

TopCat said:


> Yeah the Guardian and Observer get on their high horse deleting CIF comments that are mildly critical and let this loathsome shit swear at all and sundry.


They've turned comments on now. Presumably it would be quite all right to call Nick Cohen a fucking fool who should stop writing such fucking rubbish.

I think he's making up for last weekend where he only mentioned Corbyn once.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Mar 19, 2017)

Let the slagging fest commence.  This could be quite amusing.....
Cohen is a complete arse.


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 19, 2017)




----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 19, 2017)

I merely quoted Mr. Cohens own words above and had my post removed. The comments are now closed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> I merely quoted Mr. Cohens own words above and had my post removed. The comments are now closed.


Good work


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 19, 2017)

Fastest comment closing ever.


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 19, 2017)

Pathetic, isn't it?


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 19, 2017)

George Osborne’s new role means we may find ourselves agreeing with him


----------



## cantsin (Mar 20, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> I merely quoted Mr. Cohens own words above and had my post removed. The comments are now closed.



ever increasing ammount of closed comments it seems, especially if you ever question the journo's motives/background etc  etc, however politely you do so


----------



## mikey mikey (Mar 20, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> George Osborne’s new role means we may find ourselves agreeing with him



I see the New Statesman is joining the chorus. _All in it together._



Sadiq Khan and George Osborne's unlikely friendship


----------



## Brainaddict (Mar 20, 2017)

In which people use the comments section to point out that much of the article is false: The Riverbed exhibition: photographs of a secret Spanish mountain commune

A couple of other points on this: they are very mediocre photos. I wonder who the photographer was friends with at Guardian HQ?

There is a huge interest in documenting unusual communities. More than there is interest in living in them, I sometimes think. It's not always clear what the purpose of the documentation is. There could have been a good article in some reflection on that, but it's easier to do another boring 'look at the hippies' piece isn't it?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 24, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ukrainians are worse. They eat _salo_ (salted pork fat).



It's like the last days of Sodom and Gomorrah


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> In which people use the comments section to point out that much of the article is false: The Riverbed exhibition: photographs of a secret Spanish mountain commune
> 
> A couple of other points on this: they are very mediocre photos. I wonder who the photographer was friends with at Guardian HQ?
> 
> There is a huge interest in documenting unusual communities. More than there is interest in living in them, I sometimes think. It's not always clear what the purpose of the documentation is. There could have been a good article in some reflection on that, but it's easier to do another boring 'look at the hippies' piece isn't it?


if someone said to me 'who do you know who could take some photos of a secret spanish mountain commune?' the first thought to come to mind is 'stanley edwards'.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

No words.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 102946
> 
> No words.


4 words: up against the wall


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> 4 words: up against the wall


Certainly this one...


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Certainly this one...



I have never seen a placard with music on before


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I have never seen a placard with music on before


No; I'm presuming its _"An die Freude", _after a few Nun's Delights I can't really focus clearly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> No; I'm presuming its _"An die Freude", _after a few Nun's Delights I can't really focus clearly.


Yes it is


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 102946
> 
> No words.




I don't get it


----------



## J Ed (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Certainly this one...




What's the music? Ode to joy?


----------



## J Ed (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Certainly this one...




Wow







EUro-fanatic pussy hats...


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

J Ed said:


> What's the music? Ode to joy?


According to 'hawk-eye' Pickman's model* ; yes, it is.

*see above!


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> I don't get it


I'll accept that it could have been (marginally) more hilarious if '_Edward_' had been '*Tarquin*', but I still regard it as a minor classic.


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 102946
> 
> No words.



Looks a bit like this guy with the same name from the European Investment Bank...






I mean, it couldn't be. Could it?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Looks a bit like this guy with the same name from the European Investment Bank...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Top work!


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 25, 2017)

Aye, good work steph.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 25, 2017)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 25, 2017)

Alys Fowler: 'There is no such thing as coming out: it's a daily negotiation'

Getting on for 4,000 words - _four thousand words _ - and my big takeaway is:



> Wait, the _Guardian_ has a gardening correspondent?!


----------



## Sue (Mar 26, 2017)

brogdale said:


> No; I'm presuming its _"An die Freude", _after a few Nun's Delights I can't really focus clearly.


Nun's Delights? My mind's boggling...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 26, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 102946
> 
> No words.



I doubt he has either, given the truncated nature of his chin.  Probably has to communicate with BSL.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2017)

Sue said:


> Nun's Delights? My mind's boggling...





Spoiler: It's a local thing


----------



## mather (Mar 26, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> I doubt he has either, given the truncated nature of his chin.  Probably has to communicate with BSL.



Lol, harsh but funny!


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2017)

Dutiful reporting.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 29, 2017)

There's an article in today's edition about how Emma Thompson said she nearly stopped acting because of the pressure on female actors to be thin.

There's also an article describing how Val Kilmer is sending odd tweets out about Cate Blanchett in which they describe him as looking "like he ate Val Kilmer".

I mentioned this fact in the Comments on the Emma Thompson article and the cheeky fuckers deleted it.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 30, 2017)

How to cook the perfect miso ramen

tl;dr and your recipie is shit


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 30, 2017)

This truncated headline tickled me today.

 


(The no-fun full version ends 'discontent')


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 30, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> (The no-fun full version ends 'discontent')


----------



## J Ed (Apr 3, 2017)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 3, 2017)

IT'S ALL BERNIE'S FAULT, OBVS

The destruction of Hillary Clinton: sexism, Sanders, and the millennial feminists | Susan Bordo


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 3, 2017)

> Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party – not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.


----------



## bimble (Apr 3, 2017)

I went to a lecture last night organised by Guardian and chaired by their editor John Mulholland. Speaker was good (was author Yuval Harari) but the tone set by Mr Guardian relating to 'his' audience was grimly smug - he couldn't help himself making snide comments about brexit and getting knowing smug superior chortles out of the amazingly homogenous audience (must have been over a thousand people there, the imagined community of Guardian readers made flesh. When it came to questions he picked women over men (and announced that he was doing so) but must have been crushed to find that there wasn't one non white face in the auditorium.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2017)

when it comes time for me to do the much needed update on Dante's inferno, the above scenario is going to be one of the circles of hell


----------



## emanymton (Apr 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> when it comes time for me to do the much needed update on Dante's inferno, the above scenario is going to be one of the circles of hell


That might just make me embrace the lord and repent all my sins.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2017)

bimble said:


> I went to a lecture last night organised by Guardian and chaired by their editor John Mulholland. Speaker was good (was author Yuval Harari) but the tone set by Mr Guardian relating to 'his' audience was grimly smug - he couldn't help himself making snide comments about brexit and getting knowing smug superior chortles out of the amazingly homogenous audience (must have been over a thousand people there, the imagined community of Guardian readers made flesh. When it came to questions he picked women over men (and announced that he was doing so) but must have been crushed to find that there wasn't one non white face in the auditorium.


I'd rather see vanessa beeley speak.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2017)




----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2017)

Flogging arms to the Saudis and other unsavoury regimes -- Brexit innit.

This is what Brexit looks like: cosying up to brutal regimes | Owen Jones


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2017)

Sue said:


> Flogging arms to the Saudis and other unsavoury regimes -- Brexit innit.
> 
> This is what Brexit looks like: cosying up to brutal regimes | Owen Jones


Rather than "business as usual"


----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2017)

And more Brexit handwringing from Polly. ..

My generation fought to be free. What happened to us? | Polly Toynbee


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2017)

Sue said:


> And more Brexit handwringing from Polly. ..
> 
> My generation fought to be free. What happened to us? | Polly Toynbee


whining sdp tossbag:


> No, I know that’s not you Guardian readers, many of whom grow more radical as they age; but all those backward-lookers should know better than to bring down the Brexit shutters on the young.



classic polly, classic guardian.


----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> whining sdp tossbag:
> 
> 
> classic polly, classic guardian.


Abysmal as ever.


----------



## Yossarian (Apr 13, 2017)

Homepage today:


----------



## bimble (Apr 13, 2017)




----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 13, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Homepage today:
> 
> View attachment 104275


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 14, 2017)

Alliteration affreux:


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 14, 2017)

And the actual story is as disgusting as you'd expect:

Marine Le Pen: the estranged daughter tied to a very public life | profile

"A soft soapy sell would suit the Fuhrer well" to quote Graun cartoonist  Steve Bell.

Next week: Jean Luc Melenchon bites the heads off live chickens, and bays at the moon.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 14, 2017)

"This is where the comparison between Macron, Trudeau and Blair hits a wall. Canada has no history of colonising other countries. Britain dealt with decolonisation in a very different manner from France, which fought wars during that period. And France isn’t ready, it seems, to open a museum recounting the crimes of colonialism."

Christ almighty.

Emmanuel Macron carries the hopes of many – but maybe not enough | Natalie Nougayrède


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 14, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> "This is where the comparison between Macron, Trudeau and Blair hits a wall. Canada has no history of colonising other countries. Britain dealt with decolonisation in a very different manner from France, which fought wars during that period. And France isn’t ready, it seems, to open a museum recounting the crimes of colonialism."
> 
> Christ almighty.
> 
> Emmanuel Macron carries the hopes of many – but maybe not enough | Natalie Nougayrède



More on that stuff btw - not guardian bashing but macron and  'the past'.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 14, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Alliteration affreux:
> 
> View attachment 104383


Ils ont merdé la langue française


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 14, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Ils ont merdé la langue française


shrugs


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 14, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> More on that stuff btw - not guardian bashing but macron and  'the past'.


LRB was SDP back in the day, IIRC. They could listen in on FM into the AM, while taking R and R in their RV.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 14, 2017)

I'm here all week.


----------



## treelover (Apr 14, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> In which people use the comments section to point out that much of the article is false: The Riverbed exhibition: photographs of a secret Spanish mountain commune
> 
> A couple of other points on this: they are very mediocre photos. I wonder who the photographer was friends with at Guardian HQ?
> 
> There is a huge interest in documenting unusual communities. More than there is interest in living in them, I sometimes think. It's not always clear what the purpose of the documentation is. There could have been a good article in some reflection on that, but it's easier to do another boring 'look at the hippies' piece isn't it?



I spent a month in a mountain village near to Orgiva, but never went, do they organise the festival there?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 15, 2017)




----------



## billy_bob (Apr 16, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Homepage today:
> 
> View attachment 104275



Got their analysis of cause and effect back to front. Just for a change.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 16, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> I'm here all week.


Is that borrowed from Tim Farron's ansaphone message?


----------



## Sue (Apr 16, 2017)

Terrible, terrible piece from Kevin McKenna. There are points to be made about social/economic disadvantage and its impact on health/addiction. There are points to be made about religious schooling. But his points are fucking terrible. (I initially thought he was taking the piss but I don't think he is.)

'At the risk of being dismissed as a shallow cynic, may I venture to suggest that the Catholicism of the Buckfast monks and not their wine-making activities is what is distressing the secularists. Last month, it was revealed that Tommy Sheppard, one of the SNP’s most prominent Westminster MPs, had inadvertently lifted the lid on a sinister, well-funded and sub-democratic campaign to kill off Catholic schools in Scotland. At a Nationalist fringe event, promoting the Humanist Society Scotland’s Enlighten Up campaign, which aims to end mandatory religious representation on local authority education committees, Sheppard said the way to make education secular was to introduce it “bit by bit”."

Solve Scotland’s deep social ills, don’t target Catholicism | Kevin McKenna


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 16, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> And the actual story is as disgusting as you'd expect:
> 
> Marine Le Pen: the estranged daughter tied to a very public life | profile
> 
> ...



Melenchon, according to the Guardian:







On a slightly more serious note the Grauniad has never been a lefty or even especially liberal rag, really:

The Guardian's regressive history means that their bias against Corbyn should come as no surprise | EvolvePolitics.com


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 16, 2017)

Put a blonde wig on jlm and he would look a bit like that.


----------



## Rob Ray (Apr 17, 2017)

Well known expert on military brinkmanship against nuclear-armed dictators Matthew d'Ancona here, stroking one out to the idea of a dictatorial buffoon with silly hair getting all trigger happy with Kim Jong-un.


Liberals, demanding leftists be pacifist while fluffing right-wing hardmen wannabes since time immemorial.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 17, 2017)

Sue said:


> Terrible, terrible piece from Kevin McKenna



I did a bit of a double take there, because I thought you were talking about the



> Irish republican and former volunteer in the Tyrone Brigade and Chief of Staff of the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA)...the longest serving Chief of Staff of the IRA, serving from 1983-97



rather than the



> former deputy editor of the Herald and executive editor of the Daily Mail in Scotland



Which, TBF, does make more sense in this context.


----------



## Sue (Apr 17, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I did a bit of a double take there, because I thought you were talking about the
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tbf, not *all* his articles are terrible...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 18, 2017)

Under pressure, _Graun_ filth reveals true colours yet again:


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 18, 2017)

FFS, is there _anyone _alive on the entire planet except for Guardian staff who hears _any _news about _anything _and thinks 'I wonder what Tony Blair thinks about that?'


----------



## YouSir (Apr 19, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> FFS, is there _anyone _alive on the entire planet except for Guardian staff who hears _any _news about _anything _and thinks 'I wonder what Tony Blair thinks about that?'



Tony Blair.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 19, 2017)




----------



## billy_bob (Apr 19, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Tony Blair.



I bet he does it exactly like that, too -- in third person.


----------



## Mordi (Apr 19, 2017)

This Reuters bylined article on the universally popular but sadly all too rare phenomenon of cop on cop violence has the typical analysis.

"The controversial reform sets a minimum retirement age of 65 in a country where public sector employees work on average to 54 before retiring in a generous social security system that is the main cause of Brazil’s unsustainable budget deficit."
Sad state of affairs when not even murdering children in the Favela exempts you from the unelected neoliberal technocracy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2017)

Jeremy Corbyn is rushing to embrace Labour’s annihilation | Polly Toynbee



> Wrong, wrong and wrong again. Was ever there a more crassly inept politician than Jeremy Corbyn, whose every impulse is to make the wrong call on everything?



I think there has, yes


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 19, 2017)

stethoscope said:


>


Is the guy on the right from Thunderbirds or Stingray? Fair play on being able to hide the strings, though.


----------



## killer b (Apr 19, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Jeremy Corbyn is rushing to embrace Labour’s annihilation | Polly Toynbee
> 
> 
> 
> I think there has, yes


does Lewisham East in 1983 spring to mind?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2017)

killer b said:


> does Lewisham East in 1983 spring to mind?


massive lack of self awareness ennit. I bet if you posted that ^^ in the comments it'd be whipped away swiftly


----------



## agricola (Apr 19, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Is the guy on the right from Thunderbirds or Stingray? Fair play on being able to hide the strings, though.



the strings are hidden in the suit, holding him securely to earth:


----------



## The Boy (Apr 19, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I did a bit of a double take there, because I thought you were talking about the
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You still got closer than I though, cos I thought they were talking about hypnotist Paul McKenna.  Been a long week...


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 19, 2017)

agricola said:


> the strings are hidden in the suit, holding him securely to earth:


Time to end the disastrous democratic experiment.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 19, 2017)

Does Tim Farron think gay sex is a sin? Who cares? | David Shariatmadari



			
				Gruniad said:
			
		

> The Liberal Democrat leader was asked if he takes the Bible literally on homosexuality. So long as it doesn’t inform his politics, it doesn’t matter



Anybody else, the Guardian would be having a field day.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 19, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Does Tim Farron think gay sex is a sin? Who cares? | David Shariatmadari
> 
> 
> Anybody else, the Guardian would be having a field day.





> If you discount the homophobic campaign against Peter Tatchell in 1983, they’ve usually been way ahead of the curve when it comes to LGBT rights.



In the circumstances, that's a pretty big ‘if’!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2017)

' love the sinner, while hating the sin?'

the line trotted out by every earnest, nice and non violent christian. You're still a homophobe m8.


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 19, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Does Tim Farron think gay sex is a sin? Who cares? | David Shariatmadari
> 
> 
> Anybody else, the Guardian would be having a field day.



'Does Corbyn think gay sex is a sin? HOMOPHOBE!!!!'


----------



## agricola (Apr 19, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Does Tim Farron think gay sex is a sin? Who cares? | David Shariatmadari
> 
> 
> Anybody else, the Guardian would be having a field day.



No-one will ever beat that for Peak Guardian, its even worse than that "Lego discriminates against the disabled" article was.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 19, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Does Tim Farron think gay sex is a sin? Who cares? | David Shariatmadari
> 
> 
> Anybody else, the Guardian would be having a field day.


Fucking hell, that's pathetic even by their standards. The idea that they'd give anyone else a pass on such rubbish is ludicrous. Two faced LibDem cunts.


----------



## The Pale King (Apr 19, 2017)

'We're all sinners' some more than others though, right Tim?


----------



## mather (Apr 19, 2017)

Nothing compares to the sin of being a Liberal Democrat.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 21, 2017)

Their ‘Bristol expert’ Stephen Fucking Morris yet again:



> This is a constituency of contrasts. Wells was walking his dog, Sonny, in leafy Clifton, just down the road from Brunel’s magnificent suspension bridge. But the seat also includes some of Bristol’s deprived and bohemian neighbourhoods – places such as Easton, which is home to artists, eco-warriors, dreamers and a good many people struggling to eke out a living.



Anything but the Tories: Bristol West voters weigh up their options

He's clearly using a random quote generator_...leafy Clifton...deprived and bohemian...artists, eco-warriors, dreamers..._


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2017)




----------



## JTG (Apr 21, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Their ‘Bristol expert’ Stephen Fucking Morris yet again:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whole article is Guardian AF. Still can't wrap my head around Clifton woman - lifelong Labour, likes JC but voting Tory this time

At least they didn't misspell Easton as "St Pauls" like so many other articles on inner city Bristol have done


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 104922



That's got to be deliberate liberal-hater-baiting. If it's meant in earnest, they've gone beyond parody.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 22, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> That's got to be deliberate liberal-hater-baiting. If it's meant in earnest, they've gone beyond parody.


So you think it's designed to provoke a Seville War among readers?


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 22, 2017)

The author is just being an Aragon bastard. Just wants to Basque in the envy of the poor readers.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> So you think it's designed to provoke a Seville War among readers?


Looks like that's a Dundeel.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> So you think it's designed to provoke a Seville War among readers?



It's certainly aiming to Formentera certain level of antagonism. I'll leave it that or I'll overdo the puns Andalucia interest.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 22, 2017)

Can someone come up with one for Santiago de Compostela?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Can someone come up with one for Santiago de Compostela?


Stantiago


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's certainly aiming to Formentera certain level of antagonism. I'll leave it that or I'll overdo the puns Andalucia interest.


Navarre mind


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's certainly aiming to Formentera certain level of antagonism. I'll leave it that or I'll overdo the puns Andalucia interest.


You bring up things like this so you can basque in the attention


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 22, 2017)

Sorry Picky, but you got there late.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 22, 2017)

Alicante win them all, can he?


----------



## emanymton (Apr 22, 2017)

Put just £40 a week aside to enjoy a happy retirement

Just £40 a week (as the article helpfully points out this is just 3 coffees from Pret each day), I'll start Monday.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 22, 2017)

emanymton said:


> Put just £40 a week aside to enjoy a happy retirement
> 
> Just £40 a week (as the article helpfully points out this is just 3 coffees from Pret each day), I'll start Monday.



What planet are they living on? Are they suggesting we _make our own coffee_ or something? My staff are busy enough already


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2017)

No shit, sherlock


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 22, 2017)

emanymton said:


> Put just £40 a week aside to enjoy a happy retirement
> 
> Just £40 a week (as the article helpfully points out this is just 3 coffees from Pret each day), I'll start Monday.


Based on 2 people a week putting £40 each aside, and assumes they will still be together and sharing living costs nearly 30 years later. 

A person on their own would have to save £80 a week, no mention of that in the article.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 23, 2017)

Salivating.


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 23, 2017)

'The walks give clarity': how Wales hike helped PM decide on next step



> Theresa May’s walks around Dolgellau gave her the space to decide to call the general election that took the UK by surpris



Take a hike.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 23, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> That's got to be deliberate liberal-hater-baiting. If it's meant in earnest, they've gone beyond parody.



Actually..

I’m concerned that my children are no longer employable



> *The dilemma *My ex-husband and I have always encouraged our children to pursue their talents and dreams. We supported their learning throughout school and university; we have never pressured them towards any particular career and have always encouraged extracurricular activities.
> 
> Following in their father’s footsteps, they have now acquired two buy-to-let properties. The rental yield has been disappointing, with most of the money consumed by upkeep on the property, or petrol money back and forth to the Midlands, where their investments are located. They speak about building multi-million pound property portfolios and devote time to social enterprises in Cambodia and the developing world. Any scepticism on my part is inevitably met with anger and accusations that I am jeopardising the venture by affecting their “mindset”.
> 
> It is now over two years since either of my children undertook salaried work. Neither keeps a regular schedule, and I worry they are losing the skills to market themselves. I need a way to broach the subject, which won’t drive a wedge between us or cause my lovely children to lose heart.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 23, 2017)

Landlords surprised that properties require maintenance shocker. How very guardian.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 23, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Actually..
> 
> I’m concerned that my children are no longer employable



If I was Ms Frostrup I would not have been able to resist suggesting a couple of pistol shots to the back of their heads.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2017)

'followed in their fathers footsteps' like landlordism is a craft stands out a bit.


----------



## seventh bullet (Apr 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> 'followed in their fathers footsteps' like landlordism is a craft stands out a bit.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 23, 2017)

"Having supported our children in becoming parasites with no actual skills to speak of, we are concerned that they've become parasites with no actual skills to speak of."


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 23, 2017)

Mariella's musings on revolution were a nice touch.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Mariella's musings on revolution were a nice touch.


Also slagging off Ed Sheeran.


----------



## xenon (Apr 23, 2017)

WTF?  Just... What.  How did they even get the mortgage?  Oh right, supported, AKA,  Bank Rolled and encouraged their dreams, to become rentier bastards.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 23, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Actually..
> 
> I’m concerned that my children are no longer employable




I just saw this and was about to post it, only to see that an eagle-eyed cadre had got there already 

It's particularly impressive that Frostrup has managed to craft a piece of filler in which all concerned - literally everyone: letter-writer, letter-writer's children, letter-writer's ex-husband, everyone who ever knew the letter-writer or her family, Frostrup herself, anyone residing on the street in which Frostrup lives, every single person who frequents Frostrup's local Fresh & Wild, the guarantor for the loan that helped Frostrup's former yoga instructor open her own mini-chain of pop-up quinoa bars, the media organisation publishing this shit, and we the readers (even those who don't even pay for the privilege) - can deservedly be consigned behind the barbed wire on lifelong rock-breaking duties.

MARIELLA WE SALUTE YOU


----------



## yield (Apr 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> MARIELLA WE SALUTE YOU


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 26, 2017)

How  Guardian _special _reveal works:

Bristol's Colston Hall to drop name of slave trader after protests



> Bristol’s biggest concert hall is to drop the name of the slave trader Edward Colston from its name after protests and a boycott by musicians, the Guardian can reveal.



 


Colston Hall to be renamed for 2020 relaunch



> The Colston Hall will be renamed when it is relaunched in 2020, its boss has announced.
> 
> At a briefing on Wednesday morning, Louise Mitchell told members of the press the Bristol venue does not 'want an association' with slave trader Edward Colston.



+


----------



## rekil (Apr 26, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Curative retreats for sufferers of chronic Brexit fever


Brescape to Bruddhism in Brhutan. 

 

Tourists must pay $250 a day there.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 26, 2017)

Money put to good use refugee-ing and persecuting the Lhotshampa.


----------



## rekil (Apr 26, 2017)

This is not exactly a strong sell.


> In Thimphu, stay at Tashi Yoedling (doubles from £30), right by the Memorial Chorten. From its windows you can watch worshippers walking clockwise around the stupa.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2017)

This is real - right now


----------



## hot air baboon (Apr 27, 2017)

I thought the other one was Jo not Tom ?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 29, 2017)

Cohen coming out pro-LibDem puff piece. 


> You cannot demand respect from others. You can only earn it. You cannot force others to admire you, endorse your lifestyle and drop even private doubts about you. You can only persuade them to see what good there is in you. And if you don’t know by now you that cannot compel others to love you, you never will. All you can do – and all you should want to do – is take the deal when a politician says: don’t ask if I respect you, ask if I respect your rights.


Nothing surprising in that but it is significant that not once in the piece is there even a nod to economic freedom.


----------



## agricola (Apr 30, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Cohen coming out pro-LibDem puff piece.
> 
> Nothing surprising in that but it is significant that not once in the piece is there even a nod to economic freedom.



A thousand words along the lines of "Judge not lest ye be judged, except that vile bastard Corbyn".


----------



## Orang Utan (May 1, 2017)

wtf is this
More bank holidays? Oh please, give us a break | Eva Wiseman
another turkey voting for xmas


----------



## Sue (May 1, 2017)

Which can't we all just get along? 

'Labour, Greens, Liberal Democrats, SNP, SDLP, the Women’s Equality party, all of these are on the same path. Those of us who bounce between them, sometimes joining, sometimes lapsing, are on the same path. 

Apparently intractable constitutional disagreements – membership of the EU, Scottish independence – sound important in the mouths of people who talk about national destiny, but are not important set against core political beliefs: that climate change is real, but human ingenuity can stop it; that pooling resources for world-class education and heathcare for everybody is not a drag or even a duty, but an honour; that if you can’t afford food and shelter on a full-time wage, you’re not the problem; that everybody will spend some part of their lives economically unproductive, and it’s better to support rather than blame each other.'

We’ll be sneered at, but a progressive alliance can win | Zoe Williams


----------



## redsquirrel (May 1, 2017)

Yeah, saw that earlier. More pathetic crap trying to paper over the very real cracks.

But Sue we can't attack these people, don't you know that's the problem with the left?


----------



## stethoscope (May 3, 2017)

Not that we need reminding that Monbiot is a cock, but anyway....






Calling true conservatives: stop the fake ones from destroying Britain | George Monbiot



			
				Gruaniad said:
			
		

> There is no incompatibility between an inclusive conservatism and the defence of public investment, public services, workers’ rights, gender equality and the interests of ethnic minorities. Indeed, I find it hard to see how anyone can love people without also loving the living world that gave rise to us, or can love our civilisation without loving what remains of those that came before.
> 
> If Theresa May wins, hers will not be a normal Conservative government, even by the weird and ever-shifting standards of 21st century normality. Through the powers she grants herself, it threatens to become a maelstrom of destruction on behalf of the party’s funders and associates. Unlikely as our prospects are, we must do all we can to stop her from regaining office. *Conservatives arise, and defend your country from those who abuse your name.*


----------



## mikey mikey (May 3, 2017)

Preaching to an absent choir of quite another church.


----------



## cantsin (May 4, 2017)

Hadley Freeman, bravely "fighting neo fascism" from behind her keyboard, condemning those who were out on Monday confronting the FN on the streets :


----------



## billy_bob (May 4, 2017)

cantsin said:


> Hadley Freeman, bravely "fighting neo fascism" from behind her keyboard, condemning those who were out on Monday confronting the FN on the streets :




tbf you had us at 'Hadley Freeman'


----------



## 8115 (May 7, 2017)

Meet the potter chefs making their own plates


----------



## J Ed (May 7, 2017)

8115 said:


> Meet the potter chefs making their own plates



I first read this as Harry Potter chefs which would make for another very guardian article


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 9, 2017)

Ohh. Emm. Gee.


----------



## Sue (May 9, 2017)

JK Rowling and Joanna Trollope are arguing on Twitter. Who cares? The Guardian natch and in truly turgid hero worshipping style too.

'Rowling, surely, sees writing as a social practice, deeply embedded in a wider political and economic network. For her the job, the duty even, of an author is to get her hands dirty by speaking truth to power....

"This is not someone who is using Twitter because she wants to be Cheryl Cole or Kim Kardashian. If Rowling has a literary ancestor it would be Charles Dickens, a writer for whom just writing was never enough. After a hard day of authorship he would scuttle off to help run a hostel for fallen women, or dive into a factory to see conditions for himself.'

This JK Rowling-Trollope Twitter storm is at heart a free speech issue | Kathryn Hughes


----------



## rekil (May 9, 2017)

Sue said:


> After a hard day of authorship he would scuttle off to help run a hostel for fallen women, or dive into a factory to see conditions for himself.'


Or fantasise about genociding India.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 10, 2017)

Sue said:


> "This is not someone who is using Twitter because she wants to be Cheryl Cole or Kim Kardashian. If Rowling has a literary ancestor it would be Charles Dickens, a writer for whom just writing was never enough. After a hard day of authorship he would scuttle off to help run a hostel for fallen women, or dive into a factory to see conditions for himself.'


Urgh, pass the sick bucket.


----------



## Bakunin (May 10, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> tbf you had us at 'Hadley Freeman'



True. A second-rate hack in a pretend-leftie paper.

Never been anything else and likely never will be.


----------



## hot air baboon (May 10, 2017)

Sue said:


> JK Rowling and Joanna Trollope are arguing on Twitter. Who cares? The Guardian natch.....



it's Ali vs Foreman for the chatterati


----------



## redsquirrel (May 11, 2017)

As always when it actually comes to the fight liberals know which side of they're on.


> The Institute for Fiscal Studies has used an election briefing note to warn politicians against abandoning cautious increases in the minimum wage in favour of dramatic changes that risk costing jobs. Just because there has been no negative impact of the minimum wage in the past doesn’t necessarily mean there will be no impact in the future, the IFS says. It is particularly concerned about Labour’s plans, which would raise the cost of employing more than 7m workers by 15%. This is a very big increase at a time when employers are struggling with the effects of the falling pound on their fuel and raw material costs, and when Brexit has made the business climate for the next two to three years so uncertain. It seems improbable that a 62% increase in the minimum wage for 18-20 year olds – which is what Labour’s plans suggest – would not cost jobs.


----------



## fractionMan (May 11, 2017)

8115 said:


> Meet the potter chefs making their own plates



I await the companion piece:_ Potters making their own dinners._


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Excellent article. Apologies if this has already been posted.
Media Lens - ‘Meltdown’: The Guardian’s Jonathan Freedland Writes Jeremy Corbyn’s Obituary



> The sneering reference to an 'online Corbynista army' reveals the smug condescension at the core of Freedland's mindset. From his superior perspective, there is simply no need to take seriously the ample evidence of intense media and political antagonism towards Corbyn and his policies; likewise, the barrage of opposition from many Labour MPs whose views often lie to the right of their own constituents and local party members. As Graham Bash of _Labour Briefing_ observes, when Corbyn won the Labour leadership in September 2015:
> 
> 'the parliamentary Labour party shamefully refused to accept the party's overwhelming verdict, briefed against Corbyn, forced a second leadership contest, acted as a party within a party and feared a Corbyn government more than another Tory government.'


----------



## rekil (May 11, 2017)

He's trying this shit here now is he. I see the pair of truthseekers at Media Lens post articles from RT and lizard fighters 21stcenturywire on their facebook. #makeuthink


----------



## J Ed (May 11, 2017)

copliker said:


> He's trying this shit here now is he. I see the pair of truthseekers at Media Lens post articles from RT and lizard fighters 21stcenturywire on their facebook. #makeuthink



Medialens used to be decent iirc now they mostly seem to exist to RT the canary


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Nevermind. Here's a real journalist telling reader to fuck off.


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2017)

Avocado Hand

Trying to have their avocado and eat it here, with the 'pretending it's frivolous nonsense but still considering it worthy of column inches'.


----------



## petee (May 15, 2017)

Washing your hair with mineral water or champagne – what lengths would you go to?

and these people ask me to give them money.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2017)




----------



## killer b (May 16, 2017)




----------



## Sprocket. (May 16, 2017)

They will have us all tugging our forelock soon, on our knees thanking our lords and masters for allowing us to work.
Bastards.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

Fucking hell. Then again maybe the Tories could be part of the progressive alliance too.


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

killer b said:


>


Why did they do these things - what forced them to? Pathetic. I should be beyond being angry at this shit.


----------



## Santino (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Why did they do these things - what forced them to? Pathetic. I should be beyond being angry at this shit.


It's _nuance_.


----------



## Wilf (May 16, 2017)

killer b said:


>


Yeah, yeah - and Peel gave us the Irish Famine, Disraeli led us into several wars, Chamberlain gave us Appeasement and Heath was a nonce.


----------



## Wilf (May 16, 2017)

Santino said:


> It's _nuance_.


Nearly...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, yeah - and Peel gave us the Irish Famine, Disraeli led us into several wars, Chamberlain gave us Appeasement and Heath was a nonce.


no no, other than cyril smith we we're told that the kiddy fiddling only went as far up the food chain as light entertainment stars. I mean, it deffo wasn't going on amongst minor aristocracy and senior politicians and the clergy.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> no no, other than cyril smith we we're told that the kiddy fiddling only went as far up the food chain as light entertainment stars. I mean, it deffo wasn't going on amongst minor aristocracy and senior politicians and the clergy.



_minor _aristocracy


----------



## Sue (May 20, 2017)

'My son has his future planned and it doesn’t include university and a career. He’s waiting to inherit the house and become a landlord'

If I were her, I wouldn't be writing columns about how godawful my children are. I'd be wondering what the hell I did wrong along the way. (Saying that, I'm not sure she realises how godawful all this sounds.)

Why my grown up son wants to live at home for ever


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 20, 2017)

Sue said:


> If I were her, I wouldn't be writing columns about how godawful my children are. I'd be wondering what the hell I did wrong along the way.



Quite. This is Dowling-level shittery. Here she is talking about him a week ago:

With four adult children living at home, the chaos is bigger and louder


----------



## emanymton (May 21, 2017)

Sue said:


> 'My son has his future planned and it doesn’t include university and a career. He’s waiting to inherit the house and become a landlord'
> 
> If I were her, I wouldn't be writing columns about how godawful my children are. I'd be wondering what the hell I did wrong along the way. (Saying that, I'm not sure she realises how godawful all this sounds.)
> 
> Why my grown up son wants to live at home for ever


I think the view of the older son is interesting as well.


> After my MA is over, there’s no way I’m staying here being a freeloader


Nothing about independence or having his own space, just not being a freeloader.

Also


> “At least he’s thinking ahead,” says Ed says.


----------



## bi0boy (May 21, 2017)

Sue said:


> If I were her, I wouldn't be writing columns about how godawful my children are. I'd be wondering what the hell I did wrong along the way. (Saying that, I'm not sure she realises how godawful all this sounds.)



I reckon her columns are works of fiction.


----------



## Sue (May 21, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I reckon her columns are works of fiction.


I'd like to think so but I've actually met a few people like this IRL recently. Parents who have their adult kids living back with them. 

They've got the vague feeling their kids are taking the piss (for example, one has a son who's working for a bank in the city, he's moved his girlfriend in too, neither does any housework and they 'can't afford' to pay any rent) but seem to have no idea what to do about it. I find the whole thing astounding on lots of levels.


----------



## equationgirl (May 21, 2017)

Sue said:


> I'd like to think so but I've actually met a few people like this IRL recently. Parents who have their adult kids living back with them.
> 
> They've got the vague feeling their kids are taking the piss (for example, one has a son who's working for a bank in the city, he's moved his girlfriend in too, neither does any housework and they 'can't afford' to pay any rent) but seem to have no idea what to do about it. I find the whole thing astounding on lots of levels.


Aye, same here - parents working themselves into the ground whilst their two adult children AND their partners live in the house as well, no-one paying any contributions to the living costs of the household, but somehow take two foreign holidays a year...


----------



## Idris2002 (May 21, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I reckon her columns are works of fiction.


Didn't they have a similar column with an even worse shower of twats a few years back? 

I think Mrs Magpie said they were a real family from around her patch, and notorious as a brood of arseholes.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 21, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Didn't they have a similar column with an even worse shower of twats a few years back?
> 
> I think Mrs Magpie said they were a real family from around her patch, and notorious as a brood of arseholes.


I think you might be talking of Julie Myerson
Julie Myerson - Wikipedia


----------



## Idris2002 (May 21, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I think you might be talking of Julie Myerson
> Julie Myerson - Wikipedia


I think you're right!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 21, 2017)

Sue said:


> I'd like to think so but I've actually met a few people like this IRL recently. Parents who have their adult kids living back with them.
> 
> They've got the vague feeling their kids are taking the piss (for example, one has a son who's working for a bank in the city, he's moved his girlfriend in too, neither does any housework and they 'can't afford' to pay any rent) but seem to have no idea what to do about it. I find the whole thing astounding on lots of levels.



I remember Greebo describing in detail the sense of shame she felt on moving back into her parents' house after poly, even though it was only for 2 months.
I was 15 when I stopped living with my parents.  However bad shit got for me, I'd never have moved back in with them, because even living rough combined with sofa-surfing was better than that.


----------



## equationgirl (May 21, 2017)

I moved back for a couple of months between jobs once and couldn't wait to move out again. 

I Don't know how people think it's OK to live there indefinitely and on top of that not to financially contribute to the household expenses, especially if they're working.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 21, 2017)

I've lived with my parents a few times, quite enjoy it, as I like them and like spending time with them. Shit, it's just him now.
I contribute by cooking, washing up and buying some of the food but I'm on JSA at the mo, so can't contribute more certainly would pay rent and bills once I had a job.
I don't understand why it's seen as such a bad thing if you get on with them, especially when they get older and you need to be near anyway. 
Lots of families all live together elsewhere in the world!


----------



## hot air baboon (May 23, 2017)




----------



## redsquirrel (May 29, 2017)

Not the worst article they've ever done but worth a mention for the increasing love affair of liberals with fucking Merkel. 

Angela Merkel shows how the leader of the free world should act


> What an extraordinary woman. There are no problems, she says, only “tasks” to be solved, as she sits rapidly texting in meetings. Refusing to see herself as a female leader, she prefers to think of herself as part of a class of political heavyweights. Increasingly she is in a class of her own and watching her, one thought comes to mind: this is what strong and stable actually looks like.


Pass the fucking sick bucket


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2017)

read the other day that she gott in because she was untouched by a dodgy money scandal- other members of her party had been taking dodgy money from an arms dealer- schaubles was the prince-in-waiting but he was implicated in the scandal and so...step forward merkel. What is it with politicians and dirty money?


----------



## agricola (May 29, 2017)




----------



## SE25 (May 30, 2017)

True colours coming out.


----------



## campanula (May 30, 2017)

My youngest (aged 30) and his partner share my home (although I don't own it)...and it is actually OK (mostly). The older 2 rent privately (none of them are in any sort of position to buy a property)...and have also had to return back home (fleetingly) a couple of times. My middle daughter lived at home until my grandchild was 18months. Anyway, this is a situation which...just is...and we try to make the best out of it (living in an expensive town while myoffsoprings wages are vastly adrift from the market average for home owning or even renting - without paying well over half of their meagre wages...and in truth, it is cheaper for 4 adults to share a house than 2. Housework is fairly equitable although I do the lion's share of cooking (god knows why as I am an awful, reluctant cook). It is worse for them than me, I think...and there are parent/child dynamics which are hard to move on from - living with parent's leads to a sort of arrested development - it is not an ideal...and yet, historically, the single generation nuclear family is a recent invention and is largely tangled up in political, social and culltural demands which are, at this moment, somewhat dysfunctional on a lot of levels...and yet, advantages can be had. It is a big issue with no simple solutions.


----------



## stethoscope (May 30, 2017)

agricola said:


>




Perhaps those (still) Guardian defending urbanites would like to comment?!


----------



## Orang Utan (May 30, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Perhaps those (still) Guardian defending urbanites would like to comment?!


I'm not a defender, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be outraged about on that page?


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 30, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm not a defender, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be outraged about on that page?




I'm guessing the shopping addiction and the "buy cute shoes!" article?


----------



## JTG (May 30, 2017)

Have they called for a vote for anybody yet? When do they usually do this kind of thing?


----------



## Rob Ray (May 30, 2017)




----------



## redsquirrel (May 30, 2017)

JTG said:


> Have they called for a vote for anybody yet? When do they usually do this kind of thing?


Not as far as I know (at least not explicitly), isn't it normally just a day or two before the election? 

I reckon it'll be a 'vote anti-Tory' this time.


----------



## JTG (May 30, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Not as far as I know (at least not explicitly), isn't it normally just a day or two before the election?
> 
> I reckon it'll be a 'vote anti-Tory' this time.


A call for clever people to vote cleverly. How clever.


----------



## stethoscope (May 30, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm not a defender, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be outraged about on that page?



Not outraged, but rather those here that still defend the Guardian as being some sort of 'liberal left' paper when that's the best angle it can come up with from last night's debate.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 30, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Not outraged, but rather those here that still defend the Guardian as being some sort of 'liberal left' paper when that's the best angle it can come up with from last night's debate.


Ah, I thought it was an interview with Corbyn


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

heres a front page advert for paddy ashdowns new book. Says he recons its 1930s germany again. the pranny
Ashdown 'horrified' by parallels between UK and 1930s Germany


----------



## redsquirrel (May 31, 2017)

Ashdown said:
			
		

> “The way that we have retreated from internationalism to ugly nationalism in Britain. The way that we have retreated from international trade to protectionism. The sense that somehow or other democracy is failing.


How dreadful that the proles can't see the wonders of international trade and parliamentary democracy.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> How dreadful that the proles can't see the wonders of international trade and parliamentary democracy.


their internationalism. Funny the uses that word gets put to isn't it? Hillary Benn used it to mean 'being active in NATO'


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

> , I started the #TheresaMayGIFs hashtag on Twitter which abounds with comic gifs expressing May’s terrible performance.



Owen Jones ignites the fires of real change


----------



## emanymton (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> heres a front page advert for paddy ashdowns new book. Says he recons its 1930s germany again. the pranny
> Ashdown 'horrified' by parallels between UK and 1930s Germany


The 1930s in slow motion.


----------



## Combustible (Jun 2, 2017)

Brexit denial: confessions of a passionate remainer | Ian McEwan 


An incredibly self unaware article 


> What then of the remainers, hobbled by a fatal attraction to rational arguments rather than emotional appeals?



It's a good job remainers like him don't rely on emotional appeals like those nasty leavers.


> We are a vast, peaceable crowd, 16.1 million strong, thoughtful, unhappy, leaderless, with meagre political representation. We don’t threaten rape. As far as I’m aware, no remainer has murdered a Brexiter. Our church, perhaps to its detriment, is not so broad. It is moody, tearful, complaining, sometimes cogently, even beautifully. In general, until now perhaps, it seems to have stoically accepted the process.





> That the country, like a depressed teenage self-harmer, takes out a razor to scour a forearm, and now contemplates its own throat?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

McEwan is a grade A cunt, Iraq war defending Blairite wanker.


----------



## mather (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> McEwan is a grade A cunt, Iraq war defending Blairite wanker.



Indeed, what he said about the elderly all dying off was disgusting. Had he said the same about blacks, gays jews etc... could you imagine the outrage that would cause, but no the elderly and working class are fair game, liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.

Can't wait for the cunt to drop dead!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

mather said:


> Indeed, what he said about the elderly all dying off was disgusting. Had he said the same about blacks, gays jews etc... could you imagine the outrage that would cause, but no the elderly and working class are fair game, liberal hypocrisy at it's finest.
> 
> Can't wait for the cunt to drop dead!


pref at a young age


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 2, 2017)

It's Labour!

Er... lucky Labour. With that kind of firepower behind you...

Sarcasm aside, though, I suppose it won't do Corbyn any harm. Should persuade the votes out of a few more of the appalling kind of people who still think the paper is worth listening to.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

cunts


----------



## mauvais (Jun 2, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's Labour!
> 
> Er... lucky Labour. With that kind of firepower behind you...
> 
> Sarcasm aside, though, I suppose it won't do Corbyn any harm. Should persuade the votes out of a few more of the appalling kind of people who still think the paper is worth listening to.


Perhaps they've turned Machiavelli up to 11 and wilfully brought forth their own talismanic power as past wielded on behalf of the Lib Dems, Remain, Hillary... Not fucking likely though since falling on their own sword for their beliefs would require them to remember where they last had either the sword or their beliefs and then thrash out through a series of conflicting op-eds as to which end is the pointy one.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

mauvais said:


> Perhaps they've turned Machiavelli up to 11 and wilfully brought forth their own talismanic power as past wielded on behalf of the Lib Dems, Remain, Hillary... Not fucking likely though since falling on their own sword for their beliefs would require them to remember where they last had either the sword or their beliefs and then thrash out through a series of conflicting op-eds as to which end is the pointy one.



I have no idea how they can possibly square this editorial stance with their two years of constant anti-Corbyn, anti-Labour propaganda.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I have no idea how they can possibly square this editorial stance with their two years of constant anti-Corbyn, anti-Labour propaganda.


Easy - they ultimately have to put their money on something and obviously their attempts to dress up Owen Smith etc as a workable horse have come to nought.

Somewhat surprisingly, they've catalogued their history of lacklustre, finally-forced-to-commit pronouncements in one handy place, right here: The Guardian’s leader line on every general election since 1918

"change has become unavoidable" (1992) probably being my favourite call-to-arms so far.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I have no idea how they can possibly square this editorial stance with their two years of constant anti-Corbyn, anti-Labour propaganda.



They will though, in endless pious comment pieces resolutely not mentioning the obvious eye-for-the-main-chance, pretend-we've-got-our-finger-on-the-pulse-of-the-left calculation that's led to it.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 2, 2017)

mauvais said:


> "change has become unavoidable" (1992) probably being my favourite call-to-arms so far.



Wow. That's a pretty sorry-arsed reactionary slogan


----------



## cantsin (Jun 2, 2017)

Callum Campbell ( yep, son of...) ....wasnt going to vote a month ago, now gone full Corbo :

I thought Labour was heading for disaster. Now I’m voting Corbyn | Calum Campbell

( still in this thread, cos Graun's stealthy move into more pro Corb territory over last month as they desperately chase an audience, is nauseatingly cynical )


----------



## cantsin (Jun 3, 2017)

And hey presto,after a year of low level liberal moaning vs Corbyn on all sorts of mainly
spurious grounds, highly paid " voice of the man on the street"  John Harris has suddenly had " an epiphany" a week out,  not at all related to more positive recent polls  etc

Corbyn shows there’s a new way of doing politics. Straight talking is back | John Harris


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

cantsin said:


> And hey presto,after a year of equivocation, low level liberal moaning vs Corbyn on all sorts of mainly
> spurious grounds, highly paid " voice of the man on the street"  John Harris has suddenly had " an epiphany" a week out,  not at all related to more positive recent polls  etc
> 
> Corbyn shows there’s a new way of doing politics. Straight talking is back | John Harris



Same with Helen Pidd as well.


----------



## campanula (Jun 3, 2017)

Helen fucking Pidd....oh fucking no - I have an especially dislike of this craven weasel (and her fucking expensive bikes...and the fucking 'Syrian'. Opportunist wankers.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 3, 2017)

campanula said:
			
		

> craven weasel


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 5, 2017)

I survived London Bridge and feel lucky. And angry. I cannot unsee what I saw | Anna Sergi


----------



## Smoking kills (Jun 5, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I survived London Bridge and feel lucky. And angry. I cannot unsee what I saw | Anna Sergi


Not a bad piece tbf.


----------



## inva (Jun 6, 2017)

saw this on twitter link


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

Michael White, yesterday.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

the editor of the new statesman agrees the graun has gone to shit btw.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2017)

a last minute swerve and a flurry of half approving articles and opinion pieces is hardly pavda is it

and somebody didn't tell Cohen the new line- he's still moaning on about corbyn


----------



## rekil (Jun 6, 2017)

Michael White reminds me of the pretentious cinema man in League Of Gentlemen.



Spoiler


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

using a sketch of yourself as your avatar is a sure sign of the wanker's wanker


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 6, 2017)

Rents down an average of 0.3% across the country - won't somebody think of the poor landlords?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Rents down an average of 0.3% across the country - won't somebody think of the poor landlords?
> 
> View attachment 108597


you never see "tenants squeezed as rents rise to yet another new high" do you?


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I survived London Bridge and feel lucky. And angry. I cannot unsee what I saw | Anna Sergi



They let you all out, police leading the way. The bar looks apocalyptic, the glass doors completely shattered, tables upside down, plates and glasses on the floor. Watch your step, if you can. You go outside. You see three corpses, covered with blankets. You see people in tears, some injured, while you are asked to move along, to abandon the scene as soon as possible. You admire the efficiency, and you are also mad at Theresa May and her policies when she was home secretary – a prevention strategy that seemed to demonise Muslim communities while increasing surveillance money and cutting police funding.


Smoking kills said:


> Not a bad piece tbf.



Really? Her first thought on seeing three corpses and not knowing what is going on is Theresa May's policies as Home Secretary? Give me a break.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Really? Her first thought on seeing three corpses and not knowing what is going on is Theresa May's policies as Home Secretary? Give me break.




I'm 99% sure thats just a load of bullshit she's pulled out to justify the article.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> They let you all out, police leading the way. The bar looks apocalyptic, the glass doors completely shattered, tables upside down, plates and glasses on the floor. Watch your step, if you can. You go outside. You see three corpses, covered with blankets. You see people in tears, some injured, while you are asked to move along, to abandon the scene as soon as possible. You admire the efficiency, and you are also mad at Theresa May and her policies when she was home secretary – a prevention strategy that seemed to demonise Muslim communities while increasing surveillance money and cutting police funding.
> 
> 
> Really? Her first thought on seeing three corpses and not knowing what is going on is Theresa May's policies as Home Secretary? Give me break.


people react to stress in different ways, bi0boy. but i must admit it is peculiar


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

/


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

Teresa May was perfectly happy to politicise the attack before the bodies were cold - I reckon it's ok for someone who was actually caught up in the attack to do the same.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 6, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> and somebody didn't tell Cohen the new line- he's still moaning on about corbyn



He's _Obbo_ not _Graun_ and so _completely different_


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 6, 2017)

Because what we need right now is a front page story promoting May's latest wheeze to avoid having to deal with reality.


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jun 7, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Rents down an average of 0.3% across the country - won't somebody think of the poor landlords?
> 
> View attachment 108597


The Tory magic money tree is dying :sadface:


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 8, 2017)

This from Simon Jenkins is just glorious. 



> Today is election day, and agony. I was brought up to treat the ballot as sacramental. That stubby pencil on its greasy string was democracy’s Excalibur, the magic sword that tamed the game of thrones, and won power for the people. If we dared ask my father how he voted, he would say men had fought and died for the secrecy of the ballot. He would not fail them.
> 
> At such times I envy the tribalists. I was one once. For the duration of the campaign, I became “we”. On election day we stopped arguing and prevaricating, and turned ourselves into a collective barmy army. We knew how we would vote, and the only pain lay in finding consolation for sometimes troubled consciences. Some of us would talk loftily about “reluctance” and “holding our nose”. That nose was made of toffee. There is no box on the ballot for half-votes.
> 
> Instead I now wander the electoral desert and see only the ruined citadels and burned-out villages of ancient wars. Where are the tribal leaders of old, who suddenly seem like giants? Their erstwhile followers are vagrant refugees, their dissolved loyalties so much drifting tumbleweed, caught by this or that passing wind. We can all do the politics of detestation and ridicule. But the ballot demands a yes. We must submit to the pain of choice.



Poor fellow, between this election column and the one explaining how he was one of the most oppressed groups of people in Britain (old white men) he's clearly just had a _terrible_ year.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 8, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> This from Simon Jenkins is just glorious.


'Kin ell, it's like something from a bad text adventure.

*You now wander the electoral desert and see only the ruined citadels and burned-out villages of ancient wars. Some tribal leaders are here.*

*>* EXAMINE TRIBAL LEADERS

*Their erstwhile followers are vagrant refugees, their dissolved loyalties so much drifting tumbleweed, caught by this or that passing wind.*

*>* USE STUBBY PENCIL ON GREASY STRING

*The magic sword tames the game of thrones. You hold in your hands Excalibur, the pencil of destiny. You trip over the string and are impaled on it. You are dead now. THE END.*


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

mauvais said:


> 'Kin ell, it's like something from a bad text adventure.
> 
> *You now wander the electoral desert and see only the ruined citadels and burned-out villages of ancient wars. Some tribal leaders are here.*
> 
> ...


'You read the scroll. Your nose is now made of toffee'


----------



## scifisam (Jun 8, 2017)

mauvais said:


> 'Kin ell, it's like something from a bad text adventure.
> 
> *You now wander the electoral desert and see only the ruined citadels and burned-out villages of ancient wars. Some tribal leaders are here.*
> 
> ...



That is brilliant.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 9, 2017)

Anyone want to bet on who's going to do the first wriggling backpedal article?


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 9, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Anyone want to bet on who's going to do the first wriggling backpedal article?


tbf, they endorsed Labour.

But no need to bet - it was Owen Jones 

Jeremy Corbyn has caused a sensation – he would make a fine prime minister | Owen Jones


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 9, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> tbf, they endorsed Labour.
> 
> But no need to bet - it was Owen Jones
> 
> Jeremy Corbyn has caused a sensation – he would make a fine prime minister | Owen Jones



Jones hasn't been sticking the boot in for two years though has he? He's been a bit critical occasionally but he's been their token 'balance'.

I'm thinking of the likes of Freedland who's done nothing other than regurgitate the same 'Corbyn = Shit' article since he was elected leader.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 9, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Jones hasn't been sticking the boot in for two years though has he? He's been a bit critical occasionally but he's been their token 'balance'.
> 
> I'm thinking of the likes of Freedland who's done nothing other than regurgitate the same 'Corbyn = Shit' article since he was elected leader.


Have you read the article? Some choice excerpts for you:


> But a note about Corbyn, and the leadership, too. I owe Corbyn, John McDonnell, Seumas Milne, his policy chief Andrew Fisher, and others, an unreserved, and heartfelt apology.





> journalists have suggested I should be knighted by the Tory party for my efforts.





> I wasn’t a bit wrong, or slightly wrong, or mostly wrong, but totally wrong. Having one foot in the labour movement, and one in the mainstream media, undoubtedly left me more susceptible to their groupthink.


And that's just from his 'apology'. How about this from 3 months ago?
Jeremy Corbyn says he’s staying. That’s not good enough | Owen Jones


> His policies are right but his leadership is clearly failing. General election defeat would be blamed on the left and mark the end of his progressive agenda


Here in January he criticises him again, for focusing on immigration, instead of the NHS. But it's a thinly-veiled remoaner article.
Labour has shifted focus away from the NHS crisis. For what? | Owen Jones


> That is not to ignore the failings of the Labour leadership. Corbyn originally stood for leader out of a sense of duty, to put policies on the agenda. His upper expectations were to win between 20 and 25% of the vote: he won nearly 60% instead, thanks to the ineptitude of his opponents and their lack of vision. The most experienced politician would have struggled against a concerted media offensive and a lack of parliamentary support, let alone a backbench rebel long consigned to the wilderness. The leadership made lots of mistakes that cut through. There was a collective failure of the left (the likes of me included): we have long trapped ourselves in a defensive posture and lacked a clear vision of our own, other than saying “stop!” to policies we didn’t like.
> 
> Political leadership means saying, here’s what’s wrong with society, here’s what our vision of what society is instead, here’s how we get there. It means hammering at key messages ad infinitum, backed up with policies that are indicative of where the party is coming from. It means speaking in an everyday language that resonates beyond politicos, and having lots to say to the average Briton who is neither poor nor well-off. This has been lacking, and Labour often seems missing from political debate



There's plenty more if you care to go look.

He's not been in out-and-out attack mode, like the rest of the media. But for someone in his position, with his claimed beliefs, he could have been more supportive.

Anyway, fuck him. His opinion is seemingly worthless now it's clear he'll go whichever way the wind is blowing.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 9, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Have you read the article? Some choice excerpts for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair enough - I don't actually read what he says I admit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> His opinion is seemingly worthless now it's clear he'll go whichever way the wind is blowing.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 9, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 108912


Sticking with the musical theme:

He's seems to me
That he's lives his life
Like a feather in the wind
Never knowing who to cling to
When the rain set in


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 9, 2017)

The lack of self awareness is amazing

The Sun and Mail tried to crush Corbyn. But their power over politics is broken | Suzanne Moore


----------



## rekil (Jun 9, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> _Having one foot in the labour movement,_


If you say so Owen. If we disagree are you going to call us homophobes again?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2017)

copliker said:


> If you say so Owen. If we disagree are you going to call us homophobes again?


He's anti/he's pro; he's yin/he's yang; he's Sith/he's Jedi; and it's all possible because he's a self-facilitating, automated invoicing, one-man opinions-for-all-seasons media machine.


----------



## mather (Jun 10, 2017)

Whilst many are happy with the success that Corbyn has achieved despite all expectations and hurdles, Deborah Orr is not.

What is there to rejoice about? Britain has just voted for irony | Deborah Orr

Typical Remoaner bollocks!


----------



## mauvais (Jun 11, 2017)

A decent article on their long running failure to predict:

www.middleeasteye.net/columns/the-guardian-elections-coverage-never-get-it-right-Jeremy-Corbyn-really-wrong-972873248


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 11, 2017)

It's going to tabloid size!


----------



## mauvais (Jun 11, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> It's going to tabloid size!


Makes this about the only prescient thing they've done recently: How the rightwing tabloids got it wrong


----------



## hash tag (Jun 12, 2017)

Guardian to go tabloid as it abandons Berliner presses in print deal with Trinity Mirror


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2017)

is this a money saving thing? theres a begging bowl at the end of every article now


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Guardian to go tabloid as it abandons Berliner presses in print deal with Trinity Mirror


oh that's a great pity. i'll have to start getting another paper for the cat tray.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> is this a money saving thing? theres a begging bowl at the end of every article now



Yeah spending £50m on presses in a format only used by you isn't terribly efficient — it's the equivalent of building a railway line with a different gauge to everyone else. I remember thinking when they switched over that it'd cause them trouble — no supplementary work coming in from other firms must mean a lot of unprofitable time idling. Trinity on the other hand picks up work from all over (including the Star).


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2017)

Etc etc 
Dump the Guardian!


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 12, 2017)

Polly says:


> *This is Corbyn’s moment: he’s rescued Britain from the chains of austerity*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is Corbyn’s moment: he’s rescued Britain from the chains of austerity | Polly Toynbee


----------



## killer b (Jun 12, 2017)

full of jewels that one.

I loved this: 

_The party should reconsider being ungenerous to the progressive alliance, where Green candidates stood down to help Labour, but not one Labour seat reciprocated. 
_
not one!


----------



## mather (Jun 12, 2017)

Why does the Guardian insist on having photo portraits for their journalists and writers? Having to read their crap is bad enough without seeing their smug, condescending faces.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 12, 2017)

mather said:


> Why does the Guardian insist on having photo portraits for their journalists and writers? Having to read their crap is bad enough without seeing their smug, condescending faces.


check out the Tom Watson byline photo. Looks like a 4channer


----------



## mather (Jun 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> check out the Tom Watson byline photo. Looks like a 4channer



I'm not really familiar with 4chan. I have never visited the site and have no intention of doing so based on the few things I have heard and read about it, it seems to be popular with weirdos/freaks/degenerates/perverts and the alt-right.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> check out the Tom Watson byline photo. Looks like a 4channer



I think he looks more like the Baron Harkonnen in specs.


----------



## mather (Jun 12, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I think he looks more like the Baron Harkonnen in specs.



Nah, Trump is Baron Harkonnen, both in looks and personality.


----------



## mather (Jun 12, 2017)

Tom Watson looks a bit like Wayne Knight, without being funny.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 12, 2017)

No, he looks like Nick Frost!


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 13, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 108912


I think this thread is gonna feel like home to me 

I hope this one hasn't been posted yet


----------



## petee (Jun 13, 2017)

just piling on at this point, but this from a blog i follow:

The Guardian Has A Crisis But Won’t Admit It…..


----------



## JTG (Jun 13, 2017)

killer b said:


> full of jewels that one.
> 
> I loved this:
> 
> ...


Bristol West was often mentioned in such discussion as the Greens' main target seat. The same Bristol West which was held by Labour already, saw the Green vote utterly collapse (they finished third, despite the Tories standing still) and Thangam Debonnaire re-elected with a thumping 37,000 majority and 66% of the vote.

Not really clear on why Labour should have stood down tbh


----------



## Supine (Jun 14, 2017)

BBC are reporting the Guardian is turning tabloid. 

Red top and tits out for the lads then!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2017)

Supine said:


> BBC are reporting the Guardian is turning tabloid.
> 
> Red top and tits out for the lads then!!!


Can't be red top, it's rarely more than semi-skimmed


----------



## Edie (Jun 17, 2017)

When my vegan children berate me for eating butter, I lash out



This has to be a pisstake.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2017)

muslim welfare house clearly, from map, less than 100m from finsbury park mosque


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 20, 2017)

It’s not just the UK that will benefit from Brexit. The EU will too | John Redwood

john redwood?


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 22, 2017)

Apparently struggling in the US

How The Guardian Lost America


----------



## belboid (Jun 22, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Apparently struggling in the US
> 
> How The Guardian Lost America


Hmm, not sure about the quality of research here:

"But Guardian US, many insiders believe, missed its core political opportunity in 2016 to align itself with the Bernie Sanders insurgency in the way its *British parent paper has long been linked with the UK Labour left*"


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 22, 2017)

yeh, I did snort at that comment


----------



## killer b (Jun 22, 2017)

As with the rest of the Graun's recent trevails, Rusbridger fucked it. Cameron to Kath Viner's May?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 23, 2017)

Corbyn’s Labour has done well. To win power it needs to do far better | Martin Kettle

Still flailing around after the last election but creeping back towards their natural position - that all the votes gained by Corbyn can be taken as read and a centrist approach (no need to define what that is but we all know who it is) will somehow gain the additional votes needed. 

Total bollocks but they'll get there soon enough.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 23, 2017)

killer b said:


> As with the rest of the Graun's recent trevails, Rusbridger fucked it. Cameron to Kath Viner's May?



A cruel assessment of Viner's sojourn in the big chair, but a fair one.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 23, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> I think this thread is gonna feel like home to me
> 
> I hope this one hasn't been posted yet




there's a 3 .15 vers of this as well, v comprehensive ( on other thread)


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2017)

Grenfell survivors were told to sign council form that 'could waive rights'

so the hue of one's skin trumps class for the guardian. can you imagine what they'd say if 'a team of white lawyers are supporting the survivors, many of whom are from similar backgrounds'?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 110010
> Grenfell survivors were told to sign council form that 'could waive rights'
> 
> so the hue of one's skin trumps class for the guardian. can you imagine what they'd say if 'a team of white lawyers are supporting the survivors, many of whom are from similar backgrounds'?



Yes, yes, but we all know that class is just another type of identity. And as an identity it is further down the hierarchy of oppression than others, such as skin tone, beard length and choice of sky god. You're also Hitler for even bringing this up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Yes, yes, but we all know that class is just another type of identity. And as an identity it is further down the hierarchy of oppression than others, such as skin tone, beard length and choice of sky god. You're also Hitler for even bringing this up.


teuchter seems to have nicked your login


----------



## petee (Jun 24, 2017)

this article:
‘Alcoholism continues long after you stop drinking': my 15 years sober

it says inter alia "Then I told the midwife: my husband is trying to kill me. My evidence was that he had brought me a tin of biscuits. This, then, was the comedown, and I was at the bottom of the curve. I must have said that the baby was not important to me, because my husband became angry and I became angry, and I told him I hated him and had never loved him."

the husband is nowhere mentioned again in the article, though his life too must have been eviscerated by the alcoholism. (full disclosure, my ex-wife drank herself into debt, and our marriage ended for that amongst other reasons.)

i wondered aloud (viz in the comments) how the husband had dealt with that.
removed for "violating community guidelines".


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 24, 2017)

petee said:


> this article:
> ‘Alcoholism continues long after you stop drinking': my 15 years sober
> 
> it says inter alia "Then I told the midwife: my husband is trying to kill me. My evidence was that he had brought me a tin of biscuits. This, then, was the comedown, and I was at the bottom of the curve. I must have said that the baby was not important to me, because my husband became angry and I became angry, and I told him I hated him and had never loved him."
> ...


I am very uncomfortable with calling a self destructive voice that existed before alcohol and continues to exist after it, "alcoholism". As I see are many people in the comments.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 24, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I am very uncomfortable with calling a self destructive voice that existed before alcohol and continues to exist after it, "alcoholism". As I see are many people in the comments.


I never had this "voice" - seems to me she had some pre-existing condition which you can't blame on the booze


----------



## petee (Jun 24, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I am very uncomfortable with calling a self destructive voice that existed before alcohol and continues to exist after it, "alcoholism". As I see are many people in the comments.



my ex-wife has issues beneath the alcohol consumption that are the real issue but as the psychiatrist whom i started seeing, after the marriage exploded, said, "you have to treat the alcohol before you can approach anything else." the writer herself says "Alcoholism is a strange condition. If you survive the drinking stage, and many don’t, it has relatively little to do with alcohol, which is merely the drug with which the alcoholic treats herself." nb: "and many don't."

my own point was that there are others whose lives are affected and even wrecked by the alcohol abuse _in itself_, in addition to whatever lies beneath it (borderlinism in the case of my ex). that's why there's ALANON. what i heard in those meetings from others left even me shattered. in the case of this article we know who those people are, but they are given almost no voice.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 24, 2017)

petee said:


> my ex-wife has issues beneath the alcohol consumption that are the real issue but as the psychiatrist whom i started seeing, after the marriage exploded, said, "you have to treat the alcohol before you can approach anything else." the writer herself says "Alcoholism is a strange condition. If you survive the drinking stage, and many don’t, it has relatively little to do with alcohol, which is merely the drug with which the alcoholic treats herself." nb: "and many don't."
> 
> my own point was that there are others whose lives are affected and even wrecked by the alcohol abuse _in itself_, in addition to whatever lies beneath it (borderlinism in the case of my ex). that's why there's ALANON. what i heard in those meetings from others left even me shattered. in the case of this article we know who those people are, and they are given no voice.



Is the author of the, admittedly strange, piece obligated to tell her readers about every single person that her alcoholism hurt?


----------



## mather (Jun 25, 2017)

Another shit opinion piece by the insufferable Nick Cohen. Why doesn't he follow on from the logic of his article and give up writing, it would spare us from having to read anymore of his crap.

Everywhere you see a dead end. Why protest?

Still it's kind of nice to see liberals and Remoaners becoming so depressed that some like this cunt are thinking of giving up politics altogether, they have dominated the political landscape for far too long. The middle class snobbery in that article is something to behold, such as this little gem:



> Their retreat will have a profound effect on the national culture. When rightwing newspapers say that “the elite” thinks Brexit voters are stupid, they speak truer than they know. Not just north London intellectuals, but scientists, technicians, academics, managers, civil servants, doctors – those who keep Britain working – believe the country has made a dreadful mistake. As events justify their scorn, their attachment to their country will weaken.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jun 25, 2017)

petee said:


> my own point was that there are others whose lives are affected and even wrecked by the alcohol abuse _in itself_, in addition to whatever lies beneath it (borderlinism in the case of my ex). that's why there's ALANON. what i heard in those meetings from others left even me shattered. in the case of this article we know who those people are, but they are given almost no voice.


The article says that - except for the drug-seeking behaviour in the labour ward - she hasn't drunk or taken drugs in 15 years, and she seems to have met her husband during this sobriety.
The piece is a personal account of self doubt/tendency to self-destructiveness that she has had her whole life whether she was drinking or not, and she also writes about how she has treated her work in an addictive way.  Its not an analysis of her marriage (and you know, maybe her husband would be uncomfortable about their marriage being written about - and it would be odd if she "spoke for" her husband anyway).  I don't think anyone would go away from reading the bit about the labour ward and period after the birth without thinking that her husband must have been having a hard time of it too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I never had this "voice" - seems to me she had some pre-existing condition which you can't blame on the booze



Same here.  I knew exactly why I wanted to be constantly drunk.  I didn't need an inner voice to tell me to do so, nor to absolve me of responsibility for my choice.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 26, 2017)

as, along with his pal Jonathan Haynes, he's probably the biggest w*nker currently on the The Guardian ( some feat, etc ) , putting this here for posterity's sake : ( his exchange with OJ, with screengrabs, v revealing) .


----------



## cantsin (Jun 26, 2017)

jeez...this Marty Robbins is a bit hardcore, even by Graun 2017 standards :

( please note that according to Penny Red and Helen Lewis, this was posted" in private" -  on Facebook, in full view of all - and therefore sharing it on twitter was "scummiest " of moves....Lewis is the partner of Jonathan Haynes, Robbin's online editor + sidekick at the Graun, and fellow entitled anti Corbyn militant )



and at risk of looking like the bitter obsessive (that I obvs am) , Jonathan Haynes,. the editor of the Graun online, tweeted this today  - so guess we can expect this to  expect this to be a grower at the  Graun now ( dual strategy, alongside the new + risible ' Go Corbo' approach)  , + very similar to the Anti Semitic one, ie : based on 'nastiness'( or abuse )  that is actually very hard to find :


----------



## killer b (Jun 26, 2017)

cantsin said:


> as, along with his pal Jonathan Haynes, he's probably the biggest w*nker currently on the The Guardian ( some feat, etc ) , putting this here for posterity's sake : ( his exchange with OJ, with screengrabs, v revealing) .



I had literally just come across Robbins a few minuted ago, as something he said on facebook is causing masses of hilarity on twitter right now... see below. Raging bell of the very worst kind.


----------



## killer b (Jun 26, 2017)

ha! snap.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 26, 2017)

it's enough to make me sympathise with the Khmer Rouge


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 26, 2017)

_“First they came for the self-satisfied data journalists, and I did not speak up...”_


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

liberal randism


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> it's enough to make me sympathise with the Khmer Rouge


pol pot meet kettle, i suppose


----------



## cantsin (Jun 26, 2017)

killer b said:


> I had literally just come across Robbins a few minuted ago, as something he said on facebook is causing masses of hilarity on twitter right now... see below. Raging bell of the very worst kind.



he's playing the ' irony amongst friends' card now....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 26, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> it's enough to make me sympathise with the Khmer Rouge


The angka has no need for your sympathy


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

That stuff above is literally what the real ideological alt-right believe. And they're probably more self-aware of the problems with this than this genius.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 26, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> The angka has no need for your sympathy



Angkar has as many eyes as a pineapple. It sees everything and does not make mistakes.


----------



## mather (Jun 26, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> “First they came for the self-satisfied data journalists, and I did not speak up...”



I wouldn't be speaking up, that's for sure. If anything I'd be cheering as they drag him away to the nearest prison camp or firing squad.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 26, 2017)

How arrogant do you have to be to even think that, never mind write it on the Internet for all to see...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> The angka has no need for your sympathy


Angka is an energy


----------



## killer b (Jun 26, 2017)

tbf he wrote it on the internet for people on his facebook friends list to see.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

killer b said:


> tbf he wrote it on the internet for people on his facebook friends list to see.


Meaning they all think like that and get the double pivot of the irony. The cunts.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 26, 2017)

killer b said:


> tbf he wrote it on the internet for people on his facebook friends list to see.


Still wrote it on the Internet though, should have realised it would be circulated.


----------



## killer b (Jun 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Meaning they all think like that and get the double pivot of the irony. The cunts.


oh, absolutely. He doesn't get a pass from me for accidentally letting us know what he thinks in private.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 26, 2017)

tbf, he raises at least one valid point. Imagine how good it would be to not know who Tim Farron is.


----------



## killer b (Jun 26, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Still wrote it on the Internet though, should have realised it would be circulated.


Why? I can think of a few things I've written on the internet (here...) that I both have no expectation would be circulated, and would be pretty embarrassing if it was. The porous public/private nature of social media means people often chat on places like here and FB as if they were private. Until something like this happens to you.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

Which is why i hate stewart lee.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 26, 2017)

Raheem said:


> tbf, he raises at least one valid point. Imagine how good it would be to not know who Tim Farron is.


Who?


----------



## cantsin (Jun 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Which is why i hate stewart lee.



?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

cantsin said:


> ?


This bloke says i was only being ironic amongst a private group of mates - the pivot being that all his mates know him and they think it too but it can't be proven. For Lee just replace private with public + an audience foe his mates- they're the private group.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> This bloke says i was only being ironic amongst a private group of mates - the pivot being that all his mates know him and they think it too but it can't be proven. For Lee just replace private with public + an audience foe his mates- they're the private group.



If you start from the premise that it WAS ironic and he was telling the truth, would him believing every single word change his online and professional output? A quick look through his articles and twitter account leads me to think no.

As for his mates, you can repeat the experiment with Helen Lewis.



I think we know the answer.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> If you start from the premise that it WAS ironic and he was telling the truth, would him believing every single word change his online and professional output? A quick look through his articles and twitter account leads me to think no.
> 
> As for his mates, you can repeat the experiment with Helen Lewis.
> 
> ...



Of course. And btw, she goes out with the best mate (and employer, i think) of the above ironic genius. And went all they all went to the same place as stewart lee.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 26, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> This bloke says i was only being ironic amongst a private group of mates - the pivot being that all his mates know him and they think it too but it can't be proven. For Lee just replace private with public + an audience foe his mates- they're the private group.



I haven't seen the full charge sheet against Stewart Lee, but hating a stand up comedian for being ironic in front of an audience seems a bit harsh.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)




----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)




----------



## cantsin (Jun 26, 2017)

Raheem said:


> I haven't seen the full charge sheet against Stewart Lee, but hating a stand up comedian for being ironic in front of an audience seems a bit harsh.



agreed, we need the charge sheet ( would like to not be adding Lee to the metaphorical gulag list tbh )


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

cantsin said:


> agreed, we need the charge sheet ( would like to not be adding Lee to the metaphorical gulag list tbh )


It's already there - look under L, 316th name down: Lee, Stewart


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 27, 2017)

killer b said:


>



Very good Cocaine? Or does this level of cuntery come naturally?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 27, 2017)




----------



## The Pale King (Jun 27, 2017)

Christ


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 27, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 110305


I've no idea, breckdale - what do you reggon?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 27, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> Grist


CFY


----------



## brogdale (Jun 27, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I've no idea, breckdale - what do you reggon?


Don't lead me on...I've bored everyone on here for 2 years by pronouncing it..._oligarchic neoliberal fundamentalism.
_


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 27, 2017)

brogdale said:


> _oligarchic neoliberal fundamentalism.
> _



Band name thread >>>>


----------



## brogdale (Jun 27, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Band name thread >>>>


Formed by disillusioned members of _Crème brûlée ?_


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 27, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Formed by disillusioned members of _Crème brûlée ?_


Glen Ponder and Debonair


----------



## J Ed (Jun 28, 2017)

Can Justin Trudeau’s socks bring peace to the world?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 1, 2017)

This fuckery:
Hospitals should stop asking for cash and focus on getting better


----------



## JTG (Jul 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> This fuckery:
> Hospitals should stop asking for cash and focus on getting better


Patients should stop asking for treatment and focus on getting better


----------



## Sue (Jul 1, 2017)

JTG said:


> Patients should stop asking for treatment and focus on getting better


Patients should just stop being ill.  Then they'll no longer be patients. Win win all round.


----------



## andysays (Jul 1, 2017)

Sue said:


> Patients should just stop being ill.  Then they'll no longer be patients. Win win all round.



Guardian "journalists" should stop writing such bullshit and just fuck right off.

That really would be win-win all round


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 1, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Don't lead me on...I've bored everyone on here for 2 years by pronouncing it..._oligarchic neoliberal fundamentalism.
> _


Onf still going strong but now on pub circuit in east anglia


----------



## cantsin (Jul 2, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Very good Cocaine? Or does this level of cuntery come naturally?



he's deffo on a natural one that Robbins


----------



## Raheem (Jul 3, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> This fuckery:
> Hospitals should stop asking for cash and focus on getting better



Before clicking, I naively assumed this would be about hospitals making sneaky charges, trying to flog you stuff while they're in there and sacking off the vistors' cafe in favour of a Burger King.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 3, 2017)

Helen Lewis tweeted about me a while back. She's a vile piece of shit.


----------



## eoin_k (Jul 3, 2017)

Jeremy Corbyn appoints clutch of unknowns to shadow front bench
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ints-clutch-of-unknowns-to-shadow-front-bench
You don't even need to read past the byline:


> Labour leader ignores prominent MPs willing to return including Angela Eagle, Chuka Umunna and Dan Jarvis.


----------



## JTG (Jul 3, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> Jeremy Corbyn appoints clutch of unknowns to shadow front bench
> You don't even need to read past the byline:


So, two experienced former MEPs and a shadow Scotland minister appointed from what is still quite a small pool of Scottish Labour MPs. Doesn't seem unreasonable. Meanwhile he has also appointed people who previously resigned to oppose him. Not unreasonable.

But, you know, let's moan about Chuka not getting a job


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 3, 2017)

JTG said:


> So, two experienced former MEPs and a shadow Scotland minister appointed from what is still quite a small pool of Scottish Labour MPs. Doesn't seem unreasonable. Meanwhile he has also appointed people who previously resigned to oppose him. Not unreasonable.
> 
> But, you know, let's moan about Chuka not getting a job



Quite a lot of women represented there too. For a terrible misogynist like Corbyn of course.


----------



## Sue (Jul 3, 2017)

Woman fasts for 15 days and writes rubbish article about it. (Actually, appears to be an extract from a book. A whole book of this rubbish -- the mind boggles.)

'I should feel pleased the fast is having the desired effects but my life is boring'


----------



## emanymton (Jul 4, 2017)

Sue said:


> Woman fasts for 15 days and writes rubbish article about it. (Actually, appears to be an extract from a book. A whole book of this rubbish -- the mind boggles.)
> 
> 'I should feel pleased the fast is having the desired effects but my life is boring'


Increadly irresponsible of them to be promoting this nonsense.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 4, 2017)

What the fuck is this shit?

Abba lifted the political gloom of the 1970s. Who will save us today?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 5, 2017)

Oh ffs   

My son's tattoo hurt me deeply



> I get angry with myself. This is nothing but snobbery, I think – latent anxiety about the trappings of class. As if my son had deliberately turned his back on a light Victoria sponge and stuffed his face with cheap doughnuts. I am aware, too, that I associate tattoos on men with aggression, the kind of arrogant swagger that goes with vest tops, dogs on chains, broken beer glasses.


.

christ


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 5, 2017)

eatmorecheese said:


> Oh ffs
> 
> My son's tattoo hurt me deeply
> 
> ...


So ashamed, she had to use a pseudonym


----------



## J Ed (Jul 5, 2017)

eatmorecheese said:


> Oh ffs
> 
> My son's tattoo hurt me deeply
> 
> ...



This is unhinged. I actually feel sorry for the writer, the world must be very scary for someone like that, full of horrors.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 5, 2017)

First posted five years ago and outed as a pisstake. This one wasn't though - even nice and clever people have tattoos now.

Middle class scaffolders and builders now.  Won't pay going rates,_ let's set up an artisan scaffolderey._


----------



## J Ed (Jul 5, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> First posted five years ago and outed as a pisstake. This one wasn't though - even nice and clever people have tattoos now.
> 
> Middle class scaffolders and builders now.  Won't pay going rates,_ let's set up an artisan scaffolderey._



At the end of the article they seem like they are just about to come to terms with their class prejudice but actually they are coming to terms with tattoos, deciding that actually there is no reason to be afraid of them just because working-class people, as well as _nice not working-class people_, have them.

The comments too...



> I've had tattoos for nearly twenty years, and I'm a reasonably nice, intelligent, bilingual, artist. This article is way out of date.


----------



## rekil (Jul 6, 2017)

Are you protesting at the G20 summit in Hamburg? Tell us why

A prize for whoever gets their 100% absolutely not made up grouplet in the G.


----------



## mather (Jul 6, 2017)

eatmorecheese said:


> Oh ffs
> 
> My son's tattoo hurt me deeply'
> 
> ...



Satire is dead! Fucking Wow, on one level it's hard to think this is not just some pisstake but there are people like this, far too many if you ask me.

The liberal middle classes have taken on Mary Whitehouse's role as the pearl clutching moral crusaders, outraged at every act and scene of working class 'vulgarity' and 'uncouthness'. Unlike her however, the source of their moral outrage is not religion and Christian values but class snobbery cloaked in faux radicalism and an attitude that rests upon the idea that working class people are nothing but vermin without their 'benign moral guidance' and their incessant hectoring. Honestly many middle class liberals come across as even bigger twats with a sense of entitlement than many upper class twats.


----------



## phillm (Jul 6, 2017)

eatmorecheese said:


> Oh ffs
> 
> My son's tattoo hurt me deeply
> 
> ...



Whilst it reads as a bit more than unhinged and is peppered with class identity it also reads as a woman mourning the growing up of her son and leaving the nest and not needing her anymore. And there's a fragile beauty in that.


----------



## Sue (Jul 6, 2017)

phillm said:


> Whilst it reads as a bit more than unhinged and is peppered with class identity it also reads as a woman mourning the growing up of her son and leaving the nest and not needing her anymore. And *there's a fragile beauty in that.*



Oh dear.


----------



## phillm (Jul 6, 2017)

Sue said:


> Oh dear.



like they say tis in the eye of the beholder. Though I have just learnt I should never use that phrase so I retract !  Why You Should Never Say: ‘Beauty Lies in the Eye of the Beholder’


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 6, 2017)

copliker said:


> Are you protesting at the G20 summit in Hamburg? Tell us why
> 
> A prize for whoever gets their 100% absolutely not made up grouplet in the G.


I look forward to hearing tales of derring-do from the frontline involving FREIHEITLUST


----------



## emanymton (Jul 8, 2017)

Tuition fees should be scrapped, says 'architect' of fees Andrew Adonis

What a cunt.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2017)

> [Vice-chancellors] increased their own pay and perks as fast as they increased tuition fees, and are now ‘earning’ salaries of £275,000 on average and in some cases over £400,000.
> 
> “Debt levels for new graduates are now so high that the Institute for Fiscal Studies estimates that three-quarters of graduates will never pay it all back. The Treasury will soon realise it is sitting on a Ponzi scheme,” Adonis writes.


who could possibly have seen that coming. Twat


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2017)

hadley freemans got a straight faced opinion piece chiding beckhams kid and railing against nepotism, entitlement and all that.
Brooklyn Beckham got a book deal on merit? Pull the other one

cambridge prep then oxford


----------



## Ole (Jul 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> hadley freemans got a straight faced opinion piece chiding beckhams kid and railing against nepotism, entitlement and all that.
> Brooklyn Beckham got a book deal on merit? Pull the other one
> 
> cambridge prep then ofxord


Jesus. 

That would be the same Cambridge prep school Zac Goldsmith attended.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 8, 2017)

I network.
You exploit the old school tie.
He/she is a talentless product of nepotism.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 8, 2017)

Actually, and not that his photos aren't fucking awful, Beckham is being given work and book deals on the basis of recognisable qualities - his fame and his huge Instagram following. This was why he also got to do that fashion shoot (or, more accurately, hold the camera and press the shutter on that fashion shoot).

This fame may have come about for no good reason but it's not really nepotism, any more than someone being born good-looking being hired as a model is nepotism. It's not done as a favour to his parents or because people think that he really _is_ a great photographer based on his background.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2017)

The next election isn’t won, whatever Labour and Corbyn think | Matthew d’Ancona



> It was a mistake not to invite Chuka Umunna, Yvette Cooper and other senior non-Corbynite figures into the shadow cabinet. Such a gesture would have bolstered his position, a sign that he was strong enough to be magnanimous. To win, Labour needs the Conservatives to be seen as the party of splits, in contrast to its own unity of purpose



this prannet.


----------



## JTG (Jul 10, 2017)

Umunna has been an MP for seven years. He was in the shadow cabinet for four and withdrew himself from that position for two before changing his mind last month. Not sure how that makes him "senior" tbh - thinking he should be on the front bench as and when he feels like it reeks of entitlement.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2017)

Nothing makes a party look more united than people in the shadow cabinet who want to see the leader out and his policies fail, after all.


----------



## Ptolemy (Jul 10, 2017)

JTG said:


> Umunna has been an MP for seven years. He was in the shadow cabinet for four and withdrew himself from that position for two before changing his mind last month. Not sure how that makes him "senior" tbh - thinking he should be on the front bench as and when he feels like it reeks of entitlement.



The media love him because he's "moderate" and good-looking. They don't see the thing that so many of us do; the fact that he's an oily, shapeshifting chancer with no convictions or values.

(Well, they do, but they no doubt think it's a good thing.)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2017)

its a repeat of the line being peddled by 'centrists' in the wake of corbyn's unexpected surge. He didn't win by enough so must (always must in the guardian. must) now reach out to those etc etc. d'Ancona and other freaks at guardian towers are beyond a joke now- I just googled 'toynbee corbyn' for the lols:

result 1
Jeremy Corbyn is rushing to embrace Labour’s annihilation | Polly Toynbee

result 2:

This is Corbyn’s moment: he’s rescued Britain from the chains of austerity | Polly Toynbee

what a difference a month or so makes  eh


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 10, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> The next election isn’t won, whatever Labour and Corbyn think | Matthew d’Ancona
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Possibly there would be certain advantages of 'positioning' to having one or two of these 'senior non-Corbynite figures' involved, just as successive Tory shadow/cabinets have found it convenient to allow Ken Clarke to hang around.

But Corbyn's success to date depends fairly directly on not being the sort of politician whose main concern is positioning.

And being inclusive towards fellow party members with divergent views on some key issues isn't quite the same as being expected to make room for self-serving types who use the exposure to openly further their own ends at your expense.

And I'm not sure that 'strong enough to be magnanimous' is how most people would see booting out those who been loyal and constructive, even if some of them are still fairly green, to make space for others, 'senior' or not, who've done nothing but shit-stir for a couple of years.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 10, 2017)

I think getting Owen Smith in (for all that he's pretty useless) is a smart move as far as rebuffing that stuff goes. It's hard to portray him as refusing to promote anyone who opposes him when he's promoted the actual rival candidate.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I think getting Owen Smith in (for all that he's pretty useless) is a smart move as far as rebuffing that stuff goes. It's hard to portray him as refusing to promote anyone who opposes him when he's promoted the actual rival candidate.


Smith has the NI experience as well, so not totally useless for the role?


----------



## Sue (Jul 10, 2017)

Is Owen Smith not just totally useless full stop? As well as having godawful politics natch.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 10, 2017)

Given he's so electable he'd probably have won with a landslide.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 10, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Given he's so electable he'd probably have won with a landslide.



No doubt. He has after all got the biggest schlong in all of west Llanelli. And who can compete with that apart from Kinnock the younger?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 12, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> No doubt. He has after all got the biggest schlong in all of west Llanelli. And who can compete with that apart from Kinnock the younger?



Kinnock II doesn't have a bigger cock that Smith, he just IS a bigger cock than Smith.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 12, 2017)

Sue said:


> Is Owen Smith not just totally useless full stop? As well as having godawful politics natch.




A natural fit for NI then.


----------



## squirrelp (Jul 12, 2017)

phillm said:


> like they say tis in the eye of the beholder. Though I have just learnt I should never use that phrase so I retract !  Why You Should Never Say: ‘Beauty Lies in the Eye of the Beholder’


I don't agree with that article at all. To me, the phrase does not eliminate the pursuit of artistic excellence, it just takes away the snobbishness, and suggests that pleasing your audience is the important thing.

A rubbish tip is a beautiful thing if you are an earthworm.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 13, 2017)

squirrelp said:


> ...pleasing your audience is the important thing.
> A rubbish tip is a beautiful thing if you are an earthworm.



I don't think earthworms even have eyes. 

I guess the important this is to count how many likes this post gets, how many likes your post gets, and that way we will find out the answer.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 14, 2017)

*Small-town children at risk of exploitation by criminal gangs, say MPs *



> Vulnerable children in provincial areas and small towns – *including those from middle-class families* – are at risk of exploitation and grooming by criminal gangs





> One mother, *who described herself as middle class*, told the MPs: “My son became involved in a gang where he was exploited to sell class A drugs at the age of 14 in 2012. I didn’t know what to do or who to call.



Straight outta...Brass Eye.

Small-town children at risk of exploitation by criminal gangs, say MPs


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 14, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> *Small-town children at risk of exploitation by criminal gangs, say MPs *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Nothing ever happens around here"


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> *Small-town children at risk of exploitation by criminal gangs, say MPs *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Two for one - even middle class kids (where it really counts)and just empty lifes until they go to LONDON. If only it didn't impinge upon abuse free london and the w/c didn't import it into the posh kids.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 14, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> *Small-town children at risk of exploitation by criminal gangs, say MPs *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 14, 2017)

10 July at 13:21


DotCommunist said:


> Smith has the NI experience as well, so not totally useless for the role?





From "not totally useless...?" to  in two and a half days.

This has to be an Urban record 

E2A with thanks to flypanam


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 14, 2017)

19force8 said:


> 10 July at 13:21
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 I should have known, I followed his disastrous leadership challenge...


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 14, 2017)

Oh fuck, I've found something even worse. Brixton, you really need a riot.

Clean raving: how club culture went wild for wellness



> With non-alcoholic raves thriving



Non-alcoholic raves? Like there was any other sort?



> It’s 7am, and hundreds of ticket holders are waiting near Brixton’s meat market to enter a “rooftop beach” venue in south London.



Fuck off.



> yuppies, Instagramming teens



Fuck off.



> “I am in charge of how I feel and today I’m choosing happiness”.



Fuck off hippie.



> All the while, Fatboy Slim DJs in a Lucha libre mask.



He can certainly fuck off.



> The pairing of wellness and music is now mainstream, and highly profitable.... Festivals and live events have shrewdly merged with the £3tn global wellness market ... It also helps that we are in the age of “experience as currency” – where a Snapchat story of your best mate hula hooping to Basement Jaxx’s Bingo Bango at a wellness event



Seriously now. Fuck off.



> “warming up to the more Californian approach to wellbeing.”



More hippies. Fuck off.



> Moyo believes there is much more appreciation of “gongs and chimes and didgeridoos,” at the moment, for example, because “everyone left, right and centre is trying ayahuasca or going to see a shaman”



Yeah. Everyone. Fuck off.



> meditation and laughter workshop where, without any jokes being told, people force themselves to laugh together until they feel genuinely happy.



Fuck off.



> It’s this kind of musical quest that a generation of Instagrammers and yoga enthusiasts has embarked upon – and, of course, commercialised.



Quite.



> As the clock reaches 10am, and the morning rave continues, I start to wonder what these people do for a living.



They gentrify Brixton. And get you to write about it.

Uurgh.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 14, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Oh fuck, I've found something even worse. Brixton, you really need a riot.
> 
> Clean raving: how club culture went wild for wellness
> 
> ...


----------



## Sue (Jul 14, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Oh fuck, I've found something even worse. Brixton, you really need a riot.
> 
> Clean raving: how club culture went wild for wellness
> 
> ...


But what do you really think, planetgeli..?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 14, 2017)

I fire up my twittermachine, and what words greet me?



> Thomasina Miers’ recipe for blackened squid with braised fennel


----------



## J Ed (Jul 14, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Oh fuck, I've found something even worse. Brixton, you really need a riot.
> 
> Clean raving: how club culture went wild for wellness
> 
> ...



The phrase wellness in itself is a red flag.


----------



## Santino (Jul 14, 2017)

Is it not the case that the whole wellness/wellbeing phenomenon is based on the fact that mainstream medicine has never properly addressed female health concerns?


----------



## J Ed (Jul 15, 2017)

Santino said:


> Is it not the case that the whole wellness/wellbeing phenomenon is based on the fact that mainstream medicine has never properly addressed female health concerns?



I don't know about that in particular but whenever I see the phrase used it is referring to the individualisation of health and mental health concerns. The problem is you, you have to find strategies and methods of dealing with the situation that you are in. Whatever situation you are in is just the only possible situation, and there is no changing it. So sort yourself out with some breathing techniques.


----------



## stavros (Jul 15, 2017)

A puff piece about himself by Turkey's oh-so-democratic president.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 16, 2017)

The always entertaining Dr Jen Gunter has long derided the big-claims-but-little-science areas of the _wellness industry_. In particular, she's been landing potshots at Gwyneth Paltrow's ridiculous Goop empire for ages, but only now have they attempted to respond. It's embarrassing to watch. Anyway, similar themes to here:

_[...]I bristle the most at the idea that GOOP are the feminist keepers of the inner goddess and that I am a tool of the patriarchy. Suggesting that goat’s milk can cure parasites or that astrology has a role in mental health care is the exact opposite of empowering. This is subliminal messaging about fear and modern medicine and toxins and it drives people to waste money, get unindicated and often expensive testing, and even delay care. It is also cruel and quite simply makes everyone less informed. How can women possibly take away anything useful from a post that seems to promote anorexia for quick weight loss, or one that claims bras cause breast cancer, or the one that claims sea sponges are safe for menstrual hygiene, or the absolutely jaw-dropping advice that nitrosamine exposure from condoms could be carcinogenic?

How dare the editors of GOOP promote the idea that I somehow think women “are not intelligent enough to read something and take away what serves us, and leave what does not” when they present half-truths. The classic GOOP playbook is stoke fear with the names of dangerous sounding chemicals and then offer a “natural” cure (often found in their shop). For example with nitrosamines and condoms GOOP neglected to tell women that using 1 condom a week for 30 years results in about 0.9 microgram of absorbed nitrosamines and that animal studies suggest that topical application of about 1 g is a concern. So 30 years of condoms once a week is about one millionth of that single carcinogenic dose. Let me tell you kiddos bad information is the exact opposite of autonomy. How can women possibly take away anything useful when the crucial information about dose and the studies that show condoms reduce the rate of cancer are missing?

I also take umbrage at the idea that I have mocked women who desperately turn to the snake oil that GOOP sells. That is simply untrue. My ire has been directed squarely at the people spreading misinformation, especially if it is for profit. I blog to help women get better advice so they can be more empowered with their health. 

Women are of course free to do what they want with their bodies. I have walked that walk more than any actress, editor, doctor, naturopath, ghost whisperer, or jade eggthisiast at GOOP. I literally write about choice regularly, a subject absent from the self-proclaimed collection of feminists at GOOP. How dare someone who has never counseled a woman about a second trimester abortion never mind done one lecture me on choice and health [...]_​
GOOP’s misogynistic, mansplaining hit job


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 17, 2017)

Quotation of the day:



> Neither the White House nor Vanilla Ice responded to requests for comment.





Juggalo March on Washington: Insane Clown Posse fans to demand end to 'gang' designation


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2017)

What if all students spent a year working the land before university? | Hugh Warwick

up to the mountains and down to the countryside lol


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2017)

Why we should be suspicious of the Tory ‘get Hammond’ project | Jonathan Freedland

Lol wtf


----------



## mather (Jul 18, 2017)

Another shit article by Paul Mason.

Brexit won’t help Britain survive the rise of the robots | Paul MasonBrexit won’t help Britain survive the rise of the robots | Paul Mason

The last sentence sums up his crap politics perfectly:



> If the UK’s business establishment cannot stage a 1922-style coup inside the Conservative party to reinstall its globalist, liberal wing this autumn, the most sensible thing would be to place its chips on red.



That's right, if the business elite can't make the Tories an even more ruthless party of capital, then they should do it to Labour.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 18, 2017)

mather said:


> Another shit article by Paul Mason.
> 
> Brexit won’t help Britain survive the rise of the robots | Paul MasonBrexit won’t help Britain survive the rise of the robots | Paul Mason
> 
> ...



Mason seems absolutely desperate for Labour to do a Syriza but before there has even been a confrontation with capital.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 18, 2017)

mather said:


> Another shit article by Paul Mason.
> 
> Brexit won’t help Britain survive the rise of the robots | Paul MasonBrexit won’t help Britain survive the rise of the robots | Paul Mason
> 
> ...



tbf, as he's nailed his colours to the reformist mast for now, it's a standard Keynesian line of argument that Left Labour has more to offer modern capitalism than moribund Toryism, ie : shift of wealth / investment from the greedy, going nowhere 1%ers to the gleaming state projects and better educated, housed and healthier workforce of the shiny soc democratic future. But it's more of a transitional demand / pipe dream surely, not sure Mason really thinks capitalism can cope with what PwC etc reportedly believe could be 10-15m structural unemployment in UK post AI / 'Singularity' etc ?


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 18, 2017)

Don't text your ex: inside the booming industry of 'breakup experts'



> Adam had been in both personal and couples therapy for years, as his emotional and sexual connection with his partner sputtered, and he was already suitably in touch with both self-conscious motivation and the particular issues that dogged his last relationship. But what he really wanted was an expert in heartbreak, someone who could guide him through the process and help him regain his confidence. And so he called on Natalia Juarez, a “breakup expert and dating strategist” based in Toronto.
> 
> Over six months, Adam paid C$2,500 to Juarez, as she encouraged him to start working out, build a new social circle and study mindfulness. “[Natalia] encouraged me to grieve my relationship and to allow myself to feel my feelings,” says Adam. “Eventually, she encouraged me to appreciate how I had grown from the relationship and the breakup. That’s when I knew I had healed.”



That's a little over £1,500, in UK moneys, for Natalia to tell him to be healthier and find some new mates. Seriously the things these people spend good money on...


----------



## mather (Jul 18, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Mason seems absolutely desperate for Labour to do a Syriza but before there has even been a confrontation with capital.



Why on Earth would anyone want to copy Syriza? If anything they are the perfect example of what *not* to do for any leftist party.

Then again this Mason we are talking about so why am I even asking.


----------



## Ptolemy (Jul 18, 2017)

mather said:


> Why on Earth would anyone want to copy Syriza? If anything they are the perfect example of what *not* to do for any leftist party.
> 
> Then again this Mason we are talking about so why am I even asking.



What would you have had Syriza do?

Genuine question as I know very little about what has been happening over there, other than Tsipras implemented cuts which the EU demanded.


----------



## mather (Jul 18, 2017)

Ptolemy said:


> What would you have had Syriza do?
> 
> Genuine question as I know very little about what has been happening over there, other than Tsipras implemented cuts which the EU demanded.



They should have not implemented any cuts, told the EU and Germany to fuck off and pulled Greece out of the Eurozone and EU. There were those in Greece that said plans were being put in place for that very outcome but in the end Syriza and Tsipras bottled it and caved in to the EU. At the end of the day Tsipras had the choice of looking after the interests of Greece and it's workers or those of the EU and German banks and he chose the latter so fuck him. 

If I was Greek I would be switching my vote from Syriza to the communists (KKE).


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 20, 2017)

Significant:



> In the event, the Lib Dems ended up with 12 seats; a significant improvement on the nine they held before Theresa May called the snap poll, but well short of the significant advance he had hoped for as the party sought to capitalise on the anguish of remainers.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 20, 2017)

'Vince Cable is a building block': Lib Dems on the party's future

"Vince Cable is a building block"

Rhyming slang, right?


----------



## mather (Jul 20, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> 'Vince Cable is a building block': Lib Dems on the party's future
> 
> "Vince Cable is a building block"
> 
> Rhyming slang, right?



A bulging cock?


----------



## Sifta (Jul 22, 2017)

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jul/22/actual-lake-sea-top-of-the-lake-howard-Jacobson


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 22, 2017)

Sifta said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jul/22/actual-lake-sea-top-of-the-lake-howard-Jacobson
> 
> View attachment 111879





Sifta said:


> https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jul/22/actual-lake-sea-top-of-the-lake-howard-Jacobson
> 
> View attachment 111879


My log saw something that night.


----------



## Sue (Jul 23, 2017)

Inequality and pulling strings are bad except when it's your own kids. Ugh, if not surprising.  

'There is inevitably an arms race': parents on opportunity hoarding


----------



## xenon (Jul 23, 2017)

Sue said:


> Inequality and pulling strings are bad except when it's your own kids. Ugh, if not surprising.
> 
> 'There is inevitably an arms race': parents on opportunity hoarding




Thought that wasn't bad, as far as it went. Self reportage wise.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Jul 23, 2017)

Every time I see this thread I wish someone would put a comma after the Why in the title


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jul 24, 2017)




----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 24, 2017)

Just came here to post that. Should keep the conspiraloons busy


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> Just came here to post that. Should keep the conspiraloons busy


this is in fact a serious issue, even if the grauniad coverage is a bit shit

some years ago, aware of this topic and passing by what is now cardinal place on victoria street, i spotted hoardings declaring it would be a new public space, and this seems to be the case:

[Content removed at request of poster]
don't know how you'd otherwise describe something saying it has "public gardens and thoroughfares" than as a public space.

the privatisation of public space needs to be challenged tho, it is insidious

but tbh this has been raised before - notably in the guardian  The privatisation of cities' public spaces is escalating. It is time to take a stand (2015 story) Public spaces in Britain's cities fall into private hands (2012 story) not to mention the ft  Subscribe to read

[Content removed at request of poster]


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 24, 2017)

I think one of the reasons that article was posted here was because the article, or rather the section it is published in, is sponsored by The Rockefeller Foundation


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I think one of the reasons that article was posted here was because the article, or rather the section it is published in, is sponsored by The Rockefeller Foundation


thank you for your contribution


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> this is in fact a serious issue, even if the grauniad coverage is a bit shit
> 
> some years ago, aware of this topic and passing by what is now cardinal place on victoria street, i spotted hoardings declaring it would be a new public space, and this seems to be the case:
> 
> ...



I was just referring to the fact the article was funded by Rockafeller I'm not really interested in the rest though I've no doubt it's a serious issue.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> I was just referring to the fact the article was funded by Rockafeller I'm not really interested in the rest though I've no doubt it's a serious issue.


it's more than that though as everything on the guardian's resilient cities page is to be sponsored by rockfellers.
[Content removed at request of poster]


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2017)

White trash


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2017)

> I recently spent several months in central London recording 30 homeless people as they chronicled their lives with great candour and humility. Much of what they talked about was their life, now, on the street.





> One particular time I went to a posh cafe to warm up, get a coffee and use the loo. I was eyed with great suspicion. My outward appearance had changed but I’d plainly not lost my sense of entitlement to a table in a fancy coffee shop. The waiter thought otherwise. He was cold and unfriendly. Unlike all the other customers I observed, he made me pay immediately, and not as I got up to leave. Instead of giving me verbal directions to the loo he actually came with me. An escort. He waited outside the door until I was done. It was horrible. It was cold and I went immediately into an Accessorize to buy another, thicker scarf


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> it's more than that though as everything on the guardian's resilient cities page is to be sponsored by rockfellers.
> 
> View attachment 111976


Thanks for your contribution


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> Thanks for your contribution


you're very welcome


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2017)

British people like Banksy. But they're wrong. Art is supposed to be difficult and confusing, not just something any pleb off the street can enjoy.



> Banksy’s Girl with Balloon comes top in a popular vote, despite its oversimplification of human emotion. Real art is ambiguous and difficult.





> Let’s look at Girl with Balloon and see if it deserves its popularity. A girl whose hair and dress are blowing forwards in the wind reaches up to clutch the string of her heart-shaped red balloon. The gust has pulled it out of her hand. It’s away. Aw. Is there any more to say? She is depicted as a simplified black shadow on the wall.
> 
> Being generous, I could say this fast street-art stencilling technique suggests the ephemerality not only of the image itself, doomed to be whitewashed by the authorities, but of us all, and our feelings. Yet in reality the effect is to brutally reduce human emotions to the crass and obvious. Instead of portraying a rich human being with mysterious emotions, Banksy gives us a one-dimensional icon whose pathos is instantly readable.



Britain’s best-loved artwork is a Banksy. That’s proof of our stupidity | Jonathan Jones


----------



## Santino (Jul 26, 2017)

Jones is a wanker commenting on a nonsense story concocted as part of a bullshit PR campaign picked up by lazy journalists as news.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 26, 2017)

Popular art in lowest common denominator shocker. Not that that's a bad thing necessarily. But it strikes me as plain unrealistic, not just snobby and elitist, to think that things should be any other way. And you certainly aren't going to raise the aesthetic calibre of the general population by sneering at them and calling them a bunch of rubes.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> British people like Banksy. But they're wrong. Art is supposed to be difficult and confusing, not just something any pleb off the street can enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This -



> "Real art is elusive, complex, ambiguous and often difficult. Actually, remove that qualifier. It is always difficult."



Like a bloke down the pub holding forth on a matter of which knows fuck all -  this is utter and complete ignorant bollocks. But its delivered with the blinding arrogance, condescension and patronising pomposity that only private school and oxbridge can deliver.


----------



## xenon (Jul 27, 2017)

We are all stupid. Not me though because I've seen through it.  I've written an article about pop art. And now I can rise above you like Banksys balloon.  We are so shallow. Look at this shallow thing I have   Found lucrative to write about. Come on and drown with me.   Your guilt pays for Jemima's school fees.  But in the way, we are all guilty.


----------



## rekil (Jul 27, 2017)

Spoiler


----------



## stethoscope (Jul 27, 2017)

Fuck off Guardian. Fuck off Lib Dems.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2017)

_Os so you're against AV you're lining up with the BNP? Btw here's my plan to charge people for accessing employment tribunals.

Cunt of ray reardon cunt._


----------



## belboid (Jul 29, 2017)

File under 'too close to home'

Momentum’s video is full of simplistic prejudices and won’t win over anyone | Deborah Orr


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 29, 2017)

belboid said:


> File under 'too close to home'
> 
> Momentum’s video is full of simplistic prejudices and won’t win over anyone | Deborah Orr



You'd certainly look to the Guardian if you wanted to know what's going to be popular with people wouldn't you. Always bang on it.


----------



## mather (Jul 29, 2017)

Not about the Guardian per se but Guardian related:

Guido Fawkes scores own “donkey c*ck” goal after misunderstanding web ads

Paul Staines aka Guido Fawkes tried to smear the Guardian by saying that the Guardian posts ads for videos of women sucking off Donkeys. Of course no such ads existed and third party ads are based on what he has been looking up on the web.

It seems Staines is a right wrong'un.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 29, 2017)

ffs don't these twats ever learn ?   

You've been ad, mate: Tory MP in blunder over 'Arab dating' adverts


_Gavin Barwell, MP for Croydon Central, spotted the link on a Labour press release but did not realise Google ads are based on the user’s “interests”_


----------



## killer b (Jul 29, 2017)

Both of those stories are ancient


----------



## belboid (Jul 29, 2017)

killer b said:


> Both of those stories are ancient


but still funny


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 30, 2017)

This is great if you want something to assist you in having an afternoon snooze: Going back to Facebook after four years is a sad and scary experience | Hannah Jane Parkinson


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2017)




----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 30, 2017)

copliker said:


> View attachment 112175



For a moment I thought that was Owen Jones.


----------



## rekil (Jul 30, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> For a moment I thought that was Owen Jones.


He'll get there in the end. Kevin Myers was a 68er.


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 5, 2017)

They're at it again (see post #6814)

Fit in my 40s: ‘I turn up at 6.30am to what looks just like an actual rave’



> In the Ministry of Sound’s front room I find a trance-flavoured yoga session



Fu...no, this is too easy.

But it does contain the rather wonderful line,



> *I love millennials. They talk about themselves like rain forests.*


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 5, 2017)

> I daydreamed about Muswell Hill, but I couldn’t afford it. Eventually, I had a real dream that Muswell Hill was a walled city on an escarpment overlooking London; a fortress that I could circle on the 134 bus but not enter. Even my subconscious knew it was over. We were moving to the country.



There are two Cornwalls: the paradise of my fantasies and the place I’ve moved to


----------



## Libertad (Aug 5, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> There are two Cornwalls: the paradise of my fantasies and the place I’ve moved to





> We may never own the house, but I don’t mind, because no Cornish person would buy it, so I suppose we will stay here.



Do fuck off Tanya.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2017)

I'm fully behind those nationalist nutters burning her out rather than a chippy and some flats.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 5, 2017)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2017)

Spambot.


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2017)

I was just coming here to post that. It has everything.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 5, 2017)

Yet another journalist leaves London story. Never gets old does it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yet another journalist leaves London story. Never gets old does it.


this ones going for a bit of a kathleen jamie vibe to her prose. I stopped at 'I had to work'


----------



## killer b (Aug 5, 2017)

The Cornwall element makes it. I sent it to my Cornish girlfriend, who had already received it from multiple, enraged sources.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2017)

lol spot the bit where she reached for a synonym to 'crone'


----------



## emanymton (Aug 5, 2017)

Won't someone please think of the buy-to-let landlords.

Goodbye to buy-to-let: why I’m moving on after 13 years as a landlady

If my maths is right the average rent she changed for a 1 bedroom flat with no garden was £800 a month.


----------



## stavros (Aug 6, 2017)

A puff piece editorial on the royal family from the Graun.

Can't someone veer away from the hard-working, bring-in-tourists, expert-at-waving royalist line? Does what's left of the Indie still ignore the Windsors?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 6, 2017)

Can you trust the mainstream media?

People are increasingly saying mainstream media sources are untrustworthy, how sad that they are so deluded and concentrate on a few instances to give everyone a bad name.

*spends half the article slagging off the Canary to prove this viewpoint has no credibility by extension*


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 6, 2017)

Yeah I was going to post that one.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 6, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> They're at it again (see post #6814)
> 
> Fit in my 40s: ‘I turn up at 6.30am to what looks just like an actual rave’
> 
> ...



After reading that, I want to stab someone.


----------



## YouSir (Aug 6, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Can you trust the mainstream media?
> 
> People are increasingly saying mainstream media sources are untrustworthy, how sad that they are so deluded and concentrate on a few instances to give everyone a bad name.
> 
> *spends half the article slagging off the Canary to prove this viewpoint has no credibility by extension*



I only got half way through that, couldn't hack the habitual lack of self reflection and lazy disdain for all criticism. Sure their staffers enjoyed it though.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 6, 2017)




----------



## J Ed (Aug 6, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 112910



If you look at pre-2010 Guardian it's full of 'oh no the Tories will never get back in' sentiment, it's starting again but before they are even out of power..


----------



## Sifta (Aug 9, 2017)

* If social housing is precious, tenancies should be time-limited *
Without means testing and fixed tenancies, someone on a high income could end up in secure housing while those on lower incomes struggle. That isn’t fair

If social housing is precious, tenancies should be time-limited | Josh Crites


----------



## crossthebreeze (Aug 9, 2017)

Sifta said:


> * If social housing is precious, tenancies should be time-limited *
> Without means testing and fixed tenancies, someone on a high income could end up in secure housing while those on lower incomes struggle. That isn’t fair
> 
> If social housing is precious, tenancies should be time-limited | Josh Crites





Sifta said:


> * If social housing is precious, tenancies should be time-limited *
> Without means testing and fixed tenancies, someone on a high income could end up in secure housing while those on lower incomes struggle. That isn’t fair
> 
> If social housing is precious, tenancies should be time-limited | Josh Crites


Wanker. Why's he on about students? And subsidies (social housing in the uk is not subsidised), and he seems to conflate housing benefit with social housing. 

And new social tenancies are already tine limited. My housing association tenancy, which i got last year, is for a one year starter tenancy and will then hopefully be renewed for a 5 year fixed term. No one seems to be able to give me info as to what happens at the end of those 5 years. And considering the flat was in a very poor state of decor and cleanliness when it was handed over to me, has a concrete floor but came with with no floor coverings so i had to buy my own carpets (and laminate and wood banned), is in a slightly odd building so getting furniture, appliances, and fittings that fits and can be delivered is more difficult than usual, and has sub-standard kitchen units, so making it liveable has taken lots of money, time, and effort - i wouldn't want to go through that every 6 years.

Its the policies of successive  governments, not least this and the last lot of vermin, that mean homeless people, including families can't get social housing, not housing security for social tenants.


----------



## The Pale King (Aug 9, 2017)

'Fairness' abstracted from material conditions always sets W/C subsets against each other - classic liberal/tory ideological trick.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Bindel strikes again with a click bait piece that is at once sexist, cliched and hilarious.  She really doesn't do herself any favours.

Salma Hayek is right: compared with women, men are lazy and entitled | Julie Bindel


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Bindel strikes again with a click bait piece that is at once sexist, cliched and hilarious.  She really doesn't do herself any favours.
> 
> Salma Hayek is right: compared with women, men are lazy and entitled | Julie Bindel


It's written and subbed in a click bait manner, but most of what she says is spot on and indisputable. Men and women are judged differently


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> It's written and subbed in a click bait manner, but most of what she says is spot on and indisputable. Men and women are judged differently



Nah, she's a nasty, blinkered piece of work, out to exaggerate, stick the knife in men (many of who aren't so entitled or well off in the way she thinks) and divide.  In case you think she's on the side of women, IIRC she's written some nasty stuff about women with kids, trans women, etc - basically anyone who doesn't lead her lesbian lifestyle.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Nah, she's a nasty, blinkered piece of work, out to exaggerate, stick the knife in men (many of who aren't so entitled or well off in the way she thinks) and divide.  In case you think she's on the side of women, IIRC she's written some nasty stuff about women with kids, trans women, etc - basically anyone who doesn't lead her lesbian lifestyle.


Pls point me to where you've written nice things about people who don't share your lifestyle


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Nah, she's a nasty, blinkered piece of work, out to exaggerate, stick the knife in men (many of who aren't so entitled or well off in the way she thinks) and divide.  In case you think she's on the side of women, IIRC she's written some nasty stuff about women with kids, trans women, etc - basically anyone who doesn't lead her lesbian lifestyle.


I'm no fan of hers but that's a rather exaggerated presentation of her. Well that last bit anyway.
But I was going on what she said in the article not on what she's said on other occasions.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Pls point me to where you've written nice things about people who don't share your lifestyle



Do I actively have to have written nice things about them or just not have written nasty things about them?  I think I'm pretty tolerant tbh, not that one should get a medal for being tolerant.  But Bindel is a nasty bigot and the reason more don't call her out on it is because of her association with feminism, or a feminism that suits her.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Do I actively have to have written nice things about them or just not have written nasty things about them?  I think I'm pretty tolerant tbh.


but not of feminists who challenge your prejudices


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> but not of feminists who challenge your prejudices



My prejudices being?  Quite happy to listen to other people's arguments, other people are entitled to their views, etc.. it's just when people claim you aren't entitled to your views or throw insults around I get upset.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> My prejudices being?  Quite happy to listen to other people's arguments, other people are entitled to their views, etc.. it's just when people claim you aren't entitled to your views or throw insults around I get upset.


Well, that's the thing. You don't listen, you don't learn. You have a view and nothing will shift it.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Well, that's the thing. You don't listen, you don't learn. You have a view and nothing will shift it.



Ahh, so I have to change my view to fit with yours...  You can't accept that people hold (and hold on to) views that conflict with your own, where as I can.


----------



## killer b (Aug 12, 2017)

Have to say, I'm only really conscious of Julie Bindel because of all the people who 'call her out'. To say that she's somehow protected from criticism because of her protective cloak of feminism is a laughable distortion of reality.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Ahh, so I have to change my view to fit with yours...  You can't accept that people hold (and hold on to) views that conflict with your own, where as I can.


Hmm, you can't seem to accept Bindel's not particularly controversial assertions in the article.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Hmm, you can't seem to accept Bindel's not particularly controversial assertions in the article.



Not particularly controversial.  Did you read the btl comments?  And, yeah, there are a few I definitely would challenge or consider in more depth, but I don't really want to take this thread OT.  We'll need to agree to disagree, if you can manage that.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not particularly controversial.  Did you read the btl comments?  And, yeah, there are a few I definitely would challenge or consider in more depth, but I don't really want to take this thread OT.  We'll need to agree to disagree, if you can manage that.


btl comments?


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2017)

A misogynist doesn't like an artice by a feminist, even when she is merely saying things that are blatantly obvious.  i am shocked.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> btl comments?


Below the line - it literally just means comments.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Below the line - it literally just means comments.


oh fuck that


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> btl comments?



Below the line.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

belboid said:


> A misogynist doesn't like an artice by a feminist, even when she is merely saying things that are blatantly obvious.  i am shocked.



If you're referring to me, perhaps you'd like to show some evidence. No hatred towards women here, just a profound disagreement with the assumption that as a man you automatically have an easier, nicer life.  Maybe you need to read some of the btl comments too?  Or would that be too much of a challenge to your blinkered viewpoint?


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> a profound disagreement with the assumption that as a man you automatically have an easier, nicer life.


lol, it's not an assumption


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> If you're referring to me, perhaps you'd like to show some evidence. No hatred towards women here, just a profound disagreement with the assumption that as a man you automatically have an easier, nicer life.  Maybe you need to read some of the btl comments too?  Or would that be too much of a challenge to your blinkered viewpoint?


Why would I read the comments when it's the article you said was the problem? An article in which you haven't found a single factual error.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2017)

I heard that there are lots of poor men in this country, so how can men have an easy life, eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Ahh, so I have to change my view to fit with yours...  You can't accept that people hold (and hold on to) views that conflict with your own, where as I can.


Shown no evidence you can

Can you? Second time of asking


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

belboid said:


> Why would I read the comments when it's the article you said was the problem? An article in which you haven't found a single factual error.



You'd read the comments to find that most are in disagreement with the article and to discover what is being challenged...  I suggest you look there for alternative viewpoints.  I don't want to take this thread OT and don't have time to argue.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Shown no evidence you can
> 
> Can you? Second time of asking



What are you asking?


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You'd read the comments to find that most are in disagreement with the article and to discover what is being challenged...  I suggest you look there for alternative viewpoints.  I don't want to take this thread OT and don't have time to argue.


lol. You're the one claiming the article is shit, that it fulfills the criteria to be included in this thread. So backing up your claim is entirely on topic. I suggest you back up your casual misogyny.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You'd read the comments to find that most are in disagreement with the article and to discover what is being challenged...  I suggest you look there for alternative viewpoints.  I don't want to take this thread OT and don't have time to argue.


nothing wrong with discussing matters that have arisen.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

belboid said:


> lol. You're the one claiming the article is shit, that it fulfills the criteria to be included in this thread. So backing up your claim is entirely on topic. I suggest you back up your casual misogyny.



It is shit.  Even OU says it's written in a clickbait manner, which is bad enough...


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> nothing wrong with discussing matters that have arisen.



I don't have the time.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I don't have the time.


 cos you don't have a leg to stand on


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I don't have the time.


off you fuck, then


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> What are you asking?


The impossible, it seems. A moment...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Pls point me to where you've written nice things about people who don't share your lifestyle


Johnny Vodka


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> cos you don't have a leg to stand on



No, coz I have more to do than be on the internet all day.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

belboid said:


> off you fuck, then



After you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> No, coz I have more to do than be on the internet all day.


Come on chuck, you must have been nice about other people's lifestyles once or twice


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Johnny Vodka



I responded to you with a question that you didn't answer.  Anyway, I'm not getting dragged into your pedantry today.  I am, however, satisfied I am less bigoted than Bindel (not hard).  As for the pathetic accusations of misogyny, I have many female friends.  I wonder how many male friends Bindel has? Ciao.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I responded to you with a question that you didn't answer.  Anyway, I'm not getting dragged into your pedantry today.  I am, however, satisfied I am less bigoted than Bindel (not hard).  As for the pathetic accusations of misogyny, I have many female friends.  I wonder how many male friends Bindel has? Ciao.


Some of my best friends...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I responded to you with a question that you didn't answer.  Anyway, I'm not getting dragged into your pedantry today.  I am, however, satisfied I am less bigoted than Bindel (not hard).  As for the pathetic accusations of misogyny, I have many female friends.  I wonder how many male friends Bindel has? Ciao.


I have said repeatedly what I'm asking: I quoted my original post and tagged you so it's not like I've been vague. You can have as many female friends as you like, that's no answer to 'please point me to nice comments you've made about people whose lifestyles differ from yours'.


----------



## belboid (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> After you.


If you are staying around, you have time to point out the factual errors in the article.  So go on, do it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2017)

*taps watch*

Looks like the coward John Vodka has scuttled off


----------



## Sue (Aug 12, 2017)

Twenty-four year old 'forced' to move out of home while mother helps pay rent. Life is so unfair. 

'If someone had predicted 10 years ago that by 24 I’d be renting in a house with a bunch of strangers while my old, comfy bedroom six miles away sat completely empty and all my friends stayed at home, I would have said that scenario didn’t make any sense.'

'Of course, moving out in your early 20s isn’t unheard of and I am somewhat lucky in that I’ve had access to money that has helped me find my feet for the first few months, but I would have liked the option to stay put and save up like most of my mates.'

‘I’m leaving the nest before I’m ready but that’s what life has thrown up’


----------



## scifisam (Aug 12, 2017)

Sue said:


> Twenty-four year old 'forced' to move out of home while mother helps pay rent. Life is so unfair.
> 
> 'If someone had predicted 10 years ago that by 24 I’d be renting in a house with a bunch of strangers while my old, comfy bedroom six miles away sat completely empty and all my friends stayed at home, I would have said that scenario didn’t make any sense.'
> 
> ...


I'm sure writing that will really help her relationship with her mother.


----------



## Dandred (Aug 12, 2017)

The guardian isn't going down the pan, it is staying were it always has. Upper middle class.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 13, 2017)

Sue said:


> Twenty-four year old 'forced' to move out of home while mother helps pay rent. Life is so unfair.
> 
> 'If someone had predicted 10 years ago that by 24 I’d be renting in a house with a bunch of strangers while my old, comfy bedroom six miles away sat completely empty and all my friends stayed at home, I would have said that scenario didn’t make any sense.'
> 
> ...


She's written another article about wearing glasses. It's sad what's happened to her but I'm not sure that writing about it in the national press will help her to reconcile with her mum (she might not want to, of course).


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2017)

Dandred said:


> The guardian isn't going down the pan, it is staying were it always has. Upper middle class.


Push it down and flush it harder


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 13, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Push it down and flush it harder


"Ah cannae break the laws of physics, captain "


----------



## Cloud (Aug 13, 2017)

Cannabis policy sucks. Can't possibly take them seriously imho


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 14, 2017)

Like clockwork


----------



## stavros (Aug 17, 2017)

"The new research from supermarket chain Sainsbury’s shows that hosts typically over-cater to impress friends and family, with more than half (49.2%) putting on a larger than necessary spread."

They must have no one monitoring the BTL comments, as well as no subs, as virtually every one points this out.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 22, 2017)




----------



## killer b (Aug 22, 2017)

hmm. I wonder.


----------



## killer b (Aug 22, 2017)

wtf. 

_ it’s been quite remarkable to hear a Conservative chancellor talking seriously about rebalancing the economy away from London and the south-east_


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 114102





killer b said:


> hmm. I wonder.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 114102


This would be the north where the tories got 34% of the vote and 9% of the seats I suppose


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 23, 2017)

The return of the KLF: pop's greatest provocateurs take on a post-truth world

The whole 'article' appears to be a re-written press release from a journalist who doesn't know who Robert Anton Wilson was and who hasn't even googled _The Illuminatus! Trilogy_. This is seriously embarrassing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> The return of the KLF: pop's greatest provocateurs take on a post-truth world
> 
> The whole 'article' appears to be a re-written press release from a journalist who doesn't know who Robert Anton Wilson was and who hasn't even googled _The Illuminatus! Trilogy_. This is seriously embarrassing.


even for the guardian that's pisspoor


----------



## bemused (Aug 23, 2017)

Apprantly Nelson is a symbol of white supremacy.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 23, 2017)

bemused said:


> Apprantly Nelson is a symbol of white supremacy.


I totally think the statues around London should be re-assessed. Loads of murderers of 'lesser races' and the working class. But starting with Nelson is total clickbait. Arsehole though he was, he is there for a victory in defence of the UK, not to celebrate his imperial aggressions, unlike many of the statues around London. Havelock and Napier (also in Trafalgar Square) are more worthy of re-assessment than the Nelson statue, but it wouldn't make as good a headline would it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> Arsehole though he was, he is there for a victory in defence of the UK, not to celebrate his imperial aggressions


you haven't thought this through, have you chuck?


----------



## bemused (Aug 23, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> I totally think the statues around London should be re-assessed. Loads of murderers of 'lesser races' and the working class. But starting with Nelson is total clickbait. Arsehole though he was, he is there for a victory in defence of the UK, not to celebrate his imperial aggressions, unlike many of the statues around London. Havelock and Napier (also in Trafalgar Square) are more worthy of re-assessment than the Nelson statue, but it wouldn't make as good a headline would it?



Seems to be a case of 'hey the Americans are pulling stuff down, so should we.'.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 23, 2017)

bemused said:


> Seems to be a case of 'hey the Americans are pulling stuff down, so should we.'.


Americans are pulling stuff down for the right reasons. I've no problem with copying that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> Americans are pulling stuff down for the right reasons. I've no problem with copying that.


perhaps we could return for a moment to your claim that nelson was a good imperialist.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps we could return for a moment to your claim that nelson was a good imperialist.


I didn't claim that. I said that the reason he was put in Trafalgar Sq was not to do with his imperial adventures, and that makes him a poor first target.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> I didn't claim that. I said that the reason he was put in Trafalgar Sq was not to do with his imperial adventures, and that makes him a poor first target.


i'm interested in how you can make out trafalgar was not an imperial adventure. victories in defence of the imperial power are er imperial adventures, be they at lucknow or off cape trafalgar


----------



## flypanam (Aug 23, 2017)

bemused said:


> Seems to be a case of 'hey the Americans are pulling stuff down, so should we.'.


They could go the Irish route, much more wholesome and final.
Dispelling the myths about the bombing of Nelson's Pillar


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2017)

churchill can go, he wasn't simply a racist he was more than that. Makes him sound like someones nan who accidentaly still calls it rhodesia, rather than one of histories monsters. Stick him in the IWM. Although I like it when people give him a mohawk made of turf so...


----------



## belboid (Aug 23, 2017)

bemused said:


> Seems to be a case of 'hey the Americans are pulling stuff down, so should we.'.


It really isnt.  Did you read beyond the headline? 

It's clickbait, but a perfectly reasonable argument


----------



## no-no (Aug 23, 2017)

Would we have many statues left if they all had to pass a morality trial?


----------



## bemused (Aug 23, 2017)

belboid said:


> It really isnt.  Did you read beyond the headline?
> 
> It's clickbait, but a perfectly reasonable argument



I did read it. That article only exists because of what is happening in the US.

The presence of a public historical monument doesn't mean society now endorses actions of society then. I don't think Stone Henge is encouraging pagnism. Removing them means you'll untimely end up with no public monuments, and public spaces will be poorer for it. 

People are smart enough to contexualise their history.


----------



## bemused (Aug 23, 2017)

no-no said:


> Would we have many statues left if they all had to pass a morality trial?



No.


----------



## belboid (Aug 23, 2017)

bemused said:


> I did read it. That article only exists because of what is happening in the US.


so what?



> The presence of a public historical monument doesn't mean society now endorses actions of society then. I don't think Stone Henge is encouraging pagnism. Removing them means you'll untimely end up with no public monuments, and public spaces will be poorer for it.
> 
> People are smart enough to contexualise their history.


That's a poor argument for keeping up statues to any and every bastard, though. Nelson may (or may not) be the worst, but it's exactly the same argument the racists are using in the States.  Had the headline been about the statue to Bomber Harris, we surely wouldn't be having this discussion.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 23, 2017)

belboid said:


> so what?
> 
> 
> That's a poor argument for keeping up statues to any and every bastard, though. Nelson may (or may not) be the worst, but it's exactly the same argument the racists are using in the States.  Had the headline been about the statue to Bomber Harris, we surely wouldn't be having this discussion.


There was quite a bit of fuss about that statue of Cecil Rhodes n Oxford, who was 'the worst' kind of imperialist


----------



## bemused (Aug 23, 2017)

belboid said:


> That's a poor argument for keeping up statues to any and every bastard, though. Nelson may (or may not) be the worst, but it's exactly the same argument the racists are using in the States.



Would you remove Nelson's monument then?


----------



## belboid (Aug 23, 2017)

bemused said:


> Would you remove Nelson's monument then?


I'd certainly consider proposing to do so in order to start a discussion about the subject, one which led to the removal of Harris' (and Rhodes)


----------



## no-no (Aug 23, 2017)

A fairly worded plaque should suffice in most cases I reckon....not keen on pulling down statues. More keen on building new ones of a more diverse nature.


----------



## bemused (Aug 23, 2017)

belboid said:


> I'd certainly consider proposing to do so in order to start a discussion about the subject, one which led to the removal of Harris' (and Rhodes)



Just to be clear, you would remove it or not?


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 23, 2017)

They should pull Nelson down and have a different statue annually, bit like like they have done with the fourth plinth


----------



## belboid (Aug 23, 2017)

bemused said:


> Just to be clear, you would remove it or not?


I'm not sure, that's why I think it is perfectly reasonable topic for discussion in a newspaper.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2017)

no-no said:


> A fairly worded plaque should suffice in most cases I reckon....not keen on pulling down statues. More keen on building new ones of a more diverse nature.


I'll give them a fairly worded plaque when Peterloo gets a memorial and we don't have to rob our Engels statues from the former soviet bloc


----------



## no-no (Aug 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I'll give them a fairly worded plaque when Peterloo gets a memorial and we don't have to rob our Engels statues from the former soviet bloc



That's the spirit


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> There was quite a bit of fuss about that statue of Cecil Rhodes n Oxford, who was 'the worst' kind of imperialist


yeh and whose statue should stay there as a reminder to oxford students of what they may become


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> They should pull Nelson down and have a different statue annually, bit like like they have done with the fourth plinth


no, they should install members of the royal family on the column as required


----------



## 19force8 (Aug 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I'll give them a fairly worded plaque when Peterloo gets a memorial and we don't have to rob our Engels statues from the former soviet bloc


Is there a website where I can get one for my back garden?


----------



## JimW (Aug 23, 2017)

They could compromise by adding a figure of Giant Haystacks grappling the hero of Trafalgar so it's just a half-Nelson.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 23, 2017)

I'd like to see Mr Blobby on the plinth


----------



## cantsin (Aug 23, 2017)

no-no said:


> A fairly worded plaque should suffice in most cases I reckon....not keen on pulling down statues. More keen on building new ones of a more diverse nature.



wtf for ?

what political / historical related statutes have bought what benefits, to whom / when / where / when ?


----------



## no-no (Aug 23, 2017)

You'd rather spend the money on something more practical?


----------



## 19force8 (Aug 23, 2017)

cantsin said:


> wtf for ?
> 
> what political / historical related statutes have bought what benefits, to whom / when / where / when ?


NHS, pensions, employee rights, equality and discrimination laws etc. benefited millions of people.

But if you meant statues, they obviously benefit nobody at all, ever [sarcasm]. No doubt that's why our rulers are so keen to spend money on producing and maintaining them.


----------



## no-no (Aug 23, 2017)

Fair point....I'd rather name a school or hospital ward after someone right on than have another statue in a square.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2017)

the quality of comments on the guardian has really gone downhill


Conservationists slam 'hateful' survey promoting wasp killing


----------



## NoXion (Aug 24, 2017)

I too say fuck wasps.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I too say fuck wasps.


yeh but you don't say it on the guardian website and let everyone know you're a vapid spheksophobe


----------



## NoXion (Aug 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but you don't say it on the guardian website and let everyone know you're a vapid spheksophobe


 Only because I've forgotten my login details.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 27, 2017)

www.theguardian.com/media/2017/aug/27/journalists-arent-elite-or-any-other-social-class


----------



## J Ed (Aug 27, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> www.theguardian.com/media/2017/aug/27/journalists-arent-elite-or-any-other-social-class



This is ace.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 27, 2017)

Did they only print half of it or something - it seems to be missing the bit where it makes some sort of argument based on facts or logic. And is about 37 words long.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 27, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> www.theguardian.com/media/2017/aug/27/journalists-arent-elite-or-any-other-social-class



I for one think it's ridiculous that the people who tell us all what to think are considered part of 'the establishment'.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 27, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Did they only print half of it or something - it seems to be missing the bit where it makes some sort of argument based on facts or logic. And is about 37 words long.



I don't think there is any real possible second half to the first half, apart from perhaps something like 'just joking lol'.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 27, 2017)

He doesn't joke - he's there to give sage elderly words on the sacred  profession of journalism. And that's exactly  what he thought he was doing there -and what the current editor let him do. The Guardian did turn to shit under his long-term editorship so i suppose there's a logic behind publishing this stuff.


----------



## bemused (Aug 27, 2017)

I love the equivalence between journos and ordinary folks.

Although I won't link it here the best illustration I've ever seen of journos being caught out pretending to be ordinary folks is when Richard Littlejohn asked if Polly Toynbee was going to stop flying to her villa in Tuscuny as she lectured us all on climate change.


----------



## Nylock (Aug 28, 2017)

I doubt littlecock was in the UK at the time he wrote that. Toynbee's a twat but he's an odious slug.


