# My Fathers Place on Coldharbour Lane to become a cocktail bar



## editor (Feb 3, 2014)

So it's goodbye to this long serving Caribbean restaurant and hello to the world of 'cocktail therapy' and 'modern speakeasy's. 

It's set to open in Easter - the name is yet to be decided, but these are the people behind it: Chris & Dave of @saltsearth.

More here: http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/02/...my-fathers-place-on-coldharbour-lane-brixton/


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## Ninjaprints (Feb 3, 2014)

I always used to walk past that place daily, looked pretty chilled but the only time I went in I was not exactly warmly greeted.

a cocktail bar on chl? just what we needed


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## Crispy (Feb 3, 2014)

Not even the "wrong side of the tracks" is safe from change now.


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## Ninjaprints (Feb 3, 2014)

I suppose they can be glad that the council estate opposite has such small prison like windows rather than large ones with people obviously glaring out


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

150 pages by opening day?


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## souljacker (Feb 3, 2014)

Thats a very sneery article. 



> Chris, who is lucky enough to be off skiing this week


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## T & P (Feb 3, 2014)

Champagne & Fromage's owners must be happy as fuck there's a new pantomime villain coming to town


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## stuff_it (Feb 3, 2014)

Ninjaprints said:


> I suppose they can be glad that the council estate opposite has such small prison like windows rather than large ones with people obviously glaring out


I think the people in the council estate should make spurious noise complaints regardless. All that braying will be hard to tolerate.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

stuff_it said:


> I think the people in the council estate should make spurious noise complaints regardless. All that braying will be hard to tolerate.


Nothing spurious about it.


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## T & P (Feb 3, 2014)

souljacker said:


> Thats a very sneery article.


I thought so as well. 'Thinly veiled contempt' would perhaps be a more appropriate description of it.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

So, in 5 years will there be door to door hipster heaven from the old Angel all the way up to Tescos on Acre Lane?


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

souljacker said:


> Thats a very sneery article.



Some might question the necessity of or motivations behind including the grainy cameraphone image of the chap, too.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Some might question the necessity of or motivations behind including the grainy cameraphone image of the chap, too.


Errr what? You mean the twitter pic the guy himself had uploaded, that Ed linked to?


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Errr what? You mean the twitter pic the guy himself had uploaded, that Ed linked to?


Yes. I'm not sure what it adds to the article.


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## Rushy (Feb 3, 2014)

Cocktail bar replaces closing wine bar shocker.

When was MFP last reliably and regularly open anyway?


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Yes. I'm not sure what it adds to the article.


Confirmation? You're scraping the barrel now aren't you. I can agree that the tone is sneery btw.


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

Has anyone on u75 ever eaten in Majestic Restaurant a few doors down by the way? Is it any good?


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## Dan U (Feb 3, 2014)

Wtf has his ski trip got to do with anything. That is like prefacing everything you do editor with 'has been to New York a few times' 

Your point is better than that crap I think.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 3, 2014)

It'll probably do wonders for the area, mix things up and give locals something to complain about.


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## editor (Feb 3, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Has anyone on u75 ever eaten in Majestic Restaurant a few doors down by the way? Is it any good?


My friends have been a few times, and said it was very good, but it's not one for the veggies.


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## editor (Feb 3, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Some might question the necessity of or motivations behind including the grainy cameraphone image of the chap, too.


It's how he announced the news about the new bar on the public Twitter stream for the bar so it seemed appropriate to include it given the lack of any other available illustrations.

He wrote back to thank me for posting up the article too, so he is presumably quite happy with the publicity.


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## editor (Feb 3, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It'll probably do wonders for the area, mix things up and give locals something to complain about.


I think you'll find many locals have already got lots of things to complain about, thanks. You know, dull things like the need for a soup kitchen, the rising inequality in the area, the low wages, the devastating impact of the bedroom tax etc etc.


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## George & Bill (Feb 3, 2014)

'handmade cocktails' - what an incredibly original concept, I am heartily sick of these robot-operated cocktails bars that seem to be all you can find these days!


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 3, 2014)

T & P said:


> Champagne & Fromage owners' must be happy as fuck there's a new pantomime villain coming to town



You mean, they haven't been ridden out of town on a rail after a tar-and-feathering by a mob yet?


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

I'm all for dedicated cocktail bars as they hopefully get all the cocktail drinkers out of other venues and out of my way clogging up the bar.


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## George & Bill (Feb 3, 2014)

Though I do agree that the sneeriness of the writeup doesn't really help the wider discussion around gentrification, though.


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## leanderman (Feb 3, 2014)

No complaints as long as they serve French 75s


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> No complaints as long as they serve French 75s


 Are they like Urban 75s?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Feb 3, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Are they like Urban 75s?




...only if they're made with marmite, real ale and irn bru.


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## cuppa tee (Feb 3, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> 'handmade cocktails' - what an incredibly original concept, I am heartily sick of these robot-operated cocktails bars that seem to be all you can find these days!


I tried making cocktails by hand once but it proved very difficult, I think it's generally better to use some sort of watertight container to mix the liquid ingredients....


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## George & Bill (Feb 3, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> I tried making cocktails by hand once but it proved very difficult, I think it's generally better to use some of watertight container to mix the liquid ingredients....



Idiot. 'Handmade' means something that has broadly been made by human rather than machine labour, that's all. People these days are fucking stupid


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## editor (Feb 3, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> Idiot. 'Handmade' means something that has broadly been made by human rather than machine labour, that's all. People these days are fucking stupid


How many cocktails are made by machine labour in a cocktail bar?


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## Belushi (Feb 3, 2014)

Area gets gentrified, the real shebeens close down to be replaced by fully licenced 'modern speakeasies'.


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## leanderman (Feb 3, 2014)

editor said:


> How many cocktails are made by machine labour in a cocktail bar?



You'd be disappointed if your cocktail was pre-mixed, can-style


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## George & Bill (Feb 3, 2014)

editor said:


> How many cocktails are made by machine labour in a cocktail bar?



None in my experience


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## CH1 (Feb 3, 2014)

Ninjaprints said:


> I suppose they can be glad that the council estate opposite has such small prison like windows rather than large ones with people obviously glaring out


The venue itself never had a blacked out front  - unlike the Angel, where the Brickbox Ladies cojoined with the Saltoun Supper Club to hold their controversial upper-class Victorian/Georgian fancy dress supper night the year before last.
Amazing what some folks will do behind blacked-out windows!


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## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 3, 2014)

I wonder how much it will cost for a slow comfortable screw?


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## han (Feb 3, 2014)

Hand-made cocktails. It's a bit like saying 'oven-baked' or 'pan-fried', isn't it. Stating the bleedin obvious, and pretentious.


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## Winot (Feb 3, 2014)

Plenty of bars use pre-mix for eg Bloody Mary. I guess it's to distinguish from that. But yes, irritating copy.


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## Rushy (Feb 3, 2014)

Winot said:


> Plenty of bars use pre-mix for eg Bloody Mary. I guess it's to distinguish from that. But yes, irritating copy.


Quite a few make their own bitters and other - er - stuff that goes in. Very different from more standard cocktail offerings.
I went on a little cocktail outing for London Cocktail Week last year and the difference between venues was pretty huge. Some really are quite crafted and subtle.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Quite a few make their own bitters and other - er - stuff that goes in. Very different from more standard cocktail offerings.
> I went on a little cocktail outing for London Cocktail Week last year and the difference between venues was pretty huge. Some really are quite crafted and subtle.


Which is great for one or two cocktails, any more than that and your tastebuds are shot to shit. Same with wine IME.


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## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

I


editor said:


> How many cocktails are made by machine labour in a cocktail bar?


In US dive bars, they serve margaritas out of things like slushy machines. They taste like no substance known to mankind but are oddly addictive


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> I
> 
> In US dive bars, they serve margaritas out of things like slushy machines. They taste like no substance known to mankind but are oddly addictive


That stuff is every bartender's lifesaver. It is exactly the same as a slushy machine, only with added alcohol. They should have something similar for daiquiris.


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## spanglechick (Feb 3, 2014)

i don't know quite what 'hand-made' alludes to.  In a few high-volume cocktail places (like dodgy provincial nightclubs) you get places that premix the complicated bits, and these can then be topped up with juice or whatever at point of sale.

the other option is that some cocktail bars make almost everything in blenders, but that's normally because they want a slushie effect (frozen margheritas/daquiris etc).

but neither are commonplace.  'Hand made' cocktails are almost universal.


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## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> That stuff is every bartender's lifesaver. It is exactly the same as a slushy machine, only with added alcohol. They should have something similar for daiquiris.


Means the queue moves quickly at least. My heart always sinks if the person before me orders something like three caipirinhas...


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## 8115 (Feb 3, 2014)

There are some very nasty (tasting and looking) prepackaged cocktails around.  They are in foil packets, you twist the lid, I can't think what the brand is called.

But "handmade" for cocktails is a stupid word.


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## Rushy (Feb 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Which is great for one or two cocktails, any more than that and your tastebuds are shot to shit. Same with wine IME.


Three or four and it is not just my tastebuds which are shot to shit, quite frankly.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Unless they actually make their own mixers and distil their own booze calling it "hand-made" is a brazen PR lie. It's on par with saying a pint is hand-made because it was poured into a glass.


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

They've really messed up here. Because they've used the word "handmade" their target audience is going to be repelled and they won't get any customers. If only they'd run things by the grumpy old folk of urban75 before publishing anything.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

teuchter said:


> They've really messed up here. Because they've used the word "handmade" their target audience is going to be repelled and they won't get any customers. If only they'd run things by the grumpy old folk of urban75 before publishing anything.


You're volunteering then I take it.


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## Crispy (Feb 3, 2014)

editor said:


> How many cocktails are made by machine labour in a cocktail bar?


There was a bar in one of the arches at London Bridge that had a robot arm that made cocktails.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...-of-the-week-Cynthias-Bar-and-Restaurant.html


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Crispy said:


> There was a bar in one of the arches at London Bridge that had a robot arm that made cocktails.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...-of-the-week-Cynthias-Bar-and-Restaurant.html


TBH I think a robotic cocktail-maker would be awesome. Perfect cocktails every time.


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## Rushy (Feb 3, 2014)

teuchter said:


> They've really messed up here. Because they've used the word "handmade" their target audience is going to be repelled and they won't get any customers. If only they'd run things by the grumpy old folk of urban75 before publishing anything.


I can see the angry crowds already. "Your yuppie cocktails aren't as handmade as my organic banner."


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## Rushy (Feb 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> TBH I think a robotic cocktail-maker would be awesome. Perfect cocktails every time.


The unions will be well chuffed with that attitude.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> The unions will be well chuffed with that attitude.


Unions? HAH!


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## Rushy (Feb 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Unions? HAH!


Sounds tasty. Like the name. What's in it?


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Sounds tasty. Like the name. What's in it?


1 part shame, 2 parts regret.


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## leanderman (Feb 3, 2014)

This just makes me thirst for a Mango Landin' mojito


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## Rushy (Feb 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> 1 part shame, 2 parts regret.


I have a handmade one of those every day. Sometimes two.


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## teuchter (Feb 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I can see the angry crowds already. "Your yuppie cocktails aren't as handmade as my organic banner."


I look forward to the unrest being documented from a birdseye view on this thread.


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## Gramsci (Feb 3, 2014)

souljacker said:


> Thats a very sneery article.



Read article and I do not see it as sneery.

Link is to Chris and Daves "Saltsearth" twitter. They put this online for all to see.


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Read article and I do not see it as sneery.
> 
> Link is to "Salt and Earth" twitter. They put this online for all to see.


The bit about "lucky enough to go skiing" is well, a bit sneery, no?


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## leanderman (Feb 3, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Read article and I do not see it as sneery.
> 
> Link is to Chris and Daves "Saltsearth" twitter. They put this online for all to see.



Really? 

Not this bit, just a little bit: _'Chris, who is lucky enough to be off skiing this week – commented'_

Mind you, I always sneer at skiers.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 3, 2014)

All Brixton needs now is a poodle parlour so the posh can get their Bichon Frise fluffed up.


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## editor (Feb 3, 2014)

Crispy said:


> There was a bar in one of the arches at London Bridge that had a robot arm that made cocktails.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodandd...-of-the-week-Cynthias-Bar-and-Restaurant.html


That was 12 years ago, I could be wrong, but I don't think the idea really took off in a big way.


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## editor (Feb 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> The bit about "lucky enough to go skiing" is well, a bit sneery, no?


I was just adding some detail that was posted on the public Twitter account for the new bar. I don't see it as sneery. In fact, I wish I was lucky enough to go skiiing.

Either way, he seemed to have no problems with the article at all - in fact, he described it as "amazing" and thanked me for posting it - so perhaps we could now move on from this exceedingly minor bit of nitpicking, no?


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## TruXta (Feb 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I was just adding some detail that was posted on the public Twitter account for the new bar. I don't see it as sneery. In fact, I wish I was lucky enough to go skiiing.
> 
> Either way, he seemed to have no problems with the article at all - in fact, he described it as "amazing" and thanked me for posting it - so perhaps we could now move on from this exceedingly minor bit of nitpicking, no?


Fair enough.


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 3, 2014)

"Handmade cocktails" or not, this is another symbol of the ongoing screwing of the area by moneyed incomers who see Brixton as their new playground, rather than somewhere that's been home to many communities for many years. People who now can't afford to live here any more. That's why people are angry. Anyone who doesn't understand that has more money than sense.


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## Smick (Feb 3, 2014)

editor said:


> That was 12 years ago, I could be wrong, but I don't think the idea really took off in a big way.


There is a chemist at Streatham Hill which does robotic prescriptions, and a helter shelter at the end.

I'm not sure but I think it is to slow everything down, frustrating robbers.


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## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> "Handmade cocktails" or not, this is another symbol of the ongoing screwing of the area by moneyed incomers who see Brixton as their new playground, rather than somewhere that's been home to many communities for many years. People who now can't afford to live here any more. That's why people are angry. Anyone who doesn't understand that has more money than sense.



I expect these incomers would much rather be in Chelsea or Clapham, but can't afford to live there any more.


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## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

I was talking to someone on my estate about what's going to happen to My Fathers Place. They'd been regulars there for years and commented that having it turn into a trendy cocktail bar would feel like 'having their faces rubbed in it'.


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## isvicthere? (Feb 4, 2014)

han said:


> Hand-made cocktails. It's a bit like saying 'oven-baked' or 'pan-fried', isn't it. Stating the bleedin obvious, and pretentious.



Surely they mean ARTISAN cocktails!

Also: will they be serving them in "edgy" jam jars?


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## isvicthere? (Feb 4, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> "Handmade cocktails" or not, this is another symbol of the ongoing screwing of the area by moneyed incomers who see Brixton as their new playground, rather than somewhere that's been home to many communities for many years. People who now can't afford to live here any more. That's why people are angry. Anyone who doesn't understand that has more money than sense.



^^^^this!


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## Winot (Feb 4, 2014)

isvicthere? said:


> Also: will they be serving them in "edgy" jam jars?



Like Kaff you mean ?


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## Brixton Hatter (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I expect these incomers would much rather be in Chelsea or Clapham, but can't afford to live there any more.


Poor them! At least they have a choice of where to live. 

Brixton is being specifically targeted. This guy thinks handmade cocktails are "just what Brixton's been missing."


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## Smick (Feb 4, 2014)

Maybe the existing regulars will continue to go there. That seems to have happened at the new and improved White Hart in Tulse Hill.


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## ska invita (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> This just makes me thirst for a Mango Landin' mojito


is it right that Mango has shut down? 
if so whats happened to the spot?
very sad news if so.


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## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Poor them! At least they have a choice of where to live.
> 
> Brixton is being specifically targeted. This guy thinks handmade cocktails are "just what Brixton's been missing."



If Brixton's being targeted, it is only because it is the last 'undeveloped' central area - after being shunned by these types for so long. 

And rent on this bar is no doubt a lot cheaper than Clapham High Street. 

I suspect these 'incomers' genuinely can't afford to live in Chelsea or Clapham. I know I can't.


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## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

ska invita said:


> is it right that Mango has shut down?
> if so whats happened to the spot?
> very sad news if so.



Tenant returned lease to freeholder, who will probably cash out with flats.


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## cuppa tee (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> And rent on this bar is no doubt a lot cheaper than Clapham High Street.


by strange coincidence I had a couple of minutes to spare and did a bit of research on the cats starting this bar
and it didnt take long to find out they are linked to a company that makes C+F look fairly modest in its scope and  another that runs two premises on Clapham High Street both these look well glossy, also one's  linked in says......


> myself and Dave have formed a new company called salts of the earth: cocktail counsellors.
> we write cocktail lists, train, innovate, counsel as well as many more.
> I will start a new position in march with the mint group on their new venture in Clapham.


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## Rushy (Feb 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> Like Kaff you mean ?


Have you seen Kaff has started the Rue Atlantic Supper Club? An "exclusive" monthly feast of Chef Myer's NOLA inspired cuisine with speciality cocktails created by Emanuel Ferris Hue. Their chef's food usual is seriously tasty so might be worth a go. I think Emanuel used to manage the bar and cocktails at Courtesan. They had a stunning whiskey cocktail called Courtesan with lapsansouchong tea which I presume was one of his creations. You need to book - no mention of prices on their site.


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## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> They had a stunning whiskey cocktail called Courtesan with lapsansouchong tea which I presume was one of his creations.



Nah, that's a well known cocktail.


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## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> Like Kaff you mean ?


I'm really not a fan of those jam jar cocktails, but at least the ones at Kaff are very affordable (some are just £3 on Fridays which is ridiculously cheap)  and some of the others they create are quite fun (if that's your thing). Emanual is the barman there. Nice bloke. 

Their chef is unbelievably enthusiastic about his food and it's not unusual for customers to be treated to a free dish. I like the way they run things at Kaff - they were the first to get right behind the Buzz Beer, and it's a real shame that Mango Landin' dicked the owners around.


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## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> by strange coincidence I had a couple of minutes to spare and did a bit of research on the cats starting this bar
> and it didnt take long to find out they are linked to a company that makes C+F look fairly modest in its scope and  another that runs two premises on Clapham High Street both these look well glossy, also one's  linked in says......


Ruddy hell. How are they linked to these two? 





> Since 2008, we have opened six contemporary and stylish bars and restaurants in London which have been turning heads with our customers and within the industry, proving that it’s the little touches that count. We pride ourselves on beautifully presented food using seasonal, locally sourced ingredients, over 50 wines available by the glass and a range of innovative cocktails, including a "skinny" list dedicated to low-calorie creations.
> 
> The Refinery on Bankside was our first bar and restaurant, followed by The Parlour in Canary Wharf, The Anthologist and The Folly, both in the City, and the The Drift. Our most recent opening has been the happenstance, which we launched in St Pauls this year.
> 
> ...





> Mint Group take a dynamic and forward-thinking approach to business. Adept at finding a gap in the market and servicing specific needs, the group has launched five successful venues - one of the UK's premier live music venues, KOKO in Camden; Infernos, a fun party disco in Clapham; the decadent party bar, Mary Janes, in the City; the Elk Bar in Fulham and Bison & Bird Bar in Clapham. Several exciting projects are also currently in the pipeline. These include the Mint Lodges, a luxury log cabin development, the acquisition of further bars and a series of outdoor music events.
> http://www.mintgroup.co.uk/


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## Rushy (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Nah, that's a well known cocktail.


Never heard of it before - but it is seriously good.


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## Chilavert (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I was talking to someone on my estate about what's going to happen to My Fathers Place. They'd been regulars there for years and commented that having it turn into a trendy cocktail bar would feel like 'having their faces rubbed in it'.


Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but do you know whether the owners of My Fathers Place have sold up/lease expired/rent increased prohibitively?


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## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Never heard of it before - but it is seriously good.


Tea and whiskey is old as the hills really. The lapsang's smokiness lends a nice savoury taste to it.


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## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm really not a fan of those jam jar cocktails, but at least the ones at Kaff are very affordable (some are just £3 on Fridays which is ridiculously cheap)  and some of the others they create are quite fun (if that's your thing). Emanual is the barman there. Nice bloke.
> 
> Their chef is unbelievably enthusiastic about his food and it's not unusual for customers to be treated to a free dish. I like the way they run things at Kaff - they were the first to get right behind the Buzz Beer, and it's a real shame that Mango Landin' dicked the owners around.



Cocktails are okay. And cheap. And they give a discount for paying B£ by text. 

Food's pretty decent, if a little hot for my pathetic palate.


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## Peanut Monkey (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> Ruddy hell. How are they linked to these two?


