# Liz Truss’s time is up



## Dogsauce (Jul 6, 2022)

A placeholder…


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 6, 2022)




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## Leighsw2 (Jul 20, 2022)




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## steveseagull (Jul 20, 2022)

It could well be up. She wants the Queen abolished


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## 8ball (Jul 21, 2022)

Well, I for one am looking forward to the pork markets.


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## stdP (Jul 21, 2022)

I'm going to sit and wait patiently for when she's spotted disgracefully enjoying a spot of mozzarella or jarlsberg.


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## Bingoman (Jul 21, 2022)

stdP said:


> I'm going to sit and wait patiently for when she's spotted disgracefully enjoying a spot of mozzarella or jarlsberg.


According to reports earlier she was enjoys some champagne


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## platinumsage (Jul 21, 2022)

Is she still enjoying Kwasi Kwarteng? Bet she makes him chancellor or some shit.


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## LDC (Jul 21, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> It could well be up. She wants the Queen abolished




She seems like was a better speaker and had more personality then than now.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 21, 2022)




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## Micky D (Jul 21, 2022)




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## Supine (Jul 21, 2022)

Good takedown









						Shapeshifter Liz Truss is on a roll as version 3.0 hits Tory sweet spot | John Crace
					

It’s exhausting, keeping up with her journey. It’s almost as if she doesn’t believe in anything at all




					www.theguardian.com


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## GarveyLives (Jul 22, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Is she still enjoying *Kwasi Kwarteng*? ...



Is it possible that you are confusing *Truss* with her former colleague *Amber Rudd*?

*Truss* committed adultery with former - but then serving - Conservative MP *Mark Field* for 18 months, which led to his wife divorcing him.


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## GarveyLives (Jul 30, 2022)

Everyone has now been warned:

_‘Ambition greater than ability’_: Liz Truss’s rise from teen Lib Dem to would-be PM





*“She was the most ambitious person many people had encountered. I honestly believe she was given jobs – ministerial promotions – just to shut her up. Her ambition is, undoubtedly, considerably greater than her ability,”*


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## Tanya1982 (Jul 30, 2022)

As the last few holders of the office make clear, Liz Truss will be the worst PM we've ever had - taking us to new and previously unimagined lows - until the next one.


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## marty21 (Jul 30, 2022)

All I can say is that she can take my stinky French cheese from my cold dead hands 😡


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## quiet guy (Jul 30, 2022)

*“... I honestly believe she was given jobs – ministerial promotions – just to shut her up. Her ambition is, undoubtedly, considerably greater than her ability" *
that statement could apply to most of the government ministers in recent years


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## 8ball (Jul 30, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> *“... I honestly believe she was given jobs – ministerial promotions – just to shut her up. Her ambition is, undoubtedly, considerably greater than her ability" *
> that statement could apply to most of the government ministers in recent years



I think they most likely have quite an array of ways to wheedle their way in.

“Being annoying” is a pretty niche one imo.


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## Elpenor (Jul 30, 2022)

8ball said:


> I think they most likely have quite an array of ways to wheedle their way in.
> 
> “Being annoying” is a pretty niche one imo.



Hasn’t worked for me at work!


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## brogdale (Jul 30, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> *“... I honestly believe she was given jobs – ministerial promotions – just to shut her up. Her ambition is, undoubtedly, considerably greater than her ability" *
> that statement could apply to most of the government ministers in recent years


You say that, but haven’t working people got poorer, the rentiers got richer, the regressive transfer of wealth accelerated, the tax burden shifted from capital to labour, the public sector starved, attacked and privatised? They’re all showing real ability to work in the interests of capital.


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## GarveyLives (Aug 3, 2022)

The shape(shifter) of things to come?:

Tory leadership: Pay public sector workers in regions differently, says Truss

Analysis: Liz Truss's Plan To Pay Public Sector Workers Less Outside London _Wasn't_ 'Misrepresented'

‘The new dementia tax’: Truss’s U-turn is first real howler of Tory leadership race






*This. Is. A. Dis. Grace.*​


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## PR1Berske (Aug 3, 2022)




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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 5, 2022)




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## LDC (Aug 5, 2022)

That meme is as shit as she is.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



our best days will be when we have ejected the cabal of wankers in parliament and moved to a better way of doing things.


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## AmateurAgitator (Aug 5, 2022)

LDC said:


> That meme is as shit as she is.


Your face is much shitter  🤪


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## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Your face is much shitter


that's him told


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## Serge Forward (Aug 5, 2022)

Ouch.


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## andysays (Aug 5, 2022)

LDC said:


> That meme is as shit as she is.


Shitter, TBH


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 5, 2022)

During Sky's leadership debate last night, if you can call it that as Truss refused to do the usual format and insisted they appeared separately, Kay Burley read out a list of U-turns that Truss has done over the years, then said, 'would the real Liz Truss please stand up', much to the amusement of the studio audience.


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## A380 (Aug 16, 2022)




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## brogdale (Aug 16, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 337925


_thartcher _caught my eye, immediately thought of the word_ shart_


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## Pickman's model (Aug 16, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 337925


Don't stabbees receive the knife as opposed to stabbers?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 16, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 337925


in his book 'modern ireland 1600-1972' roy foster talks about the effusion of poetry written by fenians how so much of it was awful. and so much of it is awful, even if people like john o'leary tried to keep the worst excesses from seeing the light of day, or rather print in a newspaper. but even the worst sentimental twaddle published in newspapers like the irishman or universal news was far far superior to utter shit like the offering above


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## 8ball (Aug 16, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 337925



This must be a parody.


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## A380 (Aug 16, 2022)

8ball said:


> This must be a parody.


I bloody hope so.


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## brogdale (Aug 16, 2022)

Dunno where the polling's from, but...whatever...that top-line take is hilarious:


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## Storm Fox (Aug 16, 2022)

'Come on plebs, work harder for your masters, and be thankful they deign to give you a job.'









						Leaked audio reveals Liz Truss said British workers needed ‘more graft’
					

Exclusive: Tory leadership frontrunner suggested Britons lacked ‘skill and application’, in echo of ‘idlers’ row




					www.theguardian.com
				






> Liz Truss, now the Tory leadership frontrunner, launched an astonishing broadside against British workers, saying they needed “more graft” and suggesting they lacked the “skill and application” of foreign rivals, the Guardian can reveal.



Also if they think workers lack skills, then surely companies and government should invest more in training and education.


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## CyberRose (Aug 16, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 337925


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## Tanya1982 (Aug 16, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> According to reports earlier she was enjoys some champagne


Lots of people do. It's very nice. Few however, would dare to bill the taxpayer for Mayfair mark ups, and to drink so fucking much of it at lunch. If she was able to walk to her car unaided after putting away what she did, then being that blind drunk can only be a regular occurrence. If she wasn't able to, then her judgement for what's appropriate behaviour in front of foreign diplomats at working lunches is shot. Either way, it's a testament to her complete incompetence.


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## hash tag (Aug 17, 2022)

She is really not endearing herself to me, but why would a tory.
Yesterday she said Brits are a bunch of lazy bastards and says we should all work harder and now she says she doesn't give a fuck about animal rights


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## Sasaferrato (Aug 17, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Dunno where the polling's from, but...whatever...that top-line take is hilarious:
> 
> View attachment 337995


It will happen. And not temporarily.

It is the only 'win the next election' solution. Do it in the way that the transport industry was nationalised after WWII.


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## brogdale (Aug 17, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> It will happen. And not temporarily.
> 
> It is the only 'win the next election' solution. Do it in the way that the transport industry was nationalised after WWII.


I'd like to agree with you, but not a hope in hell IMO. 
The consolidator state and the neoliberal ideologues managing it will always defend (unearned) wealth and use tax derived from labour to subsidise businesses with corporate welfare. Nationalising goes against every tenet of their world view.


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## 8ball (Aug 17, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I'd like to agree with you, but not a hope in hell IMO.
> The consolidator state and the neoliberal ideologues managing it will always defend (unearned) wealth and use tax derived from labour to subsidise businesses with corporate welfare. Nationalising goes against every tenet of their world view.



Gonna be a fight…


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## brogdale (Aug 17, 2022)

8ball said:


> Gonna be a fight…


Maybe, but not a parliamentary one...Starmer's onboard with the consolidator state's objectives.


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## Sasaferrato (Aug 17, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I'd like to agree with you, but not a hope in hell IMO.
> The consolidator state and the neoliberal ideologues managing it will always defend (unearned) wealth and use tax derived from labour to subsidise businesses with corporate welfare. Nationalising goes against every tenet of their world view.



Saving their seats at the next election will be the paramount objective. Millions of people being hauled into court for non-payment of fuel bills will not be allowed to happen.

I don't know if you are aware of what happened in the transport industry post war, companies were taken into public ownership, and the prior owner issued with British Transport Stock certificates to the value of their business. The stock had a fixed dividend, 3% IIRC. My mother had some income from this, as her late father's business was nationalised.


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## Artaxerxes (Aug 17, 2022)

She really has it in for the green energy levy according to her comments in Norn.

Let’s leave aside we’ve just had the driest year since god knows when, drier than 76 and more fires than the fire service can cope with.

The green energy stuff adds a mere few percent to the bills and cutting it doesn’t encourage business to build more fucking capacity or give us cheaper bills.


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## RainbowTown (Aug 17, 2022)

hash tag said:


> She is really not endearing herself to me, but why would a tory.
> Yesterday she said Brits are a bunch of lazy bastards and says we should all work harder and now she says she doesn't give a fuck about animal rights


Truly, a face only a Tory could love.


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## brogdale (Aug 17, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Saving their seats at the next election will be the paramount objective. Millions of people being hauled into court for non-payment of fuel bills will not be allowed to happen.
> 
> I don't know if you are aware of what happened in the transport industry post war, companies were taken into public ownership, and the prior owner issued with British Transport Stock certificates to the value of their business. The stock had a fixed dividend, 3% IIRC. My mother had some income from this, as her late father's business was nationalised.


I agree that, electorally, the vermin will have to come up with something to stop 1/4 of the population being prosecuted for non-payment etc....but it won't be nationalisation. They will, as I said, subsidise the losses to capital by using tax-payers £ & borrowing to make up the loss payments. A win/win for Truss; she buys the Sunak/furlough-style gratitude of the ill-informed masses and maintains returns to capital for the corporations.


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## tim (Aug 17, 2022)

GarveyLives said:


> Is it possible that you are confusing *Truss* with her former colleague *Amber Rudd*?
> 
> *Truss* committed adultery with former - but then serving - Conservative MP *Mark Field* for 18 months, which led to his wife divorcing him.



Truss and Rudd are on the Tory Whips secret blackmail list because of their relationships with Kwasi Kwertang.


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## Supine (Aug 18, 2022)




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## isvicthere? (Aug 18, 2022)

A380 said:


> View attachment 337925



I feel an opportunity to (almost) rhyme "snowflakes" with "cornflakes" has been lost here. Also: who are these "Brians"?


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## isvicthere? (Aug 18, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> 'Come on plebs, work harder for your masters, and be thankful they deign to give you a job.'


 Hoiw long before expecting to be paid for working is derided as "woke"?


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## PR1Berske (Aug 25, 2022)




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## bemused (Aug 26, 2022)

Lol ... GBN run a poll about Liz Truss and made a word cloud of the responses. It's fucking glorious.


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## PR1Berske (Aug 26, 2022)




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## SpookyFrank (Aug 26, 2022)

bemused said:


> Lol ... GBN run a poll about Liz Truss and made a word cloud of the responses. It's fucking glorious.




'Idiot' was robbed I reckon.


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## two sheds (Aug 27, 2022)

Priti Patel ‘to be axed from cabinet if Liz Truss becomes prime minister’
					

Liz Truss will promote loyalists and rising stars such as Kemi Badenoch to her new Cabinet, report suggests




					www.independent.co.uk
				






> Priti Patel ‘to be axed from cabinet if Liz Truss becomes prime minister’​






> Liz Truss will promote loyalists and rising stars such as Kemi Badenoch to her new Cabinet, report suggests ​


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## steveo87 (Aug 27, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Priti Patel ‘to be axed from cabinet if Liz Truss becomes prime minister’
> 
> 
> Liz Truss will promote loyalists and rising stars such as Kemi Badenoch to her new Cabinet, report suggests
> ...


I get the feeling that Patel is being axed for not being right wing enough.


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## brogdale (Aug 27, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I get the feeling that Patel is being axed for not being right wing enough.


Or that La Truss is so incompetent that, unlike blustercunt, she doesn't even realise that she needs to surround herself with complete incompetents to look "good" by comparison.


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## Elpenor (Aug 27, 2022)

Badenoch pairs her malevolence with a concerning amount of competence


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## SysOut (Aug 27, 2022)

Being a time of crisis, she should form a national government with Labour. Good old WW2 stuff. Then start bombing somewhere. Curfew, lockdown and homeguard - make Thatcher look like a wimp, and blow away any of Johnsons pretensions.


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## magneze (Aug 27, 2022)

France looking likely.


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## two sheds (Aug 27, 2022)

yeh she'll be after their cheese


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## LDC (Aug 27, 2022)

magneze said:


> France looking likely.



The great cheese war of 2022-2023.


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## magneze (Aug 27, 2022)

Liz Truss and her cybermouse army.


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## alex_ (Aug 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I'd like to agree with you, but not a hope in hell IMO.
> The consolidator state and the neoliberal ideologues managing it will always defend (unearned) wealth and use tax derived from labour to subsidise businesses with corporate welfare. Nationalising goes against every tenet of their world view.



Otoh all British nuclear power stations are owned by the French state


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## brogdale (Aug 27, 2022)

alex_ said:


> Otoh all British nuclear power stations are owned by the French state


True, but that hardly makes it more likely that the UK state would nationalise them as Sasaferrato suggested would happen.


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## alex_ (Aug 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> True, but that hardly makes it more likely that the UK state would nationalise them as Sasaferrato suggested would happen.



I’m pretty sure the jury is out on this


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## brogdale (Aug 27, 2022)

alex_ said:


> I’m pretty sure the jury is out on this


Only if we confuse superstructural nationalism deployed for electoral purpose with the neoliberalism of the base.


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## steveo87 (Aug 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Or that La Truss is so incompetent that, unlike blustercunt, she doesn't even realise that she needs to surround herself with complete incompetents to look "good" by comparison.


Actually good point


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## SysOut (Aug 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Only if we confuse superstructural nationalism deployed for electoral purpose with the neoliberalism of the base.


If nationalisation is used to bail out shareholders, no one complains.
The post-WW2 nationalisations were such; Churchills reasons for nationalising BP:


> Churchill was a believer. He thought Britain needed a dedicated oil supply, and he argued the case in Parliament, urging his colleagues to “look out upon the wide expanse of the oil regions of the world!” Only the British-owned Anglo-Persian Oil Company, he said, could protect British interests.The resolution passed resoundingly, and the UK government became a major shareholder in the company. Churchill had ended Anglo-Persian’s cash crisis, and no one had long to quietly ponder the long-term implications of a company entwining its financial interests with a political entity.


In truth neither liberalism nor neoliberalism has an ideolgy. There is the principle that "money has no master" and that includes ideologies. The abstract nouns and ideologies are used to justify the aim: profit.

Thus nationalisations and cartels are acceptable as long as they are democratic in the original sense, which has nothing to do with the inhabitants voting for parties 

So a cartel should be open to all in the same sector. E.g., Microsoft and all the other major phone makers (except Apple) are in a cartel which owns many of the major patents needed for phones.

The present war between the West and Russia is the same as the Opium Wars with China - it boils down to forcing Russia to have an  "Open Door" business policy


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## brogdale (Aug 27, 2022)

SysOut said:


> If nationalisation is used to bail out shareholders, no one complains.
> The post-WW2 nationalisations were such; Churchills reasons for nationalising BP:
> 
> In truth neither liberalism nor neoliberalism has an ideolgy. There is the principle that "money has no master" and that includes ideologies. The abstract nouns and ideologies are used to justify the aim: profit.
> ...


But drawing parallels with the mid 20thC nationalisations seems to ignore the neoliberal structural changes to global capital. RepDem politicians no longer represent national interests, they're merely there to ensure that the consolidator state is managed to maximise the transfer of wealth from earned to unearned. Furthermore the corporations responsible for the energy crisis are hardly in need of 'bailing out'; much more effective to use tax revenues on labour to subsidise the continued corporate profit gouging.


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## SysOut (Aug 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> the consolidator state is managed to maximise the transfer of wealth from earned to unearned.


Indeed. John Major's UK Plc?
(which also includes the monarchy, the usual elephant in the room in UK politics).


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## Artaxerxes (Aug 27, 2022)

SysOut said:


> If nationalisation is used to bail out shareholders, no one complains.
> The post-WW2 nationalisations were such; Churchills reasons for nationalising BP:
> 
> In truth neither liberalism nor neoliberalism has an ideolgy. There is the principle that "money has no master" and that includes ideologies. The abstract nouns and ideologies are used to justify the aim: profit.
> ...




Russia had an open door, so open it spent huge swathes of money buying politicians around the world. Oodles of illicit and dirty money adventuring in the world.

Then it invaded Ukraine all by itself.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Or that La Truss is so incompetent that, unlike blustercunt, she doesn't even realise that she needs to surround herself with complete incompetents to look "good" by comparison.



I don't think there's much danger of her appointing competent ministers.


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## two sheds (Aug 27, 2022)

Liz Truss allowed farmers to pollute England’s rivers after ‘slashing red tape’, say campaigners
					

Agricultural waste outstrips sewage as the main danger – and activists blame the ex-environment secretary’s cuts to farm inspections




					www.theguardian.com


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## SysOut (Aug 27, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Liz Truss allowed farmers to pollute England’s rivers after ‘slashing red tape’, say campaigners
> 
> 
> Agricultural waste outstrips sewage as the main danger – and activists blame the ex-environment secretary’s cuts to farm inspections
> ...


should be posted in the Brexit gains thread as well.


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## flypanam (Aug 27, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Badenoch pairs her malevolence with a concerning amount of competence


And yet she still bangs on about bogs when everyone is shitting themselves about being warm in winter.


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## bluescreen (Aug 27, 2022)

If Braverman is to be Home Secretary  , who tf is to be Attorney General?   Every time you think it can't get worse, it does.


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## alex_ (Aug 27, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> If Braverman is to be Home Secretary  , who tf is to be Attorney General?   Every time you think it can't get worse, it does.



Surely boris is a crime expert ?


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## sleaterkinney (Aug 27, 2022)

tim said:


> Truss and Rudd are on the Tory Whips secret blackmail list because of their relationships with Kwasi Kwertang.
> 
> View attachment 338154


Isn't he down to be the new chancellor?


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## Chilli.s (Aug 27, 2022)

Truss should appoint a cabinet that makes her look like the cleverest


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## alex_ (Aug 27, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Truss should appoint a cabinet that makes her look like the cleverest



Christ, that’s going to be pretty hard


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## Chilli.s (Aug 27, 2022)

Its her cunning plan


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## not a trot (Aug 27, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Its her cunning plan



Yeah, Baldrick for PM.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 27, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Truss should appoint a cabinet that makes her look like the cleverest



Where's she gonna find _three _short planks at this time of night?


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## steveo87 (Aug 27, 2022)

Mark Francios is five seven, so there's one. 
Gove, too, actually. 
They'll probably be in the same place.


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## bemused (Aug 27, 2022)

I'll be honest, I'm looking forward to the Liz shitshow. One of the things I'm hoping for is she gets zero bump in the polls. The other thing I'm looking forward to is Boris stealing her limelight constantly because if the press it to believed he thinks he can make a comeback.


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## SysOut (Aug 28, 2022)

decided not to post hi ho silver lining


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## SysOut (Aug 28, 2022)

duplicate


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 28, 2022)

Is it time to start taking bets on how long Truss will last as PM? I give her nine months.


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## LDC (Aug 28, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is it time to start taking bets on how long Truss will last as PM? I give her nine months.



What's going to be her downfall though? Comic accident befalls her while setting up one of her increasingly bonkers photo shoots?


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 28, 2022)

LDC said:


> What's going to be her downfall though? Comic accident befalls her while setting up one of her increasingly bonkers photo shoots?



I mean it really could be anything. Might as well put Mr Bean in charge ffs.


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## gosub (Aug 28, 2022)

LDC said:


> What's going to be her downfall though? Comic accident befalls her while setting up one of her increasingly bonkers photo shoots?


Don't you think she looks tired in some of them?


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## LDC (Aug 28, 2022)

gosub said:


> Don't you think she looks tired in some of them?



When you're tired of Truss's photo shoots you're tired of life?


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## gosub (Aug 28, 2022)

LDC said:


> When you're tired of Truss's photo shoots you're tired of life?


Not particularly, but quite a lot to do at mo


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## PR1Berske (Aug 29, 2022)




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## quiet guy (Aug 29, 2022)

She's doing a Boris.


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 29, 2022)




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## brogdale (Aug 29, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Truss is frit.


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## Artaxerxes (Aug 29, 2022)

When is this bollocks over?


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> When is this bollocks over?



Next Tue.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> When is this bollocks over?



Friday? And then however long civilisation lasts after that. Could be another fortnight.


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## Artaxerxes (Aug 29, 2022)

It will never end, some other fuck will be along in a year or so.


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## quiet guy (Aug 29, 2022)

If she stands at the lecturn in Downing Street and quotes Kipling we'll know that Thatcher has been reborn


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## alex_ (Aug 29, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Next Tue.



When does the next bollocks start ?


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It will never end, some other fuck will be along in a year or so.



presume that twat johnson was only not eligible to stand in the leadership contest caused by his own resignation?

in which case he can stand when liz truss has to resign for insider dealings in the pork markets or whatever...


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## two sheds (Aug 29, 2022)

Incapacitated from a surfeit of cheese


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## cupid_stunt (Aug 29, 2022)

The time line is -

Voting closes on Fri.
The winner is announced Mon. at 12.30pm.
Johnson then travels to see the Queen at Balmoral to tender his resignation.
The Queen then invites the winner to travel to Balmoral to be formally invited to form a new government, that 1000-mile round trip is expected to happen on Tue.


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## not a trot (Aug 29, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> If she stands at the lecturn in Downing Street and quotes Kipling we'll know that Thatcher has been reborn


She'll be handing Kiplings cakes out to the poor, then declare that's all the handouts you're getting.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 29, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The time line is -
> 
> Voting closes on Fri.
> The winner is announced Mon. at 12.30pm.
> ...


so what you're saying is the winner  of this poll receives an all-expenses round trip to balmoral, with a runners-up prize of not meeting the queen


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## Pickman's model (Aug 29, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> If she stands at the lecturn in Downing Street and quotes Kipling we'll know that Thatcher has been reborn


more st francis of assisi i think you'll find - where there is discord etc


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## brogdale (Aug 29, 2022)

alex_ said:


> When does the next bollocks start ?


According to yesterday's _Times _within the year.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 29, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> presume that twat johnson was only not eligible to stand in the leadership contest caused by his own resignation?
> 
> in which case he can stand when liz truss has to resign for insider dealings in the pork markets or whatever...


is 'insider dealings in the pork markets' a euphemism for what i think it is? in which case cameron should have gone long before he did.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> According to yesterday's _Times _within the year.


so this is the accelerationism we've heard so much about


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Liz Truss allowed farmers to pollute England’s rivers after ‘slashing red tape’, say campaigners
> 
> 
> Agricultural waste outstrips sewage as the main danger – and activists blame the ex-environment secretary’s cuts to farm inspections
> ...


She should fucking swing for this.


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## agricola (Aug 29, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> If she stands at the lecturn in Downing Street and quotes Kipling we'll know that Thatcher has been reborn



at least we'll know what cake she likes


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## Sue (Aug 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> When is this bollocks over?


Dunno but it feels like it's been going on for bloody _years_ already.


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## stavros (Aug 29, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



HIGNFY used a tub of lard for Roy Hattersley; C4 used a melting ice edifice for Johnson; the BBC should come up with something similar for Truss, and have Robinson pose the questions he would have asked her to see if he can get more articulate answers.


----------



## stdP (Aug 29, 2022)

quiet guy said:


> If she stands at the lecturn in Downing Street and quotes Kipling we'll know that Thatcher has been reborn



"Let them eat exceedingly good cake"


----------



## tommers (Aug 29, 2022)

Liz and her "team" survey the smoking ruins of neoliberal Capitalist policy. Rampant inflation, soaring energy prices, food shortages, multiple strikes, civil unrest, the collapse of basic health care.

One of her team, hollow cheeked, turns to her, tears in their eyes, "What should we do Ms Truss? Everything we've tried over the last 25 years hasn't worked! We've just made things worse and worse!".

Liz Truss turns to them, "we could try cutting taxes again?", shrugs and walks off.


----------



## stdP (Aug 29, 2022)

tommers said:


> Liz Truss turns to them, "we could try cutting taxes again?", shrugs and walks off.



Given enough desperation and out-of-the-box thinking I think we'll end up with "cut taxes and kill all the poor" (as I don't think she's got around to cutting taxes yet).


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 30, 2022)

I think we're in danger of writing her off before she's even kissed Brenda's ring. It's been a while since we've seen her, so who knows how that'll play out


----------



## Raheem (Aug 30, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> View attachment 340293


Dave Hill from Slade's let himself go.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 30, 2022)

tommers said:


> Liz and her "team" survey the smoking ruins of neoliberal Capitalist policy. Rampant inflation, soaring energy prices, food shortages, multiple strikes, civil unrest, the collapse of basic health care.
> 
> One of her team, hollow cheeked, turns to her, tears in their eyes, "What should we do Ms Truss? Everything we've tried over the last 25 years hasn't worked! We've just made things worse and worse!".
> 
> Liz Truss turns to them, "we could try cutting taxes again?", shrugs and walks off.


But the reason why we keep on seeing the same problems and ‘solutions’ is that any leader’s team member would not regard the last 25 (45?) years as failure; quite the contrary...their neoliberalism is working just as intended.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 30, 2022)

Jesus dude spoiler that shit


----------



## brogdale (Aug 30, 2022)

This US sleb take made me giggle...for a bit...


----------



## agricola (Aug 30, 2022)

stavros said:


> HIGNFY used a tub of lard for Roy Hattersley; C4 used a melting ice edifice for Johnson; the BBC should come up with something similar for Truss, and have Robinson pose the questions he would have asked her to see if he can get more articulate answers.



perhaps an entirely empty space would be appropriate


----------



## Supine (Aug 30, 2022)




----------



## two sheds (Aug 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> This US sleb take made me giggle...for a bit...



"Did you go to any parties?" "No" "Were you ever invited?" "No  "


----------



## gosub (Aug 30, 2022)

two sheds said:


> "Did you go to any parties?" "No" "Were you ever invited?" "No  "


Can you imagine her at a cheese and wine do


----------



## two sheds (Aug 30, 2022)

life and soul ... life and soul .. regaling people with cheese and pork related stories

🎈🎈🎈🎈🎈🎈


----------



## bluescreen (Sep 2, 2022)

Have at it


----------



## moochedit (Sep 2, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The time line is -
> 
> Voting closes on Fri.
> The winner is announced Mon. at 12.30pm.
> ...


So if johnson travels on monday and truss travels on tuesday then does that mean we have no pm for 24 hours?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 2, 2022)

moochedit said:


> So if johnson travels on monday and truss travels on tuesday then does that mean we have no pm for 24 hours?



A golden age…


----------



## alex_ (Sep 2, 2022)

moochedit said:


> So if johnson travels on monday and truss travels on tuesday then does that mean we have no pm for 24 hours?



Best pm for decades


----------



## weepiper (Sep 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> life and soul ... life and soul .. regaling people with cheese and pork related stories
> 
> 🎈🎈🎈🎈🎈🎈





two sheds said:


> "Did you go to any parties?" "No" "Were you ever invited?" "No  "


On the contrary according to my foreign office chum she actually is the life and soul of the party. Likes a party a little bit too much.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 2, 2022)

weepiper said:


> On the contrary according to my foreign office chum she actually is the life and soul of the party. Likes a party a little bit too much.


I’m glad to hear she’s good at something.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 2, 2022)

weepiper said:


> On the contrary according to my foreign office chum she actually is the life and soul of the party. Likes a party a little bit too much.



I think it was PE that was insistent she’s a bit keen on unbuttered back room meetings with interns instead of working


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 2, 2022)

moochedit said:


> So if johnson travels on monday and truss travels on tuesday then does that mean we have no pm for 24 hours?


Yes. It’ll be like when the teacher leaves the room.  They’re trusting us to behave.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 2, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> unbuttered


🤔


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 2, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> A golden age…


Before we have to face the cold reality of living in Trussia.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> I think it was PE that was insistent she’s a bit keen on unbuttered back room meetings with interns instead of working


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 2, 2022)

moochedit said:


> So if johnson travels on monday and truss travels on tuesday then does that mean we have no pm for 24 hours?


We've had no pm since the fucker announced his resignation at the beginning of July, we didn't have all that much of one before that tbh.
I have visions of Brenda punching the air with glee going "Yes Boris is gone!" and then sinking into a bout of depression as she realises that Liz is taking his place (much like the rest of us really)
I don't know how long Loopy Lizzie will keep the top job though, I can't remember who wrote it but I remember reading (probably in the Guardian) a piece that pointed out Liz is unusual in that she will be voted as leader by the membership over the wishes of the MP's who wanted someone else. He reckoned that their loyalty to her might be shaky at best.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 2, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> We've had no pm since the fucker announced his resignation at the beginning of July, we didn't have all that much of one before that tbh.
> I have visions of Brenda punching the air with glee going "Yes Boris is gone!" and then sinking into a bout of depression as she realises that Liz is taking his place (much like the rest of us really)
> I don't know how long Loopy Lizzie will keep the top job though, I can't remember who wrote it but I remember reading (probably in the Guardian) a piece that pointed out Liz is unusual in that she will be voted as leader by the membership over the wishes of the MP's who wanted someone else. He reckoned that their loyalty to her might be shaky at best.


Yeah she came third in the first round of mp voting iirc. Hopefully won't take too long for the letters to the 1922 chairman to start


----------



## moochedit (Sep 2, 2022)

Hopefully she is stupid enough to call an election and pisses her 80 seat majority away!


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 2, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Hopefully she is stupid enough to call an election and pisses her 80 seat majority away!


She has less than a 1000 days in office before she can call an Election from what i read somewhere, so anything is possible I suppose


----------



## andysays (Sep 2, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> She has less than a 1000 days in office before she can call an Election from what i read somewhere, so anything is possible I suppose


She can call an election as soon as she's PM if she really wants.

I suspect what you mean is she has less than a 1000 days in office before she must call a general election.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 2, 2022)

andysays said:


> She can call an election as soon as she's PM if she really wants.
> 
> I suspect what you mean is she has less than a 1000 days in office before she must call a general election.


Yep that's what I mean


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 2, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Have at it
> 
> View attachment 340662





Dear Liz, my priorities are getting rid of nuclear missiles and the royal family.


----------



## Spandex (Sep 2, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Dear Liz, my priorities are getting rid of nuclear missiles and the royal family.


Dear Liz, my priorities are getting rid of the royal family with nuclear missiles.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 2, 2022)

New UK PM tipped to be on election footing from DAY ONE
					

The next Prime Minister is expected to be on a general election footing from day one with strategists tipping October 5 next year as the date they will go to the polls.




					www.express.co.uk


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 3, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Hopefully she is stupid enough to call an election and pisses her 80 seat majority away!



Can we be serious please? This is a serious thread


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 3, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Hopefully she is stupid enough to call an election and pisses her 80 seat majority away!


The Express reports today that there could be an October general election.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 3, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The Express reports today that there could be an October general election.



The Express


----------



## Spandex (Sep 3, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The Express reports today that there could be an October general election.


They're reporting October 5th 2023 as a possible date. There is zero chance of an election this October. 

And I'd treat that date with the same confidence I have in any promise falling out of Truss' mouth and passing through the sewer of The Express.


----------



## andysays (Sep 3, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The Express reports today that there could be an October general election.



That's what the headline says, but the story itself is a bit thin on actual substance



> The next premier’s options for going to the polls are limited, with strategists insisting it is a  “matter of numbers” and there are only four or five options. October 5 is being talked about in political circles as the most likely date as it would allow boundary review changes to be implemented in July. The changes, carried out by independent bodies across the UK’s four nations, could be worth ten seats to the Conservative party. Economic turbulence is expected to continue well into next year as Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine wreaks havoc on global energy markets. But delaying an election beyond October means you are “waiting for something good to turn up but it won’t and you have run out of road”, according to a well-connected source.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 3, 2022)

The Express makes shit up and no new pm with any sense would go for an election with an 80 seat majority and 2 years left to run. (Not to mention that most people will have received the dreaded letter/email from their gas/electric companies by october)

On the other hand it is Truss  so anythings possible


----------



## andysays (Sep 3, 2022)

In other Liz Truss related news this morning



> The Financial Times reports that surging inflation, the rising cost of government debt and Liz Truss' tax cut and defence spending promises will blow a £60bn hole in the public finances by the middle of the decade. The paper also reports that civil servants are being told to keep carbon paper on standby to reproduce documents in case the country is hit with power cuts.





> The Guardian reports that the police chief in charge of boosting crime fighting is criticising Liz Truss' law and order plans, calling them "unwise" and "meaningless". Chief constable Ricahrd Lewis accuses Ms Truss of chasing "soundbite-friendly", but unrealistic, targets, the paper says.





> The i paper reports 80% of the public think the government is failing to tackle the energy crisis. The poll by the paper also reveals 53% of people say they will keep their heating turned off even if they are cold. The paper says the Conservatives are divided over tax cuts and demands for state intervention to boost the economy.



Who knows if Truss will even still be PM in October 2023...


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 3, 2022)

andysays said:


> Who knows if Truss will even still be PM in October 2023...


Sir Keir Starmer


----------



## andysays (Sep 3, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Sir Keir Starmer



The continuing existance of Starmer probably does make Truss's position more secure than otherwise, TBF


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 3, 2022)

andysays said:


> In other Liz Truss related news this morning
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So power cuts this winter if Truss doesn't act quickly then


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 3, 2022)

It's just going to be the IEA vs Reality


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 3, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Sep 3, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> View attachment 340832


The likeness is uncanny but scary too


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 3, 2022)

Andrew Marr says Iain Duncan Smith and John Redwood are tipped for treasury jobs. A Liz Truss government means the return of the radical right Anyone care to predict when the rioting starts? 

I'm sure Smith has the intellectual horsepower to formulate economic policy in a recession. He didn't go to university but he only took 6 years in the army to rise to the rank of Lieutenant.

edit: in case any of his constituents are reading this, and are under the impression that he has a degree and a business studies qualification, because that's what he told you, I refer you to Newsnight of 19/12/02 BBC - Press Office - Iain Duncan Smith CV


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 3, 2022)

Guardian article on Mogg refusing to support tourism says he's tipped for Business secretary


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 3, 2022)

Seems pretty certain that her cabinet will be even worse than that of the incumbent.  Are there any likely paths for Starmer forcing a GE when it all goes tits up?


----------



## killer b (Sep 3, 2022)

No


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 3, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Guardian article on Mogg refusing to support tourism says he's tipped for Business secretary



That was mentioned on the Sky News Press Review the other day, when Anna Soubry was a guest, she actually did a facepalm.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 3, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Andrew Marr says Iain Duncan Smith and John Redwood are tipped for treasury jobs. A Liz Truss government means the return of the radical right Anyone care to predict when the rioting starts?
> 
> I'm sure Smith has the intellectual horsepower to formulate economic policy in a recession. *He didn't go to university* but he only took 6 years in the army to rise to the rank of Lieutenant.
> 
> edit: in case any of his constituents are reading this, and are under the impression that he has a degree and a business studies qualification, because that's what he told you, I refer you to Newsnight of 19/12/02 BBC - Press Office - Iain Duncan Smith CV


He went to the University of Perugia.

For an afternoon, with a tour group.

Imagine having the gall to front out being exposed in such a lie-but-linguistically-technically-true episode like that. Most people would be hiding in a cupboard from the humiliation, wondering how to cover their bills due to being fired - not continue to turn up to work, speak on television on behalf of their employer, and generally go around telling others what's what with an air of authority.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 3, 2022)

I just heard rumour that the new Health Secretary is tipped to be the current work and pensions secretary Therse Coffey


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 3, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Guardian article on Mogg refusing to support tourism says he's tipped for Business secretary


Any news of Dorries and Patel if they stay or not?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 3, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Any news of Dorries and Patel if they stay or not?


They're both too fucking stupid not be freshly appreciated all over again for their destructive plans. In any kind of sane universe, Patel would be in prison, while Nad struggled through life as a care in the community case.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 3, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Any news of Dorries and Patel if they stay or not?



Well she isn't offically pm until tuesday so i would expect a cabinet reshuffle late tuesday or on wednesday.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 3, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> They're both too fucking stupid not be freshly appreciated all over again for their destructive plans. In any kind of sane universe, Patel would be in prison, while Nad struggled through life as a care in the community case.


queuing up outside the 24 hour "danger booze" shop at 2am. shouting "lets hear it for boris!" at passers by.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 3, 2022)

I had read somewhere that Patel will be replaced by Braverman, which IMO is worse


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 3, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I had read somewhere that Patel will be replaced by Braverman, which IMO is worse


Oh blimey


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 3, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I had read somewhere that Patel will be replaced by Braverman, which IMO is worse


Yes. The first thing she'll try is to take us out of the ECHR.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 3, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Yes. The first thing she'll try is to take us out of the ECHR.


She'll do everything Patel is doing and use the culture war narrative, ie throwing the marginalised communities under a bus, to do so. Blame the failure of Brexit on trans people or something. She's dim and ideologically driven. Another vacuous black hole like Truss


----------



## Supine (Sep 3, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Any news of Dorries and Patel if they stay or not?



BJ will probably send Nads to the house of lords before he exits.


----------



## stavros (Sep 3, 2022)

Supine said:


> BJ will probably send Nads to the house of lords before he exits.


She can still be a minister in ermine.

Who, apart from Sunak, is likely to be sniping from the sidelines?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 3, 2022)

stavros said:


> She can still be a minister in ermine.
> 
> Who, apart from Sunak, is likely to be sniping from the sidelines?


Plenty of 'em; she's not well liked by the PCP


----------



## stavros (Sep 3, 2022)

You're right; she was a Johnson loyalist, and we saw how popular he was with his MPs by the end.

Assuming he stays in Parliament, at least until the next GE, it'll be interesting to see if he does anything May-like criticism.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 3, 2022)

stavros said:


> You're right; she was a Johnson loyalist, and we saw how popular he was with his MPs by the end.
> 
> Assuming he stays in Parliament, at least until the next GE, it'll be interesting to see if he does anything May-like criticism.


I reckon the 'one-nation' faction will bide their time a bit like the LP right and just wait for electoral disaster to bring them the change of leadership that they want.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 3, 2022)

It is hard to know what process could have arrived at a less suitable leader.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 3, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I reckon the 'one-nation' faction will bide their time a bit like the LP right and just wait for electoral disaster to bring them the change of leadership that they want.


yeah - you get the sense that the remain/liberal side of the torys want the brextiy/trumpian fever to be scorched out of the party and accept that an electoral kicking is the only way to do it.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Sep 3, 2022)

For reasons I can't quite understand, tweeter is recommending this to me


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 3, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I reckon the 'one-nation' faction will bide their time a bit like the LP right and just wait for electoral disaster to bring them the change of leadership that they want.



If so, Sunak will have tanked his future prospects by desperately following Liz Truss down the rabbit hole of weird fanatical shit. Which is hilarious.


----------



## agricola (Sep 3, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> For reasons I can't quite understand, tweeter is recommending this to me
> 
> View attachment 340904



TBF that would be like him running for PM again after spending several years in a monogamous relationship.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 3, 2022)

"Someone elses bank balance" more like


----------



## Sasaferrato (Sep 3, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - you get the sense that the remain/liberal side of the torys want the brextiy/trumpian fever to be scorched out of the party and accept that an electoral kicking is the only way to do it.


Labour have a problem. Starmer is utterly vacuous.Never knowingly on the record on any given issue. An empty suit topped with a haircut three decades too young.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 3, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Labour have a problem. Starmer is utterly vacuous.Never knowingly on the record on any given issue. An empty suit topped with a haircut three decades too young.


That made me do a picture search.  I disagree. It looks _exactly_ like the haircut of a 60-year-old.


----------



## bluescreen (Sep 3, 2022)

stavros said:


> She can still be a minister in ermine.
> 
> Who, apart from Sunak, is likely to be sniping from the sidelines?


Johnson?


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 3, 2022)

Liz truss cabinet names leaked



			https://twitter.com/shippersunbound


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 4, 2022)

That's the Sunday Mirror's front page, according to their political editor on Sky News, letters of no-confidence in Truss could be going in as early as this coming week, and the plotters are hoping to reach the magic number before Christmas, I guess we can live in hope.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 4, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Couldn't she just trip on the way in to number ten and brain herself on the door handle?


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Liz truss cabinet names leaked
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/shippersunbound


Coffey for health sec?

This better be a fucking joke. Though I don't suppose it matters which demon runs the show


----------



## bluescreen (Sep 4, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Coffey for health sec?
> 
> This better be a fucking joke. Though I don't suppose it matters which demon runs the show


Whole shitshow is a fucking joke tbf.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 4, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Whole shitshow is a fucking joke tbf.


At the most critical time of the year, at the most critical time of the NHS' history (even including the height of the pandemic), a person who can't even feign compassion.

OTOH the pressure she'll be under has potential for schadenfreude. Can you imagine her visiting hospitals and being confronted by angry plebs, moaning about their sick kids or some tedious bullshit.


----------



## bluescreen (Sep 4, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> At the most critical time of the year, at the most critical time of the NHS' history (even including the height of the pandemic), a person who can't even feign compassion.
> 
> OTOH the pressure she'll be under has potential for schadenfreude. Can you imagine her visiting hospitals and being confronted by angry plebs, moaning about their sick kids or some tedious bullshit.


That last sentence is the only glimmer of anything remotely cheering. It's all such a nightmare and it's only going to get worse.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 4, 2022)




----------



## izz (Sep 4, 2022)

Truss to push ahead with low-tax economy despite calls for caution
					

Reports that prospective PM is also considering freezing energy bills this winter at a cost of up to £100bn




					www.theguardian.com
				




She isn't even officially in power yet but I hate her already. Is it possible we have the addiction to popularity of Johnson, the stupidity and viciousness of Patel and the understanding of global economics of the slug I evicted from the kitchen this morning, all in the one festering ToryZombie ?


----------



## gosub (Sep 4, 2022)

izz said:


> Truss to push ahead with low-tax economy despite calls for caution
> 
> 
> Reports that prospective PM is also considering freezing energy bills this winter at a cost of up to £100bn
> ...




Police fear hard winter of surging crime and civil unrest


----------



## izz (Sep 4, 2022)

gosub said:


> Police fear hard winter of surging crime and civil unrest



Well, I listened to that, one of the speakers was logical, coherent and appeared to be competent. The other was Patel of course. Sorry for the cheap shot.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2022)

gosub said:


> Police fear hard winter of surging crime and civil unrest




bollocks 

on the crisis they've created


----------



## fucthest8 (Sep 4, 2022)

two sheds said:


> bollocks
> 
> on the crisis they've created



loving the "commitment" to "drive this forward"

Standard meaningless drivel


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Nice bit of trickle down economics; very New Labour. Also always remember that National Insurance has ceiling above which you pay nothing extra no matter how much you earn. If that sounds a bit regressive  that's  because it is.

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 4, 2022)

"home secretary, do you love fluffy vulnerable kittens?"

"I'm sorry, I don't understand the question"


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2022)

There's one of that woman's statements I can imagine Patel and her mates will implement very soon, where she said that she has to claim benefits and that's not right, to a huge round of applause. Simple, stop people in work claiming those benefits.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Lol.. I tuned in for a bit of this, had no idea who this guy was because they weren't labelling the panellists very often, thought he was a right wing nutter, not a comedian, and turned it off. in my defence it was early and i was hungover.

the liz truss segment... why does she talk like a robot? say what you will about rishi but at least he speaks like he's alive.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 4, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Whole shitshow is a fucking joke tbf.


Your not wrong there


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> say what you will about rishi but at least he speaks like he's alive.


He’s even got friends who are all classes, even working class. Well, not working class.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Coffey for health sec?
> 
> This better be a fucking joke. Though I don't suppose it matters which demon runs the show


She is at least a doctor. Only in chemistry


----------



## gosub (Sep 4, 2022)

fucthest8 said:


> loving the "commitment" to "drive this forward"
> 
> Standard meaningless drivel


Tbf she did listen. Though if the media is to be believed.. won't be in cabinet to argue that (and others) WPC's point


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>





Christ Laura K has all the charm and personality of a decaying jellyfish.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 4, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Nice bit of trickle down economics; very New Labour. Also always remember that National Insurance has ceiling above which you pay nothing extra no matter how much you earn. If that sounds a bit regressive  that's  because it is.
> 
> Cheers  - Louis MacNeice



Indeed. Also, Truss’ argument that tax cuts for the rich will generate investment and growth is undermined by lived reality. We already have the lowest tax rates on the rich across much of Europe and yet growth and investment in the UK is anaemic (almost like the rich offshore the money instead or invest it in forms of unearned income like property). Truss should know this as she’s been a minister through the period where low tax, low investment and low growth has become embedded. But she doesn’t seem to.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Indeed. Also, Truss’ argument that tax cuts for the rich will generate investment and growth is undermined by lived reality. We already have the lowest tax rates on the richest across much of Europe and yet growth and investment in the UK is anaemic (almost like the rich offshore the money instead or invest it in forms of unearned income like property). Truss should know this as she’s been a minister through the period where low tax, low investment and low growth has become embedded. But she doesn’t seem to.


I was going to argue that she knows fine. But actually I think she knows fuck all, including that an in-breath is needed after each out-breath.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 4, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I was going to argue that she knows fine. But actually I think she knows fuck all, including that an in-breath is needed after each out-breath.



Yeah, I can’t work out if she’s a lying scumbag or a thick scumbag either. I’m leaning towards the latter as I’m still minded of her inability to do basic maths which saw her brave plans to cut public sector pay in the poorest parts of Britain collapse in less than a day.


----------



## Supine (Sep 4, 2022)




----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2022)

Supine said:


>



I mean, I know. And in a way it’s funny. But we’re going to be living through it. ☹️


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 4, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I mean, I know. And in a way it’s funny. But we’re going to be living through it. ☹️



Spot on. This notion that Truss’ stupidity and her performative Thatcher tribute act stuff is a bit of a laugh feels off. People are genuinely terrified about how they are going to eat and put the fire on. You hear they genuinely nasty vicious bastards like Redwood are going back in to government and it feels too dark for gallows humour.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> People are genuinely terrified about how they are going to eat and put the fire on.


Exactly.  I’m watching even standard wholemeal sliced bread leaping up in price at Lidl.  And some food items have got security tags.  Security fucking tags.  

Grim.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2022)

I'm not so sure. I think there's a place for black humour as a way of coping. Russians were famous for it in Cold War times.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 4, 2022)

tbf to kuennsberg i guess it was a risky booking for her debut show









						Laura Kuenssberg's BBC show under fire as Joe Lycett mocked Liz Truss
					

Comedian Joe Lycett stole the programme with scathing comments on Liz Truss and the cost of living crisis, leading to criticism that he was allowed to 'hijack' the show.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




but hey, it's gone viral


----------



## LDC (Sep 4, 2022)

The climate stuff that's coming under her is fucking out of control. She's making noises that looks like she'll throw out any attempt to cut carbon.


----------



## Sue (Sep 4, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Yeah, I can’t work out if she’s a lying scumbag or a thick scumbag either. I’m leaning towards the latter as I’m still minded of her inability to do basic maths which saw her brave plans to cut public sector pay in the poorest parts of Britain collapse in less than a day.


I'm going with both lying and thick. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 4, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Nice bit of trickle down economics; very New Labour.


Indeed. 
Of course Truss is filth but what she said (below) could have been said by plenty of Labour and LibDem - what is is but a slightly different version of Mandelson's "_[New Labour] is intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich._"


> Pressed on whether richer people would benefit more from the cut, she said: "The people at the top of the income distribution pay more tax - so inevitably, when you cut taxes you tend to benefit people who are more likely to pay tax."
> But she added: "To look at everything through the lens of redistribution I believe is wrong. Because what I'm about is growing the economy - and growing the economy benefits everybody.
> "The economic debate for the past 20 years has been dominated by discussions about distribution. And what's happened is we've had relatively low growth".


This has been the policy of all governments for decades.


----------



## gosub (Sep 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> tbf to kuennsberg i guess it was a risky booking for her debut show
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought he was called Hugo Boss these days.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> tbf to kuennsberg i guess it was a risky booking for her debut show
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any chance of a c&p so we don’t have to click on a filthy fucking link you’ve posted?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 4, 2022)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Any chance of a c&p so we don’t have to click on a filthy fucking link you’ve posted?



Twitter link a page or do prior


----------



## Fairweather (Sep 4, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Exactly.  I’m watching even standard wholemeal sliced bread leaping up in price at Lidl.  And some food items have got security tags.  Security fucking tags.
> 
> Grim.


We went to our local Lidl yesterday and I was stunned to see tags on powdered baby food, fucking grim.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 4, 2022)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Any chance of a c&p so we don’t have to click on a filthy fucking link you’ve posted?



Doesn't seem to let me. I don't think you clicking on the link will massively improve the Mail's ad revenue though.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 4, 2022)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Any chance of a c&p so we don’t have to click on a filthy fucking link you’ve posted?



I've copied the URL and put it into the archive.ph site, so you can read it without visiting the Mail's site.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Doesn't seem to let me. I don't think you clicking on the link will massively improve the Mail's ad revenue though.


It’ll fuck with the recommendations of anyone who clicks it though.


----------



## tommers (Sep 4, 2022)

Fairweather said:


> We went to our local Lidl yesterday and I was stunned to see tags on powdered baby food, fucking grim.


70% of hospitality going bust is 600k job losses on its own. Tags on baby milk will seem like the good old days.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




That explains why income equality has (checks notes) gone up.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 4, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Coffey for health sec?
> 
> This better be a fucking joke. Though I don't suppose it matters which demon runs the show


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


>



Ken Clarke in drag


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> That explains why income equality has (checks notes) gone up.


Checks notes has def jumped the shark, probably jumped it when jumping the shark jumped the shark


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 4, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


>



I didn't know Denis Skinner used Twitter?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I didn't know Denis Skinner used Twitter?


There are many things you don't know


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 4, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> There are many things you don't know


I think you right about that


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 4, 2022)

Truss as prime minister promises to be even more "what the fuck?!?" than Johnson. She promised the moon on the stick during her leadership campaign - billions of uncosted tax cuts (for the rich) funded by the "growth" that it will magically create. At the same time the grim reality of millions of people thrown into destitution, thousands of business going bankrupt and the resultant economic meltdown is going to force her to take emergency measures involving covid levels of borrowing and state intervention.  And chuck in her politically suicidal desire to trash workers rights.  How the fuck does she square that circle?
shes batshit and idiotically dogmatic enough to try and push through her loony right agenda way past the point of political common-sense and actual possibility. She has little authority with mps, utterly devoid of the intellect and political  communication skills of Blair and thatcher and none of the ... "charisma" (vomit) of johsnon.
We may be about see yet more political chaos unleashed against a backdrop of  social/economic meltdown - and the sort of level of protest, strikes and civil disorder not seen since the 80s.
There are even mutterings about letters of no confidence going in - i would be amazed if the tories replace her before a general election but for it even to be talked about before she has even started is shocking in itself.
The polling amongst tory voters that shows her ratings plummeting the more they see of her is pretty eyebrow raising as well.
She look like being a total fucking disaster - for the tory party, for the government but - tragically - for the rest of us as well.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 4, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Truss as prime minister promises to be even more "what the fuck?!?" than Johnson. She promised the moon on the stick during her leadership campaign - billions of uncosted tax cuts (for the rich) funded by the "growth" that it will magically create. At the same time the grim reality of millions of people thrown into destitution, thousands of business going bankrupt and the resultant economic meltdown is going to force her to take emergency measures involving covid levels of borrowing and state intervention.  And chuck in her politically suicidal desire to trash workers rights.  How the fuck does she square that circle?
> shes batshit and idiotically dogmatic enough to try and push through her loony right agenda way past the point of political common-sense and actual possibility. She has little authority with mps, utterly devoid of the intellect and political  communication skills of Blair and thatcher and none of the ... "charisma" (vomit) of johsnon.
> We may be about see yet more political chaos unleashed against a backdrop of  social/economic meltdown - and the sort of level of protest, strikes and civil disorder not seen since the 80s.
> There are even mutterings about letters of no confidence going in - i would be amazed if the tories replace her before a general election but for it even to be talked about before she has even started is shocking in itself.
> ...


Makes you wonder if she is doing a Medvedev for Johnson. Nothing else seems to make sense.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Makes you wonder if she is doing a Medvedev for Johnson. Nothing else seems to make sense.


Yeh. But so few things in life make sense. Come to terms with the complexity and irrationality of life and you'll be better placed to understand it instead of as you do here positing the existence of a conspiracy


----------



## stavros (Sep 4, 2022)

weltweit said:


> It is hard to know what process could have arrived at a less suitable leader.


Keeping the old leader, as was allegedly advocated by many in the party?


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 4, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Nothing else seems to make sense.


I think the reason she's chaotic is that she he has no ethos except for wanting to be in charge. She knows she needs a set of beliefs which other people can unite around. She needs a gang of supporters. So she just flails around, trying different things. It's frightening that someone so empty and pointless has got to the top.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 4, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I'm not so sure. I think there's a place for black humour as a way of coping. Russians were famous for it in Cold War times.


Well, to an extent. And I did joke about her intelligence. But while no topic is off the table in comedy, there’s a way to handle it. And definitely a way not to.


----------



## andysays (Sep 4, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I think the reason she's chaotic is that she he has no ethos except for wanting to be in charge. She knows she needs a set of beliefs which other people can unite around. She needs a gang of supporters. So she just flails around, trying different things. It's frightening that someone so empty and pointless has got to the top.



Ironic that all that could be applied equally to the outgoing PM


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 4, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> *I think the reason she's chaotic is that she he has no ethos except for wanting to be in charge.* She knows she needs a set of beliefs which other people can unite around. She needs a gang of supporters. So she just flails around, trying different things. It's frightening that someone so empty and pointless has got to the top.



Johnson part 2.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 4, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I think the reason she's chaotic is that she he has no ethos except for wanting to be in charge. She knows she needs a set of beliefs which other people can unite around. She needs a gang of supporters. So she just flails around, trying different things. It's frightening that someone so empty and pointless has got to the top.


Thing is she needs Tory MPs to believe she cares about whether or not they will keep their jobs. The consequence of not caring is that they will replace her. It's so obvious and inevitable that a strategy of not caring amounts to a deliberate kamikaze strategy, rather than just a flawed plan.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I just heard rumour that the new Health Secretary is tipped to be the current work and pensions secretary Therse Coffey


She does have a PhD in chemistry and appears to have some kind of functional brain. Twitter was full of pictures of her looking disheveled, pissed up and smoking a cigar. The relevance of which would suggest the culture secretary should be a grade 8 musician, the defence secretary an ex member of the armed forces and the agriculture bod a farmer. Leaving the misogyny aside I can't see why she would be that bad a choice apart from the fact she appears to be a crazed homophobic bigot who can rot in her own particular hell.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 4, 2022)

andysays said:


> Ironic that all that could be applied equally to the outgoing PM


His ethos was supplied by Cummimgs and the ERG. Then Covid game him a mission. After Brexit and Covid he was Truss, but with pub joker appeal. Truss doesn't have any of those, and she's too ruthless and irresponsible to make a mission out of keeping poor people alive. Even a Blair comeback would be better.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 4, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Seems pretty certain that her cabinet will be even worse than that of the incumbent.  Are there any likely paths for Starmer forcing a GE when it all goes tits up?



Short awnser is no.

The only thing he could do is move a motion of no confidence but as the tories have an overall majority of 80 seats there is no chance that would work.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> why does she talk like a robot


I think thats because she had a lot of coaching to get her pronounciation just so, she had a mild impediment, so now she gets the lines she knows she can deliver and sticks to them


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 4, 2022)

We really are fucked.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 4, 2022)

Don't you think she looks tired?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 4, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I think the reason she's chaotic is that she he has no ethos except for wanting to be in charge. She knows she needs a set of beliefs which other people can unite around. She needs a gang of supporters. So she just flails around, trying different things. It's frightening that someone so empty and pointless has got to the top.


I find her empty pointlessness terrifying because people project what they want to see onto that kind of person, knowing it can't clash with any observable reality to the contrary. The people projecting onto Liz Truss in the hope of her becoming their vehicle are far more frightening than her. She's no Thatcher - she's just some old drunk that can't string a sentence together. The names of those already being resurrected from their political graves are chilling to hear.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Don't you think she looks tired?


What already?


----------



## magneze (Sep 4, 2022)

The set looks like Blue Peter circa 1982.

"Get down Shep!"


----------



## brogdale (Sep 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> What already?


Yep; fucked already...terrified of those letters landing on Brady's doormat from tomorrow!


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2022)

that would be fun we could go through the whole leadership contest again


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 4, 2022)

two sheds said:


> that would be fun we could go through the whole leadership contest again


Agghhhh


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 4, 2022)

Tragically i think that  - unlike johnson - she _does_ have an political ideology - that of loony right wing economic dogma. She co-authored the unhinged "Britannia unchained" pamphlet where British workers were castigated as "the worst idlers" and has made similar comments since. She has the manic zeal of the convert but with no intellectual understanding of what she believes in. So its all "shred workers rights - tax cuts will grow the economy cos trickle down and hostility to dealing with any actual reality that opposes that. so she's luke warm - at best - about climate change mitigation and take a similar fingers in ears "la la la" approach to the cost of living crises.
Someone with similar ideas but more nous (like Thatcher) would be more subtle and choose their moments to push this shite - but not our lizz - she looks dead set to go full steam ahead ...
Its going to be very messy and ugly with her pushing her batshittery.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 4, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Tragically i think that  - unlike johnson - she does have an political ideology - that of loony right wing economic dogma. She co-authored the unhinged "Britannia unchained" pamphlet where British workers were castigated as "the worst idlers" and has made similar comments since. She has the manic zeal of the convert but with no intellectual understanding of what she believes in. So its all "shred workers rights - tax cuts will grow the economy cos trickle down and hostility to dealing with any actual reality that opposes that. so she's luke warm - at best - about climate change mitigation and take a similar fingers in ears "la la la" approach to the cost of living crises.
> Its going to be very messy and ugly with her pushing her batshittery.


Agreed; I think she understands perfectly well the role of the consolidator state, but then again, I think that Johnson also knew that very well; it's just that his preposterous ego/instinct for political survival trumped that ideological belief whenever the SHTF.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Sep 4, 2022)

two sheds said:


> that would be fun we could go through the whole leadership contest again



and that twat johnson can stand next time...


----------



## kenny g (Sep 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Don't you think she looks tired?


In days gone past a doctor would have used meth in order to fulfill his social duty to get a bit of character into proceedings. A pm needs energy, intelligence and focus. LT can clearly not perform on one of those but I am sure the Dr's needle could substitute for the others for at least the next two years.  FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 4, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Sep 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



They sure hate that bias thing


----------



## Dystopiary (Sep 5, 2022)

kenny g said:


> She does have a PhD in chemistry and appears to have some kind of functional brain. Twitter was full of pictures of her looking disheveled, pissed up and smoking a cigar. The relevance of which would suggest the culture secretary should be a grade 8 musician, the defence secretary an ex member of the armed forces and the agriculture bod a farmer. Leaving the misogyny aside I can't see why she would be that bad a choice apart from the fact she appears to be a crazed homophobic bigot who can rot in her own particular hell.


The misogyny has been awful and especially frustrating as there's so much to be concerned about with her as potential health sec. She's been a real nasty piece of work during her tenure at the DWP.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## platinumsage (Sep 5, 2022)

Would be funny if Sunak won, 52% to 48%


----------



## tommers (Sep 5, 2022)

"always in good spirits"


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 5, 2022)

Should be £25 better off after lunchtime


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 5, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Would be funny if Sunak won, 52% to 48%


I was thinking that. Everyone's all Lizzed up, wouldn't it be hilarious if Sunak actually beat her


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 5, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Should be £25 better off after lunchtime


And £2500 worse off by xmas


----------



## hipipol (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2022)

Someone is playing Bella Ciao outside the QEH st the moment (where the result is to be announced).   Ooh, they’ve just moved to summat more punky


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 5, 2022)

Prepare for take off lizkins


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2022)

I don’t really understand this, but it seems best placed here


----------



## DaphneM (Sep 5, 2022)

Lynn Truss's time has just begun


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 5, 2022)

Habeus shitus


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2022)

57-43, slightly surprisingly closer than expected.  

Playing the continuity bojo candidate now


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 5, 2022)

Her acceptance speech is about as slick as the pork markets one


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 5, 2022)

It's Truss and on that depressing note I will nip to the corner shop to get something to eat, I was hanging on whilst I waited for the result


----------



## Flavour (Sep 5, 2022)

let the wonderful soundbites and needlessly antagonistic baiting of China and Russia begin!


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 5, 2022)

Bored now. How many letters have gone in to Graham Brady already?


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Lynn Truss's time has just begun



lynn truss


liz truss


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 5, 2022)

Already delivering for us:


----------



## Raheem (Sep 5, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Bored now. How many letters have gone in to Graham Brady already?


Well, one so far. And it's from the People's Postcode Lottery.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Already delivering for us:



i don't think increasing a vote for labour is 'delivering for us'.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## LDC (Sep 5, 2022)

Oh my fucking god.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 5, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> It's Truss and on that depressing note I will nip to the corner shop to get something to eat, I was hanging on whilst I waited for the result


The cornershop is closed.

They are all closed.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 5, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> The cornershop is closed.
> 
> They are all closed.


No-one wants to miss the speech, I suppose.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 5, 2022)

Last years Guardian lamenting Truss's lack of understanding of Foucault









						Liz Truss doesn't know about Foucault, but she also doesn't care | Charlotte Lydia Riley
					

Ironically, rightwing politicians have invented a zombie ‘postmodernism’ that cannot be killed by facts, says Charlotte Lydia Riley




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 5, 2022)

A grand total of 81326 votes apparently.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> A grand total of 81326 votes apparently.


The number of the beasts.


----------



## A380 (Sep 5, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> A grand total of 81326 votes apparently.


Given the demographics of the electorate there are probably about 80756 left now...


----------



## andysays (Sep 5, 2022)

Wonder how many of those 654 spoiled ballots were spunking cocks


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 5, 2022)

A mandate from less than 0.2% of the UK electorate. That's fewer than one voter in 500. 

Decisive.


----------



## Tooter (Sep 5, 2022)

Does that mean there are only 142,379 people registered in the party?? 

And that 142,379 have just decided the next prime minister of the country? How very democratic. 

The bubble head trailing a catalogue of fails and errors shouldn't even be in government let alone PM. 

The mind boggles. I keep thinking it can't get worse and it always does 😂


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 5, 2022)

andysays said:


> Wonder how many of those 654 spoiled ballots were spunking cocks



Presumably they all wrote ‘Bring Back Boris’ so they’ll all be cocks for definite


----------



## kenny g (Sep 5, 2022)

andysays said:


> View attachment 341126
> 
> Wonder how many of those 654 spoiled ballots were spunking cocks


That's probably one name Johnson would be quite proud of.


----------



## killer b (Sep 5, 2022)

Tooter said:


> Does that mean there are only 142,379 people registered in the party??
> 
> And that 142,379 have just decided the next prime minister of the country? How very democratic.
> 
> ...


the electorate Brady quoted was 172,437, 82% turnout


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 5, 2022)

From Cold war Steve...


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## Gerry1time (Sep 5, 2022)

andysays said:


> View attachment 341126
> 
> Wonder how many of those 654 spoiled ballots were spunking cocks



I imagine a number of the 81,326 voters were as well.


----------



## JoeyBoy (Sep 5, 2022)

Makes no difference to me there are so many people above me shitting downwards that I can't even see whose at the top. My wanker of a boss and my double wanker of a landlord have more control over my life than whoever sits in No 10 and neither the crazy woman or the rich brown guy are going to do anything about either of them.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 5, 2022)

She's so fucking tone deaf that she hasn't twigged that we've had enough of hearing Tories promise to deliver, deliver, deliver. Where did they get the idea that it's a magic word to appease the electorate? Don't they have a speechwriter with a fucking Thesaurus?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 5, 2022)

JoeyBoy said:


> Makes no difference to me there are so many people above me shitting downwards that I can't even see whose at the top. My wanker of a boss and my double wanker of a landlord have more control over my life than whoever sits in No 10 and neither the crazy woman or the rich brown guy are going to do anything about either of them.



Nonsense, both are happy to give your boss and landlord a handjob


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 5, 2022)

Conservative Co-chair Ben Elliot has resigned. Chief fundraiser by all accounts. Few more would be nice.


----------



## Yossarian (Sep 5, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> A grand total of 81326 votes apparently.



That's just slightly below the number of prisoners in the UK - and the inmates would probably have delivered a better result.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> That's just slightly below the number of prisoners in the UK - and the inmates would probably have delivered a better result.


And someone less criminal


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 5, 2022)

In her speech, Truss said Boris Johnson is 'admired from Kyiv to Carlisle'.

However...



> It was a huge night for the future of politics in Cumbria, with the Labour Party forming the first ever administration at the newly formed Cumberland Council and the outgoing Carlisle Tory leader launching a scathing attack on PM Boris Johnson.











						Labour takes control of Cumberland Council as Tory leader attacks Boris
					

A whole host of new councillors have been elected




					www.lancs.live


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 5, 2022)

andysays said:


> View attachment 341126
> 
> Wonder how many of those 654 spoiled ballots were spunking cocks


I wonder how many of any of these tory voters are


----------



## Voley (Sep 5, 2022)

Behold this work of beauty:


----------



## Raheem (Sep 5, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Including an ash leaf is a bit aggressive though. Typical anti-Tory BBC.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Truss said Boris Johnson is 'admired from Kyiv to Carlisle'.


Longitude or latitude?


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 5, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Lynn Truss's time has just begun


Who's Lynn?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 5, 2022)

You’ve got the top job now lizkins. 

How do you like them apples?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Who's Lynn?


An author.  _Eats, Shoots and Leaves_ being her best-known work.  It's a mistake I'm going to make a lot, too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> An author.  _Eats, Shoots and Leaves_ being her best-known work.  It's a mistake I'm going to make a lot, too.


poor lynne truss is going to receive a lot of undeserved hate messages on her social media. but there has been no denial of the claim that she is to become an international assassin, operating under the tagline 'eats, shoots, and leaves'


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 5, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> An author.  _Eats, Shoots and Leaves_ being her best-known work.  It's a mistake I'm going to make a lot, too.


I bought a copy to try and help with my grammar, but by the end of the book she was using so much punctuation it made it almost unreadable.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 5, 2022)

Boulton on sky news hinting at 3 more resignations before the day is out !


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> In her speech, Truss said Boris Johnson is 'admired from Kyiv to Carlisle'.
> 
> However...
> 
> ...


from kyiv to irpin might more accurately locate his admirers


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 5, 2022)

From Hunstanton to Vladivostok


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 5, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Boulton on sky news hinting at 3 more resignations before the day is out !


Could Priti Patel be one as the rumours suggest she might have role in cabinet,,jump before being pushed?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 5, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Could Priti Patel be one as the rumours suggest she might have role in cabinet,,jump before being pushed?


I reckon so, although it would be sweeter if it were ones that aren't getting the push.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 5, 2022)

Voley said:


> Behold this work of beauty:
> 
> View attachment 341141


That's Mick Miller....look him up.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 5, 2022)

Is she dead yet?


----------



## gosub (Sep 5, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Is she dead yet?


Only on the inside


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 5, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> She's so fucking tone deaf that she hasn't twigged that we've had enough of hearing Tories promise to deliver, deliver, deliver.



Ask 'em for a tracking number.


----------



## DaphneM (Sep 5, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Who's Lynn?


Haha, she’s not particularly memorable!


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> from kyiv to irpin might more accurately locate his admirers


From Broadmoor to Bedlam.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 5, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> From Broadmoor to Bedlam.


Dont bring Bedlam into it, they had fucking amazing parties...

Broadmoor to Stoke Mandeville might be more apt, but with less of a ring to it.


----------



## elbows (Sep 5, 2022)

Voley said:


> Behold this work of beauty:
> 
> View attachment 341141


Ah the lesser spotted Truss-Cummings hybrid.


----------



## spitfire (Sep 5, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Boulton on sky news hinting at 3 more resignations before the day is out !



* summons balloons *


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> Is she dead yet?


If only she'd thrown herself into the fire when thatcher was cremated


----------



## Sweet FA (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## agricola (Sep 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> If only she'd thrown herself into the fire when thatcher was cremated



no doubt we'd find out she has Targaryen blood in that event, as she emerged unburnt from the flames

in fact this removing of bells prior to her accession may be an attempt to forestall her burning the capital to the ground from atop her mighty dragon Redwood


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2022)

agricola said:


> no doubt we'd find out she has Targaryen blood in that event, as she emerged unburnt from the flames
> 
> in fact this removing of bells prior to her accession may be an attempt to forestall her burning the capital to the ground from atop her mighty dragon Redwood


Redwood burned hot indeed in the past but now struggles to toast bread


----------



## Sue (Sep 5, 2022)

Zźßs


Pickman's model said:


> Redwood burned hot indeed in the past but now struggles to toast bread


And who indeed would eat toast grilled on Redwood's flame..? 🤢


----------



## nogojones (Sep 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Couldn't she just trip on the way in to number ten and brain herself on the door handle?


And would you be able to see a change in her?


----------



## JimW (Sep 5, 2022)

Cunt that he is, at least Johnson had some sort of low cunning, but now we have a bona fide plate of thick mince to lead the nation, she must be up their with the dumbest world leaders in history and she's only just started.
That said, don't get the complaint about the "anti-democratic" nature of the process; our system is obviously not all that but it's always been a party elected to government and their leader in top job. Suppose mass media age has made it more presidential so feels like we should pick but it is working as designed.


----------



## A380 (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 5, 2022)

My favourite take on Twitter....... so far

Liz Truss has now been trusted with the nuclear button. I honestly wouldn’t trust her with the bossanova button on a broken Yamaha keyboard

(Sanjeev Kohli)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 5, 2022)

Anyone else remember 2016, where we all nervously laughed at what an utterly dreadful year it was, but at least assumed it would slowly get better?

Halcyon days.


----------



## Sue (Sep 5, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Anyone else remember 2016, where we all nervously laughed at what an utterly dreadful year it was, but at least assumed it would slowly get better?
> 
> Halcyon days.


Theresa May replaced by Boris Johnson/Liz Truss as PM, Donald Trump as US President, a pandemic, massive cost of living crisis, environment fucked. 

Christ.

(And no doubt there's loads of other terrible stuff that I've managed to not think of.)


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 5, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Dont bring Bedlam into it, they had fucking amazing parties...
> 
> Broadmoor to Stoke Mandeville might be more apt, but with less of a ring to it.


Ok. From Broadmoor to Belmarsh.


----------



## ouirdeaux (Sep 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> (And no doubt there's loads of other terrible stuff that I've managed to not think of.)



You forgot Brexit.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> My favourite take on Twitter....... so far
> 
> Liz Truss has now been trusted with the nuclear button. I honestly wouldn’t trust her with the bossanova button on a broken Yamaha keyboard
> 
> (Sanjeev Kohli)


Ah, the bold Sanj.  He’s a good man.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 5, 2022)

Charisma, intelligence, leadership skills, principles - usually a world leader gets to have 2 or 3 out of the four. Truss has none. It's puzzling to grasp what the Tory members see in her. I suppose they see someone like them. God help us all.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 5, 2022)

She says all the right things. All the stuff the capitalist think tanks say as well


Brainaddict said:


> Charisma, intelligence, leadership skills, principles - usually a world leader gets to have 2 or 3 out of the four. Truss has none. It's puzzling to grasp what the Tory members see in her. I suppose they see someone like them. God help us all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 5, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> She says all the right things. All the stuff the capitalist think tanks say as well


----------



## 8ball (Sep 5, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> Charisma, intelligence, leadership skills, principles - usually a world leader gets to have 2 or 3 out of the four. Truss has none. It's puzzling to grasp what the Tory members see in her. I suppose they see someone like them. God help us all.



Tbf I’m running through a few world leaders in my head and I’m sceptical about your scoring system.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 5, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


>



Yeah, but pork markets.


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 5, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


>


You fucking traitors eating Brie.  and Edam.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 5, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> You fucking traitors eating Brie.  and Edam.



I’d forgotten the history of that clip til you reminded me.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 5, 2022)

It has Cheese written all over it


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 5, 2022)

C5 airing a documentary about the London riots on the day truss is elevated to PM


why do i have a feeling this is foreshadowing


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 5, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> It's puzzling to grasp what the Tory members see in her. I suppose they see someone like them. God help us all.



If a dimwitted, amoral, charmless void of a person like Liz Truss can become prime minister, then clearly it's also OK for me to be a dimwitted, amoral, charmless void.

I bet my kids will have to start calling again now. I bet they'll stop telling Sandra's new bloke that he's always been their real dad in every way that counts. And all the other cars on the road will finally get out of my way.


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 5, 2022)

Odd.  Really odd.  On Twitter (no, I don't know why, but I am pissed), I responded to a Macron Tweet congratulating Liz Trump, saying "we are friends blab blah" with a tweet saying "Fuck off, she's not even a friend of British people", and got a like from a Winchester City FC fan.

I may have found another friend down there.  He hangs out with the Chelsea/Rangers/Hamburg fans, but may be worth working on?


----------



## Cloo (Sep 5, 2022)

I'm just imagining the cringe-tastic, wrong-answer-to-wrong question, Daily-Mail-generated policies we're going to see in the next year or so.

There'll be some kind of 'take the politics out of what they're teaching our children!' one (AKA, please insert our politics into it), you can bet on that.
Lots of 'anti woke' ones to address non-existent problems and make things worse for everyone


----------



## a_chap (Sep 5, 2022)

A shout into the vacuum....


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 5, 2022)

Cloo said:


> I'm just imagining the cringe-tastic, wrong-answer-to-wrong question, Daily-Mail-generated policies we're going to see in the next year or so.
> 
> There'll be some kind of 'take the politics out of what they're teaching our children!' one (AKA, please insert our politics into it), you can bet on that.
> Lots of 'anti woke' ones to address non-existent problems and make things worse for everyone



Education is a gnat's bollock away from total collapse. Any more ridiculous bullshit piled on to teachers and they'll vote with their feet and GTFO, even more than did last year.

And even that will struggle to make the top ten catastrophes list if Truss and pals continue on their current trajectory. Or even if they don't tbh. Doesn't really matter who's steering when the car's already gone over the cliff.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> (And no doubt there's loads of other terrible stuff that I've managed to not think of.)


There’s been at least 2 new Coldplay albums in that time.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 5, 2022)

I blame Northerners. The muppets who believe whatever's on the side of a bus. How's that leveling out working for you? If you survive the winter, just don't vote, ever again.


----------



## killer b (Sep 5, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Anyone else remember 2016, where we all nervously laughed at what an utterly dreadful year it was, but at least assumed it would slowly get better?


Dunno, I think you at least have been fairly consistently predicting there's worse to come.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 5, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I blame Northerners. The muppets who believe whatever's on the side of a bus. How's that leveling out working for you? If you survive the winter, just don't vote, ever again.



Deckchairs now half-price!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 5, 2022)

killer b said:


> Dunno, I think you at least have been fairly consistently predicting there's worse to come.


Been right so far


----------



## Mation (Sep 5, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> Charisma, intelligence, leadership skills, principles - usually a world leader gets to have 2 or 3 out of the four. Truss has none. It's puzzling to grasp what the Tory members see in her. I suppose they see someone like them. God help us all.


She's not brown.


----------



## xenon (Sep 5, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>




Seriously though, why have you post this? What is the point? Just oh I don’t know nothing against you but this is fucking pointless.
It’s not even funny or incisive. It’s just someone naming leaves. No literally you have posted third hand someone naming leaves.


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 5, 2022)

Mation said:


> She's not brown.


Yeah, mrs mx (brown) said well before this result that the country isn't ready for a brown PM.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## 8ball (Sep 5, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Yeah, mrs mx (brown) said well before this result that the country isn't ready for a brown PM.



Not exactly maximising chances when it’s left to the Tory party membership tbf.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 5, 2022)

i'm still surprised Patel never threw her name in the hat

she evil against everyone and her hero is Maggie


must be set on the idea of a cockwombles resurgence


----------



## Dystopiary (Sep 5, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, the bold Sanj.  He’s a good man.


He's still a landlord.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 5, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Sep 5, 2022)

Nadine Dorries to leave cabinet


----------



## xenon (Sep 5, 2022)

Has anyone got an opinion original thought? Here’s a clue don’t borrow it off Twitter. I mean fuck it actually I am out.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Sep 5, 2022)

Terminator 6: The Cockwomble's Resurgence 

The sequels just keep getting worse and worser.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Sep 5, 2022)

xenon said:


> Has anyone got an opinion original thought? Here’s a clue don’t borrow it off Twitter. I mean fuck it actually I am out.


No I just borrowed mine off Ax


----------



## xenon (Sep 5, 2022)

It’s going to be rough. Or something. And I don’t think I can spend it with you guys anymore. Just re-posting Twitter shit pictures. Bye, good luck et cetera.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Sep 5, 2022)

xenon said:


> It’s going to be rough. Or something. And I don’t think I can spend it with you guys anymore. Just re-posting Twitter shit pictures. Bye, good luck et cetera.


You should stay, I've been suppressing a tantrum cause no one called out Clapson on his let the North die this winter craic. Maybe I'm not the only one reading and feeling depressed.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> No I just borrowed mine off Ax


There's a lot of memes out there tbf.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)

xenon said:


> It’s going to be rough. Or something. And I don’t think I can spend it with you guys anymore. Just re-posting Twitter shit pictures. Bye, good luck et cetera.


There's nothing wrong with using Twitter and memes alongside posts which is what do many threads are, and let's face it, "laughter is the best medicine" at the moment.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Sep 5, 2022)

I've never seen as many twitter posts on Facebook even as I've seen on here last year or so. It's too much.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 5, 2022)

Oh
I have just realised why her cheese speech was so shite- it’s cos we import foreign cheese. Like cos we like foreign cheese.we are not importing cheddar or that rubbery orange stuff you see in Scotland 

She is silly saying that


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 5, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I blame Northerners. The muppets who believe whatever's on the side of a bus. How's that leveling out working for you? If you survive the winter, just don't vote, ever again.



Yeah, you’d never see savvy Londoners vote for Tories like Johnston would you?

Nice touch with your suggestion that the north has bought on its own poverty by the way.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 5, 2022)

xenon said:


> Has anyone got an opinion original thought? Here’s a clue don’t borrow it off Twitter. I mean fuck it actually I am out.



what do you want

liz sort of reminds me in looks as the squirrel in SpongeBob?


----------



## tommers (Sep 5, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I blame Northerners. The muppets who believe whatever's on the side of a bus. How's that leveling out working for you? If you survive the winter, just don't vote, ever again.


Are you being serious?


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 5, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> what do you want
> 
> liz sort of reminds me in looks as the squirrel in SpongeBob?


And the best way to indicate that would be a tweet or meme to prove it though maybe I have to step back from sharing them for the time being!


----------



## Dystopiary (Sep 5, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> what do you want
> 
> liz sort of reminds me in looks as the squirrel in SpongeBob?


(((Sandy)))


----------



## Petcha (Sep 6, 2022)




----------



## LDC (Sep 6, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> I've never seen as many twitter posts on Facebook even as I've seen on here last year or so. It's too much.



It's only a few people on here, they just do a fuck of a lot of it. Should be banned tbh, at least just the image ones anyway.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)




----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 6, 2022)

JimW said:


> That said, don't get the complaint about the "anti-democratic" nature of the process; our system is obviously not all that but it's always been a party elected to government and their leader in top job. Suppose mass media age has made it more presidential so feels like we should pick but it is working as designed.


Yes I don't get the liberal complaints about this. If you want a representative parliamentary democracy how should it work apart from this way? 

Are people arguing for a move to a formal presidential style system? That there's a return to the leader of parties being chosen solely by the MPs (how would that be more' democratic')? That non-members should have some formal input in the choice of party leaders?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> That there's a return to the leader of parties being chosen solely by the MPs (how would that be more' democratic')?



I was talking to a Tory party member last week, and he expressed the view that the members shouldn't get a vote for the leader, for two reasons, the first being they need the maximum number of MPs supporting them otherwise there will be more problems trying to keep the parliamentary party together.

His main reason is that the members select their local candidate to represent them, and likewise the successful ones are elected by the wider electorate to represent them in parliament, and that should include selecting their leader. Do you have about 180k members from a very narrow demographic selecting the leader or the MPs representing almost 14m voters and a much wider demographic, he believes the second option is the more democratic.

I can see his point.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 6, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

teqniq said:


>



Winston Churchill's rotting corpse would be more capable of running the country.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 6, 2022)

Overly sensitive, hmmmm?









						BBC to 'reset' Laura Kuenssberg show after Joe Lycett’s ambush leaves Team Truss ‘incandescent’
					

An insider said the comedian's interruption confirmed all Team Truss's prejudices about the BBC being 'left-wing and a bit silly'




					inews.co.uk


----------



## Petcha (Sep 6, 2022)

I'm loving the @liztruss/@trussliz twitter mixup going on. She's handling it hilariously   Gonna be a busy morning for her.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Overly sensitive, hmmmm?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


bloody snowflakes


----------



## Supine (Sep 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I'm loving the @liztruss/@trussliz twitter mixup going on. She's handling it hilariously   Gonna be a busy morning for her.



Almost as good as the real John Lewis who responds to the shops complaints


----------



## Petcha (Sep 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> Almost as good as the real John Lewis who responds to the shops complaints



Haha.. yeh I remember that. There's a petition now for @liztruss to be appointed as the next PM. She does at least seem to be a human.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> And the best way to indicate that would be a tweet or meme to prove it though maybe I have to step back from sharing them for the time being!



btw i've replied 4 now 5 times on this thread and none have them have been twitter links or memes


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> Almost as good as the real John Lewis who responds to the shops complaints


He was shit in the Sex Pistols


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 6, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> He's still a landlord.


Well, his parents are/were. I remember, now you mention it, someone telling me recently that Kohli snr was their landlord when they rented in a street around the corner from me.  I don’t know what Sanjeev’s business affairs are, although I know his brother seems dodgy and has had sexual harassment accusations against him.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> btw i've replied 4 now 5 times on this thread and none have them have been twitter links or memes


I will endeavour to ration my contributions unless they're worthy to be shared.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

it nice to save them to your desktop and then upload them

so no twitter folk can see them


----------



## Dystopiary (Sep 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I'm loving the @liztruss/@trussliz twitter mixup going on. She's handling it hilariously   Gonna be a busy morning for her.


I see Caroline Lucas made that mistake. Shows how clueless she is that she didn't check the handle before ensuring that every reply goes to the wrong person. But yeah, the other Liz is taking it well!


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

Liz Truss is currently unable to land at Aberdeen airport en route to the Queen:


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 6, 2022)

Should have used Zoom


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

When Liz was a SWSS









						Liz Truss’s two weeks in the Socialist Worker Student Society
					

A number of friends from university have been sharing their memories of Liz Truss, who was in the year after me at Oxford. This was a time of huge, almost weekly student protests, and those few fig…




					livesrunning.wordpress.com


----------



## extra dry (Sep 6, 2022)

10 or so minute breakdown Truss looks awfuller? is that a word? than Twit Boris


----------



## moochedit (Sep 6, 2022)

Has the queen's ring been kissed yet?


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Liz Truss is currently unable to land at Aberdeen airport en route to the Queen:



Congratulations to the weather for given a helping hand


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

belboid said:


> When Liz was a SWSS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds cheesy to me


----------



## extra dry (Sep 6, 2022)

sometimes youtube messes up the titles and descriptions...this is strange though


----------



## Raheem (Sep 6, 2022)

There's a great little window here for the Queen to fall off her perch.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 6, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> You should stay, I've been suppressing a tantrum cause no one called out Clapson on his let the North die this winter craic. Maybe I'm not the only one reading and feeling depressed.


I didn't say they should die, and I don't want them to die. I'm still frustrated that so many of them voted for Brexit and gave Johnson a huge majority.  Yesterday in vox pops on the TV news they were still coming out with the same old nonsense that they like Johnson. What's wrong with them? Why were so many of them so gullible? It's bizarre. Like an infectious disease sweeping the North. Or maybe the Johnson-is-a-good-bloke excuse is just a way to hide their xenophobia and racism. A lot of them in the mill towns voted Brexit to get rid of foreigners, i.e. Pakistanis. If it hadn't been for all the stories about the so-called Asian grooming gangs I think the Brexit vote would have gone the other way.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Sep 6, 2022)

Jesus fucking christ.


----------



## Sue (Sep 6, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I didn't say they should die, and I don't want them to die. I'm still frustrated that so many of them voted for Brexit and gave Johnson a huge majority.  Yesterday in vox pops on the TV news they were still coming out with the same old nonsense that they like Johnson. What's wrong with them? Why were so many of them so gullible? It's bizarre. Like an infectious disease sweeping the North. Or maybe the Johnson-is-a-good-bloke excuse is just a way to hide their xenophobia and racism. A lot of them in the mill towns voted Brexit to get rid of foreigners, i.e. Pakistanis. If it hadn't been for all the stories about the so-called Asian grooming gangs I think the Brexit vote would have gone the other way.


Christ on a bike. That's some 'analysis'...


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 6, 2022)

On a lighter note....

[*a-singing]*

I love la Truss and we all deserve support, so now we have her near

Her near

Her near

No more bellyaching from here.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 6, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Should have used Zoom


Can you Zoom call a corpse?


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 6, 2022)

Nads is gone


----------



## Supine (Sep 6, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Nads is gone



GoNads


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

I’m sure Urban used to be better at this than this.

Maybe I’m just older and it’s the same as saying “the telly used to be better in my day”

David Clapson you joined in 2015 so you were here during the endless threads that eviscerated the shit you’re coming out with here. Go back and re-read some of those discussions.

Memes and Bantz. Isn’t that what the Bandwidth thread is for? Or Facebook? I get that nothing anyone says makes any fucking difference so we may as well make jokes while the world burns. But it does look flip and it gets dull when... well, the world is fucking burning ffs.

I’m no good at the discourse myself but I really miss reading it on here.


----------



## contadino (Sep 6, 2022)

When you're irreconcilably of polar opposite views as the people pulling the levers, I'm not sure there's much that can be done.

Johnson should've been out on his ear for proroguing parliament, let alone herd immunity, but it didn't suit his enablers to ditch him until now. The same will happen with Truss, and anything you or I do won't make a jot of difference.

Discourse was exhausted years ago.

I'm not suggesting that doomscrolling thru pages of twitter memes and ignored poster is great - just unsure what else is on offer.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 6, 2022)

It's all fucking horrible, I personally have nothing constructive left to say. All I have apart from keeping my head down and looking after my boy (and the few remaining splinters of community left in my messed up world) is laughing at her name, like I did at boris penis err johnson's.

I literally have no idea what to do next.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Sep 6, 2022)

The tweets aren't good enough for the bandwidth thread, and everyone  knows it. Otherwise everyone would be laughing too much to give a fuck about the discourse.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 6, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

Sky News online reporting  that Iain Duncan Smith turns down role in Government


----------



## killer b (Sep 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Been right so far


You've often been wrong on plenty of the detail mind... 

Personally I'm unconvinced Truss will be a worse prime minister than Johnson - a worse prime minister would surely be a competent one. As it is, I think there's a good chance Truss and her government will be tangled up in events and unable to act fully in the way she'd like to until she loses the next election in two year's time, as Johnson has been (mostly) for the first part of this parliament.


----------



## bemused (Sep 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> You've often been wrong on plenty of the detail mind...
> 
> Personally I'm unconvinced Truss will be a worse prime minister than Johnson - a worse prime minister would surely be a competent one. As it is, I think there's a good chance Truss and her government will be tangled up in events and unable to act fully in the way she'd like to until she loses the next election in two year's time, as Johnson has been (mostly) for the first part of this parliament.


I'm not a huge fan of the Tories, however, I do want them to succeed in government because people desperately need their support.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 6, 2022)

bemused said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the Tories, however, I do want them to succeed in government because people desperately need their support.


If people get their support, that will be a failure for them.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> You've often been wrong on plenty of the detail mind...
> 
> Personally I'm unconvinced Truss will be a worse prime minister than Johnson - a worse prime minister would surely be a competent one. As it is, I think there's a good chance Truss and her government will be tangled up in events and unable to act fully in the way she'd like to until she loses the next election in two year's time, as Johnson has been (mostly) for the first part of this parliament.




What’s amazing about Johnson is that aside from the protest bill he pissed an 80 seat majority away doing nothing aside from lining pockets.


More of this incompetence please


----------



## killer b (Sep 6, 2022)

Raheem said:


> If people get their support, that will be a failure for them.


exactly - this is what I mean by tied up with events. The current moment requires action which needs to be taken, and which will - albeit probably late, and probably not entirely sufficiently - but which will prevent them from carrying out the programme of government they'd like.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 6, 2022)

If there's one tiny upside to all this, it's that people will now stop referring to the PM in these ridiculous matey first name terms.

'Boris' FFS.

(I know it's not his actual first name.)


----------



## Serge Forward (Sep 6, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I didn't say they should die, and I don't want them to die. I'm still frustrated that so many of them voted for Brexit and gave Johnson a huge majority.  Yesterday in vox pops on the TV news they were still coming out with the same old nonsense that they like Johnson. What's wrong with them? Why were so many of them so gullible? It's bizarre. Like an infectious disease sweeping the North. Or maybe the Johnson-is-a-good-bloke excuse is just a way to hide their xenophobia and racism. A lot of them in the mill towns voted Brexit to get rid of foreigners, i.e. Pakistanis. If it hadn't been for all the stories about the so-called Asian grooming gangs I think the Brexit vote would have gone the other way.


Kin'ell.


----------



## Knotted (Sep 6, 2022)

izz said:


> Truss to push ahead with low-tax economy despite calls for caution
> 
> 
> Reports that prospective PM is also considering freezing energy bills this winter at a cost of up to £100bn
> ...





andysays said:


> View attachment 341126
> 
> Wonder how many of those 654 spoiled ballots were spunking cocks



I once had a job counting the votes of the Tory leadership election. Tories don't do spunking cocks they right little essays about the dreadful state of the Tory Party, like it's the letters pages of The Times.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

Therese Coffey has arrive in downing street and in no 10 before Liz Truss gets there and rumoured to be deputy PM?


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

mojo pixy said:


> It's all fucking horrible, I personally have nothing constructive left to say. All I have apart from keeping my head down and looking after my boy (and the few remaining splinters of community left in my messed up world) is laughing at her name, like I did at boris penis err johnson's.
> 
> I literally have no idea what to do next.



was that not part of Johnson game plan all along make it so that no one cares or engages in politics anymore

plus the divisive nature of brexit under his party tenure has split how people see each other further ..


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 6, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> was that not part of Johnson game plan all along make it so that no one cares or engages in politics anymore
> 
> plus the divisive nature of brexit under his party tenure has split how people see each other further ..


I don't know about that but my current disengagement is less to do with that prick and more to do with the lack of any engaging political movement that reflects my life and views, and the inceasingly toxic/useless shit shower of Labour.

I know I should be organizing and agitating but I'm a fucking 50-year-old care worker, nobody gives a fuck what I think anyway. And there is no longer any political movement that speaks for me, or that is speaking to me.


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

contadino said:


> When you're irreconcilably of polar opposite views as the people pulling the levers, I'm not sure there's much that can be done.
> 
> Johnson should've been out on his ear for proroguing parliament, let alone herd immunity, but it didn't suit his enablers to ditch him until now. The same will happen with Truss, and anything you or I do won't make a jot of difference.
> 
> ...



This is learned helplessness.

I refuse to go under.
Are they really going to win merely by dint of grinding us down? I know it feels like that right now. And it doesn’t look like revolution is ever going to happen here. 

People are leaving public service jobs in their droves (from fruit picking to doctoring) because everything is so hopeless. Strikes are so hard and so risky, and so few of us are in a union anyway. Rather than staying in the job and fighting for fair pay&conditions people are going into the gig economy, leaving the country, harvesting the equity from their home. It’s not that people are being selfish and taking care of oneself and one’s own family, it’s the way society and community has been slashed and burned by Tory policy for decades. It feels like there’s so little left to save.

What else is on offer is the real question I reckon. Politics is a bust. Starmer won’t help, even if there were a Labour win. 

But I refuse to give up, I refuse to go under.

Not talking about it isn’t a solution.
Laughing about it is a coping mechanism the Brits are famously good at but it’s a mechanism that’s keeping us stuck.


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

Truss is such a huge joke that it’s almost impossible to say anything more ridiculous than “Truss won”.


----------



## A380 (Sep 6, 2022)




----------



## Dystopiary (Sep 6, 2022)

She's got big shoes to fill. 



Spoiler


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

story said:


> Truss is such a huge joke that it’s almost impossible to say anything more ridiculous than “Truss won”.


to paraphrase bob monkhouse, everybody laughed when liz truss said she wanted to be pm. well, they're not laughing now.


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> to paraphrase bob monkhouse, everybody laughed when liz truss said she wanted to be pm. well, they're not laughing now.




I’m feeling really dispirited although not surprised.
Same as after Brexit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

story said:


> I’m feeling really dispirited although not surprised.
> Same as after Brexit.


2016 was a walk in the park compared to 2022. we didn't know how good we had it.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 6, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> She's got big shoes to fill.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Outstanding use of the spoiler button.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 6, 2022)

I know things may not look ideal right now, but I think we should all reflect for a moment on how much worse it would have been under Corbyn.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 6, 2022)

Irate at them pissing around on planes and shitting out CO2 for no fucking reason.


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> 2016 was a walk in the park compared to 2022. we didn't know how good we had it.



My favourite joke around that time:

It’s the year 3016 and Teacher is at the front of the history class. They say “Okay now children, we’re starting a new topic today. Everyone write the heading “The Year 2017”. All the kids shift about a bit, all uneasy like, wondering if Teacher has started losing their memory. One of the kids pipes up and says “Excuse me Teacher….?” Teacher turns around and says “What seems to be the problem now young Pickman’s Model?” He asks “Whatever happened to 2016?” With a sudden look of deep concern Teacher shakes their head and says “ ….. we don’t talk about 2016……”




I worry these current days will also look like naive innocence from the vantage point of some years hence.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 6, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Irate at them pissing around on planes and shitting out CO2 for no fucking reason.


Why couldn't they share a fucking plane?
And why so making cars to transport one dickhead. FFS.


----------



## gosub (Sep 6, 2022)

Is Liz Truss a Tory Jeremy Corbyn? | The Spectator
					

The membership like Liz Truss. Conservative voters seem to think otherwise




					www.spectator.co.uk
				





story said:


> My favourite joke around that time:
> 
> It’s the year 3016 and Teacher is at the front of the history history class. They say “Okay now children, we’re starting a new topic today. Everyone write the heading “The Year 2017”. All the kids shift about a bit, all uneasy like, wondering if Teacher has started losing their memory. One of the kids pipes up and says “Excuse me Teacher….?” Teacher turns around and says “What seems to be the problem now young Pickman’s Model?” He asks “Whatever happened to 2016?” With a sudden look of deep concern Teacher shakes their head and says “ ….. we don’t talk about 2016……”
> 
> ...


 Pretty sure I remember Remain claiming prior to the referendum UK would take no further part in history.


----------



## gosub (Sep 6, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Why couldn't they share a fucking plane?
> And why so making cars to transport one dickhead. FFS.


From experience, that can be awkward.  And if Boris few back out of Aberdeen, the bill was on him


----------



## JimW (Sep 6, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Why couldn't they share a fucking plane?
> And why so making cars to transport one dickhead. FFS.


Something about key government figures not on same liable to crash transport? Though is Truss goes down in flames the average IQ of the cabinet will leap up.


----------



## Supine (Sep 6, 2022)

Looks like it’s starting to rain on her parade


----------



## philosophical (Sep 6, 2022)

It would be funny if it pisses down.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

It would be funny if she was struck by lightning.  Or go full Stone the Crows


----------



## Supine (Sep 6, 2022)

Watching them all get soaked is my highlight of the day 👍


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

A dustbin bag over the lectern.  Most appropriate.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 6, 2022)

philosophical said:


> It would be funny if it pisses down.


Remarkable. A post from you that does not call anyone a cunt. I think you are quite taken with her.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

story said:


> My favourite joke around that time:
> 
> It’s the year 3016 and Teacher is at the front of the history history class. They say “Okay now children, we’re starting a new topic today. Everyone write the heading “The Year 2017”. All the kids shift about a bit, all uneasy like, wondering if Teacher has started losing their memory. One of the kids pipes up and says “Excuse me Teacher….?” Teacher turns around and says “What seems to be the problem now young Pickman’s Model?” He asks “Whatever happened to 2016?” With a sudden look of deep concern Teacher shakes their head and says “ ….. we don’t talk about 2016……”
> 
> ...


the year that dares not speak its name


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

philosophical said:


> It would be funny if it pisses down.


yeh. it would be much funnier if it only pissed on her


----------



## philosophical (Sep 6, 2022)

Deliver deliver deliver, unless it's raining.


----------



## philosophical (Sep 6, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Remarkable. A post from you that does not call anyone a cunt. I think you are quite taken with her.


Fuck off you cunt.


----------



## Supine (Sep 6, 2022)

Sky News ‘we don’t know how long this shower will last’

I give her till Christmas.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 6, 2022)

Really looking forward to her speech


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 6, 2022)

Lecterns back oot again. Please let's have biblical rain half way through her ramblings.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> Sky News ‘we don’t know how long this shower will last’
> 
> I give her till Christmas.


Thats generous, Id say November 5th would be better


----------



## philosophical (Sep 6, 2022)

Bastard rain stopping.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 6, 2022)

Give her a break , she might actually be ok you know


----------



## TopCat (Sep 6, 2022)

An interesting take. Is Liz Truss a Tory Jeremy Corbyn? | The Spectator


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2022)

The way they talk about the rain as if nobody could predict when it might stop, never mind the existence of rain radars which easily demonstrated it would only be a brief but intense shower.

I only tuned in in the first place because the rain radar indicated soggy tories and media.


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2022)

'history will see him as a hugely consequential prime minister' she says. Well thats one way of putting it.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 6, 2022)

I feel better now I know we are an aspiration nation. Christ.


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2022)

An aspiration nation, with spades in the ground to solve our energy issues. Indeed we intend to wave our spades in the air with every passing thunderstorm, hoping to channel the electrical energy of lightning through the burning bodies of a new generation of tories.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

Less than twenty cliches, so a much stronger start than I expected.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 6, 2022)

She's so cak


----------



## TopCat (Sep 6, 2022)

Well nothing about grinding the faces of the poor into the dirt. Has she pivoted already away from the Tory members and towards a wider electorate?

I personally suspect she is an uber evil capitalist warmonger who has a lifelike wax doll of Norman Tebbit in her wardrobe and thinks of Henry Kissinger to come. .

Time will tell.


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Well nothing about grinding the faces off the poor into the dirt. Has she pivoted already away from the Tory members and towards a wider electorate?



She started by going on about tax cuts, I think that rather counts as face grinding.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Why couldn't they share a fucking plane?



I wondered that too, apparently it was for security reasons, which I guess is understandable, but still no reason why they couldn't have travelled up yesterday by train or a commercial flight rather than two fucking private jets. 



> And why so making cars to transport one dickhead. FFS.



Also for security reasons, those armed cops need to be in cars.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 6, 2022)

elbows said:


> She started by going on about tax cuts, I think that rather counts as face grinding.


Tax cuts and benefit cuts to pay for the former is more my dread fear.


----------



## JimW (Sep 6, 2022)

How's the midges round that way this time of year?


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

Huw Edwards is a fucking shit reporter.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 6, 2022)

I missed it, was it as equal parts meek and terrifying as I imagined it to be?


----------



## Sue (Sep 6, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Well nothing about grinding the faces of the poor into the dirt.


Is that not taken as read..?


----------



## nottsgirl (Sep 6, 2022)

I think she started off with something about getting Britain back to work. Grimly predictable.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 6, 2022)

When do we get our free money?


----------



## tommers (Sep 6, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Well nothing about grinding the faces of the poor into the dirt. Has she pivoted already away from the Tory members and towards a wider electorate?
> 
> I personally suspect she is an uber evil capitalist warmonger who has a lifelike wax doll of Norman Tebbit in her wardrobe and thinks of Henry Kissinger to come. .
> 
> Time will tell.


I'd say you're exactly right. She also seems dangerously ideological.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 6, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> When do we get our free money?


We have to personally go to Mary and beg for our 'hand outs'.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> When do we get our free money?


When you become a higher rate tax payer


----------



## Fairweather (Sep 6, 2022)

………………..


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Well nothing about grinding the faces of the poor into the dirt. Has she pivoted already away from the Tory members and towards a wider electorate?
> 
> I personally suspect she is an uber evil capitalist warmonger who has a lifelike wax doll of Norman Tebbit in her wardrobe and thinks of Henry Kissinger to come. .
> 
> Time will tell.


Kinky sex makes the world go round


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 6, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> When do we get our free money?


This has been mooted as her plan 








						Truss considers giving £3,000 boost to top 10% of earners by raising tax threshold to £80,000
					

Raising the point at which people begin paying 40 per cent tax would save higher earners an average of £3,000 a year with someone on £80,000 or more taking home an additional £6,000




					inews.co.uk
				




According to this article about 6 million people or about 20% of the workforce earn more than £50K which is less than I thought it was (I thought it was about 30%) The number has gone up due to the threshold not really keeping up with inflation due to Rishi Rich trying to keep tax revenues up but apparently Loopy Lizzie is of a different mind.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)




----------



## LDC (Sep 6, 2022)

FFS can we leave the endless reposts of comedy/not comedy Twitter posts out please? It's turning this place into shit.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

This is one angry, angry statement:


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

LDC said:


> FFS can we leave the endless reposts of comedy/not comedy Twitter posts out please? It's turning this place into shit.


There are only two on this page tbf.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> This is one angry, angry statement:




He worked for Boris Johnson then?


----------



## LDC (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> There are only two on this page tbf.



Yeah maybe, just feels like they're creeping onto all threads and starting to ruin this place.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> This is one angry, angry statement:



"I will take some time out with my young family".

Hurrah for flexible employment.


----------



## Sue (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> There are only two on this page tbf.


Most of your contributions to this thread are twitter posts. It's really tedious.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

Kwasi Kwantang confirmed as chancellor


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

Other topics have dedicated meme threads. Since we’re now looking at years of this Truss thing maybe PR1Berske or someone else can go make a Truss meme comedy thread.



Following the pub chat analogy, it’s like sitting at a table and trying to have a conversation and constantly having it interrupted by people nudging you in the arm going “Makes ya laugh dunnit it! Eh? Eh?” Some of the jjokes may be funny but it’s really annoying and not what I’m at this table for.


----------



## Weller (Sep 6, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sky News online reporting  that Iain Duncan Smith turns down role in Government


Well I just hope he gets stripped of his parliament luncheon benefits or something like Boris he needs to abide by the rules he put in place


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

George Eustice the environment secretary out


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

story said:


> Other topics have dedicated meme threads. Since we’re now looking at years of this Truss thing maybe PR1Berske or someone else can go make a Truss meme comedy thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Following the pub chat analogy, it’s like sitting at a table and trying to have a conversation and constantly having it interrupted by people nudging you in the arm going “Makes ya laugh dunnit it! Eh? Eh?” Some of the jjokes may be funny but it’s really annoying and not what I’m at this table for.


Or she could die in an original and amusing fashion tomorrow


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> George Eustice the environment secretary out


Always sounded like one of those children with no redeeming features who your parents thought you should be friends with because they vaguely knew his parents, an idea utterly repellent


----------



## TopCat (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> There are only two on this page tbf.


Its becoming an increasing issue on Urban75. Instead of posting about something and putting forward a point, why, just repost some twitter shit or a dumb assed meme. Get a few likes and wait for the opps to fall like scythed wheat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

Sue said:


> Most of your contributions to this thread are twitter posts. It's really tedious.


those are his best posts


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

Suella Braverman confirmed as Home secretary


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Suella Braverman confirmed as Home secretary


And the foul dr therese coffey at health and deputy pm. When I encountered her 30 years ago I never thought she'd amount to anything and she's proved me right


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

But these are her first choice picks. Who will she promote when she starts scraping the barrel?


----------



## donkyboy (Sep 6, 2022)




----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 6, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Its becoming an increasing issue on Urban75. Instead of posting about something and putting forward a point, why, just repost some twitter shit or a dumb assed meme. Get a few likes and wait for the opps to fall like scythed wheat.


----------



## rubbershoes (Sep 6, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Suella Braverman confirmed as Home secretary



FFS


----------



## agricola (Sep 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> But these are her first choice picks. Who will she promote when she starts scraping the barrel?



Rory Stewart


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Or she could die in an original and amusing fashion tomorrow




Then I'd go to a real pub and really laugh.


----------



## LDC (Sep 6, 2022)

donkyboy said:


>



FFS. Stop posting shit.


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

donkyboy said:


>




1
We've had this before it's a repost

2
Don't take the piss out of the way people look it's not their fault it's cheap and it adds nothing to the conversation

3
Go back and read the last page of comments saying please stop posting up twits and memes from third parties onto this thread


----------



## Petcha (Sep 6, 2022)

fucks sake. just catching on today's shit. she is absolutely fucking vile. i would actually prefer boris.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 6, 2022)

LDC said:


> FFS. Stop posting shit.


Agreed. That’s just nothing. It’s not funny, insightful, clever, useful, illuminating, diverting or worth looking at. It’s just shit, stupid and probably misogynistic.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 6, 2022)

So just so im clear. She's planning to cut taxes and at the same time bail out the energy issue with eye watering amounts of money by borrowing it? of course the latter has to be done but the former? how's she gonna pay for this?


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

*This is In bold writing for those who aren’t reading the words only looking at the pictures….

It’s really obvious that those who are posting the comedy shit aren’t reading the discussion.
Meanwhile, people who are reading the discussion don’t want the comedy shit.


So, in the voice of the  Viz top tips page:
Comedy posters! Why not go to another corner of the forum and have your fantastic discussion away from the boring old farts who just want to blether on about boring old politics!*


----------



## marty21 (Sep 6, 2022)

Loving the statements of some outgoing ministers , Johnny Mercer saying Truss was entitled to reward her supporters (even though he invented his fucking job) and Greg Clark was privileged to spend 8 weeks as a minister 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> George Eustice the environment secretary out



I always hear his name as George Useless.


----------



## donkyboy (Sep 6, 2022)

story said:


> 3
> Go back and read the last page of comments saying please stop posting up twits and memes from third parties onto this thread


link it for me. too many posts to read


----------



## killer b (Sep 6, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> link it for me. too many posts to read


when you find a terrible meme somewhere on the internet, you can safely assume some other cunt has already shared it with us multiple times so you don't need to bother.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> So just so im clear. She's planning to cut taxes and at the same time bail out the energy issue with eye watering amounts of money by borrowing it? of course the latter has to be done but the former? how's she gonna pay for this?


She's not we are. The energy bailout isn't really her idea, it's the one put forward by the CEO of Scottish Power but with the names changed to protect the guilty. It is actually probably about the best or more accurately least worse from the public's point of view since nationalising was never going to happen in any real world scenario. Because it does borrow and kick the repayment can down the road a while it does make tax cuts in the short term a bit more affordable, trick accounting works as well for Govts as it does for companies and individuals.


----------



## LDC (Sep 6, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> link it for me. too many posts to read



Hoist by your own petard...


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> link it for me. too many posts to read



SRSLY?
You can’t be arsed to go back one page to check whether the posts telling you that you’re pissing people off are also referring to other people who are posting the comedy shit.
Thus proving that people who  are posting this shit are not reading the fucking thread.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 6, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Agreed. That’s just nothing. It’s not funny, insightful, clever, useful, illuminating, diverting or worth looking at. It’s just shit, stupid and probably misogynistic.


Yeah there are hundreds of things to give Truss shit for. What she looks like should not be one of them


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 6, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> She's not we are. The energy bailout isn't really her idea, it's the one put forward by the CEO of Scottish Power but with the names changed to protect the guilty. It is actually probably about the best or more accurately least worse from the public's point of view since nationalising was never going to happen in any real world scenario. Because it does borrow and kick the repayment can down the road a while it does make tax cuts in the short term a bit more affordable, trick accounting works as well for Govts as it does for companies and individuals.


Best would be a proper windfall tax.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> So just so im clear. She's planning to cut taxes and at the same time bail out the energy issue with eye watering amounts of money by borrowing it? of course the latter has to be done but the former? how's she gonna pay for this?


That the problem. It’s a massive gamble that the economy will explode in a second industrial revolution kinda vibe that will easily pay off the debt hanging over us. It’s a beautiful delusion


----------



## story (Sep 6, 2022)

story said:


> *This is In bold writing for those who aren’t reading the words only looking at the pictures….
> 
> It’s really obvious that those who are posting the comedy shit aren’t reading the discussion.
> Meanwhile, people who are reading the discussion don’t want the comedy shit.
> ...




Comedy posters!
I‘ve saved you the trouble and made you a thread.









						A thread for posting memes and pisstakes of Truss, her government, and the end of the world
					

donkyboy  PR1Berske    Knock yourselves out lads




					www.urban75.net
				





If you or anyone else  can offer a better title for it than this shit one, just let me know and I’ll gladly change it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2022)

I popped into a local printer to get a quote today, and he's just come off a fixed price electric deal, which was about £4.5k a year and now he's going to have to pay £18k, with further increases in the pipeline, he's seriously considering calling it a day and folding the business, he's gutted because it would put three guys out of work, businesses are seriously going to be in trouble without proper help.

I am going to post this tweet, because it's not comical, but a good illustration of what fairly small businesses are facing, if Truss doesn't help them.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

Penny Mourdant is the House of commons leader


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 6, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> That the problem. It’s a massive gamble that the economy will explode in a second industrial revolution kinda vibe that will easily pay off the debt hanging over us. It’s a beautiful delusion


Cut taxes and it will spur growth is pretty much an article of faith with these people, there's very little evidence of that ever being true but they still cling to it.


----------



## Spandex (Sep 6, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Best would be a proper windfall tax.


Yeah, windfall taxes aren't some crazy socialist idea. Truss' role model, Thatcher, levied windfall taxes on banks and on North Sea oil & gas. They're a tried and tested way to raise public money when a sector's profits run out of control. There's no reason to rule out a windfall tax on energy companies to pay for a price freeze. Shit, the government would be taking money from the energy companies and then giving it back to them. Ruling it out is pure, idiotic, deep in the pocket of greedy energy producers cuntitude.


----------



## LDC (Sep 6, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Penny Mourdant is the House of commons leader



You know we can all read the news as well? Rather than waiting for you to post edited highlights.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Its becoming an increasing issue on Urban75. Instead of posting about something and putting forward a point, why, just repost some twitter shit or a dumb assed meme. Get a few likes and wait for the opps to fall like scythed wheat.



hey the meme hate is grating

the posting of random twitter shite is the bigger issue


----------



## contadino (Sep 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I wondered that too, apparently it was for security reasons, which I guess is understandable, but still no reason why they couldn't have travelled up yesterday by train or a commercial flight rather than two fucking private jets.
> 
> 
> 
> Also for security reasons, those armed cops need to be in cars.


Yeah, can you imagine the tedium of another leadership contest should a terrific accident happen and kill them both?

ETA. Terrible. I meant to say terrible.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 6, 2022)

If it helps, I'd be delighted if the _Liz Truss dressed as..._ thread was to become a repository for any mirth-filled fun at the expense of La Truss.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

aye that what the thread was for


saying that the memes will die off after a few days the boris thread was not ruined by them


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I popped into a local printer to get a quote today, and he's just come off a fixed price electric deal, which was about £4.5k a year and now he's going to have to pay £18k, with further increases in the pipeline, he's seriously considering calling it a day and folding the business, he's gutted because it would put three guys out of work, businesses are seriously going to be in trouble without proper help.
> 
> I am going to post this tweet, because it's not comical, but a good illustration of what fairly small businesses are facing, if Truss doesn't help them.



My friends who run a small co-op business were lucky enough to get a fixed rate for two years earlier this year. Unless the government helps out, businesses that got lucky with their fixed rates are the only ones that will survive. The new rates are just not absorbable. I feel like Truss will have to address it. She'll probably manage to do it in a really shit way that makes her energy company friends rich and still drives a load of small businesses to the edge of bankruptcy though.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 6, 2022)

At risk of incurring much anti-tweet ire...this looks rather troubling. Unsurprising, I suppose, but still troubling:


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2022)

So, she's going to 'deliver, deliver, deliver.'

Has she taken a second job with deliveroo?


----------



## contadino (Sep 6, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> She's not we are. The energy bailout isn't really her idea, it's the one put forward by the CEO of Scottish Power but with the names changed to protect the guilty. It is actually probably about the best or more accurately least worse from the public's point of view since nationalising was never going to happen in any real world scenario. Because it does borrow and kick the repayment can down the road a while it does make tax cuts in the short term a bit more affordable, trick accounting works as well for Govts as it does for companies and individuals.


Not sure it's the least worst. This idea that they're trying to implement in Europe seems pretty sensible - decouple electricity prices from gas prices. Let cheaper renewables sell for less.

This current UK plan looks like subsidies for fossil fuel producers dressed up as good for consumers.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> So, she's going to 'deliver, deliver, deliver.'
> 
> Has she taken a second job with deliveroo?



Deliver Deliver Deliver low taxes and profits for energy companies and share holders


Workhouses and soup kitchens for the rest of us

she did not want to say it on the first day


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> At risk of incurring much anti-tweet ire...this looks rather troubling. Unsurprising, I suppose, but still troubling:
> 
> View attachment 341337




"Since God has given us the _papacy_, let us _enjoy it"_


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> This is one angry, angry statement:




I'm wary of posting this, because it's a tweet, but it is currently the only way to share an update on the sacking of Johnny Mercer.

His wife has detailed the conversion with Mercer and Lizz, and has included a mocking pastiche of her.

On the topic of posting from Twitter, I'll continue where I believe it's appropriate or necessary, but I've taken on board that comedy/memes are not for this particular thread and I'll ensure that my contributions are directly related to the topic from now on. I enjoy my time here and want to balance sharing constructive Twitter links with behaving properly here.


Anyway. Here's the tweet in response to the above one.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> So, she's going to 'deliver, deliver, deliver.'
> 
> Has she taken a second job with deliveroo?


Naah, deliveroo do actually deliver.  

She’d be Hermes. Just chuck it over a fence and fuck off.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

i'd feel sorry for him but he a Tory who aside from being around since 2015 and never whined under Johnson

got caught making money from a second job, fiddling his expenses

and making sure vets don't have any pesky problems from human rights bodies

and his voting record

Voting record - Johnny Mercer MP, Plymouth, Moor View


----------



## 8ball (Sep 6, 2022)

I’ve been joking along with this thread, but over the last few minutes it’s sunk in that she’s actually Prime Minister.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

for the record i've not been joking about in the thread and have been watching the last few months in growing alarm
and we are now here with a fucking useless Health sec with no experience who is also against same sex marriage and abortions

and liz truss as pm


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 6, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> for the record i've not been joking about in the thread and have been watching the last few months in growing alarm
> and we are now here with a fucking useless Health sec with no experience who is also against same sex marriage and abortions
> 
> and liz truss as pm


Yes indeed it has train wreck written all over it


----------



## 8ball (Sep 6, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> for the record i've not been joking about in the thread and have been watching the last few months in growing alarm
> and we are now here with a fucking useless Health sec with no experience who is also against same sex marriage and abortions
> 
> and liz truss as pm



Oh, it will be a shitshow like we’ve never seen, but sometimes there’s something to be said for ripping off the plaster quickly.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> At risk of incurring much anti-tweet ire...this looks rather troubling. Unsurprising, I suppose, but still troubling:
> 
> View attachment 341337



Indeed. Further evidence of the mainstreaming of the insurgent right. A few years ago the TPA were widely understood as cranks - even by most Tories. Now they are proximate to genuine power. Also, see Braverman, Cleverly and Kwarteng in the top jobs. All signed up or confirmed fellow travellers of the same tendency.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 6, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Indeed. Further evidence of the mainstreaming of the insurgent right. A few years ago the TPA were widely understood as cranks - even by most Tories. Now they are proximate to genuine power. Also, see Braverman, Cleverly and Kwarteng in the top jobs. All signed up or confirmed fellow travellers of the same tendency.



I hadn’t even looked at the rest of the Cabinet yet.  Didn’t realise it would be out so quickly.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> At risk of incurring much anti-tweet ire...this looks rather troubling. Unsurprising, I suppose, but still troubling:
> 
> View attachment 341337


When do we get to the pitchforks and heads on pikes bit?


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2022)

Thank god I hate Business.  If anyone deserves JRM, it’s them.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2022)

belboid said:


> Thank god I hate Business.  If anyone deserves JRM, it’s them.



I still can't believe he's got what is actually a serious and important job, unbelievable.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I still can't believe he's got what is actually a serious and important job, unbelievable.


Let's no forget...


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

oh a climate denier as energy minister

he have kids down the fucking mines by Christmas

suitable he has always look like Dickensian villain


The Makeup Industry’s Darkest Secret Is Hiding In Your Makeup Bag


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 6, 2022)

Is Truss a member of the ERG?


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 6, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> oh a climate denier as energy minister
> 
> he have kids down the fucking mines by Christmas
> 
> suitable he has also look like Dickensian villian


I can't see him lasting. The business sector will give him a dose of brexit reality he will have to reconcile with his sad little fantasy or quit. Same with Braverman, when she tries to ban the RNLI or something, or start a naval war with France


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

you are more hopefully that me when he be giving out tax cuts like its christmas 

profit is not illegal as the boss said before she was pm


----------



## Supine (Sep 6, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Is Truss a member of the ERG?



In the pocket of.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 6, 2022)

Brandon Lewis as justice secretary. A reward for someone who stood up in the House of Bullshitters to declare the government's intention to break international law


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

Supine said:


> In the pocket of.


That's the response I was about to make.

Not to sound like I'm giving myself away here, only I'm perhaps happier finding some light in the rapidly closing darkness of both the autumn nights and the current Government, which is why I'm hiding amongst the lighter side of social media rather than the grim side of political discussion.

Anyway, I think it is rather obvious that the Brexit extremists have been playing a very long game. They ensured Leave would win, pushed out Theresa May for daring to want compromise over purity, and held Boris over the flames over their American-style libertarianism (see how they morphed into anti -mask loons).

Now they managed to ensure Penny Mordant didn't make the ballot and got Truss to No 10. They're almost at the end of their project, if that's what all this has been leading to: "Singapore -on-Thames" for London and bugger the rest of us.

(Tangent: I'm not a conspiracy theorist, as my posting history on the COVID threads should prove. I don't believe that there are men in corridors plotting to overtake the country by closing down burger joints and the local pub. Most of what we're seeing is a group of dim Englishman {{sic}} who would like to be Republicans/Evangelicals trying ever so hard and getting it wrong, rather than any grand plan from above)


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 6, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Is Truss a member of the ERG?


She was a remainer at one point


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 6, 2022)

8ball said:


> I hadn’t even looked at the rest of the Cabinet yet.  Didn’t realise it would be out so quickly.




Rees Mogg as industrial and energy secretary.


libera te tutemet ex infernis


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> So just so im clear. She's planning to cut taxes and at the same time bail out the energy issue with eye watering amounts of money by borrowing it? of course the latter has to be done but the former? how's she gonna pay for this?



Even some tories are uneasy about the tax cuts, or at least how they will look, and the media hasnt been completely shy of pointing out how it looks either.

Plenty of the concerns arent about the actual effect this will have on increasing inequality, its that the tax cutting stuff rather gets in the way of even the flimsiest of pretences of giving a shit about fairness and redistribution of wealth. This doesnt make much difference to all of us who have never taken such fig leafs seriously, but the concern is it makes it harder for those whose job it is to sell us the usual bullshit, to justify that crap, to dress shit up, to tell certain lies with a straight face. It makes it harder for them to frame stuff, the contradiction becomes too obvious for even a relatively complicit managerial media class to avoid pointing it out.


----------



## Thaw (Sep 6, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I'm sure Smith has the intellectual horsepower to formulate economic policy in a recession. He didn't go to university but he only took 6 years in the army to rise to the rank of Lieutenant.


No fan of IDS but so what if he didn't go to university ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Andrew Marr says Iain Duncan Smith and John Redwood are tipped for treasury jobs. A Liz Truss government means the return of the radical right Anyone care to predict when the rioting starts?
> 
> I'm sure Smith has the intellectual horsepower to formulate economic policy in a recession. He didn't go to university but he only took 6 years in the army to rise to the rank of Lieutenant.
> 
> edit: in case any of his constituents are reading this, and are under the impression that he has a degree and a business studies qualification, because that's what he told you, I refer you to Newsnight of 19/12/02 BBC - Press Office - Iain Duncan Smith CV


You're something of a snob I see


----------



## Raheem (Sep 6, 2022)

Thaw said:


> No fan of IDS but so what if he didn't go to university ?


It's the lying about it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Andrew Marr says Iain Duncan Smith and John Redwood are tipped for treasury jobs. A Liz Truss government means the return of the radical right Anyone care to predict when the rioting starts?
> 
> I'm sure Smith has the intellectual horsepower to formulate economic policy in a recession. He didn't go to university but he only took 6 years in the army to rise to the rank of Lieutenant.
> 
> edit: in case any of his constituents are reading this, and are under the impression that he has a degree and a business studies qualification, because that's what he told you, I refer you to Newsnight of 19/12/02 BBC - Press Office - Iain Duncan Smith CV


I didn't know that 1977 was six years after 1975


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2022)

The most notable nightmare prospect I was aware of being floated in the press recently, but that hasnt come to pass today, is that Badenoch didnt get to be education minister, got international trade instead.

But I think she had also been tipped for that role previously, eg a year ago. Presumably they have so far only been willing to engage in culture war shit stirring to the more limited extent of dangling that prospect in front of people in the media, rather than fully pressing the trigger by actually going ahead with that appointment. I guess they like to excite from time to time the segment of their base that is well into culture wars shit, without actually fully unlocking those horrors at their most extreme.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 6, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I'm sure Smith has the intellectual horsepower to formulate economic policy in a recession. He didn't go to university but he only took 6 years in the army to rise to the rank of Lieutenant.



the work will set you free guy


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2022)

Raheem said:


> It's the lying about it.


So that'll excuse David Clapson lying about him then


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

Tom Tugendhat has been appointed Minister for Security within the Home Office, so that's a largely "middle of the road, Cameron-like" Conservative working directly underneath a largely "anti-everything' right-winger. 

Might need more biscuits around the table when the Home Office first meets.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 6, 2022)

elbows said:


> Even some tories are uneasy about the tax cuts, or at least how they will look, and the media hasnt been completely shy of pointing out how it looks either.
> 
> Plenty of the concerns arent about the actual effect this will have on increasing inequality, its that the tax cutting stuff rather gets in the way of even the flimsiest of pretences of giving a shit about fairness and redistribution of wealth. This doesnt make much difference to all of us who have never taken such fig leafs seriously, but the concern is it makes it harder for those whose job it is to sell us the usual bullshit, to justify that crap, to dress shit up, to tell certain lies with a straight face. It makes it harder for them to frame stuff, the contradiction becomes too obvious for even a relatively complicit managerial media class to avoid pointing it out.



The obvious thing to do here is clearly to make a price 'cap' an actual 'cap' and stop moving the goalposts and raise taxes for the rich and corporations to cover this freezing the price hikes. And leave poorer peoples taxes alone, or hell yeh, cut those. Or is that too obvious.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The obvious thing to do here is clearly to make a price 'cap' an actual 'cap' and stop moving the goalposts and raise taxes for the rich and corporations to cover this freezing the price hikes. And leave poorer peoples taxes alone, or hell yeh, cut those. Or is that too obvious.


As has been said enough times on this forum and elsewhere, "a price cap which keeps rising is just a price"


----------



## Petcha (Sep 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Tom Tugendhat has been appointed Minister for Security within the Home Office, so that's a largely "middle of the road, Cameron-like" Conservative working directly underneath a largely "anti-everything' right-winger.
> 
> Might need more biscuits around the table when the Home Office first meets.



The Cameron side of the party is positively left wing compared to this lot meeting at cabinet tomorrow (and i have the misfortune to work for one of DC's best buddies) whose words to me on Truss's election were 'it's very depressing. that's the end of the Tories for the next election'. So silver linings n all that. They've shot themselves in the foot quite spectacularly here.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> So that'll excuse David Clapson lying about him then


If a liar gets lied about by a liar, he's still a liar.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 7, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The obvious thing to do here is clearly to make a price 'cap' an actual 'cap' and stop moving the goalposts and raise taxes for the rich and corporations to cover this freezing the price hikes. And leave poorer peoples taxes alone, or hell yeh, cut those. Or is that too obvious.


Too impossible outside the EU?


----------



## teqniq (Sep 7, 2022)

A very bleak outlook on the Truss administration (thread):


----------



## bluescreen (Sep 7, 2022)

teqniq said:


> A very bleak outlook on the Truss administration (thread):



How much are people going to stand for?


----------



## LDC (Sep 7, 2022)

teqniq said:


> A very bleak outlook on the Truss administration (thread):




Twitter increasingly impossible to look at without an account unfortunately.


----------



## Supine (Sep 7, 2022)

Nine members of ERG in the cabinet. Great. 

Thérèse Coffey
James Cleverly
Suella Braverman
Brandon Lewis
Penny Mordaunt
Jacob Rees-Mogg
Kit Malthouse
Anne-Marie Trevelyan
Chris Heaton-Harris


----------



## teqniq (Sep 7, 2022)

LDC said:


> Twitter increasingly impossible to look at without an account unfortunately.


Here you go:









						Thread by @RichardJMurphy on Thread Reader App
					

@RichardJMurphy: Yesterday was bad. It was, in fact, very, very bad. If Johnson was a disaster, Truss has set out to be worse. I very much doubt that any prime minister has set out to create...




					threadreaderapp.com


----------



## teqniq (Sep 7, 2022)

Also from Twitter but I've done screenshots for those with no accounts or inclination to look. If Truss and co think they're going to get a free ride over potentially trashing the NI protocol from the US, they had better think again:


----------



## LDC (Sep 7, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks loads! I might have to take the plunge and join one day.


----------



## bluescreen (Sep 7, 2022)

When he says 


> They believe that out there in the economy are new businesses who have only been waiting for the destruction of government for them to emerge into the marketplace so that they can replace the services the government supplies now.


of course much of that is already happening with schools, prisons, water companies, rail transport, energy supply, postal services etc - and creeping into the NHS... Look how well it's going so far.


----------



## Knotted (Sep 7, 2022)

My hunch is that Truss is a survivor, I think she'll even survive a general election. The incompetence and the u-turns frankly aren't important as long as the government placates public opinion and outflanks Labour. For all her hardline Thatcherite talk she isn't a fiscal conservative and is more than willing to run up debt.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> My hunch is that Truss is a survivor, I think she'll even survive a general election. The incompetence and the u-turns frankly aren't important as long as the government placates public opinion and outflanks Labour. For all her hardline Thatcherite talk she isn't a fiscal conservative and is more than willing to run up debt.


Not an unreasonable hunch...but...if the proposed cap cap on energy is set a £2.5k (twice the 'normal average' household burden), then folk are still going to be a good deal poorer/feel a good deal poorer. All the while he zealot cabinet will be coming out with hugely unpopular 'reforms' that are massively popular with the few hundred Tufty wonks that they've surrounded themselves with. For all her talk of growth, she's about to preside over a brutal recessionary period.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 7, 2022)

LDC said:


> Thanks loads! I might have to take the plunge and join one day.


You wouldn't like it, they're all Twitter threads


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 7, 2022)

Supine said:


> Nine members of ERG in the cabinet. Great.
> 
> Thérèse Coffey
> James Cleverly
> ...



It would be a mistake to conceive of the group around Truss as representing the capture of power by the ERG alone. Whilst the ERG is the organized core among MP's there is a much wider archipelago of groups (Spiked for one), right wing think tanks (the IEA for one), economists being exhumed from the intellectual dead (Minford for one), other 'intellectuals' (Goodwin for one) and media grifters (take your pick) coming to the fore here. Badenoch's campaign was a test bed for some of their ideas and social and cultural stances.

Truss' ambition - and that of those around her - is impressive. This isn't just an operation to deliver the usual Tory priorities of destroying the unions and organized working class, ripping apart what's left of the state and the organization of the transfer of wealth from us to them. There is a deeper social and cultural set of priorities about to be foregrounded here too (first shot is the colour and gender of those at the top of the operation). A clear desire to remake things in a more permanent way. The question of course is the extent to which Truss will have the ability and political space and agency to deliver on it. But, if you just watch the ERG you'll miss what's happening in the round. For those who were lucky enough not to live through the 80's what's coming (or what will be attempted at least) represents a serious rise of the ante by their side that we haven't seen since then.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 7, 2022)

That’s a pretty seedy backstabby cabinet she’s got there. All scum you wouldn’t want to be chained to a radiator fir 2 years with. Fuck me, is is possible to Find a less qualified , less trustworthy group of people to work for you ? I almost feel sorry for her*


*Not really. Fuck her


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 7, 2022)

If she introduces this cap, will it completely defang Don't Pay, and will that have a significant 'deflating' effect on any resistance movement, including EiE?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 7, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> If she introduces this cap, will it completely defang Don't Pay, and will that have a significant 'deflating' effect on any resistance movement, including EiE?



In terms of EiE, no for 4 reasons:


As I understand it Truss is going to announce that we will have to pay back the costs of the intervention on energy bills either though higher taxation or higher energy bills for 10-20 years. Her approach is best understood is merely a delayed transfer of money from the 99% to the rich, a slower bleed out.  
inflation is being caused by rising prices, which are being driven by corporate greed and non-labour input costs. Nothing Truss will do will improve that. In fact, corporation tax cuts and wider tax cuts will simply transfer more money to those who already have it and further fuel inflation. The Bank of England will bravely respond by further increasing interest rates further causing increased poverty and misery.
millions of people are already broke and in fuel and food poverty (Fuel poverty: estimates for the UK) The crisis is here, capping gas and leccy bills, at best, slows down the severity of it.
the EiE demands are wider than energy prices and focus on pay rises, food poverty, housing and taxing the rich.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 7, 2022)

teqniq said:


> A very bleak outlook on the Truss administration (thread):




I do recall some of these things were said about Johnson when he first got in.
But with the pandemic and Brexit more or less out of the way, she has less to get sidetracked with.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> My hunch is that Truss is a survivor, I think she'll even survive a general election. The incompetence and the u-turns frankly aren't important as long as the government placates public opinion and outflanks Labour. For all her hardline Thatcherite talk she isn't a fiscal conservative and is more than willing to run up debt.



You could be right about surviving anything Labour throws at her, and maybe a GE, but I have my doubts about how long she will survive the machinations of the Tory party for.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 7, 2022)

8ball said:


> I do recall some of these things were said about Johnson when he first got in.
> But with the pandemic and Brexit more or less out of the way, she has less to get sidetracked with.


are either of those things out the way? Brexit certainly isn't, as Mogg will discover when he starts interacting with businesses. He won't care or listen of course


----------



## 8ball (Sep 7, 2022)

LDC said:


> Twitter increasingly impossible to look at without an account unfortunately.



Was fine for me, but seems a bit random for some reason - I often can't see things.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 7, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> are either of those things out the way? Brexit certainly isn't, as Mogg will discover when he starts interacting with businesses. He won't care or listen of course



Hence the "more or less".  Brexit has actually been done.  Both that and the pandemic will obv have ongoing consequences.


----------



## countingtozero (Sep 7, 2022)

LDC said:


> Thanks loads! I might have to take the plunge and join one day.


You might find the following service helpful, a way to read twitter without signing up:




__





						nitter
					






					nitter.net
				



 so e.g:





						Richard Murphy (@RichardJMurphy)
					

Yesterday was bad. It was, in fact, very, very bad. If Johnson was a disaster, Truss has set out to be worse. I very much doubt that any prime minister has set out to create so many conflicts from the outset of their premiership in the way that Truss has. A thread….




					nitter.net


----------



## Supine (Sep 7, 2022)

8ball said:


> Hence the "more or less".  Brexit has actually been done.  Both that and the pandemic will obv have ongoing consequences.



Inflation has been rising since Q1 2020. The brexit effect is a snowball that keeps getting bigger. We will only know the hardwired impact on inflation when the war/energy issue is out of the way. Both are unfortunately significant factors on the current crisis.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> My hunch is that Truss is a survivor, I think she'll even survive a general election. The incompetence and the u-turns frankly aren't important as long as the government placates public opinion and outflanks Labour. For all her hardline Thatcherite talk she isn't a fiscal conservative and is more than willing to run up debt.



My sense is that she'd lose an election against anyone else than the current Labour party. Though Starmer seems kind of competent, his front bench are absolutely useless from what I can tell. But hey, Truss has just appointed the weirdest cabinet ever so you never know.

Bring on MMP. I don't want a binary choice. There's plenty of other talent languishing in parties that will never see action in Government.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 7, 2022)

8ball said:


> Hence the "more or less".  Brexit has actually been done.  Both that and the pandemic will obv have ongoing consequences.


Well we've left the EU, yes. But I woulnd't call this omnishambles done at all.


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

8ball said:


> Hence the "more or less".  Brexit has actually been done.  Both that and the pandemic will obv have ongoing consequences.



When you say ‘Brexit has actually been done’ do you mean that what was voted for in the 2016 referendum has happened, or is the word ‘Brexit’ referring to something else?


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Well we've left the EU, yes. But I woulnd't call this omnishambles done at all.



When you use the word ‘we’ in this context do you mean all constituent parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?


----------



## two sheds (Sep 7, 2022)

When you use the word 'when' in this context do you mean now, or in the past or some time in the future?


----------



## belboid (Sep 7, 2022)

philosophical said:


> When you say ‘Brexit has actually been done’ do you mean that what was voted for in the 2016 referendum has happened, or is the word ‘Brexit’ referring to something else?


Fuck off


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 7, 2022)

philosophical said:


> When you use the word ‘we’ in this context do you mean all constituent parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?


NI is doing better thanks to the protocol than everyone else, iirc. In response the DUP holds Stormont hostage and the Tories are now possessed by those who think the protocol is entirely irredeemable and blame the EU for all the problems they were warned would happen. I don't consider that to be done.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 7, 2022)

Thaw said:


> No fan of IDS but so what if he didn't go to university ?


The point is that he pretended that he did. As you can see from my post. The post you replied to. And other people's posts.


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> NI is doing better thanks to the protocol than everyone else, iirc. In response the DUP holds Stormont hostage and the Tories are now possessed by those who think the protocol is entirely irredeemable and blame the EU for all the problems they were warned would happen. I don't consider that to be done.


Fair enough. ‘We’ haven’t left the EU.


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> Fuck off


You forgot to add ‘you cunt’.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 7, 2022)

philosophical said:


> You forgot to add ‘you cunt’.



Fuck off, you cunt.

Better?


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

and meme where ruing the thread


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 7, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Cut taxes and it will spur growth is pretty much an article of faith with these people, there's very little evidence of that ever being true but they still cling to it.


yeah Its laughably naïve, has trickle down ever worked, I dont think so.


----------



## belboid (Sep 7, 2022)

philosophical said:


> You forgot to add ‘you cunt’.


‘You tedious bore’ would be the appropriate phrase. 

Or maybe ‘brain dead fuckwit who understands nothing’


----------



## two sheds (Sep 7, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> yeah Its laughably naïve, has trickle down ever worked, I dont think so.



Always worked for the people at the top


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 7, 2022)

Now that we know that Truss the cunt prefers far right ministers, as opposed to unity, rioting looks more and more likely.  Would it be feasible to get rid of her with something like the Poll Tax Riot, but on Stilts?  We are very timid when it comes to rioting. We have more power than we realise, but we don't use it. If we were French, and come November we were freezing and going to food banks, we'd be on the streets, and we'd win.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 7, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Now that we know that Truss the cunt prefers far right ministers, as opposed to unity, rioting looks more and more likely.  Would it be feasible to get rid of her with something like the Poll Tax Riot, but on Stilts?  We are very timid when it comes to rioting. We have more power than we realise, but we don't use it. If we were French, and come November we were freezing and going to food banks, we'd be on the streets, and we'd win.



I assume you exclude from your brilliant plan the brain dead Brexit voting northerners you were hoping would starve a few pages ago?


----------



## Petcha (Sep 7, 2022)

I very rarely venture into my offices but as mentioned above it's a tory agency, with senior former tories running it, and all of them, without exception, are mightyily fucked off that Truss has got in as it virtually assures the Labour party of victory. It's pretty funny overhearing these conversations. Sounds like its basically a done deal. They're already prepping our clients for what a labour govt is gonna mean for them so yeh, this is actually a good thing. Two years.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 7, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I assume you exclude from your brilliant plan the brain dead Brexit voting northerners you were hoping would starve a few pages ago?


I didn't say I hoped they would starve. Twat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I didn't say I hoped they would starve. Twat.


I think you'd be happier with hypothermia


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> ‘You tedious bore’ would be the appropriate phrase.
> 
> Or maybe ‘brain dead fuckwit who understands nothing’


Is that the exasperated bit?
You


cupid_stunt said:


> Fuck off, you cunt.
> 
> Better?


Yep.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 7, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> I didn't say I hoped they would starve. Twat.





David Clapson said:


> I blame Northerners. The muppets who believe whatever's on the side of a bus. How's that leveling out working for you? If you survive the winter, just don't vote, ever again.


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> ‘You tedious bore’ would be the appropriate phrase.
> 
> Or maybe ‘brain dead fuckwit who understands nothing’


You’re possibly being a bit hard on yourself.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 7, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> yeah Its laughably naïve, has trickle down ever worked, I dont think so.



They don't really give a fuck if it works or not though do they. They want some sort of excuse for cutting taxes, it sounds just about plausible to their target audience so it will do.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 7, 2022)

Day one of Truss, and Sky is reporting the polling average is - Con 31.1% / Lab 42%


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 7, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Day one of Truss, and Sky is reporting the polling average is - Con 31.1% / Lab 42%


No new leader bounce yet then?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 7, 2022)

Making Scully the spiv a "Levelling up" minister shows, beyond doubt, that Truss has no intention of running with blustercunt's smoke and mirrors. Clearly the 'red-wall' polling is so dire that they're not even gonna bother to try.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 7, 2022)

This is a depressing read:

Apologies if it’s already been posted. CBA to check.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 7, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> This is a depressing read:
> 
> Apologies if it’s already been posted. CBA to check.



The Prof is not a fan is he?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 7, 2022)

'kinnel, I know I shouldn't obsess about the actual individuals...but Steve Baker as the fucking NI minister...FFS


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

fuck me just what north Ireland needs. another a born again Christian head banger


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 7, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I very rarely venture into my offices but as mentioned above it's a tory agency, with senior former tories running it, and all of them, without exception, are mightyily fucked off that Truss has got in as it virtually assures the Labour party of victory. It's pretty funny overhearing these conversations. Sounds like its basically a done deal. They're already prepping our clients for what a labour govt is gonna mean for them so yeh, this is actually a good thing. Two years.


It is, at this point, my only hope. 

At my most optimistic, the whole cabinet has a look of the dieing days of the Brown Government where they either look dog tired, massively out of their depth but with inane and completely misguided self confidence, or chancers who see this as their last optunity before getting shafted at the next GE or just outright retiring.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 7, 2022)

Has she given bad Enoch a role or did she support sunak?


cupid_stunt said:


> Day one of Truss, and Sky is reporting the polling average is - Con 31.1% / Lab 42%


Dinnertime it was con 32% / Lab 39% .


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

I thought it was Chris Heaton-Harris who is the Northern Ireland man.
He was an ERG person who now has to resolve the land border issue between the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the European Union that has been brought into focus by everybody who voted leave in the 2016 referendum.


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 7, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> fuck me just what north Ireland needs. another a born again Christian head banger


How fucking predictable of you, intolerant arsehole


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> How fucking predictable of you, intolerant arsehole



hmm so i'm against the anti abortion guy who does not like same sex marriage also because of his religion
and i'm the intolerant arsehole

care to explain further ya fucking windbag


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

also same guy who help negotiate the oven ready deal and North Ireland protocol but is going to rip it up
as it does not suit his business model

explain how i'm writing this guy off as a prick to harshly


----------



## brogdale (Sep 7, 2022)

philosophical said:


> I thought it was Chris Heaton-Harris who is the Northern Ireland man.
> He was an ERG person who now has to resolve the land border issue between the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the European Union that has been brought into focus by everybody who voted leave in the 2016 referendum.
> 
> View attachment 341481


Yes, to clarify, Baker has been appointed as a Minister; Heaton-Harris is the SoS.
Both headbangers.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 7, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm so i'm against the anti abortion guy who does not like same sex marriage also because of his religion
> and i'm the intolerant arsehole
> 
> care to explain further ya fucking windbag


Where has that fuckwit come from?


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

Russ has been around for a bit , has come across like a daft twat likes to make potato jokes about north ireland being his high point so far on the boards

or are you talking about Steve baker?


----------



## elbows (Sep 7, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Has she given bad Enoch a role or did she support sunak?


International trade.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

hmm wonder what Steve Baker role in all this is


----------



## spitfire (Sep 7, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> Russ has been around for a bit , has come across like a daft twat likes to make potato jokes about north ireland being his high point so far on the boards
> 
> or are you talking about Steve baker?



Oh that clown is back again.

He never did explain his idiotic comment about potatoes.


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 7, 2022)

The Yorkshire Post has written an open letter to Truss the cunt: 'Whose side are you on, Prime Minister?' - An open letter to Liz Truss from The Yorkshire Post



> Boris Johnson....all but destroyed any trust that previously existed between the electorate and those who govern... We do not believe the Westminster elite and its caravan of Whitehall sycophants cares a jot about we who live and work in the regions. ‘Levelling Up’ to date has proved a unicorn policy that exists only in the rhetoric of those who wish to deceive us.



No shit Sherlock!  So why did your readers vote for Brexit and Johnson?? Were they stupid enough to be suckered? Or are they just racists? Somebody please write to the editor on my behalf.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

hey Clapson you can redirect some of the anger to the media of this country the mail, the sun and others  rather than the voters

they have been lied with a massive disinformation campaign for years and some fell for it


----------



## philosophical (Sep 7, 2022)

What Truss is saying it seems to me, is that the ‘protocol’ negotiated, agreed to, and signed up to by the UK is threatening the GFA because it is increasing tension between the supposed two communities in Northern Ireland.
That is the no shit Sherlock bit.
The solution is to have a proper customs union between the UK and the EU.
However she has put two headbanger ERG people in place who say ‘leaving’ means no customs union.
In order for the EU to protect the integrity of their single market the only solution would be a hard border, which would threaten and smash the GFA.
It is becoming a who blinks first scenario with the extra spice of Biden warning Truss yesterday to negotiate a solution with the EU. Which is what the UK did when it suggested the protocol it now says threatens the GFA and the UK wants to dump.
There is no solution possible in the current circumstances.
The simple choice it seems to me is a customs Union aka the UK rejoining the EU, or a hard border which (as the PSNI have warned) will lead to violence and death.
This situation has been brought on by everybody who voted leave.
If anybody reading this has a practical, workable and acceptable solution then maybe they could say what it is.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 7, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> The Yorkshire Post has written an open letter to Truss the cunt: 'Whose side are you on, Prime Minister?' - An open letter to Liz Truss from The Yorkshire Post
> 
> 
> 
> No shit Sherlock!  So why did your readers vote for Brexit and Johnson?? Were they stupid enough to be suckered? Or are they just racists? Somebody please write to the editor on my behalf.



did they? all of them? or even most of them?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 7, 2022)

So we seem to have the a tory version of the adams family for a government - chock full of right wing headbanging freaks and cranks. Probably electorally suicidal - but just how much damage are they going to do before they get booted out? fucking grim.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 7, 2022)

I think it's time to start stockpiling bog roll again.

We've already ordered one of them two-ring camping stoves with a grill underneath so we can make beans on toast for christmas dinner when the power goes out.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2022)

does not sound like fun bog roll

but aye i expect runs on random products

this winter causes by price concerns

fresh fruit and meat will be effected by a serious co2 shortage


----------



## David Clapson (Sep 7, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> did they? all of them? or even most of them?











						EU referendum: The result in maps and charts
					

How did the Leave camp clinch victory in the referendum on the UK's membership of the EU after what was a very closely fought contest?



					www.bbc.co.uk
				











						Election results 2019: Analysis in maps and charts
					

Analysis in of the 2019 general election in maps and charts.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 7, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> The Yorkshire Post has written an open letter to Truss the cunt: 'Whose side are you on, Prime Minister?' - An open letter to Liz Truss from The Yorkshire Post
> 
> 
> 
> No shit Sherlock!  So why did your readers vote for Brexit and Johnson?? Were they stupid enough to be suckered? Or are they just racists? Somebody please write to the editor on my behalf.


Christ you're a thick cunt


----------



## AnandLeo (Sep 8, 2022)

The government borrowed hundreds of billions of pounds during the Covid pandemic and has to borrow similar sum for cost of living relief. Oil companies are making bumper profits, many times the profits they made in the previous years, largely attributed to soaring prices because of the invasion of Ukraine. Households and businesses pay for the soaring prices and profits of energy, which constitute a large portion of the income or benefits.

UK oil and gas companies pay total corporation tax on their profits at 40%. However, they also benefit from a wide range of tax reliefs for investment and decommissioning. The result is that most UK oil and gas companies have barely paid any tax over the last five years.









						The case for a UK windfall tax on oil and gas giants is unanswerable | Michael Jacobs
					

While the likes of BP make colossal profits, consumers face huge bills. The solution is clear, says professor of political economy Michael Jacobs




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## ska invita (Sep 8, 2022)

sorry not been paying attention...am i right in thinking this 130billion bail out is basically tax payers money going to private companies to "compensate" them for a price cap?


----------



## Raheem (Sep 8, 2022)

ska invita said:


> sorry not been paying attention...am i right in thinking this 130billion bail out is basically tax payers money going to private companies to "compensate" them for a price cap?


It hasn't been announced yet, buy yes. Like volunteering to do the prison time for your burglar.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 8, 2022)

Raheem said:


> It hasn't been announced yet, buy yes. Like volunteering to do the prison time for your burglar.


ffs
so much for her trumpeted market discipline
i wonder if the quantitative money printing will kick in again


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 8, 2022)

Capital being bailed out by other peoples money. Again


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2022)

I think they'll struggle to get this through because it's not like truss was the mps' choice as leader and it's obviously really fucking stupid


----------



## killer b (Sep 8, 2022)

Interesting twitter thread here that looks at the (potentially eyewatering) figures Truss's current proposals could easily snowball to.


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 8, 2022)

killer b said:


> Interesting twitter thread here that looks at the (potentially eyewatering) figures Truss's current proposals could easily snowball to.



For all the non-twitter users out there 








						Thread by @EdConwaySky on Thread Reader App
					

@EdConwaySky: V big day for the economy and country. We’re about to see quite possibly the single biggest fiscal intervention by any peacetime government in history. This is something that’ll affect all of us - even...…




					threadreaderapp.com


----------



## magneze (Sep 8, 2022)

So, the "solution" is effectively a new Energy Tax? All this talk about cutting the "green levy" is actually hiding a massive new tax. Not hiding particularly well, mind.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 8, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Capital being bailed out by other peoples money. Again


Managers of the neoliberal consolidator state doing as managers of the neoliberal consolidator state do.


----------



## gosub (Sep 8, 2022)

Liz Truss to unveil energy bill price cap 

That's really going to help with the thawing tundra.  

What they really need to to do is recommission Rough (so there is a damping buffer on market prices), but no point making Keynesian spending commitments til after the correction


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 8, 2022)

magneze said:


> So, the "solution" is effectively a new Energy Tax? All this talk about cutting the "green levy" is actually hiding a massive new tax. Not hiding particularly well, mind.


and fracking of course


----------



## magneze (Sep 8, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> and fracking of course


So, a new Energy Tax and introducing earthquakes and flaming water taps. It's bold!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 8, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Rees Mogg as industrial and energy secretary.
> 
> 
> libera te tutemet ex infernis


Where we're going we won't need eyes to see 🤣


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 8, 2022)

I’m digging Ed milibands mullet here


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 8, 2022)

Slightly off topic, but look how this cunt of a columnist described the new cabinet.



> A long-standing daily newspaper columnist has been suspended after he described ethnic minority MPs promoted by new PM Liz Truss as “the coconut cabinet.”
> 
> Iain Macwhirter, political commentator with Scottish daily The Herald, has apologised for the use of the term in a Twitter thread about the fact that none of the great offices of state are held by white men.
> 
> The former BBC political correspondent has been told his column in the Newsquest-owned title has been suspended while they investigate the “offensive tweet.”











						Herald columnist suspended over 'coconut cabinet' jibe - Journalism News from HoldtheFrontPage
					

Journalist apologises for 'offensive tweet' about Truss appointments



					www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk


----------



## donkyboy (Sep 8, 2022)

In Lizz we *Trusst*

Get it. Trust. Trusst.

I'm the first to come out with this*.  

Pay homage.   *


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Slightly off topic, but look how this cunt of a columnist described the new cabinet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i woudn't be surprised if it's just another cokehead cabinet


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 8, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Day one of Truss, and Sky is reporting the polling average is - Con 31.1% / Lab 42%



Day 2 and those figures are now 30.7% and 42.3%


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 8, 2022)

Anecdote Warning:
My parents are dyed-in-the-wool Tory voters (don't ask) and think Truss is awful and her energy cap plans are crap too. So this may not go down well in the shires, along with the rest of the country.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 8, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> How much are people going to stand for?


The second half of my cost of living payment, for starters.

Come on Liz, you fucking tory, cough up


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 8, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Anecdote Warning:
> My parents are dyed-in-the-wool Tory voters (don't ask) and think Truss is awful and her energy cap plans are crap too. So this *may not go down well in the shires*, along with the rest of the country.


Unlike the temperatures come the winter


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 8, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> In Lizz we *Trusst*
> 
> Get it. Trust. Trusst.
> 
> ...


No you’re not


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Day 2 and those figures are now 30.7% and 42.42.3%


42.42.3? you sure about that?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 8, 2022)

Ohmygod she killed Queenie 😱😱😱


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 8, 2022)

*Caveats apply


----------



## 2hats (Sep 8, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> 42.42.3? you sure about that?


Priti Patel sure.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 8, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Ohmygod she killed Queenie 😱😱😱


she always was an anti monarchist...


----------



## contadino (Sep 8, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Ohmygod she killed Queenie 😱😱😱


The Tories are gonna love her. Toxic Truss: 5 minutes with her and Queenie keels over.


----------



## donkyboy (Sep 8, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> No you’re not


prove otherwise


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 8, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> prove otherwise








						‘In Liz we Truss’: UK gets first female Conservative foreign secretary | Liz Truss | The Guardian
					

Foreign secretary’s first international trip could be to New York next week for UN meeting




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## cesare (Sep 8, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I just heard rumour that the new Health Secretary is tipped to be the current work and pensions secretary Therse Coffey


I reckon she's just declared the Queen fit for work.


----------



## stavros (Sep 8, 2022)

Hearing her energy speech today made me realise that, when not extolling the virtues of pork markets, she has a very dreary, monotonous voice. That kind of thing is only useful were you to be lost in a department store.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 8, 2022)

stavros said:


> Hearing her energy speech today made me realise that, when not extolling the virtues of pork markets, she has a very dreary, monotonous voice. That kind of thing is only useful were you to be lost in a department store.


It's. Like. A. Full. Stop. After. Every. Word.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Sep 8, 2022)

If I was Truss I'd be rubbing my hands if Lizzy pops her clogs. For the next month + there'll be smoke barrage of media giving her time to work out her plan in a relaxed fashion.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 8, 2022)

DJWrongspeed said:


> If I was Truss I'd be rubbing my hands if Lizzy pops her clogs.