----------



## sihhi (Aug 28, 2017)

This is the worst article I have read all month. Go Macron attack, attack, attack at home:

Macron will never be Europe’s saviour if he keeps playing to the populists

Macron is not irreversibly damaged yet. The eurozone economy is doing better these days. Some trade unions do support his reforms. But to successfully lead his nation, Macron will need to deploy more energy on the domestic front rather than seek disputes abroad.

Cover the title and it is The Times.


----------



## stavros (Aug 28, 2017)

Dead woman still dead shocker.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 29, 2017)

More peak guarianism:
I’m turning 40 without a partner, children or parents – and I’m free | Steven W Thrasher



> Leading my unusual life at 40 has its perks. My life is interesting. I travel the world. I read, write, teach and think for a living. I get to meet people in jails, at academic conferences and in classrooms. I’ve experienced the uprising and the teargas of the Black Lives Matter in Ferguson, Baltimore and New York. I went to the White House correspondents’ dinner with Gary the dog and his human, Carrie Fisher. I’ve hiked the Rockies, the Alps and the Himalayas and have backpacked in pre-dawn darkness to watch the sunrise on Angkor Wat and Taj Mahal.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 29, 2017)

Wilf said:


> More peak guarianism:
> I’m turning 40 without a partner, children or parents – and I’m free | Steven W Thrasher
> Leading my unusual life at 40 has its perks. My life is interesting. I travel the world. I read, write, teach and think for a living. I get to meet people in jails, at academic conferences and in classrooms. I’ve experienced the uprising and the teargas of the Black Lives Matter in Ferguson, Baltimore and New York. I went to the White House correspondents’ dinner with Gary the dog and his human, Carrie Fisher. I’ve hiked the Rockies, the Alps and the Himalayas and have backpacked in pre-dawn darkness to watch the sunrise on Angkor Wat and Taj Mahal.



'all these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain'


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 29, 2017)

Wilf said:


> More peak guarianism:
> I’m turning 40 without a partner, children or parents – and I’m free | Steven W Thrasher



It's not journalism and hardly cutting edge but it's not really offensive, either. Or did I miss something?


----------



## crossthebreeze (Aug 29, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> It's not journalism and hardly cutting edge but it's not really offensive, either. Or did I miss something?


Because most of the stuff he mentions is just not attainable for most single nearly-40 year olds with no kids or parents or mortgage. Even being able to drop everything to protest in multiple different cities!  Great he's got a nice life and all, but its all got a lot to do with money and class, and he can fuck off for this line: "We get to dream big, radical political dreams and work toward making them real without worrying about a mortgage." Just the definition of smugness.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 29, 2017)

crossthebreeze said:


> Because most of the stuff he mentions is just not attainable for most single nearly-40 year olds with no kids or parents or mortgage. Even being able to drop everything to protest in multiple different cities!  Great he's got a nice life and all, but its all got a lot to do with money and class, and he can fuck off for this line: "We get to dream big, radical political dreams and work toward making them real without worrying about a mortgage." Just the definition of smugness.



Is he not just giving guardian readers what they want? The feel good factor, as it were...

Sure it's smug and all but does it make him a bad person?


----------



## Wilf (Aug 29, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> 'all these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain'


----------



## Wilf (Aug 29, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Is he not just giving guardian readers what they want? The feel good factor, as it were...
> 
> Sure it's smug and all but does it make him a bad person?


CTB said it really, but on your question, no. It doesn't in itself make him a bad person, I'm sure he's personally fine if, as you say, smug.  But it's about the guardian, promoting somebody who seems to have the wealth and choices denied to most other 40 year olds.  And yes, it *is* the guardian talking to it's own demographic - that *is* the point.

Edit: and even more, with this tidal wave of lifestyle stories, it's the guardian promoting youngish professional middle class people as a group worthy of sympathetic attention.  In a tiny way, this kind of journalism enhances the power of this group.


----------



## The Pale King (Aug 29, 2017)

Wilf said:


>



Fucking beautiful prose - I am weeping just reading it. In the rain


----------



## Wilf (Aug 29, 2017)

In fact we should institute an Urban Rutger Hauer Award for the best Guardianista Lifestyle piece. Dotcom to chair the panel of judges.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 29, 2017)

In fact we'll use this test to identify potential Lifestyleists:


----------



## petee (Aug 29, 2017)

Does constantly photographing my life ruin it, or help me remember it?


----------



## mather (Aug 31, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> It's not journalism and hardly cutting edge but it's not really offensive, either. Or did I miss something?



The Guardian has a thing for not liking parenting, kids and babies. Seen quite a few articles long these lines, talking about how being a parent takes away your life etc... As if these middle class singletons and their vapid lives based on smug posturing and vapid consumerism are of any benefit to society.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

mather said:


> The Guardian has a thing for not liking parenting, kids and babies. Seen quite a few articles long these lines, talking about how being a parent takes away your life etc... As if these middle class singletons and their vapid lives based on smug posturing and vapid consumerism are of any benefit to society.



I've never seen the attraction of parenting etc, myself, tbh. I'm not sure how breeding benefits society. But each to their own and all that.


----------



## mather (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> I've never seen the attraction of parenting etc, myself, tbh.



You bring new life into the world, a whole new person who will experience the warmth of your love as you would theirs. You get to experience seeing them grow, develop and become their own person and in the early years you will be central to that amazing process. I would love to have a family, but probably won't because of personal circumstances (I care for my brothers) and that I may never have enough money to start a family.



krtek a houby said:


> I'm not sure how breeding benefits society.



Are you for real? Without breeding, there would be no society and all human endeavours would become worthless and pointless. Having kids is probably the biggest contribution you could ever make, you are creating the next generation who will not only make up the society of the future, but shape it as well.

Anyways, my gripe is not with people who choose not have kids and leave it at that, it's the Guardian types who use their single status to point fingers and lecture people who do have kids as somehow living a life not as worth as much as theirs. As I said these types of articles make it into that rag every now and then.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

mather said:


> Are you for real? Without breeding, there would be no society and all human endeavours would become worthless and pointless. Having kids is probably the biggest contribution you could ever make, you are creating the next generation who will not only make up the society of the future, but shape it as well.
> 
> Anyways, my grip is not with people who choose not have kids and leave it at that, it's the Guardian types who use their single status to point fingers and lecture people who do have kids as somehow living a life not as worth as much as theirs. As I said these types of articles make it into that rag every now and then.



I also fail to see the benefit of society and human endeavours. To me, they are pretty much worthless and pointless as it is. I'd say the future is pretty much fucked but then again, I'm in a pessimistic place, currently!

If people want to have kids or not,I'm great with that. I just couldn't imagine bringing a child into this dreadful, selfish, dark place. Guardian articles or no.

I still read it online and there's the occasional excellent article; Monbiot and a few other contributors. The lifestyle stuff is just... nothing to get irked over.

Tell you this; I would love one of you erudite and knowledgeable folks to have a regular column in the Graun. Seriously; telling it like it is, dismissing the middle class singletons (middletons?) and highlighting the anti-Corbyn bias etc. For proper balance. I'm not taking the piss, btw. It would be great.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> I also fail to see the benefit of society and human endeavours. To me, they are pretty much worthless and pointless as it is. I'd say the future is pretty much fucked but then again, I'm in a pessimistic place, currently!


Break a leg or develop a serious life threatening illness, then you'll see the value of society and human endeavour pretty bloody clearly.

Or "breed" even.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 1, 2017)

I know, what is it with this nasty anti-humanism. I'm not sure if it's getting more common or I'm just noticing it more at the moment.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I know, what is it with this nasty anti-humanism. I'm not sure if it's getting more common or I'm just noticing it more at the moment.



Sorry; don't mean to be grim. Is anti-humanism a bit like a _machine that kills progressives_?


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 1, 2017)

No it's a philosophy that dismisses the benefits of society and human endeavours and reduces having children to "breeding"


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> No it's a philosophy that dismisses the benefits of society and human endeavours and reduces having children to "breeding"



What is killing progressives about, then? It's hardly pro-humanism, is it?


----------



## Libertad (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> What is killing progressives about, then? It's hardly pro-humanism, is it?



Yes it is. There, chew on that.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

Libertad said:


> Yes it is. There, chew on that.



I must regrettably disagree.WhilstI agree the tone taken in the Graun seems to cater for a niche audience and a lot of the output can be very self induglent; I would say that a proper response to the authors/journalists etc might be to point out their viewpoint as being out of touch or smug or whatever.

 I don't see them as being anti-humanist or the scourge of the earth,though.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> What is killing progressives about, then? It's hardly pro-humanism, is it?


I oppose _progressive_ politics precisely because it is anti-social, because it hurts and kills


----------



## J Ed (Sep 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I know, what is it with this nasty anti-humanism. I'm not sure if it's getting more common or I'm just noticing it more at the moment.



Next natural step of neoliberalism isn't it? There's no such thing as society, I'm not paying _for them lot_. Why should I pay for that thing?


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I oppose _progressive_ politics precisely because it is anti-social, because it hurts and kills



Do you mean stuff like austerity and privatisation etc? In that case,I entirely agree. It gets confusing though when far right commentators use the word _progressive_ as something "leftists" support. Not on urban, mind.
Elsewehere, this article is quite interesting. Is this what you mean on a wider scale? It's from a while back

At some point, U.S. progressives must stand | The Japan Times


----------



## J Ed (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Do you mean stuff like austerity and privatisation etc? In that case,I entirely agree. It gets confusing though when far right commentators use the word _progressive_ as something "leftists" support. Not on urban, mind.
> Elsewehere, this article is quite interesting. Is this what you mean on a wider scale? It's from a while back
> 
> At some point, U.S. progressives must stand | The Japan Times



Progressive is an utterly meaningless term which anyone can and does claim.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Next natural step of neoliberalism isn't it? There's no such thing as society, I'm not paying _for them lot_. Why should I pay for that thing?



Who's not paying for who? What thing?


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Progressive is an utterly meaningless term which anyone can and does claim.



I've seen and heard very right wing people claim ownership of "class" issues and sneer at identity politics,so yes,I guess you're right. 
It's similar to the whole "pc" mantra which has been discussed ad nauseum, right and left, for what,the last 20 years?
Like table tennis, the terms bounce back and forth with increasing rapidity and it all gets very confusing!!!


----------



## J Ed (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Who's not paying for who? What thing?



I'm saying that neoliberalism atomises people, and at least attempts to kill off any sense of social solidarity and respect for each other. For some that ideology appears to have become so ingrained that they are applying it to their families or not having families at all because of it. Interestingly, I think you can see this most clearly actually with the far-right where it is an issue that has actually become politicised, ironic given that so much of their politics is based around fear about birth rates.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I'm saying that neoliberalism atomises people, and at least attempts to kill off any sense of social solidarity and respect for each other. For some that ideology appears to have become so ingrained that they are applying it to their families or not having families at all because of it. Interestingly, I think you can see this most clearly actually with the far-right where it is an issue that has actually become politicised, ironic given that so much of their politics is based around fear about birth rates.


This sort of stuff?



> I also fail to see the benefit of society and human endeavours. To me, they are pretty much worthless and pointless as it is.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I'm saying that neoliberalism atomises people, and at least attempts to kill off any sense of social solidarity and respect for each other. For some that ideology appears to have become so ingrained that they are applying it to their families or not having families at all because of it. Interestingly, I think you can see this most clearly actually with the far-right where it is an issue that has actually become politicised, ironic given that so much of their politics is based around fear about birth rates.



On a personal level,I don't hate people having families and all that. I'm just out of love with humanity currently - it's certainly not a political choice or angle on my part!
Anecdotage but I knew a lad who has become more right leaning in his years on the planet and he still believes every life is sacred and that its selfish of people not to have kids! That really addled my brain (even further) so I don't know how to confront that kind of thinking.

Getting back to the Graun article and that fella's single life - I'm being charitable here buuuut, perhaps he's celebrating his single status, in much the way parents celebrate their family. Maybe he even feels he has to celebrate his non parent status because all around him are expanding.

I'd like to wake up tomorrow and feel a sense of solidarity with all people. Regardless of their status. But it's so fucking depressing the moment you switch on the news or read a commetnts section on an article...


----------



## NoXion (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> I'd like to wake up tomorrow and feel a sense of solidarity with all people. Regardless of their status. But it's so fucking depressing the moment you switch on the news or read a commetnts section on an article...



Get rid of your television. I'm serious. TV news is utterly shite these days, adverts are obnoxious and unavoidable corporate propaganda, and all the shit that you would actually want to watch is available via torrenting or streaming over the internet. Get rid of your television.

As for comments on news articles, please bear in mind that that the group of people who go to the trouble of signing up and commenting are a very self-selecting group who are a tiny fraction of humanity in general and thus cannot be taken as representative. The opinions they express are representative of the views of people who comment on news articles, nothing more. To think otherwise is like thinking that the pub bore is the template of humanity.


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2017)

Ah, he reads the comments. That explains a lot.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 1, 2017)

killer b said:


> Ah, he reads the comments. That explains a lot.


I admit to having a look sometimes, because I have an interest in what sort of memes and tropes are popular among opinionated fuckwits at the moment.

But I remain of the opinion that humans in general are neither inherently good nor inherently evil.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Get rid of your television. I'm serious. TV news is utterly shite these days, adverts are obnoxious and unavoidable corporate propaganda, and all the shit that you would actually want to watch is available via torrenting or streaming over the internet. Get rid of your television.
> 
> As for comments on news articles, please bear in mind that that the group of people who go to the trouble of signing up and commenting are a very self-selecting group who are a tiny fraction of humanity in general and thus cannot be taken as representative. The opinions they express are representative of the views of people who comment on news articles, nothing more. To think otherwise is like thinking that the pub bore is the template of humanity.



Getting rid of telly is not going to happen - for now. I have to get my various news fixes and Netlfix! Ads I just fwd or zone out. But I have cut down a lot. After redundancy I watched any old shite, which probably was a mistake but these days I'll have maybe 3 books on the go; even on my phone which I never did before.We'll see.

Yeah, the comments thing is a horrible habit. I have resisted the urge to sign up on the Graun and yell "fuck you" at all and sundry, tempting as itis. Here I took a break for wee while just to get my head sorted, but its still the voice of reason. Even if I'm not entirely on board on all subjects. Despite my misanthropic moments I do hope for coherence and cohesion.to find a way out of the confusion and maelstrom and gain some kind of enlightenment.

Not going to find that in the Graun, obvs. But its still a daily thing, whether I agree with the sentiments or no. Certainly their anti-Corbyn bias was hateful and transparent but that backfired delightfully in the elections...


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 1, 2017)

killer b said:


> Ah, he reads the comments. That explains a lot.



Sure; doesn't everyone? It's like masturbation, right? Those who claim they don't are telling porkies...


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Do you mean stuff like austerity and privatisation etc? In that case,I entirely agree. It gets confusing though when far right commentators use the word _progressive_ as something "leftists" support. Not on urban, mind.


I mean the politics of Labour, the ALP, of the Democrats, of the Women's Equity Party, of liberals that champion their anti-racist, anti-sexist credentials while attacking what remains of the welfare state, of those of swoon over the EU and it's "freedom of movement", of those who dismiss millions of people as racists because they voted to Leave or didn't vote at all, of those who attack humanity.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> Getting rid of telly is not going to happen - for now. I have to get my various news fixes and Netlfix! Ads I just fwd or zone out. But I have cut down a lot. After redundancy I watched any old shite, which probably was a mistake but these days I'll have maybe 3 books on the go; even on my phone which I never did before.We'll see.



Netflix isn't on TV, it's streamed over the internet, so unless they've launched a broadcast channel while I wasn't looking, you're partly there already. Personally I prefer to use unofficial streaming services and have adblocker software and similar protection out the wazoo for the simple fact that every minute I spend zoning out of some advertisement is another minute of my precious and singular life wasted.

If you wanna keep up with the news, I strongly recommend that you read it rather than watch it. It gives you time to think and digest the stuff you're taking in, rather bombarding you with a slick presentation designed to circumvent the more rational part of our brains and slam down on all the buttons in the more fearful, reptilian part of the brain that concerns itself with immediate survival and precious little else. Reading the news on the internet rather than watching it on the TV also enables you to easily cross-reference what you're reading with other sources, which is also a great help for cutting through hype and bullshit.


> Yeah, the comments thing is a horrible habit. I have resisted the urge to sign up on the Graun and yell "fuck you" at all and sundry, tempting as itis. Here I took a break for wee while just to get my head sorted, but its still the voice of reason. Even if I'm not entirely on board on all subjects. Despite my misanthropic moments I do hope for coherence and cohesion.to find a way out of the confusion and maelstrom and gain some kind of enlightenment.
> 
> Not going to find that in the Graun, obvs. But its still a daily thing, whether I agree with the sentiments or no. Certainly their anti-Corbyn bias was hateful and transparent but that backfired delightfully in the elections...



Try reading websites other than the Guardian, and keep in mind that all news websites will have some kind of bias or another.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 1, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Netflix isn't on TV, it's streamed over the internet, so unless they've launched a broadcast channel while I wasn't looking, you're partly there already. Personally I prefer to use unofficial streaming services and have adblocker software and similar protection out the wazoo for the simple fact that every minute I spend zoning out of some advertisement is another minute of my precious and singular life wasted.
> 
> If you wanna keep up with the news, I strongly recommend that you read it rather than watch it. It gives you time to think and digest the stuff you're taking in, rather bombarding you with a slick presentation designed to circumvent the more rational part of our brains and slam down on all the buttons in the more fearful, reptilian part of the brain that concerns itself with immediate survival and precious little else. Reading the news on the internet rather than watching it on the TV also enables you to easily cross-reference what you're reading with other sources, which is also a great help for cutting through hype and bullshit.
> 
> ...


A lot of people use smart TVs for Netflix. I use my TV for it via the PS3.


----------



## andysays (Sep 1, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> I also fail to see the benefit of society and human endeavours. To me, they are pretty much worthless and pointless as it is...



I suspect that much of society and humanity feels similarly about you, TBH


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2017)

Bit much andy


----------



## mather (Sep 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Progressive is an utterly meaningless term which anyone can and does claim.



Indeed, even a fascist can be progressive.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I mean the politics of Labour, the ALP, of the Democrats, of the Women's Equity Party, of liberals that champion their anti-racist, anti-sexist credentials while attacking what remains of the welfare state, of those of swoon over the EU and it's "freedom of movement", of those who dismiss millions of people as racists because they voted to Leave or didn't vote at all, of those who attack humanity.



That's a vast swathe of humanity you're attacking there,mind


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 2, 2017)

Here's something someone shared on my FB the other day. Sort of feels like it could be onthe Graun.

Robert Webb, professional funnyman and anti-Corbynite has this to say on gender
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/08/3...der-nonsense-to-his-children-and-its-amazing/

This is idenity politics, have I got that right?

Didn't he switch back to Labour afterRussell Brand urged people not to vote? Do people take these "celebs" seriously?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 2, 2017)

That's not a guardian article.
And fair play to what he says.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2017)

Mark Thompson: ‘A second Brexit referendum risks seeming like a stab in the back by the elite’

subheading chooses to use a phrase of unfortunate provenance (from the interviewee). Now does the interviewee know what he's saying there and did the sub ed (or whoever does the headlines) know.

I have my suspicions


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Mark Thompson: ‘A second Brexit referendum risks seeming like a stab in the back by the elite’
> 
> subheading chooses to use a phrase of unfortunate provenance (from the interviewee). Now does the interviewee know what he's saying there and did the sub ed (or whoever does the headlines) know.
> 
> I have my suspicions


Of course they know - the allusion was _chosen_.


----------



## cantsin (Sep 3, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> That's not a guardian article.
> And fair play to what he says.



Webb's anti Corbo shchtick is painful, but sounds like he / partner are walking the walk here, pretty progressive stuff ( in a genuine sense - though feels pretty rinsed this week, Book of the Week R4 everyday etc - and am left wondering about liberalism/how fwd thinking he can be re: gender, while clinging on to such apparently regressive wider political perspectives etc )


----------



## bemused (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm not convinced that cutting off low wage labour from the EU is a bad thing, maybe it'll push up wages for the low paid here  .... who knows?

However, this 'scoop' seems to boil down the British government wanting EU nationals to have pretty much the same rules applied to them as non-EU folks coming here for work.

Leaked document reveals UK Brexit plan to deter EU immigrants

I suspect at some point the bar for immigration entry will be lowered as industries that rely on low wages start to struggle ... care homes etc.


----------



## bemused (Sep 6, 2017)

Following up on the scoop that after Brexit the UK government wants pretty much the same rules for EU members than everyone else, the Guardian is now reporting that industries which rely on poorly paid labour aren't happy with these plans:

Leaked immigration plans 'catastrophic' for industry, say employers


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 10, 2017)

Fearne Cotton webchat.  Fearne Cotton webchat – your questions answered on Keith Lemon, Teletubbies and the future of radio


----------



## Sue (Sep 10, 2017)

Another appalling article from Georgina Lawton. How the hell did she ever get this Guardian gig..? 

Is it wrong to resent going Dutch on a Tinder date?


----------



## killer b (Sep 11, 2017)

Sue said:


> Another appalling article from Georgina Lawton. How the hell did she ever get this Guardian gig..?
> 
> Is it wrong to resent going Dutch on a Tinder date?


Ha, I googled her to see who her parents are after I read that, but I've been unable to work it out so far...


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 11, 2017)

killer b said:


> Ha, I googled her to see who her parents are after I read that, but I've been unable to work it out so far...


One of her articles appeared earlier in this thread - her dad died and she found out he wasn't actually her biological father and consequently her relationship with her mum is quite strained. 

She seems to be using her guardian column to work through a lot of the issues raised.


----------



## sihhi (Sep 11, 2017)

"Imagine if Brexit, as the pound death-spirals to parity with the euro and the City of London starts to relocate jobs elsewhere, could be arrested or modified."

Weirdos.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 11, 2017)

What. A. Load. Of. Shit.

Ikigai, lagom and Swedish death cleaning: my week looking for the new hygge


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 11, 2017)

balls


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 18, 2017)

The horror, the horror! 


> To be constantly questioned over what your parent thinks about this issue or that, to be forced to engage in a political conversation the minute they find out who your parent is, and to have friends, teachers, co-workers and random strangers tell you exactly what they think about your parent, even when what they have to say is not altogether nice.


Maybe your mum should be less of a cunt then


----------



## cantsin (Sep 18, 2017)

the internal struggles of the liberal 1 % ers 

How to be rich and morally worthy: the dilemma of wealthy New Yorkers


----------



## binka (Sep 18, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> The horror, the horror!
> 
> Maybe your mum should be less of a cunt then


Fascinating stuff it must have been awful for her with no possible benefits from people knowing her mother was Caroline Flint. The same Caroline Flint that just happened to be a Government Minister at the exact same time Hanna Flint got her first media internship in 2008


----------



## NoXion (Sep 22, 2017)

Primitivist twat:

I live a healthier life now I’m free of the trappings of modernity | Mark Boyle


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 24, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Primitivist twat:
> 
> I live a healthier life now I’m free of the trappings of modernity | Mark Boyle


The comments are not too bad, and quite interesting in parts. Most pointing out that he's able to live this lifestyle because others choose not, for example herd immunity and vaccinations, plus his good health allows him not to need modern medicine. His disdain for wheelchairs (but not bikes, which he uses) is somewhat odd at best. 

As someone reliant on medication, it's somewhat irritating to be lectured by a smug twat.


----------



## BemusedbyLife (Sep 24, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Primitivist twat:
> 
> I live a healthier life now I’m free of the trappings of modernity | Mark Boyle


if he slips and breaks something while strolling through the woods I am sure he will refuse a trip to the hospital to have it fixed


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 24, 2017)

BemusedbyLife said:


> if he slips and breaks something while strolling through the woods I am sure he will refuse a trip to the hospital to have it fixed


There's A Poultice For That


----------



## captainmission (Sep 24, 2017)

Britain's Elite is 97% White - Brought to you by the Henry Ford Foundation


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 24, 2017)

BemusedbyLife said:


> if he slips and breaks something while strolling through the woods I am sure he will refuse a trip to the hospital to have it fixed


He says ambulances are bad because they are made of chemicals. 

The postvans that deliver his handwritten missives are obviously made from wood and flowers, on the other hand... 

His rejection of modernity is somewhat inconsistent at best.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 24, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> The comments are not too bad, and quite interesting in parts. Most pointing out that he's able to live this lifestyle because others choose not, for example herd immunity and vaccinations, plus his good health allows him not to need modern medicine. His disdain for wheelchairs (but not bikes, which he uses) is somewhat odd at best.
> 
> As someone reliant on medication, it's somewhat irritating to be lectured by a smug twat.



What stands out to me is that he flat out admits that he would be shit outta luck in terms of his adopted lifestyle, if significant medical intervention were required. So primitive living is great. Until the point that it isn't.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Primitivist twat:
> 
> I live a healthier life now I’m free of the trappings of modernity | Mark Boyle


Published on the internet I note


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Published on the internet I note


Someone suggested the guardian should handwrite all the comments out and dispatch them back to him


----------



## scifisam (Sep 24, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Someone suggested the guardian should handwrite all the comments out and dispatch them back to him



At the end of the article it says they are going to post them to him 

The one good thing is that he's had a vasectomy.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 24, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> He says ambulances are bad because they are made of chemicals.
> 
> The postvans that deliver his handwritten missives are obviously made from wood and flowers, on the other hand...
> 
> His rejection of modernity is somewhat inconsistent at best.



This other Guardian article https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2017/sep/22/why-rejecting-the-modern-world-is-a-privileged-fantasy? 
(because it can be OK sometimes; only the Mail and Sun aren't) points out that he uses his Dad as an example of how you don't need to be unhealthy even when you're old _and_ mentions that an ambulance saved his dad's life.


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2017)

Giving Mac a run for his money here.


----------



## bemused (Sep 27, 2017)

.


----------



## LDC (Sep 27, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> He says ambulances are bad because they are made of chemicals.
> 
> The postvans that deliver his handwritten missives are obviously made from wood and flowers, on the other hand...
> 
> His rejection of modernity is somewhat inconsistent at best.



Nothing wrong with a bit of inconsistency, down the road of 100% consistency lies madness. He's still a twat though.


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 29, 2017)

Laura Kuenssberg: BBC titan who would 'die in a ditch for impartiality'



> *Laura Kuenssberg: BBC titan who would 'die in a ditch for impartiality' *



Puke.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 30, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Laura Kuenssberg: BBC titan who would 'die in a ditch for impartiality'
> 
> 
> 
> Puke.



Just the first part will be fine thanks, Laura.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 1, 2017)

No, they're protecting them from the police.


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 1, 2017)

the hardships


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Oct 1, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> the hardships



I saw that yesterday and knew I'd see it on this thread again!

And although the daughter did very well to blow so much money in such a short space of time it's hardly news, I did the same when I started uni.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 1, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> the hardships


She's been getting money out of her kid for years

School can be a lonely place if you're the only boarder

I’m a housewife, and that’s why I’m raising my daughters to be feminists

Do your homework on school fees

Adult and distance learning: why Hattie is virtually the star pupil at home school


----------



## J Ed (Oct 1, 2017)

The very definition of relatable content


----------



## Mordi (Oct 1, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> No, they're protecting them from the police.



Jesus Christ. I'm not even sure that's on purpose, they're just that fucking clueless.


----------



## mather (Oct 1, 2017)

Mordi said:


> Jesus Christ. I'm not even sure that's on purpose, they're just that fucking clueless.



Could be incompetence but then again maybe not. The Guardian is more or less opposed to Catalan self-determination, going by their coverage and the articles they choose to publish and like all good liberals they are not that keen on referendums, Brexit and all that.


----------



## Mordi (Oct 1, 2017)

mather said:


> Could be incompetence but then again maybe not. The Guardian is more or less opposed to Catalan self-determination, going by their coverage and the articles they choose to publish and like all good liberals they are not that keen on referendums, Brexit and all that.



They're also by default on the side of the cops, which makes me think that whichever copy editor was responsible for the caption assumes everyone else is too.


----------



## mather (Oct 1, 2017)

Mordi said:


> They're also by default on the side of the cops, which makes me think that whichever copy editor was responsible for the caption assumes everyone else is too.



That copy editor may well be right. Once stripped of it's socially liberal gloss, the Guardian is a reactionary rag.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 1, 2017)

You know who else rejected modern society and wrote manifestos about it? The unabomber.


----------



## mather (Oct 2, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> You know who else rejected modern society and wrote manifestos about it? The unabomber.



What are you on about?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 2, 2017)

The  Unabomber writing stuff where he  rejected modern society and wrote manifestos about it.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 2, 2017)

mather said:


> What are you on about?


I believe that equationgirl is referencing the article written by that primitivist twat that I linked to earlier.


----------



## mather (Oct 2, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I believe that equationgirl is referencing the article written by that primitivist twat that I linked to earlier.



Well then that is stupid, as if the two are remotely comparable. I'm not a primitivist but the modern world is far for perfect and many features of modern life can and should be viewed critically. Sometimes modernism comes across as a cult.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2017)

mather said:


> Well then that is stupid, as if the two are remotely comparable. I'm not a primitivist but the modern world is far for perfect and many features of modern life can and should be viewed critically. Sometimes modernism comes across as a cult.


I think there are a lot of parallels between what Mark Boyle is promoting, and the lifestyle and writings of the unabomber. I'm not saying boyle is about to start building pipe bombs by any means, just that there are interesting comparisons to be made. There was really good miniseries about the hunt for the unabomber recently, and some of the material presented was compelling, such as him being experimented on by Henry Murray, a psychologist who carried out a series of unethical experiments on undergraduates at Harvard. 

Perhaps mather would care to explain what he meant by 'that's stupid'. I'm not saying the modern world is perfect by any stretch of the imagination - consumerism has a lot to answer for, for example.


----------



## mather (Oct 3, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> I think there are a lot of parallels between what Mark boyle is us promoting, and the lifestyle and writings of the unabomber. I'm not saying boyle is about to start building pipe bombs by any means, just that there are interesting comparisons to be made.
> 
> Perhaps mather would care to explain what he meant by 'that's stupid'.



So if a peaceful, law abiding Muslim opposes and criticises US foreign policy and their military presence in the Middle East, would it be fair to compare and to try and link him/her with Al-Qaeda, given that AQ also make such criticisms of US policy in the Middle East.

It is a stupid link to make because the above example is one using that very same logic.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2017)

mather said:


> So if a peaceful, law abiding Muslim opposes and criticises US foreign policy and their military presence in the Middle East, would it be fair to compare and to try and link him/her with Al-Qaeda, given that AQ also make such criticisms of US policy in the Middle East.
> 
> It is a stupid link to make because the above example is one using that very same logic.


Did you read my post? I specifically said I was not saying what you claim I said.


----------



## mather (Oct 3, 2017)

Then why use the Unabomber specifically as an example if you were just trying to compare parallels between Boyle's views/lifestyle. Why not other primitivists, most of whom don't do terrorism, or back to the land hippies. Out of all the different examples you could have used as a comparison, why choose the Unabomber?


----------



## mather (Oct 3, 2017)

Just to add, I'm not a primitivist myself and there is a lot to criticise about it but that does not mean that the modern world is without criticism. I no more believe in the myth of a golden age as I do in the myth of progress.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2017)

mather said:


> Just to add, I'm not a primitivist myself and there is a lot to criticise about it but that does not mean that the modern world is without criticism. I no more believe in the myth of a golden age as I do in the myth of progress.


I also pointed out I do not believe the modern world is perfect. 

What do you mean by 'the myth of progress'?


----------



## mather (Oct 3, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> What do you mean by 'the myth of progress'?



That as time passes everything improves, across all areas and qualifications. That every facet of the modern is innately superior to that which preceded it and can only improve in the future. It is a view that sees everything moving in a purely linear fashion rather than things progressing or regressing according to the material condition and socio-economic conditions of the time. It allows no room for nuance even though history has never moved in such a neat and simplistic fashion.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 3, 2017)

_Guardian_ liveblogging about Steve Bannon - sorry, _Steve Bannen_ - sticking his oar in over Vegas:



> Former Donald Trump advisers Steve Bannen and Sebastian Gorka have rounded on Hillary Clinton after she called for more gun controls in the wake of the attack....Bannen accused Clinton of trying to politicise the attack.




Las Vegas death toll rises to 59 as weapon stockpile found at gunman's home – latest

That's despite the clear misspelling of the surname, and it even saying “White House Chief Strategist. Parody account” on the Twitter bio


----------



## scifisam (Oct 3, 2017)

mather said:


> Just to add, I'm not a primitivist myself and there is a lot to criticise about it but that does not mean that the modern world is without criticism. I no more believe in the myth of a golden age as I do in the myth of progress.



Criticising the modern world isn't the same as rejecting it though is it?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 3, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> _Guardian_ liveblogging about Steve Bannon - sorry, _Steve Bannen_ - sticking his oar in over Vegas:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now corrected


----------



## rekil (Oct 3, 2017)




----------



## killer b (Oct 3, 2017)

I'm not sure that headline totally reflects the contents of the article tbf.


----------



## rekil (Oct 3, 2017)

killer b said:


> I'm not sure that headline totally reflects the contents of the article tbf.


He gets there in the end. 


> The result, as the political economist Will Davies observes, is that the Conservatives have ended up defending capital rather than capitalism. They have championed finance and pretended it stands for all business. They have preached book-keeping when they needed to wield economics.


----------



## belboid (Oct 12, 2017)




----------



## J Ed (Oct 13, 2017)

Pro-Europeans have a champion: her name is Theresa May | Martin Kettle


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2017)

made the mistake of Reading the Comments. Wouldn't normally bother to share but this ones fucking gold:
on post-industrial leave towns voting leave and tory:



> They don't seem interested in Socialism. So I say "fuck 'em" - let's see how they get on with the untrammelled global free market at the hands of a bunch of raging sociopaths for a while. They're starting at the bottom of the greasy pole and will be trying to fight past people who're already far better at being pointy-elbowed than them. They may yet come back to the advantages of Socialism in due course.



yeah


----------



## J Ed (Oct 13, 2017)

Ocado man, rise up against the man or woman who delivers your food. It's the only way that they will learn.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2017)

that comments from a diff article, hold on, its not bad but the comments are as usual
Still puzzled by the Brexit vote? Take yourself off to Blakenall Heath | Giles Fraser: Loose canon


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Pro-Europeans have a champion: her name is Theresa May | Martin Kettle



"Cliffites". LOL.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 15, 2017)

Honestly guys being best mates with Tories is fine, just look at Jess Phillips and Frank Field, they're hanging out with Tories constantly...


----------



## The Pale King (Oct 15, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> Honestly guys being best mates with Tories is fine, just look at Jess Phillips and Frank Field, they're hanging out with Tories constantly...



Laura Pidcock's throwaway comment has kept the journey in Chablis for months. This article reads like propaganda


----------



## killer b (Oct 15, 2017)

They seem to have been unable to find anyone on the left of the party to help with their shit article. I wonder why that is.


----------



## Silas Loom (Oct 15, 2017)

killer b said:


> They seem to have been unable to find anyone on the left of the party to help with their shit article. I wonder why that is.



Because Diane Abbot hasn't yet found a new Tory best friend to replace Michael Portillo?


----------



## The Pale King (Oct 15, 2017)

_What seems to make the friendship tick, besides a shared irritation with knee-jerk tribalism, is a knack for reaching identical conclusions from different starting points.
_
Distilled centrism right there


----------



## killer b (Oct 15, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> Because Diane Abbot hasn't yet found a new Tory best friend to replace Michael Portillo?


or perhaps they weren't interested in joining in the graun's hit piece against one of their newest members?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> "Cliffites". LOL.


I heard that term used as a synonym for catamites not so long ago


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 15, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> _What seems to make the friendship tick, besides a shared irritation with knee-jerk tribalism, is a knack for reaching identical conclusions from different starting points.
> _
> Distilled centrism right there



Yeah I liked that bit, plus the sentence after:



> Their latest project is a campaign to give free school meals outside term time to children who would otherwise go hungry in the holidays, an idea Field got from his constituents but which for Soames seems more connected with a patrician sense of social responsibility.



"If you don't spend time buttering up the High Tory patrician sensibilities of Nicholas Soames you're taking food out of the mouths of poor kiddies, you monster."


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 15, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I heard that term used as a synonym for catamites not so long ago


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 15, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> Yeah I liked that bit, plus the sentence after:
> 
> 
> 
> "If you don't spend time buttering up the High Tory patrician sensibilities of Nicholas Soames you're taking food out of the mouths of poor kiddies, you monster."



YOu say "buttering up...Nicholas Soames", I say "giving Nicholas Soames a rimming". Boke!


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Oct 17, 2017)

this is really Guardian synchonicity from their website, but it amused me...


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2017)

Jonathan Freedland's latest is incredible.

Daphne Caruana Galizia’s murder shows where hatred of the media can lead | Jonathan Freedland


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 18, 2017)

killer b said:


> Jonathan Freedland's latest is incredible.
> 
> Daphne Caruana Galizia’s murder shows where hatred of the media can lead | Jonathan Freedland


I love it when article titles are so rampantly stupid that I'm saved the trouble of reading the article or even clicking on it.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 18, 2017)

I mean, obvs I don't read Freedland articles anyway, but that one's doubly unclickable.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2017)

here is a tidbit


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2017)

did we ever get confirmaton on the knaussberg bodyguard thing? I saw bullshit called on it, but I don't know either way


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2017)

She did have a bodyguard, of course. There's no reason you'd make up something so easily provable.

the only people calling bullshit were regular loons.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2017)

(she had one at the tory conference to fwiw)


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 18, 2017)

killer b said:


> Jonathan Freedland's latest is incredible.
> 
> Daphne Caruana Galizia’s murder shows where hatred of the media can lead | Jonathan Freedland



Freedland is such a vacuous self-satisfied tool it's not hard to imagine he genuinely sees writing mafia exposes and banging out lazy columns slagging off Jeremy Corbyn as much the same thing.

In fact Corbyn is much worse than the mafia, when you really think about it...


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 18, 2017)

killer b said:


> Jonathan Freedland's latest is incredible.
> 
> Daphne Caruana Galizia’s murder shows where hatred of the media can lead | Jonathan Freedland



Oh fuck off Jonathan.


----------



## hot air baboon (Oct 18, 2017)

is the Guardian in favour of the press writing "whatever they want" ?

_Most measures show that journalists, who are not trusted much at the best of times, are plumbing new depths. They badly need to show the public they are not afraid to be held to basic standards, something that is routine for people in most other walks of life._

'New press regulator will result in more false stories that victimise the weak'


----------



## Silas Loom (Oct 19, 2017)

Guardian Media Group to launch new £42 million venture capital fund - GMG Ventures

Money from successful past investments (MEN, Autotrader) previously looked after by sensible external firms, and the only bulwark against continuing GNM losses, now to be looked after by mad in-house people and chucked at high-risk, hairbrained ventures.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2017)

Not buying this byline.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Not buying this byline.
> 
> View attachment 118311








a belgian journo apparently


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Freedland is such a vacuous self-satisfied tool it's not hard to imagine he genuinely sees writing mafia exposes and banging out lazy columns slagging off Jeremy Corbyn as much the same thing.
> 
> In fact Corbyn is much worse than the mafia, when you really think about it...



Freedland lives in a fucking fantasy-land.  Some of his imaginings of anti-Semitism in the UK should have earned him a kicking from anti-Zionist Jews.  He's just lucky that we don't want to taint our footwear.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> a belgian journo apparently



Looks more like a Belgian paedo to me, or maybe it's just that any Belgiaan with facial topiary makes me think of Dutroux.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 20, 2017)

killer b said:


> here is a tidbit



Using the murder of a brave, crusading journalist who threatened the oligarchs who presumably had her killed in order to defend his own sclerotic media-based defence of that very same class.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2017)

How the Reformation sowed the seeds of Brexit | Martin Kettle

fuck off kettle


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 27, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> How the Reformation sowed the seeds of Brexit | Martin Kettle
> 
> fuck off kettle




I was going to write something about how the reformation was actually the inevitable result of an ever fractured church and the ability of government to once more take up the burdens of administration lost after the fall of Rome as nationalism and regional identity hardened.

Really the miracle is not that Britain broke free of the papacy but that the church survived for as long as it did post 700ad and evolved into a major player. Regional identity in religion has always been a factor in worship with local gods and tradition needing to be subsumed by wider religions before they gain traction. Once Kings were able to ignore the church they very much did so unless the region was unstable - note the difference between France and its anti-pope vs The HRE and its turbulent attempts to control Italy and its barons.


Then I thought fuck it, it's the guardian.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> How the Reformation sowed the seeds of Brexit | Martin Kettle
> 
> fuck off kettle


Not read the article but does mk say how the ref sowed the seeds of EU accession?


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 29, 2017)

From the Guardian Soulmates Blog.

*"Seven first date ideas in Bristol"*

 



Spoiler: In case you haven't spotted it ...



The photo is of a loony creationist spectacle in Somerset.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2017)

We can’t assume Britain is immune from Trump’s toxic politics | Rafael Behr

I thought this would go where it usually does but you have to wait for it....wait....





Spoiler: boom!



There is nothing original about the treatment of political institutions as weapons belonging to whoever has the means to snatch them and brandish them with ideological fervour. Nor is that desire exclusive to right or left. It animates nationalists and radical socialists alike.

Brexiters dislike Trump’s trade protectionism but were excited at the iconoclastic style of his victory. So too were some of Jeremy Corbyn’s firebrand supporters, even if they despise everything else about the US president. Revolutionary imaginations across the spectrum were stoked by the spectacle of raw willpower, populist zeal and organisational muscle upending conventional wisdom.


----------



## stavros (Nov 4, 2017)

A Jonathan Freedland piece which addresses conspiracies and fake news, before saying "antisemitism is itself often rooted in conspiracy theory". Because theology is completely rooted in the fully evidenced truth.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2017)

the groan notices that comic book heroes don't actually ever die a mere 27 years after the Death of Superman comic event in 1992


Justice League: why the only thing dying in blockbusters is our sense of excitement


----------



## NoXion (Nov 7, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the groan notices that comic book heroes don't actually ever die a mere 27 years after the Death of Superman comic event in 1992
> 
> 
> Justice League: why the only thing dying in blockbusters is our sense of excitement



I've always thought of superheroes as being the modern equivalent of demigods - Hercules would fit right in, if he doesn't already.

Demigods of course are rather noteworthy in being very hard to permanently put out of commission.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 7, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I've always thought of superheroes as being the modern equivalent of demigods - Hercules would fit right in, if he doesn't already.
> 
> Demigods of course are rather noteworthy in being very hard to permanently put out of commission.


the two men who came up with superman imagined a golem/hercules/heroic figure so its a reasonable take


----------



## D'wards (Nov 7, 2017)

Guardian going well in on the Paradise Papers, considering in 2008 they used a tax-exempt shell company in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying corporation tax when it sold its 50 per cent holding in AutoTrader to Apax Partners.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2017)

Britain once punched above its weight. Now we are irrelevant | Jonathan Powell

heres a blairite twat using 'our faded glory' type talk to bemoan brexit. Y'know displaying the nostalgia for empire and dominance that these people are all to quick to claim characterise the 'little englander brexiteer'

twat.


----------



## hot air baboon (Nov 13, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I've always thought of superheroes as being the modern equivalent of demigods - Hercules would fit right in, if he doesn't already.


----------



## hot air baboon (Nov 13, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Britain once punched above its weight. Now we are irrelevant | Jonathan Powell
> 
> heres a blairite twat using 'our faded glory' type talk to bemoan brexit. Y'know displaying the nostalgia for empire and dominance that these people are all to quick to claim characterise the 'little englander brexiteer'
> 
> twat.



going around "punching" hasn't been going too well for us lately - in any particular weight-division


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 13, 2017)

hot air baboon said:


> going around "punching" hasn't been going too well for us lately - in any particular weight-division


Apart from actual punching  where we near rule the world.


----------



## Silas Loom (Nov 13, 2017)

D'wards said:


> Guardian going well in on the Paradise Papers, considering in 2008 they used a tax-exempt shell company in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying corporation tax when it sold its 50 per cent holding in AutoTrader to Apax Partners.



Thing is, they spent the money on buying EMAP (with Apax) and put the rest into a long-term ringfenced investment fund. So actually no CT would have been payable. It was just that they left the complicated stuff to Apax.  And for a VC fund, putting everything offshore - just in case - is as natural as breathing.


----------



## stavros (Nov 13, 2017)

D'wards said:


> Guardian going well in on the Paradise Papers, considering in 2008 they used a tax-exempt shell company in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying corporation tax when it sold its 50 per cent holding in AutoTrader to Apax Partners.



I'm disappointed they don't seem to be pushing this left, right and centre. No other print paper is going to hammer this topic, so why not break the supposedly unwritten rule and call the proprietors of those rags to account? Le Monde, which I believe is one of the Graun's partners in the investigation, has a call to arms on tax dodging in their comments section today. The UK, being manager of the largest number of dodgy money boltholes around the world, should be at least following suit.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2017)

Portentous-yet-down-with-the-youth _Graun_ text:



> But it’s Xanax – the drug Lil Peep boasted about taking six of in a video hours before his death – that has become the most prevalent. Each pill is an oblong divided into five chunks, with X A N A X imprinted on each; as a design it has real visual impact that enhances its appeal.



Illustrative image linked to in the above:


----------



## JimW (Nov 16, 2017)

Four is the new five, man.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 17, 2017)

long piece today on the history and going forward of the paper- read half of it. They actually opposed the formation of the NHS, this is blamed on personal hatred of nye by the then editor lol. I struggle to think of any recent behaviour that might be similar...


----------



## ska invita (Nov 17, 2017)

Timothy Garton Ash has the answer as to how to "halt the rise of the international far right". Get ready for it:

"Every time we hear such views expressed, whether in the pub or the cafe, at the football ground or on Facebook, we need to speak up. It doesn’t have to be angry polemic. It can also be ridicule."

And thats it. Shout angrily or take the piss.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2017)

ska invita said:


> Timothy Garton Ash has the answer as to how to "halt the rise of the international far right". Get ready for it:
> 
> "Every time we hear such views expressed, whether in the pub or the cafe, at the football ground or on Facebook, we need to speak up. It doesn’t have to be angry polemic. It can also be ridicule."
> 
> And thats it. Shout angrily or take the piss.


He set up a foundation for rational debate a few years back. Don't say he doesn't do anything.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2017)

He just _generous - _not the unmentionable f-word.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 17, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> He just _generous - _not the unmentionable f-word.


Is that supposed to be about football, that article?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Is that supposed to be about football, that article?


The player he's lauding is a fascist.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 17, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The player he's lauding is a fascist.


Ah thanks, didn't go past the start.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Ah thanks, didn't go past the start.


Wouldn't matter if you'd read the whole thing - simply isn't mentioned. And the author knows damn well what he is.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 17, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Wouldn't matter if you'd read the whole thing - simply isn't mentioned. And the author knows damn well what he is.


Why the dishonesty do you think? The author is blinkered?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Why the dishonesty do you think? The author is blinkered?


I think he's been asked to do a piece about the retirement of a great (and he was a great) in a pretty bad situation - but, if they're going to an overview of his career then it needs mentioning i think. So maybe he did include it and it was cut or he was asked not to mention it.  Sort of all-round cowardice. There's no way anyone on the football part of a sports desk wouldn't be aware.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 17, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> I think he's been asked to do a piece about the retirement of a great (and he was a great) in a pretty bad situation - but, if they're going to an overview of his career then it needs mentioning i think. So maybe he did include it and it was cut or he was asked not to mention it.  Sort of all-round cowardice. There's no way anyone on the football part of a sports desk wouldn't be aware.


Shame it wasn't mentioned. It's that type of shoving things under the carpet that encourages the growth of fascism.


----------



## Silas Loom (Nov 17, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> Shame it wasn't mentioned. It's that type of shoving things under the carpet that encourages the growth of fascism.



Buffon isn't a card carrying fascist, by the way. He has explained away his request for an 88 shirt (four balls, apparently) and his use of Mussolini's "death to cowards" slogan (didn't know the origin, he said). Which is as far as the reasons to call him a fascist go. Not completely convincing, but he's no Paolo Di Canio. It's just about possible that he's as dozy as he claims. And so any reference to all this in an article would have needed to have all the disclaimers. It's not scandalous to omit it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 17, 2017)

'I see things differently': James Damore on his autism and the Google memo

Breathtakingly unchallenging interview with the ex-Google alt right arsehole which lets him get away with presenting the idea that if he’s offended anyone it’s because he’s autistic, with which large numbers of autistic people who are not alt right arseholes are not happy. Though the audience is people who like to believe they’re tolerant and understanding but in fact are very comfortable with the most dimwitted simplistic prejudices as long as they come with a pseudo-scientific paper hat, so they’ll be fine.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 17, 2017)

ska invita said:


> Timothy Garton Ash has the answer as to how to "halt the rise of the international far right". Get ready for it:
> 
> "Every time we hear such views expressed, whether in the pub or the cafe, at the football ground or on Facebook, we need to speak up. It doesn’t have to be angry polemic. It can also be ridicule."
> 
> And thats it. Shout angrily or take the piss.


This does challenge the above for “shittest guardian article” though. As well as the let’s all laugh at Hitler/discourse always wins thing I like the idea that Pence and everyone else have “failed” by doing exactly what they set out to do.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> Buffon isn't a card carrying fascist, by the way. He has explained away his request for an 88 shirt (four balls, apparently) and his use of Mussolini's "death to cowards" slogan (didn't know the origin, he said). Which is as far as the reasons to call him a fascist go. Not completely convincing, but he's no Paolo Di Canio. It's just about possible that he's as dozy as he claims. And so any reference to all this in an article would have needed to have all the disclaimers. It's not scandalous to omit it.


This, is how this happens.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> Buffon isn't a card carrying fascist, by the way. He has explained away his request for an 88 shirt (four balls, apparently) and his use of Mussolini's "death to cowards" slogan (didn't know the origin, he said). Which is as far as the reasons to call him a fascist go. Not completely convincing, but he's no Paolo Di Canio. It's just about possible that he's as dozy as he claims. And so any reference to all this in an article would have needed to have all the disclaimers. It's not scandalous to omit it.


30 seconds on that one btw folks. Let's guess how long he took after his next causally informed post. It could be on anything.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 17, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> 'I see things differently': James Damore on his autism and the Google memo
> 
> Breathtakingly unchallenging interview with the ex-Google alt right arsehole which lets him get away with presenting the idea that if he’s offended anyone it’s because he’s autistic, with which large numbers of autistic people who are not alt right arseholes are not happy. Though the audience is people who like to believe they’re tolerant and understanding but in fact are very comfortable with the most dimwitted simplistic prejudices as long as they come with a pseudo-scientific paper hat, so they’ll be fine.


Very long article, he does not come across very well indeed, nor does his girlfriend.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 18, 2017)

Silas Loom said:


> Buffon isn't a card carrying fascist, by the way. He has explained away his request for an 88 shirt (four balls, apparently) and his use of Mussolini's "death to cowards" slogan (didn't know the origin, he said). Which is as far as the reasons to call him a fascist go. Not completely convincing, but he's no Paolo Di Canio. It's just about possible that he's as dozy as he claims. And so any reference to all this in an article would have needed to have all the disclaimers. It's not scandalous to omit it.



Wow, an apologia from Loom.  Who would have guessed?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Wow, an apologia from Loom.  Who would have guessed?


i know you've liked this, vp but others could too Tory Death Spiral


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 18, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i know you've liked this, vp but others could too Tory Death Spiral



C'mon people, only 5 more likes of the post in the link above are needed.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 18, 2017)

One again the Guardian laments the lot of the poor forgotten landlord.

Landlady left with £9,500 rent arrears by tenant on universal credit


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 18, 2017)

emanymton said:


> One again the Guardian laments the lot of the poor forgotten landlord.
> 
> Landlady left with £9,500 rent arrears by tenant on universal credit



9,500 is enough to buy a _really _tiny violin.


----------



## captainmission (Nov 19, 2017)

_The Guardian _on why sexual assault is kind of ok when a democrat does it, or
_The Guardian_ on shut up women! We've got important work to be getting on with, or
_The Guardian_ on, when you think about it, isn't Hillary Clinton the real victim here?, or
_The Guardian_ on well no shit we've disabled the comments


----------



## newbie (Nov 19, 2017)

emanymton said:


> One again the Guardian laments the lot of the poor forgotten landlord.
> 
> Landlady left with £9,500 rent arrears by tenant on universal credit


it's what's going to break the UC rollout if anything is.  Much more persuasive to a Tory government than Corbyn bleating or some claimants on a demo.

Croydon _"council says it has suffered its own rent arrears problem since the new benefit was introduced. In February it said its rent collection rates had fallen from 91% to 59% for claimants."


_


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2017)

Piece in the guardian on bristol's housing crisis. They talk to a uni of bristol graduate who stayed here and runs a group demanding cheaper rents...for students, a director of hamiliton house from brighton  who is also a bristol uni graduate who stayed here, then another person whose represented as 'a worker' whose guess what, a bristol university graduate - then an apprentice (who i think is not from here either judging from facebook - and knowing engineers in the same company is going to be _doing very well_ quite soon), then the boss of  a capitalist bank whose roots lie in racist philosophy who lend to students to move to bristol, and who also moved into bristol, then finally another fucking bristol uni student. Not one single non-student incomer was talked to. Pathetic. Effectively a piece about the difficulties posh people face in moving to bristol and pushing the rents up etc for the people who didn't appear in their article at all. The line of kids living in vans by the cemetery 10 seconds away from me for example.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 24, 2017)

How to eat: beans on toast

I haven't read it and don't intend to.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2017)

emanymton said:


> How to eat: beans on toast
> 
> I haven't read it and don't intend to.



Me neither, but I note that the same author also did the following story a few weeks ago. I'm not reading this one either, just laughing at the headline.

The cult of natural wine – 'this is like punk or acid house'


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 24, 2017)

emanymton said:


> How to eat: beans on toast
> 
> I haven't read it and don't intend to.


"You want the cheese to be a distinct layer, a rich, waxy and boldly savoury contrast to the sweet, fibrous and tomato-y beans below" 
Paging Badgers


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 25, 2017)

emanymton said:


> How to eat: beans on toast
> 
> I haven't read it and don't intend to.


I read it, so the thread doesn't have to. 

I've read a fair amount of Tony naylor's work in various food magazines, and most of them aren't that wanky. This, however, is absolutely 100% pure guardian wank, and he should be shot for it. For shame, Tony, for shame.


----------



## rekil (Nov 25, 2017)

elbows said:


> Me neither, but I note that the same author also did the following story a few weeks ago. I'm not reading this one either, just laughing at the headline.
> 
> The cult of natural wine – 'this is like punk or acid house'


 Best bit. 


> This is wine’s punk or acid house, a generational schism (in 2014, the hugely influential US critic Robert Parker called natural wine a “scam”), in which young drinkers are rejecting the stuffy wine establishment. “Natural very much gets away from that ‘serious’ blazer-and-jeans wine world,” says Nuttall, of a scene that – hence the disparaging tag “hipster wine” – takes in Williamsburg’s Four Horsemen bar (owned by LCD Soundsystem’s James Murphy) and rapper Action Bronson. The presenter of Vice’s F*ck, That’s Delicious, Bronson has launched his own wine, À La Natural.


Murphy's bar with its whopping prices for teeny weeny portions looks as corduroy horrible as I'd expect.


----------



## J Ed (Nov 25, 2017)

wtf is this?

The Guardian view on Taylor Swift: an envoy for Trump’s values? | Editorial


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2017)

J Ed said:


> wtf is this?
> 
> The Guardian view on Taylor Swift: an envoy for Trump’s values? | Editorial


no idea if related but recently a blogger called her a nazi or something...just google taylor swift nazi for the thing I'm on about.

yeah I don't even know whats going on here but its apparently a talking point 
Who Said It, Adolf Hitler or Taylor Swift?

sigh


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> wtf is this?
> 
> The Guardian view on Taylor Swift: an envoy for Trump’s values? | Editorial


I remember reading that yesterday morning then wondering later whether I’d actually dreamt it. But no, there is a Guardian _editorial_ criticising Taylor Swift for not being vocally anti-Trump enough, not just a joke article in CIF.

There was a thing where some of the nuts on the alt right started fetishing her as a nice Aryan girl, but that really was just internet bullshit, though I suppose that’s what powers the guardian a lot of the time these days.


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 1, 2017)

No fewer than four pieces of pointless, fawning crap about Meghan Markle accessible from the homepage right now. And instead of just admitting what a craven bunch of arse-kissers they are they've gone for a 'Most left-wing Royal ever' angle. They've even roped in Chomsky.


----------



## stavros (Dec 2, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> No fewer than four pieces of pointless, fawning crap about Meghan Markle accessible from the homepage right now. And instead of just admitting what a craven bunch of arse-kissers they are they've gone for a 'Most left-wing Royal ever' angle. They've even roped in Chomsky.



Double page spread in today's print edition too.

The Indie had many faults, especially in its latter days, but at least it gave us sanctuary from the royal brown-nosing.


----------



## LDC (Dec 2, 2017)

_The Guardian_ does intersectional race politics.... 

Black American women celebrate falling barriers as Meghan Markle joins royals


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 3, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> _The Guardian_ does intersectional race politics....
> 
> Black American women celebrate falling barriers as Meghan Markle joins royals



All we need now is for every black woman in America to marry into the British royal family and inequality and racism are OVER!!!!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 3, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> All we need now is for every black woman in America to marry into the British royal family and inequality and racism are OVER!!!!


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 4, 2017)

Leaving the EU means we're all going to starve! 


> In comments that are likely to cause embarrassment for No 10, the Chapel Down boss, Frazer Thompson, said: “The biggest potential impact of Brexit is on agricultural labour. Kent has had eastern Europeans picking fruit in recent years, but we’ll all starve if the labour issue is not sorted after Brexit.”


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 4, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Leaving the EU means we're all going to starve!


a companion to saturdays 'NO MORE DONNER KEBABS AFTER BREXIT'


----------



## bemused (Dec 4, 2017)

Apparently, the fact that some superheroes are born into royalty or wealth is problematic. I know I've always found Batman hard to relate to because of his wealth.


----------



## Silas Loom (Dec 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> a companion to saturdays 'NO MORE DONNER KEBABS AFTER BREXIT'



You mean the article about the effect that EU rules on phosphates (or whatever it was) might have on kebab houses, here and in Germany? The one that a Brexiteer could actually seize upon as an example of the pettyfogging regulations from which we would soon be free?


----------



## hot air baboon (Dec 4, 2017)

...prising my kebab from my cold dead hand....


----------



## scifisam (Dec 4, 2017)

bemused said:


> Apparently, the fact that some superheroes are born into royalty or wealth is problematic. I know I've always found Batman hard to relate to because of his wealth.



Bit of an odd idea given that the vast majority of superheroes are not born into privilege. Batman and Iron Man really wouldn't work if they were poor anyway. Also Rey is not exactly the first Star Wars hero born into poverty unless Luke is suddenly a minor character now.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 4, 2017)

Rey's not a superhero either


----------



## bemused (Dec 4, 2017)

scifisam said:


> Bit of an odd idea given that the vast majority of superheroes are not born into privilege. Batman and Iron Man really wouldn't work if they were poor anyway. Also Rey is not exactly the first Star Wars hero born into poverty unless Luke is suddenly a minor character now.



I read it and pondered how light they are on stories that it even made the site.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 4, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Rey's not a superhero either



She has superpowers and fights for good (so far) so I reckon she counts.


----------



## bemused (Dec 4, 2017)

scifisam said:


> She has superpowers and fights for good (so far) so I reckon she counts.



She also manages to live alone on an Island with Luke without trying top him - that's a super power.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 4, 2017)

scifisam said:


> She has superpowers and fights for good (so far) so I reckon she counts.


she lives a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, not Earth, and she doesn't change into a superhero costume


----------



## scifisam (Dec 4, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> she lives a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, not Earth, and she doesn't change into a superhero costume



I don't think those matter as much as having superpowers and fighting for the side of good.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 4, 2017)

scifisam said:


> I don't think those matter as much as having superpowers and fighting for the side of good.


i think they have to have an alter ego at the very least


----------



## scifisam (Dec 4, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> i think they have to have an alter ego at the very least



Most of them do, but not all, like Thor (in the movies, at least) and also she might well have a different name to hide under in the next film. She's super and she's a hero and the rest is window dressing


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2017)

Just for a change, this is actually pretty good: The long read: Portugal's radical drugs policy


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 5, 2017)

TBF the long read articles are often good. Decent one on the Pope vs RC church and on academic publishing


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 8, 2017)

Wealthy Londoners call in Christmas decorators for up to £80,000


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 9, 2017)

In today's Gruaniad there's a big profile of Arlene Foster, which includes none other than Eoghan Harris vouching for her non-bigot status!

I don't know if the G. genuinely don't know what sort of head-the-ball Harris is, but I hope they don't know, because if they did they'd know that he was the last person to be considered an honest judge of whether or not any NI unionist is a bigot.

(He's a renegade Republican turned sticky Stalinist turned born-again Empire Loyalist - and given what I've heard from people who've met him over the years, he's not the full shilling either).


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Dec 9, 2017)

Latest steaming pile of horseshit from Cohen in a hatefest for leftists new and old:
What would it it take for Labour’s moderates to revolt?  | Nick Cohen


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 9, 2017)

It's a really fantastic piece, you can almost hear him crying into his fourth glass of Chardonnay as he types.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 10, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> It's a really fantastic piece, you can almost hear him crying into his fourth glass of Chardonnay as he types.



Has he stopped switching to vodka after the third glass of wine, then? Probably the vodka reminded too much of when he was actually a bit left-wing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 10, 2017)

Spectator column by the end of the decade, you mark my words. Maybe sooner.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 10, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Spectator column by the end of the decade, you mark my words. Maybe sooner.



Had no idea he wasn't already writing for the Spectator.


----------



## Sue (Dec 10, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Spectator column by the end of the decade, you mark my words. Maybe sooner.


He blogs for The Spectator apparently...

Nick Cohen - Wikipedia


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 10, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Had no idea he wasn't already writing for the Spectator.





Sue said:


> He blogs for The Spectator apparently...
> 
> Nick Cohen - Wikipedia



He does as well, I actually didn’t know that - Author: Nick Cohen | The Spectator

He seems to have written the same article for them last year too. What Labour needs now is a takeover by real left-wing radicals | The Spectator


----------



## Sue (Dec 10, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He does as well, I actually didn’t know that - Author: Nick Cohen | The Spectator
> 
> He seems to have written the same article for them last year too. What Labour needs now is a takeover by real left-wing radicals | The Spectator


Their token 'leftwinger' no doubt .


----------



## J Ed (Dec 10, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He does as well, I actually didn’t know that - Author: Nick Cohen | The Spectator
> 
> He seems to have written the same article for them last year too. What Labour needs now is a takeover by real left-wing radicals | The Spectator



Other opinion columnists, and lets face it not the hardest job in the world in the first place, must look very enviously at Nick Cohen's lot. Man just churns out the same article over and over.


----------



## Sue (Dec 10, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Other opinion columnists, and lets face it not the hardest job in the world in the first place, must look very enviously at Nick Cohen's lot. *Man just churns out the same article over and over.*


That's unfair. He sometimes varies the paragraph where he starts Corbofrothing (TM)


----------



## stavros (Dec 10, 2017)

This whole piece seems to be a several hundred word attempt to get into Pseuds Corner.


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 10, 2017)

I like the way he glosses over having written/starred in 2013s Blurred Lines by implying he learned to respect women by watching his partner birth/look after their child. Of course some terribly, terribly cynical folk might say this epiphany came a bit late on, given that his first child was born in 2008 and his (no doubt deeply held) conversion to feminism just so happened to come after a massive global backlash against some rapey lyrics he'd penned.


----------



## stavros (Dec 10, 2017)

His and Hugo's break-out hit was _Got Your Money_, a song about a pimp and one of his prostitutes.

A cracking tune, mind you.


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 10, 2017)

Tbh music and misogyny seems to be like football and homophobia — we all know it's rampant and horrible, but no-one wants to be the one to stop the show.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2017)

A challenge for John McDonnell: move the capital up the M1 | Jonn Elledge


----------



## Sue (Dec 17, 2017)

Brexit is putting me off this whole ‘will of the people’ idea | Matthew d’Ancona


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 18, 2017)

Sue said:


> Brexit is putting me off this whole ‘will of the people’ idea | Matthew d’Ancona



Matthew D'ancona puts me off the idea of people in general.

He's a prime example of someone with zero ability to actually write doing very well by simply spoon feeding middle england partially reconstituted knee-jerk bullshit.

When he moans about certain phrases being thoughtlessly parroted in pro-brexit circles you get the Impression he's actually only upset because none of his own catchy soundbites ('visceral collectivism' anyone?) ever seem to catch on. This must be because the proles are stupid, there's no other explanation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 18, 2017)

Sue said:


> Brexit is putting me off this whole ‘will of the people’ idea | Matthew d’Ancona


yeh it's always the way that things journos would in other circumstances support, they deplore when their cause is losing


----------



## killer b (Dec 18, 2017)

What the fuck Paul Mason?

_ In a dangerous world, nations divided by class have historically relied on the best-educated, richest and highest-trained people to think strategically on their behalf; not just the politicians, but the top lawyers, central bankers and civil servants. If they do that in times of crisis, as Orwell did in the second world war, you can forgive daft hats at Ascot and the crazy rigmarole of regimental dinners.

The British elite is at war with itself – on a scale we’ve never seen before | Paul Mason_


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 18, 2017)

Think it's intended as a sort of "this is the deal as envisaged by the dominant portion of our collective national psyche" thing rather than his personal view. Which is obv ridiculously simplistic but does have a persuasive ring given the fact Boris and Rees-Mogg are senior in Britain's most powerful political party rather than curios in a circus show titled _The Victorian Experience_. 

Personally I was more busy rolling my eyes at his visions of what a Corbyn government can realistically achieve.


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 18, 2017)

Yeah, what Rob Ray said. But it's just a terribly written piece of nonsense from start to finish. Obviously just bashed out X words for the editor.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 18, 2017)

killer b said:


> What the fuck Paul Mason?
> 
> _ In a dangerous world, nations divided by class have historically relied on the best-educated, richest and highest-trained people to think strategically on their behalf; not just the politicians, but the top lawyers, central bankers and civil servants. If they do that in times of crisis, as Orwell did in the second world war, you can forgive daft hats at Ascot and the crazy rigmarole of regimental dinners.
> 
> The British elite is at war with itself – on a scale we’ve never seen before | Paul Mason_


Tbh mostly we've been led by the stupid, feckless and reckless


----------



## The Pale King (Dec 19, 2017)

_This year’s crop of hypersentimental war movies remind us of why elites are useful: Kenneth Branagh as the naval commander in Dunkirk, stoically managing the evacuation; Julian Wadham as General Montgomery in Churchill, showing the calm leadership qualities that made the real-life Monty a hero to many of his soldiers; Gary Oldman as Churchill in Darkest Hour.

This world of cigarette smoke, woollen tank tops and deference is living memory for older people, but seems so alien to the young that it can be readily fictionalised using a few conventions. The main convention is that the British elite never loses its cool.
_
This, by Mason, reads like a Matthew d'Ancona column. It's bizarre, he's headed for mysticism here...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 21, 2017)

Younger, hipper, cooler: Harry and Meghan's engagement photos herald a new era of royal portraiture

fucking barf


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 21, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Younger, hipper, cooler: Harry and Meghan's engagement photos herald a new era of royal portraiture
> 
> fucking barf


none more loyal than the guardian


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 21, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> _This year’s crop of hypersentimental war movies remind us of why elites are useful: Kenneth Branagh as the naval commander in Dunkirk, stoically managing the evacuation; Julian Wadham as General Montgomery in Churchill, showing the calm leadership qualities that made the real-life Monty a hero to many of his soldiers; Gary Oldman as Churchill in Darkest Hour.
> 
> This world of cigarette smoke, woollen tank tops and deference is living memory for older people, but seems so alien to the young that it can be readily fictionalised using a few conventions. The main convention is that the British elite never loses its cool.
> _
> This, by Mason, reads like a Matthew d'Ancona column. It's bizarre, he's headed for mysticism here...


He's watched one too many war movies


----------



## Terry Manners (Dec 22, 2017)

Mason has literally turned into Phil Space.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2017)

Opinion: Winter

The guardian catering to all your needs for opinions on winter: The winter solstice isn’t a relief: it marks months of dashed hopes to come | Jenny Colgan


----------



## hot air baboon (Dec 22, 2017)

Terry Manners said:


> Mason has literally turned into Phil Space.



I can't help suspecting Mason's self image is very much along the lines of

 

wheras the reality is somewhat closer to


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 27, 2017)

NOW I HAVE BECOME GRAUNIAD, DESTROYER OF WORLDS

Margaret Atwood: the unlikely style soothsayer of 2017


----------



## scifisam (Dec 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 122941
> A challenge for John McDonnell: move the capital up the M1 | Jonn Elledge



Yeah because knocking down vast swathes of Manchester to host politicians would go down SO well.


----------



## stavros (Dec 28, 2017)

Is there anywhere in the British media which which isn't sycophantic to one anachronistic family?

The Guardian view on Prince Harry: the monarchy’s best insurance policy | Editorial


----------



## agricola (Dec 29, 2017)

An apology for youthful indiscretion:



> There’s plenty to make me cringe when I reminisce about my university days, and it doesn’t stop with my dodgy sense of style. If I’m honest, I feel a little shame-faced about the narrower world view I inhabited back then. One of the ways that manifested itself was the enthusiasm with which I threw myself into campaigning against tuition fees. Then, the government was proposing raising fees from £1,000 to £3,000 a year. Cue much passionate marching in student demos, earnest drafting of student union responses to government white papers, and letter-writing to MPs.
> 
> The reason I got so exercised about a fee hike that might seem fairly modest in the context of the £9,000 fees most universities are charging today, was that the university I went to, Oxford, had a big access problem (and indeed still does). Young people from working-class backgrounds were, and are, seriously under-represented. As someone who’d had all the benefits of a middle-class upbringing – including parents who nurtured my aspirations every step of the way – that struck me as deeply unfair, and I got very involved with our student union’s access-widening schemes. I thought higher fees would further discourage any young people who might think university wasn’t for them.
> 
> But I’ve changed my mind. Fees are certainly too high (most young people will never pay them back in full, so face what’s effectively a 9% graduate tax on any earnings over the graduate repayment threshold for 30 years after they graduate). But though it’s something the state should subsidise, I now believe it’s right that students who enjoy the benefits of a university education make a contribution towards its costs after they’ve graduated, if their earnings allow them to do so.


----------



## NoXion (Dec 29, 2017)

If most students never end up earning enough to pay back the fees, then what benefits are they enjoying exactly?

Also, one can be in favour of abolishing uni fees *and* be in favour of better funding for vocational/non-university education.


----------



## Mordi (Dec 29, 2017)

NoXion said:


> If most students never end up earning enough to pay back the fees, then what benefits are they enjoying exactly?
> 
> Also, one can be in favour of abolishing uni fees *and* be in favour of better funding for vocational/non-university education.



Strange, almost like there might be models of this outlandish scenario in the recent past or in other far off lands.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2017)

"Clegg’s knighthood, which was widely reported in advance, is set to be particularly controversial among leave supporters, given his continued campaigning in favour of EU membership and his new book How to Stop Brexit."

yes thats why Cleggs knighthood will prove controversial you myopic book-plugging lib dem rimming cunts


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Dec 30, 2017)

scifisam said:


> Yeah because knocking down vast swathes of Manchester to host politicians would go down SO well.


It sounds like a go’er. The new houses of parliament would not have to be right in the city centre. Trafford Park would be ok. 

Not been up there for years but I recall plenty of open space going down the M62 from the M6. I think it’s a good idea to move the houses of parliament up country somewhere.


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 30, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:


> It sounds like a go’er. The new houses of parliament would not have to be right in the city centre. Trafford Park would be ok.
> 
> Not been up there for years but I recall plenty of open space going down the M62 from the M6. I think it’s a good idea to move the houses of parliment up country somewhere.



I think it's vital to help redress the huge regional inequality in the UK, which is much worse than any other equivalent nation. London can remain the financial hub of the country, like New York is with the US, but move Parliament to Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds. Not least MPs should have to deal with public transport infrastructure outside London.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 30, 2017)

Move it to Redcar, plenty of space in the old steelworks.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 30, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> I think it's vital to help redress the huge regional inequality in the UK, which is much worse than any other equivalent nation. London can remain the financial hub of the country, like New York is with the US, but move Parliament to Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds. Not least MPs should have to deal with public transport infrastructure outside London.


Manchester is rapidly becoming nu-London, and whilst it has its benefits (like my job), it's pushing up prices for normal people and doing nothing for the rest of northern England, or indeed, anywhere but London and Manchester. Regional inequality needs to be addressed by actual redistribution, not just creating a second consolidation of wealth and facilities. So Parliament would be better put somewhere that isn't already doing OK.


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 30, 2017)

mauvais said:


> Manchester is rapidly becoming nu-London, and whilst it has its benefits (like my job), it's pushing up prices for normal people and doing nothing for the rest of northern England, or indeed, anywhere but London and Manchester. Regional inequality needs to be addressed by actual redistribution, not just creating a second consolidation of wealth and facilities. So Parliament would be better put somewhere that isn't already doing OK.



Hull, Coventry or Liverpool then? I do agree that there are larger problems and it's not the whole solution, of course. It'd be a start.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2017)

somewhere in the midlands. Theres shit transport and post industrial decline here as well. And its handy to everywhere else in the country by dint of being in the very middle. So, Northampton would be a perfect spot.


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 30, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> somewhere in the midlands. Theres shit transport and post industrial decline here as well. And its handy to everywhere else in the country by dint of being in the very middle. So, Northampton would be a perfect spot.


Lutterworth. Just off the M6/M1/A14 and it would really piss off my racist step sister.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 30, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> somewhere in the midlands. Theres shit transport and post industrial decline here as well. And its handy to everywhere else in the country by dint of being in the very middle. So, Northampton would be a perfect spot.



Put it in Corby imo


----------



## Santino (Dec 30, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Put it in Corby imo


Too confusing once London is re-named Corbyngrad sometime in 2019.


----------



## Mordi (Dec 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> somewhere in the midlands. Theres shit transport and post industrial decline here as well. And its handy to everywhere else in the country by dint of being in the very middle. So, Northampton would be a perfect spot.



Alan Moore would have an amazing meltdown. So I'm all in favour.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 31, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> I think it's vital to help redress the huge regional inequality in the UK, which is much worse than any other equivalent nation. London can remain the financial hub of the country, like New York is with the US, but move Parliament to Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds. Not least MPs should have to deal with public transport infrastructure outside London.


In books parliament always moves to harrogate


----------



## Mordi (Dec 31, 2017)

An amusing article by the not terrible George Monbiot, but definitely illustrates the perils of talking to journalists.




			
				Monbiot said:
			
		

> I stepped forward to speak to them, but with scarcely a word they grabbed me, pinioned my arms, tipped my rucksack upside down and started taking my tapes and films. I remembered with a sick jolt that among them was a tape I’d forgotten to remove from my bag, containing interviews with some of the peasants I’d spoken to. It could jeopardise their lives.


----------



## hot air baboon (Dec 31, 2017)

Santino said:


> Too confusing once London is re-named Corbyngrad sometime in 2019.



Lefty science fiction thread --------->


----------



## bemused (Jan 2, 2018)

Do they stack rank their authors' pictures in from less pretentious first to most last?


----------



## rekil (Jan 2, 2018)

And the punchline. 



> There is, though, one leader who may match her for courage and revolutionary zeal, and who may yet bring about another major shift in society. His name is Jeremy Corbyn.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 2, 2018)

Fucking hell, what a twat


----------



## mauvais (Jan 2, 2018)

I backed Owen Smith against Jeremy Corbyn. But I regret it now | Zoe Williams

A navel gazing, awkwardly-shuffling non-apology, 18 months after noone paid attention anyway. Presumably she gets paid twice for being wrong.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 2, 2018)

mauvais said:


> I backed Owen Smith against Jeremy Corbyn. But I regret it now | Zoe Williams
> 
> A navel gazing, awkwardly-shuffling non-apology, 18 months after noone paid attention anyway. Presumably she gets paid twice for being wrong.



yeah i was going to post that. no recognition that she is part of a bubble world who were uniformally and repeatedly  wrong about corbyn and still cant grasp why he won  - twice - , why owen smith was such an obviously shit candidate and why corbyn  did so well in the general election.
Whereas us plebs called it right. Maybe recruiting all your staff from the oxbridge chumocracy isn't the best strategy if you want people who have a vague clue about what actually goes on outside of your little glee club.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 2, 2018)

The NYT has been working on that basis for decades. Support the latest government action then apologise for it later down the line and promise never to be fooled again. Imagine all the pundits that abolishing this would put out of work


----------



## mauvais (Jan 2, 2018)

Also:


----------



## bemused (Jan 3, 2018)

Protesters on the streets, risking being murdered. Owen thinks they are fighting US domination ....


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 5, 2018)

the Guardian contains less information per colum ince than its right wing counterparts. IMO this  is an evil plan to stupify the Left .
Good to see Grumblemunters doing well for himself though


----------



## stavros (Jan 6, 2018)

"Colum ince"? This thread isn't the Grauniad itself, you know.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 6, 2018)

stavros said:


> "Colum ince"? This thread isn't the Grauniad itself, you know.


Fuck off you snotty idiot.  . I like the way you idiots react ti misspeltthreads.... shows how petty and irrelivent you and your world is.

oh ... unless you like the Guardian
...... or your Tory Boy  ??? Course yer not  He would have said somthing more cleverer


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 6, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Fuck off you snotty idiot.  . I like the way you idiots react ti misspeltthreads.... shows how petty and irrelivent you and your world is.
> 
> oh ... unless you like the Guardian
> ...... or your Tory Boy  ??? Course yer not  He would have said somthing more cleverer


So if you think this is irrelevant why did you join?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 6, 2018)

Dont get paranoid . I wasnt talking about the entire collective... just people who have no other contribution than a fucking spellcheck

Obviously i could focus on the gramma and spelling, or use a spellcheck. But the way my brain works is spitting words out in a flow ... and i like leaving an obvious error there because, as I say - it does expose people who obviously oppose the points i make but can`t articulate them. So, what i try do is grab that "You cant even spell" comment and interrogate it until i find out where they actually stand . Then we can have a debate that might enrich us.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 7, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Dont get paranoid . I wasnt talking about the entire collective... just people who have no other contribution than a fucking spellcheck
> 
> Obviously i could focus on the gramma and spelling, or use a spellcheck. But the way my brain works is spitting words out in a flow ... and i like leaving an obvious error there because, as I say - it does expose people who obviously oppose the points i make but can`t articulate them. So, what i try do is grab that "You cant even spell" comment and interrogate it until i find out where they actually stand . Then we can have a debate that might enrich us.


Okay. 

If it helps I make errors in my posts all the time - typos, even words missed out. My brain moves faster than my fingers sometimes and the predictive text on my phone is just plain weird. If I see them, I tend to go back an edit where I can, but I don't always notice. 

But there are uberpedants on here so brace yourself


----------



## planetgeli (Jan 7, 2018)

Weights & measures eh?


----------



## Combustible (Jan 8, 2018)

Apparently Bannon's favourite!


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 8, 2018)

RE: First post:
This is relevant, as the New York Times is the American equivalent of the Guardian, and the following would suggest an international decline in liberal media, steered by secret services and government departments after 9/11.

James Risen a former New York Times journalist through the 9/11 era has spoken out about the inherent filters in place within the commercial media.

My Life as a New York Times Reporter in the Shadow of the War on Terror




			
				James Risen said:
			
		

> My stories raising questions about the intelligence, particularly the administration’s claims of a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda, were being cut, buried, or held out of the paper altogether


----------



## bimble (Jan 10, 2018)

This is fucking abysmal. 'Look at me I am not a nazi and also my therapist is jewish. '
Why was I forced to spray paint over a Nazi slogan on a London bus stop? | Kay Holmes


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 10, 2018)

re:Bimble


> I wonder what I’d have done in Berlin in 1936.




Probably single-handedly stopped the rise of the National Socialists TBH. Almost makes me want to ...  no, it doesn't.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> This is fucking abysmal. 'Look at me I am not a nazi and also my therapist is jewish. '
> Why was I forced to spray paint over a Nazi slogan on a London bus stop? | Kay Holmes





> I’m not Jewish, but my life weaves in and out of Jewishness and Jewish people in a way that’s wholly positive


 otherwise I wouldn't have given a shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> This is fucking abysmal. 'Look at me I am not a nazi and also my therapist is jewish. '
> Why was I forced to spray paint over a Nazi slogan on a London bus stop? | Kay Holmes


just when you thought the abysmal shite in the guardian couldn't get any worse...


----------



## Sue (Jan 10, 2018)

'The owners of Tourmaline Springs say they resent being lumped in with other businesses they feel are jumping on the raw food bandwagon.

I call them entrepreneurial opportuni-whores,” said Pruzansk. “People who see a trend and just want to make money. We’re basically the founders of this entire thing. Having other companies copying our efforts and doing it in a way that is potentially dangerous – we’re a little taken aback.”'



Caught in a deluge: 'raw water' pioneers blame 'opportuni-whores' for brouhaha


----------



## RainbowTown (Jan 10, 2018)

It's actually quite embarrassing just how bad _The Guardian _has become and how increasingly censorious they are too. More and more, they don't allow any reader comments at all on those articles they think will draw a critical response. And as for the overall standard of journalism......peak virtue-signalling doesn't even cover it. No wonder it's dying a death and begging for money to survive.


----------



## oryx (Jan 10, 2018)

RainbowTown said:


> It's actually quite embarrassing just how bad _The Guardian _has become and how increasingly censorious they are too. More and more, they don't allow any reader comments at all on those articles they think will draw a critical response. And as for the overall standard of journalism......peak virtue-signalling doesn't even cover it. No wonder it's dying a death and begging for money to survive.



Yes. As an aside from the rest of the paper, which has really 'gone down the pan' but still has the odd good bit, I was reading the Saturday magazine today.

 just awful, stale, pretentious, unimaginative. Last week's had their standard stable of journalists going over the year, in satire (I use the term loosely). This week it was more or less the same journos doing their NY resolutions 

The columns and the fashion have been awful for some time but there used to be the odd interesting article.


----------



## killer b (Jan 10, 2018)

I've no problem at all with having no reader comments tbf. They should do that on all their stories.


----------



## killer b (Jan 10, 2018)

I mean, have you read them when they do allow them??


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2018)

killer b said:


> I mean, have you read them when they do allow them??


Yes 

Never again


----------



## emanymton (Jan 11, 2018)

I feel guilty for gentrifying my neighbourhood. What should I do?


----------



## seventh bullet (Jan 11, 2018)

Kill yourself.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jan 11, 2018)

emanymton said:


> I feel guilty for gentrifying my neighbourhood. What should I do?


From the top "guardian pick" from the comments:
"You make your community nice - build up a city farm, open a cafe, support your kids' school, sort out the youth club, look after your garden. Then the vampires move in. You know who they are. 'Sought after'. 'Improving'. 'Investment'. 'Vibrant'. 'Zone 2'. They're the ones. In cahoots with each other, talking up the 'market. Don't blame the people who do the hard work. Blame the estate agent."


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 11, 2018)

emanymton said:


> I feel guilty for gentrifying my neighbourhood. What should I do?



A bit of background info on the journalist.



> The third of seven children, she grew up in Plaistow in East London, in a chaotic family well known to social services, and as a child was briefly taken into care.
> 
> Her English mum had severe schizophrenia, and while she tried very hard to raise her children in a loving environment, was often unable to cope. Her dad, from a traditional Bangladeshi family, worked long hours as a minicab driver and, later, chauffeur.



How the welfare state helped homeless Poppy to win a place at Cambridge University


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 11, 2018)

And that is where it all went wrong for her  Such a promising start too .


----------



## seventh bullet (Jan 11, 2018)

goldenecitrone said:


> A bit of background info on the journalist.
> 
> 
> 
> How the welfare state helped homeless Poppy to win a place at Cambridge University



So?


----------



## petee (Jan 12, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> the New York Times is the American equivalent of the Guardian



no it isn't.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 12, 2018)

goldenecitrone said:


> A bit of background info on the journalist.
> 
> 
> 
> How the welfare state helped homeless Poppy to win a place at Cambridge University


What's your point? That this somehow makes her and (more importantly) The Guardian immune to criticism? Isnt that the main point of this thread? To point out when the Guardian publishes stuff like that with headlines like that. As is so often the case with things on the thread the headline suggestions a worse article than the actual thing. That tells us something about the Guardian's sensibilities and who it is targeting doesn't it? And someone's position within society is not defined by their history, but by their current activity. Do you think the Guardian would have given her a column if she had been too afraid to go to Cambridge and had opted for some ex-polly instead?

And while we are sort of on the subject, I hate the way social mobility has somehow become a substitute for equality. More social mobility does nothing to improve equality, I'd does nothing to help the millions of people struggling to get buy. All more social mobility is likely to do, is give us more wankers with an 'while I made it good, so anyone can' mentality.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 12, 2018)

petee said:


> no it isn't.




Oh, well in this postmodern world your entitled to believe anything you want etc.

I was supplying power for Peace News fest a couple of years ago and we did a workshop where, using Chomsky`s analysis system, we proved that the Guardian is dumbed down and contains less information on current events than its right-wing counterparts. We theorised that this is a deliberate disarming of the left.


----------



## petee (Jan 12, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> I was supplying power for Peace News fest a couple of years ago and we did a workshop where, using Chomsky`s analysis system, we proved that the Guardian is dumbed down and contains less information on current events than its right-wing counterparts. We theorised that this is a deliberate disarming of the left.



well in this postmodern world your _[sic]_ entitled to believe anything you want etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 12, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> I was supplying power for Peace News fest a couple of years ago


----------



## JimW (Jan 12, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> We theorised that this is a deliberate disarming of the left.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jan 12, 2018)

Ok maybe disarming is the wrong word


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 13, 2018)

Tongue wedged ever further up Merkel's arse.


> But there are mountains to climb before Mrs Merkel can begin her fourth term in the chancellery. The most immediate problem is that Mr Schulz must get his party to support the deal. This will not be straightforward. Both before and after September’s poor SPD election performance, the party mood was against taking part in another grand coalition with Mrs Merkel.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 14, 2018)

I see they're going tabloid as of tomorrow. Beginning of the end?


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 14, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


> I see they're going tabloid as of tomorrow. Beginning of the end?



One day, the few survivors will look back on the moment when humans became unable to hold broadsheet newspapers as a decisive point in our downfall.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 14, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


> I see they're going tabloid as of tomorrow. Beginning of the end?


More likely it will help arrest losses caused by buying into the dead end of the Berliner format


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 14, 2018)

New look for tomorrow teased via Twitter, not even bitching I didn't realise what it was at first and was wondering why a weekly free regional would put Chelsea Manning on their front page.

General criticisms:

The masthead is a disaster zone (wtf is that giant badly-kerned The doing?),
The quintuple hairline divider is weird and out of place
The red and black balls look like someone was trying to play a bingo game at the same time as doing the layout
The furniture at the top is an alphabet soup, though I get what they're trying to do re: teasing content above the fold.
If I was to guess what happened, I'd say people who are used to having a lot of room to play with have been left a bit nonplussed on how to deal with less real estate. It could well be much better on the inside where I assume there'll be less shorehorning going on, and obv there'll be a bit of bedding in time for it. I dunno I guess it could be worse.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 14, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> New look for tomorrow teased via Twitter, not even bitching I didn't realise what it was at first and was wondering why a weekly free regional would put Chelsea Manning on their front page.
> View attachment 125360
> General criticisms:
> 
> ...


I very much doubt that it will be the British answer to Liberation, somehow.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 14, 2018)

Dear god. It looks like the first edition of a student newpaper where the editors didn't get any handover cos last year's team fucked off on their gap year to Peru before training anyone else up.


----------



## magneze (Jan 14, 2018)

Looks shit.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 14, 2018)

I genuinely don't get what happened with that brand redesign, like the whole thing from the Graun is that it's the calm voice of liberal reason, but they spiked the logo up like they're headed to their first punk gig (I wonder if it'll switch online at midnight or summat for consistency?).


----------



## magneze (Jan 14, 2018)

The new logo is utterly terrible.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 15, 2018)

Yeah, that is pretty awful, really quite shit. Wonder how much that rebranding cost them...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 15, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> I genuinely don't get what happened with that brand redesign, like the whole thing from the Graun is that it's the calm voice of liberal reason, but they spiked the logo up like they're headed to their first punk gig (I wonder if it'll switch online at midnight or summat for consistency?).
> 
> View attachment 125362



one or two on tweeter suggesting a compare and contrast with


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 15, 2018)

More than a slight passing resemblance...


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 15, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> General criticisms:
> 
> The masthead is a disaster zone (wtf is that giant badly-kerned The doing?),
> The quintuple hairline divider is weird and out of place
> ...



Spot on with these. The masthead's the worst offender - they can tweak the other stuff, but they're presumably stuck with the name as it is for a good long while now they've rebranded. It's very hard to read - I keep just seeing *ard*

Also, the riot of colour at the top is extremely offputting. It's like a typography sale at an everything's-a-pound shop.


----------



## magneze (Jan 15, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> More than a slight passing resemblance...


Except one's shit.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 15, 2018)

magneze said:


> Except one's shit.



And the other one's even worse.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> I genuinely don't get what happened with that brand redesign, like the whole thing from the Graun is that it's the calm voice of liberal reason, but they spiked the logo up like they're headed to their first punk gig (I wonder if it'll switch online at midnight or summat for consistency?).
> 
> View attachment 125362


that guardian thing looks like the title of some second-rate horror novel


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2018)




----------



## billy_bob (Jan 15, 2018)

Classic case of Betteridge's law in that subheading, Pickman's model .


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 15, 2018)

They've changed the online paper to match the printed version. It looks terrible there too. As does all the orange and red lettering. Bizarre.


----------



## bogbrush (Jan 15, 2018)

Looks like a corporate magazine or something you find in the back of an airplane seat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2018)

bogbrush said:


> or something you find in the back of an airplane seat.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jan 15, 2018)

so Paul Mason's weekly column has been removed - not sure whether that constitutes an upward or downward movement pan-wise


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jan 15, 2018)

Brainaddict said:


> They've changed the online paper to match the printed version. It looks terrible there too. As does all the orange and red lettering. Bizarre.


Oh, they've colour coded all the headlines to match the nav bar header colours. The problem is that most of it is bright red and then you get the odd bit of lightish blue, super bright orange and beige mixed in - which looks a bit shit and means my eyes keep on needing to refocus as I scroll down the page. Very odd choice.


----------



## little_legs (Jan 15, 2018)

Honestly, this morning I thought I clicked on the Glamour magazine's website.


----------



## oryx (Jan 15, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> one or two on tweeter suggesting a compare and contrast with



My OH bought a paper copy today and the first thing I thought was how much the branding and layout were like The Standard.

OH is annoyed at the change because the tabloid size is too small for using to change the cat litter, whereas the Berliner size was useful!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 18, 2018)

Instagrammers are sucking the life and soul out of travel | Rhiannon Lucy Cosslett


----------



## Sue (Jan 18, 2018)

Not sure if this qualifies for 'going down the pan'. More BAU really.

Carillion may have gone bust, but outsourcing is a powerful public good | John McTernan


----------



## Mr Smin (Jan 18, 2018)

This nonsensical bollocks is why I don't subscribe. If anyone knows what the point of this article is, please explain it to me
Europe's microwave ovens emit nearly as much CO2 as 7m cars


----------



## oryx (Jan 18, 2018)

Sue said:


> Not sure if this qualifies for 'going down the pan'. More BAU really.
> 
> Carillion may have gone bust, but outsourcing is a powerful public good | John McTernan



There's so much wrong in that article I don't know where to begin. The comments have done a pretty good job.

Suffice to say it reminded me of why I'm a Corbynite.


----------



## Sue (Jan 18, 2018)

oryx said:


> There's so much wrong in that article I don't know where to begin. The comments have done a pretty good job.
> 
> Suffice to say it reminded me of why I'm a Corbynite.


It's beyond appalling. 

'The problem is that we are all a little squeamish. Companies going out of business is part-and-parcel of how capitalism works – it is essential that there is both creativity and destruction. For individual workers whose pay and pensions depend on the continued success of the company, that is disruptive.'

Ffs.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 19, 2018)

Sue said:


> It's beyond appalling.
> 
> 'The problem is that we are all a little squeamish. Companies going out of business is part-and-parcel of how capitalism works – it is essential that there is both creativity and destruction. For individual workers whose pay and pensions depend on the continued success of the company, that is disruptive.'
> 
> Ffs.


Come on those disruptors like Uber!


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 20, 2018)

The new books section is a bit on the laughable side, and is a laughable size, I'd say.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 20, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


> The new books section is a bit on the laughable side, and is a laughable size, I'd say.


does this mean you've actually bought a paper copy?


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 20, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> does this mean you've actually bought a paper copy?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 20, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


>


but you can watch the world burn online for free. this is really why the guardian is going down the pan!


----------



## binka (Jan 21, 2018)

The ugly truth about family WhatsApp groups | Nikesh Shukla

Observer Magazine not Guardian but still counts. I googled him and apparently he is a writer by profession and this isn't just something the observer stole off of the what has mildly vexed you today thread.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 21, 2018)

oryx said:


> My OH bought a paper copy today and the first thing I thought was how much the branding and layout were like The Standard.
> 
> OH is annoyed at the change because the tabloid size is too small for using to change the cat litter, whereas the Berliner size was useful!


Yeh we too are bereft of litter liner


----------



## Mattym (Jan 21, 2018)

In the paper version they've got rid of Harangue the DJ from the Guide.
Bye, bye Guardian!


----------



## stavros (Jan 22, 2018)

They've also got rid of the ITV4 listings, but not ITV2 bizarrely.


----------



## BristolEcho (Jan 23, 2018)

Jesus fucking Christ. 

Why was I humiliated by Waitrose self-scan check?

Why was I humiliated by Waitrose self-scan check?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 23, 2018)

BristolTechno said:


> Jesus fucking Christ.
> 
> Why was I humiliated by Waitrose self-scan check?
> 
> Why was I humiliated by Waitrose self-scan check?



I was coming here to post that. It's an absolute classic of the 'whining pompous bourgeois tosspot with zero self-awareness' genre.

Sadly, the comments thread is closed


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 23, 2018)

BristolTechno said:


> Jesus fucking Christ.
> 
> Why was I humiliated by Waitrose self-scan check?





SpookyFrank said:


> I was coming here to post that.



Same


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2018)

BristolTechno said:


> Jesus fucking Christ.
> 
> Why was I humiliated by Waitrose self-scan check?
> 
> Why was I humiliated by Waitrose self-scan check?


I read that today and thought that the response was suitably pithy. I remembered going to the supermarket 20 years ago with my mum and seeing her having to get stuff rescanned. It was irritating but not humiliating.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 27, 2018)

Tim Dowling: will my wife be proved wrong… for the first time?

suffering fuck this guy is like some parody of a the smuggest middle class wanker ever - and his sycophants in the comment section are even worse. Critical comments are rigorously deleted within seconds. 
HE. GETS. PAID. FOR. THIS. SHIT!


----------



## emanymton (Jan 27, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Tim Dowling: will my wife be proved wrong… for the first time?
> 
> suffering fuck this guy is like some parody of a the smuggest middle class wanker ever - and his sycophants in the comment section are even worse. Critical comments are rigorously deleted within seconds.
> HE. GETS. PAID. FOR. THIS. SHIT!


Just what is the point of that shit.


----------



## agricola (Jan 27, 2018)

Anything Tim Dowling can do, Nick Cohen does better:



> I can feel the force of the objections. When we imagine a healthier future we are also imagining a more authoritarian state. Individual choice will be constrained and wisdom of the crowd rejected. Women will wonder who will chop the vegetables and cook the dinners when ultra-processed food is taxed to the point of extinction.
> 
> Beyond gender lies an undoubted class element in public health campaigns. Sugar and fat addiction, like all addictions, provide a temporary respite for the poor, the depressed and the disappointed. Perhaps we should offer them better lives rather than snatch away the few comforts they enjoy. This sounds a stirring counter-argument. But as any reader who has been an addict will know, addiction prevents you finding a better life. For when you suffer the multiple morbidities of diabetes, arthritis, cancer and strokes, your sicknesses are your life. You do not have the freedom to choose to change it.
> 
> God knows, there are good reasons to mistrust experts re-engineering societies from above. But as with tobacco, freedom of choice in the food and car markets has left us with no choice but to trust them.


----------



## stavros (Jan 28, 2018)

A fawning piece on the head of Apple, where he passes the buck to governments on regulation of his industry; "It's the states' fault that my company twists itself through every loophole going to fuck over taxpayers" (I paraphrase only slightly).


----------



## Raheem (Jan 28, 2018)

stavros said:


> A fawning piece on the head of Apple, where he passes the buck to governments on regulation of his industry; "It's the states' fault that my company twists itself through every loophole going to fuck over taxpayers" (I paraphrase only slightly).



Not sticking up for him, but he's not wrong. It's silly to expect a dog to put itself on a leash.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 28, 2018)

Thought the class would enjoy this:


----------



## Santino (Jan 28, 2018)

Raheem said:


> Not sticking up for him, but he's not wrong. It's silly to expect a dog to put itself on a leash.


Why don't you commit crimes?


----------



## Raheem (Jan 28, 2018)

Santino said:


> Why don't you commit crimes?



You mean why do I. Because I can get away with it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 29, 2018)

Sue said:


> Not sure if this qualifies for 'going down the pan'. More BAU really.
> 
> Carillion may have gone bust, but outsourcing is a powerful public good | John McTernan



It's John McTernan, or "Madman McTernan" as he's known, on account of being rabidly pro-right, and unable to think logically.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 29, 2018)

Worth a read for the sheer gall of paying someone to write this..

Can you really save for a deposit by ditching coffee and avocado toast? I tried to find out

"Beyond the last £8,000-odd to pay off on my student loan, I am debt-free. I earn considerably more than the national average salary of about £27,000 (and about in line with the average for London)" which is £35,000 to £40,000 apparently...


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 29, 2018)

flypanam said:


> Worth it a read for the sheer gall of paying someone to write this..
> 
> Can you really save for a deposit by ditching coffee and avocado toast? I tried to find out
> 
> "Beyond the last £8,000-odd to pay off on my student loan, I am debt-free. I earn considerably more than the national average salary of about £27,000 (and about in line with the average for London)" which is £35,000 to £40,000 apparently...



I almost want the Guardian to go out of business and everyone who writes for it to die, just so I'm not even tempted to click on the link and read that.


----------



## stavros (Jan 29, 2018)

Raheem said:


> Not sticking up for him, but he's not wrong. It's silly to expect a dog to put itself on a leash.



My post wasn't to criticise Cook and Apple, as their ethics speak for themselves and would better suit an Apple thread. My aim was to point out the lack of the Guardian holding him properly to account.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 30, 2018)

flypanam said:


> Worth a read for the sheer gall of paying someone to write this..
> 
> Can you really save for a deposit by ditching coffee and avocado toast? I tried to find out
> 
> "Beyond the last £8,000-odd to pay off on my student loan, I am debt-free. I earn considerably more than the national average salary of about £27,000 (and about in line with the average for London)" which is £35,000 to £40,000 apparently...



The entire thing is vomit-enducing.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 30, 2018)

Jesus. So instead of demonstrating that the don't buy coffee thing is bollocks, they choose someone who is so profligate that for her it isn't. Although even for her by Martin Lewis's estimation she could have saved up £35k in four years (although that sounds like it would genuinely be a tight four years) and then she still wouldn't be able to buy a place anyway because that's not enough of a deposit for one.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 30, 2018)

scifisam said:


> Jesus. So instead of demonstrating that the don't buy coffee thing is bollocks, they choose someone who is so profligate that for her it isn't. Although even for her by Martin Lewis's estimation she could have saved up £35k in four years (although that sounds like it would genuinely be a tight four years) and then she still wouldn't be able to buy a place anyway because that's not enough of a deposit for one.


That article is really annoying me now. They could have worked off the fact that Lewis immediately said “no chance” even though she earns a surprising amount of money, but they carried it on to be a me me me guilty-but-also-not piece. Brought lunch to work vg. Lost cash while drunk vb.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 31, 2018)

Title

Corbyn told: don't hide behind leftwing myths on single market

Actual content of report:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...xit_paper_finalPRINT_noembargo.pdf?1517301904

'left-wing myths'


> Whether we are in or out of the Single Market, there is no
> escaping some form of state aid rules. Anti-subsidy rules
> will apply even if we traded solely on WTO rules, and they
> will be a feature of any but the most basic trade
> ...



vs cold hard reality here...



> Whether we are in or out of the Single Market, there is no
> escaping some form of state aid rules. Anti-subsidy rules
> will apply even if we traded solely on WTO rules, and they
> will be a feature of any but the most basic trade
> ...



Rather than left-wing myths, even the report supposedly exposing them demonstrates that they are just reality.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 31, 2018)

What is the Gaurdain going to do when it runs out of pictures of young, shiny middle class people in EU flag face paint/waving EU flags/Eu Flag underpants etc There's one on the front page of their site _every fucking day_.


----------



## agricola (Feb 2, 2018)

On the discovery of a novelized account of the Spanish conquest of the Americas:



> Martín de León acknowledges the horrific realities of the mines and bemoans the corruption and chaos of Potosí, but he is very much a man of his time. Unlike his celebrated Dominican forerunner, Bartolomé de las Casas, he was no pioneering advocate of indigenous rights.
> 
> “He recognises that the indigenous people are being mistreated and exploited and that life is hard for them,” Palacios said. “But what Martín de León is criticising isn’t the fact that the indigenous people are being exploited so white people don’t have to do the work, which is the modern take. He’s criticising the fact that the indigenous population is being exploited to the point of disappearance.”
> 
> ...


----------



## stavros (Feb 5, 2018)

They appear to have got rid of The Long Read from the Saturday edition. I didn't always read it, but it was often fairly interesting.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 5, 2018)

stavros said:


> They appear to have got rid of The Long Read from the Saturday edition. I didn't always read it, but it was often fairly interesting.


In pursuit of the tortoise smugglers


----------



## Santino (Feb 5, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> In pursuit of the tortoise smugglers


That article is slow-going.


----------



## gosub (Feb 5, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> Thought the class would enjoy this:


Got a lot of time for Tim.... Good live and an absolute gent when my best mate died


----------



## greenfield (Feb 7, 2018)

I hate Bidisha and her smug, supercilious professional (in every sense) victimhood at the best of times. Hyperbole doesn't begin to describe her latest offering...
​


----------



## Libertad (Feb 7, 2018)

Ian Bone gets an airing courtesy of Suzanne Moore:

Bone idol: the Shard provocateur is my kind of anarchist | Suzanne Moore


----------



## doodlelogic (Feb 7, 2018)

The headline might be thought to be click-bait but the article goes on in the same vein:

Jacob Rees-Mogg has become the perfect politician for our confused times | Nesrine Malik


----------



## Sue (Feb 10, 2018)

First world problems... 

My teenage daughter is embarrassed by the car we’re giving her for her birthday


----------



## sealion (Feb 10, 2018)

Sue said:


> First world problems...
> 
> My teenage daughter is embarrassed by the car we’re giving her for her birthday


Was just about to post this!


----------



## Nylock (Feb 10, 2018)

"Dear guardian, my kid is a spoilt twat and i'm the spineless cunt who made them that way".


----------



## Sue (Feb 10, 2018)

Nylock said:


> "Dear guardian, my kid is a spoilt twat and i'm the spineless cunt who made them that way".



Quite. I grew up in a town in a rural area with dubious public transport and I didn't know anyone at that age who had a car, never mind anyone who'd been given one, never mind then moaning about it not being cool enough...


----------



## PursuedByBears (Feb 10, 2018)

Reminded me of the inbetweeners


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 10, 2018)

Sue said:


> First world problems...
> 
> My teenage daughter is embarrassed by the car we’re giving her for her birthday


She'll wrap it round a tree before she's 19


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 11, 2018)

Nick Cohen's whole sunday Obo piece only contains one corbyn dig


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 14, 2018)

> Reconciliation is the bedrock on which the EU exists. That’s why, for instance, the Greek attacks on Germany during the eurozone crisis (Angela Merkel was portrayed with a Nazi helmet by protesters in Athens) were so worrying.


----------



## stavros (Feb 14, 2018)

I believe Simon Jenkins is one of the Graun's token Tories, or at least a traditionalist free marketeer. However, this is sure an indulgence too far.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2018)




----------



## rekil (Feb 15, 2018)

Does the Illuminati control the world? Maybe it’s not such a mad idea | Julian Baggini

Going after a slice of that valuable clickhappy conspiraloon market segment.


----------



## Santino (Feb 15, 2018)

What solid gold cuntery.

eta: In response to butchers


----------



## Ralph Llama (Feb 16, 2018)

Libertad said:


> Ian Bone gets an airing courtesy of Suzanne Moore:
> 
> Bone idol: the Shard provocateur is my kind of anarchist | Suzanne Moore



Proof that he`s past it TBH.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 16, 2018)

Santino said:


> What solid gold cuntery.
> 
> eta: In response to butchers



That is categorically worse than the usual self-parodying rubbish we usually mock them for on this thread, isn't it? And how the fuck have they managed to extort $57k out of people in response to it?


----------



## hot air baboon (Feb 16, 2018)

..hand over the dosh or the kid gets it...


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 16, 2018)

Looking forward to their next fundraiser. 'Football club nonces require creative solutions - give us some money and we'll keep banging on about Barry Bennell to create meaningful change.'


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 16, 2018)

weaponised begging bowl


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 16, 2018)

For?





And no - that form of wording does not appear in the indictment.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 17, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> And no - that form of wording does not appear in the indictment.



I know we're supposed to find anything the Guardian does sickening, but are you really pulling them up for not restricting their headline to the precise wording of the indictment?


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 23, 2018)

Theresa May at risk of Commons defeat as Labour shifts on Brexit

Cut the filler and get to the real issues: the Cabinet were at Chequers for an awfully long time - didn't they get really hungry? Did they have to bring their own sandwiches? Did they order take-away pizzas? *We want answers!*




			
				Guardian said:
			
		

> ... talks at the 16th-century mansion in Buckinghamshire, broken up by a dinner of sweetcorn soup and beef rib with parsnip mash ...



Thank god for that.


----------



## stavros (Feb 23, 2018)

I’ve never known my times tables. Frankly, who needs them?  | Peter Bradshaw


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2018)

stavros said:


> I’ve never known my times tables. Frankly, who needs them?  | Peter Bradshaw


as usual the reason why people learn up to the twelve times table - auld money - ignored.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 25, 2018)

The only good thing you can say about this cavalcade of smug bullshit is that the first picture seems to be satirising the rest of the article: pretentious waffle.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 25, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> The only good thing you can say about this cavalcade of smug bullshit is that the first picture seems to be satirising the rest of the article: pretentious waffle.


Some good stuff in there, but Assassination Custard wtf? Barleyesque innit


----------



## planetgeli (Feb 25, 2018)

Moules Britannia: why are celebs flocking to Café Rouge in Highgate?

Because it’s where they all live. Now fuck off.

Will Ed Sheeran inspire more men to wear engagement rings?

Sub-headline uses the ‘word’ “man-gagement”.

Enough evidence there to blow up Guardian Towers.


----------



## Rob Ray (Feb 26, 2018)

"We've already raised that $100k we opportunistically grubbed heroically called for to help us 'break the cycle of gun violence' via a y'know, totes different set of jolly holidays important articles calling for more gun control laws from our unique faboo liberal writers which you deffo won't have seen before. But we're going to leave the fund open for reasons."


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Feb 27, 2018)

snow-day-style-fashionable-ways-to-stay-warm-in-a-cold-snap

Because we're all stupid and don't know to wear a coat and gloves when it gets cold.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Feb 28, 2018)

Aidan Moffat put it better than me, music is all about being picked up by major labels seemingly.  Pure raging re his comments on Eugene from the Vaselines.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 28, 2018)

They're raging btl about the dismissal of the mighty Melvins - rightly.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 28, 2018)

They have a piece about class not being dead written by an Oxbridger - a day after a piece saying that the establishment no longer existed, or was dying.


----------



## rekil (Feb 28, 2018)

They (The Melvins) should call their next album Middling.


----------



## rekil (Feb 28, 2018)

Jonathan Franklin who spent years sighing and rolling his eyes at Chilean student protesters now reckons they're great. #gloryhunterbollix

Chile student protest leaders send support to Florida gun campaigners


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 28, 2018)

They're just all over the place.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 28, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> They have a piece about class not being dead written by an Oxbridger - a day after a piece saying that the establishment no longer existed, or was dying.



Comment is free but facts are sacred - that's why The Guardian doesn't need to wait for the facts to change before it changes its mind.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2018)

On the rolling news thing they have a short piece about rough sleepers and the dangers they are currently facing. Directly underneath it is another piece entitled _Let them eat potato, parsnip and porcini gratin ... _folllowed by some Nigella Lawson bollocks.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 1, 2018)

stavros said:


> I’ve never known my times tables. Frankly, who needs them?  | Peter Bradshaw



People with actual jobs. Lots of people with actual jobs need maths.


----------



## stavros (Mar 1, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> People with actual jobs. Lots of people with actual jobs need maths.



I agree, and not exclusive to the employed either. Anyone who's ever had a credit card or a mortgage ought to be able to cope with fractions in the percentage form. Money exchange of just about any sort requires arithmetical skills, or at least rewards those who can audit any automation.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 1, 2018)

I agree with that article tbh. Times tables are symbolic for Tory “back to basics” bollocks; while obviously it’s useful to be able to multiply stuff out in your head casually, you can learn it quickly in jobs where it matters, and there shouldn’t be national tests on it. Also it has no relevance to actual maths at all. The article makes it clear that it’s not about numeracy but about surface rote learning.

Full disclosure: I have to count out lots of times tables in my head. I’m generally pretty good at maths though.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 3, 2018)

Polly Toynbee would quite like it if Sinn Fein would stop being so awkward and swear allegiance to the Queen:

Come to parliament, Sinn Féin, as saviours of Ireland – and Britain | Polly Toynbee


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 3, 2018)

Mentioned in the brexit thread yesterday Fozzie, but needs to be captured here too - just


----------



## rekil (Mar 3, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Polly Toynbee would quite like it if Sinn Fein would stop being so awkward and swear allegiance to the Queen:
> 
> Come to parliament, Sinn Féin, as saviours of Ireland – and Britain | Polly Toynbee


They should all stroll up to the gates, then say "No Polly, we don't want to come in. Everybody has 5 minutes to get out." The old ones are the best. Guaranteed about 25 RTs on Adams's twitter.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 3, 2018)

stethoscope said:


> Mentioned in the brexit thread yesterday Fozzie, but needs to be captured here too - just



Oops! I am behind on that one.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 3, 2018)

In Meghan Markle, will Britain get a sleeping beauty or our first woke princess?  | Gaby Hinsliff

This journo does seem to be worse than the norm, amazingly.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 3, 2018)

She's the oxbridge daughter of possibly the worst ever actor to have a long running character in corrie - Dangerous Don Brennan.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Mar 3, 2018)

Shoehorning 'woke' into every other article is so jokes, like anybody speaks like that irl.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 3, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> She's the oxbridge daughter of possibly the worst ever actor to have a long running character in corrie - Dangerous Don Brennan.



lolz, top factoid

he was rubbish tbf ( though not easy playing 2nd fiddle to one of the minor greats of Corrie )


----------



## Santino (Mar 3, 2018)

I never liked Bruce Jones.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 3, 2018)

Santino said:


> I never liked Bruce Jones.


He's good in Ken Loach's Raining Stones
I wiki'd him and he seems to have ruined his life with booze 
.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 4, 2018)

How bright ideas turned a ramshackle London flat into a cosy family home

Bright ideas and an income that lets you commute between LA and London, and hire a builder who can redo the entire thing, and pay the unspecified price for the flat in the first place of course. And some help from your dad.

Guardian property porn pieces are a bit “fish in a tiny overpriced barrel” mind.


----------



## sealion (Mar 4, 2018)

“It’s a very special shop that sells Victorian homeware,”


----------



## scifisam (Mar 4, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> How bright ideas turned a ramshackle London flat into a cosy family home
> 
> Bright ideas and an income that lets you commute between LA and London, and hire a builder who can redo the entire thing, and pay the unspecified price for the flat in the first place of course. And some help from your dad.
> 
> Guardian property porn pieces are a bit “fish in a tiny overpriced barrel” mind.



"During their search, the advice of a friend stuck with them: buy the worst house on the best street." 

Was their friend under a curse to only repeat cliches coined in 1992?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 4, 2018)

Those Donna Wilson cushions seem to be in the range of £65-70 each. 

These property pieces are just designed to make others feel inadequate because they can't afford a similar property or the furnishings to go with it.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 5, 2018)

that is such a nothing article. I have no beef with the individuals, but why does this rate for inclusion ? Any of us could do the same with their gaffs and a bit of creative filler writing


----------



## scifisam (Mar 5, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> that is such a nothing article. I have no beef with the individuals, but why does this rate for inclusion ? Any of us could do the same with their gaffs and a bit of creative filler writing



Yep. And it looks like it's been edited down from a blog post on a designer's blog a few years ago. It's possible the people in the article didn't even give permission for the Guardian to use it - it's the writer and photographer of the blog post who will own copyright.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2018)

It's like when you see those property programmes where people are looking to buy somewhere in the country (obviously with paddocks and stables) but within commuting distance of London where they need to buy a flat as well. But they have a really tight budget of, oh I don't know, £800k for both. 

In other words, pretty much unattainable for the majority of the population.


----------



## scifisam (Mar 5, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> It's like when you see those property programmes where people are looking to buy somewhere in the country (obviously with paddocks and stables) but within commuting distance of London where they need to buy a flat as well. But they have a really tight budget of, oh I don't know, £800k for both.
> 
> In other words, pretty much unattainable for the majority of the population.



Sort of - TBF, apart from the living between LA and London thing it's not that excessive. I mean at least it's a flat and she bought those expensive cushions gradually over the years. Compared to a lot of TV shows where they have ordinary people living in ridiculously huge houses this is more on the side of reality. 

Bet they'd never do an article about how someone's styled their council flat though. I mean as a normal style article like this; I did see an article about "amazing social housing" once, but the idea behind it was very much "wow, look, proles can be designers in their own homes too! I thought it was all Love, Laugh, Live posters and laminate!"


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 6, 2018)

There's something different about Dan Snow but I can't quite put my finger on it... has he changed his hair?


----------



## Voley (Mar 6, 2018)




----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 6, 2018)

I saw that and laughed, cos the answer must be obvious: no, you're just shit in bed.


----------



## Voley (Mar 6, 2018)

Best Twitter comment:


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 7, 2018)

In praise of the liberal elite facing down populism



> Those sneered at as elites, secularists, liberals, Soros globalists: they are one and the same. They are those who practise their individual rights in a democracy in the face of being usurped by the fascism of common will. They should be encouraged and applauded whether one agrees with them or not. And those doing the name-calling should be reminded that they haven’t come up with anything new or original. They are merely participating in a shameful, age-old tradition of taking the common man’s name in vain.



_Nesrine Malik is a Guardian columnist. She is a former private equity investor_


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 7, 2018)

Gulag has reserved her a place at the Norilsk Combine.  Effort expected in line with Stakhanovism and to meet the standards of our Heroes of Labour but starting on half-rations. Extra quota fulfillment on Sundays.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 8, 2018)

Carrying an ad today from the House of Saud about how they're empowering women.

Classy.


----------



## rekil (Mar 8, 2018)

Extreme frugality allowed me to retire at 32 – and regain control of my life



> Elizabeth Willard Thames abandoned a successful career in the city and embraced frugality to create a more meaningful life. It enabled her to retire at 32 with her family to a homestead in the Vermont woods



They sound like aliens adapting to their human form.



> Painting their own kitchen cabinets brought the Frugalwoods closer in their marriage. ‘Gratitude and respect began to infuse our interactions.’


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 8, 2018)

copliker said:


> Extreme frugality allowed me to retire at 32 – and regain control of my life
> 
> 
> 
> They sound like aliens adapting to their human form.



These people will almost certainly be murdered in some heavily ironic way, in a plot twist that everyone saw coming miles off.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 8, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> These people will almost certainly be murdered in some heavily ironic way, in a plot twist that everyone saw coming miles off.


We can only hope.


----------



## binka (Mar 9, 2018)

Trump meeting Kim Jong-un is a half-baked idea – and a dangerous one | Richard Wolffe

It's all shit but the bit about the gridiron dinner speech is just weird


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 9, 2018)

I'm not reading it, I just wanted to note that wolffe is milking his moment for all its worth


----------



## agricola (Mar 9, 2018)

8th March:

*Barbara Judge profile: 'the best-connected woman in Britain' *

9th March:

*Institute of Directors suspends Barbara Judge amid claims of racism *


----------



## andysays (Mar 9, 2018)

What a difference a day makes...


----------



## agricola (Mar 9, 2018)

andysays said:


> What a difference a day makes...



it was actually six hours, they had a story up last night reporting it


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 9, 2018)

She appears to have escaped from Madame Tussaud's.  The photo the beeb are using is even weirder.

IoD suspends chair after racism row


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2018)

Because you can't get on it.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 10, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> She appears to have escaped from Madame Tussaud's.  The photo the beeb are using is even weirder.
> 
> IoD suspends chair after racism row



Yikes. She looks like one of the children of the damned all grown up.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 12, 2018)

Cohen  surpasses himself. Len Mc Cluskey is to blame for the modern day weakness of the TU movement (he  completely ignores decades old structural shifts in the nature of employment and harsh anti-union laws). Even better - Unite's candiate for general secretary is only there cos she is Mc Cluskeys "ex-mistress".

Don’t look to Len McCluskey and his sorry ilk to defend workers’ interests | Nick Cohen

Hes deranged. Comments BTL are universally ripping him to shit.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 12, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> She appears to have escaped from Madame Tussaud's.  The photo the beeb are using is even weirder.
> 
> IoD suspends chair after racism row


----------



## 8115 (Mar 12, 2018)

‘I live a life of austerity so I can travel all the time’


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 12, 2018)

8115 said:


> ‘I live a life of austerity so I can travel all the time’






			
				Guardian said:
			
		

> I've always been a saver. As a student I lived frugally and was constantly setting up little businesses such as a moving-in service for freshers so that I could graduate in profit. My favourite gourmet experience has always been Heinz spaghetti hoops.
> 
> Now, despite earning a decent salary, I lead a life of austerity as all my spare time and money are consumed by my travel blog Spaghetti Traveller, named for that spaghetti hoops passion.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 13, 2018)

The rest of it isn't any better, to be honest.


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 13, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> The rest of it isn't any better, to be honest.


Didn't make it that far


----------



## Indeliblelink (Mar 13, 2018)

Menswear picks: get off to a flying start with your holiday wardrobe – in pictures
no wonder he looks so miserable


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 13, 2018)

stethoscope said:


> Didn't make it that far


The sacrifices I make for this thread so you don't have to


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 13, 2018)

Indeliblelink said:


> Menswear picks: get off to a flying start with your holiday wardrobe – in pictures
> no wonder he looks so miserable


Dear god, money cannot buy taste or style.


----------



## oryx (Mar 13, 2018)

Indeliblelink said:


> Menswear picks: get off to a flying start with your holiday wardrobe – in pictures
> no wonder he looks so miserable



I saw that and considered putting it in the 'Male Model Strong Looks' thread!


----------



## oryx (Mar 13, 2018)

> _The colours have been translated to blazers, dresses, trousers and more. Try a jacket the colour of strawberry ice-cream at Céline, pistachio co-ords at Acne, vanilla wafers on a suit at Chanel, blueberry swirls in a skirt suit at Versace or violet cream in layers of organza at Preen. It’s lip-smackingly good, and calorie-free_.



From the same Guardian fashion insert. I think The Guardian may have overestimated the fashion budgets of the vast majority of its readers...


----------



## Sue (Mar 13, 2018)

Indeliblelink said:


> Menswear picks: get off to a flying start with your holiday wardrobe – in pictures
> no wonder he looks so miserable


It costs *a lot* of money to look that shit (to paraphrase Dolly Parton). Is the white socks and sandals look meant to be ironic..?


----------



## D'wards (Mar 14, 2018)

Bitta confessional from The Graun there 

Guardian reports 11.3% gender pay gap

Guardian reports 11.3% gender pay gap


----------



## YouSir (Mar 14, 2018)

Theresa May transforms into cold war colossus by not being Jeremy Corbyn

I could only barely skim it, someone tell me - is it as shit as it sounds?


----------



## Rob Ray (Mar 14, 2018)

Yes. Apparently Corbyn's usual "wait for a full report" approach is basically the same thing as personally noshing off Putin, or something.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Yes. Apparently Corbyn's usual "wait for a full report" approach is basically the same thing as personally noshing off Putin, or something.


It's shit politics - and it'll count against him. Why - image? Dilly dallying. Reality - his fucking mates are at it and he's as stuck in the 70s as they are.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> It's shit politics - and it'll count against him. Why - image? Dilly dallying. Reality - his fucking mates are at it and he's as stuck in the 70s as they are.



It's a way to differentiate, if he follows it up by going after the financial stuff it works too - patient and serious. If he doesn't I agree, waste of time.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> It's shit politics - and it'll count against him. Why - image? Dilly dallying. Reality - his fucking mates are at it and he's as stuck in the 70s as they are.



It's a way to differentiate, if he follows it up by going after the financial stuff it works too - patient and serious. If he doesn't I agree, waste of time.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

YouSir said:


> It's a way to differentiate, if he follows it up by going after the financial stuff it works too - patient and serious. If he doesn't I agree, waste of time.


It's not - it's a vestigial  tail leftism that contains every problem with statist strong man leftism going.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> It's not - it's a vestigial  tail leftism that contains every problem with statist strong man leftism going.



Maybe, I honestly don't know - I think you're a cynical prick, too much so for me, and I'm no optimist. But I admit, I look for the best in Corbyn because as far as my lifetime goes he's the best there's been in the mainstream. So meh, we'll see, or I will.


----------



## rekil (Mar 14, 2018)

He would just ignore any report that came out anyway, just as there hasn't been a peep out of him about the OPCW's reports on chemical weapons use in Syria.


----------



## Rob Ray (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> It's not - it's a vestigial tail leftism that contains every problem with statist strong man leftism going.



You reckon? I didn't think he was a fan of strong man Russians particularly, and was assuming it's a fairly standard Corbynish reluctance to engage in the right's (equally standard) hysteria over scary foreigners Doing Bad Things On Our British Sod. Not terribly good optics for a mass audience with national pride issues admittedly, but nothing to get particularly exercised about either.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> You reckon? I didn't think he was a fan of strong man Russians particularly, and was assuming it's a fairly standard Corbynish reluctance to engage in the right's (equally standard) hysteria over scary foreigners Doing Bad Things On Our British Sod. Not terribly good optics for a mass audience with national pride issues admittedly, but nothing to get particularly exercised about either.


It's the anti-imp context he grew up and fosters - murray - standard right old left. A diff scare that isn't working.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> It's the anti-imp context he grew up and fosters - murray - standard right old left. A diff scare that isn't working.



If it's generational then are we waiting for a generation of online conspiracist 'the West is always the only Devil' types then?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Already here


----------



## YouSir (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Already here



Well, I've always respected your honesty even if there's never any optimism with it.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Well, I've always respected your honesty even if there's never any optimism with it.


Blimey, usually get slated for - optimism. I think we're - hang on - you mean LETTSA don't you? I'm the cheery one.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Blimey, usually get slated for - optimism. I think we're - hang on - you mean LETTSA don't you? I'm the cheery one.



Jesus if you're the cheerful one...


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Jesus if you're the cheerful one...


Gineality


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 15, 2018)

Woman jailed for killing boyfriend in YouTube stunt that went wrong

I'm not a journalist but the missing piece of info from this story adds another level of idiocy. The gun was a Desert Eagle .50.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 15, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Woman jailed for killing boyfriend in YouTube stunt that went wrong
> 
> I'm not a journalist but the missing piece of info from this story adds another level of idiocy. The gun was a Desert Eagle .50.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 15, 2018)

only she didn't

I watched as a mother took her son to be kneecapped in Northern Ireland | Sinéad O’Shea


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 15, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Theresa May transforms into cold war colossus by not being Jeremy Corbyn
> 
> I could only barely skim it, someone tell me - is it as shit as it sounds?



Who let him out to write proper columns? I thought he was just there to shit on other people's books despite being unable to string a sentence together himself?

e2a: Apparently Corbyn's mention of Tories hoovering up fat lines of pure, uncut Russian criminal cash was some kind of irrelevant non-sequitur obscuring the real issue of Russian criminality


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Who let him out to write proper columns? I thought he was just there to shit on other people's books despite being unable to string a sentence together himself?


crace has been doing the funny (yeah) column bits for ages. The rictus death head grin.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 15, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> crace has been doing the funny (yeah) column bits for ages. The rictus death head grin.



He looks, and writes, like a man who has only ever had humour described to him.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 15, 2018)

If you want to eat out, you should fork out

Pay more for food you tight bastards.


----------



## sealion (Mar 15, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> If you want to eat out, you should fork out
> 
> Pay more for food you tight bastards.


I was coming here to post that one. I bet he uses uber though the posh fuck


----------



## 8115 (Mar 15, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> If you want to eat out, you should fork out
> 
> Pay more for food you tight bastards.


I was reading that preparing to be sympathetic but in the opening paragraph he appears to link this to the closing of branches of Strada, Byron and Prezzo, if they've closed because people are tight I say pull the purse strings in some more.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 15, 2018)

8115 said:


> I was reading that preparing to be sympathetic but in the opening paragraph he appears to link this to the closing of branches of Strada, Byron and Prezzo, if they've closed because people are tight I say pull the purse strings in some more.


It amazed me that that was what he thought would get the sympathy of the audience. As if there were millions out there with a deep affection for Jamie’s Italian Kitchen.


----------



## sealion (Mar 15, 2018)

8115 said:


> I was reading that preparing to be sympathetic but in the opening paragraph he appears to link this to the closing of branches of Strada, Byron and Prezzo, if they've closed because people are tight I say pull the purse strings in some more.


Independent places are thriving, at the same time the likes of Jamie olivers dives are closing down. He blames brexit Jamie Oliver to close six restaurants in 'tough market' after Brexit vote. The truth is they are shit and fifteen quid for fish and chips or a bowl of pasta won't wash anymore.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 16, 2018)

A sprinkle in time: the best watches for spring/summer 2018 – in pictures

Am I missing something, is there some kind of joke? Quite apart from the price of the watches (some of which are horrible), who the hell wears a donut on their thumb?


----------



## Sue (Mar 16, 2018)

emanymton said:


> A sprinkle in time: the best watches for spring/summer 2018 – in pictures
> 
> Am I missing something, is there some kind of joke? Quite apart from the price of the watches (some of which are horrible), who the hell wears a donut on their thumb?


Ranging from £1250 to £23000. Says a lot about who they think their readership is.

As well as the doughnut thing which is just weird.


----------



## Sue (Mar 16, 2018)

'Talking to my dad about healthcare the other day, I said, as I always do, that the ultimate health insurance for Britons living in the US is knowing we can come home for NHS treatment. My dad looked alarmed and asked if my daughters have NHS numbers, to which I laughed incredulously and said: “No, but what are they going to do, turn us away?”

This hung in the air for a moment and while my dad carried on looking uneasy, I found myself thinking, imperiously, “We are British citizens!” But, of course, this isn’t quite true; my children are American citizens too, and while I make national insurance contributions, I’m not convinced all our paperwork is in order.'

Ugh.

If the British can’t rely on the NHS, our identity is in crisis | Emma Brockes


----------



## cantsin (Mar 16, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> If you want to eat out, you should fork out
> 
> Pay more for food you tight bastards.



eating out ( aprt from the odd bday etc ) when you have a few kids just feels like another world now ... I miss it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2018)

yeh this really looks like sex workers flocking to a property event in cannes  they're fucking muppets, the guardian
Presidents Club scandal casts shade over 'sleazy' property industry


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 16, 2018)

There's a picture that would be dramatically improved by sudden shark attack.


----------



## Rob Ray (Mar 16, 2018)

Is there a Times version of this thread btw? Couldn't find one on a cursory search but whenever I visit my parents and read their copy it seems to have gotten slightly worse each time. Anyway this is what's prompted me:



I mean I often criticise the Star's dodgy views on lots of stuff, but this is just nonsense, it's been front page twice this week, news stories, editorials etc. Plus that caption ... _Just imagine_, 3,000 job losses getting bumped over Theresa May ineffectually waving her fist at Russia. Outrageous.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 16, 2018)

Say what you like about The Guardian- the fashion advice has always been spot on. I'd happily spend an entire months wages on this Mr Byrite shirt circa 1989


----------



## D'wards (Mar 16, 2018)

And £255 for a pair of old P.E. shorts. They really are a bunch of cunts over in clerkenwell . Imagine wearing that get up in any working class pub, who they claim to champion


----------



## 8115 (Mar 17, 2018)

Sue said:


> 'Talking to my dad about healthcare the other day, I said, as I always do, that the ultimate health insurance for Britons living in the US is knowing we can come home for NHS treatment. My dad looked alarmed and asked if my daughters have NHS numbers, to which I laughed incredulously and said: “No, but what are they going to do, turn us away?”
> 
> This hung in the air for a moment and while my dad carried on looking uneasy, I found myself thinking, imperiously, “We are British citizens!” But, of course, this isn’t quite true; my children are American citizens too, and while I make national insurance contributions, I’m not convinced all our paperwork is in order.'
> 
> ...


I think you're not entitled to NHS treatment of you haven't lived in the UK for a certain period of time, 3 months or a year or something?! Someone should tell her. We're already fucked.


----------



## scifisam (Mar 17, 2018)

D'wards said:


> And £255 for a pair of old P.E. shorts. They really are a bunch of cunts over in clerkenwell . Imagine wearing that get up in any working class pub, who they claim to champion



King's Cross rather than Clerkenwell, but yeah, they are.

When I posted that article a friend of mine commented that it looked like Dylan Roof had started a modelling career  Then another friend took offence at that on the model's behalf. FFS.


----------



## killer b (Mar 17, 2018)

Sue said:


> Ranging from £1250 to £23000. Says a lot about who they think their readership is.
> 
> As well as the doughnut thing which is just weird.


They know who their readership are: 26% of them are ABs who can afford expensive watches, and the other 74% are people who would like to be able to afford expensive watches.


----------



## Sue (Mar 17, 2018)

8115 said:


> I think you're not entitled to NHS treatment of you haven't lived in the UK for a certain period of time, 3 months or a year or something?! Someone should tell her. We're already fucked.


She's been away for 10 years apparently so definitely isn't entitled to it. 

It's the general air of entitlement and that she believes she (and her children) should be able to get treatment without paying into the system (paying NI is for pensions not the NHS as far as I'm aware) that's so fucking annoying. 

Guess she and the Guardian don't see it as health tourism when it's someone like her doing it.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 17, 2018)

scifisam said:


> King's Cross rather than Clerkenwell, but yeah, they are.
> 
> When I posted that article a friend of mine commented that it looked like Dylan Roof had started a modelling career  Then another friend took offence at that on the model's behalf. FFS.


I have a pal who looks very much like Anders Breivik and another who looks like Raoul Moat. 
Of course this was pointed out extensively at the time, much to the chagrin of both


----------



## scifisam (Mar 17, 2018)

D'wards said:


> I have a pal who looks very much like Anders Breivik and another who looks like Raoul Moat.
> Of course this was pointed out extensively at the time, much to the chagrin of both



I used to have a passport photo that made me look exactly like Maxine Carr.  And when people saw it they'd look at me and go, hmm...


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 18, 2018)

My dad looks like Harold Shipman


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 18, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> My dad looks like Harold Shipman


Song title thread >>>>>


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 19, 2018)

My dad used to look like Peter Sutcliffe and he was a lorry driver


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 19, 2018)

Can't even take a quick look at the front page on my phone now without it auto playing that video/advert (which also switches full screen)


----------



## mauvais (Mar 19, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Say what you like about The Guardian- the fashion advice has always been spot on. I'd happily spend an entire months wages on this Mr Byrite shirt circa 1989
> View attachment 130177


----------



## D'wards (Mar 19, 2018)

I looked up the circulation figures of the newspapers.  The Guardian has a shockingly low circulation, a fraction of the Sun and Mail and even The Times.

