# #DAYX2 - Next National Student Day of Action this Tuesday (30.11.10)



## where to (Nov 24, 2010)

*#DAYX2 -  CALLED BY NCACF*

NCACF Press Release:
http://anticuts.com/2010/11/23/next-day-of-action-30-november/

National Facebook Page:
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=143365209046082

Protest details will be published here:
http://anticuts.org.uk/?page_id=1258

Follow on twitter at #dayx2


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 25, 2010)

I suppose it would be fair to ask, not doubt just like the old bill, who exactly the national campaign against fees and cuts are?

But still, #dayx2 it is


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 25, 2010)

Divisive Cotton said:


> I suppose it would be fair to ask, not doubt just like the old bill, who exactly the national campaign against fees and cuts are?
> 
> But still, #dayx2 it is



I can answer my own question here:



> What is the National Campaign Against Fees and Cuts?
> 
> The National Campaign against Fees and Cuts is a group of activists from universities, colleges and schools across the country that co-ordinate action against tuition fees and education funding cuts. Students were brought together by a realisation of the extent of the attacks on education and what this will mean to our and future students education quality and prospects.
> 
> ...


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2010)

Scanned some of their material, looks pretty solid - esp. with regards to working with local Trade Unions and single interest action groups. Good approach.


----------



## where to (Nov 25, 2010)

In 24 hours the Facebook page already has more than half the number of attendees as Wednesdays had after two weeks buildup...


----------



## where to (Nov 26, 2010)

NOTTINGHAM:


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 26, 2010)

go studes!


----------



## where to (Nov 28, 2010)

.


----------



## free spirit (Nov 28, 2010)

don't suppose anyone fancies posting up the basics from those facebook pages for the non-facebookers?

btw IMO total reliance on facebook for organising these protests would be a big mistake, as it gives the government a relatively simple route to shut down the communications of the campaign as it's all centralised in a format they can easily threaten with eg incitement to riot legal actions and get shut down if things do start to kick off. Not to mention making it a piece of piss for the police and tabloids to match up photos from the demo with your actual identities.

hopefully someone (other than the police) will at least be collecting copies of the email addresses from people signing up on facebook so that email lists can be used as an alternative communications route if the facebook route get's shut down / censored.


----------



## Nylock (Nov 28, 2010)

FFS whatever you do, take some really warm clothes and thermos' etc. The weather for tuesday looks to be a real stinker... (Not quite on topic i know but i wouldn't put it past the cops to kettle demonstrators in a snowstorm)...

Just a thought... Good luck


----------



## BigTom (Nov 28, 2010)

free spirit said:


> don't suppose anyone fancies posting up the basics from those facebook pages for the non-facebookers?


 
Birmingham meet 12.30 in front of the Bullring by waterstones. Interestingly I don't recognise the name of the person who set up the event from the university of Birmingham people so this might have come from somewhere else though the uni group has changed it's name so it's for all of Birmingham not just the uni of Birmingham which suggests links have been made after day x which is great. 

Wolverhampton meets outside the wulfrun at 1.

Agree about an over reliance on fb btw. Uni of Birmingham have a phone tree setup so they txt everyone to alert to actions.


----------



## where to (Nov 28, 2010)

BigTom said:


> Agree about an over reliance on fb btw. Uni of Birmingham have a phone tree setup so they txt everyone to alert to actions.


 
have to say, this is an interesting tactic and perfect for small pickets of Tory visitors etc, called within an hour or two.  But is it a coincidence that the UK's second city had very small numbers last week when this is their organising method?  The text tree assumes people filter info through for starters.  

Best methods for getting big numbers out quickly in my view are chalk, posters in strategic locations (all places of education), Facebook with maximum invites circulated, a viral text (not sure this has been achieved yet but this is the perfect occasion for it, and ironically the Birmingham lot are in the best position to start one).


----------



## treelover (Nov 28, 2010)

Aaron Porter issues support for occupations

http://anticuts.com/2010/11/28/aaron-porter-supports-occupations/


----------



## killer b (Nov 28, 2010)

bit late now he's a fucking irrelevant joke isn't it?


----------



## smokedout (Nov 28, 2010)

look what's happening on the South Bank on Tuesday

http://www.bigsocietyconference.co.uk


----------



## OneStrike (Nov 28, 2010)

What a useless prick Porter has been.  

I expect some innovative actions on Tuesday aside from the general protests, go Studes!


----------



## emanymton (Nov 28, 2010)

where to said:


> 35+ protests already called for Tuesday...
> 
> *Morecombe*
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=135031999884153


Morecombe WTF


----------



## shaman75 (Nov 28, 2010)

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/468971.html


----------



## BigTom (Nov 28, 2010)

where to said:


> have to say, this is an interesting tactic and perfect for small pickets of Tory visitors etc, called within an hour or two.  But is it a coincidence that the UK's second city had very small numbers last week when this is their organising method?  The text tree assumes people filter info through for starters.
> 
> Best methods for getting big numbers out quickly in my view are chalk, posters in strategic locations (all places of education), Facebook with maximum invites circulated, a viral text (not sure this has been achieved yet but this is the perfect occasion for it, and ironically the Birmingham lot are in the best position to start one).


 
yeah, birmingham in general is very disorganised at the moment.. unfortunately, they can't place posters around the university because the guild of students do not support them, preferring to be in talks to find compromises with the university, so any posters that get put up, get taken down (this isn't going to stop them from placing up new posters every day obviously).  chalk gets washed off quickly as they have been doing chalk murals ahead of the demo's on the 24th on campus.
There are now links being made with the other universities though, which is encouraging.
but yeah, the text tree is suitable for a particular purpose - and that purpose is not pulling people in, facebook, twitter and visible actions are good for that, along with leafletting and postering where ever you can.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Nov 28, 2010)

there is also a protest by Women against the cuts planned for tuesday

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/468688.html


----------



## Santino (Nov 28, 2010)

Does anyone know if the ULU Senate agreed any action today?


----------



## where to (Nov 28, 2010)

check the london event FB.  meet noon at trafalgar sq still the plan - with reaching parliament sq the desired outcome.


----------



## treelover (Nov 29, 2010)

'CARNIVAL AGAINST THE CUTS

Tuesday 30 November
3 pm, Nye Bevan Statue, Queen Street (opp. Castle)'

I imagine Nye if he is looking down will be quite proud and pleased about that.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 29, 2010)

where to said:


> check the london event FB.  meet noon at trafalgar sq still the plan - with reaching parliament sq the desired outcome.


 


> AFTER SEVERAL HOURS OF DISCUSSION LED BY CLARE SOLOMON AND MEMBERS OF THE N.C.A.F.C AS WELL AS STUDENTS REPRESENTING UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES LONDON-WIDE, THE ROUTE HAS BEEN DECIDED.
> 
> STUDENTS PLAN TO MEET IN TRAFALGAR SQUARE AND MARCH ONTO PARLIAMENT SQUARE JUST LIKE WE DID ON WEDNESDAY.
> 
> HOWEVER DUE TO FACTORS CONCERNING POLICING AN AL...TERNATE ROUTE HAS BEEN COORDINATED IN THE EVENT THE PROPOSED MARCH DOES NOT GO SUCCESSFULLY. FOR OBVIOUS REASONS THIS WILL ONLY BE RELEASED TO PROTESTERS ON THE DAY OF THE PROTEST ITSELF (TUESDAY).



madness


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Nov 29, 2010)

I like the way that the students are not just relying on one demonstration of their anger but just keep on having a go. I hope that those of us who are not students can help to reinforce their support of those affected by the other cuts. It is time for united action across society against the powerful who have hi-jacked our so called "democracy". A cabinet of millionaires is not the voice of the people.


----------



## where to (Nov 29, 2010)

smokedout said:


> madness


 
how so, what else could they do/ say?

not easy imo.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 29, 2010)

where to said:


> how so, what else could they do/ say?
> 
> not easy imo.


 
well you dont have to tell them where youre going for a start, and whats so fucking special about parliament square anyway

but more importantly, they say they are going to vary the route if they have to but when, how will they know, whitehall is one big long kettle, theyll be waiting at the end and can form a line behind and trap everyone again anytime they want

fucking stupid imo and got clare soloman written all over it


----------



## where to (Nov 29, 2010)

fair do's.  still, its not an easy one.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 29, 2010)

comments disagreeing with the route already being deleted from the facebook page

fucking trots


----------



## smmudge (Nov 29, 2010)

Heh the leeds one is quite funny.

Went to the occupied space yesterday at the uni. Central organisation is shaky to say the least, but that's a good thing IMO. Lots of presence from revolutionary socialists like SEP, but there are so many disparate groups there too, and most students wanted to make it clear that it was possible to fight this without bringing in the hardcore ideologies. People can organise themselves (the talk from the local high school kids was pretty inspiring actually, had to stop myself from getting all emotional!), it's a good place for people to get support without being told what to do.

Plans for the walkout on tuesday are pretty ambiguous, groups are just going to do what they want (good). Can't think what the police are making of it!!


----------



## where to (Nov 29, 2010)

*Birmingham*

Gather at The Bullring, in front of Waterstones, Birmingham city centre from 12.30pm

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=164315326939499

*Bournemouth*

Walkout at 12noon and gather at BU and AUCB campus (Square at front of the atrium)

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=110790588990747

*Bradford*

12.30pm Centenary Square, Bradford

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=176305019062028&index=1

*Brighton*

13.30pm Meet at Start at Old Steine, Victoria Gardens before heading along North Street and up past Churchill Square all the way to Hove Town Hall

Main Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=126255910768726

Dorothy Stringer High School: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=168191166546334

*Bristol*

11am Meet at College Green, Bristol

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=109768665758888

*Bromsgrove*

11am Assemble Bromsgrove High Street - for all Bromsgrove students

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=105110529562133

*Cambridge*

Walkout and gather at Kings College at 12noon.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=143454299038112

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=144976088887332

*Canterbury*

12noon Assemble at Cafe Rouge, Clocktower, Canterbury High Street.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=131146830274750

*Cardiff*

CARNIVAL AGAINST THE CUTS

2pm Cardiff Universtiy students and all who wish, Assemble 2 pm, outside the Student Union, Park Place to march to Carnival against the Cuts

3 pm  Gather at Nye Bevan Statue, Queen Street (opp. Castle) for Carnival against the Cuts

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/468873.html

*Colchester*

Colchester - gather outside the Sixth Form College at 11am

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=134732156582537

*Dorchester*

Meet outside the front gates (Queen's Ave.) at 3.30pm. We will then preceed to march into Dorchester.  Bring banners and chants.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=144080475642850

*Dundee*

11am Assember outside the Main Library at Dundee University

11.30am March to the City Square

12noon Rally at City Square

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=166490033391022

*Edinburgh*

Meet at Bristo Square at 11:30, then march to Holyrood and stage a rally outside parliament.

http://edinunianticuts.wordpress.com/second-press-release/

*Exeter*

Gather at Exeter College, Under the horse and rider statue from 11am

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=157125510998195

*Harrogate*

Meet at the Cenotaph for 10.30am.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169712969715997

*Huddersfield*

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=121271867936607

*Lancaster*

Gather from 11am at Dalton Sq/ Lancaster

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11847616

*Leeds*

General: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=167108026656320

Colleges:  http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=143365209046082#!/event.php?eid=156282571082392

*Leicester - Oadby*

4pm At The Parade (Oadby’s highstreet)

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=113146498751467

*Liverpool*

12noon Meet outside Liverpool Guild of Students

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=172586789426087

*London*

Gather at Trafalgar Sq from 12noon.

MORE DETAILS TO COME.

In the meantime join the main facebook page:  http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=167108026656320

QMUL:  http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=134638753257704

*Manchester*

8am Picket lines at schools across Greater Manchester

9am Picket lines at universities across Greater Manchester

12noon Walkouts across Greater Manchester

1pm Gather and assemble at Cathedral Gardens, Central Manchester

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=161896710519069

*Morecombe*

Gather from 11am at Dalton Sq/ Lancaster

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=135031999884153

*Newcastle*

Meet at Monument for 12noon.

General:  http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=120800154651273

Newcastle College:  http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=151382691573949

Newcastle - Heaton Manor:  http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=170597722960773

*Newport*

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=114797448585975

*Nottingham*

Main Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=144577568927052

Nottingham Trent Uni Facebook:  http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=145175085531903

Website:  http://nsafc.wordpress.com/

*Plymouth*

Assemble at 13:00 outside Plymouth University Library. Further info set be announced on Monday.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=169534169734184&ref=mf

*Reading*

11am Assemble in front of Palmer Building, Reading University.  Check facebook link for more details.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=166822043357655&ref=mf

*Scunthorpe - John Leggott College*

8:50 - ATTEND COLLEGE LIKE NORMAL.

10:30 - WALK OUT OF COLLEGE AT 10:30. MEET AT THE MAIN FRONT GATES.

10:45 - GROUP PROCEEDS TO THE GREEN INFRONT OF THE COLLEGE. PROTESTS WILL BE HELD THERE FOR AS LONG AS WANTED OR UNTIL 4:00PM

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=173702212659851

*Sheffield*

12.00am  Assemble at Sheffield University students union campus on Western Bank

"We are again rallying at Sheffield University students union campus on Western Bank at 12.00 and from here we will march to Clegg's office.
For workers coming after work meet us 5.30pm at Clegg's office!"

March route: http://tinyurl.com/37wxhdr

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=163292810374489

*Southampton*

Meeting will be Shirley Precinct for Oasis, Redbridge, Regents Park Bellemoore and Tauntons College for 12:30pm.

We then will be marching through Shirley High Street to Southampton Guildhall where we will all meet up with other schools and colleges in Southampton from 1:00pm onwards.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=166259280080304&index=1
*
Stafford*

1pm Meet in Market Square before marching to the Conservative Association on Castle Street, via Stafford College. And return down the high street via the (Tory) council buildings to market square!

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=135038099885214

*St Andrews*

Come to show your your support for the anti-cuts campaign in St Andrews. We will meet at the library at 12pm on Tuesday the 30th of November. There we'll have a General Assembly to gather together ideas about how to go forward with challenging our Management over their cuts to our education. In the event of bad weather, gather there anyway-- there'll be a warm place to go to.

There will also be a open meeting to talk things over at 47 Watson Ave, on Monday 29th at 20:30.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=134965506557495
*
Sunderland*

Sunderland College to walkout at 11am.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=168897766466341

*Swindon*

11am Walkouts begin including Swindon New College, short protests outside before marching to Local Government Civic Offices

1pm All students and supporters to assemble at Local Government Civic Offices, Swindon.  Bring supplies: food, water, warm clothes, banners, ect

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=105052109568220

*Swansea*

Gower College Swansea - Gorseinon Campus

*MEET AT 11AM BY THE COURTYARD NEAR THE LOWER COMMON ROOM

If you are from the Ty-Coch campus and wish to join our protest, you could form a group/event then we can plan a bus to get you up to Gorseinon.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=178312282179844

*Taunton*

Meet outside County Hall at 12noon.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=134763923244350

*Tavistock*

Gather at the front of Tavistock college at 10am (by where the buses drop people off) with signs, posters and banners and then walk along Plymouth road, before protesting in the Square for a couple of hours about the rise in tuition fees.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=170298069658403

*Wolverhampton*

Meet outside the Wulfruna Stree Entrance CIty Campus, 1pm

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=166724146701032

*Worcester*

11am Assemble outside County Hall, Spetchley Road, Worcester.  Students from Worcester Sixth Form, Worcester College of Technology, University of Worcester and other local Worcestershire sixth forms urged to attend for a PEACEFUL protest.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=134445949943032

*York*

3pm University of York assemble at “Vanbrugh Paradise” (by Vanbrugh Cashpoint) leaving 3.20pm sharp!

3.25pm All Saints RC lLeaving for Parliament St at 3.25pm prompt

3.45pm York St John leaving Fountains Learning Centre entrance at 3.45pm prompt

4pm University, college and school students from across York meeting at The Fountain, Parliament St, York.

York College website:  http://www.yorkcollegefightback.co.uk/

Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=135122163209314

_____________________________

*LESS THAN 36 HRS TO GO DISTRIBUTE LIST FAR AND WIDE*


----------



## where to (Nov 29, 2010)

Two new days of action called for the 9th and the 11th.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/44266236/...er-Second-Day-of-Action-Against-Fees-and-Cuts


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 29, 2010)

Apparently something planned for Preston, 12.30 at the Flag Market.


----------



## shaman75 (Nov 29, 2010)

> More than 100 Liberal Democrat parliamentary candidates have called on leader Nick Clegg to oppose government plans to raise tuition fees in England.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11860155


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

I think the experience of maybe two thousand people who successfully broke free from the police kettle will be pivotal for the future demo's.


----------



## plurker (Nov 29, 2010)

Lovely article on how to break a kettle, with nice diagram  on indymedia http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/468971.html


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 29, 2010)

plurker said:


> Lovely article on how to break a kettle, with nice diagram  on indymedia http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/468971.html



there were a couple of times that the kettle was just about breeched at whitehall (early on before it became re-enforced), I was watching it on the BBC news channel (it was about 3am here, i'm a few miles away!), but there was a couple of times the dedicated bunch were only yards from a weak point they could utilised - with the ability to stream news on to phones/devices, the BBC could prove to be very useful ;o)


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

This footage shows the protesters sweeping aside the lines of riot police with sheer weight of numbers. A brilliant example for us all.


----------



## shaman75 (Nov 29, 2010)




----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2010)

TopCat said:


> This footage shows the protesters sweeping aside the lines of riot police with sheer weight of numbers. A brilliant example for us all.



 yeh. but then what? while it's always good to see people escaping from a kettle, it's better for people to avoid the entire kettle experience. it comes down to being spread over a wide area, staying mobile, seizing and retaining the initiative - the people who broke out seem, understandably, to want to put some distance between themselves and the cops.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. but then what? while it's always good to see people escaping from a kettle, it's better for people to avoid the entire kettle experience. it comes down to being spread over a wide area, staying mobile, seizing and retaining the initiative - the people who broke out seem, understandably, to want to put some distance between themselves and the cops.