You might want to take a quick look at the news.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 8, 2022)

Truss wanted the monarchy to be abolished, I reckon she spiked the Queen's tea when they met yesterday.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 8, 2022)

They’re probably carting her off to the tower for high treason right now.

Poisoners of royalty are traditionally boiled in a cauldron before being gibbeted


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Sep 8, 2022)

.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 8, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> It could well be up. She wants the Queen abolished



Does she gave an alibi


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 8, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Truss wanted the monarchy to be abolished, I reckon she spiked the Queen's tea when they met yesterday.


Nonsense, she was simply in the area sightseeing around Cairngorms National Park, the second of two national parks established by the Scottish Parliament - after Loch Lomond and The Trossachs National Park - in 2002, and considered the largest national park in the United Kingdom 🤷


----------



## contadino (Sep 8, 2022)

Boris was in with QEII minutes before Truss. Both had means, motive and opportunity...


----------



## elbows (Sep 8, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Truss wanted the monarchy to be abolished, I reckon she spiked the Queen's tea when they met yesterday.


We import two thirds of our Polonium. This. Is. A. Disgrace.


----------



## Cerv (Sep 8, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Ohmygod she killed Queenie 😱😱😱


first time a Lib Dem in government has followed through on a campaign promise?


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 9, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Sep 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



hybrid bow/curtsey?
a burtsey or a cow?
very modern


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> hybrid bow/curtsey?
> a burtsey or a cow?
> very modern


I've just remembered that I'm not supposed to have posted that on this thread. I have been drinking tbf.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> I've just remembered that I'm not supposed to have posted that on this thread. I have been drinking tbf.


I've been driven to self-medication as well.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I've been driven to self-medication as well.


Oakham "Citra" 😎


----------



## brogdale (Sep 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Oakham "Citra" 😎


Creek cocktails here; Bishops alternating with 1698s


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> hybrid bow/curtsey?
> a burtsey or a cow?
> very modern


A shart.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 9, 2022)

If that had been Corbyn, the Sun would have had a full page photo disgusted at how disrespectful he was by making such a little curtsey, particularly with Her Majesty the Queen being dead so shortly aftwards.


----------



## elbows (Sep 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> If that had been Corbyn, the Sun would have had a full page photo disgusted at how disrespectful he was by making such a little curtsey, particularly with Her Majesty the Queen being dead so shortly aftwards.


Truss was in black so this was a post-death thing.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 9, 2022)

Even worse


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 9, 2022)

If I was the royal physician I'd be bringing a Geiger counter to the autopsy, that's all I'm saying.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> If that had been Corbyn, the Sun would have had a full page photo disgusted at how disrespectful he was by making such a little curtsey, particularly with Her Majesty the Queen being dead so shortly aftwards.


From today, just before or after his king's speech. Thought Mays curtsey was bad until Mary out done her.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If I was the royal physician I'd be bringing a Geiger counter to the autopsy, that's all I'm saying.


In a hazmat lead lined suit?


----------



## Raheem (Sep 9, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If I was the royal physician I'd be bringing a Geiger counter to the autopsy, that's all I'm saying.


Truss wouldn't be smart enough to use someone else's MO.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 9, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> In a hazmat lead lined suit?



Well yes, but that's for the acid blood which I'm sure he'll know all about already.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 9, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Truss wouldn't be smart enough to use someone else's MO.



The symbol for Polonium is Po, not Mo.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



🤣


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 10, 2022)




----------



## krink (Sep 11, 2022)

I don't know about sub/dom sexy stuff or embedding tweets but I hope this works as I can't handle being the only one who has read this..


----------



## Peter Painter (Sep 11, 2022)

.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 11, 2022)

Home Secretary off to a good start:









						Revealed: Suella Braverman sets Home Office ‘No boats crossing the Channel’ target
					

New home secretary upsets civil servants with speech on migrants, trashy TV and back-to-office call




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 11, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Home Secretary off to a good start:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah well she'll find out the same thing as Priti, there is a world of difference between banning something and actually stopping it.


----------



## gosub (Sep 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Ah well she'll find out the same thing as Priti, there is a world of difference between banning something and actually stopping it.


Depends how Cleverly they play things


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 11, 2022)

gosub said:


> Depends how Cleverly they play things


They can ban it tomorrow, but that doesn't change reality, the channel is only 20 miles, these people are desperate to get to the UK and don't want to stay in France. The French don't want them to stay in France and have zero reason to co-operate with the UK on making them. Even if Macron agrees with Truss to shut her up, Le Plod on the coast aren't going to bother that much.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> They can ban it tomorrow, but that doesn't change reality, the channel is only 20 miles, these people are desperate to get to the UK and don't want to stay in France. The French don't want them to stay in France and have zero reason to co-operate with the UK on making them. Even if Macron agrees with Truss to shut her up, Le Plod on the coast aren't going to bother that much.


I think you may have missed the Cleverly pun...but what you say is right.

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## gosub (Sep 11, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> I think you may have missed the Cleverly pun...but what you say is right.
> 
> Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


Tech and events have given rise to a number of things for discussion at UN level. Will be interesting how FC&DO plays things


----------



## gosub (Sep 11, 2022)

A note for PM Truss
					

True, Truss assumed power not through an election like her predecessor Boris Johnson, but she still has a good chance to stay at least until the 2025 election.




					www.thejakartapost.com


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 11, 2022)

Wasn't she or Quasi Quartpint going to announce more details of her spiffing plan to stop us all either freezing or owing our souls to the energy companies this week or has that been put on hold due to Brenda carking it?


----------



## quiet guy (Sep 11, 2022)

Yes she's had a repreave with Brenda carking it. Gives the two of them more time to colour in flesh out their plan.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Wasn't she or Quasi Quartpint going to announce more details of her spiffing plan to stop us all either freezing or owing our souls to the energy companies this week or has that been put on hold due to Brenda carking it?



She made her announcement in the commons just before you know what took over the news agenda completely.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 11, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> She made her announcement in the commons just before you know what took over the news agenda completely.


I know about that one but I was sure there was going to  be another this week which went into more detail and would cover her other barmy schemes like tax cuts.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 11, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I know about that one but I was sure there was going to  be another this week which went into more detail and would cover her other barmy schemes like tax cuts.



No that wasn't due this week, the fiscal announcement is/was due in a few weeks time.


----------



## contadino (Sep 11, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> She made her announcement in the commons just before you know what took over the news agenda completely.


The announcement was that she'd decided to underwrite the energy company profits using tax receipts, so very much the 'owing our souls to energy companies' option.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 15, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Sep 15, 2022)

teqniq said:


>



That's just perfect, all round.


----------



## muscovyduck (Sep 15, 2022)

Oh I forgot about Liz Truss


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## brogdale (Sep 15, 2022)

Most popular reply to that pic seems to be _Don't do spice!_


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 15, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> Oh I forgot about Liz Truss



You lucky fucker


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 15, 2022)

teqniq said:


>



And thats why you should never do spice


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 15, 2022)

Probably wishful thinking, but Liz Truss reminds me of those Prime Ministers you sort of forget about, a bit like Anthony Eden.


----------



## muscovyduck (Sep 15, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Probably wishful thinking, but Liz Truss reminds me of those Prime Ministers you sort of forget about, a bit like Anthony Eden.


I agree but I reckon it's a bad thing because the right are better positioned to take advantage of it than the rest of us


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 15, 2022)

At least Eden liked to party


----------



## a_chap (Sep 15, 2022)

I prefer this one...


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## two sheds (Sep 15, 2022)

Could do with some strings. The look on her face though  and his face for that matter.


----------



## Supine (Sep 15, 2022)




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## MickiQ (Sep 15, 2022)

Start as we mean to go on









						Kwasi Kwarteng considers scrapping bankers’ bonus cap to boost City
					

The new chancellor believes removing a cap on bankers' bonuses could boost growth in the City.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 17, 2022)

Liz Truss chief of staff helping the FBI with inquiries...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 17, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Probably wishful thinking, but Liz Truss reminds me of those Prime Ministers you sort of forget about, a bit like Anthony Eden.


Campbell bannerman


----------



## eatmorecheese (Sep 17, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Liz Truss chief of staff helping the FBI with inquiries...



This is exactly the sort of buccaneering piracy enterprise that Britain has excelled at for over 400 years


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Liz Truss chief of staff helping the FBI with inquiries...


Full article. He's done a deal with them to be a witness:



			archive.ph


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 17, 2022)

Karteng is a joyless dead eyed cunt


----------



## Supine (Sep 18, 2022)




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## brogdale (Sep 18, 2022)

The bilateral is moved to Wednesday on US soil, (when they’re at the UN). I reckon that says more about the likelihood that they know they’ll not be able to offer positive read-outs on agreement regarding NI and didn’t want any boat rocking before funeral day.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Karteng is a joyless dead eyed cunt



Kwarteng. But yes.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Liz Truss chief of staff helping the FBI with inquiries...



Paywall busted version here:

No 10 chief of staff in FBI inquiry over ‘election bribe’ in Puerto Rico


----------



## not a trot (Sep 18, 2022)

The last ever PM appointed by Brenda.  Every shitty move this government makes will be part of her legacy.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 19, 2022)

not a trot said:


> The last ever PM appointed by Brenda.  Every shitty move this government makes will be part of her legacy.



I think any half-arsed lawyer could get Brenda off on this one.

"Yes, I'd love to take up your palace equity release scheme, young lady... would you like a biscuit?"


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 19, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I think any half-arsed lawyer could get Brenda off on this one.
> 
> "Yes, I'd love to take up your palace equity release scheme, young lady... would you like a biscuit?"



Christ, imagine that was the last significant thing you did in your life.


----------



## a_chap (Sep 19, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Christ, imagine that was the last significant thing you did in your life.



I do indeed hope that is the last significant thing Truss does in her life.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 19, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Christ, imagine that was the last significant thing you did in your life.


Who are we feeling sorry for here?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Who are we feeling sorry for here?


Johnny vodka


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 19, 2022)

She killed the queen and you still don't know who she is?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 20, 2022)

Worst leader since Thatcher. What a vile, evil lump of shit.


----------



## Ming (Sep 20, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Worst leader since Thatcher. What a vile, evil lump of shit.



She’s bigging up trickle down economics. The Laffer curve that was pitched by being scribbled on the back of a cocktail napkin and has been throughly debunked.









						Liz Truss urges world leaders to follow UK with trickle down economics
					

Reports that stamp duty will be cut as PM uses speech to UN to argue for far-reaching tax reductions, putting her at odds with Joe Biden




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 21, 2022)

Post dead Lizzie, reality kicks in. Liz Truss is PM 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 21, 2022)

Ming said:


> She’s bigging up trickle down economics. The Laffer curve that was pitched by being scribbled on the back of a cocktail napkin and has been throughly debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



She wants to turn the whole damn world Tory.

Can we swap her for Joe Biden?


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 21, 2022)

Ming said:


> She’s bigging up trickle down economics. The Laffer curve that was pitched by being scribbled on the back of a cocktail napkin and has been throughly debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. She still thinks the UK is a major player on the international stage. Most Non-UK people I talk to think the UK is a joke.

Quotes from the Guardian story


> “Lower taxes lead to economic growth, *there is no doubt in my mind* about that.”


So she's not going to do any research then?



> The Times reported that Truss believes that cutting stamp duty – which raises about £12bn a year for the Treasury – would aid growth by encouraging more people to move.


If you want people to move more, fix the property laws in England and Wales to be more like Scotland's so people aren't fearful of an offer being withdrawn hours after spending £1000's preparing a move.

She's using a speech to the UN to wibble about a dated economic model, while parts of the world burn.

Stupidity, ignorance, malice or a combination of all 3?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 21, 2022)

"cut stamp duty would encourage people to move"


There. Are. No. Fucking. Houses.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 21, 2022)

Maybe Truss is secretly an accelerationist - everything she says and proposes seems designed to maximise rage and resistance. Honestly can't remember having such a deep and intense hatred for anybody.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 21, 2022)

Will even the barbarian shithole rags (the Scum, the Daily Sieg Heil etc.) be able to manufacture consent for this pound shop Pinochet? They managed it with the Cameron and Johnson cliques, so I guess it’s possible


----------



## a_chap (Sep 21, 2022)

I wonder what those "difficult decisions" will turn out to be.

NHS no longer free at the point of need? Cut benefits? Criminalise strike action? Disband legal aid entirely? etc. etc.


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 21, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Will even the barbarian shithole rags (the Scum, the Daily Sieg Heil etc.) be able to manufacture consent for this pound shop Pinochet? They managed it with the Cameron and Johnson cliques, so I guess it’s possible


I think The Express will try as they are totally divorced from reality. The Scum will follow what is popular and by Spring, I think they'll be calling for another Tory Leadership contest. 
As for the Mail, I'm not sure. But from their point of view Cameron was competent, Johnson popular and got Brexit done* There might have been someone called May in the middle of all that.

But for Truss, so far as well as fucking over the working class she's setting her sights on fucking over or at least pissing the lower middle classes too, with Fracking and climate denial or messing with the NHS; that's not going to go well. 

*This is not a Brexit / Remain argument or whether Brexit is done or not


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

The liberal left has convinced itself (mainly through the endless sharing of memes) that Truss is stupid/mad. Now, it appears likely that it will double down on the error by portraying her economic plan in the same terms.

This fatally misunderstanding what is going on. In economic terms, the Truss plan is simple: deliver growth over the next 18 months in advance of the next election. The Tories will understand that some of the traditional policy levers that a Government can pull to achieve growth - import controls, export growth, capital investment and household consumption - are not going to happen. Not in the next 18 months, and not with our disfigured economy developed in the 1980's and not with a cost of living crisis. This leaves one lever: Government spending to deliver consumption.

The tory/Truss plan is betting the UK Economy on this lever. It will though, in the short term, work (and remember Truss and Kwarteng are not thinking further ahead than 18 months). If the Tory plan is to borrow (and then 'spend') around £200-£250Bn then growth is almost inevitable as more money starts to circulate around the system. In fact, it would take a herculean effort for an economy not to grow with so much money pumped in to it.

The 'cultural re-set' demanded by the insurgent right and the sweeping away of regulation and the big state (tbf, I do accept that the Tories will struggle to convince the electorate that the only thing holding Rotherham back is the state, when in fact, its the only thing holding it together) will be explicitly presented, and consent sought, as necessary steps to ensure that growth is not impeded. Add in tax cuts and various other measures (already announced: tax cuts for home buyers, low tax zones, scrap obesity plans and 'woke' Civil Service schemes) and you can see how the Tories can win again in 2024.

Of course, at that point the money is going to need to be 'paid back' because the plan is deliberately calibrated to deliver short term confected growth built on a debt/QE/Gov bond bubble. But that's either a Starmer coalition problem or one to be solved by pulling the austerity lever.

The liberal left celebrated the demise of Johnson as 'the worst PM ever, only to find itself confronted two months later by the new 'worst PM ever'. Any successful resistance or challenge isn't going to come from miles off reductive portrayal's of her as thick or out of her depth. It can only be built on an understanding of what is going on and the inevitable consequences of it.

ETA: Here is the sound of the penny dropping: Ever bold, always cocky and never a mission accomplished: this will be the tale of PM Truss | Rafael Behr


----------



## ska invita (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> If the Tory plan is to borrow (and then 'spend') around £200-£250Bn


Other than the plan to give public money to energy companies I haven't heard any mention of a borrow and spend plan, the opposite. Have you heard different?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Other than the plan to give public money to energy companies I haven't heard any mention of a borrow and spend plan, the opposite. Have you heard different?


 
Spend was in inverted commas. The 'spending' will be on energy bills, tax cuts, reversal of NI increase, low tax zones and I would expect a few other 'goodies'


----------



## two sheds (Sep 21, 2022)

Weren't the illiberal left even just a tiny bit pleased to see Johnson go?


----------



## gosub (Sep 21, 2022)

a_chap said:


> I wonder what those "difficult decisions" will turn out to be.
> 
> NHS no longer free at the point of need? Cut benefits? Criminalise strike action? Disband legal aid entirely? etc. etc.


what to wear to the coranation!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Weren't the illiberal left even just a tiny bit pleased to see Johnson go?



This debate was had at the time. I was attacked for pointing out that whilst Johnson was a cunt that his replacement would also be one and therefore there was nothing to celebrate. In reply posters claimed that in places workers apparently broke out into spontaneous cheering upon hearing the news etc and that I was out of order moaning about the workers having a moment of light relief.

Whatever the rights and wrongs, I think we can agree the workers won't be cheering now.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 21, 2022)

“Can’t get rid of a cunt because he’ll be replaced by a cunt” is no excuse for not getting rid of a cunt.

Just keep scrapping cunts till we get someone who isn’t a cunt. The fight doesn’t end.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> illiberal left


.
The Lexiteers, or National "Socialists", are no different than liberals in so far as both go fishing for votes among working people and both have no intention of getting rid of private property.
Please note that the term "left" as used nowadays in the anglophone media has nothing to do with the original meaning in the sense of Robespierre or Marx. It's used in the way the Alt-Right and Trump use it, though one could argue that when used with term "liberal" it is sticking to its 18th century meaning of getting rid of the monarchy which was then, indeed, radical.


----------



## maomao (Sep 21, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> “Can’t get rid of a cunt because he’ll be replaced by a cunt” is no excuse for not getting rid of a cunt.
> 
> Just keep scrapping cunts till we get someone who isn’t a cunt. The fight doesn’t end.


They last a couple of years on average. Scrapping them does nothing to diminish the supply of fresh ones.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> They last a couple of years on average. Scrapping them does nothing to diminish the supply of fresh ones.




Still not an excuse to not give the current one as hard a time as possible and cheer when they go 

Perfect is the enemy of good


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2022)

a_chap said:


> I wonder what those "difficult decisions" will turn out to be.
> 
> NHS no longer free at the point of need? Cut benefits? Criminalise strike action? Disband legal aid entirely? etc. etc.


NHS definitely; Radio 4's Today programme was pushing the need for a move to an insurance based scheme with unequal access this morning.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

If there is a lack of consensus within the ruling class, the UK will be living in interesting times.
I'm thinking of the new monarch and how he will perform and with what discretion.
Off the back of my head, I can think of two monarchies destroyed (unintentionally) by the far-right, Italy and Greece, and the present batch of Tories are quite far over there on the right.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2022)

SysOut said:


> .
> The Lexiteers, or National "Socialists", are no different than liberals in so far as both go fishing for votes among working people and both have no intention of getting rid of private property.
> Please note that the term "left" as used nowadays in the anglophone media has nothing to do with the original meaning in the sense of Robespierre or Marx. It's used in the way the Alt-Right and Trump use it, though one could argue that when used with term "liberal" it is sticking to its 18th century meaning of getting rid of the monarchy which was then, indeed, radical.


Cut out the National Socialists crap; the inverted commas don't  excuse you.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 21, 2022)

When even the US president is making noises about trickle down not working then fucking hell is Liz smoking the strong stuff.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Cut out the National Socialists crap; the inverted commas don't  excuse you.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


Then you don't understand socialism, hence the inverted commas.
We'll leave it at that. The UK has never had any viable leftism.
It's just been that Bernard Cribbins guy in the bowler hat, criticising the worker digging the hole; "you're digging it round, but it ought to be square."
But who got the hole dug?


----------



## gosub (Sep 21, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> When even the US president is making noises about trickle down not working then fucking hell is Liz smoking the strong stuff.



What isn't working are Biden's ideas that the US isn't in recession and that inflation isn't a problem.   


Fed doesn't have to listen to Biden same as MPC doesn't have to listen to Truss and there will be more rate rises this week.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> This debate was had at the time. I was attacked for pointing out that whilst Johnson was a cunt that his replacement would also be one and therefore there was nothing to celebrate. In reply posters claimed that in places workers apparently broke out into spontaneous cheering upon hearing the news etc and that I was out of order moaning about the workers having a moment of light relief.
> 
> Whatever the rights and wrongs, I think we can agree the workers won't be cheering now.


The problem I have with the illiberal left is that, while they generally have the best political analysis, they're so sneery. You could have said "It's a mistake to ..." rather than "The liberal left ...". I'd guess that a large part of the attacks you got were because of that. Sneering isn't the best way to persuade someone you're correct - particularly if you're sneering at people who basically agree with your political analysis.  

And it does come across as a bit killjoy-like to stop people celebrating. What's wrong with celebrating for that brief time and briefly postponing the awareness that the next one's just as bad or worse? The left seems to have little to celebrate as it is.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 21, 2022)

SysOut said:


> .
> The Lexiteers, or National "Socialists", are no different than liberals in so far as both go fishing for votes among working people and both have no intention of getting rid of private property.
> Please note that the term "left" as used nowadays in the anglophone media has nothing to do with the original meaning in the sense of Robespierre or Marx. It's used in the way the Alt-Right and Trump use it, though one could argue that when used with term "liberal" it is sticking to its 18th century meaning of getting rid of the monarchy which was then, indeed, radical.


How would you go about getting rid of private property?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> The problem I have with the illiberal left is that, while they generally have the best political analysis, they're so sneery. You could have said "It's a mistake to ..." rather than "The liberal left ...". I'd guess that a large part of the attacks you got were because of that. Sneering isn't the best way to persuade someone you're correct - particularly if you're sneering at people who basically agree with your political analysis.
> 
> And it does come across as a bit killjoy-like to stop people celebrating. What's wrong with celebrating for that brief time and briefly postponing the awareness that the next one's just as bad or worse? The left seems to have little to celebrate as it is.



It's not sneering. Liberal left discourse (and by that I mean social media but also when you talk to some of them) is _saturated _with a) their sense of their own superiority and b) the ridiculous (and disorientating) suggestion that someone who has risen to the top of the tory party is stupid. Perhaps that fatal combination of overestimating yourself and underestimating (or mischaracterizing) the opposition is  one of the reasons that there is nothing to celebrate or to work with and build on?


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 21, 2022)

Surely the idea that the billions they will spend fuelling growth depends on where that money goes. If it just ends up in tax havens and the bank accounts of oil barons it won't because the rich don't spend in the economy as the rest of us would (have to).


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 21, 2022)

The EU executive plans to raise about €140bn (£121bn) by imposing windfall taxes on energy companies’ “abnormally high profits” and redirecting proceeds to households and businesses struggling with soaring bills.









						EU expects to raise €140bn from windfall tax on energy firms
					

Cap on outsize revenues will bring solidarity from businesses towards struggling customers, says official




					www.theguardian.com
				




Meanwhile, the Neo-Thatcherite shithole that is the UK will funnel £150bn of public money into the offshore accounts of those companies!


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I was attacked for pointing out that whilst Johnson was a cunt that his replacement would also be one


Everyone agreed his replacement would be a cunt (I mean of course they would, they're all Tories ffs). From memory the main issue was that you kept calling people idiots for celebrating Johnson's discomfort.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Everyone agreed his replacement would be a cunt, from memory the main issue was that you kept calling people idiots for celebrating Johnson's discomfort.



I hoped for an extended period of Johnson's discomfort. Was it you who reported the cheering workers?


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Was it you who reported the cheering workers?


Eh?


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> How would you go about getting rid of private property?


  When one has the power to do so, thus clearly after some sort of revolution in which a disciplined, well organised socialist group grabbed the power. 
  At the moment, no such thing exists, even though the circumstances are moving, once again, towards instability and hence, feasibly, revolution. The conflict is between rulers, of course, nationally and internationally: the two parts of the right, liberals and conservatives (like in Russia 1917) and internationally the USA and those who still refuse to submit to it.
  We must not be fooled by the term "anti-capitalist". Capitalism can be seen as the liberal economy as opposed to the land-owning conservative economy. Mobile wealth versus immobile wealth. (as one popular french historian put it).


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> It's not sneering. Liberal left discourse (and by that I mean social media but also when you talk to some of them) is _saturated _with a) their sense of their own superiority


Phew, good thing there are no Only Worker in the Village types who do the same thing


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The tory/Truss plan is betting the UK Economy on this lever. It will though, in the short term, work (and remember Truss and Kwarteng are not thinking further ahead than 18 months). If the Tory plan is to borrow (and then 'spend') around £200-£250Bn then growth is almost inevitable as more money starts to circulate around the system. In fact, it would take a herculean effort for an economy not to grow with so much money pumped in to it.



I dont agree. The recession is considered to be pretty much unavoidable.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 21, 2022)




----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> Only Worker in the Village


An interesting economy.
Everyone self-employed, or millionaires-in-waiting.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 21, 2022)

a_chap said:


> I wonder what those "difficult decisions" will turn out to be.
> 
> NHS no longer free at the point of need? Cut benefits? Criminalise strike action? Disband legal aid entirely? etc. etc.


Legal aid, there'll be less of a kick off with it. I know from experience that you only really think about it when you need it.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

elbows said:


> I dont agree. The recession is considered to be pretty much unavoidable.



Don’t agree with what?


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Don’t agree with what?



Your 'growth is almost inevitable' stuff.


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

The money the idiot Truss* is borrowing will go to subsidise power company profits.  She hasn’t said she’ll do any actual investment has she? Beyond stuff that’s vaguely supportive of levelling up.  Growth is a long way from inevitable, indeed the opposite is far more likely.  


* it is perfectly possible to be a fucking idiot and a vicious piece of shit.  God knows why anyone would argue differently


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

elbows said:


> Your 'growth is almost inevitable' stuff.



Care to explain why or is it one line posts day?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> The money the idiot Truss* is borrowing will go to subsidise power company profits.  She hasn’t said she’ll do any actual investment has she? Beyond stuff that’s vaguely supportive of levelling up.  Growth is a long way from inevitable, indeed the opposite is far more likely.
> 
> 
> * it is perfectly possible to be a fucking idiot and a vicious piece of shit.  God knows why anyone would argue differently



The current growth forecast is based on expected energy costs before the government announcement capping the costs. Therefore most households will now have ‘more money’ than was previously expected. If they spend only some of that it is more than expected by the forecast. That means more consumptive growth than expected overall.

The risk for Truss is the cost of borrowing. Who they give the money to is irrelevant for the purpose of measuring growth.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 21, 2022)

Won't a lot of those just not go into debt as much as they would have done? So still be limited to spending what they need?


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The current growth forecast is based on expected energy costs before the government announcement capping the costs. Therefore most households will now have ‘more money’ than was previously expected. If they spend only some of that it is more than expected by the forecast. That means more consumptive growth than expected overall.
> 
> The risk for Truss is the cost of borrowing. Who they give the money to is irrelevant for the purpose of measuring growth.


Bollocks.  The ‘cap’ is still vastly higher than a year ago.  Inflation will still be sky high and outstripping pay rises (probably).  The tax cuts give the lowest paid 63p a month.  Thus there’ll be barely any growth from consumption, far more likely to be the exact opposite.  And who they give the dish to is 100% central to determining whether there is growth.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Won't a lot of those just not go into debt as much as they would have done? So still be limited to spending what they need?



Yes, in some cases but not all. We’d know more about the precise numbers if the OBR had been asked to produce a forecast - but they haven’t.


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Won't a lot of those just not go into debt as much as they would have done? So still be limited to spending what they need?


Yes, he’s talking nonsense.  I think the only economist who agrees with him is Patrick Minford.


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Care to explain why or is it one line posts day?



Its hard to find anyone other than you that is predicting growth. Are you really claiming we are going to avoid recession?

Consumer spending already fell more than expected in August.

People were already squeezed by earlier energy price rises, and the Truss stuff doesnt reverse those.

The effect of interest rate rises need to be considered. 

Sterling versus the dollar tells its own story.

There are increasing concerns that there will be a global recession. Bad news for most countries, and for a whole bunch of reasons the UK is more exposed than others to various negative forces these days.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Then you don't understand socialism, hence the inverted commas.
> We'll leave it at that. The UK has never had any viable leftism.
> It's just been that Bernard Cribbins guy in the bowler hat, criticising the worker digging the hole; "you're digging it round, but it ought to be square."
> But who got the hole dug?


The UK may be lacking in 'viable leftism' but apparently is awash with hyperbole, arrogance and lack of self awareness. Keep up the good work!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> Bollocks.  The ‘cap’ is still vastly higher than a year ago.  Inflation will still be sky high and outstripping pay rises (probably).  The tax cuts give the lowest paid 63p a month.  Thus there’ll be barely any growth from consumption, far more likely to be the exact opposite.  And who they give the dish to is 100% central to determining whether there is growth.



Where the cap is compared to where it was is already factored in to forecasts. As I said above, if the average household spending was forecast to be, say, 30% on energy then that spending will now be offset by the government paying roughly half of it. If only some of the money that would have been spent on energy is now spent on other stuff it produces higher growth than forecast. 

So, yes bollocks: but spouted by you.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

elbows said:


> Its hard to find anyone other than you that is predicting growth. Are you really claiming we are going to avoid recession?
> 
> Consumer spending already fell more than expected in August.
> 
> ...



The sterling fall to the lowest rate for 30 odd years is the risk to growth: if the market does not buy the Truss plan and the cost of borrowing goes up then, yes, all bets are off. You are also right that the neo-liberal chicken is coming home to roost in the UK as the chart below indicates. But, the fact remains that Truss is offsetting money that households would have been forecast to have to find. More money in the system - despite the issues you identify - almost (in the short term) produces growth and the sums here are staggering.


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

Where the cap is compared to where it was is already factored in to forecasts. As I said above, if the average household spending was forecast to be, say, 30% on energy then that spending will now be offset by the government paying roughly half of it. If only some of the money that would have been spent on energy is now spent on other stuff it produces higher growth than forecast.


Smokeandsteam said:


> So, yes bollocks: but spouted by you.


No, that amounts to a smaller recession, not growth.  Any economic boost from lowered taxes might kick in in eighteen months, ie just in time for the next election. You have it completely arse about face.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 21, 2022)

The only growth that tax cuts & corporate welfare for the rich will create is more asset price inflation. The huge cut to the personal disposable income of the majority caused by hiked energy costs & real-terms wage cuts will almost certainly lead to recession. Add in the impacts of rising interest rates and bond yields and the falling pound and we're really up shit creek. Truss's blind, ignorant faith makes blustercunt's boosterism look like pessimism by comparison.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> No, that amounts to a smaller recession, not growth.  Any economic boost from lowered taxes might kick in in eighteen months, ie just in time for the next election. You have it completely arse about face.



Time will tell Belboid. But, I expect weak, anaemic growth which will be heralded by the press as evidence that Truss-enomics are working and that the Tories need 5 more years to fully deliver the recovery etc. 

The cost will be the highest amount of borrowing since 1940s and the other indicators of real growth - exports/imports balance, investment, increased economic activity in the real economy - will remain dead.


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Time will tell Belboid. But, I expect weak, anaemic growth which will be heralded by the press as evidence that Truss-enomics are working and that the Tories need 5 more years to fully deliver the recovery etc.
> 
> The cost will be the highest amount of borrowing since 1940s and the other indicators of real growth - exports/imports balance, investment, increased economic activity in the real economy - will remain dead.


Well that’s quite the climb down from your original claim and the second para pretty much contradicts the first.  But hey ho, let’s see


----------



## brogdale (Sep 21, 2022)

#CostOfLizingCrisis


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> Well that’s quite the climb down from your original claim and the second para pretty much contradicts the first.  But hey ho, let’s see



No it’s not. It’s exactly the same as what I said: record levels of borrowing will almost inevitably produce short term growth. The longer term consequences of doing so are dire.


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

Dude, your posts still up there for everyone to read.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> Dude, your posts still up there for everyone to read.



It is. Dude.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 21, 2022)

For me it was this bit that seemed way off beam:



> The tory/Truss plan is betting the UK Economy on this lever. It will though, in the short term, work (and remember Truss and Kwarteng are not thinking further ahead than 18 months).* If the Tory plan is to borrow (and then 'spend') around £200-£250Bn then growth is almost inevitable as more money starts to circulate around the system.* In fact, it would take a herculean effort for an economy not to grow with so much money pumped in to it.



The tax cuts and corporate welfare for the rich will never enter the system, let alone circulate. The unearned incomes that result will be squirrelled away in our country's tax havens.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> For me it was this bit that seemed way off beam:
> 
> 
> 
> The tax cuts and corporate welfare for the rich will never enter the system, let alone circulate. The unearned incomes that result will be squirrelled away in our country's tax havens.



That money was always going to the energy producers and therefore to tax havens. However, the government is now borrowing to pick up £100bn of that tab rather than us (for now at least) and their bet is that money that would otherwise have gone to the energy producers plus tax cuts will now circulate in the economy instead as people spend some of it. Increased household consumption is therefore likely to be higher than forecast.

If we understand growth as Consumption+ Government Spending + Investment + (exports minus imports) and the first of these suddenly has £100bn less extracted by energy prices then you can see why short term growth (with all of the caveats and dangers created) is a reasonable assumption. 

The problems this stores up, the fact that most people will still be worse off and the fact that record levels of borrowing are likely to have seismic consequences are not in dispute


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> That money was always going to the energy producers and therefore to tax havens. However, the government is now borrowing to pick up £100bn of that tab rather than us (for now at least)



The bit in parenthesis is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> The UK may be lacking in 'viable leftism' but apparently is awash with hyperbole, arrogance and lack of self awareness. Keep up the good work!
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


In what way is there hyperbole and arrogance?
I've tried to be objective.
I see no evidence of you doing the same.
You seem to be reacting rather than considering.
E.g your reaction to the words _National "Socialism" _

Have you considered why the Nazis called themselves that?

Lexiteers, if you have been following their arguments, have accused the EU of being capitalists. The UK isn't?

*question*: Then what's the difference?
*lexiteers*: "In Brexit UK _we_'d be the boss".

Then why didn't we have "socialism" before we went into the EU?
I put socialism in inverted commas for excellent reasons.
Didn't you know that Blair is a socialist?
He has said so several times and each time the audience laughed, including at a conference of the International Socialists.
It is _normal_ for socialdemocratic parties to be called socialist.
It is often there right in the name Socialist Party
George Galloway now claims to be a Marxist-Leninist!

Yoiu have to define your terms, becuase the terms are deliberately misused.
E.g. communism.
The USSR wasa socialist country.
It was not a communist country.
One could argue that "communist country" is an oxymoron.


Are the Lexiteers nationalist? Yes.
Are they socialist? No.

What's the problem?

Prior to getting into government, Blairism was described, by supporters, here on the web as being national and socialists.
It was also described as the "Third Way" - the term used, among other terms, by Mussolini to describe his political philosophy.

Some people say that the USSR was not democratic, whereas the west is democratic.
In fact, on a daily basis, the USSR was democratic whereas we experience fascism on a daily basis.

The USSR had workers councils in which the workers would discuss the problems and ideas and then vote on them.
In the west, the boss is the boss - the work place is private property.
Indeed, in a monarchy, the country is private property.

Lee Harvey Oswald said the thing that annoyed him when working in the USSR was the workers councils becuase he, as an "american" worker liked to go home as quick as possible when the work was finished....

Sorry that inverted commas annoy. You think, no doubt, that it is arrogance.
It could, of course, be just pointing that words are deliberatly used with different meanings.
Above, Oswald was not referring to Argentinian or Canadian workers....
The importance of the media in control the narrative and the meaning and associations of words.
News is not meant to inform you, but to form opinions.

So we must be clear about how we use words, and not sink into "you know what I mean" or that the dictionaries define words.

Workers have a special significance in socialism because of their significance in the economy of creating wealth.

Nothing has changed there but the older, formerly advanced, nations have changed.
The UK is not the workshop of the world. Indeed it started declining as soon as the US, Germany and others became industry developed.

The working population of the UK (and elsewhere) is much more vulnerable.
Blair said it is a service economy. A vague term. Others talk about a "post industrial" economy - which is not correct. It is is simply an economy which is not dominated by industrial output. There are countries which never had a dominantly industrial economy, but are rich and developed for other reasons, e.g. oil.

The working population is becoming one of office workers and servants.

IBM in the late 1970s had an advertisment (at least in Germany) which said that at least one job will not be replaced by computers - that of a cook in the canteen kitchen.

Well... in any case the future does not look good in a non-socialist society.

One of the key points of socialism was rational production - not duplication or built in obsolescence - and automation.
In the USSR the working hours steadily decreased.
Production was important, but not profitability because there were no shareholders awaiting their dividends.
Here another word needs to be defined "efficiency": in the west it means cutting costs to increase profits for the shareholders - this includes exporting the costs into society.
In socialism, "efficiency" would mean eliminating material waste and shortening the worklng hours for the workers.

It is other who seems to be arrogant and lack safe awareness.
Who like throwing stones.
Who don't seem to care.
Professor Pangloss's
Just internet chat, right? 
As Chomsky points out. 
It causes impotence because it works as a psychotherapy.
(Not his words and I don't agree with his aims, which are not to empower, but also to act as psychotherapy)

At least Bernard Cribben's guy in the bowler hat seemed to be offering constructive criticism.

Cheers - SysOut


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2022)

SysOut said:


> In what way is there hyperbole and arrogance?
> I've tried to be objective.
> I see no evidence of you doing the same.
> You seem to be reacting rather than considering.
> ...


You’re off your head


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> No it’s not. It’s exactly the same as what I said: record levels of borrowing will almost inevitably produce short term growth. The longer term consequences of doing so are dire.


How will they provide growth when forecasts have said the tax cuts will only benefit the people who spend in the economy by less than £1 a week (or even month, i don't recall)


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The sterling fall to the lowest rate for 30 odd years is the risk to growth: if the market does not buy the Truss plan and the cost of borrowing goes up then, yes, all bets are off. You are also right that the neo-liberal chicken is coming home to roost in the UK as the chart below indicates. But, the fact remains that Truss is offsetting money that households would have been forecast to have to find. More money in the system - despite the issues you identify - almost (in the short term) produces growth and the sums here are staggering.




It's a pity that firms and households have been lumped together.
I don't think the electricity companies do that.
Since this money goes to the electricity companies, is there any accompanying legislation to ensure that it is used as intended?


----------



## 8ball (Sep 21, 2022)

Ming said:


> She’s bigging up trickle down economics. The Laffer curve that was pitched by being scribbled on the back of a cocktail napkin and has been throughly debunked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, what in particular has been debunked?


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> You’re off your head


Drive by shooting.
Really impressed.

E2A Under the circumstances, I should regard the remark as a great compliment. 🤣


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Sorry, what in particular has been debunked?


Let me google that for you:








						A huge study of 20 years of global wealth demolishes the myth of 'trickle-down' and shows the rich are taking most of the gains for themselves
					

The bottom 50% of the world holds 2% of wealth, while the top 10% holds 76%, according to a huge data set that leading economists compiled for years.




					www.businessinsider.com
				







__





						Loading…
					





					www.washingtonpost.com
				







__





						What Is Trickle-Down Economics & Why It Doesn’t Work – ETHICAL UNICORN
					






					ethicalunicorn.com
				











						Trickle-down economics - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				











						Trickle-Down Economics: Four Reasons Why It Just Doesn't Work
					

We've all heard the claims that cutting tax rates for the richest Americans will improve the standard of living for the working class. Supposedly, top-bracket tax breaks will result in more jobs being created, higher wages for the average worker, and an overall upturn in our economy. It's at the...




					www.faireconomy.org
				




These are first 5 results.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 21, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Let me google that for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see I’m going to have to re-explain the question really slowly but am just popping out.  
Maybe later..


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> I see I’m going to have to re-explain the question really slowly but am just popping out.
> Maybe later..


There is no need to re-explain the question really slowly. It's just that my powers of telepathy are a bit below par today so perhaps have a less generic question if you want a less generic response.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 21, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> There is no need to re-explain the question really slowly. It's just that my powers of telepathy are a bit below par today so perhaps have a less generic question if you want a less generic response.



Sorry, that was a really irritable response from me.  

It was claimed the Laffer curve had been debunked, whereas your response referred to trickle-down economics.

The Laffer Curve has been used in a simplistic manner to justify tax cuts for the rich, often in the framework of trickle-down economics, but they are not synonymous.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2022)

SysOut said:


> In what way is there hyperbole and arrogance?
> I've tried to be objective.
> I see no evidence of you doing the same.
> You seem to be reacting rather than considering.
> ...


When I said keep up the good work I didn't think you'd try so hard, so soon, to such effect. 

Thanks to whoever created the ignore function - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Sorry, that was a really irritable response from me.
> 
> It was claimed the Laffer curve had been debunked, whereas your response referred to trickle-down economics.
> 
> The Laffer Curve has been used in a simplistic manner to justify tax cuts for the rich, often in the framework of trickle-down economics, but they are not synonymous.


Fair Enough. There are critiques of the Laffer curve, but not the pages and pages of calling it out, as there are for Trickle Down Economics.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Thanks to whoever created the ignore function - Louis MacNeice


Unfortunately you don't use it often enough.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 21, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Increased household consumption is therefore likely to be higher than forecast.


Here’s where we disagree; a less severe reduction in pdi/household consumption does not = increased consumption, it merely means a reduced decrease.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 21, 2022)

Or, put another way..._You can't spend what you ain't got...

_


----------



## brogdale (Sep 21, 2022)

Trickle down as Levelling Up.

She might be a genius.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 21, 2022)

Black is the new white eh?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 21, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Black is the new white eh?


That is so cynical. the trouble with _people like you _who hate their own country is that you're always talking down our marvellous achievements. I bet you weren't in the queue!


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Black is the new white eh?



Down is the new up.


----------



## gosub (Sep 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> That is so cynical. the trouble with _people like you _who hate their own country is that you're always talking down our marvellous achievements. I bet you weren't in the queue!


 why bother queuing when Phillip Scofield is there to show you what the coffin looks like (and if you're lucky pay your energy bills)


----------



## 8ball (Sep 21, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Fair Enough. There are critiques of the Laffer curve, but not the pages and pages of calling it out, as there are for Trickle Down Economics.



Even the word “trickle” is pretty much insulting.  “Ooh, we spilt a teeny bit, lick it up if you like, little doggy”.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Even the word “trickle” is pretty much insulting.  “Ooh, we spilt a teeny bit, lick it up if you like, little doggy”.


Piss trickles down, money less so


----------



## Ming (Sep 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Sorry, what in particular has been debunked?


The Laffer curve and trickle down economics. The idea that by cutting taxes you increase the incentive for economic activity and therefore tax returns. It doesn’t go back to the economy. It gets offshored.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)




----------



## SysOut (Sep 21, 2022)




----------



## Ming (Sep 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Sorry, what in particular has been debunked?


----------



## elbows (Sep 22, 2022)

One of the only ideological concessions I saw appear in the press in the wake of the financial crisis was that trickle down was discredited and dead.

Indeed we are far into an era where even the likes of the IMF developed new 'enlightened' rhetoric which rubbished that shit. eg:



> In a 2015 assessment, the International Monetary Fund rubbished trickle down and said governments should instead focus on policies that would directly help those on low and middle incomes.
> 
> “We find that increasing the income share of the poor and the middle class actually increases growth while a rising income share of the Top 20% results in lower growth – that is, when the rich get richer, benefits do not trickle down,” the IMF said. “This suggests that policies need to be country specific but should focus on raising the income share of the poor, and ensuring there is no hollowing out of the middle class.”



That quote is from Liz Truss favours trickle down economics but results can be trickle up


----------



## 8ball (Sep 22, 2022)

Ming said:


> The Laffer curve and trickle down economics. The idea that by cutting taxes you increase the incentive for economic activity and therefore tax returns. It doesn’t go back to the economy. It gets offshored.



I think you’ve conflated a few things in this and other posts.  Nevertheless, yes, trickle-down economics is the kind of scam so transparent that only those who stand to gain massively from it can say the term with a straight face.


----------



## Ming (Sep 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> I think you’ve conflated a few things in this and other posts.  Nevertheless, yes, trickle-down economics is the kind of scam so transparent that only those who stand to gain massively from it can say the term with a straight face.


Which bits?


----------



## 8ball (Sep 22, 2022)

Ming said:


> Which bits?











						Laffer curve - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Ming (Sep 22, 2022)

8ball said:


> Laffer curve - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah. It doesn’t work other than as a justification for anti tax legislation and redistribution of wealth upwards.  You ever heard of tax freedom day? My initial academic disciplinary training was in accountancy and finance BTW.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 22, 2022)

Ming said:


> Yeah. It doesn’t work other than as a justification for anti tax legislation and redistribution of wealth upwards.  You ever heard of tax freedom day? My initial academic disciplinary training was in accountancy and finance BTW.



It can and has been used to justify why tax rates should be higher.  Agree that it’s mostly a clumsy derivation that lends itself to being used to “explain” why lower taxes can lead to higher Government revenue.

Then tends to be adopted by parties that really don’t give a shit about increasing government revenue tbf.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 22, 2022)

Capital not buying the Truss story...


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 22, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Capital not buying the Truss story...



'The party of business'


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 22, 2022)

"You cannot rely on a heartless government having a change of heart, but concerted action by the public can force a change of mind – and a national campaign to change policy is the only choice. With a cold winter fast approaching, the time for action is now. The coming war must be against poverty, not against the poor."

This is from Gordon Brown, writing in the Guardian. That's how grave the situation is now.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 22, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> When even the US president is making noises about trickle down not working then fucking hell is Liz smoking the strong stuff.


It's a good tweet but hollow coming from the senator from Delaware who was VP under Obama.


----------



## steeplejack (Sep 22, 2022)

zombie Thatcherism will make for a coming winter of discontent that will make 78/79 look like a boring 50s weekend in Godalming.


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 22, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> zombie Thatcherism will make for a coming winter of discontent that will make 78/79 look like a boring 50s weekend in Godalming.


I hope but do not expect.
The French might have another crack at it though


----------



## elbows (Sep 22, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> I hope but do not expect.
> The French might have another crack at it though



Unless there is a big turnaround in getting their nuclear reactors online, France is going to be in deep shit unless the winter is exceptionally mild.

eg: Bloomberg - Are you a robot?



> In the European energy crisis, all of the attention is focused on Germany and gas from Russia. But France and its fleet of struggling nuclear reactors are at least as important. Indeed, the first European city to suffer a blackout as temperatures drop toward the end of the year may well be Paris rather than Berlin.



Not that UK security of sufficient energy supply this winter is assured either. Truss was a fuckwit for promising not to ask us to ration energy.


----------



## elbows (Sep 23, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The sterling fall to the lowest rate for 30 odd years is the risk to growth: if the market does not buy the Truss plan and the cost of borrowing goes up then, yes, all bets are off. You are also right that the neo-liberal chicken is coming home to roost in the UK as the chart below indicates. But, the fact remains that Truss is offsetting money that households would have been forecast to have to find. More money in the system - despite the issues you identify - almost (in the short term) produces growth and the sums here are staggering.



Since part of my argument with you the other day about this stuff involved me saying that I hadnt seen any pundits etc claiming that these policies would actually lead to growth, I now wish to acknowledge that some commentators are now hedging their bets by raising the alternative spectre of a return to boom and bust. eg this from the 12:52 entry on the BBC live updates page, by economics editor Faisal Islam:



> There are considerable risks in this plan, but the government has thrown the kitchen sink at it. It should help growth upfront.
> 
> But the echoes of the last Budget of this size in 1972, which led to an infamous period of boom and bust under chancellor Anthony Barber, will not be comfortable.





			https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-62994747


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 23, 2022)

elbows said:


> Since part of my argument with you the other day about this stuff involved me saying that I hadnt seen any pundits etc claiming that these policies would actually lead to growth, I now wish to acknowledge that some commentators are now hedging their bets by raising the alternative spectre of a return to boom and bust. eg this from the 12:52 entry on the BBC live updates page, by economics editor Faisal Islam:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes. NIESR is predicting 2% growth. It’s also said a) it’s confected and unsustainable and b) will pose longer term structural problems for the economy;






						An Independent Assessment of the Mini-Budget - NIESR
					

The 2022 mini budget marks a significant fiscal event. Announced by the Chancellor, it was published against a background of high inflation and recession.




					www.niesr.ac.uk
				




Meanwhile the market - the Tories allies and presumably who the budget statement is meant to engage have also passed comment:


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 23, 2022)

I read today that Truss is looking to move the British Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. That seems unwise and unnecessary.


----------



## elbows (Sep 23, 2022)

Can we rebrand her Liz Trump?


----------



## Serene (Sep 23, 2022)

Truss will have spent the time, since she became PM, asking her cabinet if anyone has any ideas on how to fix anything. No doubt then followed by long, long hours of unbroken silence.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 23, 2022)

Serene said:


> Truss will have spent the time, since she became PM, asking her cabinet if anyone has any ideas on how to fix anything.



Lel she won't be having a discussion she'll be leading a choir of "lower taxes = growth" while the heads nod on.

Theres no discussion or back and forth or ideas.


----------



## Serene (Sep 23, 2022)

To truss someone means to tie them up very tightly so that they cannot move. *Truss up* means the same as truss. If you truss a bird such as a chicken, you prepare it for cooking by tying its legs and wings. Truss up means the same as truss.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 23, 2022)

The barbaric Truss clique are so far to the right, so extreme, that even the grandees of the Revisionist Blairite project are leaning into left populist rhetoric now. The overton window has again shifted to the right.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 23, 2022)

Never before have I wanted to see a face repeatedly pummelled (applies to either of these shit heads)


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 23, 2022)

Serene said:


> Truss will have spent the time, since she became PM, asking her cabinet if anyone has any ideas on how to fix anything. No doubt then followed by long, long hours of unbroken silence.


If only they had the sense to recognize they had nothing worthwhile to contribute. It's a nice thought that the cabinet were silent, cowed, and cognizant of running out of road, but I expect their first meeting was more a cuntish cacophony of excitement as the gloves came off.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 23, 2022)

Perhaps the barbaric Truss clique have conceded that they can't win the next election so their strategy is not to garner popular support but do all the raping, pillaging and looting of the UK economy they can until they lose power?


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 23, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Perhaps the barbaric Truss clique have conceded that they can't win the next election so their strategy is not to garner popular support but do all the raping, pillaging and looting of the UK economy they can until they lose power?


No I think they genuinely think this will work and when it fails their response will  be we didn't go far enough not that we went too far.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 23, 2022)

I wonder if there will be any pushback within the party? The disgruntled deposed members of the Johnson clique + MPs in marginals who don't want the barbaric Truss clique to scupper their chances of re-election + Tories worried about the barbaric Truss clique tanking the UK economy? Or will enough of them gamble on on barbaric Truss clique turning things around?


----------



## SysOut (Sep 23, 2022)

.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 23, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I wonder if there will be any pushback within the party? The disgruntled deposed members of the Johnson clique + MPs in marginals who don't want the barbaric Truss clique to scupper their chances of re-election + Tories worried about the barbaric Truss clique tanking the UK economy? Or will enough of them gamble on on barbaric Truss clique turning things around?


I think there will be pushback from her own MP's they cover a fairly broad range of views on things and she was not their first choice as Leader but was foisted on them by the party members. Personally I doubt Loopy Lizzie will last more than a year. 
But there is more than two years to the next election so they probably think if her mad schemes don't work out there is plenty of time yet to dump her and get someone else.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 23, 2022)

Truss has supposedly alienated the party by not bringing in all the talents (yes I am aware that talent is not something you can actually apply to politicians especially tory ones) and going for sycophants and enablers only.


It does look like they’ve got a bit giddy at getting hold of the keys and are pressing through with all the bad ideas at the same time out of excitement without reading the temperature of the room to give them pause


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Sep 23, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> and are pressing through with all the bad ideas at the same time



dunno

give them time

they can probably come up with some even more bad ideas


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 23, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Truss has supposedly alienated the party by not bringing in all the talents (yes I am aware that talent is not something you can actually apply to politicians especially tory ones) and going for sycophants and enablers only.
> 
> 
> It does look like they’ve got a bit giddy at getting by the keys and are pressing through with all the bad ideas at the same time out of excitement without reading the temperature of the room to give them pause



I can see how 12 years of zero accountability and getting away with anything they want might lead to them getting high on their own supply.



SysOut said:


> Kwasi Kwarteng’s mini-budget: key points at a glance | Mini-budget 2022 | The Guardian
> As if maundy money was "redistribution" 🤣



As if giving £150 billion of public money to private energy companies isn't 're-distribution'! They really bank on people having zero knowledge or critical thinking don't they?


----------



## ska invita (Sep 23, 2022)

pisstaking hi viz cunts - pull of a heist like today then quickly don hi viz and photoshoot in a factory


----------



## SysOut (Sep 23, 2022)

No point in posting if one's going to be misquoted


----------



## brogdale (Sep 23, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> No I think they genuinely think this will work and when it fails their response will  be we didn't go far enough not that we went too far.


It will work, in that the obscenely rich will become even more obscenely rich.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 23, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It will work, in that the obscenely rich will become even more obscenely rich.


This, of course is what they want to do. And hope that it isn't immediately apparent and that we quickly move on. They are only in it for themselves and the chance to climb the slippery pole


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 23, 2022)

It would be nice to have senior politicians that don't turn up for photo opportunities in hi-viz jackets. I don't know when it started but it's long past time to stop it.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 23, 2022)

For the Tory Vermin MP's who don't want a talentless nutcase in charge, it's gotta hurt knowing their membership are only interested in talentless nutcases.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 23, 2022)

ska invita said:


> pisstaking hi viz cunts - pull of a heist like today then quickly don hi viz and photoshoot in a factory
> View attachment 344124


A shit British remake of Money Heist.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 23, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It will work, in that the obscenely rich will become even more obscenely rich.


As this cunt proves   .
Feeling deep despair today.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 23, 2022)




----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 24, 2022)

AnarCom Network article regarding the mini-budget









						Back to the Future on a Budget
					

There is little point us giving a detailed breakdown of the recent ‘Fiscal Event’ as the bourgeois media is totally on it, and fair to say as aghast as everyone else! Government debt costs rise and…




					anarcomuk.uk


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Capital not buying the Truss story...
> 
> View attachment 343946



I'm not an economist but cutting tax revenue while borrowing 100 billion quid for a bailout seems like a slightly shit idea to me.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 24, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm not an economist but cutting tax revenue while borrowing 100 billion quid for a bailout seems like a slightly shit idea to me.


Yebbut, piles of debt incurring ever rising interest leading to more debt to service the debt payments keeps the PIMCOs of this world very happy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2022)

elbows said:


> Can we rebrand her Liz Trump?


Liz chump


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm not an economist


Nor's the chancellor


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2022)

ska invita said:


> pisstaking hi viz cunts - pull of a heist like today then quickly don hi viz and photoshoot in a factory
> View attachment 344124


A pair of berks


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 24, 2022)

Liz Pus


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Liz chump


Chiz Lump has a ring to it.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 24, 2022)

I still like Trussia whoever suggested that


----------



## brogdale (Sep 24, 2022)

I learnt today that the band of Brexit-barmy nut job tory Truss supporters like to style themselves as Trusketeers.

Vomit emoji


----------



## SysOut (Sep 24, 2022)

Just call her Tory Truss.
Tory for short.
Oh, they come, they go, but they're all Tories.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I learnt today that the band of Brexit-barmy nut job tory Truss supporters like to style themselves as Trusketeers.
> 
> Vomit emoji


Is this because there's only three of them?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 24, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Is this because there's only three of them?


If only


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 24, 2022)

Imagine, being the new Chancellor and the minute you speak at the despath box the pound tanks.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 24, 2022)

Harold Wilson bombed a tanker called the Tory Canyon


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 24, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Imagine, being the new Chancellor and the minute you speak at the despath box the pound tanks.


It's like you told a joke and everyone left the playground early, in favour of a religious studdies class. We are definately if stange times. It's like they want it to all go WW2 again.


----------



## Supine (Sep 24, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Harold Wilson bombed a tanker called the Tory Canyon



I scuba dived it a couple of times


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 24, 2022)

If true…


----------



## gosub (Sep 25, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> If true…



Got to earn their bonuses....

Course if you ARE paying higher bonuses, you can pay lower salaries....
Bankers might only notice the difference when it comes to redundancy payments


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 25, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> As this cunt proves   .
> Feeling deep despair today.



Is Femi really this naive? Mark Littlewood isn't someone that's just popped out the woodwork. He's been a popular talking head, favoured by the bbc, for years. Of course, he's pure scum


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 25, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I still like Trussia whoever suggested that


That was me, and I definitely feel like I'm now living in Trussia.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 25, 2022)

Indeed "Welcome to Trussia"


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 25, 2022)

More like 'Welcome to Trussia, unless you're old or poor or sick, in which case you can just fuck off to Rwanda'.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 25, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> More like 'Welcome to Trussia, unless you're old or poor or sick, in which case you can just fuck off to Rwanda'.


Is that the intro to their next election manifesto?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 25, 2022)

What a fucking joke of government! 









						Liz Truss’s plan for more migrants to boost growth
					

Liz Truss is facing her first cabinet row as she prepares to increase immigration to boost economic growth.The prime minister is pushing for wide-ranging refo




					www.thetimes.co.uk


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 25, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> What a fucking joke of government!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


archive.ph


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 25, 2022)

Come to Britain oh skilled foreigners!

We can offer you -- _checks notes --_ less money than other Western nations due to the accelerating collapse of our currency and our entirely broken housing system, fewer job protections than in Europe, some of the most restrictive policies against unions of any major economy, and a social atmosphere of rampant xenophobia! Come bathe in our toxic rivers and consume the food which we're progressively making less safe! Want to make sure you'll be looked after if you get sick? Fraid not, we've been deliberately running down the NHS so good luck finding a dentist or seeing a GP! Thinking about having a kid? Lol don't bet on childcare. Oh and if you think you'll be welcome past the very moment you've stopped being useful we've some bad news for you ...

I don't reckon this will be pulling in the best and brightest any time soon.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 25, 2022)

if the FTSE and pound continue to tank - and there are more polls like this one (or worse)  - what are the chances of a u-turn? they will be under severe pressure from the all directions (not least her own mps)  - but it pretty much buries her government from day one


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 25, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> if the FTSE and pound continue to tank - and there are more polls like this one (or worse)  - what are the chances of a u-turn? they will be under severe pressure from the all directions (not least her own mps)  - but it pretty much buries her government from day one
> View attachment 344394


I'd like to see her hit the ground, preferably from about 30,000 feet.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 25, 2022)

Tbf, she was elected Tory leader on a promise to govern like a loon.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 25, 2022)

I wonder how letters has Brady received so far.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 25, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I wonder how letters has Brady received so far.


I've sent ten


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> I'd like to see her hit the ground, preferably from about 30,000 feet.


If she runs off beachy head she might manage to hit the ground running


----------



## stavros (Sep 25, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Come to Britain oh skilled foreigners!
> 
> We can offer you -- _checks notes --_ less money than other Western nations due to the accelerating collapse of our currency and our entirely broken housing system, fewer job protections than in Europe, some of the most restrictive policies against unions of any major economy, and a social atmosphere of rampant xenophobia! Come bathe in our toxic rivers and consume the food which we're progressively making less safe! Want to make sure you'll be looked after if you get sick? Fraid not, we've been deliberately running down the NHS so good luck finding a dentist or seeing a GP! Thinking about having a kid? Lol don't bet on childcare. Oh and if you think you'll be welcome past the very moment you've stopped being useful we've some bad news for you ...


Oh, and you know that smiley old woman who some of you liked when she visited and waved at you? Well...


----------



## teqniq (Sep 25, 2022)

Well this all seems totally legit:

Top Liz Truss aide Mark Fullbrook paid through his private company



> The prime minister’s chief of staff is being paid through his lobbying company in a highly unusual arrangement that could allow him to pay less tax.
> Mark Fullbrook insists he is not being paid through his company for tax reasons and has obtained no tax benefit from the arrangement. However, he is refusing to explain the agreement that lets him direct government strategy without being directly employed by the government.
> Previous holders of the role have been treated like any other special adviser (Spad), appointed on a temporary civil service contract and paid a salary that is made public. Fullbrook is instead a contractor and will receive any payment through Fullbrook Strategies, a private lobbying company he created in April but which he says has suspended commercial activities.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2022)

its party policy bring back the schemes that higher earners used for tax avoidance
and to high light it a member of the prime minister staff exploiting it


but don't worry trickle down economic is a viable policy


jesus how angry do you think gary barlow and the rest of the guys caught over the last decade or so are atm


----------



## flypanam (Sep 25, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> if the FTSE and pound continue to tank - and there are more polls like this one (or worse)  - what are the chances of a u-turn? they will be under severe pressure from the all directions (not least her own mps)  - but it pretty much buries her government from day one
> View attachment 344394


Can’t imagine a u turn here. This bullshit is driven by actual politics not focus groups. The politics are fucking rotten and workers’ and others know it.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2022)

the more i see of this few weeks of this government 


it appears the party has accepted losing the next election


----------



## teqniq (Sep 25, 2022)

It looks very much like loot everything and enrich all your mates while you can doesn't it?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 25, 2022)

flypanam said:


> Can’t imagine a u turn here. This bullshit is driven by actual politics not focus groups. The politics are fucking rotten and workers’ and others know it.


yeah - but will that hold when the BofE has to massively jack up interest rates to protect the pound and the FTSE keeps heading down? It will be the likes the CBI, their own mps (and voters), and the big city investors who will be screaming blue murder - "money talks and bullshit walks" and all dat. Cos what they are doing isn't  only utterly immoral - its economically insane.


----------



## contadino (Sep 25, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> the more i see of this few weeks of this government
> 
> 
> it appears the party has accepted losing the next election


Yeah, it's all about a scorched earth strategy now.

Cut taxes to an unsustainable level so that an incoming administration needs to increase them. Any new government will be unpopular from the off.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 25, 2022)

teqniq said:


> It looks very much like loot everything and enrich all your mates while you can doesn't it?



a fire sale is what it looks like


----------



## brogdale (Sep 25, 2022)

teqniq said:


> It looks very much like loot everything and enrich all your mates while you can doesn't it?


An accelerated version of what's been happening for almost exactly 46 years.


----------



## gosub (Sep 25, 2022)

flypanam said:


> Can’t imagine a u turn here. This bullshit is driven by actual politics not focus groups. The politics are fucking rotten and workers’ and others know it.


More rotten than that.   So Truss and mates line their pockets thorugh what is going to be another year of tumoil.  Tehn we get an election, which I can't see the tories winning.  So who ends up in power? Keith who isn't sure strikes that meet legal thresholds should be supported.   At least Tony Blair PM was at least an anagram of I'm Tory Plan B . Keith doesn't even both with that


----------



## gosub (Sep 25, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - but will that hold when the BofE has to massively jack up interest rates to protect the pound and the FTSE keeps heading down? It will be the likes the CBI, their own mps (and voters), and the big city investors who will be screaming blue murder - "money talks and bullshit walks" and all dat. Cos what they are doing isn't  only utterly immoral - its economically insane.


MPC has to shadow the Fed to a certain extent anyway, hate to tell you this but Jerome Powell said he's going after inflation, interest rates 4.6% in US by middle of next year.

Think he's right to do so as well, but 'hard landing' is not the word.  BRACE! BRACE! BRACE! and soon


----------



## gosub (Sep 25, 2022)

Other side of that though.


It is going to be tough BUT we do have the Red Ruth Lithium, fracking stateside has lower emmisions quite a bit (but the earthquake thing, Airbus wings are switching to composite so might be OK), and due to the unique way things are funded ample scope for Kenyesian infrastructure spends (unlike China)  Shame about borrowing already being above 100% of GDP but what can you do May should never of decommissioned Rough


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 25, 2022)

gosub said:


> MPC has to shadow the Fed to a certain extent anyway, hate to tell you this but Jerome Powell said he's going after inflation 4.6% in US by middle of next year.
> 
> Think he's right to do so as well, but 'hard landing' is not the word.  BRACE! BRACE! BRACE! and soon


going to be very ugly I fear.


----------



## gosub (Sep 25, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> going to be very ugly I fear.


nobody can really see past it thats the problem. But I think a lot of people in financial services are going to have the opportunity to do something more worthwhile with their lives.  Not hard to make money when they keep fucking printing it,   tides turned


----------



## elbows (Sep 25, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - but will that hold when the BofE has to massively jack up interest rates to protect the pound and the FTSE keeps heading down? It will be the likes the CBI, their own mps (and voters), and the big city investors who will be screaming blue murder - "money talks and bullshit walks" and all dat. Cos what they are doing isn't  only utterly immoral - its economically insane.


Recession, interest rises etc look baked in already.

So I suppose if those things are to have supermassice political implications quickly, I'm looking for a really rapid shock that shakes things up beyond that in a matter of a week or a day, like events that used to be labelled along the lines of 'Black Wednesday'. Something that shreds the tories economic reputation in an instant. Something that causes real shock to reverberate and policy u-turns to occur at speed.

I dont know if we'll actually get that, but I wouldnt rule out the possibility. If it doesnt implode that dramatically, I cant say I relish the prospect of people suffering only in slow motion the realisation of what high interest rates, high inflation and a historically weak pound mean.

Likewise narratives about 'disaster capitalism' dont surprise me but I dont think they tell the story properly, that angle strikes me as being something narrow that grew to fill some dissatisfied left-wing activist needs during some decades of relative stability and dull mainstream economic consensus where the left were out in the cold and those in the driving seat had few major challenges. Bigger, broader stories will surely unfold if the turmoil is much broader. Sure there are always opportunists ready to take advantage of any situation, but they are often a side-show that does not really cover the reasons why giant mistakes and shitty policies happen, nor do they hint properly at the changes that will come about as the result of dramatic failure. They offer an obvious target for outrage, but they are an inadequate explanation, and if the shit really hits the fan then far more will be required in order to meet the demands for explanation and a way out, a new approach.

I suppose if the recent policy announcements dont trigger a rapid implosion, and market reality turns out to be somewhere in between sudden shocking collapse and slow horror, then there will be other possible shocks this winter which could yet activate the potential for rapid political drama. eg if the energy situation, which has so far been framed in this country mostly as a cost of living issue, suddenly reveals that its also a story of supply falling short of demand, with immediate implications for everyday life.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 25, 2022)

economic crash followed by swinging cuts to public services and wages, unemployment - probably under the next labour government.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 25, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> economic crash followed by swinging cuts to public services and wages, unemployment - probably under the next labour government.




Grim thing is there's very little left to cut. It's all been striipped back to the bone


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2022)

The country's most powerful ally refuses to do a trade deal till truss is gone (or biden's out of the white House, whichever happens first). Under any other administration that'd be front page news.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 25, 2022)

Cheese dream material


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 25, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Grim thing is there's very little left to cut. It's all been stripped back to the bone



Inflation is effectively constantly cutting the budget for the public sector already. Health, social care and education are near to collapse as it is.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Cheese dream material
> 
> View attachment 344415


Two-thirds of our dreams come from cheese.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 25, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Inflation is effectively constantly cutting the budget for the public sector already. Health, social care and education are near to collapse as it is.


It also reduces the cost of the debt - i remember hearing some left wing economist encouraging higher inflation in 2020, as borrowing would be needed for Covid and debt could be payed by inflating out of it
James Meadway IIRC


----------



## Supine (Sep 25, 2022)

ska invita said:


> It also reduces the cost of the debt - i remember hearing some left wing economist encouraging higher inflation in 2020, as borrowing would be needed for Covid and debt could be payed by inflating out of it
> James Meadway IIRC



Maybe true in some other circumstance but the run on gilts and the pound devaluation are making the cost of debt much higher this time  (i think - not an expert!)


----------



## belboid (Sep 25, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I've sent ten


How many were in green ink?


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Two-thirds of our dreams come from cheese.


That is a disgrace!  That means 4/9 of our dreams are imported


----------



## Raheem (Sep 26, 2022)

gosub said:


> That is a disgrace!  That means 4/9 of our dreams are imported


But we can easily compensate by incentivising nightmares.


----------



## DarkStars (Sep 26, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Inflation is effectively constantly cutting the budget for the public sector already. Health, social care and education are near to collapse as it is.



The £55,000 back via tax cuts for millionaires will trickle down and fix this silly, Ayn Rand said so via Ouija board during the last cabinet meeting.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

It would be nice if the rich did sponsor hospitals and libraries again instead of spunking it on phallic space rockets.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

Some reports of Tory Vermin MP’s planning a rebellion against the barbarian Truss clique:









						Liz Truss facing party pressure amid fears over pound slump
					

The pound’s value has dropped almost eight per cent against the US dollar in the past month




					uk.movies.yahoo.com


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

Just seen the front pages this morning...(still busy).  FFS 

Blaming 'city traders for fall in pound' - they are are the one who will keep their jobs and make their bonuses - borrowing now over 100% of GDP and the country is trying to borrow money in a negative yield curve.   Truss isn't Thatcher, and her husband isn't Dennis. But, as long as she's wearing that necklace mind, might as well deal with her Master.

Starmer- reinstate the 45% tax - how very small c conservative. Should have made it 50% and got ahead of the curve.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

ska invita said:


> It also reduces the cost of the debt - i remember hearing some left wing economist encouraging higher inflation in 2020, as borrowing would be needed for Covid and debt could be payed by inflating out of it
> James Meadway IIRC


In “Buying time’ (2014) Streeck identified Inflating away from debt as the first of the 3 post social contract, neoliberal ‘money illusion’ strategies employed by states to ‘buy time’ before declining real-terms returns to labour jeopardised rates of accumulation. When this inflationary strategy itself threatened rates of return to capital, it was cast as the great ‘dragon to be slain’ and the time was then bought by ballooning public debt. When that macroeconomic strategy itself spooked capital by threatening rates of accumulation, the consolidator states sought to cut psbr and pivoted to supporting consumption through ballooning private debt. Each of these strategies was, of course, ultimately at the expense of the wage-dependent population.

The desperation of Kwarteng's 'gamble' can be gauged by the fact that he is effectively throwing all 3 discredited post social contract strategies at the UK economy at once. Fourth 'strategy' or end of times?


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 26, 2022)

Anyone who thinks that inflation is running at less than 10% obviously doesnt do a family shop, run a car or provide a home and its bills. Or maybe they do and most of those costs come under easily claimed expenses


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It would be nice if the rich did sponsor hospitals and libraries again instead of spunking it on phallic space rockets.


The Shoreditch passmore Edwards library by the canal has been yuppie flats for some years now

Chats Palace in Homerton a former carnegie library


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Anyone who thinks that inflation is running at less than 10% obviously doesnt do a family shop, run a car or provide a home and its bills. Or maybe they do and most of those costs come under easily claimed expenses


So interest rate rises right thing to tackle it.....though you'd also have to do that if you don't want inflation related to dollar backed oil.... (or sell US bonds like Japan has done)   [bad news though for those living life on the never never]


----------



## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

Interest rates were always going to rise anyway because it was the one lever available to the BoE and because the Fed are doing it, which impacts exchange rates. The difference is that now, instead of seeing rates peak at about 4%, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them hit 8% or 10%. Nobody I know even in middle England or in the halls of capital thinks that it is a good idea to reduce taxes in the middle of an energy and commodity shock, while also involved in a proxy war and with starting high debt ratios. This is all kinds of fucked.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

Irrespective of what the BoE might/might not attempt, the markets are raising rates of interest (yield) on UK bonds (lending to Govt) by up to 0.5% this morning. The lack of OBR funding cost estimates really seems to have spooked the short-term rates.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Interest rates were always going to rise anyway because it was the one lever available to the BoE and because the Fed are doing it, which impacts exchange rates. The difference is that now, instead of seeing rates peak at about 4%, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them hit 8% or 10%. Nobody I know even in middle England or in the halls of capital thinks that it is a good idea to reduce taxes in the middle of an energy and commodity shock, while also involved in a proxy war and with starting high debt ratios. This is all kinds of fucked.


Yes, double digit interest rates on mortgages would be no surprise at all, with all that entails for personal disposable income.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 26, 2022)

gosub said:


> So interest rate rises right thing to tackle it.....though you'd also have to do that if you don't want inflation related to dollar backed oil.... (or sell US bonds like Japan has done)   [bad news though for those living life on the never never]


Dunno... its said that economics is far far away from a science and Id have thought that with so many uncontrollable variables worldwide that it cant be much different than a guessing game.

Maybe the truss gamble pays off and the torrent of trickledown washes all the woes of the less well off away. Built back better britain rallies against the dollar and we see 2$ to the 1£ again. None of the rich toffs just hide their wealth away in the Cayman Islands and decide to pay tax on it instead


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2022)

So the policy of borrowing fuck tons of public money to spunk on tax cuts for the rich in the middle of the worst inflation in 40 years is getting royally fucked by the markets. Seems they aren't buying into the magical thinking but are still stuck in the old fashioned orthodoxy called "reality" . I've never seen anything like it in the UK in response to a budget. Either they reverse it or we could be  going full greece 2009.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> So the policy of borrowing fuck tons of public money to spunk on tax cuts for the rich in the middle of the worst inflation in 40 years is getting royally fucked by the markets. Seems they aren't buying into the magical thinking but are still stuck in the old fashioned orthodoxy called "reality" . I've never seen anything like it in the UK in response to a budget. Either they reverse it or we could be  going full greece 2009.


Greece had people willing to chuck them some money in return for infrastructure. But so much UK infrastructure privatised. So who'll throw money at this shower?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Greece had people willing to chuck them some money in return for infrastructure. But so much UK infrastructure privatised. So who'll throw money at this shower?


Im happy to chuck a few paving slabs in their direction


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Greece had people willing to chuck them some money in return for infrastructure. But so much UK infrastructure privatised. So who'll throw money at this shower?


There's plenty of globalised "investment management firms" out there with reservoirs of dosh that they can throw at the UK state, but it will be on their terms and, with gilts up 20 BPS across the whole 50 year spread, they're making their terms obvious.

But, hey...we're taking back control.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2022)

Investment banker cunts less than enthusiastic about the prospects  of Britannia unhinged ...



> *Investors seem inclined to regard the UK Conservative Party as a doomsday cult, according to Paul Donovan, chief economist of UBS Global Wealth Management.*


----------



## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

By the way, since we’re talking about such things, when assessing the market reaction to the budget, you need to look at the FTSE 250, not the FTSE 100. The 100 contains a lot of companies that make most of their profits (a really high proportion) in other currencies. So the fall in GBP doesn’t affect them — they simply have more GBP profit to report. It’s the 250 that is the more domestic set of companies — they’re the ones that will be impacted.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Dunno... its said that economics is far far away from a science and Id have thought that with so many uncontrollable variables worldwide that it cant be much different than a guessing game.
> 
> Maybe the truss gamble pays off and the torrent of trickledown washes all the woes of the less well off away. Built back better britain rallies against the dollar and we see 2$ to the 1£ again. None of the rich toffs just hide their wealth away in the Cayman Islands and decide to pay tax on it instead


The one thing helicpter money (during lockdown) proved is don't. A lot of people spunked it on playing computer games, gambling and the like (their prerogative) though when those games got to the level of the Games stop debacle people noticed...Sensible thing to have used it for was to pay down debt


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 26, 2022)




----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 26, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It would be nice if the rich did sponsor hospitals and libraries again instead of spunking it on phallic space rockets.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 26, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Some reports of Tory Vermin MP’s planning a rebellion against the barbarian Truss clique:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tbh I never thought that she would last more than 12 months in the job but mutterings after 3 weeks is awesome especially remembering that everything was put on hold for 2 weeks due to the Dead Brenda Show

As for the pound I'm sure it's just a co-incidence


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 26, 2022)

Letters already going in according to Sky News sources


----------



## ska invita (Sep 26, 2022)

Their conference should be a laugh


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Letters already going in according to Sky News sources



Posted at 09:59 on the live blog.


> Liz is 'f*****' - former minister claims letters of no confidence already being submitted against the PM​The disquiet with Conservative MPs over the mini-budget is growing.
> One Tory MP who served as a minister under Boris Johnson has told Sky News: "Liz is f*****."
> "She is taking on markets and the Bank of England.
> "Her, Kwasi, Philp and Simon [McGee] are playing A-level economics with people's lives. You cannot have monetary policy and fiscal policy at loggerheads. Something has to give."
> ...


----------



## two sheds (Sep 26, 2022)

Oooooh another leadership election ❤️


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Posted at 09:59 on the live blog.



It was quite funny hearing Kay Burley read that live on air with Ed Conway while only being able to hint at the unbroadcastable language.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Interest rates were always going to rise anyway because it was the one lever available to the BoE and because the Fed are doing it, which impacts exchange rates. The difference is that now, instead of seeing rates peak at about 4%, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them hit 8% or 10%. Nobody I know even in middle England or in the halls of capital thinks that it is a good idea to reduce taxes in the middle of an energy and commodity shock, while also involved in a proxy war and with starting high debt ratios. This is all kinds of fucked.


"Analysts" reckon the markets are pricing in best part of 2% rise over next month!


----------



## moochedit (Sep 26, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Oooooh another leadership election ❤️


Johnson will stand won't he?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

It goes without saying that the average Daily Sieg Heil reader has the knowledge and critical thinking skills of a glue gun, but are even they going to fall for this horseshit?


----------



## moochedit (Sep 26, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> It goes without saying that the average Daily Sieg Heil reader has the knowledge and critical thinking skills of a glue gun, but are even they going to fall for this horseshit?



Just checked the mail comments on that story and the top voted comment from "karen222" is "Whatever Kwami. We all know about your links to Hedge Funds now making a fortune shorting government bonds. Did you crash the pound on purpose? We all want an answer."


----------



## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

Got to be a good chance that if they get rid of Truss, they’ll simply crown Sunak unchallenged.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Got to be a good chance that if they get rid of Truss, they’ll simply crown Sunak unchallenged.



That's what I am thinking, if this gets that messy I can't see them having another leadership contest.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's what I am thinking, if this gets that messy I can't see them having another leadership contest.



They've probably realised they can't give their lunatic membership a say on such matters any more!


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Got to be a good chance that if they get rid of Truss, they’ll simply crown Sunak unchallenged.



Guess whose back,
Boris is Back.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Got to be a good chance that if they get rid of Truss, they’ll simply crown Sunak unchallenged.


Iirc that happened when michael howard ran after duncan smith quit. depends if anyone else wants a go though.


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

Are we really extrapolating a leadership challenge on the back of some sweary anonymous briefing to journalists hungry for your clicks. Again.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's what I am thinking, if this gets that messy I can't see them having another leadership contest.


Would be like demanding another go at rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic

Leave it to the MPC, and start thinking about ripping out the wood paneling in First class! - it floats! Anything that floats! Talk about how the actual Ttanic was an insurance job covered up through masonic influence later, when


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2022)

I was expecting Truss to be shit. But for their to be serious talk about throwing her overboard after just three weeks in is gobsmacking. I think a lot fo people were expecting her loony campaing promises to be parked or fudged once she had to face economic reality - but she gone even further and doubled down. Cumming called her "The human hand grenade" - seems like an understatement.
So the options are -
1. She forges ahead in the face of market meltdown and inevitable interest rate rises which destroys the whole stated purpose of the budget (to promote "growth")
2. she is forced to ditch the budget (which pretty much destroys her government on day one) . Could Kwarting survive that? Could she?
3 they force her out - ( and yeah - I think they  will do their best to dodge a leadership election and appoint Sunak.)


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> Are we really extrapolating a leadership challenge on the back of some sweary anonymous briefing to journalists hungry for your clicks. Again.



This pretty much.

I’ll believe the tories are killing each when they do and not before because we’ve seen over and over again they vote party before conscience again and a again despite individuals supposedly not approving of half the shit the government puts up to vote


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> Are we really extrapolating a leadership challenge on the back of some sweary anonymous briefing to journalists hungry for your clicks. Again.



Not really ATM, but the possibly is amusing.


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> But for their to be serious talk about throwing her overboard after just three weeks


is there serious talk about throwing her overboard?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> is there serious talk about throwing her overboard?



There are rumours in the press of MPs considering submitting letters of no confidence in her.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 26, 2022)

gosub said:


> rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic


she might see it as proof of strength of character to ram the iceberg to shove it  away


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> There are rumours in the press of MPs considering submitting letters of no confidence in her.


that isn't 'serious talk' in my book.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 26, 2022)

she'd only claim that tax cuts and austerity haven't been given a proper chance


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> that isn't 'serious talk' in my book.



Not in itself no, but given the sheer scale of the backlash to the budget, its economic impacts and the many enemies Truss has already made in the party, I think the possibility of a rebellion fermenting pretty quickly is quite likely.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> There are rumours in the press of MPs considering submitting letters of no confidence in her.



Yeah, but we had that for bloody months before hitting the required number for a vote against Johnson, which he won anyway.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 26, 2022)

While it's fucking depressing to see what this gross incompetence is going to cause us all, it's also slightly amusing they've left a highly skilled Chancellor on the backbenches while this shitshow of 'talent' grapple with basic economics. And will surely finally lead to the end of the Tories for now

I have the (mis)fortune to work with financial analysts quite a lot and they can't believe what they're seeing. Fuck knows what Sunak is saying from up the back. Totally bonkers. We're now trading as a third world nation with a Chancellor who doesn't even understand the word 'recession'.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yeah, but we had that for bloody months before hitting the required number for a vote against Johnson, which he won anyway.



Still ultimately lead to his down fall - and we're literally talking about a regime that's basically only been in power 1 week if you subtract the dead lizzy period!


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

Petcha said:


> While it's fucking depressing to see what this gross incompetence is going to cause us all, it's also slightly amusing they've left a highly skilled Chancellor on the backbenches while this shitshow of 'talent' grapple with basic economics. And will surely finally lead to the end of the Tories for now
> 
> I have the (mis)fortune to work with financial analysts quite a lot and they can't believe what they're seeing. Fuck knows what Sunak is saying from up the back. Totally bonkers. We're now trading as a third world nation with a Chancellor who doesn't even understand the word 'recession'.



The phrase “Highly skilled chancellor on the back benches” is doing a lot of work there.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 26, 2022)

Well he understands how the markets work at least


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> Are we really extrapolating a leadership challenge on the back of some sweary anonymous briefing to journalists hungry for your clicks. Again.



A lot of tory mps are clearly pretty horrified. the talk of letters is a warning shot to truss to change course. Its not irrelevant.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Still ultimately lead to his down fall - and we're literally talking about a regime that's basically only been in power 1 week if you subtract the dead lizzy period!



It didn't really, it took bad council election results followed by the more serious Pincher scandal and further lies about that, to finally force them to kick him out.


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> A lot of tory mps are clearly pretty horrified. the talk of letters is a warning shot to truss to change course. Its not irrelevant.


Two tory MPs have trash talked (anonymously) to Sky.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

Petcha said:


> While it's fucking depressing to see what this gross incompetence is going to cause us all, it's also slightly amusing they've left a highly skilled Chancellor on the backbenches while this shitshow of 'talent' grapple with basic economics. And will surely finally lead to the end of the Tories for now
> 
> I have the (mis)fortune to work with financial analysts quite a lot and they can't believe what they're seeing. Fuck knows what Sunak is saying from up the back. Totally bonkers. We're now trading as a third world nation with a Chancellor who doesn't even understand the word 'recession'.


Dr Kwarteng is a man I might listen to on economic history, as I might listen to Dr Coffey discourse on tungsten. But they're both fools out of their subject and quite possibly in their subject too


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It didn't really, it took bad council election results followed by the more serious Pincher scandal and further lies about that, to finally force them to kick him out.



Yeah, but he was a deadman walking by that point, already fatally wounded by his slim victory in the no confidence vote. Pincher was the straw that broke the camel's back.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

SysOut said:


> she might see it as proof of strength of character to ram the iceberg to shove it  away


If the PM strips the MPC of its powers, she's boat happy


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

Anonymous briefing to journalists by a handful of disaffected MPs isn't an indication of a crisis in the leadership - it's an attempt to create a crisis.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> Anonymous briefing to journalists by a handful of disaffected MPs isn't an indication of a crisis in the leadership - it's an attempt to create a crisis.


Still cheering them on though


----------



## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> Anonymous briefing to journalists by a handful of disaffected MPs isn't an indication of a crisis in the leadership - it's an attempt to create a crisis.


Can you recall it happening to any other PM within three weeks of them taking charge?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

You know it's game over when Mick Hucknall is calling for a general strike.


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Can you recall it happening to any other PM within three weeks of them taking charge?


I remember it happening to Jeremy Corbyn within days of him taking charge of the Labour Party


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 26, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> You know it's game over when you lose the confidence of Mick Hucknall.



So long as he doesn't start singing


----------



## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> I remember it happening to Jeremy Corbyn within days of him taking charge of the Labour Party


I don’t recall him being PM?


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 26, 2022)

> Bank of England data going back to 1772 shows that this level of deficit has only been exceeded on three occasions, each of them during the second world war. In simple terms, the British people have become poorer without enjoying the benefits of a more competitive currency that the textbooks promise. And they are more reliant than ever on the kindness of strangers.











						Kwasi Kwarteng has shaken investor confidence in the UK
					

Market sell-off on ‘fiscal event’ was as bad a verdict as any chancellor could fear




					www.ft.com
				




This is pretty indicative of the FT recently - they've been absolutely roasting Truss and Kwarteng. T&K seem to have managed the trick of crafting a budget, intended purely as a sort of manifested fan fiction about big business, that big business itself is completely bemused and alarmed by. It's quite the effort to spook both the ruling and working class simultaneously.


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I don’t recall him being PM?


No, but he was elected to the leadership of his party by the membership against the wishes of the majority of the parliamentary party, so it's a comparison which could give some clues as to why this is happening with Truss when it didn't with May or Johnson.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 26, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> So long as he doesn't start singing


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Kwasi Kwarteng has shaken investor confidence in the UK
> 
> 
> Market sell-off on ‘fiscal event’ was as bad a verdict as any chancellor could fear
> ...



The barbaric Truss clique's attempt to ingratiate themselves with wealthy investors reminds me a bit of this fan's attempt to impress Alan Partridge. 



"I'm going to level with you Kwasi, I'm really scared"


----------



## kabbes (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> No, but he was elected to the leadership of his party by the membership against the wishes of the majority of the parliamentary party, so it's a comparison which could give some clues as to why this is happening with Truss when it didn't with May or Johnson.


There’s a huge difference between being made the leader of a group trying to get into government and being made the leader of a group that’s actually in government. When somebody becomes PM, their party will generally give them space for a while because it’s in all their interests to show their party as capable of governing.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 26, 2022)

This whole shit probably needs its own thread. But Kwateng vaguely alluding to more tax cuts to come over the weekend on the media rounds. I mean, wtf. Every word a Chancellor says is highly analysed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> There’s a huge difference between being made the leader of a group trying to get into government and being made the leader of a group that’s actually in government. When somebody becomes PM, their party will generally give them space for a while because it’s in all their interests to show their party as capable of governing.


You clearly think the opposition doesn't need to show itself capable of governing


----------



## magneze (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> Two tory MPs have trash talked (anonymously) to Sky.


Johnson and Sunak presumably 🙃


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Sep 26, 2022)

Petcha said:


> it's also slightly amusing they've left a highly skilled Chancellor on the backbenches while this shitshow of 'talent' grapple with basic economics. And will surely finally lead to the end of the Tories for now


I’m not sure Gordon…err..bats for their team


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 26, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> So long as he doesn't start singing


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I’m not sure Gordon…err..bats for their team


GB was too in awe of Greenspan imo.  It was Alistair Darling that had the tough job 2008.  Saw him coming out of Wishart one night, love that his wife calls him Alastair.   He must of hated black adder4


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 26, 2022)

6% interest rates by March !!!


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> There’s a huge difference between being made the leader of a group trying to get into government and being made the leader of a group that’s actually in government. When somebody becomes PM, their party will generally give them space for a while because it’s in all their interests to show their party as capable of governing.


I don't think this stuff isn't noteworthy - I just don't think it means we can expect a leadership challenge imminently. And it's worth thinking about the rolling news / twitter / maneuvering MPs feedback loop drama that this stuff is usually a part of, and how often that actually intersects with reality.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> I don't think this stuff isn't noteworthy - I just don't think it means we can expect a leadership challenge imminently. And it's worth thinking about the rolling news / twitter / maneuvering MPs feedback loop drama that this stuff is usually a part of, and how often that actually intersects with reality.



Perhaps a better indication of the mood of tory MPs at this stage is looking at what they're _not_ saying. Failure to publicly endorse this "mini" budget can more or less be taken as opposition to it, or at the least, hedging one's bets about whether to support the barbaric Truss clique. Would be interested to see what percentage of the government are not promoting it...


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Sep 26, 2022)

gosub said:


> GB was too in awe of Greenspan imo.  It was Alistair Darling that had the tough job 2008.  Saw him coming out of Wishart one night, love that his wife calls him Alastair.   He must of hated black adder4


I hadn’t realised he was still there..I assumed he’d been cleared out. Are there any other Major era veterans left? (Redwood excluded)


----------



## Petcha (Sep 26, 2022)

It appears to be open warfare between the exchequer and the BoE now. Just fucking sit down and calibrate you dickheads.



> The two-year gilt yield hit the highest level since the height of the financial crisis in 2008 while the 10-year yield hit the highest since April 2010. Investors will be compensated more for holding government bonds, which have become riskier, given the elevated levels of unfunded borrowing that has been mapped out by the Chancellor to pay for his tax cuts.
> 
> On top of that the market is pricing in an increased probability that the Bank of England will move more quickly to raise interest rates, also lifting yields and punishing bond prices.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 26, 2022)

Cheered my day right up. 








						Letters of no confidence in Liz Truss 'already being put in', claims Tory MP
					

LETTERS of no confidence in Liz Truss are already coming in amid fears she will "crash the economy", a source has suggested.




					www.thenational.scot


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 26, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Cheered my day right up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but is it really true? 

I guess I can think of one prominent backbencher who's written


----------



## maomao (Sep 26, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Interest rates were always going to rise anyway because it was the one lever available to the BoE and because the Fed are doing it, which impacts exchange rates. The difference is that now, instead of seeing rates peak at about 4%, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them hit 8% or 10%. Nobody I know even in middle England or in the halls of capital thinks that it is a good idea to reduce taxes in the middle of an energy and commodity shock, while also involved in a proxy war and with starting high debt ratios. This is all kinds of fucked.


I just fixed my mortgage for ten years two months ago. Boy do I feel smug. Anyone whose fixed deal ends soon must be bricking it.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I hadn’t realised he was still there..I assumed he’d been cleared out. Are there any other Major era veterans left? (Redwood excluded)


Darling jumped b4 the SNP Wipeout.

Too busy to do a run though of who's been in Parliament how long but can't offhand think of any talent (of either party) back then.  Aways found it odd Major called redwood et al  'bastards'. It was Major who wouldn't have a one on one with his chancellor on black Wednesday relied on a Cartman triangle instead (him Clarke,  Lawson) that saw interest rates sky rocket.. Lot of hurt off that decisio,n one 'the bastards' knew to be folly


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 26, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Investment banker cunts less than enthusiastic about the prospects  of Britannia unhinged ...


Good. What took them so long? They've been that for many years. Even when the Tories schemes don't go quite so immediately wrong, the scale and cumulative effects just ensure an eventual backlash that wouldn't be so severe had they not fucked everything so deeply. Tory Brexit Britain - price of everything, value of nothing.

Not many people, including the rich, want to live in a never ending crisis with crumbling infrastructure, a deteriorating public realm, naked (even proud) corruption, despair and hopelessness in the faces of people they see in the increasingly empty streets, and literal shit in the water. What these people have done is unreal.


----------



## contadino (Sep 26, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Johnson will stand won't he?


One thing's for sure, he'll be extra keen to trash the 'liar' enquiry double quick. Realistically he wouldn't be able to stand with that hanging over him.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 26, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> , but is it really true?


Don't know, even if it's only one I'll take that. Kwarteng seems to have lost his voice as well.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 26, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Good. What took them so long? They've been that for many years. Even when the Tories schemes don't go quite so immediately wrong, the scale and cumulative effects just ensure an eventual backlash that wouldn't be so severe had they not fucked everything so deeply. Tory Brexit Britain - price of everything, value of nothing.
> 
> Not many people, including the rich, want to live in a never ending crisis with crumbling infrastructure, a deteriorating public realm, naked (even proud) corruption, despair and hopelessness in the faces of people they see in the increasingly empty streets, and literal shit in the water. *What these people have done is unreal.*



They actually don't give a fuck for anyone except themselves and their mates (yes i know I'm repeating myself somewhat), but the sooner everyone realises the UK is being 'run' by a criminal cartel the better.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Good. What took them so long? They've been that for many years. Even when the Tories schemes don't go quite so immediately wrong, the scale and cumulative effects just ensure an eventual backlash that wouldn't be so severe had they not fucked everything so deeply. Tory Brexit Britain - price of everything, value of nothing.
> 
> Not many people, including the rich, want to live in a never ending crisis with crumbling infrastructure, a deteriorating public realm, naked (even proud) corruption, despair and hopelessness in the faces of people they see in the increasingly empty streets, and literal shit in the water. What these people have done is unreal.











						Liz Truss ‘promised chief of staff next Tory election campaign in exchange for No 10 job’
					

Exclusive: Senior Conservatives warn ‘quid pro quo’ arrangement with Mark Fullbrook spells ‘electoral doom’




					www.theguardian.com
				




Almost as if go back to your contiuenciws and prepare for opposition...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Don't know, even if it's only one I'll take that. Kwarteng seems to have lost his voice as well.



Rumour has it that Kwarteng & Truss are hiding in Johnson's fridge.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 26, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> They've probably realised they can't give their lunatic membership a say on such matters any more!


Let's fucking well hope so. They've really jumped the shark this time.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 26, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Don't know, even if it's only one I'll take that. Kwarteng seems to have lost his voice as well.


No, I think he's just a neoliberal automotaon. He's always been restrained. You don't seem him flapping around like Bojo. I find him cold and horrific


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Rumour has it that Kwarteng & Truss are hiding in Johnson's fridge.



A vicious rumour.

Truss was actually in the freezer.


----------



## donkyboy (Sep 26, 2022)

With sterling down, I bet rishi is sat at home thinking: see told you all. Should have voted for me....


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 26, 2022)

Breaking news.. 
Ño10 has said truss and kwarteng will not be making a statement on the £ as they don't comment on market movements. 
They just fuck it up and say nowt then.  🤷‍♀️


----------



## Smangus (Sep 26, 2022)

Shortest "Time is up"  thread eva?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 26, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> With sterling down, I bet rishi is sat at home thinking: see told you all. Should have voted for me....


He'll be rolling around on the floor with a stitch.


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> Anonymous briefing to journalists by a handful of disaffected MPs isn't an indication of a crisis in the leadership - it's an attempt to create a crisis.



At the very minimum its a reflection of the fact that unlike other recent leaders, Truss has made no attempt to pretend to be interested in uniting the party. Not via the choice of ministers, not via policy, not via rhetoric.

Combine this with how much of a spent force the tories seem to be at this stage, and the acute crises that are in play with the economy and energy, and there is the potential for drama that goes well beyond some party disunity shit-stirring in the media. I would agree that there are limits as to how much we should read into it right now, but should certainly keep in mind the potential for this stuff to explode very quickly if no sensible grip on the crisis seems to be on the cards.

The phrase headbangers is now present, eg:



> Sky political editor Beth Rigby has been sounding out Conservative MPs after the pound touched a record low against the dollar, and investors bet on interest rates passing 6% next year.
> 
> Speaking about the mini-budget, one senior Tory MP told her: "What are the fiscal rules?
> 
> ...



Some of the live rolling news today look a bit like they were anticipating the pound falling further once european markets opened, instead of recovering a bit from the record breaking lows that happened when the asian markets were  the only ones awake. But even if the slight recovery holds today, it will take far more than that to change the narrative. Even our dull media are not going to ignore the fact that some very basic rules that underpin the pretence of economic credibility have been shamelessly shredded, and the potential for perilous precipice plunges is very much heightened as a result.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Breaking news..
> Ño10 has said truss and kwarteng will not be making a statement on the £ as they don't comment on market movements.
> They just fuck it up and say nowt then.  🤷‍♀️


But, more importantly, they're not denying a BoE statement today. The markets want their pound of flesh and the shorters must be licking their lips...


----------



## Petcha (Sep 26, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> He'll be rolling around on the floor with a stitch.



I'm not an economist but it was fairly clear to me her policies were batshit. Can't believe we have a system where someone as obviously thick as she is is elected by 170,000 gammons to run the country. If an MP is tossed out for whatever reason we have a by-election. Of the whole electorate. Why not when a PM is deposed? Coz I'm fairly sure Truss would not be PM if this had been put to a general vote.


----------



## TomUS (Sep 26, 2022)

What's wrong with Labour?  How have the Tories been able to hang onto power for 12 years?  Do they really have that much support from the British public or has Labour just been ineffective at getting their message out?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 26, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> No, I think he's just a neoliberal automotaon. He's always been restrained. You don't seem him flapping around like Bojo. I find him cold and horrific



Well, not always.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 26, 2022)

It's coming back a bit


----------



## Raheem (Sep 26, 2022)

Petcha said:


> It's coming back a bit


There's various suggestions that it will continue falling for weeks. So, possibly dead cat bounce? I dunno.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

It goes up and down all day, best measure is a few days closing figures than watching it bob about


----------



## SysOut (Sep 26, 2022)

interest rate anticipation, or anticipating anticipation..


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2022)

Petcha said:


> It's coming back a bit



after seeing kwasi's shit-eating grin everywhere yesterday I'm pleased to note that he's not smiling any more


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 26, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

“This is the worst prime minister of my life”
“The worst prime minister of your life _so far_”


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Sep 26, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It would be nice to have senior politicians that don't turn up for photo opportunities in hi-viz jackets. I don't know when it started but it's long past time to stop it.



It's just a costume.  They want to pretend that they work for living and the really understand the problems of working people.


----------



## Lorca (Sep 26, 2022)

TomUS said:


> What's wrong with Labour?  How have the Tories been able to hang onto power for 12 years?  Do they really have that much support from the British public or has Labour just been ineffective at getting their message out?


Labour haven't got a message beyond a vague 'we'll probably be slightly less immiserating than the tories.' Doesn't exactly stir the soul does it tbf.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

Sick man of Europe; and they said it would be back to the 70's with Jezza.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 26, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It would be nice to have senior politicians that don't turn up for photo opportunities in hi-viz jackets. I don't know when it started but it's long past time to stop it.


Don't forget the hard hat!


----------



## two sheds (Sep 26, 2022)

Starmer could intervene by promising to Unify the Country, then expel all the left wingers.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 26, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> “This is the worst prime minister of my life”
> “The worst prime minister of your life _so far_”


True but she is setting a bar that is going to take some work to beat


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> True but she is setting a bar that is going to take some work to beat



I’m not convinced we’ve hit the bottom of the doom spiral yet


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> But, more importantly, they're not denying a BoE statement today. The markets want their pound of flesh and the shorters must be licking their lips...
> 
> View attachment 344512


The Largesse of Lamont 

(obscure tv beer commercial pun, it doesn't get better than this)


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 26, 2022)

SpackleFrog said:


> Well, not always.



Perhaps this is how he keeps his cool the rest of the time. He attends funerals and laughs inappropriately to let out the darkness. Except this is a very public funeral and we saw him.


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2022)

Black Wednesday has been trending on twitter.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

elbows said:


> Black Wednesday has been trending on twitter.



Everything gets a crap modern reboot


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 26, 2022)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> It's just a costume.  They want to pretend that they work for living and the really understand the problems of working people.


It fucks me off so much. They don't wear tabards when they go to supermarket photo ops, they don't wear stethoscopes when doing photo ops in GP surgeries, so I wish they'd drop the fucking hard hat and high viz shite.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

Its usually site safety regs that everyone on site dons up.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Everything gets a crap modern reboot


This is a reboot of something far older than then if you ask me (and you didn't)


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It fucks me off so much. They don't wear tabards when they go to supermarket photo ops, they don't wear stethoscopes when doing photo ops in GP surgeries, so I wish they'd drop the fucking hard hat and high viz shite.


I think in some cases they're wearing hi-vis cause they're on a site that it's a requirement aren't they?


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

It'd be pretty embarrassing if someone backed a forklift into the prime minister 'cause she wasn't wearing the right PPE and didn't get spotted by the forklift driver


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> It'd be pretty embarrassing if someone backed a forklift into the prime minister 'cause she wasn't wearing the right PPE and didn't get spotted by the forklift driver



As if the site gets any work done with the vips about


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

sure, but they have to pretend don't they?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 26, 2022)

They should definitely refuse to wear hi-vis on sites where it's compulsory for everyone else. Absolutely bomb-proof PR decision.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 26, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It fucks me off so much. They don't wear tabards when they go to supermarket photo ops, they don't wear stethoscopes when doing photo ops in GP surgeries, so I wish they'd drop the fucking hard hat and high viz shite.



Plenty of examples here. Not just hi viz...









						Prime Minister Truss dressed as a...
					

1. Train Driver (not ASLEF)




					www.urban75.net


----------



## moochedit (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> It'd be *fucking great* if someone backed a forklift into the prime minister 'cause she wasn't wearing the right PPE and didn't get spotted by the forklift driver


Ffy


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

killer b said:


> It'd be pretty embarrassing if someone backed a forklift into the prime minister 'cause she wasn't wearing the right PPE and didn't get spotted by the forklift driver


Until they thought about it and realised how popular they'd be, then they'd drive forwards over her to make sure


----------



## killer b (Sep 26, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Ffy


also that


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2022)

A variation on the crap theme of health and safety gone mad.


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> They should definitely refuse to wear hi-vis on sites where it's compulsory for everyone else. Absolutely bomb-proof PR decision.


well would show a commitment to cutting red tape on things like H&S


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

The Treasury & BoE are flailing around; can't imagine the money markets will be too impressed with "we'll look at all this in November"!


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

Thank goodness we didn’t get chaos with Ed Milliband really


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

lol; spot when the "calming" statements dropped...


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 26, 2022)

Mrs Q and I sat and watched Blind Dominic giving his excuses about breaking lockdown and claimed he only drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight. When he said that Mrs Q turned to me and said "What did he just say, I can't believe he just said that"
At 1630 last Friday there must have been loads of bankers and hedge fund managers watching the (not)budget last week who had exactly the same moment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> The Treasury & BoE are flailing around; can't imagine the money markets will be too impressed with "we'll look at all this in November"!


Natural party of government my arse


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

From a man at the FT.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> From a man at the FT.



Hence the renewed free fall of Sterling.


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2022)

I asked an AI art system for its verdict.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

Like a broken clock...


----------



## Supine (Sep 26, 2022)

I can see the uk’s credit rating being reduced.

Mortgage companies are starting to withdraw mortgage offerings now (Halifax and Virgin so far)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 26, 2022)

Supine said:


> I can see the uk’s credit rating being reduced.
> 
> Mortgage companies are starting to withdraw mortgage offerings now (Halifax and Virgin so far)


And, Skipton.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

Supine said:


> I can see the uk’s credit rating being reduced.
> 
> Mortgage companies are starting to withdraw mortgage offerings now (Halifax and Virgin so far)



Fucks sake


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 26, 2022)

It can't be healthy for us to live liek this


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 26, 2022)

as has been said up thread got to give Lizzie some credit fucking the queen and country within the first 3 weeks that some achievement


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 26, 2022)

Lorca said:


> Labour haven't got a message beyond a vague 'we'll probably be slightly less immiserating than the tories.' Doesn't exactly stir the soul does it tbf.


I don't want my soul stirred at this point. An end or slowing of this endless fucking chaos would do just fine.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 26, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I don't want my soul stirred at this point. An end or slowing of this endless fucking chaos would do just fine.


shaken?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 26, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Thank goodness we didn’t get chaos with Ed Milliband really


Aren't we fortunate.

Amazingly, I know a couple of Tories who swear blind, and were still doing so as of just this weekend, that their party has saved us from a fate worse than death. I don't know how the mess could be greater, short of nuclear war, but this lot are even working on that. There are prolific serial killers who've caused less fear and distress than this government, and terrorist groups who'd have thought better of inflicting this scale of damage to the UK.

Never has a picture of a Jewish guy eating a bacon sandwich been used to such ill effect.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 26, 2022)

two sheds said:


> shaken?


Yes, that's often the way one feels after being mugged.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> as has been said up thread got to give Lizzie some credit fucking the queen and country within the first 3 weeks that some achievement


You won't like it once she's got into her stride


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 26, 2022)

Managing to fuck over the workers and freak out capital at the same time has very failed state energy


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 26, 2022)

and they are only getting started


----------



## two sheds (Sep 26, 2022)

From CPRE: 



> On Friday, *Kwasi Kwarteng, the new chancellor, revealed plans to strip away the protection of the planning system from swathes of the countryside [1]*. These new “investment zones” are deregulation on steroids, threatening many of our most loved landscapes.
> 
> If these plans go ahead developers will be given free rein to industrialise our countryside, changing the face of rural England for generations to come. We cannot stand by and allow the wildlife and landscapes that make our country so special to be robbed from us, our children or our grandchildren.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> and they are only getting started


How much more scraping can there be before the bottom of the barrel's scraped right through?


----------



## prunus (Sep 26, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> How much more scraping can there be before the bottom of the barrel's scraped right through?



It’s barrels all the way down.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2022)

prunus said:


> It’s barrels all the way down.


But none of fun


----------



## Knotted (Sep 26, 2022)

Anecdotally biased but:

There's a certain right wing political coalition that has coalesced firstly around UKIP and Farage and found expression in Tory governments post Cameron. I think it's crumbling before our eyes. Listening to two of this ilk today talking to each other baffled about why the energy companies are let off, baffled about why borrowing is suddenly OK, saying they're more worried about the NHS than taxes and talking about the importance of investing in renewable energy. I think there's a big urge to give the new government a chance but my feeling is that that's rapidly dissolving. It's not that Truss has turned everyone into left wingers it's just something so naked about her project that it's repellent to pretty much everyone and the sycophantic right wing media doesn't hold so much sway anymore. There isn't that spring in their step anymore as there isn't a readily available ideology that makes sense of the world to them. If I'm right in that there is no a large newly politically homeless group, I'm not sure where they will end up, but I think in the immediate they will just stop voting Tory probably just stop voting at all.


----------



## Knotted (Sep 26, 2022)

Et tu Telegraph already?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

Scum


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 26, 2022)

close allies is this due to expected growth of the uk economy ?

similar to Italy's


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 26, 2022)

It might be the far right but it’s progressive feminine far right


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 26, 2022)

no wonder Liz Truss has offered her support

saying that she more than likely critique the Italian pm for not cracking down hard enough on the real problem poor people


----------



## gosub (Sep 26, 2022)

It’s not going entirely well for Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng – 27 tweets that sum it up best
					

The shockwaves of Kwasi Kwarteng’s ‘mini’ budget and the biggest tax cuts for 50 years continue to reverberate, with markets in freefall and the pound plummeting to a record low against the dollar. And not just the dollar, it turns out. Forget the dollar, the pound is tanking against the ruble...




					www.thepoke.co.uk


----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> close allies is this due to expected growth of the uk economy ?
> 
> similar to Italy's


we're burning through PMs as fast as they are now


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 26, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Sep 26, 2022)

lol


----------



## Petcha (Sep 26, 2022)

Absolute political suicide.

Starmer's on course for a massive massive landslide.


----------



## Sue (Sep 26, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Absolute political suicide.
> 
> Starmer's on course for a massive massive landslide.


What a time to be alive.

(Haven't been following the polling so no idea how likely that is but Jeezo. )


----------



## Raheem (Sep 27, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Absolute political suicide.
> 
> Starmer's on course for a massive massive landslide.


If we can get that far without martial law.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 27, 2022)

Prolly already been posted. But worth a giggle.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 27, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Absolute political suicide.
> 
> Starmer's on course for a massive massive landslide.




Paywall busted link - Labour surges in polls as ‘clown show’ economics turns off voters

There's stunning poll results in that.



> Kwarteng’s decision to scrap the 45 per cent rate of tax for those earning more than £150,000 was opposed by 72 per cent of voters including 69 per cent of those who backed the Conservatives in 2019.
> 
> The move to lift restrictions on bankers’ bonuses was rejected by 71 per cent of the electorate, including 67 per cent of Tory voters.
> 
> Just 9 per cent of voters thought that the measures outlined in the budget would make them better off, while only 15 per cent believed they would achieve the government’s aim of kickstarting economic growth.





> Overall, 60 per cent said Kwarteng’s £45 billion tax giveaway was unaffordable for the country and 25 per cent thought that the government had a clear plan to manage the economy.
> 
> The poll findings will alarm Tory MPs coming on top of today’s market reaction to the government’s plans to increase borrowing in the short term to boost growth.
> 
> ...


----------



## Petcha (Sep 27, 2022)

Well. I'll say it again. Everyone I know who know in those circles who know Rishi Sunak say he's incredibly intelligent and was clearly the right man for the job. So. Well. We've got this shitshow instead who will obvs destroy the Party but at what cost in the short term. Very depressing.


----------



## Supine (Sep 27, 2022)




----------



## teqniq (Sep 27, 2022)

Saw this yesterday, made me smile:


----------



## brogdale (Sep 27, 2022)

Trusskateers going full-on MAGA...


----------



## moochedit (Sep 27, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Prolly already been posted. But worth a giggle.



To be fair she had only been in the job for a day. I couldn't tell you who the current oz pm is without googling it


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 27, 2022)

Twitter video - Truss rings a bell and manages to fuck it up. It’s very droll


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 27, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Twitter video - Truss rings a bell and manages to fuck it up. It’s very droll



The rhythm is quite hypnotic


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 27, 2022)

moochedit said:


> To be fair she had only been in the job for a day. I couldn't tell you who the current oz pm is without googling it


All I know is he like the Pixies.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 27, 2022)

moochedit said:


> To be fair she had only been in the job for a day. I couldn't tell you who the current oz pm is without googling it


But then again, you're not a professional anchor broadcasting from Australia on the biggest global news item of the time.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 27, 2022)

elbows said:


> Black Wednesday has been trending on twitter.


"_How does it feel, tell me now, how does it feel"_


----------



## emanymton (Sep 27, 2022)

Sue said:


> What a time to be alive.
> 
> (Haven't been following the polling so no idea how likely that is but Jeezo. )


Yeah I just can't get excited about a tory election defeat when I look at the "opposition".


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 27, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Yeah I just can't get excited about a tory election defeat when I look at the "opposition".


Its a 'not working on a Monday but doing overtime on Tuesday' feeling.


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 27, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Yeah I just can't get excited about a tory election defeat when I look at the "opposition".


If I thought it was actually going to happen Id be excited as fuck


----------



## zenie (Sep 27, 2022)

I liked this one


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 27, 2022)

zenie said:


> I liked this one
> 
> View attachment 344647


If true that would amazing


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 27, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> If true that would amazing


World-beating


----------



## Sue (Sep 27, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> If I thought it was actually going to happen Id be excited as fuck


Why?


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 27, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> World-beating


And the shortest reign of any PM too


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 27, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> And the shortest reign of any PM too


We can only hope her head ends adorning a pike


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 27, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> We can only hope her head ends adorning a pike


That's all we can hope for atm


----------



## teuchter (Sep 27, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Twitter video - Truss rings a bell and manages to fuck it up. It’s very droll



I actually would say that the fault there is with the design of the bell-stand rather than Liz Truss.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 27, 2022)

rather than the bell-end.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 27, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I actually would say that the fault there is with the design of the bell-stand rather than Liz Truss.


Yes I thought you would,  you're a famous bell end


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 27, 2022)

Imagine eliciting a tweet this angry from the RSPB. This fucking maniac government.


----------



## Smangus (Sep 28, 2022)

Being very quiet our PM, lol


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 28, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Imagine eliciting a tweet this angry from the RSPB. This fucking maniac government.



Unroll: Thread by @Natures_Voice on Thread Reader App


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 28, 2022)

hmm has Truss booked a ticket to Kiev to piss around playing dress up in a tank yet


----------



## Supine (Sep 28, 2022)

Haha. That’s nice of him.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 28, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm has Truss booked a ticket to Kiev to piss around playing dress up in a tank yet


Don't! She'll accidentally blow up that nuclear power plant, blame it on Russia and start ww3


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 28, 2022)

Supine said:


> Haha. That’s nice of him.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 28, 2022)

if she wasn't a tory piece of shit I'd feel sorry for her


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> if she wasn't a tory piece of shit I'd feel sorry for her



good exchange rate tbf


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 28, 2022)

ska invita said:


> good exchange rate tbf


Tbf, you are completely correct. The fall in the pond makes it cheaper for US companies and private equity to buy up UK businesses. 

Of course, Truss will frame that as “investment” in the UK, whereas what is really happening is that the country is being sold off on the cheap.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2022)

THe way things are going - i.e. the small matter of a completely self inflicted economic meltdown  - I think tory mps chucking out truss and replacing her with Sunak in a coup is well within the bounds of possibility. 
Where the fuck is she btw? 
Has there ever been a more spectacular political self immolation?


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> Tbf, you are completely correct. The fall in the pond makes it cheaper for US companies and private equity to buy up UK businesses.
> 
> Of course, Truss will frame that as “investment” in the UK, whereas what is really happening is that the country is being sold off on the cheap.


it is very fortunate for us that Trump isnt in the white house right now...the next Tory-Republican alignment is going to be savage


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> THe way things are going - i.e. the small matter of a completely self inflicted economic meltdown  - I think tory mps chucking out truss and replacing her with Sunak in a coup is well within the bounds of possibility.
> Where the fuck is she btw?
> Has there ever been a more spectacular political self immolation?


I await more signs that the Truss Fundies are revolting.


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2022)

Both Starmer and Sturgeon have called for parliament to be recalled.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 28, 2022)

elbows said:


> Truss Fundies



Trussafarians


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 28, 2022)

It would be quite amusing if Truss were to throw Kwarteng under the bus and attempt to carry on as if he had just gone rogue or something.I mean it would be a desperate strategy but I expect she could manage it.


----------



## LDC (Sep 28, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> THe way things are going - i.e. the small matter of a completely self inflicted economic meltdown  - I think tory mps chucking out truss and replacing her with Sunak in a coup is well within the bounds of possibility.
> Where the fuck is she btw?
> Has there ever been a more spectacular political self immolation?



Yeah, I was wondering where she is. Not one interview I've seen, nor even a comment. Re-inventing herself again?


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2022)

Oops.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 28, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> The fall in the pond makes it cheaper for US companies and private equity to buy up UK businesses.


makes it so much easier when it comes to selling the nhs


----------



## xenon (Sep 28, 2022)

I know she said she didn’t mind being unpopular. but I did not think she meant with the markets, financial institutions, Business.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I actually would say that the fault there is with the design of the bell-stand rather than Liz Truss.


And, as a matter of interest, why would you make that particular distinction at this present time?


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 28, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> It would be quite amusing if Truss were to throw Kwarteng under the bus and attempt to carry on as if he had just gone rogue or something.I mean it would be a desperate strategy but I expect she could manage it.



It's that, or she takes blame for it, not helped by her more acceptably meme-able name.

Just saw the current state of affairs labelled as Trussterfuck on Twitter


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 28, 2022)

Supine said:


> Haha. That’s nice of him.



Rishi right now:


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

It's worth noting that she's having it easy at the moment in terms of the dead sheep attacks that starmer is launching (while Labour have until very recently also still been obsessed with de-Corbynification).  John Smith would have destroyed her in Parliament and, heresy though it is to say it, Blair would too.  The mixture of his smug but effective oratory and Alistair Campbell's attack dog would have worked as a media strategy.  I know many people overestimate the effectiveness of the Labour machine in that period, but there was more of a sense of the (yuk) product being sold, replete with all the snake oil needed to get us to part with our money.  Heresy ends.

Maybe though, starmer's moment has come in the sense that this crisis has created a space for someone 'dull but not liz truss'.  I still think Labour will need to do more to establish an identity, but for the next few months 'not being liz truss' is quite enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's worth noting that she's having it easy at the moment in terms of the dead sheep attacks that starmer is launching (while Labour have until very recently also still been obsessed with de-Corbynification).  John Smith would have destroyed her in Parliament and, heresy though it is to say it, Blair would too.  The mixture of his smug but effective oratory and Alistair Campbell's attack dog would have worked as a media strategy.  I know many people overestimate the effectiveness of the Labour machine in that period, but there was more of a sense of the (yuk) product being sold, replete with all the snake oil needed to get us to part with our money.  Heresy ends.
> 
> Maybe though, starmer's moment has come in the sense that this crisis has created a space for someone 'dull but not liz truss'.  I still think Labour will need to do more to establish an identity, but for the next few months 'not being liz truss' is quite enough.


Sadly not being lt for the next few months,barring truss losing her nerve, is of no importance whatsoever


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Sadly not being lt for the next few months,barring truss losing her nerve, is of no importance whatsoever


I notice the guardian are getting feverish about 'letters going in to the 1922' which was one of their obsessions throughout johnson's clusterfuck on stilts.  Even though tory mps have the morals not just of the rats fleeing a sinking ship, they are more like the fleas deserting the rats, don't see anything like a challenge happening. They are stuck with her.  Unfortunately, we are stuck with the consequences.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I notice the guardian are getting feverish about 'letters going in to the 1922' which was one of their obsessions throughout johnson's clusterfuck on stilts.  Even though tory mps have the morals not just of the rats fleeing a sinking ship, they are more like the fleas deserting the rats, don't see anything like a challenge happening. They are stuck with her.  Unfortunately, we are stuck with the consequences.


There is no way sufficient mps would support a no-confidence vote. The phrase doing the rounds is 'always keep a hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse', and believe you me several names spring to mind who would be even worse than la truss


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> There is no way sufficient mps would support a no-confidence vote. The phrase doing the rounds is 'always keep a hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse', and believe you me several names spring to mind who would be even worse than la truss


True, but important to remember that they wanted Sunak not Truss.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I notice the guardian are getting feverish about 'letters going in to the 1922' which was one of their obsessions throughout johnson's clusterfuck on stilts.  Even though tory mps have the morals not just of the rats fleeing a sinking ship, they are more like the fleas deserting the rats, don't see anything like a challenge happening. They are stuck with her.  Unfortunately, we are stuck with the consequences.




Possible she ends up damaged and hobbled like May did and with clear sword of Damocles over head.

It’s Truss though so I don’t expect her to go quietly.

The “I’ve submitted a letter” thing is definitely the lamest rumour mill disguised as news aspect of this stuff


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2022)

brogdale said:


> True, but important to remember that they wanted Sunak not Truss.


I don't suppose even the Tory geriatric membership are that keen on her any more


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I don't suppose even the Tory geriatric membership are that keen on her any more


Thick greedy fuckers deserve to die of shock, tbh


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Thick greedy fuckers deserve to die of shock, tbh


Too good for them


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

brogdale said:


> True, but important to remember that they wanted Sunak not Truss.


Running the leadership again at any point before the next election makes them look like a skip fire on steroids, a box of frogs where the frogs have all brought their mates.  Letting this unroll with PM and Chancellor remaining in post fucks them over economic competency and almost certainly brings kieth in as the next fucking useless PM.  Ironically, both of those options probably deliver on both of those consequences.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Anyway at what point does boris johnson make his 'this wouldn't have happened if you'd let me stay on' claim?


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Anyway at what point does boris johnson make his 'this wouldn't have happened if you'd let me stay on' claim?


'If I can have some new wallpaper, I'll consider coming back'.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Anyway at what point does boris johnson make his 'this wouldn't have happened if you'd let me stay on' claim?


More seriously, Sunak can pretty genuinely claim to have told the tories that this would all happen if Truss was given free rein


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 28, 2022)

Apparently tory party rules prevent a no-confidence vote in the first 12 months of any new leader taking over.

Of course, they could change the rules.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Apparently tory party rules prevent a no-confidence vote in the first 12 months of any new leader taking over.
> 
> Of course, they could change the rules.


But they won't.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 28, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Apparently tory party rules prevent a no-confidence vote in the first 12 months of any new leader taking over.


Great news! All the younguns having this example of why to never vote tory, fantastic.


----------



## kebabking (Sep 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> But they won't.



They may talk about changing the rules, so they don't have to...

Brady simply (simply!) has to tell Truss and the CW that a majority of BB MP's have expressed a desire to change the rules and to then force her out - he'd be offering her the opportunity to _set her affairs in order_ and to resign, rather than face the ignominy of having the rules changed specifically in order to force her out (PM for 3 weeks).

She'll probably fight it out, because she's a massive egotist and because she'll bet that Tory MP's think that the electorate won't react well to three PM's in one parliament - but if this stuff keeps happening, and a third of Tory MP's think they'll lose their seats, and another third think they'll be out of power for a decade, then the bets are off.

They aren't as ruthless as they used to be, but they still do self-interest...


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)

knee-jerk


----------



## Rimbaud (Sep 28, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The liberal left celebrated the demise of Johnson as 'the worst PM ever, only to find itself confronted two months later by the new 'worst PM ever'. Any successful resistance or challenge isn't going to come from miles off reductive portrayal's of her as thick or out of her depth. It can only be built on an understanding of what is going on and the inevitable consequences of it.



Tbh, I'd say our PMs genuinely have gotten progressively worse since Brown. 

Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown, regardless of what you think of their politics, were at least serious and competent politicians who did their homework. 

The decline of talent and seriousness within politics and its descent into a circus is not a phenomena limited to the UK, and it is worthy of analysis. I would hypothesise that it is related to the decline of political party membership and civil society organisations, a cultural change where nobody wants to be a politician driven at least in part by relentless monstering of the public sector by corporate media, and the reduction of politics since Blair era to focus groups and populism over substantial policies and social movements.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> And, as a matter of interest, why would you make that particular distinction at this present time?


Is it because I'm a thinly disguised, rabid Truss fan with a vendetta against the bell-stand industry?


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 28, 2022)

brogdale said:


> knee-jerk



At least she's alive.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2022)

Rimbaud said:


> Tbh, I'd say our PMs genuinely have gotten progressively worse since Brown.
> 
> Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown, regardless of what you think of their politics, were at least serious and competent politicians who did their homework.
> 
> The decline of talent and seriousness within politics and its descent into a circus is not a phenomena limited to the UK, and it is worthy of analysis. I would hypothesise that it is related to the decline of political party membership and civil society organisations, a cultural change where nobody wants to be a politician driven at least in part by relentless monstering of the public sector by corporate media, and the reduction of politics since Blair era to focus groups and populism over substantial policies and social movements.


Yeh it's been under discussion in this country for more than 20 years, the rise of the political class. The way they've gone to oxbridge, studied most commonly ppe and ever since worked for a political party before becoming an mp. Seriously there are books going back to the start of the century looking at the phenomenon, really surprised Peter Oborne etc have passed you by


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2022)

Kwarting surely has to go - the markets and the IMF have got the government's bollocks in a crusher. If they plough on then the chaos will only accelerate. So the budget will have to be reversed - and KK booted out. And that utterly shreds Truss's authority (which was shaky anyway). Tory Mps (and some in the cabinet) might  judge that damange limitation is the best bet and  get her the fuck out ASAP and install Sunak via a palace coup (like what happend to IDS) - also Johnson was not forced out by a confidence vote - it was mass resignations).  Not saying that will happen - but I think its defitienly within the realm of "reasonable possibility" .
They are utterly fucked.  A tragi-comic laughing stock.

And every hour Truss fails to appear and make a statmenet is making it worse. Im still gobsmacked by whats happening (as are many commentators - and varous big hitting finaincial cunts). It utterly through the looking glass stuff. And why the fuck didnt starmer tear them a new arsehole? - this is waaaaayy beyond your normal level of fuck up and cuntishness. We're through the looking glass.


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh it's been under discussion in this country for more than 20 years, the rise of the political class. The way they've gone to oxbridge, studied most commonly ppe and ever since worked for a political party before becoming an mp. Seriously there are books going back to the start of the century looking at the phenomenon, really surprised Peter Oborne etc have passed you by



Theres also a problem with their ideological preferences being incompatible with some of the core inevitabilities of this century.

For example if you look at the full ramifications of the transition required due to climate change and energy issues this century, once the low hanging fruit has been done, the next set of actions renders much of the shit we've had in the last 40+ years woefully out of step.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

kebabking said:


> They may talk about changing the rules, so they don't have to...
> 
> Brady simply (simply!) has to tell Truss and the CW that a majority of BB MP's have expressed a desire to change the rules and to then force her out - he'd be offering her the opportunity to _set her affairs in order_ and to resign, rather than face the ignominy of having the rules changed specifically in order to force her out (PM for 3 weeks).
> 
> ...


I'm not too sure about this. It's now become a thing that you fight on in the face of a vonc though, I suspect, tory MPs would probably take sunak 'by acclamation' if truss was to pack it in.  But for now, I think it's the economic madness and her inability to even appear in public that's the issue.  If Labour manage a 20%+ lead... if the tory conference goes nuts... all that stuff might do for her and I doubt it will ever get to a rule change, threatened or actual.  Some big demos this weekend will help.

Having said all that, I think she'll lead them into the next election. Kwarteng is almost certainly toast.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2022)

yeah - 


Wilf said:


> I'm not too sure about this. It's now become a thing that you fight on in the face of a vonc though, I suspect, tory MPs would probably take sunak 'by acclamation' if truss was to pack it in.  But for now, I think it's the economic madness and her inability to even appear in public that's the issue.  If Labour manage a 20%+ lead... if the tory conference goes nuts... all that stuff might do for her and I doubt it will ever get to a rule change, threatened or actual.  Some big demos this weekend will help.
> 
> Having said all that, I think she'll lead them into the next election. Kwarteng is almost certainly toast.


yeah - the opinion polling is going to be very  grim reading for the torys. It woulds be funny if it wasnt for the damage this is going to do to us.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Seem to remember johnson appointed ministers who were pretty much juggling acceptance and resignation letters.  We must be close to that point again.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)

How come no-one's yet posted up _that_ Joy Division song yet?


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 28, 2022)

Transmission?


----------



## agricola (Sep 28, 2022)

brogdale said:


> knee-jerk




Well that phone call didn't go well then, at least judging by how that tweet was worded.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 28, 2022)

Confusion in her eyes that says it all...


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Just about the only chance they have would be dragging sunak in and him repeating his 'I know how to add up and I'm not like that loon' message.  If they could somehow magic that up in the next 24 hours I'd have Lab and Con as neck and neck for the next election, almost entirely on grounds of kieth's shitness. As always, in politics, there's not always an easy way to get to where you think you should be, so sunak will be left looking 'competent' in Yorkshire.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 28, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> At least she's alive.



I have yet to see proof of life


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2022)

Remember the days of yore (three weeks ago)  when sundry commentators were telling us not to underestimate Liz Truss? They were more right then they knew. Just not in the way they meant.


----------



## Supine (Sep 28, 2022)

brogdale said:


> knee-jerk




She’ll be taking out a mortgage so we can donate two bullets to Ukraine at this rate


----------



## agricola (Sep 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh it's been under discussion in this country for more than 20 years, the rise of the political class. The way they've gone to oxbridge, studied most commonly ppe and ever since worked for a political party before becoming an mp. Seriously there are books going back to the start of the century looking at the phenomenon, really surprised Peter Oborne etc have passed you by



he doesn't have the best record of predictions, but that book was emphatically proved correct by events


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Has a leader's address to the tory conference ever been delivered from the inside of a fridge?


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Supine said:


> She’ll be taking out a mortgage so we can donate two bullets to Ukraine at this rate


'_Donate your energy bill rebate to the Ukraine! Or perhaps get King Charles a new pen set'._


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2022)

background chatter - but still - fucking hell! 3 weeks in.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 28, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> I have yet to see proof of life


I was thinking that as soon as I posted to be fair.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

The amusing thing is that when she finally emerges from the bunker, she'll still be forced to defend trickledown and that this mayhem is promoting enterprise.


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> a box of frogs where the frogs have all brought their mates.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Running the leadership again at any point before the next election makes them look like *a skip fire on steroids, a box of frogs where the frogs have all brought their mates.*  Letting this unroll with PM and Chancellor remaining in post fucks them over economic competency and almost certainly brings kieth in as the next fucking useless PM.  Ironically, both of those options probably deliver on both of those consequences.


This place is an absolute gold mine of descriptive prose, absolutely love it


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)

This is one smart cat.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## andysays (Sep 28, 2022)

I just checked how old this thread was, and it appears it was started exactly twelve weeks ago, though it feels like longer.

We all knew Truss was going to be a disaster, but did anyone really imagine it would turn so disastrous so fucking quickly?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2022)

andysays said:


> I just checked how old this thread was, and it appears it was started exactly twelve weeks ago, though it feels like longer.
> 
> We all knew Truss was going to be a disaster, but did anyone really imagine it would turn so disastrous so fucking quickly?


tbf - Rishi Sunak.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 28, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> tbf - Rishi Sunak.


One person who is definitely entitled to say "I told you" at the moment.


----------



## andysays (Sep 28, 2022)

I wouldn't be surprised if it's already been done somewhere, but if not, someone needs to photo shop Truss's face on to this...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 28, 2022)

andysays said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it's already been done somewhere, but if not, someone needs to photo shop Truss's face on to this...
> 
> View attachment 344844


Its been done, yes, its uncanny - knew I’d screenshot it


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 28, 2022)

At this point I think she'll actually push the tickell button


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 28, 2022)

andysays said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it's already been done somewhere, but if not, someone needs to photo shop Truss's face on to this...
> 
> View attachment 344844


points to the Liz truss meme thread 


shakes fist at sky**


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

Anyway, I'm sure I'd wished johnson a painful death this far into his premiership.  Only seems fair to wish her the same I suppose.


----------



## agricola (Sep 28, 2022)

andysays said:


> I just checked how old this thread was, and it appears it was started exactly twelve weeks ago, though it feels like longer.
> 
> We all knew Truss was going to be a disaster, but did anyone really imagine it would turn so disastrous so fucking quickly?



Having gone through this last season with Benitez, it really cannot be overemphasized how important it is to sack them quickly and then ride the post-sacking bounce to safety (whilst you still can).


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2022)

three days to go to the tory party conference.....if they can get there what with the trainstrikes this weekend


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2022)

I'd love to be sat in with Truss' speechwriter right now. Can you imagine.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 28, 2022)

Bet it's cancelled.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2022)

killer b said:


> I'd love to be sat in with Truss' speechwriter right now. Can you imagine.


itll be pure DOUBLE DOWN


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

killer b said:


> I'd love to be sat in with Truss' speechwriter right now. Can you imagine.








						The Worst Jobs in History - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2022)

Pouring over old margaret thatcher speeches i expect too
this ladies not for turning vibes


----------



## two sheds (Sep 28, 2022)

Hopefully she'll come out in a Tank Commander's uniform with goggles.


----------



## maomao (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, I'm sure I'd wished johnson a painful death this far into his premiership.  Only seems fair to wish her the same I suppose.


I have a standard painful death wish for all Tory MPs and parliamentary candidates just so I never get caught out at this point.


----------



## Sue (Sep 28, 2022)

andysays said:


> We all knew Truss was going to be a disaster, but did anyone really imagine it would turn so disastrous so fucking quickly?


Admittedly I don't know much about economics but I am surprised how quick and easy it seems to be to tank a major economy. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## andysays (Sep 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> Admittedly I don't know much about economics but I am surprised how quick and easy it seems to be to tank a major economy. 🤷‍♀️



And don't forget, she also killed the queen


----------



## maomao (Sep 28, 2022)

So will it blow over or are we really in a doom spiral? After a week more of this and Starmer on a 20 point lead could 36 (or whatever) Tories be tempted over for a parliamentary confidence vote and a GE or even a national unity government?


----------



## Sue (Sep 28, 2022)

andysays said:


> And don't forget, she also killed the queen


So you're saying she's not all bad..?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## JimW (Sep 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> Admittedly I don't know much about economics but I am surprised how quick and easy it seems to be to tank a major economy. 🤷‍♀️


Easier when it's all smoke and mirrors and far more reliant on financial services etc for "wealth creation" I think, same reason China is always on the brink of collapse but never does because it's full of people actually growing, building and making shit too.


----------



## Sue (Sep 28, 2022)

JimW said:


> Easier when it's all smoke and mirrors and far more reliant on financial services etc for "wealth creation" I think, same reason China is always on the brink of collapse but never does because it's full of people actually growing, building and making shit too.


That quote from The Wire comes to mind.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



Thats a point, does this budget need to be passed in the chamber?


----------



## maomao (Sep 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> That quote from The Wire comes to mind.


 "If Snotboogie always stole the money, why'd you let him play?"


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Thats a point, does this budget need to be passed in the chamber?


it does, yeah


----------



## agricola (Sep 28, 2022)

Sue said:


> That quote from The Wire comes to mind.


----------



## gosub (Sep 28, 2022)

killer b said:


> I'd love to be sat in with Truss' speechwriter right now. Can you imagine.


Try affording imported cheese now, you unpatriotic fuckers!


----------



## gosub (Sep 28, 2022)

JimW said:


> Easier when it's all smoke and mirrors and far more reliant on financial services etc for "wealth creation" I think, same reason China is always on the brink of collapse but never does because it's full of people actually growing, building and making shit too.


enjoy pork and rice while you can.


----------



## Sue (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## ska invita (Sep 28, 2022)

killer b said:


> it does, yeah


so presumably it wont pass, even with their majority
??


----------



## killer b (Sep 28, 2022)

ska invita said:


> so presumably it wont pass, even with their majority
> ??


Unlikely to make it to the vote in it's current form I'd say.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2022)

ska invita said:


> so presumably it wont pass, even with their majority
> ??



normally there would be no question - but who knows? Might not get to that stage as the threat of revolt means  Kwarting gets sacked and they "adjust" (reverse) the budget with a new chancellor and pretend it never happened (Bobby Ewing getting out of the shower style)


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 28, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Hopefully she'll come out in a Tank Commander's uniform with goggles.



To the tune of dancing queen


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 28, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> normally there would be no question - but who knows? Might not get to that stage as the threat of revolt means  Kwarting gets sacked and they "adjust" (reverse) the budget with a new chancellor and pretend it never happened (Bobby Ewing getting out of the shower style)



It's only a mini budget anyway, not a real one.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 28, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Hopefully she'll come out in a Tank Commander's uniform with goggles.


Announcing a 'Speical Operation' to rhe Isle of Mann.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 28, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The amusing thing is that when she finally emerges from the bunker, she'll still be forced to defend trickledown and that this mayhem is promoting enterprise.


She tweeted about russia about 15 mins ago. She also found time to congratulate italy's new far right leader yesterday. Strangly nothing about the economy


----------



## andysays (Sep 28, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's only a mini budget anyway, not a real one.


Can't wait to see what the reaction will be to the real one then


----------



## maomao (Sep 28, 2022)

killer b said:


> it does, yeah


That won't happen. They've already imploded.


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## JimW (Sep 28, 2022)

Reminiscent of a previous mini outing


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 28, 2022)

moochedit said:


> She tweeted about russia about 15 mins ago. She also found time to congratulate italy's new far right leader yesterday.



Get a tweet out Mary. Say something about Ukraine like Johnson. FFS.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 28, 2022)

killer b said:


> Unlikely to make it to the vote in it's current form I'd say.


Yep. The fallout of them losing a vote on what would be a de facto say on Truss’s entire strategy/premiership is way to much of a risk for them to take, surely?

But then again they’re all clearly fucking insane, so god knows.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 28, 2022)

but if they pass it, that will mean the tory MPs are all for tanking the economy.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)

two sheds said:


> but if they pass it, that will mean the tory MPs are all for tanking the economy.


delicious, innit?


----------



## quiet guy (Sep 28, 2022)

I think Truss is following the script of The New Statesman, Series 3, Episode 2 - The Party's Over
Tank everything, lose at the next election, slink back to the banckbenches and blame everything on Labour.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## Hollis (Sep 28, 2022)

I see BoJo is 6:1 to be next Tory leader - back by Christmas?


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 28, 2022)

Hollis said:


> I see BoJo is 6:1 to be next Tory leader - back by Christmas?


Can we see that happening


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 28, 2022)

Hollis said:


> I see BoJo is 6:1 to be next Tory leader - back by Christmas?


But Bojo is electoral kryptonite, and that is the main reason the tories defenestrated him. I'm not saying he won't be back, but it's not going to improve their lot.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 28, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Can we see that happening


Yes indeed. It has to be judged quite likely there will be another leadership contest in the near future. If Johnson decides to stand, he will surely be the favourite to win.


----------



## maomao (Sep 28, 2022)

Does he fancy being leader of the opposition?


----------



## Raheem (Sep 28, 2022)

maomao said:


> Does he fancy being leader of the opposition?


He won't be, though, will he?


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 28, 2022)

Hollis said:


> I see BoJo is 6:1 to be next Tory leader - back by Christmas?



id say he rather they lose the next election then he came come back as the foil to starmer

make the country love him after the mess Truss leaves the country in


she leave a shit in the number 10 desk rather than a note


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 28, 2022)

I only know one actual Tory party member, but his stories of the recent hustings he attended left no doubt that if boris made it to that stage of another leadership election he'd be back in.
They all think he was great and that was before this shitstorm, by now they probably regard him as 2 levels above jehovah


----------



## maomao (Sep 28, 2022)

Raheem said:


> He won't be, though, will he?


Soon enough.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 28, 2022)

maomao said:


> Soon enough.


When did a prime minister last go on to lead the opposition? They always have the option of not doing.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 28, 2022)

Liz is doing the "rounds" on BBC regional radio stations as below:


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 28, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Liz is doing the "rounds" on BBC regional radio stations as below:




That some pair of boots on her.


----------



## a_chap (Sep 28, 2022)

Raheem said:


> When did a prime minister last go on to lead the opposition? They always have the option of not doing.



Heath/Wilson.

Such short memories...


----------



## Wilf (Sep 28, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Liz is doing the "rounds" on BBC regional radio stations as below:



Partridge at 0808.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 28, 2022)

a_chap said:


> Heath/Wilson.
> 
> Such short memories...


No, that was my point.


----------



## a_chap (Sep 28, 2022)

Raheem said:


> No, that was my point.



No, that was _*my*_ point.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 28, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Liz is doing the "rounds" on BBC regional radio stations as below:




Well I'll say this for her, she can drive pretty fast.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 28, 2022)

Far-reaching, in-depth interviews


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 28, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Liz is doing the "rounds" on BBC regional radio stations as below:



Looks like a train timetable


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 28, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Looks like a train timetable


The front four coaches going to nowhere, the rear four to boredom


----------



## hipipol (Sep 28, 2022)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 29, 2022)

tory facebook page - not a happy place. Conservatives


----------



## Ming (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> View attachment 344937


At the risk of being a bit phrenological she looks evil.

edta It’s the blank soulless eyes (yes I know…skull bumps).


----------



## Raheem (Sep 29, 2022)

Ming said:


> At the risk of being a bit phrenological she looks evil.


She looks evil because you know who she is.


----------



## Ming (Sep 29, 2022)

Raheem said:


> She looks evil because you know who she is.


…fair point…


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 29, 2022)

During the leadership contest, when Truss said she wanted to 'hit the ground', everyone assumed she meant 'running' rather than flat on her face.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

Raheem said:


> She looks evil because you know who she is.


If she wasn't who she is she might not be evil.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 29, 2022)

This is all an awful nightmare isn’t it . I do hope to wake up soon and go for a morning dip in a warm tropical sea


----------



## Smangus (Sep 29, 2022)

Sounds like she's doubling down this morning 

Our tin eared leader


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

Smangus said:


> Sounds like she's doubling down this morning
> 
> Our tin eared leader


As soon as she opened her gob the £ sank and gilt interest rates edged up.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 29, 2022)

It’s all going really well isn’t it? 😬😬


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> This is all an awful nightmare isn’t it . I do hope to wake up soon and go for a morning dip in a warm tropical sea


Yeh her policies hasten the day the north sea will be tropical


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## Sue (Sep 29, 2022)

pinkmonkey said:


> It’s all going really well isn’t it? 😬😬


Nothing to see here, folks, according to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on R4 just now.


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 344952



Somehow the answer to all of these is Putin.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 29, 2022)

Thread by @sharonodea on Thread Reader App
					

@sharonodea: If @trussliz thought she’d get an easier ride by doing local radio this morning she underestimated them. This is not going well for her. “What it has done is it has made sure that people...…




					threadreaderapp.com


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 344952



The interview was on the Radio Kent breakfast show, ironically called 'The Wake Up Call', and the interviewer welcomes her to 'The Wake Up Call'.

I would have started with, 'welcome to your wake up call'.

The interviewer trashed her, no wonder she's avoiding the 'Today' programme on Radio 4.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 29, 2022)

Kin ell


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

Sue said:


> Nothing to see here, folks, according to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on R4 just now.


Nothing to spend more like


----------



## kabbes (Sep 29, 2022)

She had never actually been put under scrutiny before, has she?  She has no idea what it means to be on top of the job.


----------



## hipipol (Sep 29, 2022)

She reminds of a recruiter for some small provincial firm I met decades ago, looks the same, talks like the cork had never made it back to the bottle. The idiot in Gloucester was also a Thatcher cultist. I was there to advise on buying them, my advice? Dont do it. They were bust in a year. Unfortunately, this deranged fantasy being seems have the same skills simply writ large


----------



## ska invita (Sep 29, 2022)

They're benefit scroungers, living off multi billion Bank Of England handouts.  They know they can fuck about all they like and the BoE will come to the rescue.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 29, 2022)

Here is another one.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 29, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Here is another one.



Like minds!


----------



## kabbes (Sep 29, 2022)

Savaged by local radio DJs. Less savvy than Alan Partridge.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Kin ell



That is one of the most unbelievable interviews with a tory leader called Liz Truss i've ever heard.

In all seriousness I'm almost sympathetic, she is so far out of her depth. It's like watching a clip of a dog being swrpt away in a river and people forming human bridges to try and rescue it. In this case i hope they fail


----------



## maomao (Sep 29, 2022)

She'll have picked local radio in the hope that the Partridges of this world couldn't make her look stupid when in reality my seven year old could show her up.


----------



## Smangus (Sep 29, 2022)

She deserves all the shit exposure she gets, unbelievably wooden.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 29, 2022)

maomao said:


> She'll have picked local radio in the hope that the Partridges of this world couldn't make her look stupid when in reality my seven year old could show her up.



TBF, I think your little Tommy could too.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 29, 2022)

they all deserve what they get from this stage

its not our fault  it all putins, the imf , the bankers and the bank of england

hmm was not going on before your mini budget


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> She had never actually been put under scrutiny before, has she?  She has no idea what it means to be on top of the job.



More vigours questioning in 20 minutes than the likes of Kussenberg managed in years.

State of political reporting in this country is a farce


----------



## maomao (Sep 29, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBF, I think your little Tommy could too.


He knows Boris Johnson is a twat and will announce it if Johnson's mug comes on the telly. I'm not sure if it's going to be worth teaching him to say the same about Truss because I'm not convinced she'll be there in a week.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

Smangus said:


> She deserves all the shit exposure she gets, unbelievably wooden.


Thing is, Johnson could have gotten away with this. She, perhaps thinking she has the same weird media alchemy, absolutely can't and is sinking like the price of a complete Lost dvd box set in CEX


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> More vigours questioning in 20 minutes than the likes of Kussenberg managed in years.
> 
> State of political reporting in this country is a farce


That's exactly the consensus on Twitter at the moment. BBC local radio is underrated and under-valued, and moments like this remind people that journalists cut their teeth and sharpen their skills working "on the doorstep" away from any Westminster bubble. 

I used BBC Sounds to follow all eight and it was very entertaining.


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 29, 2022)

From those interviews, she's not fit to run a Village Hall Committee. I know in a lot of cases that is hyperbole, but in this case, it's true.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> That's exactly the consensus on Twitter at the moment. BBC local radio is underrated and under-valued, and moments like this remind people that journalists cut their teeth and sharpen their skills working "on the doorstep" away from any Westminster bubble.
> 
> I used BBC Sounds to follow all eight and it was very entertaining.


Cue more cuts to BBC local radio.


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 29, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



James Hanson: "Your Chancellor opened up the stable door and spooked the horses so much you can almost see the economy being dragged behind them"
Sir, your talents are wasted at BBC Radio Bristol 😍


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Cue more cuts to BBC local radio.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Looks like doing the rounds of the local stations expecting softball questions is another massive unforced error then.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 29, 2022)

Loving the #Trussterfuck hash tag.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 29, 2022)

So she said something was a matter for the bank of england. Did i imagine it or wasn't she in favour of ending the BOE's independence? ( Putting Truss and kwarteng in charge of the BOE sounds like a really good idea   )


----------



## kebabking (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

And only going ahead with fracking when there's local support is another lie.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Savaged by local radio DJs. Less savvy than Alan Partridge.



The Scum, The Daily Torygraph, The Shitator and most other barbarian shithole rags seem to be slamming the barbaric Truss clique at the moment too. Not sure if the Daily Sieg Heil and the Daily Excrement are still doing their best to make "Comical Ali" look like Ida B. Wells but its looking like she has lost hegemony even amongst the Gammonoracry.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> More vigours questioning in 20 minutes than the likes of Kussenberg managed in years.
> 
> State of political reporting in this country is a farce



Which just makes all these 'Partridge' snarks look pathetic. I've listened to a couple of these local BBC interviews and they've skewered Truss brilliantly and held her to account which is what good journalists should do.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> And only going ahead with fracking when there's local support is another lie.


If Chris Cornelius, ex boss of Caudrilla says it’s a costly waste of time, then I’m sure other drill co’s will avoid it like the plague.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2022)

I had a bet with my mum back in June that there's going to be an election where the Tories lose their majority by the end of this year.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Looks like doing the rounds of the local stations expecting softball questions is another massive unforced error then.



The real error is that Truss doesn't believe any of it. This was inevitable, her entire career has been built on drifting along with the political wind. Now she's heading up a government of the insurgent right and while she knows the words she doesn't understand the tune. She's not got the political savvy to put the shovel down or even to understand why she's holding it. 

The tories will either need to dump her and go for a true believer like Braverman or Badenoch or cede to the opposition and beg Sunak to come back.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Which just makes all these 'Partridge' snarks look pathetic. I've listened to a couple of these local BBC interviews and they've skewered Truss brilliantly and held her to account which is what good journalists should do.



This dude flawed her twice in 35 seconds


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 29, 2022)

moochedit said:


> So she said something was a matter for the bank of england. Did i imagine it or wasn't she in favour of ending the BOE's independence? ( Putting Truss and kwarteng in charge of the BOE sounds like a really good idea   )


Yep, back in August.









						Tory Leadership contest 2022
					






					www.urban75.net


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I had a bet with my mum back in June that there's going to be an election where the Tories lose their majority by the end of this year.


So far looking good.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> So far looking good.


is it though? how is this election going to come about?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)

Truss got totally fracked here:



Blunder Truss
Trussia
Trussterfuck
Kwarmikwasi
Trussolini

Any other good ones I missed out?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> And only going ahead with fracking when there's local support is another lie.


You can tell when the govt tells the truth, they're silent


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

She seems obsessed by people making bigger pies


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> is it though? how is this election going to come about?


I don’t know tbh, truss's resignation?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> is it though? how is this election going to come about?


Well when the government fucks up really badly the prime minister talks to the people in parliament and they all decide it's time to talk to the electorate and the pm goes to the king and he agrees they've fucked up too


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 29, 2022)

reely fancies a pie now


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> She seems obsessed by people making bigger pies


There is only one pie for her and it's humble


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

Whoever put her up to these interviews needs a nobel prize


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 29, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> There is only one pie for her and it's humble


she doesnt like that type and never would eat it
she knows what side her bread is buttered


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 29, 2022)

She learns about 10 stock answers and practices them before the interview


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I don’t know tbh, truss's resignation?


we'll just get another tory prime minister, who won't go to the country. The next general election will be in 2024, at the last possible moment


----------



## moochedit (Sep 29, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> I don’t know tbh, truss's resignation?


Not impossible that might happen but i think that would just lead to another tory leaders contest. They have a 70-80 ish majority and no need to call an election until Dec 2024. They must know calling it now would be suicide.


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> She seems obsessed by people making bigger pies


Copying that from George W Bush:


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

You probably do want to lie about this Liz


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 29, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Truss got totally fracked here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This one:


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)

James Hanson of BBC Bristol shows exactly how Truss should be treated, as a joke. This is the level of irreverence many of our clown politicians should be treated with, but especially this criminal fuckwit


----------



## gosub (Sep 29, 2022)

Liz Truss announces plans to return to the feudal system
					

Comedy Prime Minister Liz Truss has announced plans to build on her recent economic reforms and return Britain to the feudal system last seen in the middle-ages.




					newsthump.com


----------



## bellaozzydog (Sep 29, 2022)

Her people thought local radio was broadcasting from the bunker stuff

All it’s shown is when simple straightforward questions are asked she has no answers 

Pound to a pinch of shit she’ll get corona shortly


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The Scum, The Daily Torygraph, The Shitator and most other barbarian shithole rags seem to be slamming the barbaric Truss clique at the moment too. Not sure if the Daily Sieg Heil and the Daily Excrement are still doing their best to make "Comical Ali" look like Ida B. Wells but its looking like she has lost hegemony even amongst the Gammonoracry.


I can only bring myself to look at the front pages of those rags but I agree with your list. The Mail tried to ask on its front page 'were risky pension trades behind chaos?' and although the Express didnt really try to hide the turmoil, they still tried to use a slight dollop of positive language via 'to protect pensions' in their main headline.

The fucking Sun used plenty of negative language via 'Kwasi's disaster-hit mini budget', 'squeaky fund time' and 'the day £1,000,000,000,000 was nearly wiped off our pensions'.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)

The answer to this doesn't really matter does it?


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2022)

A smooth transition from the 2nd Elizabethan era to the Liz a beaten era.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 29, 2022)

Once again, an earlier post of mine seems apposite



kabbes said:


> It would be properly hilarious if they made Liz Truss prime minister.  For about 2 minutes, before the crashing realisation that Liz Truss is now prime minister.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Once again, an earlier post of mine seems apposite


It seems to fluctuate rapidly between hilarious and horrific. If there was some way of running a dynamo off this movement we'd have the country's energy problems solved overnight.


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 29, 2022)

1000% Team Truss is currently suggesting a deftly delivered Pork Markets/This. is. a. disgrace. gag to save her conference speech.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

kebabking said:


> View attachment 344969


That's an entry level skipfire, she's now a _Jedi Master, Secret Room, Hall of Fame, Pound for Pound Champion Skipfire._


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> It seems to fluctuate rapidly between hilarious and horrific. If there was some way of running a dynamo off this movement we'd have the country's energy problems solved overnight.



Many film critics have observed that there's often quite a fine line between horror and comedy.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Once again, an earlier post of mine seems apposite


 ... oh yeah....


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> That's an entry level skipfire, she's now a _Jedi Master, Secret Room, Hall of Fame, Pound for Pound Champion Skipfire._



At least at Arthur's skips 2020 levels (I completely don't remember this, despite being just down the road - covid I guess).


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 29, 2022)

A compilation of this morning's interviews:


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Once again, an earlier post of mine seems apposite


_Not wishing to bang my own trumpet/blow my own drum, but...    _


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Which just makes all these 'Partridge' snarks look pathetic. I've listened to a couple of these local BBC interviews and they've skewered Truss brilliantly and held her to account which is what good journalists should do.


Flush out the closet Masonites


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 29, 2022)

I dont suppose many tories do Irony


----------



## moochedit (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Looks like doing the rounds of the local stations expecting softball questions is another massive unforced error then.


Local journalists have ambitions to be national journalists. This was their big chance. Course they weren't gonna softball


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 29, 2022)

Corbyn would have been worse is the dumbest defence going. Maybe he would or maybe he wouldn't but he never got to be PM. Saying that the current shitshow is OK because we (might) have dodged a worst shitshow is the ultimate in whataboutery.


----------



## izz (Sep 29, 2022)

Completely loving the hard time she's been shown on these shows, she's obviously never had to defend the indefensible before and hasn't the skills but fair play to the local radio presenters for giving her a drubbing. Also, I think it shows she has fuck all respect from the people around her as they would have prepped her better. 

It's like watching a toddler cross a motorway, lots of noisy mayhem, multiple pile-ups and deaths and she'll reach the other side, miraculously unscathed and proud of herself.


----------



## izz (Sep 29, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Corbyn would have been worse is the dumbest defence going. Maybe he would or maybe he wouldn't but he never got to be PM. Saying that the current shitshow is OK because we (might) have dodged a worst shitshow is the ultimate in whataboutery.


Absolutely concur with this, but it shows that they just have fuck all else in the way of a working argument. Oy vey !


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

Of course, ultimately, the people who are really responsible for this disaster are those who fanned the flames of Boris Johnson's demise. Unless they genuinely had faith in the tory party membership to choose a new and better prime minister.