Bloody hell, what a load of wank. I thought that stretch of Coldharbour Lane would be immune from the rest of the changes happening to Brixton, that it'd get no further than Brixton Village. 
I honestly can't see this new place doing a decent trade.


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## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Bloody hell, what a load of wank. I thought that stretch of Coldharbour Lane would be immune from the rest of the changes happening to Brixton, that it'd get no further than Brixton Village.
> I honestly can't see this new place doing a decent trade.


Why not? Brixton Square is just around the corner and LBJ is going up and up.


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## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Cocktails are okay. And cheap. And they give a discount for paying B£ by text.
> 
> Food's pretty decent, if a little hot for my pathetic palate.


Their banana and chocolate waffle with syrup is a thing of such wonder that it stops all conversation dead in its tracks


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## Rushy (Feb 4, 2014)

Chilavert said:


> Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but do you know whether the owners of My Fathers Place have sold up/lease expired/rent increased prohibitively?


I think the venue had been struggling for a few years. I don't think there is any suggestion that these cocktail folk had anything to do with it. As people are pointing out, it is not an obvious location and I'd imagine they would have chosen something a little more central if available / affordable.


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## cuppa tee (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> Ruddy hell. How are they linked to these two?


It's all there in the guys Linkedin profile that I included in my last post.... the bit about starting work for the Mint Group in March
was what struck me, he must like a challenge cos that's around the same time the new bar we're talking about opens. Maybe they've had enough
of all all that glossy stuff and fancy doing something with a bit of edginess........


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## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 4, 2014)

Handmade cocktails, pretentious wank.


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## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Handmade cocktails, pretentious wank.



It is a bit ridiculous. And the 'counselling' stuff too.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It is a bit ridiculous. And the '*counselling*' stuff too.



The poor posh are traumatised when they first move to Brixton. They will need an outlet for their angst.


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## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I think the venue had been struggling for a few years. I don't think there is any suggestion that these cocktail folk had anything to do with it. As people are pointing out, it is not an obvious location and I'd imagine they would have chosen something a little more central if available / affordable.


I get  a strong impression that they don't really know much about this specific area at all, and just looked at the map, saw that it was down the road from the Village and their eyes lit up.


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## T & P (Feb 4, 2014)

How very dare they.


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## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

T & P said:


> How very dare they.


Well, it might come back and bite them on the arse.


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## snowy_again (Feb 4, 2014)

So one person's cocktail is good if you know them, but someone else's is bad if you don't know them?


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## el-ahrairah (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I was just adding some detail that was posted on the public Twitter account for the new bar. I don't see it as sneery. In fact, I wish I was lucky enough to go skiiing.?


 
cue mental image of you ski-ing, with your dreads flailing out behind you.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> So one person's cocktail is good if you know them, but someone else's is bad if you don't know them?


I don't really like cocktails, so I'm not sure what your point is.

That said, I imagine price relative to location and the targeted demographic may play a part in how well a new business is received in an area.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> cue mental image of you ski-ing, with your dreads flailing out behind you.


I've never skied in my life. Going down the the lower slopes of Pen Y Fan on a cheap wooden sledge was as good as it ever got for me.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> cue mental image of you ski-ing, with your dreads flailing out behind you.


He'd look right at home 15 years ago. Nowadays all the ski crowds are too clean cut.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I've never skied in my life. Going down the the lower slopes of Pen Y Fan on a cheap wooden sledge was as good as it ever got for me.


Alright Mr Flashy. When I was a kid we had to make do with sharing a bin bag.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Alright Mr Flashy. When I was a kid we had to make do with sharing a bin bag.


Bin bags? _Luxury!_


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> Bin bags? _Luxury!_


i suppose you had to scour the valleys for landfill to rest on.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> Bin bags? _Luxury!_


Errrr you had a wooden sledge, no? 

When I was a kid we had these, lethal but bloody great fun


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2014)

It's not an obviously promising location, but I'd be very surprised if they haven't done their homework and taken a calculated risk. It doesn't exactly seem like they are amateurs opening their first ever bar business.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Errrr you had a wooden sledge, no?


It wasn't mine - I had to borrow it!

Last time I went 'sledging' was on an urban walk when I found a bit of broken plastic and used that. It wasn't very successful. Other urbanites decided to not bother with anything at all. 











http://www.urban75.org/walks/kenley-common-walk-3.html

Anyway, back to drink counselling...


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

teuchter said:


> It's not an obviously promising location, but I'd be very surprised if they haven't done their homework and taken a calculated risk. It doesn't exactly seem like they are amateurs opening their first ever bar business.


That raises an interesting question - has the survival rate for new openings in the hospitality industry in Brixton changed over say the last 5 years? I don't know how you'd easily find out really.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> It wasn't mine - I had to borrow it!
> 
> Last time I went 'sledging' was on an urban walk when I found a bit of broken plastic and used that. It wasn't very successful. Other urbanites decided to not bother with anything at all.
> 
> ...



Synthethic fibre trousers are a well known and accepted substitute


----------



## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

Never really got skiing. 

Even if I had the cash I'm not sure I'd do it.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Errrr you had a wooden sledge, no?
> 
> When I was a kid we had these, lethal but bloody great fun



We have this, for the Brockwell Park slopes.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> That raises an interesting question - has the survival rate for new openings in the hospitality industry in Brixton changed over say the last 5 years? I don't know how you'd easily find out really.


We're certainly still losing pubs, but Kaff achieved the near-impossible and made a success of 66 Atlantic Road, and even Courtesan seems to be surviving in what can only be described as a cursed building.

That said, the Prince of Wales seems to feel the need to reinvent itself every five minutes to survive and the place in the old camping shop has had one failure after another.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> We have this, for the Brockwell Park slopes.


I preferred the more sledgey ones with front skis you could actually steer, but they're more expensive...


----------



## Winot (Feb 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Have you seen Kaff has started the Rue Atlantic Supper Club? An "exclusive" monthly feast of Chef Myer's NOLA inspired cuisine with speciality cocktails created by Emanuel Ferris Hue. Their chef's food usual is seriously tasty so might be worth a go. I think Emanuel used to manage the bar and cocktails at Courtesan. They had a stunning whiskey cocktail called Courtesan with lapsansouchong tea which I presume was one of his creations. You need to book - no mention of prices on their site.


 
Must give the food a go - ate there when it first opened but not since.  In fact, only went in the evening for the first time a week or so back and found the mojitos a bit lily-livered compared to Mango's (albeit cheaper).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> I tried making cocktails by hand once but it proved very difficult, I think it's generally better to use some sort of watertight container to mix the liquid ingredients....



I know what you mean!
And the crushed ice played merry hell with my Reynaud's Syndrome!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> Idiot. 'Handmade' means something that has broadly been made by human rather than machine labour, that's all. People these days are fucking stupid



It probably means, in this context, that the cocktail-mixer has a handjob into your Martini.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

han said:


> Hand-made cocktails. It's a bit like saying 'oven-baked' or 'pan-fried', isn't it. Stating the bleedin obvious, and pretentious.



Maybe they make their own spirits, mixers and syrups?

Nah, you're right! Pure pretension, innit?


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Maybe they make their own spirits, mixers and syrups?
> 
> Nah, you're right! Pure pretension, innit?


TBF a lot of syrups are indeed made in-house IME, at least for places a rung or two above the bottom of the barrel. It's hardly rocket science - sugar and water boiled up, mixed and cooled again.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

8115 said:


> There are some very nasty (tasting and looking) prepackaged cocktails around.  They are in foil packets, you twist the lid, I can't think what the brand is called.
> 
> But "handmade" for cocktails is a stupid word.



Could be worse, they could have said "artisan-made cocktails"!


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Could be worse, they could have said "artisan-made cocktails"!


isvicthere already did that one


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> TBF a lot of syrups are indeed made in-house IME, at least for places a rung or two above the bottom of the barrel. It's hardly rocket science - sugar and water boiled up, mixed and cooled again.



I meant stuff like grenadine syrup, which tbf is also easy to make, as are most cordials.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> isvicthere already did that one



Doh!


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

An in-house distillery is an intriguing idea though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Unless they actually make their own mixers and distil their own booze calling it "hand-made" is a brazen PR lie. It's on par with saying a pint is hand-made because it was poured into a glass.



Mind you, it's easier for a small biz to get a distilling licence nowadays than it was even 10 years ago.  I've often wondered whether Tulse Hill Gin ("Dry, yet red in tooth and claw") would be a seller. 

E2A.  About 4/5ths of the botanicals could be bought from Noor.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mind you, it's easier for a small biz to get a distilling licence nowadays than it was even 10 years ago.  I've often wondered whether Tulse Hill Gin ("Dry, yet red in tooth and claw") would be a seller.
> 
> E2A.  About 4/5ths of the botanicals could be bought from Noor.


And the water pumped up from the Effra.

On second thoughts maybe not.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> And the water pumped up from the Effra.
> 
> On second thoughts maybe not.



I was thinking more "Brockwell Spring" _a la_ Del Boy.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I was thinking more "Brockwell Spring" _a la_ Del Boy.


I have no idea what you're on about


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> I have no idea what you're on about



In "Only Fools and Horses" Del Boy was bottling his tapwater and selling it to incomers as "Peckham Spring Mineral Water". 

I keep forgetting that you're culturally-depraved.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> In "Only Fools and Horses" Del Boy was bottling his tapwater and selling it to incomers as "Peckham Spring Mineral Water".
> 
> I keep forgetting that you're culturally-depraved.


Aha.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Aha.



I thought they were Swedes?


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I thought they were Swedes?


Turnips.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 4, 2014)

Fat White Family and Champagne Holocaust getting mentions on Radio 6 today. This new bar could be a brilliant opportunity for another band to get some decent publicity. Anyone have a conveniently titled debut album -  Cocktail Catastrophe maybe?


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

Handmade Holocaust?


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

Poshastrophic Cockta-mayhem?


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

Artisan Apocalypse?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 4, 2014)

Koldharbour Kockakunt?


----------



## Chilavert (Feb 4, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Koldharbour Kockakunt?


Too far.


----------



## lefteri (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> You'd be disappointed if your cocktail was pre-mixed, can-style



which is the new trend in cocktails according to some alcohol trade rag article someone i know posted up on facebook recently


----------



## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

lefteri said:


> which is the new trend in cocktails according to some alcohol trade rag article someone i know posted up on facebook recently



I'm disappointed


----------



## lefteri (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I'm disappointed



i dunno, i think it's quite a good idea as i don't usually drink them and usually resent waiting for the whole ostentatious fandango to be over before i can get to the bar and order my beer


----------



## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

lefteri said:


> i dunno, i think it's quite a good idea as i don't usually drink them and usually resent waiting for the whole ostentatious fandango to be over before i can get to the bar and order my beer



This is true.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

ROBOTIC BARTENDER AT YOUR SERVICE.


----------



## Chilavert (Feb 4, 2014)

So pre-mixed is now cooler than made to order? Is this ironic, post-ironic or what? Either way it makes my head hurt...


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

Chilavert said:


> So pre-mixed is now cooler than made to order? Is this ironic, post-ironic or what? Either way it makes my head hurt...


It's ironic in the same way that Pabst Blue Ribbon became the beer du jour for hipsters.


----------



## isvicthere? (Feb 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> Like Kaff you mean ?



I read about "edgy" jam jars as being the last word in swanky "Shoreditch-ification". Thought it was a joke.


----------



## colacubes (Feb 4, 2014)

isvicthere? said:


> I read about "edgy" jam jars as being the last word in swanky "Shoreditch-ification". Thought it was a joke.



In fairness they were doing cocktails (really really shit ones  ) in paint tins during a smirnoff promotion in the Albert 18 months ago.  That sort of thing jumped the shark in terms of being swanky many moons ago!


----------



## isvicthere? (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> Poshastrophic Cockta-mayhem?



Rum'n'riot.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

colacubes said:


> In fairness they were doing cocktails (really really shit ones  ) in paint tins during a smirnoff promotion in the Albert 18 months ago.  That sort of thing jumped the shark in terms of being swanky many moons ago!


----------



## colacubes (Feb 4, 2014)

TruXta said:


>



Wetherspoons had them at the same time.  What trailblazers (lol etc) in Shoreditch do, soon becomes picked up by shitty pub chains at a later date 

It's also noticeable that they didn't last more than a few weeks


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

Those paint tins were really a failsome thing. Pointless and swiftly abandoned.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 4, 2014)

editor said:


> Those paint tins were really a failsome thing. Pointless and swiftly abandoned.


Please never use that word again, Crispy will have an aneurysm if he sees it.


----------



## ska invita (Feb 4, 2014)

Paint tins? paint tins? Old paint tins?


----------



## colacubes (Feb 4, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Paint tins? paint tins? Old paint tins?



Nah - shit fake ones.  These in fact:


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 4, 2014)

teuchter said:


> It's not an obviously promising location, but I'd be very surprised if they haven't done their homework and taken a calculated risk. It doesn't exactly seem like they are amateurs opening their first ever bar business.


I think you might be right. Having reflected on this, I reckon the hipsters would love nothing more than running the gauntlet of the CHL hustlers, with the promise of a handmade jizz 'n' gin cocktail served in a paint pot at the end. They could then instagram the results, whilst avoiding the grizzly old locals (Rushy and Leanderman) at the bar… 

Seriously though, look at Old Street/Shoreditch 15 years ago when people literally flocked to the scummiest bars down the dodgiest streets and loved it. Sure, a few people will be hassled and the more naive will be mugged for their ipads etc, but I imagine high pricing will be used to keep out perceived ne'er-do-wells and the moneyed punters will be happy once inside, rubbing shoulders with their vintage contemporaries.

I reckon smarmy skiing man might just be able to make it work if he's lucky. I hate what it represents though


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2014)

There's still regular street fights in that stretch though and bloke was nearly stabbed to death six months ago, so it might be a bit too edgy and over-vibrant for some.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 4, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> They could then instagram the results, whilst avoiding the grizzly old locals (Rushy and Leanderman) at the bar…


You and me, fella. Outside.


----------



## George & Bill (Feb 5, 2014)

Chilavert said:


> So pre-mixed is now cooler than made to order? Is this ironic, post-ironic or what? Either way it makes my head hurt...



Last summer at Caravan - next to the new St. Martins College in King's Cross - I ordered a 'draft' negroni. Yes I am a mug and they are clever charlatans. It was just like a normal negroni except it lacked the delicious intermingling/curdling together of the different ingredients (a proper one should not be stirred so much that they entirely blend together). The place does some good cooking but has tried so hard to be self-aware as to be totally unaware of the rather laboured quality of its own self-awareness.


----------



## George & Bill (Feb 5, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I think you might be right. Having reflected on this, I reckon the hipsters would love nothing more than running the gauntlet of the CHL hustlers, with the promise of a handmade jizz 'n' gin cocktail served in a paint pot at the end. They could then instagram the results, whilst avoiding the grizzly old locals (Rushy and Leanderman) at the bar…
> 
> Seriously though, look at Old Street/Shoreditch 15 years ago when people literally flocked to the scummiest bars down the dodgiest streets and loved it. Sure, a few people will be hassled and the more naive will be mugged for their ipads etc, but I imagine high pricing will be used to keep out perceived ne'er-do-wells and the moneyed punters will be happy once inside, rubbing shoulders with their vintage contemporaries.
> 
> I reckon smarmy skiing man might just be able to make it work if he's lucky. I hate what it represents though



They might be treated to a skirmish like this:


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> the hipsters would love nothing more than running the gauntlet of the CHL hustlers,



Basically, just like lots of now grumpy urban75 posters probably did ten or twenty years ago, when they first came to Brixton as twenty-somethings.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 5, 2014)

Don't be so hard on yourself!


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Basically, just like lots of now grumpy urban75 posters probably did ten or twenty years ago, when they first came to Brixton as twenty-somethings.


Did they really? How do you know?


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Did they really? How do you know?


See post above yours.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> See post above yours.


That doesn't answer my question. Who are these posters?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself!


 It's true; I'm one of them.


----------



## fractionMan (Feb 5, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Nah - shit fake ones.  These in fact:



Well mexico


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Did they really? How do you know?


All the people who liked the "edginess" and felt it made them more streetwise than mollycoddled folk in posher neighbourhoods.
Even my old mum would bang on with a sort of pride about running the gauntlet of dealers outside KFC and Woolies.


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> All the people who liked the "edginess" and felt it made them more streetwise than mollycoddled folk in posher neighbourhoods.
> Even my old mum would bang on with a sort of pride about running the gauntlet of dealers outside KFC and Woolies.



what a grotesque thing that is - to reveal in a neighborhoods roughness whilst never really suffering any consequences.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

BigMoaner said:


> what a grotesque thing that is - to reveal in a neighborhoods roughness whilst never really suffering any consequences.


That's no way to talk about Rushy's mum.


----------



## Dan U (Feb 5, 2014)

your mum


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

BigMoaner said:


> what a grotesque thing that is - to reveal in a neighborhoods roughness whilst never really suffering any consequences.


Depends on exactly what you mean by "roughness".


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> All the people who liked the "edginess" and felt it made them more streetwise than mollycoddled folk in posher neighbourhoods.
> Even my old mum would bang on with a sort of pride about running the gauntlet of dealers outside KFC and Woolies.


the only thing most newcomer people learn in brixton on a streetwise level is how to deal with the occasional dealer/begger in a way that's not going to escalate a situation. it's not as if these kids from the shires are going to have to learn suddenly how to deal with encroaching on the Peckham Boys "endz", or how to cook up crack, is it?


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> All the people who liked the "edginess" and felt it made them more streetwise than mollycoddled folk in posher neighbourhoods.


I moved here because:

(a) it was the only affordable place I could find where I knew someone and
(b) I was already involved in some of the grassroots political stuff going on in the area.

Pursuing 'edginess' was just about the last thing I was interested in, although we certainly had more than our fair share of that going in my neighbourhood.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> All the people who liked the "edginess" and felt it made them more streetwise than mollycoddled folk in posher neighbourhoods.
> Even my old mum would bang on with a sort of pride about running the gauntlet of dealers outside KFC and Woolies.


That's fascinating to hear about your Mum, but teuchter was specifically referring to "lots" of urban posters who apparently loved to "run the gauntlet of the CHL hustlers." 

So far he's only described himself as one of these people so I was wondering who else he meant. Any (non family) ideas?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

One of the things I've always enjoyed about Brixton is the potential for somewhat chaotic nights out. Not the only thing but it's a significant part of what attracted me initially. It's not so much the case now but that slightly anarchic atmosphere existed on the street and was something you felt when you came out of the tube and walked down Coldharbour Lane. I can't prove it scientifically but I'm pretty confident that it's something many so called "old-school" Brixton residents have been attracted to, sought out and enjoyed.

What made Brixton like that? The answer's complicated and it's not just down to wealth disparities. It's easy to dismiss relishing it as a kind of poverty tourism, but it's not as simple as that.

I'll accept that what drew certain people to Brixton, say, 15 years ago is not entirely the same thing that is drawing people here now, but there are some common factors and the night-time unruliness is one of them.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> That's fascinating to hear about your Mum, but teuchter was specifically referring to "lots" of urban posters who apparently loved to "run the gauntlet of the CHL hustlers."





editor said:


> I moved here because:
> 
> (a) it was the only affordable place I could find where I knew someone and
> (b) I was already involved in some of the grassroots political stuff going on in the area.
> ...



Likewise, it is fascinating to hear about your reasons for moving here and useful to hear you clarify that you neighbourhood was so much edgier than others.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> One of the things I've always enjoyed about Brixton is the potential for somewhat chaotic nights out. Not the only thing but it's a significant part of what attracted me initially. It's not so much the case now but that slightly anarchic atmosphere existed on the street and was something you felt when you came out of the tube and walked down Coldharbour Lane. I can't prove it scientifically but I'm pretty confident that it's something many "old-school" Brixton residents have been attracted to it and enjoyed it.
> 
> What made Brixton like that? The answer's complicated and it's not just down to wealth disparities. It's easy to dismiss relishing it as a kind of poverty tourism, but it's not as simple as that.
> 
> I'll accept that what drew certain people to Brixton, say, 15 years ago is not entirely the same thing that is drawing people here now, but there are some common factors and the night-time unruliness is one of them.


In my experience the unruliness is still there, but what's going is the diversity that IMO drove some of that pleasurable/frightening chaos. Nowadays it's more and more young(ish) m/c white people, whilst back then the mix of class and ethnicity seemed bigger. I'm only going back as far as when I moved to Brixton -6, 7 years ago.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Likewise, it is fascinating to hear about your reasons for moving here and useful to hear you clarify that you neighbourhood was so much edgier than others.