 
Stay out for sure if you can. It can be hard though to do so. I'm quite tall and I did not see the kettle being formed on that day. I think the keep mobile method worked very well a couple of years ago on that big anti arms factory event in Brighton.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 29, 2010)

@PM, I think those ones in the YT clip just found themselves caught in another kettle.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Stay out for sure if you can. It can be hard though to do so. I'm quite tall and I did not see the kettle being formed on that day. I think the keep mobile method worked very well a couple of years ago on that big anti arms factory event in Brighton.


 
the problem isn't being mobile, i think, it's whitehall. the number of times the police tried to kettle people there last week was absurd. a better idea would be to go down alternative routes, through st james park and down the embankment. if you go through the park towards parliament (through the park, not simply down past horse guards) you'll already have outflanked the police on victoria street and it's a clear run past horseferry road to millbank.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> the problem isn't being mobile, i think, it's whitehall. the number of times the police tried to kettle people there last week was absurd. a better idea would be to go down alternative routes, through st james park and down the embankment. if you go through the park towards parliament (through the park, not simply down past horse guards) you'll already have outflanked the police on victoria street and it's a clear run past horseferry road to millbank.


 
Yes you are absolutely right. I gather the "march" for tomorrow is heading down Whitehall again?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Yes you are absolutely right. I gather the "march" for tomorrow is heading down Whitehall again?


 
yes.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> yes.


 
What fucker has organised that route?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2010)

TopCat said:


> What fucker has organised that route?


 
clare solomon out of 'counterfire' and president of the university of london union


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> clare solomon out of 'counterfire' and president of the university of london union


 
Thick or police patsy?


----------



## smokedout (Nov 29, 2010)

in fairness there is talk of an alternative route, but only if the demonstration is stopped, by which time they'll be in a kettle


----------



## ska invita (Nov 29, 2010)

has http://www.anticuts.org/ gone down?? hopefully temporary thing

edit: is this the same thing: http://anticuts.com/ ? looks different to what was on http://www.anticuts.org/


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

Three routes would be best. 1 through the mall and park. 2 Down embankment. 3, comprising of pacifists to go down Whitehall and get battered.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 29, 2010)

ska invita said:


> has http://www.anticuts.org/ gone down?? hopefully temporary thing
> 
> edit: is this the same thing: http://anticuts.com/ ? looks different to what was on http://www.anticuts.org/


 
i think you want this: http://anticuts.org.uk/


----------



## ska invita (Nov 29, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> i think you want this: http://anticuts.org.uk/


 
yep thanks very much ta


----------



## where to (Nov 29, 2010)

.


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 29, 2010)

Forecasted snow Tuesday in London if you can't break the poilce line you can at least have a snow ball fight.


----------



## shaman75 (Nov 29, 2010)

I'm of the opinion that the beeb are just gonna keep forecasting snow in london until it either happens or it starts raining.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 29, 2010)

lopsidedbunny said:


> Forecasted snow Tuesday in London if you can't break the poilce line you can at least have a snow ball fight.


 
This might make things very interesting indeed. 

Snow equalling reduced visability, cover for throwing stuff, slippy pavements and roads.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 29, 2010)

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=180031418674755&index=1


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Clegg continues to redefine the word 'fair' with more spin http://bbc.in/fPE1qG 
Study says otherwise http://gu.com/p/2yec4/tf


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

can people post up numbers attending protests during the course of the day pls with a source if possible.  this would be v. helpful.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Stay out for sure if you can. It can be hard though to do so. I'm quite tall and I did not see the kettle being formed on that day. I think the keep mobile method worked very well a couple of years ago on that big anti arms factory event in Brighton.


 
This is true but remember splitting the mob too much will result in losing some....'momentum'.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

This time Bath got it's act together:  http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/Sc...e-protest/article-2951426-detail/article.html  I'm gonna pop by later 

I suspect it's mainly schoolkids/FE students, not HE students.


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 30, 2010)

I hear that whitehall area the roads will be closed off. That's all the info I have.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Good luck to all out today. Be careful, but _be angry._


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

what a day to be snowed in and "working from home"


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

From the Guardian:



> 10.56am:
> 
> Shiv Malik reports from Trafalgar Square – where he "can't see any protesters" at the moment. (It is early of course. And snowing persistently, if not heavily).
> 
> ...



This is completely out of order. It seems they're planning to abuse the right of students to freely protest before they've even started to arrive... and on a day with weather like this as well. Utterly dispicable.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

It's - as Dan U said on the other thread - a pre-emptive tactic to stop people turning out, get them talking about the potential kettle and ask if it's worth it. Of course, it may well lead to people fanning out over a wider area in smaller groups rather than just not bothering...


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 30, 2010)

Has it kicked off yet?  Is there another thread?


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

RT @OccupiedLeeds: REPORTS IN: POLICE ARE KETTLING STUDENT PROTESTERS ONE ALREADY ARRESED #DEMO2010 #LEEDSMARCH #dayx2

...

http://twitpic.com/3bl4uw - Police controlling front of march. Seem panicky *#demo2010* #leedsmarch






..........




Shopkeepers in parl sq say police told them students will be kept there until 6pm.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

not bad crowds already in london and thats before noon meeting time


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm going to wander into town in a bit and see if the students have managed to arrange anything in Preston.  It would be a shame to see threats of kettling and bad weather putting people off protesting, and it all petering out with only hardcore non studenty peoples left


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

think something was meant to be happening starting at flag market R.A.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Clegg hiding behind toddlers http://tinyurl.com/clegginhiding


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> think something was meant to be happening starting at flag market R.A.


 
Yep, I did the flyers for them.  I went up to the uni last week and other than a couple of the student left network bods running the petition there was no action whatsoever.  Giving out flyers for our anti cuts group there was actually quite a lot of interest from students (and lecturers/uni staff for that matter) who said 'are you actually going to DO STUFF then?'


----------



## strung out (Nov 30, 2010)

apparently 3,000 protesters in cabot circus in bristol. not got a decent source for that though


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Police have already started to kettle people despite saying the march would be allowed until 2pm.

A huge charge has swept down whitehall and been met by police with sticks- they're now rushing back.

Hundreds of police streamed out of horseguards parade to cut off the kids, they're now running down to parliament square.

@PennyRed


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

strung out said:


> apparently 3,000 protesters in cabot circus in bristol. not got a decent source for that though


 
in this weather too (if true of course) - impressive stuff


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

just announced on news24 that most of the students have left Trafalgar Square already where they had speeches with mcdonnell and the usual suspects supposed to be happening till one


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

Trafalgar Square #JamCam “This camera is currently unavailable for operational reasons”, http://tinyurl.com/26nydx6 #demo2010 #dayx2


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 30, 2010)

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/educ...oil-as-new-student-protest-hits-$21385971.htm



> The Liberal Democrats were in disarray today as students launched another day of action against tuition fees.
> 
> Prominent Liberal Democrat MP Jenny Willott confirmed she would vote against plans to raise tuition fees last night, as Lib Dem officials frantically tried to convince their ministerial team to support the proposals, which are expected to go to a Commons vote before Christmas.
> 
> ...



Lib Dem MP Jenny Willett expected to vote against the fees (sadly, the rumours last night about her resigning turned out to be unfounded).


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

stephj said:


> Lib Dem MP Jenny Willett expected to vote against the fees (sadly, the rumours last night about her resigning turned out to be unfounded).



 - all good though


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Edinburgh


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

_Students arrive in Parliament Square to the Star Wars Theme Tune._


----------



## weepiper (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> Edinburgh


 
that's a damn good turnout considering the weather here today


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

sounds like it's going off in london - twitter reports kettles in st james park, parliament square & whitehall, students fleeing the police & falling over in the snow...


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC 24 reporting that 2,000 students clashing with cops at the QE2 halls opposite parliament.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC just mentioned there are clashes with 1 or 2 thousand protesters??

no pictures


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

No pics as a tactic?

Breaking news, no live coverage. Currently talking about health systems reforms and encouraging individuals to be more healthy.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> No pics as a tactic?


 
no helicopter due to snow ??


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> no helicopter due to snow ??



What bloody snow!?


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

No crews on the ground?


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Oh here we go...

Showing more cops than protesters.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> What bloody snow!?


 
ah.  lots here...


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

ridiculous coverage from BBC


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> ridiculous coverage from BBC


 

Turing it into a non-story. Nicely spun....


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

sky say there's a plod van right back at the exact spot where the other one was.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

sky saying game of cat and mouse in LDN.  students in high spirits.  trying not to be cordoned in.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> sky saying game of cat and mouse in LDN.  students in high spirits.  trying not to be cordoned in.


 

Yep, Beeb reporting the same thing now


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

"organisers seem to have lost control"

"Has kettling failed?"


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Fantastic to see how quickly tactics, lessons and effective organisation can be learnt from peoples own direct experience...


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Fantastic to see how quickly tactics, lessons and effective organisation can be learnt from peoples own direct experience...


 

Aye.

Proof of lively response and spirit. And common sense, clever thinking, understanding. 

No flies on them lot.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Us lot.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

RT @mrmatthewtaylor: Main body of students now streaming down side of Methodist Central Hall. Police loosing #catandmouse #demo2010 #dayx2


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Fantastic to see how quickly tactics, lessons and effective organisation can be learnt from peoples own direct experience...


 
spot on.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

Not as fun on tv without the copter

Go students


----------



## weepiper (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> "organisers seem to have lost control"
> 
> "Has kettling failed?"



wahey


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

who's this fucking lib dem cunt being interviewed on the BBC at the moment?


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Us lot.




But give them credit too. Many of them, it's their first time, learning on the hop, responding in the moment, doing proper reading and research, working it out.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

Tim Farren - tosser


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

brilliant footage on bbc now


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

roaming past scotland yard police nowhere haha


----------



## Mation (Nov 30, 2010)

A march just went past my office in Victoria


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

the filth have really fucked up haven't they? footage on bbc shows them utterly out of control. nice one.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

this is actually pretty good footage, they're all over the place


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

killer b said:


> the filth have really fucked up haven't they? footage on bbc shows them utterly out of control. nice one.


 
And reports of the students chatting, calling out to separate groups, passing along good intelligence and information back and forth about how to avoid the kettle and lines.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

killer b said:


> the filth have really fucked up haven't they? footage on bbc shows them utterly out of control. nice one.


 
Which they're trying to spin as the police are _allowing_ people to move around

Could do with something happening to draw them all to one place...


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

to prevent ugly scenes when fast moving protestors clash with police. Yeah, right.


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Could do with something happening to draw them all to one place...


 
just thinking that. currently the purpose of the protest seems to be 'avoiding coppers'...

kings college & nottingham uni now occupied.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

kids lockings arms, storming through the streets.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Couple of obvious plainclothes trying to fit in at the front of that one they just showed - _look at their boots_..


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

They seem to be intent on reaching Parliament. The kettle will trap them there if they make it.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Couple of obvious plainclothes trying to fit in at the front of that one they just showed - _look at their boots_..




They'll try to guide them. Hopefully the students will spot them too.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC reporter saying he was talking to masked students that wanted to fight the police.

strangely they appear not to have any footage of this.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Nov 30, 2010)

Ha that footage was hilarious, loads of kids running rings around the old bill.  The police look pretty confused really lol gwan students


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Fantastic to see how quickly tactics, lessons and effective organisation can be learnt from peoples own direct experience...


 
BBC reporting that loads of kids had come masked and scarved up with the stated intention of fighting the police today. Brilliant! I think I will have to close my depot soon so i can go and join in. No helicopters either and cctv will be useless.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

whitehall, trafalgar and dayx2 all trending on twitter ...


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

RT @nmec: A couple of hundred students in Parliament Sq. Heading towards Dept. of Business & Skills #dayx2


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

This is not the best time to ask how I do this twitter thing then?


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> This is not the best time to ask how I do this twitter thing then?


 
keep refreshing this link:

http://twitter.com/#search?q=dayx2


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> BBC reporting that loads of kids had come masked and scarved up with the stated intention of fighting the police today. Brilliant! I think I will have to close my depot soon so i can go and join in. No helicopters either and cctv will be useless.



Of course the key to winning the fees protest is fighting with the Police


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

sky news guy on the ground  not a complete cunt shock.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Nov 30, 2010)

Someone HAS to go down there with a sound system playing the Benny Hill theme music


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

DarkesTAngeL31  RT @PasiAhonen: Coppers chasing students on horseback in Bristol. #dayx2  #demo2010

da di, di, diddle eee, da di di diddle eee


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

chris_mann1981  RT @TomWills: Running away from police suggests students DON'T want to fight them. BBC reporter claims the opposite. #DayX2  #badjournalism

fair point


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

MattB_UK It is funny that on the day when the police have "lost control" of the protest, there is no rioting or violence... #dayx2 #demo2010


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 30, 2010)

My daughters boyfriend texts that he is on a quite lively demo in leeds


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Someone HAS to go down there with a sound system playing the Benny Hill theme music


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

burgerchrist  RT @edactivistnet: Hundreds of students in Sheffield are marching to deputy prime minister – and local MP – Nick Clegg's office #demo2010  #dayx2


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

The police will also be better prepared though, and the cold will keep many people away. This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..


 
fuck off with your shitty toxic libdem spin.  There's loads going on, tens of thousands of people, all over the county.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

A mate of mine from oxford sos just text me that students at cheney have been locked in to prevent them walking out.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

YoungGreenParty  RT @edactivistnet: Liverpool students have occupied the roof of the uni dropping banners #demo2010  #dayx2


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

They've just shut down regent street


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The police will also be better prepared though, and the cold will keep many people away. This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..


 
fuck you.

twitter reports of students 'closing down' picadilly - anyone able to expand?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The police will also be better prepared though, and the cold will keep many people away. This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..


 
Wishful thinking.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

killer b said:


> fuck you.
> 
> twitter reports of students 'closing down' picadilly - anyone able to expand?


 
...and "thousands on the Strand"....?


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Police attempted to kettle them in Piccadilly.  Failed.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

More on way to victoria - they're everywhere.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

Twiiter_normal   filkaler  1000s of Student protesters on the The strand #demo2010  #dayx2  http://twitpic.com/3blrg8 - up yours moonie - the lib dems are shitting themselves and this is just the students


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 30, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> Police attempted to kettle them in Piccadilly.  *Failed*.


 
Good


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Poor poor plod... It's like herding cats


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The police will also be better prepared though, and the cold will keep many people away. This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..



What about all the actions elsewhere

The rolling news is only not on this cos of the lack of helicopters

You are a complete cock.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> they're everywhere.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

DarkesTAngeL31  RT @HuddsAnarchists: Bradford protest against cuts and fees starts at 3pm in Centenary Sq. Do your best to get there! #demo2010  #dayx2


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The police will also be better prepared though, and the cold will keep many people away. This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..


 
piss off you wet fuck.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

2MILLIONFOLLOWS  @marc_vallee  ATTN STUDENTS - Important video announcement from 'V' #demo2010  #dayx2  #ukcuts www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CZoRpSOm0Y


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> This is not the best time to ask how I do this twitter thing then?


 
just found this from someone who seems to be there

http://twitter.com/#!/PennyRed


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

streets Sky News reporting another police van left in middle of #studentprotests, with complaints of "red rag to a bull" #demo2010 #dayx2 #baitvan2


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

Your fucked moon, people hate your party now.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Follow these for on the ground london reports

http://twitter.com/#!/UCLOccupation
http://twitter.com/#!/PennyRed
http://twitter.com/#!/Fitwatcher


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

ocicat_bengals  RT @nsafc: uni have cut off wifi - please bring us dongles! #uonoccupation  #solidarity  #dayx #dayx2  #UNIty Keep education for all. Help!


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Birmingham students have entered Council House...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

• @mrmatthewtaylor #catandmouse demo now on Piccadilly circus more police now but couple of thousand protesters still in control #demo2010


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 30, 2010)

Can hear a few helicopters in W1T, possibly around Oxford Circus - not sure if they are police or TV


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> Birmingham students have entered Council House...


 
Now we're talking.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> A mate of mine from oxford sos just text me that students at cheney have been locked in to prevent them walking out.


 
Any solidarity welcome cdes.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Can hear a few helicopters in W1T, possibly around Oxford Circus - not sure if they are police or TV


 
They'll be cops. TV will be grounded today, no such restrictions for the OB.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

_gickr   BongoBeardy RT @itvcentral: Students demonstrate outside Birmingham council house #dayx2  http://twitpic.com/3blu08

Birmingham, Liverpool, Bradford etc etc etc - your lot are fecked moonie


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

smokedout said:


> just found this from someone who seems to be there
> 
> http://twitter.com/#!/PennyRed


 
Nice one.

I dont Twitter but can see specific accounts and not the generic thing that was posted earlier

Rolling news is miles behind without a copter.


----------



## BigTom (Nov 30, 2010)

sounds like the plans in birmingham to enter and occupt somewhere in the council house have worked - "scores of protestors got inside the council house before they locked the door" and dozens are outside looking for another way in  

I'll be going down after work to see if I can join them.. hopefully a hi-vis vest and a sense of purpose will be enough to get me inside.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

dennisr said:


> - your lot are fecked moonie


 
yer, and what does that leave us with...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

BigTom said:


> sounds like the plans in birmingham to enter and occupt somewhere in the council house have worked - "scores of protestors got inside the council house before they locked the door" and dozens are outside looking for another way in
> 
> I'll be going down after work to see if I can join them.. hopefully a hi-vis vest and a sense of purpose will be enough to get me inside.


Is there an underground car park connected to the building? How do large deliveries get in? There's always ways - as we found out during the town hall protests during the poll-tax.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Beeb now starting to mention Manchester and B'ham. No crews up there, elsewhere?


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Nov 30, 2010)

There has been a copter whizzing past my work - not surprising as I'm kind of between Sheffield SU and Nick Cleggs constituency office - where I'm reliably informed the students have arrived.

SY police threatening to only allow 100 at a time to protest and no closer than 40yds - not sure how they're going to manage that!

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/BREAKING-Police-ban-to-keep.6644709.jp

ETA - twitpic from the scene
http://instagr.am/p/af_A/


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The police will also be better prepared though, and the cold will keep many people away. This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..


 
Day dreams and wannabes posted as fact don't become facts; the strength of these protests is seen in the confusion and squirming that your parliamentary party is currently exhibiting.

Louis MacNeice


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

even cable can't bring himself to back this now. or he is hedging


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

The bbc are doing sod all footage, sky the same, any live feeds out there?


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Beeb saying that the police "seem to be using different tactics today"


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> The bbc are doing sod all footage, sky the same, any live feeds out there?


 

They're probably following on Twitter. Warmer, innit.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

bbc reporter questioning the fitness of the police


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC now, TC. On the ground footage, not live though i don't think.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> yer, and what does that leave us with...


 
well with 25 university occupations and plenty of rapid learning on the hoof - folk can decide that themselves


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> The bbc are doing sod all footage, sky the same, any live feeds out there?