Quite a few parallels with the Leave vote.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

And Corbyn would have borrowed to improve infrastructure and give money back to people rather than just the tories' rich mates.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Of course, ultimately, the people who are really responsible for this disaster are those who fanned the flames of Boris Johnson's demise. Unless they genuinely had faith in the tory party membership to choose a new and better prime minister.
> 
> Quite a few parallels with the Leave vote.


That'll be Johnson himself, then?


----------



## izz (Sep 29, 2022)

Johnson had to go because he was an incompetent embarrassment, just like his successor.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Of course, ultimately, the people who are really responsible for this disaster are those who fanned the flames of Boris Johnson's demise. Unless they genuinely had faith in the tory party membership to choose a new and better prime minister.
> 
> Quite a few parallels with the Leave vote.


I actually thought the one thing Tory MPs would definitely do was not put Liz Truss through to the second round because it would be fucking suicidal.


----------



## contadino (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Of course, ultimately, the people who are really responsible for this disaster are those who fanned the flames of Boris Johnson's demise. Unless they genuinely had faith in the tory party membership to choose a new and better prime minister.
> 
> Quite a few parallels with the Leave vote.


Fuck off. She didn't get given the job by the Tory MPs. This is on the party membership.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

contadino said:


> Fuck off. She didn't get given the job by the Tory MPs. This is on the party membership.



None are free from sin.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

contadino said:


> Fuck off. She didn't get given the job by the Tory MPs. This is on the party membership.


Yes, tory membership is what I said. But who handed the tory membership the power to choose the next PM? It was anyone who took part in taking Boris Johnson down.


----------



## gosub (Sep 29, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> 1000% Team Truss is currently suggesting a deftly delivered Pork Markets/This. is. a. disgrace. gag to save her conference speech.


Pork markets ain't a joke...What the Chinese did last time swine flu was....

PS China still seems to be taking similar approach to vetinary diseasesilments as it did/does to human ones.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Of course, ultimately, the people who are really responsible for this disaster are those who fanned the flames of Boris Johnson's demise. Unless they genuinely had faith in the tory party membership to choose a new and better prime minister.
> 
> Quite a few parallels with the Leave vote.


Say _what_?  The people responsible for the actions of an ideological nutcase prime minister are the ones who opposed the last, populist, shitbag of a prime minister (who was responsible for tens of thousands of surplus deaths)?  Sounds like we should give up all this protesting and stuff and just hope our leaders are of the 'only a bit nasty' variety.

And extra points for binging Brexit into it.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Yes, tory membership is what I said. But who handed the tory membership the power to choose the next PM? It was anyone who took part in taking Boris Johnson down.


I know you are trying your best, but really...


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

No I think we should all accept some responsibility. If it hadn't been for the skewering of Johnson on urban he'd have been there still.


----------



## Supine (Sep 29, 2022)

contadino said:


> Fuck off. She didn't get given the job by the Tory MPs. This is on the party membership.



She was one of their two choices. Mp’s are partly to blame. Not that they had a wealth of high quality candidates to choose from.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Which just makes all these 'Partridge' snarks look pathetic. I've listened to a couple of these local BBC interviews and they've skewered Truss brilliantly and held her to account which is what good journalists should do.



It's a classic demonstration of Chomsky's observations in _Manufacturing Consent_. The senior political class is generally insulated from the toughest questioning _because_ they only tend to show up on the biggest shows. Andrew Marr's interviews for example tread a line between sounding combative and pulling punches so he can continue having a stream of high-level, high prestige interviewees. Fail to toe that line and you end up, as Piers Morgan did, with no-one wanting to show up on your programme to get hammered.

Regional shows don't have this problem because they're not expected to have the top brass on very often, or at all. Their interviewees are mostly backbenchers who actively need to be on one of the rare outlets that can directly reach constituents. Therefore they get more from showing their interviewing mettle than from playing nice. Add this to the arrogant dismissal of "bumpkins from the regions" that infects almost all ministers of the crown after years of power broking in That London and it's a good recipe for this to happen. They expect they can outsmart stupid and overawed hacks, whereas in fact they're often unprepared to deal with angry and direct journalists.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Yes, tory membership is what I said. But who handed the tory membership the power to choose the next PM? It was anyone who took part in taking Boris Johnson down.


You are parroting the very words that boris johnson himself will have been coming out with over the last week.  Well done!


----------



## izz (Sep 29, 2022)

Supine said:


> She was one of their two choices. Mp’s are partly to blame. Not that they had a wealth of high quality candidates to choose from.


'Zackly this, there was a brilliant quote from the Economist about how the Tories had to choose between someone that couldn't find her way out of a conference room and a chap that had trouble using his bank card at a filling station.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

Only just catching up on this. It's hilarious. Her press team must actually hate her to put her on local radio to attempt to explain why she's decided to bring down the UK economy. Toe curling.


----------



## contadino (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Yes, tory membership is what I said. But who handed the tory membership the power to choose the next PM? It was anyone who took part in taking Boris Johnson down.


No you didn't. The party membership weren't the ones who got shot of Johnson, it was tory mps (and only when there really was no alternative but to do something.)

By all means be a tory apologist - it's funny - but at least try to have a coherent story.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

dp


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Sounds like we should give up all this protesting and stuff and just hope our leaders are of the 'only a bit nasty' variety.



Nah, just make some pragmatic decisions based on reality, which often means choosing the least bad of a set of bad options.

Ignoring reality and indulging one's own ideological fantasies is what leads to Lexit thinking and the idea that it's best not to vote at all in general elections because all the parties are the same.

No need to give up any protesting stuff.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> pragmatic decisions based on reality


The rhetorical lodestone and demonstrable nonsense-in-practice of the Tory party in a nutshell. "I'm making a pragmatic decision based on reality" says the Tory, as they drill another hole in the ship's hull.


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## gosub (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Only just catching up on this. It's hilarious. Her press team must actually hate her to put her on local radio to attempt to explain why she's decided to bring down the UK economy. Toe curling.


Sounds like it...can spin it as don't worry it's provincial, but they know darn well the lobby is the lobby and if they overstep the mark then they are lobby journalists no more. What's a local radio journalist got to lose? Only the chance of missing the soundbite that could progress their career


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Nah, just make some pragmatic decisions based on reality, which often means choosing the least bad of a set of bad options.
> 
> Ignoring reality and indulging one's own ideological fantasies is what leads to Lexit thinking and the idea that it's best not to vote at all in general elections because all the parties are the same.
> 
> No need to give up any protesting stuff.


How does this work then, if we stick to the specifics of johnson's demise?  Protest about the policy stuff but don't say a word about the parties and corruption?  The very stuff that did for johnson was the same stuff that has trashed the tory brand, so much so that even a cardboard cutout Labour leader is ahead in the polls.


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## Raheem (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Only just catching up on this. It's hilarious. Her press team must actually hate her to put her on local radio to attempt to explain why she's decided to bring down the UK economy. Toe curling.


She had to do something other than pretending she's forgotten she's prime minister, and I expect she looks to knackered to go on TV. Which would have left them with no good options, really


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## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

I reckon truss is a putin bot, put in place many years ago to sabotage the UK in event of just the sort of situation we now face


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## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

Raheem said:


> SI expect she looks to knackered to go on TV.


She should go on This Morning with Holly and Phil, they could all have a giggle comparing the week they've had.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)




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## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Nah, just make some pragmatic decisions based on reality, which often means choosing the least bad of a set of bad options.
> 
> Ignoring reality and indulging one's own ideological fantasies is what leads to Lexit thinking and the idea that it's best not to vote at all in general elections because all the parties are the same.
> 
> No need to give up any protesting stuff.




Protests will continue until cunts improve


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## Bingoman (Sep 29, 2022)

Just listened to some snippets of her radio interviews, blimey not good


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## gosub (Sep 29, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


>



could be morse code


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## Part 2 (Sep 29, 2022)

Raheem said:


> She had to do something other than pretending she's forgotten she's prime minister, and I expect she looks to knackered to go on TV. Which would have left them with no good options, really



Fuck knows what she must've looked like struggling to respond by the later interviews. It actually sounds like she was laughing on radio Tees.


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## Storm Fox (Sep 29, 2022)

Even Dan Snow is taking the piss.


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## Bingoman (Sep 29, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Fuck knows what she must've looked like struggling to respond by the later interviews. It actually sounds like she was laughing on radio Tees.


I love to see her conference speech next week, it would be painful to watch I think


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 29, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Even Dan Snow is taking the piss.




At least King John had some real problems to deal with rather than just his own fuckups.


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## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

It really is quite a massive achievement to make Boris Johnson look like a safe pair of hands


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## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

aha - apparently the local media round is an annual thing the prime minister does before conference each year rather than a rake-standing exercise by team truss.


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## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

Parliamentary democracy ain't exactly my thing, but this is a good example how it can deliver ideological leaders who are lined up with just about nobody in the country.  In their attempt at pandering to people with wealth, they've alienated just about everyone.  The beauty of it is, that not all the rises in mortgage payments are due to the mini-budget, but people will now see it as the fault of Kwarteng/Truss.  Well, beauty, yeah, but also a further tidal wave of shit for all kinds of people who have been struggling on multiple fronts already.


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## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

I mean obvious she stood on every rake laid out in front of her once she was on the round, but the booking of the interviews themselves weren't in error


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## Part 2 (Sep 29, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Fuck knows what she must've looked like struggling to respond by the later interviews. It actually sounds like she was laughing on radio Tees.



Blimey, by Bristol she* is* laughing.


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## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> aha - apparently the local media round is an annual thing the prime minister does before conference each year rather than a rake-standing exercise by team truss.


I heard this morning they used to do it on the very eve of the conference. But it was this that fucked Thersa May's voice t'other year, which is why they do it a few days before.  To be fair though, Truss didn't put too much strain on her voice today, with more silences than the combined plays of Becket and Pinter.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 29, 2022)

Even if it's a tradition she could have chosen not to do them couldn't she. She's already breaking with other traditions like not smashing the entire economy to bits in your second week in charge so I'm sure she could get away with swerving Radio Leeds.


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## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Blimey, by Bristol she* is* laughing.



It’s panic and despair.

I don’t like to use the  term hysteria because it’s loaded with sexist history against women in authority and women in general but it’s the fury of the onslaught has clearly punched out of anxiety and into the land of giggles and smiles because she’s so out of depth


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## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Far-reaching, in-depth interviews


that aged well


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## Sue (Sep 29, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I love to see her conference speech next week, it would be painful to watch I think


What, giving a scripted performance as opposed to answering difficult questions? Won't be anywhere near as painful/entertaining.

(I was going to mention that she'd be in front of a friendly audience too but...)


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## prunus (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> I mean obvious she stood on every rake laid out in front of her once she was on the round, but the booking of the interviews themselves weren't in error



Has anyone done a gif of sideshow bob and the rakes with Truss’s face on? I don’t have the skills. Thanks in advance.


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## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

I wouldn't be surprised if she was pelted with rotten fruit by her own side by next week tbh


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## Smokeandsteam (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Parliamentary democracy ain't exactly my thing, but this is a good example how it can deliver ideological leaders who are lined up with just about nobody in the country.  In their attempt at pandering to people with wealth, they've alienated just about everyone.


Truss was made PM by less than 60% of the Tory membership voting for her. She has been elected by no-one

As such she has no mandate whatsoever for the mini-budget. As such:

a) labour should be demanding that she resign or call an election immediately and
b) Tory MPs who want rid of her need do no more than write to the 1922 committee highlighting the fact that Truss has torn up the the key manifesto commitments that they were elected on.

It’s interesting that the political class so obsessed with constitutional and ethics a few months ago don’t seem to have noted that here we have an unelected leader who almost brought the economy to the point of near total collapse yesterday.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

I love this guy. Always the best part of PMQ's on a weekly basis.



> SNP says 'reckless, clueless' Truss failed to provide reassurance with 'car crash interviews'​The SNP also says Liz Truss’s morning interviews have made the case for a recall of parliament even stronger. In a statement *Ian Blackford*, the SNP leader at Westminster, said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 29, 2022)




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## Storm Fox (Sep 29, 2022)

Sue said:


> What, giving a scripted performance as opposed to answering difficult questions? Won't be anywhere near as painful/entertaining.
> 
> (I was going to mention that she'd be in front of a friendly audience too but...)


I hope this post ages really badly


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Truss was made PM by less than 60% of the Tory membership voting for her. She has been elected by no-one
> 
> As such she has no mandate whatsoever for the mini-budget. As such:
> 
> ...


It's a field full of open goals for the left at the moment, a real chance for all kinds of groups and grievances to coalesce.  Not in some mushy cross class mishmash, though that's what Labour will see it as, in as much as they articulate the word class at all. No, more an opportunity to build some kind of real movement.  Whether that happens and the rest is for another thread, but there's a real sense the tories are, by their actions, opening up the public realm, to the point where all that anger might have an outlet.


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> How does this work then, if we stick to the specifics of johnson's demise?  Protest about the policy stuff but don't say a word about the parties and corruption?


Depends what your strategy/aim is. Is it to get a labour government, or at least a non-tory government, in at the next election?


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## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's a field full of open goals for the left at the moment, a real chance for all kinds of groups and grievances to coalesce.  Not in some mushy cross class mishmash, though that's what Labour will see it as, in as much as they articulate the word class at all. No, more an opportunity to build some kind of real movement.  Whether that happens and the rest is for another thread, but there's a real sense the tories are, by their actions, opening up the public realm, to the point where all that anger might have an outlet.


There's a 'day of action' this weekend. It's not really clear to me what the action they're proposing we do is, other than listen to some trade union tops talking over a tannoy in a rain-soaked park, but I'm going to go along with an open mind.


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## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

Tasty little (ex)blue-on-blue grief to demoralise the extremists even more...


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## Smokeandsteam (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's a field full of open goals for the left at the moment, a real chance for all kinds of groups and grievances to coalesce.  Not in some mushy cross class mishmash, though that's what Labour will see it as, in as much as they articulate the word class at all. No, more an opportunity to build some kind of real movement.  Whether that happens and the rest is for another thread, but there's a real sense the tories are, by their actions, opening up the public realm, to the point where all that anger might have an outlet.



Definitely. This is one of those occasions where the veil slips and people see capitalism in its naked form. Each attempt to rectify the error made simply reveals more of the parasite. 

That’s why I think there will be an intervention: either Truss will be forced to reverse or she’ll be toppled.


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## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Definitely. This is one of those occasions where the veil slips and people see capitalism in its naked form. Each attempt to rectify the error made simply reveals more of the parasite.
> 
> That’s why I think there will be an intervention: either Truss will be forced to reverse or she’ll be toppled.


I guess the former, and most likely through the whips being made aware that, if pushed through, she'd face an embarrassing rebellion of the Sunakites.


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## Smokeandsteam (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> There's a 'day of action' this weekend. It's not really clear to me what the action they're proposing we do is, other than listen to some trade union tops talking over a tannoy in a rain-soaked park, but I'm going to go along with an open mind.



You mean the day of action to coincide with co-ordinated strikes? You could go and visit a picket line? Be a start…


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Definitely. This is one of those occasions where the veil slips and people see capitalism in its naked form. Each attempt to rectify the error made simply reveals more of the parasite.


It's only a tiny number of people in the UK, of a particular type, that are looking at this and thinking things like "ooh, here is capitalism in its naked form".


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## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> You mean the day of action to coincide with co-ordinated strikes? You could go and visit a picket line? Be a start…


Oh ok, all the publicity says to go to Piccadilly Gardens so I was going to do that.


----------



## magneze (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's only a tiny number of people in the UK, of a particular type, that are looking at this and thinking things like "ooh, here is capitalism in its naked form".


Probably more like "err, hang on ... is this how it's meant to work?"


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## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's only a tiny number of people in the UK, of a particular type, that are looking at this and thinking things like "ooh, here is capitalism in its naked form".


Yes, standards of education have certainly declined under the last 46 years of neoliberal governance.


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## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Definitely. This is one of those occasions where the veil slips and people see capitalism in its naked form. Each attempt to rectify the error made simply reveals more of the parasite.
> 
> That’s why I think there will be an intervention: either Truss will be forced to reverse or she’ll be toppled.


In terms of political economy I think you could be right, don't fuck with the markets, don't create situations that bring opposition forces together to the point where organised labour becomes a player again. But in terms of politics, it's hard to see the tory party going for another leader in the short term - and in the medium terms it's probably too late as the election starts to loom.  They are pretty much in the logic of Man United with their post-Ferguson revolving door of managers.  You get another shit one, but you have to first see if they can put it right and even when it's obvious that they can't, you have to find some kind of 'process' to get them out.  And not look like a much of divs for all that. She's David Moyes, by the way. The 'hapless' David Moyes.


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## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Oh ok, all the publicity says to go to Piccadilly Gardens so I was going to do that.


Me too.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> In terms of political economy I think you could be right, don't fuck with the markets, don't create situations that bring opposition forces together to the point where organised labour becomes a player again. But in terms of politics, it's hard to see the tory party going for another leader in the short term - and in the medium terms it's probably too late as the election starts to loom.  They are pretty much in the logic of Man United with their post-Ferguson revolving door of managers.  You get another shit one, but you have to first see if they can put it right and even when it's obvious that they can't, you have to find some kind of 'process' to get them out.  And not look like a much of divs for all that. She's David Moyes, by the way. The 'hapless' David Moyes.


My god, I've read some things about Moyes, but really? That bad?


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> My god, I've read some things about Moyes, but really? That bad?


Okay, one for our older readers, _Wilf McGuinness_.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

Anyway, I've got to work for a bit. Let's see what she's done by 5.00, invaded Belgium?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yes, standards of education have certainly declined under the last 46 years of neoliberal governance.


Whatever - if people are alarmed by what's happening at the moment then I think it's silly to believe that it's going to prompt them suddenly to identify themselves as anti-capitalist or similar. More likely that they will be inclined to vote cautiously next time round and go for a "safe pair of hands" which of course is what the Conservative party has tended to appeal to traditionally.

Already on this thread we're seeing the same kind of hand-wavy predictions that this might be "the moment" that appear on urban75 after any kind of crisis or shake-up. We read about how this might be another "opportunity to build a movement blah blah class something" and everyone goes off to attend some meetings with fellow politics enthusiasts.

Just like Brexit.


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 29, 2022)

I'm listening to the Newscast and my brain can't get around the fact she's the PM. 
I'm only at the 'Leeds' interview, but she just sounds like a Junior MP who's been parachuted in with loose outline of what to say and when to say it, and anything that isn't on that list has her immediately flummoxed. 

One way or another, she's had months to prepare for this, and she/they've fucked it. In the long term, it's boss, because the Tories are fucked for years now. 
But short term, I've got my mortgage to pay, a son to feed, and a job to keep. 
She's a fucking cunt.


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Whatever - if people are alarmed by what's happening at the moment then I think it's silly to believe that it's going to prompt them suddenly to identify themselves as anti-capitalist or similar. More likely that they will be inclined to vote cautiously next time round and go for a* "safe pair of hands" which of course is what the Conservative party has tended to appeal to traditionally.*
> 
> Already on this thread we're seeing the same kind of hand-wavy predictions that this might be "the moment" that appear on urban75 after any kind of crisis or shake-up. We read about how this might be another "opportunity to build a movement blah blah class something" and everyone goes off to attend some meetings with fellow politics enthusiasts.
> 
> Just like Brexit.


Led by who? Johnson got rid of most of the sensible one-nation tories and only promoted sycophants. Truss is worse. They are a joke at the moment.


----------



## story (Sep 29, 2022)

Meanwhile....










						Tory donor makes huge profits from falling pound
					

‘It’s been helpful’, says Crispin Odey on his bets against Sterling amid market turmoil




					www.independent.co.uk
				










						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com


----------



## story (Sep 29, 2022)

C&P from the torygraph link above

Crispin Odey and other hedge fund managers profit from sterling tumble​Computer-driven traders have also gained from strong selling in UK currency​September 27 2022






Crispin Odey believes the pound could fall to parity against the dollar: ‘I don’t think you can start getting bullish on sterling’ © FT montage/Bloomberg
Hedge fund managers including Crispin Odey are among those profiting from steep falls in sterling and UK government bonds as investors take flight on fears over the sustainability of the country’s public finances.

The founder of Odey Asset Management is one of several leading hedge fund managers who believe the pound could now fall to parity against the dollar or below. Both his group and other trend-following hedge funds have been running short positions — bets on falling prices — against the pound and longer-dated gilts for some time.

Odey’s bets — based on the belief that the market had badly underestimated how long inflation could stay high — are now paying off handsomely. His flagship European hedge fund is now up about 145 per cent this year.

“I don’t think you can start getting bullish on sterling,” Odey told the Financial Times, expressing his belief the pound could hit one-to-one against the dollar. “It’s so close” to parity, he said.

The adverse market reaction to chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng’s tax-cutting, high borrowing plan last week has hit both sterling and the gilts market, as investors fretted about its impact on inflation, government debt and Britain’s hefty current account deficit. 

After the chancellor — who at one stage worked for Odey — suggested at the weekend there could be further tax cuts, sterling hit an all-time low of $1.035 on Monday.

“It’s been helpful,” Odey said about his short sterling position. “It [sterling and gilts] is all part of the same story of higher inflation . . . The market has been a long way from where inflation was.”





The pound is now down more than 4 per cent against the dollar since Kwarteng’s fiscal plan on Friday, while UK gilts are on course to post their worst month on record dating back to 1979. 

Odey described his bets against gilts as “the gifts that keep on giving”.

The fund manager has donated significant sums of money to Conservative causes over the past decade. He has given more than £800,000 to pro-Brexit campaigns, including £32,000 to the UK Independence party when it was led by Nigel Farage.

Odey donated £10,000 to Boris Johnson’s Tory leadership campaign in 2019, but was criticised by Labour politicians after it was revealed that he was betting against the pound. He told the FT that suggestions he donated to the campaign to profit from a potential chaotic Brexit outcome were “crap”.

Many of the bearish bets on sterling have also been run by so-called managed futures hedge funds, a sector running $390bn, according to data provider HFR. These strategies try to latch on to trends in global markets.

The pound’s fall from more than $1.40 in June last year has provided a strong trend for funds to follow. Funds have held a short sterling position for well over a year, according to Société Générale’s Trend Indicator, which models the positions of such funds, and in 2022 it has been the second most profitable bet for them, behind only wagers against Japan’s currency. 

Rotterdam-based Transtrend, which manages $6.3bn in assets, is shorting sterling against several other currencies, and also betting against British fixed income instruments. Such bets together have been a big contributor to the fund’s gains of 7.4 per cent this month, while so far this year the fund is up about 30 per cent.

Many in the market are bracing themselves for further falls.

“Buying sterling here is like licking honey from the razor’s edge,” said Hugh Hendry, founder of Eclectica Asset Management, which wound down its hedge fund in 2017. “It would be remiss of the foreign exchange community not to allow for [sterling] to trade back at parity with the dollar and possibly trade below that level in the short term.”

Pilar Gomez-Bravo, director of fixed income for Europe at MFS Investment Management, has been shorting the pound for some time and increased this bet to the maximum allowed in her portfolio following Kwarteng’s announcement last week.

She believes the pound could fall to parity with the dollar “and keep going unless there is a policy response” from the Bank of England or the government, although she added that she expected such a response to come.

Odey said he expected the pound to “bounce around now” and that both sterling and gilts were getting closer to the point at which being short was no longer attractive. He said his bet against the pound was not magnified by using debt and had been bigger in the past.

Odey said he did not have a trading advantage because Kwarteng previously worked as a consultant to Odey Asset Management.

“There’s a mad idea that one’s behind every twist and turn,” said Odey. “All I can do is catch the wind now and again.”

_Additional reporting by Sebastian Payne in Liverpool_


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 29, 2022)

I know it’s ripe for piss takery but fucking hell, this goes beyond funny. They are in control of the country and doing whatever they want


----------



## tommers (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> In terms of political economy I think you could be right, don't fuck with the markets, don't create situations that bring opposition forces together to the point where organised labour becomes a player again. But in terms of politics, it's hard to see the tory party going for another leader in the short term - and in the medium terms it's probably too late as the election starts to loom.  They are pretty much in the logic of Man United with their post-Ferguson revolving door of managers.  You get another shit one, but you have to first see if they can put it right and even when it's obvious that they can't, you have to find some kind of 'process' to get them out.  And not look like a much of divs for all that. She's David Moyes, by the way. The 'hapless' David Moyes.


She needs to find some mid table country and get them back into Europe.  Oh, hang on.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Led by who? Johnson got rid of most of the sensible one-nation tories and only promoted sycophants. Truss is worse. They are a joke at the moment.


Well, if they haven't come up with anyone, and it kind of looks like they may not, then perhaps there's a good chunk of electorate who would go for Kier Starmer.

But that wouldn't be an indication of loads of people fundamentally changing their view of politics or what capitalism is, or anything like that.

I don't see how this mess is going to swing centre-ish people to the left, for example.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Well, if they haven't come up with anyone, and it kind of looks like they may not, then perhaps there's a good chunk of electorate who would go for Kier Starmer.
> 
> But that wouldn't be an indication of loads of people fundamentally changing their view of politics or what capitalism is, or anything like that.
> 
> I don't see how this mess is going to swing centre-ish people to the left, for example.



You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy?  How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 29, 2022)

You don't see how the very public seppuku of neoliberal dogma might discourage people from embracing the political wing which conceived, implemented and associated with it for the last 40+ years?

The question is not whether people will change their views, it's how. The far-right is, predictably, cleaning up by embracing a belligerent retreat into jingoism in the absence of a coherent/confident left alternative, but they will also be fucking things up in short order – the opportunity very much is there for the left, should it ever get its act together. The problem is atm it doesn't seem to be able to, so how to fix that is the debate to be had. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're equipped for it, teuchter.


----------



## xenon (Sep 29, 2022)

I'm worried she'll again say something fuckwitted to look hard on the international front by way of bolstering her leadership, at this critical point in the war in Ukraine.


----------



## a_chap (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## xenon (Sep 29, 2022)

Fuck the left. What is the left anyway. Argue a decent socialist policy or plan. No one gives a fuck about "the left" except on here. If you're a communist or anarchist, just get on and make the case. The intraspection is a waste of energy and time.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

story said:


> C&P from the torygraph link above
> 
> Crispin Odey and other hedge fund managers profit from sterling tumble​Computer-driven traders have also gained from strong selling in UK currency​September 27 2022
> 
> ...



Reading that actually makes me feel a bit sick.

People I work with have not quite been that jocular but before Kwateng stood up in the commons that morning our boss was having a bit of laugh about how Truss and Kwateng are 'gamblers' and even he didn't know what was about to be announced (senior tory). They're so insulated from the results of this shit they really really dont care. It's just a game.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 29, 2022)

xenon said:


> Fuck the left. What is the left anyway. Argue a decent socialist policy or plan. No one gives a fuck about "the left" except on here. If you're a communist or anarchist, just get on and make the case. The intraspection is a waste of energy and time.


How do you expect to make the case without identifying it first? I'm all for avoiding too much navel gazing but "just do it" is an equally pointless approach.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Reading that actually makes me feel a bit sick.
> 
> People I work with have not quite been that jocular but before Kwateng stood up in the commons that morning our boss was having a bit of laugh about how Truss and Kwateng are 'gamblers' and even he didn't know what was about to be announced (senior tory). They're so insulated from the results of this shit they really really dont care. It's just a game.


wow do you work with senior tories? I don't think you've told us about that before.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I don't see how this mess is going to swing centre-ish people to the left, for example.


You really can't see how an ideologically driven, self-inflicted economic recession with all of the attendant hardship, poverty, anxiety and heartbreak will cause people to question in who's interest this state is governed?


----------



## contadino (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy?  How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?


We've already forgotten about the outrage from water company bosses pay, whilst pouring shit into our rivers and giving the money that should have been spent on infrastructure to shareholders. The reservoirs are still empty, but a couple of rain showers and that's just chip wrappers already.

So no. Sadly I see no progress on nationalised energy anytime soon.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

She's back-pedalled on Sunak's promise on benefits



what an utter cunt


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)

Matthew Lesh is head of public policy at the Institute for Economic Affairs.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> She's back-pedalled on Sunak's promise on benefits
> 
> 
> 
> what an utter cunt



Fair enough, but those last 2 questions look a tad naive.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 29, 2022)

One of the guys from work posted a tik tok video about tax "so simple even socialists can understand it"   .  I'm assuming he's in the Truss fan club.  Amazing to think she'll still have the support of some people.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Support for nationalising utilities already has substantial support across supporters of all political parties tbf.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy?  How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?





Rob Ray said:


> You don't see how the very public seppuku of neoliberal dogma might discourage people from embracing the political wing which conceived, implemented and associated with it for the last 40+ years?
> 
> The question is not whether people will change their views, it's how. The far-right is, predictably, cleaning up by embracing a belligerent retreat into jingoism in the absence of a coherent/confident left alternative, but they will also be fucking things up in short order – the opportunity very much is there for the left, should it ever get its act together. The problem is atm it doesn't seem to be able to, so how to fix that is the debate to be had. Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you're equipped for it, teuchter.



I think support for nationalised utilities/public services might increase due to the energy crisis (rather than due to what the government is doing).

Dunno if there will be a notable increase in support for strike action.

I don't think the "very public seppuku of neoliberal dogma might discourage people from embracing the political wing which conceived, implemented and associated with it for the last 40+ years" because most people (or at least the people whose minds need to be changed) won't see it as a "seppuku of neoliberal dogma" in the first place.

I think what it's likely that many people will take away from this will be an increased awareness of the fact that decisions made by the government actually can have a direct and real effect on their lives.

I read loads on urban75 about sectors of society that believe that it doesn't really matter who's in power, they are all the same, etc. And this was supposedly the reason for the leave vote - perception that things are bad enough that they can't get much worse, throw everything in the air as a protest vote, etc etc.

Well, I don't really buy that entirely, but in any case, if what's happening now doesn't blow over, and prompts things like people's mortgages going way up, then it doesn't seem whacky to speculate that this will turn people off any kind of radical interventions with the economy and make centrist type positions look ore attractive.

No I am not very well equipped for the debate on how "the left" can get its act together, but I'm not very convinced that those who are equipped for it by their extensive reading and years of pontification are going to get anywhere either, because so much of it is based on an over-optimistic view of what most people want or care about.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You really can't see how an ideologically driven, self-inflicted economic recession with all of the attendant hardship, poverty, anxiety and heartbreak will cause people to question in who's interest this state is governed?


Seeing as the last two major UK recessions gave us John Major and David Cameron - not really no.


----------



## Yossarian (Sep 29, 2022)

xenon said:


> I'm worried she'll again say something fuckwitted to look hard on the international front by way of bolstering her leadership, at this critical point in the war in Ukraine.



"If we send weapons to Russia they'll trickle down to the Ukrainians."

Though with recent Ukrainian advances, this is probably truer than her economic theories.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 29, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> One of the guys from work posted a tik tok video about tax "so simple even socialists can understand it"   .  I'm assuming he's in the Truss fan club.  Amazing to think she'll still have the support of some people.


Until he receives his gas bill


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 29, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The answer to this doesn't really matter does it?



That girl speaks for us all


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 29, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Until he receives his gas bill



He's not exactly on a great wage, a proper working class Tory.  I don't think much would put him off voting Tory.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

I'm glad they are doubling down on this because that way the fun never stops

Until we all end up in the gutter taking rad pills and living off beetles


----------



## moochedit (Sep 29, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> He's not exactly on a great wage, a proper working class Tory.  I don't think much would put him off voting Tory.


Yeah there are a few like that at my work. I think reality will catch up with them soon though.


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> You don't see how the energy crisis may lead to more support for nationalised energy?  How the publicity around cost of living may lead to more support for strike action in pay disputes?



Support for nationalisation has been there for ages, and has a broad base... e.g yougov summary of support for energy nationalisation since 2019 below. I realise since 2019 is not 'for ages', but that covers the 2019 election and shows majority support even among tories. Support for leftist _policies_ isn't the problem.









						Support for bringing energy companies back into public ownership
					

To what extent would you support or oppose bringing energy companies back into public ownership?




					yougov.co.uk


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 29, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Yeah there are a few like that at my work. I think reality will catch up with them soon though.



The trouble is they're easily palmed off by excuses like "it's all down to the war in Ukraine", "every country is going through the same thing", "we need low taxes for high earners to attract the best", etc


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Well, I don't really buy that entirely, but in any case, if what's happening now doesn't blow over, and prompts things like people's mortgages going way up, then it doesn't seem whacky to speculate that this will turn people off any kind of radical interventions with the economy and make centrist type positions look ore attractive.
> 
> No I am not very well equipped for the debate on how "the left" can get its act together, but I'm not very convinced that those who are equipped for it by their extensive reading and years of pontification are going to get anywhere either, because so much of it is based on an over-optimistic view of what most people want or care about.


Although my own policy preferences tend to be radical or at the very least way out of step with the dominant allegedly centrist positions of the last 40+ years have been, I dont spend all that much time pontificating about them in the manner you have criticised in recent posts because I am most interested in stuff that stands a fair chance of actually happening.

With that in mind, of increasing interest this century is the way in which the unavoidable challenges of this century will affect the policy detail of what is packaged up and sold to people as being a legitimate part of the non-radical centre-ground. I think one of the reasons the tories are in a mess is that their ideological preferences are increasingly out of step with the policies that even centre-ground capitalist entities will end up having to support this century. Truss represents an extreme example of the worst Thatcherite type excesses being so obviously at odds with the fundamentals of our age, and now we are going to see the tory party and the broader establishment be forced to come to terms with this in an incredibly messy and chaotic way. The nature of criticisms from other entities like the IMF and other countries such as Germany today add some example detail to this. Truss reflects how out on a limb the tories have been driven in their quest to deny these emerging realities, and the chances are now great that once the dust settles they will be relegated to the margins until they have shown some signs of coming to terms with reality. It looks increasingly likely that most of that will happen while they are out of power. Meanwhile the latest iteration of what counts as sensible, mainstream, centrist stuff will probably get a chance to evolve and adapt a little more, and then end up in the driving seat of power.

It doesnt sound like your own opinion of what most people want or care about is in complete alignment with the population either. But that may just be down to conflating what a rather large number of people would actually wish for and what they've been led to believe is realistic and possible. Sometimes events provide a rare glimpse of what people would actually like, sometimes even a rare opportunity for a quicker shift in what the media etc deem to be mainstream, centralist and plausible. Economic events of significant magnitude sometimes get into this territory, as do energy shocks and also events like the recent pandemic where a rapid adjustment occured as a result of even the establishment suddenly having to think the unthinkable. Assumptions about support for strikes being less than actually turns out to be the case are not an uncommon feature, probably in part down to a distorted view via media propaganda, stuff which in the past the media then had to adjust in order to restore their credibility (eg BBC attitude towards firefighter strikes years ago, shit they had to shift on once the honking of passing motorists gave a different picture).

I've been a bit stuck in a holding pattern for 20 years because I got a bit ahead of events in terms of the energy transition this century. And a chunk of my fellow travellers early on were the sort who could only pay full attention to things like peak oil when they attached a sense of immediacy to it, and they seemed to lose focus once it became more obvious that the crudest of peak oil timing predictions were wide of the mark. I initially shared some of those timing errors, but instead of giving up I managed to adjust to the reality of a very much longer and more complicated period of instability and transition, a story of the century that will probably not complete until after my lifetime is over. Anyway in recent years it feels like this story is starting to get to the 'interesting' bits, change is looming larger on the horizon. But a lot of people still seek simpler stories, and many of those who would like to weave everything together into a comprehensive narrative are doomed via oversimplification, paranoia, or too narrow a focus, or assumptions that are rooted in what was deemed plausible in previous eras instead of what possibilities future realities render plausible or even inevitable.

In any case change is happening, but its messy and in this country the right is still been granted far more opportunities to attempt extreme policies than the left ever gets. But I refuse to see that as a simple indication of which way the populations preferences actually lean, much of it is only a story about which way the establishments interests lean. And I dont think the right will get infinite chances to keep flogging doomed shit, they will end up a temporarily spent force at some point and then the new mainstream that is more in tune with the challenges of this century will get a chance to rule.

I've also heard that generations younger than me are less burdened by some of the very long ideological shadows that were case in the 20th century. Apparently socialism is not such a dirty word in such quarters. But we havent reached a moment where I would dare to predict how much affect that will have on where the new mainstream can end up in policy terms in the next decade or so. Its one to watch though, especially if certain forms of capitalism fuck up in ways that shake faith in such things well beyond the radical left.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> She's back-pedalled on Sunak's promise on benefits
> 
> 
> 
> what an utter cunt



I didn't know a benefits increase was planned.

However I'm expecting them to cancel the second cost of living payment. Hope not


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

She's taken to twitter and, rather impressively, sounds just as wooden and ill-informed in that medium:


----------



## story (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Reading that actually makes me feel a bit sick.
> 
> People I work with have not quite been that jocular but before Kwateng stood up in the commons that morning our boss was having a bit of laugh about how Truss and Kwateng are 'gamblers' and even he didn't know what was about to be announced (senior tory). They're so insulated from the results of this shit they really really dont care. It's just a game.




I‘m going to tell this story again..


This was just about the time that austerity measures were starting to kick in so that cuts were having real world effects in communities, so let’s say winter 2010/11 . I was in a pub with some friends and not everyone knew each other. I got talking with the woman sat beside me and it turned out she was a lawyer working fairly high up within the Financial Services Authority. l asked her “I‘m curious, now that austerity measures are starting to have an effect on people‘s daily lives, how is that-“ and she interrupted me and said “The question doesn’t make sense.”

I was a bit annoyed and tried again. I wanted to ask if there was any awareness of, any concern about, any sense of recognition of the anger and distress the policy was causing. “So the people you’re working with, the ones who’ve framed this policy, do they think the effects will-“ and again she just cut across me, said. “The question doesn’t arise.”

I thought she was being arrogant and said “Just let me ask the question”. So she did, but I could see that she was humouring me. I framed it as “Are they not concerned that the anger and distress their policies cause may play out badly for them?”

And then she said “You don’t get it. Your question does not make sense. The question of how people feel about their policies does not arise.” I just kinda looked at her, because while I knew she was telling me something true, I didn’t want it to be so. I mean, I’d always known this on some level but to hear it stated so simply by someone who works with them was unsettling.

Then she said “This is the thing that most people don’t understand. People, you and me and all of us here, we don’t exist for them. Not even in abstract terms. We are statistics, numbers in a formulae, not people. They don’t give us any thought because we don’t exist for them. The question _do they consider the effects_ does not arise. However you frame it, your question makes no sense.”

So there you go.

Truss’ robotic responses to questions are entirely sensible when this is understood. She has no answers because they don’t care because we don’t exist. Unfortunately for Truss and those behind her, she’s not a great actor. That’s her stupidity. Nothing has changed because Truss is worse than anyone else at this, it’s just that the Truss is more shit at hiding the truth from us.

And as others have said, now would be quite a good time for the Left to grow some muscle, or start to use what strengths we have. But it won’t happen. Because the long-game work of making all of us into little personal principalities has been so successful. Everyone will batten downs the hatches around our own little patch and pull up the drawbridge. Try to weather the storm as best we can. None of us has the resources, let alone the stomach, for the fight because we’ve been conditioned to be fearful of the perceived consequences: more poverty, more debt, more taxes, more loss of control.

Truss was brought in - or allowed in, or anyway not stopped - because she’s utterly expendable. She was given the task of pushing through these stupid hedge fund tactics. She’s a fall guy, she’s the stooge, the stool pigeon.
She has no option other than following the script now. She has no real policy of her own.

And we all know that in the background there is Medici level machination going on to groom up whoever comes next. I reckon they’ll be quite comfortable letting her stay in office while the rubble rains down on us all. Those with the money will be comfortable enough to wait it out.

The only people who really care about who’s in power are the politicians themselves. It makes no real difference to us, eh, not really. Everything is falling to pieces regardless of who’s making policy, it’s just about which bit breaks first now. The ones who run things at the top the ones who hold the money, they’re fine whoever is sitting. They just need to have a sense of what‘s afoot in order to make hay. The likes of Rees-Moggs and Crispin Odey will continue to feather their own foul nests regardless of any other factor.

If Labour do win the next election and then fails to bring in the new dawn (which it will), the stage will be set for the next several decades of Tory rule to comfortably slide into place. They’ll work then to mend the economy, if that’s still even possible . Or it will be a war leader, which may be more necessary by then.

I don’t believe that Labour has any credibility. And if we haven’t caused a revolution by now (how many billions on the Queen’s funeral…?) it ain’t gunna happen. Even if Labour do win the next election there is too much sunk-cost fallacy invested in Tory wins to motivate people to rise up. 

I really hope I’m wrong but that’s how I’m seeing this.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> She's taken to twitter and, rather impressively, sounds just as wooden and ill-informed in that medium:



Wooden as she certainly is, I'm struggling to think what she could say that would improve her position.  This is about it really:


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> She's taken to twitter and, rather impressively, sounds just as wooden and ill-informed in that medium:




She's unreal. Didn't they use to mock Theresa May for being a robot? She's Barbara Streisand compared to this idiot.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

Also posted in Political Polling thread; she's achieved something quite remarkable there, tbf:


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

that's quite a conference bump for the labour party huh?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> that's quite a conference bump for the labour party huh?


Reckon they could all have sat in 'spoons and do fuck all and those numbers would have looked the same.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

The problem is that surely the Tories will get rid her of well before of the GE and bring in someone, anyone, slightly more intelligent and electable


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Also posted in Political Polling thread; she's achieved something quite remarkable there, tbf:



Sadly for Labour a period of campaigning always precedes the actual vote


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The problem is that surely the Tories will get rid her of well before of the GE and bring in someone, anyone, slightly more intelligent and electable


Some tory 'grandee' like John Redwood for example


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

and the daily mail et all will swing round behind them well before the election


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## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

I almost wish she'd waited a bit longer to fuck this up so spectacularly. Sunak's the obvious replacement and he could actually win. I mean, it's been two weeks or something like that right to mangle shit up more than any PM in living memory.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

21% of respondents want more of this.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

These are not really numbers a quick change of leader and the Mail running a few headlines can totally fix. Would you even want to try and fix this if you were Sunak? Better to leave it to someone else to get wiped out at the next GE and swoop in afterwards I'd imagine. No-one with real ambitions is going to want to take over.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> These are not really numbers a quick change of leader and the Mail running a few headlines can totally fix. Would you even want to try and fix this if you were Sunak? Better to leave it to someone else to get wiped out at the next GE and swoop in afterwards I'd imagine. No-one with real ambitions is going to want to take over.


All tories have unreal ambitions


----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

Nothing to see here Liz.. all part of the plan


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2022)

What's the betting the tory leadership election process will get a re-jig after this fiasco. That being said, it was the MPs who let an obvious catastrophe like Truss on the ticket for the members' vote in the first place.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> What's the betting the tory leadership election process will get a re-jig after this fiasco. That being said, it was the MPs who let an obvious catastrophe like Truss on the ticket for the members' vote in the first place.


31.6% of them; the real fucking headbanger noddys


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 29, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I reckon truss is a putin bot, put in place many years ago to sabotage the UK in event of just the sort of situation we now face


It's certainly a theory which could be explored. Brexit was almost certainly assisted by outside forces, be they Russian or Steve Bannon/Trumpian or both. Brexit supporters were beyond desperate to get Truss on the ballot. She has the appearance of a woman "in power but not in charge". Who is behind the door to number 10 really?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2022)

story said:


> This was just about the time that austerity measures were starting to kick in so that cuts were having real world effects in communities, so let’s say winter 2010/11 . I was in a pub with some friends and not everyone knew each other. I got talking with the woman sat beside me and it turned out she was a lawyer working fairly high up within the Financial Services Authority. l asked her “I‘m curious, now that austerity measures are starting to have an effect on people‘s daily lives, how is that-“ and she interrupted me and said “The question doesn’t make sense.”
> 
> I was a bit annoyed and tried again. I wanted to ask if there was any awareness of, any concern about, any sense of recognition of the anger and distress the policy was causing. “So the people you’re working with, the ones who’ve framed this policy, do they think the effects will-“ and again she just cut across me, said. “The question doesn’t arise.”
> 
> ...



Who were the "them" she was talking about, exactly?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 29, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I almost wish she'd waited a bit longer to fuck this up so spectacularly. Sunak's the obvious replacement and he could actually win. I mean, it's been two weeks or something like that right to mangle shit up more than any PM in living memory.




She's hardly likely to come out and say, "Fuck it, I'm not cut out for this, Rishi's turn" is she. They all cling on as long as they can, in her case until the election must be called. Just hope the BoE can stay on top of shit until then and stop her destroying any savings/pensions that anyone in the UK has.

On a plus note, I still have $35 left over from a trip to New York last month, by next Wednesday I may be able to use that to buy the £5m mansion up the hill from me


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> These are not really numbers a quick change of leader and the Mail running a few headlines can totally fix. Would you even want to try and fix this if you were Sunak? Better to leave it to someone else to get wiped out at the next GE and swoop in afterwards I'd imagine. No-one with real ambitions is going to want to take over.



I think ideas around 'leaving it until next time' don't really hold up. It's 8 years until that opportunity... No ambitious person is going to play on those terms. And the reality of it is that what the world will be like next time is hugely unpredictable. The situation here and now presents an obvious opportunity for someone like that... It's a hellishly tricky one for sure, but you don't become a career politician without a great deal of self belief. And in all honesty just doing what the BoE and IMF say will cause some bounce back immediately as markets rally... Throw in some light populism (as he did with e.g eat out to help out), emphasise a return to 'economics without ideology' emphasise stability and a return to the old normal. 2 years is ample time to rebuild the tory base.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## Petcha (Sep 29, 2022)

Cid said:


> I think ideas around 'leaving it until next time' don't really hold up. It's 8 years until that opportunity... No ambitious person is going to play on those terms. And the reality of it is that what the world will be like next time is hugely unpredictable. The situation here and now presents an obvious opportunity for someone like that... It's a hellishly tricky one for sure, but you don't become a career politician without a great deal of self belief. And in all honesty just doing what the BoE and IMF say will cause some bounce back immediately as markets rally... Throw in some light populism (as he did with e.g eat out to help out), emphasise a return to 'economics without ideology' emphasise stability and a return to the old normal. 2 years is ample time to rebuild the tory base.



He is going to look like a knight in shining armour after this, to the Tory base anyway. And quite possibly to the general electorate. I don't see him waiting 8 years either for another crack at it.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 29, 2022)

the tories are totally fucked. They are going to loose all but their most wing nut supporters and funders. There is no coming back from what they have done.


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2022)

Its the sort of poll numbers I thought we might get if there was energy rationing this winter, along with a general botched response to that and the cost of living crisis. And/or an additional NHS crisis due to its present state and the potential resurgence of flu and covid. To have reached that stage well before that season is quite the achievement.


----------



## story (Sep 29, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Who were the "them" she was talking about, exactly?



I didn’t ask for the names.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> the tories are totally fucked. They are going to loose all but their most wing nut supporters and funders. There is no coming back from what they have done.


Are you sure? They still have a majority and none of them are going to want to call an election.


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> the tories are totally fucked. They are going to loose all but their most wing nut supporters and funders. There is no coming back from what they have done.



If Truss stays they are. If not, they have time on their side.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

They don't really though. two years isn't a very long time, and she isn't going tomorrow.


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## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Two years during which the country will be labouring under the effects of a recession the government themselves have caused, too.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2022)

brogdale said:


> 21% of respondents want more of this.



That'll be the old 'uns with only two faculties remaining; soiling themselves and voting tory.


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> They don't really though. two years isn't a very long time, and she isn't going tomorrow.



It's long enough to be worth the gamble I think... Sure, if she lasts until next autumn or something, the calculus changes.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> the tories are totally fucked. They are going to loose all but their most wing nut supporters and funders. There is no coming back from what they have done.



But this is about the 48th time they've redefined failure since 2010 and they're still in power. Memories are short.


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## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Two years during which the country will be labouring under the effects of a recession the government themselves have caused, too.



That is true, but it is only true in one sense. That being the sense of things that actually happened. There are alternative truths  .


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

How do you sell those alternative truths now though? It can't wash.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> How do you sell those alternative truths now though? It can't wash.



You get a substantial chunk of the press to sell them for you.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

there are limits to what a substantial chunk of the press can do by lying.


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> there are limits to what a substantial chunk of the press can do by lying.



They got Boris Johnson elected. A man not even qualified to operate the zip on his own trousers.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 29, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


>




Survation, has the best record in recent GE's, and the brexit vote.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> They got Boris Johnson elected. A man not even qualified to operate the zip on his own trousers.


nah, that was Kier Starmer ironically enough


----------



## SysOut (Sep 29, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> That'll be the old 'uns with only two faculties remaining; soiling themselves and voting tory.


no young fanatics?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

SysOut said:


> no young fanatics?


In her day Dr 'Tiz' Coffey was a young radical


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

I think those poll leads are basically answers to the question: 'how fucking angry are you at the moment'?  If some degree of stability is restored in the markets, they'll inevitably fall back, though we'll see of course.  If Labour's leads get back to anything like 10%, the chances of the tories booting her out recede a bit or gets put on the back burner.  They'll think they are back in the game or at least could get closer with a raft of populist policies and a dirty election campaign.  But that's how bad things are for them, the notion that 10% poll deficits are their target. Until this week I've never thought kieth could be PM - that even I think he will be now is also a measure of fucking awful truss is.


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> there are limits to what a substantial chunk of the press can do by lying.



I'm obviously not precisely predicting the future... All I'm saying is that there is an opportunity there, and it's one which has a viable path to it. That's enough for someone like Sunak to give it a try.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 29, 2022)

ditching truss would maybe be damage limitation - but it wont win them the election, maybe just stop the bleeding. But it would also further shred their crediblity - how many people will vote for a party at war with itself and who change leaders three times during a parliament? And truss would not go quietly.  You can sense - as with blair - big wheels in media and finance and business moving behind labour because the torys are basically now synonymous with economic disaster.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> ditching truss would maybe be damage limitation - but it wont win them the election, maybe just stop the bleeding. But it would also further shred their crediblity - how many people will vote for a party at war with itself and who change leaders three times during a parliament? And truss would not go quietly.  You can sense - as with blair - big wheels in media and finance and business moving behind labour because the torys are basically now synonymous with economic disaster.




You better ask yourself punk, have we fired six prime minister's or only five?

Do you feel lucky?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2022)

This live action remake of 2012 pot-boiler Britannia Unchained has got to get a 1 out of 10 I'm afraid


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

Epping Forest turns red under these polls and it's feels like I've had a stroke.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> ditching truss would maybe be damage limitation - but it wont win them the election, maybe just stop the bleeding. But it would also further shred their crediblity - how many people will vote for a party at war with itself and who change leaders three times during a parliament? And truss would not go quietly.  You can sense - as with blair - big wheels in media and finance and business moving behind labour because the torys are basically now synonymous with economic disaster.


I genuinely don't know how tory backbenchers will play this.  They are obviously venal self interested shitbags and will make a move at the point they see a clear advantage in doing so.  They probably had a lingering loyalty to johnson and held fire for a quite a while.  Truss isn't someone who won them a near landslide and hardly has the feel of being an election winner (lol).  At the moment they are headless chickens in a prisoner's dilemma with nowhere to go.  It will certainly be interestng to see how they vote on non-economic issues. Could well be a lot of rebellions around issues they can use in a vain attempt at keeping their seats in 2 years.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

I would like to see a new reality TV show in which all the authors of Britannia unchained have to work in a variety of workplaces. I'd be particularly interested in how they'd fare in a library environment but they might start off in the events industry, arranging workplace parties in breweries and distilleries. I think it has the potential to be both entertaining and illuminating


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Epping Forest turns red under these polls and it's feels like I've had a stroke.


There is some seats based on those polls I would never thought go red in my life time and there it is if it does happen


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Epping Forest turns red under these polls and it's feels like I've had a stroke.


Wait until the only poll that really matters before having a stroke


----------



## Cid (Sep 29, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> ditching truss would maybe be damage limitation - but it wont win them the election, maybe just stop the bleeding. But it would also further shred their crediblity - how many people will vote for a party at war with itself and who change leaders three times during a parliament? And truss would not go quietly.  You can sense - as with blair - big wheels in media and finance and business moving behind labour because the torys are basically now synonymous with economic disaster.



It's true enough... Shammer getting some policies handed to him also complicates things. There's no certainty here... But we are right in the middle of perfect storm of shitness right now, and the edge _could_ wear off that pretty quickly with even some quite basic changes (e.g some level of confidence in the pound, positive noises from financial institutions). Their credibility isn't going to improve so long as Truss stays in the hot seat, and there is probably _some_ potential to rally the party around to at least get through the next election. They are, as wilf said, self-interested venal shitbags... Just depends how much you can play on the 'self-interested' bit.


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 29, 2022)

At some point ill be putting 50 quid on a tory win next GE, ill look at the odds tomorrow and might do it then.

Hm just had a look paddy power will only let me put 33 quid on it online and at 3/1


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I genuinely don't know how tory backbenchers will play this.  They are obviously venal self interested shitbags and will make a move at the point they see a clear advantage in doing so.  They probably had a lingering loyalty to johnson and held fire for a quite a while.  Truss isn't someone who won them a near landslide and hardly has the feel of being an election winner (lol).  At the moment they are headless chickens in a prisoner's dilemma with nowhere to go.  It will certainly be interestng to see how they vote on non-economic issues. Could well be a lot of rebellions around issues they can use in a vain attempt at keeping their seats in 2 years.


The thing is the mps backed Johnson, more mps backed sunak than truss. Potential for bigger rebellions against the cackhanded truss because she doesn't have the loyalty of most of her parliamentary party and she's too weak and stupid to have brought colleagues from outside her circle of chums into the cabinet. It's already clear to a high number of tory mps that they need a new leader if they're ever going to get on the ministerial ladder so they've nothing to lose from opposing her


----------



## rasputin (Sep 29, 2022)

ska invita said:


> ffs
> so much for her trumpeted market discipline
> i wonder if the quantitative money printing will kick in again


When you posted this, no. QE was being reversed.
As of this week, yes. The BoE has started major new bond purchases, financed from central bank reserves.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

I don't know, you lot. Have you never had a bad day at a new job? She makes _one little mistake _and you're all "oo she won't last".


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I don't know, you lot. Have you never had a bad day at a new job? She makes _one little mistake _and you're all "oo she won't last".


My bad days at the office have never entailed tanking the economy through putting an economic illiterate in charge of the soon to be eighteenth largest economy in the world


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

Cid said:


> It's true enough... Shammer getting some policies handed to him also complicates things. There's no certainty here... But we are right in the middle of perfect storm of shitness right now, and the edge _could_ wear off that pretty quickly with even some quite basic changes (e.g some level of confidence in the pound, positive noises from financial institutions). Their credibility isn't going to improve so long as Truss stays in the hot seat, and there is probably _some_ potential to rally the party around to at least get through the next election. They are, as wilf said, self-interested venal shitbags... Just depends how much you can play on the 'self-interested' bit.


That yougov poll has a significant percentage of lifelong tories saying they will vote Labour.  I don't think they will and I don't think they even mean they will when they answered the poll like that.  Still... 54%   

By the by, Labour could do with getting a major voter registration push to make sure they can actually get those votes.


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 29, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> My bad days at the office have never entailed tanking the economy through putting an economic illiterate in charge of the soon to be eighteenth largest economy in the world


She’s done well to top her first day in the office, killing the countries monarch


----------



## hitmouse (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Oh ok, all the publicity says to go to Piccadilly Gardens so I was going to do that.





Wilf said:


> Me too.


Fwiw, it sounds like Don't Pay are meeting up at 11:30 at Piccadilly Station before heading down, so you could go to Piccadilly Station, say hello to the RMT pickets, then have a very short walk down to the gardens?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> She’s done well to top her first day in the office, killing the countries monarch


After meeting truss and being told she was the new pm the queen died laughing


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> She’s done well to top her first day in the office, killing the countries monarch


Yeh it's what she'll do to millions of other pensioners that worries me


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 29, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> She’s done well to top her first day in the office, killing the countries monarch


Killer Queen


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 29, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> After meeting truss and being told she was the new pm the queen died laughing



Perhaps HMQ knew that Truss’s premiership would be the biggest car crash since Paris 1997


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 29, 2022)

Wilf said:


> That yougov poll has a significant percentage of lifelong tories saying they will vote Labour.  I don't think they will and I don't think they even mean they will when they answered the poll like that.  Still... 54%
> 
> By the by, Labour could do with getting a major voter registration push to make sure they can actually get those votes.


Yea its just sending a message, no way they would actually live by their words, they're tories ffs


----------



## Wilf (Sep 29, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Fwiw, it sounds like Don't Pay are meeting up at 11:30 at Piccadilly Station before heading down, so you could go to Piccadilly Station, say hello to the RMT pickets, then have a very short walk down to the gardens?


Excellent, might do that.   Trouble is I'm at hunt sabs gig in Barnsley tomorrow, then have to get over to Rochdale and up to get into Manchester for this (with a side order of getting to the FC United game at 3.00 on Saturday). Ah, the life of a leftist cultural Marxist snowflake!


----------



## _Russ_ (Sep 29, 2022)

I still think theyll get back in though


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 29, 2022)

Tweet: Truss suggests Nicola Sturgeon announce the same tax cuts as she has


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Tweet: Truss suggests Nicola Sturgeon announce the same tax cuts as she has



Dont think that Sturgeon is that daft


----------



## Smangus (Sep 29, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> My bad days at the office have never entailed tanking the economy through putting an economic illiterate in charge of the soon to be eighteenth largest economy in the world



You obviously lack ambition.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 29, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I would like to see a new reality TV show in which all the authors of Britannia unchained have to work in a variety of workplaces. I'd be particularly interested in how they'd fare in a library environment but they might start off in the events industry, arranging workplace parties in breweries and distilleries. I think it has the potential to be both entertaining and illuminating


If it wasn't a total safeguarding nightmare I'd love to see them do an early shift in a care home on minimum wage. Pad changes and showers all round (and that's just the staff...)


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Sep 29, 2022)

Truss is clearly not backtracking on her &Kwarteng's ludicrous tax cut mini budget maximum carnage, so am I right in thinking that the mini-budget goes to a vote in the commons?

If so that's a defacto VOC in her, coming just a few short months after only 1/3 of her own party put her forward for leader.  There's going to be a fair few looking at these polls and getting twitchy - a 70something majority is huge, but is it enough?  So, either she loses and (surely) resigns before the day is out, or wins and the Great British Binfire carries on with the entire Tory party inextricably linked to this flaming refuse.  

It's hilarious and absolutely fucking terrifying all at the same time.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Apparently any vote on the mini budget doesn't need to happen til early next year, by which time it will have changed substatially whatever they're saying today


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Truss is clearly not backtracking on her &Kwarteng's ludicrous tax cut mini budget maximum carnage, so am I right in thinking that the mini-budget goes to a vote in the commons?



Not just votes in the Commons, but the Lords too, should be plenty of trouble ahead.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Apparently any vote on the mini budget doesn't need to happen til early next year, by which time it will have changed substatially whatever they're saying today


Ta.  Is that because the majority of measures were announced well in advance, as a "come into effect April 23" kind of thing?


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

yeah i guess so


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Sep 29, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Not just votes in the Commons, but the Lords too, should be plenty of trouble ahead.


Now is the time to invest your money in deckchairs and popcorn futures.


----------



## killer b (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Now is the time to invest your money in deckchairs and popcorn futures.


Except the deckchairs you're renting out are on the deck of the Titanic


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Now is the time to invest your money in deckchairs and popcorn futures.



I've got the concession on those in Worthing.


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Except the deckchairs you're renting out are on the deck of the Titanic


Sadly not worth anything now


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

So nothing has actually changed yet and it's still had these huge effects?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2022)

As I said on fb, this movie can't decide whether it wants to be a horror or a comedy and fails dismally at both. The flash forward scene where the lead actress is talking about pork markets is the most entertaining thing in a dire performance that goes on way too long


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2022)

What were the screenwriters thinking having her say cringe-worthy 'terrible PM' lines like 'I'll hit the ground', that plot twist was obvious af. The tired old trope of 'incompetent Tory politicians unleash economic chaos' has been dragged over 4 sequels at this point but the franchise keep on trying to wring more and more from it


----------



## Raheem (Sep 29, 2022)

killer b said:


> Apparently any vote on the mini budget doesn't need to happen til early next year, by which time it will have changed substatially whatever they're saying today


There's no way it will get as far as a vote anyway (in its current form), because it would be voted down and then Truss would be in a position to punish her MPs by calling a general election (which she may or may not, but it's a real risk, because she will have to threaten it) They will get rid of her before allowing that to happen.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Tweet: Truss suggests Nicola Sturgeon announce the same tax cuts as she has



' I want to work with nicola' !
Same lizz truss that said Nicola is best ignored? Fucking hell  🤣


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 29, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I've got the concession on those in Worthing.


You've got 'The lovely sea breeze' , and now you want the deckchairs and the fucking popcorn. Greedy capitalist bastard.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 29, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> ' I want to work with nicola' !
> Same lizz truss that said Nicola is best ignored? Fucking hell  🤣


I want to work with nicola by telling her what to do'


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2022)

Shitshow in the fuck factory


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

The look of a person haunted by the ghost of Christmas Kwarteng


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Truss is clearly not backtracking on her &Kwarteng's ludicrous tax cut mini budget maximum carnage, so am I right in thinking that the mini-budget goes to a vote in the commons?



There’s only a vote after an ‘actual’ budget.  Which this wasn’t, it was a Special Economic Operation.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 29, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Tweet: Truss suggests Nicola Sturgeon announce the same tax cuts as she has



This is better than drugs


----------



## Raheem (Sep 29, 2022)

belboid said:


> There’s only a vote after an ‘actual’ budget.  Which this wasn’t, it was a Special Economic Operation.


It does still have to be voted on before it can go into force.


----------



## Supine (Sep 29, 2022)




----------



## maomao (Sep 29, 2022)

There going to need a whole new department called the Office of Mini-Budget Responsibility.


----------



## Sue (Sep 29, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Now is the time to invest your money in deckchairs and popcorn futures.


I'm going to invest mine in gin as reckon at this rate I'm going to need as much as I can get my hands on.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 29, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> ' I want to work with nicola' !
> Same lizz truss that said Nicola is best ignored? Fucking hell  🤣


this is all great developments for Scottish Independence


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 29, 2022)

ska invita said:


> this is all great developments for Scottish Independence


Yes, it does rather hole below the waterline any 'fiscal responsibility' line of attack. I presume the only reason the laughter isn't louder at Holyrood is that Scotland is still fully shackled to the shitshow.


----------



## belboid (Sep 29, 2022)

maomao said:


> There going to need a whole new department called the Office of Mini-Budget Responsibility.


Mini-Budget & Mini-Responsibility


----------



## quiet guy (Sep 29, 2022)

Shouldn't that be Zero Responsibility based on her round of interviews with the local radio news stations  where she wouldn't accept any blame for the current shit show.


----------



## spring-peeper (Sep 30, 2022)

Supine said:


> View attachment 345089



When I read Nicola's response out to Hubby, he answered that Truss was living on the same planet as Trump.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 30, 2022)

I have a theory that Truss's process with this budget was pretty much the same at Putin's for invading Ukraine.

She surrounded herself with a small group of people, liable to tell her anything she wanted hear, excluded any non-barmy advisors, and allowed herself to be convinced that the ridiculous thing she wanted to achieve (massively cut taxes without also cutting spending) could be easily achieved with a single stealthy act of genius.

All she had to do was have KK announce the massive tax cuts and then sit back as the FTSE soared. By the time it came to setting out spending plans, five weeks later, the massive boost in projected growth would mean only modest spending cuts would be needed, or none at all probably.

Then, it didn't work, because it was an obviously stupid plan. And now she's decided she has has to lay waste to an entire country rather than admit fallibility.

Betcha.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

I've not been following closely (can't bear it) but she's doing pretty much what she said she would in the leadership debates, no?

But yes I don't doubt that she didn't anticipate this reaction. 30 percentage points behind in the polls is suboptimal.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 30, 2022)

Newscast was quite bearable tonight. From David dimbleby calling it 'a  shitshow',  to Steve coogan going Alan partridge radio Norfolk


----------



## Ted Striker (Sep 30, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> It's hilarious and absolutely fucking terrifying all at the same time.



Pretty good summary tbf


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 30, 2022)

Supine said:


> View attachment 345089



This must be doing wonders for Scottish Independence. Hell, I suspect even some members of the Orange Order are starting to question their unionism given how loony bin English politics has become.


----------



## LDC (Sep 30, 2022)

It's actually quite terrifying. They're clearly hoping to 'ride it out' the next days and weeks and count on much of the media settling down/moving on. But if the government aren't forced to back down, and ideally got rid of, it seems the years ahead are going to be a absolutely brutal round of cuts, including things we thought were pretty safe and 'untouchable'. Unless nuclear conflagration gets us first.


----------



## maomao (Sep 30, 2022)

LDC said:


> It's actually quite terrifying. They're clearly hoping to 'ride it out' the next days and weeks and count on much of the media settling down/moving on. But if the government aren't forced to back down, and ideally got rid of, it seems the years ahead are going to be a absolutely brutal round of cuts, including things we thought were pretty safe and 'untouchable'. Unless nuclear conflagration gets us first.


Part of me wonders if one of the reasons they won't back down is the thought that we're all getting blown up next week anyway.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 30, 2022)

A post nuclear wasteland is starting to look like a step up.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 30, 2022)

LDC said:


> It's actually quite terrifying. They're clearly hoping to 'ride it out' the next days and weeks and count on much of the media settling down/moving on. But if the government aren't forced to back down, and ideally got rid of, it seems the years ahead are going to be a absolutely brutal round of cuts, including things we thought were pretty safe and 'untouchable'. Unless nuclear conflagration gets us first.



Terrifyingly starting to look like a deliberate act of vandalism, “starving the beast” to destroy the welfare state. There should be a general strike until the barbaric Truss death cult are forced out.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 30, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I have a theory that Truss's process with this budget was pretty much the same at Putin's for invading Ukraine.
> 
> She surrounded herself with a small group of people, liable to tell her anything she wanted hear, excluded any non-barmy advisors, and allowed herself to be convinced that the ridiculous thing she wanted to achieve (massively cut taxes without also cutting spending) could be easily achieved with a single stealthy act of genius.
> 
> ...



How you're supposed to get growth when half the country has effectively zero disposable income is never explained. The rich, the only people benefitting from Kwarteng's plan, are known to spend proportionately far less of their money than anyone else. Maybe there'll be some growth in the cocaine trade but there's no tax revenue from that.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 30, 2022)

LDC said:


> It's actually quite terrifying. They're clearly hoping to 'ride it out' the next days and weeks and count on much of the media settling down/moving on. But if the government aren't forced to back down, and ideally got rid of, it seems the years ahead are going to be a absolutely brutal round of cuts, including things we thought were pretty safe and 'untouchable'. Unless nuclear conflagration gets us first.



Yes. Let’s be clear: what’s coming now is an intervention by Truss and KK to ‘reassure the market’. That reassurance will come in the form of massive spending cuts to claw back the money given away to the rich and corporations.

The November benefits increase will be scrapped, the state (what’s left of it) will be ‘rolled back’, wages will have to be further held down and expensive red tape dispensed with. Those complaining about the tax cuts will now help to pay for it through higher mortgages and costs.

I’ve posted elsewhere on here the question as to whether this was a trussterfuck or a planned assertion to manufacture consent for a further assault on permanent lowers standards of living and elite hegemony. 

If the latter it’s gone wrong initially. But once the parasite market is satisfied enough will be cut and an acceptable transfer of money from the working and middle classes has been extracted then the media tune will change. What then?


----------



## Cerv (Sep 30, 2022)

ska invita said:


> this is all great developments for Scottish Independence





Tanya1982 said:


> Yes, it does rather hole below the waterline any 'fiscal responsibility' line of attack. I presume the only reason the laughter isn't louder at Holyrood is that Scotland is still fully shackled to the shitshow.



doesn't the SNP's independence proposal still include keeping Sterling as Scotland's currency? that's got to be feeling a bit awkward this week.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 30, 2022)

There’s a point at which spending can’t be cut without it destroying the fabric of society, at which point it also becomes its own input to an economic death spiral. If the population are starving, they can’t buy things.  A company would rather pay 30% tax on £100m of profit than 20% tax on £10m of profit. Or, for that matter, no tax at all because it has made a loss. 

This isn’t just an angry “something must be done”. It’s an implacable fact that inevitably plays out. Governments usually fear failing to protect the population from ruin because they can’t survive that.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 30, 2022)

kabbes said:


> There’s a point at which spending can’t be cut without it destroying the fabric of society, at which point it also becomes its own input to an economic death spiral. If the population are starving, they can’t buy things.  A company would rather pay 30% tax on £100m of profit than 20% tax on £10m of profit. Or, for that matter, no tax at all because it has made a loss.
> 
> This isn’t just an angry “something must be done”. It’s an implacable fact that inevitably plays out. Governments usually fear failing to protect the population from ruin because they can’t survive that.



Every single person in Liz cabinet is of the ingrained belief that the state shouldn't exist.

It's almost religious in its devotion to shrinking the state


----------



## kabbes (Sep 30, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Every single person in Liz cabinet is of the ingrained belief that the state shouldn't exist.
> 
> It's almost religious in its devotion to shrinking the state


What does this mean in practice, though?  Because you can believe in shrinking the state all you want, but reality doesn’t tend to share your belief beyond a certain point. And I think we must be pretty close to that point


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 30, 2022)

kabbes said:


> What does this mean in practice, though?  Because you can believe in shrinking the state all you want, but reality doesn’t tend to share your belief beyond a certain point. And I think we must be pretty close to that point



It means we are fucked


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 30, 2022)

Arab diplomats urge Liz Truss not to move British embassy to Jerusalem
					

Private letter says ‘illegal” plan could jeopardise free trade deal between UK and Gulf Cooperation Council




					www.theguardian.com
				





Obviously I’m not up to date on all things truss, but where did this gem of an idea come from ?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 30, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Arab diplomats urge Liz Truss not to move British embassy to Jerusalem
> 
> 
> Private letter says ‘illegal” plan could jeopardise free trade deal between UK and Gulf Cooperation Council
> ...




Trump and similar dad right sponsors who are actively attempting to recreate Armageddon prophecies


I wish I was joking


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Every single person in Liz cabinet is of the ingrained belief that the state shouldn't exist.
> 
> It's almost religious in its devotion to shrinking the state


Not so; that would make them anarchists.
Trussian tories believe in a small (consolidator) state that is big enough to support state security and act as a regressive redistributive channel that transfers taxes on labour into unearned income.


----------



## tommers (Sep 30, 2022)

kabbes said:


> What does this mean in practice, though?  Because you can believe in shrinking the state all you want, but reality doesn’t tend to share your belief beyond a certain point. And I think we must be pretty close to that point


NHS. Reduced public pension. Removal / gutting of welfare. America, essentially. 

The only light is that there will be an election in 2024 so they've got max 2 years to turn us into Deadworld.

Starmer's a prick but jesus christ, he's not this.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Not so; that would make them anarchists.
> Trussian tories believe in a small (consolidator) state that is big enough to support state security and act as a regressive redistributive channel that transfers taxes on labour into unearned income.




Oh yeah, they want to keep the jackboots and scrap the rest


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Sep 30, 2022)

UK has an economy of x value, with fuck all of value to flog except for what's left of the NHS.  Truss and Kwarteng do their thing, pound tanks.  Foreign investors look at their pile of money in US dollars and think "hmmm, last week my pile of dollars was worth 0.9 piles of UK sterling, now it's worth a whole pile.  What an attractive place to invest - let's see what they've got, perhaps a slice of that NHS!"

Cue a Tory propaganda assault to frame it as "investment and belief in Britain" instead of what it is - the national equivalent of a fully paid up member of the precariat holding a yard sale in a desperate bid to try and make the next mortgage/rent payment.

Markets react to said "investment" and the UK economy is back at x value, but with even less of a rump carcass of the one thing that we hold dear.  Much like after the yard sale, we've made the mortgage payment for now but are left sitting on inflatable furniture eating own brand Supernoodles out of the last remaining bowl.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Not so; that would make them anarchists.
> Trussian tories believe in a small (consolidator) state that is big enough to support state security and act as a regressive redistributive channel that transfers taxes on labour into unearned income.


A state is needed to avoid the masses getting all chop chop chop with the free marketeers at the very least


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Oh yeah, they want to keep the jackboots and scrap the rest


and the (corporate) welfare state bits.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 30, 2022)

tommers said:


> NHS. Reduced public pension. Removal / gutting of welfare. America, essentially.
> 
> The only light is that there will be an election in 2024 so they've got max 2 years to turn us into Deadworld.
> 
> Starmer's a prick but jesus christ, he's not this.


He will be though.

He won't have the balls to reverse anything significant so will just push on in the same direction a little slower.


----------



## Cid (Sep 30, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It means we are fucked



Where on earth did our protest movements go (rhetorical question)? Appreciate the work of Lynch etc of course, but fuck me we should be on general strikes at this point. I shall pop up to the EiE protest tomorrow, maybe that will give some hope (although probably not).


----------



## gosub (Sep 30, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> It's certainly a theory which could be explored. Brexit was almost certainly assisted by outside forces, be they Russian or Steve Bannon/Trumpian or both. Brexit supporters were beyond desperate to get Truss on the ballot. She has the appearance of a woman "in power but not in charge". Who is behind the door to number 10 really?


Cabinet secretary usually


rasputin said:


> When you posted this, no. QE was being reversed.
> As of this week, yes. The BoE has started major new bond purchases, financed from central bank reserves.


Won't work, unfortunately 

And given QT was necessary cos of inflationary pressures...cutting benefits and printing money recipe for trouble


----------



## teqniq (Sep 30, 2022)

Much good it may do but this seems to have taken off big time:









						Petition: Call an immediate general election to end the chaos of the current government
					

Call an immediate general election so that the people can decide who should lead us through the unprecedented crises threatening the UK.




					petition.parliament.uk


----------



## Cid (Sep 30, 2022)

I mean wtf? How have we got to this point...









						NHS nurses not eating at work in order to feed their children, survey finds
					

Lack of money in NHS means some staff are quitting to take better paid jobs in pubs and shops




					www.theguardian.com
				






> Miriam Deakin, the director of policy and strategy at NHS Providers, said: “There are heart-rending stories of nurses choosing between eating during the day and being able to buy a school uniform for their children at home.
> ...
> More than a quarter (27%) of trusts already operate food banks for staff, and another 19% plan to open one, to help relieve the acute financial difficulties faced by staff.


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 30, 2022)

How to think like Liz Truss:

1. Hear the question, then go to answer what you think the question was
2. Hear the actual question, stop and pause for at least 1 Truss Second.
3. Attempt an actual answer
4. Realise that won't work
5. Hear the question, then go to answer what you think the question was


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 30, 2022)

Cid said:


> I mean wtf? How have we got to this point...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some people thought Gordon Brown was racist after a hot mic incident with a racist comment, then David Cameron lied about reforming the NHS, then Brexit, then hell in a handcart.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 30, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I have a theory that Truss's process with this budget was pretty much the same at Putin's for invading Ukraine.
> 
> She surrounded herself with a small group of people, liable to tell her anything she wanted hear, excluded any non-barmy advisors, and allowed herself to be convinced that the ridiculous thing she wanted to achieve (massively cut taxes without also cutting spending) could be easily achieved with a single stealthy act of genius.
> 
> ...


Yep - I think the putin/urkraine analogy is a good one.  supreme arrogance, self delusion, fanatical belief in the rightness of your cause, ignoring and sideline of all dissenting voices (like ignoring the OBR and sacking the top treasury civil servant)  and surrounding yourself only with those telling you what you want to hear. And also the violence of the action. This was a smash and grab on teh economy. And similarly the expectation that it would be met by a enthusiasm - in the governments case - by the markets.
Also the timing - it was launched at the start of the conference season - so parliament is in recess for three weeks - so there can be no debate in parliament - and prevent trouble from their own mps.  It  would also overshadow the labour party conference - (instead the labour conference became part of the story as they had a ready made media platform to say "what the fuck are you doing?" whilst looking like the grown ups). Then  I guess the gruesome two some would boss the tory party conference whilst being hailed by the faithful for their bold brilliance
I dont buy the idea that the market chaos was "part of the plan" - but Im curious as to what extent they expected Stirling to fall - did they expect some devaluation but not realise the disastrous knock on effect? The massive hike in government borrowing rates is an absolute body blow to the nations finances and the accompanying - inevitable - rise in interest rates cancels out the growth generated by borrowing umpteen billion to pump into the economy via tax cuts. Truss is a fucking moron - but surely this sort of stuff is really basic level economics and Kwarting presumably understands it.
I guess  they were thinking initial turbulence followed by a turbo charged economy powering brextiantia into the sunlit uplands. Not the BofE having to make huge emergency interventions to save the nations pensions, the IMF throwing a fit and a 33% labour lead in the polls.
Right now I guess they are in denial and it will be all swivel eyed "hold fast - hang in there - will we win through" .


----------



## kabbes (Sep 30, 2022)

tommers said:


> NHS. Reduced public pension. Removal / gutting of welfare. America, essentially.



These things did not come about through largesse, though.  They came about because of biopower — the need of the state to rely on the reproduction of labour and a healthy workforce.  The power of the establishment is reliant on them, and gutting them will cause problems for those with power as well as those without.  And there is a normalisation process by which the way people understand the nature of their relationship with the state includes certain things.  Removing them impacts the social order, and it becomes hard to predict what comes next.

None of which means that Truss and co won’t try to achieve their aims.  I’m just saying that if you intervene in a complex dynamic system like this, the outcome is not linear.  You don’t just remove welfare and turn into America, basically.  You may alternatively turn into Syria.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 30, 2022)

tommers said:


> NHS. Reduced public pension. Removal / gutting of welfare.


These are appalling of course, but they have been happening for decades, under both Labour, Tory and LD governments (and devolved governments).
I'd argue that Stamer and Rachel 'tougher than the Tories' Reeves are exactly this. Cooper was a member of a government that was involved in exactly these things.

What is different is that in 2022 capital (with the LP behind) generally recognises that the shrinking the state much further is not only producing no benefits but is harmful to it.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 30, 2022)

😂


----------



## killer b (Sep 30, 2022)

dude, if you must post shit viral content could you at least post shit viral content that hasn't already been posted days ago?


----------



## Cid (Sep 30, 2022)

Useful thread:









						A thread for posting memes and pisstakes of Truss, her government, and the end of the world
					

donkyboy  PR1Berske    Knock yourselves out lads




					www.urban75.net


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 30, 2022)

killer b said:


> dude, if you must post shit viral content could you at least post shit viral content that hasn't already been posted days ago?


Make me


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 30, 2022)

kabbes said:


> These things did not come about through largesse, though.  They came about because of biopower — the need of the state to rely on the reproduction of labour and a healthy workforce.  The power of the establishment is reliant on them, and gutting them will cause problems for those with power as well as those without.  And there is a normalisation process by which the way people understand the nature of their relationship with the state includes certain things.  Removing them impacts the social order, and it becomes hard to predict what comes next.
> 
> None of which means that Truss and co won’t try to achieve their aims.  I’m just saying that if you intervene in a complex dynamic system like this, the outcome is not linear.  You don’t just remove welfare and turn into America, basically.  You may alternatively turn into Syria.


Yes. There was the FT article up thread about our politicians paying too much attention to US politics and forgetting that we're not a large nation with an internal market of 300 million people. We're also not a pioneer culture with massive religious and other structures dedicated to self sufficiency and in group mutual aid.


----------



## killer b (Sep 30, 2022)

ok.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 30, 2022)

killer b said:


> ok.


If you think I'm talking shit, at least say why. I have family and friends in the mid West and visiting them, generally people are religious, and the churches there help you build a house, people feed each other etc.

I'm not saying there's no miserable poverty, but that people don't expect the state to assist and many middle class people have non state structures around to help in hard times. Everyone grows food. There's no comparable stuff here.


----------



## killer b (Sep 30, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> If you think I'm talking shit, at least say why. I have family and friends in the mid West and visiting them, generally people are religious, and the churches there help you build a house, people feed each other etc.
> 
> I'm not saying there's no miserable poverty, but that people don't expect the state to assist and many middle class people have non stare structures around to help in hard times. There's no comparable stuff here.


that was meant to be a reply to the post above yours sorrry!


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Sep 30, 2022)




----------



## Supine (Sep 30, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> We're also not a pioneer culture with massive religious and other structures dedicated to self sufficiency and in group mutual aid.



As a nation we’re literally the people who didn’t go pioneering in the americas!


----------



## xenon (Sep 30, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Make me


You were the third person to post it. Just saying like, might be an idea to read the thread before chucking in a rubbish meme.

DO what you want of course but I never click on that stuff as I can make my 
own jokes anywayz. Satire is dead or sommat.


----------



## fucthest8 (Sep 30, 2022)

LOL!


----------



## Wilf (Sep 30, 2022)

fucthest8 said:


> LOL!
> 
> View attachment 345149


That body language is screaming 'awful meeting, can't even look at each other. As soon as we get away from the cameras we can start effing and jeffing'.


----------



## fucthest8 (Sep 30, 2022)

Wilf said:


> That body language is screaming 'awful meeting, can't even look at each other. As soon as we get away from the cameras we can start effing and jeffing'.



Innit
"Just keep walking, keep your head up and DON'T FUCKING SPEAK TO ANYONE
As soon as we get in the car I'm letting out SUCH a string of fucks"


----------



## killer b (Sep 30, 2022)

The OBR is a neoliberal enforcer set up by George Osborne guys.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 30, 2022)

xenon said:


> You were the third person to post it. Just saying like, might be an idea to read the thread before chucking in a rubbish meme.
> 
> DO what you want of course but I never click on that stuff as I can make my
> own jokes anywayz. Satire is dead or sommat.


I have been following the thread but haven't seen it already posted and I guess theres a fair amount of pages. Just thought I'd share a short, funny video about Liz Truss that some people might like thats all. It made me laugh so I thought it might make others laugh aswell. But clearly that was a mistake.

This place is weird, but it was ever thus.


----------



## Cid (Sep 30, 2022)

killer b said:


> The OBR is a neoliberal enforcer set up by George Osborne guys.



Kind of the point surely?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 30, 2022)

Wilf said:


> That body language is screaming 'awful meeting, can't even look at each other. As soon as we get away from the cameras we can start effing and jeffing'.



I had assumed Truss would use the OBR meeting to provide cover and to say following discussions the tax cut for those at the top was being delayed to next April and that the OBR had agreed to work with the CX to cost how spending cuts would pay for the tax cuts etc and this would be presented to the HoC etc. Doesn't look like it though....incredibly bad political judgement if so.

btw, effing and jeffing is a phrase I haven't heard for years. Time to bring it back...


----------



## killer b (Sep 30, 2022)

Cid said:


> Kind of the point surely?


While its fun to watch and everything, it's worth remembering that most of the institutions which have been kicking up a stink these past few days would be kicking up a similar stink against any transformational programme of government we'd like to happen too.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 30, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I had assumed Truss would use the OBR meeting to provide cover and to say following discussions the tax cut for those at the top was being delayed to next April and that the OBR had agreed to work with the CX to cost how spending cuts would pay for the tax cuts etc and this would be presented to the HoC etc. Doesn't look like it though....incredibly bad political judgement if so.
> 
> btw, effing and jeffing is a phrase I haven't heard for years. Time to bring it back...


I think the really worrying thing is your idea they might see this as that final adjustment where the welfare state is wiped out and public spending permanently cut below the bone.  You could be right that through some mixture of ideology and Naomi Klein type idea of crisis as opportunity, they could be seeing an end game in all this. And certainly, markets would be happy to see that 'reassurance'.  It's just how do they think they will carry it off politically?  They very much risk reviving the left and/or working class protest and will also be hit with the protest of those with mortgages.  I can't see Labour sustaining anything like the leads they have now but equally, 10%+ leads are normally the point where you think about changing leaders or hit the panic button.

I suppose the point I'm getting at is that this produces true horrors for large parts of the working class and varying degrees of discomfort for different segments of the middle class. Even more, a real sense that it isn't a 'temporary' problem, something systemic.  People will be more likely to connect the horrors in their own budget with the next wave of NHS privatisation.  True, Labour won't overturn everything, but politicians who have a 'project' usually see themselves being in office to delver the thing.


----------



## Petcha (Sep 30, 2022)

fucthest8 said:


> LOL!
> 
> View attachment 345149



48 minutes. Taking out the time to sign in, pleasantries before and after the meeting, that's probably about 30 minutes of actual conversation. wtf. this is actually quite serious guys.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

I don’t get it. What is the intended end point for this. Do they genuinely not understand that if people haven’t the money to buy even the basics we won’t be able to “kick start the economy”.

I know the stupid is in full effect here but even if we accept that this is just a mathematical formula and the real life effects are invisible to them, the way they’ve applied the formula doesn’t make sense. 

What do the Trussers actually think is going to happen next? What is their most optimistic assumption about their intended outcomes?


If we all die in a ditch there won’t be anyone left to tax. Their money machine will grind to a halt.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

Are they all just a bunch of accelerationists?


----------



## Karl Masks (Sep 30, 2022)

Petcha said:


> 48 minutes. Taking out the time to sign in, pleasantries before and after the meeting, that's probably about 30 minutes of actual conversation. wtf. this is actually quite serious guys.


Walks in..

"Hi, I'm Liz, this is Kwasi"

Walks out...


----------



## Spandex (Sep 30, 2022)

Petcha said:


> 48 minutes. Taking out the time to sign in, pleasantries before and after the meeting, that's probably about 30 minutes of actual conversation. wtf. this is actually quite serious guys.


This meeting was just a bit of political theatre to be seen to be doing something without doing anything. The OBR offered to do a report, was asked not to. Economy collapsed. Now they've been asked to do a report. They'll have it ready by next week. Truss/Kwarteng say they'll publish it 23rd November. Could've all been done with a few emails.


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 30, 2022)

Turns out she's not quite got the face for an Ayn Rand mashup.


----------



## Knotted (Sep 30, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Corbyn would have been worse is the dumbest defence going. Maybe he would or maybe he wouldn't but he never got to be PM. Saying that the current shitshow is OK because we (might) have dodged a worst shitshow is the ultimate in whataboutery.



A lot of people need to justify to themselves why they voted Tory last election.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 30, 2022)

I notice they are not publishing the OBR report till the 23rd November (they get it 7th October). Strikes me that Labour could seek earlier publication when the recess is over, as a semi-safe (or at least non-vonc) issue to start getting a few tories to rebel or abstain.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> I don’t get it. What is the intended end point for this. Do they genuinely not understand that if people haven’t the money to buy even the basics we won’t be able to “kick start the economy”.
> 
> I know the stupid is in full effect here but even if we accept that this is just a mathematical formula and the real life effects are invisible to them, the way they’ve applied the formula doesn’t make sense.
> 
> ...


Yep, even those who might have been thinking about launching a small business will be faced with higher interest rates.  And a fair proportion of the rest of the population will be missing meals and getting the electric and gas cut off.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> I don’t get it. What is the intended end point for this. Do they genuinely not understand that if people haven’t the money to buy even the basics we won’t be able to “kick start the economy”.
> 
> I know the stupid is in full effect here but even if we accept that this is just a mathematical formula and the real life effects are invisible to them, the way they’ve applied the formula doesn’t make sense.
> 
> ...



It's a case of admit defeat or plough on regardless, like Putin.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 30, 2022)

People Polling have another 30% Labour lead.  Their client is GB News, yuk, but still, fuel on the fire:









						Welcome - PeoplePolling
					

Welcome to PeoplePolling PeoplePolling provides services that enable clients to tap into public opinion in novel and systematic ways. We offer solutions to understand public opinion with data from representative surveys, focus groups, social media and other data sources to fully capture and...



					peoplepolling.org


----------



## Wilf (Sep 30, 2022)

What's interesting is that there's hardly any movement in the lib dems polling numbers, this is all - as much as you generalise - straight Con to Lab.  Whilst that's generally good for Labour, I'm not sure how it works out constituency by constituency.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 30, 2022)




----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

Raheem said:


> It's a case of admit defeat or plough on regardless, like Putin.



Not the fall out, the idea, the “mini-budget” . They didn’t formulate that with the intention to fuck it uo. They made that plan because they thought it would work in some way. So what did they think it would do?


Setting aside the question of incompetence and ineptitude etc. what was the intention here? What did they think was actually going to happen as a result of this “financial intervention“.?

Why was Truss floated as a candidate at all if she was known to be this inept? So she must have been seen to have some kind of substance, right? Or is that wrong?

Or is this all and only KK’s idea and he’s the totally inept one? If so, was it given the nod?


What am I missing here?
Or am I mistaken in assuming they had any end point in mind? If so, what was the purpose of this ?

Is this a stupid question?


----------



## Duncan2 (Sep 30, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Even Dan Snow is taking the piss.



Never rated Dan Snow but that has got to be one of the funniest lines I ever heard


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

To use the analogy in that tweet posted by Jeff Robinson 


Why did they set fire to the house in the first place? What was the purpose of that? What did they think would happen?

Madness and stupidity is not the right answer. They had some intention. What was that intention.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> Not the fall out, the idea, the “mini-budget” . They didn’t formulate that with the intention to fuck it uo. They made that plan because they thought it would work in some way. So what did they think it would do?
> 
> 
> Setting aside the question of incompetence and ineptitude etc. what was the intention here? What did they think was actually going to happen as a result of this “financial intervention“.?
> ...


Trussnomics - cut taxes, raise borrowing, Magic! - was clearly signalled in the early tory leadership debates. This is what the tories voted for.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Trussnomics - cut taxes, raise borrowing, Magic! - was clearly signalled in the early tory leadership debates. This is what the tories voted for.



Yes, but what is the intent behind this general policy.

What do they intend as the result from this kind of foundational deconstruction.

What is the desired outcome.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> To use the analogy in that tweet posted by Jeff Robinson
> 
> 
> Why did they set fire to the house in the first place? What was the purpose of that? What did they think would happen?
> ...




pure arrogance on both of them wanted to be seen as Maggie spiritual successors

did not think past the headlines the following day


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> pure arrogance on both of them wanted to be seen as Maggie spiritual successor



So why didn’t they just do Thatcher then?

Even I know Thatcher would be less destructive than this. Because this just breaks everything. Thatcherism has pulls and toggles and levers and cogs and pulleys that keep the machine going, even if that machine chews up a substantial proportion of the citizenry there is enough benefit that it can at least keep itself going.


Am I asking a stupid question?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> Yes, but what is the intent behind this general policy.
> 
> What do they intend as the result from this kind of foundational deconstruction.
> 
> What is the desired outcome.


I think you may be thinking a bit too deeply about this. The desired outcome of Truss saying that in the leadership debates was to become prime minister. Clearly the desired outcome of actually following through with it wasn't economic chaos and 30 points behind in the polls. That can be put down to stupidity, I would think.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> So why didn’t they just do Thatcher then?
> 
> Even I know Thatcher would be less destructive than this. Because this just breaks everything. Thatcherism has pulls and toggles and levers and cogs and pulleys that keep the machine going, even if that machine chews up a substantial proportion of the citizenry there is enough benefit that it can at least keep itself going.
> 
> ...


Thatcher broke everything in her first couple of years in power by following dogmatically the mad economic doctrine of monetarism - subsequently reversed cos it didn't work. They _are_ doing a Thatcher.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Trussnomics - cut taxes, raise borrowing, Magic! - was clearly signalled in the early tory leadership debates. This is what the tories voted for.



What I mean is…. It‘s so obviously not going to work. How can it work when things are so fucking bad that there is nothing left to draw on.

Cut taxes and raise borrowing doesn’t work if anyone below RICH can’t afford to buy shoes and borrowing pushes everything else off a cliff. Even I can understand that.


----------



## tommers (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> So why didn’t they just do Thatcher then?
> 
> Even I know Thatcher would be less destructive than this. Because this just breaks everything. Thatcherism has pulls and toggles and levers and cogs and pulleys that keep the machine going, even if that machine chews up a substantial proportion of the citizenry there is enough benefit that it can at least keep itself going.
> 
> ...


I wrote a long answer but binned it. Short answer is they seem to believe in it. That this will produce growth in the economy.


----------



## tommers (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> What I mean is…. It‘s so obviously not going to work. How can it work when things are so fucking bad that there is nothing left to draw on.
> 
> Cut taxes and raise borrowing doesn’t work if anyone below RICH can’t afford to buy shoes and borrowing pushes everything else off a cliff. Even I can understand that.


Teething problems. Everything will calm down soon.


----------



## prunus (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> So why didn’t they just do Thatcher then?
> 
> Even I know Thatcher would be less destructive than this. Because this just breaks everything. Thatcherism has pulls and toggles and levers and cogs and pulleys that keep the machine going, even if that machine chews up a substantial proportion of the citizenry there is enough benefit that it can at least keep itself going.
> 
> ...



If you are I’m asking myself the same stupid question.  I’d like an interviewer or MP in parliament or someone to ask “How is this supposed to work? What is the mechanism by which borrowing money to give to high earners and energy producers is supposed to grow the UK economy?  What should we expect to see in the short, medium and long term as a result so we can assess if it’s working?”


----------



## gosub (Sep 30, 2022)

Looking forward to the coverage if the tory conference


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Thatcher broke everything in her first couple of years in power by following dogmatically the mad economic doctrine of monetarism - subsequently reversed cos it didn't work. They _are_ doing a Thatcher.




Yes, but there was more leeway then, money was sluicing around more freely, and there wasn’t so much debt ( credit wasn’t a Thing then the way it is now). She broke everything but she had some kind of end point in mind and she had some people around her who seemed to have some kind of working knowledge of economics, not to mention politics.


Not saying Thatcher was better, but she was better at doing this. This dismantling thing for some projected end point.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

tommers said:


> I wrote a long answer but binned it. Short answer is they seem to believe in it. That this will produce growth in the economy.




Shame you trashed your longer post.


But it so obviously won’t. It can’t. There is nothing left that can grow. There is no industry, no service industry left. Are they really relying on the gig economy to get things going again? All those people who ere no longer unemployed because they were suddenly self employed ?Or are they expecting overseas investors to come in and build factories? Really?

So it’s really just stupidity?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> Yes, but there was more leeway then, money was sluicing around more freely, and there wasn’t so much debt ( credit wasn’t a Thing then the way it is now). She broke everything but she had some kind of end point in mind and she had some people around her who seemed to have some kind of working knowledge of economics, not to mention politics.
> 
> 
> Not saying Thatcher was better, but she was better at doing this. This dismantling thing for some projected end point.


I don't agree. The first two years of Thatcher involved following a policy that was disastrous for the UK economy and simply did not work the way it was supposed to. She was surrounded by dangerous fools, and of course was a dangerous fool herself. She tripled unemployment in those two years, having come into power on the back of a campaign that highlighted the high level of unemployment!


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

prunus said:


> If you are I’m asking myself the same stupid question.  I’d like an interviewer or MP in parliament or someone to ask “How is this supposed to work? What is the mechanism by which borrowing money to give to high earners and energy producers is supposed to grow the UK economy?  What should we expect to see in the short, medium and long term as a result so we can assess if it’s working?”



So it’s one of these questions that’s so obvious that no one thinks to ask it and then the child pipes up and everyone goes…. “Eerrrmmmm….”

Really? Is that where we are right now?


----------



## gosub (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> Not the fall out, the idea, the “mini-budget” . They didn’t formulate that with the intention to fuck it uo. They made that plan because they thought it would work in some way. So what did they think it would do?
> 
> 
> Setting aside the question of incompetence and ineptitude etc. what was the intention here? What did they think was actually going to happen as a result of this “financial intervention“.?
> ...


Quite hard not to let either a Home Sec or a Foriegn Sec consider standing when a PM needs to spend less time with his wallpaper


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 30, 2022)

hmm will Liz wind up  Argentina to save her skin


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> So it’s one of these questions that’s so obvious that no one thinks to ask it and then the child pipes up and everyone goes…. “Eerrrmmmm….”
> 
> Really? Is that where we are right now?


No of course it's not. I don't know why everyone seems to be pretending there is no answer.

The broad answer to "how is it supposed to work" is hardly hard to find.









						Reaganomics - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				












						Supply-side economics - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				












						Trickle-down economics - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				








__





						Free market - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




It's a political / economic ideology just like communism or anarchism.

Of course, because a bunch of people believe something works, doesn't mean that it works.


----------



## cesare (Sep 30, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm will Liz wind up  Argentina to save her skin


She doesn't need to, we have Ukraine already


----------



## Raheem (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> So why didn’t they just do Thatcher then?
> 
> Even I know Thatcher would be less destructive than this. Because this just breaks everything. Thatcherism has pulls and toggles and levers and cogs and pulleys that keep the machine going, even if that machine chews up a substantial proportion of the citizenry there is enough benefit that it can at least keep itself going.
> 
> ...


I don't think they had a clue that what is happening would happen.

I suspect they thought the opposite - that the markets would soar. It might seem unlikely, because we are used to government's having mountains of data and advice. But they deliberately cut themselves off from anyone with the slightest clue about anything complicated. They wanted to liberate themselves from "the orthodoxy". So, I reckon their thinking didn't really go any deeper than "city types are gonna love these tax cuts, aren't they?"

A clue to this is a deleted tweet by a treasury minister (Andrew Griffith's, I think) just after KK's speech on Friday. Just as the pound was starting to tank, he tweeted that it was great to see the pound gaining ground as a result of the announcement. I don't think he was looking at the graph upside down. I think it was a pre-written tweet ill-advisedly released by a comms
 person. They thought an instant positive reaction from the markets was a certainty.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 30, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I think the really worrying thing is your idea they might see this as that final adjustment where the welfare state is wiped out and public spending permanently cut below the bone. You could be right that through some mixture of ideology and Naomi Klein type idea of crisis as opportunity, they could be seeing an end game in all this. And certainly, markets would be happy to see that 'reassurance'. It's just how do they think they will carry it off politically?



I agree that working out what’s going on is a matter of guesswork. But what’s nagging is that the Tories (surely?) have considered the consequences of dumping the ‘red wall’ and moving decisively and visibly away from the 2019 realignment? With the cities gone, Scotland gone, Wales gone and now the red wall surely gone after the mini budget how do the Tories think they win in 2024?

The realignment was built on Brexit, borders, taking on the sneering middle class in a culture war and on the promise of investment in left behind areas who’d turned their backs on labour.

Of that list, having delivered Brexit neither Johnson and now Truss seem to have a clue what they want to do with it, border control is over as KK’s statement paves the way for the importation of cheap labour to undermine the organised working class and keep wages low and the rest of his statement put a bullet in the head of levelling up. The 2019 Tories aren’t going to vote for the party of bankers bonuses and tax cuts for the rich and corporations.
A culture war with ‘the blob’ isn’t alone going to save them in the Midlands, Wales and the North.

Given that the Tories know this as well as we do, asking and trying to work out what is going on here seems worthy of serious thought and debate. And, as you say, working out where our side goes now.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 30, 2022)

Truss met some hedge fund owners a short while before the mini budget didn't she? I'd love to know what was said. I don't believe she didn't tell them what she was going to do - even if by a nudge nudge. How would they reply: "Yes Liz that's a great plan it will totally lead to growth and a strong economy" and then go out and immediately short the pound to fuck?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 30, 2022)

S'posed to be anarchist site, but you're all moaning now we have an anarchist in Downing St;

week 1 kills the queen
week 3 smashes the capitalist 'economy' to smithereens, not just smashing the cistern but upperdecking the whole country


----------



## Rob Ray (Sep 30, 2022)

A lot of this behaviour makes more sense if Truss and co. are working on the assumption that they can't win an election by using any of the normal logics, so are essentially free to ignore the lot of it and go ham with the hope that their ideology will come up trumps by sparking an economic renaissance. And if it doesn't work who cares? They weren't on course to win anyway and now the opposition are going to have a giant pile of shit to shovel.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> No of course it's not. I don't know why everyone seems to be pretending there is no answer.
> 
> The broad answer to "how is it supposed to work" is hardly hard to find.
> 
> ...




I get that they were trying to do this. That was pretty clear on the hustings.

But this thing of being in power for two weeks, doing this financial intervention with no breakdown, refusing to take advise, all while apparently paying absolutly no attention to the real world factual events going on in real time.


Is it really that she and everyone around her is  David Brent stupid?

Or does she and the other Trussers have some path mapped out. Surely they had some notion of some kind of pathway planned out? So what was that plan.

Not the ideology. The actual plan for how to apply the ideology.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I don't think they had a clue that what is happening would happen.
> 
> I suspect they thought the opposite - that the markets would soar. It might seem unlikely, because we are used to government's having mountains of data and advice. But they deliberately cut themselves off from anyone with the slightest clue about anything complicated. They wanted to liberate themselves from "the orthodoxy". So, I reckon their thinking didn't really go any deeper than "city types are gonna love these tax cuts, aren't they?"
> 
> ...



This makes sense.

They had a plan, based on ideology, but they were too stupid to understand that it wouldn’t work in the present circumstances.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> I get that they were trying to do this. That was pretty clear on the hustings.
> 
> But this thing of being in power for two weeks, doing this financial intervention with no breakdown, refusing to take advise, all while apparently paying absolutly no attention to the real world factual events going on in real time.
> 
> ...


I think Raheem has that bit right. They expected the markets to like their mini-budget. 

Now? I'm sure they don't have a scooby what to do next. They have two options: a) they plough ahead with disastrous results for the economy or b) they backtrack with disastrous results for their credibility. Currently they appear to be attempting a). Who knows how long that will last?


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> A lot of this behaviour makes more sense if Truss and co. are working on the assumption that they can't win an election by using any of the normal logics, so are essentially free to ignore the lot of it and go ham with the hope that their ideology will come up trumps by sparking an economic renaissance. And if it doesn't work who cares? They weren't on course to win anyway and now the opposition are going to have a giant pile of shit to shovel.



Yes. It’s win win. Or a zero sum game.


Either they’ll win the next election, or they’ll lose it. If they lose it, Labour will be the next government. (Libs are out for the foreseeable.) Then Labour will fail, and the tories get back in again, having had a couple of years to regroup.


----------



## story (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think Raheem has that bit right. They expected the markets to like their mini-budget.
> 
> Now? I'm sure they don't have a scooby what to do next. They have two options: a) they plough ahead with disastrous results for the economy or b) they backtrack with disastrous results for their credibility. Currently they appear to be attempting a). Who knows how long that will last?




God it’s all so fucking grim and depressing.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 30, 2022)

cesare said:


> She doesn't need to, we have Ukraine already




Crimean War 2; Electric Boogaloo


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

story said:


> Not the ideology. The actual plan for how to apply the ideology.


Do tax cuts is a fundamental part of the ideology.

So they did tax cuts.

The bit that hasn't gone to plan, is that the markets (which is just a bunch of people with opinions in the end really) didn't agree that doing this was a good idea.

What's vaguely interesting to me is how much of the discussion about this being reckless uses the market reaction as the evidence that it was reckless - and this from people who wouldn't usually use "stock market response" as their measure of whether something is or isn't a good idea.

If everything settles down again, the pound regains its value or whatever, will that be taken as an indication that it wasn't a stupid idea after all?


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 30, 2022)

killer b said:


> While its fun to watch and everything, it's worth remembering that most of the institutions which have been kicking up a stink these past few days would be kicking up a similar stink against any transformational programme of government we'd like to happen too.


This a million times. 
What has happened with this mini-statement would be nothing compared to the fights any even mildly hard social democratic (let alone socialist) government would have.


----------



## prunus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> No of course it's not. I don't know why everyone seems to be pretending there is no answer.
> 
> The broad answer to "how is it supposed to work" is hardly hard to find.
> 
> ...



All of those just say it works because it works (well, actually they say it doesn’t work, but some people believe it does). So fine, they believe it does. I want to know _why_ they believe it does. 

Ie we do it [cut taxes], and then this happens, then this happens, then this happens and profit!

I want to know what (in their minds) all the ‘this’s’ in the middle are.  

Because if they’ve no idea, then it truly is voodoo economics (Krugman).


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Sep 30, 2022)

Just out of interest, are the people currently causing the devaluation of the pound the same ones who have just had the cap on their bonuses removed? Or is that another bunch of bloodsuckers?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 30, 2022)

I've noticed that the word 'ideology' has become more and more used in the last 5 years, usually as a curse word to describe the unworkability of anything left of thatcher. Thats usual thing of 'ideology is like bad breath, its always something the other fellow has'. But its clear here. Having had the power and social status to shape their own immediate reality for so long they become convinced that the world will play along and when it doesn't, well. Here we are.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

prunus said:


> All of those just say it works because it works (well, actually they say it doesn’t work, but some people believe it does). So fine, they believe it does. I want to know _why_ they believe it does.
> 
> Ie we do it [cut taxes], and then this happens, then this happens, then this happens and profit!
> 
> ...


It's fairly basic isn't it - taxing people's earnings reduces the incentive for them to do work. Reduce tax, increase incentive. More work. More stuff for everyone.

The say that the general "more stuff for everyone" outweighs any effect of the stuff being concentrated in the hands of not everyone.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's fairly basic isn't it - taxing people's earnings reduces the incentive for them to do work. Reduce tax, increase incentive. More work. More stuff for everyone.
> 
> The say that the general "more stuff for everyone" outweighs any effect of the stuff being concentrated in the hands of not everyone.


No, no no. Reduce tax, reduce the need to work so much. Less work. Less stuff for people.


----------



## maomao (Sep 30, 2022)

tommers said:


> I wrote a long answer but binned it. Short answer is they seem to believe in it. That this will produce growth in the economy.


I don't think they do and I think this has been repeatedly mislabeled as trickle down when they've never suggested it will make the poor better off. They've said it's fairer, that it's good for people, even when she says 'there'll be a bigger pie' she doesn't say that the poor will get bigger slices, just that the pie will be bigger. I think the tax cuts _are_ the aim. This is about redistribution and little else.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

By the way, I'd like someone who really knows about this stuff, to go through everything here






						Income Tax factsheet
					






					www.gov.uk
				




And comment on which statements are basically true, and which are misleading or selective in the information they present.

For example



> Currently the 45% rate is higher than the top national rate of Income Tax for G7 countries like the US and Italy. And it is higher than social democracies like Norway.



I'm aware that the income tax rate isn't the end of the story ... there is a whole bunch of other stuff to do with pensions and national insurance and other things that actually determine how much anyone is "taxed" but it's so complicated I end up giving up trying to understand it all.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2022)

Excuse me if I’m being dim as economics make my head spin - we’ve cut income tax for rich people and are funding this by borrowing from those very same rich people, so all Truss/Kwarteng have done is turn a tax into a massive loan that we might not be able to pay back if the economy continues to tank?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

It's just cherrypicking. The UK's top rate is higher than some countries, lower than others, but picking out oil-rich Norway is disingenuous. 45% is lower than the rest of Scandinavia, so 'social democracies like Norway' means Norway, and, um, Norway.


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## Storm Fox (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's fairly basic isn't it - taxing people's earnings reduces the incentive for them to do work. Reduce tax, increase incentive. More work. More stuff for everyone.
> 
> The say that the general "more stuff for everyone" outweighs any effect of the stuff being concentrated in the hands of not everyone.


What a sad, mean-spirited, fucked up worldview. If you are lucky enough to be earning enough to be in the highest tax bracket, you should be happy to pay a bit more for those less fortunate than yourself and contribute a bit more to society. If it wasn't for society that wealth wouldn't exist.


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## PR1Berske (Sep 30, 2022)

From Guido (so obvious caveats)




> With the pound bouncing around all over the place, backbenchers already rebelling and a 30-point poll lead for Labour, Tory MPs are seemingly receiving increasing emails from constituents asking when they might be allowed to have their say on the new government. In answering these voters’ inquiries, staffers’ eyebrows have been raised after they received guidance from their Parliamentary Research Unit, a Conservative Party briefing team in parliament who feed lines to MPs’ caseworkers based on information from departments, ministers and SpAds. The line they’ve been sent in full:
> 
> _“At this moment, it is my understanding that the Government intends to stick to the election timeline of January 2025, whereby a general election will be held._”
> 
> Guido’s sure activists, MP hopefuls and journalists alike will be joyous at the thought of a January election. Like 2019’s December campaign without the hope of Christmas to get you through…


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> What a sad, mean-spirited, fucked up worldview.


If someone genuinely believes it, then it's not mean-spirited.


----------



## Storm Fox (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> If someone genuinely believes it, then it's not mean-spirited.


What a sad, mean-spirited deluded, fucked up worldview.

FTFM

Trickle down has been show time and time again not to work.


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## two sheds (Sep 30, 2022)

Truss believes the established principle that rich people need more money as incentive to work while poor people need less, doesn't she?


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> If someone genuinely believes it, then it's not mean-spirited.


What people choose to believe can say a lot about them, though. 

The basic formulation is pretty questionable anyway. Reducing the income of the poor (whether by increasing their taxes, cutting wages or increasing their costs) gives them incentive to work more as they have to put in more hours to make ends meet. Yet reducing the income of the rich is supposed to make them work less.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Truss believes the established principle that rich people need more money as incentive to work while poor people need less, doesn't she?


Problem is that we're just not unequal enough.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 30, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Given that the Tories know this as well as we do, asking and trying to work out what is going on here seems worthy of serious thought and debate. And, as you say, working out where our side goes now.


My reaction to that is there is no such things as The Tories - its a coalition of cunts - a full spectrum - this lot seem to be a very particularly batshit sect within the larger party. I'm not sure if they are that invested in that earlier levelling up hot air etc strategy. I think theyve got their own vision and whatever fresh hell it is theyre going to run with it. I also don't put it past them to turn things around, play some culture war cards, war with the EU, god knows what etc, before the election comes around. A long long way to go yet.


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## prunus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's fairly basic isn't it - taxing people's earnings reduces the incentive for them to do work. Reduce tax, increase incentive. More work. More stuff for everyone.
> 
> The say that the general "more stuff for everyone" outweighs any effect of the stuff being concentrated in the hands of not everyone.



Ok, so following that through (not arguing with you per se, just playing with the idea); it can only apply to people who can actually control how much they work; most people have very little control over that (I believe?). 

Anyway, so what we should see in the short? medium? term therefore is an uptick in productivity per capita (though not per hour worked, that’s likely to tick down, marginal utility and so on), would that be right?   So let’s call that GDP per capita, or over a short enough time frame GDP. 

Great, GDP is going to go up. 

GDP is about £2.2t, uk tax take is about 30% of that. So if GDP goes up 5%, tax take goes up about £35b.  So we need a GDP increase of about 6.5% to just break even on the £45b cost of the tax cuts. Does that sound about right?


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## Karl Masks (Sep 30, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Truss believes the established principle that rich people need more money as incentive to work while poor people need less, doesn't she?


I think she believes she is capable of being leader, is ambitious, and leaves it to other people to do the thinking and provide the ideology. Only a lazy mind would accept such tired economic orthodoxy given how utterly it's been debunked


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## Karl Masks (Sep 30, 2022)

gosub said:


> Looking forward to the coverage if the tory conference



Yes


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

prunus said:


> Ok, so following that through (not arguing with you per se, just playing with the idea); it can only apply to people who can actually control how much they work; most people have very little control over that (I believe?).
> 
> Anyway, so what we should see in the short? medium? term therefore is an uptick in productivity per capita (though not per hour worked, that’s likely to tick down, marginal utility and so on), would that be right?   So let’s call that GDP per capita, or over a short enough time frame GDP.
> 
> ...


My understanding is that it's something like that in principle but I've no idea about the numbers.

It would be interesting to see it argued out with someone who fully believes in it all, something that will never happen on urban75 because they would get written off as a despicable heartless monster before such a discussion were to take place.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> My understanding is that it's something like that in principle but I've no idea about the numbers.
> 
> It would be interesting to see it argued out with someone who fully believes in it all, something that will never happen on urban75 because they would get written off as a despicable heartless monster before such a discussion were to take place.


Nah. They'd be countered with counter arguments, that's all. Have you seen the bitcoin thread? Rabid r/w libertarian anti-state nutters with mad ideas have been banging on about those ideas for pages and pages and pages. Plenty have argued with them. Nobody has stopped them from posting. 

But sometimes a shit idea is just a shit idea, and the intellectual arguments in its favour are just bad. We're not missing something important here.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's just cherrypicking. The UK's top rate is higher than some countries, lower than others, but picking out oil-rich Norway is disingenuous. 45% is lower than the rest of Scandinavia, so 'social democracies like Norway' means Norway, and, um, Norway.


Think Norway also has a wealth tax, so comparing income tax rates is completely misleading.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 30, 2022)

Referencing trickledown reaganomics whatevs is all fine but it was a lifetime ago. In financial terms, it was Carboniferous era stuff and we are in the economic Holocene now. Need perspective when referencing the past


----------



## Wilf (Sep 30, 2022)

By the by, another lead over 30% - Omniss.






						Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Tories will be proper shitting it this weekend.  Another (small but relevant) dimension of this is how truss comes across as a person.  A deeply unsympathetic person doing horrible things to you >>>> astronomical Labour leads.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Think Norway also has a wealth tax, so comparing income tax rates is completely misleading.


Probably. The best way to compare countries' taxes is to compare the overall tax take as a proportion of GDP. The UK is medium-low by European standards. This table is from 2019. Norway is indeed higher, so yes, they collect their tax in other ways.



There's quite a major trend in there. With a couple of striking exceptions, the richer countries tend to have higher taxes than the poorer countries (higher in terms of percentage and much higher in terms of absolute amounts).


----------



## andysays (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> My understanding is that it's something like that in principle but I've no idea about the numbers.
> 
> It would be interesting to see it argued out with someone who fully believes in it all, *something that will never happen on urban75 because they would get written off as a despicable heartless monster before such a discussion were to take place.*



What you're referring to here is Urban75's lack of empathy for ordinary people who favour borrowing billions to slash taxes for the highest earners on the spurious and self-serving idea that it will somehow stimulate investment and boost the economy.

ETA "millions" corrected to "billions"


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nah. They'd be countered with counter arguments, that's all. Have you seen the bitcoin thread? Rabid r/w libertarian anti-state nutters with mad ideas have been banging on about those ideas for pages and pages and pages. Plenty have argued with them. Nobody has stopped them from posting.
> 
> But sometimes a shit idea is just a shit idea, and the intellectual arguments in its favour are just bad. We're not missing something important here.



I haven't followed that thread. But "rabid r/w libertarian anti-state nutters" might not be the best representatives for fairly conventional conservative views on taxation.

Although these recent changes are being talked about as if they are somehow radical, I don't see that they are more than twiddling of dials on a system that most people seem ok with in principle:


you can get paid different amounts for doing different things
you get taxed a percentage of what you get paid
the more you get paid, the higher that percentage is

Nothing that's been announced changes any of that.

Kwarteng / Truss seem to think adjusting two dials (lower rate from 20% to 19% and highest rate from 45% to 40%) is a good idea, loads of people don't.

You can look at their "ideology" and do an ad absurdium thing and say if they really believe this why don't they just make all tax 1% or something.

But anyone who doesn't believe that we should do something like equalise all pay (of course some people do think that) kind of agrees to some extent with Kwarteng/Truss don't they?

By that I mean, even if you think tax rates should be (for example)  0% / 10% / 40% / 80% instead of 0% / 20% / 40% / 45% then you are still subscribing to some of the same basic ideas. Basic ideas about people being incentivised by the amount of money they can earn.

This is why I don't really see why some people are willing to consider the ideas behind these kinds of approaches as so whacky and obviously irrefutably wrong that they just can't get their head around how someone else could believe in them at all, and start inventing conspiracy theories to explain it.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 30, 2022)




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## not-bono-ever (Sep 30, 2022)

Let’s firm up the barricades of free choice and defeat the communist scum


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## Kevbad the Bad (Sep 30, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Let’s firm up the barricades of free choice and defeat the communist scum


And make global warming go away by ignoring it.


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## maomao (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> By that I mean, even if you think tax rates should be (for example) 0% / 10% / 40% / 80% instead of 0% / 20% / 40% / 45% then you are still subscribing to some of the same basic ideas. Basic ideas about people being incentivised by the amount of money they can earn.


Nonsense. None of my reasons for taxation have anything to do with incentivising people to work at all.


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## Raheem (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I haven't followed that thread. But "rabid r/w libertarian anti-state nutters" might not be the best representatives for fairly conventional conservative views on taxation.
> 
> Although these recent changes are being talked about as if they are somehow radical, I don't see that they are more than twiddling of dials on a system that most people seem ok with in principle:
> 
> ...


It's not that the particular tax rates are inherently headbanger extremist. We've had a 40% top rate before, and even a 10% starting rate, without it crashing the economy.

The nuts part is the overall cash figure of £45 billion, annually, funded by borrowing.  The "theory" being that this pays for itself by stimulating enormous economic growth. Except it isn't proper economics, it's the type of thing you might see on YouTube.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

Raheem said:


> It's not that the particular tax rates are inherently headbanger extremist. We've had a 40% top rate before, and even a 10% starting rate, without it crashing the economy.
> 
> The nuts part is the overall cash figure of £45 billion, annually, funded by borrowing.  The "theory" being that this pays for itself by stimulating enormous economic growth. Except it isn't proper economics, it's the type of thing you might see on YouTube.


I don't have a problem with govt borrowing per se. Others are right of course when they point out that a l/w govt would also be punished by the markets for  borrowing to nationalise, for example. Labour governments aren't allowed to do this kind of thing. 

My problem is with the basic iniquity of the whole thing. The rich aren't taxed enough. That's a moral point, not an economic theory one.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't have a problem with govt borrowing per se. Others are right of course when they point out that a l/w govt would also be punished by the markets for  borrowing to nationalise, for example. Labour governments aren't allowed to do this kind of thing.
> 
> My problem is with the basic iniquity of the whole thing. The rich aren't taxed enough. That's a moral point, not an economic theory one.


Yes, it's also a ridiculously unfair and socially damaging proposal, but that's not why it has caused the meltdown it has.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 30, 2022)

Revisionist Starmer Clique Smashing Barbaric Truss-Kwarteng Clique


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

maomao said:


> Nonsense. None of my reasons for taxation have anything to do with incentivising people to work at all.


I don't think I suggested that anyone's "reasons for taxation" are to do with incentivising people to work.

I'm talking about how you decide how much tax people should pay.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 30, 2022)

Another poll not looking good for the Barbaric Truss Death Cult


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I don't think I suggested that anyone's "reasons for taxation" are to do with incentivising people to work.
> 
> I'm talking about how you decide how much tax people should pay.


When billionaires have to go to food banks I'd say it would be just about right.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't have a problem with govt borrowing per se. Others are right of course when they point out that a l/w govt would also be punished by the markets for  borrowing to nationalise, for example. Labour governments aren't allowed to do this kind of thing.
> 
> My problem is with the basic iniquity of the whole thing. The rich aren't taxed enough. That's a moral point, not an economic theory one.


Do you have some numbers you'd set tax rates at, and a reasoning behind choosing those numbers?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> When billionaires have to go to food banks I'd say it would be just about right.


Feel free to outline your proposed system.


----------



## Sue (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> When billionaires have to go to food banks I'd say it would be just about right.


When nobody has to go to food banks would also be an improvement on the current state of affairs.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Feel free to outline your proposed system.


Tax them until they reach a state of penury necessitating charity - they think its good enough for us


----------



## maomao (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I don't think I suggested that anyone's "reasons for taxation" are to do with incentivising people to work.
> 
> I'm talking about how you decide how much tax people should pay.


So am I. And I'm saying that my calculations for that have nothing to do with incentivising work.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

maomao said:


> So am I. And I'm saying that my calculations for that have nothing to do with incentivising work.


Let's see your calculations then


----------



## CyberRose (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Probably. The best way to compare countries' taxes is to compare the overall tax take as a proportion of GDP. The UK is medium-low by European standards. This table is from 2019. Norway is indeed higher, so yes, they collect their tax in other ways.
> View attachment 345209
> 
> 
> There's quite a major trend in there. With a couple of striking exceptions, the richer countries tend to have higher taxes than the poorer countries (higher in terms of percentage and much higher in terms of absolute amounts).


Could the higher rate of taxes collected in richer countries be because there are smaller informal economies (i.e. people making money outside the system and therefore not paying tax, or income tax and social security at least) in those countries compared with poorer countries, rather than having a higher rate of tax? In other words, the higher the informal economy, the fewer the opportunities to collect tax? This graph, with a few exceptions, is almost the inverse of the graph you posted...







__





						Informal / Shadow Economy Size | By Country | 2022 | Data | World Economics
					

An informal economy (informal sector or shadow economy) is the part of any economy that is neither offically taxed nor monitored.




					www.worldeconomics.com


----------



## maomao (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Let's see your calculations then


Tax the rich till they squeak, renationalise everything that's been privatised, nationalise lots of what's left, three day working weeks all round.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Tax them until they reach a state of penury necessitating charity - they think its good enough for us


That seems outside of the scope of a discussion about income tax because surely you also have to start seizing their assets in order to achieve that.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

maomao said:


> Tax the rich till they squeak, renationalise everything that's been privatised, nationalise lots of what's left, three day working weeks all round.


Whatever happened to _demand the impossible_?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> That seems outside of the scope of a discussion about income tax because surely you also have to start seizing their assets in order to achieve that.


Bring it on.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2022)

Ignore him, he’s just trying to ‘_epater les beans_’


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Bring it on.


Fine. That's old hat though, and a different discussion.


----------



## maomao (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Whatever happened to _demand the impossible_?


Well it's a bit extreme but while recent events are the result of extreme fuckwittery the real mistakes are embedded far deeper in the system.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Fine. That's old hat though, and a different discussion.


All the time you talk about taxing declared/known incomes you're discussing taxing earned income; the parasites don't visibly earn anything to tax before it's stashed away in the tax havens.


----------



## Sue (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> That seems outside of the scope of a discussion about income tax because surely you also have to start seizing their assets in order to achieve that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> Could the higher rate of taxes collected in richer countries be because there are smaller informal economies (i.e. people making money outside the system and therefore not paying tax, or income tax and social security at least) in those countries compared with poorer countries, rather than having a higher rate of tax? In other words, the higher the informal economy, the fewer the opportunities to collect tax? This graph, with a few exceptions, is almost the inverse of the graph you posted...
> 
> View attachment 345225
> 
> ...


That's a good point. Still leaves the state without money to spend on services, though. Bulgarians get fuck all from the state, for example. Really fuck all - their health care system is appalling.

Switzerland is the massive outlier - lowest tax intake and smallest informal economy. UK manages to have a medium-low tax intake and one of the smallest informal economies. If anything the combination of the two graphs shows the UK's tax rates as comparatively even lower.


----------



## Elpenor (Sep 30, 2022)

With the polls looking this bad there’s only one option for Truss now - to sink the Belgrano


----------



## killer b (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> That seems outside of the scope of a discussion about income tax because surely you also have to start seizing their assets in order to achieve that.


Talk dirty to me.


----------



## moochedit (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> That seems outside of the scope of a discussion about income tax because surely you also have to start seizing their assets in order to achieve that.



Wealth tax you mean. 






						Wealth tax - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

brogdale said:


> All the time you talk about taxing declared/known incomes you're discussing taxing earned income; the parasites don't visibly earn anything to tax before it's stashed away in the tax havens.


So you don't care whether higher rate income tax is set at 45 or 40 pc then?


----------



## gosub (Sep 30, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> With the polls looking this bad there’s only one option for Truss now - to sink the Belgrano



What? and sit out 30 years waiting for it to emerge that it was the correct thinking?  
Don't that would be to her advantage on any level.


----------



## maomao (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> So you don't care whether higher rate income tax is set at 45 or 40 pc then?


It's the same as the royals. It's not the exact amount it costs us it's the principal of the fucking thing.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> So you don't care whether higher rate income tax is set at 45 or 40 pc then?


In the 1970s, the top rate was 83%. Returning to that would be a decent start.

Sends a clear message. _You've got enough fucking money already. _


----------



## CyberRose (Sep 30, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> With the polls looking this bad there’s only one option for Truss now - to sink the Belgrano


Unfortunately, I think she's probably thinking more along the lines of - sink the Belgranovski 😐


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> In the 1970s, the top rate was 83%. Returning to that would be a decent start.
> 
> Sends a clear message. _You've got enough fucking money already. _


Why only 83% and not 99% or 100%?


----------



## rasputin (Sep 30, 2022)

The current highest rate is 60 percent, for the band of income between £100k and £125k. After that it reverts to 40 percent.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Why only 83% and not 99% or 100%?


Good question. I'm being cautious.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> In the 1970s, the top rate was 83%. Returning to that would be a decent start.
> 
> Sends a clear message. _You've got enough fucking money already. _


unearned income top rate was 95%. Worked before and perfectly sensible - you wouldn't want any higher than that or it would start to discourage them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

Make damn sure Phil Collins never comes back.


----------



## brogdale (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> So you don't care whether higher rate income tax is set at 45 or 40 pc then?


Reflecting on what you say...call me a liberal...but I think I'd go for an upper % of 99% on earned income.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

An objection often raised is that 'the rich would leave'. 

Good. Where is the problem here? We can't afford them.


----------



## rasputin (Sep 30, 2022)

two sheds said:


> unearned income top rate was 95%. Worked before and perfectly sensible - you wouldn't want any higher than that or it would start to discourage them.


98% I believe. Comprising the basic rate plus an additional income tax surcharge of 15% on unearned income.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 30, 2022)

yep in 1979


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Good question. I'm being cautious.


What is there to be cautious about?

Also, what's the income that this highest rate applies to?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> What is there to be cautious about?
> 
> Also, what's the income that this highest rate applies to?


Yours.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

rasputin said:


> The current highest rate is 60 percent, for the band of income between £100k and £125k. After that it reverts to 40 percent.


I was looking at this graph earlier and noticed that 60% bit and trying to understand what the logic of it is.









						Marginal and average income tax rates in England, Wales and Northern Ireland | IFS Taxlab
					






					ifs.org.uk


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I was looking at this graph earlier and noticed that 60% bit and trying to understand what the logic of it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Something to do with National Insurance? That has an upper limit.


----------



## andysays (Sep 30, 2022)

It's pretty clear from teuchter's recent posts where his class allegiances lie. He obviously identifies with the so-called "wealth creators"


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 30, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>





That is actually terrifying. The government has been hijacked by dangerous zealots who are quite prepared to trash the economy, sociery and people in pursuit of their bat shit ideology. and with zero democratic mandate. It is imperative these fuckers are stopped. These is one of those occasions where the anger could be so widespread - and the opposition coming from so many places- that mass protests, occupations, strikes etc could actually bring these fuckers down. We cant wait for two long years for Kieth the beige to come along and save us.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 30, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Arab diplomats urge Liz Truss not to move British embassy to Jerusalem
> 
> 
> Private letter says ‘illegal” plan could jeopardise free trade deal between UK and Gulf Cooperation Council
> ...



From Trump. He was the last person I can recall floating the same 'idea' anyway.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 30, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Much good it may do but this seems to have taken off big time:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is well on the way to a quarter of a million signatures. However government responded with a big 'fuck you' quite some time ago



> Government responded​This response was given on 20 September 2022
> 
> 
> 
> > The UK is a Parliamentary democracy and the Conservative Party remains the majority party. The Prime Minister has pledged to ensure opportunity and prosperity for all people and future generations.


----------



## Flavour (Sep 30, 2022)

I always thought teuchter was just a dimwitted, isolated old fool, but now I realize he's an active tory. Nice


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2022)

Flavour said:


> I always thought teuchter was just a dimwitted, isolated old fool, but now I realize he's an active tory. Nice


I doubt he is any of these things


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yours.


Yeah, but this is a significant question isn't it? We can agree on a really high highest rate but then still have to decide where it starts from, which means somehow deciding what's a reasonable "maximum anyone really needs to earn".

Is anyone willing to venture a figure?


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 30, 2022)

I get the feeling the phrase 'we have and 80 seat majority, which gives the mandate to enatch these sorts of things' or words to that effect increasingly over the next few weeks or months.

Or the equally vacuous 'it would have been worse under Corbyn'.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Sep 30, 2022)

Petcha said:


> 48 minutes. Taking out the time to sign in, pleasantries before and after the meeting, that's probably about 30 minutes of actual conversation. wtf. this is actually quite serious guys.


Yes, but it doesn't take half an hour to say 'you're a pair of fucking clowns, and we think you should rein it in, but if you don't, on your heads be it'.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 30, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I get the feeling the phrase 'we have and 80 seat majority, which gives the mandate to enatch these sorts of things' or words to that effect increasingly over the next few weeks or months.
> 
> Or the equally vacuous 'it would have been worse under Corbyn'.


It was the same with Brexit, remember.
Anything goes.You gave us the right to do anything we want.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 30, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I get the feeling the phrase 'we have and 80 seat majority, which gives the mandate to enatch these sorts of things' or words to that effect increasingly over the next few weeks or months.
> 
> Or the equally vacuous 'it would have been worse under Corbyn'.




I hate being wrong



Artaxerxes said:


> What’s amazing about Johnson is that aside from the protest bill he pissed an 80 seat majority away doing nothing aside from lining pockets.
> 
> 
> More of this incompetence please


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 30, 2022)

andysays said:


> It's pretty clear from teuchter's recent posts where his class allegiances lie. He obviously identifies with the so-called "wealth creators"
> 
> View attachment 345236


oh come on, this is nonsense - he's played you for a fool if you really think that


----------



## Mezzer (Sep 30, 2022)

What a bunch of fucking incompetents. This didn’t make sense on any level. The new govt had two years to gain lost popularity and they do this? How does that make sense? Even if her ‘trickle down’ economic nonsense did pan out, it would be so far down the line that 2 years wouldn’t see the result. Check the last sentence in this Telegraph article. archive.ph.


----------



## Lurdan (Sep 30, 2022)

FT hack George Parker (its Political Editor) on the week's events and Truss for tomorrow's FT:

Seven days that shook the UK - Financial Times (archived)



> Truss and Kwarteng have long inhabited a world of free market Tory think-tanks, such as the Institute of Economic Affairs, which have nourished a view that Britain is being held back by stale, declinist, economic “orthodoxy”.
> While previous generations of Tories saw financial markets as being neutral truth-tellers to feckless governments, many on the rightwing of the Conservative party now see the markets as part of a detached elite that does not understand the potential of tax cuts to stimulate growth.





> Lord David Frost, former Brexit minister, is among those urging Truss to stand firm against the “ghastly crew” of the economic establishment. In a Friday column in the Daily Telegraph, he listed the IMF, the European Commission, the FT, the Economist and former Bank of England governor Mark Carney as being part of “the international hectoring classes” and insisted the government rejects “that defeatism”.
> This viewpoint, familiar from the 2016 Brexit debates when “experts” were derided by the Leave campaign, is important in understanding the frame of mind of Truss, as she stuck to her guns through a torrid week.





> “There’s a mindset, which has been very strong on the right of British politics for many years, which argues that the benefits of supply-side reforms, low taxes and less regulation are immense,” says David Gauke, a former cabinet colleague of Truss who is deeply critical of the “mini” Budget.



(The Lord David Frost article referred to there is this one: Why Kwarteng is right and Carney is wrong (archived))

Parker's conclusion:



> Truss arrives in Birmingham on Saturday for the annual Tory conference facing questions about her survival as prime minister, less than a month after becoming Tory leader. Some Tory MPs say they cannot vote for the fiscal plan unless it is reformed.





> But those inside Downing Street have taken some comfort in a rally in the pound towards the end of the week and insist Truss has not waited this long to implement her political vision only to be blown off course by the markets.
> “She’s very much not in the mood to budge,” says one senior government official. A cabinet minister agrees: “She’s absolutely not changing strategy . . . The situation is deadlocked. She can’t and won’t move.” But if Truss cannot show that the sums add up, the markets may yet decide otherwise.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 30, 2022)

"Woke bankers" daily mail front page before christmas


----------



## kabbes (Sep 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I was looking at this graph earlier and noticed that 60% bit and trying to understand what the logic of it is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Between two particular thresholds — I think it’s 100 and 125ish — the tax free allowance is gradually stripped away to zero. This has the effect of creating a higher marginal tax rate in this band of earnings.


----------



## SysOut (Sep 30, 2022)

These policies are just about the rich getting into siege mode and pulling up the drawbridge.

In short, the economy is not there for the general welfare, but for their welfare of the rich.

No such thing as society and all that.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 30, 2022)

Mezzer said:


> What a bunch of fucking incompetents. This didn’t make sense on any level. The new govt had two years to gain lost popularity and they do this? How does that make sense? Even if her ‘trickle down’ economic nonsense did pan out, it would be so far down the line that 2 years wouldn’t see the result. Check the last sentence in this Telegraph article. archive.ph.



They’ve lost the telegraph…


----------



## Bingoman (Sep 30, 2022)

Minister Kit Malthouse 'surprised' at market reaction to tax cuts
					

The education secretary says tax cuts were "advertised" during Liz Truss's leadership campaign.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## ska invita (Sep 30, 2022)

alex_ said:


> They’ve lost the telegraph…


far from it - front page right now




etc


----------



## steveo87 (Sep 30, 2022)

Feels strange to be looking forward to the Tory Party Conference.


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 30, 2022)

Would be interesting to be in Manchester this weekend. I bet it is usually full of happy drunk Tories, but they'll be not wanting to show their faces.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 30, 2022)

As choreographed as the labour conference you'd imagine.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Sep 30, 2022)

BusLanes said:


> Would be interesting to be in Manchester this weekend. I bet it is usually full of happy drunk Tories, but they'll be not wanting to show their faces.



There is a protest on the Sunday (there always is of course). I wasn't gonna go and didn't think it would be that big but a little tempted now.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 30, 2022)

Be sure to go to Birmingham and not Manchester though


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 30, 2022)




----------



## SpackleFrog (Oct 1, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Be sure to go to Birmingham and not Manchester though



It's in Brum? Fuck that then.


----------



## wow (Oct 1, 2022)

Truss will ride this wave…


----------



## SpackleFrog (Oct 1, 2022)

wow said:


> Truss will ride this wave…



I'm not sure she will. She clearly has no idea what she's doing and has nothing going for her. The local radio interviews this week showed she's got no idea how to manage the criticism. 

I think the Tories will look at ways to reverse these new polling trends but that may involve getting rid of her.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 1, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> View attachment 345269


levelling up taking on some new flatten everyone to a pulp meanings


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> View attachment 345269





> Britain has lived in a “fool’s paradise” for too long and must reduce public spending to help to fund the government’s £45 billion worth of tax cuts, a senior cabinet minister has warned.
> Simon Clarke, the levelling-up secretary and a key ally of Liz Truss, criticised the “very large welfare state” and said Whitehall departments would have to “trim the fat”.
> Truss and her government are attempting to reassure the markets and their own MPs after the pound fell to a record low this week and the Bank of England was forced to make a £65 billion intervention in the bond market. Labour has taken a 33-point lead over the Tories in the polls, alarming many Conservative MPs.
> Truss and her core team believe that the markets have overreacted and will recover once they have seen the full extent of her plans. They include significant cuts in public spending to shore up government finances.
> ...


Times

Those with nothing must be sacrificed for those who have too much.
The Tories are medieval.

E2A plain text of article


----------



## Sue (Oct 1, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Reflecting on what you say...call me a liberal...but I think I'd go for an upper % of 99% on earned income.


Fucking liberals.


----------



## Supine (Oct 1, 2022)

wow said:


> Truss will ride this wave…



It’s the next wave, when she gets involved in the ukraine situation, we really need to worry about.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 1, 2022)

Supine said:


> It’s the next wave, when she gets involved in the ukraine situation, we really need to worry about.


You think she might promise them armoured unicorns?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 1, 2022)

I think I predicted she'd be gone by Xmas. Perhaps she'll be gone by Hallowe'en?


----------



## flypanam (Oct 1, 2022)

SpackleFrog said:


> I'm not sure she will. She clearly has no idea what she's doing and has nothing going for her. The local radio interviews this week showed she's got no idea how to manage the criticism.
> 
> I think the Tories will look at ways to reverse these new polling trends but that may involve getting rid of her.


I genuinely think she knows what she's doing, yes she's not very able but she has a handle on the ideas of Hayek.

She has politics, but those politics are of the extreme libertarians.

I have to dig out Nancy Maclean's book Democracy in chains.

Sorry for the Monbiot link A despot in disguise: one man’s mission to rip up democracy | George Monbiot


----------



## Fuzzy (Oct 1, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Feels strange to be looking forward to the Tory Party Conference.


I know. it makes me feel a bit dirty


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 1, 2022)

She's a radical rather than an incompetent, but she's also not the first pick of her own MPs and making the classic new management error of picking every fight possible at the same time. Plus she's not very likable or charismatic. Doesn't usually leads to a long tenure.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 1, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> She's a radical rather than an incompetent, but she's also not the first pick of her own MPs and making the classic new management error of picking every fight possible at the same time. Plus she's not very likable or charismatic. Doesn't usually leads to a long tenure.


Her deficiency on the likability index will make polling recovery/convergence very difficult for the party. For whatever reasons many voters thought that blustercunt was likeable etc. which meant that huge transgressions were overlooked/forgiven. She's got none of that.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 1, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I think I predicted she'd be gone by Xmas. Perhaps she'll be gone by Hallowe'en?


Every day is halloween now


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 1, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> View attachment 345269


While I don't doubt their intentions, the Tories always say this. Much of the welfare state is pension money.

More likely an excuse to fund a new round of welfare to work rubbish that will fail, again. 

It's post hoc reasoning presented as a truism. But what is interesting is how the UC uplift narrative is still popular, for example Kay Burley f all people presenting it to Chloe Smith. The money given to the rich could fund an extension of that uplift for a consierable period. So there is sympathy fo rthe notion of icnreasing benefits.

of course the uplift completely ignored legacy benefit claimants who were, and still are, ignored completely, through no fault of their own.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> She's a radical rather than an incompetent


You can't be a radical capitalist in a capitalist system.
She's an extremist certainly, also a fundamentalist, ideologist and belongs to some sort of orthodoxy - but the connaisseurs of all the different flavours of capitalism can hopefully improve our vocabulary - anything but "Trussism" or any other term using a persons name.
Having said that... she certainly isn't  Keynsian. (What's a fitting term for that?)


----------



## kabbes (Oct 1, 2022)

SysOut said:


> You can't be a radical capitalist in a capitalist system.


Of course you can. Radicalism just means that you don’t take the way things currently work for granted and you don’t respect traditions and rituals.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Of course you can. Radicalism just means that you don’t take the way things currently work for granted and you don’t respect traditions and rituals.


Radicalism means changing the very roots of the system.
Thus, getting rid of private property would be radical.
Truss, like others, including the extreme-right (hence their name) is just taking the existing fundamentals of the the present system to extremes.
Nothing radical, but extreme.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 1, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Radicalism means changing the very roots of the system.
> Thus, getting rid of private property would be radical.
> Truss, like others, including the extreme-right (hence their name) is just taking the existing fundamentals of the the present system to extremes.
> Nothing radical, but extreme.


tearing the bottom out of the welfare state + deregulation is pretty radical


----------



## gosub (Oct 1, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Good question. I'm being cautious.


No you are not you are being idealist.   But you are right, Starmers role will be to negotiate downwards the minimum rich realistically can get away with....that is above 45%...I suggest 50%...and hold off on sending the marines into the Caymans!


----------



## andysays (Oct 1, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> oh come on, this is nonsense - he's played you for a fool if you really think that


Are you seriously claiming that isn't a picture of teuchter ?


----------



## LDC (Oct 1, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Radicalism means changing the very roots of the system.
> Thus, getting rid of private property would be radical.
> Truss, like others, including the extreme-right (hence their name) is just taking the existing fundamentals of the the present system to extremes.
> Nothing radical, but extreme.



You're just projecting your values onto the word. Radical isn't a value judgement. Radical does not = good. Plus you could argue she is changing some fundamental roots of how things have been.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 1, 2022)

Ahead of the start of the Tory Party conference tomorrow Truss and Kwarteng (and their speechwriters) have produced matching his 'n' hers newspaper columns explaining the 'necessity' of their actions. 

The column by Truss in The Sun  (archived copy of the online version here) is illustrated by a photo of her posing yesterday at a British Gas training centre.






Another picture from the same photo session appears on the same page as Kwarteng's piece in the printed version of The Telegraph  (archived copy of the online version of the article here), but in this picture she is intently examining a joint in a piece of copper pipe.

The Sun's influence is a fraction of what it once was but its editorial on the same page gives an indication of what they would like their target audience to  swallow.



Spoiler: Trigger Warning - It's The Sun Wot Wrote It



(...)

This is not to say Kwasi Kwarteng’s tax-cutting moves did not cause City turmoil. They did. We have criticised their handling, timing and lack of oversight by the OBR. But our economy was already in poor shape.

That is the legacy of the vast spending and debt binge of the Blair/Brown era, then three Tory PMs who increasingly also believed in an ever-larger State.

The result is a tax burden at a 70-year high and the long, entrenched fall in living standards which Truss, as she says opposite, is desperate to reverse.

She isn’t cutting taxes out of some weird right-wing fetish. She is convinced it will boost growth and make everyone — poor and rich — better off.

Polls look bleak for the Tories. But, given time, we believe her plan can work.

The high-tax, big-spending socialism-lite which has been the orthodoxy here for years has made Britain ever poorer and would continue doing so.

A major reset is long overdue.





> *A major reset is long overdue.*



Apparently since the last century we have been living in a regime of "high-tax, big-spending socialism-lite". Guess it's true that you "don't know what you've got till it's gone".


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

ska invita said:


> tearing the bottom out of the welfare state + deregulation is pretty radical


No it is not. It is not at all fundamental to the capitalist system and has only existed for a generation - it issomething added to the economy - on top of it , based on the ideas of people such as a Keynes.
Blair's political ally, Gerhard Schröder had already done it Germany.
It's too easy to use words emotionally and that then makes discussion incoherent - like th e use of the word "Left" and "Communist" - don't let tabloid editors control meanings!


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

LDC said:


> You're just projecting your values onto the word. Radical isn't a value judgement


Wrong - I am using the the word correctly. (the word relates to the latin word for root - and yes we learned the meaning that I have given in fucking school!)
Thus Liberals in their time were radical and revolutionary.
The treaties of Vienna in 1830 showed how radical liberals were considered - questioning divine authority🤣


----------



## gosub (Oct 1, 2022)

wow said:


> Truss will ride this wave…


Somebody had to


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 1, 2022)

andysays said:


> Are you seriously claiming that isn't a picture of teuchter ?


It’s a picture of a Moomin. Grow up


----------



## Supine (Oct 1, 2022)

Kill the queen then piss off the king


----------



## killer b (Oct 1, 2022)

How dare she disrespect the king! An outrage.


----------



## prunus (Oct 1, 2022)

Oops.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

Supine said:


> Kill the queen then piss off the king



Liz Truss orders King Charles to stay away from Cop27 climate summit | News | The Sunday Times


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 1, 2022)

_smallest violin_


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> _smallest violin_


He can sit this one out, unless anyone thinks she's in for the long term?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 1, 2022)

Supine said:


> Kill the queen then piss off the king



I struggling to find words on this atm I just in shock on that


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 1, 2022)

Genuinely though disrespecting the new king is a particularly odd and basically pointless snub to quite a large portion of her party's support base - it places her as less respectful to the monarchy than Starkers.


----------



## gosub (Oct 1, 2022)

SysOut said:


> He can sit this one out, unless anyone thinks she's in for the long term?


Big wave, can't see her surfing it. Spring /summer GE


----------



## killer b (Oct 1, 2022)

gosub said:


> Spring /summer GE


How is this going to happen?


----------



## contadino (Oct 1, 2022)

Can she order him not to attend? Is he bound by the demand?


----------



## gosub (Oct 1, 2022)

killer b said:


> How is this going to happen?


We have winter.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

contadino said:


> Can she order him not to attend? Is he bound by the demand?


Times


> They said the decision was made on the governments advice and was entirely in the spirit of being ever-mindful as King that he acts on government advice.


We don't  know what was said or even what the real issues are.


----------



## killer b (Oct 1, 2022)

gosub said:


> We have winter.


I don't understand how that makes an election happen. The government needs to call one, or they need to lose a VONC. Are you imagining 40 or more tory MPs crossing the floor? Or 40 or more tory MPs voting for their own annihilation? Or a government calling an election they're bound to lose?


----------



## gosub (Oct 1, 2022)

killer b said:


> I don't understand how that makes an election happen. The government needs to call one, or they need to lose a VONC. Are you imagining 40 or more tory MPs crossing the floor? Or 40 or more tory MPs voting for their own annihilation? Or a government calling an election they're bound to lose?


No. I'm selling a house, and going to see some mates overseas.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 1, 2022)

New poll from opinium  shows massive drop in tory support - and truss outstripping Johnson's nadia  in the negativity ratings. Some mps looking to oust her and reports that several are in talks with labour on ways to spike the budget. Opinium usually has much closer numbers than the others polling companies cos it uses its methodology to predict what might happen in an election rather than the raw numbers - so for them to be showing these sort of figures is quite something.
Tone of the report definitely suggests her being gone by Christmas is a real possibility. Which is kind of  

Voters abandon Tories as faith in economic competence dives



> Some MPs regard Truss’s performance as so poor and the budget as so disastrous that they want her removed as leader.
> 
> One former minister thought she could be forced out even before Kwarteng makes his next fiscal statement at the end of November. “I think she is gone and they just don’t realise,” he said.
> 
> ...


Shes basically shat the bed with the voters. 



> The prime minister’s net approval rating has fallen from -9 to -37 in the space of a week


----------



## Smangus (Oct 1, 2022)

She has unleashed her unpopularity.


----------



## contadino (Oct 1, 2022)

I wouldn't put much faith in the YouGov polls, because of Zahawi (probably got the arse because he didn't get to keep his job).

However the two others in the last couple of days are sweet music.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 1, 2022)

Before Christmas?


----------



## SysOut (Oct 1, 2022)

archive.ph


----------



## Cid (Oct 1, 2022)

I genuinely don't understand how someone can be this shit.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 1, 2022)

Cid said:


> I genuinely don't understand how someone can be this shit.



And how the fuck did she get to be an mp - let alone a minister - and then prime minister? She's got no emotional intelligence, shes ignorant , incapable of thinking on her feet, unpleasant, utterly intransigent, inflexible and incompetent. Shed be sacked after one shift working behind the bar for scaring the customers away.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 1, 2022)

*Upon learning what was intended, a very senior civil servant declared privately: “She is completely mad.” A senior figure at the Treasury called the decision to scrap the top rate of tax in a cost-of-living crisis “f***ing insane,” *
She's definitely hit the ground.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 1, 2022)

Cid said:


> I genuinely don't understand how someone can be this shit.



The wife doesn't pay attention to politics and I've just had to explain what the apparent plan was with the mini-budget. It didn't take long.

1) cut taxes
2) ???
3) growth!


----------



## Raheem (Oct 2, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Before Christmas?



It's worrying that the chickenshits are talking in terms of "sometime in the near future, not sure exactly when". That's a recipe for it not happening.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 2, 2022)

I don't want to be here. But look how happy I am.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 2, 2022)

Politics isnt about decision making to "run the country"  Its about self aggrandizement and personal wealth


----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

Christ. Just catching up on her performance on Kuennsberg this morning. Toe curling. She is actually very very thick isnt she.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Christ. Just catching up on her performance on Kuennsberg this morning. Toe curling. She is actually very very thick isnt she.



Did Reeves land any good punches or was it really just Truss digging her own grave?


----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Did Reeves land any good punches or was it really just Truss digging her own grave?



Not got to that bit yet. But interestingly she has thrown Kwarteng under the bus for the first time and said the upper tax rate thing was his idea and his alone.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 2, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Politics isnt about decision making to "run the country"  Its about self aggrandizement and personal wealth


She talks about making the difficult decisions but she gets them all wrong


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 2, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> She talks about making the difficult decisions but she gets them all wrong


The difficult part for her is deciding exactly how wrong she should be


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Not got to that bit yet. But interestingly she has thrown Kwarteng under the bus for the first time and said the upper tax rate thing was his idea and his alone.



She’s already declared war on over half of her MPs, so why not her chancellor as well?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 2, 2022)

Suggests she might actually ditch the upper tax rate and Kwarteng?


----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Suggests she might actually ditch the upper tax rate and Kwarteng?



That would be the smart move on her part. But she's not smart. And the overwhelming impression was of a narcissist who will not be for turning. Gove was sitting there too and put the boot in. Never thought I'd warm to him..


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 2, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> The difficult part for her is deciding exactly how wrong she should be


Very


----------



## contadino (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> That would be the smart move on her part. But she's not smart. And the overwhelming impression was of a narcissist who will not be for turning. Gove was sitting there too and put the boot in. Never thought I'd warm to him..


That suggests she has any say in the matter. She was put in place by the far right in the party and is doing what she's told.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 2, 2022)

contadino said:


> That suggests she has any say in the matter. She was put in place by the far right in the party and is doing what she's told.


Not very well


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 2, 2022)

I wonder if Gove is co-ordinating moves to bring her down and install sunak? seems the tory party split is now between the swivel eyed true believers around truss - and the rest of them.  Which puts sunak, may, gove, hunt and even johnson on the same side. the tory Brexit revolution devouring its own children.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 2, 2022)




----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>




tbf, it was a pretty daft question. her plan wouldn't be put to a vote.

kuenssberg is not a great interviewer. the local radio people did a better job earlier in the week.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 2, 2022)

Well the correct answer is about 2,000 isn't it but "how many people voted for you?" would have been better.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Well the correct answer is about 2,000 isn't it but "how many people voted for you?" would have been better.



Nobody voted for her plan or could have. I'm with Liz on this one, I'd be a tad confused by the question. Where's 2,000 coming from?

80,000 Tories voted for her to be leader but I don't think many of them knew just how batshit she was gonna be within weeks of getting in.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 2, 2022)

oops 80,000 

but fucking hell


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Nobody voted for her plan or could have. I'm with Liz on this one, I'd be a tad confused by the question. Where's 2,000 coming from?
> 
> 80,000 Tories voted for her to be leader but I don't think many of them knew just how batshit she was gonna be within weeks of getting in.


I guess the operative compnent is 'how'. Her career and conduct thus far have indicated at least some degree of horror. So, yes, the issue is how


----------



## xenon (Oct 2, 2022)

Why does she do the silence thing? Do you think it's some kinda power move or she is as I suspect, just not bright enough to have preempted what would be asked or react on the spot. Even Johnson would bloviate his way past any slightly awkward questions.


----------



## xenon (Oct 2, 2022)

I mean I could answer that fucking question off the cuff.

We have a mandate from the British people to make Britain stronger, more competative blah, blah blah.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> That would be the smart move on her part. But she's not smart.


While totally agreeing with the general sentiment, pretty much _despite_ her seeming lack of intellect she has managed to work her way to the top of the tree, so she must have some kind of... I dunno, political nous or something.

Even saying that, it does still seem hard to fathom when looking at any of the evidence.



xenon said:


> Why does she do the silence thing? Do you think it's some kinda power move or she is as I suspect, just not bright enough to have preempted what would be asked or react on the spot. Even Johnson would bloviate his way past any slightly awkward questions.


Funnily enough, for a while I've been wondering if I should do something like that, taking a moment to pause and properly process the info/question before responding, as otherwise I can often answer in a way that's not actually very helpful/relevant.

It's hard to go against the general conversational conventions that generally dictate an uninterrupted rhythm, though.

Again, not necessarily defending Truss, but just one of those things I find interesting to reconsider.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

xenon said:


> I mean I could answer that fucking question off the cuff.
> 
> We have a mandate from the British people to make Britain stronger, more competative blah, blah blah.



There were silences on other questions. I think she just takes time to process things. She also kept using the phrase 'laying the ground'. Isn't it 'laying the groundwork'? 

in the campaign she also managed to mangle the phrase 'hit the ground running' into just 'hit the ground from day one'


----------



## xenon (Oct 2, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> While totally agreeing with the general sentiment, pretty much _despite_ her seeming lack of intellect she has managed to work her way to the top of the tree, so she must have some kind of... I dunno, political nous or something.
> 
> Even saying that, it does still seem hard to fathom when looking at any of the evidence.
> 
> ...



TBF I'm guessing you're not regularly on live broadcast interviews though.