I was answering specific points raised about urban posters. I don't think anyone asked about your Mum, did they?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> what's going is the diversity that IMO drove some of that pleasurable/frightening chaos. Nowadays it's more and more young(ish) m/c white people, whilst back then the mix of class and ethnicity seemed bigger.



I agree with you completely.

Nevertheless the hustle of CHL is something that attracts certain people now, just like it did 10 years ago.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I agree with you completely.
> 
> Nevertheless the hustle of CHL is something that attracts certain people now, just like it did 10 years ago.


People are suckers for flashing lights and loud noises. Witness Leicester Square of a weekend.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> In my experience the unruliness is still there, but what's going is the diversity that IMO drove some of that pleasurable/frightening chaos. Nowadays it's more and more young(ish) m/c white people, whilst back then the mix of class and ethnicity seemed bigger. I'm only going back as far as when I moved to Brixton -6, 7 years ago.


I think Jack summed it up really well in his excellent piece about the recent changes in Brixton and what shaped the Brixton of the past: 



> So many people all arriving at once, and all bringing with them the kind of culture that has deliberately and strongly stayed away from Brixton in the past, derided Brixton, dismissed and shunned Brixton as a place of danger and poverty and strangeness.
> 
> For many of us, one of the reasons we ended up in Brixton was exactly because we found ourselves as individuals, as the people that we are, shunned and ignored by those people who derided Brixton.
> 
> ...


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> People are suckers for flashing lights and loud noises.



Not editor though. He came to Brixton to pursue earnest grassroots politics. Edginess, chaos and unruly youthful behaviour had nothing to do with it.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Not editor though. He came to Brixton to pursue earnest grassroots politics. Edginess, chaos and unruly youthful behaviour had nothing to do with it.


Although apparently his neighbourhood was edgier than most, someone reminded me.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Not editor though. He came to Brixton to pursue earnest grassroots politics. Edginess, chaos and unruly youthful behaviour had nothing to do with it.


And now you're back to what you're best at: pointless, snide, disruptive personal attacks.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Although apparently his neighbourhood was edgier than most, someone reminded me.


I didn't actually say that, but central Coldharbour Lane was indeed rougher than some parts of Brixton. The ever- accurate, never sensationalist Evening Standard even went as fas as describing it as "the most dangerous street in Britain."


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

BigMoaner said:


> what a grotesque thing that is - to reveal in a neighborhoods roughness whilst never really suffering any consequences.


I don't think that a septuagenarian finding it a bit exciting and unusual to have been repeatedly offered skunk in the street is grotesque. No.
I much prefer that she felt a bit excited by the experience than threatened. That's not the same as revelling (I think that's the word you meant) and not everyone should be expected to scratch much below the surface of somewhere they only pass through.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> It's true; I'm one of them.



Yes, but you don't really constitute "lots", do you?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Even my old mum would bang on....



You're not the first Urbanite to mention that.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Not editor though. He came to Brixton to pursue earnest grassroots politics. Edginess, chaos and unruly youthful behaviour had nothing to do with it.



Christ, but you're an arsehole.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> And now you're back to what you're best at: pointless, snide, disruptive personal attacks.


Well, you seem better at typing versions of the above ten times a day, than actually responding in a non-evasive way to points being made.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 5, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yes, but you don't really constitute "lots", do you?


You don't say.


----------



## Mr Retro (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> The ever- accurate, never sensationalist Evening Standard even went as fas as describing it as "the most dangerous street in Britain."



That wasn't even that long ago was it? 5 or 6 years? I remember reading the article when I was living in Brixton, silly fucking arseholes

We moved to Brixton because it was cheap and central. I admit we stayed because it was vibrant/dynamic/hip/edgy whatever the fuck words you want to use to describe the atmosphere in Brixton. And we were part of the initial gentrification for certain. 

However we didn't bargain in the surprising sense of community there. I did feel I was intruding into this a bit so we were tried to contribute to this in our small ways and try to fit in and be part if it. 

What I think the difference now with this new flood is people don't give a fuck about Brixton per se, they stomp into the community and take much more (or at least appear to) than they give and long term residents resent this. Fair enough isn't it?


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> What I think the difference now with this new flood is people don't give a fuck about Brixton per se, they stomp into the community and take much more (or at least appear to) than they give and long term residents resent this. Fair enough isn't it?


I think the eviction of all the long term squatters has seriously knocked things out of kilter in central Brixton too.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I don't think that a septuagenarian finding it a bit exciting and unusual to have been repeatedly offered skunk in the street is grotesque. No.
> I much prefer that she felt a bit excited by the experience than threatened. That's not the same as revelling (I think that's the word you meant) and not everyone should be expected to scratch much below the surface of somewhere they only pass through.


Fair play to your mum for knowing what it was. When my mum was offered "skunk, weed, charlie", she didn't have a bloody clue! Whilst generally reminiscing several years afterwards I filled her in, and she was quite shocked and glad she had remained naive at the time, given she had only just got used to her daughter living there!

Despite this, I would like to point out that I also didn't move to Brixton because it was "edgy" or would upset my mum!


----------



## story (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> There's still regular street fights in that stretch though and bloke was nearly stabbed to death six months ago, so it might be a bit too edgy and over-vibrant for some.



Serious question though editor : I assume you don't want this kind of violence as a normal part of the local scene to continue. And if the influx of new bars and their clientele is one of the things that causes this to end, isn't it a good thing to have the changes? Nothing that has been done in the past in an effort to end this kind of violence has made much difference. If gentrification and an influx of a different demographic makes a difference, it's not all bad, right?


----------



## Mr Retro (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I think the eviction of all the long term squatters has seriously knocked things out of kilter in central Brixton too.


That's since we left. I never considered it actually, good point


----------



## Winot (Feb 5, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> We moved to Brixton because it was cheap and central. I admit we stayed because it was vibrant/dynamic/hip/edgy whatever the fuck words you want to use to describe the atmosphere in Brixton. And we were part of the initial gentrification for certain.


 
Hey - I was gentrifying it long before you arrived matey 



Mr Retro said:


> What I think the difference now with this new flood is people don't give a fuck about Brixton per se, they stomp into the community and take much more (or at least appear to) than they give and long term residents resent this. Fair enough isn't it?


 
Certainly it's fair enough if true, but (a) proof is hard to come by; (b) it's difficult to tell just by looking at a 'newcomer' if they are contributing or not; (c) it's pretty unfriendly to tar all newcomers with the same brush.

Anyway, this all been done to death many times.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Nowadays it's more and more young(ish) m/c white people, whilst back then the mix of class and ethnicity seemed bigger.



The photo-sets occasionally posted here, and on Brixton Buzz, seem to me not to be that diverse.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> Certainly it's fair enough if true, but (a) proof is hard to come by; (b) it's difficult to tell just by looking at a 'newcomer' if they are contributing or not; (c) it's pretty unfriendly to tar all newcomers with the same brush.
> 
> Anyway, this all been done to death many times.


Perhaps it's because since the arrival of the nu-Village and all the various restaurants/pop ups/pricier bars etc, newcomers these days can pick and choose what bits of Brixton they want to socialise in, whereas before people tended to be thrown together a bit more?


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

Agent Sparrow said:


> Fair play to your mum for knowing what it was. When my mum was offered "skunk, weed, charlie", she didn't have a bloody clue! Whilst generally reminiscing several years afterwards I filled her in, and she was quite shocked and glad she had remained naive at the time, given she had only just got used to her daughter living there!


To be fair, mine has a bit of an unfair advantage over yours in that she still works with mental illness predominantly connected to drug use (mostly weed) - so really ought to know what skunk is!


----------



## T & P (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I didn't actually say that, but central Coldharbour Lane was indeed rougher than some parts of Brixton. The ever- accurate, never sensationalist Evening Standard even went as fas as describing it as "the most dangerous street in Britain."


I remember my very first visit to Brixton, almost 20 years to the day now. I'd been living in Britain for just a few months and my English was still extremely limited. A friend was going to the 414 and asked if I wanted to join them. Let's just say that the 90-second walk from Brixton tube to the 414 felt _a lot_ longer than that


----------



## Mr Retro (Feb 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> Certainly it's fair enough if true, but (a) proof is hard to come by; (b) it's difficult to tell just by looking at a 'newcomer' if they are contributing or not; (c) it's pretty unfriendly to tar all newcomers with the same brush.
> 
> Anyway, this all been done to death many times.



I mean it's fair enough if long term residents are unhappy that new comers are taking more from the community than they put in. Or are perceived to be taking more, it's almost impossible to tell as you say. 

As story says above it's not all bad, of course it's not, but the net effect seems to be negative and newcomers as a whole will get the blame.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 5, 2014)

Clearly we need to vet incomers.


----------



## Winot (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Perhaps it's because since the arrival of the nu-Village and all the various restaurants/pop ups/pricier bars etc, newcomers these days can pick and choose what bits of Brixton they want to socialise in, whereas before people tended to be thrown together a bit more?


 
Possibly - it's probably true that some places have become more homogeneous.  How that ties into to the broader point about stomping into Brixton and not giving a fuck about the community is debateable.  Young people (who may not even live here) have always come to Brixton to party.


----------



## CH1 (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy could you do us all a favour and find out who OWNS My Fathers Place. Has it changed hands? Are we in fo a deluge of hippsters, slappers or what down at the respectable end of CHL?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 5, 2014)

teuchter said:


> You don't say.



I do, but fortunately for you, not every time you act like an arsehole.

Doing that would be too much like a full-time job.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 5, 2014)

story said:


> Serious question though editor : I assume you don't want this kind of violence as a normal part of the local scene to continue. And if the influx of new bars and their clientele is one of the things that causes this to end, isn't it a good thing to have the changes? Nothing that has been done in the past in an effort to end this kind of violence has made much difference. If gentrification and an influx of a different demographic makes a difference, it's not all bad, right?



Mind you, "new bars and clientele" doesn't necessarily mean an end to fighting in CHL, just that it'll be a different set of drunks having fisticuffs.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Clearly we need to vet incomers.



As in "positively vet", or as in "neuter"?


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> Young people (who may not even live here) have always come to Brixton to party.


Not in such vast numbers, though.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Rushy could you do us all a favour and find out who OWNS My Fathers Place. Has it changed hands? Are we in fo a deluge of hippsters, slappers or what down at the respectable end of CHL?


Have PMd you.


----------



## story (Feb 5, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mind you, "new bars and clientele" doesn't necessarily mean an end to fighting in CHL, just that it'll be a different set of drunks having fisticuffs.




That's no doubt true, but the fighting conducted by middle class white hipsters tends to be more of the "Are you looking at my bird? You spilled my pint! I'm too drunk to know what I'm doing..." variety rather than the stuff that spills over from estate wars and gang retaliations and drug wars, which is more of the CHL/local stuff. I suspect that there will be less gun & knife crime and fewer retaliatory-rape stuff amongst the white hipster crowd.

I am NOT - Urban, please note - I AM NOT saying that one is better than the other, nor that the violence as a symptom of local social malaise will be addressed or solved by gentrification.

Does anyone know what the mugging and street-theft crime numbers are and how those compare with pre-incomer rates of street crime? Are the hipsters getting mugged in greater numbers?


----------



## Winot (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Not in such vast numbers, though.



I'm sure you're right, but I thought Mr Retro was talking about people moving here to live rather than visitors.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Coldharbour Lane late at night has depressingly become more or less the same as any other town centre now - loads of drunk lads shouting, girls on the floor crying about something or another, lager-addled numbskulls squaring up to each other, people too drunk to stand, and vast pools of puke splattering the pavement at regular intervals. 

Oh and more blokes pissing against walls, door, trees, bins than _ever_ before.


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## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Coldharbour Lane late at night has depressingly become more or less the same as any other town centre now - loads of drunk lads shouting, girls on the floor crying about something or another, lager-addled numbskulls squaring up to each other, people too drunk to stand, and vast pools of puke splattering the pavement at regular intervals.
> 
> Oh and more blokes pissing against walls, door, trees, bins than _ever_ before.



This reminds me of complaints at the Brixton Area Forum (or whatever it was called at the time) meetings in the late 90s! And the finger wagging cries of "...and it's getting worse!"


----------



## Dan U (Feb 5, 2014)

Do hipsters fight? Surely they would snap as they are all so skinny and fray their cardigans.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> This reminds me of complaints at the Brixton Area Forum (or whatever it was called at the time) meetings in the late 90s! And the finger wagging cries of "...and it's getting worse!"



It was ever thus: classical literature abounds with stern Romans lamenting the ways of the young.


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## Manter (Feb 5, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Rushy could you do us all a favour and find out who OWNS My Fathers Place. Has it changed hands? Are we in fo a deluge of hippsters, slappers or what down at the respectable end of CHL?


Every time I read the thread title I think it's editor's father's place and get slightly confused


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## cuppa tee (Feb 5, 2014)

Hero of Switzerland.......


Dan U said:


> Do hipsters fight? Surely they would snap as they are all so skinny and fray their cardigans.


rumour has it that duels are becoming more common on hackney marshes in the early hours.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> This reminds me of complaints at the Brixton Area Forum (or whatever it was called at the time) meetings in the late 90s! And the finger wagging cries of "...and it's getting worse!"


I've no idea about any of that but if you ask anyone who's lived in the area for any length of time, they'll tell you the same story: things have changed considerably in the last couple of years. 

I imagine the pissing problem has been seriously exasperated by the profusion of all those trendy, toilet-free venues in the Village and thereabouts.


----------



## cuppa tee (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I imagine the pissing problem has been seriously exasperated by the profusion of all those trendy, toilet-free venues in the Village and thereabouts.


and also increased bladder pressure from wearing skinny jeans,


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I've no idea about any of that but if you ask anyone who's lived in the area for any length of time, they'll tell you the same story: things have changed considerably in the last couple of years.
> 
> I imagine the pissing problem has been seriously exasperated by the profusion of all those trendy, toilet-free venues in the Village and thereabouts.



Like I said - people have been complaining about if for ever. We used to have to get the council to jet wash Tunstall Road on weekends. They installed the pop up pissor to try to alleviate the pissing in Electric Avenue. McDonalds was convinced to join a scheme providing  public toilets. All of this was to deal with the huge waves of piss flooding through Brixton at night on weekends. Busy night-life has its consequences - noise, litter, pissing blah blah blah. Maybe you used to be closeted from it down CHL. 

Welcome to the centre of Brixton - where young folk come to party.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Busy night-life has its consequences - noise, litter, pissing blah blah blah. Maybe you used to be closeted from it down CHL.


I'm talking about the changes in the past ten years in Coldharbour Lane. I haven't been "closeted" from anything. The street has had all sorts of problems over the years - some of them have been far worse than pissing - and there is no question that it has changed substantially late at night. It's far, far busier for starters.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm talking about the changes in the past ten years in Coldharbour Lane. I haven't been "closeted" from anything. The street has had all sorts of problems over the years - some of them have been far worse than pissing - and there is no question that it has changed substantially late at night. It's far, far busier for starters.


Busier would be better in many people's books, especially women having to walk down there at night I reckon.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Busier would be better in many people's books, especially women having to walk down there at night I reckon.


Not so great for women when it's full of drunk men pissing against walls, throwing bottles and starting fights, I fancy. I've seen more than a few being leered at by drunken laaaads along Coldharbour Lane late at night.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Not so great for women when it's full of drunk men pissing against walls, throwing bottles and starting fights, I fancy. I've seen more than a few being leered at by drunken laaaads along Coldharbour Lane late at night.


Whatever.


----------



## colacubes (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Whatever.



He's right in fairness.  I've always felt very safe on the streets in Brixton, but in the last year I've been hassled more than even when there was a posse of crack dealers regularly by my flat.  Same goes for quite a few female friends I've spoken to about it.  Only on Fridays and Saturdays though.  It's usually fine the rest of the week.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

colacubes said:


> He's right in fairness.  I've always felt very safe on the streets in Brixton, but in the last year I've been hassled more than even when there was a posse of crack dealers regularly by my flat.  Same goes for quite a few female friends I've spoken to about it.  Only on Fridays and Saturdays though.  It's usually fine the rest of the week.


Well, I've heard the opposite, that some people, not just women, prefer a busier street to a quiet street. When we lived on Sudbourne Rd my OH would rather go up Acre Lane in the evening/night than SBR because she felt safer there due to more people being around. TBH I'd feel the same.


----------



## colacubes (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Well, I've heard the opposite, that some people, not just women, prefer a busier street to a quiet street. When we lived on Sudbourne Rd my OH would rather go up Acre Lane in the evening/night than SBR because she felt safer there due to more people being around. TBH I'd feel the same.



It's not the number of people that's a problem.  I like her prefer it busy safety wise.  It's the attitude and the hassle of the people.


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## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

colacubes said:


> It's not the number of people that's a problem.  I like her prefer it busy safety wise.  It's the attitude and the hassle of the people.


Fair enough.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

colacubes said:


> He's right in fairness.  I've always felt very safe on the streets in Brixton, but in the last year I've been hassled more than even when there was a posse of crack dealers regularly by my flat.  Same goes for quite a few female friends I've spoken to about it.  Only on Fridays and Saturdays though.  It's usually fine the rest of the week.


Yep. Weekends are awful and far worse than they've ever been. 4am on Coldharbour Lane is a horrendous vision to behold.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Yep. Weekends are awful and far worse than they've ever been. 4am on Coldharbour Lane is a horrendous vision to behold.



We could just be getting older.


----------



## happyshopper (Feb 5, 2014)

story said:


> T... the fighting conducted by middle class white hipsters tends to be more of the "Are you looking at my bird? You spilled my pint! I'm too drunk to know what I'm doing..." variety rather than the stuff that spills over from estate wars and gang retaliations and drug wars



I think you are getting your demographic categories/stereotypes mixed up. Where I come from the the middle class would would give a slight cough, make an excuse and leave.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

You don't have to take my word for any of this, but if you talk to bar staff who have been working in central Brixton for over five years, I imagine most will tell you of a real shift in attitude from their customers.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 5, 2014)

TruXta said:


> See post above yours.


er, how's that then


----------



## Rushy (Feb 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Yep. Weekends are awful and far worse than they've ever been. 4am on Coldharbour Lane is a horrendous vision to behold.


Well that's certainly not the Village crowd.

I have to say I'm kind of relieved that the focus appears to have shifted down your way - but sorry you have to put up with it. It has quietened down loads in my street since Mass and Babalou faltered and closed. Fridge Bar hardly ever seems to be open any more and even Mango has gone now - though that caused little more than a few late night shrieks (at least I guess that is where people were coming form around 3am). The crowd going to and from Hoot can be a bit noisy but the venue is far enough a way that it doesn't bother me.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Well that's certainly not the Village crowd.


No, some most certainly are. I often see some coming out of the Village and heading to the Dogstar queue or into the Market House etc etc.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> We could just be getting older.


That's certainly one way to dismiss the points out of hand.


----------



## Ms T (Feb 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> We could just be getting older.


I'm far too old to be even awake at 4 am voluntarily....


----------



## TruXta (Feb 5, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> er, how's that then


 @ self, it was meant to refer to teuchter's post but you got there first.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 5, 2014)

oh ok!


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

editor said:


> That's certainly one way to dismiss the points out of hand.



It's not impossible that as we get older we become less tolerant of antisocial behaviour, less tolerant of young people, more fearful that others are pushing in etc, etc

It's human nature innit.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It's not impossible that as we get older we become less tolerant of antisocial behaviour, less tolerant of young people, more fearful that others are pushing in etc, etc
> 
> It's human nature innit.


Might be a common enough occurrence through history, but to dismiss it as "human nature" is to sweep under the carpet the immediate history and politics of what is happening.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Well that's certainly not the Village crowd.
> 
> I have to say I'm kind of relieved that the focus appears to have shifted down your way - but sorry you have to put up with it. It has quietened down loads in my street since Mass and Babalou faltered and closed. Fridge Bar hardly ever seems to be open any more and even Mango has gone now - though that caused little more than a few late night shrieks (at least I guess that is where people were coming form around 3am). The crowd going to and from Hoot can be a bit noisy but the venue is far enough a way that it doesn't bother me.



I quite like the crowds heading up to the Hoot and Effra Social.

More people makes me feel safer.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Might be a common enough occurrence through history, but to dismiss it as "human nature" is to sweep under the carpet the immediate history and politics of what is happening.



Or economics: these undesirables have been priced out of the areas they desire to live in


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Or economics: these undesirables have been priced out of the areas they desire to live in


Which undesirables?