 
It's hard to keep to the editorial line when broadcasting semi-live footage.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> The bbc are doing sod all footage, sky the same, any live feeds out there?


 
Bits and bobs coming in on BBC, I assume recorded and uploaded after.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

Ha the BBC just showed the police just being to be made to look totally stupid as the students and protesters just run rings around them. Once they are spread out like this it will be nigh impossible to bring it under control again.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

damnedshrubs  Sky news saying 'fitness' of officers being tested by rapidly moving students #dayx2


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

I like this wee tweet (will stop now):  Some reported #DayX2  chants : "We Are Peaceful. What Are U?" "Whose Streets? Our Streets!"


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Ha the BBC just showed the police just being to be made to look totally stupid as the students and protesters just run rings around them. Once they are spread out like this it will be nigh impossible to bring it under control again.


 
They need to make the most of it _right now_.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm enjoying the Penny Red Twitter feed

http://twitter.com/PennyRed#


To the tune of 'coming round the mountain'- 'you can stick your big society up your arse!'

Protesters yell to hurry up: 'run,close the gap!' Two schoolgirls: 'close the pay gap while you're at it!' Amazing

Down oxford st. Shoppers cheering and snapping pictures. Police still seem unable to keep up. No leaders, no plan, a whirlwind of dissent


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC report rumours of tear gas being used.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

I want to go and play!


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> BBC report rumours of tear gas being used.


 
Not surprised by this. What else can they do...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Don't believe that TG stuff for a second.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I want to go and play!


 X2


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> BBC report rumours of tear gas being used.


 
that makes me worry - I know my daughter is there


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I want to go and play!


 
I know!!  Me too  not enough riot porn on the news lol


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Don't believe that TG stuff for a second.


 
They may have squirted a few people in scuffles. Its more photo friendly than whacking kids on the head.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Don't believe that TG stuff for a second.


 
Me neither. The met letting off tear gas in streets full of shoppers, not likely


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Don't believe that TG stuff for a second.


 
It wasn't reported on the news, the news read a statement from the national campaign against fees and cuts stating that they believed there to be rumors that police horses and tear gas had been 'deployed' for possible use...


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

Miss-Shelf said:


> that makes me worry - I know my daughter is there


 
don't you worry - they can't gas thousands of youngsters - odds on they'll be just fine and ll have plenty to chat about upon their return


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> They may have squirted a few people in scuffles. Its more photo friendly than whacking kids on the head.


 
They'll do it if they get an excuse, claim it's that or kettling.


----------



## BigTom (Nov 30, 2010)

oh yeah, @brumbudgetcuts and @stopcutsbrum are the twitter feeds to be following for birmingham stuff, @birminghambudgetcuts seems to be the most active today, @stopcutsbrum is the students, I guess no-one with a smartphone is there today.

BA - yeah, underground car park, there is one, I don't know if it connects into the council house, I imagine it will, I'll certainly have a look at it later.


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 30, 2010)

Brit' police don't have tear gas, not much in london students protestors there but in small groups moving around town


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Kettled at Buck House.


----------



## gunneradt (Nov 30, 2010)

Water, dogs, horses, truncheons, the list is endless!



story said:


> Not surprised by this. What else can they do...


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

Protesters attacking a van that ran over a student, in front of a sky bod talking to the studio on the phone


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> They may have squirted a few people in scuffles. Its more photo friendly than whacking kids on the head.


 
Pepper spray then.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

Fuck off moon, generally


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Protesters attacking a van that ran over a student, in front of a sky bod talking to the studio on the phone


 
Potential mood changer.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

gunneradt said:


> Water, dogs, horses, truncheons, the list is endless!


 


moon23 said:


> Pepper spray then.


 
Same difference, it's all assault on unarmed protestors.


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Fuck off moon, generally


 
I'm not saying pepper spray is good, I got pepper sprayed on a protest and it was fucking awfull. It's not something the police should use at protests.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> Pepper spray then.


 
I take it you view the use of pepper spray as a good thing?


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I take it you view the use of pepper spray as a good thing?


 
No it's awfull, I got pepper sprayed at an anti-war protest down in Brighton.


----------



## Flanflinger (Nov 30, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Protesters attacking a van that ran over a student, in front of a sky bod talking to the studio on the phone


 
Someone didn't learn the green cross code.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

sky news apparently reports police van ran over protester.


----------



## gunneradt (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> Same difference, it's all assault on unarmed protestors.


 
Makes good viewing


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> No it's awfull.


 
I think I would rather be sprayed with watery dog shite than have to tolerate you for much longer.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> I'm not saying pepper spray is good, I got pepper sprayed on a protest and it was fucking awfull. It's not something the police should use at protests.



Were you protesting for the Tories


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> sky news apparently reports police van ran over protester.


 
Are you sure about it being a police van? I was listening to the journo who saw it and he didn't mention it being a police van, just a normal van that escaped down a side street.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

PennyRed twittering from the Strand, Courts of Justice, and now nearing St Paul's.

Heading for the City!


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

The police must be getting tired given the reported pace of the roving demos. Strand to St Pauls in 5 mins anyone?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC just said numbers same as last time (in London)


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

From http://twitter.com/PennyRed#


"Can anyone near a computer tell me if the police are coming to meet us?"


I don't Twitter, can anyone else give her the info she needs?


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

Well don't go to Parliament, BBC guy just reported the massive numbers of cops, horses, vans round that area waiting in case any protestors try to start something there.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

penny red the lib-dem


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> penny red the lib-dem


 
Oh yes?

Well she's on the street.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 30, 2010)

I saw them going up Regent street about 45 minutes.

Followed by around 10 police vans, a couple of them City of London, the rest from the Met.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> Oh yes?
> 
> Well she's on the street.


 
Yes, plenty of content for her column. She's a parasite. Use her stuff though.

edit: OT stuff left now.


----------



## past caring (Nov 30, 2010)

What sort of time have these things been going on til?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 30, 2010)

.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, plenty of content for her column. She's a parasite. Use her stuff though.
> 
> edit: OT stuff left now.


 
Oh she's a hack... hadn't realised  Makes sense now.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

past caring said:


> What sort of time have these things been going on til?


 
After you finish work! Maybe meet for beer after? I am itching to go up and have a bit of fun.


----------



## plurker (Nov 30, 2010)

I left the last one at about 20.30, and there were still a fair number of people kettled until at least 10pm...

hard to tell on today's as, at time of writing, it's free-flowing.


----------



## plurker (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> Oh she's a hack... hadn't realised  Makes sense now.


 
on the payroll of New Statesman


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

From the guardian 

"In terms of the letter of the law, there is a chance that Scotland Yard overstepped the mark today. I've just been in touch with Louise Christian, the human rights lawyer who is bringing a test case against the Met's policy of "kettling" to the European Court of Human Rights. The Law Lords previously ruled in the Met's favour in the Lois Austin case , hence the force's repeated claims that the tactics has been deemed "lawful". But it is not as simple as that, as senior officers need to prove that containing people was "proportionate" to the threat posed by a crowd. The notorious kettling of climate camp activists at last year's G20 protest is currently before a Judicial Review at the High Court over exactly this point. The stakes are high as the Met could lose money - and a lot of it - if it is shown to have arbitrarily imprisoned thousands of people.

If today's reports are true, and the Met tried to kettle students before their march had properly even begun, the commissioner could find himself in the dock yet again. There i evidence to support those reports - lines of police and pre-prepared barriers suggest there was a pen in Whitehall, into which police planned to funnel students.  A kettle needs to be a response to evidence of disorder, rather than an entirely preemptive tactic that suppresses protest before it has begun. "I think what has happened runs contrary to the Law Lords ruling in the Austin case," Christian said. "It makes clear that they need to have an evidence-based approach. If they decide in advance that they are going to do it, then I suggest that would be unlawful.""


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

8000 on the streets in london according to NCACF dunno where they got this from tho, or if the 8000 are one group or not


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

plurker said:


> on the payroll of New Statesman


 

Yeah I see that now, on the sidebar of her Twitter page. 

That's what comes from watching too many different pages and interfaces. Not looking properly, skimming instead of studying.

Lesson learned.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 30, 2010)

I've just been to check out the demo in Brum.  Fairly lively attempt to occupy the town hall going on.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

Shes really young tho - only two years older than me


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

seems to be at least four groups on the streets according to the guardian


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

police kettling 100-200 at trafalgar sq, peaceful group just standing there on statue.  totally unnecessary - probably just want pictures of them "in control".  wanks.

"a standoff" according to bbc.  what a fud


----------



## chilango (Nov 30, 2010)

And in Italy too!
(from the Guardian)





> Lawmakers are voting on a contested reform bill many students and professors say will give the private sector too much involvement in the state university system. They claim funding cuts means faculty positions are going unfilled.
> Similar protests snarled other cities, including Milan, Turin, Naples, Venice, Palermo and Bari. In Genoa, students protested under the slogan "they block our future, we block the cities."
> Police blockades in Rome prevented several lines of marchers from converging on the square outside the Chamber of Deputies and blocked bus and tram routes.
> 
> #Italy #student #protests. Motorway blocked near Bologna. Scuffles in Milan. Occupation of Cathedral in Palermo. Quiet as yet in Rome.



I'll go and have a look see if anything is still ongoing when i finish work.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The police will also be better prepared though, and the cold will keep many people away. This will look increasingly like a minority fringe type protest and less like a mass movement of public opinon..


 
At least, that's what you are fervently hoping.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Pretty good crowd still at Trafalgar Square. "Stand off rather than a kettle" says the Beeb.

Good idea to have a static group of protesters as well as the running groups.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> police kettling 100-200 at trafalgar sq, peaceful group just standing there on statue.  totally unnecessary - probably just want pictures of them "in control".  wanks.
> 
> "a standoff" according to bbc.  what a fud


 


story said:


> Pretty good crowd still at Trafalgar Square. "Stand off rather than a kettle" says the Beeb.
> 
> Good idea to have a static group of protesters as well as the running groups.


 


lol


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> Pretty good crowd still at Trafalgar Square. "Stand off rather than a kettle" says the Beeb.
> 
> Good idea to have a static group of protesters as well as the running groups.


 

tie some of ob down and keep the rest chasing about- sound tactics.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> tie some of ob down and keep the rest chasing about- sound tactics.


 
Just so.

And it's hard to hold a placard and chant if you're running about.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> "a standoff" according to bbc.  what a fud


 
surprise surprise, its that scab cunt who did newround ten yrs ago


----------



## plurker (Nov 30, 2010)

Big LOL at the Met statement:  (via twitter @CO11MetPolice)

_Statement re protests in central London

The Met police worked with organisers in advance to agree a suitable route from Trafalgar Square down to Parliament Square for a peaceful protest.

However, today's march set off at an earlier time than agreed. This meant that the march began without a police escort. The police escort was essential due to gas main works on one side of Whitehall.

As a result, a line of police officers formed a cordon across Whitehall. This line of police officers intended to steer the march to one side of the road and the agreed route. There was never any intention to contain the protesters.

The march then broke into small groups, travelling in different directions.

The march continues peacefully, however, it is causing some disruption for Londoners in the West End, in what are already difficult conditions due to the weather._


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

All going to plan.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

'I am a tiny protesting icicle. An protesticle. Someone behind me just said 'welcome to the new world!''

read that back to yourself penny


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Genuine lol at that


ETA
I actually meant plurker's post, but DotCommunist's post was also rather lol


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> 'I am a tiny protesting icicle. An protesticle. Someone behind me just said 'welcome to the new world!''
> 
> read that back to yourself penny


 
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## weepiper (Nov 30, 2010)

police at the doors of the Scottish Parliament earlier


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> BBC report rumours of tear gas being used.


 
Way fucking stupid if the old bill have used it. It's indiscriminate. They might just as well have neon signs on their helmets saying "we are panicking".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

Miss-Shelf said:


> that makes me worry - I know my daughter is there


 
No need to worry. It's unpleasant enough if you get a face-full that you'll be puking, choking and weeping, but that's about all. It's meant to neutralise/immobilise you, and that's exactly what it does. You just fall to your knees and cough and heave.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Me neither. The met letting off tear gas in streets full of shoppers, not likely


 
Not probable, but possible nonetheless. I can see a panicked Met muckety-muck giving the order (and then blaming someone further down the command chain, obviously).


----------



## rekil (Nov 30, 2010)

chilango said:


> And in Italy too!


Railways blocked in Milan.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Rooftop occupation at Liverpool


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Cambridge.  Wise - effective and warm


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

copliker said:


> Railways blocked in Milan.


 
This is where we have to go eventually.


----------



## The Octagon (Nov 30, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> No need to worry. It's unpleasant enough if you get a face-full that you'll be puking, choking and weeping, but that's about all. It's meant to neutralise/immobilise you, and that's exactly what it does. You just fall to your knees and cough and heave.


 
I know that's meant to be reassuring but lol


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

dennisr said:


> don't you worry - they can't gas thousands of youngsters - odds on they'll be just fine and ll have plenty to chat about upon their return


 
As some of us know from experience, using gas in an urban environment is tricky, and given the prevailing easterly wind, they'd only be able to use it in certain situations. If they deployed it indiscriminately, they'd be as likely to suck the fumes themselves or gas the public.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> No need to worry. It's unpleasant enough if you get a face-full that you'll be puking, choking and weeping, but that's about all. It's meant to neutralise/immobilise you, and that's exactly what it does. You just fall to your knees and cough and heave.


 
Not very reassuring tbh VP


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> This is where we have to go eventually.


 

Agreed. 

But how? When?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

lopsidedbunny said:


> Brit' police don't have tear gas, not much in london students protestors there but in small groups moving around town


 
They don't have stores of it at police stations, IIRC, but they *do* have access to it.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> Agreed.
> 
> But how? When?


 
By local agreement after discussion and then doing it.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

clegg. On phone can't watch. B3ya. Reviewe?


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

> students in Aberdeen have occupied the city's branch of the Conservative Association.


.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

Anyone fancy meeting up later? I will head to Charing Cross and take it from there?


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> .


 
I heard two people talking on the demo i went to the other day - one of them went to the conservative club occasionally here but only for the bingo. apparently nobody discusses politics


----------



## chilango (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> This is where we have to go eventually.


 
This is probably we have to go this evening to get home from work!!

(anybody know which station this is?...I'll investigate but if anyone knows off the top of their head?)


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> This is where we have to go eventually.


 
its a lot easier to get onto tracks on the italian railways cos they're all at platform level


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> 'I am a tiny protesting icicle. An protesticle. Someone behind me just said 'welcome to the new world!''
> 
> read that back to yourself penny


 
Calling herself a bollock like that. Such reflexivity!


----------



## chilango (Nov 30, 2010)

Miss-Shelf said:


> its a lot easier to get onto tracks on the italian railways cos they're all at platform level


 
Not all of them. Many aren't.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

protesticle  I'd never say shit like that. If I do please shoot me


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

chilango said:


> Not all of them. Many aren't.


 
There's loads of ways of doing it. You can get in front of stationary trains or go to the signals with cams that'll trigger a whole line stoppage. There's road bridges, there's motorways, there's a world of possibility out there...


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

CARDIFF DEMO LIVE
http://bambuser.com/channel/hrwaldram/broadcast/1220403


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

The Octagon said:


> I know that's meant to be reassuring but lol


 
What I mean is, as long as you don't claw at your face, it's not too bad. 

Full-fat milk is good for partially-neutralising CS. Just pour it over the areas exposed to the gas. You'll smell like sour milk, but the relief can be immense!


----------



## chilango (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> There's loads of ways of doing it. You can get in front of stationary trains or go to the signals with cams that'll trigger a whole line stoppage. There's road bridges, there's motorways, there's a world of possibility out there...


 
Of course. They managed it. But its' no more easy/difficult here than in the UK is my point.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

chilango said:


> Of course. They managed it. But its' no more easy/difficult here than in the UK is my point.


 
I was clumsily agreeing.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

40 mins ago


----------



## chilango (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> There's loads of ways of doing it. You can get in front of stationary trains or go to the signals with cams that'll trigger a whole line stoppage. There's road bridges, there's motorways, there's a world of possibility out there...


 
 oops dp.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> CARDIFF DEMO LIVE
> http://bambuser.com/channel/hrwaldram/broadcast/1220403


 
cheers Hannah! be up there in a bit


----------



## teuchter (Nov 30, 2010)

I wouldn't suggest to people that they stand in front of stationary trains. That is pretty dangerous if there are trains running on adjacent tracks. Best to do it on level crossings when the gates are up, and which are covered by CCTV or overlooked by a signal box. The signaller will not close the gates and let trains through if they can see that there are people on the level crossing.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 30, 2010)

Police currently milling about outside Michael Sadler building at Leeds Uni which is under occupation by students. Not sure why they are there..


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

"Back in the square, tired and boxed in by police everywhere. Suddenly the samba band startys up! Everyone cheers"

Fucking Samba bands...


----------



## bi0boy (Nov 30, 2010)

Trafalgar Square is always where the police want you to go. It's their preferred protest containment venue.


----------



## chilango (Nov 30, 2010)

Right. I'm off to see if I can find any sign of the Milan protests...


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Trafalgar Square is always where the police want you to go. It's their preferred protest containment venue.


 
Well with night about to close in and viability reduced, all should improve.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

ddraig said:


> cheers Hannah!


 
er............??


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

> Students at Queens University in Belfast, Northern Ireland, are occupying.


.


----------



## Flanflinger (Nov 30, 2010)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Ha that footage was hilarious, loads of kids running rings around the old bill.  The police look pretty confused really lol gwan students



That should frighten the government into changing its mind.


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

Flanflinger said:


> That should frighten the government into changing its mind.


 
Cracks are already showing, you dolt.


----------



## Flanflinger (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> The police must be getting tired given the reported pace of the roving demos. Strand to St Pauls in 5 mins anyone?


 
Don't worry about the coppers. As reported earlier most are on overtime.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Oxford council buildings apparently occupied


----------



## ddraig (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> er............??


 
and you of course! 
Hannah is our Guardian Cardiff reporter and is streaming those things you linked
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cardiff


----------



## Flanflinger (Nov 30, 2010)

creak said:


> Cracks are already showing, you dolt.



Bit cold for mooning.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> Oxford council buildings apparently occupied


 
really?! im here adn ive heard nothing about this


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

The BBC seems to be ignoring the protest.

Well they're covering the students in Italy?!