No wonder they have their hand out constantly .


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2018)

It's the sixth most read news website in the world. If they can make that pay (and it looks like they are on the verge of doing so, precisely through _having their hand out_), the paper sales in the UK are pretty irrelevant.


----------



## bemused (Mar 19, 2018)

stethoscope said:


> Can't even take a quick look at the front page on my phone now without it auto playing that video/advert (which also switches full screen)



I think there should be special camps for people who put video adverts on websites. They should be forced to watch Owen Jones newsnight interviews 24/7.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 19, 2018)

killer b said:


> It's the sixth most read news website in the world. If they can make that pay (and it looks like they are on the verge of doing so, precisely through _having their hand out_), the paper sales in the UK are pretty irrelevant.


Why don't they just make it subscription and stop going on about it?


----------



## bemused (Mar 19, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Why don't they just make it subscription and stop going on about it?



I don't know, I've given them a donation in the past - but you get fuck all for it so I didn't renew.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Why don't they just make it subscription and stop going on about it?


because they want to stay being one of the most read news websites in the world, and the current funding method appears to be working.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2018)

bemused said:


> I don't know, I've given them a donation in the past - but you get fuck all for it so I didn't renew.


doesn't it at least remove the begging message?


----------



## D'wards (Mar 19, 2018)

bemused said:


> I don't know, I've given them a donation in the past - but you get fuck all for it so I didn't renew.


Come on - you get top-drawer fashion advice!


----------



## bemused (Mar 19, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Come on - you get top-drawer fashion advice!



Darling, I'm glorious already.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Mar 19, 2018)

Welcome to Powder Mountain – a utopian club for the millennial elite

Some amusing comments tinged with froth BTL.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 19, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Plus its crossword is a bit rubbish.


I have revised my opinion on this 8 years later.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 19, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> If you want to eat out, you should fork out
> 
> Pay more for food you tight bastards.


Isn't that fucker Rayner a restaurant critic? The irony is he pays _nothing at all_ for his scran.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 19, 2018)

killer b said:


> It's the sixth most read news website in the world. If they can make that pay (and it looks like they are on the verge of doing so, precisely through _having their hand out_), the paper sales in the UK are pretty irrelevant.


Yep, I can very much believe that the _please fund us_ will work for them. Also works with the longer term strategy to become bigger in the US.


----------



## bemused (Mar 19, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Isn't that fucker Rayner a restaurant critic? The irony is he pays _nothing at all_ for his scran.



Guardian has overtaken the Daily Mail for the go-to place for middle-class whining.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2018)

bemused said:


> Guardian has overtaken the Daily Mail for the go-to place for middle-class whining.


The mail's been a distant also-ran for years now


----------



## bemused (Mar 19, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> The mail's been a distant also-ran for years now



Although they're number 1 for stories about sex offenders and upskirt shots of women on the same page. I think they'll never be toppled.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 23, 2018)

Owen Smith might have been an embarrassingly shit leadership candidate, but at least the Guardian still loves him: Owen Smith calls for public poll on final Brexit deal


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Owen Smith might have been an embarrassingly shit leadership candidate, but at least the Guardian still loves him: Owen Smith calls for public poll on final Brexit deal


cue ghost of brucie going 'owen, you're my favourite'


----------



## killer b (Mar 23, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Owen Smith might have been an embarrassingly shit leadership candidate, but at least the Guardian still loves him: Owen Smith calls for public poll on final Brexit deal


...and he's now been sacked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2018)

killer b said:


> ...and he's now been sacked.


Sadly not with a kahr p45


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2018)

He shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old: 
Age shall not weary him, nor the years contemn. 
At the going down of the sun and in the morning 
We will remember him.


----------



## Rob Ray (Mar 24, 2018)




----------



## stethoscope (Mar 24, 2018)

_'If I can learn to love it so can anybody'_
"On the BBC Radio 4 programme _Chain Reaction_, he stated that he considers himself a middle class Mancunian. He was educated at Manchester Grammar School, an independent school for boys in Manchester."


----------



## andysays (Mar 24, 2018)

The feelings they evoke may be universal, but they're not unique to opera and nor, more importantly, is the experience of opera available on anything like a universal basis.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 24, 2018)

To be fair, I’ve been to see opera for £20*.  Only looking at the Royal Opera House is hardly going to show you the affordable end of the range.

*specifically this (fully professional) performance last year, which was great: Opera Holloway presents Così Fan Tutte  - Sullington Tithe Barn - Sep 10


----------



## Santino (Mar 26, 2018)

I believe that select performances are even shown at the kinema-house.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 28, 2018)

Liberals should work with the far right To save Hungary's liberal democracy, centrists must work with the far right | Cas Mudde


----------



## petee (Mar 29, 2018)

the music!


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 29, 2018)

Dom Traynor said:


> Liberals should work with the far right To save Hungary's liberal democracy, centrists must work with the far right | Cas Mudde


This prick's previous pieces marked him out as a cunt but this is just fucking amazing.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 29, 2018)

And he's the go to man for the liberals for light academic fluff on populism. Since trump his stuff has got 
steadily worse. He used to do some decent stuff.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 29, 2018)

Dom Traynor said:


> Liberals should work with the far right To save Hungary's liberal democracy, centrists must work with the far right | Cas Mudde



Someone beat me to it. 

Next week in the guardian: how to cure cancer by giving yourself another, slightly different form of cancer.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 29, 2018)

Dom Traynor said:


> Liberals should work with the far right To save Hungary's liberal democracy, centrists must work with the far right | Cas Mudde


shurely 'muddle'


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 29, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> And he's the go to man for the liberals for light academic fluff on populism. Since trump his stuff has got
> steadily worse. He used to do some decent stuff.


Some of his analysis pieces are still semi-reasonable, for example this one on the Russia-Trump crap.


> In other words, the Russia-Trump collusion story might be the talk of the town in Washington, but this is not the case in much of the rest of the country. Just four in 10 Americans believe the Russia investigation is “extremely” or “very” important to them, while issues like immigration, taxes and health care are all considered much more important, also by most Democrats. These are the issues that will bring them out to vote, not the Russia investigation.


But his actual politics are terrible.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 29, 2018)

Dom Traynor said:


> Liberals should work with the far right To save Hungary's liberal democracy, centrists must work with the far right | Cas Mudde



Labour could send over a few people to talk about the Soros mural.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 1, 2018)

It's quite difficult to spot which are the actual spoof articles on the Guardian website.


----------



## sealion (Apr 4, 2018)

Perfect prams for perfect parents: the rise of the bougie buggy


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 5, 2018)

2016: The EU is great and brought us workers' rights 
2017: Macron is way cool and will save us from Fascism. 
2018: Crush the Unions:

The Guardian view on France’s transport strikes: make or break for Macron | Editorial


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> 2016: The EU is great and brought us workers' rights
> 2017: Macron is way cool and will save us from Fascism.
> 2018: Crush the Unions:
> 
> The Guardian view on France’s transport strikes: make or break for Macron | Editorial


proper shit that, saw it yesterday. Especially the 'OK well yes our privatised rail is fucking awful but nationalisation is also bad'. And the shit at the start 'only 11%' thats right, evil minority union with their generous money. These liberal twats must _want _a le pen


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Apr 7, 2018)

Autobiographical TV: it's not worth the family drama

In what's ostensibly a tv column, the talentless hack manages to plug his shitty book where he dumps all over his brother. Cunt.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 7, 2018)

Admiral Fitz said:


> Autobiographical TV: it's not worth the family drama
> 
> In what's ostensibly a tv column, the talentless hack manages to plug his shitty book where he dumps all over his brother. Cunt.


Horrible. I don't know what he thought he was doing there but his editor should not have let him publish it. Either the book or the column.


----------



## rekil (Apr 7, 2018)

Staines puff piece. 

Guido Fawkes: a cross between a comic and a propaganda machine


----------



## stavros (Apr 7, 2018)

Admiral Fitz said:


> Autobiographical TV: it's not worth the family drama
> 
> In what's ostensibly a tv column, the talentless hack manages to plug his shitty book where he dumps all over his brother. Cunt.



Do you think the Graun's accountants tell them to offer self-puff pieces to hacks who might waive their fee for the column?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 7, 2018)

Mad, wishful thinking nonsense 


> The project appears to be the most significant attempt to challenge the main parties yet to emerge. However, Britain’s electoral system and the reluctance of existing politicians to make the jump makes it extremely difficult to make a success of a new party.
> 
> The formation of a new party could represent a challenge to both the Lib Dems, who remain in the doldrums, and Labour, which is divided over Corbyn’s leadership and has been plagued by accusations of antisemitism by some members.


Even if this "party" intend to challenge it's dead in the water before it begins. Ludicrous nonsense.


----------



## mrs quoad (Apr 7, 2018)

redsquirrel said:


> Mad, wishful thinking nonsense
> 
> Even if this "party" intend to challenge it's dead in the water before it begins. Ludicrous nonsense.


They said that about Jezza


----------



## fieryjack (Apr 7, 2018)

well, certainly The Guardian did. This is their wet dream, all they need is David Milliband to come back to helm (or Chuka/Dan Jarvis) and the Suzanne Moore/Polly Toynbee articles will roll right in


----------



## bemused (Apr 8, 2018)

fieryjack said:


> well, certainly The Guardian did. This is their wet dream, all they need is David Milliband to come back to helm (or Chuka/Dan Jarvis) and the Suzanne Moore/Polly Toynbee articles will roll right in



I've always thought that personal charm is the biggest attribute of a political leader; everything else can be sort by the political machine. 

Blair has tremendous charm, even when you see him speak today he's still more watchable than most of the generic talking heads. Cameron was a very pleasant chap in the media. I'm not sure what happened with William Hague who turned out the be very charming and funny once he wasn't a leader. Whatever you think of these people they are/were able to connect with enough people to be electorally successful. 

May has no media charm, by Jeeza does - I suspect that's why he's done so well. 

David Milliband is no doubt smart and probably an effective leader - but he's just another charmless cookie-cutter politician.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 9, 2018)

Guardian calls for more regime chemical attacks to bring assad victory closer - only thing to end the killing._ Make two, three, many Doumas!_

Only Assad’s victory will end Syria’s civil war. The west can do nothing


----------



## 8115 (Apr 9, 2018)

Have we had this little charmer yet?

‘I started my business from scratch and now work two weeks a month’


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 9, 2018)

Olly Murs suggests Oxford Circus terror scare could have been a 'cover-up'

This is just a shit story. 

Murs is narked about people taking the piss out of him, basically.


----------



## Libertad (Apr 9, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Olly Murs suggests Oxford Circus terror scare could have been a 'cover-up'
> 
> This is just a shit story.
> 
> Murs is narked about people taking the piss out of him, basically.



twentythreedom


----------



## twentythreedom (Apr 9, 2018)

See? I was right!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Apr 9, 2018)

8115 said:


> Have we had this little charmer yet?
> 
> ‘I started my business from scratch and now work two weeks a month’



What the fuck?  It's basically a rich wanker showing off.  Yuk.


----------



## MickiQ (Apr 9, 2018)

ElizabethofYork said:


> What the fuck?  It's basically a rich wanker showing off.  Yuk.


I try not to hate on people just for being successful or rich but it's very difficult to read that without loathing him, He probably isn't bothered about living alone since he's obviously in love with himself.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 9, 2018)

ElizabethofYork said:


> What the fuck?  It's basically a rich wanker showing off.  Yuk.



Personally I won't be impressed until he has the funds to start a new centrist party.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 12, 2018)

Fucking drivel

The night I had to choose between Russell Crowe and Jimmy Barnes | Brigid Delaney's diary


----------



## rekil (Apr 12, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> Fucking drivel
> 
> The night I had to choose between Russell Crowe and Jimmy Barnes | Brigid Delaney's diary





Spoiler


----------



## stavros (Apr 15, 2018)

'Team Meghan' helps Markle prepare for life as a princess

Are there any mainstream media outlets left which challenge the concept of monarchy and the overload of exposure we can be subjected to?


----------



## MickiQ (Apr 15, 2018)

The Oxfam shop in Stratford-on-Avon is selling Royal Wedding tat if any urbans are interested in it, they have teapots, cups and plates with pictures of the happy couple on them, Didn't buy any cos we have a dishwasher and I suspect it wouldn't survive many washes.


----------



## rekil (Apr 17, 2018)

Please stop.

Steve Bell’s If ... Trump calls on French poodle Macron for help



Spoiler


----------



## Treacle Toes (Apr 18, 2018)

May revels as Tory MPs shout down trigger-shy Syria sissy Corbyn | John Crace

'kin 'ell ...sissy?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 19, 2018)




----------



## Sue (Apr 19, 2018)

copliker said:


> Please stop.
> 
> Steve Bell’s If ... Trump calls on French poodle Macron for help
> 
> ...


That's even more godawful than his usual. He really is spectacularly shit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2018)

this was nice:




			
				Owen Jones said:
			
		

> 'Macron is a pound-shop Margaret Thatcher'



Somebody give him a bag of crisps and a half



I know this is the 'guardian is shit' thread but that was fairly refreshing given how egregiously the groan tongues macrons ringpiece normally


----------



## rekil (Apr 19, 2018)

_Why it's time to retire the "x is a pound shop y" apophthegm _


----------



## newbie (Apr 27, 2018)

My adblock hasn't changed but today I'm seeing adverts where yesterday I wasn't.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2018)




----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2018)

just marry him then GMG

Dandruff diplomacy: why Macron groomed Trump but Merkel got the brush-off


----------



## J Ed (Apr 29, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> just marry him then GMG
> 
> Dandruff diplomacy: why Macron groomed Trump but Merkel got the brush-off



You would think that the closeness of the relationship to Trump might be cause to reconsider their Macron worship but no, it only makes it stronger. Big liberal strongman.


----------



## The Pale King (Apr 29, 2018)

J Ed said:


> You would think that the closeness of the relationship to Trump might be cause to reconsider their Macron worship but no, it only makes it stronger. Big liberal strongman.



'Muscular liberalism'


----------



## ska invita (Apr 30, 2018)

My impression is the Guardian can take a good dose of credit for Rudd's scalp. They've been steadily reporting the deportations and other injustices the last two years, pretty much on their own, and I think they hit the final nail in the coffin yesterday. Looks like good campaigning and investigative journalism to me.


----------



## bemused (Apr 30, 2018)

ska invita said:


> My impression is the Guardian can take a good dose of credit for Rudd's scalp. They've been steadily reporting the deportations and other injustices the last two years, pretty much on their own, and I think they hit the final nail in the coffin yesterday. Looks like good campaigning and investigative journalism to me.



Publishing the letter of her outlining targets was the key moment.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 3, 2018)

Pass the sick bucket. Lovely, lovely developers and council leaders


> Bradford council’s chief executive, Kersten England, is a woman on a mission. She burns with a determination to pull the city around, and aims “to make Bradford the Shoreditch of South Yorkshire”. She declines to join the northern chorus for more grants, subsidies and attention from London. ... She wants “not to do things, but to help others to do them” – to facilitate the revival of an “alternative Bradford”.





> Up the road from Rawson Square is David Craig’s Assembly warehouse, host to a group of freelance designers and publishers. ... He and his colleagues “have a passion for the city”, even though only a few live there. As yet they are less a hub than an oasis.





> Bradford is the most challenging by far. It is lucky to have in England, her council leader, Susan Hinchliffe, and Leeds’s Judith Blake, leaders of stature and intelligence, who seem to get the point of Yorkshire’s future. They are well-placed to capitalise on a promised new dawn in Yorkshire politics, with Labour MP Dan Jarvis who will run for mayor of South Yorkshire.


----------



## Admiral Fitz (May 3, 2018)

redsquirrel said:


> Pass the sick bucket. Lovely, lovely developers and council leaders



Why the fuck would any one want to live in the actual Shoreditch, never mind "The Shoreditch of South Yorkshire". Outstanding, now they can pay £7.50 for a bowl of fucking cereal in some shitty hipster cafe.


----------



## belboid (May 3, 2018)

I see they have amended the article now.  You'd have hoped the Manchester Guardian might recognise the difference between South and West Yorkshire.


----------



## rekil (May 7, 2018)

Across the world, democracy is in crisis. Here’s my plan to save it | Dambisa Moyo


> I have been examining electoral systems across the world. In many democracies, including the US and UK, migrants are required to pass government-sanctioned civic tests in order to gain citizenship. So, in this vein, why not give all voters a test of their knowledge? This would ensure minimum standards that should lead to higher-quality decision-making by the electorate. The message this would send is that voting is not just a right, but one that has to be earned. Such testing would not only lead to a better-informed electorate, but also to voters who are more actively engaged.


----------



## emanymton (May 7, 2018)

copliker said:


> Across the world, democracy is in crisis. Here’s my plan to save it | Dambisa Moyo


It has become necessary to destroy democracy in order to save it.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2018)

copliker said:


> Across the world, democracy is in crisis. Here’s my plan to save it | Dambisa Moyo


we've had various stripes of this from liberals since the brexit reff, wankers


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2018)

'She currently serves on the boards of Barclays Bank, the financial services group, Seagate Technology, Chevron Corporation, and Barrick Gold, the global miner.'

it'll be salt not gold come the day


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 7, 2018)

bemused said:


> Publishing the letter of her outlining targets was the key moment.



And waiting until she'd denied all knowledge of those targets to publish it.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 7, 2018)

copliker said:


> Across the world, democracy is in crisis. Here’s my plan to save it | Dambisa Moyo


Dambisa Moyo is a global economist and author. She serves on the boards of Seagate Technology and Barclays Bank

Lovely. One for the anti-democray of liberals thread.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2018)

I'm not even going to read the piece in todays one by stephen kinnock, the man is thick as fucking shit


----------



## stavros (May 9, 2018)

Can anyone counter my intuition that this idea is a bad one? A radical way to cut emissions – ration everyone’s flights | Sonia Sodha


----------



## MickiQ (May 9, 2018)

stavros said:


> Can anyone counter my intuition that this idea is a bad one? A radical way to cut emissions – ration everyone’s flights | Sonia Sodha


Nope agree with you, I presume that the number of air miles everyone gets doesn't include the cost of buying the tickets so poor people get an allowance they can't use, so they have no choice but to sell it on the open market getting a significant sum of money for it which sounds good, except supply and demand kicks in, lots of poor people selling their allowance drives prices down making it cheaper for rich people to fly anyway so rich pay a bit more and poor get a lot less.
Then some bright spark in a focus group says "Hey we're giving people free money here, if they sell it lets tax it, if they're on benefits let's stop an equivalent sum out of their housing benefit (or whatever) so poor people end up subsidising rich people's air travel out of their benefits.


----------



## stavros (May 9, 2018)

My initial thought was that it would exist within the current free market environment, where growth is often the defining factor, and the kind of shrinkage required wouldn't be accepted.


----------



## MickiQ (May 9, 2018)

stavros said:


> My initial thought was that it would exist within the current free market environment, where growth is often the defining factor, and the kind of shrinkage required wouldn't be accepted.


that makes two reasons it's a stupid idea, well-meaning perhaps but still stupid.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 10, 2018)

stavros said:


> Can anyone counter my intuition that this idea is a bad one? A radical way to cut emissions – ration everyone’s flights | Sonia Sodha



It's the 'tradeable' bit I disapprove of, poor folks who maybe can't afford to fly anyway selling their allowane to the rich. Any kind of attempt to marketise stuff like this is doomed to fail IMO, as it's not going to stop the most damaging beaviour ie business cunts hooning it around the globe all the time. It would need to be global too or our business cunts will piss and moan about how they're now at a disadvantage against German or Japanese business cunts.

e2a: She's actually suggesting businesses get an air miles allowance as if they were people. These fucking liberals, even when they've nailed down 'global capitalism' as the principle cause of a problem they still look for a solution rooted in global capitalism and which won't upset any capitalists


----------



## MickiQ (May 10, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's the 'tradeable' bit I disapprove of, poor folks who maybe can't afford to fly anyway selling their allowane to the rich. Any kind of attempt to marketise stuff like this is doomed to fail IMO, as it's not going to stop the most damaging beaviour ie business cunts hooning it around the globe all the time. It would need to be global too or our business cunts will piss and moan about how they're now at a disadvantage against German or Japanese business cunts.
> 
> e2a: She's actually suggesting businesses get an air miles allowance as if they were people. These fucking liberals, even when they've nailed down 'global capitalism' as the principle cause of a problem they still look for a solution rooted in global capitalism and which won't upset any capitalists


it won't fail so much as become yet another tradeable commodity, there are already way too many people creaming off the top by buying and selling stuff that doesn't actually exist without adding more.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> it won't fail so much as become yet another tradeable commodity, there are already way too many people creaming off the top by buying and selling stuff that doesn't actually exist without adding more.



It'll also provide new and exciting forms of inequality.

I'm damned if I'm gonna give up my very occasional flight to somewhere cheap and cheerful to try and save the planet when there's other people cunting about in private planes just to show they can. If we're all doomed anyway I wanna die with some nice memories of that week in Sardinia.

But if there's a market, and if I can make a few much needed pennies in a lean month by selling my year's allowance of flying, the reality is I'll probably end up doing it. I'll still be on the bones of my arse, but that prospect of maybe getting away somewere in a few months' time will be gone.

The only fair way to do it would be ground everyone in Europe and the US until the nice people of Mozambique and El Salvador have had the chance to fly around as much as we have already, then ban flights for everyone.


----------



## MickiQ (May 10, 2018)

I'm not totally convinced that this plan wouldn't actually increase flights for some people, In 31 years of marriage Mrs MickiQ and I (accompanied by 0 to 4 children) have had 17 foreign holidays, 12 UK ones and 2 years with no holidays at all. In all cases the deciding factor on where to go has been money, Under this woman's plan we would get our air miles allowance for three short-haul flights a year but we have only ever taken 1 so we would have been able to sell 2 and use the money to at least subsidise if not completely pay for the 3rd which would probably means some if not all of the 12 UK holidays would have been foreign instead using a plane rather than packing the kids and all their crap into the car.


----------



## stavros (May 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> I'm not totally convinced that this plan wouldn't actually increase flights for some people, In 31 years of marriage Mrs MickiQ and I (accompanied by 0 to 4 children) have had 17 foreign holidays, 12 UK ones and 2 years with no holidays at all. In all cases the deciding factor on where to go has been money, Under this woman's plan we would get our air miles allowance for three short-haul flights a year but we have only ever taken 1 so we would have been able to sell 2 and use the money to at least subsidise if not completely pay for the 3rd which would probably means some if not all of the 12 UK holidays would have been foreign instead using a plane rather than packing the kids and all their crap into the car.



I would be wary of equating going abroad with flying. For Western Europe, ferries* and high speed trains achieve the same end result, albeit probably less quickly for those outside the South-East.

*Boat travel not being without negative environmental side effects.


----------



## MickiQ (May 10, 2018)

stavros said:


> I would be wary of equating going abroad with flying. For Western Europe, ferries* and high speed trains achieve the same end result, albeit probably less quickly for those outside the South-East.
> 
> *Boat travel not being without negative environmental side effects.


The Guardian article was about air travel especially long distance, apart from 2 trips to Florida, all our flights have indeed been Western Europe (Croatia the farthest) however for the MickiQ's the only way off this island is by air, Mrs MickiQ is scared of flying but the only way I would get her through the Chunnel would be to knock her out first, strange for a woman that loves to travel.


----------



## Poi E (May 11, 2018)

Guardian engaged Tory Scotsman writer to attack baby boxes The SNP has caused its own baby box blues | Dani Garavelli

London media are a bunch of fucking morons.


----------



## Fez909 (May 11, 2018)

Is this "peak Guardian"?

Should you ask your baby’s consent before changing their nappy? No, that would be gaslighting


----------



## MickiQ (May 11, 2018)

Fez909 said:


> Is this "peak Guardian"?
> 
> Should you ask your baby’s consent before changing their nappy? No, that would be gaslighting


Considering the smell that sometimes came out of my kids nappies when they were little,  I would be careful with phrases like gaslighting.


----------



## J Ed (May 13, 2018)

One million students join calls for vote on Brexit deal

Headline: One million students join calls for vote on Brexit deal

Reality: Student organisations *representing *almost a million young people studying at UK universities and colleges are today joining forces to demand a referendum on any final Brexit deal, amid growing fears that leaving the EU will have a disastrous effect on their future prospects.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2018)

'Channel 4’s discussion on gender and identity ddin’t work, but that it was tried offers hope'


mate


----------



## planetgeli (May 19, 2018)

Get ready to puke.

Does my bum look big enough? Women seek to mould a larger look

* Does my bum look big enough? Women seek to mould a larger look *
Bigger bottoms, hips and thighs are now in vogue, meaning more time at the gym for some women

“The demand is huge,” confirms Dr Gary Horn, of the Harley Buttock Clinic

Bums are, literally, a growth market.

It’s definitely a fashion and media thing – and it’s going up,” says Horn.

Bodily proportions that have come naturally for many black, Latina and Asian women are now being mainstreamed and fetishised in popular culture by way of celebrity, fashion and social media.



Ah fuck it. I give up. (Don't) read it yourself.


----------



## sealion (May 19, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Dr Gary Horn, of the Harley Buttock Clinic




That's all the reading i need to do


----------



## kebabking (May 19, 2018)

of the 10 most viewed things in the Grinaud, 8 are the wedding in various ways, and the other 2 are football.


----------



## Rob Ray (May 20, 2018)

Well it _was_ a "rousing celebration of blackness."


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Get ready to puke.
> 
> Does my bum look big enough? Women seek to mould a larger look
> 
> ...


It could have been from viz


----------



## LDC (May 20, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Well it _was_ a "rousing celebration of blackness."



Peak identity politics thread that way thank you - - - - - - >


----------



## stavros (May 20, 2018)

kebabking said:


> of the 10 most viewed things in the Grinaud, 8 are the wedding in various ways, and the other 2 are football.



Yes, the print edition yesterday has Younge and Hyde putting the case against the monarchy, plus an editorial emphasising the Graun's republican leanings. This is in amongst the 94 pages of further coverage on it.


----------



## agricola (May 20, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Get ready to puke.
> 
> Does my bum look big enough? Women seek to mould a larger look
> 
> ...



From having a big arse to making oneself look like one, here is today's offering from Toby Helm and Michael Savage:



> It was the moment that pro-Remain Conservative MPs had been longing for, but feared would never happen – when the prime minister cut the arch-Brexiter Jacob Rees-Mogg down to size. One MP who witnessed Theresa May’s newfound assertiveness likened it to a long-suffering teacher finally losing patience with the class know-all. “She just slapped him down, decisively. She showed she can do it. She was brilliant.”
> 
> Five groups of about 30 Tory MPs at a time had been asked into the chief whip’s office in No 9 Downing Street last Monday. May’s chief of staff, Gavin Barwell, had been told to brief them on the two options for solving the seemingly intractable Irish border problem that threatens the Brexit process.
> 
> ...


----------



## rekil (May 22, 2018)

Argentina forced to seek IMF aid over fears for economy

It's that god's fault, not shitty ideology or institutionalised corruption.



> A drought that has severely damaged the country’s important agricultural sector was cited by analysts as one of the main causes of the recent troubles.


----------



## gosub (May 22, 2018)

A former runner up on Bake Off's idea of pudding


----------



## Orang Utan (May 22, 2018)

gosub said:


> A former runner up on Bake Off's idea of pudding


Came here to post that. Apparently it took four people to chuck some biscuits, chocolate and fruit on a plate and photograph it


----------



## JimW (May 22, 2018)

Carving the cows must have taken a while though.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2018)

JimW said:


> Carving the cows must have taken a while though.


that was done by a crack band of whittlers from the grenadier guards


----------



## JimW (May 22, 2018)

That's the Mal, Ted and "Milky" who signed them?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2018)

waste of decent cow biscuits, they're dunkers only.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 22, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> waste of decent cow biscuits, they're dunkers only.


May I present to the class possibly the best mainstream biscuit since the Hobnob...






...the chocolate malted milk 

Clearly intended as a budget approximation of the Choco Leibniz, it is actually a far superior offering because it's not based on a fucking Rich Tea.

All the big supermarkets have their versions of it now, all are delicious. Excellent for dunking, snacking, dipping, munching, devouring and nibbling. Very minimal beverage contact disintegration rating.


----------



## Admiral Fitz (May 23, 2018)

Westworld annoys the hell out of me – but is it OK to give up on it?

Dull, pretentious wanker has lost patience with a tv programme and thinks we should take an interest in his dilemma. So, what do we all think?  Answers on a postcard please.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 23, 2018)

Admiral Fitz said:


> Westworld annoys the hell out of me – but is it OK to give up on it?
> 
> Dull, pretentious wanker has lost patience with a tv programme and thinks we should take an interest in his dilemma. So, what do we all think?  Answers on a postcard please.



Unlike me, you've taken the time to read the article, I presume. What do you think?


----------



## belboid (May 23, 2018)

Admiral Fitz said:


> Westworld annoys the hell out of me – but is it OK to give up on it?
> 
> Dull, pretentious wanker has lost patience with a tv programme and thinks we should take an interest in his dilemma. So, what do we all think?  Answers on a postcard please.


what's pretentious about the piece?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 23, 2018)

Admiral Fitz said:


> Westworld annoys the hell out of me – but is it OK to give up on it?
> 
> Dull, pretentious wanker has lost patience with a tv programme and thinks we should take an interest in his dilemma. So, what do we all think?  Answers on a postcard please.


His job is to write about TV. He wrote an article about a TV programme. I think his comments are fair.


----------



## agricola (May 23, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> His job is to write about TV. He wrote an article about a TV programme. I think his comments are fair.



Certainly on the basis of what the second season has been like.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 23, 2018)

didn't even finish the first. There is only yul


----------



## Admiral Fitz (May 23, 2018)

OK, you've got me bang to rights. I have an irrational dislike of him, based on previous columns he's written. I just wanted to post and have the Urban collective give him a kicking, small minded of me, but there you go.


----------



## campanula (May 23, 2018)

Admiral Fitz said:


> small minded of me, but there you go.



Ah, well, I also think he is an utter twat (and feel my intense dislike is entirely rational).


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2018)

another day another another boosting article for astro turf groupsucle Best for Britain. Miller is once again simply 'a pro EU campaigner'

things were different, in another newspaper some time ago


----------



## bemused (May 29, 2018)

gosub said:


> A former runner up on Bake Off's idea of pudding



That's a step down from when my kids learned to cook at school.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2018)

bemused said:


> That's a step down from when my kids learned to cook at school.


from when? surely from what.


----------



## gosub (May 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> from when? surely from what.



even chocolate coated cornflakes teaches kids to ban marie


----------



## agricola (May 31, 2018)

_"So we've got this great article that reports how the Scottish Government has declined to bring in a law making misogynistic harrassment illegal.  Whats the best picture we can select to illustrate what this story is about?"_

Scotland declines to introduce misogynistic harassment law


----------



## stavros (Jun 1, 2018)

A rather tortured metaphor: _Brexit is like Shrek_.


----------



## bimble (Jun 7, 2018)

Planning my wedding as a non-binary bride


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 7, 2018)

bimble said:


> Planning my wedding as a non-binary bride


did you read the article? not sure why it warrants a facepalm, unless you're a Mail reader type who scoffs at 'snowflakes'


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 7, 2018)

I thought the article was a bit silly but no more so than other articles about weddings tbh.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 7, 2018)

frogwoman said:


> I thought the article was a bit silly but no more so than other articles about weddings tbh.


aye, i thought it was interesting to hear from that perspective (but also a bit confused as to why people still want to get married after all this progress)


----------



## bimble (Jun 7, 2018)

I found the self absorrbtion of it totally laughable. Its a straight woman getting married in a white dress ffs, just not a frilly one. How radical and interesting.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 7, 2018)

bimble said:


> I found the self absorrbtion of it totally laughable. Its a straight woman getting married in a white dress ffs, just not a frilly one. How radical and interesting.


you didn't read it then, or you are deliberately misgendering someone.


----------



## bimble (Jun 7, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> you didn't read it then, or you are deliberately misgendering someone.


Eh? Don't want to get into this just found it a ridiculous self important article by someone who basically just wanted to wear a dress like grace kelley's.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 7, 2018)

bimble said:


> Eh? Don't want to get into this just found it a ridiculous self important article by someone who basically just wanted to wear a dress like grace kelley's.


it was more about how they felt about this as someone who identifies as non-binary. I find it interesting to hear even such 'minor' things as what to wear from such a perspective, and that it would do us all good to listen to such voices.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

bimble said:


> Eh? Don't want to get into this just found it a ridiculous self important article by someone who basically just wanted to wear a dress like grace kelley's.


strange how often you say something and then declare you don't want to discuss it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 7, 2018)

This however is definitely nonsense.



The article itself, which continues onwards being really confused and pointless: The Guardian view on free software: big companies are in it for the money| Editorial


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 7, 2018)

I dunno what GitHub is. Sounds like another name for Wetherspoons tbh.


----------



## The Pale King (Jun 7, 2018)

'Mixture of Rousseau with Ayn Rand' ffs


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 7, 2018)

bimble said:


> I found the self absorrbtion of it totally laughable. Its a straight woman getting married in a white dress ffs, just not a frilly one. How radical and interesting.


It's not that at all. The author clearly states she is trans at one point. It's self absorbed, but as frogwoman says no more so than other bridal articles. But she is categorically not a 'straight woman getting married in a white dress'.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I dunno what GitHub is. Sounds like another name for Wetherspoons tbh.


It's a software platform iirc. But the guardian article is pretentious wank.


----------



## gosub (Jun 7, 2018)

The forgotten suffragette jailed for blowing up a post box


Glorifying terrorists


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 7, 2018)

gosub said:


> The forgotten suffragette jailed for blowing up a post box
> 
> 
> Glorifying terrorists


As a feminist I'm in two minds about the label 'terrorist' to actions of suffragettes, especially given how the label is quickly applied in modern times.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 7, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I dunno what GitHub is. Sounds like another name for Wetherspoons tbh.


Well you’ll never get a job writing Guardian editorials with that sort of attitude. You have to come up with at least one nonsensical hot take and then waffle irrelevantly until you’ve hit the word count.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 7, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well you’ll never get a job writing Guardian editorials with that sort of attitude. You have to come up with at least one nonsensical hot take and then waffle irrelevantly until you’ve hit the word count.



Anyone familiar with my postings on this site will know I'm more than capable of doing that.


----------



## belboid (Jun 7, 2018)

Spiked by Viner for anti-semitism.


----------



## stavros (Jun 8, 2018)

From the sports section, supposedly showing Billy Vunipola's positive effect on the England rugby team when he plays. I wholeheartedly agree he is a key player when fit. However, the table below, if anything, shows that England have a better winning record without him in the time analysed (note that time is too short to form any such conclusion, one way or the other).


----------



## emanymton (Jun 9, 2018)

Au pair shortage sparks childcare crisis for families


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jun 9, 2018)

Is that the guardian or the daily mash?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Au pair shortage sparks childcare crisis for families


 
Not exactly a 'crisis' is it


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2018)

Another solid victory for Lexit


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 9, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Au pair shortage sparks childcare crisis for families



Families forced, forced to spend time with their own children.


----------



## LDC (Jun 9, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Au pair shortage sparks childcare crisis for families



I was just about the post the same. Surely peak_ Guardian_?


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jun 9, 2018)

It's written by someone called Rupert FFS.


----------



## fishfinger (Jun 9, 2018)

PursuedByBears said:


> It's written by someone called Rupert FFS.


I can see why that would bother you


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 9, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I was just about the post the same. Surely peak_ Guardian_?



No matter how low they set the bar they'll always find a way to crawl under it next week.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 9, 2018)

The comments make me wish I had a machine gun.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 9, 2018)

seventh bullet said:


> The comments make me wish I had a machine gun.


Never, ever, read the comments. Ever.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 10, 2018)

What's the difference between an au pair and a babysitter? And why do they always seem to be foreign?


----------



## scifisam (Jun 10, 2018)

NoXion said:


> What's the difference between an au pair and a babysitter? And why do they always seem to be foreign?



An au pair is a person from another country who comes to the UK to learn English and pays for their studies, and their rent, by doing childcare and assume light housework for the family whose house they live in. They generally do about 30 hours a week.

A babysitter is someone who comes to your house now and then to look after your children, usually in the evening. They're not an official childcare worker at all. They might not even be paid if they're a friend or family member. 

Very little in common at all really.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 10, 2018)

It's exploitation as novelty and 'cultural exchange' for middle class people who can't/won't pay for a nanny.  And the racist, envious povs who voted for Brexit are ruining everything, or something.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 10, 2018)

NoXion said:


> What's the difference between an au pair and a babysitter? And why do they always seem to be foreign?



Babysitters/childminders get paid minimum wage. Au pairs get room and board plus pocket money, an 'opportunity' for rich kids who don't actually need a paying job to experience life in a foreign country and look after some braying bourgeois spawn into the bargain.

Basically it's an older version of the 'internship' scam.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 10, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Babysitters/childminders get paid minimum wage. Au pairs get room and board plus pocket money, an 'opportunity' for rich kids who don't actually need a paying job to experience life in a foreign country and look after some braying bourgeois spawn into the bargain.
> 
> Basically it's an older version of the 'internship' scam.



I don't think it's mostly rich kids. Rich kids just pay their own fees and rent without having to deal with other people's kids.

Whether it's a good experience for the au pair varies hugely, but it can be great, and financially it's usually really good because tuition fees, board and rent cost so much. It's got absolutely zero in common with an internship.

Babysitters and childminders are not the same thing at all. Babysitters are informal arrangements and don't have to be paid minimum wage, but don't need any qualifications either.

Childminders also don't have to be paid minimum wage - they're self-employed, so minimum wage doesn't apply, and usually look after kids from more than one family. They do need qualifications, have to do tons of paperwork and have regular inspections.


----------



## Mr Smin (Jun 10, 2018)

thelocal website (maybe the Denmark one, can't recall) had a piece from a lobby group of Brits resident in the EU. 
Several sensible points and then they wrecked it by talking about how people who want to stay in their second homes abroad for long periods might not be able to in future. It's hard to feel a sense of solidarity with second home owners when you can only just afford your own rent.

I'm waiting for the guardian to pick it up since it will obviously affect some of their writers.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jun 12, 2018)

Straight eye for the queer guy – Owen Jones gets a (much-needed) makeover


----------



## D'wards (Jun 13, 2018)

Quite a good article, but that sub heading is something else...

Women shun cycling because of safety, not helmet hair | Helen Pidd


----------



## Poi E (Jun 16, 2018)

Blind date: ‘We spoke about baking cakes at altitude’

Chris, an artist, spoke with Helly, a technology consultant, about baking cakes at altitude.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 16, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Quite a good article, but that sub heading is something else...
> 
> Women shun cycling because of safety, not helmet hair | Helen Pidd


Are we sure women don't shun cycling because they are less likely to be an arrogant, self-rightous dick?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Quite a good article, but that sub heading is something else...
> 
> Women shun cycling because of safety, not helmet hair | Helen Pidd


Paging weepiper for expert opinion.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Quite a good article, but that sub heading is something else...
> 
> Women shun cycling because of safety, not helmet hair | Helen Pidd


one issue not addressed in that article is that of cycling instruction, which may be germane to the issue. just on the subject o helmet hair, the way many cyclists wear their helmets prevents them receiving the protection they believe they will have. newsflash: wearing a helmet at a jaunty angle or wearing a woolly hat underneath or wearing the helmet without straps fastened means that you might as well not be wearing a helmet at all for all the good it will do.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 16, 2018)

Entertainers, you’re not all narcissistic windbags – but keep it short, please | Fiona Sturges

performers are not all "narcissistic windbags" apparently. Guardian columnists on the other hand...


----------



## ska invita (Jun 20, 2018)

ska invita said:


> My impression is the Guardian can take a good dose of credit for Rudd's scalp. They've been steadily reporting the deportations and other injustices the last two years, pretty much on their own, and I think they hit the final nail in the coffin yesterday. Looks like good campaigning and investigative journalism to me.


Guardian's Amelia Gentleman wins prize for Windrush reporting
Well deserved
...sadly the pressure went off the government a fair bit since Rudd's demotion, though I think the Guardian haven't moved on from the story


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

D'wards said:


> Quite a good article, but that sub heading is something else...
> 
> Women shun cycling because of safety, not helmet hair | Helen Pidd



How would a cycle lane desgined for women be different than a cycle lane designed for men?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> How would a cycle lane desgined for women be different than a cycle lane designed for men?


Reread the article


----------



## JimW (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> How would a cycle lane desgined for women be different than a cycle lane designed for men?


Its use would be restricted to the one sex not the other


----------



## scifisam (Jun 20, 2018)

You guys know that a segregated cycle lane is one that's separate from other traffic, right? It's not one that bans men or brown people.


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Reread the article



I read it and her premise seems to be that the lack of segegated cycle lanes seems to be the fault of predominaly male city planners and that this male cotery is deterring women from cycling. 

She quotes Brice as saying: 



> Fifty-one per cent of the UK population is female, yet most of our cities are failing to design roads and streets for women to cycle[..]



The author then goes on to use the example of Richard Leese of Manchestert Council who didn't support segegated cycle lanes as of example of her premise that men are designing roads in such a way that they kill women. 

Helan Pidd has previous reported that the vast majoirty (75%) of peple in urban of any sex support segegated cycle lanes and that the introduction of them in London delivered a 50% increase in cyclists. Dedicated cycling infrasturuture simply gets more people on bikes whatever their sex.

The lack of safe cycling infrastructure isn't because most city planners are men, it's because most cities don't want to spend the money and reduce space for cars to build them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> I read it and her premise seems to be that the lack of segegated cycle lanes seems to be the fault of predominaly male city planners and that this male cotery is deterring women from cycling.
> 
> She quotes Brice as saying:
> 
> ...


She says nothing pejorative in the article which has so confused you about male design of cycle lanes being an issue

I know you have *read* the article
I asked you to *reread* the article

It's like herding cats


----------



## scifisam (Jun 20, 2018)

Yes, but she's not asking for women only cycle lanes, as was claimed.


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> She says nothing pejorative in the article which has so confused you about male design of cycle lanes being an issue



The tone of the tagline 





> Roads designed by men are killing women – and stop millions from cycling


 confuses the article. 

It quotes Brice (one of the architects of the London cycle network) as saying: 



> Fifty-one per cent of the UK population is female, yet most of our cities are failing to design roads and streets for women to cycle,[..]



Which leads to the simple question, how does the street design that encourages women to cycle differ from that would encourage men to cycle? 

The fundamental point is that dedicated cycling infrastructure is safer and more people use it - that's a fair point.

I don't think she's being pejorative to men, but I she hasn't made the case of the gender of planners is preventing roads designed for women to cycle.


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

scifisam said:


> Yes, but she's not asking for women only cycle lanes, as was claimed.



Who claimed this?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> The tone of the tagline  confuses the article.
> 
> It quotes Brice (one of the architects of the London cycle network) as saying:
> 
> ...


you do like shifting the goalposts from your post 7670, which asked about the design of CYCLE LANES not your actual streets.


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> you do like shifting the goalposts from your post 7670, which asked about the design of CYCLE LANES not your actual streets.



She's talking about cycle lanes, segregated from traffic. That is street design.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> Who claimed this?


you did, you pillock:


bemused said:


> How would a cycle lane desgined for women be different than a cycle lane designed for men?


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> you did, you pillock:



Where am I claiming the article wants separate lanes for men and women? 

The article quotes this: 





> Fifty-one per cent of the UK population is female, yet most of our cities are failing to design roads and streets for women to cycle,



The question of how they would design them differently is fair.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> Where am I claiming the article wants separate lanes for men and women?
> 
> The article quotes this:
> 
> The question of how they would design them differently is fair.


jesus mary and joseph you're all over the shop today


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> Where am I claiming the article wants separate lanes for men and women?
> 
> The article quotes this:
> 
> The question of how they would design them differently is fair.


No it isn't cos no one is seriously proposing such a thing


----------



## scifisam (Jun 20, 2018)

Who was talking about separate cycle lanes? I wonder.



bemused said:


> How would a cycle lane desgined for women be different than a cycle lane designed for men?


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

scifisam said:


> Who was talking about separate cycle lanes? I wonder.



I'm commenting on the article in which an expert in cycling infrastructure is quoted as saying cycling infrastructure design is "[..]failing to design roads and streets for women to cycle[..]"

Asking what would be different from now is fair given that comment. You won't find me anywhere suggesting the article is lobbying for sperate cycling infrastructure, rather I'm curious what would be different - something the article fails to specify.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> I'm commenting on the article in which an expert in cycling infrastructure is quoted as saying cycling infrastructure design is "[..]failing to design roads and streets for women to cycle[..]"
> 
> Asking what would be different from now is fair given that comment. You won't find me anywhere suggesting the article is lobbying for sperate cycling infrastructure, rather I'm curious what would be different - something the article fails to specify.



You didn't phrase it that way, though. You said a cycle lane designed for women.

Taking women into account would, I guess, mean taking less aggressive cyclists into account, though there are plenty of men like that too. More passing places, maybe?


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

scifisam said:


> You didn't phrase it that way, though. You said a cycle lane designed for women.
> 
> Taking women into account would, I guess, mean taking less aggressive cyclists into account, though there are plenty of men like that too. More passing places, maybe?



I phrased in the context of the article. 

My criticism of the article is it takes a fundamental truth and then weaves in an odd narrative.

That truth is that if you ask most people who want to cycle but don't why they aren't using a bike, they'll say it's too risky because of mixed traffic. 

Xavier Brice who is quoted in that article will proudly point out that the investment in the London super highway resulted in a 50% jump in cycling, with electric bikes becoming better and cheaper that'll rise. 

If you want people to cycle more removing the risk of mix traffic by building segregated cycle lanes works very well indeed.


----------



## Flavour (Jun 20, 2018)

Netflix addiction is real – we are entertaining ourselves to death | Arwa Mahdawi

"Netflix has become the opium of the masses. Indeed, it is beginning to feel as though we are living in a real-world version of David Foster Wallace’s Infinite Jest; we are entertaining ourselves to death.

To be honest, I am not sure if that analogy is right, because, like most people, I never finished reading Infinite Jest. But I am sure it will be on Netflix soon."

That's the end of the article. It's 335 words long. Are they under pressure to just do a certain number of articles per month, these "journos"? Do the editors not even read this stuff? It's so bad.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2018)

Flavour said:


> Netflix addiction is real – we are entertaining ourselves to death | Arwa Mahdawi
> 
> "Netflix has become the opium of the masses. Indeed, it is beginning to feel as though we are living in a real-world version of David Foster Wallace’s Infinite Jest; we are entertaining ourselves to death.
> 
> ...


there's lots of stuff on netflix i have no desire to watch. the same on regular tv, on amazon prime, on bfi player... just because it's there doesn't mean it needs to be watched.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 20, 2018)

bemused said:


> I phrased in the context of the article.
> 
> My criticism of the article is it takes a fundamental truth and then weaves in an odd narrative.
> 
> ...



I think a lot of people would probably benefit from some sort of cycling course. Like an advanced proficiency test.
Afaik a lot of deaths come from lorries turning left.

 Rule no 1 is never get up the side of a lorry - i also heard that lots of people will avoid lorries until they think they are turning right, and then go up inside, but sometimes they swing out right, to give them an angle to turn left.


----------



## treelover (Jun 21, 2018)

More money will not fix our broken welfare state. We need to reinvent it | Hilary Cottam

Article on how the welfare state needs to change by a social entrepreneur, not more money, not left or right ideas, though she cites Samuel Smiles, Thatchers favourite, funny how these people never seem to realise they have an ideology as much as anyone else.

So, no more demands for money, just basically another big society remould, look how that went.

having said that, there are some good things in it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2018)

lol oxford.


----------



## stavros (Jun 22, 2018)

D'wards said:


> I think a lot of people would probably benefit from some sort of cycling course. Like an advanced proficiency test.



That would be Bikeability Level 3, a step up from what used to be known as the Cycling Proficiency, which is now Level 2. It's designed for teenagers and adults, and most local authorities will deliver it in some form.


----------



## campanula (Jun 23, 2018)

stavros said:


> That would be Bikeability Level 3, a step up from what used to be known as the Cycling Proficiency, which is now Level 2. It's designed for teenagers and adults, and most local authorities will deliver it in some form.



Back in the 80s, my local (Labour) council commissioned my women's video collective to make a short cycling safety video for language students. Almost definitely because we were a politically liberal (trendoid) group rather than having even a smidgeon of cycling 'proficiency'. As 'bad cyclist', I had a torrid time riding into a skip and a random group of loitering students (I enjoyed that more than the skip). I doubt a single person was saved from cycling grief...not least because we had use of a fancy edit suite and overdid the 'special effects'...plus the violently polka-dot dress and ludicrous (Spanish riding) hat. We were paid peanuts though.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 24, 2018)

Attorneys for former Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, want a judge to bar any mention of Manafort’s connections to the president at his trial in Virginia.

Great way to beat the rap. Just say you are no longer yourself.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jun 24, 2018)

“Opposition leaders in Zimbabwe fear the bombing of a ruling party election rally on Saturday will serve as a pretext for a wide-ranging crackdown by the government or the military in the small southern African state.”

Swaziland is a small southern African state. Zimbabwe is pretty big, several Isle of Wights. In fact 490,000 sq km vs the UK at 240,000 sq km.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 25, 2018)

The most Graun article ever

From feta to cauliflower: five ways to beat the halloumi shortage

From feta to cauliflower: five ways to beat the halloumi shortage


----------



## LDC (Jun 28, 2018)

I really appreciate they're trying to get in on the national pastime of laughing at events that go terribly wrong, but they couldn't help themselves but come out with this line...

"His team’s tack is to go down the boutique music festival route: they curate immersive events with a cheap entry ticket, with vendors inside selling their wares at reasonable prices and a lineup-style approach to the dishes on offer; next month’s Asian food festival will see dumplings headline with support from pho and gyoza."


----------



## J Ed (Jun 29, 2018)

Mexico election: the candidates, the stakes and the key issues



> Latin America’s second largest economy will go to the polls on Sunday


----------



## emanymton (Jul 23, 2018)

So an article about an apparent attempt to slit a women's throat ends with the following.



> The five-star hotel occupies half of the Beetham Tower, Manchester’s tallest building. It also contains exclusive flats popular with footballers. In 2017 a penthouse owned by the ex-Manchester United player Phil Neville went on sale for £3.5m.



Because football and property prices are what really matters god damn it.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 23, 2018)

How to be an excellent landlord (Christmas sherry not mandatory) | Penny Anderson

Handy advice I'm sure we can all agree. Who wouldn't want to be an excellent landlord?


----------



## JimW (Jul 23, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> How to be an excellent landlord (Christmas sherry not mandatory) | Penny Anderson
> 
> Handy advice I'm sure we can all agree. Who wouldn't want to be an excellent landlord?


I'm guessing it's not about taking on running a pub.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 23, 2018)

JimW said:


> I'm guessing it's not about taking on running a pub.



The Moderate's Arms

The Quinoa and Tofu

etc...


----------



## JimW (Jul 23, 2018)

The Wring of Hands


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 23, 2018)

The Centrist Dad

The #FBPE

The Simple Pragmatism


----------



## JimW (Jul 23, 2018)

The Duke of York (does a lot of good work for charity actually)


----------



## stavros (Jul 23, 2018)

> We’ve paid off the mortgage but I took out a £800,000 loan against the house to help my two eldest children on to the property ladder. I bought my daughter a one-bedroom flat in Highbury and my son a one-bedroom flat in Battersea. They’re quite modest ex-local authority properties and I’ve signed them over to the children.



How I spend it.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 23, 2018)

What a gleefully massive cunt


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 23, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> What a gleefully massive cunt


Just your ordinay unassuming multi-millionare no different than the rest of us


----------



## Poi E (Jul 24, 2018)

This must be the squeezed middle classes. Before it all went to pot the poor man and his wife wouldn't have had to mortgage their place  just to get the bairns onto the property ladder.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 24, 2018)

stavros said:


> How I spend it.


I don’t understand.  What is the point of that article?  Is it literally just to boast about what he’s got?


----------



## xenon (Jul 24, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I don’t understand.  What is the point of that article?  Is it literally just to boast about what he’s got?


Yes. Another one of those. Showing off, sharing the dilemma and experience with those readers in the same or aspiring to be so, social strata.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 24, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I don’t understand.  What is the point of that article?  Is it literally just to boast about what he’s got?


Fucking awful - why is it even considered journalism? That cunt is just a latter-day Loadsamoney. Smug wanker.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 24, 2018)

It could have been written as ...well you know... an article rather than an audit of how he profited from buying LA housing stock

I hope he loses The fucking lot


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 24, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> It could have been written as ...well you know... an article rather than an audit of how he profited from buying LA housing stock
> 
> I hope he loses The fucking lot


Yeah. He has no redeeming features, going by that article. What an awful human.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 24, 2018)

"We examine real people’s lives and how they really spend it – not the rich and famous, but the extraordinary tales of ordinary working people and what money really means to them"

!!!!


----------



## kabbes (Jul 24, 2018)

Maybe it’s a subtle piece of subversive art


----------



## JimW (Jul 24, 2018)

Yes, that's certainly the first consequence of Peterloo that needs highlighting
Mike Leigh's Peterloo: first trailer for drama about the notorious massacre


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 24, 2018)

JimW said:


> View attachment 142086
> Yes, that's certainly the first consequence of Peterloo that needs highlighting
> Mike Leigh's Peterloo: first trailer for drama about the notorious massacre



Maybe they're trying to make a point about how shit it's become.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 25, 2018)

JimW said:


> View attachment 142086
> Yes, that's certainly the first consequence of Peterloo that needs highlighting
> Mike Leigh's Peterloo: first trailer for drama about the notorious massacre


The protesters were fighting for the right to have a newspaper that lists in laborious detail how a business owner spends his £150,000 per year.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 25, 2018)

JimW said:


> View attachment 142086
> Yes, that's certainly the first consequence of Peterloo that needs highlighting
> Mike Leigh's Peterloo: first trailer for drama about the notorious massacre


Booming Hollywood voice over:

THEY LIVED IN A TIME... OF STRUGGLE.
THEY FOUGHT FOR REPRESENTATION.
BUT IT CAME...

<dur dur dur dur dun dun dundun>

... AT A HORRIBLE COST

<shrill voice> Hello I'm from The Guardian and you should all go back to work. Here's 100 new kale recipes!


----------



## Poi E (Jul 25, 2018)

There'd be an offer of unpaid clerking, at least.


----------



## Sue (Aug 2, 2018)

Martin Kettle implores the English to show more humility and respect towards their neighbours. I specially enjoyed this bit:

'In Kirkcudbright, a nice town in Scotland, it was Scottish night as we arrived, and a bagpipe band straight out of a tourist brochure marched through the town as dusk fell. But the children who paraded with flags before the pipes arrived had Union Jacks as well as saltires, along with all the flags of Europe and beyond. The following evening, hundreds of people on horses “rode the marches” – a form of horseback pub crawl to commemorate the town’s burgh status – but all wearing the countryside riding kit you would see in Wiltshire."'

England must start to listen to its neighbours on these troubled isles | Martin Kettle


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 3, 2018)

that prick, I stopped reading him after his 'did the reformation cause brexit?' article. Phoning it in cunt


----------



## Sue (Aug 3, 2018)

I thought this had to be a piss take but I don't think it is... (And surely Madonna was the original underwear as outerwearer, decades before Rihanna and Beyonce?)

Amphibious dressing: how swimwear became daywear


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 5, 2018)

She w


Sue said:


> I thought this had to be a piss take but I don't think it is... (And surely Madonna was the original underwear as outerwearer, decades before Rihanna and Beyonce?)
> 
> Amphibious dressing: how swimwear became daywear


She was indeed, galliano did her famous pink corset iirc. And it was quite something, no-one else had done it at that time. She was, and still is, an innovator.


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 5, 2018)

and decades before Madonna there was .....


----------



## Mrs D (Aug 9, 2018)

I thought I’d check out their site on my phone to see what they had chosen for their top three most important stories.

This is what I was confronted with:

 

A nagging ad for their app, a support the Guardian banner and a massive popup plead box in bright yellow.

Reminds me of when the local rag devotes the entire front page to advertising. If your headlines aren’t headlines but buried on page 94 I shan’t bother trying to read you again.


----------



## JimW (Aug 9, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> I thought I’d check out their site on my phone to see what they had chosen for their top three most important stories.
> 
> This is what I was confronted with:
> 
> ...


Followed their cricket update as the BBC one was playing up and whether by accident or design three out of four updates were their begging screed.


----------



## Combustible (Aug 9, 2018)

JimW said:


> Followed their cricket update as the BBC one was playing up



Are you using a VPN, it seems like the BBC website is blocked in China at the moment


----------



## JimW (Aug 9, 2018)

Combustible said:


> Are you using a VPN, it seems like the BBC website is blocked in China at the moment


I haven't bothered to date; BBC is mostly blocked again but does work occasionally.


----------



## Combustible (Aug 9, 2018)

My impression is that the latest blocking has lasted longer than most other previous times, but I've not followed it closely. Surprised the Guardian has managed to stay unblocked so long, especially when a lot of American news sites have been blocked for quite a while.


----------



## killer b (Aug 9, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> I thought I’d check out their site on my phone to see what they had chosen for their top three most important stories.
> 
> This is what I was confronted with:
> 
> ...


You may not like it, but (among other things) it's a strategy that has changed their fortunes from haemoraging cash to the point of expected bankruptcy, to being expected to break even this year.

Journalism - Even the guardian's journalism - needs to be paid for, and since everyone moved their advertising over to Facebook and Google because of their superior targeting (90% of advertising spend pretty much disappeared overnight for most news orgs), some form of subscription is the only thing that is going to work. So it's a paywall or begging messages.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 9, 2018)

Sue said:


> Martin Kettle implores the English to show more humility and respect towards their neighbours. I specially enjoyed this bit:
> 
> 'In Kirkcudbright, a nice town in Scotland, it was Scottish night as we arrived, and a bagpipe band straight out of a tourist brochure marched through the town as dusk fell. But the children who paraded with flags before the pipes arrived had Union Jacks as well as saltires, along with all the flags of Europe and beyond. The following evening, hundreds of people on horses “rode the marches” – a form of horseback pub crawl to commemorate the town’s burgh status – but all wearing the countryside riding kit you would see in Wiltshire."'
> 
> England must start to listen to its neighbours on these troubled isles | Martin Kettle



What bilge. In a few paragraphs he explores the diversity of constituent nations but treats England as an amorphous mass.


----------



## JimW (Aug 9, 2018)

Combustible said:


> My impression is that the latest blocking has lasted longer than most other previous times, but I've not followed it closely. Surprised the Guardian has managed to stay unblocked so long, especially when a lot of American news sites have been blocked for quite a while.


Seems to come and go a bit as well but with no VPN hard to say when it's a block and when it's poor service when it's like that.


----------



## stavros (Aug 11, 2018)

How do I get the best from Alexa?


----------



## sealion (Aug 11, 2018)

Ask Alexa!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 16, 2018)

Forget dream dinner party guests – choosing your nightmare companions is much more fun

tim dowling excels himself with yet another helping of dismal vapidity.  He gets _paid_ for this.


----------



## billbond (Aug 16, 2018)

Shit paper  with shit writers
would love to see it go bankrupt


----------



## stavros (Aug 20, 2018)

I know, let's write a column about Farage, Mogg and Johnson, because they've been short of unwarranted attention for the last nanosecond.


----------



## hipipol (Aug 21, 2018)




----------



## brogdale (Aug 25, 2018)

August sub-editing at its finest.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 26, 2018)

Hello brogdale


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 27, 2018)

Impressive: this piece manages to provide two different spellings for a single thing within the same sentence - TWICE.



> “Neither individual is licensed by the BBBBofC and the BBBofC does not participate in such events.”





> Adding to the soap opera, their brothers, Jake and Deji, also fought on the undercard, with Jae emerging victorious.



Stalemate for Logan Paul and KSI in hyped YouTube boxing match


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 27, 2018)

brogdale said:


> August sub-editing at its finest.
> 
> View attachment 145022


What I want to know is where this children's play area got hold of a time machine.


----------



## agricola (Aug 27, 2018)

brogdale said:


> August sub-editing at its finest.
> 
> View attachment 145022



Fifty years ago they'd swing for that.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 27, 2018)

A bit of a roundabout way of doing it, I have to say.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 27, 2018)

circulating on tweeter at the moment - apparently from yesterday's observer


----------



## kabbes (Aug 28, 2018)

What’s the problem there?  The fact that the six week break acts as an accelerator in the gap in the attainment of grades at school between rich and poor is well established and the subject of at least one study I’ve seen.  The rich parents get their kids tuition in the holiday whilst the poor kids forget a proportion of what they’ve learnt, which sets them back at the beginning of the next school year.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 28, 2018)

kabbes said:


> What’s the problem there?  The fact that the six week break acts as an accelerator in the gap in the attainment of grades at school between rich and poor is well established and the subject of at least one study I’ve seen.  The rich parents get their kids tuition in the holiday whilst the poor kids forget a proportion of what they’ve learnt, which sets them back at the beginning of the next school year.



Read it again.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 28, 2018)

Libertad said:


> Read it again.


School was harsh back in the day.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 28, 2018)

Oh — lol.  My bad.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 28, 2018)

Useful guidance.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 28, 2018)

He _earns_ it, you note


----------



## brogdale (Aug 28, 2018)

kabbes said:


> He _earns_ it, you note


Wealth creator.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 28, 2018)

kabbes said:


> What’s the problem there?  The fact that the six week break acts as an accelerator in the gap in the attainment of grades at school between rich and poor is well established and the subject of at least one study I’ve seen.



You know your way around statistics Kabbes, so you should know that without a control group with no summer holidays you have no basis for this claim. And if you've come up with an objective way to measure 'attainment' I'd love to hear about it.

E2a: oh, you're referring to exam results. Same problem though, you're relying on the assumption that exam results are a meaningful indicator of anything.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 28, 2018)

He's an inspiration to us aspirational types. Not kabbes, Dolan.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 28, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> You know your way around statistics Kabbes, so you should know that without a control group with no summer holidays you have no basis for this claim. And if you've come up with an objective way to measure 'attainment' I'd love to hear about it.


I do know my way round statistics, yes.  You don’t need a strict control group of the type you envisage to investigate effects.  And of all places, school is one where attainment is most readily measured.

For example:

Investigation of Summer Learning Loss in the UK—Implications for Holiday Club Provision



> Participants were tested on three occassions: immediately before and immediately after a 7-week summer break, and again after 7-weeks of teaching. The results showed a significant main effect of time for spelling scores, _F_(2,136) = 21.60, _p_ < 0.001, . Post-hoc analysis [_t_(73) = 4.84, _p_ ≤ 0.001] showed that spelling scores were significantly higher at the end of the summer term (M = 26.57) than at the start of the new academic year (M = 25.38). Likewise, spelling scores after 7 weeks post return to school (M = 27.61) were significantly higher than at the start of the Autumn term, _t_(73) = 7.79, _p_ ≤ 0.001. Performance in spelling declined when children returned to school immediately after the summer holiday (M = 25.38) but 7 weeks later, performance had improved beyond the baseline reported immediately before the summer break (M = 26.57) [_t_(73) = 4.40, _p_ ≤ 0.001].



That helpfully references earlier studies too, e.g.



> A conservative estimate of the effect of the USA 12-week long summer vacation on students’ standardized test scores, is that students’ learning at best stagnates, or, worst case scenario, losses of up to 1 month of grade-level equivalent learning occurs (7). Furthermore, the long summer vacation creates a gap of approximately 3 months in achievement between children from high and low socioeconomic status (SES) households (7). This gap has been referred to variously as “summer slide,” “back slide,” or “summer learning loss” (6, 8, 9) and has been studied extensively in the USA and to a lesser extent in Europe (9, 10).


----------



## brogdale (Aug 28, 2018)

Libertad said:


> He's an inspiration to us aspirational types. Not kabbes, Dolan.


lol @ edit


----------



## kabbes (Aug 28, 2018)

I’m an inspiration to anyone who aspires to idle their way through life.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 28, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I’m an inspiration to anyone who aspires to idle their way through life.


You won't make a Guardian puff-piece with an unhelpful attitude like that.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 28, 2018)

brogdale said:


> You won't make a Guardian puff-piece with an unhelpful attitude like that.


Oh, I don’t know.  Have you read their columnists?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 30, 2018)

I won’t cheer if Wonga fails. I was grateful it was there for me | James Ball


----------



## kabbes (Aug 30, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I won’t cheer if Wonga fails. I was grateful it was there for me | James Ball


A sub’s unhelpful headline but the piece as a whole seems not unreasonable.  The final paragraph sums it up:



> Let’s spend less time worrying about Wonga, and more worrying about why people need to use it.


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 31, 2018)

D’ye ken John Peel? – archive, 7 August 1968

“The John Peel cult is easy to understand. He came up the hard way - public school and radio Caroline”


Oh really? Care to name when that Caroline stint was then? Or are you confusing Caroline with Radio London because all pirate radio is one homogenous lump to you know-nothings?


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 31, 2018)

They confused their pirate stations? This will live in infamy.


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 31, 2018)

Idris2002 said:


> They confused their pirate stations? This will live in infamy.



No, they didn’t confuse them. They didn’t have a clue what they were talking about for a good ten years, possibly longer, never fact checked, but that never stopped them repeating bullshit as fact. Probably because people like you don’t give a shit about a subject you know nothing about.

I imagine cupid_stunt might feel differently to you.


----------



## Santino (Aug 31, 2018)

That's a shame. Capital Radio just wouldn't have been the same without John Peel.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 31, 2018)

Sue said:


> I thought this had to be a piss take but I don't think it is... (And surely Madonna was the original underwear as outerwearer, decades before Rihanna and Beyonce?)
> 
> Amphibious dressing: how swimwear became daywear


Poss Ari Up of the Slits did the under outerwear thing?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Forget dream dinner party guests – choosing your nightmare companions is much more fun
> 
> tim dowling excels himself with yet another helping of dismal vapidity.  He gets _paid_ for this.


He's the epitome of the role model Guardian dad.


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 31, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> No, they didn’t confuse them. They didn’t have a clue what they were talking about for a good ten years, possibly longer, never fact checked, but that never stopped them repeating bullshit as fact. Probably because people like you don’t give a shit about a subject you know nothing about.
> 
> I imagine cupid_stunt might feel differently to you.


It's all in the best possible taste.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2018)

Lead item today:

Antisemitism row 'risks chances of Labour government'



> In an interview with the Guardian, *Ivor Caplin, who was defence minister under Tony Blair,* said the row was no longer only affecting the Jewish community, but raising broader questions about the party’s commitment to equality across the country.



Was he? Was he really?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 1, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Lead item today:
> 
> Antisemitism row 'risks chances of Labour government'
> 
> ...


Guardian choosing to omit the words "...a junior..." before "...defence minister...".
Either way, now a defence industry shill.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2018)

Yes a weird totally accidental _mistake_. How on earth did that happen?


----------



## andysays (Sep 1, 2018)

FWIW, Caplin is described by the BBC as 





> a former defence minister who chairs Labour's Jewish affiliate


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2018)

Yes, can you see the difference?


----------



## andysays (Sep 1, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, can you see the difference?


I can see the difference the use of the word 'a' in the BBC article makes. I can also see the similarity in the omission of the word 'junior' from either article.

In other words both the G and the Beeb are using language in a way which (while arguably strictly correct) attempts to exaggerate in the mind of their readers the importance of IC. The G is worse, but the Beeb is doing something similar, IMO.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2018)

Note also, the guardian think being 'defence minister' when we embarked on the iraq debacle is a point in his favour - that's it's something that adds gravitas rather than being something to be ashamed of till your dying day.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 2, 2018)

"...hurtful _battle_ with the Jewish community."



Full on.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2018)

These smug cunts wonder why brexit won as well.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 2, 2018)

Take the whole thing. They're not going to be happy until the 'moderates' are back in charge.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2018)

teqniq said:


> Take the whole thing. They're not going to be happy until the 'moderates' are back in charge.
> 
> View attachment 145844





butchersapron said:


> These smug cunts wonder why brexit won as well.


The editorial says the observer has criticised successive right-wing governments of the zionist entity, like lefty ones are immune from it. That it's anti-semitic to criticise the zionist entity as a jewish collectivity. But I was under the impression the ze had recently passed a law saying, in Netanyahu's words, it is the nation state of the jewish people Jewish nation state: Israel approves controversial bill


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2018)

brogdale said:


> "...hurtful _battle_ with the Jewish community."
> 
> View attachment 145838
> 
> Full on.


I see their news article headline about the Labour Party latest says battle looms. Either battle looms or it has already been joined. You can't have it both ways, unless, it seems, you are the nefandous guardian


----------



## brogdale (Sep 3, 2018)

Almost worthy of it's own thread....answers on a post-card....


----------



## cantsin (Sep 3, 2018)

nice little reminder of just how corrupt and self serving the Graun-Observer / wider liberal-media complex is -  Andrew Rawnsley somehow ommits to mention that the authors' partner  is the absolute epitome of a 'wrong politician' (recently suspended from Lab for sexual harassment,then resigned the whip so he wouldn't have to face charges )
*
Why We Get the Wrong Politicians by Isabel Hardman review – the travails of being an MP*


----------



## brogdale (Sep 5, 2018)

"Dame....one of the City's most...senior executives..."


----------



## flypanam (Sep 5, 2018)

Capitalism must be shitting itself with such proposals as these " Among the report’s 73 recommendations are: a £1 rise in the minimum wage; the replacement of inheritance tax with a £9bn-a-year “lifetime gifts” tax; and greater economic devolution across the UK."

Absolutely bricking it. (((Capitalism)))


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 5, 2018)

brogdale said:


> "Dame....one of the City's most...senior executives..."
> 
> View attachment 146123


can't trust anyone who can't fit into a camera frame properly


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 7, 2018)

> Today in Kettering, the WE launches its annual party conference, the undeniably catchy pitch for which is “Does the current state of politics makes you despair?” The theme is turning a year of marches and protests into action – deeds not words, as the suffragettes had it – and the programme evokes nostalgia for the days when politics was at least occasionally still about things like the failure to convict rapists or fixing a broken social care system, rather than fighting over the right to say offensive things about Jews.



I'd go but obviously I'm not middle class enough and besides I'm working out how to do horst wessel on the comb


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2018)

Lovely neutral objective economic language here:



> Tsipras said the tax cuts will include dramatically reducing a property levy for those worst affected by the crisis in 2019, and lowering sales VAT in 2021. Corporate tax, the bane of business development in the nation long on the frontline of the euro crisis, would be reduced from 29% to 25% by 2022.


----------



## stavros (Sep 10, 2018)

If only for the inaccuracy of this:


> Kane joined the ranks of Cristiano Ronaldo, Gary Lineker and Eusébio by winning the Golden Boot in Russia.



Cristiano Ronaldo has never won the Golden Boot at a World Cup. His Brazilian namesake did in 2002. This ought to be elementary trivia to their Chief Sports Writer.


----------



## petee (Sep 11, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> nefandous


----------



## 19force8 (Sep 14, 2018)

I spat my weetabix reading this:

Making a splash: American town launches Uranus Examiner newspaper

and so appropriate for the thread.


----------



## treelover (Sep 14, 2018)

Sick of waiting at the doctor's? The app will see you now | Hannah Jane Parkinson

Bit sad to read Guardian's Hannah Jane Parkinson, who has bipolar, defending/promoting the disruptive GP at Hand app, run by the odious Ali Parsa, founder of private Circle Healthcare, she says it is much better for her, maybe, but a Guardian article should go deeper, which GP's btl amongst others are providing


----------



## scifisam (Sep 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> Sick of waiting at the doctor's? The app will see you now | Hannah Jane Parkinson
> 
> Bit sad to read Guardian's Hannah Jane Parkinson, who has bipolar, defending/promoting the disruptive GP at Hand app, run by the odious Ali Parsa, founder of private Circle Healthcare, she says it is much better for her, maybe, but a Guardian article should go deeper, which GP's btl amongst others are providing



That really is shit. GP at hand is a private company that only accepts the lowest cost patients, leaving GPs with all the expensive ones, and GPs get paid a flat rate per patient so need some who cost less than that rate to balance out the ones who cost more. It's more fucking backdoor privatisation and the only people I can understand advocating it are the ones who work for them.


----------



## Sue (Sep 14, 2018)

I got a text from my GP recently, warning that if you sign up for this, they're obliged to remove you from their list. I assume that must mean people are signing up for it without realising the implications.

And all scifisam says too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> Sick of waiting at the doctor's? The app will see you now | Hannah Jane Parkinson
> 
> Bit sad to read Guardian's Hannah Jane Parkinson, who has bipolar, defending/promoting the disruptive GP at Hand app, run by the odious Ali Parsa, founder of private Circle Healthcare, she says it is much better for her, maybe, but a Guardian article should go deeper, which GP's btl amongst others are providing


She wrote a very good article about her experiences with the NHS and MH but I have a feeling that her frustrations have influenced the GP At Hand piece. It really glosses over the problems in one sentence about “cherrypicking” and implies that only GPs are objecting to it and for reasons of their own profit. I mean I don’t know anyone more cynical about GPs than me but I’m just as or more cynical about private healthcare firms and Tories ffs.

My local MP, Andy Slaughter, does a lot of stuff about how this is a shitty setup, which is where I first heard of it.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 21, 2018)

Presented without comment.

Help – I think I’m in an abusive relationship with Alexa | Emma Brockes


----------



## campanula (Sep 21, 2018)

'kin'ell.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 21, 2018)

On the bright side it might take over writing her column for her.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 21, 2018)

'Help, I am locked in a house with Emma Brockes' | Alexa


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 24, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> 'Help, I am locked in a house with Emma Brockes' | Alexa


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2018)

horsehoe cunt
On Europe, Labour’s left is revealing its affinity to the ‘alt-right’ | Rafael Behr


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 5, 2018)

old school panning it:







D'ancona thou art avenged


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 5, 2018)

from the twitter
Ben Wiedel-Kaufmann (@benwwk) on Twitter


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2018)

Do they know it's Brexmas time at all?



UK music stars rail against Brexit in open letter to Theresa May


----------



## andysays (Oct 7, 2018)

brogdale said:


> Do they know it's Brexmas time at all?
> 
> View attachment 149023
> 
> UK music stars rail against Brexit in open letter to Theresa May


Interesting that they've described it as *UK* music stars


> An angry open letter to the prime minister drafted by Bob Geldof...


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

> Damon Albarn, Jarvis Cocker, Brian Eno, John Eliot Gardiner, Bobby Gillespie, Howard Goodall, Johnny Marr, Nick Mason, Alan McGee, Rita Ora, William Orbit, Simon Rattle, Ed Sheeran, Paul Simon, Neil Tennant, Roger Taylor and Sting.
> 
> 
> andysays said:
> ...



Paul 'bollocks to the apartheid embargo' simon? did he get a brit  passport or something


----------



## Deej92 (Oct 7, 2018)

I'm no fan of Brexit but each week's Observer seems to have various stars/figures of different sectors warning of Armageddon.

Yes, I think leaving the EU will be bad but we'll live and it won't be as terrible as what some are predicting.

The biased press coverage doesn't help whether its the openly pro-EU Grauniad or the EU hating Daily Mail. The whole debate is so polarised so no wonder your average man on the street is left feeling perplexed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2018)

Yeh it'll be worse than that


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 7, 2018)

I tell you what, with that line up of signatories AND a reformed oasis I really think that the 90s were great for me crowd might swing it this time.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 7, 2018)




----------



## stavros (Oct 7, 2018)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 149083



Note the lack of a comments section.


----------



## Deej92 (Oct 8, 2018)

Clear shift to the left from the Tories with some of those policies mentioned by May in the article.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

Deej92 said:


> Clear shift to the left from the Tories with some of those policies mentioned by May in the article.


has treelover nicked your login?


----------



## kebabking (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> has treelover nicked your login?



It's the same things TM said when she launched her PM campaign - she is by instinct a much more 1950'/60's/70's Tory than a Thatcherite or a crony-capitalist of the Cameron/Osborne mould.

These views have always existed in the Tory party, they have certainly been on the back foot for the last forty years, but then so have Corbyns within Labour...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

kebabking said:


> It's the same things TM said when she launched her PM campaign - she is by instinct a much more 1950'/60's/70's Tory than a Thatcherite or a crony-capitalist of the Cameron/Osborne mould.
> 
> These views have always existed in the Tory party, they have certainly been on the back foot for the last forty years, but then so have Corbyns within Labour...


yeh. but when the policies are only mentioned in the paper and not mentioned in for example manifestos, the queen's speech or the calendar of planned legislation then it's just froth


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2018)

I don't think one nationism has suddenly broken out, its a bit of rhetoric from T.May while red briefcase cunt is going to announce a tax on grandmothers next


----------



## Deej92 (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> has treelover nicked your login?


Don't know who Treelover is.

I don't for one minute think that TM will actually implement these policies. Her record suggests different. It's a bit like when she did her 'burning injustices'/'just about managing' speech, she has done nothing to address that since.

Whether she delivers or not, Corbyn has undoubtedly changed the centre of gravity of British politics to the left and May knows it. End austerity? Money for councils to build houses? A very similar energy cap policy to Miliband, one that no so long ago the Tories denounced as 'Marxist'. Yes, a clear attempt to ape the policies of Labour.

Corbyn is setting the agenda.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

Deej92 said:


> Corbyn has undoubtedly changed the centre of gravity of British politics to the left


not very far to the left

auld jim 'lenin' callaghan was far more radical.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. but when the policies are only mentioned in the paper and not mentioned in for example manifestos, the queen's speech or the calendar of planned legislation then it's just froth



I'm not sure it's just decorative froth, but I certainly think it's interesting, and disappointing that it didn't make it into the manifesto.


----------



## Deej92 (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> not very far to the left
> 
> auld jim 'lenin' callaghan was far more radical.


 
TM is trying to occupy somewhere near the centre ground. She sees a vacant spot with Labour drifting to the left and some of her own party going right and the Lib Dems hopeless as ever. Politics has not been as polarised as this for a long time and the last election indicated a return to the two-party politics of the past with the huge shares of the vote the two main parties achieved.

I'm not convinced May is onto a winner with her centre ground pitch as the public will judge her on her record. Voters largely seem to want a mix of Corbynomics and the identity politics of the right on Brexit. Not sure where the centre ground fits into this.

I'd agree with you that Corbyn isn't that radical. He offers a return to 20th century policies of nationalism and classic left policies of wealth and income distribution. The more radical narrative of the Corbyn era is the growth of mass movement, grassroots politics, namely from Momentum.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

Deej92 said:


> TM is trying to occupy somewhere near the centre ground.


yeh, that's what comes through with her plans for post-brexit immigration


----------



## Deej92 (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh, that's what comes through with her plans for post-brexit immigration


There's nothing centre-ground about her immigration policy. It's very much aping the policies of the Tory Brexit right. However, her economic and social policies indicate a switch to the centre. She's trying to play a balancing act between pitching herself to the identity politics and nationalism of the Tory right to the Corbynomics on the left.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2018)

Deej92 said:


> There's nothing centre-ground about her immigration policy. It's very much aping the policies of the Tory Brexit right. However, her economic and social policies indicate a switch to the centre. She's trying to play a balancing act between pitching herself to the identity politics and nationalism of the Tory right to the Corbynomics on the left.


immigration policy is both a social and an economic policy


----------



## Deej92 (Oct 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> immigration policy is both a social and an economic policy


Didn't say it wasn't.

I should have made it clear and said 'some of her other economic and social policies.'


----------



## brogdale (Oct 15, 2018)

"Exclusive..."


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 17, 2018)

I know it's not about content, but ffs the website loads so many adverts and tracking gizmos that if you have even a moderately slow connection/network, it's like going back to dial-up speeds. If you try to load more than one guardian page at once, god help you.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 17, 2018)

Adblocker and tracker blocker innit


----------



## NoXion (Oct 17, 2018)

Ghostery for the win.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 17, 2018)

teqniq said:


> Adblocker and tracker blocker innit


Can't use at work. I would never be trying to use such a shoddy connection at home in the first place. Really it's monstrous what loads up when you open any guardian page. I was trying to do my usual thing today of opening links in new tabs as I read down a page. Fourth page opening crashed the whole thing. For comparison I can have thirty pages open of u75 and even the computers at work would hardly notice.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 18, 2018)

Brainaddict said:


> Can't use at work. I would never be trying to use such a shoddy connection at home in the first place. Really it's monstrous what loads up when you open any guardian page. I was trying to do my usual thing today of opening links in new tabs as I read down a page. Fourth page opening crashed the whole thing. For comparison I can have thirty pages open of u75 and even the computers at work would hardly notice.



Given that advertising and trackers present an IT security risk, I really think you could make a case for such things to be installed at work.


----------



## rekil (Oct 19, 2018)




----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2018)

I know there's a dedicated thread, but this has to be up there for peak Guardian of the year so far?


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 23, 2018)

Important news from the Guardian about having bath. They are good enough to provide a 'how to' guide for this most tricky aspect of self-care at the end of the article.

Why a daily bath helps beat depression – and how to have a good one


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2018)

Mr Moose said:


> Important news from the Guardian about having bath. They are good enough to provide a 'how to' guide for this most tricky aspect of self-care at the end of the article.
> 
> Why a daily bath helps beat depression – and how to have a good one


If I was able to have an afternoon bath I'd either have lost my job or won the lottery


----------



## petee (Oct 24, 2018)

Mr Moose said:


> Important news from the Guardian about having bath. They are good enough to provide a 'how to' guide for this most tricky aspect of self-care at the end of the article.
> 
> Why a daily bath helps beat depression – and how to have a good one



Sylvia Plath perhaps not the most thoughtful example to adduce ...


----------



## two sheds (Oct 24, 2018)

Shortly to be followed by "Why a daily shit helps beat depression - and how to have a good one"


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 24, 2018)

two sheds said:


> Shortly to be followed by "Why a daily shit helps beat depression - and how to have a good one"



No doubt with an upscale, _many people use toilet paper but some discerning, green-minded people have switched to organically harvested sphagnum moss._


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2018)

Guarantee its all arse hoses at guardian towers


----------



## Libertad (Oct 24, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Guarantee its all arse hoses at guardian towers



Undoubtedly arse hoses.


----------



## andysays (Oct 24, 2018)

two sheds said:


> Shortly to be followed by "Why a daily shit helps beat depression - and how to have a good one"


I prefer my daily shit to be followed by the daily bath rather than the other way round,  but maybe that's just me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2018)

Libertad said:


> Undoubtedly arse hoses.


got the habit for them when doing that two year stint with an indonesian NGO or similar


----------



## Santino (Oct 24, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Guarantee its all arse hoses at guardian towers


Not to be confused with Arsse José, the seminal folk-fusion trombonist.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 24, 2018)

andysays said:


> I prefer my daily shit to be followed by the daily bath rather than the other way round,  but maybe that's just me.



You could save time by multitasking.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 24, 2018)

Santino said:


> Not to be confused with *Arsse José*, the seminal folk-fusion trombonist.



And current manager of Manchester United.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2018)

Mr Moose said:


> And current manager of Manchester United.


auld moany, the best manager united have had for many years


----------



## lucillemara (Oct 25, 2018)

evil fascist rag


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 26, 2018)

Santino said:


> Not to be confused with Arsse José, the seminal folk-fusion trombonist.



Or an ‘arse trombonist’.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 27, 2018)

Tim Dowling: I'm in a pub, having a pint – aren't marches great?

god i hate this cunt and his fandom.


----------



## stavros (Oct 27, 2018)

Once at a Waitrose checkout I looked back to see the next two people had the Guardian like me (Letters, 26 October).


----------



## brogdale (Oct 27, 2018)

stavros said:


> Once at a Waitrose checkout I looked back to see the next two people had the Guardian like me (Letters, 26 October).


Got to admit that today I also 'bought' a copy of the Guardian in Waitrose...but...hear me out before you all block me for being some sort of #FBPE wanker.

So...to get the free coffee we're cardholders...yadda yadda...and we get sent a voucher for £2 off a £10 spend which (obviously) = 20% reduction...so far so (MC) good, yeah?...but...but...if you load on the free coffee (£2.10) & free 'guardian' (£2.90), that's £5 free meaning we got £2 off an effective £5 spend - 40% reduction of the small amount of reduced stuff we actually wanted.

Obviously left the Guardian on the checkout.

Well...that was my day


----------



## stavros (Oct 27, 2018)

It's good to have hobbies.


----------



## GreatGutsby (Nov 4, 2018)

Has anyone else noticed the grauniad's obsession with kale and quinoa?


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Nov 4, 2018)

GreatGutsby said:


> Has anyone else noticed the grauniad's obsession with kale and quinoa?



No....but the grauniad is obsessed with lake and quoniua..


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 4, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> No....but the grauniad is obsessed with lake and quoniua..


Lake and quinoa the Peruvian answer to Randall and hopkirk (deceased)?


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Nov 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Lake and quinoa the Peruvian answer to Randall and hopkirk (deceased)?



 

Indeed ....


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 4, 2018)

I still like the fact that you can do the crossword online. 
Crosswords | Online and free | The Guardian


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 5, 2018)

friedaweed said:


> I still like the fact that you can do the crossword online.
> Crosswords | Online and free | The Guardian



It's almost* the only bit of the guardian worth bothering with any more.

*I confess I occasionally make one of the recipes too.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 9, 2018)

Damon Albarn on Brexit

Er... I'm good, thanks.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 9, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> *I confess I occasionally make one of the recipes too.



Kale - 1 fuckton
Raspberry vinegar - 9 quarts
Quinoa - one large amorphous blob
Hand reared, single origin whale oil - 18 flagons
Suburban despair - as much as you can lay your hands on


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 9, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Kale - 1 fuckton
> Raspberry vinegar - 9 quarts
> Quinoa - one large amorphous blob
> Hand reared, single origin whale oil - 18 flagons
> Suburban despair - as much as you can lay your hands on


It's only teenage wasteland


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Nov 9, 2018)

Sickening. What is the Graun line of approach on mass extinction and looming climate induced genocide? - Oh, that would be an opportunity to talk to Obama’s celebrity chef about cooking crickets for fast food.
Dan Barber: '20 years from now you’ll be eating fast food crickets'


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 9, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Kale - 1 fuckton
> Raspberry vinegar - 9 quarts
> Quinoa - one large amorphous blob
> Hand reared, single origin whale oil - 18 flagons
> Suburban despair - as much as you can lay your hands on



I know, but you can get all that stuff even in the backwaters of the North East these days. Anyway, must be off. This whale ain't gonna squeeze itself.


----------



## Mordi (Nov 9, 2018)

Is there a thread for the occasional worthwhile Guardian article?

Croatian man breaks his leg vandalising anti-fascist monument

“Rade Končar breaks the legs of fascists 76 years after they shot him,” centrist politician Krešo Beljak wrote on Twitter.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 10, 2018)




----------



## butchersapron (Nov 10, 2018)

That's directly above this:


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 10, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Kale - 1 fuckton
> Raspberry vinegar - 9 quarts
> Quinoa - one large amorphous blob
> Hand reared, single origin whale oil - 18 flagons
> Suburban despair - as much as you can lay your hands on





Pickman's model said:


> It's only teenage wasteland



The Good Life.


----------



## belboid (Nov 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> That's directly above this:
> 
> View attachment 152157


Today's version


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 13, 2018)

a bit corbyn hatred and conspiracy minded liberalism all rolled up into rafeal behrs foetid wanksock of an opinion piece

Russian trolls prey on the toxic way we do our politics | Rafael Behr



> Some Labour MPs have called for a Mueller-style inquiryin Britain, but their boss is uninterested. Giving Moscow the benefit of the doubt is basic foreign policy for Jeremy Corbyn and his closest advisers. Could his last general election campaign have been given a comradely boost by Vladimir Putin’s digital battalions? And, with Kremlin apologists in the room, the opposition leader’s office doesn’t have much incentive to demand that spotlights be shone on nefarious Russian influence.



how long before CRI gets a spot in 'comment is fucked?'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 13, 2018)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 13, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> a bit corbyn hatred and conspiracy minded liberalism all rolled up into rafeal behrs foetid wanksock of an opinion piece
> 
> Russian trolls prey on the toxic way we do our politics | Rafael Behr
> 
> ...




hah - came here to post the same shite. 
These fucking wankers - people vote in a way he disapproves of = must be the russians in collusion with Corbyn the evil one.


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 14, 2018)

Why coasting at work is the best thing for your career, health and happiness

Like most people have this choice. What’s a fucking ‘career’ these days?

This comment did make me smirk however:


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 15, 2018)

Esther McVey: working class Tory grafter with tough line on poverty

That's... not how I would have described her.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 15, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Esther McVey: working class Tory grafter with tough line on poverty
> 
> That's... not how I would have described her.



There's nothing more terrifying than a Tory who 'fell on hard times at some point'. Usually the same Thatcherite cunts who reckon they 'pulled themselves up by the bootstraps' so everyone else can too.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 15, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> There's nothing more terrifying than a Tory who 'fell on hard times at some point'. Usually the same Thatcherite cunts who reckon they 'pulled themselves up by the bootstraps' so everyone else can too.



Sasaferrato


----------



## stavros (Nov 18, 2018)

> Their attempt to unseat Mrs May is entirely of a piece. It is nothing more than the politics of petulance, and it is out of touch with a public mood of anxiety about the Brexit process and no small measure of grudging admiration for Mrs May’s doggedness, which has been reflected in editorial shifts at the Daily Mail and the Daily Express



Surely someone at the Guardian editorial desk knows that the Mail has recently changed editors, moving from extreme leaver to a mild Europhile?


----------



## GreatGutsby (Nov 20, 2018)

Can anyone retire in their 30s? Meet the people who say yes

Arseholes

These cunts are on like 90 grand a fucking year yet they put their early retirement down to 'rational' choices like getting free coffee and making their own sandwiches.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 20, 2018)

GreatGutsby said:


> Can anyone retire in their 30s? Meet the people who say yes
> 
> Arseholes
> 
> These cunts are on like 90 grand a fucking year yet they put their early retirement down to 'rational' choices like getting free coffee and making their own sandwiches.



Update to Betteridge's law: Any headline ending in a question mark can be answered with the word 'no', except when it can be answered with the words 'Yes: cunts'.

*starts new 'Come the Revolution...' list*


----------



## GreatGutsby (Nov 20, 2018)

New Labour was far more leftwing than it is given credit for | Glen O’Hara

Need I say anything?


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 20, 2018)

Nice juxtaposition with John Harris's 'Can Labour forge a new 21st-century socialism?' there. Do any of these writers understand any of these words?


----------



## belboid (Nov 20, 2018)

GreatGutsby said:


> Can anyone retire in their 30s? Meet the people who say yes
> 
> Arseholes
> 
> These cunts are on like 90 grand a fucking year yet they put their early retirement down to 'rational' choices like getting free coffee and making their own sandwiches.


Come on - one of us must be 'scotsandrew'

scotsandrew 
14m ago
01
Oh just fuck off. Don't ever publish such patronising shite again. Not getting my money now or ever, am enraged you considered this worthy of publication. (P. S. Fuck off.)


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 20, 2018)

If it's not one of us we should invite him round.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 20, 2018)

belboid said:


> Come on - one of us must be 'scotsandrew'
> 
> scotsandrew
> 14m ago
> ...



Has he only just noticed what the Guardian is?


----------



## Rob Ray (Nov 21, 2018)

Revealed: one in four Europeans vote populist

Populists have been taking advantage of stupid people because of the recession that liberal technocrats definitely had no hand in and take no responsibility for, apparently. Arrogant clueless condescending tossers.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 21, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Revealed: one in four Europeans vote populist
> 
> Populists have been taking advantage of stupid people because of the recession that liberal technocrats definitely had no hand in and take no responsibility for, apparently. Arrogant clueless condescending tossers.



Yeah, never mind the causes - look how simply dreadful the symptoms are....

And then the utterly useless graphic on the 'How populist are you?' quiz page, which presumably is intended to sciencify the idea that if you stray from centre-left/centre-right liberalism in any direction at all, you're BAD


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> Yeah, never mind the causes - look how simply dreadful the symptoms are....
> 
> And then the utterly useless graphic on the 'How populist are you?' quiz page, which presumably is intended to sciencify the idea that if you stray from centre-left/centre-right liberalism in any direction at all, you're BAD


theres a graphic being mocked that shows macron to the left of morales.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2018)

no corbyn here


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2018)

trumps further right than orban somehow


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 21, 2018)

It's a rather pitiful sample with which to test the construction, and missing loads of obvious candidates. Which makes it look very much like they tried and failed to crowbar a load of others in there and had to delete them again.


----------



## Mordi (Nov 21, 2018)

Didn't Macron found a political party that represented nothing but his own initials? How the fuck is he not a populist?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 21, 2018)

It's the new political compass!

How populist are you? if anyone wants to do the test btw.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 21, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> no corbyn here



Pablo Iglesius hasn't done an album for years


----------



## splash (Nov 21, 2018)

I had thought populist only referred to right-wing politicians


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2018)

I get 3.5 points to the left of Bernie Sanders, one row higher. Must have taken them ten whole minutes to think up those questions


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 21, 2018)

splash said:


> I had thought populist only referred to right-wing politicians



Left and right is all the same according to the Guardian.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Left and right is all the same according to the Guardian.


its the horseshoe theory again


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 21, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> its the horseshoe theory again



They're all NOT MODERATE


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 21, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I get 3.5 points to the left of Bernie Sanders, one row higher. Must have taken them ten whole minutes to think up those questions



I think that means I'm 2 rows down from you but 3 points to the left.

This has settled nothing - pistols at dawn?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2018)

Splitter! etc


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 21, 2018)

Shouting at me's not going to help. As I understand it, it's just been scientifically demonstrated that I'm 2 less likely than you to listen to people who are doing that.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 22, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I get 3.5 points to the left of Bernie Sanders, one row higher. Must have taken them ten whole minutes to think up those questions


!0, I think you're giving them too much credit.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 22, 2018)

Organised crime in the UK is bigger than ever before. Can the police catch up?



> Owens prevented a series of protests planned to disrupt the royal wedding in April 2011.


Wow what a hero.


----------



## belboid (Nov 22, 2018)

Except, when you read the article, you see it says that in 12 of those countries, the parties (supposedly) involved actually told Bannon to fuck off, the laws are completely irrelevant.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 22, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's the new political compass!
> 
> How populist are you? if anyone wants to do the test btw.



I'm Bernie Sanders.  Nice to meet you.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 22, 2018)

splash said:


> I had thought populist only referred to right-wing politicians



So widely and inconsistently used as to be meaningless IMO.


----------



## Mordi (Nov 22, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Organised crime in the UK is bigger than ever before. Can the police catch up?
> 
> 
> Wow what a hero.



Ah yes, I remember that. I think the courts eventually decided that despite there being no evidence for any planned disruption (even though they had places under observation for weeks ahead of the raids) that the filth were entirely justified in kicking in doors, mass arresting everyone they could find and seizing electronics and anything else they fancied. No charges on anyone for anything, obviously.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2018)

> • The most widespread conspiracy belief in the UK, shared by 44% of people, was that “even though we live in what’s called a democracy, a few people will always run things in this country anyway”.
> 
> • Mistrust of authority was high in the UK, with 77% of people trusting journalists “not much” or “not at all”; 76% distrusting British government ministers; and 74% distrusting company bosses.



this is in there with the 'leave voters believe in muslim conspiracies' stuff. Populism means i you have a class analysis you basically share space with the fash now according to these freaks
Study shows 60% of Britons believe in conspiracy theories


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 23, 2018)

In case anyone was in any doubt where this was going, why not follow on with Clinton, Blair, Renzi: why we lost, and how to fight back - I mean these are the people who will save "us" from "populists", right?


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 23, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> In case anyone was in any doubt where this was going, why not follow on with Clinton, Blair, Renzi: why we lost, and how to fight back - I mean these are the people who will save "us" from "populists", right?



Jesus wept. On what planet did Blair have any legacy left by 2016 that could have been 'upended by Brexit'?


----------



## tommers (Nov 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> this is in there with the 'leave voters believe in muslim conspiracies' stuff. Populism means i you have a class analysis you basically share space with the fash now according to these freaks
> Study shows 60% of Britons believe in conspiracy theories


Imagine distrusting politicians and bosses. These people have our best interests at heart.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Nov 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> this is in there with the 'leave voters believe in muslim conspiracies' stuff. Populism means i you have a class analysis you basically share space with the fash now according to these freaks
> Study shows 60% of Britons believe in conspiracy theories



Naked attempt at trying to limit what is acceptable discourse, the fuckers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2018)

tommers said:


> Imagine distrusting politicians and bosses. These people have our best interests at heart.




And journos as well. For some reason people don't trust them much, which seems odd given how rigorous and far reaching the consequences o the leveson inquiry were. LOL


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 24, 2018)

billy_bob said:


> Jesus wept. On what planet did Blair have any legacy left by 2016 that could have been 'upended by Brexit'?



His legacy is the massive pfi debt hanging like a millstone around the neck of the NHS etc. Any chance of populism imperilling that?


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 24, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> His legacy is the massive pfi debt hanging like a millstone around the neck of the NHS etc. Any chance of populism imperilling that?



Well, exactly. And the whole war crimes thing: that wasn't too popular. Damn you again, populism!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 27, 2018)

Is a property crash coming? We answer the 20 most pressing personal finance questions

“the rule of thumb is that you should keep between two and three months’ worth of take-home pay as an “instant access” reserve fund.”

OK. I’ll do that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2018)

i think it's time we got a plunger as no matter how many times we flush the guardian stubbornly refuses to go down the drain


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Is a property crash coming? We answer the 20 most pressing personal finance questions
> 
> “the rule of thumb is that you should keep between two and three months’ worth of take-home pay as an “instant access” reserve fund.”
> 
> OK. I’ll do that.


yeh we've all got several thousand pounds tucked away somewhere 

e2a:  at them not you


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 27, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i think it's time we got a plunger as no matter how many times we flush the guardian stubbornly refuses to go down the drain



Typical of the paper's whole ethos, really. It just floats there, stinking the place out while smugly trying to put the blame on you for just not eating enough fibre...


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Nov 30, 2018)

Peak Guardian once again. Arrogant, patronising centrist shit. Apparently anyone who does not agree with the author is a petulant teenager who is going to bring about pogroms.....
Brace yourself, Britain. Brexit is about to teach you what a crisis actually is | David Bennun


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 30, 2018)

More on the subject of property: If a house price crash sounds like good news, you should think again | Gaby Hinsliff

Thesis, such as it is: a house price crash will end up "hurting those who can least afford it" (elderly people selling their houses to pay for care, and first time buyers, and, er, those are all the examples). As opposed to the current situation which clearly hurts nobody at all. Author obviously a property owner, how many is not disclosed.

It's not just the obvious selfishness, it's the laziness in disguising it - _I_ could come up with better reasons why an unregulated house price crash would have negative impacts, and I _want_ to see one.


----------



## Poi E (Nov 30, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Peak Guardian once again. Arrogant, patronising centrist shit. Apparently anyone who does not agree with the author is a petulant teenager who is going to bring about pogroms.....
> Brace yourself, Britain. Brexit is about to teach you what a crisis actually is | David Bennun



What a colonial cunt. Know his type. Adept at lecturing the locals as to what is best for them.


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

Fuck _me_, in first with this absolute jaw dropper.

‘I took a huge salary hit so I can make my daughters my priority’

Synopsis: I work part time on 18k cos we’re fucking loaded and my husband pays all the bills _and_ gives me a grands pocket money a month. This allows me to feel massively culturally superior to everyone else about spending time with my kids.

What fuckin planet?!!!!


----------



## tommers (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> Fuck _me_, in first with this absolute jaw dropper.
> 
> ‘I took a huge salary hit so I can make my daughters my priority’
> 
> ...


Saw it earlier. Didn't read it. Didn't need to.

Your summary makes me glad I didn't.


----------



## Sue (Dec 1, 2018)

I think most of us would be very happy to earn £18K working part-time with no bills and another non-taxable grand a month on top.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> Fuck _me_, in first with this absolute jaw dropper.
> 
> ‘I took a huge salary hit so I can make my daughters my priority’
> 
> ...


Fuck me I want to kill people now.

As an aside does anyone else find the idea of a Husband giving his wife an allowance really shit?


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

Sue said:


> I think most of us would be very happy to earn £18K working part-time with no bills and another non-taxable grand a month on top.


18k for two days work and all. That’s about 40+k FT! Not a bad little job! There’s plenty work 40 hours for 18k!

Honestly the fucking guardian. They go on about austerity and the nhs but they must represent what the top 5-10% of the population in income? It’s a weird kind of dissonance. Champagne socialism I guess.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> Fuck _me_, in first with this absolute jaw dropper.
> 
> ‘I took a huge salary hit so I can make my daughters my priority’
> 
> ...


That is a solid contributor to the "I'm not earning quite as much as I possibly could any more but we have a nice life and it's because I am _so thrifty and virtuous_" genre.

I like the fact that not only does she have an obviously loaded husband, she bought a flat for £50K which would basically be the deposit now, even in Lewisham, but that's all completely glossed over. Ignoring both income and property ladder.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> 18k for two days work and all. That’s about 40+k FT! Not a bad little job! There’s plenty work 40 hours for 18k!
> 
> Honestly the fucking guardian. They go on about austerity and the nhs but they must represent what the top 5-10% of the population in come? It’s a weird kind of dissonance. Champagne socialism I guess.


It's nothing to do with socialism. They're liberal Tories.


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That is a solid contributor to the "I'm not earning quite as much as I possibly could any more but we have a nice life and it's because I am _so thrifty and virtuous_" genre.
> 
> I like the fact that not only does she have an obviously loaded husband, she bought a flat for £50K which would basically be the deposit now, even in Lewisham, but that's all completely glossed over. Ignoring both income and property ladder.


A masterpiece of the genre in many ways.

It’s kind of shocking that a newspaper can publish that in all honesty. Well I find it. It’s like someone boasting about their wealth with literally zero insight into how the vast majority live. A kind of _Lifestyle_ ‘let them eat cake’. 

It’s breathtakingly insensitive and you’ve got to wonder, do they (the guardian) just not _see_ it? Or do they just not _care_? But in either case, why publish all the hand wringing about tent cities and universal credit?

I can’t quite work it out


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 1, 2018)

emanymton said:


> As an aside does anyone else find the idea of a Husband giving his wife an allowance really shit?


It does sound like a line from a Jane Austen novel


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

Santino said:


> It's nothing to do with socialism. They're liberal Tories.


? cos the news section is certainly centrist/leftish wing, but the aspirational lifestyle stuff is... something else.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2018)

emanymton said:


> Fuck me I want to kill people now.
> 
> As an aside does anyone else find the idea of a Husband giving his wife an allowance really shit?


It is a truth universally acknowledged that a husband who gives his wife only an allowance deserves a smack round the chops


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> ? cos the news section is certainly centrist/leftish wing, but the aspirational lifestyle stuff is... something else.


Whenever push comes to shove, The Guardian supports the status quo. Anything that threatens a genuine shift to the left, e.g. Labour's current mild social democracy, is virulently opposed by them.

It's run exclusively by wealthy, privately educated people. As an example of their actual politics, in 2011 one of their leading editorial writers left to become David Cameron's speech writer.


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

I see.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2018)

It helps the establishment for people to think that The Guardian is genuinely left wing (and even that it represents the 'loony left' or the hard left), because then when The Guardian opposes something, they can say 'Look, even The Guardian thinks Corbyn is an anti-Semitic monster!'


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> A masterpiece of the genre in many ways.
> 
> It’s kind of shocking that a newspaper can publish that in all honesty. Well I find it. It’s like someone boasting about their wealth with literally zero insight into how the vast majority live. A kind of _Lifestyle_ ‘let them eat cake’.
> 
> ...


I don't know either. I grew up reading the Guardian - my parents started buying it when the Times was sold to Murdoch, and they were in state jobs like the NHS and teaching where it used to be the standard - and read it when I was in my 20s and I don't remember thinking that it was weirdly out of sync with reality. Now, apart from a few columnists, so much of it feels like it's written by a group of people who not only don't live in the real world but don't bother thinking about what it might be like for anyone else. (Tbh probably a lot of that is that I didn't realise the implications of what they were saying when I was younger.)

My dad used to call us "Thatcher's children" whenever we did something selfish, but (a) he was taking the piss and (b) "Blair's babies" would be a much better insult. There was a smug liberal elitism that developed where certain people could get rich yet ignore their backgrounds when considering their present situation, putting everything down to their hard work and intelligence and so on, but still feel that they were somehow sensitive to social issues, "not like the Tories" but still with the exact same prejudices somehow.

Basically middle-class Gen-X-ers are the worst and they're writing all the articles now.


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

FridgeMagnet its actually frightening.


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

Cos that lack of self awareness, is actually just lack of _awareness_ about what reality is for the vast majority.

And if it’s real, that level of complete unawareness, that bubble that includes the people who make the policies, then there just seems no hope.


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

Yet I don’t believe they _can’t_ know. In which case it’s pretty much an outright attack on other people. It’s saying _fuck you_ and smirking.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> Yet I don’t believe they _can’t_ know. In which case it’s pretty much an outright attack on other people. It’s saying _fuck you_ and smirking.


These are the socially-acceptable versions of the actual attitudes held by politicians, too.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 1, 2018)

Attracts a better class of advertiser, though.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 1, 2018)

Santino said:


> Whenever push comes to shove, The Guardian supports the status quo. Anything that threatens a genuine shift to the left, e.g. Labour's current mild social democracy, is virulently opposed by them.


Or, you know, anti-slavery in the 1860s. Twas ever thus.


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> These are the socially-acceptable versions of the actual attitudes held by politicians, too.


It’s mockery if that’s the case. Because what is stolen from people _is_ the very time to spend with their loved ones. Their children. Mothers and fathers both having to work full time on shit incomes to make ends meet, stressed trying to hold a million things in their heads, and a million worries from their door. Who’d love nothing more than to press pause on the endless spinning stress of it all and make sure their 14yo lad actually is ok, or pick their baby up from after school club before it’s dark, or not have to leave the house before their kids have gone to school and get them breakfast.

Then this is presented like a _choice_? Like a, why on earth doesn’t _everyone_ want to do this it’s fabulous? It’s a mockery.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 1, 2018)

Edie said:


> 18k for two days work and all. That’s about 40+k FT! Not a bad little job! There’s plenty work 40 hours for 18k!



It grates even more because the _Graun_ links into another ‘How I Spend It’ from that page - a student who on top of studying full-time to become an NHS physiotherapist also works full-time hours (38 per week) stacking supermarket shelves on night shift for £12k!



‘I work night shifts until 8am and start university at 9am’


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> It grates even more because the _Graun_ links into another ‘How I Spend It’ from that page - a student who on top of studying full-time to become an NHS physiotherapist also works full-time hours (38 per week) stacking supermarket shelves on night shift for £12k!
> 
> View attachment 154167
> 
> ‘I work night shifts until 8am and start university at 9am’


Yeah that’s the kind of... disconnect I was getting at.


----------



## weepiper (Dec 1, 2018)

> I earn £18,000 a year now and I work an 18-hour week compared with the 60 hours or more before the children, but I have a work-life balance. The most essential thing I can give them now is my time.



 lucky you hen. I earn £14k for working a 33 hour week and I don't get a grand a month pocket money on top either. I guess I just don't love my children as much as you do


----------



## Edie (Dec 1, 2018)

weepiper said:


> lucky you hen. I earn £14k for working a 33 hour week and I don't get a grand a month pocket money on top either. I guess I just don't love my children as much as you do


You are just not _prioritising_ hard enough.


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 3, 2018)

weepiper said:


> lucky you hen. I earn £14k for working a 33 hour week and I don't get a grand a month pocket money on top either. I guess I just don't love my children as much as you do



Another offspring-hater here: 18ish grand for 50+ hours for me (and self-employed so no leave, sick pay etc.). I do get an allowance from my husband, though: as her job's better paid and more stressful, I'm _allowed _to do all the housework.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Dec 3, 2018)

The Wizard of Oz is a grotesque predictor of Trump’s America | Bidisha


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 3, 2018)

Blimey, i wish i went to private school then oxbridge and worked for the BBC and guardian doing pieces with barely 500 words rehashing old tropes about old books/films.


----------



## killer b (Dec 3, 2018)

There's a good review of Rusbridger's new book in the LRB this week from James Meek - defo worth a look: LRB · James Meek · The Club and the Mob: The Shock of the News


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2018)

killer b said:


> There's a good review of Rusbridger's new book in the LRB this week from James Meek - defo worth a look: LRB · James Meek · The Club and the Mob: The Shock of the News


soz - tl;dr - is it a positive review?


----------



## killer b (Dec 3, 2018)

as with a lot of LRB reviews, the book is used as a starting point for a long article about the recent history of the guardian and changes to the media in the last couple of decades rather than being a straight review as such. Meek is not very complimentary to Rusbridger though.


----------



## Combustible (Dec 3, 2018)

A different command': how George HW Bush's war shaped his work for peace


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 3, 2018)

Meek sometimes writes really interesting stuff but I thought this was meandering, and a lot of his dislike of Rusbridger didn't seem to have any immediate cause, there is just a lot of implying he's wrong without really explaining it. I'm sure Rusbridger is a dick, but I don't think he successfully explained how or why. Mostly he seems to think journalism should be paywalled, but that strikes me as a curious hobby horse. Clearly 'legacy media' were bound to react to the internet with differing strategies and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 3, 2018)

killer b said:


> There's a good review of Rusbridger's new book in the LRB this week from James Meek - defo worth a look: LRB · James Meek · The Club and the Mob: The Shock of the News


I know i'll get round to this later in the week but Meek's stuff on brexit has really made me want to dislike everything he will now write.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 3, 2018)

I think he's the only non-private school writer the LRB seems to have.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 3, 2018)

Indeliblelink said:


> The Wizard of Oz is a grotesque predictor of Trump’s America | Bidisha



beat me to it. utter utter guff.


----------



## oryx (Dec 3, 2018)

Browsing the Observer magazine while staying at my brother's place and awaiting the boiler man. The juxtaposition of charity ads and expensive present articles is really annoying me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> beat me to it. utter utter guff.


i await the follow-up: frank baum - prophetic american dystopian author


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 3, 2018)

> More than that, in the face of uncertainty and turmoil, I feel, perhaps irrationally, more powerful when I bite into an apple, crack an egg or roast a parsnip that I planned, worked for and harvested. Sometimes we all need to feel a little powerful, just for a moment, in this very confusing world.



Enjoy,

Take back control – could self-sufficiency be the answer to a no-deal Brexit?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Dec 3, 2018)

sleaterkinney said:


> Enjoy,
> 
> Take back control – could self-sufficiency be the answer to a no-deal Brexit?



The turnip patches on South Georgia will need farmers...


----------



## Poi E (Dec 4, 2018)

Reality show in the making: "Back to British Basics".


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 4, 2018)

Indeliblelink said:


> The Wizard of Oz is a grotesque predictor of Trump’s America | Bidisha



Hrmmm. I think I preferred the _Dark Side of the Moon_ theory


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2018)

eatmorecheese said:


> The turnip patches on South Georgia will need farmers...



You could shit on the turnip patches, after we send you there for shitting in the bath, comrade.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Dec 5, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> You could shit on the turnip patches, after we send you there for shitting in the bath, comrade.


You would condemn me to labour amongst Guardianistas? I do enough of that now


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 6, 2018)

eatmorecheese said:


> You would condemn me to labour amongst Guardianistas? I do enough of that now



You're right, comrade. A neck-shot it is, then.


----------



## Mordi (Dec 6, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> You're right, comrade. A neck-shot it is, then.



Never let it be said that the People's Tribunals are short of kindness.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Dec 6, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> You're right, comrade. A neck-shot it is, then.



Thank you comrade, its the waiting that gets me down


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 6, 2018)

Mordi said:


> Never let it be said that the People's Tribunals are short of kindness.


they're kind enough to allow the former people to expiate their crimes through labour


----------



## treelover (Dec 6, 2018)

Brainaddict said:


> Meek sometimes writes really interesting stuff but I thought this was meandering, and a lot of his dislike of Rusbridger didn't seem to have any immediate cause, there is just a lot of implying he's wrong without really explaining it. I'm sure Rusbridger is a dick, but I don't think he successfully explained how or why. Mostly he seems to think journalism should be paywalled, but that strikes me as a curious hobby horse. Clearly 'legacy media' were bound to react to the internet with differing strategies and I'm not sure that's a bad thing.



LRB · James Meek · Why are you still here?


He did a fantastic piece about Grimsby and its history just before the 2016 election, when UKIP was forecast to win the seat


----------



## treelover (Dec 6, 2018)

On CIF, i have noticed criticism of their position from the left,etc, often get deleted.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 8, 2018)

Our age lacks gravitas. That’s why we cannot deal with crisis | Ian Jack

supreme empty guffage here. imagine getting paid to write this waffle. pompous, vacuous and pointless.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 9, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Our age lacks gravitas.



What's he on about, I had some raw salmon just the other day?


----------



## 19force8 (Dec 9, 2018)

My life in sex: ‘An enormous penis isn’t without complications’

No comment


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2018)

19force8 said:


> My life in sex: ‘An enormous penis isn’t without complications’
> 
> No comment


just glad someone is finally talking honestly about a problem that affects me etc etc


----------



## JimW (Dec 10, 2018)

Guardian columnists uniquely positioned to discuss the problem of being enormous penises.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 16, 2018)

Why are Labour’s leaders so quiet on Europe? Maybe it’s the lure of disaster | Nick Cohen

Utter loony the commies are coming drek.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Our age lacks gravitas. That’s why we cannot deal with crisis | Ian Jack
> 
> supreme empty guffage here. imagine getting paid to write this waffle. pompous, vacuous and pointless.


Imagine paying to read it


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 16, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Imagine paying to read it


----------



## Sprocket. (Dec 16, 2018)

As I asked on another thread what is all this interest in raw salmon!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 16, 2018)

TopCat said:


> Why are Labour’s leaders so quiet on Europe? Maybe it’s the lure of disaster | Nick Cohen
> 
> Utter loony the commies are coming drek.


It wouldn’t be Sunday without a ranting Nick Cohen column ostensibly about something else but actually about bashing Corbyn.


----------



## stavros (Dec 16, 2018)

"Sometimes those mega superhero movies are like giant ocean liners that splosh down the slipway into the harbour, raising the water level and lifting the smaller boats."


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 18, 2018)

Brexit putting thousands of ski resort jobs at risk for British workers


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 21, 2018)

Just popped in to note that the Guardian is still calling the Five Star Movement 'anti-establishment' even though they're now the actual government of Italy.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 23, 2018)

Sue said:


> I think most of us would be very happy to earn £18K working part-time with no bills and another non-taxable grand a month on top.



Yeah. If she's somehow managing to go through her own salary _and_ another grand on top, despite only paying for food, petrol and fun stuff, she's not being quite as thrifty as she thinks. "I spend it all on the girls." Well yeah, so do most parents, it's just that it's usually in the form of keeping a roof over their heads.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 24, 2018)

Cults, human sacrifice and pagan sex: how folk horror is flowering again in Brexit Britain

Leave voters sacrificing their children to Wotan, or something.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 24, 2018)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Cults, human sacrifice and pagan sex: how folk horror is flowering again in Brexit Britain
> 
> Leave voters sacrificing their children to Wotan, or something.


Satanic panic 2019 remix?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 25, 2018)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Cults, human sacrifice and pagan sex: how folk horror is flowering again in Brexit Britain
> 
> Leave voters sacrificing their children to Wotan, or something.



Leavers do not worship Odin/Wotan/Woden. Herne/Cernunnos is the Leave deity of choice, blatantly.


----------



## Libertad (Dec 26, 2018)

ViolentPanda said:


> Leavers do not worship Odin/Wotan/Woden. Herne/Cernunnos is the Leave deity of choice, blatantly.



His green credentials are impeccable which may be the cause of a certain cognitive dissonance amongst some leavers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2018)

\m/


----------



## Ptolemy (Dec 27, 2018)

Defines Brexit as a bad thing due to those who support it (Trump, Putin).

Argues for remaining in the EU based on quotes from _Henry Kissinger_.

The best way to scupper Putin and Trump? Scrap Brexit | Natalie Nougayrède


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 27, 2018)

Nougayrède may be the worst of all Guardian columnists (and there is some stiff competition) - Macron supporter, EU supporter.


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 30, 2018)

I don't have an Audi TT or know what the word is for alienation, woe is me. 

"Quarter-life crisis" do fuck off.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 30, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> I don't have an Audi TT or know what the word is for alienation, woe is me.
> 
> "Quarter-life crisis" do fuck off.


I had a quarter-life crisis which seamlessly morphed into a third-life crisis and then a mid-life crisis. Or perhaps we could just appreciate that lots of people are fucked up and miserable and not do this generational distraction bollocks.


----------



## andysays (Dec 30, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I had a quarter-life crisis which seamlessly morphed into a third-life crisis and then a mid-life crisis. Or perhaps we could just appreciate that lots of people are fucked up and miserable and not do this generational distraction bollocks.


Being generally fucked up and miserable is, of course, far less interesting and Guardian-worthy than having it all then losing or throwing it away in a 'crisis'


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 30, 2018)

andysays said:


> Being generally fucked up and miserable is, of course, far less interesting and Guardian-worthy than having it all then losing or throwing it away in a 'crisis'


Well quite, I mean who would be interested in an actual analysis vs dramatic tales which also reinforce the idea that everyone’s life is brilliant unless there’s some special event, which of course you can overcome and if you don’t you’re not really trying I guess.

Also we do need to have lifestyle pieces with 20-somethings who own stylish houses and have terrific wardrobes (buried in paragraph 8: “parents lent them a hundred grand”).


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 30, 2018)

It takes a very specific sort of mindset to think that "I haven't got a high-powered motor, a Notting Hill home and a glamorous TV career at age 25" amounts to a crisis of any kind. "I'm living in much the same way as every other person my age" is a social anxiety largely solveable by dropping the assumption that you're a character in a Richard Curtis film.


----------



## Sue (Dec 30, 2018)

At least her grandmother who spent her childhood in a labour camp in Siberia had religion to help her through.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 30, 2018)

Note; "analysis"...FFS


----------



## gawkrodger (Jan 6, 2019)

this review

Surveillance Valley by Yasha Levine – review


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 7, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> Nougayrède may be the worst of all Guardian columnists (and there is some stiff competition) - Macron supporter, EU supporter.


She also wrote that Britain handled decolonization better than France, because it didn't have any wars of decolonization.

There are not facepalms enough for such a statement.


----------



## 8115 (Jan 7, 2019)

Super-rich sabbatical: the boom in luxury long breaks for the 1%

Written by their "wealth correspondent". Press your nose at the railings, povs. Look at what you can't have.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 7, 2019)

Sue said:


> At least her grandmother who spent her childhood in a labour camp in Siberia had religion to help her through.


Her gran was obviously not hard enough on her.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 7, 2019)

gawkrodger said:


> this review
> 
> Surveillance Valley by Yasha Levine – review



Levine did an excellent guest stint on Surveillance Valley – Sean's Russia Blog well worth a listen. The review is terrible and reads like the guy is hurt by Levine's (spot on) dismissal of Gladwell


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jan 7, 2019)

Christ

Detained at US immigration, I felt frightened. And very lucky | Emma Brockes

Summary: "US border officials shouted and were beastly to me, thank god I'm white". This story will be retold a wounding amount of times at dinner parties this year.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 7, 2019)

eatmorecheese said:


> Christ
> 
> Detained at US immigration, I felt frightened. And very lucky | Emma Brockes
> 
> Summary: "US border officials shouted and were beastly to me, thank god I'm white". This story will be retold a wounding amount of times at dinner parties this year.


YOU FUCK WITH CHOMSKY, YOU FUCK WITH HOMELAND SECURITY


----------



## kabbes (Jan 8, 2019)

eatmorecheese said:


> Christ
> 
> Detained at US immigration, I felt frightened. And very lucky | Emma Brockes
> 
> Summary: "US border officials shouted and were beastly to me, thank god I'm white". This story will be retold a wounding amount of times at dinner parties this year.


So she got put in a room for half an hour while they sorted out her paperwork fuck up and she wasn’t allowed to use her phone in that time?  And then they shouted at her because she used her phone after they’d already explicitly told her not to use her phone?  I don’t know how she copes with the PTSD.


----------



## belboid (Jan 8, 2019)

Would Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s 70% tax proposal work in UK?

Generally speaking, a typically dull Guardian article, but it dfoes include this moment of genius:




			
				their ECONOMICS correspondent said:
			
		

> However, despite being in the minority, the top 50%


----------



## killer b (Jan 8, 2019)

where to start with this.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> where to start with this.
> 
> View attachment 158070


Not adopted, was he?


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 8, 2019)

'Half-baked: what the Greggs vegan sausage roll says about Brexit Britain'

And the standfirst seems to be going for a new record for 'stupidest example of Betteridge's Law': 'is the launch of a vegan version the latest salvo [in the 'culture wars'] or a chance for a divided country to heal itself?'

Can someone with more time on their hands and an appetite for getting deliberately annoyed read the article, and confirm it's a parody? If not, it's the most Guardian thing ever written.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> where to start with this.
> 
> View attachment 158070


Presumably he was employed by the remain campaign on the basis of his previous good work on the Yes to AV campaign. It's Will Straw CBE btw - he was gonged by Cameron for that great work on remain. Which i think sums it up and why they will lose any second ref as well.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2019)

Caveat; she speaks for herself on her twitter feed...but, that said...FFS


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Caveat; she speaks for herself on her twitter feed...but, that said...FFS
> 
> View attachment 158299


In the actual article, she talks to a leave voter (possibly the same person) who ‘claimed’ to have voted because of sovereignty.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2019)

belboid said:


> In the actual article, she talks to a leave voter (possibly the same person) who ‘claimed’ to have voted because of sovereignty.


Possibly made up people altogether.


----------



## Raheem (Jan 11, 2019)

killer b said:


> where to start with this.
> 
> View attachment 158070


Wish you'd have post an image of the actual article. Presumably it begins with "Shoot me in the head for starters".


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 11, 2019)

Raheem said:


> Wish you'd have post an image of the actual article. Presumably it begins with "Shoot me in the head for starters".


‘No one voted to be worse off’ - Wakefield locals brace for Brexit


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 11, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Caveat; she speaks for herself on her twitter feed...but, that said...FFS
> 
> View attachment 158299


Are they banned in April then?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 11, 2019)

Were they banned in 39?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Presumably he was employed by the remain campaign on the basis of his previous good work on the Yes to AV campaign. It's Will Straw CBE btw - he was gonged by Cameron for that great work on remain. Which i think sums it up and why they will lose any second ref as well.


will of the people


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Presumably he was employed by the remain campaign on the basis of his previous good work on the Yes to AV campaign. It's Will Straw CBE btw - he was gonged by Cameron for that great work on remain. Which i think sums it up and why they will lose any second ref as well.


the best way a remain campaign that was determined to win could start would be to begin without anyone involved in the last shower of shit. and to make people like major and blair campaign on the leave side.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2019)

belboid said:


> Would Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s 70% tax proposal work in UK?
> 
> Generally speaking, a typically dull Guardian article, but it dfoes include this moment of genius:


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Jan 13, 2019)

Shitty hack passes his driving test and thinks we should be interested. Heritage strikes again.

top-gear-here-i-come-passing-my-driving-test-at-38


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 14, 2019)

Brexit T-shirts: artist Jeremy Deller sums up in two words what millions are thinking

these T shirts have been available for a year at least.


----------



## cantsin (Jan 15, 2019)

not-bono-ever said:


> Brexit T-shirts: artist Jeremy Deller sums up in two words what millions are thinking
> 
> these T shirts have been available for a year at least.



and am sure much enjoyed by the mining constituencies he used to build much of his career profile off


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2019)

Example of an idiot in the guardian:



> Corbyn’s no-confidence motion and the prospect of another general election does not appeal to Sinclair. “I think we’d still end up with another Tory government. The English voters are so hellbent on not having Corbyn, because they’ve been sold this idea he’s an out and out red.”



10% swing to labour under corbyn in england - 42% of the total vote

 2% in scotland - 27% of the total vote.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2019)

Interesting in that slice of everyday street life that they manage to unearth a load of business owners and a leading lib-dem.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2019)

How should this Brexit crisis be fixed? Our writers’ verdicts

Every single person on the page oxbridge.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 17, 2019)

I really wanted to share this and we don’t have a Times is Shit thread for obvious reasons, so let’s just say that even the Guardian doesn’t have this


----------



## teqniq (Jan 17, 2019)

Is he so lacking in self-awareness that he thinks this is ok? And how did it get past an editor?


----------



## Yossarian (Jan 18, 2019)

"By tomorrow, enough old Brexiters will have died for Remain to win a second referendum." 

On Saturday the UK turns remain. Parliament must force a second referendum | Polly Toynbee


----------



## brogdale (Jan 18, 2019)

Harsh; don't let yer grandchildren have kids!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 18, 2019)

Yossarian said:


> "By tomorrow, enough old Brexiters will have died for Remain to win a second referendum."
> 
> On Saturday the UK turns remain. Parliament must force a second referendum | Polly Toynbee



What a insufferably pompous twat she is. Even her name is like something Dickens would come up with as a comedic character name for an insufferably pompous twat.


----------



## mauvais (Jan 18, 2019)

Yossarian said:


> "By tomorrow, enough old Brexiters will have died for Remain to win a second referendum."
> 
> On Saturday the UK turns remain. Parliament must force a second referendum | Polly Toynbee


Surely these people must realise the massive hole in their argument?

I mean, _new_ old racist bastards are made all the time...


----------



## sihhi (Jan 21, 2019)

The Guardian to the right of labour and conservative mainstream:

_The 2016 Labour party manifesto proposed the abolition of tuition fees, while there are suggestions that the Augar review will recommend a significant reduction. Both proposals endanger vital widening participation resources and infrastructure. In fact, without compensatory safeguards, universities will have to dismantle programmes and initiatives, and dismiss staff who support students to fulfil their ambitions. The loss will be massive and will hurt a generation of young people and their communities._

Scrapping tuition fees will hurt your communities, so save your communities fight for fees at 10,000£ a year!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 21, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Caveat; she speaks for herself on her twitter feed...but, that said...FFS
> 
> View attachment 158299


I favour India's exit from the Empire.  Should I buy takeaway curry?


----------



## sihhi (Jan 21, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> How should this Brexit crisis be fixed? Our writers’ verdicts
> 
> Every single person on the page oxbridge.



Terrible articles as well. What kind of nonsense is this: 

_The only escape hatch from this horror show is a fresh public vote.

In order to win bulk Labour votes, May could need to commit to a permanent customs union 

Labour should move towards calling for a second referendum to break the Westminster stalemate._
_
My heart is with advocates of resolving this via a people’s vote, but my head is worried. Never again should voters be offered choices that don’t exist in real life, so returning the decision to the people only makes sense once parliament has stress-tested the options_

Their beloved parliament endorsed the referendum.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jan 22, 2019)




----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2019)

Def front page news here - haven't even got the excuse of chasing the yankee dollar on this


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2019)




----------



## Dom Traynor (Jan 22, 2019)

Is that Women’s Equality Party item front page news? I mean I’m interested but I’m a geek...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2019)

It was for about 5 hours reg.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jan 22, 2019)

Ta


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jan 23, 2019)

Lovely. Now fuck off.

Hasan Patel’s place at Eton will help break the vicious circle of privilege | Biba Kang


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 24, 2019)

Don't slate Kate, Duchess of Cambridge for her baby moan – she speaks for all of us | Zoe Williams

I think we can all relate to the hardships of having 24-7 servants catering to you and your heir-to-the-throne child's every whim in that giant grace and favour mansion wing you inhabit, having inherited the lot from a family so rich and powerful it wears an actual imperial crown.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 24, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> Don't slate Kate, Duchess of Cambridge for her baby moan – she speaks for all of us | Zoe Williams
> 
> I think we can all relate to the hardships of having 24-7 servants catering to you and your heir-to-the-throne child's every whim in that giant grace and favour mansion wing you inhabit, having inherited the lot from a family so rich and powerful it wears an actual imperial crown.


Do grace-and-favour people have any security of tenure? Or could they be evicted at will, according to the whim of a jaded monarch?


----------



## cantsin (Jan 25, 2019)

just fuck off

Only empathy can break the cycle of violence in Israel-Palestine | Simon Baron-Cohen


----------



## sihhi (Jan 26, 2019)

I am white. As an academic, consultant and writer on white racial identity and race relations, I speak daily with other white people about the meaning of race in our lives. ...  Black friends have often told me that they prefer open hostility to niceness. They understand open hostility and can protect themselves as needed.

On race relations the other day.


----------



## Sue (Jan 26, 2019)

eatmorecheese said:


> Lovely. Now fuck off.
> 
> Hasan Patel’s place at Eton will help break the vicious circle of privilege | Biba Kang


That's godawful even for the Guardian.


----------



## cantsin (Jan 30, 2019)

New Russell Brand book is obviously ridiculous, based around Brands' admiration for his 15 (or sthn ) closest 'mentors' ( incl.  " fellow recovering addicts, therapists, spiritual guides, a martial arts instructor, a comedian "  -  but doesn't include the nanny who looks after the sprogs who he last week admitted to not going near if he can help it )  - the reviewer knows it's ridiculous ( " But unlike Brand, you may not be able to maintain two therapists, an acupuncturist and a personal relationship with an Indian guru. Also, is Jordan Peterson really “irrefutably persuasive”? ) but still the review sub- leadline is " After several false starts, Brand’s worldview has become surprisingly mature... " and it's book of the day.

Farce. 

Mentors: How to Help and Be Helped by Russell Brand review – a grown-up guru


----------



## brogdale (Feb 2, 2019)

Mouthpiece for the "..._breakaway movement on the political centre."

 _


----------



## ska invita (Feb 2, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Mouthpiece for the "..._breakaway movement on the political centre."
> 
> View attachment 160743 _


its sunday so its the observer being the observer


----------



## rekil (Feb 7, 2019)




----------



## brogdale (Feb 10, 2019)

Look like mature ones to me?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 10, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Look like mature ones to me?
> 
> View attachment 161446


The one quote that doesn’t sound like the Guardian picking junior Progress members:


> Others say simply they are sick of Brexit and politicians. “I just tune out now. I don’t understand why they can’t sort it out,” says Ellie Fairweather. “I have no idea what’s going to happen; I just know it’s going to be bad.”


She seems like the most realistic person in the article.


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Feb 12, 2019)

I give you our old friend, Sam Wollaston and his take on Cressida Dick's inability to smell dope. Christ, we all know how bad he is but this is really shit.


truth-about-cressida-dick-cannabis-problem


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 12, 2019)

.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 12, 2019)

Admiral Fitz said:


> I give you our old friend, Sam Wollaston and his take on Cressida Dick's inability to smell dope. Christ, we all know how bad he is but this is really shit.
> 
> 
> truth-about-cressida-dick-cannabis-problem



Total drivel. Must've taken him all of 15 minutes to crap it out


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Feb 12, 2019)

eatmorecheese said:


> Total drivel. Must've taken him all of 15 minutes to crap it out



I would have taken a normal hack 15 minutes to crank out, but don't forget this is Wollaston. He probably spent most of a day 'crafting' it before submitting.