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Which undesirables?



The laads, shireites apparently ruining CHL.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Feb 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Or economics: these undesirables have been priced out of the areas they desire to live in


I think most of the newbies in Brixton are not there by choice, they couldn't afford clapham just like the people in clapham cant afford chelsea and notting hill.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 6, 2014)

editor said:


> No, some most certainly are. I often see some coming out of the Village and heading to the Dogstar queue or into the Market House etc etc.



The problem seems to be punters leaving the Dogstar and Market House 5 hrs after the Village closed, no? I imagine there are a lot more 20 somethings heading past yours to get back to newly trendy LJ which was considered a bit too off the beaten track even just a couple of years ago, until they were priced out of Brixton.

I really hope it is not as bad as the frequency of your complaints implies because I'm afraid that getting anything done about night-life related shenanigans is a fuck of a lot of hard work. Takes years. And you'll be criticised for being a NIMBY no matter how much you protest that the offenders are all gentrifying yupsters - or out of towners - and that you were here first. And be told that you probably should not have moved to Brixton if you could not hack the pace. Or that you should have moved out once it got too much for you. 

Anyway. Although it may take a few years, I can happily testify that with a bit of united effort it can eventually start getting back to normal.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 6, 2014)

Shush!


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2014)

There's fuck all happening in Loughborough Junction at night so I've no idea why they'd head back there when there's a ton of nightlife just across from the Village.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I quite like the crowds heading up to the Hoot and Effra Social.
> 
> More people makes me feel safer.



I don't mind them either but have never felt unsafe on that stretch. Except perhaps on one night when it was particularly busy:


----------



## Rushy (Feb 6, 2014)

editor said:


> There's fuck all happening in Loughborough Junction at night so I've no idea why they'd head back there when there's a ton of nightlife just across from the Village.


... get back [home] to..


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## teuchter (Feb 6, 2014)

Actually, regarding LJ there are now quite often late night shenanigans going on in the Whirled Cinema on Saturdays (mostly private parties I think), which bring a moderate amount of rowdiness, particularly at closing time in the small hours.


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> ... get back [home] to..


Most people I see walking from the Village tend to head into Brixton rather than to LJ and there is no question that the Village has generated traffic for the Dogstar and other local venues. 

Just for the record, I've met loads of really lovely young/old/whatever people who have moved into Brixton recently and can happily say there still seems to be quite a few folks who have moved here to be part of 'Brixton,' if you get my drift.


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I quite like the crowds heading up to the Hoot and Effra Social.
> 
> More people makes me feel safer.


I actually feel there's more danger of being drawn into a random fight on Coldharbour Lane late at night now than than 15 years ago - and that's not because I'm looking!


----------



## aussw9 (Feb 6, 2014)

story said:


> That's no doubt true, but the fighting conducted by middle class white hipsters tends to be more of the "Are you looking at my bird? You spilled my pint! I'm too drunk to know what I'm doing..." variety rather than the stuff that spills over from estate wars and gang retaliations and drug wars, which is more of the CHL/local stuff. I suspect that there will be less gun & knife crime and fewer retaliatory-rape stuff amongst the white hipster crowd.
> 
> I am NOT - Urban, please note - I AM NOT saying that one is better than the other, nor that the violence as a symptom of local social malaise will be addressed or solved by gentrification.
> 
> Does anyone know what the mugging and street-theft crime numbers are and how those compare with pre-incomer rates of street crime? Are the hipsters getting mugged in greater numbers?



You're getting your social sub groups, stereotyping/generalizations totally out of whack here.

Never seen a fight in a 'hipster' style bar or venue, hate to generalise here but hipsters tend to be quite chilled and not the type looking to fight.

Its the dregs that follow once an area is seen as to be cool that will cause the riff-raff and ruin it for everyone.


----------



## Vibrant-Hubb (Feb 6, 2014)

These people sound like pricks. Brixton shops seems to be zooming from working class black to public schoolboy white with nothing in between these days. Are these berks the only people who can afford the rent in 2014 London? (Yes, and that is this goverment's plan). Sad for London and the history of places like Brixton. Living on the frontline indeed.

(PS I realise that this is not a nuanced analysis, but look at that plum's Twitter "humour". Ahem).


----------



## lefteri (Feb 6, 2014)

Vibrant-Hubb said:


> These people sound like pricks. Brixton shops seems to be zooming from working class black to public schoolboy white with nothing in between these days.



what about middle class black and middle class mixed heritage?  the way people talk about black people in this area as some homogenised working class or poor mass is both patronising and woefully incorrect - there's plenty of middle class people of caribbean and now african origin in brixton and there have been for some time and yes they go shopping - ever been in morleys?


----------



## Rushy (Feb 6, 2014)

lefteri said:


> what about middle class black and middle class mixed heritage?  the way people talk about black people in this area as some homogenised working class or poor mass is both patronising and woefully incorrect - there's plenty of middle class people of caribbean and now african origin in brixton and there have been for some time and yes they go shopping - ever been in morleys?


And white working / middle class, asian, Portuguese, blah blah blah.
Brixton should not be curated like some sort of afro-Caribbean museum. It's another phase in its evolution to which plenty of afro Caribbean business people (not just business) have been and still are contributing.


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> And white working / middle class, asian, Portuguese, blah blah blah.
> Brixton should not be curated like some sort of afro-Caribbean museum. It's another phase in its evolution to which plenty of afro Caribbean business people (not just business) have been and still are contributing.


This 'particular phase in its evolution' is actively being shaped by council policy at the expense of those at the poorer end of the spectrum though.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

editor said:


> This 'particular phase in its evolution' is actively being shaped by council policy at the expense of those at the poorer end of the spectrum though.



True but many are, at least, protected by council or housing association rents that are well below the ridiculous levels in the private rented sector. 

For example, L&Q charges its social housing tenants around £800 a month for a four-bedroom home on this street.

That's barely a third of the 'market' rate.

£2,500 a month I guess. 

And I hope this situation continues.


----------



## lefteri (Feb 6, 2014)

editor said:


> This 'particular phase in its evolution' is actively being shaped by council policy at the expense of those at the poorer end of the spectrum though.



certainly looks that way, but the complexities of the demographics and their change are not helped by the kind of lazy stereotyping about brixton that seems to be common here even amongst people who have lived here a long time (not aimed at you btw ed, but there do seem to be a lot of those kind of assertions on these boards)


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

lefteri said:


> certainly looks that way, but the complexities of the demographics and their change are not helped by the kind of lazy stereotyping about brixton that seems to be common here even amongst people who have lived here a long time (not aimed at you btw ed, but there do seem to be a lot of those kind of assertions on these boards)



The 2011 census is a good place to start. Astonishing levels of detail.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> The 2011 census is a good place to start. Astonishing levels of detail.



I refused to complete that census and the one before that, so did many people i know. We don't figure in their statistics.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I refused to complete that census and the one before that, so did many people i know. We don't figure in their statistics.



The Tube usage stats - and, more importantly the housing and school places crisis - suggest population estimates for London may be too low.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 6, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I refused to complete that census and the one before that, so did many people i know. We don't figure in their statistics.


Why?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Why?



Last time was partly Lockheed Martin and their involvement in the data processing but generally as a protest.
Moreover, as much as i can, i try to control my personal data, who i consent to give it to, the nature of the information given to organisations and how they use it.
I could not give consent with the census as i was compelled under threat of legal action to complete it. That's called duress and no one can consent to anything under duress.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 6, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Last time was partly Lockheed Martin and their involvement in the data processing but generally as a protest.
> Moreover, as much as i can, i try to control my personal data, who i consent to give it to, the nature of the information given to organisations and how they use it.
> I could not give consent with the census as i was compelled under threat of legal action to complete it. That's called duress and no one can consent to anything under duress.



I probably should care about my personal data - but don't. 

Are we not compelled to do lots of other things? Not just the census. 

Can we just pick and choose?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 7, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I probably should care about my personal data - but don't.
> 
> Are we not compelled to do lots of other things? Not just the census.
> 
> Can we just pick and choose?



I keep being told this is a free country but i don't see much evidence of freedom. If you are lucky you become a slave to the free market, if you are less fortunate you are punished. This is not a democracy, it's an open prison, our chains cut according to our coin.
The more coin you have the more likely you are to obey even doing the masters dirty work by chastising those with little to lose who threaten the penitentiary peace just by saying no.

We are compelled to be complicit in a system that is criminal, that is how the system maintains itself, but if as individuals we abdicate our responsibility to "pick and choose" then there is no hope of breaking the chains and we should accept the sear of the overseer without screaming.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 7, 2014)

Fair enough


----------



## ringo (Feb 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I think the venue had been struggling for a few years.



My Fathers Place was, for many years, run by Larry Lawrence, a Jamaican reggae producer of some renown who owned the Ethnic Fight label. I used to drop by now and then and have a chat with him and occasionally have a dig through the boxes of old vinyl stock he still had out the back. Lovely chap, he was always very friendly and helpful. Sadly he passed away in 2008 and the shop was never really the same, or even open that much, after that time.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 7, 2014)

ringo said:


> My Fathers Place was, for many years, run by Larry Lawrence, a Jamaican reggae producer of some renown who owned the Ethnic Fight label. I used to drop by now and then and have a chat with him and occasionally have a dig through the boxes of old vinyl stock he still had out the back. Lovely chap, he was always very friendly and helpful. Sadly he passed away in 2008 and the shop was never really the same, or even open that much, after that time.



Do you happen to know whether his real first name was Rudolph?


----------



## ringo (Feb 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Do you happen to know whether his real first name was Rudolph?



His real first name was Clifton. Larry was a nickname, as you might have guessed.


----------



## BigMoaner (Feb 7, 2014)

ringo said:


> My Fathers Place was, for many years, run by Larry Lawrence, a Jamaican reggae producer of some renown who owned the Ethnic Fight label. I used to drop by now and then and have a chat with him and occasionally have a dig through the boxes of old vinyl stock he still had out the back. Lovely chap, he was always very friendly and helpful. Sadly he passed away in 2008 and the shop was never really the same, or even open that much, after that time.


 like, whatever! we can now have an awesome cocktail there and take pics of it on our ipads! and it'll be soooooo random, cos we're like in realllllly rough part of brixton?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It's not impossible that as we get older we become less tolerant of antisocial behaviour, less tolerant of young people, more fearful that others are pushing in etc, etc
> 
> It's human nature innit.



Except that "human nature" isn't actually innate human behaviour where you progress from one POV to another as you age/go up in the world, it's entirely dependent on cultural exposure.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Might be a common enough occurrence through history, but to dismiss it as "human nature" is to sweep under the carpet the immediate history and politics of what is happening.



TBF, "human nature" is a veritable dustbinful of vague excuses dressed up to look like serious comment. As you say, the history and politics (as well as the social setting) need to be borne in mind.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2014)

leanderman said:


> The laads, shireites apparently ruining CHL.



Aren't they a sect of Muslims?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> You're getting your social sub groups, stereotyping/generalizations totally out of whack here.
> 
> Never seen a fight in a 'hipster' style bar or venue, hate to generalise here but hipsters tend to be quite chilled and not the type looking to fight.
> 
> Its the dregs that follow once an area is seen as to be cool that will cause the riff-raff and ruin it for everyone.



"Dregs"?
What, you mean like descendents of convicts and such?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> And white working / middle class, asian, Portuguese, blah blah blah.
> Brixton should not be curated like some sort of afro-Caribbean museum. It's another phase in its evolution to which plenty of afro Caribbean business people (not just business) have been and still are contributing.



"Evolution" implies a natural process of development/re-development/social change.  I'd say that over the last 10 years (arguably 15) "forced mutation" is a better description, and that given the plans of this local authority and its neighbours, the mutation will only speed up.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I refused to complete that census and the one before that, so did many people i know. We don't figure in their statistics.



The reason I never succumbed to that temptation is that central govt based (not sure it still does since the coalition) their funding formulas for certain local authority services on census returns.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2014)

leanderman said:


> The Tube usage stats - and, more importantly the housing and school places crisis - suggest population estimates for London may be too low.



Wouldn't surprise me in the least.  For example, anyone attempting to avoid a debt will minimise their exposure to debt collectors by not getting on the electoral register (another source for crude numbers of adults per borough).  Arguably, since the Poll Tax, there's been a consistent underestimate of around half a million for London alone (I don't have a source, this was an "educated guess" by a demographer working on a TfL job to model potential passenger numbers a couple of years ago).


----------



## leanderman (Feb 7, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Wouldn't surprise me in the least.  For example, anyone attempting to avoid a debt will minimise their exposure to debt collectors by not getting on the electoral register (another source for crude numbers of adults per borough).  Arguably, since the Poll Tax, there's been a consistent underestimate of around half a million for London alone (I don't have a source, this was an "educated guess" by a demographer working on a TfL job to model potential passenger numbers a couple of years ago).



Also, it's possible that recent migrants do not fill out the forms in great numbers.


----------



## Ol Nick (Feb 7, 2014)

Armies of statisticians interpret the census and lots more besides before publishing any figures. Over 65 million people you can make a lots of statistical inference.


----------



## CH1 (Feb 8, 2014)

ringo said:


> My Fathers Place was, for many years, run by Larry Lawrence, a Jamaican reggae producer of some renown who owned the Ethnic Fight label. I used to drop by now and then and have a chat with him and occasionally have a dig through the boxes of old vinyl stock he still had out the back. Lovely chap, he was always very friendly and helpful. Sadly he passed away in 2008 and the shop was never really the same, or even open that much, after that time.


Here is part of a photo of the terrace taken in 1986 (apologies for quality).
As you can see it was a record shop called Round 2 Records then.


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Here is part of a photo of the terrace taken in 1986 (apologies for quality).
> As you can see it was a record shop called Round 2 Records then.


That pic is ace. Is it yours? I'd love to do a 'then and now' feature.
Have you any more?!


----------



## CH1 (Feb 8, 2014)

editor said:


> That pic is ace. Is it yours? I'd love to do a 'then and now' feature.
> Have you any more?!


A friend did some black and white photos of the shops/Barrier Block/houses in my part of Coldharbour Lane. I have A4-ish prints of some, these "contacts" and the negatives.


----------



## isvicthere? (Feb 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I keep being told this is a free country but i don't see much evidence of freedom. If you are lucky you become a slave to the free market, if you are less fortunate you are punished. This is not a democracy, it's an open prison, our chains cut according to our coin.
> The more coin you have the more likely you are to obey even doing the masters dirty work by chastising those with little to lose who threaten the penitentiary peace just by saying no.
> 
> We are compelled to be complicit in a system that is criminal, that is how the system maintains itself, but if as individuals we abdicate our responsibility to "pick and choose" then there is no hope of breaking the chains and we should accept the sear of the overseer without screaming.



Still, mustn't grumble.....

(Only joking. Actually, you make a very good point).


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 9, 2014)

isvicthere? said:


> Still, mustn't grumble.....
> 
> (Only joking. Actually, you make a very good point).



Lol, i woke up in a bad mood that morning.


----------



## Nedrop (Feb 10, 2014)

Great photos, looks a lot neat and tidier than it currently is in those photos

Bit suspicious about a couple of those convenience stores on that strip, one has barely any stock


----------



## gabi (Feb 10, 2014)

ringo said:


> My Fathers Place was, for many years, run by Larry Lawrence, a Jamaican reggae producer of some renown who owned the Ethnic Fight label. I used to drop by now and then and have a chat with him and occasionally have a dig through the boxes of old vinyl stock he still had out the back. Lovely chap, he was always very friendly and helpful. Sadly he passed away in 2008 and the shop was never really the same, or even open that much, after that time.



He was a tough old bastard. I lived next to my fathers place for a couple of years and me and my flatmate got to know him. That backroom of his was fucking incredible, he wasn't immune to a bit of name-dropping either, worked with some of the greats. He helped my flatmate get his first record pressed too i seem to remember. He was the don of that little block of shops/flats.


----------



## ringo (Feb 10, 2014)

gabi said:


> He was a tough old bastard. I lived next to my fathers place for a couple of years and me and my flatmate got to know him. That backroom of his was fucking incredible, he wasn't immune to a bit of name-dropping either, worked with some of the greats. He helped my flatmate get his first record pressed too i seem to remember. He was the don of that little block of shops/flats.



Yep, often the way with the old reggae legends, it's to their great credit that so many can bely their tough Kingston upbringing with a kind and generous nature.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 10, 2014)

gabi said:


> That backroom of his was fucking incredible,



How so?


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Feb 10, 2014)

CH1 said:


> A friend did some black and white photos of the shops/Barrier Block/houses in my part of Coldharbour Lane. I have A4-ish prints of some, these "contacts" and the negatives.
> View attachment 48141
> View attachment 48142
> View attachment 48143


Do you have full size prints of the photos on the contact sheet? One of those is of my house and it'd great to have a copy.


----------



## Smick (Feb 10, 2014)

CH1 said:


> A friend did some black and white photos of the shops/Barrier Block/houses in my part of Coldharbour Lane. I have A4-ish prints of some, these "contacts" and the negatives.
> View attachment 48141
> View attachment 48142
> View attachment 48143


 
Not specific to Brixton, but I'm loving some of the cars in those photos. The first one has a Mk2 Granada and a Citroën DS.


----------



## gabi (Feb 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> How so?



Huge vinyl collection including some pretty rare stuff and original plates of trojan records stuff on the walls.

he also claimed that bob marley, lee perry etc etc used to bed down in there when in town.


----------



## CH1 (Feb 11, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Do you have full size prints of the photos on the contact sheet? One of those is of my house and it'd great to have a copy.


Looking at the contacts the ones I do NOT have prints for are Nos 3,4,13,15,16,18,19,20,21,22,23,25,26,28,29,36
I have scanned all the prints I have and will be sending them to Editor.
If you want to reply or PM me I can send the relevant one(s) to you.
If it is one of the unprinted shots you could also borrow the negative if you want.
Maybe we should start a Coldharbour Lane thread for CHL cognescenti?


----------



## leanderman (Feb 18, 2014)

Going to have Swiss beer, Twitter suggests: 

@saltsearth: John from @John1936biere a reet nice bloke! 1936 coming to 336 #coldharbourlane soon http://t.co/FVlEIOa9Lm


----------



## CH1 (Feb 18, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Going to have Swiss beer, Twitter suggests:
> 
> @saltsearth: John from @John1936biere a reet nice bloke! 1936 coming to 336 #coldharbourlane soon http://t.co/FVlEIOa9Lm


All I could find out about the premises is that locals think it is owned by Larry's daughter who had been talking of renting it out, but currently on holiday.
Obituary of Larry here
Tracks on Gabi's featured album sound like this:

Not many have large enough bass units to get the effect - though my 30 year old Wharfedale Delta 70s do alright!


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2014)

I've been in touch with the guys and have an update about the bar to post up shortly.


----------



## Rushy (Feb 18, 2014)

CH1 said:


> All I could find out about the premises is that locals think it is owned by Larry's daughter


Is _she _called Rudolph?


----------



## T & P (Feb 18, 2014)

editor said:


> I've been in touch with the guys and have an update about the bar to post up shortly.


Back from skiing, are they?


----------



## CH1 (Feb 18, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Is _she _called Rudolph?


No she just hasn't bothered to register a change of ownership by the look of it. Why should she, unless she is/has sold the property?


----------



## Dan U (Feb 18, 2014)

T & P said:


> Back from skiing, are they?



Skype chat from the top of Mont Blanc


----------



## Rushy (Feb 18, 2014)

CH1 said:


> No she just hasn't bothered to register a change of ownership by the look of it. Why should she, unless she is/has sold the property?


But Larry was Clifton, so was he also Rudolph?


----------



## CH1 (Feb 18, 2014)

Rushy said:


> But Larry was Clifton, so was he also Rudolph?


You've raised an issue now Rushy. I don't have access to the Jamaican registry of births marriages and deaths - and if it's anything like the Ghanaian one you might be able to chose your preferred name and date of birth.
Can't we settle for that quaint old-English term "it's family property"?


----------



## Manter (Feb 18, 2014)

CH1 said:


> You've raised an issue now Rushy. I don't have access to the Jamaican registry of births marriages and deaths - and if it's anything like the Ghanaian one you might be able to chose your preferred name and date of birth.
> Can't we settle for that quaint old-English term "it's family property"?