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 30, 2010)

sad to see a large banner hanging at Leeds Uni proclaiming the occupation is supported by the NUS.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 30, 2010)

Leeds Uni students attempt to take Vice Chancellor's Office.


----------



## belboid (Nov 30, 2010)

King Biscuit Time said:


> There has been a copter whizzing past my work - not surprising as I'm kind of between Sheffield SU and Nick Cleggs constituency office - where I'm reliably informed the students have arrived.
> 
> SY police threatening to only allow 100 at a time to protest and no closer than 40yds - not sure how they're going to manage that!
> 
> ...


 
seems they let more get close than the 40yds, as there were only 250 or so people there.  Which is pretty good considering its a bloody blizard.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

meanwhile some fat tory MP cunt waffles shit about the PR referendum next year on the BBC


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Full-fat milk is good for partially-neutralising CS. Just pour it over the areas exposed to the gas. You'll smell like sour milk, but the relief can be immense!


 
thanks for that, i'll always remember to carry a pint of milk and a sachet of english mustard with me


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

Any update on Trafalgar Square?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> thanks for that, i'll always remember to carry a pint of milk and a sachet of english mustard with me


 
Lemon and a scarf for TG.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

got a bit more info on what happeed in oxford now, apparently students at one particular hall in brookes got locked in so the couldnt go and protest ... not sure what else is happening now tho ...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> meanwhile some fat tory MP cunt waffles shit about the PR referendum next year on the BBC


 
If he mentioned PR he's definitely talking shit, as all that's being offered for referendum is AV, which isn't a form of PR.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> thanks for that, i'll always remember to carry a pint of milk and a sachet of english mustard with me




Full-cream milk, mind, none of that skimmed nonsense!


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> got a bit more info on what happeed in oxford now, apparently students at one particular hall in brookes got locked in so the couldnt go and protest ... not sure what else is happening now tho ...


 
Doesn't sound very legal to me...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Lemon and a scarf for TG.


 
To neutralise the fumes before they get to your lungs, yes. Or vinegar. If you get the gas deposits on your skin, though, full-fat milk is your friend.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Any update on Trafalgar Square?


 
After initially blocking all exits, police have now opened up one exit north to allow protesters to leave from Trafalgar Square.

http://lsjsn.wordpress.com/


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> got a bit more info on what happeed in oxford now, apparently students at one particular hall in brookes got locked in so the couldnt go and protest ... not sure what else is happening now tho ...


 
Oh dear, false imprisonment.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC - they're getting violent. (the students that is).


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Lemon and a scarf for TG.


 
Aye. People pooh pooh it but washing with water does the trick too. Dowse the bandana with water then wrap it around your nose and mouth.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> What I mean is, as long as you don't claw at your face, it's not too bad.
> 
> Full-fat milk is good for partially-neutralising CS. Just pour it over the areas exposed to the gas. You'll smell like sour milk, but the relief can be immense!


 
I found alcohol effective (plenty of it. inside of me.)  this is not a recommendation though kiddywinks - just an old fart reliving past experiences


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> BBC - they're getting violent. (the students that is).



A couple of fireworks and one or two bottles being smashed = BBC 'violence'


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

Flanflinger said:


> Don't worry about the coppers. As reported earlier most are on overtime.


 
thats being cut - we are all in this together


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> BBC - they're getting violent. (the students that is).


 
Is this on news 24?


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

So a cordon around protesters in a contained space, allowing small groups out a few at a time at designated points... is not a kettle.... rr-i-g-h-t....


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Is this on news 24?


 
Reports of skirmishes and struggles at the edges as running groups arrived at Trafalgar Square. Not much else, I don't think.


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 30, 2010)

Police block Whitehall now facing T Square. There was alot of noise around around three but I couldn't see anything as I was in a dam meeting.


----------



## dennisr (Nov 30, 2010)

nino_savatte said:


> A couple of fireworks and one or two bottles being smashed = BBC 'violence'


 
oh, they've noticed the demo now then


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2010)

dennisr said:


> oh, they've noticed the demo now then



Innit?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Is this on news 24?



yeah one of the news reporters just said it, they've been itching to use the word _violence_ all day.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

Watching the snow coming down in London on SkyNews. 

Still not as cold as I had on a riot in Brussels. The police used water canons on us well below freezing. The noxious cordial froze on impact with the cobbled street. Cue lots of anarchists slipping and sliding.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> Reports of skirmishes and struggles at the edges as running groups arrived at Trafalgar Square. Not much else, I don't think.


 
OB probably determined to have a nice detainment and resulting scuffles since they've been denied the pleasure all day.


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 30, 2010)

Please note that Police don't use tear gas in the u.k. as we use Police horses TG and Horses don't mix. We use rubber bullets thou'


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

They appear to be proper kettled in now. I think we need to go and show support from the outside. Leaving now...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> They appear to be proper kettled in now. I think we need to go and show support from the outside. Leaving now...


 
TC is right, any of you in london - leave work now, meet up the road. Don't say fuck all on here. Break 'em out. Turn it against them.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Fuck me if everyone converged aggressively  on there now...


----------



## plurker (Nov 30, 2010)

_@PoliceStateUK:  Kettle in Trafalgar Square now starting to incite some small violence. Wonder how long it will take the Met to build up the pressure inside. _


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 30, 2010)

Reading some of the post would explian the helicopter busying oddly over town the oxford street area etc,


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 30, 2010)

Sky reporting police heavy handedness over arresting one protester contributed to a change of mood.


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Fuck me if everyone converged aggressively  on there now...


 
Why would a massive fight with the police be good?


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

Seems like a lot less media covereage, it's not up on the BBC news website for instance.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11877034


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> Seems like a lot less media covereage, it's not up on the BBC news website for instance.


 
No rough stuff, that's why.


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

creak said:


> No rough stuff, that's why.



The media has a very short attention span as well, currently most of the coverage is on Cable saying the party might abstain on mass.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

reports on twitter of tasers being used in brighton

http://twitter.com/#!/Fitwatcher


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The media has a very short attention span as well, currently most of the coverage is on Cable saying the party might abstain on mass.


 
And not explaining why that'd just hand victory to the Tories.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The media has a very short attention span as well, currently most of the coverage is on Cable saying the party might abstain on mass.


 
That's a non story though, the real story would be if the party were going to vote *against* it on mass.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The media has a very short attention span as well, currently most of the coverage is on Cable saying the party might abstain on mass.


 
he said that before the protest.


----------



## past caring (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> The media has a very short attention span as well, currently most of the coverage is on Cable saying the party might abstain on mass.



It's fucking _en masse_ you fucking plumb. 

Education - it never did me any harm.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> Why would a massive fight with the police be good?


 
1. butchers didn't say that
2. a bit of accountability and solidarity just might help get them out
too much of a jump for your imagination?


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

No rolling news because the helicopters couldn't get up, and also few camera crews or reporters who could keep up with what was going on- there was no central point to report from. I wonder if there's an element of Gove's 'not giving them the oxygen of publicity' as well.


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

past caring said:


> It's fucking _en masse_ you fucking plumb.
> 
> Education - it never did me any harm.


 
Quite correct, no need to be rude.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> To neutralise the fumes before they get to your lungs, yes. Or vinegar. If you get the gas deposits on your skin, though, full-fat milk is your friend.


Strong smell is as important as the acid. It reminds your brain that it needs to breath (is how it was explained to me, anyway).


----------



## past caring (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> Quite correct, no need to be rude.


 
There's every need with you, you tory cunt.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2010)

Just hearing about police aggression in parliament Sq


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

Lib-dem Councillors home attacked by Students

http://www.demotix.com/news/522819/lib-dem-councillors-home-attacked-students

scared yet moonie


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

smokedout said:


> Lib-dem Councillors home attacked by Students
> 
> http://www.demotix.com/news/522819/lib-dem-councillors-home-attacked-students
> 
> scared yet moonie



Fucking brilliant


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Lesson there - free reign. No OB.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2010)

Stunning.


----------



## weepiper (Nov 30, 2010)

crikey. I am enjoying this thread


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm reading every other post to my partner. He's snapped his fingers so much they're sore.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

ymu said:


> I'm reading every other post to my partner. He's snapped his fingers so much they're sore.


 
Is he in a coma?


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

weepiper said:


> crikey. I am enjoying this thread


 
good innit, wish i was there tho


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

quality.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Is he in a coma?


 
Huh?


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Radio Four live reports of skirmishes at Trafalgar Square


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

smokedout said:


> Lib-dem Councillors home attacked by Students
> 
> http://www.demotix.com/news/522819/lib-dem-councillors-home-attacked-students
> 
> scared yet moonie



I think I've just cum.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

nelsons column decorated


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Radio 4:

-pretty choreographed
-snow kept people away
-chaotic, traffic problems
-pushing and shoving, stuck in Trafalgar Square, bottles thrown
-three arrests


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

> DAYX2 SEES FURTHER WAVE OF ANGRY STUDENT PROTESTS
> 
> * TENS OF THOUSANDS JOIN OVER 40+ PROTESTS ALL ACROSS THE UK  http://anticuts.org.uk/?page_id=1258
> 
> ...



not bad for a days work


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> not bad for a few hours work



FYP


----------



## belboid (Nov 30, 2010)

Uni of Sheffield re-occupied as well


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Nov 30, 2010)

weepiper said:


> crikey. I am enjoying this thread


 
The tweets coming through this aftenoon were classic - even the Pythons at their best couldn't have matched it. All that was missing was the Benny Hill soundtrack.

Nationwide protests
+ Central London
+ Lots of kids either bunking off school or having a snow day
+ Protesting against authority
+ Snow & blizzards
+ Sense of "you won't catch us this time"
+ Instinctive sense of how to use social media
+ No leaders...

Who'd be someone trying to herd that lot?!?

[Disclaimer - this post does not condone illegal activities...but today's cat & mouse chases made for cracking reading!]


----------



## Dan U (Nov 30, 2010)

Tesco being attacked in traf sq


----------



## Ground Elder (Nov 30, 2010)

"Students in Falmouth are occupying Tremough campus tonight. If you live nearby come along - the statement from the organiser is 'Occupy Tremough campus tonight 7-730 pm bus depot meeting place, bring sleeping bags, food, clothes, laptops, phones, banners etc, spread the word"


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

Stop the Fees Rise - protest at London Lib Dem conference– 4th December

Protest outside London Lib Dem Conference – Saturday 4th December
Assemble 12noon
Haverstock School, Haverstock Hill, London NW3 2BQ
Nearest tube Chalk Farm

Before the General Election all Lib Dem MPs promised to vote against any attempt to increase tuition fees.

They now plan to break their promise. There is still time to make them keep their promise.

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=148974651817209


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Sky News now - massive riot cop presence outside Tescos


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Tesco being attacked in traf sq


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> Sky News now - massive riot cop presence outside Tescos


 


The donuts and steak slices get sold off for pennies about now


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

I think it's tie for the students to organise something on the weekend so the old crinklies can muck in.


----------



## love detective (Nov 30, 2010)

Went down to TS after work for a bit , these students are fucking amazing - coppers pretty much sealed off all the approach roads to TS with the students in the middle like a huge human pinball bouncing of one police line to another, so much energy, anger, flexibility, quick wittedeness, organisation, and humour

i felt about a hundred years old there!


----------



## smmudge (Nov 30, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I think it's tie for the students to organise something on the weekend so the old crinklies can muck in.


 
Next day of action is on Sunday


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## Prince Rhyus (Nov 30, 2010)

http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2010/11/whats-point-of-rampaging-through-london.html

Must have been following events somewhere else.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

smmudge said:


> Next day of action is on Sunday


 
yes and no.

saturday is ukuncut day of action against philip greens firms, some climate change demo apparently and this lib dem conference

sunday was called as day of action by some university occupations but this wasn't ever fully endorsed by NCACF (the folk who called today and last wednesday).  some protests for Sunday got announced and will go ahead, but when NCACF actually met at the weekend they announced next days of action are the 9th and 11th.  nothing will happen from NCACF apart from some general assembly type stuff on Sunday.

NUS & UCU  are also as of today calling for:



> * Protests at universities across the country on the day prior to the student funding vote in Parliament
> * Mass lobby of MPs on the day itself followed by a rally in Westminster
> * A 'candlelit' vigil during the evening of vote with 9,000 'candles' to represent potential fees



not sure where they got that vigil wank from lol

vote will be mid December its said


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I think it's tie for the students to organise something on the weekend so the old crinklies can muck in.


 
Saturday is national bash a tax-dodger day - everyone invited to pick a Vodafone/Top Shop/Arcadia outlet/Tesco/Tory Minister/other tax dodging cunt and go for it. It's on anticuts.org.uk I think.


----------



## moon23 (Nov 30, 2010)

ymu said:


> Saturday is national bash a tax-dodger day - everyone invited to pick a Vodafone/Top Shop/Arcadia outlet/Tesco/Tory Minister/other tax dodging cunt and go for it. It's on anticuts.org.uk I think.


 
Good idea, tax-dodging is not on.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

call to target phillip green: http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

ymu said:


> Saturday is national bash a tax-dodger day - everyone invited to pick a Vodafone/Top Shop/Arcadia outlet/Tesco/Tory Minister/other tax dodging cunt and go for it. It's on anticuts.org.uk I think.


 
Proper joined-up harmonised approach to protesting.

Make a point, make another point, show how the dots connect.


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

Prince Rhyus said:


> http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2010/11/whats-point-of-rampaging-through-london.html
> 
> Must have been following events somewhere else.


 
I see moon's already made a comment.


----------



## Zabo (Nov 30, 2010)

I've been listening and watching the students for most of the day. They have given me the best laugh for ages. Only the young, fit and healthy could fuck up the police kettling system. One minute they're here, the next they're there. Given how unfit most of the filth are and given the amount of clobber they carry there must have been a few sweats breaking out.

Those kids have done us proud with their quick-wittedness and athleticism.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

Get the students to wear them out in the week, and everyone piles in at the weekends. This needs to be a weekly pattern from now until the government falls.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

"we're not in this to lose"

student on sky news


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 30, 2010)

Just had a text saying a lloyds tsb's been occupied in cardiff.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

Oh yes! Take the banks! 

They're good. They're very, very good.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

ymu said:


> Saturday is national bash a tax-dodger day - everyone invited to pick a Vodafone/Top Shop/Arcadia outlet/Tesco/Tory Minister/other tax dodging cunt and go for it. It's on anticuts.org.uk I think.


 
Our local TUC has an anti-cuts rally planned Saturday, local police have refused plans for a march and the rally is to be held in a fucking car park. Anyway, it'll be good if some of the old stodgy goats could be encouraged to move on to the local shopping centre afterwards to shout loudly outside vodaphone/topshop. Actually, we've just got a brand new tesco ... 

I've asked our uni's nus if they'd show support and send people/advertise for Saturday. Nothing.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Our local TUC has an anti-cuts rally planned Saturday, local police have refused plans for a march and the rally is to be held in a fucking car park. Anyway, it'll be good if some of the old stodgy goats could be encouraged to move on to the local shopping centre afterwards to shout loudly outside vodaphone/topshop. Actually, we've just got a brand new tesco ...
> 
> I've asked our uni's nus if they'd show support and send people/advertise for Saturday. Nothing.


Get some mates together. Form a plan. Make a leaflet. Gather a mob at the rally and head off from there.


----------



## belboid (Nov 30, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> Just had a text saying a lloyds tsb's been occupied in cardiff.


 
50 of 'em according to SW

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=23218


----------



## Cobbles (Nov 30, 2010)

moon23 said:


> Good idea, tax-dodging is not on.



 Yes it is - tax avoidance is 100% legal (unlike cheating on the dole which is just theft).


----------



## past caring (Nov 30, 2010)

Prince Rhyus said:


> http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2010/11/whats-point-of-rampaging-through-london.html
> 
> Must have been following events somewhere else.



W**t H*m cunt.


----------



## belboid (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> Yes it is - tax avoidance is 100% legal (unlike cheating on the dole which is just theft).


 
and 100% cuntish (unlike 'cheating' on the dole)


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 30, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11878732

Made me laugh watching this.

Well done students.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

ymu said:


> Get some mates together. Form a plan. Make a leaflet. Gather a mob at the rally and head off from there.


 
Would that it were as easy. My 'mates' aren't in the least bit interested in this (and I'm a mature student loner, which doesn't help ). I am, however, attempting to make contact with others via fb, and after a bit of a social media showdown with our NUS's vp comms over the weekend I'm trying to get something like a cuts group moving.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Nov 30, 2010)

I think the march in M'cr was a bit of a letdown for many today, we could only muster a third of what we managed to get out last Wednesday, it wasn't as enthusiastic neither. Nationally the day was brilliant, we need to keep the momentum going, and get everyone else involved in the fun. I'm hoping that it doesn't turn into a London only thing though.


----------



## kropotkin (Nov 30, 2010)

The most inspiring thing is that this is autonomous of the Left, it is real people.
Learning, changing, experimenting...joining the dots without any vanguard needed to tell them how.

Can't wait to start getting involved myself!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> Uni of Sheffield re-occupied as well


 
Do you know which building? I've heard Hicks (again) and Richard Roberts - I'm assuming they haven't occupied both. Might take a walk over in a bit and have a look.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

kropotkin said:


> The most inspiring thing is that this is autonomous of the Left, it is real people.
> Learning, changing, experimenting...joining the dots without any vanguard needed to tell them how.
> 
> Can't wait to start getting involved myself!


 
And I don't think 'the left' like it one bit.

(By 'the left' I mean the establishment (lol) - swappies, SP ... They're not in charge. Diddums.)


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

> Philip Green is a multi-billionaire businessman, who runs some of the biggest names on British high streets. His retail empire includes brands such as Topshop, Topman, Dorothy Perkins, Burton, Miss Selfridge and British Home Stores.
> 
> Philip Green is not a non-dom. He lives in the UK. He works in the UK. He pays tax on his salary in the UK. All seems to be in order. Until you realise that Philip Green does not actually own any of the Arcadia group that he spends every day running. Instead, it is in the name of his wife who has not done a single day’s work for the company. Mrs Green lives in Monaco, where she pays not a penny of income tax.
> 
> ...



don't think Saturday is meant to include Tesco, not that anyones stopping anyone mind


----------



## belboid (Nov 30, 2010)

SpineyNorman said:


> Do you know which building? I've heard Hicks (again) and Richard Roberts - I'm assuming they haven't occupied both. Might take a walk over in a bit and have a look.