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Feb 13, 2019)

I know it's shooting fish in a barrel, but the woeful Hadley Freeman makes it too easy to resist.

what-laura-kuenssberg-fuchsia-jacket-tells-us-about-brexit


----------



## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

Admiral Fitz said:


> I give you our old friend, Sam Wollaston and his take on Cressida Dick's inability to smell dope. Christ, we all know how bad he is but this is really shit.
> 
> 
> truth-about-cressida-dick-cannabis-problem



What the fuck was even the point behind this article? I can't believe that someone actually got paid for writing that garbage.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 14, 2019)

Admiral Fitz said:


> I know it's shooting fish in a barrel, but the woeful Hadley Freeman makes it too easy to resist.
> 
> what-laura-kuenssberg-fuchsia-jacket-tells-us-about-brexit



Freemans' (and Hyde's, + J Jones + Crace to a degree )  drift into "politics"  feels v emblematic of the Grauns slide towards it's death throes over the last 5 yrs - super entitled, substance free, bourgie, #FBPE obsessed snarkism that masks what good sh*t Chakraborty, Jones, Younge + co manage to do


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 15, 2019)

Guardian columnist predicts the end of the fucking world after seeing a computer knock out lazy hot takes in a few seconds


----------



## The Pale King (Feb 15, 2019)

cantsin said:


> Freemans' (and Hyde's, + J Jones + Crace to a degree )  drift into "politics"  feels v emblematic of the Grauns slide towards it's death throes over the last 5 yrs - super entitled, substance free, bourgie, #FBPE obsessed snarkism that masks what good sh*t Chakraborty, Jones, Younge + co manage to do



Yeah spot on. There seemed to be a sudden shift away from any notional expertise in an area (quiet at the back etc) to multifunctional, jack-of-all-trades pundits who apply their arch/ironic/exasperated style to any problem that may arise. The 'style' (thinking particularly of your Freemen and Hydes) seems to be a sort of superior, distant sarcasm that makes no moral commitments and crowbars in 80's/90's movies a lot.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 15, 2019)

The Pale King said:


> Yeah spot on. There seemed to be a sudden shift away from any notional expertise in an area (quiet at the back etc) to multifunctional, jack-of-all-trades pundits who apply their arch/ironic/exasperated style to any problem that may arise. The 'style' (thinking particularly of your Freemen and Hydes) seems to be a sort of superior, distant sarcasm that makes no moral commitments and crowbars in 80's/90's movies a lot.



deffo, and whilst the ever worsening financial sitch over there / across the industry must play a part in all this, it's still the gaffa's decision to elevate these sneery, entitled Oxbridge centrists.... must admit, do quietly hope it f8ckin irritates the buggery out of them all every time they see a jonny come lately Blakely / Bastani / Walker / Sarkar / Pierce filling the various 'left slots' on all the politics/ current affairs slots across TV / Cable etc


----------



## The Pale King (Feb 15, 2019)

cantsin said:


> deffo, and whilst the ever worsening financial sitch over there / across the industry must play a part in all this, it's still the gaffa's decision to elevate these sneery, entitled Oxbridge centrists.... must admit, do quietly hope it f8ckin irritates the buggery out of them all every time they see a jonny come lately Blakely / Bastani / Walker / Sarkar / Pierce filling the various 'left slots' on all the politics/ current affairs slots across TV / Cable etc



Couldnae agree more! I think they have a lot of telling (displaced) rage on to the folk you mention.


----------



## oryx (Feb 15, 2019)

cantsin said:


> Freemans' (and Hyde's, + J Jones + Crace to a degree )  drift into "politics"  feels v emblematic of the Grauns slide towards it's death throes over the last 5 yrs - super entitled, substance free, bourgie, #FBPE obsessed snarkism that masks what good sh*t Chakraborty, Jones, Younge + co manage to do



You've pretty much summed up how I feel about the paper.

I think Crace effectively replaced Simon Hoggart as their political sketch writer, didn't he? I miss Hoggart as he was very funny. Can't stand Crace.


----------



## Rob Ray (Feb 15, 2019)

I can see why the Graun likes him in the role though, snotty snarking dressed up in a suit with an air of feigned superiority.


----------



## stavros (Feb 16, 2019)

I buy the Graun each Saturday (so shoot me), and it lasts me a week. This morning's had not only two Jules Verne brochures in it, but a big chunky "fashion" pull-out.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 16, 2019)

Top Guardian serendipity this evening...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 16, 2019)

stavros said:


> I buy the Graun each Saturday (so shoot me), and it lasts me a week



are you pre-empting the brexit bog roll crisis?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 16, 2019)

Oh my...


----------



## NoXion (Feb 17, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Guardian columnist predicts the end of the fucking world after seeing a computer knock out lazy hot takes in a few seconds



I submit that if your copy can be successfully imitated by an algorithm, then that says more about the dire state of your journalistic skills, than it does about the state of the art in machine learning. I've yet to see an AI whip up anything a skilled human writer could do.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 17, 2019)

stavros said:


> I buy the Graun each Saturday (so shoot me), and it lasts me a week. This morning's had not only two Jules Verne brochures in it, but a big chunky "fashion" pull-out.


It's London fashion week, which may explain the fashion section.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2019)

NoXion said:


> I submit that if your copy can be successfully imitated by an algorithm, then that says more about the dire state of your journalistic skills, than it does about the state of the art in machine learning. I've yet to see an AI whip up anything a skilled human writer could do.


also, sales pitch. MY AI thingy is so good I DARE NOT USE IT.


----------



## Poi E (Feb 17, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Oh my...
> 
> View attachment 162090



 Cos there's no way the UK could get into greenhouse growing like the Dutch.

People in the UK are top notch at growing things under lights.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 17, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> I can see why the Graun likes him in the role though, snotty snarking dressed up in a suit with an air of feigned superiority.



With sooooo little substance / edge , just don't  get Crace, at all - at least Hydes' got a bit of something  about her snydey schtick


----------



## cantsin (Feb 17, 2019)

Does it f*ck 

Burberry's new show brings rave culture back to life


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 2, 2019)

Soft Cell - "one hit wonders" apparently.

sneering snide bollocks getting rightly taken down in the comments section -
Soft Cell: Say Hello, Wave Goodbye review – uh oh, tainted doc


----------



## NoXion (Mar 2, 2019)

I'm surprised they still have a comment section. It definitely seems like they're not found below the line as often these days.


----------



## oryx (Mar 2, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Soft Cell - "one hit wonders" apparently.
> 
> sneering snide bollocks getting rightly taken down in the comments section -
> Soft Cell: Say Hello, Wave Goodbye review – uh oh, tainted doc



I clocked that there was something rather puritanical and moralistic in the author's tone and on reading the comments I wasn't alone. This one is a gem:



> Worse than sneer and snide, it's weirdly reactionary as well, seemingly unable to seriously look beyond a mega-hit in Tainted Love it simultaneously derides for the crime of having become too popular to provide brownie points to hipsters of the future when it's their turn to put on a record and therefore dismissive of Non-Stop Erotic Cabaret for the crime of being both pop and not pop enough - one of the best and most important albums of the 1980s. As for the bizarre creation of some sort of in/out of the closet ambiguity about one of the most gloriously, openly deviant, kinky and louche bands ever, let's just say that if for many people the past is indeed a foreign land, as LP Hartley said in The Go-Between, for latter-day Guardian hacks it appears to be some sort of incomprehensible universe where anything more than about 10 minutes ago becomes immediately incomprehensible on any level but those that allow the author to strut about in possession of the present's supposedly superior sensibilities, ethics, cultural understanding, and depth.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 8, 2019)

The Populism pieces are back, with the most recent piece Populist leaders linked to reduced inequality, containing this brilliantly unself-aware statement


> Populist presidents and prime ministers are associated with significant reductions in economic inequality across the world, according to groundbreaking research that will challenge the assumption that populism only has negative consequences.


and


> “This was contrary to what I expected,” said David Doyle, an associate professor at Oxford University, who led the economic analysis. “Maybe I’ve just been biased by years of research that tells us that populism is bad.”



What I had missed (or forgotten) from the first time this stuff came out was this


> The research was conducted by Team Populism, a network of academics who have worked with the Guardian to produce the Global Populism Database, which gives leaders around the world a populism “score” *based on the contents of their speeches*.


(my emphasis). Which really is down the rabbit hole of liberalism, actions are irrelevant it's what people say that matters. The politics of which is evidenced by the wilful blindness to the EU attacks on immigrants.

EDIT: And this even more ludicrous piece doubles down on this nonsense. 
Theresa May’s rhetoric can be as populist as Trump’s


> The research was conducted by Team Populism, an international group of leading populism scholars who were commissioned by the Guardian to “score” the speeches of 138 world leaders. The score was arrived at through textual analysis of at least four speeches per leader, enabling an assessment of their overall use of populist rhetoric.





> The researchers conceded that May’s score may have been swayed by one unusually populist speech.


No shit sherlocks, FFS someone is paying for this "research"


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 8, 2019)

Is that article that breathlessly noted that for some unfathomable reason impossible to understand left wing governments appeared to reduce inequality more than other governments.

What a shocker. Wtf do they teach in PPE courses exactly?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 8, 2019)




----------



## belboid (Mar 8, 2019)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 163936


not _quite _redeemed by it's final sentence

"I realised you couldn’t put a price tag on this level of smugness."


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 8, 2019)

The quick crossword was a bit easy today.
Quick crossword No 15,236


----------



## Poi E (Mar 8, 2019)

belboid said:


> not _quite _redeemed by it's final sentence
> 
> "I realised you couldn’t put a price tag on this level of smugness."



But they did. And it's £2.20.


----------



## belboid (Mar 8, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> The quick crossword was a bit easy today.
> Quick crossword No 15,236


2 down wasn't


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2019)

Some hard hitting shit this.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2019)

All 600 words of it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 19, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Some hard hitting shit this.



Is it worth going on?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Is it worth going on?


God no. It's not even tied to their stupid 'meet posh people who hate brexit like you do/are' dating service. It serves no purpose at all.


----------



## Libertad (Mar 19, 2019)

Sprocket. said:


> Is it worth going on?



I read that as more of an existential enquiry.


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 19, 2019)

It’s bourgeois bollicks, it is!


----------



## Serge Forward (Mar 19, 2019)

You lot have just got no romance, you hard nosed cynical buggers


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2019)

Libertad said:


> I read that as more of an existential enquiry.


i read it as asking whether the guardian offices were worth pissing on


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2019)

Even the dogs look smug....

'‘We built an eco-house for £10,000 and grow our own food'


----------



## Favelado (Mar 23, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Even the dogs look smug....
> 
> '‘We built an eco-house for £10,000 and grow our own food'



Earns about 20k a year but has 500 grand in the bank.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 23, 2019)

Favelado said:


> Earns about 20k a year but has 500 grand in the bank.


Also overlooks the fact that not everyone is physically capable of growing their own food, nor has access to a space in which to grow it.


----------



## killer b (Mar 23, 2019)

Favelado said:


> Earns about 20k a year but has 500 grand in the bank.


Where's that bit?


----------



## Favelado (Mar 23, 2019)

killer b said:


> Where's that bit?



I made up the bank account bit based on prejudice.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Also overlooks the fact that not everyone is physically capable of growing their own food, nor has access to a space in which to grow it.


By her own account they spend an additional £100 per week on food!


----------



## Poi E (Mar 23, 2019)

Wtf


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 23, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> By her own account they spend an additional £100 per week on food!



Jesus, so compared to my food budget they must be growing minus sixty quid's worth of food a week


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 23, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> By her own account they spend an additional £100 per week on food!


Yeah, I did notice the 'we spend £150 a month on eating out' bit. 

The whole article was oozing with smugness.


----------



## killer b (Mar 23, 2019)

There's 4 adults and one teenager in the family, 150 quid doesn't get a party that big too many dinners out - likewise 20 quid a week per person on food additional to what you grow doesn't seem _that_ excessive.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Mar 23, 2019)

kebabs are like 6 quid takeaway. 2 will do for a family of four. if you do that 4 times a month thats £48


----------



## killer b (Mar 23, 2019)

But for actually eating out, for a family of five adults 150 quid is two visits to nando's, or a single visit to somewhere more upmarket.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Mar 23, 2019)

who eats out in 2019 going out is intolerable enough let alone sitting in a restaurant to give yourself the illusion that you're sociable.


----------



## 8115 (Mar 23, 2019)

I thought I’d grieved the death of my sister – until I found this retreat


----------



## 8115 (Mar 23, 2019)

Pretty sure it's a pisstake though.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Mar 23, 2019)

oh lads and lasses i found one the other week

I met my girlfriend’s parents – and realised I had once slept with her father


----------



## oryx (Mar 23, 2019)

dialectician said:


> oh lads and lasses i found one the other week
> 
> I met my girlfriend’s parents – and realised I had once slept with her father



As is becoming usual for The Guardian the comments are better than the article.



> Is this the Jeremy Kyle show now ?





> Makes a change from Kyle's more usual 'Who's the Daddy', doesn't it just?





> Actually, it sounds more like a circa 2010 remake of "The Graduate".



It reminds me of the old 'do they or don't they make them up?' debate about what used to be known as problem pages!


----------



## oryx (Mar 23, 2019)

> Awkward!



Truly, no shit Sherlock!


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2019)

dialectician said:


> kebabs are like 6 quid takeaway. 2 will do for a family of four. if you do that 4 times a month thats £48



I hate to stick up for anyone in that article, but you're not a class traitor if when you eat out you have things other than takeaway kebabs.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Mar 23, 2019)

i mean just say it over dinner that you came in her dads arse its really that simple. ultimately she's gonna be the one who makes the decision, but this must be like those frat society circles in the states


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Mar 23, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I hate to stick up for anyone in that article, but you're not a class traitor if when you eat out you have things other than takeaway kebabs.



nah i mean im all for spending £150 on cigars. it's just why would you want to eat out in 2019?


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2019)

8115 said:


> I thought I’d grieved the death of my sister – until I found this retreat



Holy fucking christ almighty.


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 23, 2019)

Fucking hell, Rajneesh? Don't these people have Netflix?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 24, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> Fucking hell, Rajneesh? Don't these people have Netflix?


No, just oddles of disposable income.


----------



## hot air baboon (Apr 1, 2019)

The Guardian, boasting 7.64m Twitter followers attains the giddy heights of 18 likes, 8 re-tweets & 5 comments for a story published this morning on Brexit. I'm sure I've made comments that have had more engagement than that. Are their followers fed up with Brexit, The Guardian or both ?


----------



## rekil (Apr 5, 2019)

No it won't and nothing can.


----------



## Poi E (Apr 6, 2019)

Helped Johnson's career no end they did


----------



## stavros (Apr 6, 2019)

The whole feature section of this week's Guide is devoted to Game of Thrones.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 7, 2019)

My husband’s boasts are worse since Brexit – and I can’t stand it | Dear Mariella

Someone has a shitty husband and Frostrup uses it as an excuse to give us her reckons about Brexit.


----------



## Poi E (Apr 7, 2019)

Ridiculous article from a person with a ridiculous name.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 12, 2019)

Insert seasonal foodstuff...


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 13, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Insert seasonal foodstuff...
> 
> View attachment 167476


Like anyone needs to be told how to scoff a hot cross bun, the guardian twats.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 13, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Like anyone needs to be told how to scoff a hot cross bun, the guardian twats.


We all scoff at the guardian


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> We all scoff at the guardian


That's true.


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Apr 14, 2019)

They have previous form on this from a few years ago.

how-to-eat-toast


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 14, 2019)

Admiral Fitz said:


> They have previous form on this from a few years ago.
> 
> how-to-eat-toast


I think we scoffed at them then too, the wankers.


----------



## killer b (Apr 14, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Like anyone needs to be told how to scoff a hot cross bun, the guardian twats.


you know that's just the title of the feature don't you? the article isn't really about how to eat a hot cross bun. it's just a piece about hot cross buns.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 15, 2019)

killer b said:


> you know that's just the title of the feature don't you? the article isn't really about how to eat a hot cross bun. it's just a piece about hot cross buns.


Yeah, I know. They're still wankers.


----------



## BristolEcho (Apr 15, 2019)

Apparently the author of the Cybotron gig review gave it five stars. The published article gave it a 3 and the person who changed it didn't even go to the gig.


----------



## killer b (Apr 15, 2019)




----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 18, 2019)

Even by the standards of this thread, this sycophancy must take some beating. 


> The new Change UK party gathers some of the bravest, most independent-minded national parliamentarians in Britain (currently sitting as the Independent Group, aka Tiggers), and will probably field some of the most interesting candidates for the European parliament.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 18, 2019)

redsquirrel said:


> Even by the standards of this thread, this sycophancy must take some beating.


Interesting in the sense I don't like this food but don't want to be rude
Bravest in the sense that's a bold decision, meaning foolish and obstinate 
Most independent minded = ornery


----------



## planetgeli (Apr 21, 2019)

The front page of the Guardian.com is currently advertising a football match that apparently finished

*Everton 0-4 Man Utd
*
Andddd...finally they’ve changed it. After two hours.
*
*


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 21, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> The front page of the Guardian.com is currently advertising a football match that apparently finished
> 
> *Everton 0-4 Man Utd
> *
> Andddd...finally they’ve changed it. After two hours.


Hurra for the guardian's attention to detail


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 21, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> The front page of the Guardian.com is currently advertising a football match that apparently finished
> 
> *Everton 0-4 Man Utd
> *
> Andddd...finally they’ve changed it. After two hours.



Not only that, the actual result was Everton 4 - Man U 0


----------



## nogojones (Apr 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> View attachment 167749
> 
> View attachment 167750


Who's Owen Smith?


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 21, 2019)

nogojones said:


> Who's Owen Smith?


He was the future, once.


----------



## mauvais (Apr 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> View attachment 167749
> 
> View attachment 167750


How have you/The Graun managed to render fonts in such a mid-90s lo-fi style?


----------



## killer b (Apr 21, 2019)

mauvais said:


> How have you/The Graun managed to render fonts in such a mid-90s lo-fi style?


The clipping tool on my work computer I guess?


----------



## Poi E (Apr 22, 2019)

Computer figured wasn't worth the resolution.


----------



## planetgeli (Apr 24, 2019)

Sri Lanka attacker studied in UK, says minister, amid warning more bombers on loose

Story about Sri Lanka bomber being schooled in U.K. Halfway down is a video of Lyra McKee about to be shot in Derry. Maybe the gunman was also schooled in the U.K and that’s the connection. 

(And changed now. “Oh you wanted a terrorist video, you didn’t say which one”)


----------



## rekil (Apr 26, 2019)

Still trying to make talentless reprobate Pete Doherty happen.


----------



## Poi E (Apr 27, 2019)

Blind date: ‘We talked about the sexiest member of the Tory front bench’


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 27, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Blind date: ‘We talked about the sexiest member of the Tory front bench’





> Also, on the walk to the tube he started talking about performing CPR rectally


----------



## Indeliblelink (Apr 27, 2019)

performing CPR rectally 





FridgeMagnet said:


>



Out of medical interest I Googled it and found this -
Tobacco smoke enema - Wikipedia


> A *tobacco smoke enema*, an insufflation of tobacco smoke into the rectum, i.e. as anenema, was employed by the indigenous peoples of North America to stimulate respiration, injecting the smoke with a rectal tube.[1][2][3][4]
> 
> Later, Europeans emulated the Americans.[5] Tobacco resuscitation kits consisting of a pair of bellows and a tube were provided by the Royal Humane Society of London and placed at various points along the Thames.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 27, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Blind date: ‘We talked about the sexiest member of the Tory front bench’


That deserves some respect for managing to be the most tedious thing I’ve ever read.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 27, 2019)

Not the thread for it but yesterday the Indy published a piece about the racism of the centre wrt TIG etc. Spiked it same day.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 27, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Blind date: ‘We talked about the sexiest member of the Tory front bench’





> *Would you introduce him to your friends? *
> I think they’d scare him off.



Why do so many people in the column say this? Has anyone here ever been ‘scared off’ by a date's friends? As opposed to, say, just thinking that they're arseholes, perhaps, or not really having any strong opinions because you don't really know them?


----------



## belboid (Apr 27, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


>


how old must he be?!




			
				wiki said:
			
		

> In August 1767 a few wealthy and civic-minded citizens in Amsterdam gathered to form the Society for Recovery of Drowned Persons.[2] This society was the first organized effort to respond to sudden death.[_citation needed_]
> 
> The society's techniques involved a range of methods to stimulate the body. The members of the society recommended:[3]
> 6. 'stimulating' the victim by such means as rectal and oral fumigation with tobacco smoke; bellows were used to drive tobacco smoke, a known irritant, into the intestine through the anus, as this was thought to be enough of a stimulant to engender a response in the "almost" dead


----------



## Poi E (Apr 27, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Why do so many people in the column say this?



Their friends are horrid tingey wankers.


----------



## Nylock (Apr 28, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Even the dogs look smug....
> 
> '‘We built an eco-house for £10,000 and grow our own food'


Those Lammas project twats make my piss boil. Not necessarily the people in that article but certainly the fuckers 'leading' it...


----------



## Poi E (Apr 28, 2019)

What's the controversy with them?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 28, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Why do so many people in the column say this? Has anyone here ever been ‘scared off’ by a date's friends? As opposed to, say, just thinking that they're arseholes, perhaps, or not really having any strong opinions because you don't really know them?


(There's also a subset of ‘I have shit friends’)

E.g:



> *Would you introduce him to your friends?*
> Most of them. I’m afraid he’d be scared by some of my friends.


Blind date: ‘He had the best brows going’



> *Would you introduce her to your friends?*
> No way – my friends are a nightmare!


Blind date: ‘He probably thinks I’m looking for an Irish passport’



> *Would you introduce her to your friends?*
> God, no – my friends are a nightmare.


Blind date: ‘There was loads of laughter, which is always good, right?’



> *Would you introduce him to your friends?*
> I think he would find them overwhelming.


Blind date: ‘I’d happily sing along to Hey Jude again’



> *Would you introduce him to your friends?*
> Probably not. Tom has never been to Surrey, which wouldn’t go down well.


Blind date: ‘He dropped the C-bomb a couple of times’


----------



## Poi E (Apr 28, 2019)

Sterling work there


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 29, 2019)

I think those responses say a lit about the people that go one a guardian blind date, to be honest.


----------



## Celyn (Apr 29, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I think those responses say a lit about the people that go one a guardian blind date, to be honest.


How does it work? Does the "Guardian" pay for these wonderful "dates"? 

I mean, can anyone apply, and get quite a nice free dinner out of it? It's not as though the person to meet would really be expecting wedding bells, so it would be sort of fun. 

Sort of.

I wonder whether these lovely blind dates have to happen in any particular area. For those of us not in London, for example, would it be all right to apply saying, "Dear "Guardian", I am Celyn and I would very much like to meet a gentleman from Craiglang"?


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 29, 2019)




----------



## crossthebreeze (Apr 29, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> View attachment 169254


Darts plural - better off than Bros were


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> View attachment 169254


I swear they do this on purpose


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Apr 30, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I swear they do this on purpose



I reckon they have a competition in their office when thinking up headlines, to see if they can make it onto the great Urban 'down the pan' thread. It's the only explanation that makes sense.


----------



## Indeliblelink (May 1, 2019)

copliker said:


> Still trying to make talentless reprobate Pete Doherty happen.



Important update here - Pete Doherty cuts finger on hedgehog Pete Doherty hospitalised following hedgehog injury


----------



## rekil (May 1, 2019)

Indeliblelink said:


> Important update here - Pete Doherty cuts finger on hedgehog Pete Doherty hospitalised following hedgehog injury


It's just a reworded press release isn't it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 1, 2019)

copliker said:


> It's just a reworded press release isn't it.


Glad it's that Pete Doherty and not the artist of the same name late of the coach and horses and tally ho


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 1, 2019)

you'd think the CHUK would be a satirists dream - especially their strategy  of bringing about a 2nd ref by keeping the tories in power for as long as possible. But not - it seems - if you are John Crace - who can barely manage a mild ribbing. 

Breaking the mould? Change UK struggles to make an impact | John Crace


----------



## andysays (May 1, 2019)

Indeliblelink said:


> Important update here - Pete Doherty cuts finger on hedgehog Pete Doherty hospitalised following hedgehog injury


I hope the hedgehog is also receiving medical attention, no telling what ill effects it might suffer after contact with that vile individual


----------



## emanymton (May 1, 2019)

copliker said:


> It's just a reworded press release isn't it.


Like the vast majority of modern 'journalism'.

Also I can't help but wonder if this isn't of some relevance to this sudden news story. 



> The Libertines songwriter, who is gearing up to release an album


----------



## eoin_k (May 27, 2019)

EU election results 2019: across Europe
Apparently, Change UK is a 'prominent' example of a party in the European Parliament categorised as 'other' because they have yet to affiliate to a group. Seems like honest balanced journalism, apart from the fact that they haven't, never have had and show no prospect of ever having an MEP elected.




> Others - Others
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2019)

eoin_k said:


> EU election results 2019: across Europe
> Apparently, Change UK is a 'prominent' party in the European Parliament categorised as 'other' because they have yet to affiliate to a group. Seems like honest balanced journalism, apart from the fact that they haven't, never have had and show no prospect of ever having an MEP elected.


They will never have so much as a councillor elected


----------



## eoin_k (May 27, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> They will never have so much as a councillor elected



They might manage a parish councillor, if they can find an uncontested seat somewhere before they implode.


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2019)

In 'Politics Live':


----------



## Mr Moose (May 28, 2019)

brogdale said:


> In 'Politics Live':
> 
> View attachment 172508



Crikey, is there a person with a more sizeable ego than her in the country right now?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 28, 2019)

Mr Moose said:


> Crikey, is there a person with a more sizeable ego than her in the country right now?



Just that Sargon fella from tinterwebs.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 30, 2019)

Forget Boris Johnson. The Tory leader could come from the centre | Martin Kettle

It's ok everyone! Those lovely Tories are going to elect a nice sensible centrist. Phew.


----------



## Poi E (May 30, 2019)

Labour needs a reboot – and it could start with bringing back Ed Miliband | Owen Jones


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 30, 2019)

Gosh


----------



## Rob Ray (May 30, 2019)

I feel like Owen Jones calling for Ed Miliband to be brought in from the cold as a fixer is one of those watershed moments pundits will use in later years to pinpoint when the Labour left started to chew off its own face.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 30, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> I feel like Owen Jones calling for Ed Miliband to be brought in from the cold as a fixer is one of those watershed moments pundits will use in later years to pinpoint when the Labour left started to chew off its own face.


for me the best thing about ed miliband is no one's heard from him in years


----------



## Rob Ray (May 30, 2019)

Hey Ed's running the 23rd most successful politics podcast on iTunes UK and has more than 13,500 followers on Twitter, if that doesn't say "the hero Labour needs right now" I don't know what does.


----------



## billy_bob (May 30, 2019)

Owen Jones appears to have now fully inhabited the character of the professor Kent Brockman is interviewing in this clip:


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 30, 2019)

Eds great since he stepped down as leader, he keeps trolling the shit out of the conservatives and Cameron.

Owen Jones remains shit.


----------



## Rob Ray (May 30, 2019)

Fuck me who's on the Guardian picks today?


----------



## mauvais (Jun 5, 2019)

The Guardian reviews protests now, as 'art'. Three stars.

The Trump Baby Blimp review – triumph of protest art or big bag of wind?


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 8, 2019)

'I think they were very lucky': Peterborough locals react to Labour win

Guardian not being bitter at all towards Labour. 

I’ll paraphrase for you.

They only scraped through. In a contest where it’s about who gets the most votes wins.

Bloke went down the bookies (and obviously lost backing odds on favourite BP)

They were lucky.

Some bloke who used to work for Onasanya so is obviously tainted.

Repeated trope about relying on Muslims, though Guardian make sure they quote a Muslim because they’re not racist, oh no not us.

Some people voted Tory but if they hadn’t and had voted BP instead, Labour would have lost.

Good grief Charlie Brown.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 8, 2019)

Less than 700 votes is really close tbf.

Imo it's telling that labour vote (as per this by election, as per polling aside from a few of more recent ones) appears to be holding up while Tory vote tanking but 683 votes from a constituency of 95k is narrow whichever way you cut it.

Obviously the guardian are libdem pret cacao wankers but it's no less dishonest a take than some of the 'we beat them on the streets we beat them on the beaches' stuff either


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Less than 700 votes is really close tbf.
> 
> Imo it's telling that labour vote (as per this by election, as per polling aside from a few of more recent ones) appears to be holding up while Tory vote tanking but 683 votes from a constituency of 95k is narrow whichever way you cut it.
> 
> Obviously the guardian are libdem pret cacao wankers but it's no less dishonest a take than some of the 'we beat them on the streets we beat them on the beaches' stuff either



‘Scraped’ and ‘lucky’ is deliberately ignoring any context. The Tories held this seat until 2017, the Brexit Party were supposedly rampant, the last (Labour) incumbent was jailed. To ignore this for what they’ve printed is entirely disingenuous.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 8, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> ‘Scraped’ and ‘lucky’ is deliberately ignoring any context. The Tories held this seat until 2017, the Brexit Party were supposedly rampant, the last (Labour) incumbent was jailed. To ignore this for what they’ve printed is entirely disingenuous.


Yeah fair


----------



## stavros (Jun 8, 2019)

The magazine had a wrap-around for Uber today.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 14, 2019)

Experience: I killed my classmate with a javelin on sports day


----------



## Poi E (Jun 16, 2019)

Yeah, that was to the point.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 16, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Experience: I killed my classmate with a javelin on sports day



_In my early 30s, I went travelling for a year and a half. On a beach in India, someone gave me reiki and I had what I would call a spiritual awakening. I retrained as a life coach, focusing on being positive.
_
:vomit:


----------



## emanymton (Jun 16, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> _In my early 30s, I went travelling for a year and a half. On a beach in India, someone gave me reiki and I had what I would call a spiritual awakening. I retrained as a life coach, focusing on being positive.
> _
> :vomit:


I'm really sorry about the girl I killed but I'll give her death meaning by using it to flog my shit book.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 16, 2019)

stavros said:


> The magazine had a wrap-around for Uber today.


Genuinely read that as reach-around. Probably not inaccurate tbf


----------



## scifisam (Jun 16, 2019)

emanymton said:


> I'm really sorry about the girl I killed but I'll give her death meaning by using it to flog my shit book.



Yeah, that really is pretty shit. She could have told the story without including the ad. 

Also, she had a loving mum that she lived with and she got given a council flat in sixth form? Um, no, that doesn't happen. Teenagers who've never been in care and aren't estranged from their parents would be lucky to get a hostel, let alone a flat, even in the 80s. I'm sceptical about the whole thing.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 16, 2019)

The javelin bit is defo true (3rd one down)

North West Film Archive | BBC News Archive


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2019)

scifisam said:


> Yeah, that really is pretty shit. She could have told the story without including the ad.
> 
> Also, she had a loving mum that she lived with and she got given a council flat in sixth form? Um, no, that doesn't happen. Teenagers who've never been in care and aren't estranged from their parents would be lucky to get a hostel, let alone a flat, even in the 80s. I'm sceptical about the whole thing.


I became sceptical when the javelin suddenly swung to the right with no reported gust of wind


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 16, 2019)

Probably a reflection of the diminishing support for Labour in general


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 16, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Probably a reflection of the diminishing support for Labour in general


It's a libdem paper you bell


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 16, 2019)

stavros said:


> The magazine had a wrap-around for Uber today.


Grauniad Uber alles


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 16, 2019)

The Grauniad's vision of our future prospects under late-capitalism - being an uber driver or a "life-coach"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 16, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Experience: I killed my classmate with a javelin on sports day



My sports day achievement was nowhere near as grim. I broke several bones in my PE teacher's foot when putting a shot. Laugh? I nearly died of asphyxiation, I guffawed so much!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2019)

i see the guardian's standard of spelling and grammar is high as ever


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Jun 17, 2019)

Guardian hack thinks they shouldn't make a second series of 'Russian Doll', because it might be difficult for them. Clearly the creative talent behind the programme should heed his advice and not try anything at all. "Loved your first novel Mr. Dickens, no need for any more it might be  too hard for you."

russian-doll-second-season-netflix


----------



## 8ball (Jun 17, 2019)

mauvais said:


> The Guardian reviews protests now, as 'art'. Three stars.
> 
> The Trump Baby Blimp review – triumph of protest art or big bag of wind?



I don't see anything wrong with that.  Comes neatly enough under the category of "protest art" - hardly a new thing.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 17, 2019)

8ball said:


> I don't see anything wrong with that.  Comes neatly enough under the category of "protest art" - hardly a new thing.


And the rating?







3/5 - "certainly a moving work (ha ha) but suffers from low-budget production and ultimately offers no closure"


----------



## 8ball (Jun 17, 2019)

mauvais said:


> And the rating?



What 3/5 for the Trump blimp?
I'd probably have given it 3 and a half.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 17, 2019)

Theresa May could yet give us the ultimate parting gift: a Brexit referendum | Polly Toynbee

Theresa May might call a second referendum before she leaves. Says a non-desperately-flailing Toynbee.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 17, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Theresa May could yet give us the ultimate parting gift: a Brexit referendum | Polly Toynbee
> 
> Theresa May might call a second referendum before she leaves. Says a non-desperately-flailing Toynbee.


Jesus even for Toynbee this is batshit insane cobblers.


----------



## steeplejack (Jun 18, 2019)

Still remember Toynbee’s ‘exclusive’ undercover working as a minimum wage cleaner in parliament around the turn of the century. She was hurt most by being blanked by Peter Mandelson whilst working in disguise.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 18, 2019)

If she were not Polly Toynbee, failing the "eleven plus" might have meant her doing minimum wage cleaning as her real job. The horror!


----------



## kabbes (Jun 18, 2019)

It’s amazing how somebody so often manifestly wrong can keep on having a job giving us her reckons


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 18, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Theresa May could yet give us the ultimate parting gift: a Brexit referendum | Polly Toynbee
> 
> Theresa May might call a second referendum before she leaves. Says a non-desperately-flailing Toynbee.


That's worse than posting while pissed, that's obvs something written while maudlin at 3 in the morning


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 18, 2019)

The thing with Toynbee is that unlike most of these dickheads she actually sincerely believes the bollocks she comes out with


----------



## Benjy1992 (Jun 24, 2019)

Wow. A whole thread dedicated to slating the Grauniad 

I don't mind Toynbee and then there's Jones, Freedland, Cohen and Rawnsley


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 24, 2019)

.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 24, 2019)

I think the re-rise of the labour left fully broke Nick Cohens mind. He can't write anything that doesn't contain some sort of corbyn diss, stasi reff or what have you.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jun 24, 2019)

The sad thing is, now that the Guardian is no longer a co-op, we don't have a mainstream left leaning paper (with the exception of the Mirror on occasion).


I wonder if more people will start reading the Morning Star, or if printed newspapers are dead anyway.


----------



## belboid (Jun 24, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> The sad thing is, now that the Guardian is no longer a co-op, we don't have a mainstream left leaning paper (with the exception of the Mirror on occasion).


The guardian was never a coop


----------



## Funky_monks (Jun 24, 2019)

belboid said:


> The guardian was never a coop


I've been lied to then, I was sure it didn't used to be corporate owned, but wiki says I'm wrong....


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 24, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Theresa May might call a second referendum before she leaves.





my respect for TM would increase (not a lot, as paul daniels used to say) if she did this for the lols just before she was dragged out of number 10



Funky_monks said:


> I've been lied to then, I was sure it didn't used to be corporate owned, but wiki says I'm wrong....



it's owned by the scott trust, which is not exactly a corporate.  it's a limited company but that doesn't necessarily quite make it a 'corporate' - quite a few charities (not that scott trust is necessarily a charity) are set up as limited companies (not a plc so you can't buy shares on the stock market) as is (employee owned) Waitrose Ltd.


----------



## treelover (Jun 24, 2019)

> Medicalising everyday life doesn’t help anyone’s mental health | Adrian Massey
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sick-Note-Britain-Social-Problems-Medical/dp/1787381226
> ...



Guardian just commissoned an article by Anthony Massey, about the medicalisation of many everyday life stressors, all ok, then you find out he is the author of Sicknote Britain, which the right is planning to use for more welfare restructuring, and a key architect of Blunkett's welfare reforms and especially the Fit Note.

update, he is against the WCA, but did help create the fit note.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 25, 2019)

The Guardian view on female voice assistants: not OK, Google

The Guardian view on female voice assistants: not OK, Google | Editorial


----------



## kabbes (Jun 26, 2019)

Is it ethical for a woman to date a man for a free dinner? Only if they’re very upfront | Arwa Mahdawi

It literally says nothing that can’t be summarised in that heading.  No discussion, no context, no history, no analysis.  Just a few hundred words saying that thing.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 26, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> I've been lied to then, I was sure it didn't used to be corporate owned, but wiki says I'm wrong....



The Guardian's politics haven't fundamentally changed since it's launch: socially liberal, but never editorally leftwing enough to offend its Manchester mill owner founder. So, it condemned the Peterloo massacre,  but opposed the Chartists too. It was set up to fill the gap in the market created when a radical Manchester paper that supported Chartism was banned.

The second or third owner then bequeathed it to a trust, in an attempt to influence its editorial line after his death. That's all.


----------



## xenon (Jun 26, 2019)

D'wards said:


> The Guardian view on female voice assistants: not OK, Google
> 
> The Guardian view on female voice assistants: not OK, Google | Editorial



What's wrong with that? Only skimmed through it but I thought it was quite interesting. It makes the obvious point that new tech often inevitably incorporates existing prejudices and cultural bias. Which in a general article is worth saying.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 27, 2019)

I took drugs recently and colours danced on the insides of my eyelids | Adrian Chiles

Adrian Chiles had a toke, pulled a whitey and .... oh thats it. Well Adrian, thanks for your insight into this hot topic.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 27, 2019)

Funky_monks said:


> The sad thing is, now that the Guardian is no longer a co-op, we don't have a mainstream left leaning paper (with the exception of the Mirror on occasion).
> 
> 
> I wonder if more people will start reading the Morning Star, or if printed newspapers are dead anyway.


“Morning Star” ? 
I hope not. There is already more than enough nationalism, nostalgia, gullible fawning over dictators and demogogues, war crimes apologism and half-assed class reductionism in UK politics already......


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 27, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> I took drugs recently and colours danced on the insides of my eyelids | Adrian Chiles
> 
> Adrian Chiles had a toke, pulled a whitey and .... oh thats it. Well Adrian, thanks for your insight into this hot topic.



I was going to post that. Not so much an article as...a sentence. And it was clickable on the front page of the website.


----------



## Cid (Jun 27, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> I took drugs recently and colours danced on the insides of my eyelids | Adrian Chiles
> 
> Adrian Chiles had a toke, pulled a whitey and .... oh thats it. Well Adrian, thanks for your insight into this hot topic.



I wonder how much he was paid for that...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 27, 2019)

Cid said:


> I wonder how much he was paid for that...



Id like to think it was some king size rizlas, a  mars milk and a packet of pringles from the all night garage at 2am.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 28, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Id like to think it was some king size rizlas, a  mars milk and a packet of pringles from the all night garage at 2am.



Cornetto.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 30, 2019)

Prince William apparently 3rd in line to throne

 
Crown estate faces tenants' anger over rent hikes, evictions and repair delays


----------



## Irwin Winton (Jul 3, 2019)

Normally somewhat decent sports writer seemingly writes this with zero consideration for how it reads. Women's WC btw.

England crash out after shift in tactics and failure to fix defensive flaws | Jonathan Wilson


----------



## belboid (Jul 3, 2019)

Irwin Winton said:


> Normally somewhat decent sports writer seemingly writes this with zero consideration for how it reads. Women's WC btw.
> 
> England crash out after shift in tactics and failure to fix defensive flaws | Jonathan Wilson


I dunno. If it had been the men's match, that would have been an entirely fair report. Sure, it misses out all the 'ooh, didn't they do well' - but that's a good thing if the women's game is to be treated the same as the men's, no?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 3, 2019)

belboid said:


> I dunno. If it had been the men's match, that would have been an entirely fair report. Sure, it misses out all the 'ooh, didn't they do well' - but that's a good thing if the women's game is to be treated the same as the men's, no?



Agreed. Jonathan Wilson writes largely about tactics. That's his niche rather than general match reports which are there too and written by others - I can't see any issues with this tbh.


----------



## magneze (Jul 3, 2019)

Irwin Winton said:


> Normally somewhat decent sports writer seemingly writes this with zero consideration for how it reads. Women's WC btw.
> 
> England crash out after shift in tactics and failure to fix defensive flaws | Jonathan Wilson


How does it read?


----------



## Irwin Winton (Jul 3, 2019)

Read it


----------



## Irwin Winton (Jul 3, 2019)

There's a proposition missing in the first paragraph and the second para is turgid.


----------



## andysays (Jul 3, 2019)

Irwin Winton said:


> There's a proposition missing in the first paragraph and the second para is turgid.


Not sure you've quite got the idea of this thread, TBH


----------



## Irwin Winton (Jul 3, 2019)

It's been re-edited 

On first reading it read as though he was winging it


----------



## magneze (Jul 3, 2019)

Irwin Winton said:


> Read it


I have.


----------



## magneze (Jul 3, 2019)

Irwin Winton said:


> There's a proposition missing in the first paragraph and the second para is turgid.


Shocking.


----------



## kebabking (Jul 3, 2019)

Can Glastonbury help me shed my toxic masculinity – and become a better man? 

Fantastic.


----------



## Irwin Winton (Jul 3, 2019)

magneze said:


> Shocking.



Not quite sure you've got the idea of this thread,  tbf


----------



## Poi E (Jul 3, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Can Glastonbury help me shed my toxic masculinity – and become a better man?
> 
> Fantastic.



I'm all up for shedding some toxic masculinity with DMT but burning sage? Fuck that shit.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 3, 2019)

Irwin Winton said:


> There's a proposition missing in the first paragraph and the second para is turgid.


Preposition?


----------



## magneze (Jul 3, 2019)

Irwin Winton said:


> Not quite sure you've got the idea of this thread,  tbf


I see what you did there. Good one.


----------



## andysays (Jul 3, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Preposition?


It is a Grauniad thread


----------



## kebabking (Jul 3, 2019)

Poi E said:


> I'm all up for shedding some toxic masculinity with DMT but burning sage? Fuck that shit.



Can imagine the sheer pomposity and virtue signalling that would have inflated that tent?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 3, 2019)

Consumerism isn't a sellout - if capitalism works for all

Actually even worse than the title suggests - pretty amazing from beginning to end. The constant conflation of "consumerism" with "buying stuff" is good but predictable; I particularly liked the idea that problems are basically our fault for not being good enough consumers, though. That's a new one to me.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 3, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Consumerism isn't a sellout - if capitalism works for all
> 
> Actually even worse than the title suggests - pretty amazing from beginning to end. The constant conflation of "consumerism" with "buying stuff" is good but predictable; I particularly liked the idea that problems are basically our fault for not being good enough consumers, though. That's a new one to me.


This is a terrible piece and also isn't the author the shoe bomber


----------



## elbows (Jul 3, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> This is a terrible piece and also isn't the author the shoe bomber



Much worse than that.



> Until 2012 Reeves was Director of Strategy to Deputy Prime Minister` Nick Clegg.[2] Previously he had been director of the London-based think tank Demos. Reeves has held positions including Director of Futures at The Work Foundation, a British non-profit organisation, Society Editor of _The Observer_, Economics Correspondent and Washington Correspondent of _The Guardian_, and policy adviser to Frank Field when he was Minister for Welfare Reform.



Richard Reeves (British author) - Wikipedia


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 3, 2019)

elbows said:


> Much worse than that.
> 
> 
> 
> Richard Reeves (British author) - Wikipedia


Would happily Guantanamo him


----------



## 8ball (Jul 3, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Consumerism isn't a sellout - if capitalism works for all
> 
> Actually even worse than the title suggests - pretty amazing from beginning to end. The constant conflation of "consumerism" with "buying stuff" is good but predictable; I particularly liked the idea that problems are basically our fault for not being good enough consumers, though. That's a new one to me.



Not sure I agree with you there.
I think it's pretty much *exactly* as bad as the title suggests, and appreciate the titular honesty shown by the Graun on this occasion.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 3, 2019)

elbows said:


> Richard Reeves (British author) - Wikipedia



That pic...
There's a severed head in his fridge.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 3, 2019)

That’s awful and shows the author’s total lack of understanding of (a) what consumerism is and (b) why it is problematic.  He even tries to discuss the objections and yet somehow misses all the actual proper objections


----------



## Rob Ray (Jul 7, 2019)

Africans breeding too fast is why we can't have nice things, Observer "science" and environment editor Robin McKee opines in amongst a bunch of platitudes to make it clear he definitely isn't being racist and _obviously_ there's other reasons too. But y'know, Africans:

Global population of eight billion and growing: we can’t go on like this


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Is it ethical for a woman to date a man for a free dinner? Only if they’re very upfront | Arwa Mahdawi
> 
> It literally says nothing that can’t be summarised in that heading.  No discussion, no context, no history, no analysis.  Just a few hundred words saying that thing.


I know we're heading into silly season but that's a load of shite even by their standards.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jul 8, 2019)

Obviously d'Ancona regularly curls out a turd in the pages of the guardian, but this impassioned plea for a return to the 'centrism' that fucked us into horrendous inequality has everything you could possibly want:

Labour could dominate the centre ground and win. But it doesn’t seem to want to | Matthew d’Ancona



> “Centrist” is now second only to “fascist” in the left’s lexicon of hate.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2019)

liberal fantasy cabinet stuff again from the guardians pet tory



> how easy it would be to construct a pretty decent cabinet from Labour’s backbenches: Jess Phillips, Seema Malhotra, Owen Smith, Stephen Kinnock, Gloria De Piero, Angela Eagle and David Lammy for a start. Then add in a handful of existing frontbenchers – Tom Watson, Keir Starmer



OWEN SMITH EVERYBODY.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jul 8, 2019)

It's so good. He namechecks Tony Blair. He assumes all voters are like his friends. He dreams of Owen Smith. I clicked on it expecting to be annoyed but in fact I just laughed.


----------



## xenon (Jul 8, 2019)

Owen what's a cappuccino Smith is still a thing for some peple? LOL.


----------



## xenon (Jul 8, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Can Glastonbury help me shed my toxic masculinity – and become a better man?
> 
> Fantastic.




"As the panel moves on to talking about the dangers of preaching only to the converted, two young men stagger in and ask: “What’s this?”

“Positive masculinity workshop,” I say and pat the vacant space on the sofa beside me. “Shite,” says one of them and they head back"


----------



## xenon (Jul 8, 2019)

Oh and 

"When I get back to my tent later, it is dark and there is a woman face down on the grass outside. “Just leave me,” she says, “I’ll be fine.” “You’re fine now,” I say, “but you’ll be cold in a while. Let me take you back to your tent.” Eventually, she gets up and I help her find her way through the night. 
Isn't she thinking won't this creep just fuck off.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 8, 2019)

Brainaddict said:


> Obviously d'Ancona regularly curls out a turd in the pages of the guardian, but this impassioned plea for a return to the 'centrism' that fucked us into horrendous inequality has everything you could possibly want:
> 
> Labour could dominate the centre ground and win. But it doesn’t seem to want to | Matthew d’Ancona





> I now think that Corbyn’s undoing was his undoubted success in the 2017 general election


Lolllol


----------



## TopCat (Jul 8, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Lolllol


It was a new low.


----------



## Ming (Jul 8, 2019)

Brainaddict said:


> Obviously d'Ancona regularly curls out a turd in the pages of the guardian, but this impassioned plea for a return to the 'centrism' that fucked us into horrendous inequality has everything you could possibly want:
> 
> Labour could dominate the centre ground and win. But it doesn’t seem to want to | Matthew d’Ancona


I don’t know what the former editor of The Spectator is doing writing for The Guardian anyway.


----------



## flypanam (Jul 8, 2019)

Ming said:


> I don’t know what the former editor of The Spectator is doing writing for The Guardian anyway.



The trust doing it's usual thing of pretending to represent all views no matter what. It's like them saying, 'look how radically moderate we are, we have all sorts writing for us, we are the centre' never mind that the only voice they magnify is that of the right of centre in the first place.

AND

Because he's shit, he's cheap too.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 8, 2019)

How to wash your hair

But how do I use the knobs on the sink to get water?


----------



## Sue (Jul 9, 2019)

flypanam said:


> Because he's shit, he's cheap too.


Going by that logic, Polly'd be paying them...


----------



## Sue (Jul 9, 2019)

Poi E said:


> How to wash your hair
> 
> But how do I use the knobs on the sink to get water?


Next week's article thattaway.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 9, 2019)

Poi E said:


> How to wash your hair
> 
> But how do I use the knobs on the sink to get water?


Utter utter bollocks. 

Yes, I know, guardian etc, but takes no account of hair type other than a vague mention of afro hair towards the end, water softness/hardness and so on. To think people get paid for writing such tripe.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Utter utter bollocks.
> 
> Yes, I know, guardian etc, but takes no account of hair type other than a vague mention of afro hair towards the end, water softness/hardness and so on. To think people get paid for writing such tripe.


you learn more about washing hair from the back of a johnson's shampoo bottle


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> you learn more about washing hair from the back of a johnson's shampoo bottle


I'm more likely to trust the info label on the back of a Johnson shampoo bottle than guardian shite.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

They will have an article on how to dribble soon


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> They will have an article on how to dribble soon


I fully expect a series on how to breathe, how to blink, how to sleep, the patronising twats.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> They will have an article on how to dribble soon


There's one already: How to pitch an article to Guardian Opinion | Kira Cochrane


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 11, 2019)

John McCririck obituary
Written by a man who himself died five years ago


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 11, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> John McCririck obituary
> Written by a man who himself died five years ago



What were the odds?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 11, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> John McCririck obituary
> Written by a man who himself died five years ago


RED RUM! RED RUM!


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2019)

The Guardian deigns to report on a Tranmere match!  Played at Prenton Park.  But they can't even be arsed to name our squad, let alone refer to any of our players on the whole 1000 words.

Rhian Brewster braces for lift-off after helping Liverpool hit Tranmere for six


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2019)

**


----------



## stavros (Jul 14, 2019)

"Yet, even though Jo has a first-class maths degree, doing that research [into the affectiveness of vaccinations] has proved difficult."

Quite an interesting article. However, why being a maths graduate should enable easier access to medical research perplexed me.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 15, 2019)

stavros said:


> "Yet, even though Jo has a first-class maths degree, doing that research [into the affectiveness of vaccinations] has proved difficult."
> 
> Quite an interesting article. However, why being a maths graduate should enable easier access to medical research perplexed me.


A very good article, to be fair.
It’s true that the writer is conflating the fact that a maths graduate will understand statistical evidence better than most people with ease of access to research in the first place.  A fallacy but not unforgivable in the context of the article as a while.


----------



## Sue (Jul 15, 2019)

Hold onto your hats, folks...

How to chew your food properly


----------



## killer b (Jul 15, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> John McCririck obituary
> Written by a man who himself died five years ago


he also postumously wrote this one, a year on from his own death. 

Sir Peter O’Sullevan obituary

(it's fair enough tbf - I guess they have stuff like this on file, and there's no need to commission a new one just because the author is dead)


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 15, 2019)

stavros said:


> "Yet, even though Jo has a first-class maths degree, doing that research [into the affectiveness of vaccinations] has proved difficult."
> 
> Quite an interesting article. However, why being a maths graduate should enable easier access to medical research perplexed me.


Depends if the maths was applied or pure, and exactly what they were trying to break into. But maths does not equal statistics, so even with a first they would not necessarily be the first or best choice for such a study. They might be successful at medical mathematics but would likely need to have a PhD in the subject.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 15, 2019)

She's probably looking in the wrong places on the Internet, efficacy of vaccines is a big field in mathematical modelling.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 15, 2019)

I read a story in yesterdays Observer and a paragraph was repeated verbatim with a bit of fluff in between. I sadly cannot remember what the story was now.


----------



## rekil (Jul 21, 2019)

More culty shittery. 

'We stay pure in our little bubble': the Glastonbury couple who avoid the music



> Call me a hippie.


Hippy cunt.


> You might think that it would be hard to access that deeper consciousness with the sound of the festival, but we lead people into it quite artfully – even if I say so myself


Sleazy hippy cunt. 

But it doesn't get guardianer than this. Shamima Begum - dream dinner party guest.

RSVP Nina Simone and Shamima Begum: a dinner party for our times



> Offering someone hospitality is a way of letting them rest and recuperate and eat with you – and it’s important she’s with people who aren’t attacking her.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2019)

Performance art level of naiveté


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 22, 2019)

Two above-the-fold items on that most pressing of modern political issues - the Lib Dem leadership contest - with a follow-through hagiography piece titled Jo Swinson: youthful veteran long seen as natural heir to Vince Cable


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 22, 2019)

Oh fucking hell

The fightback for liberal Britain begins here. Jo Swinson can lead it | Timothy Garton Ash


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2019)

Why are you torturing yourself?


----------



## SE25 (Jul 22, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh fucking hell
> 
> The fightback for liberal Britain begins here. Jo Swinson can lead it | Timothy Garton Ash



if there is a lord please bless us with tears from these idiots come the next GE


----------



## Poi E (Jul 22, 2019)

_"The great unrepresented liberal Britain, that is, that people around the world admire and miss."
_
They don't care, Timothy. They really don't.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 22, 2019)

How to chew your food properly


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 23, 2019)

How social media echo chambers fuelled the rise of Boris Johnson | Suzanne Moore

Mysteriously pointless article by Suzanne Moore until you realise that it means "people who slag off nice liberal journalists like me on the internet are the real problem" (she gives the game away halfway through). I guess Boris is our fault then, everyone


----------



## Poi E (Jul 23, 2019)

Think they'd be happy now Swinson will save us all.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 24, 2019)

'Faux guacamole' raises alarm for taco lovers as avocado prices soar

Don't think this one needs any explanation.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 24, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> 'Faux guacamole' raises alarm for taco lovers as avocado prices soar
> 
> Don't think this one needs any explanation.


If guacamole made from squash not avocado tastes the same then who gives a fuck, it's not like slyly feeding people cats or something


----------



## Sprocket. (Jul 24, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> If guacamole made from squash not avocado tastes the same then who gives a fuck, it's not like slyly feeding people cats or something



O/T my mum said during the war cats were called Roof Rabbits.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 24, 2019)

They became millionaires and retired at 31. They think you can do the same


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2019)

So proud of peterloos


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 25, 2019)

8115 said:


> They became millionaires and retired at 31. They think you can do the same


No I can't. Not without a fucking time machine. And a boat load of cash. 

These articles really fuck me off, I think they are unrealistic and unhelpful for most people.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 25, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> No I can't. Not without a fucking time machine. And a boat load of cash.
> 
> These articles really fuck me off, I think they are unrealistic and unhelpful for most people.



That early retirement thing isn't even going to work for them, the numbers given don't add up at all. They haven't retired they're trying to monetise some bullshit media niche.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 25, 2019)

If they saved 500k in 7 years that's some going, I know it's in Canadian Dollars not pounds but very few individuals or couples are in a position to save money at that 
rate. Good luck to them but this article is no help whatsoever to 99.999% of the population. When I was their age I was the father of three and I wasn't saving shit never mind huge sums of dosh.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 25, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> That early retirement thing isn't even going to work for them, the numbers given don't add up at all. They haven't retired they're trying to monetise some bullshit media niche.


I think there's some kind of tax thing going on too, the article certainly implies they're outside of Canada for a large part of the year. So they could be non resident and claiming a tax advantage. Which is fine if you like travelling, but what if you don't, or can't for medical reasons. Utter bullshit, like you say.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 25, 2019)

The Guardian are obsessed with this FIRE thing, they keep doing articles about it. It is of course total bullshit.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2019)

8115 said:


> The Guardian are obsessed with this FIRE thing, they keep doing articles about it. It is of course total bullshit.


"...this FIRE thing,"?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 25, 2019)

Financially independent retired early. Pricks.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 25, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Financially independent retired early. Pricks.


Obliged.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 25, 2019)

There's a pretty obvious reason you hear about it so much: it means that the system works, you're just all doing it wrong.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 25, 2019)

If you want to properly retire at 30, you need net assets of more like £2m not £0.2m (which is the value of 0.5m CAD

(I mean, yes, you could theoretically retire on a quarter of that.  But I’m assuming you don’t want to be able to get quickly to 0.5m and then live on the poverty line for the rest of your life.)


----------



## TopCat (Jul 25, 2019)

This is fabulous. We’ve yet to work out how to oppose Boris Johnson. It won’t be easy | Suzanne Moore


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 25, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> If guacamole made from squash not avocado tastes the same then who gives a fuck, it's not like slyly feeding people cats or something


I think of all the things I've eaten that I like, guacamole would be close to the top of the list of foodstuffs I'd give up forever if I had to choose.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 25, 2019)

8115 said:


> They became millionaires and retired at 31. They think you can do the same


I know this isn't necessarily the done thing, but is he a real person? He looks like a bad Photoshop of one.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 25, 2019)

S☼I said:


> I think of all the things I've eaten that I like, guacamole would be close to the top of the list of foodstuffs I'd give up forever if I had to choose.


Don't get the fuss about guacamole really. Sometimes it's nice, it's often shit, it's good in burritos and stuff but it's no red pepper hummus


----------



## TopCat (Jul 25, 2019)

S☼I said:


> I think of all the things I've eaten that I like, guacamole would be close to the top of the list of foodstuffs I'd give up forever if I had to choose.


When it's dried at the edges in some rank burritos joint.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 30, 2019)

Lol


----------



## Mordi (Jul 30, 2019)

kabbes said:


> (I mean, yes, you could theoretically retire on a quarter of that.  But I’m assuming you don’t want to be able to get quickly to 0.5m and then live on the poverty line for the rest of your life.)



Shit, I've been doing it the wrong way round!


----------



## brogdale (Jul 31, 2019)

This month's poverty safari; bloke has discovered 'unknown' "deepest South London"; places like Mitcham, Colliers Wood and Tooting.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2019)

Belgian motorway chosen as site for Europe's tallest artwork

but this statue

in volgograd, formerly stalingrad (and before that tsaritsyn) is 85 metres tall. 
The Motherland Calls - Wikipedia

for the pedants among us, the ural mountains form the traditional eastern boundary of europe and volgograd notably to the west of them. yet another fact fuck up from the guardian


----------



## oryx (Jul 31, 2019)

brogdale said:


> This month's poverty safari; bloke has discovered 'unknown' "deepest South London"; places like Mitcham, Colliers Wood and Tooting.
> 
> View attachment 179287


I didn't see it as a poverty safari, more as a record of fast-changing areas of London. I thought some of the photos were stunning although I felt that the artist drawing parallels between himself and Hopper and van Gogh was a little presumptuous.

Anyway, that's me done defending The Guardian for the next year.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 5, 2019)

‘I don’t smell!’ Meet the people who have stopped washing
Dirty bastards


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

A growing number of people are eschewing soap and trusting bacteria to do the job instead – and an entire industry has sprung up to accommodate them..and here's four of my mates getting free advertising.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 5, 2019)

Labour all day and a bit of soap comes in handy.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Over time, my skin has adjusted’ ... the lifestyle guru Sarah Ballantyne.

The cosmetics industry is the wild west for companies saying their products do certain things’ ... Kit Wallen Russell, the co-founder of JooMo.

David Whitlock, the co-founder of pharmaceutical company AOBiome and its cosmetics arm, Mother Dirt.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 5, 2019)

But they were telling me how to wash my hair a few weeks back.


----------



## Santino (Aug 5, 2019)

Thinking of pitching an article about how I put quite a bit less washing liquid in the washing machine than the washing liquid manufacturers recommend.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2019)

Bit of a misleading title - it's mostly about just not using soap. I almost never use soap on my skin except to wash my hands and I don't think I'm a particular hippie.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 5, 2019)

I don't even use soap on my hands, this is a B&M handwash household


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2019)

This is way madder: Only a government of national unity can deliver us from no deal | Polly Toynbee


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2019)

My kingdom for a gnu


----------



## Santino (Aug 5, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> My kingdom for a gnu


A gnu to save the EMU.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 5, 2019)

I bought some new shampoo and my hair smells nice. Bet I could pitch that to the guardian for an article or two.


----------



## Sue (Aug 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I bought some new shampoo and my hair smells nice. Bet I could pitch that to the guardian for an article or two.


One on shampoo and one on conditioner ftw.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 5, 2019)

Sue said:


> One on shampoo and one on conditioner ftw.


I reckon there's a series on products too.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 5, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This is way madder: Only a government of national unity can deliver us from no deal | Polly Toynbee



i really can't face reading that.

although with the right PM, I think it might stand a chance...


----------



## Indeliblelink (Aug 6, 2019)

Can Kanye West solve America's housing crisis? Maybe …


----------



## Plumdaff (Aug 6, 2019)

I'm going to write a longform piece on reading Guardian longform pieces.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 6, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I bought some new shampoo and my hair smells nice. Bet I could pitch that to the guardian for an article or two.


What water did you use? Deionised? Alkaline? How did you rinse it? How many times? Tell us why you eschew hairdryers. 
1000 words please 400 quid.


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 6, 2019)

Why did John Lewis delay my £6,500 curtain order?


----------



## brogdale (Aug 6, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


> View attachment 179884
> 
> Why did John Lewis delay my £6,500 curtain order?


Fuksake.
This month's winner?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2019)

You need the smug name and the smug pic to be posted as well. They're both perfect.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 6, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> You need the smug name and the smug pic to be posted as well. They're both perfect.


Deffo saw her on that 750 million person march.


----------



## rekil (Aug 6, 2019)

Consumer Champions Against Brexit.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 6, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Deffo saw her on that 750 million person march.


Holding a broom?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Holding a broom?


----------



## emanymton (Aug 6, 2019)

Spuds we like: 16 ways to enjoy baked potatoes at home – from seaweed to baked bean hotpot

Putting Urban to shame here.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 6, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This is way madder: Only a government of national unity can deliver us from no deal | Polly Toynbee



Ohhh the injustice! I shall scweam and scweam and scweam and stomp my feet!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Ohhh the injustice! I shall scweam and scweam and scweam and stomp my feet!







Poi E recently


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 6, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> You need the smug name and the smug pic to be posted as well. They're both perfect.



Some of the comments are absolute gold too.

From their ‘pick’:



> When I moved into my now-husband’s cold, draughty, largely unmodernised grade II listed cottage I feared I would freeze to death. We had very little money and I spent countless hours on EBay searching for good quality curtains we could afford. It took two years and about £750 to clothe the windows of three bedrooms, two receptions and a kitchen with heavy, lined, good quality, thickly lined cotton secondhand curtains but it made a world of difference to our quality of life. With no central heating and just a log burner, those curtains saved thousands on electricity over the years and a tiny bit of the planet. (...) Good curtains are an investment and pay for themselves over time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 6, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Ohhh the injustice! I shall scweam and scweam and scweam and stomp my feet!


It's not just her idea it seems - seems like it's really being pushed quite heavily as a Harry Potter way to stop the Tories without actually kicking them out (which would mean Labour obvs). Rebecca Long-Bailey was having to state the obvious on C4:


----------



## scifisam (Aug 6, 2019)

I find it impossible to read beyond "let Margaret Becket."


----------



## Raheem (Aug 7, 2019)

scifisam said:


> I find it impossible to read beyond "let Margaret Becket."


So you never actually found out what it was that Margaret should be allowed to beck?


----------



## Sue (Aug 7, 2019)

How to eat on a first date to make sure you get a second one


----------



## Poi E (Aug 7, 2019)

_How to shit an article for the Guardian._


----------



## emanymton (Aug 7, 2019)

Good God

I never thought I’d see the royal family as a beacon of hope | Zoe Williams



> It’s true that the staunch republicanism of your average leftie in the 1970s and 80s faded in the callow 90s, when it simply wasn’t cool to worry about privilege. But even as many anti-monarchists turned to other issues, none could have ever imagined standing on the same side of the barricades as the royals



Think I might be stood on the other side of that barricade. 



> Could the prime minister really refuse to resign following a vote of no confidence, and use the lack of precedent and fog of chaos to force through a no-deal Brexit? “Oh, the Queen would never have it.” We hope. “She’d be bound to intervene.


I love that this is somehow seen as progressive. That the Guardian "left" are reduced to hopping an hereditary monarch comes swooping in to save them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

emanymton said:


> Good God
> 
> I never thought I’d see the royal family as a beacon of hope | Zoe Williams
> 
> ...


She seems to have missed the widely reported anti-monarchism of the late 1990s / the early 2000s apart from anything else


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)




----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 7, 2019)

That '90s, when it simply wasn't cool to worry about privilege' is very telling


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

I can readily imagine standing on the same side of the barricades as the royals, me facing them and the barricade, they with their backs to the makeshift wall


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

Sue said:


> How to eat on a first date to make sure you get a second one


The advice on relationships and sex bandied about in 1980s finchley wasn't always accurate or reliable but it never descended to the drivel in that article


----------



## scifisam (Aug 8, 2019)

For a thread elsewhere I'm trying to remember that article where a middle class woman says she's downsized by only living on her husband's huge income, and now she shops at Aldi because they're so poor. She works as a chef or something. "I gave up my well-paying job to spend more time with my children."

I've been really precise with my search terms and that specific article still hasn't come up because there are so, so many of them. 

Other people are often better at google-fu than me.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 8, 2019)

Although one article that came up was actually just what parents working late had said and it rang true. Particularly the last one. 

'My daughter felt forgotten': parents on working late


----------



## Celyn (Aug 8, 2019)

scifisam said:


> For a thread elsewhere I'm trying to remember that article where a middle class woman says she's downsized by only living on her husband's huge income, and now she shops at Aldi because they're so poor. She works as a chef or something. "I gave up my well-paying job to spend more time with my children."
> 
> I've been really precise with my search terms and that specific article still hasn't come up because there are so, so many of them.
> 
> Other people are often better at google-fu than me.


This might not be the one you are looking for, but does seem to be the same sort of thing. We downsized from £60,000 to £16,000



> Cut to the present and my partner, Chris, 39, and our two young children, aged two and four, have traded in our tiny suburban-by-the-sea home, affectionately known among friends as "the hobbit house", for a 2.3 acre smallholding half an hour outside Cardigan in west Wales for virtually the same price – just short of £300,000. We have swapped well-paid and bustling city living to become the skint owners of a small and remote piece of land up a, sort of, hill, where the nearest pub is an hour's walk away.





> When a bottle of wine is a luxury for just a few times a week, rather than a two-minute hop to the nearest shop because you've run out, it matters more. It's a treat rather than a given, and the same goes for so many other areas of our lives. The desire to get a cheeky takeaway subsides along with your bank account and since living like a peasant you've learned to cook really well, so the half hour drive to pick up food hardly seems worth it.





> We won't be living on less than £16,000 a year for ever. As I say, I've spent this past year writing a book about our often bumbling experiences and so have been unwaged during this time. But neither is this some middle-class experiment.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 8, 2019)

It's not the one, but it's still the kind where I think:

Guardian techs: What can make people click on things? Really annoying people. What annoyed people last year? The "avocados" thing? Keep that going.

Guardian writers: We want to help people cope with today's world and show examples of people who are doing that, just like us. 

And then there's a Venn diagram.


----------



## petee (Aug 8, 2019)

scifisam said:


> I've been really precise with my search terms and that specific article still hasn't come up



i had the same problem a bit ago with the guardian, though on a different topic. i concluded the article had been scrubbed.


----------



## Sue (Aug 8, 2019)

scifisam said:


> For a thread elsewhere I'm trying to remember that article where a middle class woman says she's downsized by only living on her husband's huge income, and now she shops at Aldi because they're so poor. She works as a chef or something. "I gave up my well-paying job to spend more time with my children."
> 
> I've been really precise with my search terms and that specific article still hasn't come up because there are so, so many of them.
> 
> Other people are often better at google-fu than me.



‘I took a huge salary hit so I can make my daughters my priority’


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> She seems to have missed the widely reported anti-monarchism of the late 1990s / the early 2000s apart from anything else


((((the People's Princess))))


----------



## YouSir (Aug 8, 2019)

Sue said:


> ‘I took a huge salary hit so I can make my daughters my priority’



I don't even understand that - she works and 18 hour week and gets £18k, then an extra grand a month 'allowance' - so £30k a year, almost half of which is tax free and she doesn't pay any mortgage or utilities... Where the hell is the sacrifice? All right next to a link to another story about a lad who's doing 38 hour weeks, all night shifts, at Sainsbury's as well as studying full time too. Wonder if she's ever read her own piece and noticed that?


----------



## scifisam (Aug 8, 2019)

Sue said:


> ‘I took a huge salary hit so I can make my daughters my priority’



That's the one!


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

This might make some sense down in that London, I guess... 

How can a man be too straight to recycle? | Owen Jones


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> This might make some sense down in that London, I guess...
> 
> How can a man be too straight to recycle? | Owen Jones


It's a pretty good article tbf


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> It's a pretty good article tbf



It really isn't.




			
				Owen Jones said:
			
		

> According to new research by Penn State University, men are avoiding environmentally friendly activities because they fear that anyone who catches them recycling or carrying a reusable shopping bag may think they’re seeking romantic trysts with other guys.



Take a look at the research he is quoting and see if you can find where it says anything like that.


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> It really isn't.


what's your problem with it? It's exploring a lot of the issues around toxic masculinity etc that we often discuss here, and I can't see much I really disagree with in it.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> what's your problem with it? It's exploring a lot of the issues around toxic masculinity etc that we often discuss here, and I can't see much I really disagree with in it.



See edit.  It's full of fairly uncontentious woke blah, but he's happy to make up any old shite as an excuse for it.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> It really isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Take a look at the research he is quoting and see if you can find where it says anything like that.


Don't see much wrong with it. Central point is valid - that internalised gender and sexuality expectations are damaging to the individual and society


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> It really isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Take a look at the research he is quoting and see if you can find where it says anything like that.


?


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> ?



I'm really going to have to lower my expectations.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> I'm really going to have to lower my expectations.


Yes it must be everybody else, poor you


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> Take a look at the research he is quoting and see if you can find where it says anything like that.


I can't find the original research and can't really be bothered to look for it to win an argument with you, but the article he quotes and the press release that article links to _do_ say 'anything like that'.

_They found that men and women were more likely to question a man's sexual orientation if he engaged in "feminine" pro-environmental behaviors, such as using reusable shopping bags. They were also more likely to question a woman's sexual orientation if she engaged in "masculine" pro-environmental behaviors, such as caulking windows._

Either way, the rest of the stuff he talks about in the piece is good.


----------



## andysays (Aug 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> I can't find the original research and can't really be bothered to look for it to win an argument with you, but the article he quotes and the press release that article links to _do_ say 'anything like that'.
> 
> _They found that men and women were more likely to question a man's sexual orientation if he engaged in "feminine" pro-environmental behaviors, such as using reusable shopping bags. They were also more likely to question a woman's sexual orientation if she engaged in "masculine" pro-environmental behaviors, such as caulking windows._
> 
> Either way, the rest of the stuff he talks about in the piece is good.


Does the article explain *how/why* using reusable shopping bags comes to be seen as a gendered behaviour in the first place?

That's the bit that seems a bit weird to me, not that people might avoid behaviours perceived as 'other gender'


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

Oh sorry, I thought I made it clear I don't really care. Go and look for the research yourself if you do.


----------



## andysays (Aug 8, 2019)

OK, not trying to win anything, just vaguely curious. Will have a look later, maybe.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> Oh sorry, I thought I made it clear I don't really care. Go and look for the research yourself if you do.



Yeah, if you don’t give a shit about stuff like standards of journalism it’s really not a bother.


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yeah, if you don’t give a shit about stuff like standards of journalism it’s really not a bother.


Have you found the original research yet?


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> Have you found the original research yet?



Are you actually ok?


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> Are you actually ok?


You seem to think the research Jones refers to doesn't support the premise of his article. Have you read it?


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

I just can't even right now.

Just... fucking hell.


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

are you actually ok?


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

killer b said:


> are you actually ok?



Seriously - forget I said anything.  I'm going to go and stare grumpily at a duck or something.


----------



## killer b (Aug 8, 2019)

I'm here for you if you need anything. x


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

Nobody, including 8ball, has seen the original research because it hasn't been published online.

Think 8ball jumped in because the link in the G piece was mostly about gender expectations not sexuality whereas Jones referred to 'male trysts' except this is a link the actual researchers make in their own press release, which is where pink news and about a thousand other outlets took the 'recycling makes you gay' thing from.

Basically 8ball's seen his arse.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Basically 8ball's seen his arse.



Better than having my head up it.  You really can't tell this dismal phoned-in clickbait from journalism?
Amazing.  Just not in a good way.

But fair enough.  It's not you, it's me - this is how the world is now etc.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> Better than having my head up it.  You really can't tell this dismal clickbait from journalism.
> Amazing.  Just not in a good way.


The screenshot is from the researchers' press release. Maybe the press release is clickbait, maybe it's not. You don't know cos you've not seen the research


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

Say hello to the duck


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> The screenshot is from the researchers' press release. Maybe the press release is clickbait, maybe it's not. You don't know cos you've not seen the research



<sighs>


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

<sigh> I can't even blah

Post something or fuck off


----------



## 8ball (Aug 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> <sigh> I can't even blah
> 
> Post something or fuck off



edit:

Actually the press release is pretty close to clickbait, but that's just how University press departments roll these days.
And if I'm going to have to write down some of the things that are wrong with that article (I doubt I could catch them all), I guess I can do that.  
But not today.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 12, 2019)

Nigel Farage attacks Harry and Meghan, jokes about 'overweight' Queen Mother

I can think of plenty of reasons why Farage is a massive cunt but being rude about the royals, god bless 'em, really isn't one of them.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 12, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Nigel Farage attacks Harry and Meghan, jokes about 'overweight' Queen Mother
> 
> I can think of plenty of reasons why Farage is a massive cunt but being rude about the royals, god bless 'em, really isn't one of them.


But the article doesn't comment on that, it is just reporting his comments, which are noteworthy.  Should they not have reported it?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2019)

Yes, they shouldn't have. A talk in Australia ffs and focusing on his  comments on the royals. That's not just reporting.


----------



## emanymton (Aug 12, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, they shouldn't have. A talk in Australia ffs and focusing on his  comments on the royals. That's not just reporting.


Ok fair enough. I do think this is newsworthy enough to report. Although not to be the lead story on their website like it currently is.

But do you think this is because he said something nasty about the Royals, or because they think it might weaken his support?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2019)

emanymton said:


> Ok fair enough. I do think this is newsworthy enough to report. Although not to be the lead story on their website like it currently is.
> 
> But do you think this is because he said something nasty about the Royals, or because they think it might weaken his support?


It's because they are desperate to establish a narrative of being anti-eu as being indecent, as unbritish, against what it means to be truly british - that is, pro-_modern  monarchy,_ sensible, non-extremist and to be outside of that is to be racist and a bit ugh.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 12, 2019)

emanymton said:


> But the article doesn't comment on that, it is just reporting his comments, which are noteworthy.  Should they not have reported it?



I wondered whether it was one of those things where you report on it in the hope that someone else picks it up.


----------



## killer b (Aug 12, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> It's because they are desperate to establish a narrative of being anti-eu as being indecent, as unbritish, against what it means to be british - that is, pro-modern  monarchy, sensible, non-extremist and to be outside of that is to be racist and a bit ugh.


Not sure if it's going that far - more they're imagining Farage's supporters all being red-faced royalists who'll abandon him when they hear he's been saying rude things about the queen mum gawd bless 'er.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2019)

killer b said:


> Not sure if it's going that far - more they're imagining Farage's supporters all being red-faced royalists who'll abandon him when they hear he's been saying rude things about the queen mum gawd bless 'er.


i can't imagine anyone under 40 gives a flying fuck about the queen mum. and precious few over 40 too.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2019)

killer b said:


> Not sure if it's going that far - more they're imagining Farage's supporters all being red-faced royalists who'll abandon him when they hear he's been saying rude things about the queen mum gawd bless 'er.


I think they're aiming a bit higher and wider than that and have been relentlessly for day after day over three years now. Each day another daft story re-inforcing that narrative. Nothing done by accident here. Look at how they hyped the utterly mad lucas story at the same time  - it was the lead story from yesterday aft to this morning, till farage - as part of that construction of what is sensible.  Two sides of the same coin:  1) here's a loon 2) here's sensible people. Despite the fact the real lunacy is from what they are trying to establish is the sensible.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 12, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> I think they're aiming a bit higher and wider than that and have been relentlessly for day after day for three years now. Each day another daft story re-inforcing that narrative. Nothing done by accident here. Look at how they hyped the utterly mad lucas story at the same time  - it was the lead story from yesterday aft to this morning, till farage - as part of that construction of what is sensible.  Two sides of the same coin:  1) here's a loon 2) here's sensible people. Despite the fact the real lunacy is from what they are trying to establish is the sensible.



They don’t seem to open comments on the madder stories so much at the moment- guess that could be an indicator of some strategy going on.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2019)

8ball said:


> They don’t seem to open comments on the madder stories so much at the moment- guess that could be an indicator of some strategy going on.


too few mods to cope


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2019)

You'd think on the school holidays they could get a few senior journos kids in for valuable experience.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> too few mods to cope



Yeah, they'll open them on the more niche topics (silly diet advice or whatever), but anything 'culture wars' they seem to have stopped.  Guess that fits your theory.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> You'd think on the school holidays they could get a few senior journos kids in for valuable experience.


given the state of the paper that could only be an improvement.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 12, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> You'd think on the school holidays they could get a few senior journos kids in for valuable experience.



I thought they mostly ran the joint these days.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2019)

8ball said:


> I thought they mostly ran the joint these days.


Oddly enough, Rusbridger's daughter who he smuggled in under a false name as a mod would now be called out day after day as an anti-semite by whoever's kids are now running the place.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 12, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Oddly enough, Rusbridger's daughter who he smuggled in under a false name as a mod would now be called out day after day as an anti-semite by whoever's kids are now running the place.



I hadn't heard of anything more than an online* spat a decade or so ago.

*  -corrected from "Twitter spat" - force of habit...


----------



## scifisam (Aug 12, 2019)

Yeah, but he's not being rude about the royals for being hereditary freeloaders, he hates them for talking about climate change, supporting charities and, in Harry's case, no longer dressing up as a Nazi. And he's doing it because they're currently popular and he can't stand anyone else being popular.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Aug 12, 2019)

This, Norwich as Holiday destination.
Norwich is the graveyard of ambition and NOT a holiday destination.
Can anyone suggest another source of news? there's plenty to loathe about the Guardian but i've not found anything else that replaces it.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 12, 2019)

scifisam said:


> Yeah, but he's not being rude about the royals for being hereditary freeloaders, he hates them for talking about climate change, supporting charities and, in Harry's case, no longer dressing up as a Nazi. And he's doing it because they're currently popular and he can't stand anyone else being popular.


Well, not more popular than him, which means he hates all of us pretty much.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 13, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Well, not more popular than him, which means he hates all of us pretty much.



Unfortunately he is quite popular. 

So popular that he can literally do a "your Mum's so fat" joke aimed at the Queen and some people will think he's being daring and funny for doing it. Because a centenarian who died twenty years ago is a really hard target.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 15, 2019)

Even by The Guardian’s piss poor standards this is a new low:

Obsession with white working class fuels inequality in north, study warns

for so many reasons.

Firstly, the ongoing campaign by them to other the white working class, and strip it of agency, is up front and centre.

Secondly, the article overlooks that the vast majority of the northern working class are, in fact, white. As confirmed by the report its covering!!

Third, the report overlooks a forensic study by the same organisation A few months ago and reports as ‘news’ selected elements of a 3 page compilation of existing data that seeks to pit one marginalised group against another.

The report also fails to mention the central finding of the larger study - that growing inequality is not driven by the allocation of resources but the generalised lack of resources.

To quote from the study directly:

_In fact, the most disadvantaged working-class people of whatever
ethnic background, roughly the poorest fifth of the population, are increasingly separated from the more prosperous majority by inequalities of income, housing and education. By emphasizing the virtues of individual self-determination and the exercising of ‘choice’, recent governments have in fact entrenched the ability of the middle and upper classes to avoid downward social mobility and preserve the best of life’s goods for their own children. Moreover, the rhetoric of politicians and commentators has tended to abandon the description ‘working-class’, preferring instead to use terms such as ‘hard working families’ in order to contrast the virtuous many with an underclass perceived as feckless and undeserving. Furthermore, several authors of this volume argue that recent changes in work patterns have contributed fundamentally to these inequalities, as the work of so many of the worst paid has also become part-time, ‘flexible’ and casual – in other words, highly insecure._

Finally, the article overlooks the basic fact that the most pressing issue for the entire working class are  low pay, zombie contracts, collapsing opportunity, declining services and who is responsible and why.

Even amongst the desperation and meltdown over Brexit that dominates the guardian these days this piece of utter crap still managed to stand out.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2019)

_Mystical_ ffs. Did she read it? And it's a two page briefing not a report.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 15, 2019)

Here is the actual report by the Trust, which seems to have been conveniently ignored by erm the Trust. Some of it is excellent, some of it isn’t. None of it resembles the article in the Guardian. As for the ‘paper’ it isn’t actually a report, it’s a compilation of existing research.

And yeah, _mystical....._

https://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/publications/pdfs/WhoCaresAboutTheWhiteWorkingClass-2009.pdf


----------



## stavros (Aug 17, 2019)

> Nationwide the German Beekeepers’ Association has grown by a quarter in the past six years from 92,000 members in 2013 to more than 120,000 today.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Aug 17, 2019)

I hope we can show a bit of solidarity with Owen Jones who was brutally attacked on his birthday night out, (pre meditated)

I agree with much of the criticisms but what else?


----------



## brogdale (Aug 24, 2019)

Here.


Aren't we all?


----------



## shambler (Aug 26, 2019)

Is this romanticising exploitation? Seems pretty dodge to me...

Zahia Dehar: from teenage escort to the summer star of French cinema


----------



## brogdale (Aug 27, 2019)




----------



## killer b (Aug 28, 2019)

Did we miss this? Mind you, there was people on here expressing the same sentiment this morning


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Did we miss this? Mind you, there was people on here expressing the same sentiment this morning
> View attachment 182338


royal families are a beacon of hope until they end up being targets in a cellar


----------



## emanymton (Aug 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Did we miss this? Mind you, there was people on here expressing the same sentiment this morning
> View attachment 182338


Nope. Page 279.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Did we miss this? Mind you, there was people on here expressing the same sentiment this morning
> View attachment 182338



A Guardian hack aiming for the zeitgeist and shooting themselves in the foot instead? Unheard of.


----------



## killer b (Aug 28, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> A Guardian hack aiming for the zeitgeist and shooting themselves in the foot instead? Unheard of.


Sure frank.



SpookyFrank said:


> What chance Brenda tells him to get fucked?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 28, 2019)

killer b said:


> Sure frank.



Google 'rhetorical question' why don't you.


----------



## rekil (Aug 29, 2019)

All of this one.





> His free-market morals found expression in his client base. He’d work for almost any dodgy dictator (though I wouldn’t). But he’d also take on clients who had views alien to his own.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 29, 2019)

copliker said:


> All of this one.
> 
> View attachment 182444


The contrast between dodgy dictators and people who's views he disagreed with is art really


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 29, 2019)

And lawson is still head of the bleeding edge acid corbynism freaks of compass.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 3, 2019)

"Titan"

I know it's the Gruaniad, but _*Brexis *_does, inadvertently (?) seem to capture the essence of a disease.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 3, 2019)

Oh, hold on...this just might win this weeks peak Guardian...


----------



## Mordi (Sep 3, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Oh, hold on...this just might win this weeks peak Guardian...
> 
> View attachment 183047



The delusion of thinking the Lib Dems would represent any sort of stability to anyone is breathtaking.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2019)

Mordi said:


> The delusion of thinking the Lib Dems would represent any sort of stability to anyone is breathtaking.


they'll always have both cheeks on the opposition benches, which is stability of a sort


----------



## Flavour (Sep 9, 2019)

Polly toynbee, who has spent the last few years decrying Corbyn to all who'll listen on countless fronts, today, has the audacity to remark


> Who’s afraid of Jeremy Corbyn? Unthinking, knee-jerk Corbynphobia is a danger in the precarious weeks ahead, as the country’s fate hangs by that red thread.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 11, 2019)

Why it’s time to take the Liberal Democrats seriously again | Martin Kettle

The time to take Martin Kettle seriously remains some way off.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2019)

Jesus fucking wept:

How did my far left ex-boyfriend swing so far that he’s now in Farage’s party?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 14, 2019)

peterkro said:


> Jesus fucking wept:
> 
> How did my far left ex-boyfriend swing so far that he’s now in Farage’s party?


Manages to only briefly mention in passing probably the most influential factor in this trajectory - bamping part of the RCP/spiked orbit. Although joining labour to vote for corbyn a bit left field for an RCPer


----------



## rekil (Sep 14, 2019)

> There must have been some uncomfortable dinner parties.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 14, 2019)

(also interesting to note that the compliance regime in labour when corbyn challenged, which managed to pick up and root out legions of people who had previously been members of clandestine far left sects or had posted social media support for the greens somehow failed to identify somebody who had joined the tories a few years prior - and married to a hobsbawm/part of the north london politico crowd so presumably a bit of a known figure)


----------



## scifisam (Sep 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Manages to only briefly mention in passing probably the most influential factor in this trajectory - bamping part of the RCP/spiked orbit. Although joining labour to vote for corbyn a bit left field for an RCPer



I'm confused. Bamping, the ex-girlfriend he hadn't seen for forty years, influenced his trajectory? 

This is the reason, surely: 



> He “enjoyed being a big fish in a small pond.”


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 14, 2019)

scifisam said:


> I'm confused. Bamping, the ex-girlfriend he hadn't seen for forty years, influenced his trajectory?
> 
> This is the reason, surely:


Bamping is the bloke. Yeah sure being an ego and a contraversialist type plays a part but also clear path from SWP to Brexit Party via RCP/living marxism/spiked, cos a fair number have done exactly that


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2019)

I expect that he's moved at least as far away from trotskyism as her. She makes clear her own disdain for any sort of radical politics clear throughout the article. In guardian writers this is usually a mask for murderous sensible grown-up centrism. Indeed, she positions herself as the adult to the childish anti-eu game-playing _child _in this piece.

What on earth happened to her?


----------



## scifisam (Sep 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Bamping is the bloke. Yeah sure being an ego and a contraversialist type plays a part but also clear path from SWP to Brexit Party via RCP/living marxism/spiked, cos a fair number have done exactly that



Oh, sorry, I misread.  (I'll facepalm myself and thank you for not facepalming me). Makes sense now.

I'll take your word for it about the path, but it sounds reasonable, partly due to the liking being a big fish thing (which was a direct quote from Bamping in the article). I can think of some major politicians who seem to have the same attitude.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 14, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> I expect that he's moved at least as far away from trotskyism as her. She makes clear her own disdain for any sort of radical politics clear throughout the article. In guardian writers this is usually a mask for murderous sensible grown-up centrism. Indeed, she positions herself as the adult to the childish anti-eu game-playing _child _in this piece.
> 
> What on earth happened to her?


Ah but travelling from far left student days to middle class dinner party guardian new labour centrism is acceptable. From youthful hyper liberalism to just sensible liberalism. Not this.


----------



## scifisam (Sep 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Ah but travelling from far left student days to middle class dinner party guardian new labour centrism is acceptable. From youthful hyper liberalism to just sensible liberalism. Not this.



Well, she's not quite as condemning of him in that article. But Bamping also signed up to support Corbyn when he seemed like an outsider, then abandoned that strand too (and the Guardian and new Labour types hate Corbyn). It really does seem like he just wants to be a big fish even if he has to swim with sharks. 

I can't find online anything about Alaric Bamping's background but I suspect it was middle class before he joined the SWP.


----------



## rekil (Sep 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> (also interesting to note that the compliance regime in labour when corbyn challenged, which managed to pick up and root out legions of people who had previously been members of clandestine far left sects or had posted social media support for the greens somehow failed to identify somebody who had joined the tories a few years prior - and married to a hobsbawm/part of the north london politico crowd so presumably a bit of a known figure)


Maybe he was rooted out but he or she neglected to mention it in case it looks like he joined because it would be better for the tories to have a mad 70s throwback fucker labour leader rather than any of the sensible centrist electable ones. it could be a lie too.


----------



## Sue (Sep 14, 2019)

Even for Nick Cohen, this is wtf. Enjoy! 

To see how extremism has taken root in Britain just look at Islington North | Nick Cohen


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 20, 2019)

In honour of today's Earth Strike, the Guardian has published this amazing feature:

My father had a lifelong ticket to fly anywhere. Then they took it away

TLDR: My dad's so enormously rich that he felt it was a realistic investment to spend $250,000 in 1987 on unlimited first class travel, but lost his ability to hop over from the US to Sweden whenever he wanted to go buy flowers or whatever and now he's sad. In fact he's still sad even though he lost that ability a decade ago. PITY US.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 20, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> In honour of today's Earth Strike, the Guardian has published this amazing feature:
> 
> My father had a lifelong ticket to fly anywhere. Then they took it away
> 
> TLDR: My dad's so enormously rich that he felt it was a realistic investment to spend $250,000 in 1987 on unlimited first class travel, but lost his ability to hop over from the US to Sweden whenever he wanted to go buy flowers or whatever and now he's sad. In fact he's still sad even though he lost that ability a decade ago. PITY US.



Jesus christ


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 20, 2019)

They don't really seem to recognise their priveleged behaviour. Wow.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 20, 2019)

Jesus fuck. Did I just read that in the guardian.


----------



## Sue (Sep 20, 2019)

I specially liked this bit:

'With $23bn in annual revenue, American Airlines had nothing to lose. For my father, it was a last-ditch effort to save his life.'


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 20, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> In honour of today's Earth Strike, the Guardian has published this amazing feature:
> 
> My father had a lifelong ticket to fly anywhere. Then they took it away
> 
> TLDR: My dad's so enormously rich that he felt it was a realistic investment to spend $250,000 in 1987 on unlimited first class travel, but lost his ability to hop over from the US to Sweden whenever he wanted to go buy flowers or whatever and now he's sad. In fact he's still sad even though he lost that ability a decade ago. PITY US.



The article is the size of a small book, too. Longest article I've never read.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 20, 2019)

> This story was first published by Narratively. Narratively is a digital publication that prides itself on looking beyond the news headlines and clickbait, focusing instead on ordinary people with extraordinary stories. Our contributors comb the world’s big cities and hidden corners to find the underdogs and overlooked tales that enlighten us, connect us, and capture our imagination


Like fuck.


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 20, 2019)

Aaaaarrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


----------



## campanula (Sep 20, 2019)

Sue said:


> 'With $23bn in annual revenue, American Airlines had nothing to lose. For my father, it was a last-ditch effort to save his life.'


 That's actually as far as I read (there seemed to be a wall of limitless drivel).


----------



## binka (Sep 20, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> In honour of today's Earth Strike, the Guardian has published this amazing feature:
> 
> My father had a lifelong ticket to fly anywhere. Then they took it away
> 
> TLDR: My dad's so enormously rich that he felt it was a realistic investment to spend $250,000 in 1987 on unlimited first class travel, but lost his ability to hop over from the US to Sweden whenever he wanted to go buy flowers or whatever and now he's sad. In fact he's still sad even though he lost that ability a decade ago. PITY US.




_Aamil – whose name I’ve changed to respect his privacy – was a refugee who fled the Bosnian genocide with his family. Dad met Aamil when he was in high school, driving a cart at O’Hare, and took him under his wing – errands and various paid-for-hire tasks. Ultimately, Aamil started coming over for dinner; picked us up at school; became Josh’s “big brother” ears for his dating rendezvous as he entered high school; and was both an employee and a dear, dear friend.
_
Dad took Aamil under his wing, was an employee and 'a dear, dear friend'

_Six years and two months later, Dad arrived at O’Hare with Aamil, who needed to go to Sarajevo but didn’t have the cash, so Dad offered to fly him to London on his AAirpass and then pay for his London hotel and airfare from there to Sarajevo...

“ I went into the ticket counter. I checked in my luggage for London. I walked to the gate … and just as I was walking on the plane, they handed me a letter terminating the AAirpass,” ...

Aamil never made it to Sarajevo. In fact, that was one of the last times they ever spoke. Ultimately, Aamil disappeared from our lives.

Dad doesn’t think Aamil understood the “shock and horror” of what had happened. 
_
So instead of doing the decent thing and paying for Aamil to get home he fucks him off and doesn't speak to him again, clearly Aamil should have been more understanding. If that's how he treats someone he takes under his wing imagine how much of a cunt he is to everyone else.

It's laughable how he thinks the poor bastards at AA who had to put up with him for years on end actually like him - does he not realise that's their job! 
_

_


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 20, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> In honour of today's Earth Strike, the Guardian has published this amazing feature:
> 
> My father had a lifelong ticket to fly anywhere. Then they took it away
> 
> TLDR: My dad's so enormously rich that he felt it was a realistic investment to spend $250,000 in 1987 on unlimited first class travel, but lost his ability to hop over from the US to Sweden whenever he wanted to go buy flowers or whatever and now he's sad. In fact he's still sad even though he lost that ability a decade ago. PITY US.


multi-millionaire loses his ability to fly first class anywhere at a moment's notice for free doesn't really stir the same feelings of outrage as granny losing her free bus pass.


----------



## Sue (Sep 20, 2019)

campanula said:


> That's actually as far as I read (there seemed to be a wall of limitless drivel).


Wise decision, it doesn't get any better.


----------



## oryx (Sep 20, 2019)

I was looking forward to reading the comments on that article...AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEM!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 20, 2019)

Somebody at the Guardian found that somewhere else online, stumbled across it, gave up half an hour to actually fucking read it from beginning to end, and thought 'yeah that will really resonate, let's republish it'


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 20, 2019)

It's the outrage at him having his pass revoked that got me - he'd been flying whoever the fuck he felt like on the companion ticket, rather than his actual spouse or member of his family, and he doesn't think that breached the contract. I would be very surprised if the airline didn't specify such a restriction in the contract.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 21, 2019)

I thought it would have been a good plot for a short story, maybe by Truman Capote - the super rich broker who gets this magic ticket which transforms his life, but who starts to rely on it when he breaks down following the death of his son, and is then cut off by an impersonal corporate culture. It's a weird situation, there are all sorts of dynamics going on, and some great characters.

It would be a much nastier short story than the one in the guardian though, which is kind of hampered by the author being his daughter and

(a) still not seeing how fucking odd this is, let alone privileged, after having grown up with it;

(b) not being prepared to look at why this devoted dad that she loves, in this amazing loving family, ended up drinking hard liquor and talking to American Airlines employees in the middle of the night to make him feel better. You get some really defensive quotes from her mother in there which go unexamined, apparently deliberately since they stand out so much. You get all the bits about all the people he helped with this, though obviously fuck what happens to them when it's no longer an issue of giving them stuff you get for free anyway. I LOVE MY DAD.

I guess you could do it as an unreliable narrator thing in which case it would be similar but with a bit more punch tbh.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 21, 2019)

Yes, he is hopping on planes all over the world but the mother claimed he was still there. Well he bloody wasn't, was he?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 21, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, he is hopping on planes all over the world but the mother claimed he was still there. Well he bloody wasn't, was he?


This is why it's so great. You've got this central device of the magic ticket, which everyone in the family is using to paper over issues - the mother is saying it makes up for his absence, the daughter has travel as the only form of affection she recognises (lol at the whole thing about "he's taught you his wanderlust" - this is the only emotional contact she has with her father, no wonder she tries to emulate the situation as much as possible). The father uses it when he has a breakdown because that's all he knows - it isn't very effective though given that he does it for years. Even the source of their wealth is justified by the random times the man has deigned to help out poor people with the magic ticket, and that only, and sod them once they come out of its remit, they don't even exist any more.

Then the magic ticket is taken away and everyone is devastated and none of them realise that the ticket wasn't actually keeping them together at all. They were broken all the time.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 21, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This is why it's so great. You've got this central device of the magic ticket, which everyone in the family is using to paper over issues - the mother is saying it makes up for his absence, the daughter has travel as the only form of affection she recognises (lol at the whole thing about "he's taught you his wanderlust" - this is the only emotional contact she has with her father, no wonder she tries to emulate the situation as much as possible). The father uses it when he has a breakdown because that's all he knows - it isn't very effective though given that he does it for years. Even the source of their wealth is justified by the random times the man has deigned to help out poor people with the magic ticket, and that only, and sod them once they come out of its remit, they don't even exist any more.
> 
> Then the magic ticket is taken away and everyone is devastated and none of them realise that the ticket wasn't actually keeping them together at all. They were broken all the time.


I think you should do a rewrite of the article in more realistic terms.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 21, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I think you should do a rewrite of the article in more realistic terms.


I'm really thinking of using this as source material for something. Maybe including a newspaper unquestioningly publishing the unquestioning version of the daughter because of the social statuses involved.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 21, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> It's the outrage at him having his pass revoked that got me - he'd been flying whoever the fuck he felt like on the companion ticket, rather than his actual spouse or member of his family, and he doesn't think that breached the contract. I would be very surprised if the airline didn't specify such a restriction in the contract.


Seems like his main offence wasn't occasionally bending the rules on his plus one. There's some data in the article which suggests he averaged 8 or 9 seat bookings per day over a three year period and only actually got on a tiny proportion of the flights. Because he was depressed and was using the booking staff for human contact, he says. Or it might have been to get around the inconvenience of planes being fully-booked when you want to fly at a moment's notice.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 21, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm really thinking of using this as source material for something. Maybe including a newspaper unquestioningly publishing the unquestioning version of the daughter because of the social statuses involved.


Oh god, her bias was really annoying. Made me really want to slap the privelege out of her.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 21, 2019)

Raheem said:


> Seems like his main offence wasn't occasionally bending the rules on his plus one. There's some data in the article which suggests he averaged 8 or 9 seat bookings per day over a three year period and only actually got on a tiny proportion of the flights. Because he was depressed and was using the booking staff for human contact, he says. Or it might have been to get around the inconvenience of planes being fully-booked when you want to fly at a moment's notice.


I think we can all agree he flagrantly breached the terms of use on both passes frequently. It's a miracle he kept it for as long as he did, really. 

It's tough being a jetsetting multi-millionaire. We just don't understand.


----------



## stavros (Sep 21, 2019)

"We spent about £200,000 renovating it, which involved moving a few walls, adding a dog-friendly shower room, and a new staircase."

How I spend it.


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 21, 2019)

stavros said:


> "We spent about £200,000 renovating it, which involved moving a few walls, adding a dog-friendly shower room, and a new staircase."
> 
> How I spend it.



Love how this series is titled:


> “*How I spend it - *We examine real people’s lives and how they really spend it – not the rich and famous, but the extraordinary tales of ordinary working people and what money really means to them”



Bloke has a million pound investment fund, a buy-to-let portfolio and 60,000 salary.

_“Ordinary working people”_ my arse.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 21, 2019)

His idea of being frugal is 'only' having two holidays a year where he spent £6k on business class flights. 

Ordinary working class people don't own multiple properties in Edinburgh, London and Cape Town, own a few businesses and live in a renovated oast house in Kent. 

Fucking guardian.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 21, 2019)

stavros said:


> "We spent about £200,000 renovating it, which involved moving a few walls, adding a dog-friendly shower room, and a new staircase."
> 
> How I spend it.


I can't face reading that shit, buy out of curiosity does it give any indication of why he is wearing womens shoes?


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 21, 2019)

emanymton said:


> I can't face reading that shit, buy out of curiosity does it give any indication of why he is wearing womens shoes?


He's part of the LGTBQ community. I don't care what shoes he wears to be honest.


----------



## Celyn (Sep 21, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> In honour of today's Earth Strike, the Guardian has published this amazing feature:
> 
> My father had a lifelong ticket to fly anywhere. Then they took it away
> 
> TLDR: My dad's so enormously rich that he felt it was a realistic investment to spend $250,000 in 1987 on unlimited first class travel, but lost his ability to hop over from the US to Sweden whenever he wanted to go buy flowers or whatever and now he's sad. In fact he's still sad even though he lost that ability a decade ago. PITY US.





> ... A few months later, my father sued American for breaking their deal, and more importantly, *taking away something integral to who he was*.


(bolding mine)

Such a worry, such a tragedy. I can't afford to fly anywhere so I suppose that is integral to who I am.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 22, 2019)

Better or worse than 'how to make toast', do people think? The Airpass story I mean.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 22, 2019)

Guardian disappearing off into senility like our political class.

The only way to gain a sensible view of internal matters in the UK is by reading foreign commentators.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 22, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> He's part of the LGTBQ community. I don't care what shoes he wears to be honest.


I largely agree. I was just curious because of the contrast between the suit and shoes.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 22, 2019)

I have to object to the statements that the man is flawed because he spent $250,000 on a magic ticket that allowed him and a companion to travel first class wherever he wanted whenever he liked.

He actually spent $400,000.  The companion piece was purchased 2 years on for an extra $150,000.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 22, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Better or worse than 'how to make toast', do people think? The Airpass story I mean.


Way worse. It is actively offensive in a way silly articles about toast could never be.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 22, 2019)

Would be great to have a magic ticket to fly anywhere though tbf, I'd fucking love it. Surprised more smugglers didn't invest in them.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 22, 2019)

I did a bit of research on his case last night. American Airlines estimated he had cost them $21 million which is why they terminated. A copy of his contract was available online via the Wikipedia page on the case, and the companion clause is poorly drafted. It doesn't define properly who a companion can be other than it might be a spouse. So I can see why both interpretations were made. 

He certainly got his money's worth from the pass.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 22, 2019)

American sold far fewer passes than they anticipated as well, only 66. So not the huge cash injection they thought this program was going to be.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 22, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Would be great to have a magic ticket to fly anywhere though tbf, I'd fucking love it. Surprised more smugglers didn't invest in them.


Maybe they did, but were careful not to draw attention to themselves. Only 2 out of the 66 passes were terminated as far as I can tell.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 22, 2019)

I personally thought the American Airlines story was quite good.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 22, 2019)

8115 said:


> I personally thought the American Airlines story was quite good.


The story itself is quite interesting tbf but the telling of it and the way it is framed - this poor lonely great dad/shit dad stockbroker unfairly deprived of his mobility/ability to fly anywhere in first for fuck all reason etc - is awful


----------



## 8115 (Sep 22, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> The story itself is quite interesting tbf but the telling of it and the way it is framed - this poor lonely great dad/shit dad stockbroker unfairly deprived of his mobility/ability to fly anywhere in first for fuck all reason etc - is awful


I didn't read it as framed in that way. I thought it was a lot subtler than that. For instance the article basically admits that he was doing things like booking two seats so he didn't have to sit next to anyone.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 22, 2019)

emanymton said:


> I can't face reading that shit, buy out of curiosity does it give any indication of why he is wearing womens shoes?



My guess would be that he is an attention seeking twat.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 22, 2019)

8115 said:


> I didn't read it as framed in that way. I thought it was a lot subtler than that. For instance the article basically admits that he was doing things like booking two seats so he didn't have to sit next to anyone.


This is the opening paragraph, come on. And the daughter could hardly ignore your example given it was this stuff that the airline deemed fraudulent and the courts upheld as breach of contract.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Sep 23, 2019)

8115 said:


> I didn't read it as framed in that way. I thought it was a lot subtler than that. For instance the article basically admits that he was doing things like booking two seats so he didn't have to sit next to anyone.


And largely because he was calling the airline for therapy...after spending every moment he could on planes to avoid his family. I was more interested in the guy’s mental health than his carbon footprint being a 1%er


----------



## xenon (Sep 23, 2019)

I couldn't read it all either. I mean clocked the bit about his kid dying and thought, oh don't be so hheartless, read on a bit but it was more dull stuff about correspondence with AA and just listing places. If nothing else, demonstrates the need for a good editor.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 23, 2019)

It was published elsewhere as a long story before being republished in the Guardian. I am not convinced anyone read it properly before republishing it. 

Like FridgeMagnet said, his family have used the Airpass stuff as a distraction from deeper issues at the heart of the family - absent father, absent husband, indulging in his love of travel above other responsibilities.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Sep 24, 2019)

They're getting a lot of stick over this article promoting raw milk drinking without mentioning the health risks.
Creamy, untreated and in a glass bottle: Britain’s taste for old-fashioned milk
especially not questioning this -


> Pasteurisation heats milk to destroy potential pathogens but, say raw milk advocates, kills many vitamins and minerals which could be beneficial to health.


 

'Raw' milk trend blamed for one of UK's worst food poisoning outbreaks


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 24, 2019)

Indeliblelink said:


> They're getting a lot of stick over this article promoting raw milk drinking without mentioning the health risks.
> Creamy, untreated and in a glass bottle: Britain’s taste for old-fashioned milk
> especially not questioning this -
> 
> ...


The Guardian, posting a biased article?! Surely not...


----------



## Indeliblelink (Sep 24, 2019)

They've changed the picture now too.
Started off with this


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 24, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Guardian disappearing off into senility like our political class.
> 
> The only way to gain a sensible view of internal matters in the UK is by reading foreign commentators.



Either that or the bottom of a cup of tea.


----------



## Poi E (Sep 25, 2019)

With or without poisonous milk?


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2019)

I've drunk milk from low sizergh barn farm's raw milk dispenser - its really lush. Shame about the food poisoning


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2019)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Either that or the bottom of a cup of tea.


So rare now to find tea leaves at the bottom of a teacup


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2019)

FWIW though, everyone knows what pasteurisation is for, and that unpasteurised milk is slightly more likely to poison you than pasteurised, just like they know that raw meat and raw eggs have risks. It's not really the responsibility of the graun to highlight these risks when they write about this stuff just because some farm's hygiene and testing regime got a bit sloppy.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 25, 2019)

Ernie, I’d be happy if it comes up to my chest.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Sep 26, 2019)

No mention of last week’s hastily retracted editorial that talked about Cameron’s privileged pain, and some how managed to conflate that with the (tragic) death of his kid. 

Am i the only one that just assumed it was Owen Jones’s work..I was just reading his summary of the Labour Party conference..uncritical is maybe the best summary. He should be on the NEC payroll.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2019)

pseudonarcissus said:


> No mention of last week’s hastily retracted editorial that talked about Cameron’s privileged pain, and some how managed to conflate that with the (tragic) death of his kid.
> 
> Am i the only one that just assumed it was Owen Jones’s work..I was just reading his summary of the Labour Party conference..uncritical is maybe the best summary. He should be on the NEC payroll.


you cannot hope to bribe or twist
(thank god!) the british journalist
but seeing what they'll do
unbribed, there's no occasion to


----------



## Poi E (Sep 27, 2019)

Prince Andrew's damaged reputation - podcast

Reputation as feckless fiddling fucker.


----------



## treelover (Sep 28, 2019)

Guardian hasn't even put the very positive news that Labour will change Universal Credit, abolish sanction, punitive regime, rename DWP, Dept of Social Security on its front page.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 28, 2019)

treelover said:


> Guardian hasn't even put the very positive news that Labour will change Universal Credit, abolish sanction, punitive regime, rename DWP, Dept of Social Security on its front page.


Or on the UK Politics landing page - some mention of it in the "opinion" part but that's it (and that is mostly Freedland/Hyde/Ellen). Probably because the G doesn't support any of that stuff, or other bits like their excellent proposals about "hostile environment" and voting rights.


----------



## Flavour (Sep 28, 2019)

Indeliblelink said:


> They're getting a lot of stick over this article promoting raw milk drinking without mentioning the health risks.
> Creamy, untreated and in a glass bottle: Britain’s taste for old-fashioned milk
> especially not questioning this -
> 
> ...



funny how people continued drinking milk raw for thousands of years until Louis Pasteur invented pasteurization innit. perhaps i'd go as far to say a miracle. it's almost as if the health risk didn't occur to them!!!


----------



## Santino (Sep 28, 2019)

Flavour said:


> funny how people continued drinking milk raw for thousands of years until Louis Pasteur invented pasteurization innit. perhaps i'd go as far to say a miracle. it's almost as if the health risk didn't occur to them!!!


Funny how people used to die of TB.


----------



## Flavour (Sep 28, 2019)

Santino said:


> Funny how people used to die of TB.



1. not all TB comes from mycobacterium bovis
2. it's possible to test raw milk (and indeed cows) for the presence of it
3. the majority of raw milk usage is for cheese, which generally reduces the associated risks quite substantially


----------



## Santino (Sep 28, 2019)

Flavour said:


> 1. not all TB comes from mycobacterium bovis
> 2. it's possible to test raw milk (and indeed cows) for the presence of it
> 3. the majority of raw milk usage is for cheese, which generally reduces the associated risks quite substantially


What does any of that have to do with people drinking raw milk for thousands of years?


----------



## 8115 (Sep 28, 2019)

Nobody else is mentioning it but what about the Guardian "Love and Sex" section? They must be made up. I do read it but I find it completely mortifying.


----------



## Flavour (Sep 28, 2019)

Santino said:


> What does any of that have to do with people drinking raw milk for thousands of years?



you're bringing in TB as a reason to avoid raw milk. raw milk undoubtedly caused lots of cases TB throughout history. so what? people didn't know the risks then, they know now. they can make their own choice. if you really wanna go there the TB-raw milk connection is specific to cows' milk, and there's no reason any human should be drinking it in any form, pasteurized or not. (/vegan)


----------



## D'wards (Oct 1, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 3, 2019)

Why I ditched my therapist to hire a dominatrix instead


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 3, 2019)

D'wards said:


> View attachment 185697



What about people with chronic illnesses, for whom maintaining a good level of fitness is a genuine achievement and/or a grim necessity? Are they automatically tories if they allow themselves a little pride in being able to do so against unsporting odds? What about those who have overcome mental illness or addiction with the help of physical activity, and for whom pride and self belief are both entirely deserved and vital to maintaining their progress? Are they all a bunch of little Farages?

Eugh. Fuck off Zoe Williams.


----------



## greenfield (Oct 3, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> What about people with chronic illnesses, for whom maintaining a good level of fitness is a genuine achievement and/or a grim necessity? Are they automatically tories if they allow themselves a little pride in being able to do so against unsporting odds? What about those who have overcome mental illness or addiction with the help of physical activity, and for whom pride and self belief are both entirely deserved and vital to maintaining their progress? Are they all a bunch of little Farages?
> 
> Eugh. Fuck off Zoe Williams.



Woosh


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 3, 2019)

Flavour said:


> funny how people continued drinking milk raw for thousands of years until Louis Pasteur invented pasteurization innit. perhaps i'd go as far to say a miracle. it's almost as if the health risk didn't occur to them!!!



Im pretty sure that people didn't generally drink milk in great quantities prior to Louis Pasteur - they made it into cheese and butter instead. Imagine 18th century london - no refrigeration, no  pasteurization and very little pasture for dairy herds - milk would have to be brought in by cart from miles away and would go off pretty quickly. And there were no corn flakes to pour it on either.


----------



## belboid (Oct 3, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Im pretty sure that people didn't generally drink milk in great quantities prior to Louis Pasteur - they made it into cheese and butter instead. Imagine 18th century london - no refrigeration, no  pasteurization and very little pasture for dairy herds - milk would have to be brought in by cart from miles away and would go off pretty quickly. And there were no corn flakes to pour it on either.


They did though. That's partly why pasteurisation became important. Hospitals brought it in by train! It was more popular further north - imagine it in Manchester or Dundee! It was looked down upon by the wealthier, its true, and the French and others from warmer climes thought it very common.

It did get a lot more popular after pasteurisation its true.


----------



## Marty1 (Oct 3, 2019)

D'wards said:


> View attachment 185697



Just read that article (for a laugh) as I was intrigued by the headline.

Complete load of drivel if not mildly entertaining when bored and about to go to bed.


----------



## rekil (Oct 3, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Im pretty sure that people didn't generally drink milk in great quantities prior to Louis Pasteur - they made it into cheese and butter instead. Imagine 18th century london - no refrigeration, no  pasteurization and very little pasture for dairy herds - milk would have to be brought in by cart from miles away and would go off pretty quickly. And there were no corn flakes to pour it on either.


Sour milk was popular in the part of Ireland la di dah Spanish soldier Francisco De Cuellar washed up on.



> The custom of these savages is to live as the brute beasts among the mountains, which are very rugged in that part of Ireland where we lost ourselves. They live in huts made of straw. The men are all large bodied, and of handsome features and limbs; and as active as the roe-deer. They do not eat oftener than once a day, and this is at night; and that which they usually eat is butter with oaten bread. They drink sour milk, for they have no other drink; they don't drink water, although it is the best in the world. On feast days they eat some flesh half-cooked, without bread or salt, as that is their custom. They clothe themselves, according to their habit, with tight trousers and short loose coats of very coarse goat's hair. They cover themselves with blankets, and wear their hair down to their eyes.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 4, 2019)

The Irish didn’t use much salt?  What happened?


----------



## TopCat (Oct 4, 2019)

belboid said:


> They did though. That's partly why pasteurisation became important. Hospitals brought it in by train! It was more popular further north - imagine it in Manchester or Dundee! It was looked down upon by the wealthier, its true, and the French and others from warmer climes thought it very common.
> 
> It did get a lot more popular after pasteurisation its true.


Plus we had the beyond sinister Milk Marketing Board.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 4, 2019)

8115 said:


> Nobody else is mentioning it but what about the Guardian "Love and Sex" section? They must be made up. I do read it but I find it completely mortifying.


It's got beyond cliche. The recipe is simple enough. Any man who wants agency in their relationships = Bad. 
Any woman who wants pretty much anything = Good. 
The warring comments are always worth a look.


----------



## scifisam (Oct 5, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Im pretty sure that people didn't generally drink milk in great quantities prior to Louis Pasteur - they made it into cheese and butter instead. Imagine 18th century london - no refrigeration, no  pasteurization and very little pasture for dairy herds - milk would have to be brought in by cart from miles away and would go off pretty quickly. And there were no corn flakes to pour it on either.



You don't necessarily need a fridge to keep milk cold. People had cold pantries if they had the space (and more people did when fewer people lived in cities), local suppliers had their own cold pantries and delivered every day so it didn't need to be kept cold long anyway, and you can keep milk cold easily by just putting it outside your window in cold weather, of which there was a lot. Medieval recipes very often include milk and cream.

I spent a few months living in Slovakia in the early 90s and fridges were uncommon there; even the modern tower block I lived in had a cold pantry instead, plus milk hung from every window.


----------



## agricola (Oct 6, 2019)

Frank Field, Anna Soubry, David Lammy, Claire Fox and Mark Littlewood review the latest Ken Loach film.  It is as you would imagine it to be:



> It was therefore difficult to grasp what sort of alternative would have been preferable for the family. Had social care been fully nationalised, and all delivery firms been offering permanent contract work, would they have been better off? All of the insurance risk, and the responsibility for replacing staff who are sick, would now be borne by the company, presumably having a downward pressure on wages.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 6, 2019)

agricola said:


> Frank Field, Anna Soubry, David Lammy, Claire Fox and Mark Littlewood review the latest Ken Loach film.  It is as you would imagine it to be:


Frank Field's comments very good, he is frustratingly often very good at articulating this stuff which is why I find his overall politics unfathomable, his Blair years and working for Tories and housing families in shipping containers under motorways. 

Soubry a fucking joke, 'tough comprehensive' and making it about EU, there's your liberal tory right there, arsehole. Could only manage about half a sentence of the Littlewood IEA one, cunt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 6, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Plus we had the beyond sinister Milk Marketing Board.


And the milk cup


----------



## TopCat (Oct 11, 2019)

Labour failure to grow vote share points to tricky election, analyst warns

It should be headlined as "Discredited Tory peer predicts Labour poll pressure".


----------



## rekil (Oct 11, 2019)

Rory Carroll said:
			
		

> Instead of gladhanding constituents and attending funerals, two traditional elements of Ireland’s parish pump politics, Varadkar prefers to read policy papers and strategise with aides. He is, in other words, that person mocked by Johnson: a swot.





> “He doesn’t have a lot of time for, or interest in, small talk,” said Brendan O’Shea, a doctor who trained Varadkar as a medical student. “We have someone who is forensic about what he thinks should be done. The calculating machine will make a decision about what is the best decision then the politician will switch on and figure out a way to sell that.”


Alternate reality PR fluff.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 11, 2019)

copliker said:


> View attachment 186666
> 
> 
> 
> Alternate reality PR fluff.


Jesus, it's an alternate reality. The person I know who trained with him knew him to be the laziest cunt in the class.


----------



## savoloysam (Oct 11, 2019)

Joker review – the most disappointing film of the year

I've not seen it myself yet but going by the majority view.....


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 11, 2019)

What's wrong with that?


----------



## killer b (Oct 11, 2019)

savoloysam said:


> Joker review – the most disappointing film of the year
> 
> I've not seen it myself yet but going by the majority view.....


Shouldn't you see the film before declaring a review wrong?


----------



## rekil (Oct 11, 2019)

flypanam said:


> Jesus, it's an alternate reality. The person I know who trained with him knew him to be the laziest cunt in the class.


I know someone who worked with him when he was a junior doctor and she said the same a few years ago. It reads like a reworded press release as they've been pushing that insidious guff about FG being for 'people who get up early in the morning' constantly along with trying to project a pathetic Trudeauesque action man image.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 11, 2019)

killer b said:


> Shouldn't you see the film before declaring a review wrong?



I'm seeing the film tomorrow. Will be interesting to read the reviews and articles that I've been deliberately avoiding.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 13, 2019)

"*Revealed"

*


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2019)

brogdale said:


> "*Revealed"
> 
> View attachment 186935*



All this time I thought my rent money was going to sickly orphan kids.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 14, 2019)

killer b said:


> Shouldn't you see the film before declaring a review wrong?


One of the best films I have seen in years.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 14, 2019)

copliker said:


> View attachment 186666
> 
> 
> 
> Alternate reality PR fluff.


My boss said to me "you must be so proud to have a prime minister like that".

Oh. Oh no.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 16, 2019)

Lights, camera, no action: why we shouldn’t mourn the death of the camcorder

Only missing "(will this do?)" at the end.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 16, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Lights, camera, no action: why we shouldn’t mourn the death of the camcorder
> 
> Only missing "(will this do?)" at the end.


I see you and I raise you.

Cuffing season: are people really coupling up just because it is winter?


----------



## Admiral Fitz (Oct 17, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Lights, camera, no action: why we shouldn’t mourn the death of the camcorder
> 
> Only missing "(will this do?)" at the end.



It's Heritage, you didn't expect anything better did you?


----------



## Raheem (Oct 17, 2019)

TopCat said:


> One of the best films I have seen in years.


Definitely one of the best films I haven't seen.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 20, 2019)

People’s Vote march: from every corner of the land they came, to join a very British rebellion in the rain

These protesters are the very best people in the UK. All of them. Apparently. All the time. Emulate them. Let them rule forever


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 23, 2019)

No filter: my week-long quest to break out of my political bubble

*Talks to people who think Graun and Telegraph represent the broad spectrum of opinion*


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 23, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> No filter: my week-long quest to break out of my political bubble
> 
> *Talks to people who think Graun and Telegraph represent the broad spectrum of opinion*


So reading a broad spectrum of the very narrow views represented in established media makes you a libdem/soft tory, who knew


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2019)

The number of people who just repeat that line depresses me.  I've met perfectly normal people who say they're worried that Corbyn is "an extreme leftwinger".  When I tell them he's nowhere near as leftwing as me, they laugh and say "I don't think that's true".  Despite me telling them it is.  "No, no, I'm an anarchist communist.  He's just a social democrat".  But the notion won't budge.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 24, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> The number of people who just repeat that line depresses me.  I've met perfectly normal people who say they're worried that Corbyn is "an extreme leftwinger".  When I tell them he's nowhere near as leftwing as me, they laugh and say "I don't think that's true".  Despite me telling them it is.  "No, no, I'm an anarchist communist.  He's just a social democrat".  But the notion won't budge.


And it goes the other way.  The kabbess approves of him because “he’s a socialist”.  The nuance of socialist vs social Democrat is not an argument I feel I want to have at this time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 24, 2019)

The article does gently take the piss out of the two companies that offer "balanced news" though, and eventually concludes that it's better to use a plugin that injects random words into your Facebook search bar. Which actually makes sense tbh - you get a more balanced view of the world by seeing more of it, not by seeing very specific parts that other people think you should see for their own reasons.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

TopCat said:


> People’s Vote march: from every corner of the land they came, to join a very British rebellion in the rain
> 
> These protesters are the very best people in the UK. All of them. Apparently. All the time. Emulate them. Let them rule forever


tbh i remember a rainy march back in 1998 with people from all over the uk


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2019)

Winner of this year's NoShitSherlock press awards goes to...


----------



## Beermoth (Oct 26, 2019)

Peak Guardian

I'm never more aware of my working-class origins than when I hide from my cleaner | Grace Dent


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2019)

Beermoth said:


> Peak Guardian
> 
> I'm never more aware of my working-class origins than when I hide from my cleaner | Grace Dent


Every time we think we've seen peak guardian they manage to outdo themselves


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2019)

Presented as 'news', this headline has been generated by a sub-editor on the basis of an account of 1 focus group of 16 individuals. Might as well just report on what we're saying here FFS.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 26, 2019)

Beermoth said:


> Peak Guardian
> 
> I'm never more aware of my working-class origins than when I hide from my cleaner | Grace Dent


Just what exactly is the point of that article? I guess it would fit ok on someone's personal blog or whatever, but I cannot see any reason why a newspaper would see fit to publish it. As shit as the Guardian is I still thought it might go somewhere, try and make some kind of point in the end. But nope, nothing.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 26, 2019)

Grace Dent is The Worst.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 27, 2019)

Para 2:


> As the crowd grew to around 10,000, according to police estimates, *TV footage showed protesters throwing *bottles, balls and *rubber bullets at officers*.



Paras 7 & 8:


> Some projectiles were fired [by police].
> 
> A Reuters photographer was taken to hospital after being hit in the stomach by a rubber or foam bullet [fired by police], while Catalan emergency services said medics treated four people, none of whom were seriously injured.



Spanish police clash with thousands of Catalan protesters in Barcelona


----------



## brogdale (Oct 27, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Para 2:
> 
> 
> Paras 7 & 8:
> ...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 27, 2019)

Meat & potatoes _Graun_:


> ...the lawsuit commenced in New York by Zervos...*proceeds* apace.



All the President's Women review: Donald Trump, sexual predator


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 27, 2019)

They're really chasing down the medals today, aren't they?


> Baghdadi died when he detonated a suicide *best*



Who was Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and why is his death important?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 27, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> They're really chasing down the medals today, aren't they?
> 
> 
> Who was Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and why is his death important?


Reminds me curiously of a rather sad encounter with George in Banstead Waitrose (the old one before the fire) when he literally bumped into me on his way out to the car-park with a trolly of little else than vodka.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 27, 2019)

Meanwhile...the polar ice-caps are melting because of those German toss-pots...


----------



## JimW (Oct 27, 2019)

How nice to see "toss-pot" used in its original sense. With such a fine ear for the English language you need never worry about finding yourself on the business end of a Guardian copy desk.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 27, 2019)

Moz makes his feelings known 

Morrissey performs in LA wearing 'Fuck the Guardian' vest

Morrissey performs in LA wearing explicit anti-Guardian vest


----------



## Raheem (Oct 27, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Moz makes his feelings known
> 
> Morrissey performs in LA wearing 'Fuck the Guardian' vest
> 
> Morrissey performs in LA wearing explicit anti-Guardian vest


It's only cos he considers the fact he's a twat to be fake news, though. But it really isn't.


----------



## stavros (Oct 27, 2019)

> Tom Morris, who owns 90% of Home Bargains parent TJ Morris with the other 10% in a family trust, studiously avoids the limelight. One of the few photographs in circulation of Tom is the businessman awkwardly posing with some Morecambe pupils after being allowed to land his helicopter on their school field to visit a new store nearby.
> 
> “Tom is very impressive,” says one business associate. “There is a humility to him that is very admirable. He is very private and does not flaunt his wealth.”


----------



## hash tag (Oct 27, 2019)

Morrissey performs in LA wearing explicit anti-Guardian vest


----------



## MrSki (Oct 27, 2019)

A good advert for the Guardian.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 27, 2019)

Seems to be their most viewed story at the moment, so not bad in terms of easy revenue either.


----------



## agricola (Oct 28, 2019)

*How to replace Kate Hoey? My local party showed that stitch-ups aren’t working *

warning:  contains only trace amounts of stitch-ups


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 30, 2019)

How students can buy a £400,000 home with zero deposit

For those who haven't guessed, the answer is 'by having rich parents'


----------



## Flavour (Oct 31, 2019)

Can someone please put Adrian Chiles out of his misery, btw. Agonizing.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2019)

Yesterday they ran a breathless piece very prominently (i'm sure it was the lead online piece for a while) screaming that "remain could win general election"if only 30% of pro-remain voters change their vote in the upcoming general election. An hour or so later it was replaced with Tactical voting website criticised for 'bogus' advice outlining how it was lib-dem bullshit and if the advice was followed it would boost the tories. So aside from the fact that they're so desperate that they either mistake or are prepared to lie that the election is a referendum (legally binding in their minds no doubt) they're very happy to be mugged (Donal Macintyre in Brixton style) and shown not to actually do classic journalist basics anymore. They're barely even  pretending to be doing UK political news anymore. This is like that crap poll on the end of the lib-dems are shit thread.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 31, 2019)

Election time really brings out the finest in the Guardian. It's day three of campaigning, and at this second, this is their front page.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 31, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Morrissey performs in LA wearing explicit anti-Guardian vest
> 
> View attachment 188376


that was on the guardian front page for several days, he must have cut them to the very quick


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 31, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> that was on the guardian front page for several days, he must have cut them to the very quick



They fucking love it I reckon. It's the first sign they've seen in years that anyone gives a toss what they think. OK it's a washed up old bigot but if they've annoyed him that much at least they can carry on telling themselves they matter.


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 1, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They fucking love it I reckon. It's the first sign they've seen in years that anyone gives a toss what they think. OK it's a washed up old bigot but if they've annoyed him that much at least they can carry on telling themselves they matter.


Half of them used to work for the fucking NME anyway.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 1, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Meanwhile...the polar ice-caps are melting because of those German toss-pots...
> 
> View attachment 188332



"Fuckload of people in one place cause bigger environmental impact than ... look over there - a badger!!"


----------



## killer b (Nov 4, 2019)




----------



## rekil (Nov 6, 2019)

Experience: I own a haunted pub

I own a pub with some sort of gas leak
I own a pub and I'm a credulous loon  
I own a building filled with booze and strange things keep happening
I'm up to my balls in debt and ghost bullshit is my last hope to get someone through the door she's about to leave me I'm on the bridge lads


----------



## mauvais (Nov 6, 2019)

copliker said:


> Experience: I own a haunted pub
> 
> I own a pub with some sort of gas leak
> I own a pub and I'm a credulous loon
> ...









Grant Mitchell's gone weird, hasn't he.


----------



## Santino (Nov 6, 2019)

copliker said:


> Experience: I own a haunted pub
> 
> I own a pub with some sort of gas leak
> I own a pub and I'm a credulous loon
> ...


She's turned the weans against us.


----------



## rekil (Nov 6, 2019)

Santino said:


> She's turned the weans against us.


A real life Limmy character situation here.

Father-of-five avoids jail after entering pub topless with knife because he heard barman was having affair with partner - Independent.ie


----------



## stavros (Nov 9, 2019)

Because there's never been much coverage of Waller-Bridge in the Graun:


----------



## Poi E (Nov 10, 2019)

copliker said:


> A real life Limmy character situation here.
> 
> Father-of-five avoids jail after entering pub topless with knife because he heard barman was having affair with partner - Independent.ie



Cocaine and alcohol addiction noted by the judge. Bad shit that cocaethylene Cocaethylene - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 10, 2019)

Santino said:


> She's turned the weans against us.


This is worse than me using exclamation marks.

Fick off with this.


----------



## rekil (Nov 11, 2019)

Brunching harder than ever me.

Early afternoon delight: the boundless appeal of brunching

Maybe this isn't as funny as I think. Pics of beans and things get posted non stop here.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Nov 11, 2019)

copliker said:


> View attachment 189688
> 
> Brunching harder than ever me.
> 
> ...


Did you read it? Curious about how brunch can encroach into afternoon without becoming dinner (or 'lunch' if you like)


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 11, 2019)

Brunch should have its own thread.


----------



## JimW (Nov 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Did you read it? Curious about how brunch can encroach into afternoon without becoming dinner (or 'lunch' if you like)


Always assumed it was a contraction of breakfast and lunch so pre-noon, but not going to read the article.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 11, 2019)

copliker said:


> View attachment 189688
> 
> Brunching harder than ever me.
> 
> ...



Brunch is obviously late morning, not early afternoon


----------



## scifisam (Nov 11, 2019)

JimW said:


> Always assumed it was a contraction of breakfast and lunch so pre-noon, but not going to read the article.



The stupid title probably isn't down to the writer (because yes, that where the word comes from), but he does say this:

*“*Sometimes when you roll out of bed there’s nothing better than cooking a great brunch in your own surroundings."

No, that's called breakfast. And well done you, you sometimes make a fry up. We can all learn from this food guru.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Nov 11, 2019)

scifisam said:


> The stupid title probably isn't down to the writer (because yes, that where the word comes from), but he does say this:
> 
> *“*Sometimes when you roll out of bed there’s nothing better than cooking a great brunch in your own surroundings."
> 
> No, that's called breakfast. And well done you, you sometimes make a fry up. We can all learn from this food guru.


So brunch is basically an indulgent breakfast instead of two weetabix or a piece of toast in the car


----------



## scifisam (Nov 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> So brunch is basically an indulgent breakfast instead of two weetabix or a piece of toast in the car



Yes. And can involve alcohol, preferably cocktails, unlike drinking at breakfast, which is something only alkies do.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 11, 2019)

scifisam said:


> Yes. And can involve alcohol, preferably cocktails, unlike drinking at breakfast, which is something only alkies do.


That seems to be the primary point of it tbh, drinking before midday. All the brunch deals I see seem to make a point of bottomless Prosecco, a free cocktail etc.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 11, 2019)

So it's for people too scared get a 10am pint in the wetherspoons?


----------



## rekil (Nov 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Did you read it? Curious about how brunch can encroach into afternoon without becoming dinner (or 'lunch' if you like)


800 words on _brinner_. It's an advert btw. Says so at the bottom.


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2019)

copliker said:


> 800 words on _brinner_. It's an advert btw. Says so at the bottom.


you only do brinner at christmas


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 11, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> So it's for people too scared get a 10am pint in the wetherspoons?


Nobody tell them about that, Wetherspoons is best in the morning. The last thing we want is a load of influencers coming in for an ironic brunch.


----------



## YouSir (Nov 11, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That seems to be the primary point of it tbh, drinking before midday. All the brunch deals I see seem to make a point of bottomless Prosecco, a free cocktail etc.



Bottomless you say?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 11, 2019)

YouSir said:


> Bottomless you say?


I bet there's small print. No serious retailer offers actual bottomless drinks in this country more than once.


----------



## YouSir (Nov 11, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I bet there's small print. No serious retailer offers actual bottomless drinks in this country more than once.



Aye, doubt they'd give you more than a bottle/half a box or so. Bastards.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 11, 2019)

YouSir said:


> Aye, doubt they'd give you more than a bottle/half a box or so. Bastards.



A bottle is a pretty decent mid-morning sharpener, mind you. The sort of thing that leads to leaning on a wall outside the kebab shop waiting for it to open. At 4pm.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Nov 11, 2019)

I went to a bottomless prosecco (could also have beer, specifically bottles of becks) thing once for a birthday for a woman I know. Think it was £20 a head but you only get two hours to get it down you. Reckon I did get my money's worth for pub/bar prices, although the bar wouldn't have lost money on what they pay and everybody stays after and pays bar prices. Also I had to drink becks and shit prosecco.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 11, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I bet there's small print. No serious retailer offers actual bottomless drinks in this country more than once.



I went to a bottomless brunch recently for a work colleague's 60th. It was genuinely bottomless, but for 90 minutes. We got pretty shit faced tbh.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 11, 2019)

Plumdaff said:


> I went to a bottomless brunch recently for a work colleague's 60th. It was genuinely bottomless, but for 90 minutes. We got pretty shit faced tbh.



I was at a wedding reception a few years ago where there was a free bar all night. The bride - very posh, very lovely, very clever, from somewhere terribly Home Counties. The groom - very lovely, very clever, from Clackmannan. Both scientists. Anyway, the bride's dad was pretty cool about how far over the initial amount he'd stuck behind the bar his credit card went. I mean, after hiring Stirling Castle, what's a couple of grand on top of that?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 12, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I bet there's small print. No serious retailer offers actual bottomless drinks in this country more than once.


I've been to one and it really was bottomless - prosecco, beer and gin


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 12, 2019)

"headless body in topless bar"


----------



## emanymton (Nov 13, 2019)

Love the caption to the picture


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 13, 2019)




----------



## rekil (Nov 15, 2019)

Most of these are tories and libdems are they not? There's even an Ayn Rand cultist in there. Why not just get it over with and endorse the Swinson party. 