Also there is a way to do it. Draw out a well, or let me answer this way... Rather than just dead air where you're left to imagine the smell of the burning gears.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Nobody voted for her plan or could have. I'm with Liz on this one, I'd be a tad confused by the question. Where's 2,000 coming from?
> 
> 80,000 Tories voted for her to be leader but I don't think many of them knew just how batshit she was gonna be within weeks of getting in.


What's wrong with asking her what her mandate is, following not just a change of party leader and PM, but also the trashing of the manifesto on which she stood and which she defended until a few months ago? She may not want to answer, but it's certainly a line of questioning worth pushing. if you are interested in democratic legitimacy and accountability; shame it wasn't pursued with a bit more vigour.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 2, 2022)

xenon said:


> TBF I'm guessing you're not regularly on live broadcast interviews though.


Well! You'd be..... right.

Yeah, ok, you're right on that one. Got lucky


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 2, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> What's wrong with asking her what her mandate is, following not just a change of party leader and PM, but also the trashing of the manifesto on which she stood and which she defended until a few months ago? She may not want to answer, but it's certainly a line of questioning worth pushing. if you are interested in democratic legitimacy and accountability; shame it wasn't pursued with a bit more vigour.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


Yeah, and I think the way it was phrased means that it could be answered in any number of ways (i.e. did your cabinet vote on it, your party, Parliament, Tory members, the electorate...), which gives her lots of different ways to answer but also whichever answer she did give would be telling in itself.

She presumably stumbled because she interpreted it _only_ as "who in the public voted for this?", and by trying to avoid falling into the trap she managed to fall into it anyway.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 2, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



But thank god there's no woke lefty comedian on the show trying to make Liz look absolutely ridiculous. Smashed it again babe!


----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yeah, and I think the way it was phrased means that it could be answered in any number of ways (i.e. did your cabinet vote on it, your party, Parliament, Tory members, the electorate...), which gives her lots of different ways to answer but also whichever answer she did give would be telling in itself.
> 
> She presumably stumbled because she interpreted it _only_ as "who in the public voted for this?", and by trying to avoid falling into the trap she managed to fall into it anyway.



Well, no, it was a stupid question but Sunak would have handled that slightly better. That clip does cut off rather abruptly but she did go on to say the Tories won a massive mandate in the last election so suggesting that's who voted for it. Which is the same line Boris used to use to explain how he should get away with his own incompetence.

Conference is gonna be fucking fantastic. Max schadenfreude.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 2, 2022)

ska invita said:


> far from it - front page right now
> 
> View attachment 345260
> View attachment 345261
> ...


Somewhat aptly, each one of those byline photos looks like the person has just opened a door to be greeted by the sight of someone being properly fucked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Max schadenfreude.


yeh he's covering the conference for the wiener abendblatt


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Not got to that bit yet. But interestingly she has thrown Kwarteng under the bus for the first time and said the upper tax rate thing was *his idea and his alone*.


So she's a liar and a disloyal friend, as well as everything else. Scum.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 2, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> While totally agreeing with the general sentiment, pretty much _despite_ her seeming lack of intellect she has managed to work her way to the top of the tree, so she must have some kind of... I dunno, political nous or something.
> 
> Even saying that, it does still seem hard to fathom when looking at any of the evidence.
> 
> ...


There may be something in that. I too have a tendency to answer a question immediately, which can lead to me imparting far more personal information than anyone needs. No stop valve. Occasionally, it's resulted in looks of total horror descending over professional situations. Taking a pause can work out for the best.

Perhaps Liz Truss is simply taking the time to remind herself not to tell the interviewer that she's been up all night with cystitis, before drawing parallels between herself to some character from a favourite film, and mentioning how she was inspired into a particular policy by helping with her child's geography homework.

If she's likely to do that kind of thing, coming across as somewhat mechanical and plodding might be preferable.


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 2, 2022)

xenon said:


> Why does she do the silence thing? Do you think it's some kinda power move or she is as I suspect, just not bright enough to have preempted what would be asked or react on the spot. Even Johnson would bloviate his way past any slightly awkward questions.


I don't think her "Man in the room next door" has quite got a grasp on parroting a response in her ear piece from the Central Office approved response playbook.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> There may be something in that. I too have a tendency to answer a question immediately, which can lead to me imparting far more personal information than anyone needs. No stop valve. Occasionally, it's resulted in looks of total horror descending over professional situations. Taking a pause can work out for the best.
> 
> Perhaps Liz Truss is simply taking the time to remind herself not to tell the interviewer that she's been up all night with cystitis, before drawing parallels between herself to some character from a favourite film, and mentioning how she was inspired into a particular policy by helping with her child's geography homework.
> 
> If she's likely to do that kind of thing, coming across as somewhat mechanical and plodding might be preferable.



I get your point. But she's effectively a salesperson. She's gotta be slick. She's not. She's a massive electoral liability which is brilliant in its own way.


----------



## gosub (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I get your point. But she's effectively a salesperson. She's gotta be slick. She's not. She's a massive electoral liability which is brilliant in its own way.


Na, slick wouldn't have done it (but he knows what he is talking about), savvy admitting a bit of learning going on.


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Christ. Just catching up on her performance on Kuennsberg this morning. Toe curling. She is actually very very thick isnt she.



Well yes, but she's perfectly complimented by KK who is extremely clever and won University Challenge. 

It'll be fine.


----------



## gosub (Oct 2, 2022)




----------



## gosub (Oct 2, 2022)

‘Liz Truss hasn’t understood a word I wrote’, says PM’s favourite author | The Spectator
					

As I reported this summer, Liz Truss’s favourite historian is Rick Perlstein, the great chronicler of the rise of the new right in its Nixonian and Reaganite forms between 1960 and 1980.She told journalists that she read ‘anything’ he wrote. Interviewers noticed Perlstein’s books on her shelves...




					www.spectator.co.uk


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 2, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I get your point. But she's effectively a salesperson. She's gotta be slick. She's not. She's a massive electoral liability which is brilliant in its own way.


Oh absolutely. She's a massive cunt, which can work, but not without charisma - and we've never had a leader with less. She's fucked. Unfortunately, so are we.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 2, 2022)

The charisma of Gordon Brown combined with the brilliance of Boris Johnson


----------



## wow (Oct 3, 2022)

SpackleFrog said:


> I'm not sure she will. She clearly has no idea what she's doing and has nothing going for her. The local radio interviews this week showed she's got no idea how to manage the criticism.
> 
> I think the Tories will look at ways to reverse these new polling trends but that may involve getting rid of her.





Supine said:


> It’s the next wave, when she gets involved in the ukraine situation, we really need to worry about.





flypanam said:


> I genuinely think she knows what she's doing, yes she's not very able but she has a handle on the ideas of Hayek.
> 
> She has politics, but those politics are of the extreme libertarians.
> 
> ...


Truss will ride this wave, but Kwarteng won’t. He’ll be long gone before the OBR announce their conclusions in November.

Truss tossed him out as bait on Kuenssberg this morning. Most armchair pundits and actual economists already blame him for this week’s economic disaster, so she’ll sack him to demonstrate her strong leadership.

She’ll also reverse abolishing the 45% tax rate, because that will score the most political points whilst affecting the fewest voters, but in reality changes nothing except the optics.

It’ll buy her enough time until the next disaster.

But I predict disaster for the Tories for the next decade anyway. They’re completely toxic.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 3, 2022)

gosub said:


> ‘Liz Truss hasn’t understood a word I wrote’, says PM’s favourite author | The Spectator
> 
> 
> As I reported this summer, Liz Truss’s favourite historian is Rick Perlstein, the great chronicler of the rise of the new right in its Nixonian and Reaganite forms between 1960 and 1980.She told journalists that she read ‘anything’ he wrote. Interviewers noticed Perlstein’s books on her shelves...
> ...


Some interesting stuff in that article.

This - _In the 1970s, Irving Kristol, the editor of Public Interest, was explicit that politics must trump economics. The political advantage tax cuts would provide to the Republicans was so historically imperative they should be blasted through whatever the effect on the budget. ‘The neo-Conservative is willing to leave those problems to be coped with by liberal interregnums,’ he wrote in the Wall Street Journal. ‘He wants to shape the future and will leave it to his opponents to tidy up afterwards.’ - _seems horribly familiar in the UK too.

This, Perlstein describing the source Liz Truss relies on for her economic philosophy - _[It was] devised by a dude whose only economic training, in his own description, came from learning to count cards at the blackjack tables in Las Vegas. I wish I were making this up, but I'm not. - _is genuinely terrifying.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 3, 2022)

kabbes said:


> The charisma of Gordon Brown combined with the brilliance of Boris Johnson


If only.


----------



## wow (Oct 3, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Some interesting stuff in that article.
> 
> This - _In the 1970s, Irving Kristol, the editor of Public Interest, was explicit that politics must trump economics. The political advantage tax cuts would provide to the Republicans was so historically imperative they should be blasted through whatever the effect on the budget. ‘The neo-Conservative is willing to leave those problems to be coped with by liberal interregnums,’ he wrote in the Wall Street Journal. ‘He wants to shape the future and will leave it to his opponents to tidy up afterwards.’ - _seems horribly familiar in the UK too.
> 
> This, Perlstein describing the source Liz Truss relies on for her economic philosophy - _[It was] devised by a dude whose only economic training, in his own description, came from learning to count cards at the blackjack tables in Las Vegas. I wish I were making this up, but I'm not. - _is genuinely terrifying.


Very interesting article. Thanks


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 3, 2022)

kabbes said:


> The charisma of Gordon Brown combined with the brilliance of Boris Johnson



Brown was a pretty powerful orator:



Compare that to this useless lump with an autocue:


----------



## emanymton (Oct 3, 2022)

Truss expected to abandon plan to abolish 45% top rate of income tax – live
					

Kwasi Kwarteng expected to announce a huge U-turn following strong criticism of his mini-budget




					www.theguardian.com
				




Sure this will help their election chances.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 3, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Truss expected to abandon plan to abolish 45% top rate of income tax – live
> 
> 
> Kwasi Kwarteng expected to announce a huge U-turn following strong criticism of his mini-budget
> ...



Yep bbc reporting that too..









						Chancellor expected to U-turn on 45p tax rate
					

Kwasi Kwarteng set to reverse plan to scrap the 45p rate of income tax, 10 days after it was announced.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 3, 2022)

Sky is having fun reporting the reversal of plans to cut the top rate whilst playing a clip of Truss yesterday saying she was sticking with the measures announced.

They are expecting an official announcement around 7.30am.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 3, 2022)

wow said:


> She’ll also reverse abolishing the 45% tax rate, because that will score the most political points whilst affecting the fewest voters,


Are you in the cabinet?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 3, 2022)

She left it to Kwarteng to confirm the news in a tweet.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 3, 2022)

As in the other thread, here is the tweet.

The replies are pretty scathing.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 3, 2022)

Will "the markets" and the various financial institutions be at all settled by this though? As I understand it, the 45p rate change was responsible for only a small fraction (£1 or 2 billion out of the £45 billion) of the drop in tax income. The bulk of it is in the 20p rate drop.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Will "the markets" and the various financial institutions be at all settled by this though? As I understand it, the 45p rate change was responsible for only a small fraction (£1 or 2 billion out of the £45 billion) of the drop in tax income. The bulk of it is in the 20p rate drop.


Quite. I don’t think it will help much, it’ll just add to the general sense that they don’t know what they’re doing


----------



## brogdale (Oct 3, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Quite. I don’t think it will help much, it’ll just add to the general sense that they don’t know what they’re doing


IIRC none of the market volatility last week was remotely connected with the fiscal event; it was all down to global market volatility.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 3, 2022)

she not for turn but when she is , she'll force someone else to do it on twitter ...


----------



## Supine (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Will "the markets" and the various financial institutions be at all settled by this though? As I understand it, the 45p rate change was responsible for only a small fraction (£1 or 2 billion out of the £45 billion) of the drop in tax income. The bulk of it is in the 20p rate drop.



The lack of a payback plan was the bigger issue. Not publishing the governments own analysis still makes them look incompetent. This isn’t over due to one u turn


----------



## Petcha (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Will "the markets" and the various financial institutions be at all settled by this though? As I understand it, the 45p rate change was responsible for only a small fraction (£1 or 2 billion out of the £45 billion) of the drop in tax income. The bulk of it is in the 20p rate drop.



I think a lot of the damage has already been done. This was actually a relatively small part of the whole shitshow they announced but showing that level of incompetence in a) announcing it and b) reversing it is what will have spooked global investors



> Despite this morning’s U-turn, the damage in the bond market is still clearly visible, says *Ben Laidler*, global markets strategist at social investment network *eToro*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Edit: The markets obvs dont actually give a fuck about the morals or otherwise of Truss/Kwarteng's plan. They're pragmatic. I think only a change of leadership will reduce the damage. Surely even Tories can see that.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Will "the markets" and the various financial institutions be at all settled by this though? As I understand it, the 45p rate change was responsible for only a small fraction (£1 or 2 billion out of the £45 billion) of the drop in tax income. The bulk of it is in the 20p rate drop.



It's not aimed at the markets. It's aimed at Tory MP's who - led by Gove and Shapps - have made plain that they would not be voting for the tax cut. As you say whilst this was one of the cheaper measures, even most Tory MP's realise that borrowing to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest is politically toxic during a cost of living crisis.


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## Karl Masks (Oct 3, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I think a lot of the damage has already been done. This was actually a relatively small part of the whole shitshow they announced but showing that level of incompetence in a) announcing it and b) reversing it is what will have spooked global investors
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: The markets obvs dont actually give a fuck about the morals or otherwise of Truss/Kwarteng's plan. They're pragmatic. I think only a change of leadership will reduce the damage. Surely even Tories can see that.


people will just call for a GE if they go through another campaign.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 3, 2022)

When state broadcaster bods speak like this, she's in bother..


----------



## emanymton (Oct 3, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Quite. I don’t think it will help much, it’ll just add to the general sense that they don’t know what they’re doing


This is a purley politically motivated change. Even they have released cutting tax for the richest is not a great look at the moment. This is about trying to get polling figures moving back in their favour. It won't work but that is what they are trying to do.


----------



## MrSki (Oct 3, 2022)

Doesn't seem like the Financial Times is much of a fan.











						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com


----------



## story (Oct 3, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I think a lot of the damage has already been done. This was actually a relatively small part of the whole shitshow they announced but showing that level of incompetence in a) announcing it and b) reversing it is what will have spooked global investors
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: The markets obvs dont actually give a fuck about the morals or otherwise of Truss/Kwarteng's plan. They're pragmatic. I think only a change of leadership will reduce the damage. Surely even Tories can see that.



It‘s so obvious that I almost think they’ve deliberately scuppered her so that they can be rid of her.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 3, 2022)

/


----------



## andysays (Oct 3, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s a picture of a Moomin. Grow up


You're the one who appears to be seriously arguing with someone on the internet that a picture of a Moomin isn't a picture of another poster.

Maybe it's you who should "grow up"...


----------



## teuchter (Oct 3, 2022)

As an aside, it's interesting to note that if dropping the over £150k band from 45% to 40% only costs £1 or 2biliion, this means that increasing it by 11 x 5% (to create a 100% income tax) would only gain you £11-22billion which doesn't even get you halfway to compensating for the >£40billion cost of reducing the 20% rate to 19%.

Unless I have got my arithematic wrong.

Presumably the 100k-150k band is actually the one where you could make a more meaningful difference?


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 3, 2022)

Where is the threshold for "comfortably off" these days for Tory voters ?
But it still puts sod all in the pockets of normal people - 52p a day if I was still gainfully employed.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> As an aside, it's interesting to note that if dropping the over £150k band from 45% to 40% only costs £1 or 2biliion, this means that increasing it by 11 x 5% (to create a 100% income tax) would only gain you £11-22billion which doesn't even get you halfway to compensating for the >£40billion cost of reducing the 20% rate to 19%.
> 
> Unless I have got my arithematic wrong.
> 
> Presumably the 100k-150k band is actually the one where you could make a more meaningful difference?


In 2013, the estimated total income across those earning more than £150k was £90bn (here: Laffer curve - Wikipedia).  Presumably, it’s more now at the very least by an inflationary level.  So I think the bit you’re missing is the balance between what people would pay if they didn’t change their behaviour versus the bit if they do change their behaviour.  I don’t know how any of the estimates have actually been calculated, though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 3, 2022)

andysays said:


> You're the one who appears to be seriously arguing with someone on the internet that a picture of a Moomin isn't a picture of another poster.
> 
> Maybe it's you who should "grow up"...


Wtf are you on about? What’s any of this got to do with Moomins?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 3, 2022)

And presumably those figures ignore the tax being evaded and avoided by dubious means.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 3, 2022)

kabbes said:


> In 2013, the estimated total income across those earning more than £150k was £90bn (here: Laffer curve - Wikipedia).  Presumably, it’s more now at the very least by an inflationary level.  So I think the bit you’re missing is the balance between what people would pay if they didn’t change their behaviour versus the bit if they do change their behaviour.  I don’t know how any of the estimates have actually been calculated, though.


Changing behaviour mainly meaning putting more effort into tax avoidance? Or also the result of salaries generally dropping because there's no point in paying people over a certain amount.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Changing behaviour mainly meaning putting more effort into tax avoidance? Or also the result of salaries generally dropping because there's no point in paying people over a certain amount.


Either and both. The point is that you can’t really say what the impact of changing the tax rate will be on the tax take for more than pretty small intervals.  Extrapolating from a 5% impact to the effect of 100% doesn’t work.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 3, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Either and both. The point is that you can’t really say what the impact of changing the tax rate will be on the tax take for more than pretty small intervals.  Extrapolating from a 5% impact to the effect of 100% doesn’t work.


I guess I'm sort of aware of that in principle, but it seems like extrapolating it ought to overestimate rather than underestimate the benefit.

So reasonably safe to say that increasing the >£150k band percentage (even by a very large amount) is never going to compensate for the effects of lowering the 20% rate even a little.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 3, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Wtf are you on about? What’s any of this got to do with Moomins?



but teachter really is a moomin with a top hat


----------



## Knotted (Oct 3, 2022)

Aside on the entirely apolitical question of charisma:

It's a very subjective thing. Not being a slick and smooth talker myself means I'm not at all put off by Truss's lack of slickness in interviews and I find the sniggering about it says more about the sniggerers than it does about Truss. Obviously her politics are terrible and the fanaticism that drives her premiership has backfired badly in a way that's both hilarious and terrifying. But on a personal level I find her perfectly charming.

In terms of prime ministers I have a living memory of I would rank them as follows in terms of charisma:

1) Gordon Brown
2) Liz Truss
3) John Major
4) Boris Johnson
5) Teresa May
6) David Cameron
7) Margaret Thatcher
8) Tony Blair

Margaret Thatcher is an interesting case in that she was actively going for dislikable but there's something about Tony Blair that makes me immediately think "my god don't trust this psychopath, get him away from me asap" and that makes him the least charismatic (and the worst communicator for that matter - try using some verbs you pretentious weirdo!!) even beating Thatcher. I felt that way before he was Labour leader btw so nothing to do with his record in government. Gordon Brown was, of course, absolutely charming, so bad at being fake he failed at faking being fake (still terrible politics and record in government of course).

All in all I actually don't think how likable someone is makes much difference in terms of how willing people are to vote for them as PM. People generally aren't this shallow, and want someone who "gets things done" (whatever those things may be) rather than charms them.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 3, 2022)

Knotted said:


> 1) Gordon Brown
> 2) Liz Truss
> 3) John Major
> 4) Boris Johnson
> ...


so is gordon top charisma or tony top?


----------



## BusLanes (Oct 3, 2022)

I went to a non party event in London in 2017 where it turned out Blair was the main speaker and it was really quite amazing to watch him in action. He had the audience and media (there were a lot present) eating out of his hands. He made it look effortless.

I'd never seen him in action before so no idea of he was better or worse during his heyday.


----------



## Sue (Oct 3, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> so is gordon top charisma or tony top?


I'm guessing Blair. Otherwise he reckons Truss is the second most charismatic PM in recent memory and that's clearly madness so...


----------



## JimW (Oct 3, 2022)

We should rank them by their _de _like the legendary kings: Zhou Period Philosophy and Thought (www.chinaknowledge.de)


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 3, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> but teachter really is a moomin with a top hat


his hat's not that good


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 3, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> so is gordon top charisma or tony top?





Sue said:


> I'm guessing Blair. Otherwise he reckons Truss is the second most charismatic PM in recent memory and that's clearly madness so...





Knotted said:


> there's something about Tony Blair that makes me immediately think "my god don't trust this psychopath, get him away from me asap" and that makes him the least charismatic


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 3, 2022)

I mean BJ had loads of charisma but also everything he said was ballshit


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 3, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> I mean BJ had loads of charisma but also everything he said was ballshit


world-beating ballshit.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 3, 2022)

I'd (reluctantly) put Bojo ahead of both May and Cameron for charisma tbh. His premiership was pretty heavily dependent on the Booster McBumble presentation style whereas May fell over in part because the most interesting thing about her was her choice in shoes. And Cameron was just a ham in a suit.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 3, 2022)

build better ballshit


----------



## Knotted (Oct 3, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> so is gordon top charisma or tony top?



Gordon. I guess for most people it's the reverse. People are weird.


----------



## Sue (Oct 3, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Gordon. I guess for most people it's the reverse. *People are weird.*





Sue said:


> I'm guessing Blair. *Otherwise he reckons Truss is the second most charismatic PM in recent memory and that's clearly madness so...*


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 3, 2022)

Brown couldn't gladhand to save his life, or indeed his career. And holy fuck I just remembered his Forced Smile phase.


Fwiw: 
1) Blair
2) Thatcher
3) Bojo
4) Major
5) Cameron
6) Brown
7) May

Truss it's a bit early to tell maybe, at least as a full-on party leader. She's currently a dreadful interviewee and sketchy as a speaker but will be getting plenty of practice for the next wee while. Blair by far the most plausible speaker, Thatcher had that dread figure of authority thing going on.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 3, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Aside on the entirely apolitical question of charisma:
> 
> It's a very subjective thing. Not being a slick and smooth talker myself means I'm not at all put off by Truss's lack of slickness in interviews and I find the sniggering about it says more about the sniggerers than it does about Truss. Obviously her politics are terrible and the fanaticism that drives her premiership has backfired badly in a way that's both hilarious and terrifying. But on a personal level I find her perfectly charming.
> 
> ...



I actually think something about Truss reminds me a bit of late-period, post-Iraq, god-complex Blair. At the point where 'well I believe this to be true' seemed to be all he thought was required.


----------



## gosub (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I guess I'm sort of aware of that in principle, but it seems like extrapolating it ought to overestimate rather than underestimate the benefit.
> 
> So reasonably safe to say that increasing the >£150k band percentage (even by a very large amount) is never going to compensate for the effects of lowering the 20% rate even a little.


Which means be more sensible to keep 45% at 45


Rob Ray said:


> Brown couldn't gladhand to save his life, or indeed his career. And holy fuck I just remembered his Forced Smile phase.
> View attachment 345686


Brass Monkey in Edinburgh old town has a photo of him with Donald Dewer from back in the day, actually had a reasonable smile b4 the media training


----------



## Raheem (Oct 3, 2022)

Brown is actually quite charismatic if you can find old footage of him in the 70s.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 3, 2022)

Sue said:


>



I never get the feeling she's trying to pull the wool over my eyes even when she is trying very hard to pull the wool over my eyes. I like that. I like that she's clearly enjoying herself in photo ops. There's no accounting for taste I suppose. Also she's probably a bit of a laugh if you got to know her. I'd have a drink with her or Brown or Major. I'd avoid the others irl. Even politics aside, I'd kill Blair in the face with a crucifix out of a sense of public duty, the unseelie monster.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 3, 2022)

JimW said:


> We should rank them by their _de _like the legendary kings: Zhou Period Philosophy and Thought (www.chinaknowledge.de)



That's an entirely different question. Thatcher wins of course, Truss is definitely last.


----------



## contadino (Oct 3, 2022)

I've met Gordon Brown several times and while he was quite intense, he was a polite and engaging person. His reputation was very much undeserved.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 3, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> but teachter really is a moomin with a top hat


If this is one of those tiresome unfunny in jokes, this is not the thread for it


----------



## emanymton (Oct 3, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> If this is one of those tiresome unfunny in jokes, this is not the thread for it


Quite right, we have a dedicated thread for that.



			https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/new-jokes-please.226799/


----------



## Serene (Oct 3, 2022)

I think she gets up every morning at 4 am and rushes downstairs onto media to see if growth has happened.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 4, 2022)

This article was highlighted during the Sky Press Review, it's by the Sun's political editor, so I copied the link from google and put it in the archive site, so we can all read it without going to the Sun's site.

I hate to say it, because of the source, but it makes interesting reading.



> CABINET ministers were huddled around phones in a plush hotel suite in the early hours of Monday morning glued to The Sun’s website.
> Our bombshell revelation that Liz Truss had jettisoned her controversial dream of axing the 45p rate of tax detonated the Conservative Party Conference in Birmingham.
> 
> But our story, revealed at 12.20am, came as a shock to some of the most senior members of the government.
> ...





> Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of the powerful 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers, had been to see a worried Ms Truss at 7pm to warn her she did not have the numbers to ram her tax cut plans through Parliament — despite a majority of 71.
> And her screeching about-turn would come as a shock to the Chancellor, who had been about to tuck into a beef curry at an upmarket restaurant across town.
> He left his dinner before his main course turned up, rushing back for crisis talks with Truss, who told him: “It’s time to rip off the plaster.”
> 
> ...



Safe link - TAXING TIMES Inside Tory conference chaos after ministers were NOT told about Liz Truss’ tax U-turn and found out on Sun’s website.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 4, 2022)

Its rare to get a Prime minister without at least a mild personality disorder, but this time I think we've got a Bona Fide nutter and I think most of the tory party can actually see that.
Not that they care and it will not push them to get rid of her until the polls instruct them to


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 4, 2022)

She's running the country like a schoolkid. I don't mean that she is mentally under developed or something, but simply that she has no understanding and is utterly and completely out of her depth


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

We truly are through the looking glass when these two seem to be sensible, decent human beings



> *Michael Gove*, the former education secretary, has said free school meals could be extended to all families on universal credit for just £500m.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## moochedit (Oct 4, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> Its rare to get a Prime minister without at least a mild personality disorder, but this time I think we've got a Bona Fide nutter and I think most of the tory party can actually see that.
> Not that they care and it will not push them to get rid of her until the polls instruct them to


Labour are over 50% though. How much more instruction do they need?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 4, 2022)

It's hard to judge, but I think this is probably the worst interview so far, Beth Rigby goes in with simple, but hard hitting questions, and just gets the same robotic scripted replies over and over again, due to a software issue with L2T2, proper artificial intelligence failure. 



"I think voters are tried of the lack of honest answers."


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

just woe... (I meant wow but woe works just as well)


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's hard to judge, but I think this is probably the worst interview so far, Beth Rigby goes in with simple, but hard hitting questions, and just gets the same robotic scripted replies over and over again, due to a software issue with L2T2, proper artificial intelligence failure.
> 
> 
> 
> "I think voters are tried of the lack of honest answers."




Erm. Can we talk about her switch from expensive heels to grubby trainers..? Is this an attempt to make her seem a bit closer to the people she's fucking over..?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 4, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> I mean BJ had loads of charisma but also everything he said was ballshit


Exactly. Charisma is a completely different to likability - you can have both, but as qualities they can equally be divorced from one another.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

She is abhorrent. Thats all.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> just woe... (I meant wow but woe works just as well)



It so fits in with this tweet -

"We're f***ed". Absolutely extraordinary conversation between Tory MP and SkyNews correspondent Mhari Aurora:


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

Fuck I miss Boris


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It so fits in with this tweet -
> 
> "We're f***ed". Absolutely extraordinary conversation between Tory MP and SkyNews correspondent Mhari Aurora:
> 
> View attachment 345780


I posted that somewhere else in here , it's somewhat amazeballs. Great minds and all that


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 4, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Brown couldn't gladhand to save his life, or indeed his career. And holy fuck I just remembered his Forced Smile phase.
> View attachment 345686
> 
> Fwiw:
> ...


Brown was badly advised. On his own terms, he's a serious guy, and that's fine. You are a person who is quite serious so just be serious, and smile when you want to.

His great mistake was apologizing to the old bigot Duffy. That added to the lack of authenticity that the forced smiling had already created. He was right the first time.

It seems psycho Truss (whose 'perfect charm' as referenced on the page behind I would strongly dispute) is now floating actual benefit cuts. She is a fucking monster.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 4, 2022)

Proper blue-on-blue bombing here; members of the executive blaming the lobby fodder and accusing them of a coup.
Strong stuff.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Fuck I miss Boris


NO! that's what 'they' want you to think, I think that is the plan ( unless she is a sleeper agent )


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> I posted that somewhere else in here , it's somewhat amazeballs. Great minds and all that



TBF, I nicked it from your post  , because it so fitted with that interview above.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBF, I nicked it from your post  , because it so fitted with that interview above.


it's cool, spreading the news to all is all one could ask for.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> NO! thanks what 'they' want you to think, I think that is the plan ( unless she is a sleeper agent )



At least he was smart/lazy enough to leave most of the big decisions to people who actually had some idea of what they were doing. Leaving locking down the country a couple of months earlier aside of course. Truss seems to think she can actually be a PM. Boris knew he was clueless and just got pissed and shagged his brains out instead. That's actually preferable.

I give up. This country is so screwed. What's the deal - how do we get a general election earlier than the two years?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> At least he was smart/lazy enough to leave most of the big decisions to people who actually had some idea of what they were doing. Leaving locking down the country a couple of months earlier aside of course. Truss seems to think she can actually be a PM. Boris knew he was clueless and just got pissed and shagged his brains out instead. That's actually preferable.
> 
> I give up. This country is so screwed. What's the deal - how do we get a general election earlier than the two years?


perhaps it's like football, where if a certain number of players are sent off the match is abandoned. so if we can defenestrate something like 170 mps maybe they'll need to hold a general election


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Fuck I miss Boris




I’ve hit the point where I’m just embracing the anarchy and enjoying the ride. 

I may lose the flat I put a deposit down on but at this rate no one’s going to have a house


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

I find it quite astonishing that she's got a mortgage tbh. Her body language went off the charts there.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> I’ve hit the point where I’m just embracing the anarchy and enjoying the ride.
> 
> I may lose the flat I put a deposit down on but at this rate no one’s going to have a house


my mum said I've been an anarchist since I was  5, I've just been waiting for the country to catch up.
Truly gutted about your deposit though,  thats shit


ffs it's taken 7 times to post this


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> truly gutted about your deposit though,  thats shit
> my mum said I was an anarchist since I was about 5, I've just been waiting for the country to catch up with me...




We’ll see, it’s in progress and in chain so just waiting atm but I’m not going to be able to keep the mortgage if rates go up further or it gets rejected.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 4, 2022)

They have too large a majority and turkeys don't vote for christmas. Face it we are stuck with them til 2024/25


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> NO! that's what 'they' want you to think, I think that is the plan ( unless she is a sleeper agent )


If I was more attracted to conspiracy theories, I might think Truss was actually a Soviet sleeper agent, left behind after 1991 to be reactivated by her handlers to wreck the UK from within. She has been activated.

She's been a Lib Dem, she's a Tory, she was totally remain, she's a balls out Brexiter, she was a republican, she's a monarchist, she cares about people's bills, she wants to take their last penny in benefits.

She's everything and nothing. The expression 'the lights are on but nobody's home' doesn't really apply because in her case the lights aren't on either. Maybe just the fridge light as she checks on the cheese.

I now have a horrible feeling if Liz Truss goes that our next PM could be Suella Braverman. They will reach into the depths, and pull out something like her. It would fit with each being worse than the last.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 4, 2022)

moochedit said:


> They have too large a majority and turkeys don't vote for christmas. Face it we are stuck with them til 2024/25



The U-turn on the 45% tax rate was because she was advised she didn't have the majority to carry it in the commons.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> If I was more attracted to conspiracy theories, I might think Truss was actually a Soviet sleeper agent, left behind after 1991 to be reactivated by her handlers to wreck the UK from within. She has been activated.
> 
> She's been a Lib Dem, she's a Tory, she was totally remain, she's a balls out Brexiter, she was a republican, she's a monarchist, she cares about people's bills, she wants to take their last penny in benefits.
> 
> ...


I was joking about Farron's tweet earlier but I get ya


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 4, 2022)

I'm really starting to thinks this is the end of the Tories (for this season). I just cannot see how this particular government can last. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with another December election. They won't want it of course, but Truss is just a walking disaster. Human hand grenade indeed. She is easily the worst PM ever, and she picked her top team. So Kwasi is, logically then, the best of the bunch.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

as Joe Lycette said, 'They really are scraping the barrel' or something like that.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Erm. Can we talk about her switch from expensive heels to grubby trainers..? Is this an attempt to make her seem a bit closer to the people she's fucking over..?


That's in case she needs to leg it and look for a fridge to hide in.

That wasn't actually an interview in the true sense of the world, Rigby was asking genuine questions (and there were some good ones in there) but Loopy Lizzie was just repeating her talking points like a  recording stuck on a loop. 
How often did the phrase "Not In Our Core Package" come out? I'm surprised Rigby didn't smack her round the head cursing "Damn robot is stuck"
I've seen misbehaving primary schoolers put up a better defence of their actions than that.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)




----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>




Sunak was absolutely right about everything that would happen under a Truss government. What a massive own goal from the Tories not to put him in charge.

A highly intelligent, charismatic guy who understands the world of finance... ? Nah... Let's have Truss. I did notice Starmer was remaining very quiet through that campaign. Sunak would have been a problem next GE. This idiot not.


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> charismatic


lol


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

killer b said:


> lol



Er, he is. He can string a sentence together too. A different one each time.


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2022)

Do you know what charisma is?


----------



## Petcha (Oct 4, 2022)

Yup, do you. That's my job. For better or for worse. Sunak had stardust and everyone in the industry knew it and were baffled if not surprised by the Tory electorate not voting him in.

His personal ratings were way higher than Starmer's.



> Definition of _charisma_​
> 1*: *a personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure (such as a political leader)


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2022)

So incredibly charismatic he lost the leadership election to a total vacuum


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2022)

I guess where you work they're impressed by weird posh rich dudes. 

Sunak's ratings were 100% down to his financial interventions during covid not some magic stardust - and they dropped like a stone as soon as people actually got his measure.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 4, 2022)

Just watched the PMs interview on sky News and I cannot believe was confused on the question on weather she had a mortgage which was quite funny


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 4, 2022)

Was Sunak in the X factor? I'm so fucking confused RN


----------



## moochedit (Oct 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Just watched the PMs interview on sky News and I cannot believe was confused on the question on weather she had a mortgage which was quite funny


She does know what a mortgage is doesn't she?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 4, 2022)

killer b said:


> I guess where you work they're impressed by weird posh rich dudes.
> 
> Sunak's ratings were 100% down to his financial interventions during covid not some magic stardust - and they dropped like a stone as soon as people actually got his measure.




And you know, the inherent racism


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 4, 2022)

Petcha said:


> His personal ratings were way higher than Starmer's.


Shit the bed!


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Just watched the PMs interview on sky News and I cannot believe was confused on the question on weather she had a mortgage which was quite funny




She’s worth at least 5 million quid, she doesn’t worry about a mortgage and it’s a stupid question to ask someone who clearly hasn’t struggled for money for decades.

Let alone one with no brain cells


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 4, 2022)

moochedit said:


> She does know what a mortgage is doesn't she?


She does but it was the confusion on her face about weather she had one or not


----------



## moochedit (Oct 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> She does but it was the confusion on her face about weather she had one or not


Meaning "i paid mine off years ago but i don't want to say that".


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



I'm no shoe snob, but those trainers are super conspicuous.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 4, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> She’s worth at least 5 million quid, she doesn’t worry about a mortgage and it’s a stupid question to ask someone who clearly hasn’t struggled for money for decades.
> 
> Let alone one with no brain cells


Wasn't that the point of the question, to highlight that she doesn't have to GAF about these things?


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 4, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I'm no shoe snob, but those trainers are super conspicuous.


The whole interview was desperately bad.I can't believe that she is going to be allowed to continue doing this live on air.Surely she cannot remain in post.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

I did think she would be gone by winterval, but it's now looking close to halloween, or even better on the 5th Nov.


----------



## T & P (Oct 4, 2022)

So what would/ will happen? Another leadership contest (more lulz, and the country is far better off with no cunt sitting in Downing Street anyway, so I'm all for it), or Sunak getting coronated by default?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> as Joe Lycette said, 'They really are scraping the barrel' or something like that.


Backwash   
_I think the haters will say that we’ve had 12 years of the Tories and that we’re sort of at the dregs of what they’ve got available and that Liz Truss is the backwash of the available MPs. I wouldn’t say that because I’m incredibly right wing, but some people might say that.

During his appearance on the show, Joe also took aim at other PM hopeful Rishi Sunak and commented how "he’s not going to be Prime Minister, so you may as well have interviewed Peter Andre".
_


----------



## teuchter (Oct 4, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> She does but it was the confusion on her face about weather she had one or not


There was no confusion about whether she had one or not. She made the face when she was asked if she was worried about what would happen if she has to remortgage.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 4, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I'm no shoe snob, but those trainers are super conspicuous.


They're crying out for velcro. Personally I would have gone addidas gazelles.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 4, 2022)

My guess is the polls will settle back to 10-15 point Labour leads and the tories will plod on with her in power. The idea of another contest is just too traumatic for them.  The moment to bin her off and get sunak in by 'acclamation', if it ever existed, has gone.  If the leads do slip back, they'll realise kieth is an even emptier suit and there's little active support for Labour.  They'll convince themselves there's no clear path to getting someone else in that doesn't worsen their position in doing so.  It's a mixture of stasis and headless chicken stuff. Good.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 4, 2022)

Johnson must be enjoying himself more than he has done for years.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Johnson must be enjoying himself more than he has done for years.


So must Uncle Jezza, except he is probably more furious at the state of it all.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 4, 2022)

T & P said:


> So what would/ will happen? Another leadership contest (more lulz, and the country is far better off with no cunt sitting in Downing Street anyway, so I'm all for it), or Sunak getting coronated by default?


my guess, they would only pull the trigger on forcing Truss out if they were sure that only their one anointed MP would get enough signatures to be on the list for next leader, and win by default. 

that'd look a bit better than changing the rules at short notice to stop a repeat of the association members ballot. then they can take their time to redraft the rules well in advance of the next change in leader.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Proper blue-on-blue bombing here; members of the executive blaming the lobby fodder and accusing them of a coup.
> Strong stuff.
> 
> View attachment 345781


And some more blue-on-blue with BroJohn two-footing 'finger' Jenkyns; they're going for it today in the tory civil war:


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 4, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Johnson must be enjoying himself more than he has done for years.


More likely still smarting that he wasn't the PM an audience of billions saw deliver a soaring eulogy to the heavens from the glittering pulpit of the abbey. Christ, he missed his oratory pinnacle by a week, and had to watch Liz fucking Truss in his place.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 4, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> had to watch Liz fucking Truss in his place.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 4, 2022)

And MadNad's kicking off again for team Johnson...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> More like still smarting that he wasn't the PM an audience of billions saw deliver a soaring eulogy to the heavens from the glittering pulpit of the abbey. Christ, he missed his oratory pinnacle by a week, and had to watch Liz fucking Truss in his place.


Yeah, it was lovely to see, Brenda had the last laugh, if by dying is laughable.


----------



## Fuzzy (Oct 4, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> The expression 'the lights are on but nobody's home' doesn't really apply because in her case the lights aren't on either. Maybe just the fridge light as she checks on the cheese.


Hehe that made me chuckle


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

I don't think I can keep up, come back from the pub and found this gem (apologies if it's been posted before.)


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> So must Uncle Jezza, except he is probably more furious at the state of it all.


Well he's an Arsenal fan, so he'll be loving life at the minute. 
The bastard.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2022)

killer b said:


> I guess where you work they're impressed by weird posh rich dudes.
> 
> Sunak's ratings were 100% down to his financial interventions during covid not some magic stardust - and they dropped like a stone as soon as people actually got his measure.



Plus the headbangers in the parliamentary tory party think they belong in the driving seat post-Brexit.

Plus the timing of the personal wealth stories about Sunak and his wife damaged his chances, they created a very awkward juxtaposition with the cost of living crisis.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 4, 2022)

I've found myself listening to shows on lbc that I'd usually avoid, however listening to the calls of tory voters in meltdown, is really rather entertaining.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> as Joe Lycette said, 'They really are scraping the barrel' or something like that.


They are through through barrel and grubbing around in the dirt hoping to find a half dead worm.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 4, 2022)

Going well...


----------



## maomao (Oct 4, 2022)

Wilf said:


> My guess is the polls will settle back to 10-15 point Labour leads and the tories will plod on with her in power. The idea of another contest is just too traumatic for them.  The moment to bin her off and get sunak in by 'acclamation', if it ever existed, has gone.  If the leads do slip back, they'll realise kieth is an even emptier suit and there's little active support for Labour.  They'll convince themselves there's no clear path to getting someone else in that doesn't worsen their position in doing so.  It's a mixture of stasis and headless chicken stuff. Good.


I don't think so. They've put mortgages up and knocked pensions down. The financial damage done won't just dissolve, that's their voters with less money.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 4, 2022)

Johnson didn't do many interviews, he sent out allies. As a new leader Truss is trying to front her govt and failing, that's all i can see. 
Unless the MPs coalesce around a candidate, unlikely? she's stuck there.


----------



## maomao (Oct 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Going well...
> 
> View attachment 345804


If she was Putin she'd be firing a couple of tactical nukes off.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2022)

T & P said:


> So what would/ will happen? Another leadership contest (more lulz, and the country is far better off with no cunt sitting in Downing Street anyway, so I'm all for it), or Sunak getting coronated by default?



The whole shitshow would start again and we’d risk the Tory members picking another numpty.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 4, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> I've found myself listening to shows on lbc that I'd usually avoid, however listening to the calls of tory voters in meltdown, is really rather entertaining.


The way this is going, one of those callers is going to be someone called Liz Truss


----------



## maomao (Oct 4, 2022)

alex_ said:


> The whole shitshow would start again and we’d risk the Tory members picking another numpty.


They'd change the rules (to an MPs only vote) on the basis that the country can't afford another three month campaign. And then never ever change them back.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 4, 2022)

alex_ said:


> The whole shitshow would start again and we’d risk the Tory members picking another numpty.


There's no risk. It's a certainty the next one would be another numpty


----------



## SysOut (Oct 4, 2022)

no confidence vote and then the king instructs someone to form a new government?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 4, 2022)

elbows said:


> Plus the headbangers in the parliamentary tory party think they belong in the driving seat post-Brexit.
> 
> Plus the timing of the personal wealth stories about Sunak and his wife damaged his chances, they created a very awkward juxtaposition with the cost of living crisis.


I found Truss's publicly funded lunchtime bar bill to be a far more damning juxtaposition. I'm surprised Sunak's team didn't make more of it. His wife's tax affairs were a bit cheeky, but her actual fortune is neither here nor there.


----------



## Sue (Oct 4, 2022)

maomao said:


> If she was Putin she'd be firing a couple of tactical nukes off.


Christ, don't give her ideas.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 4, 2022)

maomao said:


> If she was Putin she'd be firing a couple of tactical nukes off.


If she was Putin, she'd be sitting back enjoying the damage Liz Truss is doing and breathing a sigh of relief over how she's knocked his own humiliations down the headlines.


----------



## maomao (Oct 4, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> If she was Putin, she'd be sitting back enjoying the damage Liz Truss is doing and breathing a sigh of relief over how she's knocked his own humiliations down the headlines.


Globally that's far from true. In most of the world an idiot crashing the world's ninthe largest economy is an 'and finally' story.


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 4, 2022)

Sue said:


> Christ, don't give her ideas.


Erm...


----------



## andysays (Oct 4, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> Erm...



He's effectively saying that the only thing which can save the Truss Premiership is the outbreak of nuclear war


----------



## T & P (Oct 4, 2022)

andysays said:


> He's effectively saying that the only thing which can save the Truss Premiership is the outbreak of nuclear war


And let’s face it, what party could you possibly trust more the Tories to increase the value of your newly radioactive, roofless house over the next five years?


----------



## story (Oct 4, 2022)

andysays 
Plenty were saying this days ago, that the next move would be to sink the Belgrano.







I‘ve just watched a quick round up of her interviews today. How can she be so boring?! A dramatic and fast moving crisis that is affecting the majority of the population, and she‘s impossible to listen to. The dull repetitive drip feed of her answers is like a pall on my mind Every single one of the people (I’ve heard/seen) who have interviewed her on the radio and telly outshines her dim red-dwarf light with ease.


I wonder what those Conservative Party members who voted for her are now thinking about their decision.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 4, 2022)

story said:


> andysays
> Plenty were saying this days ago, that the next move would be to sink the Belgrano.
> 
> 
> ...


In recent days reports of tory party members self-harming have soared


----------



## story (Oct 4, 2022)

Andrew Marr talking with Nick Ferrari on LBC earlier today.

Marr says it looks like a death spiral, that Truss’ close associates were trying to make the UK more like an American type nation post-Brexit (Singapore on Thames) “They we’re always a small minority and now they’re in charge of the party”,  “they need to learn politics” and that even when it was failing John Major’s government were “more substantial“ than what we currently have, the conference chat is about getting rid of her, with “hollow laughter and fallows humour”.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 4, 2022)

This explains much


----------



## Fuzzy (Oct 4, 2022)

alex_ said:


> The whole shitshow would start again and we’d risk the Tory members picking another numpty.


or they would try and shoe horn boris back in.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 4, 2022)

maomao said:


> Globally that's far from true. In most of the world an idiot crashing the world's ninthe largest economy is an 'and finally' story.


I know. It wasn't a literal remark. It was a quip to another post.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 4, 2022)

maomao said:


> Globally that's far from true. In most of the world an idiot crashing the world's ninthe largest economy is an 'and finally' story.


That it was so crashable says much about the type of an economy it is.
Much is said about the sizes of economies. not about their qualities.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2022)

Fuzzy said:


> or they would try and shoe horn boris back in.



Pretty sure that’s what I said !


----------



## Supine (Oct 4, 2022)




----------



## story (Oct 4, 2022)

Supine said:


> View attachment 345834





What’s the name of this process?

It’s a really punchy metric.


----------



## xenon (Oct 4, 2022)

story said:


> andysays
> Plenty were saying this days ago, that the next move would be to sink the Belgrano.
> 
> 
> ...



They're striding around in their new flashy badly fitting ridiculous yellow trousers that everyone said would look ridiculous, wincing, a forced smile and loudly proclaiming they look great.


----------



## story (Oct 4, 2022)

xenon said:


> They're striding around in their new flashy badly fitting ridiculous yellow trousers that everyone said would look ridiculous, wincing, a forced smile and loudly proclaiming they look great.



Oooh, okay, they’re the ones answering Owen Jones with the “brilliant, ten out of ten” bullshit. I was half watching (through my fingers from behind the sofa) and assumed they were minor delegates from local councils or some such rather than “ordinary voters” who pay to be member of this weird cult.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 4, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> In recent days reports of tory party members self-harming have soared


Fucking hope so.


----------



## Ming (Oct 5, 2022)

I know she’s not everyone’s cup of tea but she’s still making good points (previous fuck ups accepted).


----------



## Sue (Oct 5, 2022)

Ming said:


> I know she’s not everyone’s cup of tea but she’s still making good points (previous fuck ups accepted).



No idea who that is. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## Ming (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> No idea who that is. 🤷‍♀️


Internet political commentator with some dodgy posting history. I do think she's an effective communicator though
Good at skewering Tory hypocrisy in bite size 2 minute pieces.


----------



## Supine (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> What’s the name of this process?
> 
> It’s a really punchy metric.



It’s called a word cloud 👍


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 5, 2022)

She was mocking working class call centre workers yesterday before being shamed into deleting her Tweet.

Call centre work is work, making cringe Tik Tok videos for horny centrist dads is not work as far as I am concerned.


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> She was mocking working class call centre workers yesterday before being shamed into deleting her Tweet.
> 
> Call centre work is work, making cringe Tik Tok videos for horny centrist dads is not work as far as I am concerned.
> 
> View attachment 345863



So far as I can see she wasn’t mocking all call centre workers but a certain kind of cartoon person. And I have to say, having worked in a call centre myself I fully recognise the charicature she outlined in the tweet from my time there.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 5, 2022)




----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> andysays
> Plenty were saying this days ago, that the next move would be to sink the Belgrano.
> 
> 
> ...


I do sometime wonder if I’ve made a mistake by avoiding all news on tv or radio. I stopped cos I couldn’t bear the sounds and sights of politicians braying and geegawing. I heard a couple of clips of her doing those and now I feel I made the right decision and that my misophonia towards political gasbagging is entirely warranted. We’ve been spoilt with excruciating voices in recent years - Johnson,  Trump, Milliband, Rees-Mogg. What is it with people with grating voices rising to the top?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 5, 2022)




----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 5, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> View attachment 345864


Truss:  "it's the latest government white paper."


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> In recent days reports of tory party members self-harming have soared



I’ve been thinking about this a bit this morning  in a vague kind of way. No doubt a substantial representation of those who voted for Truss will be in the audience for her speech today.

This inept PM was put in place by 81,326 party member votes. Fewer than voted for BJ.
I’m still finding that quite shocking.









						Liz Truss secured a lower percentage of party member votes than expected - could that change how she governs?
					

As Liz Truss is declared winner of the Conservative leadership contest, Sky's political team give their snap assessment of her acceptance speech and what lies ahead as she prepares to enter Number 10 tomorrow.




					news.sky.com
				





And I suppose that the kind of person who pays money to be a member of the Conservative Party is that kind of self serving self regarding self important selfish prick who only and ever prioritises their own mean little agenda. The kind of prick you avoid in the pub, hope not to end up sitting next to at the family do, hope you never end up working with or accidentally dating.

I doubt they’re self flagellating. I reckon there’s going to be a degree of sunk fallacy thinking going on for any of those who have any doubts but on the whole, I’m willing to bet that those who voted her in are those who would expect to be better off with her policies in place, or at least no worse off, and fuck everyone else.

Even those who might be catching a glimmer of how fucked this is will be pumped up with ego and air because they’ve made a difference, they’re part of history, they’ve played their part in the unfolding story. Ego and pomposity isn’t always a good feeling, sometimes it’s just narcissistically necessary that people will ignore how shit it is and just enjoy the sense of being important, significant.


And these types, when they see people struggling and falling, they don’t think “this is the result of dreadful policies at government level” instead they’re exactly the ones who think “well they should try harder do more“.


If I were a TV producer at Conference today I’d be directing the camera crew to pan over the audience as much as possible. Find the ones who are applauding and nodding along. Put them on the list.

They’re responsible for this fuck up as much as Truss and Kwarteng are. Probably more cos they had a fucking choice and Truss and Kwarteng are just acting out their nature,


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

Neckline of her dress cut in the shape of Baphomet himself. Definitely killed the queen.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> View attachment 345883
> 
> Neckline of her dress cut in the shape of Baphomet himself. Definitely killed the queen.


they're really trying to bring back the thatcher 80s aren't they, down to the font and shoulder pads (or whatever those things are) 
bizarre - was such a miserable era


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

Hahaha

Greenpeace fuck you i have 2 banners.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

Fucking sealions clapping like cunts.


----------



## elbows (Oct 5, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Greenpeace fuck you i have 2 banners.



Yeah I laughed that they had a spare.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 5, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Greenpeace fuck you i have 2 banners.


can you explain please?


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

ska invita said:


> can you explain please?



2 Greenpeace activists popped up with a banner which was torn from their hands by some tory cunt.

They rapidly produced another one. Exactly the same.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 5, 2022)

spitfire said:


> 2 Greenpeace activists popped up with a banner which was torn from their hands by some tory cunt.
> 
> They rapidly produced another one. Exactly the same.


That's theft


----------



## pesh (Oct 5, 2022)

the second banner properly made me LOL


----------



## Chairman Meow (Oct 5, 2022)

I did a little cheer when I saw the second banner.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 5, 2022)

looked it up


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> View attachment 345883
> 
> Neckline of her dress cut in the shape of Baphomet himself. Definitely killed the queen.





Baphomet isn’t a Baddie. Gets a lot of bad press but actually represents balance, equilibrium, opposites in harmony and by inference, social order…


----------



## belboid (Oct 5, 2022)

I am shocked.  It’s been twenty minutes of vacuous bullshit so far.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 5, 2022)

I did like the bit when she said something along the lines of 'I've lived in Leeds and Paisley and have seen what damage government can do." 

Naturally, she lived in these places in the 80s, and the government was the Conservatives.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

God this is painful.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 5, 2022)

Jim Pickard of the FT: 'The Anti-Growth Coalition is my favourite second-rate indie band'


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> Baphomet isn’t a Baddie. Gets a lot of bad press but actually represents balance, equilibrium, opposites in harmony and by inference, social order…


He's the devil mush. He's hardly going to be into things for the good and proper.


----------



## not a trot (Oct 5, 2022)

Anti Growth Coalition. Who the fuck told her repeating silly slogans was a good idea.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 5, 2022)

She's doing that prize tomato thing with her hands again.


----------



## Sue (Oct 5, 2022)

Can't believe some of you are watching it. I'm waiting for the fuck ups highlights.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 5, 2022)

not a trot said:


> Anti Growth Coalition. Who the fuck told her repeating silly slogans was a good idea.


"We get it. We listened." 

Is what my bosses said when we asked for a pat rose and got an extra 50p.


----------



## T & P (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> View attachment 345883
> 
> Neckline of her dress cut in the shape of Baphomet himself. Definitely killed the queen.



Shame they're no longer using those stick-on letters for the wall message...


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Can't believe some of you are watching it. I'm waiting for the fuck ups highlights.


I watched the first half, Greenpeace aside, it was extremely dull. Which wasn't surprising.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 5, 2022)

Yeah, the second Greenpeace banner did make me smile.

She hasn't exactly said much, but sadly hasn't had any major fuckups, but then it's easier to read a prepared speech to supporters, compared with live media interviews.


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> He's the devil mush. He's hardly going to be into things for the good and proper.



No he’s not. Baphomet isn’t the devil.

One of the problems with this entity /symbol is that it’s fairly recent, and a kind of invention.
Not the devil although used by Satanists. Who, incidentally, are not devil worshipers.


----------



## Santino (Oct 5, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> "We get it. We listened."
> 
> Is what my bosses said when we asked for a pat rose and got an extra 50p.


I got formally disciplined at work when I tried to pat Rose.


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Can't believe some of you are watching it. I'm waiting for the fuck ups highlights.



Im not. I’m having a redundant discussion about another pretend being.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Can't believe some of you are watching it. I'm waiting for the fuck ups highlights.


We'd been told she'd be speaking for 25 minutes. I tuned in expecting it to be over and grab the highlights and she was _still going on. _


----------



## ska invita (Oct 5, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> We'd been told she'd be speaking for 25 minutes. I tuned in expecting it to be over and grab the highlights and she was _still going on. _


inflation


----------



## SysOut (Oct 5, 2022)

Isn't she supposed to be singing "I did it my way"?


----------



## xenon (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> He's the devil mush. He's hardly going to be into things for the good and proper.



Not actually the devil, just co-opted by Christianity.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 5, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Isn't she supposed to be singing "I did it my way"?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 5, 2022)

not a trot said:


> Anti Growth Coalition. Who the fuck told her repeating silly slogans was a good idea.



I'm anti-growth. Growth is trashing the natural world and not making anyone happier. Shrink the pie and distribute it more fairly!


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I'm anti-growth. Growth is trashing the natural world and not making anyone happier. Shrink the pie and distribute it more fairly!



This.

Excessive growth is pathological.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> This.
> 
> Excessive growth is pathological.




It’s cancer


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It’s cancer



Exactly. Gigantism, Proteus syndrome etc.


See also locusts swarming, lemmings, rabbit and mouse plagues in Australia…


----------



## SysOut (Oct 5, 2022)

ska invita said:


>



Alas, I can't see anything as I have facebook blocked on my PC


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Can't believe some of you are watching it. I'm waiting for the fuck ups highlights.


Stuck in bed with covid. It's not like it would make me feel worse.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Can't believe some of you are watching it. I'm waiting for the fuck ups highlights.


Policies


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> No he’s not. Baphomet isn’t the devil.
> 
> One of the problems with this entity /symbol is that it’s fairly recent, and a kind of invention.
> Not the devil although used by Satanists. Who, incidentally, are not devil worshipers.


Well that's me told.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 5, 2022)

Baphomet was originally a Christian representation of Muhammad. Just sharing knowledge.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

xenon said:


> Not actually the devil, just co-opted by Christianity.


I know, ive been corrected now. Maybe I should have said the Neckline of her dress looked like the devil himself but I was just trying to sound edgy.

I stand by my observations though.


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Well that's me told.



You don’t have to take my word for it Frieda. There’s a whole world of internet out there where you can easily check  




Raheem said:


> Baphomet was originally a Christian representation of Muhammad. Just sharing knowledge.




That‘s one of the possible sources of the name but Baphomet isn’t  a representsrion of Muhammed. And isn’t a Christian symbol.


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

Pickman's model help me out here.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Baphomet was originally a Christian representation of Muhammad. Just sharing knowledge.


Really. I never knew that. Who'd of thought that.


----------



## Sue (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Stuck in bed with covid. It's not like it would make me feel worse.


Sorry to hear you're feeling so bad.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 5, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I did like the bit when she said something along the lines of 'I've lived in Leeds and Paisley and have seen what damage government can do."
> 
> Naturally, she lived in these places in the 80s, and the government was the Conservatives.


So fucking what!

Well, I've been to Hastings and I've been to Brighton
I've been to Eastbourne too
So what, so what
And I've been here, I've been there
I've been every fucking where
So what, so what
So what, so what, you boring little cunt
Well, who cares, who cares what you do
Yeah, who cares, who cares about you, you, you, you, you


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Really. I never knew that. Who'd of thought that.



Except that it’s not true.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> You don’t have to take my word for it Frieda. There’s a whole world of internet out there where you can easily check
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I do take your word for it mate. I try to stay off that Internet thingy. Its full of loonies who see Benzema in everything. He's the devil yeah?


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

Wait. The football player?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 5, 2022)

'_Liz Truss was so boring we got sidelined into discussing the theological status of Baphome_t'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Baphomet was originally a Christian representation of Muhammad. Just sharing knowledge.


how's about you produce some actual evidence for this


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

Wilf said:


> '_Liz Truss was so boring we got sidelined into discussing the theological status of Baphome_t'.


there is no theological status of baphomet


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> View attachment 345883
> 
> Neckline of her dress cut in the shape of Baphomet himself. Definitely killed the queen.


we all know charles administered the fatal pillow


----------



## SysOut (Oct 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> how's about you produce *some* actual evidence for this


Baphomet - Wikipedia


> Raymond of Aguilers, a chronicler of the First Crusade, reports that the troubadours used the term Bafomet for Muhammad, and Bafumaria for a mosque. The name Bafometz later appeared around 1195 in the Occitan poems Senhors, per los nostres peccatz by the troubadour Gavaudan. Around 1250 a poem bewailing the defeat of the Seventh Crusade by Austorc d’Aorlhac again uses Bafomet for Muhammad.



'tis but hearsay evidence, but so is all evidence from so long ago.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> Wait. The football player?


Oh yeah sorry, I meant beelzebod.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 5, 2022)

Raymond of Aguilers


----------



## SysOut (Oct 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> we all know charles administered the fatal pillow


Dig her up - we need an autopsy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Baphomet - Wikipedia
> 
> 'tis but hearsay evidence, but so is all evidence from so long ago.


yeh i saw that. now, since you've taken on this task how about you produce some actual evidence for it being not a _term for _or _mishearing of_ mohammed but baphomet being a christian representation of mohammed_._


----------



## kabbes (Oct 5, 2022)

There’s no such thing as the devil and no such thing as Baphomet. They both exist only as ideas, representations, moral lessons. As such, if the Christians want to decide their devil is Satan is Baphomet, they are no more or less correct about that than they are about any other myth they make up.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Can't believe some of you are watching it. I'm waiting for the fuck ups highlights.


I'm waiting for people to watch the highlights and then report back on here.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh i saw that. now, since you've taken on this task how about you produce some actual evidence for it being not a _term for _or _mishearing of_ mohammed but baphomet being a christian representation of mohammed_._





kabbes said:


> There’s no such thing as the devil and no such thing as Baphomet. They both exist only as ideas, representations, moral lessons. As such, if the Christians want to decide their devil is Satan is Baphomet, they are no more or less correct about that than they are about any other myth they make up


Quite. Here are we are getting excited by the usual state propaganda (myths), remembering, as Fred the Great of Prussia remarked (in essence), that religion is an invention of the state.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 5, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm waiting for people to watch the highlights and then report back on here.


Fuck that I want to see where this baphomet thing is going.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Quite. Here are we are getting excited by the usual state propaganda (myths), remembering, as Fred the Great of Prussia remarked (in essence), that religion is an invention of the state.


i think you'll find it goes back much further than frederick the great, at least to the roman king numa, as machiavelli points out in the discourses (which are freely available online) where he says that religion justifies the state. but there is religion and religion, as anyone who has read the pursuit of the millennium (among other books) will tell you.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 5, 2022)

Haven't seen or read the speech but she seems to have been naming names, a list of her enemies, the anti-growth coalition, which seems to be very numerous.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Haven't seen or read the speech but she seems to have been naming names, a list of her enemies, the anti-growth coalition, which seems to be very numerous.


this may be the longest tory leader's speech in history then


----------



## philosophical (Oct 5, 2022)

M People are the enemies of the M People.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

surplus people like truss are the enemies of us all


----------



## Supine (Oct 5, 2022)

kabbes said:


> There’s no such thing as the devil and no such thing as Baphomet. They both exist only as ideas, representations, moral lessons. As such, if the Christians want to decide their devil is Satan is Baphomet, they are no more or less correct about that than they are about any other myth they make up.



That’s what i thought, until i got to know Liz Truss. Turns out the devil is real.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 5, 2022)

philosophical said:


> M People are the enemies of the M People.



At least they've done one good thing now.


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Oh yeah sorry, I meant beelzebod.





SysOut said:


> Baphomet - Wikipedia
> 
> 'tis but hearsay evidence, but so is all evidence from so long ago.



Baphomet is a fairly recent and deliberately designed symbol, so we can be fairly certain about his provenance. 


Beelzebub is arguably older, although again not the devil.

Even The Devil isn't really the devil. Doesn't even make an appearance in the OT.


Point is that any number of beings entities people symbols signs etc can be given any number of different names and attributes that probably don't pertain to the origins. We project and load all kinds of stuff personal and collective into/onto convenient vessels.

But in the same way it's important and necessary to distinguish Truss from Thatcher and differentiate one foul Home Secretary from the last  despite ideological similarities it's also useful (and I'd argue its importabt) to have a working knowledge of the symbols that inform and flow from our collective culture.

Imo.


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 5, 2022)

Based on the excellent Broken Sword game, I believe the Kinghts Templar were accused of worshiping an idol named Baphomet in order to get rid of them so the king of France could appropriate their wealth. This may or may not be historically accurate


----------



## Wilf (Oct 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> there is no theological status of baphomet


This is like the markets responding to the mini-budget.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 5, 2022)

If some PR wonk did a focus group with Urban:

'So, if the leaders speech was a historical figure, who might that be?'
-_ Baphomet._
'Erm...
- _Oh hang on, does that include representational figures?'_
'Erm, I was thinking more of...
'_No, Baphomet it is!'_


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 5, 2022)




----------



## izz (Oct 5, 2022)

ska invita said:


> looked it up



I'm so proud of young people sometimes   

Brava !


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 5, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> View attachment 345904


A misquote AND a misattribution. Well done internet.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 5, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> View attachment 345883
> 
> Neckline of her dress cut in the shape of Baphomet himself. Definitely killed the queen.


You really think they’d have learnt by now what people can do given a solid colour background


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 5, 2022)

The Anti-Woke Brigade in full effect:


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 5, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> View attachment 345904











						David Attenborough's Overpopulation Claims - BORGEN
					

British broadcaster David Attenborough made headlines recently when he said if population growth is not regulated, the world will head toward disaster.




					www.borgenmagazine.com


----------



## Petcha (Oct 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> The Anti-Woke Brigade in full effect:




Just to remind everyone, this is the person in charge of the public healthcare system. A picture of health herself.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 5, 2022)

Apparently the guy who wrote this song aint pleased. I never understand why artists dont get asked if politicians can use their songs (trump/rolling stones etc)


----------



## Wilf (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Just to remind everyone, this is the person in charge of the public healthcare system. A picture of health herself.


Maybe she isn't, but those are not the grounds on which we should hate her.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Just to remind everyone, this is the person in charge of the public healthcare system. A picture of health herself.


to be fair i don't think the health secretary needs to be a picture of health. they just shouldn't trample over the health of everyone else, and in her brief time at the department of health dr coffey has shown how she doesn't give a fuck about the health of the people, scrapping eg the work that had been done on obesity. she does look pretty much the same now as when i was briefly acquainted with her many years ago. but back then she didn't have the power to damage people's health that she now enjoys.


----------



## LDC (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Just to remind everyone, this is the person in charge of the public healthcare system. A picture of health herself.



Oh fuck off with that shit moralistic bollocks.

She'd be the same cunt if she lived on kale and quinoa and ran every morning.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Apparently the guy who wrote this song aint pleased. I never understand why artists dont get asked if politicians can use their songs (trump/rolling stones etc)



They could have used roxy music's the thrill of it all. Sure Bryan Ferry would have been alright with it


----------



## Cid (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Apparently the guy who wrote this song aint pleased. I never understand why artists dont get asked if politicians can use their songs (trump/rolling stones etc)




Basically licensing agreements. It's pretty complex. I've done some work helping out a friend's band and have completely forgotten most of it. But somewhere between agents, PR, lawyers, management and artists, they will draft an agreement on what the music can be licensed for. Usually that's going to be an exclusive list, and it's a bit difficult to comprehensively work that out. I imagine more established management will be used to working that out, but obviously every artist has different requirements, and every artist wants to keep that list as expansive as possible (money) without compromising too much on their values. Once that agreement is reached the artist probably isn't going to hear about any of the decisions, simply because they're a muso, and would rather be doing other shit. And these things usually have to be worked out very quickly (production schedules). This sounds like someone ballsed up, or possibly there er... hmm. It is possible, though certainly only one of a number of possibilities and no-one should be accused of anything, this is pure speculation... it is possible that an omission of the full nature of the conference to be licensed to could have occurred. Because 'political purposes' is probably something I'd slap in there by default as 'artist should be consulted'.

n.b again, just have kind of tangential experience, not a professional opinion, please don't sue me.


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> A misquote AND a misattribution. Well done internet.











						Attenborough: poorer countries are just as concerned about the environment
					

Veteran broadcaster Sir David says environmental concerns are not solely the preserve of wealthy nations




					www.theguardian.com
				




He said "environment" instead of "planet". Sozzard


----------



## killer b (Oct 5, 2022)

LDC said:


> Oh fuck off with that shit moralistic bollocks.
> 
> She'd be the same cunt if she lived on kale and quinoa and ran every morning.


It's not even moralistic really is it, not even that complex. It's just 'look at this gross fat bitch'


----------



## Petcha (Oct 5, 2022)

Cid said:


> Basically licensing agreements. It's pretty complex. I've done some work helping out a friend's band and have completely forgotten most of it. But somewhere between agents, PR, lawyers, management and artists, they will draft an agreement on what the music can be licensed for. Usually that's going to be an exclusive list, and it's a bit difficult to comprehensively work that out. I imagine more established management will be used to working that out, but obviously every artist has different requirements, and every artist wants to keep that list as expansive as possible (money) without compromising too much on their values. Once that agreement is reached the artist probably isn't going to hear about any of the decisions, simply because they're a muso, and would rather be doing other shit. And these things usually have to be worked out very quickly (production schedules). This sounds like someone ballsed up, or possibly there er... hmm. It is possible, though certainly only one of a number of possibilities and no-one should be accused of anything, this is pure speculation... it is possible that an omission of the full nature of the conference to be licensed to could have occurred. Because 'political purposes' is probably something I'd slap in there by default as 'artist should be consulted'.
> 
> n.b again, just have kind of tangential experience, not a professional opinion, please don't sue me.



I think Trump also used Bruce Springsteen too. Born in the USA. Which apparently he had no power of stopping. It's pretty weird. Springsteen being pretty far left n all.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 5, 2022)

Cid said:


> Basically licensing agreements. It's pretty complex. I've done some work helping out a friend's band and have completely forgotten most of it. But somewhere between agents, PR, lawyers, management and artists, they will draft an agreement on what the music can be licensed for. Usually that's going to be an exclusive list, and it's a bit difficult to comprehensively work that out. I imagine more established management will be used to working that out, but obviously every artist has different requirements, and every artist wants to keep that list as expansive as possible (money) without compromising too much on their values. Once that agreement is reached the artist probably isn't going to hear about any of the decisions, simply because they're a muso, and would rather be doing other shit. And these things usually have to be worked out very quickly (production schedules). This sounds like someone ballsed up, or possibly there er... hmm. It is possible, though certainly only one of a number of possibilities and no-one should be accused of anything, this is pure speculation... it is possible that an omission of the full nature of the conference to be licensed to could have occurred. Because 'political purposes' is probably something I'd slap in there by default as 'artist should be consulted'.
> 
> n.b again, just have kind of tangential experience, not a professional opinion, please don't sue me.


Don't these people just decide to use what they like and fuck the consequences. Then they get a cease and desist and at that point its too late. Conference over


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

I think if the venue has a PRS licence they can pretty much play what they like. It's just a very short DJ set at the end of the day.

If they want to use it on an ad or online or whatever then it needs paying for.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Don't these people just decide to use what they like and fuck the consequences. Then they get a cease and desist and at that point its too late. Conference over



Don't know what the deal is in the US. I remember Bruce and Aerosmith kicking up a fuss but not sure how far they got.


----------



## Cid (Oct 5, 2022)

spitfire said:


> I think if the venue has a PRS licence they can pretty much play what they like. It's just a very short DJ set at the end of the day.
> 
> If they want to use it on an ad or online or whatever then it needs paying for.



It's being broadcast though, I would think you'd need something more than that. Hmm... dunno.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 5, 2022)

izz said:


> I'm so proud of young people sometimes
> 
> Brava !


Oh listen to them all boo and hiss. Oh clutch those pearls in your dead withered fingers, and fuck off into the sunset. Your time is done and you've voted for misery.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

Cid said:


> It's being broadcast though, I would think you'd need something more than that. Hmm... dunno.



That would be covered by the broadcasters publishing deals etc. and there are exemptions for news etc. (I think).

But they aren't licensing it as such, they're just playing it. Like at a wedding.


----------



## Cid (Oct 5, 2022)

spitfire said:


> That would be covered by the broadcasters publishing deals etc. and there are exemptions for news etc. (I think).
> 
> But they aren't licensing it as such, they're just playing it. Like at a wedding.



It's still licensing, PRS just simplifies the process. I mean I think you're probably right somehow anyway, like I say I've forgotten everything I knew about this.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

Cid said:


> It's still licensing, PRS just simplifies the process. I mean I think you're probably right somehow anyway, like I say I've forgotten everything I knew about this.



Yes, technically it is still licensing. But it isn't LICENSING.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 5, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Oh listen to them all boo and hiss. Oh clutch those pearls in your dead withered fingers, and fuck off into the sunset. Your time is done and you've voted for misery.


I particularly liked that they were smiling broadly all the way out


----------



## Storm Fox (Oct 5, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's not even moralistic really is it, not even that complex. It's just 'look at this gross fat bitch'


It depends whether she complains about overweight people and/or smokers in which case hypocrite can be added to a list of qualities.
I'm leaving drinkers off as there is a recommended weekly limit to that and she might be below that limit.


----------



## Cid (Oct 5, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Yes, technically it is still licensing. But it isn't LICENSING.



Yeah, but I'm pretty sure you can't just get your live broadcast conference covered on a standard PRS license. Surely? I don't fucking know...


----------



## spitfire (Oct 5, 2022)

Cid said:


> Yeah, but I'm pretty sure you can't just get your live broadcast conference covered on a standard PRS license. Surely? I don't fucking know...



Some discussion here.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Just to remind everyone, this is the person in charge of the public healthcare system. A picture of health herself.




Your going to be shocked when you see what doctors and nurses get up to for fun


----------



## Raheem (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Apparently the guy who wrote this song aint pleased. I never understand why artists dont get asked if politicians can use their songs (trump/rolling stones etc)



"Your movin' on out..."


----------



## Cid (Oct 5, 2022)

Raheem said:


> "Your movin' on out..."



Drop M People a DM.

e2a: totally forgot that's already a lyric.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 5, 2022)

Kwasi's looking looking absolutely _delighted_ to hear her talk.


----------



## JimW (Oct 5, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Kwasi's looking looking absolutely _delighted_ to hear her talk.
> 
> View attachment 345924


He enjoyed the Queen's funeral a lot more.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 5, 2022)

part of me thinks tough shit on m-people - they wrote a horrible song custom built for middle management motivational seminars, so  its an obvious pick for the tories. See also "search for the hero" -  musical equivalent of new labour.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 5, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> part of me thinks tough shit on m-people - you wrote a horrible song custom built for middle management motivational seminars, so  its an obvious pick for the tories.



It's about divorce


----------



## killer b (Oct 5, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> a horrible song custom built for middle management motivational seminars


it's a song about kicking out a shit boyfriend?


----------



## killer b (Oct 5, 2022)

tbh_ Moving on Up_ is just averagely bad, _Search for the Hero_ is the true horror in M-People's catalogue.


----------



## pesh (Oct 5, 2022)

the really chilling bit was watching Truss take to the stage to the refrain _Nothing can stop me_


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 5, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It's about divorce


but comes accorss like its about a new 3 piece suite of something. ETA - anyway - I guess heather small is not the real enemy here.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 5, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> Attenborough: poorer countries are just as concerned about the environment
> 
> 
> Veteran broadcaster Sir David says environmental concerns are not solely the preserve of wealthy nations
> ...


It seems the jury is out:


			Anyone Who Believes Exponential Growth Can Go On Forever in a Finite World Is Either a Madman or an Economist – Quote Investigator
		


My money is on Marilyn Monroe, Ghandi or Bradley Walsh


----------



## Wilf (Oct 5, 2022)

killer b said:


> tbh_ Moving on Up_ is just averagely bad, _Search for the Hero_ is the true horror in M-People's catalogue.


I suspect starmer plays it, looking in the mirror every morning. He's still searching.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 5, 2022)

JimW said:


> He enjoyed the Queen's funeral a lot more.


There's more coke in Central London


----------



## xenon (Oct 5, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> It's about divorce



TBF all M People's music makes me want to divorce my ears.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 5, 2022)

pesh said:


> the really chilling bit was watching Truss take to the stage to the refrain _Nothing can stop me_



Lots of things can, though.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 5, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I particularly liked that they were smiling broadly all the way out


Back home to read the Daily Mail peddle outrage about how they can't get a gp appointment because...antifa probably, or the blacks


----------



## JimW (Oct 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Lots of things can, though.


A mildly confrontational question from an interviewer, for example.


----------



## story (Oct 5, 2022)

Truss is either going to just keep digging her own grave and trip over herself in her haste to climb into it, or she’s going to become very very biddable and malleable. Which was what I’d assumed she was going to be.

I wonder if this meaty pushy headstrong thing is her attempt to try to be “her own person” and after this she’ll revert to being the Playmobil PM that will pose for any pic and pick any policy that’s punted to her by the big pricks who will no doubt be pushing her from behind.

She’s either gone, or she‘ll buckle.

Pppffttt.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Apparently the guy who wrote this song aint pleased. I never understand why artists dont get asked if politicians can use their songs (trump/rolling stones etc)



Tend to agree, but it can provide some classic moments. I always enjoyed the sight of Donald, plastered in fake tan and foundation, bopping along to the YMCA in a cloud of hairspray, while his fans basked in all that alpha macho energy they somehow saw.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> Truss is either going to just keep digging her own grave and trip over herself in her haste to climb into it, or she’s going to become very very biddable and malleable. Which was what I’d assumed she was going to be.
> 
> I wonder if this meaty pushy headstrong thing is her attempt to try to be “her own person” and after this she’ll revert to being the Playmobil PM that will pose for any pic and pick any policy that’s punted to her by the big pricks who will no doubt be pushing her from behind.
> 
> ...


first aid kit sang they would rather be broken than hollow. liz truss won't have to make that choice as she is already hollow and she will break. and it'll be one of the most peculiarly public breakdowns you'll ever see, like something off the thick of it


----------



## agricola (Oct 5, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> first aid kit sang they would rather be broken than hollow. liz truss won't have to make that choice as she is already hollow and she will break. and it'll be one of the most peculiarly public breakdowns you'll ever see, like something off the thick of it



peculiar like Frasier's condo board presidental run speech?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2022)

agricola said:


> peculiar like Frasier's condo board presidental run speech?


yes but more so


----------



## flypanam (Oct 5, 2022)

pesh said:


> the really chilling bit was watching Truss take to the stage to the refrain _Nothing can stop me_


Like that time Trump was using The Ghostbusters theme tune and stepped on to stage just as Ray Parker Jr sings ‘bustin’ makes me feel good’


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Just to remind everyone, this is the person in charge of the public healthcare system. A picture of health herself.



God help us.  Truss is scrapping the sugar tax and probably also the government's anti-obesity strategy, while the NHS struggles and it's apparently almost impossible to register now with an NHS dentist in England.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 5, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Just to remind everyone, this is the person in charge of the public healthcare system. A picture of health herself.


See, the thing is. 
She's a fucking bellend because she's a Tory. 
Not because of her appearance. 

This is quite tame in comparison of some of the photos out there of me on the piss.


----------



## Serene (Oct 5, 2022)

I have never seen such an arrogant politician.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 5, 2022)

I’ve just watched the speech. The highlight for Truss was the Greenpeace protest. Momentarily livened things up and got the crowd behind her.

The rest was just _odd: _the stilted delivery, the wild eyed desperate smile of someone who knows that they are well out of their depth the palpable nostalgia for 1980 and desire to re-fight battles that have been fought, the story about being on a plane and being ‘angry’ at the gift of an air stewards badge, the stunningly bad research that led to the claim that she’s the only PM to have been to a comprehensive.

But the really odd bit was the intervention placing herself on the side of the growth coalition  against the anti-growth coalition. A battle she apparently intends to lead involving two sides that don’t actually exist. A fight that nobody knew was happening or believes is happening. A gift for the ‘blob’ she thinks she’s counterposed against.

The entire speech was pitched at the dwindling sect that the Tory party has collapsed into. I can’t say it made me angry or more committed to doing stuff. It just made me think that it’s the weirdest speech I’ve ever heard from one of the mainstream party leaders. She’s genuinely off her nut. I can’t believe her controllers let her deliver it frankly.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 5, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> God help us.  Truss is scrapping the sugar tax and probably also the government's anti-obesity strategy, while the NHS struggles and it's apparently almost impossible to register now with an NHS dentist in England.


Just a reminder...


----------



## bellaozzydog (Oct 5, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Just a reminder...
> View attachment 345956


I just signed this 








						Petition: Fast-track access to benefits for terminally ill as soon as diagnosed
					

The current special rules for terminal illness say fast-track benefit applications are only available for those with a terminal diagnosis of 12 months. I feel this is penalising people with a terminal diagnosis  but who are not expected to die in the next twelve months.




					petition.parliament.uk


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 5, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I’ve just watched the speech. The highlight for Truss was the Greenpeace protest. Momentarily livened things up and got the crowd behind her.
> 
> The rest was just _odd: _the stilted delivery, the wild eyed desperate smile of someone who knows that they are well out of their depth the palpable nostalgia for 1980 and desire to re-fight battles that have been fought, the story about being on a plane and being ‘angry’ at the gift of an air stewards badge, the stunningly bad research that led to the claim that she’s the only PM to have been to a comprehensive.
> 
> ...


She's like a weird marionette


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 5, 2022)

story said:


> Truss is either going to just keep digging her own grave and trip over herself in her haste to climb into it, or she’s going to become very very biddable and malleable. Which was what I’d assumed she was going to be.
> 
> I wonder if this meaty pushy headstrong thing is her attempt to try to be “her own person” and after this she’ll revert to being the Playmobil PM that will pose for any pic and pick any policy that’s punted to her by the big pricks who will no doubt be pushing her from behind.
> 
> ...



I wonder how different the outcome would be, between these two scenarios? She's surrounded by the kind of fanatics and sociopaths who, if they did end up pulling the strings, might just make her carry on digging the same grave.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 5, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Just a reminder...
> View attachment 345956



Yeah, fair enough, but abandoning public health messaging (Truss says she doesn't want to tell us what to put in our shopping baskets), strategies and taxes seems like a new assault on the health of the nation.  The sugar tax wasn't money that was disappearing into thin air, but was being used to fund programmes to improve health.  Truss plan to axe sugar tax runs into legal and parliamentary hitches


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I wonder how different the outcome would be, between these two scenarios? She's surrounded by the kind of fanatics and sociopaths who, if they did end up pulling the strings, might just make her carry on digging the same grave.



She’s also surrounded by MPs who overwhelmingly voted against her. At some point - if only in an attempt to save their own skins - they’ll ditch her. Her ideas and policy ideas, such as they are, are dead in the water


----------



## Leighsw2 (Oct 5, 2022)

Ming said:


> Internet political commentator with some dodgy posting history. I do think she's an effective communicator though
> Good at skewering Tory hypocrisy in bite size 2 minute pieces.


She's a fucking Starmerite cultist and she can fuck off!


----------



## Sue (Oct 5, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> the stunningly bad research that led to the claim that she’s the only PM to have been to a comprehensive.


Gordon Brown wasn't exactly that long ago.


----------



## belboid (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Gordon Brown wasn't exactly that long ago.


His school (founded 1536) only went comprehensive a couple of years after he left


----------



## Sue (Oct 5, 2022)

belboid said:


> His school (founded 1536) only went comprehensive a couple of years after he left


Interesting. Most Scottish schools that were previously selective have 'academy' or 'grammar' in their names so plain 'high school' is unusual.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 5, 2022)

I can imagine quite esily that Truss dreams every night of having to present a 6th form seminar on algebra but did not do any preparation, doesn't understand algebra , has forgotten to wear any trousers and is wearing pink bunny slippers. We have all had this dream


----------



## belboid (Oct 5, 2022)

Sue said:


> Interesting. Most Scottish schools that were previously selective have 'academy' or 'grammar' in their names so plain 'high school' is unusual.


Yeah, I think that’s because it is so old and ‘special’. It started being called a high school in the mid 1800s, apparently.


----------



## belboid (Oct 5, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> I can imagine quite esily that Truss dreams every night of having to present a 6th form seminar on algebra but did not do any preparation, doesn't understand algebra , has forgotten to wear any trousers and is wearing pink bunny slippers. We have all had this dream


Except she’d think she’d still smash it.


----------



## izz (Oct 6, 2022)

*sigh

Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?


----------



## ska invita (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?


a 3 word soundbite designed to center her political project - also makes an enemy to oppose: the new "remoaners" or "project fear" or "bleeding heart liberals"
if she lasts the winter llook out for another 3 word slogan soon along the lines of Get Growth Done


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?



No but Truss is definitely part of it. Every time she opens her gob and blathers something about growth the economy shrinks a bit more.


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?


It’s the tobacco industry; everyone knows smoking tabs stunt growth


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?



Themmuns


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?


All the people who give half a shit about the planet


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?



It’s doesn’t exist. It’s a spectre, it’s hedonic, it cannot be seen etc.

What Truss has in mind when she summons it up is the following;

Trade unions who oppose cutting workplace rights and decent contracts of empowerment
Types who want to protect the environment and generally oppose just letting developers build what they want and where they want
Wankers who think bankers get paid too much and should pay back what they took from taxpayers in 2008 before they earn a penny
Thickos who can’t understand why borrowing money to pay for tax cuts for the rich and corporations isn’t the way to deliver growth

Those who hold these types of views are charged by Truss of being opposed to growth as she believes that only an immiserised working class, the property speculator and developer, the banker and the financial elite can unlock growth.

This is the anti growth coalition in her mind.


----------



## story (Oct 6, 2022)

It’s germinated so fast, this stupid phrase. When the speechwriters come up with this shit do they immediately send out memos to all the news agencies and press editors?

How is it possible that this idiotic nonsense has become part of the lexicon so fast? Why was it adopted so readily?

It’s worse than any wanky work speak.

Are we now supposed to categorise everything by this metric?


----------



## story (Oct 6, 2022)

.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 6, 2022)

story said:


> It’s germinated so fast, this stupid phrase. When the speechwriters come up with this shit do they immediately send out memos to all the news agencies and press editors?
> 
> How is it possible that this idiotic nonsense has become part of the lexicon so fast? Why was it adopted so readily?
> 
> ...


i blame journalists, they parrot this stuff
the fact that Levelling Up is talked about with a straight face shows how cretinous the whole thing is


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 6, 2022)

It was repeated so often in her speech journos were picking up on it and mocking it straight away. So it's had exposure through people criticising it as well as those who seem to think it's actually A Thing. (I have no idea how many of the latter there may actually be.)


----------



## story (Oct 6, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> It was repeated so often in her speech journos were picking up on it and mocking it straight away. So it's had exposure through people criticising it as well as those who seem to think it's actually A Thing. (I have no idea how many of the latter there may actually be.)




The midnight news on the Beeb last night was using it as if it was an established idea of substance. No piss taking involved. Just a direct reference to “the anti-growth coalition”.


That may be intended as an exasperated in joke but it does the job of getting into general consciousness very neatly.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 6, 2022)

story said:


> Are we now supposed to categorise everything by this metric?



Growth, economically speaking, is a relatively new metric by which to measure how a place is doing. What Truss doesn’t get or doesn’t care about is that it emerged as the key economic measure in Britain at a specific time (after the Second World War) and for a specific reason (the desire, shared by both main parties, to rebuild and then build a _national economy. _

Whilst growth is obviously desirable and necessary- even under a globalised market economy - there are also obvious sensible limits and social, cultural, environmental, political and economic nuances and considerations, some of which are discussed here: Truss neither understands growth or the steps required to deliver it

Then there is the fact that the Truss growth plan seemingly acknowledges that Britain is a major economy, but one with low growth, low wages, low investment, substantial debts and a large dependence on imports for essential supplies, such as natural gas. She seems to believe that these now embedded deformities can be overcome by a) a market led financial boom a la the 1980’s (Truss really should have walked on to the conference stage to Wham rather than M People such is the overwhelming nostalgia of everything she says and does) and b) just saying ‘growth’ over and over again until it appears.

Her idea is briefly: ahistorical, ground in really very basic economic misunderstanding and nostalgia, economically illiterate given the current and long run conditions and is visibly unable to even command the support of those it is designed to unleash. As a strategy it’s already in tatters and politically toxic. I give it another 4 weeks before it’s dumped except in name only.


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

story said:


> It’s germinated so fast, this stupid phrase. When the speechwriters come up with this shit do they immediately send out memos to all the news agencies and press editors?
> 
> How is it possible that this idiotic nonsense has become part of the lexicon so fast? Why was it adopted so readily?
> 
> ...


Who's adopted it? ATM it's just being reported as a line in a lame speech Truss gave yesterday - I can mostly just see a mixture of mockery and bemusement so far. These things can become embedded, but I doubt this one will.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Growth, economically speaking, is a relatively new metric by which to measure how a place is doing. What Truss doesn’t get or doesn’t care about is that it emerged as the key economic measure in Britain at a specific time (after the Second World War) and for a specific reason (the desire, shared by both main parties, to rebuild and then build a _national economy. _
> 
> Whilst growth is obviously desirable and necessary- even under a globalised market economy - there are also obvious sensible limits and social, cultural, environmental, political and economic nuances and considerations, some of which are discussed here: Truss neither understands growth or the steps required to deliver it
> 
> ...


Put more simply, it's also the only metric that they're (publicly prepared to admit to) that a) interests them or b) they _believe_ that their class war policies could possibly achieve.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 6, 2022)

story said:


> It’s germinated so fast, this stupid phrase. When the speechwriters come up with this shit do they immediately send out memos to all the news agencies and press editors?
> 
> How is it possible that this idiotic nonsense has become part of the lexicon so fast? Why was it adopted so readily?
> 
> ...




The press love a good catchphrase and are unable to do the basic thing of asking a politician directly “what do you mean by woke/Anti Growth Coalition? Can you define it in a sentence?” And are fundamentally incapable of challenging the hand that feeds them anonymous WhatsApp messages from the cabinet


Mainstream news is essentially just a parrot factory that does little but amplify the worst of politicians views


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 6, 2022)

She's too vacuous to deploy a phrase like that. 

Get Brexit Done is essentially neutral and can mean anything to anyone. Remain and Leave alike. All want Brexit 'done'.

Anti Growth can also mean anything, but inevitably is hostile


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 6, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> She’s also surrounded by MPs who overwhelmingly voted against her. At some point - if only in an attempt to save their own skins - they’ll ditch her. Her ideas and policy ideas, such as they are, are dead in the water



True. Imagine the kind of narcissist you'd have to be to actively put yourself forward to be in this position, standing on a small hillock on a desert island shouting 'I'm the king of the castle' as the sea level rises rapidly, surrounded by seethingly shark-infested waters, and all you have to defend you is a pack of starving wolverines that might turn on you any moment.


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> True. Imagine the kind of narcissist you'd have to be to actively put yourself forward to be in this position, standing on a small hillock on a desert island shouting 'I'm the king of the castle' as the sea level rises rapidly, surrounded by seethingly shark-infested waters, and all you have to defend you is a pack of starving wolverines that might turn on you any moment.


Isn't this the precise situation Jeremy Corbyn found himself in in 2016?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> Isn't this the precise situation Jeremy Corbyn found himself in in 2016?


Some big differences, I would think. Corbyn had a bunch of loyal supporters from the same wing of the party. He was _clean_ when it came to the Iraq War and various other New Labour atrocities - that gave him some moral standing. He believed in something and could rally those with similar beliefs behind him. 

Strikes me by comparison that Truss really is on her own. Even her biggest supporters are only supporting her tactically. Precious few people actually believe in her or what she stands for. What does she stand for?


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

I think you're imagining a lot of those differences. Truss is every bit as ideologically driven as Corbyn was for one thing - you just disagree with her.


----------



## story (Oct 6, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Growth, economically speaking, is a relatively new metric by which to measure how a place is doing. What Truss doesn’t get or doesn’t care about is that it emerged as the key economic measure in Britain at a specific time (after the Second World War) and for a specific reason (the desire, shared by both main parties, to rebuild and then build a _national economy. _
> 
> Whilst growth is obviously desirable and necessary- even under a globalised market economy - there are also obvious sensible limits and social, cultural, environmental, political and economic nuances and considerations, some of which are discussed here: Truss neither understands growth or the steps required to deliver it
> 
> ...




But Growth is also an embedded tenet of capitalism anyway so the notion underpins every market economy. I get what you’re saying but it’s also a kind of tautology to mention it, as if it’s something they invented, at all.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 6, 2022)

when we see large rallies for Truss and hundreds of thousands joining the tory party because of her platform then the comparison holds up
its an ego trip if you are in your own cabal, much less so if you have popular support


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 6, 2022)

Corbyn had actual supporters around him. Not just in the membership but on his front bench. OK, they may not have been very effectual in the end and they may have shared the bench with a wolverine or two, but some of them were genuinely on his side. I'm not sure that's the case for Truss.

I'm also not convinced she's 'ideologically driven' in the same way Corbyn was - or to make a closer-to-home comparison, in the way Thatcher was. Thatcher was vicious but even those who despised her can acknowledge that to some extent it was rooted in a genuine belief that small state etc. was _better _for people. When Truss talks about 'the right thing to do' it's hard to see even a grain of anything but instrumentalism in it - it just means 'the best way to wring what we can out of this place before someone grabs the wheel off us'.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> I think you're imagining a lot of those differences. Truss is every bit as ideologically driven as Corbyn was for one thing - you just disagree with her.


Not convinced. She resuscitated some bastardised form of early-years Thatcherism during the tory leadership campaign because she could see - correctly - that promising tax cuts and a smaller state would win with that particular electorate. 'ideology' as a means to power. 

Corbyn is an entirely different case. I'd argue that it wasn't really about him.  He himself, at the start at least, insisted that it wasn't really about him. You didn't need to find Corbyn inspirational as a leader - you could back him because of what he stood for. It may be that we find Truss's Thatcher tribute act laughable, but it's an attempt at being an inspirational leader. She's amazingly bad at it, but it's what she's trying to do.


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not convinced. She resuscitated some bastardised form of early-years Thatcherism during the tory leadership campaign because she could see - correctly - that promising tax cuts and a smaller state would win with that particular electorate. 'ideology' as a means to power.


That's what lots of people thought, then she followed through with the promises as soon as she won - actions she definitely didn't need to take. She's into all that mad shit, for sure.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> True. Imagine the kind of narcissist you'd have to be to actively put yourself forward to be in this position, standing on a small hillock on a desert island shouting 'I'm the king of the castle' as the sea level rises rapidly, surrounded by seethingly shark-infested waters, and all you have to defend you is a pack of starving wolverines that might turn on you any moment.



So many of the tory MPs interviewed about the Truss policies have commented that it'll affect their chances of being re-elected.
That's what they care about, not the effect the policies will have on people's lives

E2a I don't recall  a single interviewer pulling them up on this


----------



## story (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> Who's adopted it? ATM it's just being reported as a line in a lame speech Truss gave yesterday - I can mostly just see a mixture of mockery and bemusement so far. These things can become embedded, but I doubt this one will.




Was listening to the late night news and the newsreader used the phrase as if it was an established and widely recognised thing. Normally the Beeb clarify things repeatedly on the day the news is made because people will be catching up and may not have heard the earlier bulletins in that 24 hour period. This time they didn’t. 

The way it was just… there, as part of the narrative, made me think of the way the American media suddenly and universally started referring to Antifa. We Europeans mostly had a very different and more nuanced and more _accurate_ understanding of what Antifa is but suddenly the term meant something different and really quite specific (and largely wrong) once the US press started saying it.

Just, yunno, interested to see a term used almost as slang and it may mean different things as it travels.


Like this three times repeat thing that’s taken off. Every speech writer knows that you say three things, or the same thing three times in three different ways to get the point across. They simplified that to great effect with _education, education, education_ and now that’s been dumbed down to point of being a zombie version of itself.


----------



## story (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> That's what lots of people thought, then she followed through with the promises as soon as she won - actions she definitely didn't need to take. She's into all that mad shit, for sure.



I‘m not so sure she wasn’t just kinda pushed along by the wind of her own bluster.

Let‘s see if (if she hangs on past the NY) she has any more Big Ideas or just sort of slumps into the mire.


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

Her actions and long-stated words match up, I think the most plausible explanation is that she believes in what she's doing tbh.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?


Anyone who doesn't agree with Liz Truss including quite a lot of her own MP's


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?


Forces of anarchy: wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons, headshrinkers – who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody’s. Chinese restaurants.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> Forces of anarchy: wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons, headshrinkers – who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody’s. Chinese restaurants.


... _Your boys took one helluva beating!_


----------



## Petcha (Oct 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not convinced. She resuscitated some bastardised form of early-years Thatcherism during the tory leadership campaign because she could see - correctly - that promising tax cuts and a smaller state would win with that particular electorate. 'ideology' as a means to power.
> 
> Corbyn is an entirely different case. I'd argue that it wasn't really about him.  He himself, at the start at least, insisted that it wasn't really about him. You didn't need to find Corbyn inspirational as a leader - you could back him because of what he stood for. It may be that we find Truss's Thatcher tribute act laughable, but it's an attempt at being an inspirational leader. She's amazingly bad at it, but it's what she's trying to do.



The scary thing is that it makes you realise how effective a politician Thatcher was, objectively. Truss is completely and utterly stupid and incompetent and if this leads to the end of the Tories for at two more election cycles then I think we can suck up her incompetence for 2 years right? If they change leader there's every chance it won't be the predicted record landslide they're currently looking at.


----------



## maomao (Oct 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The scary thing is that it makes you realise how effective a politician Thatcher was, objectively. Truss is completely and utterly stupid and incompetent and if this leads to the end of the Tories for at two more election cycles then I think we can suck up her incompetence for 2 years right? If they change leader there's every chance it won't be the predicted record landslide they're currently looking at.


Some of us were hoping for a centrist Tory to get rid of Starmer.


----------



## cesare (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> Forces of anarchy: wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons, headshrinkers – who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody’s. Chinese restaurants.


You realise the sort of people you’re going to attract, don’t you killer b? Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, Rear Admirals, queer Admirals, Vice-Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo- loyalists, crypto-loyalists.


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

cesare said:


> You realise the sort of people you’re going to attract, don’t you killer b? Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, Rear Admirals, queer Admirals, Vice-Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo- loyalists, crypto-loyalists.


this is a fairly accurate summary of what's left of Liz Truss' electoral coalition tbf


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 6, 2022)

cesare said:


> You realise the sort of people you’re going to attract, don’t you killer b? Thugs, bully-boys, psychopaths, sacked policemen, security guards, sacked security guards, racialists, Paki-bashers, queer-bashers, Chink-bashers, anybody-bashers, Rear Admirals, queer Admirals, Vice-Admirals, fascists, neo-fascists, crypto-fascists, loyalists, neo- loyalists, crypto-loyalists.


Do you think so? He thought recruitment might be difficult.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 6, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The scary thing is that it makes you realise how effective a politician Thatcher was, objectively. Truss is completely and utterly stupid and incompetent and if this leads to the end of the Tories for at two more election cycles then I think we can suck up her incompetence for 2 years right? If they change leader there's every chance it won't be the predicted record landslide they're currently looking at.


This is the bind for the Tories. Stick with Truss and face possible disaster or change again and, well, face possible disaster. I don't think the tories  changing leader twice during a five-year term is a recipe for electoral success.


----------



## cesare (Oct 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Do you think so? He thought recruitment might be difficult.


That was 1976 though, back when the Tories occupied the space that Labour does now.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 6, 2022)

And I think we're all officially _old_.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> This is the bind for the Tories. Stick with Truss and face possible disaster or change again and, well, face possible disaster. I don't think the tories  changing leader twice during a five-year term is a recipe for electoral success.



Well, no, of course the election's gone. But it would be nice if they were utterly trounced. Where was Sunak during the conference btw?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2022)

The little white line annotations on these BoE graphs has made me chuckle; they're clearly laying blame.


----------



## killer b (Oct 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And I think we're all officially _old_.


I've never actually watched Reggie Perrin, I only know that speech from it being shared loads on the internet


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 6, 2022)

ska invita said:


> i blame journalists, they parrot this stuff
> the fact that Levelling Up is talked about with a straight face shows how cretinous the whole thing is


My personal bugbear is 'double down'. Everyone these days is 'doubling down' on almost everything. It drives me to despair. My 68 year old mother and my 15 year old son have both used it in conversation with me, and have had to be told never to do so again.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 6, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> My personal bugbear is 'double down'. Everyone these days is 'doubling down' on almost everything. It drives me to despair. My 68 year old mother and my 15 year old son have both used it in conversation with me, and have had to be told never to do so again.


I hope you have said it several times, each one a little more stridently.

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> I've never actually watched Reggie Perrin, I only know that speech from it being shared loads on the internet


Young people. * shakes head *


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 6, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> I hope you have said it several times, each one a little more stridently.
> 
> Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


I don't generally increase 'stridency' in desperation. Taking a consistent and firm approach from the start is best. Neither have used it since.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 6, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> My personal bugbear is 'double down'. Everyone these days is 'doubling down' on almost everything. It drives me to despair. My 68 year old mother and my 15 year old son have both used it in conversation with me, and have had to be told never to do so again.


Its a real 'thing' to be fair - says a lot about our times. Levelling Up doesnt actually happen - Doubling Down does


----------



## 8ball (Oct 6, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Its a real 'thing' to be fair - says a lot about our times. Levelling Up doesnt actually happen - Doubling Down does



Usually before a u-turn.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 6, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I don't generally increase 'stridency' in desperation. Taking a consistent and firm approach from the start is best. Neither have used it since.



And keep your head down too.  Just in case a point is flying past.


----------



## izz (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> Forces of anarchy: wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons, headshrinkers – who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody’s. Chinese restaurants.


Almost all of these I quite like really 😃


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 6, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Its a real 'thing' to be fair - says a lot about our times. Levelling Up doesnt actually happen - Doubling Down does





8ball said:


> And keep your head down too.  Just in case a point is flying past.


Not under my roof it doesn't. We may stand firm, or reinforce our feelings, or emphasise our previous words, or any number of things, but we don't 'double down' because this is not an American cable news studio.

Highly doubtful a point I needed to grasp would fly past my head.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 6, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Highly doubtful a point I needed to grasp would fly past my head.



Up to you whether you feel the need to grasp any.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> Forces of anarchy: wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons, headshrinkers – who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, Play For Today, squatters, Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody’s. Chinese restaurants.


Trendy lefty do-gooders


----------



## two sheds (Oct 6, 2022)

The increasing use of "literally" is annoying where it's redundant, too, as in "I looked down, and it was literally a dog". As if it's going to be metaphorically a dog


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 6, 2022)

Danny La Rouge made a thread for this yesterday guys


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 6, 2022)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Danny La Rouge made a thread for this yesterday guys



Do you mean, literally yesterday?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Do you mean, literally yesterday?


No, like literally like yesterday. Anyway...

She's now gone to Prague on a piss up, which she'll probably screw up somehow while doubling down on something or other.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 6, 2022)

So where do I sign up for the Anti Growth Coalition? it sounds like the most sensible idea Truss has had. Iv not been following that closely mind


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2022)

killer b said:


> I've never actually watched Reggie Perrin, I only know that speech from it being shared loads on the internet



I didn't get where I am today by listening to people who havent actually watched Reggie Perrin.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 6, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> So where do I sign up for the Anti Growth Coalition? it sounds like the most sensible idea Truss has had. Iv not been following that closely mind


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


>


Gotta be some scope for confusion between the AGC and the ACG


----------



## Raheem (Oct 6, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


>


Presumably only available in children's sizes.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 6, 2022)

an interesting take from a contemporary at oxford...









						'I went to Oxford with Liz Truss - now she's PM and I'm a sex worker'
					

A sex worker and dominatrix who went to university with Prime Minister Liz Truss reflects on how their lives took very different paths.




					www.kentonline.co.uk


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 6, 2022)

cuppa tee said:


> an interesting take from a contemporary at oxford...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



One fucks people over the other one at least asks first


----------



## JimW (Oct 6, 2022)

When her supporters complain about the antis we can call it a growth whore moan. I thang yew.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 6, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> One fucks people over the other one at least asks first



i have not used her service but i imagine her clients do the asking..


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 6, 2022)

cuppa tee said:


> i have not used her service but i imagine her clients do the asking..



Everyone has to advertise


----------



## Serene (Oct 6, 2022)

I told my boss today that my poor performance was due to the anti-growth coalition. That it is because my entrepreneur skills are punished by regulation.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 6, 2022)

Comparisons with Thatcher.:
Thatcher had North Sea oil and gas. She stood on solid ground there, as well as - yes - the coal, car, rail industry and so many things which she herself got rid of, or whose demise she prepared.
Saudi oil minster Yamani criticised her for not investing the oil revenue in infrastructure etc.
The point being, there can be no comparison with Thatcher.


----------



## eightball (Oct 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Gotta be some scope for confusion between the AGC and the ACG


Splitters


----------



## LDC (Oct 6, 2022)

Serene said:


> I told my boss today that my poor performance was due to the anti-growth coalition. That it is because my entrepreneur skills are punished by regulation.



Good work! It is asking for some strong meme making creativity to make the term go comically viral. _Didn't do your homework? Yeah, anti-growth coalition stopped me._


----------



## Serene (Oct 7, 2022)

Need to keep an eye on the Downing street cat. She will probably have it put down to save on feeding it.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2022)

This could be on the polls thread, but I'll put it here as it's ultimately about whether truss survives.  We are at around 25% Labour leads at the moment and it's actually hard to know how firm they are.  It's a solid assumption that there isn't much active attraction to Labour there.  My take/guess is the bonkers leads - or at least the ramping up from the 10-15% leads over johnson - was almost entirely an explosion of 'fuck me, they've broken the markets/fucked us even further/gone into hiding/it's fucking madness'.  All of that, along with Labour currently being a void, a party that has missed its moment to promote public sector solutions, could be temporary.  I'll be honest, I thought the leads would be back around 15% or less now.

Maybe it really is 'the economy stupid', underneath which is a massive attack on working class living standards and security (also affecting swathes of the middle class is lesser but significant ways).  A laying bare of neo-liberalism along with ceding any claim to being economically competent.  If that's the driver, rather than just 'fuck this madness',  it could actually get worse for the tories with the rise in mortgage payments.  I know most people on here have been arguing the tories are fucked, with or without truss, but I'm only just coming round to that.  It will actually be quite an achievement if they can propel Labour and starmer into power, a non-party led by an empty suit at the moment. And not even the glitzy self confident non-party of new labour, with all it's gloss and blather.  Something even... _emptier_.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 7, 2022)

Yes, I heard someone talking about this recently, sorry, can't remember who but it was coming from left of Labour and it struck a chord: in comparison to _this _Labour, New Labour actually had ideas and then did something about at least some of them when they got in. It was the wrong solutions to the problems, it was insufficient, sure, and politically engaged people might have seen that from the start, but in the run-up to 97 it looked to the more casual observer like a transformative, even radical programme.

I'm old enough to have accepted that no Labour party that'll ever get a sniff of power will be a Labour party I'd fully support, but even taking that as read, this current incarnation is beyond infuriating - it's so lead-footed, so unable to seize obvious moments and capitalise on them, so incapable of and apparently uninterested in projecting a narrative that could conceivably appeal to _anyone_.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Yes, I heard someone talking about this recently, sorry, can't remember who but it was coming from left of Labour and it struck a chord: in comparison to _this _Labour, New Labour actually had ideas and then did something about at least some of them when they got in. It was the wrong solutions to the problems, it was insufficient, sure, and politically engaged people might have seen that from the start, but in the run-up to 97 it looked to the more casual observer like a transformative, even radical programme.
> 
> I'm old enough to have accepted that no Labour party that'll ever get a sniff of power will be a Labour party I'd fully support, but even taking that as read, this current incarnation is beyond infuriating - it's so lead-footed, so unable to seize obvious moments and capitalise on them, so incapable of and apparently uninterested in projecting a narrative that could conceivably appeal to _anyone_.


that's because shammer's war is against the labour left and not the tories


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I'm old enough to have accepted that no Labour party that'll ever get a sniff of power will be a Labour party I'd fully support, but even taking that as read, this current incarnation is beyond infuriating - it's so lead-footed, so unable to seize obvious moments and capitalise on them, so incapable of and apparently uninterested in projecting a narrative that could conceivably appeal to _anyone_.


Yep, just imagine if Labour had _already _got plans to nationalise rail and various parts of the public utility infrastructure.  Not only could they hammer home the need for public sectors solutions in those moment of malicious intent from the tories, they could also point out that this was what Labour had always been about.  Labour would still have pretty weak bonds with the working class, but at the policy level, this would seal the deal.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)

> Senior Conservative MPs have urged Liz Truss to launch a public information campaign to encourage people to reduce their energy use after No 10 blocked the idea over fears it would seem like the actions of a “nanny state”.


she's afraid of nannies now


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> that's because shammer's war is against the labour left and not the tories


Aye and even now you hear the mantras about starmer's Labour being _different_.  This is actually the moment for Labour to emphasise the return to the party's history.  However weak that would be, this is the time to bang on about 'Labour created the NHS/nationalised railways, public utilities... this is the time to run these services for the workers and users, not shareholders...'.  Fuck me, it's a strategy that writes itself.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)

Sounds too much like Corbyn for him.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Sounds too much like Corbyn for him.


Unfortunately, I think that is a pretty central part of Labour's positioning at the moment. And, ironically, the public sector policies were the best received bit of the Corbyn era (even if they were presented as an increasingly incoherent mishmash in 2019).  There's an element of throwing away your best weapons because they were also your predecessor's best weapons.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 7, 2022)

And its always been true that people will support certain policies perceived as 'too far left' if they are put forward by _people _who are not perceived that way, just as support for BNP policies was always far higher if you presented them to people without saying they were BNP policies. Ergo, if Starmer and his team were more agile they could quite easily have picked some of the more popular policies associated with Corbyn straight off the shelf and just given them a little sprinkling of centrist glitter and they'd have been good to go.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)

We're not Corbyn as opposed to we're not tory.


----------



## belboid (Oct 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> We're not Corbyn as opposed to we're not tory.


Neither Corbyn nor Tory, but International Vacuity.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)

Merger with the Lib Dems on the cards then


----------



## Knotted (Oct 7, 2022)

izz said:


> *sigh
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what this 'anti-growth coalition' actually is. ?



Reminds me a lot of Tony Blair's "Forces of Conservativism", it also reminds me of the sort of thing Frank Furedi and his sect were saying 25 years ago. Fairly standard demagogy where you identify the various elements that oppose you and lump them together in a "you're either with me or against me" sort of way. With Truss the fanatic/true believer I think it's heartfelt as well and I actually thought it was rather good as a piece of demagogy in a "go woke, go broke" sort of way - that has real resonance with right wingers I think. The problem is of course that the wheels have come off her bus and everything she says sounds absurd. She's happily demolishing decades of conservative thinking.


----------



## izz (Oct 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Reminds me a lot of Tony Blair's "Forces of Conservativism", it also reminds me of the sort of thing Frank Furedi and his sect were saying 25 years ago. Fairly standard demagogy where you identify the various elements that oppose you and lump them together in a "you're either with me or against me" sort of way. With Truss the fanatic/true believer I think it's heartfelt as well and I actually thought it was rather good as a piece of demagogy in a "go woke, go broke" sort of way - that has real resonance with right wingers I think. The problem is of course that the wheels have come off her bus and everything she says sounds absurd. She's happily demolishing decades of conservative thinking.


Using the word 'coalition' kinda gives it more weight, implies her enemies have organised and conspired against her, rather than disagreed independently but also reveals paranoia. I wonder who it was first coined it ?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)

A bit wishy washy


----------



## JimW (Oct 7, 2022)

Imagine if the anti-growth coalition goes woke, it'll be the beginning of the end times.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 7, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Corbyn had actual supporters around him. Not just in the membership but on his front bench. OK, they may not have been very effectual in the end and they may have shared the bench with a wolverine or two, but some of them were genuinely on his side. I'm not sure that's the case for Truss.
> 
> I'm also not convinced she's 'ideologically driven' in the same way Corbyn was - or to make a closer-to-home comparison, in the way Thatcher was. Thatcher was vicious but even those who despised her can acknowledge that to some extent it was rooted in a genuine belief that small state etc. was _better _for people. When Truss talks about 'the right thing to do' it's hard to see even a grain of anything but instrumentalism in it - it just means 'the best way to wring what we can out of this place before someone grabs the wheel off us'.



I actually think it's the other way round. Thatcher in practice wasn't small state and I don't believe for a minute she believed the small state ideology. Thatcher was a class warrior who deployed ideology to carry out that class war - too smart to be a true believer. I think Truss does actually believe this stuff.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Merger with the Lib Dems on the cards then


I know the Tories are finished but the Lib Dems are not that desperate yet


----------



## brogdale (Oct 7, 2022)

Truss' numbers look like the pound tanking:


----------



## Knotted (Oct 7, 2022)

Wilf said:


> This could be on the polls thread, but I'll put it here as it's ultimately about whether truss survives.  We are at around 25% Labour leads at the moment and it's actually hard to know how firm they are.  It's a solid assumption that there isn't much active attraction to Labour there.  My take/guess is the bonkers leads - or at least the ramping up from the 10-15% leads over johnson - was almost entirely an explosion of 'fuck me, they've broken the markets/fucked us even further/gone into hiding/it's fucking madness'.  All of that, along with Labour currently being a void, a party that has missed its moment to promote public sector solutions, could be temporary.  I'll be honest, I thought the leads would be back around 15% or less now.
> 
> Maybe it really is 'the economy stupid', underneath which is a massive attack on working class living standards and security (also affecting swathes of the middle class is lesser but significant ways).  A laying bare of neo-liberalism along with ceding any claim to being economically competent.  If that's the driver, rather than just 'fuck this madness',  it could actually get worse for the tories with the rise in mortgage payments.  I know most people on here have been arguing the tories are fucked, with or without truss, but I'm only just coming round to that.  It will actually be quite an achievement if they can propel Labour and starmer into power, a non-party led by an empty suit at the moment. And not even the glitzy self confident non-party of new labour, with all it's gloss and blather.  Something even... _emptier_.



Just to be a bit contrarian, I wonder if Starmer is cutting through atm. He had a good conference and making a small but significant headway against the SNP can't be put down to Truss's failures.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Just to be a bit contrarian, I wonder if Starmer is cutting through atm. He had a good conference and making a small but significant headway against the SNP can't be put down to Truss's failures.


I think it can; he's just not Truss, that's all.


----------



## agricola (Oct 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Just to be a bit contrarian, I wonder if Starmer is cutting through atm. He had a good conference and making a small but significant headway against the SNP can't be put down to Truss's failures.



I don't think he is - this collapse in the government is almost entirely self-inflicted, they aren't being routed because Sir Kier has forensically pulled all the rugs out from under them.   If (when) she is binned off and replaced by Sunak I think the Tory polling goes up by a minimum of 10% overnight.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Unfortunately, I think that is a pretty central part of Labour's positioning at the moment. And, ironically, the public sector policies were the best received bit of the Corbyn era (even if they were presented as an increasingly incoherent mishmash in 2019).  There's an element of throwing away your best weapons because they were also your predecessor's best weapons.


2017 was the best chance of an updated post war social contract. I've been told on here repeatedly that it wouldn't work again now but what else should be done than invest in infrastructure and people? As you say 2019 became a wish list of all sorts of stuff.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Just to be a bit contrarian, I wonder if Starmer is cutting through atm. He had a good conference and making a small but significant headway against the SNP can't be put down to Truss's failures.


I think you are right in the sense that a space has opened up for someone/something like starmer, by virtue of being 'the other party' and also not scaring the horses - not even knowing how to scare the horses.  I suspect his delivery and performance has/will improve also.  He's been like a deer in the headlights the last few months, but he certainly can get better, basically, getting back to being forensic kieth.  A bit of confidence won't exactly work wonders, but could get him to the point where he's able to mount an effective attack.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2022)

agricola said:


> I don't think he is - this collapse in the government is almost entirely self-inflicted, they aren't being routed because Sir Kier has forensically pulled all the rugs out from under them.   *If (when) she is binned off and replaced by Sunak I think the Tory polling goes up by a minimum of 10% overnight.*


I think that would be the outcome if they found a way to get sunak in.  Trouble is, given that she didn't resign last week after she killed the markets, I don't see how that happens now.


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I think that would be the outcome if they found a way to get sunak in.  Trouble is, given that she didn't resign last week after she killed the markets, I don't see how that happens now.



There will probably be more dramatic events and unforced errors that offer further opportunities for the tories to ditch her. But I wouldnt want to have to try to predict them, or exactly what mechanism they will use to get rid of her, or the timing, far in advance of it actually happening.

I wouldnt want to predict what event or error would trigger this either, there are plenty to choose from. It could be energy, it could be the economy, it could even still be Covid/the NHS under certain scenarios if she tries to resist stuff that the broader establishment would still deem necessary at the time if certainly gloomy winter wave scenarios/combinations of covid and flu came to fruition in a rather intense manner.


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I think you are right in the sense that a space has opened up for someone/something like starmer, by virtue of being 'the other party' and also not scaring the horses - not even knowing how to scare the horses.  I suspect his delivery and performance has/will improve also.  He's been like a deer in the headlights the last few months, but he certainly can get better, basically, getting back to being forensic kieth.  A bit of confidence won't exactly work wonders, but could get him to the point where he's able to mount an effective attack.



Yeah the 'safe pair of hands' and 'not ideological' cards could work for him under these conditions, against such a deranged opponent who is so willing to go so far out on an exposed limb as Truss is.

Keir calm and carry on is not a prospect I can get excited about, but people might prefer it to Truss's not so subtle blend of excitement and excrement.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 7, 2022)

elbows said:


> There will probably be more dramatic events and unforced errors that offer further opportunities for the tories to ditch her. But I wouldnt want to have to try to predict them, or exactly what mechanism they will use to get rid of her, or the timing, far in advance of it actually happening.
> 
> I wouldnt want to predict what event or error would trigger this either, there are plenty to choose from. It could be energy, it could be the economy, it could even still be Covid/the NHS under certain scenarios if she tries to resist stuff that the broader establishment would still deem necessary at the time if certainly gloomy winter wave scenarios/combinations of covid and flu came to fruition in a rather intense manner.


I suppose I'm gnawing away at the frayed link between policy failure/crises and the tory party actually motivating itself to bin truss off.  They must just be too traumatised to do the necessary, which means things might just play out for another 2 years.


----------



## contadino (Oct 7, 2022)

agricola said:


> I don't think he is - this collapse in the government is almost entirely self-inflicted, they aren't being routed because Sir Kier has forensically pulled all the rugs out from under them.   If (when) she is binned off and replaced by Sunak I think the Tory polling goes up by a minimum of 10% overnight.


I think you're right, but Sunak isn't the only contender or even the most popular one amongst party members. They'd have Johnson back in a flash, and he knows it. I don't know what effect it'd have on polling but he'd poll better than Truss.


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I suppose I'm gnawing away at the frayed link between policy failure/crises and the tory party actually motivating itself to bin truss off.  They must just be too traumatised to do the necessary, which means things might just play out for another 2 years.



I cant bring myself to think of the entire 2 years as a single lump, I think I'll break it down into 6 month chunks and only consider one of those at a time. Im not sure I really believe in the concept of the party being taumatised, so I'll focus on other considerations:

Dont rush to get rid of her in the first 6 months. Theres a bunch of bad events that could happen in the next 6 months, let her own those, and watch to see whether she can actually manage to dodge some bullets or whether she treads on a mine. If she treads on a mine then it will be easier to get rid of her, and the next leader wont be tainted by those events. Can also use that period to further test how weak she is, how easy it will be for MPs to get her to back down from certain specific extreme policies.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)

Couple of stories about tory MPs and Police Commissioners saying cannabis should be class A "just as harmful as cocaine and crack"  I wonder if she'll try to slip that through.


----------



## JimW (Oct 7, 2022)

Surely we need to look at how the table stands ten games into the season before thinking about sacking the manager. Even if she is playing a ballboy up front and instructing the players to only shoot at our own goal.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 7, 2022)

If the plot to install Sunak before the election succeeds:


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Couple of stories about tory MPs and Police Commissioners saying cannabis should be class A "just as harmful as cocaine and crack"  I wonder if she'll try to slip that through.



For now I'm assuming that was just the usual conference fringe shit designed to energise a portion of their base, not something that will actually go anywhere.

And enforcement based on such a rule change would compete with limited police resources that the government seem keener to claim will be redirected towards actually taking burglaries seriously.

Besides, the enemies of home grown are surely a part of the anti-growth coalition that Truss has declared war on


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2022)

JimW said:


> Surely we need to look at how the table stands ten games into the season before thinking about sacking the manager. Even if she is playing a ballboy up front and instructing the players to only shoot at our own goal.


What should be 11 v 11 turns into one team playing against itself as the manager urges the spectators to invade the pitch


----------



## quiet guy (Oct 7, 2022)

elbows said:


> For now I'm assuming that was just the usual conference fringe shit designed to energise a portion of their base, not something that will actually go anywhere.
> 
> And enforcement based on such a rule change would compete with limited police resources that the government seem keener to claim will be redirected towards actually taking burglaries seriously.
> 
> Besides, the enemies of home grown are surely a part of the anti-growth coalition that Truss has declared war on


Don't bet on it with Cruella Braverman


----------



## emanymton (Oct 7, 2022)

Ministers back free train travel for military to remembrance services after outcry
					

Exclusive: former veterans minister Johnny Mercer and others had condemned plans to scrap free travel




					www.theguardian.com
				




OK they are actively trying to fuck off their own core supporters and loose the next election I'm sure of it now.

I wonder how long before they u-turn on this?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 7, 2022)




----------



## Cerv (Oct 8, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Ministers back free train travel for military to remembrance services after outcry
> 
> 
> Exclusive: former veterans minister Johnny Mercer and others had condemned plans to scrap free travel
> ...



Only took about 2 hours for a uturn? Impressive. 
Article updated at 23.58 now says 


> The government has vowed to guarantee free rail travel for military personnel to attend remembrance services this year after facing criticism over moves to scrap the offer.
> 
> Proposed plans to stop the free train travel after the government decided the cost would be “too great” had sparked an outcry and calls for a U-turn from the former veterans minister Johnny Mercer and others.


----------



## elbows (Oct 8, 2022)

Missing from my 'break it down into 6 month chunks' thing earlier was some of the action that might be seen in terms of her falling out with cabinet colleagues who are supposed to be her close allies. Some of those could easily end up counting as her treading on a mine if she insists on operating in cloud cuckoo land and really pisses them off. For example one newspaper is making a big deal about her blocking the energy saving advice to households, with emphasis on how much of a row she has had with Rees-Mogg about this.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 8, 2022)

Don't think the latest from cassette boy has been posted yet?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 8, 2022)

That.Is.A.Bounce


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 8, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I think that would be the outcome if they found a way to get sunak in.  Trouble is, given that she didn't resign last week after she killed the markets, I don't see how that happens now.



That's the worst fear for Labour. The one saving grace that would block it...is Boris. Would he step aside for Rishi? Probably not as he clearly thinks he'll be back in when this all blows over, and Truss is playing right in to his hands, but a Sunak term could go on for years.

Another interesting insight I'll repeat here off the News Agent Podcast...These guys were doing focus groups ("What do you thnk of leaders, and why" etc), and they were really surprised at how universal the antipathy to Starmer is. They don't trust him. Not just the sentiment in 1 or 2 groups but lots of them. He has a real problem. And the poll swings really are an ABC vote on steroids.

(I don't mind him as much as most, so I think much of this is successful RW media framing - his biggest crime for me is just being a bit wet and uninspiring, but anyways...)


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 8, 2022)

If it walks like a LibDem anti monarchist sleeper agent, talks like a LibDem anti monarchist sleeper agent...

...Those who want to reverse Brexit must have their hopes right up


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 8, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> That's the worst fear for Labour. The one saving grace that would block it...is Boris. Would he step aside for Rishi? Probably not as he clearly thinks he'll be back in when this all blows over, and Truss is playing right in to his hands, but a Sunak term could go on for years.
> 
> Another interesting insight I'll repeat here off the News Agent Podcast...These guys were doing focus groups ("What do you thnk of leaders, and why" etc), and they were really surprised at how universal the antipathy to Starmer is. They don't trust him. Not just the sentiment in 1 or 2 groups but lots of them. He has a real problem. And the poll swings really are an ABC vote on steroids.
> 
> (I don't mind him as much as most, so I think much of this is successful RW media framing - his biggest crime for me is just being a bit wet and uninspiring, but anyways...)


He is pretty chilled with racism, misogyny and bullying in the party so there is also that.


----------



## stavros (Oct 8, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Don't think the latest from cassette boy has been posted yet?



"Bring da Fuck-ups"
"Can They All Be So Simple?"
"Protect Ya Next Paycheque"


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 8, 2022)

Gammon will be exploding across the UK. 








						No 10 sidelines Suella Braverman in bid to relax immigration rules
					

Exclusive: Business leaders told to ignore Home Office and lobby other ministers in their efforts to build case for change




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 8, 2022)

If next week goes badly in Parliament I can see Truss calling an Election soon because she clearly cant control her MPs or her cabinet


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 8, 2022)

I can't see that happening unless there's a (parliamentary) vote of no confidence

And can't see that many tory MP's having much enthusiasm for a general election any time soon

Does she have the power to call a general election when she likes?  If so, could see her threatening that if the MPs get close to a (party) vote of no confidence as a 'fuck it, i'm going to take as many of you as possible with me' thing...


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 8, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I can't see that happening unless there's a (parliamentary) vote of no confidence
> 
> And can't see that many tory MP's having much enthusiasm for a general election any time soon
> 
> Does she have the power to call a general election when she likes?  If so, could see her threatening that if the MPs get close to a (party) vote of no confidence as a 'fuck it, i'm going to take as many of you as possible with me' thing...


The fix term Parliament act has been repealed so yes she can call an Election any time she wants


----------



## teqniq (Oct 8, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Gammon will be exploding across the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Full article here:



			archive.ph


----------



## wow (Oct 9, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Are you in the cabinet?


No. 

Truss has a simple decision to make.

Gove or Sunak.


----------



## andysays (Oct 9, 2022)

Looks like they're circling the wagons post conference

Cabinet ministers urge Tory MPs to unite behind Liz Truss​


> Four cabinet ministers have urged fellow Conservatives to get behind Prime Minister Liz Truss, after a week of open disagreement within the party. They warn the party must unite or it risks ending up in opposition. Home Secretary Suella Braverman and Commons Leader Penny Mordaunt are among those to have written opinion pieces in Sunday's newspapers.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 9, 2022)

andysays said:


> Looks like they're circling the wagons post conference
> 
> Cabinet ministers urge Tory MPs to unite behind Liz Truss​



A clear sign of desperation.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 9, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> If next week goes badly in Parliament I can see Truss calling an Election soon because she clearly cant control her MPs or her cabinet


Sorry but this is twaddle. Why do people have these mad ideas about parties calling elections. I know the last two GEs have been early but those are the exceptions not the rule. And they were called early because the government thought it was well placed

If I was forced to bet now I'd bet against a Conservative government after the next GE, but it is harder for the polls to be worse than at present (though I suspect if any GE was called there'd be a reasonably sharp move back to the Tories). But there is still two years to go - different stories will come and go, Labour may make a fuck up, some black swan event may occur - I would be surprised if there was not some move back to the Tories.

EDIT: Also there is the boundary review to go through next year, which could help the Tories - they get a number of notional gains


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 9, 2022)

So for all the fanfare about points based immigration systems are we to understand that this is now anti growth and in need of dilution by an expansion of visas?


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 9, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> At some point ill be putting 50 quid on a tory win next GE, ill look at the odds tomorrow and might do it then.
> 
> Hm just had a look paddy power will only let me put 33 quid on it online and at 3/1


Just had another look, odds now 4/1 but they'll only allow a 25 quid bet🤣
I still think the Tories will get back in


----------



## elbows (Oct 9, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Sorry but this is twaddle. Why do people have these mad ideas about parties calling elections. I know the last two GEs have been early but those are the exceptions not the rule. And they were called early because the government thought it was well placed



I agree that I cant see how it makes any sense for Truss to call an early election. Unless she has a massive change of fortunes, its more likely that such a thing would only be mentioned in terms of it being used as a desperate threat to trigger an election unless the party falls into line behind her, and if that threat came from the Truss camp it would likely be seen as a bluff. If it was part of the thinking of those tories seeking to remove her, it would be along the lines of them trying to find a mechanism for her removal that was able to bypass this threat rather than trigger it.

More broadly and with no regard to the current Truss context, I dont know as I fully agree with you about early elections being the exception rather than the rule. There were a bunch of elections in the last century that history regards as being 'snap elections', though nowhere near enough to count as the majority of them, thats true. But if I include elections held after 4 years rather than 5, quite a few more show up - Thatcher and Blair both indulged in these didnt they?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 9, 2022)

elbows said:


> But if I include elections held after 4 years rather than 5, quite a few more show up - Thatcher and Blair both indulged in these didnt they



Going after 4 years seems to be better for the incumbent government.  There is possibly an advantage in calling an election when things seem to be going reasonably well, rather than risking being caught out by an unexpected shitstorm when there's no option to delay an election.

Sitting out the full 5 years can be spun (by whichever party is then in opposition) as being 'clinging to office' / 'afraid of calling an election'.

Quite a few elections since 1945 have been called after 4 years - 1955, 1959, 1970, 1974, 1983, 1987, 2001, 2005.  

Of these, only 1970 and 1974 were lost by the previous government.  

Elections after 5 years were held in 1964, 1979, 1992, 1997, 2010 and 2015.  

Of these, only 1992 and 2015 were won by the previous government, the 1992 result came as something of a surprise to many, 2015 was after the fixed term parliament act and again many of the polls (up to and including the exit polls) had predicted at least another hung parliament.


----------



## elbows (Oct 9, 2022)

The fixed term parliament act still makes me laugh about how blatantly it was brought in just to deal with the particular circumstances of the moment, eg to stop endless speculation about the coalition collapsing etc. And yet it was presented with a straight face as the way things would be done from then on. Its demise once circumstances changed was entirely unsurprising.


----------



## story (Oct 9, 2022)

Cerv said:


> Only took about 2 hours for a uturn? Impressive.
> Article updated at 23.58 now says





Calamity1971 said:


> Gammon will be exploding across the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So at this point it looks like the best way to get policy through is to make an announcement to the contrary.



It’s like someone told her to “go swivel“ and she’s taken it as a directive.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2022)

I think she's still a LibDem, and decided to become a fifth columnist to have a go at destroying the tory party. Go Liz


----------



## Supine (Oct 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I think she's still a LibDem, and decided to become a fifth columnist to have a go at destroying the tory party. Go Liz



Tim Farron has said the same


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Going after 4 years seems to be better for the incumbent government.  There is possibly an advantage in calling an election when things seem to be going reasonably well, rather than risking being caught out by an unexpected shitstorm when there's no option to delay an election.
> 
> Sitting out the full 5 years can be spun (by whichever party is then in opposition) as being 'clinging to office' / 'afraid of calling an election'.
> 
> ...


Also 1950 was a five-year term (well, 4 and a half), won by the previous govt.

If you include all elections since 1945, you have six parliaments going to five years and 12 being cut short early, four of them cut short really early.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2022)

Not many would have had a near 80 majority though.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Not many would have had a near 80 majority though.


True. Of the four parliaments cut very short (2 years or less), two involved minority govts and the biggest majority was Cameron's 15. 

The lesson there is that it's fair enough to call an election with a minority govt - the two times it's happened, it's led to the incumbent winning a majority - but it is foolish to call an early election if you have a majority already - the two times that has happened, the majorities have disappeared. 

My guess is that Truss will cling on right to the end. Don't see how she can call an election now as she's bound to lose it. But if the tories decide to get rid of Truss, I think they'll find it very hard to resist calls for an early election.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2022)

And whether any tories will start voting with their conscience (hahaha) against some of the more batshit policies in the face of threats of expulsion from the party, loss of cushy Committee places and gongs.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> And whether any tories will start voting with their conscience (hahaha) against some of the more batshit policies in the face of threats of expulsion from the party, loss of cushy Committee places and gongs.


Yeah that's where the majority comes in. It's a big one in that respect. It would require 40-odd tories to rebel. That's a lot. If I were a betting person, I'd be betting on Truss clinging on and a 2024 election.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 9, 2022)

Just hoping for a Red Wall Bloc even more scared of their jobs than they are of Truss.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 9, 2022)

How rational and calculating a person is Liz Truss, and her cabinet mates? If they can manufacture a crisis so easily and so quickly in such a short time, what else are they capable of? Until we have more experience of the new government's policies and intentions, and how events might unfold, there's little point speculating. In 6 months time it'll be another matter.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2022)

Well we live in remarkable times, but since 1945 at least, nobody has ever called an early election without thinking they have a good chance of winning it.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 9, 2022)

Even 'apolitical' Stephen Fry is getting a kick in:


----------



## stavros (Oct 9, 2022)

Don't give us too much credit: have you seen interest rates?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 9, 2022)

stavros said:


> Don't give us too much credit: have you seen interest rates?


Well I just seen that the pound is down 9% against the dollar atm


----------



## agricola (Oct 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Not many would have had a near 80 majority though.



TBF that "near 80 majority" may be nothing like that in reality -  yes, they are Tories but the amount of support she thinks she has probably explains the rapid u-turns over various issues.  Then there is her internal opposition having the helpful precedent of what Baker and the ERG did (ie: have a small number of people get a disproportionate amount of influence because they could block anything they didn't like).  

May bottled out of a direct confrontation with such types over her Brexit deal (where she should have told them it was her deal or no Brexit, not her deal or no deal), but I think Truss is much more likely to gesture herself into a confrontation with them via an early GE (when she can at least control who stands, as Johnson did in 2019).   Yes, they'll all get wiped out but provided her side remain in control of the party they will probably accept that - they'll be able to come up with all sorts of nonsense and will (sadly inevitably) bounce back within a few years.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 9, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> At some point ill be putting 50 quid on a tory win next GE, ill look at the odds tomorrow and might do it then.
> 
> Hm just had a look paddy power will only let me put 33 quid on it online and at 3/1



I’m amazed that they won’t take any amount of money you want to donate to the bookies. I agree with those who believe that the polls will narrow at some point. But the Tories are done. They are internally divided and this will bubble to the surface regularly. They have abandoned governing and reoriented as a sect talking to - and acting for - a very narrow section of the electorate. They have declined into a nostalgia act committed to re-enacting the 1980’s and fighting battles that capital does not require it to.

They have elected a leader who is dead in the water already. Scotland, Wales, the ‘red wall’ and the cities and student areas are gone, the libs will challenge in the south west. The media and representatives of capital have increasingly become vocal in their view that it’s time for change. 

I’ll take a £50 bet with you that the Tories do not win the next GE, will not be the largest party and will not win the popular vote. Winner donates to a trade union hardship fund of their choice?


----------



## ska invita (Oct 9, 2022)

well she wanted to do the full thatcher tribute act...


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 9, 2022)

Can I bring you attention to the* Friedaweed union of hardship funds* which you can acquire the sort code and account number for once you have given me your paypal account details...


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 9, 2022)

Guardian is reporting she's on the verge of climbing down over real-terms benefits cuts. Potentially two big u-turns in as many weeks, both over things Tories traditionally approve of. This really has the feel of late-period Major or Brown era now - yes, they may claw their way back from the worst of it over two years, but it still feels terminal.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 9, 2022)

Ive never really understood the OMG A U-TURN thing...so what if someone does a uturn? Obviously personally glad the latest nightmare policy is backtracked on, but outside the westminster bubble who cares that a uturn has taken place?


----------



## agricola (Oct 9, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Guardian is reporting she's on the verge of climbing down over real-terms benefits cuts. Potentially two big u-turns in as many weeks, both over things Tories traditionally approve of. This really has the feel of late-period Major or Brown era now - yes, they may claw their way back from the worst of it over two years, but it still feels terminal.



The real-terms benefits cuts one especially, it just screams weakness.  

I mean this is first-year Tory stuff and in normal times they would absolutely and easily sell that to people - "_why should people on benefits see them keep place with inflation whilst people in work don't see their wages increase by that amount, keeping the two linked is fair to all, state benefits will still increase, the economy can't afford this whilst we are supporting families with their energy bills_ etc etc etc" - and if she had any actual support in the Parliamentary party they would do it.  

In fact not doing it will probably cause even more problems than fighting her opponents on this issue will do; she'll be "betraying Tory values" and pissing off her own supporters in order to fail to placate her enemies.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 9, 2022)




----------



## Ming (Oct 9, 2022)

story said:


> It’s germinated so fast, this stupid phrase. When the speechwriters come up with this shit do they immediately send out memos to all the news agencies and press editors?
> 
> How is it possible that this idiotic nonsense has become part of the lexicon so fast? Why was it adopted so readily?
> 
> ...


It reminds me of the deliberate limits of a haiku. Three words. I’m going with ’Make driving fast!’. Why? Don’t know.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 9, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Ive never really understood the OMG A U-TURN thing...so what if someone does a uturn? Obviously personally glad the latest nightmare policy is backtracked on, but outside the westminster bubble who cares that a uturn has taken place?


I've certainly often thought "surely we want people to be able/willing to change their minds?", but I think there's those kind of u-turns and there's "simply don't know what they're doing, making it up as they go along, judgement of a dead vole" u-turns.

One is deciding to take a different road, one is drunk at the wheel, veering wildly all over the road endangering others.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 9, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Ive never really understood the OMG A U-TURN thing...so what if someone does a uturn? Obviously personally glad the latest nightmare policy is backtracked on, but outside the westminster bubble who cares that a uturn has taken place?



Yes and no. Obviously the pragmatic response to this one, like the last one, is 'well, thank fuck - things would've been even worse if they'd gone ahead with it.' But I don't think governments are generally rewarded for not doing shit things they shouldn't have proposed in the first place either. And in a more nebulous way it just increases the general sense that this is a bunch of people who don't know what they're doing and, perhaps more importantly in electoral terms, don't have any kind of read on the country's mood.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 9, 2022)

If you believe in strong leadership, which I don't, and leaders with clear vision and all that sort of caper, then Truss has so far been calamitous. She pretends to be strong. She pretends to have the answers no-one else has. That's why she can't do u turns. To her, a u turn means she has got it wrong. If your only claim to being special is that you are always right, u turns just make you look weak.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 9, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I’m amazed that they won’t take any amount of money you want to donate to the bookies. I agree with those who believe that the polls will narrow at some point. But the Tories are done. They are internally divided and this will bubble to the surface regularly. *They have abandoned governing and reoriented as a sect talking to - and acting for - a very narrow section of the electorate. They have declined into a nostalgia act committed to re-enacting the 1980’s and fighting battles that capital does not require it to.*
> 
> They have elected a leader who is dead in the water already. Scotland, Wales, the ‘red wall’ and the cities and student areas are gone, the libs will challenge in the south west. The media and representatives of capital have increasingly become vocal in their view that it’s time for change.
> 
> I’ll take a £50 bet with you that the Tories do not win the next GE, will not be the largest party and will not win the popular vote. Winner donates to a trade union hardship fund of their choice?


I suppose johnson had the ultimate fair wind behind him - Labour's left and right had fought to a standstill, which was overland with a brexit 'policy' that was different shades of 'I know you lot voted for it, but we daren't actually have a policy'.  May was similarly stuck with a stoical failure to achieve anything at all on brexit.  But 'GET BREXIT DONE' was still the ultimate slogan, a communication about cutting through all the shite and not being like the rest of them.  All of that, _deeply _cynical as it was - and something that brought in a fucking vile PM - still had a political beauty.  Johnson had a real sense of the moment, which reached into former Labour heartlands.  It may well have been a one off and those working class voters might well have abstained in 2024 or gone back to Labour, even without partygate.  But still, the comparison with truss is pretty stark.  As you say, her ideological package is pretty much an answer to a problem that didn't exist and in circumstances very different to 1979.  It's as if some cathedral gets a new bonkers bishop who wants to reintroduce scourging amongst the congregation. The rest of the vicars and vergers go along with it, till they see that half the flock have gone to the Methodists down the road (although Gerald the choirmaster tried it and bled to death).


----------



## Wilf (Oct 9, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> If you believe in strong leadership, which I don't, and leaders with clear vision and all that sort of caper, then Truss has so far been calamitous. She pretends to be strong. She pretends to have the answers no-one else has. That's why she can't do u turns. To her, a u turn means she has got it wrong. If your only claim to being special is that you are always right, u turns just make you look weak.


Particularly as she claims she didn't let the cabinet in on the details of the budget.  I imagine there were a few barely concealed grins round the table when she had to report back on the u-turn(s).


----------



## ska invita (Oct 10, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Yes and no. Obviously the pragmatic response to this one, like the last one, is 'well, thank fuck - things would've been even worse if they'd gone ahead with it.' But I don't think governments are generally rewarded for not doing shit things they shouldn't have proposed in the first place either. And in a more nebulous way it just increases the general sense that this is a bunch of people who don't know what they're doing and, perhaps more importantly in electoral terms, don't have any kind of read on the country's mood.


looking at polling (which i havent actually done!)  and previous administrations i reckon theres no evidence of any correlation between the odd uturn and abandoning support for a PM. look at everything boris johnson did with consistent public support for example

for me the key political point here is it looks like Truss + Co are basically publicly appearing to get back in lane whilst still getting away with murder . Overegging the U Turn bit makes it look like a real change of course - it really isnt. Of the mini budget for example the vast majority of it is still on the table i gather


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> If you believe in strong leadership, which I don't, and leaders with clear vision and all that sort of caper, then Truss has so far been calamitous. She pretends to be strong. She pretends to have the answers no-one else has. That's why she can't do u turns. To her, a u turn means she has got it wrong. If your only claim to being special is that you are always right, u turns just make you look weak.


if you believe in leadership whether of individuals or of ideas she has been calamitous


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 10, 2022)

Tssk, why not all three?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 10, 2022)

Rich the tories accusing others of being divisive.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 10, 2022)

Liz Truss... charm offensive.  

Things that have more charm than Liz Truss - who wants to start a list?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 10, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> View attachment 346607
> 
> Liz Truss... charm offensive.
> 
> Things that have more charm than Liz Truss - who wants to start a list?



The only entity on earth with less charm than Truss I can think of is Suella Braverman.


----------



## andysays (Oct 10, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> View attachment 346607
> 
> Liz Truss... charm offensive.
> 
> Things that have more charm than Liz Truss - who wants to start a list?


Very little charm, but plenty of offensiveness TBH


----------



## izz (Oct 10, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Ive never really understood the OMG A U-TURN thing...so what if someone does a uturn? Obviously personally glad the latest nightmare policy is backtracked on, but outside the westminster bubble who cares that a uturn has taken place?


I think there's all kinds going on here, firstly that the original idea/diktat/policy/whatever has proved impossible or massively unpopular reveals the proposer to be fallible or out of touch which is a bad thing in the cutthroat world of politics. Also, some policies/whatever are needed regardless of how unpopular they are, keeping to some kind of budget say (Ha !) , but if the proposer submits to pressure to reverse a decision that makes them weak, so they're fucked either which way really. Not that I have any sympathy of course because I really fucking don't


----------



## prunus (Oct 10, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> View attachment 346607
> 
> Liz Truss... charm offensive.
> 
> Things that have more charm than Liz Truss - who wants to start a list?



I think they’ve added an errant ‘c’ in the front of that.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 10, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Gammon will be exploding across the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This really is spectacular incompetence from Truss. Appointing someone like Braverman to very publicly do what Braverman would do and then try to reverse it. But I think this issue does speak to a deep fissure on the right in general, and why the Tories are ultimately an unsatisfactory party for right wingers. Politically this is playing with fire.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 10, 2022)

Environmental destruction is part of Liz Truss’s plan | George Monbiot


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 10, 2022)

as an aside the BBC reporting about how local council are around the country setting up warm hubs to keep people alive this winter


ffs how is this shower still in power


grew up in ireland and we had a fire in the front room and no central heating

but here we are in 2022 where we have to provide shelter for older people and some working peoples  hubs to give them some heat
and the occasional meal

Jebus even Judge Dread Comics were not this dark


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> as an aside the BBC reporting about how local council are around the country setting up warm hubs to keep people alive this winter
> 
> 
> ffs how is this shower still in power
> ...


You should have been reading the dark judge dredd comics and not the shoddy rip-offs you got


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 10, 2022)

well aside from Judge death 

ok he could work for liz truss

in this dimension i think he is recee mogg


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 10, 2022)

stavros said:


> "Bring da Fuck-ups"
> "Can They All Be So Simple?"
> "Protect Ya Next Paycheque"


Conor Burns as Ol Dirty B’stard (though tbf that could be any number of them)


----------



## Cerv (Oct 10, 2022)

In the FT testing the limits of “setting the bar low” today


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 10, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> View attachment 346607
> 
> Liz Truss... charm offensive.
> 
> Things that have more charm than Liz Truss - who wants to start a list?


Dead snakes


----------



## two sheds (Oct 10, 2022)




----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 11, 2022)




----------



## Spandex (Oct 11, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Things that have more charm than Liz Truss - who wants to start a list?


A plastic carrier bag full of cold sick.

A dried human poo in a shop doorway.

A burnt out car in an out-of-town shopping centre car park.

A dead pigeon with no head.

An overflowing clinical waste bin in a care home.

A rotting used condom in a children's playground.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 11, 2022)

Spandex said:


> A plastic carrier bag full of cold sick.
> 
> A dried human poo in a shop doorway.
> 
> ...


That was just what I needed to start my day.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 11, 2022)

Cerv said:


> View attachment 346658
> In the FT testing the limits of “setting the bar low” today


Nah, he's making the point that Truss can (eventually) be removed whereas Xi keeps getting more powerful.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 11, 2022)

Astonishing figure; 11% of respondents describe Truss as "likeable"  

They walk amongst us.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 11, 2022)

Spandex said:


> A plastic carrier bag full of cold sick.
> 
> A dried human poo in a shop doorway.
> 
> ...


I'm getting a sense of what your Mastermind Specialist Subject Round will be.


----------



## stavros (Oct 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Conor Burns as Ol Dirty B’stard (though tbf that could be any number of them)


Likewise Twofaced Killah.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 11, 2022)




----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 12, 2022)

Spandex said:


> A plastic carrier bag full of cold sick.
> 
> A dried human poo in a shop doorway.
> 
> ...


Sung by choirs this Christmas to the tune from 'A Partridge in a Pear Tree'.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 12, 2022)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 12, 2022)

Lettuce? Who cares about the shelf-life of a lettuce? Cabbage is the vegetable they were looking for.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 12, 2022)

With a cabbage having a lot longer shelf life than a Truss ....


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 12, 2022)

I can't wait to see her blubbering at the lectern. Blaming the Anti Growth Coalition for her embarassing run as PM


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 12, 2022)

Absolute shambles of a PMQs for Truss. I give her days now. Starmer was crap but still absolutely wiped the floor with her.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 12, 2022)

Q: "Ms Truss, do you agree with Mr Rees-Mogg that the mini-budget had nothing to do with the markets tanking?

A: "People were facing spiralling energy bills.  This government has acted decisively to help these ordinary people facing spiralling energy bills."

Q: "OK, well that wasn't the question asked but moving on.  Can you offer a guarantee that there won't be huge cuts in public sector spending?"

A: "People were facing spiralling energy bills.  This government has acted decisively to help these ordinary people facing spiralling energy bills."

Q: "Are you OK?  Would you like a cup of tea and a nice sit down?"

A: "People were facing spiralling energy bills.  This government has acted decisively to help these ordinary people facing spiralling energy bills."


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 12, 2022)

PMQs is always a terrible way to measure the performance of the PM, but it's good to see its in line with the skills she's shown since coming power in....[checks google]....oh good, 36 days ago.


----------



## magneze (Oct 12, 2022)

She's now committed to not making public spending cuts. Which is great, but where's the money meant to be coming from for these tax cuts.

Chaos doesn't really cut it as a description. There seems to be wild flailing about with the PM, Chancellor and BoE all saying and doing different things day to day.

Never mind confidence of the markets, they don't even have confidence in each other.


----------



## killer b (Oct 12, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> I give her days now.


me too, about 800.


----------



## elbows (Oct 12, 2022)

The cheering when Truss started a response with 'I'm genuinely unclear' was something to behold, especially as they got to do it twice due to the cheering interrupting her first attempt.


----------



## magneze (Oct 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> me too, about 800.


That's the issue, it's difficult to get her out.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 12, 2022)

magneze said:


> *She's now committed to not making public spending cuts.* Which is great, but where's the money meant to be coming from for these tax cuts.
> 
> Chaos doesn't really cut it as a description. There seems to be wild flailing about with the PM, Chancellor and BoE all saying and doing different things day to day.
> 
> Never mind confidence of the markets, they don't even have confidence in each other.



Oh, come on, she's not committed to anything, whatever she says today could easily change within days or weeks.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 12, 2022)

I'm just watching PMQs. Is she actually mentally ill? And I don't want to offend people who are btw. But I'm serious. She seems totally crazy and at times incomprehensible. It must be baffling to face up to that for Starmer, who for all his faults is very smart and highly eloquent, given his background as a leading prosecutor. It's painful.


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## steveo87 (Oct 12, 2022)

Multiverse confirmed.


----------



## magneze (Oct 12, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, come on, she's not committed to anything, whatever she says today could easily change within days or weeks.


Or indeed, within minutes  

*"No 10 warns government faces 'difficult decisions' about public spending"*








						No 10 warns of ‘difficult decisions’ on public spending despite Truss’s vow to avoid cuts – UK politics live
					

Statement from No 10 comes straight after PM told MPs she was ‘absolutely’ committed to avoiding public spending cuts




					www.theguardian.com


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## Petcha (Oct 12, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Multiverse confirmed.




Basically any question, regardless of the question, she either went back to how she's saved us from a power bills crisis, or blaming everything on Vladimir Putin.

She's so hopelessly out of her depth. The face of Zawahi in the background (who founded YouGov which is currently putting her in the position of losing the election by the biggest landslide in living memory) was priceless. He could barely look.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Oct 12, 2022)

Here’s a question: if a new Corbyn/McDonnell Labour govt in 2019 had faced a hostile City/IMF/Media/OBR within days of taking office would you all have piled in too? Without any sympathy for Truss we should be very wary of taking at face value the views of the above parasites on a governments programme. Any governments….


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## belboid (Oct 12, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> Here’s a question: if a new Corbyn/McDonnell Labour govt in 2019 had faced a hostile City/IMF/Media/OBR within days of taking office would you all have piled in too? Without any sympathy for Truss we should be very wary of taking at face value the views of the above parasites on a governments programme. Any governments….


You think it some kinda deep state set up?

Looks more like mainstream tools of capitalism telling a fellow capitalist to get her shit together.  Very different to explicitly undermining a (slightly) radical challenge to the system.


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## Larry O'Hara (Oct 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> You think it some kinda deep state set up?
> 
> Looks more like mainstream tools of capitalism telling a fellow capitalist to get her shit together.  Very different to explicitly undermining a (slightly) radical challenge to the system.


I didnt make any reference to a deep state set up which is nonsense: and they are still parasites


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## billy_bob (Oct 12, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I'm just watching PMQs. Is she actually mentally ill? And I don't want to offend people who are btw. But I'm serious. She seems totally crazy and at times incomprehensible. It must be baffling to face up to that for Starmer, who for all his faults is very smart and highly eloquent, given his background as a leading prosecutor. It's painful.



Well, he's had enough practice on the gibbering adolescent baboon who's been running the show for the last three years. I think he's probably fairly used to having shite flung at him over the despatch box.


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## Louis MacNeice (Oct 12, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> Here’s a question: if a new Corbyn/McDonnell Labour govt in 2019 had faced a hostile City/IMF/Media/OBR within days of taking office would you all have piled in too? Without any sympathy for Truss we should be very wary of taking at face value the views of the above parasites on a governments programme. Any governments….


There are such different forces at play in your two scenarios (one imagined and one all too real), that you are comparing apples with lamp posts.

A Corbyn/McDonnell Labour govt in 2019 would have had a very hard won democratic mandate behind it (and all the millions of people that requires). Truss has 80,000 and falling disgruntled Conservative Party members.

None of which would guarantee the imagined social democratic victors of 2019, victory against the City/IMF/Media/OBR today; but they would be able to say to their supporters and detractors alike, look we've done it once already (at least in relation to the media, the City and possibly the IMF if not the OBR) in getting into government.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


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## bluescreen (Oct 12, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> Here’s a question: if a new Corbyn/McDonnell Labour govt in 2019 had faced a hostile City/IMF/Media/OBR within days of taking office would you all have piled in too? Without any sympathy for Truss we should be very wary of taking at face value the views of the above parasites on a governments programme. Any governments….


It wouldn't have happened. McDonnell made sure to be speaking to the City &c so even if they didn't agree with what he was planning they knew what to expect and would have been able to prepare. Kwarteng blindsided everyone.


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## two sheds (Oct 12, 2022)

everyone except the hedge funds?


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## killer b (Oct 12, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> It wouldn't have happened. McDonnell made sure to be speaking to the City &c so even if they didn't agree with what he was planning they knew what to expect and would have been able to prepare. Kwarteng blindsided everyone.


I'm sure McDonnell made his best efforts to reassure the city etc, but that doesn't mean something like this wouldn't have happened


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## bluescreen (Oct 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> I'm sure McDonnell made his best efforts to reassure the city etc, but that doesn't mean something like this wouldn't have happened


There would have been a dip. It would never have been as bad as this - the unpreparedness turbocharged the lack of confidence. Plus Kwarteng still hasn't indicated where the money is coming from so there is still huge lack of confidence that he even knows what he's doing.