 


Richard Roberts according to their tumblr

http://sheffieldoccupation.tumblr.com/

They request 'supplies'


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> Yes it is - tax avoidance is 100% legal (unlike cheating on the dole which is just theft).


 
Fuck off.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Would that it were as easy. My 'mates' aren't in the least bit interested in this (and I'm a mature student loner, which doesn't help ). I am, however, attempting to make contact with others via fb, and after a bit of a social media showdown with our NUS's vp comms over the weekend I'm trying to get something like a cuts group moving.


----------



## Refused as fuck (Nov 30, 2010)

Apparently cops have used tasers on demonstraters in Brighton. ACAB.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Threshers_Flail said:


> I think the march in M'cr was a bit of a letdown for many today, we could only muster a third of what we managed to get out last Wednesday, it wasn't as enthusiastic neither. Nationally the day was brilliant, we need to keep the momentum going, and get everyone else involved in the fun. I'm hoping that it doesn't turn into a London only thing though.


 
today was always going to be difficult in some places with the tight turnaround from last week and other factors.  numbers were down in most places.  many protests for today were arranged without time for even a poster to be knocked up.

there's a decent stretch now for those for whom today came too soon to regroup and prepare for the 9th onwards, when things will _really_ come thick and fast.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

I didn't refer to tax avoidance, I referred to tax-dodging. The former is legal. The latter covers all forms of theft by withholding tax, including evasion and artificial avoidance.

National bash a tax-dodger day, Saturday. Dozens of targets on a high street near you. Phone a friend, or head down there and make some new ones. Those who benefit from the economy must be made to pay for it. Let's make sure they do. Cobbles' days are numbered, if anyone needs an extra incentive to turn out...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

In earlier post, by 'social media showdown' I mean he didn't like it that I called them all cunts.


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> don't think Saturday is meant to include Tesco, not that anyones stopping anyone mind


 
I think it's supposed to include any tax-dodging target. Tesco are one of the worst. Perfectly legitimate.


----------



## BigTom (Nov 30, 2010)

went down to the birmingham council house, couldn't get inside -there's no entrance from the underground car park and of the three entrances to the council house, one had shutters down, the one for deliveries is permanently gated anyway and you have to buzz through to get it open, the main entrance blocked by police.
Lively demo outside the council house, 40-50 people there when I arrived, and probably another 20 people joined us coming there from work.  60 odd occupied inside.

someone from Unison spoke (not in an official capacity mind) as there was a meeting between unions and council execs going at, talking about having a public consultation regarding the city cuts (26,000 job loses, bin men striking over a £4,000 pay cut, other pay cuts imminent for workers) and he expressed solidarity with the students and the occupation, and with how the students have been acting recently, how it's really given a boost to the council workers, who are behind the students 100%, talking about the need for the unions and the students to work together on wider actions and collaborate.

Occupiers left peacefully at around 5pm, and marched back through the city centre, to a little rally where actions on the 8th and 9th december were announced (someone from education activist network is coming to speak in brum on the 9th).

BBC West midlands told me that they had a reporter inside at the occupation, so I'll be looking out for news coverage. couldn't get through to brmb or birmingham post/mail to see why they didn't have reporters there.  I'll also post up any links to video/photos that I get.. 

http://twitpic.com/3bn7jl for a picture from inside the occupation - there are others there as well, but also photo's from other actions..


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> Richard Roberts according to their tumblr
> 
> http://sheffieldoccupation.tumblr.com/
> 
> They request 'supplies'


 
Cheers. Better stop off at a shop on the way.


----------



## Cobbles (Nov 30, 2010)

Gosh - a few hundred knobheads (some small percentage of whom may actually be "students") caused a lot of inconvenience to the hundreds of thousands of londoners who clearly couldn't give a toss...........

Hopefully the twats who have been corralled at the end of this pointless exercise will be forced to pay their share of the cost of managing this onanism masquerading as "wadikal diwekt akshun".


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> Gosh - a few hundred knobheads (some percentage of whom may actually be "students") caused a lot of inconvenience to the hundreds of thousands of londoners who clearly couldn't give a toss...........
> 
> Hopefully the twats who have been corralled at the end of this pointless exercise will be forced to pay their share of the cost of managing this onanism masquerading as "wadikal diwekt akshun".


 
you'll get yours


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Nov 30, 2010)

BigTom said:


> (someone from education activist network is coming to speak in brum on the 9th)



They're just SWP.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

Come 'ere Cobbles and give us a kiss ... G'wan, us students aren't all toxic ... *puckers up*


----------



## ymu (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> Gosh - a few hundred knobheads (some small percentage of whom may actually be "students") caused a lot of inconvenience to the hundreds of thousands of londoners who clearly couldn't give a toss...........
> 
> Hopefully the twats who have been corralled at the end of this pointless exercise will be forced to pay their share of the cost of managing this onanism masquerading as "wadikal diwekt akshun".


You sound rattled.

You should be.


----------



## Threshers_Flail (Nov 30, 2010)

where to said:


> today was always going to be difficult in some places with the tight turnaround from last week and other factors.  numbers were down in most places.  many protests for today were arranged without time for even a poster to be knocked up.
> 
> there's a decent stretch now for those for whom today came too soon to regroup and prepare for the 9th onwards, when things will _really_ come thick and fast.


 
Yeah, think we got a little complacent, just expecting people to come. Also we've had an occupation going on that has used up a lot of energy, which maybe could have been put to better use considering nobody has heard of it. I'm looking forward to the 11th.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

Grey underpants and an imaginary stock portfolio.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Nov 30, 2010)

i work at Leeds Uni, can anyone recommend any good anarchist material like leaflets on organising etc., that i could print out and leave in the occupied Michael Sadler building?

(seems to be full of trots!)


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> Gosh - a few hundred knobheads (some small percentage of whom may actually be "students") caused a lot of inconvenience to the hundreds of thousands of londoners who clearly couldn't give a toss...........
> 
> Hopefully the twats who have been corralled at the end of this pointless exercise will be forced to pay their share of the cost of managing this onanism masquerading as "wadikal diwekt akshun".



You're a parody. right?


----------



## smmudge (Nov 30, 2010)

Barking_Mad said:


> (seems to be full of trots!)


 
Innit 

Though the vast majority of students there are trying to keep things more 'ideologically neutral' if you will, lots are well aware how off-putting that crap can be.

IMO some anarchist leaflets will go down quite nicely


----------



## Cobbles (Nov 30, 2010)

ymu said:


> You sound rattled.
> 
> You should be.



Hardly - nobody cares about folk who don't even have a vote (schoolkids) and anyone with any sense realises what a hideous hardship it is (NOT), asking a graduate to pay back a couple of bottles of Lambrini a month against the education that they have received.

There is a value differential between attending some former poly that can barely manage a pottery O grade, never mind a real course, versus the cost of attending a real university.

Market forces rule.

Here's to the next 2 decades (at least) of non-Labour, anti-PC and bollox-to-faux-gweenie, value for money Government.

If you don't like it, then by all means do book a flight to North Korea (before the Chinese get fed up with their posturing and reduce it to glowing glass).


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

the lady, she doth protest


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Nov 30, 2010)

Wankah..


----------



## belboid (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> asking a graduate to pay back a couple of bottles of Lambrini a month against the education that they have received.


how much do you think a bottle of lambrini costs?


(and that was the closest thing to a sensible comment in your whole post)


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

You're great value for money, that's for sure Cobbles.


----------



## BigTom (Nov 30, 2010)

BBC West midlands coverage of birmingham occupation with a short video

e2a: it's not very interesting though, but I thought I'd post it anyway. now I'm thinking there wasn't much point.


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 30, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> You're great value for money, that's for sure Cobbles.


 
Unfortunately, we have run out of money.  I think that's a cut we could all get behind


----------



## chilango (Nov 30, 2010)

Milan City Centre is quiet now. 

A couple of bunches of riot cops hanging around in the square, transport seemed to be running normally. 

Students have cleared off somewhere. I looked for them in a studenty bar, but it was oddly quiet. I did wait a fair while mind...

Make this Europe wide kids.


----------



## Cobbles (Nov 30, 2010)

belboid said:


> how much do you think a bottle of lambrini costs?
> 
> 
> (and that was the closest thing to a sensible comment in your whole post)



So a student's liable to graduate with 15K of debt - that's less than some moronic chav'll rack up on a ghastly second hand Astra by the time they're embellished it with some bog-awful fibreglass and a "bangin" (whatever that is) sound system.

If a labourer from Essex can pay that off in a year or three (by getting off their arse and working hard), then what's to stop a student from managing the same?

Nowt.

Zero.

Zip.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Yeah, think we got a little complacent, just expecting people to come. Also we've had an occupation going on that has used up a lot of energy, which maybe could have been put to better use considering nobody has heard of it. I'm looking forward to the 11th.


 
admirable honesty there.

the occupations can be very useful if the time and space is used to reach out, to organise and to plan.

but i wonder if people think occupation is an effective protest in itself.  lets be honest here, occupations do not really hurt anybody.  any genuinely disturbing occupation will almost by default get up the backs of the people you need to win over (fellow students) more than anyone else (e.g. occupation of a lecture theatre or space that other students want to use).

i've heard of messages going round "can people go to such and such a uni to support the occupation as numbers are low".  but there's nothing really to defend, if the occupation peters out, so what?  not the end of the world in tactical, strategic or pragmatic terms.  waste of energy keeping something going beyond its natural shelflife.

similarly its appeared at times that those in occupation are spending more time talking to eachother, between various occupations, supporting each other (nothing wrong with that per se) than communicating with the outside world.

these comments are all pretty unfair in the large, as what's happened over the last week has been fantastic.  many of the worst fears of occupations haven't been borne out (idiotic vandalism etc) and great innovative ideas/ technology have emerged.  

but things can be bettered: face out, no in.  

always useful to ask: is this effective?


----------



## Phil Aychio (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> So a student's liable to graduate with 15K of debt - that's less than some moronic chav'll rack up on a ghastly second hand Astra by the time they're embellished it with some bog-awful fibreglass and a "bangin" (whatever that is) sound system.
> 
> If a labourer from Essex can pay that off in a year or three (by getting off their arse and working hard), then what's to stop a student from managing the same?
> 
> ...


 
err... hardly any private-sector jobs?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> So a student's liable to graduate with 15K of debt - that's less than some moronic chav'll rack up on a ghastly second hand Astra by the time they're embellished it with some bog-awful fibreglass and a "bangin" (whatever that is) sound system.
> 
> If a labourer from Essex can pay that off in a year or three (by getting off their arse and working hard), then what's to stop a student from managing the same?
> 
> ...


 
£15K? I'd go back to your notes on that one.

3 x 9 = 27. That's just the fees.

I don't know the status of student loans atm as it's been 3 years since I was an undergrad., but if it's anything similar then add another £5k/year of student loan on top. 

Even me with my liberal arts background can tell that's £42k. 

That's a lot of Lambrini.


----------



## belboid (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> So a student's liable to graduate with 15K of debt - that's less than some moronic chav'll rack up on a ghastly second hand Astra by the time they're embellished it with some bog-awful fibreglass and a "bangin" (whatever that is) sound system.
> 
> If a labourer from Essex can pay that off in a year or three (by getting off their arse and working hard), then what's to stop a student from managing the same?
> 
> ...


 
the last three words there sum up perfectly your knowledge of the cost of things.  which is still more than you know about there value


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

Awesome. Run around, so no flashpoints for either police kettling or black bloc Daily Mail modelling assignment.

Protesting 2.0


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 30, 2010)

oh, don't bother seriously engaging with it for gods sake. Cobbles wants to be an ultra thatcherite success story but inevitably gives himself away as a failed bitter wannabe. The clue is that people with his views rarely bother engaging in discourse, they don't need to. Every response you feed him brings him closer to the vinegars.


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Has this been posted anywhere yet?

Barnaby Raine, co-convenor of School Students Against the War, tells huge anti-cuts conference why police kettling won't stop students protesting against education cuts.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 30, 2010)

*waits for someone to moan that his name is Barnaby*


----------



## story (Nov 30, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> *waits for someone to moan that his name is Barnaby*


 
aye


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

GBC legal seem to be all over twitter suggesting assaulted students get in touch. Altruists or ambulance chasers?


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

Amazing speech by that Barnaby kid. Makes that Aaron bloke look quite pathetic in comparison.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Amazing speech by that Barnaby kid. Makes that Aaron bloke look quite pathetic in comparison.


in all fairness, it doesn't take much to make aaron porter look quite pathetic


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> So a student's liable to graduate with 15K of debt - that's less than some moronic chav'll rack up on a ghastly second hand Astra by the time they're embellished it with some bog-awful fibreglass and a "bangin" (whatever that is) sound system.
> 
> If a labourer from Essex can pay that off in a year or three (by getting off their arse and working hard), then what's to stop a student from managing the same?
> 
> ...


how much are you in debt?


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> in all fairness, it doesn't take much to make aaron porter look quite pathetic


 
Very true. Maybe "even more pathetic" would have been better.


----------



## rekil (Nov 30, 2010)

chilango said:


> Milan City Centre is quiet now.
> 
> A couple of bunches of riot cops hanging around in the square, transport seemed to be running normally.
> 
> ...


 400,000 out nationwide I read somewhere. The book block idea is great.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 30, 2010)

I've just been and had a look at the Sheffield occupation. This information will probably be no use to anyone ever but I suppose it's relevant.

It wasn't what I was expecting at all (though I'm not sure exactly what I _was_ expecting tbh, never having seen a student occupation before) - no coppers whatsoever and only one security guard. I wouldn't like to guess how many students there were but I'd be surprised if there were less than 100 - loads in the foyer and it looked like there was some kind of meeting going on in the lecture theatre. Looked like there were a lot of people just hanging around wondering what to do next.

The lack of police struck me as particularly odd - when they occupied another building last week there was a noticable police presence throughout. I'm just a bit confused as to why they're not there now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## DJWrongspeed (Nov 30, 2010)

Saw some into it 6formers on the tube today, all home made banners and face paint.

"Samantha's not the only one being fucked by Cameron "


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Saw some into it 6formers on the tube today, all home made banners and face paint.
> 
> "Samantha's not the only one being fucked by Cameron "


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

smokedout said:


> Lib-dem Councillors home attacked by Students
> 
> http://www.demotix.com/news/522819/lib-dem-councillors-home-attacked-students
> 
> scared yet moonie



they can't kettle everyone


----------



## sherpa (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> nobody cares about folk who don't even have a vote (schoolkids)



Nobody cares about you, Cobbles.


----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Liberty now taking an interest in kettling



> FOR ALL THOSE BELOW THE AGE OF 16 WHO HAVE BEEN KETTLED: Liberty would like you to get in touch with them asap as they are investigating it all now...please e-mail Laura Milne, Advice and Information Officer at Information@liberty-human-rights.org.uk


----------



## Cobbles (Nov 30, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> how much are you in debt?


 
On a day to day basis, there may be a 5/6 grand "debt" across my credit cards but they're all paid off at the end of the month. 

My secured loans are well run (closely managed tenants) so that (a) borrowings are less than 10% of the worst case portfolio value and (b) as and when it makes sense, I can lob chunks of capital against loans.

It's not something that they teach at ex-polys but anyone can pick it up.

If you're a Labour MP, you can even make a few savings by pretending that someone's spare bedroom's your "residence" so you can claim spennies against your actual home's mortgage - sweet!

The whole problem would be solved if all purely recreational courses (e.g. those from which students haven't a hope of finding gainful employment) had to be paid for up front - in cash.

If all you've got is a couple of C's and a B (based on the current "_can you fill in the front of the form - if yes, then you get a C pass_"), then you shouldn't be wasting the nation's resources on a "degree" - head straight for a vocational course.

University is for those who have some academic ability, not folk who've managed to drift through as far as 5th year without getting chucked out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

Cobbles said:


> University is for those who have some academic ability, not folk who've managed to drift through as far as 5th year without getting chucked out.


 are you trying to insinuate something?


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

twitter now saying all 100 people left in trafalgar square being arrested


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

smokedout said:


> twitter now saying all 100 people left in trafalgar square being arrested


on a positive note it'll be considerably warmer in the police station than it was in the square


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

very true, not as warm as a wetherspoons though


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Nov 30, 2010)

What have they been arrested for?


----------



## weepiper (Nov 30, 2010)

Prince Rhyus said:


> What have they been arrested for?


 
so the police don't get pilloried for kettling under-16s in subzero temperatures.


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

confirmed by fitwatch - failure to comply to dispersal order

numbers unclear, some saying 40, some 100


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

Not complying with a dispersal order I think.


----------



## Flanflinger (Nov 30, 2010)

Prince Rhyus said:


> What have they been arrested for?



Impersonating intelligent people.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

Apparently about 300 students were nicked from a kettle. Filth drove up with a fleet of hoolie vans and took them.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Kettling people then arresting them for non-dispersal.


----------



## Zabo (Nov 30, 2010)

*story.* The Barnaby clip is superb. What a pleasure for an old git like me to listen to a passionate and articulate young man. A young person who wants to contribute to society and to give his all to his beliefs.

It was a pleasure to watch and listen. Thank You

Cheers


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> Kettling people then arresting them for non-dispersal.


i'm sure there's a logic there somewhere. hopefully they'll all sue.


----------



## OneStrike (Nov 30, 2010)

Supposing that they are actually charged with anything, is it legal to put in the conditions that they aren't allowed upon a public protest? (as they do with football whereby your bail conditions can include not attending a match or associating with certain people)


----------



## ska invita (Nov 30, 2010)

story said:


> Has this been posted anywhere yet?
> 
> Barnaby Raine, co-convenor of School Students Against the War, tells huge anti-cuts conference why police kettling won't stop students protesting against education cuts.


 
There was another student on the platform in that session, not as well-to-do, first time talking on a stage, but just as passionate and eloquent. didnt catch the name - if anyone knows and there's videos about its worth posting too. Both very inspiring


----------



## shaman75 (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## where to (Nov 30, 2010)

Zabo said:


> *story.* The Barnaby clip is superb. What a pleasure for an old git like me to listen to a passionate and articulate young man. A young person who wants to contribute to society and to give his all to his beliefs.
> 
> It was a pleasure to watch and listen. Thank You
> 
> Cheers


 
its good.  hope he doesn't become a cunt with age.


----------



## revlon (Nov 30, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> *waits for someone to moan that his name is Barnaby*


 
or which school he went to


----------



## smokedout (Nov 30, 2010)

which school did he go to?


----------



## revlon (Nov 30, 2010)

westminster

(king of debate club)


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

Just heard some of those kettled and nicked have been released without charge.