Concerns about antisemitism mean we cannot vote Labour | Letter


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2019)

Orwellian pro-work propaganda:
Under pressure: how stress can change our lives for the better


----------



## petee (Nov 19, 2019)

Orang Utan said:


> Orwellian pro-work propaganda:
> Under pressure: how stress can change our lives for the better



"eustress"


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 19, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> A bottle is a pretty decent mid-morning sharpener, mind you. The sort of thing that leads to leaning on a wall outside the kebab shop waiting for it to open. At 4pm.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 19, 2019)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> A bottle is a pretty decent mid-morning sharpener, mind you. The sort of thing that leads to leaning on a wall outside the kebab shop waiting for it to open. At 4pm.


4pm? What sort of kebab shop do you frequent which opens so tardily? Archway kebab, for example, open from 11am and you can get an earlier kebab in eg dalston


----------



## crossthebreeze (Nov 19, 2019)

petee said:


> "eustress"


It is a thing in psychology - it explains why people enjoy rollercoasters and horror movies and rock climbing and bdsm sex and watching and playing competitive sport. Contained doses of stress can be fun and have positive effect on relaxation, confidence, etc. Very different concept to trying to get people to "reframe" ongoing, grinding, work stress as "eustress".


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2019)

**


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 19, 2019)

Why vote? You’re just clinging to a wrecked system | Suzanne Moore

In a subtle double-bluff, the Guardian attempts to persuade everyone to vote so as not to align themselves with self-obsessed tossers aghast at the idea that, for once, maybe there isn't a party specifically pandering to them.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 20, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Why vote? You’re just clinging to a wrecked system | Suzanne Moore
> 
> In a subtle double-bluff, the Guardian attempts to persuade everyone to vote so as not to align themselves with self-obsessed tossers aghast at the idea that, for once, maybe there isn't a party specifically pandering to them.


I read it as they were trying to persuade people not to vote because voting won't change anything.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 1, 2019)




----------



## D'wards (Dec 3, 2019)

#trollingtheguardian is trending on Twitter


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2019)

This week's 'new low'. Like anything other than sitting alone with the heating off grimly downing one cheap vodka after another is going to be appropriate this time.

Crisps, cheese and curaçao: how to have a fantastic election night party


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 5, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> This week's 'new low'. Like anything other than sitting alone with the heating off grimly downing one cheap vodka after another is going to be appropriate this time.
> 
> Crisps, cheese and curaçao: how to have a fantastic election night party


The whole concept of an election night party is very middle class high blairite four holidays a year but I have so many direct debits to charities isn't it


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 5, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> The whole concept of an election night party is very middle class high blairite four holidays a year but I have so many direct debits to charities isn't it



I mean, making regionally appropriate finger foods and buying hilarious amuse bouches in party colours? If you've got that much time on your hands, get the fuck out and give people lifts to polling stations, you pointless arse.


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 5, 2019)

How to eat: a crisp sandwich 
How to eat: a crisp sandwich


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 5, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> How to eat: a crisp sandwich
> How to eat: a crisp sandwich


I had to skim a lot of waffle to get to something I can agree with



> surely we can all agree that “fluffy” crisps – Monster Munch, Skips, spicy Nik Naks, Quavers, Chipsticks, generic cheesy balls – have no role to play in a crisp sandwich?





DotCommunist said:


> Anything thats a 'corn puff' or similar is out. No space raiders, no wotsits, no quavers.



but as always the groan ruins it somehow


> never use ready-salted crisps. Too parsimonious. There isn’t a war on. Yet.


fuck off, my word is oak:


DotCommunist said:


> ham sandwich with english mustard and walkers* ready salted *is about the best


----------



## Raheem (Dec 6, 2019)

You can put anything between two slices of bread. If you're putting crisps in a sandwich, fine, but you've crossed the Rubicon. Trying to make out that Monster Munch would be a step too far just makes you look guilty.


----------



## Marty1 (Dec 6, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> This week's 'new low'. Like anything other than sitting alone with the heating off grimly downing one cheap vodka after another is going to be appropriate this time.
> 
> Crisps, cheese and curaçao: how to have a fantastic election night party





> You can have a lot of fun with colour coding when the stakes aren’t very high. I used to make cheesecakes decorated as a bar chart of the vote share, which was a shame as people actually prefer blueberries to strawberries, and kiwi to lemon.


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 8, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> This week's 'new low'. Like anything other than sitting alone with the heating off grimly downing one cheap vodka after another is going to be appropriate this time.
> 
> Crisps, cheese and curaçao: how to have a fantastic election night party



And now this one. Even if you give them the benefit of the doubt and exclude the outlying Cuvee Winston Churchill (£180 a bottle), the average price of the wines mentioned here is £24.83.

Party favourites: wines to see you through election night | David Williams

Isn't it starting to look like the Guardian knows about this thread and is trolling us?


----------



## brogdale (Dec 8, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Isn't it starting to look like the Guardian knows about this thread and is trolling us?



Nah, they really are just a bunch of entitled oxbridge cunts.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 8, 2019)

I've written to the Guardian about all you feckless losers...


----------



## teqniq (Dec 8, 2019)

If Boris Johnson gets back to Number 10 he will have Jeremy Corbyn to thank | Andrew Rawnsley

Never mind the largely hostile media in which you play a large part eh Andrew?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 13, 2019)

Oh god.

There is hope: Boris Johnson’s big majority could unleash the social liberal within | Simon Jenkins


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 13, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Oh god.
> 
> There is hope: Boris Johnson’s big majority could unleash the social liberal within | Simon Jenkins



So we'll be OK because there will be more angels than before dancing on the head of this pin?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2019)

Boris Johnson announces plans for spending spree in north

One might think from the title that Boris Johnson had announced that he would go on a spending spree in the north of England (and probably been suspicious that that was a lie). It's not even that. It's not even "we've been told by sources that they are going to spend a load of money".



> However, more radical plans are also being looked at in the wake of the Conservative victory. It is understood that the party considered pledging more in infrastructure spending during the campaign, but ultimately opted to be cautious. However, some insiders now want the plans to be re-examined as a way of fulfilling Johnson’s pledge to new voters in the Midlands and the north to remodel his party. The Conservative manifesto stated that its fiscal rules meant approximately £80bn was available in additional capital spending, not all of which has yet been allocated.



Literally nothing that Boris Johnson is quoted saying here backs up the subtitle "PM is pondering using an £80bn fund for infrastructure spending in areas that helped seal Tory win", as vague and meaningless as that would be anyway.


----------



## Poi E (Dec 15, 2019)

If the rich are getting richer, then where are they hiding it? | Torsten Bell

We don't know where they're hiding it because they're hiding it.

Torsten never won hide and seek.


----------



## gosub (Dec 16, 2019)

We must learn to talk to leave voters without falling into the Clinton trap | Nesrine Malik


Might be another month or so before it finally fucking sinks in who the 'left behind' are


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 16, 2019)

Guardian writers should be banned from going to working men's clubs. They would then find it basically impossible to write any articles about areas in the north of England, but perhaps that's for the best.

In Blair’s old seat, the regulars agree: ‘Corbyn doesn’t understand us here’


----------



## killer b (Dec 16, 2019)

the north of england is just one massive working mens club, since they closed the pits down. meat bingo and john smiths smooth and cracked formica as far as the eye can see in every direction.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 16, 2019)

You should focus on the UK outside of London and the SE more.

Press: Ok, here's Terry and wor Stanley playing skittles while chain smoking and eating meat pies. In a betting shop. What do you think of communism lads

Fucks sake


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 16, 2019)

It's all Momentum's fault of course.


----------



## treelover (Dec 16, 2019)

gosub said:


> We must learn to talk to leave voters without falling into the Clinton trap | Nesrine Malik
> 
> 
> Might be another month or so before it finally fucking sinks in who the 'left behind' are



who are they, iyo, genuine q.


----------



## treelover (Dec 16, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Guardian writers should be banned from going to working men's clubs. They would then find it basically impossible to write any articles about areas in the north of England, but perhaps that's for the best.
> 
> In Blair’s old seat, the regulars agree: ‘Corbyn doesn’t understand us here’



are you including John Harris, Aditya?


----------



## gosub (Dec 16, 2019)

treelover said:


> who are they, iyo, genuine q.



The ones still fighting a political battle that was decided two and a half years ago. Chances are now, Brexit will be irreversible before either Labour and Lib Dems have decided their new leaders


----------



## fieryjack (Dec 22, 2019)

three classic opinion articles greeting my hungover eyes this morning:
"The next leadership team needs to recognise the fundamental errors that made Labour unelectable" by Bonnie Prince David Milliband

"Labour has no hope of rebuilding unless it breaks the cold grip of the hard left", sub-headed "After the crushing election defeat, it is not just Jeremy Corbyn who has to go. It must mean the end of Corbynism" by arch-toad Andrew Rawnsley 

and finally a piece targeted at Rebecca Long-Bailey by I-thought-he-was-dead Roy Hattersley "We fought Militant in the 1980s. The far left’s hold is now much worse"

could there be a theme here etc etc


----------



## planetgeli (Dec 22, 2019)

Can’t even produce the traditional Christmas crossword the weekend before Christmas.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 22, 2019)

fieryjack said:


> three classic opinion articles greeting my hungover eyes this morning:
> "The next leadership team needs to recognise the fundamental errors that made Labour unelectable" by Bonnie Prince David Milliband
> 
> "Labour has no hope of rebuilding unless it breaks the cold grip of the hard left", sub-headed "After the crushing election defeat, it is not just Jeremy Corbyn who has to go. It must mean the end of Corbynism" by arch-toad Andrew Rawnsley
> ...



Well, Owen Jones tries his best, but even he has to admit it wasn't a stunning victory for Labour, unlike '17

"The victory lap that followed the 2017 election was a mistake, breeding fatal complacency."

Brexit and self-inflicted errors buried Labour this election | Owen Jones

I think Momentum is, probably wisely, keeping its head down. One of the articles above conceded that Long-Bailey hasn't tweeted anything since before the election. Corbyn is determined to make the leadership selection as painful as possible by refusing to accept he's a liability or by doing the decent thing by resigning properly.

Let's just hope the 2025 election gets enough capable MPs elected to form a viable government in 2030.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 22, 2019)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Well, Owen Jones tries his best, but even he has to admit it wasn't a stunning victory for Labour, unlike '17
> 
> "The victory lap that followed the 2017 election was a mistake, breeding fatal complacency."
> 
> ...



Maybe Seumas Milne will be back to explain himself....or will JC elevate him to the Lords?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 22, 2019)

fieryjack said:


> three classic opinion articles greeting my hungover eyes this morning:
> "The next leadership team needs to recognise the fundamental errors that made Labour unelectable" by Bonnie Prince David Milliband
> 
> "Labour has no hope of rebuilding unless it breaks the cold grip of the hard left", sub-headed "After the crushing election defeat, it is not just Jeremy Corbyn who has to go. It must mean the end of Corbynism" by arch-toad Andrew Rawnsley
> ...


Particularly liked Milliband's article as he literally says that Corbyn made people support Brexit.


> Labour literally repelled voters in 2019. “Out of touch” does not capture the full awfulness. Voters were all too in touch with what the Labour leadership stood for. Incredible promises were all too well understood. So was the unctuous sectarianism of the leadership clique. Together they came to be seen as more of a risk to the country than Brexit – even though every study shows that it will cost the poorest communities the most.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 22, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Particularly liked Milliband's article as he literally says that Corbyn made people support Brexit.


The Miliband comment is interesting. He's referring to liberal/remain tories that stayed tory instead of switching to labour because they fear corbyn more than brexit. Which is true tbf, but it shows how one eyed the view of his ilk is - the 50+% who want to leave are a lost cause


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 22, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> The Miliband comment is interesting. He's referring to liberal/remain tories that stayed tory instead of switching to labour because they fear corbyn more than brexit. Which is true tbf, but it shows how one eyed the view of his ilk is - the 50+% who want to leave are a lost cause


Not quite sure about that, given that he talks about "the poorest communities", which I took to be referring to the famous Labour Heartlands - but that interpretation would make it even more barking, given that the number of remain Tories who would ever vote Labour is basically "ones who ticked the wrong box".


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 22, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not quite sure about that, given that he talks about "the poorest communities", which I took to be referring to the famous Labour Heartlands - but that interpretation would make it even more barking, given that the number of remain Tories who would ever vote Labour is basically "ones who ticked the wrong box".


Yeah but he means some make believe pro remain working class who voted tory despite brexit because corbyn


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 22, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah but he means some make believe pro remain working class who voted tory despite brexit because corbyn


All these new levels of bullshit that I hadn't even considered. Wonderful how the Guardian is expanding my mind. (Well technically it's the Observer today, which is their excuse for going massively right wing every Sunday.)


----------



## Indeliblelink (Dec 23, 2019)

Got this just now when trying to read something. You only have to click the Not Now to dismiss it.
A sign that in the future they're going to make registering compulsory for reading some articles?


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 23, 2019)

Indeliblelink said:


> Got this just now when trying to read something. You only have to click the Not Now to dismiss it.
> A sign that in the future they're going to make registering compulsory for reading some articles?
> View attachment 193857


press "not now" and it goes away


----------



## stavros (Dec 23, 2019)

Indeliblelink said:


> Got this just now when trying to read something. You only have to click the Not Now to dismiss it.
> A sign that in the future they're going to make registering compulsory for reading some articles?
> View attachment 193857



From what I've read they're haemorrhaging money, which I think is the case for most of printed press. At a guess I'd reckon the only paper website that might make any profit would be the Mail, with its sidebar of shame. The FT might as well, although that's a specialist paper.

Does anyone know how the Times and Telegraph have got on financially since introducing paywalls?


----------



## mauvais (Dec 23, 2019)

I think the Graun is breaking even again these days - "remarkable turnaround" and all that.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 23, 2019)

Also you lot missed this gem:

2019 wasn't global protests and Fleabag: it was the year a climate truth bomb dropped | Brigid Delaney


> 2019 is the year of suddenly. Many of us were shaken awake from our cognitive dissonance this year as our weather patterns and climate conditions become ever more extreme. When wine turns to ash in your mouth, you can’t deny the new reality anymore.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Dec 23, 2019)

I used to buy it most days but as it became more middle class blairite wank fest i felt less inclined to buy especially as buying got you nothing more than was on the web site. Now I use it with privacy blocker in place.


----------



## Sue (Dec 26, 2019)

Posted (whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation) because the headline made me .

Prominent lawyer Jolyon Maugham clubs fox to death while wearing kimono


----------



## emanymton (Dec 27, 2019)

Sue said:


> Posted (whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation) because the headline made me .
> 
> Prominent lawyer Jolyon Maugham clubs fox to death while wearing kimono


I am trying to work out why 'man kills fox' is worthy of the national press. I imagine it is purely because it was talked about on Twitter.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2019)

emanymton said:


> I am trying to work out why 'man kills fox' is worthy of the national press. I imagine it is purely because it was talked about on Twitter.


More like the Boxing Day news desert...obvs not enough tragic house fires this year.


----------



## Sue (Dec 27, 2019)

emanymton said:


> I am trying to work out why 'man kills fox' is worthy of the national press. I imagine it is purely because it was talked about on Twitter.


Think it's the kimono tbh...


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2019)

If it had been an M&S bathrobe he could have done a whole petting zoo and it wouldn't have made the local freesheet.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2019)

its because he gained prominence with a load of one weird tricks in court to stop brexit.


----------



## rekil (Dec 27, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Also you lot missed this gem:
> 
> 2019 wasn't global protests and Fleabag: it was the year a climate truth bomb dropped | Brigid Delaney


Delaney is a distillation of every stream of bourgeois vapidity.

I'm supposed to be a mentor but I am jealous of his perfect chakras | Brigid Delaney



> Doshas are the three energies that define every person’s makeup and, according to ayurvedic medicine, everyone has a dominant one.
> 
> “You cannot leave India without trying the region’s traditional medicine! You need to discover your dosha before you depart,” I advised. And because I was Safi’s mentor in Sydney, he took me seriously.





> On the internet I found an ayurvedic healer, Annie, who advised us that the first step was to get our chakras in order. I went first. Annie scanned my chakras by moving her hands about 4cm away from my (clothed) body. The reading took a lot out of her. She huffed and strained and panted above me. I was very depleted, she said. My levels were all over the place. “There’s fear there, and rejection.” My personal vibe was low.
> 
> Automatically, I ran a mental program through all the fear and rejection I had experienced in my life, an unpleasant process no doubt further damaging my chakras.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 27, 2019)

brogdale said:


> More like the Boxing Day news desert...obvs not enough tragic house fires this year.


Thing is if it wasn't for Twitter it would not have even been on their radar.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 27, 2019)

emanymton said:


> Thing is if it wasn't for Twitter it would not have even been on their radar.


Like a good deal of their "journalistic" output.


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 27, 2019)

Giving Watson a front page to complain about Labour becoming too internally brutal ... got to hand it to the man, he's one shameless fucker.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 27, 2019)

Rob Ray said:


> Giving Watson a front page to complain about Labour becoming too internally brutal ... got to hand it to the man, he's one shameless fucker.
> 
> View attachment 194302


Fair play to him really, the smelliest person in the room complaining about the bad odour, fair fucks.

Sub-header also intriguing. Admits. Absolutely shocking admission, a bolt from the blue that.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 4, 2020)




----------



## eatmorecheese (Jan 4, 2020)

Missed this one:

Community spirit helped turn our coach house into a haven for a refugee family

Not taking away from what they did, but this is peak middle class Guardian. I enjoyed the line about the Aga


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 4, 2020)

We’re nearly all vegan now. But let’s still honour the original radicals | Barbara Ellen
					

For people such as sacked charity worker Jordi Casamitjana, veganism is a real belief, not a diet fad




					www.theguardian.com
				




1% = nearly all in Guardian-land


----------



## two sheds (Jan 7, 2020)

A month of meaningful conversation: my quest to befriend a new person every day
					

Chatty cafes, benches, badges – there are countless schemes encouraging us to talk to strangers and escape loneliness. But do any of them really work? I spent 30 days finding out




					www.theguardian.com
				






> my quest to befriend a new person every day



no, just fuck off


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jan 8, 2020)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 8, 2020)




----------



## gosub (Jan 13, 2020)

Why is Gwyneth Paltrow selling a candle that smells like her vagina?
					

Gwyneth has made a candle called This Smells Like My Vagina for her website, Goop. And, of course, it has sold out




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Poi E (Jan 14, 2020)

Grief over death of Young Liberal Wilson Gavin after drag queen protest
					

President of University of Queensland’s Liberal National Club, who was a staunch conservative and gay, died a day after disrupting a library storytime event




					www.theguardian.com
				




This guy and his mates stormed into and disrupted a children's story reading, held by some people in drag, leaving kids in tears. Grief? Nah.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2020)

gosub said:


> Why is Gwyneth Paltrow selling a candle that smells like her vagina?
> 
> 
> Gwyneth has made a candle called This Smells Like My Vagina for her website, Goop. And, of course, it has sold out
> ...


gp has become increasingly loopy over the years. maybe she's a canny businesswoman. but she's a fucking 'loon.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 14, 2020)

gosub said:


> Why is Gwyneth Paltrow selling a candle that smells like her vagina?
> 
> 
> Gwyneth has made a candle called This Smells Like My Vagina for her website, Goop. And, of course, it has sold out
> ...



I have questions as to how they designed the olfactory essence.


Did they do samples or did Gwyneth tell them what to go for?


----------



## gosub (Jan 14, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> I have questions as to how they designed the olfactory essence.
> 
> 
> Did they do samples or did Gwyneth tell them what to go for?


I  neither know nor care just hope they start turning up at Coldplay gigs


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 14, 2020)

Finally we are there...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 14, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Finally we are there...
> 
> View attachment 195763



We've had this already. Just click 'not now' in lieu of a 'not now, not ever' button.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 14, 2020)

My point was it's taken a while for it to be rolled out for me


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 15, 2020)




----------



## kabbes (Jan 15, 2020)

What’s wrong with that?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 15, 2020)

kabbes said:


> What’s wrong with that?



I think the headline just winds me right up for some reason.

Otherwise I do sympathise with just how fucked up we’ve made certain species


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 16, 2020)

professor david nutt, employed by imperial college london, is apparently a former scientist









						Share a pint or glass of wine between three to drink safely, says expert
					

Former government advisor David Nutt says alcohol is more damaging than harder drugs




					www.theguardian.com
				




there really should be a fact check button by each guardian article but it would be so frequently used they'd abolish it


----------



## JimW (Jan 16, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> professor david nutt, employed by imperial college london, is apparently a former scientist
> View attachment 195893
> 
> 
> ...


Heard his scientific method went to pot.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 16, 2020)

JimW said:


> Heard his scientific method went to pot.


----------



## rekil (Jan 18, 2020)

I remember this wally.



oh ffs


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 19, 2020)

She's back! Bit of Rusbridger pimpery here:


_Confessions of an accidental influencer_


----------



## teqniq (Jan 25, 2020)




----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2020)

I don't know how we missed this.









						Follow us inside Rebecca Long Bailey and Angela Rayner’s flat share, where something’s certainly brewing | Catherine Bennett
					

It’s no ordinary domestic drama as secret tapes reveal all about the race to replace Jeremy Corbyn




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## brogdale (Jan 27, 2020)

killer b said:


> I don't know how we missed this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Paid to write this stuff.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 27, 2020)

I was going to write a post about how middle class guardian types are so uncomfortable with working classness undermining their progressive liberalism and sense of worthiness that they just refuse to believe any of it is real but what's the fucking point. I hate that this shit puts people in position of almost defending dickhead labour MP's when fuck them all


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 27, 2020)

A real life editor said good idea and then thought the follow up content was also good.


----------



## cantsin (Jan 27, 2020)

killer b said:


> I don't know how we missed this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



catherine bennett lost her marbles yday, this drivel, and the ' RLB is no feminist, Keir is ' piece, which it turned out she'd nicked from elsewhere - got loads of stick and deleted her twitter account


----------



## YouSir (Jan 27, 2020)

cantsin said:


> catherine bennett lost her marbles yday, this drivel, and the ' RLB is no feminist, Keir is ' piece, which it turned out she'd nicked from elsewhere - got loads of stick and deleted her twitter account



When you say 'nicked from elsewhere' do you mean 'was convinced it had already been done by a parody from the Trevor Bastard Universe'? Which just makes the overreaction of deleting her account all that much more joyously absurd really.


----------



## cantsin (Jan 27, 2020)

YouSir said:


> When you say 'nicked from elsewhere' do you mean 'was convinced it had already been done by a parody from the Trevor Bastard Universe'? Which just makes the overreaction of deleting her account all that much more joyously absurd really.



ah, that explains it all ! ( same as Streatham FC / Nick Hedges etc ?)


----------



## YouSir (Jan 27, 2020)

cantsin said:


> ah, that explains it all ! ( same as Streatham FC / Nick Hedges etc ?)



Yep, very same. She was threatened with legal action from an imaginary lawyer because she'd 'copied' an article by an imaginary doctor.


----------



## cantsin (Jan 27, 2020)

YouSir said:


> Yep, very same. She was threatened with legal action from an imaginary lawyer because she'd 'copied' an article by an imaginary doctor.



ffs....


----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2020)

cantsin said:


> deleted her twitter account


even a stopped clock etc etc


----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2020)

I'm surprised you haven't encountered Dr Robert Zands btw cantsin - he's pretty much the only thing I miss from politics twitter


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2020)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 196651


and with the bbc it's a dystopian dystopia


----------



## oryx (Jan 27, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Paid to write this stuff.


I read about a third of that and literally could not bear to read any further.

How do people like that hold down jobs in national newspapers?


----------



## cantsin (Jan 27, 2020)

killer b said:


> I'm surprised you haven't encountered Dr Robert Zands btw cantsin - he's pretty much the only thing I miss from politics twitter



me too tbh


----------



## 8ball (Jan 27, 2020)

Artaxerxes said:


> I think the headline just winds me right up for some reason.



Who needs the right wing, eh?


----------



## scifisam (Jan 27, 2020)

killer b said:


> I don't know how we missed this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What the hell is that? It reads like someone on twitter making something up, having never met a working class woman ever, or even a woman, or possibly even a real person at all. Or words. Or anything remotely resembling humanity. A bot could do better.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 27, 2020)

Rejected by the Radio 4 comedy department as "a bit too weak for us".


----------



## belboid (Jan 27, 2020)

It’s not entirely worthless. It just taught me Seumas spells his name like that, not Seamus.


----------



## The Pale King (Jan 28, 2020)

killer b said:


> I don't know how we missed this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is jaw-droppingly shite, and one of these things that says nothing whatsoever about the people written about, but says everything about the writer.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 28, 2020)

It’s the worst thing I’ve ever read and I read the first page of 50 Shades of Grey


----------



## rekil (Jan 31, 2020)

No politics please, we're Oscar contenders
					

This season’s awards movies demonstrate that cinema is dodging today’s pressing issues in favour of anodyne distraction




					www.theguardian.com
				



 This could have been readable but it's obvious where it's headed from the For Sama bit on.   



> Bait is a thoroughly impressive portrait of authentic social strife but, unless you are Cornish, you don’t have to take sides.





> Bombshell dares to open the lid on harassment in the workplace. Yet Harvey Weinstein no longer poses a threat: he is on trial. #MeToo no longer needs to be promoted; perhaps it is instead time to interrogate the phenomenon.



He gets there in the end. Fillums aren't reactionary enough. 


> Perhaps the explanation lies in the new McCarthyism that has seized the film world. To address controversial questions, you have to be prepared to challenge the prevailing orthodoxy. Nowadays, however, all must pledge allegiance to the implacable dictates of the progressive creed.



Conveniently, there is no mention of the fantastic Honeyland.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 31, 2020)

rekil said:


> No politics please, we're Oscar contenders
> 
> 
> This season’s awards movies demonstrate that cinema is dodging today’s pressing issues in favour of anodyne distraction
> ...


His review of Hereditary should really be read alongside this


----------



## rekil (Jan 31, 2020)

He doesn't do much so I hadn't noticed him before. What a shithead.


----------



## scifisam (Feb 1, 2020)

rekil said:


> No politics please, we're Oscar contenders
> 
> 
> This season’s awards movies demonstrate that cinema is dodging today’s pressing issues in favour of anodyne distraction
> ...



Jesus Christ - did they accidentally publish an article from the Mail? 

Highlights:




> Little Women, Wild Rose, Frozen II and Judy are keen to assure you that women are full-blooded, feisty achievers, and not the weedy sissies you may have thought them. Harriet brings us the news that this is even more the case if they are women of colour. OK, but didn’t we get the memo on this a while back? Bombshell dares to open the lid on harassment in the workplace. Yet Harvey Weinstein no longer poses a threat: he is on trial. #MeToo no longer needs to be promoted; perhaps it is instead time to interrogate the phenomenon.





> Whether the Chinese are like westerners or different from them is a key question of our time. Are we all the same under the skin, aspiring to live the same kind of lives?





> Perhaps the explanation lies in the new McCarthyism that has seized the film world. To address controversial questions, you have to be prepared to challenge the prevailing orthodoxy. Nowadays, however, all must pledge allegiance to the implacable dictates of the progressive creed.



PC gone mad!!!!

And from everything he writes, there's tons of politics in the Oscar nominated movies. It's just not the type of politics that he approves of. It's also not idpol, as he implies, just because a few movies that have women in them have been nominated.

He even phrases his praise for Juno as if the award for best original screenplay Oscar for Juno to the director, who was male, rather than the woman who actually wrote the screenplay and won the award. And he suggests that Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri wouldn't do well today. Unlike that long-ago time of two years ago.


----------



## yield (Feb 1, 2020)

Since Gary Younge left it's useless


----------



## Flavour (Feb 3, 2020)

Why liberal white women pay a lot of money to learn over dinner how they're racist
					

A growing number of women are paying to confront their privilege – and racism – at dinners that cost $2,500




					www.theguardian.com
				





"This is Race to Dinner. A white woman volunteers to host a dinner in her home for seven other white women – often strangers, perhaps acquaintances. (Each dinner costs $2,500, which can be covered by a generous host or divided among guests.) A frank discussion is led by co-founders Regina Jackson, who is black, and Saira Rao, who identifies as Indian American. They started Race to Dinner to challenge liberal white women to accept their racism, however subconscious. “If you did this in a conference room, they’d leave,” Rao says. “But wealthy white women have been taught never to leave the dinner table.”

Rao and Jackson believe white, liberal women are the most receptive audience because they are open to changing their behavior. They don’t bother with the 53% of white women who voted for Trump. White men, they feel, are similarly a lost cause. “White men are never going to change anything. If they were, they would have done it by now,” Jackson says."

Bizarre and shit, as urban once defined EastEnders


----------



## scifisam (Feb 7, 2020)

The Guardian is pandering to right wingers in a more shameless way than usual: 









						Prince William's Baftas tirade was insultingly misdirected – he should resign as its president | David Cox
					

Is the Duke of Cambridge sabotaging the voting system? Or simply saving face by attacking an acceptable – if innocent – party?




					www.theguardian.com
				




Every excuse possible for the BAFTAs and the film industry in general not nominating people who aren't rich white men. Yeah, it's sort of id pol, but this is a real problem that shouldn't be lumped in with it. 

Plus a call for Prince William to resign for mentioning it. The writer clarifies that he doesn't mean that he thinks William should resign from being heir to the throne, but that's kinda like starting an argument with I'm not racist but. 

Prince fucking William is more left wing than a Guardian writer.


----------



## rekil (Feb 7, 2020)

scifisam said:


> The Guardian is pandering to right wingers in a more shameless way than usual:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's the same freak.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 7, 2020)

Ha, I used to work with David Cox - he used to work for Film 4. Never talked diversity with him though.


----------



## marty21 (Feb 7, 2020)

When this thread started (10 years ago!) I bought the Guardian everyday and the Observer on a Sunday, some days I bought 2 newspapers (Independent or Times was often a second purchase). I stopped buying daily papers years ago, I look at the website, and maybe buy the paper 20 times a year if that (usually when I'm on holiday).  I don't subscribe to any newspaper websites - I look at the Guardian website, and might click on an Indy link . I can't understand why newspapers are still being printed tbh - people younger than me won't be buying papers, and people older than me may still be but they are nearing retirement or retired or dead .


----------



## Celyn (Feb 7, 2020)

Isn't it worth looking at newspaper websites in order to see what other people are thinking? (Or what the papers want their readers to think?)


----------



## flypanam (Feb 7, 2020)

Celyn said:


> Isn't it worth looking at newspaper websites in order to see what other people are thinking? (Or what the papers want their readers to think?)



Off topic 
Your local library probably subscribes to PressReader where you can access as many daily papers as you want with no paywall or subscription. Just your library card number.


----------



## Celyn (Feb 7, 2020)

Or Proquest.

Actually, I should change all my passwords to my library card number, as I seem to remember it better than the ones I make up.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 7, 2020)

Celyn said:


> Isn't it worth looking at newspaper websites in order to see what other people are thinking? (Or what the papers want their readers to think?)



Aren't our opinions enough for you?


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Feb 8, 2020)

Tisdall’s latest steaming pile of ordo-liberal ordure, dutifully deposited in the rotting corpse of British liberal journalism that is the Graun ... 









						Emmanuel Macron, pilloried at home and abroad, is Europe’s best hope
					

As nations around the world fall to populist leaders, France’s president is busy seeking a lonely mandate




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## brogdale (Feb 8, 2020)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Tisdall’s latest steaming pile of ordo-liberal ordure, dutifully deposited in the rotting corpse of British liberal journalism that is the Graun ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nicely worded.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 9, 2020)

What next; swarm?


----------



## agricola (Feb 16, 2020)

Politicians should stop bashing the rich… most of us just don’t agree | Sonia Sodha
					

New research shows that overhauling the tax system rather than attacking the wealthy plays better with voters




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2020)

marty21 said:


> When this thread started (10 years ago!) I bought the Guardian everyday and the Observer on a Sunday, some days I bought 2 newspapers (Independent or Times was often a second purchase). I stopped buying daily papers years ago, I look at the website, and maybe buy the paper 20 times a year if that (usually when I'm on holiday).  I don't subscribe to any newspaper websites - I look at the Guardian website, and might click on an Indy link . I can't understand why newspapers are still being printed tbh - people younger than me won't be buying papers, and people older than me may still be but they are nearing retirement or retired or dead .



I got a smart phone in 2010 and I haven't bought a single newspaper since. Can't imagine spending £2 on a sunday paper, can get a book for that, madness


----------



## kabbes (Feb 16, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I got a smart phone in 2010 and I haven't bought a single newspaper since. Can't imagine spending £2 on a sunday paper, can get a book for that, madness


I often get the Saturday Times for the jumbo cryptic and prize cryptic double-bill


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2020)

kabbes said:


> I often get the Saturday Times for the jumbo cryptic and prize cryptic double-bill



Surely there is a crossword app these days


----------



## kabbes (Feb 16, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Surely there is a crossword app these days


Writing a good cryptic is an art.  There are few good ones.  The Guardian ones you can do online for free and they do me during the week.  But at the weekend, I find it more satisfying the do it with a pen and paper.  The experience is worth £2 for me — a relatively cheap vice really!


----------



## two sheds (Feb 16, 2020)

Did always enjoy the routine of taking the Observer to a cafe or pub of a Sunday and doing the crossword - like you say there's something satisfying doing it with pen and paper.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 16, 2020)

kabbes said:


> I often get the Saturday Times for the jumbo cryptic and prize cryptic double-bill


My dad, _who is blind_, gets 15+ newspapers a week to do the crosswords


----------



## elbows (Feb 17, 2020)

> Japanese officials have confirmed a further 99 people have been infected by the new coronavirus onboard the quarantined cruise ship Diamond Princess, bringing the total to 45.



 21m ago 12:40


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 17, 2020)

elbows said:


> > Japanese officials have confirmed a further 99 people have been infected by the new coronavirus onboard the quarantined cruise ship Diamond Princess, bringing the total to 45.
> 
> 
> 21m ago 12:40



I got 99 problems but a CiF pitch ain't one


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2020)

> The rector of Eyam, believing it his duty to spare neighbouring towns from infection, persuaded his parishioners to take the astonishingly self-sacrificing step of sealing themselves off from the world. They would live or they would die, but nobody would leave until the sickness had burned itself out. One mother is said to have buried six of her children, yet by staying must have saved countless other women from the same fate.





> It’s impossible to read the story of Eyam without wondering who on earth would be capable of such selflessness now. When it came to the crunch, how many of us would secretly have more in common with the local squire, who fled after the first few deaths and left his neighbours to their fate? Compared with 17th-century peasants, modern Britons simply aren’t enormously used to the idea of sacrifice for the supposed collective good.
> 
> So it’s lucky for us, then, that Covid-19 is nothing like the Black Death.











						Has Britain become too selfish to cope with coronavirus? | Gaby Hinsliff
					

Stopping the virus’s spread is about putting others first – but we all know what’s happened to vaccination levels, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff




					www.theguardian.com
				




From now on I might be tempted to imagine that if the Guardian writers had a fancy dress party, they might all turn up as the rector of Eyam. But then leave early as the squire.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 28, 2020)

elbows said:


> Has Britain become too selfish to cope with coronavirus? | Gaby Hinsliff
> 
> 
> Stopping the virus’s spread is about putting others first – but we all know what’s happened to vaccination levels, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff
> ...


For many in precarious "employment"faced with exposure to the virus, selflessness and sacrifice will be an inevitable function of their status.


----------



## D'wards (Feb 29, 2020)

You really have to watch The Guardian. If you know something about a situation then their biases are so evident to see.

Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are going through terrible court battles at the moment. 
They totally ignored the fact that Heard admitted on tape to beating him up, then mocking him for his response to the situation which was to leave the house when she gets violent. 
But did a full front page (internet) story on a text he'd sent to Paul Bettany saying "Let's burn amber" in regard to the situation. 

They really are no better than the Mail, yet they claim the moral high ground.

And it does lead me to conclude that they can't be trusted as your only news source.


----------



## stavros (Feb 29, 2020)

D'wards said:


> And it does lead me to conclude that they can't be trusted as your only news source.



I'd be interested to know if there are many people who only use them.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 29, 2020)

My mum pretty much gets her news exclusively from the guardian. My dad gets his from facebook.


----------



## killer b (Mar 4, 2020)

This from Suzanne Moore about Thurston Moore's new record shop in Stoke Newington contains this zinger:

_Perceptively, she tells me English people wouldn’t have done this. “There is something hopeful and generous that Americans have.” _

It's an independent record and magazine shop. She clearly has no idea about what the current state of play with small independent record and magazine shops is (they are fucking everywhere. Even Stockport), and hasn't bothered to find out. She's literally just walked to the shops and written a fucking article about it. 









						'It's hopeful and generous': Thurston Moore's experimental record shop
					

The Sonic Youth co-founder has set up a store in London, a haven for fans of Stockhausen, Luc Ferrari – and Norwegian black metal




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## belboid (Mar 4, 2020)

killer b said:


> This from Suzanne Moore about Thurston Moore's new record shop in Stoke Newington contains this zinger:
> 
> _Perceptively, she tells me English people wouldn’t have done this. “There is something hopeful and generous that Americans have.” _
> 
> ...


that is a brilliant piece.  Who knew record shops had visitors that were knowledgeable about music (and other stuff!)? And, to be fair, only two of the three record shops that opened in Sheffield in the last couple of years were set up by English people. The others a Scot.  I am glad I read the line 'Satanists are people too' though


----------



## killer b (Mar 4, 2020)

I'm interested in Thurston Moore's record shop tbf, and would like to read an article about it. Just not this one.


----------



## belboid (Mar 4, 2020)

Yeah, if I was nearby I'd definitely call in. And you could get an interesting piece about how such shops are (becoming?) 'community spaces' and need to do more than just sell records.  But it sure reads like SM hasn't been into one since she had to write a piece about High Fidelity.


----------



## killer b (Mar 4, 2020)

Fairly sure a number of niche record shops have opened, failed and closed again in Stoke Newington over the last few years without Suzanne Moore noticing. Probably too little american generosity going on there.


----------



## andysays (Mar 4, 2020)

killer b said:


> I'm interested in Thurston Moore's record shop tbf, and would like to read an article about it. Just not this one.


I actually drove down Stokey Church Street earlier today, though I didn't notice Thurston or his shop. 

Next time I'm passing I'll have to look out, and maybe even pop in


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 4, 2020)

Not the worst thing that Moore has written recently.

The piece in question:








						Women must have the right to organise. We will not be silenced | Suzanne Moore
					

The treatment of Selina Todd this weekend was a warning. We have to protect women’s sex-based rights, says Guardian columnist Suzanne Moore




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## brogdale (Mar 6, 2020)

Hindu as cow/bull?
Hmmm


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 7, 2020)

How did you all miss this zinger:












						Pete Buttigieg might be the most progressive candidate ever to run for president | Charles Kaiser
					

The former mayor of South Bend will not reach the White House – this time. His campaign was historic for all America




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## brogdale (Mar 9, 2020)




----------



## two sheds (Mar 9, 2020)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 201099



and with an old swine-flu picture too


----------



## D'wards (Mar 11, 2020)

Should the taxpayer continue to fund free school meals?
					

There are rumours that universal free meals for infants could be cut in tomorrow’s budget. The policy has divided opinion since its introduction in 2014




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## editor (Mar 11, 2020)

Rarely have I come across an article so powder-puff light and pointless as this one. And to think I used to buy this paper. 









						Meghan Trainor: ‘Magazines won’t airbrush me now – they don’t even hide my shapewear'
					

The pop star explains the evolution of her style, her no-airbrushing policy and the ensemble she wore to New York fashion week last year




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## tommers (Mar 11, 2020)

Hands off! Should orgies keep going in the age of coronavirus?









						Hands off! Sex parties and the spread of coronavirus
					

A sex-party promoter in the US is still planning to hold orgies in New York and Los Angeles. But sexual contact is an almost guaranteed method of catching the virus




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 11, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Should the taxpayer continue to fund free school meals?
> 
> 
> There are rumours that universal free meals for infants could be cut in tomorrow’s budget. The policy has divided opinion since its introduction in 2014
> ...



The academy chain CEO thinks education spending is going to the wrong places. Wonder what his take home pay is, and how many actual teachers it would pay for.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 12, 2020)

Guardian as _main-bar of shame

_


----------



## hot air baboon (Mar 12, 2020)




----------



## Serge Forward (Mar 12, 2020)

And should socialists have servants?


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 13, 2020)

Coronavirus lifestyles of the rich and famous

Just the lightest dusting of disapproval to take the edge off the big fat lump of envy underneath it. Like a dog shit with a cherry on top.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 13, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> Coronavirus lifestyles of the rich and famous
> 
> Just the lightest dusting of disapproval to take the edge off the big fat lump of envy underneath it. Like a dog shit with a cherry on top.


To be fair, it’s a pretty amusing article


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 17, 2020)

Work-from-home fashion: is a dressing gown and underpants the best option?
					

Some have claimed that you can dress ‘from the top up’ for conference calls – but far safer, and more cosy, are humble jogging bottoms




					www.theguardian.com
				




Working from home fashion. I've opted for a blanket with a hole cut in it for my head, stained with splatter from the endless bowls of lentil-based gruel on which I now subsist.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 18, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Work-from-home fashion: is a dressing gown and underpants the best option?
> 
> 
> Some have claimed that you can dress ‘from the top up’ for conference calls – but far safer, and more cosy, are humble jogging bottoms
> ...



I'm going with this for video calls


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 18, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> I'm going with this for video calls


Well, thanks to the virus a lot of people are a little hoarse


----------



## killer b (Mar 18, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Work-from-home fashion: is a dressing gown and underpants the best option?
> 
> 
> Some have claimed that you can dress ‘from the top up’ for conference calls – but far safer, and more cosy, are humble jogging bottoms
> ...


I made my first lentil-based gruel of the apocalypse season last night using a recipe from the guardian as it happens - it was delicious. 









						How to cook perfect dal
					

How highly does dal rank among your favourite comfort foods?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 18, 2020)

killer b said:


> I made my first lentil-based gruel of the apocalypse season last night using a recipe from the guardian as it happens - it was delicious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not reading a recipe for dhal written by someone called Felicity.


----------



## killer b (Mar 18, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm not reading a recipe for dhal written by someone called Felicity.


Like everyone else who works for the guardian she's incredibly posh, but her column is one of the few things of value the paper actually publishes.


----------



## rekil (Mar 18, 2020)

This. Is not helpful.









						'Sing across rooftops': Bono writes coronavirus song dedicated to Italy
					

Let Your Love Be Known, the U2 frontman’s first new music since 2017, was a St Patrick’s Day gift to quarantined Italians singing to each other from balconies




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## The Pale King (Mar 18, 2020)

rekil said:


> This. Is not helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haven't the Italians suffered enough?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 18, 2020)

Classic _Graun_:



> “There are people coughing in here. There aren’t paper masks. *We are getting unlimited paid time off*, but I still need to pay bills and rent. I can’t take that unpaid time off,” they said.
> 
> *Amazon said it has offered all warehouse workers unlimited unpaid time off* through the month of March, and announced last week workers diagnosed with coronavirus or placed into quarantine would receive up to two weeks of paid sick leave.











						'They don't care about safety': Amazon workers struggle with pandemic demand
					

Workers say hectic pace amid coronavirus outbreak is devastating for physical and mental health




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## rekil (Mar 18, 2020)




----------



## hash tag (Mar 21, 2020)

Why are they bothering with the expense of still publishing a sports section; there is no sport. Surely the little sport they have could easily, simply and cheaply incorporated into the main section


----------



## Serge Forward (Mar 21, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Why are they bothering with the expense of still publishing a sports section; there is no sport. Surely the little sport they have could easily, simply and cheaply incorporated into the main section


World solitaire championship?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 21, 2020)

Serge Forward said:


> World solitaire championship?


World dominos championship?


----------



## stavros (Mar 21, 2020)

Serge Forward said:


> World solitaire championship?





equationgirl said:


> World dominos championship?



Monkey tennis?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 21, 2020)




----------



## equationgirl (Mar 21, 2020)

stavros said:


> Monkey tennis?


Snail racing.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 21, 2020)

stavros said:


> Monkey tennis?


reality stranger than fiction








						Is Man vs Bear the weirdest TV show of the year?
					

In a staggering, strange new series, people take on actual bears in physical tasks and, quite predictably, lose




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## D'wards (Mar 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Snail racing.


I tried to make my racing snail lighter and more aerodynamic by removing his shell, but if anything it made him more sluggish. 

Yes, I'm quite aware where the crap joke thread is, thank you very much


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2020)

This is about as muddle-headed as you can get...

*Children of key workers not attending school, say teachers*​_Absence of pupils entitled to emergency schooling in England sparks safety fears_​​Vulnerable children entitled to a place in emergency school provision in England during the coronavirus outbreak failed to turn up on Monday, raising concerns among headteachers about their safety.​​School leaders worked frantically over the weekend, contacting parents to find out which pupils were in need of a place and to encourage families where possible to keep their children safe at home, amid complaints of a lack of clarity and leadership from central government.​​Their efforts appeared to have paid off on Monday morning, with some headteachers reporting that staff vastly outnumbered pupils – in one secondary school there were five teachers for every student so staff were sent home.​​There had been fears that schools providing a skeleton childcare service for children of key workers in the fight against Covid-19, as well as the most vulnerable pupils, would be inundated with students, but in the event some multi-academy trusts reported absence rates of up to 97%.​​“We are very grateful to parents,” said one school leader. “But we are really worried, particularly for our most vulnerable children. We are very concerned we are not seeing those children.” One trust said around four out of five children identified as vulnerable failed to attend...​








						Low attendance at scaled-down schools sparks fears for vulnerable pupils
					

Relief at lack of demand for skeleton service mixed with concern for some absentees




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## planetgeli (Mar 25, 2020)

Guardian live reporting 10.38am.

*Coronavirus experts tell MPs that NHS should not be able to cope with numbers.*

And the correction.

There was a mistake in the original headline where what should have been a "now" was turned into a "not". Sorry.


----------



## wayward bob (Mar 25, 2020)

i just came to post this


----------



## Indeliblelink (Mar 25, 2020)

Hasn't this been outed as fake? They only mention one incident which doesn't even sound like a mugging.
The only other thing I can find is an article in OK magazine.








						NHS staff warned to hide ID after spate of targeted muggings
					

Robbers targeting doctors and nurses to obtain free food offered for tackling coronavirus




					www.theguardian.com
				






			http://camdennewjournal.com/article/health-workers-reminded-to-remove-ids-after-work-following-reports-of-muggings
		



> It has been suggested criminals are “targeting” the hospital workers for IDs to shop in supermarkets during morning windows reserved specifically for NHS staff.
> The Met Police said today (Monday) they had had no official reports of the muggings but despite this they have contacted hospitals, including the Whittington, asking for information.



goes on to mention muggings yes, but phones being stolen not ID


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 25, 2020)

Indeliblelink said:


> Hasn't this been outed as fake? They only mention one incident which doesn't even sound like a mugging.
> The only other thing I can find is an article in OK magazine.
> 
> 
> ...


The Operations Manager here put out a message yesterday, but it just sounded like he was recycling unsubstantiated rumours, no suggestion there was any local evidence for it certainly:



> *STAFF VIGILENCE: It has been reported that NHS staff have been attacked for their ID badges, please all staff & encourage them NOT to WEAR badges outside of work.*


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 25, 2020)

We've also had that message from senior managers, which is odd, as they've been shit at talking to us generally. Makes me more likely to believe it's something unsubstantiated someone got off their WhatsApp tbh as it's come from them, not a forwarded government edict.


----------



## tommers (Mar 26, 2020)

Saved me a click.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 26, 2020)

tommers said:


> View attachment 203401
> 
> Saved me a click.


#notallmen


----------



## andysays (Mar 26, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> #notallmen


It's more #whataboutthemenz? surely...


----------



## Brainaddict (Mar 27, 2020)

For gods sake I wish they'd stop wanking over Rishi Sunak.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 27, 2020)

Anyone else notice the duplicated clue in the concise crossword today?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2020)

Brainaddict said:


> For gods sake I wish they'd stop wanking over Rishi Sunak.



First time I saw Rishi Sunak I thought, he looks like a cricket bat with ears. Now I can't unsee it. And neither can you.


----------



## Brainaddict (Mar 27, 2020)

I think there's something reminiscent of Blair in the way he speaks and that's part of the reason the Guardian crew find themselves irresistably drawn towards him.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Mar 28, 2020)

What will we possibly do?!









						How will the UK function with a sick prime minister?
					

Boris Johnson has contracted Covid-19 at a time when the country needs him most – but the UK has survived with incapacitated leaders before




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Cerv (Mar 28, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Anyone else notice the duplicated clue in the concise crossword today?


“Sound of thunder (4)” twice? but with two different answers that each couldn’t fit in each other’s crossing letters. so that’s legitimate


----------



## hash tag (Mar 28, 2020)

well spotted. Same clue twice though


----------



## Raheem (Mar 28, 2020)

hash tag said:


> Anyone else notice the duplicated clue in the concise crossword today?


That'll be a signal for a sleeper cell.


----------



## Raheem (Mar 28, 2020)

Brainaddict said:


> I think there's something reminiscent of Blair in the way he speaks and that's part of the reason the Guardian crew find themselves irresistably drawn towards him.


I find him quite reminiscent of Milliband the Younger.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 29, 2020)

Yes, Jeremy Corbyn is still here and he’s still right about everything | Barbara Ellen
					

It’s time for the Labour leader to exit gracefully, but there’s little chance of that




					www.theguardian.com
				




This but unironically.


----------



## oryx (Mar 29, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yes, Jeremy Corbyn is still here and he’s still right about everything | Barbara Ellen
> 
> 
> It’s time for the Labour leader to exit gracefully, but there’s little chance of that
> ...


That is class! (not).

Even worse is the cringingly unaware piece below it about working from home. Talk about a middle-class bubble, where everyone is an 'office worker' and can work from home.

I'd take working from home any day over getting up at six to pile onto a crowded train/bus etc. and work a long shift outdoors or similar.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 1, 2020)

Non-stop? I'm not surprised he had a heart attack.


----------



## hash tag (Apr 1, 2020)

Cerv said:


> “Sound of thunder (4)” twice? but with two different answers that each couldn’t fit in each other’s crossing letters. so that’s legitimate





Spoiler



gordon ramsey


----------



## Brainaddict (Apr 3, 2020)

Another entry for 'the guardian gushing over Tories on the flimsiest of grounds' Words I thought I'd never write: thank God for Matt Hancock | John Crace

He forgave some fictional debt that the government owed to itself! What a hero!!

Instead of: they should all be hung from lampposts for ever having pretended the NHS was in debt to the government.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Apr 6, 2020)

We can't raise a mortgage against our £1.25m home for our holiday let barn
					

We need £50,000 for a second bathroom but mention ‘holiday let’ and lenders just shy away




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 8, 2020)

Our new lockdown game: judging famous people by their bookshelves

They almost had me here - I love a deeks at other people's bookshelves, and I caught myself thinking I bet Kate Middleton hasn't read more than a quarter of those... but then, is this just the intellectual version of the old school tie?


----------



## Serge Forward (Apr 8, 2020)

This reminds me, Flann O'Brien did something on bookshelves and "bookhandling" Cruiskeen Lawn November 10th, 1941


----------



## scifisam (Apr 10, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> Our new lockdown game: judging famous people by their bookshelves
> 
> They almost had me here - I love a deeks at other people's bookshelves, and I caught myself thinking I bet Kate Middleton hasn't read more than a quarter of those... but then, is this just the intellectual version of the old school tie?



Raab's is amusing - he didn't have a home office already set up with political tomes on shelves to impress visitors? Poor planning! What a surprise...

The others may well be genuine. Rishi Sunak played a blinder by looking like a normal person working from home.

I'm not going to bother to look up Kate Middleton's A levels but, she got into a good uni based on her grades, and loads of people have read those classics - they're standard posh girl reading material but also what lots of non-posh people read. They might have had to hide Fifty Shades of Gray but that probably wasn't in her public office anyway.

My zoom chats with friends have mostly shown how their pets behave. Some of their cats are fucking enormous!


----------



## ska invita (Apr 14, 2020)

Guardian lead non-Corona headline on the website: the promotion of some lets cut pensions because response to C19 is "expensive" pure economic ideology paper from a random thinktank









						Coronavirus UK: call to scrap 'triple lock' on pensions after crisis
					

All generations should have to help pay for massive economic cost, says thinktank




					www.theguardian.com
				




though by making it their lead story i guess it gives a clue to the avalanche of "paying it back" austerity that will definitely be coming our way


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 14, 2020)

Why does Kate Middleton need an office?


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 14, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Guardian lead non-Corona headline on the website: the promotion of some lets cut pensions because response to C19 is "expensive" pure economic ideology paper from a random thinktank
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Will be popular with some posters on here I imgaine


----------



## Marty1 (Apr 14, 2020)

brogdale said:


> For many in precarious "employment"faced with exposure to the virus, selflessness and sacrifice will be an inevitable function of their status.
> 
> View attachment 200041



Drivers are meant to self report if they have a fever - Amazon are shortly introducing this to their delivery app before you take a route out. If you report that you have a temp over 37.5°C then you can’t work for 2 weeks (to self isolate) - and get zero pay.

I’m fine and think I may have already had coronavirus but it’s pretty clear to see that the possibility of drivers potentially not reporting any high temp they may have for fear of going broke.

Edit: on the plus side - a customer gave me an Easter egg on Saturday


----------



## two sheds (Apr 14, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Will be popular with some posters on here I imgaine



Well comparing pension to dole and sickness benefit for example I can understand why hitting pensions might be popular. Not that I want to see it done of course - they should be taxing the millionaires and particularly hedge funds who've made billions profiteering from all this.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 14, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Will be popular with some posters on here I imgaine


This sort of right-wing think-wankery is precisely why Labour need to be combative and proactive now. Unfortunately they are putting up tory apologists like Reeves & Kendall.


----------



## Cerv (Apr 14, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Guardian lead non-Corona headline on the website: the promotion of some lets cut pensions because response to C19 is "expensive" pure economic ideology paper from a random thinktank
> 
> 
> 
> ...


not even proposing a cut. just to remove the 2.5% floor on pension increases each year. so they would still increase by the higher of CPI inflation / average wage increase, but not more than that if both are below 2.5

a bit half arsed really for right wing economic wank really

and this exact replacement of the triple lock with a double lock was already proposed back when May & Hammond were in charge, but never went through.
interesting to see the idea rearing its head again. never let a good crisis go to waste I guess


----------



## brogdale (Apr 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> not even proposing a cut. just to remove the 2.5% floor on pension increases each year. so they would still increase by the higher of CPI inflation / average wage increase, but not more than that if both are below 2.5
> 
> a bit half arsed really for right wing economic wank really
> 
> ...


It's more the narrative of the rona giving the cunts a 'justification' for never ending austerity, really.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 14, 2020)

brogdale said:


> It's more the narrative of the rona giving the cunts a 'justification' for never ending austerity, really.


i'm told there is a video of boris johnson and dominic cummings dancing drunkenly in 10 downing street singing 'help me rona' to the tune of the the beach boys' help me rhonda, describing the things the current situation will let them get away with, and falling about laughing


----------



## Raheem (Apr 14, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why does Kate Middleton need an office?


In order to justify the cost of an office.


----------



## little_legs (Apr 29, 2020)

This has to be the worst thing I've seen today


----------



## 8115 (Apr 30, 2020)

little_legs said:


> This has to be the worst thing I've seen today


Yeah, I did think, The Telegraph has many vices, but at least this isn't one of them.


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 30, 2020)

little_legs said:


> This has to be the worst thing I've seen today


I bet they thought it was hysterical though.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 30, 2020)

little_legs said:


> This has to be the worst thing I've seen today



His shit eating grin makes it.


----------



## D'wards (May 2, 2020)

Why can I visit a DIY shop but not a museum? This total lockdown is failing









						Why can I visit a DIY shop but not a museum? This total lockdown is failing | Simon Jenkins
					

Let’s liberate the countryside, playgrounds and pub gardens, says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 2, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Why can I visit a DIY shop but not a museum? This total lockdown is failing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus that's a shit piece. I gave up after the 'it mainly kills old people' stuff. He thinks we should focus on 'areas where infection is most likely' which apparently doesn't include kids playgrounds fucks sake. Wetting himself he can't go to a museum for a couple of months, guardian cunt


----------



## AmateurAgitator (May 2, 2020)

Home schooling is tough, but parents are doing a fraction of teachers' jobs | Barbara Ellen
					






					www.theguardian.com
				




The tone and premise of this piece doesn't sit well with me. Both teaching and parenting is hard work and teachers are only working as hard as they are because of all the extra unnecessary shit they are getting from the government. Also, schools indoctrinate kids some of the time, it's not always great 'education'.


----------



## scifisam (May 2, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Why can I visit a DIY shop but not a museum? This total lockdown is failing
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I gave up when it got factually incorrect for the sake of making a point:



> Why are people trusted to “socially distance” in a DIY shop but not in a garden centre or a National Trust park? My local hardware store can sell from its front door, but not my local pub.



Most DIY shops are shut, and some garden centres are open. Pubs can sell from their front doors, it's just not economically viable for most of them to try to do so.


----------



## oryx (May 2, 2020)

He also seems to have missed that there are plenty of people who are not old - from teenagers to those in late middle age - who are dying.

Also that public transport and supermarkets are necessities, whereas museums and pub gardens are not.


----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2020)

> Johnson: doctors had a 'death of Stalin' scenario
> 
> Using characteristic language, Boris Johnson has described a strategy that evolved for a period of time around plans to announce his potential death from Covid-19 as a “death of Stalin-type scenario.”
> 
> It’s not entirely clear if he was taking his cue from Armando Iannucci’s (excellent) 2017 satire.



Or,  you know, the actual death of Stalin.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 3, 2020)

That seems to cover all bases


----------



## belboid (May 4, 2020)

Tim Bray was an Amazon vp till he quit over whistleblowing, and published a piece on his blog.  Then this happened.

Funnily enough the guardian piece has gone now


----------



## equationgirl (May 5, 2020)

Journalists nick stuff wholesale from blogs and websites shocker.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 5, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Journalists nick stuff wholesale from blogs and websites shocker.


Give it a day and there'll be 700 words on that very hypothesis up on CiF


----------



## Pickman's model (May 5, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Journalists nick stuff wholesale from blogs and websites shocker.


i said that to a journalist once and i've never had a darker look from anyone in my life


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 5, 2020)

He kind of should have known the answer to that you'd have thought, but no, publication on a commercial site like a newspaper when you have a CC NC licence is not legal.


----------



## Cerv (May 14, 2020)

Guardian's shutting down their online dating service. One less revenue stream to support the loss making newspaper side. But I guess it wasn't actually generating much support anymore anyway.

Did anyone ever use it? Must've been weird to know that you've been matched based on just you read the same news.









						Guardian Soulmates to close next month
					

The newspaper's dating site says the platform is "no longer viable".



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2020)

My brother met his long term partner on Guardian Soulmates, and had a few solid flings before meeting her too - this was years ago though, internet dating was still pretty new then. 

(The guardian isn't loss making anymore btw. Or it wasn't before the crisis - dunno what the situation is now.)


----------



## Raheem (May 14, 2020)

scifisam said:


> Pubs can sell from their front doors, it's just not economically viable for most of them to try to do so.


I've heard of this happening, but reckon it might not be technically legal for most of them, because pubs usually have licences for consumption on the premises only.


----------



## scifisam (May 14, 2020)

Raheem said:


> I've heard of this happening, but reckon it might not be technically legal for most of them, because pubs usually have licences for consumption on the premises only.



Yeah, but you'd hope plod would be reasonable about it, as long as the queue was socially distanced and all that.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> Guardian's shutting down their online dating service. One less revenue stream to support the loss making newspaper side. But I guess it wasn't actually generating much support anymore anyway.
> 
> Did anyone ever use it? Must've been weird to know that you've been matched based on just you read the same news.
> 
> ...


I think I tried it out at one point but was put off by the vast number of questions.

It does have quite a good reputation, and at least you are unlikely to get matched with an out and out Tory I suppose.


----------



## andysays (May 14, 2020)

Raheem said:


> I've heard of this happening, but reckon it might not be technically legal for most of them, because pubs usually have licences for consumption on the premises only.


The standard pub licence is (or used to be) for consumption on or off the premises (hence the expression 'off licence', where it's strictly off the premises).


----------



## JimW (May 14, 2020)

andysays said:


> The standard pub licence is (or used to be) for consumption on or off the premises (hence the expression 'off licence', where it's strictly off the premises).


I remember the old off sales window in a couple. Not sure if that was just to avoid a queue or if there's anything legal about it.


----------



## Raheem (May 14, 2020)

andysays said:


> The standard pub licence is (or used to be) for consumption on or off the premises (hence the expression 'off licence', where it's strictly off the premises).


Think it is only some pubs that have an on or off licence.


----------



## stavros (May 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> Guardian's shutting down their online dating service. One less revenue stream to support the loss making newspaper side. But I guess it wasn't actually generating much support anymore anyway.
> 
> Did anyone ever use it? Must've been weird to know that you've been matched based on just you read the same news.
> 
> ...



Damn. Off to the Telegraph version I go. Should be plenty of 30-something women there.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2020)

Cash from chaos
Work From Hope: buy a sustainable print and support the NHS









						Work From Hope: buy a sustainable print
					

The Guardian Print Shop is offering readers the chance to own an exclusive work to coincide with the third ‘Clap for Carers’ tribute, saluting NHS staff and other key workers dealing with the coronavirus pandemic




					www.theguardian.com
				




It is printed on 100% sustainable bamboo paper and available in two sizes, A5 & A3. Seventy per cent of the Guardian’s profits will be paid to NHS charities


----------



## planetgeli (May 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> Cash from chaos
> Work From Hope: buy a sustainable print and support the NHS
> 
> 
> ...



Wow that is super-shit. All their deputy creative director's own work apparently.


----------



## YouSir (May 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> Cash from chaos
> Work From Hope: buy a sustainable print and support the NHS
> 
> 
> ...



Stupidly over priced as well as being shit. Mad that I could do the same, cheaper and with 100% of profits to charity, shows what a scam it is.


----------



## frogwoman (May 15, 2020)

As Europe emerges from lockdown, the question hangs: was Sweden right? | Simon Jenkins
					

Stockholm gambled in its response to coronavirus, but neither its economy nor its healthcare system has collapsed, says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins




					www.theguardian.com
				




I know there's a debate about the long term effects of lockdown but this does gloss over a number of issues, not least the 3500+ deaths in Sweden :/


----------



## Orang Utan (May 15, 2020)

A friend, possibly ex-friend, met his wife through Soulmates and they’re Tory as fuck, weirdly


----------



## frogwoman (May 16, 2020)

Covid-19 hurts the most vulnerable – but so does lockdown. We need more nuanced debate | Joshua Craze and Carlo Invernizzi-Accetti
					

The class and racial consequences of this crisis mean we must think more carefully about how we ‘reopen’ the economy




					www.theguardian.com
				




This article is a bit muddled. I can't really understand what it's arguing .


----------



## frogwoman (May 16, 2020)

> Yet at this stage simply lifting the lockdown to get the economy going would do more harm than good. The lockdown has generated its own crisis. Immediately lifting the lockdown would risk exacerbating the damage already suffered by America’s poorest.





> Neither the Swedish nor South Korean models are possible in America today, and neither resolve the true crisis that the US faces, which is dealing with the disaster caused by the lockdown. Rather than insisting on staying at home, the left should argue for implementing an end to the lockdown that actually answers the demands of the workers striking at Amazon, Checkers, Instacart, and elsewhere for safe working conditions and worker’s rights.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (May 17, 2020)

Joe Wicks: 'I've got freakishly large big toes'
					

The fitness coach on his father’s addiction, his Beyoncé playlist and meeting his wife at a rave




					www.theguardian.com
				




Speaks for itself


----------



## AmateurAgitator (May 17, 2020)

Ahead of the curve: an eco dome by the sea
					

An architect’s striking home in a dome on the New Zealand coast is as visually interesting as it is groundbreaking




					www.theguardian.com
				




I'm so happy for them. Cunts.


----------



## scifisam (May 18, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> Joe Wicks: 'I've got freakishly large big toes'
> 
> 
> The fitness coach on his father’s addiction, his Beyoncé playlist and meeting his wife at a rave
> ...



What's wrong with it? For a short Q&A I thought it was pretty interesting.


----------



## Raheem (May 18, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> A friend, possibly ex-friend, met his wife through Soulmates and they’re Tory as fuck, weirdly


Think it used to be quite popular, pre-Tinder etc, as a dating site, not just an extension of The Guardian. I know a couple who met through it who are not Tories but not particularly Guardian readers.


----------



## scifisam (May 18, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Think it used to be quite popular, pre-Tinder etc, as a dating site, not just an extension of The Guardian. I know a couple who met through it who are not Tories but not particularly Guardian readers.



A friend of mine used to use that seriously sometimes, with some success, and sometimes would also post total piss-taking ads. She stopped when a couple of women were disappointed to meet a woman who was merely noticeably taller than average rather than an actual giantess who had to bend down to enter train stations.


----------



## Raheem (May 18, 2020)

Marley





scifisam said:


> A friend of mine used to use that seriously sometimes, with some success, and sometimes would also post total piss-taking ads. She stopped when a couple of women were disappointed to meet a woman who was merely noticeably taller than average rather than an actual giantess who had to bend down to enter train stations.


I'll assume that's a euphemism.


----------



## scifisam (May 18, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Marley
> I'll assume that's a euphemism.



Nope - might be a little bit of an odd euphemism for a lesbian. From what she said they were actual crazy people who were expecting a giant.

I once put up a joke photo of me wearing a gold face mask on Tindr and was amazed by how well it was received. You couldn't see my actual face or body, just me in a face mask I'd ordered (it was meant to be like a mud mask, you know, a spa type mask, but made me look like C3P0) and I thought was funny. Never responded to any of the messages because, well, it was a joke.

Then a friend explained that some of the people messaging me were probably latex fetishists. Oh. So naive.


----------



## Raheem (May 18, 2020)

(Don't know why my post said Marley)


----------



## Orang Utan (May 24, 2020)

Artisan chocolate should always be savoured
					

Make time for a Babs Cartland moment on the sofa, says Annalisa Barbieri




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## AmateurAgitator (May 24, 2020)

scifisam said:


> What's wrong with it? For a short Q&A I thought it was pretty interesting.


It's the heading of the piece more than anything


----------



## Celyn (May 25, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Artisan chocolate should always be savoured
> 
> 
> Make time for a Babs Cartland moment on the sofa, says Annalisa Barbieri
> ...


 "Before I started tasting chocolate for a living ..."
Good fucking grief.


----------



## Celyn (May 25, 2020)

Also, where might I apply for this job?


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 27, 2020)

'Babs Cartland'

_Boak_


----------



## stavros (Jun 11, 2020)

Does anyone else get a pop-up appear when they try to leave the Graun site, asking if you're sure you want to go? It seems to happen to me using IE, although not with Firefox and an ad-blocker.


----------



## agricola (Jun 14, 2020)

Carbon-neutral coffee comes to UK – via sail boat from Colombia to Cornwall
					

Yallah Coffee’s beans now arrive on a schooner. Has the prospect of wind-powered cargo finally landed?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## stavros (Jun 15, 2020)

stavros said:


> Does anyone else get a pop-up appear when they try to leave the Graun site, asking if you're sure you want to go? It seems to happen to me using IE, although not with Firefox and an ad-blocker.



It even now seems to do this when you click on a link to another part of the site. It's as if they're not familiar with the back button.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

This is the stoopidest and must Guardian film review I've seen









						I've never seen ... The Blues Brothers
					

This 40-year-old comedy – repackaging blues for a white audience – in many ways uncomfortably mirrors what is happening in the UK and America right now




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 17, 2020)

D'wards said:


> This is the stoopidest and must Guardian film review I've seen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I clicked on it and at first thought ‘When did Orang Utan get _that_ gig?!’


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 17, 2020)

D'wards said:


> This is the stoopidest and must Guardian film review I've seen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That seems pretty fair actually - it's been ages since I watched the film, but it's definitely a huge mess and nowhere near as funny as people claim it is.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That seems pretty fair actually - it's been ages since I watched the film, but it's definitely a huge mess and nowhere near as funny as people claim it is.


I disagree. It has great music,  great gags, great car chases. Landis is a genius and Belushi was a star.
I watch it at least once a year


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2020)

And the nun scene .....


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

two sheds said:


> And the nun scene .....


The way she delivers the damning verdict then slides backwards and the door slams by itself 😂


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 17, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That seems pretty fair actually - it's been ages since I watched the film, but it's definitely a huge mess and nowhere near as funny as people claim it is.


it's not a good film, despite some funny moments. fine when you're 18, but doesn't hold up well. and the article makes a good point about the cultural appropration


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> it's not a good film, despite some funny moments. fine when you're 18, but doesn't hold up well. and the article makes a good point about the cultural appropration


Cultural appropriation is such a trite observation when the case in point is done with care, skill and reverence, as the Blues Brothers clearly is.
You will hear very few black people complaining that Eminem has appropriated black culture and certainly no other rappers


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 17, 2020)

The only really badly aged bit is Belushi offering money for the women and children.

But even then it’s explicity him taking the piss out of what would be called a male Karen these days  and indulging in class war.

The film was never really about the gags I think, it’s clearly an excuse to play the blues


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

In the article it states they drive a car at anti fascist protesters. This is such a guardianista willful manipulation of the facts to serve a point. 
They drive their car at fucking nazis causing them to jump off the bridge.

How can any music fan be unmoved by this performance


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> it's not a good film, despite some funny moments. fine when you're 18, but doesn't hold up well. and the article makes a good point about the cultural appropration


which bit is that?

I'd agree with animal house not holding up well - has a few iffy scenes - but Belushi is a joy (in both of them tbh).


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

two sheds said:


> which bit is that?
> 
> I'd agree with animal house not holding up well - has a few iffy scenes - but Belushi is a joy (in both of them tbh).


I wonder what Ghostbusters would have been like if he had not got too "hopped up on goofballs" and checked out


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2020)

watchable perhaps


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 17, 2020)

two sheds said:


> which bit is that?
> 
> I'd agree with animal house not holding up well - has a few iffy scenes - but Belushi is a joy (in both of them tbh).


The whole thing


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

two sheds said:


> which bit is that?
> 
> I'd agree with animal house not holding up well - has a few iffy scenes - but Belushi is a joy (in both of them tbh).


Animal House and I think Weird Science both have dodgy scenes when our hapless white heroes stumble into a black bar and shit themselves.

I'm sure other 80s films have it too - well in Vacation they stumble into a black neighbourhood and shit themselves.

"Hey can you tell me how to get back on the freeway?
"Yo fuck yo mamma"
"Thank you very much"


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> The whole thing



what, the hats and the suits and the nun and all the music type things?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 17, 2020)

two sheds said:


> what, the hats and the suits and the nun and all the music type things?


Have you read the article?


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2020)

ah no, just going from my memory of the film, will take a look


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2020)

seems overly cynical to me. I'd perhaps listen if it was a black writer saying it was cultural appropriation. White Guardian writer taking exception though, not really convinced. Bit of cultural appropriation on his part perhaps  .


----------



## D'wards (Jun 17, 2020)

two sheds said:


> seems overly cynical to me. I'd perhaps listen if it was a black writer saying it was cultural appropriation. White Guardian writer taking exception though, not really convinced. Bit of cultural appropriation on his part perhaps  .


Even then it would be a hard sell. The Blues Brothers is packed with black artists doing performances of their own songs.
The Blues Brothers only do four and a bit songs, and two of those are Stand By Your Man and the Rawhide theme , and the bit being the intro to Gimme Some Lovin by the Spencer Davis Group


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 17, 2020)

Animal House is really dubious, rapey and has aged badly.

Still love The Blues Brothers, you could drive a car through the amount of wrongness in the article.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2020)

Yes as you say with Animal House. Would be a good film without all that. Short, but a good film. 

Of that era I tried several times to download American Graffiti as I remember enjoying that, particularly the bit with the police car and the lamp post, but there was always a virus in it


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 17, 2020)

Still like the acoustic guitar smashing scene


----------



## kabbes (Jun 18, 2020)

It had never crossed my mind before that anybody could watch Blues Brothers and find it anything but brilliant.  Just goes to show there is nothing so good that somebody won’t dislike it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 18, 2020)

If nothing else The Blues Brothers is brilliant for giving Cab Calloway some recognition and appreciation.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jun 18, 2020)

That review is balls. It's a decent but flawed film and the music's ace, unless you're the sort of weirdo who doesn't like blues andclassic RnB   

The cultural approptiation claim is irritating. As I understand it, cultural appropriation is a kind of plagiarism, stealing ideas, forms and symbols from another culture or ethnicity and dishonestly passing them off as your own, without giving credit or acknowledgement to those whose ideas (in this case music) you're using. This film does not do that. In fact, the stars of the film are none other than people like Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, Cab Calloway and others too many to list here. "But the Blues Brothers are white!!!" So is some of the band, these were all top musicians in their own right and were the house session musicians for the Stax record label in its soul-RnB heyday. It's as if the reviewer is keen to go down the IDpol rabbit hole of white people shouldn't play blues and black people shouldn't play country... ending up with full neo-segregationism.

That said, the film does indeed carry the racism of the film studios, in not using black actors in lead roles - which was even more a rarity than it is now. There's also more than a hint of the "white saviour" trope in there. The plot is weak, some of the gags fall flat and what's with the Carrie Fisher plot line?

As for driving a car through an anti-fascist rally.... the reviewer is clearly a dick who didn't know what he was watching... or possibly thinks fash or anti fash have some equivalence, the dick.

Fuck the Guardian, again


----------



## YouSir (Jun 18, 2020)

Just re-watched the film, because it's there on Netflix, and had a scan of the review. It's just lazy shite, really. A puff piece from an author too half arsed to try and apply a critical analysis to anything more contemporary, offensive or relevant so instead throwing out some nonsense about an '80s film. Reminds me a bit of the people who try to derive all their politics from Harry Potter and who'll break their backs to give it relevance to any given situation (as JK Rowling seems to). It's not a contribution to the cultural discussion, it's just a way of feigning relevance without actually having to stretch yourself. Similar, in a way, to the TV channels reacting to the BLM movement by pulling old episodes of The Mighty Boosh or whatever - sure, there may be something to be said there, but let's face it they only did it because it was an easy way to show how concerned they were with racism without bothering to challenge or change anything meaningful.

Bah humbug.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 18, 2020)

Certainly got some hateclicks outta y'all though


----------



## YouSir (Jun 18, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Certainly got some hateclicks outta y'all though



All most of the media has left, so let them enjoy it.


----------



## stavros (Jun 27, 2020)

Nine pages in the sports section today, and another in the main paper devoted to Liverpool winning the Premiership, which happened on Thursday.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 27, 2020)

D'wards said:


> I disagree. It has great music,  great gags, great car chases. Landis is a genius and Belushi was a star.
> I watch it at least once a year


I haven't seen it in years, but I have to agree, it was the real deal and the genuine article. Also Carrie Fisher's greatest role.

Some idiot might make the cultural appropriation argument, but bringing back Cab Calloway and allowing him to give it the full 1930s big band treatment was the work of people were seriously trying to honour the cultural genres they were showcasing - which is also why they included Aretha Franklin and Ray Charles.


----------



## Santino (Jun 27, 2020)

The Blues Brother is.... a bit boring.

There. I have spoken.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 27, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> Some idiot might make the cultural appropriation argument


They would really have to be an idiot with no knowledge of soul music.
Look at the house bands of Motown or Stax/Atlantic. Half of those dudes were white. Check out the Funk Brothers documentary.
Colour didn't matter to the artists and producers back then as they were laying down hundreds of fantastic tracks.
So why should it matter to some public schoolboy arsehole white journalist from the Guardian?

In fact a couple or three of the Stax house band are in the Blues Brothers Band. Culturally appropriating from themselves  - the swines!


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 28, 2020)

stavros said:


> Nine pages in the sports section today, and another in the main paper devoted to Liverpool winning the Premiership, which happened on Thursday.


It really should have been ten.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 28, 2020)

__





						'What we've learned about Starmer is, if you pick a fight with him, you'll lose' | Keir Starmer | The Guardian
					

The Labour leader’s ruthless dismissal of Corbynite Rebecca Long-Bailey was a defining moment for his leadership




					amp.theguardian.com
				




Ooh isn't he manly.


----------



## LDC (Jul 3, 2020)

Cottagecore? WTAF?









						David Beckham leads the way as men flock to 'cottagecore' look
					

Latest trend conveys ‘a more romanticised ideal of masculinity’, says fashion professor




					www.theguardian.com
				




“As we emerge from lockdown, men are embracing cottagecore as a means to convey a more romanticised ideal of masculinity,” says Andrew Groves, a professor of fashion design at the University of Westminster. Here, he says, Beckham has idealised the agricultural worker and reimagined himself “as the gamekeeper from Lady Chatterley’s Lover”.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 3, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Cottagecore? WTAF?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OMG.



> Cottagecore for men could be seen as a natural branch of both the utility-led “gorpcore” trend (outdoor clothes for people who don’t go out) and the acid ramblers scene. “Those original 90s ravers are now to be found on the moors, both rambling and raving,” says Groves, “wearing a mixture of cords, knitwear and country smocks.” In that sense, he believes cottagecore is a trend that “is only going to become more prominent over the coming years.”



I've missed 'gorpcore'. I feel I'll never catch up.

Bullets. We need bullets.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 3, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> OMG.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and guns. no good without guns.


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 8, 2020)

Don’t know if this has been posted anywhere on here yet but quite interesting on the origins of The Guardian and under the current climate - should The Guardian now cancel itself?



> The paper, which was originally called the Manchester Guardian, was founded by John Edward Taylor in 1821 using profits from a cotton plantation that used slaves.











						That's not what they said in 1862! Guardian hypocrisy over BLM
					

The newspaper, which was then called the Manchester Guardian, sided with the Confederates in the US Civil War against the President, who wanted slavery abolished.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 8, 2020)

Yes, the Guardian is wank but you are a massive cunt. And can this twat get banned every time he links to the Daily Heil?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 9, 2020)

Is that seriously the Daily Mail pointing the finger at another newspaper’s dodgy past?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 9, 2020)

kabbes said:


> Is that seriously the Daily Mail pointing the finger at another newspaper’s dodgy past?


Pot calling kettle blackshirt


----------



## brogdale (Jul 9, 2020)




----------



## D'wards (Jul 9, 2020)

Regardless of who's bringing the charge, the fact that The Guardian was founded on slavery money is an interesting one.

I wonder if they'll address it or carry on regardless.

If it was another large organisation they'd get minimum 100 articles and scathing polemics out of it


----------



## Brainaddict (Jul 9, 2020)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 221471


It gets better, thread on it here:


----------



## brogdale (Jul 9, 2020)

Brainaddict said:


> It gets better, thread on it here:



Bet he is also a *former Labour voter *like his bro.
To think these 'journalists' get paid to dish up this shite.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 9, 2020)

his brother, the working class property developer.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 9, 2020)

D'wards said:


> Regardless of who's bringing the charge, the fact that The Guardian was founded on slavery money is an interesting one.
> 
> I wonder if they'll address it or carry on regardless.


The money aside, the relationship with protest and change - strikers, go back to work - is a demonstration of anti-w/c liberalism/reformism that holds true for that paper today.

So it can't address it, other than on a specific historic incident basis, because it's still doing the same bit now.


----------



## mauvais (Jul 9, 2020)

Anyway I particularly liked the last Leigh guy who said something along the lines of, 'so many old people have died that there must be a big pensions saving so that's nice'



> “Think of all the excess deaths we’ve had from Covid-19; more than 44,000 of them have been in my age group, the over-65s,” he said. “Surely the government has saved money as a result? That’s 44,000 fewer pensions the government is paying each week, plus they have probably saved a fortune in care home fees, too. I’d like to see that money going into the NHS, not just hospitality.”


Not recorded: "I should get a tax reduction for this!"


----------



## brogdale (Jul 9, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Anyway I particularly liked the last Leigh guy who said something along the lines of, 'so many old people have died that there must be a big pensions saving so that's nice'
> 
> Not recorded: "I should get a tax reduction for this!"


There's some right cunts out there.


----------



## flypanam (Jul 9, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Bet he is also a *former Labour voter *like his bro.
> To think these 'journalists' get paid to dish up this shite.


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 9, 2020)




----------



## Alex106 (Jul 9, 2020)

The Guardian has never been out of the pan.

It’s always been an anti-working class rag.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 9, 2020)

brogdale said:


> There's some right cunts out there.


Excuse me! I lost my virginity to a very nice person from Leigh


----------



## flypanam (Jul 9, 2020)

Part 2 said:


> View attachment 221504


I wonder if Andrew Windsor has been to this place, sounds like his vibe.


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 9, 2020)

flypanam said:


> I wonder if Andrew Windsor has been to this place, sounds like his vibe.



Please someone wittier than me do a review on his behalf


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2020)

One of Steatham Rovers sponsors


----------



## two sheds (Jul 14, 2020)

Can you please add a link when you're quoting Daily Mash articles?


----------



## D'wards (Jul 14, 2020)

Got this just now


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2020)

two sheds said:


> Can you please add a link when you're quoting Daily Mash articles?


it's obviously a fake as no one could honestly believe the guardian would really have a north of england editor. it doesn't exist for them.


----------



## YouSir (Jul 14, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> it's obviously a fake as no one could honestly believe the guardian would really have a north of england editor. it doesn't exist for them.



Not only do they have one but the article Trevor Bastard has parodied isn't that much better.









						'Imagine the state we’d be in if Corbyn had been in charge': the view from the 'red wall'
					

Working-class voters in Leigh do not regret voting for Tories after listening to chancellor’s summer statement




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## D'wards (Jul 15, 2020)

Looks like the title thread might be literal 





__





						Guardian announces plans to cut 180 jobs | The Guardian | The Guardian
					

Revenues expected to be down by more than £25m as effects of pandemic hit media industry




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2020)

I doubt their cringe-inducing new 'The Power of Touch' series will be the thing that turns it around for them. Unless they can somehow monetise it into a chart-topping power ballad.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 15, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> I doubt their cringe-inducing new 'The Power of Touch' series will be the thing that turns it around for them. Unless they can somehow monetise it into a chart-topping power ballad.


I saw one piece but I didn't realise it was a series.









						Welcome to the Guardian's Power of Touch series
					

Stories and poems full of loss, longing and tenderness




					www.theguardian.com
				






> ...many of us are unable to make physical contact with our ageing parents, our children, our dear friends, our family members in other parts of the country or the world. Many of us are stuck in our houses, or behind masks and gowns or plastic shields. Sadly, we are becoming afraid of each other; our bodies, dangerous and lethal. Fear relies on silence and othering. Fear has allowed our neighbourhoods to become islands. Fear of touch, of not enough, of absence.



Yeah, there is this virus around btw? It's not just some acausal "fear" that's going on here. But hell why _not_ have a whole load of articles about how great touching is when most people are even less able to than usual - I bet that will help.

This would annoy me even without lockdown.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 15, 2020)

I don't even like touching, and it irritated me.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 16, 2020)

Good news for the environment is that some of the weekend lifestyle bumpf is going

After massive redundancies they've managed to reduce their costs by nothing:


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2020)

Oh noes, where will we be able to read articles about gentrification and articles about the best 'undiscovered' rural towns to move to in the same supplement now?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2020)

how much are they paying crace? Money to be saved there.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 16, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Oh noes, where will we be able to read articles about gentrification and articles about the best 'undiscovered' rural towns to move to in the same supplement now?



Not to mention finding out where you can buy drinkable wines for under £25!


----------



## killer b (Jul 16, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> how much are they paying crace? Money to be saved there.


surely he pays them. it's the only explanation


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 17, 2020)

fuck me - that blues brothers article.  The film is the polar opposite of "cultural appropriation" - it does a brilliant job of showcasing fantastic R&B music in the context of urban america, putting the music's originators front and centre and re-introducing them to a whole new audience - and still does this to this day.
 And the blues brothers band is made up of two thirds of booker t and the mgs (the stax house band) 
 As a fourteen year old watching this film was blown away by james brown and aretha and who the fuck is this cab calloway geezer? - he's ace! 
Who cares about the plot? Its a high energy, ultra daft, bonkers  romp that is really just hilarious filler for  a  celebration of some of the greatest music and artists known to humanity. 

The whole "white people stole black music" argument is so fucking trite. People like pat boone doing toned down versions of black R&B (often at the expense of the original artists - by releasing them at the same time) - yes - shitty wank. 
But jazz and blues and gospel (itself heavily influenced by european hymnal)  were intermingling with european folk and bluegrass and country up and down the mississippi delta for many decades - all borrowing each other and creating an extraordinary cultural breeding ground that laid the foundations for last 70 years of popular music. People like Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis grew up with this music - it was as much theirs as anyone elses - the music of the poor - black and white. 
In the 60s, working class kids in britian latched onto the blues as outsider music and developed their own take on it - whilst (mostly) taking care to celebrate and promote its originators. 

Anyway - probably needs its own thread.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 17, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Good news for the environment is that is that some of the weekend lifestyle bumpf is going
> 
> After massive redundancies they've managed to reduce their costs by nothing:
> 
> ...




Anyone who deserves it getting sacked (i.e. nearly all of the comment people)? Anyone who shouldn't go (Sid Lowe) getting sacked?

In the 90s and 2000s I loved the hard copy of the Guide. Surplus to requirements now.


----------



## belboid (Jul 17, 2020)

Steve Bell has apparently been sacked.  Not part of the 180 job redundancies, just a ‘fuck off’


----------



## Favelado (Jul 17, 2020)

belboid said:


> Steve Bell has apparently been sacked.  Not part of the 180 job redundancies, just a ‘fuck off’



Wow.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 17, 2020)

belboid said:


> Steve Bell has apparently been sacked.  Not part of the 180 job redundancies, just a ‘fuck off’


Good


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 17, 2020)

belboid said:


> Steve Bell has apparently been sacked.  Not part of the 180 job redundancies, just a ‘fuck off’


Too expensive and/or too outspoken, perhaps?

If I've learned one thing about redundancies, it's that it doesn't matter how good at your job you are, if management decide you're gone, you're gone.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 17, 2020)

Kaka Tim said:


> fuck me - that blues brothers article.  The film is the polar opposite of "cultural appropriation" - it does a brilliant job of showcasing fantastic R&B music in the context of urban america, putting the music's originators front and centre and re-introducing them to a whole new audience - and still does this to this day.
> And the blues brothers band is made up of two thirds of booker t and the mgs (the stax house band)
> As a fourteen year old watching this film was blown away by james brown and aretha and who the fuck is this cab calloway geezer? - he's ace!
> Who cares about the plot? Its a high energy, ultra daft, bonkers  romp that is really just hilarious filler for  a  celebration of some of the greatest music and artists known to humanity.
> ...


Sounds like a good idea for a thread


----------



## Sue (Jul 17, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Too expensive and/or too outspoken, perhaps?


Too utterly shit I'd say. Though he has been forever so...


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 17, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Too expensive and/or too outspoken, perhaps?
> 
> If I've learned one thing about redundancies, it's that it doesn't matter how good at your job you are, if management decide you're gone, you're gone.



"Redundancy" means the role is redundant, so it shouldn't matter how good someone is.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 17, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> "Redundancy" means the role is redundant, so it shouldn't matter how good someone is.


No it shouldn't, often does though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 17, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Too expensive and/or too outspoken, perhaps?


Too racist/reactionary


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 17, 2020)

Sue said:


> Too utterly shit I'd say. Though he has been forever so...


 I read his stuff from the 80s when I was a teenager (early 00s). I thought it was good, but that could have been due to my youthful ignorance


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 17, 2020)

Kaka Tim said:


> The whole "white people stole black music" argument is so fucking trite. People like pat boone doing toned down versions of black R&B (often at the expense of the original artists - by releasing them at the same time) - yes - shitty wank.
> But jazz and blues and gospel (itself heavily influenced by european hymnal)  were intermingling with european folk and bluegrass and country up and down the mississippi delta for many decades - all borrowing each other and creating an extraordinary cultural breeding ground that laid the foundations for last 70 years of popular music. People like Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis grew up with this music - it was as much theirs as anyone elses - the music of the poor - black and white.
> In the 60s, working class kids in britian latched onto the blues as outsider music and developed their own take on it - whilst (mostly) taking care to celebrate and promote its originators.



Elvis was racist. I have that on the authority of a bunch of white people born long after Elvis died so we don't need to listen to the opinions of the black musicians who actually knew and worked with Elvis.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 18, 2020)

belboid said:


> Steve Bell has apparently been sacked.  Not part of the 180 job redundancies, just a ‘fuck off’



Has the Mail got anyone in to replace the recently retired Mac yet? Time to bat for the other side?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 20, 2020)

Britain's housing market sees post-lockdown mini-boom
					

With homes now back on the market, estate agents say inquiries are ‘through the roof’




					www.theguardian.com
				




Usual house price bollocks. I thought this bit was quite telling though:



> Separately, new data has revealed that the average monthly rent on a newly let home in Britain fell to £986 in June. This was down 0.7% on June 2019, when the figure was £992, and marked the first annual fall since February 2014, Hamptons International said.
> 
> London was worst hit, seeing a year-on-year fall in central boroughs that was much larger than the average: a record 7.4% (from an average of £2,790 to £2,584) as overseas students and other tenants deserted the capital during lockdown.



How awful that a house can now be rented for a mere £2584.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 20, 2020)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Britain's housing market sees post-lockdown mini-boom
> 
> 
> With homes now back on the market, estate agents say inquiries are ‘through the roof’
> ...



"London was worst hit "


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 20, 2020)

FILTHY DESERTERS!


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah, going back to their home countries instead of propping up London house prices. Not our sort of people...


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 23, 2020)

Steve Bell 'stunned' at reports he has been 'sacked': 'The whole thing has been a bit disturbing'
					

Steve Bell leaves The Guardian: After twice having cartoons pulled in recent years, veteran cartoonist is set to leave the title




					www.pressgazette.co.uk
				




Steve Bell's cartoons were the only thing that kept me buying the Guardian for many years.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 24, 2020)

Guardian reporters go to _literally two places_ and conclude masks are everywhere.









						'The masks are everywhere today' – England's shoppers finally cover up
					

A week ago few would have worn a face covering, on Friday most shoppers in Devizes or Stratford followed the rules




					www.theguardian.com
				




These vox pop articles are always pointless shite but this is the worst one I can remember.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 24, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Guardian reporters go to _literally two places_ and conclude masks are everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The clues were all there


----------



## Sue (Jul 24, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Guardian reporters go to _literally two places_ and conclude masks are everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a bold claim.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Guardian reporters go to _literally two places_ and conclude masks are everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't be worse than that 'the working class artisan pizza restaurant chain owners of Leigh are still bumming Boris Johnson' one.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 24, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Can't be worse than that 'the working class artisan pizza restaurant chain owners of Leigh are still bumming Boris Johnson' one.


Oh yes, forgot about that one, but bad for different reasons I think - not that they thought going to two places actually meant anything, but that they tried to pass off a long-term-Tory mate of the journo as some random bloke.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 24, 2020)

Another Twitter cut and paste fail, but....








Jim McCabe

@Macca00

Replying to 
@SUTONGIROTCIP
 and 
@edwardpoole1975
The Corbyn gofundme page has now raised more than the Guardian’s appeal for financial support.
6:05 pm · 24 Jul 2020·Twitter for iPhone


----------



## savoloysam (Jul 25, 2020)

D'wards said:


> You really have to watch The Guardian. If you know something about a situation then their biases are so evident to see.
> 
> Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are going through terrible court battles at the moment.
> They totally ignored the fact that Heard admitted on tape to beating him up, then mocking him for his response to the situation which was to leave the house when she gets violent.
> ...



This case is very interesting to me as a survivor of domestic abuse at the hands of my former partner.

Right now evey MSM network is throwing the "Johnny is an absuer" angle. Except, of all newspapers, The Telegraph! But then half of these networks are affilated one and the same so want The Sun's allegations to be upheld.

Those of us that have watched and listened to the evidence that can be found easily online and are also following people very close to the case on twitter know that the real story that is being played out in the court is a very different picture and shows Amber Heard to be a nasty piece of work to say the least.


----------



## Flavour (Jul 29, 2020)

Omg I can't believe no-one has posted this yet. In an article about Wiley and systemic racism by Owen Jones the Guardian originally published a picture of .... Kano! It's so good.









						Tackling racism on social media is just the tip of the iceberg | Owen Jones
					

Amid the anger over Wiley’s tirade, let’s not forget the newspapers that have been peddling prejudice for years, says Guardian columnist Owen Jones




					www.theguardian.com
				






> _Kano: an apology. This article mistakenly carried a photograph of Kano when it was first published. The Guardian apologises unreservedly to Kano and our readers for the error, which has now been corrected. We would also like to clarify that Owen Jones was not involved in this error_


----------



## D'wards (Jul 29, 2020)

Flavour said:


> Omg I can't believe no-one has posted this yet. In an article about Wiley and systemic racism by Owen Jones the Guardian originally published a picture of .... Kano! It's so good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An article when the Irish Post made an identical mistake 









						Confusing Stormzy and Lukaku? Using the N-word? This is not trivial. This matters | Kehinde Andrews
					

An Irish newspaper has failed to distinguish between two black men. At root this is about seeing us as all the same, writes Kehinde Andrews, an associate professor in sociology




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 31, 2020)

Hair trauma

Summary: bloke gets a haircut, everything is fine.

My pandemic epiphany: learning my man bun didn't define me


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 3, 2020)

Wtf Zoe Williams thinks that a mockney bellend businesschef is an anti-capitalist





						Jamie Oliver on fame, failure and fighting obesity: 'I'm actually quite shy. I don't like a ruck' | Jamie Oliver | The Guardian
					

Every time the chef talks about the UK’s diet, it gets him in trouble. Remember Turkey Twizzlers? But he’s too passionate to give up<br>




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 3, 2020)

Flavour said:


> Omg I can't believe no-one has posted this yet. In an article about Wiley and systemic racism by Owen Jones the Guardian originally published a picture of .... Kano! It's so good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



When Denise Johnson died last week they immediately put up a news story about it. Giving her wrong age and headed by a picture that they captioned as being her, but it wasn't her.

Comments were open btl. People immediately started writing in telling them to correct it. They changed her age to the right one and put up a new picture - that again wasn't Denise Johnson.

Third time lucky they managed to find a picture that was actually her.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 3, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> When Denise Johnson died last week they immediately put up a news story about it. Giving her wrong age and headed by a picture that they captioned as being her, but it wasn't her.
> Comments were open btl. People immediately started writing in telling them to correct it. They changed her age to the right one and put up a new picture - that again wasn't Denise Johnson.
> 
> Third time lucky they managed to find a picture that was actually her.


I don't think it's asking too much for a paper to find the right picture for a story first time, and make sure the facts are accurate.


----------



## GarveyLives (Aug 6, 2020)

> _"White silence is violence"_



The Guardian hides slaver background of Robert Geffrey in article on museum rename


----------



## Gerry1time (Aug 6, 2020)

mx wcfc said:


> Steve Bell 'stunned' at reports he has been 'sacked': 'The whole thing has been a bit disturbing'
> 
> 
> Steve Bell leaves The Guardian: After twice having cartoons pulled in recent years, veteran cartoonist is set to leave the title
> ...



I've been reading the Guardian almost as long as Steve Bell's been doing cartoons for it, and I've never understood a single one of them. Not one. Not even slightly. Am completely bemused as to how he's done over 39 years there. Not in a negative way, I'm sure he's a very lovely talented man. Am just genuinely lost as to what any of his stuff ever means ever.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 9, 2020)

Flavour said:


> Omg I can't believe no-one has posted this yet. In an article about Wiley and systemic racism by Owen Jones the Guardian originally published a picture of .... Kano! It's so good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





planetgeli said:


> When Denise Johnson died last week they immediately put up a news story about it. Giving her wrong age and headed by a picture that they captioned as being her, but it wasn't her.
> 
> Comments were open btl. People immediately started writing in telling them to correct it. They changed her age to the right one and put up a new picture - that again wasn't Denise Johnson.
> 
> Third time lucky they managed to find a picture that was actually her.



Response from the ‘Guardian & Observer global readers' editor’:









						Mistakes with identities have dismayed our readers – and prompted change | Elisabeth Ribbans
					

When a picture of Kano was used in place of Wiley, readers asked to know how it happened – and how it can be prevented, says Guardian and Observer global readers’ editor Elisabeth Ribbans




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2020)

Keir Starmer may not excite, but the Tories cannot lay a glove on him | Rafael Behr
					

The Labour leader’s ability to anticipate and swerve potential pitfalls is serving the opposition well – for now, says Guardian columnist Rafael Behr




					www.theguardian.com
				




tl;dr "Starmer has not been attacked by the Tories much because he has no actual positions, and that's good, he can definitely win the next election even if nobody knows how because of this" (I can't quite explain the last bit)


----------



## two sheds (Aug 11, 2020)

and the fact that papers like the guardian haven't been running rabid anti-starmer stories would help


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 11, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Keir Starmer may not excite, but the Tories cannot lay a glove on him | Rafael Behr
> 
> 
> The Labour leader’s ability to anticipate and swerve potential pitfalls is serving the opposition well – for now, says Guardian columnist Rafael Behr
> ...




Can't argue with impeccable credentials like that, can you?


----------



## bimble (Aug 13, 2020)




----------



## Sprocket. (Aug 13, 2020)

two sheds said:


> and the fact that papers like the guardian haven't been running rabid anti-starmer stories would help



Give them time.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 13, 2020)

bimble said:


> View attachment 226328



'We're down to our last 84 cases of champagne'


----------



## brogdale (Aug 13, 2020)

_Large gîte._


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 13, 2020)

bimble said:


> View attachment 226328


I just came here to post that. It gets worse as you read it. The real people suffering are the landlords it turns out.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 13, 2020)

brogdale said:


> _Large gîte._


Le con massif


----------



## scifisam (Aug 16, 2020)

The Guardian continues to show its true blue colours by having an article on how difficult it is to make money as a comedian, using an interview with possibly one of the most privileged people in the entire comedy circuit. Her Dad is a senior economist and an advisor to Boris Johnson, and her Edinburgh act was about a boarding school matron. So unsurprisingly she's clearly so lacking in self awareness that she doesn't realise she's a shit person to be talking about poverty as a comedian. 

The article is from 2019. Somehow I suspect she's still not broke. 









						It's the comedy economy, stupid! Elf Lyons on the true cost of standup
					

After a Franglais Swan Lake, the comic explains economics with sex dolls in ChiffChaff. She talks about loving horror, how guinea pigs helped her through illness and standing up for comedians




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 16, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Le con massif


Noilly prat


----------



## metalguru (Aug 16, 2020)

Naomi Campbell: ‘It’s time to reset’
					

The world’s greatest supermodel has been a fearless champion of diversity in fashion for decades. Now she’s relishing a moment of change




					www.theguardian.com
				




This fawning Naomi Campbell article gets off to a bad start with its sub heading:

_



			"The world’s greatest supermodel has been a fearless champion of diversity in fashion for decades. Now she’s relishing a moment of change
		
Click to expand...

_
and gets worse....

She has a history of unacceptable obnoxious celeb behaviour and should have been called out on it properly and told to fuck off long ago.


----------



## metalguru (Aug 16, 2020)

_Twenty minutes into waiting for her to join our call, a message pops up from a representative apologising that she’d be a few minutes late. Another 20 minutes and I’m told she’s “just working out how to sign in”. I’ve been expecting the wait, comparatively tame compared to the tales of four-hour stake-outs I’d heard from other journalists.

And then, suddenly, she enters, and the atmosphere changes even in a virtual room, international accent first and then the face that launched 1,000 covers; skin dewy and glowy, goddess-like; impossibly high cheekbones and honey-blonde highlights. “Hi,” she says coyly. Polite but unapologetic. It’s fascinating to witness in real time this acute awareness of her own mythology; an unspoken agreement with anyone she encounters that she will be operating according to her own time zone._

This is hideous sycophancy - not journalism...


----------



## two sheds (Aug 16, 2020)

metalguru said:


> Naomi Campbell: ‘It’s time to reset’
> 
> 
> The world’s greatest supermodel has been a fearless champion of diversity in fashion for decades. Now she’s relishing a moment of change
> ...



I thought your last sentence was what the Guardian article continued with: a rare sentence of truth I thought, briefly.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 19, 2020)

Person earning six figure salary in human resources forced by own shit money management to claim UC like everyone else. There'll not be a dry eye in the house reading this one.









						'My world came crashing down': how 2020 took me from a six-figure salary to universal credit
					

When I was made redundant, I thought I would easily get another great job. Then the pandemic hit …




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## scifisam (Aug 19, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Person earning six figure salary in human resources forced by own shit money management to claim UC like everyone else. There'll not be a dry eye in the house reading this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dunno. It was badly written, a bit too woe-is-me, but her actual situation is one most people should be able to sympathise with. She's broke due to a long period of illness and still paying off the debts from that time, and can't meet her outgoings under UC, with no mention of wanting to shop at Waitrose or being unable to pay the cleaner like these articles usually include. 

If we only reserve our sympathies for people in the UK sleeping on the street, then we should stop being sympathetic to them too because at least they're not in a dinghy on the channel.


----------



## metalguru (Aug 19, 2020)

It's going to be a very familiar story as we move into autumn.... 

I do feel sympathy for her situation.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 22, 2020)




----------



## T & P (Aug 22, 2020)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 227490


Here's hoping football hooligans will adopt this, just like they did with the baseball caps a couple of decades ago which almost resulted in Burberry's ruination.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2020)

T & P said:


> Here's hoping football hooligans will adopt this, just like they did with the baseball caps a couple of decades ago which almost resulted in Burberry's ruination.


when there are cheaper knock-offs then it may. but not at £90 a mask.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2020)

metalguru said:


> It's going to be a very familiar story as we move into autumn....


oh i do hope so, the more managers from hr who find out the organisation can actually do without them the better.


----------



## Flavour (Aug 22, 2020)




----------



## PTK (Aug 22, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Person earning six figure salary in human resources forced by own shit money management to claim UC like everyone else. There'll not be a dry eye in the house reading this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have not read the article, but surely the person concerned would not qualify for UC on account of being over the savings limit?


----------



## scifisam (Aug 22, 2020)

PTK said:


> I have not read the article, but surely the person concerned would not qualify for UC on account of being over the savings limit?



She says she had no savings and she used up the redundancy payment during several months of no work and having to make some debt repayments. Even a six figure salary won't give you a huge redundancy payment if you haven't been working there long.

You could have just read the article - it's hardly War and Peace.


----------



## PTK (Aug 22, 2020)

scifisam said:


> She says she had no savings and she used up the redundancy payment during several months of no work and having to make some debt repayments. Even a six figure salary won't give you a huge redundancy payment if you haven't been working there long.
> 
> You could have just read the article - it's hardly War and Peace.


You are right, I was being lazy. I have now read the article, and I feel sympathy for her. We tend to live up to our salaries, and it is very hard to adjust to being jobless.  I hope that people in well-paid jobs who read this article will realise that it could happen to them, and will support those campaigning to reverse benefit cuts.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 22, 2020)

PTK said:


> I have not read the article, but surely the person concerned would not qualify for UC on account of being over the savings limit?


No savings, asa long period of illness wiped them out.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 22, 2020)

It's not so much the events in themselves that gives the HR-manager-on-the-dole piece a nasty taste for me. I mean that's actually not too far away from my own life - I was made redundant last year (not voluntarily, and not from anywhere near a six figure salary job, but I got a good payoff), I didn't have much in the way of extra savings due to illness, a job I was going to start in March was put on hold, no furlough or self-employment payout available, and I had to sign on which I've never had to before, which wouldn't have paid my way for long because it doesn't for anyone. It wasn't a lot of fun even if I eventually did get the job. Oh and I rent too.

On the other hand the attitude in the actual piece just makes me grit my teeth. It's all super self-indulgent and self-pitying - the shit you have to do for UC is no laughs but it's like she'd never considered this before, that this was regular life for a great number of people, and in fact her experience was much better than it was for them. It's only at the end that anyone else is mentioned, and I don't hold out much hope for the "process of re-evaluating my treatment of others while working in HR"; as soon as she gets a job she'll be fucking workers over like before with probably even greater enthusiasm (wouldn't want to lose the job after all).


----------



## scifisam (Aug 22, 2020)

PTK said:


> You are right, I was being lazy. I have now read the article, and I feel sympathy for her. We tend to live up to our salaries, and it is very hard to adjust to being jobless.  I hope that people in well-paid jobs who read this article will realise that it could happen to them, and will support those campaigning to reverse benefit cuts.



Yup. Some of them might think "well, why is she still renting" (being 45 and from a working class background and having a history of illness explains it, I guess, despite the salary she had for a while), but they might also recognise their friends or colleagues in it. The Guardian got it right for once.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 22, 2020)

It is a self indulgent piece to a certain extent, it's still written from a certain privilege of position, like the bit where she said she hadn't considered how being made redundant makes one feel, that she'll try (try!) to remember to be more compassionate next time.

I've struggled with long periods of I'll health and an unsympathetic employer, leading to debt and a lack of savings. And I've never had a six figure salary or am I likely to, in my career. I am sympathetic to her situation, because it's been shit for lots of people, but equally she's being quite self indulgent, in that she has designer goods she can sell and most people don't. 

I wouldn't say the Guardian have got it spot on but it's better than most pieces.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 22, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> It is a self indulgent piece to a certain extent, it's still written from a certain privilege of position, like the bit where she said she hadn't considered how being made redundant makes one feel, that she'll try (try!) to remember to be more compassionate next time.
> 
> I've struggled with long periods of I'll health and an unsympathetic employer, leading to debt and a lack of savings. And I've never had a six figure salary or am I likely to, in my career. I am sympathetic to her situation, because it's been shit for lots of people, but equally she's being quite self indulgent, in that she has designer goods she can sell and most people don't.
> 
> I wouldn't say the Guardian have got it spot on but it's better than most pieces.



I think they got it spot on in terms of appealing to people who hadn't really connected UC with themselves before, without, unlike a lot of Guardian articles, assuming that everyone - even poor people - owns a home and has family help to fall back on, and being poor means not going on holiday twice a year. At least this was a renter who is actually broke. 

Plus, some people do like the woe-is-me style of writing - I don't, but it can work. Probably difficult to write such a short article about your own situation without focusing on yourself above all else.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 28, 2020)

Just going wtf at this headline:

'Eat out to help out' fuels UK economic recovery in August

Without any evidence presented, and admitting a few lines later that there has been a general rebound due to pent up consumer spending.

Doing Johnson's work for him.


----------



## Doodler (Aug 28, 2020)

Brainaddict said:


> Just going wtf at this headline:
> 
> 'Eat out to help out' fuels UK economic recovery in August
> 
> ...



Would guess the main beneficiaries of the scheme by a long way have been cheap to mid-market chains like Pizza Hut, Bella Italia, Five Guys etc.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 29, 2020)

kinnel.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 30, 2020)

brogdale said:


> kinnel.
> 
> View attachment 228266


Such largesse. Such generosity.

Also assumes people have cars.


----------



## Flavour (Aug 31, 2020)

jesus christ that is fucking fantastic. like even from the first two words, "rival bank", we know we're in the territory of the enemy, but with every word the paragraph gets better and better. it's like we've come full circle with satire and people say "it's impossible to do satire now!" ... but it's not true! the key is to do it so subtley, as in this case, that it's entirely plausible that the writer was taking the piss, but leaves you in doubt.

e2a: also love the implication that only "senior bankers" go on holidays while the "junior staff" are forced to plough through a boring august at the office, public transport be damned


----------



## agricola (Sep 3, 2020)

reality:  



grauniad:  









						Labour urges UK government not to hire Tony Abbott as trade envoy
					

Australian ex-PM’s views on women and equal marriage make him ‘wrong person for job’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Sep 3, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Such largesse. Such generosity.
> 
> Also assumes people have cars.


I don't imagine the 'more junior' staff being offered the spare parking spaces are the post room staff or the cleaners tbf. It's probably a reasonable assumption for JP Morgan to make about the not senior but actually still quite senior staff they're offering the spaces to.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2020)

brogdale said:


> kinnel.
> 
> View attachment 228266


so rather than having some sort of easy system by which vacant spots can be distributed, an app must be commissioned and introduced so people lounging on their yachts or in their third (or fourth) homes can if they please donate their parking spot.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 3, 2020)

brogdale said:


> kinnel.
> 
> View attachment 228266



Two of those happened at my office - the parking was because the company felt public transport carried too much risk of someone picking up the virus and bringing it into the office, and the 'free food' was due to stuff in the canteen getting to its sell-by date so it got given away.  This was a few months ago, though, and before they started trying to get people back in the office.


----------



## Sue (Sep 20, 2020)

Time to try out some luxury PPE, now that Covid face masks are so last spring
					

Fashion brands and style influencers are touting gold-studded face shields or even full Perspex head coverings




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## belboid (Sep 25, 2020)

In oh so many ways....

*Suella Braverman calls fellow female MP 'emotional' during Brexit bill row*









						Suella Braverman calls fellow female MP 'emotional' during Brexit bill row
					

Braverman’s response was branded ‘pathetic’ by the shadow justice secretary, David Lammy




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 25, 2020)

belboid said:


> In oh so many ways....
> 
> *Suella Braverman calls fellow female MP 'emotional' during Brexit bill row*
> 
> ...


Is Tobes her SpAd?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 29, 2020)

How to go skiing despite a winter of Covid restrictions
					

Planning a ski holiday may seem daunting but resorts are open – and if the continent seems too far, hit the slopes in Scotland




					www.theguardian.com
				




I'm sure this will put all your minds at rest.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 29, 2020)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> How to go skiing despite a winter of Covid restrictions
> 
> 
> Planning a ski holiday may seem daunting but resorts are open – and if the continent seems too far, hit the slopes in Scotland
> ...


All my ski concerns satisfied.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2020)

Down wiv da kidz?


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 6, 2020)

Scientists call for Covid herd immunity strategy for young
					

Critics describe proposal to isolate vulnerable, disabled and older people as ‘grotesque’




					www.theguardian.com
				




Somewhat irresponsible reporting imo.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 17, 2020)

That's the spirit...


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 17, 2020)

A curb on my liberties might be OK if we weren’t led by Boris Johnson and co | Nick Cohen
					

Covid-19 is being used to give the state more powers. No 10 will one day see how they work• Coronavirus – latest updates• See all our coronavirus coverage




					www.theguardian.com
				




I can't really work out what this article by Nick Cohen is arguing for or against.


----------



## Favelado (Oct 18, 2020)

Someone has written an article about class. Do you think they'll get sacked?









						Being white won’t hold boys back. Being working class just might | Kenan Malik
					

It makes no sense to judge the fate of ‘white working-class boys’, a confusing category




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2020)

Favelado said:


> Someone has written an article about class. Do you think they'll get sacked?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think Kenan Malik is quite safe


----------



## Favelado (Oct 18, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> I think Kenan Malik is quite safe



Is this him going off on a mad adventure compared to his other stuff?


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 18, 2020)

frogwoman said:


> A curb on my liberties might be OK if we weren’t led by Boris Johnson and co | Nick Cohen
> 
> 
> Covid-19 is being used to give the state more powers. No 10 will one day see how they work• Coronavirus – latest updates• See all our coronavirus coverage
> ...


Basically arguing that Johnson is a fuckwit which is logic I find very hard to fault.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2020)

Favelado said:


> Is this him going off on a mad adventure compared to his other stuff?


He's much more famous for writing about issues around Islam and freedom of expression, eg his book from fatwa to jihad


----------



## JimW (Oct 18, 2020)

Favelado said:


> Is this him going off on a mad adventure compared to his other stuff?


Of a piece with his other, err, pieces.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 18, 2020)

What I've read by Kenan Malik on the subject of idpol has been pretty decent.


----------



## Micky D (Oct 21, 2020)

‘This is a chance to smile again’: Strictly’s Jacqui Smith on scandal, divorce and life outside politics
					

The first female home secretary discusses the government’s Covid response, online dating in your 50s – and why the glitterball is within her reach




					www.theguardian.com
				




A million Iraqi dead ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2020)

Micky D said:


> ‘This is a chance to smile again’: Strictly’s Jacqui Smith on scandal, divorce and life outside politics
> 
> 
> The first female home secretary discusses the government’s Covid response, online dating in your 50s – and why the glitterball is within her reach
> ...


Not to mention those killed by sanctions in the 90s and early 00s and 1998's operation desert fox bombing of iraq


----------



## brogdale (Oct 22, 2020)

Apparently unaware...


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 22, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Apparently unaware...
> 
> View attachment 235370


I agree. Those two should be social distancing more.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 26, 2020)

Statistical illiteracy isn't a niche problem. During a pandemic, it can be fatal | Carlo Rovelli
					

In recent months, we’ve all been bombarded with numbers. It’s vital that we learn how to interpret them, says physicist and author Carlo Rovelli




					www.theguardian.com
				






> One evening, at a dinner party, I mentioned these events to a friend who is a mathematician, and he burst out laughing. “There are 400 tiles on the floor of this room; if I throw 100 grains of rice into the air, will I find,” he asked us, “five grains on any one tile?” We replied in the negative: there was only one grain for every four tiles: not enough to have five on a single tile.



Well you sound like a bit of an idiot and not someone who should be lecturing others on probability. 

Also I don't believe this happened.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 26, 2020)

emanymton said:


> Statistical illiteracy isn't a niche problem. During a pandemic, it can be fatal | Carlo Rovelli
> 
> 
> In recent months, we’ve all been bombarded with numbers. It’s vital that we learn how to interpret them, says physicist and author Carlo Rovelli
> ...



Helluva dinner party


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2020)

emanymton said:


> Statistical illiteracy isn't a niche problem. During a pandemic, it can be fatal | Carlo Rovelli
> 
> 
> In recent months, we’ve all been bombarded with numbers. It’s vital that we learn how to interpret them, says physicist and author Carlo Rovelli
> ...


it depends if they moved the table or not - if they didn't the probability alters significantly for the other tiles not covered by chairs or table


----------



## Raheem (Oct 26, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> it depends if they moved the table or not - if they didn't the probability alters significantly for the other tiles not covered by chairs or table


Also fails to take into consideration the possibility of a through-breeze and an open window, and appears to make an unwarranted assumption that all the tiles are the same size.

No point in having statisticians if you don't balance them with twice as many pedants.

ETA: Twice as many _or some other multiple_.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 26, 2020)

And assumes there are 400 people in the building. Plus ignores Shewhart/Deming's statistical work on time-series data and special/common causes 

Eta. More accurate experiment would be to throw 400 each of say 30 different coloured grains of rice to represent 30 diseases they could have had and see how many tiles had five and only five of the colour representing that particular disease.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 26, 2020)

emanymton said:


> Statistical illiteracy isn't a niche problem. During a pandemic, it can be fatal | Carlo Rovelli
> 
> 
> In recent months, we’ve all been bombarded with numbers. It’s vital that we learn how to interpret them, says physicist and author Carlo Rovelli
> ...


The author is a theoretical physicist specialising in quantum gravity. I would have expected him to at least understand the assumptions better and why they were wrong. 

Something I observed working in a university many years ago - there's very clever people who have no concept of reality or common sense.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 26, 2020)

You guys laugh but it's true


----------



## two sheds (Oct 26, 2020)

No, sorry, I was laughing at your last sentence because I've seen it as well


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 26, 2020)

I can just imagine the fun times they had chucking rice around at a dinner party, until somebody asked who was clearing it up...


----------



## emanymton (Oct 26, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> I can just imagine the fun times they had chucking rice around at a dinner party, until somebody asked who was clearing it up...


The cleaner obviously.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 26, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> The author is a theoretical physicist specialising in quantum gravity. I would have expected him to at least understand the assumptions better and why they were wrong.


This is the thing most people even those with little grasp of maths would have said. "Well it might".


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 26, 2020)

emanymton said:


> This is the thing most people even those with little grasp of maths would have said. "Well it might".


It was his bold assumption that it couldn't possibly happen because there were more tiles than grains of rice so the rice would fall equally upon the tiles. I mean, for fucks sake, this guy should know better than most this is utter bollocks.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 26, 2020)

These sorts of soirées start off fine - a cheeky little bump of arborio, then maybe a line or two of basmati - but before you know it it's all freebasing sticky, injecting reheated brown and chasing the jasmine


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2020)

a corker today

there's a big article about james le mesurier:









						How Syria's disinformation wars destroyed the co-founder of the White Helmets
					

The long read: In November 2019, James Le Mesurier, the British co-founder of the Syrian rescue group, fell to his death in Istanbul. What led an internationally celebrated humanitarian to take his own life?




					www.theguardian.com
				



and the article says that boris johnson was briefed on the death 'before breakfast'

say what you like about boris johnson but he wasn't a minister in 2014. indeed he wasn't even an mp:









						Boris Johnson - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## brogdale (Oct 29, 2020)

Can't imagine French readers will be laughing heartily at Bell's cartoon tonight.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 29, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Can't imagine French readers will be laughing heartily at Bell's cartoon tonight.
> 
> View attachment 236519


They might be in difficulty complaining about cartoons. Most of them won't recognise Morrissey anyway.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 29, 2020)

Raheem said:


> They might be in difficulty complaining about cartoons. Most of them won't recognise Morrissey anyway.


Can only hope their subs don't place it next to the Nice story on the paper copy.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 29, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Can only hope their subs don't place it next to the Nice story on the paper copy.


Yes, I got your point. Platter could be read as a collection plate as well, but I don't think it's intentional.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 29, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Yes, I got your point. Platter could be read as a collection plate as well, but I don't think it's intentional.


Spends a year polishing plates.

Prick


----------



## ska invita (Oct 29, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Yes, I got your point. Platter could be read as a collection plate as well, but I don't think it's intentional.


head on a plate is from the bible








						Beheading of John the Baptist - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 29, 2020)

It’s pretty disgraceful that cartoon. Starmer as Bad Jew Herod with Good Jew St John the Baptist’s head on a plate. He know what he’s saying, Bell


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 30, 2020)

The first thing that struck me about the depiction of Sick Here was not the use of antisemitic tropes but the obvious deployment of homophobic ones.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 30, 2020)

Lurdan said:


> The first thing that struck me about the depiction of Sick Here was not the use of antisemitic tropes but the obvious deployment of homophobic ones.


Think it's meant to be based on this




Which is where Starmer gets his feminised butter-wouldn't-melt expression. Not that I'm saying it's therefore unproblematic.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 30, 2020)

From this morning summary








						Friday briefing: Labour's day of shame and blame
					

Party in crisis after Corbyn suspended for rejecting antisemitism findings … Macron pleads for unity … New Zealand votes to legalise euthanasia




					www.theguardian.com
				





such a lying rag


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Think it's meant to be based on this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


caravaggio unless i miss my mark


----------



## brogdale (Oct 30, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> caravaggio unless i miss my mark


The only question being, i suppose, in this case who is Salome's mother?


----------



## Raheem (Oct 30, 2020)

brogdale said:


> The only question being, i suppose, in this case who is Salome's mother?


That and where's Jesus hiding.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 30, 2020)

The Simon Jenkins missive that protesting is a waste of time and achieves nothing has to be peak capitalist realism The world is rocked by protest – but does taking to the streets ever work? | Simon Jenkins It achieves nothing, but it used to, but not now Eastern Europe blah blah blah poll tax etc etc

But then the Washing post could print this a a year ago "In a new study, we systematically examine how citizens have sought to promote democracy in about 150 countries. Here’s what we find: Industrial workers have been key agents of democratization and, if anything, are even more important than the urban middle classes."


			https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/24/we-checked-years-protests-countries-heres-what-we-learned-about-working-class-democracy/
		


simon simon simon get to bed you tired boy.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 30, 2020)

I thought they'd got rid of Steve Bell?


----------



## belboid (Oct 30, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> I thought they'd got rid of Steve Bell?


contract renegotiation, due to take effect next year.  Probably a reduced workload so no If.... but retaining the editorial cartoons


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2020)

brogdale said:


> The only question being, i suppose, in this case who is Salome's mother?


Who is the equivalent of Herodias, the wife of Herod Antipas? Good question


----------



## belboid (Oct 30, 2020)

The Titian (which it also highly resembles) has no Herodias - almost as if he (Bell) thought putting a behind the scenes paymaster in may not have been a good idea.


----------



## agricola (Nov 1, 2020)

> *Day 9*: Arzua's colonnaded streets lead into open country where local farmers wear berets as they tend vines and build haystacks with pitch forks. Your route rises and falls through river valleys, crossing rushing streams. This evening you can marvel at Javier's breathtaking converted water mill, where original machinery has been turned into spectacular period features.



From the Guardian's self-guided walking tour along the last bit of the pilgrimage route to Santiago de Compostela.  Yours for a mere £2,089 for the ten days (not including flights).


----------



## brogdale (Nov 1, 2020)

agricola said:


> From the Guardian's self-guided walking tour along the last bit of the pilgrimage route to Santiago de Compostela.  Yours for a mere £2,089 for the ten days (not including flights).


At >£2k I think I'd expect some sort of a guide, tbh


----------



## agricola (Nov 1, 2020)

brogdale said:


> At >£2k I think I'd expect some sort of a guide, tbh



and at least an evening meal a night (you only get seven for the ten days)


----------



## belboid (Nov 3, 2020)

The Guardian said:
			
		

> 3m ago13:06
> 
> We have our first result! Joe Biden has swept the board in the tiny New Hampshire village Dixville Notch



only six and a half hours after it was posted on Urban...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 3, 2020)

brogdale said:


> At >£2k I think I'd expect some sort of a Guide, tbh


Used to be free on a Saturday


----------



## JTG (Nov 3, 2020)

belboid said:


> only six and a half hours after it was posted on Urban...


I was saying to strung out only a few minutes ago that he should follow the Guardian live blog tonight if he wants to read stuff that was reported everywhere else a few hours ago


----------



## mauvais (Nov 7, 2020)

Child labour is exploitation – but the household work I did as a child gave me life skills | Elizabeth Sibale
					

Growing up in Africa taught me to be self-reliant and resilient. Putting children to work must be seen in local context




					www.theguardian.com
				




You 'eard.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 7, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Child labour is exploitation – but the household work I did as a child gave me life skills | Elizabeth Sibale
> 
> 
> Growing up in Africa taught me to be self-reliant and resilient. Putting children to work must be seen in local context
> ...



Jesus fuck is that from their North Korean edition or what?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 7, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Child labour is exploitation – but the household work I did as a child gave me life skills | Elizabeth Sibale
> 
> 
> Growing up in Africa taught me to be self-reliant and resilient. Putting children to work must be seen in local context
> ...


All work is exploitation


----------



## kabbes (Nov 7, 2020)

Haven’t read the article and don’t intend to.  It is true, however, that what within a Western context would be seen as child labour could within a different context be interpreted as a child absorbing the cultural tools that will allow them to thrive in their society.  Children can develop through warehoused, organised knowledge-transcription or they can do so by taking part in the practices of the culture.  The latter is not inherently worse than the former — what is important is the wellbeing of the child, not the format of the development.  (And on that score, I would note that there isn’t exactly a great track-record over the last 100 years for guaranteeing the well-being of children within school either).


----------



## JTG (Nov 16, 2020)

The quality of the Comment is Free section has today seen a marginal uptick as rancid transphobe Suzanne Moore announces to her Twitter followers that she has left the Guardian.
Get rid of Freeman next please


----------



## killer b (Nov 16, 2020)

JTG said:


> The quality of the Comment is Free section has today seen a marginal uptick as rancid transphobe Suzanne Moore announces to her Twitter followers that she has left the Guardian.
> Get rid of Freeman next please


Speaking of Freeman, how about this?? 



'Write a column'


----------



## 8115 (Nov 16, 2020)

Cummings should not be forgotten: Labour has to learn what he got right | Julian Coman
					

Boris Johnson’s former aide understood the class dynamics of modern England. To regain the red wall, the left must too, says Guardian associate editor Julian Coman




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## JTG (Nov 17, 2020)

killer b said:


> Speaking of Freeman, how about this??
> 
> View attachment 239193
> 
> 'Write a column'


It's notable how many Guardian writers have rallied round Moore.
Just to be clear, 300+ Guardian employees wrote a letter regarding Moore's attacks on trans people and it was Moore who decided to dox them all online.
Three trans employees of the Guardian have left their jobs there in the last year because of the paper's editorial stance. Fuck Moore and anyone who supports her.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 17, 2020)

No shit...


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 18, 2020)

'I did something stupid for love and paid the price'

Not a problem with the content of the article particularly, more that the '80s Bounty advert-style photographs of her seem embarrassingly close to the Daily Expressish 'Female Policeman Turned Hot Bikini Model Jailed!' angle.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 18, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> 'I did something stupid for love and paid the price'
> 
> Not a problem with the content of the article particularly, more that the '80s Bounty advert-style photographs of her seem embarrassingly close to the Daily Expressish 'Female Policeman Turned Hot Bikini Model Jailed!' angle.


Dunno why we get so much Australian content on the British site


----------



## ska invita (Nov 23, 2020)

Guardian vision ^ ^ ^

Reality  v v v


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 23, 2020)

The reality looks a lot more fun


----------



## ska invita (Nov 23, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> The reality looks a lot more fun


All non-Guardian realities are a lot more fun


----------



## Flavour (Nov 24, 2020)




----------



## JimW (Nov 24, 2020)

Flavour said:


> View attachment 240279


Robs the lead and altar furniture?


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 24, 2020)

Good god!


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2020)

I quite enjoy wandering around a church, if it's of sufficient historical significance.


----------



## JimW (Nov 24, 2020)

Santino said:


> I quite enjoy wandering around a church, if it's of sufficient historical significance.


Yes, or just the architecture or other features; visited a disused one tucked away not far past Usk a couple of times because it has a rood screen that survived the Reformation and Cromwell.


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2020)

JimW said:


> Yes, or just the architecture or other features; visited a disused one tucked away not far past Usk a couple of times because it has a rood screen that survived the Reformation and Cromwell.


Have you ever gone and fetched a key from a local shop to unlock a church? Such a buzz.


----------



## JimW (Nov 24, 2020)

Santino said:


> Have you ever gone and fetched a key from a local shop to unlock a church? Such a buzz.


Similar but it was a farmhouse/B&B IIRC, think it was the chapel down by Owlpen with a perfectly round graveyard which is apparently a Saxon rare survival but just done a search and that doesn't look right.
ETA Ah, think this was it Church of St Nicholas of Myra, Ozleworth, Gloucestershire


----------



## brogdale (Nov 26, 2020)

Like it's any different to any other fucking November


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2020)

They're semi-literate
Four hundred and 43? Wtf? Ability to write English clearly not an essential skill at the guardian


----------



## belboid (Dec 1, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> They're semi-literateView attachment 241364
> Four hundred and 43? Wtf? Ability to write English clearly not an essential skill at the guardian


aah, when style guide rules clash, it's always ugly


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 1, 2020)

belboid said:


> aah, when style guide rules clash, it's always ugly


The _Guardian_'s insane vendetta against coherently capitalised words continues to cost lives like a resurgent tilaban


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 2, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> All work is exploitation



Really? Don't become ill, the exploited doctor has quit, ditto the nurse.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 2, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Really? Don't become ill, the exploited doctor has quit, ditto the nurse.


You think nurses and doctors aren’t exploited?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 2, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> You think nurses and doctors aren’t exploited?



I think that it is always an employment of choice. Can't say that about all the jobs I've had in my life, many were necessity.

To answer your question, undoubtedly, but generally in terms of unpaid overtime. No on ever went home on time when all hell had broken loose.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 2, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> I think that it is always an employment of choice. Can't say that about all the jobs I've had in my life, many were necessity.
> 
> To answer your question, undoubtedly, but generally in terms of unpaid overtime. No on ever went home on time when all hell had broken loose.


Not sure what your point is then as you agree that work is exploitation


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 2, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Not sure what your point is then as you agree that work is exploitation



Of course I don't, don't be ridiculous. Work is a necessity if you want to live.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 2, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Of course I don't, don't be ridiculous. Work is a necessity if you want to live.


And how does that contradict the fact that work is exploitation?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 2, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> And how does that contradict the fact that work is exploitation?



Go and peddle your 'philosophy' to someone who is interested.

As I now don't do it, work is of zero interest.  

That said...


----------



## Humberto (Dec 2, 2020)

That said what, you're alright Jack?


----------



## two sheds (Dec 2, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Go and peddle your 'philosophy' to someone who is interested.
> 
> As I now don't do it, work is of zero interest.
> 
> That said...



Me neither, but we do still need other people to work for us.

So one question is what we do for people who are exploited when they work for us.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 2, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Go and peddle your 'philosophy' to someone who is interested.
> 
> As I now don't do it, work is of zero interest.
> 
> That said...


it's not a philosophy - you just don't understand what exploitation is. work is exploitation - it's not an opinion. if you have no interest in work, why are you banging on about it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 2, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Really? Don't become ill, the exploited doctor has quit, ditto the nurse.


can't get over the idiocy of this comment


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Really? Don't become ill, the exploited doctor has quit, ditto the nurse.


You've not grasped the exploitation central to the employer / employee relationship


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> can't get over the idiocy of this comment


You never will, not even if you live a thousand years like sas has


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 2, 2020)

especially when he's also said this:


Sasaferrato said:


> Work is a necessity if you want to live.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 3, 2020)

Sasaferrato said:


> Of course I don't, don't be ridiculous. Work is a necessity if you want to live.


Not necessarily your own of course.


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 3, 2020)

8115 said:


> Cummings should not be forgotten: Labour has to learn what he got right | Julian Coman
> 
> 
> Boris Johnson’s former aide understood the class dynamics of modern England. To regain the red wall, the left must too, says Guardian associate editor Julian Coman
> ...


What's terrible about that article?
It's not very good - too waffly and does not get to the bones of the issue - and I'd argue with some of the points it makes but there are far, far worse pieces than this one.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 3, 2020)

A revealing gem...


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 3, 2020)

brogdale said:


> A revealing gem...
> 
> View attachment 241627



Be fair, though - he's being 'newly frugal' now, spending under £50 a day.


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 3, 2020)

For Sasaferrato







It doesn't matter whether you're doing a job you love, a job you hate; whether it's easy with a pleasant working environment, or endless back-breaking toil while wading in shit; whether you get loads of holidays and "a fair day's wage for a fair day's work"... when your employer makes a profit from your labour (i.e. extracts surplus value), then it's exploitation.


----------



## stavros (Dec 5, 2020)

William v Harry: are princes in a charity work battle royal?


----------



## Sue (Dec 6, 2020)

stavros said:


> William v Harry: are princes in a charity work battle royal?


I was hoping for something a bit more like this:









						Battle Royale (film) - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 6, 2020)

Sue said:


> I was hoping for a bit more of this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It might happen Nepalese royal massacre - Wikipedia


----------



## billy_bob (Dec 6, 2020)

If Boris Johnson is to unsettle Starmer, he must first...

Offering Tory PMs advice now


----------



## agricola (Dec 12, 2020)

Good old Grauniad (or at least I hope this is a typo):



> The 900sqm apartment, which includes a shower room and open-plan living space, was too compact for structural changes. “I had to delve into my bag of tricks,” she says. There’s a lot you can do with pattern and colour. It was a large challenge in a small space.











						Tales of the riverbank: a small flat on the Thames that sparkles
					

Unusual colours, watery patterns and jewel-like details bring ebb and flow to this Docklands property




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## kabbes (Dec 12, 2020)

Bag of dicks?


----------



## agricola (Dec 12, 2020)

kabbes said:


> Bag of dicks?



going to need a lot of dicks for 900 sq m


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 12, 2020)

Even 90sqm is not ungenerous for a modern flat, most one beds in London are around 50 or 60. A lot of terraced houses around the same too.

(eta for clarity 900 sq ft which is probably what they meant is roughly 90 sq m, you just divide by ten and it’s in that ballpark - actual figure 10.7 something)


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Dec 12, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> Even 90sqm is not ungenerous for a modern flat, most one beds in London are around 50 or 60. A lot of terraced houses around the same too.



yes - since i'm not quite sure what a square metre looks like, i've just had a look on an estate agent website, and found what strikes me as an average 2 bed flat (post war woolwich borough council build) - it's 54 sqm / 581 sq ft.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2020)

A corker today - an exclusive England’s Covid test and trace relying on inexperienced and poorly trained staff

But what's this? 28 Oct - six weeks back: How teenagers ended up operating crucial parts of England’s test and trace system | George Monbiot


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 14, 2020)

guardian film hack offhandedly trashes Barbara Windsor's entire career because she stopped making the sort of art that middle class journos approve of - ignoring the fact that she fully embraced - and excelled - in her roles in carry on and east enders and that they were the foundation of her success and popularity. 