Its similar…. and they don't always register deaths if they take place in Jamaica.  Which means that it can be difficult to track and prove ownership, as a friend found to her cost- she had a flat in Ealing, she went to sell and discovered the freeholder was dead, but wasn't recorded as dead and they couldn't trace him ever having been alive to the satisfaction of the british courts, either.  And because only the freeholder can sort out some of the insurances, that lapsed too… they are three years into a court case at the moment


----------



## CH1 (Feb 18, 2014)

Manter said:


> Its similar…. and they don't always register deaths if they take place in Jamaica.  Which means that it can be difficult to track and prove ownership, as a friend found to her cost- she had a flat in Ealing, she went to sell and discovered the freeholder was dead, but wasn't recorded as dead and they couldn't trace him ever having been alive to the satisfaction of the british courts, either.  And because only the freeholder can sort out some of the insurances, that lapsed too… they are three years into a court case at the moment


Wow. I must get round to making that will...........


----------



## Manter (Feb 18, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Wow. I must get round to making that will...........


You must. <<stern face>>


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2014)

I posted up an updated article with menu selection. It's opening around Easter. 







http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/02/...name-announces-menu-details-and-opening-date/


----------



## TruXta (Feb 20, 2014)

editor said:


> I posted up an updated article with menu selection. It's opening around Easter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why, you're being positively... positive there, ed.


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Why, you're being positively... positive there, ed.


I like the fact that they've kept in touch with me and made an effort. I respect that.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 20, 2014)

editor said:


> I like the fact that they've kept in touch with me and made an effort. I respect that.


Yeah, fair fucks. Gotta say I was surprised they are aiming for prices that "low".


----------



## Dan U (Feb 20, 2014)

Did they get much powder in the alps?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 20, 2014)

I thought market house was the local "speakeasy"? 

9 quid cocktails?! Definitely should be illegal!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 20, 2014)

Dan U said:


> Did they get much powder in the alps?


----------



## leanderman (Feb 20, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I thought market house was the local "speakeasy"?
> 
> 9 quid cocktails?! Definitely should be illegal!



Birthday treat in town revealed that, in places like Browns Hotel, cocktails cost £15 to £20. Terrifying.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 20, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Birthday treat in town revealed that, in places like Browns Hotel, cocktails cost £15 to £20. Terrifying.


bloody hell 

i've got some cider and some breastmilk here, might mix 'em up and make my very own modern cocktail. I'll have to give myself an £15 IOU for the pleasure though...


----------



## cuppa tee (Feb 21, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> bloody hell
> 
> i've got some cider and some breastmilk here, might mix 'em up and make my very own modern cocktail. I'll have to give myself an £15 IOU for the pleasure though...


that posh eatery called the Dairy in Clapham was doing something with breast milk IIRC, or they may have just been indulging in social media irony


----------



## Manter (Feb 21, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> that posh eatery called the Dairy in Clapham was doing something with breast milk IIRC, or they may have just been indulging in social media irony


You aren't allowed to sell it in this country due to food safety laws and the impossibility of following the tracing etc laws. 

Don't ask me why I know that


----------



## cuppa tee (Feb 21, 2014)

Manter said:


> You aren't allowed to sell it in this country due to food safety laws and the impossibility of following the tracing etc laws.
> 
> Don't ask me why I know that


how do you know that ?
( not wishing to derail the thread but when my daughter was a baby I was pushing her down by the oval when a woman stepped in front of us and snatched the milk bottle from my daughters hands, she demanded. a five pound ransom and when it was not forthcoming she drank the lot in one and then asked for a pound for the empty)


----------



## TruXta (Feb 21, 2014)




----------



## tbtommyb (Feb 23, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> "Evolution" implies a natural process of development/re-development/social change.  I'd say that over the last 10 years (arguably 15) "forced mutation" is a better description, and that given the plans of this local authority and its neighbours, the mutation will only speed up.


But can't natural processes jump? Wasn't the temporary settlement of people from the Windrush in south London a 'forced' change?


----------



## Manter (Feb 23, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> how do you know that ?
> ( not wishing to derail the thread but when my daughter was a baby I was pushing her down by the oval when a woman stepped in front of us and snatched the milk bottle from my daughters hands, she demanded. a five pound ransom and when it was not forthcoming she drank the lot in one and then asked for a pound for the empty)


That's very weird!

One of the partners at work (who is a very strange woman) gave birth to twins and couldn't breastfeed. She didn't want to use formula so investigated alternatives.  She ended up using a wet nurse, bizarrely.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 23, 2014)

tbtommyb said:


> But can't natural processes jump? Wasn't the temporary settlement of people from the Windrush in south London a 'forced' change?



Not so much forced as inevitable - South London had more empty housing and cheap rental housing. What we saw from '48-onward was much the same impulse as what made Whitechapel a nexus for immigrants for a hundred years.  People first gravitated there for the cheap accommodation, and then gravitated there because it was a nexus for their own immigrant community.  It all took about 25 years for Brixton to become (at least in the mind of the media) the bastion of "West Indian"-ness they believed it to be.


----------



## tbtommyb (Feb 23, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Not so much forced as inevitable - South London had more empty housing and cheap rental housing. What we saw from '48-onward was much the same impulse as what made Whitechapel a nexus for immigrants for a hundred years.  People first gravitated there for the cheap accommodation, and then gravitated there because it was a nexus for their own immigrant community.  It all took about 25 years for Brixton to become (at least in the mind of the media) the bastion of "West Indian"-ness they believed it to be.



Yes, but successive governments specifically encouraged West Indians to come over to Britain, and it was a deliberate decision to place the first arrivals there. I see your point about it taking about 25 years, but weren't those people just acting in response to the same drivers (affordable accommodation, people like them) that focus the hipster hive on various places in London?


----------



## gabi (Feb 24, 2014)

editor said:


> I like the fact that they've kept in touch with me and made an effort. I respect that.



Is this the reason you seem to support this new operation, while joining a protest against another very similar venture just up the street?

What's the difference?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2014)

gabi said:


> What's the difference?



These ones are better at PR.


----------



## gabi (Feb 24, 2014)

Yeh, i guess so.

It's doomed to fail anyway. I lived there for years. It's kind of a little bubble. There is no way a cocktail bar will succeed. They should have done more market research. The only reason Larry stayed in business for so long wasn't his patties. There simply isnt enough passing trade for a cocktail place there. I give it 3 months.


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2014)

gabi said:


> Is this the reason you seem to support this new operation, while joining a protest against another very similar venture just up the street?


I don't "support" this venture. I would have preferred it if the bar had remained as My Father's Place.


teuchter said:


> These ones are better at PR.


They at least made an effort to engage and hopefully won't keep their windows boarded up and hold semi secret events like that lot at the Angel.


----------



## CH1 (Feb 24, 2014)

editor said:


> I don't "support" this venture. I would have preferred it if the bar had remained as My Father's Place.
> They at least made an effort to engage and hopefully won't keep their windows boarded up and hold semi secret events like that lot at the Angel.


I agree. To my mind this is an innocuous proposal.
It won't harm any of the other businesses in the shopping parade - and bringing the shop back into use for a purpose it already has planning permission for is much better than having it stand empty.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 24, 2014)

tbtommyb said:


> Yes, but successive governments specifically encouraged West Indians to come over to Britain, and it was a deliberate decision to place the first arrivals there.



Inaccurate. With regard to southwest London, where "West Indian" immigrants were "placed" was the bomb shelters on Clapham Common.  Brixton became the assembly point (if you will) because it was nearby and cheap, not because there was a "deliberate action" on anyone's part.  Look at the evolution of black communities elsewhere in Britain - they mostly follow the same path that previous immigrant communities took - a route to the cheapest accommodation.



> I see your point about it taking about 25 years, but weren't those people just acting in response to the same drivers (affordable accommodation, people like them) that focus the hipster hive on various places in London?



Except that affordability doesn't appear to be a central foundation of hipsterdom, "authenticity", on the other hand...

I suppose I should make it clear at this point that I see the various waves of settlement in Brixton and its environs as distinctly different, and that even during these waves, there have been other settlers who weren't motivated by anything other than a desire for a cheap family home, but the "hipster" influx...well, that's somewhat different, in that it's people riding a wave that started back in the '70s and '80s with the influx of squatters into empty properties left to rot after the plan to level central Brixton was abandoned.  These are people, many of whom believe that you can purchase authenticity like I'd buy a tin of peas - consumption capitalists to a man and woman.  They're not here because of low prices.  Many are here because here is where they deem themselves as currently needing to be, to be "authentic" - to be real.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2014)

To be authentic what?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 24, 2014)

teuchter said:


> To be authentic what?



Well, there's the rub - the quest for authenticity doesn't specify *an* authenticity, the questers merely assume that they can buy a sense of belonging through residence in a "happening" area, just as they assume they can purchase a sense of belonging through buying into other "communities" such as the community of Android users, or iPad bores.  Consumption capitalism impels its followers to believe that all things, including social identity, are ultimately purchaseable.


----------



## tbtommyb (Feb 24, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Inaccurate. With regard to southwest London, where "West Indian" immigrants were "placed" was the bomb shelters on Clapham Common.  Brixton became the assembly point (if you will) because it was nearby and cheap, not because there was a "deliberate action" on anyone's part.  Look at the evolution of black communities elsewhere in Britain - they mostly follow the same path that previous immigrant communities took - a route to the cheapest accommodation.



I'm aware of that, thanks, which is why I said 'south London', not Brixton. But I meant that they were deliberately placed in south London, as opposed to say Bristol or Leeds or Manchester, all of which probably had cheaper accommodation. I think the state encouraging people to travel across the Atlantic in fairly large cohesive groups, at a time when Britain had barely any racial diversity, is forced and a culturally jarring change. However, I accept your point that the number of them meant that it probably took a long time for it to mean anything to locals beyond there now being black people.

I think perhaps where we're differing is on cultural/economic change, leading nicely into...



> Except that affordability doesn't appear to be a central foundation of hipsterdom, "authenticity", on the other hand...
> 
> I suppose I should make it clear at this point that I see the various waves of settlement in Brixton and its environs as distinctly different, and that even during these waves, there have been other settlers who weren't motivated by anything other than a desire for a cheap family home, but the "hipster" influx...well, that's somewhat different, in that it's people riding a wave that started back in the '70s and '80s with the influx of squatters into empty properties left to rot after the plan to level central Brixton was abandoned.  These are people, many of whom believe that you can purchase authenticity like I'd buy a tin of peas - consumption capitalists to a man and woman.  They're not here because of low prices.  Many are here because here is where they deem themselves as currently needing to be, to be "authentic" - to be real.



Well yeah I agree that it's another example of the usual gentrification process, attempting to purchase authenticity or whatever. But perhaps this wave of change has had such a big economic impact because of policy in the intervening time i.e. a lack of council/co-op/HA housing has exposed local people much more than they would have been? So their economic impact has been much greater than their cultural impact. And then it is the economic impact that drives change through rising house prices etc driving people out.

Because I think a lot of the people that laid the ground for this hipster influx did move to Brixton looking for a cheap family home, even 10-15 years ago when Brixton was relatively more affordable. It's only this very recent group that haven't behaved like that, and maybe that's because London property has got so fucked up in the meantime?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 25, 2014)

tbtommyb said:


> I'm aware of that, thanks, which is why I said 'south London', not Brixton. But I meant that they were deliberately placed in south London, as opposed to say Bristol or Leeds or Manchester, all of which probably had cheaper accommodation. I think the state encouraging people to travel across the Atlantic in fairly large cohesive groups, at a time when Britain had barely any racial diversity, is forced and a culturally jarring change. However, I accept your point that the number of them meant that it probably took a long time for it to mean anything to locals beyond there now being black people.
> 
> I think perhaps where we're differing is on cultural/economic change...



I think you're right. 



> leading nicely into...
> 
> 
> 
> Well yeah I agree that it's another example of the usual gentrification process, attempting to purchase authenticity or whatever. But perhaps this wave of change has had such a big economic impact because of policy in the intervening time i.e. a lack of council/co-op/HA housing has exposed local people much more than they would have been? So their economic impact has been much greater than their cultural impact. And then it is the economic impact that drives change through rising house prices etc driving people out.



IIRC there was a convo on here last year where some of the longer-term residents compared their memories of the last 20+ years, and there was an agreement of sorts that the nature of settlement had changed drastically over the last 5-7 years.  That isn't to say that the economic and social impact of prior "settlement" hadn't altered the dynamic of the area (it of course had), but the volume and rate of settlement increased noticably, and more settlers appeared to be motivated by "local culture", than by merely seeking a cheaper alternative to Crapham.



> Because I think a lot of the people that laid the ground for this hipster influx did move to Brixton looking for a cheap family home, even 10-15 years ago when Brixton was relatively more affordable. It's only this very recent group that haven't behaved like that, and maybe that's because London property has got so fucked up in the meantime?



Hmmm, I'm not so sure.  I'd say the primary factor in laying the ground was Brixton's adoption by art students, Bohos and the other usual suspects bringing about much the same demise/"gentrification" that Shoreditch suffered, or even that Battersea suffered 40-odd years ago.  This wasn't a deliberate effect, just the unfortunate concomitant to a need for cheap or free accommodation and/or studio space.
This eventually rendered Brixton "more suitable" for settlement by middle class young families who were prepared to buy a "doer-upper", and from there everything else sprang, including an acceleration of change that can be incredibly jarring to Brixton "natives" and old-timers.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 3, 2014)

clariascott If you're real, read and get a feel for the place.  

May all the gods have mercy on you if you're a spambot, because this place certainly won't.  Your strange English is a dead giveaway.


----------



## CH1 (Mar 14, 2014)

I notice that 334 Coldharbour - right next to My Fathers Place seems to be in an advanced state of renovation.
Not only that, there is a planning application underway: http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=N0DE5UBO67000

The plans include adding a mansard roof extension - and they cite Jerry Knight's Lexadon Angel pub building as a precedent - though they say THEIR mansard roof extendion will be more tastefully done. 

Walking past this evening there looked to be a group of enterprising white young(ish) people tasking tea in the shop unit, which had a poster on the wall suggesting an impending bar use (cocktails that knock you out sort of thing).

Anyone know what is going on?

Ed - has your dynamic duo's autopilot gone awry, or are we in for TWO cocktail bars to entertain the William Hill punters?


----------



## cuppa tee (Mar 14, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Ed - has your dynamic duo's autopilot gone awry, or are we in for TWO cocktail bars to entertain the William Hill punters?



this has the hallmarks of some asymmetrical marketing angle ...... tell everyone your new bar is at 336 when it's really at 334 so when they turn up they have to work out where its real location is thus maxing the "hard to find" cachet whilst at the same time giving adventurous urban experientialists a brief but unforgettable  taste of edgy CHL after they have alighted from their taxi cab.....
e2a weren't they contemplating calling it 336 as well, the devious b'stards


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2014)

The people behind this venture have created a website for their 'cocktail counselling and menu creation' service.
http://saltsoftheearth.co.uk/


----------



## Corax (Mar 17, 2014)

Which way round do they put their lens hoods on?


----------



## Corax (Mar 17, 2014)

editor said:


> The people behind this venture have created a website for their 'cocktail counselling and menu creation' service.
> http://saltsoftheearth.co.uk/


Ooh, fuck me that's painful...


----------



## shakespearegirl (Mar 17, 2014)

That website is fucking horrendous.


----------



## gabi (Mar 18, 2014)

Jesus Christ. That has to be a pisstake.


----------



## gabi (Mar 18, 2014)

'After fingering his way' ... Fucking hell, someone has to preserve this site. I just vomited a little in my mouth imagining that fuckwit fingering anything


----------



## gabi (Mar 18, 2014)

Hang on. Chris Morris drinks locally, ive seen him about with Brooker. Surely this is one of his efforts.


----------



## T & P (Mar 18, 2014)

gabi said:


> 'After fingering his way' ... Fucking hell, someone has to preserve this site. I just vomited a little in my mouth imagining that fuckwit fingering anything


The full paragraph is worth quoting for posterity



> Ever the experimentalist, Mr Edwards traversed the many roads necessary before calling himself a man. After fingering his way from the fretless neck of a double bass to the Fin de siècle institutions of fine art and design, Chris found work in the cavernous vaults of a subterranean private-members club beneath the Strand, and was submerged forever in the sea of hospitality.


----------



## buscador (Mar 18, 2014)

Oh, I don't know, the (hideous) site seems to be promising a darkroom which allied to "fingering" rather suggests the sort of clubs I used to enjoy in my younger and more energetic days and which were often housed in similarly unlikely places. Maybe I'll give it a go...


----------



## Rushy (Mar 18, 2014)

buscador said:


> Oh, I don't know, the (hideous) site seems to be promising a darkroom which allied to "fingering" rather suggests the sort of clubs I used to enjoy in my younger and more energetic days and which were often housed in similarly unlikely places. Maybe I'll give it a go...


Energetic fingering 
I might seek clarification before deciding whether to visit.


----------



## colacubes (Mar 18, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Energetic fingering
> I might seek clarification before deciding whether to visit.



Innit.  Not what I'm after when I go out for a drink tbh


----------



## Rushy (Mar 18, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Innit.  Not what I'm after when I go out for a drink tbh


Not anymore, anyway.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 18, 2014)

buscador said:


> Oh, I don't know, the (hideous) site seems to be promising a darkroom which allied to "fingering" rather suggests the sort of clubs I used to enjoy in my younger and more energetic days and which were often housed in similarly unlikely places. Maybe I'll give it a go...



oooh! Substation, Clit Club, Fuck me Barbie - happy memories! - makes me feel all nostalgic. 

This lot's site is a bit vague about the darkroom though. With a site like that not sure if they are offering drinks or comedy?


----------



## colacubes (Mar 18, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Not anymore, anyway.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 18, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Not anymore, anyway.



Sadly true for me. Only bitter and home before midnight now.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 19, 2014)

So the "darkroom" on their website is a link to digital pictures of their cocktails.

Nothing quite like a contradiction in terms is there?


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2014)

They offering cocktail training too:


> Only those who have come from the very bottom can understand the importance of quality training when it comes to reaching the top. For charismatic and engaging sessions on everything from classic cocktails to your own existing lists, read: Salts of the Earth.


----------



## Rushy (Mar 29, 2014)

A few doors away from MFP there is a drab looking solicitors. As I wandered past this morning there was a guy and a woman sat outside on the pavement on little chairs, which I thought was unusual for a solicitor's office. But inside, it looked like there were several tables covered in red and white checked tablecloths and a bar at the end. Couldn't see much as I was over the other side of the road. Anyone?


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> A few doors away from MFP there is a drab looking solicitors. As I wandered past this morning there was a guy and a woman sat outside on the pavement on little chairs, which I thought was unusual for a solicitor's office. But inside, it looked like there were several tables covered in red and white checked tablecloths and a bar at the end. Couldn't see much as I was over the other side of the road. Anyone?


That's the jolly pop-up restaurant selling 'Barrier Block Buffalo Wings.' It hasn't been advertised to locals, well, certainly not to the people they've named one of their dishes after, so I'm not surprised you didn't know what it was.


----------



## Rushy (Mar 29, 2014)

Oh, that'd be it. 

Does advertising work like that anymore? Everything seems to be advertised by non geo specific social networking like Twitter / Facebook / blogs etc.. All I get "local" advertising for these days is Pizza delivery, cleaning service, floorsanding and the occasional mystic healer. Maybe what is needed is a local information campaign to show people how to keep in touch with what is happening locally by Twitter etc.. Fucked if I can work it (or be bothered to ever look though all the crap which seems to come my way on Twitter, for that matter).


----------



## Peanut Monkey (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> So it's goodbye to this long serving Caribbean restaurant and hello to the world of 'cocktail therapy' and 'modern speakeasy's.
> 
> It's set to open in Easter - the name is yet to be decided, but these are the people behind it: Chris & Dave of @saltsearth.
> 
> More here: http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/02/...my-fathers-place-on-coldharbour-lane-brixton/



Any news on whether this is happening? Nothing seems to have done to it at all and Easter has long gone.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 8, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Any news on whether this is happening? Nothing seems to have done to it at all and Easter has long gone.


I checked their twitter and it looks like they have been busy in the Cotswolds


----------



## Yelkcub (May 8, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Any news on whether this is happening? Nothing seems to have done to it at all and Easter has long gone.


 
Maybe they are waiting for a delivery of banter? Or hats?


----------



## trabuquera (May 8, 2014)

Too busy doing great things for the community. perhaps.


----------



## leanderman (May 19, 2014)

Yelkcub said:


> Maybe they are waiting for a delivery of banter? Or hats?



They now suggest they might be taking over the Montego Inn on Brixton Water Lane instead.


----------



## editor (May 19, 2014)

They seem awfully vague.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 21, 2014)

I hope they have the courage of their original convictions and open on Coldharbour Lane.