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> Kettling people then arresting them for non-dispersal.


 
It's funny in a stupid way.

They spend all day playing run around, then get nicked when they stop. It's like tag.

I can now secretly reveal that next week's Metropolitain Police Force public order strategy will be: Hopscotch. Rumours that the boys in blue will gain advantage by only have to hop into one chalked square, marked "Oi!", are unconfirmed.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 30, 2010)

revlon said:


> westminster
> 
> (king of debate club)



Yeah yeah, quit bitching. Passionate, politically interesting and useful people come from the other side of the class divide too. Always have done, always will.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

...and that's it?


----------



## revlon (Nov 30, 2010)

Brainaddict said:


> Yeah yeah, quit bitching. Passionate, politically interesting and useful people come from the other side of the class divide too. Always have done, always will.


 
Tony benn?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

sic transit stupor mundi


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

revlon said:


> Tony benn?


 
who's he useful for? and viscount stansgate's not all that interesting either.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> ...and that's it?


 It's such a dull debate. Yeah, sure his position in society has got him to a place where he can speak. He may even be more likely to 'revert to type' for structural reasons. But nothing is certain. Being a well-read man you'll spot who this is immediately:

XXXX was privately educated until 1830, when he enrolled at Trier High School. He enrolled in the University of Bonn in 1835 at the age of seventeen; he wished to study philosophy and literature, but his father insisted on law as a more practical field of study. At Bonn he joined the Trier Tavern Club drinking society (Landsmannschaft der Treveraner) and at one point served as its president.


----------



## revlon (Nov 30, 2010)

Brainaddict said:


> It's such a dull debate. Yeah, sure his position in society has got him to a place where he can speak. He may even be more likely to 'revert to type' for structural reasons. But nothing is certain. Being a well-read man you'll spot who this is immediately:
> 
> XXXX was privately educated until 1830, when he enrolled at Trier High School. He enrolled in the University of Bonn in 1835 at the age of seventeen; he wished to study philosophy and literature, but his father insisted on law as a more practical field of study. At Bonn he joined the Trier Tavern Club drinking society (Landsmannschaft der Treveraner) and at one point served as its president.


 
tony benn?


----------



## shaman75 (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 30, 2010)

revlon said:


> tony benn?


 
 I thought he was lookin old.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

revlon said:


> tony benn?


----------



## revlon (Nov 30, 2010)

shaman75 said:


>




kin ell punchline comes right at the very end. Nasty.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Brainaddict said:


> It's such a dull debate. Yeah, sure his position in society has got him to a place where he can speak. He may even be more likely to 'revert to type' for structural reasons. But nothing is certain. Being a well-read man you'll spot who this is immediately:
> 
> XXXX was privately educated until 1830, when he enrolled at Trier High School. He enrolled in the University of Bonn in 1835 at the age of seventeen; he wished to study philosophy and literature, but his father insisted on law as a more practical field of study. At Bonn he joined the Trier Tavern Club drinking society (Landsmannschaft der Treveraner) and at one point served as its president.


 
You sound like you've learned something. You haven't.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 30, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> You sound like you've learned something. You haven't.


 
yeh. and he can't spell 'marx'


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Brainaddict said:


> It's such a dull debate. Yeah, sure his position in society has got him to a place where he can speak. He may even be more likely to 'revert to type' for structural reasons. But nothing is certain. Being a well-read man you'll spot who this is immediately


 
wtf do you mean by 



> sure his position in society has got him to a place where he can speak



and let's skip over it? Is this not important to you?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> And I don't think 'the left' like it one bit.
> 
> (By 'the left' I mean the establishment (lol) - swappies, SP ... *They're not in charge*. Diddums.)


 
And the longer it stays that way, the better.


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

shaman75 said:


>




Blindsided, no challenge, floored guy not carrying any weapon that I could see after several replays.

Would be interesting to have seen what happened next. Why cut there? Maybe battery out or clip limit hit, but statistically unlikely. Hopefully whoever shot it has/will post the rest.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 30, 2010)

Flanflinger said:


> Impersonating intelligent people.


 
You know, it's really not good form to project your own crimes onto others.


----------



## flash (Nov 30, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Blindsided, no challenge, floored guy not carrying any weapon that I could see after several replays.
> 
> Would be interesting to have seen what happened next. Why cut there? Maybe battery out or clip limit hit, but statistically unlikely. Hopefully whoever shot it has/will post the rest.



Taking a wild guess, looks like he said something to the cop to the right of him, the cop on the left had has had a crap day (understandably) and decides to have him for a section 5 public order offence (being verbally abusive to a policeman or similar). Just as likely we that we won't see what happens afterwards, I doubt we will see what happened before that is likely to be equally incriminating the other way. It takes two to tango.


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

'understandably'?

fuck that. we pay them a princely sum to have crap days.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

flash said:


> It takes two to tango.


 
Was that a 'tango'?


----------



## creak (Nov 30, 2010)

tango down, obv.


----------



## Cobbles (Nov 30, 2010)

revlon said:


> Tony benn?



Do you mean Viscount Stansgate?


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

yeah, someone said that already.


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

"Tango Whiskey Alpha Tango Sierra"

With thanks to 'Early Doors'


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

flash said:


> Taking a wild guess, looks like he said something to the cop to the right of him, the cop on the left had has had a crap day (understandably) and decides to have him for a section 5 public order offence (being verbally abusive to a policeman or similar). Just as likely we that we won't see what happens afterwards, I doubt we will see what happened before that is likely to be equally incriminating the other way. It takes two to tango.


 
Hmm.

I'd rather see a bit more footage, rather than gaps filled in imaginatively by a random, or implicitly by the editing of the uploader.


----------



## smmudge (Nov 30, 2010)

Nick Clegg lol in letter to aaron porter



> Like me I am sure you have regularly spoken to people who believe that the new proposals will mean them having to pay before they go to university



Hmm yes that's right, people are angry because they don't understand  Who the fuck has he been speaking too?


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Nov 30, 2010)

I am so fucking proud of these young people - many of them taking action for the first time


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

The Clegg-Porter dream team alliance. I cannot see any possible opportunity for failure. It'll work. Definitely.


----------



## paolo (Nov 30, 2010)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I am so fucking proud of these young people - many of them taking action for the first time


 
Yep. There's many a sorry oldie here - well me at least - that feels a bit shown up. We're being led from 'below' right now. Good on 'em.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

nice on TC


----------



## TopCat (Nov 30, 2010)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I am so fucking proud of these young people - many of them taking action for the first time


 
This fucking this.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.
> lly


 
Did they get you ambulance treated  - one more piece of evidence if they did.

Fucking result mate.


----------



## killer b (Nov 30, 2010)

were you there for the mass arrest TC? more info please if so...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

Also, TC is a beacon to anyone else - get fucking out there.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

Good work TC


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Did they get you ambulance treated  - one more piece of evidence if they did.
> 
> Fucking result mate.


 
I have ALL the paperwork. I interrupted the groaning (the pain you know) to quote the road traffic act from an innocent third party point of view. Its a guaranteed claim! Ambulance report and everything!


----------



## revlon (Dec 1, 2010)

the info that's coming in is 139 arrests for breach of the peace and 2 for violent disorder (don't know if that includes top cat) from the kettle, and 7 from earlier, not known.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I have ALL the paperwork. I interrupted the groaning (the pain you know) to quote the road traffic act from an innocent third party point of view. Its a guaranteed claim! Ambulance report and everything!


 
Mine's a kroneberg.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

killer b said:


> were you there for the mass arrest TC? more info please if so...


 
It was alleged that I got bored at Trafalgar Square and wanting to go for a beer fought my through the line only to find a Blues Brothers style amount of plod looking at me open mouthed. Then they jumped me...All lies comrades. My neck!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

It was in perfect working order earlier today sir


----------



## gawkrodger (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.


 
hahahahahah Top marks!


----------



## OneStrike (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.



That kind of injury can lead to months of massages and time off from shit you don't want to do but still have to do as part of day to day life, unlucky TC.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

From listening to the plod in the van's conversation there was instructions to ditch as many as possible prisoners who HAD ONLY been arrested for breach of the peace out of "the borough of Westminster" without further charges. They were telling me and the other bod that the police cells were full and that we were going to Wandsworth prison instead. I had trouble trying not to laugh. This was before the collision mind. Oh my neck hurts, must go and rest.


----------



## moon23 (Dec 1, 2010)

copliker said:


> 400,000 out nationwide I read somewhere. The book block idea is great.


 
I'm impressed by the whole phalanx formation they have going on


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 1, 2010)

Romans innit.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

Good days work TC.


----------



## moon23 (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.


 
If you do feel the need to sue the police then I hope you will spend the money on a worthwhile cause, and I hope your neck is ok.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 1, 2010)

moon23 said:


> If you do feel the need to sue the police then I hope you will spend the money on a worthwhile cause.


 
Yep, getting butchersapron shite French lager.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

moon23 said:


> I'm impressed by the whole phalanx formation they have going on


 
Fuck off moon. I'm aching from a battering from _your_ plod. Just fuck off _yeah_?


----------



## OneStrike (Dec 1, 2010)

The stiffness of the neck will probably be worst tomorrow TC, might be worth getting it checked out.


----------



## where to (Dec 1, 2010)

fucking hell these kids are serious: 34 have signed up to march from huddersfield to cleggs office in sheffield !!

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=121794497885005


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Dec 1, 2010)

http://www.nus.org.uk/en/News/News/...g-letter-on-tuition-fees-and-education-cuts-/ - response to Nick Clegg's letter by the NUS


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

Shooting pains are making me all jumpy. I feel alive though. ALIVE!


----------



## wtfftw (Dec 1, 2010)

I like the video here http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/video/2010/nov/30/student-protests-day-three?CMP=twt_gu. Especially the conga.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Shooting pains are making me all jumpy. I feel alive though. ALIVE!


 
Have a nice relax and a few bevies that will help ,and well done


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> It was alleged that I got bored at Trafalgar Square and wanting to go for a beer fought my through the line only to find a Blues Brothers style amount of plod looking at me open mouthed. Then they jumped me...All lies comrades. My neck!


 


enjoy your claim up money.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 1, 2010)

hope you feel better soon tc. get some rest !!


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

moon23 said:


> If you do feel the need to sue the police then I hope you will spend the money on a worthwhile cause, and I hope your neck is ok.


 
I _promise_ free drugs, booze, drum and bass, reggae and a wild time on the proceeds for all ACAB types.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm so happy at how the schoolies had their act together today. No kettle,No police, FUCK THE POLICE!


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 1, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Blindsided, no challenge, floored guy not carrying any weapon that I could see after several replays.
> 
> Would be interesting to have seen what happened next. Why cut there? Maybe battery out or clip limit hit, but statistically unlikely. Hopefully whoever shot it has/will post the rest.


 
the youtube page says:

"He though I was someone else, so instead of stoping me and checking, he pushed me to the floor and punched me in the face. Very professional."

Mobile phone upload I think, so i doubt there is more footage.  They seem to be just enjoying the music in the other clips.


----------



## Phil Aychio (Dec 1, 2010)

Newcastle footage found! )


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 1, 2010)




----------



## ymu (Dec 1, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> the lady, she doth protest


 
Innit!


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 1, 2010)

There is one thing businesses don't like is bad publicity and the demos at their shops etc does not bode well .esp when they spend millions on advertising to make them look benevolent instead of the cunts they are


----------



## killer b (Dec 1, 2010)

newcastle looked like fun.


----------



## past caring (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.



I was looking for you but couldn't find you - realised when I tried to phone I have got your old number. Hope you are sufficiently recovered in time to make it Saturday - PM me your number so I can let you know details.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 1, 2010)

nice one tc. Rest up that neck


----------



## magneze (Dec 1, 2010)

shaman75 said:


>


wtf, that looks dodgy. No provocation just tackled him to the floor.


----------



## magneze (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.


Hehe, the muppets.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 1, 2010)

Take it easy, TC


----------



## weepiper (Dec 1, 2010)

top work, TC.


----------



## where to (Dec 1, 2010)

Phil Aychio said:


> Newcastle footage found! )




great video, uncontrolable.



> *BANKS GOT BAILED OUT, WE GOT SOLD OUT. *



very good chant that


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I got arrested tonight for allegedly committing violent disorder, assault on police and breech of the peace. All connected apparently with breaking out of a post work kettle. The silly fucker driving the police van got bored waiting in the traffic q and turned on the blues and twos. She then crashed! I slumped and moaned about my injuries to neck head etc. Given I was rigid cuffed behind my back I could not protect my self from the collision. They all stopped being ultra aggressive and called their boss (many times) and an ambulance. I was then de arrested and freed. Not before I got all the drivers details and then other drivers details. There will be a fuck da police party on the proceeds I promise.


 top stuff tc


----------



## albionism (Dec 1, 2010)

wtfftw said:


> I like the video here http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/video/2010/nov/30/student-protests-day-three?CMP=twt_gu. Especially the conga.


 
Check out the absolute fucking idiot at 4:52 on the video!. Is he really suggesting he'd rather see kids shot on the streets 
for using their democratic right to protest? What an utter shit for brains. Beyond moronic. An excremental smear on the 
face of humanity..He represents everything that's wrong with the country and the world.I'm proud of the young people 
on the streets of the UK. Keep the pressure on.


----------



## dennisr (Dec 1, 2010)

The "Tom and Jerry" tactic:


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 1, 2010)

ace ^^

and top work tc


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

Who is coming to Camden tonight? No rest for the wicked.


----------



## dennisr (Dec 1, 2010)

"Students cause chaos around Italy in cuts protest"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11877337
_
"Italian student protesters have been causing major disruption in the capital, Rome, and other cities as MPs debate a bill on education reform.
Rome was brought to a virtual standstill by the Block Everything Day ahead of the vote on spending cuts and time limits on research."_


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Dec 1, 2010)

dennisr said:


> The "Tom and Jerry" tactic:




Yes! Glad someone did it


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Dec 1, 2010)

I wonder if a bored scientist somewhere has actually done a brain scan of someone while they're listening to that music? It makes ANYTHING funny


----------



## where to (Dec 1, 2010)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/video/2010/nov/30/student-protests-day-three?CMP=twt_gu

another great video there, "middle class protest" no it fucking isn't.


----------



## dennisr (Dec 1, 2010)

where to said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/video/2010/nov/30/student-protests-day-three?CMP=twt_gu
> 
> another great video there, "middle class protest" no it fucking isn't.


 
top post (at 3.47 - excellent


----------



## plurker (Dec 1, 2010)

Anyone looking to help out the students at UCL occupation  -they're fighting eviction

_@UCLOccupation  I repeat - please head to UCL and try and get the JBR secure - the occupation has been threatened_


----------



## where to (Dec 1, 2010)

off twitter:

Lets clarify tuition fees with a TV debate. Vince Cable could propose and then arguing against you could have Vince Cable

lol


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 1, 2010)

Yeah, I just saw that


----------



## smokedout (Dec 1, 2010)

is this urban being discussed

http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/what-they-think-of-us/#comments


----------



## Flanflinger (Dec 1, 2010)

Drop the fees and replace the proposal with less funding for universities. Does the country really benefit from all those graduates ?


----------



## creak (Dec 1, 2010)

smokedout said:


> is this urban being discussed
> 
> http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/what-they-think-of-us/#comments


 
It is urban, yes. See the 'Police send in the horses on kettled demonstrators' thread. It's not d-b though, I already asked.


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Dec 1, 2010)

Anyone see Milband he said that he was going to join our protest? What a muppet.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

Flanflinger said:


> Drop the fees and replace the proposal with less funding for universities. Does the country really benefit from all those graduates ?


 
Keep trying, some bored poster will bite soon enough.


----------



## dennisr (Dec 1, 2010)

a really tediously bored poster...


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Dec 1, 2010)

Seen T Square and fun must had happened after I left the kettle Tesco Windows smashed/cracked and political slogans duped on Nelson Column.


----------



## killer b (Dec 1, 2010)

hmm. not got sound here so can't watch the vid, but the gist of it in the article sounds a bit


----------



## plurker (Dec 1, 2010)

not sure how to embed youtube vids? This one shows a clear punch in the face from this cop, shoulder number visible.


----------



## TopCat (Dec 1, 2010)

This is the same copper shown punching the guy in the face from another angle.


----------



## ymu (Dec 1, 2010)

Hit the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 icon above the editing box and paste the url in. Or just type the [video] tags.


----------



## plurker (Dec 1, 2010)

ymu said:


> Hit the
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
thanks


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Also, TC is a beacon to anyone else - get fucking out there.


 
I just had a vision of you singing - 

Top Cat!
The most effectual Top Cat!
Who's intellectual close friends get to call him T.C.
Providing it's with dignity.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 1, 2010)

moon23 said:


> I'm impressed by the whole phalanx formation they have going on


 






*TESTUDO!!!*


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 1, 2010)

creak said:


> It is urban, yes. See the 'Police send in the horses on kettled demonstrators' thread. It's not d-b though, I already asked.


 
Interesting, given that they've actually quoted two of my posts without attribution (either to Urban or to my user-name). Aren't the little dears aware of the copyright issues? I'm sure that the ed has made them perfectly clear in the FAQs.


----------



## creak (Dec 1, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Interesting, given that they've actually quoted two of my posts without attribution (either to Urban or to my user-name). Aren't the little dears aware of the copyright issues? I'm sure that the ed has made them perfectly clear in the FAQs.


 
http://www.lawyers4u.org/


----------



## smokedout (Dec 1, 2010)

go on, send him a take down notice

(or contact wordpress who ime are pretty over zealous about copyright infringement when its reported)


----------



## ymu (Dec 1, 2010)

It's fair use, and although it really should be attributed, do we really want any of that lot coming over here?


----------



## Onket (Dec 1, 2010)

TopCat said:


> It was alleged that I got bored at Trafalgar Square and wanting to go for a beer fought my through the line only to find a Blues Brothers style amount of plod looking at me open mouthed. Then they jumped me...All lies comrades. My neck!


 
Get well soon mate!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 1, 2010)

ymu said:


> It's fair use, and although it really should be attributed...


Yes, it should. 


> ...do we really want any of that lot coming over here?


They hardly appear equipped to do much harm, except perhaps in a detective-boy-esque ranting abuse kind of way.


----------



## ymu (Dec 1, 2010)

Well, precisely.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 1, 2010)

News: the vote is set for next Thursday.

Fucking sneaky bastards.

A week of protest and activism then?