Before Carry On typecast her, Barbara Windsor was a brilliant kitchen sink star | Peter Bradshaw



> Windsor did great work on stage for Joan Littlewood but (like another Littlewood alumnus, Harry H Corbett) she went into more undemanding comedy.


yeah cos comedy - and presumably TV soaps as well - are "undemanding" not like proper acting.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 14, 2020)

Setting aside the seriously high Covid infection rates shown across South Wales   ....who knew that the good folk of Bristol had been engaged in such an impressive land reclamation project?


----------



## Jay Park (Dec 14, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Setting aside the seriously high Covid infection rates shown across South Wales   ....who knew that the good folk of Bristol had been engaged in such an impressive land reclamation project?
> 
> View attachment 243493



built on the foundations of the Colston statue of course


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 14, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Setting aside the seriously high Covid infection rates shown across South Wales   ....who knew that the good folk of Bristol had been engaged in such an impressive land reclamation project?
> 
> View attachment 243493


Made from all those statues of dead slavers


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 14, 2020)

That's the glow from all the nuclear dumping


----------



## brogdale (Dec 14, 2020)

Every so often, they'll get things right, I suppose?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Every so often, they'll get things right, I suppose?
> 
> View attachment 243532


Stopped clock etc


----------



## Albert (Dec 14, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Setting aside the seriously high Covid infection rates shown across South Wales   ....who knew that the good folk of Bristol had been engaged in such an impressive land reclamation project?
> 
> View attachment 243493


Possibly bad form linking to twitter but this is an interesting thread explaining the strange shape.The city of Bristol boundary extends into Wales.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2020)

Headline:
Life has got worse since Arab Spring, say people across middle East.

Sort of suggests that this is _because _they stood up to the rulers rather than the issues that drove them to rebel not yet being fixed. Sort of backed up in the content of the thing they're reporting on. When bill gates is on your extreme left, ask yourself why and how.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 21, 2020)

Good news everyone, we're one big step closer to locating MH370 and/or Shergar.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 21, 2020)

JimW said:


> Yes, or just the architecture or other features; visited a disused one tucked away not far past Usk a couple of times because it has a rood screen that survived the Reformation and Cromwell.


My gran's church (she lives across the road from it) has s cannonball from the civil war sitting on a ledge. Supposedly there were stained glass windows that were removed for safe keeping so Cromwell didn't smash them or burn the church down, but nobody could find them afterwards so the windows are plain to this day. I've never completely believed the tale.

There is a secret passage around the manor house next door though


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 21, 2020)

agricola said:


> Good old Grauniad (or at least I hope this is a typo):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now corrected to 60 sqm (which is actually not bad for a 1-bed flat).


----------



## belboid (Dec 22, 2020)

Ever reliable


----------



## Sue (Dec 26, 2020)

‘I'm getting clarity, a time that will feel lighter’: psychics share their 2021 predictions
					

From astrology to tarot, interest in the mystical arts has flourished during the pandemic. So what is in store for the year ahead?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## albionism (Dec 27, 2020)

Lost the plot.








						This was the year Australia restored trust in its politics – and that really is a miracle | Katharine Murphy
					

A large measure of collaboration and competence in dealing with the pandemic gave Australians reason to believe in their democracy again




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 29, 2020)

Nine years ago, but somehow that makes it worse, that it has lasted nearly a decade without correction.



I mean, the very first commenter spotted it (within an hour of publication!)...


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 1, 2021)

Laughably bad piece from the dreadful Simon Tisdale, based more of liberals own political wishes than any real analysis


> The appointments Biden makes to his cabinet presage a return to multilateralism and a re-set of the rules-based international order. His flagship initiative is a new “alliance of democracies”.
> 
> This appears intended to counter China while avoiding head-on confrontation with Beijing. Ties with other authoritarian regimes, such as Saudi Arabia, will be frostier. New trade deals, such as that sought by the UK, are on hold pending a US recovery, he says.


And what the hell has Nicola Surgeon done to offend the cartoonist?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2021)

I thought this was an Onion headline at first:





						Men play with gender norms in lockdown with return of man bun | Men's hair | The Guardian
					

From Jude Law to Paul McCartney, divisive hipster hairstyle makes a comeback




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 8, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought this was an Onion headline at first:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The main question here is why a supposed 'quality' paper has an entire subsection entitled 'Men's hair'.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/jan/08/readers-hangover-cures-10-ways-to-beat-the-post-booze-blues-from-radiohead-to-rollmop-vinegar 

Listening to Amnesiac quietly while pinching a pressure point on one's hand is surely the most Guardian hangover cure imaginable. Presumably only works if one loosens one's man bun first.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 14, 2021)

Just so fucking sloppy...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2021)




----------



## belboid (Jan 15, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 249041


It’s always Christmas at that school


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 17, 2021)

Fawning puff piece on a member of the royal famlly - yuck:








						'Technophobe' Camilla clicks with Zoom and finds favour under Covid
					

From reading poetry to Strictly to Woman’s Hour, the Duchess of Cornwall is tapping into wider audiences online




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Jan 22, 2021)

Interesting thread here from a former Graun writer detailing how the Graun went in to bat against him on behalf of notorious plagiarist and fabricator Johann Hari when he wrote an article criticising Hari's book about mental health


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2021)

killer b said:


> Interesting thread here from a former Graun writer detailing how the Graun went in to bat against him on behalf of notorious plagiarist and fabricator Johann Hari when he wrote an article criticising Hari's book about mental health



Great spot. Needs on the hari thread too.


----------



## Cerv (Jan 22, 2021)

never stops being funny when someone will post 39 tweets and not stop to think maybe twitter's just the wrong format for that


----------



## killer b (Jan 22, 2021)

It's not ideal, but they do get shared and read on twitter - or he could have written a blog post with the same info that no-one read or shared I guess.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 24, 2021)

It's not activity he needs, it's a time machine.

(here)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 24, 2021)

Cerv said:


> never stops being funny when someone will post 39 tweets and not stop to think maybe twitter's just the wrong format for that


Big fan vibes for Seth Abramson then


----------



## emanymton (Jan 27, 2021)

Someone got paid to write this!!









						Jigsaw puzzles make you smarter – and I’m living proof | Arwa Mahdawi
					

Should I worry about my addiction to 1,000-piece brainteasers? Not according to the scientists, writes Guardian columnist Arwa Mahdawi




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## NoXion (Jan 27, 2021)

Do they still employee people at the Guardian to do the headlines? Because that one is god-awfully smug. Checked it out and Jesus is it short. Three paragraphs? Are they paid by the word or by the article?


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jan 27, 2021)

Lockdown cabin fever? 56 tried, tested and terrific ways to beat the boredom
					

Shaun Ryder keeps chickens, while Mel Giedroyc organises chutney tastings. These small, affordable suggestions won’t end lockdown misery – but they might help




					www.theguardian.com
				




Mostly pricey and/or pretentious bollocks


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2021)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Lockdown cabin fever? 56 tried, tested and terrific ways to beat the boredom
> 
> 
> Shaun Ryder keeps chickens, while Mel Giedroyc organises chutney tastings. These small, affordable suggestions won’t end lockdown misery – but they might help
> ...


Tbh they seem from a quick glance to be mostly cheap or free and rarely pretentious. But few of them appeal to me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 27, 2021)

This one seems manageable and realistic.


> I recommend dedicating yourself, as I have done, to unsubscribing from all the email lists that you have signed up to that no longer fulfil your needs or that signed you up without a by-your-leave. Next, I plan to find, flatten and fold every carrier bag in the house and relocate them to one easy-to-access spot, that they may one day fulfil their porting destiny. I have no plans after that. _Lucy Mangan, Guardian TV critic_


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 27, 2021)

Hurry now, folks - tickets are sure to be selling out fast


----------



## steveo87 (Jan 27, 2021)

I've nothing to add to the thread specifically, but Barry Glendenning's faux-curmudgeon schtick really gets on my wick.


----------



## planetgeli (Jan 27, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> Hurry now, folks - tickets are sure to be selling out fast
> 
> View attachment 251631



I 'liked' that post but only because there isn't a vomit emoji within my limited technical skills.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 27, 2021)

planetgeli said:


> I 'liked' that post but only because there isn't a vomit emoji within my limited technical skills.



If anyone ever wants to burn a representative of everything the Guardian is and stands for in a giant wicker effigy, I reckon Dowling would be the perfect choice.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 1, 2021)

its just standard, but still funny/tragic to read, a Guardian Editorial piece, reflecting on and advising the Starmerite adults in the room








						The Guardian view on Labour's advance: halted but not reversed | Editorial
					

Editorial: Sir Keir Starmer needs to tell a story about why Labour is better for Britain than the Conservatives




					www.theguardian.com
				



My favourite line is " _Mr Johnson understands this with a message of “building back better”. Sir Keir’s argument could be to “build back fairer”. "_
Powerful stuff. At least they didn't say Britain is Already Great.


----------



## Gasmantell (Feb 1, 2021)

Giving Kath Viners boyfriend, the talentless Adrian Chiles,  regular column space is particularly galling - makes it difficult to swallow any views they may have on cronyism...


*Latest annual report by The Guardian:*

“The Group paid £18,000 to the partner of one director (2019 nil) for services rendered to Guardian News and Media Ltd in the normal course of business at arm’s length”


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 1, 2021)

ska invita said:


> its just standard, but still funny/tragic to read, a Guardian Editorial piece, reflecting on and advising the Starmerite adults in the room
> 
> 
> 
> ...



'Just nick the other side's narrative and tweak it to make it a bit nicer' is unbelievably poor advice, _even _if you truly believe that all Labour needs to be is the other side but tweaked to be a bit nicer. Blairism was the other side but tweaked to be a bit nicer, but at least the pre-1997 team had enough grasp of strategy not to make that their fucking slogan.

It's still ceding control of the narrative: many people will just say 'Well obviously "better" can include fairer, so what's the point changing governments over it?' And the rest of us will say 'Well, obviously that's bollocks because "better" doesn't even include better with this government. But on the hand, you're right about 'what's the point?'"


----------



## oryx (Feb 1, 2021)

> In the next few months, Sir Keir needs to develop a narrative around the biggest problems facing Britain. The government’s Brexit deal looks bad for almost everyone outside the City. Labour has not said how it can improve the deal. The UK risks breaking up, a threat that needs more than a commission.



So...Brexit and Scottish independence.

Nothing about Covid, post-Covid or austerity and the brutal cuts being imposed on local government?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 1, 2021)

oryx said:


> So...Brexit and Scottish independence.
> 
> Nothing about Covid, post-Covid or austerity and the brutal cuts being imposed on local government?


not only that, but 'has to develop a narrative'? as mrs model says, no parliamentary party seems to do politics any more, they all seem to dance about seeing what might win them votes rather than having any actual principles. what sir keir starmer _ought_ to do is to lay out how his principles have influenced his policies on the great matters of the day: but as he's bereft of any such things he'll fumble about in boris johnson's wake.


----------



## Sue (Feb 1, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> not only that, but 'has to develop a narrative'? as mrs model says, *no parliamentary party seems to do politics any more*, they all seem to dance about seeing what might win them votes rather than having any actual principles. what sir keir starmer _ought_ to do is to lay out how his principles have influenced his policies on the great matters of the day: but as he's bereft of any such things he'll fumble about in boris johnson's wake.



Tbf, that's not exactly a new thing...


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 1, 2021)

Sue said:


> Tbf, that's not exactly a new thing...


no indeed, but that point was solely to form the basis for the remainder of the argument, it's not the argument in itself.


----------



## Sue (Feb 1, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> no indeed, but that point was solely to form the basis for the remainder of the argument, it's not the argument in itself.


I was struggling with the 'principles' bit too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 1, 2021)

Sue said:


> I was struggling with the 'principles' bit too.


sir shit stirrer doesn't struggle with them, he feels much happier since he jettisoned them


----------



## TopCat (Feb 1, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> Hurry now, folks - tickets are sure to be selling out fast
> 
> View attachment 251631


Hadley seemed to just write sub sex and the city shite on fashion. Then (maybe someone was off sick?) she started writing vacuous nonsense on the news. Lots of fashionable personal problems like being born into a family of millionaires. 

Tim Dowling. Does he mean all this shit? Why not just leave your fucking wife you tit. 

This event deserves a full can of Mace.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 1, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> not only that, but 'has to develop a narrative'? as mrs model says, no parliamentary party seems to do politics any more, they all seem to dance about seeing what might win them votes rather than having any actual principles. what sir keir starmer _ought_ to do is to lay out how his principles have influenced his policies on the great matters of the day: but as he's bereft of any such things he'll fumble about in boris johnson's wake.



Totally agree he ought to do this first. But if people didn't respond to narratives more than they do to policies and their actual impact, or even to principles, they'd never vote against their interests. In fact millions fewer would vote Tory in the first place. We can but dream of the day when someone in the Labour party can both do politics and explain their politics persuasively at the same time ...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 1, 2021)

I wonder how many years of Starmer doing fuck all it will take for the centrist dads to realise he's really not the one to save us from endless tory rule after all.


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 1, 2021)

Er... never. They'll never realise fuck all.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 1, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> I wonder how many years of Starmer doing fuck all it will take for the centrist dads to realise he's really not the one to save us from endless tory rule after all.


He's showing that he's STATESMANLIKE though - true Prime Ministerial material - by not criticizing Johnson when Johnson makes minor infringements of the rules. 

Or Johnson being largely responsible for the deaths of 100,000+ people, best not to criticize him then either just to be safe.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 1, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Er... never. They'll never realise fuck all.



Yes, that was the joke. Although it's not much of a joke really is it.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 2, 2021)

Well they'll realise when he loses an election. 

But then they'll decide the problem was that he was just a bit too radical, he wasn't Starmer-y enough.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 2, 2021)

Hey, I've got an idea. After Starmer loses the next general election, let's start a grassroots campaign to get a 'proper left-winger' from the backbenches onto the ballot paper for the resultant leadership contest.

Why has no one thought of this before?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 2, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> Hey, I've got an idea. After Starmer loses the next general election, let's start a grassroots campaign to get a 'proper left-winger' from the backbenches onto the ballot paper for the resultant leadership contest.
> 
> Why has no one thought of this before?


Because even the plw from the backbenches are notably to the right of red jim callaghan, michael foot and even neil kinnock on a range of issues


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 2, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Because even the plw from the backbenches are notably to the right of red jim callaghan, michael foot and even neil kinnock on a range of issues



What? You mean not everyone to the left of Ed Miliband is a communist?


----------



## stavros (Feb 2, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> What? You mean not everyone to the left of Ed Miliband is a communist?



If I remember the popular press of ten years ago or so, a good few communists were to the right of Comrade Ed.


----------



## shambler (Feb 3, 2021)

For those who have tired of the Guardian. I cannot vouch for how 'clean' it really is, but this Firefox extension "paywall bypass clean" that someone recommended me a couple of weeks ago seems to genuinely work to remove - literally all - online newspaper paywalls.

So now, the news is still shit, but I'm enjoying a greater variety of newer and less familiar shit.






						Bypass Paywalls Clean – Get this Extension for 🦊 Firefox (en-GB)
					

Download Bypass Paywalls Clean for Firefox. Bypass Paywalls of (custom) news sites




					addons.mozilla.org


----------



## belboid (Feb 3, 2021)

shambler said:


> For those who have tired of the Guardian. I cannot vouch for how 'clean' it really is, but this Firefox extension "paywall bypass clean" that someone recommended me a couple of weeks ago seems to genuinely work to remove - literally all - online newspaper paywalls.
> 
> So now, the news is still shit, but I'm enjoying a greater variety of newer and less familiar shit.
> 
> ...


it's a fine addon, massively worth it.  It does miss a few things out though (tho nothing important I can recall offhand)


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 3, 2021)

the redditors trolling the hedge funds is the same as  the trump-nazis storming the capitol apparently ...

Why the GameStop affair is a perfect example of 'platform populism' | Evgeny Morozov


----------



## IC3D (Feb 3, 2021)

Have we had the depressed guide dogs piece today. Must be tongue in cheek.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 6, 2021)

Ah yes, those'll be the East or West Downs, then?


----------



## ska invita (Feb 7, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> the redditors trolling the hedge funds is the same as  the trump-nazis storming the capitol apparently ...
> 
> Why the GameStop affair is a perfect example of 'platform populism' | Evgeny Morozov


i think theres been a pretty incredible propaganda wave over this incident, seemingly every day there's weird analysis and misinformation put out about it across the press and US tv. The response is as interesting as what has happened in the first place. Naively I thought economics reporting was pretty much neutral and fact based, it turns out there's a huge amount of bias, shilling and rumour-as-fact repeating.

that guardian piece is weirder still though. whats blatantly missing from the piece is that the redditers immediately turned away from the appen masse, or are in the slow process of untangling their shares from it, and there's even a court case filed against it. that key element would've fitted the general point of the article of the false promise of such platforms, but would've confused the narrative that the reddit army is like trumps army. really strange


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 8, 2021)

steveo87 said:


> I've nothing to add to the thread specifically, but Barry Glendenning's faux-curmudgeon schtick really gets on my wick.



If that's the same Barry Glendenning of Hot Press, we'd a run in some 20 odd years ago.

Got it into his head that I'd dissed him and badmouthed me to a mutual friend.

Of course he ended up in the Graun.


----------



## platinumsage (Feb 8, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Ah yes, those'll be the East or West Downs, then?
> 
> View attachment 253147



Nominative determinism - perhaps she has a big garden.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 10, 2021)

A sorry tale of censorship:









						How the Media Cracks Down on Critics of Israel ❧ Current Affairs
					

<p>I was fired as a newspaper columnist after I joked about U.S. military aid to Israel on social media.</p>




					www.currentaffairs.org


----------



## Hyperdark (Feb 11, 2021)

Ive noticed lately they have a lot of links to old stories on the front page that if you dont know they are old can be misleading as when you click on them, the resulting page has no date, sloppy


----------



## Hyperdark (Feb 11, 2021)

"Hey, I've got an idea. After Starmer loses the next general election, let's start a grassroots campaign to get a 'proper left-winger' from the backbenches onto the ballot paper for the resultant leadership contest.

Why has no one thought of this before?"

No idea if your being serious but if you are i'm in


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 11, 2021)

Hyperdark said:


> Ive noticed lately they have a lot of links to old stories on the front page that if you dont know they are old can be misleading as when you click on them, the resulting page has no date, sloppy


They have a big yellow banner on them if they’re more than a few weeks old


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 11, 2021)

Hyperdark said:


> Ive noticed lately they have a lot of links to old stories on the front page that if you dont know they are old can be misleading as when you click on them, the resulting page has no date, sloppy


Such as... Show us an egregious example


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 11, 2021)

Hyperdark said:


> "Hey, I've got an idea. After Starmer loses the next general election, let's start a grassroots campaign to get a 'proper left-winger' from the backbenches onto the ballot paper for the resultant leadership contest.
> 
> Why has no one thought of this before?"
> 
> No idea if your being serious but if you are i'm in


?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 11, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> They have a big yellow banner on them if they’re more than a few weeks old


What's known in the journalistic world as a piss stain


----------



## brogdale (Feb 16, 2021)

tl/dr ....bunch of cunts!


----------



## stavros (Feb 16, 2021)

*Mates rates: which friend from Friends would make the best friend?*


----------



## Sue (Feb 17, 2021)

stavros said:


> *Mates rates: which friend from Friends would make the best friend?*


Which decade are we in? Hell, which _century_ are we in?


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 18, 2021)

Did have to laugh at this rather direct headline, today


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Did have to laugh at this rather direct headline, today
> 
> View attachment 254919


Keeping it classy.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 18, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Keeping it classy.



Mori is a terrible man, mind


----------



## TopCat (Feb 18, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Mori is a terrible man, mind


He is a sexist shit.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 18, 2021)

TopCat said:


> He is a sexist shit.



And tip of the very, very large iceberg, sadly


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2021)




----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2021)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 255098


One for an oxymoron thread


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> One for an oxymoron thread


& the poxy moron thread if it exists!


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2021)

This headline gave us our first belly laugh of the day.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 21, 2021)

I know I'm bang up for some meaningless platitudes.


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2021)

There does seem to have been a very strange reaction to that speech from the labour centrists on my radar - they all seem to think it's some knockout blow, and they seem genuine in their belief. 

It feels like political discourse right now is just a series of parallel realities that never actually meet anywhere. Has it always been this bad?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 21, 2021)

Yes.


----------



## kabbes (Feb 21, 2021)

killer b said:


> There does seem to have been a very strange reaction to that speech from the labour centrists on my radar - they all seem to think it's some knockout blow, and they seem genuine in their belief.
> 
> It feels like political discourse right now is just a series of parallel realities that never actually meet anywhere. Has it always been this bad?


If I were to ask the kabbess, who is a far-left sympathiser in principle and frequently a soft-left liberal in practice*, what she thought of Starmer's knockout speech, she would (a) need a moment to remember who Keir Starmer is; and (b) would have no idea what the speech was.


*e.g. has voted a combination of Labour (pre-Iraq and Corbyn), Lib Dem (post-Iraq, pre-coalition) and Green (coalition to Crobyn) in past elections

***
ETA: I just tested this theory.  She did actually know straight away who Starmer is but had no idea he had made a speech.  I told her what was in it and she just laughed and said, "I really liked Corbyn."


----------



## flypanam (Feb 22, 2021)

Apparently if you’re not centrist enough, you are a dumb dumb says boffin professor at Cambridge.








						People with extremist views less able to do complex mental tasks, research suggests
					

Cambridge University team say their findings could be used to spot people at risk from radicalisation




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 22, 2021)

flypanam said:


> Apparently if you’re not centrist enough, you are a dumb dumb says boffin professor at Cambridge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A big old dumb dumb with big dumb ravioli hands.


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 22, 2021)

flypanam said:


> Apparently if you’re not centrist enough, you are a dumb dumb says boffin professor at Cambridge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does the inability to see centrism as extreme in any way not have a high ranking on their dumbell score? If not, that's just stoooopid.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 22, 2021)

Yes I assumed they were talking about far right and people like the RCP, and certainly any centrists who support the inequalities in society as it is now. Didn't actually read the article though.


----------



## stavros (Feb 22, 2021)

flypanam said:


> Apparently if you’re not centrist enough, you are a dumb dumb says boffin professor at Cambridge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Without clicking on the link, I suspect that's an example of subs trying to summarise a complex cognitive study in ten words or fewer, and massively fucking it up. Reminiscent of the Mail and cancer.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 23, 2021)

3 words too many...


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 23, 2021)

brogdale said:


> 3 words too many...
> 
> View attachment 255796


you could lose another four if it only said 'PM pleads guilty'


----------



## two sheds (Feb 23, 2021)

and I know this will amaze many but he's lying  he's trying to spin it that he was asking challenging questions to those in power:



> The prime minister’s press secretary, Allegra Stratton, said Johnson was referring to the job of reporters in holding the government to account, saying: “That is the prime minister talking about the fact that you … as journalists your job is to constantly challenge and that’s something that makes all of us in government better.”



While it was of course: 



> But others may reflect on Johnson’s record of writing in derogatory terms about groups other than politicians without necessarily “putting yourself in the place of the person you’re criticising”.
> 
> In a 2018 column for the Daily Telegraph, he wrote that women who wore burkas were choosing “to go around looking like letter boxes” or “a bank robber”. In a 2002 column for the same newspaper, he described black people as “piccaninnies” and referred to “watermelon smiles”, language for which he later apologised but claimed had been taken out of context. In a 1998 column, again for the Telegraph, he used the phrase “tank-topped bumboys” to describe gay men.
> 
> ...











						Boris Johnson says he feels guilty about his journalism
					

During school visit prime minister reveals doubts over ‘abusing or attacking people’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 26, 2021)

Top story today: Blair says they should've been able to develop a vaccine in 100 days.

Notwithstanding trials, which necessarily take time because you're trying to judge if something that takes weeks or months to work actually works, 'they' did actually develop multiple vaccines in something like 100 days. I'm sure all those researchers who sweated blood to create vaccines on a world-record timescale will be delighted to hear that everyone's favourite war criminal has decided their efforts weren't good enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Top story today: Blair says they should've been able to develop a vaccine in 100 days.
> 
> Notwithstanding trials, which necessarily take time because you're trying to judge if something that takes weeks or months to work actually works, 'they' did actually develop multiple vaccines in something like 100 days. I'm sure all those researchers who sweated blood to create vaccines on a world-record timescale will be delighted to hear that everyone's favourite war criminal has decided their efforts weren't good enough.


maybe they could spend a few days deciding what they'd like to inject him with


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 26, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> maybe they could spend a few days deciding what they'd like to inject him with


----------



## mauvais (Mar 5, 2021)

Walker 'stunned' to see ship hovering high above sea off Cornwall
					

David Morris encounters rare optical illusion known as superior mirage while out on coastal stroll




					www.theguardian.com
				





> One potential clue that the sight is a mirage is the lack of any detail below the vessel’s waterline – for example a mirage of a “hovering” yacht lacked the lower hull and keel.


Yeah, or that fuck-off massive ships can't fly lads.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2021)

Dr Seuss 'cancelled'? There’s nothing new about cutting racism from children’s books
					

Pundits up in arms about removing offensive tropes from his books forget this is part of a long tradition, from Mary Poppins to Nancy Drew




					www.theguardian.com
				



The second person is of course 'you'. Speaking in the third person is what they mean.


----------



## ska invita (Mar 13, 2021)

How the fuck is this front page "news"?









						Ruth Davidson urges Scots to vote Tory to stop SNP majority
					

Vote for Scottish Conservatives in Holyrood election only way to halt push for independence, says leader




					www.theguardian.com
				




Ah it's Sunday so it's the Observer, but still Tory says Vote Tory is low even for them


----------



## stavros (Mar 14, 2021)

Davidson doesn't have to worry about such fripperies as elections now.

I suppose she's meant to be the Scottish Tory it's OK to like, up against, um, Michael Gove and Liam Fox.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 16, 2021)

stavros said:


> Davidson doesn't have to worry about such fripperies as elections now.
> 
> I suppose she's meant to be the Scottish Tory it's OK to like, up against, um, Michael Gove and Liam Fox.


She epitomises the the modern liberal.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2021)

TopCat said:


> She epitomises the the modern liberal.


She is the very model of the shameful modern liberal


----------



## rekil (Mar 18, 2021)

Mark Carney: ‘I didn’t want the Bank of England job. But I was asked to fix something’
					

He earned a fortune at Goldman Sachs, but now the banker wants the financial sector to reassess its values and tackle the climate emergency




					www.theguardian.com
				






Spoiler


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2021)

i wonder if only the guardian could illustrate a report on reproductive armageddon by 2050 with the picture of the author smiling








						Plummeting sperm counts, shrinking penises: toxic chemicals threaten humanity | Erin Brockovich
					

The chemicals to blame for our reproductive crisis are found everywhere and in everything




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## brogdale (Mar 19, 2021)

Proving, yet again, that the Grauniad can't get its words in the right order.

"It is..."


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 19, 2021)

Its been that time since 1649.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Mar 19, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> Its been that time since 1649.


1381


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 19, 2021)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> 1381


Wat?


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Mar 19, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> Wat?


Oh for a groan emoji. (Or is there one?)


----------



## stavros (Mar 19, 2021)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Oh for a groan emoji. (Or is there one?)



Or a Graun emoji.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Mar 19, 2021)

stavros said:


> Or a Graun emoji.


I'll have one of them an' all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2021)

So 12 cops injured in the headline but the first paragraph tells a different story


----------



## fieryjack (Mar 23, 2021)

latest in a long, long line of people going for a swim outside and thinking they've unlocked mystical doors of enlightenment

cold water swimming

this one has the usual unbearable solipsism and privilege, echoes of my tornado hell. An early highlight covers the introduction to cold water swimming being in Brittany, _in July_. I have been swimming in Brittany in July and it's not exactly Donegal conditions.


----------



## Sue (Mar 23, 2021)

Make mine a micro-job! Why working one day a week is the secret of happiness
					

The cheeriest employees are those who spend most of their time at leisure, research has confirmed. Is this the end of the 40-hour week?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## D'wards (Mar 23, 2021)

This made me laugh. Them posh nobheads at The Guardian do love an article about wild swimming. So sickeningly middle class.


----------



## albionism (Mar 24, 2021)

Today they published photos of 8 people wanted
by the police in connection with events in Bristol.
Fucking cunts.


----------



## Serge Forward (Mar 24, 2021)

"Rogues Gallery" style, again. I fucking hate the Guardian.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 24, 2021)

albionism said:


> Today they published photos of 8 people wanted
> by the police in connection with events in Bristol.
> Fucking cunts.


You can always rely on the Guardian to push police lies as the correct true narrative and to side firmly with the state in the face of protests.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2021)

TopCat said:


> You can always rely on the Guardian to push police lies as the correct true narrative and to side firmly with the state in the face of protests.











						Police in Bristol ‘feel under siege’ after second night of unrest
					

Rank-and-file officers’ leader says colleagues ‘battered and bruised’ after protest turned violent




					www.theguardian.com
				




So you'd be left with the impression police were attacked last night when what happened was police attacked a peaceful demo again


----------



## TopCat (Mar 24, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Police in Bristol ‘feel under siege’ after second night of unrest
> 
> 
> Rank-and-file officers’ leader says colleagues ‘battered and bruised’ after protest turned violent
> ...


Bristol is quite concentrated. Police behaviour has consequences that won’t dissipate quickly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Bristol is quite concentrated. Police behaviour has consequences that won’t dissipate quickly.


Remember: hands (gloves) face (mask) space (half-bricks).


----------



## elbows (Mar 24, 2021)

This ridiculous puff piece on Chris Whitty was so hideously over the top that I was already pointing and laughing at it, and then I got to a correction at the end:



> This article was amended on 22 March 2021. Professor Chris Whitty has not been knighted, as the headline and picture captions in an earlier version wrongly indicated.











						'A class act': Chris Whitty, the calm authority amid the Covid crisis
					

Plaudits abound for straight-talking chief medical officer, with one fan wishing ‘we could clone him’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Mar 24, 2021)

D'wards said:


> The Guardian do love an article about wild swimming. So sickeningly middle class.


Is swimming in rivers sickeningly middle class now? That is... not my experience of it tbh.


----------



## Brainaddict (Mar 24, 2021)

killer b said:


> Is swimming in rivers sickeningly middle class now? That is... not my experience of it tbh.


I think fetishising it as 'wild swimming' is. Everyone else just calls it swimming in a river.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2021)

This morning they managed to spell Biden as Blinken and it still hasn’t been corrected


----------



## planetgeli (Mar 24, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> This morning they managed to spell Biden as Blinken and it still hasn’t been corrected



That's because they're talking about US diplomat Anthony Blinken.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2021)

planetgeli said:


> That's because they're talking about US diplomat Anthony Blinken.


 It wasn’t mentioned in the article though


----------



## elbows (Mar 24, 2021)

I thought they were referring to blind Ken, their proofreader.


----------



## D'wards (Mar 24, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> I think fetishising it as 'wild swimming' is. Everyone else just calls it swimming in a river.


Quite


----------



## Serge Forward (Mar 24, 2021)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 24, 2021)

Get ready to cry your eyes out folks, this one's a real fucking tragedy.









						Buying a £5,000 bike from Poland has become a Brexit nightmare
					

I was asked for £2,000 more in duty and VAT to get it delivered




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## belboid (Mar 24, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Get ready to cry your eyes out folks, this one's a real fucking tragedy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The author isn’t completely stupid -

“In hindsight, it was perhaps a little rash spending £5,000 on a bike three days before the Brexit deadline.”


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 4, 2021)

Do you fancy taking an alpaca for a walk? Then join the queue…
					

With summer round the corner and lockdown easing, trekking companies are reporting record bookings




					www.theguardian.com
				



“Rosebud Alpacas in Devon offers alpaca yoga, alpaca gong baths, alpaca tai chi, alpaca reiki and alpaca camping”


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 4, 2021)

I'll pack a....bag?


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 4, 2021)

I wanna know if it’s the alpaca that does the reiki or the farmer


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 4, 2021)

Having said that I’d pay money to see an alpaca performing tai chi


----------



## planetgeli (Apr 4, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Do you fancy taking an alpaca for a walk? Then join the queue…
> 
> 
> With summer round the corner and lockdown easing, trekking companies are reporting record bookings
> ...



They'll be doing alpaca t-shirts next.

Or jumpers...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 4, 2021)

I would just like to hug an alpaca tbh. Or a capybara. I don't need either of them to have gongs. I don't think they have very good rhythm anyway.


----------



## Zabo (Apr 10, 2021)

May it please The Citizens to know that the tawdry rag, The Guardian, is inviting readers to send in their tributes and memories on their online form.  No mention of a prize. I would suggest _Peterloo _by Poole and Polyp. The Peterloo Massacre being of the time the rag was formed - as they are proud to boast. Such short memories...

Have a pleasant weekend.

🙂









						Share your tributes and memories of the Duke of Edinburgh
					

Prince Philip has died at the age of 99. Did you meet him? What effect did he have on your life?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## stavros (Apr 10, 2021)

The first thirteen pages of today's issue are on the subject of, "Old man dies".

Whilst the Independent went rapidly downhill once Lord Two Beards bought it, they did nonetheless stick to their mantra of not giving a fuck about the Windsors. I wish the Graun would do similar, as it can't just be the majority of Urban who regard them as at best inconsequential.


----------



## yield (Apr 10, 2021)

stavros said:


> I wish the Graun would do similar, as it can't just be the majority of Urban who regard them as at best inconsequential.


I don't think they're inconsequential.








						The Queen and her powers
					

How much real power does the Queen have? On the royal.gov.uk site which I'm reading it says: The formal phrase 'Queen in Parliament' is used to describe the British legislature, which consists of the Sovereign, the House of Lords and the House of Commons. The Queen's duties include opening each...




					www.urban75.net
				





Edie said:


> How much real power does the Queen have?





binka said:


> well obviously shape shifting is the big one but she can also dislocate her jaw and swallow her prey whole











						WTF? Prince Charles offered a veto over 12 government bills since 2005
					

Democracy in action.   Ministers have been forced to seek permission from Prince Charles to pass at least a dozen government bills, according to a Guardian investigation into a secretive constitutional loophole that gives him the right to veto legislation that might impact his private interests...




					www.urban75.net
				











						Royal 'cuts' could make Charles the richest king in British history
					

The Queen is set to become one of the wealthiest crowned heads in Europe after the future of the British monarchy was secured in a historic deal with the Government that will give the House of Windsor a share of the £210m profits from government estates relinquished by George III.




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 10, 2021)

they do seem to have shifted.

one royal thing (possibly william's wedding or maybe the jubilee or something) the front page of the guardian website had a link you could click to make all the royal stuff disappear completely


----------



## stavros (Apr 11, 2021)

They seem to have more fashion stuff recently too, in the main section rather than the Weekend magazine.


----------



## stavros (Apr 12, 2021)

I notice too that they've pussied out of opening any dead royal articles to comment, including two editorials.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 12, 2021)

what pisses me off is all of the Australian content


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 16, 2021)

So what?!









						Prince Philip: William and Harry to walk apart as Queen sits alone at funeral
					

Brothers will be separated by cousin Peter Phillips as they walk behind coffin, Buckingham Palace reveals




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## TopCat (Apr 16, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> So what?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Grotesque fawning shit.


----------



## Flavour (Apr 16, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> what pisses me off is all of the Australian content



There's fucking loads of it isn't there, NZ too. I get the feeling they use it as a buffer to fill up the gaps when there's nothing particularly interesting to say, and this lot down under are churning out article on whatever they feel like, without any need for uk correspondents to actually be there, while there is painfully little news regarding some of the more "important" parts of the world: India, Russia (except in relation to the West), non-English speaking Africa (unless there is some violence, phwoar), Mexico, etc


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 16, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Do you fancy taking an alpaca for a walk? Then join the queue…
> 
> 
> With summer round the corner and lockdown easing, trekking companies are reporting record bookings
> ...


For a moment I thought Rosebud Alpacas was going to be the name of the columnist.


Orang Utan said:


> what pisses me off is all of the Australian content


To be fair to Australian Guardian stuff, it was an Australian Guardian writer who gave us the single greatest Guardian moment ever.


Anyway, about a week old now, but this Guardian article on trade unions had some real gems:


> The new Unison leader, Christina McAnea, rightly accused McCluskey of “indulgence” this week after his criticism of Starmer. But Unison, like Unite, does not often have much to say about how unions can improve wealth creation either...
> 
> Imagine, post-pandemic, if a British political leader was to make the world of dignified work the backbone of an ethical appeal for a national fair deal crossing economic class and geographic divides. It could even happen under the Conservatives. Indeed it almost did so under Theresa May, when she began highlighting the failures of management and the case for employee empowerment in 2017.


I can't decide what's more upsetting, Unison's failure to contribute more to wealth creation, or the fact that Theresa May never got to put her grand plan to empower the working class into action.


----------



## rekil (Apr 16, 2021)

Employee Empowerment In The Streets, Wealth Creation in The Sheets.


----------



## rekil (Apr 16, 2021)

_Pic of starmer gazing forensically into the middle distance._


----------



## killer b (Apr 16, 2021)

Martin Kettle wanking on about dignified work is a bit rich


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 20, 2021)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 20, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> View attachment 264121


that is rather emetic


----------



## stavros (Apr 20, 2021)

*Fit in my 40s: am I fat-shaming my dog if we work out together?*


----------



## Sue (Apr 20, 2021)

Jesus. They don't call her Woe Zilliams for nothing.


----------



## Elpenor (Apr 24, 2021)

The good, the bad and the monarchy: why we’re still suckers for the royal fairytale | Alex von Tunzelmann
					

Prince Philip came to understand that the power of royalty lies in its stories – in heroes and villains, twists and turns, says historian Alex von Tunzelmann




					www.theguardian.com
				




Article rejected from Telegraph I assume


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 24, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> what pisses me off is all of the Australian content


Biggest liberal new site in Aus (or was when I left in 2017)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 24, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> what pisses me off is all of the Australian content


Scratch a soft green lib


----------



## JTG (Apr 24, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Scratch a soft green lib
> 
> View attachment 264656


Thank you for reminding me of this incredible tweet from the hapless Mr Hoyt


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 24, 2021)

JTG said:


> Thank you for reminding me of this incredible tweet from the hapless Mr Hoyt


Eight years, eight days and fifty-six minutes since that beauty first dropped


----------



## TopCat (Apr 25, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Scratch a soft green lib
> 
> View attachment 264656


What a cunt.


----------



## Thaw (Apr 26, 2021)

Joined up reporting

‘Insanely cheap energy’: how solar power continues to shock the world | Energy | The Guardian

doesnt mention the whole slave labour angle

Revealed: UK solar projects using panels from firms linked to Xinjiang forced labour | Solar power | The Guardian


----------



## JuanTwoThree (May 1, 2021)

I thought 'Tim Dowling can't be any worse than last time I was stupid enough to peek at his witterings'.

Oh yes he fucking can.


----------



## TopCat (May 1, 2021)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I thought 'Tim Dowling can't be any worse than last time I was stupid enough to peek at his witterings'.
> 
> Oh yes he fucking can.


It’s a weird and strangely popular column. Is any of it true? Why is he still married?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 1, 2021)

TopCat said:


> It’s a weird and strangely popular column. Is any of it true? Why is he still married?


I can't understand that column at all. I mean I am a boring middle aged middle class man but that doesn't mean I want to read about others and their boring lives. Quite the opposite tbh.


----------



## ska invita (May 5, 2021)

lol

out of interest,  anyone know who is currently writing the Guardians editorials? It used to be a remainiac woman whose name escapes me


----------



## Thaw (May 5, 2021)

The Guardian’s first ever edition – annotated | Media | The Guardian 

Their 200th anniversary. It turns out the 1st article was using terribly racist and sexist language


----------



## stavros (May 5, 2021)

Trying to excuse their coverage of "Old man dies".


----------



## ska invita (May 5, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> ]View attachment 264121


Looking into this a little , its published by Pluto, not the Guardian, and looks to be a critical take on the paper. How critical I don't know

Doubt its a patch on this though


----------



## Santino (May 5, 2021)

We've all had a bit of fun criticising The Guardian, but I think on its 200th anniversary it's only fair to say that, taking everything into consideration, I wish everyone who runs it would get diarrhoea.


----------



## platinumsage (May 5, 2021)

Did anyone mention their pro-slavery stuff yet?


----------



## oryx (May 5, 2021)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I thought 'Tim Dowling can't be any worse than last time I was stupid enough to peek at his witterings'.
> 
> Oh yes he fucking can.


In last weekend's 'Weekend', the article by the woman who knitted items out of pet hair was way more interesting than any of their regular columnists!

(I use the word 'interesting' loosely).


----------



## mauvais (May 7, 2021)

I don't know how someone got this past the committee but they're presumably being shopped out of all the historical office party photos as we speak.









						What we got wrong: the Guardian’s worst errors of judgment over 200 years
					

Fiercely critical of Abraham Lincoln and at times racist, this newspaper’s leader columns did not always get it right




					www.theguardian.com
				






Still no actual structural insight of course, like a 'few rotten apples' is to 'ACAB', from a publication that is institutionally ill-judged.


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2021)

Asbestos was a very real asset in the home,  it just turned out to have down sides.  It was used for 2000 years as the best flameproof material we had, though, before people started routinely living past 60 and the downsides became apparent.


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2021)

mauvais said:


> 'few rotten apples'


I dislike how this saying has been disconnected from it's actual meaning - when one says 'a rotten apple spoils the barrel', what we man is that the rot from a single bad fruit spreads to it's neighbours, making all of them inedible. It's about how corruption, if not nipped in the bud, will destroy an entire organisation.


----------



## fishfinger (May 7, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Asbestos was a very real asset in the home,  it just turned out to have down sides.  It was used for 2000 years as the best flameproof material we had, though, before people started routinely living past 60 and the downsides became apparent.


Even the Romans knew about the health risks of asbestos:



> The negative health effects of asbestos were also known to the Romans. Both Strabo and Pliny also mentioned the sickness that seemed to follow those who worked with asbestos. It was recommended never to buy asbestos quarry slaves as they often "died young". Lung ailments were a common problem to anyone who worked with asbestos fibres. Pliny even made reference to the use of a transparent bladder skin as a respirator to avoid inhalation of the dust by slaves.



Asbestos in the Roman Empire | UNRV.com


----------



## Pickman's model (May 7, 2021)

killer b said:


> I dislike how this saying has been disconnected from it's actual meaning - when one says 'a rotten apple spoils the barrel', what we man is that the rot from a single bad fruit spreads to it's neighbours, making all of them inedible. It's about how corruption, if not nipped in the bud, will destroy an entire organisation.


after 190 years i think it's fair to say that not only has the entire barrel become irredeemably fucked, so has the supply chain delivering new apples to the site


----------



## billy_bob (May 7, 2021)

How did the Guardian survive 200 years?

I was totally  on board with this article, until it became clear that the headline wasn't a rhetorical expression of dismay and they were actually going to answer it.


----------



## Cerv (May 7, 2021)

http://camdennewjournal.com/article/guardian-offices-attacked-with-pink-paint
		


I thought the Guardian's coverage of Extinction Rebellion & so on had been pretty sympathetic. but apparently not everyone a fan.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 7, 2021)

Cerv said:


> http://camdennewjournal.com/article/guardian-offices-attacked-with-pink-paint
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the Guardian's coverage of Extinction Rebellion & so on had been pretty sympathetic. but apparently not everyone a fan.


He dressed up proper as well.

eta: I am not sure why he is holding a carrot


----------



## butchersapron (May 7, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He dressed up proper as well.
> 
> eta: I am not sure why he is holding a carrot


This is the carrot. Choose wrong and the stick follows.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He dressed up proper as well.
> 
> eta: I am not sure why he is holding a carrot


After he was arrested the cops apparently went round to his house, searched the place, and took his computer. Don't fuck with the Guardian.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2021)

what's going on here?

how is +0 in the daily deaths an increase?


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> what's going on here?
> View attachment 267324
> how is +0 in the daily deaths an increase?


It's a comparison with the same day the previous week


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 8, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> After he was arrested the cops apparently went round to his house, searched the place, and took his computer. Don't fuck with the Guardian.



The _Graun_ SMT just asked to examine his hard drive is all


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's a comparison with the same day the previous week


Yes, I know. When apparently 15 people died. All the comparisons and afaik all the ups and downs relate not to the previous day but the same day last week (well the deaths and new cases, hospital occupancy on a different basis)


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> After he was arrested the cops apparently went round to his house, searched the place, and took his computer. Don't fuck with the Guardian.



As any keen line of duty watcher will know that's a section 18 search


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> As any keen line of duty watcher will know that's a section 18 search


It seems that they also arrested Valerie Brown for "conspiracy", who was the Burning Pink mayoral candidate whose campaign he worked for (and did the pink paint to protest about not being covered).

I mean it's not _actually_ going to be the Guardian pushing this, it'll just be the met using it as an excuse to harass activists because that's what they do. But it's funny if we say it's the Guardian.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It seems that they also arrested Valerie Brown for "conspiracy", who was the Burning Pink mayoral candidate whose campaign he worked for (and did the pink paint to protest about not being covered).
> 
> I mean it's not _actually_ going to be the Guardian pushing this, it'll just be the met using it as an excuse to harass activists because that's what they do. But it's funny if we say it's the Guardian.


The guardian covers lots of stuff I find interesting. But they deserve more than just pink paint


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2021)

Thread on Burning Pink here btw: Burning Pink


----------



## Cerv (May 8, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It seems that they also arrested Valerie Brown for "conspiracy", who was the Burning Pink mayoral candidate whose campaign he worked for (and did the pink paint to protest about not being covered).


she's coming dead last place out of 20 candidates with ~4000 votes
the lack of wall to wall coverage of her campaign may have been a fair reflection of the public interest.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2021)

Cerv said:


> she's coming dead last place out of 20 candidates with ~4000 votes
> the lack of wall to wall coverage of her campaign may have been a fair reflection of the public interest.


I don't think she expected to get a lot of votes.

(I voted first pref for her actually, on the basis that she was the only climate change candidate, it's the most important issue in the world at the moment, and nobody seems to give a shit. But obviously it's going to be Khan who wins.)


----------



## Cerv (May 8, 2021)

Sian Berry for the Greens doesn't count as a climate change candidate?
I gave her a vote for much the same reason you said


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 8, 2021)

Cerv said:


> Sian Berry for the Greens doesn't count as a climate change candidate?
> I gave her a vote for much the same reason you said


Less so than Brown, who was running on an explicitly climate change platform. I generally voted Green for everything else.


----------



## Serene (May 9, 2021)

Endless articles about Avocados and their health benefits ( for the middle class ). Also the dangers of cutting them. Knob by knob reviews of the actors and protagonists in Line of Duty. Twee, one thousand word essays on why Bethany left London to set up a yurt retreat in the Cotswolds. The Guardian is my favourite paper, but I feel I must list its downside. Long reads on `cryptocurrency`


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Endless article about Avocados and their health benefits ( for the middle class ). Also the dangers of cutting them.


Do you have a link?


----------



## Serene (May 9, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Do you have a link?


I dont read the online Guardian often, I buy it from the shops.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> I dont read the online Guardian often, I buy it from the shops.


You have a cat then


----------



## Serene (May 9, 2021)

Un Chat? Non. Pourquoi?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Un Chat? Non. Pourquoi?


The only reason to actually buy the paper is to line a litter tray


----------



## Serene (May 9, 2021)

Id buy the Daily Mail for that, ideally. Its more absorbent like Andrex.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Id buy the Daily Mail for that, ideally. Its more absorbent like Andrex.


I hope you won't tell us the way you've come to that conclusion


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Id buy the Daily Mail for that, ideally. Its more absorbent like Andrex.



I'd be concerned about cat being harmed by exposure to the toxic bullshit


----------



## Serene (May 9, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> I hope you won't tell us the way you've come to that conclusion


By putting you on permanent ignore. You have continued stalking me straight away since the last time I left here because of you.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> By putting you on permanent ignore. You have continued stalking me straight away since the last time I left here because of you.


Do you know, I'd forgotten all about you. You have no notion of what stalking is if you think this is it. So your ignore will be a blessed relief from your tedious turdery. May your current stay be as brief as your previous sojourn.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Endless articles about Avocados and their health benefits ( for the middle class ). Also the dangers of cutting them. Knob by knob reviews of the actors and protagonists in Line of Duty. Twee, one thousand word essays on why Bethany left London to set up a yurt retreat in the Cotswolds. The Guardian is my favourite paper, but I feel I must list its downside. Long reads on `cryptocurrency`



Don't forget the pretentious forays into French


----------



## Orang Utan (May 9, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Don't forget the pretentious forays into French


I can't remember reading any articles in French


----------



## TopCat (May 10, 2021)

Serene said:


> By putting you on permanent ignore. You have continued stalking me straight away since the last time I left here because of you.


Do you mean by stalking quoting your previous posts?


----------



## andysays (May 10, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Do you mean by stalking quoting your previous posts?


And now you've started as well

(and now I'm stalking you...)


----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2021)

Must give it go; I've stupidly eaten out in the road for 14 months.


----------



## platinumsage (May 16, 2021)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 268516
> 
> Must give it go; I've stupidly eaten out in the road for 14 months.



That sort of space-filling non-article is the reason I stopped buying newspapers about 15 years ago.


----------



## two sheds (May 16, 2021)

Along with a space filling article on page 13: "In come the blankets/ Rachel Cooke on the thrill of eating outdoors"


----------



## Pickman's model (May 16, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Along with a space filling article on page 13: "In come the blankets/ Rachel Cooke on the thrill of eating outdoors"


The thrill of it all


----------



## stavros (May 16, 2021)




----------



## BillRiver (May 16, 2021)

This thread has a lot of examples of _how_ The Guardian is going down the pan, but very little about _why._


----------



## Serge Forward (May 16, 2021)

Because it's shit.


----------



## Serge Forward (May 16, 2021)

Double post... for some reason.


----------



## Jay Park (May 16, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Because it's shit.



and so are those sneakers


----------



## billy_bob (May 17, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> This thread has a lot of examples of _how_ The Guardian is going down the pan, but very little about _why._


Because it decided to publish these examples, because it thought they were a good idea.


----------



## Serge Forward (May 17, 2021)

To be fair, it went down the pan 200 years ago.


----------



## JimW (May 17, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> This thread has a lot of examples of _how_ The Guardian is going down the pan, but very little about _why._


The narrating class has a lot to say, but none of it nothing worthwhile.


----------



## D'wards (May 18, 2021)

Shitting on harmless popular things people like, probably just because of those reasons 









						Shrek at 20: an unfunny and overrated low for blockbuster animation
					

The fairytale comedy was a hit with critics and audiences but its toilet humour, glibness and shoddy animation mark it out as a misfire




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## JimW (May 18, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Shitting on harmless popular things people like, probably just because of those reasons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Audiences liked it, critics liked it, be we think it failed. Do they understand how the entertainment industry works?


----------



## TopCat (May 18, 2021)

JimW said:


> Audiences liked it, critics liked it, be we think it failed. Do they understand how the entertainment industry works?


Populism is bad.


----------



## Elpenor (May 18, 2021)

Next article in the series: “why your happy childhood memory of a day out at the seaside is evil and wrong”


----------



## JimW (May 18, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Populism is bad.


Should have shot it in black and white with moody French actors not saying much.


----------



## hitmouse (May 18, 2021)

D'wards said:


> Shitting on harmless popular things people like, probably just because of those reasons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Harmless popular things that people like from 20 years ago, as well. Looking forward to their searing critique of Toxic by Britney or something equally as relevant.


----------



## brogdale (May 18, 2021)

Classic.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2021)

It is shit though, and the animation has not aged well


----------



## PR1Berske (May 18, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> This thread has a lot of examples of _how_ The Guardian is going down the pan, but very little about _why._





D'wards said:


> Shitting on harmless popular things people like, probably just because of those reasons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They posted a 350-word defence of "Dirty Grandpa" yesterday.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> They posted a 350-word defence of "Dirty Grandpa" yesterday.


BBC-style 'balance'


----------



## billy_bob (May 18, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Classic.
> 
> View attachment 269010


This is way more damning than having a stupid opinion on a cartoon. It's as if they pay people to be egregiously stupid about superficial stuff on purpose to distract from their more fundamental incompetence


----------



## AmateurAgitator (May 18, 2021)

WTF is their problem? Shrek was great.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 18, 2021)

stavros said:


> View attachment 268670



Ranganathan's setting himself up as a replacement for Tim Dowling in the increasingly likely event that the latter's wife finally puts him out of everyone's misery by dropping a toaster in his bath or something.


----------



## Cerv (May 18, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> WTF is their problem? Shrek was great.


"actually that thing you think is good is bad" is the epitome of clickbait that'll be shared all over social media. got to pay the bills somehow.


20 years and I still haven't gotten around to watching Shrek. time flies lol


----------



## Dystopiary (May 18, 2021)

They'd have loved Shrek if he'd lived in the home counties instead of a swamp.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 19, 2021)

Can't remember much about it but criticising the animation 20 years on is ridiculous. Might as well criticise the special FX  in The Wizard of Oz


----------



## krtek a houby (May 19, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> Next article in the series: “why your happy childhood memory of a day out at the seaside is evil and wrong”



They're coming for our memories!


----------



## krtek a houby (May 19, 2021)

Damn, there are a shitload of removed posts in the comments section.

Can't say anything these days.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 19, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Can't remember much about it but criticising the animation 20 years on is ridiculous. Might as well criticise the special FX  in The Wizard of Oz


No, if you look at hand drawn Disney films from 80 years ago, they look way better than the Dreamworks movies from 20 years ago


----------



## stavros (May 19, 2021)




----------



## Sue (May 19, 2021)

stavros said:


> View attachment 269189


The toddlers I know are more 'Wheels on the Bus' than Shostakovich.


----------



## two sheds (May 19, 2021)

that was one of his early ones


----------



## Dystopiary (May 19, 2021)

ttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/10/the-people-who-want-to-keep-masking-its-like-an-invisibility-cloak 

Incredibly, some people still want to wear masks with this virus still going round. Total weirdos!  
Thank goodness the Guardian's there to tell us.


----------



## Elpenor (May 22, 2021)

A trip to the dump is one of my great pleasures in life – and I’m not alone
					

Everything has its place at the dump, no matter how abject or broken. No wonder there were queues when it reopened after lockdown




					www.theguardian.com
				




The Guardian trying to appeal outside of its core market. Presume the journalist was told that going up the council tip is what people outside London do of a weekend for fun.


----------



## brogdale (May 23, 2021)

"...or..."


----------



## Pickman's model (May 23, 2021)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 269801
> 
> "...or..."


Pushing for electoral reform did wonders for the lib dems


----------



## stavros (May 23, 2021)

I don't blame the 17 year old who wrote this piece on whether to learn to drive or not; I do blame whoever edited it though:


----------



## JimW (May 23, 2021)

stavros said:


> I don't blame the 17 year old who wrote this piece on whether to learn to drive or not; I do blame whoever edited it though:
> 
> View attachment 269879


Yes, and a "cost not factoring in other costs" is poor sub editing too for my tastes, we abhor a repetition.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 23, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> A trip to the dump is one of my great pleasures in life – and I’m not alone
> 
> 
> Everything has its place at the dump, no matter how abject or broken. No wonder there were queues when it reopened after lockdown
> ...



Should have done some fact checking, then they'd know that it's called 'the tip' not 'the dump'.


----------



## mx wcfc (May 23, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Should have done some fact checking, then they'd know that it's called 'the tip' not 'the dump'.


Surprised they didn't call it "the recycling centre".


----------



## Orang Utan (May 23, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Should have done some fact checking, then they'd know that it's called 'the tip' not 'the dump'.


Must depend where you live as we call it the dump and so did Clive King


----------



## weltweit (May 23, 2021)

£2.20 is quite a price for a daily newspaper. 
Although I see now that the New European is selling for £3.00. 
The I is more reasonable.


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2021)




----------



## JimW (May 28, 2021)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 270637


That's not too bad if you mean the exact amount of time passed, think you get a few years' leeway for journalism and even for articles in the Guardian.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 28, 2021)

Dystopiary said:


> ttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/10/the-people-who-want-to-keep-masking-its-like-an-invisibility-cloak
> 
> Incredibly, some people still want to wear masks with this virus still going round. Total weirdos!
> Thank goodness the Guardian's there to tell us.



Yesterday I walked down a corridor at work without a mask on. It was a weird and unsettling experience, like one of those dreams where you've somehow shown up for work in just your underpants.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (May 28, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yesterday I walked down a corridor at work without a mask on. It was a weird and unsettling experience, like one of those dreams where you've somehow shown up for work in just your underpants.


Underpants? Not in my dreams.


----------



## Diamond (May 30, 2021)

I wonder if any insiders read this thread...?


----------



## krtek a houby (May 30, 2021)

Diamond said:


> I wonder if any insiders read this thread...?



Iirc, there have been a few freelancers pop up on urban, asking questions and being told where to go. Am half remembering one asking about the 80s/90s rave culture, not so long ago? Not sure if on this thread, mind.


----------



## Diamond (May 30, 2021)

I've always imagined Jonathan Wilson to be a potential reader...


----------



## equationgirl (May 31, 2021)

Diamond said:


> I wonder if any insiders read this thread...?


Yeah, I would say so, there's been enough unusual topics discussed over the years suddenly followed by an article in the media for them not to using urban as a source of ideas.


----------



## equationgirl (May 31, 2021)

Nice to see you by the way Diamond


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 1, 2021)

A very brief hiatus in my scorn to commend them for this


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 2, 2021)

"This is a winning picture. Could it be an election-winning picture? It makes Starmer more accessible because it is not so different from how he is now. He admitted in his interview with Morgan to still being proud of his hair."









						Sweet, sincere and humanising: could Keir Starmer’s oh-so-serious student picture win votes?
					

The Labour leader’s portrait from his Leeds University days reveals a young man with a vision, who might just appeal to that key electoral group: Joy Division dads




					www.theguardian.com
				




I mean, christ.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 2, 2021)

Literally jaw dropping article. They seem to have turned over politics comment to the fashion editor.


----------



## Santino (Jun 2, 2021)

The Red Wall will love this.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 2, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Literally jaw dropping article. They seem to have turned over politics comment to the fashion editor.


Two nights without sleep, some valium and a dictaphone perhaps?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2021)

Cringetastic.


----------



## killer b (Jun 2, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Literally jaw dropping article. They seem to have turned over politics comment to the fashion editor.


Jones is their art critic, reliably crushingly awful.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2021)

killer b said:


> Jones is their art critic, reliably crushingly awful.


Excruciatingly awful.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 2, 2021)

Fuck me that's drek. i didn't get past the first one and a half paragraphs.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 2, 2021)

teqniq said:


> Fuck me that's drek. i didn't get past the first one and a half paragraphs.


It's worth persevering, it gets much worse  I can't remember reading anything so fucking vacuous.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 2, 2021)

two sheds said:


> It's worth persevering, it gets much worse  I can't remember reading anything so fucking vacuous.


You are not selling it.


----------



## killer b (Jun 2, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Excruciatingly awful.


tbf his interview with Tracy Emin the other week was good, but it's literally the only thing I've ever read by him that wasn't stealing a living.


----------



## Ptolemy (Jun 2, 2021)

eatmorecheese said:


> "This is a winning picture. Could it be an election-winning picture? It makes Starmer more accessible because it is not so different from how he is now. He admitted in his interview with Morgan to still being proud of his hair."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I came to post this - as soon as I saw that the thread had been updated, I _knew_ it had to be this article.

What planet do these vacuous weirdos live on!?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2021)

Ptolemy said:


> I came to post this - as soon as I saw that the thread had been updated, I _knew_ it had to be this article.
> 
> What planet do these vacuous weirdos live on!?


Sadly they live on this one


----------



## two sheds (Jun 2, 2021)

I read it again to check whether there was a mention of policies  at self.

Amongst stiff competition, this is perhaps my favourite paragraph though, about the edgy photograph with a skull:



> Yet the look in Starmer’s eyes is sincere. While the other boy is lost in a gloomy reverie, the future politician has a fervent light in his eyes. He may be all too aware of his look, and his looks, but he also projects a romantic dream of some kind – nay, a vision. Young Keir appears to believe in some big idea or better future. He can see it.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 2, 2021)

Ok, against my better judgement I read a bit more. It's proper shite. Is he taking the piss?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2021)

two sheds said:


> I read it again to check whether there was a mention of policies  at self.
> 
> Amongar stiff competition, this is perhaps my favourite paragraph though, about the edgy photograph with a skull:


Sadness in his eyes


----------



## two sheds (Jun 2, 2021)

teqniq said:


> You are not selling it.





teqniq said:


> Ok, against my better judgement I read a bit more.



HA!!!!  

That article makes the whole thread worthwhile


----------



## Ptolemy (Jun 2, 2021)

Here's another shit article by Jones where he berates Terry Pratchett despite admitting he's never read a single one of his books.









						Get real. Terry Pratchett is not a literary genius
					

Life is too short to waste on ordinary potboilers – and our obsession with mediocre writers is a very disturbing cultural phenomenon




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## two sheds (Jun 2, 2021)

potboiler calling the kettleboiler black


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

Ptolemy said:


> Here's another shit article by Jones where he berates Terry Pratchett despite admitting he's never read a single one of his books.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And it gave them the chance to take up yet more space by publishing a response to their own journalism.









						Terry Pratchett's books are the opposite of 'ordinary potboilers'
					

The moral weight that Jonathan Jones says is missing in the Discworld novels is very much there – but to know this, you do actually have to read them




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 3, 2021)

_How can former northern Labour voters see him as a London elitist when he went to university in Yorkshire?_

The crux


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

teqniq said:


> Is he taking the piss?


He is, but doesn't even do that very well


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

He was right about Pratchett though fwiw


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 3, 2021)

"This is a winning picture. Could it be an election-winning picture? It makes Starmer more accessible because it is not so different from how he is now."

Best get forensics on the scene, then, that cold case may be warming up


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> He was right about Pratchett though fwiw


I could agree with you but I've never read him either.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 3, 2021)

I respectfully disagree, having read a lot of what he wrote. Awesome books.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 3, 2021)

I couldn't bring myself to read the Starmer hagiography past the first few lines - literally stomach-churning stuff.

I look forward to a Jackie-style comic strip in the next Saturday edition, with Angela Rayner batting her lashes unrequitedly at Starmer as he buckles some swash or other. With a big thought bubble reading 'My party leader is so dreamy...'


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> He was right about Pratchett though fwiw


Pratchett continues to offer me more insight into societies and human structures than any number of celebrated literature I could name.  I barely come across anything in social science that Pratchett hasn’t found a very human way to construct a metaphor for.  If you can’t see it, that’s on you, not him.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

two sheds said:


> I could agree with you but I've never read him either.


I've read loads of them. They're enjoyable formulaic genre fiction for the most part, probably a bit better and a bit more witty than most. Jones is a terrible snob and not as sophisticated as he imagines himself to be, but the pedestal Pratchett fans place him on is ludicrous and it's fine to try and puncture that from time to time.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

there we go


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 3, 2021)

Massive Pratchett fan myself,  He has the odd off moment like all authors but for the most part, his books are funny and witty with some insightful comment on the state of the world presented with humour. He clearly wrote his books to entertain not change the world and he succeeded in the first and didn't aim for the second. None of them have transfered well to other media though all the TV adaptions have been pretty dire.
As for the article about Starmer's university days and his band, I felt embarrassed reading it even though no-one could see me,  The person who wrote it is even more out of touch with the public mood than Starmer is.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> I've read loads of them. They're enjoyable formulaic genre fiction for the most part, probably a bit better and a bit more witty than most. Jones is a terrible snob and not as sophisticated as he imagines himself to be, but the pedestal Pratchett fans place him on is ludicrous and it's fine to try and puncture that from time to time.


It’s either ludicrous that loads of people put him on a pedestal or you’re just not getting it. This is left as an exercise for the reader.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

kabbes said:


> It’s either ludicrous that loads of people put him on a pedestal or you’re just not getting it. This is left as an exercise for the reader.


No, I got it. I guess I just feel differently to you how profound it all is. that's ok though, we're allowed to disagree about stuff.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> No, I got it. I guess I just feel differently to you how profound it all is. that's ok though, we're allowed to disagree about stuff.


You didn’t say we’re allowed to disagree.  You said that people with a different view to yours are “ludicrous”.  Which is it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2021)

kabbes said:


> You didn’t say we’re allowed to disagree.  You said that people with a different view to yours are “ludicrous”.  Which is it?


Can’t it be both?


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

kabbes said:


> You didn’t say we’re allowed to disagree.  You said that people with a different view to yours are “ludicrous”.  Which is it?


you said people with a different view to you 'don't get it'. I think that_ is_ ludicrous.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Can’t it be both?


I would say that at the moment you go out of your way to tell people that not only is "thing they like" actually "not good" but actually that it is _ludicrous_ that they should think "thing good", you are essentially removing the option of "agree to disagree".


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

I didn't say that it wasn't good, I said the pedestal his fans place him on is ludicrous. The kind of pedestal where people who don't think he's as wonderful as you do can be waved away as people who 'don't get it'


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2021)

I couldn't read Pratchett after Hitchhikers' Guide, I might have enjoyed them if I'd read them first.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> He clearly wrote his books to entertain not change the world and he succeeded in the first and didn't aim for the second.


is this true? I remember reading an interview with him many years ago where he was quite bitter at not being taken more seriously


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 3, 2021)

two sheds said:


> I couldn't read Pratchett after Hitchhikers' Guide, I might have enjoyed them if I'd read them first.



This, totally.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> I didn't say that it wasn't good, I said the pedestal his fans place him on is ludicrous. The kind of pedestal where people who don't think he's as wonderful as you do can be waved away as people who 'don't get it'


That's the kind of condescension that invites condescension in kind, not an invitation to live and let live.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

kabbes said:


> That's the kind of condescention that invites condescention in kind, not an invitation to live and let live.


Except you posted that I 'didn't get it' which was 'on me' before I posted the pedestal Pratchett fans place him on is ludicrous. Looks to me that I've got you guys fairly well pegged tbh.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> is this true? I remember reading an interview with him many years ago where he was quite bitter at not being taken more seriously


If so then he has failed abjectly, like I said I'm a big fan but I definitely have never taken his work remotely seriously.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> Except you posted that I 'didn't get it' which was 'on me' before I posted the pedestal Pratchett fans place him on is ludicrous. Looks to me that I've got you guys fairly well pegged tbh.


We posted at the same time, mine just got there slightly before yours.  You weren't responding to my post.  And I was responding to "thing you like is bad".  If you're going to say "thing you like is bad", you're inviting a response.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

Sure. And I was clarifying what I meant, while you were helpfully providing an example.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> Sure. And I was clarifying what I meant, while you were helpfully providing an example.


Right.  You think it is "ludicrous" that people "put him on a pedestal".  But also think that we should all agree to disagree.  Got it.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2021)

This is like that bit in Terry Pratchett where ...



Spoiler



you're on your own here lads I've not read them


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 3, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Right.  You think it is "ludicrous" that people "put him on a pedestal".  But also think that we should all agree to disagree.  Got it.



I quite often "agree to disagree" with people who think something that I find ludicrous. Precisely because I feel their opinion is too ludicrous to have an interesting or respectful debate about.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

I don't think we should agree to disagree at all. I think disagreement is good and should be embraced and participated in passionately.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2021)

killer b said:


> I don't think we should agree to disagree at all. I think disagreement is good and should be embraced and participated in passionately.


Isn't that agreeing to disagree though


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2021)

Agreeing to disagree isn't actually agreeing to disagree though, it's agreeing to stop arguing without a resolution. Which I suppose we'll do eventually anyway, but I'd rather do that out of boredom or something more important distracting me than some fake negotiated end of hostilities


----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2021)

Ah disagreeing to agree you mean.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 3, 2021)

Let's hope that someone spots something in the rag soon...


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 3, 2021)

I don't think everything Pratchett wrote was brilliant by any means. Some of the earlier ones are quite hardgoing, I found, but then he found his voice and they really take off. The Monstrous Regiment was particularly clever, and I really loved the ones about the witches and the town guards, and his few last books I really enjoyed (about the mint, the post office and the railways). The newspaper one was the last one I remember not liking.

So as with many authors I like, I don't think everything he wrote was pure genius. Not all fans place him on a pedestal killer b


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 3, 2021)

two sheds said:


> This is like that bit in Terry Pratchett where ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lads, eh?


----------



## Favelado (Jun 3, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Lads, eh?


Lads and lasses too Jimmy Savile though


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 3, 2021)

Favelado said:


> Lads and lasses too Jimmy Savile though


Shudder


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 3, 2021)

Let's all be lasses then!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 3, 2021)




----------



## two sheds (Jun 3, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Lads, eh?


Please feel free to join in


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

Seems i let the side down by wearing an old t shirt.  









						How to dress for your vaccine appointment | Jess Cartner-Morley
					

The one-shoulder top: not just good for getting a jab




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

It was the honour of my life (and I say that only semi-jokingly) to be able to dispatch the ambulance that took TP from Salisbury District Hospital back home for the last time (I assume - he died not too long afterwards). A life spent giving joy to millions and also giving tedious bores a chance to tell everyone how much more refined their tastes are so I think everyone here can be grateful to him for something anyway


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Lads, eh?


Isn't this the plot of Monstrous Regiment?

Anyway, 'lads' is increasingly used in a gender neutral sense these days. That's certainly how I use it


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Massive Pratchett fan myself,  He has the odd off moment like all authors but for the most part, his books are funny and witty with some insightful comment on the state of the world presented with humour. He clearly wrote his books to entertain not change the world and he succeeded in the first and didn't aim for the second. None of them have transfered well to other media though all the TV adaptions have been pretty dire.


That's because they all seem to have been made by people who made the mistake of thinking they were making a fantasy story


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Anyway, 'lads' is increasingly used in a gender neutral sense these days. That's certainly how I use it



Interesting that these terms that are apparently used in a gender-neutral sense always seem to be the male version of that term.  

Anyone know of any examples the other way round..?


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> Interesting that these terms that are apparently used in a gender-neutral sense always seem to be the male version of that term.
> 
> Anyone know of any examples the other way round..?


Babe?


----------



## TopCat (Jun 6, 2021)

two sheds said:


> I read it again to check whether there was a mention of policies  at self.
> 
> Amongst stiff competition, this is perhaps my favourite paragraph though, about the edgy photograph with a skull:


I could not read the article. Too cringing. The excerpt above, I mean what the fuck.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2021)

It does have to be a piss take, but even given that it's still a cringefest.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Babe?



That's not commonly used as a plural, the way "guys", "lads", etc. are. Not really equivalent.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 6, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> I couldn't bring myself to read the Starmer hagiography past the first few lines - literally stomach-churning stuff.
> 
> I look forward to a Jackie-style comic strip in the next Saturday edition, with Angela Rayner batting her lashes unrequitedly at Starmer as he buckles some swash or other. With a big thought bubble reading 'My party leader is so dreamy...'


Photo love story continues: Angela asks her friends for advice. “He wants me to do mucky things, be a red Tory but I feel so cheap”.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> Interesting that these terms that are apparently used in a gender-neutral sense always seem to be the male version of that term.



This is true, although I did use lads before because I hadn't noticed any lasses joining in the dispute.


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> That's not commonly used as a plural, the way "guys", "lads", etc. are. Not really equivalent.


Only one I can think of is 'ladies' but that's generally used in a negative sense when applied to men/a mixed group. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

two sheds said:


> This is true, although I did use lads before because I hadn't noticed any lasses joining in the dispute.


And maybe using it would make any women less likely to join in? Just a thought.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> Only one I can think of is 'ladies' but that's generally used in a negative sense when applied to men/a mixed group. 🤷‍♀️



I can think of lots of examples like that where the words are used negatively, but none that are truly equivalents of "lads" or "guys' which are generally thought to be neutral.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> And maybe using it would make any women less likely to join in? Just a thought.


Perhaps, although given the somewhat pointless nature of the dispute that would have been a positive.


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Perhaps, although given the somewhat pointless nature of the dispute that would have been a positive.


Good to know you're looking out for us  .


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

_shrug_

That's what the young people do Sue, even the girls. A great bunch of lads imo


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> _shrug_
> 
> That's what the young people do Sue, even the girls. A great bunch of lads imo


Interestingly, I was having this very discussion with some of the young women I work with the other day. They overwhelming don't like it at all --  working in a very male-dominated environment with lots of (un)conscious bias stuff going on might do that to you though.

So, not all young people. Not all 'girls'. Not even all young women it seems. But as a not young person, what do I know anyway, eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> Interestingly, I was having this very discussion with some of the young women I work with the other day. They overwhelming don't like it at all --  working in a very male-dominated environment with lots of (un)conscious bias stuff going on might do that to you though.
> 
> So, not all young people. Not all 'girls'. Not even all young women it seems. But as a not young person, what do I know anyway, eh?


We were all young once


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> We were all young once


I'm so old I often forget that.


----------



## maomao (Jun 6, 2021)

'guys' has been used as a gender-free plural address for a very long time. To me 'lads' still has too many associations with 90s lad culture and the phrase 'one of the lads' to be a problem free UK equivalent to 'guys' just yet.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2021)

I've done some research since we last had the 'lads' conversation, and found that while it's use for both genders is popular with very online ultra-ironic depressed millennials, it's widely misunderstood by almost everyone else, so probably best not bothering with.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> Good to know you're looking out for us  .


See, if I hadn't said that you might not have joined in at all  

We know these things you know :taps nose:


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

I asked my 19 year old niece about this. She says that her and her friends don't use "lads" or "guys" at all because of the inherent sexism. They prefer "peeps", "folks" or "everybody" and she doesn't think they are particularly unusual. She says the only people she knows who use "lads" are the "wannabe hipsters" who she can't abide.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> She says the only people she knows who use "lads" are the "wannabe hipsters" who she can't abide.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> We were all young once


 Once in every lifetime


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Once in every lifetime


some of us reach a second childhood, tho. but never a second adolescence.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 6, 2021)

"lads" in the instance concerned seemed to be ok to me as it was referring to two blokes internet-fighting

It isn't a generally acceptable group term, and more importantly is a bit sad and millennial. It's often used in the context of implying something is sad/millennial of course. Discourse is complex.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

I have consulted with my friend in Belfast and she tells me it's perfectly normal and acceptable over there.

I'm sorry you don't like it but it doesn't really change the fact that it's used in this way, especially in Ireland

Again _shrug_


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 6, 2021)

Reminds me of my dad who would always complain whenever anyone used the word “kids” to refer to children, on the basis that children are not baby goats.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

maomao said:


> 'guys' has been used as a gender-free plural address for a very long time. To me 'lads' still has too many associations with 90s lad culture and the phrase 'one of the lads' to be a problem free UK equivalent to 'guys' just yet.


My mate in Belfast also tells me the usage of "UK" is problematic, far more so than "lads"


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Reminds me of my dad who would always complain whenever anyone used the word ”kids” to refer to children, on the basis that children are not baby goats.


tbh this place is somewhat old fashioned and stuck somewhere in 2004 so that's probably about right


----------



## maomao (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> stuck somewhere in 2004



That late?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 6, 2021)

Loving all the people here who are still talking like millennials are young people. I'm a millennial and I'm easily old enough to be someone's grandfather.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

maomao said:


> That late?


I had to put it somewhere after the popularisation of message boards but before current school leavers were even born so that's about right tbh


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Loving all the people here who are still talking like millennials are young people. I'm a millennial and I'm easily old enough to be someone's grandfather.


The oldest millennials turn 40 this year. Which kind of highlights my point tbh


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

Urban is still sexist on occasion conciously or subconsciously, and like Sue it grates after a while. I also work in a male dominated industry where 'guys' is used, although that's less inherently problematic than 'lads'.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

Calm down lads, it's only language


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Urban is still sexist on occasion conciously or subconsciously, and like Sue it grates after a while. I also work in a male dominated industry where 'guys' is used, although that's less inherently problematic than 'lads'.


I also can't help but feel that men telling women what is/is not gender neutral/problematic isn't a great look.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Calm down lads, it's only language


Yeah, you try dealing with regular insults about your gender on a regular basis throughput your adult life then tell me how fucking funny it is


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Calm down lads, it's only language


And BOOM!


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> I also can't help but feel that men telling women what is/is not gender neutral/problematic isn't a great look.


Men dismissing women's opinions on the topic shocker.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

I mean, it's used this way by quite a few people of all genders, especially in Ireland for example. Go argue with them, I'm only reporting the facts here


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 6, 2021)

I usually say 'folks' is that OK? Dunno if it's a gender thing or what but 'guys' grates on me and 'lads' just makes me think of loud, unpleasant males in short-sleeved shirts.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

Sigh... Discussions like this are always handy for helping me identify the wankiest shits amongst any lads taking part.

(That's not aimed at you, SpookyFrank, by the way).


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> I usually say 'folks' is that OK? Dunno if it's a gender thing or what but 'guys' grates on me and 'lads' just makes me think of loud, unpleasant males in short-sleeved shirts.



Of course folks is fine, why wouldn't it be?


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> I usually say 'folks' is that OK? Dunno if it's a gender thing or what but 'guys' grates on me and 'lads' just makes me think of loud, unpleasant males in short-sleeved shirts.


It's interesting to me that several times I've mentioned the difference in usage in Ireland and this has been ignored. Imperialist mindset imo


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Of course folks is fine, why wouldn't it be?



I have no social skills and generally work on the assumption that anything I might say or think of saying is somehow wrong.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Of course folks is fine, why wouldn't it be?


It's OK if you want to refer to twee faerie types but you really need something stronger for normal people. Lads for eg


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> It's interesting to me that several times I've mentioned the difference in usage in Ireland and this has been ignored. Imperialist mindset imo



Maybe it's just not that interesting, relevant, or even true?


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> It's OK if you want to refer to twee faerie types but you really need something stronger for normal people. Lads for eg



It's ok you have identified yourself quite clearly already, you can stop now.


----------



## Sue (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> It's interesting to me that several times I've mentioned the difference in usage in Ireland and this has been ignored. Imperialist mindset imo


Well given the vast majority of us aren't Irish or in Ireland, it doesn't feel specially relevant.

Anyway, you're either an idiot, on a windup or both so whatever.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> It's ok you have identified yourself quite clearly already, you can stop now.


Reckon?


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> Well given the vast majority of us aren't Irish or in Ireland, it doesn't feel specially relevant.
> 
> Anyway, you're either an idiot, on a windup or both so whatever.


QED. Usage of English outwith Britain not interesting or important to you


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

Yawn...


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> It's interesting to me that several times I've mentioned the difference in usage in Ireland and this has been ignored. Imperialist mindset imo


It's not an imperialist mindset. It's great that it's fine to use in Ireland. But I am not in Ireland.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It's not an imperialist mindset. It's great that it's fine to use in Ireland. But I am not in Ireland.


My Scouse mate says she reckons it's fine there as well


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

Also, two women have said


JTG said:


> My Scouse mate says she reckons it's fine there as well


Also not there.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

Plus given they're your mates it's a bit of a self selecting group.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> My Scouse mate says she reckons it's fine there as well



My scouse mate says it isn't, and your scouse mate would be at risk of having their face rearranged if they tried it on in the company of most of the scouse women I ever met.

Same with the many Irish women I know.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

Look, two women have said they have a problem with 'lads' for a mixed gender group. Don't you see that you pushing your opinion that 'lads' is fine is problematic?


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

Should I ask people who aren't generally wildly left wing feminists then? Because that's who I'm talking to


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> My scouse mate says it isn't, and your scouse mate would be at risk of having their face rearranged if they tried it on in the company of most of the scouse women I ever met.
> 
> Same with the many Irish women I know.


lol


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Should I ask people who aren't generally wildly left wing feminists then? Because that's who I'm talking to



Be a good lad now and fuck off.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Fuck off.


Why? I'm not gonna. I've done so every so often in the 18 years I've posted here but never because some potty mouthed hardman told me to


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Look, two women have said they have a problem with 'lads' for a mixed gender group. Don't you see that you pushing your opinion that 'lads' is fine is problematic?


Nah, it's fine fella


----------



## two sheds (Jun 6, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> 'lads' just makes me think of loud, unpleasant males in short-sleeved shirts.



that's the edge of what I was aiming for because the discussion/argument was between three or four? males and it seemed somewhat pointless so I was trying to calm things down. However apologies, I didn't intend offence and I'll avoid the term in future.


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Nah, it's fine fella


What are you trying to achieve?


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

Santino said:


> What are you trying to achieve?


Passing the time, same as anyone else here I guess. You?


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Passing the time, same as anyone else here I guess. You?


Same, but without being a sexist prick.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Passing the time, same as anyone else here I guess. You?


Seriously, read the room. And have a think about how you're behaving here.


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

Santino said:


> Same, but without being a sexist prick.


I'm not a sexist prick 

See, I reported what is a fairly common usage in my experience - yes, in my bubble, but what is also a geographically diverse, very much left (not liberal - left) leaning bubble. That some people don't agree doesn't really change the fact

The rest is throwaway fluff. It's Sunday night mate, I'm not taking this remotely seriously and nor should anyone else


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Seriously, read the room. And have a think about how you're behaving here.


When women object to something, it's vital to scrutinise and probe their objection to make sure there're no possible holes in their logic. It's the best way to ensure they're not getting away with anything.


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> I'm not a sexist prick
> 
> See, I reported what is a fairly common usage in my experience - yes, in my bubble, but what is also a geographically diverse, very much left (not liberal - left) leaning bubble. That some people don't agree doesn't really change the fact
> 
> The rest is throwaway fluff. It's Sunday night mate, I'm not taking this remotely seriously and nor should anyone else


Can't take a joke, can they?


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

I'm secure in my views tbh Santino and I'm OK with how people irl see me. Project away if it makes you feel happier xx


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 6, 2021)

#bantz


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> Nah, it's fine fella


You're being a dick. Well done you.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

S☼I said:


> #bantz


It's always top bantz, or a joke, or women have no sense of humour...


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It's always top bantz, or a joke, or women have no sense of humour...


It's only Sunday. You can't be sexist on a Sunday.


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2021)

I might risk a few racist jokes before midnight.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

Santino said:


> It's only Sunday. You can't be sexist on a Sunday.


Shame I never got that memo...


----------



## JTG (Jun 6, 2021)

OK, this is getting silly now

I'm well enough known by enough people here not to be worried about the daft accusations being thrown around 

Have a great week all  x


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> OK, this is getting silly now
> 
> I'm well enough known by enough people here not to be worried about the daft accusations being thrown around
> 
> Have a great week all  x


Whatevs.


----------



## Edie (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> OK, this is getting silly now
> 
> I'm well enough known by enough people here not to be worried about the daft accusations being thrown around
> 
> Have a great week all  x


You’re not well enough known. This has changed my opinion of you. I hadn’t realised you were such a prick. See ya later, close the door.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> OK, this is getting silly now
> 
> I'm well enough known by enough people here not to be worried about the daft accusations being thrown around
> 
> Have a great week all  x



If it walks like a ducks, quacks like a duck,  posts like a prick...


----------



## Santino (Jun 6, 2021)

JTG said:


> OK, this is getting silly now
> 
> I'm well enough known by enough people here not to be worried about the daft accusations being thrown around
> 
> Have a great week all  x


I CAN'T be sexist. I'm NICE!


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 6, 2021)

When I saw the number of new posts I was wondering "huh, has the Guardian printed a lot of really controversial stuff lately?", was not really expecting this.


Sue said:


> Interesting that these terms that are apparently used in a gender-neutral sense always seem to be the male version of that term.
> 
> Anyone know of any examples the other way round..?


Girl in Old English?


> Chaucer used 'gyrl' in the General Prologue to his famous 'The Canterbury Tales' in 1387.
> Back then, 'gyrl' meant a young person - a boy or a girl; the sex of the person wasn't important... In fact, if the writer needed to differentiate between the sex of the young person back in the 1300s, a qualifier would need to be added - a boy was called a 'knave girl', while a girl was called a 'gay girl'.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2021)

Crikey.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 6, 2021)

Terry Pratchett would have something to say about this, I bet.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2021)

_shrugs_ is top ten in the 'annoying shit dickheads say on the Internet' charts btw


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Maybe it's just not that interesting, relevant, or even true?



It's true, though. Lads in Ireland isn't seen as derogatory or dismissive towards women. It's certainly not meant to be and pretty much all my women mates use it. 

Now, that could be our generation. Maybe the younger are changing this and it will become a thing of the past...

But Irish culture and language won't be dictated to by British sensibilities. Change, if needed, will come from within.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> It's true, though. Lads in Ireland isn't seen as derogatory or dismissive towards women. It's certainly not meant to be and pretty much all my women mates use it.
> 
> Now, that could be our generation. Maybe the younger are changing this and it will become a thing of the past...
> 
> But Irish culture and language won't be dictated to by British sensibilities. Change, if needed, will come from within.



Yeah, but my Irish mates say different. Just maybe, not everyone in Ireland thinks, or speaks, the same?

I'm 46, btw, and most of my mates in Ireland are 50+.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Yeah, but my Irish mates say different. Just maybe, not everyone in Ireland thinks, or speaks, the same?
> 
> I'm 46, btw, and most of my mates in Ireland are 50+.



Of course. It's about cultural context and what works well for some won't be for everyone. As said above, it might well change - Ireland has become very capable of change in recent decades.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 6, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Of course. It's about cultural context and what works well for some won't be for everyone. As said above, it might well change - Ireland has become very capable of change in recent decades.



Indeed. Tangential but - have you seen the film "The 8th" ? It's in cinemas now and I highly recommend it. Incredibly moving, even knowing the ending (and a fair bit of the story) in advance.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 7, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Indeed. Tangential but - have you seen the film "The 8th" ? It's in cinemas now and I highly recommend it. Incredibly moving, even knowing the ending (and a fair bit of the story) in advance.



Not sure it's even out here, yet but will make a note of it, cheers


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 7, 2021)

.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 7, 2021)

Edie said:


> You’re not well enough known. This has changed my opinion of you. I hadn’t realised you were such a prick. See ya later, close the door.


This. It's _formed _my opinion of him.


----------



## Edie (Jun 7, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> This. It's _formed _my opinion of him.


Imagine being a woman and a man going to you ‘well I’m just going to call you by the collective name for men’ and you going ‘but I’d rather you didn’t cos I’m a woman  ’ and him going ‘well tough shit lads’    I’m embarrassed for him 🙈


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2021)

JTG said:


> OK, this is getting silly now
> 
> I'm well enough known by enough people here not to be worried about the daft accusations being thrown around
> 
> Have a great week all  x


you've certainly presented your credentials now


----------



## Numbers (Jun 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> It's true, though. Lads in Ireland isn't seen as derogatory or dismissive towards women. It's certainly not meant to be and pretty much all my women mates use it.


Same here, any/everyone I know, from young to old use it.


----------



## campanula (Jun 7, 2021)

'You lot' in general, 'sweetheart or lovelies' for friends, fam or people in shops who look fed up. Suspect I would sooner stab myself in the eye than use 'guys', 'lads or such...but I am guilty of mate ing a bit. 
Have had furious daughter on the phone, this morning, raging about the  ;genderbread' drivel being poured into the ears of 9 year olds at school so yeah, feeling a bit enraged that in the whole curriculum teaching material, there wasn't a mention of patriarchy, not once....but loads of regressive stereotyping with a blatant capitalist narketing flavour (yep, it's the Barbie/G I Joe menu FFS).. Had to wonder what gender 'goth' might be...since afaics, it's still basically tribal preferences and constructed cosplay being given an essentialist twist. Slipping backwards to 1950. Course, what do I know. Too old, too dense, too fucking angry. Time to play with flowers and give humans a swerve.


----------



## JTG (Jun 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> It's true, though. Lads in Ireland isn't seen as derogatory or dismissive towards women. It's certainly not meant to be and pretty much all my women mates use it.
> 
> Now, that could be our generation. Maybe the younger are changing this and it will become a thing of the past...
> 
> But Irish culture and language won't be dictated to by British sensibilities. Change, if needed, will come from within.





Numbers said:


> Same here, any/everyone I know, from young to old use it.



My thanks for these contributions. Obviously context is everything and while there's a whole discussion to be had around it (I've been having an entertaining and informative one elsewhere all day) clearly this place won't be having it.


----------



## JTG (Jun 7, 2021)

Santino said:


> I CAN'T be sexist. I'm NICE!


If I may say (and I will anyway) I won't take lectures on equality from someone whose transphobic views have stood out to me whenever I've dipped into those threads.


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2021)

Maybe apologise or at least reflect on how your actions might be understood, rather than flail around trying to start a different argument.


----------



## JTG (Jun 7, 2021)

While I regret the arsey nature of my posting sometimes, I don't particularly regret noticing a usage of language that has since been confirmed by other posters.
I shall not be apologising, I am completely comfortable with my attitude towards women and I shall not be taking lectures from you on the subject for the reasons outlined.


----------



## Flavour (Jun 7, 2021)

Can this thread not go down the pan please, and remain focused on how our mutual enemy, the guardian, is


----------



## Santino (Jun 7, 2021)

JTG said:


> While I regret the arsey nature of my posting sometimes, I don't particularly regret noticing a usage of language that has since been confirmed by other posters.
> I shall not be apologising, I am completely comfortable with my attitude towards women and I shall not be taking lectures from you on the subject for the reasons outlined.


It wasn't noticing things though, was it? It was your instinctive reaction to tell women to shut up and deal with it.


----------



## JTG (Jun 7, 2021)

Flavour said:


> Can this thread not go down the pan please, and remain focused on how our mutual enemy, the guardian, is


Fair enough and I will apologise for that. Unintentional.
Enough 😊


----------



## Edie (Jun 8, 2021)

Fucking the fuck sake 









						‘A career change saved my life’: the people who built better lives after burnout
					

Chronic stress at work can lead to listlessness, fatigue – and a much higher risk of stroke and heart disease. But there are ways to save yourself before it’s too late




					www.theguardian.com
				




Pretty much all of them should jump into the sea. Signed off ‘with stress’ so I became a breath-coach. Or yoga teacher. Or business advisor. Or wellness coach. Into the sea you go you fucking chancers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2021)

Edie said:


> Fucking the fuck sake
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeh let them become long-distance swimmers. south georgia to west falkland, say


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 8, 2021)

Error 503 Service Unavailable​Service Unavailable

They can't even run a website.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 8, 2021)

Reddit’s down as well


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2021)

lots of sites are - bandcamp is too


----------



## Santino (Jun 8, 2021)

Is Urban ok though?


----------



## rekil (Jun 8, 2021)

Workers Girder still up. ✊


----------



## magneze (Jun 8, 2021)

Santino said:


> Is Urban ok though?


No, it's down too


----------



## Raheem (Jun 8, 2021)

magneze said:


> No, it's down too


Shit. Where am I going to post this message now?


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2021)

according to an article I just read, 

_Reddit, Spotify, Twitch, Stack Overflow, GitHub, gov.uk, Hulu, HBO Max, Quora, PayPal, Vimeo, Shopify, and news outlets CNN, The Guardian, The New York Times, BBC and Financial Times are currently facing an outage. _

Something to do with a service provider called Fastly


----------



## two sheds (Jun 8, 2021)

Independent too, BBC's up though


----------



## mauvais (Jun 8, 2021)

bbc.co.uk is up, bbc.com not so much.


----------



## Santino (Jun 8, 2021)

mauvais said:


> bbc.co.uk is up, bbc.com not so much.


Brexit dividend


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 8, 2021)

I am sorry to report that the teams meeting I'm currently attending still seems to be working.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 8, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> I am sorry to report that the teams meeting I'm currently attending still seems to be working.



Just making some hissing noises then turn it off.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 8, 2021)

My connection to the meeting has now gone down! This will continue etc.


----------



## Santino (Jun 8, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Just making some hissing noises then turn it off.


That's your answer for everything.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 8, 2021)

Santino said:


> That's your answer for everything.


Well, it works everywhere except at the serpentophilia support group


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2021)

killer b said:


> _shrugs_ is top ten in the 'annoying shit dickheads say on the Internet' charts btw



I always wondered where you got your material from.


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2021)

_shrugs_


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 8, 2021)

Meta meta something.









						Massive internet outage hits websites including Amazon, gov.uk and Guardian
					

Technical problem traced to network run by Fastly brings some sites down entirely




					www.theguardian.com
				




Fourth paragraph.



> As well as bringing down some websites entirely, the failure also broke specific sections of other services, such as the servers for Twitter that host the social network’s emojis.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2021)

planetgeli said:


> Meta meta something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i hope our smilies server never goes offline


----------



## Sue (Jun 8, 2021)

> As well as bringing down some websites entirely, the failure also broke specific sections of other services, such as the servers for Twitter that host the social network’s emojis.



Broken Britain.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 8, 2021)

planetgeli said:


> Meta meta something.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 🤷‍♂️😂


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> i hope our smilies server never goes offline


The consequences don't bear thinking about.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 8, 2021)

It would be no 😆 matter.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2021)

it's the snakes you don't find till too late that ruin the holiday. if you find them before you go, as it were, then it's not a disaster


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> i hope our smilies server never goes offline


Time to break open the emergency longdog rations


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 272485
> 
> it's the snakes you don't find till too late that ruin the holiday. if you find them before you go, as it were, then it's not a disaster


If you find them on the plane, it's a disaster movie


----------



## stavros (Jun 9, 2021)

The Peequal: will the new women’s urinal spell the end of queues for the ladies’?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 9, 2021)

stavros said:


> The Peequal: will the new women’s urinal spell the end of queues for the ladies’?


Spoiler alert: NO


----------



## Sue (Jun 11, 2021)

😢  









						My sister and I are creatives marooned in the family home. Our parents want us to get real jobs | Leading questions
					

There is nothing wrong with accepting enthusiastically offered assistance, writes advice columnist Eleanor Gordon-Smith. But is that the case here?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## xenon (Jun 11, 2021)

They sound  obnoxiously precious and out of touch. But the advice is reasonable...


----------



## rekil (Jun 16, 2021)

I heard that he's done a bit of the soccer but yeah what a weirdo.



> The Portugal captain is a renowned health fanatic and made it clear what he thinks of the carbonated soft drink.











						Removed: article
					






					www.theguardian.com


----------



## NoXion (Jun 16, 2021)

Move a bottle out of camera shot = 4 billion dollars disapoofed.

Capitalism, the "rational" way of doing things.


----------



## stavros (Jun 16, 2021)

The share prices dived... and were subsequently given a yellow card after a VAR review.


----------



## killer b (Jun 16, 2021)

seen in context, it's not exactly bombing (I wonder what happened at the start of the year - a full 5% drop then...)


----------



## two sheds (Jun 16, 2021)

The importance of showing the full y-axis


----------



## kabbes (Jun 16, 2021)

killer b said:


> seen in context, it's not exactly bombing (I wonder what happened at the start of the year - a full 5% drop then...)
> 
> View attachment 273785


The S&P overall dropped by about 3% over the last few days of last year so it was probably mostly just that overall sentiment


----------



## belboid (Jun 16, 2021)

I cant quite decide if it’s the Guardian or Starmer who is more likely to be completely fucking stupid.



(it’s the guardian, btw)


----------



## two sheds (Jun 16, 2021)

Urban Dictionary: Stong
					

A poker for a Marijuana water pipe. Bong+stoker




					www.urbandictionary.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 17, 2021)

two sheds said:


> The importance of showing the full y-axis


It's clearly not showing the full y axis, nothing there below 48


----------



## two sheds (Jun 17, 2021)

Exactly  importance of showing the full y axis plus importance of showing historical data which that graph did.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 19, 2021)

FFS. 

Thank goodness someone was there to rescue him from a stray city that'd escaped from Staffordshire. 
If only they had proofreaders.


----------



## Skim (Jun 20, 2021)

Sue said:


> 😢
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha… excellent responses from both columnist and commentators here.


----------



## Skim (Jun 20, 2021)




----------



## hash tag (Jun 20, 2021)

No mention of today's front cover yet.


----------



## fieryjack (Jun 23, 2021)

New Guardian NFT-related article
...opens with this paragraph/link:


> The photographer Jeff McCurry’s favourite Harambe memes are the ones where the dead gorilla is in heaven, Photoshopped alongside Diana, Princess of Wales, Tupac and Muhammad Ali. “It’s like: _wow_,” says McCurry. “What greater spot can you be placed in? Harambe’s at the top of the hill, waiting to meet you there.”



The link goes to a sub-reddit called "okbuddyretard", which you'd think would be a warning flag of sorts, as if the undercurrent of stink around Harambe memes in general wasn't already a sign.

Anyway, the heavenly alumni in the linked picture appear to include Hitler and Jeffrey Epstein

_*e2c my usual Jeffrey/Brian error_


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 23, 2021)

It's fucking risible seeing the guardian now claim the referendum was brexit


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 23, 2021)

Skim said:


> View attachment 274479


I hope she is not a bleeder.


----------



## belboid (Jun 25, 2021)

‘Leave your knickers at home’: Guardian readers’ top holiday packing hacks
					

Whether you’re off to the Balearics or Bournemouth, here’s how to keep your luggage as light as possible – while still taking everything you’ll need




					www.theguardian.com
				




There are many worse pieces than this, but I’m having it anyway.  

one and a half sound pieces of advice (duct tape - excellent idea, rolling up clothes/ sound but already well known) but far more awful ones, going knickerless seems awfully popular.  

I think the dumbest is the ‘vacuum pack’ one, who recommends you decide what you are going to wear every day, then put each days wear into a labelled ziplock bag after being spritzed with an appropriate perfume.   If I had the time and money (and wardrobe) to do that I wouldn’t need to go on holiday.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 25, 2021)

If we're going somewhere with a beach then we buy beach towels at the destination and abandon them in the room as a gift to either the next user or the cleaning staff rather than take our own.


----------



## Colin Hunt (Jun 25, 2021)

belboid said:


> There are many worse pieces than this, but I’m having it anyway.
> 
> one and a half sound pieces of advice (duct tape - excellent idea, rolling up clothes/ sound but already well known) but far more awful ones, going knickerless seems awfully popular.
> 
> I think the dumbest is the ‘vacuum pack’ one, who recommends you decide what you are going to wear every day, then put each days wear into a labelled ziplock bag after being spritzed with an appropriate perfume.   If I had the time and money (and wardrobe) to do that I wouldn’t need to go on holiday.


It reads more as a guide to overthinking things and ruining all enjoyment of your holiday.

But at least once you're done vacuum-packing two outfits for each day and meticulously weighing and photographing everything before packing it, you can use the cyanide capsule you handily stashed away in an old film canister to put yourself out of your misery.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 25, 2021)

belboid said:


> ‘Leave your knickers at home’: Guardian readers’ top holiday packing hacks
> 
> 
> Whether you’re off to the Balearics or Bournemouth, here’s how to keep your luggage as light as possible – while still taking everything you’ll need
> ...



The packing cubes are useful. I only have a couple (including one for dirty clothing) but they do make life easier. And doing laundry on holiday saves tons of packing.


----------



## belboid (Jun 25, 2021)

scifisam said:


> The packing cubes are useful. I only have a couple (including one for dirty clothing) but they do make life easier. And doing laundry on holiday saves tons of packing.


I use them in my underwear drawer, for which they are quite handy.  But if I go on holiday I unpack.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 25, 2021)

belboid said:


> I use them in my underwear drawer, for which they are quite handy.  But if I go on holiday I unpack.



I unpack too, but they're useful for that, and especially for the dirty laundry. I hate having dirty clothes next to clean clothes in my luggage.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 25, 2021)

Do we get a separate thread for "Why Urban is going down the pan"?


----------



## Elpenor (Jun 25, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> If we're going somewhere with a beach then we buy beach towels at the destination and abandon them in the room as a gift to either the next user or the cleaning staff rather than take our own.


Or added to landfill more likely


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 25, 2021)

What is packing? I just shove a week’s worth of clothes in a case and get on the bus


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 25, 2021)

belboid said:


> ‘Leave your knickers at home’: Guardian readers’ top holiday packing hacks
> 
> 
> Whether you’re off to the Balearics or Bournemouth, here’s how to keep your luggage as light as possible – while still taking everything you’ll need
> ...


They're suggesting swapping knickers for bikini bottoms as you can go for a swim more easily and they dry quicker. 

One person suggests using old 35mm film canisters to store imodium and salt/pepper sachets along with a tiny can opener. That's far odder.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 25, 2021)

scifisam said:


> I unpack too, but they're useful for that, and especially for the dirty laundry. I hate having dirty clothes next to clean clothes in my luggage.


Yes, I always separate my clean and dirty laundry too.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> If we're going somewhere with a beach then we buy beach towels at the destination and abandon them in the room as a gift to either the next user or the cleaning staff rather than take our own.



The cleaning staff don't want your nasty used towels you knob.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 25, 2021)

Because they have nasty used hotel towels to deal with already?


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 25, 2021)

scifisam said:


> I unpack too, but they're useful for that, and especially for the dirty laundry. I hate having dirty clothes next to clean clothes in my luggage.



So do I. Hence I usually pack a plastic bag to fill with dirty laundry.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 25, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> The cleaning staff don't want your nasty used towels you knob.


Really? the last one said thank you


----------



## Elpenor (Jun 26, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Really? the last one said thank you


I imagine they’re asked not to be rude to the guests.

If you want to tip them, some leftover currency is probably the best option, it’s generally seen worldwide as more convertible than a damp towel.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 26, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> I imagine they’re asked not to be rude to the guests.
> 
> If you want to tip them, some leftover currency is probably the best option, it’s generally seen worldwide as more convertible than a damp towel.


Always do


----------



## two sheds (Jun 26, 2021)

Doesn't it just mean the staff have an extra towel to throw out if they want to, or put in with the cleaning? Possibly not even an extra one if MickiQ isn't using one of the towels instead. I'm puzzled why this would be a problem. The only risk I can see would be if everyone did it there'd be no room for guests to get into the bathrooms.


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 26, 2021)

Beach towels not bath towels, they're quite bulky and take up a lot of space in a suitcase so it is more efficient if  we buy them there. When we leave we just leave them in the room (along with a tip and in my pre Kindle days any paperbacks I had finished) at about 10 Euros apiece they are a trivial extra cost on top of the holiday.
I mostly don't know what the staff do with them afterwards whether it's throw them, sell them to the next tourist or take them home. (The sole feedback from the nice lady in Menorca was the latter) 
Don't care that much to be truthful, I am both surprised and entertained that my behaviour is so controversial though. I must be more of a latte sipping Guardiansta than I gave myself credit for.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> One person suggests using old 35mm film canisters to store imodium and salt/pepper sachets along with a tiny can opener. That's far odder.


They are actually really handy for storing small quantities of things in, given that they're air/water tight. There's a homeless shelter in the East End that takes them as donations so they can give out shampoo etc in them. Not really something everybody has lying around these days though (apart from me).


----------



## two sheds (Jun 26, 2021)

Were also favoured for carrying 'teenths in back in the day


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2021)

Hadley Freeman's friends think she has shit opinions so this is of course a general social problem, rather than due to her having shit opinions.









						People have told me I’m on the wrong side of history, but I still want to be their friend | Hadley Freeman
					

I don’t drop people I disagree with from my life – but for many liberals, differences of opinion have become unacceptable




					www.theguardian.com
				




Obviously it's a very important point that she is legally allowed to have these opinions. Perhaps she could sue her friends.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Were also favoured for carrying 'teenths in back in the day


Because I am middle aged now I use them to store paperclips. (They do make good portable ashtrays as well.)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 26, 2021)

In my primary school we kept them in the inkwells of our desks to hold glue 😎


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 26, 2021)

belboid said:


> ‘Leave your knickers at home’: Guardian readers’ top holiday packing hacks
> 
> 
> Whether you’re off to the Balearics or Bournemouth, here’s how to keep your luggage as light as possible – while still taking everything you’ll need
> ...



They forgot the main one:

__


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 26, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They are actually really handy for storing small quantities of things in, given that they're air/water tight. There's a homeless shelter in the East End that takes them as donations so they can give out shampoo etc in them. Not really something everybody has lying around these days though (apart from me).


It was the fact that they're not that common these days that irritated me - they are excellent storage containers, just not that easy to find necessarily.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 26, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It was the fact that they're not that common these days that irritated me - they are excellent storage containers, just not that easy to find necessarily.



at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, suggesting uses for 35mm film canisters was a bit of a standing joke in the letters page of the guardian some time ago (and for all i know may still be)


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2021)

I see they keep up their shitty typos


----------



## brogdale (Jul 3, 2021)

I'd get started on this pdq if you're hoping to settle down by 8....


----------



## TopCat (Jul 3, 2021)

brogdale said:


> I'd get started on this pdq if you're hoping to settle down by 8....
> 
> View attachment 276525


Not familiar half time grub.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 3, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Not familiar half time grub.


I too tend to opt for the less complicated option for half time nourishment:


----------



## Argonia (Jul 3, 2021)

Hate to be egotistical but the bloody Grauniad never picked me up for a job when I did books and films reviews for the Cherwell student paper in Oxford. Maybe they didn't like my excoriating review of a Johnathan Freedland book.


----------



## pbsmooth (Jul 3, 2021)

The holiday one.. Why did it list everyone's jobs?


----------



## xenon (Jul 3, 2021)

Seriously why do the Guardian articles have so many typos? As someone who makes plenty himself and occasionally adopts an idiosyncratic approach to spelling, even I can get it right, armed with a spellcheck. It's like they just CBA.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 3, 2021)

xenon said:


> Seriously why do the Guardian articles have so many typos? As someone who makes plenty himself and occasionally adopts an idiosyncratic approach to spelling, even I can get it right, armed with a spellcheck. It's like they just CBA.


Its treditional


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 3, 2021)

xenon said:


> Seriously why do the Guardian articles have so many typos? As someone who makes plenty himself and occasionally adopts an idiosyncratic approach to spelling, even I can get it right, armed with a spellcheck. It's like they just CBA.


Tbh the typos are the best thing about the guardian, it's the way value judgements are routinely made in things which affect to be news reports eg he rightly said, which really fucks me off


----------



## two sheds (Jul 3, 2021)

and the split infinitives


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 3, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Beach towels not bath towels, they're quite bulky and take up a lot of space in a suitcase so it is more efficient if  we buy them there. When we leave we just leave them in the room (along with a tip and in my pre Kindle days any paperbacks I had finished) at about 10 Euros apiece they are a trivial extra cost on top of the holiday.
> I mostly don't know what the staff do with them afterwards whether it's throw them, sell them to the next tourist or take them home. (The sole feedback from the nice lady in Menorca was the latter)
> Don't care that much to be truthful, I am both surprised and entertained that my behaviour is so controversial though. I must be more of a latte sipping Guardiansta than I gave myself credit for.


When the hotels were working properly here pre covid the Portuguese who worked in them were always offering me beach towels , inflatables , sun tan cream etc that people had left in case I wanted them for visitors .


----------



## Leighsw2 (Jul 3, 2021)

Did I mention that my posts in their comments 'below the line' of articles are now 'pre-moderated' (ie. censored). I had no idea until the other day, as I hardly ever post anything, but I can only assume it's because I posted something critical of Starmer months ago (a comment which seems to have disappeared). Aren't liberals marvelous!


----------



## TopCat (Jul 3, 2021)

Leighsw2 said:


> Did I mention that my posts in their comments 'below the line' of articles are now 'pre-moderated' (ie. censored). I had no idea until the other day, as I hardly ever post anything, but I can only assume it's because I posted something critical of Starmer months ago (a comment which seems to have disappeared). Aren't liberals marvelous!


I had that a few times for calling Polly Toynbee a cunt.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 3, 2021)

'It's a term of affection'


----------



## TopCat (Jul 4, 2021)

This headline caught my eye. Must appeal to a lot of readers. 









						I’m an unsuccessful writer, how can I escape this feeling of despair?
					

Direct your energy into your creativity and do what you want to do, says Philippa Perry




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 4, 2021)

By a remarkable coincidence, Jeremy Corbyn was proposing extra bank holidays in 2017.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Just clashed with someone from the Grauniad called Viv Taylor at LinkedIn and told her I won't read it until they report the Republic and the democracy. They have some pretty mediocre writers and don't bother to give voice to the very best. I told her the whole thing needs a major kick up the backside.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 5, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> View attachment 276761
> 
> By a remarkable coincidence, Jeremy Corbyn was proposing extra bank holidays in 2017.


I remember him doing that, and at the time thinking 'Oh christ we're offering all sorts of things now'


----------



## kabbes (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Just clashed with someone from the Grauniad called Viv Taylor at LinkedIn and told her I won't read it until they report the Republic and the democracy. They have some pretty mediocre writers and don't bother to give voice to the very best. I told her the whole thing needs a major kick up the backside.


Does Viv Taylor have editorial control of the Guardian?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Does Viv Taylor have editorial control of the Guardian?


No, I think she is a poor underling. She couldn't cope with me and told me not to read it if I don't want to.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 6, 2021)

A victory, I’m sure


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

kabbes said:


> A victory, I’m sure


It's the editor I want to give a bollocking to

Just about to fire off a tweet but bet she doesn't muster up a reply

@KathViner


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

Sent two furious tweets to Viner to edit the thing properly but alas predictably answer there cameth none.


----------



## Sue (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Sent two furious tweets to Viner to edit the thing properly but alas predictably answer there cameth none.


Argonia, what response would you expect and is contacting random journos etc worth your time and effort?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

Sue said:


> Argonia, what response would you expect and is contacting random journos etc worth your time and effort?


A proper one with some fucking manners and respect


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> A proper one with some fucking manners and respect


I get the impression you haven't had many dealings with journos


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> I get the impression you haven't had many dealings with journos


I was one for a while at TV Tokyo in London and nearly wrote for the New Statesman and Index on Censorship and the Economist. In the main in this country they are about as useful as a parasol in a  Wizard of Oz tornado


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I was one for a while at TV Tokyo in London and nearly wrote for the New Statesman and Index on Censorship and the Economist. In the main in this country they are about as useful as a parasol in a  Wizard of Oz tornado


I am surprised then by what seem to me unrealistic expectations of the profession


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 6, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'It's a term of affection'



Truly, I can't think of any compliment greater than to compare someone to my cunt, or any of the other cunts I've had the pleasure of becoming familiar with.

100% all of them have been beautiful, deep, warm, tasteful, and delicious.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 6, 2021)

TopCat said:


> This headline caught my eye. Must appeal to a lot of readers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And staff.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Truly, I can't think of any compliment greater than to compare someone to my cunt, or any of the other cunts I've had the pleasure of becoming familiar with.
> 
> 100% all of them have been beautiful, deep, warm, tasteful, and delicious.








						Cunt: A Declaration of Independence (Live Girls): Amazon.co.uk: Inga Muscio: 9781580050753: Books
					

Buy Cunt: A Declaration of Independence (Live Girls) 2New Ed by Inga Muscio (ISBN: 9781580050753) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.



					www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Cunt: A Declaration of Independence (Live Girls): Amazon.co.uk: Inga Muscio: 9781580050753: Books
> 
> 
> Buy Cunt: A Declaration of Independence (Live Girls) 2New Ed by Inga Muscio (ISBN: 9781580050753) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
> ...



Yes I read that years ago. Back when I mainly assumed that only women have cunts, and that all women have cunts. Little did I, and this author, know.

Ps. Do be careful now, Argonia  you are straying dangerously close to "mansplaining" territory here, and not for the first time.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Yes I read that years ago.
> 
> Do be careful, you are straying dangerously close to "mansplaining" territory here, and not for the first time.


It's a new one on me, I have just downloaded it


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 6, 2021)

It's not a new book though, Argonia , and was a best-seller in its day.

In other words, a lot of people have read it, and lots more have heard of it. A high proportion of each of those groups of people will be people who have, or have had, a cunt.

So the odds were high that you were informing me, a person who'd already referred to themselves as being in possession of a cunt, about a book I would already be aware of and likely have read.

Mansplaining.

Not a good habit to cultivate.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> It's not a new book though, Argonia , and was a best-seller in its day.
> 
> In other words, a lot of people have read it, and lots more have heard of it. A higher proportion of each of those groups of people will be people who have, or have had, a cunt.
> 
> ...


I'm going to read it tonight


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I'm going to read it tonight



Good for you.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Good for you.


Late to the party I accept but looking forward to making amends


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Late to the party I accept but looking forward to making amends



My problem isn't about you being late or early to any party ffs! I do not care if you have read, are going to read, or plan to paper your walls with, this book.

I'm just not interested.

Which is a shame, for me, because recently I have enjoyed and been interested in many of your posts, on other topics.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> My problem isn't about you being late or early to any party ffs! I do not care if you have read, are going to read, or plan to paper your walls with, this book.
> 
> I'm just not interested.
> 
> Which is a shame, for me, because recently I have enjoyed and been interested in many of your posts, on other topics.


Can't paper the walls with it because it's on a Kindle. I don't do paper books anymore, just digital.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Cunt: A Declaration of Independence (Live Girls): Amazon.co.uk: Inga Muscio: 9781580050753: Books
> 
> 
> Buy Cunt: A Declaration of Independence (Live Girls) 2New Ed by Inga Muscio (ISBN: 9781580050753) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
> ...


I'd have been more impressed if you a) hadn't linked to Amazon, and b) had linked to the cunt colouring book The Cunt Coloring Book

If you had to link to a book that is


----------



## Argonia (Jul 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> I'd have been more impressed if you a) hadn't linked to Amazon, and b) had linked to the cunt colouring book The Cunt Coloring Book
> 
> If you had to link to a book that is


Well if I'm honest I never buy books on Amazon so I don't contribute to Bezos's untaxed imperium, I just download thousands of samples and read them. I'll check out the colouring book.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> I'd have been more impressed if you a) hadn't linked to Amazon, and b) had linked to the cunt colouring book The Cunt Coloring Book
> 
> If you had to link to a book that is



I wouldn't have been, but hey, each to their own etc.

Eta - actually yes, perhaps I'd have been 1% less irritated if it hadn't been Amazon, but yeah still only a smidgeon of difference overall.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

Complete and utter silence from Katharine Viner at Twitter. Even tweeted Rafael Behr and Jonathan Freedland as well but absolutely nothing.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

What did you expect Argonia? You're probably not the only person that tweets them. Are you seriously expecting a response every time you tweet someone? Because that's not how things work on social media.

You seem to be tweeting or otherwise contacting a lot of random people at the moment. Why is that?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> What did you expect Argonia? You're probably not the only person that tweets them. Are you seriously expecting a response every time you tweet someone? Because that's not how things work on social media.
> 
> You seem to be tweeting or otherwise contacting a lot of random people at the moment. Why is that?


I know they are flooded with messages but I expect them to pay attention and provide me with a proper and decent response. And I expect the Grauniad to fish the finest writers in the land out of the JobCentre Plus and menial jobs and give voice to the voiceless as Vaclav Havel put it.

@devereuxmatthew


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I know they are flooded with messages but I expect them to pay attention and provide me with a proper and decent response. And I expect the Grauniad to fish the finest writers in the land out of the JobCentre Plus and menial jobs and give voice to the voiceless as Vaclav Havel put it.
> 
> @devereuxmatthew


So even though you accept they're dealing with a lot of messages, you expect them to notice yours in particular and be so impressed with your writing that they will give you a job?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> So even though you accept they're dealing with a lot of messages, you expect them to notice yours in particular and be so impressed with your writing that they will give you a job?


I don't want a job at the Grauniad. I have a day job and I publish freely in cyberspace without editors to get in the way. I want the best writers to get jobs there instead of being utterly neglected.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I don't want a job at the Grauniad. I have a day job and I publish freely in cyberspace without editors to get in the way. I want the best writers to get jobs there instead of being utterly neglected.


But you know that what you're doing is utterly pointless because that's not how things works. And who says the best writers want to work there anyway? What if they don't?

You're settling yourself up to be disappointed.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> But you know that what you're doing is utterly pointless because that's not how things works. And who says the best writers want to work there anyway? What if they don't?
> 
> You're settling yourself up to be disappointed.


Don't agree with you equationgirl so we'll have to agree to disagree


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> But you know that what you're doing is utterly pointless because that's not how things works. And who says the best writers want to work there anyway? What if they don't?
> 
> You're settling yourself up to be disappointed.


Ricky Gervais got back to me at Twitter and Natalie Bennet followed me so I now have a friend in the dreadful House of Lords. Small victories.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Don't agree with you equationgirl so we'll have to agree to disagree


And that's fine. But to be honest your behaviour is slightly concerning.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> And that's fine. But to be honest your behaviour is slightly concerning.


Fair enough to be concerned if you wish but I'm perfectly fine thanks. This war in cyberspace is improving by the day as I make inroads with my Sherman tanks at Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIN.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 7, 2021)

(Steps away for a bit)


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Fair enough to be concerned if you wish but I'm perfectly fine thanks. This war in cyberspace is improving by the day as I make inroads with my Sherman tanks at Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIN.



And urban! Huge swathes of it, lately. 

What's your ultimate goal?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> And urban! Huge swathes of it, lately.
> 
> What's your ultimate goal?


Teaming up with Bonathan Jishop for world domination


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> And urban! Huge swathes of it, lately.
> 
> What's your ultimate goal?


DEMOCRACY  - AT LONG LAST



			democracy - Google Search


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I know they are flooded with messages but I expect them to pay attention and provide me with a proper and decent response. And I expect the Grauniad to fish the finest writers in the land out of the JobCentre Plus and menial jobs and give voice to the voiceless as Vaclav Havel put it.
> 
> @devereuxmatthew



You have unrealistic expectations


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> You have unrealistic expectations


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 7, 2021)

Like Argonia and haven't put them on ignore.

But something is up.

Which is understandable as many of us are trying to cope with the world in different ways.

Not sure if flooding threads is helping, though.

Sorry, had to get it off chest.

Live long and prosper.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Like Argonia and haven't put them on ignore.
> 
> But something is up.
> 
> ...


That shows a good spirit


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Like Argonia and haven't put them on ignore.
> 
> But something is up.
> 
> ...


Live long and prosper, friend.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

There's people who are worried about you Argonia


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> There's people who are worried about you Argonia


Fair enough my friend, I appreciate the concern but I've never been happier! We might finally be on the way to a Republic and a democracy after all these years of struggle!


----------



## TopCat (Jul 7, 2021)

Are you sleeping well?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Are you sleeping well?


Was a bit poor a few weeks ago but caught up last night with a decent six hours and was up and raring for action. Thanks for asking. Appetite is fine though, no problems there. Used to be borderline annorexic (I stress the borderline - I don;'t want to overegg the pudding)  in my worst days in a sublet council block in Hackney unemployed and where a guy was shot through the wall in the block opposite, at the time of the illegal and vile invasion of Iraq. My friend from college and editor at the Cherwell student paper Hadley Freeman was annorexic in her sixth form days and has written a book about her experiences bought by Fourth Estate. I haven't followed Hadley too closely but think she got caught up in the terrible trans/feminist debate which has been way over my head and which I have basically avoided engaging with. But she has also written about 1980s films in a book and about her Jewish ancestors which were interesting books.

@HadleyFreeman


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Only, and please don't take this the wrong way, you seem to be more on the manic side recently Argonia .


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Only, and please don't take this the wrong way, you seem to be more on the manic side recently Argonia .


It's a peaceful transition to democracy equationgirl, there is a lot of work to do. All I am is a humble writer and historian so each day I marshall my quills and get into action spurting out my utter nonsense all over cyberspace. Was born to write - it's my Max Weberian vocation - and am starting to have just a tiny bit of fun after a pretty dreadful life of poverty and obscurity like George Orwell in his down and out days in Paris.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Only, and please don't take this the wrong way, you seem to be more on the manic side recently Argonia .


Talking of manic - and the manichean other side of depression - there was a guy from school called Mackenzie Taylor who was a comedian and most of his comedy was about his mental health problems and he sadly committed suicide. 






						Mackenzie Taylor - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Talking of manic - and the manichean other side of depression - there was a guy from school called Mackenzie Taylor who was a comedian and most of his comedy was about his mental health problems and he sadly committed suicide.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A family member with bipolar disorder tried to commit suicide last year, that's why I'm concerned about you.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> A family member with bipolar disorder tried to commit suicide last year, that's why I'm concerned about you.


I appreciate your concern a lot, it means a great deal to me. But I'm fine. Just pottering along in my local community living my simple life reading and writing. As for your friend - glad they didn't do it in the end. I think there are about 5000 suicides a year and reckon we should build a monument to them so their names get remembered and the stories of their struggles and difficult lives get brought out into the open. Nobody much remembers poor old Mackenzie Taylor now - which is a shame. I never got a chance to hear his comedy and bet it was quite painful as he chronichled his surging ups and downs like a stock market out of control.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I appreciate your concern a lot, it means a great deal to me. But I'm fine. Just pottering along in my local community living my simple life reading and writing. As for your friend - glad they didn't do it in the end. I think there are about 5000 suicides a year and reckon we should build a monument to them so their names get remembered and the stories of their struggles and difficult lives get brought out into the open.


Well just remember there are people looking out for you here.

It was a family member, not a friend.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Well just remember there are people looking out for you here.
> 
> It was a family member, not a friend.


OK that must have been horrible for you, hope the situation is better now. My brother was recently attacked by boys in Hampshire - had a drink thrown at him and was attacked with concrete and stones - so that fucked up my sleep worrying about him but the police caught them using CCTV footage from the British Transport police and have hoepfully resolved the situation. Then I had a cancer scare that I will spare you the details of but my GP got me sorted out. So my sleep has been haywire but now stabilising a bit.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I appreciate your concern a lot, it means a great deal to me. But I'm fine. Just pottering along in my local community living my simple life reading and writing. As for your friend - glad they didn't do it in the end. I think there are about 5000 suicides a year and reckon we should build a monument to them so their names get remembered and the stories of their struggles and difficult lives get brought out into the open.



With the best of love and respect, your activity here doesn't come across as fine. 

Is there someone you can talk to? Besides us?

It's not easy watching this play out. Its worrying. 

Meant without trying to interfere or patronise.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> With the best of love and respect, your activity here doesn't come across as fine.
> 
> Is there someone you can talk to? Besides us?
> 
> ...


Don't worry my friend! I am on a brief break from my uni job and writing as fast as I possibly can. Will have to ease off when I go back to work.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> With the best of love and respect, your activity here doesn't come across as fine.
> 
> Is there someone you can talk to? Besides us?
> 
> ...


Where are you in Japan anyway? I don't think I ever found out


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Where are you in Japan anyway? I don't think I ever found out



Am currently in a small space that feels like it's decreasing every day.


Let's hope all our fortunes change for the better.

Stay safe and sound.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Am currently in a small space that feels like it's decreasing every day.
> 
> 
> Let's hope all our fortunes change for the better.
> ...


Thanks, どもありがとござます


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia any chance you could build a break of aan hour or two each day, away from screens? Take a walk or something?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Argonia any chance you could build a break of aan hour or two each day, away from screens? Take a walk or something?


The doctors told me to go for walks. I try and get out and get a coffee. Then I have a break at 4 for my daily Zoom call with my mother.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Argonia any chance you could build a break of aan hour or two each day, away from screens? Take a walk or something?


There is a big screen in the centre of Woking with Wimbledon on with deckchairs so I might try and watch a game for a break. I tried to watch the Emma Raducanu game but couldn't find it on BBC Two as it was just a couple of blokes.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> There is a big screen in the centre of Woking with Wimbledon on with deckchairs so I might try and watch a game for a break. I tried to watch the Emma Raducanu game but couldn't find it on BBC Two as it was just a couple of blokes.


She's withdrawn I think, so the schedule might have changed.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Argonia any chance you could build a break of aan hour or two each day, away from screens? Take a walk or something?


I could try reading a copy of the Grauniad I suppose but I think it might infuriate me


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I could try reading a copy of the Grauniad I suppose but I think it might infuriate me


Lol


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> She's withdrawn I think, so the schedule might have changed.


I wanted to watch the game where she had her tragic hyperventilating attack but couldn't find it. I might log off entirely for the England game against Denmark tonight


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Argonia any chance you could build a break of aan hour or two each day, away from screens? Take a walk or something?


I took your advice and went downstairs and spoke to my neighbour with the three cats for an hour. Didn't realise before she was married to an Arsenal footballer.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I took your advice and went downstairs and spoke to my neighbour with the three cats for an hour. Didn't realise before she was married to an Arsenal footballer.


That wasn't quite what I expected but well done on taking a decent break.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I took your advice and went downstairs and spoke to my neighbour with the three cats for an hour. Didn't realise before she was married to an Arsenal footballer.


Obviously anyone with three cats will know something about football


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I could try reading a copy of the Grauniad I suppose but I think it might infuriate me


Also it won't take you long. Maybe read one of your new books


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Also it won't take you long. Maybe read one of your new books


I've already forgotten who you recommeded. Fallago and Simione or something? Can't remember where the link was


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I've already forgotten who you recommeded. Fallago and Simione or something? Can't remember where the link was


It was further up the thread I think


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Obviously anyone with three cats will know something about football


She said she used to go to Highbury all the time and said she went to away matches and has been to pretty much every ground in the country. Has watched every game in the Euros on telly and fancies Roberto Mancini. Her husband in his later days played for Leyton Orient and Woking and it took her five years before she realsied he couldn't read and write


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It was further up the thread I think


Different thread I think, I've lost track now


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I've already forgotten who you recommeded. Fallago and Simione or something? Can't remember where the link was


Huxley - brave new world
Solzhenitsyn - day in the life of Ivan denisovitch
Shalamov - Kolyma tales
Orwell - 1984
Fallada - alone in Berlin
Pasternak - Dr zhivago

Also have a look for good soldier svejk (sp?) which has the benefit of being funny


----------



## Argonia (Jul 7, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Huxley - brave new world
> Solzhenitsyn - day in the life of Ivan denisovitch
> Shalamov - Kolyma tales
> Orwell - 1984
> ...


Thanks. Came across the good soldier in Guildford library and had a right laugh


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 7, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Thanks. Came across the good soldier in Guildford library and had a right laugh


Also a lot of Sven hassel about the stupidities of Nazism


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

Just ventured on to the Grauniad website for the first time in nine years and was pleased to see 13 homelessness charities are having a pop at Robert Jenrick









						Police bill risks criminalising homeless people, warn UK charities
					

Exclusive: letter to Robert Jenrick says urgent changes needed to bill to avoid threat of jail for rough sleeping




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Just ventured on to the Grauniad website for the first time in nine years and was pleased to see 13 homelessness charities are having a pop at Robert Jenrick
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Promising for sure.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Promising for sure.


Reminds me of the 1981 letter by 364 economists to Thacther to tell her her monetarist revolution was going to be a failure and cause 3 million unemployed



			BBC NEWS | Programmes | Newsnight Home | Were 364 economists all wrong?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

Good news. They're being flooded with letters.

More than 100 scientists and medics sign a letter to The Lancet accusing ministers of acting irresponsibly by lifting all Covid rules









						‘Premature’ Freedom Day is a dangerous and unethical experiment, doctors warn
					

More than 100 scientists and medics sign a letter to The Lancet accusing ministers of acting irresponsibly by lifting all Covid rules




					www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Good news. They're being flooded with letters.
> 
> More than 100 scientists and medics sign a letter to The Lancet accusing ministers of acting irresponsibly by lifting all Covid rules
> 
> ...


Which assumes the government read and give a shit about the Lancet.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Which assumes the government read and give a shit about the Lancet.


The government are illierate like 1 in 5 people in this country. They have never ever heard of the Lancet.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 12, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Huxley - brave new world
> Solzhenitsyn - day in the life of Ivan denisovitch
> Shalamov - Kolyma tales
> Orwell - 1984
> ...


Poor old Shalamov in Kolyma. Mike Palin met a former guy from the gold mines and went there for his travels. Bet Katharine Viner the editor of the Grauniad would put his memoir in a waste paper backet in the office in Kings Place and set fire to it while Marina Hyde, William Keegan, Owen Jones, Johnathan Freedland and Rafael Behr danced like witches in a coven singing "Rule Britannia" and "God Save the Queen's Cunt"


----------



## rekil (Jul 12, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Also a lot of Sven hassel about the stupidities of Nazism


A piece of shit who was convicted of being an informer for the occupation in Denmark and promoted the clean wehrmacht myth.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2021)

rekil said:


> A piece of shit who was convicted of being an informer for the occupation in Denmark and promoted the clean wehrmacht myth.


i've never thought the wehrmacht came out of his books particularly well.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 13, 2021)

Nice guidance to induce minority ethnic pregnancies earlier condemned as racist​I suppose that’s better than nasty guidance.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 13, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Nice guidance to induce minority ethnic pregnancies earlier condemned as racist​I suppose that’s better than nasty guidance.


It should be NICE National Institute for Clinical Excellence guidance...

Acronyms written improperly irritates me greatly.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 13, 2021)

it's a stylistic choice








						Guardian and Observer style guide: A
					

From A* to José María Aznar




					www.theguardian.com
				






> *abbreviations and acronyms*
> […]
> Use all capitals if an abbreviation is pronounced as the individual letters (an initialism): BBC, CEO, US, VAT, etc; if it is an acronym (pronounced as a word) spell out with initial capital, eg Nasa, Nato, Unicef, unless it can be considered to have entered the language as an everyday word, such as awol, laser and, more recently, asbo, pin number and sim card. Note that pdf and plc are lowercase.



top trolling for them to include the obviously incorrect "pin number" redundancy as an example


----------



## NoXion (Jul 13, 2021)

Cerv said:


> it's a stylistic choice
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AKA Stylistic Suck.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 13, 2021)

Cerv said:


> it's a stylistic choice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's awful.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 13, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It's awful.


I think it looks better than all caps


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It's awful.


Naah it’s one of the few things they get right.   Unicef looks much better than UNICEF, imo.  And they are pronounced as a word so it makes sense to spell them that way.  There are probably a couple of others that may make for momentary confusion, but they’re the exceptions.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 13, 2021)

No one writes LASER do they?


----------



## two sheds (Jul 13, 2021)

you did, just there I saw it


----------



## Cerv (Jul 13, 2021)

as a compromise, could we use small caps?
e.g. NICE guidance to induce minority ethnic pregnancies earlier condemned as racist


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2021)

Cerv said:


> as a compromise, could we use small caps?
> e.g. NICE guidance to induce minority ethnic pregnancies earlier condemned as racist


God no, that’s horrid!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 13, 2021)

It wouldn't be beyond the wit of humankind to add an exception for cases where there's confusion with another noun. Or to simply rewrite the headline so it's not the first word.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 13, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> No one writes LASER do they?



Lasers are generic. UNICEF is a specific organisation. It makes sense to me for the former to be uncapitalised while capitalising the latter.


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It wouldn't be beyond the wit of humankind to add an exception for cases where there's confusion with another noun. Or to simply rewrite the headline so it's not the first word.


(Tries to defy urge to point out the alternative meaning of ‘nice’ isn’t a noun.  Fails)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 13, 2021)

word then

I don't get paid for this, I can be as crap as I like


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Lasers are generic. UNICEF is a specific organisation. It makes sense to me for the former to be uncapitalised while capitalising the latter.


Unicef itself writes it out as Unicef.  (Which is another guardian style guide rule, follow the organisations usage)


----------



## two sheds (Jul 13, 2021)

could have been a noun, could have been guidance announced in Nice.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 13, 2021)

belboid said:


> Unicef itself writes it out as Unicef.  (Which is another guardian style guide rule, follow the organisations usage)



So what? The creator of the .GIF image format pronounces it _jif_. 

They're both wrong.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 13, 2021)

Unicef is fine because the number of people who know what it is  (UN children’s thingy) vastly outnumbers the number of people who know what each letter stands for. It’s also not an actual word.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2021)

Guardian goes up the pan slightly, I received a reply:

Dear Platinumsage, thank you for your email.

"Nice" is the correct way of referring to the body, as per our style guide, which advises that only the initial letter is capitalised for acronyms (abbreviations that themselves are spoken as words - eg Nasa, Unicef, Rada).

However, I think our editors should use common sense in this specific case, and Nice should not be used at the beginning of a headline or subheading, as these are the only places where the acronym could be confused with the word "nice", devoid of further context provided by the body text.