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## Wilf (Oct 12, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> Here’s a question: if a new Corbyn/McDonnell Labour govt in 2019 had faced a hostile City/IMF/Media/OBR within days of taking office would you all have piled in too? Without any sympathy for Truss we should be very wary of taking at face value the views of the above parasites on a governments programme. Any governments….


well, yeah, kind of.  I'm still happy to my enemies fighting amongst themselves - and that doesn't mean they become my friends.


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## steveo87 (Oct 12, 2022)

Good news: Liz Truss is useless. 


Bad news: Starmer.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> I'm sure McDonnell made his best efforts to reassure the city etc, but that doesn't mean something like this wouldn't have happened


The economic reforms of social democratic governments are generally geared towards growth, though. Pretty explicitly so normally. 

Truss says what she's doing is geared towards growth, but it's not. It's dependent upon growth, which is entirely different.


----------



## killer b (Oct 12, 2022)

It's a nice idea, but I find it hard to believe that an establishment that took such a scorched earth approach to Corbyn's electoral threat would have started to play nice once he was in power.


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## billy_bob (Oct 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's a nice idea, but I find it hard to believe that an establishment that took such a scorched earth approach to Corbyn's electoral threat would have started to play nice once he was in power.



I know what you mean, but the financial markets bit of the establishment hates uncertainty more than anything, doesn't it? I'm not suggesting they'd have been _pleased _with McDonnell, but I wonder if a known change of ideology/direction might be less destabilising than obvious idiocy and incompetence of the sort that's happening now.


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## agricola (Oct 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's a nice idea, but I find it hard to believe that an establishment that took such a scorched earth approach to Corbyn's electoral threat would have started to play nice once he was in power.



The establishment would absolutely have gone after him, but whether the City would have is another thing.  IMHO they'd probably have gone along with it because of the money HMG would be spending and the fact that his government would start generating assets again (which could subsequently be privatized under a different regime).


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## belboid (Oct 12, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> I didnt make any reference to a deep state set up which is nonsense: and they are still parasites


Thanks for the amazing insight.  Do you have an actual point?


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Oct 12, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> There are such different forces at play in your two scenarios (one imagined and one all too real), that you are comparing apples with lamp posts.
> 
> A Corbyn/McDonnell Labour govt in 2019 would have had a very hard won democratic mandate behind it (and all the millions of people that requires). Truss has 80,000 and falling disgruntled Conservative Party members.
> 
> ...


Democratic mandate: Allende had one too…


----------



## Knotted (Oct 12, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I suppose johnson had the ultimate fair wind behind him - Labour's left and right had fought to a standstill, which was overland with a brexit 'policy' that was different shades of 'I know you lot voted for it, but we daren't actually have a policy'.  May was similarly stuck with a stoical failure to achieve anything at all on brexit.  But 'GET BREXIT DONE' was still the ultimate slogan, a communication about cutting through all the shite and not being like the rest of them.  All of that, _deeply _cynical as it was - and something that brought in a fucking vile PM - still had a political beauty.  Johnson had a real sense of the moment, which reached into former Labour heartlands.  It may well have been a one off and those working class voters might well have abstained in 2024 or gone back to Labour, even without partygate.  But still, the comparison with truss is pretty stark.  As you say, her ideological package is pretty much an answer to a problem that didn't exist and in circumstances very different to 1979.  It's as if some cathedral gets a new bonkers bishop who wants to reintroduce scourging amongst the congregation. The rest of the vicars and vergers go along with it, till they see that half the flock have gone to the Methodists down the road (although Gerald the choirmaster tried it and bled to death).



I agree with this but there is a small but possibly significant factor that this misses. Both May and Johnson distanced themselves from hardline neo-liberal ideology. May abortively tried to resurrect a one nation Toryism, Johnson _talked_ about leveling up and applied a pork barrel "vote for us for investment" stance. Combined with Brexit policy the Tories have been making in roads into working class territory and renewed their flagging portion of the vote. Not only has Truss reversed this strategy and combined this reversal with a disastrous economic policy that's alienated more middle class voters as well, but the likely Tory alternative leaders are also hardline ideologues albeit perhaps not quite as stupid as Truss.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Oct 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> Thanks for the amazing insight.  Do you have an actual point?


Yes: ignorant aggressive posts like yours are tedious


----------



## killer b (Oct 12, 2022)

I mean whatever it's all fantasy politics anyway, but it seems an odd thing to be so confident about. Personally I think anyone with an interest in a politics that goes beyond the narrow confines of the current orthodoxy should be watching what's going on atm and working out how you'd actually manage this kind of market discipline, even if this is a particularly glaring example of how not to. I think a few meetings where you talk nice to fund managers is probably not really enough tbh


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 12, 2022)

agricola said:


> The establishment would absolutely have gone after him, but whether the City would have is another thing.  IMHO they'd probably have gone along with it because of the money HMG would be spending and the fact that his government would start generating assets again (which could subsequently be privatized under a different regime).


I don't doubt that there are significant numbers of city types who'd actively approve it if the UK government announced a programme of targeted public investment covered by relatively modest tax rises. That's an actual growth plan.

It's the kind of thing the social democratic govt of Portugal has been trying to do recently. The markets haven't exploded on them for it.


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## Louis MacNeice (Oct 12, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> Democratic mandate: Allende had one too…


Which is why I said no guaranteed win. It also reasserts my point about the difference in the two scenarios...so thanks for that.

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 12, 2022)

They were part of the coalition that hobbled Corbyn before he got close, whether they'd have been more or less angry if he'd succeeded in winning than they are with the current lot is a bit of a moot point. They're busily trying to get their way now, and would have done (and did) previously. The rest is speculation on the detail.


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## Karl Masks (Oct 12, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Absolute shambles of a PMQs for Truss. I give her days now. Starmer was crap but still absolutely wiped the floor with her.


it was like watching a tory child regurgitate talking points from the Ladybird Book of Free Markets


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 12, 2022)




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## brogdale (Oct 12, 2022)

Also posted in Polling thread...quite an achievement from La Truss...


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## Raheem (Oct 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Also posted in Polling thread...quite an achievement from La Truss...



Changes vs last election, so not entirely down to Truss, though.


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## redsquirrel (Oct 12, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> It wouldn't have happened. McDonnell made sure to be speaking to the City &c so even if they didn't agree with what he was planning they knew what to expect and would have been able to prepare. Kwarteng blindsided everyone.


This is hilariously naive. 
The idea that any strong social democratic, let alone socialist, programme would not have to be made in opposition to the Bank of England, IMF, experts etc is both absurd and deeply ahistorical.  

See Greece, see Italy (the IMF, FT, EU all supporting the technocratic unelected Draghi), see South America. Capital may not be in favour of Truss's plans, indeed it may even favour renewed investment but there is a big difference between investment for capital and transferring wealth and power to labour.


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## maomao (Oct 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Also posted in Polling thread...quite an achievement from La Truss...



Is there a solid definition of blue wall?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Changes vs last election, so not entirely down to Truss, though.


Good point, well made.

That said, the lass done well...


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2022)

maomao said:


> Is there a solid definition of blue wall?


Not that I know of but, FWIW, here's the Redfield & Wilton attempt at defining a 'Blue-wall' seat:


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2022)

Interesting observation from Coates; when a PM with a majority of 70 (ish?) sees a 3 line whip fail to wrangle 120 MPs....hmmm


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 12, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I'm just watching PMQs. Is she actually mentally ill? And I don't want to offend people who are btw. But I'm serious. She seems totally crazy and at times incomprehensible. It must be baffling to face up to that for Starmer, who for all his faults is very smart and highly eloquent, given his background as a leading prosecutor. It's painful.


She's just been elevated to a position she cannot cope with


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I'm just watching PMQs. Is she actually mentally ill? And I don't want to offend people who are btw. But I'm serious. She seems totally crazy and at times incomprehensible. It must be baffling to face up to that for Starmer, who for all his faults is very smart and highly eloquent, given his background as a leading prosecutor. It's painful.


the other day you were on about dr coffey drinking and smoking, and deriding her for that. now you're suggesting that - on the basis of your extensive experience, no doubt - that liz truss is mentally ill. you're very big on tory health. perhaps if you imagine the hapless truss less as a mentally ill woman and more as someone who realises too late that they've achieved a position for which they have neither talent nor capacity, with all the stress and unhappiness for them that might entail, you might be nearer the mark. i don't know what it is with you and having a pop at tories for what you think about their health, when you might better attack their competence and indeed their politics. perhaps you'll tell me.


----------



## maomao (Oct 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Interesting observation from Coates; when a PM with a majority of 70 (ish?) sees a 3 line whip fail to wrangle 120 MPs....hmmm



Is it not just the case that it wasn't controversial at all and they knew it would pass easily?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2022)

maomao said:


> Is it not just the case that it wasn't controversial at all and they knew it would pass easily?


Maybe, but maybe also some sort of metric of the challenge that she'll face?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> She's just been elevated to a position she cannot cope with


tbh i cannot imagine a position with which she could cope


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Maybe, but maybe also some sort of metric of the challenge that she'll face?


if this was a three line whip you have to wonder about the use of the measure under her leadership, if as maomao says this was so uncontroversial and expected to pass easily. i don't follow when three line whips are issued, but i thought they were for things which were really important to the government and for which they required the support of all their mps


----------



## Supine (Oct 12, 2022)

Sounds like the 1922 went well for her


----------



## Cerv (Oct 12, 2022)

you can see from that chart that Labour were voting in favour of it too.
I really doubt the Tory whips were overly bothered about getting out the vote. no danger of it failing.


for anyone interested, it's 2nd reading on the Identity and Language (Northern Ireland) Bill
the DUP are the four votes against.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 12, 2022)

The whole thread from the 22 is worth reading. Open contempt displayed - laying into her, chatting while she was speaking...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 12, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Q: "Ms Truss, do you agree with Mr Rees-Mogg that the mini-budget had nothing to do with the markets tanking?
> 
> A: "People were facing spiralling energy bills.  This government has acted decisively to help these ordinary people facing spiralling energy bills."
> 
> ...



Is this real? I can't tell what's a piss take and what's real any more


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is this real? I can't tell what's a piss take and what's real any more


as i understand it the current administration is a live enactment of the thick of it, though i suppose it'd really be the thicker of it


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 12, 2022)

maomao said:


> Is there a solid definition of blue wall?



Worthing was considered to be blue wall, yet back in May, Labour took control of the borough council for the first time ever.


----------



## agricola (Oct 12, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> as i understand it the current administration is a live enactment of the thick of it, though i suppose it'd really be the thicker of it



If Liz Truss was sliced bread she'd be unsliced, such is her thickness.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 12, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> the other day you were on about dr coffey drinking and smoking, and deriding her for that. now you're suggesting that - on the basis of your extensive experience, no doubt - that liz truss is mentally ill. you're very big on tory health. perhaps if you imagine the hapless truss less as a mentally ill woman and more as someone who realises too late that they've achieved a position for which they have neither talent nor capacity, with all the stress and unhappiness for them that might entail, you might be nearer the mark. i don't know what it is with you and having a pop at tories for what you think about their health, when you might better attack their competence and indeed their politics. perhaps you'll tell me.



Well, yes. I do actually have personal experience, on a daily basis my friend. That's my job. They all know she's fucking nuts and can't wait to be rid of her. They all know she's going to lose them the next election by a landslide. Granted this is the Cameron/Osborne/Sunak side of the party, which is a completely separate party in reality but yes - it's accepted internally that 'we're fucked' in the words of my boss. (and I can assure you I'm not part of the 'we')

She did come across as unhinged today, sorry. 

Not sure what your point is here. I assume we both share the same goal, to get rid of the Tories, so we're in a conundrum. Let this idiot fuck up the country for two more years or let or her fuck the Tory party for two more years making them unelectable. Which is your preference? I think on reflection I'd prefer a competent leader at this terrifying moment but that could possibly mean the Tories getting back in. So. yes. We're fucked.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2022)

agricola said:


> If Liz Truss was sliced bread she'd be unsliced, such is her thickness.


I actually feel some degree of empathy with the individuals charged with attempting to explain to her the macro-economic chaos that she has caused.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 12, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't doubt that there are significant numbers of city types who'd actively approve it if the UK government announced a programme of targeted public investment covered by relatively modest tax rises. That's an actual growth plan.
> 
> It's the kind of thing the social democratic govt of Portugal has been trying to do recently. The markets haven't exploded on them for it.


The investment side had support.. Keynesian stimulus is actually what was wanted by big financial institutions at the time.
But renationalising utilities would not have gone down well, and I don't know what bankers would've done in response but I'm sure it wouldve sounded like squealing and looked like a graph going down somewhere


----------



## Petcha (Oct 12, 2022)

Sorry, in case I need to say once again, I don't actually work for the Tories but I had to take something during lockdown and so currently work for a company closely affiliated with them. And it has actually been fascinating to observe the shitshow from the inside as a bit of a politics geek. 

It totally is the thick of it. But there are incredibly smart people working in there, objectively. A lot of whom disagree wholeheartedly with what Truss is doing. Both economically and socially. She's nuts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well, yes. I do actually have personal experience, on a daily basis my friend. That's my job. They all know she's fucking nuts and can't wait to be rid of her. They all know she's going to lose them the next election by a landslide. Granted this is the Cameron/Osborne/Sunak side of the party, which is a completely separate party in reality but yes - it's accepted internally that 'we're fucked' in the words of my boss. (and I can assure you I'm not part of the 'we')
> 
> She did come across as unhinged today, sorry.
> 
> Not sure what your point is here. I assume we both share the same goal, to get rid of the Tories, so we're in a conundrum. Let this idiot fuck up the country for two more years or let or her fuck the Tory party for two more years making them unelectable. Which is your preference? I think on reflection I'd prefer a competent leader at this terrifying moment but that could possibly mean the Tories getting back in. So. yes. We're fucked.


if it's your day job then i'm really surprised you've decided that your best arguments against the tories are your health secretary drinks and smokes and your prime minister's mentally ill. unhinged. nuts. mental illness being such a broad range of things perhaps you could outline just what you think's wrong with her, as it's your area of expertise. 

anyway getting rid of the tories is such a paltry aim if the succeeding government is going to be shammer's labour party.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is this real? I can't tell what's a piss take and what's real any more


it's all a piss take


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Sorry, in case I need to say once again, I don't actually work for the Tories but I had to take something during lockdown and so currently work for a company closely affiliated with them. And it has actually been fascinating to observe the shitshow from the inside as a bit of a politics geek.
> 
> It totally is the thick of it. But there are incredibly smart people working in there, objectively. A lot of whom disagree wholeheartedly with what Truss is doing. Both economically and socially. She's nuts.


and unhinged, i hear


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 12, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is this real? I can't tell what's a piss take and what's real any more


It's a lightly paraphrased semi-transcript of PMQs.  Although the bit where Starmer asked if she wanted a cuppa was of course verbatim.


----------



## Spandex (Oct 12, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> It wouldn't have happened. McDonnell made sure to be speaking to the City &c so even if they didn't agree with what he was planning they knew what to expect and would have been able to prepare. Kwarteng blindsided everyone.


The Labour manifesto in 2019 was fully costed - perhaps relying on some optimistic economic forecasts, but not too concerning to the markets - until they promised to compensate the WASPI women, which would've cost another £58bn, blowing a hole in all their budget forecasts. If they'd gone ahead with a £58bn black hole in their budget then the markets would certainly have reacted badly. That policy undid all the work Macdonald had done to reassure the markets that Corbyn's Labour was not a threat to their investments. 

The markets only care about getting a return on their investments. They don't really care what governments do as long as their investments are safe. They get jumpy when left wing governments are elected as left wing governments _should_ be hurting their investments. Allende, for example, nationalised the copper mines without compensation - about as bad for investors as it could get - and the markets reacted punishingly to that.

Markets are usually reassured by right wing governments as they've traditionally been there to protect the market's investments, at whatever human cost. Truss, with a £60bn black hole in her budget, borrowing billions to pay for the energy price cap when UK borrowing is already high following Covid, relying on fantasy growth to be able to cover the cost when only about 3 people in the world think her trickle-down plan will work, has made the markets think their investments aren't as safe as they'd assumed and they reacted. If she and Kwarteng had announced plans to pay for the energy price cap and tax give away which would've worked financially, such as huge cuts to public spending - ending the state pension, funding the NHS through insurance - the markets wouldn't have batted an eyelid.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 12, 2022)

Its going well


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 12, 2022)




----------



## magneze (Oct 12, 2022)

Bring it on.


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## magneze (Oct 12, 2022)

.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 12, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>



Would Tory MPs really vote against their own party and cause an General election knowing  full they would face losing their seats and a potential wipeout of the party?


----------



## maomao (Oct 12, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Would Tory MPs really vote against their own party and cause an General election knowing  full they would face losing their seats and a potential wipeout of the party?


I'm sure they could dredge up half a dozen, they'd need forty or so.


----------



## killer b (Oct 12, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Would Tory MPs really vote against their own party and cause an General election knowing  full they would face losing their seats and a potential wipeout of the party?


Voting no confidence in your own government is a de facto resignation from the party I guess? It's just Pesto stirring though isn't it.


----------



## agricola (Oct 12, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Would Tory MPs really vote against their own party and cause an General election knowing  full they would face losing their seats and a potential wipeout of the party?



They wouldn't cause a General Election though - the no confidence is in her government, so if they call one and the government loses the Crown asks if someone else can form a government.  Given that they have a majority of nearly 80, they almost certainly could form a new government without needing an election immediately.   

Also "facing losing their seats and a potential wipeout of the party" isn't as much of a threat when that is what is going to happen if she remains in power.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 12, 2022)

I know it's all twatter and im not sure how credible this fella is, but fuck it, if true is funny at least.


----------



## Supine (Oct 12, 2022)

This is gold


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 12, 2022)

This would be far more enjoyable if she wasn’t currently navigating a potential nuclear conflict.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 12, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> I know it's all twatter and im not sure how credible this fella is, but fuck it, if true is funny at least.
> 
> 
> View attachment 346918



From delusion to devastation, and all points in between


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> Voting no confidence in your own government is a de facto resignation from the party I guess? It's just Pesto stirring though isn't it.


He can get quotes like this from MP's who are half-cut in the late afternoon/evening, but in the morning they are probably more circumspect


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 12, 2022)

OTOH, must be galling for the Libdems to still be trailing the Tories despite everything


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> He can get quotes like this from MP's who are half-cut in the late afternoon/evening, but in the morning they are probably more circumspect


Almost like he sniffs out the claret like a truffle pig and all to draw viewers to his shitty chat show


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 12, 2022)

We’ve entered another realm (watch the video in the first reply if you havent seen it)


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 12, 2022)

Still not grasped the curtsy.
Back again  🤣


----------



## a_chap (Oct 12, 2022)




----------



## teuchter (Oct 12, 2022)

What's all this about then?

Saw it linked elsewhere. Can't read it because I'm not a subscriber.









						Kwarteng’s mini-Budget will boost economic growth in Britain, admits IMF
					

Fund says UK expansion will be fastest in G7 this year – but inflation will be worse than other advanced countries




					www.telegraph.co.uk


----------



## Raheem (Oct 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> What's all this about then?
> 
> Saw it linked elsewhere. Can't read it because I'm not a subscriber.
> 
> ...


It's a highly spun alternate-reality take on the IMF's criticisms of the UK government yesterday, coupled with a misleading graphic.


----------



## belboid (Oct 12, 2022)

archive.ph
		


Amongst the interesting quotes:

“Strong momentum at the end of 2021 means UK economic growth will outpace the rest of the G7 this year. Tax cuts announced in the mini-Budget are expected to lift it even higher than the IMF's current forecast of 3.6pc”

[in reality, gdp shrank 0.4% this month]

“The IMF said its projections did not fully factor in measures announced in the mini-Budget,”

“
The UK is the only G7 economy which is still smaller than its pre-pandemic size. Analysts at Deutsche Bank do not expect it to recover until 2024.

“The IMF believes higher inflation and rising interest rates will push around 350,000 more people out of work, with the unemployment rate expected to rise to 4.8pc by the end of 2023, from 3.5pc today.”

Woohoo!


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 12, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> We’ve entered another realm (watch the video in the first reply if you havent seen it)



He’s had a few coffees to say the least - is KGM delivery always like that? Don’t remember him being so hyper on Newsround


----------



## Raheem (Oct 12, 2022)

> Tax cuts announced in the mini-Budget are expected to lift it even higher than the IMF's current forecast of 3.6pc



This is not actually what the report says. It says that GDP will fall by about 3 percentage points next year and that this fall might be slightly reduced by the tax cuts, but at the expense of a large increase in inflation. The 3.6 figure is a perviously published one for growth in 2022, so not in anyway a result of the mini-budget.

This seems to be a bit optimistic compared to what most economists think, btw.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 12, 2022)

Just listened to the latest Alistair Campbell (and Tory Stewart) podcast. He seems sure that a lot of tories know they are losing their seats at the next GE regardless of anything that can happen between now and then, and that they will do their damnedest to get rid of Dizzy Lizzy.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 13, 2022)




----------



## stdP (Oct 13, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Q: "Ms Truss, do you agree with Mr Rees-Mogg that the mini-budget had nothing to do with the markets tanking?
> 
> A: "People were facing spiralling energy bills.  This government has acted decisively to help these ordinary people facing spiralling energy bills."
> 
> ...



When I first read this, I thought you were paraphrasing in a truly exaggerated Zapp Brannigan fashion. Having just watched PMQs, I think you're being overly generous in your summation. Holy fuck, I've seen rabbits in headlights juggling floundering fish with more grace and skill than this. All the eloquence of a squabbling 8 year old throwing a tiny tantrum over a lollipop. Either unwilling or incapable to see anything past the front of her increasingly vacant face. A one-trick, one-legged pony.


----------



## Humberto (Oct 13, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> View attachment 346932


----------



## Humberto (Oct 13, 2022)

Truss is Tory punishment.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 13, 2022)

Max Hastings, who has written some sketchy far right shit over the years, wants to see the Tories put out of their misery. We’ve really crossed a line now.


----------



## Ming (Oct 13, 2022)

As I’ve always said. They’re not stupid. Quite the opposite actually (have you seen Kwarteng’s CV??). Just very clever psychopaths. 

Do you think the mini-budget (designed to starved public services) was an accident? No. They knew they’d drop the higher rate tax cap. It’s like any negotiation. You start of higher than expectations. And the nursing pay strike? A deliberate provocation to undermine the ‘heroes of the NHS’. To soften things up for it’s eventual privatization. It’s on paper. We know what their agenda is.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 13, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Would Tory MPs really vote against their own party and cause an General election knowing  full they would face losing their seats and a potential wipeout of the party?


No


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 13, 2022)

Sounds like she got a right kicking from the back-benchers during the 1922 meeting yesterday, not so much a honeymoon period, as a halloween period.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 13, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Would Tory MPs really vote against their own party and cause an General election knowing  full they would face losing their seats and a potential wipeout of the party?



No, it's a Twitter induced wank fantasy


----------



## kabbes (Oct 13, 2022)

The Tories had come to believe that they could elect any leader with impunity and it would make no difference either to their popularity or even to their effectiveness. After all, they had got through with May and then even _Johnson_ without unreasonable self-immolation. Who cares what everybody else thinks?  If about half our MPs plus some of our mental members want Truss, that’s fine and who cares if she can barely tie her shoelaces?  Well, now they’re learning why they should care. Sadly, we have to pay the price for this lesson in humility.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 13, 2022)

Christ, we have somehow reached the point where Rees-Mogg is the sensible one.









						Liz Truss on collision course with Jacob Rees-Mogg over solar power ban
					

PM wants to prevent panels on 58% of farmland but business secretary says renewables need to be boosted




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 13, 2022)

Is it possible that Trussia might lose its place within the G7?


----------



## Fuzzy (Oct 13, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> We’ve entered another realm (watch the video in the first reply if you havent seen it)



Hehe. her interview was hilarious and refreshing to see someone be so frank about their assessment.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 13, 2022)

Ming said:


> As I’ve always said. They’re not stupid. Quite the opposite actually (have you seen Kwarteng’s CV??). Just very clever psychopaths.
> 
> Do you think the mini-budget (designed to starved public services) was an accident? No. They knew they’d drop the higher rate tax cap. It’s like any negotiation. You start of higher than expectations. And the nursing pay strike? A deliberate provocation to undermine the ‘heroes of the NHS’. To soften things up for it’s eventual privatization. It’s on paper. We know what their agenda is.


This isn't 5D chess. 

It is the product of hubris.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## ska invita (Oct 13, 2022)

Spandex said:


> The Labour manifesto in 2019 was fully costed - perhaps relying on some optimistic economic forecasts, but not too concerning to the markets - until they promised to compensate the WASPI women, which would've cost another £58bn, blowing a hole in all their budget forecasts. If they'd gone ahead with a £58bn black hole in their budget then the markets would certainly have reacted badly. That policy undid all the work Macdonald had done to reassure the markets that Corbyn's Labour was not a threat to their investments.
> 
> The markets only care about getting a return on their investments. They don't really care what governments do as long as their investments are safe. They get jumpy when left wing governments are elected as left wing governments _should_ be hurting their investments. Allende, for example, nationalised the copper mines without compensation - about as bad for investors as it could get - and the markets reacted punishingly to that.
> 
> Markets are usually reassured by right wing governments as they've traditionally been there to protect the market's investments, at whatever human cost. Truss, with a £60bn black hole in her budget, borrowing billions to pay for the energy price cap when UK borrowing is already high following Covid, relying on fantasy growth to be able to cover the cost when only about 3 people in the world think her trickle-down plan will work, has made the markets think their investments aren't as safe as they'd assumed and they reacted. If she and Kwarteng had announced plans to pay for the energy price cap and tax give away which would've worked financially, such as huge cuts to public spending - ending the state pension, funding the NHS through insurance - the markets wouldn't have batted an eyelid.


What about renationalising all public utilities, even if costed?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2022)

Ming said:


> As I’ve always said. They’re not stupid. Quite the opposite actually (have you seen Kwarteng’s CV??). Just very clever psychopaths.
> 
> Do you think the mini-budget (designed to starved public services) was an accident? No. They knew they’d drop the higher rate tax cap. It’s like any negotiation. You start of higher than expectations. And the nursing pay strike? A deliberate provocation to undermine the ‘heroes of the NHS’. To soften things up for it’s eventual privatization. It’s on paper. We know what their agenda is.



Not sure Kwarteng is thinking further ahead than creating some planned market upheavals for his chums to make an easy profit from.

As for his CV, he was in finance IIRC. You don't need to be smart to do that. Hedge fund traders have been shown to perform less well than random number generators at picking investments.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 13, 2022)

stdP said:


> When I first read this, I thought you were paraphrasing in a truly exaggerated Zapp Brannigan fashion. Having just watched PMQs, I think you're being overly generous in your summation. Holy fuck, I've seen rabbits in headlights juggling floundering fish with more grace and skill than this. All the eloquence of a squabbling 8 year old throwing a tiny tantrum over a lollipop. Either unwilling or incapable to see anything past the front of her increasingly vacant face. A one-trick, one-legged pony.


I watched it on YouTube last night and I gave up after a few mins. She really did answer every question no matter what it was about with:-

"People were facing spiralling energy bills.  This government has acted decisively to help these ordinary people facing spiralling energy bills" or some variation thereof at least up until the point I stopped and watched something else instead, I really just couldn't finish it off.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 13, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Just listened to the latest Alistair Campbell (and Tory Stewart) podcast. He seems sure that a lot of tories know they are losing their seats at the next GE regardless of anything that can happen between now and then, and that they will do their damnedest to get rid of Dizzy Lizzy.


Campbell is a spin doctor and liar, its all he knows and only gets him air time from producers who want to inject 'passion' into a piece


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 13, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> We’ve entered another realm (watch the video in the first reply if you havent seen it)



And apparently Dr Hook isn't a qualified physician


----------



## Supine (Oct 13, 2022)




----------



## Spandex (Oct 13, 2022)

ska invita said:


> What about renationalising all public utilities, even if costed?


Markets are amoral, impersonal and only care about the performance of investments. If the prospects look good money flows in, if the prospects look bad money flows out.

Will the current investors get a 'fair' price for the public utilities, without creating an unsustainable debt burden through borrowing? Will all other short, medium and long term investments in the country remain stable and profitable? If the markets aren't concerned about ongoing investment opportunities in the country they'll be fine with it. If they think there's risk costs will rise. If they don't like the look of it they'll move their money elsewhere and the economy will crash. The markets have lived with nationalised industries before. And think of the money to be made in the future when they're privatised again.

The political opposition to renationalisation is a different issue.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 13, 2022)

Supine said:


>



But what our viewers really want to know, is who's Britain's _shortest_ PM?


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 13, 2022)

Supine said:


>




Getting yer arse handed to you by _Tim Farron._


----------



## ska invita (Oct 13, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Markets are amoral, impersonal and only care about the performance of investments. If the prospects look good money flows in, if the prospects look bad money flows out.
> 
> Will the current investors get a 'fair' price for the public utilities, without creating an unsustainable debt burden through borrowing? Will all other short, medium and long term investments in the country remain stable and profitable? If the markets aren't concerned about ongoing investment opportunities in the country they'll be fine with it. If they think there's risk costs will rise. If they don't like the look of it they'll move their money elsewhere and the economy will crash. The markets have lived with nationalised industries before. And think of the money to be made in the future when they're privatised again.
> 
> The political opposition to renationalisation is a different issue.


Would be interesting to see a historical precedent of mass nationalisation...I wonder if there's anything comparable.

 I think anti corporate policy also "spooks" markets, and as we've seen this week it doesn't take much to knock the house of cards down.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 13, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> And apparently Dr Hook isn't a qualified physician


But he is on the cover of the Rolling Stone.


----------



## Spandex (Oct 13, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Would be interesting to see a historical precedent of mass nationalisation


Labour in 1945.



ska invita said:


> I think anti corporate policy also "spooks" markets


Definitely. What else will the government do? That's why markets get the heebie jeebies whenever a left wing government is elected. Are they going to put people before profits??


----------



## ska invita (Oct 13, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Labour in 1945.


i would imagine banking is much different now to how it was in 1945
could do with a more modern example


----------



## Spandex (Oct 13, 2022)

ska invita said:


> could do with a more modern example


I really need to be doing some work, but knock yourself out:

List of nationalisations by country


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 13, 2022)

Spandex said:


> Markets are amoral, impersonal and only care about the performance of investments. If the prospects look good money flows in, if the prospects look bad money flows out.
> 
> ..........
> 
> The political opposition to renationalisation is a different issue.


What does that last line mean in the contact of the preceding paragraphs? Where is this _political_ opposition coming from? And political as opposed to what, economic?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> We’ve entered another realm (watch the video in the first reply if you havent seen it)




And this is supposed to be the real world is it?


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 13, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> But he is on the cover of the Rolling Stone.


But not the Lancet


----------



## ska invita (Oct 13, 2022)

Spandex said:


> I really need to be doing some work, but knock yourself out:
> 
> List of nationalisations by country


Chavez was the most recent one i could  think of
THis is interesting








						CHART OF THE DAY: Hugo Chavez Defeats American Capitalism
					






					www.businessinsider.com
				






Mitterrand in 1982 had a lot - from a quick glance the stock market didnt flinch...i was too young to remember....interesting


----------



## Spandex (Oct 13, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> What does that last line mean in the contact of the preceding paragraphs? Where is this _political_ opposition coming from? And political as opposed to what, economic?


The discussion started with what 'the markets' will allow, prompted by  comparing the market reaction to Truss/Kwarteng's mini budget and a hypothetical Corbyn government. 

What the markets do is not one and the same thing as what individual investors, politicians, media, 'the establishment' want or do. As Truss and Kwarteng just found out.

I think I know where you're coming from in that last paragraph. Of course the markets, the economy are political constructs, a system created over centuries at sword, cannon and gunpoint as well as financial force, protected by establishments who have come to see them as 'natural', a force to be navigated.


----------



## Supine (Oct 13, 2022)

Somebody has tagged a fracking site on maps


----------



## Wilf (Oct 13, 2022)

Even old Cumberland Digits is treating her with contempt.

11:22 here:









						Minister warns Tory MPs against removing Liz Truss as pressure grows on PM - UK politics live
					

Foreign secretary James Cleverly tells colleagues removing the prime minister would be a ‘disastrously bad idea’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Cid (Oct 13, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Even old Cumberland Digits is treating her with contempt.
> 
> 11:22 here:
> 
> ...



You can direct link to bits of the graun live feed by right clicking on the time stamp and copying that link, e.g:









						Minister warns Tory MPs against removing Liz Truss as pressure grows on PM - UK politics live
					

Foreign secretary James Cleverly tells colleagues removing the prime minister would be a ‘disastrously bad idea’




					www.theguardian.com
				




It has its own article now:









						King Charles greets Liz Truss with: ‘Back again? Dear, oh dear’
					

Under-fire prime minister has awkward exchange with monarch at first weekly audience




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2022)

The significant thing isnt what Charles said, because its just a mode of speech and how to deals with awkward moments. The significant thing is that the media are able to seize upon it and cast it in that way - another demonstration, as if one were needed, of the perilous position Truss finds herself in, and how the press scent blood.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 13, 2022)

elbows said:


> The significant thing isnt what Charles said, because* its just a mode of speech* and how to deals with awkward moments. The significant thing is that the media are able to seize upon it and cast it in that way - another demonstration, as if one were needed, of the perilous position Truss finds herself in, and how the press scent blood.


I agree, though there's a chance windsor doesn't like women who cling onto positions of power.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 13, 2022)

elbows said:


> The significant thing isnt what Charles said, because its just a mode of speech and how to deals with awkward moments. The significant thing is that the media are able to seize upon it and cast it in that way - another demonstration, as if one were needed, of the perilous position Truss finds herself in, and how the press scent blood.


It's probably just the pose she's in when the photo was taken, but that's at least the second image I've seen of truss doing a composite bow/curtsey.  There's also a chance the photo edtors are choosing the precise moment that makes her look a complete div.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I agree, though there's a chance windsor doesn't like women who cling onto positions of power.



Or he is concerned that her vision of making the pie bigger might involve making his fingers tradable on the port markets.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 13, 2022)

Anyway, my etiquette advice for any Urbanites who didn't go to finishing school: shake hands _and then bow_, don't do them at the same fucking time!


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2022)

Nah, overthrow the old order by blending curtsying with mooning and cocking a snook.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 13, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, my etiquette advice for any Urbanites who didn't go to finishing school: shake hands _and then bow_, don't do them at the same fucking time!


I think it depends on your own social rank too. My understanding is that Earls and Dukes can do ‘pull my finger’ when meeting a monarch, as long as they follow it with a deferential “better out than in ‘ey?”


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 13, 2022)

Here's some etiquette advice for anyone who's going to shake hands with the king:


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 13, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, my etiquette advice for any Urbanites who didn't go to finishing school: shake hands _and then bow_, don't do them at the same fucking time!



If  I ever get to a point I meet the monarch I like to think I’m turning my back.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 13, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> If  I ever get to a point I meet the monarch I like to think I’m turning my back.


I'd like to be pulling a lever attached to some rope myself.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 13, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'd like to be pulling a lever attached to some rope myself.




Have to be realistic, I’m more likely to end up on the receiving end of a surprise visit to the fete than I am storming the barricades of Windsor


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 13, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> PMQs is always a terrible way to measure the performance of the PM, but it's good to see its in line with the skills she's shown since coming power in....[checks google]....oh good, 36 days ago.


I rue the day they began televising Parliament and it all became about entertainment rather than informing the public


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 13, 2022)

Does she need the king's permission to continue being a disaster?


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2022)

Pound now soaring since someones been briefing sections of the press that more mini-budget u-turns are being considered. Chancellor currently in America, lol nice timing.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 13, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Does she need the king's permission to continue being a disaster?


As her political career will atest, she never needed anyone's permission


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I rue the day they began televising Parliament and it all became about entertainment rather than informing the public




When was it ever about informing the public?


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2022)

And as the prospect of more u-turns grows, Chope is still trying to defend the shit budget and is wanking on about the anti-growth coalition firing on all cylinders.


----------



## maomao (Oct 13, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's probably just the pose she's in when the photo was taken, but that's at least the second image I've seen of truss doing a composite bow/curtsey.  There's also a chance the photo edtors are choosing the precise moment that makes her look a complete div.


Tbf to Truss on this one point only, what a curtsey and a bow look like has changed several times through history and she's the Prime Minister, if she curtseys like that a) it'll likely catch on and b) anyone with half a brain doesn't give a fuck anyway. It's not like a curtsey is an actual thing.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 13, 2022)

So Liz truss - and the upness of her time... 

Well  the latest of instalment of "the UK government" has properly jumped the shark and we deep into WTF? territory - so who knows? But i'll give it a go.

Looks like the market applying the bollock crushers and the related dismay from mps with one eye on the opinion polls will mean that the "mini" budget gets dismantled piece by piece and kwarting gets the boot in favour of someone who can do a convincing show of cautious competence. This could mean the economy doesnt continute to tail spin and things like borrowing and interest rates are less terrible and the pension funds dont go to the wall. But deep and lasting damage has been done. Deep public spending cuts are poltically very difficult - but some painful squeezing is inevetiable. 
Where that leaves truss is someone whose authority and credibility is completely shredded - a complete  hostage to her mps who are now assuming the next election is lost and they have nothing to loose in rebelling. This may mean she gets booted around by the various factions within the party - so anything  opposed by any bloc of more than 40mps wont get through. 
Will she get replaced? Looks like most of her mps think she's a disaster and her cabinet arent exactly full square behind her. But getting shot of her so soon - and agreeing a "unity" candidate so as to avoid the bufton tuftons choosing another loon is a big ask. So they may stick with her in lame duck role whilst focusing on damage limitation. 
But she look like someone who will continue to shit the bed with both mps and voters to the point where letters stack up and  - so it maybe she goes in 9 months to a year instead - and then what? A "safe pair of hands" to lead them into the election (and inevitable defeat)?  more civil war? 
At the least it looks like her most extreme and damaging policies stand little chance of seeing the light of day - but tory power struggles will continue to rage all around her and she will have zero ability to quell them. 
One faction - the reality based non brexit headbangers -might resign the whip and bring the government down . not likely cos they will very likely  be  finishing their careers- but dont think it should be ruled out.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2022)

The Guardian took a look at the right wing press turning on her:









						‘Pig’s ear’: Tory press raises doubts about Liz Truss’s future
					

Once-loyal papers such as the Sun and Daily Mail start to turn on PM amid financial turmoil




					www.theguardian.com
				




Includes:



> Criticism also came from the Financial Times, which said Truss had presided over “Britannia Unhinged” – a reference to the book titled Britannia Unchained she wrote with Kwasi Kwarteng and other free-market backbenchers in 2012.





> In addition to the scorn poured on Truss by the national press, the editor of an influential website within the Tory party – Conservative Home – said there were doubts about whether the mini-budget could survive at all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 13, 2022)

elbows said:


> The Guardian took a look at the right wing press turning on her:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the prime minister is leading a team writing an updated edition, which will be entitled 'britannia unhinged'


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 13, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I agree, though there's a chance windsor doesn't like women who cling onto positions of power.


Tbf to Chucky his Mum survived 70 years of dealing with 15 other prime ministers, she survived three days of Loopy Lizzie, he probably feels nervous meeting her.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 13, 2022)

> The Spectator’s *James Forsyth* writes that the government is now facing a new problem. Amid rumours that government could make a U-turn on its planned cuts to corporation and dividend taxes, the market has rallied.
> 
> Now, Liz Truss can’t afford not to U-turn.
> 
> ...


lol - bascially


----------



## brogdale (Oct 13, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> lol - bascially


neoliberalism eating itself


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 13, 2022)

Seems to me she's not just the prisoner of her MPs' whims at this point but to the whims of major market players as well – a different beast to being ideologically captured by a particular faction. She was already signalling (bankers' bonus cap) that she recognises the City has all the power in its relationship with the government atm, and now she's entirely vulnerable to the ups and downs of buying and selling, in all its chaotic, contradictory, rumour-fuelled, cocaine-addled, "would you like to ask the audience" glory.

What's going to be interesting about this era, in terms of historic analysis, is looking at how the real "powers that be" move to discipline an errant servant who has, technically, gotten hold of the reins. Crushing though all this is to her as a Prime Minister, it's the gently gently version of what Corbyn would have been facing, had he not fallen at an earlier hurdle. I said it when he was first elected Labour leader, but I find it baffling that people thought Corbs would be able to achieve his objectives without the presence of a fully rebuilt extra-parliamentary power base to counterbalance what we're seeing now.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 13, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> One faction - the reality based non brexit headbangers -might resign the whip and bring the government down . not likely cos they will very likely  be  finishing their careers- but dont think it should be ruled out.



That group (as against the Dorries types) are probably far more likely to be the ones who'll slip into convenient directorships and consultancy roles once they're done with being MPs. It might be the end of their careers in parliament but it's not necessarily bad for their careers beyond that - not as bad as being chained to the Truss government anyway.


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## two sheds (Oct 13, 2022)

I read that as "convenient dictatorships"


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## Jeff Robinson (Oct 13, 2022)

Owen Jones does a good take down of this mad Truss supporter, but IMO it would have been better if he didn't answer her second round of deranged rambling. It would of been funnier if it was just followed by an embarrassed silence.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 13, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Seems to me she's not just the prisoner of her MPs' whims at this point but to the whims of major market players as well – a different beast to being ideologically captured by a particular faction. She was already signalling (bankers' bonus cap) that she recognises the City has all the power in its relationship with the government atm, and now she's entirely vulnerable to the ups and downs of buying and selling, in all its chaotic, contradictory, rumour-fuelled, cocaine-addled, "would you like to ask the audience" glory.
> 
> What's going to be interesting about this era, in terms of historic analysis, is looking at how the real "powers that be" move to discipline an errant servant who has, technically, gotten hold of the reins. Crushing though all this is to her as a Prime Minister, it's the gently gently version of what Corbyn would have been facing, had he not fallen at an earlier hurdle. I said it when he was first elected Labour leader, but I find it baffling that people thought Corbs would be able to achieve his objectives without the presence of a fully rebuilt extra-parliamentary power base to counterbalance what we're seeing now.


There's no way red Jim callaghan would become Labour leader today. The most modest social democratic politics are anathema to mps


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## Wilf (Oct 13, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'd like to be pulling a lever attached to some rope myself.


Meeting Request

Required Attendance: Charles Windsor

Venue: Yekaterinburg Cellar


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## Wilf (Oct 13, 2022)

maomao said:


> Tbf to Truss on this one point only, what a curtsey and a bow look like has changed several times through history and she's the Prime Minister, if she curtseys like that a) it'll likely catch on and b) anyone with half a brain doesn't give a fuck anyway. It's not like a curtsey is an actual thing.


I'd give her tiny, tiny, tiny bit of credit if she didn't do it at all.


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## emanymton (Oct 13, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Owen Jones does a good take down of this mad Truss supporter, but IMO it would have been better if he didn't answer her second round of deranged rambling. It would of been funnier if it was just followed by an embarrassed silence.



I like that even those supporting her recognise she needs to "make good" implying even they think she has been shit so far.


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## brogdale (Oct 13, 2022)

Easy words, but where's the action?


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## bluescreen (Oct 13, 2022)

Well, this is weird. Sky's Mark Stone tweeted that Kwarteng hasn't turned up to the meeting with G20 finance ministers at the IMF, sending his deputy instead. When he asked Andrew Bailey where the Chancellor was, Bailey replied that was a question for the Chancellor. 

Apparently he was in a meeting with his German counterpart, which is obviously far more important for both of them.


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## brogdale (Oct 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Well, this is weird. Sky's Mark Stone tweeted that Kwarteng hasn't turned up to the meeting with G20 finance ministers at the IMF, sending his deputy instead. When he asked Andrew Bailey where the Chancellor was, Bailey replied that was a question for the Chancellor.
> 
> Apparently he was in a meeting with his German counterpart, which is obviously far more important for both of them.



Almost certainly not quite what the journos are hoping for as a scoop, but clearly it's not a good time for Kwarteng to be abroad.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Almost certainly not quite what the journos are hoping for as a scoop, but clearly it's not a good time for Kwarteng to be abroad.


... or at home.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Almost certainly not quite what the journos are hoping for as a scoop, but clearly it's not a good time for Kwarteng to be abroad.


He said he wasn't going anywhere


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## brogdale (Oct 13, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> He said he wasn't going anywhere


Not coming home? Understandable.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Well, this is weird. Sky's Mark Stone tweeted that Kwarteng hasn't turned up to the meeting with G20 finance ministers at the IMF, sending his deputy instead. When he asked Andrew Bailey where the Chancellor was, Bailey replied that was a question for the Chancellor.
> 
> Apparently he was in a meeting with his German counterpart, which is obviously far more important for both of them.





It’s weird just how unavailable Truss and to a lesser extent Kwarteng have been. A lot of missed briefings or addressing a very small group rather than IMF, BOE


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## redsquirrel (Oct 13, 2022)

Spandex said:


> I think I know where you're coming from in that last paragraph. Of course the markets, the economy are political constructs, a system created over centuries at sword, cannon and gunpoint as well as financial force, protected by establishments who have come to see them as 'natural', a force to be navigated.


Indeed. The (increasingly symbiotic) relationship of capital and state means the "markets" are political. The economic and political should not be split.


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## two sheds (Oct 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Easy words, but where's the action?




*Confidence trickster *​kŏn′fĭ-dəns trĭk′stər
noun phrase

6. Leading to the feeling we've all been had.


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## brogdale (Oct 13, 2022)

Goodwin is a prick, but that's gem.


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## PR1Berske (Oct 13, 2022)

The Times is reporting in an exclusive that Sunak or Mordant are being lined up as replacements without a membership vote.


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## pinkmonkey (Oct 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The Times is reporting in an exclusive that Sunak or Mordant are being lined up as replacements without a membership vote.


Yay democracy 😫


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## Raheem (Oct 13, 2022)

pinkmonkey said:


> Yay democracy 😫


Tbf, the will of the people is clear in at least one respect, so marginally more democratic than the process they used last time.


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 13, 2022)




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## Bingoman (Oct 13, 2022)

Well Truss has at least the backing of MSP MP Douglas Ross on Question time


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## Raheem (Oct 14, 2022)

To avoid holding the record for shortest serving prime minister in UK history, Truss would have to make it to 4th January.


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## SysOut (Oct 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Goodwin is a prick, but that's gem.
> 
> View attachment 347029





			Welcome to nginx!


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## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Just posted the news below on the Kwarteng thread, but it overlaps with this one - lots of talk about her going to throw Kwarteng under the bus in order to save herself, not that that will work, as they are joined at the hips on this. I think I'll see if I can put a bet on that lettuce. 
----
According to some newspapers, Truss is planning another U-turn, probably on corporation tax, and is planning to do it whilst Kwarteng is away at the IMF's annual gathering.

Well, she needs to move quickly, because he's cut short his trip, and is heading back early.



> Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng has cut short his trip to the International Monetary Fund in Washington and is returning to the UK earlier than planned, as another major mini-budget U-turn is expected.
> 
> Mr Kwarteng was due to attend a final day of meetings at the IMF's annual gathering today. Instead, after a hasty briefing with journalists late on Thursday, he announced he would fly home overnight.
> 
> *A source close to him dismissed suggestions that this represented a sign of panic.*



Yeah, right.









						Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng to return to London from Washington early as major mini-budget U-turn expected
					

Mr Kwarteng had been due to return to the UK from the annual International Monetary Fund meeting later on Friday, but hasty changes were made.




					news.sky.com


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## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

SysOut said:


> Welcome to nginx!



And, this sums it up very well...



> “The problems facing the Prime Minister are twofold. She has pursued a course of public policy that most voters don’t agree with – they are not won over by the case for tax cuts driving economic growth," he said.
> 
> “You could argue that politicians shouldn’t be led by public opinion. But on top of that, most voters don’t seem to like Liz Truss, which is a bigger problem. *They don’t seem to think she is particularly competent, trustworthy or likeable.*
> 
> “It is a combination of opposing her politics and not really liking her personality. It is difficult, if not impossible, to see how she turns that around.”



It's all very Laurel and Hardy - another fine mess.


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## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

The Times is running with 'Tories plot to replace Truss with Rishi Sunak and Penny Mordaunt', and assuming this is actually the plan, I think it could work, it would dig them out of the hole they are in, and whilst politically embarrassing in the short-term, if they go on to run a stable government, that would soon be forgotten.



> Senior Conservatives are holding talks about replacing Liz Truss with a joint ticket of Rishi Sunak and Penny Mordaunt as part of a “coronation” by MPs.
> 
> Party grandees are in discussions about replacing Truss with a “unity candidate” just weeks after she became the fourth Conservative leader in six years. Unlike the summer leadership contest, MPs would propose just one person to succeed the prime minister.
> 
> One senior Tory told The Times: “A coronation won’t be that hard to arrange. In 2019 candidates needed eight MPs to get on the ballot paper. This year they needed 20. Next time it will be however high it needs to be for only one candidate to clear it.”





> They predicted a pact between Sunak, who lost to Truss in the members’ ballot, and Mordaunt, who finished third in the leadership contest, would have the support of an overwhelming majority of Conservative MPs.
> 
> Around “20 to 30” former ministers and senior backbenchers are attempting to find a way for a “council of elders” to tell Truss to quit. “Conversations are stepping up,” said one former minister.
> 
> Another MP added: “Rishi’s people, Penny’s people and the sensible Truss supporters who realise she’s a disaster just need to sit down together and work out who the unity candidate is. It’s either Rishi as prime minister with Penny as his deputy and foreign secretary, or Penny as prime minister with Rishi as chancellor. They would promise to lead a government of all the talents and most MPs would fall in behind that.”





> *Under the rules of the 1922 Committee, the prime minister cannot face a confidence vote until she has been in office for a year. However, in practice, if enough MPs pressure Sir Graham Brady, the committee chairman, one would probably take place.*
> 
> The party’s constitution states that if only one candidate is on the ballot after MPs’ nominations, the party board — which includes members’ representatives — can demand their elevation is “ratified” by a grassroots vote.


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## Karl Masks (Oct 14, 2022)

I dont want them replacing her and becoming more stable and popular. I want them to crash and burn causing a general election while they are likely to lose


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 14, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I dont want them replacing her and becoming more stable and popular. I want them to crash and burn causing a general election while they are likely to lose



Any replacement will at best slow the decline a bit. The cupboard of competent politicians is bare. And the very act of replacing a leader after a month would be a huge blow for them and a fuck you tomthe membership, not that they're much use for anything anyway.


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## kebabking (Oct 14, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I dont want them replacing her and becoming more stable and popular. I want them to crash and burn causing a general election while they are likely to lose



Great in the abstract, shit for people this week.

Tory MP's are pretty unlikely to vote for a NC motion - they might do of course, Starmer only needs to 40 who have decided to leave parliament anyway, can't stand Truss, and who don't think 3 PM's in one term is outside of democratic acceptability - but I think they'd be more likely to try something else first.

I think this from SpookyFrank is more likely.

 I live in a very Tory area, and pretty much everyone thinks the Tories have fucked it, and that - whether they want it or not - there'll be a Labour government after the next election. It's all very reminiscent of that 1995-97 period: fag-end government lurching from failure to failure, with everyone looking on and knowing _exactly_ what was going to happen, regardless of this or that twist and turn.

Writ ten in the stars stuff. No escape.


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## Smokeandsteam (Oct 14, 2022)

So,

1. There has been an unmistakable sound of a nail being driven into a particular form of neo-conservative politics. Apt that the first Thatcher sell off was of the government stake in BP and Shell and that an energy crisis has crashed the aspirations of her tribute band.
2. Its defeat was by the market, not by the organised working class or the left. The former is a timely reminder of a) what would also happen in the event of the election of a government elected on genuinely social democratic programme and b) overwhelming proof that capital is moving on from the neo-liberal experiment of the last 45 years. The only people left who don’t know it are the Conservative Party membership (a dwindling group of old people hankering for imagined  pasts) and the British left (ditto).
3. This feels like an end. An end of Truss and Kwarteng for sure. An end of Tory rule for a decade or more too. But also the end of an economic era. The particular dominant form of Capital doesn’t require trickle down. It’s role in society is established. It’s power has been embedded. Organised Labour is defeated. The state has already been swept aside. Red tape has already been shredded and shredded.
4. The coronation of Sunak - what MPs wanted all along - will narrow the polls. It will also be the moment the conservative PLP seized control away from its activists: those who elected Truss as a melancholic ache for Maggie. They ended up with Truss as a result: a politician who knows the words but not the tune of their hero. But the really interesting poltical question is what eventually emerges out of the coming interregnum.


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## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Any replacement will at best slow the decline a bit. The cupboard of competent politicians is bare. And the very act of replacing a leader after a month would be a huge blow for them and a fuck you tomthe membership, not that they're much use for anything anyway.


yeah.... but... if they rip the plaster off quickly there'll be at least a good 18 months for a new leader before an election - a long time in politics
im less convinced by Sunak going down well with the public as he'll have the smell of the old regimes about him but I can imagine Penny Mourdant doing a little bit better with the public. They both come across as plumby posh tories though, which somehow Johnson managed to overcome but I dont think they will

but then again, Mourdant's platform at the leadership hustings seemed to be more low tax classic Tory shit. They might look at what has happened with Truss and come up with something else, but what else have they got? The problem is less about competent politicians than the fact that the Tory party has no ideas apart from crashing the UK against the rocks so the robber-beachcombers can make some money off the wreckage


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## Jeff Robinson (Oct 14, 2022)

My worry is that if Truss does get replaced, it will be with someone even worse like the barbaric Neo-Hitlerite Braverman.


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## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> 2. Its defeat was by the market, not by the organised working class or the left. The former is a timely reminder of a) what would also happen in the event of the election of a government elected on genuinely social democratic programme and* b) overwhelming proof that capital is moving on from the neo-liberal experiment of the last 45 years. *


....what is "capital" moving on to though do you think? to me it looks a lot like continued neoliberalism but with a ready reliance of a welfare state to prop up corporate losses and shocks...in many other countries we are seeing neo/quasi fascistic parties coming to power, presumably with heavy financial backing. 
I cant imagine how "capital" can move on from anything much more than whats gone before, when whats really required goes so profoundly against capitals interests


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## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> My worry is that if Truss does get replaced, it will be with someone even worse like the barbaric Neo-Hitlerite Braverman.


I think lurching even more to the right would be even more damaging than anything they have now. 
For years, up to Truss, the right (or at least those NOT in the 1922 Commission) have always been painted as mad, bad and dangerous to know. Truss puts a couple of them in a position of power, and just as their PM, have at best looked incompetent, and at worst mad.


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## kabbes (Oct 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> ....what is "capital" moving on to though do you think? to me it looks a lot like continued neoliberalism but with a ready reliance of a welfare state to prop up corporate losses and shocks...in many other countries we are seeing neo/quasi fascistic parties coming to power, presumably with heavy financial backing.
> I cant imagine how "capital" can move on from anything much more than whats gone before, when whats really required goes so profoundly against capitals interests


I’ve seen it suggested that there is a trend from neoliberalism back towards classic liberalism.  Slowly and in bumps, though.


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## Smokeandsteam (Oct 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> ....what is "capital" moving on to though do you think? to me it looks a lot like continued neoliberalism but with a ready reliance of a welfare state to prop up corporate losses and shocks...in many other countries we are seeing neo/quasi fascistic parties coming to power, presumably with heavy financial backing.
> I cant imagine how "capital" can move on from anything much more than whats gone before, when whats really required goes so profoundly against capitals interests



In British terms, it means interregnum both because our political class is bereft of ideas or profoundly disoriented and because Britain was a leader in the experiment of global capitalism - in fact it was a hub - as a result in national economy terms we’re a husk. British capitalism is indistinguishable from global capitalism. Ditto industry and production. Ditto our politics and culture. As such it’s easier for ‘us’ to imagine the end of the world. 

In terms of wider capital it means inversion as a response to rising populism and two shattering economic shocks in a decade. The era of high globalisation gives way to a countervailing trend. This is not just a moment of involution/backlash, but also of re-centering and internal re-organisation of political units.


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## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> My worry is that if Truss does get replaced, it will be with someone even worse like the barbaric Neo-Hitlerite Braverman.


if Truss is to be replaced (unconvinced as yet it'll happen, but larks if it does) it'll be by a palace coup of the parliamentary party - the likes of Braverman don't have anything like the support they'd need to be the person in the frame for replacing her.


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## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’ve seen it suggested that there is a trend from neoliberalism back towards classic liberalism.  Slowly and in bumps, though.


I dont understand the difference tbh


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## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I think lurching even more to the right would be even more damaging than anything they have now.
> For years, up to Truss, the right (or at least those NOT in the 1922 Commission) have always been painted as mad, bad and dangerous to know. Truss puts a couple of them in a position of power, and just as their PM, have at best looked incompetent, and at worst mad.


The 1922 committee consists of all backbench tory mps


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## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> In terms of wider capital it means inversion as a response to rising populism and two shattering economic shocks. The era of high globalisation gives way to a countervailing trend. This is not just a moment of involution/backlash, but also of re-centering and internal re-organisation of political units.


...I dont know what you mean by inversion and re-centering, but what you described sounds to me like still the same system but with maybe just a little less globalisation. ??? 

Thing is the financial masters of the universe may know that zombie capitalism isn't really working properly but they are both personally immune from any fall out and are so blinkered in a view of how the system can be any different that no real alternative can be imagined... I dont really go along with the idea that "capital is moving on from the neo-liberal experiment of the last 45 years", not in any profound way. Maybe they're after the odd new managerial bit of fine tuning, and definitely getting used to multi billion state handouts, but I cant see any meaningful change. 

What am I missing?


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## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> So,
> 
> b) overwhelming proof that capital is moving on from the neo-liberal experiment of the last 45 years. The only people left who don’t know it are the Conservative Party membership (a dwindling group of old people hankering for imagined  pasts) and the British left (ditto).


A useful post, but I'm not convinced by that particular take.
In a very obvious sense this flexing of the global, financialised corporate muscle of fincap could be seen as a metric of just how deeply entrenched and asymmetric power relations between neoliberal capital and state actors have become.


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## Rob Ray (Oct 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I’ve seen it suggested that there is a trend from neoliberalism back towards classic liberalism.  Slowly and in bumps, though.


Mm a major focus for a lot of billionaire brains, and I'd imagine a lot of the merely millionaire ones, seems to be acknowledging and preparing for the onrush of social breakdown across a great deal of the globe, under whatever banner is most appropriate (water scarcity, climate change, capital crisis etc, take your pick). Which tends to inspire a mindset of drawbridges, powerful levers of control and stability in Western holdfasts where they have massive static strategic investments - very much including Britain. Dramatic "economic experiments" are not what the powers that be want from our political class while it's supposed to be minding their assets.


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## Louis MacNeice (Oct 14, 2022)

Maybe not the thread for this, but if we are facing a 'paradigm shift' with regard to western capitalism - analogous to the move from the post-war consensus to neo-liberalism - then surely an overtly authoritarian capitalism is an option? 

Either a fascistic or state capitalist variant is a potentially available option should capital judge that the acommodations required were worth it.

Apologies for being so cheery at breakfast time.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


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## Karl Masks (Oct 14, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> My worry is that if Truss does get replaced, it will be with someone even worse like the barbaric Neo-Hitlerite Braverman.


That's the obvious concern, but I don't think she could hold it together as PM either. Braverman is largely also incompetent and driven solely by ideology. She walked out when Yvette Cooper gave aher a dressing down yesterday when the house was half empty. Doing that at PMQ's would be disastrous. She can't take criticism and has no answers. Watch her defend Brexit on QT, using tired divisive language 'remoaners' etc; whem challenged all she could do was shake her head and look away like she was having a strange tic. Complete disconnect


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## Lurdan (Oct 14, 2022)

Financial Times:



> A source close to the chancellor said: “The medium-term fiscal plan and fiscal responsibility is core to what we’re doing.”
> 
> The chancellor spent two days in Washington, where he heard the IMF and other finance ministers recommend that he reverse the tax cuts quickly before more financial damage was done.
> 
> The source said the chancellor’s hasty departure while the meetings were under way was not the same as a previous early exit, when the Greek finance minister left G20 talks at the height of the eurozone crisis in 2011.



🤣🤣


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 14, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> surely an overtly authoritarian capitalism is an option?


Yep. In fact Britain has been quietly moving towards that model for a while now under multiple Prime Ministers. Freewheeler Truss hasn't done away with the anti-protest law.


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## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

kebabking said:


> Great in the abstract, shit for people this week.
> 
> Tory MP's are pretty unlikely to vote for a NC motion - they might do of course, Starmer only needs to 40 who have decided to leave parliament anyway, can't stand Truss, and who don't think 3 PM's in one term is outside of democratic acceptability - but I think they'd be more likely to try something else first.
> 
> ...


Yes, with two major differences - 1995 to 1997 saw the economy on the upswing, and there were exciting things to look forward to. This time, the first factor not at all, and the second not so much. There's no hope in the air at all, and subsequently far less enjoyment of the Tories being in another self made crisis.


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## Jeff Robinson (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> if Truss is to be replaced (unconvinced as yet it'll happen, but larks if it does) it'll be by a palace coup of the parliamentary party - the likes of Braverman don't have anything like the support they'd need to be the person in the frame for replacing her.



Yeah, would most likely be Mordaunt or Sunak, but I will never underestimate the depths the Tories would sink to. Braverman's right populist rhetoric probably strikes a chord with a good chunk of the public too.


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## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

I think that's right. On the outside, it might seem obvious they'd choose the most sensible option, but they haven't shown any tendency to do that - and they've cycled through quite a few options. Left to them, it keeps getting worse. They might well think that as long as a semi-competent chancellor takes care of the money stuff, a leader like Braverman with all her horror is just what Britain needs - and enough of them and enough of the electorate might just buy that, for a time, until the fuck up continues to get more extreme.


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## kabbes (Oct 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> I dont understand the difference tbh


They’re pretty different.  Classic liberalism believes in the social contract.  People give up some power to an authority, who then rules with the permission of the people.  This authority is tasked with ensuring a society that allows people to exercise their remaining freedoms.  It’s a limited government, with the “invisible hand” of the market place kept in check by regulation.

Neoliberalism wants full deregulation and privatisation, with the primacy of individual choice and property rights over all else.  That makes it sound a bit like libertarianism, which it does have some overlaps with, but there are differences there too.


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## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Yeah, would most likely be Mordaunt or Sunak, but I will never underestimate the depths the Tories would sink to. Braverman's right populist rhetoric probably strikes a chord with a good chunk of the public too.


She didn't even make it past the first round in the recent election, and I doubt her performance so far as HS has improved her standing with the parliamentary party.


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## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Maybe not the thread for this, but if we are facing a 'paradigm shift' with regard to western capitalism - analogous to the move from the post-war consensus to neo-liberalism - then surely an overtly authoritarian capitalism is an option?
> 
> Either a fascistic or state capitalist variant is a potentially available option should capital judge that the acommodations required were worth it.
> 
> ...


totally agree. the range of options seems to go from technocratic but still voracious, privatising capitalism on the "left" to what you describe on the right...and the more crisis faced the more the options on the far right will be reached for


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## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> They’re pretty different.  Classic liberalism believes in the social contract.  People give up some power to an authority, who then rules with the permission of the people.  This authority is tasked with ensuring a society that allows people to exercise their remaining freedoms.  It’s a limited government, with the “invisible hand” of the market place kept in check by regulation.
> 
> Neoliberalism wants full deregulation and privatisation, with the primacy of individual choice and property rights over all else.  That makes it sound a bit like libertarianism, which it does have some overlaps with, but there are differences there too.


Agree with this. On the Neoliberal point I'd say that on the way to full privatisation it requires competent state actors/institutions that are prepared to consolidate the state via regressive transfers of wealth from taxes on labour to unearned wealth and its defence. It's no coincidence that after 12 years of tory governance and 46 years of neoliberal ascendancy, we're at such a high level of tax take. One reason why "the markets" have blocked the Truss agenda.


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## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I think that's right. On the outside, it might seem obvious they'd choose the most sensible option, but they haven't shown any tendency to do that - and they've cycled through quite a few options. Left to them, it keeps getting worse. They might well think that as long as a semi-competent chancellor takes care of the money stuff, a leader like Braverman with all her horror is just what Britain needs - and enough of them and enough of the electorate might just buy that, for a time, until the fuck up continues to get more extreme.


If it went to the membership and she somehow got on the ticket perhaps, but there is zero chance of a full leadership election if Truss is ousted. The MPs have no appetite for a headbanger in charge.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> If it went to the membership and she somehow got on the ticket perhaps, but there is zero chance of a full leadership election if Truss is ousted. The MPs have no appetite for a headbanger in charge.


Well you say that, but they knew Liz Truss was a headbanger, and they let her go for months on end, proving precisely that, before punting it to their brain dead membership - knowing what would happen. We had a whole fucking summer of her proving how unsuited she was, and Britannia Unchained was published years ago - she was always open about who she was and what she'd do. They could've rigged it differently at any point, but they chose not to intervene.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Well you say that, but they knew Liz Truss was a headbanger, and they let her go for months on end, proving precisely that, before punting it to their brain dead membership - knowing what would happen. We had a whole fucking summer of her proving how unsuited she was, and Britannia Unchained was published years ago - she was always open about who she was and what she'd do. They could've rigged it differently at any point, but they chose not to intervene.


who is they?


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Yeah, would most likely be Mordaunt or Sunak, but I will never underestimate the depths the Tories would sink to.


yup. Perversely just went to see what sort of despair is being voiced on the conservative home website, and apparently a Mordaunt-Sunak palace coup is one of the less mad ideas that are floating about in the panicky corridors of power.








						It's now more likely than not that the mini-Budget will be withdrawn and that the Chancellor may have to go | Conservative Home
					

Some Tory members would see such a development as nothing less than an establishment coup: as a conspiracy of bad actors working together to win revenge for Brexit.




					conservativehome.com


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> She didn't even make it past the first round in the recent election, and I doubt her performance so far as HS has improved her standing with the parliamentary party.


If you want to bet on a further move right then I'd think Badenoch would be where to put your money. 

I don't think it will happen because most Tory MPs will be looking for damage limitation not 'forging ahead with a radical new agenda' (or however they choose to dress it up).

That said, I'm sure there are some racing heartbeats and wide eyed reveries over at Spike/IoI; nearly three decades on from 'Preparing for Power' Frank and his children can't help but dream.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

I don't see where the confidence in them suddenly coming to their senses comes from. It flies in the face of all evidence. They don't care if someone's fucking mad and/or bad, as long as they don't fuck up the economy. That's why Liz Truss got in such a mess so fast. If she hadn't spooked the markets and cost the country so dearly, we'd be all set for several years of her, and Braverman as Home Secretary, and Rees Mogg doing whatever the fuck he does with high office, and all the rest of her nutcase choices - and much of the electorate would be fine with it.


----------



## StoneRoad (Oct 14, 2022)

flipping 'eck - 
4 PMs in six years runs a close second to the Italian pattern !


----------



## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> They’re pretty different.  Classic liberalism believes in the social contract.  People give up some power to an authority, who then rules with the permission of the people.  This authority is tasked with ensuring a society that allows people to exercise their remaining freedoms.  It’s a limited government, with the “invisible hand” of the market place kept in check by regulation.
> 
> Neoliberalism wants full deregulation and privatisation, with the primacy of individual choice and property rights over all else.  That makes it sound a bit like libertarianism, which it does have some overlaps with, but there are differences there too.



I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but if a bunch of Classical Liberalists take charge you think they will increase regulation and retreat from or undo privatisation? I cant see it, whatever they may have learned about social contracts at oxbridge


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I don't see where the confidence in them suddenly coming to their senses comes from. It flies in the face of all evidence. They don't care if someone's fucking mad and/or bad, as long as they don't fuck up the economy. That's why Liz Truss got in such a mess so fast. If she hadn't spooked the markets and cost the country so dearly, we'd be all set for several years of her, and Braverman as Home Secretary, and Rees Mogg doing whatever the fuck he does with high office, and all the rest of her nutcase choices - and much of the electorate would be fine with it.


Sorry, but it's the mad idea that Braverman - who managed to secure the backing of a tiny number of MPs in the recent leadership election - would be ushered into the leadership by the same MPs now that flies in the face of all evidence.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> Sorry, but it's the mad idea that Braverman - who managed to secure the backing of a tiny number of MPs in the recent leadership election - would be ushered into the leadership by the same MPs now that flies in the face of all evidence.


It's not my idea, I just fully agree with the concept that someone along those lines is far more likely than not. Hope is not evidence. The hope that they won't scrape their substantial barrel of horror even deeper is almost certainly misplaced.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> yup. Perversely just went to see what sort of despair is being voiced on the conservative home website, and apparently a Mordaunt-Sunak palace coup is one of the less mad ideas that are floating about in the panicky corridors of power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's worth having a quick read of the sack of cats that is currently Conservative Home. A party that deeply split on various fault lines, is going to find it very hard to regroup convincingly and quickly.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> It's worth having a quick read of the sack of cats that is currently Conservative Home. A party that deeply split on various fault lines, is going to find it very hard to regroup convincingly and quickly.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


Yes. And in addition to their problems with regrouping potential, their splits mean they are equally as unlikely to make productive, moderate choices, regardless of what anyone might hope.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It's not my idea, I just fully agree with the concept that someone along those lines is far more likely than not. Hope is not evidence. The hope that they won't scrape their substantial barrel of horror even deeper is almost certainly misplaced.


Where's hope come into it?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> Where's hope come into it?


In hoping that they'll moderate rather than fuck up further.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

I don't think they're that likely to remove Truss, probably just leave her there as a sort of sacrificial figurehead for the time being at least, whilst underneath doing everything they can to win back the international money markets/ stave off a total economic binfire, so every policy she's announced so far binned etc.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> In hoping that they'll moderate rather than fuck up further.


Oh right - I'm not doing that. I'm just looking at the balance of power and support the likely candidates have in the parliamentary party, and Braverman doesn't have any.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> I don't think they're that likely to remove Truss, probably just leave her there as a sort of sacrificial figurehead for the time being at least, whilst underneath doing everything they can to win back the international money markets/ stave off a total economic binfire, so every policy she's announced so far binned etc.


Yes, I agree. She's there until they can figure out a way to ditch her without doing even more damage, or ditching their own rules and regulations so blatantly when they didn't before. That might be next week, it might be next year. It suits them better than anything else right now to have her soak up the worst of it.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 14, 2022)

It does seem like the quiet men/women in suits are just going to slot someone up for replacement next time. Which is the sensible approach, it’s the farcical members vote that got us truss so much better to avoid that even remote fig leaf of democracy.


Hopefully some frothing loon will put name on ballot and spoil any quiet anointment of a leader and we can get a good meaty fight out of it.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but if a bunch of Classical Liberalists take charge you think they will increase regulation and retreat from or undo privatisation? I cant see it, whatever they may have learned about social contracts at oxbridge


Quite right. At the peak of ‘classic’ liberalism there was little state intervention or welfare state.  The social contract was upheld through philanthropy and a healthy dose of violence.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but if a bunch of Classical Liberalists take charge you think they will increase regulation and retreat from or undo privatisation? I cant see it, whatever they may have learned about social contracts at oxbridge


Well, at the time, we were talking about the direction of _capital_, not politics.  Certainly, my little sector of capital has well and truly shifted from a very neoliberal mindset to a far more classical liberal one over the 25 years I have been working in it.  The fact that politics has moved in a different direction probably reflects the disconnect between capital and the populace.  Basically, there is a tendency for people in these discussions to treat capital power and political power as the same group, but they are different institutions within society.  They both have a lot of ability to influence events but in both cases, this runs up against limits.  And they have a (very) large alignment of interests but these do, nevertheless, sometimes clash.  Perhaps most crucially of all, they have different cultures with different social histories, which means they can have quite different perspectives.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Yes, I agree. She's there until they can figure out a way to ditch her without doing even more damage, or ditching their own rules and regulations so blatantly when they didn't before. That might be next week, it might be next year. It suits them better than anything else right now to have her soak up the worst of it.


They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.  Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.  

She won’t make it to my birthday (January 4, which she needs to get to to avoid being shortest serving British PM)


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Well, at the time, we were talking about the direction of _capital_, not politics.  Certainly, my little sector of capital has well and truly shifted from a very neoliberal mindset to a far more classical liberal one over the 25 years I have been working in it.  The fact that politics has moved in a different direction probably reflects the disconnect between capital and the populace.  Basically, there is a tendency for people in these discussions to treat capital power and political power as the same group, but they are different institutions within society.  They both have a lot of ability to influence events but in both cases, this runs up against limits.  And they have a (very) large alignment of interests but these do, nevertheless, sometimes clash.  Perhaps most crucially of all, they have different cultures with different social histories, which means they can have quite different perspectives.


How does an individual company become less neoliberal? Reinvestment of profits is still well down, most still goes to exec salaries and shareholders.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Well, at the time, we were talking about the direction of _capital_, not politics.  Certainly, my little sector of capital has well and truly shifted from a very neoliberal mindset to a far more classical liberal one over the 25 years I have been working in it.  The fact that politics has moved in a different direction probably reflects the disconnect between capital and the populace.  Basically, there is a tendency for people in these discussions to treat capital power and political power as the same group, but they are different institutions within society.  They both have a lot of ability to influence events but in both cases, this runs up against limits.  And they have a (very) large alignment of interests but these do, nevertheless, sometimes clash.  Perhaps most crucially of all, they have different cultures with different social histories, which means they can have quite different perspectives.


okay i hear that...this kind of thing is interesting:

...Max Hastings saying Keir Starmer is being too timid! I guess thats what you are talking about with neoliberalisers trying to mitigate the damage.
I still cant see any reversal in direction, even if more breaks are successfully applied. Its the nature of the beast


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

belboid said:


> *They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.  Oh dear, what a shame, never mind. *
> 
> She won’t make it to my birthday (January 4, which she needs to get to to avoid being shortest serving British PM)


Well, we'll all have to be terribly brave about that.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

belboid said:


> *They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.  Oh dear, what a shame, never mind. *
> 
> She won’t make it to my birthday (January 4, which she needs to get to to avoid being shortest serving British PM)


Well, we'll all have to be terribly brave about that.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2022)

I spose one idea is the grey suits just front up to Trus and tell her, go or we'll change the rules to allow a NCV.

She'll say no, of course. Why would she just resign, now. Clearly has no understanding of her limits, no ability to read the room, is apparently having quite a fun time of it all.



I think more likely, U turns, farse continues at a slower pace, the grey men trying to manage her through the next couple of years.

Delicious bind for the Tory MPs as noted. 18 months of degredation, hoping the cost of living crisis abates, getting it in the neck from constituants, then the boot. Or bring it all down now, look ridiculous, still get it in the neck from constituents, possibly get the boot earlier.

The smart thing on probability terms is to ditch Trus now by any means and hope someone else can turn it around. i.e. Ridiculous and possibly dead vs dead.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2022)

If (and its a pretty big if)  they do move to ditch Truss it will be via a "palace coup" with a pre-agreed leader (and probably chancellor) who will have to have the backing of a decent marjotiy of tory mps. So a Mourdant/Sunack double ticket would seem to  be the most likely outcome - they got the most votes in the first round from mps and would both appear to live in the reality based world. Their job would be basically damage limitation prior to the next election. However they would still be having to deal with ongoing civil war in their own ranks. 
Its _probably _more likely that the talk of plots and coups is about letting Truss know that she needs to obey the consensus opinion of mp's - or else. So ditch the budget, sack kwarting, stop being mental. Prime minister in name only. 
Then maybe she's left in place to  take the flack for election disaster.
But - whatever they want to happen and whatever they do - more chaos, fuck ups and damage is still very much the most likely outcome.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 14, 2022)

belboid said:


> How does an individual company become less neoliberal?


In terms of the demands it is making of regulators and governments, and the targets it voluntarily signs up to.  

Which companies were calling for corporation tax to be frozen, for example?  Or look at corporate response to culture risk and diversity -- they are undertaking all kinds of voluntary targets, _because there is a perception that there is value to be obtained from this_.  Look at climate change targets too -- a lot of companies are going well beyond legislative requirements, and this is really not just about a perception of consumer demand.  In my area -- insurance -- the government keep saying that they are going to loosen Solvency II (the EU regulation of insurance) following Brexit and the insurers keep asking them not to.  

All this is not because corporations believe in equality and sharing wealth.  It's because there is an increasing belief amongst the individuals running companies that well-regulated marketplaces and cultural contexts _help to improve profit_.  That's a classical liberal mindset, not a neoliberal one.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

Press conference for later today; should be hilarious.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Press conference for later today; should be hilarious.



Oh, how exciting. 



> PM to hold press conference this afternoon​Downing Street has just announced that Liz Truss will hold a press conference later today.
> 
> The prime minister and chancellor are expected to confirm today that they will U-turn on the plan to freeze corporation tax, the Guardian’s *Pippa Crerar* writes.  LINK



A few minutes later...



> The chancellor, *Kwasi Kwarteng,* will not be standing next to the prime minister, Liz Truss, when she gives her press conference this afternoon, Sky News is reporting.
> 
> Sources have said “it looks as if the deal has been done”.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

kabbes said:


> In terms of the demands it is making of regulators and governments, and the targets it voluntarily signs up to.
> 
> Which companies were calling for corporation tax to be frozen, for example?  Or look at corporate response to culture risk and diversity -- they are undertaking all kinds of voluntary targets, _because there is a perception that there is value to be obtained from this_.  Look at climate change targets too -- a lot of companies are going well beyond legislative requirements, and this is really not just about a perception of consumer demand.  In my area -- insurance -- the government keep saying that they are going to loosen Solvency II (the EU regulation of insurance) following Brexit and the insurers keep asking them not to.
> 
> All this is not because corporations believe in equality and sharing wealth.  It's because there is an increasing belief amongst the individuals running companies that well-regulated marketplaces and cultural contexts _help to improve profit_.  That's a classical liberal mindset, not a neoliberal one.


Hmm, neoliberalism has no problems with regulation as long as it allows markets to operate ‘properly’ and it is in the interests of major players to block new entrants (via regs if need be).  Likewise voluntary targets are absolutely part of the game.  I do agree tho that a lot of bosses/companies are seeing the last fifty years economic policies are no longer working for them.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Press conference for later today; should be hilarious.


Just Liz, no Kwasi.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Kwarteng has been chopped apparently.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, how exciting.
> 
> 
> 
> A few minutes later...




"I've been very clear..."
"I've been very clear..."
"I've been very clear..."


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2022)

Kwarteng gets the chop for enacting Truss's ideas. She did go on about cutting tax during the leadership campaign after all. First thing I'll do when becoming leader etc.

She has been very clear on that TBF.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

I just don't see how sacking Kwarteng will save her, when she was equally responsible for this mess.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 14, 2022)

Let's see...


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2022)

Thats got to be some sort of record for shortest occupancy of no 11


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 14, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> Thats got to be some sort of record for shortest occupancy of no 11



It's close - he lasted 39 days, Iain McLeod died after 31 days in the job in 1970.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I just don't see how sacking Kwarteng will save her, when she was equally responsible for this mess.



Yep, she has to ditch her growth by cutting tax shtick and let the next chanselor do something sane and safe or this sacrifice will at best only appease the markets temporarily.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I just don't see how sacking Kwarteng will save her, when she was equally responsible for this mess.



Throw the other person under a bus for what was a joint plan.  How very Tory.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

was better of staying in the US, rushed back for humiliation 



cupid_stunt said:


> I just don't see how sacking Kwarteng will save her, when she was equally responsible for this mess.



agree...ritual sacrifice, drawing a line etc, but its all theatre and she remains shit in the eyes of everyone


----------



## Supine (Oct 14, 2022)

Hopefully she’ll get a chance to mention the fantastic energy package she has saved us all with.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

It’s a game to these cunts


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 14, 2022)

Supine said:


> Hopefully she’ll get a chance to mention the fantastic energy package she has saved us all with.


Maybe more than once? 

Also will she be able to resist bigging up her fight against the ever growing forces of the anti growth coalition?

Waiting in anticipation with the rest of the nation - Louis MacNeice


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 14, 2022)

So who will be next Chancellor? Does she have a choice? Have the men in suits have told her she has to have someone from their shortlist?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 14, 2022)

Maybe she's found out that Kwarteng was a secret member of the anti-growth coalition. That's why he was running around doing all that secret chancelloring behind her back.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> So who will be next Chancellor? Does she have a choice? Have the men in suits have told her she has to have someone from their shortlist?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> So who will be next Chancellor? Does she have a choice? Have the men in suits have told her she has to have someone from their shortlist?




Rumours say Cunt


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> Kwarteng has been chopped apparently.


Where are you hearing this from


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Where are you hearing this from


The news


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

belboid said:


> The news


Ok just heard that now by Sam Coates on Sky


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Ok just heard that now by Sam Coates on Sky



Yeah, Sam said, Kwarteng has entered Downing Street by the backdoor, never a good sign.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yeah, Sam said, Kwarteng has entered Downing Street by the backdoor, never a good sign.




With the rumours about truss sex life that might just be good news though


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> With the rumours about truss sex life that might just be good news though


shut up.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

What a cunt. I hate snivelling cowards that pin their mistakes on others. At least have the courage of your conviction to stand or fall on your own terms. It should either be both, or neither - they're a package deal, as was their mess. I don't like him either, but she's meant to be his good friend and neighbour. Anyone who'd hang their friend out to dry so they could slither on to another day is a piece of fucking filth. If at all possible, I now think even less of her than before.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 14, 2022)

She's gonna say she's seen that video of him laughing at the funeral.


----------



## Humberto (Oct 14, 2022)

Good judgement to walk into a trap of your own making.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

She’s going to try to blame him for the exact policies that she was promising for months to enact if she got to be PM, great stuff I’ll tune in to watch that.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

He’s gone!


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Yes, I agree. She's there until they can figure out a way to ditch her without doing even more damage, or ditching their own rules and regulations so blatantly when they didn't before. That might be next week, it might be next year. It suits them better than anything else right now to have her soak up the worst of it.


I think this is right, in the sense that they don't have any good options.  If they could press a reset button sunak would be PM in an instant, but the process to actually hoy her out is so damaging in terms of conflict and looking stupid that they probably won't do it.  There was some BBC politics reporter on yesterday saying tory MPs were divided about what to do (stick or twist + whether to act now or leave it X months) but hadn't got a clue how to achieve any of their goals.  The only conceivable way forward is if she resigns, but from the point of view of being a careerist politician, why would she?  And that wouldn't itself restore their 'reputation' as a party.

Long winded way of saying that pure stasis and lack of mechanisms/process might leave her in till the gen election.  Or not.

I think there's an at least superficial parallel with where Labour got to  under Corbyn in the run up to the 2019 election, inc the Brexit policy.  The party still fighting like rats in a sack and a headline policy on Brexit that was just about the absence of having a policy.  No way for either faction in the party to take control and the relationship particularly with working class voters shot to pieces.  The tories have somehow managed to do this whilst in government and by trashing the economy. Quite impressive.


----------



## JimW (Oct 14, 2022)

belboid said:


> He’s gone!


Needs a Richie Benaud voice and mention of the long walk back to the pavilion.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 14, 2022)

twitter link


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> Needs a Richie Benaud voice and mention of the long walk back to the pavilion.


He won't be watching that innings again in a hurry.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 14, 2022)

I saw this at work today and think Truss and Kwarteng need to read it:


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 14, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I saw this at work today and think Truss and Kwarteng need to read it:
> View attachment 347096


Too late for Kwarteng - just seen he’s gone 
lololololololol


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 14, 2022)

I'm torn between enjoying the uplifting spectacle of Tories yet again being absolutely miserable and feeling a bit queasy knowing that Bojo and Sunak are probably also enjoying it.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

belboid said:


> He’s gone!


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> shut up.


This.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 14, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> With the rumours about truss sex life that might just be good news though


Yep the problem with Liz Truss is how she may or may not like to have sex! 

Think harder before typing please.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## JimW (Oct 14, 2022)

Lurdan said:


> twitter link


Nice to hear unlike most paranoid crypto anti Semites they're relaxed and chilling.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I think this is right, in the sense that they don't have any good options.  If they could press a reset button sunak would be PM in an instant, but the process to actually hoy her out is so damaging in terms of conflict and looking stupid that they probably won't do it.  There was some BBC politics reporter on yesterday saying tory MPs were divided about what to do (stick or twist + whether to act now or leave it X months) but hadn't got a clue how to achieve any of their goals.  The only conceivable way forward is if she resigns, but from the point of view of being a careerist politician, why would she?  And that wouldn't itself restore their 'reputation' as a party.
> 
> Long winded way of saying that pure stasis and lack of mechanisms/process might leave her in till the gen election.  Or not.
> 
> I think there's an at least superficial parallel with where Labour got to  under Corbyn in the run up to the 2019 election, inc the Brexit policy.  The party still fighting like rats in a sack and a headline policy on Brexit that was just about the absence of having a policy.  No way for either faction in the party to take control and the relationship particularly with working class voters shot to pieces.  The tories have somehow managed to do this whilst in government and by trashing the economy. Quite impressive.


Just 'cause you mentioned him, the fact this could basically hand Starmer and his ilk the next election (although, let's not start counting our rotten eggs yet...) and thus give their supporters superficial validation of his superiority to Corbyn/actual left politics... the Tories are still fucking winning, even when they're losing


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Part 2 said:


>



I'm guessing, lead by gove.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

- 1 cunt + 1 cunt = no change in the level of cuntery 

I wish early expiration  on everyone involved in this shitty political snake and ladders

That’s my high level of discourse over for today


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Part 2 said:


>



do they have any serious people?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I think this is right, in the sense that they don't have any good options.  If they could press a reset button sunak would be PM in an instant, but the process to actually hoy her out is so damaging in terms of conflict and looking stupid that they probably won't do it.  There was some BBC politics reporter on yesterday saying tory MPs were divided about what to do (stick or twist + whether to act now or leave it X months) but hadn't got a clue how to achieve any of their goals.  The only conceivable way forward is if she resigns, but from the point of view of being a careerist politician, why would she?  And that wouldn't itself restore their 'reputation' as a party.
> 
> Long winded way of saying that pure stasis and lack of mechanisms/process might leave her in till the gen election.  *Or not*. [A week the time between 2 posts is a long time in politics  ]
> 
> I think there's an at least superficial parallel with where Labour got to  under Corbyn in the run up to the 2019 election, inc the Brexit policy.  The party still fighting like rats in a sack and a headline policy on Brexit that was just about the absence of having a policy.  No way for either faction in the party to take control and the relationship particularly with working class voters shot to pieces.  The tories have somehow managed to do this whilst in government and by trashing the economy. Quite impressive.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> do they have any serious people?


It's the ones who always wear ties.


----------



## Flavour (Oct 14, 2022)

this all moves a little too fast to even enjoy it properly. instagram politics


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

Fuck sake. What a mess to make. She was warned every step of the way.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Well, definitely a sacking that confirms her weakness rather than strength.  If it is to be Cunt, that's a way of getting someone in to do the dirty work of reworking the mini budget, but ends up alienating all the wild eyed believers.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

In any other field, this kind of fuck up incompetent shitbaggery would exclude you from ever stepping foot in that work sector ever again. These scum are just put into a bit of gardening leave until their mates create another slot to be filled.

Scum


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 14, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Yep the problem with Liz Truss is how she may or may not like to have sex!
> 
> Think harder before typing please.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice



I don't give a shit how she fucks or who she fucks or how often she fucks, she can do what she likes.

Just amused by the phrasing "going in the backdoor of Downing Street" and I reserve the right to giggle over it just as I laugh at the term Cockfosters when the tube announces it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

spitfire said:


> View attachment 347097



Get ready with your no. 2 balloon.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Enjoyably, The Daily Star are now live-streaming a lettuce to see if Truss lasts longer than it



Edit: too slow - danny la rouge beat me too it


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 14, 2022)

This is all a ridiculous mix of hilarious and terrifying.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2022)

Do we know what time the press conference is?


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Get ready with your no. 2 balloon.




What balloons do I use if she self immolates and calls a GE at 2pm?

(she won't or she wouldn't have bothered sacking Kwasi, it's just a bit of fun)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Do we know what time the press conference is?



Sometime around 2pm, it'll probably be late.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

Some members of a Norwegian choir ( yeh ) quizzed me the other week on what the FUCK is going on in the UK. They follow Uk stuff very closely and think we are in some self inflicted terminal death spiral


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

Haven't had this much fun for some while🙂


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Haven't had this much fun for some while🙂


Not since boris went three months ago


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

belboid said:


> Not since boris went three months ago


It already feels like a lot longer. No doubt BJ would love to think it felt like it was only yesterday, but no, it feels like a very long time ago.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Hunt is the new chancellor

From the Political Editor at The Times


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Do we know what time the press conference is?


I guess just as soon as she's found a desperate enough idiot to take over from Kwarteng.


----------



## Humberto (Oct 14, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Haven't had this much fun for some while🙂


It'll likely blow over soon enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I guess just as soon as she's found a desperate enough idiot to take over from Kwarteng.





cupid_stunt said:


> Hunt is the new chancellor
> 
> From the Political Editor at The Times


and lo and behold she has found one


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2022)

Talk about Truss being forced to resign seems to have gone up a notch. Looks like team lettuce could come away victorious.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

The Times’ Steven Swinford is also reporting that Chris Philp is out as the chief secretary to the Treasury.

Philp has been replaced by Ed Argar, Swinford says

spitfire, your balloon is required.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

That must be what, 5 chancellors in the last 6 months?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> That must be what, 5 chancellors in the last 6 months?


who's counting?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> That must be what, 5 chancellors in the last 6 months?


Yep, 5 since Feb 13th (8 months).


----------



## contadino (Oct 14, 2022)

Sterling's still slipping against the dollar. Maybe somewhere in the darkness that's Truss's mind, there's a flicker of light suggesting that "It's me, not you"?

I doubt it though. I suspect that'll maybe emerge when Brady's shaking her by the shoulders like a rag doll, screaming at her to fuck off.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## ska invita (Oct 14, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Some members of a Norwegian choir ( yeh ) quizzed me the other week on what the FUCK is going on in the UK. They follow Uk stuff very closely and think we are in some self inflicted terminal death spiral



The view from abroad is pretty agreed on that I think....especially in europe...even my friend in Istanbul (where Turkey is increasingly sinking into the mud, 83% inflation) takes pity when we chat on the phone.

I really think this state we are in is all the outcome of two key things: the support of Brexit, or more accurately cheerleading Nigel Farage on to successfully dominate UK politics for the last however many years, in combination with the establishment attack on Corbyn and the squashing and slandering of a popular social democratic alternative. This is now totally the political world made in those power brokers image.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Talk about Truss being forced to resign seems to have gone up a notch. Looks like team lettuce could come away victorious.


I just discovered the live stream


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

This is off the bullshit scale.


----------



## hegley (Oct 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Do we know what time the press conference is?


2.30pm


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

They've done nothing wrong. All his decisions were right, brave, necessary, etc. So why's he been sacked exactly? 

Is she going to last the day???


----------



## two sheds (Oct 14, 2022)

Errm from his letter he was sacked wasn't he? From her letter he resigned.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The Times’ Steven Swinford is also reporting that Chris Philp is out as the chief secretary to the Treasury.
> 
> Philp has been replaced by Ed Argar, Swinford says
> 
> spitfire, your balloon is required.



was he a minister though? I only do ministers.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Jeremy fucking Hunt, rises from the ashy swamp


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Errm from his letter he was sacked wasn't he? From her letter he resigned.


That's also his letter, though, according to the name at the bottom. So he wrote to himself to accept his decision to sack himself.

Can one sack oneself?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Errm from his letter he was sacked wasn't he? From her letter he resigned.



'Resign or be sacked' tends to blur the line TBF.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

spitfire said:


> was he a minister though? I only do ministers.



Junior Minister.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 14, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Errm from his letter he was sacked wasn't he? From her letter he resigned.



He was 'asked to resign' it seems. 

So sacked but in a way she can claim resigned when it suits her.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Junior Minister.



He gets a smol one then.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> This is off the bullshit scale.
> 
> View attachment 347106


Look who it's signed by (not the signature though)


----------



## two sheds (Oct 14, 2022)

Is that Kamikwazi letter real then? Or perhaps the tories do what scientology did (does?) get people to write their resignation letters as soon as they take up a job so there are no inconveniences.  Even they though don't have them to/from themselves.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> This is off the bullshit scale.
> 
> View attachment 347106


Maybe 'you have put the national interest rates first' would have been a more appropriate choice of words.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> This is off the bullshit scale.
> 
> View attachment 347106


wtf is that signature?


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Errm from his letter he was sacked wasn't he? From her letter he resigned.


Invited to resign, same difference. 

I'm surprised Jeremy Cunt agreed. Presumably he's driven her into the dirt, grovelling and pleading. I suppose it'll be back to that 'in office but not in power' cliche that Tory PM's of late have all ended up being described with.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> wtf is that signature?


That's the signature of someone who's had £3,000 of alcohol with their lunch.

It looks as if she's addressed the letter to someone called Krruvi, but whatever.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The Times’ Steven Swinford is also reporting that Chris Philp is out as the chief secretary to the Treasury.
> 
> Philp has been replaced by Ed Argar, Swinford says
> 
> spitfire, your balloon is required.


Chris Philip is being given the important new job of tracking down the Daily Stars lettuce and eating it before Truss is removed.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Is that Kamikwazi letter real then? Or perhaps the tories do what scientology did (does?) get people to write their resignation letters as soon as they take up a job so there are no inconveniences.  Even they though don't have them to/from themselves.



It's real, unless someone has hacked the No. 10 twitter account.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Press conference is expected at 2.30pm, I hope it's not just a statement, but a proper press conference with questions from the media pack, for maximum entertainment.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

What is that letter wtf is it even supposed to be it’s worse than the ‘unfortunately my child can’t do PE today because there is something wrong with her socks’ letters I used to forge with a pretend version my mums signature on.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> What is that letter wtf is it even supposed to be it’s worse than the ‘unfortunately my child can’t do PE today because there is something wrong with her socks’ letters I used to forge with a pretend version my mums signature on.


Yep. It's perfect.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 14, 2022)

I thought it was chaos when Major was fighting off his bastards - I thought it was chaos when Dave fell on his sword after Brexit - I thought it was Chaos when plotters removed May - but Truss is going full Hold my beer on all of them.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Can one sack oneself?


Certainly feels like we've seen it in spirit, if not procedure.

Multiple times, recently, tbh.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Press conference is expected at 2.30pm, I hope it's not just a statement, but a proper press conference with questions from the media pack, for maximum entertainment.


The first question should be what she had to promise Jeremy Hunt to get him to agree to take the job, because it can only have been that way round. She's PM in name only.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Press conference is expected at 2.30pm, I hope it's not just a statement, but a proper press conference with questions from the media pack, for maximum entertainment.


_Local _media, though...


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> The first question should be what she had to promise Jeremy Hunt to get him to agree to take the job, because it can only have been that way round. She's PM in name only.


I think Hunt is the price she thinks she's paid to stay. She'll be gone by next Friday.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I think Hunt is the price she thinks she's paid to stay. She'll be gone by next Friday.


They could make a film about these dramatic events, The Hunt for Red October.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> The first question should be what she had to promise Jeremy Hunt to get him to agree to take the job, because it can only have been that way round. She's PM in name only.


Well, see, he really likes the wallpaper in No. 10, so they're going to shift the living arrangements around.

Purely about personal interior design preference, though, their roles _absolutely_ remain what it says on their letterheads


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> wtf is that signature?


It's hard to sign things when you're crying, to be fair.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

spitfire said:


> He gets a smol one then.
> 
> View attachment 347109


Put it away again, he’s just been moved sideways (into Tony Benn’s old job)


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I think Hunt is the price she thinks she's paid to stay. She'll be gone by next Friday.


You think they’ll get rid of her now ? Why wouldn’t they (whoever in the party has some power left) just let her sit there pointlessly as a shit-magnet for now whilst they tell her what to do.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> You think they’ll get rid of her now ? Why wouldn’t they (whoever in the party has some power left) just let her sit there pointlessly as a shit-magnet for now whilst they tell her what to do.


Such thoughts are probably based in part on this sort of news that was coming out earlier:



> A group of senior Conservatives have decided to call publicly on Liz Truss to resign following her sacking of Kwasi Kwarteng as chancellor.
> 
> The party grandees held their discussions and made their decision to act after reports emerged the prime minister was planning to sack her chancellor, which has since been confirmed.
> 
> ...







__





						Loading…
					





					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Supine (Oct 14, 2022)

It’s really time for our Liz to deliver, now she’s performance managed out the bad apples. Great leadership.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> You think they’ll get rid of her now ? Why wouldn’t they (whoever in the party has some power left) just let her sit there pointlessly as a shit-magnet for now whilst they tell her what to do.


Yes, today was all about placating the markets before the BoE gilt buying cliff-edge came about by clearing out the extremists from the Treasury and, as the busted empty figurehead, her removal can wait until they've finished the factional horse-trading.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

Kind of feels like it doesn’t matter either way if it’s her or someone else sitting on the decomposing horse, it’s not like it’s going to get well.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Blimey, she's resigned!   



Only joking.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

elbows said:


> Such thoughts are probably based in part on this sort of news that was coming out earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I had seen that.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


>





Yes that’s because it’s a letter and you sign letters.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

What's the Yorkshire/Paisley/Norwich version of "Yous lot are fuckin' snakes, yeno!"? 

Cos I reckon that will be the overall content of this press conference.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Kind of feels like it doesn’t matter either way if it’s her or someone else sitting on the decomposing horse, it’s not like it’s going to get well.


No, these were her choices; they have to get rid.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 14, 2022)

Supine said:


> It’s really time for our Liz to deliver, now she’s performance managed out the bad apples. Great leadership.


Yes she really is a 7D Chess master


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Blimey, she's resigned!
> 
> 
> 
> Only joking.



BASTARD!


----------



## moochedit (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Blimey, she's resigned!
> 
> 
> 
> Only joking.


Bastard   why did i scroll down


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 14, 2022)

this is quite the big U of all U turns


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Yes that’s because it’s a letter and you sign letters.



You have missed the point completely, the name at the bottom of the letters are not that of the person signing, i.e. Truss wrote to Kwarteng, she signed it, his name is at the bottom.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

Are they keeping people waiting in the rain wtf


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

ice-is-forming said:


> Are they keeping people waiting in the rain wtf



Nope, it's in the briefing room.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> You have missed the point completely, the name at the bottom of the letters are not that of the person signing, i.e. Truss wrote to Kwarteng, she signed it, his name is at the bottom.


It must be fake surely?  Then again


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Corporation Tax to raise after all.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

For a moment there I thought she was about to resign


----------



## jakejb79 (Oct 14, 2022)

Hopefully she's forced out soon, she would never resign


----------



## moochedit (Oct 14, 2022)

I hope they don't u turn on the £66 and cap freeze


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Oh, questions, excellent.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 14, 2022)

Any questions? I'll start with a question from the Telegraph ( should be easy ). Why should you remain as prime minister he asks 🤣


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 14, 2022)

Pauses, hunts around for the Right Wing tap-ins...


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

Could you imagine asking her what she wanted to drink at the bar?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

Hilarious ...she picks the Torygraph, the Sun and state broadcaster and they all ask why she isn't going.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

painful to watch.


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 14, 2022)

It’s funny she has to listen to the aide whispering whose question to take next.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

The press are mauling her to death.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

Wow that was short


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> Pauses, hunts around for the Right Wing tap-ins...



And then fucks off as soon as she got through them.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Usual robotic replies from L2T2.

For some reason she looked shocked by the questions, then cut it short & fucked off.


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 14, 2022)

Fair to say she's lost the press pack


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 14, 2022)

Did she just mispronounce Peston’s name?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Christ, it's like one of those pull string toys but the manufacturers only put one response in the sound box.

Pull the string and get the same response, no matter what else is going on.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 14, 2022)

Can't watch as i'm at work but sounds funny


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

She practically ran off that stage before she'd finished her answer. No doubt straight towards a glass of neat whisky and a cry.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

£ tanking again


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 14, 2022)

Wow, I've never seen anyone appear so...weak. Let's hope she's gone by the end of the day.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> She practically ran off that stage before she'd finished her answer. No doubt straight towards a glass of neat whisky and a cry.


she fell into the arms of a researcher


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

mwgdrwg said:


> Wow, I've never seen anyone appear so...weak. Let's hope she's gone by the end of the day.


yeh but she'll be back tomorrow


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's also his letter, though, according to the name at the bottom. So he wrote to himself to accept his decision to sack himself.
> 
> Can one sack oneself?



I suppose that resigning is technically sacking one's self.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 14, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Did she just mispronounce Peston’s name?


Pissed on?


----------



## Apathy (Oct 14, 2022)

Hilarious tbf


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Did she just mispronounce Peston’s name?


pissed-on?


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Nope, it's in the briefing room.



I just caught the end of it, I was watching a live stream of the front of number 10, people are yelling & it's raining. I was waiting.  expecting Liz to step out the door and start talking. omg what am I like


----------



## hash tag (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> painful to watch.


Yes 🤣


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

Sam Coates on Sky News not impressed


----------



## hash tag (Oct 14, 2022)

I can't help feeling the knives are being sharpened


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sam Coates on Sky News not impressed



No one will impressed, including the Tory MPs.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

mwgdrwg said:


> Wow, I've never seen anyone appear so...weak. Let's hope she's gone by the end of the day.


I know I'm as politically ignorant as... well, our current prime minister, and the Tories are as brazen as... well, our current prime minister, but if that happened, _surely_ the Tories would have to call an election at that point?

_Surely_...?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Cunt is now in a difficult position.  Is he forced to pay lip service to her nonsense or does draw a line and go back to usual nasty tory shit?  Tricky positioning.  

Anyway, I think she's gone after tory MPs get their 'soundings' over the weekend.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know I'm as politically ignorant as... well, our current prime minister, and the Tories are as brazen as... well, our current prime minister, but if that happened, _surely_ the Tories would have to call an election at that point?
> 
> _Surely_...?


That is the one thing they will avoid doing


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

It was a very uncomfortable watch. All she's done today is stitched up one of her best friends - and for three fifths of fuck all.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

It’s pointed out that Hunt wanted corporation tax to be cut to 15%


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, I think she's gone after tory MPs get their 'soundings' over the weekend.


Each to their own I suppose


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

Seriously, that's both terrifying & hilarious from where I'm standing. What's going to happen next!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It was a very uncomfortable watch. All she's done today is stitched up one of her best friends - and for three fifths of fuck all.


And now former lovers


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It was a very uncomfortable watch. All she's done today is stitched up one of her best friends - and for three fifths of fuck all.


It's wonderful, isn't it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

"You turn if you want to... I will also u-turn if you want me to"


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

ice-is-forming said:


> Seriously, that's both terrifying & hilarious from where I'm standing. What's going to happen next!


Whatever it is will be epic


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know I'm as politically ignorant as... well, our current prime minister, and the Tories are as brazen as... well, our current prime minister, but if that happened, _surely_ the Tories would have to call an election at that point?
> 
> _Surely_...?



There's no requirement for them to do so, and with their majority, and the polling, not a chance.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It was a very uncomfortable watch. All she's done today is stitched up one of her best friends - and for three fifths of fuck all.


It makes no sense at all, even on its own terms, 'Today I took a bold decisive action to sack the person who carried out my plan for me, the plan that i have been going on about for months, any questions".


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Cunt is now in a difficult position.  Is he forced to pay lip service to her nonsense or does draw a line and go back to usual nasty tory shit?  Tricky positioning.
> 
> Anyway, I think she's gone after tory MPs get their 'soundings' over the weekend.


That's my guess as well.* The Star's lettuce is going to win. 

*See previous posts for the quality of my guesses.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> It was a very uncomfortable watch. All she's done today is stitched up one of her best friends - and for three fifths of fuck all.


Tory's gonna Tory.

One of the purest distillations of their guiding principles that's made it into the real world.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

It's a bit like watching games of thrones..without the swords.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> And now former lovers


Well I wouldn't hold that against her. Former lovers are for throwing to the lions if need be - that's why they're former. Friends are different.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2022)

Worst press conrerence ever.

Loved Krishnan Guru Murphy at the end shouting 'aren't you even going to apologise?' as she made for the door, and then visibly shaking his head on camera. She can't even pronounce 'Peston' - what was it "Pest-ON"?. What a fucking shambles.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> It makes no sense at all, even on its own terms, 'Today I took a bold decisive action to sack the person who carried out my plan for me, the plan that i have been going on about for months, any question".



I can't even ...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Worst press conrerence ever.



Not for long, just until her next one.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> There's no requirement for them to do so, and with their majority, and the polling, not a chance.


Aye, I know, I know...

It's just mildly mind-boggling to try and consider how they attempt to keep going in any meaningful way. Even if they don't care about credibility or whatever, it would still just be excruciating for them.

Christ, four chancellors in a year, and there's still two months left!


----------



## marty21 (Oct 14, 2022)

Was planning on watching the Press Conference , but my boss rang , we spoke for a few minutes about some stuff - and by the time the call ended - it was all over ffs


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Worst press conrerence ever.
> 
> Loved Krishnan Guru Murphy at the end shouting 'aren't you even going to apologise?' as she made for the door, and then visibly shaking his head on camera. She can't even pronounce 'Peston' - what was it "Pest-ON"?. What a fucking shambles.



I saw that 😅


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

ice-is-forming said:


> It's a bit like watching games of thrones..without the swords.


Or the... nope, there's just too many punchlines to choose from


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Was planning on watching the Press Conference , but my boss rang , we spoke for a few minutes about some stuff - and by the time the call ended - it was all over ffs



Top tip. Watch the live feed of Sky News on youtube, you can wind back a good half hour (or hour?) if you want to watch it in full.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

marty21 said:


> Was planning on watching the Press Conference , but my boss rang , we spoke for a few minutes about some stuff - and by the time the call ended - it was all over ffs



How long was it?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 14, 2022)

Leaked images from the next tory leadership hustings


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Top tip. Watch the live feed of Sky News on youtube, you can wind back a good half hour (or hour?) if you want to watch it in full.



I am watching that, you can go back 12 hours!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

ice-is-forming said:


> How long was it?



About  10 minutes in total.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

ice-is-forming said:


> How long was it?


Sounds like it was less then the press conference


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Aye, I know, I know...
> 
> It's just mildly mind-boggling to try and consider how they attempt to keep going in any meaningful way. Even if they don't care about credibility or whatever, it would still just be excruciating for them.
> 
> Christ, four chancellors in a year, and there's still two months left!


could yet be a year of three prime ministers


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

> *Liz Truss* only took four questions from the media during her very short press conference.
> 
> Sky News’ *Beth Rigby* says journalists are shocked, with one MP having told her that “even by her standards that was really bad”.  LINK


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

On the £/$ chart you can see the inflection point (14.39) when the dealers realised she wasn't going.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I am watching that, you can go back 12 hours!



Nice. An entire Chancellor ago!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

The next cabinet meeting.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's my guess as well.* The Star's lettuce is going to win.
> 
> *See previous posts for the quality of my guesses.


Of course the only issue is the 'soundings' will be from people who largely voted for her.  It might take a wee while for them to admit that they've fucked up themselves.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> The next cabinet meeting.


fucking shammer would be holding on to the bus rather than pushing it over


----------



## T & P (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> could yet be a year of three prime ministers


Hopefully there'll be four, then they could make a nice film about it. Four Prime Ministers and a Royal Funeral.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

T & P said:


> Four Prime Ministers and a Royal Funeral.


still time for another royal funeral


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> still time for another royal funeral


It's relentless positivity and optimism like this that keeps me coming back here.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Of course the only issue is the 'soundings' will be from people who largely voted for her.  It might take a wee while for them to admit that they've fucked up themselves.


Even the people who voted for her have decided already that it was a mistake, according to this yougov poll in the times. 

"Forty-eight per cent of Conservative supporters said the party had made the wrong choice of leader, against 28 per cent who said it made the right choice..' etc.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

BBC bod just suggested there's rumours about Sunak stepping in.

How would the Tory members who voted for Truss over him feel about that?

I mean, frankly, how are they feeling about their choice anyway?!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

T & P said:


> Hopefully there'll be four, then they could make a nice film about it. Four Prime Ministers and a Royal Funeral.


 Let’s round it up to 10 pms and 10 royal funerals

Unleash your dreams. It can be done


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> BBC bod just suggested there's rumours about Sunak stepping in.
> 
> How would the Tory members who voted for Truss over him feel about that?
> 
> I mean, frankly, how are they feeling about their choice anyway?!


Frankly, i hope that they're so shocked that they require an ambulance that doesn't turn up.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

The uk is a dumpster fire that never goes out


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Sky's Beth Rigby is saying she's already getting messages from Tory MPs saying the press conference was worst than they expected.

Not sure why, it was just about what i was expecting.  🤷‍♂️


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

The 30 year Bonds yields is up to 4.5% following  her speech


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Even the people who voted for her have decided already that it was a mistake, according to this yougov poll in the times.
> 
> "Forty-eight per cent of Conservative supporters said the party had made the wrong choice of leader, against 28 per cent who said it made the right choice..' etc.


True, though I was thinking of tory chairs of constituency parties, senior councillors and the like who they tend to get the mythical 'soundings' from. You are right though, she's fucking up according to just about everyone. Actually, no, correct that, _Everyone_.


----------



## maomao (Oct 14, 2022)

So Cunt is basically Prime Minister now right? He certainly holds more power than Truss.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 14, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Let’s round it up to 10 pms and 10 royal funerals
> 
> Unleash your dreams. It can be done


Prepare the guilotine!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Even the people who voted for her have decided already that it was a mistake, according to this yougov poll in the times.
> 
> "Forty-eight per cent of Conservative supporters said the party had made the wrong choice of leader, against 28 per cent who said it made the right choice..' etc.


That's not the people who voted for her. 

tbh I would think the very last people most tory MPs will be asking about this will be the people who voted for her.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> The 30 year Bonds yields is up to 4.5% following  her speech


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 14, 2022)

It’s here if you skip forward a few mins. She just keeps repeating herself robotically.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> True, though I was thinking of tory chairs of constituency parties, senior councillors and the like who they tend to get the mythical 'soundings' from. You are right though, she's fucking up according to just about everyone. Actually, no, correct that, _Everyone_.


The fun bit is that she has fucked up so monumentally by basically doing the exact thing that they as a party are supposed to be all about, ideologically, cut taxes shrink the state etc, she actually believed in it i think.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

maomao said:


> So Cunt is basically Prime Minister now right? He certainly holds more power than Truss.









(Hunt is obviously the direct-to-DVD rip-off version)


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

Sam Coates on Sky News is reading out messages from the Tory What's app group and they are fighting amongst themselves on there atm


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sam Coates on Sky News is reading out messages from the Tory What's app group and they are fighting amongst themselves on there atm



This is apparently Dorries replying to Blunt.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> BBC bod just suggested there's rumours about Sunak stepping in.
> 
> How would the Tory members who voted for Truss over him feel about that?
> 
> I mean, frankly, how are they feeling about their choice anyway?!



They're fucked. 
They were fucked as soon as Johnson went - all the sleaze and inefficiencies gravitated toward him.
If I were a Tory MP, I'd start putting feelers out for 'consultancy' roles somewhere.


----------



## maomao (Oct 14, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> They're fucked.
> They were fucked as soon as Johnson went - all the sleaze and inefficiencies gravitated toward him.
> If I were a Tory MP, I'd start putting feelers out for 'consultancy' roles somewhere.


They're fucked without Johnson because he was genuinely popular. The normally leaning left (for Romford, on policies) crowd at my local were bemoaning the way he'd been treated last week.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

now we are officially a banana republic, when does the military take over ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> now we are officially a banana republic, when does the military take over ?


yes we have no bananas


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> now we are officially a banana republic, when does the military take over ?


Are the Russians still off the coast of Cork?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 14, 2022)

I shouldn’t be , as this is a national tragedy, but I’m taking great pleasure from this


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> This is apparently Dorries replying to Blunt.



Probably leaked by Dorries. She's been calling for a GE for days now.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

Apart from the fact that it's really fucking appalling &  mindboggliny inept. I love that the corporations have to pay higher taxes now.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> yes we have no bananas


Speaking of bananas...



(It was his brother, I know, I know...)


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Probably leaked by Dorries. She's been calling for a GE for days now.


I cant my head around Nadine dorries being the sensible one here its staggering


----------



## kebabking (Oct 14, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> now we are officially a banana republic, when does the military take over ?



Unaccustomed as I am to public speaking....


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

The Guardian has a compilation of tweets from various reporters taking soundings from Tory MPs, it's very entertaining, unless you are Truss.

Click for a laugh.


----------



## T & P (Oct 14, 2022)

If I were Truss I'd have appointed Larry the Cat as the next Chancellor. If you got Larry to dictate economic policy by getting to choose between two boxes containing a dead mouse, a bit like Paul the Octopus during the 2010 World Cup, I reckon he would do a far better job at running the economy than Hunt.

And everybody loves Larry, so her personal ratings would have gone up a bit.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

corporations pay 30% tax in aus.

Good U turn


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

If these weren't so expensive i'd get one, memorabilia of a crumbling civilisation and all. 








						Liz Truss Mug
					

Liz Truss Mug




					shop.conservatives.com


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 14, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> They're fucked.
> They were fucked as soon as Johnson went - all the sleaze and inefficiencies gravitated toward him.
> If I were a Tory MP, I'd start putting feelers out for 'consultancy' roles somewhere.


Who would employ them?

Politics has degenerated into representation by people, who would struggle in an open contest to be custodian of a one stall urinal.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> If these weren't so expensive i'd get one, memorabilia of a crumbling civilisation and all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that price for a gross? Post paid?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Who would employ them?


Sooooooo many firms.


----------



## andysays (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> If these weren't so expensive i'd get one, memorabilia of a crumbling civilisation and all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you really want one, just wait a few weeks (or even a few days) and they'll be selling them off at reduced price.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I cant my head around Nadine dorries being the sensible one here its staggering


As another tory pointed out, it's easy for her to say as she has a second income as a best-selling novelist.

yes, _Nadine Dorries_ is a best-selling novelist. 

the world makes no sense.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

maomao said:


> So Cunt is basically Prime Minister now right? He certainly holds more power than Truss.


Fuck me, _I_ hold more power than truss.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> If these weren't so expensive i'd get one, memorabilia of a crumbling civilisation and all.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am a grown up.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

Who will she address her letter of resignation to?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 14, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Who will she address her letter of resignation to?


Charles III


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 14, 2022)

I just heard on the radio she said she's determined to continue as prime minister. I think we've heard shit like that before.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

Everyone's determined until reality punches them in the face.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> I just heard on the radio she said she's determined to continue as prime minister. I think we've heard shit like that before.


Unassailable etc


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Everyone's determined until reality punches them in the face.


“Every single corpse on Everest was once an extremely motivated person”


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> “Every single corpse on Everest was once an extremely motivated person”


Certain religious and/or free-market types: "not motivated enough!".


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> *Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng*: "not motivated enough!".


cfy

While we're laughing, we should never forget the level of cuntitude represented by the vermin. We're fortunate I guess that this current lot are also deeply stupid.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Charles III


When he shook hands with her:_ 'you killed my mama, I kill you back'_


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Who would employ them?



Blair got middle east envoy, so anything could happen.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Fuck me, if they'd banged the queen on a ventilator, she could have seen out another PM!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Fuck me, if they'd banged the queen on a ventilator, she could have seen out another PM!


we'd never have seen that dear oh dear video tho


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 14, 2022)

There's a sense of a dirty bath, rapidly disappearing down a plug hole. The swirl of water getting faster and louder. Not just Truss, but all of these cunts.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Fuck me, if they'd banged the queen on a ventilator, she could have seen out another PM!


You're forgetting, of course, that Lizz Truss was the ine that killed the Queen.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> You're forgetting, of course, that Lizz Truss was the ine that killed the Queen.


Your Royal Highness Kwasi is innocent I did it I am evil and I therefore resign Elisabeth Truss


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

I've recalibrated my models and now predict she's toast sooner rather than later.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> I've recalibrated my models and now predict she's toast sooner rather than later.


Yep, markets today, politics next week after they've all had their ears chewed off in constituency this weekend.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> we'd never have seen that dear oh dear video tho


'_Flunkey! Is that bloody woman still here_?'
- Erm, let me check, my liege. Yes, she's just sacked her chancellor, but she's carrying on as PM... oh, no, sorry, she's gone'.
'_Ah, good, she's had her chips then_.
- But no sausages...


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> I've recalibrated my models and now predict she's toast sooner rather than later.


I'm peckish now, I could do with some toast.


----------



## donkyboy (Oct 14, 2022)

fancy having the second shortest stint as chancellor. sacked after 30 odd days. that has to be embarrassing.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> fancy having the second shortest stint as chancellor. sacked after 30 odd days. that has to be embarrassing.


his after dinner speaking career prospects have been totally torpedoed


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> his after dinner speaking career prospects have been totally torpedoed


As if he could ever. The droning dull sounding fuck


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> As if he could ever. The droning dull sounding fuck


I've no idea what he sounds like tbh.


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> I've no idea what he sounds like tbh.


He sounds like a dull drone.


----------



## T & P (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

I think he'll be back in some big job in the party again soon, his zeal undimmed. Today's episode was a lot more damaging for Truss than for him imo.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> He sounds like a dull drone.


so does Theresa May and she makes a shitload from the after dinner circuit so I guess they don't really care about how interesting you sound.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

So when is this thread going to fulfil its aspiration?

I'm going for 11am on Monday.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> So when is this thread going to fulfil its aspiration?
> 
> I'm going for 11am on Monday.


Reckon it will be sooner


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

Monday is too soon I think. Maybe a week or so.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 14, 2022)

5pm next Friday gmt


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> Monday is too soon I think. Maybe a week or so.


Maybe, or possibly a bit before that; remember how organised Sunak's (expensive) team are.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 14, 2022)

She is stuffed for Christmas.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

What is the idea they’re going to just give the job to sunak or someone after making the country sit through months and months of that ridiculous performance of a leadership election? Idk, think that might be even more damaging than leaving her in place.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

There are no undamaging options for them.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> so does Theresa May and she makes a shitload from the after dinner circuit so I guess they don't really care about how interesting you sound.



TBH I think the audiences for that kind of thing prefer someone dull-sounding - the younger ones are busy getting hammered and the older ones are ready for a nap.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 14, 2022)

Team Truss might just be able to swing her survival until 2025 if they blackmail the country by putting all its cash reserves on long odds


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> TBH I think the audiences for that kind of thing prefer someone dull-sounding - the younger ones are busy getting hammered and the older ones are ready for a nap.


shame for Kwarteng then, sounds like it would have been the ideal gig for him. Sadly a top tier political career that consists of crashing your country's economy then getting sacked in the space of a couple of weeks isn't the kind of record that will have the bookings rolling in.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> What is the idea they’re going to just give the job to sunak or someone *after making the country sit through months and months of that ridiculous performance of a leadership election?* Idk, think that might be even more damaging than leaving her in place.


That may be exactly the line they use.

"The country doesn't want more uncertainty", he was the next candidate in the vote, etc, etc...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 14, 2022)

hash tag said:


> She is stuffed for Christmas.



She's certainly a turkey.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Team Truss might just be able to swing her survival until 2025 if they blackmail the country by putting all its cash reserves on long odds
> 
> View attachment 347147


There's some joke about shorting the careers of Kwarteng and Truss here, but I don't know politics or economics well enough to make it work.

Of course, neither did they.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Team Truss might just be able to swing her survival until 2025 if they blackmail the country by putting all its cash reserves on long odds
> 
> View attachment 347147


I'm not great with odds, so to simplify, how much would I get back from a tenner on each one?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> What is the idea they’re going to just give the job to sunak or someone after making the country sit through months and months of that ridiculous performance of a leadership election? Idk, think that might be even more damaging than leaving her in place.


No chance of another leadership contest. It would need to be a coronation like they did with May. I guess that could take a bit of time to organise but they've done the first bit by getting Cunt in as chancellor. Truss's position is now untenable.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

Some fun quotes.



> Ms Truss's statement has intensified speculation about her future, with some Tory MPs sharing their thoughts with the BBC."She will have to resign," said one senior backbencher said, adding "she is worse than Corbyn", referring to the former Labour leader.
> 
> A former cabinet minister said "we cannot go on like this indefinitely", adding the "electorate are not going to forgive us" if Tory MPs oust another prime minister.
> 
> ...











						This is difficult, Liz Truss admits after major U-turn
					

Liz Truss reverses her plan to scrap a business tax rise but vows to deliver economic growth.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I'm not great with odds, so to simplify, how much would I get back from a tenner on each one?


If you can still get that 8/11 on this year, those look like good value to me. Odds will be changing by the minute, though. 

If you put a tenner on at 8/11, you'd win £7.27.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> Monday is too soon I think. Maybe a week or so.



I'm gonna call it. She wont' go before mid nov(after the budget report thing)  and if survives til Christmas, is there for the next year at least.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> (Hunt is obviously the direct-to-DVD rip-off version)


Lets hope he meets the same end


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

_Sadness in her eyes_

Can't deny that this cheered my mood:


----------



## Supine (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

"it is now widely accepted that <insert action taken by Truss> made things worse"


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No chance of another leadership contest. It would need to be a coronation like they did with May. I guess that could take a bit of time to organise but they've done the first bit by getting Cunt in as chancellor. Truss's position is now untenable.


Oh yeah I know we’re not getting a leadership contest (not a publicly visible one anyway). But I think they might just leave her there as a shit-sponge until a bit nearer to election time and only then bury her. Untenable means nothing anymore.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Oh yeah I know we’re not getting a leadership contest (not a publicly visible one anyway). But I think they might just leave her there as a shit-sponge until a bit nearer to election time and only then bury her. Untenable means nothing anymore.


We'll see. I often call this stuff wrongly, but it feels like momentum is building. Hence I think she'll go on Monday.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> If you can still get that 8/11 on this year, those look like good value to me. Odds will be changing by the minute, though.
> 
> If you put a tenner on at 8/11, you'd win £7.27.



Ah so my hastily thought up, and deeply ironic, plan to get out of the cost of living crisis is flawed? I see...


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> Oh yeah I know we’re not getting a leadership contest (not a publicly visible one anyway). But I think they might just leave her there as a shit-sponge until a bit nearer to election time and only then bury her. Untenable means nothing anymore.


As Faisal Islam said earlier she has sacked the Chancellor she herself chose just three weeks ago and sacked him for agreeing with her.Plainly she has got to go the only question is why she hasn't already resigned. Maybe as Bimble suggests they won't let her resign?


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> "it is now widely accepted that <insert action taken by Truss> made things worse"


38 days, by the way.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

‘Clearly she has got to go’ just means nothing at all though, does it. Saying things like that it’s just archaic like you think integrity or competence or just not being a total disaster are somehow expected of the PM don’t be daft.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 14, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> now we are officially a banana republic, when does the military take over ?


They couldn't do any fucking worse.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 14, 2022)

Isn’t the usual thing to allow MPs to spend a weekend ‘taking soundings in their constituency’? That way they can claim the decision is based on feedback from members. Which it rarely is. 

So Monday could be a thing.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

bimble said:


> ‘Clearly she has got to go’ just means nothing at all though, does it. Saying things like that are just archaic like you think integrity or competence or just not being a total disaster are somehow expected of the PM don’t be daft.


If that is in reply to me I obviously wouldn't be expecting integrity noone expects that from any member of that party but her credibility is utterly and irrevocably shot.


----------



## bimble (Oct 14, 2022)

Yeah you’re right they will need to get rid, she’s too embarrassing, that press conference must have felt humiliating for all of them.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 14, 2022)

Personal I don't think she will go anytime soon. But it will be hilarious if the Leadership contest lasted longer than her stint as PM.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Personal I don't think she will go anytime soon. But it will be hilarious if the Leadership contest lasted longer than her stint as PM.


Its already hilarious


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 14, 2022)

T & P said:


>


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> Isn’t the usual thing to allow MPs to spend a weekend ‘taking soundings in their constituency’? That way they can claim the decision is based on feedback from members. Which it rarely is.
> 
> So Monday could be a thing.


In this case 'sounding out the markets' will also be a thing.

Given her ideology it is so very fitting that the invisible hand of the marketplace has given her the finger.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2022)

are they're any mp's arguing that she should stay?


----------



## LDC (Oct 14, 2022)

OMG just watched the press conference. Car crash. One of my stroke patients today would have given a better and more convincing speech.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

not on the airwaves i think


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2022)

LDC said:


> OMG just watched the press conference. Car crash. One of stroke patients today would have given a better and more convincing speech.



Yeah its hard to see how she could survive after that. And as if the press were not already against her enough, only letting 4 of them ask a question further adds to her woe.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> are they're any mp's arguing that she should stay?


There a few not many


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> are they're any mp's arguing that she should stay?


Douglas Ross.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> are they're any mp's arguing that she should stay?


There was one on the phone radio saying she was awful crap and he's dreadfully disappointed and she absolutely should stay. Think it might have been Chope.


----------



## JimW (Oct 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> are they're any mp's arguing that she should stay?


Labour front bench?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2022)

Raheem said:


> There was one on the phone radio saying she was awful crap and he's dreadfully disappointed and she absolutely should stay. Think it might have been Chope.


 the political equivalent of jimmy Saville tweeting his support.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 14, 2022)

elbows said:


> Yeah its hard to see how she could survive after that. And as if the press were not already against her enough, only letting 4 of them ask a question further adds to her woe.


Letting them ask a question is probably too much credit, it's not like her "answers" were in the same ballpark as what was being asked. The journalists might as well have been asking an empty podium.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 14, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Letting them ask a question is probably too much credit, it's not like her "answers" were in the same ballpark as what was being asked. The journalists might as well have been asking an empty podium.


If I'd been the last one, my question would have been "Can you say that thing about economic discipline again?"


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 14, 2022)

"If you had to make the hard choice - big fish, little fish, or cardboard box?"


----------



## SysOut (Oct 14, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> now we are officially a banana republic, when does the military take over ?


A banana republic is a country which is de facto owned by a corporation, e.g. United Fruit and Guatamala:


> The integrity of John Foster Dulles' "anti-Communist" motives has been disputed, since Dulles and his law firm of Sullivan & Cromwell negotiated the land giveaways to the United Fruit Company in Guatemala and Honduras. John Foster Dulles' brother, Allen Dulles, who was head of the CIA under Eisenhower, also did legal work for United Fruit. The Dulles brothers and Sullivan & Cromwell were on the United Fruit payroll for thirty-eight years.  Recent research has uncovered the names of multiple other government officials who received benefits from United Fruit:
> 
> 
> > John Foster Dulles, who represented United Fruit while he was a law partner at Sullivan & Cromwell – he negotiated that crucial United Fruit deal with Guatemalan officials in the 1930s – was Secretary of State under Eisenhower; his brother Allen, who did legal work for the company and sat on its board of directors, was head of the CIA under Eisenhower; Henry Cabot Lodge, who was America's ambassador to the UN, was a large owner of United Fruit stock; Ed Whitman, the United Fruit PR man, was married to Ann Whitman, Dwight Eisenhower's personal secretary. You could not see these connections until you could – and then you could not stop seeing them.











						United Fruit Company - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




There's a lot to be learnt there - not least the the jokes about "EU" banana laws ( laws proposed by Major & Chirac to help ex-colonies to have plantations independent of the U.S.banana companies) spread by the U.S.A. owned Murdoch papers such as the Sun...

The commonly held idea that Banana Republics are corrupt and unstable is a result of the CIA making them like that. They simply changed uncooperative leaders by coup d'états, corruption assuring a whole queue of willing successors and malleable armed forces and police.



> *You could not see these connections until you could – and then you could not stop seeing them.*



check out eastern europe as well


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 14, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


>



Such a tease.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 14, 2022)

Cid said:


> I genuinely don't understand how someone can be this shit.



Just when you thought she'd reached her lowest point, she finds new subterranean levels of incompetence, ineffectiveness and imbecility.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

So Cameron lasted longer than May  who lasted longer than Johnson, who will have lasted longer than truss. Is this what they mean by accelerationism,  that political leaders arrive and depart at an increasing speed?


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> So Cameron lasted longer than May  who lasted longer than Johnson, who will have lasted longer than truss. Is this what they mean by accelerationism,  that political leaders arrive and depart at an increasing speed?


Won't be long and the next PM will resign before appointment. It's the Thick of It.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



it's very hard for her to regain what she never had


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> Won't be long and the next PM will resign before appointment. It's the Thick of It.


that was whitehall business as usual compared to truss's time


----------



## SysOut (Oct 14, 2022)

The Tories could avoid an election by making Starmer PM of a Tory government.
Ramsay Macdonald:


> From 1931 to 1935, he headed a National Government dominated by the Conservative Party and supported by only a few Labour members.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> are they're any mp's arguing that she should stay?


197 I think. All Labour.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 14, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


>



I think what's different to previous dying administrations is that whilst there will be plenty who don't want to trigger another leadership contest, just about none of them will be actively thinking she should stay.  Just about the only reason for not kicking her out is that she's actually in post.  It could equally be a tube of verruca cream.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 14, 2022)

Wilf said:


> I think what's different to previous dying administrations is that whilst there will be plenty who don't want to trigger another leadership contest, just about none of them will be actively thinking she should stay.  Just about the only reason for not kicking her out is that she's actually in post.  It could equally be a tube of verruca cream.


either they stab her now or they stick with her till the election.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 14, 2022)

Who are these 8%?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Who are these 8%?



Die hard tories


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 14, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Die hard tories


Making a ham-fist with a foot-in-mouth


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 14, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> "If you had to make the hard choice - big fish, little fish, or cardboard box?"



As leadership slates go it's not great but they're all an improvement on the incumbent.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

In the bullshit of life, there is always sweetcorn of truth.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 14, 2022)




----------



## Sue (Oct 14, 2022)

ska invita said:


> The view from abroad is pretty agreed on that I think....especially in europe...even my friend in Istanbul (where Turkey is increasingly sinking into the mud, 83% inflation) takes pity when we chat on the phone.


I was at a work thing in Europe with a load of people from various countries this last week. I kept getting asked what was going on with our government/economy. All  I could do was 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️ .


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> who's counting?



Nobody left in the tory ranks who can count that high.


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 14, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


>



Ironic Brady is in the birthplace of democracy and yet when he comes back our new prime minister will probably end up being chosen by a few hundred MPs


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 14, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> We'll see. I often call this stuff wrongly, but it feels like momentum is building. Hence I think she'll go on Monday.


I reckon you're right.
Not that her going will make anything better, mind.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 14, 2022)

Have missed a page or two, but have we had this?


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 14, 2022)

Sue said:


> I was at a work thing in Europe with a load of people from various countries this last week. I kept getting asked what was going on with our government/economy. All  I could do was 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️ .


Yep yesterday a Fijian and a Papuan were telling me how fascinated they are by British politics right now and how they feel sorry for me. I keep expecting my Ukrainian colleague to do the same.


----------



## Sue (Oct 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> So Cameron lasted longer than May  who lasted longer than Johnson, who will have lasted longer than truss. Is this what they mean by accelerationism,  that political leaders arrive and depart at an increasing speed?


This is like one of those 'If a train leaves Edinburgh at 12pm and travels at 60km and another train leaves London at 12:45 etc' problems.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 14, 2022)

According to Geri Scott of The Times, Kwasi Kwarteng learnt he was being dismissed after reading a report by ⁦
@thetimes ⁩ as he was being driven to Downing Street.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 14, 2022)

Well the Saturday Newspapers So far in is not good reading  for the PM


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 14, 2022)

stone cold classic


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> According to Geri Scott of The Times, Kwasi Kwarteng learnt he was being dismissed after reading a report by ⁦
> @thetimes ⁩ as he was being driven to Downing Street.



At which point he turned to his driver and said "we won't need to be stopping by Marks & Spencers after all, Kwasi's Friday Kupkakes is cancelled this week".


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 14, 2022)

Opening credits to newsnight was classic. Liz cackling pressing the demolition button with kwarteng being shown to the sounds of Its no sacrifice.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 14, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> According to Geri Scott of The Times, Kwasi Kwarteng learnt he was being dismissed after reading a report by ⁦
> @thetimes ⁩ as he was being driven to Downing Street.



What did he expect? 
No 10 is a bit public for Netflix and Chill.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 14, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> What did he expect?
> No 10 is a bit public for Netflix and Chill.


Newsnight again quoting gloomy unnamed Tory insider "you can't unburn toast".....true dat


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 14, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> stone cold classic




I feel OK about enjoying this because Truss is fucking vile.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 14, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Ironic Brady is in the birthplace of democracy and yet when he comes back our new prime minister will probably end up being chosen by a few hundred MPs




The ancient Greeks would absolutely approve of only rich landowners voting  who to run the country, the issue would be the women voting.

They might also have questions about the good character aspect of all of them


----------



## Raheem (Oct 14, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Newsnight again quoting gloomy unnamed Tory insider "you can't unburn toast".....true dat


I've seen it done on YouTube, so there.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 15, 2022)

Raheem said:


> I've seen it done on YouTube, so there.


Damn you for leading me to youtube to look, but I was expecting some high tech solution, transforming the carbonised stuff to something less burnt. But no, instead we get this entirely unexpected, off the wall, once in a generation solution:


----------



## stdP (Oct 15, 2022)

Avid readers of Dame Silvie Crin will no doubt be looking forward to the next instalment of _The King of Troubles_ whereupon Sir Alan Fitztightly, bearer of the Regal Loofah, visits the bathing room of the newly anointed Sovereign and informs him that a head of state has died. On stage.



Zapp Brannigan said:


> Q: "Ms Truss, do you agree with Mr Rees-Mogg that the mini-budget had nothing to do with the markets tanking?
> 
> A: "People were facing spiralling energy bills.  This government has acted decisively to help these ordinary people facing spiralling energy bills."
> 
> ...



Zapp's post above re: PMQs is even more starkly relevant today as its the same fucking mantra every time her mouth moves. She'll be seen, wandering dazed around the fens for years to come like some sort of shambling ghoul, mumbling the same piffle.

Personally I'm just sad that she might not last long enough for any of the papers to use my _Truss-DUP Turkey_ headline to become seasonally relevant.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 15, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Damn you for leading me to youtube to look, but I was expecting some high tech solution, transforming the carbonised stuff to something less burnt. But no, instead we get this entirely unexpected, off the wall, once in a generation solution:



That youtuber is going to wonder why his video's views suddenly increased, maybe even doubled, on the 15th of October 2022.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 15, 2022)




----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 15, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> In the bullshit of life, there is always sweetcorn of truth.



How fucking dare you


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

Dom Traynor said:


> Yep yesterday a Fijian and a Papuan were telling me how fascinated they are by British politics right now and how they feel sorry for me. I keep expecting my Ukrainian colleague to do the same.


I had the same thing in Mexico City in July 2016. The chaotic UK was the talk of the town, people were unanimously astonished. At one point, I was so fed up, I started responding to the question 'American?' (from bar staff or waiters etc) with a mid Atlantic 'yeah', just so I wouldn't have to get into yet more of the 'what is going on in your country?' commentary and the 'its like something in Mexico' observations. God only knows what they'll be saying in 2022.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 15, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> How fucking dare you


Yep, that's fucking fumed me how she's used that bollocks to further her career.
And if there's any deprivation in West Yorkshire her party is responsible. 
Let's hope Steve's comment was sarcastic


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

The Newsnight opening, already mentioned here, was very well done. Really well edited clips to match the lyrics. I enjoyed it so much I watched it twice.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Yep, that's fucking fumed me how she's used that bollocks to further her career.
> And if there's any deprivation in West Yorkshire her party is responsible.
> Let's hope Steve's comment was sarcastic


I thought Leeds was meant to be quite prosperous, even in the 90's when she'd have been a teen. Harvey Nichols first outpost and all that. She talks about it - and her (by all accounts but hers very decent) high school - as if it was Detroit.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 15, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I thought Leeds was meant to be quite prosperous, even in the 90's when she'd have been a teen. Harvey Nichols first outpost and all that. She talks about it - and her (by all accounts but hers very decent) high school - as if it was Detroit.


It's all bollocks. She was from a wealthy part of Leeds.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> It's all bollocks. She was from a wealthy part of Leeds.


Yes. It seems so ungrateful to lie about the upbringing people who love you provided - I could understand if she had some hideous trauma that required a great reset, but evidently not. It's a real kick in the teeth to go around telling everyone how deprived you were when you weren't. And I thought her father was a professor or something along those lines, so it's unlikely she was culturally deprived either. I wonder if he's proud.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 15, 2022)

Oh, we're are on page 101, which is ironic as the Tory party is about to send Truss to Room 101.

I mean, she's clearly toast, even the Mail has caught up with everyone else, and done a massive U-turn having supported her for the leadership, and celebrated the mini-budget.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 15, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> How fucking dare you





Orang Utan said:


> How fucking dare you


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

The Daily Mail shouldn't be allowed to slink off to blend into the crowd of the sane and the innocent - not after cheering her to the rafters throughout the contest, and after the budget they fêted her for.


----------



## Storm Fox (Oct 15, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, we're are on page 101, which is ironic as the Tory party is about to send Truss to Room 101.
> 
> I mean, she's clearly toast, even the Mail has caught up with everyone else, and done a massive U-turn having supported her for the leadership, and celebrated the mini-budget.
> 
> View attachment 347221



But the ever deluded Express still supports her, just


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 15, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> But the ever deluded Express still supports her, just



Last one standing.


----------



## ice-is-forming (Oct 15, 2022)

Truss is not for quitting
The lady's not for turning

Clowns


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

Damning stuff. 









						The Liz Truss Travesty Becomes Britain’s Humiliation
					

Even by British traditions of political failure, this prime minister’s brief tenure has been a spectacular disaster.




					www.theatlantic.com
				




_An old friend who died recently once told me a story about economic decline that stuck with me. He had traveled the world as a journalist for Reuters and said Argentina was the best place he’d ever lived. But that was before its collapse into chaos, populism, and crisis in the late 1990s. I last saw him in 2019; he was living in Brussels then, but told me that he worried some similar decline was happening in Britain.

Back then, I dismissed his fears. I’d lived through the turmoil of Afghanistan and Iraq, the global financial crisis and Brexit. I’d seen Scotland coming close to seceding from the country, David Cameron’s austerity leading to calamity, Boris Johnson’s turbulent administration, and Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour to electoral oblivion. But through it all, Britain had plodded along, not exactly prospering as it once had but inching forward nonetheless. Its institutions did their job, the constitution held up, people’s lives went on much as they always had.

And then Liz Truss came along._


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 15, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> _I’d seen Scotland coming close to seceding from the country, David Cameron’s austerity leading to calamity, Boris Johnson’s turbulent administration, and Jeremy Corbyn leading Labour to electoral oblivion.  _



All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in drizzle.


----------



## bimble (Oct 15, 2022)

what does 'supply side reforms' mean?
eta oh found it.


----------



## Voley (Oct 15, 2022)

Just reading some of the quotes from Tory MP's in this BBC article this morning and I'm beginning to think that this might be a time's up thread that's spot on.

"we cannot go on like this indefinitely"

"Dissatisfaction is so high in the parliamentary party"

"hanging by a thread"

"a mega-disaster"

Normally quite good at closing ranks when things are going badly, the Tories, but not right now. Even with a bunch of those quotes being from anonymous sources, it's pretty dire for them.









						Tory MPs turn on Liz Truss after turbulent day
					

Many MPs are unhappy with the prime minister after she fired her chancellor and announced a second U-turn.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 15, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> But the ever deluded Express still supports her, just


To be fair, they still think Maddie is alive, so...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

Voley said:


> Just reading some of the quotes from Tory MP's in this BBC article this morning and I'm beginning to think that this might be a time's up thread that's spot on.
> 
> "we cannot go on like this indefinitely"
> 
> ...


They're much better at closing ranks when they all have a stake in the decision-making process of the government but with one exception the cabinet's full of truss's talentless chums. And when that's the case and there's no impending election  to force them onside, many mps will be vocal about their disillusionment


----------



## Cid (Oct 15, 2022)

Apparently it's the anniversary of David Amess' death, little surprised she didn't come out with 'Today, we are _all _Amess' or something.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

Cid said:


> Apparently it's the anniversary of David Amess' death, little surprised she didn't come out with 'Today, we are _all _Amess' or something.


Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 15, 2022)

Cid said:


> Apparently it's the anniversary of David Amess' death, little surprised she didn't come out with 'Today, we are _all _Amess' or something.


She is already exploiting it.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 15, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> It's all bollocks. She was from a wealthy part of Leeds.


yep. Roundhay - leafy middle class suburb and her parents were senior academics. Although certainly having some rough areas, Leeds in the 90s  was not some smoke blackened, declining, post industrial ruin - but - like Manchester -  well along the road of regenerating itself - particularly the financial and high end retail sector . Plus massive student population and huge club scene. So yeah- utterly disingenuous wank from Truss.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me


Something half heard on R4 about Truss being at Chequers.No idea what that is about but it sounds a bit like Hunt having put her on gardening leave.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Something half heard on R4 about Truss being at Chequers.No idea what that is about but it sounds a bit like Hunt having put her on gardening leave.


No it doesn't.


----------



## xenon (Oct 15, 2022)

Voley said:


> Just reading some of the quotes from Tory MP's in this BBC article this morning and I'm beginning to think that this might be a time's up thread that's spot on.
> 
> "we cannot go on like this indefinitely"
> 
> ...



Hot air from moaning cowards.

She'll survive til mid Nov and if then gets to Christmas, the next 18 months.


----------



## xenon (Oct 15, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> yep. Roundhay - leafy middle class suburb and her parents were senior academics. Although certainly having some rough areas, Leeds in the 90s  was not some smoke blackened, declining, post industrial ruin - but - like Manchester -  well along the road of regenerating itself - particularly the financial and high end retail sector . Plus massive student population and huge club scene. So yeah- utterly disingenuous wank from Truss.



Risible isn't it. I considered Leeds (and Sheffield) for uni in the 90s. It's not like it had a rep as some crime riven wasteland. And as if the daughter of senior academics would be living in the projects...


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> She'll survive til mid Nov and if then gets to Christmas, the next 18 months.



There is no way I'd make that prediction right now. She could very easily be gone in the coming week. Leaders do not normally survive this sort of crisis, this sort of press coverage, this level of party discontent. The main questions in my mind are mostly just to do with the exact timing, and I would not rule out her downfall on any particular day over the next week. What the markets do when they next open will probably have some influence on the timing too.

She threw a grenade, it bounced back and exploded right next to her. She then crawled onto a mine. Her career and credibility are scattered over a wide area, and its only a question of waiting for the parts to fall to earth.


----------



## maomao (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> There is no way I'd make that prediction right now. She could very easily be gone in the coming week. Leaders do not normally survive this sort of crisis, this sort of press coverage, this level of party discontent. The main questions in my mind are mostly just to do with the exact timing, and I would not rule out her downfall on any particular day over the next week. What the markets do when they next open will probably have some influence on the timing too.
> 
> She threw a grenade, it bounced back and exploded right next to her. She then crawled onto a mine. Her career and credibility and scattered over a wide area, and its only a question of waiting for the parts to fall to earth.



But without an actual mechanism for getting rid of her we're reliant on her own sense of decency or sense of shame. And she's Liz Truss.


----------



## xenon (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> There is no way I'd make that prediction right now. She could very easily be gone in the coming week. Leaders do not normally survive this sort of crisis, this sort of press coverage, this level of party discontent. The main questions in my mind are mostly just to do with the exact timing, and I would not rule out her downfall on any particular day over the next week. What the markets do when they next open will probably have some influence on the timing too.



I am being a bit cavalier prediction wise just for the hell of it. But I do think she'll survive the next few weeks through inertia and no clear path to getting rid or replacing her. Rather than gaining or consolidating support. The markets will settle down in the meantime which will help her. Mid Nov I see as the zenith / culmination of this phase.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> Risible isn't it. I considered Leeds (and Sheffield) for uni in the 90s. It's not like it had a rep as some crime riven wasteland. And as if the daughter of senior academics would be living in the projects...


She'd likely be a better person now if she had been


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> I am being a bit cavalier prediction wise just for the hell of it. But I do think she'll survive the next few weeks through inertia and no clear path to getting rid or replacing her. Rather than gaining or consolidating support. The markets will settle down in the meantime which will help her. Mid Nov I see as the zenith / culmination of this phase.


There may be no clear path to forcing her out. But you can imagine mps with sadly metaphorical machetes clearing a trail towards that


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> I am being a bit cavalier prediction wise just for the hell of it. But I do think she'll survive the next few weeks through inertia and no clear path to getting rid or replacing her. Rather than gaining or consolidating support. The markets will settle down in the meantime which will help her. Mid Nov I see as the zenith / culmination of this phase.


Whereas to some of us it seems inevitable she will be on the front pages from now until she does do maomaos decent thing.


----------



## xenon (Oct 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> There may be no clear path to forcing her out. But you can imagine mps with sadly metaphorical machetes clearing a trail towards that



Do you think they can all agree on her replacement though? That has to be sorted out first before more are minded to start hacking away I reckon.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> Do you think they can all agree on her replacement though? That has to be sorted out first before more are minded to start hacking away I reckon.


I think you set the bar too high when you say it has to be unanimous


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

xenon said:


> I am being a bit cavalier prediction wise just for the hell of it. But I do think she'll survive the next few weeks through inertia and no clear path to getting rid or replacing her. Rather than gaining or consolidating support. The markets will settle down in the meantime which will help her. Mid Nov I see as the zenith / culmination of this phase.



The difference between our guesses about the coming weeks may well boil down to the markets. Perhaps they will calm down, perhaps they wont. But factor in that the timing of ditching the chancellor and u-turning on another tax cut yesterday was because yesterday was supposed to be the last day that the bank of england were intervening with a particular market-stabilisation measure. If what was announced yesterday was not deemed to be a suitable replacement for the bank of englands intervention, then there will be more chaos on Monday. That may lead to the bank of england having to step in again. But I suppose it could also lead to stuff such as Truss being forced to announce her resignation 'for the sake of the national interest', if that is deemed to be the only market calming measure that will work and is palatable to our establishment.


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## andysays (Oct 15, 2022)

maomao said:


> But without an actual mechanism for getting rid of her we're reliant on her own sense of decency or sense of shame. And she's Liz Truss.



There *are* mechanisms for getting rid of her though.

There is the formal mechanism of letters from MPs leading to a vote of no confidence, and there are also informal mechanisms of senior party figures having a word, persuading her that her position is untenable and she should step aside "for the good of the party", probably dressed up as the good of the country.

I'm not saying either of those things is about to happen, but the mechanisms certainly exist.


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## bluescreen (Oct 15, 2022)

maomao said:


> But without an actual mechanism for getting rid of her we're reliant on her own sense of decency or sense of shame. And she's Liz Truss.


Oh there's a mechanism all right, with the men in suits. Do you suppose she chose Jeremy Hunt of her own free will? She is desperate. She won't be enjoying this at all, and I don't get the impression that she is much given to self-sacrifice. She won't quit because it's the decent thing to do but because she can't bear it any longer.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Oh there's a mechanism all right, with the men in suits. Do you suppose she chose Jeremy Hunt of her own free will? She is desperate. She won't be enjoying this at all, and I don't get the impression that she is much given to self-sacrifice. She won't quit because it's the decent thing to do but because she can't bear it any longer.


Do you think hunt was her first choice?


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## bluescreen (Oct 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Do you think hunt was her first choice?


Ha, I don't think he was her choice at all.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 15, 2022)

Hunt will sit there as chancellor, projecting his sensible, centrist image that he's somehow cultivated in people who can't remember back to his scorched earth tenures as education, health and culture secretaries.  Anything that stabilises in the coming month or 2 will be down to his centrist sensibleness, anything that goes wrong will be down to Truss still being PM.

Then there will come a time when there's a "principled disagreement" between the 2, and Hunt will resign saying that he can't in good conscience enact policies as chancellor he fundamentally disagrees with.  Truss will be fatally undermined, more resignations will follow a lá Johnson's "Comedy Wednesday" and she'll be forced to resign.

Meanwhile, Hunt will have been carefully cultivating support rallying around  "Team Sensible Centrist" (taking over from Sunak as the Heir Apparent), and the Tory party will face a battle for its very soul between them and the headbangers who would never support remainy one-nation centrist sensibility.  Hopefully they all cunt themselves off to oblivion, but in the meantime we're all still fucked because Hunt or someone like Badenoch is PM.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

I may as well start wanking on about what a potentially useful reality check Trussonomics has provided.

The simplified version of 20th century history tells us that the Suez crisis was an intense reality check on the subject of empire and the extent of British global power and influence, a painful reality check for powerful wings of the tory party and the establishment more broadly. 

People may have expected Brexit to offer a similar kind of reality check, but actually so far its been a very long drawn out thing with obfuscated impacts, rather than something intense, and thats provided opportunities for various delusions to endure and be built upon rather than demolished in a few short weeks. Theres a sense that a reckoning over Brexit still looms, that the consequences could intensify and become more obvious at any moment, but until that actually happens the reality check potential is not unlocked.

And now we have Trussonomics, acting as a sort of proxy for the market doom some would have expected from Brexit. Will it set in motion the long overdue Brexit reality check? Even if not, and the fallout is somewhat contained, it should still have set in play the ultimate reality check for the particular thatcherite/free market/neoliberal thinking that infests much of the tory parliamentary party and may force that party to grapple more substantially with how out of touch such beliefs are with the realities of the 21st century, including market realities. I've droned on for years about the ideological vacuum in that party if that particular free market shit is stripped away, and I see others here were talking about that stuff on this thread the other day. The truths exposed by the dirty bomb that is Trussonomics may finally mean they have to take the journey to find something else to fill that vacuum, but I hope this will happen during a new 'winderness years' period for the tories, out of power.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

andysays said:


> There *are* mechanisms for getting rid of her though.
> 
> There is the formal mechanism of letters from MPs leading to a vote of no confidence, and there are also informal mechanisms of senior party figures having a word, persuading her that her position is untenable and she should step aside "for the good of the party", probably dressed up as the good of the country.
> 
> I'm not saying either of those things is about to happen, but the mechanisms certainly exist.



Current detail of the letters mechanism rules mean there is a block there - its not a mechanism that is supposed to be available during the first 12 months of a leaders tenure. 

But I dont get all that hung up by such detail because rules can always be changed, or alternatives made use of, and I'm in the never say never, where there is a will there is a way and necessity is the mother of invention camp.


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## Supine (Oct 15, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Hunt will sit there as chancellor, projecting his sensible, centrist image that he's somehow cultivated in people who can't remember back to his scorched earth tenures as education, health and culture secretaries.  Anything that stabilises in the coming month or 2 will be down to his centrist sensibleness, anything that goes wrong will be down to Truss still being PM.
> 
> Then there will come a time when there's a "principled disagreement" between the 2, and Hunt will resign saying that he can't in good conscience enact policies as chancellor he fundamentally disagrees with.  Truss will be fatally undermined, more resignations will follow a lá Johnson's "Comedy Wednesday" and she'll be forced to resign.
> 
> Meanwhile, Hunt will have been carefully cultivating support rallying around  "Team Sensible Centrist" (taking over from Sunak as the Heir Apparent), and the Tory party will face a battle for its very soul between them and the headbangers who would never support remainy one-nation centrist sensibility.  Hopefully they all cunt themselves off to oblivion, but in the meantime we're all still fucked because Hunt or someone like Badenoch is PM.



Hunt is not centrist. They are all right wing low tax, low service provision, selfish twats.


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## brogdale (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> I may as well start wanking on about what a potentially useful reality check Trussonomics has provided.
> 
> The simplified version of 20th century history tells us that the Suez crisis was an intense reality check on the subject of empire and the extent of British global power and influence, a painful reality check for powerful wings of the tory party and the establishment more broadly.
> 
> ...


The only "something else" that the tories will find is what the markets are prepared to lend towards. Clearly the markets did not perceive great risk to (their) fundamentals from Brexit, but nonsense Trussonomics increased risks to their returns.


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## Smangus (Oct 15, 2022)

I for 1 hope she stays and has a really fucking miserable time of it , every second of every hour , of every day. 

She fucking deserves this torture for all the misery she has caused and will cause millions of people. 

The look on her face at the press conference shows she has realised what a complete fuck up her policies and decisions were and are. 