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I hope they have the courage of their original convictions and open on Coldharbour Lane.


Montego Inn is a cool little venue though. Over the years it has hardly ever seemed to be open.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I hope they have the courage of their original convictions and open on Coldharbour Lane.


I reckon it would certainly prove an interesting addition to that very lively stretch


----------



## leanderman (May 21, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Montego Inn is a cool little venue though. Over the years it has hardly ever seemed to be open.



Looks a better bet for these guys - and me


----------



## gabi (May 21, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Montego Inn is a cool little venue though. Over the years it has hardly ever seemed to be open.



The owner goes home to Jamaica every summer for a few months. Weird but cool little spot to stop. He's always got a story or two.


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Looks a better bet for these guys - and me


It'll be rammed with people waiting for the Hoot queue to go down!


----------



## leanderman (May 21, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It'll be rammed with people waiting for the Hoot queue to go down!



They could profit from the new-found 'vibrancy' of Lower Tulse Hill: Effra Social, Sainsbury and er, that's it.


----------



## Badgers (May 21, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Montego Inn is a cool little venue though. Over the years it has hardly ever seemed to be open.



I suspect business was taking place


----------



## Ms T (May 21, 2014)

Badgers said:


> I suspect business was taking place


.


----------



## CH1 (May 21, 2014)

gabi said:


> The owner goes home to Jamaica every summer for a few months. Weird but cool little spot to stop. He's always got a story or two.





Badgers said:


> I suspect business was taking place





Ms T said:


> I know it. A work colleague used to go there.


Is it still owned by a guy called Bruce Stennett? Can't say I recall him, but I do remember he had a bash at getting into the shebeen type market in the early 1980s. He would open up on Sunday afternoons when the pubs turned out at 2 pm (yes - PM). He was really running a bar using his restaurant licence I suppose - but it never quite took off.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2014)

Here's the lads at work.






Looks like they've given up on _vibrant_ Coldharbour Lane now.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 21, 2014)

They bottled it


----------



## trabuquera (May 21, 2014)

<feels warm glow of malicious schadenfreude - especially after seeing the pic in post#377>


----------



## shakespearegirl (May 21, 2014)

Bruce had had the business up for sale for quite a few years, in his usual very laid back fashion. Think he wasn't that bothered and was waiting for the right buyer to come along


----------



## leanderman (May 21, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Bruce had had the business up for sale for quite a few years, in his usual very laid back fashion. Think he wasn't that bothered and was waiting for the right buyer to come along



The generation of people who got properties basically for free, probably with flats thrown in above!


----------



## CH1 (May 21, 2014)

editor said:


> Here's the lads at work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had been thinking the dynamic duo would be better suited to the Angel with their bijou mews set, rather than My Father's Place.

It seems they should rather contact LJAG and go in with the Loughborough Farm.


----------



## leanderman (May 21, 2014)

editor said:


> Here's the lads at work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The picture is disturbing - but an extra bar is not to be sniffed at, especially with Mango gone


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 21, 2014)

.


----------



## CH1 (Jun 12, 2014)

Update on 334 (next to my Fathers Place)
Lambeth Planning have just given them planning permission to turn most of the ground floor space into a bedsit, although a small retail unti is supposed to remain at the front.
http://planning-docs.lambeth.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00487202.pdf
seems that property development rather than cocktail bars/pop-up restaurants is the name of the game.


----------



## Winot (Jun 30, 2014)

ska invita said:


> is it right that Mango has shut down?
> if so whats happened to the spot?
> very sad news if so.



A photo taken this weekend:






(Couldn't find a specific Mango Landin' thread.)


----------



## Winot (Jun 30, 2014)

Hmm...



*waves to Brixton Blog*


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2014)

They're now announced that they will be opening a "neighbourhood cocktail and snack bar" in Brixton in late Summer.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 2, 2014)

editor said:


> They're now announced that they will be opening a "neighbourhood cocktail and snack bar" in Brixton in late Summer.



Montego Inn, late July.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 2, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Montego Inn, late July.



Yeah, I heard about this. It is a great potential venue space wise, but there have been a few (Khans aside) different bars/cafes on that row which have gone under  Perhaps they will have a better offer and/or marketing team? Possibly the arrival of Effra Social and the overspill from the Hoot will make this a better location now?


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Yeah, I heard about this. It is a great potential venue space wise, but there have been a few (Khans aside) different bars/cafes on that row which have gone under  Perhaps they will have a better offer and/or marketing team? Possibly the arrival of Effra Social and the overspill from the Hoot will make this a better location now?


The rapidly shifting demographics might help too.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 2, 2014)

It could just work. Decent corner spot that the tapas place lacked.

Good news for us Lower Tulse Hillites.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2014)

I got sent this.


----------



## CH1 (Jul 8, 2014)

This thread is confusing me now. Are Salts of the Earth now going to gentrify the Hope - and have we lost all hope of gentrifying the area round My Fathers Place and the Coldharbour Lane William Hills, or what?


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2014)

CH1 said:


> This thread is confusing me now. Are Salts of the Earth now going to gentrify the Hope - and have we lost all hope of gentrifying the area round My Fathers Place and the Coldharbour Lane William Hills, or what?


They've abandoned My Fathers Place and with the new residential development being squeezed into the old solicitors next door, I guess the prospects of any kind of bar opening there are now increasingly slim.


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2014)

Notice how those banknotes have clearly spent some time rolled up in the not too distant past...


----------



## ringo (Jul 8, 2014)

They need a bit of spell check on that:

Cocktail photogarphy 
Neighburhood


----------



## CH1 (Jul 8, 2014)

ringo said:


> They need a bit of spell check on that:
> Cocktail photogarphy
> Neighburhood


Maybe they're on Serif free DTP software?


----------



## leanderman (Jul 18, 2014)

They've announced they have the keys to Coldharbour Lane.

Ruling out Montego Inn presumably.


----------



## CH1 (Jul 18, 2014)

leanderman said:


> They've announced they have the keys to Coldharbour Lane. Ruling out Montego Inn presumably.


I hope the future residents at Charles Allotey Solicitors - currently under major reconstruction - like a vibrant lifestyle.
They will have the benefit of Salts of the Earth next door to their right and the Majestic with its old school heavy bass speakers one door away to their left.


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2014)

Looks like they've started clearing out the interior of My Father's Place.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 21, 2014)

editor said:


> Looks like they've started clearing out the interior of My Father's Place.



And were excited to find this!


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2014)

leanderman said:


> And were excited to find this!



Blimey. Where is that photo from?


----------



## CH1 (Jul 21, 2014)

editor said:


> Blimey. Where is that photo from?


Maybe the former bar staff kept it for self protection? 
There have been occasional machete incidents over the years in this part of Brixton. Makes you wonder what people put in their holiday suitcases.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 21, 2014)

editor said:


> Blimey. Where is that photo from?



Their twitter feed. They are just back from Cannes, SoF don't you know!


----------



## Rushy (Jul 21, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Maybe the former bar staff kept it for self protection?


Or maybe their back yard was a little unruly.


----------



## CH1 (Jul 22, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Or maybe their back yard was a little unruly.


We do get lots of buddleia down here - comes with the railway.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 22, 2014)

CH1 said:


> We do get lots of buddleia down here - comes with the railway.


Mystery solved .


----------



## mxh (Jul 22, 2014)

Quite brave opening a bar there, good luck to them.

I give it 3 months.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 22, 2014)

mxh said:


> Quite brave opening a bar there, good luck to them.
> 
> I give it 3 months.



Montego Inn a much better option


----------



## mxh (Jul 22, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Montego Inn a much better option


The Angel pub might be more of a realistic option for a business.

Saturday night 10:00 the Albert, Market House and Dogstar were rammed, surely a need.


----------



## mxh (Jul 22, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Montego Inn a much better option


Can't they do both.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 22, 2014)

mxh said:


> Can't they do both.



Might take on the Montego myself - how difficult can it be?


----------



## Manter (Jul 22, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Might take on the Montego myself - how difficult can it be?




That is all


----------



## Winot (Jul 22, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Might take on the Montego myself - how difficult can it be?



I'd drink there. 

FOR FREE


----------



## leanderman (Jul 26, 2014)

Oh dear (from twitter):

@tweetingolivia: Good news people of #brixton - bar The Shrub and Shutter is opening on Coldharbour Lane next month #cocktails #gingloriousgin #southLondon


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Oh dear (from twitter):
> 
> @tweetingolivia: Good news people of #brixton - bar The Shrub and Shutter is opening on Coldharbour Lane next month #cocktails #gingloriousgin #southLondon


Oh for fuck's sake.


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2014)

One of the Shrub & Shutter chaps has just been "rocking another pop up in Cannes, south of France."


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2014)

editor said:


> One of the Shrub & Shutter chaps has just been "rocking another pop up in Cannes, south of France."



Perhaps some French _bravo_ will do us the favour of killing him in the face?


----------



## leanderman (Jul 26, 2014)

editor said:


> One of the Shrub & Shutter chaps has just been "rocking another pop up in Cannes, south of France."



SoF. Get with the programme!


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 26, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh for fuck's sake.



......as one door shuts ( the grosvenor ) another opens


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2014)

They've started smashing down the old sign. I found their cheering when it crashed to the ground rather sad. 

http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/07/...ce-turns-into-the-shrub-shutter-cocktail-bar/


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2014)

A much older sign has been revealed:


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Jul 28, 2014)

I just don't see this being a success. Who are they catering to?


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> I just don't see this being a success. Who are they catering to?


Most likely, the same people who are currently packing out the new Seven cocktail bar further up Coldharbour Lane, and the same people who pack in to the Village every weekend. This will become another wonderful 'destination' place to squeak about on Instagram.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jul 28, 2014)

The owners describe themselves as "cocktail counselors"


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jul 28, 2014)

I suppose it wont be long before that whole stretch is transformed into fancy eateries and vibetastic bars.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I suppose it wont be long before that whole stretch is transformed into fancy eateries and vibetastic bars.


Yep, and that will just increase the divide between nu-Brixton and the estate opposite.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jul 28, 2014)

Its strange that for years the council and old bill chose to ignore the anti social behavior and drug dealing that went on in that parade and acre lane and around the pow. But as soon as a trendy bar/cafe put in there planning permission the dealers are busted and moved on, as are the street drinkers.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> The owners describe themselves as "cocktail counselors"



Does make you wonder what the fuck they're on about, doesn't it?  Are they mental health counsellors who drink lots of cocktails, or perhaps who *prescribe* cocktails to their patients?
Or perhaps you go in the bar and they counsel you on what cocktail will re-align your chakras?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Its strange that for years the council and old bill chose to ignore the anti social behavior and drug dealing that went on in that parade and acre lane and around the pow. But as soon as a trendy bar/cafe put in there planning permission the dealers are busted and moved on, as are the street drinkers.



Yes, terribly strange, and nothing at all to do with both the council itself, *and* the local councillors being eager to gentrify their wards.  After all, IIRC one of Coldharbour Ward's councillors (at least) has made it clear that they think there's too much social housing.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yes, terribly strange, and nothing at all to do with both the council itself, *and* the local councillors being eager to gentrify their wards.  After all, IIRC one of Coldharbour Ward's councillors (at least) has made it clear that they think there's too much social housing.


In my world you, can never have enough social housing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2014)

editor said:


> In my world you, can never have enough social housing.



In mine too.


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Jul 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Most likely, the same people who are currently packing out the new Seven cocktail bar further up Coldharbour Lane, and the same people who pack in to the Village every weekend. This will become another wonderful 'destination' place to squeak about on Instagram.



Undoubtedly that's who it's aimed at - can't see them going out of their way to welcome in their immediate neighbours - but unless you know it's there I can't see it being the sort of place many people will stumble across. Why head that far down CHL when there's plenty of drinking options in the centre of Brixton?


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Undoubtedly that's who it's aimed at - can't see them going out of their way to welcome in their immediate neighbours - but unless you know it's there I can't see it being the sort of place many people will stumble across. Why head that far down CHL when there's plenty of drinking options in the centre of Brixton?


I don't think the population of the large - and quite deprived - council estate opposite is particularly in their target demographic, nor do I expect them to make any effort to reach out to include them in their shiny plans.

That's gentrification for you.


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Jul 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I don't think the population of the large - and quite deprived - council estate opposite is particularly in their target demographic, nor do I expect them to make any effort to reach out to include them in their shiny plans.
> 
> That's gentrification for you.


That's also my point. Without reaching out to people living immediately around them and making them feel they're welcome, I can't see it doing well. Brixton doesn't need another hipster drinking hole. What that part of Brixton does need is somewhere for locals to have a drink.

I won't be visiting the new bar, although it's easily the nearest place I can get a drink, as I'd feel uncomfortable being there for various reasons.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> That's also my point. Without reaching out to people living immediately around them and making them feel they're welcome, I can't see it doing well. Brixton doesn't need another hipster drinking hole. What that part of Brixton does need is somewhere for locals to have a drink.


I don't think it matters any more because bars like this don't need or particularly care about the support of the locals, when their target audience is the relatively well off one that streams into town most nights. This bar is here to serve the Village-type crowd and it's certainly close enough to entice then down.

I feel sorry for the rest of the long-established businesses on that strip because they'll soon be vulnerable to immense rent hikes once the landlords see the money to be made.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 29, 2014)

editor said:


> A much older sign has been revealed:



Revealing the nature of change. Behind that might be another sign, and another.


----------



## Strangerdanger (Jul 29, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Undoubtedly that's who it's aimed at - can't see them going out of their way to welcome in their immediate neighbours - but unless you know it's there I can't see it being the sort of place many people will stumble across. Why head that far down CHL when there's plenty of drinking options in the centre of Brixton?



You're right. I think it may be aimed at people like me. I love cocktails, I even prefer cocktail bars over pubs if I'm completely honest, but I cant see myself walking there when there are so many places right here. I would probably go to see what it is like, but generally speaking I'm far too lazy. 

On another note I tried that new bar on Coldharbour Lane this weekend. It was alright actually. I liked that they have a fairly extensive cocktail menu, but also that the place didn't feel too polished. (Oh God, I think I may actually be a hipster.) I agree with editor though, the first thing I said to my other half was that its the beginning of the end for the other businesses on that bit of CHL. The place was packed.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2014)

Their licence runs until 2.30am on Thursdays and 4am at weekends and also covers live music. Great.


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Aug 1, 2014)

editor said:


> Their licence runs until 2.30am on Thursdays and 4am at weekends and also covers live music. Great.


How'd they get away with that when they've got residents directly above?


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> How'd they get away with that when they've got residents directly above?


----------



## Rushy (Aug 1, 2014)

That's a bold statement.

Are you sure it is a new licence and not just the old one transferred? I may be wrong but it strikes me that, given the generous hours, it is probably the same licence which My Father's Place had in place for years. I'd be surprised if Lambeth would give a new one like that anymore.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2014)

Rushy said:


> That's a bold statement.
> 
> Are you sure it is a new licence and not just the old one transferred? I may be wrong but it strikes me that, given the generous hours, it is probably the same licence which My Father's Place had in place for years. I'd be surprised if Lambeth would give a new one like that anymore.


I just mean that the latest wave of nu-Brixton _entrepreneurs_ have the wealth, the contacts and the background to get what they want. They have the resources to iron over any hiccups, be flexible in their plans and almost always get what they like. That's what money does.

Or perhaps they're the new sort that knows how to scoop up fat grants and awards on their way. You know, the sort of thing that local people running small 'uncool' businesses probably have no idea about.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 1, 2014)

editor said:


> I just mean that the latest wave of nu-Brixton _entrepreneurs_ have the wealth, the contacts and the background to get what they want. They have the resources to iron over any hiccups, be flexible in their plans and almost always get what they like. That's what money does.
> 
> Or perhaps they're the new sort that knows how to scoop up fat grants and awards on their way. You know, the sort of thing that local people running small 'uncool' businesses probably have no idea about.


But where did you get the info about hours? If they have just taken over the old one then (almost) anyone who took on the lease could have kept the licence. No ironing, grants or contacts necessary.
I'd be staggered to discover that they have wangled a _new_ licence on the terms you described.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2014)

Rushy said:


> But where did you get the info about hours? If they have just taken over the old one then (almost) anyone who took on the lease could have kept the licence. No ironing, grants or contacts necessary.
> I'd be staggered to discover that they have wangled a _new_ licence on the terms you described.


The Londonist posted it up.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 1, 2014)

Larry's 2006 license application was for:
• Hours open to the public 12:00 to 03:00 Monday to Sunday. 
• Supply of alcohol and recorded music to the public 12:00 to 03:00 Monday to Sunday. 
• Provision of facilities for dancing for the public 18:00 to 03:00 Monday to Sunday and 
• Provision of late night refreshment to the public 23:00 to 03:00 Monday to Sunday.
No idea if he got that - but I certainly went in a few times 1-2 am in the week.


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## editor (Aug 21, 2014)

Soft launch coming up at the end of the month.


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## T & P (Aug 21, 2014)

editor said:


> *Soft launch* coming up at the end of the month.



The last time I saw that expression in this forum in reference to the opening of a bar, all hell broke loose


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## editor (Aug 21, 2014)

T & P said:


> The last time I saw that expression in this forum in reference to the opening of a bar, all hell broke loose


Soft launch is the new pop up. Or something.


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## Ms T (Aug 21, 2014)

editor said:


> Soft launch is the new pop up. Or something.


Quite common in the restaurant trade. Usually means lower prices while they iron out any problems.


----------



## Coldharbourgirl (Aug 22, 2014)

CH1 said:


> A friend did some black and white photos of the shops/Barrier Block/houses in my part of Coldharbour Lane. I have A4-ish prints of some, these "contacts" and the negatives.
> View attachment 48141
> View attachment 48142
> View attachment 48143


I was born above one of those shops and my Dad ran the shop below for many years. Any chance I could get copies - specifically of Gresham Spares - the big corner shop?


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## editor (Aug 22, 2014)

Coldharbourgirl said:


> I was born above one of those shops and my Dad ran the shop below for many years. Any chance I could get copies - specifically of Gresham Spares - the big corner shop?


I did a feature on Gresham Spares here - http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/lost-shops.html


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## Coldharbourgirl (Aug 22, 2014)

gabi said:


> He was a tough old bastard. I lived next to my fathers place for a couple of years and me and my flatmate got to know him. That backroom of his was fucking incredible, he wasn't immune to a bit of name-dropping either, worked with some of the greats. He helped my flatmate get his first record pressed too i seem to remember. He was the don of that little block of shops/flats.





editor said:


> I did a feature on Gresham Spares here - http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/lost-shops.html





editor said:


> I did a feature on Gresham Spares here - http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/lost-shops.html


----------



## Coldharbourgirl (Aug 22, 2014)

editor said:


> I did a feature on Gresham Spares here - http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/lost-shops.html


Oh I didnt know about that. Tony is my brother! He lived in Brixton for a time. My Dad will love seeing all this. I dont think he found it easy leaving Brixton - he was the last of many generations in Lambeth. Thanks.


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## leanderman (Aug 22, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Quite common in the restaurant trade. Usually means lower prices while they iron out any problems.



In this case, a free cocktail and a bit of food. £5 thereafter, before prices reach normal levels, whatever that is.


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## leanderman (Aug 27, 2014)

Opening tomorrow. I'll report back.


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Opening tomorrow. I'll report back.


I might see you there!


----------



## CH1 (Aug 28, 2014)

How come all the radicals are getting invited to free canapés at the Shrub and Shutter when there has been all this flack in the past? I will be attending the Proms as usual - but fascinated to hear the verdict of the local cognoscenti.


----------



## editor (Aug 28, 2014)

CH1 said:


> How come all the radicals are getting invited to free canapés at the Shrub and Shutter when there has been all this flack in the past? I will be attending the Proms as usual - but fascinated to hear the verdict of the local cognoscenti.


I'll always give a new place a fair go, even if I have to drown out the alarm bells in my head.


----------



## leanderman (Aug 28, 2014)

editor said:


> I'll always give a new place a fair go, even if I have to drown out the alarm bells in my head.



I'm there at 7pm, with Leanderwoman


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Aug 28, 2014)

If there's free drink, I wanna come.


----------



## CH1 (Aug 28, 2014)

Windows looked steamy when I came past about 30 minutes ago. Reports????


----------



## leanderman (Aug 29, 2014)

Head hurts too much to type


----------



## T & P (Aug 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Head hurts too much to type


 That counts as a good review, I guess... Unless you meant you got a kicking at the place last night


----------



## leanderman (Aug 29, 2014)

T & P said:


> That counts as a good review, I guess... Unless you meant you got a kicking at the place last night



Very, very good (and large) cocktails. £5 offer price. I expect they'll be £10 after soft launch. 