I passed this query on to the relevant production editor, who arranged for it to be changed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Guardian goes up the pan slightly, I received a reply:
> 
> Dear Platinumsage, thank you for your email.
> 
> ...


as anyone whose toilet has ever overflowed will tell you, something moving up the pan is to be deplored.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Guardian goes up the pan slightly, I received a reply:
> 
> Dear Platinumsage, thank you for your email.
> 
> ...





belboid said:


> Unicef itself writes it out as Unicef.  (Which is another guardian style guide rule, follow the organisations usage)


If they are following the style guide of adopting the usage of the body in question, they should be writing it as NICE.  And, I believe, NASA.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 14, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Guardian goes up the pan slightly, I received a reply:
> 
> Dear Platinumsage, thank you for your email.
> 
> ...


VINDICATION


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> VINDICATION


all caps => madness


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> all caps => madness


I AM RIGHTEOUS IN MY VINDICATION WHICH REQUIRES ALL CAPS, MR MODEL.


----------



## killer b (Jul 14, 2021)

kabbes said:


> If they are following the style guide of adopting the usage of the body in question, they should be writing it as NICE.  And, I believe, NASA.


No-one other than the Guardian writes Nasa do they? It looks really weird on the page


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2021)

killer b said:


> No-one other than the Guardian writes Nasa do they? It looks really weird on the page


Agreed. As does Nice, for that matter, in reference to the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 14, 2021)

NICE also use all caps for their acronym, so the Guardian wasn't correctly following it's own guidance to start with (do what the organisation under discussion does).


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> NICE also use all caps for their acronym, so the Guardian wasn't correctly following it's own guidance to start with (do what the organisation under discussion does).


You “liked” me saying that literally five posts earlier…


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2021)

kabbes said:


> If they are following the style guide of adopting the usage of the body in question, they should be writing it as NICE.  And, I believe, NASA.


So they do.  The ‘acronym’rule must take precedence for them.  

(the independent and times of India seem to be the only ones who follow the guardian re Nasa, btw.  My phone tries to insist on capitalising it).


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 14, 2021)

kabbes said:


> You “liked” me saying that literally five posts earlier…


I have a migraine starting.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 14, 2021)

kabbes said:


> If they are following the style guide of adopting the usage of the body in question, they should be writing it as NICE.  And, I believe, NASA.


Nasa spell colour without a 'u' so let's not start taking their input.


----------



## Santino (Jul 14, 2021)

Cerv said:


> Nasa spell colour without a 'u' so let's not start taking their input.


Yeah, it's not as if the people at NASA are brain surgeons or anything.


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 15, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It should be NICE National Institute for Clinical Excellence guidance...
> 
> Acronyms written improperly irritates me greatly.


Isn’t it National Institute for Clinical and Health Excellence now?


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 15, 2021)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Isn’t it National Institute for Clinical and Health Excellence now?


It is, as others have pointed out, but as far as I know the acronym used is still NICE.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 15, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It is, as others have pointed out, but as far as I know the acronym used is still NICE.



Actually the acronym is now awful.
It should be NICHE.


----------



## killer b (Jul 15, 2021)

Just reading that Dawn Foster, formerly of the graun, has died suddenly. Binning her was one of their more egregious recent down-the-pan activities. Surprisingly sad about it tbh, she was sound.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2021)

killer b said:


> Just reading that Dawn Foster, formerly of the graun, has died suddenly. Binning her was one of their more egregious recent down-the-pan activities. Surprisingly sad about it tbh, she was sound.


Been quite ill of late hasn't she?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Been quite ill of late hasn't she?


So Twitter said


----------



## belboid (Jul 15, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Been quite ill of late hasn't she?


For many years and was back in with issues relating to it the last couple of weeks.   Where she met a conspiraloon trying to get her out of the ward because she was ‘shedding’ 

Hounded horribly by the terfs at the guardian (and outside it)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> So Twitter said


Well, I meant she's been frequently posting about being in hospital, going into hospital, or coming out of hospital


----------



## killer b (Jul 15, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Well, I meant she's been frequently posting about being in hospital, going into hospital, or coming out of hospital


I think she had some long-term illness, but I'm not sure what it was. Something that involves fits and hospitalisations.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2021)

killer b said:


> I think she had some long-term illness, but I'm not sure what it was. Something that involves fits and hospitalisations.


Epilepsy


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2021)

For anyone who wished to


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 15, 2021)

That’s pretty sad, one of the few people I followed on Twitter back when I was active there and she seemed pretty grounded politically, and I don’t think from particularly privileged roots, probably unusual at the graun. Don’t get may voices like that in the ‘mainstream’. A good human.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 15, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Nice guidance to induce minority ethnic pregnancies earlier condemned as racist​I suppose that’s better than nasty guidance.



I know which thread this is and what it's about, but still: am amazed how many posts about them using "Nice" instead of "NICE" with almost none about what the article and headline is actually about!

I mean, I know Nice/NICE and the NHS is institutionally racist, as is medicine/healthcare overall, but I still find it shocking, the content of this article. Shocking and enraging, and worthy of a post.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 15, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Epilepsy



And schwannomatosis.


----------



## elbows (Jul 15, 2021)

I think she broke some bones in a fall, went to hospital, got pumped full of drugs and released from hospital, then passed away unexpectedly very soon after release.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 15, 2021)

This is the article Dawn Foster wrote, that led Tom Watson to have her sacked by them. Wouldn't it be awkward if it reached the top of their "most read" and/or more "most shared" charts:

If Tom Watson had guts, he would quit Labour. Instead he is weakening the party | Dawn Foster


----------



## 8ball (Jul 15, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> This is the article Dawn Foster wrote, that led Tom Watson to have her sacked by them. Wouldn't it be awkward if it reached the top of their "most read" and/or more "most shared" charts:
> 
> If Tom Watson had guts, he would quit Labour. Instead he is weakening the party | Dawn Foster


Oh, the name had escaped me but I know the face.
I liked her.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 15, 2021)

8ball said:


> Oh, the name had escaped me but I know the face.
> I liked her.



Yes she was pretty darn fabulous. A great loss.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 16, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Yes she was pretty darn fabulous. A great loss.



Only 33 as well.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 16, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I know which thread this is and what it's about, but still: am amazed how many posts about them using "Nice" instead of "NICE" with almost none about what the article and headline is actually about!
> 
> I mean, I know Nice/NICE and the NHS is institutionally racist, as is medicine/healthcare overall, but I still find it shocking, the content of this article. Shocking and enraging, and worthy of a post.



I hope there's more to it, but it seems, from the other categories included, to be a blanket recommendation based on higher maternal deaths without taking into account the reasons for them. Recommending advising early induction - and it is only advising, at least - makes more sense for the other categories (over age 35 and with a high BMI) - because there are actual medical reasons for that. It would still be dubious to suggest early induction without any other medical reasons, but at least it's because those circumstances have do sometimes actually cause complications during childbirth. 

For people who are from all the huge number of non-white categories included there wouldn't be any actual medical reason. just societal. That's very different.

Blind reliance on statistics does not make for good medical guidance.



belboid said:


> (Tries to defy urge to point out the alternative meaning of ‘nice’ isn’t a noun.  Fails)



Still can't help myself - if it's NICE, the organisation, then it is a noun.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Jul 16, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> This is the article Dawn Foster wrote, that led Tom Watson to have her sacked by them. Wouldn't it be awkward if it reached the top of their "most read" and/or more "most shared" charts:
> 
> If Tom Watson had guts, he would quit Labour. Instead he is weakening the party | Dawn Foster


fantastic article: you can see why the Guardian scum canned her...


----------



## strung out (Jul 16, 2021)

One of the best Dawn Foster tributes


----------



## killer b (Jul 16, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> This is the article Dawn Foster wrote, that led Tom Watson to have her sacked by them.


I've seen this claim a lot on twitter in the last 24 hours - does it have any evidence to back it up, or is it just the timing of her sacking being relatively close to this article being written (some two months after it was published)?


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 16, 2021)

killer b said:


> I've seen this claim a lot on twitter in the last 24 hours - does it have any evidence to back it up, or is it just the timing of her sacking being relatively close to this article being written (some two months after it was published)?


It was the last article by her they published, and I assume she must have stated this herself given the widespread claim. She discusses The Guardian in this podcast -  (not listened to it yet)


----------



## killer b (Jul 16, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> It was the last article by her they published


ah yes, I missed that. fair cop.


----------



## killer b (Jul 16, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> It was the last article by her they published, and I assume she must have stated this herself given the widespread claim. She discusses The Guardian in this podcast -  (not listened to it yet)



she tackles the Tom Watson article about 35 minutes in. sounds like a bleak place to work tbf


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 16, 2021)

killer b said:


> she tackles the Tom Watson article about 35 minutes in. sounds like a bleak place to work tbf


I don't think I've dared mention it on here before - but I worked there as a naive twentysomething in a support role back in the mid 90s. I enjoyed my job and on the whole it was a decent employer. But the experience taught me an awful lot about class.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 16, 2021)

Just catching up with this, RIP to one of the only decent writers in the British media. Nice Jaroslav Hasek reference in there too.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 21, 2021)

The bridge from Millfields Park to Leyton Marshes, over the river Lea, yesterday evening:


----------



## Brainaddict (Jul 25, 2021)

What a stinker of a piece Labour must say it out loud: Brexit needs to be reversed

It's possible to make an argument to rejoin the EU, but it is not possible for this man to make an argument to rejoin the EU that anyone but guardian/observer towers would listen to.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 25, 2021)

It’ll be rejoining the single market / EEA first anyway. Nobody with any political sense will be screaming to go back in feet first.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> What a stinker of a piece Labour must say it out loud: Brexit needs to be reversed
> 
> It's possible to make an argument to rejoin the EU, but it is not possible for this man to make an argument to rejoin the EU that anyone but guardian/observer towers would listen to.


The thing about brexit is it can't be reversed. We will never have again the deal we had on 22 June 2016. If we rejoin the EU we will never regain the rebate. We will have to forfeit the pound. The influence we formerly enjoyed in Brussels will no longer exist. Our reaccession will not be the return of the prodigal son but the scuttling in of a much chastened child forced to return to the parental home


----------



## xenon (Jul 25, 2021)

I’m not gonna even click on that. Blatant click bait delusional nonsense.


----------



## belboid (Jul 26, 2021)

Diving outfits have changed a tad since I last watched


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 26, 2021)

Nice Dawn Foster obit/tribute here: 








						We Will Never Forget Dawn Foster
					

Jacobin writer Dawn Foster passed away last week at the age of 34. Dawn is irreplaceable, but we can seek to emulate her extraordinary combination of compassion and political commitment.




					jacobinmag.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2021)

Video shows salmon injured by unlivable water temperatures after heatwave
					

A conservation group recorded the video after a heatwave in the Pacific north-west on a day when water temperatures breached 70F




					www.theguardian.com
				



it's this sort of thing i really object to, the last sentence in my snip. which sounds like some liberal wankstain is preaching to you (which of course they are). in any real newspaper they would have left off the 'and given that', taken out the comma and replaced it with so.

e2a: and the middle sentence in the paragraph isn't all that either


----------



## killer b (Jul 30, 2021)

The Headline:



what he actually says:


----------



## agricola (Aug 2, 2021)

You find sly digs in the strangest places nowadays:



> Once published, the memos showed the prince to be a formidable lobbyist, badgering ministers privately on pet causes – from alternative medicines to the replacement of Lynx helicopters and *the alleged mistreatment of farmers by supermarkets.*


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 7, 2021)

Blin date with a  Holocaust _questioner_ _._


----------



## two sheds (Aug 7, 2021)

Good to see you post again - but doesn't mention holocaust in the piece?


----------



## Shechemite (Aug 7, 2021)

Who’s Eddie?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 7, 2021)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Who’s Eddie?


Bruce Dickinson's alter ego (not to be confused with Bruce Wayne's)


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 7, 2021)

Those Guardian blind dates tend to have some right cards in.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 8, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> Those Guardian blind dates tend to have some right cards in.


Typically from apocryphal suits, like the King of Arseholes


----------



## rekil (Aug 8, 2021)

butchersapron said:


> Blin date with a  Holocaust _questioner_ _._


What level of loonery is he on.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2021)

rekil said:


> What level of loonery is he on.


Full on 100%. He was behind Beeley's first bristol event.


----------



## Serene (Aug 9, 2021)

Many Telegraph readers have become radicalised with Tory Propaganda.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Many Telegraph readers have become radicalised with Tory Propaganda.


How does this happen exactly?


----------



## Serene (Aug 9, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> How does this happen exactly?


Repeated reading of it.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Repeated reading of it.


I take it  for granted you have some knowledge of radicalisation processes?


----------



## Serene (Aug 9, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> I take it  for granted you have some knowledge of radicalisation processes?


Dont take things for granted.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Dont take things for granted.


Good advice


----------



## Serene (Aug 9, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Good advice


Thank you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2021)

Serene said:


> Many Telegraph readers have become radicalised with Tory Propaganda.


And this is relevant to the guardian how?


----------



## rekil (Aug 10, 2021)

butchersapron said:


> Full on 100%. He was behind Beeley's first bristol event.


I had a feeling you'd say this.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2021)

I thought I got it from this thread but in retrospect it was from elsewhere. Interview a feminist academic but obviously as soon as she says anything non-Guardian-PC, it's "crikey" and she's been "drinking the Kool-Aid that is Judith Butler, high priestess of gender theory", make your excuses and leave, and apparently you can only deal with the "pedagogic brain ache" via "a very large bar of chocolate".









						Amia Srinivasan: ‘Sex as a subject isn’t weird. It’s very, very serious’
					

With her debut book, The Right to Sex, a 36-year-old Oxford don is dazzling everyone. She discusses porn, gender dysphoria - and why her students are no snowflakes




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2021)

From the corrections watch department:



> This article was amended on 11 August 2021. Figures showed fully vaccinated people were about half as likely to test positive after coming into contact with someone who had Covid, rather than “three times less likely” as an earlier version said.











						Delta variant renders herd immunity from Covid ‘mythical’
					

Head of Oxford Vaccine Group rules out overall immunity, but also questions need for booster jabs




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 15, 2021)

There is holiday hell and then there is self-catering
					

No salt and pepper, no spices, not enough loo roll – welcome to your holiday cottage




					www.theguardian.com
				




Particularly enjoyed this middle class holiday hell piece, oh the humanity etc


----------



## kabbes (Aug 15, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> There is holiday hell and then there is self-catering
> 
> 
> No salt and pepper, no spices, not enough loo roll – welcome to your holiday cottage
> ...


This person just needs to replace their column with the words, “I have no idea how to plan ahead.  It’s amazing that I can find my feet in the morning.”

It’s self-catering and they even get surprised by the fact that they have to provide their own food.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 15, 2021)

No salt and pepper though


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 15, 2021)

two sheds said:


> No salt and pepper though


Intolerable cruety


----------



## Gasmantell (Aug 15, 2021)

The leader in Guardian twattery is professional Brummy and *squeeze of current editor, K. Viner,* Adrian Chiles. 
His many examples of verbal flatulence don't need to be read to be believed. 
In the Guardian Group annual report reference is made to the fact that cronyism is alive and well (maybe they dont actually put it like that) and on the rise - a specific reference to him and her.
He has been the subject of a couple of mentions in Private Eye (yeah, that'll make a difference) - even a special HackWatch piece. 
Moderation on his articles seems even tighter than normal and I challenge anyone to get any kind of criticism of the Sainted Chiles in there. 
Shouldn't be surprised I suppose that the Graun is sinking lower - paying the editors boyfriend for a few hundred words of fluff whilst making 100+ journos redundant is typical MSM behavious.

 Watch out for more articles like
"How breaking a shoe lace made me realise my self-worth"
" Why coughing when you're farting can be a life changer"
" More ruminations of dog excrement and finding my inner strength"
"I killled a seagull, now I'm not afraid of flying"
etc.


----------



## lazythursday (Aug 15, 2021)

I know all about the cronyism, but I quite enjoy Chiles' banal columns. They are close to a work of art at times. Much worse things in The Guardian in my view.


----------



## Gasmantell (Aug 15, 2021)

That's as may be - the point being that you shouldnt have to sleep with the editor to get a gig in my view.


----------



## lazythursday (Aug 15, 2021)

Gasmantell said:


> That's as may be - the point being that you shouldnt have to sleep with the editor to get a gig in my view.


When I worked at the Guardian (non journo role) way back in the 90s it was really common to find that the graduate trainees or various junior staff were related to some long standing Guardian writer. I doubt much has changed. Journalism is rife with nepotism. I don't think it's a good look for the editor to employ her boyfriend but I don't think it's as bad as the way a small section of upper middle class people have a stranglehold on much of journalism. At least Chiles has some existing experience/celebrity/notoriety and is not from north London.


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 15, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> When I worked at the Guardian (non journo role) way back in the 90s it was really common to find that the graduate trainees or various junior staff were related to some long standing Guardian writer. I doubt much has changed. Journalism is rife with nepotism. I don't think it's a good look for the editor to employ her boyfriend but I don't think it's as bad as the way a small section of upper middle class people have a stranglehold on much of journalism. At least Chiles has some existing experience/celebrity/notoriety and is not from north London.


Chiles is probably viewed as the “voice of the red wall”


----------



## billy_bob (Aug 15, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> I know all about the cronyism, but I quite enjoy Chiles' banal columns. They are close to a work of art at times. Much worse things in The Guardian in my view.



There was one the other day that went something like 'I've been called the worst writer in recorded history and here's why I think that's a good thing'. I think he's just trolling us at this point.


----------



## Edie (Aug 15, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> There is holiday hell and then there is self-catering
> 
> 
> No salt and pepper, no spices, not enough loo roll – welcome to your holiday cottage
> ...


Yknow that kind of totally fucking myopic middle class bullshit makes me want to kick something to death. Really it does. Whinging about the Welcome Basket of a UK holiday home cos you can’t go abroad. That’s the summary of the article. With literally fuck all awareness that most people can’t afford a holiday full stop.

But the thing that really fucking boils me up is the hyperbole and _hysteria_ that the Guardian pumps out daily about about the NHS and covid. It’s all very dressed up as objective middle class news, but underneath it’s an agenda driven shit show of worst case scenario combined with emotive pathos. And it pisses me RIGHT OFF.

The Guardian is a middle class tabloid masquerading as serious news and I passionately hate it every time I see it.


----------



## oryx (Aug 15, 2021)

Edie said:


> Yknow that kind of totally fucking myopic middle class bullshit makes me want to kick something to death. Really it does. Whinging about the Welcome Basket of a UK holiday home cos you can’t go abroad. That’s the summary of the article. With literally fuck all awareness that most people can’t afford a holiday full stop.
> 
> But the thing that really fucking boils me up is the hyperbole and _hysteria_ that the Guardian pumps out daily about about the NHS and covid. It’s all very dressed up as objective middle class news, but underneath it’s an agenda driven shit show of worst case scenario combined with emotive pathos. And it pisses me RIGHT OFF.
> 
> The Guardian is a middle class tabloid masquerading as serious news and I passionately hate it every time I see it.


I'm 100% with you on the entitled middle class idiot and the self-catering holiday with no herbs    but interested to know what you think the Guardian's agenda is re the NHS and Covid.

I really dislike and am irritated by a lot of their editorial and lifestyle stuff, but (considering the cesspit that is most of the British media) don't find their news coverage all that bad compared to some.


----------



## BillRiver (Aug 15, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I thought I got it from this thread but in retrospect it was from elsewhere. Interview a feminist academic but obviously as soon as she says anything non-Guardian-PC, it's "crikey" and she's been "drinking the Kool-Aid that is Judith Butler, high priestess of gender theory", make your excuses and leave, and apparently you can only deal with the "pedagogic brain ache" via "a very large bar of chocolate".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for that, I wouldn't have read it if you hadn't posted it. I hadn't heard of the academic interviewed, but she sounds right up my street - I'm going to try to read some of her writing now.

What you say about the article is spot on as well! Such a sudden, lurching, change of tone in the final paragraphs! Lol


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 15, 2021)

two sheds said:


> No salt and pepper though


it’s self-catering ffs. you’re supposed to bring your own comestibles


----------



## stdP (Aug 15, 2021)

Personally, I'd ban the submission of anything from the Graun's lifestyle section from this thread as too below the belt. I'm as middle-class petite bourgeoise as they come (or at least I am for a northener) but the sheer po-faced self-indulgence and tin-earedness and other overly-hyphenated adjectives of the lifestyle section makes me throw up a little every time. The news is frequently well put together (although I'll concede Edie's point about a lot of overly emotive folderol being crowbarred in) but much of their other output is risible.

And no, I've no idea why anyone would expect self-catering accommodation to include a full cruet set and spice rack.

For what it's worth, those of you using ublock can use a simple filter like so to omit the lifestyle section from the front page entirely.

```
www.theguardian.com###lifestyle
```


----------



## two sheds (Aug 15, 2021)

stdP said:


> Personally, I'd ban the submission of anything from the Graun's lifestyle section from this thread as too below the belt. I'm as middle-class petite bourgeoise as they come (or at least I am for a northener) but the sheer po-faced self-indulgence and tin-earedness and other overly-hyphenated adjectives of the lifestyle section makes me throw up a little every time. The news is frequently well put together (although I'll concede Edie's point about a lot of overly emotive folderol being crowbarred in) but much of their other output is risible.
> 
> And no, I've no idea why anyone would expect self-catering accommodation to include a full cruet set and spice rack.
> 
> ...


They could at least have provided salt and pepper though  not too much to ask.


----------



## stdP (Aug 15, 2021)

two sheds said:


> They could at least have provided salt and pepper though  not too much to ask.



I went to a self-cater AirBnB in Austria once that had a bunch of condiments in the kitchen. But the salt wasn't even shade-grown and the pepper wasn't first-pressing. Not being able to communicate my feelings through overpaid and overwrought column inches, I left a mindful upper-decker in the cistern and a sustainably strangled stray dog in the wardrobe.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 15, 2021)

two sheds said:


> They could at least have provided salt and pepper though  not too much to ask.


is it? bet people steal them. it’s self catering so people are expected to bring what they need


----------



## kabbes (Aug 15, 2021)

two sheds said:


> They could at least have provided salt and pepper though  not too much to ask.


All self-catering cottages I’ve been to since Covid started have removed anything that could provide any hint of pathogen transmission. That includes emptying the cupboards


----------



## two sheds (Aug 15, 2021)

That's as may be, but political correctness has no place when it's ruining someone's holiday


----------



## fieryjack (Aug 16, 2021)

stdP said:


> Personally, I'd ban the submission of anything from the Graun's lifestyle section from this thread as too below the belt. I'm as middle-class petite bourgeoise as they come (or at least I am for a northener) but the sheer po-faced self-indulgence and tin-earedness and other overly-hyphenated adjectives of the lifestyle section makes me throw up a little every time.


Rhik Samadder's columns are usually good, otherwise +1


----------



## Santino (Aug 16, 2021)

Our self-catering cottage has salt, pepper and three kinds of vinegar.


----------



## hitmouse (Aug 16, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I thought I got it from this thread but in retrospect it was from elsewhere. Interview a feminist academic but obviously as soon as she says anything non-Guardian-PC, it's "crikey" and she's been "drinking the Kool-Aid that is Judith Butler, high priestess of gender theory", make your excuses and leave, and apparently you can only deal with the "pedagogic brain ache" via "a very large bar of chocolate".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The question about her students feels a bit like a classic "so, would you like to slag [x group] off now?" invitation as well.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 16, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I thought I got it from this thread but in retrospect it was from elsewhere. Interview a feminist academic but obviously as soon as she says anything non-Guardian-PC, it's "crikey" and she's been "drinking the Kool-Aid that is Judith Butler, high priestess of gender theory", make your excuses and leave, and apparently you can only deal with the "pedagogic brain ache" via "a very large bar of chocolate".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think the worst bit about that isn't so much that stupid tone, it's more the way a statement about some trans-exclusive lesbians is apparently a statement about all lesbians. Pretty snidey tbh.


----------



## Brainaddict (Aug 16, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I think the worst bit about that isn't so much that stupid tone, it's more the way a statement about some trans-exclusive lesbians is apparently a statement about all lesbians. Pretty snidey tbh.


It's actually quite a transparent lie isn't it, and hopefully most people can see it. She was not generalising about all lesbians. I just had a look at her twitter feed to see if she responded but it seems she decided to rise above it and just didn't tweet out the article as she does with other major articles she's featured in.

I would say her suggestion about why some cis lesbians become terfs is quite speculative (unless she's using research she's not citing) and many interviewers might choose to challenge it on those grounds. But just lying about what she said in the next paragraph is quite amazing.


----------



## belboid (Aug 16, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> It's actually quite a transparent lie isn't it, and hopefully most people can see it. She was not generalising about all lesbians. I just had a look at her twitter feed to see if she responded but it seems she decided to rise above it and just didn't tweet out the article as she does with other major articles she's featured in.
> 
> I would say her suggestion about why some cis lesbians become terfs is quite speculative (unless she's using research she's not citing) and many interviewers might choose to challenge it on those grounds. But just lying about what she said in the next paragraph is quite amazing.


Yeah, it’s the fact of the direct quote which so obviously didn’t say what she says a mere sentence later.  Does she think we’re fucking thick?


----------



## Gasmantell (Aug 16, 2021)

"
lazythursday said: 


           When I worked at the Guardian (non journo role) way back in the 90s it was really common to find that the graduate trainees or various junior staff were related to some long standing Guardian writer. I doubt much has changed. Journalism is rife with nepotism. I don't think it's a good look for the editor to employ her boyfriend but I don't think it's as bad as the way a small section of upper middle class people have a stranglehold on much of journalism. At least Chiles has some existing experience/celebrity/notoriety and is not from north London.    "    


 it is worth noting though that the Guardian Media Group (owners of the paper) have commented on the behaviour of their editor in the last two annual reports - possibly because tshe clearly has conflict of interest and is abusing her position on the worthless (imo) writer man-Chiles. 
Why not spend that money on investigative journalism that may uphold the fine principles the Guardian is meant to support?

Also, just because he's a 'name' is no guarantee that he has anything worth saying - he's a football reporter and magazine show host, not Hunter S Thompson...

PS My wife worked at the Observer (non journo role) in the 70's which only goes to show - well, nothing really...


----------



## Elpenor (Aug 16, 2021)

stdP said:


> Personally, I'd ban the submission of anything from the Graun's lifestyle section from this thread as too below the belt. I'm as middle-class petite bourgeoise as they come (or at least I am for a northener) but the sheer po-faced self-indulgence and tin-earedness and other overly-hyphenated adjectives of the lifestyle section makes me throw up a little every time. The news is frequently well put together (although I'll concede Edie's point about a lot of overly emotive folderol being crowbarred in) but much of their other output is risible.
> 
> And no, I've no idea why anyone would expect self-catering accommodation to include a full cruet set and spice rack.
> 
> ...


Agree it is a bit of an open goal.


----------



## killer b (Aug 20, 2021)

I hate everyone interviewed in this piece. 









						‘Inheritance is a problem’: parents on what they will leave to their children
					

Following Daniel Craig’s remarks that he will spend his money or give it away, we asked readers what their plans are




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## kabbes (Aug 20, 2021)

killer b said:


> I hate everyone interviewed in this piece.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Quite a few of them weren’t actually as bad as I was expecting.  E.g.



> My son has a job in IT and earns good money, so he does not need mine and there are much more important uses for it. If I do leave him anything, it will be a token gift only and I’ve got a good pension which should cover my care needs.
> 
> Our culture has come to value owning property, stuff, above all living beings. If the failure of our government to address decarbonisation and ecological destruction continues over the next 10 years, I will give all my money to whichever organisations are doing the best job of persuading the government to act to build a new economic system based on a circular economy that respects all living beings.


I mean, I can criticise the bourgeois assumptions inherent in that statement but I don’t _hate_ the person.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 20, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Quite a few of them weren’t actually as bad as I was expecting.  E.g.
> 
> 
> I mean, I can criticise the bourgeois assumptions inherent in that statement but I don’t _hate_ the person.


None of them seem unusually awful people; they want to pass things on to their children. That's pretty standard. It's the fact that they're unusually rich and can pass on a lot more than average which is the problem. Their kids could be my next landlord.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 20, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> None of them seem unusually awful people; they want to pass things on to their children. That's pretty standard. It's the fact that they're unusually rich and can pass on a lot more than average which is the problem. Their kids could be my next landlord.


My point is that a lot/some of them _don’t_ want to pass on anything to their children


----------



## agricola (Aug 21, 2021)

‘The hypocrisy is nauseating’: Wes Streeting on state school arts cuts
					

Shadow child poverty secretary wants all pupils to have access to arts education after decade of Tory cuts




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## stavros (Aug 29, 2021)

Hands up who agrees Manchester City are "bereft".


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 30, 2021)

Some of the most nauseatingly flagrant mutual apple-polishing the Graun has ever published. Pass the sick bag.








						‘Parts of my brain light up when he’s talking’: Nigella Lawson and Mark Cousins in conversation
					

The cook and the film-maker, who struck up a friendship on Twitter, discuss aesthetics, watching and being watched, and the benefits of ageing




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## UrbaneFox (Sep 1, 2021)

Help me, Urbanites. Which one do you think I should go for? Recycled Anya Hindmarsh £125, Lowe £175, Paul Smith £125, Merlot £90, Aspers £70 or the budget option at £34?









						Play your cards: 12 stylish card holders for contactless payments – in pictures
					

Tap and go with a sleek card holder in punchy red or shiny silver pineapple leather




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 1, 2021)

Jesus F Christ: 









						‘The smartest person in any room anywhere’: in defence of Elon Musk, by Douglas Coupland
					

He’s the Silicon Valley Übermensch who wants us to colonise Mars and who can wipe out billions of dollars with a single tweet. So what’s not to love?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

UrbaneFox said:


> Help me, Urbanites. Which one do you think I should go for? Recycled Anya Hindmarsh £125, Lowe £175, Paul Smith £125, Merlot £90, Aspers £70 or the budget option at £34?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These are wallets aren't they? I don't think it's a massive surprise that they come in a range of prices.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 1, 2021)

True - but there's an even wider range of prices than the Guardian have given


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 1, 2021)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Jesus F Christ:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is all kinds of wrong and terrible


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

two sheds said:


> True - but there's an even wider range of prices than the Guardian have given


Sure there is - everyone else has google and can find cheaper, uglier versions of more or less everything in the world too, if they want to.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> Sure there is - everyone else has google and can find cheaper, uglier versions of more or less everything in the world too, if they want to.


So an average price of over £100 for a card holder represents what?  Good value?  The typical reader?


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> So an average price of over £100 for a card holder represents what?  Good value?  The typical reader?


I'm not sure what a wallet should cost tbh. If it was made of high quality materials by skilled craftspeople on decent wages, probably a lot more than £10. TBF looking at the things they've listed there, many of them probably aren't - but regardless, value for money does not = cheap, and plenty of people prioritise spending more money on high quality items that look nice and will last over cheap items that don look nice, and will probably fall apart next year.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 1, 2021)

Fair point, although the people making the expensive wallets are likely paid as little as those making cheap ones.


----------



## strung out (Sep 1, 2021)

It's just the usual kind of content you've been getting in fashion supplements of newspapers for years isn't it?


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Fair point, although the people making the expensive wallets are likely paid as little as those making cheap ones.


I had a look through the more expensive ones - the Paul Smith is made in Italy, the Lowe one in Spain, the Tusting one in the UK. So, no.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Sep 1, 2021)

I've recently discovered that I've got pockets in my trousers, so I've just saved myself loads of money.


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 1, 2021)

There are always several wallets, purses, and cardholders in my local charity shops.


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 1, 2021)

A friend of mine makes cardholders out of used tetrapak (eg juice cartons). There are simple guides on how to do this available for free online.


----------



## Serene (Sep 1, 2021)

All the people who are putting out determined comments about Ronaldo not being a good buy for Man Utd are ALL non-Man Utd supporters. All the Man Utd supporters are loving the purchase. Does anyone see a pattern here?


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> A friend of mine makes cardholders out of used tetrapak (eg juice cartons). There are simple guides on how to do this available for free online.


you can make perfectly serviceable shoes for free by tying bits of old tyre to your feet. yet for some reason, people insist on buying them instead.


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 1, 2021)

My last wallet was acquired by my ex, it was given away as a freebie by a bank whose conference she went to (JPMC I think) so I must have had it about 4 years or so. It seems good quality, brown leather so will probably keep me going for a good few years. No idea how much one would cost normally


----------



## two sheds (Sep 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> I had a look through the more expensive ones - the Paul Smith is made in Italy, the Lowe one in Spain, the Tusting one in the UK. So, no.


The Lakeland one is made in UK too - or site says 95% of their products are. I'd have thought the process would be largely automated so hard to say what % of price goes on wages. 

As strung out remarks though, nothing really special. It would have been good if the Guardian had included this sort of stuff in the 'article' which unless I'm missing something has just a photo of the outside and link to the manufacturer's site. Cheap way for them to fill space and attract advertisers.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 1, 2021)

UrbaneFox said:


> Help me, Urbanites. Which one do you think I should go for? Recycled Anya Hindmarsh £125, Lowe £175, Paul Smith £125, Merlot £90, Aspers £70 or the budget option at £34?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is £8.59.



			https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vicloon-Stainless-Wallets-Blocking-Protector/dp/B07P81VZHR/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=metal+credit+card+holder&qid=1630496159&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A2I46PN9E4LTV4&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUEdMTjFSUlJVRlBEJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzQ5Mjk0MUtNNTlQN0tYNkdSNCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTA1OTYyMTBRWUZRSFU4NkIyQiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

two sheds said:


> The Lakeland one is made in UK too - or site says 95% of their products are. I'd have thought the process would be largely automated so hard to say what % of price goes on wages.


If it was made in the UK, it would say it was made in the UK in the product description. Also, it's minging.


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> This is £8.59.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vicloon-Stainless-Wallets-Blocking-Protector/dp/B07P81VZHR/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=metal+credit+card+holder&qid=1630496159&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A2I46PN9E4LTV4&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUEdMTjFSUlJVRlBEJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzQ5Mjk0MUtNNTlQN0tYNkdSNCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMTA1OTYyMTBRWUZRSFU4NkIyQiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


You can buy stamps for as little as 65p each, but apparently some people pay hundreds - sometimes thousands - of pounds for stamps that they think look nicer.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 1, 2021)

I change wallets frequently and donate the used ones full of drug residue to the charity shop.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> you can make perfectly serviceable shoes for free by tying bits of old tyre to your feet. yet for some reason, people insist on buying them instead.


If it was good enough for Imperial Japanese Army holdouts on remote Pacific Islands then it should be good enough for you, Mr Dandy Dan Smarty Pants


----------



## kabbes (Sep 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> I'm not sure what a wallet should cost tbh. If it was made of high quality materials by skilled craftspeople on decent wages, probably a lot more than £10. TBF looking at the things they've listed there, many of them probably aren't - but regardless, value for money does not = cheap, and plenty of people prioritise spending more money on high quality items that look nice and will last over cheap items that don look nice, and will probably fall apart next year.


It’s almost like there is a middle ground between £10 and £70.


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> It’s almost like there is a middle ground between £10 and £70.


Yeah, it's about £35


----------



## kabbes (Sep 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> Yeah, it's about £35


So you are persisting with the view that the range of prices presented in the article, with its one sole option under £70 (at the bargain price of £34), represents the readership’s actual normal spending range rather than it being, in truth, a piece of aspirational consumerism designed to sow dissatisfaction in readers for the purpose of encouraging further consumption?


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> So you are persisting with the view that the range of prices presented in the article, with its one sole option under £70 (at the bargain price of £34), represents the readership’s actual normal spending range rather than it being, in truth, a piece of aspirational consumerism designed to sow dissatisfaction in readers for the purpose of encouraging further consumption?


are we reading the same article? there's three wallets under £40, and another at £49?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> are we reading the same article? there's three wallets under £40, and another at £49?


I’m going by the summary originally posted, which listed six wallets, only one of which was under £70. I guess we’re talking at cross-purposes if that isn’t representative of the article itself.


----------



## killer b (Sep 1, 2021)

perish the thought that the contents of a newspaper article might be misrepresented in a post on social media.


----------



## oryx (Sep 1, 2021)

It's entry-level luxury goods consumption. 

It's the slippery slope to £2,000 plus handbags being on sale (and people buying them) when people are going to foodbanks and scared shitless over the £20 reduction in universal credit.

Both are seen as completely acceptable by the majority of people (not on here where people are generally more aware/questioning/compassionate, but U75 isn't representative).


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 1, 2021)

killer b said:


> You can buy stamps for as little as 65p each, but apparently some people pay hundreds - sometimes thousands - of pounds for stamps that they think look nicer.



It is actually very similar to the one I use myself. Yes, I appreciate that there are more aesthetically pleasing designs, but it does the job.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 5, 2021)

This is possibly one of the weirdest takes I’ve ever seen the Guardian have on a subject.

So South Australia are currently trialling an app that they hope to roll out across the state to enforce lockdowns. The app combines facial recognition and geolocation technology.

The government will randomly contact users to demand their location. Users will have 15 minutes to respond with a photo of them self to prove they are where they should be. If they fail to respond they will get a phone call, and if they do not have a sufficient excuse they will get a visit from a friendly police officer.

So what do the Guardian say? Well they’ve reported on it and not denied anything about it. But they did however mention, quite randomly and with no apparent reason, that Fox News doesn’t like the idea! I guess that means I should approve of the app.

Thanks for that, Guardian


----------



## fieryjack (Sep 5, 2021)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> This is possibly one of the weirdest takes I’ve ever seen the Guardian have on a subject.


they also printed this article yesterday: Why the industry should heed China’s crackdown on video game players

I wouldn't disagree that some commercial mechanics in the video game world are reprehensible, but the tone of this piece is all over the place.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 5, 2021)

killer b said:


> you can make perfectly serviceable shoes for free by tying bits of old tyre to your feet. yet for some reason, people insist on buying them instead.



What I like about this comparison is how it rests on the well-established fact that good quality cardholders are as important for a person's quality of life as functional shoes, so it isn't fatuous at all.


----------



## belboid (Sep 7, 2021)

They printed an excellent interview with Judith Butler, by Jules Gleeson, this morning.  








						Judith Butler: ‘We need to rethink the category of woman’
					

The author of the ground-breaking book Gender Trouble says we should not be surprised when the category of women expands to include trans women




					www.theguardian.com
				



But this evening they decide that they needed to 'reflect developments which occurred after the interview took place' and removed several paragraphs.  What developments had occurred? It would seem some people objected to her characterisations of terfs.   And i thought it was the terfs who were meant to be cancelled.

The omitted paragraphs were:


----------



## two sheds (Sep 7, 2021)

they've been omitted 

Eta: now added


----------



## Albert (Sep 8, 2021)

belboid said:


> But this evening they decide that they needed to 'reflect developments which occurred after the interview took place' and removed several paragraphs. What developments had occurred? It would seem some people objected to her characterisations of terfs. And i thought it was the terfs who were meant to be cancelled.
> 
> The omitted paragraphs were:



You have omitted the following paragraph (also deleted from the article) which should also appear before the ones you have quoted.  This paragraph is the question the journalist is asking (the other paragraphs is Butler's response):

_"...It seems that some within feminist movements are becoming sympathetic to these far-right campaigns. This year’s furore around Wi Spa in Los Angeles saw an online outrage by transphobes followed by bloody protests organised by the Proud Boys. Can we expect this alliance to continue?"_

Diffchecker

You are probably aware of the Wi Spa incident

Person charged with indecent exposure at LA spa after viral Instagram video

The 'transphobes' were objecting to a male hanging out in the women's changing area. Turns out this male was a convicted serial sex offender.

I guess this didn't fit the narrative, so it was deleted to make Butler's comments about 'terfs' look less derranged.


----------



## belboid (Sep 8, 2021)

Albert said:


> You have omitted the following paragraph (also deleted from the article) which should also appear before the ones you have quoted.  This paragraph is the question the journalist is asking (the other paragraphs is Butler's response):
> 
> _"...It seems that some within feminist movements are becoming sympathetic to these far-right campaigns. This year’s furore around Wi Spa in Los Angeles saw an online outrage by transphobes followed by bloody protests organised by the Proud Boys. Can we expect this alliance to continue?"_
> 
> ...


The bigots st the spa claimed the interloper was trans.   There is zero evidence this person is/was trans.  And the bigots (your bigots) did then side with the proud boy scum.   That’s whose side you’re on.  

if you disagree, write a letter isn’t that what you do best?

tldr - terfs are scum


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 8, 2021)

belboid said:


> The bigots st the spa claimed the interloper was trans.   There is zero evidence this person is/was trans.  And the bigots (your bigots) did then side with the proud boy scum.   That’s whose side you’re on.
> 
> if you disagree, write a letter isn’t that what you do best?
> 
> tldr - terfs are scum


Not an expert on this incident but a trans woman with a record was arrested for it: Wi Spa controversy - Wikipedia

Surely the line should be that it's having a sex offender hanging around changing rooms that is a problem, not having a trans person in changing rooms that is wrong. No one has ever claimed trans people never commit crimes. But a group of people shouldn't be blamed for the crimes of a few of its members. We don't let people get away with that with other identities.


----------



## xenon (Sep 8, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> Not an expert on this incident but a trans woman with a record was arrested for it: Wi Spa controversy - Wikipedia
> 
> Surely the line should be that it's having a sex offender hanging around changing rooms that is a problem, not having a trans person in changing rooms that is wrong. No one has ever claimed trans people never commit crimes. But a group of people shouldn't be blamed for the crimes of a few of its members. We don't let people get away with that with other identities.



except we kinda  do. That’s  One reason why there are women only spaces.
anyway we know where this thread is going. Probably locked by Sunday now.


----------



## xenon (Sep 8, 2021)

How are you going to stop sex offenders going anywhere there might be a changing room.
I can think of a couple of ideas but they probably won’t be approved of.


----------



## belboid (Sep 8, 2021)

Fair play, the link previously provided said their status was unclear.  

As you say, blaming all trans people for the actions of one seems to be more than a tad bigoted.


----------



## belboid (Sep 8, 2021)

xenon said:


> except we kinda  do. That’s  One reason why there are women only spaces.
> anyway we know where this thread is going. Probably locked by Sunday now.


There is no need for it to whatsoever.  The topic under discussion is guardian censorship.  Do you approve?


----------



## ska invita (Sep 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> So you are persisting with the view that the range of prices presented in the article, with its one sole option under £70 (at the bargain price of £34), represents the readership’s actual normal spending range rather than it being, in truth, a piece of aspirational consumerism designed to sow dissatisfaction in readers for the purpose of encouraging further consumption?


how much would you spend on a bath? to the nearest thousand?


----------



## xenon (Sep 8, 2021)

belboid said:


> There is no need for it to whatsoever.  The topic under discussion is guardian censorship.  Do you approve?



nope. It’s pretty shoddy.


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 8, 2021)

belboid said:


> The bigots st the spa claimed the interloper was trans.   There is zero evidence this person is/was trans.  And the bigots (your bigots) did then side with the proud boy scum.   That’s whose side you’re on.
> 
> if you disagree, write a letter isn’t that what you do best?
> 
> tldr - terfs are scum



Most of the bigots aren't T.E.R.F's.

T.E.R.F. has a specific meaning.

A T.E R.F  is a trans-exlusionary radical feminist. The phrase was created by radical feminists to differentiate the types/attitudes of other radical feminists.

It's not helpful to call people T.E.R.F's when we mean transphobes or bigots.

We may believe that all T.E.R.F's are transphobic bigots (or we may not) but not all transphobic bigots are T.E.R.F's either way.

Very few people involved in events at or outside the Wii Spa were radical feminists, or indeed any kind of feminist.


----------



## belboid (Sep 8, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Most of the bigots aren't T.E.R.F's.
> 
> T.E.R.F. has a specific meaning.
> 
> ...


True, tho the actual terf’s did pick up on and use the incident with their usual honesty.   And the incident does show what Butler says in her reply - that the far right use gender essentialism as a form of attack and the terfs (and other exclusionary types) will not oppose them.


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 8, 2021)

belboid said:


> True, tho the actual terf’s did pick up on and use the incident with their usual honesty.   And the incident does show what Butler says in her reply - that the far right use gender essentialism as a form of attack and the terfs (and other exclusionary types) will not oppose them.



Yep.


----------



## Albert (Sep 8, 2021)

belboid said:


> There is no need for it to whatsoever.  The topic under discussion is guardian censorship.  Do you approve?


I agree with this, it's outrageous.  It should have been left as is.  

The Guardian should have added an editor’s note after the journalists question, factually stating the charges and making clear that these were made after the interview.


----------



## Santino (Sep 8, 2021)

I had a look on Twitter and I can't find anyone anywhere who says 'Yes, they were correct to remove the paragraphs.'


----------



## Cerv (Sep 8, 2021)

Why The Guardian Censored Judith Butler on TERFs
					

‘Habitual bigots online are going to do their thing, and usually respond to pieces without even reading them.’




					www.vice.com
				




Vice are on the case of what happened with the Butler interview


----------



## stavros (Sep 12, 2021)

Whilst watching the US Open Andrew Castle has been listening to too much Alanis Morissette:


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 13, 2021)

We own two properties but live in a rented house. Would that affect care funding?
					

We are concerned about what would happen if one of us needed to go into residential care




					www.theguardian.com
				




Won't somebody think of the buy to let arseholes?


----------



## TopCat (Sep 14, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> We own two properties but live in a rented house. Would that affect care funding?
> 
> 
> We are concerned about what would happen if one of us needed to go into residential care
> ...


One should kill the other. Sorted.


----------



## stavros (Sep 14, 2021)

TopCat said:


> One should kill the other. Sorted.


If that happens the state is highly likely to provide board and lodging to the survivor for a prolonged period.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 14, 2021)

stavros said:


> If that happens the state is highly likely to provide board and lodging to the survivor for a prolonged period.


I will chip in


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 15, 2021)

This doesn't work. It just made me want cake.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> This doesn't work. It just made me want cake.
> 
> View attachment 288452


A climate change cake that looks like a flooded coast lining a rapidly desertifying interior


----------



## two sheds (Sep 15, 2021)

Cake addiction is a constant danger.


----------



## stavros (Sep 16, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Cake addiction is a constant danger.


Indeed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2021)

so clive sinclair's died and the guardian has decided to promote him to inventor of the pocket calculator









						Home computing pioneer Sir Clive Sinclair dies aged 81
					

Creator of the landmark ZX Spectrum and the less commercially successful C5 died after a long illness




					www.theguardian.com
				



only their link goes to Sinclair Cambridge pocket calculator | Science Museum Group Collection which says his calculator's from 1973 (and made of cheap components)
sinclair's offering was preceded by japanese, american, and yugoslavian offerings:









						Calculator - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




once again the guardian is full of fail


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 16, 2021)

stavros said:


> Indeed.
> 
> View attachment 288632


wait, that’s not fair. @twosheds should have got those likes, not stavros ! Injustice!


----------



## Cerv (Sep 16, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> so clive sinclair's died and the guardian has decided to promote him to inventor of the pocket calculator
> View attachment 288635
> 
> 
> ...


the BBC bulletins on the radio tonight were also introducing Sinclair as "inventor of the pocket calculator". I wonder if there's a common source of the error in a wire service report or something they've both just copied.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 16, 2021)

Yes I'd always thought it was HP.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 16, 2021)

Sinclair made pocket calculators that were much more affordable than the competition.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 17, 2021)

fishfinger said:


> Sinclair made pocket calculators that were much more affordable than the competition.


But did he invent them? I don't think he did.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 17, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> But did he invent them? I don't think he did.


No. He did not invent them. He helped to make them affordable.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 17, 2021)

He didn't invent them though did he


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 17, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Yes I'd always thought it was HP.


If not HP then one of the Japanese electronic corporations. Or Texas instruments.

Fuck it, I'm going to check.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 17, 2021)

Wikipedia says Texas Instruments were the first to develop a pocket calculator, although a Japanese company called BUSICOM made the first commercially available one.

Have sent a correction request to the BBC. I might have said the error was appalling given the information is easily available.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 17, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Wikipedia says Texas Instruments were the first to develop a pocket calculator.


It seems Sinclair were the first to launch a "slimline" pocket calculator, but the calculator bit of the electronics was bought off TI. Sinclair made a thinner housing and did something apparently clever with the power input.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 17, 2021)

Raheem said:


> It seems Sinclair were the first to launch a "slimline" pocket calculator, but the calculator bit of the electronics was bought off TI. Sinclair made a thinner housing and did something apparently clever with the power input.


But there were earlier pocket calculator models on the market. I am not disputing he improved it, but he did not invent the concept.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 17, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> But there were earlier pocket calculator models on the market. I am not disputing he improved it, but he did not invent the concept.


He or someone he employed invented the "slimline" pocket calculator. After that, I would guess someone invented the slimline pocket calculator with an little red "on" light. And so on.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 17, 2021)

Kraftwerk invented the pocket calculator


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 17, 2021)

Raheem said:


> He or someone he employed invented the "slimline" pocket calculator. After that, I would guess someone invented the slimline pocket calculator with an little red "on" light. And so on.


I manage inventions for a living. I am telling you, he did not invent the first pocket calculator.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 17, 2021)

Growing up we had a slightly battered TI-1025, with green LED display 😎


----------



## Raheem (Sep 17, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I manage inventions for a living. I am telling you, he did not invent the first pocket calculator.


I'm so tempted to tell you he did.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 17, 2021)

A 17th Century Chinese Abacus.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 17, 2021)

Whose calculator was the first one to be put in a pocket?


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 17, 2021)

Was he the first to realise one could type “5318008” into a calculator?


----------



## Philo (Sep 17, 2021)

My Morning Routine  by Shamima Begum


The first thing I do is to set my cellphone aside.  I put it on my bedside table immediately after I turn off my alarm, and I only take it when I am going out of the door in the morning.  An unplugged morning helps me start my day in a smooth way, and allows me to recenter my ideas, concentrate on myself, and focus on the present moment.

Then I use a diffuser, or scented candles.  I place a few scented candles or a pretty ultrasonic diffuser in my bathroom or on my dressing tables.  I light the candles and turn on the diffuser before starting my beauty ritual.  I opt for comforting and energizing smells, that I absolutely love.  This cheers me up, and also helps me wake up   completely.  It starts my day off on the right foot.

The next thing is a tongue cleanser!  Nobody leaves their home without brushing their teeth, however many go out the door without properly cleansing their tongue.  Yet, your tongue needs to be thoroughly cleansed!  Using a tongue cleanser also helps get rid of Toxins, according to Ayurveda.

I drink lemon infused water.  We all understand the importance of drinking water.  Start your day with a large glass of water, warm or cold, that contains a bit of lemon juice, apple cider vinegar, or even nothing at all!  This is an excellent way to make your body happy, right at the start of the day.  It helps with your digestion, and wakes up your metabolism!

I meditate for a few minutes.  I may start with 5, and gradually increase the time - or I may just stick to 5 minutes if I find that satisfies me.  I do a few breathing exercises, it makes me refreshed and ready to start a busy day.

To wake my body up in a gentle way and welcome the new day, I do a morning yoga session.  I adapt this to my preference, it may be a sun salutation, a YouTube video tutorial, inversions or various postures.   And I also do a few simple stretches.

I always have a healthy breakfast.  I love to start the day with a delicious smoothie. Whether it is green or not, it is always filled with delicious ingredients.  Sometimes I add protein, or some superfoods or just a simple and basic smoothie.  The combinations are endless, and this type of breakfast is perfect to have 'on the go'.

Movement is important.  I start with some type of physical activity.   This is perfect to rejuvenate myself, and boost my energy levels  I may go for a run or an HIIT workout ( a combination of brief high intensity cardio exercise followed by an equal period of rest).

My next activity is a great habit to add to a morning routine:  Dry brushing.  I brush my body before I hop in the shower, with the help of a brush made for this in repetitive movements always brushing towards my heart.  Dry brushing stimulates the lymphatic system, as well as exfoliating the skin.

I like to play some music.  Sometimes energizing beats, or perhaps softer music to gently wake up.  The fact remains that a Spotify morning playlist puts me in a good mood and motivates you to wake up.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 17, 2021)

I know this is appalling and inappropriate of me, but I can't help wishing the last line of that was



> And after that, I'm ready to head out for another day planning the violent destruction of the West and the return of the Caliphate, in sha'Allah.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 18, 2021)

Starmer ‘must win over soft Tory voters for election success’

The standfirst says: Study says it is vital for party to prioritise Conservative supporters open to voting Labour

Suggested alternative standfirst: Come on, let's just be reasonable about this and accept Tory rule in perpetuity


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2021)

> The analysis was drawn up by Opinium’s Chris Curtis for the Progressive Britain group, which sits on the right of the Labour party.


🤔


----------



## belboid (Sep 18, 2021)

Rejoice, rejoice









						Opinion writing has changed a lot since I started out. It’s time for something new | Hadley Freeman
					

It’s ironic that at a time when this job has never been more desirable to so many, there is such an expectation of conformity of opinion




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 18, 2021)

belboid said:


> Rejoice, rejoice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The integrity of a gun for hire


----------



## stavros (Sep 18, 2021)

From a Q&A with Karamo Brown (me neither).


----------



## killer b (Sep 18, 2021)

stavros said:


> (me neither).


It says in the intro to the piece that he's the presenter of 'Queer Eye', a popular television show m'lud.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 19, 2021)

Nicely dissected here:









						So long, farewell, we Hadley knew you: The real function of columns vs. what columnists pretend they're doing...
					

Hadley Freeman's valedictory Guardian Weekend column repeated many of modern column writing's foundational myths.




					brokenbottleboy.substack.com


----------



## stavros (Sep 19, 2021)

Twice in an article about how different cars are taxed they mention "road tax".


----------



## TopCat (Sep 19, 2021)

Philo said:


> My Morning Routine  by Shamima Begum
> 
> 
> The first thing I do is to set my cellphone aside.  I put it on my bedside table immediately after I turn off my alarm, and I only take it when I am going out of the door in the morning.  An unplugged morning helps me start my day in a smooth way, and allows me to recenter my ideas, concentrate on myself, and focus on the present moment.
> ...


Having it all.


----------



## deeyo (Sep 19, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Having it all.


except brain octane oil, a citizenship or any living children.


----------



## strung out (Sep 19, 2021)

Philo said:


> My Morning Routine  by Shamima Begum
> 
> 
> The first thing I do is to set my cellphone aside.  I put it on my bedside table immediately after I turn off my alarm, and I only take it when I am going out of the door in the morning.  An unplugged morning helps me start my day in a smooth way, and allows me to recenter my ideas, concentrate on myself, and focus on the present moment.
> ...


Why have you posted this fake bullshit?


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2021)

I wonder what the best thread for this article is. And if there isnt one, why not?









						Eat the rich! Why millennials and generation Z have turned their backs on capitalism
					

Nearly eight out of 10 of young Britons blame capitalism for the housing crisis and two-thirds want to live under a socialist economic system. How did that happen?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 21, 2021)

belboid said:


> Rejoice, rejoice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This piece is such dishonest trash. It starts with the idea that nobody wanted to be an opinion writer in 2000, when in reality thousands, nay tens of thousands of people, would have given anything to be paid well for the simple job of expressing barely-informed opinion. Who is her audience for that outright lie? So bizarre. Good riddance.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 21, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> This piece is such dishonest trash. It starts with the idea that nobody wanted to be an opinion writer in 2000, when in reality thousands, nay tens of thousands of people, would have given anything to be paid well for the simple job of expressing barely-informed opinion. Who is her audience for that outright lie? So bizarre. Good riddance.


Zoe Williams takes the fucking piss with her "opinions"








						The real reason dogs are better than cats | Zoe Williams
					

They are clever, versatile, pro-social – and tenacious in the extreme, writes Zoe Williams




					www.theguardian.com
				



Nice work if you can get it


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 21, 2021)

stavros said:


> View attachment 289065
> 
> From a Q&A with Karamo Brown (me neither).


Lifestyle section - a bit like goalhanging - lots of relevant and simple targets


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 21, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Zoe Williams takes the fucking piss with her "opinions"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well quite. Who wouldn't want to be paid a good wage to write about whatever you wake up thinking about that day? For anyone who feels comfortable writing it's got to be one of the cushiest gigs available. Hadley Freeman pretending she did it because no-one else wanted to (rather than because as a very privileged person someone asked her to do it and it was easy and ego-satisfying work) just makes me happy she won't be doing it any more. Just a shame she'll be continuing as a journalist, given her dishonesty or her terrible grasp of how the world works (both I think).


----------



## Sue (Sep 21, 2021)

I hate that Torsten Bell. Comes out with a couple of paras of something that says fuck all about anything and presumably gets paid for it. And it's never even vaguely bloody interesting. 









						What’s love got to do with it? Marrying for money might be on the way back | Torsten Bell
					

Ads reveal companionship has increasingly been a motivation but some may still opt for marriage as a rare route to wealth




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 21, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Zoe Williams takes the fucking piss with her "opinions"
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Jesus, what next - blue is better than yellow? Chestnuts are better than horse chestnuts? Who wastes their time reading this shit?


----------



## two sheds (Sep 21, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> Jesus, what next - blue is better than yellow? Chestnuts are better than horse chestnuts? Who wastes their time reading this shit?


Don't give them ideas


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 21, 2021)

Are we meant to feel sorry for the poor victims who spend their lives writing guardian opinion pieces, press-ganged into the role at an early age by a friend of their family?


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Zoe Williams takes the fucking piss with her "opinions"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Williams does do some good pieces as well, so I'll let her off a bit. Not for that one, obviously, which I suspect she pulled from an old sock drawer cos she really couldn't be arsed that day.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 21, 2021)

belboid said:


> Williams does do some good pieces as well, so I'll let her off a bit.


Challenge: Link one


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Challenge: Link one


Have three!  They're not boldly radical socialist fury, but they're pretty decent.









						‘Wokeness’: the trumped-up charge that silenced the Labour party | Zoe Williams
					

Unlike the opposition, the right enjoy considerable freedom and agility on this terrain. They mapped it, after all, says Guardian columnist Zoe Williams




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Starmer says he’ll ‘sweat blood’ for votes – now he must look beyond his inner circle | Zoe Williams
					

The Labour leader needs ideas to flow in from everywhere – not just from the leader of the opposition’s office, says Guardian columnist Zoe Williams




					www.theguardian.com
				












						Aid cuts make a mockery of UK pledges on girls’ education | Zoe Williams
					

The government’s words at the global education summit are completely at odds with its behaviour




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 21, 2021)

Yeah, I think of ZW as the left end of left-liberal, rather than the usual (for guardian towers) liberal end of left-liberal. She does twitter chat with Novara Media folks and seems to identify as left wing more than other columnists there. Think she went anti-Corbyn quite quickly on the grounds of electability, but also wrote this review: Comrade Corbyn: A Very Unlikely Coup review – spiteful analysis with no grasp of leftwing politics


----------



## ska invita (Sep 21, 2021)

belboid said:


> Have three!  They're not boldly radical socialist fury, but they're pretty decent.



Her witterings about the internal struggles and positionings of Labour mean nothing when she supported Owen Smith to challenge Corbyn.


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 23, 2021)

Ring Video Doorbell 4 review: pre-roll is a battery bell gamechanger


----------



## TopCat (Sep 23, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> View attachment 289861
> 
> Ring Video Doorbell 4 review: pre-roll is a battery bell gamechanger


The plod love this and are always begging up footage.


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 23, 2021)

TopCat said:


> The plod love this and are always begging up footage.



Guardian gives it ⭐🌟🌟🌟out of five.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 23, 2021)

I know we're not meant to say anything positive about the guardian here but the headline for this is <chef's kiss> Johnny Depp says ‘no one safe’ from cancel culture as he accepts lifetime achievement award


----------



## Edie (Sep 23, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> I know we're not meant to say anything positive about the guardian here but the headline for this is <chef's kiss> Johnny Depp says ‘no one safe’ from cancel culture as he accepts lifetime achievement award


What a dangerous fragile ego that over entitled man has. He gives me the creeps. Wifebeater. But yeah, good headline.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 24, 2021)

The problem is bigger than Keir Starmer – Labour's centrists have run out of ideas | Andy Beckett
					

The leader’s long essay has a few bright notes, but it shows again that it’s his wing of the party that has failed to ‘modernise’, says the Guardian columnist Andy Beckett




					www.theguardian.com
				




The Guardian is starting to think that maybe Labour centrists have run out of ideas.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 24, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The problem is bigger than Keir Starmer – Labour's centrists have run out of ideas | Andy Beckett
> 
> 
> The leader’s long essay has a few bright notes, but it shows again that it’s his wing of the party that has failed to ‘modernise’, says the Guardian columnist Andy Beckett
> ...


Thats not The Guardian, thats Andy Beckett (slight difference)


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 24, 2021)

The irony of the Guardian castigating Apple for not paying taxes, yet accepts its advertising and reviews its products.


----------



## killer b (Sep 24, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> The irony of the Guardian castigating Apple for not paying taxes, yet accepts its advertising and reviews its products.


Should newspapers not accept advertising from any company they criticise? Maybe think through the possible issues with a policy like that for a company that relies on advertising for funding...


----------



## Cerv (Sep 24, 2021)

"we'll take your money and in exchange never run any critical story" is not a good look


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 24, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The problem is bigger than Keir Starmer – Labour's centrists have run out of ideas | Andy Beckett
> 
> 
> The leader’s long essay has a few bright notes, but it shows again that it’s his wing of the party that has failed to ‘modernise’, says the Guardian columnist Andy Beckett
> ...



It's not the only Starmer-ambivalent item on today's online frontpage. They're gearing up for that 'We think he's going about things all wrong but we urge you to support him. What? He lost? Well, we told you so' line they're so good at when elections come around.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 24, 2021)

killer b said:


> Should newspapers not accept advertising from any company they criticise? Maybe think through the possible issues with a policy like that for a company that relies on advertising for funding...


Depends whether they have principles, or in the case of the Guardian, not. (Whilst sitting on a billion quid cash pile.).


----------



## killer b (Sep 24, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> Depends whether they have principles, or in the case of the Guardian, not. (Whilst sitting on a billion quid cash pile.).


Which newspapers have the kind of principles that makes them turn down advertising from companies they've criticised in their news pages? I can think of a few who've turned down reporters from doing critical stories about companies which advertise with them, but the other way round?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 24, 2021)

killer b said:


> Which newspapers have the kind of principles that makes them turn down advertising from companies they've criticised in their news pages? I can think of a few who've turned down reporters from doing critical stories about companies which advertise with them, but the other way round?


----------



## killer b (Sep 24, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


>


I don't know what this means.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 25, 2021)

killer b said:


> I don't know what this means.



It means 'Hmmmmmmmmm'.


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> It means 'Hmmmmmmmmm'.


sure, but I don't know what that means as a reply to that post?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 25, 2021)

killer b said:


> sure, but I don't know what that means as a reply to that post?



It means that I have read and understood what you have written, but may not be fully in agreement with what you have written. If you like, it is the halfway house between 'yes' and 'no'.


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> It means that I have read and understood what you have written, but may not be fully in agreement with what you have written. If you like, it is the halfway house between 'yes' and 'no'.


tell me what you disagree with.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 25, 2021)

It would take more typing than my lazy arse is prepared to do.

I will paraphrase it thus:

The press are prostitutes, completely amoral, happy to take anyone's money.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 25, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> It would take more typing than my lazy arse is prepared to do.
> 
> I will paraphrase it thus:
> 
> The press are prostitutes, completely amoral, happy to take anyone's money.


That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation.


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2021)

it's not true at all - large sections of the press are actively immoral.


----------



## Yossarian (Sep 25, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> The press are prostitutes, completely amoral, happy to take anyone's money.



Does that apply to all media that accepts advertising or just outlets that share opinions?

Presumably you don't go around grumbling about bus shelters being harlots that will take ads from anyone with the money.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 25, 2021)

that Armando Iannucci poem. i can’t even bring myself to post the link


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> Does that apply to all media that accepts advertising or just outlets that share opinions?
> 
> Presumably you don't go around grumbling about bus shelters being harlots that will take ads from anyone with the money.


Viz did a strip about sas


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 25, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> Does that apply to all media that accepts advertising or just outlets that share opinions?
> 
> Presumably you don't go around grumbling about bus shelters being harlots that will take ads from anyone with the money.



Now that I've thought about it...   

There is a reason why the public's 'loath list' includes, lawyers, journalists, estate agents etc.


----------



## stavros (Sep 25, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> It would take more typing than my lazy arse is prepared to do.


Fingers are more efficient.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> The press are prostitutes, completely amoral, happy to take anyone's money.


So are cadbury's and fry's who care not a jot who slaps down coins at a shop counter to purchase a creme egg or chocolate orange.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> Now that I've thought about it...
> 
> There is a reason why the public's 'loath list' includes, lawyers, journalists, estate agents etc.


You cannot hope to bribe or twist -
Thank God! - the British journalist:
But seeing what they'll do
Unbribed there's no occasion to.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 26, 2021)

"Left opposes plan to fight anti-Semitism"
Observer digging new depths

"Writing for the _Observer_ Marie van der Zyl, the president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews,...."


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 26, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> So are cadbury's and fry's who care not a jot who slaps down coins at a shop counter to purchase a creme egg or chocolate orange.



And Cadbury's are ignoring calls to remove palm oil from non-sustainable sources from their products. Guardian columnists are arseholes alright, but at least probably not many of them have killed an orangutan.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 26, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> And Cadbury's are ignoring calls to remove palm oil from non-sustainable sources from their products. Guardian columnists are arseholes alright, but at least probably not many of them have killed an orangutan.



As the world population grows, and the un-raped productive land doesn't, at some point there needs to be a global decision on sustainable production of everything.

I'm not an eco-warrior, but do read about what is happening, and switch to 'cleaner' products when I can.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 26, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> As the world population grows, and the un-raped productive land doesn't, at some point there needs to be a global decision on sustainable production of everything.


Won't happen, though, will it? We'll carry on as we are, until the destruction caused by doing so results in the deaths of enough poor people that the proportion of exploitable land becomes sufficient again for the population. Although sadly those that are left will mostly be the useless overpaid dross, like Golgafrinchan Ark Ship B in the _Hitchhiker's Guide_, and we'll be lucky if they can successfully grow any food - although they will be qualified to put together a smashing branding campaign for it if they do.

And that's the best-case scenario


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 27, 2021)

Pay us a fair share for all the ‘likes’ we earn, demand influencers
					

A former model has launched a website to help online creatives compare deals with brands to prevent exploitation




					www.theguardian.com
				




Get a proper fucking job, demands everyone else.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 27, 2021)

ska invita said:


> View attachment 290230
> 
> "Left opposes plan to fight anti-Semitism"
> Observer digging new depths
> ...



Fuck me that's rank


----------



## two sheds (Sep 27, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Pay us a fair share for all the ‘likes’ we earn, demand influencers
> 
> 
> A former model has launched a website to help online creatives compare deals with brands to prevent exploitation
> ...


Steady on, we should be putting pressure on editor for a similar deal here.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 27, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Steady on, we should be putting pressure on editor for a similar deal here.


You mean you don't already have a deal?

(((((Shedsy)))))


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 27, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> You mean you don't already have a deal?
> 
> (((((Shedsy)))))


Don't worry, I'm sure some of that sweet, sweet influencer lucre will trickle down to you Tier 3 guys sometime soon


----------



## Sue (Sep 27, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> You mean you don't already have a deal?
> 
> (((((Shedsy)))))


I heard Pickman's model is raking it in as an influencer. And when you add in his Pingu franchise and sponsorship from the South Georgia Tourist Board, he must be worth a fortune.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 27, 2021)

Toynbee achieving new heights of pathological self delusion. Starmer's train wreck of a  conference is him actually him  "getting a grip of a revitalised party" 

As Boris Johnson loses control, Keir Starmer is starting to get a grip | Polly Toynbee


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 28, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> Toynbee achieving new heights of pathological self delusion. Starmer's train wreck of a  conference is him actually him  "getting a grip of a revitalised party"
> 
> As Boris Johnson loses control, Keir Starmer is starting to get a grip | Polly Toynbee



Starting to get a grip on all nine people who are still in his party.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 28, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> Toynbee achieving new heights of pathological self delusion. Starmer's train wreck of a  conference is him actually him  "getting a grip of a revitalised party"
> 
> As Boris Johnson loses control, Keir Starmer is starting to get a grip | Polly Toynbee


Saw that last night and couldn't even summon up the energy to post it. I don't think the party's ever looked less plausible than this in my lifetime   Which conference was she even at?


----------



## hitmouse (Sep 28, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> "getting a grip of a revitalised party"


There's one for the next Profanisaurus - "Keith, are you ready to come out? It's time for your big speech." "Nearly, I'm just getting a grip on my revitalised party first."


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> Toynbee achieving new heights of pathological self delusion. Starmer's train wreck of a  conference is him actually him  "getting a grip of a revitalised party"
> 
> As Boris Johnson loses control, Keir Starmer is starting to get a grip | Polly Toynbee


In journalism as in comedy timing is everything and what's supposed to be a serious piece takes on a new hilarious guise due to la Toynbee's publication date


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 29, 2021)

Angela Rayner angered by Andy McDonald's resignation

'Liberal' Guardian quite happy to reinforce the misogynist and classist gobby northern lass stereotype if it helps them make the Labour left look even a tiny bit more crap.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 29, 2021)

Labour members on Tuesday backed a £15-an-hour minimum wage at their annual party conference in Brighton. Although the vote was not binding and the policy is unlikely to be adopted by Keir Starmer, it has kicked off a debate over whether the legal pay floor should rise or whether an increase would drive up unemployment as the economy emerges from the coronavirus pandemic. Who suggested the figure is not clear but it does echo the “fight for $15” campaign of US activists, a sum that McDonald’s workers in Britain have said should be paid in sterling. Their campaign, backed by the Bakers, Food and Allied Workers Union, *was touted on a banner that Starmer was pictured standing near two years ago.  : D*

Standing near - #SoStamer

- the Guardian Analysis piece in general is pouring cold water on a rise in minimum wage, generallly suggesting if everyone made £15 an hour they'd be too weatlhy
its an amazing piece


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 1, 2021)

Look how far down you have to scroll to find mention of the 'predatory' murder of Sabina Nessa.

The first four articles at the top of the page are on Sarah Everard's murder, as is the lead Guardian View piece.

I know one case was concluded while the other is ongoing, and the role of a serving police officer justifiably makes the Everard case stand out. But I can't help thinking those aren't the only factors in the disparity...


----------



## Sue (Oct 1, 2021)

Turns out I was doing monoclo (aka wearing only black all the time) decades before it was a thing. 









						Bored of your wardrobe? Try wearing one colour at a time
					

Dress in ‘monoclo’, says artist Pascal Anson, and you’ll rethink your relationship with clothes for ever. Jess Cartner-Morley gives it a go




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 1, 2021)

Sue said:


> Turns out I was doing monoclo (aka wearing only black all the time) decades before it was a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the puritans got there before you


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 1, 2021)

Sue said:


> Turns out I was doing monoclo (aka wearing only black all the time) decades before it was a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...








puritans punishing people who wore grey


----------



## Sue (Oct 1, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> the puritans got there before you


Did they not do white collars and stuff..?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 1, 2021)

Sue said:


> Did they not do white collars and stuff..?


only on special days, to emphasise the blackness of the remainder of their attire


----------



## Sue (Oct 1, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> puritans punishing people who wore grey


Monoclo = single colour only so the grey would've been okay. The white bits OTOH...


----------



## Sue (Oct 1, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> only on special days, to emphasise the blackness of the remainder of their attire


Pah, special days indeed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 1, 2021)

Sue said:


> Monoclo = single colour only so the grey would've been okay. The white bits OTOH...


ah but the people in the pillory are wearing grey _and black_, which is of course beyond the pale


----------



## Sue (Oct 1, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> ah but the people in the pillory are wearing grey _and black_, which is of course beyond the pale


Yes, that's a fair point. Pillorying is too good for them. 

(Just looking at my washed-out 'black' t shirt... )


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 1, 2021)

Sue said:


> Turns out I was doing monoclo (aka wearing only black all the time) decades before it was a thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


David Icke is also an adherent, a fully turquoise trendsetter.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 1, 2021)

the existence of monochrome clothing distresses me
i can probably do 400 words a week about it.
can i have a column? i think my dad went to school with the editor


----------



## Santino (Oct 1, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> the existence of monochrome clothing distresses me
> i can probably do 400 words a week about it.
> can i have a column? i think my dad went to school with the editor


Max?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 2, 2021)

Santino said:


> Max?


Maxine








						‘Sun-powered orgasms are fantastic’: why I went to live in a desert cave
					

Armed with only a solar charger, a vibrator and some marijuana gummy bears, I rode out the pandemic – and my fear of spiders – in a California commune




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## stavros (Oct 5, 2021)

What price democracy indeed:


----------



## Cerv (Oct 8, 2021)

the subs have clocked off early for a Friday pub lunch.









						Gove looks at cutting insurance costs to tackle building safety crisis
					

Housing secretary may also push developers to pay for repairs in signs of renewed push to fix problem




					www.theguardian.com
				





> and his insurance premium has almost tripled from £300 a year to £1,100. He gave Gove’s initiative a cautious welcome.


I'd check their arithmetic there









						TfL granted injunction against Insulate Britain protesters after arrests
					

Civil banning order applies to 14 locations around London after police arrest 35 climate activists




					www.theguardian.com
				





> According to the climate activist group, about 40 supporters blocked junction 25 of the M25 just before 8.30am on Friday, in defiance of an injunction obtained by National Highways, as well as the A501 at the Old Street roundabout in Islington.


hasn't been a roundabout there over a year now.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 14, 2021)

Twats who bought a house and left it derelict for five years complain about the tax that's been levied to deter landlords from leaving properties empty








						We feel penalised by 200% council tax increase on our derelict cottage
					

Our property has been empty for more than five years, now we are facing a bill of £725 a month




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Twats who bought a house and left it derelict for five years complain about the tax that's been levied to deter landlords from leaving properties empty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it's been left empty for five years and then changed hands if you read the piece - you did read it, I hope


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Twats who bought a house and left it derelict for five years complain about the tax that's been levied to deter landlords from leaving properties empty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think they have just bought it?


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2021)

I’m less trusting, they say ‘it has been left empty…’ not it had.   There’s nothing to indicate either way when they bought it.  

Either way, tough shit and they should have known the law anyway.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 14, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> it's been left empty for five years and then changed hands if you read the piece - you did read it, I hope


That’s not how I read it. They are careful to say it has been left empty for five years without indicating who left it empty. Either way, I have no sympathy


----------



## Carvaged (Oct 14, 2021)

Says they'll halve the poll tax if the owners actually tell the council they're renovating and planning to move in. I'm still erring on the side that they're probably second/third/fourth home buyers though, looking for a nice little ruin down in Cornwall. Certainly looks in better nick than my place fwiw


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 14, 2021)

Carvaged said:


> Says they'll halve the poll tax if the owners actually tell the council they're renovating and planning to move in. I'm still erring on the side that they're probably second/third/fourth home buyers though, looking for a nice little ruin down in Cornwall. Certainly looks in better nick than my place fwiw


Don’t think the picture is of the actual property


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 14, 2021)

Carvaged said:


> Says they'll halve the poll tax if the owners actually tell the council they're renovating and planning to move in. I'm still erring on the side that they're probably second/third/fourth home buyers though, looking for a nice little ruin down in Cornwall. Certainly looks in better nick than my place fwiw


You’d have thought they’d have discovered this themselves. They’ve probably bought a few properties and haven’t been attentive to the paperwork


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2021)

I don't think there's any need to make up things to be cross at - they don't print every word of the letters they receive in these advice columns, only enough to outline the problem to the readers. The advice is to someone who's recently bought a ruin, so you can assume that's the case here. There certainly isn't enough information for you to assume the opposite.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 14, 2021)

Anyway, I think we can agree the Guardian is as usual doing a fine job of focusing on the needs of home owners.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 14, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> Anyway, I think we can agree the Guardian is as usual doing a fine job of focusing on the needs of home owners.


Quite, shut up nickpickers!


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 14, 2021)

Know someone in a not too dissimilar  situation. They bought a bungalow (not in Cornwall though) planning to completely do it up and then move into it selling their original house and retiring. Because the house was unoccupied and being renovated, they got  a 50% discount on the council tax on it for 1 or 2 years whilst they did it. Alas for them the lurgy derailed their renovation plans somewhat and it's now classed as empty so they're paying a mortgage and double council tax on a house that they're not living in.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 14, 2021)

The trick is to "demolish" it and then it's no longer taxable until it becomes a "new build".


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 14, 2021)

£100 says this is a problem submitted by a Guardian leader writer


----------



## hash tag (Oct 15, 2021)

There are much worse things to get upset about. Has no one picked up the Guardian on a Saturday lately. They have combined several bits, cur back on others, revamped the guide.
It is a very rapid downhill decline.


----------



## killer b (Oct 15, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Has no one picked up the Guardian on a Saturday lately.


no, nobody has, hence the consolidation of the supplements. physical newspapers are basically dead.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 15, 2021)

hash tag said:


> There are much worse things to get upset about. Has no one picked up the Guardian on a Saturday lately. They have combined several bits, cur back on others, revamped the guide.
> It is a very rapid downhill decline.


It looks very like the Irish Times saturday magazine, which Mrs. Idris routinely derides as "the Jackie Mag"


----------



## Carvaged (Oct 15, 2021)

"The Graun is the worst paper, apart from all the others"

_Winston Churchill_


----------



## Spandex (Oct 17, 2021)

Observer rather than Guardian, but whatever. This is the front page today:







"We must end the hatred aimed at our MPs" they say, then they go and illustrate it with that picture.

I hate both of those fuckers with a burning passion and I feel totally justified in doing so.

Johnson has drifted through his privileged life leaving tens of thousands dead, leading a government of corruption without a care or consequence.

Starmer lied to become the leader of his party and is now working hard to destroy Labour by turning it into the Lib Dems.

What am I supposed to feel looking at them? Respect? Deference? Awe?

Fuck them. I'm fine hating those cunts.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 17, 2021)

What did Starmer lie about, Spandex ? 
Have never paid much attention to what he’s said about anything


----------



## Spandex (Oct 17, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What did Starmer lie about, Spandex ?
> Have never paid much attention to what he’s said about anything


The basis of his leadership campaign was 10 pledges, including common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; strengthening workers rights and trade unions; and providing “forensic” opposition to the government. He has arguably broken all of them already, depending on what it is that focus groups tell him to believe today, and has said he is willing to break them all if it makes him "electable".

Fucking prick.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 17, 2021)

Yeah I'm sure we'll get much better MPs if we hate and stab the existing ones enough.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 17, 2021)

Spandex said:


> The basis of his leadership campaign was 10 pledges, including common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water; strengthening workers rights and trade unions; and providing “forensic” opposition to the government. He has arguably broken all of them already, depending on what it is that focus groups tell him to believe today, and has said he is willing to break them all if it makes him "electable".
> 
> Fucking prick.



plus saying he was going to unify the party, which he clearly knew at the time was a lie

eta: although I suppose he is doing in a way by expelling the left wing


----------



## Carvaged (Oct 17, 2021)

Many people willing voted for the Starmer lies and delusions though. I remember twattering about it at the time of the leadership election, and people who were stridently pro-Corbypoos told me in no uncertain terms that the great kneeling-before-the-Queen knighted Dowager Lord Sir Starmer Esq. hadn't really been captured by the elite and was a socialist in champagne clothes.

The sad realpolitick reality is Labour would never exist as a single party under any more proportional system, and a few socialist crumbs delivered by a Blairite is probably the best the hardworking majority will ever get.


----------



## rekil (Oct 17, 2021)

.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 17, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Yeah I'm sure we'll get much better MPs if we hate and stab the existing ones enough.



This reminds me of a line from the film _Still Crazy_, about a washed-up rock band trying to reform long after the death of their most talented members.

Singer: It's not cos they're great, it's cos they're dead! Maybe if I was dead I'd get some respect around here!
Bassist: It would be a start.

E2a, for the tape: Joking. Stabbing MPs won't help. Please don't


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 18, 2021)

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/christmas-2021.374252/page-22#post-17359513


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 18, 2021)

That Chanel one is over £600.. Unbelievable.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 18, 2021)

The Guardian had an article a couple of years ago concerning a couple who had both lost their jobs. One wanted to continue spending hundreds a month on their beauty regime at the expense of household food etc. The Grad was yeah you deserve it.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2021)

Meditation, vodka and vinegar: can the morning routines of the rich and famous make me a better person?

No.

Next!


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2021)

Today's CROSSword, 16 down 😡


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Today's CROSSword, 16 down 😡


The quick one or the hard one?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 20, 2021)

How many letters?


----------



## gosub (Oct 20, 2021)

only the quick has a 16 down. kindle


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2021)

It was a very quick one today.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2021)

I really couldnt get into it today, but mentioning that pile of scum


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I really couldnt get into it today, but mentioning that pile of scum


it's a fecking crossword, you twerp.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> it's a fecking crossword, you twerp.


And? It's still using the name and raising awareness, maybe even adding credibility.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2021)

hash tag said:


> And? It's still using the name and raising awareness, maybe even adding credibility.


You divclart. There are many words in the English that are ‘bad’ but that doesn’t make them unusable in a crossword


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

Grauniad irony in the _What's on TV tonight _section:


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> You divclart. There are many words in the English that are ‘bad’ but that doesn’t make them unusable in a crossword



If you say so. Amazon and Kindle are synonymous in my "book".


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 21, 2021)

hash tag said:


> If you say so. Amazon and Kindle are synonymous in my "book".


So? Would you be dismayed by a clue like ‘nickname of Peter Sutcliffe?’


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 23, 2021)

‘We don’t need to buy more stuff’: the people who kit out their home for free
					

Many people turning to skips or sites such as Freecycle in a bid to save money and help the planet




					www.theguardian.com
				




Middle class people (doctors, company directors) whose hobby is furnishing their house(s - I’m assuming a few of these people will have second homes as it’s the Lifestyle section) for free. 

All very noble from a sustainability perspective but perhaps the Guardian could have remembered that for many people furnishing your home for nowt isn’t a lifestyle choice, it’s a necessity.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> ‘We don’t need to buy more stuff’: the people who kit out their home for free
> 
> 
> Many people turning to skips or sites such as Freecycle in a bid to save money and help the planet
> ...


From the writer's "About Me":


> Like most of London, I packed my bags and headed to Margate for a life of sunsets, beach swims, and glasses of wine that don’t cost £9.


Another DFL that'll find out what Margate's really like in Winter.


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I really couldnt get into it today, but mentioning that pile of scum



You can get a kindle for 40 quid. An accessible affordable tablet + eReader. This doesn't make Amazon nice of course but maybe it's another reason why they're popular.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 23, 2021)

xenon said:


> You can get a kindle for 40 quid. An accessible affordable tablet + eReader. This doesn't make Amazon nice of course but maybe it's another reason why they're popular.


I fully get they are popular because they are cheap. There is a reason why they are cheap and as a consequence, I don't want anything to do with those tax avoiding slavers.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 23, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I fully get they are popular because they are cheap. There is a reason why they are cheap and as a consequence, I don't want anything to do with those tax avoiding slavers.


That reminds me to get a load of book torrents today.


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I fully get they are popular because they are cheap. There is a reason why they are cheap and as a consequence, I don't want anything to do with those tax avoiding slavers.



What device are you posting from BTW? Apple are not cheap and yet FoxCon etc.Same with Samsung and well, you get the point.

I'm not quibbling your personal boicot of Amazon. Just the sneary superior way you seem to talk about it TBH.


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2021)

TopCat said:


> That reminds me to get a load of book torrents today.



Yeah. Fuck authors eh.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 23, 2021)

xenon said:


> What device are you posting from BTW? Apple are not cheap and yet FoxCon etc.Same with Samsung and well, you get the point.
> 
> I'm not quibbling your personal boicot of Amazon. Just the sneary superior way you seem to talk about it TBH.


Not apple or Samsung, but still a reasonably ethical brand in Nokia. I know it's not perfect, but it's not the worst. Mrs Tag went the full monty with a farephone.


----------



## iona (Oct 23, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Mrs Tag went the full monty with a farephone.


Is hers a bit shonky too or did I just get a dodgy one?


----------



## hash tag (Oct 24, 2021)

iona said:


> Is hers a bit shonky too or did I just get a dodgy one?


It's fine that I know. It's a farefone 3 I think. She's had for a year or more now.


----------



## Sue (Oct 24, 2021)

Mummy’s older than we thought: new find could rewrite history
					

Discovery of nobleman Khuwy shows that Egyptians were using advanced embalming methods 1,000 years before assumed date




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 25, 2021)

It's Boris Johnson's path or Rishi Sunak's way: the Tories can't have both

It's the standfirst, which in fairness isn't fully backed up by the article itself, which really bothers me here. 'Interventionist prime minister'? That's uncritically taking Johnson's cynical self-mythologising about 'getting [anything] done' at the most superficial face value imaginable...


----------



## hash tag (Oct 25, 2021)

Today's front page is dominated by some blokes kicking a ball around. It was bloody funny though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 25, 2021)

What’s funny about it?


----------



## stdP (Oct 25, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What’s funny about it?



I'm not much in to football but the dude in white is clearly pointing at the hilarious news item about coronavirus surges in maternity wards that are unable to cope. Oh my aching sides, can I please see a doctor?


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 25, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What’s funny about it?


Nothing


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 25, 2021)

I suppose it is the Manchester Guardian so at least slightly relevant


----------



## hash tag (Oct 25, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What’s funny about it?


Try asking someone from Liverpool or anyone who has a remote interest in the beautiful game.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 25, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Try asking someone from Liverpool or anyone who has a remote interest in the beautiful game.


don't think i'll bother as i doubt i'd understand it


----------



## Santino (Oct 25, 2021)

I don't know much about football but I do know it is very very good when Manchester United lose.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 25, 2021)

Santino said:


> I don't know much about football but I do know it is very very good when Manchester United lose.


Tell me you're not bitter.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Oct 25, 2021)

Would never have seen a result like that back in my day - and at Old Trafford too!


----------



## stdP (Oct 25, 2021)

I'm not sure whether this belongs here on in "thanks, Brexiteers!" but... an op-ed on the ToryScum threatening to override the rule of law now that we've taken back control by some dude called David Davis:









						Be warned: this government is robbing you of your right to challenge the state | David Davis
					

The bill designed to prevent government actions being reconsidered in the courts is un-conservative and undemocratic, says the Conservative MP David Davis




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 25, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> Would never have seen a result like that back in my day - and at Old Trafford too!


Oh, I dunno. That season we got relegated to division 2 had its moments. Mind you, that division 2 season was the best ever at Old Trafford


----------



## Santino (Oct 25, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Tell me you're not bitter.


I don't know if you're joking, I simply know that Manchester United are bad.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 26, 2021)

In 7th place, won 4, lost 3, drawn 2... and the media and ABUs cream in their kecks and call for Solskjaer's head 

A couple of bad games. We'll be reet, unless the Glazer scum give him the chop.


----------



## gosub (Oct 26, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Today's front page is dominated by some blokes kicking a ball around. It was bloody funny though.
> View attachment 294167


As that's Monday's paper and the Budget is a Tuesday thing, Headline should be 'Chancellor's misconduct in  public office.'


carries upto life imprisionment dontcha know, and leaking budget details is most definitely covered


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 26, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What’s funny about it?



Well Man Utd are a massive corporation with an enormous 'plastic' fanbase and dodgy American owners, who were incredibly successful in the 90s and 2000s so it's funny when they lose, whereas Liverpool are exactly the same but were successful in the 70s and 80s so it's different. Make sense?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 26, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Well Man Utd are a massive corporation with an enormous 'plastic' fanbase and dodgy American owners, who were incredibly successful in the 90s and 2000s so it's funny when they lose, whereas Liverpool are exactly the same but were successful in the 70s and 80s so it's different. Make sense?


  Nope!


----------



## hash tag (Oct 26, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Well Man Utd are a massive corporation with an enormous 'plastic' fanbase and dodgy American owners, who were incredibly successful in the 90s and 2000s so it's funny when they lose, whereas Liverpool are exactly the same but were successful in the 70s and 80s so it's different. Make sense?


That's the tip of the ice berg. Supported by glory hunters who won't support their local team. Were beaten at home by their great rivals...not just beaten, but thrashed


----------



## strung out (Oct 26, 2021)

hash tag said:


> That's the tip of the ice berg. Supported by glory hunters who won't support their local team. Were beaten at home by their great rivals...not just beaten, but thrashed


Nobody gives a shit outside of Liverpool fans and weirdos.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 26, 2021)

Or Citeh fans 

ETA I suppose they could be included with the weirdos.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 26, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Supported by glory hunters who won't support their local team.



Sorry is this Man U or Liverpool here?


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 26, 2021)

United, not U... please


----------



## hash tag (Oct 26, 2021)

strung out said:


> Nobody gives a shit outside of Liverpool fans and weirdos.


It was the talk of the day in work yesterday, even by non football people.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2021)

from the daily british colonist, victoria, bc, 20/11/1877

if you like hunting politicians that is


----------



## stavros (Oct 26, 2021)

Last weekend's "Saturday" magazine had over twenty pages of very worthy pre-COP climate change coverage.

Preceding it was a double page spread advertising some kind of car.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 26, 2021)

stavros said:


> Last weekend's "Saturday" magazine had over twenty pages of very worthy pre-COP climate change coverage.
> 
> Preceding it was a double page spread advertising some kind of car.


They've been doing that for years. They've always defended it on the grounds that taking the dirty money enables them to increase their climate change coverage. Leaves a pretty bad taste in the mouth.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 26, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> United, not U... please


I believe the correct term is actually ‘Man Ure’


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 26, 2021)

Hyuk hyuk


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 26, 2021)

hash tag said:


> It was the talk of the day in work yesterday, even by non football people.


United got beat. Media goes menckle so even non football people are talking! My my.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 26, 2021)

You seem to have misspelt “thrashed”


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> It was the talk of the day in work yesterday, even by non football people.


Not here. No one talks about football or politics


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> That's the tip of the ice berg. Supported by glory hunters who won't support their local team. Were beaten at home by their great rivals...not just beaten, but thrashed


I know a Spurs fan who talks about ‘glory hunters’ but surely winning things is the idea?


----------



## gosub (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Not here. No one talks about football or politics


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

gosub said:


>



not quite, it's all reality tv and other people's business instead


----------



## hash tag (Oct 27, 2021)

A glory hunter could be described as a person who supports a team simply because they are successful as opposed to their local team or a team they have ties with.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> A glory hunter could be described as a person who supports a team simply because they are successful as opposed to their local team or a team they have ties with.


Yeh no one can describe man u fans as glory hunters now


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2021)

What is happening here?


----------



## strung out (Oct 27, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> What is happening here?


Pretty sure it's not the Liverpool fans talking anymore, so it must be the weirdos.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 27, 2021)

Definitely weirdos.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

Perhaps we've found the nadir

In this article about tarot When the mystical goes mainstream: how tarot became a self-care phenomenon which is imo poor enough is this picture which as you see in the caption is at best tangential to the topic


----------



## two sheds (Oct 27, 2021)

strung out said:


> Pretty sure it's not the Liverpool fans talking anymore, so it must be the weirdos.


not sure those two are mutually exclusive


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2021)

They've 'corrected' this now. It was fine as it was.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> A glory hunter could be described as a person who supports a team simply because they are successful as opposed to their local team or a team they have ties with.


Why sound you support a team that always loses though? Makes sense to support a team that has a better chance. Premiere League football is international now, so no need to stick to a local team.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Why sound you support a team that always loses though? Makes sense to support a team that has a better chance. Premiere League football is international now, so no need to stick to a local team.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Why sound you support a team that always loses though? Makes sense to support a team that has a better chance. Premiere League football is international now, so no need to stick to a local team.


I was born near the team I support and it was the first team that I ever saw play. Some things just can't be changed. Just ask a Yorkshire cricket supporter.


----------



## killer b (Oct 27, 2021)

You can't change which football team you were born closest to, but you can choose to support another team if you like - why wouldn't you be able to?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

I was born in Leeds and their fans are awful.
And I don’t like their colours


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Why sound you support a team that always loses though? Makes sense to support a team that has a better chance. Premiere League football is international now, so no need to stick to a local team.


I wouldn't say I support cowdenbeath but I certainly have a soft spot for them because of, not despite, their lamentable performances - some seasons back they let more than a hundred goals in


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> I was born near the team I support and it was the first team that I ever saw play. Some things just can't be changed. Just ask a Yorkshire cricket supporter.


Cricket's not a sport, it's just lolling about with a bat and ball.

Can I also say, If I'd happened to have grown up in Leeds, I'd never have supported the dirty bleeders


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Why sound you support a team that always loses though? Makes sense to support a team that has a better chance. Premiere League football is international now, so no need to stick to a local team.


I stopped supporting Liverpool to switch to Tranmere (cos they were my local team, I just didn't know they existed when I was asked if I wanted to support Liverpool or Everton). It was not a wise move in terms of trophies I've seen _my _team win.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 27, 2021)

killer b said:


> You can't change which football team you were born closest to, but you can choose to support another team if you like - why wouldn't you be able to?


Why would you?


Orang Utan said:


> I was born in Leeds and their fans are awful.
> And I don’t like their colours


Agree about their fans. Back in the day, the hooligans from Leeds were as bad as they come.


----------



## killer b (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Why would you?


because it's weird tribalism? because you don't like the fan culture of your local team? because they're fucking terrible and you want to watch the sport played at a high level? there's as many different reasons not to bother with your local team as there are people who don't bother with their local team, and all of them are at least as valid as 'it's the nearest team to where I was born'


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> What is happening here?



No seriously, wtf is happening here? Random 2-plus-page aside about football. Why? This thread's meant to be about shitting on the Guardian.


----------



## Santino (Oct 27, 2021)

I think you can 'adopt' a new football team but you can't do so completely arbitrarily. The best way is to be friends with an existing fan and they can sort of pass on the required emotional attachment. But ideally it isn't something you go looking for.


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> I wouldn't say I support cowdenbeath but I certainly have a soft spot for them because of, not despite, their lamentable performances - some seasons back they let more than a hundred goals in


I can't recommend this tome enough for those who want to read all about that miserable season (1992/93) and the place of Cowdenbeath FC in the town. One of the best books ever about lower league football.





Cowdenbeath once again are a gubbins outfit this season, propping up the league table, and just ejected from the Scottish Cup by a non-league team, resulting in shouty psychopath boss Gary "Bobo" Bollan being given his jotters by the long-suffering board.

A new manager'll likely improve matters. They've had worse squads in recent memory.







 .


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> I can't recommend this tome enough for those who want to read all about that miserable season (1992/93) and the place of Cowdenbeath FC in the town. One of the best books ever about lower league football.
> 
> View attachment 294395
> 
> ...


is it that long ago


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

Yes, that's the last time they racked up a century in the "goals against" column. They conceded 109 that season, not quite eclipsing the quite epically dreadul effort in 1959-60, when a rearguard made entirely of cottage cheese and worn dubbin let through 124 goals as the club finished "the strongest club in Scottish football", bottom of the old second division.

At least in 92/93 internal club politics meant that a pish squad of wee boys sitting their highers and wayward mavericks, managed by a clueless balloon, were out of their depth in the middle tier rather than the bottom league.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> Yes, that's the last time they racked up a century in the "goals against" column. They conceded 109 that season, not quite eclipsing the quite epically dreadul effort in 1959-60, when a rearguard made entirely of cottage cheese and worn dubbin let through 124 goals as the club finished "the strongest club in Scottish football", bottom of the old second division.
> 
> At least in 92/93 internal club politics meant that a pish squad of wee boys sitting their highers and wayward mavericks, managed by a clueless balloon, were out of their depth in the middle tier rather than the bottom league.


cheers for the book recommendation  i'll have to get that


----------



## two sheds (Oct 27, 2021)

What do you mean not related to the Guardian? This is one of the top all time tackle videos.

https ://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2017/oct/30/cowdenbeath-head-first-tackle-penalty-berwick-rangers-scotland-video

wtf keeps not showing up - try this with deleting space after https


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

two sheds said:


> What do you mean not related to the Guardian? This is one of the top all time tackle videos.


no it isn't


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

"Bobo" Bollan was at the centre of Berwick Rangers' social media "manager" being sacked a couple of years back. The man tweeted that Bollan had invited the Beriwck manager to _"away n take yir face fir a shite"_, which garnered thousands of likes, but also his jotters on Monday morning from the puritanical Shielfield board.


----------



## Sue (Oct 27, 2021)

'At the time Dore was in her early 20s, a poet with a communications degree working as a publicist at a publisher of self-help and psychology textbooks. She had been struck by how the research she encountered through her job could help people to gain new insight into their thoughts, feelings and behaviours – if only they knew to seek it out.

Tarot, she thought, could be a similar conduit to awareness and introspection. These two strands – barriers to self-help, and tarot as a path to it – travelled together in Dore’s mind, culminating in a “strange and unlikely marriage”: she became a licensed social worker and full-time tarot reader.'

...

'Tarot is among a range of mystic practices to have seen a mainstream resurgence in recent years. Most obvious is astrology, now almost adjacent to psychoanalysis in our shared lexicon – but there’s also psychics, reincarnation, supportive spiritual energies (such as with manifesting), and even witchcraft.'









						When the mystical goes mainstream: how tarot became a self-care phenomenon
					

Tarot used to be seen as the domain of the credulous. It’s now seen as a means of coping with the present, thanks to psychology-minded practitioners like Jessica Dore




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

killer b said:


> because it's weird tribalism? because you don't like the fan culture of your local team? because they're fucking terrible and you want to watch the sport played at a high level? there's as many different reasons not to bother with your local team as there are people who don't bother with their local team, and all of them are at least as valid as 'it's the nearest team to where I was born'


I had to defriend an Urbanite on FB once cos of this horrible tribalistic nonsense they were promulgating. It’s no wonder there’s so much violence on and off the pitch.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> No seriously, wtf is happening here? Random 2-plus-page aside about football. Why? This thread's meant to be about shitting on the Guardian.


It’s how conversations work- they drift from topic to topic


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

two sheds said:


> What do you mean not related to the Guardian? This is one of the top all time tackle videos.
> 
> https ://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2017/oct/30/cowdenbeath-head-first-tackle-penalty-berwick-rangers-scotland-video
> 
> wtf keeps not showing up - try this with deleting space after https


www.theguardian.com/football/video/2017/oct/30/cowdenbeath-head-first-tackle-penalty-berwick-rangers-scotland-video


----------



## Sue (Oct 27, 2021)

It feel like some of the folk on here have never met a football fan.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Why would you?
> 
> Agree about their fans. Back in the day, the hooligans from Leeds were as bad as they come.


All fans are like this IME (at least en masse). All that drunken chanting on trains. They don’t seem to realise how frightening they are.


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

Someone on e-bay actually wants £120 for this very mangy example of Cowdenbeath's shirt from that 92/93 season.

Yes, I know they're rare and all that, but...


----------



## Sue (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> Someone on e-bay actually wants £120 for this very mangy example of Cowdenbeath's shirt from that 92/93 season.
> 
> Yes, I know they're rare and all that, but...
> View attachment 294404


That is not up there with the most attractive football tops ever...


----------



## two sheds (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> www.theguardian.com/football/video/2017/oct/30/cowdenbeath-head-first-tackle-penalty-berwick-rangers-scotland-video


Ta - how did you do that? I normally never have a problem with guardian type links but it kept putting [MEDIA]]/[MEDIA] round it which didn't display and didn't display it when I put the full link address. Was it just removing the https?


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

early 90s tops rarely were. But early 90s also all the rage with art school kids now so no doubt some sadsack will be tempted.


----------



## killer b (Oct 27, 2021)

Sue said:


> It feel like some of the folk on here have never met a football fan.


I know many football fans, most of whom are pretty tiresome on the topic of football - including lots of essentialism about the _right way_ to be a football fan. fuck that, enjoy shit however you like.


----------



## JimW (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> Someone on e-bay actually wants £120 for this very mangy example of Cowdenbeath's shirt from that 92/93 season.
> 
> Yes, I know they're rare and all that, but...
> View attachment 294404


You could probably get half the current first team to come round a mow your lawn for not a lot more.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Ta - how did you do that? I normally never have a problem with guardian type links but it kept putting [MEDIA]]/[MEDIA] round it which didn't display and didn't display it when I put the full link address. Was it just removing the https?


Aye, you might not even need the double u double double u.


----------



## Sue (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> early 90s tops rarely were. But early 90s also all the rage with art school kids now so no doubt some sadsack will be tempted.


It looks kind of 80s round the collar but maybe 80s = 90s in the Kingdom...


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

All football shirts are ugly


----------



## two sheds (Oct 27, 2021)

I've got a lot of respect for fans of their local, lower-division teams, particularly the ones who go and see them in all weathers. The upper divisions of the league wouldn't be the same without them.


----------



## JimW (Oct 27, 2021)

killer b said:


> I know many football fans, most of whom are pretty tiresome on the topic of football - including lots of essentialism about the _right way_ to be a football fan. fuck that, enjoy shit however you like.


I do think better of people who engage when they're there rather than just spectate though, otherwise why not just watch a better game on the telly? Don't mean you have to be a plastic ultra, I used to appreciate the old fellas moaning about the lino for ninety minutes with or without justification about as much, at least they're having more of a live experience. And those just watching are depending on the rest of the crowd to provide the unique football atmosphere TM by and large.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

Sue said:


> 'At the time Dore was in her early 20s, a poet with a communications degree working as a publicist at a publisher of self-help and psychology textbooks. She had been struck by how the research she encountered through her job could help people to gain new insight into their thoughts, feelings and behaviours – if only they knew to seek it out.
> 
> Tarot, she thought, could be a similar conduit to awareness and introspection. These two strands – barriers to self-help, and tarot as a path to it – travelled together in Dore’s mind, culminating in a “strange and unlikely marriage”: she became a licensed social worker and full-time tarot reader.'
> 
> ...


But I note she uses the Waite tarot illustrated by Pamela Coleman yet makes no reference to colour (which was very important to the golden dawn) or qabalah, with which the trumps very much associated with. Not surprised she's a background in self-help publishing


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> All football shirts are ugly


Tosh. You've let your antipathy to the sport take you beyond anything you can reasonably defend


----------



## Sue (Oct 27, 2021)

two sheds said:


> I've got a lot of respect for fans of their local, lower-division teams, particularly the ones who go and see them in all weathers. The upper divisions of the league wouldn't be the same without them.


My BIL's involved in his local (what used to be junior league) football team. Does a lot of fundraising, helps put together the programmes, sells them on match day, writes the match reports, that kind of thing. He's one of the folk out watching them in the sleet and snow in some unprepossessing ground in the back of beyond on a Tuesday night. 

He also has his other team that he's been supporting since he was a kid and he goes to see them sometimes too but a lot less often than the local one.


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

Cowden had a decent side before that clusterfuck of a season referenced above.

Killie 2-1 Cowdenbeath from 1990- a very strong Killie team containing the late Tommy Burns. A few of that Cowden team were still around in 92/93. The video features a young Jim Shite presenting (now on Sky Sports) and Jock Brown commentating. Happy days.

If it's any consolation Cowden here are wearing a pub team strip bought from the local sports shop, no badge, and a weird sponsor  

We'll see if we can get this thread re-named "Why Cowdenbeath are going down the pan" but I don't think treelover's around anymore to make it happen.

Fuck the Guardian anyway, everyone knows it's shite. A bit like a thread entitled "Why Boris Johnson's a wank".


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I had to defriend an Urbanite on FB once cos of this horrible tribalistic nonsense they were promulgating. It’s no wonder there’s so much violence on and off the pitch.


Yeh it's all down to footballers and footy fans


----------



## ska invita (Oct 27, 2021)

two sheds said:


> I've got a lot of respect for fans of their local, lower-division teams, particularly the ones who go and see them in all weathers. The upper divisions of the league wouldn't be the same without them.


Respect and also amazement people have that much time on their hands


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 27, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Why would you?
> 
> Agree about their fans. Back in the day, the hooligans from Leeds were as bad as they come.


Back in the 70s, me and some mates arrived late for an away game at Elland Road, and accidentally headed for the wrong end. On that occasion I had reason to be thankful to Yorkshire dibble for holding back the orcs from Leeds as, with two fingered salutes and wanker hand gestures, we calmly sauntered round to the away end


----------



## hash tag (Oct 27, 2021)

I saw Palace win an FA Cup game away there in the '70s. We had to walk right through the faithful to get to the specials. Don't say a word was the advice as the accent was a bit of a give away


----------



## killer b (Oct 27, 2021)

sounds like football is a really great sport to be into.


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Ta - how did you do that? I normally never have a problem with guardian type links but it kept putting [MEDIA]]/[MEDIA] round it which didn't display and didn't display it when I put the full link address. Was it just removing the https?


the Guardian webpage isn't one of the listed 'Media' types, its a standard webpage so wont show up in that format.  If you want to link to the actual video you will have to look at the page source code, find the original video link they are using to embed it, and then link to _that_

Thus:


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> All fans are like this IME (at least en masse). All that drunken chanting on trains. They don’t seem to realise how frightening they are.


Completely agree. Still haunted by being on a train with 3 Chelsea fans, hours of racist chanting, kicking in the door to a toilet. Can still picture them.

Comment when the train stopped at Nuneaton “It’s Bobby Sands’ station”


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 27, 2021)

See, that's another example. Had I been from Sarf London, no way could I have supported a club like Chelsea. Nor an Arsenal fan if from North London. There's loads of reasons not to support your local club.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 27, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> See, that's another example. Had I been from Sarf London, no way could I have supported a club like Chelsea. Nor an Arsenal fan if from North London. There's loads of reasons not to support your local club.


Why not Chelsea is obvious but why not Arsenal?


----------



## stdP (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> But early 90s also all the rage with art school kids now



I work next to what I think is some sort of fashion college. It's a bit weird seeing them all milling around outside the office wearing the exact same outfits I was wearing in 1994. It makes me feel like some sort of perv who's snuck in to the school disco.

Has the graun done any articles on why so many kids are wearing baggy jeans and Nirvana t-shirts? :|


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

stdP said:


> I work next to what I think is some sort of fashion college. It's a bit weird seeing them all milling around outside the office wearing the exact same outfits I was wearing in 1994. It makes me feel like some sort of perv who's snuck in to the school disco.
> 
> Has the graun done any articles on why so many kids are wearing baggy jeans and Nirvana t-shirts? :|



Blame Mark Leckey, the return of a fixation with 90s student TV & pop culture on youtube, and a fascination with the blurry last years of analogue / first years of the internet.

Something to do with Raymond Williams’ golden escalator, the early 90s being the halcyon time just before the college kids can remember anything. In the actual 90s there was a weird fixation with 70s culture IIRC.

O, and pop up ‘entrepreneurs’ selling old 90s tat / fake modern re-makes of same, who plague my instagram ads.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 27, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Why not Chelsea is obvious but why not Arsenal?


Because (for reasons probably just as irrational as some of the anti Man Utd stuff on here) I don't like them


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Respect and also amazement people have that much time on their hands



It’s just a (great, & social) hobby though. Other folk get absolutely tromboned for 48 hours on a Fri / Sat. Some get up at 0400 to catch sight of a rare wading bird on the Fens. Others spend half a year building a scale model of Durham Cathedral out of matchsticks or panelling their way through different levels on a computer game. All takes huge amounts of time.

I suppose the sadness in your point is that many folk now don’t have access to time or money for things like football.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 27, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Because (for reasons probably just as irrational as some of the anti Man Utd stuff on here) I don't like them


Ah...i thought it was because they're shit and they know they are


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> It’s just a (great, & social) hobby though. Other folk get absolutely tromboned for 48 hours on a Fri / Sat. Some get up at 0400 to catch sight of a rare wading bird on the Fens. Others spend half a year building a scale model of Durham Cathedral out of matchsticks or panelling their way through different levels on a computer game. All takes huge amounts of time.
> 
> I suppose the sadness in your point is that many folk now don’t have access to time or money for things like football.


 The thing about football, though, is that you have to watch a bunch of blokes in ugly clothes and ugly shoes kick a ball around for an hour and a half


----------



## two sheds (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> The thing about football, though, is that you have to watch a bunch of blokes in ugly clothes and ugly shoes kick a ball around for an hour and a half


not necessarily blokes 

The Austria v N Ireland game the other night was a cracker.


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> The thing about football, though, is that you have to watch a bunch of blokes in ugly clothes and ugly shoes kick a ball around for an hour and a half



Trying _so hard_


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> Trying _so hard_


Isn’t this what football fans do? Unreasonably slag off the other lot?


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 27, 2021)

Best thing about it  slagging off the other lot.


----------



## hitmouse (Oct 27, 2021)

This is making me think there's got to be room for a diversion on Guardian-themed football chants. Can't actually think of any right now, but someone less tired than me should pick up the concept and do something good with it.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 27, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> This is making me think there's got to be room for a diversion on Guardian-themed football chants. Can't actually think of any right now, but someone less tired than me should pick up the concept and do something good with it.


one-nil to the starmerites, one-nil to the starmerites...

glory glory to the fabians, glory glory to the fabians....

oh when poly, comes marching in, when poly toynbee marches in, i want to cry in the toilet, when poly toynbee marches in

that kind of thing?


----------



## hitmouse (Oct 27, 2021)

HADLEY FREEMAN WALKS ON WATER

I'm forever blowing house price bubbles... idk, there must be some good ones out there?


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 27, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> This is making me think there's got to be room for a diversion on Guardian-themed football chants. Can't actually think of any right now, but someone less tired than me should pick up the concept and do something good with it.


Oh North London (Oh North London) is wonderful (is wonderful)
Oh North London is wonderful 
It’s full of Guardian Writers and quinoa
Oh North London is wonderful


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> "Bobo" Bollan was at the centre of Berwick Rangers' social media "manager" being sacked a couple of years back. The man tweeted that Bollan had invited the Beriwck manager to _"away n take yir face fir a shite"_, which garnered thousands of likes, but also his jotters on Monday morning from the puritanical Shielfield board.


I love going to watch Berwick Rangers play. I go with my dad. He knows some of the players as they all have jobs as local tradesmen.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 27, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> early 90s tops rarely were. But early 90s also all the rage with art school kids now so no doubt some sadsack will be tempted.


Might have to dig out my Aberdeen goalkeeper strip (navy blue, quite nice, I wore it a lot back in the day), see what I can get for it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 28, 2021)

I wanna second home
I wanna second home
This is the best trip to St. Ives
I've ever been on


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2021)

ska invita said:


> one-nil to the starmerites, one-nil to the starmerites...
> 
> glory glory to the fabians, glory glory to the fabians....
> 
> oh when poly, comes marching in, when poly toynbee marches in, i want to cry in the toilet, when poly toynbee marches in


hello hello we are the corbyn boys
hello hello we are the corbyn boys
and if you are a starmer fan
surrender or you die
we all follow jez corbyn


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Back in the 70s, me and some mates arrived late for an away game at Elland Road, and accidentally headed for the wrong end. On that occasion I had reason to be thankful to Yorkshire dibble for holding back the orcs from Leeds as, with two fingered salutes and wanker hand gestures, we calmly sauntered round to the away end


what was the score?


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 28, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> This is making me think there's got to be room for a diversion on Guardian-themed football chants. Can't actually think of any right now, but someone less tired than me should pick up the concept and do something good with it.


No Jeremy Corbyn!
No Jeremy Corbyn!


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 28, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> what was the score?


No idea. There was some mither after the game (well, there would be, back then) and as a fully paid up member of The Doc's Red Army, I was happy to do my bit 

There's some video footage* of it all somewhere on t'internet. Christ, us 70s hoolies all looked like the fucking Bay City Rollers 

*Edit: I'm guessing it's this:


But as YouTube asks me to verify my age, and I'm not prepared to give YouTube the steam off my piss, I'm unable to verify.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 28, 2021)

You’re going home in a Volvo Estate


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 28, 2021)

Ford Anglia, more like.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 28, 2021)

Hibs'll have to change it to 'Sunshine on Morningside' and it won't scan any more


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 29, 2021)

The royal we: subtle transition as ageing Queen devolves more duties
					

Other royals are stepping up, including at Cop26, as a monarch who doesn’t like to say no has to reduce her workload




					www.theguardian.com
				




Crawly royalist bullshit. 

Strangely quiet on what Prince Andrew is doing as part of this subtle devolution though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 29, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The royal we: subtle transition as ageing Queen devolves more duties
> 
> 
> Other royals are stepping up, including at Cop26, as a monarch who doesn’t like to say no has to reduce her workload
> ...


he's been caught taking the royal wee


----------



## Raheem (Oct 29, 2021)

I believe he's started to take more of an interest in penal reform.


----------



## rekil (Oct 29, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I believe he's started to take more of an interest in penal reform.


He'll turn up on novara to do a _Prison Abolition Now!_ turn.


----------



## Sue (Oct 29, 2021)

A slider is an ice cream wafer.

If you're American, it's allegedly some kind of mini burger.  

Is it a glorified flip flop? No, no it's not.









						‘So wrong, it’s right’: Sunak taps in to socks and sliders look
					

Chancellor mocked on social media for attempt at younger generation’s footwear trend




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 29, 2021)

Sue said:


> A slider is an ice cream wafer.
> 
> If you're American, it's allegedly some kind of mini burger.
> 
> ...


Wut? The only definition I’m familiar with is the poolside sandals that you say are not sliders


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 29, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Wut? The only definition I’m familiar with is the poolside sandals that you say are not sliders


Things that make you feel auld thread >>>>>


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 29, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Things that make you feel auld thread >>>>>


But it’s young people who call them that so it makes me feel young


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 29, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> But it’s young people who call them that so it makes me feel young


Theres a thread for you, things that make you feel young


----------



## hash tag (Oct 29, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Theres a thread for you, things that make you feel young


----------



## andysays (Oct 30, 2021)

Sue said:


> A slider is an ice cream wafer...



My Mum, originally from Aberdeen, used that one, though I don't think I've ever heard anyone else use it.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 30, 2021)

Sue said:


> A slider is an ice cream wafer.
> 
> If you're American, it's allegedly some kind of mini burger.
> 
> ...


It’s what we call the slides you get in kiddy’s playgrounds around these parts. Same way we say cider.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 3, 2021)

Um. Stuart Heritage writing the piece about Diwali. What a relief that victory of light over darkess was only symbolic


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 3, 2021)

Stuart 'secret Indian' Heritage...


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 3, 2021)

They do loads of these digests of other people’s recipes. None of them by cookery writers. They don’t even test them themselves. They’ve just searched through the archives.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 3, 2021)

They presumably have writers who actually celebrate Diwali, though. Maybe they were too busy actually celebrating it, or preparing to, to be bothered taking on a half-arsed piece like this. But no job's too banal for Stuart Heritage...


----------



## hash tag (Nov 6, 2021)

Today, a 48 page supplement of advertising, by green and ethical companies 🙄


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Today, a 48 page supplement of advertising, by green and ethical companies 🙄


and you bought it


----------



## hash tag (Nov 6, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> and you bought it


As is usually the case at weekends. Also, it does need supporting.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 8, 2021)

article on the website about black and asian soldiers in the second world war, about how many war heroes have had their stories uncovered

there was this paragraph

i thought even the guardian - EVEN THE GUARDIAN! - would know the queen had a coronation and didn't stand on a windy platorm and swear to uphold the british constitution

and that bit about fazal karim coming out with communist ideologies just sounds weird









						UK pupils explore untold war stories of black and Asian soldiers
					

Remember Together project at schools in London and Rochdale opens eyes to family and local histories




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 8, 2021)

Yeah, i'm no monarchist but I know the Queen had a coronation. Pillocks.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 8, 2021)

I think you're both correct; never seen _Inauguration Chicken_ on the menu.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 8, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Yeah, i'm no monarchist but I know the Queen had a coronation. Pillocks.





brogdale said:


> I think you're both correct; never seen _Inauguration Chicken_ on the menu.


i checked and here is how the guardian reported the momentous event


----------



## two sheds (Nov 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> i checked and here is how the guardian reported the momentous event
> View attachment 295978


that was a trap wasn't it


----------



## belboid (Nov 8, 2021)

brogdale said:


> I think you're both correct; never seen _Inauguration Chicken_ on the menu.


iirr, Channel 5 dropped Inauguration Street after one series


----------



## belboid (Nov 8, 2021)

Dutch monarchs are inaugurated, cos they don’t have a crown.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 8, 2021)

belboid said:


> Dutch monarchs are inaugurated, cos they don’t have a crown.



I was outside the palace on Dam Square at the last Dutch 'coronation'.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 8, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> I was outside the palace on Dam Square at the last Dutch 'coronation'.



I was watching from Fucking balcony.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 8, 2021)

two sheds said:


> that was a trap wasn't it





Spoiler


----------



## bluescreen (Nov 8, 2021)

We could tell because the letters weren't quite straight.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 8, 2021)

yes I noticed that


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 8, 2021)

bluescreen said:


> We could tell because the letters weren't quite straight.


the master criminal always makes one fatal error


----------



## JimW (Nov 8, 2021)

Inauguration because they took the auspices for the new emperor I presume, coronation and the family's taken the horse piss for decades instead.
I love to shoehorn in that terrible pun on the rare occasions it has even slight relevance.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> the master criminal always makes one fatal error


The fact that 'II' is about to fall right off the page is a bit of a giveaway too


----------



## andysays (Nov 8, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 295981


Was going to say, that's quite a typo, even for the Guardian...


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 8, 2021)

two sheds said:


> that was a trap wasn't it


Yeah you fucker Pickman's model


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 8, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Yeah you fucker Pickman's model


I shall forgive you in a few minutes. Perhaps...


----------



## 8ball (Nov 8, 2021)

"Wet but magic moments"


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 11, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> They presumably have writers who actually celebrate Diwali, though. Maybe they were too busy actually celebrating it, or preparing to, to be bothered taking on a half-arsed piece like this. But no job's too banal for Stuart Heritage...



How to make vegetable biryani

WTF, is it Raj week at the Guardian or something? What's with all the white people telling us how to do brown people stuff?


----------



## Flavour (Nov 22, 2021)

‘People expect cheap food, drink and accommodation – that horse has bolted’: a hotelier on life without EU workers
					

Veryan Palmer should be looking forward to her Cornish hotel’s best ever November. Instead, she is having to shut rooms at the five-star establishment




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## two sheds (Nov 22, 2021)

> Hospitality works on such tight margins.


such incredibly tight margins that they've just got a brand new £10 million Aqua Club with six pools and a sun terrace.

I'm tempted by a week with their Winter Wellness package though.


> Enjoy the ultimate relaxing break this winter at The Headland with our Winter Wellness package .... From £310 per night in a Cosy Double Room or from £397 per night in a one bed Sea View Cottage based on two adults sharing.



Only 71 bedrooms now though.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 22, 2021)

Flavour said:


> ‘People expect cheap food, drink and accommodation – that horse has bolted’: a hotelier on life without EU workers
> 
> 
> Veryan Palmer should be looking forward to her Cornish hotel’s best ever November. Instead, she is having to shut rooms at the five-star establishment
> ...



She'd be even further up shit creek if it weren't for all this free broadsheet publicity, I assume.


----------



## Flavour (Nov 22, 2021)

We were so delighted when the Poles arrived


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 22, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> She'd be even further up shit creek if it weren't for all this free broadsheet publicity, I assume.


good of the guardian to link to their website


----------



## two sheds (Nov 22, 2021)

couple of nice freebies for the staff you'd hope


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 22, 2021)

Advertorial innit.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 22, 2021)

Don't think so - is bylined and doesn't say Advertorial.


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 22, 2021)

Back door advertorial then.... mate of the journo.


----------



## petee (Nov 23, 2021)

_Over the years, I have developed a great deal of empathy for those __who have far too much__. _









						I’m a therapist to the super-rich: they are as miserable as Succession makes out | Clay Cockrell
					

Many billionaires I work with have trust issues, lack a sense of purpose and struggle with shame, guilt and fear, says psychotherapist Clay Cockrell




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## stavros (Nov 23, 2021)

Alok Sharma says that COP26 was a roaring success.

Fair play to the Graun for opening up comments on this though.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 23, 2021)

petee said:


> _Over the years, I have developed a great deal of empathy for those __who have far too much__. _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Many billionaires I work with have trust issues, lack a sense of purpose and struggle with shame, guilt and fear"

I would prefer they had issues with huge mobs capturing them, ransacking their homes, appropriating their wealth and finally, after making them watch the above, shooting them in the head.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 23, 2021)

TopCat said:


> "Many billionaires I work with have trust issues, lack a sense of purpose and struggle with shame, guilt and fear"
> 
> I would prefer they had issues with huge mobs capturing them, ransacking their homes, appropriating their wealth and finally, after making them watch the above, shooting them in the head.


It would certainly take their minds off of their emotional problems.


----------



## flypanam (Nov 24, 2021)

TopCat said:


> "Many billionaires I work with have trust issues, lack a sense of purpose and struggle with shame, guilt and fear"
> 
> I would prefer they had issues with huge mobs capturing them, ransacking their homes, appropriating their wealth and finally, after making them watch the above, shooting them in the head.


Could we just make them work as domestic slaves, oops I mean servants for one of those Saudi’s  who likes to keeps a tight leash on his staff. In exchange for the release of their already captive slaves, I mean help. obviously the billionaire due their natural abilities and work ethic would be a better foot stool, I mean Valet.

And then after a year or two do the shooting of both master and ex billionaire?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 25, 2021)

They don't  even know what day it is.
I know they write this at stupid o'clock in the morning but there are massive errors all the time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 25, 2021)

flypanam said:


> Could we just make them work as domestic slaves, oops I mean servants for one of those Saudi’s  who likes to keeps a tight leash on his staff. In exchange for the release of their already captive slaves, I mean help. obviously the billionaire due their natural abilities and work ethic would be a better foot stool, I mean Valet.
> 
> And then after a year or two do the shooting of both master and ex billionaire?


Will no one think of the penguins or polar bears?


----------



## bluescreen (Nov 25, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Will no one think of the penguins or polar bears?


Will no one think of the chilled?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 25, 2021)

bluescreen said:


> Will no one think of the chilled?


Yes, I'm glad you've raised that as we must save Tories etc for future Arctic and Antarctic wildlife and these future dinners will be known, as you say, as the chilled, frozen against the time their corpses will be needed


----------



## NoXion (Nov 26, 2021)

Spare that flea! How to deal humanely with every common household pest
					

Is it possible to keep your home free of rats, mice, moths and ants without killing them? And which ones should you get rid of – and which should you learn to live with?




					www.theguardian.com
				




I didn't think it was possible to be so wet, they'll be promoting vegetable rights next. They have one reasonable point about cleaning up the things that attract pests, which they keep repeating because it's the only one they have, but that's just as important for pest control even if you do use lethal methods.

I don't like it when people kill harmless little house spiders, but the nonsense in the article is far beyond that. Your home is _your_ habitat, fuck this "don't even call them pests" bullshit. They are out of place and _can carry diseases._ I'm glad that Timmy boy here isn't a farmer. Try taking that kind of soft-headed attitude with growing crops, and we'd all fucking starve because the little shits that eat crops would take full advantage of such imbecility.


----------



## stdP (Nov 26, 2021)

NoXion said:


> They are out of place and _can carry diseases._



Oh, so you're the kind of person that supports the slaughter of innocent bacteria and viruses too? I bet you supported the genocide of smallpox 😠


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 26, 2021)

Fucking hell. I used to live in the old tower blocks on Holly Street, Hackney. It was cockroach central and you could never get rid of them as they travelled up and down the whole block through the heating system. I'd like to see the patience of that cunt, after coming home to see hundreds of them scurrying around the kitchen, running across you in your bed, or having to flick them off your sleeping baby. The cunt


----------



## NoXion (Nov 26, 2021)

stdP said:


> Oh, so you're the kind of person that supports the slaughter of innocent bacteria and viruses too? I bet you supported the genocide of smallpox 😠



The possibility that I might wake up one day in a world in which a pernicious disease has been utterly eradicated is one of the reasons I keep on living.

Some things _should_ go extinct.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Nov 26, 2021)

stdP said:


> Oh, so you're the kind of person that supports the slaughter of innocent bacteria and viruses too? I bet you supported the genocide of smallpox 😠


I've actually had a conversation with someone who thought that the eradication of smallpox had been a crime.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 26, 2021)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> I've actually had a conversation with someone who thought that the eradication of smallpox had been a crime.



Tell them to womble over to Porton Down, they can oblige with a dose of smallpox.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 26, 2021)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> I've actually had a conversation with someone who thought that the eradication of smallpox had been a crime.


What was the crime and their reasoning for such a batshit viewpoint?


----------



## Raheem (Nov 26, 2021)

I suppose it _was_ technically genocide.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> Tell them to womble over to Porton Down, they can oblige with a dose of smallpox.


They shouldn't have any, only meant to be in one place in America and one in russia


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I suppose it _was_ technically genocide.


I thought you would do


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Nov 26, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> What was the crime and their reasoning for such a batshit viewpoint?





Raheem said:


> I suppose it _was_ technically genocide.


Raheem has nailed it. Long live biodiversity!


Pickman's model said:


> Only if you don't know what genocide means


Well he didn't have a dictionary handy at the time.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 26, 2021)

virocide


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 26, 2021)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Well he didn't have a dictionary handy at the time.


Or his wits


----------



## Raheem (Nov 26, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Only if you don't know what genocide means


Not at all. According to almost all erroneous definitions of genocide imaginable, eradicating smallpox would not count.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Nov 26, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Or his wits


Not going to argue with you on that.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 26, 2021)

they interviewed Matteo Salvini and published it


----------



## 8ball (Nov 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> they interviewed Matteo Salvini and published it



Should they only interview people they or we agree with?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 27, 2021)

8ball said:


> Should they only interview people they or we agree with?


No. But they should only be interviewing people whose views they find interesting.  They are giving a platform to a fascist.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> No. But they should only be interviewing people whose views they find interesting.  They are giving a platform to a fascist.


Fascists' views are interesting. Sun Tzu said if you don't know your enemy you'll always be defeated.


----------



## rekil (Nov 27, 2021)

Yeah but the interview is a load of worthless softball shit where he gets to gloat about people drowning and hand every creep on the internet an emboldening soundbite.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 27, 2021)

Also, they don’t tend to interview home grown Spodes like Farage and Robinson, so I was surprised to see the interview and the inflammatory clickbait soundbite used in the headline


----------



## hash tag (Nov 27, 2021)

Are there not one or two more important things to draw people's attention to than Christmas and Sex. This is more and more like a tabloid.


----------



## gosub (Nov 27, 2021)

from

The Labour party meanwhile said Britain should cut the gap between the second dose of a Covid-19 vaccination and the booster jab from six to five months. “The pandemic is not over. We need to urgently bolster our defences to keep the virus at bay,” said Labour’s junior health spokesperson Alex Norris on Saturday morning.

except Government already did that , effective last Monday.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 27, 2021)

gosub said:


> from
> 
> The Labour party meanwhile said Britain should cut the gap between the second dose of a Covid-19 vaccination and the booster jab from six to five months. “The pandemic is not over. We need to urgently bolster our defences to keep the virus at bay,” said Labour’s junior health spokesperson Alex Norris on Saturday morning.
> 
> except Government already did that , effective last Monday.


I thought you could _book_ your booster after five months, _for_ six months after your second jab.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2021)

gosub said:


> from
> 
> The Labour party meanwhile said Britain should cut the gap between the second dose of a Covid-19 vaccination and the booster jab from six to five months. “The pandemic is not over. We need to urgently bolster our defences to keep the virus at bay,” said Labour’s junior health spokesperson Alex Norris on Saturday morning.
> 
> except Government already did that , effective last Monday.


go on then, where's your second link?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Nov 27, 2021)

gosub said:


> from
> 
> The Labour party meanwhile said Britain should cut the gap between the second dose of a Covid-19 vaccination and the booster jab from six to five months. “The pandemic is not over. We need to urgently bolster our defences to keep the virus at bay,” said Labour’s junior health spokesperson Alex Norris on Saturday morning.
> 
> except Government already did that , effective last Monday.



Well, the shadow health secretary did send condolences to the family of the Liverpool bomber. 





__





						Ashworth apologises for offering 'condolences' to family of Liverpool bomber - Politics.co.uk
					

Labour’s shadow secretary of state for health Jonathan Ashworth has apologised for yesterday offering his ‘condolences’ the family of the dead Liverpool bomber on Sky News. Ashworth said today: “I misread the news ticker in an interview and thought a member of the public had now died. My deepest...




					www.politics.co.uk


----------



## Sue (Nov 27, 2021)

It's hard being a Winchester and Cambridge educated outsider, getting into acting via that outsider route of the Cambridge Footlights.   









						‘I have an outsider’s perspective’: why Will Sharpe is the A-List’s new favourite director
					

The actor-director won a Bafta for his performance in Giri/Haji. Hailed as a star in the making by Olivia Colman, he discusses the true stories that inspired his new projects




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2021)

Sue said:


> It's hard being a Winchester and Cambridge educated outsider, getting into acting via that outsider route of the Cambridge Footlights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


bastard oxford thesps don't like the cambridge oiks, no doubt


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> Well, the shadow health secretary did send condolences to the family of the Liverpool bomber.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it's the corbyn virus, no doubt, which sir keithly shammer's labour party can't shrug off


----------



## stavros (Nov 29, 2021)

The Beatles were like aliens from the future in 1969 - and they are still as radical today​


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 29, 2021)

stavros said:


> The Beatles were like aliens from the future in 1969 - and they are still as radical today​


For fucks sake.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Nov 29, 2021)

stavros said:


> The Beatles were like aliens from the future in 1969 - and they are still as radical today​


Christ.

I'm thinking about writing a similar clickbait article about NWA, wrapped in wanky shit. If they would actually pay me for it.


----------



## Raheem (Nov 29, 2021)

"NWA were like tiny children in 1969..."


----------



## Raheem (Nov 29, 2021)

I started watching that new Beatles series. Seriously bad filmmaking by Jackson, but quite good if you want to meditate on which Beatle comes across as the biggest wanker. It's George and, surprisingly, John doesn't come close.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 29, 2021)

8 hours of nursery rhymes, surely that must test the patience of even Beatles stans


----------



## 8ball (Nov 29, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I started watching that new Beatles series. Seriously bad filmmaking by Jackson, but quite good if you want to meditate on which Beatle comes across as the biggest wanker. It's George and, surprisingly, John doesn't come close.



Really?  I thought George was meant to be the non-wanker of the bunch.


----------



## killer b (Nov 29, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> 8 hours of nursery rhymes, surely that must test the patience of even Beatles stans


Nah, it's making music twitter unusable. We're only 5 days solid of it now.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 29, 2021)

killer b said:


> Nah, it's making music twitter unusable. We're only 5 days solid of it now.


I’ve not seen much tbh


----------



## killer b (Nov 29, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I’ve not seen much tbh


I think the ambient synth lads are probably more beatles-adjacent than the techno crew tbf


----------



## Raheem (Nov 29, 2021)

8ball said:


> Really?  I thought George was meant to be the non-wanker of the bunch.


Don't get me wrong, it's not like he's a massive obvious arsehole, but it seems to me like he has an underlying bitter attitude to Paul and John. Also, on day one he brings in a Hare Krishna to pray silently in the corner while the Beatles rehearse. Gone by day two, though.

John I expected to be a constant dick, being rude to people, imposing his personality and so on. But he comes across as the most intelligent of the four, unflinchingly pleasant and not egotistical in the way he relates to the others. So maybe finding out he's not such a dick my brain now wants to fill in the gap and decide who is.

Of course, this is all based on a particular moment in time when they all know they're being filmed


----------



## Serene (Nov 29, 2021)

The Guardian website seems to be full of right-wing trolls.


----------



## bluescreen (Nov 29, 2021)

Serene said:


> The Guardian website seems to be full of right-wing trolls.


Do you mean BTL? It was ever thus.

ETA. Yes, plenty of them ATL as well.


----------



## Serene (Nov 29, 2021)

bluescreen said:


> Do you mean BTL? It was ever thus.
> 
> ETA. Yes, plenty of them ATL as well.


Aye. I think Johnson and his cronies have jumped over to troll because the Telegraph closed its comments section.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2021)

Serene said:


> The Guardian website seems to be full of right-wing trolls.