----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 1, 2010)

my thoughts and images from the day which started out good, was ruined by some idiots then I got assaulted by a Police officer

http://guerillaphotography.tumblr.com/post/2060586104/dayx2-student-protests-london-30th-nov-2010

Nick


----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 1, 2010)

Oh and someone yawn raped a Policeman in Bristol which in my mind means we win.


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 1, 2010)

GuerillaPhoto said:


> my thoughts and images from the day which started out good, was ruined by some idiots then I got assaulted by a Police officer
> 
> http://guerillaphotography.tumblr.com/post/2060586104/dayx2-student-protests-london-30th-nov-2010
> 
> Nick



Nice pics mate.  Was hard work out there.


----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 1, 2010)

yeah it was hard work and as my friend pointed out:

"I cant keep up, u just seem to run towards danger"

to which I replied:

"if your not being hit with the protesters your not close enough"

 fun times, I was there as both a protester and a photographer and I will be there again next time


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 1, 2010)




----------



## ddraig (Dec 1, 2010)

fukin great pics GP!


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 1, 2010)

Here's my hastily made video


----------



## strung out (Dec 1, 2010)

GuerillaPhoto said:


> Oh and someone yawn raped a Policeman in Bristol which in my mind means we win.


 
what does yawn raped mean?


----------



## free spirit (Dec 1, 2010)

strung out said:


> what does yawn raped mean?


sticking your finger in someone's mouth when they're yawning IIRC.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 1, 2010)

this is a better video from the birmingham city council occupation



police officer: I've got a bomb scare at the childrens hospital and I need all my officers there
protestor: They are free to leave


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 1, 2010)

bomb scare, lol!


----------



## BigTom (Dec 1, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> bomb scare, lol!


 
 and it's at the childrens' hopsital! "won't someone think of the children"  I wonder who thought that was a good idea..


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 2, 2010)




----------



## Onket (Dec 2, 2010)

GuerillaPhoto said:


> my thoughts and images from the day which started out good, was ruined by some idiots then I got assaulted by a Police officer
> 
> http://guerillaphotography.tumblr.com/post/2060586104/dayx2-student-protests-london-30th-nov-2010
> 
> Nick


 
Good work.


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

plurker said:


> This one shows a clear punch in the face from this cop, shoulder number visible.


 


TopCat said:


> This is the same copper shown punching the guy in the face from another angle.



And your point is?  

We seem to live in a world where protestors believe that any use of force by a police officer is somehow "proof" of wrongdoing.  Posting this sort of shit, in eleven and six second clips which show no context / lead up to the use of force, is just a waste of everyone's time and effort and, as with much other random whinging, serves only to undermine and cheapen allegations of police wrongdoing.

If the police took a six second chunk of footage and used it entirely out of context as the basis for a prosecution they would (quite rightly) be laughed out of Court.  And everyone where would be jumping up and down pointing out that you cannot take a six second clip of out of context footage and use it as "proof" of anything other than (usually) the physical acts pictured.

If protestors want to make proper use of phone and camera recorded footage and stills to challenge police malpractice they need to do so in a more organised way.  Instead of just sticking some random clip of some random officer on YouTube and thinking that is it, they need to do what the police do: focus their attention on those officers who they believe are the worst offenders, who are acting inappropriately repeatedly over time, and collate information in the form of footage, stills and supporting witness testimony to make their case.  In doing so they also need to deal with the fact that the officer will (invariably) be using the defence of self-defence, making a lawful arrest or whatever and so they will need to demonstrate that the force used was *not* "reasonable and necessary".

Otherwise, if they carry on as they are, those who believe they are shining a light on to police malpractice will _actually_ only succeed in obscuring it further by creating a haystack of shite amongst which the needles of genuine concern are lost ...


----------



## magneze (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> And your point is?


It's not a boxing match.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 2, 2010)

Oh no you don't.  You're not ruining this thread as well.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 2, 2010)

sooo DB, the footage of horses being used didn't prove that it was lied about?
even though it was only a few seconds


----------



## Onket (Dec 2, 2010)

I think all the points d-b makes here have already been dealt with on other threads, so there's no need for anyone to answer them on this thread.


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

ddraig said:


> sooo DB, the footage of horses being used didn't prove that it was lied about?
> even though it was only a few seconds


You see this bit:

"... and use it as "proof" of anything other than (usually) the physical acts pictured."

That is what that footage proved, just like any other short clip.  It _also_ had sufficient build up to the use of horses (a good thirty seconds or so), showing the crowd into which they moved, which demonstrated pretty clearly there was no immediate need for that sort of tactic to be used.  It also showed a few seconds of the reaction of the crowd after the horses had been used, which tended to confirm that.

It was, therefore, significantly more than six seconds of the actual act, with no lead up or background context and so it could be used as the basis on which to draw some pretty reliable conclusions (though even then there _would_ be the need to understand the wider situation and the reasoning for the tactic being used before it could be conclusively decided that it was an inappropriate use of the tactic).


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 2, 2010)

Go away.  Start another thread.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 2, 2010)

In fact I've done it for you:  http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/338873-Police-punching-people-in-the-face


----------



## peterkro (Dec 2, 2010)

You clearly don't understand subtle hints,so please just fuck off.


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

GuerillaPhoto said:


> my thoughts and images from the day which started out good, was ruined by some idiots then I got assaulted by a Police officer
> 
> http://guerillaphotography.tumblr.com/post/2060586104/dayx2-student-protests-london-30th-nov-2010
> 
> Nick


Excellent work.  

And an interesting (and for once apparently unbiased) explanation of the sequence of events which demonstrates that usually the police use of force was in response to something (relatively) excessive (graffittiing Nelson's Column, throwing fireworks at the police line, attacking Waterstones) and that unfortunately by the time the response came the actual baddies had disappeared and those on the receiving end of the police response were actually not those initially causing the problem.

This clearly illustrates the dilemma of the police - they know that not _all_ protestors are intent on violence / serious damage ... but they also know that _some_ are (certainly when they start performing).  Unfortunately, in a public disorder situation it is impossible to efficiently seperate troublemakers from the peaceful protestors who they use to hide amongst (effectively using them as human shields against police reaction - I have on a number of occasions dealt with situations where the principle agitator in a crowd was three or four people back from the front, urging the crowd towards the police line knowing that the force used to resist would inevitably be used against those _on_ the front line).  

In reality the police only have two options: (a) do nothing and allow the violence and damage to escalate (which would be both an abdication of their duty and unacceptable to the vast majority of the public) or (b) use tactics which inevitably result in some detriment (in terms of the use of force or restrain of freedo of movement) to non-violent protestors (or even non-protestors!).  Protestors need to engage with this dilemma and either accept it or suggest some (realistic) means of the police dealing with it differently.

(ETA:  Loving the response to kettling (which results in protestors being kept in the same place for a long time and not being allowed to wander off) being a sit down protest ... which, er .... )


----------



## TopCat (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> And your point is?
> 
> We seem to live in a world where protestors believe that any use of force by a police officer is somehow "proof" of wrongdoing.  Posting this sort of shit, in eleven and six second clips which show no context / lead up to the use of force, is just a waste of everyone's time and effort and, as with much other random whinging, serves only to undermine and cheapen allegations of police wrongdoing.
> 
> ...


 
Nah not at all. People see what they see and think the police are cunts. Like you.


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> Oh no you don't.  You're not ruining this thread as well.


Please note now that (a) I have posted on topic and with substantive contents in my posts; (b) I have NOT posted any substantive content-free posts (except this one) ... and nor do I as a matter of course and (c) it is not me making post after post after post slagging me off and, er, derailing the thread - that is YOU.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 2, 2010)

"they have to save some face so hitting anyone nearby is ok really and totally understandable"
with the copper thug mentality yes


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 2, 2010)

ddraig said:


> "they have to save some face so hitting anyone nearby is ok really and totally understandable"
> with the copper thug mentality yes


 


detective-boy said:


> Please note now that (a) I have posted on topic and with substantive contents in my posts; (b) I have NOT posted any substantive content-free posts (except this one) ... and nor do I as a matter of course and (c) it is not me making post after post after post slagging me off and, er, derailing the thread - that is YOU.


 
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/338873-Police-punching-people-in-the-face


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

ddraig said:


> "they have to save some face so hitting anyone nearby is ok really and totally understandable"


No ... but they have to resist a _crowd_ and so using force on the people in the crowd actually nearest to them is inevitable (unless you think they should start throwing bricks towards the back of the line, so applying force to those _actually_ starting the surge forward ...).


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> No ... but they have to resist a _crowd_ and so using force on the people in the crowd actually nearest to them is inevitable (unless you think they should start throwing bricks towards the back of the line, so applying force to those _actually_ starting the surge forward ...).


 
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/338873-Police-punching-people-in-the-face


----------



## moon23 (Dec 2, 2010)

BigTom said:


> and it's at the childrens' hopsital! "won't someone think of the children"  I wonder who thought that was a good idea..


 
This the dumbest thing i've heard in a while, why did he think this was a good tactic?


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

moon23 said:


> This the dumbest thing i've heard in a while, why did he think this was a good tactic?


Maybe it was actually true ...


----------



## revlon (Dec 2, 2010)

GuerillaPhoto said:


> my thoughts and images from the day which started out good, was ruined by some idiots then I got assaulted by a Police officer
> 
> http://guerillaphotography.tumblr.com/post/2060586104/dayx2-student-protests-london-30th-nov-2010
> 
> Nick


 






everything about that photo is glorious. "how d'you grow a tache like that""


----------



## moon23 (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> And your point is?
> 
> We seem to live in a world where protestors believe that any use of force by a police officer is somehow "proof" of wrongdoing.  Posting this sort of shit, in eleven and six second clips which show no context / lead up to the use of force, is just a waste of everyone's time and effort and, as with much other random whinging, serves only to undermine and cheapen allegations of police wrongdoing.
> 
> ...


 
I think this is quite a well balanced post, what I would like to see from FIT Watch is a more systematic approach as you suggest.  It’s also what you might expect to occur from the ‘legal observers’. I think though the urge to upload a clip straight away for kudos  from your mates is too strong for most people. I know that’s what I have done in the past at protest.  
There are some police that over-step the line and they should be held to book. Until the organised approach you suggest is undertaken and protestors make a successful prosecution against an offending officer , little is likely to ever change.


----------



## ymu (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> Maybe it was actually true ...


 
It was true.

But I'd hope the force wasn't so overstretched in Brum that they couldn't deal with a handful of peaceful protesters at the same time ...


----------



## moon23 (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> Maybe it was actually true ...



Oh it was  .... 

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2010/12/01/bomb-scare-seals-off-roads-in-stourbridge/


----------



## dennisr (Dec 2, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Nah not at all. People see what they see and think the police are cunts. Like you.


 
exactly


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2010)

Onket said:


> I think all the points d-b makes here have already been dealt with on other threads, so there's no need for anyone to answer them on this thread.


 
more to the point, there's no need for anyone to answer d-"throw some fucks into that"-b


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 2, 2010)




----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> And your point is?
> 
> We seem to live in a world where protestors believe that any use of force by a police officer is somehow "proof" of wrongdoing.  Posting this sort of shit, in eleven and six second clips which show no context / lead up to the use of force, is just a waste of everyone's time and effort and, as with much other random whinging, serves only to undermine and cheapen allegations of police wrongdoing.
> 
> ...



watch that video, look up on the wall, see the guy in the checkered shirt taking photos, thats me, I was there the police could have and should have just held their lines, instead of pushing forwards and charging with no intention but to cause harm to the people in front of them. There was no need for the charge apart from a show of strength and for them to let people closely examine their batons and fists.


----------



## GuerillaPhoto (Dec 2, 2010)




----------



## moon23 (Dec 2, 2010)

TopCat said:


> I _promise_ free drugs, booze, drum and bass, reggae and a wild time on the proceeds for all ACAB types.


 
I shall I await the PM invite with anticpation.


----------



## treelover (Dec 2, 2010)

> The occupation of the Michael Sadler building at Leeds University seemed an opportunity for opening up space and possibilities to a number of people, many of whom were the youth marked NEET (Not in Employment, Education or Training), those who would never have accessed Leeds University under the current Government or the last.
> However, a series of events ensured that those very people were again excluded, and more, as the SWP - and, to be fair, others unaffiliated afraid or unsure of the potential unravelling of systems of control - seized BACK the power from the outside and the dispossessed.
> The latest occupation of the Ziff building next door by about 40 individuals was seen as a threat to either the security of the the Michael Sadler building and, essentially, to the security of the Party Line. A vote to ensure 'autonomous action would not be tolerated' further excluded those who were left to resist the deathly pressure of the organised and wretched traditional left.
> Some personal accounts, questions and thoughts can be found on this website:
> ...



bad news, the working class youth shoved to one side....


----------



## dennisr (Dec 2, 2010)

treelover said:


> bad news, the working class youth shoved to one side....


 
"What is needed is an anti-Oedipal wake up call, a recognition of our everyday fascism and to turn the old world on its head."

The prolatariat speaks *irony smilie*


----------



## treelover (Dec 2, 2010)

don't shoot the messenger, the problem stands


----------



## dennisr (Dec 2, 2010)

treelover said:


> don't shoot the messenger, the problem stands


 
 - I wasn't taking aim. the problem only stands if you take a couple of hundred people in one place and one time and equate them to what is going on nationally though. i'd prefer to wait for more than a week before we start dismissing the entire thing


----------



## killer b (Dec 2, 2010)

come now - it's not like tl to take an isolated incident and blow it out of all proportion.

where _is_ the left's response to this, eh?


----------



## ymu (Dec 2, 2010)




----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

GuerillaPhoto said:


> watch that video, look up on the wall, see the guy in the checkered shirt taking photos, thats me, I was there the police could have and should have just held their lines, instead of pushing forwards and charging with no intention but to cause harm to the people in front of them. There was no need for the charge apart from a show of strength and for them to let people closely examine their batons and fists.


Were you aware of everything that was happening on the entire demo?  

Were you privy to the overall aim of the Gold Commander in terms of managing the demonstration?

Do you know how the tactic that you observed (pushing people back at that particular location) fitted with every other tactic being used elsewhere at the same time?

Unless you were it is _impossible_ to state that the police "could" have done this or "should" have done that.  Their intention most definitely would not have been simply to cause harm to the people in front of them.  And it would probably not have been a decision made locally (i.e. by the sergeant / inspector / Chief Inspector on the ground at that particular location) but one made centrally and which they were directed to do (quite possibly without having the rationale behind it explained, so if anyone asked them why they were pushing people back they really wouldn't be able to provide an answer).

People _must_ understand that when dealing with public disorder, whilst individual officers are individually accountable for their individual use of force against an individual protestor, they most certainly do not (and cannot) have the power to decide for themselves whether to conduct any particular tactic at any particular time, any more than an individual tank commander, missile unit operator or infantry soldier makes an individual decision when and how to launch an attack or conduct a retreat ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> Were you privy to the overall aim of the Gold Commander in terms of managing the demonstration?


as a rough guess (and i'm talking here about the sort of thing the gold commander would say in public) the aims were facilitating peaceful protest, keeping the peace, and the prevention and detection of crime.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> Were you aware of everything that was happening on the entire demo?
> 
> Were you privy to the overall aim of the Gold Commander in terms of managing the demonstration?
> 
> ...



Aaah the Nuremburg defence, well done. *Godwins self*


----------



## BigTom (Dec 2, 2010)

ymu said:


> It was true.
> 
> But I'd hope the force wasn't so overstretched in Brum that they couldn't deal with a handful of peaceful protesters at the same time ...



well, I've got to admit I'm surprised, I did assume it was a cock and bull story, but as ymu says if brum police are so overstretched they can't deal with 50 peaceful protestors and a bomb scare then something is seriously wrong with the police.  The suspect package turned out to be a legitimate delivery as well which is more than a bit


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

peterkro said:


> Aaah the Nuremburg defence, well done. *Godwins self*


Thank you for demonstrating that you have not got the faintest idea what the Nurumberg defence was ... 

(Or, alternatively, for demonstrating your breathtaking stupidity in believing that the following of orders can _never_ have any place in any sort of police or other State action ... )


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 2, 2010)

BigTom said:


> The suspect package turned out to be a legitimate delivery as well which is more than a bit


It's also the outcome in about 99.9999% of cases ...


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Dec 2, 2010)

_"The interminable meetings are based on a complicated consensus system involving wiggly hand-signals. At times it all descends into Pythonesque farce as the students discuss the exact legal status of chalking messages on the pavements - but there's a point to it all. "The process is meant to prevent leaders emerging," one student informs me. "It's important to make sure everyone's voice is equally heard."
These young people are sick of leaders, even leaders our own age. They won't be told what to do, but that sentiment is more of a honed manifesto than a collective teenage door-slamming strop. When the meeting is over and consensus reached, the collective slams back into action, planning an escalation in the protests leading up to the crucial vote on tuition fees later this month."_

From Laurie Penny in the NS. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2010/12/police-square-protesters-young

This is what I love about the students' movement - there is no established leader. In small autonomous groups they decide between them what's best for them, & have demonstrated that they can do it quickly & then act upon it.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 2, 2010)

I hope this is this will continue.


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Dec 2, 2010)

Just heard via Twitter that London Met Uni has just gone into occupation. Tweeting at WeareLONDONMET


----------



## peterkro (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> Thank you for demonstrating that you have not got the faintest idea what the Nurumberg defence was ...
> 
> (Or, alternatively, for demonstrating your breathtaking stupidity in believing that the following of orders can _never_ have any place in any sort of police or other State action ... )



No,thank you for clearing up any doubt I had about you being a fatuous twat who never had an idea in their head that didn't come from a handy dandy rule book,faux Gold Commander I fear figure predominately  in your wank fantasies.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 2, 2010)

Prince Rhyus said:


> Just heard via Twitter that London Met Uni has just gone into occupation. Tweeting at WeareLONDONMET


 
When I was there the only political movement was the Islamic Fundies.


----------



## BigTom (Dec 2, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> It's also the outcome in about 99.9999% of cases ...



whilst I suspect you are exaggerating,  it doesn't make it any less  that a legitimate delivery, presumably something that should have been signed for, got declared a suspect package - I'm not claiming it is the police who have had the  moment - the delivery company & the hospital are equally potentially liable for blame.  Without knowing what happened it is not possible to know where to direct the  to, but I don't think a legitimate delivery should be able to get into the position of being a suspect package really. someone has made a  worthy mistake I reckon.
of course I shouldn't comment without knowing all the facts, but I'm going to anyway, this is a discussion forum after all.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 2, 2010)

peterkro said:


> No,thank you for clearing up any doubt I had about you being a fatuous twat who never had an idea in their head that didn't come from a handy dandy rule book,faux Gold Commander I fear figure predominately  in your wank fantasies.