Friendly. Awkward two-room space. Felt quite West London - not something I usually note or care about.


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## Winot (Aug 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Friendly. Awkward two-room space. Felt quite West London - not something I usually note or care about.



Further west than Cla'am?


----------



## Rushy (Aug 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Very, very good (and large) cocktails. £5 offer price. I expect they'll be £10 after soft launch.
> 
> Friendly. Awkward two-room space. Felt quite West London - not something I usually note or care about.



Is that a bowl of cocktail?!


----------



## T & P (Aug 29, 2014)

The cocktail names are really fucking daft, but other than that they seem rather appealing


----------



## Winot (Aug 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Is that a bowl of cocktail?!



With a glass of wine chaser by the looks of things.


----------



## leanderman (Aug 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Is that a bowl of cocktail?!



Yes. And even larger than it looks.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm a bit confudled, do the cocktails actually have salmon and venison in them or is it a flavouring


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

I went past last night and noticed that the space did look a little awkward. I liked the fact that the frontage wasn't garish at all and there wasn't loud music thumping out. Maybe we'll all get along just fine 

Not sure about a "drinks program" though. Does the drink come out of your smartphone?


----------



## leanderman (Aug 29, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I'm a bit confudled, do the cocktails actually have salmon and venison in them or is it a flavouring



God knows. I recall nothing much of my gentrification tour last night: 328 bar, Shrub, Brindisa, C&F, Wine Parlour, Kaff, Effra Social. Effra Tavern as well, which had the best mix of people.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Aug 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> God knows. I recall nothing much of my gentrification tour last night: 328 bar, Shrub, Brindisa, C&F, Wine Parlour, Kaff, Effra Social. Effra Tavern as well, which had the best mix of people.



Thirsty work with all the walking you did.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Aug 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Very, very good (and large) cocktails. £5 offer price. I expect they'll be £10 after soft launch.
> 
> Friendly. Awkward two-room space. Felt quite West London - not something I usually note or care about.



Jugged peas looks more suited to the Soup menu.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Aug 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> God knows. I recall nothing much of my gentrification tour last night: 328 bar, Shrub, Brindisa, C&F, Wine Parlour, Kaff, Effra Social. Effra Tavern as well, which had the best mix of people.



8 venue crawl. Hardcore


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## Winot (Aug 29, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> 8 venue crawl. Hardcore



Plus the 2 bottles of wine he and I shared at lunchtime...


----------



## Manter (Aug 29, 2014)

Blimey.


----------



## Winot (Aug 29, 2014)

Manter said:


> Blimey.



To be fair, we had been left in charge of 6 children, so it was necessary rather than through choice.


----------



## Manter (Aug 29, 2014)

Winot said:


> To be fair, we had been left in charge of 6 children, so it was necessary rather than through choice.


Is drunk in charge of future tax payers an  offence yet?


----------



## teuchter (Aug 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> God knows. I recall nothing much of my gentrification tour last night: 328 bar, Shrub, Brindisa, C&F, Wine Parlour, Kaff, Effra Social. Effra Tavern as well, which had the best mix of people.


Did you remember to urinate/vomit on the streets at a couple of points too? It's easy to forget seeing as it's only been introduced since gentrification.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 30, 2014)

CH1 said:


> How come all the radicals are getting invited to free canapés at the Shrub and Shutter when there has been all this flack in the past? I will be attending the Proms as usual - but fascinated to hear the verdict of the local cognoscenti.



S&S started following me on twitter a few weeks ago. 

Do not know why. I use the same avatar.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Aug 30, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Very, very good (and large) cocktails. £5 offer price. I expect they'll be £10 after soft launch.
> 
> Friendly. Awkward two-room space. Felt quite West London - not something I usually note or care about.



Very fancy list....OTT and hipster looking though, and social network cocktail??

Bet the place really sucks.


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## CH1 (Aug 30, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> S&S started following me on twitter a few weeks ago.
> 
> Do not know why. I use the same avatar.


Looks like I'd better change one of my avatars - or I'll be left out in the cold!


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## Rushy (Aug 30, 2014)

I popped in after dinner last night. Not a hipster crowd. Quite a basic fit out. Very friendly if a bit chaotic service (it's mostly seated). We were given free cocktails when we arrived, and some little tapas dishes which was a nice touch. Weirdly, we had just decided what we were going to order when a waiter put down our exact order in front of us. Now _that's_ service! Unfortunately they were for the people at the next table.

Tried two more - the Shrub and Shutter and the Av a Zombie & Bitch. I'd describe both as a bit challenging rather than particularly enjoyable - probably need some tweaking - one was too tart and the other a bit oily. I can't remember what my gf had but her first choice was very tasty.

Neither blown away nor put off by the place. A cocktail bar is never going to be a regular thing for me but I imagine that I'll give it another go once it has settled in.

Apparently the Brixton Water Lane site needed a lot more money spent to make it useable.


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## Winot (Aug 30, 2014)

Looking forward to trying it, but have to say I'm not a fan of 'innovative' cocktails - don't mess with the classics I say.


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## Rushy (Aug 30, 2014)

Winot said:


> Looking forward to trying it, but have to say I'm not a fan of 'innovative' cocktails - don't mess with the classics I say.


Yeah - I think they were probably a bit too ambitious on the whole. For me, anyway.


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## T & P (Aug 30, 2014)

Any dry ice on show, or similar Blumenthalesque effects available?


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## leanderman (Aug 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Yeah - I think they were probably a bit too ambitious on the whole. For me, anyway.



Tried three cocktails in S&S and three in 328. Preferred the former each time. Though the later caipirinhas at Kaff were excellent.


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## Ms T (Aug 31, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Tried three cocktails in S&S and three in 328. Preferred the former each time. Though the later caipirinhas at Kaff were excellent.


Blimey! Did you have to be carried home? Excellent work though from some urbz on the market research.


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## teuchter (Aug 31, 2014)

Is leanderman trying to snatch the title of u75's no.1 Brixton nightlife denizen from our Dear Leader?


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

A friend of mine went on Saturday to this 'neighbourhood cocktail & snack bar' and she wasn't very impressed. She thought all the meat/cocktail stuff was confusing (was there meat in the cocktail?) and the 'social network' cocktail for £10 didn't wow her much either. She thought the layout was awkward, the vibe a bit 'uncomfortable' with the clientèle coming from a very, very narrow social demographic. 

But this reviewer seemed to enjoy it: http://speakeasyfindhard.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/nanban-at-market-house-shrub-shutter.html

I'll give it a go if I ever get flush enough.

(If you can't be bothered to click on that link, I can summarise it for you: "Raa raa raa. We went to this amazing exclusive cocktail bar and spent a fortune on round after round of jolly artisan snacks and wacky hand-sculpted pricey cocktails. Then we went to another lovely cocktail bar and spent another fortune doing the same until we got a cab back to wherever the fuck we came from...")


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## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Tried three cocktails in S&S and three in 328. Preferred the former each time. Though the later caipirinhas at Kaff were excellent.


Substantial difference in price too!


----------



## elmpp (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> A friend of mine went on Saturday to this 'neighbourhood cocktail & snack bar' and she wasn't very impressed. She thought all the meat/cocktail stuff was confusing (was there meat in the cocktail?) and the 'social network' cocktail for £10 didn't wow her much either. She thought the layout was awkward, the vibe a bit 'uncomfortable' with the clientèle coming from a very, very narrow social demographic.
> 
> But this reviewer seemed to enjoy it: http://speakeasyfindhard.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/nanban-at-market-house-shrub-shutter.html
> 
> ...


Yawn


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

elmpp said:


> Yawn


You should go back to bed if you're so tired. Or perhaps just not bother wasting everyone's time with pointless posts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2014)

elmpp said:


> Yawn



Do you train hard to be such a bit tedious wanker, or is it a natural talent?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Substantial difference in price too!



Exactly. Cocktails should be an inflation-proofed £7. Forever. Kaff is great value, especially with Brixton pound discount.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> (If you can't be bothered to click on that link, I can summarise it for you: "Raa raa raa. We went to this amazing exclusive cocktail bar and spent a fortune on round after round of jolly artisan snacks and wacky hand-sculpted pricey cocktails. Then we went to another lovely cocktail bar and spent another fortune doing the same until we got a cab back to wherever the fuck we came from...")



I can't find the reference to taking a cab home.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 9, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Do you train hard to be such a bit tedious wanker, or is it a natural talent?


why is that being a tedious wanker?


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 9, 2014)

There is a cocktail bar opened up like 20 meters from my door. On Friday already assways from celebrating the wives new job we gave it a go. We were asked did we have a reservation. I said no, but your jazz band does keep us awake each Thursday evening. We were admitted. 

I had their "take" on a Moscow mule. It was served in a glass that had a screw top with a handle but nothing to screw onto it. I had to suck it through a length of macaroni. It was delicious. It was €14. The bar man was very nice. He was a hipster with a Boardwalk Empire thing going on. I'd go back but probably won't. 

This time 2 months I'll be drinking in the Canterbury Brixton


----------



## boohoo (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> A friend of mine went on Saturday to this 'neighbourhood cocktail & snack bar' and she wasn't very impressed. She thought all the meat/cocktail stuff was confusing (was there meat in the cocktail?) and the 'social network' cocktail for £10 didn't wow her much either. She thought the layout was awkward, the vibe a bit 'uncomfortable' with the clientèle coming from a very, very narrow social demographic.
> 
> But this reviewer seemed to enjoy it: http://speakeasyfindhard.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/nanban-at-market-house-shrub-shutter.html



Reviewers don't tend to be too critical.


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 9, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> This time 2 months I'll be drinking in the Canterbury Brixton



Sadly not sure you will be mate. I've been away for a month so not sure if it's closed yet or not.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 9, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Sadly not sure you will be mate. I've been away for a month so not sure if it's closed yet or not.


Apparently it's going to be around until Christmas.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 9, 2014)

The reviewer teaches the violin to primary school kids for a charity.  Must pay quite well!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2014)

boohoo said:


> why is that being a tedious wanker?



Why wouldn't it be the work of a tedious wanker? Posting the word "yawn" is tedium personified - it says so little as to not be worth saying, and I say that as someone guilty of posting it myself in the past - why not say what it is that causes you to yawn?


----------



## Ms T (Sep 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> The reviewer teaches the violin to primary school kids for a charity.  Must pay quite well!



Mind you, a lot of bloggers get free stuff, or so I've heard.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 9, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Why wouldn't it be the work of a tedious wanker? Posting the word "yawn" is tedium personified - it says so little as to not be worth saying, and I say that as someone guilty of posting it myself in the past - why not say what it is that causes you to yawn?



It's the language - it's aggressive. Why isn't there some challenging in a non-aggressive manner? For example: asking him what made him yawn- the review by the friend of the editor, the review by the blog, the editor post and if so why? 

Because when posters start annoying each other, they start ignoring people and then miss out when those  persons have something valid to say.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Mind you, a lot of bloggers get free stuff, or so I've heard.



Mummy bloggers and fashion bloggers do so I'd be utterly surprised if all the other bloggers aren't getting something or at least offers.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Mummy bloggers and fashion bloggers do so I'd be utterly surprised if all the other bloggers aren't getting something or at least offers.


Apart from 'soft launch' deals (which are more generally available) we've never been offered discounts on cocktails anywhere, and Brixton Buzz is by far the biggest local site.


boohoo said:


> Mummy bloggers


One of my pet hate phrases there, btw.


leanderman said:


> Exactly. Cocktails should be an inflation-proofed £7. Forever. Kaff is great value, especially with Brixton pound discount.


Kaff do excellent cocktails for £3 on Thursdays.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

boohoo said:


> It's the language - it's aggressive. Why isn't there some challenging in a non-aggressive manner? For example: asking him what made him yawn- the review by the friend of the editor, the review by the blog, the editor post and if so why?


The 'yawn' post was just a negative, inflammatory dismissal and refusal to engage with any of the points contained in my post. I'm not saying the response by ViolentPanda was any better, but it started with elmpp's pointless comment.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> The 'yawn' post was just a negative, inflammatory dismissal and refusal to engage with any of the points contained in my post. I'm not saying the response by ViolentPanda was any better, but it started with elmpp's pointless comment.



Fair summary.

Far too much aggression on here, in my view. But apparently that is what can happen on forums.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Far too much aggression on here, in my view.


I agree. You fucker.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm not saying the response by ViolentPanda was any better,



Why endorse it with a "like" then?


__


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Why endorse it with a "like" then?


Because I sympathised with the frustration expressed, but not the content, and elaborated on that afterwards.

I do hope you're not going to continue to take screengrabs and quiz selected people about every 'like' they make, btw.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 9, 2014)

Likewise the "yawn" post expressed frustration that others sympathise with.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Likewise the "yawn" post expressed frustration that others sympathise with.


Ah. The silent ones.

Can we get back to discussing the actual topic now please?


----------



## T & P (Sep 9, 2014)

I did notice in the review in question that one particular cocktail comes with a banger (on the side, not in the glass), and you are welcome to use it at any time you feel like it


----------



## Rushy (Sep 9, 2014)

To be honest I thought "tedious wanker" and "yawn" were pretty much interchangeable comments.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah. The silent ones.



I know a few people who enjoy the site, silently - to avoid the aggression.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I know a few people who enjoy the site, silently - to avoid the aggression.


Me too and I've had many messages about it. I find it rather sad, but it seems pretty much unstoppable. 


Rushy said:


> To be honest I thought "tedious wanker" and "yawn" were pretty much interchangeable comments.


Thanks for that. Can we move on now and perhaps get back to the topic under discussion?


T & P said:


> I did notice in the review in question that one particular cocktail comes with a banger (on the side, not in the glass), and you are welcome to use it at any time you feel like it


That review site is awful. It reads like the self satisfied witterings of easily-pleased people with more money than sense.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 9, 2014)

I thought the yawn comment was a perfectly acceptable way to express their exasperation. Succinct. And quite a bit less aggressive than ViolentPanda's.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> I thought the yawn comment was a perfectly acceptable way to express their exasperation. Succinct. And quite a bit less aggressive than ViolentPanda's.


Their "exasperation" with _what_ exactly? The post contained more than one viewpoint (not just mine) and included several points on related topics.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Their "exasperation" with _what_ exactly? The post contained more than one viewpoint (not just mine) and included several points on related topics.



I assumed with this bit....



editor said:


> "Raa raa raa. We went to this amazing exclusive cocktail bar and spent a fortune on round after round of jolly artisan snacks and wacky hand-sculpted pricey cocktails. Then we went to another lovely cocktail bar and spent another fortune doing the same until we got a cab back to wherever the fuck we came from...")


----------



## salem (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> That review site is awful. It reads like the self satisfied witterings of easily-pleased people with more money than sense.


I find that with most blogs, they are self indulgent by nature. For ever decent one there are a hundred cringe worthy ones like that one


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> I assumed with this bit....


No, sorry, you can't now cherrypick 'assumptions' after you've announced that the 'yawn' comment was a "perfectly acceptable" response to the entire post.

The post contained several points. Read it again.


editor said:


> A friend of mine went on Saturday to this 'neighbourhood cocktail & snack bar' and she wasn't very impressed. She thought all the meat/cocktail stuff was confusing (was there meat in the cocktail?) and the 'social network' cocktail for £10 didn't wow her much either. She thought the layout was awkward, the vibe a bit 'uncomfortable' with the clientèle coming from a very, very narrow social demographic.
> 
> But this reviewer seemed to enjoy it: http://speakeasyfindhard.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/nanban-at-market-house-shrub-shutter.html
> 
> ...


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 9, 2014)

No, sorry, you can't tell me my interpretation of their post was incorrect. It was my interpretation. Read my post again; it said "I thought..."


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

salem said:


> I find that with most blogs, they are self indulgent by nature. For ever decent one there are a hundred cringe worthy ones like that one


Indeed. That one really is especially awful though.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 9, 2014)

I had an advertising leaflet from S & S left on my top step this morning. Very good quality paper/card. Would have scanned, but it's too late now to put my main computer on.

Whenever I go past (when it's not shut - in the morning for example) there seem to be people in there doing things and - kind of - relating to each other.

I have 2 problems with S & S:
1. the high cost - unfundable in my own case, unless someone else is paying
2. the close interraction.

I go to the Beehive for a drink hoping to bump into people different from me who I can interact with in a non-committal but hopefully pleasant way.

Looks to me that the World of S & S is one of similar people from a relatively narrow social spectrum - in fact about as opposite to diverse as one could expect in Brixton.  And I feel that I just would not gel with them.

I was surprised to see "Soft Opening" invites from S & S on their Twitter channel going to people who I would have thought were in a similar situation to myself. But then maybe S & S - with the best of intentions - are reaching out to a community which just can't for economic reasons respond!


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> No, sorry, you can't tell me my interpretation of their post was incorrect. It was my interpretation. Read my post again; it said "I thought..."


Sorry, I can't be arsed with any more of your pointless shit stirring 'interpretations'. If you're not interested in discussing the substance of the posts, I'll just ignore you.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Looks to me that the World of S & S is one of similar people from a relatively narrow social spectrum - in fact about as opposite to diverse as one could expect in Brixton.


That's about the sum of it. I don't imagine many of their nearest neighbours will be regulars there.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 10, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah. The silent ones.



If people feel exasperated with your posts they have two options: remain silent, or say something and go round the houses to end up with this:



editor said:


> Sorry, I can't be arsed with any more of your pointless shit stirring 'interpretations'. If you're not interested in discussing the substance of the posts, I'll just ignore you.



It's 101% pointless trying to explain this to you though. I'm off to smash my head against a brick wall now.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

Oh, I see that awful site has stolen a load of my pics too.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

teuchter said:


> snipped: usual bullying.


Stop trying to ruin threads, please.


teuchter said:


> It's 101% pointless trying to explain this to you though.


Then don't bother trying.


----------



## aussw9 (Sep 10, 2014)

Went in over the weekend. Not sure what to make of it. Quite enjoy the drinks I had and the side plates that are paired with them. 

Strange atmosphere, kind of felt like i was sitting in someones kitchen. 

Cocktails too pricey for me to drink their regularly, serious lack of whiskey / rum cocktails for my liking. 

Will give it another go later to see if I change my mind, being early days and see how it progresses.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> Strange atmosphere, kind of felt like i was sitting in someones kitchen.


A few of my friends all reached pretty much the same conclusion. One described it as being like being as someone's private house party but feeling a bit like 'they hadn't been invited'. 

I can't afford their prices so am unlikely to be there in the foreseeable.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

Did they say why they felt "like they hadn't been invited"?


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 10, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Apparently it's going to be around until Christmas.



Cool, time for me to get down there a couple more times. Might see you there!


----------



## salem (Sep 10, 2014)

editor said:


> A few of my friends all reached pretty much the same conclusion. One described it as being like being as someone's private house party but feeling a bit like 'they hadn't been invited'.
> 
> I can't afford their prices so am unlikely to be there in the foreseeable.


I know exactly that feeling, it's horrible and always the danger with making somewhere feel homely. It's a thin line to tread and really comes down to the people as much as anything. Saying that I've had the same feeling in more 'local' pubs too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 10, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> I thought the yawn comment was a perfectly acceptable way to express their exasperation. Succinct. And quite a bit less aggressive than ViolentPanda's.



It's so succinct it expresses nothing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 10, 2014)

teuchter said:


> If people feel exasperated with your posts they have two options: remain silent, or say something and go round the houses to end up with this:
> 
> 
> 
> It's 101% pointless trying to explain this to you though. I'm off to smash my head against a brick wall now.



Please post pictures of your head/wall interaction.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> Cocktails too pricey for me to drink their regularly, serious lack of whiskey / rum cocktails for my liking.



I'd happily go back - the cocktails are amazing.

However, I'd drink three, so would my wife, and it would cost £60.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I'd happily go back - the cocktails are amazing.


And so they should be for the price/location.

I can't afford a night there though.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

editor said:


> I can't afford a night there though.



I can't afford an hour there


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I can't afford an hour there


I don't think I'd want to spend a night there anyway, even if I was rich enough.

But they have a glowing Time Out review coming up soon, so I dare say they'll be able to survive in my absence.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 11, 2014)

Back from the Beehive where I had pleasant hour's chat with 4 members of the Stop the War Coalition out of their meeting. Nuff said.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 11, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Back from the Beehive where I had pleasant hour's chat with 4 members of the Stop the War Coalition out of their meeting. Nuff said.