Only the naive and foolish read comments on newspaper articles more than once


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 6, 2021)

So - you get off lighter if you're a shop assistant or delivery driver who likes a bit of chang? Would your proletarian credentials be fatally undermined if the prosecution have video evidence of you shopping for quinoa in waitrose? Or is the guardian slavishly parroting the government's latest war on drugs twaddle about coke being a "middle class" drug?

Middle-class drug users could lose UK passports under Boris Johnson’s plans


----------



## magneze (Dec 6, 2021)

They probably check your browser history - reading the Guardian probably counts as "middle class".


----------



## two sheds (Dec 6, 2021)

Upper class drug users obviously won't be tested by the police in the first place


----------



## 8ball (Dec 6, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Upper class drug users obviously won't be tested by the police in the first place



Yeah, can’t see MPs being tested on their way into Parliament.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2021)

8ball said:


> Yeah, can’t see MPs being tested on their way into Parliament.



Wouldn't that be fun. Put the fear into them, sniffer dogs like at the turnstiles on the underground, MPs cuffed and led off, pleading


----------



## stavros (Dec 10, 2021)




----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2021)

so the jung alternative fur deutschland were out on a demonstration in berlin against covid restrictions. jad are as you'd suspect a far-right group. but the guardian didn't mention them or their politics in their caption to this photo

saying only 








						Covid news: Boris Johnson unveils booster plan; South African president tests positive – as it happened
					

Latest updates: UK prime minister gives televised address; Starmer says Johnson looks to have broken Covid law with Christmas quiz




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2021)

spotted this sweet little tidbit in this piece about the viral popularity of BBC journalist Ros Atkins









						Skewering No 10 over Christmas parties has made Ros Atkins a BBC star
					

The Outside Source presenter’s forceful yet objective journalism is winning him ever more admirers




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2021)

killer b said:


> spotted this sweet little tidbit in this piece about the viral popularity of BBC journalist Ros Atkins
> 
> 
> 
> ...


although there's also this information about Atkins himself: 

_Atkins, a former DJ who ran a club night in Brixton in the 2000s_

Does he post here?


----------



## Sue (Dec 15, 2021)

killer b said:


> although there's also this information about Atkins himself:
> 
> _Atkins, a former DJ who ran a club night in Brixton in the 2000s_
> 
> Does he post here?


I assumed Ros Atkins was a woman.


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2021)

Sue said:


> I assumed Ros Atkins was a woman.


I assumed it must be an abreviation of something more obviously male, but it's Roslyn so, no.


----------



## 8ball (Dec 15, 2021)

killer b said:


> I assumed it must be an abreviation of something more obviously male, but it's Roslyn so, no.



Old German for "gentle horse".


----------



## bluescreen (Dec 15, 2021)

He's Cornish, AFAIK. Seems pretty sound - haven't seen anything sus by him yet, despite attempts to smear him with Morgan O'Brien.


----------



## killer b (Dec 15, 2021)

I have no idea about him tbh, I posted the quote from the article as it's two poles of the political divide were so laughably close together rather than as any comment on the journalist they both admire.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2021)

killer b said:


> spotted this sweet little tidbit in this piece about the viral popularity of BBC journalist Ros Atkins
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did not know Ros Atkins was a man!


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 15, 2021)

Sue said:


> I assumed Ros Atkins was a woman.


Me too!


----------



## hash tag (Dec 15, 2021)

8ball said:


> Yeah, can’t see MPs being tested on their way into Parliament.


These days, MPs, especially Tories seem to be exempt, from just about everything.


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 15, 2021)

Only BBC news channel programme I can be arsed with is Ros Atkins.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 16, 2021)

Adrian Chiles. 3,000 words on preparing for _Strictly Come Dancing Christmas Special_.









						Adrian Chiles’s Christmas Strictly diary: ‘Unused to my tight outfit, I didn’t get low enough for the lift ...’
					

I don’t recall saying yes to the show. Perhaps I just stopped saying no. But all of a sudden, a champion dancer was on her way to train me – and to my dismay there was no turning back




					www.theguardian.com
				




THREE. THOUSAND. WORDS.


----------



## hash tag (Dec 16, 2021)

Adrian Chile's can be the most miserable of people at the beat of times.


----------



## hitmouse (Dec 16, 2021)

Classic centrist 4D chess wisdom:








						For Starmer, the best way to take Johnson down right now may be to agree with him | Rafael Behr
					

Voting with the government on plan B is not just in the national interest – it will aggravate splits in Conservative ranks, says Guardian columnist Rafael Behr




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Adrian Chiles. 3,000 words on preparing for _Strictly Come Dancing Christmas Special_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Chiles is working you marks like a pro. Great gimmick he's got going on. 👑


----------



## Sasaferrato (Dec 16, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Adrian Chiles. 3,000 words on preparing for _Strictly Come Dancing Christmas Special_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When your Mrs is the editor, any old garbage will do.


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2021)

You're all insane - Chiles' articles are the best thing about the Guardian at the moment.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 16, 2021)

. snr (bishops) moment...wrong tread


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Hope all those elderly tory voters in Shropshire N. are getting an early night tonight to be up early for their turn at the polling stations tomorrow.


after the noises that have been made about pensions (eg this express story Escape Sunak’s 55% ‘horror’ pension tax – 4 ways to avoid this cruel charge on retirement, this telegraph story https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/10/14/pensions-savers-face-higher-charges-levelling-drive/) i hope they've all turned out and voted with their financial interests in mind


----------



## brogdale (Dec 16, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> after the noises that have been made about pensions (eg this express story Escape Sunak’s 55% ‘horror’ pension tax – 4 ways to avoid this cruel charge on retirement, this telegraph story Pensions savers face higher charges in 'levelling up' drive) i hope they've all turned out and voted with their financial interests in mind


Hmmm...I suspect we're dealing with blue rosette on donkey territory outside the towns.


----------



## hitmouse (Dec 16, 2021)

brogdale said:


> . snr (bishops) moment...wrong tread


Is this you trying to audition for Chiles' column? You've got a way to go yet.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 16, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Is this you trying to audition for Chiles' column? You've got a way to go yet.


Sorry, I think i was only just coming round from a beer-induced nap when i tried to post.


----------



## killer b (Dec 16, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Sorry, I think i was only just coming round from a beer-induced nap when i tried to post.


Chiles could get a 4000 word column out of such a mishap


----------



## Carvaged (Dec 22, 2021)




----------



## rekil (Dec 22, 2021)

Chiles should do the audio version of Mark Lanegan's book.









						‘This thing was trying to dismantle me’: Mark Lanegan on nearly dying of Covid
					

In this extract from his new memoir Devil in a Coma, the alt-rocker recalls how Covid-19 put him in hospital for months this year – and gave him a series of hallucinogenic visions




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 22, 2021)

killer b said:


> Chiles could get a 4000 word column out of such a mishap


A long awaited cure for insomnia


----------



## Sue (Dec 22, 2021)

In terms of pointless stuff that it's astonishing they paid good money for.

tl:dr I was young, had been single for a few months and my self-confidence WAS SO LOW that I approached a man I'd never met before, told him he was gorgeous and was having sex with him minutes later.  As LOW IN SELF-CONFIDENCE people are wont to do. 









						My winter of love: I was convinced no one wanted me. But there was a gorgeous man who did
					

The night of the party, I put my heartbreak aside. With nothing to lose, I walked up to a man and told him he was the most handsome one in the room




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 22, 2021)

Sue said:


> In terms of pointless stuff that it's astonishing they paid good money for.
> 
> tl:dr I was young, had been single for a few months and my self-confidence WAS SO LOW that I approached a man I'd never met before, told him he was gorgeous and was having sex with him minutes later.  As LOW IN SELF-CONFIDENCE people are wont to do.
> 
> ...


I got to the first sentence of the second paragraph before I found it emetic


----------



## Sue (Dec 22, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> I got to the first sentence of the second paragraph before I found it emetic


Hopefully my tl:dr made you realise you didn't really need (want?) to read the rest...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 22, 2021)

Sue said:


> Hopefully my tl:dr made you realise you didn't really need (want?) to read the rest...


I thought I had a stronger stomach than it turns out I do


----------



## stdP (Dec 22, 2021)

Sue said:


> tl:dr I was young, had been single for a few months and my self-confidence WAS SO LOW that I approached a man I'd never met before, told him he was gorgeous and was having sex with him minutes later.



Has the Graun finally merged with _Reader's Wives_?

I would hope they'd be able to shoehorn in a butternut squash somewhere.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2021)

no, I skimmed it to see if there were any rude bits but theres nothing of that sort.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 22, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> no, I skimmed it to see if there were any rude bits but theres nothing of that sort.


It was no _Blood & Sand_, that's for sure


----------



## steeplejack (Dec 22, 2021)

Carvaged said:


>



This is lengthy speculative drivel which ends with Hancock being described as "a fantasist" by a senior Tory strategist. That he is willing to act as a catchfart for Johnson on the airwaves when few if any others will is not likely to change the picture for him.


----------



## Sue (Dec 23, 2021)

Especially for you, Pickman's model 
'My winter of love: The lesbian gathering was freezing cold. Would a clinch with an anarchist help?'​








						My winter of love: The lesbian gathering was freezing cold. Would a clinch with an anarchist help?
					

It was bitter weather in Geneva in 1986 and all any of us could think about was getting warm. Then I met a charismatic woman and felt a strong mutual attraction




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2021)

Sue said:


> Especially for you, Pickman's model
> 'My winter of love: The lesbian gathering was freezing cold. Would a clinch with an anarchist help?'​
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## platinumsage (Dec 23, 2021)




----------



## brogdale (Dec 23, 2021)




----------



## magneze (Dec 23, 2021)

Why so long?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2021)

magneze said:


> Why so long?


You should be grateful, they've been talked back from 2030


----------



## magneze (Dec 23, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> You should be grateful, they've been talked back from 2030


I'm kinda hoping they mean 20:25, today ...


----------



## Sprocket. (Dec 23, 2021)

magneze said:


> I'm kinda hoping they mean 20:25, today ...


You’d hope so with their clock musings.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 27, 2021)

The UK will be stuck with low wages until productivity goes up
					

The years from 2007-2022 are forecast to be the worst on record for household incomes. It’s not hard to see why




					www.theguardian.com
				




The beatings will continue until morale improves.


----------



## platinumsage (Dec 27, 2021)




----------



## Raheem (Dec 27, 2021)

platinumsage said:


>



That really is a stupid map, which you can see straight away by looking at South America. Guyana coloured black because it is part of France and has French testing and reporting. The rest of the continent pretty much unaffected by Covid.


----------



## Carvaged (Dec 28, 2021)

This is the Graun's second puff piece on this repugnant scrote in under a week. Do you reckon they have shares in him??


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 28, 2021)

I moved to the coast for a better life – now I’m back in London where I belong | Laura Barton
					

Last spring, just when everyone else was fleeing the capital, I was returning, hungry for all its glorious chaos, says music writer Laura Barton




					www.theguardian.com
				




Good news for the Kent coast - DFL types are moving back!


----------



## brogdale (Dec 28, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> I moved to the coast for a better life – now I’m back in London where I belong | Laura Barton
> 
> 
> Last spring, just when everyone else was fleeing the capital, I was returning, hungry for all its glorious chaos, says music writer Laura Barton
> ...


FFS


> I had left London in the summer of 2014. *Having flirted with the idea of moving to Los Angeles, instead I chose the Kent coast,* then in the early flush of regeneration. I was looking for something that felt more like a community, close enough for creativity to mingle. Somewhere, perhaps, to finally feel settled.


----------



## quiet guy (Dec 28, 2021)

Well there's her problem straight away, thinking the Kent coast was a good substitute for Los Angeles.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 28, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> Well there's her problem straight away, thinking the Kent coast was a good substitute for Los Angeles.


Also evident that she only mingled with the other wanky 'ex-pats' and could or would not engage with the locals.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 28, 2021)

You people are going to lose your shit when you see the article she wrote almost exactly one year ago 😂









						I was bored of chats about house prices and polyamory – but I had a secret plan for happiness
					

Desperate to regain my sense of wonder, I have spent 18 months learning about the world




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## strung out (Dec 28, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> Well there's her problem straight away, thinking the Kent coast was a good substitute for Los Angeles.


It's not, it's much better. LA is an empty, vapid, shithole.


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2021)

strung out said:


> empty, vapid


I wonder what appealed to the Guardian lifestyle columnist?


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 28, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> You people are going to lose your shit when you see the article she wrote almost exactly one year ago 😂
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I expected her to dump the boyfriend and move to Anglesey or something...


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 28, 2021)

The Guardian has been running these "I used to do/want/think like/believe/live in/love/hate X but now I've chosen Y instead and now can't stand X" articles for as long as I can remember. It's what these fuckers are good at


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 28, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> The Guardian has been running these "I used to do/want/think like/believe/live in/love/hate X but now I've chosen Y instead and now can't stand X" articles for as long as I can remember. It's what these fuckers are good at


But this one was just particularly bollocks.


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 28, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> But this one was just particularly bollocks.


You're probably right, but I only got as far as "Desperate to regain my..." then stopped reading.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 28, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> You're probably right, but I only got as far as "Desperate to regain my..." then stopped reading.


I read it so you don't have to. It's very mundane, basically an article explaining how bored she is of life but then changes nothing.


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 28, 2021)

Classic Guardian shite then


----------



## Sue (Dec 28, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> You're probably right, but I only got as far as "Desperate to regain my..." then stopped reading.


You missed out. What she actually said was:

'Desperate to regain my political perspective, I re-read Kapital and realised I needed to sort my shit out.


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 28, 2021)

Sue said:


> You missed out. What she actually said was:
> 
> 'Desperate to regain my political perspective, I re-read Kapital and realised I needed to sort my shit out.


----------



## Sue (Dec 28, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


>


There was the clinching the anarchist one the other week and all. ✊


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2021)

Desperate to regain the lost territories of my forefathers, and buoyed in the righteousness of my cause by painstaking research on Ancestry.com confirming my descent from the last Anglo-Saxon ealdorman, I launched an all-out assault by fire and sword on the perfidious usurpers who style themselves "Hemel Hempstead Borough Council" sparing none from the wrath of my bloody vengeance, nay, not even temporary clerical staff. Let the blood eagle stand as token of my deadly earnest.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 28, 2021)

JimW said:


> Desperate to regain the lost territories of my forefathers, and buoyed in the righteousness of my cause by painstaking research on Ancestry.com confirming my descent from the last Anglo-Saxon ealdorman, I launched an all-out assault by fire and sword on the perfidious usurpers who style themselves "Hemel Hempstead Borough Council" sparing none from the wrath of my bloody vengeance, nay, not even temporary clerical staff. Let the blood eagle stand as token of my deadly earnest.


If only starmer had this kind of drive, passion and  general enthusiasm for bloody slaughter.


----------



## quiet guy (Dec 28, 2021)

He'd have to have market research compiled, focus groups, take soundings from local party members and then he'd still fuck up.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 28, 2021)

quiet guy said:


> He'd have to have market research compiled, focus groups, take soundings from local party members and then he'd still fuck up.



I can see the Sun headline now as his rampage fails to get started - "Ghengis Khant!"


----------



## Rob Ray (Dec 29, 2021)

*Starmer*: "I would like to assure the public that I am a sensible leader, unlike my honourable opponents. That is why I am announcing that I will be joining in with the Prime Minister's razing of Southend, and I pledge that if you follow me I will carry out a more fair and efficient orgy of wanton destruction than Mr Johnson."

*Southend citizen:* "Can we not raze the town? I sort of live here."

*Starmer:* "You were observed talking to a socialist last January and are hereby suspended indefinitely from the party. Liz Kendall will be along shortly to defecate on your linens and burn your house down. I don't know why she does the linens thing first, seems unnecessary but that's Liz for you. Also I don't remember authorising party members to attend this speech."


----------



## brogdale (Dec 29, 2021)

What are the chances of so many different businesses of varying scale all 'losing' exactly the same precise sum?


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 29, 2021)

brogdale said:


> What are the chances of so many different businesses of varying scale all 'losing' exactly the same precise sum?
> 
> View attachment 303618


I find that figure very low, to be honest.


----------



## 8ball (Dec 29, 2021)

brogdale said:


> What are the chances of so many different businesses of varying scale all 'losing' exactly the same precise sum?
> 
> View attachment 303618



I'm going to guess some sums were done in the interests of simplifying the headline.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 30, 2021)

8ball said:


> I'm going to guess some sums were done in the interests of simplifying the headline.


And they're inaccurate and inexact, too 









						Bars and restaurants face New Year disaster after losing £10,335 each at Christmas
					

Losses in one week far greater than maximum support offered by government




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## 8ball (Dec 30, 2021)

two sheds said:


> And they're inaccurate and inexact, too
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Am on holiday for the next few hours. Sums can wait til 9am.


----------



## Sue (Dec 30, 2021)

My winter of love: I was on holiday with my boyfriend – and the B&B owner told me a horrifying home truth​


Spoiler: Horrifying home truth



He sidled up to me as I was helping myself to some more spiced nuts. “Honey,” he said, “he is never going to marry you. Never.”













						My winter of love: I was on holiday with my boyfriend – and the B&B owner told me a horrifying home truth
					

We went for walks, marvelled at the views, saw baby eagles and had a lot of sex. But as the proprietor of the guest house could tell, not all was well between us




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## hash tag (Dec 30, 2021)

Sue said:


> My winter of love: I was on holiday with my boyfriend – and the B&B owner told me a horrifying home truth​
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Horrifying home truth
> ...


After all that sex as well. Goes to show, all men are bastards


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 30, 2021)

A home truth, yes, but horrifying? No.


----------



## Sue (Dec 30, 2021)

hash tag said:


> After all that sex as well. Goes to show, all men are bastards


Well no, not at all . Shows that she needs to expand her definition of 'horrifying' and stop getting so hung up on the marriage thing 🤷‍♀️.

Eta Saying that, possibly down to the sub-editor getting carried away.


----------



## Sue (Dec 30, 2021)

Oops dp


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 31, 2021)

Northumbria not having existed for nearly twelve centuries. Almost like they don’t keep up to speed with things in the north.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 31, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> Northumbria not having existed for nearly twelve centuries. Almost like they don’t keep up to speed with things in the north.
> View attachment 303854


Yet there is an NHS Foundation trust named Northumbria Northumbria Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust and it was at one of this trust's hospitals the incident occurred. So arguably they were wrong to correct


----------



## JimW (Dec 31, 2021)

I nibbled his spicy nuts but he still won't marry me.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 2, 2022)

Still publishing this charlatan:





						Your attention didn’t collapse. It was stolen | Psychology | The Guardian
					

Social media and many other facets of modern life are destroying our ability to concentrate. We need to reclaim our minds while we still can




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 3, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Still publishing this charlatan:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And I don't think reading a book by Johann Hari would be top of my list of things to do to fix any focus issues that I might have.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And I don't think reading a book by Johann Hari would be top of my list of things to do to fix any focus issues that I might have.


exacty - tl;dr innit


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 3, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> exacty - tl;dr innit


Yeah, could not be arsed finishing whatever he was drivelling on about, there was just so much ME ME ME ME ME


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 3, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Yeah, could not be arsed finishing whatever he was drivelling on about, there was just so much ME ME ME ME ME


116 instances of the word 'I' in a 'science' article.
I don't know why he does this. Does he fancy himself as some sort of gonzo journalist or did he only listen to one lecture at journalism about humanising a story? That whole made up preface was utterly superfluous - the whole world knows that the internet has ruined many an attention span among us. He could have saved himself the bother with one small paragraph pointing this out, then gone straight into the science bits. Even then, why does he insist on saying 'I spoke to Dr Hfuhruhurr of Oxbridge University and he told me....' rather than 'Dr Uumellmahaye of Camford Institute says...'?


----------



## metalguru (Jan 3, 2022)

It's ironic that he's writing about attention span, as his style is a bit like an Adam Curtis documentary - "Meanwhile at exactly the same time, on the other side of the world,  a brilliant scientist had made an amazing discovery which he believed....'- dashing from point to point and losing the overall narrative,


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 3, 2022)

Who is this Johann Harri and what's his story? I've not heard of him


----------



## campanula (Jan 3, 2022)

a plagiarist and raging self-publicist. Wanker.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 3, 2022)

campanula said:


> a plagiarist and raging self-publicist. Wanker.



This basically. Flounced from journalism after being caught plagiarising and sock-puppeting. Now makes a living as a sort of bargain basement Malcolm Gladwell figure, repackaging and sensationalising other people's far more interesting work.


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Flounced from journalism


he was very keen to continue with his journalism work - and his employers were keen to let him - until it became clear that was untenable, at least until he'd buggered off for a while.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 3, 2022)

It's an incredibly one-dimensional, neuroscientific view of attention in any case.  And this is because he doesn't know what he's really talking about.  On the plus side, he goes and talks to some people who _do_ know what they are talking about.  But on the negative side, he then presents those peoples' perspectives as if this is the whole picture.  It isn't the whole picture, though. He is essentially peeking into a room through a keyhole and claiming the things he can see are the only things in the room.  The entire part of the room that relates to what we mean by attention, what the function of attention is, what is culturally expected from it and us, how these things can be alternatively represented -- all invisible.


----------



## flypanam (Jan 12, 2022)

Novelist and head hunted academic is wracked by self doubt. Goes on holiday to Paris, can’t get into a museum because its Monday buys silver thingy, feels better.









						A moment that changed me: I was crippled by negative thoughts – then I bought a silver bracelet
					

My self-esteem was at rock bottom, but on a break from my academic job I found myself in Paris. As I wandered through the city, an impulse buy gave me hope I could value myself again




					www.theguardian.com
				









Dunno why they don’t ask a mum on UC how they feel?


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 13, 2022)

Adrian Chiles always is low-hanging fruit for this thread, but "I don't know how councils or Google work, someone do my job for me please" is a particularly good one.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jan 13, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Adrian Chiles always is low-hanging fruit for this thread, but "I don't know how councils or Google work, someone do my job for me please" is a particularly good one.


I think that's one of his more substantial pieces. Local 'democracy' is in fact totally inpenetrable to the uninitiated.


----------



## Sue (Jan 13, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Adrian Chiles always is low-hanging fruit for this thread, but "I don't know how councils or Google work, someone do my job for me please" is a particularly good one.


Wonder how much he gets paid for it? I mean I'm sure I could knock out a couple of insubstantial and pointless paragraphs for a fee. (I mean look at all the practice I've had on here...)


----------



## stavros (Jan 13, 2022)

Sue said:


> I mean I'm sure I could knock out a couple of insubstantial and pointless paragraphs for a fee.


Doing bollocksy broadsheet columns can get you to be Prime Minister.


----------



## teqniq (Jan 16, 2022)

Lol:


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

Bloke was a tory MP.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 21, 2022)

I thought that read defecation for a second


----------



## brogdale (Jan 23, 2022)




----------



## billy_bob (Jan 24, 2022)

So now you know.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 24, 2022)

My two avocado plants are doing really nicely, must be three or four years old now - have I mentioned them?


----------



## rekil (Jan 24, 2022)

Semi puff piece on Rishi Sunak complete with pics that hide his tinyness - "committed to balancing the books" and all that guff.









						Rishi Sunak: the polished ‘tech bro’ with low-tax dreams
					

With Britain facing a cost of living crisis, is it time for one of its wealthiest ever prime ministers?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 25, 2022)

FFS.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 25, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> FFS.




Whilst sitting on a cash pile of a billion quid. A purportedly socialist newspaper.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Whilst sitting on a cash pile of a billion quid. A purportedly socialist newspaper.



Purported by whom, exactly?


----------



## Sue (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Whilst sitting on a cash pile of a billion quid.* A purportedly socialist newspaper.*


It is?


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Whilst sitting on a cash pile of a billion quid. A purportedly socialist newspaper.


Go on, tell us, what in your view makes the Guardian a 'purportedly socialist newspaper'? I wouldn't think anyone could ever describe it as such, and I'm pretty sure the Guardian editors, owners, shareholders, etc would have a collective fucking coronary at such a suggestion.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Whilst sitting on a cash pile of a billion quid. A purportedly socialist newspaper.


i think you'll find it's always called itself a liberal newspaper.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2022)

This is 'socialist' as in 'it's not as right wing as me and I don't like it' - the everyday sense, rather than the one with any meaning.


----------



## Sue (Jan 25, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> This is 'socialist' as in 'it's not as right wing as me and I don't like it' - the everyday sense, rather than the one with any meaning.


You're obviously one of those pinko Commie types with your PDFs and suchlike. 😡


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2022)

Sue said:


> You're obviously one of those pinko Commie types with your PDFs and suchlike. 😡



I even eat Red Leicester.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you'll find it's always called itself a liberal newspaper.



They always do when they want to shaft the workers.


----------



## killer b (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> They always do when they want to shaft the workers.


They do the rest of the time too. Their founding principle was the defence of the liberal tradition iirc


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> They always do when they want to shaft the workers.



What are you on about? You said they were purportedly socialist five minutes ago. These words have meanings, you know: you can't just use them entirely at random.


----------



## killer b (Jan 25, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What are you on about? You said they were purportedly socialist five minutes ago. These words have meanings, you know: you can't just use them entirely at random.


you've met sas before yeah?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 25, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What are you on about? You said they were purportedly socialist five minutes ago. These words have meanings, you know: you can't just use them entirely at random.


 What part of 'purported' is alien to you?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 25, 2022)

I've never really regarded the Guardian as left wing, faux left wing, but not really.

When you have a restaurant critic who advocates eating at place where a meal cost about a weeks worth of minimum wage, it ain't a publication for the working man. I like Jay Rayner's writing, he was a wonderful turn of phrase, but the places he reviews are expensive.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I've never really regarded the Guardian as left wing, faux left wing, but not really.
> 
> When you have a restaurant critic who advocates eating at place where a meal cost about a weeks worth of minimum wage, it ain't a publication for the working man. I like Jay Rayner's writing, he was a wonderful turn of phrase, but the places he reviews are expensive.


you should read grace dent's reviews


----------



## killer b (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I've never really regarded the Guardian as left wing, faux left wing, but not really.
> 
> When you have a restaurant critic who advocates eating at place where a meal cost about a weeks worth of minimum wage, it ain't a publication for the working man. I like Jay Rayner's writing, he was a wonderful turn of phrase, but the places he reviews are expensive.


who purports it to be a socialist organ?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 25, 2022)

killer b said:


> who purports it to be a socialist organ?



They do. Never heard of Owen Jones? John Harris?


----------



## YouSir (Jan 25, 2022)

killer b said:


> who purports it to be a socialist organ?



People who spend too much time playing with their own.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> you should read grace dent's reviews




I do, her style is completely different.


----------



## killer b (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> They do. Never heard of Owen Jones? John Harris?


Do Owen Jones and John Harris think the graun is a socialist publication? I've read plenty by both of them but never encountered this claim from them - maybe you could link me up.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jan 25, 2022)

killer b said:


> Do Owen Jones and John Harris think the graun is a socialist publication? I've read plenty by both of them but never encountered this claim from them - maybe you could link me up.


Whatever. Go try and wind up someone else.


----------



## killer b (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Whatever. Go try and wind up someone else.


I'm not trying to wind you up, I'm just interested where these claims that the guardian is a socialist newspaper have been made - it's not something I've ever seen except from mad tories & fascists.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Whatever. Go try and wind up someone else.



I don’t see that it was an unreasonable request.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

A newspaper with socialists in it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> A newspaper with socialists in it.


Never, it will no doubt lead to the end of civilisation as we know it!


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jan 25, 2022)

Marxist rag . They must know it's a parody account?


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Marxist rag . They must know it's a parody account?



I see they have now added the word ‘spoof’ before the word ‘former’


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 25, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> What part of 'purported' is alien to you?



No part. killer b 's right - in order for something to be purported, someone has to do the purporting. If you're not able to say who did the purporting you're ... er ... reporting, then it's just a mealy-mouthed way of calling the Guardian 'socialist' yourself while pretending that you're not so that you don't have to defend the claim.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 25, 2022)

killer b said:


> Do Owen Jones and John Harris think the graun is a socialist publication? I've read plenty by both of them but never encountered this claim from them - maybe you could link me up.


I've seen that Owen Jones on BBC as well


----------



## kabbes (Jan 25, 2022)

I guess that also makes The New Statesman socialist, because he writes for that too. Also, he used to write for that well-known socialist newspaper The Independent


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 25, 2022)

The Guardian: socialist  
The BBC: socialist
Channel 4 News: socialist 
The Independent: socialist
Daily Mirror: socialist 
The Sun: socialist (well it did use to be the Daily Herald)
The Times: socialist 
GB News: (national) socialist

Sasaferrato you're a steaming great pudding sometimes


----------



## 8ball (Jan 26, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> GB News: (national) socialist



Some of the rants to camera are right out of V for Vendetta.  Then sometimes they have people on that well off message (Don McLean was one lovely example).
I think it’s the rants to camera that the backers are paying for, though.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 26, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> GB News: (national) socialist



I have encountered people (not here, I don't think) who dismissed the BNP as 'left wing' - presume because of the socialist bits of their national socialist agenda (from memory, think they were pro pensions / NHS for people they considered british)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2022)

I've started having an allergic reaction just _reading the title_ of Marina Hyde columns now. I thought I could avoid issues by simply not reading the columns but no.

All you need is the title, no byline necessary... e.g. "Boris Johnson has finally gone full Marie Antoinette – only he’s hogging all the cake" could only be by one person.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 26, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I have encountered people (not here, I don't think) who dismissed the BNP as 'left wing' - presume because of the socialist bits of their national socialist agenda (from memory, think they were pro pensions / NHS for people they considered british)



US 'Conservatives' commonly describe the Nazis as left wing.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 26, 2022)

8ball said:


> US 'Conservatives' commonly describe the Nazis as left wing.


Probably because there are many who cannot differentiate between Socialists and National Socialists. That tricksy Hitler.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 26, 2022)

Sprocket. said:


> Probably because there are many who cannot differentiate between Socialists and National Socialists. That tricksy Hitler.



Yeah, little more than the s-word going on a lot of the time, but sometimes they apply tortuous reasoning.


----------



## rekil (Jan 26, 2022)

Sprocket. said:


> Probably because there are many who cannot differentiate between Socialists and National Socialists. That tricksy Hitler.



Exhibit a)




			
				Morrissey said:
			
		

> “As far as racism goes, the modern Loony Left seem to forget that Hitler was Left wing,”



What a chump. For someone who has spent his life boasting about how he 'swam in books', he is a phenomenal ignoramus.


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 26, 2022)

rekil said:


> Exhibit a)
> 
> 
> 
> What a chump. For someone who has spent his life boasting about how he 'swam in books', he is a phenomenal ignoramus.



And as the judge said during the Joyce trial, 'devious, truculent and unreliable'. It's hard to disentangle what he's saying out of genuine bigotry and what's contrarian posing, but really, who cares enough to try.


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2022)

Yuck.

Super-prime mover: Britain’s most successful estate agent


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 27, 2022)

Adrian Chiles: I spoke to a racist in a car park. Will this do?


----------



## billy_bob (Jan 28, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Adrian Chiles: I spoke to a racist in a car park. Will this do?



That's actually pretty content-heavy by his standards.


----------



## Flavour (Jan 29, 2022)

My Spotify playlists tell the story of my life – can I really quit now? | Sarah Ann Harris
					

The Neil Young and Joe Rogan row may be the final straw for some, but many music lovers like me are in a dilemma, asks Sarah Ann Harris, the Guardian’s deputy audience editor




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Sprocket. (Jan 29, 2022)

Flavour said:


> My Spotify playlists tell the story of my life – can I really quit now? | Sarah Ann Harris
> 
> 
> The Neil Young and Joe Rogan row may be the final straw for some, but many music lovers like me are in a dilemma, asks Sarah Ann Harris, the Guardian’s deputy audience editor
> ...


As anyone with principles can tell her there is always a price to pay.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 29, 2022)

Adrian Chiles: I used my left hand to wank today. What's the big deal?


----------



## Flavour (Jan 29, 2022)

It's almost as if there was a downside to paying a company a monthly subscription for temporary, internet-enabled access to creative content as opposed to, you know, buying and owning physical copies of media.


----------



## strung out (Jan 29, 2022)

To be fair, I don't want physical copies of most media.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 29, 2022)

half agree but they're going to be stored somewhere on physical media - hard disk or ssd or something.


----------



## strung out (Jan 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> half agree but they're going to be stored somewhere on physical media - hard disk or ssd or something.


They don't have to be, or at least, not any physical media stored in my home. 

I don't want CDs, DVDs, vinyls, blu rays, HDDs or SSDs with media on in my house. I just want a reliable way of accessing stuff online through the cloud.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 29, 2022)

agree with the first four. They take up such small space on the last two though that I don't mind, and prefer to have them on my computer(s). They get stored in RAM anyway while you're playing them


----------



## Flavour (Jan 29, 2022)

strung out said:


> They don't have to be, or at least, not any physical media stored in my home.
> 
> I don't want CDs, DVDs, vinyls, blu rays, HDDs or SSDs with media on in my house. I just want a reliable way of accessing stuff online through the cloud.



you don't own the cloud and the companies you intrinsically trust with this data are subject to corporate whims


----------



## strung out (Jan 29, 2022)

Flavour said:


> you don't own the cloud and the companies you intrinsically trust with this data are subject to corporate whims


Yes, but I've got far more storage space available on my shelves now, and I can play stuff from any room or device in the house.


----------



## Flavour (Jan 29, 2022)

strung out said:


> I can play stuff from any room or device in the house.


so can I   just need a portable bluetooth speaker. anyway, enough derailing. it's a shit article


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 29, 2022)

Flavour said:


> so can I   just need a portable bluetooth speaker. anyway, enough derailing. it's a shit article


even for the guardian.


----------



## strung out (Jan 29, 2022)

Flavour said:


> so can I   just need a portable bluetooth speaker. anyway, enough derailing. it's a shit article


Presumably you still need to actually go to the room with the physical media in and put it on though.

Far easier to pay a company to do it for you and allow you just to press play from anywhere.

My point I guess is that it's a bit of a dead end to blame consumers for not wanting to continue using archaic formats.

Not denying that Spotify and other similar companies are shit mind.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 30, 2022)

Small talk, eh

_she said remote working does not allow it to occur in the same way in the “in-between moments” that come from physical proximity in between meetings, in corridors, at lunch or at coffee machines.

“So suddenly there are no opportunities to have that serendipity that normally happens,” she said.

Almuth McDowall, professor and assistant dean of organisational psychology at Birkbeck, University of London and associate fellow of the British Psychological Society, said small talk “humanises our work existence” and provides a space for idea exchange and creativity.

The return to workplaces is an opportunity to re-evaluate its purpose, she said. “Let’s rethink what the office is for – a place to find meaning, connection and a shared purpose.”_

Covid got your tongue? How to relearn the lost art of office small talk


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2022)

Let's rethink what the office is for - a place to take the piss out of management propaganda, a place to heckle and subvert, a place where we can make observations about who are the guards and who are the prisoners.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 30, 2022)

elbows said:


> Let's rethink what the office is for - a place to take the piss out of management propaganda, a place to heckle and subvert, a place where we can make observations about who are the guards and who are the prisoners.


A place to use the printer, liberate stationery, borrow the WiFi


----------



## brogdale (Jan 30, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> A place to use the printer, liberate stationery, borrow the WiFi


The only thing about work that I miss...mind you, I'd been gone a few years before my liberated supplies dwindled!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 30, 2022)

Imagine the huge effects on the office supplies sector if businesses only ever ordered as much as they actually needed for business purposes


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jan 30, 2022)

Last month? I must of missed that one.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 8, 2022)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've started having an allergic reaction just _reading the title_ of Marina Hyde columns now. I thought I could avoid issues by simply not reading the columns but no.
> 
> All you need is the title, no byline necessary... e.g. "Boris Johnson has finally gone full Marie Antoinette – only he’s hogging all the cake" could only be by one person.


"A reboot at No 10? You might as well try to reboot the reactor at Chernobyl"

I wonder who wrote that.

PS at the bottom


> *An evening with Marina Hyde and John Crace* Join Marina Hyde and John Crace looking back at the latest events in Westminster on Monday, 7 March, at 8pm GMT


If there was one columnist whose titles could at times be confused with Hyde's, it would be Crace.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Feb 9, 2022)

Sue said:


> Wonder how much he gets paid for it? I mean I'm sure I could knock out a couple of insubstantial and pointless paragraphs for a fee. (I mean look at all the practice I've had on here...)


Is he not the amour of Katherine Viner? Work it out...


----------



## Sue (Feb 9, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> A place to use the printer, liberate stationery, borrow the WiFi


...keep warm (specially pertinent at the moment) and drink their coffee...


----------



## Sue (Feb 9, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> Is he not the amour of Katherine Viner? Work it out...


Tbf not everyone churning this kind of bilge out and getting it published in the Guardian can be going out with its editor...


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Feb 9, 2022)

Sue said:


> Tbf not everyone churning this kind of bilge out and getting it published in the Guardian can be going out with its editor...


No, a lot of them went to public school...


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 9, 2022)

Sorry, normal critical service will resume in a minute but I just want to say that the thought of this poor Guardian reader cuckolded by a phalanx of knob robots he himself paid for is fucking funny.


----------



## ouirdeaux (Feb 9, 2022)

There's always a suspicion that the many of the letters to agony aunts are invented, and this is a pretty good case. It just doesn't ring true to me.  A line like _I’m all for democratising the orgasm, but am I even needed in the bedroom any more? _doesn't sound like something someone would write to a problem page.

I might be wrong. I often am, and have no experience of writing or answering letters to agony aunts.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 9, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> A line like _I’m all for democratising the orgasm, but am I even needed in the bedroom any more? _doesn't sound like something someone would write to a problem page.



Not any regular person writing to a tabloid problem page maybe, but it sounds fairly authentic in the voice of a Guardian-reading man - or at least the Viz-style stereotype of one.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2022)

ouirdeaux said:


> There's always a suspicion that the many of the letters to agony aunts are invented, and this is a pretty good case. It just doesn't ring true to me.  A line like _I’m all for democratising the orgasm, but am I even needed in the bedroom any more? _doesn't sound like something someone would write to a problem page.
> 
> I might be wrong. I often am, and have no experience of writing or answering letters to agony aunts.


now that he's out of politics, alistair campbell is once more writing about sex, this time in the guardian

the guardian now largely fills the space which in years gone by was taken by forum


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 28, 2022)

Wills and trusts: how to plan your finances for when you’re gone
					

All you need to do – from writing a will to inheritance tax and insurance




					www.theguardian.com
				




happy monday everyone


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 28, 2022)

What’s the red circle for, Pickman's model ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> What’s the red circle for, Pickman's model ?


Date and time. Obvs gaming the taxman over wills us a Monday morning must


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 1, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Date and time. Obvs gaming the taxman over wills us a Monday morning must


Still confused. What’s significant about the date?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Still confused. What’s significant about the date?


look at the post again. it is about death and leaving stuff to people. and the caption 'happy monday' might i have thought conveyed why i put it in the guardian down pan thread. the clues are all there.


----------



## belboid (Mar 1, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> look at the post again. it is about death and leaving stuff to people. and the caption 'happy monday' might i have thought conveyed why i put it in the guardian down pan thread. the clues are all there.


So there should be no talk of depressing stuff on Mondays?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 1, 2022)

belboid said:


> So there should be no talk of depressing stuff on Mondays?


in the current climate i think that would be for the best especially as mondays are depressing enough anyway


----------



## ska invita (Mar 9, 2022)

Proof critics chat shit for a living:











						Damien Hirst review – just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water
					

Shark tanks, cow’s heads, feasting flies and pill bottles … Hirst’s death-obsessed early work hits home just as hard now disease is all around us




					www.theguardian.com
				




then 16 months later











						‘This is art for the penthouses of oligarchs’ – Damien Hirst: Natural History review
					

The artist’s progress from raw young punk to pretentious money-lover is on show in this collection of formaldehyde works. Even the shark is getting very shrunken around the mouth




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Mar 9, 2022)

Jonathan Jones has always been awful. The Stuckists know all about him.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 9, 2022)

What does he know about art? Look at his hair. Look at his shirt.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 9, 2022)

I read this article which is about efforts to get magic mushrooms reclassified:





						Demand grows for UK ministers to reclassify psilocybin for medical research | Medical research | The Guardian
					

People suffering debilitating cluster headaches say the active ingredient in magic mushrooms is a help




					amp.theguardian.com
				



Crispin Blunt is one of the MPs advocating this and this is the photo of him they chose to accompany the article:


----------



## BristolEcho (Mar 10, 2022)

This article is weird. 









						Dining across the divide: ‘I didn’t really know what an anarchist would be like. Now I know!’
					

Can a socialist find common ground with someone who doesn’t believe in government?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 10, 2022)

BristolEcho said:


> This article is weird.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Olly's probably on these boards. Maybe he can pop in and explain it.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 10, 2022)

Some solid Graunification here:



> ...Page, 63, tried to bargain down the price for a sexual encounter with a 12-year-old girl aged 12 and a 13-year-old boy of 13...











						Former Radio 1 DJ Mark Page jailed for child sex offences in Philippines
					

Page, 63, sentenced to 12 years after being found guilty of arranging to abuse children as young as 12




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## NoXion (Mar 10, 2022)

I for one cannot wait for more extremely well-edited pieces from that Guardian newspaper of Guardian of newspaper.


----------



## Cerv (Mar 10, 2022)

At least the numbers matched. 
Not a 12 year old aged 13 & vice versa


----------



## Sue (Mar 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Olly's probably on these boards. Maybe he can pop in and explain it.



I think the ellipsis here is a bit weird... 



> He’s married to a Japanese woman so, you know, he’s not racist …


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Olly's probably on these boards. Maybe he can pop in and explain it.


If he isn't he should join, he'd fit like a glove on here 




> Why stop at racism and slavery? Coming to it as an artist, there’s a lot of public art I’d like to see torn down – like that terrible statue of lovers embracing in the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras in London. That’s the first to go.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 10, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> If he isn't he should join, he'd fit like a glove on here











						✂️ Bop-bop-bop-bop-bop BOP sample from 'Fight EP' by One By One
					

22 seconds · Clipped by Bristle KRS · Original video "One By One - Fight EP" by MikeyRemembers




					youtube.com


----------



## stavros (Mar 10, 2022)

This, about Manchester United since the departure of Alex Ferguson, is a load of waffle. To be concise, it's saying they haven't been quite as successful since the most successful manager in British club history left.


----------



## belboid (Mar 10, 2022)

stavros said:


> This, about Manchester United since the departure of Alex Ferguson, is a load of waffle. To be concise, it's saying they haven't been quite as successful since the most successful manager in British club history left.


gotta appreciate how it's only three days after they ran this piece on how 'Man U are shit now' articles have virtually eaten themselves









						Manchester United being bad is now its own self-sustaining media industry | Barney Ronay
					

A poor team, poorly run with no direction. Even pundits are struggling to stay fascinated by a club’s perpetual non-success




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## gosub (Mar 20, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2022)

Russian invaders have three days of supplies left, says Ukraine military
					

Ukrainian commanders say fuel, food and ammunition in short supply after breakdown in Russian supply chains




					www.theguardian.com
				




Whatever else may be going wrong for the Russians I doubt a lack of warm weather gear has any impact on the incidence of frostbite. Unless they've no gear at all


----------



## bluescreen (Mar 27, 2022)

None of us would have any idea how to behave without articles like this. 








						‘Don’t be a table-hogger’: Debrett’s issues guide for working from a cafe
					

With the rise of hybrid working, the etiquette bible has spelled out the cardinal rules for digital nomads




					www.theguardian.com
				



And journos would have to do their own research.


----------



## D'wards (Apr 1, 2022)

Absolute sneery cunts. Why write an obituary like this? Are they trying to prove they are above pop culture or something? 









						Tom Parker obituary
					

Low-key, witty singer of the Wanted who found a post-boyband career in reality TV and the vlogosphere




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## planetgeli (Apr 3, 2022)

*Some rich Tories are really rich shock!*

Or did I miss something in this pointless article currently high on the front page of the website?









						Sunaks’ £5m Santa Monica flat offers sun, sea … and a pet spa
					

Penthouse owned by the chancellor’s wife, Akshata Murthy, will reportedly be the venue for couple’s Easter getaway




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## gosub (Apr 3, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> *Some rich Tories are really rich shock!*
> 
> Or did I miss something in this pointless article currently high on the front page of the website?
> 
> ...


Its to reinforce the US and them between their readership and the Tories as well as showing how profligate the bloke is...Imagine spending 5mil on a holiday home in somewhere that isn't Tuscany


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 3, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Absolute sneery cunts. Why write an obituary like this? Are they trying to prove they are above pop culture or something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is very snidely written. I could understand a usual dull Guardian article written that way, but that tone has no place in any obituary. For shame, Guardian.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Apr 7, 2022)

Another quality article from Adrian Chiles








						Having a quiet drink, I eyed a group of lads nervously … and then I saw their manbags | Adrian Chiles
					

The Staffordshire posse were trying hard to exude menace. I found them rather sweet, writes Guardian columnist Adrian Chiles




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## rekil (Apr 7, 2022)

> It’s hard to place her class, because her upbringing was fluid – she’d be at boarding school in the term, and then spend the holidays at Butlin’s, where her mother had a concession.
> 
> Her early years were precarious, but in her early 20s she joined her family’s thriving holiday park business, which she later bought from her parents for undisclosed millions.



Load of old fawning shit about exceptionally dull bizznisssperson.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 7, 2022)

rekil said:


> Load of old fawning shit about exceptionally dull bizznisssperson.


Are the phrases _trailer magnate_ or _caravan tycoon_ ever used?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 8, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> Another quality article from Adrian Chiles
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Christ they'll be giving Teuchter his own column next.


----------



## rubbershoes (Apr 8, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> Another quality article from Adrian Chiles
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The one good thing about Adrian Chiles' pieces is that they are very short


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 8, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> Another quality article from Adrian Chiles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


see, i read that, on the basis of understanding that he had probably had a run in with a bunch of lads in a pub. And rather than front it and probably get some aggro thrown at him. He decides to write about it, safe in the knowledge that they probably don't read the guardian and he can get it off his chest. And it was 5 days ago so they probably forgot about it. "oi Daz, what was that bloke who was in the pub the other day?"


----------



## killer b (Apr 8, 2022)

I'm with strung out , Chiles is great - he's stealing a living and he doesn't care you know. His columns are almost psychedelic in their lack of effort


----------



## Indeliblelink (Apr 8, 2022)

I think he's working towards some sort of journalistic equivalent of John Cage's 4'33”.


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 8, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> see, i read that, on the basis of understanding that he had probably had a run in with a bunch of lads in a pub. And rather than front it and probably get some aggro thrown at him. He decides to write about it, safe in the knowledge that they probably don't read the guardian and he can get it off his chest. And it was 5 days ago so they probably forgot about it. "oi Daz, what was that bloke who was in the pub the other day?"


All his columns are like this, it's insane (and inane).


----------



## rubbershoes (Apr 8, 2022)

Don't know how long his contract will the Guardian is, but I can't imagine they'll renew it


----------



## killer b (Apr 8, 2022)

he's banging the editor so I imagine he's got his column as long as that's going on. I think he gets a lot of engagement too - he's always in the 'most read' bit.


----------



## rutabowa (Apr 8, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> I think he's working towards some sort of journalistic equivalent of John Cage's 4'33”.


I think it is more like DIY punk, you read it and think "I can do that "....  then everyone who reads it starts writing their own mundane weekly column.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Apr 8, 2022)

I guess Ryan Gilbey should of checked the trailer they embedded in his article.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2022)

D'wards said:


> Absolute sneery cunts. Why write an obituary like this? Are they trying to prove they are above pop culture or something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



By the time I read it they had felt the need to fuck around with it a bit:



> This article was amended on 8 April 2022 to include details of Tom Parker’s campaigning and fundraising work for brain cancer research. Some revisions and additions were also made to better reflect the success of his band, The Wanted.


----------



## Santino (Apr 9, 2022)

Very easy to imagine some hack thinking they'll make name for themselves writing snide, acerbic obituaries that pull no punches. Like Charlie Brooker but with dead people instead of TV.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2022)

Well part of the problem is a broader problem with 'music journalism', a genre of writing I have long gone out of my way to avoid. Because its often facile, tribal, lazy and confrontational. There are obviously some good writers on the subject, but no shortage of shit ones.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2022)

Take for example this piece on Brian Eno from 2017 that I had the misfortune to read recently. This sort of piece seems to become a competition between the self-indulgence of the artist and that of the interviewer.









						Brian Eno: ‘We’ve been in decline for 40 years – Trump is a chance to rethink'
					

The revered producer has been at the centre of pop since the days of Roxy Music. But don’t ask him about the past – he’s more interested in how to reorder society




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## D'wards (Apr 9, 2022)

The same writer has form for snide negative obituaries 









						Sarah Harding obituary
					

Girls Aloud singer who later wrote a memoir about her rackety life as a pop star and her cancer diagnosis




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 9, 2022)

I think that's a pretty shitty thing to do, write such snide obituaries.


----------



## Serene (Apr 13, 2022)

Are your problems middle-class enough?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 13, 2022)

D'wards said:


> The same writer has form for snide negative obituaries
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wait, Sarah Harding is dead?


----------



## Serene (Apr 13, 2022)

Serene said:


> Are your problems middle-class enough?


To clarify, my post is in reply to why the guardian is going down the pan, and not any recent posts, such as today or Saturday. Thank you.


----------



## Serene (Apr 13, 2022)

RIP Sarah Harding, a wonderful, talented and brave Lady.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 14, 2022)

National Union of Students to be investigated for antisemitism
					

Student body announces move after complaints from students, former NUS presidents and politicians




					www.theguardian.com
				




This one. A picture of lowkey in the top of the article that doesn’t mention him. 
Because anti semitism. Because of his vocal pro Palestine stance.


----------



## B.I.G (Apr 14, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> National Union of Students to be investigated for antisemitism
> 
> 
> Student body announces move after complaints from students, former NUS presidents and politicians
> ...



It mentions him (now?).


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 14, 2022)

earlier when I viewed the article there was no footer to the picture.


----------



## B.I.G (Apr 14, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> earlier when I viewed the article there was no footer to the picture.



Its in the article as well. Last edited yesterday at 8.30. Probably when they added it in then.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 14, 2022)

Ok Thanks. I’m not going mad


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 14, 2022)

Or they’re reading this thread 😂


----------



## TopCat (Apr 14, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Or they’re reading this thread 😂


I have noticed that terrible articles get relegated after being ridiculed here.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 14, 2022)

Good to know we have an effect.

 I was rather annoyed that my 900 or so articles read in the past year got reset. 
A woeful underestimate. 
Am now even more determined not to register.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 14, 2022)

TopCat said:


> I have noticed that terrible articles get relegated after being ridiculed here.


I hope they're making donations to the server fund because I wouldn't like to think they're using us for quality control for free


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 14, 2022)

@guardian guest account - actually, can I please be credited in future when I spot the bias in your articles and you rush to correct them? Saves me the bother of thinking I am going insane.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 15, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Good to know we have an effect.
> 
> I was rather annoyed that my 900 or so articles read in the past year got reset.
> A woeful underestimate.
> Am now even more determined not to register.



I see that pop-up as a little victory every few days when I check in on the site. Haven't got it up to five figures in a year yet but imagine the sense of achievement ...


----------



## killer b (Apr 21, 2022)

Chiles today is brilliant. 









						I have a urinal in my flat and it has changed my life – so why are people appalled? | Adrian Chiles
					

Some have been known to retch at the sight of it, but I am a great enthusiast for urinals in the home. Mine has pride of place beneath the West Brom crest, writes Adrian Chiles




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 21, 2022)

“I am reminded of the urinal in my flat” whilst you're talking pish?
Having a urinal in your front room is not a quirky character trait.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> Chiles today is brilliant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


teuchter


----------



## rekil (Apr 21, 2022)

He's going to put a novel out. 'A cross between Richard Osman and Scarlett Moffatt's autobiography.'


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 21, 2022)

My concern is that he's now aware of the status of his columns and when memes become self-aware things don't tend to work. We shall see.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 21, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> “I am reminded of the urinal in my flat” whilst you're talking pish?
> Having a urinal in your front room is not a quirky character trait.



There's a postage stamp-sized picture of it there, it doesn't look like it's in a front room. Too small.


----------



## Serene (Apr 21, 2022)

Full of stories such as how to have a soy-based Halloween, or a supposedly amusing account of buying a wood burner by an incredibly middle-class freelancer.


----------



## killer b (Apr 21, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> My concern is that he's now aware of the status of his columns and when memes become self-aware things don't tend to work. We shall see.


he's been aware for ages - he can read twitter as well as anyone else can.


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> he's been aware for ages - he can read twitter as well as anyone else can.


Fair. And he's had ample opportunity to get better and that hasn't happened so there's that.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Apr 21, 2022)

NoXion said:


> There's a postage stamp-sized picture of it there, it doesn't look like it's in a front room. Too small.


I was reading on a phone. Sat on my normal toilet. Skim read it, in Adrian Chiles voice - imagining him chortling about it at a dinner party he's thrown. To celebrate something boring football happening.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> teuchter


Are you requesting comment/analysis?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 21, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Are you requesting comment/analysis?


Triggering a drone strike


----------



## rekil (Apr 22, 2022)

TV tonight: she’s dead but doesn’t know it – a whodunnit with a supernatural twist
					

A woman tries to solve her own murder in a new thriller. Plus: it’s the last in the series for Grayson’s amateur artists. Here’s what to watch this evening




					www.theguardian.com
				




About The The being on the telly tonight.



> "Expect exquisite adolescent angst tempered by the wisdom of middle age."_ - _Phil Harrison



Has Phil not seen the state of the the the twitter machine? Expect a babbling conspiraloon cunt more like.


----------



## D'wards (Apr 23, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2022)

rekil said:


> TV tonight: she’s dead but doesn’t know it – a whodunnit with a supernatural twist
> 
> 
> A woman tries to solve her own murder in a new thriller. Plus: it’s the last in the series for Grayson’s amateur artists. Here’s what to watch this evening
> ...


That quote about exquisite adolescent angst a contender for pseuds corner


----------



## Raheem (Apr 26, 2022)

She was making a pro-life placard within minutes.


----------



## belboid (Apr 26, 2022)

Raheem said:


> View attachment 320241
> She was making a pro-life placard within minutes.


??

He’s a senior civil servant who is charged with fucking vile crimes.  Don’t see what’s wrong with that headline


----------



## Raheem (Apr 26, 2022)

belboid said:


> ??
> 
> He’s a senior civil servant who is charged with fucking vile crimes.  Don’t see what’s wrong with that headline


I don't think anyone has invented an anti-abortion drug.


----------



## belboid (Apr 26, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I don't think anyone has invented an anti-abortion drug.


Doh! Good point, well made


----------



## platinumsage (Apr 27, 2022)

Further arming Ukraine will only destroy it. The west must act to end this war now | Angus Roxburgh
					

By providing arms but avoiding military intervention western leaders are prolonging this hideous conflict, says former BBC Moscow correspondent Angus Roxburgh




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## ska invita (Apr 28, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Further arming Ukraine will only destroy it. The west must act to end this war now | Angus Roxburgh
> 
> 
> By providing arms but avoiding military intervention western leaders are prolonging this hideous conflict, says former BBC Moscow correspondent Angus Roxburgh
> ...


everything in that is correct, other than the fact that Putin is not interested in peace talks - his ambitions appear to be greater than anything that could be on offer


----------



## platinumsage (Apr 28, 2022)

ska invita said:


> everything in that is correct, other than the fact that Putin is not interested in peace talks - his ambitions appear to be greater than anything that could be on offer



If you think everything is correct but that one thing, then the entire article is surely flawed because it argues that the only way forward is "persuading Putin to implement an immediate ceasefire, by inviting Russia to comprehensive peace talks". 🤷


----------



## ska invita (Apr 28, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> If you think everything is correct but that one thing, then the entire article is surely flawed because it argues that the only way forward is "persuading Putin to implement an immediate ceasefire, by inviting Russia to comprehensive peace talks". 🤷


i agree with you
all the analysis is correct...but theres no solution that arises from that analysis...the conclusion drawn is a nonstarter....if only there were


----------



## Dystopiary (Apr 28, 2022)

That article's written by a guy who was literally a PR man for Putin.


----------



## ska invita (Apr 28, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> That article's written by a guy who was literally a PR man for Putin.


On the BBC payroll - aka Bolshevik broadcasting corporation! Amirite?


----------



## Dystopiary (Apr 28, 2022)

ska invita said:


> On the BBC payroll - aka Bolshevik broadcasting corporation! Amirite?


I'm not referring to him being the Beeb's Moscow correspondent, which he was. He also worked for Putin, like, literally.


----------



## ska invita (Apr 28, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> I'm not referring to him being the Beeb's Moscow correspondent, which he was. He also worked for Putin, like, literally.


ah i missed that bit - you're right. here's his explanation:








						Why I worked for the Kremlin - and what it's like meeting Putin
					

Angus Roxburgh signed up to work for Vladimir Putin's Kremlin after leaving journalism. He explains why and what Russia's leader is like




					inews.co.uk


----------



## planetgeli (May 2, 2022)

This smells like a pile of poo designed to sell papers/clickbait









						It smells like sex out there – and we seem determined to ignore it | Nell Frizzell
					

Whether you are waiting at the bus stop or outside Lidl, the spring scent hangs heavy in the air, says Nell Frizzell, author of The Panic Years




					www.theguardian.com
				




First time I've seen someone btl get 600 votes for just saying this is a pile of shite.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 2, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> This smells like a pile of poo designed to sell papers/clickbait
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also, no effort in the headline department

CUM ON SMELL THE JOYS
SPUNKY OLD BEGONIA
GOOD NIGHT CHLORINE


----------



## stavros (May 2, 2022)

My struggle with giving up my smartphone (temporarily).

For those who don't remember the same thing in 2016, 2018 and 2021.


----------



## Sue (May 2, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Also, no effort in the headline department
> 
> CUM ON SMELL THE JOYS
> SPUNKY OLD BEGONIA
> GOOD NIGHT CHLORINE


You've clearly missed your calling (thank fuck...)


----------



## Brainaddict (May 2, 2022)

stavros said:


> My struggle with giving up my smartphone (temporarily).
> 
> For those who don't remember the same thing in 2016, 2018 and 2021.


I don't think there's anything wrong with repeating that type of story. It has a massive effect on people's mental health and millions of people struggle with their phone use, and will continue to do so possibly forever.  There are possibly some more interesting approaches to it they could come up with besides individual efforts to break the addiction, but I don't think it's unreasonable to keep talking about it - in fact it's quite good because it makes people feel less alone with their personal struggles.


----------



## rekil (May 2, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Also, no effort in the headline department
> 
> CUM ON SMELL THE JOYS
> SPUNKY OLD BEGONIA
> GOOD NIGHT CHLORINE



GuardianBaby makes bid for xmas number 1, 2 and 3.


----------



## rekil (May 5, 2022)

Wake Up Punk review – memorabilia-burning punk progeny fails to check his privilege
					

This documentary about Joe Corré, the son of Vivienne Westwood and the late Malcolm McLaren, is a strangely listless and unlikable affair




					www.theguardian.com
				






> The film is on much stronger ground when it gets on to the more interesting question of who are the heirs to punk. Corré and Westwood both think that Julian Assange is a true punk; and whatever you think about Assange, yes, there is something in that.



Oh no there isn't.


----------



## ska invita (May 7, 2022)

Great summary from Matt Kennard and Mark Curtis








						DECLASSIFIED UK: How the UK Security Services neutralised the country’s leading liberal newspaper
					

The Guardian, Britain’s leading liberal newspaper with a global reputation for independent and critical journalism, has been successfully targeted by security agencies to neutralise its adversarial reporting of the ‘security state’, according to newly released documents and evidence from former...




					www.dailymaverick.co.za


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2022)

There is a truly incredible line in this piece of 'analysis' from Rowena Mason









						Keir Starmer’s moment of drama is an unexpected gamble
					

Analysis: Resignation promise has been praised as a bold move, but not everyone in the Labour camp is convinced it’s the right one




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## two sheds (May 10, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Great summary from Matt Kennard and Mark Curtis
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The section on Corbyn pushing a threat to national security and anti-semitism is interesting: 



> Given its appeal to traditional Labour supporters, the paper has probably done more to undermine Corbyn than any other. In particular, its massive coverage of alleged widespread anti-Semitism in the Labour Party has helped to disparage Corbyn more than other smears carried in the media.
> 
> The Guardian and The Observer have published hundreds of articles on “Labour anti-Semitism” and, since the beginning of this year, carried over 50 such articles with headlines clearly negative to Corbyn. Typical headlines have included “The Observer view: Labour leadership is complicit in anti-Semitism”, “Jeremy Corbyn is either blind to anti-Semitism – or he just doesn’t care”, and “Labour‘s anti-Semitism problem is institutional. It needs investigation”.
> 
> ...



plus a section at the end downplaying the security services involvement with torture.


----------



## ska invita (May 10, 2022)

two sheds said:


> The section on Corbyn pushing a threat to national security and anti-semitism is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> plus a section at the end downplaying the security services involvement with torture.


this graph...








We cant know for certain how precisely the consent management process plays out at the Guardian, but I think the relationship with "security services" ( MI5 ) is an interesting aspect of this...when you consider this next to the near full spectrum infiltration of MI5 in campaign groups (over a 1,000 groups infiltrated) The Guardian seems like an easy target to me.

Of course secret state stuff is easily dismissed as conspiracy theory, but the spycops inquiry shows that even the most paranoid notions of infiltration would've been conservative compared to the reality


----------



## billy_bob (May 10, 2022)

killer b said:


> There is a truly incredible line in this piece of 'analysis' from Rowena Mason
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I read that with dismay too. The suggestion that the way 'beergate' has unfolded was all a tactical play on Starmer's part is a remarkable exercise in wishful thinking.

Of the current Labour frontbench, Rayner's the only one who seems remotely up to the job of leader. Yes, she'd get the same onslaught Corbyn faced, but she wouldn't sit quietly planting jam while she got it - she'd fire back, and I'd be interested to see how that might play out. But she might be implicated at the same time as Starmer and be unable to credibly take over, so ... god knows ... maybe give Ed another go... ?


----------



## billy_bob (May 10, 2022)

two sheds I wasn't being serious. But OTOH, looking at the Labour frontbench, it's slim pickings...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> two sheds I wasn't being serious. But OTOH, looking at the Labour frontbench, it's slim pickings...


a row of thick arses


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> maybe give Ed another go... ?


----------



## Sue (May 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


>


Ed stone #2 would cheer us all up in these difficult times.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> Ed stone #2 would cheer us all up in these difficult times.


the parliamentary conservative party being made to walk over a minefield would cheer us all up in these difficult times


----------



## Sue (May 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> the parliamentary conservative party being made to walk over a minefield would cheer us all up in these difficult times


Not sure there's any need to be party political about it tbh.


----------



## two sheds (May 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> it's slim pickings...


The triumphant next labour leader


----------



## billy_bob (May 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> the parliamentary conservative party being made to walk over a minefield would cheer us all up in these difficult times



Sounds like there might not be enough jeopardy to this. Could we add random drone strikes or something?


----------



## billy_bob (May 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> a row of thick arses



What you doing, looking at their arses? Has Rayner been up to her old distraction tricks again?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What you doing, looking at their arses? Has Rayner been up to her old distraction tricks again?


arses in the figurative sense, thick in the two short planks sense


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 22, 2022)

Lots of letters but not necessarily in the right order



> It also comes weeks after intervention former prime minister David Cameron claimed PreventThe was being compromised by Muslim critics, criticism that was widely branded as Islamophobic.


  









						Anti-terrorism programme must keep focus on far right, say experts
					

Analysts question Home Office strategy after it emerged that a review of its Prevent programme was pushing for it to refocus on Islamist threats




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Rob Ray (May 24, 2022)

> You can almost feel the pendulum swinging away from a polarising and ultimately grubby era back towards a politics at least vaguely connected to truth and reality. Or at least you can if you want to badly enough.


Australia has shown how quickly the right can crumble. Boris Johnson, be warned | Gaby Hinsliff

What a lesson to take from a decade of absolute lunatics taking more and more political ground enabled by centrists' abject failure to address any of the structural issues driving voter anger and political apathy. That all you have to do is wait and eventually the right will fuck over enough people in such appalling ways that it'll make your case for you. And then an anemic wastrel from your team can have a go at waffling ineffectually from the top table while cementing the logics of the right which led to their election in the first place, fueling their rejuvenation. Then start the whole cycle over again as the planet burns, services collapse and hard-won human rights are tossed out the window.

And she's writing this tosh in the face of the looming 2022 US elections, with Biden poised to lose seats to the abject madness of fucking _Trumpism_, _again_, because of this very strategy.

My God liberals are just the fucking worst.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 24, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Australia has shown how quickly the right can crumble. Boris Johnson, be warned | Gaby Hinsliff
> 
> What a lesson to take from a decade of absolute lunatics taking more and more political ground enabled by centrists' abject failure to address any of the structural issues driving voter anger and political apathy. That all you have to do is wait and eventually the right will fuck over enough people in such appalling ways that it'll make your case for you. And then an anemic wastrel from your team can have a go at waffling ineffectually from the top table while cementing the logics of the right which led to their election in the first place, fueling their rejuvenation. Then start the whole cycle over again as the planet burns, services collapse and hard-won human rights are tossed out the window.
> 
> ...



Wasn't she the 'Prince Philip was a feminist' one? She'll have to work hard to top that tbh.


----------



## hash tag (May 28, 2022)

It's not just a whole page article on a television programme but it's a programme on a subscription only channel 😡


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2022)

hash tag said:


> It's not just a whole page article on a television programme but it's a programme on a subscription only channel 😡
> View attachment 324439


like it's the first time it's ever happened  fucking oceans of ink were spilled writing about game of thrones, which was _also_ on a subscription only channel, far more than this single page. yet that's rarely mentioned and got was much more popular than borgen


----------



## strung out (May 28, 2022)

hash tag said:


> It's not just a whole page article on a television programme but it's a programme on a subscription only channel 😡
> View attachment 324439


All these reviews of movies you have to pay for at the cinema too


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2022)

strung out said:


> All these reviews of movies you have to pay for at the cinema too


and books you have to buy to read  not to mention restaurants you have to pay to eat at


----------



## hash tag (May 28, 2022)

But the article wasn't in the reviews bit, it was in the main body of news


----------



## stavros (May 29, 2022)

hash tag said:


> It's not just a whole page article on a television programme but it's a programme on a subscription only channel 😡
> View attachment 324439


There were seven pages in yesterday's sport section, plus one in the main section, on a football match only available on subscription telly. The Champions League final, between the, er, runners up from England and Spain last year.


----------



## Edie (Jun 2, 2022)

This entire article is enraging  








						Euan Blair: from PM’s son to £700m business and an MBE
					

Co-founder of Multiverse believes ‘obsession with the academic’ is holding some people back




					www.theguardian.com
				




“I often say to people: ‘I started my career in investment banking structuring corporate debt and derivatives, armed with a degree in ancient history and a master’s in international relations that did not teach me how to do the job,” says Euan Blair.

Blair’s life mission, he says, is to “make sure the best jobs the next decade don’t just go to the same people who got the best jobs for the last decade”.

He was a mere apprentice, making his own way in the world with sheer grit, meritocracy and a millionaire family


----------



## stavros (Jun 3, 2022)

I watched a press review on France24 earlier, where they described the Graun as Britain's "only republican paper", yet the Windsors still get half the front page today, and are still dumping Ukraine down to second place on their homepage.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 3, 2022)

Polly Toynbee waving her flag and raising her glass of Pimms.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 7, 2022)

The Guardian view on deportations to Rwanda: cut out the stunts​

The second part of this headline, especially with Oberfuhrer Patel beneath it, is almost but not quite a fantastic spoonerism.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 7, 2022)

stut: "to have no concern with"


----------



## Serene (Jun 9, 2022)

These Railways strikes are going to be very annoying, and for Guardian readers, agreeing with the principle of Industrial action is going to be deeply awkward.


----------



## srb7677 (Jun 9, 2022)

The Guardian likes to pretend to be all lefty and progressive but it is actually the bible of affluent middle class-home owning liberals. Anything even mildly threatening to the Thatcherite economic status quo their readers do so well out of personally is automatically viewed as far left or extreme left. The paper is incorrigibly Blairite on economic matters, but more Lib Dem liberal on social ones.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> The Guardian likes to pretend to be all lefty and progressive but it is actually the bible of affluent middle class-home owning liberals. Anything even mildly threatening to the Thatcherite economic status quo their readers do so well out of personally is automatically viewed as far left or extreme left. The paper is incorrigibly Blairite on economic matters, but more Lib Dem liberal on social ones.


i think you'd do well to read the thread


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Polly Toynbee waving her flag and raising her glass of Pimms.


after a glass or two she'll be waving her pimms and raising her flag


----------



## Sue (Jun 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> after a glass or two she'll be waving her pimms and raising her flag


Does she need that glass or two...?


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 11, 2022)

this is the most tl;dr interview I’ve seen in a while:









						Pete Doherty on swapping crack for camembert in France: ‘It’s easier to be clean here – even for a scoundrel’
					

Twenty years after the Libertines’ narcotics-fuelled heyday, has the singer really put the chaos behind him?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 16, 2022)

People are going to starve, lol.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 16, 2022)

TBF, noodle prices rocketing is quite a serious issue if you're East Asian...


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 16, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> TBF, noodle prices rocketing is quite a serious issue if you're East Asian...


I'm aware, this is why I highlighted the tone of the headline.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 16, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> I'm aware, this is why I highlighted the tone of the headline.



Sorry, I misread your tone as sarcastic, i.e. why are they making a fuss about ramen, it's not like anyone will starve.

(Edit: probably didn't help that I still don't get 'Ramen a leg' - I've been saying it in my head in every possible intonation and I can't make a pun out of it  )

To atone for my error, a Guardian gem. One poor man who thought he was getting £360 worth of single malt for £25 is furious about his gross mistreatment:

Morrisons mistakenly lists £2.50 whisky​


> “Now the offer has been retracted I feel cheated. We are going away to a yurt in the Lake District this weekend and that would have topped the weekend off.”


----------



## Cerv (Jun 16, 2022)

“Arm and a leg”
Because it costs a lot more now. 
As puns go, it’s not a good one.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 16, 2022)

Cerv said:


> “Arm and a leg”
> Because it costs a lot more now.
> As puns go, it’s not a good one.


That really is poor work. Isn't there meant to be a _double _meaning? 'Ramen a leg' is just gibberish.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 16, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> That really is poor work. Isn't there meant to be a _double _meaning? 'Ramen a leg' is just gibberish.



It’s a sub-editor trying to do a Japanese accent pun with plausible deniability due to the institution’s fine tradition of normally leaving that sort of thing to the tabloids.  In the 1980s.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 18, 2022)

_strike chaos

_


----------



## TopCat (Jun 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> _strike chaos
> 
> View attachment 327854_


Always support the bosses class that paper does.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 19, 2022)

NASUWT are threatening to maybe think about striking in November, so not the most urgent thing to panic about right now.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jun 20, 2022)

Can't say I get this excited about my "utility room".








						‘It’s a middle-class dream come true!’ How the utility room became the new status symbol
					

Once they were grim spaces to stash away the mop. Now they’re must-haves for the rich and aspirational. What’s fuelling the desire for laundry-room luxe?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> Can't say I get this excited about my "utility room".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


but it's a middle class dream come true


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 20, 2022)

Last line of the article says it all:

*As one utility room owner reminds me: “It’s just another room to throw crap in, regardless of how nice it looks when you snap the first Insta pic.”*

Welcome to Chez Q


----------



## mx wcfc (Jun 20, 2022)

Utility rooms are a necessity in these days of “open plan” living. 

Try watching the telly with the washing machine on in your bijoux open plan living space.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 20, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Utility rooms are a necessity in these days of “open plan” living.



Speak for yourself.  My house is 120 years old and aside from electricity and an inside loo is pretty much as per original spec.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2022)

8ball said:


> Speak for yourself.  My house is 120 years old and aside from electricity and an inside loo is pretty much as per original spec.


((((8ball))))


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 20, 2022)

8ball said:


> Speak for yourself.  My house is 120 years old and aside from electricity and an inside loo is pretty much as per original spec.



If everything else in it is as it was 120 years ago, why do you even need the electricity?


----------



## 8ball (Jun 20, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> If everything else in it is as it was 120 years ago, why do you even need the electricity?



For the time machine.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 20, 2022)

8ball said:


> For the time machine.


Too good for steam and hand-cranks are you now? You've changed 😥


----------



## 8ball (Jun 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Too good for steam and hand-cranks are you now? You've changed 😥



Only when I'm here (or, more accurately, "now"*). 

In 1898 there's no local grid to hook it up to, so it's back to the steam and hand cranks.

* - something of a moot point considering the planet has moved quite some distance in the intervening period


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 20, 2022)

Bloody hipster


----------



## 8ball (Jun 20, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Bloody hipster



That's what they say in 1898 when they see my bootcut jeans.


----------



## JimW (Jun 20, 2022)

Can't beat a good hand crank of an evening.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jun 20, 2022)

Fucking cunts trying to normalise this toxic, anti-working class bullshit -









						Shower in your bra and cook in the kettle? Putting ‘extreme frugality’ to the test
					

The internet is full of creative hacks from people who pride themselves on their ability to scrimp and save. Are they worth trying?




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## 8ball (Jun 20, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Fucking cunts trying to normalise this toxic, anti-working class bullshit -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't notice anything anti-working class or particularly toxic there.
Granted, sometimes the Graun is a bit iffy with this kind of article, but this looks ok.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 20, 2022)

It’s as if they can’t even smell their own shit:





						Here’s an answer to the restaurant staffing crisis: pick up the odd waiting shift to eat out | Food & drink industry | The Guardian
					

Perhaps the massed ranks of the middle aged could help out by waiting at table? I’ve got my apron ready…




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## 8ball (Jun 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s as if they can’t even smell their own shit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Not sure I’d want someone with that condition serving food.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 21, 2022)

Britain and Russia are enemies in Ukraine - but both want to disrupt Europe | Caroline de Gruyter
					

The Northern Ireland protocol row shows the similarities between two former imperial powers, says Dutch author Caroline de Gruyter




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 21, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Utility rooms are a necessity in these days of “open plan” living.
> 
> Try watching the telly with the washing machine on in your bijoux open plan living space.



When you see the 3D mock-ups on Grand Designs I always think, where are you going to keep the hoover? All these beautiful, flowing spaces bathed in light, but nowhere to put the fucking hoover.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> When you see the 3D mock-ups on Grand Designs I always think, where are you going to keep the hoover? All these beautiful, flowing spaces bathed in light, but nowhere to put the fucking hoover.


i always think 'where are you going to bury the architect?'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i always think 'where are you going to bury the architect?'



Under about four hundredweight of cocaine, considering what they pay the twats.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 22, 2022)

Classy











						‘Our happy place’: family of boy with dementia keep up Glastonbury streak
					

Harley Bond, nine, whose condition limits his ability to walk and talk, has not missed festival since he was born




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 22, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> When you see the 3D mock-ups on Grand Designs I always think, where are you going to keep the hoover? All these beautiful, flowing spaces bathed in light, but nowhere to put the fucking hoover.


Under the stairs is a good place, visible too.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 22, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> When you see the 3D mock-ups on Grand Designs I always think, where are you going to keep the hoover? All these beautiful, flowing spaces bathed in light, but nowhere to put the fucking hoover.



I'm sure if you pay enough you can get a cleaner who takes the ugly thing back home with her and stores it in her hovel instead of in your showhome.


----------



## Skim (Jun 24, 2022)

“The new options include sustainable allergen-free hemp-based soft serve, raspberry and sorrel slushies, artisanal granita and a beer top made from purple ube ice-cream.

Traditional ice-cream, once an affordable treat, is starting to become unaffordable for many families across the UK.”

Hemp soft serve and sorrell slushies: UK ice-cream sellers innovate to beat soaring costs


----------



## TopCat (Jun 24, 2022)

You can get fantastic UK strawberries at the moment for a lot less than rancid armpit sludge ice cream.


----------



## Elpenor (Jun 26, 2022)

Won’t someone please think of the second home owners?









						Second homes can be a blight and a blessing on British towns. We need the right balance | Simon Jenkins
					

Since childhood I have lived some of the year in a Welsh valley. It is possible to become a part of the local community, says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## two sheds (Jun 26, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Won’t someone please think of the second home owners?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't read that first time I saw it. He's a bit biased because he's got a second home himself and it mentions some of the blights in passing but it's very short on blessings.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Classy
> 
> View attachment 328465
> 
> ...


I wonder what his hearing's like, that strikes me as child abuse and not any sort of positive parenting


----------



## NoXion (Jun 26, 2022)

TopCat said:


> You can get fantastic UK strawberries at the moment for a lot less than rancid armpit sludge ice cream.



But I don't want strawberries. I want ice cream.


----------



## xenon (Jun 26, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Didn't read that first time I saw it. He's a bit biased because he's got a second home himself and it mentions some of the blights in passing but it's very short on blessings.



Also, It's Simon Jenkins. A no read by default.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 26, 2022)

xenon said:


> Also, It's Simon Jenkins. A no read by default.


Choicest quote for me:

"There is intense hostility to mostly English newcomers in counties such as Gwynedd, which now charges me £8,768 council tax a year on a modest seaside property, which would be four times the tax on a larger property in west London. This is crazy local economics and merely ensures that second homes are only for the very rich."

(Mind you he could offset that by selling his second home for a huge fucking profit having lived there part of the year 'since childhood'. )

Closely followed by: 

"A better approach would be to draw up a voluntary charter offered to anyone registering a second home in a new community." Yep voluntary charter is all that's needed.


----------



## Sue (Jun 26, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Choicest quote for me:
> 
> "There is intense hostility to mostly English newcomers in counties such as Gwynedd, which now charges me £8,768 council tax a year on a modest seaside property, which would be four times the tax on a larger property in west London. This is crazy local economics and merely ensures that second homes are only for the very rich."


Must say it's not the council tax that's stopping me buying a second home...


----------



## MickiQ (Jun 26, 2022)

Well it's fairly safe bet there aren't many poor second home owners anyway but he's right to a point. All these tax them out strategies seem to be doing is raising the threshold at which the nouveau rich get priced out by the filthy rich.
I personally can't see how this problem is going to be solved tbh.
The council can't stop home owners selling to whomever they want.
Even this restricting who can buy new houses won't stop the buyer selling it on in a year or two.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 26, 2022)

This is true, but making it eye-wateringly expensive will at least raise some money to make up for the damage to local communities, to locals particularly young people priced out of the market.

"I am acutely aware of the dismay long felt by the small community, 80% of whose houses are now unoccupied out of season. The place is unreal: streets silent, shops shut and cafes empty. The school has long closed, as have the doctor’s surgery, the bank and the police station. Everywhere are holiday lets and second homes. While builders and decorators boom, shops become unviable and the stuffing is knocked out of local institutions."

Acutely aware but still owns a second home there. It would cost him far less to put up in a B&B or hotel somewhere for a couple of weeks holiday a year, when he actually would be helping the local economy.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 26, 2022)

He’s a prick. The local council should keep raising council tax on second homes until the likes of him is forced to sell to somebody who wants to live there. Why should he get a special pass to keep an empty house?


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 26, 2022)

"The question is how the favoured communities can make a sort of peace with the invaders." 
What an irredeemable fucking weapon.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 26, 2022)

“Oh boo hoo one day I might want to retire there so the people who live there should be loving me in readiness and preparing the way for my special coming.”  Fuck off, Jenkins.


----------



## elbows (Jun 26, 2022)

Ho ho ho...



> While millions of rail passengers were hit by the dispute, Lynch has won plaudits for clearly articulating the grievances of his members and the reasons for action. He has also disarmed some of television’s most experienced interrogators, including Sky News broadcaster Kay Burley and Talk TV presenter Piers Morgan.



From ‘I don’t want to be an icon’: Mick Lynch on winning the rail strike PR battle

lol at the line 'some of televisions most experienced interrogators', which is why I'm sticking it here. They arent decent interrogators, they are shit, and only survive in those roles because its a rigged game in a shabby circus. Crap propagandists. The slightly more sophisticated propagandists are now busy conceding how well Lynch did, and trying to make another silly game out of that angle. Anything to avoid too much focus on the actual issues that affect people, the substance of the matter which Lynch is now managing to win praise for by actually focussing on, refusing to be disarmed or unduly distracted by the shitty panto.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 26, 2022)

I see we are on the "only the Lib Dems can defeat the Tories" series again now.









						The Tories are teetering, but only a progressive alliance can deal the final blow | John Harris
					

Last week’s byelections showed that a ‘change moment’, a chance to rid the UK of this rotten government, is within sight, says Guardian columnist John Harris




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 27, 2022)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I see we are on the "only the Lib Dems can defeat the Tories" series again now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Psephologically speaking there is through in that. In the south, the LibDems have been more successful in beating the Tories, it's Labour more commonly in the north (of course psephology is an inexact science; Labour do very well along the southern resorts, LibDems have held seats in Sheffield and Leeds before today)

For Labour do win the next election outright, particularly with the boundary changes being designed for this cycle, the southern seats needed as gains are closer LD targets than they are Labour ones. It's Labour in places like Bristol or Brighton or Portsmouth, it'll be LDs in the Home Counties and Cornwall.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2022)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I see we are on the "only the Lib Dems can defeat the Tories" series again now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're taking the piss


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 28, 2022)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I see we are on the "only the Lib Dems can defeat the Tories" series again now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saw that. A dreadful piece that can only make its argument by re-inventing the LibDems as centre-left (and the Labour Party as left).


Mind you the same argument is getting plenty of use here too.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jun 28, 2022)

BREAKING NEWS: Man plays piano in pub








						Coldplay’s Chris Martin plays impromptu song at pub post-Glastonbury
					

In rural village, frontman performed A Sky Full of Stars for a couple who were planning to play the song as their first dance when they marry




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## TopCat (Jun 28, 2022)

Plays badly and wails like a 70mg 2CB sniffer.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 28, 2022)

It's Chris Martin though, the Guardian loves him, and Coldplay.


----------



## andysays (Jun 28, 2022)

BBC website has the same story.


----------



## killer b (Jun 28, 2022)

Coldplay are awful, but they're literally one of the most famous bands in the world. Of course the papers are going to cover something like this.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 28, 2022)

Just doesn't feel national news-worthy when there are bigger things going on.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 28, 2022)

They have quotas for a quantity of whimsical tripe to run alongside all the bad things that are happening all the time everywhere that we must know about.

e.g. Twins, 102, mark birthday with cheese sandwich


----------



## killer b (Jun 28, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Just doesn't feel national news-worthy when there are bigger things going on.


I reckon the occasional jolly light interest story among all the world is burning pieces is probably ok tbh


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 28, 2022)

If someone would just set fire to Chris Martin we could combine the two


----------



## Serge Forward (Jun 28, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> If someone would just set fire to Chris Martin we could combine the two


Need a whicker man for that cunt


----------



## Lurdan (Jun 28, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Need a whicker man for that cunt


You entirely sure about that ?


----------



## JimW (Jun 28, 2022)

Lurdan said:


> You entirely sure about that ?


Rest of the band came in and started jigging about.
They whirled about us.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 13, 2022)

'But how are City workers coping with the heatwave?', I hear you all cry. Don't worry, they're finding imaginative ways to keep cool without falling foul of dress codes.

Thank god.

'Above 20C is shorts territory'


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 13, 2022)

Old school Grauniad proof editing oversight in that headline, though I wouldn’t be surprised at anything right now:








						UK government to table no-confidence motion in itself
					

Unexpected move does not directly criticise Boris Johnson and comes after Labour version rejected




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Old school Grauniad proof editing oversight in that headline, though I wouldn’t be surprised at anything right now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you please expand for the hard of thinking?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Can you please expand for the hard of thinking?


No-confidence instead of confidence


----------



## bluescreen (Jul 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> No-confidence instead of confidence


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2022)

Monday's corker...how to peg out yer washing.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 20, 2022)

Pegs? PEGS? Spit


----------



## belboid (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Monday's corker...how to peg out yer washing.
> 
> View attachment 333597


Especially as the pic has the items hung up the wrong way round. 

Tops from the bottom, bottoms from the top.  

I’d be tempted to mention this in the guardian comments, but then I’d be _one of them_ and I’d have to kill myself.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 20, 2022)

A classic I agree - though I think we have discussed before that Guardian lifestyle articles are near enough a free hit and should be excluded from this thread!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Monday's corker...how to peg out yer washing.
> 
> View attachment 333597



I don’t have any great issue with this tbh.

Useful for clueless students who have been turning their shared digs mouldy.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 20, 2022)

belboid said:


> *Especially as the pic has the items hung up the wrong way round.*


It was an article for the Australian edition of the guardian


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2022)

8ball said:


> I don’t have any great issue with this tbh.
> 
> Useful for clueless students who have been turning their shared digs mouldy.


After the first two terms you'd have thought they'd work it out


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jul 20, 2022)

id just clicked past a pop up begging me to pay to make a difference to their journalism and the world we live, It always guilt tripped me somehow - here they were heroically posting the stories and I was just leeching off them. Never paying, blocking their ads and their tracking cookies. Get to fuck in your Cotswold weekend volvo Wellington boots wankers


----------



## 8ball (Jul 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> After the first two terms you'd have thought they'd work it out



For the stuff about drying indoors perhaps, but re: outdoors, it’s pissing down for the first two terms.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> After the first two terms you'd have thought they'd work it out



Given the stories I've heard about students, I wouldn't be so confident.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

so the actor david warner has died and in his obituary the guardian declares that he didn't set food on stage for 40 years after a disastrous production of i claudius in 1973.









						Veteran British actor David Warner, star of The Omen and Tron, dies aged 80
					

The stage and screen veteran’s multifaceted career included roles in Titanic, Time Bandits and Straw Dogs, as well as a renowned Hamlet for the RSC




					www.theguardian.com
				



most people would make that 30 years, as the guardian did in 2002 when warner returned to the stage in a production of the feast of snails - the guardian not only innumerate but inaccurate. again.


----------



## JimW (Jul 25, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> so the actor david warner has died and in his obituary the guardian declares that he didn't set food on stage for 40 years after a disastrous production of i claudius in 1973.
> View attachment 334401
> 
> 
> ...


Set food? Stare too long into the Grauniad...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2022)

JimW said:


> Set food? Stare too long into the Grauniad...


Fucking autocorrect


----------



## Cerv (Jul 28, 2022)

GB News faces Ofcom investigation over host’s Covid booster claims
					

Mark Steyn’s misleading claim that jab was killing Britons was based on ‘inaccurate reading’ of report, says Full Fact




					www.theguardian.com
				






> This article was amended on 28 July 2022. Ivermectin is primarily an antiparasitic drug, not a “horse tranquilliser” as an earlier version said.


Guardian subs have been taking too much ketamine at the weekends


----------



## kabbes (Jul 29, 2022)

Funny thing about ketamine is that it is used as a tranquilliser for loads of other animals every bit as much as it is used for horses. More, even. It sounds a bit cooler calling it a “horse tranquilliser” than it does calling it a “cat anaesthetic” or a “hamster sedative” though.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Jul 29, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Wellington boots wankers


----------



## NoXion (Jul 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Funny thing about ketamine is that it is used as a tranquilliser for loads of other animals every bit as much as it is used for horses. More, even. It sounds a bit cooler calling it a “horse tranquilliser” than it does calling it a “cat anaesthetic” or a “hamster sedative” though.



With regards to ivermectin, the reason the "horse paste" epithet for it gets thrown about a lot is because the quack fuckwits who tout it have genuinely caused supply issues for vetinarians:









						How Covid Misinformation Created a Run on Animal Medicine
					

Veterinarians, ranchers and farmers say they are struggling with the effects of the surging demand for ivermectin, a deworming drug.




					www.nytimes.com
				




It's hard to get legitimate human-dosed ivermectin, since a prescription is needed, and actual doctors are understandably reluctant to issue a script for an anti-parasitic in order to treat a viral illness.


----------



## xenon (Jul 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Funny thing about ketamine is that it is used as a tranquilliser for loads of other animals every bit as much as it is used for horses. More, even. It sounds a bit cooler calling it a “horse tranquilliser” than it does calling it a “cat anaesthetic” or a “hamster sedative” though.



Ah, another no such thing as a Fish listener.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 29, 2022)

xenon said:


> Ah, another no such thing as a Fish listener.


Sonar, so good 🤷


----------



## Cerv (Jul 29, 2022)

> The subheading of this article was amended on 29 July 2022 to remove a reference to “ex-PM”.


jumping the gun a bit guys









						Former aide likens Boris Johnson’s exit to storming of Capitol
					

Cleo Watson also says PM had to be ‘house-trained’ and that he compared her to an ‘ugly old lamp’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Funny thing about ketamine is that it is used as a tranquilliser for loads of other animals every bit as much as it is used for horses. More, even. It sounds a bit cooler calling it a “horse tranquilliser” than it does calling it a “cat anaesthetic” or a “hamster sedative” though.



Or children's anaesthetic even.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 29, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Or children's anaesthetic even.


Or emergency anaesthetic for paramedics when they don’t know the patient’s health history, so if you’ve shredded your arse on a tube escalator or been flung through a windscreen and shattered your rib cage, they will administer a massive dose of ketamine (compared to a recreational dose anyway), until they can get you back to the hospital and access your medical records to find out whether opiates can be used for your pain.
It’s one of WHO’s essential medicines, and is valuable in poorer countries as an anaesthetic and pain killer, as it doesn’t need loads of tech or even electricity to monitor a patient like other anaesthetics, nor does it require an anaesthetist or doctor to administer, as it doesn’t repress your breathing nor your heartbeat and therefore require an expert to administer and monitor. Because of this it’s also valuable in war zones and in disasters to administer on site in absence of a field hospital.
It’s a fantastic drug!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 29, 2022)

True that.  It’s fucking awesome. 
Had it once for a cardioversion.


----------



## stavros (Aug 3, 2022)

Simon Jenkins on Truss' Oxbridge idea:



> Her proposal would involve some 13,000 Oxbridge interviews from England alone, swamping and distorting the admissions system (assuming candidates can afford to await their exam results, rather than taking up conditional offers elsewhere), and discouraging applicants with less than three A*.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 4, 2022)

Series of explosions hamper attempts to tackle Berlin forest fire
					

Firefighters struggle to contain blaze that began at munitions site used to store second world war bombs




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## 8ball (Aug 4, 2022)

.

(not reading posts properly  )


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 5, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 335966
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those pesky maps...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Those pesky maps...


Highly agitated cartography


----------



## hitmouse (Aug 10, 2022)

The Guardian has caught up with this morning's wildcat strike, and...



Spoiler



the ECIA there actually referring to the employer's association who the workers are wanting to negotiate with, sort of the precise opposite of a union really


----------



## Raheem (Aug 10, 2022)

Had to read this a few times.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 10, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Had to read this a few times.
> View attachment 336915



God damned Europeans! They ruined Europe!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 10, 2022)

maybe the europeans are taking back control of their borders?


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 10, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> maybe the europeans are taking back control of their borders?


They always were. Anyone who thinks EU nice and cuddly and kumbaya and not at all racist needs to read it all again very carefully.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> They always were. Anyone who thinks EU nice and cuddly and kumbaya and not at all racist needs to read it all again very carefully.


An honest acceptance that ‘taking back can’t of borders’ is essentially a racist endeavour


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Aug 11, 2022)

Of course it is, Frontex are terrorists. Europe wants to prevent african migration lest it become clear how much exploitation has occured on that continent by European interests. Frontex are the EUs way of putting their fingers in their ears and ignoring the real issues.


----------



## bluescreen (Aug 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> An honest acceptance that ‘taking back can’t of borders’ is essentially a racist endeavour


Anyone who reckons that the UK outside the EU is somehow less racist - hasn't been following the news.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 11, 2022)

apols; thread derail....my bad.


----------



## Skim (Aug 14, 2022)

A heartwrenching story:

The Groucho Club wants younger members? During a cost of living crisis? Good luck with that


----------



## oryx (Aug 14, 2022)

Skim said:


> A heartwrenching story:
> 
> The Groucho Club wants younger members? During a cost of living crisis? Good luck with that


My heart bleeds for her!

Shame there wasn't a comments facility.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 14, 2022)

oryx said:


> My heart bleeds for her!
> 
> Shame there wasn't a comments facility.


They are shy with allowing comments now.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 14, 2022)

I wish they were as shy with my local paper's comment section as it's mostly fash sockpuppets


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 14, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> I wish they were as shy with my local paper's comment section as it's mostly fash sockpuppets


Same here


----------



## oryx (Aug 14, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> I wish they were as shy with my local paper's comment section as it's mostly fash sockpuppets





AmateurAgitator said:


> Same here


Same here. The fact that such opinions aren't moderated bothers me.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 19, 2022)

Almost half of all meals are egg sandwiches or something else.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 19, 2022)

Raheem said:


> View attachment 338478
> Almost half of all meals are egg sandwiches or something else.



Some say more than half…


----------



## Raheem (Aug 19, 2022)

8ball said:


> Some say more than half…


I bet they don't have a study, though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 19, 2022)

Raheem said:


> View attachment 338478
> Almost half of all meals are egg sandwiches or something else.



Considerably less than half the population smokes, so some smokers must be dying six or seven times at least.

They should put that on the packet. _Smoking males you die over and over again._


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 19, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> I wish they were as shy with my local paper's comment section as it's mostly fash sockpuppets



Local paper websites tout their content everywhere, meaning a lot of the commenters on Devon Live or whatever will be malcontent gammons from Surrey or Cheshire. This makes it look like there are a lot more of these twats than there really are.

It is getting ridiculous though. It'll be, _Traffic jam on A38 causing delays _and the comment will be, _it's all these people coming here in boats, getting their free range rovers and driving down here so they can crash into a central reservation in Newton Abbot. _


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Aug 19, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> _Traffic jam on A38 causing delays. it's all these people coming here in boats, getting their free range rovers and driving down here so they can crash into a central reservation in Newton Abbot. _


Thanks for the tip off. I'll spread the word.


----------



## stavros (Aug 23, 2022)

A two-page spread on the cash-in follow-up to a show that wasn't on free-to-air telly:


----------



## strung out (Aug 23, 2022)

If they only covered stuff that was free, their culture, entertainment and sport sections would be very brief.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 24, 2022)

Does the Guardian review restaurants? Maybe they should stop doing that and instead review food banks instead. After all, you have to _pay_ to eat at a restaurant, and only bougie scum are rich enough to do that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Does the Guardian review restaurants? Maybe they should stop doing that and instead review food banks instead. After all, you have to _pay_ to eat at a restaurant, and only bougie scum are rich enough to do that.


I think you've established who the guardian is written for


----------



## stavros (Aug 24, 2022)

strung out said:


> If they only covered stuff that was free, their culture, entertainment and sport sections would be very brief.


TV differs from those other media, I think, as there are dozens of free-to-air options.


----------



## Cerv (Aug 24, 2022)

stavros said:


> TV differs from those other media, I think, as there are dozens of free-to-air options.


Not really when you remember the licence fee. 

But the Guardian does give a lot of coverage to TV on the free to air channels. Just not exclusive. So what’s your complaint? That they should ignore all paid options because the free ones exist?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 24, 2022)

I think it is true that people who are really struggling probably aren't going to be able to afford subscription TV channels. The sort of reasoning that goes down the line of implying that more or less anything someone somewhere can't afford is a massive luxury isn't helpful though IMO. It just feeds into that 'flatscreen TV' divide and conquer nonsense that the tabloids and the Tories love.


----------



## belboid (Aug 24, 2022)

We do recall that most people here downloaded Game of Thrones rather than watching via a paid subscription, don’t we?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2022)

After this little gem it's time to flush


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2022)

Another load of auld shite from the guardian


			https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/30/ukraine-using-wooden-decoys-to-lure-russia-into-wasting-its-missiles-repor
		


That's entirely orthodox, following eg the serbian decoy tanks against nato and so many many examples of this in the past. Only a guardian hack could think this in some way unusual


----------



## Skim (Aug 31, 2022)

Yes, Andrew Tate is a loathsome human being. But my 14-year-old isn’t taken in by this ‘king of toxic masculinity’ | Zoe Williams

“I’m not saying my teenage boy is better than all the other teenage boys”… while really letting us know her teenage boy is much smarter than the “mugs” who watch Andrew Tate content.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 31, 2022)

Skim said:


> Yes, Andrew Tate is a loathsome human being. But my 14-year-old isn’t taken in by this ‘king of toxic masculinity’ | Zoe Williams
> 
> “I’m not saying my teenage boy is better than all the other teenage boys”… while really letting us know her teenage boy is much smarter than the “mugs” who watch Andrew Tate content.


Poor kid.


----------



## stavros (Aug 31, 2022)

Tim Farron hasn't been leader of the Lib Dems for over five years, since he swapped a totally fanciful dream, unsubstantiated with any kind of evidence, for being a Christian.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 31, 2022)

Is Farron the one who liked his chest pooed on?


----------



## brogdale (Aug 31, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Is Farron the one who liked his chest pooed on?


probably


----------



## Raheem (Aug 31, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Is Farron the one who liked his chest pooed on?


He's the one who didn't. It was a bit of a Westminster talking-point.


----------



## Cerv (Aug 31, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Is Farron the one who liked his chest pooed on?


You're thinking of Mark Oaten


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2022)

Cerv said:


> You're thinking of Mark Oaten


Mark oaten was likely the tip of the iceberg


----------



## TopCat (Aug 31, 2022)

Cerv said:


> You're thinking of Mark Oaten


Was it a threesome?


----------



## brogdale (Aug 31, 2022)

I'm sure that if it were God's will that someone shat on his chest, Farron would be totally up for it.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 31, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I'm sure that if it were God's will that someone shat on his chest, Farron would be totally up for it.


He's always ready for the aplopalypse


----------



## scifisam (Aug 31, 2022)

Cerv said:


> You're thinking of Mark Oaten



Little known fact: He was so bad at telling jokes that he was known as "I'll get" Mark Oaten.


----------



## magneze (Sep 1, 2022)

I'll probably get stick for listening to this but the Guardian Weekly Politics podcast sometimes has some interesting content but is incredibly annoying because whoever produces it doesn't understand volume levels. It's all over the place throughout. Don't they have ears?


----------



## Serge Forward (Sep 1, 2022)

magneze said:


> I'll probably get stick for listening to this but the Guardian Weekly Politics podcast sometimes has some interesting content


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 1, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Is Farron the one who liked his chest pooed on?


Yes.  Not the only one though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 2, 2022)

A little bit them, a little bit not them.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 2, 2022)

We're too busy singing to put anybody down


----------



## TopCat (Sep 2, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 340742
> 
> A little bit them, a little bit not them.


I saw that and vaguely wondered if it was cheaper to stage a pic rather than pay royalties.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 2, 2022)

It's FBI guys going undercover to bring down the counterculture from within, obvs.


----------



## stavros (Sep 10, 2022)

It's not until page 26 of today's edition that they start reporting any news, with such unimportant stuff as child mental health and shipping people the government doesn't like to Rwanda. Plus all four column pieces, the lead editorial and a load of bollocks about how sports are "paying their respects" (by pissing their fans off).

Oh, and a 40 page memorial supplement.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 11, 2022)

Literally all they had to do was take up being a hereditary monarch.


----------



## newbie (Sep 11, 2022)

stavros said:


> It's not until page 26 of today's edition that they start reporting any news, with such unimportant stuff as child mental health and shipping people the government doesn't like to Rwanda. Plus all four column pieces, the lead editorial and a load of bollocks about how sports are "paying their respects" (by pissing their fans off).
> 
> Oh, and a 40 page memorial supplement.


I was in a supermarket yesterday evening. No headlines left to read, more or less all papers gone, all titles sold out. People buying souvenirs I guess, for their grandchildren to be, because its history and they were there (well, in Morrisons) and no-one is going to save a screenshot for the inheritance.  
I presume the commercial managers predicted and aimed for those sales, and the Sundays will be much the same.


----------



## stavros (Sep 11, 2022)

At least before its Tory/KGB takeover the Independent would've made a point of _not_ putting it everywhere. I seem to remember they almost pointedly ignored whichever wedding took place about ten years ago.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 11, 2022)

There are no comments being allowed on any of the articles about the queen or monarchy. So I posted this on another of their articles where comments were allowed and took a screenshot - and it was gone within 10 seconds! Suggests that they have pre set programs wiping any comments the mention the subject. Just  - for fucks sake...


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 12, 2022)

Why are people getting arrested in Britain for being republicans? | Zoe Williams
					

Over the years, the conversation has been steadily closed down so that you can no longer voice anything but adoration, writes Zoe Williams




					www.theguardian.com
				




They've finally allowed a timid suggestion that not everyone is crying their eyes out.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 12, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Why are people getting arrested in Britain for being republicans? | Zoe Williams
> 
> 
> Over the years, the conversation has been steadily closed down so that you can no longer voice anything but adoration, writes Zoe Williams
> ...


No comments allowed on the article though.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 12, 2022)

They love her really.


----------



## Leighsw2 (Sep 12, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> There are no comments being allowed on any of the articles about the queen or monarchy. So I posted this on another of their articles where comments were allowed and took a screenshot - and it was gone within 10 seconds! Suggests that they have pre set programs wiping any comments the mention the subject. Just  - for fucks sake...
> 
> View attachment 342331


Good stuff. Are they now subjecting you to 'pre-moderation'? (ie. banning your comments) They did this to me after I posted something comparing Keir Starmer to Neil Kinnock!


----------



## ska invita (Sep 13, 2022)

TopCat said:


> They love her really.



another hard hitting piece from Zoe and the Guardian


----------



## stavros (Sep 13, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> There are no comments being allowed on any of the articles about the queen or monarchy.


They've remedied this with today's lead editorial, with predictable results.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2022)

£70 to run an oven for a week?! How the fuel crisis has Aga owners ripping out their stoves
					

One Blackpool-based ‘uninstaller’ has removed 35 of the kitchen classics this year. What a way to mark a centenary!




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 22, 2022)




----------



## kabbes (Sep 22, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


>



That takes a perfectly reasonable point about the disconnect between Guardian writers and its everyday readership and ruins it with hyperbole. “25-45k” is not a “realistic cost” buying an Aga. And you won’t need French doors either.  Aside from anything else, you can buy a single oven width Aga (ie the same width as a normal single oven), which costs about £7000. But is it not already stark enough just to say that this “solution” will cost you £7000?


----------



## Cerv (Sep 22, 2022)

The disconnect between Guardian writers and everyday readership is amusingly backwards from what the stereotype says it should be. 

The Guardian wrote an article a week back taking the mick out of Aga owners. One of these readers has gone to the letters page to defend their extravagant lifestyle choices.


----------



## pug (Sep 22, 2022)

Aga wankers


----------



## two sheds (Sep 22, 2022)

There's fuel costs, too. Gas if you're lucky, oil less so and electricity even less.



> a three oven no-hot-water *Aga* uses about 340 KW a week



elsewhere says 190W but still 

perhaps he's included taking out a mortgage for fuel costs.

Eta - that's going to be on all day costs I presume. I've got a battered old wood burning rayburn and I only normally have it on for  three or sometimes four hours a night even in winter.


----------



## killer b (Sep 22, 2022)

kabbes said:


> That takes a perfectly reasonable point about the disconnect between Guardian writers and its everyday readership and ruins it with hyperbole. “25-45k” is not a “realistic cost” buying an Aga. And you won’t need French doors either.  Aside from anything else, you can buy a single oven width Aga (ie the same width as a normal single oven), which costs about £7000. But is it not already stark enough just to say that this “solution” will cost you £7000?


the guy is criticising a readers letter to the graun, not a piece by a guardian writer (the letter is in response to this article: £70 to run an oven for a week?! How the fuel crisis has Aga owners ripping out their stoves)


----------



## killer b (Sep 22, 2022)

(russ in cheshire is one of the very worst people on twitter btw, a tedious hustler and outrage-merchant.)


----------



## kabbes (Sep 22, 2022)

killer b said:


> the guy is criticising a readers letter to the graun, not a piece by a guardian writer (the letter is in response to this article: £70 to run an oven for a week?! How the fuel crisis has Aga owners ripping out their stoves)


In that case, I don’t really know what is being argued here by anybody!


----------



## killer b (Sep 22, 2022)

kabbes said:


> In that case, I don’t really know what is being argued here by anybody!


it's just a twitter hustler relying on people not actually reading the thing he's using as a launchpad for his manufactured outrage for clicks.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 22, 2022)

killer b said:


> russ in cheshire is one of the very worst people on twitter btw


----------



## Indeliblelink (Sep 22, 2022)

I did quite like this from that twitter thread though.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 15, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

The palace is dripping in diamonds, so why bring out the disputed Koh-i-noor? | Catherine Bennett
					

The jewel in the last queen consort’s crown was plundered from India. Camilla doesn’t have to wear it




					www.theguardian.com
				




You'd be waiting a long long time for a 43 to crouch end, it doesn't go there


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

...

So now 26 years is half a century








						The US supreme court case that could bring the tech giants to their knees | John Naughton
					

The question of whether social media firms should be responsible for content recommended to users is set to be re-examined – and not before time




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 348382
> ...
> View attachment 348383
> So now 26 years is half a century
> ...


He's counting in cat meme years


----------



## belboid (Oct 23, 2022)

I never knew this was on me doorstep


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2022)

belboid said:


> I never knew this was on me doorstep
> 
> View attachment 348506


Well, it has been pretty windy of late


----------



## Sue (Oct 23, 2022)

belboid said:


> I never knew this was on me doorstep
> 
> View attachment 348506


You've clearly not been paying attention or something.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2022)




----------



## MickiQ (Oct 23, 2022)

belboid said:


> I never knew this was on me doorstep
> 
> View attachment 348506


Looks just like the one I saw on Salisbury Plain there must be two of them.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 23, 2022)

The last time I saw it, it was in Maryhill, Oregon


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2022)

hash tag said:


> The last time I saw it, it was in Maryhill, Oregon
> View attachment 348523


Pretty sure that's the London Bridge Orbital 🤔


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 24, 2022)

Don't forget to leave your heating on though!


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 24, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Don't forget to leave your heating on though!



I saw that article the other day and knew it would turn up here


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 29, 2022)

So basically what the Guardian is saying here is that they don't generally wash their own dishes, they get the help to do it. Perhaps if they washed their own dishes they wouldn't need to wave a bucket  at you everytime you click on one of their articles.









						‘His humility is genuine’: Rishi Sunak’s father-in-law, the billionaire who does the dishes
					

Narayana Murthy drives a small car, cleans his own loo and likes nothing more than to read




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 30, 2022)

A good opinion piece (imo) and part of the reason why there wont be a revolution in the UK 

Disastrous cuts loom, but the Tories have a secret weapon – our weary fatalism | John Harris


----------



## scifisam (Oct 30, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> So basically what the Guardian is saying here is that they don't generally wash their own dishes, they get the help to do it. Perhaps if they washed their own dishes they wouldn't need to wave a bucket  at you everytime you click on one of their articles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No. There's nothing wrong with paying people a reasonable wage to do housework for you. It's a job. And any billionaire that does it is a fucking weird control freak who wants everyone to work except when they're asleep, and would prefer it if they didn't sleep too, and will penny-pinch every single item in their household.

From that article: 

'“I would be in the office at 6.20 every morning till I retired. That sent an indelible message to youngsters about reaching the office on time,” Murthy said in an interview with the Economic Times in July''

That's the kind of message terrible bosses want to send out because they want slaves who will die at 45 of a heart attack and they'll say they just weren't cut out for it.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 31, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> A good opinion piece (imo) and part of the reason why there wont be a revolution in the UK
> 
> Disastrous cuts loom, but the Tories have a secret weapon – our weary fatalism | John Harris


Dunno, seems to me you risk a self-fulfilling prophesy by talking like that. The problem with a lot of the 'left' guardian columnists is they aren't really involved in social movements and that affects how they talk.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 4, 2022)

Ooooh er, missus...


----------



## Cerv (Nov 6, 2022)

In an piece about Schiphol airport. 


> This article was amended on 6 November 2022. The annual cap of 440,000 announced by the Dutch government related to the number of flights, not passenger numbers as a previous version said.



Only out by a couple of orders of magnitude then. 😂









						Climate activists arrested after blocking private jets in Amsterdam airport
					

Sitdown protests are part of a day of demonstrations in and around Amsterdam airport




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 6, 2022)

I'm sorry but fucking nope.









						How to turn brown bananas into a zingy vinegar | Waste not
					

Banana vinegar is rich, aromatic and a fine way to save brown bananas from the food waste bin – simply leave to ferment in the daylight




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## two sheds (Nov 6, 2022)

Cerv said:


> In an piece about Schiphol airport.
> 
> 
> Only out by a couple of orders of magnitude then. 😂
> ...


Is that photograph of a private jet? It's fucking enormous, I thought private jets were smallish type things.


----------



## stavros (Nov 6, 2022)

Channel 4's 40 best shows, ranked.

No Crystal Maze, Countdown at a lowly 40, Father Ted not even the top ranked sitcom.


----------



## belboid (Nov 6, 2022)

All ‘ranked’ articles are wank. Nobbut clickbait


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 6, 2022)

Some decent ones in there, a lot of drivel but ffs... Big Brother at number 1 ?!?!


----------



## Edie (Nov 18, 2022)

Sorry if we’ve had this one before, but this is so so brilliant 









						My son's tattoo hurt me deeply
					

When Tess Morgan's son came home with a tattoo, she was griefstricken. She knew her reaction was OTT (he's 21) but it signalled a change in their relationship




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Edie (Nov 18, 2022)

> As if my son had deliberately turned his back on a light Victoria sponge and stuffed his face with cheap doughnuts.


----------



## Elpenor (Nov 18, 2022)

My Mum would have reacted in that way if my brother or I had got a tattoo


----------



## Dystopiary (Nov 19, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> My Mum would have reacted in that way if my brother or I had got a tattoo


Wrote to the Guardian about it? 😲 😜


----------



## Dystopiary (Nov 19, 2022)

Edie said:


> Sorry if we’ve had this one before, but this is so so brilliant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seen that, can't remember if it was here. That was priceless.


----------



## oryx (Nov 19, 2022)

Edie said:


> Sorry if we’ve had this one before, but this is so so brilliant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bloody hell, she veers from comparing him to a branded sheep to worrying he won't be able to get a job as a lawyer. Absolutely peak Guardian!


----------



## Voley (Nov 19, 2022)

Edie said:


> Sorry if we’ve had this one before, but this is so so brilliant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"The stars are not wanted now: put out every one; pack up the moon and dismantle the sun."


----------



## killer b (Nov 19, 2022)

Its a great article, and has appeared at least twice on the thread before (butchers reckoned it was a pisstake in 2017, but I'm not sure what his source of this info was)


----------



## Edie (Nov 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> Its a great article, and has appeared at least twice on the thread before (butchers reckoned it was a pisstake in 2017, but I'm not sure what his source of this info was)


Lovely piece of work if so. I burst out laughing twice reading it.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 20, 2022)

Be grateful.


----------



## Edie (Nov 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Be grateful.
> 
> View attachment 352238


Where’s the vomit smiley. I fucking hate the Guardian. Loads of shock pieces about kids with nothing in their lunchboxes and hand wringing about people freezing in their homes. Then that shit which shows the people who write have no fucking idea. Jack Monroe. Go fuck yourself.


----------



## LDC (Nov 20, 2022)

Edie said:


> Where’s the vomit smiley. I fucking hate the Guardian. Loads of shock pieces about kids with nothing in their lunchboxes and hand wringing about people freezing in their homes. Then that shit which shows the people who write have no fucking idea. Jack Monroe. Go fuck yourself.


----------



## belboid (Nov 28, 2022)

I thought for a moment the headline was trying to make some 'witty' pun about the Games and its sponsors or something, but no, they just can't spell.


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 28, 2022)

Surprise this one hasn't been posted, giving space to the Education minister Keegan no less to argue that strikes are unnecessary, and then writing another article that just one-sidedly re-iterates her position


----------



## Sue (Nov 28, 2022)

'England never gets Scotland right.' says Simon Jenkins. And then goes on to prove his point...  









						Dear PM, if Scots want closer links with Europe, why not? Let’s have a Scottish protocol | Simon Jenkins
					

Rishi Sunak has gloated at the supreme court’s rebuff to Nicola Sturgeon. He’d be better off fashioning a proper devolution deal, says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> 'England never gets Scotland right.' says Simon Jenkins. And then goes on to prove his point...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's pleading not kilty


----------



## two sheds (Nov 29, 2022)

Urgent surgery ‘may be postponed’ by nurses’ strikes, say NHS bosses
					

Trusts may also have to suspend chemotherapy, kidney dialysis and other key elements of healthcare




					www.theguardian.com
				




Alternative headline: "Urgent surgery 'may be postponed' by government refusals to pay nurses a living wage, say nurses"


----------



## BristolEcho (Nov 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Urgent surgery ‘may be postponed’ by nurses’ strikes, say NHS bosses
> 
> 
> Trusts may also have to suspend chemotherapy, kidney dialysis and other key elements of healthcare
> ...


Yes that fucked me off.


----------



## belboid (Dec 7, 2022)

> Rania Hunaishi, 25, a student with a one-year-old who is currently pregnant



I think that would be a bigger story than the one which the sentence occurs. 









						Sheffield residents face fifth day without heat after gas main flooded
					

Gas company Cadent distributed electric heaters, but residents were told to stop using them after grid breach




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Karl Masks (Dec 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> I think that would be a bigger story than the one which the sentence occurs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


utterly fucking disgraceful. This country is the wild fucking west right now, and the Tories will do precisely the square root of shit all


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 7, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> utterly fucking disgraceful. This country is the wild fucking west right now, and the Tories will do precisely the square root of shit all


So what do you propose? Just voting out the tories?


----------



## ska invita (Dec 7, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> So what do you propose? Just voting out the tories?


post a really savage meme


----------



## two sheds (Dec 7, 2022)

Or NOT vote out the tories that'll learn em.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Or NOT vote out the tories that'll learn em.


Who should we all vote for then?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Dec 7, 2022)

ska invita said:


> post a really savage meme


Wouldn't surprise me if thats part of it for him, aswell as posting a load of electoralist stuff about how the problem is the tories all day.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 12, 2022)

They just can't let it lie, can they


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> utterly fucking disgraceful. This country is the wild fucking west right now, and the Tories will do precisely the square root of shit all


If only it was the wild west. But there's sadly fuck all chance of seeing sunak gunned down inside a saloon.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 12, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> They just can't let it lie, can they
> 
> View attachment 355448



Oh for goodness sake


----------



## Dystopiary (Dec 13, 2022)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 13, 2022)

Breakthrough in nuclear fusion could mean ‘near-limitless energy’
					

Researchers managed to release more energy than they put in: a positive gain known as ignition




					www.theguardian.com
				




It is not possible for anything to be 'near limitless'. If there is a limit, even an arbitrarily large one, then you are infinitely far from limitless.

Also the 0.4MJ of 'free' energy actually cost 500MJ of electrical energy. The equivalent of consuming an entire sack of potatoes to produce one chip.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 13, 2022)

Too cheap to meter  .


----------



## 8ball (Dec 13, 2022)

But what if we solve global warming, lift the remainder of the world out of extreme poverty and create a world of massive plenty and then people continue to consume in ways I disapprove of?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> But what if we solve global warming, lift the remainder of the world out of extreme poverty and create a world of massive plenty and then people continue to consume in ways I disapprove of?


Luxury Capitalism


----------



## 8ball (Dec 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Luxury Capitalism



And I thought the “how many people are ignoring you” thread was weird..


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> But what if we solve global warming, lift the remainder of the world out of extreme poverty and create a world of massive plenty and then people continue to consume in ways I disapprove of?


You can start threads about it


----------



## TopCat (Dec 14, 2022)

Fucking shocking








						Mick Lynch is right – the BBC has swallowed the anti-strike agenda of the Daily Mail | Zoe Williams
					

The RMT leader says the broadcaster has taken the rightwing press’s line when it comes to workers’ rights. He has a point, says Guardian columnist Zoe Williams




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 14, 2022)

It hasn’t even started yet and it’s nil nil already


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 14, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It hasn’t even started yet and it’s nil nil already
> View attachment 355659


It would be a surprise if it was otherwise


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 14, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It hasn’t even started yet and it’s nil nil already
> View attachment 355659



I think Morocco will be pleased with that so far


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 16, 2022)

‘Absolutely shameless’: Ken Loach says BBC helped ‘destroy’ Jeremy Corbyn
					

Director says media has ‘rewritten history’ to expunge ex-Labour leader and attacks Starmer regime for ‘manipulating the rules’




					www.theguardian.com
				







			
				The Grauniad said:
			
		

> Absolutely shameless’: Ken Loach says BBC helped ‘destroy’ Jeremy Corbyn



Is the headline...

Further into the article, not shouting quite so loud about...




			
				The Guardian said:
			
		

> Loach said the Guardian was a “joint offender” alongside the BBC in the coverage of Corbyn. “As part of the liberal media, when those two led the silence on this extraordinary story, then of course the rightwing press will make the most of it,” he said.


----------



## nottsgirl (Dec 16, 2022)

I read it so you don’t have to. Why I enjoyed my yoga holiday in Bali.









						Time away from my usual routine made me realise what was missing | Katie Cunningham
					

I’d forgotten holidays aren’t just a chance to relax, but an opportunity to pause, reflect and reassess




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2022)

The Guardian and Observer charity telethon 2022: call our writers to donate
					

Help those struggling with the cost of living by calling writers including Marina Hyde, John Crace and Polly Toynbee with your donation




					www.theguardian.com
				




donate a tenner to hear some of the jokes that didn't make it into Crace's latest column.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 17, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> The Guardian and Observer charity telethon 2022: call our writers to donate
> 
> 
> Help those struggling with the cost of living by calling writers including Marina Hyde, John Crace and Polly Toynbee with your donation
> ...


If you only give a quid, he tells you all of them 😥


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 17, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> If you only give a quid, he tells you all of them 😥


Should have a charity stocks. I'd pay a decent amount to throw rocks at Toynbee


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 17, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Should have a charity stocks. I'd pay a decent amount to throw rocks at Toynbee


She'd only find a way to turn it into a book and a six-part 'first person investigative documentary' on Radio 4


----------



## Cerv (Dec 21, 2022)

the Guardian office has had internal systems knocked out by a ransomware attack. although they say it'll not affect publishing to the website or print copies.






						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com
				



Welcome to nginx! (paywall busting link)

that's a lot of xmas breaks about to be ruined in the IT dept


----------



## LDC (Dec 25, 2022)

Should my girlfriend’s dog stop sleeping in our bed?
					

She lets the dog spend the night with them; he thinks it’s gross. You make the call on where sleeping dogs should lie




					www.theguardian.com
				




Surely this doesn't deserve an article, the answer is obvious; dump him and get another Jack Russell that can't write letters to The Guardian.


----------



## oryx (Dec 25, 2022)

LDC said:


> Should my girlfriend’s dog stop sleeping in our bed?
> 
> 
> She lets the dog spend the night with them; he thinks it’s gross. You make the call on where sleeping dogs should lie
> ...


They should just rename that You Be The Judge column as First World Problems!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 26, 2022)

Should you ignore your partner's wishes? Um, no. Next.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 26, 2022)

dog sleeping in the bed it is then


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 27, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Should you ignore your partner's wishes? Um, no. Next.


If the dog precedes the partner, yes. If the partner precedes the dog, no.

But I wouldn't let the dog sleep on the bed anyway.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

Wonderful:


----------



## NoXion (Dec 27, 2022)

Not many great choices all round though, are there? I'm guessing that electric heating is best environment-wise, but I know that it costs an absolute bomb even at the best of times, never mind with today's electricity prices. I have electric heating only and I basically never use it because of how ridiculously it canes my meter.

Hence why I try to refrain from getting all judgemental over the heating choices of other individuals. We all operate under a broken system that needed fixing decades ago.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2022)

I am judging Monbiotic. Such a bellend.


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Not many great choices all round though, are there? I'm guessing that electric heating is best environment-wise, but I know that it costs an absolute bomb even at the best of times, never mind with today's electricity prices. I have electric heating only and I basically never use it because of how ridiculously it canes my meter.
> 
> Hence why I try to refrain from getting all judgemental over the heating choices of other individuals. We all operate under a broken system that needed fixing decades ago.


We run an air exchanger here, they got put in free or cheap in a government scheme to stop solid fuel burning. Does a decent job in a cold continental climate and not too expensive in terms of power though notice fair few neighbours have kept the heated platform beds that are traditional and you burn fuel to heat. Even cheap electric is tough for pensioners with not much Cash who also have access to wood.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Not many great choices all round though, are there? I'm guessing that electric heating is best environment-wise, but I know that it costs an absolute bomb even at the best of times, never mind with today's electricity prices. I have electric heating only and I basically never use it because of how ridiculously it canes my meter.
> 
> Hence why I try to refrain from getting all judgemental over the heating choices of other individuals. We all operate under a broken system that needed fixing decades ago.


That’s not the reason I posted the headline though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> I am judging Monbiotic. Such a bellend.


Well yes. He invites mockery with such columns, despite his good intentions


----------



## metalguru (Dec 27, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> That’s not the reason I posted the headline though.


idgi


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

metalguru said:


> idgi


pardon?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 27, 2022)

I don't get it


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> I don't get it


get what?


----------



## stavros (Dec 27, 2022)

Hotel Chocolat's new vegan manufacturing process cuts the number of staff required from 36 to 6, which in Graun eyes seems to be a good thing.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 27, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> get what?


IDGI


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 27, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> IDGI


ah ok. there's nothing to get though. this is where we mock Grauniad headlines, no? and that one is peak Grauniad journo seemingly unaware of their own privileges


----------



## TopCat (Dec 27, 2022)

I bet he can afford to have them ripped out and scrapped


----------



## Elpenor (Dec 27, 2022)

Confusing two Pasifika rugby coaches

Bristol coach is Pat Lam



Harlequins coach is Tabai Matson


----------



## two sheds (Dec 31, 2022)

Greta Thunberg ends year with one of the greatest tweets in history
					

Thunberg’s funny exchange is a reminder of the connection between machismo, misogyny and hostility to climate action




					www.theguardian.com
				




One of the greatest tweets in the history of the world


----------



## brogdale (Dec 31, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Greta Thunberg ends year with one of the greatest tweets in history
> 
> 
> Thunberg’s funny exchange is a reminder of the connection between machismo, misogyny and hostility to climate action
> ...


evah!


----------



## agricola (Dec 31, 2022)

A pretty good correction today (from here):



> This article was corrected on 31 December 2022 because it said King Charles III was the head of the Roman Catholic church in England and Wales. He is the head of the Church of England.


----------



## elbows (Jan 4, 2023)

UK sets new record for wind power generation
					

New record of 87.2% also set for share of electricity on grid coming from renewables and nuclear




					www.theguardian.com
				






> In May, National Grid had to ask some turbines in the west of Scotland to shut down, as the network was unable to store such a large amount of electricity when a then record 19.9GW of power was produced – enough to boil 3.5m kettles.



Transport/transmit, not store.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 4, 2023)

so many kettles


----------



## elbows (Jan 4, 2023)

two sheds said:


> so many kettles



Once we've dug a big enough hole to keep all of those storage kettles in, our ability to rely exclusively on the variable supply that wind offers will be complete, according to new analysis by the Guardian


----------



## elbows (Jan 4, 2023)

19.9GW is enough to power over 2 trillion Guardian typing errors.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 4, 2023)

elbows said:


> UK sets new record for wind power generation
> 
> 
> New record of 87.2% also set for share of electricity on grid coming from renewables and nuclear
> ...


Is this not the issue with wind generated electricity, we cannot store it?


----------



## TopCat (Jan 4, 2023)

hash tag said:


> Is this not the issue with wind generated electricity, we cannot store it?


We can’t store any electricity from any source. No big banks of batteries. It’s generate it and use it.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 4, 2023)

TopCat said:


> We can’t store any electricity from any source. No big banks of batteries. It’s generate it and use it.


Exactly, but the article referred to wind power.


----------



## youbeauty (Jan 4, 2023)

TopCat said:


> We can’t store any electricity from any source. No big banks of batteries. It’s generate it and use it.


We can (and do) use pumped storage hydro to store excess electrical energy as gravitational potential energy.


----------



## tommers (Jan 4, 2023)

A Keir Starmer government might be more radical than you think | Michael Jacobs
					

The party’s policies on the economy, devolution, workers’ rights and the environment pack a punch, writes professor of political economy Michael Jacobs




					www.theguardian.com
				




oh, it's that time again.


----------



## TopCat (Jan 4, 2023)

youbeauty said:


> We can (and do) use pumped storage hydro to store excess electrical energy as gravitational potential energy.


So we pump water up a hill so we can let it go when we want and generate lecky?
Are there many examples?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 4, 2023)

youbeauty said:


> We can (and do) use pumped storage hydro to store excess electrical energy as gravitational potential energy.



Current UK pumped storage capacity is trivial though IIRC.

e2a: Total UK capacity is 2.4 gigawatts. Demand at the time of writing this sentence is 37 gigawatts.


----------



## elbows (Jan 4, 2023)

Storage is one of the things we'll aim to have a hell of a lot more of in future as part of the flexibility electricity system. It could easily end up being the difference between success and failure in terms of our energy transition.

Its modest part of the historic and current UK picture is why I was having a go at the Guardian for going on about storage instead of transmission. We do move a hell of a lot of electricity southwards, from Scotland to England and from northern England to southern England. There are various projects to expand further on this in the years ahead, plenty of bottlenecks at the moment.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 4, 2023)

SpookyFrank said:


> Current UK pumped storage capacity is trivial though IIRC.
> 
> e2a: Total UK capacity is 2.4 gigawatts. Demand at the time of writing this sentence is 37 gigawatts.



That doesn’t even get you to 1985 and back.


----------



## elbows (Jan 4, 2023)

Even a gigawatt or two becomes very important during peak times if things are on the tight side for various other reasons. Its all about spare margins then, and maintaining any kind of buffer.

France has a lot more hydro to help cope with particular moments.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 4, 2023)

And all of it replaces burning gas at that particular time. We should be aiming towards only burning gas when there's no renewables available.


----------



## youbeauty (Jan 4, 2023)

TopCat said:


> So we pump water up a hill so we can let it go when we want and generate lecky?
> Are there many examples?


Not many but there's this one: 
Britain's largest battery is actually a lake
YouTube · Tom Scott


----------



## Thaw (Jan 5, 2023)

TopCat said:


> We can’t store any electricity from any source. No big banks of batteries. It’s generate it and use it.


They are starting to put in batteries at windfarms, for example:








						Battery at Pen y Cymoedd
					

Battery at Pen y Cymoedd is located at Vattenfall's largest onshore wind farm in South Wales. The project is an innovation in grid stabilisation services. The battery can respond in less than a second to the needs of the Nationl Grid to help keep a stable supply of electricity to UK homes




					group.vattenfall.com


----------



## LDC (Saturday at 8:37 AM)

This is more like humanity/common sense going down the pan tbh...









						TikTok car-fishing craze leads to closure of ancient Rufford ford
					

Council steps in after videos on social media turn Nottinghamshire river crossing into viral tourist attraction




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## hash tag (Saturday at 10:33 AM)

"The councillor said the ever-growing online attention had caused people to attempt riskier crossings in recent months. “There was a motorcyclist who approached it at 50mph, went full pelt, and came straight off head over heels over the handlebars. He went so fast he bounced all the way along the water before collapsing on the other side in a heap. It is life-threatening.” 😂


----------



## hash tag (Saturday at 10:37 AM)

LDC said:


> This is more like humanity/common sense going down the pan tbh...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This could easily be in the motoring threads 👍


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Saturday at 10:42 AM)

hash tag said:


> This could easily be in the motoring threads 👍


Nice avatar


----------



## brogdale (Sunday at 12:30 PM)




----------



## strung out (Sunday at 1:38 PM)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 358758


What's the issue?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sunday at 1:54 PM)

hash tag said:


> "The councillor said the ever-growing online attention had caused people to attempt riskier crossings in recent months. “There was a motorcyclist who approached it at 50mph, went full pelt, and came straight off head over heels over the handlebars. He went so fast he bounced all the way along the water before collapsing on the other side in a heap. It is life-threatening.” 😂



Seems like someone mankind can probably do without tbh.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sunday at 5:38 PM)

strung out said:


> What's the issue?


Innit - a Ukrainian writer and activist showcasing Ukrainian winter recipes in winter. I'm gonna check them out. She's done some interesting recipes - Western stereotypical thinking is that it's all cabbage and spuds, but not from what I've read of Hercules so far


----------



## strung out (Monday at 8:54 AM)

Orang Utan said:


> Innit - a Ukrainian writer and activist showcasing Ukrainian winter recipes in winter. I'm gonna check them out. She's done some interesting recipes - Western stereotypical thinking is that it's all cabbage and spuds, but not from what I've read of Hercules so far


Yep. Interested to hear what the issue is brogdale


----------



## stavros (Monday at 6:06 PM)

Note to Graun subeditors: look up the difference between numbers and percentages, which you should find in Key Stage 2 of the National Curriculum, i.e. for 10-11 year olds.


----------



## 8ball (Tuesday at 1:09 PM)

Thaw said:


> They are starting to put in batteries at windfarms, for example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks less like storage than a bit of buffering.


----------



## TopCat (Tuesday at 4:03 PM)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 358758


But can they pronounce the names of the dishes correctly? That would show full solidarity


----------



## hash tag (Wednesday at 6:40 PM)

Potholes and Chile's 🤔
cupid_stunt this one's for you I think 








						How have I changed in 2023? I have become an avid pothole activist | Adrian Chiles
					

A whopper on the A4118 tipped me over the edge from merely tutting to reporting the offending cavity to the council. My dog was not impressed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Orang Utan (Wednesday at 7:45 PM)

TopCat said:


> But can they pronounce the names of the dishes correctly? That would show full solidarity


Yes, cos the writer is Ukrainian


----------



## killer b (Wednesday at 7:46 PM)

wtf


----------



## Orang Utan (Wednesday at 7:52 PM)

So many asinine personal pieces like this that need never have been typed: A moment that changed me: I watched a bomb-disposal robot from my window and my old life faded away


----------



## Sue (Yesterday at 11:32 AM)

Orang Utan said:


> So many asinine personal pieces like this that need never have been typed: A moment that changed me: I watched a bomb-disposal robot from my window and my old life faded away


Three minutes of my life I'll never get back.  I can't believe they pay (presumably) for such vacuous (and _boring_) nonsense.


----------



## Elpenor (Yesterday at 11:35 AM)

Read like an updated version of the twats you met travelling as described in Are You Experienced?


----------



## TopCat (Yesterday at 11:41 AM)

Sue said:


> Three minutes of my life I'll never get back.  I can't believe they pay (presumably) for such vacuous (and _boring_) nonsense.


Is it a columnist’s son? Or one of their fuck boys? Arrgh


----------



## pbsmooth (Yesterday at 12:04 PM)

his partner appears to be the commissioning editor...









						Play nicely! The fun and frustrations of gaming with your partner
					

Quality time together or the guaranteed path to a breakup? Either way, over the pandemic more and more couples have been giving co-operative video games a try




					www.theguardian.com
				





			https://twitter.com/chrispjgodfrey


----------



## nogojones (Yesterday at 12:10 PM)

hash tag said:


> Is this not the issue with wind generated electricity, we cannot store it?


We could fill big balloons, which we could then release later when demand peaks. They're really just not thinking hard enough about these issues


----------



## nogojones (Yesterday at 12:15 PM)

strung out said:


> What's the issue?


Recreate that authentic Ukrainian dining experience by turning off the fridge, heating and lighting, whilst collecting your mineral water from a locally sourced puddle for your next dinner party.


----------



## Orang Utan (Yesterday at 8:43 PM)

nogojones said:


> Recreate that authentic Ukrainian dining experience by turning off the fridge, heating and lighting, whilst collecting your mineral water from a locally sourced puddle for your next dinner party.


Nope: 








						Crunchy ferments, stuffed spuds, garlicky beets: Olia Hercules’ recipes for Ukrainian winter vegetable sides
					

Three dynamic side dishes from eastern Europe: a crunchy winter slaw of apples, pickles and celery, earthy beetroot in a punchy, garlic-and-nut sauce, and roast potatoes stuffed with mushrooms and feta




					www.theguardian.com


----------