Don't hold your breathe for a GE, they will cling to power until the very last minute.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

brogdale said:


> The only "something else" that the tories will find is what the markets are prepared to lend towards. Clearly the markets did not perceive great risk to (their) fundamentals from Brexit, but nonsense Trussonomics increased risks to their returns.



Well its not like I believe in the wisdom of markets, or that the world should be ordered based on pricing signals. And even if I did, there are so many mechanisms by which markets are managed and distorted via interventions including state/state bank intervention.

And I dont think the markets really gave Brexit a clean bill of health, they have just become a part of, at least in the initial phases, the mechanisms for drawing things out into a very long managed crisis rather than a sharp intense one with a giant instant implosion. I could probably make a similar claim about market response to the acute phase of the covid pandemic, and also the giant energy transition story of this century- they arent pricing in the whole story, its being broken down into manageable mini-realisations rather than signalling the doom realisation that would emerge if they had to absorb and come to terms with the full, ultimate implications in one go.

We seem to be in a hybrid era where much of the free market rhetoric remains but where central planning and control really has as vital a role to play in the large energy transition etc. This isnt a completely new, strange world since even at the height of the free market fantasies the other forms of control and management never really went away. But the enormity of the challenges may make some of the free market illusions become harder to maintain, some of the illusions may become obsolete and get in the way. When that is coupled with the prospects of a rethink being required in terms of how much work people do, how much energy their lives consume, and how much of a welfare safety net is required in order to maintain the system under those circumstances, there is potential for some of the rhetoric of the past to be borrowed from. The tories will need to figure out a way to dress this new world up, and they might I suppose borrow some aspects from their rhetoric from the 'one nation toryism' and 'post war consensus' era.


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## marty21 (Oct 15, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Top tip. Watch the live feed of Sky News on youtube, you can wind back a good half hour (or hour?) if you want to watch it in full.


I'll pass 🤣


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## Plumdaff (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> I may as well start wanking on about what a potentially useful reality check Trussonomics has provided.
> 
> The simplified version of 20th century history tells us that the Suez crisis was an intense reality check on the subject of empire and the extent of British global power and influence, a painful reality check for powerful wings of the tory party and the establishment more broadly.
> 
> ...


I largely agree with this, but would add that the current Labour leadership is nearly as in hock to this thinking as the Tories. Therefore I don't see Britain getting out of the doom spiral quickly even with a change of government.


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## marty21 (Oct 15, 2022)

So , this is basically what happened 

Liz " Do this " 
Kwasi "OK " 
Liz "WTF ,you did it ?" 
Kwasi " Yes , I did what you fucking asked me to do " 
Liz " FFS , fuck off"


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## Karl Masks (Oct 15, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> According to Geri Scott of The Times, Kwasi Kwarteng learnt he was being dismissed after reading a report by ⁦
> @thetimes ⁩ as he was being driven to Downing Street.



welcome to the gig economy


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## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 15, 2022)

Supine said:


> Hunt is not centrist. They are all right wing low tax, low service provision, selfish twats.


I know that, you know that.  But Liberals who for some reason bang on about unity governments featuring Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart seem to have contributed to the rehabilitation of Hunt's image as being from the  "moderate" wing of the party - helped in no small part by the Tories' race-to-the-right lunatic fringe lurching ever further.


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## Raheem (Oct 15, 2022)

Some Tory talking head on the radio earlier saying what will happen is Truss will carry on until next summer then Johnson will be elected leader unopposed.


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## killer b (Oct 15, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> I know that, you know that.  But Liberals who for some reason bang on about unity governments featuring Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart seem to have contributed to the rehabilitation of Hunt's image as being from the  "moderate" wing of the party - helped in no small part by the Tories' race-to-the-right lunatic fringe lurching ever further.


liberals like Hunt because he made some of the right noises over covid is all.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> I largely agree with this, but would add that the current Labour leadership is nearly as in hock to this thinking as the Tories. Therefore I don't see Britain getting out of the doom spiral quickly even with a change of government.



Yep. Compared to where politics and economics was at for much of my lifetime, the last decade or so has seen a broadening of what counts as 'legitimate/viable policy/debate', the mainstream bounds got a bit wider compared to the stiflingly narrow territory occupied by what is laughably called the centre ground. But apart from a few interesting policies in the McDonnell era, the big political parties have managed to mostly ignore this, they havent expanded their comfort zones and there is a sense that very narrow vested interests still hold them utterly captive. And our newspapers excel at keeping stuff suffocatingly narrow.

So its no surprise that Labour under Starmer appears to represent a continuity of that shit. A sense that any positive steps will be such tiny baby steps that they will not even begin to offer a significant correction to the course of this country. And that leaves people like me with the same old sense that has pervaded my entire adult political life, that more meaningful change will only be forced upon the establishment of this country via a series of crises, failures, searching desperately for hope in the backdrop of doom and decay. Viewing it only in those terms probably does overlook some forms of change though, and some forms of looming potential. For example there are some indications that generations fresher than mine do not have as much negative baggage from the failed regimes and ideologies of the 20th century, and at some point those generations will find themselves in the driving seat and will have the opportunity to make some new mistakes and repeat some old ones. But perhaps they will get lucky and circumstances will unlock some potential that was previous squandered or considered unthinkable in ages gone by. Information flows in interesting ways these days, and the curse of oil will not last forever.


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## Duncan2 (Oct 15, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Some Tory talking head on the radio earlier saying what will happen is Truss will carry on until next summer then Johnson will be elected leader unopposed.


Churchill used to go to Chequers to shake off the black dog.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Ha, I don't think he was her choice at all.


Which cabal forced him on her? The cameronians or the mayites?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Churchill used to go to Chequers to shake off the black dog.


The garden there is littered with stretches of weaving unfinished brick walls


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## Duncan2 (Oct 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> The garden there is littered with stretches of weaving unfinished brick walls


That could be the way back for her*?*


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> I know that, you know that.  But Liberals who for some reason bang on about unity governments featuring Ken Clarke and Rory Stewart seem to have contributed to the rehabilitation of Hunt's image as being from the  "moderate" wing of the party - helped in no small part by the Tories' race-to-the-right lunatic fringe lurching ever further.



Yeah its the contrast between the headbanger wing of the tories and the rest, coupled with many liberals not finding it that hard to buy into the idea that the coalition government era of the tories were only doing the sort of austerity shit that any 'responsible' government would have felt the need to have done in that particular period. File in the same bin as all the wank about the lib dems being a restraining force on the tories during those years.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> That could be the way back for her*?*


No, she's too far gone


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## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> That could be the way back for her*?*


What, if she trips on a brick and breaks her leg? I'd accept her coming back to London one last time, via ambulance, to get it pinned - if she doesn't mind waiting in the queue for several hours.


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## Duncan2 (Oct 15, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> What, if she trips on a brick and breaks her leg? I'd accept her coming back to London one last time, via ambulance, to get it pinned - if she doesn't mind waiting in the queue for several hours.


I thought PM was suggesting she could rebuild her career but hungover dunno


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## WhyLikeThis (Oct 15, 2022)

wrong thread


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## maomao (Oct 15, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Churchill used to go to Chequers to shake off the black dog.


Lucky dog.


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## Lord Camomile (Oct 15, 2022)

marty21 said:


> So , this is basically what happened
> 
> Liz " Do this "
> Kwasi "OK "
> ...


"WTF, you did it?" implies she knew what would happen and didn't actually mean him to do it.

I think it's the exact opposite: she meant him to do it because she had no idea what would happen.

A bit more "oh, turns out my idea didn't work, therefore you're fired"


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## danny la rouge (Oct 15, 2022)

maomao said:


> Lucky dog.


Oh yes.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 15, 2022)




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## bimble (Oct 15, 2022)

Particularly enjoying the various quotes about how they’re definitely not going to let the membership get anywhere near choosing the next one. 
Eg


----------



## andysays (Oct 15, 2022)

bimble said:


> Particularly enjoying the various quotes about how they’re definitely not going to let the membership get anywhere near choosing the next one.
> EgView attachment 347286View attachment 347287



(((Maidenhead)))


----------



## teqniq (Oct 15, 2022)

Made me smile:


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>




There are many quotable bits in that article but of most interest to me is probably:



> Truss conceded on Wednesday to her MPs that she had not “laid the groundwork” for her plan sufficiently, but many Tory MPs put the debacle down to an arrogance based on the ideological certainty of a group of rightwingers, fuelled by rightwing think-tanks like the Institute of Economic Affairs. “When facile statements meet real life — boom!” says one ex-cabinet minister.
> 
> Truss’s problems are not just about communication: in the view of many MPs in her own party, her rightwing solutions to Britain’s problems are not even popular with Tory voters.



and



> While Tory moderates are furious with Truss, there is perhaps even more anger on the right. Its dream of turning a post-Brexit Britain into a low-tax, low-regulation economy — “rightwing nuttery” in the words of one former Tory cabinet minister — is disappearing in front of its eyes.



None of those outcomes are surprising but I'm still pleased I got to see them demonstrated in such dramatic fashion.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

Even Kuenssberg manages to latch onto some of those themes, albeit not in an impressive way:









						Who is in charge? Liz Truss or Jeremy Hunt?
					

The new chancellor has junked the prime minister's economic strategy in 24 hours, writes Laura Kuenssberg.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				






> Mr Hunt's appointment could calm the markets and has definitely eased some of the concerns in the centre of the Conservative Party, but it has created new unhappiness on the right.
> 
> They are frustrated that Ms Truss has given up on her plans and are suspicious that MPs who were never really on board with her ideology have taken advantage of a crisis in the markets for their own political ends.
> 
> One of her fellow free marketeers, an ex-minister, told me they were "discouraged" and warned a "full-scale dismantling of the plans would test party unity in a different way".





> And there's a truth that's been obscured by the wild politics of the last few weeks.
> 
> The Conservative Party in 2022 doesn't feel entirely sure what it's for, and hasn't for some time.
> 
> On the Tory right some feel an attempt at ditching the rather limp centrist approach of the last few years has crashed - but in the middle there's a sense of grim satisfaction they were correct.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 15, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Which cabal forced him on her? The cameronians or the mayites?


Oh I don't know. I haven't a clue. It's idle speculation obviously, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were united in their horror at the sheer horlicks the woman has managed to create in record time. The Brady Gang may have presented her with a list of options of which this was the least unacceptable.


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## not a trot (Oct 15, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Oh I don't know. I haven't a clue. It's idle speculation obviously, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were united in their horror at the sheer horlicks the woman has managed to create in record time. The Brady Gang may have presented her with a list of options of which this was the least unacceptable.



Best option for Brady, is to pull up outside number 10, in a removal van.


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## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> Even Kuenssberg manages to latch onto some of those themes, albeit not in an impressive way:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 'centrist approach of the last few years'? I can't say I've noticed anything of the kind. Of course they 'know what they're for' - they've always known that. They're for what they've always been - themselves. The only problem (for them) is how thin the veneer on that has become. Shocking analysis even by Kuenssberg standards. 

The ex minister free marketeer speaking in the first quote sounds like Priti Patel. I could hear her saying dismantlin' as I read the world dismantling.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

Centrist is a term thats used in a relative way - what counts as centrist is usually a load of stuff that is still awful and is just more centrist than the tory headbangers policy preferences.


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## bimble (Oct 15, 2022)

They the party really can't blame Liz Truss for this most recent clusterfuck can they, they'd like and will try but it won't work.
I mean they put her there, and that's because of previously having so thoroughly purged themselves of anyone with half a braincell or grasp of reality, which also explains why there wasn't a soul around to advise her how to reduce the damage or even how to not do the mad fantasy thatcher basketcase budget in the first place. they wont be able to pretend it was all Liz's fault, nobody will buy it.


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> Centrist is a term thats used in a relative way - what counts as centrist is usually a load of stuff that is still awful and is just more centrist than the tory headbangers policy preferences.



yes, as in the bidding wars during the leadership contest about who would be nastiest to migrants, who would have let most people die of covid and so on...


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## Tanya1982 (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> Centrist is a term thats used in a relative way - what counts as centrist is usually a load of stuff that is still awful and is just more centrist than the tory headbangers policy preferences.


Yes, perhaps. She needs to be clearer. I mean, a commentator in the Third Reich arguing that Aktion T4 should be shut down - only not because it's wicked, but because it would be cheaper to let those people die naturally in the streets, isn't a centrist. They're just not as far along the same road.

She's a thoroughly terrible analyst at the best of times, but claiming the Tories don't know what they're all about is woeful even by her own standards. They do. They're just having trouble selling what they are in the current market of their own making, but that's not the same thing at all.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

Its more a problem of those who are labelled as things such as 'tory moderates', 'wets' or 'one nation conservatives' being squeezed by the extreme headbangers, and not knowing how to reinvent themselves properly to cope with things like Brexit and the energy transition, not knowing what sales pitch they can use on the electorate under circumstances dominated by those issues. This has left a bit of an ideological vacuum, or at the very least a loss of confidence and leadership in that wing of the party. The policies of the headbangers being demonstrated to be so far out of step with economic and market reality is one thing that needed to happen for them to be able to reinvent themselves, but they'll also have to wait until the climate/energy situation is even more blindingly obvious, and until the process of coming to terms with Brexit by the wider establishment has gone well beyond the dismal stage its reached so far. Whether that will ultimately involve the UK having to crawl on its knees back towards a larger economic block is an unresolved question that will keep the brexiteers vs remoaners busy for a long time to come by the looks of things. And in the meantime the most obvious political forces in this country dare not even speak of such a prospect.


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## brogdale (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> Its more a problem of those who are labelled as things such as 'tory moderates', 'wets' or 'one nation conservatives' being squeezed by the extreme headbangers, and not knowing how to reinvent themselves properly to cope with things like Brexit and the energy transition, not knowing what sales pitch they can use on the electorate under circumstances dominated by those issues. This has left a bit of an ideological vacuum, or at the very least a loss of confidence and leadership in that wing of the party. The policies of the headbangers being demonstrated to be so far out of step with economic and market reality is one thing that needed to happen for them to be able to reinvent themselves, but they'll also have to wait until the climate/energy situation is even more blindingly obvious, and until the process of coming to terms with Brexit by the wider establishment has gone well beyond the dismal stage its reached so far. Whether that will ultimately involve the UK having to crawl on its knees back towards a larger economic block is an unresolved question that will keep the brexiteers vs remoaners busy for a long time to come by the looks of things. And in the meantime the most obvious political forces in this country dare not even speak of such a prospect.


Again, the UK state's trading relationship with the EU appears pretty inconsequential to the markets deciding what price they place on credit to the polity. Can't see any market pressure from globalised fincap to re-engage with the trading bloc whilst their returns are unaffected.


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## teqniq (Oct 15, 2022)

I initially thought of posting this on the Bexit thread but it also deals with the current debacle. Quite surprising for the Torygraph in it's latest incarnation. The writer is a bit all over the shop though finishing off with:

'If it had been done differently it might have succeeded, but it was not....'

_Really?_

Project Fear was right all along


----------



## brogdale (Oct 15, 2022)

Trying his hardest to take his "great friend' down with him.


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## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Again, the UK state's trading relationship with the EU appears pretty inconsequential to the markets deciding what price they place on credit to the polity. Can't see any market pressure from globalised fincap to re-engage with the trading bloc whilst their returns are unaffected.



Those particular markets arent the only game in town, are far from the only potential indicator of low confidence in the future, and I still think the fundamentals of the perilous situation would have come home to roost eventually. Quite which form the crisis would have shown up via first I cannot be sure of, especially as some of the other situations involving covid and war have been able to spread the claimed 'causes of the woe' more broadly, somewhat obscuring brexits role for longer than would otherwise have been the case. Even if those markets didnt care about stuff like a problem with the balance of trade, it would eventually have shown up starkly via other signals.

Returning to my point about the tory ideological void and the opposing camps, Johnson managed to straddle that void via his levelling up sales pitch, and by throwing the headbangers lots of brexit rhetorical bones without actually giving them the lunatic economic policies they wanted. When it came to the actual politics and economics under him, there was stuff in there that the one nation tories could more than live with. Although even if he hadnt self-destructed over partygate etc, I suppose the assumption would have been that the levelling up stuff would eventually have proven to be as hollow as Camerons big society rhetoric, which when coupled with the failure of a glorious post-Brexit golden era to emerge, would have left the tories with the same problem as they've got now, just with a different timescale.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

teqniq said:


> I initially thought of posting this on the Bexit thread but it also deals with the current debacle. Quite surprising for the Torygraph in it's latest incarnation. The writer is a bit all over the shop though finishing off with:
> 
> 'If it had been done differently it might have succeeded, but it was not....'
> 
> ...



Yeah good timing, pretty trivial to weave bits of that into some of the stuff I've been parping on about on this thread today.

Been stuck in a post-Brexit delusional holding pattern where various wings of the tory party, along with other parties and other aspects of the establishment, have just been keeping their heads down and waiting for the shit to hit the fan before sensing the opportunity to reboot their shtick without the risk of being blamed for scuppering the new golden age. 

And now the headbangers have burst the delusion by actually testing it via stupid economic policies. Whether another holding pattern can be cobbled together that dampens down the chaos while paying much less heed to the headbangers impossible vision of the future remains to be seen, but either way we can probably move on to at least the next stage of coming to terms with reality. If the chaos persists then we will either skip a few stages ahead in that story, which is long overdue, or perhaps a new, even more desperate delusion will yet emerge. Not convinced even the headbangers can pull that off though given the extent and speed with which their credibility has been put to the test and shredded.


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## bimble (Oct 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> Yeah good timing, pretty trivial to weave bits of that into some of the stuff I've been parping on about on this thread today.
> 
> Been stuck in a post-Brexit delusional holding pattern where various wings of the tory party, along with other parties and other aspects of the establishment, have just been keeping their heads down and waiting for the shit to hit the fan before sensing the opportunity to reboot their shtick without the risk of being blamed for scuppering the new golden age.
> 
> And now the headbangers have burst the delusion by actually testing it via stupid economic policies. Whether another holding pattern can be cobbled together that dampens down the chaos while paying much less heed to the headbangers impossible vision of the future remains to be seen, but either way we can probably move on to at least the next stage of coming to terms with reality. If the chaos persists then we will either skip a few stages ahead in that story, which is long overdue, or perhaps a new, even more desperate delusion will yet emerge. Not convinced even the headbangers can pull that off though given the extent and speed with which their credibility has been put to the test and shredded.


Not really following your idea here. Is it that international finance has just taught this country / the tory party a lesson about the limits of Sovereignty so we're about to enter some sort of period where it dawns on us that brexit wasn't that brilliant an idea after all. I mean, I hope so, but think mostly people will just try to not mention the B word for at least a decade maybe a generation.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 15, 2022)

Pretty sure she’ll now do what Johnson did and many US presidents have done: look around and decide that foreign stuff such as wars offer much better prospects than those annoying internal fuckups. Expect a trip to Kiev soon.


----------



## contadino (Oct 15, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Pretty sure she’ll now do what Johnson did and many US presidents have done: look around and decide that foreign stuff such as wars offer much better prospects than those annoying internal fuckups. Expect a trip to Kiev soon.


The tone of the press release from her first call to the Ukraine read pretty badly. I don't think she'll get to pop over there each time things are a bit dicey at home.

However she will be looking for a piñata and I think it'll be one of the usual far right ones: striking workers, channel migrants, academics, etc...


----------



## xenon (Oct 15, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Pretty sure she’ll now do what Johnson did and many US presidents have done: look around and decide that foreign stuff such as wars offer much better prospects than those annoying internal fuckups. Expect a trip to Kiev soon.



Ha, no chance. It wouldn't get past a vote and if done without, she'd just be ignored.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2022)

bimble said:


> Not really following your idea here. Is it that international finance has just taught this country / the tory party a lesson about the limits of Sovereignty so we're about to enter some sort of period where it dawns on us that brexit wasn't that brilliant an idea after all. I mean, I hope so, but think mostly people will just try to not mention the B word for at least a decade maybe a generation.



Well the context that started going off in that direction is more to do with a few different things that impact on the tory party:

What the tory brexiteer headbanger wing wanted to do with the 'Brexit freedom' - the doomed Truss attempt to start to deliver some of that stuff has exploded and with it go their dreams and their sense that they were in the ascendance and what might be possible post-Brexit. And some of the potential pain from Brexit isnt automatic, it only happens if the powers that be decide to use the 'Brexit freedoms' in particular ways. The failed budget offers some clues about the limits to the freedom that has actually been obtained via Brexit.

The problems the whole 'keep your head down and dont mention Brexit' reality posed for the 'one nation tories' wing of the party and their ability to come up with a vision/sales pitch for the future that they could convince themselves and the electorate was possible and desirable. Theres a whole bunch of stuff that they were afraid to go on about in case they were accused of failing to make the most of Brexit, or trying to roll-back Brexit, and I assume they preferred to leave the demonstration of the limitations of what was actually possible, and what could go disastrously wrong, to the headbangers.

I also think that economic Brexit woe would have become much harder to deny at some stage, they wouldnt actually have the luxury of not mentioning Brexit for a decade or a generation, it was always going to rear its ugly head at some point. The Truss explosion adds to the pain and may well have changed the timing of when these other things become undeniable. eg just because stuff like the balance of trade doesnt get talked about on the news anywhere near as much these days as it did when I was young doesnt mean the inability to balance the books when it comes to imports and exports is no longer a big deal, a reckoning on that front is still out there somewhere.

Anyway dont take my word for it, nothing changes if its just people like me saying this sort of thing. I've started going on about it more now because there is some stuff that seems to be pointing in the same direction to be found in articles like the Torygraph one that was mentioned in post https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/liz-truss’s-time-is-up.378779/post-17885597


----------



## brogdale (Oct 15, 2022)

Open blue-on-blue warfare:


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 15, 2022)

Like crabs in a bucket.


----------



## Sue (Oct 15, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Open blue-on-blue warfare:



Imagine Truss thinking you're shit... 🤣 

🍿


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 15, 2022)

Tbh, the Saj has_ a few_ more brain cells than the animatronic gerbil...


----------



## Humberto (Oct 15, 2022)

Some actual gerbils do too tbf.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 16, 2022)

Oh dear how sad never mind

from the Staggers
*Liz Truss already faces “a pile” of letters of no confidence*
_The 1922 Committee is ready to suspend the rule that prevents a vote to oust the Conservative leader within a year of taking office._
By Harry Lambert





__





						archive.ph
					





					archive.ph


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 16, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Oh dear how sad never mind
> 
> from the Staggers
> *Liz Truss already faces “a pile” of letters of no confidence*
> ...


Wonder what time Brady is back of his hols tomorrow ?


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 16, 2022)

Very entertaining pot stirring articles by hacks in the Sunday Times:

Truss is the latest victim of a never-ending Tory death cult (archived)
by Caroline Wheeler, political editor, and Harry Yorke, deputy political editor.

This is the article referred to above, in which a No 10 source is quoted as briefing that Sajid Javid is shit, in the course of denying that he had been the first to be approached about replacing Kwarteng as Chancellor, but had demanded too high a price. There are a lot of other zingers in the article:



> Truss appears to have anticipated that calls for her removal would only grow after Kwarteng’s sacking. Within minutes of the prime minister’s disastrous eight-minute press conference on Friday afternoon, Thérèse Coffey, the deputy prime minister and health secretary, held a phone call with dozens of ministers in an attempt to shore up Truss’s support. Looking “very upset”, according to one person on the call, Coffey acknowledged that the government had gone “too far and too fast” in the mini-budget but insisted that despite the severe setbacks No 10 remained determined to prove wrong the “flipping” Office for Budget Responsibility. (...)





> At one point Coffey made a reference to a “ferret in the trousers” and the fact that once “the ferret is out’’ the disruption and market volatility would end. It was unclear to those listening in whether the ferret she referred to was the mini-budget, or Kwarteng.



Party boy Rishi Sunak still wants to be prime minister (archived)
by Tim Shipman, chief political commentator.



> It is a point made vocally by Johnson’s cheerleaders and by Downing Street, which this weekend tried to place blame for the plotting squarely at Sunak’s door. A Downing Street source said: “The people who plotted against one PM are now trying to get rid of another. They do not care about our economic prosperity or the markets or the situation in Ukraine. They know who they are. The world should know who they are: Julian Smith, Gavin Williamson, Simon Hoare, Mel Stride. This is a vendetta-driven plot to re-run the leadership election because they don’t like the fact that they lost to a woman. It’s a public-school takedown. They don’t care about anything except their own careers. It is time the plotters thought about who they work for: it is the British people.”



🤣🤣


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 16, 2022)

I think she's done. Gone by the end of the week. She seems utterly friendless - I think that press conference sealed her fate. Hunt has been imposed on her and hes just doing damage limitation until Sunak slides into post.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 16, 2022)

But ... but ... but ... what about the pork markets?  And the cheese?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 16, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> I think she's done. Gone by the end of the week. She seems utterly friendless - I think that press conference sealed her fate. Hunt has been imposed on her and hes just doing damage limitation until Sunak slides into post.



Whether or not Hunt was forced on her, the wider point is that she’s dumped her ally and friend _and the economic principles on which she campaigned on. _So her ‘principles’ were clearly just the latest political convenience for Truss’ ambition. The only honourable route for Truss was to resign and in doing so stand by her friend and their shared politics. 

Can’t see Sunak. Too divisive. It’ll be some nonentity like Ben Wallace who the Tory party seems to rate for mysterious reasons


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 16, 2022)

all going so well...


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 16, 2022)

if Hunt wasn't her choice, does it then follow that she wanted to keep Kwarteng?


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 16, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> all going so well...



Let's interview someone who fundamentally and openly can't answer the question. But instead let's have him on because he can further trash Liztruss.

Tories are strange. When you're a voter, tories seem strange.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 16, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Let's interview someone who fundamentally and openly can't answer the question. But instead let's have him on because he can further trash Liztruss.
> 
> Tories are strange. When you're a voter, tories seem strange.


How dare he trash our lovely prime minister like that on air? We shouldn't be criticizing our conservative colleagues


----------



## LDC (Oct 16, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> all going so well...




One of the scrolling bits underneath that interview said a Tory MP had called the government 'libertarian jihadists'.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 16, 2022)

two sheds said:


> How dare he trash our lovely prime minister like that on air? We shouldn't be criticizing our conservative colleagues


Careful now, it's sunday morning


----------



## LDC (Oct 16, 2022)

At this point looks like we could just give them all knives and clubs, let them loose on each other and then the PM could be the last one left alive.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 16, 2022)

I guess this is going to go on for the next 2 years whilst they all have a go at being PM.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 16, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Careful now, it's sunday morning


indeed, I wonder how many people are now thinking she called him 'cunt'.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 16, 2022)

LDC said:


> At this point looks like we could just give them all knives and clubs, let them loose on each other and then the PM could be the last one left alive.


Although hopefully they will have been mortally wounded in the process.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 16, 2022)

two sheds said:


> But ... but ... but ... what about the pork markets?



She’s already opened them up hasn’t she?


----------



## teqniq (Oct 16, 2022)

Doubtless if he fucks off it will be to protect his wealth but don't let the door hit your arse on the way out:

Sir Rocco Forte threatens to quit Britain over Truss's tax U-turn


----------



## Smangus (Oct 16, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Doubtless if he fucks off it will be to protect his wealth but don't let the door hit your arse on the way out:
> 
> Sir Rocco Forte threatens to quit Britain over Truss's tax U-turn



I am quaking in my slippers at this almighty threat to my future


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 16, 2022)

The Graun, Mirror, Times and Sun front pages make an interesting tableau today, it's all gone a bit reverse Game of Thrones really hasn't it. "If you're having to deny you're the one really in charge you're definitely the one really in charge."


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 16, 2022)

Probably too kind on Jeremy this (in the Tony Soprano role)...


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 16, 2022)

Wait is Graham Brady Paulie?


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 16, 2022)

With Biden as Carmine Lupertazzi: "They're just a glorified crew"


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Oct 16, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Whether or not Hunt was forced on her, the wider point is that she’s dumped her ally and friend _and the economic principles on which she campaigned on. _So her ‘principles’ were clearly just the latest political convenience for Truss’ ambition.


bloody Marxist


----------



## teqniq (Oct 16, 2022)

Hahaha. Conservative home, no less. How much longer can she last?









						It's all over for Truss | Conservative Home
					

She may continue in office and even win the next election. But Trussonomics, and the prospectus on which she contested the leadership election, is over.




					conservativehome.com


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 16, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> View attachment 347412
> Probably too kind on Jeremy this (in the Tony Soprano role)...



Boris and Doris as Uncle June and Livia


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 16, 2022)

Hang in there Liz, I believe in you


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 16, 2022)

two sheds said:


> But ... but ... but ... what about the pork markets?  And the cheese?


Therese Coffey has eaten all of the pork and all of the cheese - there's nothing left to export apart from the packaging.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 16, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Therese Coffey has eaten all of the pork and all of the cheese - there's nothing left to export apart from the packaging.


Awwww... c'mon.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 16, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Hang in there Liz, I believe in you


Despite the ominshambles, permanent crisis in the party and the rest, if the tories end up with some combination of sunak/cunt or that defence bloke, I'd put Labour's chances of winning next time as little more 55-60% .  Kieth is just... nothing, and Labour hasn't really got a narrative or connection with voters.  I do think the tories are done for, because their only way forward is another leadership process, which itself should be fatal.  But ultimately, sunak/cunt/that other bloke will still be fighting a timid empty suit.


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2022)

I think boring suit with no big ideas and some normal hair might be just what a lot of people want tbh, after the scary clown show of the last whatever many years, the next election might be a competition like ‘vote for me I’m the boringest sensiblest & least ideological’. Idk.


----------



## Serene (Oct 16, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Therese Coffey has eaten all of the pork and all of the cheese - there's nothing left to export apart from the packaging.


The anti-growth coalition caused that.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 16, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think boring suit with no big ideas and some normal hair might be just what a lot of people want tbh, after the scary clown show of the last whatever many years, the next election might be a competition like ‘vote for me I’m the boringest sensiblest & least ideological’. Idk.


It would be comforting to think that, but I worry the clown show will continue because enough people have come to actually want a 'character' over a pro.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 16, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Hang in there Liz, I believe in you


The most successful deep cover operative Labour have ever sent into the Tory party!  Starmer should give her a special award🎖️


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> The most successful deep cover operative Labour have ever sent into the Tory party!  Starmer should give her a special award🎖️


The red heroine of labour


----------



## xenon (Oct 16, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Hahaha. Conservative home, no less. How much longer can she last?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fuck these people. I hate the way soundbites, glib statements and opinions a are elevated to a political philosophy. Trussenomics consisting of: Cut tax >>> growth.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 16, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think boring suit with no big ideas and some normal hair might be just what a lot of people want tbh, after the scary clown show of the last whatever many years, the next election might be a competition like ‘vote for me I’m the boringest sensiblest & least ideological’. Idk.


looks like it'll be a choice between two suits but whoever it is who wins will have a rammed intray of crisis,  growing impoverishment etc so cant see technocratic managerial boddism having a long honey moon period...the inability to improve peoples lives or deal with what needs dealing with will remain constant


----------



## xenon (Oct 16, 2022)

bimble said:


> I think boring suit with no big ideas and some normal hair might be just what a lot of people want tbh, after the scary clown show of the last whatever many years, the next election might be a competition like ‘vote for me I’m the boringest sensiblest & least ideological’. Idk.



Well I want the green new deal stuff and GBE, renationlising the rail franchises as they come up for renewal at least. Otherwise why bother.


----------



## Sue (Oct 16, 2022)

xenon said:


> Fuck these people. I hate the way soundbites, glib statements and opinions a are elevated to a political philosophy. Trussenomics consisting of: Cut tax >>> growth.


You're clearly part of The Anti-Growth Coalition.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2022)

Sue said:


> You're clearly part of The Anti-Growth Coalition.


The incredible shrinking xenon


----------



## bimble (Oct 16, 2022)

i live in a place thats just voted conservative regardless of whats going on since the day it was born, so am slightly curious to sit on my sofa & see what they'll do next time, maybe it'll just be an extremely low turnout idk.


----------



## xenon (Oct 16, 2022)

Sue said:


> You're clearly part of The Anti-Growth Coalition.



I'm for a smaller state it's true, just not the same bits as this lot in charge...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 16, 2022)

bimble said:


> i live in a place thats just voted conservative regardless of whats going on since the day it was born, so am slightly curious to sit on my sofa & see what they'll do next time, maybe it'll just be an extremely low turnout idk.



dunno - may depend on what extent there's tactical voting - may be lib dem gains at some seats in the 'home counties' if the chesham + amersham by-election type of vote happens again

although people are more inclined either not to bother, or to register a 'protest vote' in by-elections and to some extent in council elections (and in the past euro elections) than in general elections.  i'm not sure the tories were any more popular in 1997 than they had been in 1993, but some previously solid tory shire councils went non-tory in 1993, but went back tory in 1997 (despite the national labour landslide) when turnout was higher (from memory, buckinghamshire was the only tory majority controlled english shire county from 1993-1997, others like kent, surrey and lincolnshire went tory again in 1997, others took a bit longer.)

or whether the smart suit and haircut / posh-ish starmer is toryish enough for previously tory voters to vote labour.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 16, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> national labour landslide


They only got 40pc of the votes cast.
"landslide" = journalist spin


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 16, 2022)

If true.. 🤣


----------



## agricola (Oct 16, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> View attachment 347412
> Probably too kind on Jeremy this (in the Tony Soprano role)...



more like Matt Bevilaqua.... here she is approaching Rupert Murdoch, asking for the help of his media empire:


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 16, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> If true.. 🤣



That sounds like she is paranoid to me


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> That sounds like she is paranoid to me


She just loses them, forgets where she's put them.


----------



## Supine (Oct 16, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> If true.. 🤣




She’s probably preparing the ground for her exfiltration to a lib dem safe house


----------



## gosub (Oct 16, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> That sounds like she is paranoid to me


Or doesn't know how to turn the thing off


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 16, 2022)

Given that the performance of Zelensky in Ukraine I’m going out on a limb.


Lycett4Leader


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 16, 2022)

Sky News have said Ben Wallace via Senior Defence sources has said that MPs now need to stop the plotting against Truss

So it appears he does not want the top job


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 16, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sky News have said Ben Wallace via Senior Defence sources has said that MPs now need to stop the plotting against Truss
> 
> So it appears he does not want the top job


Sounds like the kiss of death there, he will be pm a week on Tuesday.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 16, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> If true.. 🤣



I'm more concenred with the blue on blue gaslighting. I'm simultaneously amused and disgusted. Shows these swine for what they are


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> Sounds like the kiss of death there, he will be pm a week on Tuesday.


Then a week later it's John Redwood's turn


----------



## belboid (Oct 16, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> If true.. 🤣



Oakeshot just makes stuff up, as believable as the Trusster


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Then a week later it's John Redwood's turn


----------



## killer b (Oct 16, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sky News have said Ben Wallace via Senior Defence sources has said that MPs now need to stop the plotting against Truss
> 
> So it appears he does not want the top job


There is no way someone who didn't want the job a couple of months ago would want the job now anyway tbf


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2022)

killer b said:


> There is no way someone who didn't want the job a couple of months ago would want the job now anyway tbf


A couple of months back he wouldn't have got the job


----------



## teqniq (Oct 16, 2022)




----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 16, 2022)

teqniq said:


>



There's no I in team, but there is an I in pie


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2022)

This BBC piece about how we are an international laughing stock where the jokes exceed the bounds of normal diplomacy is full of shitty sentiments about how we are normally seen as such a solid and dependable force on the international stage, how the world is begging for a return of sane Britannia.









						US President Biden calls Truss's economic policies 'a mistake'
					

The US president spoke out as the UK pays a diplomatic price for turmoil, the BBC’s James Landale writes.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 16, 2022)

Hang in there Liz etc


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Oct 16, 2022)

killer b said:


> Enjoyably, The Daily Star are now live-streaming a lettuce to see if Truss lasts longer than it
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: too slow - danny la rouge beat me too it



if she's stabbed in the back, I hope they make a Caesar salad out of it


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 16, 2022)




----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 16, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>




one of the replies


----------



## brogdale (Oct 16, 2022)

Being holed up in Chequers all weekend; they're clearly working on the choreography of her abdication and Sunak's coronation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Being holed up in Chequers all weekend; they're clearly working on the choreography of her abdication and Sunak's coronation.


She knew she was on the way out so she wanted to raid the chequers drinks cabinet before leaving no 10


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> She knew she was on the way out so she wanted to raid the chequers drinks cabinet before leaving no 10



and leave some frozen fish under the floorboards


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> She knew she was on the way out so she wanted to raid the chequers drinks cabinet before leaving no 10


Unfortunately Al Johnson took all the contents before he scurried back off to the attic, where he is currently squatting.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 16, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Being holed up in Chequers all weekend; they're clearly working on the choreography of her abdication and Sunak's coronation.



I wish I believed that - but given how willing she was to throw Kwartang and her _long held economic beliefs_ under the bus, I'd put money on her doing a massive rehash of policy and a reshuffle in order to stay in office.

Hunt would, imo, probably go along with it. He's pretty unlikely to be PM, but this way it's clear he's the power, he gets to shape policy in a way no one other than a PM (even a PM?) will get to do in the near future, and the longer he 'holds the fort' as a Grown-up, the more likely he is to hold the ring when he eventually hands her the whiskey and the Mess Webley - and the more likely he is to get a big job (he was, iirc, considered a pretty good and thorough Foreign Secretary).

I don't doubt he'll try and give her the heave before too long,  but if he wants to be a power broker, he needs to both get his feet under the table _and_ be able to demonstrate a decent success.

(I am, of course, Urbans worst political forecaster 12 years running, so while you've be reading this she's probably been resigning live on TV...)


----------



## Supine (Oct 16, 2022)

I’m guessing our Liz will try some strong leadership on the ukraine situation next. I hope she doesn’t.


----------



## Sue (Oct 16, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Being holed up in Chequers all weekend; they're clearly working on the choreography of her abdication and Sunak's coronation.





kebabking said:


> I wish I believed that - but given how willing she was to throw Kwartang and her _long held economic beliefs_ under the bus, I'd put money on her doing a massive rehash of policy and a reshuffle in order to stay in office.
> 
> Hunt would, imo, probably go along with it. He's pretty unlikely to be PM, but this way it's clear he's the power, he gets to shape policy in a way no one other than a PM (even a PM?) will get to do in the near future, and the longer he 'holds the fort' as a Grown-up, the more likely he is to hold the ring when he eventually hands her the whiskey and the Mess Webley - and the more likely he is to get a big job (he was, iirc, considered a pretty good and thorough Foreign Secretary).
> 
> ...


No idea what's going to happen but sure we'll all be fucked over either way.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 16, 2022)

Sue said:


> No idea what's going to happen but sure we'll all be fucked over either way.


Oh yes, that's a cert


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 16, 2022)

Whatever they do next the entire country seems to be looking on in horrified disbelief.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 16, 2022)

The broad concensus amongst my almost entirely uniformed social circle is that it's akin to having a troop of Crack-fuelled monkeys move in next door - wanking on the fence, shiting in the street, screaming at planes flying overhead.

Proper 'the fuck?'...


----------



## stavros (Oct 16, 2022)




----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 16, 2022)

What you don't see on screen is that Hunt's saying "there will be hard decisions ahead" while eyeing Liz Truss's Downing Street lanyard.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 16, 2022)

The CEO in Washington mutters something, then things move.


----------



## Supine (Oct 16, 2022)




----------



## Sue (Oct 16, 2022)

kebabking said:


> The broad concensus amongst my almost entirely uniformed social circle is that it's *akin to having a troop of Crack-fuelled monkeys move in next door - wanking on the fence, shiting in the street, screaming at planes flying overhead.*
> 
> Proper 'the fuck?'...


As good as that, eh? Christ but we're fucked. 😱


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 16, 2022)

Hunt reprising Heseltine's role in the dog days of the John Major government:


----------



## wow (Oct 16, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> She knew she was on the way out so she wanted to raid the chequers drinks cabinet before leaving no 10


Right now she’s still in. My somewhat in-the-know prediction is that her leadership will be publicly and seriously challenged tomorrow. On Tuesday, the 1922 committee will change the rules. Wednesday the party will remove her.


----------



## stdP (Oct 17, 2022)

Supine said:


> I’m guessing our Liz will try some strong leadership on the ukraine situation next.



Peace'n'Pork deal with Putin, then declaring war on Europe?


----------



## Raheem (Oct 17, 2022)

Supine said:


> I’m guessing our Liz will try some strong leadership on the ukraine situation next.


Think she will be trying some strong drink.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 17, 2022)

Apparently she's on a no fly list. No one wants her near business or economy.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Sky is reporting that Hunt will be announcing even more U-turns on the mini-budget this afternoon, hence why he's pulled out of doing his planned media rounds this morning, all this was agreed during his meeting with Truss over the weekend.

No doubt this was more of a case of Hunt telling her what he would do, whilst she cowered behind the sofa.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 17, 2022)

kebabking said:


> The broad concensus amongst my almost entirely uniformed social circle is that it's akin to having a troop of Crack-fuelled monkeys move in next door - wanking on the fence, shiting in the street, screaming at planes flying overhead.



Bit like life in a garrison town then.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 17, 2022)

FT report half an hour ago that Hunt :



> is expected to issue a statement on new tax and spending measures at 11am before making a Commons statement this afternoon.





> Hunt agreed the emergency statement with Liz Truss, prime minister, on Sunday, after concluding the government could not afford another battering by the markets this week.



Jeremy Hunt to bring forward tax and spend measures in bid to calm markets - Financial Times (archived)

Treasury press release here:
Chancellor statement on the Medium-Term Fiscal Plan - GOV.UK


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Apparently he's making the public statement this morning now, because it's Monday and the commons doesn't start sitting until this afternoon, and it's considered urgent to get it out there ASAP in an attempt to settle the markets.

A statement to the commons is now expected around 3.30pm, which will probably be entertaining.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Apparently he's making the public statement this morning now, because it's Monday and the commons doesn't start sitting until this afternoon, and it's considered urgent to get it out there ASAP in an attempt to settle the markets.
> 
> A statement to the commons is now expected around 3.30pm, which will probably be entertaining.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Lurdan said:


> FT report half an hour ago that Hunt :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Monday morning cunt makes statement

Monday afternoon truss ejected for crowning sin, disrespect to her mps?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

Stepping back a bit, anything that goes by the name of 'a medium term fiscal plan' really should be extremely boring and not headline news or urgently rushed through before breakfast & weeks early. But that would be in a normal non-desperate non-basketcase country obvs.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 17, 2022)

So far, so calm in the markets today. I guess they’re waiting to see what this 11am announcement brings


----------



## Supine (Oct 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> So far, so calm in the markets today. I guess they’re waiting to see what this 11am announcement brings



It’s only been open 25 minutes. They’re probably still making coffee


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> So far, so calm in the markets today. I guess they’re waiting to see what this 11am announcement brings


What is it that they want to see? Taxes up but also specific cuts announced ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> What is it that they want to see?


Cuts to services


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Cuts to services


Ye but if he said, we are cutting schools roads healthcare by half, they’d all run away really fast from any investments that depend on uk being a functioning country. So idk.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> Ye but if he said, we are cutting schools roads healthcare by half, they’d all run away really fast from any investments that depend on uk being a functioning country.


I don't think so. Because cuts in healthcare mean opportunities for private healthcare, for example.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> What is it that they want to see? Taxes up but also specific cuts announced ?



They don't 'want' anything, it's all run by algorithms these days. And those algorithms are deciding public policy.


----------



## magneze (Oct 17, 2022)

Nothing says calm like an emergency statement announcement with a big red background. 🔥


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I don't think so. Because cuts in healthcare mean opportunities for private healthcare, for example.


To a point. Even private healthcare providers have to get to work, need a minimally (in the case of healthcare, maximally) educated workforce etc.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 17, 2022)

Supine said:


> It’s only been open 25 minutes. They’re probably still making coffee


The first 25 minutes are normally when the biggest jumps occur


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

60 billion is the number that they are saying he is supposed to be announcing he's gonna reduce the country's debt by somehow, and then the heating cost cap that truss announced last month is supposed to be costing 150 billion of extra borrowing, so idk, any appeal she may have had being totally shot already maybe they will change it so that not everybody gets that same price cap? Like if the richest people didnt get the same deal as the people who actually need it, thats it.


----------



## magneze (Oct 17, 2022)

Windfall tax perhaps.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> They don't 'want' anything, it's all run by algorithms these days. And those algorithms are deciding public policy.


idk i think its all a lot less rational and more emotional than that. If he did the announcement in a pink glittery suit for instance we'd be fucked, no matter what he actually says, because it's mostly all about feelings.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2022)

magneze said:


> Windfall tax perhaps.


Nah, remember this is Jeremy Hunt we are talking about.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> To a point. Even private healthcare providers have to get to work, need a minimally (in the case of healthcare, maximally) educated workforce etc.


yeh. there's a great supply of staff departing the nhs. and no one's said that shitty roads are actually preventing people getting to work yet


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> idk i think its all a lot less rational and more emotional than that. If he did the announcement in a pink glittery suit for instance we'd be fucked, no matter what he actually says, because it's mostly all about feelings.


it's mostly about kwasi kwarteng's chums turning a profit


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 17, 2022)

Telegraph editorial (published last night)







Mail Online top story this morning






To lose one Tory supporting newspaper may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

Last month they were like this. Took the photo because even then it looked like a mad front page.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sky News have said Ben Wallace via Senior Defence sources has said that MPs now need to stop the plotting against Truss
> 
> So it appears he does not want the top job



He didn't stand before so I wouldn't imagine he'd want it now. Does anybody really want the top job? You get to be PM for two years managing disasters and mitigating the harm done to the party with little authority and probably take a personal reputational battering in the melee. That's not what they came into politics for.

I think Tories have come up with their solution - Truss + Hunt and minimise their losses. Truss ain't going anywhere IMO.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 17, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Despite the ominshambles, permanent crisis in the party and the rest, if the tories end up with some combination of sunak/cunt or that defence bloke, I'd put Labour's chances of winning next time as little more 55-60% .  Kieth is just... nothing, and Labour hasn't really got a narrative or connection with voters.  I do think the tories are done for, because their only way forward is another leadership process, which itself should be fatal.  But ultimately, sunak/cunt/that other bloke will still be fighting a timid empty suit.


The problem for Labour is all this extra support they now suddenly have, little to none of it is due to any actions on their part but rather that the Tories are making themselves so massively unpopular. It can disappear as soon as it appeared.
And you're right abotu Starmer the man is a complete empty suit. He may turn out to be a great PM for all we know but the man has the charisma of the underwear I stuck in the laundry basket last night.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Apparently he's making the public statement this morning now, because it's Monday and the commons doesn't start sitting until this afternoon, and it's considered urgent to get it out there ASAP in an attempt to settle the markets.
> 
> A statement to the commons is now expected around 3.30pm, which will probably be entertaining.



Will Truss be sitting behind him on the front bench when he gets up? With that trademark smirk of hers?

If so, that's gonna be gold. I shall be tuning in.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Will Truss be sitting behind him on the front bench when he gets up? With that trademark smirk of hers?
> 
> If so, that's gonna be gold. I shall be tuning in.



I'll be surprised if she puts in an appearance TBH.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

What a truly truly bonkers situation where Jeremy fucking Hunt is leading us out of economic doom. I mean. Like the world couldn't get any more nuts.


----------



## maomao (Oct 17, 2022)

Knotted said:


> He didn't stand before so I wouldn't imagine he'd want it now. Does anybody really want the top job? You get to be PM for two years managing disasters and mitigating the harm done to the party with little authority and probably take a personal reputational battering in the melee. That's not what they came into politics for.
> 
> I think Tories have come up with their solution - Truss + Hunt and minimise their losses. Truss ain't going anywhere IMO.


The problem for most Tories is not the economy, it's the polls. Keeping Truss would be suicidal.


----------



## maomao (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> What a truly truly bonkers situation where Jeremy fucking Hunt is leading us out of economic doom. I mean. Like the world couldn't get any more nuts.


He's not leading us out of it, he's leading us into a version that's more palatable for markets.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Sky is reporting, following the end of the BoE's support last week, there was still one big pension fund that would have been in serious trouble this morning if the markets had moved in the wrong direction, hence the panic.

This has got to be another nail in the coffin for Truss.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 17, 2022)

maomao said:


> The problem for most Tories is not the economy, it's the polls. Keeping Truss would be suicidal.



I think they're already fucked on that score no matter what happens and they know it. It's all about damage limitation now.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 17, 2022)

He could save a bit by targeting the energy cap relief to households that really need it.
He could increase higher rate taxes.
He could increase CGT and IT.
He could cut defence spending back to where it was.
He could cut HS2.

He could introduce a tax on vapes. (Only joking.)

But none of that would balance the books would it...


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 17, 2022)

Ramping up VAT is always an option. Not a good one. But an option.


----------



## Aladdin (Oct 17, 2022)

I give Truss til Friday. 
She'll fall on her own sword in the interests of the "Party" and the country.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> I give Truss til Friday.
> She'll fall on her own sword in the interests of the "Party" and the country.


she says her interests are the party's interests and so is unlikely to quit on that basis


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 17, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Ramping up VAT is always an option. Not a good one. But an option.


That's the traditional tory tax rise. Clobber everyone.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> I give Truss til Friday.
> She'll fall on her own sword in the interests of the "Party" and the country.



No, she won't. Like Boris she'll be dragged out of there kicking and screaming. I assume the Tories will be changing their leadership election rules after the Boris/Truss debacle where most of the parliamentary party quite reasonably wanted Sunak but ended up with 80,000 absolute idiots voting for an absolutely idiot. It would all be quite funny if it was fucking the country.


----------



## Lorca (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Cuts to services


The Cuntinuity candidate (I thank you!)


----------



## xenon (Oct 17, 2022)

maomao said:


> The problem for most Tories is not the economy, it's the polls. Keeping Truss would be suicidal.



But they can't agree on a vote winning alternative. And it's this that will mean Truss stays.


----------



## xenon (Oct 17, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's the traditional tory tax rise. Clobber everyone.



It was just a temporary rise from 17.5% to 20%. Like the 15% to 17.5% before it. The direction of inevitable change wasn't specified...


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

Jeremy Hunt is either the luckiest politician ever or the canniest. I mean this time last week he was probably sitting in his little backbench office playing wordle. And now he's in charge of the economy and a serious contender to be PM by next week   



> In a sign of the panic within Truss’s government, and the apparent role Hunt now has of being the only person trusted to speak on economic issues, no minister was sent out for the usual morning round of TV and radio interviews on Monday.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 17, 2022)

xenon said:


> It was just a temporary rise from 17.5% to 20%. Like the 15% to 17.5% before it. The direction of inevitable change wasn't specified...


It would be entirely in keeping with Truss's Thatcher tribute act. Doubling VAT was one of the first things Thatcher did.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Jeremy Hunt is either the luckiest politician ever or the canniest. I mean this time last week he was probably sitting in his little backbench office playing wordle. And now he's in charge of the economy and a serious contender to be PM by next week



He's already PM. And he's not lucky to be either.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Jeremy Hunt is either the luckiest politician ever or the canniest. I mean this time last week he was probably sitting in his little backbench office playing wordle. And now he's in charge of the economy and a serious contender to be PM by next week
> 
> 
> > In a sign of the panic within Truss’s government, and the apparent role Hunt now has of being the only person trusted to speak on economic issues,* no minister was sent out for the usual morning round of TV and radio interviews on Monday.*



TBF, Hunt was due to do the media rounds this morning, but pulled out at short notice, so there probably wasn't time to find a replacement to do it.


----------



## killer b (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I mean this time last week he was probably sitting in his little backbench office playing wordle.


He was on holiday


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBF, Hunt was due to do the media rounds this morning, but pulled out at short notice, so there probably wasn't time to find a replacement to do it.


doesn't really speak to his prime ministerial ambitions, if he arranges and then ducks out


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Jeremy Hunt is either the luckiest politician ever or the canniest. I mean this time last week he was probably sitting in his little backbench office playing wordle. And now he's in charge of the economy and a serious contender to be PM by next week


and in the dustbin of history in a fortnight


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

xenon said:


> But they can't agree on a vote winning alternative. And it's this that will mean Truss stays.


there isn't a vote winning alternative. but the question for the tories is do they want sufficient members after the next election to form a shadow cabinet without having to double up portfolios?


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

Knotted said:


> He's already PM. And he's not lucky to be either.



I don't know. I think if he 'saves' the economy he'll come out of this very well. The longer Truss stays there though the better, objectively. Let's see how things stand at COP today.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> No, she won't. Like Boris she'll be dragged out of there kicking and screaming. I assume the Tories will be changing their leadership election rules after the Boris/Truss debacle where most of the parliamentary party quite reasonably wanted Sunak but ended up with 80,000 absolute idiots voting for an absolutely idiot. It would all be quite funny if it was fucking the country.


it is fucking the country


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I don't know. I think if he 'saves' the economy he'll come out of this very well. The longer Truss stays there though the better, objectively. Let's see how things stand at COP today.


the problem is that growing the economy means fucking the planet. and it's not fucking the planet 200 years down the line but right now.


----------



## killer b (Oct 17, 2022)

what would happen if one of the big pension funds fell over?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> doesn't really speak to his prime ministerial ambitions, if he arranges and then ducks out



It was because he suddenly had to change his schedule, bringing forward his forthcoming announcement, after his meeting with the BoE last night, and their warning about one big pension fund could collapse this morning.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It was because he suddenly had to change his schedule, bringing forward his forthcoming announcement, after his meeting with the BoE last night, and their warning about one big pension fund could collapse this morning.


now it'll just collapse tomorrow, conveniently rearranged


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

killer b said:


> what would happen if one of the big pension funds fell over?


there'd be nine big pension funds standing on the wall


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

killer b said:


> what would happen if one of the big pension funds fell over?


Would like to understand this too. There’s obviously a big serious sudden disaster that they’re scrambling to avert but I don’t really get what it is. Maybe BOE couldn’t bail the pension funds or the banks out if gov borrowing rates go impossibly high.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> What a truly truly bonkers situation where Jeremy fucking Hunt is leading us out of economic doom. I mean. Like the world couldn't get any more nuts.


let's wait until he is leading us out of economic doom


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> Would like to understand this too. There’s obviously a big serious sudden disaster that they’re scrambling to avert but I don’t really get what it is. Maybe BOE couldn’t bail them or banks out if the gov borrowing rates go impossibly high.


something to do with their portfolio of shares, which could then affect lots of companies' shares.


----------



## LDC (Oct 17, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Ramping up VAT is always an option. Not a good one. But an option.



He's going to suggest he raises billions by running one of those village fête chuck a sponge at Truss in stocks things on Parliament Square.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

LDC said:


> He's going to suggest he raises billions by running one of those village fête chuck a sponge at Truss in stocks things on Parliament Square.



The would raise more by letting people throw tomatoes at her.

When still in their tins.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> something to do with their portfolio of shares, which could then affect lots of companies' shares.


I think it’s also that pension funds own a lot of the government debt (gilts) which if that becomes something nobody believes will get paid back it’s worthless, so suddenly no pensions for retired people.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 17, 2022)

Has she resigned yet?


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

I mean, I know I've got a warped sense of humour. But this is actually quite funny. Labour doesn't even need to do or say anything. My dog could win the next election if she ran.



> Labour is ahead of the Conservative party on 14 out of 15 policy areas, when voters are asked who would tackle them best, according to Ipsos polling for the Evening Standard.
> 
> As *Nicholas Cecil* reports in his story, Labour is even ahead on managing the economy for the first time since 2007. He says:
> 
> ...


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> No, she won't. Like Boris she'll be dragged out of there kicking and screaming. I assume the Tories will be changing their leadership election rules after the Boris/Truss debacle where most of the parliamentary party quite reasonably wanted Sunak but ended up with 80,000 absolute idiots voting for an absolutely idiot. It would all be quite funny if it was fucking the country.



Unlike Johnson she a) hasn't won an GE b) does not have an organized group within the HoC backing her c) isn't neck and neck in the polls and d) has actively antagonized numerous powerful factions. She might not go this week but she isn't going to see in Christmas in Downing Street.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Unlike Johnson she a) hasn't won an GE b) does not have an organized group within the HoC backing her c) isn't neck and neck in the polls and d) has actively antagonized numerous powerful factions. She might not go this week but she isn't going to see in Christmas in Downing Street.



The Party will need to change its rules I think to get rid of her that quickly?


----------



## ska invita (Oct 17, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Unlike Johnson she a) hasn't won an GE b) does not have an organized group within the HoC backing her c) isn't neck and neck in the polls and d) has actively antagonized numerous powerful factions. She might not go this week but she isn't going to see in Christmas in Downing Street.


she'll always have this photo and those woke bankers cant take that away from her


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

From the political editor at The Times.



ETA -



From HERE.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

ska invita said:


> she'll always have this photo and those woke bankers cant take that away from her



Those are quite optimistic Christmas lights she's got up there!


----------



## Chz (Oct 17, 2022)

All these news alerts that JH will "issue a statement". _sigh_
I expect him to state that he now "rules Bartertown" and would like to be addressed as "Master Blaster".


----------



## kabbes (Oct 17, 2022)

Listening to this statement, I can only say: lol


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

So, basically almost all the tax cuts announced in the mini-budget are gone, except both the NI & stamp duty cuts, as they have already been passed by parliament.

Cuts to dividend tax rates, the IR35 tax changes, VAT-free shopping for tourists, the alcohol duty freeze, and cut in the basic rate of tax, are all gone.

The big thing is that the 'energy price guarantee' will only last until April, instead of 2 years, with a review of what to do going forward.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 17, 2022)

I am also watching the live market ticker as Hunt talks. Nothing. I guess either it already got priced in or it has yet to be digested. Take your pick.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

IR35 is back


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 17, 2022)

gbp:usd price onscreen went from  $1.312 - $1.316

and down to $1.304

See below


----------



## kabbes (Oct 17, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> gbp:usd price onscreen went from  $1.312 - $1.316


That’s just normal volatility though.

(ETA: …and five minutes later, it’s now 1.1304. These are typical ups and downs)


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> That’s just normal volatility though.


Ah
Fair enough, then.


----------



## Supine (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> IR35 is back



Oh ffs!!!


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

Supine said:


> Oh ffs!!!



Yup. Omnishambles doesn't quite do this lot justice. I'm imagining my feed on LinkedIn is melting down.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

i did a prediction that wasn't entirely wrong!  tbh i think that makes sense, giving everyone the same energy price cap for 2 years regardless of whether they needed the help or not sounded nice but yeah, was a bit eat out to help out, if it really was going to cost 150 billion quid better to change that (& destroy the very last bit of truss's 'agenda').


----------



## ska invita (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Those are quite optimistic Christmas lights she's got up there!


its a photo from last christmas when she gave us her heart...you know how the rest of the song goes


----------



## kabbes (Oct 17, 2022)

It was always preposterous to not cap the energy support. Not capping it means you’re giving enormous subsidies to rich people in huge detached houses with swimming pools, stables and so on. Why would you do that?


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> It was always preposterous to not cap the energy support. Not capping it means you’re giving enormous subsidies to rich people in huge detached houses with swimming pools, stables and so on. Why would you do that?


Yep.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> Yep.



I agree. It's like that entire 'mini-budget' was dreamed up while the two of them were off in their faces. Nothing at all about it made sense, including that.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> It was always preposterous to not cap the energy support. Not capping it means you’re giving enormous subsidies to rich people in huge detached houses with swimming pools, stables and so on. Why would you do that?


Yes - and of course all suggestion of green energy has gone out the window with the proposed windfall taxing of the industry ... probably some sort of escalating tariff- with provisions for those with low income but high energy needs...


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Oct 17, 2022)

Has he called it a 'conscious unbudgeting' yet?


----------



## xenon (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> there isn't a vote winning alternative. but the question for the tories is do they want sufficient members after the next election to form a shadow cabinet without having to double up portfolios?



Oh I know. Were I acursed enough to be one of them, I'd see the only way to act now is to get rid of Truss ASAP. But they're not united on this. Many been in the media calling for unity, getting behind the government, stop the plotting now. Group dynamics, who's backing whom, talking to the press etc.  = inertia.

Course if she's gone by Friday, I'll look like a bit of a wolly but that's oK.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

I can’t even spell 150 billion in numbers, but if that’s really what her energy cap promise was costed at and most of that would obviously have gone to subsidise big houses with orangeries then yeah that seems completely mad, I was away but don’t think there was a big reaction at the time saying it was wrong?


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 17, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Yes - and of course all suggestion of green energy has gone out the window with the proposed windfall taxing of the industry ...



That windfall tax on renewable providers seems reasonable. They are receiving electricity rates linked to the gas price despite their input costs not increasing. This was all massive extra shareholder profits and wouldn’t have been invested in new schemes.


----------



## xenon (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The Party will need to change its rules I think to get rid of her that quickly?



Rules can be broken or changed. Only takes the 1922 committee to vote on the latter.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

I wonder whether the new chancellor statement this morning and the one in the Commons this afternoon will help or Hinder the poll rating


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I wonder whether the new chancellor statement this morning and the one in the Commons this afternoon will help or Hinder the poll rating



I can't see any possible improvement in polling until Truss is gone, then it will depend on who is the new PM and how well they perform.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> I can’t even spell 150 billion in numbers, but if that’s really what her energy cap promise was costed at and most of that would obviously have gone to subsidise big houses with orangeries then yeah that seems completely mad, I was away but don’t think there was a big reaction at the time saying it was wrong?


People always focus on what they’re getting and worry about whether those who are already worse off than them are getting more. For some reason, they never look upwards.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The big thing is that the 'energy price guarantee' will only last until April, instead of 2 years, with a review of what to do going forward.


And if I recall correctly at the last PMQs the main thrust of how Truss tried to deflect questions and attack Labour on that occasion was to repeatedly go on about how Labour were failing to declare that they supported it lasting for 2 years.

Truss has trickled down the drain.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

kabbes said:


> People always focus on what they’re getting and worry about whether those who are already worse off than them are getting more. For some reason, they never look upwards.


Quite interesting that isn’t it. But this recent mini budget disaster giveaway for the richest has changed it a bit maybe.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 17, 2022)

So back to square one, mini budget undone, but we get increased mortgage costs anyway.  Oh and some nice price rises down the line.


Yay.


Bonus meme for improving the mood;


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> And if I recall correctly at the last PMQs the main thrust of how Truss tried to deflect questions and attack Labour on that occasion was to repeatedly go on about how Labour were failing to declare that they supported it lasting for 2 years.
> 
> Truss has trickled down the drain.



That, and her absolute promise of no spending cuts, which we now know will be happening and announced on the 31st Oct.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> That, and her absolute promise of no spending cuts, which we now know will be happening and announced on the 31st Oct.


Yeah, at the time I thought she might just have blurted that out without any consideration, since that promise removed most of the remaining wiggle room there was to try to stick to her budget while standing any chance at all of making some of the numbers add up.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 17, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> So back to square one, mini budget undone, but we get increased mortgage costs anyway.  Oh and some nice price rises down the line.


Biggest difference is Tory polling...I expect those other price increases wouldve been coming anyhow


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> Yeah, at the time I thought she might just have blurted that out without any consideration, since that promise removed most of the remaining wiggle room there was to try to stick to her budget while standing any chance at all of making some of the numbers add up.



She always blurts out stuff without proper consideration.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> She always blurts out stuff without proper consideration.


Indeed. Given that Obama thought Cameron was a lightweight, I assume that Truss takes that so much further that she is almost a one person hydrogen economy in herself.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

Tonia Ellwood has told Sky News that this crisis in the Governmet is worst since Suez


----------



## SysOut (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tonia Ellwood has told Sky News that this crisis in the Governmet is worst since Suez


In both cases the U.S. had to give the nudge.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Unlike Johnson she a) hasn't won an GE b) does not have an organized group within the HoC backing her c) isn't neck and neck in the polls and d) has actively antagonized numerous powerful factions. She might not go this week but she isn't going to see in Christmas in Downing Street.


I was going to post something along these lines. To say her position is weak would be an obvious understatement, but she's fucked in pretty much every realm of political and economic life, as you say.  I'm struggling to think of a PM who ever made such a massive strategic mistake and ended up so weak and friendless, with everything she stands for being unraveled in real time.  Not even Neville Chamberlain (quite) ticked all these failure boxes.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tonia Ellwood has told Sky News that this crisis in the Governmet is worst since Suez


Its a shame that blowing my own trumpet fulfils no useful function, since I managed to get black wednesday and suez on my bingo card in this thread a day or two ahead of the crowd.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 17, 2022)

Just had a visit from my first born who tells me that she and her husband took the boys to Blackpool yesterday to see the lights, they popped into Madam Tussauds and apparently they still have Boris Johnson as PM. Eldest Q is apolitical at the best of times but even she wondered if Truss will be PM long enough for it to be worthwhile Tussauds making a wax figure of her.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

As an example of micro-management and public humiliation of his assistant you have to really give to Hunt, not had to suffer from it, but observed it. I've had bosses like that. Poor Liz.


----------



## Aladdin (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> she says her interests are the party's interests and so is unlikely to quit on that basis



Unfortunately, the party doesn't think her interests are the party's. 
Still think she is dead in the water.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> Unfortunately, the party doesn't think her interests are the party's.
> Still think she is dead in the water.


Yeh but she won't quit in the party's interests


----------



## Aladdin (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh but she won't quit in the party's interests



She may need a little push.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

The consequence of building on the deep thoughts of Dubyas 'make the pie higher' by putting the pie in the sky.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Just had a visit from my first born who tells me that she and her husband took the boys to Blackpool yesterday to see the lights, they popped into Madam Tussauds and apparently they still have Boris Johnson as PM. Eldest Q is apolitical at the best of times but even she wondered if Truss will be PM long enough for it to be worthwhile Tussauds making a wax figure of her.


A reminder that all political careers end in failure meltdown.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Wilf said:


> A reminder that all political careers end in failure meltdown.


Like a nuclear meltdown, the reactor core has tricked down into the basement.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> Like a nuclear meltdown, the reactor core has tricked down into the basement.


what a treat


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

find it very hard to give a shit whether she stays or goes what difference does it make?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

Tory MP Mark Garnier has just said on BBC Radio 5Live that he would be up for A General election only if if his party change leaders


----------



## Supine (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> find it very hard to give a shit whether she stays or goes what difference does it make?



Our Liz killed the queen, banned the king from a climate conference, impoverished a nation and turned the national trust against the conservatives.  Just imagine how things would go if we really gave her time to get stuck in.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> find it very hard to give a shit whether she stays or goes what difference does it make?


longer she stays more chance of a labour government? 
contain your excitement


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> So back to square one, mini budget undone, but we get increased mortgage costs anyway.  Oh and some nice price rises down the line.
> 
> 
> Yay.
> ...


to be fair, he simply said that the prime minister, code named boxer, had been sent to the hospital in willingdon


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 17, 2022)

Wilf said:


> A reminder that all political careers end in failure meltdown.



It does usually take more than a few weeks though tbf.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> find it very hard to give a shit whether she stays or goes what difference does it make?


Some people tried to spoil the mood in the end of Johnson thread via the same sentiments, but we can now see that his successor made a notable difference to the political future of this country.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It does usually take more than a few weeks though tbf.


yeh but accelerationism means we'll be seeing more of this speedy rise and fall


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Musical interlude.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

Chunt appears to be delivering the final blow, in real time. She can't survive this surely? Not even her vaunted energy price guarantee (they've guaranteed you'll all pay double)


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

is Chunt "The Fucker", from Thick Of It?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 17, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


>


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 17, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> View attachment 347562


Moar of this please. Get her on the telly.


----------



## A380 (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Chunt appears to be delivering the final blow, in real time. She can't survive this surely? Not even her vaunted energy price guarantee *(they've guaranteed you'll all pay double)*



BiB, they haven't, there will be a review of how support continues after April, i.e. a more targeted approach, we will have to wait and see how that works, no need to panic.

Yet.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 17, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> That windfall tax on renewable providers seems reasonable. They are receiving electricity rates linked to the gas price despite their input costs not increasing. This was all massive extra shareholder profits and wouldn’t have been invested in new schemes.


Indeed, best would be to tax any profits that aren't invested back into renewables, though. Otherwise it's cutting investment in new schemes. Is that how they've done it?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 17, 2022)

Ok I have a five minute lunch break, what's happened so far today?


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 17, 2022)

I can't believe anyone could think she can brazen this out-really unimaginable!!


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 17, 2022)

I can't believe anyone could think she can brazen this out-really unimaginable!!


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 17, 2022)

I can't believe anyone could think she can brazen this out-really unimaginable!!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> find it very hard to give a shit whether she stays or goes what difference does it make?



As with Johnson, it's mostly a case of she's awful and I want her to be ruined and humiliated. Will it help? No, but it'll cheer me up for half a beat.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 17, 2022)

Oh ballsed that up bloody signal soz


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Oh ballsed that up bloody signal soz


A better apology than Truss manages when she repeats her lines.


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Oh ballsed that up bloody signal soz



Say that again?


----------



## JimW (Oct 17, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Oh ballsed that up bloody signal soz


Just brazen it out, it's all the rage these days.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> As with Johnson, it's mostly a case of she's awful and I want her to be ruined and humiliated. Will it help? No, but it'll cheer me up for half a beat.


Probably a more horrible humiliating experience for her to stay on now, with no authority at all and no mates.  Which makes it even harder to care either way imo.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 17, 2022)

I was expecting a progression through "I can't believe anyone could think that anyone could imagine she can brazen this out-really unimaginable!!"


----------



## Raheem (Oct 17, 2022)

Have a feeling we won't see her until Strictly Come Dancing next year.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## killer b (Oct 17, 2022)

I always check the clickbait satire twitter accounts when I'm looking for the latest insights and analysis on what's going on too


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 17, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ok I have a five minute lunch break, what's happened so far today?


The parachuted-in chancellor to my naive eye looks more prime-ministerial than the current one or the previous one if not three  - albeit on a very narrow area of policy and tidying up the horrific mess made by a coked-up psycho via his "boss"


----------



## Petcha (Oct 17, 2022)

Was there any mention of raising UC in line with inflation as the the 5th to last Chancellor promised?


----------



## weepiper (Oct 17, 2022)

This pretty much an admission that it's over, isn't it?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2022)

killer b said:


> I always check the clickbait satire twitter accounts when I'm looking for the latest insights and analysis on what's going on too


Good for you.

edited. To be fair, I put it in the wrong thread, Mods can you move it if it upsets people please.


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

If she doesn’t step down that would indicate a level of crazy that is quite staggering. Imagine trying to muscle past this degree of public humiliation. The entire world has seen how incompetent she is. 

If she tries to stay that would tell me she’s either psychopathically incapable of owning her shit, or pathologically incapable of self knowledge. Oh, wait. She’s a Tory so…


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 17, 2022)

Is there another layer going on here in terms of reclaiming the party from the psychos - having allowed them to do something really stupid and then deploying Captain Sensible ?


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Was there any mention of raising UC in line with inflation as the the 5th to last Chancellor promised?



As if…


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Was there any mention of raising UC in line with inflation as the the 5th to last Chancellor promised?



No, government spending will be set out on the 31st Oct. as planned, this announcement was just to undo the clusterfuck of the mini-budget, basically a holding position.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

weepiper said:


> This pretty much an admission that it's over, isn't it?



Wow really cant face up to the problems


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 17, 2022)

New prediction. Next time Truss appears to speak in public, it will be to resign. 

This may not be today, rate we're going.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 17, 2022)

killer b said:


> I always check the clickbait satire twitter accounts when I'm looking for the latest insights and analysis on what's going on too


I just come here. It's much quicker.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

BBC live updates page has stuff like:



> A former cabinet minister has told me Hunt's economic statement just now confirmed that Truss "is a goner, it put it beyond any doubt".
> 
> They continued: "What is the point of Liz Truss? That is the question... there is literally no point."
> 
> Another MP says: “The whole basis of her premiership is shredded… she needs a way out”







__





						Loading…
					





					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## killer b (Oct 17, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> New prediction. Next time Truss appears to speak in public, it will be to resign.
> 
> This may not be today, rate we're going.


It is difficult to imagine how she's going to get past PMQs at the moment tbh, so possibly some time before then. But who knows. Maybe she enjoys the humiliation.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> BBC live updates page has stuff like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To add that Newsnight Political Editor has said on the world at one on BBC radio 4 has said he has heard that her own team thinks she will be gone this week


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 17, 2022)

The lettuce is looking confident!


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> to be fair, he simply said that the prime minister, code named boxer, had been sent to the hospital in willingdon


The Stakhanovite thing doesn't work with this shower but sure we can all get behind the knacker's yard destination.


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 17, 2022)

Wrong thread


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Is there another layer going on here in terms of reclaiming the party from the psychos - having allowed them to do something really stupid and then deploying Captain Sensible ?



Perhaps the whole thing was a kind of experiment to see how much RW pull the markets and the polls would stand. So they won’t be expunged, just put back in their box til the next time. Or til they get a smarter batch.







Pickman's model  I don’t think they’re consciously going for accelerationism, it’s just happening as a spontaneous artefact of their push to go further R.


----------



## JimW (Oct 17, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> The lettuce is looking confident!


Salad with better spin than the PM.


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

killer b said:


> It is difficult to imagine how she's going to get past PMQs at the moment tbh, so possibly some time before then. But who knows. Maybe she enjoys the humiliation.




Well if the rumours about her being a collared slave are true…

If that’s the case then presumably it’s her Dom who’s been calling the shots these last few weeks.


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

weepiper said:


> This pretty much an admission that it's over, isn't it?



Their brass neck never ceases to amaze so 🤷‍♀️.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 17, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ok I have a five minute lunch break, what's happened so far today?


She still hasn't resigned


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> BBC live updates page has stuff like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Truss is a gooner?  Hope not.


----------



## Voley (Oct 17, 2022)

I don't think I can recall a bigger political U Turn than this by anyone.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 17, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Truss is a gooner?  Hope not.


Starmer is...its endemic


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

killer b said:


> It is difficult to imagine how she's going to get past PMQs at the moment tbh, so possibly some time before then. But who knows. Maybe she enjoys the humiliation.



Its partly a question of whether they can get one of the prototype stand-ins working in time for PMQs.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 17, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Was there any mention of raising UC in line with inflation as the the 5th to last Chancellor promised?



"Difficult decisions have to be made" etc etc...


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

Voley said:


> I don't think I can recall a bigger political U Turn than this by anyone.


Famous last words. 🍿


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

story said:


> Pickman's model  I don’t think they’re consciously going for accelerationism, it’s just happening as a spontaneous artefact of their push to go further R.


indeed it's not something they're doing voluntarily or consciously but as viewers of the sandman will know, there are vortices around whom events spin and liz truss is one of these. unless she's swiftly dealt with the centripetal forces she is unleashing will have horrendous consequences not only for us but for the remainder of the multiverse too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Voley said:


> I don't think I can recall a bigger political U Turn than this by anyone.


maybe you weren't paying attention at the time


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 17, 2022)

story said:


> Well if the rumours about her being a collared slave are true…
> 
> If that’s the case then presumably it’s her Dom who’s been calling the shots these last few weeks.


Have you seen the Peter Oborne video on Doubledown where he uses movie clips to portray her as a posh flapper ?


----------



## Voley (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> maybe you weren't paying attention at the time


Probably true. 

I'm struggling to recall another politician U-turning on their entire philosophy. Not in 3 weeks anyhow. 

Still: 🍿


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

The likes of the BBC have started paying more attention to the bedding odds.


----------



## Numbers (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> indeed it's not something they're doing voluntarily or consciously but as viewers of the sandman will know, there are vortices around whom events spin and liz truss is one of these. unless she's swiftly dealt with the centripetal forces she is unleashing will have horrendous consequences not only for us but for the remainder of the multiverse too.


That would read brilliantly on screen in the style of the Star Wars intros.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 17, 2022)

Mrs Idris tells me that there's now a rumour that Truss and Kwarteng are shagging - I said that her office is probably spreading that one to humanise her image.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2022)

JimW said:


> Salad with better spin than the PM.


Ah, Giles Radice, never made it to be PM.

(One for our older viewers   )


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2022)

Idris2002 said:


> Mrs Idris tells me that there's now a rumour that Truss and Kwarteng are shagging - I said that her office is probably spreading that one to humanise her image.


Well, I suppose they'll both have time on their hands soon. The Devil makes work etc.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 17, 2022)

Idris2002 said:


> Idris tells me that there's now a rumour that Truss and Kwarteng are shagging - I said that her office is probably spreading that one to humanise her image.



🤢


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Numbers said:


> That would read brilliantly on screen in the style of the Star Wars intros.


a long time ago
in a galaxy far far away


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 17, 2022)

weepiper said:


> This pretty much an admission that it's over, isn't it?




I'm not quite sure why Mordaunt would go to be honest. If ever there's a time to tell the PM to go fuck herself and get off the sinking ship now would seem to be it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Idris2002 said:


> Mrs Idris tells me that there's now a rumour that Truss and Kwarteng are shagging - I said that her office is probably spreading that one to humanise her image.


yeh this is auld news


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> a long time ago
> in a galaxy far far away


If only..


----------



## SysOut (Oct 17, 2022)

I'm looking forward to her book.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

SysOut said:


> I'm looking forward to her book.


no one else is


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'm not quite sure why Mordaunt would go to be honest. If ever there's a time to tell the PM to go fuck herself and get off the sinking ship now would seem to be it.


yeh but what better platform to fuck truss over from than at the dispatch box in the house of commons


----------



## moochedit (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> a long time ago
> in a galaxy far far away


I wish truss was in a galaxy far far away


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2022)

The sense of having fucked everything up in the realms of politics, economics, finance and presentation: it's like waking up after a bender, being vaguely aware the police were involved, a memory of throwing up on the cat, one shoe, no wallet and a traffic cone stuck up yer arse.  It's like that for liz 24/7.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The sense of having fucked everything up in the realms of politics, economics, finance and presentation: it's like waking up after a bender, being vaguely aware the police were involved, a memory of throwing up on the cat, one shoe, no wallet and a traffic cone stuck up yer arse.  It's like that for liz 24/7.


I hope you’re right but I kind of doubt it. Reckon she thinks she did nothing wrong, world failed to understand or appreciate her genius, she’s too far ahead of her time .

Who invented this horrible pretend word “trussonomics” was it her.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 17, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'm not quite sure why Mordaunt would go to be honest. If ever there's a time to tell the PM to go fuck herself and get off the sinking ship now would seem to be it.



She gets to look Prime Ministerial.

On the boring - actually not boring - front, Mordaunt is Lord President of the Council. The Council advises the Monarch on stuff like who should be PM - for example....

During WW2 the Lord President held an overarching Economic security role. which, one might argue, could be relevant.

She's also one of the few Cabinet members who don't appear to be either drunk, coked up, or having a stroke at the dispatch box. Calms the troops somewhat...


----------



## two sheds (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> I hope you’re right but I kind of doubt it. Reckon she thinks she did nothing wrong, world failed to understand or appreciate her genius, she’s too far ahead of her time .


defeated by the treasonous anti-growth coalition


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> I hope you’re right but I kind of doubt it. Reckon she thinks she did nothing wrong, world failed to understand or appreciate her genius, she’s too far ahead of her time .
> 
> Who invented this horrible pretend word “trussonomics” was it her.


Yep, there'll be cognitive dissonance along with a fair bit of 'why didn't the markets/Bank of England understand what we were doing'?  She'll also be angry at all the sycophants who supported her leadership campaign but have gone very quiet.  I was going to say there'll be a bunker mentality -  inevitable Downfall - but actually she's not managed to even build a bunker it's been such a short space of time.  She got the hat to wear, but her predecessor's name is still on the door.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 17, 2022)

"Truss and Kwarteng sitting in a tree, K.I.S.S.I.N.G." seems charmingly innocent and normal for the Tories, the party of autoerotic asphyxiation.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Well Truss gets to meet with two Tory groups in the next two days so how that goes should contribute to determining the timing of her fate and the extent of her remaining resolve. Still has to survive PMQs even then.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> no one else is



tbf if you have a log burner in your house
you could buy the knock down price books for heating purposes

one book that i would not see a problem burning


----------



## izz (Oct 17, 2022)

As an aside, as the markets tanked shortly after the minibudge, are we now calling Truss and Kamikwazi the 'anti-growth coalition' ?


----------



## JimW (Oct 17, 2022)

Assimilated by the ERG


----------



## A380 (Oct 17, 2022)

Please let her hang on a bit. She hasn’t done all the damage to the Tory Party she is capable of yet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> tbf if you have a log burner in your house
> you could buy the knock down price books for heating purposes
> 
> one book that i would not see a problem burning


tbh there's loads of books i wouldn't have a problem burning. jeffrey archer's novels, for example.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 17, 2022)

A380 said:


> Please let her hang on a bit. She hasn’t done all the damage to the Tory Party she is capable of yet.




At this point you'd hang in just out of spite wouldn't you? It must be tempting


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

JimW said:


> Assimilated by the ERG


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 17, 2022)

Keef made a funny.
'The lady is not for turning......up .


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

JimW said:


> Assimilated by the ERG


Sound like their the Borg from Star trek


----------



## JimW (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sound like their the Borg from Star trek


Yes, went with that but also sound like the evil terror agency in a Bond movie.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 17, 2022)

Mordaunt is pretty good at the commons stuff. Pretty skilled politician. How on earth did they end up with Truss?


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

She's going to be the replacement isn't she, this is like an audition for the role of 'sane person' and they all love her.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

she's  in  a fridge


----------



## xenon (Oct 17, 2022)

Hang in there Liz!

The after dinner speech shtick isn't really gonna work out for you.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

jesus how many times can penny mention the note when they took power it was 12 years ago


----------



## kebabking (Oct 17, 2022)

I wouldn't fall of my chair if it became known that Truss was _unable to perform her duties_ - makes it all a lot easier, no shame in standing down etc..

Easy to let it be put about that the Queen's death had knocked her for 6 - probably true - and let it all just go away...


----------



## belboid (Oct 17, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Mordaunt is pretty good at the commons stuff. Pretty skilled politician. How on earth did they end up with Truss?


She started off quite well.  But rather quickly became over reliant on ‘but we’re delaying a really important statement’ line rather too much, even she looked like she was getting bored by saying it.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

kebabking said:


> I wouldn't fall of my chair if it became known that Truss was _unable to perform her duties_ - makes it all a lot easier, no shame in standing down etc..
> 
> Easy to let it be put about that the Queen's death had knocked her for 6 - probably true - and let it all just go away...



amazed its be stated that she has covid


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 17, 2022)

What do we reckon the "genuine reason" Truss hasn't turned up today is?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> What do we reckon the "genuine reason" Truss hasn't turned up today is?



She has had a breakdown.

No one can find the L2T2 charger.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 17, 2022)

she's frit?


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

Mordaunt not denying she wants to replace her


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

apparently, very disappointingly, its normal for the pm to delegate the answering of 'urgent questions' like this. But also they definitely locked truss in the toilets.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

Is the PM on her way to the Commons? 

Just seen pics on sky News a motorcade leaving Downing Street?


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

it normal for her to delegate to her deputy prime minister


she currently sat silent next to Penny


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Is the PM on her way to the Commons?
> 
> Just seen pics on sky News a motorcade leaving Downing Street?



where is Charles


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Is the PM on her way to the Commons?
> 
> Just seen pics on sky News a motorcade leaving Downing Street?


Probably Hunt? He is due to speak in parliament.


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> What do we reckon the "genuine reason" Truss hasn't turned up today is?


Can't be arsed? Got pished last night and is still trying to sleep it off?


----------



## neonwilderness (Oct 17, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> Mordaunt not denying she wants to replace her


Did the speaker just refer to her as PM? 

I'm not watching, only have the sound on in the background while working.


----------



## weepiper (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> Probably Hunt? He is due to speak in parliament.


Truss according to this journalist


Is she off to resign to Charlie?


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Media enjoying this.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Truss according to this journalist
> 
> 
> Is she off to resign to Charlie?



Ooh could be I suppose. Or she is just going to turn up in parliament for the chancellors speech.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Truss according to this journalist
> 
> 
> Is she off to resign to Charlie?




just what i was thinking


----------



## Serene (Oct 17, 2022)

Shes too arrogant to go to parliament and face it.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

Some people on the internet are theorising that Truss is on her way to Ukraine right now, i can imagine it, next time we see her she'll be all dressed up as a soldier striding about. Would be a massive error but then thats her speciality.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> Ooh could be I suppose. Or she is just going to turn up in parliament for the chancellors speech.


Though the chancellor already spoke earlier? Or are they u turning already?


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Though the chacellor already spoke earlier? Or are they u turning already?


He spoke on telly earlier, he has to speak in parliament once this Mordaunt stuff is done. 4.30pm-ish.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

"is the PM on the way to the palace"

not denied


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> What do we reckon the "genuine reason" Truss hasn't turned up today is?


Something good I'll wager...caught in a bind choosing whether to eat after eight mints before 8pm


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> Some people on the internet are theorising that Truss is on her way to Ukraine right now, i can imagine it, next time we see her she'll be all dressed up as a soldier striding about. Would be a massive error but then thats her speciality.



unless she going to start world war 3 i think she still fooked


----------



## moochedit (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> He spoke on telly earlier, he has to speak in parliament once this Mordaunt stuff is done.



Ah ok. Isn't that a bit unusual to announce   tax stuff out of parliament?


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 17, 2022)

Sounds like Liz Truss is doing a Jack Bauer to thwart a terrorist attack that is due to happen in the next 24 hours


----------



## Wilf (Oct 17, 2022)

Not really a good look when the 2 people who are defending you are called Mordor and Cunt.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

Someone


moochedit said:


> Ah ok. Isn't that a bit unusual to announce   tax stuff out of parliament?


Part of his statement on telly involved mentioning that he spoke to the speaker to deal with that - the excuse for speaking earlier on tv before announcing the stuff in parliament was that they had to act quickly to calm the markets.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

Isn't Coffey deputy PM?


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

aye think she would get mauled if she was answering the questions

coward 


this is Penny giving a job interview on the fly


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> Someone
> 
> Part of his statement on telly involved mentioning that he spoke to the speaker to deal with that - the excuse for speaking earlier on tv before announcing the stuff in parliament was that they had to act quickly to calm the markets.


they have no regard for the democratic norms of their own assembly, and even less for any (non-market) people outside their gates.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Isn't Coffey deputy PM?


well spotted


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Isn't Coffey deputy PM?



Yes, but they wouldn't trust her to handle this, or indeed to make a cup of coffee TBH.

Mordaunt is leader of the house.


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

Trussbot has arrived


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

It’s very unusual moochedit but as elbows says extraordinary circumstances allow for extraordinary responses, and Hunt sought special permission from the speaker to jump the gun to stabilise the markets.


----------



## Santino (Oct 17, 2022)

My "the Prime Minister is not hiding under a desk" t-shirt is raising a lot of questions already answered by my t-shirt.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Truss has arrived!


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Isn't Coffey deputy PM?



The fact that Mordaunt was given this brief speaks to how much confidence anyone has in Coffey’s abilities .


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

Jesus, this is desperate stuff


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

So she could not turn up for an Urgent Question but turns up for the Chancellor what does that tell us


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> So she could not turn up for an Urgent Question but turns up for the Chancellor what does that tell us



her boss told her to get up from under the desk


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> So she could not turn up for an Urgent Question but turns up for the Chancellor what does that tell us



That she was hiding under a desk


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

I can't bear listening to Hoyle, he sounds like a man about to die drawing breath


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

hmm difficulties cause by Truss


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

Why the hell is PM Smiling for gods sake


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

she only has one expression programmed


----------



## Raheem (Oct 17, 2022)

"Just sit there as still as you can, Liz, and think about your happy place."


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

Why is the Anti Growth man talking?


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

Liz avoiding Penny Gaze


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

Raheem said:


> "Just sit there as still as you can, Liz, and think about your happy place."


Hint: it's not number 10


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

so inflation to spike again in April


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

a new advisory council, based in Tufton street I Imagine


----------



## neonwilderness (Oct 17, 2022)

I thought we'd all had enough of experts?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Why the hell is PM Smiling for gods sake



That smile didn't last long, she seems to be trying to smile again now, but there's a glitch in her software.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 17, 2022)

Rachel Reeves hosted butchered her and she is still smiling


----------



## 8ball (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> That smile didn't last long, she seems to be trying to smile again now, but there's a glitch in her software.



Tech support are on the case.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Rachel Reeves hosted butchered her and she is still smiling


what's that you say?


----------



## weepiper (Oct 17, 2022)

Maybe the very good reason was that she's drunk 🤔


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 17, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Mordaunt is pretty good at the commons stuff. Pretty skilled politician. How on earth did they end up with Truss?



They're forever held hostage by the loons. Mordaunt was the obvious choice among the serious contenders, so of course she had to be stopped. 

It was _almost_ unfair on Truss to give her the job in the first place. It's not her fault she's got shit for brains. If you leave your toddler alone with a toolbox and he puts his eye out with a screwdriver, that's your fault not the kid's.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

I don't think much of the support band


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 17, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Isn't Coffey deputy PM?



Only because Harold Shipman was unavailable.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Maybe the very good reason was that she's drunk 🤔


too much for blinking for someone not on the sauce


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Only because Harold Shipman was unavailable.


Isn't that why she's NHS secretary?


----------



## Raheem (Oct 17, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Isn't that why she's NHS secretary?


She's NHS secretary because she told Truss she could do 40 wpm.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

"because of the GLOBAL financial crisis that happened on her party's watch"

WTAF?


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

hunt talking about the NHS

hmm was with 3 doctors yesterday at a christening

won't repeat what they said about Hunt


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Maybe the very good reason was that she's drunk 🤔


I thought maybe horribly hungover from last night but pissed now would also work.


----------



## LDC (Oct 17, 2022)

Fuck's sake, Truss is so publicly humiliated, sitting there quiet as Hunt and Mordaunt answer questions far more competently than she could dream of.

I thought she'd stay, but surely she can't survive this.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

not even a comment from the pm

quick escape with the leader of the house 

tragic shit show


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 17, 2022)

Truss has virtually ran out of the commons.


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

liz truss's helpless ridiculous face. Have to admit i kind of feel sorry for her, she should never have been let anywhere near this job.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 17, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Truss has virtually ran out of the commons.


Hopefully she makes it to a sink in time.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> liz truss's helpless ridiculous face. have to admit i kind of feel sorry for her, she should never have been let anywhere near this job.



cannie feel sorry for anyone wanting to do a maggie impersonation and it failing immediately


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> cannie feel sorry for anyone wanting to do a maggie impersonation and it failing immediately


i'll stop feeling sorry for her in a minute. was excrutiating though looking at her stupid blank face, her eyes darting everywhere weird nervous movements of her jaw. Think it has dawned on her that her whole life she's been deluded about her own abilities.


----------



## LDC (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> i'll stop feeling sorry for her in a minute. was excrutiating though looking at her stupid blank face, her eyes darting everywhere weird nervous movements of her jaw.



She looked like she'd necked a few tranquilizers to me.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

line of Mandy on the way to parliament

would explain the expression


----------



## kebabking (Oct 17, 2022)

LDC said:


> She looked like she'd necked a few tranquilizers to me.




Vlad. A missing submarine. Families.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 17, 2022)

more tax from rich bankers  🤣


----------



## agricola (Oct 17, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> Sounds like Liz Truss is doing a Jack Bauer to thwart a terrorist attack that is due to happen in the next 24 hours



not likely, the only way she could thwart a terrorist attack is to organize it


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

I just want an end to these fuckers. What will it take? I'll do it!


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 17, 2022)

So being Prime Minister isn't as easy as briefing the press after a cabinet meeting and taking stupid photos of yourself posing in someone else's clothes on instagram.

Who knew.

I don't feel a scintilla of pity for her. She was more than happy to throw 99% of the country under the bus to benefit the likes of Crispin Odey and shadowy dark money backers who have basically bought the Tory Party. The damage that pair of wingnuts did will hobble the country and most of its citizens for the foreseeable future.

I hope she drowns, alone, in her own shite. That's being kind, and probably marginally less humiliating a fate than the afternoon she just had in the house.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> cannie feel sorry for anyone wanting to do a maggie impersonation and it failing immediately


Maybe her trip to Brighton will go with a bang


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> So being Prime Minister isn't as easy as briefing the press after a cabinet meeting and taking stupid photos of yourself posing in someone else's clothes on instagram.
> 
> Who knew.
> 
> ...


I hope she drowns in her own shite in front of other people who step back and let nature take its course


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> So being Prime Minister isn't as easy as briefing the press after a cabinet meeting and taking stupid photos of yourself posing in someone else's clothes on instagram.
> 
> Who knew.
> 
> ...


But what do you really think? You need to stop mincing your words.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 17, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The sense of having fucked everything up in the realms of politics, economics, finance and presentation: it's like waking up after a bender, being vaguely aware the police were involved, a memory of throwing up on the cat, one shoe, no wallet and a traffic cone stuck up yer arse.  It's like that for liz 24/7.


That was a great night out wasn't it?


----------



## bimble (Oct 17, 2022)

somebody employed to do infographics at the daily mail made this thing today.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Oct 17, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


>



The neoliberal genius of the consolidator state is always to be in debt to the money markets; nothing then can happen without their say so.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 17, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> What do we reckon the "genuine reason" Truss hasn't turned up today is?


I wouldn't turn up tbf


----------



## Cid (Oct 17, 2022)

She actually turned up at some point then? Just... Decide you daft fuck. Probably awkwardly bumped into someone from work while browsing the aisles at Fortum and Mason.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 17, 2022)

Where does she see herself in five years time? I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here? 

Anthony Eden bred a herd of cows after resigning, but he still retained considerable popularity.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 17, 2022)

Positioning herself there knowing the cameras are on her must be making her very self-conscious ...


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

Cid said:


> She actually turned up at some point then? Just... Decide you daft fuck. Probably awkwardly bumped into someone from work while browsing the aisles at Fortum and Mason.


Caught pulling a sickie.


----------



## JimW (Oct 17, 2022)

I'm not going to school today; the teachers hate me, the kids hate me, even the dinner ladies hate me.
You have to go, you're the headmaster.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> Caught pulling a sickie.


She didn't want to go to work because all the big kids were calling her nasty names


----------



## Cid (Oct 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> Caught pulling a sickie.



Exactly. We've all been there. The shame-faced 'oh, it was horrible headache, feeling much better, I'll er... I was just buying a snack on my way in'.


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

Cid said:


> Exactly. We've all been there. The shame-faced 'oh, it was horrible headache, feeling much better, I'll er... I was just buying a snack on my way in'.


Nah, better to brazen it out. 'Just picking up a prescription, feeling really rough, need to get back to bed.'


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 17, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Where does she see herself in five years time? I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here?


Deffo not the dancing show ...
Peter Oborne imagined Truss in "The Great Gatsby" - but imagine Truss actually dancing ?
May mk 2. in terms of physical awkwardness...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 17, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Deffo not the dancing show ...
> Peter Oborne imagined Truss in "The Great Gatsby" - but imagine Truss actually dancing ?
> May mk 2. in terms of physical awkwardness...


Truss only dances when she can stamp on the skulls of children


----------



## bcuster (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> somebody employed to do infographics at the daily mail made this thing today.
> View attachment 347602


----------



## Sue (Oct 17, 2022)

bimble said:


> somebody employed to do infographics at the daily mail made this thing today.
> View attachment 347602


It's missing Captain Tom and the Queen in heaven. And no Paddington.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 17, 2022)

its been said before i know but there was something distinctly odd with the way Truss just sat there blinking like a poisoned wood pidgeon.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 17, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> its been said before i know but there was something distinctly odd with the way Truss just sat there blinking like a poisoned wood pidgeon.


Stress, shock, trauma. She must feel like a nurse after a 16 hour shift.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 17, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> its been said before i know but there was something distinctly odd with the way Truss just sat there blinking like a poisoned wood pidgeon.


Weekend At Truss's


----------



## story (Oct 17, 2022)

Dom Traynor said:


> Stress, shock, trauma. She must feel like a nurse after a 16 hour shift.



Doubt it.
She’s not been saving lives.
Although, trashing stuff must also be quite stressy


----------



## two sheds (Oct 17, 2022)

She's got a job for life with the Pork and Cheese Marketing Boards.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 17, 2022)

two sheds said:


> She's got a job for life with the Pork and Cheese Marketing Boards.



I wanted that job.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 17, 2022)

two sheds said:


> She's got a job for life with the Pork and Cheese Marketing Boards.


That. Is. A. Etc...


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2022)

There are plenty of attempts to suggest some new spirit of unity this evening, including the idea that changing the leader would add to the market turmoil.

But there is also still stuff like this:


----------



## moochedit (Oct 17, 2022)

Sue said:


> Caught pulling a sickie.


Has she had an Atos assessment?


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 17, 2022)




----------



## CyberRose (Oct 18, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> What do we reckon the "genuine reason" Truss hasn't turned up today is?


You know the more Mordaunt kept repeating that there was a genuine reason Truss couldn't answer the UQ, the more I started to think she might have suffered some kind of medical issue and I started to feel a little guilty/awkward at the constant asking where she was. Turns out she was meeting with Graham Brady...


Apart from Graham Brady was in the Commons listening to Mordaunt's answer...


Here he is at 3:50...


Hmmmmmm...


----------



## Raheem (Oct 18, 2022)

Maybe "meeting with Graham Brady" is druggie slang.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 18, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Maybe "meeting with Graham Brady" is druggie slang.



Dogging slang


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 18, 2022)

So ducking out of an UQ too meet someone who could not have been in two places at the same time is one heck of an excuse

Maybe I should try that to get out of something I dont want too do


----------



## two sheds (Oct 18, 2022)

Let's not be harsh, perhaps Brady had left her on her own to read all the letters he'd been sent.


----------



## TomUS (Oct 18, 2022)

Media is saying she's on her way out already......amazing.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

I think she might go today

A deal done with the dark lords of the Tories

Surely she can't face another pmqs?


----------



## kabbes (Oct 18, 2022)

Future dictionaries will simply have Liz Truss’ face next to the entry for “Dunning-Kruger”.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 18, 2022)

The adult version of 'are we there yet?' is now 'has she gone yet?'


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Future dictionaries will simply have Liz Truss’ face next to the entry for “Dunning-Kruger”.



The Dunning-Kruger effect aka the Truss effect.

People who correctly assess somebody's incompetence but still aid their rise for reasons of self-interest: Trussafarians


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 18, 2022)

FT Hacks taking a certain amount of enjoyment in their work. 

Trussonomics abandoned as UK re-embraces financial orthodoxy - Financial Times (archived)



> Jeremy Hunt went to parliament on Monday to bury Trussonomics, not to praise it. In a knifing fit for Shakespeare’s _Julius Caesar_, the chancellor vanquished the rightwing “mini” Budget that Liz Truss had used to put forward £45bn of unfunded tax cuts. (...)





> A recently-departed senior Treasury official said: “Liz Truss picked a fight with economic orthodoxy and the orthodoxy won.” (...)



Time running out for Truss, say Tory MPs - Financial Times (archived)



> There were two prime ministerial performances in the House of Commons on Monday, but neither of them were delivered by Liz Truss.
> The first, by House of Commons leader Penny Mordaunt, reminded Tories of what it is to have a leader who can command the chamber. When she assured MPs that the prime minister was not “hiding under a desk”, the Commons burst into laughter. (...)





> George Osborne, the former Tory chancellor, has nicknamed Truss “PINO”, or “prime minister in name only”.



🤣


----------



## prunus (Oct 18, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Maybe "meeting with Graham Brady" is druggie slang.



Aye. I had a full symposium with him last Friday, got very messy.


----------



## Santino (Oct 18, 2022)

Graham Brady is rhyming slang for White Lady. 

"Hey, have you seen Graham anywhere?"

"Yes, I'm meeting him in the bathroom later."


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 18, 2022)

In a sense Truss has already gone. Her weird 1980’s nostalgia act is palpably dead: economically, politically and as a source of power.

Hunt has steered the ship to where the markets and the media expect, relentlessly focussed on the grown up politics required: spending cuts, attacks on workers pay, attacks on benefits, a war on the non existent state etc.

It’s worth remembering that Johnson was defeated by his own MPs, Truss and Kwarteng by the market. Bizarrely cheered on by some who should know better. A half competent leader committed to a serious war on the poor and battle with the organised working class will bring Party, market, business and the media back together. The task of building consent for austerity 2.0 has already begun across the media. 

That would be a problem for Labour which currently has _nothing _to say as to what it would do differently (indicating that Hunt has stolen their plan). It will also be a challenge for us: can we build the necessary broad based campaign in workplaces and communities to finish these bastards off around two simple demands: tax the rich, no return to austerity.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 18, 2022)

I'll lead Tories into next election, says embattled Liz Truss
					

The PM apologises for mistakes, after her chancellor tears up almost all of her tax-cutting agenda.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				



I 100% support this.


----------



## bimble (Oct 18, 2022)

Can't begin to imagine how embarrassing this all is for her poor dad. 





						John Truss - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> In a sense Truss has already gone. Her weird 1980’s nostalgia act is palpably dead: economically, politically and as a source of power.
> 
> Hunt has steered the ship to where the markets and the media expect, relentlessly focussed on the grown up politics required: spending cuts, attacks on workers pay, attacks on benefits, a war on the non existent state etc.
> 
> ...


Not if Enough is Enough is any indication as it clearly has become little more than a talking shop and a pressure valve that the Tories benefit from.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I'll lead Tories into next election, says embattled Liz Truss
> 
> 
> The PM apologises for mistakes, after her chancellor tears up almost all of her tax-cutting agenda.
> ...


So do I, won't happen they'll make sure of that


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 18, 2022)

The Daily Mail demonstrates that if there's one thing it hates more than woke 'socialists' it's losers.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 18, 2022)

some turn around from praising her budget as a true Tory move last week


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can't begin to imagine how embarrassing this all is for her poor dad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Should have raised his daughter better then init. Wouldn't have taken much, just the occasional fatherly hand on the shoulder and, in a reassuring voice, something along the lines of, 'remember Liz, it's not OK to be a horrible shitcunt'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can't begin to imagine how embarrassing this all is for her poor dad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


he's probably having the time of his life, saying 'i warned her she'd be revealed as the fraud she truly is, now she's doomed, doomed i tell you'


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Should have raised his daughter better then init. Wouldn't have taken much, just the occasional fatherly hand on the shoulder and, in a reassuring voice, something along the lines of, 'remember Liz, it's not OK to be a horrible shitcunt'.


is that what happened to you?


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> So do I, won't happen they'll make sure of that


Yeah I very much doubt it. But it's telling that she believes it.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Not if Enough is Enough is any indication as it clearly has become little more than a talking shop and a pressure valve that the Tories benefit from.



What, precisely, are you doing that you think is going to work better/more quickly. As for your pressure valve dig, let's see some evidence for that.


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can't begin to imagine how embarrassing this all is for her poor dad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I picture him scribbling furiously on a chalkboard, trying to reach the Eureka moment that would make a time machine possible, allowing him to go back in time and prevent his biggest mistake.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> What, precisely, you are doing that you think is going to work better/more quickly. As for your pressure valve dig, let's see some evidence for it.


I'm not doing anything. I have no power beyond carping online. 

The pressure valve comment isn't a dig, it's a claim: EiE isn't, afaict, going to do anything beyond the overton window and so allows the outrage and anger in society to be harmlessly (from the Tories' perspective) diverted into something that won't achieve the necessary outcome.

I hope I'm wrong, but I see no evidence to the contrary. I would like to see that evidence


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

Conversely there's a school of thought (a comment on twitter) that maybe the patriarchal tory party will keep her for PMQ's and use the subsequent humiliation as leverage


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I'm not doing anything. I have no power beyond carping online.



Thought so



Karl Masks said:


> The pressure valve comment isn't a dig, it's a claim: EiE isn't, afaict, going to do anything beyond the overton window and so allows the outrage and anger in society to be harmlessly (from the Tories' perspective) diverted into something that won't achieve the necessary outcome.



EiE aims to build and intensify strike action to demand better pay and resist cuts. It also aims to take the approach into communities. We'll crack on with this whilst you post about the 'necessary alternative'. 




Karl Masks said:


> I hope I'm wrong, but I see no evidence to the contrary. I would like to see that evidence



Whatever.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> EiE aims to build and intensify strike action to demand better pay and resist cuts.


how does the eie approach differ from what unions are currently doing?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> Can't begin to imagine how embarrassing this all is for her poor dad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My dad had dinner with a colleague of his last month and they apparently are no longer on speaking terms


----------



## Aladdin (Oct 18, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> I give Truss til Friday.
> She'll fall on her own sword in the interests of the "Party" and the country.



I may have been a little late in pinning Friday. 
Could be Thursday.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 18, 2022)

Not sure if this has been posted but it's very lolz









						Up was down, night was day. And was the prime minister OK? | John Crace
					

Librium Liz appeared for a brief, silent cameo in the Commons as her captors, Jeremy Hunt and Penny Mordaunt, held court




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

Aladdin said:


> I may have been a little late in pinning Friday.
> Could be Thursday.


I can't see her doing PMQ tomorrow. But I also can't see how she can dodge doing it.

It appears today they're trying the line that she's done the right thing by admitting to her mistake. I don't see that flying very far before hitting the ground. In that case, how come Kwarteng wasn't allowed to stay on? He could have reversed the mini-budget just as easily as Hunt.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Thought so


Sneering at people because they can't get involved in activism isn't a good look. I don't live anywhere near EiE meetings. I don't have the means to travel the country attending protests and the like. IF you have reasonable suggestions I'll hear them otherwise you can keep your judgements to yourself


Smokeandsteam said:


> EiE aims to build and intensify strike action to demand better pay and resist cuts. It also aims to take the approach into communities. We'll crack on with this whilst you post about the 'necessary alternative'.


I'm well aware of their aims. All of which are great. What matters is the outcome. Did the People's Assembly from a decade ago defeat austerity?


Smokeandsteam said:


> Whatever.


Says it all really


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2022)

-70! That’s an impressive popularity rating









						Liz Truss’s net favourability rating falls to -70  | YouGov
					

Just one in ten Britons have a favourable opinion of the prime minister




					yougov.co.uk


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

Lurdan said:


> The Daily Mail demonstrates that if there's one thing it hates more than woke 'socialists' it's losers.


That's either photoshopped or a very bizarre car


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Sneering at people because they can't get involved in activism isn't a good look. I don't live anywhere near EiE meetings. I don't have the means to travel the country attending protests and the like. IF you have reasonable suggestions I'll hear them otherwise you can keep your judgements to yourself
> 
> I'm well aware of their aims. All of which are great. What matters is the outcome. Did the People's Assembly from a decade ago defeat austerity?
> 
> Says it all really


EiE is still holding launch meetings.  To write it off after a couple of months looks rather like an attempt to d eerily dismiss something as an excuse not to get involved.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> That's either photoshopped or a very bizarre car


Zoom lens.


----------



## bimble (Oct 18, 2022)

Is it normal that everyone is in the minus range & the prize is just to be the least hated of the week sort of thing has it always been like this?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> Is it normal that everyone is in the minus range & the prize is just to be the least hated of the week sort of thing has it always been like this?
> View attachment 347670


hate's quite an active emotion so perhaps least contemptible


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> That's either photoshopped or a very bizarre car


she's in a dodgem


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 18, 2022)

One for the scrapbook


----------



## 8ball (Oct 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I can't see her doing PMQ tomorrow. But I also can't see how she can dodge doing it.
> 
> It appears today they're trying the line that she's done the right thing by admitting to her mistake. I don't see that flying very far before hitting the ground. In that case, how come Kwarteng wasn't allowed to stay on? He could have reversed the mini-budget just as easily as Hunt.



True, but the market gods always demand a sacrifice.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> That's either photoshopped or a very bizarre car



Was more bizarre a few seconds later when the doors and wheels fell off and eight chaps of restricted stature emerged from it.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 18, 2022)

She doesn't look well tbh.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

belboid said:


> EiE is still holding launch meetings.  To write it off after a couple of months looks rather like an attempt to d eerily dismiss something as an excuse not to get involved.


What are they proposing?

How would you recommend I get involved? I signed up to their email, I follow themo n the socials. I don't live anywhere near them. Like I said, if you have a suggestion put it on the table.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 18, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> She doesn't look well tbh.



She really doesn’t. That or her make-up person has turned on her too.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 18, 2022)

I wonder what she actually DID when she worked in the energy industry.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> What are they proposing?
> 
> How would you recommend I get involved? I signed up to their email, I follow themo n the socials. I don't live anywhere near them. Like I said, if you have a suggestion put it on the table.


Start a Local Branch?, not that I would criticise you for not being on side, their demands reek of Socialism which is so demonised by the middle classes in this country it doesnt have a chance........ its every man/women/whatever for themselves these days, fuck those other cunts
Untill there is a real physical revolution in this country nothing will change, itll take a large proportion of the population to actually go hungry for a week or so to make that happen


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 18, 2022)

I reckon she's staying now.
Flawed logic or not, Hunt at the very least 'looked'  like he knew what he was doing. 
Plus Labour still look at bit _meh_, just less than the Tories do. 
If they can keep the wierdos that always vote Tory on side, and use a nice bit of client journalism to win back those that have 'left', then - in their theory - they'll be able to win with at least a 'small' majority, or at the very least something that can be solved with another bribe to the DUP. 

Don't get me wrong, I think they're properly fucked. The 'experiment' with the great red wall has been a disaster, and the cabinate is still full of Truss loyalists who still look as incompetent and mad as they did a month ago. Plus this is a late-stage Tory Government, we're never more than 24 hours away from some sort of crisis. 

TL,DR I don't think she'll go, not right now. The Tories think they'll win, by hook or by DUP-crook. They won't. Labour are the less shit option, as they always have been.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 18, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I reckon she's staying now.
> Flawed logic or not, Hunt at the very least 'looked'  like he knew what he was doing.
> Plus Labour still look at bit _meh_, just less than the Tories do.
> If they can keep the wierdos that always vote Tory on side, and use a nice bit of client journalism to win back those that have 'left', then - in their theory - they'll be able to win with at least a 'small' majority, or at the very least something that can be solved with another bribe to the DUP.
> ...


PMQs tomorrow will be a big factor. 

Mordaunt did a pretty good job yesterday. If Truss doesn’t match up, Tories may well decide to dump her. 

Keeping her on, in post but not in charge, until a few months before the GE may be a tactic tories are considering.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> TL,DR I don't think she'll go, not right now. The Tories think they'll win, by hook or by DUP-crook. They won't. Labour are the less shit option, as they always have been.


They dont think they will win, far from it, and it will become a question only of the extent to which they can limit the losses or stumble upon an event-based miracle somewhere along the way.

I find it hard to judge whether she will go this week, because we are in the middle of a campaign to keep her going for now, and the tories will have to figure out a removal mechanism if they cant get her to resign neatly. And the survival campaign could come crashing down at any moment, but in theory the markets (and the desperate measures used to get the markets to behave that way) bought her some time yesterday.

Whether she remains or goes, she is an empty husk.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> Is it normal that everyone is in the minus range & the prize is just to be the least hated of the week sort of thing has it always been like this?
> View attachment 347670


The starmer figure makes me think the country is ripe for some kind of new party of left or right.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think it will happen - the electoral system, the lack of any real social movements that could launch a 'fresh start' party, populist or otherwise.  But the combination of a tory party that has just about killed itself and a labour party that is frightened of it's own shadow _should _be a point of departure.  Some kind of new centre left, public sector and welfare state focused party wouldn't be my cup of tea,  but could really take advantage of this moment. It's a pity Labour have already had their centre left moment and killed it from within.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 18, 2022)




----------



## Santino (Oct 18, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The starmer figure makes me think the country is ripe for some kind of new party of left or right.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think it will happen - the electoral system, the lack of any real social movements that could launch a 'fresh start' party, populist or otherwise.  But the combination of a tory party that has just about killed itself and a labour party that is frightened of it's own shadow _should _be a point of departure.  Some kind of new centre left, public sector and welfare state focused party wouldn't be my cup of tea,  but could really take advantage of this moment. It's a pity Labour have already had their centre left moment and killed it from within.


It's probably a simplistic notion, but it seems quite plausible now that the Tories could spiral into irrelevance (as a formal party) and the Labour party drifts ever rightwards, attracting all the Establishment support that used to go to the Tories, leaving a space on the left for a European-style social democratic party.


----------



## Cid (Oct 18, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I reckon she's staying now.
> Flawed logic or not, Hunt at the very least 'looked'  like he knew what he was doing.
> Plus Labour still look at bit _meh_, just less than the Tories do.
> If they can keep the wierdos that always vote Tory on side, and use a nice bit of client journalism to win back those that have 'left', then - in their theory - they'll be able to win with at least a 'small' majority, or at the very least something that can be solved with another bribe to the DUP.
> ...



Dunno. The technocrats might cut it for keeping the polls from slipping further, and probably will get some level of bounce. But there is still a fucking massive elephant sat in the middle of the HoC... How can Truss ever cut it in an actual election? Surely 1922 etc are aware of this (as the appointment of Hunt and use of Mordaunt shows). I suppose it depends what's happening behind the scenes; is there enough gridlock on who could potentially succeed her that the easier path is just to stick it out?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 18, 2022)

According to Sam Coates on Sky news he said not one Cabinet member he asked this morning has not one of them backed Truss publicly and he also said the mood amongst them was grim


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2022)

Santino said:


> It's probably a simplistic notion, but it seems quite plausible now that the Tories could spiral into irrelevance (as a formal party) and the Labour party drifts ever rightwards, attracting all the Establishment support that used to go to the Tories, leaving a space on the left for a European-style social democratic party.


I have a pessimistic view of this. Where is it going to come from? Who are its leaders? Who funds it? What organisations are going to provide it structure and reach? The traditional unions are either broken or so declawed as to be useless. Labour (small l) is atomised. The "online left" is like a herd of cats.
Neoliberalism has very successfully reduced politics to "choose your manager" . It just doesn't feel like we have a society that knows how to have political ideas any more.
Someone give me a slap.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

Crispy said:


> I have a pessimistic view of this. Where is it going to come from? Who are its leaders? Who funds it? What organisations are going to provide it structure and reach? The traditional unions are either broken or so declawed as to be useless. Labour (small l) is atomised. The "online left" is like a herd of cats.
> Neoliberalism has very successfully reduced politics to "choose your manager" . It just doesn't feel like we have a society that knows how to have political ideas any more.
> Someone give me a slap.


Yeah, that was my point really about if not happening.  The conditions are right, but the agents are not really in play.  Also the first past the post system leaves Lab and Con like two boxers, out on their feet, holding each other up.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 18, 2022)

Crispy said:


> I have a pessimistic view of this. Where is it going to come from? Who are its leaders? Who funds it? What organisations are going to provide it structure and reach? The traditional unions are either broken or so declawed as to be useless. Labour (small l) is atomised. The "online left" is like a herd of cats.
> Neoliberalism has very successfully reduced politics to "choose your manager" . It just doesn't feel like we have a society that knows how to have political ideas any more.
> Someone give me a slap.


I’m not sure about that, Trussonomics and brexit were both challenges to the orthodoxy, unfortunately they came from the right, but they were different ideas. Nothing will happen unless the tories go though.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> Start a Local Branch?, not that I would criticise you for not being on side, their demands reek of Socialism which is so demonised by the middle classes in this country it doesnt have a chance........ its every man/women/whatever for themselves these days, fuck those other cunts
> Untill there is a real physical revolution in this country nothing will change, itll take a large proportion of the population to actually go hungry for a week or so to make that happen


I'm not against them at all. I just don't see anything happening. Are there demands socialism? They are transitional demands at best. I don't think theya re calling for the workers to take over the state. Though I wouldn't disagree, won't heappen anytime soon though.

And yes we do need a physical revolution. Not sure how we arrive at that. If EiE have an idea as to how, then I'd like to hear it. A good start imo would be a mass general strike


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

mx wcfc said:


> PMQs tomorrow will be a big factor.
> 
> Mordaunt did a pretty good job yesterday. If Truss doesn’t match up, Tories may well decide to dump her.
> 
> Keeping her on, in post but not in charge, until a few months before the GE may be a tactic tories are considering.


Truss won't match up, though. Both Mordaunt and Hunt are highly skilled political operators compared to Truss. Truss in high spirits is useless. Truss in a crisis will be a car crash. 

I still can't see Truss standing up at PMQs tomorrow. Thatcher did her defiant thing  - 'I'm enjoying this' - after she'd been ousted. But Thatcher was good at parliament. Truss's tribute act has only ever been lip-synching to a backing track.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 18, 2022)

Liz Truss has already slipped down the Mail Online front page beneath a story about Meghan Markle but they are not holding back.













This all seems terribly negative. Do they not have a favoured solution? Why yes, they do.






🤣


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 18, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



if they're looking to may to calm things down and be a competent pm they've obviously forgotten what happened between 2016 and 2019


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2022)

If Brown went from Stalin to Mr Bean, then what has Truss gone from and to?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

Tory members want her to go, which must be about the last lever to fall.  If you scroll down the link you can see they want MPs to decide the successor, though they actually want johnson back in.    Anyway, I'd actually put good money on this being the way it goes - 1922 decides these are exceptional circumstances and allows MPs to decide a unity candidate.  Sunak and possibly Mordor favourites, but Cunt might feature.  Brief period of feverish lobbying and jockeying for position, followed by1 candidate emerging. Unfortunately, no Red Wedding. 









						Most Tory members say Liz Truss should resign | YouGov
					

Boris Johnson is the most popular successor




					yougov.co.uk


----------



## contadino (Oct 18, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Tory members want her to go, which must be about the last lever to fall.  If you scroll down the link you can see they want MPs to decide the successor, though they actually want johnson back in.    Anyway, I'd actually put good money on this being the way it goes - 1922 decides these are exceptional circumstances and allows MPs to decide a unity candidate.  Sunak and possibly Mordor favourites, but Cunt might feature.  Brief period of feverish lobbying and jockeying for position, followed by1 candidate emerging. Unfortunately, no Red Wedding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suspect that's what she was told yesterday, the jockeying for position has been underway for a week or so, and I think the handover is the subject of today's meeting between Truss and Brady.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

contadino said:


> I suspect that's what she was told yesterday, the jockeying for position has been underway for a week or so, and I think the handover is the subject of today's meeting between Truss and Brady.


The normal path would, I think, be Coffey taking over till the contest is over.  I doubt they'll want that, because that would be _another _prime minister - 'looking fucking ridiculous' points go through the roof. Same time they won't want truss hanging on for even a fortnight.  And having said all that, they equally won't want it to look like the men in suits simply appointed another PM.  Tricky times for the bunch of cunts.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 18, 2022)

When European political parties replace some obviously hopeless leader, they usually instal some technocrat who'll spend a couple of years reassuring everyone that the emperor does, in fact, have a change of clothes.

Tories want to oust their obviously hopeless leader now that she's presiding over complete chaos and universally derided and replace her with the stabilising influence of .... _Boris Johnson_?

I hope they really do it. Surely to fuck that would finish them off.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

That's the membership though, who have demonstrated time and time again they're total nutcases.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

The MPs will not be sliding Johnson back into number 10


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> When European political parties replace some obviously hopeless leader, they usually instal some technocrat who'll spend a couple of years reassuring everyone that the emperor does, in fact, have a change of clothes.
> 
> Tories want to oust their obviously hopeless leader now that she's presiding over complete chaos and universally derided and replace her with the stabilising influence of .... _Boris Johnson_?
> 
> I hope they really do it. Surely to fuck that would finish them off.


_'Okay, okay, I'll do it if my country needs me.  However we really do need to change the wallpaper in number 10...'_


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 18, 2022)

Graham Brady is the tory party's Albert Pierrepoint. When he appears in your doorway, you don't have long left


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> That's the membership though, who have demonstrated time and time again they're total nutcases.



I know, that's why I want their MPs to listen to them.

Both parties now effectively hate their own most natural supporters, don't they? And most of the supporters in turn hate most of 'their' MPs. Somehow this doesn't seem ideal.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> That's the membership though, who have demonstrated time and time again they're total nutcases.


Is this the issue with getting rid of her? By the rules if more than 1 candidate stands they have to go to the memberships. So unless they can reach agreement across the board the have to go to the membership and run the risk of another nutcase getting elected.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> That's the membership though, who have demonstrated time and time again they're total nutcases.


Yeah, of course, but there's certainly a permission there for the 1922 to take the appointment process back. It eases the thing forward and moves the idea of a speedily (MP) appointed replacement further into the open.  As of even 5 days ago, the public talk at least was about the difficulty of replacing her, the 1 year grace period etc.


----------



## Storm Fox (Oct 18, 2022)

But getting Johnson back will mean getting back all of his baggage. So while it may go down well with the Tory membership (who voted for Truss), I cannot see it going down well with the public or Tory MPs. The gap may close a little, but I cannot see it going back to a 10% Labour lead and not a Tory lead. Plus we have the winter to get through with the very real possibility of rolling power cuts and a massive fuel price increase in the spring.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Graham Brady is the tory party's Albert Pierrepoint. When he appears in your doorway, you don't have long left


'Don't shake hands with him!'


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Is this the issue with getting rid of her? By the rules if more than 1 candidate stands they have to go to the memberships. So unless they can reach agreement across the board the have to go to the membership and run the risk of another nutcase getting elected.


Yeah, they'll reach an agreement. That's the only thing delaying them right now, I would think. The decision's already been made. No way they can have another membership vote.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Is this the issue with getting rid of her? By the rules if more than 1 candidate stands they have to go to the memberships. So unless they can reach agreement across the board the have to go to the membership and run the risk of another nutcase getting elected.


the risk of another leadership election is the only thing keeping Truss in position. The moment they work out how to anoint her successor (and who??) she's done.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 18, 2022)

More leadership contests please. It all helps devalue modern politics


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

Anyway, the tories have now (just about) got a process whereby they can get a leader in who will go back to beating kieth at PMQs, something of a reset, the vague appearance of looking like a political party again. Trouble is, with mortgages, cost of living horrors and the new austerity, that won't nearly be enough.  Might add it somehow won't be enough for a Labour _landslide_, though they will win in 2024.  Labour really has chosen a moment to be profoundly shit.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 18, 2022)

They're talking in terms of a 'unity candidate' - presumably also known as a 'not Sunak candidate'. If they want to reach far back enough among the recent contenders to pick one who isn't as wildly unsuited to .. well, anything, as Truss herself, Mordaunt's got to be the favourite, hasn't she?


----------



## contadino (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> the risk of another leadership election is the only thing keeping Truss in position. The moment they work out how to anoint her successor (and who??) she's done.


I think the only thing keeping her there is the headbangers saying that if she goes it'll mean a GE. If the 1922 can sort that out and have the new bod in place until the 2024, they'll do it in a flash. It'll take a lot of time to reverse the polling so their best option is to get on with it.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 18, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Labour really has chosen a moment to be profoundly shit.



It's come to something when the inspirational leadership and confident, resolute party mood of the Miliband era would be a distinct improvement...


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

contadino said:


> I think the only thing keeping her there is the headbangers saying that if she goes it'll mean a GE. If the 1922 can sort that out and have the new bod in place until the 2024, they'll do it in a flash. It'll take a lot of time to reverse the polling so their best option is to get on with it.


Yep, in all this morass that is literally the only way forward.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

Presumably truss is in the building, but being ignored as all the plotting and business of government goes on around here.  I don't mean that metaphorically, I get the image of people walking past her in corridors and looking down as they rush past her to do some actual work/plotting.  That makes me very happy.  
Having said all that, the attempts to get a 'balanced budget' - austerity and cuts - that will follow....  fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> The MPs will not be sliding Johnson back into number 10


that's a bold claim


----------



## emanymton (Oct 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, they'll reach an agreement. That's the only thing delaying them right now, I would think. The decision's already been made. No way they can have another membership vote.





killer b said:


> the risk of another leadership election is the only thing keeping Truss in position. The moment they work out how to anoint her successor (and who??) she's done.


I think there might be enough nutcases amongst the MPs that one will insist on staying in the contest and making it go to the membership. Unless they change the rules.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

they'll change the rules then.


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2022)

No fucking way are they allowing the membership another vote.  Back room deal all the way.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 18, 2022)

I quite like this headline from the gruniad



> Truss gets through cabinet without any minister telling her she should quit, No 10 says​


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

My money is currently on Morduant as the one with the least enemies who actually wants the job of the top candidates fwiw


----------



## kabbes (Oct 18, 2022)

Sunak has bought a lot of Sensible Man credibility through this episode as the only one saying you couldn’t lower taxes (in fact, the reverse) and staying clear of the fallout. My Home Counties antenna is suggesting that since Starmer is SO shit, replacing Truss quickly with Sunak might actually allow the Tories to recover the situation. I think he’s made too many enemies for the party to do it though.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 18, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> She doesn't look well tbh.


----------



## Cid (Oct 18, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> I’m not sure about that, Trussonomics and brexit were both challenges to the orthodoxy, unfortunately they came from the right, but they were different ideas. Nothing will happen unless the tories go though.



It's not just that they unfortunately came from the right though, the right were in position to make them. And both are really a case of pushing things a little further in an established direction, rather than turning the apparatus of capital onto a completely different road. As with the other pessimists on here, I tend to think the left is as far from making substantive change as it has ever been. Some rebalancing to the centre, sure, but nothing truly meaningful and enduring. Would of course be delighted to be wrong.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> My money is currently on Morduant as the one with the least enemies who actually wants the job of the top candidates fwiw



Her perfomance yesterday was fucking brilliant to be fair. Killing her softly. Her pauses to allow the jeers after confirming that 'the prime minister isn't hiding under a desk'

I didn't think the partygate thing could be topped in terms of absolute tory schadenfruede but, no, they've upped their game


----------



## Cid (Oct 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Sunak has bought a lot of Sensible Man credibility through this episode as the only one saying you couldn’t lower taxes (in fact, the reverse) and staying clear of the fallout. My Home Counties antenna is suggesting that since Starmer is SO shit, replacing Truss quickly with Sunak might actually allow the Tories to recover the situation. I think he’s made too many enemies for the party to do it though.



Yeah, the Tory's worst enemy at the moment is themselves... The last couple of days have shown that they absolutely can regain economic credibility by installing dull technocrats, and potentially political credibility by having people who actually know how to push back answering questions.


----------



## Santino (Oct 18, 2022)

If the choice at the next election was between brutal Tory austerity with a sensible face vs extremely mild social democracy under a vaguely competent Labour leader, you know the whole of media is swinging behind the Tories again.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Her perfomance yesterday was fucking brilliant to be fair. Killing her softly. Her pauses to allow the jeers after confirming that 'the prime minister isn't hiding under a desk'
> 
> I didn't think the partygate thing could be topped in terms of absolute tory schadenfruede but, no, they've upped their game


Yep, Mordor would slaughter starmer, it's just the hole the tories have put themselves in is so deep.  I wouldn't rule out Mordor or sunak getting it back to being a close-ish fight in 2 years, but those kind of predictions are pointless at this stage.  How shit Labour are will certainly be a major issue when push comes to shove.  Labour are almost equally stuck, starmer's whole raison d'etre is about not being corbyn, just at the very point the public wants some pro public sector policies.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 18, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Yep, Mordor would slaughter starmer, it's just the hole the tories have put themselves in is so deep.  I wouldn't rule out Mordor or sunak getting it back to being a close-ish fight in 2 years, but those kind of predictions are pointless at this stage.  How shit Labour are will certainly be a major issue when push comes to shove.  Labour are almost equally stuck, starmer's whole raison d'etre is about not being corbyn, just at the very point the public wants some pro public sector policies.



It's only 18 months now. And yeh - it's gonna be a Sunak/Morduant ticket, surely. They can't shoot themselves in the foot as spectacularly again and vote in another halfwit. And unfortunately I think that ticket would win against Starmer. It's the perfect amount of time to prove they're 'competent' as well. Markets will settle. Interest rates will settle. I'm fairly sure the deal's already been done.

Public services will be cut. But hey, who cares right!


----------



## Knotted (Oct 18, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I reckon she's staying now.
> Flawed logic or not, Hunt at the very least 'looked'  like he knew what he was doing.
> Plus Labour still look at bit _meh_, just less than the Tories do.
> If they can keep the wierdos that always vote Tory on side, and use a nice bit of client journalism to win back those that have 'left', then - in their theory - they'll be able to win with at least a 'small' majority, or at the very least something that can be solved with another bribe to the DUP.
> ...



I don't think they have a chance of winning whether she stays or not. I think they're in this predicament because they need to hold onto the voter coalition they put together in 2019 and they needed to do something dramatic like put in a new leader with dramatic eye-catching policies. If they coup in a "sensible"* Tory they're also fucked and they'll be fucked with infighting as the various factions won't accept it. So I think she'll stay but not because I think they think they have a chance with her, but because it might well be their least bad option.

* A "sensible" Tory's proper name is _austerity Tory_


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> It's only 18 months now.





They don't need to hold an election until Dec. 2024, so over 2 years to go.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> It's only 18 months now.


if they take it to the line it's January 2025, so two and a bit years


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 18, 2022)

Sunak has the whole green card/non dom thing to deal with. Mordant would be a lot more worrying.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> if they take it to the line it's January 2025, so two and a bit years


they'd be cutting it a bit fine with the other things planned for '25


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Yep, Mordor would slaughter starmer, it's just the hole the tories have put themselves in is so deep.  I wouldn't rule out Mordor or sunak getting it back to being a close-ish fight in 2 years, but those kind of predictions are pointless at this stage.  How shit Labour are will certainly be a major issue when push comes to shove.  Labour are almost equally stuck, starmer's whole raison d'etre is about not being corbyn, just at the very point the public wants some pro public sector policies.


i don't think anyone will slaughter shammer if energy bills next year are £4k+ and who knows what they might be the year after.

 how long till people who own wood burners start chopping down trees in parks etc for the fuel?


----------



## bimble (Oct 18, 2022)

It’s going to be mordant I’m pretty sure, sunak chancellor. They’ll probably win the next election.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

sleaterkinney said:


> Sunak has the whole green card/non dom thing to deal with. Mordant would be a lot more worrying.





bimble said:


> It’s going to be mordant I’m pretty sure, sunak chancellor. They’ll probably win the next election.


didn't realise we were making out this was a situation calling for mordant wit

frankly whoever's in government for the next two years will lose the 24/25 election. the pandemic may have done for a lot of auld people. the next couple of years will do for a whole lot more through hypothermia etc


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 18, 2022)

There are greater implications from this than what happens at the next general election. Woe betide any MP let alone party in the future who advocates any deviation from the the new normal of tight fiscal discipline.


----------



## bimble (Oct 18, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> didn't realise we were making out this was a situation calling for mordant wit


I couldn’t remember where the U goes and didnt care enough to check, soz


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> I couldn’t remember where the U goes and didnt care enough to check, soz


it goes in her name


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)




----------



## BusLanes (Oct 18, 2022)

2019 has made it hard to believe that the Conservatives cannot swing back from the depths and win easily.

But Johnson didn't have to deal with a cost of living crisis in 2019. He had to campaign for Brexit and against Corbyn in order to regain a Conservative majority.

The Conservatives now have to deal with high rent, mortgages, energy as well as a catastrophic loss in credibility in 2022. Maybe they can reinvent themselves yet again but to do so with everyone feeling poor and anxious seems a much harder job.


----------



## contadino (Oct 18, 2022)

belboid said:


> No fucking way are they allowing the membership another vote.  Back room deal all the way.


The irony there being that party membership/subscriptions will dive if they're not allowed to vote on their party leader. So they'll be more reliant than ever on their dodgy donors - who will donate less given the Tory inability to implement change beneficial to those donors. Even the era of backhander-steered Covid contracts is past now.


----------



## Thesaint (Oct 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Sunak has bought a lot of Sensible Man credibility through this episode as the only one saying you couldn’t lower taxes (in fact, the reverse) and staying clear of the fallout. My Home Counties antenna is suggesting that since Starmer is SO shit, replacing Truss quickly with Sunak might actually allow the Tories to recover the situation. I think he’s made too many enemies for the party to do it though.


Quite possibly, but it might depend if backbenchers scared of losing their seat might swallow their pride and pick him if only to give them have a chance in the next GE.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> There are greater implications from this than what happens at the next general election. Woe betide any MP let alone party in the future who advocates any deviation from the the new normal of tight fiscal discipline.


Even when advocating changes in economic policy direction, or even something that would be considered vaguely radical, very few stretching back decades have been stupid enough to attempt to do so without having their plans costed in some at least semi-credible way. So I'm far from convinced that what happened to Trussonomics actually offers any new lessons in that respect. The other lesson is that trickle down is dead, but as I pointed back in the wake of the financial crisis years ago, the one ideological concession that the mainstream were prepared to declare at the time was that trickle down was dead, so that wasnt something we needed a new lesson about either.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> They don't need to hold an election until Dec. 2024, so over 2 years to go.



Oh shit, soz. Counting my chickens. It feels like its been an eternity!


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 18, 2022)

elbows said:


> Even when advocating changes in economic policy direction, or even something that would be considered vaguely radical, very few stretching back decades have been stupid enough to attempt to do so without having their plans costed in some at least semi-credible way. So I'm far from convinced that what happened to Trussonomics actually offers any new lessons in that respect. The other lesson is that trickle down is dead, but as I pointed back in the wake of the financial crisis years ago, the one ideological concession that the mainstream were prepared to declare at the time was that trickle down was dead, so that wasnt something we needed a new lesson about either.



Well, Labour  had supported many of the mini-budget measures, but Rachel Reeves was doing the media round yesterday emphasising that "things have changed" and they've now fallen in line with Hunt. Her main point seemed to be that Hunt was doing the right things he just wasn't the right person to be doing them.


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2022)

Thesaint said:


> Quite possibly, but it might depend if backbenchers scared of losing their seat might swallow their pride and pick him if only to give them have a chance in the next GE.


The backbenchers would love to pick Sunak.  But picking the man who lost to a brain damaged hedgehog would look crap, especially to their members who resoundingly rejected him.


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Well, Labour  had supported many of the mini-budget measures,


had they? Certainly not cutting the 45p rate, or the cut in corporation tax.  The only one they were absolutely in favour of was the drop in basic income tax rate.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 18, 2022)

belboid said:


> The backbenchers would love to pick Sunak.  But picking the man who lost to a brain damaged hedgehog would look crap, especially to their members who resoundingly rejected him.



According to the poll of tory members out today, if that contest was run again now, Sunak would win with 55% to Truss 45%.


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> According to the poll of tory members out today, if that contest was run again now, Sunak would win with 55% to Truss 45%.


Yeah but he’d be running against someone known to be fucking useless now.  And that 45% is higher than the proportion of members who want her to stay on.  So at least 7% _really_ fucking hate Sunak, even more than they love power.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> According to the poll of tory members out today, if that contest was run again now, Sunak would win with 55% to Truss 45%.


we call that a 'farage victory'


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

belboid said:


> The backbenchers would love to pick Sunak.  But picking the man who lost to a brain damaged hedgehog would look crap, especially to their members who resoundingly rejected him.


Sunak comes with a lot of baggage and is he really that good a politician? I'm not so sure. Mordaunt looks the smart choice to me. She's the one I'd least like them to choose.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 18, 2022)

Truss is hold a meeting with the ERG tonight followed by another drinks event at Downing street according to Sky


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> It's only 18 months now. And yeh - it's gonna be a Sunak/Morduant ticket, surely. They can't shoot themselves in the foot as spectacularly again and vote in another halfwit. And unfortunately I think that ticket would win against Starmer. It's the perfect amount of time to prove they're 'competent' as well. Markets will settle. Interest rates will settle. I'm fairly sure the deal's already been done.
> 
> Public services will be cut. But hey, who cares right!


Nah, they've a bit longer. Last election was Dec 2019 and for some reason I can't remember, they have a wee bit longer than that, maybe Jan 2025

Edit: should have read the page - already said.


----------



## Sue (Oct 18, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Truss is hold a meeting with the ERG tonight followed by another drinks event at Downing street according to Sky


Wonder if they'll all get pissed and either 
a) start fighting 
b) get a bit too honest about things 
c) do that 'you're my best mate you are' thing


----------



## belboid (Oct 18, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Nah, they've a bit longer. Last election was Dec 2019 and for some reason I can't remember, they have a wee bit longer than that, maybe Jan 2025


Cos you have to call it, not hold it, within five years


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Well, Labour  had supported many of the mini-budget measures, but Rachel Reeves was doing the media round yesterday emphasising that "things have changed" and they've now fallen in line with Hunt. Her main point seemed to be that Hunt was doing the right things he just wasn't the right person to be doing them.


The present version of Labour is not where I would look for anything diverging from whatever the commonly accepted dull mainstream economic wisdom of the moment is.

To judge whether the Trussonomic meltdown has long term implications for what economic policies a political party would feel confident to suggest, I'd need a better test than the Starmerites will offer. McDonnell type stuff would have been a more interesting test, and I suspect even that would have needed to be adjusted to cope with the current economic realities in order for the numbers to add up.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think anyone will slaughter shammer if energy bills next year are £4k+ and who knows what they might be the year after.
> 
> how long till people who own wood burners start chopping down trees in parks etc for the fuel?


Yeah, I agree on the outcome of the election, it's just she'd beat him at the despatch box/election debates. But as you say, material conditions - people fucking freezing and starving - should make the next election unwinnable for the vermin.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

belboid said:


> Cos you have to call it, not hold it, within five years


Cheers.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 18, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Nah, they've a bit longer. Last election was Dec 2019 and for some reason I can't remember, they have a wee bit longer than that, maybe Jan 2025
> 
> Edit: should have read the page - already said.


Its because its 5 years from day that parliments first meets after the election not 5 years since last election.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2022)

Maybe they will be content to leave Truss in place to absorb the damage this winter will bring and then replace her in the spring. But thats the same dull vision that I was going on about before her prospects worsened over the last week, and every day could change my opinion on that yet again.


----------



## bimble (Oct 18, 2022)

If this country wasn’t already a laughing stock, I mean if it hadn’t been publically humiliating itself for the last few years with this sequence of joke PMs and so on, I wonder if the international money people would have run away after the mini budget in that same way.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 18, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Its because its 5 years from day that parliments first meets after the election not 5 years since last election.


Correction parliament auto disolves on that day but its another 25 days on top of that for election date.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 18, 2022)

belboid said:


> The backbenchers would love to pick Sunak.  But picking the man who lost to a brain damaged hedgehog would look crap, especially to their members who resoundingly rejected him.



Collectively they would go for Sunak if there was a vote, but there will be a significant number who would prefer someone like Braverman and a number who don't care as long as the new leader saves their red wall seat which none of the last contenders would have done. I think they need a (limited to mps) democratic process to put a new leader in place otherwise it's open warfare. It's not just a matter of plotting to put someone new in place, it's a matter of politicking. We shouldn't forget that a significant minority of Tory MP's endorsed Truss and her programme of borrowing for tax cuts that led to disaster, and some will be fuming _because she caved in_.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

elbows said:


> Maybe they will be content to leave Truss in place to absorb the damage this winter will bring and then replace her in the spring. But thats the same dull vision that I was going on about before her prospects worsened over the last week, and every day could change my opinion on that yet again.


The problem with that scenario is 'markets',  markets don't like uncertainty etc. The markets want it to be over and they want the likes of Cunt and/or sunak and/or mordor. Unfortunately markets also want a lot of stuff that brings down further horrors on working class people.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> According to the poll of tory members out today, if that contest was run again now, Sunak would win with 55% to Truss 45%.


Fuck me, 45% of them would _still_ vote for Truss?  That’s incredible.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> According to the poll of tory members out today, if that contest was run again now, Sunak would win with 55% to Truss 45%.


Do you know what the sample size was?


----------



## Knotted (Oct 18, 2022)

Liz Truss ditches pledge to raise pensions with inflation
					

The prime minister's spokesman says she is "not making any commitments", as she searches for spending cuts.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




I guess this is Hunt's doing.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 18, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Her main point seemed to be that Hunt was doing the right things he just wasn't the right person to be doing them.



That's all Labour have to offer on any level. 'Well yes, obviously we wouldn't do anything differently _really_, don't want to upset the markets or the media! But at least it wouldn't be the horrible Tories doing it.'

I agree with those saying they almost certainly can't rescue the next election now. But with Mordaunt in charge and people like Hunt and Sunak at the forefront for a couple of years I think they could make it a whole lot more unsettling that Labour seem to be relying entirely on the 'But Tories are bad' narrative. It'd be OK if that pushed Labour to improve what they're offering, but, well, you know ...


----------



## hitmouse (Oct 18, 2022)

Just to pick up specifically on the EiE stuff:


Karl Masks said:


> Sneering at people because they can't get involved in activism isn't a good look. I don't live anywhere near EiE meetings. I don't have the means to travel the country attending protests and the like. IF you have reasonable suggestions I'll hear them otherwise you can keep your judgements to yourself


I mean, it feels like EiE is sort of functioning as the political arm of the RMT and CWU at the moment, and you may not have any EiE stuff happening anywhere near you, but I'm sure you will have a local post office with a picket line this week. That feels like a very useful thing to be doing at the moment.


belboid said:


> EiE is still holding launch meetings.  To write it off after a couple of months looks rather like an attempt to d eerily dismiss something as an excuse not to get involved.


Tbf, I think the fact that after a couple of months they still don't seem to be doing much other than holding launch meetings is a valid criticism, at this rate there's going to be an entire Prime Minister whose term in office started and finished while EiE were still getting launched.

On the big picture stuff, anyone who's confidently making predictions about what they reckon will happen in a hypothetical 2024/2025 general election is obviously daft. I reckon there's going to be a load more mental unpredictable stuff that happens between now and the end of 2023 that will leave us in a situation that no-one was fully expecting, surely that's the only thing anyone can predict with any confidence?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Liz Truss ditches pledge to raise pensions with inflation
> 
> 
> The prime minister's spokesman says she is "not making any commitments", as she searches for spending cuts.
> ...


It sure as hell ain't Truss's. 

Hunt is probably under instruction as well, tbh, from whoever it is that brokered the deal to get him the job.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Fuck me, 45% of them would _still_ vote for Truss?  That’s incredible.


Strange cult. They're not like normal people.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Strange cult. They're not like normal people.


They don’t even have the survival of the party as part of their drive. It literally comes down to the determination to not have the brown one, doesn’t it? That’s overrides everything.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> They don’t even have the survival of the party as part of their drive. It literally comes down to the determination to not have the brown one, doesn’t it? That’s overrides everything.


For a significant minority, I'm sure that's the case yes. Although if a black person is also swivel-eyed, like Badenoch, that must cause cognitive dissonance.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 18, 2022)

A lot Tories despise Sunak for Covid/lockdown reasons. Mad reasons naturally.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 18, 2022)

Corbyn-like parallel, popular with the membership, gets 'couped' by centrists and markets, would still be popular with the membership


----------



## Knotted (Oct 18, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Corbyn-like parallel, popular with the membership, gets 'couped' by centrists and markets, would still be popular with the membership



I'm not sure the membership are still for Truss. She's failed on her own terms.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 18, 2022)

Knotted said:


> I'm not sure the membership are still for Truss. She's failed on her own terms.


We’re discussing a poll that says 45% of the membership would still vote for her!


----------



## bimble (Oct 18, 2022)

Because I’m an idiot I popped over to DM comments yesterday, there’s a loud and frankly frightening contingent there who seem to be fans of liz truss because she’s blonde and owns a pair of boobs, maybe those nutters are this 45% of Tory members idk seems quite possible.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> We’re discussing a poll that says 45% of the membership would still vote for her!



Against Sunak. I don't read that as a ringing endorsement.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 18, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Strange cult. They're not like normal people.


I only Know one Tory Party Member  he voted for Truss 
He wants Boris back..I think he's quite representative


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 18, 2022)

pots and kettles spring to mind...


----------



## brogdale (Oct 18, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> View attachment 347721
> 
> pots and kettles spring to mind...


Yep, as much pot-on-kettle as it is blue-on-blue.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 18, 2022)

killer b said:


> My money is currently on Morduant as the one with the least enemies who actually wants the job of the top candidates


Agree with this above


Petcha said:


> Her perfomance yesterday was fucking brilliant to be fair. Killing her softly. Her pauses to allow the jeers after confirming that 'the prime minister isn't hiding under a desk'
> 
> I didn't think the partygate thing could be topped in terms of absolute tory schadenfruede but, no, they've upped their game


It was certainly better than her televised Tory hustings effort but I imagine her personal ambition, exceeds her abilities. It cannot be stated enough, the tories have no mp of ability that would be able to navigate the shit they have caused.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 18, 2022)

flypanam said:


> Agree with this above
> 
> It was certainly better than her televised Tory hustings effort but I imagine her personal ambition, exceeds her abilities. It cannot be stated enough, the tories have no mp of ability that would be able to navigate the shit they have caused.



Well, no, Rishi Sunak is capable of doing exactly that. He predicted virtually everything that has happened almost word for word. He's been wisely completely staying away from this shitstorm. And he could actually win a general election which is a bit concerning.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 18, 2022)

Graceless, charmless, useless, brainless.
Eggescellent. 





__





						Edwina Currie says Liz Truss is ‘charmless, graceless, brainless and useless’
					





					www.msn.com


----------



## Supine (Oct 18, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Corbyn-like parallel, popular with the membership, gets 'couped' by centrists and markets, would still be popular with the membership



The other parallel is getting the membership to choose. A rule they borrowed from labour. Regrettably.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well, no, Rishi Sunak is capable of doing exactly that. He predicted virtually everything that has happened almost word for word. He's been wisely completely staying away from this shitstorm. And he could actually win a general election which is a bit concerning.


Nah he’s a loser.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

hash tag said:


> \Graceless, charmless, useless, brainless.
> Eggescellent.
> 
> 
> ...


Tory group think is not pleasant. Those that live by the sword etc


----------



## xenon (Oct 18, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Fuck me, 45% of them would _still_ vote for Truss?  That’s incredible.



You must have heard some of them speak during the leadership campaign? The osified special thinking dolts that make up a lot of the membership.


----------



## Thesaint (Oct 18, 2022)

Still there is two years until the next GE so anything could happen and these days you would put money on it. 
If energy prices come back down and the pound recovers a bit that might give Truss some 'luck' she could fall back on...If she stays long enough though.


----------



## xenon (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Well, no, Rishi Sunak is capable of doing exactly that. He predicted virtually everything that has happened almost word for word. He's been wisely completely staying away from this shitstorm. And he could actually win a general election which is a bit concerning.



Ah jesus man stop with your hardon for Sunak, it's embarrassing.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 18, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Corbyn-like parallel,


not sure he'd appreciate the comparison really


----------



## Petcha (Oct 18, 2022)

xenon said:


> Ah jesus man stop with your hardon for Sunak, it's embarrassing.



I was commenting on the electability of a candidate. Like it or not, Sunak's approval ratings would suggest he could win a GE. If you're not willing to acknowledge that, then well.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

I can't see it tbh. Probably 'cause your massive hard on for Sunak is in the way.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 18, 2022)

bimble said:


> It’s going to be mordant I’m pretty sure, sunak chancellor. They’ll probably win the next election.


will they bollocks. they are utterly utterly stuffed.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 18, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> I only Know one Tory Party Member  he voted for Truss
> He wants Boris back..I think he's quite representative



I've only spoken to one tory member, he didn't vote for Truss, nor does he want Johnson back.


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Sunak's approval ratings


have you even looked at these recently or do you just repeat whatever bollocks the tories you work with tell you?


----------



## bimble (Oct 18, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> will they bollocks. they are utterly utterly stuffed.


i think it's living where i do thats made me this defeatist. People here might vote tory in smaller numbers next time but they'll still win.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I was commenting on the electability of a candidate. Like it or not, Sunak's approval ratings would suggest he could win a GE. If you're not willing to acknowledge that, then well.


He lost a leadership contest to Liz Truss. _Liz Truss_ of all people.

Three points:

1. The Tories cannot hold a leadership election, try out the winner, then when she doesn’t work out, appoint the loser. That makes a mockery of the leadership contest.
2. It’s bad enough leaders coming and going without a general election, but with no party democracy either? It’s no longer the 1950s. 
3. _Liz Truss_. He lost to _Liz Truss_.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 18, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> He lost a leadership contest to Liz Truss. _Liz Truss_ of all people.
> 
> Three points:
> 
> ...



Tory MPs were elected by about 14 million people to represent them in parliament, they have a bigger mandate to pick their leader than the party membership of under 200k.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2022)

To be fair if I was in a contest to see who tory party members liked best I would very much hope to lose it.


----------



## contadino (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I've only spoken to one tory member, he didn't vote for Truss, nor does he want Johnson back.


I know a couple of Tories who are adamant that John Redwood is going to grab the baton and save us all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Tory MPs were elected by about 14 million people to represent them in parliament, they have a bigger mandate to pick their leader than the party membership of under 200k.


Ah, an Edmund Burke admirer.  Yes, well, you’d get on well with Mike Smithson, but constitution-less constitution aside, it’s not going to be Sunak.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Tory MPs were elected by about 14 million people to represent them in parliament, they have a bigger mandate to pick their leader than the party membership of under 200k.


13,966,454 bastards


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Tory MPs were elected by about 14 million people to represent them in parliament, they have a bigger mandate to pick their leader than the party membership of under 200k.


Do you think those 14m are happy with being represented as they are atm?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 18, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Do you think those 14m are happy with being represented as they are atm?


They are being treated exactly like they’re an ATM.


----------



## stavros (Oct 18, 2022)

From the BBC website. To be honest they haven't been that original in their ideas:


----------



## two sheds (Oct 18, 2022)

You were hoping for 50 ways to leave your Trusser?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 18, 2022)

stavros said:


> From the BBC website. To be honest they haven't been that original in their ideas:
> 
> View attachment 347734


For those without the app, it’s: 

1. Chopped up and distributed between different food recycling bins.
2. Acid bath.
3. Weighted and thrown in Thames from the Members’ patio.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2022)

stavros said:


> From the BBC website. To be honest they haven't been that original in their ideas:
> 
> View attachment 347734



Not very imaginative no. If nothing else there are lot more than three top-floor windows in London, to say nothing of lampposts.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 18, 2022)

Mark drakeford looks to be at end of his rope with it all!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 18, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Do you think those 14m are happy with being represented as they are atm?



No, but I am sure they would be happier without Truss as PM.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 18, 2022)

She hasn't stayed thus far because she is loved, she has stayed thus far because the minds of the 1922 commitee can't yet work out how to get rid of her without requiring the membership.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 18, 2022)

weltweit said:


> She hasn't stayed thus far because she is loved, she has stayed thus far because the minds of the 1922 commitee can't yet work out how to get rid of her without requiring the membership.



They know how to get rid of her, the problem is getting the MPs to unite behind a replacement.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 18, 2022)

Someone said on the radio earlier her approval rating is lower than prince Andrews.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 18, 2022)

Could the lettuce still win?


----------



## xenon (Oct 18, 2022)

Petcha said:


> I was commenting on the electability of a candidate. Like it or not, Sunak's approval ratings would suggest he could win a GE. If you're not willing to acknowledge that, then well.



He didn't even win the vote amongst Tory superfans, you think the rest of the country is just dying for another 5 years of Tory rule with him (or any of them TBH.?)

I can well believe they'll close the gap, polls wise and could even win again in 24 with some sensible centerist relatively speaking) .  But Danny has put it more elequently how putting Sunak in charge looks.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 18, 2022)

There appears to be a thought that it's hunt running things, not truss.....


----------



## killer b (Oct 18, 2022)

hash tag said:


> There appears to be a thought that it's hunt running things, not truss.....


have you got the world on a three-day delay or something?


----------



## Chz (Oct 18, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Graceless, charmless, useless, brainless.
> Eggescellent.
> 
> 
> ...


Takes one to know one, doesn't it?


----------



## hash tag (Oct 18, 2022)

Chz said:


> Takes one to know one, doesn't it?


It gives a clue about what other Tories really think of truss. How many more thoughts like that but are not spoken. 
Besides, who would disagree.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 18, 2022)

I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot of late, as many years ago I knew some of the key behind the scenes players in it. Basically, from their perspective, they've still won. Sure, on the face of it the 'Tufton Street Agenda' crashed the economy and looked ridiculous, but they don't care. Crashing the economy means more public spending cuts, which is what they want. It means key public services may have to be sold off in order still to exist, which is what they want. They're going to ground now obviously, but they're still there, and they'll still be winning, just like they have been since winning Brexit back in 2016. 

The plan has been obvious all along. The only surprising thing about any of it is how very few people seemed to notice what it was.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 18, 2022)

what is the likelihood of Boris returning?