Bravo!


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 2, 2010)

BigTom said:


> whilst I suspect you are exaggerating,  it doesn't make it any less  that a legitimate delivery, presumably something that should have been signed for, got declared a suspect package - I'm not claiming it is the police who have had the  moment - the delivery company & the hospital are equally potentially liable for blame.  Without knowing what happened it is not possible to know where to direct the  to, but I don't think a legitimate delivery should be able to get into the position of being a suspect package really. someone has made a  worthy mistake I reckon.
> of course I shouldn't comment without knowing all the facts, but I'm going to anyway, this is a discussion forum after all.



Is that a record for the most facepalms in one post (that isn't a reply to Jazzz)?


----------



## killer b (Dec 2, 2010)

vbulletin allows one more. i'll wager someone's used it...


----------



## IC3D (Dec 2, 2010)

I think its safe to say that D-B has won over everyone on this thread now.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> ....they most certainly do not (and cannot) have the power to decide for themselves whether to conduct any particular tactic at any particular time, any more than an individual tank commander, missile unit operator or infantry soldier makes an individual decision when and how to launch an attack or conduct a retreat ...


Actually, if you had a clue what you're talking about, you'd know that soldiers are expected to exercise a degree of operational autonomy once the shit hits the fan, not sit around like fannies, waiting for the chess-players at HQ to direct them to the next square.

_Oy_ fucking _vey_!


----------



## smokedout (Dec 3, 2010)

Lib Dems forced to cancel London conference

http://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2010/11/protest-at-london-lib-dem-conference-in-camden-4-december/


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2010)

smokedout said:


> Lib Dems forced to cancel London conference
> 
> http://www.coalitionofresistance.org.uk/2010/11/protest-at-london-lib-dem-conference-in-camden-4-december/


 
It's moved... 

#Libdem regional conference at http://www.horticultural-halls.co.uk/venues/lawrence-hall/find-us/ #demo2010 #solidarity @UCLOccupation


----------



## Nice one (Dec 3, 2010)

*London Met's been occupied*

*London Metropolitan University is now occupied*
Students, who occupied building 9pm last night, would love people to go down, get involved and support the occupation. University staff and security seem on board, as yet no dialogue with management.

Desperately need banner making material, and people, so if you have time and stuff get down there.

London Met (North Campus),
Rocket-Student Office and corridor,
166-220 Holloway Road,
London N7 8DB
Tube: Holloway Road (piccadilly line) concrete/glass tower block left as you come out of the tube opposite side of the road.
Map

Occupiers desperately need:
banner material, speakers, organizers, food, refreshment, cigarettes, paints,
paper A4, A3, A5 WHATEVER. colour pencils. whatever u can get.
megaphones etc, solidarity. Get down any time


----------



## smokedout (Dec 3, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> It's moved...
> 
> #Libdem regional conference at http://www.horticultural-halls.co.uk/venues/lawrence-hall/find-us/ #demo2010 #solidarity @UCLOccupation



not anymore 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20101203/tuk-lib-dems-axe-summit-over-fees-demo-6323e80.html


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 3, 2010)

smokedout said:


> not anymore
> 
> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20101203/tuk-lib-dems-axe-summit-over-fees-demo-6323e80.html


----------



## creak (Dec 3, 2010)

Nick Herbert said:
			
		

> People should always feel that they can [make] their point in a peaceful manner, and I want to facilitate peaceful protest. But I think that anybody would sensibly, having seen what happened in the first march, ... be aware that there are individuals who are seeking to exploit these demonstrations for their own ends, who are willing to resort to violence and criminal damage.
> 
> And therefore anybody joining one of these demonstrations must take care, and must go on them knowing that there are people who have now, on successive weeks, demonstrated that they attempting to take the law into their hands in this way.
> 
> ...



http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/03/police-minister-students-protests

Implications being obvious. What a cunt.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 3, 2010)

they tried that with the school kids last week, pretty pathetic and transparent really


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2010)

creak said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/03/police-minister-students-protests
> 
> Implications being obvious. What a cunt.


 
the thing is that the more the police behave as they have the past couple of weeks the more people are going to be up for a ruck. there's been a fuck of a lot of learning done by students and schoolkids, to the extent that they put a lot of more experienced demonstrators to shame. the last demonstration saw thousands of people run the police pretty ragged, and several hundred people pay the price for the police humiliation. the inventiveness of the students should concern the police, because if they keep fucking the students about they'll get (in my view) a damn good hiding. the peaceful nature of the students, until they've been provoked beyond reasonable endurance, won't last forever. and they're just the first of a long line of people to show their anger on the streets. with things happening at town halls, with things happening throughout the rest of society, the police should know that people are watching and learning, and for every person going 'get the water cannon out' on the internet there's a score who're waiting for the chance to get out on the streets, whether peacefully or otherwise. 

if the police want to maintain public order, they'd be well advised to step back, think and think again before kettling and twatting students. but they won't, because they don't have the nous to realise that what happens in central london next week will be happening in towns and cities across the country next year. we already know that there are cop concerns about their ability to cope with the olympics. but the games will be a fucking walk in the park compared with what the police are raising now, where they've shown their inability to control several thousand determined students without attacking peaceful demonstrators. the metropolitan police together with their city police lackeys will probably go all out next week to cow the students and their supporters. however, when it kicks off, due to police fuckwittery, i can't see it ending any other way than the new assistant commissioner in charge of public order, bob broadhurst and the rest of the met's public order hierarchy looking like stupid wankers. 

if there's scenes of schoolkids with blood running down their faces on the news next week, as i strongly suspect there will be, the cops keeping an eye on schoolkids going home in places like the angel and archway won't be going home unscathed in the coming weeks.


----------



## where to (Dec 3, 2010)

message to Nick Herbert:

I think that anybody would sensibly, having seen what happened in the first seven months, ... be aware that there are individuals who are seeking to exploit this government for their own ends, who are willing to resort to violence and criminal damage.

And therefore anybody joining this government must take care, and must join knowing that there are people who have now, on successive months, demonstrated that they attempting to take the law into their hands in this way.

...

If you know, having seen the scenes so far, that there is a group of people who are bent on violence, on causing criminal damage, on intimidation, on breaking the law, any of us would think twice, wouldn't we, about whether we wish to be associated with those people.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 3, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> the thing is that the more the police behave as they have the past couple of weeks the more people are going to be up for a ruck. there's been a fuck of a lot of learning done by students and schoolkids, to the extent that they put a lot of more experienced demonstrators to shame. the last demonstration saw thousands of people run the police pretty ragged, and several hundred people pay the price for the police humiliation. the inventiveness of the students should concern the police, because if they keep fucking the students about they'll get (in my view) a damn good hiding. the peaceful nature of the students, until they've been provoked beyond reasonable endurance, won't last forever. and they're just the first of a long line of people to show their anger on the streets. with things happening at town halls, with things happening throughout the rest of society, the police should know that people are watching and learning, and for every person going 'get the water cannon out' on the internet there's a score who're waiting for the chance to get out on the streets, whether peacefully or otherwise.
> 
> if the police want to maintain public order, they'd be well advised to step back, think and think again before kettling and twatting students. but they won't, because they don't have the nous to realise that what happens in central london next week will be happening in towns and cities across the country next year. we already know that there are cop concerns about their ability to cope with the olympics. but the games will be a fucking walk in the park compared with what the police are raising now, where they've shown their inability to control several thousand determined students without attacking peaceful demonstrators. the metropolitan police together with their city police lackeys will probably go all out next week to cow the students and their supporters. however, when it kicks off, due to police fuckwittery, i can't see it ending any other way than the new assistant commissioner in charge of public order, bob broadhurst and the rest of the met's public order hierarchy looking like stupid wankers.


IMO the issue with the police is that, just as they've done for the last 30 or so years, the brass strategise for public order problems, but in doing they don't leave the sort of room necessary for fluid tactics.
It's no good trying to engage set-piece deployments of "the opposition" is wise to you. Fortunately for us, the OB *still* haven't worked this out, and expect protesters to all carry on doing the same pointless point A to point B marches. Also fortunately, it'll take them time and money to adjust their deployment methods to get a handle on the current protests, by which time the protesters may have moved on to other, equally fluid, methods of protest.


> if there's scenes of schoolkids with blood running down their faces on the news next week, as i strongly suspect there will be, the cops keeping an eye on schoolkids going home in places like the angel and archway won't be going home unscathed in the coming weeks.


I agree that it's strongly likely, both that school-kids will get bashed, and that coppers will get attacked in revenge. I don't want to see kids hurt, but I'm not at all confident that the police will be able to make themselves tone down the ferocity of any attack on protesters to take account of their youthfulness, or that they'll particularly care.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 3, 2010)

RIOT!!!!!!!


----------



## smokedout (Dec 4, 2010)

some kid on facebook told me all her mates were padding up and buying hard hats


----------



## OneStrike (Dec 4, 2010)

Porter appears to have gone AWOL again, any tips to those occupying about how they can work around the lack of a 
'leader'?  i'm sure they can work around it but any help would go down well i'm sure.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2010)

Has he been a "leader" so far?


----------



## OneStrike (Dec 4, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Has he been a "leader" so far?



No, absolutely not, but he is a figurehead to various media.  Some of the occupations are frustrated that news sources ask for his contact details e.t.c. before entering proper discussion, as if it is all under his umbrella.  Porter strikes me as a twat btw.


----------



## shaman75 (Dec 4, 2010)




----------



## detective-boy (Dec 4, 2010)

BigTom said:


> whilst I suspect you are exaggerating ...


Really?  So what are you saying?  That there aren't dozens (hundreds when threat levels rise) of suspect package type calls around the UK every day?  Or that lots of them turn out to be genuine IEDs but somehow the police keep it secret?  



> ... It doesn't make it any less  that a legitimate delivery, presumably something that should have been signed for, got declared a suspect package ...


If only every one was as perfect as you ...


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 4, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Actually, if you had a clue what you're talking about, you'd know that soldiers are expected to exercise a degree of operational autonomy once the shit hits the fan, not sit around like fannies, waiting for the chess-players at HQ to direct them to the next square.


Of course they are ... a couple of riflemen open up new fronts all the time ...

You know perfectly well what I am talking about and you know perfectly well that it is accurate ... but you just _can't_ bring yourself to agree with me ever, about anything ...


----------



## BigTom (Dec 4, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> Really?  So what are you saying?  That there aren't dozens (hundreds when threat levels rise) of suspect package type calls around the UK every day?  Or that lots of them turn out to be genuine IEDs but somehow the police keep it secret?
> 
> 
> If only every one was as perfect as you ...



what I'm saying is that I doubt that 99.999% (or whatever exactly you said) are _legitimate deliveries_ - I suspect that people leaving bags (or bikes) somewhere account for a fair amount of suspect packages.  I'm not saying that lots of them turn out to be genuine IED's. perhaps I misread what you said, I thought you were saying virtually all suspect packages are legitimate deliveries.

Just because it's understandable that people aren't perfect, and mistakes will be made, doesn't mean those mistakes aren't stupid.  It is stupid to for a legitimate delivery to get into the position of being a suspect package.


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 4, 2010)

BigTom said:


> perhaps I misread what you said, I thought you were saying virtually all suspect packages are legitimate deliveries.


I think I probably generalised something that you were meaning very specifically ... I meant 99.999% turned out to be legitimate items (i.e. some innocent explanation), not that they all turned out to be legitimate _deliveries_!  Deliveries from mainstream logistics firms are rarely a problem as they come adorned with multiple stickers ... but individual deliveries from non-logistics companies (i.e. delivered by hand or just sent through the post) tend to be wrapped up in brown paper and string (well, Jiffybags and bubblewrap!) and regularly give no external indication of who or where they are from!


----------



## free spirit (Dec 4, 2010)

This generation of Newcastle students have just made me go all warm and fuzzy inside in a proud kinda way. According to this video, last week they not only protested against the fees increase, but at the same time linked it into the protests against tax avoidance and bank bailouts by staging sit ins at brnahces of Lloyds bank, HSBC, Vodaphone and topshop, and it looks like there were hundreds out protesting as well.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 4, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Has he been a "leader" so far?


 
He's been quite amazing, has Porter.

Seldom before have I seen such slithering and sliding in an attempt to be all things to all people: leader, law-abider, protester, supporter of the _status quo_, and all done ineptly.
He makes those who've been NUS president before him look like paragons of political _nous_ by comparison, even though most of his predecessors were actually shitcunts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 4, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> Of course they are ... a couple of riflemen open up new fronts all the time ...


How else do you think that new fronts emerge in the heat of battle?
All the strategising in the world can't take account of how fluid a battle is, even back in the times of set-piece battles.


> You know perfectly well what I am talking about and you know perfectly well that it is accurate ... but you just _can't_ bring yourself to agree with me ever, about anything ...


No, on the contrary, I know that you're wrong. Not because I can't bring myself to agree with you (how fucking egotistical of you is *that*? There have been a number of instances where I've agreed with you), but because I (like Bishie and several other posters on this thread), have been an infantryman, and know that, outwith direct orders (which is as likely to happen to police in the middle of a "situation" as it is to soldiers in battle), you're expected to exercise autonomy in helping fulfill primary and secondary objectives.  All the eye-rolling and brow-beating in the world doesn't change the fact that you're incorrect.


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 4, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> ... you're expected to exercise autonomy in helping fulfill primary and secondary objectives.


But NOT in _setting_ new primary and secondary objectives ... which is what we were talking about (go back to post #640 and see where the original point came from) ... 

As usual you don't deal with the issue being discussed (where you may be forced to agree) but wander off on some tangent from where you can have a pop ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 5, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Seldom before have I seen such slithering and sliding in an attempt to be all things to all people: leader, law-abider, protester, supporter of the _status quo_, and all done ineptly.


 
He's proved himself ideal for a cabinet position - NUS President Mission Accomplished.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> But NOT in _setting_ new primary and secondary objectives ... which is what we were talking about (go back to post #640 and see where the original point came from) ...


You said:
"...they most certainly do not (and cannot) have the power to decide for themselves whether to conduct any particular tactic at any particular time, any more than an individual tank commander, missile unit operator or infantry soldier"
You're not talking about setting objectives, you're very obviously talking about a police officer not being allowed to exercise operational tactical autonomy. Soldiers are expected to (under the conditions I previously stated)


> As usual you don't deal with the issue being discussed (where you may be forced to agree) but wander off on some tangent from where you can have a pop ...


You think you're worth having a pop at?
The reason I reply to your posts is because I don't think you should go unchallenged on the hectoring bullying bullshit you pull, your whining about being victimised if someone *dares* to gainsay you in terms you dislike, and the inaccurate crap you post about stuff outside of your field of expertise (and I acknowledge you *do* have such a field).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He's proved himself ideal for a cabinet position - NUS President Mission Accomplished.


 
Not quite. He's fucked it all up so badly, and so transparently, that the last few weeks will probably haunt him for the rest of his life. You'd have to have even more of a brass neck that Lord Archole to have a successful political career after that.


----------



## where to (Dec 5, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Not quite. He's fucked it all up so badly, and so transparently, that the last few weeks will probably haunt him for the rest of his life. You'd have to have even more of a brass neck that Lord Archole to have a successful political career after that.


 
and in doing so may have changed the role of NUS Pres for a generation.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2010)

where to said:


> and in doing so may have changed the role of NUS Pres for a generation.


 
Which can only be a good thing, in my opinion. Given what utter scumbags the role has given us in previous generations.


----------



## detective-boy (Dec 5, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> You said:
> "...they most certainly do not (and cannot) have the power to decide for themselves whether to conduct any particular tactic at any particular time, any more than an individual tank commander, missile unit operator or infantry soldier"


As usual you take a single line out of context ... no change there then ... 

The whole point of my post was in response to a poster who said the police were doing a particular thing for no apparent reason.  I was pointing out that unless you knew how what they were doing (holding a particular position) fitted with everything else being done elsewhere it was impossible to know whether there was a good reason or not.  And that the individual officers wouldn't have decided unilaterally to hold that particular position and couldn't unilaterally decide to stop doing so.

As you well know is correct.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2010)

detective-boy said:


> As usual you take a single line out of context ... no change there then ...


This, good people, is what is commonly known as "projection".


> The whole point of my post was in response to a poster who said the police were doing a particular thing for no apparent reason.  I was pointing out that unless you knew how what they were doing (holding a particular position) fitted with everything else being done elsewhere it was impossible to know whether there was a good reason or not.  And that the individual officers wouldn't have decided unilaterally to hold that particular position and couldn't unilaterally decide to stop doing so.
> 
> As you well know is correct.


What was it you were whining about "self justificationary [sic] waffle" the other day?


----------



## where to (Dec 5, 2010)

ViolentPanda said:


> Which can only be a good thing, in my opinion. Given what utter scumbags the role has given us in previous generations.


 
yup.  they're going to have to keep touch with campaigning students or risk finding themselves in no mans land struggling to find a safe place to call home ala Porter.  that or be overt tories, which will leave a massive space for campaigning students to occupy (which careerists only compete over at elections).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 5, 2010)

where to said:


> yup.  they're going to have to keep touch with campaigning students or risk finding themselves in no mans land struggling to find a safe place to call home ala Porter.


Back when I was first a (mature) student in the 80s, the NUS, while there was still a problem with careerism at the top, was a lot more committed to social action in general. When I did my second bachelors and my masters in the late 90s/early00s, the NUS was a hollow imitation of what I remembered, and I didn't bother (re)joining. It felt like almost everyone who participated in the hierarchy was out for what they could get, rather than for furthering the causes of students.
IMO Porter's woes are all of his own making. He chose to follow the "slavish devotion to new Labour and neo-liberalism" path of his recent predecessors, and now he's paying for it. The future isn't bright for you, Aaron. The future is with your members, as it should be.


> that or be overt tories...


And, to be fair, I can't even see the likes of Porter swallowing that particular bitter pill, however much he loves power.


> ...which will leave a massive space for campaigning students to occupy (which careerists only compete over at elections).


All the better. Perhaps the NUS as a union can light a beacon for other unions to move away from the rampant middle-of-the-roadism and careerism that's been the norm in union hierarchies (with a handful of honourable exceptions) for the last 20 years.


----------