I thought you said you wanted to meet different people!


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 11, 2014)

I'll only be visiting if I can guarantee my cocktail will be served in a jam jar.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I thought you said you wanted to meet different people!


You got me there.

At 12.15 am they still had several customers in when I walked past - so the marketing seems to be working. Remarkably actually for mid-week on that part of Coldharbour Lane.

Are they actually offering entertainment as well - I mean they say they are Impressarios and they always seem to be hovering around. Like is is stand-up cocktail shaking?

You must know - you have been soft-launched! And I think we should be told.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

CH1 said:


> You got me there.
> 
> At 12.15 am they still had several customers in when I walked past - so the marketing seems to be working. Remarkably actually for mid-week on that part of Coldharbour Lane.
> 
> ...


That rich-kid review said that there was a jazz band playing in the back on the might they were throwing money around. To be honest, I like the fact that they've opted to completely copy the Brookyln template and have a low lit bar as their impact (so far) has been truly minimal. They've been no bother at all thus far even if they've priced out much of the immediate neighbourhood. 

Mind you they do have a gushing Time Out review coming out so that may send the braying hordes down from the Village, keen to experience the next amaaaaazing thing about nu-Brixton.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> That rich-kid review said that there was a jazz band playing in the back on the might they were throwing money around. To be honest, I like the fact that they've opted to completely copy the Brookyln template and have a low lit bar as their impact (so far) has been truly minimal. They've been no bother at all thus far even if they've priced out much of the immediate neighbourhood.
> 
> Mind you they do have a gushing Time Out review coming out so that may send the braying hordes down from the Village, keen to experience the next amaaaaazing thing about nu-Brixton.


So long as they don't kick my bin over!


----------



## leanderman (Sep 16, 2014)

Hilarious:


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2014)

A fiver for a "tiny plate" of food isn't very funny.


----------



## gabi (Sep 16, 2014)

9 quid for a cocktail would be pretty fucking outrageous at a lot of the finer places here in HK. I admire the sheer cheek of this lot, if nothing else.

Larry will be turning in his grave though.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2014)

gabi said:


> 9 quid for a cocktail would be pretty fucking outrageous at a lot of the finer places here in HK. I admire the sheer cheek of this lot, if nothing else.
> 
> Larry will be turning in his grave though.


The village attracts free spending types, so I'm sure £9 for a cocktail and £5 for a tiny snack will be easily affordable for them. Not for most of the folks living opposite though, natch,


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 16, 2014)

Is the cocktail menu online?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 16, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Is the cocktail menu online?



Not really: http://www.theshrubandshutter.com/

See post #466


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 16, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Not really: http://www.theshrubandshutter.com/
> 
> See post #466



Cheers leanderman 

The website wasn't overly useful but your previous post was


----------



## boohoo (Sep 16, 2014)

Not sure about meat with cocktails otherwise they sounds very nice. I now fancy a cocktail crawl although my limit between my purse and my drinking abilities is two. I get a night out about once a month or once every six weeks so I am allow a treat.

Although I'd probably try the Kaff cocktails first.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 16, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Not sure about meat with cocktails otherwise they sounds very nice. I now fancy a cocktail crawl although my limit between my purse and my drinking abilities is two. I get a night out about once a month or once every six weeks so I am allow a treat.
> 
> Although I'd probably try the Kaff cocktails first.



SnS's cocktails are stunningly good - but I'll be sticking to Kaff.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Although I'd probably try the Kaff cocktails first.


Far better choice all round, IMO.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 16, 2014)

editor said:


> Far better choice all round, IMO.



i like going to Cafe Cairo for cocktails though I cant remember how much they cost.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 25, 2014)

They have a sign


----------



## teuchter (Sep 25, 2014)

Designed such that those who cannot read can recognise the name, like the pub signs of yesteryear.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 25, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Designed such that those who cannot read can recognise the name, like the pub signs of yesteryear.


Easily confused with The Kitchen Cabinet and Artichoke.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 25, 2014)

Or the Ventilation Grille and Pine Cone.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Those crazy guys!


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 26, 2014)

leanderman said:


> They have a sign


Walked past that yesterday. It's hanging very low. Anyone taller than me would hit their head on it.


----------



## happyshopper (Sep 26, 2014)

The eatinbrixton bloggers have done a review here. I wonder if it's just a bit too far from the centre to make a success with those prices.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Walked past that yesterday. It's hanging very low. Anyone taller than me would hit their head on it.


Some may find a sign hanging that low an irresistible temptation. 

It looked empty last night when I went past.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2014)

happyshopper said:


> The eatinbrixton bloggers have done a review here. I wonder if it's just a bit too far from the centre to make a success with those prices.


Good for them for bothering to review Majestic - a place where most trendy nu-Brix bloggers fear to tread -  although they lose points for describing a teapot as "adorable" in their Shrub review.


----------



## oryx (Sep 26, 2014)

editor said:


> although they lose points for describing a teapot as "adorable" in their Shrub review.



I'm not that likely to go there but the idea of a cocktail containing chicken skin  makes me gag. I'm not even veggie.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 26, 2014)

This bit made me piss myself laughing "The first was a “bandage of brothers” which arrives in a small neat glass accompanied by a bit of gun powder, a toy soldier and a plaster".

It's reminds when The Simpsons were taking the piss out of Yoko Ono "I'd like a single plum, floating in perfume, served in a man's hat".


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> This bit made me piss myself laughing "The first was a “bandage of brothers” which arrives in a small neat glass accompanied by a bit of gun powder, a toy soldier and a plaster".
> 
> It's reminds when The Simpsons were taking the piss out of Yoko Ono "I'd like a single plum, floating in perfume, served in a man's hat".


Chris Morris predicted all this: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...he-pisstake-bar-guide-by-chris-morris.327735/


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Some may find a sign hanging that low an irresistible temptation.
> 
> It looked empty last night when I went past.


Thursday and Friday they had young women stood outside trying to encourage people in and last night it was shut completely.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Good for them for bothering to review Majestic - a place where most trendy nu-Brix bloggers fear to tread -  although they lose points for describing a teapot as "adorable" in their Shrub review.


I actually give that blog a lot of credit. They have reviewed loads of established places. The "adorable" seems more of a slip than the norm albeit a major one to be fair.


----------



## Thaw (Sep 29, 2014)

I was in on Saturday night. It was packed and there were no bouncers or women trying to drum up business. We had 9 different drinks between us and it was a bit of a relief to find the sashimi, venison and cheese are served separately rather than in the drink itself. The stuff I had was good but I thought the chocolate+truffle thing and the one with soy sauce were horrendous.

Its gimmicky and silly but we had fun.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> Thursday and Friday they had young women stood outside trying to encourage people in and last night it was shut completely.


Aye, I saw that as well. I saw a bouncer there on Saturday night too. There's always one there as far as I can see, just like the other posh bar up the road.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

I might be wrong but if there is a late license you have to have a doorman/bouncer.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I might be wrong but if there is a late license you have to have a doorman/bouncer.


That 384 place has had a bouncer outside in the daytime, and the Albert has none.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> That 384 place has had a bouncer outside in the daytime, and the Albert has none.


Fair enough, i was wrong


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2014)

One unhappy customer:


----------



## elmpp (Oct 13, 2014)

editor said:


> One unhappy customer:



yawn


----------



## leanderman (Oct 13, 2014)

editor said:


> One unhappy customer:




That really is trying it on. You should not leave customers in the position where they have to ask for the 'service' charge to be taken off.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 13, 2014)

leanderman said:


> That really is trying it on. You should not leave customers in the position where they have to ask for the 'service' charge to be taken off.


Yup, especially as most people would be  embarrassed to ask...or is that what they're counting on?


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Yup, especially as most people would be  embarrassed to ask...or is that what they're counting on?


Perhaps they're thinking that the kind of people who can afford £10 for a novelty cocktail will have enough disposable income not to be bothered to quibble over 'extras' being surreptitiously added to the bill.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 13, 2014)

editor said:


> Perhaps they're thinking that the kind of people who can afford £10 for a novelty cocktail will have enough disposable income not to be bothered to quibble over 'extras' being surreptitiously added to the bill.



Buy six drinks, pay for seven!


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2014)

The row continues!


----------



## CH1 (Oct 13, 2014)

editor said:


> The row continues!



Surprised they could get 30 in the front bar. She must mean the back bar.
Must say I would be furious if I was overcharged intentionally - but what is this bit about "optional"?


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 13, 2014)

#hashtagsareforwankers


----------



## teuchter (Oct 13, 2014)

Urban75 must stand in solidarity with Brixton Mummy on this issue.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 13, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Urban75 must stand in solidarity with Brixton Mummy on this issue.



I suspect she posts here


----------



## salem (Oct 13, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Surprised they could get 30 in the front bar. She must mean the back bar.
> Must say I would be furious if I was overcharged intentionally - but what is this bit about "optional"?


Presumably it's an 'optional' service charge like you'd get in a restaurant - kind of like a tip you have to opt out of. Except in a huge number of cases the service charge just goes to the companies bottom line.

Very few people are going to make a scene and ask for it to be removed.

Could someone ask how their #optionalservicecharge gets distributed



DietCokeGirl said:


> #hashtagsareforwankers



That tweet does come across as unbelievably arrogent, smug. I want to give them a slap and was otherwise fairly on the fence regarding this bar.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 14, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I suspect she posts here


I think it says in the FAQs that posh people aren't allowed on u75.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I think it says in the FAQs that posh people aren't allowed on u75.


Why do you feel the need to post up such  lies? Does it make you feel clever, or do you just want to try and disrupt the discussion?


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> #hashtagsareforwankers


Yeah! That's the real issue here.


leanderman said:


> I suspect she posts here


Why?


salem said:


> That tweet does come across as unbelievably arrogent, smug. I want to give them a slap and was otherwise fairly on the fence regarding this bar.


You want to_ hit_ a woman because she happens to use hashtags to express her opinion? Jeez.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 14, 2014)

I think you've come home late and got the wrong end of the argument.


----------



## SpamMisery (Oct 14, 2014)

Seconded


----------



## leanderman (Oct 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Why?.



Just a suspicion - because she reads Brixton Buzz and some of her tweets are from an anti-gentrification anti-'yuppification' perspective


----------



## T & P (Oct 14, 2014)

It has got to be said that hidden/unfair charges have sweet fuck all to do with gentrification. Her hashtag on the matter was as gratitious as completely unrelated to the complain at hand.


----------



## salem (Oct 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Yeah! That's the real issue here.
> Why?
> You want to_ hit_ a woman because she happens to use hashtags to express her opinion? Jeez.


The #optionalservicecharge was the cocktail guys response to the woman's query no? Dismissing a customers valid query with just a hashtag is pretty arrogent and pushed my wind up buttons.

And I say slap in a jokey mockney way rather then as a direct threat to go down and slap them over it. No actual violence offered FFS!


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2014)

salem said:


> The #optionalservicecharge was the cocktail guys response to the woman's query no?


Oops. My apologies!


salem said:


> Dismissing a customers valid query with just a hashtag is pretty arrogent and pushed my wind up buttons.


Yes, it is a pretty awful way to treat someone who has just spent a ton of cash in a bar.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 14, 2014)

salem said:


> The #optionalservicecharge was the cocktail guys response to the woman's query no? Dismissing a customers valid query with just a hashtag is pretty arrogent and pushed my wind up buttons.
> 
> And I say slap in a jokey mockney way rather then as a direct threat to go down and slap them over it. No actual violence offered FFS!



Yes. It was dismissive  

His reply should have been: I am sorry you were unhappy about the service charge. We'll happily refund it. 

Often amazed at the incompetence of business types.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Oops. My apologies!
> Yes, it is a pretty awful way to treat someone who has just spent a ton of cash in a bar.



At their prices, 30 people would have been at least six tons (two drinks each at £10)!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2014)

leanderman said:


> That really is trying it on. You should not leave customers in the position where they have to ask for the 'service' charge to be taken off.



I'm not convinced a majority of the bar/restaurant using public under 40 actually understand what a service charge is, and what to look for to see whether it's optional or not, and that some establishments play on that pretty hard (usually the ones who don't pass any of it on to the staff). I prefer to tip the staff who serve me, rather than donating to the business-owner's pension fund.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2014)

salem said:


> Presumably it's an 'optional' service charge like you'd get in a restaurant - kind of like a tip you have to opt out of. Except in a huge number of cases the service charge just goes to the companies bottom line.
> 
> Very few people are going to make a scene and ask for it to be removed.



I've done so in restaurants before, but usually after asking the waiting staff whether it gets split between them, or goes in the boss's pocket. If the boss was pocketing it, I tipped the waiting staff and got the service charge struck off.
Mind you, it's not unknown for bosses to take control of the communal tips jar, and allot themselves a percentage out of that, too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2014)

T & P said:


> It has got to be said that hidden/unfair charges have sweet fuck all to do with gentrification. Her hashtag on the matter was as gratitious as completely unrelated to the complain at hand.



I'd say that rather than sweet fuck all, it has a *little* to do with gentrification, due to the fact that when an area has new eateries springing up, customers are *sometimes* less likely to scrutinise the menu, especially if they've lubricated themselves. Restauranteurs know this, and some of them may take advantage of that fact.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2014)

One of the follow up tweets says that someone was charged £10 for a pint of beer. That *surely* can't be possible, can it?


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 14, 2014)

Why not? 

Buy a pint of some high ABV Belgian beer thing brewed by tonsured monks who only speak on the third Sunday of every month on the anniversary of the death of Clovis the First, that's actually meant to be served in a specific half pint glass and not a pint and you're close to that. 

If it's cooking lager, then it's probably two individual bottles of beer as a way of discouraging people to drink beer in a cocktail bar.


----------



## salem (Oct 14, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I've done so in restaurants before, but usually after asking the waiting staff whether it gets split between them, or goes in the boss's pocket. If the boss was pocketing it, I tipped the waiting staff and got the service charge struck off.
> Mind you, it's not unknown for bosses to take control of the communal tips jar, and allot themselves a percentage out of that, too.


Yes but I get the impression from your posts here that you're not the type who is afraid to kick up a fuss : D

I agree though, I try to do the swapping service charge for cash tip too.

Saying that my mate who has served a lifetime in hospitality has so many tales to tell. He lost his job in one place because he told a customer about the places new policy of taking the service charge. They then expected him to hand in cash tips too. Another place he worked (a big place in central London) spent the whole Christmas period dangling the service charge carrot in front of the staff as they were solidly booked. In January when it was time to divvy up the service charge some convoluted system was introduced which basically left everyone getting a fraction of what they were expecting. This was a huge place that wasn't cheap and did food too so we're talking thousands - probably tens of thousands of pounds.

They lost some staff over it which was quite convenient as it was the quiet January period so they needed less people anyway.

Perhaps an idea for a future feature editor ? The 'service charge' position on Brixton bars and restaurants.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Yeah! That's the real issue here.



Well, it seemed quicker and more on theme than saying 'I think that's really disrespectful of them, not only to fail to apologise but to dismiss the complaint in such a flippant way, implying it's not even worthy of a full sentence.' But now I've had to type that all out anyway.


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2014)

salem said:


> Perhaps an idea for a future feature editor ? The 'service charge' position on Brixton bars and restaurants.


Nice idea, but it will have to be a crowd sourced story because I sure as hell can't afford to go and check them all out myself!


----------



## aussw9 (Oct 14, 2014)

I f'ing hate the *optional* service charge of what seems to be a standard 12.5% being slapped on my bill. Winds me up being told what to tip, more often than not there is no prior warning that this is the case.

Why or how did this become the norm?


----------



## leanderman (Oct 14, 2014)

It's especially annoying in the case of drinks - especially if little or no service was involved.


----------



## Mr Retro (Oct 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Nice idea, but it will have to be a crowd sourced story because I sure as hell can't afford to go and check them all out myself!


Let me be first to chip in: there is no service charge in The Canterbury


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Let me be first to chip in: there is no service charge in The Canterbury


I can add the Albert, Dogstar, Windmill, Trinity and Duke of Edinburgh to that list.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 16, 2014)

So it seems that the whole issue has been rectified to the satisfaction of Brixton Mum and the person whose party it was:


----------



## teuchter (Oct 24, 2014)

They are handing out flyers at Loughborough Junction train station at the moment.

"New bar? New bar?"


----------



## blameless77 (Oct 26, 2014)

Distinctly unimpressed by cocktails when I went there a couple of weeks ago - and would have been more so if I was paying for them! (Invited by a friend)


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2014)

I'm beginning to feel sorry for the lone bouncer who has to stand outside all night.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 26, 2014)

blameless77 said:


> Distinctly unimpressed by cocktails



Really? Surely, the cocktails are excellent, if nothing else is.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2014)

Hey, you can buy an £8 cocktail there called, 'You Smokey Fuck.'

_Edgy!_


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2014)

Anyone fancy drinking a cocktail through a pair of glasses? Get to the shrub!



_Wacky!
_




Looks like that service charge sting hasn't gone away either:

They're now describing themselves as a "Neighbourhood cocktail & snack bar in Brixton." Not sure what that means, really.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 26, 2014)

editor said:


> Hey, you can buy an £8 cocktail there called, 'You Smokey Fuck.'
> 
> _Edgy!_


I take it you wont be having a "smokey fuck" any time soon.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 26, 2014)

editor said:


> Hey, you can buy an £8 cocktail there called, 'You Smokey Fuck.'
> 
> _Edgy!_



Exactly as I said: the cocktails are good, if nothing else is.


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## CH1 (Oct 26, 2014)

Nothing at all going on there tonight - or at Craft Beer. Maybe my application to the Lords Day Observance Society may be premature.


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## blameless77 (Oct 30, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Exactly as I said: the cocktails are good, if nothing else is.



I don't agree - but hey, having different opinions is all part of life's rich tapestry.


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## editor (Oct 30, 2014)

They're now suddenly started offering 10% discount to locals with proof of a SW9 address. 

Make it 30% and I may be able to afford a (brief) night there.


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## leanderman (Oct 30, 2014)

editor said:


> They're now suddenly started offering 10% discount to locals with proof of a SW9 address.
> 
> Make it 30% and I may be able to afford a (brief) night there.



What about SW2!!!


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## editor (Oct 30, 2014)

leanderman said:


> What about SW2!!!


Fk U SW2.


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## T & P (Oct 30, 2014)

SE24ers need love (and cocktails) too.


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## editor (Oct 30, 2014)

SW9 is mighty fine. SE24 is _such_ a bore.


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## editor (Oct 30, 2014)

T & P said:


> SE24ers need love (and cocktails) too.


Please take them. Have the bar.


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## T & P (Oct 30, 2014)

I don't know if SE24 is big enough for this lot _and_ Off the Cuff...


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## editor (Oct 30, 2014)

T & P said:


> I don't know if SE24 is big enough for this lot _and_ Off the Cuff...


Hats vs cocktails. Could get messy. And if the blindfolded clubbers are bussed in as well it'll be _chaos_, I tell you.


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## snowy_again (Oct 30, 2014)

T & P said:


> I don't know if SE24 is big enough for this lot _and_ Off the Cuff...



It had a cocktail bar opposite where OTC is now, until they continually broke their booze and ents licence.


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## teuchter (Oct 30, 2014)

T & P said:


> I don't know if SE24 is big enough for this lot _and_ Off the Cuff...



And this, although I'm not sure if it is on the SE24 or SE5 side of the border.

I am also confused about what ULUPICA is.


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## brixtonblade (Oct 30, 2014)

It's the cafe in the old Coast Bar. 

Fuck knows what that nights all about though


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## T & P (Oct 30, 2014)

£2 entry fee seems weirdly low. For events that are not free you'd rarely see anything less than a fiver being asked for admission, in London at least. Not that I'm complaining about low admission prices. Perhaps it's a licensing requirement and it's being forced upon the organisers?


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## editor (Oct 31, 2014)

T & P said:


> £2 entry fee seems weirdly low. For events that are not free you'd rarely see anything less than a fiver being asked for admission, in London at least. Not that I'm complaining about low admission prices. Perhaps it's a licensing requirement and it's being forced upon the organisers?


It's by some of the folks involved in LJAG. And you won't hear me complain about a £2 entry fee. It's certainly cheaper than an evening in the company of "two well-loved drinks impresarios" offering a "drinks program."


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## gabi (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm in brixton for a week in december. I've already been warned its become hideously white. That true?


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## editor (Oct 31, 2014)

gabi said:


> I'm in brixton for a week in december. I've already been warned its become hideously white. That true?


Oh you'll find out soon enough!


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