----------



## agricola (Oct 18, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> I've been thinking about this whole situation a lot of late, as many years ago I knew some of the key behind the scenes players in it. Basically, from their perspective, they've still won. Sure, on the face of it the 'Tufton Street Agenda' crashed the economy and looked ridiculous, but they don't care. Crashing the economy means more public spending cuts, which is what they want. It means key public services may have to be sold off in order still to exist, which is what they want. They're going to ground now obviously, but they're still there, and they'll still be winning, just like they have been since winning Brexit back in 2016.
> 
> The plan has been obvious all along. The only surprising thing about any of it is how very few people seemed to notice what it was.



I am not so sure about that - I mean, that probably was their plan and they probably do see themselves as "winning".  

I just don't think they have realised what it ("winning") is likely to mean for them, in much the same way that the last rulers of the Raj successfully managed to make white rule, the colonial legal system and exploitation of the subcontinent an obvious fact - right before they got kicked out, never to return.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> what is the likelihood of Boris returning?


There was a rumour that his people supported Truss because he knew she would mess it up and he would be able to get back in, but she’s done it too quickly.


----------



## LDC (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> what is the likelihood of Boris returning?



IMO zero. It would make them look absolutely desperate and a total joke.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 18, 2022)

LDC said:


> IMO zero. It would make them look absolutely desperate and a total joke.


Ah…


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 18, 2022)

LDC said:


> IMO zero. It would make them look absolutely desperate and a total joke.


Whereas now...


----------



## LDC (Oct 18, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Whereas now...



Even more so... if that's possible.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 18, 2022)

agricola said:


> I am not so sure about that - I mean, that probably was their plan and they probably do see themselves as "winning".
> 
> I just don't think they have realised what it ("winning") is likely to mean for them, in much the same way that the last rulers of the Raj successfully managed to make white rule, the colonial legal system and exploitation of the subcontinent an obvious fact - right before they got kicked out, never to return.



In many ways it's too late though. They've obfuscated and disinformed long enough that there are now two sides to some arguments where there should be one. Climate change for example. More pragmatically, is the NHS going to survive the spending cuts, or will healthcare have to be privatised to continue if the government can no longer afford to pay for it? Likewise other public services. These are the people that wanted charter cities. A financially weakened state only makes that idea more likely.

The odd, but perhaps telling thing about some of these people is that they used to be influential Lib Dems in the days of the Orange Book faction in that party. They did what they did to the Lib Dems, shifting them right and destroying them for at least a generation, purely to promote their agenda, then moved on to the Tories. If they've now destroyed the Tories for a generation, in their eyes so be it, they'll move on to the next opportunity to promote their agenda. People still see politics through the lense of alliegance, 'us vs them', whether that's 'our party vs your party' or 'our class vs your class' or 'our wing vs your wing' or even 'our country vs your country'. None of this matters to these people. There's just their goals, and that's that. Everything else is malleable in the name of achieving them.


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> what is the likelihood of Boris returning?


Terrifying, but not impossible.


 I think the tory membership  voted Truss in because Sunak "stabbed Boris in the back".  A "Bring Back Boris" campaign could well put him in charge of the tories before the next election.  Boris's fans don't give a fuck about the parties and scandals.  They like him because he's a bit of a lad.  Bending rules is a tory thing.  

Did people vote for Boris in 2019, or for Get Brexit Done? Both probably, but a Johnson led tory party could save their skins.  Maybe not win the election, but possibly avoid not even being the opposition.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> what is the likelihood of Boris returning?



I wouldn't rule him out forever, but he'll certainly sit this one out. He knows he'd lose (probably his own seat too), and he's started to make silly money for turning up somewhere in a tuxedo, rambling on, and quaffing champers at someone else's expense.


----------



## story (Oct 18, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> He lost a leadership contest to Liz Truss. _Liz Truss_ of all people.
> 
> Three points:
> 
> ...



You’re being too logical. We’re way past this and into the realm of 52 card pick-up politics.



agricola said:


> I am not so sure about that - I mean, that probably was their plan and they probably do see themselves as "winning".
> 
> I just don't think they have realised what it ("winning") is likely to mean for them, in much the same way that the last rulers of the Raj successfully managed to make white rule, the colonial legal system and exploitation of the subcontinent an obvious fact - right before they got kicked out, never to return.




The mistake you’re making is to think this is all being done by and for the politicos, the MPs. The people who are pushing the agenda and so forth that Gerry1time is talking about aren’t MPs. The party in power is their tool.They’ve had uninterrupted decades of doing it their way and creaming the profit off the top.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 18, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> 3. _Liz Truss_. He lost to _Liz Truss_.


they ALL lost to Liz Truss


----------



## brogdale (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> what is the likelihood of Boris returning?


Johnson


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2022)

ska invita said:


> they ALL lost to Liz Truss



We all lost to Liz Truss.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 18, 2022)

Even Liz Truss has lost to Liz Truss.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 18, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Even Liz Truss has lost to Liz Truss.




The country gets the PM it deserves not what it needs


----------



## Wilf (Oct 18, 2022)

In practice, the tory members are out of the game now.  The 1922 itself decides the rules (they may have to put those rules through conference at some point - can't be arsed to check - but they certainly  the body that seems to have the power to change the rules in these kind of circumstances).  Things are so bad at the moment that the poll mentioned upthread about members being happy for it to be done by MPs is probably itself sufficient for the Brady Bunch to take charge.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 18, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> what is the likelihood of Boris returning?


Zero at the moment. Whether because there's a ruthless politico behind the blustering exterior or because he just can't be fagged doesn't really matter - he's not going to come back unless he can waltz to victory like in 2019, and that hardly seems plausible right now.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> The country gets the PM it deserves not what it needs



What complete bollocks. We deserve someone who won't sell us all down the river for a few donations from hedge fund types.


----------



## Ming (Oct 18, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> that's a bold claim


Sounds a bit rude.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

I've no idea what will happen next except that Truss is toast and the Tories will try to come up with some plan to replace her that allows them to avoid a general election that they will lose. 

They may well fail in that attempt because the tories have no idea what they are doing. I think we need to remember that. It's not just Truss who's a fuckwit. There are hundreds of them in parliament. Every MP who voted for Truss, for starters.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> What complete bollocks. We deserve someone who won't sell us all down the river for a few donations from hedge fund types.




Yesterday was an extra cynical day, I’ll try and do better.

I’m so fucking tired.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 19, 2022)

PMQs should be fun.  If Starmer doesn't open with "How nice of the current PM to join us" there's something wrong with the world.

Also "last week the right honourable member for South West Norfolk tried to turn this into Leader of the Opposition's Questions. A reminder that she is, for now at least, still supposed to be answering the questions asked."


----------



## ska invita (Oct 19, 2022)

Man U v Spurs will be a better contest than this Sunday league crap


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> PMQs should be fun.  If Starmer doesn't open with "How nice of the current PM to join us" there's something wrong with the world.
> 
> Also "last week the right honourable member for South West Norfolk tried to turn this into Leader of the Opposition's Questions. A reminder that she is, for now at least, still supposed to be answering the questions asked."



He's also got to hit her with her absolute promise of no spending cuts, that she made during PMQs last week.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Man U v Spurs will be a better contest than this Sunday league crap



Well, that throw me, anyway, back to Truss.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> PMQs should be fun.  If Starmer doesn't open with "How nice of the current PM to join us" there's something wrong with the world.
> 
> Also "last week the right honourable member for South West Norfolk tried to turn this into Leader of the Opposition's Questions. A reminder that she is, for now at least, still supposed to be answering the questions asked."



Similarly, he needs to open the first PMQs with whoever the new one is with, 'we'd like to welcome this week's prime minster...'


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

A little light relief:


----------



## Supine (Oct 19, 2022)

Haha, todays fracking vote is a three line whip. Labour ready with attack adverts for any tories who vote to allow fracking. Some tory mp’s will be very unhappy about this.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 19, 2022)

There is a truly brilliant episode of the Muppets where Dr Honeydew invents flammable water and then accidentally starts a fire in the lab. Beaker is running around screaming trying to extinguish the fire only for things to get much worse.
Pretty much sums up the governing of this country at the moment.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 19, 2022)

And it's on YouTube and still funny (unlike Truss; Henson was a genius)


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

edit - Beaten to it with that clip so I'll just say I dont know if I can face watching PMQs.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> He lost a leadership contest to Liz Truss. _Liz Truss_ of all people.
> 
> Three points:
> 
> ...


Tbh, though I know what you mean, "trying something out then changing if it turns out to not work" actually seems like a fairly sensible approach in general terms!

Also, sure this point has been made already, but he lost in a contest to Liz Truss among Tory members. That's a different contest, judged on different metrics, to a general election among the general public.

Not saying he _would_ win, simply that his loss to Truss is not necessarily indicative of how he'd fare with the wider public.

Or against Starmer


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

It going to get lot more interesting tonight if a load of Tories lose the whip lol


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> He's also got to hit her with her absolute promise of no spending cuts, that she made during PMQs last week.



See also: _Does this mean the Prime Minister is  also part of the Anti Growth Coalition_ etc


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

More lost whips than 1am at an Indiana Jones convention.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 19, 2022)

Godalmighty.

These Tory members




ETA Apologies for the twitter link. Here's a better one: ‘I voted for Liz Truss – now I regret it’


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Godalmighty.
> 
> These Tory members



A bit late people


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 19, 2022)

The state of those ...I bet they're on the database for call-centre scammers ...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## A380 (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 19, 2022)

I haven't followed all the details, but having listened to that fracking co. bloke on LBC this fracking thing isn't actually a viable option, but simply a way to pump billions to Party Donors for the "evaluation phase" while also aiming to placate the anti-green swivel-eyed?


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

Tea break from doing my tax return, tuning in to watch liz truss having a worse day than i am. Its packed in there.


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

crikey she's doing much better than i thought she would.


----------



## LDC (Oct 19, 2022)

I started but can't cope with her. Making action against strikers one of her 'big points'.

If I had any say I'd get them all to point and laugh at her and walk out on her.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 19, 2022)

She’s wearing another Thatcher cosplay outfit, I see.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> crikey she's doing much better than i thought she would.


Yes, she has come out on the attack and Starmer doesnt know how to fight back, I can't bare to watch.....
eta:
I watched a bit of the Davis Davis crap earlier and I swear that after listening to the reply to one of her questions a lib dem MP actualy said 'what a twat' (lip reading, not heard), something I can thouroughly agree with


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Oh, fuck it, for some reason I thought it started at 12:30pm


----------



## Chz (Oct 19, 2022)

There's a lot of Truss telling Starmer that he's not doing anything. He's not the fucking government, you nitwit!


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> crikey she's doing much better than i thought she would.


Starmer's joke writers aren't even that good. He's only attacked her on her character because he is offering nothing different than the Tories this week.


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

Chz said:


> There's a lot of Truss telling Starmer that he's not doing anything. He's not the fucking government, you nitwit!


Boris did that alot.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

> She then went on to continue to criticise Starmer for not dealing with "militant unions".


Funnily enough, I'm highly critical of Starmer for not dealing with unions too, but fairly confident it's not in the same way Truss means.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 19, 2022)

First PMQs I’ve watched in years.  It’s really dull, isn’t it?  Even for a politics nerd like me.  There’s nothing of substance whatsoever, just tedious soundbites interspersed with pointless comments about things like Leigh Rugby Club.


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

who'd have thought cunt tennis was going to be anything other than shit.


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

Protecting the triple lock. I hope she's allowed to say that.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

She's said she & Hunt are committed to the triple lock on pensions.

So, that's fucked now.


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

Small brain but balls of steel, to stand there in the howls for her to resign repeatedly shouting 'we have delivered on the energy price cap' with a straight face.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Chz said:


> There's a lot of Truss telling Starmer that he's not doing anything. He's not the fucking government, you nitwit!


Also rather dangerous line to open up, given that the UK would arguably be in a better position had the Truss' government done nothing, and her Chancellor has tried as hard as possible to make it as if they had.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

kabbes said:


> First PMQs I’ve watched in years.  It’s really dull, isn’t it?  Even for a politics nerd like me.  There’s nothing of substance whatsoever, just tedious soundbites interspersed with pointless comments about things like Leigh Rugby Club.


Yeah, it's one of the reasons I rarely actually watch stuff like this, Question Time, etc. You rarely get to actually hear anything worth listening to, even including stuff you disagree with!

No point feeling you should pay attention to something in order to be informed, when there's fuck all chance of it ever actually informing you of anything!


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> She's said she & Hunt are committed to the triple lock on pensions.
> 
> So, that's fucked now.


Does hunt know about this


----------



## LDC (Oct 19, 2022)

It's all ridiculous theatre, the illusion of democracy as entertainment. They'll all bury their differences and have a drink in the bar together later.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

> "I am a fighter and not a quitter," Truss says



THAT IS NOT A VIRTUE if your fighting consists of spinning around wildly, causing collateral carnage, purely in an effort to save yourself.

Lacking the good sense or decency to quit is not the boast you think it is.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 19, 2022)

Am I wrong that she's still throwing hundreds of millions of pounds at energy companies for no return? 

No I never watch question time or similar, they just make me angry. Only one I ever heard (radio 4 version) was when they had four academics with no political point scoring it was actually interesting.


----------



## LDC (Oct 19, 2022)

I think she'll survive btw.


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

i'm disappointed, that was shit. No schadenfreude at all.
If the job of PM is basically to evade responsibility for anything at all and just do some repetitive soundbites then she's fine they'll leave her there.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Also, sure this point has been made already, but he lost in a contest to Liz Truss among Tory members. That's a different contest, judged on different metrics, to a general election among the general public.


Well yes, but for Sunak to be in the running for PM at a general election he would need to be the leader of a party or of a coalition in the House willing to put him forward as prospective PM.

I don’t understand what it is about this that people aren’t getting.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 19, 2022)

kabbes said:


> First PMQs I’ve watched in years.  It’s really dull, isn’t it?  Even for a politics nerd like me.  There’s nothing of substance whatsoever, just tedious soundbites interspersed with pointless comments about things like Leigh Rugby Club.


Same, I can't remember last time, probably during Brexit. It has left me a bit shaken tbh. I mean I know they all a bunch of twats but ffs they are all just...well I dont have the words


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Well yes, but for Sunak to be in the running for PM at a general election he would need to be the leader of a party or of a coalition in the House willing to put him forward as prospective PM.
> 
> I don’t understand what it is about this that people aren’t getting.


Sorry, I thought we were talking about his chances in the next GE assuming he took over as PM before then.

So are you suggesting the Tory MPs (or members) wouldn't install him as PM, and it would have to be someone who wasn't involved in the last leadership election (since, as someone else pointed out, all of those candidates lost to Truss)?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Sorry, I thought we were talking about his chances in the next GE assuming he took over as PM before then.
> 
> So are you suggesting the Tory MPs (or members) wouldn't install him as PM, and it would have to be someone who wasn't involved in the last leadership election (since, as someone else pointed out, all of those candidates lost to Truss)?


The Tories (or someone else) would need to install Sunak as their leader and (therefore) candidate for PM.  They will not. 

It’s as simple as that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yeah, it's one of the reasons I rarely actually watch stuff like this, Question Time, etc. You rarely get to actually hear anything worth listening to, even including stuff you disagree with!
> 
> No point feeling you should pay attention to something in order to be informed, when there's fuck all chance of it ever actually informing you of anything!


Correct. PMQs are a pointless set piece.


----------



## Serge Forward (Oct 19, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> The state of those ...I bet they're on the database for call-centre scammers ...


No one deserves to be phone scammed... but I'd gladly make an exception for this shower of twats.


----------



## izz (Oct 19, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> Same, I can't remember last time, probably during Brexit. It has left me a bit shaken tbh. I mean I know they all a bunch of twats but ffs they are all just...well I dont have the words


Heartily concur old bean - politics in this country is at least giving the rest of the world a jolly good chortle, fucks sake, I've never been particularly proud to be British but I've become quite thoroughly ashamed.

You can see that they're (almost) all just out to make as much money for themselves as possible, enjoy what power they have as much as possible, enjoy all the official and unofficial perks, fair makes me nauseous. 
As you were !


----------



## Numbers (Oct 19, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> There is a truly brilliant episode of the Muppets where Dr Honeydew invents flammable water and then accidentally starts a fire in the lab. Beaker is running around screaming trying to extinguish the fire only for things to get much worse.
> Pretty much sums up the governing of this country at the moment.


Bit like the Man vs Bee Netflix series with Rowan Atkinson.


----------



## andysays (Oct 19, 2022)

Breaking news story on the BBC about Truss's Special Adviser being suspended and under investigation by the Propriety and Ethics team.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

andysays said:


> Breaking news story on the BBC about Truss's Special Adviser being suspended and under investigation by the Propriety and Ethics team.


Its probably in regards the Javid is shit thing:









						Senior adviser to Liz Truss suspended pending investigation
					

Mr Stein was a key aide during Ms Truss's leadership campaign and had been serving as the acting head of political communications in Number 10.




					news.sky.com
				






> There had been anger among some Conservative MPs about briefings from Number 10 sources over the weekend.
> 
> The Sunday Times reported that a Number 10 source had told them Sajid Javid had not been considered for the chancellor role following Kwasi Kwarteng's sacking because he is "s**t".


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> Its probably in regards the Javid is shit thing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



having seen an image of him for the first time, it could also be down to him smuggling dinosaur embryos out of the park


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> having seen an image of him for the first time, it could also be down to him smuggling dinosaur embryos out of the park


For Prince Andrew to have sex with?

To quote an old fucking daily mail article:



> The guru hired by Prince Andrew to spearhead a PR 'fightback' following the Jeffrey Epstein scandal 'quit' just weeks into the job, ahead of the Duke's bombshell BBC interview, it was revealed last night.
> 
> Jason Stein started as Communications Secretary to the Duke in September.
> 
> Stein was Amber Rudd's former Special Adviser and developed a reputation at Westminster as a 'master of the dark arts'.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> For Prince Andrew to have sex with?
> 
> To quote an old fucking daily mail article:



Westminster must be the easiest place in the country to earn a reputation for Machiavellian antics.  Imagine the _power_ that Amber Rudd's chief enforcer must have wielded.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 19, 2022)

What happened Sajid "Shit" Javid's question?  He was down to get 2nd Q, no mention of it on the Grauniad commentary.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> Westminster must be the easiest place in the country to earn a reputation for Machiavellian antics.  Imagine the _power_ that Amber Rudd's chief enforcer must have wielded.


Fuckety fuck at work so couldn't tune in but I really thought even Shammer would have been able to land some heavy blows on Librium Liz


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> Its probably in regards the Javid is shit thing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Another shocking discovery.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> What happened Sajid "Shit" Javid's question?  He was down to get 2nd Q, no mention of it on the Grauniad commentary.


Maybe the Stein suspension put paid to that question for procedural reasons.


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> Westminster must be the easiest place in the country to earn a reputation for Machiavellian antics.  Imagine the _power_ that Amber Rudd's chief enforcer must have wielded.


I can't even remember who Amber Rudd was tbh. (Minister for something or other but 🤷‍♀️.)


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 19, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Fuckety fuck at work so couldn't tune in but I really thought even Shammer would have been able to land some heavy blows on Librium Liz


From the bits I heard, passive_voice-tastic - I'm sure there will be some harvestable quotes from that load of codswallop.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 19, 2022)

Sue said:


> I can't even remember who Amber Rudd was tbh. (Minister for something or other but 🤷‍♀️.)


Kamikaze Kwarteng's *main *squeeze allegedly.


----------



## story (Oct 19, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Fuckety fuck at work so couldn't tune in but I really thought even Shammer would have been able to land some heavy blows on Librium Liz



Never mind. Catch up on the commentary and then watch it later on YouTube at increased speed, skip through the nonsense and slow it down to see the bits that you want to form your own opinion on. Saves a lot of time to do the news this way, I find.


ETA
I also consume a lot of R4 news on catch up as soon as it’s available that way. It doesn’t put me more than about 40 minutes behind any news, which is fairly meaningless unless it’s a breaking story. I can skip the sports and weather, go back and check details for city news (cos I’m a dunce about most of that and need to listen twice sometimes) etc.


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Kamikaze Kwarteng's *main *squeeze allegedly.


Seriously? Couldn't care less who is (allegedly) shagging who.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 19, 2022)

Sue said:


> Seriously? Couldn't care less who is (allegedly) shagging who.


Human interest


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Human interest


They are _not _human.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

I've said previously how I can't help but feel an instinctive sympathy when individuals are publicly condemned and ostracised for corruption by peers who are _absolutely _guilty of the same thing, and just haven't been caught. I don't disagree with the criticism, I can just understand how galling it must be to be subject to a violent torrent of such pompous, disingenuous hypocrisy.

Turns out I feel similar when a Tory MP is accused of being incompetent.


----------



## Supine (Oct 19, 2022)

Duncan2 said:


> Fuckety fuck at work so couldn't tune in but I really thought even Shammer would have been able to land some heavy blows on Librium Liz



His first question got a proper laugh from me. 

And she got skewered on the pension inflation question which will come back to bite her. Such fun


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> having seen an image of him for the first time, it could also be down to him smuggling dinosaur embryos out of the park


Fucking niche, I love it.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Anyway, PMQs is just a side show, she's as fucked now as she was 24 hours ago. 
As I've said before, I still think they'll stick with her but only because there is no 'unity' candidate. 

The problem is Labour still look shite, Starmer always seems a bit (a lot) meek, and I can't think of any policy ideas they've got other than "you know the Tories? Whatever they're doing, we're not."


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 19, 2022)

How likely are Mogg, Braverman, Coffey et al. to be vulnerable in the short term ?


----------



## weepiper (Oct 19, 2022)

Oh dear, another auntie must have died


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 19, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Oh dear, another auntie must have died



Any surviving relatives would be wise to take out life insurance now.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Oh dear, another auntie must have died



Something is afoot it seeme


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Oh dear, another auntie must have died



I had completely missed the revelations about that until now.









						Liz Truss 'pretended relatives had died' to duck BBC Question Time
					

LIZ Truss used to pretend “minor members” of her family had died to get out of media appearances, one of her former aides has revealed.




					www.heraldscotland.com


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

I officially don't understand anything that is going on now. 

PMQs as tedious as ever. Some run-of-the-mill sleaze inquiry into a SPAD as breaking news that we're somehow supposed to care about. It's like business as usual all of a sudden.


----------



## Smangus (Oct 19, 2022)

It's tedius because if they destroy her she is ended. It suits Labour for her to stay, as long as possible.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Something is afoot it seeme



Nothings afoot she's just shit


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 19, 2022)

Genius by Starmer to give Truss a little breathing space. Ruthlessly tearing her to shreds might force her party to replace her with Mordaunt or Sunak then Labour's gains in the polls might start to evaporate


----------



## Supine (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I officially don't understand anything that is going on now.
> 
> PMQs as tedious as ever. Some run-of-the-mill sleaze inquiry into a SPAD as breaking news that we're somehow supposed to care about. It's like business as usual all of a sudden.



Apparently the SPAD is the person who briefed that Javid is ‘a shit’ at the weekend. They are just getting rid of the honest guy.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

Supine said:


> Apparently the SPAD is the person who briefed that Javid is ‘a shit’ at the weekend. They are just getting rid of the honest guy.


yeah I know. Who gives a shit who called who shit, though?


----------



## not a trot (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> yeah I know. Who gives a shit who called who shit, though?


All Starmer had to do today, was, stand up, point at the Government and declare you're all shits. Job done, nothing more needed saying.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> Genius by Starmer to give Truss a little breathing space. Ruthlessly tearing her to shreds might force her party to replace her with Mordaunt or Sunak then Labour's gains in the polls might start to evaporate


Thing is The Guardian is now commenting that Starmer did well today precisely by giving Truss more chance to survive. And apparently doing so with a straight face. 

It's hard to tell sarcasm from straight talking at the moment, but I'm pretty sure The Guardian were serious in suggesting that Starmer shouldn't be trying to tear Truss down. 

I don't understand.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 19, 2022)

It's nonsense isn't it. He tried his best but a) he's not very good and b) she was sticking to the Johnson playbook of having a bragging line and an attack line and sticking to it regardless of the actual question, which is pretty effective at getting you through PMQs without attracting much attention, even if it looks shit to the tiny minority of people who care. On its own terms she did pretty well considering from what I saw. Unfortunately for her though it won't make any difference to anything.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

In the bigger picture, pmqs doesn't matter. But still, even with starmer being useless, it's hard to see how truss managed a score draw.  It feels like a post-truth microcosm somehow, with truss refusing to allow her own multiple humiliations and horrors she is inflicting on people into the conversation.  All backed up by the sound effects from the very back benchers who will boot her out at the very first opportunity.  I know it's always been like this in general terms, but it feels like someone accused of murder in court, when confronted with the CCTV and forensics starts rattling on about where they are going on holiday.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 19, 2022)

not a trot said:


> All Starmer had to do today, was, stand up, point at the Government and declare you're all shits. Job done, nothing more needed saying.


would a rousing singalong of "you're shit and you know you are" be considered unparliamentary behaviour & get the opposition expelled from the chamber?


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

Fucking hell Braverman has gone.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

The Guardian are reporting Braverman is no longer Home Secretary


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

Suella Braverman forced to resign as UK home secretary
					

Rightwinger is replaced by Grant Shapps in further serious blow to Truss’s authority




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

Oh, that's a shame.
I liked her.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> He tried his best but... he's not very good


What are you talking about?! He's forensic and unrivalled!!


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> The Guardian are reporting Braverman is no longer Home Secretary


Just heard that too still not looking good for Truss and are we expecting more to come


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Suella Braverman forced to resign as UK home secretary
> 
> 
> Rightwinger is replaced by Grant Shapps in further serious blow to Truss’s authority
> ...


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Just heard that too still not looking good for Truss and are we expecting more to come



Is this like when someone gets fired and they go home and kill every family member including the dog?


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

It's not clear to me whether she got the boot or walked - anyone?


----------



## Supine (Oct 19, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Fucking hell Braverman has gone.



Time is up before a time is up thread was created! Superb performance.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 19, 2022)

In order to bring back Grant Shapps apparently.   

Where is Matt Hancock now?


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


>


bloody hell wasn't expecting that. Braverman is incredibly shit at this politics lark. Perhaps she should stick to insulting people and transphobia.


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 19, 2022)

My bet is Truss is gone by the end of the day


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

ItStillWontWork said:


> My bet is Truss is gone by the end of the day



Brave bet


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

ItStillWontWork said:


> My bet is Truss is gone by the end of the day


Well let's ser what happens in the fracking vote


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 19, 2022)

Supine said:


> Time is up before a time is up thread was created! Superb performance.


I predict a speedy appeaance and interview on GBN where they will unwittingly/wittingly reinforce just how shite Truss is. 

Going well so far. Two secretaries down. Coffey next please


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

It's like musical chairs. Without the chairs. Or the music.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's not clear to me whether she got the boot or walked - anyone?


Yeah, I'm unclear on this too, and the lengths I'm willing to go to find out are very minimal.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's not clear to me whether she got the boot or walked - anyone?


sacked by Hunt it seems

Braverman had been critical of the u-turn on tax cuts. criticising government policy not really compatible with being in cabinet at the best of times, but she even went as far as to accuse colleagues of "a coup"


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's like musical chairs. Without the chairs. Or the music.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

spitfire said:


> View attachment 347838
> 
> 
> 
> ...



<cough>

This is the second minister gone in under a week.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's not clear to me whether she got the boot or walked - anyone?



difficult to say - you'd think she would never have walked, but then again there is a gaping void (an actual gaping void, not the one that won the last leadership election) as standard bearer of the fruitcake right now (and so she might have bailed in order to put herself at the head of it, muttering about betrayal)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

TUC Congress currently going on, and there's a good chance that speeches may be out of date before the speaker has left the stage!

As it is, mention of "a Tory government full of sexist bigots" can be applied broadly enough that the current speaker is probably safe...


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

Last nights tofu had its revenge and it wasn’t on me


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 19, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's like musical chairs. Without the chairs. Or the music.


So just a bunch of people in a room running around and periodically falling over?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's not clear to me whether she got the boot or walked - anyone?


If it's a resignation, that's it surely game over?  You can't lose 2 cunts from the 'great offices of state'... in a week.  But then as with the attempts to pry johnson out, there are always a couple of more stages of humiliation, pathetic revamps and running off with the office stapler to go before the axe falls.  There finally comes a point where you can't hide in the fridge/under the desk any longer.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

Confirmed Braverman gone


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 19, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> So just a bunch of people in a room running around and periodically falling over?


Or a "cabinet meeting" to give it the proper title.


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

Peston says she's been _ been asked to resign over an issue relating to “security”._


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 19, 2022)

Suella Braverman forced to resign as UK home secretary
					

Rightwinger is replaced by Grant Shapps in further serious blow to Truss’s authority




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

I can't wait to find out what this security issue is tbf


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

“security related”

Could she not get clearance? The mind boggles.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> So just a bunch of people in a room running around and periodically falling over?


Yes, an excellent definition of government itself (though they do fall in an and out of cars quite a bit).


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 19, 2022)

Did the legislation to make protesters wear ankle tags go through or not?


----------



## kebabking (Oct 19, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> “security related”
> 
> Could she not get clearance? The mind boggles.




Wouldn't be remotely surprised....


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Suella Braverman forced to resign as UK home secretary
> 
> 
> Rightwinger is replaced by Grant Shapps in further serious blow to Truss’s authority
> ...


Bye Sue.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

shortest serving Home Secretary for 188 years


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Oct 19, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I wouldn't rule him (Johnson) out forever, but he'll certainly sit this one out. He knows he'd lose (probably his own seat too), and he's started to make silly money for turning up somewhere in a tuxedo, rambling on, and quaffing champers at someone else's expense.



Liars always make good money telling people lies they'd like to hear.


----------



## prunus (Oct 19, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's like musical chairs. Without the chairs. Or the music.



Unmusical nochairs. 

Or silent standing?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's not clear to me whether she got the boot or walked - anyone?



I think it was ultimately the tofu industrial complex that was responsible for her downfall.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> I can't wait to find out what this security issue is tbf



I'd love it if its because she established a fake identity in order to run her IT business.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> “security related”
> 
> Could she not get clearance? The mind boggles.



Dear lord, if this one turns out to be about competency and wholly unrelated to infighting, that's even better! It's not even a single calamity they're having to deal with


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

Ironic if she goes on 'security issues' and gets replaced my multiple identities/outright liar shapps.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I think it was ultimately the tofu industrial complex that was responsible for her downfall.



Japanese cottage industry is a cut throat world - who can forget that the entire plot of _Yojimbo_ is about a fight to the death between criminal gangs; one in the pay of a _sake_ baron and a silk merchant.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 19, 2022)

Well the 'mistake' part is certainly plausible.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

She shared Serciuty info on a private phone with someone she should not have


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

Belatedly astounded by the new level of crazy that made it so braverman was the actual Home Secretary in the first place, even if she only was it for a week. Was that a liz truss decision putting her in that job?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

It's going to be some WhatsApp thing.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Murkier and murkier


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 19, 2022)

It's easy to say it's a "security" matter because then they don't have to give details. It's probably something far more interesting such as accusing Hunt of eating quinoa.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh, that's a shame.
> I liked her.



Thanks a lot - actually just choked on my own saliva, I laughed so suddenly at that.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Murkier and murkier



Probably emailing Badenoch making plans to go out and commit hate crimes against immigrants.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Shortest-serving UK home secretaries (May 1945 onwards)
1. Suella Braverman, 43 days
2. Donald Somervell, 62 days (post-WW2 caretaker)
3. Alan Johnson, 340 days
4. David Waddington, 398 days
5. Kenneth Clarke, 412 days


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 19, 2022)

Shortest since Herbert Samuel in 1916 by my count.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 19, 2022)

Now is the time for a man used to failure Chris Grayling for PM.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

Suella Braverman's time is up.
					

Fucking is too. :D




					www.urban75.net


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> <cough>
> 
> This is the second minister gone in under a week.


Second very senior minister


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 19, 2022)

An AI generated image of Liz Truss running away from Jeremy Hunt:



What on earth Mr Hunt is up to that led to such a panicked flight, I'm not sure


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

Wilf said:


> If it's a resignation, that's it surely game over?  You can't lose 2 cunts from the 'great offices of state'... in a week.



You'd think... but will those 'rules' apply ever again? Now they know you can basically rape and pillage all you like and just style it out and after a week of headlines everyone stops caring, that toothpaste's never going back in that tube.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Oh dear oh dear


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Probably emailing Badenoch making plans to go out and commit hate crimes against immigrants.


And whatever it is, there'll also be a grass at the other end who has reported it.  Even more tory on tory hate.


----------



## Knotted (Oct 19, 2022)

Why is urban75 collectively watching PMQ's???? This is weirder than anything Truss has done.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

ItStillWontWork said:


> An AI generated image of Liz Truss running away from Jeremy Hunt:
> 
> View attachment 347842
> 
> What on earth Mr Hunt is up to that led to such a panicked flight, I'm not sure



Well, from that image it appears he's sewn himself into some kind of human centipede.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

spitfire said:


> Suella Braverman's time is up.
> 
> 
> Fucking is too. :D
> ...


/thread


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Oh dear oh dear



"multiple sources with direct knowledge" - were they all huddled round her phone on the back seats of the number 23?!


----------



## kebabking (Oct 19, 2022)

I understand honest mistakes, they can happen to anyone - indeed, if you can believe it - one happened to me...

I filled out my DV form as usual, listing all my niche porn addictions, but having been distracted for a moment, forgot to put down that my wife was in fact an SVR officer called _Svetlana_ who keeps me locked in the Utility Room, and my £400k gambling debt.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## platinumsage (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Shortest-serving UK home secretaries (May 1945 onwards)
> 1. Suella Braverman, 43 days
> 2. Donald Somervell, 62 days (post-WW2 caretaker)
> 3. Alan Johnson, 340 days
> ...



She didn't beat Richard Grenville-Temple, who resigned both Home and Foreign secretaryships after three days:





__





						Loading…
					





					www.jstor.org


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

some serious shade in that resignation letter.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 19, 2022)

I'm not sure Truss will thank her for all that stuff about accepting responsibility for mistakes.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> some serious shade in that resignation letter.



Indeed. Qualifies as brutal I'd say. Worst I remember seeing.

"Good luck. (you'll need it)."


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

Honourable resignation over procedural matter most people don't give a fuck about vs getting the fuck outta here before even more shit hits the fan...


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> some serious shade in that resignation letter.


Nothing in her office became her so much as the leaving of it.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 19, 2022)

Grant Shapps - FFS. Every time I think the current bunch of wankers can’t get any worse they pull another clueless fucktard out of their never ending box of dildo-heads.  I suppose at least if he is forced to resign, Michael Green can jump straight in to take over.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

Oh, OH ... OH NO! I accidentally parked in Ben Wallace's space. What was I thinking? Well, that's the end of my ministerial career and no mistake. No, I won't hear of it - rules are rules and I have to do the right thing.

_runs away exceptionally fast_


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 19, 2022)

Basically Truss has now fucked off all the people who actually did support her in order to crawl to the people who'll think she's a waste of space regardless hasn't she. 

That's an unfortunate position to be in.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

It doesn't seem like a massive and irrecoverable mistake, really.
Was it that the knives were out she wanted to stick in a couple of her own?


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> some serious shade in that resignation letter.



I think it may be the one occasion she has ever made me laugh - "_... hoping things will magically come right is not serious politics_"


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

No way it’s cos of the email, hopefully she’s done it as a protest or maybe she was just too bonkers for this new very stable and sensible gov we’ve got since Monday and so they decided she had to go.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

8ball said:


> It doesn't seem like a massive and irrecoverable mistake, really.
> Was it that the knives were out she wanted to stick in a couple of her own?


More knives flying around than 1am at an Edward Scissorhands convention.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

"Pretending we haven't made mistakes, carrying on as if everyone can't see that we have made them, and hoping that things will magically come right is not serious politics. I have made a mistake; I accept responsibility; I resign."

Ouch


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> "Pretending we haven't made mistakes, carrying on as if everyone can't see that we have made them, and hoping that things will magically come right is not serious politics. I have made a mistake; I accept responsibility; I resign."
> 
> Ouch



It's quite elegantly done tbf.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 19, 2022)

"I have made a mistake,I accept responsibility,I resign"- she missed out the "I am evil" bit


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

Ok so this is more the kind of thing I was expecting today.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

8ball said:


> It doesn't seem like a massive and irrecoverable mistake, really.
> Was it that the knives were out she wanted to stick in a couple of her own?



She would have been thoroughly inducted on security protocols seeing as she’s essentially in charge of the UK’s security. If she shared a classified doc via WhatsApp or some shitty gmail account on her phone it was a conscious decision. Probably based in her thinking the rules she applies to others do not constrain her. If any other civil servant mishandled classified info they would expect to be given the boot too. Fuck her.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Grant Shapps - FFS. Every time I think the current bunch of wankers can’t get any worse they pull another clueless fucktard out of their never ending box of dildo-heads.  I suppose at least if he is forced to resign, Michael Green can jump straight in to take over.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> She would have been thoroughly inducted on security protocols seeing as she’s essentially in charge of the UK’s security. If she shared a classified doc via WhatsApp or some shitty gmail account on her phone it was a conscious decision. Probably based in her thinking the rules she applies to others do not constrain her. If any other civil servant mishandled classified info they would expect to be given the boot too. Fuck her.


Hmmm. It just sounds like the kind of thing governments do all the time. Leaking shit. 

She's chosen this as the excuse to resign with, surely, in order to write that resignation letter.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> She would have been thoroughly inducted on security protocols seeing as she’s essentially in charge of the UK’s security. If she shared a classified doc via WhatsApp or some shitty gmail account on her phone it was a conscious decision. Probably based in her thinking the rules she applies to others do not constrain her. If any other civil servant mishandled classified info they would expect to be given the boot too. Fuck her.



Oh, it wasn't really sympathy, just that there would be other machinations in play.
It's not like she tried to contract ferrying services from a pretend company that had copied and pasted its T&Cs from a pizza shop.

I bet far worse happens pretty much daily.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

She has made tonight's vote a vote on confidence....

Meanwhile...


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Hmmm. It just sounds like the kind of thing governments do all the time. Leaking shit.
> 
> She's chosen this as the excuse to resign with, surely, in order to write that resignation letter.



V. much my thoughts too.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Hmmm. It just sounds like the kind of thing governments do all the time. Leaking shit.
> 
> She's chosen this as the excuse to resign with, surely, in order to write that resignation letter.



Sounds just as likely like she was grassed up.

I can’t imagine even chinless Hunt being impressed with her performance in Parliament yesterday. Not exactly exuding rational competence.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

and another... this is a three line whip so she will have to sack them. she could lose her majority this evening


----------



## prunus (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> She has made tonight's vote a vote on confidence....
> 
> Meanwhile...




More of this please!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

The Tories seem much better at opposing Truss than Labour.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 19, 2022)

General Election incoming.


----------



## prunus (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> and another... this is a three line whip so she will have to sack them. she could lose her majority this evening




Thanks, that was quick! 🙂


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

If she does not sack them, that is it. Her authority gone. If she does (and if there are enough of them) her majority has gone and that is it.

Vote at 7pm

_popcorn_


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The Tories seem much better at opposing Truss than Labour.



TBF, I think that's Labour's thinking, why go on the attack, better off sitting back and letting the Tory party do the job for you.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> TBF, I think that's Labour's thinking, why go on the attack, better off sitting back and letting the Tory party do the job for you.


Yes, the 'it would be rude to interrupt' line. I guess it has some merit.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 19, 2022)

The ERG apparently think Braverman was stitched up over immigration - a couple of the political hacks reckon the loons might rebel tonight... 

Quality stuff.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 19, 2022)

She's going to lose the fracking/confidence vote, isn't she?

It's all not quite as funny as the clown car resignations of Johnson's Comedy Wednesday, but entertaining none the less.  Truss has to resign before the end of the day or government falls and it's GE time...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## ska invita (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's like business as usual all of a sudden.


...apart from the polls


----------



## LDC (Oct 19, 2022)

Bunch of crack addled ferrets in a sack.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

And another...


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 19, 2022)

Truss revealing previously unsuspected depths of doomed


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 19, 2022)

8ball said:


> Brave bet



Tomorrow morning then


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


>




Well, at least she has united both wings of the party.

Against her.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Seems she was sacked for a security breach which would have acclimations on the markets. And she is pissed off about getting sacked so have left screaming.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 19, 2022)

Are Hunt and Truss not even bothering to talk to each other about policy? Truss says she'll keep the pensions triple lock, Hunt says it might be scrapped then Truss stamps her foot and says it'll be kept.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Sounds just as likely like she was grassed up.



As suspected:


----------



## two sheds (Oct 19, 2022)

cc'd wrong person that's exactly the sort we need for Home Secretary.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## emanymton (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> She has made tonight's vote a vote on confidence....
> 
> Meanwhile...



Do you think that for some tories they end up there as a result of deep childhood trauma?

Like being called skidmark all the way  through school.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

two sheds said:


> cc'd wrong person that's exactly the sort we need for Home Secretary.



Accidently cc'd Yvette Cooper


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Let's not forget Braverman scuppered the India trade deal as well by gobbing off.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


>



"...grateful for your service as Home Secretary. Your time in office was marked by..."

For fuck's sake, her time in office was so short it wouldn't even have been marked by payroll updating her work address!


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

I once wrote a text to my manager whining about a colleague (and calling him a cunt) that kept taking dodgy sickies and I kept being bullied into covering for and then sent it to the colleague. But I'm not the Home Secretary.


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

Why are they telling their MPs that they have to vote for fracking or get dewhipped? Seriously why? I don’t understand any of it.
Moratorium on fracking was their 2019 policy & none of their constituents want to be fracked.
Is it skulduggery like if you don’t have the whip you can’t no confidence Liz?

 If not that then what explains it? Seems entirely mad.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> I once wrote a text to my manager whining about a colleague (and calling him a cunt) that kept taking dodgy sickies and I kept being bullied into covering for and then sent it to the colleague. But I'm not the Home Secretary.


...yet.


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> I once wrote a text to my manager whining about a colleague (and calling him a cunt) that kept taking dodgy sickies and I kept being bullied into covering for and then sent it to the colleague. But I'm not the Home Secretary.



I accidentally signed off an email to my boss with 'retards' rather than 'regards' once. They didn't notice though, so I guess that tells me how much they actually care


----------



## Raheem (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Well let's ser what happens in the fracking vote


Language!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> Why are they telling their MPs that they have to vote for fracking or get dewhipped? Seriously why?* I don’t understand any of it.*
> Moratorium on fracking was their 2019 policy & none of their constituents want to be fracked.
> Is it skulduggery like if you don’t have the whip you can’t no confidence Liz? If not that then what explains it? Seems entirely mad.



Nor does Truss.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


>



we could have all signed that


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Nor does Truss.


Why is it happening it’s not just random chance or that the whip is drunk.
Got to be a reason.

If you lose the whip your no confidence letters get binned , best & only explanation I can think of.


----------



## neonwilderness (Oct 19, 2022)

two sheds said:


> cc'd wrong person that's exactly the sort we need for Home Secretary.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> Why is it happening it’s not just random chance or that the whip is drunk.
> Got to be a reason.



The whips are only acting on Truss' instructions, she is clearly in denial about the lack of support for this policy, and her.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 19, 2022)

It shows how strong she is and how she won't stand for any dissent in HER Conservative Party or else  

:fingers crossed:


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> Why is it happening it’s not just random chance or that the whip is drunk.
> Got to be a reason.


To test the authority of the party. If it can squeeze through a pretty unpopular bill then they can be more confident that they can do business in future. And it's not Truss's authority, it's Hunt et al's.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Blue on blue


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The whips are only acting on Truss' instructions, she is clearly in denial about the lack of support for this policy, and her.


Maybe she wants fewer Tory MPs, if they’re de whipped & so not in the party they can’t no confidence her.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

Does ERG now stand for Expunged Radical Gammon?


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

What time's this vote then?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> What time's this vote then?



About 7pm


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> To test the authority of the party. If it can squeeze through a pretty unpopular bill then they can be more confident that they can do business in future. And it's not Truss's authority, it's Hunt et al's.


Why would you test your authority or their loyalty today though, when you’re very obviously half dead.
It’s like they’re trying to make the MPs eat a steaming shit sandwich live on telly to prove how much they love Liz, or Hunt, which none of them do. Makes no sense.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Parliamentlive.tv
					

House of Commons




					www.parliamentlive.tv


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

There are that many clubs and knives heading in her direction that they are bouncing off each other and never quite hitting the target.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Truss in high spirits is useless. Truss in a crisis will be a car crash.


Strong & stable


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 19, 2022)

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde

*To lose one cabinet member, Ms. Truss, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose two looks like carelessness.*”

I'm enjoying this


----------



## gosub (Oct 19, 2022)

Stull disagree with her over Independence, but got a fair bit of time for Mhairi Black


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 19, 2022)

This is the weirdest fucking dream I've ever had and its going on a bit


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

Tempting.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Shitty when self-interested, power-hungry cunts force you into a position you don't like, eh?


----------



## Cerv (Oct 19, 2022)

it doesn't seem so long ago that the new government was triumphing the point of interest that for the first time in history all four of the great offices of state were held by people not white & male.
now in the space of a week 2 (Chancellor & Home Sec) have been replaced with just that. another 1 (PM not looking to be around for long with a couple leading contenders also a reversion to type.

not suggesting any conspiracy behind it. it just seemed strange how quickly that record breaking combo didn't last.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Awkward


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> What time's this vote then?





cupid_stunt said:


> About 7pm


More fun to look forward to..? 🤞


----------



## Cid (Oct 19, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Strong & stable
> 
> View attachment 347855



Tiny gif, lemme help. Apparently trickery for some Oz documentary for those concerned about watching a car crash.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 19, 2022)

Cid said:


> Tiny gif, lemme help. Apparently trickery for some Oz documentary for those concerned about watching a car crash.


NO INFLUENCERS WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS MEME


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 19, 2022)

Financial Times enjoying crunching some numbers:

Quantifying Britain’s moron risk premium - Financial Times (archived)



> Not a whole lot of value has emerged from the past month’s omnishambles, but one valuable development is the coining of “moron risk premium” — in short, the extra money the UK is paying to borrow because its leaders are a few sandwiches short of a tea party.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Awkward



To ask for an Election?


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Shitty when self-interested, power-hungry cunts force you into a position you don't like, eh?



Exactly! If he votes against fracking his no confidence letter gets binned. 
That’s what it’s about got to be.


----------



## Cid (Oct 19, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> NO INFLUENCERS WERE HARMED IN THE MAKING OF THIS MEME




I'm a little worried about the backs of the lads on the ropes though.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Awkward



Have we reached third "oh dear" territory?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

The wheels on the government go flat flat flat, flat flat, the wheels on the government go flat flat, flat. All day long


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> The wheels on the government go flat flat flat, flat flat, the wheels on the government go flat flat, flat. All day long


More like they have come off


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 19, 2022)

Enjoying the cluster fuck going out live on the news. I really like the the chap with the banners behind the live interviews opposite  parliament. Love his 'MUCH WORSE THAN USELESS' poster of Truss


----------



## Knotted (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> More like they have come off


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

friendofdorothy said:


> Enjoying the cluster fuck going out live on the news. I really like the the chap with the banners behind the live interviews opposite  parliament. Love his 'MUCH WORSE THAN USELESS' poster of Truss




Think Putin is going to paint a Z on it and send it to Ukraine at this rate


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> Why would you test your authority or their loyalty today though, when you’re very obviously half dead.
> It’s like they’re trying to make the MPs eat a steaming shit sandwich live on telly to prove how much they love Liz, or Hunt, which none of them do. Makes no sense.



Could it be a deliberate attempt to force her to resign? That would be great entertainment, especially after this afternoon's 'comeback'.


----------



## pesh (Oct 19, 2022)

Daily Star's lettuce now hugging a pile of tofu.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

pesh said:


> Daily Star's lettuce now hugging a pile of tofu.


Good grief


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Number 4 I think


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

pesh said:


> Daily Star's lettuce now hugging a pile of tofu.




Replace the Kusenberg show now


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

What. The absolute. Fuck.

  

New words will be invented.


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

The advert sales department at the Star must be having fun with this. I wonder how much they charged ToFoo for the product placement?


----------



## xenon (Oct 19, 2022)

ItStillWontWork said:


> My bet is Truss is gone by the end of the day


Ha, no chance. This is suring up the leaking boat. The narative is switching to get behind the govt, no time to focus on internal party differences. Mistakes been made but blah, blah. And thus, she'll win the vote tonight.


----------



## kebabking (Oct 19, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Replace the Kusenberg show now



Fabricant?


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

xenon said:


> Ha, no chance. This is suring up the leaking boat. The narative is switching to get behind the govt, no time to focus on internal party differences. Mistakes been made but blah, blah. And thus, she'll win the vote tonight.


I guess if they've dropped the three line whip we can probably expect a decent size rebellion tbf. I'm doubtful it'll be enough for them to lose it, but


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> What. The absolute. Fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> New words will be invented.



Ummm, well that makes it a confidence vote after all, and she's lost it


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

And here's us stuck with a camera inside the chamber


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> And here's us stuck with a camera inside the chamber





Whose Jess rowing with?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

This is an interesting point. Given how shite most workplace communication is, but even more so with this shower, will everyone be on message that they should no longer not be on message?


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> And here's us stuck with a camera inside the chamber




I like to think Corbs is watching on in amusement, wielding a carrot from his allotment as if it was a giant cigar.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 19, 2022)

Channel 4 ....Chief whip resigned.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> I like to think Corbs is watching on in amusement, wielding a carrot from his allotment as if it was a giant cigar.


Like Castro, you mean??


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

Govt imposes whip then withdraws it at the last minute out of panic. Is that a thing, or is it a another Trussy innovation?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Channel 4 ....Chief whip resigned.


Oh the Governments imploding


----------



## tommers (Oct 19, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Channel 4 ....Chief whip resigned.


Hahahaha. Fucking amazing.


----------



## tommers (Oct 19, 2022)

What an utter shitshow.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Channel 4 ....Chief whip resigned.


Just heard a number of very loud cackles/guffaws in the Commons; who could possibly say if it's to do with this or something else 

They're growing!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

Today started badly with that dull PMQs, but it was a bit of a slow-burner, that was all.


----------



## magneze (Oct 19, 2022)

🍿


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 19, 2022)

Christ. The word 'unprecedented' is becoming routine and redundant.

When do we get to see a televised fist-fight in the Chamber?


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Chief whip and deputy resigned lol


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Speaker calls for "the delay in the No lobby" to be investigated.

It's worthy of the Lapland New Forest thread


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

If the entire Labour party doesn't turn up in t-shirts with this printed on them, they're missing an enormous trick.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is an interesting point. Given how shite most workplace communication is, but even more so with this shower, will everyone be on message that they should no longer not be on message?



Tim Farron has actually just raised this question as a point of order


----------



## Supine (Oct 19, 2022)

‘I saw members being physically manhandled’ 

Is one way to get the votes lol


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

spitfire, we need a no. 3 balloon.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

"I saw members of this house being physically manhandled into another lobby..."
"...and crying"


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

Guardian saying the gov won the vote. What's happening?


----------



## tommers (Oct 19, 2022)

Is this on TV anywhere?


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> Guardian saying the gov won the vote. What's happening?


the government won the vote


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 19, 2022)

tommers said:


> Is this on TV anywhere?



Parliament channel


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 19, 2022)

This is fucking amazing


----------



## nottsgirl (Oct 19, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This is fucking amazing


It’s all getting a bit samey though.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Whoa


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> It’s all getting a bit samey though.


Tough crowd .


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Sue said:


> Tough crowd .


"...Liz Truss was heard to say of her party"


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2022)

Tories physically and bullying people to vote

in a voter that they would of clearly won


stinks of desperation and with the whips quitting jebus


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> the government won the vote


By over a hundred votes when there was a rebellion expected. That's twenty more than their majority.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

Sky is suggesting the majority is so high because the SNP didn't vote, as fracking is banned in Scotland anyway.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 19, 2022)

It's a very British coup.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> By over a hundred votes when there was a rebellion expected. That's twenty more than their majority.


yeah that's a weird bit. Can't imagine the DUP would vote for it, but not sure who else would oppose it.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

Well folks, I'd love to join in the fun here but I've just had the call and apparently I have to be on standby because next time one of them resigns it's my turn to have a ministerial job.

If yours hasn't come up yet don't worry, I'm sure it won't be long.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 19, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> Christ. The word 'unprecedented' is becoming routine and redundant.
> 
> When do we get to see a televised fist-fight in the Chamber?


At this rate tomorrow probably



steveseagull said:


> Chief whip and deputy resigned lol


The way they are going on they will have to take a page out of the Russian Army's playbook and start snatching people off the streets to be Government ministers.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> *By over a hundred votes *when there was a rebellion expected. That's twenty more than their majority.



Nope, 96.


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Parliament channel


It's just people talking about asthma in an empty chamber now.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> By over a hundred votes when there was a rebellion expected. That's twenty more than their majority.


There's 90ish abstentions/absences.  When do we get the breakdown of who got flung across which lobby?  I reckon some of the opposition couldn't be arsed , keep turning the knife slower.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2022)

how to clutch a lost from a victory

only liz truss government


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> It's just people talking about asthma in an empty chamber now.


Yep. Chris Bryant describing Alex Stafford being forced to vote/man handled on sky is better..


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Nope, 96.


I'm applying for Kwasi Kwarteng's job.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Like Castro, you mean??



Fidel-ing whilst the government burns*

* sets itself on fire


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> the government won the vote


They'll be partying tonight!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

There are 356 tory MPs. 326 voted No. I can't imagine many, if any, non-Tories voted No, so maximum 30 rebellion, probably at least one or two are in hospital/on remand or something so absent.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Nice to hear some at Channel 4 still sticking to their channel's roots


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

40 didn;t vote with t the government. No wonder there was a massive climb down on the no confidence


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 19, 2022)

tommers said:


> Is this on TV anywhere?




Please tell me someone has swung for Rees Mogg.


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> 40 didn;t vote with t the government. No wonder there was a massive climb down on the no confidence


So where were the opposition?


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 19, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> If yours hasn't come up yet don't worry, I'm sure it won't be long.



Is this like the covid jab where my Mrs got one six months before me just because she once got some inhalable steroids from the doctor? Is there anything I can do to bump myself up the queue? Only I've got other stuff to be doing, so I'd like to get my Home Secretary service out the way quick smart. Besides, I'd just legalise all the things then have nowt all else to do tbf.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Johnson and Kwarteng voted against the government  

<edit: sorry, they simply didn't vote _with_ the government, most being reported as away.

Including Truss  >


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Please tell me someone has swung for Rees Mogg.



disgracefully, it seems not


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 19, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> Is this like the covid jab where my Mrs got one six months before me just because she once got some inhalable steroids from the doctor? Is there anything I can do to bump myself up the queue? Only I've got other stuff to be doing, so I'd like to get my Home Secretary service out the way quick smart. Besides, I'd just legalise all the things then have nowt all else to do tbf.


It's only going to be a couple of days I'm sure you can squeeze it in.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sky is suggesting the majority is so high because the SNP didn't vote, as fracking is banned in Scotland anyway.





maomao said:


> So where were the opposition?


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 19, 2022)

Gerry1time said:


> Is this like the covid jab where my Mrs got one six months before me just because she once got some inhalable steroids from the doctor? Is there anything I can do to bump myself up the queue? Only I've got other stuff to be doing, so I'd like to get my Home Secretary service out the way quick smart. Besides, I'd just legalise all the things then have nowt all else to do tbf.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Like Castro, you mean??


Shirley you mean Carrotstro


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

lol. she needs to remove the whip from herself


----------



## stavros (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Nice to hear some at Channel 4 still sticking to their channel's roots



That's Krishnan GM, isn't it? I'm sure he did similar off-air when he was presenting Newsround.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 19, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> It's only going to be a couple of days I'm sure you can squeeze it in.



Fair enough, most of my work's over Zoom these days anyway, so can probably double-hat for a bit.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 19, 2022)

From the spectator. 
One MP who witnessed Morton walking past with the Prime Minister’s PPS, tells me: ‘She’s as mad as thunder and is saying ‘unbelievable’.’ Craig Whittaker has just come out of the lobby and said ‘I am fucking furious and I don’t give a fuck anymore.’


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Apparently due to the chaos the votes are not adding up so they are being added up again.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> spitfire, we need a no. 3 balloon.



Sorry dude, have resigned to spend more time painting my bathroom ceiling.

I'll be back tomorrow though, it's all good.  I do what I like, PM's clueless.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

Photo from the lobby


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> lol. she needs to remove the whip from herself



Lol, she's an abstention cos she's off with Charlie (the king, not Colombian.  Or.possibly both).  Ditto the likes of Johnson on the "didn't vote with government" list, surprise surprise the freeloading cunt's on holiday.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

Deputy MoB in da house!

Thanks Ax, I have withdrawn my resignation.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2022)

no worries spitfire


----------



## Storm Fox (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Johnson and Kwarteng voted against the government
> 
> <edit: sorry, they simply didn't vote _with_ the government, most being reported as away.
> 
> Including Truss  >



Is this the correct list as there is one Elizebeth Truss on it? Or did she actually vote against herself? Enquiring minds need to know.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 19, 2022)

It’s a bit lord of the flies innit. We just need a few piggys to crown the evening


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

Sky is now saying about 40 Tories didn't vote, including several government ministers.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Lol, she's an abstention cos she's off with Charlie (the king, not Colombian.  Or.possibly both).  Ditto the likes of Johnson on the "didn't vote with government" list, surprise surprise the freeloading cunt's on holiday.



a reminder that Buckingham Palace is famously the only building in London that has a fridge large enough to house a desk big enough to hide under


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2022)

ress mogg with messy hair 


hmm did someone take a swing at him


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


>



But everyone's saying Truss was with Charlie, hence why she didn't vote


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> But everyone's saying Truss was with Charlie, hence why she didn't vote



at this point it is perfectly logical to believe she walked into Buckingham Palace thinking it was the "no" lobby


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2022)

did you see people point and waving fingers in the out lobby

ress Mogg
_starts waving finger_


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> at this point it is perfectly logical to believe she walked into Buckingham Palace thinking it was the "no" lobby


Fuck it, it's possible she did it thinking it was the Yes lobby!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 19, 2022)

Dumpster fire UK is now at Chernobyl status


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

This isn't saying much, but I honestly can't even remember who the Deputy PM currently is 

<edit: oh aye, it's Coffey >


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2022)

What an absolute shambles. 🍿


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> This isn't saying much, but I honestly can't even remember who the Deputy PM currently is




Therese Coffey, an amateur pharmacist


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> This isn't saying much, but I honestly can't even remember who the Deputy PM currently is



Don't worry, there'll be a new one along in a sec.


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 19, 2022)

Somebody needs to hand out weapons so they can settle this properly.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> Therese Coffey, an amateur pharmacist



TBF, you didn't need to include that last word.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> Therese Coffey, an amateur pharmacist



Don't people get sent down for stuff like that?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 19, 2022)

Yes it’s mirth but it’s so utterly fucking tragic.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 19, 2022)

Sky is reporting that Truss just sacked the chief whip in the lobby, hence the reaction, 'I am no longer the chip whip'.


----------



## Cid (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> Photo from the lobby




Shame he doesn't know how to use the video function on his phone.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sky is reporting that Truss just sacked the chief whip in the lobby, hence the reaction, 'I am no longer the chip whip'.


Whoa mad


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Yes it’s mirth but it’s so utterly fucking tragic.


Aye, tbh have to call myself on this sometimes.

I crack wise as it's my default instinct, and partly out of gallows humour, but whether they're out for each other or out for the most vulnerable and under threat of the public, it's devastating for millions of people either way


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sky is reporting that Truss just sacked the chief whip in the lobby, hence the reaction, 'I am no longer the chip whip'.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sky is reporting that Truss just sacked the chief whip in the lobby, hence the reaction, 'I am no longer the chip whip'.


Incitatus time?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Cid said:


> Shame he doesn't know how to use the video function on his phone.


Still images can be judiciously selected, too much risk that a video might capture something he doesn't want to share.


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

So did the SNP only pull out of the vote when it stopped being a confidence vote? That would explain the kerfuffle over an easy government win.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> So did the SNP only pull out of the vote when it stopped being a confidence vote? That would explain the kerfuffle over an easy government win.


The SNP didn't pull out, loads of them in this list of who voted how: How did your MP vote on the fracking motion?


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

I had my booster today so I'm not sure if wierd hallucinations is a side effect, cos today is very odd.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

killer b said:


> The SNP didn't pull out, loads of them in this list of who voted how: How did your MP vote on the fracking motion?


So zero Tories voting for. Some rebellion.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

Message for the PM please go and see the King tomorrow and ask for an Election because this cant carry on


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2022)

Honestly you look away from the news for two hours and somehow half the government has quit, been fired or jumped into the Thames in despair; and everyone left standing is one spilled pint away from a mass brawl.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> I had my booster today so I'm not sure if wierd hallucinations is a side effect, cos today is very odd.



It been an weird day for the Government all round


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> So zero Tories voting for. Some rebellion.


Tbf, they were being kettled by their colleagues.


----------



## Cid (Oct 19, 2022)

On a quick scan something like 28 Labour MPs missed it.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 19, 2022)

Shapps trying to play down the chaos in west minister


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

Cid said:


> On a quick scan something like 28 Labour MPs missed it.


They have that pairing thing, don't they? some/most will be paired off?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Message for the PM please go and see the King tomorrow and ask for an Election because this cant carry on



Brenda gets 75 years of calm parliamentary waters* and poor Brian lasts barely a whole fortnight without a constitutional crisis.

*barring that one time her nonce uncle, nonce cousin and nonce father-in-law (who were all coincidentally the same person) tried to stage a coup against Harold Wilson.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Message for the PM please go and see the King tomorrow and ask for an Election because this cant carry on



TBF I wouldn't be that surprised if the Crown stepped in anyway - this can't be allowed to continue and it is extremely questionable whether she commands a majority of the Commons.  

The King could dismiss her, then appoint whoever from that lot he is advised could form a government.


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> So zero Tories voting for. Some rebellion.


got to wonder what all the fuss was about tbh


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> TBF I wouldn't be that surprised if the Crown stepped in anyway - this can't be allowed to continue and it is extremely questionable whether she commands a majority of the Commons.
> 
> The King could dismiss her, then appoint whoever from that lot he is advised could form a government.


I would be very surprised. Dangerous for a monarch, let alone a new monarch, to interfere in parliamentary business.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> It been an weird day for the Government all round


Frack Wednesday for the tories.


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> it is extremely questionable whether she commands a majority of the Commons.


the government just won a vote by 93


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Well in, Krishnan!!!


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I would be very surprised. Dangerous for a monarch, let alone a new monarch, to interfere in parliamentary business.


Yes, I was going to say that would provoke a constitutional crisis, but aren't we in one already?


----------



## Cid (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They have that pairing thing, don't they? some/most will be paired off?



Don't think they usually use that in important votes?


----------



## Cloo (Oct 19, 2022)

Is there anything that could actually plausibly cause a general election now? Mass resignation of Tory MPs? (Highly unlikely) Could a no confidence vote do it?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

The constitution isn't worth the paper it's printed on.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 19, 2022)

Cid said:


> Don't think they usually use that in important votes?


Was the vote that important before it was deemed a 3 line whip earlier today? And then it wasn't...


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Is there anything that could actually plausibly cause a general election now? Mass resignation of Tory MPs? (Highly unlikely) Could a no confidence vote do it?


as has just been demonstrated, a no confidence vote would be handily won by the government


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Newspaper editors probably tearing their hair out trying to decide what to do with their front page.

Wouldn't be surprised if some just go with a blank space captioned with "You tell us!"


----------



## maomao (Oct 19, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> The constitution isn't worth the paper it's printed on.


And it's an unwritten constitution!


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

LOL. shitting it


----------



## Cid (Oct 19, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Was the vote that important before it was deemed a 3 line whip earlier today? And then it wasn't...



True, and didn't hear anything about labour whip. I suppose stuff like pairing isn't generally last minute.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 19, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Is there anything that could actually plausibly cause a general election now? Mass resignation of Tory MPs? (Highly unlikely) Could a no confidence vote do it?



My understanding is that either the PM of the day can call an early general election if they feel so inclined, or they would have to lose a (parliamentary) confidence vote.   That would require a fair number of tory MP's to vote for it (which would almost certainly mean they would be thrown out of the party before the election) which i can't really see happening...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> TBF I wouldn't be that surprised if the Crown stepped in anyway - this can't be allowed to continue and it is extremely questionable whether she commands a majority of the Commons.
> 
> The King could dismiss her, then appoint whoever from that lot he is advised could form a government.


It's possible he might think "y'know what, fuck it" and attend COP27 after all.

The fuck is Truss going to do about it at this stage?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 19, 2022)

With the collapse of the global economy and WW3 on the horizon mabes the Tories are just doing all this daft stuff so they don't have to be in charge anymore and subsequently not responsible for the end of the world. 
I mean let's face it who wants to be anything other than high when it all goes to shit.


----------



## agricola (Oct 19, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I would be very surprised. Dangerous for a monarch, let alone a new monarch, to interfere in parliamentary business.



It has happened before (admittedly not for nearly 200 years), and whilst he'd no doubt be criticized for interfering in the affairs of Parliament this is fundamentally an issue of who runs his government.  What we are seeing now has very few, if any, precedents and there is no indication that she is willing to accept reality.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


> LOL. shitting it



"Oh, how very strange, I swear I scanned my Oyster at the station. Is there a possibility, perchance, that the machine malfunctioned in some silent way? What a truly unfortunate and regrettable business..."


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

maomao said:


> And it's an unwritten constitution!




Yes, that's why.

We literally operate on vibes and cos the government says so


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

The BBC reporter just now has they are trying to info from Downing street but ho response


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> The BBC reporter just now has they are trying to info from Downing street but ho response



I can hazard a guess.

"Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck _ad infinitum_..."


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Are we at 'Pot Noodle and a Wank' time yet?


----------



## Raheem (Oct 19, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Are we at 'Pot Noodle and a Wank' time yet?


No time like the present.


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

agricola said:


> It has happened before (admittedly not for nearly 200 years), and whilst he'd no doubt be criticized for interfering in the affairs of Parliament this is fundamentally an issue of who runs his government.  What we are seeing now has very few, if any, precedents and there is no indication that she is willing to accept reality.


the reality is that they'll carp and moan, but they'll vote for the government's  business. zero tory MPs voted against the party tonight. the king will not get involved.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

We've all turned the lights off and tried to pretend we're not in when the BBC folks come knockin'.


----------



## tommers (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

Raheem said:


> No time like the present.


Well I'm at work, sat in the managers office watching Amazon Prime, so probably not.


----------



## BassJunkie (Oct 19, 2022)

This season of The UK has jumped the shark.


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 19, 2022)

Imagine if the King did get involved.He would be carried shoulder high through the streets and all that stuff about Diane expunged from the history books.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 19, 2022)

But they were wrong


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 19, 2022)

Talentless colleagues


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

Tory Mp at the centre of bully claims in the lobbies has said he was not manhandled


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tory Mp at the centre of bully claims in the lobbies has said he was not manhandled


"...this was confirmed by two very large colleagues on either side of him, supporting him with very strong grips on each shoulder"


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tory Mp at the centre of bully claims in the lobbies has said he was not manhandled


" I foolishly slipped on the wet floor/walked into a door"


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Talentless colleagues



the best bit is when he speculates that some of his colleagues may soon be homeless


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2022)

So just got up from my early evening nana nap and it seems that out government now looks like this ..


----------



## tim (Oct 19, 2022)

It's like Dallas. Suella's walked out.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 19, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Well in, Krishnan!!!




Oops


----------



## Raheem (Oct 19, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Well I'm at work, sat in the managers office watching Amazon Prime, so probably not.


Ok, so you might not have easy access to a Pot Noodle, but all the same.


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Tory Mp at the centre of bully claims in the lobbies has said he was not manhandled


If I lived in the country still he'd be my local MP and already seen sympathetic posts on Facebook from people who don't support the Tories about the bullying. Glad he's denied it so they can go back to hating him for a) being one of Liz Truss' biggest cheerleaders during her campaign and b) going against local wishes by voting for fracking (he was previously employed by Shell and has been paid by them for lobbying services)


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Oops




“I’m sorry, you cunt”


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2022)

but don't worry folks. The natural party of government will soon replace liz truss with a grown up sensible tory to administer austerity round two and they will all unite behind sunak/hunt/mourdant. 

Alternatively the shit show will carry on and on. Good job there isn't like a whole load of really serious stuff that the government needs to urgently deal with. 
Popular  pressure for an election will grow and grow. Quite possibly with much of the media and the likes of the CBI and the corporates joining in because they really dont like having a constant state of political chaos . Which is going to be ... interesting.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 19, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> “I’m sorry, you cunt”


Yeah, I'm sorry for actually saying what you wondered if you heard me say


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

A handy review, and particularly enjoyed the characterisation of Miliband's contributions


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Oops



Lot of love in the comments, though!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

They're now _actively hoping_ their MPs u-turn 



In the comments there's questions as to whether Peston meant "no longer a confidence vote". Probably some Tory MPs among them, still trying to figure out what exactly they voted for.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 19, 2022)

Careless Tories is the best..


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

Twitter random made me laugh...


----------



## Humberto (Oct 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> but don't worry folks. The natural party of government will soon replace liz truss with a grown up sensible tory to administer austerity round two and they will all unite behind sunak/hunt/mourdant.
> 
> Alternatively the shit show will carry on and on. Good job there isn't like a whole load of really serious stuff that the government needs to urgently deal with.
> Popular  pressure for an election will grow and grow. Quite possibly with much of the media and the likes of the CBI and the corporates joining in because they really dont like having a constant state of political chaos . Which is going to be ... interesting.


Yep. And it's going to further ruin public services and widen inequality.

They're all a load of dysfunctional, selfish cunts. They aren't serving the public, they are hurting it. I'll leave it there though except to say they will in the end all cover each others' arses first and last.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> A handy review, and particularly enjoyed the characterisation of Miliband's contributions


archived & Thread Reader


----------



## sleaterkinney (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> A handy review, and particularly enjoyed the characterisation of Miliband's contributions



From the comments:


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

The nut jobs have given up on her now.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

Always a tweet...


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> The nut jobs have given up on her now.



It's been pointed out that she has succeeded in uniting the Tory party.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> It's been pointed out that she has succeeded in uniting the Tory party.


In one sense, maybe...but she's just re-ignited the tory wars.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

"We go now to the offices of the 1922 Committee..."


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> In one sense, maybe...but she's just re-ignited the tory wars.


It's the only sense in the Tory party.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

This is, far as I can tell, their genuine account


----------



## story (Oct 19, 2022)

story said:


> Never mind. Catch up on the commentary and then watch it later on YouTube at increased speed, skip through the nonsense and slow it down to see the bits that you want to form your own opinion on. Saves a lot of time to do the news this way, I find.
> 
> 
> ETA
> I also consume a lot of R4 news on catch up as soon as it’s available that way. It doesn’t put me more than about 40 minutes behind any news, which is fairly meaningless unless it’s a breaking story. I can skip the sports and weather, go back and check details for city news (cos I’m a dunce about most of that and need to listen twice sometimes) etc.




This isn’t working right now.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 19, 2022)

There country has gone to shit, people will die this winter because of a crass and morally contemptible Government that has grown fat off its own arrogance, and there is every chance I won't be able to pay my mortgage past April....

....BUT some of this is some of the funniest shit I think have ever seen - not just in Politics.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

Torygraph reckons it's tomorrow, then...


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

steveo87 said:


>


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

story said:


> This isn’t working right now.


The Shipping Forecast has been repurposed to simply keep track of which MP has been either appointed or left which ministerial position.


----------



## bimble (Oct 19, 2022)

So it was just monumentally stupid, forcing all the MPs to vote for fracking, which nobody wants and isn’t going to happen anyway.
All it achieved was making them hate her a bit more. That makes more sense than it being a cunning plan I get it now


----------



## brogdale (Oct 19, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



So the chaos is over, then?


----------



## Thesaint (Oct 19, 2022)

Lurdan said:


>


Being any sort of political satirist right now must so difficult 😡. You couldn't make half this stuff up.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Torygraph reckons it's tomorrow, then...



This time tomorrow half of 'em will be in the cabinet!


----------



## Supine (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> So it was just monumentally stupid, forcing all the MPs to vote for fracking, which nobody wants and isn’t going to happen anyway.
> All it achieved was making them hate her a bit more. That makes more sense than it being a cunning plan I get it now



It was a cunning plan from labour. They bought it forward and forced the conservatives to vote on it. Basically igniting the fuse and walking away


----------



## story (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> This time tomorrow half of 'em will be in the cabinet!


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 19, 2022)

bimble said:


> So it was just monumentally stupid, forcing all the MPs to vote for fracking, which nobody wants and isn’t going to happen anyway.
> All it achieved was making them hate her a bit more. That makes more sense than it being a cunning plan I get it now


Not astute is our liz.


----------



## Sue (Oct 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> So the chaos is over, then?


Tomorrow is another day.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Torygraph reckons it's tomorrow, then...





No rush like, take your time


----------



## xenon (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Message for the PM please go and see the King tomorrow and ask for an Election because this cant carry on



It can though. Ridiculous as it all is, it carries on until they force her out. Which they won't do whilst they can't agree on a replacement.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

Someone needs to use this loop in a gabba track


----------



## xenon (Oct 19, 2022)

oh nos another 1922 meeting. More waffle, I'm furious, bring back Borris and this can't go ons.

Same time next week, yeah?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Someone needs to use this loop in a gabba track



"By the time I finish this sentence, it will probably already be out of date"


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 19, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> This isn't saying much, but I honestly can't even remember who the Deputy PM currently is
> 
> <edit: oh aye, it's Coffey >


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

ITV News


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

The BBC had trouble fitting all the events into the allotted slot on the news.

Chris Mason was going on about whether Truss can even last till the end of the week. And the state broadcaster, for the sake of its own credibility, suggested that we dont have a functioning government.

Their live updates page also has:



> Tory MPs have been reacting to comments from Charles Walker, who said there is "no coming back" for the party after a chaotic vote on fracking tonight.
> 
> In an interview with BBC News, a visibly emotional Walker said he was livid and out of patience with his party.
> 
> ...



I left out Dorries take on that because her 'still bitter about the fall of Johnson' angle is already well known.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)

It's over


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Oct 19, 2022)

steveseagull said:


>



They must have someone in mind unless they put the Deputy PM in as caretaker then Election


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> They must have someone in mind unless they put the Deputy PM in as caretaker then Election


When it comes to places to put therese coffey, in charge is the last place you'd want her


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

Probably not too much time left to savour this particular moment so here is the slightly extended edition of Walkers interview.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

lol.



> Sir Roger Gale told PA News that the chaos caused by confusion over this evening fracking bill had been a "storm in a teacup" and praised the appointment of Grant Shapps as home secretary.
> 
> "On balance, at the end of today I would say, in a peculiar way - and it is peculiar - Truss might come out of it stronger. I may be completely wrong and out of touch," Sir Roger said.







__





						Loading…
					





					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

Is that the one where he calls out those who put Truss in No. 10? i.e., the members of his own party?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> Probably not too much time left to savour this particular moment so here is the slightly extended edition of Walkers interview.




Well the 'confidence' thing is going well.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2022)

So - looks like they may be about to kick her out without a ready made replacement. Braverman positioning herself as the standard bearer of the tory far right -  who will see the a "caretaker" government by the likes of Sunack, Hunt, Mourdant et al as a coup by the tory non swivel eyed faction - so may well not go along with it. So then what? another leadership election with Cruella winning?


----------



## xenon (Oct 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> So - looks like they may be about to kick her out without a ready made replacement. Braverman positioning herself as the standard bearer of the tory far right -  who will see the a "caretaker" government by the likes of Sunack, Hunt, Mourdant et al as a coup by the tory non swivel eyed faction - so may well not go along with it. So then what? another leadership election with Cruella winning?



If they put another lunatic in charge, they're dead... Deader. They can't go on the tax cut thing, so it will be anti union, anti wage rises, anti imigrants, etc. Whilst everyone gets poorer. They've fucked off the Police, nurses, doctors, lawyers, transport workers, teachers etc... Bribing the electorate at the last minute I don't think will work in 24.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> So - looks like they may be about to kick her out without a ready made replacement. Braverman positioning herself as the standard bearer of the tory far right -  who will see the a "caretaker" government by the likes of Sunack, Hunt, Mourdant et al as a coup by the tory non swivel eyed faction - so may well not go along with it. So then what? another leadership election with Cruella winning?


I dont think the headbangers get another shot at the leadership now, plus Bravermans email rule breaking may effectively eliminate her from the running on this occasion.


----------



## SysOut (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> lol.
> 
> 
> > Sir Roger Gale told PA News that the chaos caused by confusion over this evening fracking bill had been a "storm in a teacup" and *praised the appointment of Grant Shapps as home secretary*.



Gale hasn't the best of references: Roger Gale - Wikipedia


> In July 2021, Gale was one of five Conservative MPs found by the Commons Select Committee on Standards to have breached the code of conduct by trying to influence a judge in the trial of former Conservative MP Charlie Elphicke, who was eventually found guilty of three counts of sexual assault and sentenced to two years in prison. Gale was one of three of the group who was also recommended for a one-day suspension by the committee.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> I dont think the headbangers get another shot at the leadership now, plus Bravermans email rule breaking may effectively eliminate her from the running on this occasion.


dunno - is there anything to stop them challenging a sunak coronation with their own candidate? they arent going to suddenly go quiet whatever happens. It doesnt look like the tory hierarchy  have a plan beyond - "get truss out now!"


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> dunno - is there anything to stop them challenging a sunak coronation with their own candidate? they arent going to suddenly go quiet whatever happens. It doesnt look like the tory hierarchy  have a plan beyond - "get truss out now!"


I'll let the tory party worry about the details of how they move on to the next leader. The headbangers making a lot of noise doesnt change my opinion of the sort of stability leader it will be, and it will take some very dramatic twists before I could begin to imaging the ERG wing of the party snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Especially as defeat has gone well beyond the jaws, they'd have to pluck victory from the intestines of doom.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> I'll let the tory party worry about the details of how they move on to the next leader. The headbangers making a lot of noise doesnt change my opinion of the sort of stability leader it will be, and it will take some very dramatic twists before I could begin to imaging the ERG wing of the party snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.


but if its the membership who get to decide again ....


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

It wont be the membership that gets to decide again. And if somehow it was, things will be setup not to allow the wrong candidate to be an option.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

eg they rig it so that when it comes down to the last 2 candidates after MP voting rounds, the one with less votes simply drops out at that stage.

Thats one mechanism anyway. The one that worked for Theresa May vs Leadsom.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> It wont be the membership that gets to decide again. And if somehow it was, things will be setup not to allow the wrong candidate to be an option.


This probably hasn't improved their feelings towards democracy, that's for sure.


----------



## xenon (Oct 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> but if its the membership who get to decide again ....



Heh. No way they'll let that happen this time. Which is why I keep saying Truss is safe for now til they agree on a unity candidate. That's the problem for the Tories as pointed out on here by someone else the other day. The party is not a cohesive entaty. Fine when things are going well, but now, rats in a sack...


----------



## moochedit (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> eg they rig it so that when it comes down to the last 2 candidates after MP voting rounds, the one with less votes simply drops out at that stage.
> 
> Thats one mechanism anyway. The one that worked for Theresa May vs Leadsom.


Only works if the one with less votes keeps their promise.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 19, 2022)

Even that abject prick Andrew Pierce from the Daily Heil is laying into them on Sky news.


----------



## iona (Oct 19, 2022)

I'm only on page 131 (no spoilers please!) but reading this thread from a different timezone is wild right now. No need to keep hitting refresh for the latest chaos, just waking up every morning to 10+ pages of shit that's happened between about midday to 9pm UK time. It's like waiting till the end of a series so you can binge the whole thing at once


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> eg they rig it so that when it comes down to the last 2 candidates after MP voting rounds, the one with less votes simply drops out at that stage.
> 
> Thats one mechanism anyway. The one that worked for Theresa May vs Leadsom.



They may well try that - but there are no guarantees it will work. Everyone is assuming that they will organise a coronation to avoid a leadership campaign - but the party is a total fucking mess who don't know what they are doing with nobody in charge and is split between multiple factions who all hate each other - so I don't think a coronation is a given at all. They are in panic mode and who know what the fuck will happen next.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> eg they rig it so that when it comes down to the last 2 candidates after MP voting rounds, the one with less votes simply drops out at that stage.


Fewer.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2022)

iona said:


> I'm only on page 131 (no spoilers please!) but reading this thread from a different timezone is wild right now. No need to keep hitting refresh for the latest chaos, just waking up every morning to 10+ pages of shit that's happened between about midday to 9pm UK time. It's like waiting till the end of a series so you can binge the whole thing at once



Today certainly reminded me of an end of season Twin Peaks episode where Lynch squeezed a large amount of shit hitting the fan all in one go for the season cliffhangers.

First episode of season 2:



> Lucy, you better bring Agent Cooper up-to-date.
> 
> Leo Johnson was shot. Jacques Renault was strangled. The mill burned. Shelly and Pete got smoke inhalation. Catherine and Josie are missing. Nadine is in a coma from taking sleeping pills.
> 
> ...


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

The lettuce may win!


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 19, 2022)

xenon said:


> Heh. No way they'll let that happen this time. Which is why I keep saying Truss is safe for now til they agree on a unity candidate. That's the problem for the Tories as pointed out on here by someone else the other day. The party is not a cohesive entaty. Fine when things are going well, but now, rats in a sack...



Rats are apparently better at establishing leaders than the other vermin.

_Being the alpha rat is all about attitude. Alphas are not always the largest rat in the colony. It is how they control the group that matters. Alphas maintain order by stopping aggression within a colony ... It is a misunderstood notion that rat colonies are constantly fighting within their ranks. Typically, healthy colonies get along well and work with the leader to maintain order._


----------



## Wilf (Oct 19, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> They may well try that - but there are no guarantees it will work. Everyone is assuming that they will organise a coronation to avoid a leadership campaign - but the party is a total fucking mess who don't know what they are doing with nobody in charge and is split between multiple factions who all hate each other - so I don't think a coronation is a given at all. They are in panic mode and who know what the fuck will happen next.


I suppose the only parameters are that it won't be a loon and that the next one will be about orthodoxy and cuts.  Though with cuts and people starving this winter, I'm not sure what the electoral pitch will be in 2 years.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 19, 2022)

Desperate shit


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> They may well try that - but there are no guarantees it will work. Everyone is assuming that they will organise a coronation to avoid a leadership campaign - but the party is a total fucking mess who don't know what they are doing with nobody in charge and is split between multiple factions who all hate each other - so I don't think a coronation is a given at all. They are in panic mode and who know what the fuck will happen next.


That assumption is based on the idea that if they are going to do anything at all, it will be an emergency damage limitation stabilising retreat to something approaching the tory centre, with more than one eye on how things look not just to the electorate but also as part of the ongoing attempts to placate the markets.

The version of 'unity' that this entails is very far from a perfect, comprehensive version of party unity. Its a botched together version of unity. We already saw one form of this in the last few days, until things exploded again today. It had absurd features because that version still had Truss as nominally in charge. The next version will be absurd in somewhat different ways, but there is a fair chance of them pulling it off. It will be putting a brave face on the fact the party has blown its own head off. Its not easy to have a face of when you've blown your head off, let alone a brave one, but they will probably go through these motions anyway.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

The fucking Suns front page:


----------



## Raheem (Oct 20, 2022)

Do what you like to the constituents, never annoy the MPs.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 20, 2022)

It really is quite remarkable how they have taken a vote they won comfortably and turned it into a massive cluster fuck. That takes real skill


----------



## MrSki (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Oops


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> The fucking Suns front page:
> 
> View attachment 347914


The bit you missed says the PM has lost authority. (Don’t buy the Sun, folks).  She can’t survive that.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

If they dont manage to pull off the desperate unity reboot then they will stumble into a general election instead.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 20, 2022)

My internet is down so I’m missing most of this, but trying to drag MPs through the right door is some Trumpian shit


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

I don't see how they can let her stay, despite having no one to replace her. This chaos will apparently continue unabated, and even if they get exhausted and it simmers down, no one in office now has any authority at all, either in parliament or in the country.

And Starmer’s frankly pathetic show at pmqs today amounts to an own goal.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

Meanwhile, elsewhere, really significant stuff is happening and being eclipsed by this chimpanzee’s tea party.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> Christ. The word 'unprecedented' is becoming routine and redundant.
> 
> When do we get to see a televised fist-fight in the Chamber?




This was prescient, eh.
Coffey in the blue corner...


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

Guest opinion piece in the New York Times:

"They Believed in Markets, but the Markets Did Not Believe in Them"



			archive.ph
		


Includes:



> There’s something tragicomic, if not tragic, about capitalist revolutionaries Ms. Truss and Mr. Kwarteng laid low by the mechanisms of capitalism itself. Ms. Truss and Mr. Kwarteng may be the last of the Thatcherites, defeated by the very system they believed they were acting in fidelity to.





> They followed their idol not only in her antagonism to organized labor but also in her less-known fascination with Asian capitalism. In 2012’s “Britannia Unchained,” a book co-written by the group that remains a Rosetta Stone for the policy surprises of the last month, they slammed the Britons for their eroded work ethic and “culture of excuses” and the “cosseted” public sector unions. They praised China, South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong. “The average Singaporean works two hours and 20 minutes a day longer than the average Brit,” they observed — as if longer working days were something to aspire to. “Britannia Unchained” expressed a desire to go back to the future by restoring Victorian values of hard work, self-improvement and bootstrapping.





> The mini-budget that ended Mr. Kwarteng’s tenure as chancellor of the Exchequer and crashed the pound can be seen as a utopian gesture, an act of voluntarism designed to jolt the British people out of their post-pandemic torpor through its very boldness. Ms. Truss and Mr. Kwarteng seemed to have believed that by patching together all of the most radical policies of Thatcherism (while conveniently dropping the need for spending cuts), they would be incanting a kind of magic spell, an “Open sesame” for “global Britain.” This was their Reagan moment, their moment when, as their favorite metaphors put it, a primordial repressed force would be “unchained,” “unleashed” or “unshackled.”
> 
> But as a leap of faith, it broke the diver’s neck.





> The outcome resulted in a divergence between the incentives of existing capitalism and the fairy tale of liberal utopia. Just as Brexiteers had discovered after the departure of the country from the European Union that the City of London actually didn’t want to be freed of the regulations that they were promising, the money markets were not waiting for an act of faith in Laffer Curve fundamentalism after all. This was “Reaganism without the dollar.” Without the confidence afforded to the global reserve currency, the pound went into free fall.


----------



## toblerone3 (Oct 20, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> But they were wrong


 That sounds like something out of an Adam Curtis documentary.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Nonsense is still unravelling at 1:30am


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Nonsense is still unravelling at 1:30am



So we can the likes of Johnson and May losing the whip then?


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> So we can the likes of Johnson and May losing the whip then?



That’d be one way to prevent their return.


----------



## Weller (Oct 20, 2022)

Knotted said:


> Why is urban75 collectively watching PMQ's???? This is weirder than anything Truss has done.
> 
> View attachment 347843



I stopped watching until recently  and  if they were not doing such damage it has been fun watching this shiftiest lot ever kill their party for a decade or more hopefully 
I dont think we have seen how weird and shit she is or this lot really are yet


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 20, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> My internet is down so I’m missing most of this, but trying to drag MPs through the right door is some Trumpian shit


I wouldn't believe that duplicitous shit Bryant anymore than I would a Tory MP.


----------



## tim (Oct 20, 2022)

I just dreamt that we were having a coup d'etat and that Truss was very drunk and smashing her way through glass doors. I had to check on line that it wasn't true

Sweet dreams are made of this!

I'm not convinced that the "King" won't be in air when I wake up flanked by men in uniform, George Osborne and Tony Blair.


----------



## Voley (Oct 20, 2022)

A quick browse of Twitter this morning suggests that MP's that didn't vote with the government last night will be subject to proportionate disciplinary action, unless they've got a reasonable excuse. MP's that abstained are said to include the current PM, and the two previous PM's.

Could be interesting. I'm assuming Liz Truss' 'reasonable excuse' will be she was trying to stop the Chief Whip resigning at the time. 

Unfortunately I've got a busy day at work ahead of me today or it'd be news and 🍿 all the way.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Start the day as you mean to go on 😂


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 20, 2022)

Voley said:


> A quick browse of Twitter this morning suggests that MP's that didn't vote with the government last night will be subject to proportionate disciplinary action, unless they've got a reasonable excuse. MP's that abstained are said to include the current PM, and the two previous PM's.
> 
> Could be interesting. I'm assuming Liz Truss' 'reasonable excuse' will be she was trying to stop the Chief Whip resigning at the time.
> 
> Unfortunately I've got a busy day at work ahead of me today or it'd be news and 🍿 all the way.


She voted 'no'...





__





						Loading…
					





					votes.parliament.uk


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The adult version of 'are we there yet?' is now 'has she gone yet?'



Has she gone ?


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 20, 2022)

It seems May and Johnson were paired. many many were not though


----------



## Supine (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Has she gone ?



I’m going to be wondering this all day at work. I’m thinking less than 50:50.


----------



## Voley (Oct 20, 2022)

CyberRose said:


> She voted 'no'...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, disappointing. I was hoping for an epic wriggle from them over that. 

I will still have one eye on the news today though. I made a bet with a mate at work at how long she might last earlier this week.  He said end of the month, I said Xmas. I think he's winning a fiver tbh.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

All the front pages today are grim reading for Truss, esp. this from what is basically the party members' newsletter.



This from the top strap on the 'i' amused me.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 20, 2022)

Voley said:


> Ah, disappointing. I was hoping for an epic wriggle from them over that.
> 
> I will still have one eye on the news today though. I made a bet with a mate at work at how long she might last earlier this week.  He said end of the month, I said Xmas. I think he's winning a fiver tbh.



I gave her nine months when she first got in. Pretty sure I've lost that one, wasn't even nine weeks.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

If both the Telegraph and Mail say she must go, it'll all be over. I'm not inclined to look at either though


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

The one thing that the Mail is good for is Tory gossip. Definitely worth a read today.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Nonsense is still unravelling at 1:30am



This sort of move is _exactly _the sort of reason why Twitter has been so reluctant to give us an Edit button.

Except in this case it's not a typo in a tweet about cats, but, y'know, the government of a country


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 20, 2022)

maomao said:


> The one thing that the Mail is good for is Tory gossip. Definitely worth a read today.


And this is something you don't see there every day:


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Nonsense is still unravelling at 1:30am



"Oh, yes it was!"

"Oh, no it wasn't!"

Panto season has started early this year


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 20, 2022)

andysays said:


> "Oh, yes it was!"
> 
> "Oh, no it wasn't!"
> 
> Panto season has started early this year


Oh no it hasn't.


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

Kevbad the Bad said:


> Oh no it hasn't.


Truss's future is definitely behind her though.


----------



## Cid (Oct 20, 2022)

BBC headlines summary is quite useful for scanning the mood...









						Newspaper headlines: 'Truss on the brink' and 'chaos' of Braverman exit
					

Suella Braverman's resignation during a chaotic day at Westminster leads most of the papers.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Start the day as you mean to go on 😂



Surely a desperate attempt to get some of the letters on Graham Brady’s desk ruled invalid. Maybe they realised at that late hour that she wouldn’t make it through today if they didn’t pull this trick?


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Cid (Oct 20, 2022)

Needless to say the picture does not look particularly rosy for Truss (re headlines).


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Supine said:


> It was a cunning plan from labour. They bought it forward and forced the conservatives to vote on it. Basically igniting the fuse and walking away


ye but nobody forced them to make it a 3 line whip 'confidence in Truss' vote, with people bundling eachother swearing & crying into the lobbies that was entirely their own choice wasn't it.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Cid said:


> Needless to say the picture does not look particularly rosy for Truss (re headlines).


Let’s hope she clings on; this is too good to end so soon


----------



## Chairman Meow (Oct 20, 2022)

I must say I'm very much enjoying watching all of this from afar.  Although I daresay I wouldn't be quite so amused by watching the UK go down in flames if I was still living there. I mean its bloody great watching the Tories screw up quite so magnificently, but fucking hell what a mess!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

Truss probably thinks that insisting its a confidence vote - and threatening the rebel mps - is her being a strong, ruthless leader in the maggie mold and it will bring the party to heel. Shes in the cabinet room shouting demented instructions to her press secretary. Its like _Downfall_ meets an episode of _the young ones. _Presumably the next stage is poisoning Larry the Cat and shooting herself in the head - but the bullet misses her brain and takes out Teresa Coffey instead.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 20, 2022)

Former PM’s can claim 100k or so for non specific shite.it’s creating a whole new class of well paid parasites


----------



## Kevbad the Bad (Oct 20, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Former PM’s can claim 100k or so for non specific shite.it’s creating a whole new class of well paid parasites


I was wondering about that. If you've been a minister for a day or two can you claim bigger expenses? Why else would you go for such a job right now?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 20, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Former PM’s can claim 100k or so for non specific shite.it’s creating a whole new class of well paid parasites


Was thinking earlier, regardless of however short her time as PM turns out to be, she'll still benefit from most* of the post-PM perks. She'll get invited to Charlie's funeral, she'll get offers on the speaker circuit, I'm sure there's other crap.

Really takes the shine off 




*fair to say that there will be _ some_ impact on what offers she gets from how she's done in the post...


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> View attachment 347923


soon to be 3 PMs


----------



## Supine (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> ye but nobody forced them to make it a 3 line whip 'confidence in Truss' vote, with people bundling eachother swearing & crying into the lobbies that was entirely their own choice wasn't it.



The plan was to run attack ads against anyone who voted for it. It’s safe to say it worked out a whole lot better than that


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 20, 2022)

Question: what authority do either the Climaye Secretary or the Transport Secretary have to determine whether a vote is or isn't a confidence vote?



At this point it feels like it's just the blue dress all over again.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

I _think_ the overnight text from downing street suggests the rebels will be dealt as they would be for breaking a three line whip, not a confidence vote.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> soon to be 3 PMs


And maybe three monarchs


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Start the day as you mean to go on 😂



Nothing says calm and competent and not at all pissed like a 1.33am text.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

so it now a confidence vote because they won


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

Christ, good work, Peter Macdiarmid/LNP, for this photo



Seriously, what kind of deranged narcissist would you have to be to feel like this face says she feels, and still be trying to hang on to the job making you feel like that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Christ, good work, Peter Macdiarmid/LNP, for this photo
> 
> View attachment 347932
> 
> Seriously, what kind of deranged narcissist would you have to be to feel like this face says she feels, and still be trying to hang on to the job making you feel like that?


She's morphing into Theresa may


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Christ, good work, Peter Macdiarmid/LNP, for this photo
> 
> View attachment 347932
> 
> Seriously, what kind of deranged narcissist would you have to be to feel like this face says she feels, and still be trying to hang on to the job making you feel like that?




a tory minister


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> a tory minister



Yeah, my question was kind of rhetorical


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Was thinking earlier, regardless of however short her time as PM turns out to be, she'll still benefit from most* of the post-PM perks. She'll get invited to Charlie's funeral, she'll get offers on the speaker circuit, I'm sure there's other crap.
> 
> Really takes the shine off
> 
> ...


I think she's blown any chance of a post-PM career as a Thatcher impersonator though


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> so it now a confidence vote because they won


I mean, in one sense that feels pretty consistent in politics.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

The whips have everything under control


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

andysays said:


> I think she's blown any chance of a post-PM career as a Thatcher impersonator though



In the last few photos I've seen, including the one I've just posted, she's starting to look like she's wearing her own face as a dead skin mask.

At this point, if it turns out she's actually Zombie Thatcher doing a stint as a Liz Truss impersonator, it'll only be partially surprising.


----------



## Cid (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Was thinking earlier, regardless of however short her time as PM turns out to be, she'll still benefit from most* of the post-PM perks. She'll get invited to Charlie's funeral, she'll get offers on the speaker circuit, I'm sure there's other crap.
> 
> Really takes the shine off
> 
> ...



I mean... Yes. But on whoever's agency she signs up for, her pricing is going to end up amusingly low. Imagine there'll be Milibands above her. Fucking Hunt and Mordaunt have it made though - all the 3 letter institutions will welcome them with open arms, and the anecdotes they must have accrued over a few short days will be told in sweaty ballrooms and conference halls across the nation for years to come


----------



## gosub (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Question: what authority do either the Climaye Secretary or the Transport Secretary have to determine whether a vote is or isn't a confidence vote?
> 
> 
> 
> At this point it feels like it's just the blue dress all over again.



Makes sense the whip went then


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 20, 2022)

VOTE NOW: Do you have confidence in the Government?

Incase anyone is interested


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 20, 2022)

Hash4Cash said:


> VOTE NOW: Do you have confidence in the Government?
> 
> Incase anyone is interested


Why is there even a Yes option?


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 20, 2022)

So they can filter out the stupid people


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

Hash4Cash said:


> So they can filter out the stupid people


Conveniently it also acts as a Cabinet selection tool


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Why is there even a Yes option?



I voted yes for the lolz.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 20, 2022)

I wonder if the Tory party will split? I can’t help but feel that for it’s own survival it needs too.

The tories don’t have a Mitch McConnell type that will try to sabotage the crazy wing of the party for the good of the party. Without that type of person I can only see a split.


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I voted yes for the lolz.


Plus it could also be considered strategic.
It may take another couple of Tory PMs to finish digging the hole.


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 20, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


>




A dog turd on an escalator...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## MickiQ (Oct 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I voted yes for the lolz.


Your turn as Chancellor will be next week then


Hash4Cash said:


> A dog turd on an escalator...


Keeps moving and gets shit on lots of people


----------



## weepiper (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> The whips have everything under control
> 
> View attachment 347935



Might watch that tonight for some light relief


----------



## ska invita (Oct 20, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> In the last few photos I've seen, including the one I've just posted, she's starting to look like she's wearing her own face as a dead skin mask.
> 
> At this point, if it turns out she's actually Zombie Thatcher doing a stint as a Liz Truss impersonator, it'll only be partially surprising.


Having to do the Thatcher 4 hours sleep regime too


----------



## spitfire (Oct 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I voted yes for the lolz.





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> View attachment 347944



Oh Spy you absolute card you.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 20, 2022)

If she hangs around, she really risks transitioning from national joke to national pariah. The former isn’t fun to be but the latter can be really lastingly unpleasant.


----------



## Smangus (Oct 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> If she hangs around, she really risks transitioning from national joke to national pariah. The former isn’t fun to be but the latter can be really plainly unpleasant.


Here's hoping!


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 20, 2022)

think there might be a few sore heads this morning


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

She's already there. 
But it's inherently not a suprise - she had a reputation as a terrible public speaker, a shite boss, and an awful political tactician.

So it's not unexpected that's she's floundering, it's jut interesting that it happened so quickly.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Shapps to resign at 11.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 20, 2022)

Hi, Future Liz here, do you remember that time before the End Times when I was PM? Such a laugh! Anyway I'm off now to fight over food parcels in the wasteland, during the dark hours when the ultraviolet rays are weakest


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Hi, Future Liz here, do you remember that time before the End Times when I was PM? Such a laugh! Anyway I'm off now to fight over food parcels in the wasteland, during the dark hours when the ultraviolet rays are weakest


Bullshit.

You'd be the first to die.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Hi, Future Liz here, do you remember that time before the End Times when I was PM? Such a laugh! Anyway I'm off now to fight over food parcels in the wasteland, during the dark hours when the ultraviolet rays are weakest


f.l. wouldn't need to do that, there'll be no food parcels where she's going


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

That's the one whose job is mostly wearing a frilly shirt and carrying a massive golden mace around like its 1482.
If his investigation says that yes they physically shoved each about last night hopefully some antique punishment ensues.


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 20, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> You'd be the first to die.


And the first to be eaten.

Lucky bastard.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> View attachment 347947
> That's the one whose job is mostly wearing a frilly shirt and carrying a massive golden mace around like its 1482.
> If his investigation says that yes they physically shoved each about last night hopefully some antique punishment ensues.


Fuck's sake, can't even spell Sergeant properly, woke nonsense.

Hoyle is utterly useless. Which tory has persuaded him to do this?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> View attachment 347947
> That's the one whose job is mostly wearing a frilly shirt and carrying a massive golden mace around like its 1482.
> If his investigation says that yes they physically shoved each about last night* hopefully some antique punishment ensues.*



Something from the 18th century would be appropriate for Rees-Mogg.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 20, 2022)

A couple of years ago on here I commented that truss looked completely zombified , as if in the grip of some cult. She does need to get the first flight to Jonestown now. Fucking insanity


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 20, 2022)

Have we had this on the boards before ?

EDIT:- apparently yes - 









						Search results for query: Corinne Stockheath
					






					www.urban75.net
				






> After the departure of Suella Braverman after just 44 days in the job, the new Home Secretary is Grant Shapps who previously pretended to be a "multimillion dollar web marketer" called Michael Green in a dodgy get rich quick scheme flogging content scraping software designed to steal other people's creative content.
> Shapps/Green also used the false aliases Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox to recommend this content-stealing software.
> Eventually Google cottoned on to what Shapps/Green was up to and began blacklisting any website that used his content-stealing software to generate fake content, meaning if you fell for his dodgy 'get rich quick' scheme and actually paid him money, you'd end up with worse search engine rankings than if you'd done nothing.
> An individual like this is clearly unfit to be an MP, let alone the person responsible for overseeing law and order in the UK.
> ...











						Another Angry Voice
					

After the departure of Suella Braverman after just 44 days in the job, the new Home Secretary is Grant Shapps who previously pretended to be a "multimillion dollar web marketer" called Michael Green...




					www.facebook.com


----------



## gosub (Oct 20, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Hi, Future Liz here, do you remember that time before the End Times when I was PM? Such a laugh! Anyway I'm off now to fight over food parcels in the wasteland, during the dark hours when the ultraviolet rays are weakest


They have urban in End Times


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Was thinking earlier, regardless of however short her time as PM turns out to be, she'll still benefit from most* of the post-PM perks. She'll get invited to Charlie's funeral, she'll get offers on the speaker circuit, I'm sure there's other crap.



She'll get nowhere on the speaker circuit. You can maybe get away with being an absolutely terrible speaker but not with being a Massive Fucking Loser and national joke. That's not what they pay for at all. She might get to turn on her local Christmas lights if the cast of Emmerdale are all busy.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

flypanam said:


> I wonder if the Tory party will split? I can’t help but feel that for it’s own survival it needs too.
> 
> The tories don’t have a Mitch McConnell type that will try to sabotage the crazy wing of the party for the good of the party. Without that type of person I can only see a split.


I can't really see it, but Matt Godwin - who's much more plugged in to the semi-fascist end of the tory party than I am - suggests there's serious conversations along those lines happening right now in his latest mailout.

_...the implosion of the party is also more structural than strategic. Dominated from head to toe by leaders, donors and MPs who lean much further to the economic right and much further to the cultural left than many of its new voters, the Conservative Party has simply never known what to do with these voters or what to say to them. It thinks it can return to the 2010s while also holding a completely different electorate.

This, alongside general incompetence, is why it is crashing in the polls, averaging a lower level of support this week than it had in the immediate aftermath of the ERM crisis, on the eve of Tony Blair’s victory in 1997, during the depths of Partygate and amid the mass resignations that finally brought Boris Johnson down. Only once in modern history has the party been lower: the spring of 2019 when the resignation of Theresa May and the rise of the Brexit Party nearly completely wiped the party out.

And that is now why some MPs and renegade politicians sense a bigger opportunity. Tonight, on Whatsapp groups and late night calls, there is open talk about the possibility of a far more profound split within British conservatism, a reconfiguration of the right. Some say Suella and others should make it clear they will not tolerate ‘a coronation’, whereby the elected Liz Truss is replaced by the unelected Rishi Sunak and/or Penny Mordaunt. They should appeal direct to Conservative members and make it clear they will not stand for what they call “a coup”. Others want to go further.

A big risk facing the Conservative Party is not just that the turmoil of the Truss government continues but there begin to emerge serious calls for an entirely new vehicle for disgruntled conservatives who simply no longer believe that today’s Conservative Party is what its name implies. ‘We are going to get smashed at the next election anyway’, the thinking goes, ‘so why not try and reshape conservatism along the way’. One MP this evening points to the early 1990s in Canada where, under first-past-the-post, liberal progressive conservatives were suddenly swept aside by a new party that was far more in tune with the working-class, non-graduate and older people who were voting for it. Sounds familiar. Might something like that emerge in Britain in the weeks and months ahead? Maybe. _


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> She'll get nowhere on the speaker circuit. You can maybe get away with being an absolutely terrible speaker but not with being a Massive Fucking Loser and national joke. That's not what they pay for at all.


Nick Leeson did alright!









						Nick Leeson - Chartwell Speakers Bureau
					

As the rogue trader who brought down Barings Bank, Nick Leeson has an intriguing story to tell. Available as a speaker through Chartwell Speakers Bureau.




					www.chartwellspeakers.com


----------



## Supine (Oct 20, 2022)

gosub said:


> They have urban in End Times



A week next Tuesday


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

It’s hard to imagine what she might do after this, who would give her a job. 
Her only useful qualification is as a chartered accountant but who the fuck would employ her as that of all things now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> She'll get nowhere on the speaker circuit. You can maybe get away with being an absolutely terrible speaker but not with being a Massive Fucking Loser and national joke. That's not what they pay for at all. She might get to turn on her local Christmas lights if the cast of Emmerdale are all busy.


only if there's a chance that she'll receive a fatal electric shock


----------



## gosub (Oct 20, 2022)

Supine said:


> A week next Tuesday


oh don't, I had an ancestor who got executed for thinking like that...used to think it was for a little bit of regicide, but it was for that type of thinking


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> It’s hard to imagine what she might do after this, who would give her a job.
> Her only useful qualification is as a chartered accountant but who the fuck would employ her as that of all things now.


a chartered management accountant, which isn't useful for someone with no obvious talent for management


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 20, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> She'll get nowhere on the speaker circuit. You can maybe get away with being an absolutely terrible speaker but not with being a Massive Fucking Loser and national joke. That's not what they pay for at all. She might get to turn on her local Christmas lights if the cast of Emmerdale are all busy.




Cameron’s giving talks on leadership so always someone willingly buying a load of tosh


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Cameron’s giving talks on leadership so always someone willingly buying a load of tosh


yeh but his a how not to talk


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

There’s always Press TV.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

If she has any sense at all she’ll employ a really good comic speechwriter to take the piss out of herself as the worst PM ever. Ride the whole dry self-deprecating British sense of humour thing. Rich white men paying to get pissed and roar with laughter at a woman who failed spectacularly in public. She’ll make a fucking fortune.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> I can't really see it, but Matt Godwin - who's much more plugged in to the semi-fascist end of the tory party than I am - suggests there's serious conversations along those lines happening right now in his latest mailout.
> 
> _...the implosion of the party is also more structural than strategic. Dominated from head to toe by leaders, donors and MPs who lean much further to the economic right and much further to the cultural left than many of its new voters, the Conservative Party has simply never known what to do with these voters or what to say to them. It thinks it can return to the 2010s while also holding a completely different electorate.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I can imagine that if a split did happen the model will be Poland’s Law and Justice.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Was thinking earlier, regardless of however short her time as PM turns out to be, she'll still benefit from most* of the post-PM perks. She'll get invited to Charlie's funeral, she'll get offers on the speaker circuit, I'm sure there's other crap.
> 
> Really takes the shine off
> 
> ...



24hr security for the rest of her days, at public expense.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

This debacle is making me angry today. It’s entertaining and all that but it’s so fucking disrespectful. Voters, workers, people who are genuinely working hard and struggling to make ends meet, all having slog out another day while these fools and charlatans wobble around like toddlers refusing to have their nappies changed.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> There’s always Press TV.


Or children's TV.  I hear on the grapevine they're looking for a new Igglepiggle and they do have the same mouth.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> This debacle is making me angry today. It’s entertaining and all that but it’s so fucking disrespectful. Voters, workers, people who are genuinely working hard and struggling to make ends meet, all having slog out another day while these fools and charlatans wobble around like toddlers refusing to have their nappies changed.



Who will ever be able to forget it though?  Hopefully it will put a stake in the heart of the Tory party for a long, long time, the blue one that is...


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> This debacle is making me angry today. It’s entertaining and all that but it’s so fucking disrespectful. Voters, workers, people who are genuinely working hard and struggling to make ends meet, all having slog out another day while these fools and charlatans wobble around like toddlers refusing to have their nappies changed.


Why have you waited until today to realise that this is what our MPs are like?


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

And the utter contempt on show by people like A-M Trevelyan (interview on R4 Today this morning) talking as if it’s business as usual. The assumption that anyone will suck up her shit about how turbulence is normal, everything is okay. It’s outright fucking bald faced lying through their teeth in our face. Shameless. Now that Charles Walker has spoken with some degree of honesty about how bad it is, we know it’s  not beyond them to do so.  let's have some more of that,


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Why have you waited until today to realise that this is what our MPs are like?




Oh fuck off you know exactly what I mean.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> This debacle is making me angry today. It’s entertaining and all that but it’s so fucking disrespectful. Voters, workers, people who are genuinely working hard and struggling to make ends meet, all having slog out another day while these fools and charlatans wobble around like toddlers refusing to have their nappies changed.


yeah but its the Tories so thats true every day...lets count ourselves lucky theyre collapsing rather than being competent


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

ska invita said:


> yeah but its the Tories so thats true every day...lets count ourselves lucky theyre collapsing rather than being competent




I refer the baby eating anarchist to my earlier response


----------



## Leafster (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> And the utter contempt on show by people like A-M Trevelyan (interview on R4 Today this morning) talking as if it’s business as usual. The assumption that anyone will suck up her shit about how turbulence is normal, everything is okay. It’s outright fucking bald faced lying through their teeth in our face. Shameless. *Now that Charles Walker has spoken with some degree of honesty about how bad it is, we know it’s  not beyond them to do so.  let's have some more of that,*


The difference is, he's standing down at the next election so doesn't need to worry about the repercussions of speaking out.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

flypanam said:


> Interesting. I can imagine that if a split did happen the model will be Poland’s Law and Justice.


I expect it'll turn out to be wishful thinking on Goodwin's part tbh, but who knows?


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Who will ever be able to forget it though?  Hopefully it will put a stake in the heart of the Tory party for a long, long time, the blue one that is...


Everyone always forgets after a few weeks/months, it isnt that big a deal in the scheme of things


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

Do I really need to clarify this?
Obviously I know they’re a pile of pricks every single day. At least they usually have the common courtesy to go through the motions of adhering to protocol most of the time.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> 24hr security for the rest of her days, at public expense.



Even if she does a Harry and becomes a Louise Mensch type figure shilling for the Republicans in the US, unjustly forced out of office by the global liberal elites?


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 20, 2022)

gosub said:


> They have urban in End Times


Future Liz is a FIGHTER not a QU1TTR!!!

yet


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> If she has any sense at all she’ll employ a really good comic speechwriter to take the piss out of herself as the worst PM ever. Ride the whole dry self-deprecating British sense of humour thing. Rich white men paying to get pissed and roar with laughter at a woman who failed spectacularly in public. She’ll make a fucking fortune.



Great now I remember how May showed up dancing on stage at conference


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Even if she does a Harry and becomes a Louise Mensch type figure shilling for the Republicans in the US, unjustly forced out of office by the global liberal elites?


she only ever got anywhere because her husband manages the world's largest heavy metal act


----------



## Cid (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> It’s hard to imagine what she might do after this, who would give her a job.
> Her only useful qualification is as a chartered accountant but who the fuck would employ her as that of all things now.



I hear the Norwich rotary club will pay up to £500 for their gala dinner speaker; between that, the panto circuit and strictly/I'm a celebrity she should get by.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Cameron’s giving talks on leadership so always someone willingly buying a load of tosh


he actually got voted in. 

Liz isnt' even an articulate or entertaining speaker. There's no chance she'll do anything except write memoirs that would make Bouncing Back look like a bestseller. Even GBN would balk at hawking the Liz Truss Diaries


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

I for one would pay good money to watch her on Total Wipeout.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

Leafster said:


> The difference is, he's standing down at the next election so doesn't need to worry about the repercussions of speaking out.




Now that we have twitter etc and so forth it would be nice if he set a precedent for more though honesty wouldn’t it. 

They don’t care about us but they do care how they come across. Maybe this ripping away of the curtain will give some of them the balls to be more open, if not more honest.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> I expect it'll turn out to be wishful thinking on Goodwin's part tbh, but who knows?


Seems very unlikely however UKIP was successful on its own terms, and a fringe pressure group party would get funding in a way a left version would be skint


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Zahawi knows what's coming....


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

Tory MPs variously calling for Hunt, Sunak or Johnson (Dorries, obs) to be new PM. Hopefully a few more names will be mentioned across the day. They know what they don't want. They don't know what they want.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Zahawi knows what's coming....





Yeah, this is going to unleash an unholy mess.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Tory MPs variously calling for Hunt, Sunak or Johnson (Dorries, obs) to be new PM. Hopefully a few more names will be mentioned across the day. They know what they don't want. They don't know what they want.



This is also going to unleash...


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

In the last hour:


Hunt ally pitches for him to become PM
Dorries pitches for Johnson to become PM
Multiple MPs call for PM to resign
Suella Braverman refuses to do a resignation speech
Kemi Badenoch, for some reason, publicly says she won't be resigning

Lol.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Kemi Badenoch, for some reason, publicly says she won't be resigning


Last night one of the rumours swirling round the hacks was that she was on 'resignation watch' so I guess it's in response to that


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 20, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Cameron’s giving talks on leadership so always someone willingly buying a load of tosh



Well if she somehow hangs on as long as him I'll be wrong and she'll be quids in. I wouldn't be betting on it right now though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> I for one would pay good money to watch her on Total Wipeout.


She'd trip getting onto the set


----------



## izz (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> If she has any sense at all she’ll employ a really good comic speechwriter to take the piss out of herself as the worst PM ever. Ride the whole dry self-deprecating British sense of humour thing. Rich white men paying to get pissed and roar with laughter at a woman who failed spectacularly in public. She’ll make a fucking fortune.


And let's face it, she's got either incredibly poor perceptions or a skin like kevlar so the ridicule won't affect her too much


----------



## Supine (Oct 20, 2022)

Brady has entered Downing Street.

Wish i could be a fly on the wall


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

Supine said:


> Brady has entered Downing Street.
> 
> Wish i could be a fly on the wall



The grim reaper


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

flypanam said:


> Interesting. I can imagine that if a split did happen the model will be Poland’s Law and Justice.


Wonder if farage will start sniffing around?


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

This is it!


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Wonder if farage will start sniffing around?


Hes been 'teasing'/threatening a return to Poltics, plus (although this was one Twitter, so...) he's apparently just gone bankrupt, so may need the donations/bribes.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

Supine said:


> A week next Tuesday



I admire your optimism


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Supine said:


> Brady has entered Downing Street.
> 
> Wish i could be a fly on the wall


Getting interesting


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Apparently (from BBC) Truss requested the meeting.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> This is it!


It's never quite 'it' though is it? There'll be another attempted relaunch/round of sackings/attack on the unions... then she'll resign tomorrow.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Brady is there at the request of Truss, No, 10 has confirmed.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

"Please put me out of my misery"


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Brady is there at the request of Truss, No, 10 has confirmed.


If it's brandy and revolver time, she'll set the brandy on fire and shoot Brady.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Lord Buckethead should offer to step in and restore some semblance of seriousness.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 20, 2022)

Time for you to fuck off truss and take a gap year. You know, drinking, smoking, drugs , sleeping in late, all night parties, spin the bottle, mushrooms, litres of local raki at dawn. You know, stuff you never ever did. Ever


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

When your best guarantee is 12 days ...


----------



## emanymton (Oct 20, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Seems very unlikely however UKIP was successful on its own terms, and a fringe pressure group party would get funding in a way a left version would be skint


Yep, don't see a significant split, but a UKIP style rightwing pressure group that pulls a couple of MPs (until the loose their seats at the next election), maybe.

I still think Truss is thee for a bit as the right ring nut jobs won't agree to stand aside in the election for the next leader.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Yep, don't see a significant split, but a UKIP style rightwing pressure group that pulls a couple of MPs (until the loose their seats at the next election), maybe.
> 
> I still think Truss is thee for a bit as the right ring nut jobs won't agree to stand aside in the election for the next leader.


Could be a couple of MPs on resignation watch at the other end of the party after yesterday's events.  Libdems must be putting out feelers (yuk), though they themselves are doing badly in the polls.  Is it possible we might even get another Con > Lab defection?  If you are self interested sniveling shit who feels you are being bullied in your own party, the only way is kieth. 

I might add, I haven't got a clue if any tories really are thinking of jumping ship. But when you've got a sinking ship packed full of rats...


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> It's never quite 'it' though is it? There'll be another attempted relaunch/round of sackings/attack on the unions... then she'll resign tomorrow.


Don't get me wrong 'it' is just being replaced by another Tory, who'll probably be replaced by Starmer's weirdness.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Could be a couple of MPs on resignation watch at the other end of the party after yesterday's events.  Libdems must be putting out feelers (yuk), though they themselves are doing badly in the polls.  Is it possible we might even get another Con > Lab defection?  If you are self interested sniveling shit who feels you are being bullied in your own party, the only way is kieth.
> 
> I might add, I haven't got a clue if any tories really are thinking of jumping ship. But when you've got a sinking shit packed full of rats...


I now have the thought of lib dem feelers in my head. Thanks.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Therese coffey has arrived at Downing street


----------



## izz (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Therese coffey has arrived at Downing street


Interesting, Trussy could be stepping down for Tessy


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

So, if I've got this right, Downing St said truss will definitely be staying on beyond Oct 31st - whilst they seemed unaware she was meeting Brady, _in Downing St_.  That meeting still seems to be going on, so she could still be on her way out.


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Therese coffey has arrived at Downing street


She's deputy Prime Minister. I'd imagine that happens several times a week.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

I sit near some people who know about this shit who are having a bit of laugh that Truss has left the building. Out the back door.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

If that's true, then great. But on a human level. Well. I do feel a little sorry for her.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Therese coffey has arrived at Downing street


Wouldn't read too much into it - she's got some Amoxicillan she needs rid of.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Actually, I wonder if brady has now got the 50 odd letters in?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Well according to reports she asked for BRady to come to Downing street to gage the temperature of Tory MPs?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Well according to reports she asked for BRady to come to Downing street to gage the temperature of Tory MPs?




Fucking livid/10 and if she can’t work that out she’s even dimmer than expected


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

They seem to be setting up the equipment outside no 10


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> They seem to be setting up the equipment outside no 10


Gallows?


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> They seem to be setting up the equipment outside no 10


guillotine?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> They seem to be setting up the equipment outside no 10


Sky have said Downing Street have no plans to hold a news conference or reshuffle today?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sky have said Downing Street have no plans to hold a news conference or reshuffle today?


They have no plans full stop. It's fucked. Totally Trussed.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sky have said Downing Street have no plans to hold a news conference or reshuffle today?


That'll be the people who didn't even know that Brady was in the building when they denied a meeting with him would happen today?


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Sky have said Downing Street have no plans to hold a news conference or reshuffle today?


They've been wrong several times in the last few days though so who knows.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Come on Truss, tell Brady to fuck off and hang on in there!


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> That'll be the people who didn't even know that Brady was in the building when they denied a meeting with him would happen today?
> 
> View attachment 347969


'Look, he's here, that's him walking past over there!'
- No it isn't
'No honestly, I know him - that's him, he's even got his Graham Brady nametag on'
- No it isn't

Monty Python Argument Sketch, 2022 Version


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Well according to reports she asked for BRady to come to Downing street to gage the temperature of Tory MPs?




What is thicker than mince?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Looking good...


----------



## T & P (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> They've been wrong several times in the last few days though so who knows.


I think a lot of journalists got thinks wrong with this Government lately because No 10 her Government have been doing a lot of u turns


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

T & P said:


> View attachment 347973


Is that for real?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Looking good...
> 
> View attachment 347971


What a cunt.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

T & P said:


> View attachment 347973


I predict a riot, yah!


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Nobody respects Gove. 
Not even Gove.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Is that for real?


Clearly not Parliament.


----------



## T & P (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Is that for real?


Apparently so. 

And Jacob Rees-Cunt claimed several times there had not been a fracas of any kind...


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Mate, you're fucked.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

T & P said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> And Jacob Rees-Cunt claimed several times there had not been a fracas of any kind...


Its from that Bristol fracas a couple of years ago, not last night


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Never seen anything like this in politics, and if the speaker saw that photo the the shit would really hit the fan


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> There’s always Press TV.


No, the HR ayatollahs said she lacked credibility


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

Why is the self serving prick JRM still hanging onto Truss?

is it cos he’s hedging bets against the £ ? I can’t beleive he believes in her


----------



## weepiper (Oct 20, 2022)

She needs a meeting with Graham Brady to _keep in touch with the mood of the party_?


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

Chairman of the tories has arrived at number 10!


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

weepiper said:


> She needs a meeting with Graham Brady to _keep in touch with the mood of the party_?


Maybe the No10 Internet connection is down


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

T & P said:


> Apparently so.
> 
> And Jacob Rees-Cunt claimed several times there had not been a fracas of any kind...


He said he preferred the Latin _affluentes_.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

weepiper said:


> She needs a meeting with Graham Brady to _keep in touch with the mood of the party_?


_"Buoyant, Prime Minister." _


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Full crisis now Jake Berry has arrived


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 20, 2022)

At this point her only move is to resign while there's no plan in place to replace her without a vote. It's a fuck-everybody, take-your-ball-home move but it's pretty much the only one left on the table.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> Why is the self serving prick JRM still hanging onto Truss?
> 
> is it cos he’s hedging bets against the £ ? I can’t beleive he believes in her


Cos he's self-serving. He's unlikely to be in cabinet without a nutjob as PM. This shit's a big game for him, but it's much more fun to play when you are in the cabinet.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Car for the front door!


----------



## not a trot (Oct 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> What a cunt.



Really is fucking disturbing.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Somewhat hilariously, the BBC News feed seems to have a split screen of the front door and back door of No 10 going on while they bang on


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

weepiper said:


> She needs a meeting with Graham Brady to _keep in touch with the mood of the party_?


Apparently she doesn’t have Twitter.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Somewhat hilariously, the BBC News feed seems to have a split screen of the front door and back door of No 10 going on while they bang on


So have sky lol


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> So have sky lol








						BBC iPlayer - Watch BBC News live
					

Watch BBC News live on BBC iPlayer.




					www.bbc.co.uk
				




It's superb


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> If it's brandy and revolver time, she'll set the brandy on fire and shoot Brady.


Yeah but it's Truss so she'll miss and the bullet will ricochet off the walls before hitting her between the eyes.

I can't see her having much of a future on  the after-dinner circuit, If she leaves now she won't have even made 2 months (Without looking up I think the record for shortest PM is at least a year) and she will have been hounded out effectively from Day 1


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Yeah but it's Truss so she'll miss and the bullet will ricochet off the walls before hitting her between the eyes.
> 
> I can't see her having much of a future on  the after-dinner circuit, If she leaves now she won't have even made 2 months (Without looking up I think the record for shortest PM is at least a year) and she will have been hounded out effectively from Day 1











						List of prime ministers of the United Kingdom by length of tenure - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> View attachment 347974
> Mate, you're fucked.



Can she not hear them chanting? They're even drowning out Steve Bray.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

A statement will be held outside Number 10 at 1.30pm


----------



## Raheem (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> If it's brandy and revolver time, she'll set the brandy on fire and shoot Brady.


"I scribbled 'gun and brandy' on a post-it, and who did they send me instead?"


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Downing Street saying there'll be a statement at 1.30pm


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Downing Street saying there'll be a statement at 1.30pm


'Liz truss has left the building'


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

What's the betting she just wanks on about the energy price guarantee again?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> A statement will be held outside Number 10 at 1.30pm



Does Liz know?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2022)

.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> What's the betting she just wanks on about the energy price guarantee again?



Absolutely zero.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 20, 2022)

* prepares balloons *


----------



## Numbers (Oct 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> .


Nice to point out there's absolutely zero chance.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 20, 2022)

spitfire said:


> * prepares balloons *


Make it a big one!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

<grabs beer from fridge>

Let the entertainment begin.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

What's the lectern protocol? With the crest for government announcements, without for party announcements?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

Or is she going to declare war on Russia? Or France?


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Or is she going to declare war on Russia? Or France?


Scotland. Much easier target.


----------



## JimW (Oct 20, 2022)

Achieved growth for lectern toting businesses at least.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

maomao said:


> Scotland. Much easier target.


She'd miss and invade dogger bank by accident.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 20, 2022)

I'd love a good tussle with the French. It's been far too long that we've tolerated their cheeses coming over here


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

The King is off to a good start in his PM tally, he'll overtake his mum before he pops his clogs at this rate.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2022)

It's over.

Lettuce wins.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Resignation according to Beth Rigby


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 20, 2022)

Rigby confirms it’s a resignation


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 20, 2022)

For anyone who needs it:



just about to happen 🥳


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

ah bollocks i thought she'd hang on for at least a while longer. 
Nobody's even bothered to sweep the leaves off the front step of number 10 for this show.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2022)

And of course...


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> Oh fuck off you know exactly what I mean.


Easy cupcake. It was tongue in cheek. 

x


----------



## Numbers (Oct 20, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's over.
> 
> Lettuce wins.


We weren't planning on it but surely now need to have a bit of iceberg with our tea today.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

she humiliating herself in person or will she send an underling?


----------



## Indeliblelink (Oct 20, 2022)

Here we go.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

She's resigning.


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2022)

The important stream to be watching now


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

Here we go..


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Wow just wow


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 20, 2022)

Here we go


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2022)

Not even a ‘hello’


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Job done, she has resigned!


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

BOOM!


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> At this point her only move is to resign while there's no plan in place to replace her without a vote. It's a fuck-everybody, take-your-ball-home move but it's pretty much the only one left on the table.


Yeah, doing it this way pretty much ensures there has to be another full on leadership election, with potential for even more blue on blue action.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 20, 2022)

spitfire said:


> * prepares balloons *


Dude, where are you?


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

Leadership election within the next week?!


----------



## BCBlues (Oct 20, 2022)

Lettuce Rejoice


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 20, 2022)

I do hope the Tories will give that lettuce a fair crack at fulfilling their policy agenda.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Sue said:


> Leadership election within the next week?!


Not sure how that's going to work


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

you couldn't make it up.


----------



## spitfire (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## JimW (Oct 20, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> I do hope the Tories will give that lettuce a fair crack at fulfilling their policy agenda.


They won't give the job to a wet.


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2022)

She will be remembered for a long time.  

If only in pub quizzes.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 20, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Yep, don't see a significant split, but a UKIP style rightwing pressure group that pulls a couple of MPs (until the loose their seats at the next election), maybe.
> 
> I still think Truss is thee for a bit as the right ring nut jobs won't agree to stand aside in the election for the next leader.


I'd now like to predict I'm not going to win the lottery this weekend.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 20, 2022)

A month and a half.... she wouldn't even be getting a discount card if she worked at Sainsbury's!


----------



## oryx (Oct 20, 2022)

Well that was quick. 

Couldn't happen to a nicer pers... - oh hang on!


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Not sure how that's going to work


Badly


----------



## spitfire (Oct 20, 2022)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Dude, where are you?



100 million balloons are quite a handful!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 20, 2022)

Been stuck in a bloody workshop 

But was out before she was


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Turned out nice again


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 20, 2022)

Brexit benefits lol


----------



## two sheds (Oct 20, 2022)

Are we allowed to laugh?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Turned out nice again


bit of a shame; that was going well


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

Fucking hell.


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Not sure how that's going to work


Anointing someone clearly but fuck knows who...


----------



## Numbers (Oct 20, 2022)

I for one welcome our new Prime Lettuceness.


----------



## Storm Fox (Oct 20, 2022)

15k watching the lettuce 1.4k watching GBNews.


----------



## jakejb79 (Oct 20, 2022)

Daily Star lettuce celebrates victory as Prime Minister Liz Truss resigns
					

Prime Minister Liz Truss has resigned, making her the shortest-serving PM in British history and meaning that the Daily Star's very own 60p lettuce managed to outlast her tenure




					www.dailystar.co.uk
				




The Lettuce has won!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 20, 2022)

Another successful thread!


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> In the last hour:
> 
> 
> Dorries pitches for Johnson to become PM
> ...



The cynical fantasist in me has wondered all along if Lizz Truss was just a part of operation save Big Dog part 2.


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

Where are the Tories going to turn now to produce a Prime Minister even worse than the last one as they have done so reliably?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 20, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Dumpster fire UK is now at Chernobyl status


Anyone fancy sorting out the elephants foot today ?


----------



## WouldBe (Oct 20, 2022)

Numbers said:


> We weren't planning on it but surely now need to have a bit of iceberg with our tea today.


An iceberg sank the (Tory) ship.


----------



## souljacker (Oct 20, 2022)

What an embarrassment. lol.


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> The cynical fantasist in me has wondered all along if Lizz Truss was just a part of operation save Big Dog part 2.


Christ, there's a thought.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

mps only to vote on next PM. Between Mourdant and Sunak? Johnsons back in for lols? Cruella for the loons?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> bit of a shame; that was going well


Yeh like a shit manager at a rival club you want her to lead them to relegation


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 20, 2022)

Same number of days as Brian Clough at Leeds?


----------



## jakejb79 (Oct 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 347981


Initially I thought that was Michael Fabricant


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 20, 2022)

U-turns on her policy of being PM


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> mps only to vote on next PM. Between Mourdant and Sunak? Johnsons back in for lols? Cruella for the loons?



Shapps emerging from the chaos to win.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 20, 2022)

How does she manage to fuck up even her resignation? Pure smugness and not a hint of contrition.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> mps only to vote on next PM. Between Mourdant and Sunak? Johnsons back in for lols? Cruella for the loons?


That was the BBC interpretation of the statement 'in a week' but has there independent confirmation of that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 347981


We've got chilled prosecco at work, fizz without liz


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Can I be the first to congratulate our lettuce overlords.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 20, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Are we allowed to laugh?


It's mandatory


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

belboid said:


> She will be remembered for a long time.
> 
> If only in pub quizzes.



The shortest, disputed, prime ministerial term was the Earl of Bath at 2 days - for fact keeping purposes.


----------



## smmudge (Oct 20, 2022)

She looked happy about it though lol


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Numbers said:


> I for one welcome our new Prime Lettuceness.


Curses!


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

_Wait, I got that wrong. I mean, I’m a quitter not a fighter._


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

smmudge said:


> She looked happy about it though lol



Relieved, I guess.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

smmudge said:


> She looked happy about it though lol



Probably secured a gig on GBNews.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 20, 2022)

I don’t normally do daytime drinking unless I’m on holiday , but…


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Only really entertaining bit was how the cameras stayed on for this bit, where they aren't sure what to do with the lectern, just the mundaneness of it all soggy leaves and yet another shit PM resigning.


----------



## xenon (Oct 20, 2022)

ANother fucking leadership election from that lot. lol


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> That was the BBC interpretation of the statement 'in a week' but has there independent confirmation of that?


"to be completed within the next week" was part of what she said.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

QueenOfGoths said:


> A month and a half.... she wouldn't even be getting a discount card if she worked at Sainsbury's!


Not even long enough to change Bojo and Carrie's bedroom wallpaper


----------



## WouldBe (Oct 20, 2022)

maomao said:


> Where are the Tories going to turn now to produce a Prime Minister even worse than the last one as they have done so reliably?


JRM.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 20, 2022)

She didn’t get through her probation period


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2022)

The Liz Truss lettuce currently has over 22,000 viewers on youtube

For context, GB news currently has just over 3,500


----------



## xenon (Oct 20, 2022)

Not caught up with posts. That has to be the shortest resignation speech on record.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 20, 2022)

Dogsauce said:


> A placeholder…


Well that flushed easily.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> "to be completed within the next week" was part of what she said.


Yeah but what does that actually mean, it _could _mean within a week for MPs to decide the two candidates.


----------



## BCBlues (Oct 20, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Same number of days as Brian Clough at Leeds?



They disappeared shortly after for a very long time


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

*Come on Boris!*




Yes, I know, johnson. But I just had to.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> How does she manage to fuck up even her resignation? Pure smugness and not a hint of contrition.



Were you aware that as an ex-PM she will receive a payment of £115,000 a year for life? 

As do Major, Blair, Brown, Johnson, Cameron and May?


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> The shortest, disputed, prime ministerial term was the Earl of Bath at 2 days - for fact keeping purposes.


Not a prime minister.  The title didn’t exist then.


----------



## furluxor (Oct 20, 2022)

I'm actually quite relieved. She was never supposed to be in the job and the last few times I saw her in videos she looked like death warmed over. I dislike her as much as the next person but watching someone fall apart for real is no fun.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Yeah but what does that actually mean, within a week for MPs to decide?


Whatever the detail it means the new leader will be decided within a week.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

She'd probably have survived if she hadn't forced them all to vote for fucking fracking yesterday, of all things, completely mad all of it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> mps only to vote on next PM. Between Mourdant and Sunak? Johnsons back in for lols? Cruella for the loons?


No idea myself, but if the suggestion was Mourdant agreed to just take the party up to the next election, whether her or someone else maybe that's the only way to get someone to take it and others to get behind?

Someone towards the start of their career, for whom it would be a platform to build on, rather than their 'one and only shot', which likely wouldn't appeal to any of the bigger names?

Or maybe someone bland who is happy to give it a go for two years because they never thought they'd get anywhere near the job otherwise, so _anything_ is a bonus rather than a 'wasted opportunity'?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 20, 2022)

Thank fuck I won’t have to read or hear another word about that fucking lettuce


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Same number of days as Brian Clough at Leeds?





> His pay-off was estimated at £98,000



I bet that's what she was offered from Chaz to fuck off.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Hunt will not be standing for leader.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Were you aware that as an ex-PM she will receive a payment of £115,000 a year for life?
> 
> As do Major, Blair, Brown, Johnson, Cameron and May?


Up to iirc, supposedly to carry out good works


----------



## Storm Fox (Oct 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> The cynical fantasist in me has wondered all along if Lizz Truss was just a part of operation save Big Dog part 2.


Johnson was doing badly in the polls, so it won't do much, after this chaos, who wants Fun-Time Boris


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 20, 2022)

.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

Mordaunt must be watching the lettuce cam since she just told MPs to keep calm and carry on, just like the mug thats currently present in the scene on that camera.


----------



## A380 (Oct 20, 2022)

Strong n Stable.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 20, 2022)

Bloke on the BBC just said ‘2022, the year of three Prime Ministers… at _least_’.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Johnson was doing badly in the polls, so it won't do much, after this chaos, who wants Fun-Time Boris


Yeah it was fantasy Island thoughts boss.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 20, 2022)

please can she quit parliament instead of hanging around the backbenches as an embarrassment. 
the bye-election would be hilarious.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 20, 2022)

So it’s a vote by MPs? They really don’t trust the members!


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 20, 2022)

It's going to be Sunak, right?


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Johnson was doing badly in the polls, so it won't do much, after this chaos, who wants Fun-Time Boris





friedaweed said:


> Yeah it was fantasy Island thoughts boss.


The way things are going, who knows..?!  🤷‍♀️


----------



## xenon (Oct 20, 2022)

OK Yep. Hands up. I was wrong.

Had Truss surviving until mid Nov at least. Markets settled down with Hunt in charge. Grey men calling the shots and a potential replacement being sought out behind the scenes. Yesterday's rediculous chaos made that untenable.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

The Daily Star's front page tomorrow is going to be a classic.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> She'd probably have survived if she hadn't forced them all to vote for fucking fracking yesterday, of all things, completely mad all of it.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Hunt will not be standing for leader.


News readers across the world breath a sigh of relief....


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> Whatever the detail it means the new leader will be decided within a week.


Well they obviously would like a coronation. But with them fighting like rats in a sack I'm not sure how practical that is. Or what position it leaves any leader in.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

ItStillWontWork said:


> It's going to be Sunak, right?


i reckon it'll probably be Mordaunt, because fewer people hate her, because nobody knows who she is and she can do the media performances.  With Sunak as chancellor.


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 20, 2022)

Another day and she would have outlasted David Blaine's time in the glass box.


----------



## not a trot (Oct 20, 2022)

So Larry is officialy in charge for the next week.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Well they obviously would like a coronation. But with them fighting like rats in a sack I'm not sure how practical that is. Or what position it leaves any leader in.


They probably spent most of todays meeting working out the practicalities.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Were you aware that as an ex-PM she will receive a payment of £115,000 a year for life?
> 
> As do Major, Blair, Brown, Johnson, Cameron and May?


And probably security for life.


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> i reckon it'll probably be Mordaunt, because fewer people hate her, because nobody knows who she is and she can do the media performances.  With Sunak as chancellor.


I suspect this is correct. 

Can anyone remember how many votes she missed out on going into the final round by last time?


----------



## flypanam (Oct 20, 2022)

ItStillWontWork said:


> It's going to be Sunak, right?


Nah half of them hate him for stabbing BJ. I think a pile of dog shit actually has a chance of winning this!


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

ItStillWontWork said:


> It's going to be Sunak, right?


Doubt it.

We were discussing who? Who indeed?

Never ever thought I'd say this, but Gove is actually looking good in comparison to the others. Wallace would be my choice, but it isn't going to be him I don't think.

What an utter and absolute clusterfuck.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Dogsauce said:


> Bloke on the BBC just said ‘2022, the year of three Prime Ministers… at _least_’.



1782, 1783, 1827, 1852, 1886 and 1924 all had three but only 1834 had four.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2022)

not a trot said:


> So Larry is officialy in charge for the next week.


For next 2 years 👍


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 20, 2022)

Thunderdome, two men enter, one man leaves.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

One last time...


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

The lettuce is having a party and wearing little a crown.


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> i reckon it'll probably be Mordaunt, because fewer people hate her, because nobody knows who she is and she can do the media performances.  With Sunak as chancellor.



That makes sense


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> i reckon it'll probably be Mordaunt, because fewer people hate her, because nobody knows who she is and she can do the media performances.  With Sunak as chancellor.


Mordaunt lost to Truss and Sunak because she was too wooden and lacked depth. To Truss.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> They probably spent most of todays meeting working out the practicalities.


Truss and Brady have come to some agreement sure - but I can see one or more of the headbanger's not playing the game.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2022)

Is Hunt about to snatch Kawsi's record from him?


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> One last time...




Career prediction right there


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

andysays said:


> I suspect this is correct.
> 
> Can anyone remember how many votes she missed out on going into the final round by last time?











						July–September 2022 Conservative Party leadership election - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Not sure any candidate would gain anything by sacking Hunt


----------



## prunus (Oct 20, 2022)

furluxor said:


> I'm actually quite relieved. She was never supposed to be in the job and the last few times I saw her in videos she looked like death warmed over. I dislike her as much as the next person but watching someone fall apart for real is no fun.



Nah, it was fun.  She's scum.


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 20, 2022)

Given what was said about it taking place next week, and the grievous situation they find themselves in, you would think they would have a single candidate agreed in advance of the announcement. But given the past couple of weeks who fucking knows.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Truss and Brady have come to some agreement sure - but I can see one or more of the headbanger's not playing the game.


My view hasnt changed from last night, the headbangers will be sidelined, their moment has passed.

I'm not 100% certain about that but despite the noises the headbangers will make I still think thats the most likely outcome.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Wiki editors were quick as usual.


----------



## kenny g (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Not sure any candidate would gain anything by sacking Hunt


Probably exactly what will happen then.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Andrew Bridgen has just told Sky news that if the Party cannot get behind one person then there would have to be an General election


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

flypanam said:


> Nah half of them hate him for stabbing BJ. I think a pile of dog shit actually has a chance of winning this!


Strangely that describes all the potential candidates


----------



## andysays (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> View attachment 347987
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just think, if just 5 of those MPs who voted for Truss had voted for Mordaunt instead, the last 45 days need never have happened


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Not sure any candidate would gain anything by sacking Hunt


You're never sure of anything. I reckon there's a lot of satisfaction to be gained by handing Hunt a p45


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 20, 2022)

This is a huge blow to Labours election chances


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

hash tag said:


> And probably security for life.



Yes, I think I read somewhere that they do.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 20, 2022)

£115k a year for life for 44 days of shit. Nice work if you can get it.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> 1782, 1783, 1827, 1852, 1886 and 1924 all had three but only 1834 had four.



Don't Google. Which year had three kings?


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Well they obviously would like a coronation. But with them fighting like rats in a sack I'm not sure how practical that is. Or what position it leaves any leader in.


And who would be stupid/deluded enough to want to take over at this point?


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Cloo (Oct 20, 2022)

It feels like it should be a rule that an administration that goes through more than 2 leaders inter-election should have to call a GE, as it’s the point of no return for that government


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

cybershot said:


> £115k a year for life for 44 days of shit. Nice work if you can get it.


Is that true I cant believe it?

oh, It's done by claiming you have done lots of "public duties" 





						Public Duty Costs Allowance guidance
					






					www.gov.uk
				



which Truss turning on the xmas lights as an ironic celeb in some small town might not quite add up to that much.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Don't Google. Which year had three kings?



That must be the Edward V year, whatever that was?


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 20, 2022)

What are those blue remembered hills


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Andrew Bridgen has just told Sky news that if the Party cannot get behind one person then there would have to be an General election


They'd still need a leader.

Or maybe not. Maybe they could campaign as a collective with a promise to choose the PM when they win the election? Leaders are overrated.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2022)

furluxor said:


> I'm actually quite relieved. She was never supposed to be in the job and the last few times I saw her in videos she looked like death warmed over. I dislike her as much as the next person but watching someone fall apart for real is no fun.


Feel sorry for her, really. She didn't apply for the job, she fought tooth and nail for it.


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

cybershot said:


> £115k a year for life for 44 days of shit. Nice work if you can get it.


I once got eight grand for four days work after the company I worked for got bought out. But Truss has outdone me again.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

Lurdan said:


> What are those blue remembered hills


Blue remaindered hills now.


----------



## prunus (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> Is that true I cant believe it?



It's not quite like a stipend, "The allowance is a reimbursement of expenses for “necessary office and secretarial costs arising from fulfilling public duties”"

Ie it's an administration costs fund, to reclaim actual expenses made in the fulfillment of post-office public duties.



e2a: here are some very dry details: Public Duty Costs Allowance guidance


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2022)

Who will be the effigy to be burnt at Lewes fireworks this year, truss, Johnson or?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

andysays said:


> Just think, if just 5 of those MPs who voted for Truss had voted for Mordaunt instead, the last 45 days need never have happened


If mordaunt had been in number 10 we'd not have had so much fun the last seven weeks


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> That must be the Edward V year, whatever that was?


1936


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

cybershot said:


> £115k a year for life for 44 days of shit. Nice work if you can get it.



It really is beyond irony.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Who will be the effigy to be burnt at Lewes fireworks this year, truss, Johnson or?


There's space for loads, not either/or but and


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

The Guardian must have been prepped for this as they've already published an article on the shortest serving leaders. Truss obvs takes the record for British PM. But Kwarteng loses out to.... Joseph Goebbels... although i think the term chancellor means something different there?









						Liz Truss joins ranks of shortest-serving world leaders
					

At just 45 days, Truss holds the shortest UK premiership record, but she at least outstrips some other leaders




					www.theguardian.com
				






> *British prime ministers*​The Tory statesman George Canning had, until Thursday, the distinction of holding the UK record, serving 119 days in office before dying of tuberculosis on 8 August 1827. The holder of many senior government posts in his time, including foreign secretary, he is remembered for his part in such an extreme example of cabinet in-fighting that Truss’s woes pale in comparison. As foreign secretary, such was the antipathy between him and the war secretary Lord Castlereagh, that the government became paralysed by their disputes. It ended in a duel on Putney Heath when Canning, who had never fired a pistol, was wounded in the thigh. Though both resigned, amid outrage that two cabinet ministers had conducted themselves in such a manner, he subsequently became prime minister. He died after barely five months in office.





> *Chancellors*​Joseph Goebbels can technically claim this record. He was, in effect, the German chancellor for just one night after Adolf Hitler killed himself on 30 April 1945. But the day after he replaced Hitler, Goebbels and his wife, Magda, poisoned their six children, then killed themselves.


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Who will be the effigy to be burnt at Lewes fireworks this year, truss, Johnson or?


Jeremy Corbyn.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

cybershot said:


> £115k a year for life for 44 days of shit. Nice work if you can get it.


Here's wishing her a short life then


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Don't Google. Which year had three kings?



 0AD


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

prunus said:


> It's not quite like a stipend, "The allowance is a reimbursement of expenses for “necessary office and secretarial costs arising from fulfilling public duties”"
> 
> Ie it's an administration costs fund, to reclaim actual expenses made in the fulfillment of post-office public duties.


yep, I can't imagine she's going to have any public duties, but she'll definitely try to claim the money for appearing in whatever panto will have her as a joke.


----------



## Aladdin (Oct 20, 2022)

I don't mean to gloat...
But....



Aladdin said:


> I give Truss til Friday.
> She'll fall on her own sword in the interests of the "Party" and the country.





Aladdin said:


> I may have been a little late in pinning Friday.
> Could be Thursday.




Called it!!! 


😁😁


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> The Guardian must have been prepped for this as they've already published an article on the shortest serving leaders. Truss obvs takes the record for British PM. But Kwarteng loses out to.... Joseph Goebbels... although i think the term chancellor means something different there?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Goebbels didn't want truss to break his record


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

hmm I'd like to think that maybe the Tory party would learn from this and not pick another twat back by the erg / right wing bampots of the party

but then again they are tories


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> 1936



That too, the Edward VIII year, so there were two years of three kings.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> ye I cant imagine she's not going to have any public duties, but she'll definitely try.


She will become a very popular aunt sally


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> 1936



 It was.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

prunus said:


> It's not quite like a stipend, "The allowance is a reimbursement of expenses for “necessary office and secretarial costs arising from fulfilling public duties”"
> 
> Ie it's an administration costs fund, to reclaim actual expenses made in the fulfillment of *post-office public duties*.


Lollipops don't buy themselves.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm I'd like to think that maybe the Tory party would learn from this and not pick another twat back by the erg / right wing bampots of the party
> 
> but then again they are tories


The scary thing is that Liz Truss was not the bottom of the barrel. There’s further down to go.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> It was.



A shame they didn't have stamps in 1483.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 20, 2022)

cybershot said:


> £115k a year for life for 44 days of shit. Nice work if you can get it.


200 billion spaffed


----------



## Aladdin (Oct 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> She will become a very popular aunt sally



60 day Sally..

You may congratulate me btw in calling her resignation  to the day...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> 1936


Edward v 1483


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> But Kwarteng loses out to.... Joseph Goebbels... although i think the term chancellor means something different there?


the chancellor in Germany is the boss, so yeah.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

What are they going to be thinking, is it just 'who do the majority of us hate the least' right now or is it who might give us a chance of not losing the next GE?


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

Guess who's back? Not Tugendhat. Add him to the pile with Gove and Hunt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Don't Google. Which year had three kings?


Not three Kings, 1 King and two Queens, 1553 - Edward vi, lady Jane grey, Mary tudor


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> What are they going to be thinking, is it just 'who do the majority of us hate the least' or is it who might give us a chance of not losing the next GE?



Either "let's crown Sunak" or "how can we stop Sunak".


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

I won!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> What are they going to be thinking, is it just 'who do the majority of us hate the least' right now or is it who might give us a chance of not losing the next GE?


Yes


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 20, 2022)

It has to be Boris, doesn't it?  

He's the only person that can defy the necessary gravity, and deflects the argument away from the General election


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> It has top be Boris, doesn't it?
> 
> He's the only person that can defy the necessary gravity, and deflects the argument away from the General election


No, he's come down to earth with a bump and wants to spend more time with his bank account


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> This is a huge blow to Labours election chances


Yep. Still favourites, but ... yep.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Me and my colleagues have come down to the pub to celebrate. I've not seen the country this united since the Euros. It feels like VE day.


----------



## redcogs (Oct 20, 2022)

im sick of this Tory shitshow.  Its time we had a popular working class challenge to all the smug fucks of every Party in the house of commons.  If a general election is not called, and yet another useless time serving fuckshit of a Tory is imposed, then the TUC should call an immediate GENERAL STRIKE!  The ordinary people are being treated with absolute contempt by a tiny sponging minority of right wing lisping semi despots and it has got to fucking end.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> This is a huge blow to Labours election chances


I don't think so. It's still chaos. Truss has resigned without a replacement or even an agreement on how to replace her. 

imo a general election soon has now become much more likely.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

redcogs said:


> im sick of this Tory shitshow.  Its time we had a popular working class challenge to all the smug fucks of every Party in the house of commons.  If a general election is not called, and yet another useless time serving fuckshit of a Tory is imposed, then the TUC should call an immediate GENERAL STRIKE!  The ordinary people are being treated with absolute contempt by a tiny sponging minority of right wing lisping semi despots and it has got to fucking end.


It's their ideas and actions, not their speech impediments, I find objectionable


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Don't Google. Which year had three kings?


Zero BC and one AD.

Cheers  - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Yep. Still favourites, but ... yep.



Sunak will win. Sorry. But that's my prediction. More than happy to be proven wrong. He has enough time to right the ship.

And no, I don't have a 'hard-on' for him. I'm just a pragmatist.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Yep. Still favourites, but ... yep.


Conventional wisdom is that it will take a decade or more for the tories to begin to recover their economic reputation. I have little reason to doubt that wisdom at this stage, no matter how well the next leader performs.

And there will probably be plenty of events this winter which worsen peoples impressions of the government.

There are also unknowns about how long the next tory leader will feel like they can wait before calling an election. So no end of timing speculation ahead.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> The scary thing is that Liz Truss was not the bottom of the barrel. There’s further down to go.


The very point that Robert Shrimsley was making this morning: "the Truss experiment has shown us to be wary of calling the bottom of a political market. There is always another rung down."






						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Me and my colleagues have come down to the pub to celebrate. I've not seen the country this united since the Euros. It feels like VE day.


No it doesn’t


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

In an Express.co.uk poll on October 14,  82 percent of readers said they thought Johnson should come back as PM


----------



## manji (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Me and my colleagues have come down to the pub to celebrate. I've not seen the country this united since the Euros. It feels like VE day.


What’s to celebrate ? Who’s going eventually replace her ? Starmer ? He will be far worse.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> In an Express.co.uk poll on October 14,  82 percent of readers said they thought Johnson should come back as PM


And the other 18 wanted thatcher


----------



## two sheds (Oct 20, 2022)

So who's in charge?


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

two sheds said:


> So who's in charge?



She is


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

two sheds said:


> So who's in charge?


She who won't be obeyed


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

two sheds said:


> So who's in charge?


Truss will remain nominally in charge during the fast tracked leadership contest. In practice this wont be much different to the position she already found herself in, members of cabinet calling certain shots.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2022)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Zero BC and one AD.
> 
> Cheers  - Louis MacNeice




The O's get everywhere.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Sunak will win. Sorry. But that's my prediction. More than happy to be proven wrong. He has enough time to right the ship.
> 
> And no, I don't have a 'hard-on' for him. I'm just a pragmatist.


you're throbbing dude. we call all see it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> In an Express.co.uk poll on October 14,  82 percent of readers said they thought Johnson should come back as PM



Yes, but their readers are barking mad.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 20, 2022)

I am amused that despite the markets’ role in bringing her down, they apparently don’t give a crap about her departure


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> In an Express.co.uk poll on October 14,  82 percent of readers said they thought Johnson should come back as PM


Aye well we've got even better numbers for the lettuce:


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Members to get a vote just crazy


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Sunak will win. Sorry. But that's my prediction. More than happy to be proven wrong. He has enough time to right the ship.
> 
> And no, I don't have a 'hard-on' for him. I'm just a pragmatist.


You will be proven wrong


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Are they going to come out and announce themselves the contenders or is it all just going to happen behind closed doors or what.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> She is


Yes, if I've got this right: the tory members were the ones who made her PM, but only by making her party leader. She's just resigned as leader of the tory party but continues as PM (only for a week, admittedly).


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Yes, if I've got this right: the tory members were the ones who made her PM, but only by making her party leader. She's just resigned as leader of the tory party but continues as PM (only for a week, admittedly).



Boris got to be PM all the way through the leadership contest while making more babies and sunning himself in the med so I assume this will be the same?


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Members to get a vote just crazy



Members "to have a say". Could be one candidate which they are asked to endorse.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> you're throbbing dude. we call all see it.



It's a done deal. And you know it.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Members to get a vote just crazy


really?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

Braverman expected to stand. 

That's right. Problem with Truss is she wasn't r/w enough.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Members to get a vote just crazy


not possible, the'yre saying the next one will be installed within a week arent they?


----------



## redcogs (Oct 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> It's their ideas and actions, not their speech impediments, I find objectionable


Yes very 'right on' of you Pickman's Model.   But right wing lisping semi despots need teaching a lesson by the 'mob'.  i have no problems with left wing lisping democrats btw.  Some of my besties have been of that very same variety 
🤣


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Braverman expected to stand.
> 
> That's right. Problem with Truss is she wasn't r/w enough.


Normal for the headbangers to have a candidate, but I still expect things to be arranged so that they dont actually threaten to win.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

If Braverman gets in there will be riots and so there should be.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Braverman expected to stand.
> 
> That's right. Problem with Truss is she wasn't r/w enough.



The talk is that people wanting to stand will need a high number to nominate them, the figure of 100 is floating about, so she has no chance.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

The problem with whatever process they come up with is the party is such a pit of broiling vomit that they won't be able to predict the outcome.  They'll presumably have to get nominations in within the next 24 hours? I think it's very unlikely to be anyone other than sunak or mordor, but they could fuck it up and re-loon the party again.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> If Braverman gets in there will be riots and so there should be.


not going to happen, braverman or kemi or any of those. Unless the party thinks that's their only remaining chance to win the next GE, just going on about tofu and immigrants and cervixes for the next 2 years.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> In an Express.co.uk poll on October 14,  82 percent of readers said they thought Johnson should come back as PM



The Express is the wormhole to  insanity though.


----------



## Supine (Oct 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I am amused that despite the markets’ role in bringing her down, they apparently don’t give a crap about her departure
> 
> View attachment 347989



The markets want a steady ship and a costed plan. They still have neither. This resignation is just cherry flavoured chaos on top of a chaos cake.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> The problem with whatever process they come up with is the party is such a pit of broiling vomit that they won't be able to predict the outcome.  They'll presumably have to get nominations in within the next 24 hours? I think it's very unlikely to be anyone other than sunak or mordor, but they could fuck it up and re-loon the party again.


Part of the reason Im more confident that the loon possibilities wont be enabled this time is the nature of the economic market doom - its killed an ideology and its put the establishment of the country into emergency dull stable management mode.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> not going to happen, braverman or kemi or any of those. Unless the party thinks that's their only remaining chance to win the next GE, just going on about tofu and immigrants and cervixes for the next 2 years.


I could see them giving it a try


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> It's a done deal. And you know it.


I don't know it at all - I doubt Sunak will win this new leadership contest, and I doubt he would win the next election even if he did.


----------



## extra dry (Oct 20, 2022)

I know, it's going to be a broken pen, most likely a blue one.


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 20, 2022)

Bye bye Liz...

Larry for PM


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Sound on!


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> I don't know it at all - I doubt Sunak will win this new leadership contest, and I doubt he would win the next election even if he did.



Well let's see. A lot of the last candidates seem to be ruling themselves out already. No word from Sunak yet. But I can't believe the idiots who voted for Truss could be so stupid twice and not elect him this time. It is a a poisoned chalice though so you might be right. He might not even run.


----------



## Rob Ray (Oct 20, 2022)

I don't think there'll be another loon to follow, that wing of the parliamentary party has just fucked it too badly this time and it won't get to putting one in front of the membership.


----------



## T & P (Oct 20, 2022)

She was clearly trying to stiffle as smile a couple of times during the announcement. I wonder if it was out of relief, or if she was already thinking of the shit time her successor is going to have as well, and rejoicing at the thought?


----------



## furluxor (Oct 20, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Feel sorry for her, really. She didn't apply for the job, she fought tooth and nail for it.



I do too, a little. I mean, she's still quids in and she did mess it up royally, it's all memes and facepalms to me but life and death to many. However, she was looking seriously unwell.


----------



## quimcunx (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> That must be the Edward V year, whatever that was?



1936 I think.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

extra dry said:


> I know, it's going to be a broken pen, most likely a blue one.


A broken penis


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

quimcunx said:


> 1936 I think.



That was Edward VIII. Edward V was the 12-year old that was murdered in the Tower of London.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 20, 2022)

I chuckled


----------



## two sheds (Oct 20, 2022)

The people who voted for her likely thought the mini budget was just what we need and are disappointed she backed down.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Don't Google. Which year had three kings?


Edward the 8th year? 1938? (Guess)


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Edward the 8th year? 1938? (Guess)


1936


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

I think we may as well just wait and see what happens, rather than wasting loads of words and energy on completely uninformed speculation... let's all do that.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Spoiler: CW: Wrongness



Is this the acceptable time to admit Truss has a certain sex appeal?


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Boris seems to be be seriously talked about as a contender. I mean. The world is fucking mental right... so we could end up with President Trump and Prime Minister Johnson in 2024


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Spoiler: CW: Wrongness
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the acceptable time to admit Truss has a certain sex appeal?


fuck off.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Spoiler: CW: Wrongness
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the acceptable time to admit Truss has a certain sex appeal?



No, just no!


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

If it was a 100 nomination threshold - 357 tory mps - you'd _think _sunak and mordor would get 100 each.  However if there are a cou9ple of loons in there and the odd random, they might struggle to get 2 candidates over the line.  At one level, that might be what they want, just get some one in, but still a fucking silly process.  Suppose what I'm saying is that doing it this way may lead to sunak or mordor winning outright at round 1, whereas the previous elimination method could have produced a different winner (or at least different people going to the members.


----------



## Cid (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris seems to be be seriously talked about as a contender. I mean. The world is fucking mental right... so we could end up with President Trump and Prime Minister Johnson in 2024



Nah, this looks to be purely 'stick a centrist technocrat in' stuff.

e2a: or not if Brady's anything to go by. Surely _has_ to be fully engineered if it goes to the membership though.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Spoiler: CW: Wrongness
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the acceptable time to admit Truss has a certain sex appeal?


Better you come out now with your sexual desire for Truss than for it to come out later


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 20, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> I think we may as well just wait and see what happens, rather than wasting loads of words and energy on completely uninformed speculation... let's all do that.


This is Urban


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

Oh, I think there’s more barrel.


----------



## weepiper (Oct 20, 2022)

Scotland has had five first ministers since 1999. The Tories are about to have their fifth prime minister since 2016.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

T & P said:


> She was clearly trying to stiffle as smile a couple of times during the announcement. I wonder if it was out of relief, or if she was already thinking of the shit time her successor is going to have as well, and rejoicing at the thought?



It's like moving house and leaving a huge unflushable turd in the bog


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

My god - are they really going to send it to the membership again? It really could end up with Johnson back again.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2022)

Johnson's going to run again.


----------



## Epona (Oct 20, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Scotland has had five first ministers since 1999. The Tories are about to have their fifth prime minister since 2016.



Let's not get ahead of ourselves and call it too early, there's still enough of 2022 left for it to be 5 in one year.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Cid said:


> Nah, this looks to be purely 'stick a centrist technocrat in' stuff.



I would not be surprised by anything anymore. But on reflection, I'm fairly sure Sunak will run, despite the hospital pass he's being handed. He's not gonna wait another 7 years for his chance.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

Hash4Cash said:


> Bye bye Liz...
> 
> Larry for PM


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

According  sky news Kemi Badenoch looks set to stand for the leadeeship


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

Some suggestion that the membership could vote online. Which opens up the real possibility of our next  Prime Minister being  Boaty Mc Boatface.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> fuck off.



Not up for some fiscal devastation?


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Some suggestion that the membership could vote online. Which opens up the real possibility of our next  Prime Minister being  Boaty Mc Boatface.



Definitely. As many of them will need their grandchildren to operate the computer thingy


----------



## weepiper (Oct 20, 2022)

Can we _not_ have discussion on several threads of whether men would fuck Liz Truss or not, thanks, Jesus fucking Christ.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

Any news on Rees Mogg standing?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Any news on Rees Mogg standing?


He prefers lying.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Definitely. As many of them will need their grandchildren to operate the computer thingy



More than a tad ageist there.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Can we _not_ have discussion on several threads of whether men would fuck Liz Truss or not, thanks, Jesus fucking Christ.



Stop kink shaming.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

wtf. it seems the boris rumours are true.

this is all very funny.


----------



## redcogs (Oct 20, 2022)

i dont see how the vermin  can become stable enough to hold on for a GE in a couple of  years. All the rancour will still exist under Sunak or whoever. Nor do i see them voting for a GE that they will lose.  So plenty chaos ahead regardless. Bringing the  likeliehood of a national government stitch up with Starmers lot much nearer.  or, worst still WW3.  Maybe both.  A serious working class presence needs establishing - just to show 'the market' that an alternative societal power still exists and it can be assertive in it's own interests.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Stop kink shaming.


Awesome Wells shaming to continue though


----------



## 2hats (Oct 20, 2022)

Cometh the hour, cometh the deranged narcissist and pathological liar.








						Steven Swinford (@Steven_Swinford)
					

EXCLUSIVE:  I'm told that Boris Johnson is expected to stand in the Tory leadership contest  He's taking soundings but is said to believe it is a matter of national interest  https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liz-truss-latest-news-resign-tory-mp-westminster-follow-live-gf7g23fxm




					nitter.net


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> wtf. it seems the boris rumours are true.
> 
> this is all very funny.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

2hats said:


> Cometh the hour, cometh the deranged narcissist and pathological liar.


Which one?


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 20, 2022)

FFS, was just about to put shitloads on the cunt Boris as an emotional hedge...Was at 14/1 when I started, now at 4/1.

He is nailed on


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Boris is now firm favourite. He would have won the last leadership election by a landslide.

I mean. This is funny right??


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris is now firm favourite.


He has to win enough votes from MPs first. That's the hurdle for Johnson, and it's a big one.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris is now firm favourite. He would have won the last leadership election by a landslide.



Depends on who's voting. 

 If it's the members, he'll win.  I think plenty of the MPs still  remember how bad he was and would want someone else


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, I think there’s more barrel.



Wonder how long that's been sitting in Drafts


----------



## Flavour (Oct 20, 2022)

This is absolutely unbelievable - Boris back within 2 months?! It's insanity.


----------



## strung out (Oct 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Awesome Wells shaming to continue though


Nah, AW is back but it isn't WhyLikeThis


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2022)

Flavour said:


> This is absolutely unbelievable - Boris back within 2 months?! It's insanity.


Naw. He might want to, but Naw.


----------



## weepiper (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Stop kink shaming.


Fuck off.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris is now firm favourite.



No, he's a distant third:


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Even Gerry is throwing shade.


----------



## a_chap (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Wonder how long that's been sitting in Drafts


I think that's some morduant stan account rather than any official campaign fwiw. Morduant hasn't said anything yet


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Stop kink shaming.



I suggest you back off with this shit.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I suggest you back off with this shit.


Stop cunt shaming


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

She's unified the fucking world, not just the country   



> *Russia’s foreign ministry* has welcomed the departure of Liz Truss as British prime minister, describing her as a “disgrace” of a leader who will be remembered for her “catastrophic illiteracy”.
> 
> “Britain has never known such a disgrace of a prime minister,” Russian foreign ministry spokeswoman *Maria Zakharova* said in a social media post.
> 
> ...


----------



## ItStillWontWork (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> Some suggestion that the membership could vote online. Which opens up the real possibility of our next  Prime Minister being  Boaty Mc Boatface.



I love that boat


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> She who won't be obeyed


Nayesha if you will.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)

seriously doubt Johnson would have the backing of enough mps . The members may love him - but mps know hes shat the bed with voters - and he is the very worse option if you wanted to avoid any more chaos.  The headbangers will go for braverman or badenoch. If they get enough to get to the last two I cant see them standing down as they'd have a good chance of winning the members vote and do not want to see a "coup" by the party establishment If its sunack/mourdant/an other "centrist"  as the last two-  then one will step down.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris is now firm favourite. He would have won the last leadership election by a landslide.
> 
> I mean. This is funny right??


No.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> yep, I can't imagine she's going to have any public duties, but she'll definitely try to claim the money for appearing in whatever panto will have her as a joke.


Oh No She Wont !!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> seriously doubt Johnson would have the backing of enough mps . The members may love him - but mps know hes shat the bed with voters - and he is the very worse option if you wanted to avoid any more chaos.  The headbangers will go for braverman or badenoch. If they get enough to get to the last two I cant see them standing down as they'd have a good chance of winning the members vote and do not want to see a "coup" by the party establishment If its sunack/mourdant/an other "centrist"  as the last two-  then one will step down.



Agreed.

Plus he's still being investigated by the Privileges Committee.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

Kaka Tim said:


> seriously doubt Johnson would have the backing of enough mps . The members may love him - but mps know hes shat the bed with voters - and he is the very worse option if you wanted to avoid any more chaos.  The headbangers will go for braverman or badenoch. If they get enough to get to the last two I cant see them standing down as they'd have a good chance of winning the members vote and do not want to see a "coup" by the party establishment If its sunack/mourdant/an other "centrist"  as the last two-  then one will step down.



Well, everyone's ruling themselves out. Hunt has done now as well. 

If it comes down to Sunak/Johnson for the gammons to vote on, we all know where that's going.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


>



FUCK. NO


----------



## kebabking (Oct 20, 2022)

I imagine the 22 will set a fairly high bar for nominations - 100 or so to ensure there are only 3, one knocked out by Wednesday, potentially two go to the membership on Thursday - ideally with the one with fewer votes pulling out.

Johnson is not going to get 100 nominations, and nor is Braverman.


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Plus he's still being investigated by the Privileges Committee.



The members don't care about that


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> The members don't care about that



They don't matter, there's no way the MPs will let Johnson be in the final two.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Have they declared the details of the selection process yet?


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

It's a few years since we had a good riot in this country ...


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 20, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> In an Express.co.uk poll on October 14,  82 percent of readers said they thought Johnson should come back as PM


TBf that's like a poll in the Chimp enclosure over whether banana's are tasty.


Supine said:


> The markets want a steady ship and a costed plan. They still have neither. This resignation is just cherry flavoured chaos on top of a chaos cake.


Served with a side order of craziness


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

There is problem if Johnson stand again and win namely the privilege committee starts it investigating into party gate  so he loses that we would have another leadership election again


----------



## Raheem (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> They don't matter, there's no way the MPs will let Johnson be in the final two.


I thought that about Truss...


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

i'm not entertained anymore. Feels like this was a perfectly viable country not that long ago and they've fucked it, and people have to live here.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, I think there’s more barrel.



Oh well, in for a penny


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 20, 2022)

Johnson may well get in, but he wouldn't unify the party.
And neither would Maurdant or Sunak. 

The only course of action is whoever does get in they immediately call an election.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Oct 20, 2022)

The reasons Johnson isn't PM anymore are his thoughts, words and actions; the mechanism by which Johnson isn't PM anymore is that this same set of MPs rose up against him in sufficient numbers to make his position untenable.

He's not making it through the selection process, no matter how much of a hardon the Daily Express has for him.  The reasons MPs wanted him out all still apply, it was only 3 sodding months ago.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, I think there’s more barrel.




What's that proverb again, about pennies that come back?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> I think that's some morduant stan account rather than any official campaign fwiw. Morduant hasn't said anything yet


Because shy and retiring Mordaunt wouldn't know a thing about this and would only _humbly accept the call_ - should it come - from _a group of concerned citizens_ (completely unknown to her, of course) to _serve in the national interest_, etc


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Not beyond the realms of possibility.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 20, 2022)

Johnson is not going to get anywhere near 100 nominations


----------



## gentlegreen (Oct 20, 2022)

Does Truss really walk away with a massive pension and personal security ?



			https://twitter.com/i/events/1582718593430654978


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Grant Shapps name is the running according to Sky News


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> My view hasnt changed from last night, the headbangers will be sidelined, their moment has passed.
> 
> I'm not 100% certain about that but despite the noises the headbangers will make I still think thats the most likely outcome.


I don't think the headbanger's will get their candidate this time but if the 1922 committee make it_ too_ obvious a stitch up them they are just feeding the loons ammo.


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 20, 2022)

The return of Boris really gives a sense of the party being over


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Johnson is not going to get anywhere near 100 nominations



It may not take 100 nominations


----------



## prunus (Oct 20, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Does Truss walk away with a massive pension and personal security ?



Pension, no (well, I'm sure it will be bigger than most, but it won't be much boosted by her 44 days) - PMs nowadays just contribute to a pension scheme from their salary in the normal way.  Prior to 2013 they got a lifetime 50% of final PM salary for life, payable from the moment of leaving office, regardless of time served in office.  Now that was a good gig...


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Because shy and retiring Mordaunt wouldn't know a thing about this and would only _humbly accept the call_ - should it come - from _a group of concerned citizens_ (completely unknown to her, of course) to _serve in the national interest_, etc


Only a couple of thousand followers though


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> Only a couple of thousand followers though


The cream of the cadres!


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

These bits of 'news' about Johnson standing, where are they even coming from is it just him texting from sunlounger on a beach somewhere?


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> These bits of 'news' about Johnson standing, where are they even coming from is it just him texting from sunlounger on a beach somewhere?


He has some supporters in the party apparently but who would serve in his government through?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> These bits of 'news' about Johnson standing, where are they even coming from is it just him texting from sunlounger on a beach somewhere?



Steven Swinford, Political Editor of the Times. Fairly plausible he has direct contact with Johnson.

The Sun also reporting Johnson's now on the next plane back from the Dominican. I've no doubt it's on.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Johnson is not going to get anywhere near 100 nominations


Also, I suspect he isn't going to stand unless he's certain he'll get the 100, or whatever figure is set.


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 20, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Can we _not_ have discussion on several threads of whether men would fuck Liz Truss or not, thanks, Jesus fucking Christ.


Why not she's fucking, I mean fucked all of us


----------



## kabbes (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> It may not take 100 nominations



Literally made up out of her head


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Wonder if david camerson still goes 'oops' every time he thinks about the moment he decided to solve the tory party by holding the brexit vote?


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

If BJ in his own brain decides to do a video from his hotel room announcing he's coming back on the next flight to save the nation nobody in the party can stop him from doing that i suppose, even if he just does it for a laugh or out of spite to piss sunak off.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Literally made up out of her head


I do hope they have an online vote though. They are bound to fuck it up _profoundly_.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> If BJ in his own brain decides to do a video from his hotel room announcing he's coming back on the next flight to save the nation nobody in the party can stop him from doing that i suppose, even if he just does it for a laugh or out of spite to piss sunak off.


The one thing standing in his way is the privilege committee


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Wonder if david camerson still goes 'oops' every time he thinks about the moment he decided to solve the tory party by holding the brexit vote?



I expect he's too busy happily tootling about in his shed whistling little ditties to himself to care much.


----------



## Chz (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I expect he's too busy happily tootling about in his shed whistling little ditties to himself to care much.


I imagine Theresa May's just poured herself a whisky and is sitting in a comfy chair, chuckling quietly to herself about "bastards getting what they deserve".


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> The one thing standing in his way is the privilege committee



Two things, the other being Tory MPs.


----------



## quimcunx (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris is now firm favourite. He would have won the last leadership election by a landslide.
> 
> I mean. This is funny right??



Well I'm gibbering in a corner so I guess it must be.


----------



## gosub (Oct 20, 2022)

Beaten by a lettuce


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Two things, the other being Tory MPs.


Well from what I seen on the news he does have some supporters probably not many through


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 20, 2022)

Fuck's sake I go away and have some lunch and we've had another ten prime ministers

or

Fucks's sake I go away and have some lunch and find that i've travelled back in time and Boris is still PM.

_Bobby get out of the shower_


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 20, 2022)

According to this chart, more than 50% of fruit flies survive longer than 44 days.


----------



## pbsmooth (Oct 20, 2022)

I don't think it's funny. It's fucking disgraceful. Boris Johnson on another fucking holiday when he should be working and he thinks he can swan back to be PM again. They are stealing a living, taking the piss out of the electorate and laughing as they do it.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2022)

Apparently Alastair Cook has spent more time batting in 1st class cricket than Liz Truss spent as Prime Minister.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Apparently Alastair Cook has spent more time batting in 1st class cricket than Liz Truss spent as Prime Minister.


Most of the Englanc cricket team has more batting time than her


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Most of the Englanc cricket team has more batting time than her


She is batty though


----------



## maomao (Oct 20, 2022)

The ridiculous conspiracy theory a few months ago was that Johnson had backed Truss because she was so utterly incompetent that he'd have another shot at the leadership by Christmas.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> I don't think it's funny. It's fucking disgraceful. Boris Johnson on another fucking holiday when he should be working and he thinks he can swan back to be PM again. They are stealing a living, taking the piss out of the electorate and laughing as they do it.



and quite a proportion of the population would voted for the bastard again if given the fucking chance



*Shakes fist at the Sky


----------



## Sasaferrato (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> If BJ in his own brain decides to do a video from his hotel room announcing he's coming back on the next flight to save the nation nobody in the party can stop him from doing that i suppose, even if he just does it for a laugh or out of spite to piss sunak off.



A rule should be introduced whereby outgoing PMs are obliged to stand down as an MP within a month.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

Tory members want johnson back, Mordor way back on 9%


			https://twitter.com/YouGov?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1582327881224835072%7Ctwgr%5E36ecefaac1f242d803150ac2c2f64b7606cd28d5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Flive%2F2022%2Foct%2F20%2Fuk-politics-live-liz-truss-tories-turmoil-suella-braverman-resigns-fracking


----------



## bmd (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> A rule should be introduced whereby outgoing PMs are obliged to stand down as an MP within a month.



and then be fed to penguins


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Conservative Home has published a thing saying how Sunak is the only viable choice (a grownup etc) but also speculating that he may not want the job cos why would he, seeing as they're not going to win the next election anyway.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 20, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> Grant Shapps name is the running according to Sky News


Which one?


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Looks like it may be 100 votes required.


----------



## Flavour (Oct 20, 2022)

If Boris Johnson is going to run for leader again, well, I see no reason why Cameron and May shouldn't join. It'll be like celebrity big brother, where you know who all the inmates are already. And whose to stop Liz Truss herself having another crack at it? That'd be very meta. Very channel 4.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

Flavour said:


> If Boris Johnson is going to run for leader again, well, I see no reason why Cameron and May shouldn't join.



One good reason why Cameron can't join in, he's not an MP.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Flavour said:


> If Boris Johnson is going to run for leader again, well, I see no reason why Cameron and May shouldn't join. It'll be like celebrity big brother, where you know who all the inmates are already. And whose to stop Liz Truss herself having another crack at it? That'd be very meta. Very channel 4.



Which one will pleasure themselves with a wine bottle on the No. 10 lawn?


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

what if nobody gets 100 MPs to back them by monday, then what. Is it something to do with the king then?


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> what if nobody gets 100 nominations then what does the king just tell them to fuck off.


I like the idea of locking them all in until they come to an agreement, like a papal enclave.

E2A but the idea of making smoke is a bit risky, given the state of the palace of Westminster.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


>



The lettuce will be making a speech at 6pm hey? Their playing some sweet reggae tunes on that stream


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> The lettuce will be making a speech at 6pm hey? Their playing some sweet reggae tunes on that stream



Something something sweetleaf


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 20, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I like the idea of locking them all in until they come to an agreement, like a papal enclave.
> 
> E2A but the idea of making smoke is a bit risky, given the state of the palace of Westminster.



Excellent idea, lock them in a tightly sealed space and give them a charcoal burner.


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I like the idea of locking them all in until they come to an agreement, like a papal enclave.
> 
> E2A but the idea of making smoke is a bit risky, given the state of the palace of Westminster.


No food or drink and a couple of bottles of brandy/revolvers between them would sort things out sharpish.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

“Honking pudding”


----------



## Raheem (Oct 20, 2022)

Flavour said:


> If Boris Johnson is going to run for leader again, well, I see no reason why Cameron and May shouldn't join.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> One good reason why Cameron can't join in, he's not an MP.


That's why the 22 should institute a wild card!


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 20, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I like the idea of locking them all in until they come to an agreement, like a papal enclave.
> 
> E2A but the idea of making smoke is a bit risky, given the state of the palace of Westminster.


There is a perfect place, prison.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2022)

It'll be an online vote! What could possibly go wrong.

*if there is more than one candidate


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

I suspect that there will be only one candidate, and it will be Mordaunt.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

The drama may not be over yet


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

Hash4Cash said:


> There is a perfect place, prison.


Jigsaw's bathroom might be better


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Jigsaw's bathroom might be better


All handcuffed to the pipework with an available hacksaw and the corpse of Thatcher under a nearby blanket.


----------



## flypanam (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> “Honking pudding”



Have labour hired Robby Mook as election manager cos that tweet has Hilary dust all over it.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Which one will pleasure themselves with a wine bottle on the No. 10 lawn?


Do we really need this?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> what if nobody gets 100 MPs to back them by monday, then what. Is it something to do with the king then?


Nah, it's my turn I think, though it's a bit like jury service. I'm hoping my verruca gets me out of it.


----------



## planetgeli (Oct 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I suspect that there will be only one candidate, and it will be Mordaunt.



You're right about the first bit. It depends who wants to be/they want to, throw under a bus. At best they are looking at getting thrashed in May 2024 and probably ending their political career. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Sunak. God knows how much free coke they'll have to offer Johnson not to stand.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Maybe the conservative party really will implode, that seems just about possible now. Not because of any deep ideological differences between them but because the rats in sack have different ideas of what desperate measures might keep them from losing their seats next election.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 20, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> It'll be an online vote! What could possibly go wrong.
> 
> *if there is more than one candidate




Putin gets 104% of the vote.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 20, 2022)

Slim as it may be I am hoping for implosion. They are already flat out taking the piss.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I suspect that there will be only one candidate, and it will be Mordaunt.


Mordaunt Short you say?

To be fair after the tossed tofu-lettuce salad that we've just had running the country I reckon a pair of decent floor-standers would do a pretty good job.



At least they wouldn't sound so whiney.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

I doubt the tories will implode. They are likely to take a massive pounding at the next election, but they'll regroup. There aren't any alternative political movements that could take their place, and the UK's fptp electoral system favours inertia wrt political parties.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 20, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Slim as it may be I am hoping for implosion. They are already flat out taking the piss.


Fingers crossed for a 1993 Canadian style collapse. I'd personally rather it be a 1989 Romanian style one, but what happened to the Canadian Tories suddenly seems possible, so I'd be happy with that.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

I'd favour a 2010 Polish style wipeout tbh


----------



## teqniq (Oct 20, 2022)

I am not getting my hopes up. In the past these worthless scumbags have always stuck together when the going has gotten tough.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)

Basically Tory MPs think their party members are idiots.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Oct 20, 2022)

If Truss stands for her constituency at the next general election [doubtful] I hope someone dressed as a lettuce stands against her.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> Basically Tory MPs think their party members are idiots.



they are tbf


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> If Truss stands for her constituency at the next general election [doubtful] I hope someone dressed as a lettuce stands against her.


I'm sure Count Binface must have a suitable salad comrade


----------



## teqniq (Oct 20, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> If Truss stands for her constituency at the next general election [doubtful] I hope someone dressed as a lettuce stands against her.


Lettuce hope so she wilt look incredibly stupid


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Lettuce hope so she wilt look incredibly stupid


boom boom tish tish


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I doubt the tories will implode. They are likely to take a massive pounding at the next election, but they'll regroup. There aren't any alternative political movements that could take their place, and the UK's fptp electoral system favours inertia wrt political parties.


Probably. If most of the new tory MPs get binned off next election the party will probably regroup more easily. Might lose some of the headbangers to the Reform party or whichever and get back some of those it purged whilst busy trying to neutralise UKIP by impersonating it. Boring.


----------



## redcogs (Oct 20, 2022)

Gotta hand it to the brassnecked grandee's of the 22 committee.   Keeping the Tory membership as far away as possible from the decision of who will succeed Truss is a stroke of genius probably ensuring that  a market compliant 'safe' pair of hands  'come through'.  This is vile anti democratic  Casino politics, taking any panic measures to avoid a G Election.  But Tory troubles are not going away, and their continuing electoral dissolution looks assured.   The problem remains that effective working class representation  is being denied by Labour's  leaders (and the TUC) who are sitting on their hands, only paying hopeless lip service instead of acting. 

Failing to properly confront this government of spivs and billionaires  when they are on the ropes can only result in more austerity, longer queues for the NHS, accelerating poverty and homelessness as the repossessions begin.  Looks like another  chance for a serious change in direction is being squandered.  very frustrating.


----------



## strung out (Oct 20, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> You're right about the first bit. It depends who wants to be/they want to, throw under a bus. At best they are looking at getting thrashed in May 2024 and probably ending their political career. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Sunak. God knows how much free coke they'll have to offer Johnson not to stand.


You're optimistic. More like December 2024.


----------



## Serene (Oct 20, 2022)

This is what happens when you mess with the anti-growth coalition.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 20, 2022)

strung out said:


> You're optimistic. More like December 2024.


What they're hoping for is the big one with China so they can postpone the election for the duration


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Fingers crossed for a 1993 Canadian style collapse. I'd personally rather it be a 1989 Romanian style one, but what happened to the Canadian Tories suddenly seems possible, so I'd be happy with that.



 Not really possible imo, in Canada in 1993 there were other parties to take up the slack, but I can’t see the LibDems or SNP hoovering up Tory votes.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

i've just read this tweet a few times and still don't get it.




If he hasn't done a typo, he's saying that they reckon that the membership (who love Johnson and just voted Truss in) will be like 'oh i'd better choose the one that the majority of MPs went for, because doing otherwise would be inherently unstable and unworkable obvs'.  That is completely mad


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

that is what he's saying.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

though there's a good chance there won't be a vote with the 100 threshold. and definitely not one with Boris Johnson on the ticket


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Not really possible imo, in Canada in 1993 there were other parties to take up the slack, but I can’t see the LibDems or SNP hoovering up Tory votes.


There are many Conservative seats that seem like a much better fit for the Lib Dems than what the Tories have become, especially in the south. I can't see the Tories keeping a single seat in Scotland, and probably Wales too. If Westminster goes Labour as it already has in local terms, and Kensington returns to Labour, then there are only really two or three other seats in Greater London the Cons would hold. At that point, you can see a path opening up to seriously finish them off in their current format. However, you may be sadly right that we'll never be rid of them.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

The indicative vote is so that the runner-up candidate hopefully withdraws. Not really about members.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The indicative vote is so that the runner-up candidate hopefully withdraws. Not really about members.


why would they hopefully withdraw though, if they thought the members would choose them (and if they were mad enough to want the job in the first place)


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Anyway it all makes it more likely to be Mourdant next doesn't it, if the MPs have to pick someone who the members don't actively hate.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> why would they hopefully withdraw though, if they thought the members would choose them (and if they were mad enough to want the job in the first place)


because Tories are here to serve the nation and doing whats best for the general good is always firstmost in their mind


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> Anyway it all makes it more likely to be Mourdant next doesn't it, if the MPs know they have to choose someone who the members don't actively hate.



Don't know much about her. But at least she seems to be able to string a coherent sentence together. Which is more than the former PM could manage. That's the bar that's been set.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Don't know much about her.


That's it, that's her appeal, nobody hates her because nobody knows who she is.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> That's it, that's her appeal, nobody hates her because nobody knows who she is.



She does have a cool name. That alone qualifies her as a leading contender to be PM of our great country right now.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

kinda at a lost now 


what am i going to watch on telly tonight after the last few days


----------



## teqniq (Oct 20, 2022)

Heh. He's not wrong either:


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> Anyway it all makes it more likely to be Mourdant next doesn't it, if the MPs have to pick someone who the members don't actively hate.


Unless something very unexpected happens between now and Monday, there's only Sunak, Morduant and Wallace who have a chance of reaching the threshold. But I think there's also a good chance of only Sunak managing a hundred in the first round, in which case he's in without a vote


----------



## geminisnake (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> That's it, that's her appeal, nobody hates her because nobody knows who she is.


Think you'll find many politically aware folk know who she is and many Scots already hate, she's made some damaging comments.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> i've just read this tweet a few times and still don't get it.
> View attachment 348010
> 
> If he hasn't done a typo, he's saying that they reckon that the membership (who love Johnson and just voted Truss in) will be like 'oh i'd better choose the one that the majority of MPs went for, because doing otherwise would be inherently unstable and unworkable obvs'.  That is completely mad



It's not that mad, as a Tory member I know said, the membership should never have a vote for the leader, at least whilst they are actually in government, there's only about 180k members, whereas millions voted for Tory MPs to represent them in parliament, and therefore should select their leader.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 20, 2022)

There's only one sure way to stop all these Leadership challenges. Sir Graham Brady for PM.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

Even the DM comments section half of it is people / bots saying GENeRAL ELEctIOn Now. The idea that we live in a reasonably functional democracy feels like it's being exposed as a sham in a way that i've never seen before. Maybe thats good.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's not that mad, as a Tory member I know said, the membership should never have a vote for the leader, at least whilst they are actually in government, there's only about 180k members, whereas millions voted for Tory MPs to represent them in parliament, and therefore should select their leader.


The mad bit is the idea that the membership will get in line & choose whoever the MPs chose, instead of who they themselves like more. The idea that they'd do so in order to ensure that the PM can actually govern, that's the mad bit, why would they expect the membership to think like that.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

Indeliblelink said:


> If Truss stands for her constituency at the next general election [doubtful] I hope someone dressed as a lettuce stands against her.


Two lettuces - one leaf, one romaine


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 20, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Two lettuces - one leaf, one romaine


A little gem


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> kinda at a lost now
> 
> 
> what am i going to watch on telly tonight after the last few days


Its been a bit entertaining, I have a feeling it is costing us a lot more than a £10 a month netflix subscription though so not great value


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> The mad bit is the idea that the membership will get in line & choose whoever the MPs chose, instead of who they themselves like more. The idea that they'd do so in order to ensure that the PM can actually govern, that's the mad bit, why would they expect the membership to think like that.



But, it's not that mad, we have witnessed party members picking leaders that don't have support from their party's MPs, and the chaos it causes, both with Truss & Corbyn. 

I think the Tory membership has learnt that lesson.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> Its been a bit entertaining, I have a feeling it is costing us a lot more than a £10 a month netflix subscription though so not great value



aye no worth the sort series length


we should get a movie at least


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> But, it's not that mad, we have witnessed party members picking leaders that don't have support from their party's MPs, and the chaos it causes, both with Truss & Corbyn.
> 
> I think the Tory membership has learnt that lesson.


Interesting that you think so. When do you think they learned this, last night?


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> But, it's not that mad, we have witnessed party members picking leaders that don't have support from their party's MPs, and the chaos it causes, both with Truss & Corbyn.
> 
> I think the Tory membership has learnt that lesson.


If another left wing candidate somehow was ever up for nomination in the labour party I'd def vote for them if there was any way I could do. I dont see any reason why the Tory party members would be any different. It is clearly totally undemocratic if members are expected to just tow the line of whatever the current mob in charge of a party says.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> Interesting that you think so. When do you think they learned this, last night?



It's more interesting that that is what I am hearing from two Tory members, from what the conversation is in the local party.

Although, TBF, they do blame BJ for them losing in last year's borough council election, which went Labour for the first time ever in its history.


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

I wouldn't extrapolate from 2 people who you talked to.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's more interesting that that is what I am hearing from two Tory members, from what the conversation in the local party.
> 
> Although, TBF, they do blame BJ for them losing in last year's borough council election, which went Labour for the first time ever in its history.


These tory members you're hearing from, they say they've seen the error of their ways and plan to vote for whoever the majority of MPs choose now?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 20, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> The indicative vote is so that the runner-up candidate hopefully withdraws. Not really about members.



Same is true of the high bar for nominations. The idea is presumably that only one candidate (likely Sunak) will qualify. Bit there's no way all the fringe joke candidates will get the memo and step aside, and if only one puts themselves in the frame that one will likely go to the members' vote and win. I can actually see Badenoch somehow winning it via a bodged coronation of Sunak.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> I wouldn't extrapolate from 2 people who you talked to.



Two people feeding back the mood of the local party, from the conversations going on in the bar at the local Tory club.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> These two tory members you're hearing from, they say they've seen the error of their ways and plan to vote for whoever the majority of MPs choose now?



Neither of the two voted for Truss, they both did for BJ, and regret it.


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Two people feeding back the mood of the local party, from the conversations going on in the bar at the local Tory club.


That's about as meaningful as listening to random people on here predicting who's going to be pm. They and we do not have a clue.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

My nearest little town has a tory club, big decrepit victorian building in the middle of the high street. Would love to pop in there this rainy dark eve, just half a pint and see what the vibe is. Did enquire and you need to be invited though, by a member.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> That's about as meaningful as listening to random people on here predicting who's going to be pm. They and we do not have a clue.



I never said they know who's going to be the new PM, this is a strawman.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Neither of the two voted for Truss, they both did for BJ, and regret it.


But they are all now saying 'we'd better vote for whoever the majority of MPs choose cos otherwise we get an inevitably dysfunctional government', thats what you're saying?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> My nearest little town has a tory club, big decrepit victorian building in the middle of the high street. Would love to pop in there this rainy dark eve, just half a pint and see what the vibe is. Did enquire and you need to be invited though, by a member.



Or join as a member, that's how private clubs work, it's a condition of their drink licence.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

drinking in a Tory bar 

must be like drink in a chelsea pub

fuck that shite


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Or join as a member, that's how private clubs work, it's a condition of their drink licence.


Yeah no, I'll be quite happy when it turns into a tesco metro or an overpriced cakeshop.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> But they are all now saying 'we'd better vote for whoever the majority of MPs choose cos otherwise we get an inevitably dysfunctional government', thats what you're saying?



Yes, they have had enough, they just want the MPs to sort it out and show leadership.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> That's about as meaningful as listening to random people on here predicting who's going to be pm. They and we do not have a clue.


I dunno, we can look at the support the likely candidates got a few weeks ago and make a reasonably informed prediction can't we? It's the same Tory MPs choosing. You can add shit up and see who's likely to get over 100 without even needing a calculator.


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I never said they know who's going to be the new PM, this is a strawman.


I know you didn't (well I haven't read thread, but haven't read you predict that). I was saying it was a similar kind of speculation based on nothing tho


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> I dunno, we can look at the support the likely candidates got a few weeks ago and make a reasonably informed prediction can't we? It's the same Tory MPs choosing. You can add shit up and see who's likely to get over 100 without even needing a calculator.



unless Bojo is serious about standing he is not and is to derisive

its  a distraction before they crown Sunak


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> But they are all now saying 'we'd better vote for whoever the majority of MPs choose cos otherwise we get an inevitably dysfunctional government', thats what you're saying?


the polling does suggest they mostly want the MPs to sort it out among themselves


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> I dunno, we can look at the support the likely candidates got a few weeks ago and make a reasonably informed prediction can't we? It's the same Tory MPs choosing. You can add shit up and see who's likely to get over 100 without even needing a calculator.


I guess I just dont like the game aspect of it, it is not fun to me and seems like a waste of energy.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> I know you didn't (well I haven't read thread, but haven't read you predict that). I was saying it was a similar kind of speculation based on nothing tho



Hey, I am just introducing the mood of the local Tories here, I think it's interesting to know what they are thinking at grassroot level, I find that useful in a better understanding of the overall situation. 

People can take that or leave it.


----------



## contadino (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> I think the Tory membership has learnt that lesson.


Tories believe that people learn from them, not that they need to learn from others.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> the polling does suggest they mostly want the MPs to sort it out among themselves
> 
> View attachment 348017


Desperation in bar charts. Apologies cupid_stunt. i couldnt believe it but seems the Worthing Tory Club is in tune with the general despair, don't ask us just sort it out we give up.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> I guess I just dont like the game aspect of it, it is not fun to me and seems like a waste of energy.



there are no purer joys in the world than being right on the internet, what's wrong with you?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> Desperation in bar charts. Apologies cupid_stunt. i couldnt believe it but seems the Worthing Tory Club is in tune with the general despair, don't ask us just sort it out we give up.



It's why I like talking to these guys, I like to know what the buggers are upto.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

I somehow thought they the membership were madder and less broken in spirit than that. 60% of them saying fuck any figleaf of democracy leave us in peace to pay our £25 a year just stick someone in there whoever we don't care. That's quite sad.


----------



## Sue (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> I somehow thought they the membership were madder and less broken in spirit than that. 60% of them saying fuck any figleaf of democracy leave us in peace to pay our £25 a year just stick someone in there whoever we don't care. That's quite sad.


Given how batshit they are, it's not sad for the rest of us.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> I somehow thought they the membership were madder and less broken in spirit than that. 60% of them saying fuck any figleaf of democracy leave us in peace to pay our £25 a year just stick someone in there whoever we don't care. That's quite sad.



That's not how it works, they chose their local candidate to represent them in parliament, that's why they have decided their MPs are in a better position to pick their leader, because, err, they know these people, they work with them on a daily bias, and will need to work with them as a leader, the membership does not.  

That's the whole idea of a parliamentary system.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's not how it works, they chose their local candidate to represent them in parliament, that's why they have decided their MPs are in a better position to pick their leader, because, err, they know these people, they work with them on a daily bias, and will need to work with them as a leader, the membership does not.
> 
> That's the whole idea of a parliamentary system.


Thanks for that.
So why would you ever have a members vote and how the hell did we get Liz then, instead of Sunak, the MPs choice.

Oh yeah you just explained that they the members only learned their lesson in humility and the parliamentary system sometime during her premiership, maybe yesterday.


----------



## redcogs (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> My nearest little town has a tory club, big decrepit victorian building in the middle of the high street. Would love to pop in there this rainy dark eve, just half a pint and see what the vibe is. Did enquire and you need to be invited though, by a member.


years ago (1970s)  i  played darts for my local pub team (The Blacksmiths Arms)  against a Conservative Club side, at their venue.  Initially i felt like a class traitor , and wanted to avoid going, but i was captain so couldn't slide out easily.  It wasn't too bad in the end because their team consisted mainly of people  who were  members of the Con Club only for geographic convenience and the cheap beer along with the strange early opening times.  Most of their team were known to me, and were normally Labour voting union members!  The worst thing about the experience was the  nausiating portrait of the queen and a photo of Ted Heath. i'd a good night, several pints of Brew 10, and no fall outs.  It is still satisfying to recall that our team won .


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's not how it works, they chose their local candidate to represent them in parliament, that's why they have decided their MPs are in a better position to pick their leader, because, err, they know these people, they work with them on a daily bias, and will need to work with them as a leader, the membership does not.
> 
> That's the whole idea of a parliamentary system.


Has to be said the times the party leader has been chosen by the MPs they chose real shit too. Maybe the whole thing isn't fit for purpose.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> the polling does suggest they mostly want the MPs to sort it out among themselves
> 
> View attachment 348017


looking at it again, that poll seems to be kind of nonsense.
It doesn't add up at all that they'd be so keen on being left out of the process but also at same time don't want the 2nd placed candidate to just drop out. 
I think we're seeing sense where there isn't any like when you see faces in clouds, to humanise the mindless void of it all.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 20, 2022)

I just hope to fuck they dont pick Ben Wallace,  I really dont want to win the bet I placed 2 days ago


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

Shit got real


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 20, 2022)

if we don't an election

who ever ends up the pm if its a tory and the country accepts years of austerity

because tory members cannot be trusted to select a pm is a fucking loon

but Corbyn


----------



## quimcunx (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> One good reason why Cameron can't join in, he's not an MP.



Does that even matter any more. Let him.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2022)

bimble said:


> looking at it again, that poll seems to be kind of nonsense.
> It doesn't add up at all that they'd be so keen on being left out of the process but also at same time don't want the 2nd placed candidate to just drop out.
> I think we're seeing sense where there isn't any like when you see faces in clouds, to humanise the mindless void of it all.


The _second place candidate drops out_ option is unpopular because it's describing how May became leader, and large parts of the party are still residually traumatised by May's electoral collapse in 2017 - if you'll cast your mind back a few days to the last tory leadership election, the same tory bores who're pomping about the primacy of MPs in a parliamentary system were equally insistent that a full leadership election campaign was required, as the focus of the campaign would quickly expose any weak candidates, which hadn't happened with May. They even made the candidates commit to going the full course and promise not to drop out iirc. While we can see now that a lack of scrutiny by the members wasn't the problem after all, they still have a knee-jerk reaction to it, I reckon. 

The top option is just a fantasy anyway though: how do they imagine a unity candidate might be decided on, except through some sort of internal process in the PCP, with the MPs with lower amounts of support dropping out? How else could this kind of thing be agreed within any party, let alone this party, this week? How do they imagine politics actually works?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

quimcunx said:


> Does that even matter any more. Let him.


Any bookies offering decent odds on Captain Tom?


----------



## two sheds (Oct 20, 2022)

redcogs said:


> darts ... nausiating portrait of the queen and a photo of Ted Heath.


----------



## bimble (Oct 20, 2022)

killer b said:


> The _second place candidate drops out_ option is unpopular because it's describing how May became leader, and large parts of the party are still residually traumatised by May's electoral collapse in 2017 - if you'll cast your mind back a few days to the last tory leadership election, the same tory bores who're pomping about the primacy of MPs in a parliamentary system were equally insistent that a full leadership election campaign was required, as the focus of the campaign would quickly expose any weak candidates, which hadn't happened with May. They even made the candidates commit to going the full course and promise not to drop out iirc. While we can see now that a lack of scrutiny by the members wasn't the problem after all, they still have a knee-jerk reaction to it, I reckon.
> 
> The top option is just a fantasy anyway though: how do they imagine a unity candidate might be decided on, except through some sort of internal process in the PCP, with the MPs with lower amounts of support dropping out? How else could this kind of thing be agreed within any party, let alone this party, this week? How do they imagine politics actually works?


Yep. That poll of Tory members basically just says the general mood is it hurts make it go away. It doesn’t say they’ve realised they need to stand by the MPs choice because otherwise more bad things will happen.


----------



## xenon (Oct 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> drinking in a Tory bar
> 
> must be like drink in a chelsea pub
> 
> fuck that shite



Nah, usually just full of old gimmers and people there to do the quiz IME.

I went with my sister to one once. She used to be a SWPer...


----------



## emanymton (Oct 20, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Heh. He's not wrong either:



They had Trump for 4 years, they've no room to talk.


----------



## petee (Oct 20, 2022)

emanymton said:


> They had Trump for 4 years, they've no room to talk.


 jim cramer is a blowhard and if he's right about something it's stopped clock etc.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## platinumsage (Oct 20, 2022)

xenon said:


> Nah, usually just full of old gimmers and people there to do the quiz IME.
> 
> I went with my sister to one once. She used to be a SWPer...



You can join a Conservative Club but opt out of the political element of the membership fee. I think it’s like three quid a year or something.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 20, 2022)

I feel like the time has come to put Britain to bed. It's an abusive situation, no longer working on any level, going from bad to worse each time a new development occurs. The queens funeral felt like the requiem for the UK - the previous era is over. Time for Scottish independence, Irish unification, and for England & Wales to enter a very serious period of no holds barred reflection about what it actually wants the nationstate to be, and what citizenship within it looks like, and how that can realistically be delivered.


----------



## Mezzer (Oct 20, 2022)

All down to anti-Brexiteers apparently, according to The Telegraph.  It's always someone else's fault isn't it?


			archive.ph


----------



## TopCat (Oct 20, 2022)

I bet the members would want Boris more than anyone else.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 20, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I feel like the time has come to put Britain to bed. It's an abusive situation, no longer working on any level, going from bad to worse each time a new development occurs. The queens funeral felt like the requiem for the UK - the previous era is over. Time for Scottish independence, Irish unification, and for England & Wales to enter a very serious period of no holds barred reflection about what it actually wants the nationstate to be, and what citizenship within it looks like, and how that can realistically be delivered.


Yes everything will be much easier to sort out once the Scotland and northern Ireland are got shot of - it's time they stop holding england and wales back from doing no holds barred reflection.


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 20, 2022)




----------



## Ming (Oct 20, 2022)

Weller said:


> I stopped watching until recently  and  if they were not doing such damage it has been fun watching this shiftiest lot ever kill their party for a decade or more hopefully
> I dont think we have seen how weird and shit she is or this lot really are yet
> 
> 
> View attachment 347917


They’re like the evil Carry On team from an alternative antimatter universe.


----------



## Ming (Oct 20, 2022)

andysays said:


> "Oh, yes it was!"
> 
> "Oh, no it wasn't!"
> 
> Panto season has started early this year


He’s behind you!!!! (Graham Brady with a knife)


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He has to win enough votes from MPs first. That's the hurdle for Johnson, and it's a big one.




They may agree to give him the nomination purely because he’d win a GE. Fuck everything else.

And he’d be smarter this time and allow some actual governance and politicking to be done by others. He’s brash and brazen enough to muscle through the Truss mess.

And it gives them options for the GE. He’d win again if it’s sooner, or he /they can claim he has the mandate, he has the mandate, and delay going to the country til the last possible moment.




This is perfect for Johnson. It fulfils his “I am Churchill” fantasy (being ousted and then returning). He’ll work very hard to make it happen.



I hope I’m wrong.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 20, 2022)

So, if they have to get 100 nominations and if 2 or even 3 stand, there's a good chance 2 will make it to a members vote. Anything could happen, but the members are probably more likely to go for a loon (a poll of members even had johnson as their favourite earlier today).  But if 5 or so stand, that reduces the chances of anyone other than sunak getting 100.  So... the change in the rules could well have an impact on the result.


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Plus he's still being investigated by the Privileges Committee.




Such things can be negotiated away when other things are more convenient


----------



## story (Oct 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> They don't matter, there's no way the MPs will let Johnson be in the final two.




They will if he’ll win a GE  for them


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> He’ll work very hard


Seems unlikely


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2022)

story said:


> They will if he’ll win a GE  for them


I think this is a bit of a tory myth, though, like the Republicans' Trump myth. Johnson won in 2019 in a particular set of circumstances, but he was very personally unpopular when he was ousted a few months ago and the tories were well behind in the polls at that time. I don't see that changing and I don't see Johnson winning the next GE. And I think most tory MPs don't see it either. Like Trump, he's very popular among a hard core, but widely despised outside it including by many on his own side.


----------



## story (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> Unless something very unexpected happens between now and Monday, there's only Sunak, Morduant and Wallace who have a chance of reaching the threshold. But I think there's also a good chance of only Sunak managing a hundred in the first round, in which case he's in without a vote




But that would be even less democratic than the PM being elected by Tory members.


----------



## story (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think this is a bit of a tory myth, though, like the Republicans' Trump myth. Johnson won in 2019 in a particular set of circumstances, but he was very personally unpopular when he was ousted a few months ago and the tories were well behind in the polls at that time. I don't see that changing and I don't see Johnson winning the next GE. And I think most tory MPs don't see it either. Like Trump, he's very popular among a hard core, but widely despised outside it including by many on his own side.




Hopefully.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 21, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Yes everything will be much easier to sort out once the Scotland and northern Ireland are got shot of - it's time they stop holding england and wales back from doing no holds barred reflection.


That doesn't sound very generous or positive at all. I'd say it is definitely Scotland and Northern Ireland that are being held back in a failing Britain. I think it's sadly true that England will never fully examine itself until it's forced to, until it's left alone with itself, to finally realise how it got there.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

story said:


> But that would be even less democratic than the PM being elected by Tory members.


There was nothing democratic about the PM being elected by Tory members. In some ways an anointment by Tory MPs is more democratic as those MPs were elected in a general election. Tory members are just wankers who pay their subs. Pay-to-vote is not democracy.


----------



## story (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There was nothing democratic about the PM being elected by Tory members. In some ways an anointment by Tory MPs is more democratic as those MPs were elected in a general election. Tory members are just wankers who pay their subs. Pay-to-vote is not democracy.




Well yeah. I said somewhere (during the Truss era) that I found it shocking that such a small number of votes put her in top spot. Not democracy.

I get what you say about a coronation by MPs is kinda more democratic but disagree. That GE was a long long time ago, in the before times.

Too many recent PMs are not being properly elected. May wasn’t elected. Truss wasn’t elected. This next one won’t be elected.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Oct 21, 2022)

What did Lenin call it? Parliamentary cretinism, that's right.  Anyway, for my as usual iconoclastic take on the Truss Defenestration see here: Enjoy!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

Oh sure, we're a long way past any kind of democratic mandate. But this summer's tory election campaign and vote were a complete mockery of democracy. A total disgrace. The system is supposed to be that you are elected on a manifesto and you are judged by that. In the past, this has been semi-formally recognised with the Lords refraining from objecting to manifesto pledges.

Those elected on that manifesto may choose to change the leader, but the tories nakedly dumped their manifesto in the summer with different candidates promising different legislative programmes. There should never be any kind of public contest for government for the sake of a restricted electorate.


----------



## Ming (Oct 21, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> Shapps to resign at 11.



Apologies for some bad Asian stereotypes. 

Quote number two.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

God help me, but Mad Nads Dorries actually speaks sense when she calls for a general election as the tories have lost their mandate. She just wants her Boris back, but she's stumbled upon a truth along her crazy path.


----------



## Ted Striker (Oct 21, 2022)

I don't get why Sunak hasn't declared his interest, yet? They've (et Mordaunt) allowed for much media narrative to be all about Johnson in these early stages


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> I don't get why Sunak hasn't declared his interest, yet? They've (et Mordaunt) allowed for much media narrative to be all about Johnson in these early stages


He doesn't have to say anything. He has the trump card that he predicted what would happen with Trussonomics. Makes sense to me that he doesn't say anything in public right now. Johnson is reported to be trying to reach out to him. So it's not really all about Johnson. Johnson himself thinks that it's quite a lot about Sunak.


----------



## story (Oct 21, 2022)

Ted Striker said:


> I don't get why Sunak hasn't declared his interest, yet? They've (et Mordaunt) allowed for much media narrative to be all about Johnson in these early stages




If a week is a long time in politics, the weekend following an abdication is more than enough time to sit back and enjoy what the tide washes up.

Sunak has the luxury of a full weekday tomorrow and then two clear days over the weekend to get his ducks in a row, should he want to. A busy time for sure but he’s holding a strong hand. He can afford to bide. No hurry, no worry.


----------



## spring-peeper (Oct 21, 2022)

This is how Canada sees your politics.









						Why was Truss' tenure so short -- and now what?
					

British Prime Minister Liz Truss took office last month with hopes and promises of reinvigorating the British economy and putting it on the path to long-term success.




					www.ctvnews.ca
				




It ends with this


----------



## Ming (Oct 21, 2022)

spring-peeper said:


> This is how Canada sees your politics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dignity…always dignity…


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There was nothing democratic about the PM being elected by Tory members. In some ways an anointment by Tory MPs is more democratic as those MPs were elected in a general election. Tory members are just wankers who pay their subs. Pay-to-vote is not democracy.


Leaving aside the vomiting inducing idea of MPs as some sort of guardians of democracy - I don't get how this is consistent with the politics you claim you want.

CS favours this sort of 'parliamentary sovereignty' because it aligns with their liberal politics, it serves to block any Corbyn type candidate. Sensible Starmer vs sensible Sunk. But don't you want some sort of socialist/social democratic party? Raising MPs as experts who's decisions are sovereign leads to the sort of crap that Italy saw with the imposition of technocratic PMs.  

And as for the mandate argument, how is that supposed to work with PR which you also want? PR will naturally tend to lead to coalition governments where parties are required to drop parts of their manifesto.
Indeed how does it work with MPs as the gatekeepers - if (in this case) tory MPs have lost their mandate by supporting a set of policies that was not in their last manifesto, why are they to be the arbiters of who should lead the party? 

(Nevermind that mandate argument is not credible, people have never voted based solely on manifesto's)


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

Wilf said:


> So, if they have to get 100 nominations and if 2 or even 3 stand, there's a good chance 2 will make it to a members vote. Anything could happen, but the members are probably more likely to go for a loon (a poll of members even had johnson as their favourite earlier today).  But if 5 or so stand, that reduces the chances of anyone other than sunak getting 100.  So... the change in the rules could well have an impact on the result.


I'm not certain the membership would vote loon this time time. They tried that and look how well it went. Enough might have been burnt by the experience that the more "sensible" candidate would win this time. Still the party machine is going to try real hard to not have to put that to the test.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm not certain the membership would vote loon this time time. They tried that and look how well it went. Enough might have been burnt by the experience that the more "sensible" candidate would win this time. Still the party machine is going to try real hard to not have to put that to the test.



Lol


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> I'm not certain the membership would vote loon this time time. They tried that and look how well it went.



If they were capable of evidence-based thinking, they wouldn't be tories.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

I predict one of Mordaunt, Sunak and Johnson won’t run.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If they were capable of evidence-based thinking, they wouldn't be tories.


There is that


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 21, 2022)

The country is in such deep shit I have to believe there will be a GE very soon.All the Tories can offer is more fiddling whilst Rome burns


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I predict one of Mordaunt, Sunak and Johnson won’t run.



I want to see which loon ignores the memo about the planned stitch-up and enters the contest, fucking the whole thing up.


----------



## andysays (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> I want to see which loon ignores the memo about the planned stitch-up and enters the contest, fucking the whole thing up.


The "planned stitch up" isn't about ensuring any particular candidate wins, it's about preventing anyone who can't get 100 MPs to nominate them actually enter the contest.

That in itself pretty much rules out any "loons", unless you're suggesting any of them can suddenly pull together significantly more supporters than they managed to attract a few months ago.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 21, 2022)

unless some MPs start voting for two candidates


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

andysays said:


> The "planned stitch up" isn't about ensuring any particular candidate wins, it's about preventing anyone who can't get 100 MPs to nominate them actually enter the contest.
> 
> That in itself pretty much rules out any "loons", unless you're suggesting any of them can suddenly pull together significantly more supporters than they managed to attract a few months ago.


From the July 2022 contest, first round votes for Truss + Badenoch + Braverman = 122. Should be enough to get someone swivel-eyed on the ballot if they manage to cooperate.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 21, 2022)

We went to the pub last night to celebrate, and I've got to say the Daily Star has played a blinder with their on running lettuce joke, everyone was talking about it, there was even a discussion as to if the lettuce could win against Larry the Downing Street cat. 



That last line ^^^ is brilliant. 

Just to rub salt into the wounds, they even projected the lettuce onto the side of parliament last night.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> We went to the pub last night to celebrate, and I've got to say the Daily Star has played a blinder with their on running lettuce joke, everyone was talking about it, there was even a discussion as to if the lettuce could win against Larry the Downing Street cat.
> 
> View attachment 348063
> 
> ...


That lettuce looks a good deal like fabricant


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> If they were capable of evidence-based thinking, they wouldn't be tories.


That's the best explanation so far for how come they're apparently willing to bet that at some point in the last week the membership's sobered up & learned the error of its ways.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> From the July 2022 contest, first round votes for Truss + Badenoch + Braverman = 122. Should be enough to get someone swivel-eyed on the ballot if they manage to cooperate.



Braverman is a busted flush thanks to the email thing. Badenoch though...


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> That's the best explanation so far for how come they're apparently willing to bet that at some point in the last week the membership's sobered up & learned the error of its ways.


It's just people desperately scrambling for reasons the worst won't happen.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Conservative Home says that sunak's got the most declared backers, with Johnson 2nd and Mordant way behind. But that's probably out of date now.


----------



## andysays (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> From the July 2022 contest, first round votes for Truss + Badenoch + Braverman = 122. Should be enough to get someone swivel-eyed on the ballot if they manage to cooperate.


True, though it's a pretty big if, IMO. 

But if eg Badenoch can muster 100+ votes by Monday, they're certainly in with a chance.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

Tim Montgomerie of Conservative Home reckons Johnson could get 'close to 140' nominations:









						Flurry of support gives Sunak close to 90 backers – as it happened
					

Late evening declarations from Hancock, Dowden, Ellwood and Tugendhat for former chancellor




					www.theguardian.com
				




He obviously hasn't read Urban this morning.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

andysays said:


> True, though it's a pretty big if, IMO.
> 
> But if eg Badenoch can muster 100+ votes by Monday, they're certainly in with a chance.


No chance of 100 with Johson in the mix.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

They must know that Johnson comming back just makes them look even more ridiculous? Right? RIGHT??


----------



## ska invita (Oct 21, 2022)

Larry O'Hara said:


> Anyway, for my as usual iconoclastic take on the Truss Defenestration see here: Enjoy!


Do you think what has just happened was a coup? I dont think anywhere to the degree you make out: i think it was mainly weak and incompetent leadership with little support in the party and crucially even less support in the country <no one voted for her and polls swung drastically against her sharpish to wipe out levels which is what really set panic amongst Tory MPs. You need support to get things done in politics. Her power was a house of  cards and it was less a coup and more of a collapse.

Do you think the reported near collapse of  pension funds was artificially manipulated to bring her down, or do you think it was a to be expected outcome (others predicted similiar if Truss went ahead with her plans). ?

Also what do you think Brexit has got to do with this? "much of the ruling class never supported it and will try any trick in the book (and a few outside it) to reverse it." How is a supposed coup against Truss going to "reverse Brexit"? Other than maybe some tribalisms Brexit itself has nothing to do with any of this, other than in the minds of Brexit campists.

Also I dont understand this objection " And of course the media/opposition are again calling for a General Election: yet to have one would only underline our gradual drift to a Presidential (not Party) system of government." <as LBJ spells out above, the system is meant to be you have a party with a manifesto and that is voted for. Truss threw away the manifesto and made up her own shit and tried to ram it through with the majority she inherited from Johnson. Its was a massive abuse of the little democracy we have in the UK, and I cant see why anyone would object to an election.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

Looks like PeoplePolling might have some Urbz respondents! 😂



C***S 👍


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Looks like PeoplePolling might have some Urbz respondents! 😂
> 
> 
> 
> C***S 👍



I'm confused by p**s. It can only be 'piss' right? That's a bit of a random swearword to form part of an opinion on the government.


----------



## MrSki (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I'm confused by p**s. It can only be 'piss' right? That's a bit of a random swearword to form part of an opinion on the government.


piss poor?


----------



## Supine (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I'm confused by p**s. It can only be 'piss' right? That's a bit of a random swearword to form part of an opinion on the government.



It’s pretty amazing cunts made it into the word cloud though


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

MrSki said:


> piss poor?


Thanks. That would have bothered me for hours.


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

The idea that's now getting airtime, that Johnson is extending an olive branch to Sunak, is significant imo. Not so much that Johnson would give Sunak a cabinet post - I don't think Johnson will get that far. But it means that Johnson's endorsement could win over some of the more recalcitrant 'Sunak is a backstabber' members. If Johnson can forgive him, so might some of them.

Possibly.

The whole thing's mad. The longer we have to wait for a GE the worse the shambles we're in.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Any bookies offering decent odds on Captain Tom?


What the Tories need is one of those chairs that Graham Norton has on his show. They could all take turns being leader of the government and if it looks like this one's getting a bit shit Michael Gove (Dressed in a jesters outfit) could pull the leaver.

Something like this...


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Daily Mail is telling its readers that "As of last night, Johnson had the support of 50 MPs, while Mr Sunak counted 39, and Penny Mordaunt was on 17". Its like they want him back, at the DM. 
Maybe it really will happen BJ2.  I cant see it but then i'm always wrong usually by being too optimistic.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> They must know that Johnson comming back just makes them look even more ridiculous? Right? RIGHT??



It would be funny if he did end as PM, then the standards committee completes their investigation, finds him guilty of misleading parliament, suspends him, which would result in a recall petition and a by election, which he would lose.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I'm confused by p**s. It can only be 'piss' right? That's a bit of a random swearword to form part of an opinion on the government.


see also "brewery"


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It would be funny if he did end as PM, then the standards committee completes their investigation, finds him guilty of misleading parliament, suspends him, which would result in a recall petition and a by election, which he would lose.


But say it's  not a bye election and he returns to the house of commons?


----------



## Spandex (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Looks like PeoplePolling might have some Urbz respondents! 😂
> 
> 
> 
> C***S 👍



t***s

Is Truss officially a swear word now?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> Daily Mail is telling its readers that "As of last night, Johnson had the support of 50 MPs, while Mr Sunak counted 39, and Penny Mordaunt was on 17". Its like they want him back, at the DM.
> Maybe it really will happen BJ2.  I cant see it but then i'm always wrong usually by being too optimistic.


Pessimists are never disappointed


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

The speculation discussion here is split between this thread and 








						Tory Leadership contest 2022
					

And they're off...Nads for PM?




					www.urban75.net


----------



## tommers (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I'm confused by p**s. It can only be 'piss' right? That's a bit of a random swearword to form part of an opinion on the government.


Piss up in a brewery


----------



## ska invita (Oct 21, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I'd say it is definitely Scotland and Northern Ireland that are being held back in a failing Britain. I think it's sadly true that England will never fully examine itself until it's forced to, until it's left alone with itself, to finally realise how it got there.


I agree, but have to ask who is it within the country who needs to stop and evaluate...its not all of England, its certain English people, people with a solid 'traditional' or status quo mind set. The union is a big part of that status quo so a break up of the union will inevitably force them to have a reevaluation of some core ideas about whats what. It will also force a lot of state structures to be rewritten.

I think the big problem we have in Britain is its a state with centuries old establishments and so many systems and power structures are deeply set in stone. There's a massive need for things to be done differently, but change is blocked by that traditionalism, political and to a lesser extent cultural. 

Since every attempt at meaningful reforms gets shut down by those structures its an effective avenue to try and smash up the edifices of the status quo. A break up of the union definitely does that - it would be a huge moment, as would the collapse of the monarchy, which would be really shaken by such a break up.

 Brexit sort of upsets the status quo, though on one level its conceived by many of the architects as an attempt to go back to a Britain of the past and an attempt to try to reinforce that old model. If Brexit does help undo the union that would be a really lucky unexpected side outcome. I like the union, it could and should work, but in its current form it doesn't. Since reform isn't an allowed option best to rip it up and start again, and maybe in the distant future a weaker England could rejoin a new union in which it wouldn't be allowed to dominate as much.


----------



## kenny g (Oct 21, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It would be funny if he did end as PM, then the standards committee completes their investigation, finds him guilty of misleading parliament, suspends him, which would result in a recall petition and a by election, which he would lose.


Too be honest I have seen enough superfluous political drama over the past 7 years to last a lifetime. It's entirely possible that could occur and it would just be another episode in the shit storm that is Johnson. Only a stake through the heart and quicklime would finish him off.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

kenny g said:


> Too be honest I have seen enough superfluous political drama over the past 7 years to last a lifetime. It's entirely possible that could occur and it would just be another episode in the shit storm that is Johnson. Only a stake through the heart and quicklime would finish him off.


Not even that. He needs to be thrown from the tarpeian rock or sewn into a leather sack with a rooster, snake, dog and monkey then cast into the briny deep


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It would be funny if he did end as PM, then the standards committee completes their investigation, finds him guilty of misleading parliament, suspends him, which would result in a recall petition and a by election, which he would lose.


You have a surprising amount of faith in the institutions of British government, considering everything


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 21, 2022)

If Boris did get the job again... Would he get a second payout when he's turfed out? Or is it one per invididual?


----------



## strung out (Oct 21, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> If Boris did get the job again... Would he get a second payout when he's turfed out? Or is it one per invididual?


Double bubble.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 21, 2022)

Funny to think that if Truss had pulled out of the leadership campaign or been beaten into third, she could have merrily carried on her underserved career at the top table of politics without being publicly outed as completely incompetent and thick as mince. I mean, nerds like us would have known it but the man on the omnibus always seemed to like her.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 21, 2022)

Portuguese political humour

Yes, but in the UK it was not true Liberalism. True Liberalism was never achieved.
Karl Tax


----------



## Santino (Oct 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Looks like PeoplePolling might have some Urbz respondents! 😂
> 
> 
> 
> C***S 👍



"government"


----------



## kabbes (Oct 21, 2022)

Just one last time, for old time’s sake:



kabbes said:


> It would be properly hilarious if they made Liz Truss prime minister.  For about 2 minutes, before the crashing realisation that Liz Truss is now prime minister.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 21, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> I think it's sadly true that England will never fully examine itself until it's forced to, until it's left alone with itself, to finally realise how it got there.


Ignoring the fact that it would in fact be left with Wales and not "alone" ... what does this even mean? What does a country "examining itself" actually mean? How does a country "realise" something - what form woud that take?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Leaving aside the vomiting inducing idea of MPs as some sort of guardians of democracy - I don't get how this is consistent with the politics you claim you want.
> 
> CS favours this sort of 'parliamentary sovereignty' because it aligns with their liberal politics, it serves to block any Corbyn type candidate. Sensible Starmer vs sensible Sunk. But don't you want some sort of socialist/social democratic party? Raising MPs as experts who's decisions are sovereign leads to the sort of crap that Italy saw with the imposition of technocratic PMs.
> 
> ...


Not sure what position you think you're arguing with. The set-up as it stands is one in which MPs wear rosettes to demonstrate their allegiances and are elected to parliament as delegates representing constituencies. That is the case whatever I want and whether or not I think it's a good system of democracy (I don't, but that's beside the point). It is what we have. And it is my opinion that events of the last few months have trampled all over the logic of accountability on which the system is based.


----------



## story (Oct 21, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Funny to think that if Truss had pulled out of the leadership campaign or been beaten into third, she could have merrily carried on her underserved career at the top table of politics without being publicly outed as completely incompetent and thick as mince. I mean, nerds like us would have known it but the man on the omnibus always seemed to like her.




A truly great example of the Peter Principle in action.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 21, 2022)

R


kabbes said:


> Funny to think that if Truss had pulled out of the leadership campaign or been beaten into third, she could have merrily carried on her underserved career at the top table of politics without being publicly outed as completely incompetent and thick as mince. I mean, nerds like us would have known it but the man on the omnibus always seemed to like her.


But now she gets 115 grand a year on top of her MP salary (assuming she doesn't resign from politics entirely and go to a lobby group or think tank) for her failure. That's for life. Failing upward has never been so egregious


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

story said:


> A truly great example of the Peter Principle in action.


dunno about that, Truss was obviously incompetent at her previous jobs in government too


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> But now she gets 115 grand a year on top of her MP salary (assuming she doesn't resign from politics entirely and go to a lobby group or think tank) for her failure. That's for life. Failing upward has never been so egregious



She can claim up to £115,000 in expenses annually "to meet the actual cost of continuing to fulfill public duties". It's not a salary for life.


----------



## prunus (Oct 21, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> R
> 
> But now she gets 115 grand a year on top of her MP salary (assuming she doesn't resign from politics entirely and go to a lobby group or think tank) for her failure. That's for life. Failing upward has never been so egregious



She doesn't.  She can set up an office for public duties and claim up to £115k of administrative expenses for that, but it's not automatic, plus she doesn't get it personally.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 21, 2022)

Ok, well that's something at least. But it's not as if she's in the gutter is it. Until she has to face the proles she's still an MP


----------



## story (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> dunno about that, Truss was obviously incompetent at her previous jobs in government too



Don’t spoil my joke with facts!


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

Gordon Brown uses his to run the 'Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown' and is so keen not to waste public money that he argues about the price of cabs.


----------



## andysays (Oct 21, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> If Boris did get the job again... Would he get a second payout when he's turfed out? Or is it one per invididual?


If we're going down this road, I wonder if there's ever been a case of a PM resigning as leader of their party (as distinct from losing a GE), and then regaining the leadership and the Premiership. 

I would be surprised if it has actually happened, TBH


----------



## Petcha (Oct 21, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> R
> 
> But now she gets 115 grand a year on top of her MP salary (assuming she doesn't resign from politics entirely and go to a lobby group or think tank) for her failure. That's for life. Failing upward has never been so egregious



There's absolutely no way any lobbying agency would put her on the books. And given how thick she is I suspect a think tank would also be out of the question.

She'll probably even lose her seat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

Petcha said:


> There's absolutely no way any lobbying agency would put her on the books. And given how thick she is I suspect a think tank would also be out of the question.
> 
> She'll probably even lose her seat.


She's in their bad books


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

andysays said:


> If we're going down this road, I wonder if there's ever been a case of a PM resigning as leader of their party (as distinct from losing a GE), and then regaining the leadership and the Premiership.
> 
> I would be surprised if it has actually happened, TBH


I wouldn't. Gladstone resigned after losing a ge and came back


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> Gordon Brown uses his to run the 'Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown' and is so keen not to waste public money that he argues about the price of cabs.


He just likes an argument


----------



## weepiper (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> I'm confused by p**s. It can only be 'piss' right? That's a bit of a random swearword to form part of an opinion on the government.


My money's on 'they're taking the piss'.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> They must know that Johnson comming back just makes them look even more ridiculous? Right? RIGHT??


I'm clinging to that hope too


----------



## marty21 (Oct 21, 2022)

6 weeks in the job - £115,000 pa for life afterwards - now that is the best temp gig evah!


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

marty21 said:


> 6 weeks in the job - £115,000 pa for life afterwards - now that is the best temp gig evah!



Yes, a shame for Truss that she didn't secure such a gig isn't it?


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

We've had that same non-fact repeated about 115,000  times on here already this post truth era is shit.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

Blame Ed Davey I guess. Don't believe everything a LibDem says:


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> We've had that same non-fact repeated about 115,000  times on here already this post truth era is shit.


bullshit non-facts have always persisted tbh, it's not a recent phenomenon: and while it spreads easier now due to internet virality, it is much easier to very quickly check whether something is bullshit too, so it's a mixed bag.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

weepiper said:


> My money's on 'they're taking the piss'.


Wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire is another option.

Really lost of good piss options


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

_cock, piss, partridge_


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

It's still a cushy deal. You get £115,000 per year to set up an 'Office of Me'.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 21, 2022)

and of course MPs expenses have been incredibly closely scrutinized in the past.


----------



## Hash4Cash (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> My nearest little town has a tory club, big decrepit victorian building in the middle of the high street. Would love to pop in there this rainy dark eve, just half a pint and see what the vibe is. Did enquire and you need to be invited though, by a member.


I wouldn't bother buying a half, just say you are using it as a warm space


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2022)

Conservative clubs aren't really much to do with the Tories tho are there? There are also liberal clubs


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Not all that long ago, Labour would have been quite pleased to be on 35% and 39% in the polls. As of yesterday, those are their _leads _in the polls.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's still a cushy deal. You get £115,000 per year to set up an 'Office of Me'.


Oh, come on now, if they didn't have these perks we wouldn't be able to get the quality of MPs that we have now.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2022)

marty21 said:


> 6 weeks in the job - £115,000 pa for life afterwards - now that is the best temp gig evah!


If you can't get a 115k six week job then you're just lazy 🤷


----------



## xenon (Oct 21, 2022)

She can claim up to £115,000 in expenses annually "to meet the actual cost of continuing to fulfill public duties". It's not a salary for life.
[/QUOTE]

Show me the claim form. I bet you don't need receipts and it's easier to claim than most people's work expenses.

In fact you can probably add as an expense paying someone to do it on your behalf.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Not all that long ago, Labour would have been quite pleased to be on 35% and 39% in the polls. As of yesterday, those are their _leads _in the polls.


It's striking how the LibDems have gained zero in the polls. In fact, compared to the summer, they've gone down a couple of points.


----------



## xenon (Oct 21, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> I'm clinging to that hope too



Erm can I just point at, Fabricant, Rees-Mogg, Dories.

But you think they care about looking rediculous. O...K...


----------



## xenon (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> _cock, piss, partridge_



you know, what aye reckon is, if thee had themselves proper jobs, they wouldn’t be up to all this, you know, larkin’ ev’ry night.


----------



## JimW (Oct 21, 2022)

Liz, we hardly knew ye. And ye hardly knew arse from elbow.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

xenon said:


> you know, what aye reckon is, if thee had themselves proper jobs, they wouldn’t be up to all this, you know, larkin’ ev’ry night.


tory mps are the worst idlers in the world


----------



## JimW (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's striking how the LibDems have gained zero in the polls. In fact, compared to the summer, they've gone down a couple of points.


Yet people claim the country's gone mad.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

So, this 100 nominations thing: almost certainly means that no more than 2 candidates reach that number.  Equally, there has to be pressure to stop the likes of Badenoch standing as she might stop a more likely loon standard bearer getting to the final shoot out with sunak.  Maybe there also has to be a decision amongst their respective supporters for only Johnson *or *Mordaunt to stand.  The whole thing is probably set up for Sunak to win, partly because he'll get more MP votes, but even more so because it stops it going to the members.  No idea how the members would vote after the Truss debacle, but yesterday's polls suggested they might still go for Johnson.


----------



## xenon (Oct 21, 2022)

Can they nominate more than 1 candidate though?


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 21, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> That doesn't sound very generous or positive at all. I'd say it is definitely Scotland and Northern Ireland that are being held back in a failing Britain. I think it's sadly true that England will never fully examine itself until it's forced to, until it's left alone with itself, to finally realise how it got there.


So not "England and Wales" then? Why should Wales have to stay?


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

xenon said:


> Can they nominate more than 1 candidate though?


No


----------



## xenon (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> No



I thought probably not but you never know with this lot.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Hash4Cash said:


> I wouldn't bother buying a half, just say you are using it as a warm space


just emailed them asking how membership works and also if there’s food. just out of curiosity.


----------



## belboid (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## xenon (Oct 21, 2022)

T





Plumdaff said:


> So not "England and Wales" then? Why should Wales have to stay?



The premise is faulty anyway. Why is this to do with nationality. Am I somehow supposed to go into some period of intraspection on the naughty step cos I happened to have been born and live here.

Anyway, all those tedious debates, about what is Englishness of the last few years, No one needs that crap again.


----------



## andysays (Oct 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I wouldn't. Gladstone resigned after losing a ge and came back



Of course, Sasaferrato remembers it well...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

andysays said:


> Of course, Sasaferrato remembers it well...


as tho it was yesterday, which given his expansive lifespan it effectively is


----------



## JimW (Oct 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> View attachment 348119


Time Lords not up for Liz Truss.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's striking how the LibDems have gained zero in the polls. In fact, compared to the summer, they've gone down a couple of points.


Yeah, I've wondered about that.  If you take these polls as a 'conversation' or opportunity to blow off steam, rather than a direct expression of party choice, you'd still expect the Libdems to benefit as a 'protest vote'.  Given how hollowed out Labour is, I'm not sure why they are getting all of the benefit, maybe it's something to do with the financial pressure people are under. In a way, it might also be the 'success' of the Starmer strategy in stripping away anything the media might attack Labour over, the flag shagging, the content free attacks they are making on the government.  Labour are not exactly offering hope and they don't have a political identity, but that works for the moment.  However the dynamic will be very different in an election.

It would be bonkers to bet against Labour at the moment and I'm not going to do.  But you do wonder what the size of the 'real' lead is and what it will look like when we get back to a nominally functional government.   Even the cost of living horrors won't necessarily play out as simple and direct Labour advantage.


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 21, 2022)

xenon said:


> T
> 
> The premise is faulty anyway. Why is this to do with nationality. Am I somehow supposed to go into some period of intraspection on the naughty step cos I happened to have been born and live here.
> 
> Anyway, all those tedious debates, about what is Englishness of the last few years, No one needs that crap again.


I'm responding to the premise Tanya1982 set up in which Britain is failing so should breakup, but somehow Wales, which has never voted Tory, gets to be part of rump "England and Wales" without a second's consideration. 

I'm English btw, although I live in Wales. It is about nationality if you're discussing national self determination.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 21, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Conservative clubs aren't really much to do with the Tories tho are there? There are also liberal clubs


My dad used to drink in Bath Liberal Club , it was about as Liberal as Trump.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 21, 2022)

xenon said:


> Can they nominate more than 1 candidate though?





killer b said:


> No


Tell that to Shapps


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 21, 2022)

xenon said:


> T
> 
> The premise is faulty anyway. Why is this to do with nationality. Am I somehow supposed to go into some period of intraspection on the naughty step cos I happened to have been born and live here.
> 
> Anyway, all those tedious debates, about what is Englishness of the last few years, No one needs that crap again.


This


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> View attachment 348119



Citation needed for an airing during John Major’s premiership.


----------



## strung out (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Citation needed for an airing during John Major’s premiership.


Depends whether a TV movie counts as an episode or not, but: Doctor Who (film) - Wikipedia


----------



## Benjamin F (Oct 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> View attachment 348119


Birmingham City were reputedly the only team never to score during the reign of a Pope (John Paul I). It looks like Leeds United are the only Premier League team not to win a game during a Prime Ministers complete period in office.


----------



## belboid (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Citation needed for an airing during John Major’s premiership.


The Paul McGann one


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Citation needed for an airing during John Major’s premiership.


Paul McGann's Dr Who was aired in 1996


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

Now the the new Mini Budget on October 31 is up in the air as Downing Street said it is up to the PM weather it goes ahead or not?


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

strung out said:


> Depends whether a TV movie counts as an episode or not, but: Doctor Who (film) - Wikipedia



Sorry but a television movie is not an “episode”.


----------



## belboid (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Sorry but a television movie is not an “episode”.


It’s canon.  PM was the eight doctor.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> It’s canon.  PM was the eight doctor.



It may have bridged the narrative between two series but it wasn't an episode of a series.

I'm surprised that no repeats were aired during the Major years though.


----------



## Santino (Oct 21, 2022)

Dimensions in Time - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Oct 21, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Do you think what has just happened was a coup? I dont think anywhere to the degree you make out: i think it was mainly weak and incompetent leadership with little support in the party and crucially even less support in the country <no one voted for her and polls swung drastically against her sharpish to wipe out levels which is what really set panic amongst Tory MPs. You need support to get things done in politics. Her power was a house of  cards and it was less a coup and more of a collapse.
> 
> Do you think the reported near collapse of  pension funds was artificially manipulated to bring her down, or do you think it was a to be expected outcome (others predicted similiar if Truss went ahead with her plans). ?
> 
> ...


I did not use the word coup
I certainly dont think therefore that the market collapse was manuipulated
That Remainers want to reverse Brexit is undoubted
An election might bring Starmer to power: as useless as the Tories
In any event I wrote the article not out of sympathy for Truss but concern for the precedents set
I certainly do not like our system of government but at least foregrounding parties allows radical change via election. I dislike intensely the personalisation of politics a Presidential system epitomises  
*Edited to add: I have now amended the article to take account of/answer your criticisms*


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> I'm surprised that no repeats were aired during the Major years though.


they were on UK Gold during the major years


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

DotCommunist said:


> they were on UK Gold during the major years



Thought so.

Seems it has been repeated on W this week, so the claim fails on that aspect anyway:









						Doctor Who (The Almost People) on W, Thu 20 Oct 9:00am - TV Guide UK TVGuide.co.uk
					

TV Guide, The UK's No 1 TV guide showing your TV listings in an easy to read grid format. Visit us to check Sports, News, Freeview, Freesat, Sky TV, Virgin TV, History, Discovery, TLC, BBC, and more.



					www.tvguide.co.uk


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

I wonder who Truss would back in the Leadership vote?


----------



## what (Oct 21, 2022)

Just found out guy I work with had 6-1 at ladbrooks on the lettuce winning


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I wonder who Truss would back in the Leadership vote?



Whoever she wanted to lose.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Whoever she wanted to lose.



I don't think she's that clever.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## marty21 (Oct 21, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Yes, a shame for Truss that she didn't secure such a gig isn't it?


I'm not aware of any other temp gigs which get you such a generous "allowance " after 6 weeks.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 21, 2022)

Boris is very close to the 100 threshold apparently. At which point he'll be in a race from an electorate of white older men who were furious when he was ousted

Can't quite believe this    

'Hasta la vista baby'


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> It’s canon.  PM was the eight doctor.


In the future, there'll be debates as to whether Truss was ever canon.


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 21, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris is very close to the 100 threshold apparently. At which point he'll be in a race from an electorate of white older men who were furious when he was ousted
> 
> Can't quite believe this
> 
> 'Hasta la vista baby'


isn't it 100% sure that rishi sunak is going to get in though, like you said 12 or so hours ago?


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 21, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> But, it's not that mad, we have witnessed party members picking leaders that don't have support from their party's MPs, and the chaos it causes, both with Truss & Corbyn.
> 
> I think the Tory membership has learnt that lesson.


I guess there is no chance of boris johnson getting in even if he is nominated tho, as the tory membership has learnt its lesson for sure.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 21, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> isn't it 100% sure that rishi sunak is going to get in though?



Well it was until BoJo decided to get off his lounger in the Caribbean to come and save the day.

Still, at least if he does get in we should have a Labour govt next time. I don't know if we would if Sunak had won.


----------



## Petcha (Oct 21, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> I guess there is no chance of boris johnson getting in even if he is nominated tho, as the tory membership has learnt its lesson for sure.



No if he gets into the dance-off I think theres a very good chance the idiots will vote for him. He was forced out by the parliamentary party, not tory members. If I recall correctly, when his name was hypothetically thrown into the leadership race last time he would have won


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 21, 2022)

ok, you seem very certain so I guess you must have an excellent secure grasp of the situation.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Seems to me they've panicked themselves into a fairly unpredictable process, all of a piece with the panics of the last few weeks.  Essentially, they've shifted from a kind of alternative vote process to first past the post, in the blink of an eye.  It's certainly FPTP if only one gets 100+.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 21, 2022)

Get them telt Rutabowa. 150 to the server fund from CS if Bojo gets in.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Ironically, if Johnson stands, he probably guarantees sunak wins it.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

Would have thought Sunak wanted to have his stall out by now. Must be struggling with signatures.


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> ok, you seem very certain so I guess you must have an excellent secure grasp of the situation.


You hate the game, but it keeps pulling you back in


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Ironically, if Johnson stands, he probably guarantees sunak wins it.


How does that work?
Best thing for Sunak would be for a couple of loons like braverman / badenoch / whoever to announce themselves and get some of the supporters that would otherwise add up to 100 for BJ. I think. But maybe trying to apply logic to this shitshow is missing the point entirely.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Apparently Ben Wallace is 'leaning towards' supporting Johnson (not standing himself) - guardian site.  Seems like the Johnson thing is becoming real. Suppose Berlusconi wasn't available.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 21, 2022)

All cunts. Every one of them . Cunts


----------



## strung out (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> Would have thought Sunak wanted to have his stall out by now. Must be struggling with signatures.


I'm wondering whether he even wants to stand. It would seem pretty clear to most 'credible' candidates now that the whole situation now is so toxic, it's a complete poisoned chalice to take over as leader. Maybe the sensible ones are thinking they'll wait a couple of years until after the next general election.


----------



## andysays (Oct 21, 2022)

Petcha said:


> Boris is very close to the 100 threshold apparently. At which point he'll be in a race from an electorate of white older men who were furious when he was ousted
> 
> Can't quite believe this
> 
> 'Hasta la vista baby'


Is this more inside info from someone you work with?

And weren't you claiming less than 24 hours ago than Sunak was 100% certain to walk it?

I wonder who your next fantasy guaranteed winner will be, presumably based on a hot tip from your coke dealer...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

andysays said:


> Is this more inside info from someone you work with?
> 
> And weren't you claiming less than 24 hours ago than Sunak was 100% certain to walk it?
> 
> I wonder who your next fantasy guaranteed winner will be, presumably based on a hot tip from your coke dealer...


Petcha is clearly strong and stable


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

What if by Monday it becomes clear that absolutely nobody wants the job there are no hats in the ring at all, or only suella or something, then what happens?


----------



## elbows (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> What if by Monday it becomes clear that absolutely nobody wants the job there are no hats in the ring at all, or only suella or something, then what happens?


Its already obvious that some people want the job.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> How does that work?
> Best thing for Sunak would be for a couple of loons like braverman / badenoch / whoever to announce themselves and get some of the supporters that would otherwise add up to 100 for BJ. I think. But maybe trying to apply logic to this shitshow is missing the point entirely.


Well, I was thinking if Johnson and Mordaunt both stand, neither get to 100.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 21, 2022)

Wilf said:


> In the future, there'll be debates as to whether Truss was ever canon.


30 years from now she'll be a question on a TV game shows and in pub quizs :-

"Who was the Shortest Serving British Prime Minister a) Pitt The Younger, b) Liz Truss or c) Freddie Mercury"

A few years ago during the monthly Thurday quiz at the local one of the questions was "Who is The Leader of the Lib Dems" and I was the only one who knew it was Vince Cable helping my team to secure victory and the grand prize of £20 plus a bottle of the cheap vino that the landlord had finally realised no-one was daft enough to actually pay for.
So even Vince Cable achieved at least one good thing in his stint as leader.


----------



## philosophical (Oct 21, 2022)

The poor woman on the computer who has done a decent job imitating Truss is out of (that) work now.


----------



## strung out (Oct 21, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> 30 years from now she'll be a question on a TV game shows and in pub quizs :-
> 
> "Who was the Shortest Serving British Prime Minister a) Pitt The Younger, b) Liz Truss or c) Freddie Mercury"
> 
> ...


My first cousin, ten(ish) times removed was the previous shortest serving prime minister. I'm furious that that extremely minor claim to fame and obscure bit of trivia has now been robbed from me.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

Has anyone formally declared they are steading yet?


----------



## teqniq (Oct 21, 2022)

Pass the sick bag:

Liz Truss to hand out resignation honours – after just 44 days as PM


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 21, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not sure what position you think you're arguing with. The set-up as it stands is one in which MPs wear rosettes to demonstrate their allegiances and are elected to parliament as delegates representing constituencies. That is the case whatever I want and whether or not I think it's a good system of democracy (I don't, but that's beside the point). It is what we have. And it is my opinion that events of the last few months have trampled all over the logic of accountability on which the system is based.


If this view is accepted then how can you argue that a GE is required. If once elected MPs are part of sovereign body then they are completely free to change their views on any manifesto pledges. You are contradicting yourself - you can't have MPs as both some sort of standard wavers for a mandate and at the same time insist they that democracy is solely the preserve of the HoC.
If it is _democratic_ for MPs to select a party leader by sidelining members, then it is also _democratic_ for them to decide they wish to back a new leader (potentially with different politics).

EIDT: Regardless of which there is no requirement for socialists to play by the bullshit rules created by liberals. Despite being elected at representative the IWCA councillors choose to at as delegates. 
If you see the purpose of the LP as parliamentary arm of the labour movement (hardly a radical view) then it is perfectly consistent to see MPs as the servants of the movement.


----------



## Sue (Oct 21, 2022)

strung out said:


> I'm wondering whether he even wants to stand. It would seem pretty clear to most 'credible' candidates now that the whole situation now is so toxic, it's a complete poisoned chalice to take over as leader. Maybe the sensible ones are thinking they'll wait a couple of years until after the next general election.


I'm pretty sure some of them at least are so overconfident in their own 'abilities' that they reckon they can sort things out. Because they're so smart and all that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Pass the sick bag:
> 
> Liz Truss to hand out resignation honours – after just 44 days as PM


bet fucking therese coffey will be bumped up to the lords


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> What if by Monday it becomes clear that absolutely nobody wants the job there are no hats in the ring at all, or only suella or something, then what happens?


We begin Full Communism.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Has anyone formally declared they are steading yet?


They'd look pretty silly if they announced it then didn't get the 100 nominations. There's a spreadsheet of who's supporting who on Guido Fawkes' site and there appear to be three people campaigning.


----------



## teqniq (Oct 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> bet fucking therese coffey will be bumped up to the lords


Oh you can pretty much guarantee all kinds of undeserving dreck will be used to stuff the lords with more vermin.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> They'd look pretty silly if they announced it then didn't get the 100 nominations. There's a spreadsheet of who's supporting who on Guido Fawkes' site and there appear to be three people campaigning.



A big pinch of salt needed with that sheet. For example they have Wallace as willing to nominate Johnson, whereas he merely said he was leaning in his direction depending on the standards inquiry etc, let alone going to vote for him, and let alone actually going to sign the nomination paper.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

The deadline for these 100 nominations is supposed to be Monday lunchtime ?
A fitting season finale would be where nobody gets to that number, seems as likely as anything else.


----------



## rutabowa (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> You hate the game, but it keeps pulling you back in


I will be back in 5 pages time to quote anyone else who was certain about something that fell apart over the next 6 hours of news.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

killer b said:


> _cock, piss, partridge_


Wasn't that an album title by The Congos


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 21, 2022)

strung out said:


> My first cousin, ten(ish) times removed was the previous shortest serving prime minister. I'm furious that that extremely minor claim to fame and obscure bit of trivia has now been robbed from me.


It can't be easy to have a Tory as such a close relative, so things have probably all worked out for the best for you.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> My nearest little town has a tory club, big decrepit victorian building in the middle of the high street. Would love to pop in there this rainy dark eve, just half a pint and see what the vibe is. Did enquire and you need to be invited though, by a member.





Hash4Cash said:


> I wouldn't bother buying a half, just say you are using it as a warm space



would be warmer still if you set fire to it

this of course may be illegal, and i should point out this is a theoretical observation


----------



## Petcha (Oct 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Petcha is clearly strong and stable



I can confidently say that a cunt will be our PM by this time next week. That's stability.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Wasn't that an album title by The Congos


cock piss part ridge


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> All cunts. Every one of them . Cunts


My wife got upset with me last night for saying that most of the audience of Question Time were cunts. 

"That's not a very nice thing to say about a large room full of people you've never met"
"Well actually darling I don't need to meet them to know they are cunts because Fiona has seen to it that most of the audience are Tories, therefore I deduct that most of the audience are cunts."
"You can't call people cunts just because they're Tories"
"How long have we been married?"
"How about that friend of yours from the internet, he's a Tory"
"Yes darling, we call him Cunty, discussion over"


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> cock piss part ridge


No, my mistake. 

It's Cock mouth kill cock. 






						Cock Mouth Kill Cock [Us Import]: Amazon.co.uk: CDs & Vinyl
					

Shop Cock Mouth Kill Cock [Us Import]. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.



					www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> No, my mistake.
> 
> It's Cock mouth kill cock.
> 
> ...


you're right, i'm thinking of the congas


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

Just. Absolutely. No. Shame.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

At least two of the MPs who resigned in protest at boris johnson to force him out a few weeks ago have just publicly endorsed his return, what the fuck can you even say at this point.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> At least two of the MPs who resigned in protest at boris johnson to forec him out a few weeks ago have just publicly endorsed his return, what the fuck can you even say at this point.


Just bizarre


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Another poll has Labour 37% ahead. Stop it, stop it, just getting sill now!


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

A lot of them must be scared of publicly announcing who they support cos their constituents will be watching, do they have to make it public by Monday who wants the return of BJ and who doesn't etc?


----------



## gosub (Oct 21, 2022)

Wilf said:


> Another poll has Labour 37% ahead. Stop it, stop it, just getting sill now!


Is a bit ....read that as not this lot as opposed to real enthusiasm for Keith


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 21, 2022)

lol


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 21, 2022)

gosub said:


> Is a bit ....read that as not this lot as opposed to real enthusiasm for Keith


Of course. It's a bit of a cliche to say that governments lose elections rather than oppositions winning them, but this is certainly shaping up to be a the textbook example.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 21, 2022)

Why hasn’t Britain ever had a revolution someone once asked me when I was far away from home 

Lol


----------



## not-bono-ever (Oct 21, 2022)

Not lol tho


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)




----------



## strung out (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


>



Fingers crossed he gets in.


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 21, 2022)

strung out said:


> Fingers crossed he gets in.


Could get interesting if that happened


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Why hasn’t Britain ever had a revolution someone once asked me when I was far away from home
> 
> Lol



We've had loads, just not many successful ones.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2022)

Bingoman said:


>



I'm guessing that's a tory source.


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

We need a vote on who endorses which of the three pointless similar threads losers to merge / die.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> We need a vote on who endorses which of the three pointless similar threads losers to merge / die.



minimum 100 nominations?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> We need a vote on who endorses which of the three pointless similar threads losers to merge / die.


Which ones?

This is one is about Truss, there's a separate one for the leadership election (which, lets face it, at this point Truss is only incidentally related to...). Which is t'other?


----------



## bimble (Oct 21, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Which ones?
> 
> This is one is about Truss, there's a separate one for the leadership election (which, lets face it, at this point Truss is only incidentally related to...). Which is t'other?


its not about her anymore though is it, there's 3 whose gonna be the next Pm threads basically, but by monday we'll have whittled it down to two.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 21, 2022)

bimble said:


> its not about her anymore though is it


Bloody well should be


----------



## JimW (Oct 21, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Bloody well should be


Keep it open for when that book comes out and we all have our own reviews.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Just. Absolutely. No. Shame.



If that happens there really needs to be some fucking rioting.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Why hasn’t Britain ever had a revolution someone once asked me when I was far away from home
> 
> Lol


Because most of the Citizen Smiths who rant about the "coming of the glorious day" are too busy ranting about the coming of the glorious day down the local cafe reading a newspaper about lettuces brother. 

The youth and their own uprising is the only hope we will ever have of a revolution. 

If we could just get them off TikTok...


----------



## moochedit (Oct 21, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> Just. Absolutely. No. Shame.



She entitled to the ex pm's 115k a year allowence as well.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 21, 2022)

If she put Johnson in the HoL, she might get credit for actually saving the Conservative party.


----------



## maomao (Oct 21, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Why hasn’t Britain ever had a revolution someone once asked me when I was far away from home
> 
> Lol


1649


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 21, 2022)

Oh well, if he gets in and it doesn't work out Liz can always come back.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 21, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Oh well, if he gets in and it doesn't work out Liz can always come back.


They could do a job share


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 21, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> Oh well, if he gets in and it doesn't work out Liz can always come back.


So we see mummy mondays to thursday then we get daddy for a long weekend?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

maomao said:


> 1649


Yes, you're right maybe Billy Bragg and Amanda Palmer could sing until they submit.


----------



## _Russ_ (Oct 21, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> If that happens there really needs to be some fucking rioting.


It will happen and unfortunately there wont be any rioting  just a lot of feather spitting and maybe a meme or 2


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 21, 2022)

_Russ_ said:


> It will happen and unfortunately there wont be any rioting  just a lot of feather spitting and maybe a meme or 2


I'm going to conjure up some fucking Hellzapoppin if she makes Kami Karziteng a fucking Lord_ _ 

I will most definately riot, at least on a tree in the wood that has succumb to Ash dieback .


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2022)

I'd just like to remind everyone that
the precipitating factor in Truss  resigning was the government comfortably winning a vote. I still find that fucking hilarious.

Yeah Okay if not that it would have been something else. But still fucking hilarious.


----------



## Riklet (Oct 21, 2022)

Amusingly the very first time I get round to looking at this thread and she's already been and gone. Ha ha.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 21, 2022)

Riklet said:


> Amusingly the very first time I get round to looking at this thread and she's already been and gone. Ha ha.


Blink and you miss it


----------



## bluescreen (Oct 21, 2022)

Riklet said:


> Amusingly the very first time I get round to looking at this thread and she's already been and gone. Ha ha.


Who?


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Oct 22, 2022)

Wilf said:


> In the future, there'll be debates as to whether Truss was ever canon.


Loose cannon.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 22, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Yes, you're right maybe Billy Bragg and Amanda Palmer could sing until they submit.



A libdem voter and someone who does not pay her band - don't think I dare press the play button.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 22, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> A libdem voter and someone who does not pay her band - don't think I dare press the play button.


Probably wise. They murder that song in that video.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> A libdem voter and someone who does not pay her band - don't think I dare press the play button.


Palmer doesn’t pay her band? I’ve not thought about the Dresden Dolls in years. I have Yes Virginia and possibly another one, but it must be at least a decade since I even thought about them.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 22, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Palmer doesn’t pay her band? I’ve not thought about the Dresden Dolls in years. I have Yes Virginia and possibly another one, but it must be at least a decade since I even thought about them.


There was a scandal a few years ago when the millionaire Palmer was advertising for session musicians and offered to pay them in beer and hugs. An absolute disgrace.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 22, 2022)

Dom Traynor said:


> There was a scandal a few years ago when the millionaire Palmer was advertising for session musicians and offered to pay them in beer and hugs. An absolute disgrace.


Fuck sake.  As a musician myself it’s annoying enough when general civilians think we should work for free, but another musician? Jesus.


----------



## A380 (Oct 22, 2022)

Callum91 said:


> So we see mummy mondays to thursday then we get daddy for a long weekend?


Daddy promises to buy us lots of lovely toys to make up for leaving us in front of the telly all weekend while he is out wit all his difference pretty 'nieces' every night. But he never does...


----------



## Cid (Oct 22, 2022)

Have Dick Gaughan instead:


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 22, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Palmer doesn’t pay her band? I’ve not thought about the Dresden Dolls in years. I have Yes Virginia and possibly another one, but it must be at least a decade since I even thought about them.


What Dom Traynor said. I think she did pay them in the end but there was a issue when she was not paying her crew.








						Urban v's the Commentariat
					

I really did Laugh Out Loud at that Onion video. :D




					www.urban75.net


----------



## bmd (Oct 22, 2022)

Have we had this yet?


----------



## Serene (Oct 22, 2022)

She was pm for about a month and will now get 115 grand a year for rest of her life.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 22, 2022)

Serene said:


> She was pm for about a month and will now get 115 grand a year for rest of her life.



and we might get a blustercunt back in charge


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 22, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> and we might get a blustercunt back in charge


There has always been a blustercunt in charge


----------



## Mezzer (Oct 22, 2022)

Shameless.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 22, 2022)

Serene said:


> She was pm for about a month and will now get 115 grand a year for rest of her life.



Pocket change, she's already worth millions and has fleeced more.

The only loser in her premiership is us and Shell who expected a better roi


----------



## Ming (Oct 22, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Palmer doesn’t pay her band? I’ve not thought about the Dresden Dolls in years. I have Yes Virginia and possibly another one, but it must be at least a decade since I even thought about them.


Great band.


----------



## Ming (Oct 22, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> and we might get a blustercunt back in charge


Well the money may just cover his childcare costs so he is incentivized.


----------



## Serene (Oct 22, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> Pocket change, she's already worth millions and has fleeced more.
> 
> The only loser in her premiership is us and Shell who expected a better roi


Mon Dieu. Vive la revolution.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 23, 2022)

The Tory MPs backing Boris Johnson after saying he had to go
					

Only a few months ago they had issued statements accusing the ex PM of "errors of judgement" and a lack of "integrity" as well as damaging the party and the country




					www.walesonline.co.uk


----------



## Tanya1982 (Oct 23, 2022)

frogwoman said:


> The Tory MPs backing Boris Johnson after saying he had to go
> 
> 
> Only a few months ago they had issued statements accusing the ex PM of "errors of judgement" and a lack of "integrity" as well as damaging the party and the country
> ...


Errors of judgement and lack of integrity - a lot of projection going on in their cases. I hope their hapless constituents finally take note of the incoherence and amorality of these desperate, dangerous fools.


----------



## xenon (Oct 23, 2022)

Woodchipper, feet first.


----------



## strung out (Oct 23, 2022)

belboid said:


> View attachment 348119


There's a new Doctor Who episode tonight, so unless something drastic occurs in the next few hours, she'll get her episode.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 23, 2022)

who do you think the doctor is regenerating to


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 23, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> who do you think the doctor is regenerating to


So many options


----------



## strung out (Oct 23, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> who do you think the doctor is regenerating to


Well we thought we were getting someone new, but apparently they might be getting the previous bloke back.


----------



## Serene (Oct 23, 2022)

strung out said:


> There's a new Doctor Who episode tonight, so unless something drastic occurs in the next few hours, she'll get her episode.


Thank for that. I will watch that. Rees Moggs cidermen are attacking earth again. Probably Somerset.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> A handy review, and particularly enjoyed the characterisation of Miliband's contributions



Keep thinking of this


----------



## Petcha (Oct 24, 2022)

I assume there was a bit of this before that weird announcement. From a very weird woman. Who weirdly became PM.


----------



## steveo87 (Oct 24, 2022)

It's amazing how in the money The Thick of It was/is.


----------



## gosub (Oct 24, 2022)

steveo87 said:


> It's amazing how in the money The Thick of It was/is.


Not a good look though


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 24, 2022)

Meanwhile Truss is apparently spending her final week getting pissed at Chequers in a series of parties.


----------



## gosub (Oct 24, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Meanwhile Truss is apparently spending her final week getting pissed at Chequers in a series of parties.


what would you have her do?


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

gosub said:


> what would you have her do?


Jump out a fucking window.


----------



## gosub (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> Jump out a fucking window.


Gilt auctions and potential Fed rate rises aren't til next week


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2022)

gosub said:


> what would you have her do?


Use a funnel people can pour bottles of spirits down. Just three or four bottles of vodka should do the trick


----------



## bimble (Oct 24, 2022)

Just got an email back from the local conservative club, I’m very welcome to apply to be a member, no mention of any political requirement whatsoever. Monthly quiz and bingo nights.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 24, 2022)

bimble said:


> Just got an email back from the local conservative club, I’m very welcome to apply to be a member, no mention of any political requirement whatsoever. Monthly quiz and bingo nights.


I get the impression that it is considered bad form to discuss politics at the Conservative Club.


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

They had to put bars on the windows of the Conservative club where I grew up.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 24, 2022)

people wanted to get out that badly?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> They had to put bars on the windows of the Conservative club where I grew up.



Perfectly sensible once you've boarded up the door


----------



## maomao (Oct 24, 2022)

two sheds said:


> people wanted to get out that badly?


I used to hurl abuse at it when returning home drunk as a teenager, probably threw the odd stone too. I think it's because it was (and is) a very poor area and they didn't want their stuff nicked.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 24, 2022)

maomao said:


> They had to put bars on the windows of the Conservative club where I grew up.



Our local Tory party has a shop as an office, they had to install shutters, because people kept smashing the shop front windows at night.


----------



## izz (Oct 24, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Meanwhile Truss is apparently spending her final week getting pissed at Chequers in a series of parties.


To be fair, keeping her sedated and out of the way is probably sensible at this juncture.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 24, 2022)

The local Tory club is about 100m up the road. When we moved here it had 'Nazi HQ' sprayed on the wall. They tried to remove it but made a mess of it and it was still readable for years after.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 24, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Meanwhile Truss is apparently spending her final week getting pissed at Chequers in a series of parties.


Much like boris then


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 25, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I get the impression that it is considered bad form to discuss politics at the Conservative Club.



It's apparently bad form to allude to politics in my entire local Conservative Party - they've started putting out leaflets with only one tiny party logo in the p. 2 footer, doing their best to hide who they are altogether. All of the content is about pedestrian crossings and the like. If I was a Tory in this area (🤣 ) I'd be thinking I might as well vote Lib Dem.


----------



## nogojones (Oct 25, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I get the impression that it is considered bad form to discuss politics at the Conservative Club.


Our local one is were the lifters shift stuff they haven't got prearranged punters for.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 25, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> It's apparently bad form to allude to politics in my entire local Conservative Party - they've started putting out leaflets with only one tiny party logo in the p. 2 footer, doing their best to hide who they are altogether. All of the content is about pedestrian crossings and the like. If I was a Tory in this area (🤣 ) I'd be thinking I might as well vote Lib Dem.


Yeah tory leaflets here tend to stick to the local "dog shit politics" issues.


----------



## bimble (Oct 25, 2022)

the conservative club email said the process is that my application form would be pinned to the noticeboard for three weeks and if nobody objects during that time then I can then join (£25 a year). I have a very obviously weird foreign name so wouldn't be surprised if somebody were to voice concerns, but thats more about the town in general.


----------



## moochedit (Oct 25, 2022)

bimble said:


> the conservative club email said the process is that my application form would be pinned to the noticeboard for three weeks and if nobody objects during that time then I can then join (£25 a year). I have a very obviously weird foreign name so wouldn't be surprised if somebody were to voice concerns, but thats more about the town in general.


Isn't pinning your application form up like that breaking data protection laws?


----------



## bimble (Oct 25, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Isn't pinning your application form up like that breaking data protection laws?


idk maybe. i'm not very keen, my address and phone and everything, and ticking 'single' . might give it a miss.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Oct 25, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Isn't pinning your application form up like that breaking data protection laws?


If they've told her exactly what they are going to do with it, and she's agreed to it, then no I don't think it does.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 25, 2022)

Truss is about to speak from outside No, 10, having resigned as party leader, she now needs to give notice she's off to resign as PM, then go to see King 'oh dear, oh dear' Charles.


----------



## strung out (Oct 25, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Truss is about to speak from outside No, 10, having resigned as party leader, she now needs to give notice she's off to resign as PM, then go to see King 'oh dear, oh dear' Charles.


And we all know what happened the last time a PM had to go and tender their resignation to the monarch. Old Queenie was dead within 48 hours.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2022)

strung out said:


> And we all know what happened the last time a PM had to go and tender their resignation to the monarch. Old Queenie was dead within 48 hours.


i'm looking forward to the footage of the pair meeting, won't be anything so cordial as oh dear oh dear


----------



## belboid (Oct 25, 2022)

Aah, her kids scuttling away in the background.   Both looked like teenagers, they must be getting done shit at school


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 25, 2022)

Blimey, that was probably the best speech & media appearance I've ever seen her do, how ironic.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 25, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Truss is about to speak from outside No, 10, having resigned as party leader, she now needs to give notice she's off to resign as PM, then go to see King 'oh dear, oh dear' Charles.


Let’s hope he mutters something racist.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 25, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Blimey, that was probably the best speech & media appearance I've ever seen her do, how ironic.




By all accounts it was still shit (I’ve not watched it, what would be the point?)


----------



## two sheds (Oct 25, 2022)

Did she apologize for the money she lost the country and pushing up peoples' mortgages by £500 a month? 

Aside from not declaring war on Iraq she surely has to be the worst prime minister in history, certainly for the brief time she was there.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 25, 2022)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 25, 2022)

Artaxerxes said:


> By all accounts it was still shit (I’ve not watched it, what would be the point?)



Oh, the content of the speech was shit, I was just referring to how she actually delivered it, without any weird pauses, and without sounding robotic, which in itself was a minor miracle, considering her usual performance.


----------



## Supine (Oct 25, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, the content of the speech was shit, I was just referring to how she actually delivered it, without any weird pauses, and without sounding robotic, which in itself was a minor miracle, considering her usual performance.



I only caught a few seconds but thought she was stumbling over a latin or greek reference. It was enough to make me switch channels anyway.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Oct 25, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, the content of the speech was shit, I was just referring to how she actually delivered it, without any weird pauses, and without sounding robotic, which in itself was a minor miracle, considering her usual performance.



True, I’m sure by her standards it was a masterpiece.

Everyone elses it was coherent


----------



## Gromit (Oct 25, 2022)

Supine said:


> I only caught a few seconds but thought she was stumbling over a latin or greek reference. It was enough to make me switch channels anyway.


Did you miss the nearby protesters playing "I predict a riot" loudly nearby at the end then?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 25, 2022)

Supine said:


> I only caught a few seconds but thought she was stumbling over a latin or greek reference. It was enough to make me switch channels anyway.


She stumbled over the identity of who she was about to quote. Roman senator Seneca (a famous Stoic philosopher).

I prefer his other famous quote:
"Drunkenness is nothing but voluntary madness"

He said it like it was a bad thing but I read it differently 😁


----------



## WhyLikeThis (Oct 25, 2022)

What was with the smirking? The joke’s on us I guess.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 25, 2022)

In the coming apocalypse, after the raising of the dead under the burning krypton-red sun, the space hamster wars, and the tofu riots (one two and three), Liz Truss, remembered as Our Lady of Numbers, will be venerated in a pantheon of gods.

Maybe then we can find out why she was almost giggling during her resignation speech


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> In the coming apocalypse, after the raising of the dead under the burning krypton-red sun, the space hamster wars, and the tofu riots (one two and three), Liz Truss, remembered as Our Lady of Numbers, will be venerated in a pantheon of gods.
> 
> Maybe then we can find out why she was almost giggling during her resignation speech


liz truss is not our lady of Numbers


----------



## izz (Oct 25, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, the content of the speech was shit, I was just referring to how she actually delivered it, without any weird pauses, and without sounding robotic, which in itself was a minor miracle, considering her usual performance.


She's had the practice, they've kept her away from everything else so she's had the time


----------



## agricola (Oct 29, 2022)

Bumped because the _Mail on Sunday_ apparently have an exclusive tomorrow that during the first leadership election, Truss' mobile phone was compromised by hackers and they got a _years_ worth of messages, including messages critical of Johnson and some secret information.  The report also lays it on thick about private messages between her and Kwarteng being on there too, so I guess that is another rumour that is about to be confirmed.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 29, 2022)

bimble said:


> the conservative club email said the process is that my application form would be pinned to the noticeboard for three weeks and if nobody objects during that time then I can then join (£25 a year). *I have a very obviously weird foreign name* so wouldn't be surprised if somebody were to voice concerns, but thats more about the town in general.


Sunak? Portillo? Javid? Mogg? Villiers? Kruger? Elphicke? Kwacyynski, Dinenage? Jayawadena? Fabricunt? All tory MPs.

Actually if you look at this list you're more likely to become a Labour MP if you have a sexy foreign name   










						List of MPs elected in the 2019 United Kingdom general election - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 29, 2022)

agricola said:


> Bumped because the _Mail on Sunday_ apparently have an exclusive tomorrow that during the first leadership election, Truss' mobile phone was compromised by hackers and they got a _years_ worth of messages, including messages critical of Johnson and some secret information.  The report also lays it on thick about private messages between her and Kwarteng being on there too, so I guess that is another rumour that is about to be confirmed.


Please let there be a text message where she calls Bojo Big Dogshit


----------



## maomao (Oct 29, 2022)

Vanilla sex scandals tend to play in the favour of the adulterer these days so I hope it's proper filth like he had his budget box full of her used tampons and was wanking into it or something.


----------



## MrSki (Oct 29, 2022)




----------



## nottsgirl (Oct 29, 2022)

MrSki said:


>



What is the scam there? I keep getting loads of those messages (no children).


----------



## MrSki (Oct 29, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> What is the scam there? I keep getting loads of those messages (no children).


Get a reply to the new number then follows a request for money. Lost card with phone etc.


----------



## steveseagull (Oct 29, 2022)

nottsgirl said:


> What is the scam there? I keep getting loads of those messages (no children).


The offspring has lost the phone/bank cards/money. They have a new sim in their friend's phone. Then asks for money to replace phone/need money to travel home. Probably works best if the offspring is travelling in a foreign country.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 29, 2022)

More details: 









						Liz Truss’s phone ‘hacked by Putin spies who obtained top secret information’
					

Calls for investigation into ‘extremely serious’ claims and allegations Boris Johnson kept them from public




					www.independent.co.uk
				






> Liz Truss’s mobile phone was hacked by agents presumed to be working for Russia’s Vladimir Putin during the Tory leadership race which propelled her briefly into Downing Street, according to an explosive report.
> 
> Opposition parties have demanded urgent investigation into whether the then foreign secretary’s phone was breached by Russian spies this summer and, if so, why the matter was kept from the public.
> 
> ...



oops - is this her official mobile phone we're presuming?


----------



## agricola (Oct 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> More details:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The article suggests it was her personal phone (since they said she had to change the number), which if true raises a whole load of other issues.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 29, 2022)

hmm so Russian is losing Kherson so lets attack liz truss


jebus the russian bot army must be grasping at straws at this point


----------



## Bingoman (Oct 29, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm so Russian is losing Kherson so lets attack liz truss
> 
> 
> jebus the russian bot army must be grasping at straws at this point


You got to remember she started the war according to Russia anyway


----------



## MrSki (Oct 29, 2022)

This story is a distraction from leakysue. Well it will keep it off the front pages anyhow.


----------



## agricola (Oct 29, 2022)

MrSki said:


> This story is a distraction from leakysue. Well it will keep it off the front pages anyhow.



this is vastly worse than leakysue


----------



## MrSki (Oct 29, 2022)

agricola said:


> this is vastly worse than leakysue


Yes but where was this story leaked from? Not many people would have known about it.


----------



## agricola (Oct 29, 2022)

MrSki said:


> Yes but where was this story leaked from? Not many people would have known about it.



Probably more than you'd think, and the Mail piece does mention that some form of news blackout was imposed.   It could even be leaked by someone close to Truss to discredit what might have been found on there.


----------



## Raheem (Oct 29, 2022)

If you knew
Leaky Sue,
You'd know things
You're not meant to.


----------



## MrSki (Oct 29, 2022)




----------



## muscovyduck (Oct 30, 2022)

What is leaky sue?


----------



## Raheem (Oct 30, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> What is leaky sue?


A Home Secretary wot leaks, m'lud.


----------



## muscovyduck (Oct 30, 2022)

Raheem said:


> A Home Secretary wot leaks, m'lud.


Thanks. It would also be a good name for a brand of rum imo


----------



## two sheds (Oct 30, 2022)

even leakier liz


----------



## MrSki (Oct 30, 2022)

agricola said:


> Probably more than you'd think, and the Mail piece does mention that some form of news blackout was imposed.   It could even be leaked by someone close to Truss to discredit what might have been found on there.


Yes there were supposedly private messages between her & Kwarteng. (nudge nudge say no more)


----------



## MrSki (Oct 30, 2022)

How long can Simon Case (cabinet secretary) remain in post? 

Him of the bring your own bottle invite to partygate & various other dodgy decisions.


----------



## MrSki (Oct 30, 2022)




----------



## bluescreen (Oct 30, 2022)

Leaky Sue and Trickledown Truss. Hmm. A new sort of Tory wet.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 30, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Leaky Sue and Trickledown Truss. Hmm. A new sort of Tory wet.



You mean Lettuce Liz.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 30, 2022)

MrSki said:


>


Rishi hasn't figured out that you sit down on the seat on a bus. This is because buses are for plebs


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2022)

MrSki said:


>


The original picture shows sunak acting as a ticket inspector


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 30, 2022)

MrSki said:


> How long can Simon Case (cabinet secretary) remain in post?
> 
> Him of the bring your own bottle invite to partygate & various other dodgy decisions.


Until someone relieves case of the documents that form the basis of his influence over sunak


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 30, 2022)

muscovyduck said:


> Thanks. It would also be a good name for a brand of rum imo


Or incontinence pads


----------



## gosub (Oct 30, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Rishi hasn't figured out that you sit down on the seat on a bus. This is because buses are for plebs


Have to say I wasn't impressed by the company last time I rode the omnibus from kensal to Clapham innit!


----------



## Duncan2 (Oct 30, 2022)

Gawd- leaks lettuces what's next one wonders.None of this could have happened if Corbyn had won in 2019


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 30, 2022)

gosub said:


> Have to say I wasn't impressed by the company last time I rode the omnibus from kensal to Clapham innit!


Where does one seat one's valet?


----------



## gosub (Oct 30, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> Where does one seat one's valet?


Gaud knows! Was more a prolifiration of kids all of which seemed not to have benefited much from a free education


----------



## elbows (Oct 30, 2022)

The fucking Mail seem to have found more people happy to brief against Truss now, including stuff about how she became obsessed with weather forecasts because of the threat of radiation from possible Russian actions.


----------



## gosub (Oct 30, 2022)

__





						archive.ph
					





					archive.ph
				




On tour with Team Truss: diva demands and a lot of selfies​


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 31, 2022)

MrSki said:


> Yes there were supposedly private messages between her & Kwarteng. (nudge nudge say no more)


TBF, the rumours about Truss getting Kwarteng (& sundry others) to enter her back door, have been around since she became a minister. Obviously, for her power may have been a great aphrodisiac.


----------



## gosub (Oct 31, 2022)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, the rumours about Truss getting Kwarteng (& sundry others) to enter her back door, have been around since she became a minister. Obviously, for her power may have been a great aphrodisiac.


Whips black book only listed staffer


----------



## gosub (Oct 31, 2022)

gosub said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sept 24 New York... Truss as Trade Sec

But Truss had bigger matters on her mind as she arrived in New York. Johnson was to meet President Trump the next afternoon. “I have to get into that bilat [bilateral meeting],” she told her private office and Spads. “Get me in the room for the Trump meeting.” But overtures to No 10 had fallen on deaf ears. With every possible lever pulled by Truss’s team, they were yet to get her in the room. Frantic phone calls to Lister, Cain and political secretary Ben Gascoigne all met a firm no. An aide recalls: “She was putting pressure on all of us to speak to everyone and sort it out, but by the night before, it was clear we were getting nowhere.” On the morning of Tuesday, September 24, Truss was due to speak at a business breakfast with Johnson. A change of tack was needed. “I need to speak to Boris first thing,” Truss told aides that evening. Wanting to look the part, she instructed a junior official from her private office to book her a blow-dry in her hotel room for 7am.
That same morning a political bomb detonated in Westminster. The government had been defeated in the Supreme Court, with an attempt to suspend parliament to avoid Brexit rows ruled illegal by the highest judges in the land. As Lady Hale read her withering verdict in London, Johnson’s entire government wobbled under mounting calls to resign. He was mobbed by the travelling press pack, holed up in his hotel suite, working out a response.
Down the corridor, Truss was having a crisis too: the hairdresser had failed to turn up. ....
Johnson’s business breakfast was a carnival of chaos. Appearing for the first time publicly since the Supreme Court news had dropped, Johnson was met by shouts from broadcasters, full of questions as the British team arrived to meet and greet some of the most powerful executives in New York. While some aides desperately tried to keep Truss away from the baying press pack, others tried to keep her on track with meeting people including billionaire BlackRock boss Larry Fink. “There were certain people she just had to meet that day, but she had absolutely no interest. There were serious big cheeses there but she only wanted to collar Boris.”

With Johnson ushered to waiting cameras to address the TV news back home, Truss missed her moment before his speech. And after he addressed the news from London during his remarks, he was mobbed by businesspeople wanting their 30 seconds with power. A witness recalls: “Liz was watching like a hawk for the entire half-hour he was talking. Eventually Boris’s security people got in there to ease him out because he was on a time constraint, so they began to pull him away towards a back entrance. And Liz just follows the entourage.” With Truss disappearing for ten minutes down a back staircase, her team were left bewildered as to where she had gone.

“Finally she emerged back in the room like the cat that got the cream,” an aide says. “She was grinning ear to ear when she told us, ‘We’re in. I’ve sorted it and none of you f***ers did anything!’ And she was absolutely correct. Liz knew she would get Boris to say yes if she could just get in front of him, and so she did and he folded after two minutes. It was genuinely impressive.” Where officials stood in her path, Truss the wrecking ball had struck again.


tbf: She was n't wrong about “You can’t have Lighthizer in there and not me,”, but that is an explanation of the mini budget in a nutshell


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 31, 2022)

The Sunday Times piece is an extract from the much mocked forthcoming biography of Truss, originally announced before she was booted. It now has a change of cover.






.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 31, 2022)

I shall be downloading that book for free as soon as it ends up on one of those sites.


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 31, 2022)

I do enjoy a good pamphlet


----------



## andysays (Oct 31, 2022)

Karl Masks said:


> I do enjoy a good pamphlet


I wonder if it's available as a PDF


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 31, 2022)

Blimey, there's another book...



Apparently it's 100 pages, I assume only 2 actually contains any text.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 31, 2022)

1. putting up peoples' mortgages by £500/month
2, Crashing the pound
3. Errr ..


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 31, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Blimey, there's another book...
> 
> View attachment 349608
> 
> Apparently it's 100 pages, I assume only 2 actually contains any text.





> To commemorate Liz Truss' record-breaking 45 days in office, we set to write an equally memorable book detailing her greatest accomplishments. But, just like her policies, our work was sadly undone. Here's a blank notebook for your troubles.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 31, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Blimey, there's another book...
> 
> View attachment 349608
> 
> Apparently it's 100 pages, I assume only 2 actually contains any text.


years back in the virgin megastore there was a book 'everything that men know about women', and when i looked inside all the pages were blank. i think as you do that this will be as informative


----------



## moochedit (Oct 31, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Blimey, there's another book...
> 
> View attachment 349608
> 
> Apparently it's 100 pages, I assume only 2 actually contains any text.


Gotta be a spoof surely?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 31, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Gotta be a spoof surely?


I think the lettuce is a clue.


----------



## gosub (Oct 31, 2022)

Dial S for skip fire – Liz Truss had her phone hacked ‘by the Russians’ and Johnson covered it up
					

Just when you thought you could forget Liz Truss and concentrate on the probable end stage of Suella Braverman’s career, the Mail on Sunday has revealed that Liz Truss’s personal mobile phone was hacked and a year’s worth of messages downloaded, with the chief suspects being Russia. It is...




					www.thepoke.co.uk


----------



## Karl Masks (Oct 31, 2022)

andysays said:


> I wonder if it's available as a PDF


The Analects of Confused Truss


----------



## A380 (Oct 31, 2022)




----------



## Artaxerxes (Nov 1, 2022)

Goodbye the heroes of the Truss Takedown


----------



## teqniq (Nov 1, 2022)

Wow. If there's a connection that's pretty vindictive. Nobody told her she had to go on local BBC radio.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 1, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Wow. If there's a connection that's pretty vindictive. Nobody told her she had to go on local BBC radio.



There isn't a connection, these changes have been planned for some months, whilst various local BBC stations will share more programmes outside of breakfast & lunch times, local news, traffic & weather will be inserted for the different stations sharing the overall programmes, eg BBC Radio Kent will share more programmes with BBC Radio Sussex, but they will still have separate news bulletins.

The various different breakfast shows, which Truss appeared on, are not being cancelled. 

Whilst overall there has to be cuts, they are moving resources to cover local news online more.

BBC to create more than 130 local news jobs – but more roles to be axed


----------



## Tanya1982 (Nov 2, 2022)

On breakfast news, there were a couple of Tory insiders talking about how she's personally shattered, an emotional wreck, life in ruins around her, hopes abandoned and dreams turned to dust, barely able to function, stumbling on a precipice, friends and family worried sick.

Maybe they were just trying to offer the nation something positive, but it seemed like a departure from the way people in public life are usually talked about. There was raw pity about actual breakdown rather than anything more jokey. I was quite struck by the tone of it.

If she was watching, it would've sent her deep inside another bottle. It was killing with kindness.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> Maybe they were just trying to offer the nation something positive



Glass half full


----------



## stdP (Nov 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> she's personally shattered, an emotional wreck, life in ruins around her, hopes abandoned and dreams turned to dust, barely able to function, stumbling on a precipice, friends and family worried sick.



Of course, Truss would never be part of a party that's been gleefully heaping those exact same symptoms on millions of non-party members for years already.

I think all this says to me is that maybe she's got a soupçon more conscience than some of her contemporaries but my flint-like heart can't really empathise with a failure all of her own making.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 2, 2022)

stdP said:


> I think all this says to me is that maybe she's got a soupçon more conscience than some of her contemporaries


Not sure I'd even give her that. She's broken because she failed. She'll go down in history as a massive failure. An epic failure. She is crying for herself, nobody else.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 2, 2022)

Or for now impoverished bankers and other rich people perhaps?

Mind you, last I heard she was partying


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 2, 2022)

What's that you say? Truss is upset? Good. She can fuck right off.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Mind you, last I heard she was partying



"Praying," I think. That's autocorrect on the new iPhone Chetyrnadtsat for you


----------



## gosub (Nov 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> On breakfast news, there were a couple of Tory insiders talking about how she's personally shattered, an emotional wreck, life in ruins around her, hopes abandoned and dreams turned to dust, barely able to function, stumbling on a precipice, friends and family worried sick.
> 
> Maybe they were just trying to offer the nation something positive, but it seemed like a departure from the way people in public life are usually talked about. There was raw pity about actual breakdown rather than anything more jokey. I was quite struck by the tone of it.
> 
> If she was watching, it would've sent her deep inside another bottle. It was killing with kindness.


If I were her, I'd lay off the coffee, and maybe get a script for some zopis.  
Sleep is a restorative.
Her dreams may be shattered, but she is young enough to make fresh ones.


----------



## Yossarian (Nov 2, 2022)

After the damage done by the Tories over the last 12 years, we're supposed to feel sorry for poor, sad Liz Truss? 

I hope her husband leaves her, her kids disown her, and she gets mauled by a badger.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Nov 2, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> After the damage done by the Tories over the last 12 years, we're supposed to feel sorry for poor, sad Liz Truss?
> 
> I hope her husband leaves her, her kids disown her, and she gets mauled by a badger.


Yeh, fuck her. Felt sorry for the kids though. I know what it's like to have a Tory dad.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Nov 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> On breakfast news, there were a couple of Tory insiders talking about how she's personally shattered, an emotional wreck, life in ruins around her, hopes abandoned and dreams turned to dust, barely able to function, stumbling on a precipice, friends and family worried sick.
> 
> Maybe they were just trying to offer the nation something positive, but it seemed like a departure from the way people in public life are usually talked about. There was raw pity about actual breakdown rather than anything more jokey. I was quite struck by the tone of it.
> 
> If she was watching, it would've sent her deep inside another bottle. It was killing with kindness.


Boo fucking hoo.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> On breakfast news, there were a couple of Tory insiders talking about how she's personally shattered, an emotional wreck, life in ruins around her, hopes abandoned and dreams turned to dust, barely able to function, stumbling on a precipice, friends and family worried sick.
> 
> Maybe they were just trying to offer the nation something positive, but it seemed like a departure from the way people in public life are usually talked about. There was raw pity about actual breakdown rather than anything more jokey. I was quite struck by the tone of it.
> 
> If she was watching, it would've sent her deep inside another bottle. It was killing with kindness.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 2, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not sure I'd even give her that. She's broken because she failed. She'll go down in history as a massive failure. An epic failure. She is crying for herself, nobody else.



Yeah if she gave half a shit about anyone else she wouldn't be in this position now.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Nov 2, 2022)

Calamity1971 said:


> Boo fucking hoo.


Yes. As I said, 'maybe they were trying to offer something positive to the nation' in twisting the knife so nicely.


----------



## Tanya1982 (Nov 2, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> *After the damage done by the Tories over the last 12 years, we're supposed to feel sorry for poor, sad Liz Truss?*
> 
> I hope her husband leaves her, her kids disown her, and she gets mauled by a badger.


No.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Nov 2, 2022)

stdP said:


> Of course, Truss would never be part of a party that's been gleefully heaping those exact same symptoms on millions of non-party members for years already.
> 
> I think all this says to me is that maybe she's got a soupçon more conscience than some of her contemporaries but my flint-like heart can't really empathise with a failure all of her own making.



Unlike many of us, she's not going to worry about paying bills while struggling mentally.  Is it £115,00 a year for life?  If I was her, I'd just fuck off to a nice island somewhere with my family.


----------



## ska invita (Nov 2, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Unlike many of us, she's not going to worry about paying bills while struggling mentally.  Is it £115,00 a year for life?  If I was her, I'd just fuck off to a nice island somewhere with my family.


south georgia is nice this time of year 🐧🩸


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 2, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Unlike many of us, she's not going to worry about paying bills while struggling mentally.  Is it £115,00 a year for life?  If I was her, I'd just fuck off to a nice island somewhere with my family.


Is there a Pret on the island?


----------



## prunus (Nov 2, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Unlike many of us, she's not going to worry about paying bills while struggling mentally.  *Is it £115,00 a year for life?*  If I was her, I'd just fuck off to a nice island somewhere with my family.



While she’s indeed unlikely to be worrying about paying (essential) bills the answer to this bit is no, it’s not.  She will get very little if anything extra at any point from her disastruss term (possibly a few weeks of enhanced pension contributions). 

And it may be a failure of empathy but I cannot feel sorry for her at all.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Nov 2, 2022)

Maybe I'm a Cunt Celeb... next year for her then?


----------



## Dom Traynor (Nov 2, 2022)

I hope she tops herself. How many people have died because of her and her mates?


----------



## philosophical (Nov 2, 2022)

How can she be shattered when she had the right stuff to take on Putin and win?


----------



## brogdale (Nov 2, 2022)

Wait till Putin starts dripping out the contents of her hacked phone!


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Wait till Putin starts dripping out the contents of her hacked phone!


why would he even bother


----------



## prunus (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> why would he even bother



Shitz and gigglez.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 2, 2022)

prunus said:


> While she’s indeed unlikely to be worrying about paying (essential) bills the answer to this bit is no, it’s not.  She will get very little if anything extra at any point from her disastruss term (possibly a few weeks of enhanced pension contributions).











						The facts around former PMs’ £115,000 annual ‘allowance’ - Full Fact
					

They are allowed to claim back up to £115,000 each year for the costs associated with continuing public duties—but it’s not a “salary”.




					fullfact.org


----------



## Storm Fox (Nov 2, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The facts around former PMs’ £115,000 annual ‘allowance’ - Full Fact
> 
> 
> They are allowed to claim back up to £115,000 each year for the costs associated with continuing public duties—but it’s not a “salary”.
> ...


So yeah basically a salary. Once she forms a company that rents out an office from a landlord for £1000 a month and then re-rent it out to Truss for £5k and all her family are 'secretaries'


----------



## prunus (Nov 2, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> So yeah basically a salary. Once she forms a company that rents out an office from a landlord for £1000 a month and then re-rent it out to Truss for £5k and all her family are 'secretaries'



That would be fraud. The money has to be spent on actual expenses incurred running an office that executes actual public duties.  

Of course if she’s willing to do illegal things then there are many ways open to her to make money,  as there are to most of us.


----------



## Storm Fox (Nov 2, 2022)

prunus said:


> That would be fraud. The money has to be spent on actual expenses incurred running an office that executes actual public duties.
> 
> Of course if she’s willing to do illegal things then there are many ways open to her to make money,  as there are to most of us.


Well of course they are all honourable and wouldn't do that.









						Family Affair: Nearly 90 MPs Still Employing Family Members With Taxpayer Money
					

63 per cent of those MPs who employ relatives are from the Conservative party, followed by Labour on 26 per cent.




					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk


----------



## prunus (Nov 2, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Well of course they are all honourable and wouldn't do that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My point is that she’s not being given some automatic stipend as a reward for 6 weeks of chaos. She has to grift for it, and basically break the law (if she wants personal benefit).  Maybe she will, maybe she won’t, but if she does then it’s that that gets the ire, not the theoretical possibility of it.  And she certainly couldn’t use it to go and live on an island somewhere. 

Anyway that’s the last I’m saying on the matter!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> why would he even bother


I suppose it depends on what they've got, (if it was the Russians?), but if there were material that might potentially cause political embarrassment/discomfort, particularly related to Ukraine or surviving ministers etc, why wouldn't he?


----------



## contadino (Nov 2, 2022)

She can sit back and take a relieved sigh. Others have the ongoing issue of higher mortgage payments to deal with.

I wouldn't pin the energy crisis on her - that was Cameron compounded by Johnson.
I wouldn't pin the Covid debt on her - that was May compounded by Johnson.

But Truss owns all the mortgages that got rejected in her tenure, plus the inflated mortgage rates now on offer, and all the government debt that has a higher repayment cost than before her little economic adventure.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 2, 2022)

tbf she achieved a lasting legacy with just over a month in charge. That's pretty impressive.


----------



## Smangus (Nov 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> On breakfast news, there were a couple of Tory insiders talking about how she's personally shattered, an emotional wreck, life in ruins around her, hopes abandoned and dreams turned to dust, barely able to function, stumbling on a precipice, friends and family worried sick.
> 
> Maybe they were just trying to offer the nation something positive, but it seemed like a departure from the way people in public life are usually talked about. There was raw pity about actual breakdown rather than anything more jokey. I was quite struck by the tone of it.
> 
> If she was watching, it would've sent her deep inside another bottle. It was killing with kindness.



Fuck her , hope she drowns in it.


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 2, 2022)

Tanya1982 said:


> On breakfast news, there were a couple of Tory insiders talking about how she's personally shattered, an emotional wreck, life in ruins around her, hopes abandoned and dreams turned to dust, barely able to function, stumbling on a precipice, friends and family worried sick.


This has cheered me up no end, thanks.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

I’m not sure her family are worried sick. Her dad has disowned her and no longer speaks to her.

I favour her being dehelicoptered along with Anderson, Braverman, Kwarteng, Patel, Badenoch and IDS. Fuck it, dehelicopter the whole lot of em


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I’m not sure her family are worried sick. Her dad has disowned her and no longer speaks to her.
> 
> I favour her being dehelicoptered along with Anderson, Braverman, Kwarteng, Patel, Badenoch and IDS. Fuck it, dehelicopter the whole lot of em



Helicopter to Rwanda, with a wee stop off over a deep body of water somewhere.


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Her dad has disowned her and no longer speaks to her.


is this actually true?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Helicopter to Rwanda, with a wee stop off over a deep body of water somewhere.


Not the English Channel, where she may land in a dinghy bursting with refugees who would probably rescue her and treat her kindly, only to get a different welcome when they get to England


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 2, 2022)

Hmm... not keen on the whole "dehelicopter" thing as it has a horrible background (Pinochet, memes by US far right gobshites). I much prefer Pickman's model's more humane South Atlantic approach.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> is this actually true?


Apparently so.


----------



## Bingoman (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> is this actually true?


I ve heard that


----------



## two sheds (Nov 2, 2022)

And I started the rumour so it's from a reliable source.


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I ve heard that


where?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> And I started the rumour so it's from a reliable source.


I heard it from my dad, who is friends with the partner of a colleague of John Truss, who’s a retired (emeritus) professor of pure maths at Leeds University and who thinks Corbyn was too soft. 
I wouldn’t believe it if I read it in a tabloid, mind.


----------



## Bingoman (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> where?


I saw a news piece on the day when she became Tory Leader


----------



## steveo87 (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> where?


Trust me, bro.


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2022)

TBH Orang Utan's source is at least as good as the source of the tabloid stories about their relationship (the worst I can find in the papers is one about him being distraught and refusing to talk about her) so I'll let it go this time.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> TBH Orang Utan's source is at least as good as the source of the tabloid stories about their relationship (the worst I can find in the papers is one about him being distraught and refusing to talk about her) so I'll let it go this time.


It’s not a ‘source’ ffs. I don’t claim to be a journalist. It’s technically hearsay.


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2022)

so are the newspaper stories!


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> so are the newspaper stories!


Aye, I wouldn’t dream of informing a newspaper but am happy to say it here


----------



## maomao (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s not a ‘source’ ffs. I don’t claim to be a journalist. It’s technically hearsay.


Hearsay has sources.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

maomao said:


> Hearsay has sources.


Wevs, I don’t expect posts on here to be rigorously sourced and held to journalistic standards, when people are just shooting the shit


----------



## two sheds (Nov 2, 2022)

Effigy of Liz Truss with lettuce to be burned at Edenbridge bonfire night
					

Huge effigy bearing slogan ‘I am a fighter, not a quitter’ will be burned on 5 November as part of annual tradition




					www.theguardian.com
				




 (((Lizzy lizzy lizzy))) 

she's finally arrived then


----------



## steeplejack (Nov 2, 2022)

Liz Truss, a preening, talentless narcissist, is in the worst position of all; having briefly tasted the highest office but destined to go down in the annals as so compellingly shit and out of her depth in that office, that history will spend the next few centuries basically pointing and laughing at her. She's someone who made it to the top through talking over others, and no one will be listening ever again.

Future A-level questions won't ask for an assessment of her time in office- there's not really going to be enough of an evidence base- but will ask for an assessment of the conditions that projected a charmless nonentity, so devoid of any redeeming qualities, into the role of PM in the first place.

I hope the shame and humiliation fucking choke her for whatever time she has left.


----------



## Fuzzy (Nov 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Effigy of Liz Truss with lettuce to be burned at Edenbridge bonfire night
> 
> 
> Huge effigy bearing slogan ‘I am a fighter, not a quitter’ will be burned on 5 November as part of annual tradition
> ...


I'm guessing she'll also be the star attraction at lewes bonfire celebrations this year as well.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 2, 2022)

Fuzzy said:


> I'm guessing she'll also be the star attraction at lewes bonfire celebrations this year as well.


I think you'll find that'll be the lettuce.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Nov 2, 2022)

She is the George Lazenby of PMs.  She might end up as an answer in Trivial Pursuit.


----------



## A380 (Nov 2, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> Liz Truss, a preening, talentless narcissist, is in the worst position of all; having briefly tasted the highest office but destined to go down in the annals as so compellingly shit and out of her depth in that office, that history will spend the next few centuries basically pointing and laughing at her. She's someone who made it to the top through talking over others, and no one will be listening ever again.
> 
> Future A-level questions won't ask for an assessment of her time in office- there's not really going to be enough of an evidence base- but will ask for an assessment of the conditions that projected a charmless nonentity, so devoid of any redeeming qualities, into the role of PM in the first place.
> 
> I hope the shame and humiliation fucking choke her for whatever time she has left.


Not even that, Her legacy is to be a  pub quiz question, that will be seen as the sum total of her life's achievements...


----------



## belboid (Nov 2, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> She is the George Lazenby of PMs.  She might end up as an answer in Trivial Pursuit.


Naah, George Lazenby did a good job.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

Johnny Vodka said:


> She is the George Lazenby of PMs.  She might end up as an answer in Trivial Pursuit.


Does this mean someone close to her will be assassinated soon?


----------



## Smangus (Nov 2, 2022)

Fuzzy said:


> I'm guessing she'll also be the star attraction at lewes bonfire celebrations this year as well.



A lettuce for the 4th plinth


----------



## Dom Traynor (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Does this mean someone close to her will be assassinated soon?


Not her father then? I heard they're estranged.


----------



## maomao (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Wevs, I don’t expect posts on here to be rigorously sourced and held to journalistic standards, when people are just shooting the shit


No-one's rigorously examining your sources, we're just wondering where you got it from for when we repeat it down the pub.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 2, 2022)

I heard Liz Truss was estranged from her father from a very relishable sauce I made earlier.


----------



## MrSki (Nov 2, 2022)




----------



## Santino (Nov 2, 2022)

MrSki said:


>


Whoever wrote this article doesn't even know what a university chancellor is.

Also, presumably Truss senior is a Dr or Prof, not a Mr.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> I heard Liz Truss was estranged from her father from a very relishable sauce I made earlier.
> 
> View attachment 349977


Where’s the lettuce?


----------



## MrSki (Nov 2, 2022)

If this tweet is to be believed then he is the socailistprof.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

MrSki said:


> If this tweet is to be believed then he is the socailistprof.


That’s deffo not him ffs!


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 2, 2022)

Thats a very obviously parody account and where I suspect some of this 'father has disowned her' stuff has come from, and its bound to be bollocks.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

stethoscope said:


> Thats a very obviously parody account and where I suspect some of this 'father has disowned her' stuff has come from, and its bound to be bollocks.


Don’t you trust me?


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Don’t you trust me?


How to put this gently


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 2, 2022)

belboid said:


> Naah, George Lazenby did a good job.


At delivering the Milk Tray?


----------



## Cid (Nov 2, 2022)

ska invita said:


> south georgia is nice this time of year 🐧🩸



Missed opportunity...

Oh, she'll be paying the bills...



<inserst CSI meme>


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

stethoscope said:


> How to put this gently


 I am telling the truth.


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I am telling the truth.


Show us your evidence


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

stethoscope said:


> Show us your evidence


How could I get evidence of a reported conversation? I don’t like being called a liar tbh


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 2, 2022)

I hadn't actually seen your post, sorry


----------



## killer b (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> That’s deffo not him ffs!


seems churlish to be doubting mrski's testimony when we're all just shooting the breeze tbh


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 2, 2022)

Tweet from Liz Truss’s father calling her ‘poo-poo bear’ is fake - Full Fact
					

Her father did not tweet saying she couldn’t tie her shoelaces until she was 12.




					fullfact.org


----------



## two sheds (Nov 2, 2022)

So he tweeted that she _could _tie her shoelaces by the time she was 12?


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Where’s the lettuce?


At this time of year on the welsh border, what the fuck do you think were growing in, a polytunnel? We don't get the gulf stream here lad ffs, well we do but next doors mansion probably absorbs it.

I chopped a bit of kale into it which will be coming into season in the raised beds over the next month. We ate all the lettuce having BBQ's with the grown up kids showing off at our 'good life' salad production prowess and then it went cloudy and wet. For months on end 

Still the winter veg is looking lush though which is more than can be said for the relationship between Liz and her farther.


----------



## redcogs (Nov 2, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> At this time of year on the welsh border, what the fuck do you think were growing in, a polytunnel? We don't get the gulf stream here lad ffs, well we do but next doors mansion probably absorbs it.
> 
> I chopped a bit of kale into it which will be coming into season in the raised beds over the next month. We ate all the lettuce having BBQ's with the grown up kids showing off at our 'good life' salad production prowess and then it went cloudy and wet. For months on end
> 
> Still the winter veg is looking lush though which is more than can be said for the relationship between Liz and her *farther*.


i get this friedaweed!  Farther being more distant, as in estranged, not speaking, remote from etc etc


----------



## kabbes (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> How could I get evidence of a reported conversation? I don’t like being called a liar tbh


FWIW, I do believe that somebody genuinely told you that a friend of a partner of a colleague said something about someone. 

I’m just not sure I believe that the thing that somebody told you that a friend of a partner of a colleague said is necessarily gospel truth.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> FWIW, I do believe that somebody genuinely told you that a friend of a partner of a colleague said something about someone.
> 
> I’m just not sure I believe that the thing that somebody told you that a friend of a partner of a colleague said is necessarily gospel truth.


Which is perfectly reasonable. I think a titbit becomes an urban myth when it has been removed from the person it happened to by three or four degrees, depending on how trustworthy each teller is. So I believe a story told to my father by the colleague of the person the story is about but I can see why someone I’d never met wouldn’t believe the story as they don’t know any of the parties who related the story


----------



## steeplejack (Nov 2, 2022)

who cares what anyone believes? it's a message board ffs not a court room. everyone talks shite here your scribe included.


----------



## iona (Nov 2, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> At this time of year on the welsh border, what the fuck do you think were growing in, a polytunnel? We don't get the gulf stream here lad ffs, well we do but next doors mansion probably absorbs it.
> 
> I chopped a bit of kale into it which will be coming into season in the raised beds over the next month. We ate all the lettuce having BBQ's with the grown up kids showing off at our 'good life' salad production prowess and then it went cloudy and wet. For months on end
> 
> Still the winter veg is looking lush though which is more than can be said for the relationship between Liz and her farther.


Have you tried any of the winter lettuce varieties? Some of the hardiest ones will cope with proper snow and everything. [/derail]


----------



## kabbes (Nov 2, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> . So I believe a story told to my father by the colleague of the person the story is about but I can see why someone I’d never met wouldn’t believe the story as they don’t know any of the parties who related the story


Ah, but what about a story told to your father by _the partner_ of a colleague of the person that the story is about?


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 2, 2022)

iona said:


> Have you tried any of the winter lettuce varieties? Some of the hardiest ones will cope with proper snow and everything. [/derail]


I shall pass that information on to my wife Monty Donna. 😉 thanks iona x


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Ah, but what about a story told to your father by _the partner_ of a colleague of the person that the story is about?


I know her so I trust her, but in this case, the colleague/her partner told the story to my dad


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Ah, but what about a story told to your father by _the partner_ of a colleague of the person that the story is about?


I wouldn't believe anything my dad relays to me by anyone since his dementia kicked in. He told me our uncle Ted had had an affair with my mum but what had actually happened was she bumped into him at the fair with his son. He gets very confused nowadays and everyone knows uncle Ted's been knocking aunty Jude  off for years.


----------



## redcogs (Nov 2, 2022)

i would usually have the greatest sympathy when a father and daughter become estranged from one another, even if they were unknown to me.  But someone told me that in this case sympathy for the daughter might be misconceived.   Mrs redcogs heard the same from one of her works colleagues (whose moral antenna is acute).  i am therefore prepared to withhold a personal judgement until Urban's  wisest have deliberated and reached a unanimous verdict.  our postie believes similarly but is confused as to which Urbanites are wise and which are not.  i completely understand the posties view (particularly as he/she has never read any Urban material whatsoever).  i was told by the baker that  insomnia can be most damaging to sleep patterns..  Bakers are early risers and their judgements are known to be sound.


----------



## gosub (Nov 3, 2022)

prunus said:


> My point is that she’s not being given some automatic stipend as a reward for 6 weeks of chaos. She has to grift for it, and basically break the law (if she wants personal benefit).  Maybe she will, maybe she won’t, but if she does then it’s that that gets the ire, not the theoretical possibility of it.  And she certainly couldn’t use it to go and live on an island somewhere.
> 
> Anyway that’s the last I’m saying on the matter!


She fucking does live on an island somewhere you numpty. She could make a fortune having added a whole set of adjectives and adverbs to the lexicon. Should probably trademark Truss and revert to using her married name.  There is bound to be a cheese or a bacon company; a mobile phone company even, that could use her for promotion


----------



## two sheds (Nov 3, 2022)

🎵🎶"Bring a Truss, get the bus to enjoy .... pork markets" 🎶🎵


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 3, 2022)

Truss says... 
Eata
Pounda
Cheese
A
Day!


----------



## bimble (Nov 7, 2022)

just enjoyed this headline in the daily mail today, seemed the right thread for it


----------



## brogdale (Nov 7, 2022)

bimble said:


> just enjoyed this headline in the daily mail today, seemed the right thread for it
> View attachment 350546


Because his _rootless intellectual_ father hated Britain, whereas Truss senior merely disagreed with his daughter’s politics.


----------



## bimble (Nov 7, 2022)

he wouldn't have done much for the pork markets though


----------



## gosub (Nov 7, 2022)

bimble said:


> he wouldn't have done much for the pork markets though


Joke aside (edgy but clever)  What went on there was swine flu fucked China's pig industry and they had to reboot, and that was not a small ask.  Which explains a few things, without wanting to sound alarmist but China pretty much has a zero Swine flu doctrine thats up there with their zero covid one


----------



## bimble (Nov 7, 2022)

i am confused but not remotely alarmed by whatever it is you're saying about Chinese pigs gosub


----------



## gosub (Nov 7, 2022)

bimble said:


> i am confused but not remotely alarmed by whatever it is you're saying about Chinese pigs gosub


When she said she would be in china expanding pork markets or whatever it was she said she was doing.  If you don't think Mr Milliband would have been capable... it was demand lead.  If its confusion on the Milliband end...have to say now he isn't trying so hard to try and run the country his sense of humour shines thru


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 7, 2022)

Lord Camomile said:


> If the entire Labour party doesn't turn up in t-shirts with this printed on them, they're missing an enormous trick.


Eh, I suppose it'll do.


----------



## Bingoman (Nov 10, 2022)

I found out Liz Truss had sacked me on Twitter, ex-chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng reveals
					

The former chancellor, who was sacked when the markets headed into a tailspin, says he told the-then PM: "You will have two months if you carry on like this."




					news.sky.com


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2022)

It would have been more impressive if he had said something before the mini budget, too late afterwards.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Nov 11, 2022)

'believe' by cher was number 1 for longer than liz truss was prime minister...


----------



## andysays (Nov 11, 2022)

Bingoman said:


> I found out Liz Truss had sacked me on Twitter, ex-chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng reveals
> 
> 
> The former chancellor, who was sacked when the markets headed into a tailspin, says he told the-then PM: "You will have two months if you carry on like this."
> ...



Two months was a bit optimistic, as it turned out...


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## Supine (Nov 11, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> 'believe' by cher was number 1 for longer than liz truss was prime minister...



Was she prime minister? Must have missed that


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## Serge Forward (Nov 11, 2022)

Supine said:


> Was she prime minister? Must have missed that


Only if she could turn back time.


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## PR1Berske (Nov 13, 2022)




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## Wilf (Nov 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



I suspect we've all got about 50 years ahead of us, paying back the £30,000,000,000 hole in the UK finances she personally created.

Suppose it's a reminder of the entitlement and insulation from their actions that defines the lives of the elite, why she hasn't been run out of public life etc. Not sure where she is in the list of idiots who have wasted the largest amounts of money - Blair must be well up there with his wars - but she must be close to the top with regard to money wasted/days in office.  My shaky maths says £600 million a day.


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## rubbershoes (Dec 16, 2022)

Liz on Charlie

Explains a lot


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## Chz (Dec 16, 2022)

To be honest, I'd _hope_ she was coked up. Would be a sorry excuse for a human being if that was her normal state of being.


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## Plumdaff (Dec 16, 2022)

Maybe we've found the only people in the world who become less cunty on coke? 

(yes I know. Sadly not true)


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## Ground Elder (Dec 16, 2022)

> A spokesperson for her said in a one-line statement: “This is categorically untrue.”



Wonder what they'd have said after a second line


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## emanymton (Dec 16, 2022)

Who?


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